Podcasts about asians

To celebrate this week's release of a NEW Taylor Swift album, Lia and Megan indulged their Swiftie, Amy, in a fun little exercise. The game? Assigning TS song titles--one from each album--to the K-Drama we think it embodies. That's it! Mouse crypt and true crime stories are just the icing on the cake. We hope you'll play along!Spotify Playlist for this Episode"I Did Something Bad" from Reputation TourReady to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

The Asian Friends enjoy some rom-com weather. Jenny has a nice trip. Mic is a nano-influencer for a night.THE FAREWELL TOUR KICKOFFhttps://www.eventbrite.com/e/asian-not-asian-live-the-farewell-tour-kick-off-tickets-1656778251349F O L L O W U Shttps://www.instagram.com/asiannotasianpodhttps://www.instagram.com/nicepantsbrohttps://www.instagram.com/jennyarimoto/P A T R E O Nhttps://www.patreon.com/asiannotasianpod P A R T N E R S -Check out friend of the pod John's cabin on Airbnb! https://www.airbnb.com/slink/penXRFgl - Helix Sleep Mattress: visit helixsleep.com/asian - Nutrafol: www.nutrafol.com (Promo code: Asian) This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/ASIAN and get on your way to being your best self.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Here's what to expect on the podcast:The internal and external challenges Asian Americans often faceWhat the bamboo ceiling is—and how you can break through itHow therapy and coaching can uncover and shift deep-seated beliefs and self-sabotaging behaviorsThe seven patterns that most commonly show up in people's livesWhy belonging, community, and learning to accept help are essential for growthAnd so much more! About John:John Wang is the host of the Big Asian Energy Show, a motivational speaker, and a leadership coach, helping Asian professionals break through hidden barriers and unlock their potential.After discovering that many successful Asians were being overlooked for leadership roles not because of lack of capability, but because of cultural miscommunication and workplace stereotyping, he started doing research that uncovered why most advice like “just speak up more” often fails Asian American employees.John has been featured on WSJ, CNBC, TEDx, Audible, Amazon, and has clients from Fortune 50 companies like Google, Meta, and Goldman Sachs, blending cultural insight and science-backed strategies to build confidence and visibility. His content on assertiveness and imposter syndrome has reached over 250,000 followers and over 25 million views.John's mission is to inspire a new generation to lead with confidence. His book Big Asian Energy, launched May 2025 (Tiny Reparations/Penguin Randomhouse Publishing), offers even more tools to step into your full power. Connect with John Wang!Website: https://www.bigasianenergy.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnwangofficial/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@johnwangbaeLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-wang-b79ba396/?originalSubdomain=caCheck out John's book, Big Asian Energy: An Unapologetic Guide for Breaking Barriers to Leadership and Success, on Amazon! https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0DFG2YW9P?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TDEE1XBSGBJJEJKV8D5T&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TDEE1XBSGBJJEJKV8D5T&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_TDEE1XBSGBJJEJKV8D5T&bestFormat=truePodcast (Spotify): https://open.spotify.com/show/5M7T0HbKqNpJNuFRt3DUEH----- If you're struggling, consider therapy with our sponsor, BetterHelp.Visit https://betterhelp.com/candicesnyder for a 10% discount on your first month of therapy.*This is a paid promotionIf you are in the United States and in crisis, or any other person may be in danger -Suicide & Crisis Lifeline Dial 988----- Connect with Candice Snyder!Website: https://www.podpage.com/passion-purpose-and-possibilities-1/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/candicebsnyder?_rdrPassion, Purpose, and Possibilities Community Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/passionpurposeandpossibilitiescommunity/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/passionpurposepossibilities/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/candicesnyder/Shop For A Cause With Gifts That Give Back to Nonprofits: https://thekindnesscause.com/Fall In Love With Artists And Experience Joy And Calm: https://www.youtube.com/@movenartrelaxationClick this link to receive your FREE TRIAL to The Greenhouse Communityhttps://www.thegreenhousecommunity.com/checkout/the-greenhouse-membership?affiliate_code=11e889

In this episode, we discuss some challenges ARMY faces: How do we verify information before sharing? What are our responsibilities when it comes to rumors and mistranslations? We explore the balance between fan enthusiasm and respecting artist boundaries, and tackle uncomfortable questions about shipping and solo stanning.Afternoona Army is on PATREON!Join The BTS Buzz and get access to Afternoona Army's exclusive DISCORD channel, get shout outs on-air in podcast, and receive invitations to quarterly live support groups. Questions? Email afternoonaarmy@gmail.com for more information.Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Check out our sister pod www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest members of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Want to find more great BTS content? Head over to Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life and links to our social media.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – September 25, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

What does it mean to be “cute”? Beauty standards and perceptions of attractiveness vary across cultures, but one thing is clear: being called “cute” is something entirely different. Is there a scientific explanation of why our brains perceive some people as “cute” and others as “beautiful,” “hot,” and so on? We're about to answer all of them with the help of science! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, we discuss a hotly debated topic in both romance novels and Kdramas: The Third Act Breakup. We get into what we love about it, what we don't, when we think it's done right, and when it makes us rage. We are eager to here your thoughts!Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

There are shit bags in every nation, race, continent, neighborhood..........   They come in every shape, size, and form.    I know a lot of good Asians, Blacks, Mexicans, Africans.......Europeans.....   I know the good and bad in every sector represented in the human race.    They're everywhere.    One thing I can tell you is, you can't group everyone into one category just because one of them has made mistakes or became a bad example for their people.    We can't lump people together in anything.    Operating with absolutes.    It cripples us as a whole.    What I can tell you is, we do have a responsibility to call people out of every race, creed, color, etc.    As the human race, we have to make clear the directions of what's acceptable and not acceptable in society.    So, the next time you hear someone of a certain race, color or creed did something fucked up, just know there's a counter balance in existence.    One person does not have the power or authority to represent one whole population or segment of people.    Keep it light and do right, no matter the shades of good and bad.    About the ReWire Podcast The ReWire Podcast with Ryan Stewman – Dive into powerful insights as Ryan Stewman, the HardCore Closer, breaks down mental barriers and shares actionable steps to rewire your thoughts. Each episode is a fast-paced journey designed to reshape your mindset, align your actions, and guide you toward becoming the best version of yourself. Join in for a daily dose of real talk that empowers you to embrace change and unlock your full potential.    Learn how you can become a member of a powerful community consistently rewiring itself for success at https://www.jointheapex.com/   Rise Above

