Podcasts about terror twilight

MMT50 - 208: The Pavement Top 50 CountdownIn this episode of Meeting Malkmus: A Pavement Podcast, jD Dew is joined by Pavement superfan Patrice from Richmond as they dive into song #8 on the countdown. Together, they unpack the nostalgia, indie rock essence, and lyrical introspection that makes Pavement such a beloved bandk. From origin stories to unforgettable live performances, this episode is a heartfelt exploration of Pavement's legacy.Episode Highlights: • Pavement's Indie Rock Impact – Discussing Stephen Malkmus's songwriting style and the band's journey from Slanted and Enchanted to Terror Twilight. • Fan Origin Stories – Patrice shares her Pavement journey, from her early days with Last.FM to traveling internationally for Pavement shows. • Live Show Memories – Reliving standout moments from Pavement's 2022 tour, including the Central Park and Iceland residencies. • Pavement Cover Bands and Indie Scene Insights – A deep dive into the 90s revival through cover bands, concert costs, and more.About the Pavement Top 50 Countdown:Each week, jD counts down the essential Pavement tracks as chosen by fans. Don't miss the final reveal of the Top 50 songs and insider stories about Stephen Malkmus and the band's journey through the indie rock scene. Episodes drop every week, leading up to the top track chosen by listeners.Connect with Us: • Email: jd.meetingmalkmus@gmail.com • Website: dewvre.com/meetingmalkmus • Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/meetingmalkmus • Socials: @meetingmalkmus on all platformsThanks for tuning in to Meeting Malkmus. Subscribe to stay on the journey as we continue the countdown of Pavement's most memorable tracks!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

MMT50 - RT2In this episode of Meeting Malkmus, JD hosts a roundtable discussion with Pavement superfans as they break down the Pavement Top 50 countdown. From their live experiences to deep dives into SM's lyrical genius, join the conversation on Pavement‘s top songs and memories from the band's iconic albums like Wowie Zowie, Crooked Rain Crooked Rain, and Terror Twilight.Time Stamps & Highlights: • [0:15] JD introduces the roundtable, where the group will discuss Pavement's Top 50 countdown from songs 50 through 11. • [0:29] Jimmy shares his excitement about scoring tickets to Pavement Live in New York and what he expects from the show. • [4:03] Highlight: Jimmy talks about his excitement for “Give It a Day” making the list, describing it as one of his favorites in the 30s. • [4:44] Chris celebrates Blue Hawaiian making the top 50, despite its unusual sound compared to other Pavement songs. • [7:00] Boston Russ discusses his love for “Motion Suggests” and his memorable experience seeing Pavement play it live. • [8:08] JD and the group reflect on the Watery Domestic EP and how songs like Greenlander would have been even better if extended into a 10-inch record. • [10:28] Discussion: The group digs into the appeal of Pavement's lesser-known tracks like Texas Never Whispers and Linden Lions. • [12:46] Chris critiques Box Elder and Easily Fooled for being too simplistic compared to Pavement's more evolved songs. • [13:07] Highlight: The group discusses Half a Canyon and how it fared on other Pavement podcasts. • [14:29] Nostalgia: The group reminisces about seeing Pavement live and how their songs evolved during their 2022 tour. • [18:33] Boston Russ shares a story about hearing The Hex in Iceland, creating a magical fan moment. • [25:15] Chris reflects on discovering Pavement in 2004 and wonders how fan age demographics affect the Pavement Top 50 list. • [27:42] Discussion: The evolution of Pavement from their early lo-fi tracks like Slay Tracks to their more produced albums like Terror Twilight. • [32:24] The group speculates which Pavement songs will make the top 10. • [35:16] The impact of Crooked Rain Crooked Rain and tracks like Range Life and Gold Soundz in Pavement's legacy. • [39:04] Boston Russ gives a shoutout to his friend Sasha, who finally heard AT&T live after multiple attempts. • [45:25] Final roundtable: Everyone guesses what they think will be the number one Pavement song in the Top 50 Countdown.Key Takeaways: • Fans of Pavement are deeply passionate about their favorite songs, and discussions like these reveal how eclectic the band's music truly is. • The band's diverse sound across albums like Wowie Zowie, Slanted and Enchanted, and Crooked Rain Crooked Rain has created lasting memories for fans.Connect with Us: • Twitter & Instagram: @meetingmalkmus • Facebook: Meeting Malkmus Facebook Group • Website: Meeting Malkmus on DewvreJoin the conversation, share your favorite Pavement memories, and stay tuned for the next episode of Meeting Malkmus!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week on the pod, jD sits down with Ross to discuss his Pavement origin story and reveal track 15. Transit: Track 2:[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. Coming in at number 16, it's Fill More Jive. It's the third song from Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, behind Stop Breathing at 28 and Cut Your Hair at 21. So this song actually beats Cut Your Hair, which is, I don't know, is that surprising? Is that surprising to you? You no i'd rather pick bill more jive over over cut your hair but i mean cut your hair is the pop song so yeah yeah that's why i was surprised it wouldn't be in the top five or something i was you know just looking at the spotify uh the spotify plays you know uh-huh cut your hair is like way up there and bill more jive is not right right so is is it do you consider it like a deep cut like when you guys went to it on the most recent tour was it um was it a deeper cut in the bag of songs that you brought yeah i say a deeper cut because i don't think we we did it in 2010, okay and we hadn't done it for years in the 90s like i think we did it in 94 and maybe they did it with Gary too before me.Track 2:[1:23] So I would say it's a deep cut live, but in terms of, you know, records, you know, for people to really enjoy, it's a pretty great number.Track 3:[1:46] Hey, it's Shady here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for sentimental indie rock band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and an abacus for dummies book. How will your favorite song fare in the rankings? Well, you'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by Pavement superfan, Ross from Fife. How the fuck are you doing, Ross from Fife? I'm good. Good from Fife.Track 3:[2:24] Excellent. This is good news. It's always nice to talk pavement with somebody, especially when they're doing well. Well, I don't get enough chances here to talk about anything pavement, so. Well, we're going to do that right now. Let's hear your pavement origin story. Story um well the very first time i heard pavement and this only came back to me in the last couple of weeks uh as i was thinking about you know this interview um and either it was either late 99 or early 2000s my high school girlfriend put major leagues on a mixtape you remember when you used to make mixtapes for you know for sure for your crush or your significant other at the time or whatever yeah she she made me a mixtape with uh major leaks and i i liked it it didn't set me off on my journey or anything you know but that's that's the first time i'm definitely aware of having heard Pavement. Right. A couple of years later, one of my friends.Track 3:[3:38] It was right about the time of, like, Eminem was huge. Dr. Dre had just released 2001. Yeah. Snoop Dogg was big. One of my friends flipped almost overnight from being an indie rock fan to a hip-hop fan. Oh, wild. So, yeah, I guess he was giving away his old CDs that he didn't listen to anymore or whatever. And he gave me Terror Twilight. It was a... I can't remember if he thought, right, Ross would like this or if he was just getting rid of it, you know? Yeah. But it really took me by surprise. I really liked it.Track 3:[4:27] At the time I was technically homeless. I wasn't living on the streets or whatever. I was crashing on people's couches. I was going through the sort of system like halfway houses and whatever. So I didn't have much possessions. but one of the one things I did have was Terror Twilight, and I would listen to it all the time while playing my Nintendo Game Boy or whatever and, it kind of felt like a it felt like a secret you know like my secret, because I'd never met another single living soul who had heard of Not just the album, but the band. I remember round about, it would have been the back end of 2001.Track 3:[5:28] Just pre-9-11, which seems weird, but that's the way that I remember this particular. I was on a lunch break at my first job, and I read a review of the first Malcolm A Soul album.Track 3:[5:49] And the review spent more time talking about Pavement than it did, you know, his new band, basically stating that, you know, these guys are legends, just they didn't get their due or whatever. No, I agree with that. So, yeah, a year later or whatever, I've got Terra Twilight, I love it. These guys are such enigmas to me you know this is before I was on the internet I couldn't Wikipedia them, I couldn't you know, there was no YouTube, stuff like that and by the way all this is, well some of this is on your 17th or 18th episode Krelvid User, you read out my letter oh gosh I had totally forgotten about that I remember I have a terrible memory you asked for submissions because back then a lot of the songs were quite short or even non-existent so yeah I got day drunk one day.Track 3:[7:10] I'd been out with colleagues and I thought I'm going to write JD a letter and tell him how I yeah so.Track 3:[7:20] My next the next part of the story is, I knew about the re-releases I think at some point, I don't know why I bought Sebado 3, the re-release of that album and, the album on the front it had a sticker with some sort of blurb from a music journalist saying that, This album, along with Pavement, created the blueprint for American indie. Jesus, high praise. Again, that just put it in my head. And I didn't even like Sebado Free that much. I quite like the band altogether, but I don't think it's a great album. So round about that time we're still talking about 2002 3, 4 maybe I don't have a great memory either, I go to Glasgow to watch a British band Rubin, I don't think they're around.Track 3:[8:30] Anymore but their first couple of albums were pretty good we go to King Tut's Wawa Hut, which is quite a famous venue because it's where uh oasis got signed by creation really yeah oh cool um it's a tiny place you can only fit you know two three hundred people in it maybe even then that might be a fire hazard uh but even before before the gigs played and the the venue's underground, it's like in a basement, before the gig me and a couple of friends are upstairs and I'm going through the jukebox, they've got one of these sort of.Track 3:[9:20] They're old fashioned now, but at the time they were quite modern, the jukeboxes where the album covers flip over in front of you, you know? Yeah. And I find a pavement, Slandered and Enchanted, and it's like, oh, that's that band, that's Territorial, you know, I keep hearing about them. So I stick five songs on, don't even hear them because, you know, the bar's so crowded, so noisy. But still it sticks in my head I want to learn more you know so a short time after that, I'm shopping locally in the nearest sort of large town.Track 3:[10:09] And I go into MVC it's a I don't know if it was an offshoot of HMV. I don't know if you've got any of this in Canada or not. You did have HMV at one time. Yeah, but they're all gone now anyway. And I find a copy of the Crooked Rain re-release. Okay. But it's like £25 or something. I was making decent money at the time. I had my first proper well-paying job. I had disposable income I was no longer homeless, But I'm not going to spend £25 on this CD I've got no idea if it's good or it's bad There's like 50 tracks So I know I'm probably going to get some sort of value for money.Track 3:[11:06] I leave. I think nothing else of it. About half an hour later, I go around the corner, and there's this independent record store sleeves. People in Fife will mourn it forever. It's gone now as well, as most independent record stores probably are. But in there, I find a copy of the re-release for £5. What? yeah it's a bit battered it's a bit broken as I think all pavement records should be, but yeah no questions asked I immediately buy it.Track 3:[11:52] I read on the bus home I read the, sort of the booklet that comes with it which just the whole time it's just adding to the mystique you know because I think Malkmus writes, I think it's from an old like, article he writes like an explanation for each song and it's never quite clear if he's just taking the piss or not, he says about stop breathing is a bit of a tennis match I was like, why wouldn't it be, you know? So, yeah, that night, the Saturday night, it burned in my memory. I mentioned this in the Creelvid user video as well.Track 3:[12:46] All my friends are going out on the town which was never an exciting occasion, but this night especially I put my foot down and said I'm not coming out I've got to paint a wall which I did, I had a wall to paint in my living room or wherever but my main reason for staying in was I wanted to listen to Crooked Ruin, Wow So I get everything ready I get A couple of beers ready Like take a couple of bong hits Or whatever I used to do that by then.Track 3:[13:28] And I get the I get the CD ready And the stereo you know And as soon as I switch it on I'm just transfixed, Like The intro to Silent Kid Or Silent Kit whatever they call it is still one of the most exciting pieces of music to me. It's fucking spectacular. Yeah, but I'd never heard a band do that. I know they've got a reputation of not giving a fuck, and a lot of bands tried to affect that feeling back then, but this is the first time I'd ever truly heard it. Yeah, yeah. Just the build-up and you hear them talking to each other and it's like, we're just going to leave that in? And it's like, yeah, of course we are. That's the recording, you know. And I just sat down on the edge of the couch, just staring at the stereo.Track 3:[14:35] And then every song after that just added to the... It was... Yeah, it was the most exciting night of music I've ever had. Oh, Jesus, that gives me goosebumps. And for, like, a good maybe six months after that, I think it's all I listened to. Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain. And of course there was a lot to listen to because it was the re-release so I got all the.Track 3:[15:10] I got all the demos of B-Sides as well and this was, perhaps, you could call it their golden era you know it had another one of my favourite pavement tracks Grounded, it had the demo of that so you got like a sort of, you know a sneak peek of what was to come, but yeah after that I think all my friends got sick of me, talking about pavement going on about pavement and it still happens quite a lot these days, you'd hear a new song on the radio and I'd say that's just a fucking pavement rip off, you know it still happens to this day I hear a song and I think, nah, you're the biggest band in Britain just now, probably, or Wet Lake, you heard them? No, I've not. Oh, they went really viral a couple of years ago with their first video, which is She's Long. Yeah. But yeah, they're big. They're quite popular in my work. I'll run Night Shift. Sometimes the radio sucks. Sometimes it's pretty cool.Track 3:[16:33] But yeah, they were getting played in the radio quite a bit. I went and listened to their album. And the final track on the album is called Supermarket. Okay. And I'm not going to call it a pavement ripoff, but it's definitely pavement inspired. Really? Yeah. It's like they sat down and thought, like, let's write a pavement song, you know? Not rip off a Pavement song, but let's write an homage. Yeah. You can go and check it out afterwards. It's kind of Wally's Alley-ish. Huh. But yeah. What's your go-to record at this point? Oh, that's always going to be Crooked Rain. Yeah? Always. Just because of those memories? Because of the night it blew me away, you know? Yeah. Second, I would say, was Slanted. That's the record I came to next.Track 3:[17:27] Believe it or not, probably my least favorite, and there is no least favorite, it's still a pavement record. Probably the one I go to least is Wowie. Oh, yeah? And I think that's just because that's the one I came to last. Right.Track 3:[17:46] But yeah, I was thinking of weird pavement stuff to tell you. After all, the very first time I listened to WALL-E, or not the first time I listened to it, but probably my favorite song on WALL-E is Father.Track 3:[18:04] Father to a Sister of Thought. Fucking brilliant song, yeah. And in that song, they mention Corpus Christi. Right. Right. The very first time I heard that song, I was driving my car. And they mentioned the Corpus Christi part. And straight away, I receive a phone call from my dad who was working in Corpus Christi. Get out of here. Yeah, seriously. That's fucked. He was in Texas, and he phones me, and I've just heard this Corpus Christi line. Like, what the hell? and I didn't even pull over to take the phone call, which is technically illegal. Well, I'm going to turn you in. Another thing is it was weird with pavement. Once I knew of them, once I... Go into them i saw them everywhere it's like oh yeah it's like when you've never heard a word before and you hear a new word and suddenly you just hear it everywhere you know right um so yeah the other sort of weird kind of thing is uh a couple years after that i'm moved to.Track 3:[19:26] They call it a city it's not really a city dundee in scotland not a nice not a nice place, so I'd start sort of dating this girl I can't even remember if we were dating at the time, she was a bit weird I realised far too late that she was highly autistic but we were math students so that comes to the territory, and one of the weirdest things about her is she was obsessed with this cartoon from the 90s, Space Ghost. Okay, yeah. So one day we go out for coffee, and just before we go to the coffee shop, I go and buy the Bright in the Corners re-release. And what are the last two songs on it? Space Ghost. Space Ghost theme, yeah. I think that made her like me more, you know. So it went in my favor. Nicely done. Well, what do you say we get into listening to track number 15? What is that? Well, we're not going to tell you until after this break. Okay. All right, we'll be right back.Track 2:[20:53] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening, and now on with a countdown.Track 3:[25:25] And there it is at track 15 from Wowie Zowie, Rattled by the Rush. What are your thoughts on Rattled by the Rush, Ross, from Fife? Well, I already said since I came to it last, Wowie's not my jam.Track 3:[25:47] I love it. It's still a pavement album. It's never the one that I go to. Right. and Rattled by the Rush might be the last pavement hit that I actually heard. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't think I heard it until at some point in the early 2000s. I bought, I can't remember what it's called now, the DVD. Slow Century. Slow Century, yeah. Yeah. I think maybe that's the first time I ever heard it. Oh because they showed the video on that right yeah I can't remember if it's the proper video or not I know that they had to re-release the video because it was making people sick, people used to be such fucking pussies, yeah um and I don't dislike the song or anything um if it's number 15 that's kind of surprising it wasn't in my top 20 No. It probably would be in my top 50. Okay. It sounds like I'm hating here. I'm not hating. No. At all.Track 3:[27:07] Well, you definitely think it's overrated at 15, so that's... Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Definitely. The most interesting thing is obviously the lyrics. It's like a typical sort of malchemist crossword yeah I would agree with that I took a few notes, the opening line oh that I could bend my tongue outwards leave your lungs hurting.Track 3:[27:42] Could be sexual. Could be? It could also pertain to that tongue trick thing where people can fold their tongue up, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did a little research and apparently 73% of adults can do it. I cannot do it. I can't either, but I've learned that you can teach yourself to do it. Oh, really? yeah i was i i work night shift so you've got to find ways to pass the time yeah exactly um and that was a thing that was going about work a couple of years ago everybody asking can can you do it can you not and i can't do it but i have learned that you can teach yourself but you haven't taught yourself well I, I got I got halfway there but I forgot to keep like doing it you know gotcha it was it was never, maybe if I put it together for a pavement song that would have helped.Track 3:[28:53] Yeah after that we've got leave your lungs hurting tuck in my shirt and pints I wear so well cross your t-shirt smell well, that's just good malchus wordplay, right? Yeah. Maybe there's a specific meaning. Obviously, there's a theme there, clothing.Track 3:[29:16] After that, we come on to the best line in the song, maybe the best line in Pavement's entire discography, caught my dad crying. Yes. I wrote down here maybe it's better we don't know what it means yeah I mean I don't think for a single second Malcolm has walked in on his dad crying, but just the imagery the thoughts it's, The crucial word is caught. He could have said, saw my dad crying. He could have said, found my dad crying. But he says caught. Right. Like it's a bad thing, you know.Track 3:[30:03] So, yeah, God knows what to say about that. It's just a great line, you know. I agree. After that, we've got, Loose like the wind from the rough we get par. This is one of my favorite things about Pavement. They like to make sports metaphors they do yeah and we've got a whole song about sports and London Lions that was in my top 20, we've got bring on the major leagues possibly their biggest hit yeah but also just the line from the rough we get par, that would indicate to me after a bad start things have turned out alright right.Track 3:[30:47] And I know there's a prevailing feeling that the whole song is about their career or where their career has taken them I didn't know that well just the whole rattled by the rush just them being affected by, whatever level of fame they'd built up I didn't hear Pavement until 99 so I didn't get to witness the, right the ascent or the rise or whatever right you know right but yeah i've heard in doing a lot of research i did that this the whole song was about their you know them struggling to cope with you know whatever rise the rise to fame yeah and i do know from reading the liner notes and uh.Track 3:[31:39] In both Crooked Reign and Huawei re-releases that they were kind of fighting back against it. Maybe not fighting back against it, I think that gets overplayed sometimes. But I think Mark missed his explain. Maybe on Huawei or the Crooked re-release that they were kind of scared.Track 3:[32:08] You know how could you not be they were like a couple dudes from Stockton you know that were that recorded some noise art and next thing you know cut your hair comes out and that I would say is the biggest song oh yeah definitely I find that at the time as well it was just a really big time for music yeah a lot of majors were looking for the next Nirvana that's right Pavement were never going to be that. But they could have filled a hole, filled a gap. Spin Magazine named them the best band, pardon me, the best album of 2000, no, not 2000, 1992. Before the album even came out, right? Before it was chanted, yeah. No, no, it had come out. It had come out. It was the number one record of the year for 1992. So they came with a lot of buzz, like a lot of buzz. I remember reading the sort of tapes that they sent out for slanted they didn't send many out but every single one found its way to someone influential that's right I don't know if they were friends but they were fucking around with Sonic Youth.Track 3:[33:27] Certainly helped they opened for Sonic Youth on the UK tour yeah first time in the UK in 92 so that was there's a great Nostanovich podcast with another Canadian guy.Track 3:[33:42] There's like music journalism online oh is it creative control I think that's what it is I think that's what it is he explains that him Malkmus and Berman got a Nirvana show, cancelled, not cancelled but shut down in New York because they were being so boisterous. Really? Yeah, and this was before Nirvana took them to Redden and stuff, you know? Wow. So they were in that... They were in that space. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.Track 3:[34:17] They probably were getting a lot bigger than they thought they'd ever be, were ever prepared to be. Absolutely. Especially, you know, Slanted came out with a lot of hype, but Crooked Rain all of a sudden was this record that had hits on it, gold sounds and cut your hair. So, you know, I think a lot of people got maybe a bit carried away about what they could be. Well, one of the things, it doesn't fit into the hype, one of the things I wanted to mention about Crooked Rain maybe one of the reasons I liked it so much is it's a little bit what I call country fried, okay yeah I can see that father to sister of thought especially right well that's wowie, Crooked Rain's got his own range life I'm sorry but whenever an indie rock band, introduces a little element into country, I call it Country Frights. Country Frights.Track 3:[35:14] Crookheads and while we are definitely Country Frights, one of my favourite modern bands, Parkey Courts, they're a bit Country Frights. I've heard a lot of comparisons to Pavement with them. Well, the reason I first listened to Parkey Courts is I've seen an article where Malchmus was in a record store and he heard Parkey Courts and he thought it was Pavement. Jesus Christ, really? That's the reason I first listened to them, you know? Yeah. And? What do you think?Track 3:[35:50] Their first album, definitely, I could see the comparisons. The same kind of attitudes, like not really caring about tunings or you know. Just the first take's good enough no matter what. But that is a real good album. You should listen to Lie Up Gold, Parquet Courts. I'll check it out. Yeah, it's very, very good. I was trying to think. Meat Puppets, they were kind of country fried. Yeah, yeah. Have you got anything else on Brattled by the Rush? Well, it might destroy every argument I've already made, but the first chorus, I'm Drowning for Your First, that reads to me like being desperate for someone's attention, And that's not pavement at all, you know? No, no. Maybe that's something very personal to Malchus. Yeah, I'm drowning for your... The second album's kind of... The second verse, I think he's just showing off. Rhyming candelabra with Barbara.Track 3:[37:12] There's other lines. get all those hard hats and sing us some scat. I just think he's scatting himself there, you know? Yeah. Although the very last line, again, it's one of their best. I don't need a minister to call me a groom. I love it. What does that mean to you? What does it mean to me? I think, well, I don't need a minister to call me a groom. Like, you can, like, fuck religion. and you can go and get married or you can do whatever you want.Track 3:[37:47] Well, this is maybe just completely personal to me. Have you ever been in a sort of strictly friends with benefits relationship? No. No. Well, I have. I was for a couple of years. And to be honest, it was maybe the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. But um i noticed during that time that friends of mine who were in traditional relationships, they fucking hated it oh wow because i was getting all the good stuff without, all the bad stuff you know and i never had to meet her parents i never had to go on any any dates with Ikea. See what I did there? I got it. Yeah, so every time I hear, I don't need a minister to call me a groom. That's what comes to mind. Really? That's just maybe because of, you know, where I was at the time. Yeah.Track 3:[38:53] But yeah, again, I've seen that linked back to the music industry. And I guess Malcomus doesn't need I don't know who the minister is but to call me a groom would be to call me a star you know, okay I can he's already a star selling you know a quarter of what other bands are, and then of course they go on I'm rattled by the rush I'm rattled by the rush etc that that.Track 3:[39:29] And I know that Pavement's writing is sometimes a bit obtuse or weird, but that has to be a reaction to whatever level of fame or popularity they've gained by that point. I can see it. We've got the interlude, no soap in the John. That's very funny. I know that John's a sort of Americanism for toilet. Yeah. So to me, that would mean no sort of airs or graces.Track 3:[40:06] Or they're not going to clean themselves up for whatever, whoever. You've done a deep dive on some of these. I've thought about it a little bit. Yeah, you have. I've had a lot of time recently.Track 3:[40:23] Well, dude, speaking of time, it's been a great time hanging out with you talking pavement. I really appreciate you making some time for me and doing this, hearing your pavement origin story and talking about Song 15. Next week, we're going to hit Song 14, and I'm going to tell you what it is right now. No, I'm not. I'm just kidding. All right everybody is there any clue is there any clues you can give to like not what's in the top 10 or not a bit no way is there anything that took you by surprise, it all took me by surprise so far yeah we're gonna at the end of the series we're gonna do some sort of round table with people who haven't got a chance to be on and they will um, discuss the list as a whole because they'll have the entire list at that point. It's difficult, you know, recording this and you don't know all the songs that come before it. But hey, that's part of the game. I should point out that with my whole Crooked Re experience, Gold Sounds is my number one favorite song from anyone of all time and it's probably never going to change. It's a fucking great song. And if it's not number one, I'm going to write.Track 3:[41:44] All right, dude. Talk to you soon. Wash your goddamn hands.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week on the show jD welcomes Vish from his own Kreative Kontrol, if you haven't checked it out get after it!Vish discusses song 18 and shares his Pavement origin story.Transcript:Track 1:[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.Track 2:[0:02] This week we're going deep on Box Elder. How are you feeling about song number 19, Kyra, from the COWI? I fucking love Box Elder so much. It's a great song. It's one of the earlier Pavement songs. I think it's a very early Pavement song, which is cool. And it's one that really holds up.Track 1:[0:25] I think, too. you. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.Track 3:[0:34] Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus, a wet towel, and some scrawny kid from 10th grade gym class. How will your favorite songs fare in the rankings? You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week I'm joined by Pavement superfan Vish from Creative Control with Vish Khanna. Dude, thanks for taking some time to do this. It means a lot. How the hell are you doing? I'm well, JD. Thanks for having me on your show. How are you doing? I'm great today. It's a little overcast here, but it's about five degrees so i'm gonna go for a walk later and uh.Track 3:[1:24] And that's a, that's, those are good times for me. Very nice. That's good. Going outside. Can't beat it. Yeah. No, you can't at all. Well, let's not beat around the bush, speaking of beat it, and get right into your Pavement Origins story.Track 3:[1:38] Talk to me about that, Vish. Well, I was trying to, you know, I knew I was coming on your show, so I figured I should try to ponder this, you know, and I, I was trying to remember. Remember, I think I first came upon the band when I read about them in Spin Magazine, like, I think before Crooked Rain came out. And I don't know what it was about that piece. This is right around the time I started getting to go to record stores. You know, I'm, what would I have been then? I would have been 15, 16. Some of us were driving so we could leave Cambridge, Ontario, where I'm from, and we could go to Kitchener and Waterloo and Toronto. They had the cooler record stores those were like uh college university towns so then we started going to record stores and then you start talking to the record store people and they tell you what they like and you respect them because they're your surrogate parents so somebody somebody somewhere along the line told me about pavement i i'm pretty sure it was the spin magazine article that i was i started devouring more and more music journalism and i think it was that so i remember owning uh slanted and enchanted and also uh the record store had the trigger cut single so i think i bought both things and i'm fairly certain about both things and uh i will say that that first single got me completely obsessed with their singles um because i think they're.Track 3:[3:07] I don't know, they're one of the greatest treasure troves of any band I can think of. I know you've probably talked about this with others, but I really value Pavement B-Sides. Like, I wasn't that surprised. I mean, I was surprised that Harness Your Hopes went kind of bonkers recently, but like, I'm not surprised. Like, Pavement B-Sides, I know some of them better than I know the album songs, to be honest with you. I just became so obsessed with how great, like, the the quality of their B-sides really spoke to me. And then, yeah, that's one of the, and then I feel like that was a gateway into like, what is Silver Jews? Like, why is this, what is Silver Jews in the pavement section? What is it? Oh, it's a, it's a project. Oh, there's Bob and Steve on the back of the album covers. So they're in this, I guess. And so, yeah, the B-side alternate pavement universe if you will really spoke to me and still does uh i find myself uh kind of you know mumbling song lyrics and and tunes and melodies from you know humming them from from all the b-side so yeah i i would i would position myself that way as someone who i get a little obsessive so it wasn't just the album uh the albums it was like i want to get all the singles so i owned every single.Track 3:[4:24] On mostly on compact disc when i was coming up of age and now i've got them all on actually you know what i ordered i ordered that thing that you ordered the box that i ordered the singles box that i have a bunch of them but i was like what the hell i'm gonna do it so the book looks good yeah everything about it looks good i love pavement so uh i just thought i would get that too and uh yeah i think that's pretty much it that's where i discovered them and then of course they blew up uh you know they're one of those bands that all your cool uh heroes were talking talking about before you even heard them you know so you'd read a interview with somebody you liked and they'd mention pavements you're like what is this pavement so really have a time and place for me word of mouth and then actually digging in i have still a sense memory of playing slanted and enchanted and hearing summer babe and you're just like what the hell so yeah i'd say that's that that that's that's got to be it i think that's it and you got to be there for the release of watery then did you as somebody who was like sort of ep and single obsessed did you pick that up when it came out i did i did pick it up i don't know if i got it right when it came out i can't say that for sure because i feel like i still came to them a little bit later um because i'm sure they were that article was 93 like i don't think it was about slanted it was just mentioned so but i got it yeah and as you may have heard me talk about it's yeah it's my it's like my favorite thing, really, in some ways. I love, and yeah, I miss Gary Young.Track 3:[5:51] I never got to meet or talk to Gary Young, but yeah, the drumming as a drummer as well, as a budding drummer, like hearing Gary's playing, that had a huge influence on me too. So yeah, that era. Put your finger on what it is, isn't it?Track 3:[6:06] Like, what it is about Gary's drumming. I love Westy. I love him. He's a great guy, and he's a great drummer. But there's something about Gary. There's something about the looseness and the showmanship of people like Gary Young. I would say here in Canada, we have Mark Gaudette, who was in Eric's trip, and his drumming, too. Like, it's punk rock, but it's a bit more technical. And it's precise, but it's loose. And it just has it. He's making an instrument. you know they have their own voice i suppose as drummers they have their own like you hear it and you're like oh that's that's that's either gary or as i mentioned mark for two examples uh or it's someone copying them you know it's someone someone kind of ripping them off so i certainly was of this learning how to play the instrument and getting into some really amazing drummers at the time uh just because i didn't take drum lessons i would just listen to things or go see bands and And certain people and their drumming had a huge impact on me. And certainly early pavement drumming, you know, I think it's an underrated facet of that band. Did you get a chance to see the Gary Dock?Track 3:[7:18] No, you know what? I haven't seen that doc. That's a good call. I've been rather swamped of late and I need to do that. Have you seen it? Yeah, it's really, it's, it's pretty fabulous. Yeah, I can imagine. You're right. I should, I don't know. I'm at a thing where I got to do so much and I process so much information and music and I can't keep up with everything. So yeah, I saw it come through and I was like, yeah, I will watch that eventually. And then before you know it, I don't think I'm alone in this where there's just so much stuff to consume, but yeah, good Good call. Good call. I'll try to track it down on, I don't know if it's on a thing, a service or whatever, a streaming service, but I'll try and watch that. Yeah, I think it is because I don't know how I would have seen it. I forgot. Yeah. Um, when, when did you finally get to, uh, see them live or did you see them live in the original sort of run? I saw them for the first time in Barrie, Ontario at Lollapalooza in 1995. This was the. Wow. Lollapalooza curated by Sonic Youth.Track 3:[8:18] So also on the bill was, it was supposed to be Sinead, or sorry, it was supposed, yeah, it was supposed to be Sinead O'Connor, but I think I attended the first show that she couldn't play because she was pregnant. And so Elastica filled in, but the day was like a mighty, mighty Boston's first time I got to see the Jesus lizard. Blizzard, uh, uh, Pavement obviously played during the day, uh, Hole played. Beck was on the lineup too, wasn't he? Yeah, I saw Beck play two sets, one on the main stage, uh, this was just ahead, uh, ahead of Odile coming up, and, um, he also did a side stage, uh, performance where I actually spoke to him, he, he came down and, uh, signed autographs, so he signed, I don't know where it is but he signed my Lollapalooza ticket stub and I asked him I actually I think I, I tripped him out a little because I'd heard that he was going to be collaborating with a Toronto musician. And when I mentioned it, he was like, oh, yeah, we have been talking about that. Like he was I kind of nardwired him.Track 3:[9:23] I didn't mean it was just a rumor. I just said it. And he was like, oh, yeah, we were talking about that. So anyway. Yeah. So, yeah. And the Far Side played and Moby played and all sorts of amazing eclectic. Yeah. Yeah, Cypress Hill was one of the headliners. Bob Nastanovich, when he was on my show, I did a little documentary about Bright in the Corners. And he talked extensively about their experiences with some of the artists and their experiences playing Lollapalooza. And Bob's amazing innovation of suggesting that instead of getting a bus, they would each get minivans. He got a great deal in some rental minivans and that way they could play and then just drive ahead to the show and not worry about the gear and all that stuff and and and they could kind of travel at their leisure and uh yeah anyway so Lollapalooza 95 is the first show then I saw them at the Phoenix in Toronto for the Bright in the Corners tour and then I saw them play uh you remember the cool house and the, sorry, for those wondering in Toronto.Track 3:[10:33] There was a venue and it had two rooms. It was called the Warehouse. And then beside it was something called the Government, a smaller room. And then the Warehouse became, it was like the RPM Warehouse or something like that. That's right. And then it changed names. It was the Cool House, but I think the Government was still there. So for Terror Twilight, as I recall, Pavement played the Government. So the smaller room on that tour. So I saw them there. And then I saw them on Toronto Island on the first reunion tour with the Broken Social scene.Track 3:[11:08] And I think that's the last time I was invited or I was supposed to go see them in Austin, Texas. And Bob hooked me up. And I think I might have even been able to attend the Austin City Limits taping. But unfortunately, I couldn't make it at the last minute. So that was a bit of a bummer. But I regret it. But, you know, it was weird, still weird pandemic times then. And I, I think there was also other stuff going on. So I didn't get to see them on this current reunion, but it still seems to be going as we're speaking. So who knows?Track 3:[11:42] Maybe I can see them somehow. now yeah yeah and we are recording this in early april so yeah there's we're not uh that's not a scoop people just in case you're listening to this in october and you're like oh christ they're coming back um they may they very may well be i just edited the bob episode and you know i sort of teased him because he's like we're done after south america and i was like come on come on yeah i'll believe you're done when i when when you're done yeah but um enough about me back to you uh i'm curious about the lola performance like so you got to see them in a government isn't intimate but it's nice um and then you got to see them in um lollapalooza in front of a big crowd what do you think of the the festival version of pavement well i mean obviously it's well documented that they didn't have the best time on that tour on some level uh in slow century there's obviously the the fracas uh you know uh where people are throwing mud at them and all sorts of a rock at steven actually uh you know i i was a kid i mean that was sensory overload i i was just going to how old was I? So 95 I was had I even turned.Track 3:[13:08] Yeah, I was not even, what was I, seven, 16 or something like that? I don't know. I was not an old, I was young. You were 76? No, wait a minute. Yeah, I was 17. So I was born, no, I was born in 77. So I hadn't yet turned 18. So I was 17. And yeah, it was just, that was a bonkers year, to be honest with you. That summer, I went to everything. I went to so many festivals.Track 3:[13:31] For all my bellyaching about my parents not letting me do stuff, they let me do a lot of stuff that summer so uh yeah i don't i think i was just overwhelmed by how many people were surrounding me and and and i got up as close as i could for pavement um and we got up really close like seeing the jesus lizard was a bit i love the jesus lizard already at that point i just love them and to see them was like they were larger than life and you know yeah for those who've never seen them or footage of them at that point, Yao would come into the crowd, you know, he would leap off the stage and crowd surf and all that kind of stuff and sing while he was doing it. So it was very immersive. And then Pavement, relatively the opposite, you know, they're on stage and the songs are great and they played well, as I recall. But on some level, I remember just making a point of getting up as close as possible and trying not to, at the same time, you know, be conscious of not bothering people as you move your way up, you know, because I was kind of annoyed at everyone running around and pushing their way forward and all that stuff. So, uh... Never made sense to me. Yeah, it just... That's my main memory of just, like, trying to... I was probably... For the Jesus Lizard and Pavement, I was probably... That was the closest I was probably, uh, to the stage. And, uh... And then otherwise, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have...Track 3:[14:57] I have a real sense memory of the Phoenix show for Bright in the Corners for a few reasons. And I've talked about them with Bob, at least.Track 3:[15:05] Bob did an interpolation of a Cool Keith song, which I just, I was like, oh, I didn't know people knew about Cool Keith. Like I had only started listening to Cool Keith at that time. And he did. I have no clue. blue cool keith is a a really uh innovative uh underground hip-hop superstar he was in a group called ultra magnetic mcs and then he went solo as dr octagon and as cool keith has all these pseudonyms and uh to be precise uh and oh yeah black elvis like he had all these cool names so to be precise i believe as i recall bob was quoting dr the dr octagon project and he just did it in the middle of a song and then also the other thing that occurred to me and it's sort of relevant to the song today is during uh stereo when steven malcolm is saying the lines about getty lee and his voice being so high he shot his voice up super high like a comically high effect how did it get so like just pitch perfect super high i think it's i think it's documented in a much music interview that they did that day or whatever, like while they were in town. And then obviously afterwards, they interspersed some live footage of the band playing.Track 3:[16:26] And Stephen singing, you know, on this song that we're here to talk about today is so remarkable to me. And I remember that I had this sense memory of him singing that and thinking it was very amusing. I thought it was more amusing than impressive at the time. but over over time as i um have come to value steven's singing voice and his range and his ability, And just instincts as a singer, I view it as more impressive now than, I still think it's funny because I think he's got a comical element to his choices and certainly live anything can happen, but they were just, I think that Bright in the Corner show is the, it's certainly one of the best shows I've ever seen. So I would also say it's one of the, if not the, it was the best time I saw Pavement probably. Oh, that's a great venue. That's what I, that's, I think the Phoenix is phenomenal. I don't want to discount the reunion show I saw because I think with age and time away from each other, they actually have, I don't know, I don't know how many reunion shows you've seen, but often I find that these bands that, particularly for us, you know, the bands around in the 90s, when they come back, they're better. Yeah. They seem more at ease with themselves as people and as players.Track 3:[17:45] And so the absence, I don't know what it is. They just seem more relaxed. And I think when you're more relaxed, you play better. I think 20-something angst, we'll call it. I think if you're not relaxed with each other, you don't play as well. You're just a little uptight. And then as you sort of resign yourself to, well, not resign yourself, but as you sort of get, yeah, you let go of things. I guess that is a way of putting it. You kind of let go of any little grudges and you don't have that angst, whether it's your own or whether it's about yourself or whether it's interpersonal. And I think you just play better. So when I saw the Jesus Lizard on the reunion tour, having seen them several times in the 90s, I just was like, I think they're better. You know, they might be better. better and pavement as i recall from the toronto island show it felt good they played so well you know together um but up until that point yeah i would say that bright in the corners show i saw at.Track 3:[18:46] The phoenix in toronto was just like they were just on fire it was brilliant so yeah cool yeah well before we get into song number 18 i gotta ask you as one of the only people i know that has interviewed Mark Eibold, the reclusive Mark Eibold, how the hell did you do it? And that interview, by the way, was phenomenal. It was great.Track 3:[19:09] Well, that's very kind of you to say. I have to draw back on my memory for this. So the occasion was the Terror Twilight reissue from a year or two or a couple of years ago, whenever it was. Yeah, who knows? And like you, I think my social entry point into this band is Bob Mstanovich.Track 3:[19:32] Absolutely. So Bob is, uh, I've gone on record saying this to others. I think I said it maybe to him during our terror twilight discussion. Bob is the greatest podcast guest of all time. You don't even have to ask him a question and he starts. He's so funny and he's so frank and he says things that I surprised he might say. I love him so much and he's been very kind to me over the years as well. I first spoke with Bob, uh around the time of that reunion uh tour um uh and so what was that 2009 10 thank you very much yeah sorry i think the jesus lizard was 2009 so yeah i spoke to bob around that period and then we've maintained contact basically ever since that was for my college radio show actually and then so that was here in toronto yes that's right yeah well i lived when i was living in ontario at at the time. Um, I had a college radio show and would play some pavement and Bob was a guest on that show. And he's, and I probably wrote a magazine article for exclaim magazine as well. That's what I do and used to do more often. Anyway. Um.Track 3:[20:43] Yeah. So the Tara Twilight thing came about by this point, Bob and I had, he'd been on my podcast a few times. And so I just, I'm sure I went through the proper channels to get, try to figure out the interview and get the music and the, and you know, all the assets and all that. But Bob, I think I was like, Bob, like, can we get everyone? Let's just get everyone on the show. Probably like you have done, like you just, you know, you're, you're trying to do this now. You're trying to talk to as many of the members as you possibly can. Absolutely. And in the loop. So, yeah, you know, I'm emailing Stephen and I think I texted Stephen because, you know, he wasn't responding.Track 3:[21:22] And so we sort of landed on Westy and Bob and Mark and then Jesper, who was involved in the reissue for Matador, was going to take part. And then at the day of, Mark couldn't do it. He was in transit. He couldn't join us for the group call. But yeah, Bob connected us over email, I believe, and maybe text, I don't recall. And so Mark and I, Mark felt, I think, kind of badly that he couldn't do it, like that he said he would do it and that he didn't end up doing it. And uh i i assume bob vouched for me you know um and so that was kind of it uh really we corresponded uh he felt badly that he couldn't make the group call we arranged a time we had a good talk you heard it uh and then i believe i put it out the right after i had put out that that group call uh so back to back it was like pavement week on my show for terror twilight light. Um, so, uh, yeah, I don't, can't recall cause I do so many of these, uh.Track 3:[22:37] Exactly what mark and i talked about i think we talked about some of his, radio listening habits you did yes he still uses a radio yeah you might actually have a better perspective on it than me at this point because i just don't remember uh you know i jd i'm sure you're familiar with this you do so many of them uh interviews uh episodes you're just like oh yeah, i forgot i had so and so on the show what the hell did we talk about again i that happens to me all the time when i edit i'll be listening and i'll be like it sounds like a conversation between somebody who doubles my voice and my guests because i don't recall virtually anything about what we talked about well i remember realizing it was um a real kind of rarity for mark to do such a thing i think at the time um a sonic youth uh archival compilation had had just come out that mark appeared on so there's just a fair amount to talk about it was a lot of memory jogging unfortunately for him like you know trying to remember the terror twilight sessions trying to remember playing with sonic youth like all about a decade out from doing it you know or more a decade or more 20 years um so uh yeah i i he was very lovely and uh and forthcoming and um.Track 3:[23:59] I really appreciate it. I think I've spoken to everyone but Gary, I suppose. I never got a chance to speak to Gary Young. But in terms of the, I guess, whatever, core or original lineup, yeah, I've talked to all of them at some points in my life. And I hope to talk to them again.Track 3:[24:20] Yeah, I do adore them. So it's, yeah. You can tell. You can really tell. And we should have said this off the top, but Viche is, Creative Control is a podcast, if you haven't listened to it, you should listen to it. If you like music, if you're maybe a bit obsessive about music, Viche does a really phenomenal job of, you know, conversations with famous people. People uh for people who listen to this show you might want to start with some of the david berman stuff because it's it's pretty spectacular and uh and then work your way through the pavement but it's all it's all good from the stuff that i've heard for sure well thank you for the kind words and for saying so yeah i uh i do love doing the show and uh it has uh you know it's granted me access and insight, uh, to, and from people I really, truly admire and adore. And, uh, yeah, I marvel at, uh, what I've been able to, uh, accomplish and get away with, uh, it is, it is, I don't really understand it, but certain people like Bob and others, uh, uh, have a fondness for me and return to the show and all that sort of stuff. And, uh, so yeah, it means a lot. Thanks for saying that. No, no, I should have said it off the top. but uh what do you say we talk about the the song this week song number 18 let's do it okay we'll be back right after this hey.Track 1:[25:48] This is bob mistanovich from pavement uh thanks for listening and now on with a countdown 18.Track 3:[29:27] So today we're talking all about song number 18 from the masterpiece Wowie Zowie. It's the absolutely gorgeous Father to a Sister of Thought. Vish, what are your initial thoughts about this song? Well, you know, I was so happy that we landed on this as a song to talk about because I do love Wowie Zowie. I have a sense memory of picking it up when it came out. I think the day it came out. um and um obviously a strange sort of a strange record uh an eclectic record uh and this is interesting it's a really fascinating song because in some ways it's super accessible uh musically it leans with the pedal steel and some of the other moves it leans towards country music.Track 3:[30:18] I will say, as I was pondering it, I mean, I know we are in a vacuum here of people who love Pavement and who love Stephen Malcomus, but as I was listening to this in preparation for our chat, I'm like, Malcomus is like an underrated everything. I really feel that way. And in particular, I think he's a remarkable singer. And, you know.Track 3:[30:51] And this song, I think, exemplifies that. He makes super fascinating choices with his phrasing, I think, and just the notes he's going to go for on words. Like, I don't know how to put it. I'm not super adept at maybe talking about music on that level. But it's just very dynamic, the way he shoots his voice up and sort of speaks, sings one line.Track 3:[31:17] And I think aside from missing his sort of grittiness, he also is a great screamer, great yeller. He really is. Like Paul McCartney level dynamic range, I think, with Steven when he wants to. Like he can sing. I don't know if that resonates with you. Like McCartney, to me, can sing anything. He can sing a ballad. He can sing like a Little Richard Rocker and sound like a punk. Like it's bonkers, that guy's vocal range. And I think Malcomus is in that, totally in that vein. So he's not yelling on this song but i think if anyone is interested like this song is a perfect showcase for what he can do as a vocalist and before i go much further jd does that resonate with you it certainly does i when i think of this song you know the word i used right off the bat was gorgeous uh and it's gorgeous in a number of ways the vocal the melody uh like his ability as a songwriter. I don't know how much of the arranging he did, or if it was Easley who said, let's use this pedal steel.Track 3:[32:25] But nevertheless, it just works so well with the timbre of his voice. And it all comes together in a really lovely ball.Track 3:[32:36] Yeah, and I think the little contrarian aspect to, or I don't know how to describe it, this little element of, yeah, it's a little contrary, I think, you know, I don't think I'm saying anything untoward where there's an element of self-sabotage sometimes in the pavement realm where everything's going fine, and then all of a sudden, let's pull the plug and do something wild and nuts or crazy, you know what I mean? And then yeah so this song has this really jaunty country vibe and then it ends with this like, minimalist noise rock stomp damn yeah yeah yeah like it gets it suddenly becomes a little more punk after the sort of so it's kind of this and it's all part of this it's that end it has nothing to do with anything else we've heard no instrumentally nothing but it works like it works so perfectly and i think it's a way of being like all right i think i think we're getting a little saccharin here it's too gentle or something let's end a little more raucous and uh so to me i hadn't really pondered it as such before but between malchumus i think singing his ass off and and really showing his range uh the band also ends up playing very dynamically and really beautifully and and also grit like as i say there's some grit towards the end so in a weird way.Track 3:[34:03] And again i hadn't thought of it like this was a single as i recall um like there was a video for it and whatnot and they're all dressed up in like country western garb and all these sorts of things, but uh no it's a nice exemplification like this is a pretty good gateway in the pavement if you were like yeah listen to this song again you never heard of this band try this song just try it it's got humor it's enigmatic lyrically the arrangement itself is beautiful but funny uh yeah i i really think uh 18 this should be in the top five it's really wonderful wow yeah i would have it in my top 10 yeah i know you top 10 sure i don't know what these ratings mean i don't believe in ratings and awards but it's water cooler talk no it's i'm just saying as i think about it more first of all uh anyone out there listening uh once i dig into a topic i get a little excitable. So, uh, you can make the argument like, what about these other 10 songs? And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, those are also great. But this, this to me, I think, as I say, it's got a nice balance of earnestness, irreverence, beautiful singing, wonderful playing. Uh, yeah, I just think all across the board, it's beautiful. Yeah. Uh, well said.Track 3:[35:20] When you think back to buying Wowie Zowie, you said you got it on the day it came out. First of all, that's very cool.Track 3:[35:29] And second of all, I wonder, just to go on a tangent for a moment.Track 3:[35:34] I wonder if your penchant for B-sides helped you with that record. Because it's almost constructed to me where there's like a song and then more of a b-side song than a song than more of a b-side song uh you know i'm thinking like brink's job and and and stuff like that um yeah you know so that that would have really helped but what were you thinking the first time and this is asking you to really stretch your brain i apologize but what were you thinking the first time you heard this song on this wicked roller coaster ride of a record you know what it's i know this song gets come or rather the album why always how he gets compared a lot to the white album sure by the beatles um who are from liverpool uh and are no longer around but they were uh that album was um i think it's rightly regarded as this uh odd pastiche niche of sounds and ideas and somehow it it only coheres because contextually they made it cohere like it doesn't really make a ton of sense as an album but it's one of those albums where like i couldn't tell you what the best song on it is because i almost view it conceptually as a whole Oh, wow. Wow. So, there's some of it, like, you can, there are singles from it and whatnot.Track 3:[37:01] But I have a weird, this is more about me, I suppose, JD, than maybe most people, but like, I'm an albums person. So, when an artist or a band puts out an album, I assume, rightly or wrongly, in some cases it's not the case, but I assume it's a unified statement that they're making of a time, of.Track 3:[37:25] Rolling Stones, certain bands, you'll be like, yeah, this album is actually like odds and sods from the previous couple of albums that they just reworked or whatever, revisited. Um, and they still count as albums, you know, certainly Stones in the seventies, you can make that argument. There's a few records where, yeah, like just what I'm describing, it's an album, but it's really like leftovers from some ideas they had. Um, I would put Wowie Zowie in that white album category of like, it's a whole thing. Like, the way it's sequenced, the way songs blend together.Track 3:[38:04] As soon as you hear an artist do that, where the songs kind of barely, there's barely any air between them. Right. That's a sequencing choice. That's a mastering choice. That's all sorts of choices they're making. but there's then tends to be this coherence between them this isn't the case all across wowie zowie but there are songs as you know where it's just the next one just starts you're just right into another song um so it becomes a sort of sweet like thing all this to say uh i might be stalling to answer your question because i haven't listened to the whole album in some time this is going to prompt me to i listened to this song on its own and i will say it was a bit weird.Track 3:[38:48] To hear it on its own because i don't listen to pavement sorry as i've tried to just maybe exemplify i generally don't listen to um bands i got a friend pointed out to me a few years ago he was we were in a band together and he said yeah you once said you don't like greatest hits compilations i said i said that said yeah we were driving we were listening to like acdc or something and you were just it came up in conversation and you said you don't like greatest hits compilations because the context of the music is all out of order and i said right that makes sense to me yeah you're i said yeah okay i don't remember saying that sometimes i say things and i don't remember that i said them and i said oh yeah well i mean i said i said it and it stuck with him like he said yeah i've started to listen that way now because you're right like the context of an album is so important to it so when you asked me to be on the show and and suggested uh you know that we were going to talk about this particular song i just listened to it on its own.Track 3:[39:52] Totally weird. Totally weird to hear it out of the album context. So I think going back to my sense memory, I don't know. I mean, it starts with We Dance, which is weird. And then you're right. Some of the songs seem, I mean, to some people, they would seem like half finished ideas. That's right. Right. Or just like little jabs of things, you know. So you're absolutely right too, like Serpentine Pad, Brink's Job, those sound like they could be B-sides, but I would argue that the pavement B-sides are never really, they don't feel like throwaways to me. I agree. Sometimes they're a little looser and more fun, like things happen and that you wouldn't really hear. No I don't even you know what I'm just going to retract that I think they are all fully.Track 3:[40:48] Realized songs that stand on their own but yeah Wowie Zowie I suppose might have been the first sort of inkling that this band could do anything and they weren't afraid to try anything, I'm sure some people were disappointed after Crooked Rain Crooked Rain to hear this, band be a little more punk but also as we're talking about a song that like I say who knows I don't know I I've not really thought about this in a long time but I'm sure making the construction of wowie zowie and the sequencing was potentially a reaction to how much success and how they broke through with crooked rain.Track 3:[41:34] Yeah, I can get behind that thought because, I mean, it's almost outlined in Cut Your Hair, right? Yeah. That's sort of the blueprint for Wowie Zowie in a way. Yeah, like not deliberately self-sabotaging themselves, but being like, we're maybe a little too big. Let's do something a little less accessible. Like, let's do something a little more. I just want to be clear. I think it's brilliant. I don't find it confusing. But if you got into Cut Your Hair or Gold Sounds or got into that band that you saw freak out on The Tonight Show, you know... And then listen to Pueblo. Yeah, yeah. I think you're kind of like... Yeah. You would just be like, as a band, I doubt it was even conscious, but maybe it was. Maybe we should do something that's a little more like wild. And if that was the case, I'm not sure it was, I'm sure there's literature and I should have maybe revisited some of the liner notes and reissues and things to read about where their mindset was at. But, you know, even describing father to a sister of thought, it has that mix of totally, totally accessible. I could play this for my country music loving grandfather, but then it ends with like, Hey, grandpa, we're still kind of a punk band. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.Track 3:[43:02] Oh, that's great. Going back to the theory of potentially sabotaging themselves, which I'm with you, I don't think they did it on purpose.Track 3:[43:13] I almost think it's like a sound and style change. You're right, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain was so accessible, and it had a familiar sound. It had sort of a California classic rock kind of vibe to it. It crooked rain is i will interject only to say that i think crooked rain is also super weird.Track 3:[43:35] It is it helped them break through but it is a weird album like it starts weird it has like a full studio sound like it sounds like i know that was made in a bit of a patchwork as well but like it sounds more like a studio record um sure they went they went to a place that that it wasn't going to be noisy and hissy and ambient even though it has elements of that like it has a warmth to it but it's a weird and wildly arranged album too but this is even well coming off a slant coming off a slanted though it seems it just seems more you know readily available i suppose to to a wider birth of people yeah but what i was going to say is it almost reminds me of what sm did when he went solo that first record is so accessible and so poppy and so hooky and so earwormy it's amazing and then he did piglib after that which i fucking adore but it's so off the wall compared to the self-titled debut yeah and if we're viewing malcolm as you know uh obviously obviously the main driver of of their songs then yeah it's it's his whims and it's his.Track 3:[44:50] His notions for a batch of songs like you know i think bright in the corners is uh on some level it's the cleanest sounding pavement album but it's also the most esoteric and and you know i the songs sprawl and they're all over the place as well but it's also somehow more coherent and contained than wowie zowie like but but the songs stretch out that's their what did we talk about with somebody recently uh maybe it was with the pavement guys uh grateful dead type stuff yeah sure yeah like it it has a it's it's a little more zen it's less frenetic even though the imagery and whatnot is pretty intense and some of the arrangements are too so yeah i think it's just modes again this goes back to my argument i love albums i love knowing that we're hearing where a band was at, at that given time. Uh, and, and that, that batch of songs, however, like wowie zowie, however disparate the songs might be from one another, that's what they were into. Like, that's what was going on with them at the time, whether it had anything to do with external considerations or perceptions about who they were, uh, how successful they wanted to be. Like Like, that might just be all bullshit I'm making up. It could just be that's just what he had, what Malcomus and what the band had going.Track 3:[46:18] And this is it. You know, why waste it? This is, it's all over the place. Let's put it out as one thing. The next album, a little, like, I think it's, it's fair to say, uh, Bright in the Corners. Well, you know, maybe it's not fair to say, I'll ask you. Bright in the Corners, probably safe to say a more coherent sounding album than Why We Sowie. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's a more album-y album. Right. In a sense. But I also think Slanton and Enchanted all sounds like it's from the same expression, too. Sure, I guess I mean album to album. I just love the way it opens. There's a middle, and then there's an end. There's a finite end with Finn. Yeah yeah well i mean maybe i don't know like we we mentioned lollapalooza uh there was something going on in the in the moment in the cultural moment where you it was really cool to be an open-ended music listener it was really cool to be like yes we're playing with a folk musician we're playing with shanae o'connor and cypress hill on the same day bonkers and the jesus lizard like on some level that is a culture saying everyone is welcome every sound has merit.Track 3:[47:34] We're sick of the orthodoxies we're sick of there being camps um and so maybe wowie zowie reflects that too uh on a musical level it can be noise damaged it can be a beautiful if strange folk song, it can be a country song, it can be a goddamn screamer where Malcolm clearly loses his voice you know, on Half a Canyon or whatever. Like, it's.Track 3:[48:01] Yeah, as we speak of it, I love that album. And like I say, though, I'm having trouble decontextualizing this song from the whole. Right. And that's more about me. But if we really dial into it, when I say this is a good exemplification of Pavement as a whole, maybe it's a good exemplification of Wowie Zowie as a whole. It has that beauty and thoughtful lyricism where you're like, what's he talking about? What's going on? this is really interesting imagery. Is he talking about Corpus Christi, Texas? Or is he talking about Corpus Christi, the kind of event? Like, I remember just thinking right away, why is he singing about Texas? Like, I have that sense memory. And I have this song and some, I'm just a man. Like, I have just little bits of lyrics that are just always with me that I just hum to myself. And yeah, I, this is one of those songs where I just have sort of mindlessly sung it out loud to myself as i'm sort of tooling around my my life you know i don't know if you have that where you just have these lyrical lyrical fragments but this is definitely one of those songs.Track 3:[49:08] And uh i think um yeah it exemplifies both the band and the album in a really fascinating way for me cool well is there anything you want to say uh more about father to a sister of thought or, well you know i'm a lyrics guy and we didn't uh have a chance to get too far into it but i also i know that i mean it's on the surface it seems to be about spirituality and uh people's relationships to that but with malcolm is also you never really know um on some level i think he's spoken about this song and whatnot but um no i don't know all i'll say is i marvel at the guy and i don't think uh he's one of these people i don't think we marvel at enough as a guitar player as a musician as a as a lyricist and particularly on this song as a singer and i hope uh this isn't uh some people don't find this to be a hyperbole but you know i think we take him for granted as He's a vocalist, and this is a great example of what he can do.Track 3:[50:15] Agreed. Well, Vish, it's been dynamite to talk to you today. We went off on a few different directions, and I'm glad we got to do that. Do you want to talk a little bit more about you and the podcast? And I want to say right off the bat that I said it earlier, Creative Control, it's with K's, Creative Control. So if you're searching for it on the Google, you're going to want to spell it correctly. Correctly well thank you thank visha style of correctly well i will uh immediately say that this is a reference to a hot snake song of the same name creative control um so that's why i didn't make up the case thing and now there's like a fashion company called creative control and i think someone like fashions themselves a rapper and they call themselves creative control but they kind of show up and they don't show up i don't know what's going on but anyway yeah that's my show i mean on the internet they'll be like tweeting ramp like rabidly and then they just disappear. And then I don't know what's going on. Anyway. Yeah. Nothing to do. I, Hey, I copped the name from a band I like, so I can't really complain. Complain spelled with a K by the way.Track 3:[51:23] So, uh, yeah, I have this podcast and as we're speaking, uh, you know, it's, it's still going, uh, and it's more important to me than ever because, uh, it is now my main, job at the moment as maybe by October it won't be, but, um.Track 3:[51:41] Yeah, so all I can say is if you support the work of people like me and JD and want to support podcasters, crowdfunding, I don't know about you, JD, and we don't have to talk too much shop, but the advertising revenue is very minimal and it's honestly a little gross. No offense to your sponsors.Track 3:[52:01] I'd rather just not have it. Yeah, I'd rather not have it. But yeah, the crowdfunding and the Patreon that I have is particularly important to me at the moment. So I have different incentives and different tiers and all that kind of stuff, like pay tiers, and it's flexible and monthly and all that kind of stuff. So sorry to make this about the money. We've already talked about some of the content or whatever, like the people I talked to. Yeah, I'm proud of it. It seems to be relentless. It's never going to stop unless I do and stop making it. That sounded morbid. uh by the way if i die the show will likely die too i i just want to be clear about that but no i i love doing the show it's afforded me um some wonderful experiences and both in the conversations and then just from people like you jd reaching out wanting to talk i mean it means a lot to me so thank you for giving me a time to some time to plug and thank you for having me on this wonderful show of yours and for the the lovely conversation it means a lot yeah for me Me too. Thank you so much. All right, everybody, that's what we've got today. So be cool. Make sure you're safe and wash your goddamn hands.Track 1:[53:15] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcolmists, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you. If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email. JD at MeetingMalcolmists.com. You.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

