Podcast appearances and mentions of Sam Simon

Life Outside Poker is a podcast for PokerNews hosted by Connor Richards that seeks to pull back the curtain on poker players and allow viewers and listeners to get to know them on a personal level. In the 29th episode, Connor talks with actress and high-stakes poker player Jennifer Tilly about the 20th anniversary of her World Series of Poker (WSOP) bracelet win, high-stakes cash games, the recent cancellation of Chucky, Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, voicing Bonnie Swanson on Family Guy, dating poker pro Phil Laak, and her goal of getting into the Poker Hall of Fame. Tilly also revealed that she tried to stop her ex-husband, Sam Simon, from creating The Simpsons and told the story of how she was nearly the voice of Marge Simpson. This interview was filmed inside PokerGO Studio in Las Vegas ahead of the One Step Closer Foundation All In for CP Charity Event on April 26. The Life Outside Poker podcast is available on major streaming platforms including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud and iHeartRadio. You can also watch the interview with Jennifer Tilly by heading to the PokerNews YouTube channel. Be sure to follow Jennifer Tilly and Connor Richards on X. Learn More About Life Outside Poker! Timestamps Time Topic 0:00 Intro 0:34 One Step Closer Foundation 2:43 Celebrity poker 6:57 20th anniversary of bracelet win 10:00 WSOP video game 11:17 Getting seriously into poker 14:15 High-stakes cash games 16:41 First learning poker 21:08 Meeting Phil Laak 25:19 Playing Phil heads-up 30:33 Chucky canceled 32:52 Real Housewives 37:21 Family Guy 38:07 Almost playing Marge on The Simpsons 44:31 TV recommendation 45:00 Favorite life lesson from poker 47:43 Poker Hall of Fame

All Home Care Matters and our host, Lance A. Slatton are honored to welcome Sam "Dementia Man" Simon as guest to the show.   About Sam Simon:   Sam Simon grew up in El Paso, Texas. In 1970 graduated law school to work with Ralph Nader's first Public Interest Research Group, in Washington, DC, and spent about 35 years as a prominent lawyer in the public interest field. His became known for his work in breaking up ATT, which got him appearances on Face the Nation, Phil Donahue Show, Today, GMA –even Oprah Winfrey once.   He later became a senior fellow working for Intersections, the social justice ministry of the Collegiate Church of New York. He was trained in theatrical improv, which became the start of this theatrical career. His first play, The Actual Dance, Loves Ultimate Journey Through Breast Cancer, was about his role as carepartner (he says lovepartner) of his wife during her breast cancer. He toured that play for a nearly a decade, until diagnosed with Early Stage Alzheimer's and has since written a new play, Dementia Man, an Existential Journey about this experience – to date. He advocates in the work for a radical new understanding of accessibility and support for people with cognitive issues.

In this episode of ‘The Aging Well Podcast', Dr. Jeff Armstrong is joined by Samuel Simon, also known as “Dementia Man.” Sam shares his personal journey from being a public interest lawyer to becoming an advocate for those living with Alzheimer's disease. He discusses the impact of his diagnosis, the importance of advocacy, and the need to change the narrative surrounding cognitive decline. Sam emphasizes the value of living a meaningful life despite the challenges of Alzheimer's and highlights the importance of support systems, such as cognitive navigators, in enhancing the quality of life for individuals with cognitive impairments. In this conversation, Sam Simon shares his personal experiences with cognitive decline, the challenges of caregiving, and the emotional journey that accompanies these experiences. He discusses the importance of finding meaning and joy in relationships, the financial burdens faced by families, and the need for policy changes to better support those affected by cognitive disorders. Through his storytelling, Sam emphasizes the significance of living a meaningful life despite the challenges posed by cognitive decline.

The Simpsons writer and showrunner Mike Reiss shares behind-the-scenes secrets from 36+ years on the iconic animated series. From working with comedy legends like Sam Simon, Al Jean, and Conan O'Brien to writing for Johnny Carson and witnessing the wild beginnings of FOX, Mike recounts hilarious Hollywood stories and life lessons from his travels to 147 countries. He reveals the origin of the Simpsons, why Harvard wasn't funny, how VCRs and fan feedback helped shape the show, and why the writers' room was like a "kibbutz but more Jewish." It's a deep dive into comedy, creativity, and the wild ride of creating a global phenomenon. Follow Mike's Substack: https://substack.com/@mikereiss Get Paul's Book: https://www.paulollinger.com/the-book

When Sam Simon's wife was diagnosed with breast cancer, he used his theatrical experience to chronicle his journey as a caregiver. And when he was diagnosed with cognitive decline in 2022, he turned that into a theatrical experience as well. Today, his one-man play, Dementia Man: An Existential Journey, recounts his journey and reshapes the narrative for families living with dementia and cognitive decline, offering hope and encouragement along the way.  In this episode, you'll learn: How Sam discovered the power of theater. How being on stage and talking about his journey has helped him see his condition differently. What others can learn about living with a terminal condition.

Aaron and Josh Sarnecky are here to talk about The Simpsons for the series' 35th anniversary. Joining them is Simpsons fan Stefan Thomas, who previously covered Mean Girls with the duo. The Simpsons is an adult animated sitcom created by Matt Groening, who developed the show with Sam Simon and James L. Brooks. It is based on shorts originating from The Tracy Ullman Show, beginning in 1987. The Simpsons series premiered on FOX on December 17, 1989.  Now in its 36th season, over 700 episodes of the series have aired. It is the longest running American animated TV show, as well the longest running American scripted primetime series. The titular family lives in the fictional city of Springfield. It consists of father Homer (Dan Castellaneta), mother Marge (Julie Kavner), son Bart (Nancy Cartwright), daughter Lisa (Yeardley Smith), and baby girl Maggie (Nancy Cartwright, Yeardley Smith). The show is notable for its many celebrity guest voices, including James Earl Jones, Meryl Streep, and Phil Hartman, and Kelsey Grammer.  The Simpsons is considered one of the greatest TV shows of all time and is credited with starting the adult cartoon boom. In 2007, The Simpsons Movie debuted on the silver screen. The series has won 37 Primetime Emmy Awards, including multiple for Outstanding Animated Program and many for its voice cast.  Aaron, Josh, and Stefan discuss their past experiences with The Simpsons before going into its first episode, the Christmas special. They talk about the characters, animation, humor, and legacy of the show. They also discuss when the show started to decline in quality. For more adult cartoons, you can listen to Josh and Aaron's podcasts on Family Guy and Futurama. The Simpsons is streaming on Disney+

In this episode of Bedside Matters we explore hearing loss and the transformative role of hearing dogs in assisting individuals with severe impairments. Guest Barb Velasquez from the Sam Simon Charitable Foundation explains the rigorous training process for hearing dogs and the organization's commitment to rescuing shelter animals. Peter shares his wife's experience with hearing loss and the life-changing potential of these companions. Learn more about the Sam Simon Charitable Foundation here: https://www.ssfdogs.org/about-us/

Dan O'Keefe joined me to discuss growing up in Chappaqua: writing for the Harvard Lampoon; joining the National Lampoon; writing letters from the editors; favorite pieces; writing for MTV and Comedy Central; writing for Cracked Magazine; submitting packets for Letterman & Conan; getting hired by Jay Leno; Jay-walking; Sprang (Spam and Tang); late night ghetto; grew up without TV; read a lot of books; Norm MacDonald; Michaell O'Donoghue; working on Married with Children; faxing ideas to Seinfeld; them liking the toothbrush in toilet and adopting a highway ideas; combining food and sex; milk baths; "The Frogger" and someone's quest to beat George Costanza's high score; Marx Brothers; can remember who pitched what in writers room; Joyce DeWitt and Three's Company; Puerto Rican Day Parade episode; Drew Carey Show; Drew's surprise cruise; episode "Drew and the Gang Law"; wanting to hang out with Joey Ramone but work had to be done; Brian Scully; Jerry Belson; Sam Simon sitcom Shaping Up; episodes "Racial Tension Play", "Cain and Mabel", "Good Vibrations" - director Gerry Cohen put a vibrator in Drew Carey's bag; "Tw Days of the Condo" episode; trying to produce a sitcom with UK comedian Al Murray; Elvis Costello; The League; Chelsea Handler; Beavis & Butthead

Mike Teverbaugh joins me and discusses his names pronunciation; his new play, The Mostly True Story of a Common Scold; his other play, The Dugout; watching Captain Kangaroo as a child; Batman 66; going to UCLA to become a sportswriter; meeting his wife and future co-writer; writing spec scripts; joining an entertainment softball team; that leading to working on Who's the Boss; Billy; working on Getting By; going to Roc for season 3; being thankful they didn't write for the live show; Almost Perfect and the resort episode; being writing partners with your wife; getting Drew Carey and not having to worry about being cancelled every year; huge writer's rom; mistakes episode; working with Jerry Belson & Sam Simon; Drew Carey's surprise end of season cruise and Mike gambles against Sam; Life on a Stick and being proud of writing for "one of the 25 worst sitcoms of all time"; Twenty Good Years; working with Marsh McCall & John Lithgow; choosing Sullivan & Son over a Bill Burr animated project; he and his wife writing on Dreamwork Dragons; Dreamworks interference leads to them leading; Last Man Standing; retiring from TV and writing ten minute plays with his wife.

79 year old Sam Simon could tell that his memory was fading and finally was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's disease.  Faced with this, Sam has dedicated himself to awareness of what Alzheimer's is, how it makes you feel, and how you could and should embrace people experiencing this incurable disease.Sam started his career in Washington, DC as a lawyer for Ralph Nader's first advocacy group. He then spent 25 years as head of a public affairs firm. In that work, he was often in the news, with appearances on Face The Nation, Phil Donahue Show, Oprah Winfrey Show, Good Morning America, and many more. His first play, The Actual Dance, Love's Ultimate Journey Through Breast Cancer, has toured from 2013 to the present. In 2021 The Actual Dance was turned into an award-winning biography.  His new play is called Dementia man.On this episode of Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars, Sam performs a preview, that he calls the "Showcase Version" of Dementia Man and then answers questions about his experience and the show.If you'd like to learn more about Dementia Man, or even book a performance in your town, please visit www.dementiaman.com or email Sam and his wife Susan at sam@dementiaman.com.Home Care Heroes and Day Service Stars is produced and sponsored by Ankota - If you provide services that enable older or disabled people to continue living at home , Ankota can provide you the software to successfully run your agency. Visit us at https://www.ankota.com. 

We talk about the current production of Kenosha's Lakeside Players, "Puffs - or Seven Increasingly Eventful Years at a Certain School of Magic and Magic," a thinly veiled parody of a certain popular series of books and films about a certain bespectacled young wizard-in-training and his friends and adversaries. The production opened this past Friday and runs for the next two weekends. I speak with two members of thecast - Hannah Wade and Sam Simon - who are music theater majors at Carthage College.

 Today, Hunter is joined by professor Samantha Simon, an Assistant Professor of Sociology at the University of Arizona. This episode is a deep dive into Professor Simon's book, Before the Badge: How the Academy Training Shapes Police Violence. In it, Professor Simon embed herself into various police academy training programs to try and understand how police academies select, train, and prepare the next generation of police officers. Through her work, we gain an excellent insight into the challenges with changing the culture of violence that is so prevalent in American policing.   Guests: Samantha Simon PhD, Professor of Sociology, University of Arizona     Resources: Professor Simon's Faculty Page https://sociology.arizona.edu/person/samantha-simon Pick up a Copy of Before the Badge https://nyupress.org/9781479813278/before-the-badge/ Coverage of SrA Roger Fortson https://weartv.com/news/local/okaloosa-county-community-rallies-for-justice-at-town-hall-after-sra-fortsons-shooting https://weartv.com/news/local/hurlburt-field-airman-identified-as-man-shot-dead-in-officer-involved-shooting# https://weartv.com/news/local/okaloosa-county-sheriffs-office-fires-deputy-involved-in-fatal-air-force-airman-shooting#     Contact Hunter Parnell:                                 Publicdefenseless@gmail.com  Instagram @PublicDefenselessPodcast Twitter                                                                 @PDefenselessPod www.publicdefenseless.com  Subscribe to the Patron www.patreon.com/PublicDefenselessPodcast  Donate on PayPal https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=5KW7WMJWEXTAJ Donate on Stripe https://donate.stripe.com/7sI01tb2v3dwaM8cMN Trying to find a specific part of an episode? Use this link to search transcripts of every episode of the show! https://app.reduct.video/o/eca54fbf9f/p/d543070e6a/share/c34e85194394723d4131/home  

Adam Lapidus joins me to talk about using his initial; being 6' 9"; Conan O'Brien; NYC real estate; his father being childhood friends with Dave Davis and then reconnecting; meeting James L. Brooks and being asked to be a PA on Taxi at 16; going to NYU; getting a PA job on the Ellen Burstyn Show; Norman Steinberg; Megan Mulally; Jim Burrows secret of TV directing; writing freelance for Charles in Charge, It's a Living, and Who's the Boss; first staff job on Throb; pitching a Simpsons to Dave Davis who pitched it to James L. Brooks; Sam Simon being against it; favorite jokes in it; writing Brooke Shields in to meet her; doing the commentary track; getting a job on Full House; writing the Rigby the Rhino episode and his theme song; Cleghorne; writing Secret Service Guy, which never aired; writing a Weird Science; working on a Smart Guy; WB wanted to turn it into Dawson's Creek; it's creepy very special episode; Much Ado About Nothing for MTV; The Jersey for Disney; Tripping the Rift; Fatherhood; Phil of the Future and having an episode rejected because "children don't get irony"; Xiaolin Showdown; Suite Life of Zach and Cody; Brenda Song; easy to discuss line readings with child actors; "Cooking with Romeo and Juliet" favorite episode; Suite Life on Deck; Debbie Ryan; Jesse; using your daughter for stories; Bunk'd; Team Kaley; Disney micromanagement vs. Netflix freedom; quitting writing to teach at Boston University; winning Professor of the Year Award.

We explore how young people have made meaningful careers and lasting change working in the public interest with Sam Simon, editor of “Choosing the Public Interest: Essays From the First Public Interest Research Group” and Lisa Frank, Vice President and D.C. Director at The Public Interest Network and also Executive Director in the Washington Legislative Office at Environment America. Plus, the indomitable Chris Hedges stops by to report on his interviews with college students protesting the genocide in Gaza, which he chronicled in a Substack piece titled “The Nation's Conscience.”Sam Simon is an author, playwright, and attorney who co-founded the Public Interest Research Group with Ralph and the other Nader's Raiders in 1970. He compiled and edited the new book Choosing the Public Interest: Essays From the First Public Interest Research Group.This is something that every one of these themes have and that this movement has had—that the consumer, the user, the student, the pensioner have equal voice in our systems to help create the systems that are intended to benefit them, and not leave that power in the hands of corporate entities and profit-making enterprises. And that idea needs to continue to exist. And I'm glad that the Public Interest Network and PIRGS still thrive on many campuses.Sam SimonWhat I want to come out of this book is that average kids from average backgrounds ended up doing amazing things with their entire lives, because of the opportunity and the vision that they could do that.Sam SimonLisa Frank is Vice President and D.C. Director at The Public Interest Network. She is also Executive Director in the Washington Legislative Office at Environment America, where she directs strategy and staff for federal campaigns. Ms. Frank has won millions of dollars in investments in walking, biking and transit, and has helped develop strategic campaigns to protect America's oceans, forests and public lands from drilling, logging and road-building.The particular types of problems we're focused on at [PIRG] are ones that really have been created in a sense by our success as a country in growing. We're the wealthiest country the world has ever seen. We figured out how to grow more than enough food than we can eat, we produce more than enough clothing than we can wear, certainly more than enough plastic…And all of this abundance is leading to new types of problems…The problems that have either come about because of the progress we've made as a society and now we've got the ability to tackle them, or problems where—clean energy is an example—where there are problems that we newly have the ability to solve.Lisa FrankYou have Congress that passed these five laws that are being violated, with the result of huge death and destruction overseas— and not just in Gaza, but places like Iraq and Libya in the past. And they're talking about students trespassing at their own university, and nonviolent protests? The problem starts in Congress. They're the funders, the enablers, the surrenderers of their constitutional rights of oversight and war-making powers.Ralph NaderChris Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, who spent nearly two decades as a foreign correspondent in Central America, the Middle East, Africa and the Balkans. He is the host of The Chris Hedges Report, and he is a prolific author— his latest book is The Greatest Evil Is War.[Students] understand the nature of settler colonial regimes. The expansion or inclusion of students from wider backgrounds than were traditionally there at places like Princeton…has really added a depth and expanded the understanding within the university. So they see what's happening in Gaza, and they draw—rightly— connections to what we did to Native Americans, what the British did in India, what the British did in Kenya, what the French did in Algeria, and of course, they are correct.Chris Hedges[Students] have defied, quite courageously, the administrations of their universities, who are—kind of like the political class—bought and paid for by the Israel lobby, and in particular wealthy donors and the Democratic Party. And that is why these universities have responded to these nonviolent protests the way they have, with such overwhelming and draconian use of force.Chris HedgesIn Case You Haven't Heard with Francesco DeSantisNews 5/15/241. The New Republic reports the Federal Trade Commission has filed suit against Scott Sheffield, former CEO of oil and gas giant Pioneer Resources alleging that “voluminous evidence” suggests Sheffield “collaborated with fellow U.S. producers and the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries in order to keep crude oil prices ‘artificially' high.” As Matt Stoller explains in his newsletter, “after a bitter price war from 2014-2016, [American oil producers] got tired of competing on price with…the OPEC oil cartel, and at some point from 2017-2021, decided to join the cartel and cut supply to the market. This action had the [e]ffect of raising oil prices, costing oil consumers something on the order of $200 billion a year.” Stoller claims that this price-fixing scheme between the OPEC cartel and the American oil oligopoly caused 27% of all inflation-related price increases in 2021. Progressive lawmakers such as Senator Bernie Sanders who tried to raise the alarm about what he dubbed “greedflation” were dismissed at the time, but like so many times before, have been vindicated by the simple fact that American corporate greed always exceeds expectations.2. Tal Mitnick and Sofia Orr, the two Israeli teenagers conscientiously objecting to being drafted into Israel's campaign of terror in Gaza, have sent a letter to President Biden excoriating him for his unconditional support of the Netanyahu regime, per the Intercept. The two heroic peaceniks write “Your unconditional support for [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu's policy of destruction, since the war began, has brought our society to the normalization of carnage and to the trivialization of human lives…It is American diplomatic and material support that prolonged this war for so long. You are responsible for this, alongside our leaders. But while they're interested in prolonging the war for political reasons, you have the power to make it stop.” These kids wrote this letter before reporting for their latest round of prison sentences, which have reached unprecedented lengths. As the article notes, “The refuseniks are not alone in their opposition, nor in the treatment they face. Throughout the war, Israelis have taken to the streets of Tel Aviv and Jerusalem to protest the war and Netanyahu's government. This past week, Israeli police arrested and beat protesters and hostage family members calling for an end to the war, just the latest example of Israelis being punished for voicing dissent or sympathy with the people of Gaza.”3. Al Jazeera reports yet another Biden Administration official has made public his resignation over the genocide in Gaza. Army Major Harrison Mann, who resigned in November, posted a letter Monday wherein he expressed “incredible shame and guilt” over the United States' “unqualified support” for Israel's war. Explaining why he waited so long to come forward with the reasoning behind his resignation, Mann wrote “I was afraid. Afraid of violating our professional norms. Afraid of disappointing officers I respect. Afraid you would feel betrayed. I'm sure some of you will feel that way reading this,” yet he noted “At some point – whatever the justification – you're either advancing a policy that enables the mass starvation of children, or you're not.”4. At long last, Egypt has announced its intention to join South Africa's genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice, Al Arabiya reports. In a statement, the Egyptian foreign ministry said this decision comes on the heels of the “worsening severity and scope of Israeli attacks against Palestinian civilians in the Gaza Strip,” likely referring to the terror bombing campaign in Rafah, which the United States had previously identified as a “Red Line” in terms of material support. Egypt has faced international embarrassment over its soft line towards its militaristic neighbor and alleged mistreatment of Palestinian refugees trying to flee into Egypt. The country has also “called on the UN Security Council and countries of influence to take actions to reach a ceasefire in Gaza and halt military operations in Rafah, according to the statement.”5. On Wednesday, May 8th, the State Department report on whether Israel has violated U.S. international law was due to Congress. Instead, it was delayed. As POLITICO reported “The State Department has been working for months on the report, which will issue a determination on whether Israel has violated international humanitarian law since the war in Gaza began. If so, the U.S. would be expected to stop sending Israel military assistance.” When the report was finally released, it stated “it is ‘reasonable to assess' that US weapons have been used by Israeli forces in Gaza in ways that are ‘inconsistent' with international humanitarian law,” but the report stopped short of officially saying Israel violated the law, per CNN. The report goes on to say that investigations into potential violations are ongoing but the US “‘does not have complete information to verify' whether the US weapons ‘were specifically used' in alleged violations of international humanitarian law.” This equivocation in the face of genocide – using American weapons — will leave an ineradicable black mark on the already spotty human rights record of the U.S. State Department.6. Students for Justice in Palestine at Columbia University reports “Columbia…is under federal investigation for anti-Palestinian discrimination and harassment.” According to the group, Palestine Legal is representing four Palestinian students and the group itself. Senior attorney for Palestine Legal Radikah Sainath said in a statement “The law is clear— if universities do not cease their racist crackdowns against Palestinians and their supporters, they will risk losing federal funding.”7. On May 8th, the D.C. Metro Police Department cleared the protest encampment at the George Washington University, using pepper spray and brute force. According to the Associated Press, the police arrested 33 protesters. The AP quoted Moataz Salim, a Palestinian student at GW with family in Gaza, who said the authorities merely “destroyed a beautiful community space that was all about love.” He went on to say “Less than 10 hours ago, I was pepper sprayed and assaulted by police…And why? Because we decided to pitch some tents, hold community activities and learn from each other. We built something incredible. We built something game-changing.” The police broke up the encampment in the wee hours of the morning, just before D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser was slated to appear before hostile Republican lawmakers in Congress, leading many to believe she acted when and how she did out of sheer cowardice and political expediency. After the encampment was cleared, the hearing was canceled. Undeterred, these courageous students have continued to protest their institution's support of Israel's criminal war and per the American University Eagle, have now set up a second encampment. We urge Mayor Bowser not to bow to pressure from bloodthirsty Congressional Republicans a second time.8. The Seattle Times reports “The FAA has opened an investigation into Boeing's 787 Dreamliner after the company disclosed that employees in South Carolina falsified inspection records.” As the paper notes, “This is the latest in a long litany of lapses at Boeing that have come to light under the intense scrutiny of the company's quality oversight since a passenger cabin panel blew out on an Alaska Airlines flight in January.” That is to say nothing of the safety lapses leading to the Lion Air and Ethiopia Airlines crashes in 2019, that resulted in the deaths of all aboard both flights. Incredibly, “This new 787 quality concern is unrelated to the 787 fuselage gaps described as unsafe in an April congressional hearing by Boeing whistleblower Sam Salehpour.” As these critical safety failures and lies continue to come to light, the only question remaining is when is enough enough?9. Bloomberg labor reporter Josh Eidelson reports “The US government [has] raised concerns with Germany about alleged union-busting in Alabama by Mercedes, an unusual move that escalates scrutiny on its handling of the high-stakes union vote.” Mercedes is facing a momentous union election at its Alabama plant, led by the United Autoworkers, fresh off of unionizing the first ever foreign-owned auto plant in the country. Eidelson goes on to say that members of the European Commission have raised the matter with Mercedes as well, raising the heat on the company as the election kicks off. Among other union busting tactics, Labor Notes reports Mercedes has tried enlisting a pastor to tell workers via text “Here in Alabama, community is important, and family is everything. We believe it's important to keep work separate. But there's no denying, a union would have an impact beyond the walls of our plant.”10. Finally, the Chicago Sun-Times is out with a story on the success of Illinois' experiment with ending cash bail for pre-trial detention. As the article puts it, “Despite all the anguish over the Pretrial Fairness Act, [Cook County Judge Charles] Beach says he has been struck by how proceedings have significantly changed for the better in his courtroom. ‘I think we've come a very long way in the right direction…Things are working well.'” This piece describes how “Under the old system of cash bail, Beach — a supervising judge in the pretrial division — was often tasked with setting a dollar figure a person would have to post before being released, a decision that could force a family to skip the rent to post a bond. It was a process that could seem arbitrary, depending on the judge, the time of day and where in the state the hearing was held.” Beach himself goes on to say “There's a sense in the courtroom that taking money out of the equation has leveled the playing field.” The success of this reform should be taken very seriously by other states, particularly New York where Democrats have sought to roll back the state's attempts at ending cash bail following pressure from conservatives. Turns out, it works.This has been Francesco DeSantis. Get full access to Ralph Nader Radio Hour at www.ralphnaderradiohour.com/subscribe

What a CreepSeason 22, Episode 7Mark Schwahn “One Tree Hill showrunner and creep!One Tree Hill was a popular CW show that had all the ingredients for success - attractive actors, dramatic storylines, a complex timeline, and was filmed in North Carolina. However, the show was marred by the inappropriate behavior of its showrunner, Mark Schwahn. His harassment and mistreatment of the cast and crew were brought to light by writer Audrey Wauchope in a series of tweets in 2017, during the height of the “Me Too” movement. This followed the investigation of another CW showrunner, Andrew Kreisberg, who was accused of sexual harassment and creating an unsafe work environment on The Flash. Kreisberg was paid $10 million to leave. Today, we are discussing the impact of a toxic boss on a workplace, and the bravery of the women who spoke out against this behavior. Their actions have set a new standard for a safer and more respectful work environment, particularly after the recent strikes in the United States.Sources for this episode:· Buzz Feed· Buzz Feed 2· Buzz Feed 3· Drama Queens Podcast· Drama Queens Podcast (Apple)· Variety· Variety 2· Screen Rant· Screen Rant 2· EW· EW 2· EW 3· Decider· Insider· Hollywood Reporter· Best Life online· Deadline· Deadline 2· The Wrap· Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum podcast· AV Club· Burn it Down: Power, Complicity, and a Call for Change in Hollywood by Maureen RyanTrigger warnings: Sexual Harassment, sexual assault, and workplace abuseBe sure to follow us on social media. But don't follow us too closely … don't be a creep about it! Subscribe to us on Apple PodcastsTwitter: https://twitter.com/CreepPod @CreepPodFacebook: Join the private group!Instagram @WhatACreepPodcastVisit our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/whatacreepEmail: WhatACreepPodcast@gmail.comWe've got merch here! https://whatacreeppodcast.threadless.com/#Our website is www.whatacreeppodcast.comOur logo was created by Claudia Gomez-Rodriguez. Follow her on Instagram @ClaudInCloudThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5394615/advertisement

The critically acclaimed autobiographical story of a man who faces his diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease by actor and playwright Samuel A. Simon. Simon takes the stage as a man facing his cognitive decline and asks the hard questions of what to do next in the face of what he calls “an existential journey.” It is a peek into the head and heart of the struggle with a broken medical system and a personal and family challenge. Email sam@dementiaman.com  Dementia Man Website with Performance Calendar https://www.dementiaman.com/performance-calendar.html Brief outline of discussion 0:00 Personal experiences, career, and health challenges. 4:44 Cancer journey and its impact on partners.  9:37 Dementia diagnosis and treatment journey.  16:53 Dementia diagnosis and suicide prevention.  24:03 Living with dementia and finding purpose.  29:20 Disability rights and accessibility.  34:53 Cognitive impairment and accessibility in theater.  40:45 Dementia diagnosis and support.  47:51 Mental health, cognitive decline, and improvisation.  54:37 Dementia, Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's disease.  1:00:26 Dementia care and support.