whether you're from the east, the south, or the mid-west of the US, WE SEE YOU! jen, emily & madelyn dive into their backgrounds hailing from the tri-state area, texas, and the midwest, & how their journeys ultimately led them to the west coast where they reside today. 0:00 welcome to hot pursuit 1:55 jen's history with ABG  3:56 jen, em & madelyns coming together as nextgen 5:43 friendship dynamic between jen, em & madelyn 8:54 origins of the name “hot pursuit” 13:02 growing up in 3 different regions: tri-state, the south, the midwest 27:43 moving to the west coast & meeting california asians 32:31 why asian representation matters in media 35:17 how your proximity to asian communities shapes your views 38:30 moving to the west coast is a healing experience CONNECT WITH US Connect with us @thehotpursuitpod on Instagram/TikTok/Youtube.  Email us at hello@thehotpursuitpod.com.  THE HOT PURSUIT PODCAST Hosted and written by: Jennifer Han, Emily Lin, and Madelyn Ong Produced by: Hot Pursuit Media and AsianBossGirl Edited by: Josh Jang and ⁠AsianBossGirl Theme song: Shawn Halim Graphic art: Kelsey Cordutsky ig: @kcord0912 Motion graphics: Matt Ebling ig: @matt_ebling Special thanks: Travis Morningstar, Melody Cheng, Helen Wu Wang, Janet Wang, Josh Jang  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Last time we spoke about the battle of Nanjing. In December 1937, as the battle for Nanjing unfolded, terror inundated its residents, seeking safety amid the turmoil. General Tang Shengzhi rallied the Chinese forces, determined to defend against the advancing Japanese army. Fierce fighting erupted at the Gate of Enlightenment, where the determined Chinese soldiers resisted merciless assaults while tragedy loomed. By mid-December, the Japanese made substantial advances, employing relentless artillery fire to breach Nanjing's defenses. Leaders called for strategic retreats, yet amid chaos and despair, many young Chinese soldiers, driven by nationalism, continued to resist. By December 13, Nanjing succumbed to the invaders, marking a tragic chapter in history. As destruction enveloped the city, the resilience of its defenders became a poignant tale of courage amidst the horrors of war, forever marking Nanjing as a symbol of enduring hope in the face of despair.   #168 The Nanjing Massacre Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. So obvious disclaimer, today we will be talking about, arguably one of if not the most horrific war atrocities ever committed. To be blunt, it may have been worse than some of the things we talked about back during the fall of the Ming Dynasty, when bandit armies raped and pillaged cities. The Nanjing Massacre as its become known is well documented by both Chinese and foreign sources. There is an abundance of primary sources, many well verified. Its going to be extremely graphic, I am going to try and tell it to the fullest. So if you got a weak stomach perhaps sit this one out, you have been warned. Chen Yiding began evacuating his troops from the area surrounding the Gate of Enlightenment before dawn on December 13. En route to Xiaguan, he took the time to visit a dozen of his soldiers housed in a makeshift hospital located in an old cemetery. These men were too severely injured to participate in the evacuation, and Chen had to leave them with only a few words of encouragement. Little did he know, within days, they would all perish in their beds, victims of the Japanese forces. Upon arriving in Xiaguan later that morning, Chen was met with grim news: his divisional commander had crossed the Yangtze River with his chief of staff the previous afternoon. Now, he was on his own. He didn't linger near the riverside chaos, quickly realizing there was nothing he could do there. Instead, he chose to move downstream, hoping to find a secure spot for himself and his soldiers to wait out the next few days before devising an escape from the war zone.  He was fortunate, for soon the Japanese would live up to their notorious reputation developed during their advance from Shanghai; they were not inclined to take prisoners. That afternoon, several hundred Chinese soldiers arrived at the northern end of the Safety Zone. The committee responsible for the area stated that they could offer no assistance. In a misguided attempt to boost morale, they suggested that if the soldiers surrendered and promised not to engage in combat, the Japanese would likely show them "merciful treatment." This optimism was woefully misplaced. Later that same day, Japanese troops entered the zone, dragging out 200 Chinese men, the majority of them soldiers, for execution just outside the city. On December 13, Japanese soldiers started patrolling the riverbank, shooting at anything and anyone floating downstream. Their comrades aboard naval vessels in the river cheered them on, applauding each time they struck another helpless victim in the water. Civilians were not spared either. While traveling through downtown Nanjing as the battle concluded, Rabe observed dead men and women every 100 to 200 yards, most of them shot in the back. A long line of Chinese men marched down the street, numbering in the hundreds, all destined for death. In a cruel twist, they were compelled to carry a large Japanese flag. They were herded into a vacant lot by a couple of Japanese soldiers and as recalled by American correspondent Archibald Steele "There, they were brutally shot dead in small groups. One Japanese soldier stood over the growing pile of corpses, firing into any bodies that showed movement." The killings commenced almost immediately after the fall of Nanjing. The victorious Japanese spread out into the city streets, seeking victims. Those unfortunate enough to be captured faced instant execution or were taken to larger killing fields to meet a grim fate alongside other Chinese prisoners. Initially, the Japanese targeted former soldiers, whether real or imagined, but within hours, the scope of victims expanded to include individuals of all age groups and genders. By the end of the first day of occupation, civilian bodies littered the streets of downtown Nanjing at a rate of roughly one per block. The defenseless and innocent were subjected to murder, torture, and humiliation in a relentless spree of violence that persisted for six harrowing weeks. At the time of the attack, Nanjing felt eerily abandoned, houses stood boarded up, vehicles lay toppled in the streets, and the once-ubiquitous rickshaws had vanished. However, hundreds of thousands remained hidden indoors, seeking refuge. The most visible sign of the city's new rulers was the display of the Japanese flag. On the morning of December 14, the Rising Sun flag was hoisted across the city, seen in front of private homes, businesses, and public buildings. Many of these flags were hastily made, often a simple white sheet with a red rag affixed, hoping to be spared. As the days progressed, horrifying accounts of violence began to emerge. A barber, the sole survivor among eight people in his shop when the Japanese arrived, was admitted to a hospital with a stab wound that had nearly severed his head from his body, damaging all muscles at the back of his neck down to his spinal canal. A woman suffered a brutal throat wound, while another pregnant woman was bayoneted in the abdomen, resulting in the death of her unborn child. A man witnessed his wife being stabbed through the heart and then saw his child hurled from a window to the street several floors below. These are but a few stories of individual atrocities committed. Alongside this there were mass executions, predominantly targeting young able-bodied men, in an effort to weaken Nanjing and deprive it of any potential resistance in the future. American professor, Lewis Smythe recalled “The disarmed soldier problem was our most serious one for the first three days, but it was soon resolved, as the Japanese shot all of them.” On the evening of December 15, the Japanese rounded up 1,300 former soldiers from the Safety Zone, binding them in groups of about 100 and marching them away in silence. A group of foreigners, permitted to leave Nanjing on a Japanese gunboat, accidentally became witnesses to the ensuing slaughter. While waiting for their vessel, they took a brief walk along the riverbank and stumbled upon a scene of mass execution, observing the Japanese shooting the men one by one in the back of the neck. “We observed about 100 such executions until the Japanese officer in charge noticed us and ordered us to leave immediately”. Not all killings were premeditated; many occurred impulsively. A common example was when Japanese soldiers led lines of Chinese POWs to holding points, tightly bound together with ropes. Every few yards, a Japanese soldier would stand guard with a fixed bayonet aimed at the prisoners as they trudged forward. Suddenly, one of the prisoners slipped, causing a domino effect as he fell, dragging down the men in front of and behind him. The entire group soon found themselves collapsed on the ground, struggling to stand. The Japanese guards lost their patience, jabbing their bayonets into the writhing bodies until none remained alive. In one of the largest massacres, Japanese troops from the Yamada Detachment, including the 65th Infantry Regiment, systematically executed between 17,000 and 20,000 Chinese prisoners from December 15 to 17. These prisoners were taken to the banks of the Yangtze River near Mufushan, where they were machine-gunned to death. The bodies were then disposed of by either burning or flushing them downstream. Recent research by Ono Kenji has revealed that these mass killings were premeditated and carried out systematically, in accordance with orders issued directly by Prince Asaka. A soldier from the IJA's 13th Division described killing wounded survivors of the Mufushan massacre in his diary “I figured that I'd never get another chance like this, so I stabbed thirty of the damned Chinks. Climbing atop the mountain of corpses, I felt like a real devil-slayer, stabbing again and again, with all my might. 'Ugh, ugh,' the Chinks groaned. There were old folks as well as kids, but we killed them lock, stock, and barrel. I also borrowed a buddy's sword and tried to decapitate some. I've never experienced anything so unusual”. Frequently, the Japanese just left their victims wherever they fell. Corpses began to accumulate in the streets, exposed to the elements and onlookers. Cars constantly were forced to run over corpses. Corpses were scavenged by stray dogs, which, in turn, were consumed by starving people. The water became toxic; workers in the Safety Zone discovered ponds clogged with human remains. In other instances, the Japanese gathered their machine-gunned or bayoneted victims into large heaps, doused them in kerosene, and set them ablaze. Archibald Steele wrote for the Chicago Daily News on December 17th “I saw a grisly scene at the north gate, where what was once a group of 200 men had become a smoldering mass of flesh and bones, so severely burned around the neck and head that it was difficult to believe he was still human.” During the chaos in the beginning, whereupon the Japanese had not yet fully conquered the city, its defenders scrambled desperately to escape before it was too late. Individually or in small groups, they sought vulnerabilities in the enemy lines, acutely aware that their survival hinged on their success. Months of conflict had trained them to expect no mercy if captured; previous experiences had instilled in them the belief that a swift death at the hands of the Japanese would be a fortunate outcome. On December 12, amid intense artillery fire and aerial bombardment, General Tang Sheng-chi issued the order for his troops to retreat. However, conflicting directives and a breakdown in discipline transformed the ensuing events into a disaster. While some Chinese units successfully crossed the river, a far greater number were ensnared in the widespread chaos that engulfed the city. In their desperation to evade capture, some Chinese soldiers resorted to stripping civilians of their clothing to disguise themselves, while many others were shot by their own supervisory units as they attempted to flee.Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of individual escape stories emerged from this period. In some rare instances, entire units, even up to divisional strength, successfully infiltrated Japanese lines to reach safety. For others, such as the 156th Division, there were detailed plans outlining escape routes from Nanjing. Several soldiers and officers adhered to this three-day trek, skillfully evading Japanese patrols until they reached Ningguo, located south of the capital. Nonetheless, these cases were exceptions. The vast majority of soldiers from China's defeated army faced significant risk and were more likely to be captured than to escape. Some of Chiang Kai-shek's most elite units suffered near total annihilation. Only about a thousand soldiers from the 88th Division managed to cross the Yangtze safely, as did another thousand from the Training Division, while a mere 300 from the 87th Division survived. Even for units like the 156th Division, the escape plans were only effective for those who learned of them. These plans were hurriedly disseminated through the ranks as defeat loomed, leaving mere chance to determine who received the information. Many stayed trapped in Nanjing, which had become a fatal snare. One day, Japanese soldiers visited schools within Nanjing's Safety Zone, aware that these locations sheltered many refugees. They called for all former soldiers to step forward, promising safety in exchange for labor. Many believed that the long days of hiding were finally coming to an end and complied with the request. However, they were led to an abandoned house, where they were stripped naked and bound together in groups of five. Outside, a large bonfire had been ignited. They were then bayoneted and, while still alive, thrown onto the flames. Only a few managed to escape and share the horrifying tale. The Japanese were of course well aware that numerous soldiers were hiding in Nanjing, disguised as locals, evidenced by the piles of military uniforms and equipment accumulating in the streets. Consequently, they initiated a systematic search for soldiers within hours of taking control. The Safety Zone was not spared, as the Japanese Army suspected that Chinese soldiers had sought refuge there. On December 16, they raided Ginling College, despite a policy prohibiting the admission of men, except for elderly residents in a designated dining room. The soldiers brought axes to force open doors that were not immediately complied with and positioned six machine guns on the campus, prepared to fire at anyone attempting to escape. Ultimately, they found nothing. In cases where they did encounter young men of military age, the soldiers lined them up, scrutinizing for distinct telltale features such as close-cropped hair, helmet marks, or shoulder blisters from carrying a rifle. Many men, who had never served in the military but bore callouses from hard manual labor, were captured based on the assumption that such marks indicated military experience. As noted by Goerge Fitch the head of Nanjing's YMCA “Rickshaw coolies, carpenters, and other laborers are frequently taken”. The Japanese employed additional, more cunning tactics to root out soldiers. During an inspection of a camp within the Safety Zone, they struggled to get the approximately 6,000 men and women to surrender. Before leaving, they resorted to one last trick. “Attention!” a voice commanded in flawless Chinese. Many young men, conditioned by months or years of military training, instinctively responded. Even though most realized their mistake almost immediately, it was too late; the Japanese herded them away. Given the scale of the slaughter, efforts were soon organized to facilitate the killing and disposal of as many individuals as possible in the shortest time. Rows of prisoners were mowed down by machine-gun fire, while those injured were finished off with single bullets or bayonets. Much of the mass murder occurred near the Yangtze River, where victims could be disposed of easily by being pushed into the water, hoping the current would carry them away.As the weeks progressed and the Japanese grew increasingly concerned about the possibility of former soldiers still at large, the dragnet tightened. Beginning in late December, Japanese authorities implemented a registration system for all residents of Nanjing. At Ginling College, this process lasted about a week and resulted in scenes of almost indescribable chaos, as the Japanese also decided to register residents from the surrounding areas on campus. First, the men were registered, followed by the women. Often, women attended the registration to help save their husbands and sons, who would otherwise have been taken as suspected former soldiers. Despite these efforts, a total of 28 men were ultimately seized during the registration process at Ginling College. Each individual who registered received a document from the authorities. However, it soon became clear that this paper provided little protection against the caprices of the Japanese military. That winter in Nanjing, everyone was a potential victim. While systematic mass killings primarily targeted young men of military age, every category of people faced death in the days and weeks following the Japanese conquest of Nanjing. Reports indicated that fifty police officers from the Safety Zone were executed for permitting Chinese soldiers to enter the area. The city's firefighters were taken away to meet an uncertain fate, and six street sweepers were killed inside their dwelling. Like an uncontrollable epidemic, the victors' bloodlust seemed to escalate continuously, seeking out new victims. When the Japanese ordered the Safety Zone committee to supply workers for the electricity plant in Xiaguan to restore its operations, they provided 54 individuals. Within days, 43 of them were dead. Although young men were especially targeted, the Japanese made no distinctions based on age or sex. American missionary John G. Magee documented numerous instances of indiscriminate killings, including the chilling account of two families nearly exterminated. Stabbings, shootings, and rapes marked the slaughter of three generations of innocents, including toddlers aged four and two; the older child was bayoneted, while the younger was struck in the head with a sword. The only survivors were a badly injured eight-year-old girl and her four-year-old sister, who spent the following fortnight beside their mother's decaying body. The violence was often accompanied by various forms of humiliation, as if to utterly break the spirit of the conquered people. One woman lost her parents and three children. When she purchased a coffin for her father, a Japanese soldier tore the lid off and discarded the old man's body in the street. Another soldier, in a drunken stupor, raped a Chinese woman and then vomited on her. In yet another incident, a soldier encountered a family of six huddled over a pot of thin rice soup; he stepped over them and urinated into their pot before continuing on his way, laughing heartlessly. The atrocities committed at Nanjing were not akin to something like the Holocaust. Within places like Auschwitz killings became industrialized and often took on an impersonal, unemotional character. The murders in Nanjing had an almost intimate quality, with each individual perpetrator bearing the blood of their victims on their hands, sometimes literally. In this sense, the Nanjing atrocities resemble the early Holocaust killings executed by German Einsatzgruppen in Eastern Europe, prior to the implementation of gas chambers. How many died during the Nanjing Massacre? Eyewitnesses at the time recognized that the Japanese behavior had few immediate precedents. Missionary John Magee compared the situation to the Turkish genocide of the Armenians during World War I, which was still fresh in memory. Despite this, no consensus emerged regarding the exact number of fatalities, a state of affairs that would persist for nearly eight decades. In his first comprehensive account of the atrocities following the conquest of the capital, New York Times correspondent Tillman Durdin reported that 33,000 Chinese soldiers lost their lives in Nanjing, including 20,000 who were executed. Foreign correspondent Frank Oliver claimed in a 1939 publication that 24,000 men, women, and children were put to death during the first month of the city's occupation. As time progressed, much larger figures began to circulate. After returning to Germany in 1938, John Rabe held a lecture where he cited European estimates that between 50,000 and 60,000 people had died. In February 1942, Chiang Kai-shek stated that 200,000 were slaughtered within one week. The Nanjing tribunal established by Chiang's government to try Japanese war criminals in 1946 and 1947 reported that more than 300,000 lives had been lost following the city's fall. The highest estimate recorded comes from a Chinese military expert, who put the death toll at 430,000. Currently, the figure most commonly accepted in official Chinese media is 300,000, a number also cited by various authors sympathetic to China's contemporary regime. The debate over the Nanjing death toll has been a complex and extensive discussion, likely to remain unresolved to everyone's satisfaction. As missionary and Nanjing University teacher Miner Searle Bates remarked when he testified before the International Military Tribunal for the Far East in July 1946, “The scope of this killing was so extensive that no one can provide a complete picture of it.” On December 16, American missionary Minnie Vautrin witnessed a truck passing by Ginling College, loaded with eight to ten girls. When they saw the Western woman, they cried out, "Jiu ming! Jiu ming!" which means “Help! Help!” Vautrin felt powerless, fully aware of the fate that awaited them. As early as Tuesday of that week, she had documented rumors of girls being raped. The following night, women were taken in large numbers from their homes. Another missionary, John Magee wrote to his wife “The most horrible thing now is the raping of the women, which has been going on in the most shameless way I have ever known”. A tentative list compiled by Lewis Smythe detailed instances of rape occurring soon after the Japanese Army entered Nanjing: four girls at noon on December 14; four more women that evening; three female refugees on December 15; and a young wife around the same time. The accounts revealed chilling individual horrors. A 15-year-old girl was taken to a barracks housing 200 to 300 Japanese soldiers and locked in a room, where she was raped multiple times daily. Victims ranged from as young as 11 to over 80. American correspondent Edgar Snow recalled “Discards were often bayoneted by drunken soldiers,. Frequently, mothers had to witness their babies being beheaded, only to then be raped themselves.” Y.M.C.A. head George Fitch reported the case of a woman whose five-month-old infant was deliberately smothered by a soldier to silence its cries while he raped her. Such acts were a gruesome form of humiliation, designed to demonstrate that the vanquished were powerless to protect their own families. Japanese soldier Takokoro Kozo recalled “Women suffered most. No matter how young or old, they all could not escape the fate of being raped. We sent out coal trucks to the city streets and villages to seize a lot of women. And then each of them was allocated to fifteen to twenty soldiers for sexual intercourse and abuse. After raping we would also kill them”. Women were frequently killed immediately after being raped, often through horrific mutilations, such as being penetrated with bayonets, long bamboo sticks, or other objects. For instance, one six-months-pregnant woman was stabbed sixteen times in the face and body, with one stab penetrating her abdomen and killing her unborn child. In another case, a young woman had a beer bottle forcibly inserted into her vagina after being raped, and was subsequently shot.  On December 19, 1937, the Reverend James M. McCallum wrote in his diary “I know not where to end. Never I have heard or read such brutality. Rape! Rape! Rape! We estimate at least 1,000 cases a night and many by day. In case of resistance or anything that seems like disapproval, there is a bayonet stab or a bullet... People are hysterical... Women are being carried off every morning, afternoon and evening. The whole Japanese army seems to be free to go and come as it pleases, and to do whatever it pleases”.  Rabe wrote in his diary dated December 17 “wo Japanese soldiers have climbed over the garden wall and are about to break into our house. When I appear they give the excuse that they saw two Chinese soldiers climb over the wall. When I show them my party badge, they return the same way. In one of the houses in the narrow street behind my garden wall, a woman was raped, and then wounded in the neck with a bayonet. I managed to get an ambulance so we can take her to Kulou Hospital... Last night up to 1,000 women and girls are said to have been raped, about 100 girls at Ginling College...alone. You hear nothing but rape. If husbands or brothers intervene, they're shot. What you hear and see on all sides is the brutality and bestiality of the Japanese soldiers”. In a documentary film about the Nanjing Massacre, In the Name of the Emperor, a former Japanese soldier named Shiro Azuma spoke candidly about the process of rape and murder in Nanjing. “At first we used some kinky words like Pikankan. Pi means "hip", kankan means "look". Pikankan means, "Let's see a woman open up her legs." Chinese women didn't wear under-pants. Instead, they wore trousers tied with a string. There was no belt. As we pulled the string, the buttocks were exposed. We "pikankan". We looked. After a while we would say something like, "It's my day to take a bath," and we took turns raping them. It would be all right if we only raped them. I shouldn't say all right. But we always stabbed and killed them. Because dead bodies don't talk”. Without anyone to defend them, the women of Nanjing resorted to desperate measures for their safety. The young and attractive cut their hair and smeared soot on their faces to diminish their allure. Others donned boys' clothes or the garments of elderly women. However, the Japanese were well aware of these tactics and were not easily deceived. As American correspondent Snow described, it was an orgy of unprecedented debauchery, involving not only the lower ranks of the Japanese military but also officers who turned their quarters into harems, bedding a new captive each night. Open-air sexual assaults were common. During the first ten days of occupation, groups of Japanese soldiers entered the Ginling campus ten to twenty times daily, brandishing fixed bayonets stained with fresh blood. So overwhelmed, Vautrin decided to prioritize saving lives over salvaging possessions, spending those early days frantically moving across campus to prevent marauding soldiers from taking away women. A particularly tense situation unfolded on the evening of December 17, when Vautrin and other staff members at Ginling College were called to the front of the campus to confront a group of Japanese soldiers. Earlier, Vautrin had received documentation from another officer affirming that the area was a legitimate refugee camp. The soldiers torn up the document in front of her. For hours, with armed Japanese soldiers encircling them, Vautrin and her colleagues were left standing or kneeling, uncertain of what awaited them. Gradually, it became clear that they had been lured to the front gate so that other soldiers could enter through a side entrance and abduct twelve women. As Vautrin recalled “Never shall I forget the scene. The dried leaves rattling, the moaning of the wind, the cries of women being led away.” The staff remained at the entrance until 11:00 pm, fearing that hiding soldiers might fire on them if they moved. This was the only time that Vautrin was unable to prevent rape, a failure that would haunt her for the rest of her life. Some Japanese soldiers, seeking young girls, ordered a middle-aged Chinese woman to assist them in finding targets. When she either could not or would not comply, they shot a rifle across her abdomen, narrowly missing and taking away “three handbreadths of flesh.” When the Japanese Army entered Nanjing, little damage had been inflicted on the buildings, as noted by U.S. missionary James McCallum at the end of December. On the first day of their occupation, Japanese soldiers immediately dispersed into Nanjing in small groups, breaking shop windows and looting the goods within. They carried away their spoils in crates and stolen rickshaws. Initially, the looting was partly a makeshift response to the poor logistics of the Japanese Army. Combat soldiers had arrived well ahead of their supply lines and faced severe food shortages until the roads reopened and the Yangtze River became navigable.  Every building in Nanjing was looted and turned upside down. Everything not nailed down was stolen: doors and window frames were removed, safes opened with rifle shots or grenades. Japanese soldiers often pillaged property while the owners were present, threatening them with bayonets. Abandoned cars littered the streets, typically overturned and stripped of useful items, including batteries. Like Russian soldiers in Berlin seven and a half years later, the rank-and-file soldiers displayed a particular interest in watches. As the scale of plunder grew, transportation became scarce. By the end of December, looting was being conducted using trucks. When vehicles were unavailable, Japanese soldiers resorted to wheelbarrows and even children's prams. Mules, donkeys, and people were also commandeered. Just as during their advance from Shanghai to Nanjing, the Chinese were forced to assist in looting their own homes. A common sight was a Japanese soldier leading a group of Chinese down the street, laden with stolen goods. While Chinese soldiers had also engaged in some looting during their evacuation of Nanjing, it was nothing compared to the scale of the Japanese victors' plunder. The Chinese forces had deliberately avoided breaking into foreign buildings, a distinction that the Japanese disregarded. The American, British, and German embassies, along with the ambassadors' residences, were ransacked, stripped of everything from bedding and money to watches, rugs, and artwork. The American School was looted, and its wall breached to remove the piano. As the Japanese stripped the city, they also began to burn it. While the winter sky could have been sparkling, it was instead filled with smoke from thousands of fires across the city. Some fires resulted from carelessness, such as when soldiers cooked meat from a stolen cow over a bonfire, accidentally igniting an ancient building. Others were acts of mindless vandalism. The Nanking Music Shop saw all its instruments and sheets piled in the street and set ablaze. The extent of the massacre can, to some degree, be linked to a breakdown in discipline among Japanese soldiers. Released from weeks or months of hardship on the battlefield, many soldiers experienced an intoxicating sense of freedom, resembling misbehaving boys. The deterioration of order among Japanese soldiers astonished those familiar with the stories of the stringent discipline within Japan's armed forces. Observers commented on soldiers laughing at proclamations from their own officers or tearing up orders and tossing them to the ground. Some foreign witnesses speculated that this lack of discipline was exacerbated by the absence of visible individual numbers on soldiers, making it challenging to identify wrongdoers. The issue also stemmed from the quality of the Japanese officer corps and their ability to manage a large army of young men, many of whom were experiencing freedom from societal constraints for the first time. Not all officers rose to the occasion; Vautrin witnessed an officer almost fail to prevent a soldier from raping a girl. Even worse, some officers transitioned from passive bystanders, guilty by inaction, to active participants in prolonged rape sessions. While a few attempted to instill discipline among their troops, their efforts often fell short. A Japanese colonel, for instance, slapped a soldier attempting to rape a Chinese woman. Another general was seen striking a private who had bayoneted a Chinese man and threatened two Germans, raising questions about how much of this discipline was merely performative for the benefit of foreign observers. Ultimately, disciplinary measures had little impact. As Rabe noted in his diary dated December 18th “The soldiers have almost no regard for their officers”. The absence of effective higher leadership during this critical period likely exacerbated the problem. General Matsui had been suffering from malaria since November 3, which left him largely incapacitated from December 5 to 15. A subordinate later testified that he had been informed of "incidents of stealing, killing, assault, and rape and had become quite enraged.” Although Matsui may have been displeased by the unruly behavior of his soldiers, it is conceivable that his inaction led to even greater levels of atrocity than might have occurred otherwise. He insisted on holding a victory parade on December 17, immediately after recovering from his illness, which likely triggered a security frenzy among Japanese officers concerned about the safety of Prince Asaka, uncle to Emperor Hirohito. This reaction likely prompted a surge in searches for, and executions of, suspected former Chinese soldiers. The Japanese high command in Tokyo was also aware of the unraveling discipline. On January 4, 1938, Army Headquarters sent Matsui an unusually direct message ordering him to restore control among his troops: Our old friend Ishiwara Kanji bitterly criticized the situation and placed the blame on Matsui “We earnestly request enhancement of military discipline and public morals. The morale of the Japanese had never been at a lower level.” A detachment of military police eventually arrived in Nanjing, leading to some improvements, though their presence was mixed. Some officers stationed outside the Safety Zone ignored atrocities occurring before them and, in some cases, participated directly. At Ginling College, the experience with military police was decidedly uneven. The first group of about 25 men tasked with guarding the college ended up committing rape themselves.  Despite frequent visits from Japanese soldiers in search of loot and victims to assault, the Safety Zone was perceived as successful. Many believed that both the zone and the work of its managing committee were responsible for saving countless lives. W. Plumer Mills, vice chairman of the committee, noted that the zone “did give some protection during the fighting…but the chief usefulness of the Zone has been the measure of protection it has afforded to the people since the occupation.” Shortly after the Japanese conquest, the population of the Safety Zone swelled to a quarter million people. Around 70,000 of these were organized into 25 pre-arranged camps, while the majority sought accommodation wherever possible. Makeshift “mat-shed villages” sprang up in vacant areas throughout the zone. Nanjing quickly became informally divided into two distinct cities. Outside the Safety Zone, the atmosphere was ghostly, with a population dwindling to around 10,000, while within the zone, bustling activity thrived. Shanghai Road, which ran through the center of the zone and had once been a wide boulevard, transformed into a hub of barter and trade, resembling a festive market during Chinese New Year, overflowing with makeshift stalls, tea shops, and restaurants, making it nearly impossible to traverse by vehicle. The Japanese held a degree of respect for Westerners, although this sentiment was not universal and did not always offer protection. Many foreigners tried to safeguard their homes by displaying their national flags outside, but they often found that Japanese soldiers would break in regardless. To protect Ginling College, American flags were displayed at eight locations around the compound, and a large 30-foot American flag was spread out in the center. However, this proved to be “of absolutely no use” in preventing Japanese soldiers from entering the area. Despite this, there was some limited outright hostility towards Americans. Stronger negative sentiments were directed towards the Russians and the British, who were viewed as representatives of nations with competing interests against the Japanese Empire. The Japanese displayed particular reverence for one nationality, the Germans. Rabe would shout “Deutsch” or “Hitler” to command respect from unruly Japanese soldiers or show them his swastika armband, indicating his allegiance to the Nazi Party. Germany was seen as a rising power and rapidly becoming one of Japan's closest allies, a fellow outcast in global politics. However, as time passed, the limits of this respect became evident; individual soldiers began searching for women within the German embassy compound, and eventually, nearly all German buildings were broken into. Despite all the challenges, there was no doubting that foreigners offered a form of protection unavailable elsewhere. Within days of the Japanese conquest, women and children began appearing in large numbers outside Rabe's home, kneeling and knocking their heads on the ground as they begged to be let into his already overcrowded garden.  At 1:00 pm on January 1, the Chinese were proclaimed rulers of their own city, or at least this is what Japanese propaganda sought to convey. On the first day of the new year, a puppet government was established in a ceremony held just north of the Safety Zone. A new five-bar flag, the one associated with the early Chinese republic was raised, signaling a patriotic spirit in a gesture that felt unconvincing. As the new leaders took office, vowing to resurrect their city, buildings burned all around them. The ceremony marked the culmination of two weeks of preparatory work. As early as December 15, General Matsui met with a local Chinese leader, referred to in the Japanese commander's diary only as Chen, who had been selected to assist in forming this new puppet government. Chen had been present in the northern port city of Tianjin two years earlier when Matsui helped establish the Chinese chapter of the Greater Asia Association. He subscribed to Matsui's concepts of “Asia for Asians,” but cautioned that Chinese fears of the Japanese would complicate the governance of the conquered territories.   The new government aligned with the Japanese army to implement a system of indoctrination centered on conservatism, primarily targeting the youth, who were perceived as most likely to resist. The indoctrination included messages like, “You must follow the old custom in marriage, letting your parents make arrangements for you. You must not go to theaters or study English, etc. China and Japan must become one, and then the nation will be strong.” Few were deceived by these attempts to win hearts and minds. The government-sanctioned newspaper, the Xinshengbao, or New Life Journal, was immediately dismissed as a crude vehicle for propaganda. Additionally, the government made minimal progress in more urgent tasks, such as restoring peacetime conditions and revitalizing Nanjing's economy, a challenge made formidable by Japanese brutality. Given the fate of the first group of volunteers at the electricity plant after the conquest, no one could be found to fill the needed 40 to 45 worker slots. The same was true for firefighters. The predictable outcomes followed. Water and limited power were restored to parts of the city by January 2, but within two days, the city was plunged back into darkness. By January 13, the waterworks were still non-operational, and the power supply remained intermittent while fires continued to blaze well into January. The government was not taken seriously, struggling even with the Japanese. It quickly built a reputation for being venal and corrupt. One of its names was the Nanjing Autonomous Government, which a clever member of the foreign community humorously rebranded as the “Automatic Government,” reflecting its actual role as a puppet regime devoid of autonomy.  While Nanjing endured its own nightmarish reality, the city's inhabitants had little understanding of the events transpiring beyond its walls. The first radio news that reached foreign residents came on January 7, reporting Japanese air raids on Wuhan. There were also unconfirmed rumors suggesting that Hangzhou was experiencing similar horrors to those in Nanjing, but details were scarce. It was perhaps expected that reports from afar would be limited in wartime, yet information about situations closer to Nanjing was similarly scarce, and the horrific truth gradually dawned on the city's populace. A Westerner who managed to escape east from Nanjing in early January reported that all villages within a 20-mile radius had been burned to the ground. Outside the city, Japanese soldiers were randomly shooting civilians, including children. A German who drove an hour from Nanjing encountered no living souls. After the conquest, Chinese who managed to leave Nanjing reported that every pond between the city and Juyong was filled with the decaying corpses of people and animals. Many of the atrocities committed during this time appeared to stem from boredom and a search for cheap thrills. American missionary Magee witnessed a young farmer who had sustained severe burns on his upper body. After the soldiers demanded money from him and he failed to comply, they doused him in kerosene and set him ablaze. Similarly, a young boy suffered horrific burns after he failed to lead a group of soldiers to his “mama.” People in the rural areas surrounding Nanjing faced danger from numerous directions. Not only were they potential targets for marauding Japanese soldiers, but they were also at risk from bands of Chinese outlaws, who preyed on the large influx of refugees on the roads and the few souls who remained at home despite the fierce conflict raging nearby. Magee encountered a 49-year-old woman whose home was invaded by bandits looking for money. “When she and her husband said they had none they battered her head and breast with a stool and burned her feet until she revealed their savings of between four and five dollars.” In the absence of a formal government, informal authority was often wielded by secret societies. For instance, the “Big Sword Society” reportedly offered protection not only against Japanese soldiers and local bandits but also against small groups of Chinese troops seeking to escape back to their lines and resorting to theft for survival. What a blast from the past eh?   Rumors began to circulate in early January 1938 that the Chinese Army was preparing to retake Nanjing and that Chiang Kai-shek's soldiers had already been spotted inside the city walls. Many of the small makeshift Japanese flags that had appeared outside private homes in mid-December suddenly vanished, and some Chinese residents who had been wearing Japanese armbands hastily removed them. There was even talk of launching an attack on the Japanese embassy. Word spread that the Japanese were becoming frightened and were searching for Chinese clothing to disguise themselves as civilians in the event of a retreat. In reality, none of this was true. The Chinese Army was still reorganizing after the costly campaign that had forced it from Shanghai to Nanjing and then further into the interior. However, this did not imply that the Japanese had achieved complete control over the city. After six weeks of terror, Nanjing began to reassert itself. Japanese soldiers faced fatalities and injuries in skirmishes with members of secret organizations like the “Yellow Spears” and the “Big Sword Society.”  After the New Year, the population within the Safety Zone began to dwindle. A week into 1938, the number of refugees at Ginling College, which had peaked at more than 10,000, fell to around 5,000. Less than a month after the conquest, many former residents started returning to their homes during the day and then coming back to the college at night. Still, the city was far from safe, and even for those whose homes were located within the Safety Zone, Vautrin believed it was unwise to stray too far from her refugee camp. One month after Japanese forces had surged through its gates, Nanjing was a thoroughly devastated city, with fires still being set every day and night. By mid-January, estimates suggested that more than half the city had been burned down, with the main shopping district completely gone, as well as the entertainment area surrounding the Confucius Temple. Nevertheless, slowly but surely, the shell-shocked city began to pull itself together and started the long process of renewal. Vautrin considered opening an industrial school offering four-month courses for women to help compensate for the loss of labor resulting from the indiscriminate killing of men. Chinese New Year fell on January 31, 1938. Celebrated throughout Asia, it was also recognized by the Japanese. It was a “dismal, muddy” day, and as many feared, soldiers who appeared “too happy” from excessive drinking attempted to enter the Safety Zone in search of women but were stopped. The sound of thousands of firecrackers filled the air, fulfilling the age-old purpose of scaring away evil spirits. Refugees in Rabe's compound presented him with a large red silk banner adorned with a gold Chinese inscription. His Chinese friends translated the message for him “You are the living Buddha For a hundred thousand people”. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. In December 1937, the battle for Nanjing left its residents in terror as the Japanese army advanced. Following the invasion, a horrific massacre began, with thousands targeted in brutal killings, torture, and humiliation. Civilians and soldiers alike were indiscriminately slain, and the Japanese military showed no mercy. To this day the Nanjing Massacre stands as a testament to the unbelievable evil man holds within him.