jD, what gives it's Friday! Well I've decided to take a pause to reflect on the list thus far. I've enlisted Allison from Portland and Elvar from Iceland to go on this journey. They will discuss, dissect and debate the list as it stands thus far. Enjoy!Transcript:Track 2:[0:15] Hey, it's J.D. here, back for another episode of the Pavement Top 50 Countdown. Hey, wait a minute. It's Friday. I can't be doing the countdown today. I just did number 20 on Monday. We're cracking the top 20.Track 2:[0:31] This coming Monday, we're going to hit song number 19, if you can believe it. We're so far down this list, it makes me cuckoo bird. because we've yet to sort of analyze the list with context. So we're going to remedy that today. I've got two people that are chomping at the bit to discuss, dissect, and talk in detail. How do you like that alliteration? About the list thus far. Song 50 to song 20. That's right. right, they are going to tear that son of a bitch limb from fucking limb and talk to you about whether songs are rated too high, too low, just right. Are songs missing from this list that should be in the 50 to 20 range? Are there songs in the 50 to 20 range that you would not have in the top 50 or should they be inside the top 50 if they're not inside the top 20 i don't know what i just said there i'm a little fucked up so there's that so let's get right to this let's waste no more time we have got allison from portland and elvar from iceland joining us elvar how the fuck are you doing, man?Track 1:[1:56] Pretty good. Pretty good. Elvar over here. Good to be here, man. Thanks for inviting me on. It's good to have you over.Track 2:[2:03] So from Icelandic, we go to Portlandic. Portland get it uh anyway uh allison from portland how are you doing motherfucker it's.Track 1:[2:14] Going great um allison over here and uh yeah thanks for thanks for having us yeah it's really great i love the pavement poster in your background by the way thank you that's pretty pretty slick um so you, know i don't think it's fair to go into the list before we get a sense of your pavement origins origin stories. We sort of need to hear those. So, Allison, we'll start with you. Yeah, I'll give a little origin story.Track 1:[2:44] So, my freshman year of college, it would have been all through high school and stuff. I was really into post-punk and just all kinds of punk rock and stuff like that. And I got really, really into the fall. And then I met a guy on an internet dating website who told me if I should, or I guess it would be an app, but he said, if you like the fall, you should listen to Pavement because the fall was one of their influences. And we can get into that and my thoughts on that opinion that some people have a little bit. But either way, I listened to Pavement and totally loved it. And it was just kind of like the soundtrack to my college career. And then since then, I've just, it always stuck with me. And over the past couple of years, getting to see him play all the reunion shows and stuff, it's just been a huge part of my life. So, yeah, it's a band that's influenced by all the stuff that I love. And did something totally unique. So yeah, that's kind of how I got into them. How cool is that? It's almost as though they were constructed in a laboratory just for Allison. That's how I feel, yeah.Track 2:[4:09] So Allison, is there anything you want to tell us about live performances you've seen? Anything like that?Track 1:[4:16] The Portland reunion show as they kicked off the tour a couple years ago. Well, I saw them two times since then. Then I saw him in Seattle and then also in Salt Lake City since then. And then hopefully seeing him, well, definitely seeing him in Seattle again later this year. So, like, cool. Oh, yeah? Oh, cool. Yeah, they're playing Bumper Shoot, so. Right, right, right. Yeah. And then I guess that'll be the end, right? Because we've got news of the Hard Quartet. Yeah.Track 1:[4:47] Yeah i think what's that alvar you haven't heard no what's that malcolm has uh announced his next band oh yeah the hard quartet yeah the hard quartet yeah i heard the hardcore set yeah how do you guys like the new track by the way i honestly haven't listened yeah you allison have you heard it yeah i like it yeah it's pretty good yeah very very gixxy for sure yeah for sure yeah i'm excited to see the rest of the record definitely i'm probably gonna wait for the whole record to drop because i like to listen to things yeah like completely when i heard the song i was like yeah it's i'm gonna i'm gonna love it in context definitely it's a context song i think you know today is all about context isn't it we're putting context to the list you know we're now i want to hear about your yes yes sure so in 2010 i was introduced to payment in my early 20s so i used to be like a rocker like i was into guns and roses when i was seven and music has always been like big for me and then this guy outney from this icelandic band fm belfast he was like hey you have to check out pavement you know like wowie sawie and i got p clip that's the first one i got okay i thought it was okay then i went to this record store and this guy was like yeah this is the best payment album gave me bright in the corners which is debatable and then i just got into it i remember just like going to youtube and listening to these like slanted and and and crooked rain, and just like, it blew my mind, you know?Track 1:[6:17] Like, it changed my life. And like I said, I was like 22 or something. So I got fairly late into the game, but I'm born in the late 80s. So...Track 1:[6:28] I saw Stephen Malkovich and the Jigs at November 19th in 2011 in Milan at a place called The Tunnel and we had a really nice interaction. I did like a shout out. I shouted out, do not feed the claustrophobic oyster which was my funny way of kind of requesting the track you know and Malkovich did like a skit like we but a lot I remember like I forget what he said but he finished it up with we don't know in songs about oysters so you know that was pretty cool so.Track 1:[7:04] And i don't know if you guys know but pavement played here last uh summer like three nights yeah and that's like a thing like wilco did it i went and saw all three wilco shows nick cave just did it because he sold out so it's like a hot shit in iceland to come and do like a vegas you know thing so so that was pretty i'm so regretful that i didn't make it i wanted to go so badly and i made some really good friends from america who i'm talking to like daily now you know like through through pain so that's awesome so yeah pavement bringing people together since 1989 1989. Definitely. Definitely. Let me say this though. They did play some of the same songs like, you know, throughout the night. What Wilco did, they played three, 23 tracks at, and never the same song. And that was mind blowing. So kudos to Wilco. I don't know if I can throw that out at the payment. Of course you can. Of course you can. That was like, like fuck, you know, so, but awesome. Awesome. Great. That's my origin story.Track 1:[8:13] All right. Well, we sound like we've got two qualified, bonafide folks here to analyze this list. So let's start at the start.Track 1:[8:25] What do you think? Have you been listening? Have you been arguing with yourself when you hear some of these songs come out and you hear these people talk about the virtues of these songs? Songs um are you pleasantly surprised are you disappointed give it to me all alvar you can start buddy a little bit of both do you want me to start with the songs who are too lower or or too high you know you you are the leader my friend let me start with this loretta scars is at number 34 and that's probably my single favorite songs of all time uh wow just i don't know just the way he You guys know the song, the way he sings it in this pleating, nonchalant tone.Track 1:[9:17] And when it kicks into full gear, I can just fucking hear eons of human history in that song, for lack of a better word. Really? And like the way he sings it, like the way he sings Loretta's scars, the way his voice like winds up on Loretta and then lazily speaks the scars. I fucking love that. That's my favorite vocal melody of all time. And I don't know why, just like if people, for the last 10 years, if people ask me, what's your favorite song? I always go to that song. It's just.Track 1:[9:57] So you're pissed at 34? 34 yeah where is it on your list it's it's definitely higher than 34 because i i love that song um i don't know i'm not super good with like the different like with like pedal talk but whatever tone um he's got on that like fuzzy slanted era guitar is like one of my favorite tones so yeah um i think loretta scars is like one of the best examples of that and um i don't one of my favorite things that malchus does with his voice is like change register a lot like kind of what you're saying and um he does it beautifully in that song um yeah i definitely think that one could have been higher but i think a lot of the slanted songs could be higher but that's my my My own preference. And the lyrics. Interesting note, at number 34, that's the first song from Slanted and Enchanted on the list. That's the lowest one. That's the lowest one. Interesting. Yeah. That's insane. That's insane. I don't know how many others are on the list. I can't tell you, but. Right. But.Track 1:[11:16] But it's cool. He's using like, Mark Musch uses two guitar tunings on this album for these guitar heads. And he's using the C, G, D, G, B, E tuning, which makes this really nice dissonance. Like he's doing pop chords, but like, you know, that's what's great about this album. You know, he's doing like pop chords, these weird left field pop structures, but with these, you know, alternative tunings that really bring this awesome, awesome flavor, you know, and Gary's on the drums.Track 1:[11:49] It's just like, I don't know. It's just a beast. She's a beast yeah i could go on about that song you know but like you know i'll just i'll just have to do like a separate youtube video on it but you know yeah definitely allison do you have one you want to pick up i was very surprised to see where is it so i can make sure i get the number right i was very surprised to see pueblo at 39 because i thought that could be way higher um it's funny because like in the 30s and 40s i i mean i guess that's still pretty high out of 100 but a lot of my absolute favorites are on here so like pueblo number 39 and starlings the slipstream at 40 those two are like two of my favorites so seeing those ranked at that level right next to each other um is a little bit interesting i think they're similar songs too um just in the way that they kind of get into this like mellow ballad um era from from that that time of pavement where he kind of leaned into the more melodic ballads a little bit.Track 1:[13:04] Uh, and it's like a lot of belting out and sort of like a climax in the song. Uh, I really associate that with those two tracks. So I was really thinking it would be higher than, um, that level. And then there's some other ones on there. I said slanted, but I guess more of what I was referring to is like the early, like Westing and like before they did, uh, more of the full length records. And it was a lot of like EPs and stuff. A lot of those early days are my favorite songs. So I thought that some of these would be a little bit higher too. Like Home would be one. Yeah. Yeah, there's very little representation on the three EPs. I'm just looking quickly here. Yeah. And. Five, six songs. Yeah, like maybe Pacific Trim. There's one from Pacific Trim. So in the top. Yeah. Gosh, in the stuff that we've listened to, I almost gave something away. But in the stuff that we've listened to so far, there's nothing from the three EPs. Oh, really? I thought Forklift was in there. Wait, do you mean the early ones? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What about Hackler Spray? Isn't that there?Track 1:[14:21] Hackler Spray is in the 93. It's on the top 100. It's on the top 100, but not the top 50. Oh, we're not going to the 100. Sorry, sorry, sorry. We're talking about 50, yeah. We're talking about 50, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I was going over those two a lot and being like, I don't know about this, but anyways. I saw that... Can I go on? I saw that Blackout was number 20. That's easily a top five for me.Track 1:[16:49] A top five definitely and I feel that song and paired with like Motion Suggest Itself and Father of a Sister of a Thought like these three are examples of Malkmus and the band, making up this like unique style when the music and the lyrics and the melodies and the performances are all put together somewhere between indie rock and alternative country but neither, and I don't know, it's so weary and so stoned and so depressed, and I feel like even if we listen to the stuff that was going on on Crooked and the stuff that was going on Bright in the Corners, similar songs like Lorraine's Live or Finn or something.Track 1:[17:37] There's this point in time where they made the songs, and just like Pueblo, and Grounded, for me, probably top five songs ever on an album, never matched in production, and resonance just the way it sounds, the way it feels with the lyrics I haven't done psychedelics and listened to those songs but it would just really crush my soul probably in a good way and I realized that going through and I'm really listening to it and I was like wow this is the best stuff that I, and I can't really, if you guys can give me an example of something that sounds similar I would love to hear it you know like Like, like, like if I could challenge you like that, I don't know. I know I like, I'm experiencing this different differently than you guys, but like really blows my mind.Track 1:[18:28] Like, yeah, I'm trying to think, but like, wow. He is an interesting record to try and find comps on. Right. Because it's so all over the place. Yeah. It's got elements of those first EPs. Like, I think those, you know, those burst songs that are anywhere from like a minute 30 to like two 10. You know, that almost feel incomplete, but they're still awesome.Track 1:[18:50] They're on there. And then you've got something like Father to a Sister of Thought. And then you've got, like, it's just so diverse. Yeah. Yeah. The reason I love Wowie Zowie is because it really feels like they piecemealed together a record that's just like super, like you said, diverse. Verse and it has a it has a very sort of like exile on main street or um yeah yeah i mean honestly that'd be my biggest comparison just in terms of like the spirit of the record because there's so many different things going on and so many different types of songs and even like, genres almost like yes some of it is really poppy stuff some of it is like they really harken back to like the early EPs on Huawei Zhaoyi.Track 1:[19:38] Yeah would you guys never just cut it down to like a 46 two-side record have you never thought about that i would love to know the the spiral like i hope someday that comes out did he want to do that he had a track listing at some point for the record that was about an 11 song record i think okay and uh i would love to know the sequence and i would love to know what didn't make the cut but that would be crazy would you guys not cut anything of it i would keep it exactly as it is yeah yeah i probably would too i'm i'm very much um i really think that they got their records right in terms of like the sequence of them and what songs were included on them like i love hearing you know the bonus releases that have come out that incorporate like like, unreleased songs or b-sides from singles or whatever, but I think the way they laid their records out is pretty perfect most of the time. Well put, well put, yeah.Track 1:[20:40] They're five records, and they're all different, and they're all very, very good, like, bordering on masterpieces if they're not masterpieces. Like, don't get me wrong, it's my ultimate favorite band, but I love to nitpick, you know, like... That's why you're here, buddy, that's why you're here. That's fun, yeah. I was happy to see You Are Light in the top 50 because I feel like that's a super underrated Terror Twilight song.Track 1:[21:12] It's definitely like the highlight of that record for me. So I was really happy that was on there. What do you guys think about that one? It's one of my favorites on that record, for sure. It made my top 70, definitely. And yeah, sorry, I went over the 50, I forgot. But yeah. Oh, that's okay. You're the light. That's a beautiful one. Definitely. It is. You are a light. I love the way it begins. I know that sounds very specific, but it's just sort of flipping on, kind of, you know? Yeah. Yeah, definitely.Track 1:[21:48] And whatever where where is that on the it was number 45 is you are light okay yeah so shoot the shoot the singer at 25 that for me is a top 10 what do you guys think oof yeah i mean all of the i feel like watery domestic songs are way up there for me i think he really they really found.Track 1:[22:14] What the band was about with those songs like yeah the singer i'm glad it's in the top 25 because i feel like some of the the ep songs like don't get as uh much traction with like newer, you know pavement fans like it took me a while after getting into them to listen to like the eps and stuff like that so glad that people are listening to it i think that's a great song what's interesting to me is you look at shoot the singer is 25 and then texas never whispers is 22 i would definitely flip those two yeah uh i love texas never whispers i think uh watery is, absolutely perfect it's it's even the even the outtakes from it greenlander etc are are uh so So Stark, um, they're, they're great songs as well, but, um, I like shoot the singer better. So yeah, it would be, it would be, it would have to be higher. I don't know where I could put it, but I feel like everything from watery could be in my top 15. Yeah. Like lions is 61. That's definitely a top 20. And yeah.Track 1:[23:30] Yeah, that's a great one. And it's also like you said, this perfection of this era. We have this super low, down-tuned guitar accompanying the bass that's barely audible, and then a slightly distorted guitar making all these single notes all over the place accompanying the vocals. And Malkomash is just nailing the vocals, and Gary is just nailing these drum fills, and the lyrics are great. And I don't know if I'm going too deep into it, but I feel like the lyrics on Watery, They are their own things. They are different from the lyrics on Crooked Rain and different from the lyrics.Track 1:[24:05] On Maui Sawi. It's amazing. I'm so glad we got this session because they were evolving so fast. And even like these extra tracks, like on the LA Desert Origins, we have like sessions from 93, like early Elevate Me Later and Rains Live and Grounded stuff. Stuff that's just like the band it's got gary it's got like some of it's got gary right yeah and then you can see the bands just doing different versions of these songs and just how, how full of magic they were back then you know just like i don't know just makes me realize how freaking great they actually are and were you know so yeah watery definitely absolutely yeah definitely up there yeah they found it yeah i one of my favorite things about gary's drumming um i play the drums and he really inspired me a lot because um he really leaned into like you don't have to play like a one four beat and keep it like you know a regular rock beat like he always kind of threw in some sort of like strange like instrumentation for keeping time and i think a A lot of the watery songs had that and a lot of the slanted songs had that.Track 1:[25:22] Um well think about his choice even his choices on on summer babe that that hi-hat that that like triple with the hi-hat like going into yeah like that's cool like that's innovative right like that sounds like something i haven't really heard that much definitely right that's yeah that's exactly what i'm talking about that sort of just like interesting unique spin on things that he did I don't know if you guys noticed I had to like my friend had to point it out to me on Loretta Scars when he's singing from now on I can see the sun he's just doing.Track 1:[26:00] On the hi-hat and the and the snare and nothing else a little bass drum, and I didn't notice like like just like you said super left field stuff but still fits so much that like you know oh yeah great great drummer rest in peace gary rest in peace that's right, now have either you guys had the chance to see the documentary no i wonder when it's going to come out like gary i got a i got a chance to watch it because i interviewed the director and he sent me a link so i could watch it but i assumed it would be out by now like i haven't i haven't talked about that on the podcast because don't they just go around these they have to go around for like sometimes a few months or something around these different, festivals. Right. Before that's true. Yeah. But yeah, definitely. Is it good? How is it? It was good. It was really interesting. He's an interesting dude, man. He's far out.Track 1:[26:59] Is it like a documentary style? It's a documentary, yeah. It's a documentary on his life, yeah. I wasn't familiar with Plant Man and the solo stuff that he did after Pavement, so that was really fun to get a chance to see. Interesting. Yeah. I'm not super familiar with that. Yeah. Me neither. It's really a poppy song, too. It's goofy, but it's sort of like, I don't know, it's really sort of mainstream-y, you know? All right you have to send it to me later yeah i'll do that yeah sure there's also this oh the movie like no no no no you can't do that obviously the song right yeah i was like wait a minute no i can't do that um but there's also this live action movie sorry like if i'm digressing too much that's okay we're here to talk live action with these actors like doing the yes yeah what do you think yeah have you seen any i'm i'm very excited about it um my understanding is that uh Tim Heidecker and Jason Schwartzman are playing two of the guys who started Matador. Their names escape me right now.Track 1:[28:08] And it's just kind of like, I think the original concept that I read about a couple of years ago was that it was going to be half documentary about the reunion shows. And then the other half was kind of like a retelling of how Pavement came together with actors. Um that's what i read at one point i'm not sure if maybe that has changed but um yeah i'm super excited about that because i love a lot of the actors that are involved with that um so yeah i can't wait me too uh like i want a release date and i want a trailer date like when are we going to get that man yeah and the guy who's playing marshmallows he's got this marshmallow chin in cuteness you know so um let's go to songs who are rated too high you know like since we are kind of or what do you think yeah absolutely drive the boat man drive the boat fin fin fin at 24, that's not in my top 70 for sure uh what do you guys think not in your top 70 nope, I was a little surprised to see that one that high also um.Track 1:[29:27] Yeah, by the time we get to number 20, by the time we get to number 24, you're sort of thinking, oh, maybe we're not going to hear Finn, you know, because it certainly shouldn't be much higher than that. I wouldn't put it inside the 20, but it would be in my top 40 for sure. For sure, for sure. Yeah. It's hard in rankings like this to not compare to other songs, because when I think of my favorite songs on Brighten the Corners, Finn isn't one of them. So I think that sort of mentally impacts how I view the list. I did think that just because of how incredibly influential and popular that single was, I did think that Cut Your Hair would be higher than 21. Me too. That was so surprising, wasn't it? People are sick of it. It's just that, right? People are sick of it. If that's the case, how come Harness Your Hopes is on the top 50? It shouldn't be. No, it would have been much higher if it hadn't gotten the resurrection.Track 1:[30:41] I think it would have been higher. Let me ask you, Alison, when you listened to Brighton & Cornish for the first time, was it the original 12-track album? Album i believe so i i didn't listen to um the full extended version that they released in like 2008 until a couple years ago i think so and that's your that's your favorite album jd am i right about that it is my favorite yeah and you but it floats it floats because i love crooked rain i love i don't you can't count watery but yeah i think because i got the deluxe edition and And then it's followed by the hacks and then it ends with like harness your hopes and roll with the wind. So I just kind of took it, you know, cause I was so new into the band. So I didn't really take fin as this end song. So it was kind of, I think that might have, you know, uh, interesting. It does work really well as like an end to the album, which was the intention, I believe. So, yeah. I still think it was I still think it was Anna SM.Track 1:[31:49] Flirting at that point with the idea I think so interesting point yeah, it would have been a good way to end it have you guys heard the 94 version there's like a live 94 version it's slightly more fast tempo no I kind of like that better they played it And like 94 life, it started on YouTube. Yeah. Oh, shit. It's like in Oklahoma or something. Maybe I'll play it during this podcast. I'll intercut it.Track 5:[32:27] We'll be right back.Track 5:[32:44] People, see where they're at Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, No one has the blues No one has the blues No one has the nights ¶¶, I don't want to be called in the middle Look what you say to me.Track 5:[33:55] No one has a clue No one has a clue No one has a clue No one has to do it, baby.Track 1:[34:27] What about Fight This Generation? What do you guys think about that? I thought that could have been higher for sure. That's one of my favorites. yeah one of my favorites can you tell me what you love about that song can you articulate it um i think that i like it um from like a mood perspective it feels like, uh it could be a soundtrack to a movie or something um the change about halfway through the song where Malthus is doing that riff and then the tempo kind of picks up. And then there's like this moment when Malthus's voice kind of cracks a little bit. And I think it's just like the coolest thing ever. It's when he goes like, fight this generation. I always thought it was funny a little bit, but it's, it's so cool. It sounds, it sounds really cool to me. So that's definitely like a top 10 song for me.Track 1:[35:33] Yeah, it feels like the part in the movie where something bad or scary is about to happen, but like in a really awesome way. So because I only real. Oh, sorry. When I went to see traditional techniques, the tour for that, it was just him by himself and his MacBook and that lovely blue guitar. And um he he played a version of fight this generation and it was so cool it was so low-key, uh like i struggled at the beginning to figure out what it was i was really high but i mean i was i was listening to it and i was like what is this i know this song i know this song and then all of a sudden you know when when when you hear sweet yardley it's like oh yeah all right cool and then it just makes you want to jump up and down right after that after we get that you know that we get sort of lulled into submission and then all of a sudden it's just like wham smack you over the head yeah yeah i definitely think that uh major leagues is a little high for me personally that was never never uh a favorite of mine i don't know it just like never really clicked with me. I love the music video, but it's just not my favorite song.Track 1:[36:58] But yeah, definitely. Going back, really, Malkmus is an underrated vocalist for sure. The way he can draw out his shit and just crack his voice and do whatever. It's like the next generation Lou Reed, but just a little cuter and a little more nuanced or something. And Lou Reed is probably my favorite artist besides Malkmus. So you know yeah he has a really he has a wide range like more than than a lot of other rockers that i could think of um he makes choices he makes choices that just aren't common as well, like if if there's two paths and one is the past that's the path that is well traveled,Track 1:[37:49] he often goes on down the other path and i don't think he does that to be you know um different or far out or whatever i think it's just he's really good on that other path he's really good but yeah he was also very lucky to team up with spiral and oh my god yeah and gary in the beginning and then mark and and bob and steve you know like yeah i mean on his own he would have been great but just Just imagine Paul McCartney on his own. He would have been good, but not.Track 1:[38:23] It's all a matter of chance, but what a great... So, hot take, Stop Breathing No. 28 doesn't crack my top 70 at all, you know. Top 70, he says again. There's actually, like I said, there's this version on the Crooked Rain, LA's Desert Origins Deluxe CD, the No. 2 CD, from a session recorded in early 93 at Gary Studios.Track 1:[38:50] The gritty version, do you remember that one? if you guys go and listen to the the second cd of the the deluxe version of crooked rain you can hear like a more gritty version of uh is that the egg eggshell version no no that's that's the actual version is the heaven is a truck this is like oh right yes you're right this is the first first question on that song and he's saying like stop he's instead of saying stop breathing he starts saying start breathing start breathing and then start bleeding and then he says dad now i know that you broke me and i'm like wow okay yeah that's uh i don't know maybe i've listened too much to the the first one you know but like i really i really love that session you like all my friends ls2 the the original elevate me later and you know that's a great great great session soon yeah i love that we have access to some of the um i don't know the sessions that didn't make it to the albums and you can see how the song progressed as they were writing it so yeah how the lyrics changed and sort of the arrangement could change over time and what do you guys think about all my friends being at number 64 i think that's a gem oh sorry that's not 50 oh god damn Yeah. Sorry.Track 1:[40:13] Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. You guys remember that one? Everybody's going. Yeah. Yeah. I feel, I feel that. Would that be in your top 70? That would be in my top 25. Okay. If, if, if they had taken those two first minutes, you know, and not gone into the second three minutes where it breaks down, because I feel like they started as this one. Of the best starts ever. Everybody's going out tonight, everybody's hanging out tonight, it's all right. Such a teenage nostalgia. And then when he starts shouting, I need it, I need it, and his voice breaks and the guitar is playing top.Track 1:[40:58] That's for me, it's one of the best shit I've ever heard in my life. But unfortunately, it digresses from pure genius Genius onto like a sub-part track. So that's why it's top 25 and not like... In your top 10. Yeah, definitely. I don't know. How do you guys feel about that song? I like that song a lot, but I don't know... I don't know that I have a lot of feeling about it one way or the other as to where I'd put it on even my personal list. And my personal list doesn't go much higher than 20 just because that would just make my head explode. That's why I feel like when you're saying top 70, I'm like, holy shit. Yeah, I tried just going through all of the songs and just putting them just for fun. And, you know, the top five are really easy. Top 10, fairly easy. Top 20. then the top 30 40 you can start interchanging them how you feel 50 60 70 they change between days i'm not saying that but i'm like throwing it out just like i say you know yeah i definitely think as we move from here into the top 20 it's gonna get really difficult because i um even just like looking at the way these are ranked sometimes it's like difficult for me to see how i would tier them because if i start thinking about them or i hear them then i might change my mind i don't know yeah about some of these well let's talk about this a little bit more then yeah allison um.Track 1:[42:27] Let's investigate a little bit more about what would be inside your top 20 what are you anticipating what are you looking forward to where do you think things will land based on what you've got so based on where we are um there's definitely some of my favorite tracks that are kind of missing from uh the list so far um and yeah i'm just curious what there is uh from there I'd love to see every song that they ever released on a list and then work back to see what's missing. Because looking at this, even just from 100 to 21 right now, there's a lot on there. So it's taken me a minute to think about what's missing. But yeah, I'm definitely hoping to see a lot more of like the early days in the top 20, just because I, you know, it makes me excited to think that people are appreciating like that era of pavement for sure. Like the early piece.Track 1:[43:40] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Always excited to hear people talking about those and listening to those. So, yeah. Yeah, between those and Slanted, which have been, you know, not represented very well so far in this bottom 30, I have to think we're going to, you know, start to peel that layer, right? Like, we've got to see some Slanted stuff in this top 20. Like, numerous, numerous songs. More crooked. Yeah. Definitely. Where does Summer Babe land for you guys?Track 1:[44:19] I definitely think it could be pretty high up for me. I mean, yeah, I love that song. To my top 15, absolutely, with a bullet. Yeah, top 10, definitely. It actually made things easy for me. I just downloaded the whole discography and put it into iTunes and fucked around with it for like two days. And that really, really put it into perspective. Because it's a lot when you see the list, it really jumbles up your mind. I was like, oh, you know, getting like kind of disoriented. So yeah, for sure.Track 1:[44:48] Yeah yeah summer babies on there what do you guys think about my friend i know never mind i was gonna go back into the what about our our singer is that is is that not in the top 50.Track 1:[45:00] No i don't think so no okay okay okay what about grave architecture that's number 32 two for me it's top 50 what do you guys think top 15 top 50 okay yeah i i think it belongs up here for sure that's such a catchy song oh yeah yeah that's a really good example of like the vocal register change like it hurts so rad and i'm fucking glad i i love that that's actually the part that really turns me off because i think the beginning when he says come on in that's also one of the best vocal melodies ever it's like three words and the way malchmus says these three words come on in it's one of the like top beginnings and songs ever but i feel like it kind of digresses for me with that pulled so red and i'm glad so yeah it's interesting to hear like different yeah you guys are so diametrically opposed there that's funny yeah yeah it is it is i i'm curious like in terms of where we're going um what i haven't seen that i was really surprised to not have seen yet is that we haven't seen um silent kid on here yet so yeah i'm definitely.Track 1:[46:21] Yeah me too i a couple years ago made a list of like my favorite songs of all time and that was on there, like pavement aside, that's definitely one of them. So I'm curious if that will show up. Did I ask you just for fun, where do you guys rank Blackout? Are you happy with 20? Where would you put it? Did you already tell me? No, I didn't tell you. I think it's fine at 20. Yeah, I think it's fine. You would have it higher? Like I said, top 5 definitely, all time. What about you, Allison? I'd probably I mean, it's a great song. But again, it's like thinking about other songs, it probably would get bumped down from 20 if I had like, all the song titles in front of me, right?Track 1:[47:11] Yeah okay cool but it's a great song yeah yeah definitely so what else are you looking for in the top 20 avar have we seen rattled by the rust no we haven't seen rattled by the rust no, rattled by the rust i mean frontwards definitely elevate me later one of my all-time favorites, you know i know rain still life is going to be there gold sound is going to be there the more obscure songs that I would love to have seen that are not on there are like, Passat Dream from Bread in the Corner the Spiral song that for me is also like kind of the like Lorehatter Scars it kind of brings out eons of kind of human civilization if that means anything it just like opens up my soul the way like how do you guys feel about that one Where's that? I like, yeah, I really like those two Spiral songs. And we've seen, I like a lot of Spiral songs, but I'm thinking from that record.Track 1:[48:14] We've seen Date with Ikea already, right? Where did it land? Yeah. 38. Do you guys think Pass a Dream is going to be there or not? In the top 20, what do you guys think? Which one? I don't know. Pass a Dream. dream it could be i mean a lot of this has surprised me yeah um yeah go on um i was gonna say i bet you like we'll see a little bit more of the wowie zowie songs too because like grounded's not on here yet um it doesn't look like father to a sister of a thought is on here so i'm i'm I'm curious if those will get pretty high ranking as we go on. Western homes. What do you guys think about that one?Track 1:[49:04] The closer to what we saw i'm not in love with yeah i'm not in love with it i'm not in love with it i think it's a fun song but it's not like a favorite song no of mine i never liked it but then i went back to the album before this podcast and he's like your western homes are locked forever it's like summing up this paranoia that's building up at the you know turn of the century kind of and the way it's i don't know i love that ending of the album for me you say with the eclectic while we saw it definitely agree there it's like a and kennel district at 23 what do you guys think about that did you like it that high i'm glad to see it there because i feel like and i'm talking about this like i don't know but i feel like unless we get painted soldiers, but painted soldiers is in the top 100 i think um yeah i don't know that we're gonna see another other spiral song like i'm more i feel like kennel district might be yeah his biggest might be the last spiral song we see i you know again i'm not tipping my hand but it's a really great fucking song and i'm trying to think are there spiral songs on record because preston school of industry is great um.Track 1:[50:22] Uh oh fuck what one am i thinking about what's the one that uh he and sm do the like the duet on like where they're back at four circa 1970 that's right 1768 yeah i think that's in the top 100 yeah that's 62 i i would knock that up to to a top 50 definitely me too i love that one love that one again especially because we've got both of them right we don't have very many where you get to hear no you know so yeah it's pretty rare i can't really think of another well there's maybe a couple but yeah i i love kennel district that's definitely my favorite spiral song, it's a great song i feel like if we were to ask a lot of people they would say that's their favorite spiral song and that's to me is the harbinger of like doom you know that that it's going to be the last spiral song i just think it's insane there are 100 songs on there and And Pass a Dream. There are so many subpar pavement songs on this top 100. And that to me is a real... I'm upset about that one. It's not on the top 100?Track 1:[51:26] No. Let me look and see if it's on the whole list here. That's what I'm saying. I'll tell you where it is. Because the whole list goes up to 121. Ah, really? Oh, wow. There was enough songs. So Western Homes. What about Perfume V at 58? Did you guys think it is? Yeah, yeah. Even if it's not, it's almost in the top 50. How do you guys like that one? I love that song. I think it probably, it's a good spot for it.Track 1:[51:56] Definitely like close to top 50 at least. It's a great song. Yeah. Okay. So I'll tell you what 100 through 105 was. Okay. So number 100 was Baptist Black Tick. number 51 or 101 was stare no sorry 101 was baptist black stick 102 was stare number 103 was pass a dream uh number 104 was platform blues and number 105 was from slate tracks maybe maybe okay so there you go i'm think jackal's the lonesome error that has to be in the top 20 What do you guys think?Track 1:[52:36] Jackals, false grace, the lonesome era. That's a spiral song. That's spiral singing. I got one holy life to live. That's peril. Yeah. That's not the top 50 for you. What about you, Alvin? Oh, no. You said top 20. I wouldn't be in my top 20. I said top 20. Yeah. Yeah. I think probably not top 20, but it's definitely up there. Okay. Okay. Cool. cool that's like that's like top top 10 for me probably i love that one that's what keep going, I was going to say, I kind of feel similarly about Fame Throwa, because that's some of my favorite drumming that Gary did. I thought that would be way up there.Track 1:[53:21] I thought it would be in the top 50 for sure. Where did that end? 79, yeah. I don't know there's something about some of these songs like I've been talking about maybe like an acetate about eons you know like the eons of human existence kind of like you know and like Jackals, Loretta Scars Our Singer like I feel like You fucking love Slanted don't you There's this energy, and like I said if I had to pick the best top five songs of an album I said like Blackout, Grounded, Motion, Pueblo, and Father of a Sister of a Thought. I could maybe pick five of Slanted. But these 10 songs for me, I don't know. I think it's why I love Pavement so much. It's to me on another level that no one has ever reached.Track 1:[54:16] Yeah. Agreed. And that's why we're all here. We love this band. What about Camera? that's not on the list camera is on the top it's on the whole list but is it it might be the last song camera yeah camera is so that's 120 119 118 okay yeah how do you guys like that one that's my top that's a top 40 for me oh i fucking love his voice in that song when he really when he's really squealing yeah you know i like that yeah but would it be in my top 50 no probably not though there are a lot of songs left though for me if i try to rack my brain i have a hard time kind of filling it out with the songs that are here it's going to be well so what you're saying is it's going to be a surprise and you're going to keep tuning in so that's good to hear yeah yeah Yeah. So I really want to thank you for joining me tonight to have this discussion, this roundtable discussion. Any final thoughts? Excited for the top 20. All right. Well, we'll kick into that next week. We'll see what our predictions. Yeah, we'll see where our predictions end up. Coming on Monday, song number 19.Track 1:[55:34] And we'll see who's, yeah, that's going to be a good one. That's going to be a good one. It's going to be surprising. My take from this is just like, made me realize just how much I fucking love Pavement. Like I said, I knew it was my favorite band. And I'm sorry if I've been going way too into the nitty-gritty of the shit that obscure stuff, but it really blew my mind for the last two days, really going back to these songs and being like, wow, okay, they really... And after all the music I've gone through throughout these years, after I listened to Pavement, they're still just always up there. And thank you for doing this, JD. Thank you for your work. Oh, thanks, man. Awesome, awesome. Thank you. Awesome it's a lot that means really really you know yeah it's just so cool to see like other pavement fans and just know that they're still you know super relevant inspiring yeah yeah yes yeah and it'll make a nest like how close are you talking to muskmus you think oh me yeah i did you did oh you didn't listen to the yeah you gotta listen to the whole hear it i didn't hear it which Which episode is that? I want to say it's, Oh God, I don't know. I don't know what happened, but I know that it happened on Valentine's day. It happened on Valentine's day of 2022.Track 1:[57:00] I think. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. I fulfilled my destiny. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. So anything you guys want to plug, anything that you have to plug, any projects that you're working on or anything online or anything like that. Allison, you mentioned you play drums. Are you in a band? I, uh, stay tuned. I don't have anything to plug just yet, but, um, yeah, hopefully we'll soon. Yeah, actually have a band that's going pretty good that I hope I can plug soon. Oh, awesome. I have a podcast called peeling the onion where I'm interviewing like musicians. So that's everywhere, like on Spotify and YouTube and stuff. So how many episodes? Yeah. Like seven. And I've talked to great people, like talk to looper low. The other day you know really he was awesome i talked to steve albini like february 20th so i was really lucky to get that one in and it's been like a lot of i'm talking to people i really admire you know what i mean so yeah i really taken the time to do like my homework so it's been a lot of fun for me because i love music as you guys can hear you know so cool so peeling the onion find that on podcast networks everywhere yeah and it sounds like a good one might be the One of the last interviews was Steve Albini, right? Yeah.Track 1:[58:23] Yeah. It's very sad because I was asking him like, so because I knew that he wanted to quit before he lost his hearing, you know? And he said like, I'm going to go on for like 10 more years. And, you know, like, you know, and it was just, and I know people who knew him personally and he was a really genuinely nice person and just such an influence on music overall. All like you guys know you know yeah so awesome yeah really nice to meet you guys you guys are really cool nice to meet you guys too yeah great to meet you too yeah all right stay cool that's what we got for you this week and wash your goddamn hands.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