Learn more at TheCityLife.org --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/citylifeorg/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/citylifeorg/support

Discussion of the FBI procedures and conspiracies with Sam Simon.

Being prematurely judged or misunderstood can be frustrating, limiting and even harmful. In the final episode of Season 2, artists and arts administrators share stories of pushing boundaries, subverting categories and defying expectations.Act One: “Up-Rising” with Emily Isaacson, a conductor and the founding director of Classical Uprising in Portland, Maine.Act Two: “Such Creatures” with Luke Greeff, a dancer, choreographer, circus artist, and educator in Chicago, Illinois.Act Three: “More Than Madness” with Sam Simon, a playwright, author and actor in McLean, Virginia.You can find a full transcript and more on APAP's website: https://apap365.org/podcast/You can find the resource Luke mentions in their story, Gender Expansive Practices in Dance Spaces: An Introduction here.Are you a performing arts worker with a story to tell? Submit it here: https://bit.ly/AWLpodsubmit

Noah and Lori Fetrick aka Ice from American Gladiators interview Tyler about several hauntings including being assaulted by a ghost on Demon Road. Lori tells us about what it was like to stay in Sam Simon's Haunted house. Yes, that Sam Simon that is one of the creators of the Simpsons. This was such a fun episode, and we were delighted to Lori join us as a guest co-host. Make sure to check out Lori's podcast Chillin with Ice and the documentary ‘Muscles & Mayhem: An Unauthorized Story of American Gladiators'. You can also follow Lori on social media @Lori.ice.fetrick. Make sure to check out our new website www.RealHauntingsPodcast.com You can visit our patreon at patreon.com/RealHauntings and email us at RealHauntingsPodcast@gmail.com or message us on tiktok and instagram @RealHauntingsPodcast and let us know what you think. Please rate and review the podcast on iTunes and Spotify. Don't forget, a new episode releases every Monday! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brian Pollack talked to me about his love for The Honeymooners and it's writer Leonard Stern; getting the job and working with Stern on Sledge Hammer!; writers on the picket line look so young; holding cue cards; working on the Horror Hall of Fame in 1974; writing for The Jim Nabors Show and Hollywood Squares at the same time; George Gobel; Rose Marie and Debbie Reynolds; subbing as Cher's cue card guy; "surprising" Paul Lynde for a TV show and finding him dead; Paul was hostile and anti-Semitic when drunk; not knowing Alexis' Smith's career when she did his Cheers; meeting Mert Rich; Phil Kellard gets fired from Hollywood Squares; Jeffersons stole his original pitch and then offered him another episode to write; writing for The Love Boat; favorite episodes of Sledge Hammer!; the cast; firing Jamie Foxx from Roc; getting the job on Cheers with the episode "Please Mr. Postman"; getting a congratulatory phone call from Sam Simon; guest star Admiral William J. Crowe; Rob Long & Dale Staley; favorite episodes; winning the Emmy for "The Days of Wine and Neurosis"; the Dead Emmy Section of the 30 Rock Post Office; seeing gues stars in old movies and not realizing their careers; meeting Hank Aaron at Hollywood Squares; Cheers season 11 was werid; Kirsite Alley asks for them back; their friendship; doing a Cheers sketch for Disney; going to the same psychiatrist as Rodney Dangerfield; being made to re-write Patrick Carlin's script for The George Carlin Show, drawing the ire of George; having to do a rewrite for a new writer on Sister, Sister and having the writer Xerox "her" great reviews; writing with Bob Iles; Sherman Hemsley; Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer; Charles Dutton rejects a Roc script; Roc goes lives; Charles Dutton wants them back; working with Brian Doyle-Murray; Dan Hedaya, Jay Thomas, and Rhea Perlman; Woody Harrelson; imdb mistakes; writing a Simpsons; Boat Trip; his odd array of neighbors

Sam Simon is the Founder and Chairman of Simon Group Holdings (SGH), which he formed in 1985 with the founding of Atlas Oil Company, headquartered in Taylor, Michigan. Simon Group Holdings, directly and through its subsidiaries, has interests in and is an active investment manager within the following sectors: Commercial Fuel Supply and Distribution; Oil Field Services; Logistics and Transportation; Commercial and Residential Real Estate; Aviation; Technology SaaS; and Insurance Solutions. The SGH Investment Management Team has active investments throughout the capital stack including: Venture Capital, Private Equity, Mezzanine, and Senior Debt. SGH has over 1,000 team members among its family of companies. In this episode we discuss: ✔️ Unlocking the power of company values: how they shape your culture and drive business success ✔️ Leading from the field: the power of hands-on management ✔️ Building a winning team: tips and strategies for attracting and retaining top talent in manufacturing (00:00:00) - Building a billion dollar company from scratch with Sam Simon (00:02:21) - Building a strong company culture with passion and communication (00:11:19) - Assessing business opportunities based on people and facilities, not just financials (00:16:14) - The importance of being in the field (00:20:54) - Tools for entrepreneurial clarity and focus (00:23:10) - The importance of hiring the right people and providing training (00:27:34) - Advice for young people starting their career Learn more about Simon Group Holdings: www.simongroupholdings.com Learn more about Sam Simon: https://www.simongroupholdings.com/leadership-team Follow Sam Simon on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samsimonceo ➡️ See more from Seraph: https://seraph.com/insights ➡️ Follow us on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/seraph-consulting-inc Seraph is a global enterprise consulting firm that partners with business leaders to handle their most complex supply chain, operations, and manufacturing challenges delivering long-term operational and leadership improvements. Seraph has extensive on-site industry experience in supporting clients across automotive, private equity, defense, medical device, electronics, energy infrastructure, and engineering engagements. The Seraph leadership team brings vast expertise across; crisis management, mergers, acquisitions, due diligence, restructuring, turn-around services, product launches, and logistics. Our four-phase process has been proven to provide quick payback and positive ROI, which is measured throughout customer engagement.