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host Miko Lee speaks with author, activist Michelle MiJung Kim about her new Podcast, I Feel That Way Too. Then we listen to the first episode. Michelle MiJung Kim Website I Feel That Way Too podcast     I FEEL THAT WAY TOO show Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to APEX Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee, and tonight I'll be talking with author, speaker, and activist, Michelle MiJung Kim, about the new podcast. So we get to listen after the interview to the very first episode, and you get a little behind the scenes with activist Michelle MiJung. Kim, stay tuned. welcome, Michelle MiJung Kim to Apex Express. I'm so excited to chat with you. You are an award-winning author, activist, and now a podcast host. Hello girl. Welcome. Yay. Michelle MiJung Kim: Hello. Thank you so much for having me, Miko. I'm so excited. Miko Lee: I wanna start with my big question, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Michelle MiJung Kim: Hmm. What a deep question that I can go on forever about. My people are, first and foremost people who are in my life, who have supported me throughout. Everything that I've gone through in my life, including my friends and family who have different lineages, people, most of the people that I hold near and dear carry with them, a deep understanding of their historical trauma, their familial trauma, and people who are courageous enough to share them [00:02:00] with me. So that really creates this bond that I have with my people. A lot of my people are in the queer and trans community and in the physical space of the Ohlone land, also known as Oakland, California. A lot of my community rooted in my Asian American identity. Miko Lee: Love this. My follow up, what is the legacy you carry with you from your people? Michelle MiJung Kim: The legacy that I carry from my people that jumps out to me right now is the legacy of my grandparents. My grandparents were both born in Korea. My grandpa from the north, my grandma from the south, and I am always thinking about how my grandpa was fighting for the Korea's liberation from Japanese occupation, and he was a writer himself. I always saw him writing and he had [00:03:00] stacks of paper ready to be published, but he ended up not being able to publish before he passed. So my book dedication starts with my gratitude to my grandparents and my grandpa specifically. The legacy of his work, his spirit, his love for philosophy, social justice language I carry with me. My grandmother, who was part of the first class of women in her generation to go to a university she was a badass matriarch of our family and her energy, her audacity, her courage, her confidence in her herself and her community is what I try to channel. I think about them every day. Miko Lee: Ugh. I love that. I'm wondering if you could share a little bit about your book. Michelle MiJung Kim: My book is called The Wake Up Closing The Gap Between Good Intentions and Real Change and really it's part memoir, part [00:04:00] principles of Social justice that I hold near to my heart. I really wanted to write a book that could be timeless and that could put into accessible ways how we can embody these values that are important for our collective liberation. So much of the social justice work that I encountered throughout my education journey had been highly intellectualized and theoretical and sometimes not unpacked in ways that feel human. I wanna see how people are struggling to hold social justice values while living their daily lives. How sometimes it gets challenging to embody the values that we say are important to us because it asks us to trade off our comfort and safety sometimes. I wanted to be really honest about my experience trying to live in alignment with my values, including the parts of my own contradictions and struggles and paradoxes that I've had to navigate. Miko Lee: Such a powerful [00:05:00] book for the time of now in that it does have the personal story, but then also recognizing what's happening in our world. It's really action forward. Tell me how you got from this book to creating a podcast series called. I feel that way too. Tell me what inspired this whole series? Michelle MiJung Kim: I think it is an extension of the work that I've been doing, which really marries personal storytelling and social justice values. I Feel that way too, exploring these tricky life questions like, can we be friends if we politically disagree? What if I'm not above revenge, even though I am a self-proclaimed abolitionist? Why do I have this urge to, be vengeful and why do I feel gleeful when people that have done harm get punished, right? Am I supposed to sleep with one person for the rest of my life? Am I a bad daughter? These are all the questions that I've struggled [00:06:00] with. I wanted to have an opportunity to unpack them with raw honesty and with guests that could really help guide me in thinking about these things while trying to stay tethered to my values around social justice. I've always been a fan of audio storytelling. So this was the perfect opportunity to explore that, especially in an era where the world is constantly insisting we solve these issues in isolation and we deal with our traumas in shame and without each other's witnessing. This is my way of hopefully making people feel a little bit less alone in their struggles and also in a way that, helps us to build more courage and community through stories. Miko Lee: I binge the entire season. Super fun, super personal., I was wondering how did you decide on these topics? Did they come naturally [00:07:00] or did you create an arc? Tell me about your process. Michelle MiJung Kim: I had probably two, three pages long list of topics that I wanted to explore and we had to pick and narrow it down. I wanted to tackle questions that felt existential in the collective psyche. I look at and feel into the zeitgeist of what is happening in the world . These are the questions that I wanted to explore because of my own life, but also some of these questions bring up a lot of shame and tension. when I looked at other podcasts that were exploring similar topics, I just felt as though a lot of these issues were being talked about in a very intellectualized way, in a very theoretical way without the raw sort of personal storytelling aspect that I was craving. So this was my attempt at being, courageous and practicing what I preach and being able to share some of the more vulnerable [00:08:00] tensions that aren't typically explored in the public arena. Miko Lee: Oh wow. So two whole more pages for future seasons of shows to do. I was, struck by how vulnerable the episodes are, how they're so personal. The first one being around, supporting your single mom and around financial and really emotional stability that really struck me as being so very personal and deep. I just wonder, has your mom and dad listened to the series or particularly that episode and what has been any response? Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. Um, my dad, no, but my mom, yes. I wanted my mom to listen to it before it aired. 'cause I thought that was the only fair thing to do. I gave her the option also to not have this air if she didn't want it to go live. And I was. So [00:09:00] scared about how she was gonna receive it. And for the listeners, the story really goes deep into my struggle around prioritizing her needs over my desires, and constantly living in this. Feeling of guilt for not doing more to support my mom. And also our definition of love and sacrifice being entangled in ways that feel sometimes impossible to navigate. I had attempted to have this conversation years ago with my mom that like completely backfire that I talk about on the podcast and, since then, I just never broached the subject because I was so nervous about how she was gonna take it. , And my biggest fear was her feeling less loved and feeling, hurt by my honesty. And so when it came time for me to present this podcast to her, I was incredibly nervous. What ended up happening was we ended up listening to the episode together. She was sitting [00:10:00] right there on the couch behind me and the, I played the episode and I just couldn't look at her face. So instead of looking directly at her, I had my camera on , so I could look at her through my phone. And I had my back toward her, and within the first five minutes she started crying. So I would pause the episode, talk to her about what was coming up for her. We would cry, we would fight, we would argue, we would apologize and we would cry again. So the entire episode that's 30 minutes long, took us three hours to get through. Miko Lee: Wow. Michelle MiJung Kim: It was incredibly difficult emotionally. And it was probably one of the most pivotal interactions I've ever had with my mom. I've been able to be more honest than ever with her. [00:11:00] She got to also be honest in her reaction and response, and we were able to be really brave with our vulnerability, which we had never done because most of our lives, our love and , especially our pain was communicated through silence. Just pretending that we're not hurting because we don't wanna hurt the other person. Very Asian. It was hard, very Asian, but it was also really healing. Miko Lee: Wow. I would love, love, love a follow up episode with you interviewing your mom. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. I don't if request that. Miko Lee: I dunno if she'd be downed for that, but that would, I'm curious if you could share a little bit more about your needing to have your back toward her in the beginning and if that shifted over those three hours. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. I think it was my fear of my truth being seen by her , and the inability for me to face her [00:12:00] when I knew my truth was hurting her. Hmm. And I also didn't want to pressure her to react in a certain way when I'm looking at her. So I, I, I don't know if she knew that I was looking at her through my phone. But I think I really wanted her to have an honest reaction and, that scared me. So I, and so at some point in. Yeah, I did turn around after I saw her crying. I paused the episode and I looked at her and I said, well, what's coming up for you? And she, her first thing, the first thing that she said was, I just don't remember it that way. Which started a whole nother conversation right around how she remembers my childhood, from her vantage point. And I think it's only natural for a parent, for anyone to want to know that their child, was not [00:13:00] hurt by their choices and that they did the best that they could and that was enough. And I think it's really hard to make space for the possibility that their best. Also cause harm. Hmm. Without making them, one dimensionally a bad person or a bad mother. I think holding multiple truths like that can be so difficult , for anyone, but especially when it comes to the impact that our action has on our loved ones. Mm-hmm. So I think it was truly, shattering the image of what she thought was our childhood. And rewriting an entire history in her mind, in order to make space for my reality. And I think that took a lot of courage on her part, and also a lot of grace, that she had to extend to herself and me. Miko Lee: And by the end of that three hours, did you have a sense of resolve or a different [00:14:00] path moving forward? Michelle MiJung Kim: I think we didn't come to a hundred percent agreement on what happened, which I didn't expect. But there was certainly things that were said that we had never verbalized before around what was hard, what was painful, and what we kept from one another. And I think we needed time away from each other to really process that. So I think we did the best that we could. Actually that night we went to a concert together 'cause we already had tickets and we could not go. And we went, Miko Lee: what was the concert? Michelle MiJung Kim: We went to a K-pop concert, Bada, which is Miko Lee: Oh yeah. Michelle MiJung Kim: All like dancing. Miko Lee: Love her. Michelle MiJung Kim: So we just let out all of our angst , dancing and that was a good end to our night. Miko Lee: That's a great way to actually resolve dance it out. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah, exactly. We just dance it out. And then, at first it was a little awkward, but, we got over it. Mm-hmm. [00:15:00] Afterwards, she listened to the podcast on her own with a transcript because her first language is not English. She really wanted to make sure that she understood what she listened to. So she had the transcript in front of her and she was looking up words that she didn't understand. She said that really helped her to understand more of what, I was trying to say. I didn't expect this, but weeks later she just randomly said, I am really sorry. I did the best that I could and I didn't know how much you were carrying. That changed everything for me. I didn't expect that kind of acknowledgement and validation from her when I was putting out this episode when I was writing it. I truly just wanted to do justice to my own truth and make space for my stories in ways that I'd never done before. But to then receive her acknowledgement, of some of the things that [00:16:00] I talked about was. Truly invaluable and healing in ways that I didn't expect. That completely changed our relationship. I'm able to be a lot more honest with her and I feel less, guarded about, the most tender parts of me when I'm around her. Miko Lee: Wow, that's so powerful that one episode. How impactful. Thank you so much for sharing about that. the topics that rose to the top in your conversations? Every single one of them had such universality, the Oxford study then the talking about Gaza and the impact on your job, being friends with somebody that you disagree with politically, each of these topics, there's so much resonance. I'm wondering of the three pages you had to choose from, how did these float to the top? Michelle MiJung Kim: It was a tough one. I had a team that I talked to about which topics to prioritize and we all got votes [00:17:00] on which ones we wanted to talk about. Some I had to really push to get it in to the season. The one about, my open relationship journey, they were like, why the hell do , we wanna talk about this? For me it was like, it's not about how to do open relationship 101 or how to do poly 1 0 1. It's actually about desire. Right. How we get in touch with our desire and practice wanting and being able to practice wanting that is at the core of that episode. I really wanna talk about it because no one else was talking about it. Miko Lee: I appreciated that episode because it was about autonomy. Like how do you hold on to who you are as an individual? To me, I didn't look at it as much about poly as much as it about who am I and how do I hold on to my belief in who I am even in the midst of being in a relationship. Michelle MiJung Kim: Absolutely. Exactly. I think I wanted to prioritize topics that weren't popular in terms of the public discourse, not 'cause [00:18:00] it's not something that people are grappling with, but because it's tricky to navigate. Because it requires a lot of nuance and often I think when we talk about desire or when we talk about personal wellness and self-development, it's so often done through the lens of, white co-opted, self-help culture. I wanted to do it in a way that felt more in alignment with my values around social justice. I picked the topics that were less explored through that lens, but also that, I felt were present in our public zeitgeist and in the cultural musings. Some of these topics were also timely. Like the one about my job loss due to Palestine or my struggle with my friendships that were breaking all over the place because of our political disagreement or the conversation around [00:19:00] abolition and conflict, navigating conflict in our own lives that map to our vision of the collective liberation Miko Lee: and the contradictions that we hold. Michelle MiJung Kim: Exactly, and the contradictions that we hold and that we have to make room for that often get, muted or disregarded because it's uncomfortable to talk about or that makes us feel less radical, less critical, less social justice-y And I think these are actually quite urgent topics that we need to talk about in order for us to create more, coalitions, more resilient relationships that is at the foundation of all of our organizing. Whether that is, you know. Or in our political work or personal, , living in alignment with our values. So I felt these were also timely conversations that needed to be had in a way that felt accessible, personal, and honest, that wasn't overly packaged up. So that people can [00:20:00] resonate with the raw struggles. Miko Lee: I also appreciate how you put listeners voices in at the end and just with their perspectives, because as you're talking about, for instance, the breaking up with friends because of political differences, then we're hearing other people's voices about their experiences. So how did you do those call out for those voices and did you identify specific topics you wanted colleagues to speak on? Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah, so we did a call out for voicemails for every episode, and it was so important for me. I kept pushing our team to do it, even though we were running out of time and resources. They were like, no, we gotta cut this part out. And I was like, no, because the podcast is called, “I Feel that way too” and it's about, not just me, but how my story then gets reflected by the entire community. I wanted to make sure that the community voices become a part of this episode. I did a call out on my social media, on my newsletter, and it was actually quite hard to get people [00:21:00] to submit voicemails. I think people feel a lot of pressure to get it perfect. I asked my friends and they said they wanted to do it, but they were feeling pressured because they feel, they felt like they didn't know what to say and they wanted to say it in a way that felt professional. And so Miko Lee: come up with something profound. Michelle MiJung Kim: Exactly. They wanted to be profound and everything that we do, I think takes a level of courage. I really appreciated people who submitted their voicemails. Miko Lee: Yeah. Michelle MiJung Kim: We had voicemails coming from New Zealand, from Taiwan, from the United States from Canada, and so it was wonderful to know that there was a global sort of connection to these issues and the things that we are grappling with, and also knowing that we're none of us is really alone. Miko Lee: Speaking to the alone, we're living in such a time of isolation right now and where there's two different parties with really clear agendas and people are this way or [00:22:00] people are that way, and yet your title is, “I feel that way too”. Can you share a little bit about where that title comes from? Michelle MiJung Kim: I was part of my very first high risk direct action calling for an end to the genocide in Palestine, I was terrified and I decided to partake in it because I didn't know what else to do to process my anger and my desperation, watching what was happening unfold on my screen. I just felt like I had to do something more than what I was used to doing, whether it's donating or signing petitions or writing. There was a collective gaslighting during that time where the media outlets were justifying what was happening in Gaza. People were being, retaliated against for talking about Palestine. There was this overall, polarization between people who felt this [00:23:00] urgent need to do something about Palestine versus people who are living their daily lives as if nothing was happening. I went to participate in this direct action, I was surrounded by people who felt similarly, and after this really intense action took place when everybody was highly activated and charged because we had just seen our comrades be arrested and then released, and we were, just in our adrenaline. We all held hands to chant together collectively. And the chant went like this. ” Don't worry, I got you. I feel that way too. We'll get through together, we'll make our way through.” And when the chant leader said, I feel that way too, something in me broke and I just started weeping. In that moment, I just needed to feel like I wasn't alone in feeling this kind of [00:24:00] desperation, this type of pain and trauma, and anger towards our systems, and that just holding hands with complete strangers. Chanting, I feel that way too. Made me feel so much more grounded and hopeful and courageous to a point where I felt I was able to take more risks than I was comfortable with. So that's where, that's the origin of the phrase. I feel that way too, for our podcast. I just think back to that moment where I felt so seen, I felt so held and encouraged just by the sentence. I feel that way too. That's the kind of feeling that I hope to be able to gift to our listeners, whoever's listening to our podcast and whatever topic may be. I hope more people feel encouraged by the stories that we share and the way that we are creating space for us to be vulnerable and courageous together. Miko Lee: I [00:25:00] love that. So you're asking your audience to listen, feel connected to something else, be able to be part of a bigger movement. Are there other things that you want your audience to ponder or to take action on? Michelle MiJung Kim: I think the podcast really is about, community and courage. The podcast asks us to be courageous about identifying what we want, about how we want to live our lives, who we want to be, and being courageous enough to face the contradictions and make space for the collective, and connection. I would love more than anything for people to feel seen. But also feel encouraged to share their stories with people in their lives and to hopefully be able to take action together. I think the action of caring for one another in this vulnerable, honest way, the way that my mom and I got through that very difficult conversation. That [00:26:00] in and of itself is healing. Multiple generations of trauma. If we all could muster up the courage to practice that level of honesty and courage with one another, so much of our, need to heal can be met and so much more possibility emerges from that action. After airing some of the episodes, we also hosted a discussion session. Called the Courage Collective, where we got to discuss and unpack what came up for people after they listened to the episode, and that was incredible. Just being able to have a consistent space where people can meet provided that sense of community that we all need right now to be able to move in solidarity with our broader movement , and to sustain this very difficult, exhausting path that we're all walking in our personal lives, but also in our collective lives. I hope people can listen to the podcast and share with somebody that they wanna talk about the topics and keep the [00:27:00] conversation going in a way that can encourage you to take action that brings you closer to more community, more possibilities for our collective liberation. Miko Lee: Michelle MiJung Kim, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. We're gonna put a link to the entire series in our show notes. where else can they find out more information about you and your work and your book. Michelle MiJung Kim: Everything you need to know about me on my website, www.michellemijungkim.com. You can sign up for my newsletter and follow me on social media, on Instagram at Michelle Kimkim or on LinkedIn. Miko Lee: Love it. Thank you so much for joining me. So now take a listen to the first episode of, “I Feel that way too.” Michelle MiJung Kim: The other day I was talking to my mom about my uncle, her older brother who has stage four lung cancer. My mom was [00:28:00] venting about how upset she was that her brother's kids weren't jumping at the opportunity to pay his hospital bills. She said he sacrificed his whole life for them. How could they do this to him? I mean, they have their own lives too, mom. One of them has a little kid. It's not exactly cheap to raise kids in Korea. So I don't know. It feels fair to me that they're talking about what they can or can't afford. My mom was not having it. She said they have their whole lives to be there for their kid, but their dad, he doesn't have that much time left. They should do everything they can to support him. Wait, were we talking about love or money? My mom knew there was a difference right after a few back and forths. I just asked her the question that I really wanted to ask. Do you think uncle feels like his kids [00:29:00] don't love him because they're not giving him money? It wasn't just a question about my uncle and his kids. It was a question about me and my mom. About love and sacrifice, after all, isn't our willingness to sacrifice the ultimate measure of our love. Hi, and welcome to, I Feel That Way Too, a podcast where we ask some of life's trickiest questions and together find the courage to unpack them one story at a time. If you've ever wondered how life could be different, but didn't know where to turn, I'm here to tell you, you are not alone. I feel that way too. Ever since I was young, I felt responsible for taking care of my single mom. You know, growing up seeing her sacrifice so much for [00:30:00] me and my younger sister. When I got older, I just thought, yeah, that's my job now. That's just what you do, right? Whether it was taking a soul sucking corporate job, or using my savings to relocate her from Korea. I took the responsibility for caring for her seriously. I took pride in it. Whatever sacrifice I had to make felt appropriate, given how much I love her and how much she'd given up to raise me. But as an adult, I've been struggling with this more and more. If the only way I can express my love is by showing how much I'm willing to sacrifice, then how can I ever prioritize my own desires and needs? What do I do with all the guilt and shame and resentment that comes from feeling burdened by this responsibility? Have I become so Americanized that the idea of al piety feels suffocating? Am I a bad daughter? I mean, [00:31:00] that's such a common experience. This can be even more complicated in immigrant families because often we have those values, right? Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Asian values, filial piety, or we see fism as a really big value in immigrant households. So putting other people first, prioritizing the family over the individual, that's a hedged core Coley. She's a therapist, writer, and founder of Brown Girl Therapy, the first and largest mental health organization for children of immigrants. I've been following her on Instagram for years now, and I love the fact that she's making mental health relevant and accessible for Asian Americans like me, like learning Speaker 3: about words like enmeshment. So enmeshment is this idea that there are very loose or no boundaries within. Relationship. So in the family system, if we're talking about families, there are no boundaries. There is research that suggests that immigrant families tend to be more enmeshed because they're actually trying to protect themselves and their loved ones, creating these insular communities and [00:32:00] families from harm from the dominant society. So it was adaptive initially, but of course, just because it's adaptive doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy. We can see now that that kind of loose boundaries can lead to people feeling really dependent on one another. So often that's it's hierarchical in immigrant families, so it's a top down of dependency, but then children are being dependent on more, depending on your birth order, your age, your gender, your being dependent on in different ways. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Becoming someone my mom can depend on was kind of my life purpose for a long time. My attention was always on what she needed and how I could provide that as a kid. I rarely asked my mom for anything that wasn't practical or necessary. She was a single working mom, and I could see how hard she was working just to keep us afloat. Instead, I tried to help however I could. I'd hand over my New Year's allowance from my aunties and uncles. Whenever we went out [00:33:00] to eat, I'd always check the prices on the menu to make sure I wasn't picking something too expensive. I worked hard in school, got good grades, and told myself, this is how I can help. I'll get into a good college, land a good job, and make enough money to take care of her. That's exactly what I did. Right after college, I jumped into corporate America instead of chasing my passion for social justice because. At the time, what mattered most was bringing my mom to the US and supporting her financially. And honestly, I was proud of myself for that, starting so young, being able to help my mom. It felt good. Looking back though, I realized that I never really let myself just want things, you know, like things just for me. And then in my thirties, something started to shift. I found myself really struggling with our relationship. I was having trouble differentiating my desires from her needs. Speaker 3: So in the Western world, we talk about [00:34:00] individuation. When you're an adolescent, you were growing up and you start to build your unique interests and you start to prioritize your friends and you start to be your own person. A lot of us immigrant children didn't really get that we were still expected to do X, Y, and Z, so we didn't really get that chance to individuate around that age, you know, as we're 12, 13, up until 19, 20, 21. And so a lot of us are doing that later in life. I work with clients who are 30, 40, 50 years old who are like, wow, this is the first time I'm doing something for myself. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: At every crossroads in my career, my decisions were often tied to one question. How will this affect my ability to support my mom? Can I quit my job? How much money do I need saved up to cover both of us for six months? Even little decisions like whether to make a frivolous purchase came with this gnawing sense of responsibility. That kind of mental math had become second nature, but prioritizing my own joy and [00:35:00] abundance. Well, that always came with a side of guilt. It felt like my entire life was split in two. One part lived for me and the other for my mom, and as I got older, the tension between the two only grew becoming harder to navigate and more emotionally draining. Sahe calls this parent child role reversal parentification. Speaker 3: At the root of it, there are two types of parentification. There's instrumental parentification, which is more about taking care. In more practical roles of the family. So maybe, you know, cooking for sick relatives or making sure your younger siblings were okay, or if you were a latchkey kid, left at home alone, you know, going to school one time, making your bed, all of these things that you had to do for yourself or for your family because maybe your parents were out working or just weren't able to do it. And then we have emotional parentification, which is more about taking on those emotional roles. So being the family mediator, maybe taking on the role [00:36:00] of a parent or a spouse for one of your parents, because either one parent isn't more present or because emotionally they don't have the type of relationship where they speak to each other more emotionally or vulnerably. So a parent might use a child to do that. It's also about generally managing your parents' feelings. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: One year after many years of working with my therapist, I mustered up the courage to set some financial boundaries with my mom. Not necessarily because of money, but because I needed to shed the guilt. That gnawing feeling that whatever I was doing was never enough and that there was always more to give. I thought if I can get my mom to tell me the exact amount that she actually needs, then I can finally know that I'm meeting her expectations and I don't have to wonder if I'm not doing enough. I could handle the financial responsibility, but I didn't wanna carry the emotional weight anymore. So one day at a [00:37:00] posh new Indian Fusion restaurant that I thought she'd like, I mustered up the courage to ask her, can you tell me exactly how much you need monthly so I can better budget my own finances? Up until then, I was paying her rent and giving her allowance in random amounts, paying for whatever needs arose at various times throughout the month. She was visibly perturbed by my question. Without looking at me, she said, just give me whatever you can. I insisted, no, mom, I want you to tell me what you need and want. She replied, I just want you to do what feels good and right for you. I said, I don't know what that is, so I need you to tell me. I was getting frustrated. She was getting uncomfortable, so I said. Okay, fine. So if I said $500 per month, that's okay with [00:38:00] you. She looked visibly worried. See, so you know what you need. Why won't you just tell me, make my life easier? She burst into tears. Why are you making me say an amount? You want me to feel shame? I already feel bad now. We were both cry, yelling. People at other tables were exchanging awkward glances. She said, don't make me say an amount out loud. I want you to support me because you love me and because you want to, not because I'm asking you to. At this point, my voice was near full volume, tears dripping down my face from knowing I had caused her pain, but somehow my untamed anger kept spilling out. Despite knowing full well that I had done enough damage to my mom's heart, I desperately needed her to see my pain too. I shouted, [00:39:00] I do love you, and I'm asking for your help. Why can't you just help me? I never got my mom to say an amount. It was as if I had spoken the very thing that needed to remain unsaid. By speaking the unspoken. I had broken the delicate dance we'd been doing for decades where love meant anticipating needs and quietly fulfilling it to save face. Where protecting meant pretending not to see the weight we each carried, because naming it would make it all too real. Silence had become our shared language of care, but now we were at a loss for words. We packed up our untouched food without speaking and left the restaurant, and I never brought up the topic again. And here I was wanting her to tell me exactly what she needed so that I could feel less [00:40:00] guilt for feeling like I'm not doing enough, even though I was doing a lot. Speaker: Mm-hmm. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: And so we were at this crossroads and we couldn't see past each other's pain and our own pain in being able to connect to one another. And since then I've been really hesitant to bring up. Any conversations around money or boundaries with her, because first and foremost, I'm terrified of her feeling like she's not loved. That somehow if I bring this up, she's going to feel more like she's a burden and she's going to stew in her own shame knowing that I don't think she has. Capacity and the skillset to be able to hold her emotions right now. And then I feel resentful that I have to think through what she needs before I can just be a child and tell her to meet me where I am for once. Right? Mm-hmm. And so then the cycle just continues and I am not sure I, I know how to get out of it. Speaker 3: Boundaries is such a like. Trigger [00:41:00] word for so many of us, right? When you hear the word boundaries, you're like, no. All of a sudden that door closes and you say, this is not something that's gonna speak to me. Because it has this reputation of being like, cut people out. Say no, protect yourself. And those narratives really don't speak to so many of us who come from collectivist backgrounds where. We want to maintain a lot of these relationships. We just don't want it to feel as bad as it does. And so disentangling and learning how to disentangle our feelings and our values from our parents is often the work I do with my clients. And it takes a long time, right? Because you are sitting down, sifting through a basically a pile of values, norms, expectations, feelings, and saying, okay, this one belongs to me. This one belongs to my mom. This one belongs to my dad. And trying to figure out. Where does that leave you, and how do we move forward and build the sense of self with things that actually feel true to you? And a lot of that work is painful. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Trying to disentangle my definition of love from my mom's isn't the only thing that's been painful to navigate. It's also the [00:42:00] realization that so much of my upbringing fundamentally shapes the way I live today. Speaker 3: At its best, parentification can lead to having a lot of pride developing really good work ethic, being really mindful of your role in your family and leaning into that. But at its worst, it can be a form of emotional neglect. And I think that's really important because in my work with children of immigrants, a lot of times a lot of us don't realize that we have different needs when we're growing up. And sure, maybe you had a roof over your head, maybe you were, you know, sent to school, maybe you always had food on the table. And these are really. Big significant needs that were met, but were you also cared for emotionally? Were you allowed to express your emotions? Were you modeled and nurtured emotionally? So just being taught that even emotions weren't something that was safe to have. And so in that way, that's when parentification can become a sign of emotional neglect. So as by definition, parentification is taking on adult-like roles or roles that are. Older than you are developmentally at a young [00:43:00] age. And it can lead to people pleasing, it can lead to perfectionism, it can lead to constantly, um, monitoring our parents or other people's emotions or feelings. Right? Those are very common long-term consequences of being parentified children because we've never really learned how to take up space. People pleasing, Sahaj Kaur Kohli: perfectionism, hyper vigilance. Yeah. I've been dealing with all of them pretty much my entire life. One of my core memories from when I used to live in Korea was being invited to a friend's house After school, we were supposed to do homework together, and her mom sat with us going over everything and helping us out. I remember feeling so reassured, like finally someone was helping me in the way that Mamie feel safe and cared for. And because I wanted to be invited back, I was always on my absolute best behavior. I didn't want her to feel like I was being a burden or a nuisance, so I made sure to take my shoes [00:44:00] off in the neatest way possible. I made sure to wipe off any crumbs off the table, and I even offered to do the dishes. Y'all, I was barely 10, but I felt like I needed to be, liked to be helped. The truth is. I am resentful. I resent that I never got to just be a kid. I'm angry that I couldn't tell my parents that I was sad or hurt or scared. I'm angry that I thought care and attention were earned. By making myself small, likable, and pleasant. I'm angry that I couldn't allow myself to rest or stumble because I knew there was no safety net to catch me and that I thought it was easier to not want than to be disappointed. But for the first time in my life, there is something I want [00:45:00] just for myself. I want to heal desperately. I want to shed this weight so I can finally be my most authentic, free, and expansive self without needing to prove anything to anyone. I want to access the safety, abundance, joy, and ease that I didn't have as a. Child. Talking to my parents about my childhood wounds feels really hard. Not only because I'm worried about how it'll make them feel, but because deep down I truly believe that they loved me the best way they knew how so? How do I even begin to tell them that their best wasn't enough to protect me from harm? How do I share that? I feel resentful for the child that I never got to have without breaking their hearts in the process. And the hardest part, even now, I catch [00:46:00] myself prioritizing their feelings over my truth. It is like this unshakeable sense of responsibility where their comfort feels more important than my pain. How do I even untangle that? Speaker 3: You deserve joy and peace and ease. I mean, ultimately so many of us aren't able to give ourselves permission to be able to work towards joy and peace and ease. 'cause we don't believe we're deserving of it. And that is a product of, you know, these family dynamics, but also guilt and shame and not knowing the difference between those two. And then feeling like we automatically are. Bad if we aren't constantly pleasing other people. So many of us also struggle with that, uh, binary mindset. You know, if I feel this way, it's wrong. If my parents are disappointed, I'm a bad child. And that's not true. We have to learn. And [00:47:00] you have to decide at what point you're willing to accept that it might not change. And then decide what you're willing to tolerate. And that's the acceptance in grief work that is so hard and grief, I call it grief for a reason. 'cause grief never goes away. There's no resolution in grief. It's learning to build a life around it. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Yeah, that's so real and so hard, that whole acceptance piece, right? Knowing that it's going to take time, but also that there may need to be a time where you start to accept, uh, your parents for who they are and what they have capacity for and what they don't. What's been really difficult for me is the acceptance of the reality. And my desire to heal, part of me feels like I can't heal until I get the acknowledgement, until I get the validation, until I feel seen in my entirety by my mom and by my dad. And sometimes I feel like that just sets me up for more disappointment and sense of betrayal and resentment because I [00:48:00] am not getting the very sort of human and childlike need from my parents. But knowing that that may never come, and I can't depend on that for my healing, but that's been really hard to accept. Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, that makes me really sad because I'm hearing you like deny yourself something that you deserve because you're still waiting for your parents to give you permission for it. When you can give yourself permission for it yourself, but for some reason you don't feel like you have enough agency or you're not allowed to be the one who decides I can heal. Even without my parents' acceptance. And that's a lot of the inner child like re-parenting work of like, you know, thinking about little Michelle and what she needs and how do you give it to her. How do you find power and strength in being able to be the adult who can say, fine, if you're not gonna take care of this little girl I am. I'm gonna take care of her. And it's really hard, right? And it's really painful, but. [00:49:00] It hurts me to hear you say that you won't be able to do this until you get that permission, because the reality is you may never get that acceptance and acknowledgement you're looking for from them. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: In high school, when I came out as bisexual to my dad, he just ignored it. He pretended he didn't hear me change the subject, and that was that we never talked about it again. And honestly, I was fine with that at the time. He didn't wanna hear more and I didn't want to share more. We lived under the same roof, but how much did we really know about each other? Anyway, fast forward many years later, I was on my way to a date with a woman I just met. I was on the phone with my dad and thought maybe this is a chance to let him in on my life, just a little. So I told him where I was going and casually asked, what would you do if I ever brought a girl home? I don't know what I [00:50:00] was expecting to hear, but I definitely wasn't prepared for his answer. Don't come home. He said Speaker 3: It's very challenging and I think I just recently had these conversations with a couple clients of mine where, you know, sometimes we have to ask ourselves. The greatest gift we can give people we love is letting them see us for all parts of ourselves, right? Every part of who we are. That's the greatest gift we can give someone we love. And not everyone deserves that gift, especially if they're not tending to it, nurturing it. And I see you like, as like a younger version of you, like vulnerable and raw and saying, love me, love me, love me. Mm-hmm. It's not just you, it's it's all of us. Right? We, we have these experiences. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: It wasn't until one Thanksgiving back at my dad's house that I realized just how much I did crave my dad's acceptance and love. Thanksgiving is one day [00:51:00] that we all gather at my dad's house. We ordered a Thanksgiving family meal from Boston Market that no one really likes chit chat and eat for no more than 40 minutes and migrate over to the living room to watch a movie of someone's choosing, usually me or my dad. This has been our way of bonding for as long as we started gathering. The movie that my dad, the same man who stonewalled me when I came out to him in high school, chose for us to watch, was Boy Erased a movie about a gay man's search for acceptance from himself and his family without making eye contact. He said, have you seen this? I thought you might like it. It's about a gay person. As someone who's never been interested in anything L-G-B-T-Q related, this was his clumsy way of inching closer to me. My dad didn't throw me a coming out party. He didn't wear a rainbow pin or proclaim how proud he was to be an ally. [00:52:00] There was no tearful heart to heart about acceptance, apologies, forgiveness, or unconditional love. And you know what? At that moment I realized. I didn't need any of that. Sitting side by side on that Costco couch of his, I understood exactly what his silence was trying to say. Speaker 3: And that's what happens in high context cultures, right? It's not about being direct, it's not about being explicit. It's more about what the contextual clues are. I think behaviors is where it all comes down to. So that might have been your dad's way of saying, I accept you and the way that I know how, and me watching this with you is my way of showing that in the same way that my dad. Never growing up or through my thirties, only recently started to say, I love you. But growing up I would go home and he would leave me newspaper clippings about mental health or about something I had told him about and those would be on my bed every time I would visit home. And that's, I knew, was his way of saying, I love you. [00:53:00] Right. We have the cut fruit anecdote that everyone has in an Asian household. Our mom's way of loving us is through food and by caring for us and caretaking for us. 'cause that's the role they knew how to play. I even had an interesting conversation with my mom where I've asked her, I think this was a while ago, where I asked her, what else do you wanna do? Like stop trying to do my laundry when I come home. Get out of the kitchen. We'll just order food. But then I realized it made her sad and I realized I was actually taking away her agency to love me in the way she knew how. Because that's not how I need to be loved. I've also asked my parents, did your parents ever say, I love you? When was the first time or the last time you, you heard them say that to you? What was that like for you? Oh, that must have been really sad that your parents didn't even say, I love you. You know, that impacts kids. And then using that as a frame of like. Are you thinking about how you don't do it with me? Like sometimes it takes these little kind of games before we can get to a place where we feel like we can get that conversation going. But even then, where can we find beauty in the relationship with our [00:54:00] parents? I'm sure if we, you know, really wanted to dive deep into it, we would. You would be able to think of like strengths in your relationship with your parents, ways that they do love you or see you even if it's not what you want. The way that they love you is still a way that they are showing you that they love you. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: When I think about my younger self, I sometimes find myself imagining my mom and dad when they were young, what were they like growing up? How many crushes did my mom have as a teenager? When did she start sneaking cigarettes? And what made her start? Who was there for my dad when he lost his dad as a child who told them they were loved? When was the last time someone asked them about their hopes and dreams? What did they long for? Growing up in Korea with my mom, she often told me her parenting philosophy. [00:55:00] I want us to be like friends. She'd say, she'd tell me stories about how she was always afraid of her mom, how strict my grandma was. How she never got the chance to fully explore her passions and curiosities. One day when I was in elementary school, she just said, you're not going to school today. And instead of taking me to school, she drove me and my sister to a farm outside the city. She told us real life experiences are more important than what you learn in textbooks. She didn't want us to live inside the same box. She'd grown up in. She wanted something different for us. She'd say things like, date as many men as you can before you marry. Travel as much as you can while you're young. Learn to drive as soon as you can. More than anything, she wanted us to be free freer than she ever got to [00:56:00] be. The way my parents love me and the way I love them. It's not something you'd find in some textbook. It's messy. It's complicated. It's nuanced, and it's big. It's so big. It is not the kind of love you see in those Hallmark movies where a white parents hug you and say, I love you at least 15 times a day. But I feel it. I feel it in the everyday moments, like when my mom insists on doing my laundry with her permanently sore back, or when she likes every single thing I post on Instagram. I feel it every time she sees me and says, you're so pretty with genuine awe in her eyes.[00:57:00] Michelle MiJung Kim: If you liked what you heard today, please tell your family. Tell your friends. Tell your people. Subscribe to our show and leave us a review. Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Wanna hear more from me in Sege? Watch the full interview on the I feel that way. Two YouTube channel. And while you're at it, subscribe to our newsletter on our website at www dot I feel that way. Two.com. Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great [00:58:00] night. The post APEX Express – 9.18.25 – I Feel That Way Too appeared first on KPFA.