jD and Brian Glaser get together this week on the Pavement Top 50 Countdown. They of course discuss Brian's Pavement origin story and then they reveal and talk about track 23 on the countdown.Transcript: Track 1:[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.Track 2:[0:02] A stone-cold classic. This is the eighth song on our list from Pavement's penultimate album, Bright in the Corners. At 24, it's in. Jamie, what are your initial thoughts about this song? I think I remember really liking it kind of when I, you know, when you buy Bright in the Corners, you put it on, you go through the album, and it feels like a sensible, good closing song. The name kind of gives it away.Track 1:[0:30] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band, Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.Track 3:[0:38] Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the result, choosing an abacus and a woman named Helen, who frankly looked kind of lost. How will your favorite song fare in the rankings? You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week we're joined by Pavement superfan, Brian from New Jersey. Brian, how are you doing, motherfucker? I'm doing alright. How are things in Canada? Things are just dynamite. the sky is bright blue the clouds are nice and fluffy it's sunny you know i'll take sunny even if it's a little bit below zero just uh rather than that gray shit that just you know ruins everything yeah how about you everything's great here yeah it's you know it's uh it's the weekend just getting to hang out i'm getting to talk about pavement yeah that's pretty good right, Well, let's do that then. Let's get your Pavement Origins story.Track 3:[1:52] So my Pavement Origins story, I feel like it is the most down-the-middle, ordinary one. But it's also, from listening to your podcast, it's essentially the inverse of yours. Okay. So I was a college radio DJ in the early 90s. And our college radio station, the music director, would call us into his dorm like once a week or once every other week uh all the djs would come in and he would have all of the recent releases and we would hit play and just see what was happening and what we might want to play on our radio shows and stuff like that and i remember.Track 3:[2:32] Slanted and enchanted dropping into this gathering and you know he hits play on summer babe um and And it was amazing. You know, I'm also, I'm a drummer, so I'm listening to this. And this great song, one of the hooks is the hi-hats. Yeah, that hi-hat wiggle or whatever you want to call it. What do you call that? I don't know. Wiggles as good as anything. But like, think of another song where like part of the hook is, you know, a little hi-hat flourish. So that blew my mind. And then, you know, Trigger Cut comes right after that. So I went from never hearing of this band to, you know, I'm in my, I'm probably like 19, sitting in a college dorm, listening to Slanted and Enchanted, and I am a billion percent in. Like, it's everything I like.Track 3:[3:30] It's everything I love. So, I was then just like, I was there for each record coming out, and I bought them as they came out. And I went to see the Crooked Rain tour, and I saw them on Lollapalooza, and I saw the Brighton the Corners tour. And I think by the time Bright in the Corners came out, I was a music journalist in Philadelphia. And I'm pretty sure I wrote a review of Bright in the Corners for somewhere.Track 3:[4:03] I bought Terror Twilight. So I bought all of them when they came out. I did not see – I missed the Terror Twilight show. I went to the other night of the matador anniversary show because the other one was headlined by Yola Tango and they're my number one I don't miss them uh and a buddy of mine went to the other one said that the pavement show that was when he had like the uh Malcolm has had the handcuffs dangling off of his microphone stand to show his displeasure um Um, And then, you know, after that, it just, it went from being a present tense thing to pavement went into past tense and I bought the reissues when they came out. Um, but I wasn't, when they got back together and we're playing in central park, I think my son had just been born. So I didn't go see that, but they were really just kind of a past tense thing for me. And then kind of two additional things happened. The first was the pandemic.Track 3:[5:16] And just because of the kind of music guy I am, when we got sent home to work remotely, I listen to music when I work from home and I like to set little projects or parameters for myself to make it interesting. I'll be like, today I'm only going to listen to songs that this drummer is on or whatever I'm going to do. Oh, cool. And since I thought we were just going home for like a month or two, I was like, I'm only going to listen to stuff I have on vinyl. No CDs, no streaming. It's just going to be vinyl. It'll make me stand up every 20 minutes and, you know, it'll just be like a fun little parameter because I have a bunch of vinyl, but it's not the biggest part of my collection. And the only pavement I had on vinyl, I had this extra live LP that Matador sold along with the Bright in the Corner, Nicene Creed's reissue.Track 3:[6:20] It's okay. But I also had Terror Twilight, which I had listened to. I bought it on vinyl, I listened to it, and I was like, eh, there's no spiral songs on here. It feels kind of clean. It just didn't connect. But by that time, I was listening to your podcast, and this was the only one that under my rules I could really listen to. So i listened to the shit out of terror twilight you know in 2020 so it had you know it'd been out and somewhere in the back of my head for a while but i really engaged with it um and so now i'm like all in on terror twilight all these years later and you know then they came back for their latter-day reunion shows. And my buddy and I turned 50 as they rolled into Brooklyn. And so we're like, and he lives not far from King's Theater, so we're like, we're going. And we went to one of the King's Theater nights in Brooklyn. And this is like the fourth or fifth time I've seen them. And, and, Suddenly, this was the best I'd ever seen them play.Track 3:[7:33] This is what I'm hearing. This is what I'm hearing about 2022. It was amazing. I guess I would describe when I went to those shows during the initial run, everyone was playing their parts as best they could, which was very good, but they were all just kind of doing their part of the band. Yeah. On this tour, they were together. I thought so, too.Track 3:[8:26] Enchanted in college when it came out. and we're looking at each other like we couldn't believe that this was the best pavement show we'd ever seen that's amazing it just didn't seem possible um right you know because that's not what reunion tours are for no not typically um and then i'll just add you know as part of my origin story it's been it's made me have a different extension of my origin story listening to you and the other people you have on the podcast who generally seem to have come in around Terror Twilight or even after the initial run.Track 3:[9:05] This may sound pretentious or silly or whatever you want to say, but it felt like you're not as invested in the narrative that popped up around Pavement in that initial run and that every record that came out was colored by the Pavement story. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. You know, because I think, especially with like Wowie Zowie Bright in the Corners and Terror Twilight, when those came out, They were part of like a reaction to what had happened the year before with them. And it was hard to listen to those just sort of on their own merits because you were listening to them as part of the narrative.Track 3:[9:50] And it's fun, like getting the chance to listen to them, not like that, sort of inspired by the way you're hearing them and your experience with them and the other people that you talk to. And it's really, it's changed my relationship with a lot of the records and a lot of the songs. Oh, wow. Do you have a specific example of a song? Well, I think I'll give an album example instead. The narrative of Bright in the Corners when it came out was, A, they got the shit back together after the wowie-zowie being all over the place. And also, everyone, maybe especially people who are music journalists, were very into the R.E.M. Connection because of the production. So I was sort of talking myself into hearing REM in that record, you know, because I'd heard Unseen Power, The Picket Fence, and I knew that they had REM's producers and all that. So I was like, I listened to it as their REM record. I've never thought of that. That's great. Yeah. Great. Well, and now I can just listen to it as, you know, here's some amazing Spiral Stairs songs and here's the band really playing together. Like that one might be the closest to how they're sounding now.Track 3:[11:18] That's a good call. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. So yeah, so that's an example of how it's changed here, getting out of the narrative. I'll also say something that colored my initial run through Pavement, and I don't think I've heard you talk about this before, is when they were at their initial peak, they were this huge and overwhelming influence on like indie rock so like i remember i was at maxwell's the week that crooked rain coming out not seeing pavement but just another band with you know two distorted guitars and a slacky attitude or whatever and in between all their songs they They talked about Crooked Rain.Track 3:[12:08] That was their stage banter. It was so... Are you serious? Yeah. It was just when Pavement did something, this small but invested community talked about it. And I remember getting the CD to review from this band called Number One Cup that no one's ever heard of. They didn't last very long. I think they only put out like one or two records. And the first song on the album, I remember kind of digging it, but feeling like it felt really familiar. So I'm playing it a few times. And I realized you could sing the lyrics to Summer Babe to this song. And they were essentially just making Pavement songs. They were completely ripping them off. Well, I don't think they were ripping them off. I think they were influenced too heavily. That's so nice. But that's the thing is like Pavement was this huge influence because-Track 3:[13:17] A lot of the other things happening at that time were, strangely enough, when you go back and listen to the Pavement catalog, was a lot noisier than Pavement.Track 3:[13:29] Archers of Loaf, Sonic Youth, Super Chunk, all that stuff, those are louder and punkier than Pavement for the most part. I'm not saying Pavement had a clean sound or anything like that. No, but Crooked Rain is pretty straightforward, you know, and then, like you said a moment ago, Bright in the Corners is, I don't understand how that didn't sell a jillion copies, you know? I know. It's such a good record. Not that the other ones aren't, but it's like mainstream good. Yeah i i mean i think my if i'm putting my critic hat on i think the answer to that is they chose the wrong single um stereo is a weird single right um i don't think anyone hearing that would be like get that right on the radio and you know this is my new pop thrill here right maybe start with shady lane yeah uh start with shady lane something like something like that, could have done it, but also I mean, honestly, cut your hair was a fluke, and I think it created this idea that Pavement could have hit singles, and maybe that just wasn't true.Track 3:[14:50] That's fair. Do you think it's true? Do you think they could have been a hit singles band?Track 3:[14:59] There's just some song every once in a while you hear it's not like father to a sister of thought um like i can see that being in like, like on a tv show like playing in the background near the end of the show and you know they're wrapping things up but no i suppose you're right few and far between there you know there's a There's a few that you can look at and say, okay, yeah, yeah, this has got the makeup of a mainstream hit song. But you're right, not many, because they were doing things that were very different than the mainstream. Very different. Yeah, and I remember going to the Lollapalooza when they were on the main stage. And you've seen the videos of people throwing mud at them and stuff like that. But part of the problem was that stage was just too big for them at that point. They can do it now, but I don't think they were ready for that.Track 3:[16:03] And you saw that show, you said, right? Not the one with the mud. I saw them in Camden, New Jersey on the Lollapalooza, you know, on that tour. And was it apparent there as well? Like it just. Yeah. Cause you know, I, I was sitting out on the lawn. It's, you know, it was touring those kinds of sheds where there's the seats up front and then a big lawn in the back and it's a summer day and you got your little pick a a mcbasket and your blanket and all that and it didn't really translate that far back in.Track 3:[16:35] A way that you know like cypress hill and sonic youth and even back who were on that tour like it translated into the bigger venue and they didn't wow that is wild stuff and i mean i don't mean that as a criticism no i think it's just you know it was the superpowers they had at the time it was you know it was more intimate um and it was you know again i don't think they had whatever it is that they've gathered up with age wisdom whatever you want to call it at this point where they can go out and you know jam on the hex or whatever for 10 minutes um and really make it work i don't think they had that in their arsenal yet no i suppose you're right.Track 3:[17:32] Yeah touring wasn't wasn't their strong strong point you know and yet it was fun and yet every show you saw or every every show that i've ever heard people talk about was amazing you know Because of the venue and because of the context and that good stuff. Yeah. And I mean, it could also be that part of their target audience is, you know, guys like me, guys like you who are, you know, ready to have that rush of emotion from, you know, from the experience that, you know, in our 20s or whatever was just kind of maybe we weren't mature enough for or open enough to. Yes. Yes. Well, should we flip the side here and talk about song number 23? Let's do it. Okay, we'll take a quick break and we'll be back with song number 23.Track 1:[18:35] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening. And now on with a countdown.Track 3:[21:47] Well, there it is on the Top 50 Countdown. Song number 23 is the Spiral Stairs Gem, Kennel District. Brian from New Jersey.Track 3:[21:59] Give me the goods. This is ridiculously underrated. I'm going to say this one's top five. Well, or I'll caveat that. Either this or Date with Ikea, which in my mind, they're kind of, they're like, fraternal twin songs um you gotta have a spiral song in the top five like the pavement founding documents say this is a band founded by sm and spiral stairs and if that top five is all, coming out of malchemist i think you've done something wrong you know and if you're gonna have a spiral song in the top five i i would do this one um it's it's amazing i mean it was It was a lot of fun on the reunion tour. Yes. And that's, you know, I remember the night I went to King's Theater, they did not play Summer Babe and they did not play Here, but they played Kennel District. And I remember having like my little list of songs in my head that I was going to be bummed if I walked out and they didn't play. And that was one of them. But they tore it up. It was like it was a highlight of the show. Wow. Yeah, that's great.Track 3:[23:17] And, you know, one of the things, you know, I mentioned earlier, I'm listening to this a little bit as a drummer. One of the things I hear in the song, and I'm curious if you hear this too, I think it's a Gary drum beat in this tune.Track 3:[23:34] Really? Yeah, it's got that little off-kilter stumble. It's not evenly distributed beats. It kind of lurches a little bit as it's going forward. I hear it as Westy playing a Gary beat rather than playing Westy style on this. You know, there's something to that, because in my conversations with Spiral, and then the tracks that ended up, I think, on the Nicene Creators edition, where it's just Gary and Spiral doing songs. Maybe it was around Terror of Twilight time, actually, where it was them doing songs. And, uh...Track 3:[24:30] You know scott's always had a a pretty big place in his heart for gary you know so i wonder if you know in in creating the song even he was like westy can you give me something garyish you know yeah that's interesting it's there and you know i think the other reason i i love the song is like even though this is you know halfway through the catalog in in wowie zowie i don't know I know that this would have been completely out of place on the early EPs. So it's got that overdriven driving guitar. It's got the Gary beat. It's got the distorted vocals, but then the sing-along or shout-along refrain that carries you out. Like, it's, you know, if you place this next to, you know, on the same seven inches debris slide, I don't think you'd be like, one of these was recorded many years later, and I can hear it so clearly. You know, I think they're akin. It's got a little bit more sheen, obviously. Yeah. Yeah, but it's like the ingredients and the style are classic pavement rather than ladder pavement or whatever you want to call it. Right, right.Track 3:[25:56] Yeah, I think if you have a beat on what it could be about. No, like this. Like any pavement song, too tough, right? Right. It's too tough. And this one is even like I was doing a little internet trolling for the lyrics. Like the internet doesn't even agree what these lyrics are. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, I found, you know, especially the first line of the second verse, you know, I found the one I've got up on my screen right now says, I can't believe she's married to Roe, like fish egg Roe. I have too. And there's no way it's that. And I remember just in Googling a little, I found a couple other theories, but I find that hard to believe that's the lyric. Yeah, me too.Track 3:[26:53] Maybe that's why he's so incredulous. You can't believe it. Yeah, maybe. I also know that there's a lot of songwriters, and you've talked to Spiral a lot, so maybe he's given you some more insight into his process. But I know when you hear from a lot of songwriters, they talk about laying down the track first and just kind of putting some nonsense sounds or lyrics over it. And then some people will sit and write something very considered and serious when they go to do the lyrics. And then some people be like, oh, I almost said the word robe there. I guess I'll just stick with it. I wonder if that's what happened here.Track 3:[27:37] Yeah, because it's an interesting song because you're right. I don't quite know what it's about, but it makes me feel something. Because of the chorus. Um whatever you want to call it why didn't i ask why didn't i ask why didn't i ask and then going out there's something really like almost painful about that question you know like you really feel for the protagonists here like yeah what the fuck man why didn't you ask and what were you asking about and why is it important to you and all the rest but at the very least can Can you answer me the question? Why didn't you ask? Right. And then the delivery with the guitars, the beat, the buildup, you're not only singing along about regret, but you're doing it with your fist in the air. You're just like, you're all jacked up about regret. And there's nothing not to love about this song. Yeah. It's a good one.Track 3:[28:47] And I'm kind of curious. Chris, I know you've talked to Spiral a lot. Based on the sort of relationship you've built up with him over the last few years, do you have a sense of what he goes for in his songwriting, like how he's expressing himself? Yeah.Track 3:[29:09] It's really changed, I think. I think that his vocal has become much more of a tool. He used to sort of sing with that almost break, almost that pubescent break when he sang, and now his voice is sharp. It is right on. So I think he takes advantage of that a little bit more when writing a song, not lyric wise, but when he's writing a song in general, like he can be more melodic. And that's nice. Like that medley attack is a great record. It's a really good record. I'm going to listen to it today because it's really good. And then of course i i just can't help but draw the parallel between terror twilight and let it be.Track 3:[30:02] With paul and john completely shutting george out of the process and then george turns around and comes out with all all things must pass and it's holy shit it's a double record filled with some of the best songs you've ever heard and he had that in him and spiral came out with psoi and And while it's not all things must pass, it's holy shit, you were sitting on all these songs and you couldn't put one on fucking Terror of Twilight? You know? Yeah. And you know, I think one of the reasons I didn't connect with Terror of Twilight at the beginning is...Track 3:[30:39] Spiral to me is that the actual analogy i would use is lee ronaldo in sonic youth oh okay when you have those sonic youth records like you know obviously thurston and kim are the marquee and core sounds in there but like daydream nation without eric's trip and without hey joni it's not the masterpiece that it is without those and the lee ronaldo songs like Like they fit in the band, but they're a little off to the side of the rest of it. And, you know, it's super melodic and it's fun, but it's not what Thurston and Kim do for the rest of the record. And you're always like, when that, you know, when Moat or Disappearer pops up, I think those are his two on Goo.Track 3:[31:29] When those pop up on Goo, you're like, yeah, here we go. We're hearing Disappearer now. Now um did do i have that right that disappears the you're asking the wrong dude i'll have to do a sonic youth uh podcast at some point i mean initially that was my like i had a blind spot with early pavement i had a blind spot with the eps um like the three eps and so i thought well i'll do a podcast where i listen to each ep and you know talk about the ep and i was like well why don't i just do it like song by song you know and then that way i get to listen to everything thing and that's that was the genesis of this little beast yeah and i think you know with sonic youth you'd have the same experience where you know you're moving along and it's the songs you're used to and then this this gem pops up that's you know of a different color and a different tone a different palette and i think that's what spiral brings to these pavement records yeah i would agree with that and the shows like when you get that spiral break when kennel district comes out or date with ikea you're like yeah fuck yeah here we go we're doing this now yeah and we'll get back to that that malchmus thing but it's a great um like i i don't want to say interlude because that's not maybe it's like a great counterpoint.Track 3:[32:50] Yeah there's a bit of yin and yang right yeah absolutely sorry well uh i'll just repeat that my dogs are both in here yeah there's a bit of yin and yang right yeah absolutely, and you know being a fan of the Spiral songs doesn't make you less of a Pavement fan or even less of a Malchemist fan it's just, he's one of the main ingredients again it's this band was started by SM and Spiral Stairs so without him it's not Pavement right, I couldn't yeah I couldn't agree more.Track 3:[33:27] Well, Brian from New Jersey, do you have anything that you would like to plug or discuss with people on the World Wide Web? I guess the only thing I'll plug, I was playing drums in a band here in New Jersey that is now defunct. It went away with the pandemic, but we have stuff up on Bandcamp and everywhere. It's called Diecast Cars.Track 3:[33:52] Diecast Cars. Yeah, like the toy cars for kids. It would appeal very much appeal to fans of pavement we are noisy and a little sloppy but a little poppy and a little rocky and all that kind of stuff and uh the the guitars are loud and and we also have the one of the guitar players you know didn't write as much as the other but he's like he's the spiral the ronaldo of a die-cast cars and that he's got you know two or three things in the what we have on the band camp page and their gems um you know not not to take away from the other guy but you know when they come up you're like okay we're getting we're getting into a different frequency for a few minutes and then we'll we'll go back to that other one cool well check out diecast cars on band camp everybody it's been great talking to to you today brian from new jersey uh you've you've got some wild theories and um some theories that i can actually cleave on to and uh kennel district again at number 23 so this is a lot of fun man too low a lot of fun so uh take care and uh we'll talk to you soon brian and everybody else wash your goddamn hands thanks.Track 1:[35:17] For listening to meeting malchus a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you if you've got questions or concerns.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week on the podcast jD welcomes David Fieni to the show to discuss his Pavement origin story and then they crack the top 25 with song number 25 on the countdown!Transcript: Track 2:[0:00] Previously on the pavement top 50.Track 1:[0:02] This week we are celebrating song number 26 fight this generation what do you think of this one jeremy from the falls this is probably it bridges like the the best run i think that pavement has on any album.Track 2:[0:21] Hey this is westy from the rock and roll band pavement and you're listening to the countdown countdown.Track 3:[0:29] Hey, it's JD here back for another episode of our top 50 countdown for seminal indie rock band, Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and a bong made out of a kumquat. How will your favorite song fare in the rankings? Rankings you'll need to tune in to find out so there's that this week i'm joined by a pavement super fan david from new york dude how the fuck are you i'm fucking great i'm psyched to be here chatting with jd oh that's cool another uh pavement super fan yeah yeah absolutely are you uh are you did you make your pre-order for the box set or are you going to i'm going to i'm just like Like, it's crazy because it's like one of those things, I think a little bit like you, I've started, I sort of came to Pavement when, that was like my shift to CDs. And I got all of their stuff on CDs. And then I only started getting the vinyl in the last couple of years. Yeah. And so literally just before this, I ordered my last piece, which was Watery Domestic. What a cool, yeah, Watery Domestic. And then the singles thing looks just freaking amazing.Track 3:[1:50] It does yeah i'll order it uh the shipping to canada is obscene though it's like 60 bucks u.s to ship to canada which is like that's not right that's probably 80 bucks uh a canadian you know so it's like it's like half the cost of the product yeesh i don't know so david let's uh not beat around the bush here let's get right into things you mentioned compact discs and your collection. Tell us about your Pavement Origins story and getting those compact discs. Well, J.D., when I was four years old, Billy Corgan murdered my parents.Track 3:[2:31] Actually, that's not true. So I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I was right in the – I would have been – if I wasn't such a prick and, like, took myself too seriously, I would have been right in the midst of, like, the beginnings of pavement. Wow. But all the people around me were, like, saying, you know, I was reading stuff, how great pavement was. And I was like, oh, fuck that shit. I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon, the indie bandwagon. And so I didn't really get into them until maybe 1996. Okay. Which is, you know, they're still – they're peaking as they usually did. And so I don't remember if it was Bright in the – no, it was Crooked Rain was definitely the thing that kind of just sucked me in for life.Track 3:[3:19] And then Bright in the Corners. And I'll tell you a quick story about in 1997, I went to Rolling Stones concert. Pearl Jam opened up the Oakland Coliseum. And I drink a lot. And I got about an hour of sleep. And the next day I had, because of lack of sleep, I asked the girl out in my class that I had a hard crush on to go out for coffee. We talked for like three hours. And then I actually ended up marrying her. I've been married for 24 years with her, to her. But after that coffee, I rode my bike over to my friend Walter's house, and he was playing some records, and he put on Slanted and Enchanted. And I have like the strongest memory of listening to here on his little dinky turntable. So I got into the band like 96 and 97. I saw them at – where was it? The Warfield.Track 3:[4:16] Where's that? And that's in San Francisco, yeah. And then I saw them in 99 for Terror of Twilight. And I've seen Jicks and Pavement and stuff since then. And I did see them in Philadelphia this last time around with my friend Seth. So that was freaking amazing. Loved that. So, yeah, I mean, they're kind of like a second wave band for me because I was into stuff like R.E.M. and The Replacements and Husker Du and all of this stuff. And then I got into Pavement and it's kind of like a, you know, it's something that stuck with me. And it's definitely a pretty hardcore relationship. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly what you mean. So talk to me about your first real-time record then was Bright in the Corners, right? If you got in in 96, Bright in the Corners comes out in 97. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I think, yeah, it must have been Bright in the Corners.Track 3:[5:20] And that's still... I mean, the thing is about the records is like I think that each of them has been a favorite at a different time, including including Terror Twilight, which when it came out, I just I love that record. It's obviously it's like a shift in a different direction in some ways, but it's it's so fucking brilliant. And I just can't, you know, I love all of the all of the records. I'll tell you, I'll come back to that later, but there was an interesting hole in my collection until fairly recently that I'll tell you about. All right. Yeah. So you saw them in Philadelphia on the reunion tour. What did you think this time out? Dude, it was like bliss for me. I was just, I was like smiling the whole time, which is probably exactly the opposite of what I did the first times I saw them when I was, you know.Track 3:[6:20] I thought I was fucking cool or something. But this time I was just grinning the whole time. And, you know, I know you've seen a bunch of the shows. People are singing along, which is like not a super pavement-y thing, but it totally was great. And also a cool thing was that my friend Seth, he has his son and some friends of his. They're all into pavement, and they're like this new generation coming up. And so they were there. And that's obviously so cool because it makes me think of like, oh, when I was growing up and I was into like the bands from the 60s or something, you know? Yeah. Like it's like a cycle, you know, that goes on. What do you think pulled him in? Was it osmosis from his old man or was it Harness Your Hopes or what's the deal? Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I think it's people who want music that doesn't suck, that's not corporate music, that is just fucking cool and original. And it just, you know, there's a thing that Malcolm has said in this, I think recently, someone asked him, like, why are you going to make another record? And he's all, no.Track 3:[7:33] He said, the songs exist in the present, which I love that. I mean, it's such an obvious, simple statement, but it's also true, right? The songs exist in the present. And so each time you sing it, that song is going back out. Each time you play a record, it's existing right in that very moment. So it's like, I just think there's the music just, the music stands out. Maybe, you know, maybe the whole Harness Your Hopes thing kind of brought in a few people. But, you know, it's just, it's a good, it definitely made me slightly hopeful for the future.Track 3:[8:10] Harness Your Hopes definitely harnessed my girls, my two girls. Oh, yeah. They're both big TikTokers, and I guess that's where they saw it. But my daughter will brag to me that she's got Pavement in her playlist. I think she's got one other song, but I don't know the song. Yeah. I'm guessing it's something like Major Leagues or something. That one, I guess. Yeah, my 12-year-old daughter loves Harness Your Hopes, but she listens to Pavement. I put stuff on. I make playlists for her, and so she gets into that stuff. You raised her well. I know, at least in that respect. Yeah. So what is your go-to record at this point? I know you said that they're all, you know, they've all taken a turn as your favorite, but if you're feeling nostalgic and you want to hear something, which one do you go to?Track 3:[9:02] Um, I don't know. You know, I think maybe Crooked Rain is going to be the one. Crooked, both Crooked Rain and Bright in the Corners. Fellow Bright in the Corners lover. Is this right? Yeah. There's not that many of us.Track 3:[9:18] It's a great record. it is a great record but you're right crooked rain is what is it it's it's almost like it feels timeless like it doesn't feel of the 90s yeah to me uh production wise the low the low fineness of it um it just doesn't have that same 90s production you know that we're that we were so inundated with uh from seattle you know yeah that's right i mean the whole issue of production is is like such an interesting thing to going from like gary yeah as the producer yeah and um and then through the different iterations of different folks and obviously terror twilight has its own story but yeah i mean i think that's part of it like and you and you go back to those early like demos and stuff and it's just they are just fucking around with sound a lot of the time right and um yeah i was listening to i was listening to the because they're streaming the the singles collections you know they are yeah yeah i was listening to that today and so i was just like a song like a song i don't like just put on is it the k dart song or internal k dart internal k dart yeah which is like It's like.Track 3:[10:38] It's not like a fully formed human, you know, being, it's like a sonogram, but it's still beautiful, because you can hear spiral and SM, like kind of experimenting with sounds and how they're going to play off each other and just textures and stuff. And so, you know, that stuff is, is, is really important, obviously.Track 3:[11:03] I love your analogy. It's a sonogram. That's brilliant. It will be fully formed at some point, slanted and enchanted. But early on, on Demolition Plot, it wasn't necessarily. You're right. It was more foggy, primordial ooze, I call it. I like your sonogram-ness. That's very cool. So is there a single in the box set, one of the seven inches that you're looking most forward to?Track 3:[11:34] I don't know. I have to look at it again. But I think it'll be, you know, the singles have a number of songs on each side, as far as I understand. So I'm looking forward to kind of just having a different, because it gives you like a different entry point into the catalog, right? Yeah. Because you're listening to these singles, and then some of the B-sides, and then some of these other tunes. And so, yeah, it was interesting listening to the Summer Babe. It sounds like the vocal is mixed differently from what I'm used to. I mean, the whole thing. I guess they're all remastered, aren't they? Well, I think they are. But on the Summer Babe 7-inch, that's the one with Baptist Black and Mercy Snack, I think. I think so. It's not the winter version. That's the designation. On Slanted, it's the winter version. This is the original, you know, the original. As far as I understand. Right, that makes sense, because it was the single that came out right before. Yeah. Yeah. So it might have had a little bit more work on it on the winter version. So good ear. Good ear on you. Do you want to get into this and flip the record and talk about the song number 25? Let's do it. All right. right let's do this we'll be back right after this hey.Track 2:[13:04] This is bob nastanovich from payment thanks for listening and now on with a countdown 25.Track 3:[16:28] Song number 25 is our first entrant from the masterpiece, Watery Domestic. It's Shoot the Singer, One Sick Verse. David from New York, what are your initial thoughts about this song?Track 3:[16:43] Shoot the Singer, I think it's probably one of Pavement's most perfect songs. If you just listen to it, the textures, it's such a beautifully textured song. And the production is pretty unique, I think, for them. It has this really, I think it must be, this is the Water Domestic is where Ibold and Bob join the Spiral One SM and Gary. And I don't know exactly who's playing on what and all that, but I'd like to think it's Mark. And that bass, it kind of has this kind of cool buzzing sound. It reminded me of Us from Piglib, but then I listened to it, and it doesn't really play out. But it's just a cool kind of – the bass is kind of – has a beautiful sound. It also has – and I don't think I even noticed this until listening to the song a bunch in prep for this. It has a really – what sounds very much like a really perfectly kind of mixed acoustic guitar in the back, but really kind of mixed in just so and you know and that's just like one of the things so like and they have the the verses that have this beautiful kind of more kind of relaxed mellow.Track 3:[18:08] Tone and you hear again like really nice interplay with spiral and and malchmus and then you get to i don't know if they're really choruses but it's like slow it down song is sacred and you know Those two – and then the distorted guitar comes in, and it's really such a cool contrast with the –, and then it goes back to the sort of more little chill verses. And then it has that outro, which is freaking – it's so good. It's just – it's a cool thing because it –.Track 3:[18:45] So, again, one of the lines that stands out in the song is, slow it down, song is sacred. And you hear Malkmus sing, and his vocalization is super, it's really beautiful on this song. I think it's one of his best, really, performances in some way. And it's really kind of, there's like an urgency to it that is not always there, but that's not what you want for every song. And in the end, it kind of is like, it doesn't technically slow down, but it kind of is like he's slowing it down and trying to get more out of the song. And he wants to stay in the music and there's the la da da da da da da and um which made me think about so this is shoot the singer it's a song that has references to music in its title and, maybe a little bit in the song and then it made me think of other songs like cut your hair has that kind of you know the non non words but vocalization right right so a lot of the and And that's another song that's about music. So it's like I feel like there's a few others that I can't remember now that have. So Pavement songs that sort of have like music themes or songs about songs or whatever, they seem to often go into that, you know, la, la, la kind of shit, which is really cool. It's kind of like pure music without, you know, without words or something.Track 3:[20:02] I don't know. This song, I just, it's such a beautiful song. And obviously Water Domestic is, you know, such a, like, masterpiece. And I, dude, I owe you, like, a massive, I owe you massively because I, super fan that I am, you know, I've seen them a bunch. And I had everything. And I was into, I had gotten, like, Westing and all of that stuff and listened to that stuff before I discovered in the last, like, five years. Don't fucking mock me, dude. Watery Domestic. And it was because listening to Meeting Malkmus. So somehow I had seen that fucking rooster, right? I had seen that rooster, but I had never, I had never like listened. I mean, I think I must have heard a song or two, but I was like completely oblivious. And so that's like such a joy to just discover what's. What a cool thing to find that. Yeah. It's and it's, you know, in large part to your, you know, your podcast. So thank you. Well, I'll take the feedback. I love it. But I think that it's important, because I came to Pavement late as well, as well as your situation with this record.Track 3:[21:23] To me, it's an absolute bonus to, in the midst of loving a band.Track 3:[21:35] Uncovering something that you didn't know about, and you're listening to new music that is old, if that makes any sense. Yeah, right. And it's right in that sweet spot, right in the pocket of slanted and crooked rain, right? So, what a fertile period. Yeah, it's peak.Track 3:[21:52] It's total peak pavement. And it's interesting, too, because it's like Gary's last stand, and you listen to it. And I think in some ways, all the love in the world to Westy, right, who just is great. I love him. But like in a certain sense, like Gary, at least at this period, his playing was more like pavement-y. You know what I mean? Sure. It's a little bit more rickety, slapdash, and kind of I hate to say slacker or whatever, but it kind of like it really fits in. Of course, they kind of, Westy kind of you know it's a it's a slightly different direction but i mean i love i love you know i love them both but you know this so this so that ep so it's the cool thing is like i have no nostalgia about the record i just listen to it it's right now it's happening and i you know get into it but um i feel like it's a song that has two standouts and that's front words and Shoot the Singer. Yeah. But they're set up perfectly with Texas and Lyons, Linden, right? Because it's just such a perfect little sequence. You can't get a more perfect EP out there.Track 3:[23:12] And, yeah. So the other thing that I wouldn't mind mentioning is, so I grew up 50 miles away from Stockton. Gee whiz. And so, like, it's hot and boring. And, like, those songs, like, Lions Linden especially, but also, like, Summer Babe and a few others, they totally evoke that landscape of, like, bored people.Track 3:[23:40] Kind of just like, you know, like suburbia. It's kind of like a little bit almost beyond suburbia in some ways. It's kind of this, you know, every street a straight line, all of that stuff. And then there's the Delta and the girl mixing a cocktail with a cigar, all that shit, you know? So it's like very evocative of that whole landscape. Escape yeah i mean i i can't say enough about this ep uh like you mentioned their standouts but i would have it's sophie's choice yeah to pick yeah to pick the number one and i would include lions linden and texas never whispers in in that yeah for sure um it's just so goddamn good And even when you listen to Lux and Redux and you get Greenlander and I forget the other two right now because I'm an asshole, but even those outtakes from Watery are spectacular. Yeah. Oh, I know. Greenlander is another one of those sleeper ones that's such a freaking cool song. Yeah. Definitely. Where do you think in the scheme of things this song was rated 25 so right at the halfway point.Track 3:[25:04] Do you think it's overrated, underrated, perfectly rated? What do you think? I think – I'm glad it's not any lower. Me too. Because I would put this in the top 10, 15 for me for sure. Of course, it changes all the time, like whatever. But I think 25, it's fine. I'm not going to go on a rampage. I'm not going to go on a rampage, J.D., against your fans. Did you vote? I didn't vote. You know, I saw the call, and then I meant to, and then I didn't. So many people have reached out and said, oh, man, I missed this. Yeah. There was enough to make this 100% valid, let me tell you. Yeah, yeah.Track 3:[25:55] Dude, that's what I got. How about you? Is there anything you want to plug or mention? Listen to the Bug Club, man. They're amazing. They opened up for a pavement in the UK a few dates, and I got into them from that, and they've just become one of my favorite bands. The Bug Club from Wales. I don't know, that and Permanent Ceasefire. That's about it. Okay. Well, that's cool. I like giving the tips. That's nice. That's what we've got here. Song 25. Stay tuned next week when we cover song 24. In the meantime, thank you so much, David from New York, and be sure to wash your goddamn hands.Track 1:[26:39] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcolmists, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you. If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email. JD at Meeting Malcolmists dot com. You.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