Michael Jamin sits down with one of his good friends (and former bosses) Jonathan Aibel who was a movie writer for Kung Fu Panda 1-3 and has worked on other greats like Trolls, Monster Trucks, The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water, and Monsters vs Aliens. If you dream of being a movie or TV writer, you won't want to miss this podcast episode!Show Notes:Jonathan Aibel IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0008743/Jonathan Aibel EMMYS: https://www.emmys.com/bios/jonathan-aibelJonathan Aibel Rotten Tomatoes: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/jonathan_aibelMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutogenerated Transcript:Jonathan Aibel (00:00:00):We knew storyboards, we knew how to read storyboards. We knew what happens in an editing room and how actors perform, right? So we came to it with production skills or an, an understanding of the process that that helped us come in and say, oh, I think you can, you can cut a few frames there and actually know what we were talking about.Michael Jamin (00:00:23):You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. Hey everyone. Welcome to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. I'm Michael Jamin, and I got a great guest for you today. This is my, this is one of my, this is one of my first bosses, actually. And yeah, yeah, John, it's true. I am here with John Abel one of the partner, he, his partners Glen Berger. I'll have him on in a future episode. So tell him to just relax. I know he wants toJonathan Aibel (00:00:51):Be, let's see how this goesMichael Jamin (00:00:52):First. Yeah, he'll, exactly. So yeah, and this guy's got a ton of credit. We, he's a real life movie writer. So let me give, I'm gonna sell you a, I'm gonna sell you, John, and then I'll let you talk for a second. But first let me talk, let me sell you up.Jonathan Aibel (00:01:04):That's fine.Michael Jamin (00:01:04):Proof everyone knows, like, I'm a, people say I'm a good creative writer. Wrong. I'm gonna prove it by selling you here, by building you up. So he's written on a u s a, he wrote run on King of the Hill for many years, including he was the showrunner, season five, cos Showrunner Mar. He also worked on Married to the Kelly's. That was his tv. That was his run in TV, I think. And then he went on to write Kung fu Panda, Kung fu Panda two, Kung fu Panda three proving like, you know, milking that thing, just milking that Kung fu panda thing. And then trolls, monster Trucks. And you've had a couple, couple upcoming stuff I want to talk about. Jonathan Abel, welcome to the show.Jonathan Aibel (00:01:46):Thank you. That was okay.Michael Jamin (00:01:48):What wasn't good? What should I have said?Jonathan Aibel (00:01:49):Well, you, king of the Hill is six years and like, that was six six. That was great TV. And then, and then you kinda mentioned some things. I was on six weeks with the same,Michael Jamin (00:01:59):Yeah,Jonathan Aibel (00:02:00):The same emphasis.Michael Jamin (00:02:01):I'm pretty sure, but I'm pretty sure. So they're not equal, you're saying, you're saying, well,Jonathan Aibel (00:02:07):You know, some, some are hits and some are are learning experiences. I'mMichael Jamin (00:02:12):Wearing my shirt for you by the, my King of the Hilter. But let, lemme tell you something. Let me tell you let me tell you something else. So will you, you guys, you and your partner Glenn hired basically, hi. You and Richard Pell hired us to be on King of the Hill. I think there was an opening because of Paul Lieberstein who left. And we literally took his office. So I credit I thank you for that. Oh, you'reJonathan Aibel (00:02:30):Welcome.Michael Jamin (00:02:31):When we got, when we joined the show, it was like, you know, it's your responsibility to get up to speed. So I asked for every script that was written or every, you know, anything on DVD that was already shot. And I distinctly remember reading all your guys' scripts, you and you and Glen Scripps, and just thinking, man, every script you wrote was just tight. It was so tight. And you'd come outta the box with a big joke. And it was just so well written. And like, you know, I didn't, there was 20 writers in the show, but I remember that your, your scripts always stood out like, man, these are always,Jonathan Aibel (00:03:02):You know, IMichael Jamin (00:03:03):Appreciate that. Always good. Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:03:04):I also appreciate your your diligence.Michael Jamin (00:03:07):My diligenceJonathan Aibel (00:03:08):Well, to come into a job and say, let me read everything. Lemme seeMichael Jamin (00:03:12):Everything. Oh, is, I didn'tJonathan Aibel (00:03:13):Think that was, it was a bit of a challenge with a hundred episodes.Michael Jamin (00:03:16):Always dreadful. The whole thing was a horrible experience. It's a lot to, but I remember. But you have to do it. You have to. That's how you get the voice of the characters and but the, to like, what kind of show episodes are being told. I remember, I dunno if I ever told you this, but I remember we had just, we were on just Shoot Me, you know, for the first four years. And I remember after the first season, king of the Hill was up against to shoot me. And I remember I was actually house-sitting for Steve Levitan for some reason. And and we were watching, I, we threw a big party. He, he wasn't in the house. And, and we were watching King of the Hill. It just came on. It was the, it was, you know, the Bobby's falls in love with the, with the dummy. And I, and I remember watching thinking, oh no, this is the competition. , this is really good Jonathan Aibel (00:04:01):That we used to watch. Just shoot me all the time in the writer's room feel that same way.Michael Jamin (00:04:06):Is that right? I didn't know that. I don't, I don't think so,Jonathan Aibel (00:04:08):But I, I just feels like it would, it should be.Michael Jamin (00:04:11):Yeah. You, you actually used to reciprocate.Jonathan Aibel (00:04:13):That'd be a nice thing to say.Michael Jamin (00:04:14):It would've been. But yeah, so Damn, Michelle was, and I still get, I, even today I get a ton of compliments on, on King of Hill. But tell me more. Tell me how you broken. How did you guys even get on King of Hill Hill?Jonathan Aibel (00:04:28):We were very lucky in that before we even moved to California, we, Glen and I met, we were management consultants and we met someone at this consulting firm who was college roommate with Greg Daniel's wife. And when we first started thinking maybe we don't wanna be consultants and would prefer to be comedy writers, she said, you should talk to Suzanne. Give her a call. So we called Suzanne to say, could we, we know you're Frank, could we talk to you about writing? And she said, you really wanna talk to my husband? So she put Greg on the phone. He didn't know who we were. We, he then I, whatMichael Jamin (00:05:11):Was Greg doing at that time?Jonathan Aibel (00:05:13):He had moved to la I think he was doing Seinfeld at the time or had done the freelance, the parking spot on Seinfeld. Oh, I didn't, yeah, he'd come off of snl.Michael Jamin (00:05:24):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:05:25):And he gave the most basic advice that now you would probably give people, or you'd Google this. And it was, and Glen wrote it down, it was moved to Los Angeles. Mm-Hmm. . Okay, okay. What else do we need to do? Like the how do you become a writer? And just super helpful in that regard. And then we moved to LA and never ran into him until King of the Hill. We had our first meeting and Glenn, I think he may have brought the pad and said, it's your fault. We're here.Michael Jamin (00:06:00):But how did you get the meetingJonathan Aibel (00:06:02):That, that it was just through our agent. There's this new show starting up, it's animated. I don't wanna do animation. I know, I know. And it's non gild. Yeah,Michael Jamin (00:06:12):I know aboutJonathan Aibel (00:06:13):That. And you're gonna work in a full year for 12 episodes. Mm-Hmm. . Well, this sounds terrible, but it's Greg, it's Mike Judge who's coming off of Beavis and Butthead. Mm-Hmm. . And you will learn a lot whether it's a hit or not. And we thought, well, that's probably the best reason to, to take a job. There's nothing to see. There was no pilot even, there's just a script. Right. There are no voices to listen to. It had been cast. So it was really just going under the assumption that, well, anytime you think something's gonna be a hit, it never is. So let's take a job just based on the people. And I don't think at that moment we had there, it wasn't like, do we take this or do we take this? It was, well, do we take this or do we just hang on? And, but you had no, I think maybe we hadn't,Michael Jamin (00:07:04):You didn't have any other credits before that, did you?Jonathan Aibel (00:07:06):No, we had done, we started off, oh, we did an episode of the George Carlin show. We had done, youMichael Jamin (00:07:13):Were right down the hall from me. I didn't know that. Cause I was a pa.Jonathan Aibel (00:07:15):Right. Well, we had done a freelance. A freelance,Michael Jamin (00:07:17):Doesn't matter. You were in the Warner Brothers building, building 1 22 or something. Cuz that's where it was.Jonathan Aibel (00:07:21):Well, here. No, cuz here's our great George Carlin story is that we wrote this script for Sam Simon. Right. We turned it in. We get a call a few weeks later from someone at the studio who said, great episode. And we said, oh, you read the script. Well read the script. Did tape last night.Michael Jamin (00:07:42): just slapping the face. Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:07:47):We were not invited to our own tape. So we watched, we had a party, we watched it at home. Look, our first, our first big creditMichael Jamin (00:07:54):That, but that's amazing too. How did you get, how did you pitch that? You're skipping all this good stuff.Jonathan Aibel (00:07:59):Ah, our agent just back then we were, we were new. I think we had a couple, we've done a, a sketch show on Nickelodeon that got us in the guild that got us an agent. And interesting. He just put us up for stuff. So one of them was this freelance of of Carlin. And one of the other things is we went to pitch Sam mm-hmm. , who it was, it was a hazard. Like he had a deadly sharp throwing stars on his table. So you'd go to like, oh, what's the paperwork? Don't touch those. They were razor sharp. And he also had a couple vicious dobermansMichael Jamin (00:08:42):In the office. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that.Jonathan Aibel (00:08:44):Then he also had, what we assumed was his story editor sitting at the table as we pitched him some story ideas. And then we left and realized, no, that was his next meeting. The next writer who's gonna pitch story idea sat at the table while we pitched ours. And then we left. And he stayed and pitched his,Michael Jamin (00:09:02):That's a littleJonathan Aibel (00:09:03):Unusual. It was a very, it was, it was a very odd thing. But that worked out in the sense that we got the freelanceMichael Jamin (00:09:10):Your scripts must have been very good then. I mean, cuzJonathan Aibel (00:09:13):I don't think they, I don't think so.Michael Jamin (00:09:15):It must have been if you would've got an agent that easily and got to be able to pitch these shows.Jonathan Aibel (00:09:19):Well, the, the agent, I don't know if it was easy. We, well, what happened was what Mo what happens to most people is you come out and you think, we need to find an agent. We need to get an agent. We're not gonna get a job without an agent. Right. And then you meet all these agents, they love you, they love your stuff, and they say, get a job. I'm happy to sign you.Michael Jamin (00:09:37):Yes.Jonathan Aibel (00:09:38):And we realized we're not going to get work, but just an agent. We need to get work somehow. And just by knowing people, talking to people, we wound up at M T V. Mm-Hmm. doing a game show.Michael Jamin (00:09:54):Which show was that?Jonathan Aibel (00:09:55):It was called Trashed. Think It finally Made it there. We just worked on the pilot and then got to know people on the, on the hallway. We share, we were in damn TV buildings. And next door were some writers on this Nickelodeon show. And a couple of the writers had just left. And someone said, oh, I hear they're, they're looking to hire. Wow. So we said, Hey, we, we've got sketches. Can we, can we meet? We the executive producer read our stuff, met with us, and said, yeah, I'll hire these guys. We went to our agent, the, the potential agent, and said, we just got offered a guild job. Do you wanna represent us? You, there's no negotiation other than you say, yeah, I think I can get my boss to sign you. Sure. And that was it. And then we were in the Guild. We were having fun writing, and I had had credits, but I, I wouldn't say we necessarily knew how to write. We knew how to be funny and come up with gags mm-hmm. . But the idea of how do you write a scene, how to you write a script was right. Was a little bit mysterious.Michael Jamin (00:11:01):But, and so you, I so you met Glen, you were just, you were, he was a coworker at when you were in your consulting firm. And then how did you both, like, did you, so you never even dreamed as a kid of being a writer. It was ne like, how did this come out of, where did this come from? This writing thing?Jonathan Aibel (00:11:14):I don't think I had any idea that people wrote for a living.Michael Jamin (00:11:20):Mm-Hmm. .Jonathan Aibel (00:11:22):Like, you didn't, you'd watch shows and you wouldn't think, I don't, I don't really know what I was thinking. Like, if I went to see a play on Broadway, I knew a human had written it, but there's something about TV where you would think like, I don't know, those are characters who would say these words and you don't think of 10 people in a room writing those words. So it wasn't until Stimson's and Seinfeld started breaking through that, I started feeling like, whoa, there's TV here that I'd wanna write. And later I found out it was because people just a few years ahead of me at Harvard,Michael Jamin (00:12:01):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:12:01):Were writing those shows. So I was sort of thinking like, why does this feel like it's my sensibility without realizing I was kind of swimming in the same waterMichael Jamin (00:12:09):They had? You weren't on the Lampoon then. No.Jonathan Aibel (00:12:11):You didn't have a no idea that this is something,Michael Jamin (00:12:14):How did you know you were funny then? Like, you know, IJonathan Aibel (00:12:18):Mean, I, I think I always had a sense of humor and was known for being funny slash maybe sometimes disruptive, but cleverly disruptive in school. Right. Like, I was, I'd done musical theater, so I was okay fam like, I, I wasn't like unfamiliar with entertainment.Michael Jamin (00:12:40):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:12:42):But that was different from thinking, you know, that's something you can make a living at. And then it was right around that time where these articles started coming out about the number of people who had gone from the East coast to LA and how many Letterman writers.Michael Jamin (00:12:56):Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:12:56):And SNL writers and Simpson's writer and Seinfeld and Frazier and Cheers and all these. That opened up my eyes to wait a minute, this is, you could make a living,Michael Jamin (00:13:07):But when you,Jonathan Aibel (00:13:07):I went to, I had no idea.Michael Jamin (00:13:09):When you quit your job, then you came to LA you'd had no job. Right. You were what? You were just like, I'm gonna live off my savings. Or what would you do?Jonathan Aibel (00:13:16):Right. We, we, we saved up from, I I, I think Glen says he sent away for grad school applications. His second day of work is how, how quickly he knew that place wasn't for him.Michael Jamin (00:13:30):He did it just .Jonathan Aibel (00:13:32):It was a little, a little later in the process, but we started writing at night. Like we found out you gotta write a specMichael Jamin (00:13:40):Script. Right. And you guys are roommates too?Jonathan Aibel (00:13:43):No. No. We, we weren't, but we wouldn't sometimes call in sick and then work on ourMichael Jamin (00:13:48):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:13:49):Ourselves or Glen would stay home and, and turn the light onto my cubicle and put a Right. Put my suit jacket over my chair. , you know, it wasMichael Jamin (00:13:58):All these, oh my God. Jonathan Aibel (00:14:00):Our heart wasn't really in it, but we stayed and did the job and, and saved up.Michael Jamin (00:14:05):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:14:06):So that we could move to LA And we didn't move out to LA like I think we were, we approached it, the way we approached consulting, which was this, this was my job as a consultant, was I was given a list of doctors and it, we had sent them a survey and it was go down this list, call each doctor's office and ask them if they filled out the survey. So it's like, hello, Dr. Levine, my name is John Avon. I'm calling on behalf of this. And we've sent a survey. I was just wondering if you had a chance to, to, and I would just have to do that for hours. And the skill it taught me was just pick up the phone and call people.Michael Jamin (00:14:47):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:14:47):So when we were thinking of moving to LA, it was, oh, you should like calling Suzanne.Michael Jamin (00:14:53):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:14:54):Instead of saying, ah, she doesn't know me. It was just, okay, she's just like a doctor. I'm calling you. She doesn't want to talk to me. She'll just, you weren'tMichael Jamin (00:15:01):To call, were intimidated at all. You, you had, you weren't intimidated at all.Jonathan Aibel (00:15:04):I don't think I knew to be intimidated. We were in Boston at the time,Michael Jamin (00:15:08):UhhuhJonathan Aibel (00:15:09):. We didn't, you weren't surrounded by people who had this dream of going to Hollywood and then came home with their tail between their legs and said, now it's awful out there. Right. It was, that place seems fun and sunshine and I knew people, people from school, people, friends of my brothers had lived were, were out there. So when we showed up, it felt like there was a, a group, there was a, you weren't alone. It was there other people here pursuing the dream, but not so many that you felt like there's no chance this is gonna happen. Like we were, I don't know if cocky is the word, but because we didn't know any better. We were just know it's gonna work outMichael Jamin (00:15:48):And itJonathan Aibel (00:15:49):We're gonna, we didn'tMichael Jamin (00:15:49):How long did it take for you to get work, but when you moved out here, it sounds like a fa it was fast.Jonathan Aibel (00:15:53):Well, we moved out in September and we got the game show started in December. And then I think amazing by the following summer we were on the Nickelodeon show.Michael Jamin (00:16:07):What show was that? What was thatJonathan Aibel (00:16:08):Called? It was called Roundhouse.Michael Jamin (00:16:10):I don't know that one.Jonathan Aibel (00:16:11):Right. Bruce Bruce Gowers who just passed away two days ago. Who did The Queen, the Bohemian Rapley video. He was the director of it.Michael Jamin (00:16:19):Oh wow.Jonathan Aibel (00:16:20):But there's a little little roundhouse trivia. It was really fun. It was a lot of in living color writers.Michael Jamin (00:16:25):Wow.Jonathan Aibel (00:16:26):Between gigs were there. So it had dancing and original music and it was a sketch show for tweens on on sncc.Michael Jamin (00:16:36):Sncc. Is that what it was? Really? Yeah. It's so funny cuz this show here was on Nick at night, which was supposed to be not Nickelodeon and Nick at night. No, it'sJonathan Aibel (00:16:43):Different.Michael Jamin (00:16:44):But it's not because it, Nick, I don't remember if Nick at night started at 8:00 PM or 9:00 PM or whatever. But see, my, my partner I siever it used to say, but it's the, it's the babysitting channel up until, you know, 8 0 1 and then it becomes racy. But the parents don't know thatJonathan Aibel (00:17:00):. Right. no one's turning you.Michael Jamin (00:17:02):Yeah. So the, we got a lot of peopleJonathan Aibel (00:17:04):From was Saturday night. Saturday night. Nick is a whole otherMichael Jamin (00:17:07):Ball game. Oh, is that what that is? Sncc? Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:17:10):I guess they could have also done it Sunday without changing the name. Yeah. But it was SaturdayMichael Jamin (00:17:15):Or Wednesdays. Wednesdays or Thursdays. Anything, any day that ends with an sJonathan Aibel (00:17:23):That's true. Wednesday, Wednesdays Nick.Michael Jamin (00:17:25):Yeah. Anyway, that's why we're not in the marketing department.Jonathan Aibel (00:17:29):My point though is by the time we got to King of the HillMichael Jamin (00:17:32):Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:17:34):We had had, we had worked on a, a show that was real old school in its joke telling, like real strong set up three a page, boom, boom, boom, boom. Then we worked on another show that was very emotional where it was single woman in the city kind of show. And that was, it wasn't, not funny, but it was as a writer there it was, wait a minute, I'm supposed to tell a story that isn't just the situation of situation comedy. It wasn't just the character loses her driver's license and has to go to the D M V and this crazy stuff happens. Mm-Hmm. , it was thinking about the, the internal life and they're Okay. That's an interesting then,Michael Jamin (00:18:23):But then when did you learn actually how to write like story, a story structure? When did, is that King of the Hill?Jonathan Aibel (00:18:29):I think so. The other, the, the show that was very joke heavy. The other thing you learn on a joke heavy show is, is the, the tricks. The okay, someone comes in and says something and then at the end of the scene someone repeats it in a callback andMichael Jamin (00:18:44):Right, right.Jonathan Aibel (00:18:45):Then people laugh and the music plays and you dissolve slowly to the next scene. And they're, they're like they're like weapons. They could be in that they could be used for good or evil.Michael Jamin (00:18:55):Right. Right. SoJonathan Aibel (00:18:57):By the time though, we got to King of the Hill, I remember pitching the very first week to Greg and you just have no idea what this show you're thinking the Simpson. So, okay. I remember we pitched something like Dale's an exterminator. So he tens a big house and then people think it's a circus and starts showing up at it.Michael Jamin (00:19:19):Oh, I like thatJonathan Aibel (00:19:20):. And Greg's like, oh, that's the little, probably by season eight that would've been a season eight idea. That's good. But in the beginning I think that's a little not observational enough. And, and, and it's sort of like, well what do you mean to define observational was the, the question like how do you find comedy out of human, actual human behavior?Michael Jamin (00:19:48):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:19:48):In the way, how do you observe what a person would do in a, in a real life situation? And no one had really done that in animation, which was Yeah. The, I think the brilliance of Mike and Greg was to say, well, what if you take this style that's associated with unreality Right. And give it more reality than anything else you've seen in animation.Michael Jamin (00:20:09):And that's what was unusual because we used to say in many ways just king of the Hill was less of a cartoon than, than just shooting me. I mean, just shoot me was more of a cartoon. You know, it was, but, and it's unusual cause you'd say, I I even back then I was like, well why is this show animated? Like, cuz you no one's eyes popping out, no one's running on air. You know, no one's doing any Daffy Duck stuff. But I guess it was just because you could shoot it like a movie and it could be real. But you didn't have the, you didn't have the budget. WellJonathan Aibel (00:20:39):You're probably overthinking it cuz it was just the real reason is they had to deal with Mike and Mike's an animator and this is what he wanted to do.Michael Jamin (00:20:46):. I guess so. But usually why is it animated? Like, you know, otherJonathan Aibel (00:20:50):Than because Yeah. That's, that's why are, why are, why is this? It's cuz cuz Mike wanted, he saw it. No, that was his thing. And, and he didn't. And, and that's great. That's as, that's as good a reason. And how,Michael Jamin (00:21:04):How much was, and I've heard stories, but I think people wanna hear this. How involved was Mike like literally on a day-to-day basis in those early years with the show?Jonathan Aibel (00:21:13):Huh. I can't say I know the full scope of it because I'm sure he was more involved in the production,Michael Jamin (00:21:22):But he wasn't in the writer's room. I mean, I know like,Jonathan Aibel (00:21:24):No, cuz he was living in Texas.Michael Jamin (00:21:26):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:21:27):So he would come in and then we would do the story retreats, maybe you remember. Yeah. Or we'd go to Texas and and meet with him, or he would come in or we'd go to his house. It re it was Greg on the day today. And then I don't really know what the, the communication between the two of them was. Right. I, I'm pretty sure Mike's deal was, I have a life in Texas and I don't wanna move to LA and do this grind cuz he had done that grind for Beefs and, but, and the Beavers and Butthead movie.Michael Jamin (00:22:01):Right, right.Jonathan Aibel (00:22:03):So I think that's what Greg took on.Michael Jamin (00:22:06):But yeah, he,Jonathan Aibel (00:22:06):It was a great combination.Michael Jamin (00:22:08):He have notes though. He I remember, you know, even on on the, on the audio track, you could sometimes hear him say, I'm, that that line's not right. He'd tweak a line or whatever, you know? Yeah, yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:22:19):Yeah, you get his little I'm not gonna say that. How aboutMichael Jamin (00:22:23): not gonna do that. But, but then, okay, so then you guys rose up to the ranks cuz only in five or six years you were running the show, which is a pretty fast climb to be able to run a TV show after only that short amount of time is kind of crazy almost. You know, IJonathan Aibel (00:22:38):Think we were a and meanwhile feels like, oh, we're not getting anywhere in this town. And some of that is because you do a show. We were, we'd probably done a year of it worked under the year before it even premiered. Right. So you're putting all this into it and you don't know if it's gonna be a hit. And then the surprise was, it, it was doing really well. And then you have no time to enjoy it because you're halfway through starting season two. It was, it was both really exciting and just crazy exhausting. And itMichael Jamin (00:23:12):Was,Jonathan Aibel (00:23:13):Yeah. Like 3:00 AM And that's sort of fun sometimesMichael Jamin (00:23:19):When you're young, it's inJonathan Aibel (00:23:21):The beginning where it's, hey, it's like college, right? We're all hanging out. We're just being funny. And then you start dating and your partners saying, what time are you gonna be home? I don't know. Yeah. Or what time do you think I really, I don't know. Someone could come into this room in two minutes and say, we're good. Go home. Or someone could come in in two minutes and say, I just got Mike's notes. We need to start over. Yeah. You don't know. And that's a, when you're a staff writer, not so hard because you just do what you're told when as you move up and take on more responsibility. It, it definitely became less fun. Aspects of it were fun. Mm-Hmm. directing actors was really fun. Mm-Hmm. working with editing and storyboard artists and the animation directors fun. But the more stuff like, can I go to a dentist appointment on Wednesday? Let me see what's the staff, what, what room am I in today? Like, I, I left consulting because I didn't wanna be a, a manager. And that's wh part of show running is that, and for us, that was the, that wasn't the fun part. The fun part, as we say, Glenn and I would note you rise up and become a showrunner based on the strength of your writing. And then you get to a position where you don't have time to write anymore.Michael Jamin (00:24:41):Oh. It's not only that people, cause I people, they reach out to me all the time, you know, that I wanna be a showrunner. It's like, I just wanted to be a writer. Like, cuz be a show. It's like you just said, you, none of us become comedy writers because we wanna be managers. Like that's not, and when you're a show owner, that's what you're doing. You are managing other people. Yeah. And and, and we're not equipped, we're not prepared for it. And we don't necessarily even want to do that. And, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a hardJonathan Aibel (00:25:06):Leap. Right. And it was, it was definitely challenging also, cuz you're putting all this work in, then you realize, this isn't even my show. This is Greg and Mike's vision, and you're just trying to fulfill their vision. Right.(00:25:21):Like, I can see running my, if Im running my own show saying I love this idea and this is my baby and I'm gonna protect. And I just, I want to be the ur here. I want to see my vision through. But so much of show running isn't that at all? It's, it's, Greg would describe it as it's sort of like pottery where you would make a pot, put it on the shelf and all right, what's the next one? Sometimes they break, sometimes they're not quite formed. But you don't have time. You gotta get to the next Right. Get to make another pot.Michael Jamin (00:25:53):But do you have, and I wanna get to your film career, which is very impressive, but do you have, did you have any like, eyes to go back and do any kind of television, even creating your own show?Jonathan Aibel (00:26:03):We, after King of the Hill, we, we wrote a few pilots. We were at Fox and writing pilots. And it was a weird time in TV where every year Fox would say, we don't want single camera shows. We need, we need Multicam, we need to pair them with whateverMichael Jamin (00:26:20):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:26:21):Hit they had there. We need another, we need to pair this. So we'd write a multi cam and then they would only pick up single camera shows. But I think that happened two or three years or whatMichael Jamin (00:26:29):Yeah. What's,Jonathan Aibel (00:26:30):What's going on? So we started realizing, I, I think we were kind of spoiled by King of the Hill. It was, it was just creatively, it was just an amazing show. And so fun to write those characters and work with those actors and work with that staff that after that it was, I don't, it's hard to just go and do sitcoms. I mean, like, I enjoyed the form, but I couldn't see myself spending 10 more years doing that. And it felt like the the air was coming out of that format.Michael Jamin (00:27:07):Then how did you, how did you jump into features?Jonathan Aibel (00:27:10):Well, it started because King, as I mentioned, king of the Hill was not a guild go in the first years mm-hmm. . So we're doing it, we're in our second or third year, and we realized we're gonna lose our health insurance. What, what? I mean like, it was a very adult sounding realization of, oh, health insurance. What I, I hadn't even been thinking. Because when you're in the Writer's Guild, it's amazing. On a time I was 23, I had health insurance.Michael Jamin (00:27:40):But you had health through the Animators Guild though, through tag.Jonathan Aibel (00:27:43):We weren't animated animation. We were No, it was not unfamiliarMichael Jamin (00:27:47):Anybody. Oh no. Wow. I didn't know that.Jonathan Aibel (00:27:51):So we said to our agent, we need, we need either freelance episodesMichael Jamin (00:28:00):Mm-Hmm. Jonathan Aibel (00:28:01):Or we need to write a feature. And she said, well, do you have a feature spec? And we said, no. And then, and to her credit, she said, there's this director, he's been hired to direct a reboot of Freddy, or of Friday, it was Freddy versus Jason.Michael Jamin (00:28:20):Mm-Hmm. .Jonathan Aibel (00:28:21):And he loves King of the Hill. And basically it was, can you give him a fun, fun, he's got an idea for story fun characters that he can then kill. Like it was right around Scream had come out. So there was this, the, the Birth of Hard comedy.Michael Jamin (00:28:38):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:28:39):So he said, yeah, we can do that. And we, we met him, we got along, he loved the show. We, we love working with him. So we wrote this script, which then, which then didn't get produced. But it was, oh, this features is kind of like writing King of the Hill, but longer.Michael Jamin (00:28:59):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:28:59):You just kind of write King of the Hill and then you keep writing and keep writing and then you have a hundred pages of King of the Hill instead of 22. Right. But the three act structures similar. And the idea of thinking about a character and how do you write a character, we realized it's kind of more cinematic than episodic television. Like the things we were learning were more applicable to writing features than writing sitcoms at that point.Michael Jamin (00:29:28):Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:29:29):So when our television deal was nearing its clothes, and we were thinking, do we renew it? Do we throw our hats out there as, as showrunners for hire? And we thought, you know, let's, let's write, maybe we can write some more features. And we just started getting some rewrites, doing some originals.Michael Jamin (00:29:50):Mm-Hmm. .Jonathan Aibel (00:29:52):And you can start making a, a decent living writing movies and never get made.Michael Jamin (00:29:57):Oh, for sure. At least you could then. I don't know if it's nowJonathan Aibel (00:29:59):Yes. Yes. Then you then you could. But it was super frustrating. Yeah. Because everything would be about to go and then there would be a reason mm-hmm. it wouldn't go. And there were none of those reasons were under your control. And you, you could, you would do a great job and everyone would love it. And then, oh, this movie just came out. Yeah. Basically the same premise. So, sorry.Michael Jamin (00:30:20):Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:30:21):And that's when we had been meeting this, this fantastic exec name Christine Belsen, who was then at Henson.Michael Jamin (00:30:30):Mm-Hmm.Jonathan Aibel (00:30:30):. And we were huge Muppet fans. Right. And she brought us in and we totally hit it off. And she said, I wanna do a Muppet kung fu movie.Michael Jamin (00:30:39):UhhuhJonathan Aibel (00:30:40):. And we thought, oh my God, yeah, that would be so great. Yes. Sign us up for that. And we said, but you know, we read that that Dreamers is doing this Jack Black, kung fu kung fu Panda movie. And she said, oh, those movies take forever. I don't think it's, I I wouldn't worry about that. So then we don't hear from her for a while. We're worried what's going on. Then we get a call from her. Okay. So I moved over to Dreamworks and we're looking for writers who come from Panda.Michael Jamin (00:31:08):Wow.Jonathan Aibel (00:31:08):And we said, oh, okay. So it was just a case where it started off simple enough, they asked us to come in for just two weeks of consulting to see what they had underway and talk about the story. Cuz it was in a roughMichael Jamin (00:31:25):But had be different. Dreamworks has a whole different system over there. So what do you mean consultant? Cause I know they worked very differently from other studios.Jonathan Aibel (00:31:33):Well, so there had been writers who, well kind of what happens is, you know, king, king of the hill, the Simpsons though, shows very writer driven. Right. It doesn't have time. You don't have time to be anything other than ri writer driven. So the animators are given the script and the audio. Right. And they're So draw this,Michael Jamin (00:31:54):Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.Jonathan Aibel (00:32:18):And in feature animation, Dreamworks especially, they may take that script and they'll take tens, the first 10 scenes of act, the first half the movie and give it to 10 different storyboard artists who will take that and read it and say, I see what this scene is doing, but maybe I can do it this way. And they will draw something and write it and animate and, and storyboard it and often record the dialogue themselves. And it's sort of like almost like what is it? 32 short films about Glen Gould where you end up with these almost mini movies in the beginning of a movie anyway. Like at the start of a development process where you would watch this movie and say, okay, that PO is different from this PO who's different from that po. And you watch it and you think, this doesn't make any sense, but I can start to see a story in there.(00:33:13):And then they'll do it iteratively. So then you're on that scene there, that moment I really understood who the character was. So more of that moment. So by way of saying, you may have someone who came in and wrote a script, but they might be long gone at this point cuz now it's been torn up it's storyboard and now you're walk working off transcripts where they've written down what's on screen. And that's what you're rewriting off of. So by the team time we came in, there was like a movie ish. Like you could, there was something in black and white you could watch mm-hmm. that everyone knew wasn't necessarily coherent. But the point isn't coherence. The point is what, what jumps out at you? Like we watched and said, oh, I think what you're doing is, it's kind of like a Cinderella story, right?(00:34:06):He's the guy in the beginning who wants to go to the kung fu ball mm-hmm. and can't go. And then the Prince points at him, and then he goes on this thing, and now the bad guy's coming for him and he doesn't know. And is he the chosen one? Or isn't he the chosen one? It's like those are like, now it's, it feels a little glib for me to say that as if it were obvious. It, it was, it's it was not it obvious. It's, it's, you're sitting there thinking, is it this story? No. Maybe it's the story. Some of it is, there are, there are two, Jack, Jack has, Jack Black has two kind of two great. Our type of our typical characters. One is the high fidelity like the jerk Yeah. Who deep down is suffering from low self-esteem. Right. And then he has the friendly guy who deep down is suffering from low self-esteem.(00:35:00):Right. So some of the, the production of the, the development of Kung Fu Panda was, which, which Jack is in our movie. Is he the guy who's chosen to be this kung fu guy and then realizes, oh my God, this is great. Now I don't have to work anymore. Now I can just go to the palace and hang out and relax and, and live it up until he finds out there's a responsibility. So there was some of that version of the movie. Then there's the guy who's wishes more than anything. He can be the kung fu master, but knows because of he's a big panda. That's impossible. Cuz Panas don't do kung fu and then his dream comes true. And then he has to, you know, that's what the movie ended up being. But when you started seeing that character in the opening reel, you'd say, whoa, I, I wanna, I, I wanna know more Right about that. And that's the magic of these time. You hadMichael Jamin (00:35:51):To sense of it. But see that's what I'm, I'm curious though, cuz for me it seems counterintuitive. It feel, it feels like you're putting the cart ahead of the horse. It's like, you know, I wonder if, was that, did you feel the same way? Because usually, you know, okay, we have an idea. We come, we have Ari, the writers come up with a th a thread, you know, through line and there's a story and Well,Jonathan Aibel (00:36:09):It's, it's inefficient for sure. But I think you can look at animated movies for the most part as a genre and say for the most part they're really well constructed.Michael Jamin (00:36:22):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:36:23):And I think this is, this is why, because if a writer's gonna, it's very hard to create a great movie off of six drafts, even eight drafts, 10 drafts. Mm-Hmm. and, and just see it on paper and say, yeah, that's gonna work. Because no one knows how to read a script.Michael Jamin (00:36:43):I see.Jonathan Aibel (00:36:44):Like, even as a professional writer, I don't think I could read a script and say, this is gonna be an amazing movie. You can say this is a great script. Right. But is it gonna be an amazing movie? I don't know, an animation, you're making the movie as you're writing the movie, so it's not you, it makes sense. Theoretical. Is this gonna be good? It's ah, I, I see that moment. I see Poe and his father. Right. Having that moment where Poe is afraid to tell his dad what he wants to do with his life. I see. That's one thing. Makes sense. How do we build on that?Michael Jamin (00:37:17):Right. That makes sense to So it's very collaborative with you and the animators then.Jonathan Aibel (00:37:21):Oh yeah. The storyboard team, the directors, the producer, the actors, Uhhuh . It was it very different from TV animation. Right.Michael Jamin (00:37:32):SoundsJonathan Aibel (00:37:32):Very different. And I, our, our, one of our first the first moment we realized that was the producer said, I I want you to sit in a room with this guy, a storyboard artist and talk about the scene and what it could be. So we sat with him and we worked line by line. We hopped it and said, it could be this could be this. Yeah. I could draw this, do this. Said great, we're gonna write it up. We wrote it up, gave it into him. Three weeks later we go to watch the scene. It's nothing at all we discussed and went to the producer, but a, a thing. She said, yeah, I know, but I know he's kind of out there. And I wanted to see what he would take your stuff and give you, you know, if you, if all you want, if all you're expecting is the best version of what you've already done, you're closing off the chance that you'll be surprised by something.Michael Jamin (00:38:24):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:38:25):So that's cool. On the other hand, sometimes in their scenes where you just say, can you just please do the, the pages? Right. Like, we've thought a lot about this. We understand. And there's some scenes in that first movie, which went pretty much from our pages to the final version. Cuz they were just compact. They made sense. Right. There wasn't a lot of room, but there wasn't a need for a lot of exploration. It was okay, that works. So let's just get that right going and move on to the theMichael Jamin (00:38:52):Others. So they brought you in under contract for a couple of weeks just to see how you would respond to the animators?Jonathan Aibel (00:38:59):Yeah, we had a after, well, no, to see what we would, it wasn't a trial. It was, they thought in 10 days we would give them an outline that they could work off of.Michael Jamin (00:39:12):But even still, you, they, they knew that they would probably go off via the reservation and you'd be required to Yeah. But that'sJonathan Aibel (00:39:19):Collaborate more. That's, but I think that happened a lot. It wasn't, it was more of then when we pitched our take on it to Jeffrey Katzenberg and he said, great, when you, when can you guys start writing Uhhuh. ? Okay. And then the other people lo looked at each other like, oh, I guess we, I guess we should probably get that, put that deal in place. So then we wrote a draftMichael Jamin (00:39:38):Mm-Hmm. .Jonathan Aibel (00:39:40):And then they took the draft and then started going through that process of tearing it apart. And at, at which point they realized it would probably be helpful to have us around. And I think it, what helped is that coming from tv, we, we knew storyboards, we knew how to read storyboards. We knew what happens in an editing room and how actors perform. Right. So we came to it with production skills or an, an understanding of the process that that helped us come in and say, oh, I think you could, you can cut a few frames there and actually know what we were talking about. At, at the same time, the, the big difference was television is it's a, it's a sprint as you know. Yeah. It's, you need to get this done because the actors are gonna be here at 10:00 AM to read this and record this.(00:40:35):So you need something for them. So we were approached feature animation, we gotta get this done, we gotta get this done. And then what you realize is that you, that's the exact wrong way to do because you, you get it all done now then when stuff starts changing, you've already written stuff that's, it's obsolete before anyone has seen it. Right. It's like animation is best. I think it's like, it's a marathon of sprints where we need, this scene has to go into production and Jack is coming in Thursday to record this. We need these three pages done. All right, we'll get it done, we'll get it done. Great. Now in six weeks, we're gonna need sequence 1500 going into rough layout though. That's the next one. I know it's,Michael Jamin (00:41:21):But you're working off an an outline. You know what the story is, right?Jonathan Aibel (00:41:24):You do and you don't. Isn't that, I know that's a weird thing to say, but you, Lenny, I can't tell you the number of boards there that would say big battle, like act three, big battle you know, wrap up epilogue.Michael Jamin (00:41:39):Is this the way animation movies were done like at Disney back in the day? Is this where they're getting this from?Jonathan Aibel (00:41:45):It's possible. I I think what where it comes from is that what's your expense, your greatest expense of time. And therefore money is the animator, the person at Disney drawing the cell mm-hmm. at Dreamworks. That final, the final editor moving frame by frame. That takes a lot of time. And it is such a skill and the people who do it are so brilliant that it's not like you can say we need six more animators who can capture Poe. It's, there's this guy Dan, Dan Wagner, just a brilliant animator and he was the one who could give Poe his soul.(00:42:29):Right. So you only get so much Dan. So you don't want to give Dan 10 scenes to do and say, we're not sure if these are all gonna work. But, so you are not giving the animators the scenes until they're ready at the same time. The animators can only do so much at the same time. So so while they're working on one scene, there's no reason to have the other scenes done. So it's sort of like you back, you back up into the process and you'd say, well if they can only animate these this much now mm-hmm. , well let's keep working on those other scenes and make them better and keep playing with them until it's too late. And then we'll, we'll turn 'em around. Right. So you really, you have the time to get it right. And if you said no, let's rush that. We, we gotta get All right. Now there's no reason to.Michael Jamin (00:43:16):It sounds like this cuz knowing how you guys ran King of the Hill, it sounds like this is like the perfect fit for you because you guys would often rewrite the hell out of a scene trying different ways and just experimenting.Jonathan Aibel (00:43:26):That was, I I think Thank you. I think it was, it, it it is a good fit for us to, to have said, okay, we've written that scene. There, there are a lot of exercises that are, are kind of cool that you can use, which is stuff like, well let's write the opposite. Right? You have someone come into a scene who's really excited, like, well, what if they came into the scene feeling the other way and that you flipped. You kind of have that, the opportunity to exploreMichael Jamin (00:43:58):More. Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:43:59):And then, and know that there's no punishment for it because the whole point is to experiment.Michael Jamin (00:44:05):Right. That's the point. So did they keep you under, how does it work? Do they keep you under contract at that point, Dreamworks, to do other movies? Or are you constantly pitching them to get assigned other projects orJonathan Aibel (00:44:17):That No, we had, we had a, it was great in that it started off, I think it was, we were there four days a weekMichael Jamin (00:44:25):Mm-Hmm. Jonathan Aibel (00:44:26):And I think at the time we were in person then it would be three, then after six months, three days a week, as there's less to change, they need less abuse. So then it was two days a week, then one day a week. And then at the same time we were doing other rewrites in other studios. And I think it was when we got down to one day a week, they said, you know, we have this smoothie monsters versus aliens when you wanna work on that. Right.Michael Jamin (00:44:49):So you were never squeeze.Jonathan Aibel (00:44:51):We were one day monsters. Four days.Michael Jamin (00:44:53):All right. So you were alwaysJonathan Aibel (00:44:54):Kind. Yeah, always. Show by show.Michael Jamin (00:44:56):I see. You're always jumping. Right. So it wasJonathan Aibel (00:44:58):Never, and then, and it, it was nice cuz you know, you don't wanna, we liked it because it led us take the projects that spoke to us that Right. Looked like they were gonna be fun. While also, like, the great thing about Panda was it was a hit came out. It was a hit. And when you've written a movie, it's a hit. People want you to write their movies. Right. So it, and and also people want you to write movies similar to the movie that was just a hit.Michael Jamin (00:45:28):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:45:29):So it didn't matter that we had done King The Hill or other stuff. It was, oh, they, they wrote Fu Pan, they should write the Chipmunks movies. We'll offer that to them.Michael Jamin (00:45:38):Right. Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:45:39):So talking Animal, oh, here's another talking animal.Michael Jamin (00:45:42):So did you have toJonathan Aibel (00:45:43):Ever Thenn Bozer,Michael Jamin (00:45:46):Did you have to pitch, when you go on further assignments, are they pretty much yours because of, or do you have to pitch? Do you have to win that assignment?Jonathan Aibel (00:45:54):It's always a little of both. I mean, look, we were very, we were very lucky in that they weren't bake offs where Yeah. Six people are coming in to pitch this. It was, I think that the Chipmunks people really like Kung Fu Panda. It was just a rewrite. Can you come? It was over Christmas.Michael Jamin (00:46:16):UhhuhJonathan Aibel (00:46:17):. So I think that that definitely helped that they found us saying, yeah, we'll give up your, our holiday to, to write these pages for you.Michael Jamin (00:46:24):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:46:25):But then the, the luck was these were, these became franchises. So then they come you for Comfort Panda Two and Comfort Panda Three and Chipmunks three. Right. And, and then we through people knew what Dreamwork got to SpongeBob. So then you'd do SpongeBob to second SpongeBob movie that led to the third SpongeBob movie.Michael Jamin (00:46:44):I didn't even mention those. Cause that's not even on your I M D B. We'll have to update that when we get off the, the Zoom. Yeah. What update your page? I didn't know any of this. I didn't know you did the I didn't know you did that. And so, okay. Because that's a big deal. Cause I, I remember, you know, when Si and I, we did, we did a couple of movies. We sold a couples, they didn't get made. We sold a couple movies and then we were all we're brought into you know, we didn't realize they were bake offs. We didn't, so we, we pitched for, you know, a couple big companies, I don't have to mention what they are. And, and we're told Yeah, you got the, you got it. You got it. And then only to discover that someone else got it. We didn't even know o other people were trying to get, like, we had no idea. And that's a lot. You're talking about months and months of heartbreaking wasted work and then the project never even made. So, but you don't really have it's true to deal with that True. Because of your level, you know. Yes,Jonathan Aibel (00:47:34):Yes and no. The the no is if they're, if you've worked with them on Kung fu Panda one, two, and three, there's a good chance they'll come to you for Kung fu Panda four.Michael Jamin (00:47:46):Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:47:47):So, and if you hit it off, feel like they may say, come in with some ideas and they like an idea. So they're not just saying, here's the deal before you've pitched anything. So there were meetings, but you know, they know you can deliver. That's kind of the main thing. Right. If it's people who you don't really know, then yeah. It's, they're rebooting this franchise and their hearing takes. And what we've learned, actually the hard way is if you're going to put yourself in that situation, you want to put as, I don't wanna say as little work as possible. You want to, you wanna do the right amount of work. That's the the best way where, but it's, we've, we've gone in and we've pitched I know, but we've gone in where we've pitched, you pitched for 20 minutes and then you realize by the second sentence you said the words they don't want to hear like, oh, that's not the kind of movie they want to do at all.(00:48:47):Right. And we've learned a better strategies to go and say, here, I I understand you wanna do a silly putty movie. I'm, I'm totally making this up, but here's, you could go this way where Silly Putty, it's a revenge story where it's a John Wick me silly putty. Right. Or it's the origin story of how a serious putty became silly putty because of a, of a family tragedy. And he's the clown who lasts through to you . Like, you know, each of these is an archetype movie. Right. And then it's, I don't know if any of those strike, well we kind of do like that. It's like, okay, okay, well we'll come back to you with that. It'sMichael Jamin (00:49:23):Interesting cuz you set the terms then over the pitch chart. Cuz that's not usually how we go in. We, here's the, here's the take, here's our take. And then, you know, you could be your, you could be completely off. I didn't know you had a choice.Jonathan Aibel (00:49:33):Well, this is a new, this is a new, this is a new realization. Uhhuh having, because you know, kind of what's happened is after doing a lot of these movies, you start to think, okay, I like this. I I know what I'm doing. What's something I don't really know how to do that I haven't done before mm-hmm. . And that's the type of movie where a person isn't necessarily gonna say, Hmm, get me the guys who did Kung Panda. Right. So you gotta hustle for those little more. And those were the ones where I think we were over preparing for many of them by saying we're gonna blow 'em away with the le attention to detail. Yeah. And especially in a Zoom era where you blow 'em away with the tension detail, they're thinking is I just need three sentences to bring the boss. Really? And it's hard because as storytellers you sometimes feel like, I can't, I don't, I'm sorry, I cannot pitch this idea unless I understand the character arts and Yeah. Right. The three acts and you're think, you know, maybe sometimes you can go in and say, and then in the third act there's a huge battle in which the forces of evil have to go against the forces ofMichael Jamin (00:50:39):I see. I would be worried about pitching something that I didn't know how to actually break. You know what I'm saying? Like, youJonathan Aibel (00:50:43):Know. Yes, I know. I, I you eventually, you just kind of have to have confidence and say, you know what, we'll figure something out. We'll figure, it's hard. It's really hard to, even at this point we'll go into a rewrite and say, what is that third act set piece? I don't know, but we'll, we'll, we'll figure it out. And it's in the back of your head thing if I don't get that.Michael Jamin (00:51:06):Yeah. Right.Jonathan Aibel (00:51:08):And then one day it'll be like, oh, wait a minute. Well, what if this happened? Because we just like, it will, it will come to you. And I think it's, it's a little, maybe this is the animation experience. It's a little foolish to even think I know what the perfect act three is before I've actually written Acts one and two.Michael Jamin (00:51:28):Yeah. But you andJonathan Aibel (00:51:29):Instead rely on your instincts and your experienceMichael Jamin (00:51:32):Wanna build to something you wanna, I I it's so, I'm, I'm telling you how to do it. I have no idea how to do it.Jonathan Aibel (00:51:37):No, but, but, but of course you will build to it, you know, you need to build to something, but you may not know the ingredients yet. Like, you'll be writing something and say, well, I'll give you a good example. In, in Conco Panda, we wound up having this, this pose, big realization. Mm-Hmm. that, can I give spoilers after 15 years after movies opened?Michael Jamin (00:51:59):I believe. I believe so. Okay.Jonathan Aibel (00:52:01):So Pose opened the scroll in it's blank, and he realizes he's failed. And his father says to him, it's okay, you can be a noodle old man just like me. And by the way, it's time. I told you the secret ingredient in my suit. And the secret ingredient is nothing. There is no secret ingredient. It was just to make something special, you just have to believe it's special. And really, that was just a joke about his father, who in the first scene we wrote that, oh, that'd be funny if he has a secret ingredient soup. And later we find out there is no secret ingredient. It's just a marketing gimmick. And it wasn't until he got to the later scene where someone, I think this bill Damascus, his name, he is, he was then the executive of dreamworks. And he said, I, I, I like what you're doing there.(00:52:49):You're kind of making comparison between the scroll being blank and the soup, not really having the spec, the specialness, it's that's it into here. And we said, that's not at all what we're, is that what we're doing? That is what we're doing. You know, like, I don't know if we consciously did that or everyone working on the movie was putting that stuff in there. But once, so if we had started with, what is it? We never would've gotten there. But like, it's funny you were talking about ingredients, but we had these ingredients of the father, the soup. We had this scroll that was blank, and it took a whole bunch of time. And thinking for a, a person to look at that with fresh eyes and say, I think you've given yourself the moment you need to do the rest of the movie.Michael Jamin (00:53:37):Do you think this is how they tell their movies at at Pixar? They have a different process. Do you thinkJonathan Aibel (00:53:43):That I I don't, I don't know all I've, all I know of the process there is, they seem to draw on tablecloths.Michael Jamin (00:53:51):Is that Oh, really?Jonathan Aibel (00:53:51):That I don't know. That was at, there's some documentary where they have this, this famous tablecloth that's amazing. Where it was, they weren't, the Brain Trust was meeting. And I said, well, here's some movies I think we could do. There's what if tos come to life? What, what if bugs come to life? What if Bumper Beyond that, I don't really know their process. It's probably somewhat similar.Michael Jamin (00:54:13):So. Interesting. And when you work, you know, you're, and I'm jumping around, but your partner, Glen, he doesn't, he lives not in la So how do you guys do, what do you work in on Zoom? Is that how you guysJonathan Aibel (00:54:24):Yeah, we, oh, we've been Skyped for, for years and years. Just, just audio. Just, I'm a, I'm Aist and I'll tell you why. JustMichael Jamin (00:54:32):Yeah, go on. And why just audio?Jonathan Aibel (00:54:34):I'm a Skype because Skype lets you Skype out. So you can call people's cell phones. So if our agent or lawyer or an executive or I know we need them to take a meeting, he's just stays in my ear and All right, let me patch him in and then you can Okay. Call. also we started before Zoom,Michael Jamin (00:54:49):Right?Jonathan Aibel (00:54:50):So we're And why no video?Michael Jamin (00:54:52):Yeah.Jonathan Aibel (00:54:54):Is, initially it was for bandwidth reasons. It was laggy at Skype at one point, and Glen was out in the sticks and didn't haveMichael Jamin (00:55:03):Because you could have used a cell, a phone. You know that Skype without video. It was a phone.Jonathan Aibel (00:55:08):Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of other things we could do, but we realized I don't need to see him staring at me. I, I don't, I, and I, I'm not like the old married couple. We're okay with the silence.Michael Jamin (00:55:21):And do you,Jonathan Aibel (00:55:22):When you're going like this and you're not hearing anything,Michael Jamin (00:55:24):Are you on final draft collaborator? Is that what you're doing? Or what? No. Well, how'sJonathan Aibel (00:55:29):That? I know there's a lot of, there's a lot of that You could, we could do. And if it's real, really important, we might say, oh, let's, like now we outline on, on Google Docs.Michael Jamin (00:55:41):Okay.Jonathan Aibel (00:55:41):Instead of sending Word documents back and forth, is this, are you working on Tuesday's version? No, this is Thursday's. Wait. Now you, now you can see it. And that's useful. But I, I feel like daring, there are two ways to write. One is staring at the words and the other is staring at the sky. Right. And one day, some days I feel like doing one Glen feels like one sometimes the other like, I don't want to even know what's there. I just want to, but who's coming up with stuff? In, well, hopefully Glen, there have been times where we'll come up with a whole thing and then say, you got that. I thought you were typingMichael Jamin (00:56:20):.Jonathan Aibel (00:56:21):So we, we usually sa