This uncensored was a doozie! Today we reflect on our K-Drama watching tastes and how they've changed in the almost FOUR YEARS of the Afternoona Delight Podcast. We discuss how we keep our dramas we watch for the pod from feeling like homework. And we dive into our feelings on K-Dramas as adaptations of source material. And we touch on the age old question of how many open browsers and tabs is TOO many open browsers and tabs. Looking for your next romance read? Check out Amy, Lia, and Megan's books to find your next HEA!Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Te Pāti Māori's leader Rāwiri Waititi has finally responded to questions about Tākuta Ferris's controversial race comments, but with a catch, he would only answer question in te reo. It comes after Tākuta Ferris took aim at "Indians, Asians, Black and Pakeha" in an Instagram post two weeks ago, criticising them for campaigning alongside Labour for the Tāmaki Makaurau by-election. His co-leaders apologised - but Mr Ferris has since doubled-down - and now the party's president John Tamihere has weighed in too. Political reporter Tuwhenuaroa Natanahira spoke to Lisa Owen.  

Even the most capable leaders can unintentionally derail their own success. From procrastination and perfectionism to self-doubt and avoiding tough conversations, self-sabotage can impact us all.In this episode, John Wang – author of Big Asian Energy (Penguin Random House, 2025), TEDx speaker, coach, and host of the Big Asian Energy podcast – returns to the podcast unpack how self-sabotage shows up in leadership, and uniquely for Asians and in Asian culture. With clients including Google, Apple, Amazon, and Goldman Sachs, John blends cultural insight with science-backed strategies to help Asian professionals build confidence, visibility, and impact.We explore the links between self-sabotage and imposter syndrome, patterns like self-diminishment and self-censorship, and practical steps to reclaim your leadership potential. Whether you've battled self-doubt or want to lead with more confidence, this conversation is packed with insights to help you break through the ‘bamboo ceiling' and thrive.0:00 Intro03:15 - Self sabotage and its impact on leadership04:38 - The ‘Bamboo Ceiling'11:58 - Imposter syndrome22:05 - Self diminishment, self sacrifice, self criticizing, self censoring, self rejection, self isolating, and self abandonment30:00 - Obligation31:33 - Strategies for overcoming self sabotage35:49 - Debunking the imposter syndrome41:11 - What's next for John42:11 - Where to find JohnVisit John's website - https://www.bigasianenergy.comConnect with John - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-wang-b79ba396/?originalSubdomain=caHosted by Hilda Gan - ca.linkedin.com/in/hildagan Visit us at - peoplebrightconsulting.comFollow usLinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/company/pplbrightTwitter - twitter.com/pplbright Facebook - www.facebook.com/pplbrightInstagram - www.instagram.com/pplbright/ Hilda Gan is a sought-after expert on effective HR strategies, work culture enhancement, and employee engagement. Unique among HR consultants, Hilda combines over 25 years of HR expertise with business acumen and business owner experience.People Bright Consulting is an award-winning HR Management Consulting firm that helps leaders of companies build the foundations for successful hiring, healthy and inclusive work culture, and engaged staff. It starts with listening to our clients and finding pragmatic customized business solutions to HR problems.#LeadershipDevelopment #ImposterSyndrome #SelfConfidence

Bonuses don't end with just the one, as we have yet another fascinating character to introduce to the Background family. What does ageing actually mean in dance? To tackle an issue haven't discussed on this platform, we spoke to a fellow Asian born - Sharon Brach.  Sharon is a highly versatile dancer, instructor, and choreographer on the back of a distinguished career that spans Asia, the US, and Europe. After rigorous training in Manila, she graced prominent stages and appeared on television before moving to the United States, where she refined her artistry at STEPS on Broadway and the Broadway Dance Center. She joined the faculty of the Shirley Martin Dance Company in Los Angeles, taught multiple genres, and coached competitive teams at renowned studios including Bodies in Motion NY, ACT 1 School of Dance, and Dance Arts. Brach is the founder of the Kulmbach Dance Center in Bavaria, Germany, where she also works as a teacher and choreographer. As an author, Brach has self-published several children's books, many of which are bilingual editions to help with English as a Second Language (ESL).Not often do we come across Asians making it in Europe and who also offer such depth to their career outlooks. If you're ever feeling a little too old to dance, think again! Welcome to Bonus Episode 2 of Season 3, Growing Older, Dancing Deeper.Sharon BrachKulmbach Dance CenterUnicorn Books Soundtracks:Background Music Soft Calm - lNPLUSMUSICBirds - Tyler Twombly Poison Ivy Yard Work - Uncle Milk Support the showLike our offers? S2 Summer SALE! Check out our new Dance Masterclass YouTube review Sign up for Dance Masterclass Choreographing Your Dance Career by Janaea Rose Lyn Try Nord VPN Like what we do? Help us grow by Visiting The Background Dancer YouTube Channel Rate and review here Email me at backgrounddancer.jy@gmail.com Answer a survey Sign up here to receive future updates Leave a thought on Facebook and Instagram Join the Facebook group and introduce yourself as a member of our community

If you're a creator or an entrepreneur — I made something for you: https://storytelling-mastery.com/start- ABOUT THIS EPISODE: Poland is often described as one of the most welcoming countries in Europe. But is that true for **all** immigrants?In this solo episode of *Warsaw Confidential*, I dive deep into my own experiences of living in Poland for over a decade, and the stories I've collected from dozens of immigrants on the podcast.Some are welcomed like family. Others are told to “go back to your country.” The reality is more complex: Ukrainians are embraced as neighbors, while Africans, Middle Easterners, and Asians often face suspicion and stereotypes.So what does true welcoming look like? And can Poland get there?This video explores the beauty and the challenges of integration: the kindness, the criticism, the facts about demographics and the economy, and the cultural fears that shape the debate.ℹ️ CONNECT WITH US:

Performance marketing is one of the most popular ways brands try to grow. But here's the problem: too often, leadership decisions create gaps that keep campaigns from reaching their full potential. In this episode, Sonia Thompson sits down with Laura Lee—growth marketing expert, fractional CMO, founder of LL Consulting, and board member of Asians in Advertising—to explore a major miss in performance marketing today. Together, they discuss how decisions around values, customer understanding, and whose voices get prioritized can mean the difference between clicks that fall flat and strategies that drive loyalty and growth. If you want to close the gap, strengthen trust, and ensure your marketing resonates with today's evolving consumer base, this episode is for you. Get the Inclusion & Marketing Newsletter - www.inclusionandmarketing.com/newsletter Laura Lee on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/llee01/ LL Consulting - https://www.linkedin.com/company/teamllconsulting/ Asians In Advertising - https://www.asiansinadvertising.com/

Episode 678: Andrew's favorite Seinfeld meme day of the year is ruined. We'll never forget. How close is Chinatown to Manhattan? Visiting the largest Buc-ee's in the world. Barbara Walters documentary. Peacemaker - season 2. The French Dispatch. Goon and Goon 2. Discovering the month of September. Too many Asians; where are all the Jews? Oak Ridge, TN, WV State Penitentiary, Codenames, and Gabriela's bad driving.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – September 11, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

Te Pati Maori has met with an anti-racism group as the party figures out how to best respond to the latest racially charged outburst from MP Takuta Ferris. Mr Ferris criticised Labour for having "Indians, Asians, Black and Pakeha" campaigning for its candidate Peeni Henare in the Tamaki Makaurau by-election. RNZ political reporter Annneke Smith spoke to Corin Dann.

Piggybacking off an earlier episode about sexual tension, this week Megan and Lia delve into attraction in Kdramas. What makes a character attractive? Do we fall in love with emotionally available characters or swoon for the tortured hero... or both? Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life.★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Te Pati Maori MP Takuta Ferris has doubled down on the controversial comments he made about race during the final days of the Tamaki Makaurau by-election. His latest social media post puts him at odds with his party's earlier apology, and was today roundly condemned by MPs from across the House. Mr Ferris posted on Instagram last week, criticising Labour for having "Indians, Asians, Black and Pakeha" campaign for its candidate, Peeni Henare. Those remarks prompted Te Pati Maori to clarify that its movement has always been for "the people", but in a further post, Mr Ferris has come out swinging at his critics. Tuwhenuaroa Natanahira reports.

12 - We kick off today with legendary journalist and author of a new book ”Confronting Evil”, Bill O'Reilly! Does he still get butterflies on release day? Bill is making headlines for his comments on Mamdani in the NYC Mayor's race. Why is a vote for Zohran a vote for condoning evil? What historical event does this election remind Bill of? Just how evil is Vladimir Putin? Why do we not use the word “evil” enough? What is something readers will be looking for in the book? Why are Illinois' leaders failing them and wasting time arguing with Trump? Which media pundit isn't bringing any opposing views onto their television show? 1215 - Tuco Salamanca is in trouble! 1220 - Brian Stelter deflects from talking about the murder in Charlotte and instead bloviates on the racist comments on social media regarding the situation. Are we valuing crazy people 1230 - PA Senate President Pro Tempore Kim Ward joins us today after the state government decided to side with Republicans regarding what to do about SEPTA funding, in part thanks to Lt. Governor Bradford! How good was the messaging by Republicans on this ordeal? Where do we stand on implementing school choice? How are we hurting our kids by trapping them here in Pennsylvania's public schools? When will Kim join us in Philadelphia? 1245 - Side - person you would not want as your boss. 1250 - Does the governor of New Jersey have the power to end the plastic bag ban? 1 - Which big music acts are coming to town? Who is the biggest? As the White House plans to debrief the public on the Charlotte murder, what can be done about getting people like the assailant off the street? 110 - Why does there need to be a face of crimes like this one on the train? Your calls. 115 - Dom Giordano will not serve white wine! 120 - Is there BYOB in South Carolina? Your calls. 135 - John McGrody of the Philadelphia FOP joins us today. Is The Inquirer correct in reporting there's a “blue divide” within the city's police force? Are there journalists looking to expose how much police funerals cost? Why has 1210 been a beacon for the local FOP? 155 - Finishing the hour. 2 - Why are Asians the “inconvenient minority” to the Philadelphia public school system? 215 - Dom's Money Melody! 220 - Where is Ellen DeGeneres when we need her most? Returning to the voting battles within the Commonwealth and beyond. 235 - Will we get new files regarding who was behind 9/11? Your calls. 240 - The Charlotte train assailant has been federally charged by Pam Bondi. 250 - The Lightning Round!

2 - Why are Asians the “inconvenient minority” to the Philadelphia public school system? 215 - Dom's Money Melody! 220 - Where is Ellen DeGeneres when we need her most? Returning to the voting battles within the Commonwealth and beyond. 235 - Will we get new files regarding who was behind 9/11? Your calls. 240 - The Charlotte train assailant has been federally charged by Pam Bondi. 250 - The Lightning Round!

I have been wondering when the penny would drop and yesterday might have been it. There were two stories on Chris Hipkins' problems with the Māori Party. For all the energy the media wants to put into Chris Luxon and his future, the very obvious other side of the coin, if they ever wanted to explore it, lies in the very real issue for Labour in even coming close to putting together the numbers for a government. The genesis of the coverage came out of the Takuta Ferris post on all the "Asians and blacks" and other racist bile he managed to pedal in the lead up to last Saturday's debacle of a by-election. The Māori Party had to apologise, and obviously Hipkins had to face the growing reality that these folks are crazy and not remotely interested in being helpful, useful, or part of a coalition. Why this hasn't occurred to more in the media before now, I have no idea, other than to offer the suggestion it may just be a bit inconvenient for them and their agendas and its far easier to help build on the so-called demise of the Prime Minister. But yesterday we got there at last, through simple questions: how does Labour even begin to form a deal with the Māori Party? This is one for their coverage of the polls too. You will note polls are presented as simple centre-left/centre-right numbers. A collection of parties added up and the headline is formed from the result of the maths. In this week's Curia poll, there was to be a change of Government, apparently. But each time it involves the assumption, and what an assumption it is, that Labour and the Greens and the Māori Party are one group and no such thing has ever happened. Let me make this prediction right now: it never will. So add the numbers of likely groupings and you are left with Labour and, maybe, the Greens. Do they get to Government? No, they don't. So Hipkins, given it's his issue, not the Māori Party's, has to answer the very simple question: will you work with the Māori Party, and if so, how? What jobs do they get? What policies of theirs are you implementing? Given he can't answer that and, dare I suggest, won't, he needs to grow his party support to about 40%, which he can't, and won't, either. Which is why he is not winning the election next year. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Spoilers Warning! If you haven't finished reading the 900 pages of The Hallmarked Man and don't want to hear details from the novel, you will not enjoy this conversation about Strike8.John read the latest Strike-Ellacott novel by Thursday morning using the pre-publication head start, the Robert Glenister audiobook dropped early Tuesday morning, a bootleg epub version on his wife's iPad, and the codex hardcover that arrived at 5:00 on the day of release. Nick didn't finish until early Saturday but was already half-way through his second reading via audiobook by Sunday night.John didn't especially enjoy reading the book as fast as he did; Nick was frustrated that he could not read it faster than he did. Both were delighted by Rowling's work and are looking forward to the coming weeks of re-reading and ‘Tools, Springs, and Threads' analysis of its artistry and meaning.In this week's conversation, they touch on fandom disappointment with the new book before discussing how three predictions they'd made about Hallmarked Man played out, the three Real World targets of Rowling's wrath in her current work, John's preliminary work on the novel's epigraphs (and the Aurora Leigh-esque forgotten tome of epic poetry that may be Strike8's Rosmersholm or Faerie Queene), and what's next in their reading of Cormoran Strike.As is their wont, Nick and John refer to ideas and to people that Serious Readers will want to check up on or learn more about. Here are a selection of links to many of these subjects with their apology for those they've missed and their invitation to share counter-sources or requests for other links.They thank everyone who listens to these Lake and Shed conversations, those who join in the discussions in the comment thread below (how was your first reading of Hallmarked Man?), and especially for our paid subscribers who were polled for their questions and concerns last week for our consideration before we put our notes together.Hogwarts Professor is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Anteros-Eros Distinction in Cormoran StrikeCormoran & Robin and Odysseus & Penelope (Joanne Gray, 2019)I found out that this is actually the statue of Anteros—not Eros as it is popularly called. Anteros is the subject of the Shaftesbury Memorial in Piccadilly Circus, London, where he symbolizes the selfless philanthropic love of the Earl of Shaftesbury for the poor. The memorial is sometimes given the name The Angel of Christian Charity and is popularly mistaken for Eros, cf., Lloyd & Mitchinson (2006) The Book of General Ignorance “Because of the bow and the nudity… everybody assumed it was Eros, the Greek god of love.”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anteroshttps://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/ErosAnteros.htmlEros is the brother of Anteros and also pretty much the opposite of Eros.Reading Rowling at Four Levels (John Granger, 2021)Robin and Cormoran, even if you want to include Sam Barclay, are not a soul exteriorization akin to Harry, Hermione, and Ron. The psychomachia of the Strike novels is built on the Shakespearean soul-Spirit romantic model rather than the Platonic-Patristic body-mind-spirit soul triptych of ancient, Medieval, and contemporary film and written fiction. In this model, the man and woman lede players take the part of soul and spirit, Coomaraswamy's duo sunt in homine human and divine aspects, either as fixed roles as in Othello and The Tempest or in relation to the other, each being soul and embracing the other as supra-natural as in Romeo and Juliet and Antony and Cleopatra (see Lings and Pogson for that). Rowling's embedded models for this exteriorized drama of human sanctification are the myths of ‘Leda and the Swan‘ and ‘Psyche and Cupid‘ and the psychomachia spiritual allegories of Eros and Anteros, true and false Cupid, within Spenser's Faerie Queen, the Redcrosse Knight and Una as well as Britomart and Artegell.On Valentine Longcaster as the Erotic Cupid (Strike being the Anterotic Cupid)Valentine Longcaster is a hilarious cryptonym for Cupid, for whom Valentine is a second name (see the post on Valentine's Day in the Psyche and Eros post) and ‘Longcaster' is a reference to his weapon of choice, the bow and arrow of the god of love. He pricks Strike at the direction of Venus-Charlotte, in some myths his mother, in others a lover and cousin or brother (murky waters!), and sets in motion the long-range plan of the envious ex to destroy Robin and Cormoran's budding relationship.Add ‘Valentine Longcaster' to the pile of evidence for this particular backdrop and let's continue to look for parallels and links Rowling has playfully embedded in the psycho-spiritual, neo-mythological allegory of the soul's journey to perfection, and specifically the souls of women.For much more on this Eros-Anteros distinction and its importance in grasping the allegorical meaning of the Strike-Ellacott relationship, see Ink Black Heart: Strike as Zeus to Robin's Leda and Cupid to Mads' Psyche (John Granger, 2022)Fandom Response to Hallmarked Man:From the Reddit r/Cormoran Strike page:Hogwarts Professor Predictions for Hallmarked Man:* Charlotte was Murdered (Nick Jeffery), Really, It Wasn't a Suicide (John Granger)‘Charlotte' mentioned twice as often in Strike 8 as ‘Cormoran' and Valentine Longcaster's interview with Robin Ellacott has a major ‘tell' at its finish (cf. p 451, ch 62).* Robin Ellacott is Sterile (John Granger), Rowling Studies podcastEctopic Pregnancy consequent to PID and Murphy Pregnancy Trap leading to de facto sterility prediction appears as story-line in Chapter 3 of Hallmarked Man* The Baby in the LakeHallmarked Man is Rowling's ‘Baby Novel.'Rowling's Three Targets in Hallmarked Man's Surface Story* The Ideologically Captured Police and Media and the ‘False Religion' of Freemasonry's Control of the Police in Hallmarked ManRowling's Week of publication tweets and retweets about UK police taking the side of Trans Activists and against Gender Critical feminists: * https://x.com/iain_masterton/status/1963545948711219320 (JKR retweet)* https://x.com/joannaccherry/status/1963547738722668666 (ditto)* https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1963528602164555894* https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1963297139905167722* https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1962847107343139014* https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1963465628053848363* https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1963299236365140305* https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1963298726417457300* https://x.com/soniasodha/status/1963185964630647295 (JKR retweet; nota bene)* https://x.com/Jebadoo2/status/1962959405160239135 (JKR retweet)* https://x.com/joannaccherry/status/1962930361035374703 (retweet)* https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1962932333025067268* https://x.com/JohannLamont/status/1963658557007749364 (retweet)Boris Johnson and Lord BranfootBoris Johnson hosting the show. 2003 (YouTube)Boris Johnson's Personal Image or Brand (Wikipedia)Max Hastings referred to Johnson's public image as a "façade resembling that of P. G. Wodehouse's Gussie Fink-Nottle, allied to wit, charm, brilliance and startling flashes of instability",[4] while political scientist Andrew Crines stated Johnson displayed "the character of a likable and trustworthy individual with strong intellectual capital".[5] Private Eye editor Ian Hislop has defined him as "Beano Boris" due to his perceived comical nature, saying: "He's our Berlusconi ... He's the only feel-good politician we have, everyone else is too busy being responsible."[6] To the journalist Dave Hill, Johnson was "a unique figure in British politics, an unprecedented blend of comedian, conman, faux subversive showman and populist media confection".* “Mentally Ill Islamophobes”2021-22 Census ~ Islam in the UK Demographics: 6% UK, 6.7% England, 15% LondonUK 'Grooming Gangs': Deriving Per-Capita Offence Rates by EthnicityInstitute for Social Policy Research (UK) An independent, data-driven social-policy research institute focusing on UK political affairs.We therefore conclude that consistent with widespread public perceptions, whilst available evidence is not exhaustive, the mean rate derived from four of the most comprehensive studies available to date on share of CSEGG crimes by ethnicity does affirm the picture that Asians and Blacks are overrepresented in such crimes. Curiously, with much of the attention devoted to “Asians” (predominantly Pakistani gangs), it is notable that Blacks are similarly overrepresented, with our weighted rate providing limited evidence of even greater over-representation than Asians.Please note, however —For the CEOP study that ISPR use, footnote 1 shows the selection criteria, excluding all abuse initiated in a familial or fraternal (house based) relationship:"Where “localised-grooming” is defined as: “a form of sexual exploitation – previously referred to as ‘on street grooming' in the media - where children have been groomed and sexually exploited by an offender, having initially met in a location outside their home. this location is usually in public, such as a park, cinema, on the street or at a friend's house. Offenders often act together, establishing a relationship with a child or children before sexually exploiting them. some victims of ‘street grooming' may believe that the offender is in fact an older ‘boyfriend'; these victims introduce their peers to the offender group who might then go on to be sexually exploited as well. abuse may occur at a number of locations within a region and on several occasions. ‘Localised grooming' was the term used by CEOP in the intelligence requests issued to police forces and other service agencies in order to define the data we wished to receive.” (footnote 1, p. 7)"They also exclude the 39% of cases where race was not included in the data. It would be sensible to assume that ethnicity was not recorded when the ethnicity of both perpetrators and the victim were the UK default.Removing the selection criteria shows that people of Asian ethnicity are under-represented in child sex abuse cases compared to White British: https://www.csacentre.org.uk/app/uploads/2024/02/Trends-in-Offical-Data-2022-23-FINAL.pdfJulie Blindel pushes back on the ‘Grooming Gang as Muslim problem' narrative:To say that the only reason the police were complacent when it came to the grooming gangs of Rochdale, Rotherham, Telford, and elsewhere was because (some of) these men were Pakistani Muslim, is madness. The ethnicity and religion of these men is relevant, but not in the way the racists would have us believe. It is relevant because it was seen as a phenomena perpetrated because of ethnicity as opposed to male violence towards females. Look at it any other way betrays the vast majority of girls that fall prey to these men.The Epigraph Authors — and a hidden Book Behind the Book?* Albert Pike, Confederate States of America General* Louise Freeman Davis on John Oxenham's Maid of the Silver Sea* Aurora Leigh (Elizabeth Barret Browning) and Ink Black Heart* The Ring and the Book (Robert Browning)* Pompilia: A Feminist Reading of 'The Ring and the Book'Hogwarts Professor is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to Hogwarts Professor at hogwartsprofessor.substack.com/subscribe

Te Pāti Māori has apologised after one of its MPs attacked Labour's Tāmaki Makaurau candidate on Instagram. Tākuta Ferris posted a photo of Labour MPs and volunteers posing with a Peeni Henare billboard, saying it was mind-blowing to see "Indians, Asians, Black and Pakeha" campaigning to "take a Māori seat away from a Māori". Te Pāti Māori's co-leaders have asked Mr Ferris to remove the post and apologised for any hurt it caused. Political reporter Lillian Hanly spoke to Lisa Owen.