jD hangs with Stephen on today's episode of the Top 50 Countdown. First, as usual, he shares his Pavement origin story and then reveals song 27!TranscriptTrack 1:[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. You can exhale now because track 28 is Stop Breathing. Amir, what are your initial thoughts about this song? I love this song. It appears in my Top 20 that I sent you. I think it's number 14 there. So it's half of your number. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and.Track 3:[0:22] Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown. Hey it's jd here back for another episode of our top 50 countdown featuring seminal indie rock band pavement week over week we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots i then tabulated the results using an abacus and some fucker named gene how will your favorite song fare in the ratings well you'll have to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by Pavement superfan, Stephen. Stephen, how the fuck are you? I'm very good, JD. How are you? I'm doing quite stellar, in fact. It's a good day to be breathing and upright, you know? It is. It is. Spring's in the air. You know, winter's gone. Things are looking up. Funny enough, it's snowing here today. First, you know, we've passed spring. We didn't get any snow at all. And then, you know, it turns into spring and all of a sudden we've got snow. So, you know, who can fucking tell?Track 3:[1:30] No, no, but yeah, thanks for having me on. It's like we said before, just before we started, I've been listening to the whole countdown so far. And, you know, it's been great. It's a nice little pick me up on the Monday morning when it drops. And it's a good feeling to think that, you know, there's going to be one a week for the whole year pretty much. So, yeah, I've been really enjoying it. Well, thank you so much. That means a lot. So let's get, you know, let's make this about you now and let's get right into your Pavement Origins story. Yeah, okay, yeah. So, I mean, I'm 42 now and I got into Pavement when I was about... Sort of 15 16 so it was basically when uh terror twilight came out.Track 3:[2:19] When i was a teenager i was really into radiohead at the time i mean i still am but uh, they were they were my band at the moment so i was obsessively into everything that they did and i would read all the interviews and you know get every release and bootleg and ep and thing that came out uh from that band and i remember i was on holiday once and uh i picked up a music magazine in the airport on the way over and there was a a big article in there about pavement and the terror twilight release um and i'd kind of heard of them a little bit uh i kind of knew off them but it was always but they were always sort of mentioned in the same breath as um, the fall and john peel and things like that and so yeah in my mind i kind of built them up as a kind of scary alternative loud punky i don't know abrasive sort of band that was sort of unlistenable, um and i kind of remember at the time also around that time in the 90s um blur brought out their uh.Track 3:[3:27] Self-titled album the one that has song two on right graham graham coxson was going around on the interview circuit and saying oh yeah this this this album's influenced by you know really really hard understandable american bands like like pavement and i was like oh okay yeah so this in my head i kind of built them up as um something a bit difficult and then i read this saw this article in um this music magazine it must be key magazine or enemy or something and they just came across like a really nice bunch of guys and i thought right when i get back from holiday i'm going to buy that record it sounds really good also so yeah the other thing was that the main draw at that time was uh the radio head rich sort of connection godrich yeah so he he nigel godrich produced it they had johnny greenwood playing harmonica for some reason on uh platform blues and on billy and so i bought the album purely on that uh that sort of thought really i'd never heard any of their songs didn't know anything about them and i remember getting home putting putting the CD on, and the first song is Spit on the Stranger. So that was the first Pavement song I'd ever heard. Wow. And it's got such a lovely, warm introduction, and those sort of synth pops, and the vocal, and the melody. I thought, wow, this is great. This isn't what I was expecting at all. I was expecting something really hard, and almost the kind of stuff that you hear on Westing.Track 3:[4:51] Yes, yes. And so, no, I loved it. I got really into that album. them i loved uh every track on it really um uh especially carrot rope loved carrot rope but i don't i don't quite i don't quite get the kind of uh the sort of online hate that that song gets i think that's a great song um but yeah from terror twilight i then kind of worked backwards and picked up all the cds in kind of reverse order i got i think bright in the corners next, text uh and i kind of worked backwards uh crooked rain wowie zowie was hard to find i think in those days i couldn't find it so it took me it took me about a year or so to track that that cd down.Track 3:[5:33] Um so yeah i wonder why that is i don't know i think it it was in the 90s it was kind of like, you know there wasn't the internet wasn't so prominent you couldn't you almost didn't know what a band's back catalogue was. You had to kind of track it down and search it out in record stores and read about them in magazines and, uh yeah so for whatever reason that that record was hard to hard to track down but uh yeah so it's by the time i went to university i think i had all the albums, uh but then unfortunately they broke up yeah so i kind of missed the boat on the on the sort of original incarnation uh uh but then the the sm debut came out which is absolutely, that is my absolute favorite album by anybody of all time. It's really fucking good. Yeah, it's so good. I mean, I still listen to that album now. Like it's, what was it, 24 years old, is it? 23 years old or something, as we speak. Yeah, pretty close. I think I listened to it last week. I still get something from that album. Me too. I do. I listened to it for like three days in a row, Les, two weeks ago. Listened to it for like three days in a row, just straight. It's still got it, hasn't it? Every song on there is fantastic.Track 3:[7:00] The sort of guitar work, the melody. And I think sometimes with... It's quite a poppy, immediate album. And sometimes those sorts of albums don't really have the longevity. But for whatever reason, this one does. It's really got a lot going on. Um so so yeah so then so from that i i kind of so from 2001 onwards i kind of picked up all the, mountainous solar stuff as it came out uh uh but none of them really grabbed me like the debut did um up until um traditional techniques so yeah that that that's another one that's really got under my skin that album it's a great one um i think it came out i think it came out just at the beginning of lockdown yeah it was 2018 yeah and it might it might be something to do with that you know sort of being trapped in the house with this with this new record and i listened to it every day for for a long time over over lockdown uh but yeah that that's that's a really good one as well yeah um and it was around that sort of time that um.Track 3:[8:14] That i uh found your podcast and uh yeah oh wow it was it was kind of the traditional techniques album that made me kind of think oh i need to get a bit more into to revisiting some of the other mountainous stuff that i've not really got into the first time around and i found your podcast and the uh uh the mountainous conundrum podcast yes yes the guys did yeah that was great so uh yeah kind of that that period that lockdown period for me is kind of synonymous with listening to a lot of pavement podcasts, listening to traditional techniques, and sort of going back and re-exploring some of the other Mount Masolo stuff.Track 3:[8:55] But yeah, so yeah, I didn't catch them live. Well, I saw Mount Masolo a few times when he was touring the first album at festivals and little venues, and that was really cool. Here's one for you. I saw Radiohead, and opening for Radiohead was SM and the Jicks. Oh, really? What year was that? Yeah, that was Hail to the Thief, when they were touring for Hail to the Thief. Yeah, 2004, something like that. Oh, that'd be cool. That's about right, yeah. So they were doing, were they doing Real Emotional Trash or something at that time? What were the Jicks doing?Track 3:[9:40] Whatever came after Pig Lib. uh pig lip okay cool yeah no the one after pig lip uh shit i can't i can't think of what it was face the truth i've got it up here somewhere uh face the truth, Or Real Emotional Trash, one of those two. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So did you get a chance to see Pavement live ever? I did. Well, when they regrouped in 2010, I seem to remember. Yeah. And they did a series of shows down in London. But it was the week I was getting married.Track 3:[10:19] Tough to escape that. So I didn't go, but I thought about it. It was almost like you know travel down to london come back get married the next day and i thought no it's not that's not gonna work so i'll uh i'll skip that but then i thought yeah wise uh but then i caught them on the um on the most recent tour and that that tour was fantastic that really.Track 3:[10:40] You know i was completely obsessed with that tour it was so good where did you where did you see the manchester uh yeah so i saw them in leeds um and manchester uh and then the following year, they played a little one-off uh festival in the uk called blue dot and they were headlining right yeah yeah and that was really cool um yeah you got some of the uk gigs didn't you yeah i saw every every stop except for leeds oh no that's a shame yeah oh so you're at manchester yeah yeah that was a good one i thought yeah too yeah that i remember on that one they, they opened with major leagues didn't they which i think which is a bit i always think that's a bit of an odd uh odd intro song it doesn't really get things going in the same way it sort of set the mood for the night like it was a more mellow show for sure definitely definitely it's but still great still a great song yeah, but yeah no but then so the funny thing about the Leeds gig was um.Track 3:[11:52] I went with my brother and we went for some food beforehand and a couple of drinks. And we're in this Indian restaurant. And the waiter comes over and says, oh, are you guys going to the pavement gig later? Because he must have seen our T-shirts and things like that. Well, oh, yeah, yeah. And he goes, oh, the band ate next door just an hour ago. So there was another slightly more upper class Indian restaurant next door. And he's like, oh, no, they just ate there recently. and so i was like really really buzzing from that i was like oh yeah we've eaten in the restaurant next to the one that pavement ate in so we finished up there and we're walking up to the venue and the doors opened i think at seven and it was probably about you know one or two minutes to seven o'clock and we're walking up through the town center and as we're walking, we kind of notice that we're kind of walking in step with this other group that are kind of walking in this at the same speed and in the same direction you know it's a bit awkward when you're kind of trying to overtake each other and uh i thought hang on they've got they sound like american accent and um so i look over and it's uh it's bob and spiral walking up walking up to the venue um and bear in mind that the doors are just about to open so they're just like strolling up through the city center like they've got all the time in the world.Track 3:[13:15] And I was like, oh, you know, I don't normally, you know, don't normally do this but i'll have to i've got to say something you know and i've had a couple of pints by this point so i was feeling a bit more uh confident but uh so so as we got to the traffic lights i stopped them and said oh sorry guys you know just got to say hello you know you're a big fan and they were really really nice guys just stopped and we sort of stood there by the road and chatted for about five minutes or so and you know they were in no rush at all to to get to the venue or start the gig or anything like that um yeah so really really nice um, really nice guys uh and then and from that point yeah it was just a great gig uh yeah yeah oh that's so fun that you got to meet them they're so gracious right yeah no really good guys and just yeah just chatting like you know like it was like it was nothing you know yeah and you know asking where we were from and you know uh they were talking about how they'd played at the same venue with sonic youth like back in the 90s and you know and stuff like that just really yeah it's really nice little little moment um and then managed to to meet them a second time um at the blue dot festival uh the year after wow uh because they and i don't think this was really.Track 3:[14:40] Picked up online that much but on the first event of the day at the festival it was on the poster described as a listening party, And I thought a listening party with pavement and it was a sort of event curated by Tim Burgess from the charlatans. Okay. He does these sort of online listening parties where he plays an album and people listen along live and, you know, that sort of thing. And so I thought, okay, that's probably just, you know, in a tent somewhere, they're probably playing a pavement album and maybe talking about it on stage, that sort of thing. So I thought, well, I'll head over to that before, you know.Track 3:[15:20] Before we go and see any bands. And so I head over to this tent, turn the corner, and the entire band are in this tent, up on this little stage. And it's probably about, I don't know, maybe 200 people on sort of chairs. It's like a sort of wedding tent, you know, like chairs. And they're playing Wari Zari through the speakers. And they've got this interviewer on stage, and she's just talking to them about the album as they play it through, like track by track.Track 3:[15:50] Um and you know so you got like a sort of track by track rundown of every wow it's like it's so surreal to sort of turn the corner step into this tent and you know mount merson the rest of them were all on stage and they're doing that kind of track by track blow by blow rundown of every every you know every song on the rise alley i was just i was just like i wish i wish i had a bit of paper to write some of this stuff down or to remember what they're saying because it was it was really good really good sort of um director's commentary yeah exactly it's like you know those sort of um uh on tv here on say like you know on like a friday night we might get, a sort of behind the scenes documentary on some 80s band or something and they're sitting at the mixing desk and they're talking about how they recorded this album years ago it was like that but for a band you actually like and for an album you know um an album you're actually really invested in um yeah so that was really cool, uh and then yeah so what's your go-to record these days uh these days i would say it's um yeah uh because i think it's got the most variety sure does uh it's probably like the best.Track 3:[17:10] Single if you were to sort of say what if you were to give one record to somebody and say this This is what pavement's like. I would say it's Wari Zari because it's got the louder stuff, the quieter stuff.Track 3:[17:21] It's really eclectic.Track 3:[17:26] Yeah, when I was younger, it was Crooked Rain that was always the one that I would go to. But I think now it's Wari Zari.Track 3:[17:37] Well, what do you think there, Stephen? Should we flip the record and talk about song number 27? Let's do it, yeah. Alright, we'll be back right after this.Track 3:[23:35] It's the fourth song from Terror Twilight on the Countdown. Song number 27 is the fantastic The Hex. Stephen, what are your initial thoughts about this song, The Hex? The Hex. It's a really cool song. It's, I think it's completely different to anything else that Pavement does. I think it's very unique. um it's got a style which isn't really isn't really there in any i can't think of any other song that looks like it it's um you know it's kind of it's kind of slow kind of lurching, atmospheric um it's got a kind of it's almost a kind of proggy kind of vibe um Um, uh, but yeah, no, no, it's really, it's really cool. Um, I love the guitar solo. It's, it's absolutely brilliant. Did they play at any of the live shows you went to? They did. They did. They did, uh, at Blue Dot. Yeah. I was, um, they, they didn't take leads on Manchester and I was really hoping they would. Uh, and yeah, and then they, they played it at the last one. So I was happy. Yeah. Really happy with that. They really open it up live. Don't they? Oh, it's great. Yeah. Yeah, really cool song live.Track 3:[24:57] It's one of those kind of jammy songs. You know, you can tell it's come from a, you know, a band session rather than something that's been kind of written in advance.Track 3:[25:10] And in fact, you've got the, there's that other version of it, isn't there? And then the Hex. Yeah, and then the Hex. Yeah, that's on the B side. and that's i think that was part of the bright in the corners sessions yeah i believe so yeah yeah yeah and so that that version is pretty cool as well but that's much more it hasn't really got that kind of haunting sort of vibe to it it's more kind of crunchy and rocky it kind of i don't think it really emphasizes that sort of guitar line so much it's more straight into the kind of chorus and then like Magnus is doing the kind of scatting yelling bit over the top, it's quite a cool version. Yeah. So you can kind of see how that kind of rocky jam that they started with sort of evolved into this kind of more atmospheric, proggy song and I'd imagine quite a lot of that is probably down to Nigel Godrich. I bet you're right. I bet you're right. Because it's really dense as well, isn't it? Yeah. Whereas a lot of Pavement songs tend to be sparse production-wise, the whole Terror Twilight is so rich and atmospheric. Yeah. This song is a great example of that. Definitely, definitely. It's almost kind of claustrophobic. You can kind of get lost in it.Track 3:[26:33] Yeah, it's a really cool song. um in fact yeah on the on the nigel gottrich uh sequence i think he puts it at number two, so he obviously thinks it's like uh you know should be up there at the beginning i do think it works a bit better at the end as a uh you know as a sort of finale rather than pin it right right up there at the beginning yeah i like the sequence that that they put together for uh terror twilight uh i think i like it a little bit better than the gottrich sequence but it's cool that we have both. Definitely, yeah. Yeah. It changes the record. It does, it does. It's funny how a sequence can change the feel of something. Yeah. But like I was saying before, Spit on a Stranger is just the perfect opening for an album, I think. It's spot on to put that at the beginning.Track 3:[27:28] But to start off with The Hex, it's pretty dense. It's pretty yeah um but yeah no yeah really cool so do you have a handle on what this song is about, well i was having to think and yeah i mean i've been listening to this song a lot, over the past few weeks in preparation um and trying to get a sense of what's what's going on but to me it feels kind of it's kind of in some ways it's a bit radio heady because i think it's it's kind of, it's kind of a bit about um existence and alienation and feeling sort of lost and uh like some of the lyrics um, He's talking about, you know, sort of been reeling around a parking lot, being, you know, being lost in life and not knowing where you're going.Track 3:[28:27] There's some great stuff in the lyrics. That line about the epileptic surgeons with their eyes X'd out. You know, it's pretty creepy stuff. Yeah. You know, attending to the torn up kid. so you can kind of imagine this sort of you know you can kind of read that as someone who's sort of physically broken or someone who's maybe emotionally torn up like you know life has just got too heavy and right broken them down and you've got these sort of zombie, twitching surgeons attending you know attending to this kid um so pretty pretty sort of nightmarish childish kind of stuff um i love that line about the uh the secondary stumbles because the cadence of the count has led him astray i just love the sort of syncopation of that line it's it's brilliant um and then you've got uh uh the the sort of section about the architecture students which i love that yeah that's got to be one of his uh one of his best lines definitely It's, yeah, really funny. It kind of.Track 3:[29:50] Yeah, he has these lines like the bit about, you know, the architecture students with the itch they can't scratch, and, you know, the surgeons in the second verse and songs like Grounded where he's sort of taking a pot at doctors and it seems like he's got this kind of.Track 3:[30:09] He likes to sort of take the pot shots at the professional classes, I think. I think, you know, he's there from the sort of creative side, the artistic side and he's looking at the people that are kind of dedicating their lives to these sort of, you know to these professional and technical endeavors and he's sort of you know taking little pot shots at that I think that's I think that's great. I like that that's good but yeah it's kind of, it reminds me of a lot of like a Radiohead song something from OK Computer or something where it's talking about the state of the world and alienation and being lost and these sort of little nightmarish, the janets uh here and there um really good really good stuff um the the line about the swallow at the beginning is pretty cool as well i mean i think so too yeah i mean i think that's him kind of in some ways kind of showing off a little bit about some you know his knowledge about migratory birds which you know you can see that so it's quite humorous on that on that side but also i think it's kind of talking about um so so the line is uh swallow answer to your inner voice and please return god installed that radar in your pointy little beak so please return so it's kind of like it's a bit you know you could see it one way it's about nature about migratory birds or you could or you could see that it's something to do with kind of like destiny and fate.Track 3:[31:39] These creatures are kind of, you know, they're drawn back. They've got no sort of free will.Track 3:[31:47] And you can maybe see it like, perhaps it's kind of, maybe like a broken relationship and he's, you know, his partner's broken up with him and gone off and he knows they'll come back because they're drawn back with this sort of instinct, this kind of fate. You know, you can't escape this kind of instinct that's within you. Um good yeah so it's all yeah there's i think there's a lot of stuff in there like that which is i think i think different to to your average pavement song it's a lot more downbeat a lot darker a lot sort of um.Track 3:[32:24] A lot more sort of oppressive um and and that together with the whole sort of rhythm with the thing and the kind of sort of lurching piano guitar line that sort of just you know that sort of those sort of bass notes and then sort of that sort of descending guitar part all the way down yeah um yeah really cool really cool nice stab nice stab on the sm lyrics though because Because, for real, he's really tough to nail down, right? Like, it's really tough to figure out what he's saying because it does change so much. It is like phraseology, in a sense, you know? Like, just throwing out neat, syncopatic phrases and bits of thoughts and bits of ideas, and then you get this structure, you know? Very cool. Yeah, definitely. It's more about the kind of image. which, you know, it's kind of poetry in that sense, isn't it? Because it's more about the image it creates in your head than anything literal, you know? Yeah.Track 3:[33:28] How do you feel about the ranking of this song? Is it properly ranked? Is it 27? Should it be higher? Should it be lower? Yeah. I mean, not wanting to question the abacus, but I think it could be higher. I think uh i was just looking at my my uh submission to you and i think i had it at 13, that sounds more about right like just outside the top 10 i think it's one of the one of the one of the greats definitely i mean it's different i can i can understand why it's lower because i think i don't think it's a pavement song in that sense i think it's more of a it's not really really representative of what what they do it's quite unique um it's more of a shows you that sorry i apologize okay it all well it also shows you that terror twilight just doesn't have the same love that you know that other pavement records have you know like people like some of the songs are held back because you know people like a lot of people have terror twilight is number five. The rest of the records are interchangeable. You know, like, oh, I have Slanted at number one. Oh, I have Crooked at number one. Oh, I have Wally's Alley at number one. But most people have Terror of Twilight around five, it seems.Track 3:[34:50] Yeah, no, I can understand that. And I think maybe because this was the first record that I got, you don't come to it with all that sort of baggage, really. That's right. You can kind of see it as an isolated record rather than in the context of everything else. But no, I think it needs to be higher. Just for the guitar solo alone, it's like, it's so, so, so good.Track 3:[35:16] It's almost kind of a bit Pink Floyd-y, a bit kind of prog-y. It's probably like the cleanest guitar solo that he does really like most most of the guitar stuff he does is kind of you know sort of intentionally sloppy and and you know distorted and he's hit you know hitting these off key notes on purpose and you know like like the um like the solo on thin which is another absolutely fantastic solo but that's all like you know that's that's completely all over the place which you know in a really good way but uh in a great way yeah Whereas this solo is much more tightly controlled and sort of almost like classic rock. You know, it's really nice. Interesting. Classic rock. Okay, I can see that. Yeah, I could see it on the, you know, downside of the moon or something like that. Yeah. I was just listening to Dark Side before we got on the call. Yeah. Nice, nice. Yeah.Track 3:[36:16] Yeah. Well, man, it's been great having you on to talk about your origin story and the hacks. Is there anything that you want to plug or anything like that? No, not really. No, I don't really have much internet presence or produce anything creative. Well, that's cool. That's cool, nevertheless. No, no, no. I really appreciate your time. And I thank you so much for doing this. No worries. it's no it's been it's been a lot of fun i was i was looking forward to this for a long time and you know like i said i've been enjoying the countdown so far uh and uh looking forward to see what seeing what comes up at the top i'll never tell yeah well i'll tell in december but yeah all right steven thanks so much talk to you soon watch your goddamn hands.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week on the ole Pavement top 50 podcast, jD welcomes Amir from Providence to talk all about his Pavement origin story and to breakdown song 28!Transcript:Track 1:[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50. Oh, I love this song so much. It's a song, I hadn't, it wasn't on my first wave of songs to study, even though I knew we were going to play it. But it wasn't, like, you know, there were other songs I felt like I had to nail more. So this was towards the end. I said, okay, let me get into this type slow jam. Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band.Track 3:[0:24] And you're listening to The Countdown. Hey it's shay d here back for another episode of our top 50 countdown for seminal indie rock band pavement week over week we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots i then tabulated the results using an abacus and the kid from the sixth sense wait a minute am i dead how will your favorite song fare in the rankings. You'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that. This week, I'm joined by pavement superfan Amir from Providence. Amir, how the fuck are you? Hello, I'm calling from Providence, Rhode Island, and I'm very fine. Life is good. Excellent. That is good news. It's great to have you here. Let's just not beat around the bush. Let's get right into this. What is your Or pavement origin story. So that's a long origin story. So I live in Providence, Rhode Island, as I mentioned. By the way, cheers. This is local. Cheers. Watery domestic beer from Rhode Island. Narragansett Atlantic-like lager. So...Track 3:[1:37] A little plug for Atlantic Light Lager. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, that's very watery. Anyway, so I was not born here. I was born in Moscow, not Moscow, Idaho. Moscow, Soviet Union, which is more or less the same thing as Russia. And I grew up there in the 80s. And I loved music since I was, I don't know, since I remember myself. I started playing piano when I was four. So I listened to a lot of music it was also the 1980s were an exciting time for rock music in Russia because Russia was like after many decades of like complete censorship it was starting to open up and, rock music suddenly became legal so it was possible to listen to that, if you if this makes you curious I recommend everybody listen to the Wind of Change podcast It's just an amazing story. Oh, it's amazing. I've listened to it. Yes, it's brilliant. So, but, yeah, so I started, like, loving rock music when I was, like, a child. But we are a Jewish family, so we moved to Israel in 1991.Track 3:[2:52] And even though Russia was opening up back then, Israel was, like, always a very open country, open to everything. So we had MTV, or more precisely, we had MTV Europe, which is not exactly the same thing. Uh mtv like in the united states and mtv europe it's not exactly the same thing mtv europe has a lot of uh uk uh bias and uh like because it broadcasted from the uk uh and uh it's it also tried to incorporate some other european music like italian or german but it was mostly like very uk biased so that's when i was growing up mtv was uh important it was like there was no youtube YouTube kind of replaced MTV now but MTV was important culturally like hugely important not just for myself but for a lot of other people, but initially when I started like watching it it was kind of boring at least during the day but then during the night it got much more exciting because they started like after midnight, they started playing much more interesting stuff and there was a show called Alternative Nation I think it was every Tuesday on MTV Europe and they played stuff like Sonic Youth and Pavement and European what you would say alternative bands, like whatever alternative even means.Track 3:[4:18] I tried to figure out what does it even mean that it's alternative? Is it a certain guitar sound? It actually doesn't mean much at all. It's just rock music that is cooler than Bon Jovi. Well, what's funny, it was alternative to the mainstream and then it became the mainstream. Exactly. Like, if you look back at this, like, it was totally the mainstream. Like, Nirvana was alternative, but it was already quite the mainstream back in 1992. And by now, it's completely mainstream. But, you know, whatever. Names of things are sometimes funny. So, yeah. And they mentioned pavement occasionally. Now, initially, they mentioned, I didn't really dig it. Like I remember, I definitely remember they showed Cut Your Hair, of course. They never showed it during the day. They showed it late at night.Track 3:[5:12] I didn't really understand it. I was like, it just looked weird. And these days, I look at the Cut Your Hair video, and now I'm a Dan and I have children, and they look at it and they just think it's funny with the gorilla and the lizard. Yes. And I was just overthinking it totally. Like I was 15 years old. why what does what does this mean i was totally overthinking it um but yeah they should cut your hair and they i remember they showed the gold sounds video um maybe also yeah rattled by the rush like the weird the weird version with the bathtub okay didn't really understand like what's the deal with that so i did love like i did love a lot of other alternative bands like i loved sonic youth i loved therapy if you if you heard that's a band from northern ireland uh i love the, alternative, rock band, whatever that means.Track 3:[6:03] Anyway, so then I graduated high school. And as pretty much everybody else in Israel, I got drafted to the military. Now, what you don't hear, you often hear about the Israeli military on the news. What you don't hear about the Israeli military is that most people there, they don't do combat and wars and stuff like that. It's just, I work with computers And that's like what most people do. They work with, you know, cars, equipment, computers, whatever. I worked with computers. And I had a friend there. And that friend was much cooler than I am. He's probably still to this day much cooler than I am. And he had many more CDs than I had. And he knew alternative music like way better than I had. I did know Sonic Youth. Sonic Youth, which is another Samuel band. I did know Sonic Youth much better than he did. But other than that, he was like the huge expert. He taught me about cool bands like Mogwai and Mercury Rev and a bunch of others. And he taught me about pavement.Track 3:[7:08] And he gave me the Wowie Zowie CD to listen. Interesting. And I was immediately hooked. That was just incredible. So like from the first seconds of We Dance, oh my God, how did I miss that? We Dance is such a brilliant song. I'm just thinking about this. I will make this really weird comparison, but it kind of makes sense to me. Because like I mentioned that I play piano. I played piano for many years, like almost 40 years now. Oh my God. I'm old. And I...Track 3:[7:43] There's another band called Guns N' Roses. There is. Which is nowhere near as cool as Pavement. Nowhere near. But that's like the not-alternative thing that they were showing a lot on MTV. And I couldn't feel like, why are so many people excited about this band? And then I saw November Rain, which, ooh, it has piano. Piano is classy. So it's classy. It doesn't... No, I'm not comparing. I'm not comparing Guns N' Roses to Pavement, but We Dance had the piano, piano is classy. And so I heard like, Ooh, that's a much like, that's such an interesting song. And I absolutely loved it. And I loved the rest of the album as hectic and eclectic as it is and extremely long. I saw it described somewhere as three six-song EPs or six three-song EPs. That's probably the... That's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah, I saw it described like that somewhere. It's a very weird album, but it's so great. It's absolutely like all of it. I love it. And then I heard the rest of it from that friend. And he gave me like Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain, and Brighten the Corners.Track 3:[9:10] And later I just bought them all myself. So slanted, of course. So I have them all twice because they released them with the usual version and then the Lux and Redux and all those. LA Desert, they expanded. So I have them all twice.Track 3:[9:27] Yeah. And yeah, so that's kind of my pavement origin story. And yeah, and I became a super fan, I guess, around 98 or 99. Wow. So you got to experience Terror Twilight when it came out. That one you got to experience, right? In real time? Yep. What did you think of that at the time? It was very different. I did love it. I loved all the songs. I listened to it a lot back then.Track 3:[9:57] It's very different it's very different from if I really have I don't want to but if I really have to pick a favorite album it would probably be Crooked Rain Crooked Rain I really love them all but Terror Twilight is very different, has its own style unlike Wawizawi which has like 20 different styles but yeah, Terror Twilight definitely has a certain and particular.Track 3:[10:25] Integrated feel to it. Yeah, I would agree. So did you ever get a chance to see them live? Yeah. So first time I saw something related to Pavement, it was not Pavement. And it was not Malcolm's solo. It was a show in Israel, in Tel Aviv, in 2004. It was a tribute show, like a bunch of local Israeli bands played a tribute show to Pavement and Malcolm's. Really? It was pretty brilliant. Yeah. Israel has like a very varied music scene. Okay. Rock of all kinds of styles and jazz. I know nothing about it. It's not that known around the world, but it has a very rich, vibrant music scene. Mostly sang in Hebrew, but occasionally in English. So that show had bands singing mostly in English. Like I remember a band that I really loved, they performed Gold Sounds.Track 3:[11:27] And here, I think, uh, that's like, that, that's how I, that's how I found out about that show that like, there was a band that I, that I love. They, they, that band used to be called blush and lure back then. And they sang in English later. They changed the name of the band and they started singing in Hebrew, but, but back then they were singing in English and, uh, yeah. So they performed two songs there. I think it's definitely gold sounds and probably here. Here and uh yeah there was a bunch of other bands and like some of them did like very similar versions to the original some of them completely reworked them as like punk songs some of them translated the lyrics to hebrew like there was a i think it was father to a sister of thought they completely translated it to hebrew that was that was fun so anyway uh yeah that was a cool show. The second time I saw something pavement related was in 2010.Track 3:[12:23] 2010, that was the first big reunion in New York, in Central Park. That was a brilliant show. It's actually possible that you and I went to the same show. Yes, I know. Yeah. And yeah, I absolutely loved it. I think, like you mentioned a couple of times on your podcast, that, how did you describe it? That they seemed tired or something like that?Track 3:[12:48] Yeah, they just didn't seem into it. You know, the same way they did on this newer tour. Maybe, um, maybe I, I was absolutely excited about this. Oh, me too. At least, at least the part, they also seemed like very excited. Uh, the Stanowich was like ecstatic, uh, eyeballed, uh, who is like, usually very like quiet and, uh, serious. He was actually quite chatty on the stage. I remember, like, I remember him speaking to New York and how cool, like he's, he's from New York and how cool New York is and how cool Queens is. He, he mentioned Queens. I don't remember what he's, what did he say exactly, but like, he's like, are there people from Queens or something like that? Like he looked. I don't remember that. Yeah. And he's, he mentioned something like that. So anyway, um, yeah, it was, it was a fantastic show. Such a fantastic show.Track 3:[13:43] Heckler Spray, Summer Babe. Oh, wow. In the Mountain Desert. Uh, just a fantastic, fantastic show. So is the record that you go back to now, like, is it Wowie Zowie when you have a hankering for Pavement, or is it your favorite, Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain? I would probably say, it's so hard to say, I would probably say Crooked Rain and Slanted, but I love them all. I love them all. I listen to them all. There was a third Pavement-related thing I saw, and that was Malkmus.Track 3:[14:18] Malcolm's solo I think it was in 2012 or 13 it was the it was it was.Track 3:[14:26] Oh, I'm, I'm blacking out. Which, uh, which, uh, the album with, uh, uh, Senator, uh, which, which album is that? Mirror Traffic? Yes, that one. Uh, yeah. So that was, that was a brilliant show. Uh, that was a really brilliant show. Towards, towards the end, he did, uh, uh, something like, uh, funny, uh, Faith No More impersonation. Really? yeah like towards the end of the show he played he played a couple of famous so he played here and i think uh speaks he remember and uh at one of the songs towards the end they were like the jigs were getting all uh uh in a good mood and uh jamming and at some point they just started started playing um what's the famous faith no more song epic yeah yeah they just I started playing that. That's so cool. Yeah. Anyway, it was a brilliant rock and roll show. So yeah, so these are the three Pavement-related shows I attended. Nice. Well, what do you say we take a quick break and come back and talk about song number 28? Let's do that. Let's do that. Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement.Track 1:[15:43] Thanks listening. And now on with a countdown. 28.Track 3:[20:18] Song number 28 on the countdown comes from Crooked Rain. Crooked Rain, amazingly, it's the first song from their sophomore effort to appear on this list. You can exhale now because track 28 is Stop Breathing. Amir. Yeah. What are your initial thoughts about this song? I love this song. It appears in my top 20 that I sent you. I think it's number 14 there. so it's, half of your number I know maybe I should have rated it even higher it's like it's a brilliant song it's kind of special I made a bit of homework so it has the, it has if I'm not mistaken I learned music for many years but maybe I'm mistaken about something but almost all Pavement songs have the quadruple rhythm 1, 2, 3, 4 okay this one is Because the correct term here is probably the six-eighths rhythm. Oh, okay. One, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three.Track 3:[21:27] So there are not a lot of pavement songs in this rhythm. On the studio albums, it's just Our Singer and Stop Breathing. And half of Fight This Generation, the beginning of Fight This Generation. Oh, okay. The rest, and well, there's also 5-4 equals Unity, which begins in 5-4ths. And then I think actually the chorus is also in 3-4ths or 6-8ths. And the rest of the pavement, well, in all the kinds of B-sides and bonus tracks, tracks uh there are a bunch of uh um six eighths uh songs uh mercy snack kentucky cocktail so stark sagano stray fire um and yeah that's about it you did do your homework i did do my homework there's also kneeling bus uh also known as rugrat which is a very weird beat that i couldn't completely understand a very very cool one uh but it's like it's neither four neither three but yeah so that's so it's pretty.Track 3:[22:36] It's pretty unique relatively unique in that regard it's beautifully placed in the track list at the third third spot kind of a different mood between like the big rockers the, uh elevate me later and uh cut your hair yeah so that one has a different mood it has very beautiful uh guitar sound uh throughout the song and especially of course towards the end, um so yeah i absolutely love the song one of the best they the pavement has very, pretty much no songs that uh i would like say that they are bad but this this one is really one one of the best so what's your relationship with this song uh crooked rain crooked rain you said is your favorite record so what do you remember about the first time you heard this song or.Track 3:[23:33] Something like that so so this was the this was the second album i heard uh after wavy zowie and it's relatively much more uh much more of a straightforward rock straight absolutely relatively, compare it compared to wawi especially the first song like it gets a bit weirder towards the end but uh the beginning of it it's like it's a relatively very straightforward i agree.Track 3:[23:58] In a classic rock album i i i heard somewhere that uh malcolm called it like disparagingly classic rock like he said that silent kid is a is a classic rock song in like in a not very good way, but he's wrong well it's maybe he was just sarcastic i don't know it was Because Silent Kid is a brilliant song. And Stop Breathing is a brilliant song. It has this really, really beautiful guitar sound and this beat. And it may be, oh my God, this is such a cool rock band with cool melodies. And they do all these things so easily. And it sounds like they were just having fun. But the song, it's kind of somber, kind of solemn, kind of serious. Yeah, I agree. Relatively. It has this special atmosphere. Nevertheless, it feels like while they're playing it, they're having a lot of fun with these guitars. Like, that's a really special guitar sound, especially towards the end. And it gets stronger and stronger.Track 3:[25:08] And oh my God, it's just so beautiful. It's just so inspirational. Yeah. What do you think the song is about? I have no idea. I barely ever listen to lyrics, to be honest. In music, I mostly listen to the melodies and the playing and the arrangements.Track 3:[25:31] Volley. Like, volley has a... It's kind of a... Like, it probably refers to both things. Like, both to the volley in sports. ports and in the war. And that's kind of a menacing word. It's struck by the first volley. So that gets you in a kind of a tragic mood from the start. And then it says, stop breathing. And there's also this alternative version on LA Desert Origins where he says, start bleeding, like stop breathing and then start bleeding. Really? Yeah. I gotta re-listen to LA Desert Origins. My memory is so shit. Oh, well. Yeah. It's like the comment there is that it's from Louder Than You you think, 1993, and it's probably, I don't know, maybe it's a demo, maybe it's not a demo, maybe it was at some point intended to be released. But in the chorus there, he says, stop breathing and then start bleeding, which makes it even more menacing. Yeah.Track 3:[26:46] Yeah. So there's this menacing song, and right after it, there's Cut Your Hair, which is very fun. The exact opposite. The exact opposite.Track 3:[26:55] But menacing, you know, my attitude to music is embodied in a poem that I really love. It was written by a jazz musician who's very old, but he's still alive, I think. His name is Oliver Lake, a jazz saxophone player. And he wrote a poem. And in the poem, he mentions names of many musical artists that he loves. and they're very different artists.Track 3:[27:26] And he's like, and the poem is built like a conversation between himself and the waiter in the restaurant. And then he says, put all the meals in one, put all my meals in one plate. Don't ask me what kind of music I play. I play the good kind. So I like, I actually, I don't care very much about the genres of music and I don't care very much about the mood of a particular song. Like some songs are happy and some songs are sad and some songs are scary like these are all important things but uh eventually i i i judge all songs by like this is the good song or is it not a very good song and uh this song is is of the good kind uh yeah that's that's the really important thing like it like it definitely has a mood uh definitely has a very identifiable probably intentional mood and it's probably placed intentionally in that sequence uh on the album but it definitely has this character.Track 3:[28:25] So this is going to be I think I know the answer to this because.Track 3:[28:31] You've already told me what you rated it on your list but do you think this song is properly rated overrated underrated on the top 50 28 is lowish, I would be very unpleasantly surprised if it was not in the top 50 at all um i like i would probably rate it a bit higher uh maybe it's not my number one song but it's like it's pretty like it's pretty high it's pretty high on my list it's a great song it is absolutely there's nothing to shake a stick at unless it's a complimentary uh stick shaking your dick fun fun fact about uh the tennis part uh the so the song is like you mentioned it uh You mentioned that you read it from those notes that Malthus had in his own songs. And he mentioned tennis himself, so we have it from himself.Track 3:[29:28] I checked it. So I edit Wikipedia quite often in English and in Hebrew and occasionally in other languages. And I checked what is actually Malthus' relation to tennis.Track 3:[29:41] And the English Wikipedia mentions that he loves playing golf and tennis, but he doesn't, Here's where it gets funny. So Wikipedia editors, good, serious Wikipedia editors, try to fact-check everything. And the fact-check in Wikipedia is done by adding footnotes. You may have noticed that Wikipedia has lots of footnotes. So I checked the footnotes. So where it mentions that he plays golf and tennis, it had two footnotes. Both of them were not very good. One of them was a completely dead link. the other one didn't say anything about any sports so I found another source like it's actually a tennis website where he speaks about actually loving tennis so yeah so there's another confirmation that he loves tennis that other tennis website mentioned the song yeah so I improved the English Wikipedia article about Mr. Stephen Maltmes and now it has a better footnote for the tennis information, So, yeah, that's a kind of thing I do for fun. Cool.Track 3:[30:50] Well, it's been really great talking to you today. I'm curious if you have anything that you want to plug or mention for people to look at on the internet or anything that you've created, anything like that. Well not much I'm kind of I'm trying I'm trying to I moved I lived in Israel for many years and I moved to Providence a few months ago my wife is doing an academic project here so we all moved together with the kids.Track 3:[31:21] But I love as I mentioned I love Israeli music I'm, there's not much to plug I'm trying to start a band that would play covers of Israeli songs which is challenging in the united states i it's i'm slowly finding some people to do that but there's not much to say about this right now uh but uh you know you can you can find in the future there might be a band that we can look for hopefully and uh then i would maybe um i would i would probably i would probably mostly play uh covers of israeli music or maybe in the loop on that amir maybe an occasional pavement song what's that keep me in the loop on that shoot me an email when you get it going and I'll talk about it on the pod. I haven't tried that. Maybe an occasional pavement song. Yeah, that would be cool. Well, like I say, it's been a blast spending this time with you today. I really appreciate you doing this heavy lifting on a podcast that is ostensibly yours.Track 3:[32:21] So, thank you very much for that and make sure to wash your goddamn hands.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Devin Faraci joins jD today on the podcast. Beyond listening in on Devin's Pavement origin story, you'll hear him wax nostalgic about song 30.Transcript:Track 2:[1:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.Track 1:[1:02] At 31, give it a day. What do you think, Scott from North Dakota?This is a gem, and I love it so much. I love the whole EP.This would have been something I did not discover until well after I knew all of Wowie Zowie, all of Bright in the Corners, and it wasn't something I easily could have. have it.Track 2:[1:27] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to the Countdown.Track 3:[1:34] Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band Pavement.Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads.I then tabulated the results using using an abacus and 28 grams of the best weed you've ever smoked, along with some drifter named Larry.How will your favorite songs fare in the rankings? Well, you'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that.This week I'm joined by Pavement superfan Devin from LA.Devin, how the fuck are you? I'm doing pretty good. I'm doing pretty good. Really glad to be here.Amazing to be on the World Wide Web talking about Pavement so many decades after I first started listening to them. Well, let's get right into that then.Let's go back a few decades and get your Pavement Origins story.You know, I have a lot of Pavement history. I started in around 92.Oh, wow. Yeah, so Slanted and Enchanted.And I'm pretty sure it was Summer Babe Winter Version that was the first song that I heard, I have to guess.Track 3:[2:50] And it was a weird time in my life I was a college student, I had been kicked out of college. Oh, shit. I had earned a 0.0 GPA.And not for cool reasons, mind you.I think that it was 1992, and my college had what they called a VAX computer system, which was the early internet.And I was on the early internet all night playing multi-user dungeon games and did not go to school.Track 3:[3:24] So I got kicked out of college for playing video games. Really ahead of my time.It's like big Gen Z energy, I feel like.And I was living with my dad in Illinois, who was living in the suburbs, and it was the most miserable year of my life because the alternative rock world that I had been in back when I was living in New York City had exploded.And I was stuck in the Chicago suburbs and I couldn't drive.And all of these amazing things were happening and I was not part of any of it.But there was a cool record store. And so I discovered Pavement and I have loved that band ever since.And, um, yes, that's my original pavement experience trapped in the suburbs of Chicago, New York city kid trapped in the suburbs of Chicago, uh, watching the world explode into cool alternative rock shit all around me, but so, so far away.Track 3:[4:24] So what was it like when you walked into that record store? Was it the album cover that got you?Had you heard of the band through like zines or anything like that?Or was it just like a random purchase? I probably had heard it from a magazine, probably Alternative Press, if I had to guess back then. I read that shit religiously.And I might have already heard the song, but I'll tell you, man, when I heard that album, it was like somebody had finally recorded music that was aimed directly at my particular personal brain.Wow. You know, just sort of the discordant, weird lo-fi sound they had on that first record, especially back in the day.But with melodic pop sensibilities, it was incredible to me.It really was incredible.And Malkmus' voice just really was, I mean, just got me, just nailed me.Track 3:[5:15] Yeah, it's very, I mean, they're very unique in a, in a world at the time where things were not yet starting to sound the same, but, and our guys were signing everybody out of Seattle.They could, you know, this bright beacon of hope from Stockton, California, um, really shone a light for a lot of people.I wish I could have been there at the time, but I didn't catch on until the late nineties.So yeah no i was pretty happy to be there which means that i got to experience some pretty cool pavement stuff in real time um you know the greatest t-shirt i ever owned was a pavement t-shirt it had two fried eggs on the tits yes uh it's one of the great t-shirts of all time but i also have two really memorable i've seen pavement a few times but i have two very memorable pavement concert experiences all right share them uh so one of them was at the tibetan freedom Freedom concert in New York City.And there were two stages. And I forget who was up against Pavement on the other stage at the time, but nobody came to see Pavement.And so it was this big stage at Randall Island in New York City and Pavement playing.And it was like me and 30 guys.Track 3:[6:30] Are you serious? There was nobody there. I got right to the front. Like it was incredible.They were really playing to like the sparsest crowd you could imagine.It was, I honestly forget who was up against them, but that was packed.Um, and, and, and the pavement was, it was dead. It was just incredible.Um, which I'm sure wasn't great for the band, but for me, uh, was a delight.I mean, just an absolute delight, but the greatest pavement concert experience I've ever had.Track 3:[7:00] They did a secret show at CBGB, which is a very small venue and also disgusting and very historic.And so I got tickets to this secret CBGB show, and I honestly forget what album this is, so I don't remember what they were playing.But the big memory of the secret CBGB show is the band had been on for a minute.And then Keanu Reeves entered CBGB wearing a tuxedo with a woman in a evening dress, evening gown of some kind, like they had just come from an award show or something. It looked like.And every time the band finished a song, Keanu Reeves would yell, Freebird, which is something I know.Track 3:[7:52] Uh, for maybe the younger listeners don't realize that there was a period in rock music history where people would go to concerts and yell free bird at the bands in between every single song.And I will tell you that shit did not fly with a pavement crowd.Uh, the pavement crowd was not excited to hear this.And so that was a very strange experience, but what it made it even stranger was years later reading an interview with the band.And they talked about that night. And they talked about how Keanu Reeves had tried to come backstage and meet them. And they turned him away.Because the other thing people have to remember is that in the 90s, Keanu Reeves before The Matrix was not cool.He had started making a bunch of like really crummy movies and sort of for Gen X, Keanu Reeves sort of had crossed a boundary that we did not necessarily like.And so he was not cool at the time.That's why when he was cast in The Matrix, it was kind of a joke.Like, you know, you couldn't believe that that guy was going to be in this movie.So they didn't let him come backstage.Track 3:[8:54] And then they talked about, after the show, they were leaving the venue and they were walking somewhere and they walked past this very famous downtown restaurant, Veselka, which is like the heart of the village.There's a documentary out about it right now, actually. But anyway, they were walking past Veselka and there by himself sitting in a window, sadly eating Ukrainian food, was Keanu Reeves.And they felt terrible that they had turned him away from backstage.Oh, that's a fantastic story.Yeah. Jesus.Keanu Reeves yelling Freebird. I can't believe it. It was unreal.And a friend of mine, who's actually now a music executive, heckled Keanu at the show.As Keanu was leaving CB, my friend yelled, Dogstar, love that band, which was Keanu's band at the time, his bad band at the time. So, yeah. Yeah.So are there any records that you cleave to now, or do you go back, for nostalgia's sake, to Slanted?Track 3:[10:11] Man, you know, it's a great... I mean, I gotta say, for me, Crooked Rain.Crooked Rain is the peak, I think. And I love every Pavement record.But Crooked Rain is the one that I just find myself drawn to again and again and again and again.Again um you know and that was the album you know where they started getting like videos on mtv which was a truly bizarre experience too uh you know when cut your hair debuted on 120 minutes and made its way into regular mtv programming uh was very strange because this was such an odd band uh for the time you know and and and crooked yeah crooked rain is i mean i love all of them Wowie zowie's amazing, bright in the corners.But it's crooked rain.Track 3:[10:59] Yeah, I think so. I just went for a walk earlier this morning.It's unseasonably warm here in Toronto.And I went for a walk and I just had a hankering to listen to Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain.So I threw it on and walked until it was over.And I just forgot, even though I know deep in my bones that it's a great album, like I had forgot just how cohesive it is and how big it sounds.And really it sounds completely different than slanted right yeah i know it's a total step forward but i think what's amazing you know so in the 90s i was a real diehard flannel guy you know i had my real deep opinions on selling out and for crooked rain they went much more rock oriented slanted than they had been on, on, uh, slanted.And, um, but it worked like there was no sense of selling out.Uh, it was more like a band fulfilling its promise.Um, even though I love the lo-fi stuff, you know, uh, you know, Westing by Musket and Sexton. I love that. Like that, love that noise. Give it to me.Uh, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, Crooked Rain, it just, it feels like a band blossoming into what they can be.Track 3:[12:18] Oh that's nice i like it yeah is there anything else you want to share about your pavement origins i mean i guess just that.Track 3:[12:33] Pavement is a really special band to me you know partially because of um, Where I was when I found them, you know, I was so trapped in the suburban hell that I just didn't understand and I was not part of, you know, this was the era when I had, um, like a blue undercut.Like I had like that top knot thing going on the sides and back of my head shaved and my hair was dyed a little blue and I wore ripped jeans and flannels.And when I was walking to work in the suburbs along the side of the road where they had no sidewalks, I had a car drive past me and throw a beer can at me and shout the F slur at me as they drove by.So I'm not saying that I'm an oppressed person, but I'm saying that I was living in an environment that was not friendly to me and my kind of people.Track 3:[13:27] And I heard this band and it was like somebody talking directly to me.And so as a result, it has always been just an important band to me.And because I am still partially that Gen X, quote unquote, hardcore, never sell out kind of a guy, I love that Pavement never sold out.I love that Pavement never ended up becoming some kind of a big, massive band that like the worst people you know got into. to.Pavement has gotten more well-known and it has a great legacy, but it's closer to the way that the Velvet Underground used to be.The Velvet Underground has sort of crossed over.People know the Velvet Underground now, but there was a very long time where you could say to somebody that you love the Velvet Underground and if they got it, you knew they were a cool person that you were going to like.Pavement has that right now.If I tell somebody I love Pavement and they They actually know Pavement.They don't just know two songs or something.Track 3:[14:35] Then I know, oh, that's a person who I can be friends with. That's a person who gets me. Because part of the deal is that Pavement...It's not just this amazing music, but there's a thing I love about Pavement, which is that the kind of brain that I think it takes to really appreciate Pavement, because so many of the lyrics are close to nonsense, but not nonsense.And it requires a brain that's willing to engage with that.And I think it's sort of like really fun and smart at the same time that it can be incredibly dumb sometimes.But, you know, that's, I think, the defining line for Pavement for me.Those lyrics that, like, have silly things in them and have nonsensical things in them, but very often they add up to something that is emotionally true that you can really understand, even if you can't understand it as language necessarily.And also every now and again drops in bizarre stuff that's like smart people stuff, you know?You know, how many bands have songs about how the kids that made acid couldn't get laid?I mean, like, you know, that's like an amazing thing to drop into the middle of a song out of nowhere.So, you know, yeah, so that's my Pavement, yeah.That's nice. I like it. Well, what do you say we take a quick break and come back to the other side and talk about song number 30?Sounds good. All right, let's do that.Track 2:[16:01] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening.And now on with a countdown.Track 1:[16:09] 30.Track 3:[19:08] Song number 30 on the countdown comes from Pavement's fifth and final album, Terror Twilight.It's also the third song from this album to make the top 50 thus far.At track 30, we have Spit on a Stranger.What the hell do you make of this song, Devin?Track 3:[19:29] I'm really glad I got this song because I love this song.And the thing about this song is that there's a real tension within the song that truly appeals to me, because I believe that musically and in the verses, this is the most romantic song that Pavement has ever recorded.100%. Like some of these verses are things that you would say at a wedding.Track 3:[19:58] And then you get to the chorus and there's the you're a bitter stranger.And it's obvious that it's about a breakup of some kind, but it has those that tinge of love in the verses.And again, musically that I think make it really beautiful and really melancholic in a really incredible way.The song, you know, you're a bitter stranger, but the song is not bitter.Uh which i think is amazing and i just tender yeah i love the the the the tension within it i just it's it's so good because it's not an obvious tension like if you just listen to this song and don't pay attention to the lyrics it's just a beautiful lovely song that uh if you catch a couple of the verse lyrics you go that's really gorgeous you know um and then and then we listen to the whole thing there's like a lot more going on i i i adore this song yeah it's a it's a it's a standout on terror twilight for sure not just because it's a single it it just i don't know it just pops off that record um what's your relationship with the song do you remember hearing it for the first time or do you remember what that was like.Track 3:[21:10] I don't remember hearing it for the first time. I can't remember if this was a single before the album came out or not. I don't recall.I believe it was. So I probably heard it as a single.I'm sure I heard it on the radio or I bought the single before the album came out. But I don't really recall.I remember when this came out and this album came out that this was a song that I fixated on pretty intensely at the time. This was kind of a track I kept going back to again and again and again and again.And I just I just fell immediately in love with it.It's funny, because now, with many years gone by, and the world having moved on and learning more about the making of this record.Track 3:[21:58] There's something beautiful about this being the opening track on their final record, because now I know behind the scenes, they were in the process of breaking up.And so in some ways, this is a song about that process in some ways, you know, and that speaks to what the band was going through.So I think that's a cool thing that has kind of grown on me over the years.But like this is definitely a song that i have from just again from the very beginning, just latched on to i just think that some of those lyrics are just so beautiful and i just think that they're so lovely because i think that they're beautiful in a way uh.Track 3:[22:41] That feels relatable. It's not over the top.So it's like, however you feel, whatever it takes, whenever it's real, whatever awaits, whatever you need, however so slight, whenever it's real, whenever it's right.I mean, that's like a beautiful everyday idea of what love is, right?It's a beautiful everyday piece of it. And then again, obviously, the choruses get a little different.But I really just keyed into that because this is not a band that traditionally had a lot of songs that I would have felt super romantic about.This is not a band that has a lot of songs that I would say, oh, I would love to play this for someone to let them know how I feel about them.Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a lot of those.But this is one that does have- You're not going to play Debris Slide.Track 3:[23:31] Uh, but this is, this is one of those. And, and so, yeah, it's always been a very special song to me. What do you think about the production values on Terror Twilight and this song specifically?When you think back to putting on Slanted and Enchanted and hearing that real lo-fi and that crushing riff and that drum riff as well on Summer Babe, and then flash forward like seven years, eight years, and you've got this song that is, like you said, melancholic and beautiful.But so lush as well. Yeah, it's a very thick production. It's very crystal clear.Track 3:[24:14] I mean, I think it's really important for me, because of how I experience pavement, I experience them in real time.The gap between 92 and 99 is enormous.I mean, just sort of like what the world was like and what the music scene was like.And so in 99 was the year of the second Woodstock.That's right. And so we're looking at a world with all of this new metal and stuff, which, as a guy who had been a big...Track 3:[24:46] I was a metal and punk guy, you know, when I was younger.And when grunge broke through and heavy rock hit the radio airwaves and MTV, I was like, we won.We did it. Like, this is incredible. This is really great music.And then that all turned into Nickelback and Linkin Park and stuff like that, which I hated.And so by 99, I felt like we had lost the war.A lot of what I was listening to was more electronic at that point.You know, a lot of the bands I liked had sort of moved in that direction.And this gorgeous, gentle sound felt like an evolution that I could roll with because the rest of the world had become so ugly in so many ways.The rock music scene had become so gross.And so as a result, this album sounding this way, I think, feels alternative to what was happening then.Ah that's nice yeah i would i would say you're bang on the money because uh this was the time where pop music really reared its head you know with the spice girls and n-sync and backstreet boys and then on the flip side of the coin mainstream wise hip-hop was finally you know crushing through so rock really was left behind and the flag bearers for it were pretty trash Yeah.Track 3:[26:03] You know? So for this band to come out and release Terror of Twilight at the time that they did, you're so right.It was maybe the last battle, but it was a battle nevertheless.And also, I mean, again, I mean, for me, I mean, I'm going to be very personal here. You know, when I first heard Slanted and Enchanted, I was 19.And, you know, seven years later, I'm heading to my late 20s and I'm about to be 30. And a lot changed.Changes in that decade, you know, a lot changes.And I had begun a process of growing and changing in a lot of different ways and that the band grew and changed worked for me.I didn't need them to stay what they were, I think is the thing.Track 3:[26:51] Yeah, and it just leads to like, what would a sixth album have looked like?I'm so pleased that, you know, despite two reunions, they haven't ventured down that path.We're just left with these five great records and multiple EPs that stand the test of time, quite frankly. Yeah, no, I agree.I have the controversial opinion that I'm really glad when bands don't do new records or I'm not going to say, I don't know how to say this in a way that I'm not going to get in trouble for, but like, it's not good that John Lennon died, but I'm glad the Beatles didn't get back together for Live Aid and then release some terrible late 80s record. Do you know what I mean?Like, so I obviously it's horrible. Like, it's terrible that John Lennon was shot dead.But I'm glad that today I don't have Kurt Cobain on Twitter because I'm afraid of what he would be saying.And so as a result, sometimes it's good when things just end.Track 3:[27:54] And these days, people don't let things end. And the fact that the band Pavement has let Pavement be a thing that exists in this one decade.Decade uh i mean it still exists because they do reunions but like it is of that decade they're not out here trying to do new songs for soundtracks or shit like that i really respect that and i like that me too i i couldn't agree with you more i think um there's a time and place element to it all like you said uh i discovered them when i was uh just approaching 30 probably just approaching So I got to go back and zip through it, but through my 30s.And it was a similar type thing that you experienced because you know that the difference between 30 and 40 is enormous as well.And so by the time I got to really experience Terror Twilight in a way that it was meant to be experienced after, you know, um, pouring through the other four records, it, it did live up to that for me.Track 3:[29:02] It's so funny. We're such old motherfuckers and the band's a bunch of old motherfuckers.And this is honestly, especially the early records are young people music, but it still really holds up as an old guy.I mean, like Crooked Rain is young people music. They're over there talking shit on other bands and stuff like that.I mean, like, that's what you do when you're a young little snobby hipster.Uh and here we are i'm 50 man and uh i still listen to the exact same tracks i listened to when i was 19 um so either i haven't grown at all in any acceptable or understandable way or perhaps this music is eternal and speaks to us at every stage of life oh i'll take the latter then.Track 3:[29:46] Yeah absolutely well devin it's been absolutely a thrill to have you on and you know to talk Walk through song number 30, Spit on a Stranger.I'm wondering if you have anything you need to plug or you would like to plug.Yeah, so I have a couple of podcasts that I do, and I have a Patreon where I do writing about pop culture stuff.So you can go visit that, patreon.com slash cinema, sanga, S-A-N-G-H-A.And you can go join and get access to the writing and get access to my numerous podcasts that happen over there where i am being told today my sound quality is pretty good i'm very happy to hear this because this is my number one concern in life is how my sound quality is so yeah it's great thanks so much thank you for having me i really appreciate it all right wash your goddamn hands thanks.Track 2:[30:40] For listening to meeting malchus a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you.If you've got questions or concerns please shoot me an email JD at MeetingMalchemist.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This is so fucking cool. Bob Nastanovich joins me this week to talk about a whack of shit including song 33!!!!Transcript:1:00] Loretta Scars. Alex from Portland, how are you feeling about Loretta Scars?It's a great song. I've got all kinds of thoughts on it, but it's on Flannidand Enchanted, which is a great album. it's,Slanted and Enchanted is the least varied album in my opinion like,most of the songs on it are kind of of one vibe and this is definitely no exceptionI think it's a great vibe I enjoy it Hey this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band.Track 3[1:40] Pavement and you're listening to The Countdown Hey it's It's JD here back foranother episode of our top 50 countdown for Seminole indie rock band Pavement.Week over week we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks thatyou selected with your very own top 20 ballads.I then tabulated the results using an abacus, a bicycle pump,lotion, and some biscuits for Kevin, my homemade from uni.How will your favorite songs fare in the rankings? Well, you'll need to tune in to find out.So there's that. This week we're joined bypavement superstar bob fucking nastanovichbob what is up nookay cool and you're aren't you a toronto personsure am yeah how are thingsthere bright blue sunny skies todayabout five degrees celsius so that'slike spring weather for us especially yeah that's niceyeah we've got I don'tmean to show you up Jamie but it's 63degrees Fahrenheit here with a light breeze and a bright sunshine oh man herein Paris Tennessee you know like a typical winter day here is kind of gray and44 but it's especially nice.Track 3[3:03] Today which is pretty awesome that sounds about rightthat sounds like good you know good walking weatherso yeah how are you doing all right with thisproject so far so good i'm likelike people are lining up to do it uh likei'm caught up through march uh i'vegot to do some interviews this week with people sobasically people seem to be like iwas like i don't know how people respond to a top 50 thatthey have to listen to every week but idon't know my numbers are good and um like goodfor me you know yeah they'll get into it yeah ithink so and like just a little bit of water cooler debate rightwhat's that bud just a littlebit of water cooler debate yeah exactly youknow like what if what are you fucking thinking greenlanders likegreenlander was 46 six andyou know people were really pleased thatit made the top 50 but then there's another cohort that are like that's crazyit should be at least in the top 30 you know or whatever so no that is so weirdi mean i don't um i do know people that love greenlander and i um ineffectively insisted.Track 3[4:18] On trying to getit played live in iceland and that would have been cool yeah and um he we soundchecked it and it sounded just fine for about 70 seconds and malchus was.Track 3[4:43] Like i don't want to do that one you know and then um with him you know his attitude was so.Track 3[4:53] Sterling in 2022 and 2023 that um you don't and he was willing to play so many,different songs because in the past like specifically in 2010 um i just thinkit's uh i mean i remember his attitude back then was sort of uh.Track 3[5:18] It's going back to a more juvenile style of songwriting for him, which is more direct,but I guess maybe it kind of reminded him of certain aspects of his life.I mean, especially the earlier stuff, pre-Steve West, seems to give him a certainamount of actual PTSD, which is a word I never use.Track 3[5:48] Self-reference um just because of umthe stress caused by gary likei sat next to him when we watched the screening of gary's documentary andum it he didnot i mean it's a great documentary have you seen iti did yeah it's a great documentary andi don't think they really could have done a better job and umi mean i would have been wildly pleasedwith it i know gary was um so coolthat he got to see it before he passed at least right ican't i can't believe he lived that long i mean noway you know i mean i mean forhim to make it to 70 um should give us all belief that we can do it too um buthe comes from really supremely great genes in terms of longevity his parentslived well into their 90s and uh for some reason despite.Track 3[6:49] Every possible attempt without actually attempting suicide he basically triedto shorten his life um man imean he was just what was it like when you first met him bob what was thatsituation exactly like every other time i methim um he uhi mean at first he was kind of suspicious of me because he i mean you know verybriefly he was suspicious of me because he thought that i was like a friendof malchmas's who could probably drum and was there to replace him so So for the first,until a day or two in, we practiced in his parents'house the first time we went on tour in 1990.And when I say practice, I think we only had 12 songs and we only played six or seven shows, I think.And when he realized that I couldn't play drums, he...He relaxed a little bit. I mean, I think he realized that I was there to,like, kind of carry gear and make things happen and drive and then...You do more than that, dude. You do. I mean, back then, I actually did verylittle. There's this je ne sais quoi that you bring.Well, yeah. I mean, I developed my role over the years.Track 3[8:09] It's hard for me to really accept my overall importance. But back then,there were some shows, you know, shows back then were 45 minutes or whatever.And there were some shows where if he was on, I really didn't have to do a thingbut sort of stand there. I mean, it was, it was strange.I mean, there was a few, there's like, there were times where I would actually be like, um,pretty embarrassed because people in the audience must've thought,you know, why does the, why does the guy who doesn't do anything have to stand on the stage?And um and then also after the first time we toured europe in 92 and it waswe played like maybe 28 shows in 31 days or something and we we finished inbelgium somewhere and remco,was doing our sound for the first time that far back he goes i didn't realize that He goes back.The very first night we met him was about five o'clock on the day that we openedfor My Buddy Valentine and Super Chunk at the Old Ritz in New York. What a lineup.Track 3[9:27] Yeah. And he, uh, we played for 25 minutes and we played seven songs and, but whatever.So we met Remco outside the old Ritz. Um, we were on a, um.Track 3[9:46] On a label called Big Cat, which was run by this rather scurrilous fellow namedAbbo, Stephen Abbott, who was in a band called UKDK.And as it turned out, he was actually kind of a thief, but he knew Remco becauseRemco had worked with the band Copshoot Cop.And so he kindof figured that this young Dutch kid should do sound for us because we neededa sound man because we would turn up in a lot of places and we'd be so disheveledand disorganized and unprofessional that local sound staffs would be like,who are these assholes?You know what i mean like back then in the 90s if you didn't sort of show up.Track 3[10:41] I mean if you showed up at least in the manner thatpavement did a lot of these people you know youwere really at the mercy ofpeople um whoyou know hypothetically wereinto sound garden started and if youdidn't sound like them then you couldfuck right off um and if you didn't bringthat some level of professionalism or panache um then you could really get theshaft because people would just be like really annoyed that they had to workwith you and that's and and that's really what it's like when you have to dependon the house unless you've got one of of those rare situations where they give a crap.Right. So from that point on, you guys were on the road with Remco.Yeah, pretty much.Ninety seven percent of the time, like in 2010, like those one off things inNorth America, we wouldn't fly them over.Bob Weston did set them sound for us a few times.Now we've got this guy named Aaron Mullen.Track 3[11:54] Who did a few shows this year. I mean, it's just if it makes no sense.Financially for Remco to come over for a short stint. I mean,obviously doing sound for pavements, not rocket science,but Remco was proved his effectiveness generally at festivals.Festivals um he's prettypassionate about making sure the bands he works forsound good because it's big timeego gratification for him um iflike if people go around and say you guys sounded really great you know youknow and so he's he's very competitive in that regard which worked in our favoryeah sure did you guys sounded great at the festival i went to the Primavera in Porto.That was a fantastic show.Yeah. I'm happy that I see Barcelona didn't sound very good.Um, cause Remco didn't come to the practices, um, had trouble getting his visa.So he was completely unprepared for Barcelona.He didn't really even have Rebecca turned up.Track 3[13:08] And then a lot of the stuff that I'd learned because she's in the band now,um, Which I hadn't done before, weren't even turned on in Barcelona.And then in Porto, I'm not sure if you're aware of it,but I showed up for sound check and the bright blue case that had all of mybits and bobs of percussion,some of which I'd had since the early 90s, got stolen.Are you fucking kidding me? No, I didn't know that. No, I had no gear.I had no gear. I didn't even have anything to mount.I didn't have a tambourine that you can hit, and I didn't have anything to mount it on.And I had no tambourine maracas, cowbells, whistles, all my tricks, and claves.And thank goodness that Rebecca...Track 3[14:16] Was in the band because at first rebecca was just going to kind of come out there,and do keyboard parts and either comeand go or just kind of sit there and she's areally good i mean she's a great drummer and she'sa really good percussionist um so i said no you'regonna do something on every song andthen we you know quickly find out found out that she cando background vocals on anything and that'sgreat she can scream and obviously andshe's also very joyful performer um and she was you know she's a good very goodpercussionist so thankfully i was able to use some of her stuff um that nightbut it was still was not my stuff i I mean, it was very,very, it would be like if.Track 3[15:11] Well, actually, I think it kind of, I mean, it would be like if,like, guitars got stolen from a guitar player.I mean, that actually, it happened to Dinosaur, I think maybe in Porto,Dinosaur Jr., all their guitars got lost and they were still in Italy when they played.Oh my god yeah so theyhad to play i think they bought guitars um youknow that's so whatever i meani'm happy that it was me because if ithad been like anybody elsethen they probably would have had a harder time i mean i was able to just youkept it cool i'll just wing it you know what what i mean like it was funny becausenobody you know people you kind of realize the level of.Track 3[16:07] How, uh, you know, the, the immense level, you know, of your bandmates,they're kind of focused on their own deal.Like they couldn't deal with that.My bad news. Um, only Rebecca could like only Rebecca could like,you know, I mean, she's great.She's great. she was really a neat addition likereally uh from the fondashow i mean i went to the fonda show that was justit was mind-blowing that was a that was my favoriteshow of the tour like that was the first i can see why i mean it was long ifyou're a big fan i mean we played tons of songs and it sounded fine and it wassmall and the atmosphere was good and i mean at least 90 90% of the people inthere were way into the band. Oh, yeah.So, I mean, it was kind of an ideal time to see Pavement because we were freshoff the shelf and in a mode where we kind of had to give everything a go.Yeah, it was tremendous to be a part of it and experience it.One thing I wanted to talk to you about was Rebecca Clay Cole and you know, her, um.Track 3[17:29] Her contributions, I suppose, to the overall pavement experience,like, um, is she sort of a permanent member at this point? Is she coming to South America?I mean, of course she's coming to South America, right?Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, that's it. And that's it. I mean, right now that's it. Sure. Sure.It's 2024. You guys have been on the road for two years, man.Yeah we haven't done anything those for a long time we haven't done anything since um cincinnati,and um it's going to kind of be interesting because one good thing about southamerica is we don't obviously haven't played there um a couple of the places we've never played and,and we've only played three shows down there ever so we can just you know basicallyplay we don't have to learn 70 pavements to relearn 70 payment songs you know not that,not that they're immensely challenging but at the same time.Track 3[18:35] You know i basically could make the four set lists nowand um you knowwe're you know it's not going to be you won'tbe hearing um greenlander no butuh you go with the uh you go with theessentials not the deep cuts yeah and i think we've got i think i'm in a listof 32 that i sent out to them about six six weeks ago oh that's good yeah soundsall right well if i come into any money i'll see you in uh i'll see you in southamerica but let us know yeah yeah let us know i But,you know, times are tough.Well, should we talk about track number, what is it? Track number 33 on thecountdown? Okay, that's pretty good.All right, let's do it. Yeah, that's pretty good.Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement.Track 1[19:32] Thanks for listening, and now on with a countdown. 33!Track 3[23:28] Okay, that was Transport is Arranged from the fourth record released February11th, 1997, Bright in the Corners.It's the third track on the album, and it's the sixth song from Bright in theCorners that is on the countdown at this point.So Bright in the Corners is representing the bottom portion of this top 50 so far.Bob, what do you think about Transport is Arranged? Jamie.I just think that, first of all, it's cool to hear that Bright in the Cornersgot a lot of action, having a lot of love.It is a very listenable pavement record. I love it.And I think Transport is Arranged, when the record was made in Kernersville,North Carolina with Mitch Easter,was just kind of viewed and the feel around it was that, okay,that's another song that definitely should be on the record.Track 3[24:33] Um but isn't the kindof song that um it youknow maybe should be a single or something like that it was just it was justa song that was like really solid and good and then as the song got played overand over again on tour and over the years um i think it's become rather clear to me that,you know, aside from kind of the more bubblegum-y songs on the record like Stereo and Shady Lane,that it would have stood up as a truly special pavement song.And I just think that it's, for the most part, an outstanding example of,Of not only Stephen's songwriting ability and composing, but I just think it'san unusually good set of lyrics.I'm with you. When I think about like verse three, I swung my fiery sword,I vent my spleen at the Lord.He is abstract and bored, too much milk and honey.Well, I'll walk through the wilderness with nothing but a compass and a canteensetting the scenes. I mean, it just got this certain depth.Track 3[25:57] Of course, you know, I am the worst of my kind. I want to cremate the crush.It's funny, some people think that that's crutch, but it's I want to crematethe crush actually has a lot of personal importance to me because that's anexpression I used to use.Track 3[26:17] Really? Yeah, Cremate the Crush. I would actually say that that's a valid lyricalcontribution from my notebook that was usurped by Balchmus,which he was more than welcome to do that.That um cremate the crush was often used when one of your mates had um regardless of.Track 3[26:45] Gender orientation had fallen really really hard for somebody and it becameclear to yourself and everyone around that it wasn't going to work and it was a really bad idea.Track 3[26:58] And um so you had to pull your friend and that believe me that happens whetheryou're You know, no matter how old you are, you know, sometimes you just,um, I think we've all seen it in our lives.We've seen people that fall really hard for the wrong person and rather thanjust sit back and watch them go through a very vile, um, heartbreak,um, an effort needs to be made to cremate the crush.Um wow and that's the expression that i used um all right man like this is ridiculouslike because you see it all the time like yes obviously amongst my dude friends like dude man,you're really barking up the wrong tree there you knowwhat i mean not yeah whatever whatever series of reasons umbut really transport is arranged umas that song got played there's a a really unusually goodversion of it really good recording and filming from an italian show that wedid um it's on youtube um oh i'll have to look that up mouth miss had reallyreally short hair um it was this really strange festival that i believe wassomewhere in the vicinity of venice um.Track 3[28:18] And it was one of these festivals that you turn up to in the early afternoon,and the people are still, like, kind of making the stage, and you're sort of,like, in this state of disbelief that any concert's actually going to happen there today.And this was the vibe. We were just like, whoa.Oh, you know, because usually it's like, you know, the Heineken banners arealready up and like, you know, the kids are already listening to,you know, a band that sounds like Green Day and, you know, people are drinkingor you see the tent village.This festival, it looked like they'd gotten the days wrong, and it was goingto happen two or three days, but somehow they whipped it all together,and we played a very memorable version of Transport is Arranged.Track 3[29:13] And you know it pretty much became a staple of ourlive show from the bright in the corners tourforward um it's just has a good um mid-tempo vibe to it good lyrics good guitarlove the tone of his voice the tone of his voice is really like in a sweet spot,i agree i just say to me it's just like a great pavement song it's always really relaxing um,kind of in a grounded sort of way but like even more relaxing and like,yeah i mean some people you know at times think that pavement doesn't rock andthen when we actually do rock we're just like pretending to be hardcore or pretendingto be like jokey metal or or something like that.I actually feel like Transporter is arranged, if it's played with a proper punch,kind of is truly a rock and roll song.Oh, when you get to that, when you get past the solo and you guys all get intoit, it sounds so tight and it sounds.Track 3[30:23] Yeah, it sounds very tight and it sounds very rocky, you know,like rock and roll. It rocks.It's a great rock and song. it kind of stomps and but then it gets really mellowit just has really really good dynamic and yeah I can tell you like wheneverI put it on a set list we don't,We don't really start with it because it doesn't, you know, sometimes songswith like kind of a very mellow lead in, it's not such a good idea.But you can sort of stick it after anything kind of noisy.Track 3[31:00] And then, so then people can sort of like return to like sort of a serene vibe.And then after a certain period of time, it kicks back in again.So, um, I just love, um, I love that song and it's always a pleasure to see,to put it on a list and see it coming up.And, um, in fact, depending on who I'm talking to, if they've never heard Pavement before, um,and I sort of get a general idea that they like rock music, then it's a songthat I would almost play first.First um to sort of youknow give them a feel and then when i do play transportersrange they're like oh okay like yeah like 90s umcollege rock or something and uhyeah yeah which is fair special it'smore special than that but i i hear you you knowbut i'm talking about complete newbiles they umbecause if you play them something toocute or i mean obviouslyyou know i'm in the horse racing profession and there's a lot of people thatyou play father to a sister of thought and range life and other sort of countrytin songs because they you know would absolutely there's a lot of people i knowa lot of my friends um who know of pavement don't like pavement because.Track 3[32:26] It to them it sounds too harsh um youknow because a lot of people don't really have any punk rock backgroundright okay um they don't want to hear anythinglike unfair or serpentine pador they don't want to hear anything medium fire lo-fi like debris slide or forklifti mean like something like forklift just sounds like 13 year olds making a horribleracket um to them like they don't see the cool in that you know yeah um youknow of course There's...Track 3[33:01] I mean, I haven't listened to it on vinyl in a long time, but Forklift,you know, I remember it sounding kind of maniacal and frenzied in a very 1990ssort of way, which was kind of cool.But I can understand, but Transport Is Arranged kind of ticks all the boxes,like Grounded would sound like kind of like too much, like a stoner type thing to people.People um shady lane might sound kind oflike listless summer babes kindof repetitive and some people might think like ohyou guys wanted to be nirvana or somethingum which we certainlydid not um that didn'tlook like much fun to me and uh but yeah no i just i just love the song andi think that it's it should definitely not be a forgotten song transport isarranged i think it It should be sort of at the forefront of anybody makinga mixtape or a tape of 10 to 15 pavement songs.I like that. Yeah, it stands up. So then you would say on the countdown,it's underrated at 33, right?Yeah, and I would, I mean, for me, it would always be in my top five.Top five? Holy shit, Bob.Yeah, it would be in my top five.Track 3[34:26] Unquestionably top 10 But probably top 5 In fact people ask you know sometimes like,You know, one lazy question by anybody is like, what's your actual favorite pavement song?And, you know, when you say transport is arranged, you're not being entirely obvious.And then if they've only heard 10 pavement songs or 15 pavement songs or justthe hits, then you're kind of forcing them to listen to a great pavement songthat they may have not heard before.So it would unquestionably be in my top five um it's under four minutes i mean um,i really am very much of the you know when it comes to a band that's a rock band in sort of the,three minute form like pavement is i mean um you know my general belief.Track 3[35:23] Maybe it has to do with attention span or something like that but songs overfive minutes better bepretty awesome for you to justify them being thatlong agree um totally agree it's alittle pretentious brilliant right there's somany great bands who have made somany great songs and they just fall preyto loving their groove so hard thatthey do it one or two passes too manyand a song thatmight have had like you know major appeal whetherit be like sort from a venom sense or from a sweetnesssense is just um losesits effect if it'sgot too much length so um i thinkit weighs in under four minutes i think it's you know it's i think it's fourminutes are justified i don't think there's any wasted motion i think it's gotgood dynamics and again one of malcolm's best sets of lyrics um you know andi think you know obviously.Track 3[36:30] David and Stephen were both very good lyricists and, you know,David's a poet. He was celebrated for it.And I think that David, you know, was an influence on Stephen and sort of challengedhim from a lyric writing perspective and would get annoyed when Stephen wasbeing too lazy about lyrics.And I think very much in, you know, the Stevens sense,it's a unusually or just a very good set of lyrics from a lyricist who had atthat point very much found his way.You know, something that had been sort of a discardable aspect of the band,even to an extent through a lot of Slanted and Enchanted.And then, you know, I mean, some people think that his lyrics are just garbled nonsense.And to an extent, you know, by intent, they are, you know, fairly good.Track 3[37:44] Senseless but i mean you know i think of songs like um this song and from acompletely different era um lyrics like trigger cut um i just think that youknow he he's he does not get,the he gets the respect he deserves as a guitar player but perhaps not as alyricist i think you know transport his range has both yeah i'd agree totallyagree what is the whole pillars of eight thing. Do you have any insight on that?What's that? The pillars of eight. Do you have any insight on that?No, no, no, I don't really have anything of that.I think it probably has to do with, um, just, uh, you know, then you're falling into him.Um, and I think you've probably seen some of his scrawlings and notebooks and stuff like that.Um, you fall into him choosingexpressions and just simply sortof loving words and how they look andhow they sound coming out of his mouth and then sothen using uh you know sets of a set of words like pillars of eight and puttingin a place where it's going to fit you know obviously that you know eight rhymeswith a lot a lot of things and fit you know i'm saying so yeah yeah you know he's.Track 3[39:06] When you're in a situation where not only are you going to have to write lyrics but,you're going to also have them umanalyzed then i think that you force yourself to you know put a certain amountof time into that process and i think throughout the course of um his entire songwriting history.Track 3[39:38] I think, you know, perhaps it's a bit freeing since Pavement ended that thingsare a little bit less under the microscope.Track 3[39:47] But certainly in 1997, they, you know, were very much under the microscope.In fact, this album, I remember getting really slammed by a writer at a majormusic publication for the lyrics in Blue Hawaiian.Um, they were actually misconstrued as sexist in, um, this, um,particularly the line, the slap is a gift. Your cheeks have lost their luster.Um, Oh my God. I would have never put that together.I would have got there from that. You know, this slap is a gift.I mean when Imean then you know in some ways like um you could see how the journalist madethat point I suppose but I mean I yeah like you I never really thought alongthose lines because maybe if you know the person and you know that they're notlike a misogynist creep then,you don't even really think about them in that context but um perhaps um thatperson did and I just remember, you know, when you write songs,which I don't do, then you are just like any type of writer,you are susceptible to...Track 3[41:10] To criticism and then you know then of course you've you'vereached a certain mantle when your lyrics are being pickedapart and every pick of you in detail is being brought to the fore um and butthat's like also a compliment that people you know care that much about whatyou write that's um yeah but you know at the same time like you know some things that are almostlike unfathomable to a songwriter, um,come to the, you know, come, come to the floor when, when people go over them with a fine tooth comb.Um, but, uh, no, I've never really heard anybody moan about Brighton the Corners,um, lyrics and, you know, maybe it's because it is like in the thirties.Um, but I really don't think it should be a forgotten song.I think that in some ways it's as good as Late Period,and when I say Late Period, I would say albums four and five,as good as Pavement was in terms of sounding like Pavement.I mean, there isn't much of Terror Twilight,which can be described as sort of typically pavement,but there is on Bright in the Corners, and you definitely cannot describe asong like Stereo as typically pavement.Track 3[42:40] So, yeah, no, pleasure talking about one of my favorite pavement songs, Jamie.Me Bob it's been a pleasure talking to you period it always is anytime man I'mbasically just basking in the glorious winter sunlight here in Paris that'sspectacular yeah with my unmade bed,And, um, I don't even know what I'm going to do.I actually have to go grocery shopping, but yeah, a pleasure,pleasure to talk to you and good luck with all of your endeavors.And, uh, let me know if you need anything more from me.Awesome. Thanks so much. Always, you know, uh, shall I remind you again that,um, Steve West would probably be, you know, gladly help, um, help you out.Oh, I'll ask him. Yeah.He'll definitely do it. Cool. I can also hook you up with Rebecca if you want her to do one.It would be cool. That would be really cool because then I could ask her thatquestion that you planted in my head.Yeah, it'd be really good actually, because then, then you'd be the first,um, prominent music journalist that tackled that question.Track 3[43:51] Anyways, love you, mate. And, uh, have, have a, have a great,uh, Canadian afternoon and I'll, I'll, uh, pass on.You've got all the Wes information, right? I do. Yeah.Yeah. I'll pass on Rebecca's. Cool. Oh, all right. All right.Take care of yourself and keep on flying the flag.You betcha. All right. Enjoy yourself. My pleasure.One more thing. Wash your goddamn hands.Thanks for listening.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Sintonía: "5-4 = Unity" - Pavement"Passat Dream" y "Starlings of the Slipstream", extraídas del 4º álbum titulado "Brighten The Cornes" (Everlasting Records, 1997)"Spit On A Stranger", "Folk Jam", "You Are A Light", "Major Leagues", "Billie", "Speak, See, Remember" y "... and Carrot Rope", extraídas del 5º y último disco de la banda californiana ("Terror Twilight", Domino Records, 1999)"Blue Hawaiian", "We Are Underused" e "Infinite Spark", extraídas de "Brighten The Corners"Bonus track: "All My Friends" extraída de la edición 10º aniversario de "Crooked Rain Crooked Rain" (Domino, 2004)Todas las músicas compuestas e interpretadas por Pavement Relación de fechas de emisión de los dos anteriores capítulos:"Slanted & Enchanted" (1992) y "Crooked Rain Crooked Rain" (1994) (Emitido el 14/02/2024)"Wowee Zowee" (1995) y "Brighten The Corners" (1997) (1ª Parte) (Emitido el 18/03/2024)Escuchar audio