Note: The Hockey News On The 'Q' and each of THN's podcasts are moving to new dedicated podcast channels! Visit this link to find where to subscribe to THN On The 'Q' on your preferred platform: https://thehockeynews.com/podcast/thn-on-the-q-mooseheads-sold-and-coyotes-prospects On this week's edition of The Hockey News on the 'Q' with Will MacLaren and Jamie Tozer: - The Halifax Mooseheads have a new principal owner as Bobby Smith has sold the franchise to Michigan businessman Sam Simon. How does this affect the Mooseheads and the sale of CHL franchises going forward? - The Moose have also lost forward Zachary l'Heureux for 10 games due to his incident with a fan two weeks ago. Does the punishment fit the act? - With a month to go in the regular season, Will and Jamie discuss the race for the final playoff spots in the QMJHL. - The guys go back to the mailbag to answer your questions. - The Arizona Coyotes boast QMJHL players and alumni at all levels of its system, including three players currently suiting up in the league. - This week's 2023 NHL draft prospect of the week is goaltender Quentin Miller, who has posted impressive numbers between the pipes for the powerful Quebec Remparts.

Internet Culture Shift: Jim finds that the trends for online content have gone more lowfi, are the days of high production value content waning?Super Bowl Songs: It's that time of year everyone! Let's go through the rally songs for each team in the BIG GAME.LET'S JUST TALK!, BOOGIE NIGHTS!, JUSTIN ROILAND!, RICK AND MORTY!, NO CREATIVE INPUT!, DAN HARMON!, VOICES!, MATT GROENING!, DAVID X. COHEN!, SAM SIMON!, PANCREATIC CANCER!, PATRICK SWAYZE!, JENNIFER TILLY!, CHUCKY!, TIFFANY!, JEFFREY EPSTEIN!, FLIGHT LOGS!, DISENCHANTMENT!, LIV MORGAN!, SUPER BOWL HYPE SONGS!, PARODY SONGS!, CHIEFS!, EAGLES!, RALLY!, FLY EAGLES FLY!, SLEEPY!, NOTHING!, DEAD SILENCE!, CARRY THE SHOW!, TEAM ON MY BACK!, NMAN!, TIKTOK!, LOFI!, PRODUCTION VALUE!, EFFORT!, VOICE CHANGER!, FILTERS!, KEITH LEE!, CRYING IN THE VET'S OFFICE!, GENERATION Z!, IGNORE YOUR PHONE!, AI ART!, AI GENERATED CONTENT!, DEAD EYES!, LIFELESS!, FLY EAGLES FLY!, HISTORY!, TOWNIES!, POP PUNK!, OLD UNCLES!, NEW JIMMY BUFFET!, YACHT ROCK!, LATER SKATER!, POP PUNK VOICE!, MAC LETHAL!, ARIANA GRANDE!, MAC MILLER!, UGLY!, REGULAR DUDE!, PETE DAVIDSON!, SLIBNIK!, THE FINAL MATCH!, OMINOUS!, VANESSA!, WHITE RAPPERS!, FORT MINOR!, MR TUXEDO!, CASPER BROWN!, SKINAMARINK!, GLASSJAW!, MIDNIGHT GREEN!, PAUL BARRETT!, WORKOUT TIPS!, MELISSA ETHERIDGE!, MEEK MILL!, HIT EM UP!, 49ERS!, COUNTRY!, ACOUSTIC GUITARS!, PATRICK MAHOMES!, CHURCH MOM!, CRAZY VOICE!, SIGOURNEY WEAVER TEETH!, MCCHESNEY22222!, BITS!, BLANE HOWARD!, FREDDY MERCURY!, HURTS SO GOOD!, BEASTIE BOYS!, FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT!, BACKSTREET BOYS!, KC'S BACK ALRIGHT!, SPANISH SONG!, POETRY!, FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS!You can find the videos from this episode at our Discord RIGHT HERE!

The Simpsons have been around for over 30+ years. The brainchild of Matt Groening, we've all come to know Homer, Marge, Bart, Lisa, & Maggie and laugh at their comedic life on the Fox Network. Super Simpsons fan Joey O Zooms into the Plastic Microphone Studios to discuss our favorite episodes (minus my Treehouse of Horror selections.) And with over 740 episodes, there's a LOT to discuss. Eat my shorts. Doh!. Showrunners include Matt Groening, James L. Brooks, Sam Simon, Al Jean, Mike Reiss, David Mirkin, Bill Oakley, Josh Weinstein, Mike Scully, & Matt Selman. Links on our Profile Page and at www.linktr.ee/hulkboy. Visit & interact on Instagram (www.instagram.com/favefivefromfans), Twitter (www.twitter.com/Fave5FromFans), Facebook (www.facebook.com/FaveFiveFromFans), & our website (www.FaveFiveFromFans.com). Also, check out www.twitter.com/@PMStudiosPod for more fun! @NetworkSIP #FaveFiveFromFans #FFFF #podcast #podcasts #podcasting #podcastlife #podcaster #podcasters #podcastshow #podcastersofinstagram #anchorfm #spotify #spotifypodcasts #itunes #applepodcasts #youtube #googlepodcasts #overcast #stitcher #stitcherpodcasts #castbox #castboxpodcasts #PodcastSuggestions #podcastinglife #podcastaddict #newpodcast #podcastlove #podcastmovement #podcasthost #podcastnetwork #podernfamily #bhfyp #Movie #Movies #Comedy #EveryoneIsFam #SIPNetwork #PodernFamily #PodcastNation #PodcastNetwork #PodcastRecommendations #FollowBack #CrowdsourcedPodcastDatabase #PodTime #simpsons #thesimpsons #homersimpson #bartsimpson #memes #simpsonsmemes #homer #cartoon #bart #lossimpsons #art #simpson #lisasimpson #simpsonsfan #meme #margesimpson #springfield #simpsonscollection #love #simpsonstoys #simpsonsart #funny #marge #lisa #maggiesimpson #mattgroening #simpsonsedit #humor #instagram #follow #simpsonsmeme #homerosimpson #simpsonscollector #lossimpson #simpsonsclips #thesimpsonstoys #simpsonsfanatic #simpsonsfans #simpsonstattoo #fox #maggie #simpsonsfamily #familyguy #thesimpsonsfan #tattoo #simpsonscharacters #Springfield #HomerSimpson #MargeSimpson #BartSimpson #LisaSimpson #MaggieSimpson #AbrahamSimpson #Snowball #ApuNahasapeemapetilon #BarneyGumble #BleedingGumsMurphy #ChiefClancyWiggum #DeweyLargo #Eddie #EdnaKrabappel #ItchyandScratchy #JaneyPowell #JasperBeardly #KentBrockman #KrustyTheClown #LennyLeonard #Lou #MartinPrince #MarvinMonroe #MilhouseVanHouten #MoeSzyslak #MrBurns #NedFlanders #OttoMann #PattyBouvier #RalphWiggum #ReverendTimothyLovejoy #SelmaBouvier #SeymourSkinner #SherriandTerri #SideshowBob #ToddFlanders #WaylonSmithers #CarlCarlson #DolphStarbeam #DrJuliusHibbert #DrNickRiviera #ElizabethHoover #HelenLovejoy #HermanHermann #JacquelineBouvier #JimboJones #KearneyZzyzwicz #LionelHutz #MaudeFlanders #MayorJoeQuimby #NelsonMuntz #PrincessKashmir #ProfessorJonathanFrink #RainierWolfcastle #RodFlanders #SideshowMel #TroyMcClure #WiseGuy #AgnesSkinner #AkiraKurosawa #ComicBookGuy #GroundskeeperWillie #JudgeRoySnyder #KangandKodos --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/fave-five-from-fans/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/fave-five-from-fans/support

In this episode I got to interview Grammy award winning keyboardist and producer, Samuel Simon!! He is the main keys player for Maverick City and Chandler Moore. He has also played for Travis Greene, Kirk Franklin and many more! He shares a lot of wisdom about being integral and staying ready rather than getting ready!!

  02:13 Writers strike meeting 03:07 How he got started 08:32 Meeting The Three Stooges 10:03 Sam Simon story  12:18 The second job- Out of this World 16:16 Getting The Simpsons  22:17  Top 5 Simpsons episodes 28:51 BetOnline  30:54 Duncanville 32:05 The Simpsons Movie 34:15 Keeping up with show canon  39:30 What are you watching? 48:16 Dave Grohl on Duncanville    Follow us all on twitter: @scullymike @dannyzuker @jennyjohnsonhi5 @theguydf @doinitpodcast