Asians and Asian Americans are numerous within the classical music industry, but their identities are often politicized and racialized in this Eurocentric musical genre. For the third episode of Obbligato on APEX Express, Isabel Li discusses this intersection with Mari Yoshihara, Professor of American Studies at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa and Professor at the Center for Global Education at the University of Tokyo, Japan; author of many books, including Musicians from a Different Shore: Asians and Asian Americans in Classical Music (2007) and Dearest Lenny: Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro (2019). Tonight's episode features music by Chinese American composer Zhou Tian. To learn more about Mari and her work, please visit her website: https://www.mariyoshihara.com/index.html  Musicians from a Different Shore: https://tupress.temple.edu/books/musicians-from-a-different-shore-2 Dearest Lenny: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/dearest-lenny-9780190465780?cc=jp&lang=en&  Transcript  Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.    00:00:53 Isabel Li  Good evening. You're listening to KPFA 94.1 FM. My name is Isabel Li and I'm delighted to be hosting a new edition of Obbligato on Apex Express, which is a semimonthly segment specifically about AAPI identities in classical music. Tonight's guest is someone I have been incredibly excited to speak to because her writings have actually very much informed my studies and research. In fact, her books are exactly about the subject matter of Obbligato. I am honored to be speaking to Mario Yoshihara, Professor of American Studies at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa and Professor at the Center for Global Education at the University of Tokyo, Japan; author of many books, including Musicians from a Different Shore: Asians and Asian Americans in Classical Music, published in 2007, and Dearest Lenny: Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro, which was published in 2019. Welcome to Obbligato on Apex Express. Mari, how are you doing?  00:01:55 Mari Yoshihara  I'm doing fine. Thank you for having me.  00:01:58 Isabel Li  Of course, my first question for you is how do you identify and what communities are you a part of?  00:02:06 Mari Yoshihara  Oh well, that's actually a little bit complicated I am. I am a Japanese woman who have spent a little bit over well, maybe not more than a little more than half of my life in the United States. Born in New York but raised in Tokyo, educated mostly in Japan, but also earned my graduate degrees in the United States and most of my academic career has been in Hawaii, so I've been in American academia for almost 30 years now, but I also have a dual appointment with the University of Tokyo in Japan. So I split my time between Japan and Hawaii now.  00:02:54 Isabel Li  Can you tell us a little bit about your work and your books? I had a chance to read Musicians from a Different Shore, but how would you summarize your research to someone who might not have read your book?  00:03:04 Mari Yoshihara  So I am a scholar of American studies, which is an interdisciplinary field that has anything to do with America broadly defined. And within that, my area of expertise is about, well, I would say I'm a scholar of US cultural history. US Asian relations, mostly US, East Asian relations, especially in the cultural dimension, cultural studies, gender studies, Asian American studies, etc. And so I have written a number of books, both in English and Japanese, but the one that you're referring to, Musicians from a Different Shore, is a book that I did research for more than 20 years ago and was published in 2007. It's a study of Asians and Asian Americans and classical music. So it was partly historical in that I examined the ways. which Western music, so-called western classical music, was introduced to East Asia and how also East Asians became have become so successful and prominent in this field that is generally considered a white European elite art form, so it was partly historical, but then the rest of the book was based on my ethnographic field work and interviews among Asians and Asian Americans in classical music looking at how well who these people are in the first place and then also how musicians, Asian and Asian musicians themselves, understand the relationship between their racial and cultural identity on the one hand, and their practice of Western classical music on the other, so that was my study.   And then I also wrote another book called Dearest Lenny. It's about—the subtitle is Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro. It's about Leonard Bernstein's relationship with two very special individuals in Japan. And through that story, I interweave an account of various things. For one thing, how Leonard Bernstein became a world maestro and also the relationship between politics and arts, gender, sexuality, art and commerce, etcetera, etcetera. So that was my most recent book published in English and then, I'm sure we'll talk more about this, but I'm currently doing a follow up research on the on Musicians from a Different Shore, taking into account all the changes that have been taking place in the classical music industry in the United States in the past, I would say five years or so especially so that's my that's the abbreviated version of my research.  00:05:55 Isabel Li  That's really cool, and I also want to ask you about these changes, if you can talk a little bit about the classical music world. I feel like classical music is one of those genres that seems to be unchanging on the outside. But as a scholar of classical music, what types of changes have you observed that has influenced how AAPI identities play into this world?  00:06:18 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah, I think especially in the last, I would say, yeah, 5 to 10 years, especially in the last five years, classical music industry in the United, I mean I say specifically in the United States because I don't see the similar kind of changes taking place in Japan where I'm currently located. And I also don't really know the situation in Europe. But the field of classical music in the US is changing. I think most significantly because of movements like the Black Lives Matter movement and also with the onset of COVID and the rise of anti Asian hate, there's been a lot more heightened awareness about how issues of race and also class shapes classical music. So there's a lot more vibrant conversations and debates about these topics in the industry and also in terms of AAPI community, are the biggest changes, the biggest change I'm seeing is that Asian and Asian American musicians themselves are being a lot more vocal and active in issues of race and racism in the field and there I've encountered many Asian and Asian American musicians who have, for instance, you know organized events or organizations, or taken up various forms of advocacy and activism on these issues. So compared to, say, 20 years ago, 20, 25 years ago, when I was doing the original research, I see a lot more kind of, you know, explicit awareness and awareness and articulation of these issues by Asian and Asian American musicians themselves.  00:08:12 Isabel Li  That's really interesting. Just because classical music is also one of those genres, that doesn't seem like a genre that most people explicitly associate with politics or activism. What are some examples of these, like activist movements that you've observed within the Asian American community in classical music?  00:08:32 Mari Yoshihara  So for instance, some Asian and Asian American musicians are are becoming a lot more vocal about the actual like racism or sexism that they have themselves experienced, or that they witness in the industry, like in in schools, conservatories, orchestras, opera companies, etc. Either through the media or you know their own writing, and also like speaking up within the organizations that they work in. So that's one. There are other kinds of advocacy and activism in that they demand more diverse repertoire, and I think the repertoire is in terms of the industry industry changes. That's the area that's changing the most, the the kind of repertoire that many orchestras for instance perform have become a lot more– I mean overall it's still very white, European centered– but in terms of the actual numbers of pieces that are performed, works by living, composers and composers of color, women composers, etcetera. That is significantly increased in the last 10 years and that is, you know significantly to do with the advocacy and activism on the part of, you know, artists of color.  So yeah, so things like that and then, you know, many Asian, Asian American artists are doing their own programming, for instance, like event organizing programming. So yeah, those are the areas that I see changes. I see things happening that I didn't see 25 years ago.  00:10:20 Isabel Li  Definitely. I remember reading your book, and your book has been published since 2007, so a lot of changes have happened since then. But in general, when you did your research at first, what how would you summarize the dynamic of Asian identities, Asian American identities in this very Eurocentric field, it's a juxtaposition of two different cultures and identities that a lot of people also observe in orchestras. There's a large population of Asian and Asian American musicians, conductors just in general. It's a very large population, but yet this identity is still not quite represented in media. It's not quite seen, so talk to us a bit about this juxtaposition and how you observe these dynamics in your research.  00:11:10 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah. So. The thing is, Asians and Asian Americans are indeed numerically overrepresented in classical music, in the sense that compared to the general public, the the the proportion of Asians and Asian Americans in the overall US population, the number of Asian and Asian Americans in classical music indexed by things like the student body at major conservatories or membership roster of US orchestras, etcetera, Asians and Asian Americans percentage is higher than the general population, right. So in terms of the numbers, Asians and Asian Americans are, quote unquote overrepresented. But those numbers are not reflected in the actual like voice, power and influence that they have in the industry.   So that was my finding back 2025 years ago and I think that's still true today. Also, the thing about Asian, Asian American musicians is that it's a racialized category. They are seeing and treated as Asian. It's this racial category. But their identities and experiences as Asians is not at all uniform, right?   Some of these Asian musicians are Asian Americans, like multi generational Asian Americans whose parents or grandparents or great grandparents etcetera have come to the United States and they themselves are U.S. citizens. So that's one group.   Many Asian musicians working in the United States are people who were born and raised in Asia, places like China or South Korea, Japan, etcetera, and came to the United States as international students to study music, often at the college level, college conservatory level, so obviously these people have very different sense of identity and experience as Asians compared to say, you know 3rd, 4th generation Chinese Americans or 1.5 Korean Americans.   There are other people who live in the United States because they were very talented, very young musicians, and the whole whole family immigrated to the United States specifically for their music education. So Midori, the famous violinist, Midori is a case, example of this, but there are also a number of other, especially among Koreans and Chinese. There are families, the whole family immigrated to the United States when the child was a very promising musician at age 7 or something. So that's one group. They too have a different sense of identity and experience of Asians than the two former groups that I that I talked about.   There are other people who also came to the United States because not because of the music education, but because of their parents' profession, for instance. And they have transnational kind of family ties and you know, they move, they go back and forth between US and Asia, for instance. And then there are also mixed roots families where one parent is Asian and the other is non Asian.   And then there are also Asians who were born and raised in Europe for other parts of the globe and then came to the United States, for either personal or professional reasons.   So in other words, they're all Asians in terms of their racial identity. But what that means is really quite diverse and their experience as Asian and Asian American musicians is also quite diverse. So it's not as if you know, just because they're Asian, they share some kind of experience and identities around which they coalesce. So that's, you know, that was true 20, 25 years ago. And I think that's still true today.  More and more Asian musicians are coming to the United States to study, study or work in classical music, but especially because of this, like new influence, this Asian category is becoming even more diverse. However, because of the COVID, you know the rise of Anti Asian hate during the COVID pandemic, I think that heightened the awareness of, you know, these different kinds of Asians, the heightened awareness that they are Asians. First and foremost, you know, in, in that in the sense of being racialized in the United States. So I have talked with a number of musicians, Asians and Asian American musicians, who did not really, hadn't thought about their Asianness before. It wasn't at the forefront of their identity before, but during this rise of anti Asian hate it they became they basically became more politicized. You know, they had quite a politicized language and awareness to think about race and racism especially against Asians and Asian Americans.  00:16:31 Isabel Li  Yeah, that's a great point. It is a such a diverse group and there are so many different identities, even within just the Asian American framework AAPI, as a label is very, very diverse. And that applies to classical music as well. But I think there's also this social perception of Asian and Asian Americans as a group that also relates to the model minority stereotype that's historically been present and, for example, a lot of people might think of, like a young Asian or Asian American musician as being like a prodigy because they are technically skilled at their instrument, where like these social perceptions that exist both in media and in the culture around us, why do you think that is?  00:17:15 Mari Yoshihara  Well, that as you said, there is a model minority myth and there is a stereotype of Asians and Asian Americans as being very studious and diligent, but also quiet, right? I mean, they just quietly follow, like, obedient, obediently follow the instructions and that translates in the field of music as the stereotype that Asian musicians are technically very proficient but artistically non expressive. I mean, that's a very common stereotype that yeah, you know, practically any Asian, Asian Americans in classical music have been subjected to, you know, quite regularly and frequently. And I think that, yeah, that just comes with the overall kind of racial stereotype of Asians and Asians and Asian Americans in American society at large. And also the fact that, you know, classical music, especially in terms of instrumental performance, it is an area that is, it's something that is, indeed, technically very demanding, right? You need many, many years of disciplined training and a lot of practice. And there is a myth of merit– well, no, not entirely a myth– but there is this this very, you know, dearly held faith in meritocracy in classical music. The idea that if you have the chops you will be rewarded, you will be recognized and you know, no matter what kind of great artistic idea you might have, if you can't play the notes, you can't play the notes. That kind of ethos of meritocracy is particularly strong in classical music because of the technical demands of the genre, and that and that kind of, you know, goes hand in hand with the model minority methods for Asian Americans.  00:19:20 Isabel Li  Definitely. That's really interesting and another part of your book that was quite fascinating to me when I first read it was chapter 3. You talked about the intersection of gender as well as, you know, racial identity in classical music. The chapter is called Playing Gender and you talk about, I think at large don't necessarily associate classical music with a discipline that provides a stable job. It is an art form and there is kind of an uphill battle for artists in a sense like a starving artist myth there. We're not even a myth. Like if there's a starving artist image, whereas the image of a very successful classical musician there's this duality that you also mentioned in one of your other chapters about class. So what really interested me in for this chapter was that there was this intersection of power in classical music of who would go down the path that might not be traditionally as successful. How do you think gender dynamics play into this and how do you think they might have shifted within the last two decades or so?  00:20:20 Mari Yoshihara  Huh. I'm not sure if it has shifted all that much in the last two decades, but as you said, because music I mean, not just classical music, but music. Like, you know, arts in general is a field that is very like economically insecure in terms of career, right?   But at the same time. Classical music is associated with kind of, you know, bourgeois identity and just kind of overall cultivation and so, many Asian, Asian American parents are very eager to send their kids to, say, piano lessons, violin lessons, cello lessons, etcetera. To, you know, give them a well-rounded education and also because it is considered useful tool, you know, when you're going to college and stuff like, you know being, you know, being able to show that you're very talented violinist, for instance, is believed to help your college application.  So there's this, you know, both stereotype and reality that like, you know, places like Julliard Pre-College, very competitive, you know, school, like music education program for kids is filled with Asian, Asian American, you know, students and their parents who are waiting, waiting for them to come out of school.   So there's that. But how gender plays into this is that while both men and women are do study music at a young age. When it comes to, you know, choosing say, college, like what they would, what they would pursue at the college level, far fewer male students tend to choose music as their college major or go to conservatory and pursue it as a as a career. But I think it's both their own choice. And also especially for Asian and Asian Americans, like parental pressure to not pursue music professionally because of, you know, financial insecurity.   So there's that, and also how that plays into the actual experiences of Asian, Asian Americans musicians who do study music is that I have heard from a number of female Asian musicians that either their peers or especially their teachers are doubtful that they are actually serious about music. There is a stereotype that, you know, say for instance, Japanese or Korean female students at Juilliard School, Manhattan School or whatever, they are there because they, you know, they want to study music and then find a good husband and marry, you know, a lawyer or doctor or engineer or something. [laughs] And and not that that doesn't happen. But that's a stereotype of, you know, that's a racialized and gender stereotype that comes from these, you know, gender and class and racialized dynamics.  00:23:35 Isabel Li  And just for clarification, is the classical music world at large still a male dominated field?  00:23:41 Mari Yoshihara  Yes. Oh yes. Definitely. I mean, it depends on the segment of you know, I mean classical music is itself quite diverse. So if you look at, for instance, the string section, especially the violin section of the New York Philharmonic for instance, you will find that like, I think the majority of those violin players are Asian women, perhaps. But if you look at say for instance, the Faculty of Conservatories or music directors and major orchestras and said, I mean still very male dominated.  00:24:23 Isabel Li  Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I like how your book also has so many different layers for each chapter. So Chapter 3 was about the gender intersection with this, with this identity, and Chapter 4, was it Chapter 4, I believe it was about class, Class Notes, and you've already mentioned a little bit about how class plays into the perception of music, how class influences gender even. But there's a statement in there that you said that, “it's misleading to characterize Asian musicians as just coming from the upper middle class.” And it makes sense that people would think of musicians coming from this economic bracket, because classical music is an in and of itself a very kind of expensive undertaking. You need so many lessons, so many instruments. But tell us why this statement would be misleading.  00:25:15 Mari Yoshihara  Because I mean, first of all, most of the overwhelmed, I would say overwhelming majority of the Asian, Asian American musicians that I interviewed come from middle class backgrounds, many of them from so-called like professional executive class backgrounds in, meaning that their parents hold these professional executive positions, right. And that's why they were able to afford advanced musical studies from a fairly young age. They need, you know, sustained and disciplined and often costly, you know, lessons, you know, competitions, etcetera, auditions, travel, etcetera. So that's for sure, yeah.   At the same time, there are also Asian musicians who come from less privileged backgrounds, you know, immigrant families who have, because quite a few. I mean overall Asian American population, many immigrants experience downward social mobility upon immigrating to the United States because of, you know, oftentimes linguistic barriers or you know, or plain old racism. And so you're not Asian families that immigrate to the United States, like, for instance, if the parents have professional positions back in South Korea, oftentimes they become, you know, for instance, you know, small business owners and they experience downward social mobility. I mean, that's a very common scenario. Yeah, so now all Asian, Asian American musicians grow up in a privileged environment.  00:27:06 Isabel Li  Definitely a great point. Now before we move on to some discussions about Mari's research. First of all, thank you for tuning in to Obbligato on APEX Express, we'll be taking a short music break and as mentioned earlier, a great way to increase diversity within classical music is to uplift works by living composers. If you're listening to my first.  00:27:26 Isabel Li  Episode 2 months ago, you'll know that I featured music by Chinese American composer Zhou Tian. I'm happy to say that coming up next is one of Zhou's compositions inspired by a trip to Italy. This is a piece called Hidden Grace performed by the Formosa Trio.  27:45 – COMP MUSIC – Hidden Grace  00:35:34 Isabel Li  That was a piece called Hidden Grace, composed by Zhou Tian for a fascinating instrumentation of flute, Viola and heart coming up for our second piece. In this interview, break another movement by Zhou Tian, the third movement of his double concerto for violin and Viola, called Rendezvous.  35:58 – COMP MUSIC – Double Concerto for Violin and Viola, III. Rendezvous  00:41:09 Isabel Li  Noah Bendix-Balgley on violin, Shanshan Yao on viola, and the Hangzhou Philharmonic, playing the third and final movement of Zhou Tian's Double Concerto for violin and viola. So back to the conversation with Professor Mari Yoshihara.  00:41:25 Isabel Li  As you also mentioned before, you're working on an updated version of Musicians from a Different Shore. Can you talk–I don't know how much you can talk about your, like upcoming projects, but are you using similar research methods to what you've done before using ethnographic field work? You've mentioned the new changing dynamics of classical music in the United States with new waves of activism and awareness. What are some new topics of your chapters that you might focus on? So for your 2007 publication, you talked about your gender and class and how these intersect with identity. Are there any new things that you're drawing upon here?  00:42:02 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah. So I'm using basically the same research method. I'm interviewing actually some of the same people that appeared in Musicians from a Different Shore. Some people kept in touch with over the years, I've gone back to them and interviewed them to see the trajectories of their careers since the first time I interviewed them. But then I've also interviewed a bunch of other, you know, new musicians that I'm speaking with for the first time. So it's essentially an interview and ethnographic fieldwork-based research.  I told you earlier about I think one of the biggest changes is, as I said before, the activism and advocacy on the part of Asian, Asian American musicians themselves. So I have one chapter about that. Like, what? How? What kinds of advocacy and activism they're engaged in.   Another big change that I'm seeing is that compared to 20 years ago, there are a lot more Asian musicians in the field of opera.  00:43:01 Isabel Li  Ohh yeah.  00:43:02 Mari Yoshihara  Uh. Both as singers. Yeah, many of them singers, but also in other, you know, like for instance opera, you know, pianist for opera or be opera directors, et cetera. There are many more Asians in this particular field than what I saw 20 years ago. And I talked about this a little bit in my first book, but opera is a very particular kind of field within classical music.   How race plays into opera is very different from other areas of classical music because it's a theatrical art form. It's visually oriented, you know art form. And because singers have to be cast in order to, you know, sing on stage. So the racial politics in opera, you know, unfolds very differently from, say, for pianists or cellists or conductors or or composers.   So I now have a whole chapter about opera, especially Madame Butterfly, that this very fraught work, you know, opera that many Asian and Asian Americans have love hate relationships. A lot of pigeon-holing that happens in that through that opera. But also, production of new opera by Asian and Asian American artists, composers, directors, singers, etcetera. So I have a whole chapter about that.   And then I also will have another chapter about, you know, what it means to, you know, sit at the table, basically. Like stand on the podium and sit at the table, stand on the podium. Not only, I mean I will, I will have a whole discussion about Asian and Asian Americans conductors, but not only in that literal sense of, you know, standing at the podium, but like being at the table like in other words, not only, Asian and Asian American musicians playing music that are given to them and they are assigned to them that they're hired to play, but also having a real voice in the organizational and institutional dimensions of classical music industry. So the kinds of people, Asians, who are in these positions more executive positions with decision making power what their experiences are like. I'm going to have a chapter about that.   So those are some of my ideas. I'm still in the middle of the project, so I can't. I can't see the whole picture, but those are some of my current ideas.  00:45:48 Isabel Li  I see. And do you have an idea of when this book will be published or an updated version?  00:45:54 Mari Yoshihara  Well [laughs], my goal rather ambitious goal is to have it published in 2027, because that would be 20 years since Musicians from a Different Shore, so that would be ideal if I can make that.  00:46:08 Isabel Li  Well, yeah. Nice. That's really exciting, definitely. I will also kind of bridge, I guess my part of the research into this part of the interview, since I'd love to talk to you a little bit more about how classical music in general is portrayed in media.   So as I've introduced myself before, I had a back, I have a background in media studies as well as music history and theory. And what was really interesting to me in my senior thesis while I was doing research for that was I coined this term and it could just be loosely associated with the genre of film. But it's the “classical music film.” So think of any narrative fictional film you can think of with a classical musician in there. So it could be like Amadeus, where I think of like Tár. If you watch Tár like a lot of these depictions are quite understandably white and European, but they my senior thesis I've never really seen any depictions of Asian American or Asian classical musicians? I was wondering if you have ever watched a film like that, or could maybe talk a bit about maybe the lack of representation in media, how media plays into how people perceive classical music as a genre as a whole.  00:47:23 Mari Yoshihara  That is a very interesting question. I think you know, because of the stereotype of Asian and Asian American model minority and model minority stereotype often is associated with, you know, violin or piano-playing Asian American kids, I think. Asian, Asian American characters who are, you know, these kind of musical classical music geniuses appear here and there. But the ones that center on such a character as the main, you know, like the protagonist, come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've seen. I mean, I've seen several Korean dramas, you know, character, but those are Korean dramas, not Asian American, so more American works with Asian classical musicians…  00:48:21 Isabel Li  And I think also classical music as a genre is. It's interesting because classical music is also kind of underrepresented. It's not quite in the mainstream. And then one of my final questions for you is I do also want to take a second to acknowledge that your book was actually one of the only books that I could find about this topic. I think there are not that many other books about Asian and Asian Americans in classical music. I think there are a few other books and a few and definitely some papers that talk about this, but what got you interested in this field? And I don't know if you think there's a scarcity of information, but do you think there's relative scarcity of information about this topic?  00:49:01 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah. So how I got into it is. So I was a pretty serious student of piano when I was a child. That's like, yeah, that really kind of preoccupied my childhood and adolescence. But then I, for various reasons I ended up not going to a music Conservatory and became an academic.   And then once I entered academia and became a scholar of American studies, all I was studying was like race, gender, class. I mean, that's what  we do in American studies. And my first book, which was originally my doctoral dissertation, was a cultural history of orientalism and white women. So that was a study of the intersections of race and gender and to some extent class in American history.   So once I finished that book, I was thinking about what projects to work on next. And I happened to turn on the TV, and it just so happens that the Vienna Phil New Year's concert, conducted by Seiji Ozawa was playing on the TV and that was sort of my “aha” moment because I had always known or, you know, kind of generally aware that Asians and Asian Americans are, if not necessarily overrepresented, but, you know, they're quite numerous, you know. They're present. Their numerical presence is quite notable in classical music that is often associated with white, you know, European culture, elite culture.  So I was kind of curious about that phenomenon, but I hadn't really thought too much about it until I watched Seiji Ozawa were conducting the Vienna Phil. And that's when I thought, well, maybe I can kind of combine my classical music background and my academic training in studies of race, gender, class into this project. So that's when I decided to work on. You know, this topic of Asians and Asian Americans, classical music.  I think the reason that there hadn't been at least a book-length study on the topic until my book is that for one thing, classical music is considered to be kind of a very abstract absolute form of music. This ethos that it is kind of transcends– that it is a universal, transcendental kind of genre, that is sort of above things like politics or race or gender. Like it shouldn't matter that these, you know, individual identity, racialized gender identity shouldn't matter vis-à-vis the universalism of classical music. I mean that kind of ethos is very strong in this particular genre of music. I think that has a lot to do with it.   And also the study of classical music until rather recently, like musicological study of classical music, really tended to be focused on the study of composers and their works, right? It was the textual that, like it, was an analysis of Beethoven Symphony or, you know, Bach Fugues, etcetera. Yeah. It was really focused on the study of the score, the study of the composer's ideas, as reflected in the score, I mean that was the centerpiece of musicological approach to classical music.  And so sort of more sociological anthropological study of the musical practice is a relatively new approach in in the field of musicology. I'm not a musicologist. So that's not how I'm trained. But I think the academic approach to classical music was not very, kind of, open to the kinds of topics that I raised in Musicians from a Different Shore.  00:53:12 Isabel Li  Definitely. I see. And my very final fun question for you is can you name three of your favorite classical music pieces for any recommendations you have for the audience who might be listening, who might be wondering what they will listen to next?  00:53:27 Mari Yoshihara  Well, OK well. Pieces well, because I wrote a book about Leonard Bernstein. I mean, I ended up– I wrote a book about Leonard Bernstein. Not necessarily because I was an avid fan of Bernstein. It just kind of happened this this project. But nonetheless of while I was doing research and writing the book I did listen to a lot of Bernstein. I and I have come to really love Bernstein music and so. And you know, of course, everybody knows West Side Story, but he actually wrote many other pieces that may not be as well known.   Well among the pieces that I like, I like…which one should I choose? I will choose. Ohh well, I'll choose a piece that I learned myself as a pianist.  I learned the piece called “Touches” that he wrote. It was a commission piece for the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, and it's kind of yeah, it's a chorale and variation. So that's very interesting and very interesting and very Bernstein-esque so well.   I'll OK, as an American study scholar. I'll, I'll stick with American pieces. I like someone Barber a lot. I like Barber “Excursions,” which I also learned to play.  00:55:04 Isabel Li  Yeah.  00:55:09 Isabel Li  Tough question.  00:55:11 Mari Yoshihara  Umm, Mason Bates piece that I also learned, “White Lies For Lomax.” This one was also, I believe…was it commissioned by the Cliburn? But no, maybe it wasn't. Yeah, I think it was commissioned. But anyway, I played it at the Van Cliburn International– the amateur competition of the Cliburn competition.  I did all these. So like Bernstein, Bates, Amy Beach piece I also played. Yeah, I'll stop there. I I wish you had prepped me for that then [laughs]–  00:55:42 Isabel Li  Oh my gosh. Great responses.  00:55:46 Mari Yoshihara  Hard to think on the spot.  00:55:47 Isabel Li  Yeah, I totally get that. Whenever people ask me for my favorite composer, I never have an answer. No, so I totally get it.   Well, thank you so much for your time, Mari. And thank you for your wonderful insights. I'll put the link to your books so that people can learn about your works on APEX Express on kpfa.org. So thank you so much for your time, Mari.  00:56:07 Mari Yoshihara  Thank you.  00:56:09 Isabel Li  As mentioned, please check our website kpfa.org to find out more about Mari Yoshihara, her scholarship, and links to two of her books. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important.  00:56:31 Isabel Li  APEX Express is produced by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, and Cheryl Truong. Tonight's show was produced by Isabel Li. Thanks to the team at KPFA  for their support. Have a great night.  [OUTRO MUSIC]  The post APEX Express – 09.04.2025 – Obbligato with Mari Yoshihara appeared first on KPFA.