jD is back and he's joined by Daniel from Chicago to discuss his Pavement origin story and dissect track number 38. Transcript: [0:00] Hey, it's JD here, and I just wanted to throw something down, somewhat of a challenge to all you musically inclined folks out there.We are going to be doing a pod list again this year, and a pod list is simply a podcast playlist.It's a pod list. The previous four pod lists have consisted of talented members of our Pavement community submitting songs that they have covered from the Pavement oeuvre.Pavement adjacent songs are also welcome. So you could do PSOI, you could do Jicks, you could do Malcolm is Solo.Anything is fair game, truly. So get your band together or grab an acoustic guitar and just play your fucking guts out.From there, submit the song to me by email and we'll go from there.So please submit those songs, jd at meetingmalkmus.com, or even better, use wetransfer.com if it's a big WAV file. And WAV files are what I prefer.That will work out just magnificently. That's what she said.Podlist 5 coming July 8th. So get those songs in and be a part of something special. Thanks so much.Now, on with the show.Track 3:[1:24] Previously on the pavement top 50.Track 2:[1:27] What do you have to say dan from rochester about playbook oh man so um first of all when i i listened to this a lot this week and there's three versions so i did some some deepdiving into comparing the different like studio versions that are out there but the first thing that surprised me was the length is relatively short it's slightly less than three and a half minutesand to me that song always felt like very epic.Track 3:[1:58] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band, Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.Track 4:[2:05] Hey, it's J.D. here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for the seminal indie rock band, Pavement.Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballots.I then tabulated the results using an abacus and a six-pack.[2:24] Okay, there were only four left, but I was thirsty. see how will your favorite pavement song fare in the ranking you'll need to tune in to find out so there's that this week we're joinedby pavement superfan daniel daniel how are you doing motherfucker uh doing good how are you i am excellent today it's a bright and sunny day out i did a 10k walk it's uh just fantastic itis a good day it's like i'm in chicago and it's uh 50 degrees and so that's like summer so yeah right to have that in february is like just another another planet it's amazing yeah so let's getright into this let's talk about your pavement origin story daniel from chicago i am from a town in the south called montgomery alabama Okay.And I'm also 45, late Gen Xer.Discovering music in the early 90s, you really had to try to search out cool stuff, and especially in a shitty town like Montgomery, Alabama. Alabama.[3:42] There were like only one record store that was independent and you kind of had to like know a person to get there. And.[3:52] So that's a big part of my origin story is I am from a shitty place.And the more I get to know pavement, I realize that Stockton is a lot like Montgomery.It's strip malls and crime and not a lot to do, not a lot of real culture.So I see that connection now.When I was a teenager, I was into classic rock like Neil Young and Bob Dylan and Steve Miller Band, I guess, was my intro to what my dad showed me about rock and roll.But I started 10th grade and I noticed a guy had the iconic pavement sunny side up shirt. Right.And I said, this guy knows something. He kind of shined with this aura.And at the time, I didn't know much about indie rock or alternative rock.But I knew a lot about film.I was into Tarantino, and that led me to John Woo and other independent film.[5:17] I knew a lot about beat literature, like Kerouac and Ginsberg, Burroughs.So we met, and he helped me with the pavement and the Sonic Youth. We traded CDs.I traded VHS, independent film, with him.And we eventually started a shitty noise band in his garage.Oh, that is so cool. Yeah. Yeah. And we talked about Pavement and Sonic Youth, Daydream Nation.At the time, I think Crooked Rain was the big one, and Wowie was pretty big on our playlist.List um but i'm really thankful for that meeting and his taste was just um beyond anything of people from montgomery so i that's my story and i i continue to love pavement my entire lifehas been my favorite band and i felt very special uh having them as a part of my life and i i'm not sure who it was that said.[6:38] I think it might be Mark Arm from Mudhunt Honey said, when you listen to Pavement, you feel smarter.And I feel like I'm in on some kind of secret.Yeah. And I feel enlightened when I listen to Stephen Moutmiss and his poetry and his lyrics.I feel smarter. And coming from a place of like education was not valued and no culture, it meant a lot for me to like have pavement as this kind of avant-garde art band that led me todifferent bigger cities and bigger ideas.Is so so what was take take me through your experience daniel take me through that so you saw him wearing the sunny side up shirt what was the first spin like like what did you spin firstif you remember i remember and and what was going on in your head when you heard it i got crooked crooked rain crooked rain first and i remember the disc and people these days missout on the artwork of the disc right it's got that layer of like kind of red and maroon art.[8:01] And i spun it and i was like first off i've never heard uh a vocalist sound like this before right and i was like is he singing or is he like speaking um and they're in the liner notesthere's a picture of like a singer but i always thought it was that that was mouth mess or that was spiral stairs i wasn't sure but it turns out it's like just a random collage um i wasn't sure ifthe the singer was playing guitar or was just like singing.Wow. Like something from a different world completely. And unlike any music.[8:46] That i've uh ever encountered even since it's um now i can kind of associate what not miss was doing with like lou reed yes big time uh but at the time it was just like what is thisvocalist doing and then there were parts of the guitar playing it was like kind of dissonant guitar and i was like is are these guitars even in tune like it sounds like noise in some parts but somelodic and others and so melodic and others and that's their secret yeah um.[9:25] And then i started listening to the lyrics um the first song that comes to mind i wrote on my uh we used to have book covers of paper to cover the book i wrote the entire uh lyrics forstop breathing this is like the most poetic I don't know what he's talking about but I was also I went to it like an art high school and I was in creative writing and I would do my best to tryto emulate in my poetry what mountainous was doing with like his prose or his lyrics right Right, okay.So he was talking about, I think, stuff around a father-son relationship in that song, and I had struggles with my dad, and as we all probably do.Sure. And I was like, abstractly, he's talking about stuff that is really hitting home.And so there were some songs I didn't get at first, like...[10:39] But yeah we'll talk about some of that stuff later sure okay yeah um so that was your first experience with them and crooked rain what a great jumping off point and just to followup on you know like who's playing what and what are they doing it wasn't like you could tune into mtv at the time and see a great deal of pavement you know and and sort of match it uplike you could with with other bands.You know, in this case, they were so rarefied.It would be tough to get your hands on, you know, live footage or anything like that. So that leads me to my next question.When did you see them live? Did you see them live?First, my first concert by them was.[11:28] It must have been early my first semester at auburn university i went uh started uh 97, i went to birmingham alabama at a place called the nick i think that's what it is and so it musthave been september or october of 1997 and it was a like maybe uh, 100, 200 person venue. It was a very small venue.And me and my two friends from Auburn, we got there nerdy, super early and waited at the rail of the front row.[12:18] And it turns out that we were right across from Spiral Stairs guitar setup.Okay. And it was in support of Right in the Corners.So, amazing show.I think at the time, what they were doing was they were playing about 15 songs with an encore of three songs. And they played Credence.Sinister Purpose was their cover that they played.And they they had their set list on paper plates which i thought was very diy and cool and spiral at the end of the set uh he picked up his paper plate threw it like a frisbee and i caught it soi had the the set list i don't have it anymore but oh damn one time it was in my dorm it was in a collection as i moved around the country of course of course but i wish i had had thatamazing moment.Probably, I would say it's probably my third or fourth concert ever. Um, and.[13:35] I went to REM and Radiohead in support of Monster. That was my first.So it's in good company.Yeah, I bet. So how did you find like-minded people in uni?Was it easy or did you have to seek them out like you did in high school?Or how did you find your compatriots to go to that show with?This is so funny. uh the first day of english class the teacher asked what what what do we like and get to know you ice icebreaker questions and me and this guy cleave we both put thesame bands we really liked pavement number one lemon heads number two rem number three we we wrote those identically, and it's it's like this uh serendipitous kind of thing happenedwith us and we became, very close friends and at the time he was like really into pink floyd and i said hey man you got to get really back into pavements better than pink floyd so weobsess over our mutual love of malchmas and uh pavement so that that's how that connection happened but other times in my life i've never really found someone who says pavement's myfavorite band and maybe you're my probably my.[15:04] Like third person i they always seem to be like a french band no one is like so obsessed like i am or possibly you are.And that's okay with me. Like, this is something, it's very special kind of in this time where everything feels like homogenized.I'm glad that this is a special thing for a few of us.Yeah, I think so too. We can unite in that, unite in our solodom.In our solitude. dude. Um, What's your go-to record these days?[15:51] Well, it's grown. It's changed over time. Of course. As it should, probably.I think the most bang for your buck and artistic expression of what they represent is Wowie Zowie.Sure. Yeah, I can get behind that. It is their version of the White Album in that it is so many different genre attempts.And it feels loose it feels fun um it's thematically all over the place yeah and, i just it just feels like a real expression of what they were going for as a band yeah i i i'm not sure if it's likethe best album but for me i think it feels like pavement and what they wanted um and the the go-to for me i hope it makes your list is uh grave architecture okay i find that to bequintessential uh a pavement song but yeah Yeah, it's just so all over the place and wacky that I love it.What do you say we take a quick break and we come back on the other side of track number 38?Sounds good. All right, cool.Track 3:[17:18] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening.And now on with a countdown.Track 2:[17:26] 38.Track 4:[20:04] Alright, track 38 is Date with Ikea, the first spiral jam on the countdown.It's the fifth from Pavement's fourth record, Bright in the Corners, after Blue Hawaiian at 50, Embassy Row at 44, Old to Begin at 43, and Starlings of the Slipstream at 40.Without further ado, number 38, Date with Ikea.Daniel from Chicago.Hey. Talk to me about your experience with this song.Well, it was the first Pavement album that I was able to buy on its release date.So it has a special place.It was released, I think it's April 17th, 1997.97 and i good went to my local mall and walked in and bought this album and, it's a banger it's a really fucking good album and 100% it's it it rocks and this song is a rocker and you feellike there's some shimmering layered guitar going on yeah Yeah. Um.[21:30] I'm not sure what the song's about. It feels like... Tough to discern.At the time, I didn't know what Ikea was.Now I know. I think it's a Norwegian furniture store, wholesale furniture.[21:50] So now I think I know what the meaning of the song is.Because I've had a date with Ikea. I bought a house, and I've had to go to Ikea to celebrate needing furniture.And I remember going to Ikea going, oh, this is what the song is about.Maybe domestication.Maybe it's a union.I like domestication. Yeah. But the lyrics are about a relationship strife.The actress is always breaking things. That made me think something's going wrong in the relationship or he's annoyed with his partner.Not sure. But Spiral's songs have always had their own feel to them.And this feels like a quintessential uh spiral stairs song not what what else does it sound like in those years maybe uh like super chunk like no pocky for kitty, i don't know if you know ofany other bands that might sound like but.[23:08] No, because it's tough, because his cuts sort of stand alone on a pavement record, because they're so radically different than the stuff that SM does, right?I think that's what I'm trying to get at, yeah.[23:24] But lyrically, you can go down the same bottomless pit with both of their lyrics.I think Malk tends to be, he's got the turn of phrase, right?He's got the gift for a turn of phrase in a way that Spiral doesn't necessarily have the same horsepower at this stage in the game.If you listen to PSOI, like that first record, All This Sounds Gas, man, is he firing on all cylinders on that record.I think so. So that is prime beef.And I love it. Uh, his two outings on brighten the corners are both, you know, I think they're both a great jumping off point for what you need to get from, from spiral. That's just my take.I think you're right. Uh, the idea that it can be on the same album and feel so different.[24:25] Right. And I'm okay with that. Sort of their secret weapon in a way, right i think so i there and i'm in a lot of ways i'm not sure uh spirals influence on what mountainous does that'skind of a mystery i i believe it showed up more on probably slanted and yeah the early stuff yeah the eps off the top i think they were much more collaborative collaborative but i'm likingwhat i hear this this is a rocker this feels like it's got the.[25:04] Almost like a classic rock feel to it of maybe tom petty in there and the heartbreakers, but um got the sing-along chorus here's the a weird thing about uh the spiral Spiral stuff.When I would go to the shows, the crowd would cheer so much for Spiral.It was almost like we were rooting for this underdog.[25:40] And when spiral was playing his, uh, cuts like mountainous, what it seemed like he didn't know what he was supposed to be doing.He would not, he wouldn't have a guitar part to it. He, he would just kind of like Panama. I'm playing guitar.And, but I noticed how much the crowd would get behind, uh, like spirals chance to shine.Shine so you happen to see any dates on the most recent tour in 2022 i did i saw one of the chicago okay i found that steve was much more uh on board with the spiral stuff if if for lack ofa better term if he wasn't on board in the earlier years and i don't know that i'm i'm prescribing that on him.I shouldn't, but I sort of am.And I just feel like they were much more cohesive, like band-wise, this time out.I saw the same thing, and I think I read in interviews where Mountmess before had seemed kind of apprehensive to put his ball in the pavement court, per se.He was very much on board with being a band that was reuniting and good vibes in general yeah but at the time i think what you notice about uh.[27:07] Bright in the corners is oh he's starting to get his own voice mountainous right and it's, it has to feel um daunting to have other people in the band wanting to collaborate whenyou're you're like really finding your groove.So with Wowie, there's, I think, maybe one spiral cut, Brighton two, but then with Terror zero, you're starting to see, Mount Missus realizing that I have something to say and I want it tobe the singular vision.[27:53] That's just my take. I add a lot of meaning and interpretation that might not be there.No, that's what we do with our favorite bands, right?They add, they give us that to sort of interpret. But I feel like.[28:09] Mount miss really was hitting his groove and maybe spiral was hitting his groove as well and they just it was a sign that they needed to take some time off hey listen i don't want tomake this comparison too apt but it's interesting to me that having watched the beatles documentary george is shut out of that song and then he immediately rips off all things must passwhich which is a double record, which just shows like how he had all these songs in the bag.And it's like, how did John and how did John and Paul not include any of his stuff on Let It Be?And then, you know, 40 years later or 30 years later, you have Terror Twilight, which I think is sorely lacking a spiral song.Like, I think that there's part of that record that, that, you know, because a lot of people, it's their number five.And I think it's their number five, because it doesn't sound like a pavement record, necessarily.It sounds lush and rich, production-wise.I continue to call it a beta test for Steve's first solo record.[29:27] It's just interesting to me that it's lacking this something, and I think that something is a Spiral Gem. you might be on to something with that.And, and I'm, I'm, I'm, while I'm glad they both had a great solo careers, um, it is, it's sort of missing something.Yeah. So where do you think in terms of the ranking, this comes in at 38, what do you think, uh, is it properly rated?Is it overrated? Is it underrated? Uh.[30:02] I'm a little, I've been thinking about this. I think it might be overrated.If you would have asked me in 1997, I would have said it should be up there in the 30s.I don't think this has aged for me as well as it should have. I don't know.[30:25] Nowadays, I listen to Brighton and I go, what's the song three on there?Oh, he had to ask me that.I'm cool and underqualified is who I am. I don't have that stuff at my fingertips. No, I've got this.So if you listen to Transport is Arranged. Okay.Going right into Old to Begin. Yeah. Those...It kind of is in between transport and old to begin.And I feel like those are like way stronger songs.Like, and also those are songs where Malcolm is really starting to have his own voice.And it's like very unique rock.And I think those songs, since I heard old to begin, it's like 44 or 43.I I think it's I think those two songs Transport and Old to Begin, are better than Date with Ikea so for some reason I'm feeling like.[31:40] The lack of cohesion of this album, give it a shot, listen to it without Date With Ikea.It's a different album, and it's an interesting choice by the engineers and the producers to put Date in between those two.I think it should be ranked lower. I'm sorry, JD. No, that's okay.That's why I asked the question.[32:08] Hopefully uh transport somewhere in the top 50 i think that's such a a fucking rocker and it's so heavy at the end um but yeah i would put date and probably in my uh, a little bitlower would it crack the top 50 still i don't think so i if i'm going to be completely honest it's going to be in the lower 50 maybe 60s or 70s okay wow you heard it here here first folks stilllove it chicago still love it though it's one of his children but he just disparaged it uh daniel do you have anything that you would like to plug at all is there anything that you're known foron the internet or oh let me tell you i am a therapist here in chicago and i uh as you can see by my uh many plaques on the wall i'm trained to do uh psychotherapy Therapy in the westernsuburbs of Chicago.If you know anyone that wants therapy or wants to try it out for the first time, I specialize in anxiety, depression, addiction, and men's issues.Oh, boy. I ticked a few of those boxes.[33:26] My greatest hits right there. Yeah. Well, it's been great talking to you, and I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. So thanks for that.Thank you for having me on. It's my pleasure.Wash your goddamn hands.Track 3:[33:43] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcomus, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you.If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email.JD at meetingmalcomus.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