Jay is an Emmy-winning writer and producer known for shows like The Simpsons, Frasier, George Lopez, Malcolm In The Middle, and School of Rock.Show NotesJay Kogen's IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0463124/Jay Kogen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jaykogenJay Kogen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaykogen//Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAuto-Generated TranscriptsJay Kogen:Improv helps this to be able to risk. You don't know what's coming. You don't know what you're gonna do. And you commit to a character and you commit to an idea and you take it and see where it goes. It's no different than when you sit down to write a scene and you're about to commit to writing a scene. You might know where it's supposed to go, kind of. But this is what really, when it's time to commit to writing it,Michael Jamin:You're listening to screenwriters Need to Hear this with Michael Jam.Hey everyone, it's Michael Jam. Welcome back to Screenwriters. Need to hear this today. I got a very special guest that none of you deserve to hear. You're just not good enough. But if you , But if you do wanna listen, pull over. If you're listening to your car, pull over. You gotta, because this is a big shot in the TV world. So with my guest, I have Jay Cogan and I have to, You gotta know who this guy, this guy's been around the block. Okay. He started at, I believe he started on the Tracy Allman show. He wrote on The Simpsons, the single guy, The Wrong Guy. This was back when he told his agent he would only do guy shows and everyone's like, This guy's out of his mind. But then he did Frazier. George Lopez. You did the first. I was in the other George Lopez.You're the one people think I run a Lopez. Nah, not that Lopez or Malcolm in the Middle. And I'm leaving off half your credits. I'm just skimming through this. That class Happi divorced to Troop Wendell and Vinny Kirsty, which is where we worked together for 10 minutes. Cuz I was for the freelance episode that we did. But that was only 10, honestly. That was a real fast interaction. Then Ned and Stacy School of Rock. And then now you're doing, I guess oversharing and Renaissance. I wanna talk more about that and the new Punky Brewster. I don't know how that happened, I wanna know more about that. But, okay, so my guest is Jay Hogan and I gotta say, I never told you this, Chad, but my first job was on Just Shoe Me. And so I was a young baby writer and everyone that, on that staff, it was like Laan and Andy Gordon Con and Stephen Engel and you were one of these names that always came up. It was j Hogan said the funniest thing on Frazier. J Hogan did this. He came into the room, he did that and you were on, Honestly, in my mind, you were like this mythical character. And even at the time I was like, I don't know if it's j Hogan or Jake Hogan. And I don't want to ask because I don't.Jay Kogen:No one does. No one knows. It's true. No one knows. It's tooMichael Jamin:Bad. Just ask. TrueJay Kogen:. I'm still mythical. By the way, just so you know, you're still, I may or may not be realMichael Jamin:Mythical. Right? Mythical, Okay.Jay Kogen:Yeah. Now you said I'm mythical. I don't know. So you don't know whether I'm real or not. SoMichael Jamin:I don't know. I don't wanna find out.Jay Kogen:I dunno.Michael Jamin:But we'll get to the bottom of this. PeopleJay Kogen:Who are driving, who pulled over, thank you for pulling over , I appreciate it. I hope you're safe. Put your hazards on.Michael Jamin:I So Jay, I got a million questions for you, but I guess let's start with the beginning. Everyone wants to know, how did you break in to Hollywood?Jay Kogen:Oh, it was a really rough ride, man. My dad was a writer producer, and I asked him to introduce me to some of his friends,Michael Jamin:. And let's talk about your dad. AndJay Kogen:I took it from there.Michael Jamin:But he wrote, and he wrote on a bunch of shows like Mary Tyler Moore show. What else did youJay Kogen:Write on? He did, he read, he wrote a Mary Tyler Moore, I believe. He wrote a Mash, he wrote A New Heart and The New Heart Show, Bob Newhart Show and Newhart, he wrote on The Covert Show and the Dean Martin Show and the Jim Davis show and the Donny Marie Show. And he worked on Empty Nest and he worked on a million shows and wrote one shitty movie,Michael Jamin:DidJay Kogen:Do it. It's called a soupy sales movie called Birds Do It. And my father was telling me that he can't bear to watch it . He hasn't seen it since 19 causeMichael Jamin:Rewritten. Cause Soki re rewroteJay Kogen:It. No, he wrote it completely. No, it's his fault. He's saying he's, it's horrible and it's his fault.Michael Jamin:But you grew up around it. So I thought you were from Brooklyn, but you grew,Jay Kogen:I was born in Brooklyn and my dad moved from Brooklyn. He was working on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. And he moved out from Brooklyn to come work on the Dean Martin Show in 1968. Jesus. And that was my first experience on a sound stage, was on the Dean Martin Show on a Christmas episode. And it said, Ah, this looks like a fun job. Little did I know that writing is not a fun job. Writing is a really unfun job.Michael Jamin:People don't realize that. But what was it? So what was it growing around it? Did you talk shop with you? I don't know. TalkJay Kogen:About I, my talking shop was gonna be limited . But even whenMichael Jamin:You got older, did he tell you how to write a script?Jay Kogen:No. I mean, here's the thing. You grew up in a family that I'm sure was a funny family. No question if you're funny. You grew up in a funny family. My father,Michael Jamin:My dad invented comedy , he told me he made it up.Jay Kogen:So my father and mother are funny and if I try to make a joke at the table and get them to laugh, it was a great victory. So you'd hone your skills to make people laugh at the dinner table or on the living room couch. And that's kind of your writer's room training. And that's how you sort become the jokey guy in high school or junior high and become the jokey guy. So jokes, jokes were stock and trade in my house and my way to win my father's affection. So I tried to get good at it,Michael Jamin:But you still had to learn story structure, you had to write a script.Jay Kogen:Well that sucked. It took me years to do that because I was done. I had money. Most writers, we had jokes, but we didn't really understand story structure at all. We thought we knew it was funny and we thought, oh, just put funny stuff down and that'll be enough and that is way wrong. But that's what I thought. And I wrote some spec scripts and handed them to my dad and he said, This is terrible. Become a lawyer. He would say, Do not try to become a writer. This is awful. I wrote with some successful writers today who I work with in school. The Billy Ray who was at Academy Award and nominated writer and Robbie Fox and mm-hmm , Wally Wolodarsky became my partner at The Simpsons and Tracy Ownership. And we wrote all the time. And my father would read these scripts and go, These are terrible.Do not get into the business. And so eventually I started working on PAing, on TV shows, getting people delivering scripts at three in the morning and getting people lunches, . And if I got it wrong, they'd scream at me and mm-hmm , all that kind of stuff. But I would learn, sit in the writer's room and watch them work out stories and figure out how they did stories. So that process was really enlightening. And so my partner and I, I tried to write a script and we wrote a script with a, it's for it's Gary Channeling show. Mm-hmm worked out one of their stories, which were always strange. And we did that. They kinda liked the script but they didn't buy it. And then we wrote another one and they didn't buy that. But then that became a sample that we got a job at the Tracy Allman Show from. And that's how it worked. And at the Tracy Allman show, under Heidi Pearlman and Jim Brooks and Sam Simon and Jerry Bellson, I started to learn that drama had a big part in comedy. And so there wasn't just jokes, it was jokes and story and characters that you cared about and situations that had impact and stakes and all those kind of things that you know about when you're a kid. But you ignore it and go like that. What's funny?Michael Jamin:Yeah. Right. It's so funny cuz I talk about this all the time. I wanna say you're gonna confirm, I guess hopefully. Or maybe I'm just an old blowhard and I just sound like an old frank. But I have a feeling you're gonna confirm a lot of stuff that I say. Cause I'm always like, no, the story's the most important thing. Jokes cut. You can always interchange the jokes. And people don't quite understand that whenJay Kogen:You can be a blow heart and also be right. So , those two things are not incongruous. But yes I will. When I talk to writers, I say that the story is first, character is second and jokes are third that you need the story is the hardest thing. Breaking a story is in writing is the hardest thing. Breaking a story, breaking it, making it sure that it pops, making sure that we're not going down stupid roads. That's the hardest thing. Everything else, the jokes are the easiest thing honestly. And the most replaceable thing, you don't like a joke, we'll cut it out and put a new joke in a character as they're very important. But sometimes you write something you realize, oh I have two characters that are the exact same person, and I, I'm gonna condense them into one person. Or I have characters doing the same, serving the same purpose in the story. And that's not a good idea. And so the story has to come first and that's always the most difficult thing. I always recommend to all writers, , outline your shit. Outline what you're gonna do before you're write. Show the outline to somebody, , get feedback on it before you waste your time writing a script on a story that's not gonna work.Michael Jamin:So that that's exactly right. I have to wanna bring this up cause I don't wanna forget this, but cuz my partner and I came in, we wrote, we did a freelance on the Kew Show, which we were on . And I have to say it was one of the most enjoyable experiences cuz it was like the last time, I mean I want to hear your thoughts on this. It was the last time I really was in a writer's room full of writers who had more experience than me because now it seems like I'm the old guy in the room now I'm the veteran guy and I really enjoyed working. YouJay Kogen:Made that in your brand, you were now that's your brand, you the experience guy . Yeah.Michael Jamin:But it was so much fun cuz you get to hear other people's stories, you get to hear their wisdom. There was so many heavy hitters in that room.Jay Kogen:Yeah, that was a fun room. I mean I've had a lot of fun rooms. The rooms are still fun when I go and do them. So like and am the oldest guy in the room now maybe, but I'm not sure sometimes. Depends on the show. But I've certainly been around a long, long time. So I'm going on, it'll be 40 years soon. That's a long time.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it is a long time. Yeah. So what do you accredit your longevity to? Is it you're getting your last three jobs basically?Jay Kogen:Well, the same way I got my first three jobs. It's sort of praying, meeting the right people, saying the right thing, wandering into a stupid situation that you didn't know about. And suddenly they have job so not organized. And so this, they're these jobs and you should, you're going to audition for these jobs and this is how it's a much more hazardous, haphazard. There's a show here and they may need somebody and you should be developing something here and you have a million irons in the fire and we'll see what happens.Michael Jamin:So you're constantly hustling. So it's not like your agents just setting this up, Oh hey, they wanna hire someone that you fit the bill. Right? I mean it's not as easyJay Kogen:As that. No, rarely that rarely happens. And sometimes it does. But I mean honestly demographically, I'm not the key kind of person that they're looking for right now. . And there's a million reasons for that. I mean we should talk about that. There's a need, There has been a desperate need to make the playing field equal to all people from all different backgrounds and for many, many years, sort of Jewish white guys, Had a preference. So we're now the guy like me, Brooklyn Jewish, Brooklyn Encino Jewish guy is, there's a dime a dozen, there's a lot of us . And then there's a brand new writers coming from different areas of experience and worlds and different backgrounds and more women and more people of, of uh, LGBTQ and more bipo people. And they all need a chance. They're sort starting to get a chance. And that means there's less room for people like you and me. And there's shorter pickups and there's smaller rooms. And so it, it's become a lot harder.Michael Jamin:It's a lot more hustle. And so you're also developing, how are you going about developing? Is it your own ideas or what are you doing?Jay Kogen:Some are my own ideas, some are ideas that I have with other people that I meet and I think, oh that's a good idea. Let's see if I can fix that. There's a pilot we're working on called Oversharing that's based on a play that I saw at UCB about a year and a half ago. And so we took the characters and the lifestyle of the characters in the play. The actors were also the writers. So I went, worked with these two women in their late twenties about what it means you toMichael Jamin:Be. So you approach them, you approach them, you say, Hey, I wanna develop your show.Jay Kogen:Yeah. Yes. With the help of Naomi Odenkirk, who is a manager, not my manager, but had called me in to, had seen this and I wanted to work with her and she said this is a good thing. So she matched me with these people and we've been working on this together for a while. And now we wrote a pilot and we're sort of seeing where it goes.Michael Jamin:So, Okay. That's interesting cuz sometimes people, you write the pilot first you go out with a pitch but you decided to write it first.Jay Kogen:Well here's the thing, we had a couple different things going on. The writers who were the actresses who did this didn't have writing samples, but they wanted to be part of the show. So to prove that they are able to write, they wrote, so this is their first episode and they'd like to be in it too, but maybe we'll sell it without them in it. But this is to prove proof of concept. Here's this thing, we may not use it to sell the show, we may,Michael Jamin:And you kind of just oversaw it. You didn't help with the writing, you just directed them a little bit or noJay Kogen:. Well we pitched out the story together. I taught them kind of how the story structure's gonna work and and bring their play into a series. That whole transfer from interesting series, I guess I would get it developed by credit, something like that. But I didn't write the script. I helped rewrite the script, but I was involved heavily in the creation of it. So mean, my goal in this kind of thing is not to put my stamp on it. My goal is to take their world, their idea and bring it to life. And so the second I'm of putting my 50 year old guy brand on her, their 20 something life, it's gonna get ruined. So I just have to sit back and appreciate the world they're creating and then give my input here or there about maybe steering in certain directions and maybe this is what makes it fun of your story and reminding them what their goal was and who their characters were. Sometimes you'd lose that track of that.Michael Jamin:So how do you feel young writers have changed now? How are they different now than in attitude and preparedness andJay Kogen:Everything? So much dumber.Michael Jamin:So much dumber. ,Jay Kogen:They're the same. I honestly feel like they're exactly the same. Different, The writer's rooms are different. What we're allowed to say and how we're allowed to behave is different. Yeah, I'm not going to say it's better or worse. It's just different. In the old days, we could make fun of each other. . And I was famous for doing room jokes. I did jokes, a lot of jokes in a writer's room. Sometimes people would say things and I would die. Sometimes people would say things and I would run out of the room so that you could see me in the window and just keep on running. And if my car was in the visual aspect of when I would get in my car and drive away, I would do a lot of jokes. I would get physically ill at something that if I heard two people were kissing or something, like I would do jokes, , all of which was based on the idea that they know I'm joking.So I could make a joke about somebody who knew I was joking. I could make a joke about them or what they were wearing that day and they knew that I love them and I'm joking, right? That's not okay anymore. You cannot depend on people to understand your intention or even give a shit about your intention. If there's a joke at their expense, you're in trouble. So you don't joke about stuff anymore at anyone else's expense. We don't joke about their background, we don't joke about where they're from or who they anything about their lives. We keep it nice and businesslike and then we just try to do the work. So writer's rooms have become, ultimately for me, a lot less fun and a lot more, I wanna make a joke and I'm like, I can't do it cause I don't want to offend people, but I also don't want to get in trouble.And I think younger people can be offended. I'm, I'm working with some college kids now. I was teaching a class at USC and as a college professor, you have to really be on your, you're, this is not a writer's room, this is a school. But those writing students I'm working with all seem like they're making jokes all the time about all things. So they're more like I was when I was a young person, but I'm not making those jokes because I'm a professor. So I, I'm kind stay out of the realm of anything close to offensive or dirty or strange or anything.Michael Jamin:That's interesting. I didn't, didn't know, butJay Kogen:There's insane, I just wanna make jokes.Michael Jamin:I didn't know you were teaching at usc. How long have you been doing that?Jay Kogen:Half a minute. Oh, I had John Bowman, the writer, John Bowman was a friend of mine and he was teaching a sketch writing class and he unexpectedly died, which is good cuz when you expect to die, allMichael Jamin:Doesn't worse worth.Jay Kogen:So then they asked me to step in to fill, fulfill, fill it, the class that he was teaching. So I started doing that.Michael Jamin:Right. Wow. And I also know you, I didn't, But you're also doing, you do improv.Jay Kogen:Oh yeah, no, I've been doing it for my whole life. I started at the ground when I started in show business, my goal was to not be a writer. My goal was cause writing seemed, I watched my dad writing is lonely, it's quiet, it's intensive. , it seemed hard. I like working with people, I like having jokes, having good times. So I started being an actor and a standup comedian. And then when I was 16 I was, when I was a kid, I was an actor. When I was 16, I was still trying to be an actor and doing standup. And then I transitioned over to the Groundlings, which was a much better atmosphere to be part of than the improv or the comedy store. And I sort of figured out what character and story was based on that. That helped a lot. By the way, I do recommend that if you, you're a writer to take acting courses and take improv courses because you'll learn a shit ton of what you need to know. about being a writer. The other thing you need to do is take editing courses. If you can take a course in editing movies or editing TV shows, you'll learn what's important to keep in your script and what's not important to keep in your script. I didn't know a thing until I started editing.Michael Jamin:Do you have, But anyway, is there any goal, Is there a goal for you for, Are you just getting up there and performing is,Jay Kogen:What do you mean?Michael Jamin:Is there an end to it?Jay Kogen:You want, I'm hoping people throw roses at me. That'sMichael Jamin:My goal. But I don't know. Do you want to turn it into something or do you just enjoy the process of getting up there and performing?Jay Kogen:It's improv is cult a cultish comedy religion. So you do it because you learn the skill. It's like if I was a Glassblower and suddenly I learned how to make little glass animals when I was 16 and I still know how to do it and I like it. So I'm doing improv then the goal is to stay loose, keep your mind fresh. It helps improv helps this to be able to risk. You don't know what's coming. You don't know what you're gonna do. And you commit to a character and you commit to an idea and you take it and see where it goes. It's no different than when you sit down to write a scene and you're about to commit to writing a scene. You might know where it's supposed to go, kind of. But this is what really, when it's time to commit to writing it and there's a blank piece of paper and you have to be the character who says this other thing, then turn your mind to the other character that says this thing and what are they thinking and how are they acting and how are you being, and what does the scene look like and how do you fill the space with physicality and all the things.These are the things that you learn from improv and these are the things I still love doing it because it keeps me fresh and reminds me of that. It's fun to create.Michael Jamin:And how often do you go up?Jay Kogen:The group that I'm working with now go the Transformers. We go up about once a month and then I'm also an improv whore. And I will appear with any other improv group that asks me. Usually the Groundlings has a show called Crazy Uncle Joe and I do that sometimes. Or cooking with gas or sometimes I guess with another group. So it's just fun to work with different people inMichael Jamin:When you do that though, I mean, I know it's improv, but is there any kind of rehearsal with these people? Or are you up there for the first time with these people you don't even know.Jay Kogen:Again, it's something you've learned. You started by taking courses and saying, okay, this is how you do it. You agree , You know, pretend that you're stand up there and pretend that you're a bumblebee. Right. Okay. What would a bumblebee do? Bumblebee might go from flower to flower. A bumblebee might pollinate a, you just put your mind into the thing. So you slowly work up from the beginnings of improv, which is just agreeing. Then you're in a scene with another bumblebee and now you have to figure out what does one bumblebee want and what does the other bumblebee want in the scene. And you're a skill you develop to listen to what other people are saying, agree with it, add information, have an attitude, have a goal, and don't talk over each other and be physicalize the scene. These are things that you learn how to do over time and if you get good at it, you can do it forever.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you andMichael Jamin:It's absolutely free. Just go to michael jamin.com/watchlist. All right. So yeah, you were working, you knew , Tom Maxwell, and you're gonna tell that story.Jay Kogen:All right. So yeah, Tom was the runner of director of the Groundlings when I was there, and he had a very distinctive laugh and very distinctive kind of from one of the Carolinas, I forget which one.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I think it was North. Yeah,Jay Kogen:North, I think so Carolina. And he was great audience, a great audience. He loved the laugh, was wonderful to have. And he's the guy I interviewed with to get into the Groundlings to start working at the school. And then I worked starting at 16, I started doing the school and didn't get into the Groundlings until I was 18.Michael Jamin:Oh, interesting. Wow. So you really did the whole training there and that, Wow. Yeah,Jay Kogen:And there was the training we,Michael Jamin:I'm sure it was, I actually took a, So Tom was a writer, I think season three of just shooting me. And then he went up co-running it in the later years. And I remember he came in the first day, This is how important improv is. It's like the first day we're breaking a story and I guess he was just showing off and he just starts acting out the scene and doing all the characters. And I was like, look at this guy. Go. And we were all just staring and the writers says, We're all just staring. And I shoot the writers, I was like, Dude, what are you doing? Type start typing because everything he's saying is going into the script.Jay Kogen:Well, I've seen a lot of writers do that. James Brooks, James L. Brooks is able to do that. Just pitch out a scene from top to bottom. I mean, it's amazing. It's not, it's downgrading it. It's amazing when people can do that. But yeah, when we were at The Simpsons, we would pitch in character, People would pitch as Homer, pitch as Marge. We were , we used the voice and we were that. So it trains you to sort of pitch a joke and risk having everyone hate itMichael Jamin:,Jay Kogen:And by being improv,Michael Jamin:But it's also when you pitch a joke and it bombs, at least then you improv a funny back, a backup to it.Jay Kogen:I guess you can save yourself by acknowledging the bomb or not acknowledging it. It depends on how late its sometimes. Yeah, sometimes there's just silence. . Right, Let's move on, let's go pastMichael Jamin:It. Tom used to get very cranky around 8:00 PM I think is my bed. , you gotta work till midnight or whatever.Jay Kogen:Some people can't do the late nights.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Well so how do you go about, even other than working with these other actors, how do you go about developing shows? Do you have a process? What do you think?Jay Kogen:Well, anything that inspires you, and then you check it out with your people and say, Is there a show like this already in development? Or do we think that we can attach good people to this thing? So have to figure out how to position it. You have an idea then how do you position it? Who's it for? Can you create auspices to join forces with you to make it a more powerful sale? When's the right time to sell it? All those kind of things go into the mix of that kind of stuff.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And so what do you usually try to team up with a producer? Is that what you, I mean?Jay Kogen:Right. This Oversharing project is now with Sharon Hogan's company called Merman Mer. So, so they, especially women's stories. And this is a women's story and it's like it's a good company when you're dealing with the story of women in their late twenties in the sort of dismal landscape of what life is like for them.Michael Jamin:. Right. That's so interesting. Yeah. And so, what was I gonna say about that?Jay Kogen:I have a show that I'm writing with that I'm helping some newer African American writers with, and we're trying to get Kenya Barris to sign on to be part of this thing. So he's a good auspices for that. And then I have a show about Jewish boys from Encino and Mel Brooks would No jokingMichael Jamin:About it. Nope, that'd be great. Yeah, I worked with them. I worked with them on Glen Martin. You brought 'em in. I damn, I'm directing Mel Brooks. It was very intimidating.Jay Kogen:Now Mel Mels not intimidating, he just won't shut up. But ,Michael Jamin:It was still like, I'm telling him directions. Who might be telling Mel Brooks how to play the line? Well,Jay Kogen:If he didn't like, like your directions, he'd tell youMichael Jamin:,Jay Kogen:Yeah, I don't wanna do it. I'm gonna walk over here. Gonna,Michael Jamin:Yeah, there was definitely the case. I remember I like telling him, ask him to get him again. And he goes, No, no, you got it the first time. I'm like, Sounds good to me. .Jay Kogen:We worked with him on the Tracy Oman show and he had a million ideas about what he wanted his character to do and we was just like, Okay, go for it.Michael Jamin: Mel Brooks. Wow. Well, so wait, I had a thought, butJay Kogen:To go back to your original question, how do you develop something? Call Reiner the great Carl Reiner speaking. Bob Brooks gave me advice and he said, Figure out the hill. You're standing on that only the vantage point that only you have and make a show about that. So interesting. Make it about your world or your point of view or your, something that's really on your mind that only you can see. And that was his advice. And I thought that was good advice.Michael Jamin:And we hear that a lot. It's like, why are you the only people to write this show? And then you gotta think of a reason.Jay Kogen:You have to lie and say, Well , this happened to me or this is my thing. But obviously when you're a writer, you're bringing something that's personal to you. It doesn't have to experienced the thing to have experienced the emotion that the thing is connected to. Sometimes the show is about love or sometimes the show is about abandonment or sometimes the show is about lack of credibility or the show is about ego and the specifics of the show are not necessarily the specifics of your life, but that's something that you're very aware of and something that's meaningful to you. And if it's meaningful to you, then it's gonna have a resonance that's gonna count. And that's what I try to do when I write something. It's because I relate to it and I feel it and I feel like there's a truth in it. Right.Michael Jamin:These are all good words. And how did you, let's say a show, the remake for Punky Brewster, how did you get involved in that? I'm always wondering how thatJay Kogen:Happens. My friends, Steve and Jim Armita had created it and produced it and I'd worked with them on a show called School of Rock and they hired me to help them. I mean that was it a friend a I not, I didn't know anything about punk. Brewster hadn't watched it. Oh, I didn't, no know much about it, but I got to know about it. And so then we tried to make, it had been the development for many, many years. Universal was trying to use their own properties and make something of it. And so that's what happened. It sort of came together over the course of five years.Michael Jamin:Wow. See it takes how long it takes.Jay Kogen:Yeah.Michael Jamin:And now people, I get this question a lot. I don't know if you have a good answer for it, but do you have a preference to do single camera, multi camera animation?Jay Kogen:Well, I think it's harder to sell a single camera show. Everybody wants to buy. Every network says they wanna buy a single camera show, but then they don't always buy mean, excuse me, Every network wants to buy, say they wanna buy a multi camera show because it's cheaper, but they always wind up buying single camera shows because they're cooler. And so I'd rather sell the show that gets made. And so right now I'm interested in selling single camera shows. However, I love Multicam. I do like the process, I know it. But I watch many Multicam shows going like, Oh that's great. Tv I think the single camera shows are better cuz they're more like movies. You don't have to lean on jokes quite so much. It's more about the story. If you tell the filmically there's no laugh track. So it's just funny is, and it's different experience. I don't know you when the Multicam, if it will ever pop back as a main force. But it's, seeMichael Jamin:It'd be nice. Now you, I didn't look, Have you done any direction directing?Jay Kogen:Oh yeah, I love directing.Michael Jamin:Oh you do?Jay Kogen:Okay. It, I would give it up to just directMichael Jamin:Really What You like it that much. A lot of guys, guys haven't given up to. Why do you like that more than writing?Jay Kogen:It's collaborative. I'm not alone in a room, I'm given, I have material sometimes I've written the material so I know the intention. But I like working with cameras. I like working with the actors. I'm an actor, I'm an old actor. So I like acting and I like actors and I like working with them and figuring out the big picture and figuring out, making sure that all the pieces in the editing room are there. Having edited many shows now, knowing, okay, we need this reaction and that reaction and we get, this is the joke, this joke needs to be close or this joke needs to be wide or let's have a choice. Those kind of things are great. And when I've directed film, single camera, film action things, they've been great. I love using the camera, I love using stunts, I love using and anything that I can envision. I love storyboarding stuff and making them happen.Michael Jamin:Who do you feel you've learned the most from? What directors have taught you the most?Jay Kogen:Hitchcock, I mean,Michael Jamin:. Sit. Come guys. I hate say,Jay Kogen:I mean they're all great. I've learned from every single director we've worked from, I've been lucky enough to work with Jim Burrows and I've been lucky enough to work with,I mean there's Victor Gonzalez and I've been working just all these directors who know what they're doing. A guy named Jonathan Judge who I work with , who'd really just knows what he's doing. He knows the feeling, he knows how to keep the set alive and people happy. And there's a lot to do when you're director and what and when you're TV director, you're really trying to fulfill the vision of the producers , which is great. And when I direct even on shows that I've executive producing, I'm asking my other writers, Do I have it? Are you good? Are we satisfied? I'm not just saying I got it and I want everybody's opinion. I want to change things if people don't have it. Cause we are only here on the set this moment. I wanna get everything we need to get. And I like being collaborative and I like hearing notes. Unlike when I'm a writer, when I don't want to hear notes. As a director, I love hearing notes. Interesting. I love adjusting. Can we get that? Yes, absolutely. Let's go for it.Michael Jamin:That's so funny you say that. Yeah. Writers writers don't like hearing that. Don't the same way. I don't want to hear your notes hard.Jay Kogen:I thought about it maybe the thing that I liked and now you don't know whether it's gonna work and neither do why, but let's go with my way. Yeah, that's the general feeling.Michael Jamin:And how do you mostly handle Jesus studio notes or network note. And when you turn in a draft from a pilot or whatever, what's your first instinct?Jay Kogen:My first instinct is to tell them to fuck off. I hope that instinct . And instead I say, Well that's a good note. Or I put them into three piles, Notes that are good notes and sometimes I get really good notes. Notes that are neutral notes that are just like, you want to go that way versus this way. And they're kind of the same but alright. And notes that are show ruining. So the only notes I will fight about are the show ruining notes,Michael Jamin:,Jay Kogen:Everything else. I will say thank you and what a great idea and I really appreciate it and I will, cause I wanna be collaborative and I wanna take it, if they think a green couch is better than a blue couch, then if we can get a green couch, let's get a green couch. Yeah, that's fine. WeMichael Jamin:Call those lateral notes. This note will move the script three feet to the right. It's gonna take, I'm be up all night doing it and alright, I'll do it.Jay Kogen:Just do it because they need it and they want it. And it doesn't hurt the show. The ones that hurt the show. You gotta say, now I don't tell me about that. Because I think that thread that you're pulling ruins the show. And so let's talk about the thing about it. If it's a story about somebody adopting a dog and then the dog ruins their life and they say something along the lines of, But maybe the dog is nice. And you go like, Well if the dog is nice, then there's no show because then we don't have the conflict that's at the core of this particular thing. So we're just throwing out the whole show based than that and this, Well, why do you want the dog nicer? Well it's too mean in this thing. So we can then distill moments where they think, okay, it's not having fun watching the dog X, Y, and Z. Let's change those things to be things that are more fun for the executives or other people to watch. Then we can save the show but not do the show ruining note.Michael Jamin:Right? Because often you'll get notes from people who don't have much experience in the business and they just have this job, they're giving you notes and you don't want to hurt their feelings, but they don't know how to do it yet. So it's a delicate dance.Jay Kogen:And also they're not idiots people, the network executives, every writer likes to think a network executive, they're all idiots have decided to do this other thing. But they could have been writers and they might have been writers in another life and have, the reason they went into it is because they like TV and they like stories and they have an opinion. So embrace them as your partnersMichael Jamin:That'sJay Kogen:Try to make them your partner so that you have a happier existence with everyone.Michael Jamin:We both work with Steve Bald Ows and I was surprised to learn that he was an executive for many years. I was like, What? I felt like you've been a SP these years.Jay Kogen:I didn't know that, but I'm not shocked he has. You didn't know that leader of an executive? No, didn't he? I would a hundred percent believe him in a nice sweater coming in work as an executive. Great.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I get that. I was shocked. But he told me he thought it was his opinion that all executives really just wanted to be writers.Jay Kogen:I think he's right that all they do. And when they give notes, they're saying, What if this is a great idea? They're hoping that you receive their note. It's like, oh that's what a great idea. Thank you for helping me write the show. And so I actually try to receive those notes that way as much as I can.Michael Jamin:It's kind of like you also building an ally. It's like the more people you can have think it's their show, then they're gonna help put it on the air and stuffJay Kogen:But not think it's their show. It is their show. They're the people who are shepherding it through the network. They're the people every, it is their show. It's not like it's not us and them, we are them, they're the same people. We have to be a team in order to survive how it's such a weird ass landscape of getting a show on the air and having anybody know it exists and having people see it. So you have to get them their publicity people involved and the network has to like it and put it in a good time slot and care about it. And it's so easy to get lost. You have to take care of your show. You have to really do a good job of bringing it through and get as many allies as you can.Michael Jamin:And how do you recommend young writers basically break in now? I mean, cuz the landscape is so different now. What do you tell people?Jay Kogen:It's the same. Write something great, keep writing something until it's great, then show that thing to everybody you can. It hasn't changed. Nobody wants to be a salesman when they become a writer, but unfortunately part of being a writer is being a salesman. And so you have to then suck it up and make call people and in a friendly way and get them to read your script. Obviously you call and say, I love your work and will you do me this favor of reading my script? And I would love your notes. Nobody wants your notes. They only want you to say it's the greatest thing in the world and I love you and I wanna hire you. But show your script. Sometimes you'll get notes and sometimes you'll get compliments and sometimes you'll say, this is terrible. And then start again and you know, have to really work hard to get through it. Plus meeting people and expanding your social circle is really important. So fighting a way to join groups and be part of schools or be part, not schools exactly, but be part of communities, professional groups and communities and find your way to expand that way.Michael Jamin:So you told people basically to come out to Hollywood too?Jay Kogen:Yeah, I mean I don't know how you're gonna do that from Des Moines. I meanMichael Jamin:H is not coming to you.Jay Kogen:Although if you live in Atlanta, if you live in places where they're making TV shows, it's possible.Michael Jamin:But they're still mostly doing the writing out here, aren't they? AndJay Kogen:Yeah, but there are lots of production, lots of people. And you can meet people and I don't know, it depends on where you're at. It's, there's a few places where production, you know, can live in New York City. You can live in Atlanta, you might be able to, Toronto and Vancouver. There are places where a lot of shows are being made, so maybe there, but LA is still the place to come, even though it's not, it's hard place to move to. It's expensive and weird and isolating and there's a lot of big parts about it.Michael Jamin:Yeah, so interesting. So great to get your take cuz I don't know, you're kind of saying so many things that I've said, but it's good to hear different.Jay Kogen:Isn't it great to hear somebody confirm all your ideas?Michael Jamin:I'm not crazy.Jay Kogen:Everything you've ever believed.Michael Jamin:Well, I have such strong opinions on when I talking to people and I'm like, wow, I could just be stubborn, but this is how I see it. But yeah, it's interesting to hearJay Kogen:You. But I mean it is new and you know, gotta write something new. And if you can get attention to something, if you can put up a show or make a , find a way to get attention to your project, to YouTube, short films, Make something on the TikTok and find out a way to be available and get your stuff out there, then you have a shot. But it's hard. It's hard. I mean it's hard once you have a show on the air, you're your old boss. Levitan has a show called Reboot that's on Hulu, I think. Yeah, I don't know who watches it because who knows It exists. It's probably, you have great cast and an esteemed writing team making it and it will come and it, unless people hear about it, nobody will know.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And one thing I also wanna stress for new writers is like, we're struggling too. We're hustling too. None of it's easy. None of it's guaranteed. It's working it to, I always say you gotta work to break in. Well, but it's too hard. Yeah, don't tell me it's too hard. I know I do it everything.Jay Kogen:It is a struggle. And you sort of want gigs coming, possible gigs come and then they go and then they don't happen. And it's hard to get in the rooms and it's all that kinda stuff. And when you're running a show, which I recently, I had a show that I was getting a writing staff for. I had a million phone calls from a million people saying, Hey, you got room. And I had to tell a million of them no. Right. Great people, really great people that I had to say no to because, And so when they say no to me, I understand why it's not the makeup of the room that that's going to make the studio happy. They have to make up a room that's going to make the studio happy. And there's only a limited amount of spaces for people like me. And that's a lot of us who need jobs. So it's an interesting time for that.Michael Jamin:So is there anything else? Is there, we can plug you. How can people follow you? I'm so grateful that you did this talk. I'm so interesting.Jay Kogen:My plug Jake Hogan at Twitter and Jake Hogan at Facebook and Jake Hogan at Instagram. And I have a TikTok account, but I don't post anything there.Michael Jamin:You don't know how to use it.Jay Kogen:I don't know how to use it and I'm not interested in making Little, Little,Michael Jamin:I think you should doJay Kogen:It. I did a dance.Michael Jamin:I think you should do it. Yeah. Get on a trending soundingJay Kogen:Right. But I do, every Friday we do something on my Twitter feed called Philosophy Friday. So on Fridays around four 30, I have a bunch of people we use. IMichael Jamin:Gotta follow you on that. I didn't know that. What's about,Jay Kogen:Well, we just talk about the life and love and fear and how to overcome the difficulties of the world. Usually I post a question for the week and we can talk about that, but people can also come and just talk about their problems. Now Twitter is famously the most vicious and horrible of all the social media. So my idea was why can't we have a little window of people who are actually nice to each other and care about each other and try to help each other on this platform of shit. And so that's what I've done and I've almost three years into this and know that it's been fun.Michael Jamin:Wow. Alright, so some people can get in touch with you. That's that's really cool. I got, now I'm gonna be following you on that.Jay Kogen:Interesting. And then if you follow me on my social medias, you can see my improv shows when I do them. And yep. You can also follow all your followers. Should listen to Charlie Cogan, who's my son, who's a musician and he just released a new record and I want everybody to hear it on for sure. Or Apple Music or Amazon or wherever it is. Charlie Cogan, K O G E N.Michael Jamin:Excellent.Jay Kogen:Jake, Not Jake Ogan. It's Jake Cogan and it's Charlie Cogan. SoMichael Jamin:Yeah. I'm glad you cleared that up by cause I was too embarrassed to ask. And what kind of music does he do?Jay Kogen:It's mostly Zither music. And what is that? It's just pop, Pop Zither is a terrible, strange instrument. No, it's just pop music. It's really great pop music. I don't know if you like, Do you like Ed Sherin? Interesting. Something like that, butMichael Jamin:Not, And so he doesn't wanna go into comedy Ready?Jay Kogen:He might, He's really fun. He might and worked on stuff together. But he's really talented musician and he's sort of honed his skills as a music songwriter, singer, music producer. And those are, he's ready to go on that level. He's not good for him ready to go as a comedy writer yet, but he could. Right. Wow. He's college right now. He's studying, so we don't really his sing, his singles come out intermittently, but he's while he is at college.Michael Jamin:Oh good. Well let's make him happen. Go listen to him on Spotify.Jay Kogen:Charlie Cogan. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Jay, thank you again so much. This is good for me to hear. I dunno if anybody else heard it, butJay Kogen:It was great to hang with you. I'd heard a lot about you and I've seen your videos on the Thes and the weird Instagrams, and that's been amazing. How do you, did you decide to do that stuffMichael Jamin:After we get off the air, but basically I was telling my manager, I had a call him the other day and I was telling him what I was doing. He goes on TikTok, he goes, Oh, I know people forward me your videos, . They go, Have you heard of this guy? I was like, Yeah, my client . But yeah,Jay Kogen:It's interesting and I think it provides a valuable service, but it seems like it would be a little bit of a time suck, but also just there's value on the other side of it.Michael Jamin:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll talk more about it. But thank you so much. Everyone. Go follow Jake Hogan and his sonJay Kogen:And ask me questions. You can reach me at any of these places and I'll answer your questions for free, just like Michael does. How do you like that? What Michael does that I'm gonna start and I'll agree with him on everything he says.Michael Jamin:, please. I need it. All right. Done Next time. Thank you so much. And oh yeah, Thank you so much.Phil Hudson:This has been an episode of Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. If you'd like to support this podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving your review and sharing this podcast with someone who needs to hear today's subject. For free daily screenwriting tips, follow Michael on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @MichaelJaminWriter. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @PhilAHudson. This episode was produced by Phil Hudson and edited by Dallas Crane. Until next time, keep writing.