Tonight, on The Panel, Wallace Chapman is joined by panellists Lizzie Marvelly and Nick Leggett. First up, Te Pati Maori MP Takuta Ferris is under fire for a social media post taking issue with "Indians, Asians, Black and Pakeha campaigning to take a Maori seat from Maori". What do our panel think of that? Then, it's the last gasp for the City to Sea Bridge in Wellington. the Panel hears from a dedicated opponent to its impending demolition. And finally, they hear from a traffic management manger about how traffic worker abuse is on the rise after the "war on cones".

It's just two of your noonas this week. Amy and Megan are here to discuss the Amazon Prime drama, Head Over Heels. This drama has some of our favorite tropes, a great blend of comedy and drama, and--yes--a bit of a messy ending. But guess what? We still loved it. Also, maybe you can help settle an argument. Does Megan actually like high school dramas now?K-Pop Rec: MONSTA X, 'Do What I Want'Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life.★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Many Asians grow up in a culture where it's hard to receive compliments or to praise those close to us, like our family member or spouse. When you become fully alive in God's purpose, it doesn't reduce the people around you; it inspires them! Let's deal with this 'paiseh' culture and expose the roots of it.

Many Asians grow up in a culture where it's hard to receive compliments or to praise those close to us, like our family member or spouse. When you become fully alive in God's purpose, it doesn't reduce the people around you; it inspires them! Let's deal with this 'paiseh' culture and expose the roots of it.

mike, travis and drunk discuss the following topics.... the nextdoor app is mad about dog poop.... sun tax! ai job interviews... bryan johnson on sex choking.... swatch Asians and our new segment: matt rife is the antichrist..... voicemail: dresser update.... the king of colas tries jones carbonated cherry cola candies: 4.8 where are the bodies, garth? big brother update.... potw: superman/twisted metal season 2/ancient aliens well, bye.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Important Links: Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram Bhutanese American Refugee Rights website Transcript Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam.  Since the onset of the Trump administration, immigrant and refugee communities have been under increased attack, being kidnapped in broad daylight, detained in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, and deported to countries many of them barely know. All without due process or communication to their loved ones and communities. On tonight's episode, we're focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US' deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people. I also want to note because this is a rapidly developing situation, that this episode was recorded on August 13th, 2025, and is being released on August 28th, 2025. For the most recent updates, please go to bhutaneserefugeerights.org or check out the Pardon Refugees campaign. Now, here's Miko. Miko: Welcome to Apex Express. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so glad to bring you all together in this time. I'm wondering if I could ask you each to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the community your organization serves and what you do, and let's start with Kao Ye.  Kao Ye: Hello everyone, and thank you for making space- my name is Kao Ye Tao. I use she her pronouns, and I work as the director of policy and partnerships with an organization called Hmong Innovating Politics. We are an organization that serves Hmong youth and families in Sacramento and Fresno, which holds two of our largest Hmong American communities in California. And our work with Hmong youth and families is really about developing their leadership to organize towards social justice and to get the resources that their communities deserve. Miko: Thank you, Kao Ye and Robin, could you please introduce yourself? Robin: Sure. My name is Robin Gurung. I use he, him, his, I'm from the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community. I live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. my role at Asian Refugees United is the co-founder and the co-executive director. We have our program in California and Pennsylvania. California programs are, are serving Asian diaspora and then, Pennsylvania programs are focused serving the Nepal speaking Bhutanese community. We work in the intersection of arts and healing, storytelling, civic engagement, leadership development. Thank you. Miko: Thanks Robin and I am your host Miko Lee, lead producer at Apex Express. And all of us are part of a network called AACRE Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, which is a network of progressive Asian American groups. So you all work with refugee populations. I'm wondering if you could tell a little bit more about the backstory of your community, and also if you feel comfortable about how you personally came to be a refugee in the United States. And, Robin, I'd love to start with you on that one. Robin: Sure. My community is Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community. And we are ethnically Nepali, which means culture wise and language wise we speak Nepali and follow the Nepali culture tradition. Our ancestors like maybe in 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds migrated from Nepal to Bhutan and became the citizen of that country. And most people don't know about Bhutan, it's a very tiny country between China and India. And, if people know about Bhutan, then people know it through the cross national happiness concept, Bhutan is considered the happiest country in the world. So our ancestors were in mostly in the southern area of Bhutan for generations, they became the citizen. They had their own home, their own land. And then later, 1980s, early nineties, there was a policy by the government of Bhutan, which is the monarchy government system- king rules the country. They brought a policy called One Nation, One People Policy. Which means all different groups of people would have to follow the same culture, same religion, kind of follow the same dress code and because of that policy all people were forced to stay away from following our own culture or our own religion, which, most of our folks were Hindu. Our people protested against it and because of that, the government expelled over a hundred thousand of our community members. And, they expelled to India and then from like India wouldn't allow us to stay and we had to resettle in Nepal in seven different refugee camps under different international agencies like U-N-H-C-R and other agencies. Miko: And then Robin, can you tell a little bit about your personal story and how you came here? Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So 1992 is when my family had to leave Bhutan. And at that time I was three years old. I remember growing up in a refugee camp in Nepal, from three years until I was 23 years. So 20 years of my life I was in a refugee camp in Nepal. And in 2012, I came to US through the refugee resettlement program introduced to our camps in 2008, and through it US agreed to resettle 60,000 of our committee members. By 2017, I think US has resettled about 70 to 80,000 of our Bhutanese community members.   Miko: Thank you so much for sharing. Kao Ye I wonder if you could talk about your community and the refugee resettlement program that your community was a part of. Kao Ye: The Hmong American community, or just the Hmong community overall, is a group that's indigenous to East and Southeast Asia. And through our ancient history, we've always been a stateless, people fighting for our autonomy to live to practice our customs and our culture. And particularly where we come into this history of refugee is during the Vietnam War where many Hmong people, alongside other ethnic groups in Laos, were caught in the crossfire of the United States conflict in Southeast Asia. And so with the Vietnam War. The Hmong as well as many other ethnic communities that lived, in the hills and the mountains were recruited in covert operations by the CIA to fight back against the Vietnamese, the Northern Vietnamese communist forces, as well as the Putet Lao. And so once the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, it created a vacuum of conflict and violence that our people had to escape from in order to survive. And so after the Vietnam War in 1975, we saw the mass displacement of many Southeast Asian ethnic communities, including Hmong families. And that is where my history starts because my parents were born in Laos and because of this war, they fled to Thailand refugee camps and lived there for a few years until they were able to come to the United States in 1992. And I'm actually I'm a child of refugees and so what I know about this part of my history comes from the stories of my grandparents who raised me as well as what little I could learn in the textbooks of public education. And so it wasn't actually until going to college and. Being able to access more of this literature, this history that I really learned about what the United States had done in Southeast Asia and the ramifications of that for myself and my family and so many others, refugees that. Have to have had to resettle in the United States. And so it's definitely a history that runs very close, because we have relatives that live through that refugee experience. And so it is very well and alive. And so as we now approach this conversation around ICE and deportations, it really is a reminder of the trauma that our people face, but are still facing as a people that have been seen as disposable to the United States government. Miko: Thanks, Kao Ye. Let's talk a little bit more about that. But first I wanna say, did either of you ever hear about refugees in your textbooks? I never did. So I'm wondering if, you said you learned a little bit about that from textbooks. Was that something you learned in public education. Kao Ye: I did not learn about refugees or refugees experience. I learned about the war and as a Hmong kid it brought me so much delight to try to scroll through the history books just to see if Hmong people were mentioned. And even then the refugee experience was not ever something that we talked about. I felt like definitely not in, in high school. I think it was college really, that then started to articulate those terms and that Southeast Asian identity, that is really where I think I also became politicized in that. Miko: Yeah, because I think in textbooks there might be a little section on the Vietnam War, but it does not talk about the, all the Southeast Asian ethnic peoples that actually fought in the war. We have to dig that information out on our own, but I wanna move us to what is happening right now. So the Trump administration has created. Culture of fear among immigrants and refugees, these ICE raids and disappearances. It is so intense and using immigrants as a fear tool to prop up white supremacy is so blatant right now. I'm wondering if you can each talk about, how this administration's policies are impacting your communities. And, Robin, let's start with you. What is happening right now? I know since the end of March, can you share a little bit about what's been happening with Bhutanese Americans? Robin: Sure. Sure. So our people were settled to this country with the hope that this is going to be our home. But starting March of this year, with the new policies of this current administration, we started seeing abrupt, ICE arrest in our communities. People were picked up from home, their workplaces, and from their ICE, check-ins. And, since March, within I would say two to three months, more than 72 of our community members were picked up, mostly from Pennsylvania and then Ohio, and also from other states like New York, Georgia, North Dakota. So until now, we have, the records of at least 50 people who have been deported to Bhutan and at least 72 who are detained. So more than 30 people are [at risk] of getting detained. The nature of the ICE arrests that we have seen is we don't know whether the due processes were followed. They made it so hard for the families to look for attorneys, and also to track their family members. Within days family members would find their loved ones disappeared, and then they wouldn't be able to talk to them they wouldn't be able to track them and provide the support that they needed. So for us as a community organization we did not anticipate this and we were not prepared for this. And, and we didn't have the infrastructure to really address this, right? So it became such challenging work for us. Like within days we had to mobilize our people. We had to mobilize our teams to help family members with legal support, emotional support, mobilize our community members to update what's happening with this situation. The rapid response work, know your rights clinics that we had to set up. So on one hand it's the detention and deportation in the US and on the other hand, when our people were deported to Bhutan, what we're seeing is within 24 hours, they are being expelled from Bhutan to India, and then from India because India wouldn't accept them as well, they had to enter Nepal because for most of these Deportee, they're very young, they were born in refugee camps, and for most of them, the only known land is Nepal. Right. And they had to enter Nepal without documentation. And then some of them were found in refugee camps. And most of them are unknown. Like they're, they have disappeared. Miko: So that is so much over the last few months that ARU has had to step in and take a leading, role in this situation that has impacted the Bhutanese community from focusing on wellness and youth development to suddenly translating materials into Nepali, translating, know Your Rights materials into Nepali, hosting all these different events, the work that you have been doing is really powerful. I wonder if you could share with us the story of Mohan Karki, who is a community member that's currently detained in Michigan. Robin: Sure. So, Mohan Karki is now in detention in Michigan and he's a community member member who lived in Ohio. So he was detained by ICE during his regular ICE check-in , I believe in April, they detained him and then he was taken for deportation. And last minute, the families and the community had to come together and then appeal the deportation. Right now he's in Michgan detention center and his wife, who was pregnant and had due date, when Mohan was being deported on June 10, is now fighting day and night to stop the deportation and also to bring Mohan home. Right now, Asian Refugees United and other community partners, like AWPAL, Asian Law Caucus are working together to support Mohan's family, to bring Mohan home and also running a, GoFund me fundraiser, to help the family pay the legal fees. Miko: Thanks Robin. And we're gonna listen to Tikas story right now. Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet I'm from Ohio and I'm fighting my husband deportation case.  So on April seven, a lot of people told us not to go to the ICE office, but my husband wanna follow the rules, he wanna go there. We went to the Westerville office inside And we sit down, we talk to each other. Nothing will go wrong. And suddenly ICE told us to come inside and they told us that my husband got travel documents from Bhutan. I told them like it is not safe for my husband to get deport in Bhutan, all the Bhutanese people run away in 1990s due to the ethnic cleansing and if my husband get deported in Bhutan, he will either gonna get killed, tortured, disappeared, imprisoned, I don't know what will happen, but they did not listen to me. So they detained my husband and I came at the parking lot and his mom saw me coming alone. So they start crying and I told them like, Mohan is gone and this is the last time I think I'm gonna see my husband. the time that my husband was taken away from Butler County on June 10 I was 41 weeks pregnant. I was supposed to deliver on, June 10. But no, I told the doctor I change my delivery time. I am not gonna go now like I need to fight for my husband. Like, When Bhutanese people started coming here in 2007. Third party promise us that in here in United States, we will get our identity. That identity will never taken away. They promise us that the way Bhutan take our identity, they will not gonna do that. we thought that this is our home. We thought that having a green card, having a citizenship, it is permanently, but no, we are, we all are wrong. And that identity is taken away within a second. And we became stateless again. So, my husband, Mohan Karki he just arrived in the United States he been here less than two years when the incident happened. He did not understand the law. He did not understand the culture. He did not know anything.  My husband he was only 17 years old, high school student coming from school to home. On the way to reach their apartment, there is one private house. They are just trying to go to the shortcut from the backyard. So some neighbor call 9 1 1. And that only one mistake lead to deportation.  The place that we come from, there is no boundaries. In Nepal, we are allowed to go anybody property We are allowed to walk somebody else house and because of the cultural difference, he's paying price right now.  At that time, nobody can speak English. They cannot understand what police were saying and Nepali interpreter told my husband that if you say I'm guilty, you'll out of prison soon. But if you did not say I'm guilty, you'll end up in prison for 20 to 25 years. High school student he's scared he just say, I'm guilty, and he did not know what is deportation mean. He did not know what he was signing. Nobody informed him what he was signing. That signing was deportation. What happened in 2013 is impacting us in 2025 and still he wish he did not cross somebody else backyard at that time. He wish he knew that he wasn't allowed to cross somebody else's backyard. I don't know what will our future is gonna be, but I hope that he gets second chance. His community love him. He love people. He was working as a truck driver. He paid taxes. He was supporting his parent. He was supporting me. My daughter deserve to have a father. You know, she's just one month. But now the dream that I was hoping one day I'm gonna build with my husband that is taken away and I'm left alone with this child. I already went through a lot without him, i'm the only one that fighting for my husband case. The deportation is not only breaking one family, but it is breaking everybody, the community and the family. And I hope that people can support me so I can fight for my husband case. Like I really need so many attorney. I need criminal attorney to open up his 2013 case. And I have wonderful, wonderful attorney, my husband get stay off removal, but that is not guarantee my husband can get deport anytime. The attorney fee are really expensive and he still needs support. The US made bhutanese people a promise of home. We belong here. Stop the detention and deportation. Stop deporting Bhutanese people. We are stateless. We don't have country, don't have a home. This is our home. US is our home. We belong here. Miko: Of the 72 people, Mohan is the first Bhutanese refugee that we actually have a stay of release on, as Robin was saying earlier, most of the folks were moved from state to state, so you can't really get a lawyer in that time. And as we all know, nonprofit immigration lawyers are under a lot of stress because of the attack of this administration. So it makes it incredibly complicated, let alone the legal fees that it costs to help support people going through this. And right now, Mohan has a stay on his, deportation and the lawyer that they do have is drafting up a letter to be able to release him into the community and also overturn his original case that happened as a minor in Georgia, which was a ridiculous case where he was leaving school, early high school, first year in the country, leaving high school early, and walked with his friends across a backyard. And the neighbor that they walked through their yard called the police, and they arrested him along with his friends for trespassing, they gave him paperwork that he didn't even understand. He signed it along with a interpreter they gave him false information to say he'd be locked up for 25 years, or if he signed this papers, that would be fine. He could go and what the papers said was it changed his charge into a felony and had him sign a letter of deportation. So this is part of the failure of our American legal system that we're not providing adequate information. It is a lack of due process. Thankfully, the work that Asian Law Caucus and United States of Stateless and other community activists are doing to call this out and help work with us is really critical. I wanna turn now to Kao Ye how this administrations is impacting Hmong refugees, and how is it similar or different to the experiences that Robin is describing for the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community? Kao Ye: I echoed many of the sentiments and the challenges that Robin shared around what we as nonprofit, grassroots organizations are having to build and grapple with just the limited infrastructure that we have to deal with the current ICE disappearances and deportation and all the support that's needed for the families. And so thank you Robin, for sharing that. I wanted to start broad a little bit because I think that this Trump administration is happening in the backdrop of the 50th year commemoration of the end of the wars in Southeast Asia and the refugee resettlement. We had over 1.1 million Southeast Asians resettle to the United States, the largest immigration resettlement, in American history. And so this year brings so many complexities, I think as a Southeast Asian community where there is a level of looking back at policies that have impacted us and have failed, but also looking forward what is the community that we are building together to move and progress together. And so there are those complexities, I think as the fact that it's the 50th year and like, this is what we're dealing with. This is the trauma that we are grappling with. And so I wanted to put that out front and center because even I think within our communities , there is no necessarily enlightenment in terms of how we talk about what is happening to our people and how they're getting deported unjustly. So that is why it is so important to have this dialogue within our communities as well as the solidarity that we also share with the Bhutanese community and other immigrant groups too. I think that in many of our Southeast Asian communities, their reasons for deportations is very tied to past convictions, and so this is the intersection between criminal law and immigration law. And it makes it complex because our people are now having to consult not just an immigration lawyer, but like criminal attorney so that they could really assess like what kind of relief they can get in order to mitigate, impending deportations. And then also miko you had shared about the lack of adequate legal service or representation because many of these folks, right, that have had these convictions that have now served their time and are simply members of our community that make our community rich. They are now having to revisit removal orders that they signed, thinking that, oh, nothing necessarily was gonna happen because they don't have a repatriation agreement. So, in our community, there was never a thought that we were going to be deported back to our home country because of that policy. And so that is a big contributing factor as to why the Hmong community, we don't have that infrastructure to really support our members who have gone through the criminal justice system and now have those removal orders. And so HIP, as well as many other grassroots. Sadly we did have to scramble to put this know your rights information together because again, I don't think that there was visibility in the need for us in this conversation around immigration Southeast Asians are a segment of our API community and so it just, I think, multiplied the invisibility that we already faced as a group of Southeast Asians. And so the support was definitely not there. And, to Robin's point, we did our best to try to put this information together to our community, starting with the Know Your Rights. And then we also realized like it was more complex than that, and that the legal supports were so necessary because everyone's case was different. I think what we're still dealing with now is that there's always been a lack of trust between our community members and government entities and nonprofit organizations. And so, if someone is dealing with the situation, they wanna go to, a partner that they trust to help them, even if they're not necessarily equipped to do that work, is that they're going to only the people that they trust because there is such a big mistrust. And so I think that, there is still the level of trust building that is needed to be done within our community so that folks feel comfortable to come to us or come to other people for support. And I think what makes me feel emotional is just when I hear about community members feeling hopeless and just feeling like there's nothing that they can do and that level of disempowerment to me, I think is something that is real. And I can't say that we can't combat it, but I think that it is about being able to find different outlets of support for them. Miko: Thank you for lifting that up. And just , in terms of the numbers, over three months, March, April and May, there were about 72 Bhutanese Americans that have been detained. And this is just kind of starting up with the Hmong community. So we had 15 that were detained from Minnesota and another 10 right now are being held in Michigan. And we also see this happening with Vietnamese, Laotian, Cambodians, and Myan folks. All of these folks as Kao Ye you're pointing out, have had common threads, which is connections with the system, with the criminal legal/ justice system and crimmigration is something that in the AACRE network we've been talking about and working on, which is really about the education to prison, to deportation pipeline. And one of the things that this administration had talked about is, let's get rid of all the murderers and the rapists. You know, this like scare language about people that are convicted criminals, let's get rid of them all. But the fact of the matter. The vast majority of all of these people are people like Mohan Karki, a cultural misunderstanding that happened when he was a child. Like Lou Yang, who is Hmong refugee detained in Michigan right now. Somebody who was involved in something as a kid, but has since then become a leader in the community. So let's take a moment and listen to the spouse of Lou Yang, a Hmong refugee detained in Michigan in July. Anne Vu: My name is Anne Vu and I come before you today with a heart full of hope. Sorrow and a plea for justice. I am a proud American, a mother of six, the daughter of Hmong refugees who would gain their citizenship, and the wife of a man called Lou Yang, who is now detained and faced with potential deportation from the only country that he's ever known. Lou has lived in Michigan since October, 1979. He was born stateless in a refugee camp in Nongkai Thailand and his family fled Laos due to persecution. His father and like many others, served with the United States force during the Vietnam War as part of the Secret War, recruited by CIA in Laos, a conflict that most Americans do not know has happened. The Hmong were recruited by the CIA as part of the Secret War to help America during the Vietnam War. But when the war ended and the US withdrew, we were as the Hmongs declared enemy of the state. What followed was genocide, polarization and persecution by the state, and it was because of our alliance, the promise made by the US government that the Hmong refugees were legally settled here under certain migration of refugee laws and acts. And Lou arrived here as a young, toddler in infancy. In 1997, he was arrested on an alleged accomplice in an attempt home invasion, second degree. He was in the vehicle at the time. He never entered the home. He literally was still a juvenile at that time. He had a court appointed attorney and was advised to take a plea without being told it would affect his immigration status for the rest of his life. This is the reality of our immigration system – long, complex, confusing and devastating, unforgiving. It is not built for people like us, people like Lou, people who have served their time, rebuilt their lives and have nowhere else to go. We've walked this legal path, we've stayed together in the lines, and yet we are here punished today. Lou has no other charges, no current legal issues, no history of violence. He is not a flight risk. He is not a danger to our public safety. He is a father, my husband, a son, a son-in-law, a grandson and a brother to many, and our leader and a provider to our community, and to my family. He renews his work authorization and follows every rule asked of him no matter how uncertain the future felt. Together, we've raised six beautiful children. They're all proud Americans. Lou has contributed to Michigan's economy for decades working in our automotive industry and now he is gone and all that he is built is unraveling and the community is heartbroken. We didn't come from wealth. We didn't have every opportunity handed to us because we didn't come seeking a land of opportunity. We came here because of survival. We had to build from the ground up. But the most important thing was Lou and I, we had each other. We had our families, our friends, and our neighbors. We had a shared commitment to build a better life, grounded in love, respect, and purpose. And somehow that's still not enough. For years, we were told like other Hmong families that Laos in Thailand would never take us back. And that has changed. In June, 2025 the US imposed a partial travel ban on Laos, citing visa overstays, and lack of deportation cooperation. And in response, Laos began issuing these documents under pressure. Today over 4,800, including Hmong, Myan, and the other ethnic minorities are facing removal to Laos and to many other countries, many have never stepped foot in a country that they are now being sent to. Lou is Stateless like many others that is detained with him. None of these countries recognize him. He was born in the Thailand refugee camp, it does not recognize him nor qualify him for any sort of Thai citizenship and I'll tell you guys right now if forced to return, he will face danger because of his family's deep ties to the CIA and United States military. Deporting him turns him, a civil servant and respected community leader, into a political casualty, it would be a grave and irreversible injustice. To deport him now is to punish him to death. Once again, 50 years later, as we celebrate resilience this year across the nation, we are now celebrating a fight within our own grounds, right here in United States, right here in Michigan. We're now fighting the same fight within our own country. Thousands of Southeast Asian Americans, many that entered legally admitted as refugees are being deported for decade old offenses they've longed paid for. America is our country. All we ask is the right to stay in the home that we've helped to build and work hard to protect. We are not seeking special treatment. We are asking for justice, compassion, and a second chance in this country to claim what we believe in. To Governor Whitmer and members of Congress and all elected officials, please help bring Lou and the many others home. Urge ICE and DHS to release him on humanitarian grounds. Help his case. Help us preserve the integrity of our laws and the dignity of our families. And to the public allies and the media. Please call our elected officials. Please call these offices.  Please share Lou's story. We need voices. Voices louder than ours alone. It is hard times you guys. It is real. And I speak to you from the bottom of my heart. Please help me and our families in the many that are suffering. This is our home. These are our children. This is my husband and this is our fight. Let him come home. Let our families be whole again, and let America keep its promise. Thank you guys for hearing me. Miko: Lou Young is a community leader. Michigan, who actually runs a nonprofit in support of Hmong folks in that community, and is targeted and also has a stay of removal. So we're doing a targeted campaign for both of these folks, Lou Yang and Mohan Karki, to be able to get them released to overturn their original convictions and they also have spouses that are telling their stories and telling the impact these detentions have had. Because while this current administration talks about getting rid of criminals, what they are actually doing is breaking apart families and community. Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Coming up is Deporting the Pilgrim from the Anakbayan Long Beach Mayday Mix tape.   Swati Rayasam: That was please be strong, featuring Hushed, loudmouth and Joe handsome. And before that was deporting the pilgrim from the Unec Bayan Long Beach Mayday Mixtape. Now back to the show. Miko:  I wanna shift us a little bit to talking about Asian american representation in the larger fabric of immigration justice in the United States. Mostly many of our Asian communities have been like isolated, not really involved in the broader immigration movement. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the difficulty and nuance of bringing your community struggle to the forefront because many of us heard about the Venezuelans and the Mexicans that have been deported and what was going on, but we don't hear as much about these stories of our Asian sisters and brothers. I wonder if one of you could give voice to that. Robin: Before going there can I add something to  Miko: of course.  Robin: crimmigration conversation? So when you all are sharing about that, I was thinking about, the justice system in this country and what we are seeing right now is a broken justice system. Like you said, Miko, where families are separated where families are broken, and what I don't understand is, when, let's say your loved one gets into trouble, makes a mistake, and gets into a trouble, then, as a human being, like, don't you want your loved ones to rebuild their lives? Like Yes, of course there is a system that you have to follow, the laws that you have to follow, but at the end, I think we all want our loved ones to come back, rebuild their lives, right? And what we're seeing in this country is they're constantly breaking the families. And I don't see how we are going to build a better future when we are constantly, hurting the families. And in the cases of detention and deportation, what we're seeing is the double punishment. Like the mistakes that they had made, but then throughout their life, they have to go through that, a continuous cycle of being punished. And not just the individuals, but their family members have also go through the challenges, the suffering, right? And in the case of Bhutanese from double punishment to double expulsion to this, the state of being statelessness. Right? So what kind of future we are imagining when an individual has to go through that continuous cycle of being punished and not having the opportunity to rebuild their lives. So that's a big question mark that I think, we all need to think about. To your later question around my community and the larger Asian American context or the national context. My community is relatively new to this country. We lived, almost two decades in a refugee camp, which was a enclosed camp. And our lives were dependent on foreign aids like UNHCR or ILWF. Pretty much I would say we had our own world over there. And for us to work outside the refugee camp was illegal. There was no laws that gave us the permission to work outside. So we were not pretty much exposed to the outer world. So for us to come to US was a big step. Which means pretty much from basic every day stuffs like, you know, using a bathroom, using a kitchen, taking a bus. All of those were foreign for us. So for our community to really tap into the education system, the political landscape of this country. And also like the experience of being expelled for voicing our, our opinions, for fighting for our rights. Right? So for us, for our community to kind of step in into the politics, it's like re-traumatizing ourselves. I would say there are a lot of barriers, multi-layered barriers for our community members to really tap into the larger political, like socio political landscape, from language barriers to culture barriers to education, to pretty much everything. So right now, the way our committee has been being attacked. It's a surprise to the community. And also it is like kind of traumatizing the community and taking us back to the same place of feeling, insecure, feeling like we don't have a home. And we did hope that this is legally, this is going to be a home. Because after coming to the US most of us became the legal citizens of this country and we started rebuilding our lives. Now it's kind of like going back to the same circle of statelessness. Miko: Thank you for sharing about that. Kao Ye, would you like to add to that? Kao Ye: When I think of the Hmong American community and even the Southeast Asian community and why the narratives of what is happening still feels very invisible. I think of how our community, we were assimilating for survival. And I speak on that as a child of my refugee parents and siblings where growing up we were taught to, listen, not speak out, not cause trouble. Go through the system, listen to authority, listen to law enforcement. And because of that, I feel it's shaped a culture of fear. Fear to dissent and fear to speak out because we care so much about the stability of our families. And we wanted to protect ourselves, because of everything we've gone through with the war. And we are finding that it's been challenging for our community members to come forward with their stories. Honestly, we're still sitting on that and we're still kind of sitting through like, why is there that tension? You know, I feel like folks are going through a lot and even folks have, our impacted loved ones, but they're afraid to tell their story because of fear of of retaliation. And so I think that there is a level of, I think that lack of even psychological safety, but real, physical, real financial safety that people have. And I think that being a factor to the assimilation, but also this facade of like the American dream and like if we don't just disrupt, if we don't speak out, we will be protected. And, white supremacy, right? Like we will be okay. And it's a facade because we know that because our communities are the ones getting kidnapped and getting deported. Right. And so I think there is that fear, but there's also recognition of this now, this facade that the silence doesn't protect us and that there is a real need for us to really, be strong in speaking out, not just for our SEA siblings that are impacted, but for all of our immigrant groups, even the Bhutanese community, right. That's been impacted during this time. And so I, yeah, I think it is that multi-layered experience of being a Southeast Asian refugee community on top of, being part of this AAPI umbrella. AAPI we are not homogenous. We all have very unique histories as to how we have dealt with the systems in this country and how we came into this country. And so I think it's been challenging to make space for those nuances. And at the end of the day, I still see the interconnections that we all have together too. And so, I think it's the willingness to make space for those different stories. And I am finding that more of our ethnic media, our smaller news outlets are more willing to cover those stories as opposed to, these larger mainstream outlets. Like they're not covering those stories, but we are. Miko: Thank you. Oh, both of you have brought up so much today about our failed criminal justice system, about us punishing people as opposed to rehabilitating people and punishing them more than once. We brought up questions around statelessness and the impact that it has, and I just recently learned that the United States does not have any policy on Statelessness. So one of the things that this coalition of folks is trying to do is to get a congressional hearing to help the United States develop policy around statelessness, because it is actually our responsibility and our duty to do that. The other thing I hear you both talking about is this good immigrant, bad immigrant trope, which we've heard of a lot, but I think that's also very much connected to why so many members of our communities don't wanna speak out because this connection with, you know, quote unquote criminal history might be something that's shameful. And I'm wondering if you both see that as a divide mostly between elders in the community and younger folks. Robin, do you wanna talk about that? Robin: Yeah. I mean, initially when we were mobilizing our community members to fight against the the unjust and unfair detention and deportation, this issue around the perception around good immigrants and bad immigrants became one of the main topic of discussion. We had to deal with people, and mostly elders, but I would say some young folks as well, who would pull themselves back on speaking against this issue because for them people who are being deported or detained are criminals and they deserve this kind of mindset. And not being able to see the larger picture of how the administration is targeting the immigrant and the refugee population of this country and really trying to dismantle community power, right? So, yes, it is a challenge that we are, we're going through and I think it's going to be quite a bit of work, to really build solidarity within our own communities. Kao Ye: I feel that the divide in the Hmong community is stemming from class and education. I feel as though when folks are articulating, regurgitating these justifications of the bad immigrant as to why folks should be deported it's folks that maybe kind of made it in their lives and now they're comparing themselves to folks that were not in that situation. And there is this growing within our community as well, where some folks are getting that education, getting, good jobs. But so much of our community, we still suffer from poverty, right? And so, I think that has been really interesting to witness the level of division because of class, because of income and also the education piece. Because oftentimes when folks are feeling this, it comes from a place of ignorance as well. And so that's why I think the education piece is so important. I actually feel though our elders are more understanding because these are their children that are being separated from them. And Robin's point is that when we have loved ones that go through the system, we just want them to rebuild their lives and be self-sufficient. And I feel like those are the values that I grew up in my community where our parents were always about keeping the family together to a fault, you know? And so they don't want separation. They just want us to be well and to do well, and to turn our lives around. And so, I feel strongly that our elders, they do understand that the importance of giving this opportunity for us to, to stay together and turn our lives around. Miko: Thank you so much, both of you for joining me here today to talk about this important conversation. I'm wondering if you could provide our audience with how they could find out more about what is going on and what are next steps for our audience members. Robin, let's start with you. Robin: Yeah. I just wanted to add what, Kao Ye talked about. I do agree the patterns around the divide is based on class. And I do see that in the community, and not just the class, but in our community class and caste, I would say. And in terms of the class, there were some instances where we had to deal with even the highly educated like PhD holders kind of, questioning us like, you know, what we are advocating for, and, I couldn't understand like, I couldn't relate the education, the title, the degree that he holds and the perception around this issue. Right. So, I just wanted to echo that. So, in terms of our work and Asian Refugees United, our website is www.asianrefugees.org And you can find us in our Instagram, Facebook, Asian Refugees United. Miko: And you can also get latest news about what's happening at bhutaneserefugeerights.com. Yeah. And Kao Ye how can folks find out more about your work? Kao Ye: Right now HIP is part of a statewide network in California called the Pardon Refugees Campaign, where we are really pushing Governor Newsom to pardon all refugees, not just Southeast Asians because of everything that we talked about, about how our families, they deserve to stay together. And so, I don't think we have a website up yet, but you can follow this campaign with us. We will be having a rally and press conference, coming up soon, in the next few weeks. And so, I would say that please follow us in that work where we are really moving in coalition with all of our uh, grassroots partners to advocate for our loved ones that are currently being impacted. Miko: Thank you so much, Robin Gurung, Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong Innovating Politics. Thank you so much for being with us here today, and I hope you listeners out there take action to keep our families together, to keep our people in the communities as loved ones where they belong. Thank you all. Have a great night. Swati Rayasam: I'm so grateful that Miko was able to talk to Robin and Kao Ye. And for those who missed it, visit bhutanese refugee rights.org for the most recent updates on the Bhutanese refugees. The press conference in rally Kao Ye mentioned took place last week on August 21st, 2025, but check out the Pardon Refugees Campaign for updates from the coalition supporting Hmong, Cambodian Laotian, Myan, and other refugees facing deportation. Thanks so much for tuning in to Apex Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by  Miko Lee, along with Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar,  Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Ravi Grover, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support and have a good night.   The post APEX Express – August 28, 2025 – “And we became stateless again” appeared first on KPFA.