jD is back and he's with Dan from Rochester to discuss track 39!Transcript:[0:00] Hey, it's JD here, and I just wanted to throw something down, somewhat of a challenge to all you musically inclined folks out there.We are going to be doing a pod list again this year, and a pod list is simply a podcast playlist.It's a pod list. The previous four pod lists have consisted of talented members of our Pavement community submitting songs that they have covered from the Pavement Ouvra.Pavement adjacent songs are also welcome. So you could do PSOI, you could do Jicks, you could do Malcolm is Solo.Anything is fair game, truly. So get your band together or grab an acoustic guitar and just play your fucking guts out.From there, submit the song to me by email and we'll go from there.So please submit those songs, jd at meetingmalkmus.com, or even better, use wetransfer.com if it's a big WAV file. And WAV files are what I prefer.That will work out just magnificently. That's what she said.Podlist 5 coming July 8th, so get those songs in and be a part of something special. Thanks so much.Now, on with the show. Previously on the.Track 2:[1:26] Pavement Top 50 So Cam from Toronto What do you think Of Starlings of the Slipstream This is a great little song I love I love this song just as a stand alone item I love this songGoing right into the song Finn To wrap up that album But those might actually be My two favorite songs Right in the corners What a great one to punch to close things out Finn isprobably actually my favorite song on that album.Track 4:[2:05] Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band, Pavement.Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 Ballads.I then tabulated the results using an abacus and six boxes of M&Ms.How will your favorite song fare in this ranking? Well, you'll need to tune in to find out. So there's that.[2:31] This week, we're joined by Pavement superfan, Dan from Rochester.[2:35] I can see you right across the lake dan hey toronto oh do you remember when there was the ferry for a couple years i heard tales of that yeah yeah people were more interested ingoing to toronto from rochester and i don't think the torontans were very interested in coming here unfortunately i thought it was a cool i thought that's that's what i heard yeah yeah iwould have uh i would love if that was still a thing because uh driving to toronto you have to go all around the lake so yeah exactly it's the shortcut you know it was it was totally perfect inever used it but it was totally yeah yeah so let's talk let's talk about pavement yes let's this is this is why we're all here why we're all gathered around the fire to listen to rochester regale uswith his pavement origin story yeah so take us set the scene yeah set the scene so the scene was the the mid-90s and uh you know i was in high school and uh getting into into music anduh basically you know the internet was new um you couldn't really download songs you know if i needed if i had to if i wanted to hear a song i had to buy the cd so it was kind of uh youknow i had limited funds and limited accessibility to get to a cd store you know we had the one um one place it It was called Media Play.It was like a chain that sold CDs, you know, so it's kind of like a Best Buy or whatever.[4:02] Okay. So, you know, that was, you know, that was what I had to do.So I would sometimes take a chance on bands or CDs that I'd heard about.[4:12] And I had gotten really into R.E.M.And they were like my favorite band during that time. And so I heard about this band called Pavement that had a song about R.E.M., which I thought was so cool.[4:27] So I ended up getting that CD, the No Alternative compilation.I remember that one. Yeah, and it had Nirvana on it, and it had Smashing Pumpkins and a bunch of big bands from that time, and it had Pavement.And so yeah, I got that. So that was the first Pavement song I heard. Yeah.[4:47] And, you know, it was cool. I just loved the novelty because of, you know, a band singing about another band. I just thought it was funny, you know.Sort of meta in a way now. out yeah yeah it was so cool and that really put them on my on the map for me because i was like i was seeking out all the rem stuff all the b-sides you knowand i had a book and stuff so yeah just hearing about that i was like i have to hear that so you know and it was cool you know i loved the song i was starting to move kind of from that likealt rock um kind of scene to getting getting into the more indie stuff and, uh, whatever it was about, uh, pavement, what I had read about, you know, really piqued my interest.And then hearing that song, you know, and it wasn't, I would say like, it's not my favorite pavement song, but like, you know, it's, it's cool.It was fun. I liked it probably now. Yeah. Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah.So, um, and then, uh, and then this was probably in, I I'm guessing just cause of the release date.Yeah. 99. So So probably like months before Pavement broke up, I was doing this.[5:57] And I went to the media play and I bought one of the cheaper CDs that I could find, which I have right here, which is the Spit on a Stranger single EP. Nice.Because it was cost effective, you know? It had five songs and it was pretty cheap.So I don't remember what else they had available at the time, but I took a shot on this and I took it home.I listened to Spit on a Stranger. I loved it.[6:22] I skipped to the porpoise and the hand grenade because I liked the title and you know that song I thought it was good didn't blow me away I don't think but then I went back to tracktwo harness your hopes and that was that was really the one that that cemented it for me that song really yeah which is is awesome because as we know it's a big Spotify hit now in thestreaming era.[6:44] And uh it was back in in 99 that was the hit for me and my friends too we we all really love that that song so uh so that was the one that did it for me and then i started uh startedcollecting them all so and here we are i guess you got into it too right at the right at the point where they started to do the reissues so you were yeah able to get those yeah it was greattiming because yeah that's a good point even though like the band had broken up by that point you know a few years later i was in college and uh for the first time in my life hanging outwith people who also knew who pavement were and the slanted reissue was coming out and it was like a big deal and everyone you know some people were new to pavement so i got tobe like oh you got to hear this you know and so yeah we were it was good times for sure it's it's always cool when you get to be somebody's sherpa you know yeah right that's exactly justguiding them through this you know this mountainous uh region of songs that they don't know exactly yeah yeah and um you know i I had a, I had a radio show at school, so it was fun,uh, digging up all the, all the weird stuff to play and, uh, everyone hanging out.What was your playlist like on, on the radio?Um, you know, uh, let's see, Guided by Voices, of course, big one.[8:09] Um, I, I was into bands like, uh, there's this band, Idlewild, who had just released a record that I thought was really cool.Okay. You know, just all the class, you know, Matador stuff, Yola Tango, of course.Yeah. And, you know, I would get into some weirder stuff, too.Like, you know, I'd play the shags or like, you know, Captain Beepart or, you know, eclectic stuff.Pretty classic. Oh, that must have been fun. Freeform, like college radio.Yeah. Yeah. It was super fun.All my friends were music nerds, you know, so it was just it was a big party every week week hanging out on people's shows and just coming up with cool creative weird uh musicalthings to do so and you know pavement was like the the guiding light you know it was like the the band that united everyone.[8:58] That's so cool because that's i didn't get that experience at all i still you know that was one of the reasons i started the show initially was just i didn't get people to i didn't have peoplein my life to really talk about pavement with so yeah i was like i'll talk about i'll stand on my soapbox and talk into the ether sometimes yeah sometimes it's rare you know to to get tointeract with yeah people like like that you know i met lots of cool people doing it like including it It seems like you have.Yeah. Yeah, man.So if you had to rank the records, you came to Terror Twilight.That would have been your first record that was released in your fandom.Right, right. Where does it rank for you? You know, I always say to myself, like, they're all pretty much more or less equal, equal ranked.I mean, they're all like five star records to me. Agreed. Um, I went through a phase where, um, brighten the corners was my favorite.That was definitely my favorite. And I would say it's not anymore.[10:03] Um, I, I don't know if terror twilight has spent too much time on the top, like the, you know, the, yeah, the personal top slot, but, uh.[10:11] It, it, it deserves, it deserves a spot.You know, I've, um, I've talked to, you know, I have friends who consider that their pavement pavement record and i always say i respect that because some people some people uh viewthat one as maybe like slightly less for some reason and i don't i don't get that at all yeah i don't get that at all and uh yeah i mean we we need terror twilight you know it's just uh the factthat pavement made that record with uh nigel godrich and had that kind of cool uh shiny production production um yeah i mean that's that's so crazy to go from slanted to the back rightand then you have everything in between so it's just yeah it's all it's all good it's all great yeah yeah terror twilight spent some time at the top for me yeah um not not that much but uhbreak the corners is currently my favorite oh nice yeah yeah uh beside watery like i mean i think watery deserves a spot.[11:08] On the mantle all to itself like that's kind of like a very perfect release you know it's like isn't it yeah it's so crazy how good that fucking thing is yeah and then even the even the thesession tracks that didn't make it to the sumi jack greenland greenlander so right like they're all stone cold classics it's bonkers it is it's absolutely bonkers yeah and having those allcollected on on that reissue was just it's so great um i would always listen to those peel session things you know yeah like kentucky cocktail and all that and.[11:48] Back when they were just bootlegs you know just like a tape someone made off the radio so it's it's really nice that um they released proper you know nice sounding quality versionsof those because because westing is on final now right yeah yep yeah i don't have it but uh i i should probably get it because i've got the eps but i've got them built into my wall is likeartwork work you know oh yeah uh like um here i'll show you how cool yeah i have never i've never encountered uh one of those in the flesh um one of those actual eps you know so that'spretty cool yeah it's fun i'll turn on my light for some somehow there we go i'm an old man when it comes to this technology jesus yes right you're doing great i used to do so well i used toknow know at all internet wise and shit but now it's uh well enough about me it happens is there anything else you want to tell us about your pavement origin story should we uh take abreak and you know that pretty much covers it i got you know this again it was early internet so i was i was rocking like the uh the pavement message board back in the day there was alittle community yeah um and uh it it was it was cool it was good times you know i i met some people there that But later on, I actually got to meet in person.And for a few years, that was a pretty cool scene.[13:13] I remember the message board got bought out by another band somehow.I don't even know how that was possible. What? Yeah.So one day, you show up to the message board URL.It was like ProBoards or something where it was like, anyone can start a message board. but I think some other band somehow had the clout or the money or whatever to buy the URL.And, uh, it's like, yeah.Oh man.[13:44] How about shows have you seen any shows oh i knew this was going to come up i have never seen pavement oh that's that's fine i i have seen mulchmas um but yeah you know imissed them uh in the 90s just a little too young coming in late i missed them in the 2010s i don't know really what i was up to but i was kind of um just not in the right area like i mean ilive in rochester i i always have to drive and sometimes i'm just not not up for it and then the newest one i was i was kind of eyeing uh toronto but yeah i didn't make it so oh man i knowbut i've listened to so many live pavement uh bootlegs and shows and stuff uh but yeah my first time seeing mulchmas was on piglib tour oh right you know this is back in college erathat's really when i started going to shows a lot so yeah we went and saw him at the knitting knitting factory i think it was in new york yeah yeah and i saw him open for radiohead i sawhim open for radiohead too in montreal yeah oh sweet yeah yeah mine was uh where was it i think i want to say uh like baltimore area oh cool dc yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well if you getthe chance i mean it seems like Like, they're on the clock.[15:06] You know? Like, I don't know that we're going to get many more.Yeah, I really should. I know it's, you know, I know it'll be amazing.Next time you get the opportunity, right? You have to pull the ripcord.Yeah, I need to. That'll be so cathartic.Well, let's take a quick break here, and we'll come back, and we'll talk about track number 39.Okay Alright Hey this is Bob Nastanovich from Pavement Thanks for listening and now on With a countdown 39.[19:08] Okay, we are back, and that was, of course, Pueblo, the 16th track on Wowie's Alley. It sits between Kennel District and Half a Canyon in a nice little sandwich there toward theback end of the record.This is the fourth Wowie's Alley song on the countdown after Best Friend's Arm at 49.Motion suggests itself at 48, and We Dance at 46.So this is so far the highest ranking Wowie's Alley track at 39.And uh what do you have to say Dan from Rochester about Pueblo?Oh man so um first of all when I I listened to this a lot this week and there's three versions so.[19:46] I did some some deep diving into comparing the different like studio versions that are out there but the first thing that surprised me was the length is relatively short it's slightly lessthan three and a half minutes And to me, that song always felt like very epic to me, maybe just because it's sandwiched toward the end of like, you know, the end of a long, epic record.It's right by like half a canyon and it kind of it vibes with that song.But I would have if you had asked me before how long it was, I would have said like five minutes or something just because it's it has a very languid pace in it.It kind of just sprawls all over the place of language. Thank you. Yes.[20:30] Yeah. So, you know, it felt bigger, I guess, longer than it really is.But, you know, it does what it does in a relatively short time. So that's cool.That really led me on the path to kind of figuring out like, hey, what's going on with the song structure, you know? And it's a simple song, but it has a kind of like spacey jam in the center.Sure does.And that's like, to steal your word, epic. Those guitar swells?Swells yeah you know they make this song so epic and then that blistering blistering is the wrong word because it's not blistering it's it's it's not languid anymore but yeah it's it's crushingit's heavy fucking great so yeah right yeah oh yeah you know um yeah so i i love that that's good mix of, you know, that's the wowie zowie like archetypal sound.It's like the noise, the, the beauty, the catharsis, the kind of surreal, you know, you don't even know really what the song's about until I listened to your earlier episode, which was geez,like three years ago when you first talked about the song on your show and you were, you told a story about how it was about like a hanging thing.[21:48] And remember this at all. Yeah. So I think it was something Malkmus said.It was like, uh, like a story about some, a guy, like a mayor of some Southern California town.And, you know, there was a, there was a guy getting, getting hung or hanged, I guess it is. And, uh, like a love interest.And he, I guess Malkmus had some, you know, story behind it, which I thought was interesting.Which is rare for him really yeah it yeah it it kind of reminds me of a song like pink india you know which he would write much later it's kind of that story song kind of vibe and the songshave similar vibes too in the sense that they're kind of slow and have this guitar part that's kind of lyrical you know and so it it lends itself to telling like some sort of narrative um but alsoSo, like, at that point, Malkmus wasn't really writing narratives that you could, like, parse just by, you know, they might not have defined words or anything.You know, he kind of has, he had a way of just singing stuff and it would be evocative without really, you know, without you being able to tell what he was really trying to communicate.[23:03] So, you know, that's Malkmus' like big talent, I think, or one of them.I do too. like just mashing phrases together that just work rhythmically and from a cadence perspective yeah but they're so obtuse you know yeah yeah um this song i love the dynamicslike i i love that like how it does go from those guitar swells to that again i'm going to use your word again that those you know the the i i called it chill guitar to start and then you go intothe main verse verse with with very slowed down lyrics it takes him almost you know 30 seconds to get the first two lines out you know before you before you get into the thick of thingsquestion for you yes you as soon as you listen to the episode and i did not uh and i have a very poor short-term memory yeah it's very funny i was with some friends yesterday and wewere talking about work uh from 15 years ago and i was naming people's first and last names that you know know we haven't seen in 15 years yeah very good long term but short term boydoes it suck it's uh.[24:10] It's uh i have a difficult time making new memories so yeah it's uh it's a shitty thing but my question here is um who is jacob right right so uh i was pondering this because of coursea few songs earlier on the album he's talking about jacob javits so i'm like you know know that's like a new york city landmark or something like that or that's right yeah um so i was likewell is that connected i don't think so um i mean pueblo so it's on the i mean, Maybe in some subliminal way, but I don't think it's supposed to be the same guy.You've also got this Spanos County, I think that he says.Right. And in the thing you quoted on the other episode, he referred to Spanos as like a person.Like it was a, you know, like this mayor of this town. Oh, okay.Yeah. So, yeah, I really don't know. No, but I think, you know, Jacob, I guess, is the protagonist of the song who's getting ceremonially or unceremoniously murdered.I, you know, I think. But again, in the context, you're not really sure.Is he like pleading? He's saying, you know, Jacob, you move, you don't move.Like, so. It sounds like, doesn't it? Like, if you move, you don't move.Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah.[25:36] And Jacob is also mentioned in the Pueblo Domain version of the song, which is the Peel version of the song.Okay. I was comparing these two.So, you know, that one was recorded.[25:55] Uh in february 94 like a few days before crooked rain came out so you know this song we know has been kicking around for a while uh before it was eventually released and it kindof went through some some changes so the peel session version is it's he's saying like jacob you glow you you know you won't go and um but the the lyrics in there are so very abstracteven you know more so than the album version uh really yeah and it's hard to the the song the the early version is really different too it's it's longer the chorus repeats more times the umand you know there's kind of like more more to the meat of the song and less jam oh okay version yeah so i i always i always thought that version the peel version was was like thesuperior one um but i i never really realized how different they are like they really are um so i kind of i'll send you if you want or i don't know if i can do a screen share here but istructured them out it's probably not too interesting for a podcast but you know i i wrote down like you know verse one chorus one you know and mapped out the two different songs tocompare and they're pretty different they're pretty different yeah the um the wowie zowie version basically does verse chorus chorus, jam, verse, chorus, and then outro.[27:20] And then the Pueblo Domain actually repeats each of the choruses twice. It's twice as long.And then it does verse, two choruses, verse, two choruses, then a little jam, and then it ends on an instrumental version of the chorus.And it's a little louder and more boisterous and energetic. energetic so i uh.[27:48] It's on the Sordid Sentinels. It's on the Crooked Reign. It's on the Crooked Reign? Yeah, so check that one out for sure.Especially, yeah, and just anyone, if you haven't heard that, it's worth checking out the Peel session at the end.Tucked way at the end of that Crooked Reign reissue.They do also Brink of the Clouds, which ended up as a Wauwizawi B-side.[28:14] But it has a section at the end, like the kind of rocket and uh part of the song that's not on the studio version and yeah it's good you know it's cool i just you know pavement doinglike the unreleased songs on the radio sessions was just such a so cool and it's so cool it really lent to their mythos you know the yeah the mythology of the band like what you know theyhave all these songs like where where's all this stuff coming from why why does Malkmus just essentially just throw these gems away kind of thing?So, you know, which goes back to Hold on Hope and all that stuff.You know, he's just, he was so productive around this time, you know, and if you look at those reissues, you know, all the B-sides, all the stray tracks, it's just, it's amazing.[29:03] Yeah. Oh, like from 89 to 93, they were so prolific, right? right? Yeah.And there's so many songs on that Crooked Rain reissue that ended up on Wowie Zowie.So it's almost like right after Slandered and Enchanted was a huge burst of songs that ended up going out into the next two or three albums.Yeah. That's far out. Yeah.So what do you think about where this song is rated?Are you a fan of this song? I am a big fan of the song, but I think it's probably properly rated.It feels right. It feels like a song where...[29:48] Like i do really like it but i think it works best in the context of the album or at least it really shines as as a kind of almost penultimate track on wowie zowie you know it it's almostlike the climax of that album um like the emotional climax along with half a canyon you know just like i can see that yeah you know um and i also i i don't know for sure but i kind offigured that like a lot of pavement fans might not know like it by the title or something because it's not you don't really hear the title in the song no i don't think he sings it in the song hedoes on the peel version oh he does in the first line yeah i didn't realize it for a while but i was just listening and he said something about pueblo right right in like the first line but uh butyou know regardless like it seems like a song that's a deep cut but also well worthy to be a fan favorite you know because it it it's very pavementy it's almost like you couldn't really getmore.[30:50] In a certain like pavement mode of this kind of like it's almost a little countryish but it's just noisy and crunchy it's a little jammy and spacey it's just it's pure pavement yeah i thinkit would fit on watery like i i think you know i think it could like it yeah it's that good you Yeah, oh yeah.And if you hear the other version of the song on Crooked Rain, not the Peel version, but the, they call it the Beach Boys version.Right, yes, yeah. And all that is, is an instrumental. It's that pretty guitar intro and verse melody and everything.And Malkma's doing some just kind of wordless harmonies.[31:34] But just listening to that version, the way the guitar sounds is less twangy and is more sounds like, you know, In the Mouth of Desert or that kind of slanted style.Okay. And you can kind of hear how it fits into that kind of zone and how it kind of changed and fits into the wowie zowie zone where the guitar is more like a little slidey or a little liketwangy.It's really clean, right? Yeah. Like there's no distortion coming through it.Yeah. It's very clean sounding.Yeah. I would guess that, you know, the sound of the song kind of influenced the lyrical direction a little bit.It feels just like a, it feels a little country-ish, a little like desert-y or something.Yeah. There's a lot of that on Wowie Sowie, isn't there? Yeah.But yeah, and to me, that sounds like, I would connect that to sounds from the watery era too.Too, like even like Greenlander is kind of this almost like kind of stark and almost like these desolate songs he was doing around this time, like Rain Ammunition's another other one.Right.I don't know if you talk. Did you talk about like Rain Ammunition on the year first?Didn't get to it. You didn't do like the B-side stuff.Well, the initial thing was to use the bonus feed as B-sides.I think I got through 35 of them.Yeah. there's like 40 episodes on the bonus feed. Now there's the bottom 100 or the bottom 50 of this top 100 as well.[33:02] So I think, well, I can't give it away. I can't tell you that.Don't give anything away.Rain ammunition is on that bottom 50 or not.You know, I don't know. I'm just, I love all those stray songs around this era.So yeah, you know, there's a very defined vibe.Also kind of similar to like the early Silver Juice stuff that Malkmus was on I think you could connect stylistically that kind of like.[33:33] Deserty uh watery domestic slanted vibe and see how it kind of morphed into like the more country, tinged uh wowie zowie thing yeah and that's around the same time that davidwas doing starting to get a bit more twangy as well yeah yeah and i know i talked to bob recently and he you know he talked about how david pushed steve a little bit um well not a littlebit probably a lot lot right like lyrically like there was a lot of competition between those guys you have to think they pushed each other yeah yeah to like i mean how cool is it that thesetwo like amazingly talented guys got to meet and work together in their lives you know it's fucking insane this is really converged yeah and i i get the impression that you know mulchmiss everything kind of came easy to him and i think berman was someone who had to really push himself a little little more, like, you know, maybe like a little more dedication to craft orwhatever.I think he would look at Malkmus as like, you know, what, you know, like, how does he do it kind of guy, you know, just had to kind of like, you know, they had to like one up each othera little bit, you know, like a friendly, competitive kind of thing, you know?Well, I think Bob says, you know, he feels fortunate. I think I've heard him say that he feels fortunate to have worked with one of the best songwriters to ever live and one of the bestlyricists.Yeah, totally. It's so, so cool.[34:58] Yeah, Bob's had a great, lucky, you know, it's awesome for him to be able to work with those guys, I'm sure.Yeah. I can't even imagine. Nope, me neither. Yeah.So, that's what I've got for you this week. Is there anything else that you want to tie up?Is there anything that people can plug or anything that you can plug for people to look up?Sure, yeah, actually. That you're doing? doing uh i uh i'm in a band called rectangle creep and rectangle creep yeah we're pretty um pretty guided by voices influenced and there'spavement and we have 10 000 songs we have we do we have a lot of albums and stuff but if anyone you do have albums oh yeah like you know check check the band camp check theband camp and i do some i have a lot of different projects so So maybe I'll just mention that one, but it's a whole universe of bands and stuff like that. But yeah, it's fun. That's great.[36:00] You know, music is awesome. So go to Bandcamp and search for Rectangle Creep.Yeah, Rectangle Creep. And yeah.[36:08] Cool. Well, it's been great talking to you, man. Yeah, definitely.Thanks for letting me be a part of this project. It's really cool what you do.Yeah, well, thank you very much. Of course. We'll be back next... Oh, sorry to interrupt.I was just going to say how much I really love your interviews with Spiral.And it's really cool how generous he's been with talking to you.And all the other guys too but I mean I love how accessible he is and it's so cool learning about that stuff so I'm looking forward to you know whatever new pavement stuff comes out ifyou know whatever news and projects you know I appreciate that you help bring this stuff to light I'll fly the flag forever man do it yeah well, great talking to you again Dan yep thanks alot wash your god damn Sam Hance.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

jD is talking to Pavement super-fan Pete from Malaga this week on the pod. You'll learn all about his Pavement origin story and hear their breakdown of song number 41 on the countdownTranscript:Track 1:[0:00] Previously on the pavement top 50.Track 2:[0:02] Okay track number 42 easily fooled comes from the rattled by da rush ep and um it's the third track on that ep and it later appeared on the sorted sentinel edition of wowie zowiereissue along with its ep bandmate false scorpion and it was track number 22 on that uh second disc of the sorted sentinels uh collection three issue so alan yeah what do you think ofeasily fooled love it love it love it love it it's on like i said to you off off air it's probably one of my favorite tracks alongside here yeah it just it's just such an amazing track Love themeandering nature of it.Just really acerbic lyrics.And yeah, it's an awesome, awesome track to jam along to.Track 3:[1:01] Hey, this is Westy from the rock and roll band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.Hey.Track 6:[1:09] It's JD here, back for another episode of our top 50 countdown for seminal indie rock band Pavement.Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own top 20 ballots.I tabulated the results using an advanced abacus and some spilled toothpicks on the floor.And all that's left for us to reveal is this week's track.How will your favorite song fare in the rating? You'll need to tune in or whatever the podcast equivalent of tuning in is every week to find out. So there's that.Track 5:[1:43] This week.Track 6:[1:44] We're joined by Pavement superfan, Pete. Pete how are you doing motherfucker getting over the fact that you said abacus and toothpicks you're like you're you're like you're like a Idon't know you're a cross between like an old Chinese medicine man and fucking rain man didn't he didn't he count toothpicks he did.[2:13] I'm good man i'm good i'm thanks for thanks for having me no it's my pleasure to have you on the show the legendary pete marchica of marchica easy easy easy so talk to me a littlebit about your pavement origin story pavement origin story um so i think it's fair it's it's it's important to point out that early on so I came to pavement right as they broke up like I was likediscovered this amazing band and the record that had just come out, was Steve Malcolm's self-titled debut and so this is the in after days and a A buddy of mine, Moe, who you know I'vespoke of a number of times, who incidentally knows Spiral well, he was burning discs like nobody's business.He was a master pirate and was burning a bunch of pavement stuff.Track 5:[3:22] I'm like.Track 6:[3:23] This band is fucking awesome. And I really couldn't at the time differentiate between the Malcolm of Souls stuff and pavement itself.And.Track 5:[3:34] I mean.Track 6:[3:35] I think probably the first Pavement song maybe I ever heard was...[3:41] Elevate me later or stereo one of those two both good songs to start with yeah and then got to the point to where i had a couple of these like compilation burns of napster tunes frompavement and uh and they just i just listened to the shit out of them i would sometimes i would leave them in my car and i noticed my mom started liking like pavement stuff because therewere like some PSO I sprinkled in there too oh yeah yeah yeah there was one song actually that was a spiral tune I want to say it was date with Ikea right and when you downloaded itfrom Napster there was a there was like a a opener tag like sometimes you get the file and the file would just be be whatever that person that was on the file sharing gave you andsometimes it wouldn't be the song but you know this happened to be the song but it would start with this really cool jingle, and this beautiful woman with a beautiful voice and she wouldjust say encoded by easy mp3.[4:55] It was uh i guess it was a mp3 encoding software that was early on and uh so i i never like i I think the first time I ever heard date with Ikea without encoded by MP easy MP3 in thebeginning was like.[5:13] I don't know when I bought my first payment record.Cause I, I ended up buying them all obviously in the years to come.And it was probably 2006, 2005.So I was listening to payment for like a good four to five years.Thinking that date with Ikea started with coded by easy.[5:38] Yeah it was like it was some random shit but oh the nowadays that brings me back man, It was a wild west, man. And you know what's crazy? And I may have told this on the...It's only relevant because of the town that I grew up in.I grew up in Downey and this high school I went to was a high school of James Hetfield from Metallica.And so they were, if you remember, at the forefront at the time of just being like, Like, fuck Napster, they're destroying the music industry, and Sal Park made the episode, this, that, andthe other.So I remember having, like, and my dad used to be a musician before he, like, quit playing music and started a trucking company, this and that.Track 5:[6:27] Dude.Track 6:[6:28] We used to have, like, discussions at the table, like, the dinner table.These would be, like, long, drawn-out discussions where I'd have to make my case as to why what I was doing was okay.Really? Yeah, my dad was just like, that is just sheer theft.You are stealing from people.And man, I mean, he wasn't wrong.Right. He wasn't fucking wrong. And I can't say that I really think that the way the landscape has changed for musicians making music nowadays via streaming platforms is better becauseit sucks.Just ask any musician. Hi. Yeah. Yeah. Pete Barchiga here.Um it fucking but yeah dude i remember that um and and pavement was probably.[7:20] Yeah they were probably the band that i had the first band that i had really discovered via like napster like i had heard the floyd i had heard guns and roses i had heard all the ledzeppelin shit on cd prior to that i had friends who had all those albums and i had a lot of those albums but like I didn't have any pavement I had no idea who they were you know so like I,I guess you could say that like, cause I mean, nowadays, I mean, I bought, I've bought all the records I've seen fucking pavement three or four times. I've seen Malcolm as countless times.Track 5:[8:00] Um.Track 6:[8:00] I've bought their records, bought their merch, paid for their concerts.Like, so there's sort of a case to be made that like Napster helped me fall in love with that band.Track 5:[8:11] You know.Track 6:[8:11] It just was a really slow burn.Track 5:[8:14] You know.Track 6:[8:15] For the band. It wasn't like, Hey, I bought your record.Or do you get this much money from it it's like hey i'm gonna fucking steal all your music and then 20 years later it'll that investment will you know appreciate if you will when you thinkabout how many different formats there have been for these for these properties right like that we you know that we that we bought different versions of them on cassette and then on cdand then back Back to LPs, in the middle, MP3s, you know, like.Track 5:[8:50] Yes.Track 6:[8:50] You could steal on Napster, but, you know, you could also buy on iTunes.And, like, my digital library is just a mess now, you know?It's just a mess of stuff that I've imported in, Apple Music, and then stuff that I've bought.And it's like, my play counts don't work correctly.And it's really, you know, just a mess.Yeah i remember back in the day before apple really got a hold on like you know encoding.[9:21] Having software that basically prevented pirating you know i would borrow friend cds and rip them to my hard drive put them on my ipod if i didn't have those cds and i waslistening to them that way um and then you know the iphone came out that sort of changed everything but it's interesting you say that about the different formats because i rememberbefore moving to europe the first time a friend of mine who is a huge apple guy like i think he's a former employee like you as well told me he said don't sell your media keep your mediado not wow like told me and i was like good out of here like yeah i didn't listen to him obviously no i didn't either and it's like god like i would have it all i would have all my cds still ihave some cds ironically most of my pavement stuff i never sold like that was the only real band and a few other gems but it's funny bring up the the different formats like vinyl cd tapeand then now what we're looking at is the fucking the reissues with the b-sides and the blah blah blahs and yes yeah and like.Track 1:[10:42] It's cool if you're like a Pokemon.Track 6:[10:48] Got to catch them all kind of guy. And I know, like, I guess what I'm trying to say is the right way because I don't want to sound like a prick.But I think I'm going to sound like a prick either way. So I'll just say it.Track 5:[11:04] Like.Track 6:[11:05] I was reading something about Taylor Swift recently, who's got more money than God.Track 1:[11:09] And you know she's coming out with like how they kind of like not scam their fans but like you know they'll come out with the same record but like the green edition and it's thisone's gold now get the gold one it's the same fucking record but this one's gold and it's like, and you know most of the Taylor Swift fans are you know, not I'm not knocking Taylor Swiftor her fans but I'm just saying like, if zepp if zeppelin came out with fucking you know houses of the holy and then and i got just a regular standard black vinyl and they came out with likea translucent one i tell robert plant to go fuck himself like you got my money already dude same fucking songs i don't need to fucking get a different edition but you know i guess it's coolif you if you if it's the only only one you have but when you're buying the same record over and over it's kind of like but then on the other hand when it comes to payment dude like dudevery few bands make money you don't really make money on vinyl even nowadays no matter how much you produce you know, they're making money on touring yeah.Track 6:[12:25] I mean, and you can see that, right? They're touring their faces off right now.Track 5:[12:29] You know?Track 6:[12:30] Yeah, I mean... They're putting in their time. Yeah, yeah.What's the... I don't know who it was. I think I've heard Spiral talk about it before.Track 5:[12:38] But vinyls.Track 6:[12:40] The point of vinyl records, and I said this too, are not to make money off of them.They're really an indicator of who's going to go to your shows, who's going to spend that $50 or $75 or whatever it is to go to your show.Because if somebody's committed to buy a vinyl of your band, chances are they love you enough to go plunk down $50 for a ticket. Yeah, that makes sense.[13:09] $50 for beers. and that's money that that goes more directly in the band's pocket than you know vinyl record but what do i know i'm i'm you know even though that's true i'm stillwaiting like to build my pavement vinyl collection because i'm hopeful that they'll release like the sordid sentinels edition the elli's desert origin edition like the big boxes for vinyl like i'mreally hopeful because right now i've got them on cd and the book you know the booklet that it comes with is fine but when you see the terror twilight booklet the farewell horizontalbooklet it's like it's big and it's you know it's juicy i don't know it's really the design work that goes into it really stands out so much more and uh i'm so hopeful they do that but what itmeans is i don't have a tremendous amount of pavement on vinyl i've got uh i've got watery domestic and i've got the major leagues ep and i've got terror twilight.[14:18] Farewell horizons and i've got uh a funny version of slanted the the version of slanted that is just like red and black.Don't you have the, don't you have like demolition plot or something or no?Yeah, I have, I have those. I have them hanging on my wall in like a display. Okay.Those are nothing, man. Yeah. It's pretty cool. People don't have those.Those are worth some money. Yeah.Well, the one I paid quite a bit for.It's weird that it's on my wall now. Now that I have a turntable.I didn't have a turntable before.Track 5:[14:59] You know.Track 6:[15:00] Like, dude, if I'm going to listen to pavement shit on vinyl, because I have a fair amount of other stuff on vinyl, i'll do it where i'll listen to them sequentially with like a friend orlike just be like i'm gonna put on some pavement today it's very rare that i will like be like i'm gonna put on fucking, slanted on vinyl right you know i have a shitty copy of slanted i thinki bought it online through like fucking urban outfitters or some shit when when they thought that you know when when pavement was the cool thing again, once again in like the, youknow, cause I never had that record, but.Track 1:[15:44] But yeah.Track 6:[15:45] I, I don't know. I mean, cause I got all the shit. If I ever want to listen to it, you can listen to it on, on, you know, Spotify or Apple or whatever.Yeah. And now they're lossless, right? Like, so, you know, they sound much better and I don't know.What do you think? It's an interesting conversation. Yeah, definitely.Track 1:[16:07] What do you think we head over to the other side.Track 6:[16:10] Though?Track 2:[16:10] We'll listen to track 41, and then we'll come back and talk about it.Track 6:[16:14] Let's do it. Let's do it. All right, let's do it. We'll be right back after this.Track 5:[16:19] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening.And now on with a countdown.Track 2:[16:27] 41.So there it is. Major Leagues is number 41 on the countdown.It is the fifth track on Terror Twilight, and it's the eighth track if you're using the Goderich sequencing.It's on the second side of the Terror Twilight reissue, third track. So it's the eighth song.Track 6:[20:15] This is the second song from Terror Twilight on the countdown.You Are a Light was number 45.Track 2:[20:21] And here we are at number 41. with major leagues pete what do you think so i love this song um i was talking earlier about you know the the early days of me discoveringpavement and those burned mp3 cds and i always loved this song um i mean this song was the soundtrack to breakups and and heartaches and and Lonely Times.Track 6:[20:50] Getting out of shitty dive bars with my buddy Mo.And, you know, this song, because I think I said too earlier, I alluded to the fact that there were, that I didn't know, I couldn't differentiate yet, which was Pavement and which was, youknow, Malcolm is the Solo stuff.Stuff this this has some very much some early malcolmus and the jicks vibes totally i call this the beta test yeah it's very church i get some church on white vibes yeah it's good yeah thebeta test that's well done well said yeah it's it sounds very similar to that quality but one thing i i noticed listening to it um i don't know recently was like.[21:41] Um the the harmonies the in the back towards the end of the song are just like i i don't know that i ever noticed that i don't kind of i didn't notice it either until today let's sit on thebig cans and there's also this weird weird sound occasionally in the song like uh some sort of electronic static that comes up like two or three times in in the song very subtle very weird i Ihave written down that this is like one of the most dense pavement songs I can think of.Like there's very little space. And I don't mean that as a critique, just an observation, but songs by pavement are typically very sparse.And this is, you know, there's obviously Godrich is, you know, building this sort of soundscape and then SM with the, with the lovely vocal tone, like just really lovely.Track 5:[22:39] You know.Track 6:[22:40] Know this would be a song i would grab for anybody that says sm can't sing you know i'd be like you're crazy first of all but here listen to this and tell me this man can't sing well imean i still get that people will say that because those are the people who are just like you know they just don't really get music i think they think everything should sound like a perfectpop song and that's just not music but right um yeah i i i heard the i haven't heard the hiss but this song is chock full it's it's weighty it's got some fucking meat to it and yeah i don't knowif he's doing a you know a phil specter wall of sound sort of shit trying to have no empty space or, or what but i think it may have something to do with that is it like a little drum track orsomething at the very end that kind of trails off the song it sounds like a repeating drum right.[23:40] Yeah um or some sort of like some sort of sequencer but um yeah i was gonna mention one other thing about when you're talking about the weight of the song but yeah i mean it'sit's It's, oh, the first line, lip balm on watery clay is just, I mean, dude, it's, if you could have just said that and then just, the song was an instrumental called Lip Balm on Watery Clay, Iwould have been like, fuck, dude.I mean it's relationships hey hey hey fuck dude like just it smacks of just, 90s breakup fucking early 2000s just oh god i this is one of the very few songs that when i hear it i immediatelyget transported like back to.Track 1:[24:38] Images and situations and smells and states of being yeah wow this is a big one for you oh i and a lot of people like say that like oh it's it's not one it's not one of my favorites like ican't say that shit and i i applaud you for doing the doing the countdown in my eyes is it's always different you know yeah yeah yeah this is you know yeah it's fun i got it cool yeah this iswater cooler talk right exactly and it's great to to get together and, to chat i just i i find it funny the people that want to go to the mat, over shit you know well that leads to my next questionthen one of the questions i've been asking every episode is do you think this song is fairly rated at 42 should it be higher should it be lower is it just right like for you i would say it's a littlehigh up i would say it should be a little it should be a little closer to closer it's a top 40 song is what you're saying yeah Yeah.Track 6:[25:51] Yeah. I mean, it is really... I think over the last four years, five years since the whole...[26:03] Uh pavement mania yeah landed in america once again you know um with the primavera 2019 announcement all that your podcast i think people are more um heady so you'regonna get people that like fucking the the deep cuts the the half of canyons the fucking best friends armed you know the the shit like that that are really good songs if you're a hardcorepayment fan but like top 50 songs with their massive catalog my mom wants to know about pavement i'm not gonna put on fucking you know uh flux rat or fucking uh i'm just thinking ofshit off like wowie zowie right now right right you know it's no i'll put on major leagues is gonna be one of the first like and equally i was burning a lot of fucking albums back in the dayyou know that's what you did when you when you liked a girl made a record absolutely burned her cd and this song absolutely made it i mean this is major leagues this is i remember thebartender at my at my local local marla i was so in love with her and uh i i burned a copy of sm's solo record for her.[27:33] And you know slipped it to her one night at the bar it's like you just have to listen to this i'm not going to tell you anything else you just have to listen to this you know i wanted herto hear church on white so bad but i didn't want to tell her play church on white you know yeah i just I just wanted it to happen organically if I could. But.Track 5:[27:52] You know.Track 6:[27:52] Yeah. Those were the days, man.I mean, I think nowadays, too, with so much music at your fingertips, it's really hard to get into a record.Because even when you get into a record, it's like you get into it and you let it go and there's something new.Track 1:[28:16] Knew you don't have to work for it anymore man right even even those even those early, napster days man you know you didn't i was on a 56k for a long time man i have nofucking t1, i knew people that had a t1 and i was like if i got a fucking pave song uh that i was downloading or some pavement tunes i mean i had to wait for those months and i had to sitand say and a lot A lot of times.Track 6:[28:45] Sometimes you get close to a download, it's going for like 30 minutes, and then right at the end, the fucking user drops off or, you know, it was horrible.It's horrible. Yeah, torrents change the game. Yeah, yeah.But nowadays you just, you don't, you don't have to work for anything.It's just, you have the world. It's kind of, I don't know.I tell that to my kids all the time. I tell that to my kids all the time.And that's why, one of the reasons I started collecting vinyl now and got a good turntable is because.Track 5:[29:21] Like.Track 6:[29:22] I want them to see that it's, like, something that is tangible.Like, somebody created this. Somebody made this. and it's not just this thing that lives in your phone and you know i think that's important for them you know no that's that's a really fairpoint and i i get that too and i dig it and i want to build up my media in that respects because and i think we you and i have either had this conversation privately or we've mentioned it onother platforms but there's this really really famous interview that was done in.Track 5:[29:57] Man.Track 6:[29:58] I want to say 2010. I don't remember when it was, but it was David Bowie.And it was before he died in 2016 or whatever it was.And he said, in the future, everything will be subscription-based.And this was before... I think the only streaming service, Apple wasn't out yet, Spotify wasn't out yet.The only streaming service was Pandora.Right. I remember Pandora. And it was like, I think they had just maybe launched a premium, like, if you wanted it without commercials.Track 5:[30:35] You know.Track 6:[30:36] None of this unlimited, and you still couldn't, at the time, listen to anything you wanted on Pandora. You couldn't just call up a song.It was like you could go to radio stations and, you know, this and that.But nowadays, everything's a fucking subscription.You want, oh, you want fresh food delivered to your house and pre-done meals for five days a week?Subscription. Do you want...Fucking, you name it, man. I mean, I think Uber Eats and shit like that has subscriptions. They do. People.Track 5:[31:06] Everything.Track 6:[31:08] Well, I don't know if you had a chance. Did you have a chance to listen to the Spiral interview? The latest one?Track 5:[31:13] I did.Track 6:[31:14] And ask me why. And he talks about Pavement potentially doing a subscription-based live record sort of thing.Right. Yes, I do remember him mentioning that. Because they've got a whole bunch of live...Live uh dats that they got access to and then they've been taping a bunch of the more recent shows so they might release live records on the like there might be a pavement sub somehowyeah i don't know well i'll tell you what i think they're they're in a they're they're getting under the wire enough to where they can fucking um you know i i i want the best for the boys manAnd they deserve all that's coming to them.And if they decide to do a subscription model and whatever fucking more power to them, I will say that not now, but I think probably in another five to six years.Track 5:[32:12] I think...It's it's gonna we're we're gonna reach critical mass it's gonna change because i think uh just streaming everything not just music but movies and netflix and all like you know what irealized i watched we canceled this is a more personal shit but we canceled like our netflix disney plus fucking hbo we had all those fucking streaming platforms now we have of amazonand i think that's it because you know we have like an amazon prime account and i watched probably just as much fucking streaming as i did before i'm just not pissing away fucking, youknow 80 extra bucks a month it's fun that's a good way to do it just stick with one, and then suck it dry and then you know but it's not that's the other thing too it never goes dry becauseevery like 30 days they put new fucking shit on there and it's like true good point you can get away unless you're like you're obsessed with the marvel universe or you've got to watchwhatever i mean i know there are some staples on like things like you know people go to netflix for stranger things some people go to spotify for joe rogan shit like that i get that those areyou know flagship products of those companies but i think for the most part like Like.Track 1:[33:37] Am I going to have a HelloFresh subscription so I can get fresh potatoes and fuck out of here with that shit?Track 6:[33:46] No offense if they're coming on as a sponsor soon. Take it back. Edit this out.Anything else about Major Leagues?Anything else you want to say about it?Track 1:[34:01] I think it's a really dynamic song.Track 6:[34:03] I think it's a song that is just... It's so unique, man.And the piano that is playing, I'm stupid when it comes to instruments, but it's some sort of effect.It sounds like a really unique old piano. Yeah, it really does.It's very bassy. It's very, you know.Track 5:[34:27] Well.Track 6:[34:28] It's got some cool chorus reverb to it.It's really cool. And I love it.Track 1:[34:38] Yeah I don't know what you want no that's fine yeah it's a soundtrack if I want to put a cap on it it is a soundtrack to a window, into a certain time in my life that I just the songtransports me there immediately it's amazing what a trick the band are magicians in that respect, they know the tricks what's that?Track 6:[35:02] They're ex-magicians but they still know the tricks ex-magicians Does that go over my head? Trigger cut, on that note pete uh do you have anything you want to plug any anywherethat anybody can go and find your work uh yeah yeah if they i mean we're we're marchica on apple spotify we have new record coming out um in april or may of this year it's taken longenough it's coming coming out on my label records it's spelled like um not and not it's not the same meaning but it's m-a-i-l-e-i-b-e-l oh my label records so it's coming out in um yeahmay april may cool so we'll look for that yeah awesome well it's been great having you on of course uh great talking to you about a myriad of things.We'll do this again soon.Track 3:[36:08] Thanks.Track 6:[36:08] Man. Good to see you. That's all I got for you this week. So stay cool and wash your goddamn hands.Track 3:[36:15] Thanks for listening to Meeting Malcolmus, a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you.If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email.JD at meetingmalcolmus.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