Nancy Friedman, The Telephone Doctor, founder, and chairman of Telephone Doctor Customer Service Training, is back in the saddle again. Well, back into live onsite programs, and still offering her ZOOM programs, in a cost saving manner. Whichever you choose, onsite or Zoom, you'll be glad you did. Nancy is a sales, customer service and communication expert and she welcomes calls, texts, or emails! https://nancyfriedman.com/Sam Simon describes himself as being engaged in his fourth age of life, as a playwright and performer. The lawyer and original Nader's Raider likes to say that this era of his life found him, as did the story of The Actual Dance itself, after his wife was diagnosed with stage-three breast cancer. He wrote the play, The Actual Dance, which inspired this memoir, in 2012 and began performing in 2013. The Play is told through the eyes and heart of a husband as he struggles with his worst fears during what everyone expects to be his wife's losing battle to breast cancer.https://www.theactualdance.com/

This week, we have our first Podcast guest, Writer/Director Rob Cohen. Rob has written and directed for shows like The Simpsons, Wonder Years, The Ben Stiller Show, MAD TV, SNL, Just Shoot Me, Maron, Big Bang Theory & Black-ish. Join Michael Jamin and Rob Cohen as they discuss their careers, breaking in, and what it means to have a long, fruitful career in Hollywood.Show NotesMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistRob Cohen on IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0169712/Transcripts are Auto-GeneratedRob Cohen:Just shoot Me was in the nineties. And if you said NBC in the nineties had so many comedies, some were good, and some were terrible. But now, if you look at NBC, are they doing any comedies? Like maybe two?Michael Jamin:Yeah, maybe. Yeah.Rob Cohen:Yeah. So, so it's the same place, but it's the, the tide is clear. So for somebody to aspire to working on wacky old-timey NBC comedies, it's very foolish. However, if they are a self starter and, and determine what their roadmap is, nobody will stop them. You can't guarantee success, but at least you've tried it and you might be successful trying it and pursue what you like.Michael Jamin:Right. You're listening to Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jam. Hey everybody, welcome to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. My name is Michael Jamin and Phil is not here with us today, but I have a special guest. This is our first time ever having a guest on, on our podcast. And I'm absolutely thrilled that it's, you know, in Hollywood. People say this is my good friend, My, but it's true. Rob, you're my good friend and thank you.Rob Cohen:You're my goodMichael Jamin:Friend. Yeah. . And so it's nice to actually have a good friend kick off my guest on the show. So let me introduce you. This is Rob Cohen, Writer, Director, and I'm gonna scroll through some of your credits so people know who you are. And and I'm sorry, I'm, I'm only gonna do some of the highlights that I think I'm gonna leave out. Probably the someone's I, because you had, Rob has a huge resume and you're a writer and a director, but you started andRob Cohen:Some of it is good.Michael Jamin:And for, for those of you wanna make a, a visualization. Rob also worked on one of your early jobs was The Simpsons and the character of Millhouse was Rob modeled after him. So Rob is picture Millhouse now older and sadder. So, and also Rob's Canadian. So I wanna talk about how a Canadian breaks into the business. Sure. The whole language barrier, how you learned English. Right. I wanna learn how weRob Cohen:Figured out Yeah. How the machines work so we could Yeah.Michael Jamin:I know you drove a dog sled growing up and now, now you drive a car. So stuff like that. Thank you.Rob Cohen:Thank YouMichael Jamin:Thank you. So let's begin. Rob's, I guess your first staff job, I guess was the Naked Truth, your big one?Rob Cohen:No, my very first staff job full time was the Ben Stiller show.Michael Jamin:Oh, right. Will you go back even further than that? Bend Stiller. Right. And you also did Mad tv. Hold on. Your credits are crazy good. Like you have a huge list of credits. Naked Truth work with me, I met you on, well I think I knew you before that, but just shoot me work. You work together, right? Bet, bet. Midler show. Yes. According to Jim. Mm-Hmm. , according to your credits, you are on, According to Jim. Right. the Jamie Kennedy experiment. Was that a show or an experiment? Rob?Rob Cohen:That was an experiment. That became a show on the wv.Michael Jamin:See Dots? I don't know what that is. It'sRob Cohen:A amazing, That was a pilot for nbc. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Oh, Pilot. How did you get that in there? Father of the Pride? You remember that, that animated show American Dad? I've heard of that one. Yep. Big Bang Theory. Heard of that one. Mm-Hmm. , 20 Good Years. Mm-Hmm. , our friend Marsh McCall created that show. Mm-Hmm. Emily's reasons why not. Mm-Hmm. fascinating.Rob Cohen:You're really combing through all theMichael Jamin:I'm on IMDB.Rob Cohen:Yeah, of course.Michael Jamin:There's more Life In Times of Tim, which was a riot that, that animated show Maron, which we brought you back. We hired you to be a writer and director on that. We're gonna talk about that. Yeah, sure. Lady Dynamite with our friend Pam Brady. Mm-Hmm. I don't know companies. I don't, I don't know. So I'm skipping over the, But you also have your own show called Hanging with Dr. Z. We're gonna talk about that. And then, But directing credits are also crazy. I mean, really I'm all them. Well, well you're, you're, you're good looking. Thanks. Let's go over some of them. Sure. Obviously you did a, you did a bunch of Marons. Yeah. Mystery Science Theater, 3000. You did some Lady Dynamites. Yeah. You did Blackish. Mm-Hmm. Stand Against Evil, Speechless. Bless this Mess. Superstore, you directed mm-hmm. The Goldbergs, you directed. Mm-Hmm. Interesting. told that Mo You are, And then most recently, somebody somewhere, which I, I talk about that a lot cause I love the pilot of that. And I just love that show. You directed five episodes of thatRob Cohen:Damn right. Seven,Michael Jamin:Seven. We have to update your IMDB. Yeah,Rob Cohen:Yeah.Michael Jamin:Let's start at the beginning. Cuz a lot of people ask me this and I have no answer. How does a Canadian start work in this country? Like, there are lawsRob Cohen:There are laws and I mean, I know that Americans are all about purity. So I will say that Canadians, they're almost like Americans. It's almost like we live next door to you guys,Michael Jamin:South or north of us.Rob Cohen:I, I don't know, , I don't know. But I didn't have any aspirations to get into showbiz or even come to the United States. So I didn't know that it was a, it was all a fluke. The whole thing was a fluke. I can certainly condense the journey.Michael Jamin:Let's hear it.Rob Cohen:The fast version is I was a bit of a scam as a young man and was encouraged to live on my own at a young age. And so I lived on my own and I was just a complete screw up. And I grew up in Calgary and had no future whatsoever.Michael Jamin:You were encouraged to live on your own at what age?Rob Cohen:15.Michael Jamin:Why? You were, you were a handful for your parents.Rob Cohen:I was a handful because my dad had gotten remarried and the mix was not the greatest mix. So there were two opinions on how things should work in that situation. I was of one opinion andMichael Jamin:TheRob Cohen:Back was of another.Michael Jamin:But looking back on it, do you realize, Do, are you, do you feel like you were wrong as a 15 year old? Or do you like No, I was right.Rob Cohen:You were right. I was absolutely right. Interesting. Absolutely. Right. and so I just, You,Michael Jamin:You were on your own at 15, Dude, I, I couldn't imagine.Rob Cohen:Yeah. I had an apartment. I, I mean, it's not like I suddenly got, was living on my own and figured everything out. I was still a disaster. I just had my own apartment and I was so stupid that for the first month I was like, Oh, this is awesome. My party pad. And I had all my buddies over and we were just doing stupid things. And then I got the, basically realized I had to pay rent and gas and electric. And I was like, Oh my God. Like, I actually have to pay these bills to live here. And I was delivering pizzas at night, and that was certainly,Michael Jamin:You're gonna school during the day and delivering pizza.Rob Cohen:Yeah, I delivered pizzas. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was a comp, I was a disaster. I had a 75 Dodge Dart that I would deliver pizzas in whatever the weather was and would like steal gasoline from car lots. So I could put gas in my car to deliver pizzas. I was a complete idiot.Michael Jamin:Have you tried pitching this as a show?Rob Cohen:No. it's just, it's so, it's, it's interesting in hindsight, but it's also, you know, you could call it, you know, like it's like Don portrait of a team runaway. It's like Rob portrait of a complete disaster because every choice I made was wrong. That'sMichael Jamin:Mind's a good show.Rob Cohen:. Well, maybe at some point, but I think I sold a pilot once about my parents' weird divorce and how they lived a block away from each other, but had the same address through it, some flute. But anyways, I was just drifting around for a while, just doing nothing. And sort of speeding up to your question. My cousin lived here in LA in the Valley, and I, because I was doing nothing in Calgary and had, I was not gonna college, I did not have enough credits or interest to go to university. And just got my car one day and left my apartment in Calgary and just threw a bunch of stuff in the car and drove down here to LA to visit my cousin who lived in Vaneyes. And again, like speeding through the boring stuff. I was just gonna visit for a couple days and crash on his couch.Rob Cohen:And I met this girl that he was going to school with, and we, she and I hit it off and I'm like, I'll stay another week mm-hmm. and then I'll stay another week. And then I sort of had this, if you want to use the word epiphany incorrectly realized like, I could go back to Calgary and do nothing, or I could stay here and do nothing with this girl. So I decided to like stick around for an you know, excuse me, undetermined amount of time. And then realized I'm kind of living here. But I was, I lived here illegally for many years.Michael Jamin:And you were like 17.Rob Cohen:Yeah.Michael Jamin:How old were you? And you were living here illegally?Rob Cohen:Yes. For many years. Interesting.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And, but you were working, How did you work then?Rob Cohen:I worked under the table. I got a bunch of jobs. I think the statute of limitations is over, but I worked at different restaurants and Right. The, I was a security guard at a mall. I sold shoes, I fixed yogurt machines.Michael Jamin:You know, I worked at a yogurt store. I wonder if you fixed Humphrey yogurt.Rob Cohen:You fix, did you fix them? I worked at a place called I can't believe it's Yogurt. And then they opened up a second store that said, Yes, it's yogurt . So they basically, they opened up a store that answered a question nobody was asking. No. Was asking . Yeah. And I still remember how to, you know, you unscrew those four bolts and you pull out the assembly and you take the O-rings off and you clean them and then you lu the O-rings and then you put the thing back in. But it was all the reality was because I looked and mostly sounded like an American people never asked. And this was pre nine 11 and pre all that stuff. And they just thought I was American. And no, not one person asked me for any validating id. Wow. And I, I made up a fake social security number and got hired and they, a lot of 'em just paid me cash under the table.Michael Jamin:This is perfect. Yeah. Now, and then at some point, well, but maybe I'll skip. So how did you, how did this whole Hollywood thing happen? When did you decide, how did that, when did you decide you wanted to be a, I guess, a writer? Right.Rob Cohen:Well, I never decided it. I, I, it's such a boring story and I may actually do it as a pilot, but cutting to the chase, I was delivering food for a, a deli that is no longer in business in LA Right. And had a lot of clientele that were in show business. And this one guy took a liking to me and basically said, you know, if you ever wanna get outta the exciting world of late night sandwich delivery, gimme a call. We need PAs. And I didn't know what a PA was. And he explained what it was. So I, I, this is how dope I was. I was like, Yeah, sure. So I'll, I called him up and went over to the Fox lot and he explained what a PA was Uhhuh and I thought it paid more than working at thisMichael Jamin:Deli. And he, he was a producer. What wasRob Cohen:He? Producer? for, I mean, he's still a producer, but producer of The Simpsons, Tracy Elman show. Oh, okay. This, he's an amazing guy named Richards guy who I, I literally owe everything to. And he hired me because I was nice to him when I would deliver food as a PA on the Trace Elman Show. And that was the very first time I was exposed to anything in show business whatsoever. And I was assigned to the writer's room, so I was in charge of getting them food and cleaning up. And And that's a queen. Yeah. And it was an amazing writer's room. And that was it. That was the first exposure to it.Michael Jamin:And then when did you decide you wanna start? When did you start writing?Rob Cohen:I didn't start writing. I was there for the last two seasons of the Tracy Elman Show. And then on the last season I didn't even, I still don't really know how to type. I started hunt and peck, but I would stay late at night. And they were, it was a great writer's room and they were really nice to me. And I just thought these guys seemed to be having fun. And one night they were stuck on a joke and that meant they were sticking around, which meant I had to stick around because I had to clean up after them. And I just decided like, I'm gonna write down a couple options for this joke. And sort of meekly slipped it to one of the writers, this guy Mark Flanigan, who was an incredible, and I'm like, you know, I don't mean to step on eight toes, but I just, I wanna go home.Rob Cohen:Ideas. Yeah. And that was literally, I wanna go home. And he, they used one of the jokes. And so I got to go home . And then I was like, Okay, well I'll try this again. So I, I started to very quietly with months in between side sort of pitch ideas. And then I went in at night after work and Red Scripts and sort of taught myself how a script is visually structured. Right. And then on the computer would type fake scripts just to physically format a script. And then, because it was a sketch show, I had this idea for a sketch and I just typed it up and it took like a month for me to type up a six page sketch cuz I was terrified. Right. And they ended up buying it and Wow. It was like $1,600. And I got an agent at caa, but I was still a pa at the Tracy Elman show. Right. And, and then I thought, again, showing my lack of planning for my life it was like, this writing things seems kind of fun, like maybe I'll try it. And that was, that was when I had the first inkling that perhaps that was something I may want to try to pursue. But there was no guarantee of success.Michael Jamin:And then you just continued writing specs scripts and your agents started submitting you places.Rob Cohen:I wrote a bunch of spec stuff and then by that point to Tracy Mond show was canceled and they switched. It was the same production company as The Simpsons, which was just starting. So they switched everybody over to The Simpsons. And then because everybody there was so great when The Simpsons took off, you know, it just was huge outta the gate. They had all these weird assignments that they needed help with. Like can you come up with 50 grant calls for Bart? Can you come up with a promo for this? Do the Bartman video that's gonna be on mtv. And I'm actually looking, the, my very first check sort of professional check over on the wall was for writing the intro that Bart Simpson was gonna say on MTV for the Do the Bartman video that had Michael Jackson on it. Right.Rob Cohen:So I got $300 and then just started sort of you know, writing weird things. And the, the first actual job that I got was I was recommended by one of the writers to these producers named Smith Heian. Mm-Hmm. And they were doing a 50th anniversary Bugs Bunny special for CBS. And they needed a writer that knew a lot of stuff about Bugs Bunny. So I had a meeting with them, they hired me for $2,600 to write this whole special, And that was like my first professionally produced credit of something that was, I, I was involved in from the beginning to the end. Right. But I'm still a paMichael Jamin:And none of this see, people ask me like, Well, do I have to move to Hollywood to work in Hollywood? AndRob Cohen:Like, Right.Michael Jamin:I mean, this wouldn't happen if you were not in Hollywood.Rob Cohen:Oh yeah. And it was, everybody says this, but it was absolutely a different time. And I also think that because it was the late eighties, early nineties and things were, there were way more jobs. And also because sketch shows were so popular, they needed people needed little bits. And also being around The Simpsons from the beginning, it was great like that. The Do the Bartman thing I sweated over that for a week and it was probably four sentences. Right. and I would write like top 10 lists for Letterman and try to send them in like naively thinking here's, here's 20 top 10 lists, Maybe you guys will like them. And I was just, I would stay there late at night in the office on the Fox up by myself with, you know, feral cats giving birth under the trailer just writing weird stuff and kind of figuring out the job as I was doing it.Michael Jamin:And then how did you get the Ben Stiller Jo Show?Rob Cohen:This has gotta be also boring.Michael Jamin:I think it's fascinating.Rob Cohen:Well, the way I got the Stiller show was The Simpsons had taken off and I was still working for Gracie. And I had an idea for an episode and it was season two of The Simpsons. And so I went and just wrote this episode on spec on my own. And it was basically a diehard parody cuz Diehard had come out just like a couple years before that about the power plant where Homer works getting taken over and he inadvertently becomes a hero and saves a power plant. Mm-Hmm. . So I wrote this whole spec, I turned it into Sam Simon who was running the show and was just great and he loved it. But what I was told sort of off the record is at that time, Gracie Films had a rule where they could not hire writers that were already working for the company in another capacity.Rob Cohen:It was like this weird archaic rule. So being a Ding Don I was like, Oh yeah, well screw that. I quit. So I walked over to the main bungalow and spoke to Richard Sky and I was like, You know what? I think that rule's terrible and Sam likes my script and I just think I'm gonna try this writing thing. And, and I quit. And they're like, Well, we're sorry to have you go. And then as I was walking back across the parking lot to get my stuff, Sam grabbed me and he is like, I heard you quit. And I said, Yes. And he goes, Well now you don't work here anymore, so now we can hire you, but we can't use your idea because you pitched it to us when you're an employee. And I was like, That's weird. But cutting to the chase.Rob Cohen:They took me upstairs to the writer's room and they had an index card that just says Homer invents a drink and most deals it. And so they said, We would like you, we loved your script and you've been here since the beginning. Like, we'd love you to write an episode. And I was like, Absolutely. I was freaking out. And I said, like a, an arrogant idiot. I was like, But I wanna be involved in the entire process. Cause I knew the process cuz I was working on the show. And they're like, You got it. And so we broke the whole story and it ended up being the episode flaming mosMichael Jamin:Flaming. I know you wrote Flaming Mo. Wow.Rob Cohen:So I wrote Flaming Moose, and then time went by and, and it got produced and it was on the air. And the way that I got the Stiller show was I was doing punch up on this terrible movie for Morgan Creek and met this other writer there named Jeff Khan. And Jeff and I hit it off and he's like, Hey, they're shooting this weird pilot at my apartment, you wanna go check it out? And I was like, Sure. So we went over and it was the pilot for the Ben Stiller show. Mm-Hmm. . And Ben was there and he and I hit it off and he was asking what I'd worked on and I said, this episode that had just come out for The Simpsons called Flaming Mos. And he was like, I love Flaming Moes, you wrote that. So he said, if his pilot ever became a show, he would love to hire me because we, he and I had so many similar references in our life. We love disaster movies and all this other stuff. So we really clicked. And then a couple months later, the show got picked up and he called me and said, I wanna hire you. And that was my first staff job.Michael Jamin:Wow. What itRob Cohen:Entail? What it entail. IMichael Jamin:Not it is, No, I think it's so cool. I I've known you all these years. I didn't even know that dude.Rob Cohen:And then it's all flukes. It's all flukes,Michael Jamin:It's all Yeah. But it's also you putting yourself out there and I don't know. That's amazing.Rob Cohen:Yeah. I mean, I'm very fortunate these flukes happened because, ButMichael Jamin:You also Yeah. I hadn't but you put yourself in a position to have these flu happen too. Yeah. AndRob Cohen:You were put if I hadn't, but I was prepared. But if I hadn't met Jeff that day and we hadn't gone to his apartment, I would not have met Ben and that wouldn't have led to the show. Right. WhichMichael Jamin:Led. But you're also, I mean, honestly, and I mean this in a compliment, like you're one of the be better connected, more most connected writers. I know, you know, a lot of people like, you know, you're friend, you're a friendly guy, you, you know, a lot of people I guess maybe cuz you leave your houseRob Cohen:No, but you're, you're connected, you know, a lot of people, it's just,Michael Jamin:It's just I know, but I'm always, I'm always surprised by who you like you seem to know more people .Rob Cohen:Yeah. But it's only because I just think I hate this term, but I think the alt comedy scene was starting when you and I were starting off in LA Yeah. And because, especially because of the Stiller show, that whole crew were so important. Like Janine and David Cross and all those guys were so important to the alt comedy scene. And then that's where Jack Black and Tenacious D started and all these other people Will Ferrell. Like they were all coming up that way. I just think it was timing of an, an era that was happening. So wereMichael Jamin:Just, Were you involved in that? Like did you do like, what do you mean? Did you go to those shows and stuff? Like IRob Cohen:Oh yeah. The Diamond Club. Yeah. I mean it was, that was the whole scene. Like big intel books, the Diamond Club. IMichael Jamin:Didn't even know about it back then.Rob Cohen:Really? Oh my God. Yeah. That was where everybody hung out. Like I even performed in some of those dopey shows just because it was, it was a group of friends that were not famous yet that we're just doing these weird shows at this place, The Diamond Club in Hollywood, which is gone mm-hmm. . And you could tell it was like, you know, Jack and Kyle, you knew they were amazing, but they were not tenacious to you yet. Right. And, and Will was not Will Fiery yet. He was a guy from you, the Groundlings and people were just, you know, Janine and David and Pat Oswald and all these guys that were justMichael Jamin:Right. So let's talk about those guys. So they were, you know, these are people putting themselves out there. It's not like Absolutely. They're not saying, Hey, I put me in my movie. They're just putting themselves out there. They're doing shows. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just how you do it. And so is they're not asking to start at the top, they're starting at the bottom.Rob Cohen:Yeah. Well I think that's a great point. And I think using the, the Diamond Club shows, The Diamond Club was this horrible, horrible dumpy club. A club is a loose term that was owned by one of the the Stray Cat was it Stray Cats?Michael Jamin:Yeah, I know the band. TheRob Cohen:Band The Stray Cats. Yeah. It was like Slim Jim Phantom, I think was the guy who owned the club. Okay. So it was this horrible, decrepit theater that was near LaBrea and Hollywood and it was kind of a you can do anything you want kind of place because it was just soaked in like old piss smell and booze. But the good thing was a lot of friends of ours, like this friend CJ Arabia, started to put these shows together. And so she would ask everybody in our little group that all hung out and travel together and dated each other and whatever. It's like, hey, we can do these shows at the Diamond Club. And I'm not a performer, but it would be like, we would build entire sets out of corrugated cardboard and paint them because the Diamond Club didn't care. They just wanted to sell alcohol to people that came to the shows . So there would be like, you know, shows where you look now at the lineup, you're like, Holy crap, that's the, that's like a lineup of insane comedy hitters. Right. But at the time they were not, they were just young weirdos.Michael Jamin:It's so, because you know, I moved here in 92, I lived right in West Hollywood. I lived right on the corner and I'm just, it's amazed how like we just didn't know each other then, you know? Yeah,Rob Cohen:Yeah. But you and I actually in Seavert sort of weirdly intersected with the Wonder years unbeknownst to us.Michael Jamin:I well sever wrote on that. I didn't he sold number years.Rob Cohen:No, but you guys, and you're credited on my episode.Michael Jamin:I'm no, I I didn't work in the Wonder Years. Si sold ans sold an episode of Freelance episode of Wonder Years, my partner becauseRob Cohen:Yeah. But it's so weird because on screen, it's you two and me credited on the episode. I pitched to Bob Brush. He tried to ripMichael Jamin:Up. Not me, dude. I don't have any credits on Wonder Years. You gotta, I Oh,Rob Cohen:You know, Seavert and his old partner?Michael Jamin:Yeah, his old partner. Yeah. Yes.Rob Cohen:Sorry. It was Sivert and his previous partner.Michael Jamin:I'm surprised he got credit though. Okay.Rob Cohen:Wow. Wow. The whole thing was Bob Brush was just stealing ideas left and right. But wow. That's interesting. But that's SivertMichael Jamin:And I But you never wanted to I'm well, I'm sorry I cut you off. GoRob Cohen:Ahead. No, no. I was gonna say, I didn't know you were Seavert yet. Right. But on that episode, Seavert and I share credit even though at the time we were complete strangers. And then I really met him when I met you on just shootMichael Jamin:Me. Right, Right. Now, did you, you never wanted to perform, I mean, it's funny cause you have performed but you never wanted to.Rob Cohen:I have performed reluctantly. I hate it. And it was like, whether the Diamond Club show or if I've been like an emergency fill in at the Growlings, it's, before I do it, I'm like, Hey, this is cool. It's gonna like sharpen my brain and it's gonna be a great thing. Just jump off the cliff and try. And then in the middle of it I'm soaked in sweat and hate myself. And then at the end I, I am so relieved it's over and I absolutely loathe it. I wait,Michael Jamin:I'm just shoot me. I remember we had you play the dirty bus. The dirty bus Boy was your character. Dirty Dirty bus, and you hit it outta the park.Rob Cohen:. Well, all I had to do is sort of wiggle my eyes. Lasciviously while it was clear the older waitress and I were messing around.Michael Jamin:Oh my God.Rob Cohen:Cause Andy called me in and said, Can you, He's done that so many times where it's like when he had True Jackson, he's like we need somebody to be the hobo king. Can you be a paramount an hour? I'm like, .Michael Jamin:Okay.Rob Cohen:But it's not. Cuz I love it. I, I hate it, but it's also, it sounds so goofy that if I don't have any lines or something that I'm fine doing it. But I ended up on so many shows I worked on as a writer, being an emergency go to that.Michael Jamin:IRob Cohen:Truly, I truly hate it. IMichael Jamin:Truly hate it. As mentioned, Rob was talking about Andy Gordon, who's a writer we worked with a number of times. Yeah. A great guy and hilarious writer, butRob Cohen:Hilarious and so funny. Like just as a personMichael Jamin:It really witty, really making laugh. Yeah. And you just had dinner with him. Yeah. It's so fa Okay, so then you were okay. Then we worked together and just shoot, We, for many years, we, we used to sit next to each other. Yeah. Sometimes at least. Yeah. And then, and then what happened was years, I remember years later we were doing a pilot. We were helping out a pilot. I don't remember whose Do you, do you remember? We were, I remember I pilot, I don't know, might have been, might have been a CBS Ratford pilot, but, but what happened? So people don't know. So when someone makes a pilot, it's very, at least back in the day, it was very common for the person who created the show to call in their friends as a favor. Hey, can you guys help, you know, sit a couple days and help me, You know? Right. Pitch on jokes or do the rewrite or whatever. And as it's courtesy, you always say yes. I mean, you just never, never say no. And CauseRob Cohen:You also hope, if it's a success, you'll get a job.Michael Jamin:Yeah. But sometimes you have a job so you don't even care. But Sure. But, but absolutely. You always say yes. And I remember being there on the state floor, and I hadn't seen you in a while, and I was like, Rob, what are you up to? And then you said, I was like, so I was thinking you were gonna, you know, you had written on a bunch of shows, but you were like, Yeah, I'm kind of done. I'm done writing, I wanna directRob Cohen:Mm-Hmm.Michael Jamin:. And so what happened there? What was the, what made you wanna stop writing and start directing?Rob Cohen:I feel like I, I'm gonna continue to take long, boring stories and compress them, but the, the quickest answer is I'm so appreciative of the, the fluke that come into writing. And I, I was a writer on TV shows for 18 years. Right. And I, I greatly appreciate the opportunity that it provided in all areas. But what was happening would be I would be on a show and they would need somebody to go supervise, like a shoot on, like at, you know, the Radford lot. There was that fake New York Park. So they would need somebody to go film a scene that's supposedly Central Park. Right. Also, if they were doing any exterior shoots, I would volunteer to do that. And there's people we know that are writers that hate being around actors and they just wanna stay in the room. . And I was, I was realizing I wanted to get out of the room mm-hmm.Rob Cohen: and go where the action was. And then I would direct some, some friends of mine would do low budget music videos and I would do it for free. And then I was kind of building this weird little real sort of unknowingly. And then other friends of mine that part of those Diamond Club crowds that were now becoming well known comedy performers were doing movies. And they would ask me if I would help write the promos, you know, the commercials for the movies. And foolishly or otherwise, I would be like, Yeah, if you, if you arrange for me to direct these promos, I'll definitely, I'll write it and I'll do it for free. And they're like, Okay. So because they had muscled with the studio, they would be like, Rob's the guy and he's also gonna direct it in the studio's. Like whatever you say.Rob Cohen:Right. So I realized that I was really enjoying it. I'm not saying I'm good at it, but I was really enjoying it. And then building this sort of very weird real. And then when the writer strike happened 2007, 2008 I was walking the picket line and kind of had this feeling in my head, like, if I go back into the room, I'm going to stay on the path of being a TV writer probably for many, many, many years. And this is an opportunity. I was pretty honest with myself. It's like, what I really, really want to do is be directing, like, to make the stuff instead of write the stuff. Right. So, so I decided on the picket line that I would kind of hop off the writing train and just try to keep cobbling together these weird little directing jobs. AndMichael Jamin:That's,Rob Cohen:That was when I made the term.Michael Jamin:But I remember being on the floor with you on this stage and say, I remember this conversation really well. I was like, Wow, you're gonna be a director. And I said, like, So is your, because you know, Rob's a big shot writer. I said, So is your agent helping you out with this?Rob Cohen:Right.Michael Jamin:And what was your answer?Rob Cohen:Not at all. They wouldn't not at allMichael Jamin:Discuss it. And why not didn't discussRob Cohen:It because I was making money for the agency as a writer, and they did not want to go through building me up as a director because they were and it wasn't evil, It was just, those were the facts.Michael Jamin:That's exactly right. And that's, it's not, it's because that's a hard sell. They're not gonna push that rock up the hill. They already have directors and Rob's a no one is, he's said, no one is a director. Correct. And so you, you were literally starting your career over, and the way you did it was by working for free, you know, by just doing it and not asking for permission. You just did it. You know, figure out what you can do. And I say this all the time on my podcast, on my social media, like, and I use this, I use as an example, you know, you did it. And then I, so we were at one point we were running Maron, and that's, and I use you as another example of how to get work there. So I don't remember who contacted who, but we were, Maron was our low budget show, really super low budget show. And I guess, and how did, how did we get, I don't remember. I don't remember details, but we came in contact again.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin, if you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You could unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlistRob Cohen:In what I think it was, I emailed you guys to congratulate you on the show and we just started a dialogue. And then you guys very generously asked what I was doing. And I think that's how we loosely started this conversation.Rob Cohen:Right. But it was you Sivert, Mark, who I'd known a bit in the past. And then was it Erco or was it yeah,Michael Jamin:Probably Pi Cerco.Rob Cohen:Yeah. I can't remember. I mean, you guys went way out of your way to let me have a meeting.Michael Jamin:But what's what I, IRob Cohen:Remember is in Glendale.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And what I remember about that meeting was how prepared you were. You came, we met with a lot of directors and we needed directors who were cheap, can do low budget. Who, And you, you had, you were all that I could do low budget cuz you do low budget, you do no budget. Right, Right. And you came in super prepared, and I've talked about this before as well. I, I think on my podcast, we on social media is like, you blew us away. So what you did, as I remember, you watched the presentation, which is already shot, and then you, you blocked it. You, you, you drew diagrams and you said, this is where I would've, this is how I would've shot the presentation. This is where I would've put the cameras. And see, by doing it this way, you have less setups and you don't have to move the cameras much.Michael Jamin:And because you do, because you're being efficient with your setups, you can make your day, you can get all the shots that you need because I'm not getting a ton of coverage. I'm just getting exactly what I need and I'm getting it fast. And the fact that you took all that time to draw those drawings, you, you know, you proved to us, and I remember you walked out and we were like, He's hot. You know, he's the guy, he knows how to do it. Mm-Hmm. , you know, you blew us away. So it wasn't like we did you a favor, you came in, you were prepared. You know,Rob Cohen:We, Yeah. But I really, I mean, again, I remember that meeting so clearly because I was, I, I, I loved you guys. I thought the presentation was awesome and the show had all this great promise, but I loved the vibe of what the show could be and really, really wanted that job for those reasons and to work with you guys again. But also because I knew there was a way, and it was my old writer sort of producer brain thinking like, there's limited time, there's limited money. How can you maximize the writing and the, the humor opportunities, but your production schedule is so crazy tight. How can mathematically you do both things? And that's, I remember leaving that meeting and just like, I, I didn't know what else I could've said, but it was really my experience as a writer and a producer, just like, this is how I would make this more efficient. Not that you guys were inefficient, but it was just how my brain had worked from the writing side.Michael Jamin:And that's, and I, and that's what we appreciated most about you as a director, is that you came from a writer, you were a writer, you understood the writing, you understood how to be true to the script, how to service the script. And I gotta say, it was always very easy working with you was never, you had never had any ego attached. You were like, Hey, is this, how do you like this? Oh, you don't like that? Maybe you like this. It was always, you know, course pleasing the client basically. ButRob Cohen:You guys were not only were you my friends, but you guys were the bosses along with Mark and I I would say just, it's not even from a Canadian standpoint. It's like you are hired to visually capture the script that has been written mm-hmm. . So if somebody's coming in thinking like, here's how I'm gonna put my stamp on it, or this is gonna be for my real, it's a mistake because Right. What I, what I love doing, and you guys were great show runners, was if you got Guy, if there was an idea I had, I would happily run it by you because it made it easier if you liked it. And if you said, Well, we actually thought about it this way when we wrote it, it's like, that's cool. My job is to visually capture it. Yeah. And, and also it's like this scene's running over, so here's a, here's an idea how we can pick up that time.Rob Cohen:Right. Or Mark has an idea. So it's like, okay, let's honor what Mark is saying and Right. That's to me, it's your number one goal is to take the blueprint and build a house. And it was so easy because you guys, we all knew each other, but we all came from a writing background. Yeah. And it was, it was like, well, you know, this B story's never gonna pay off this way, so what if we just save some time and just make this like a joke instead of a B story or whatever was going on. ButMichael Jamin:I remember right. I was always relieved when you, when you were directing, I was like, Oh, this is gonna be a good fun week. It's gonna be easy. It's gonna be yeah, we'll get what we need.Rob Cohen:Oh, I loved it.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Rob Cohen:I love that show.Michael Jamin:Yeah. That was, we had a blast. But it was, yeah, it was low budget. And then, so what do you say to, because it's so many people, you know, they do ask me like, Well, how do I, how do I become a director? Mm-Hmm. . And so how would you tell people, young people just starting out, I would do what you just did, but go, let's hear what you would say. No,Rob Cohen:I, I would say you know, again, to sound like an old man, times have changed mm-hmm. . and I would say that the number one thing is to show somebody that you have directed something and that can be directing it on your phone or making a short film. There's so many ways to do it inexpensively now with technology. There's no excuse. Right. My second answer would be it's to show the people that have written the show or have the script that you can not only be trusted to run the set and get all the scenes and get some options e editorially, but that you also aren't literally just filming the script that you are gonna mind some more humor. Right. Or you have a style that's appropriate and that's established in the first part that I said, which is make your own real.Rob Cohen:You know, like there's a music video I did the total budget out the door before, way before that was $2,000. Like everything. Right. And we were able to, you know, we had three minutes and 25 seconds or whatever it was to do it, but we were able to get some funny stuff within the video and it was for Virgin Records. And the one letter I got back from was like, We love this video because there's so much funny stuff in it. It wasn't about the song, but it's finding a way to sort of add, without putting the spotlight in yourself because the spotlight should be on the script.Michael Jamin:But once you have your reel, like okay, how do you, who do you show it toRob Cohen:You? If I was doing it today? I think you show it to I mean YouTube is a great example of somewhere that for free, you can exhibit your wares mm-hmm. , I would say the going, showing it to an agent is a, is an older route that I think is gonna be more frustrating because you can now start a website of yourself and send it around to people with a click. I think, you know, the great thing about short films is there's so many festivals and a lot of 'em are online that even if you make a three minute short film for a, a very inexpensive amount of money, you could literally have people around the world see it after you're done editing it. And so that's what I would do today is write something, because if you write it, it gives you extra juice.Rob Cohen:Mm-Hmm. . And then you're also not paying a writer. Right. And you, and then the way that you saw it as a writer, writers basically direct stuff in their head when they're writing mm-hmm. . So then take the initiative to film what you saw in your head originally and put down on paper. And then there's so many people that would do favors. Your friend might be an editor and he needs something for his reel. So you make a deal. It's like, if you edit this for me we'll have a finished product, then both of us have something. So I, I would say it's, it's, it's it's hustle, but it's not like that lame thing of you gotta hustle. I think it's an iPhone will make something so beautiful. And with an iPhone and a tripod, your costs are gonna be your phone and a $10 tripod.Michael Jamin:And I, I say the, I Go ahead. Continue. Right.Rob Cohen:Well, no, I just think there's no excuse to not make stuff. Yeah. But you want to, you, you want to use the internet you want to use film festivals that a lot of 'em have free submissions and start a website you're on webpage and people will find it like they, somebody's gonna see it. And as long as you keep adding to it on a fairly regular basis, it's the same as when you and I were starting, you would have to send out a packet and to meet writers for staffing meetings, they would want to either read your spec half hour or your writing packet. So this is the same thing, it's just your directing packet.Michael Jamin:Right, Right. I say this all the time, I think people think I'm nuts, but Yeah. It's just like, stop asking for permission and just do it. Yep.Rob Cohen:Absolutely.Michael Jamin:A Hundred percent. And stop and stop thinking about starting at the top. How do I sell my, how do I direct for Twentieth Century Fox? No. How do I direct for my neighbor? Yeah, That's, that's the question. Yeah.Rob Cohen:But that's what I loved about those music videos. Not to keep referencing 'em, but you're, the, the greatest thing is when the artist said yes, because I was like, Oh, this is great. I'm gonna have a music video in my real, And then you realize like that $2,000 pays for catering, pays for editing, pays for a dp, pays for lighting, pays for location, and you very quickly realize you have no money. But the challenge of that is so great and has so much value, these little jobs that people can take because when you do show it to somebody, they go, You made that whole thing for $2,000. That's ex or damn, or you made this short film for a hundred dollars and you could, I you could, if you have a Mac and an iPhone, you can make a film.Michael Jamin:I said, so funny you say, cuz I said the same exact things. Like the less money you spend, the more impressive it is because you're saying aRob Cohen:Hundred percent,Michael Jamin:You know, and, and by the way, no one's gonna be impressed by the Dolly shot or the special effects you put in because you're not gonna, you know, the Marvel movies are gonna do that a thousand times better than you can ever dream of doing it. Yeah. So it always comes down to the script and Yeah. And, and how little you can spend. That's the impressive part.Rob Cohen:Yeah. And I will say, not to over compliment you, but whenever I have meetings for directing jobs that every, the shows that they bring up almost every time that they're really curious about are Marin mm-hmm. standing against Eva, which is another Iffc show. And somebody Somewhere, which is the Bridget Everett show, which is an incredible group of people that do that, but on a fairly low budget. Yeah. And nobody wants to talk about how you pulled off some amazing big budget production because they know you had a big budget, but if you can show them that you can work lean and mean and you were involved from the ground up it has so much cred with everybody that to this day, like it happened the other day, people were talking about Marin, they did not believe what that schedule was like. Yeah. And when I explained it to 'em, their minds are blown. Yep. They, they can't believe it's possible. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Right. Yeah. FastRob Cohen:And it is possible.Michael Jamin:Yeah. It was like two or two and a half days for a shoot,Rob Cohen:Which is two and a half days for an episode.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And ordinarily, it's like five. Right. Or how do you, have you ever directed an episode that was more than five days?Rob Cohen:I've done one that's six. Okay. but you know, me, the thing that I would say in these meetings is like basically a, a regular work week, you will have completed two episodes where most shows are barely getting one for a way bigger budget. Yeah. But the great thing about the Iffc model was they don't give you notes, they stay outta your way. They're supportive and they appreciate that you're delivering a television show for peanuts. But then everybody benefits because they've agreed to embark on a journey where everybody has skin in the game. And that, that I think also will help people get writing or directing jobs.Michael Jamin:I see. I, I think sever and I, we prefer, you know, we take whatever work we get, but we prefer working low budget for that reason. They leave you alone and you can actually be more creative. But how do you feel when you're like, I would imagine directing a high budget piece would be more stressful and, and and terrifying.Rob Cohen:It is, but because there's more writing on it. But I would say the larger budget stuff that I've directed, and it's not like major movies or anything like that. The, the pace of things is a lot slower mm-hmm. because people have more time and more money. And to me, I love going fast and lean and mean because you still have the amount of money, but why not get five takes at a scene instead of two takes. Right. And, and so if you have more money, it doesn't mean you get lazy, you keep your foot on the gas, but you just get more options. Right. And so I think learning anything, writing or directing anything from the ground up with no resources will make you be more creative and more efficient. And people, when they're hiring you, certainly for directing, appreciate how efficient you are. Because you're basically saying, Give me the keys to the bank and I will take care of your money and you'll have five choices instead of two choices. Right. And that's what it comes down to.Michael Jamin:You say choices, do you mean coverage or do you meanRob Cohen:Coverage?Michael Jamin:CoverageRob Cohen:Takes coverage? You know, Maron, we would rehearse it as we blocked it. You know, like it was, it's not like we had these long, lazy rehearsals. It was like, Okay guys, we have three hours in the living room. Let's,Michael Jamin:Do you have more rehearsals, more rehearsal times on your other shows? Yeah. We had no rehearsal time.Rob Cohen:Yeah, sometimes, but I also think that's built into the larger budget. So if it's a network, single-camera show, people can walk away to their trailers and you call him back when you're ready and then lighting director gets everything perfect. And again, like with Joe Kessler, who is our awesome DP on Marin mm-hmm. , that guy works so well just like running gun, Running gun. Yep. And there's ways to make stuff look great. And also Mark, who's not a trained actor, was delivering some really heavy stuff mm-hmm. and people are finding it as they go. Because I think that team mentality, if you're writing or directing, everybody's on board. They, they've signed up understanding what the job is and once people chip in it's gonna make it a better experience in every area.Michael Jamin:Now you, I'm changing gears here, but you also do a lot of like this Dr. Show. Like you do a lot of, like, you do commercial work, but you also do like bizarre passion projects on the side. Mm-Hmm. , Right? So talk about like that. Like what, what's, what'sRob Cohen:WellMichael Jamin:Hanging with Dr.Rob Cohen:Yeah. It was during the Pandemic and Dana Gold, Pete Aaronson and I are friends and we just, everybody was stuck inside and a lot of work had gone away because of the pandemic. And we just started talking and kind of came up on the fly of the show and realized we could make our own YouTube channel and if we put the money together ourselves, then we're the studio. So nobody's gonna stop us because we're paying for it. Right. So Dana does this incredible Dr. Zs impression and we were like, what if Dr. Zs hosted the Mike Douglas show? But he was sort of like a cheesy Sammy Davis Jr guy, and we would call in favors with friends of ours who would be real guests, shoot them remotely and make 10 episodes. Right. And it was truly a fun project during Covid. And we ended up, you know however you could describe having a small but interested following making season one of Hanging with Dr. Z. And we used the internet and Instagram and, and all that stuff, which led to us having a really successful Kickstarter campaign for season two. And the budget, I wouldn't even use the word shoestring, I would say it was like a photocopy of a shoestring, but I love doing weird, silly stuff. And a lot of it it improvised and it just tapped into all of our favorite ways to do stuff. Right. But it was working with friends, you know, during a pandemic.Michael Jamin:Right, Right. People have friends and you do project with your friends, right?Rob Cohen:Yeah. And we ne we, we have not made one penny on that show. We, we have lost money on it, but willingly because it going, what I said earlier, we could guarantee it would exist because we were creating it and paying for it. So there's nothing stopping us. Why not? Like why not do it?Michael Jamin:People often say to me like, you know, they want, or they want me to read this, they want me to make their career. And it's like, you don't need me to make your career. You need three funny friends. There are three friends with a similar vision. Yeah. Do something with them. And that's exactly how you, that's how you started. That's how I started. Yeah. And so that's why I say stop asking for stop begging for permission to just start, you know, doing it. Just do it.Rob Cohen:The thing that, like using hanging with Dr. Z as an example, and only because it's something that I was involved in that came out of some friends of ours who were politically active when the elections were happening, the 2020 elections mm-hmm. . And there was a group that had reached out to my friend Colin to make a campaign to stop Mitch McConnell. And so they asked Dana and I like, Could you guys help us out? And there's zero money involved, but are you guys interested? So Dana and I just started to shoot the breeze and we thought, let's just shoot Dr. Zs basically talking about why Mitch McConnell should be stopped. We shot it in his backyard and his girlfriend at the time played Nova and he played Dr. Zs and we did it in front of a, a green screen sheet and we knew we were gonna put the Statue of Liberty from Planet Apes behind them and shot a political ad in two hours.Rob Cohen:Right. And then we had so much fun with that and the, this little weird ad kind of did well enough within the small circle of people that love Dr. Z's political ads, that that's what led us to talking about the talk show. But again, it was just homemade. And my point is, I think whether people call it a passion project or whatever they wanna call it, if they have an idea and they write it or they direct it, or they do both, you immediately eliminate people saying, You can't do it because you did it. But more importantly, the people that could give you other opportunities respect the fact that you did it and didn't wait around for somebody to give you an opportunity. Right. Cause you will get the opportunities by creating your own opportunities.Michael Jamin:And that's, that's one thing I always admire about you, is you're, you're very entrepreneurial that way. And it's like, Yeah. You follow your heart.Rob Cohen:Yeah. But I'm also convinced, like as flukey as my career started, I'm convinced that it's gonna end. Every job will be my, my last. So I'm trying to keep more plate spinning Uhhuh. But I also love, you know, like whether it's, you know, somebody somewhere is such an amazing experience because of Bridget and Hannah and Paul who created, and Carolyn Strauss and hbo. And it is the nicest group of people and the most enjoyable environment where you can, every single person on that show in rural Illinois is there because they want to be there. Mm-Hmm. . And that energy drives that show where people watching it on TV can feel that vibe. Right. And, and whatever people think of that show, it's like summer camp where every year you get together and people are so excited to take very little money to be part of this experience.Rob Cohen:Right. And that the same thing can happen with person X deciding they want to make a short film or they wanna make fake commercials or whatever, because they're gonna set the tone and they're gonna create the vibe. So I think it's a mistake if somebody's like, I only wanna do cool stuff, or, you know, nobody's gonna let me do my ideas. It's like, Yeah, you're not letting yourself do your ideas. So when you told me you were starting your course, I'm like, the biggest obstacle to somebody making anything these days is the person who's bitching about it.Michael Jamin:Yeah. That was me. Yeah.Rob Cohen:No, but, but it's all doable. Can you guarantee success? No. But you will gain amazing respect and opportunities by having it be tangible instead of complaining about it.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah.Rob Cohen:And that's just a fact.Michael Jamin:That's just a fact. Well, where do you see, where do you, because the industry has changed so much since we started, What? I don't know. What's, what's your prognosis for the future? What do you see? People ask me this, like, I don't know.Rob Cohen:I think, what doesMichael Jamin:The present look like?Rob Cohen:Well, I don't know, but I think it's quite obvious that streamers of the future and broadcast networks are not the future. Mm-Hmm. . So you and I were lucky enough to start in sort of part of the glory days of the nineties when mm-hmm. , you know, you had multiple staffing meetings, you know, you would just, it would be that sort of dating circuit for a few weeks where you would bump into people going in and out of offices. And you started off like having four offers. And then it would be two offers, and then it would be one offer. And then it goes from you hoping you do get an offer, or hoping you get a meeting and you could see the tide is turned. So to me, the future is definitely streaming and smaller budget, shorter orders mm-hmm. . And if somebody is expecting it to go back to people paying you a lot of money to do 22 episodes of a TV show a year, I think that is very foolish. Yeah. In my opinion, because it'll never go back to that.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah.Rob Cohen:But it shouldn't go back to that.Michael Jamin:Well, it is what it is. But, but no,Rob Cohen:But there's no more musty tv. Like Right.Michael Jamin:YouRob Cohen:Know, look at the Emmys. Like, it's the, the show with the biggest amount of TV stars on it that just aired, had the lowest ratings ever. And it's not because of one person, it's because they've lost their viewership. Right. It's, they, they're not gonna get it back. People aren't gonna wake up one day and go, Gosh, I can't wait to watch this award show on broadcast. Like, those days are over.Michael Jamin:Right. And so it's always about, it's about hustling, it's about getting work, looking for the next job. Mm-Hmm. about doing your own stuff. Right. Yeah. And, and at the end of day it's gotta be, it's also has to be good. Whatever you're working on, like, you know, has to be great. Right. Well, IRob Cohen:Mean, look, I've done more than my share of crap and largely in my own hand. And I think that an opportunity is an opportunity. You know, there's a lot of credits I don't have in my IMDB page because the show was either a deeply unpleasant experience, or it's such a crappy show. You would spend so much time explaining it to people that they would fall asleep. And so the reason that I've called those credits is because it's, I'm grateful for the experience, but it was a stepping stone to what, what I wanted to do. And if I hadn't taken crappy show X, it wouldn't have led to a more positive thing. And, and I think like what you're doing is encouraging people to pursue an idea that they really believe in and learn the basics of how to write it and shoot it. Mm-Hmm. and just that small amount of initiative, even if you never show your project to anybody, you've made it, It's, it's an immense amount of satisfaction. Mm-Hmm.Michael Jamin:. That's right. Incredible. Exactly right. And I, I said that as well. And if you didn't enjoy it, then this Hollywood thing is not for you. Cuz if you're not enjoying it for free, you're not gonna enjoy it when someone's banging, you just, you, you're just gonna get money for it. That's it. Yeah.Rob Cohen:And there's people that do that, and they make a fortune. But it's also, you know, like, not to keep talking about when you and I started, but mm-hmm. just shoot movie was in the nineties, and if you said NBC in the nineties had so many comedies, some were good and some were terrible. But now if you look at nbc, are they doing any comedies? Like maybe two?Michael Jamin:Yeah, maybe. Yeah.Rob Cohen:Yeah. So, so it's the same place, but it's the, the tide is clear. So for somebody to aspire to working on wacky old timey NBC comedies, it's very foolish. However, if they are a self starter and, and determine what their roadmap is, nobody will stop them. You can't guarantee success, but at least you've tried it and you might be successful trying it and pursue what you like.Michael Jamin:See Rob Cohen is Rob Cohen. Everyone is, is there something where, is there something, What, what, Is there something people can do to follow? What do you, what what do you wanna, Can we plug something about what you're doing? Can we No, no. Can,Rob Cohen:No, I mean, I'm not on social media. I, I'm I just, I I'm genuinely appreciative of the projects that invite me to be a small part of it. And those happen, you know, here and there. And there's nothing to really follow. But I, I just think I'm excited to see this on your, your podcast. You've built a great following.Michael Jamin:I'll say this, when I need a pick me up, when I need a little encouragement, I call you mm-hmm. to kick me in the ass. Right. So I, you're just a great dude, and I appreciate you so much and for coming on and for sharing, but you thought was what was boring, but it was not boring at all. I, I learned some things about you.Rob Cohen:Yeah. I was a disaster as a young man, and now I'm an older disaster.Michael Jamin:, that's soRob Cohen:What you're, what you're doing, I know you're wrapping it up, but IMichael Jamin:Well, that's okay. I I don't wanna take more of your time, but go ahead. No, you'reRob Cohen:Not. That's, you're not, I'm, you've got as, as long as you want. I, I really think that if somebody wants to be a writer or director or producer or an editor, then do it. Like, again, you don't have to show it to anybody, but if somebody writes something really great, you can show it to people and someone will recognize that you have talent, but nobody's gonna be able to know anything about what you want to do if you haven't, if you can't manifest it. Right. So you know, again, like when you guys gave me that opportunity on Marin, unbeknownst to me, it, it was a huge help in me getting my next directing job because it, it legitimized me as a director, and then the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. But if I hadn't had that opportunity, it would be a struggle until there was another opportunity. Right.Michael Jamin:So you wanna It would happen eventually.Rob Cohen:Yeah. But you wanna be prepared for those opportunities. Right, right. So I just think that's just common sense. But what you're doing now, like if I told you you're gonna be doing this five years ago, you would, you would laugh.Michael Jamin:I would've said absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Wisdom, Rob. Hustle. Hustle muscle. That's it. I can't thank you enough for coming on, coming on the show time, man. Thank you for being my first guest. I, I didn't, I'm surprised I let you talk so much. I thought maybe I'd be doing all the talkingRob Cohen:. No, I'm surprised I talk so muchMichael Jamin:. I'm surprised. I'll let you get a word edgewise. Yeah. I dog a lot. Dude, thank you so much again. AndRob Cohen:Anytime. I love it.Michael Jamin:Don't go anywhere. We're gonna, we're gonna have a post more to wrap up after this, but Sure, sure. Thank you, everyone, for listening. And until next time,Phil Hudson:This has been an episode of Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin. If you'd like to support this podcast, please consider subscribing, leaving your review and sharing this podcast with someone who needs

