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Catherine Castaldo, Christian Leuthner and Asélle Ibraimova  break down DORA, the Digital Operational Resilience Act, which is new legislation that aims to enhance the cybersecurity and resilience of the financial sector in the European Union. DORA sets out common standards and requirements for these entities so they can identify, prevent, mitigate and respond to cyber threats and incidents as well as ensure business continuity and operational resilience. The team discusses the implications of DORA and offers insights on applicability, obligations and potential liability for noncompliance. This episode was recorded on 17 January 2025. ----more---- Transcript:  Intro: Hello, and welcome to Tech Law Talks, a podcast brought to you by Reed Smith's Emerging Technologies Group. In each episode of this podcast, we will discuss cutting-edge issues on technology, data, and the law. We will provide practical observations on a wide variety of technology and data topics to give you quick and actionable tips to address the issues you are dealing with every day.  Catherine: Hi, everyone. I'm Catherine Castaldo, a partner in the New York office of Reed Smith, and I'm in the EmTech Group. And I'm here today with my colleagues, Christian and Asélle, who I'll introduce themselves. And we're going to talk to you about DORA. Go ahead, Christian. Christian: Hi, I'm Christian Leuthner. I'm a Reed Smith partner in the Frankfurt office, focusing on IT and data protection law.  Asélle: And I'm Asélle Ibraimova. I am a council based in London. And I'm also part of the EmTech group, focusing on tech, data, and cybersecurity.  Catherine: Great. Thanks, Asélle and Christian. Today, when we're recording this, January 17th, 2025, is the effective date of this new regulation, commonly referred to as DORA. For those less familiar, would you tell us what DORA stands for and who is subject to it? Christian: Yeah, sure. So DORA stands for the Digital Operational Resilience Act, which is a new regulation that aims to enhance the cybersecurity and resilience of the financial sector in the European Union. It applies to a wide range of financial entities, such as banks, insurance companies, investment firms, payment service providers, crypto asset service providers, and even to critical third-party providers that offer services to the financial sector. DORA sets out common standards and requirements for these entities to identify, prevent, mitigate, and respond to cyber threats and incidents as well, as to ensure business continuity and operational resilience.  Catherine: Oh, that's comprehensive. Is there any entity who needs to be more concerned about it than others, or is it equally applicable to all of the ones you listed?  Asélle: I can jump in here. So DORA is a piece of legislation that wants to respect proportionality and allow organizations to deal with DORA requirements that will be proportionate to their size, to the nature of the cybersecurity risks. So, for example, micro-enterprises or certain financial entities that have only a small number of members will have a simplified ICT risk management framework under DORA. I also wanted to mention that DORA applies to financial entities that are outside of the EU, but provide services in the EU so they will be caught. And maybe just to also add in terms of the risks. It's not only the size of the financial entities that matter in terms of how they comply with the requirements of DORA, but also the cybersecurity risk. So let's say an ICT third-party service provider, the risk of that entity will depend on the nature of that service, on the complexity, on whether that service supports critical or important function of the financial entity, generally dependence on ICT service provider and ultimately on its potential to disrupt the services of that financial entity.  Catherine: So some of our friends might just be learning about this by listening to the podcast. So what does ICT stand for, Asélle?  Asélle: It is informational communication technology. So in other words, it's anything that a financial entity receives as a service or a product digitally. It also covers ICT services provided by a financial entity. So, for example, if a financial entity offers a platform for fund or investment management or a piece of software or its custodian services are provided digitally, those services will also be considered an ICT service. And those financial entities will need to cover their customer-facing contracts as well and make sure DORA requirements are covered in the contracts.  Catherine: Thank you for that. What are some of the risks for noncompliance? Christian: The risks for noncompliance with DORA are significant and could entail both financial and reputational consequences. First of all, DORA empowers the authorities to impose administrative sanctions and corrective measures on entities that breach its provisions. Which could range from warnings and reprimands to fines and penalties to withdrawals of authorization and licenses, which could have significant impact on the business of all the entities. The level of sanctions and measures will depend on the nature, gravity and duration of the breach, as well as on the entity's cooperation and remediation efforts. So better be positive to help the authority in case they identify the breach. Second, non-compliance with DORA could also expose entities to legal actions and claims from the customers, investors, or other parties that might suffer losses or damages as a result of cyber incident or disruption of service. And third, non-compliance with DORA could also damage the entity's reputation and trustworthiness in the market and affect its competitive advantage and customer loyalty. Therefore, entities should take DORA seriously and ensure that they comply with its requirements and expectations.  Catherine: If I haven't been able to start considering DORA, and I think it might be applicable to me, where should I start?  