jD is joined by Matt F Basler to discuss his experience with Pavement and to analyze song number 45 on the countdown.Transcript:Track 1:[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.Track 2:[0:02] So there you go. At number 46, it's the third Wowie Zowie song to chart behind Best Friend's Arm at number 49.And Motion suggests itself at 48. Here we are at 46 with We Dance, the first track of the 2005 masterpiece Wowie Zowie. Maui.Keith, what do you think about We Dance?So, yeah, I think it's a great song.I love how it leads off the album. It's got like, I feel like it has this ethereal quality to it.Like that kind of just, I don't know, it seems just kind of dreamy sort of for me.I don't know if that's how it comes off to anyone else at the beginning of the song.Track 3:[0:59] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band, Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.Hey, it's JD here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for the Seminole Indie Rock Band.Track 6:[1:12] Pavement. Week over week, we're going to count down the 50 essential Pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads.I then tabulated the results using an advanced abacus and, well, frankly, a calculator.And all that's left for us to reveal is this week's track.How will your favorite song fare in the rating? Well, you'll need to tune in or whatever the podcast equivalent of tuning in is, I suppose, downloading to find out.Track 3:[1:38] This week.Track 6:[1:39] We're joined by a Pavement superfan, Matt F. Bosler. So there's that.How are you doing, Matt? I'm wonderful. This is good to hear.Yeah, no, I think so. Yeah, man.Uh it's a snowy blustery day where i am very cold what's it like where you're at uh same so i'm in i'm in uh st louis missouri it's it's a frozen hellscape currently, so i'm in a robe right nowi'm in our our place is cold we can't keep it warm ceilings are too tall oh my god that's terrible that's a but in the summer i bet you it's awesome it's hot then, there's no good time there's nogood period oh man well maybe when the cardinals play i don't know are you a cardinals guy i'm not a sports guy not a sports guy at all i i'll fake it sometimes right get by you know right,I've learned how to say how about them cards, that's great you got it nailed you got this whole thing figured out.Track 3:[2:59] Well.Track 6:[2:59] Motherfucker, we're here to talk about your pavement experience.And I've been calling it your pavement origin story. So why don't you share with us what that looks like?Well, I see a post. I see a post out there on the internet.It says like, oh, we're talking about the top 50 pavement songs.Would any of you like to talk about it? Maybe discuss your origin stories?Reason i say i say to myself i say matt uh perhaps you would be a unique perspective on something like this as i am what i think especially in the world of pavement fans i'm a fairly newuh of pavement fan i'm a newcomer uh to to the band now i'm a i'm a coming of age in the the 90s.Track 3:[3:53] You know?Track 6:[3:54] I'm listening to Nirvana, Pixies, Replacements.I'm a cool guy. We were from a small town in Missouri, though, so it was difficult to figure out what was cool and what wasn't cool.Coolest things we were reading were like Guitar Player Magazine, and then you'd find out about a band from someone else.You'd bump into a cool person, and they'd go like, Like, I've never heard of, I don't know, some band, you know?Ever heard of the Stooges? And you'd go, no.Well, somehow, I had gotten it in my brain that I'm sure you're aware of Nu Metal and, Saliva, perhaps, or Korn, certainly.Track 3:[4:46] Sure.Track 6:[4:46] Backwards K, yeah. Yeah. Somehow in my brain, I thought Pavement was a new metal band. Get out.Now, I don't know how this happened.Maybe the name, maybe the way the name was written at some point, the logo.Sure. And so I totally wrote them off, you know? Now, of course, getting into music is not a linear thing.So I would hear Pavement songs.I was familiar with some, you know, Cut Your Hair.When I dove in, I was like, oh, I have heard this. But I never connected.Dear friend Ryan tried to get me into Pavement.Showed me, I think, maybe one of their late night.But I don't know. It never came together. always thought oh pavement their new metal and a lot of my friends listen to pavement, but I think what's the band white pony is that the albumno no.[5:57] Oh, shoot. What are they called? Drawing a blank. Deftones.Oh, Deftones. Okay. Yeah. Deftones somehow, whatever.I'm not saying you're a dunce if you like the Deftones, but the Deftones were kind of new metal, but slipped into the indie rock. People liked them as well.So it wasn't insane that somebody would maybe have a new metal band on their their list of bands they liked if they listened to things that i liked right so years go by i just don't get into ityou know and and uh i should have i should and i'm a bad music listener too takes me a long time i gotta listen to things over and over again to like uh get into it um, so it's it's i i try reallyhard i try to be listening to new stuff all the time but it It feels like an undertaking for me to do that, so I don't do it as much as I should.Anyway, driving in the car maybe five years ago, six years ago, with my beautiful lover, Courtney, she puts on a song, Range Life.Track 3:[7:03] Oh.Track 6:[7:04] Boy. And this is rare that this happens to me.Like I said, you usually got to hear something over and over.Range Life, we're maybe halfway through, and I go, now see this. Now this is good. Now.Track 3:[7:16] This is what music should be.Track 6:[7:18] Who's this? She goes, this is Pavement. I say, no, no, no.No, I know Pavement. This isn't Pavement.Pavement would be doing like the thing that old Jonathan Davis does at the end of that.He'd be scatting or something.She shows me the phone.I'm swerving all over as I just stare at this phone scrolling, going, wait, this can't be right.Track 3:[7:46] Well, it was.Track 6:[7:47] It was right.Track 1:[7:50] And man.Track 6:[7:51] Yeah, then I started. So even still, though, it's like I said, a bad music listener.And now I'm coming into Pavement with a billion albums.And they're a weird band, right? So I started listening to the top on Spotify.So you've got like Harness Your Hope. Good place to start.Track 3:[8:11] Yeah.Track 6:[8:11] Start there. I'm like, oh, this is great. I love all of these.And you know those are probably the most like easily accessible um pavement songs which it was fun to find out they have a lot of songs that are uh maybe not so easily accessible, then ii go well i gotta dive into an album i choose at random sort of uh wowie zowie jesus christ which is now now that's kind of my my favorite one which i guess that's kind of you you know,your first one, but because I'm like, Oh, these guys are, are weirdos too. So, And even, you know, I think they're an interesting band to get into late.[8:58] Because by the time I went, well, I'll get into the subreddits. I'll really dive in.People are talking about EPs so much.But, you know, I'm coming more from a world where EPs don't come into the conversation as much.Like with pavement those seem like very main albums uh but i can't really think of another band where eps would be discussed on such a same level as as the full albums um and yeah iwould i mean there's i'm still at a point where like i can't name there's songs on each album that if you named them i wouldn't know them offhand you know like gotcha you'd know themto hear them but but not retrieve the song by name.Which is great. I mean, yeah, and I'm still, you know, like I said, it does take me a long time to get into stuff.And like I was saying, I think even especially kind of the back ends of Pavement albums get pretty wild.So yeah, I mean, I'm still kind of digging through and figuring it all out.Oh, that's really cool. Cool. First of all, you're a great storyteller.So thank you for that. That was a good story.Is it fair to say then you've never seen them live? We did go see them in Kansas City.Track 3:[10:25] Oh.Track 6:[10:26] I mean, one of the terrible things to me is like, listening to them now, they would have been, because I probably would have been getting in.Track 3:[10:34] Like.Track 6:[10:35] You know, with Crooked Rain probably would would have been the first one i would have bought if i if i did it at the right time right and i would have absolutely i mean this wouldhave been my favorite band and then i mean they are now i i, consider them in the they so it's pre-pandemic they were going to play a show in barcelona, right and we i mean we weretalking about it um because it just felt like i i felt like i missed out.This is a band I could have seen several times.And you're going like, well, they've already done a reunion tour.There's a good chance we'll never get to do this. So maybe we go. Maybe we check it out.Track 3:[11:21] And then.Track 6:[11:22] Of course, that all went away. And then we went and saw them in Kansas City a couple of years ago, I think, a year ago, two years ago. And it was wonderful.Track 3:[11:33] It was great.Track 1:[11:34] Yeah.Track 6:[11:35] You lucked out because that 2010 Renewed Tour, although it was very special to me, I saw them in Central Park in New York City and that was really special.They didn't look like they were having the best time. That's what I understand.But this tour, they seemed like, like SM in particular, just seemed like he was having fun.Right. And yeah, that's interesting too, because yeah, now my perception of them is like, wow, what a great live band.Yeah. But even in their heyday is the wrong term, but I guess pre-Breakup, right?Sure. Even then, people were kind of like, oh, they're sloppy.That's like their whole thing.Yeah and i you know that's not something i ever experienced yeah the kansas city show was just a great band oh yeah so much fun so do you have any um any favorite tracks or a favoritefavorite record at this point is it still wowie zowie yeah i think so um.[12:38] It was interesting well so that was you know i i probably listened to that for a year or two before i started going like okay i'm a i'm a join the subreddit guy and uh it was reallyinteresting for me to learn that that was like uh not well received initially um and even the later stuff too i i i think twilight is great i think bright in the corners is great and you know Imean, I know that I'm getting all this stuff at once.There's no like, oh, I love Payment. I love the sound of Slanted and Enchanted.Can't wait to see what's next. And then you get this kind of polished record, and maybe that would be a disappointment.But to me, it's all at once. So I don't know.I really love it all. It would be really hard for me to rank.Track 1:[13:34] Like.Track 6:[13:35] Well, and also, I mean, I did listen to, like, started listening to the top Spotify plays, and then I would listen to some, like, other people's like my favorite tracks or whatever deepercuts or whatever and right and so like part i don't necessarily even know like what's from terror twilight bright in the corners without like thinking about it um so for effort and you knowslanted change is a little easier to just discern that sound from the later stuff but even Even Crooked Rain is a fairly slick record.So yeah, a lot of those tracks, I don't really... Like I said, unless I go, oh, what is that on?It's all just like pavement songs. Wowie Zowie, I know the best.That I could do. But yeah, they're all just kind of like...It's just a bunch of good songs. I agree. I so agree with you.And I discovered them in a similar way. I discovered them late.I discovered them after Terror Twilight.So I got the same gift that you got, which is like five records at once.Yeah. And to hear people say like Carrot Rope, I've seen people say like.Track 3:[14:55] Oh.Track 6:[14:56] But that one, that one's a toss off. That one's a joke, stupid song.And I'm just like, I don't... Sure.Track 3:[15:02] I guess.Track 6:[15:03] But I like it. And I think, yeah, fun songs like that, there's room room for that again if you were so stoked for the next 10 pavement songs and one of them you felt, was a silly gooftrack maybe i could see being a little more disappointed but i don't know i think it sounds like uh sounds like animal crossing music um which was another big part of the pandemic for usyeah and i enjoyed it tied it all in a bow you just tied it all in a bow you You are a master storyteller.Track 1:[15:36] Well.Track 6:[15:36] What do you say we go to the track that we're going to talk about this week, and we can do that right after this little break. What do you think? Can't wait. But I will.I'll wait, because you just said there's going to be a break. So I can wait.Track 1:[15:52] And I'm excited to do it.Track 6:[15:54] Excellent.Track 3:[15:55] Well.Track 5:[15:55] We'll talk to you right after this. Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement.Thanks for listening. Now on with the countdown. 45.Track 3:[19:55] So this is song number 45 on the countdown and it is our first track from terror twilight on the the list so far it is you are a light what do you think of this track matt personally andhey you know not trying to be controversial i like it i think it's great oh that's not controversial i guess you're right i guess everybody wrote in i didn't like i saw you talking about peoplewrite in for your top 50 and i went i'm not qualified i'm i shouldn't oh i should let the the real guys do this um so far i i agree i've i've been i've been keeping up with the pod and i'm i'mthere there's not which there's only been a couple but there's not yet been a track that I've gone.Track 6:[20:52] You people are insane. And you are a light. I'm right there with them.Sure, this could be a top 50 for me.Yeah, I think it's a lovely song. I think his vocal tone is maybe one of the best that we've heard of performances delivered vocally.It's so clean and so smooth um i love all the atmospherics in this song nigel has.[21:19] Created like a soundscape you know for the rather sparse band arrangement which we're used to with this band you know sort of uh filling in the gaps really nicely i love how thesong opens with that almost it almost sounds like you're turning something on yeah like a flick of a switch or something doesn't it oh yeah yeah yeah uh for sure old electronics remindsme of or something yeah in a in a movie i don't know if old electronics really make that sound but i feel like they do yeah yeah yeah.[21:57] Um yeah i think i think you know that's a a thing about um like his vocals like sometimes, uh i'll listen to vocal takes of the pavement you know and be like i wish i was boldenough, to be okay with that uh and this isn't one of those right like this he sings very like like, on key and everything, which is cool, too, to have those differences.And then to, like, know that, like, on other songs, and of course I'm not thinking of any right now, but he does it a lot, right, where it's not necessarily on the correct pitch or with greattone.Track 2:[22:44] And so songs like this.Track 6:[22:45] Right, are just kind of like, well, yeah, he could have done it perfect, but it feels better, more fun to...To do it um more fun i guess or uh whatever and um and right here randy jackson being like you're a little pitchy dog yeah right and that's it that you know i mean like i said like if i'mever recording a song like there's no way i i would i would i'm very self-conscious about things like that and uh it's it's nice to have someone to look at and go it's so it's okay you You canhave fun with it, or you can do it more like you're a light and nail it and make a very pretty song.But then I do like how this song is almost cut in half, right?There's the first chunk, and then there's the second part, half.[23:40] Dynamically, there's tons of shifts. And that's another songwriting thing that I appreciate in this song. They don't go back to the first part.And I think in songwriting, I don't know.I feel like that's a tough thing to do, to go like, nope, it's just this and then this and then we're done.We don't need to overdo it.There's no reason to come back to even like a chorus, which I don't know.I mean, the song would be difficult to kind of say what is a chorus.Yeah. Yeah. yeah i suppose you are the you know like you are the light the the calm in the day you're the light the calm in the day um like i suppose that scores but you're right there's no,There's no pavement blueprint. We've heard six songs so far on the countdown, and they're all remarkably different.Track 4:[24:35] They're all remarkably different from a structure standpoint as well as just like a finished product.Track 6:[24:42] I love that too. I'm glad you pointed that out because it's like verse, chorus, verse, chorus, and then weirdness, and then sort of a bridge, and then sort of out. But none of it is...Songwriting 101 no and right like it is interesting i think because you could take a lot of these songs in this this top 50 and pretend well what if there was a band that was this like this wastheir entire thing uh and you know you'd be like oh that's they're cool uh, But right, pavement does do a lot of different things.And to me, that's more interesting. I think I get the impression from some of the diehards, which again, I'm not saying anyone's doing it wrong or anything, but I think sometimes peoplewill get sort of stuck on their idea of pavement, or maybe the version of pavement they like.And it can be annoying to them when they diverge from that too far in their minds.But I think I look at it like.[25:58] Well, I only have to listen to one band. I don't have to get into five or six other bands.It's making it easy for me. That's great.[26:12] What do you think this song is about?Do you think it's about anything, or is it just word salad, or what's the deal? Man, I'm not a lyric guy.No, okay. I guess I'm more of a connotative lyric person, right? Okay, expand on that.These words feel a certain way together.It's not like a story. It's not like a linear tale, right?Track 4:[26:42] Right.Track 6:[26:43] And I'll do that even with songs that maybe are... like someone will go oh that song that's about him riding on a train and i'll be i'll almost be disappointed when someone tells methat right i'm like oh i guess it is yeah okay i see um i i like lyrics that just to me my interpretation was like well that makes me feel this way and And all of these words kind of like cometogether to elicit an emotion.And that's sort of the vibe I get from pavement lyrics.I think you're right. I think you're bang on. People talk about it like.Track 4:[27:26] Oh.Track 6:[27:26] It's just nonsense.And I think maybe in like a, oh, it's about this. It's this.I'm talking about these things.Maybe that's true, but I do think that they always seem to me to be pretty carefully selected things.[27:46] Elicit uh an emotion a specific like vibe and feeling and uh yeah i mean i i did i so like i said i'm not really lyric i don't really like pour over lyrics um and i did for this because ithought that would be a good thing to do and then that's when i learned well i am bad at it i have no idea what this is about i but i like them all i do like cool i like cool words and these arelike I read these and I go, well, this is cool.I like how this makes me feel.And they all are neat words together.Yeah, and some of them connect. I think You Are a Light, The Calm and The Day, I think that fits together. That may be about somebody, but maybe not.I love, lyrically, it almost reminds me of David Berman.[28:37] I Drive a Stick, Gotta Love It, Automatic. like that's the the vocal delivery of that is really cool so i think you're right there's there's almost as much like a michael stipe sort of yeahthing going on where it's like this word sounds good with the melody i'm going to use that in lieu of uh writing something heartfelt and uh, linear or or something along those lines i don'twant to say this song isn't heartfelt or other pavements no but you know what i mean i know you mean and i think sometimes when you write a song, you might you know you say wellyes this song is about the way I felt when this thing happened.[29:21] But I'm not it's not about that thing you know what I mean it's more about the emotion and, like I said I don't really enjoy story songs that much or I feel like you're sort of likestripping away a layer for people to enjoy it.Because, you know, you're going like, well, I don't have a red truck, so I can't...You're making me do more work, right? Because now I have to go, okay, that's the way you felt about your red truck.What could I feel that way about instead of just talking about the emotion and then, you know, whatever.I'm getting above my pay grade on talking.But yeah, I'm sure like maybe old mouth missed, could say, oh, yeah, this is about, like, Lethalizer Slingshots is about the time that we did this and this and this, but I don't know what thatmeans. Yeah. Yeah.Track 4:[30:31] Swallow propane.Track 6:[30:32] I just know, hey, as much of a fan as I am, not going to do that, Steve. Not going to do that.Track 3:[30:40] No.Track 6:[30:40] I don't think I will. I don't think I will. Where do you think this fits?Do you think it's a good spot at 45, five or do you think it should be uh like is it properly rated do you think or would you have it would you have it higher up or would you put it lowerdown for for yeah i mean i think for me i i think i'm gonna have more issues myself with the with the top because i think sure with people who are perhaps better fans than i know it there'sno such like it would be hard for me to not say a.Track 4:[31:16] Oh.Track 6:[31:17] Cut Your Hair should be top five. That's a, what a great song.And I think, I feel like it's going to get deeper cut, less pop song toward the top.And this, I don't know, this kind of.Track 3:[31:33] To me.Track 6:[31:33] This would probably maybe go higher for me, but I think...Man, they got a lot of songs. They got a lot of good songs. You have a lot of songs. 120 were selected for this process. 120 songs.I guess really, right? This is sort of a fool's errand from the start.It's just kind of a fun way to talk about a bunch of songs. I think you've mentioned...Track 3:[31:57] You got me.Track 6:[31:57] You got me. Yeah, I think you've talked about it.It's like, well, yeah, this is 45 today, but next week.Track 1:[32:07] It wouldn't make my top 100 or something you know that's um that's pavement fans are a little fickle yeah but but if if this was like the guitar player magazine i'll talk shit on themagain uh top 100 guitar players you know this wouldn't be the one that gets me in the comment section going you're out of your mind what that's no way gotcha so i would read it and i'dgo go yeah did you see the guy did the top 500 guided by voices songs holy shit no i did uh it might have been uh what a challenge some publication some some music magazine and umwe'll have to check that out i consider myself a a fan of a pretty fair weather fan of guided by voices but i do like them now that was a band i tried to get into late and i went i can't there'sno way i can't do it it's too much work and i'm reading this top 500 and like it was crazy to me that his like top 30 i maybe knew two or three songs out of it um wow i have to check this iat least have to check the top 50 out see how many get you in those comments going you're out that's crazy well i'm i'm probably like you in that you know i've got b1000 and i've got umgosh i can't even even think of the other records that i have but uh.Track 6:[33:35] I don't know that I could name. I'm a bad fan here because I don't know if I could name 50.I don't know if I could name 50. They have tricky names to recall at times as well. Yeah.Yeah. So this, right, I think this is certainly an easier undertaking.Makes more sense to me to do the top 50 pavement than top 500.I mean, at least here you can go like, the difference between, you know, 30 and 25 makes sense on a top 500.What is 450 to 442?Like, what is that? That's right. How do you even quantify?Track 3:[34:22] But again...Track 6:[34:23] Well, most people had difficulty doing 20. Most people had difficulty doing 20 ranked, which is what I asked for.I asked for 20 rank songs and then i would get emails from people i'd be like dude just do your do your top five and then add another 15 songs you know like because like you said it'stough once you get to a certain point you know like what is 17 you know what i mean out of 20 and i think this is a band where you go like if i'm in a bummer mood they've got themthey've got songs for that and if i'm if i'm wanting to have a have a good fun party time that's a different different set of of songs um major leagues was my that was my most played onspotify last year oh cool all right because you get that uh report at the end of the year right so yeah we'll see, hopefully that that makes it somewhere i guess i guess uh that would havemade it easier for me because yeah how would i pick a number one i guess if i listen to that the most i that would be your number one for 2023 i guess so i guess yeah well matt f basler uhit's been great talking to you about pavement and i really i really appreciate your time this this podcast season two here of meeting malchus is is entirely uh shouldered by the guests so uhyou did a you did a formidable job, and I appreciate that a lot.[35:51] Is there anywhere that people can find you that you want to be found, or is there anything project-wise that you're working on that you want to talk about.Track 4:[36:01] Or anything like that?Track 6:[36:03] Yeah! Matt F. Bosler everywhere. We're a band, I suppose.Track 4:[36:08] Matt F.Track 6:[36:08] Bosler is a band and a me, and we're doing songs and, I think I could see, I'm not going to say if you like Pavement, you'll like my stuff, but I think if someone was listing bandsthey liked, it would sound crazy if someone said, I like Pavement, Matt F. Bosler.It wouldn't be whiplash for someone to mention those two things sonically together.We just did, a couple years ago, though, we did a synth album of covers of modern country songs about beating people up.So that's maybe a little bit out there. Can you find it on Bandcamp?Track 4:[37:01] Yeah.Track 6:[37:02] Yeah, yeah. It's everywhere. Spotify, Apple Music, all that.That and then as an apology to country music for making a mockery we did then we made a an album of country originals whoa so we're doing a lot of stuff we're doing some some crazystuff out there that's cool i hope i hear you on the pod list this year do you know what the pod list is, no so every year i do something called a pod list for my birthday and i solicit tracksfrom, talented pavement uh fans and they do covers and then i put all the covers together in a podcast playlist or a pod list and uh i get it sequenced by somebody who who uh i get itsequenced by somebody who knows sequencing and uh it's usually pretty fucking fun that's wonderful wonderful i have a podcast i guess that'll be july podcast i'm not good at namingthings so yeah it is just matt f bosler's podcast or you're really good at naming things well sandy and kevin are okay they named me so mom and dad yeah yeah all right brother well it'sgreat talking to you like i said uh that's what i've got for you this this week.Track 3:[38:27] So stay cool and wash your goddamn hands.Thanks for listening to meeting Malcolm is a pavement podcast, where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you.If you've got questions or concerns, please shoot me an email JD at meeting Malcolm is.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Cafes are important glue in Australian society, offering community, connection and fuel. Kieran Spiteri is part of Yolk Group, which owns four cafes in Melbourne's north and west: Convoy, Terror Twilight, Tinker and Hi Fi. We talk about the advantages and challenges of being part of a group, the tricky balance of menu staples and specials, mentoring and motivating staff, and why his business partners wouldn't be surprised if he walked into a meeting with a horse. https://www.instagram.com/yolk.group/?hl=en Follow Dirty Linen on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dirtylinenpodcast Follow Dani Valent https://www.instagram.com/danivalent Follow Rob Locke (Executive Producer) https://www.instagram.com/foodwinedine/ Follow Huck (Executive Producer) https://www.instagram.com/huckstergram/ LISTEN TO OUR OTHER FOOD PODCASTS https://linktr.ee/DeepintheWeedsNetwork Dirty Linen is a food podcast hosted by Australian journalist Dani Valent. A respected restaurant critic and food industry reporter in her home town of Melbourne, Dani is a keen, compassionate observer of restaurants and the people who bring them into being. Whether it's owners, waiters, dishwashers, chefs or members of ancillary trades from tech to pottery, Dani interviews with compassion, humour and courage. Dirty Linen goes deep, both in conversations with individuals and in investigating pressing issues.  Dirty Linen is an Australian food podcast produced by the Deep in the Weeds Podcast Network.

Dale Kemp began his cooking career back home in Aotearoa, New Zealand. Although he had always been aware of and interested in the fact his grandmother was a great cook - she had a huge garden and grew fruit and vegetables throughout the year – he didn't think about becoming a chef until he got an after-school job at 16 as a dishwasher at the Boat Shed Café in Nelson. He loved the sounds, the aromas, and the adrenaline you get from a busy service. This was at the Boat Shed Cafe in Nelson, New Zealand. After working there and at other venues around the South Island, as well as completing his qualifications, Dale moved to Melbourne when he was 18 and began working at Hammer and Tong in Fitzroy under Emma Jeffery and Simon Ward. After Hammer and Tong, he worked at Little Big Sugar Salt on Victoria Street in Abbotsford as sous chef before starting at Terror Twilight also as sous chef. A few months later, he took over the head chef role and five years on he is executive chef of the group with 4 venues and a thriving catering kitchen. I sat down with Dale at Convoy in Moonee Ponds on a chilly Melbourne morning and had a really great coffee. It's a beautiful space with white walls, pale wood and a lot of lush plants on the huge deck. The menu is no run-of-the-mill café fare offering a very popular Turkish eggs dish as well as cinnamon scroll pancakes, a king prawn roll and a steak frites sandwich amongst other delicious options. Convoy turns one this week and they are offering free coffees on Friday. But I reckon you are in for a treat any time you go. And if you like great music, the other venues, Terror Twilight and Hifi spin vast amounts of vinyl as well as producing tasty wholesome food.

Prepare to journey into the heart of the Hip's 2009 album, "We Are the Same." This week, we're pulling back the curtain on an album that made fans wait an extra year for its release. We're not just talking about the music; we're delving into the nostalgia, the reception, and the adventure of listening to this collection of songs. TracksMorning Moon - Studio versionThe Last Recluse - Montreal 2009The Depression Suite - San Fransciso 2009Frozen in my Tracks - Syracuse 2009TranscriptTrack 1:[0:01] For the first time in over 20 years, hip fans had to wait longer than two years for new material. It was three years after we got World Container that Bob Rock came down from the mountain with the Stone Tablet Masters of what appeared to be a campfire album called We Are TheSame. Although it launched with a cool promo, the hip, performing live at the bathhouse, beamed to cineplex theaters across Canada, and it debuted at number one, I have absolutely no memoryof this album entering the zeitgeist. In fact, I could tell you that only Love Is a First made it to my ears before the Fully and Completely podcast. My first full listen of this album was followed by a visit to the grocery store where I bumped into my co-host Greg, and I remember us casually throwing around terms like milk toast andbeige when describing what we were getting into with this springtime release. What followed though is something amazing and it's something only music can truly do. [1:05] You see, I gave this album its due and by that I mean a good solid listening session. On walks, at my desk, on my patio, the beige started to turn into a kaleidoscope of colors and shapes. The album was making me feel nostalgic for my 1977 El Camino. I could envision loading up the back of this hog with camping gear and taking this record to the cottage for the May long and listening to nothing but. Yes, I had become a fan of We Are The Same. Today it's an album I reach for when I feel wistful and I want to reminisce with my past. I adore Morning Moon and the Depression Suite, but the deeper cuts do it for me too. Will the love that Pete and Tim felt on the Bob Rock produced World Container spill over onto this record, or will their first experience be like mine? We're here now, so we may as well be getting hip to the hip. Track 4:[2:31] Hey it's JD here and welcome back to Getting Hip to the Hip. I'm here every week with my friends Pete and Tim and what we do is we talk about the Tragically Hip one album at a time week over week trying to understand what it's like to hear thisband for the first time again. Pete, Tim, How the fuck are you guys doing? Ola, como estas? Buenas tardes. Bueno, bueno, bueno. Los fanes de Tragically Hip. That's how they would say it here. I'm not culturally appropriating. That's how people talk here in Spain. In Spanish, you mean? Yeah, yeah. And they wouldn't change the name of Tragically Hip. hip, they would just say tragically hip, just like they say. See, see, see. Cloud, cloud, or cloud, or cloud. I don't know where he's went to, but there was a guy on Facebook. He's in the Facebook group. And his name is Luca Tadia, I believe. And he's Italian. And he discovered the hip out of, he's an Italian, he's in a band. He's a singer-songwriter. [3:47] And he was at a really low point. And he discovered the hip. And he, he really feels so strongly about them that he's rewritten, rewritten. [3:59] The lyrics like transcribe, like not transcribe them. What word am I looking for? Translated them, but in many cases he's had to write his own because there's so many turns of phrase he's, he's having to write like his own sort of stuff, but, but to fit in the melodicstructure and then, you know, he, he alters the melodic structure a little bit, but he's released a whole whack and he's coming out with a record and everything, but I haven't seen, I haven'tseen anything about him in a while. So what a fucking surface, Luca, come back to it. I'll point out, I'll send some stuff to the thread later this week, but, um, I'm getting way, uh, way caught up in the weeds here because we're here to talk about a record we're here to talkabout, we are the same, uh, released in 2009, which interesting tidbit. This is the first time that a hip band had had to wait more than two years for a record since the band emerged in 1987. They had to wait three years. So it was 2006, then 2009. Was that the longest three years of hip's lives? Or what was going on during that time? I'm guessing the diehards were losing their minds. Yeah. Are they breaking up? What's going on? Like, Gord was doing solo stuff. Rob Baker was doing Stripper's Union in 2005. So he might have toured Stripper's Union in 2006. [5:22] I don't know, they did their usual stuff, but they, like, to my... [5:28] To my knowledge, they, I mean, the record still opened at number one, um, for the week that it was released, which was consistent with what the hip had been doing. I think they had eight in a row or something like that, but they just weren't part of the zeitgeist, you know, they weren't part of, or maybe it's just, they weren't part of my zeitgeist. That, that might be it. Uh, they, they might've been, but, but I feel like if they were as big as they were in 96 in 2009, then they would have never fell off my radar, sort of. And it wasn't that they fell off my radar. They, I just started listening to other music. I just, you know, I- Were you aware of their whole, their whole bathhouse performance at the end or before the release? Like they played at the bathhouse to, they played a show? I would have lost my, like, I would have lost my mind. So I, yeah, I don't, I don't know. [6:24] It was just out of my reference point. Yeah, so I read that they played at the Bathhouse and it was screened, I guess, at Cineplex Theatres across Canada. It's like, these guys were, you know, celebrating for sure. Do you know what Cineplex Theatres owns? One of the things they own is a branch of places called the Rec Room. And one of the Rec Rooms is in Toronto, where we're going to be hosting our event. And we hope you all make it. Get out of fucking town. Wait, what's this event? What are we doing? [6:59] Come on be on board I hate the pull it out game That's gonna be a fun night. I just can't wait. That's gonna be a real fun. Oh, don't lie Jay Jay D Your pull-out game is great. [7:15] Oh my gosh He's got like 12 pockets on his outfit right now he's pulling shit out of her. Oh man. Yeah, I know, the event's going to be great, tickets are selling through, so get themwhile you can. Hit them quick. Get more information on our Twitter feed or send any of us an email, JD, Pete, Tim at gettinghiptothehip.com you can do all of that and more. So let's get into this Bob Rock produced record. This one's recorded entirely at The Bath House, which is a stark contrast from World Container, which was recorded at a big studio in Vancouver and a relatively large studio in Toronto. This was now The Hip on their own ground. I feel like as a result of that we get a very different sounding record. It's got like the nuances the nooks and crannies that the bathhouse records are sort of becoming famous for but it's still like holy shit is this record produced. Like it is depending on what side of the fence you're on it's either intricate or too busy you know like in terms of some of the arrangements. [8:34] The general, I don't know, gist of it that I was kind of reading about is a little bit of a love-hate. I don't know. I also read that that extra year they're waiting for Bob Rock to returnfrom a carnival cruise. Like a really extended long carnival cruise. Oh, wow. That's boggers. That's my joke right there. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, I got that, it took me a second. Yeah, me too. Sorry. We'll dial it in, we'll dial it in in post. I'll test my new editing tools on that one. Punch up the laughter. Okay. No, I really, I read a bit about this album. It is very much highly produced. I feel like it's, the all music reviews, three stars. Yeah. Which is lower, you know, by at least half a point than usual. And one term they used about it was a creative bankruptcy. Like, they pulled out all the stops. All of the stops for this album and tapped the tank. So I thought that was a pretty fucking harsh review. That's very harsh. Considering three years, man. Yeah, no, no, don't be sorry. I just, I don't see that it's, it's, yeah. [9:59] I like this. I like this record. I'll tell you guys. I didn't. The first time I heard it, did not. So I was the same. Yeah, yeah. Let's hear about your experience listening to the record. I was kind of the same. I listened to it. Well, I listened to parts of it. I couldn't sit through it all thefirst try. It was like, I don't know, it was like reading a series of books and getting to the next book and it's like, oh my gosh, this book's going to take me forever. That's what it just felt like to me and finally got through it. I'll say finally. [10:32] And wasn't so sure, but you know there were songs, I'll just say that there were songs that grew on me after repeat listens and I and I got to a point where I thought I could see howhip fans either embraced the whole trajectory of the hip and continued to absolutely love this band and I could see how some hip fans were like Like, what the fuck? When are we going to get this Bob Brock guy out of here? Yeah. Because, I mean, I feel like that's still, I don't know, still a thread going through it. So yeah, that was my take. Listened to it kind of everywhere. [11:11] I just, I gave this album some real attempts. But I listened to it also, I think, less than other albums in general. Okay. Pete? You know, I say we get into it cause I got a lot to say about the, you know, the record as we go. And I'll leave my comments to the record as we move on. Okay, well then kick us off here. Let's start right out with Morning Moon. I mean, I thought it was, I thought it was, let's see. It definitely a different tone to begin the record on with the acoustic vibe, the melody was really cool. I was surprised by the strings, but as we'll talk about as we go on here, the strings become a thing. Hey, that's a good way of putting it, Tim. [12:12] There's a really cool country lick with the electric guitar, I like it. Chorus is catchy, heavy harmonies, twangy guitar. I got some, I got some like a little bit of Eagles vibes on this too. Sure. Clearly hear it. My note that I, my note I wrote down was, it's got an AM radio chorus. Yeah. Yeah, totally, totally. But, but. In a good way. Yeah, in a good way. But I wasn't like, I wasn't like, ah, ah, fuck. This is, yeah. I mean, this is not... [12:49] This is not music at work. This does not grab you by the balls and punch you in the face and then throw you down the fucking hill. It doesn't do that. [13:02] Not to say that I want that, but yeah, interesting start. That's all I'll say. Track one. We'll go there. We'll talk about Bob Rock as we keep going. Oh, Bobby, I thought, you know, this is an interesting start as well. It's got this country rock ballad, you know, it's like, are we jumping into a good condition 90s Chevy Suburban driving through Nashville in this one, like heading to the barbecue place? I don't know. But it also felt like, you know, I was listening through and I also thought this is so singable and it's kind of lovely and it's balladish and And it feels a little country. There's slide guitar. There's some, I don't know, cello or something that comes in. There's strings happening. And then I thought, I could rewrite the lyrics of this song and play it for anybody, and they would like it. I could actually turn this into a country music song. Or you could turn it into, dare I say, a Christian rock song. It just felt really mainstream, stream kickoff song to this album. It was like beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I like dug it, but it felt like programmed, I felt kind of programmed. [14:26] I would never suggest rewriting Gord Downie lyrics. I agree. But the music merited a feeling of, this could be a song played on different types of radio stations. It just, yeah. I wanted, you know, the kickoff on an album for me, it's got to be gripping. And it puts you in the seat. And you put on your seat belt. And you go. And this one was like, OK, what's number two? [14:56] Which, before we get into number two, honey, please, which, from each of you, song would you have used to kick off the record if you were sequencing the record? Is there a song on there that does that, that throws you down the hill, or grabs you by the throat? I know which one I would not, out of all of them, but I'll take it. It's a good question, but to be honest with you, I feel like this record, there are songs on. There's even notes that I'll say when we get into other songs. I feel like there's songs that don't belong in this record. Gotcha. Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, they kicked it off the way they kicked it off. And I think it's, you know, you can't argue with what's been done. And I can't make their fucking decisions. But yeah. Yeah, I don't know. That's a tough question. It's a good question, but I can't answer it, JD. All right, honey, please. Oof. Here's another one I thought that kind of had this R.E.M. feel. I have East Street Band written down. OK. I also had. The beginning just reminds me of that piano lick at the beginning. Just reminds me of Springsteen. [16:08] It just feels like it's going into a Springsteen song. OK. This one, it somehow made me think of the band Big Country. I think they were, where were they from? Were they Scottish? I don't know. It just, Gord comes in softly, you know, I kind of felt like, oh, I wonder if they do this one live and he's angrier. Like it just, it just, I felt like there was a shift that wasn't in this song. Like it just felt like a great radio song, but at the same time. It was also playing in the ceiling speaker system when I was in Vancouver, BC getting my teeth cleaned. You know, like it just, it was really, it like, it was like I couldn't figure out what it was. It was that, or it was almost a wedding song. Like I couldn't figure out what this song was supposed to be. I just, it just kind of stumped me. It was good and sing along and everything, but it was also like, where are we going? I know, it's hard. This is that song, this might be the album that got kicked in the balls at the show on September 1st. Somebody might just walk up and kick me in the balls. Oh, there are big fans of this record. This might be that album. I'm wearing a cup, dude. [17:33] On Amazon, like, no fucking way. I'm wearing a mouth guard. I'm wearing a wig and I'm going to have like a voice modifier on my throat. I can just set you guys up behind the screen like so nobody can see you. You know, one of those things like silhouette. The old cage. You remember like watching fucking Roadhouse where the band played behind like a fucking like a chain link fence. And that band was? Jeff Healy and the... Fuck, Jeff Healy and the... I can't remember the band. I would have just said Jeff Healy band. Fucking shadow puppets. Here's my shadow puppets, Pete and Tim. Jesus Christ, man. Great fucking man, though. You know, we've been drinking the Kool-Aid and sometimes you get a little gherpie from, you know, too much Kool-Aid. I think that's just kind of... It's funny you say that, Tim, because I'm reading my notes for this song and it's... And honey, please... You've got gherpie written down. No, no, it didn't matter. This is my complete notes on this song. Heavy production. Producer is really mixing the Kool-Aid here. [18:44] Even how the drums are mixed, I mean, I just, I could not, I could not listen to this fucking song enough to even see, like, I just was like, yeah, dentist's office. I'm at, I'm at a fucking Sears or, or I'm at a Hallmark store and I'm just like, what the fuck, man? I just want to get out of here so I can put on fucking Black Sabbath or the, or fucking, or fully and completely in my fucking car. Like I just, Christ, excuse my language, but yeah, it justwas not taken, not taken. The, the, I'll just, there's more, but the, the, you're right about the drum mixing because there were a couple times where I was like, there's nothing wrong with this drummer. Why are we doing what we're doing here? Oh, it was like fucking the right tom went from the right ear to the left ear and then the kicks going back. I'm like, what the fuck are we doing? Why? Like, just give me the fucking drums. I don't need a ping pong set in my ears. It was just too much. I hear you on the E Street Band JD, but yeah, other than that, could not, oh, yeah, that's all I got. That's all I got. you. [20:05] J.D. we need to rerecord the start and you're going to be like, this is where I lost my friendship with Pete Dibb. And they were banned from the roof of the United States. No entry. No entry. [20:22] The first time I sat down and listened to the record was for Fully and Completely, the podcast. By the way, Pete, it's Fully Completely. Fully and Completely was our podcast. Whoa, easy, JD. Okay, now you're cut. Okay, all right. Mr. Details. This is episode... He's gotten our back. This is like, I mean, we got one record after two records. I should know this, you're right. I should know this at this point. I don't know if I can say this. So I listened to it then and I like absolutely, it did nothing for me. It did nothing. Like, I was just like, I don't even, I didn't pick up anything. I can't even say, oh, well, the Parchment Suite I really liked, you know, like, no, it just washed over me. And that really disappointed me and so I gave it like a session listen. Probably two or three weeks later, where I sat down and listened to it two or three times in a row. And that's when I latched onto a few songs. I won't say what they were, but I latched onto a few songs. And then picking it up again for this podcast and listening to it, it's like I'm finding some of these songs feel weirdly nostalgicnow, you know? And Honey Please, I like the tone of of his voice, like, I like what he's doing with his vocals on this song. Yeah. Uh, like he's, he's really playful. Like Jimmy's like, no, not like that. [21:51] Well, I was just in shock because I thought for a second, Gordani was sitting across from me. Oh, I thought you meant Tim was having a fucking seizure. No, it's, it's what I've been doing around the house when I need a refill. It's like, No, this, you know what, I'll tell, I'll tell you something, this, this is a really weird analogy, but like, I'm not a, I'm not one of those guys who's, I mean, I think the last time beforethis time I had been to a strip club when I was like 18 years old, you know, when you're 18, this is the first thing you can do. You go to a strip club. Yeah. Uh, and I had gone to one, one time after I was in a very committed and loving relationship And it was like, I got there and I was like, there's this beautifulwoman and she's talking to me and she smells nice and everything. And she's like, it's not doing, it's not, it's not taking. [22:44] And then like, you know, the night goes on, I have a couple of beers and I'm like, still not working. I don't understand what it is. And, you know, turns out, at least in terms of the strip club, it was because I love the person I was with and I didn't want to be there. I was not happy about where I was at. But that's how I felt listening to this song, is that no matter how much I tried, it did nothing for me whatsoever. Wow. It wasn't because it was your aunt, Shirley? I mean, for art, for art, that is the most harsh criticism you can give, right? I hate to say that. I hate to say that. This song is- No, no, I'm fine. This is what this is, right? This is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that you're being honest rather than pandering, you know, I'm not going to pander and I'm going to be honest about this. It means the stuff that you have loved is that much more real to me. You know, thank you. Yeah. I mean, when you go back to, I mean, talk to me about fucking trouble with the hen house and I'm Christ. [23:52] Well, and just wait for next, next week. Ooh. Okay. I'm, I'm, you know, I don't want to get to the last recluse. [27:09] Oh, so, you know, fun chorus, lots of oohs, aahs. You know, I like a good ooh-aah section in a song when it works. I don't mind it. It can make it fun. But this song is so loaded. It's like tons of instruments. I don't know if there's an accordion in this song. I don't know. There's keys. There's tons of layers. It's got this ominous start. Um, it's a really bridge. Yeah. Bridge is so ominous. This chanting. Yeah. Yeah. I, which I thought was kind of cool, but, uh, you know, the keys fade out at the end and, and Gord's just, who are you? Who are you? Who are you? And it's, uh, I don't know what the song is, is about or who, or I don't know. It just, it just was like, whew, this, this song's loaded. Did you watch those videos I sent you guys? There's a trilogy from this record and Gord produced the videos and I sent them as a link. I don't think I think I said I was going to watch it because I wasn't in a place with Wi-Fi and thenI never watched it. I think that's my excuse also. [28:23] I don't remember getting it from you. You have to resend it. I'll resend it. I would watch it. Yeah, I want to read my notes verbatim here. Okay, um because yeah, I I really cool opening. I got YouTube vibes, a little Alice in Chains with the acoustic. [28:46] Guitar. The melody is good but it's very Coldplay. I got a lot of Coldplay vibes from this song. Not that I'm a Coldplay fan but unless you've been living under a fucking rock, you know what Coldplay sounds like. [29:00] And not to say that Coldplay's bad. There's a market for them. I like the keyboards but again with like the chanting and everything like I wrote down I do not recognize this band and it's no it's no surprise to me that Bob Rock did not produce the nextrecord because I feel like the whole time this guy Bob Rock whoever he is I don't know how he sounds I don't know where he's from but he's like listen guys nah this is the way it's gottabe I've been in the business for years I did this Metallica group you hear of them you heard of them they're from they're from California I know how to do it. It's just what you got to do to make this record sound good. Okay, I'm a big time record producer here. Like, I mean, the whole band is just like, Gord, what do you think? Do you know how much this haircut costs? Yeah, I put my my my pants on the same way as everybody else. The only difference is I make gold records. Like, I'm like, just like, fuck, dude, I'm the band must have just been sitting sitting there like, okay, all right, we'll do this. [30:08] Hey Gord, we're taking a coffee break right now. Hey Gord, I just ran into fucking Bob Rock coming out of the bathroom and he says we should put some Gregorian chants on thenext song. And he's like, you said, you said what? Okay, I guess we'll try it. Like it just, I don't know. Yeah. I, let's, can we go to Coffee Girl? Because it's not just. Sure. Can we? Can we? I promise, I promise this is gonna get better, but not with this song. Yeah, it is, it is. Not with this song. [30:43] It's a rollercoaster ride. This song. I'm reading I'm reading verbatim here feels like a song used for a scene transition in a romantic comedy when the guy and the girl break up before the final act where they get backtogether. Coffee girl. It's like I'm just picturing like, ah, fuck, he broke up. It's a montage of like her at work alone, pissed off because the guy fucking broke her heart, whatever the And, and, and like the trumpet, it's like, it was cool, but it was just like, what thefucking trumpet? Like, what is, what is going on right now? [31:24] And, and I mean, maybe it's supposed to make you feel like you're in a, like, give you that, that so I made her an expert or so I married an expert vibes. You remember that? Yes. Yeah. Like with a trumpet, like a lowly coffee shop in San Francisco, like, I don't know what the fuck's going on, but I'm just like, okay, this band is takingdirection. This is not, not to say it's not the same guys, but they're just like, they're led astray on some songs with this record, I feel. That's all I'm saying. Interesting thing. Yeah. I'd want this, this song, I got this, like, I agree with you pretty much, but I got creepy vibes from it. Get to the back door, look around, then turn the key, turn on all the lights, take down the chairs and make things neat. One night he'll make you choose. I mean, what? This is... Well, the beginning part is her opening the coffee shop. This song's creepy though. It's, I don't know. There's, there's... So I had that little sentiment about it. And then I was like, I remember when you could walk in Starbucks and you'd hear like like a catchy song. And then they had CDs for sale next to the cash register. I remember those days. And you can like take from, you know, the holiday Starbucks playlist, but it was on CD for sale right there. Right. I wondered, like, yeah. [32:51] You used to have a song you could download too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, was this a Starbucks song? I don't think it was a single. Tim's all creeped out and JD's like, no. JD's like, no, I've worked at a coffee shop. I've worked at a Starbucks before. You turn the lights, you turn the fucking key, you put the chairs out. Tim, what the fuck is the problem? Yeah, the problem is one night he'll make you choose. What is that? Like there's... You gotta watch the videos. Watch the videos, all right? I don't... Fucking... Okay. All right. Homework. Homework. Now, I agree with you. This song is very milquetoast. Milquetoast. Good work. You know? Yeah. It's fine. But it's enhanced significantly by this video. You enjoy it a little bit more. But... Well, in that essence, do you feel the song was kind of made for video, hand in hand, kind of? Well, I don't know why it wouldn't have been a single then, you know? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Like, back in the day, they were releasing six, seven singles a record to give those record legs. [34:06] Well, it's got, I think, second biggest plays, or third biggest plays for this entire record on Spotify. Definitely a single category as far as listening is concerned. And I said it at the top of the fucking conversation about this tune is that it feels like it's made for a movie, you know? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I thought of the same. Only played 77 times live. So it's not really a big live song. No, it'd be super rare. Yeah. You guys are such data whores. Such data whores. You started it with your Spotify. I really wasn't with this album until yesterday. I usually do some research along the way in this album. I really just tried to listen to it, and I tried to listen to it. You weren't inspired. And then yesterday, got into some of the data stuff. All right. Let's go to track number five. Let's go. So, the acoustic guitar feels kind of played hard. Like, I don't know if you caught this, Pete, but it felt like. I don't know. I don't think it feels forced, but the strumming of the acoustic guitar in the beginning feels a little bit annoyed or something. I don't know. There's some sentiment in there. [35:33] Drums felt kind of simple, and then everything kind of thickens up, and there's big solos in here. It's over a six-minute song, So it's building us up in song length. I mean, this is a long song for the hip. [35:52] What else did I have in my notes here? Oh, there is, you know... Sorry, I have to read this real quick. You know, the importance of this one is just how it is all about the reference of the residential school system. We actually watched a kind of docudrama film about the residential school system up there and all the government's policies towards First Nations people. And that's some heavy, heavy stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's just the song, let's see, I read the song is a response to this basically a cool you've apologized. Oh no, no, this was a Gord quote, I believe. Cool you've apologized, but nothing has really changed. The damage has been done. People are still suffering as a direct result of the government's policies. You know, that's, it's, it's not an apology song, but it's sort of. This one's just big. It's just a big song. Another one. [37:06] Yeah, before I speak about the song, I'm going to go back to one thing I said in the previous pod. I really wish to God Gorda was alive today, because I feel like the governments of the world, specifically the United States government and the Canadian government are just fucking itspeople in so many ways. Not making this a political thing, but like, Absolutely, I just I feel like that guy is a guy who would speak out and and you know, it's funny because I remember watching like video ofTrudeau when he died and Saying what a great guy he was and him actually tearing up but thinking like god, man I wonder if Gord hadn't died and what he'd be saying about some of theshit going. Yeah, no doubt the war or, you know, anything that happened during COVID, all that shit. I just really, you know, that guy is an important voice for the people in Canada. And I think, I don't know, I say North America, although there's not a lot of Americans that know the hip, but I sure shit do now. So, but getting back to the song, I liked this one. I, Tim, I certainly felt the same vibe. acoustic guitar in the beginning sounds extremely dated so that's where I think you got the vibe. [38:28] There's a lot of chorus and a lot of reverb it's just like way too like is this is this 1991? 92? It sounded like the same guitar tone on the song More Than Words by Xtreme. It just but strumming instead of that Like it just was too much. That being said, again, the strings come in, but there's a lot more of that on this fucking record. Rob Baker kind of saves the day. Solo starts coming in. The hit is great. The chorus is awesome. I love it there's some really cool arpeggios that are done in the second verse that just mix up the the sound of the song and then Rob Baker's solo it I Mean, I don't know dude. I'm willing to think he's probably the biggest fucking Pink Floyd fan in all I thought the same thing! That motherfucker, it's just fucking David Gilmour. I mean, I'm like, is Gilmour playing on this fucking record or is it Rob Baker? I mean, it's not even like, if you heard it, you'd be like, oh yeah, it's David Gilmour playing guitar. Like, no, it's actually Rob Baker, which is cool. I like it. And then Paul Amois doing like a Beatles thing, like with the guitar, like bouncing back and forth. [39:57] But in the end, I felt like this song had literally, I don't wanna miss a thing, Aerosmith, Armageddon vibes. Like it was produced to that level. Like it was good. Cinematic. But it was just, yeah, like, whoa, like, did I see this on the IMAX? I've got to listen to this song in IMAX. Yeah, to really appreciate it. Oh my gosh. I had the Pink Floyd reference, not so much of the guitar playing, but more as the all-encompassing feel of this album and the journeys throughout it, because it felt like it was trying to belike this massive Floyd production. That's one thought I had relating to the Floyd. [40:44] But the song, it made me wonder. This is where I dove into the story a little bit more. I wanted to know who Honey Watson was. Did you find out who Honey Watson is? Anybody? The reference here. So Gord apparently was watching a CBAE, CBC news story about the residential schools and started to write this song about it. And then the news story shifted to some story in Haiti and the news correspondent's name was Connie Watson. And he heard it as Honey Watson. And he thought that was funny, so he incorporated her name, Connie Watson, as Honey Watson into the song. Just thought it was cool and wrote it down. So he's like going through this really heavy topic, like one of. [41:36] Canada's maybe, you know, top three heaviest topics, residential school system. And he's throwing in these funny little, I thought they said, honey, Watson, her name's Connie Watson. I'm going to put this in this fucked up story, you know, it's like, God damn what this guy can do. And Pete, I completely agree with you. We, we, if I could choose, of course, any of us to have Gord still around. Yes. But we also need the band. Like, this is something I kind of want to save to the end, but of the whole, all of our experience, but like, we don't have art in the form of music that isscreaming about issues going on right now and making people angry. We don't have like, I can't name a band right now that has death threats against it from groups of idiots. [42:31] You know, I just don't know, like, there's a lot of- Hang tight, Tim. Our record comes out in December. Yeah, there we go. I was just going to say, there's a lot of, there's a lot, there are many lesser known, but on the rise, you know, kind of post-punk stuff coming out or going on, you know, like there's a lot. I agree with you though, man. There's just like, there's no- There's no mainstream people out there who are really screaming about issues going on around the world and ruffling feathers. [43:07] Like so much. Where's the song War Pigs, dude? Fuck, I've second time I've mentioned Sabbath during this fucking podcast. But like, where's the song War Pigs? Right now. Right now. It's on my hard drive. Back off. Hey, no, but like, I mean, I mean, here we are. [43:27] You know sending Billions of dollars to fund war all around the world and where the fucking dude, you know what? Um, there's a great fucking tiktok or whatever the fuck it is And it's some guy like i've seen it. Don't pretend like you don't tiktok all the time. No, I don't I don't have it But I wish I did um for that purpose, but there's a guy's Sitting in his car. He actually has his own account. Yeah. Look it up at pete. Um, it's all about his hair No, dude, there's a fucking guy sitting in his car and he's just like, you know, you guys in your punk bands and you were young, you were fighting against thesystem. [44:06] But somewhere you got old and you got fucking soft and you joined a party and it dude, he just fucking nails it. This guy fucking nails it. Wow. He fucking nails it. And it's like when I see shit like people like Henry fucking Rollins, like supporting the Democratic Party, which is like, fuck the Republicans, fuck the Democrats, fuck them all. Your job is to be against the system. You fuck. Excuse my language, but it's just like that's yeah, that's how I feel like, like a guy like Gord had. I don't know. The interviews I've seen with him and so much integrity, he wouldn't waffle. He'd tell he'd call a fucking spade a spade when he saw it. And if he smelled bullshit, he'd call it out no matter who it was. I don't know. That's how I feel, man. And yeah, you're right, Tim. We need the band. We need the band. We do. We need the band. Because the music's... Because not everybody watches the news and not everybody watches interviews. You hear music, though, man. You hear fucking War Pigs and you listen to those lyrics and you think, yeah, Smedley Butler was right. If you don't know who Smedley Butler is, listeners, Google him. He's not either. No, he's dead, but he wrote a good book. War is a wreck. Anyhow, too soon yet. He's been dead a while. It's a depression suit. [54:35] I had no idea what I was getting in store for when the song started, right? I mean, I was in the car and the display in my mediocre sound system, M-S-S. Clearly not my sound system. Fucking premium audio shit. My stock sound system. Anyways, on my screen it doesn't show the amount of time the song is. It just shows the amount of time it's been playing. And I just kept looking over. Like, I'm driving across town and I keep looking over. Like, god damn, how long is this song gonna go? The last song was like six minutes plus, right? Is this one a rock opera? Like, what is going on? It has this lovely start, but you really don't know where it's going. [55:26] The lyrics, I just, I was a little bit confused. The first listen, I thought we were really going to end around three and a half minutes, because that's when I was looking over. But we just kept evolving. It shifts gears, it speeds up, it gets more intense. Gord gets more loud. The strings get more loud. It just like, it's really climbing up this mountain. [55:50] And you know, part of the lyrics is, is what if the song does nothing? What is it doing? You know, what if the song does nothing? In one of the reviews of the song, which I later read, some of the hip fans who aren't as much into this album, they, you know, their, their response of what if the song does nothing waslike, yeah, what if it's not doing anything, you know, it's just confusion maybe? I don't know. Some fans were were like, no, I don't want to see how it ends because Gord's lyrics kind of ask for that. There's this, um... Kind of painful guitar solo at like eight minute mark. I mean the strings that loop and have this abrupt stop it's just this song is... It just goes. I've only listened to it three times I will listen to it again but the song to me was just... I just wonder what everybody was trying to do because it just was magnanimous. [56:59] It's giant. All right. Well, I will say I fucking love this. I thought I thought it was fucking magnificent. I think, you know, I finally with all the strings that are on this record was like, OK, I can dig them on this song. You know, I mean, it's a very, this is a very emotional record. It sounds like just lyrically, I don't feel like any of the first five songs really moved me that way. But there's a lot of musical references that he makes in here to like things like perfectfifths. The chorus is fucking amazing. When he starts warming up his voice, when he really starts digging his fucking heels in and he starts repeating, if this song does nothing, with the strings backing him up, I think are superpowerful. [58:03] They move me in this song, especially I listen to this song a lot in the car. I've talked about it once or twice, but, you know, it's a different experience when you listen to a song, when you listen to hip in my car or any music but you know I have a, The soundsystems, you know, it came with premium, but it's it's you know, it's it's a good It's a good audio system in my car. Frothy and quiet. Pete's premium sound system There's When the strings there's a cool syncopated rhythm that happens in the song and then when it when it breaks There's a part, because this is twodifferent songs, it's like 9 minutes and 27 seconds long and when this song breaks and it changes course, there's a part in it that is Alice Cooper's Only Women Bleed. Has anybody heard that song before? Yeah, sure have. It's that, it's fucking that, fucking it's the hook in that song they fucking use. And Gord's vocals are exactly that. [59:16] He smokes and drinks and don't come home at all. That's the lyric in the Alice Cooper tune. But it's fucking, I dig it. And then, you know, I liked Rob Baker's solo. It was very emotional. This is a really emotional tune. And I don't feel like I'm like, ah, this is fucking amazing. I just think it's, it clearly took a ton of work and a ton of work. Yeah. But I do feel like the band starts to come together on this track. You start hearing, okay, this seems more tragically hip than before. [59:58] So anyway, that's what I got for this tune. They played this, they played the song live 86 times. Like I wanted to look that up to see, like did they play it 10 times, six times? Theyplayed it 86 times. That's like not a ton compared to all the shows they played in their entirety, but that's a handful of times at this. Well, considering it's a later album, I mean, obviously they played the earlier ones more. Yeah. So to experience it and to know it and experience it live was probably fucking epic. Yeah, but who knows if it was with the strings too. [1:00:35] Yeah, I don't think they toured with strings for sure. Okay, okay. If you're playing like Royal Albert Hall or something, yeah, you're gonna have fucking strings, but like, youknow, otherwise... That didn't happen for sure, JD. [1:00:48] I don't remember. I don't remember that being... Like, this would have been around the time in their career that that would have been something that you might expect them to do. You know, like, we're going to do a tour with a full orchestra to get different venues on board and, you know, things like that. Bands do that kind of shit. The Cineplex Theater video. Would have been perfect for this record. Yeah, that Sinplex Theater air didn't include all the Strings people or whomever, do you know? Was that just the band? I can't imagine it would have. I'll try to find that. Yeah, if you know, send me an email, jd.gettinghiptothehip.com. That would be really cool. But let's go to the exact feeling. I didn't have a whole lot on this one. I felt like it had the DNA more, a little more so, of a hip song. Like a standout was the wah pedal going on and kind of this faint background guitar playing fade out at the end like I Honestly didn't have a whole lot not many exact feelings of this oneNot that I didn't like it. It just felt like a filler spot to me. I just kept rolling. Okay. I Yeah, okay. There. This song is the one that starts with the Castagnets, so very Spanish. Yeah. They wrote it for me. [1:02:15] I like the rolling melody, like the chord progression, the way they do it is really cool. It just it drops and then it comes back, it drops and it's very circular. The chorus is fucking amazing on this song. And the way it builds to the chorus is like, it definitely has more of a hip vibe. Like I said last time, I feel like they really start to like becomethe hip again. It's like, whoa, who's that other fucking band the first four songs or whatever, you know? And now there's like, okay, we're warmed up now, fellas, sit back and relax and enjoy. So I dug it. But then, you know, it just kind of doesn't know where to go, fades out. Tim doesn't like fade outs. the time I don't. Yeah, sometimes they're okay. Yeah, in this case, I just feel like the song was really cool. They had some cool ideas, and then there was nowhere to really go. They painted themselves into a corner and we're just like, okay, we're just going to stop painting the room. [1:03:18] You know, but yeah, but I got I got stuff to say about the next song. Yeah, go. Let's go. Queen of the Furrows. I love the beginning. I thought it was fucking awesome. This song is fucking Led Zeppelin three. It is Led Zeppelin three. I think Rob Baker's playing the mandolin. I don't know if Gord is. I don't know who's playing the mandolin. Would love to get some get a line on that. If you know anything, Pete at getting it at the hip.com. You like what you see what I did there? That was that was very professional. Did it sound natural? My boys all growed up. [1:03:57] I dug this song. The way the fucking chorus, the way the chorus comes in is like, it's just so different from the song, which is not very Led Zeppelin 3 because it's so heavy. It's fucking rad. And then the solo by Rob Baker, I'm going to read notes for Vadim here, Rob Baker melts dicks off people. He doesn't even melt your face, he melts your dick. I mean, this solo is fucking screams. It's so good. You can just tell he's in the zone and he could hear that he wanted to play that solo and he just wanted to fucking destroy it. And he just did. He delivered, I don't know if he did that in one take or if they mixed different solos together to make that, but it just sounds so good, dude. Goddamn, it's so good. I love it. Good song, good tune. Good tune. I'll pretty much agree with that. You know, it's one, I'm not going to add much to what Pete just put in, but what I did want to know what, you know, what this queen of the furrows is. And, um, it's actually a crown awarded annually to quote an agriculturally-minded young woman of Ontario. [1:05:23] And I'll just show you guys real quick. This is Kieran County Queen of the Furrow 2020 as part of Ontario's Plowman's Association. Can you see? Oh, yeah. What do you think? She's nice, you know, it's so to give everybody You know some insight into that photo. I would say she's dressed like a like you would think she'd be wearing overalls or something likethat, but she's dressed like a beauty queen. She's got a lovely dress on. She's got a sash and a tiara that looks, you know, like, that looks all beautiful and like prom queenie. Not at all what I would have expected the Queen of the Furrows to look like. Which for real... Not at all what I expected the Plowman's Association to be doing. Easy, Tim! Easy! But I didn't know, furrows is the word for the lines, you know. That's right. In the farm from the machines planting seeds or doing whatever you do. I mean, now I know when I'm sitting in the window seat on Alaska Airlines, covering the West Coast as I do. [1:06:37] I thought the guitar solo, it hearkened me back to some GNR. That's all I'll say about that. Certainly. this I guess just lastly the ending had this noisy but kind of quiet background guitar feedback something like there was something something playfulhappening with some guitar noise and the congos like this was one of those interesting enders but but kind of a cool song. Speed River. So, Speed River, I was like, ah, okay, I'm kind of digging this one. This felt a little more like what I was hearkening back to, Liking of the Hip. This was a single. Yep, yep. This has, again, a big guitar solo, which quiets down into keys and some rim shots from drumsticks happening. [1:07:34] This house sounds like a bomb hit it is a fucking cool lyric. I didn't know if that was referencing the feeling of recording and just being in the zone. This is what I was imagining, just being in the zone of the music just feeling so good with yourbandmates. You know, this house feels like a fucking bomb hit it because we are destroying with this music. But this song is kind of cool. a little more, I don't know, a little more fun in an easilysingable way. You know, it has a somewhat fitting, abrupt ender to it. It might have been... At first glance, it was like, this might be my song on the album. I'm not sure. Don't give it away, buddy. I didn't. I left it hanging a little. All right. He said it might. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I stand corrected. Speed River. I'd love to agree with Tim, because I love agreeing with him, but the tonal licks were cool. [1:08:45] Overall, though, not impressed. I feel like this song was written to play live. I mean, literally, they wrote it and were like, yeah, we don't care how this fucking sounds on the record. It's just gonna be a fucking banger to play live. Yeah, I'm sure it was great live. How many times did they play it there, Tim? Let's look. It was probably like a- Oh, I thought you had it pulled up hard. I do. It's just on, I got it right here. It probably was awesome, you know, to play like the fifth song of a show just to keep the crowd going. It was played 11. This was played 11 times. So this song was probably a treat for people who do it. You know, it was probably a fucking treat. Yeah. I guess so. I heard the rim shots and the keyboards, it's just felt so country pop, like, I felt like I felt like I should be at, like, the lake with my, like, pseudo country Republican voting friends, like, 12Bud Lights deep being like, yeah, this is fucking mad, right? Yeah, this is fucking cool. Yeah. Fuck, yeah. [1:10:00] So that was Bobby and. Yeah. You know, I don't know. It's just the vibe I got. I don't know why, but I felt. I felt like if I heard the song live, I'd be like, fuck, yeah. But on the record, it was just. It was like a bad Viagra pill, not that I've ever taken Viagra, but I don't know why. That's why. That's what I thought of. But it's like somebody selling you like a, like a placebo and be like, yeah, this will, this will do it. And you take it and you're like, I didn't do anything. [1:10:35] I think it was 2009 that we went to Mazatlan. That's kind of throwing me back to bad Viagra pills. Okay. I just thought, because you know, songs, you want to say this song to getmy engine going. That's why I did that. Anyway. If you look at the blueprints of this song, though, it should work like it should. It should all be there. Yeah, yeah. It's got an interesting chorus. But you're right, the sum of the pieces don't add up. Now, there are people that will love this song and tell us why you love it. It'd be great to hear. You could love it, but compare it to the shit that they've done. [1:11:19] And we're not in the compare and contrast game. We're not comparing apples and and oranges, groeries and forges. But I mean, dude, like. You're going to put this up against fucking fireworks, go fucking freak off, as Ricky LeFleur would say. Freak, freak right off. I mean, Christ, I mean, not even close. Right. Just I. But you're right, Judy, the sum of it, you know, it has all the components. It's like, Hey, babe, I was going to make this amazing soup for you. I put all the ingredients in, but for some reason it still tastes like shit. Yeah. Yeah. I won't go. Yeah. I won't, I won't go that far, but yeah. [1:12:08] Well, you know, you know where I'm going. Yeah. Well, with it, with this album and where we're at now and with, with all these journeys of these songs, I mean, we've gone fromlike three minute songs to nine minute songs, these, these past two, Queen of the Froze and Speed River, they feel like kind of placed in there to fill it out a little bit. But they also feel to me a little bit like past albums filler songs. So yeah. To me, they were good and they represent. But in this particular album, it's almost like, guys, we had 10 days book to record. We're at day four and you're feeling done. What do you have? They were part of this for two months. What do you have that we could pull in here? Jesus Christ. What about that song, Speed River? I just hope Bob Brock can retire after this. Yeah. What was that? [1:13:02] I just said, I hope Bob Rock retired after this or, or no, no offense to Bob Rock. Cause he produced some great shit, but just like, or found a band that he was more compatible with because it just. Yeah. I feel you. I feel you. I don't feel, and that's, you know, you guys dug the last record and that was him. And, uh, and, and you turned me back onto it by your, by your digging of it. You know, it's, it's just, it's just interesting. It's it sure is. I mean the last record I I it kind of won me over quickly and I believe I said this, you know, I went online to see how I could get it on vinyl and And then the more I listened to it the less Ilooked into Getting it on vinyl. I'm watching literally watching a crow in my backyard right now I'm going to destroy. [1:13:59] An old crow? I have a crow right now, destroying. Hey! Go! I love birds. I'm a birder. And this crow is destroying my cover over my... It's too complicated. I didn't know that crows in Portland speak English. Did you know that, Jamie? I did not know that either. That is a fact. I would have assumed they spoke Croatian. Oh shit. Fuck man. JD takes a sip of his fucking whiskey and says, I'm out bitches, finish the podcast on your own motherfuckers. I printed out the article, I didn't really, but I printed out the article about dads who throw out dad jokes are better dads than dads who do not throw out dad jokes. That may be true, but I'll tell you what, um, uh, camera, wait, what was it? Pigeon camera? Pigeon camera. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be cool if we, they did a crow camera. At least you havealliteration. [1:15:08] I guess crows weren't as smart, but crows are supposed to be really smart. They're fucking smart. And they, they have face recognition skills. They, they remember people. Frozen in my tracks. [1:18:58] You know, I think it's kind of a pleasure. It's a little bit of a gift, or maybe it's a huge gift, when Gord does his, what do we call it, when he speaks over... Spoken word! Yeah, when he does a spoken word fucking poetry, trippy stuff, like this song has it, and we got it, and I'm happy at this point on any hip song to get that. It's got kind of a... That's cool. Yeah, I mean, come on. It's got somewhat of a spooky start. The snare on this one's a bit tuned up, and the bass is like, lack of a better term for thuddier or deeper. It's like the drums felt a little bit different to me. [1:19:43] This, you know, Gord at the one minute mark, he's already screaming in this song. [1:19:48] I thought that, I don't know, with the bridge at like two minutes, this kind of locomotive feeling, I thought this song reminded, it made me wonder if Bob Rock, look, can yousqueeze call him Bobby? Because if he listens to this, I just want him to be Really upset. It's called a 