We pull from our romance writer roots in today's episode, and discuss everything from writing sexual tension in our own books to some of our favorite couples with the best sexual tension in Kdramas. K-Pop Rec of the Week: Smeraldo Garden Marching Band by JiminReady to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life.★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

It's another week of Asians in Baseball, and is it just us, or is it bright in here with all these STARS?!First, Team Taiwan and Lin Chin-Tse win the Little League World Series! Saweetie, V, and Sonny throw out the first pitch (in separate games, but wouldn't that be sick if it was the same one!) And a very special listener recap from Brian Nguyen on his time at Ichiro's number retirement. Then, in position players: Anthony Volpe is still trying to get out of his slump, we've got hit streaks on hit streaks, Jahmai Jones emerges as a candidate for Team Korea, Mookie is impressed by the Grandson of the Wind, and Steven Kwan is the first player featured in MLB's new Youtube series No Easy Outs.In pitching, Mets #4 prospect Jonah Tong is called up to The Show, Shinnosuke Ogasawara gets the "diminutive Asian" treatment (he's 5' 11" and 205 lbs btw), Naomi argues a strong case for Bryan Woo winning the Cy Young, Yu Darvish holds a masterclass on the Art of Pitching, and Riley O'Brien is soaring. Finally, Ohtani continues to prove his status as the GOAT: going on an offensive tear vs. the Angels when the rest of the Dodgers can't buy a hit, taking a liner off the thigh and staying in the game, and making friends with a Padres heckler who can't help but love the guy. Steven Kwan on No Easy Outs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb741rMPOqcBryan Woo article in The Athletic: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6567405/2025/08/22/bryan-woo-mariners-bob-uecker/

Iva Chen is a dynamic entrepreneur, CPA, and community advocate whose career spans finance, hospitality, and small business empowerment. A UC Santa Barbara graduate, she began at Deloitte before holding leadership roles at Nestlé USA, CBS Paramount, and The Capital Group. Currently CEO of IOC Design & Consulting and Chief Development Officer of Lady Luck Gourmet, she develops and operates airport restaurants and retail concessions, bringing local and minority-owned brands into major airports. Her entrepreneurial ventures have ranged from matchmaking to launching a pizza chain in China, showcasing her creativity and adaptability. Iva also serves as VP of Public Relations for the Los Angeles Chapter of AMAC, co-founded the Association of Asians in Aviation, and was named “Mentor of the Year” by UCLA's Riordan Programs. She sits on advisory boards, supports inclusive economic development, and is passionate about equity, mentorship, and leadership development. Outside of work, she is an Army ROTC Bootcamp graduate, two-time triathlete, wife, mom of two, foodie, and lifelong learner, recently earning her WSET Level 1 certification in Wines.

08-21-25 - BR - THU - Survey Asks What Is Perfect Salary - SciNews On Saturn Storms And More - John Can't Watch Asians Eating Odd Foods In Bret's VideoSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