For an ep all about cocktails, rock music, and comedy writing, we welcome back comedy performer/writer/musician/podcaster Tim Kalpakis from the band/podcast The Sloppy Boys! As we dig into the battle between Sam Simon and Matt Groening behind the scenes, we learn that the fight over the Flaming Homer/Moe has more to it than we thought. Plus, free pickled eggs for Aerosmith in this week's Hugh Jass podcast! Support this podcast and get dozens of bonus episodes by visiting Patreon.com/TalkingSimpsons and becoming a patron! And please follow the new official Twitter, @TalkSimpsonsPod!

Sam Simon and Natsutsa Mabwa have always been people who love to help other people. After they met working as social workers here in Chicago, they realized they both were very interested in work that would help other people. An opportunity with Servicemaster became the perfect chance to help others who were dealing with difficult times, and now, as business owners, they continue to help others, especially through the pandemic. They wrote their book, Restore, to help others protect their greatest assets and to be your go-to guide for fire and water damage restoration. Sam and Natsutsa are literally helping others stay prepared and pick up the pieces so that they can thrive again! Visit bridgingchicago.com to learn more!

Special Guest: Dan Hill: Author, Speaker and Podcast Host Founder and President, Sensory Logic, Inc. Dan's company has done consulting work for over 50% of the world's largest B2C companies and he's the author of nine books, including Emotionomics, which features a foreword by Sam Simon, co-creator of The Simpsons. Dan has spoken at conferences in over 35 countries, and has been on both ABC's “Good Morning, America” and NBC's “The Today Show” in addition to receiving a front-page profile in The New York Times. Dan will be joining us to discuss the intimate relationship between sparking employees' emotional engagement on the job and how that outcome ensures greater motivation, productivity and retention of staff. Specific tips and tactics will be offered for how to guard trust, which is rightly called “the emotion of business” while avoiding its opposite: contempt. Join us as we discuss how to ensure greater motivation, productivity and staff retention. Listen Live (Archive Available) Host: Jo Dodds

Nasutsa Mabwa, President at Restoration By Simons Nasutsa Mabwa is President of Restoration By Simons, a MBE/WBE certified firm with the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois. Nasutsa brings an extensive background of commercial real estate development to Restoration By Simons. She is focused upon building the commercial and residential side of property […]

Nasutsa Mabwa, President at Restoration By Simons Nasutsa Mabwa is President of Restoration By Simons, a MBE/WBE certified firm with the City of Chicago and the State of Illinois. Nasutsa brings an extensive background of commercial real estate development to Restoration By Simons. She is focused upon building the commercial and residential side of property […] The post Nasutsa Mabwa And Sam Simon With Restoration By Simons appeared first on Business RadioX ®.

Beer is good. This we know. But beer can also DO good. Act 63 is evidence of that, as Sam Jones & Simon Sheckells are involved in two KC beer events where the proceeds go to organizations that donate to charities. Sam is the curator of the all things KC beer website, Kansas City Beer. She, along with Simon, also run the bike-, walk-, run- and scooter-friendly beer fest — Pint Path. We learn about Sam & Simon's entry into craft beer and why they love the craft community. And as if Sam didn't have enough on her plate, she's bringing back the COVID-delayed home brew beer festival, Spring Fling. Spring Fling was the brain child of Rodney Beagle, the late head brewer of 3Halves Brewing who passed away suddenly in 2021. One of the home brew awards is named after Beagle and part of the proceeds from Spring Fling will go to his kids, also known as the Beagle Pups... and man, was there lots of beer on this show! Drinkers: Heart Breaker Pomegranate Cider, Cinder Block Brewing ; Thrice Rice, Green Bench Brewing; Hop Juice, Left Coast Brewing; Gimme, Docent Brewing; Pseudonym, Diametric Brewing; Luther Stein, Martin Luther Lutheran Church of Lee's Summit, MO Mystery beers: Black is Beautiful French Toast Stout, Core Brewing; Black is Beautiful Special Edition Scarlet Letter, Core Brewing

Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC interviews Dan Hill answering the following questions about the importance of having facial expressions that truly reveals your thoughts. Which of the 7 emotions revealed through facial coding are the dominant ones? Which emotions are most likely to predict failure vs. success? From your work evaluating world leaders how do you identify a tendency to be either autocratic or inclusive? What emotional pattern suggests a bully or a dictator? What emotional combinations evoke attention, allow you to be memorable, and attract followers? How do you define contempt and what does it tell us about a person? Dan Hill Dan Hill, PhD, is the author of nine books, including Emotionomics, which was an Advertising Age top 10 must-read selection and features a foreword by Sam Simon, co-creator of The Simpsons. In 1998, Dan founded Sensory Logic, Inc. whose clients represent over 50% of the world's top 100 advertisers. Dan pioneered the use of facial coding in business to capture and quantify consumer responses and has 7 U.S. patents for scoring methods for the tool The Economist has dubbed central to the “emerging facial-industrial complex.” Besides having spoken to audiences in over 25 countries, Dan has had media appearances ranging from ABC's Good Morning, America to NBC's The Today Show, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ESPN, and the Tennis Channel. Dan was also a regular guest on PBS's Mental Engineering show, hailed by Bill Moyers as “the most interesting weekly half hour of social commentary and criticism on television.” In print, Dan has received front-page coverage in The New York Times for his work in pro and NCAA Division 1 sports and was a non-partisan columnist for Reuters during the 2016 presidential race. Nowadays he hosts the podcast Dan Hill's EQ Spotlight, which appears on the New Books Network (NBN), the world's largest book review platform with well over 1 million downloads monthly. Dan was educated at St. Olaf College, Oxford University, Brown University, and Rutgers University. Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast If you have enjoyed this episode, subscribe to iTunes. We would love a review on iTunes or other platform. The EEC podcasts are sponsored by MKB Excellent Executive Coaching that helps you get from where you are to where you want to be with customized leadership and coaching development programs. MKB Excellent Executive Coaching offers leadership development programs to generate action, learning, and change that is aligned with your authentic self and values. Transform your dreams into reality and invest in yourself by scheduling a discovery session with Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC to reach your goals. Your host is Dr. Katrina Burrus, MCC, founder and general manager of www.mkbconseil.ch a company specialized in leadership development and executive coaching.