Ep 252 - Growth, Expansion, and Fatherhood, a Conversation with Kieran Spiteri from Yolk.GroupBrace yourselves for a stimulating conversation today as we welcome back a familiar face, Kieran Spiteri, known to many of you as the driving force behind Melbourne's acclaimed café, Terror Twilight. His plate has been full, navigating his expanding business, initiating new ventures, and still finding time to perfect the art of a great coffee.Today, we delve into many subjects: the emergence of promising leaders within his cafés, the grand opening of his newest endeavour, Hifi, the inception of an innovative hospitality group named Yolk.Group, and an insight into his role as a father to two young boys. Juggling parenthood and a thriving career is no simple task, but Kieran seems to manage it with finesse and grace.We'll examine how Kieran has cultivated leadership within his hospitality brands, mirroring his meticulous process for brewing the perfect coffee. And do I detect a hint of anticipation in the air? It promises thrilling new developments and plans for Terror Twilight Catering. As for Hifi, will there be a continuation of the story with new branches? We shall uncover.During our previous encounter, we discussed the exciting challenge of infusing the essence of Terror Twilight's culture into a new café in Moonee Ponds, fittingly named CONVOY. We're curious to hear about that journey's progression and any obstacles that may have surfaced. Furthermore, Kieran will share his experience of balancing paternal duties with hospitality leadership and how he's imprinting his legacy on the industry.Please find our guest information here:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yolk.group/Please find us here at POH:Website: https://principleofhospitality.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/principle_of_hospitality/Mentioned in this episode:Square POS 2Hospo is all about connection – with your customers and your team. But what if your tools could also connect? That's where Square comes in... Square for Restaurants connects your front of house to your back of house. Your team to their schedules. And connects new revenue streams with your marketing – to reach new customers. Whether you have one location or many, Square has everything your business needs to connect your vision to reality. Website: https://squareup.com/au/en/point-of-sale/restaurantsSquare POS 2Hospo is all about connection – with your customers and your team. But what if your tools could also connect? That's where Square comes in... Square for Restaurants connects your front of house to your back of house. Your team to their schedules. And connects new revenue streams with your marketing – to reach new customers. Whether you have one location or many, Square has everything your business needs to connect your vision to reality. Website: https://squareup.com/au/en/point-of-sale/restaurants

Abrimos con la portada de este número, la estupenda version de un clásico de Pavement, Terror Twilight, que fue re-publicado en 2022 como Terror Twilight: Farewell Horizontal. Después descubriremos la música de los norteamericanos Monster Magnet, de los que escuchamos A Better Dystopia, publicado en 2021. También, escucharemos de nuevo la música de los canadienses Viovod, a través de sus décimo tercer álbum, Target Earth, publicado en 2013. Y cerraremos de vuelta con el gran Frank Zappa, del que escucharemos Little Dots, una recopilación de directos en los USA en 1972. Continue reading La Ruleta Rusa 09.2023. Pavement. Monster Magnet. Voivod. Frank Zappa. at La Ruleta Rusa Radio Rock.

On this week's Talkhouse Podcast we've got the Scottish singer and songwriter behind some of the catchiest songs of the past two decades along with the super producer who helped bring those songs into the world: Fran Healy and Nigel Godrich. Healy is the singer, guitarist, and chief songwriter of the band Travis, which really broke big with 1999's The Man Who, scoring mainstream hits with songs like “Why Does it Always Rain on Me” and “Turn.” They've since created a deep catalog that numbers nine albums. But for today's purposes we're going to concentrate on 2001's The Invisible Band, which Travis is giving a belated 20th birthday celebration for at the moment, including a US tour that starts this week. It can be difficult to follow up a massive success like The Man Who, and Travis turned once again to Godrich to help them chart the proper course. It wasn't the beginning, but rather the continuation of a long and fruitful relationship. Check out “Sing” from The Invisible Band. Godrich, by the time Invisible Band came around, had found massive success as the producer of Radiohead's OK Computer, and of course he would go on to be the sort of unofficial sixth member of that band—recording all of their albums and even playing music with Thom Yorke in Atoms for Peace. As you'll hear in this conversation, Godrich had some solid advice for Healy heading into The Invisible Band, though it's not necessarily advice he would give anymore. Beyond his work with Radiohead and Travis, Godrich has also produced classics by Beck—including Mutations and Sea Change—and Air and Arcade Fire and Roger Waters. The list goes on. In this conversation, the two old friends talk about their state of mind and state of life back when they commenced recording The Invisible Band in Los Angeles. They talk about Godrich's recent revelatory experience seeing the Pavement reunion tour—he also produced that band's swan song, Terror Twilight. There's even a story about a baby goat peeing in a very expensive guitar case. Enjoy. Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast and thanks to Fran Healy and Nigel Godrich for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting and social media platforms. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Welcome back to your Reunion Tour companion. Bob wraps things with a soberingly honest account of “Terror Twilight” and the band's initial break-up...& then proceeds to rank Pavement's entire discography! Next Sunday, Dinosaur Jr / Sebaoh's Lou Barlow tears into The Zombies! - Official playlist curated by Dave on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5ZAOjSDgtsIEPqJLOyBttO?si=ksjFXMqPTo2wz7qBVz-Vvg - June 25, 1999, Love at Glastonbury, Full Show: https://youtu.be/NoUp6UmAYDE - October 30, 1999: Later with Jules Holland appearance: https://youtu.be/2ZSRbBNTLuY - November 16, 1999, Live in Tilburg, Netherlands, full show: https://youtu.be/Xl1thlIGcEI - September 8, 2022–San Diego, Show 1, they're back!: https://youtu.be/td0revzciXM EPISODE LINKS - Bob's Twitter: https://twitter.com/BNastanovich CONNECT Join our Soldiers of Sound Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1839109176272153 Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/discograffiti Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/discograffitipod/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Discograffiti/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Discograffiti YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClyaQCdvDelj5EiKj6IRLhw Web site: http://discograffiti.com/ Patreon: www.Patreon.com/Discograffiti CONTACT DAVE Email: dave@discograffiti.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/DaveGebroe Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidgebroe/ CONTACT TODD ZIMMER: GRAPHIC DESIGN Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ToddZimmer and https://www.facebook.com/punknjunkradio Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_real_todd_zimmer/ and https://www.instagram.com/punknjunkradioshow/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/discograffiti/message

In this "Deep Dive," Matt, Glenn, and Tim discuss the new Pavement reissue release, Terror Twilight: Farewell Horizontal. Additional topics include Fruit Gushers, California Gold Rush-themed strip clubs, and the first episode of a new set-piece, "Taft Talk."

Topics: Neighborhood report, COVID numbers, Commonwealth in Park Slope, Wingbar on Smith Street, Henry Public, out of town visitors, continued return to office, Rough Trade, Other Half Rockefeller Center, Savak at Littlefield, Bob Weir at Radio City Music Hall, Wet Leg by Wet Leg, Live In New York City February 8 1975 by Alan Braufman, Terror Twilight by Pavement, The Bear by Walter Martin.

jD is back and he's got a contest to tell you about!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this week's episode of The Drop we chat luxury concerts in Mexico in the face of Omicron, scrubs getting another chance in the NBA, the new Garcia People's LP and Pavement's upcoming reissue of Terror Twilight. In addition we talk about the state of Osiris Pods, share our Top 3 concerts ever, and dip into 2012 for a look back at music from a decade ago.Osiris Podcast Recommendations:Salute The Songbird w/ Maggie Rose: Amanda ShiresSugar MapleTop 3 Concerts Of All Time:Dave:Wilco/Sonic Youth - Central Park Summerstage June 2003Tori Amos - Wallingford, CT August 1998Mclusky - University of London Union - November 2004Honorable Mention - Widespread Panic - Jones Beach July 1998 Brian:Neil Young & Crazy Horse - Bonnaroo 2003Low - Globe Hall 2019Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band - Chicago 1999HM: MMW - Bonnaroo 20032012 Albums:Mark Lanegan Band: Blues Funeral - Ode To Sad DiscoFlying Lotus - Until The Quiet Comes - Until The Colours ComeThe Drop is a Production of Osiris Media. It is hosted by Brian Brinkman & David Goldstein. The Drop is edited and produced by Brian Brinkman. Theme song by Amar Sastry. The executive producer of The Drop is RJ Bee. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

It's episode 12 and Paul, Mark and Chris are back, armed with 8 noteworthy Pavement songs to argue about! Oh, and they do argue!This episode has everything: great tunes, secret recordings from the Terror Twilight sessions, news about Mark's troll farm, Chris' love of Scatman John and the potential for retribution for Paul due to a controversial opinion about a Pavement song. Is he wrong? You decide. Unless you disagree with him, in which case, don't. Follow us on Twitter: @conundrumpod

The boys are back in podcast town with eight more fantastic Pavement tunes to pore over and for the first (and last) time in podcast history, Mark is the show's host! Will he be as successful as Chris or will Paul regret everything (again)?Plenty to discuss in this episode including Paul vs Mark in the upcoming landmark Internet court case, what Chris got for Christmas in 1992, how dreadful Edinburgh really is and, of course, another secret recording from the Terror Twilight sessions. Follow us on Twitter: @ConundrumPod

Pavement is one of the most influential indie rock bands of all time, yet the most obscure one TBCBYF has covered thus far. Although the band released their final record in 1999 and have been dormant since their reunion in 2010, they are gearing up for deluxe release of Terror Twilight, (produced by Radiohead's Nigel Godrich), and a tour to boot. This episode is the first to have its food recommended by actual Pavement member, Bob Nastanovich, which makes this whole thing an extra, special treat. Join me and my old high school friend, Andy Hinkel, as we discuss how all the members of Pavement came together, the night they and David Berman heckled Nirvana in Hoboken, what sets Stephen Malkmus's guitar playing apart from all the rest, and how much this “slacker rock” band actually, truly cared. All the while, we send a blender to heaven and enjoy a surprisingly delicious...   PLEASE RATE THE PODCAST HERE....

Here is Terror Twilight as envisioned by Producer Nigel Goderich, what do you think?Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

jD is back and he brought Bobby from Atlanta along as they discuss the album artwork for Pavement's last LP, Terror Twilight.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Ep 146 - Elevating a cafe experience to a new level of substance with Kieran Spiteri from Terror Twilight  This episode's guest is the owner and operator of one of the best cafes in Melbourne, Terror Twilight.  It has been a place in which myself and my co-founder Sash from Principle Design have had many a breakfast of recent times and we have always been taken back by the amazing vibes and impressive food. Tie that in with awesome coffee and vinyl tunes and you have a space that is simply compelling and welcoming, so it's a pleasure to welcome Kieran Spiteri to the show.  In this podcast we talk about how Kieran completely changed the offering during the 1st major lockdown and how it changed the business for the better, what made him realise he needed to improve as a leader, and the plans for scaling venues into the future. Please find out more about Terror Twilight here: Website: https://terrortwilight.com.au/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortwilightcollingwood/ And always connect with us at POH here: Website: https://principleofhospitality.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/principle_of_hospitality/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/principle-of-hospitality/message

Chris and Nick discuss Pavement's 1999 swansong "Terror Twilight", via Radiohead, Wings and David Bowie. And more Radiohead.

Pavement is one of The New Dad Rock's favorite bands, but perhaps you are not well-versed in their oeuvre. Let Keith and Steve guide you through their career highlights, regale you with anecdotes tangentially related to the band, and otherwise guide you on your search for enlightenment.If you're up for further exploration, please enjoy this (by no means exhaustive) playlist of Pavement songs from throughout their prolific but brief career."Box Elder" from the Slay Tracks: 1933-1969 EP* (1989)"Debris Slide" from the Perfect Sound Forever EP* (1991)"Summer Babe" from Slanted and Enchanted* (1991)"Here" from Slanted and Enchanted (1991)"Two States" from Slanted and Enchanted (1991)"Frontwards" from Watery, Domestic EP (1992)"Lions (Linden)" from Watery, Domestic EP (1992)"Silence Kit" -- also known as Silent Kid from Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain (1994)"Gold Soundz" from Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain (1994)"Cut Your Hair" from Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain (1994)"Range Life" from Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain (1994)"We Dance" from Wowee Zowee (1995)"Rattled By The Rush" from Wowee Zowee (1995) "Easily Fooled" b-side from Rattled By The Rush single (1995)"Grounded" from Wowee Zowee (1995)"Father to a Sister of Thought" from Wowee Zowee (1995)"AT&T" from Wowee Zowee (1995)"Give It a Day" from the Pacific Trim EP (1996)"Stereo" from Brighten the Corners (1997)"Shady Lane" from Brighten the Corners (1997)"Spit on a Stranger" from Terror Twilight** (1999)* these tracks were also Included on the Westing (By Musket and Sextant) compilation** for a further discussion of Terror Twilight, please see EP 1 of The New Dad RockSupport the show (https://teespring.com/stores/the-new-dad-rock)

In 1999, Pavement enlisted producer extraordinaire Nigel Godrich (Radiohead, Beck, etc) for the recording of what turned out to be their swan song, Terror Twilight. It was a contentious meeting of the minds. In the end, Nigel's favored track listing was discarded and the album was reordered by Spiral Stairs. Now, more than 20 years later, Keith and Steve describe Terror Twilight in the order by which it was meant to be heard.1>Ground Beef (aka Platform Blues)2~The Hex(x)3^You Are a Light4-Jesus In Harlem (aka Cream of Gold)5>Ann (Don't Cry)6. Folk Jam7 Major Leagues8`Terror Twilight (aka Speak, See, Remember)9_Carrot Rope10

With two episodes left in the year, Adam and Jackson are back to cover the five albums by Pavement, and their transformation that took place between them. What We Listened To Slanted and Enchanted (1992) Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain (1994) Wowee Zowee (1995) Brighten the Corners (1997) Terror Twilight (1999) Next Time on Deep Dive Slowdive Follow @dftapodcast on Instagram Follow @dftapodcast on Facebook Email Us

"W"elcome to another chapter of my Audio Thrifting Diary. We got a full house this week as the Mt. Rushmore of THRIFTY reunites for a big ass episode. We got Toddy. We got Josh. We got Kaeli. We got Ryan. This Week's Thrifty Finds / Discussion Topics : Marvin the Martian Snapback (Looney Tunes, 1991) Pittsburgh Steelers AFC Champions Hat w/ Tags (NFL, 1995) Archie Comics (1978) Pavement - Terror Twilight (1999) Multicolored Mesh Shorts (Neff, 2000s?) Growing up in Speech Therapy BUILD YOUR OWN BACKYARD FUN ZONE The yearly segment in which you have $20 to spend at a thrift store, building your perfect backyard for the summer. Sun's out. Fun's out. THRIFTY THRIVIA TRIVIA A head to head game, that asks questions in regards to our thrift haul finds. - Marvin the Martian, Archie, Hottest Song from 1999 Special thanks to : BLUFFS for "Alternate Reality", the theme to our show for many reasons Tell us about your thrift hauls at thriftypodcast@yahoo.com I'm sentimentally attached to things you've forgotten, it's time to get THRIFTY! The THRIFTY podcast is part of the SORGATRON MEDIA NETWORK FACEBOOK: THRIFTYpodcast TWITTER: @THRIFTYpodcast YOUTUBE: @THRIFTYpodcast

On this episode of Talking Terror,The Ghoul of Geek Keith wants to celebrate Valentine's Day eve in a special way. So turn down the lights, slip on some sexy silk, and grab that special someone as we discuss his film pick of the week; 2010's "The Twilight Saga: Eclipse". There's a horde of thirsty, angsty vampires killing people in Seattle but the biggest horror of this film? Who will Bella Swan choose? The weird, dead behind the eyes Edward Cullen or the strange, borderline stalker with epic pecs; Jacob Black? You'll have to tune in to find out this Wednesday night at 9 pm est. Are you Team Edward or Team Jacob? Fuck it, who cares. Be Team Talking Terror! 

Beyond Blade Runners and Replicants, there must be a place “Over the Rainbow” for us to exist in solidarity and equanimity. And certainly, the 21st Century hovering above us should be a cause for hope, not despair; yet even with this new century being no way near its quartermark, it's already given us a planet wheezing from ecological crisis-to-crisis, where an untenable economic system of neo-feudalism ravages plants and animals, as well as the rights of those we love (or should love). In the Terror & Twilight of Our Broken Age, what ideology best speaks and acts from a place made from compassion and love? Instead of passively looking at the new century that hangs in the sky, blinking obliquely above us, we should instead reorganize our motions to The North Star of Human Decency, namely that of Anarchy. For this 21st episode of The Future Is A Mixtape, Matt & Jesse will finally come out of the “political closet” and show some raw & real skin: they are both Anarchists Without Adjectives, and they believe that this ideology of love is the only practical solution to the world's byzantine disorders, fraught with confusion, warbling on without a just antidote. In their most personal and revealing podcast since the show's first episode, Jesse & Matt explore their disparate journeys to humanity's greatest romance, Anarchy; they will describe its origin story, its turbulent relationship with authoritarian communists and how this political philosophy is not only the most idealist of ideologies, but also why it's the only one which can ride inside us--whispering out “hope” for a utopian future. HELPFUL RESOURCE GUIDES ABOUT ANARCHY: The Most Popularly Cited and Shared Introduction to Anarchy: David Graeber's “Are You an Anarchist? The Answer Might Surprise You?!” Thomas Giovanni in the Black Rose Anarchist Confederation: “Who Are the Anarchists and What Is Anarchism?” Have More Specific Questions? Go to An Anarchist FAQ from The Anarchist FAQ Editorial Collective. The Anarchist Library: A Deep Database and Archive of Out-of-Print & Hard-to-Find Articles, Books, Speeches and Interviews on Anarchy America's Legendary AK Press, Which Runs as a Worker-Cooperative Since 1990, and Publishes Important as well as Far Reaching Works of Political Theory, Journalism, Fiction and Non-Fiction Works. Freedom: The Oldest (& Once Longest Running) Anarchist Newspaper in Print (1886-2014) Get a ‘Memorial Copy' of Freedom's Last Print Issue for February/March 2014 KEY FIGURES & WORKS ON ANARCHISM: Lao Tzu (604 BC - 501 BC) → Most Important Work On Early Notions Anarchy: Tao Te Ching Chuang Tzu (370 BC - 287 BC) → Most Important Work On Early Notions Anarchy: The Book of Chuang TzuGerard Winstanley (1609-1676) → Most Important Work On Early (Western Notions of) Anarchy: The New Law of Righteousness (1649) William Godwin (1756-1836) → Most Important Work On Early (Western Notions of) Anarchy: Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (1793) Max Stirner (1806-1856) → Most Important Work On Anarchy: The Ego and His Own: The Case of the Individual Against Authority (1844) Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865) → Most Important Work On Anarchy: What Is Property? An Inquiry into the Principle of Right and of Government (1840) Mikhail Bakunin (1814-1876) → Most Important Work On Anarchy: God and the State (1882) Peter Kropotkin (1842-1921) → Most Important Works On Anarchy: The Conquest of Bread (1892) & Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution (1902) Emma Goldman (1869-1940) → Most Important Work On Anarchy: Living My Life (1931) David Graeber (1961 & Still Kicking) → Most Important Works On Anarchy: Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology (2004) & The Democracy Project: A History, A Crisis, A Movement (2013) MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Judy Garland's “Over the Rainbow” & Where to Watch the Legendary Film in All of Its Proto-Camp Glory The Legendary Theme Song for the Reading Rainbow & Where to Watch the Show in All of Its Kid-Camp Fury Anarchists and Molotov Cocktails! Why Do Black Lives Matter? Why Do Comrades Lives Matter? Because the Police Are Still Swinging Butcher-Batons and Gatling-Guns Against People's Heads: Here, Here, Here, Here, Here and Lastly Sophia Wilansky--a Hero of the Dakota Pipeline Protest--Finally Speaks Out Here. The Rectum & The Shithole of the State Jesse Herring: “Anarchy is a dream . . . Anarchy is a beautiful dream. Anarchy is the North Star of Human Decency” Ursula K. Le Guin's Most Famous Quote: “What is an anarchist? One who, choosing, accepts the responsibility of choice.” What Is Anarcho-Primitivism? A Working Primer (However, if you want a popular conception of the idea, you can watch this popular piece of “ManArchy.” If you want the documentary version, you can watch this instead. Or--fuck all--if you just want a visual sight-gag of Anarcho-Primitivism, you can watch this ode to pre-millennium dread.) The Creators of Novara Radio, Aaron Bastani and James Butler, Discuss the Ideas of Anarchism in This Podcast: “What Is Libertarian Communism?” Ursula K. Le Guin's Official Website & Her Blog MusingsUrsula K. Le Guin's Career-Defining Magnum Opus: The Dispossessed (1974) The New Yorker: Julie Phillip's “The Fantastic Ursula K. Le Guin” Structo Magazine: Euan Monaghan's Interview with Ursula K. Le Guin: “Ursula K. Le Guin on Racism, Anarchy and Hearing Her Characters Speak” (2015) The Anarchist Library: “Anarchism and Taoism” A Working Biography of Paul Goodman: an American Novelist, Playwright, Poet, Essayist, Psychotherapist and Anarchist Philosopher A History of Revolutionary Catalonia in Libcom: “1936-1939: The Spanish Civil War and Revolution” A Summary of The Dispossessed in Wikipedia Ursula K. Le Guin's Description of “The Wall” in in the opening paragraph of The Dispossessed:“There was a wall. It did not look important. It was built of uncut rocks roughly mortared. An adult could look right over it, and even a child could climb it. Where it crossed the roadway, instead of having a gate it degenerated into mere geometry, a line, an idea of boundary. But the idea was real. It was important. For seven generations there had been nothing in the world more important than that wall. Like all walls it was ambiguous, two-faced. What was inside it and what was outside it depended upon which side of it you were on.” An Online Interview with Ursula K. Le Guin, Generated from Questions by Readers of The Guardian: “Chronicles of Earthsea” The Rules of Being a Mormon in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (or Mormon Church) In Ask Gramps: “Do I Need to Confess Masturbation to My [LDS] Baptist?” The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints: “Why and What Do I Need to Confess to My Bishop?” {Which Basically Avoids Mentioning All the Sex and Dirty Parts in Case Readers Become Too Inspired} Catholic Online: “A Guide to Confession” Terry Eagleton in The Chronicle of Higher Education: “In Praise of Marx” Karl Marx's Capital: Volume 1: A Critique of Political Economy (Originally Published in 1867; This Was Translated & Reprinted in 1992) David Harvey: A Companion to Karl Marx's Capital (2010) Louis Menand in The New Yorker: “Karl Marx, Yesterday and Today” Mary Gabriel's Love and Capital: Karl and Jenny Marx and the Birth of a Revolution (2011) Rachel Holmes' Eleanor Marx: A Life (2015) Ralph Nader's Most Notable Works:   Breaking Through Power: It's Easier Than We Think (2016) The Seventeen Solutions: Bold Ideas for Our American Future (2012) “Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us”: A Novel (2011) A Fantastic Essay on Barack Obama's Patina-Presidency: “The Gap Between Rhetoric and Action: The Failed Foreign Policy of Barack Obama” Matthew Snyder's Ph.D. Dissertation: Welcome to the Suck: The Film and Media Phantasm's of The Gulf War (2008) Noam Chomsky's Most Notable Works on Politics & Anarchy: On Anarchism (2013) Who Rules the World? (2016) Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of Mass Media (1988; 2002) Requiem for the American Dream: The 10 Principles of Concentration and Power (2017) On Language: Chomsky's Classic Works Language and Responsibility and Reflections on Language in One Volume (1998) Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy (2007) Understanding Power: The Indispensible Chomsky (2002) The Anarchist Library: Workers' Solidarity Federation's “History of the Anarchist-Syndicalist Trade Union” The Anarchist Library: Rudolph Rocker on Anarchism and Anarcho-Syndicalism in “The Reproduction of Daily Life” Mikhail Bakunin, The Founder of Modern Anarchism: Mark Leier's Bakunin: The Creative Passion (2009) America's Most Famous Anarchist & Greatest Dissident; as Seen in Candace Falk's Love, Anarchy & Emma Goldman (1990), and Also in Kevin and Paul Avrich's Sasha and Emma: The Anarchist Odyssey of Alexander Berkman and Emma Goldman (2012) Michael Albert, the co-founder of Participatory Economics (Parecon): as Seen in the Graphic Novel-ization Parecon: Sean Michael Wilson and Carl Thomspon's Parecomic: Michael Albert and the Story of Participatory Economics (2013) The Big Think: “Do Scientists Have a Special Responsibility to Engage in Political Advocacy?” Michael Albert's Parecon: Life After Capitalism (2003) & Practical Utopia: Strategies for a Desirable Society (KAIROS) (2017) Andrew Anthony in The Guardian: “Ex-diplomat Carne Ross: The Case for Anarchism” IMDb: John Archer and Clara Glynn's The Accidental Anarchist (About Carne Ross' Epiphany Toward Anarchy After Becoming Disillusioned of Serving State Power) Biola Magazine: “What Are the Key Difference Between Mormonism and Christianity?” Jehovah's Witnesses (JW.org): “What Happens at a Kingdom Hall?” Reddit: “How to Make Molotov Cocktails”  (!!!) David Graeber's Most Famous Essay on Anarchism: “Are You an Anarchist? The Answer Might Surprise You?!” The Anarchist Library: “An Anarchist FAQ” Bakunin on Karl Marx's Idea of Socialism Within the State: “A dictatorship of the proletariat is still a dictatorship.” The Anarchist Library: Wayne Price's “In Defense of Bakunin and Anarchism” (Responses to Herb Gamberg's Attacks on Anarchism) The First International (AKA the International Workingmen's Association) The Socialist International David Harvey's Most Recent Work: Marx, Capital, and the Madness of Economic Reason (2017) David Graeber's Idea of Baseline Communism Is Fully Explored in His Most Important Work: Debt: The First 5,000 Years. Lord of the Rings & Gandalf's Anxiety & Terror of the Rings Corrupting Powers: “Don't Tempt Me Frodo!” Jonathan Franzen About Those Facebook “likes” in The New York Times: “Liking is for Cowards. Go for What Hurts.” Jim Dwyer's Article on Marina Abramovic's Art Project to Stare at People, Eye-to-Eye, Twenty Minutes Each for Hours and Hours; As Explored in The New York Times: “Confronting a Stranger, for Art” Buzzfeed: “Watch Six Pairs Stare Into Each Others' Eyes as a Love Experiment” The Guardian: “Literary Fiction Readers Understand Others' Emotions Better, Study Finds” Annie Murphy Paul in Time Magazine: “Reading Literature Makes Us Smarter and Nicer” Adam Gopnik Explores the Paris Commune in The New Yorker: “The Fires of Paris” The Anarchist Library: Murray Bookchin's “To Remember Spain: The Anarchist and Syndicalist Revolution of 1936” Noted Correction: Matthew incorrectly stated that members of Congress receive lifetime pension after only being in office one term (two years); In actuality, members of congress receive pension after five years (but Senators do get pensions after just one term of six years). For more information on this, go to FactCheck.org's article on the subject. Margaret Atwood's Interview on Canada's Q TV Where She Discusses Her Creation of God's Gardeners in The Year of the Flood (2009) & How Environmental Activists Must Make Friends with the Religious for a Truly Big Tent Movement to Save the Planet; Also Talks About the Split Between Christian Fundamentalists & Environmental Christians Who View Humans as Stewards of the Earth. Jessica Alexander in The Atlantic: “America's Insensitive Children?” {How Schools in Denmark Teach Students Empathy From a Young Age} Kevin Carson in Center for a Stateless Society: “Libertarian-splaining to the Poor” Learning About Worker Cooperatives: A Working Definition from the Canadian Worker Co-Op Federation Alana Semuels in The Atlantic: “Worker-Owned Cooperatives: What Are They?” National Community Land Trust Network: An FAQ About Community Land Trusts Mikhail Bakunin: “To revolt is a natural tendency of life. Even a worm turns against the foot that crushes it. In general, the vitality and relative dignity of an animal can be measured by the intensity of its instinct to revolt.” {For More Quotes by Bakunin, Hit Up His Wikiquote} The Future Is A Mixtape's First Three Episodes Exploring The Poison Pyramid: What Jesse Calls An Unconsciously Inspired Anarchist Idea-Shape: Episode 001: The Desire For Certainty: On the Terrifying Costs of Religious Tyranny Upon Humanity Episode 002: The Invisible Hand: Explores the Death-Dealing Nature of Capitalism Episode 003: Star-Fuckers: Concerns Our Toxic Relationship to the Cult of Celebrity-Worship Mikhail Bakunin's Quote on God as a Bad Boss: "A Boss in Heaven is the best excuse for a boss on earth, therefore If God did exist, he would have to be abolished.” Vivir la utopía: Juan A. Gamera's Documentary on the Anarchist Revolution in Catalonia: Living Utopia (1997) Peter Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread (1892: 2017 Edition Translated by Jonathan-David Jackson) Utopia As Seen George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia Where He Describes How Everyday Workers Were in the Saddle of the 1936 Revolution: "The Anarchists were still in virtual control of Catalonia and the revolution was still in full swing. To anyone who had been there since the beginning it probably seemed even in December or January that the revolutionary period was ending; but when one came straight from England the aspect of Barcelona was something startling and overwhelming. It was the first time that I had ever been in a town where the working class was in the saddle." Rebecca Solnit's A Paradise Built in Hell: The Extraordinary Communities That Arise in Disaster (2009) Why is it that the German Air-Bombings during WWII (The Blitz) caused suicide rates to plummet so dramatically? British scientists discover the reason as seen in The Telegraph's article: “Terror Attacks Cause Drop in Suicide Rates as They Invoke Blitz Spirit” PBS NewsHour: “Sebastian Junger's Tribe Examines Loyalty, Belonging and the Quest for Meaning” How Spending $25 on Others (Instead of Keeping It for Yourself) Creates More Happiness; as Seen in The New Republic Interview with Scientists: “Want to Be Happy? Stop Being Cheap!” Time Magazine: “Do We Need $75,000 a Year to Be Happy?” The US Military-Industrial-Complex: $700 Billion on Murder and Machinery: Alex Emmons in The Intercept: “The Senate's Military Spending Increase Alone Is Enough to Make Public College Free” Armistead Maupin: “There is your biological family and then your logical family.” As Seen in His Autobiography, Logical Family: A Memoir Is Kamala Harris America's Future President or Just Another Transactional Politician Buried in Corporate Money? Universal Basic Income (UBI) or Universal Basic Dividend (UBD)? Matthew Bruenig's Essay-Report: “How Norway's State Manages Its Ownership Of Companies” (From the People's Policy Project) Michael Zannettis in The People's Policy Project: “Why Americans Are Going to Love Single Payer” Alan Moore's Most Important Works, Both Past and Present: Watchman (Released in 1986-87; Reprinted 2014) V for Vendetta (Released in 1989; Reprinted in 2008 Jerusalem: A Novel (Hardback Release: 2016 & It's 1280 Pages!) From Hell (2004) When V for Vendetta was published it was seen as an SF allegory for Margaret Thatcher's World Gone Mad; As Seen in George Monbiot's Excellent Essay in The Guardian: “Neoliberalism -- the Ideology at the Root of All Our Problems” But There's A World We Can Have from the Anarchist Principles of Mutual Aid, Solidarity and Community Wealth: Marcin Jakubowski's Open Source Ecology Project & It's Philosophy The Making of “America's Most Radical City” as Explored with the Founding of Cooperation Jackson; Jackson's History of This Struggle Is Also Explored in Ajamu Nangwaya & Kali Akuno's Book  Jackson Rising (2017) Feel Free to Contact Jesse & Matt on the Following Spaces & Places: Email Us: thefutureisamixtape@gmail.com Find Us Via Our Website . . . The Future Is A Mixtape Or Lollygagging on Social Networks: Facebook Twitter Instagram

Welcome to the Gold Soundz Podcast. A music podcast hosted by Chris Gallagher and Mark Edwards.In this episode we discuss the much maligned Pavement album Terror Twilight, discussing track listings, key songs and our overall thoughts.Our Song lyric discussion is HELICOPTER by Deerhunter as we explain what it means to us and why its so important.Follow us on Twitter: @GoldSoundzCast

Welcome to the Gold Soundz Podcast. A music podcast hosted by Chris Gallagher and Mark Edwards.In this episode we discuss the much maligned Pavement album Terror Twilight, discussing track listings, key songs and our overall thoughts.Our Song lyric discussion is HELICOPTER by Deerhunter as we explain what it means to us and why its so important.Follow us on Twitter: @GoldSoundzCast

It's Bonus Song Thursday! And Bill regales everyone with a story of listening to Pavement via YouTube and first connecting with this song from their album Terror Twilight (1999, Matador). Additionally, we pulled an unaired excerpt from the episode on Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain in which our guest, blogger Jim Appio (cooldadmusic.com), talks with Bill and Brian about success and what means for musicians and their art.