08-21-25 - BR - THU - Survey Asks What Is Perfect Salary - SciNews On Saturn Storms And More - John Can't Watch Asians Eating Odd Foods In Bret's VideoSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Resources: Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram | Learn about the Disappearances of Bhutanese American refugees: Website | Toolkit Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Lavender Phoenix: Website | Instagram Minjoona Music: Instagram   Transcript: Cheryl (Host): Good evening. You're tuned in to Apex Express. I'm your host, Cheryl, and tonight we're diving into the vibrant summer programming happening across the AACRE network. That's the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network. AACRE is made up of 11 Asian American social justice organizations working together to build collective power and create lasting movements .  Throughout tonight's show, we'll be spotlighting a few of these groups [00:01:00] and the incredible work they're leading this summer. First up, we're joined by Pratik from Asian refugees United Pratik. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself and to kick things off in the spirit of tonight's show, maybe share what's something that's been bringing you joy this summer? Pratik (ARU): Hello, namaste everyone. My name is Pratik Chhetri. He, him. I'm the program manager at ARU, Asian Refugees United in Pennsylvania. I'm originally from Nepal. I grew up in Nepal. I am an immigrant, came to the for college long time ago. And I've been working in social justice, health justice field for over 15 years now. Initially it was mostly around advocacy policy relating to access to medicines, issues, especially in lower and middle income countries, and the past six, seven. More than seven [00:02:00] years. I also started an organization, a nonprofit organization in Nepal, that works at the intersection of social, economic and climate justice. And with ARU, I got introduced to ARU back in 2020. So by that time I had some skills that I felt I could bring to the community. Even though I'm not from Bhutanese refugee community, I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent. So I felt with the linguistic skill I could be of some help. I think right around that time COVID happened, everything and end of 2021 is when I reconnected with Robin and started talking about possibilities. For about two years, I was part of the CAMP for Emerging Leaders, the leadership program ARU has, and [00:03:00] starting last year, early this year formally, I am a staff, for ARU. I'm in charge of programs under wellness, education, and civic engagement largely but depending on time and resources, I become available for other programs as well. It's a joy working with ARU. I was just telling Cheryl earlier that it doesn't feel like work ‘ cause I enjoy it, working with people, getting to work on impactful programs, and being a part of an organization that has so much potential, so much responsibility, but also trying to find new ways to become, useful for the community. That's very exciting. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): That's great. I'm glad that your work is what's bringing you joy this summer. That's so special. And before we get into some of that impactful programming that you've been running this summer, could you [00:04:00] tell us a little bit about, ARU, Asian Refugees United  Pratik (ARU): Sure. ARU started back in 2016 in California and back then all of the programs used to be in California. The community that ARU serves since then, and even to this day are Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community and Vietnamese community, Korean and other Pan-Asian community. After the pandemic, there has been a lot of secondary migration of the Bhutanese folks from across the United States to two major locations. One being central PA around Harrisburg area and Pennsylvania, and the second one around Columbus, Ohio, and other major cities in Ohio. The secondary migration mostly to Pennsylvania triggered a, shifting of ARU programs, to Pennsylvania as well in addition to [00:05:00] California. So at this point in 2025, the Pennsylvania side of ARU caters to the Nepali speaking Bhutanese folks. And the California side of ARU works with Vietnamese, Korean, and other Asian communities. I work with the Pennsylvania, ARU, and here we have four different pillars around health and wellness, education, art and storytelling. And the fourth one is civic engagement, and that is the newest one. I can talk about programs under each of the pillars but for summer the programs that is bringing me joy, not only for me, but also ARU's staffs is this longitudinal five month long leadership program called Camp for Emerging Leaders, where we recruit Nepali speaking folks from all across United States, and they go through virtual sessions every other [00:06:00] week on, history to the story of displacement, intergenerational trauma. How it started, how it used to be back in Bhutan, how it used to be in the refugee camps in Nepal, and now how it is in the US and Canada, wherever they are. So end of summer, end of July, early August is when all of those cohort members, the youth leaders will come physically to Harrisburg and we'll spend a few days here connecting with each other, building that trust, but also working together to build projects for the community, addressing community challenges that's happening. And for that I think five or six of the ARU staff from California are also coming. We have guest speakers. I think one of them is coming from all the way from Australia. It's fun. Largely I think [00:07:00] I'm looking forward to meeting with all of these youth leaders who have so much potential to do, so much good, not only for Bhutanese community, Nepali speaking, south Asian community, but also, their potential goes beyond that, yeah.  Cheryl (Host): It is powerful to hear how ARU's work has evolved and now spans across the nation, and also how Camp for Emerging Leaders is creating space for Nepali speaking Bhutanese youth to reflect their community's history, build deep connections, and grow as leaders. You mentioned that during the summer youth leaders gather in Harrisburg to create community projects. Could you share more about what kinds of projects they're working on and what kind of issues they're hoping to address? Pratik (ARU): For education, one of the main ones that we just concluded is, so we started high school success program called First Step Forward. And the interesting thing, the exciting thing about this program [00:08:00] is the concept of First Step forward from one of the Camp for Emerging Leaders cohort from two years ago. And similarly so that's how most of ARU programs have been. The ARU Youth Center, the ARU Office, that concept also started from the camp for emerging leaders. There are a couple other programs ARU does. Youth Wellness Day. That started from the camp as well. For the First Step Forward, what we do is early winter of, I think January or February we accepted a cohort of 10. These were high school juniors and seniors, and largely the purpose of the program is to make sure that they are well equipped for college and for any other professional avenues they end up going even if higher education is not for them. We did a lot of like leadership sessions, public speaking [00:09:00] sessions, like how to write essays, how to apply for different scholarships. We just concluded it literally last Saturday, we went hiking and went to one of the Six Flags amusement parks. But learning from that program, we are scaling it up. We're taking 20 people next year, and we will do it a year long cohort. So starting from September up until May, June. We'll integrate college tours, not only for the kids, but also for their family because in Bhutanese community and Nepali speaking folks a lot of the times the parents do not understand how the system works, even with their best intent and best intention. So along with the students, it is very important for us to work with the family, the parents as much as possible to take them through the process, right? On education, we also do a lot of cultural navigation training to [00:10:00] different county level and different governance agencies. Some of the cultural navigation trainings that we did in the past year that I can think of is we did one for the. Panel of judges from Dauphin County, which is where Harrisburg is. We did similar thing for different school districts in Dauphin and Cumberland County, different nearby counties for juvenile probation unit, child and youth services. And while we do that, as an organization, it gave us a better sense of where the gaps are, especially for parents to run into difficulties. 'cause a lot of times, for example, if a kid is sent home with a sheet of paper, even when it's bilingual, because their movement happened from Nepal to Bhutan, such a long time ago, a lot of the folks in the community speak the language but do not understand how to read or write the [00:11:00] language. So there are double language barrier, right? When a kid is called into a meeting or a disciplinary meeting, the parents a lot of times don't even look at the sheet of paper or don't know where to show up or how to show up or what to expect. Based on those things we're using that knowledge and experience to design further programs in the future. That's just for education. With civic engagement, for example, this 2024 cycle was the first election for our community members to vote in their lifetime. Back in Bhutan they didn't have that opportunity and then they spent decades in refugee camps, and it took most of them some time to get the green cards and five years after Green card to secure their citizenship. So we saw a lot of even elderly folks show up to voting. That was their first time that they were voting. And when that happens, it's not [00:12:00] just generic voter education. It's teaching the community how to register, where to register, where to show up at the precincts. A lot of precincts we were seeing, 30 to 40% of the folks show up to the wrong precincts. So there's a lot of need, but also in 2024 we saw, unfortunately, a lot of folks fall victim to misinformation and disinformation. So there's that need to do something about that part as well in the future. One of the things we started doing under civic engagement work is not just teach folks where to register, how to register on voter education, but also preparing some of the community members to run for office.  Two or three weeks ago, mid-June, we did our first round of run for office training. We partner up with another organization called Lead PA. And even for the folks who showed up, all of us [00:13:00] are politically inclined, educated to a certain extent, and a lot of the things that were shared in that training, it was mostly new to us, especially around local government. Like what are the positions that they are and how so many important positions, people run unopposed and what kind of ramifications that might have for our daily lives. Right. Starting 2026 election cycle, we're hoping some of our trainees run for office as well, starting from school board to all the way, wherever they want to. And there are wellness focused events, youth wellness Day that I talked about, around mental health is one of the great needs for the community. One piece of data might be very important to mention, based on CDCs 20 12 data, there was a report out, the research was conducted in 2012, and the report came out in 2014, basically what it said [00:14:00] was, Bhutanese folks in the US have the highest of suicide in the whole nation, and that's something that has not received a lot of attention or resources because generally those numbers get mixed up with generic Asian data and the numbers get diluted. Right. So one of the things, what, as an organization, what we are trying to do is bring awareness to that number. And the other thing is like, it's been over 10 years since that study happened and there has not been a follow-up study. What we are seeing is previously how mental health and it's ramifications how it was affecting the community, it was mostly about 10 years ago, mostly affecting older folks. Now we are seeing a lot of younger folks commit suicide or suicidal attempts. So there is a lot of work in that respect as [00:15:00] well. These are also some of the very crucial topics to work on. But as an organization, we are taking baby steps toward being able to efficiently address the community needs. I missed some of them, but overall, our organizational goal is to empower the community in one way or the other. And one of the tools that we use is focusing on youths because youths in the community, similar to other immigrant communities, our youths are mostly bilingual, bicultural, and many times they're the translators and system navigators for their whole family. And in many cases their extended family as well. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. There are so many layers to the work that you all do. From developing leaders to run for office, to supporting mental health, to helping folks navigate voting and helping folks access higher education or career pathways.[00:16:00]  That's such a wide scope, and I imagine it takes a lot to hold all of that. How do you all manage to balance so much, especially with a small team, is that right?  Pratik (ARU): Yes. Technically we only have one full-time staff. Most are part-time, but ranging from. 10% to 80%. Largely we rely on the community members, volunteers, and we pay the volunteers when we can. And other times, I think it speaks to how much time and effort and how genuinely, folks like Robin, who is the co ED of ARU and Parsu who is the office manager, and other folks in Harrisburg, connected with different community leaders, folks of different subgroups over the years. So. When ARU moved to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania post pandemic, it took them a while to get the hang of the community, the growing community. Back then it used to [00:17:00] be 10, 20,000 max in central PA and now our estimation is like 70, 80,000 in central PA. It took them a while to create space of trust, that ARU are people that they can come for when they run into problems. And even when we don't have a lot of resources, people show up. People volunteer. People volunteer their time, their spaces for meetings and events. Yeah. And that's how we've been running it. I feel like we do five or 10 x amount of work with the resources that we have, but that's largely because of the perception the community has about Robin, about Parsu, about other individuals, and about the organization.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. ARU clearly has such deep community roots, not just through the incredible work that of course Robin, [00:18:00] Parsu and so many others you have named have done to build lasting relationships that now sustain the work in the organization, but also I think it's also evident in the examples you've shared through Camp for Emerging Leaders, how you all really listen to youth and learn from their experiences. And you all shape programs that respond directly to the needs that you're seeing. And in that same spirit of care and commitment that is reflected in ARU's amazing staff and volunteers. I'm curious, are there any moments or memories from camp for emerging leaders that stand out to you? I imagine there must be so many.  Pratik (ARU): Yeah. Many stories. I started attending and facilitating the sessions for the camp I from 2022 cohort and maybe even 23 cohort. I think this is the third one that I'm doing. I'll talk about Kamana. [00:19:00] Kamana joined the 23 cohort and at that time she was still in high school. But you know, she was bubbly, full of energy and she was one of the pretty active members of the cohort and eventually after the cohort, she ended up joining ARU as initially, I think as an intern, and now she is the lead of the education program. She will be a sophomore or rising junior, starting this fall. But now she'll be running the education program, First Step Forward. Primarily it was internally us staff, we see the growth in them with experience. But also I think one of the things that ARU does is we create a sort of non-hierarchical structure within our office space in the sense that anyone can [00:20:00] design a program or any idea, and they do not feel intimidated to speaking up. I think because of that, people like Kamana, I can talk about other folks like Nawal. Them growing within ARU space shows not just with experience, but also I think the kind of open and inclusive and non hierarchical space that we create they feel comfortable enough in leading. A lot of times when we have , X, y, and Z needs to be done in the group chat, people just volunteer. Even when they don't get paid, we see our staff, our volunteer base just show up time and time again. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. ARU is such a special container. You've created this beautiful space where people can grow and then also have agency to shape that container in whatever way that they want. That is so special. How can listeners support your work this [00:21:00] summer? Whether that's showing up or donating or volunteering or spreading the word.  Pratik (ARU): One of the things is for the listeners, I feel like not a lot of folks know about Bhutanese community much. So yes, they speak Nepali. They sometimes they identify as Nepali because it's just easy. , Bhutanese folks normally identify as either Bhutanese or Nepali or American or any combination of those three identities. A lot of folks do not know, including folks from Nepal about the atrocity, the trauma that the community went through had to go through the forced persecution out of Bhutan and then living under very limited means while in the refugee camps in Nepal and even the number of challenges the community still [00:22:00] faces. I talked a little bit about mental health needs. There's. There are needs around, health seeking behavior and similar to other immigrant communities as well, but also, on education. Because of the historical division around caste and class and other demographic details, certain folks in the community are geared towards success versus others aren't. And we see that. We see the pattern quite distinct by their indigeneity, by their caste, by their last names. In our community you can tell what their caste is, what their ethnic background is with their last names. So I would invite the audience to learn a little bit more about this community and if you have that space and resources [00:23:00] to be, if you're a researcher, if you want to do some research studies, if you want to bring some programs. If you have scholarship ideas, if you want to create any scholarship for the kids in the community, or if you have means, and if you can donate, either or. It doesn't have to be just, financial resources. It can be sometimes being available as mentor to some of the kids to show them these are the possibilities. To summarize, learn more about the community if you don't know already including some of the new atrocities, the community's facing right now with ICE detention and deportation, even when the community was brought in to this country after years and years of approval through the process. And if you have resources and means help with knowledge sharing, being available or with [00:24:00] financial means either or. I just wanted to mention that I work with ARU and I work with the Bhutanese community, but like I said, I'm not from the Bhutan community. I grew up in Nepal. I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent, but I definitely cannot speak for the experience of going and living as a refugee. So,, if you have any question, if you want to learn more about that, Cheryl and I, we are happy to put you in touch with folks with incredible stories, inspiring stories of resilience in the community. Cheryl (Host): Thank you so much. All of the links, whether to learn more, donate or get involved, as well as information about the disappearances impacting the Bhutanese American community will be included in our show notes. A huge thank you to Pratik from Asian Refugees United for joining us tonight. We're deeply grateful for the work you do and the love you carry for our [00:25:00] communities. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We're going to take a quick music break and when we come back we'll hear more about the summer programming happening across the AACRE network with folks from Lavender Phoenix, and Hmong innovating politics. So don't go anywhere. Next up, you're listening to a track called “Juniper” by Minjoona, a project led by Korean American musician, Jackson Wright. This track features Ari Statler on bass, josh Qiyan on drums, and Ryan Fu producing. Juniper is the lead single from Minjoona's newest release, the Juniper EP, a five track p roject rooted in indie rock, 60 throwback vibes, and lyric forward storytelling. You can follow Minjoona on Instagram at @minjoonamusic or find them on Spotify to keep up with upcoming releases. We'll drop the links in our show notes. Enjoy the track and we'll be right back. [00:26:00] [00:27:00] [00:28:00] [00:29:00] [00:30:00]  And we're back!!. You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. That was “Juniper” by Minjoona.  Huge thanks to Jackson Wright and the whole crew behind that track [00:31:00] Before the break, we were live with Pratik from Asian Refugees United, talking about the powerful summer programming, supporting the Nepalese speaking Bhutanese community in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Now I'm joined by from Blair Phoenix. From Lavender Phoenix, who's here to share about her experiences as a summer organizer In Lav N'S annual summer in Lav N's annual summer organizer in Lav N'S annual summer organizing program. Hi Mar. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Okay. Mar, do you mind for our listeners out there who are just tuning in, do you mind introducing yourself? Mar (LavNix): Yes. Thank you, Cheryl. Hi, y'all. My name is Mar Pronouns, [00:32:00] she/siya/any! I come from the lands of the Ibaloi people in the Philippines or “Maharlika”. I am a queer Muslim and yeah, I'm just happy to be here. Cheryl (Host): Yay. We're so happy to have you here, mar! For those who might not be familiar, Mar is joining us from Lavender Phoenix as part of this year's summer organizing program. Mar,, could you start by giving our listeners a quick introduction to Lavender Phoenix? And then could you tell us a little bit about the summer organizing program and what it's all about? Mar (LavNix): Yeah, of course. Cheryl. Let's start with Lavender Phoenix. Lavender Phoenix is a really awesome nonprofit over here in the Bay Area who focus on trans queer, API. Work basically. I really love Lavender Phoenix because of their unwavering commitment to collective liberation [00:33:00] and the very specific focus and centering around trans queer API leadership because our leadership is often underrepresented and because there's so many intersections there, we need to have trans queer API leadership to be able to move the work. And so really fond of lavender Phoenix's ethos and mission values. This year for the summer 2025, I'm part of their summer organizer program, which is a cohort of organizers both emerging, established and wanting to learn, and we learn a lot of transformative interpersonal organizing skills, but also building our more technical skill sets alongside with that. So we're actually three weeks from graduation [00:34:00] nooooooooo!. Anyways, yeah, just really happy to be in this cohort. I'm feeling really aligned in that I am here and it is transforming me in the way I had intentions for when I applied for it. Cheryl (Host): Wow. It sounds like this was a really impactful program for you. I wanna know what kinds of projects are you all working on?  Mar (LavNix): Yeah, so it's really beautiful because it's not just like a single project the cohort works on, it's kind of a myriad of things. We have two folks who are doing projects with other organizations, and then we have the rest of the folks working on two projects within Lavender Phoenix's programming. And so for my group, my very awesome group, we are doing the River of Life Project, and the River of Life Project is a five week long cohort where we practice storytelling in a very vulnerable and honest way, and this is for the [00:35:00] purpose to really witness one another and to cultivate our storytelling skills because our stories and narratives is so important. There's whole states and governments trying to take that away from us, and so our project is to guide and facilitate this project and meet with members across rank. It's super cool seeing the different facets of lavender Phoenix come together and be down, to be in the act of vulnerability and honesty and that is their praxis for collective liberation. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Yeah. Yeah. That's so well said. And it's so important that we have these spaces to practice that vulnerability because we are so often punished for being who we are. Right. So, mm-hmm. These programs are so crucial as you have uplifted for us. I am so curious to learn more about this River of Life project, but [00:36:00] also before we even get to that, I wanna zoom out a little bit and focus on your growth and who are you now as you get closer three weeks from graduation?  Mar (LavNix): Ooh, that is such a beautiful question, Cheryl. Yeah. I've been really reflecting on how this program transformed me this summer and to bring us back to when I first applied. I first applied sometime in March, I believe. I remember 'cause it was around Ramadan. I was at a point in my life where I felt stagnant in my organizing journey. I would attend all these workshops, I would keep reading, but there was a disconnect in how my mind wanted to move next. So here we are in 2025, I was accepted into the program. I was like, yay, my people. And you know, [00:37:00] my expectations was met. In fact, it was exceeded. Very exceeded because I didn't know these things that i'm learning now. I didn't know how much I needed them until I learned them. In my time with Lavender Phoenix, as I'm reflecting to this point, graduation being three weeks out, I realized that before joining this cohort, my heart and my spirit was in a really bad place, and I think a lot of people could resonate. There's genocides, ethnic cleansings, and just terrible things happening all over the world, and there's like a dichotomy of people who are trying so hard and then there's a dichotomy of people who are unaffected by it. And so my spirit and my heart was so broken down seems really dramatic, but it wasn't being rejuvenated for sure. And so, being in this space and being in a [00:38:00] container that's just honesty and vulnerability and it's all rooted in each other's liberation really replenish that cup. The teachings and the knowledge and the wisdom that I'm getting, it's helping me add more to my North Star, which I'm really thankful of because I didn't know this is what I needed in March. Cheryl (Host): That is so beautiful. So much of what's going on right now by the systems that be, the powers that be, it's meant to isolate us and to make us feel exactly what you said. Capitalism isolates us and keeps us in that place because that's how it benefits . So Lavender Phoenix is summer organizing program, what I'm hearing from you is this revolutionary space that is counter to that. It's filled with hope and dreaming for a better world. So how is that being informed in River of Life, in the storytelling leadership development that you are developing within Lavender Phoenix's membership?  Mar (LavNix): Oh, yes. I'm [00:39:00] understanding the responsibility on how I move in this space. And so before the cohort of the River of Life project presents, it's actually gonna be me and another facilitator going to share our stories. And so we're also in the act of being vulnerable and honest and really wanting the others to witness us as we will witness them. We've removed kind of that superiority in that space. When I think of this, it brings me back to Freire's idea of an engaged pedagogy, but not necessarily like an educator and a student, but like removing hierarchies, which I think is really, a value that's rooted in, or lavender Phoenix is rooted in that value. There's no hierarchy, but there is ranks and we all see each other as equals. It's really beautiful to be able to see that and then know how I move in this [00:40:00] space to prepare our cohort. I hope that my storytelling, I can only hope, I do not know how it's gonna be received inshallah it's received super well. But I really do hope that they see how vulnerable I also get and how I'm doing this so that I could build deeper relationships with these people as I continue my journey with Lavender, Phoenix and to them as well. I hope these values, if not already present in our people, this project helps them cultivate that even further.  Cheryl (Host): I wanna ask what is something you want to share with our listeners who were in a similar space as you who felt lost and that they wanted something to grow in. What advice would you give?  Mar (LavNix): This is a really beautiful question [00:41:00] and So many things flooded my brain as you were asking this question, but i'm feeling more pulled and called to share this one thing . As I'm going through the summer organizer program, I really realized the importance of tending to myself so that I could show up for others. I have to be able to know how to advocate for my needs and what I need so that I can be in spaces with other people. It's so important that I know how to acknowledge my shame or whatever pain points I'm experiencing and let that not be a hindrance to the work, but integrate it in a way that I will tend to it, and by tending to it, I can continue doing the work. And I know it's really [00:42:00] hard to prioritize yourself when it feels like you should prioritize everything else in the world right now, but I am really learning that that's what I needed to do. When I say prioritize myself, I'm not saying oh, I need to go do this and I need to go drink all my water. Yes, also care for our physical bodies and our mental bodies, but also taking time to know who I am as a person and what I could offer to the movement, and knowing how to communicate to others in the movement so that I could show up as a better organizer. And so the final words that I will have to share is I hope everyone who's hearing this shows the love that they have for other people to themselves [00:43:00] too.  Cheryl (Host): That was so beautiful. What you just shared right now about tending to yourself that's part of the work too. And that's so counterintuitive, I feel. This project that you're leading, the river of life where the focus is so much on your story and honoring who you are, I think that is the true essence of what it means to be trans and queer. Showing up with your whole self and embracing that. And in turn, by doing that, you are holding everybody else too, that very practice. To find out more about Lavender Phoenix Mar, how can our listeners plug into Lavender Phoenix's work?  Mar (LavNix): Follow us on Instagram or check out Lavender, Phoenix website. We post a lot. Sign up for the newsletter. Volunteer. We're really cool. Or just look at the staff and see if anybody calls you and you wanna hit them up. We're so awesome. Cheryl (Host): Thank you for joining us on tonight's show, Mar, and for sharing your experiences on Lavender Phoenix's [00:44:00] summer organizing program with all of All of the links that Mar mentioned on how to stay in touch with Lavender Phoenix's work be available in our show notes as per usual. We are so grateful, thank you again, Mar! Next up, we're joined by Katie from Hmong Innovating Politics. Katie. Welcome, welcome. I'm so happy to have you on our show tonight. Would you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Katie (HIP): Hi everyone. My name is Katie. I use she her pronouns. My Hmong name is ING and I mainly introduce myself as ING to my community, especially elders because one ING is my given name. Katie is like a self-assigned name. In my work with HIP I've been trying to figure out what feels more natural when, but I do catch myself introducing myself to my Hmong community. And yeah, I'm totally cool if folks referring to me as Katie Oring and my ask is just pronouncing my name correctly. Who are my people? Who's my community? I would say my community is my family. And then the young people that I work [00:45:00] with, the elders in my community, the ones who would like to claim me, my team. I would say Hmong women that I've met through some of the work that I do at my volunteer org, and oh my goodness, there're so many people. My friends, oh my gosh, if my friends are listening to this, my friends are my community, they're my people. They keep me grounded, alive and fun. My siblings. All of the folks in Fresno and Sacramento that have been a part of the spaces that I've shared at HIP and the spaces that we've created together.  Cheryl (Host): You are a community leader through and through . For folks who are listening and don't know, Hmong Innovating Politics is one of the AACRE groups and it has two different hubs basically in Central California, one in Sacramento, and one in Fresno. Katie, do you mind sharing a little bit about HIP and the work that you all do? Katie (HIP): Yeah. So, we are a power building organization and what does that mean, right? One is that we are [00:46:00] a part of empowering and supporting our community to become active change makers in their community. We believe that those who are most impacted by issues should also be the ones that receive resources and training to lead solutions and design, the dreams of their community. A framework that we use is called Belong Believe Become. We want to create space where young people feel their belongingness, know that they are rooted here in their community, and that they have a place. The believing part of our framework is that we want young people to also see themselves and see themselves as leaders. In their community and leadership can mean many forms, right? There's like passive and active leadership, and we want young people to know that there is enough space in this world for everyone in whichever capacity, they're choosing to show up in their community. The important piece of believing is that, believing that you also like matter and that your decisions are also impactful. And then become is that. [00:47:00] we share this framework and it's circular because we notice that some people can come into our space feeling like I know exactly who I'm gonna be. I know exactly what I wanna do, and feel really disconnected from their history and their, and the multiple parts of their identities. belong, believe become is cyclical and it's wherever you're at. And in this third piece of becoming it is that our young people know that they are leading the charge and transforming systems. That they are shifting the narratives of our community, that they get to own the narratives of our community, and that they are a part of the Power building our community as well. Cheryl (Host): Yeah, I love that . As we're talking, I'm noticing that you talk so much about young people and how so much of your work's framework is centered around young people. Do you mind giving context into that? So much of HIP's programming is on youth leadership, and so I'm wondering what does that look like programming wise and especially right now in the summer? Katie (HIP): Yeah, so it's more [00:48:00] recently that HIP has been identifying ourselves as a power building organization. Before we had claimed our work as base building, and this is through our civic engagement work for voter engagement and empowerment, and turning out the vote that, that is like what we, our organization was like centered on. Through that work, what we noticed was that like cycles and seasons after season, it was young people coming back and then they started asking are you all gonna have like consistent programming space for us, or is it just gonna always be around the election cycle? Through our civic engagement work, a framework that we use is the IVE model, integrated voter engagement. And that is that you are relationship building year after year, even outside of the election season. And so then it was how do we be more intentional about centering the people who are coming to us and centering the people who are shifting and challenging and pushing our leadership. And that was to [00:49:00] then move and prioritize the young people in our community. I think it's been maybe four or five years since this shift where we've really prioritized young people and really centered our work around youth justice. So then we had to create these spaces. Civic engagement work had primarily consisted of phone banking and canvassing and through that I think a lot of young people were then getting firsthand experience of this is like what it's like to be angry about these issue in my community. This is also what it's like to hold space for other people to go through and process their emotions. And then it was like, how do we train and skill up our young people to not only listen to their community, but be able to strategize and lead and take their ideas and dreams and put 'em into action. At the time folks working in our civic engagement programs were high school youth, college transitional age, young adults who are not in college. And we even had parent [00:50:00] age folks in our programs as well. In figuring out how do we better support our young folks was that a lot of young people were asking for more like designated space for youth that are in high school. The other request was can you all not be college based because not all young adults go to college in our community, yet we still wanted to access the programs. We had to strategize around these pieces. Also at the time when we were running civic engagement program, we were also building up our trans and queer work in the Central Valley and figuring out like what is HIP's place in this work? So that landed us into three programs. We have a program called Tsev which is TSEV. Um, and that means House in Hmong, but it's an acronym. It stands for Transforming Systems, empowering Our Village, and the reason why we named our youth program that is in the Hmong community, we refer to our community a lot “lub zos” which means village in English. And so that is why we wanted to name our program with something around the word village and then also [00:51:00] home, belongingness, right? We wanted our program to signify belonging. And so that is what landed us in this program. This program is based at a high school and we train cohorts of youth and the curriculum that we cover in all of our programs are pretty similar, but they are adjusted to be more relevant to the age group and the experiences that we are serving. So we have our high school program. We have our trans and queer young adult program called QHIP, queer Hmong intersectional Pride. And then we also have a young adult program called the Civic Engagement Fellowship, but I feel like we're gonna be revamping next year, so we might have a new name next year. And that one is, open to all young adults of all gender and sexuality. The projects that is focused in that is what's coming up on the election. So specific propositions and measures or whatever we are bringing to the ballot. And then with QHIP, it is very focused on intentionally building up leadership in the trans and queer community. [00:52:00] Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): You all tackle power building in so many different intersections, and I think that's so brilliant. You really tailor these spaces to the needs of your community and you're always listening to your community. That is honestly such a theme within the AACRE network. Could you tell us how these groups stay active during the summer?  Katie (HIP): Yeah! During the summer, we close off the cohort in June when the school year ends. And so we're actually in the assessment phase of this program right now. Our seniors throughout the summer go through a one-on-one exit with one of the staff in Fresno or Sacramento. After the senior exit closes out, then we'll be doing a overall annual assessment with all of the young people that were in the program this year. We're actually closing both these pieces out next week. We try to make things fun, right? So for the one-on-ones, we'll all come to the office and we'll have the one-on-one exit interviews and after that we'll go get lunch. somewhere cute, somewhere fun. Then with the end of the year evals, after we complete them for everyone, we'll just hang out. This [00:53:00] year we're planning to do like a paint by numbers night. And then we always somehow end up karaoking. For QHIP, our trans and queer young adult program we actually partner with Lavender Phoenix and have them attend the leadership exchange program that's happening right now. We did our own onboarding and then we celebrated the month of pride. And we also celebrated the trans march. Then after that transition into the leadership exchange program at Lavender Phoenix. After that program, I believe our lead members are going to be designing some projects this summer. And then they'll have the rest of the summer and hours to do their projects, and then we'll eventually close out with a retreat with them. Cheryl (Host): And for our listeners out there, do you mind giving a quick a preview on what lavender, Phoenix's leadership exchange program is and how you all work in tandem with each other?  Katie (HIP): Yeah. Okay. I know in the past, we've sent our more new to organizing leaders [00:54:00] to the leadership exchange program. This year the intention is that we wanted to send leaders from our community who might already have some organizing experience who have some experience in social justice and movement work. And so, during this I think some of my favorite things from the leadership exchange program is teaching folks how to ask for help. I think a lot of our young adults navigate their lives not knowing who to turn to for help and how to formulate and ask that is clear and supportive of their needs. So that's something that we really appreciate through the leadership exchange program. And another piece is mutual aid funding. Lavender Phoenix trains up leaders around fundraising support and that's something I'm really looking forward to our young people gaining. The other piece is ultimately training of trans and queer leaders in our community so that we can continue to sustain this movement and this lifelong work of trans and queer liberation. The leadership exchange program has been able to equip folks with very necessary skills so that they can continue to sustain trans and queer [00:55:00] leadership. I bring in the fundraising piece because, I think a lot of young people that I work with, they're so scared to ask for resource support, especially money. And I think a lot of it comes with our own family trauma around finances, right? So, I'm excited to see what they debrief about and what they reflect on.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. It really sounds like all of these programs that you all do are really building up leaders for the long term of our movements. Asking for help is so related to navigating money, trauma and is so key in shaping liberatory futures. For folks out there who wanna get plugged into some of HIP's programming work, how can we stay in touch with you all? Katie (HIP): Our Instagram is the best spot. And then on our Instagram you can click on the little short link to sign up for our newsletter. We have some volunteer opportunities coming up in the month of August so if folks in the Central Valley wanna support with one of our community engagement [00:56:00] surveys, either to partake in the survey or to support us in doing the outreach and getting the word out so that folks complete the survey. There's two ways that you can participate with us. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Thanks, Katie, and of course all of those links will be available in our show notes. Thanks so much for coming on our show tonight, Katie, and thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll see you next time. [00:57:00] [00:58:00]  The post APEX Express – August 21, 2025 Sumer Programming in the AACRE Network appeared first on KPFA.

It's finally time to share our thoughts on the wildly popular Korean dating show, Better Late Than Single. We loved the concept and thought it had great promise in the early episodes. But we have some thoughts on how it all played out as well as some suggestions for the next season.Harper's Bazaar Singapore - Your Guide to Better Late Than SingleK-Pop Rec of the Week: Jin "Another Level" Live PerformanceReady to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life.★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★ ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

In Redefining the Immigrant South: Indian and Pakistani Immigration to Houston During the Cold War (University of North Carolina Press), Uzma Quraishi (Sam Houston State University) follows the Cold War-era journeys of South Asian international students from U.S. Information Service reading rooms in India and Pakistan, to the halls of the University of Houston, to the suburban subdivisions of Alief and Sugar Land. This student migration between 1960 and 1980 shows how public diplomacy programs overseas catalyzed the arrival of highly educated, middle-class Asians in the U.S. before the Hart-Celler Act of 1965. Drawing on archival documents, GIS data, and oral interviews, Quraishi investigates how Indian and Pakistani immigrants forged an “interethnic” identity in Houston and located themselves—both socially and geographically—in the midst of a booming yet segregated Sunbelt city. She conceptualizes their mobility as “brown flight,” a process that simultaneously strengthened ethnic bonds even as it reinforced racial and class barriers. By exploring the links between international and local scales, Redefining the Immigrant South will interest scholars from many fields, including Asian American history; histories of the U.S. South, immigration, and U.S. foreign relations; and sub/urban studies. Ian Shin is assistant professor of History and American Culture at the University of Michigan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In Redefining the Immigrant South: Indian and Pakistani Immigration to Houston During the Cold War (University of North Carolina Press), Uzma Quraishi (Sam Houston State University) follows the Cold War-era journeys of South Asian international students from U.S. Information Service reading rooms in India and Pakistan, to the halls of the University of Houston, to the suburban subdivisions of Alief and Sugar Land. This student migration between 1960 and 1980 shows how public diplomacy programs overseas catalyzed the arrival of highly educated, middle-class Asians in the U.S. before the Hart-Celler Act of 1965. Drawing on archival documents, GIS data, and oral interviews, Quraishi investigates how Indian and Pakistani immigrants forged an “interethnic” identity in Houston and located themselves—both socially and geographically—in the midst of a booming yet segregated Sunbelt city. She conceptualizes their mobility as “brown flight,” a process that simultaneously strengthened ethnic bonds even as it reinforced racial and class barriers. By exploring the links between international and local scales, Redefining the Immigrant South will interest scholars from many fields, including Asian American history; histories of the U.S. South, immigration, and U.S. foreign relations; and sub/urban studies. Ian Shin is assistant professor of History and American Culture at the University of Michigan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sociology

In Redefining the Immigrant South: Indian and Pakistani Immigration to Houston During the Cold War (University of North Carolina Press), Uzma Quraishi (Sam Houston State University) follows the Cold War-era journeys of South Asian international students from U.S. Information Service reading rooms in India and Pakistan, to the halls of the University of Houston, to the suburban subdivisions of Alief and Sugar Land. This student migration between 1960 and 1980 shows how public diplomacy programs overseas catalyzed the arrival of highly educated, middle-class Asians in the U.S. before the Hart-Celler Act of 1965. Drawing on archival documents, GIS data, and oral interviews, Quraishi investigates how Indian and Pakistani immigrants forged an “interethnic” identity in Houston and located themselves—both socially and geographically—in the midst of a booming yet segregated Sunbelt city. She conceptualizes their mobility as “brown flight,” a process that simultaneously strengthened ethnic bonds even as it reinforced racial and class barriers. By exploring the links between international and local scales, Redefining the Immigrant South will interest scholars from many fields, including Asian American history; histories of the U.S. South, immigration, and U.S. foreign relations; and sub/urban studies. Ian Shin is assistant professor of History and American Culture at the University of Michigan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/south-asian-studies

A Sea of Wealth: The Omani Empire and the Making of an Oceanic Marketplace (U California Press, 2025) is a sweeping retelling of the Omani position in the Indian Ocean. Here the reign of Oman's longest-serving ruler, Saʿid bin Sultan, offers a keyhole through which we can peer to see the entangled histories of Arabia and the Gulf, South Asia, and East Africa in the Omani Empire. In centering this empire, Nicholas P. Roberts shows how Arabs, Africans, and Asians actively shaped the conditions of commercial engagement in the Western Indian Ocean, uniting the empire's domains into a single oceanic marketplace in which Europeans and Americans had to accede if they wished to succeed. Drawing upon sources in three languages from four continents, A Sea of Wealth is a vivid narrative full of colorful characters that upturns many conventional understandings of our modern world. Nicholas P. Roberts was formerly Assistant Professor of History at Norwich University and the Howell Fellow for Arabian Peninsula and Gulf Studies at the University of Virginia. He is currently earning a JD at Case Western Reserve University. Ahmed Yaqouob AlMaazmi is an Assistant Professor of History at the United Arab Emirates University, with interests in the intersections of empire, science, slavery, law, environmental infrastructures, and material culture in the Arabian Peninsula and the wider Indian Ocean world. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

A Sea of Wealth: The Omani Empire and the Making of an Oceanic Marketplace (U California Press, 2025) is a sweeping retelling of the Omani position in the Indian Ocean. Here the reign of Oman's longest-serving ruler, Saʿid bin Sultan, offers a keyhole through which we can peer to see the entangled histories of Arabia and the Gulf, South Asia, and East Africa in the Omani Empire. In centering this empire, Nicholas P. Roberts shows how Arabs, Africans, and Asians actively shaped the conditions of commercial engagement in the Western Indian Ocean, uniting the empire's domains into a single oceanic marketplace in which Europeans and Americans had to accede if they wished to succeed. Drawing upon sources in three languages from four continents, A Sea of Wealth is a vivid narrative full of colorful characters that upturns many conventional understandings of our modern world. Nicholas P. Roberts was formerly Assistant Professor of History at Norwich University and the Howell Fellow for Arabian Peninsula and Gulf Studies at the University of Virginia. He is currently earning a JD at Case Western Reserve University. Ahmed Yaqouob AlMaazmi is an Assistant Professor of History at the United Arab Emirates University, with interests in the intersections of empire, science, slavery, law, environmental infrastructures, and material culture in the Arabian Peninsula and the wider Indian Ocean world. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/middle-eastern-studies

It's been a while since we reviewed a drama where we all don't agree, so thanks Dear Hongrang, for making Lia and Amy want to fight Megan. Just kidding, it's not that bad... or is it?Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Meds that require special skill to start: Antipsychotics, Cobenfy, and a research update on antidepressant metabolism in Asians.CME: Take the CME Post-Test for this EpisodePublished On: 08/11/2025Duration: 12 minutes, 19 secondsChris Aiken, MD and Kellie Newsome, PMHNP have disclosed no relevant financial or other interests in any commercial companies pertaining to this educational activity.

Join Lia Riley and her guest Un as they reflect on their summer journeys through Korea, sharing the quiet moments and unexpected discoveries that made their trips memorable. From BTS concerts, to witnessing a Squid Game parade in Seoul to wandering through Jeonju's peaceful hanok villages, they talk about the experiences that lingered long after they returned home. Along the way, they'll share their most useful travel tips—the practical advice that comes from actually being there, making wrong turns, and finding those perfect hidden spots. Whether it's navigating Seoul's neighborhoods, connecting with locals, or enjoying happenstance moments, hopefully listeners will glean some insight on their own future travelsReady to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★