"Checking In" is a show on the Milenomics Podcast Network where I usually chat with members of the community about some specific trip, loyalty program, or method they've been using to generate points & miles. Today's show is a little different because my guest is Milenomics founder Sam Simon. And since it's a Disneyland trip report and totally "above board" we're releasing it here on the No Annual Fee feed. I once read a post on a forum somewhere questioning whether, in times when our country and the world can seem so divided, is there anyhting we can all agree on? The first answer that popped up was Disney. Which quickly and definitively led to follow-on posts where it became clear that Disney [as a travel destination] is just as devisive a topic as anything else we might discuss. Sam lives in Southern California about 20 minutes from Disneyland. He's been there in the past, has some familiarity with the attractions, and casually keeps up with the latest developments in the Disney fan base. With two young kids, their family is somewhat interested in visiting the park but they are by no means Disney enthusiasts. So this trip report is a story about what it's like for a casual guest to engage with a travel and entertainment destination with a built-in community of fanatics that see Disneyland as their park. A place where familiarity with operating procedures, desirable dining options, and experience with their own group's preferences are all leveraged to maximize the experience. The trip report is in two parts, before and after. We discuss... Lodging Even when living close to the parks it can pay to book a nearby hotel for naps and relaxation. The Disney hotels are famously overpriced, and in Anaheim third party hotels are very close to the park. For a one-day park visit, does it make sense to book a hotel the night before, or after? What about early check-in/late check-out availability? Sam found a unique option in The Westin Anaheim Resort just south of the park that happens to be an Amex Fine Hotels & Resorts property. We discuss the pros and cons of the property. Lines With young children especially lines are consistently one of the most annoying parts of any theme park experience. We discuss how Genie+ worked in terms of suggestions and wait time reduction. Dining We've heard reports of long wait times for mobile ordering, supply chain issues, and labor shortages. Dining is a big part of most Disney trips, and planning ahead is generally recommended. But with only a day to plan, are any of the better options be available? Related Listening Checking In w/Robin from Luxe Recess on New England Resorts, Blackberry Farm, Luxury Disney and OrlandoSeeptember 2021 Disney World Trip Report w/Joe Cheung These free episodes are just a sample of what's discuss more fully with a paid subscription: Hundreds of hours of additional content discussing creative ways to earn and redeem points & milesAccess to a vibrant Slack communityIn-person meetups Thanks for listening, and thanks for your support.

"The Simpsons" is probably the most famous American television series in history. It's the cultural landmark equivalent to STAR WARS, Mark Twain's "Tom Sawyer," and Michael Jackson's "Thriller."  It's had 33 seasons. Only news shows, NFL programming, soap operas and "The Tonight Show" have been on longer.   The show was developed by the legendary Matt Groening along with Oscar-winning filmmaker James L. Brooks and the multi-talented Sam Simon (who passed away in 2015 and his contributions to the world are sorely missed).  Along the way they hired many fantastic writers, producers and showrunners including Conan O'Brien, John Swartzwelder, Jon Vitti, Al Jean, etal.    Somewhere along the way they received a script called "Marge Gets a Job" from up and coming writers Josh Weinstein and Bill Oakley. They were hired as permanent writers and would be producers and showrunners for the seventh and eighth seasons and continue on for a total of six seasons.  Weinstein would win three Emmys for his efforts.    Weinstein and Oakley would go on to develop the problematic "Mission Hill" and be consulting producers on hit show "Futurama" and producers on "The Mullets." They went their separate ways and Weinstein went back to "Futurama," winning another Emmy. He went on to create and write for the shows "Strange Hill High" and "Disenchantment."   The Buzzards are excited to welcome Josh Weinstein to the fold as he deep dives on his illustrious career, all things "Simpsons," Sonic Youth, and whatever pops into his fervent, hilarious and deliciously wicked mind.    So, grab a six pack of Duff, have a donut and tune into another great episode of FIVE DOLLAR BUZZ.   Please subscribe to us on our YouTube Channel and hit like on our audio only versions on Spotify and iTunes. If you have any questions, comments, ideas for guests or episodes, please reach out to us at FIVEDOLLARBUZZ@gmail.com.  We'll get back to you as soon as we stop Homer from bringing about Apocalypse Now with another nuclear meltdown accident in Springfield..."D'oh!"  

Adam welcomes Jennifer Tilly to the podcast at the top of Part 2, and the guys talk about their shared experience on ‘Politically Incorrect' back in 1999. Jennifer also discusses her appearances on Johnny Carson, her relationship with ex-husband and Simpson's co-creator Sam Simon, and the beautiful women on Charlie's Angels. Later, Jennifer recalls her early days of trying to break into Hollywood, and the guys talk about shame, veganism, and working with The Wachowski Siblings. In the last part of the show, Gina reads news story about John Cleese, Paul Rudd, Pete Davidson, Emily Ratajkowski, and a brothel's attempts at administering vaccines. Please support today's sponsors: HyundaiUSA.com Lifelock.com enter ADAM TRICOCatsAndDogs.com BlockTraffik.Org Geico.com

Mert Rich joined me to talk about his Emmys; growing up in Detroit; Soupy Sales; Bill Kennedy; Milton Berle; Jackie Gleason; Carl Reiner; being in one of the last Bob Newhart Shows and meeting Mary Tyler Moore at the wrap-up party; Wayne State; going into advertising; joining Second City; doing industrial films with Steven Kampmann; 1/2 Hour Comedy Hour; side jobs; auditioned for Taxi; doing a Quincy; joining SCTV Network 90; being a Juul Haalamayer Dancer; Jake LaMotta's Raging Bull BBQ; Dr. Tongue's 3D House of Beef; meeting partner Brian Pollack at the Hollywood Square - Match Game Hour; writing a parody of Footlose; writing a What's Happening Now! and a Love Boat; working with Al Jean & Mike Reiss; working on Hulk Hogan's Rock n Wrestling; learning how to use a computer on Sledge Hammer!; Jackie Cooper; episode "Dori Day Afternoon"; creating the character of Cliff's girl friend Margaret O'Keefe on Cheers; episode "What's Up, Doc?"; hanging out with Woody Harrelson; Roger Rees; writing the episode that earned Kirstie Alley an Emmy; You've Lost that Loving Feeling; Bill Medley; Roc; firing Jamie Foxx from pilot; difficulties of Roc Live!; Kurt Rambis; episode "The Stan Who Came to Dinner"; writing a pilot for John Ratzenberger; working on the George Carlin Show; Sam Simon; Brian Doyle-Murray; Sister, Sister; Sherman Helmsley; Secret Dairy of Desmond Pfeiffer; Boat Trip; The Simpsons; Sir Roger Moore; Cheers finale; On the Verge of a Wig - Out; Kirstie Alley; COVID 19; --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Welcome back to the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #163 with Dr. Dan Hill, Ph.D. an internationally recognized expert on the role of emotions in politics, business, sports and pop culture, who has spoken to audiences in over 25 countries. There are two currencies in life, he says, “There's dollars and emotions.” For over 20 years now, Dan has specialized in the latter – often in terms of business applications, and often by analyzing facial expressions because he asserts “the most valuable 25 square inches of visual territory on earth runs from the eyebrows to the mouth.” There, people best reveal and communicate the affective responses that so often drive their behavior, whether in the marketplace, the workplace, their personal lives, or in realms like politics, and sports. Watch the interview on YouTube here.https://youtu.be/fT_SNrZM6rA Learn more about Dr. Dan Hill https://www.sensorylogic.com/  See past Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast Episodes https://www.achieveit360.com/episodes/   Back story 0-6:10 Interview with Dan Hill 6:10-1:10:25 In Today's Episode, you will learn: ✔︎ How to use facial coding to improve your results in your personal and professional life. ✔︎ Examples of how Dr. Hill used this skill in professional sports and in the classroom. ✔︎ The origins of facial coding beginning with Leonardo da Vinci, Darwin, Duchenne and Dr. Ekman. ✔︎ How Dr. Hill discovered this tool and how he has used it to build a successful career. ✔︎ Theory of Mind and Facial Coding--what emotion he stays away from. ✔︎ Our future leaders--What emotions will make them successful. If you want to be more successful in life, happier in your marriage, be an expert at handling your kids, a better manager at work, a more effective coach in sports, a better hiring manager, close more sales, or negotiate a better deal for yourself, an understanding of how to read someone else's facial expressions is imperative. To capture and quantify emotions, Dan pioneered the use of facial coding (the analysis of facial expressions) in market research starting in 1998 and his company, Sensory Logic, Inc[i]., has done work for over half of the world's top 100 consumer oriented, B2C companies. Dan has received seven U.S. patents related to facial coding and is also a certified Facial Action Coding System (FACS) practitioner[ii], which is a popular course, offered by someone I have studied in depth, Paul Ekman[iii] who's a well-known psychologist and co-discoverer of micro expressions. Dr. Ekman was named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by TIME Magazine[iv] in 2009, has worked with many government agencies, domestic and abroad and has compiled over 50 years of his research to create comprehensive training tools to read the hidden emotions of those around you and believes we can all improve our ability to do this, with training[v] and Dan Hill has this training. IMAGE SOURCE: The New York Times November 18, 2014 https://nyti.ms/3nCE7co   I'm Andrea Samadi, author, and educator from Toronto, Canada, now in Arizona, and like many of our listeners, have been fascinated with learning and understanding the science behind high performance strategies that we can use to improve our own productivity in our schools, our sports, and workplace environments. My vision is to bring the experts to you, share their books, resources, and ideas to help you to implement their proven strategies, whether you are a teacher working in the classroom or online, a student, or parent working in the corporate space. Our guest for this week's podcast, Dan Hill, whose latest books consist of Famous Faces Decoded: A Guidebook for Reading Others;[vi] Two Cheers for Democracy: How Emotions Drive Leadership Style[vii]; and First Blush: People's Intuitive Reactions to Famous Art[viii] will help us to take a deep dive into understanding why we need to be able to read the emotions in others. His earlier, business books include: About Face: The Secrets of Emotionally Effective Advertising[ix]; and Emotionomics: Leveraging Emotions for Business Success, which features a foreword by Sam Simon, co-creator of The Simpsons. He has a NEW book that was just released on AMAZON yesterday, Blah, Blah, Blah: A Snarky Guide to Office Lingo[x] that is a humorous take on how the workplace really operates and the fact that there's a little truth in every joke. Dan Hill is also the host of the EQ Spotlight Podcast[xi] where he has discussions with thought leaders about the importance of emotions in politics, culture and life. ​In 2014, Dan received front-page coverage in The New York Times for his work with professional and NCAA Division 1 sports teams. Other media coverage has ranged from TV appearances on ABC's “Good Morning America,” Bloomberg TV, CNBC, CNN, C-Span, ESPN, Fox, “The Today Show,” PBS, and so many others that I will link in the show notes. The Tennis Channel, to print and digital coverage in Allure, China Forbes, Cosmopolitan, Fast Company, The Financial Times, The Los Angeles Times,  Politico, Time, USA Today, and The Wall Street Journal. Dan was educated at St. Olaf College, Oxford University, Brown University, and Rutgers University. Along with his wife, Karen Bernthal, he nowadays splits his time between St. Paul, Minnesota and Palm Desert, California. I am very grateful for the fact that this podcast allows me to learn from some of the top leaders in the world on improving productivity and results. Sometimes, while preparing for interviews, I step back and just notice how lucky I am to be able to speak directly with these world leaders, that I have the chance to learn from them, and share their knowledge with you. As I am researching, and meeting new people, you had better believe I'm also applying what I'm learning to my own life. This way, it's like we are learning together. I will never take this learning opportunity for granted. I met Dan Hill, through Twitter, where he reached out to me, sharing his work and as I read his BIO I knew immediately that had to have him on the podcast to share his work with facing coding to help us to all understand how to read the emotions of others in our schools, sports environments and workplaces. This is a valuable skill that Dr. Paul Ekman believes we can all develop to help us to deal with what's important in our life, without having to take the time to “think” about it. With practice, we should all be able to use this skill to just “know” the best way to proceed.   Let's meet Dan Hill and learn more about facial coding—what is it, and how can we use it in our own lives! Welcome Dan Hill, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. I have many questions for you but have to say that when we first met on Twitter, I recognized immediately that we needed to speak and it was a mix between the fact that I have been studying Dr. Eckman's work on understanding emotions, and the fact that you have been applying this for the past 20 years, successfully in many different sectors. I'm beyond excited to learn more from you on this topic. INTRO QUESTION: In your BIO, it mentions your front-page coverage in the New York Times for your work with professional and NCAA Division 1 sports teams and I had to look it up. I found the article “What Expressions Can Say About a Player”[xii] (Dec. 25, 2014) and Team's Turn to a Face Reader Looking for That Winning Smile (Dec. 25, 2014)[xiii] and wonder how did you use this skill to analyze sports players to profile a successful vs problem or non-coachable player? I know there are entire courses on this subject, but what should we all know about this skill, and how we can use it to improve how we interact, teach or coach others? IMAGE SOURCE: The New York Times December 25, 2014 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/26/sports/NBA-faces-data.html   I first heard about this idea of facing coding or reading emotions through facial expressions through Dr. Ekman's work, and then through Dr. John Medina where he mentioned Theory of Mind in our interview. What are the origins of facial coding (Da Vinci, Darwin, Duchenne, Ekman) How did you discover this tool? Would you say you have a particular aptitude for facial coding? How hard is it for people to learn this skill? I know that intuition must play a role here, but how accurate is this process? I first mentioned Theory of Mind (where we can analyze and infer other people's behaviors) on this podcast on episode #46[xiv]. Is facial coding like Theory of Mind? For educators in the classroom, can you suggest a couple of tips for helping them to understand their students better? (as you've taught college and also given many speeches)? What final thoughts do you think would be important for us all to take away with using facial coding in our schools, sports and workplaces? Thank you very much Dan for your time, research, and strategies for us to all use and implement to become better at recognizing emotions in others, as well as ourselves. I know that American psychologist Dr. Paul Ekman would agree with you that this is a skill that we should all understand so that we can deal with what's important in our life, quickly, with confidence, with this new understanding. For people who want to learn more about you, is the best place your website? What is your new book that you have coming out this week? Thank you Dan!! FOLLOW DR. DAN HILL https://emotionswizard.com/ https://twitter.com/EmotionsWizard https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-hill-emotionswizard/ FOLLOW ANDREA SAMADI:  YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/AndreaSamadi   Website https://www.achieveit360.com/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samadi/  Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Achieveit360com   Neuroscience Meets SEL Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/2975814899101697   Twitter: https://twitter.com/andreasamadi   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreasamadi/  RESOURCES: Famous Faces Decoded Book Synopsis https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2271229932979186 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wiggins Bucks, Young and Rebuilding, Look to Jabari Parker to Lead the Way Back Nov. 18, 2014 by Ben Strauss  https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/sports/basketball/bucks-young-and-rebuilding-look-to-jabari-parker-to-lead-the-way-back.html?.?mc=aud_dev&ad-keywords=auddevgate&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkIGKBhCxARIsAINMioIUDGbdwkIAhb0IkjA2e2h35wD1swCkBjWjZlUScglN6Hmt3iipwiMaAln_EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Dr. Paul Ekman's FACS Training https://www.paulekman.com/facial-action-coding-system/ Paul Ekman Image Reference https://www.pinterest.com/pin/455074737331481340/ and Research https://www.ekmaninternational.com/a-brief-history-into-paul-ekmans-early-research/ Early Origins of Facial Coding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchenne_de_Boulogne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin https://www.paulekman.com/about/paul-ekman/   Mona Lisa's Smile is Not Genuine June 3, 2019 by St. George's University of London https://neurosciencenews.com/mona-lisa-smile-14150/ The Science of Genuine Smiles December 6th, 2017 by Alina Lukashevsky https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-science-behind-smiles_b_9448650 The Duchenne Smile https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Duchenne-smile-left-versus-the-social-smile-right-Social-smiles-use-only-the_fig4_337322714 https://www.gottman.com/about/research/couples/ REFERENCES: [i] https://www.sensorylogic.com/ [ii] https://www.paulekman.com/facial-action-coding-system/ [iii] https://www.paulekman.com/amp/ [iv] http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1894410,00.html [v] Paul Ekman: useful Things to Know About Emotions Published on YouTube Feb. 23, 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdUZQmZfMzY [vi]Famous Faces Decoded by Dan Hill  https://www.sensorylogic.com/famous-faces [vii] Two Cheers for Democracy: How Emotions Drive Leadership Style by Dan Hill June 18, 2019 https://www.amazon.com/Two-Cheers-Democracy-Emotions-Leadership/dp/0999741624 [viii] First Blush: People's Intuitive Reactions to Famous Art by Dan Hill October 1, 2019 https://www.amazon.com/First-Blush-Peoples-Intuitive-Reactions/dp/0999741632/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=first+blush&qid=1631455388&s=books&sr=1-1 [ix] About Face: The Secrets of Emotionally Effective Advertising by Dan Hill October 1, 2010 https://www.amazon.com/About-Face-Emotionally-Effective-Advertising/dp/0749457570/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=about+face+dan+hill&qid=1631455553&s=books&sr=1-3 [x] Blah, Blah, Blah: A Snarky Guide to Office Lingo by Dan Hill and Howard Moskowitz September 2021 https://www.amazon.com/Blah-Snarky-Guide-Office-Lingo-ebook/dp/B09BWPQGGJ [xi] Dan Hill's EQ Spotlight Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dan-hills-eq-spotlight/id1519669707 [xii] The New York Times “What Expressions Can Say About a Player” December 25, 2014 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/26/sports/NBA-faces-data.html [xiii] Teams Turn to a Face Reader, Looking for That Winning Smile by Kevin Randall Dec. 25, 2014 https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/26/sports/nba-bucks-looking-for-an-edge-hire-expert-in-face-time.html [xiv] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE #46 “As Close to Mind Reading as Brain Science Gets: Developing and Using Theory of Mind in Your Daily Life” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/as-close-to-mind-reading-as-brain-science-gets-developing-and-using-theory-of-mind-in-your-daily-life/

Zuzana Golianová sa rozhodla jedny Fenomény venovať Simpsonovcom, najúspešnejšiemu animovanému seriálu, ktorý sa vysiela kontinuálne už viac ako 30 rokov, má viac ako 30 sérií a vyše 600 častí. Stoja za ním: Matt Groening a Sam Simon. Homer, Marge, Bart, Lisa a Maggie – to je tých päť mien svojráznej americkej rodiny zo Springfieldu. Rodiny, ktorá nestarne, každý jej člen má svoj charakter, odstup, ktorý dovoľuje byť presný – napríklad aj v glosovaní – a nech sa deje, čo sa deje, táto rodina zostáva spolu. Na Simpsonovcoch vyrástli celé generácie divákov/diváčok a zdá sa, že ideme s nimi ďalej. Autorka sa o tomto fenoméne rozprávala s teoretikom popkultúry Jurajom Malíčkom.

Spencer goes through a golden age of Mountain Dew flavors, we take a light hearted deep dive into religion, and Jeff shares fond memories of working with Sam Simon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

País Estados Unidos Dirección Matt Groening (Creador), Sam Simon (Creador), James L. Brooks (Creador), Mark Kirkland, Steven Dean Moore, Jim Reardon, Bob Anderson, David Silverman, ver 29 más Guion Matt Groening, James L. Brooks, Sam Simon, John Swartzwelder Música Alf Clausen, Richard Gibbs, Arthur B. Rubinstein, Chris Ledesma. Tema: Danny Elfman Sinopsis Ep. 16 .- La ciudad se convierte en un hervidero cuando Cheech & Chong (interpretándose a ellos mismos) anuncian que Springfield será una de las paradas de su esperadísima gira de reunión. Pero cuando Cheech y Chong suben al escenario frente a sus leales admiradores, Ep. 17.- Los Simpson pasan el día en un estadio y en medio de un partido comienzan a poner música para que todos los espectadores bailaran, Homer al ver que Bart era el único que no lo hacía empieza a hacerle cosquillas pensando que se le quitaría lo amargado, pero lo único que consigue es que se moje los pantalones delante de todas las personas.

TRANSCRIPT HERE Here we are in the Simpsons universe! For our first part of episode 12, special guest Nathan Phillips and Steph look at the two episodes Moaning Lisa (Season 1 episode 6) and Fear of Flying (Season 6 episode 11), the history of the early Simpsons, and how accurate we believe their depictions of mental illness and therapy are, with a bit of our own experience thrown in. Nathan is a walking Simpsons encyclopedia living in North Carolina and Steph was banned from the Simpsons as a kid and has suffered as a result. Follow Nathan at @startstowearmedown on Instagram or twitter https://twitter.com/dustybooks , read more of his thoughts on music, movies and life at dusty-books.com , and get his newsletter at https://letterboxd.com/dustybooks/ CONTENT WARNING: Panic attacks and anxiety symptoms, phobia of flying, discussion of plane crashes, depression, coercive control, mental illness stigma, suicide, misogyny/toxic masculinity/shit husbandry, homophobia/transphobia NOTE: This podcast is not designed to be therapeutic, prescriptive or constitute a formal diagnosis for any listener, nor the characters discussed. The host is not representative of all psychologists and opinions stated are her own personal opinion, based on her own learnings and training (and minimal lived experience). Host and co-hosts do not have the final say and can only comment based on their own perspectives, so please let us know if you dispute any of these opinions – we are keen for feedback! Host: Stephanie Fornasier Cohost: Nathan Phillips Editor: Nicholas Fornasier Music and artwork: Michael Watson Follow Psychocinematic on Instagram!: psychocinematicpodcast and Twitter!: twitter.com/psychocinematic or join our facebook group (search for Psychocinematic Podcast) or email us at psychocinematicpodcast@gmail.com! Check out our special music episode by becoming a Patron!: www.patreon.com/psychocinematic   REFERENCES!: They Shoot Lambeths Don't They?: How 'Moaning Lisa' Tackled Depression and it's Outcomes  The Andrew Blog: How 'Moaning Lisa' Learns to Make Something Out of Sadness  "The Simpsons: An Uncensored, Unauthorized History" by John Ortved  Talking Simpsons Interview with Mimi Pond  Neil Tesser's interview with Matt Groening in Playboy, 1990  Matt Groening Interview with The Advocate  The gay lifestyle magazine featuring Smithers (GENRE, not Out, apologies!), published March 1996.  Academy of Television Art and Science's five hour interview with James L. Brooks (not Museum of Television and Radio as cited in show sorry!)  Marc Maron's interview with Sam Simon  1995 interview with David Mirkin  Recent and rare extensive interview with legendary original simpsons write John Schwartzwelder  Longtime supervising director David Silverman's Twitter (https://twitter.com/tubatron) is an excellent source of information and he is very forthcoming with answering general production questions. DSM classifications for Specific Phobia  DSM 3- TR Major Depressive Disorder  Audio commentaries, scripts and deleted scenes on the commercial DVD sets of Season 1 and Season 6.

Special guest Sam Simon joins us for another episode where we talk about her experiences as a bisexual person, and about the harmfulness of bisexual erasure. R and Bri also share their frustrations with a biphobic research paper that was published in a major scientific journal this summer. Sam Simon, MA.Ed., LCMHCA, NCC is a bisexual identifying clinical mental health counselor, and Ph.D. student studying counselor wellness with a history of working in outpatient, hospital, agency, and college counseling settings. You can access a transcript of this episode here: https://www.queerscience.show/podcasts/3/dear-science-bisexual-men-exist. Follow us on: Twitter: queer_science Instagram: queer_sci Facebook: Queer Science Anchor: https://anchor.fm/queerscience Support us on: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/queerscience GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/queer-science-podcast Things mentioned in this episode: PNAS Study: https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/07/14/2003631117 Gaby Dunn: https://www.instagram.com/gabyroad/?hl=en Kinsey Scale Outdated: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/kinseys-scale-is-so-1948_b_2362996 Dr. J. Michael Bailey's History of Transphobia: https://www.transgendermap.com/politics/psychology/j-michael-bailey/ Dr. Bailey's Previous Studies on Bisexuality; New York Times coverage of them: https://whatsnew2day.com/scientist-admits-that-bisexuality-exists-in-u-turn-of-2005-study/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/queerscience/support

In this episode, R and Bri talk about mental health and psychology with special guest Sam Simon. Our discussion topics include Freud, the DSM, and a group of Swedes who called in gay to work. Sam Simon, MA.Ed., LCMHCA, NCC is a bisexual identifying clinical mental health counselor, and Ph.D. student studying counselor wellness with a history of working in outpatient, hospital, agency, and college counseling settings. A transcript of this episode can be found here: https://www.queerscience.show/podcasts/2/calling-in-gay-to-work Follow us on: Twitter: queer_science Instagram: queer_sci Facebook: Queer Science Anchor: https://anchor.fm/queerscience Support us on: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/queerscience GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/queer-science-podcast Things mentioned in this episode: Freud and homosexuality: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychoanalysis-unplugged/202005/was-freud-gay-friendly Swedes who called in gay to work: https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/63529/time-swedes-called-gay-work Removing gender dysphoria from the DSM: https://www.thetaskforce.org/invalidating-transgender-identities-progress-and-trouble-in-the-dsm-5/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/queerscience/support

The post I Doubt It #106 – “NYPD Wikipedia Edits, Fox News #1, Baby Flag Controversy, Creflo Dollar NEEDS $60M, Measles Bet Gone Wrong, Bride Wants Math, Sam Simon Hates Animals Testing, Distrust of Science is Everyone's Problem, and Takin' Care of Biz.” appeared first on I Doubt It Podcast.