Asélle: It's actually a very interesting question. So from our experience. We see large financial entities such as banks, etc. Look at this comprehensively. Comprehensively, obviously, all financial entities had quite a long time to prepare, but large organizations seem to look at it more comprehensively and have done the proper assessment of whether or not their services are caught. But we are still getting quite a few questions in terms of whether or not DORA applies to a certain financial entity type. So I think there are quite a few organizations out there who are still trying to determine that. But once that's clear although DORA itself is quite a long kind of piece of legislation, in actual fact, it is further clarified in various regulatory technical standards and implementing technical standards, and they clarify all of the cybersecurity requirements that actually appear quite generic in DORA itself. So those RTS and ITS are quite lengthy documents and are all together around 1,000 pages. So that's where kind of the devil is in the detail there and organizations will find it may appear quite overwhelming. So I would start by assessing whether DORA applies, which services, which entities, which geographies. Once that's determined, it's important to identify whether financial entities' own services may be deemed ICT services, as I just explained earlier. The next step in my mind would be to check whether the services that are caught also support critical or important functions, and also when kind of making registries of third party ICT service providers, also making sure, kind of identifying those separately. And the reason is quite a few of the requirements, additional requirements applied to critical and important functions. For example, the incident reporting obligations and requirements in terms of contractual agreements. And then I would look at updating contracts, first of all, with important ICT service providers, then also checking if customer-facing contracts need to be updated if the financial entity is providing ICT services itself. And also not forgetting the intra-group ICT agreements where, for example, a parent company is providing data storage or word processing services to its affiliates in Europe. So they should be covered as well.  Catherine: If we were a smaller company or a company that interacts in the financial services sector, can we think of an example that might be helpful for people listening on how I could start? Maybe what's the example of a smaller or middle-sized company that would be subject to this? And then who would they be interacting with on the ICT side?  Asélle: Maybe an example of that could be an investment fund or a pensions provider. I think most of this compliance effort when it comes to DORA will be driven by in-house cybersecurity teams. So they will be updating their risk management and risk frameworks. But any updates to policies, whenever they have to be looked at, I think will need to be reviewed by legal and incident reporting policies, contract management policies, I don't think they depend on size. If there are ICT service providers supporting critical or important functions, additional requirements will apply regardless of whether you're a small or a large organization. It's just the measures will depend on what level of risk, say, certain ICT service provider presents. So if this internal cybersecurity team has kind of put, you know, all the risk, all the IST assets in buckets and all the third-party IST services in various buckets based on criticality, then that would make the job of legal and generally compliance much easier. However, what we're seeing right now is that all of that work is happening all at the same time in parallel as people are rushing to get compliance. So that will mean that there may be gaps and inconsistencies and I'm sure they can be patched later.  Catherine: Thank you for that. So just another follow-up question, maybe Christian can respond, would my data center contract be subject to DORA regulations if I was a financial services entity? Christian: It's worth to look into that and see if it's an ICT provider that you use to provide your services. So I'm pretty sure you need to look into that and see if you can implement at least the contractual requirements that arise from DORA.  Asélle: I would just add to support Christian's response and say that the definition of ICT services is quite broad and covers digital and data services provided through ICT systems. So, I mean, as you can see, it's just so generic and I'm pretty sure it would cover data centers, but I guess not directly because say a financial entity was receiving a service of a cloud service provider, then data centers are probably a second or third kind of level subcontractor. And unfortunately, or fortunately, DORA has very detailed requirements in terms of subcontracting and the obligations don't stop at a certain level. Therefore, data centers are likely to be caught somehow and will be receiving DORA addenda to their contracts.  Catherine: Thank you for that clarification. I was, like probably many people have tried to digest this regulation, a little confused on how broad the coverage for information and communication technology went. But that's very helpful then, I'm sure. Any final thoughts?  Asélle: We are helping a few organizations and learning a lot as we work with them. And the legislation is pretty complex and requires in-house teams to work together as well. And Christian and I would be very happy to assist and navigate this complex framework. Christian: And if you haven't started yet, of course, it's a huge regulation. There's so many requirements to tackle, but there's one day you have to start. So then start today, look into it, and implement the requirements that arise from DORA.  Catherine: Well, thank you so much, Christian and Asélle, and everybody, as we said before, we're talking about DORA today, because today, January 17th, is the day that it becomes effective. So if, like Christian said, you haven't started, today's a good day to start. And I'm sure you can reach out to one of my colleagues to get some assistance. Thanks for joining. Christian: Thanks for having us, Catherine.  Asélle: It was a pleasure. Thank you.  Outro: Tech Law Talks is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. For more information about Reed Smith's emerging technologies practice, please email techlawtalks@reedsmith.com. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.  All rights reserved.  Transcript is auto-generated.

Right-wing politicians and pundits scream, but most students, faculty and staff believe that college and university diversity, equity and inclusion programs create an environment that's welcoming for everyone. Assistant vice president Renee Wells of Queens University of Charlotte in North Carolina sees how DEI improves all of campus life. (David Hunt reports) And in NewsWrap: U.K.'s ban on puberty blockers for pediatric gender-affirming healthcare passes legal muster according to a High Court judge, London Trans+ Pride breaks records with its sixth annual procession, a Nepali law student and human rights activist can change her legal gender to “female” without having to undergo gender-affirming surgery, protections for LGBTQ students in the U.S. are affirmed one day and stripped the next, Nebraska's Supreme Court allows the ban on trans patients under the age of 19 from getting gender-affirming healthcare, transgender Christian IT specialist Ellenor Zinski is suing Jerry Falwell's infamous Liberty University for discrimination, and more international LGBTQ news reported this week by Joe Boehnlein and Melanie Keller (produced by Brian DeShazor).  All this on the August 5, 2024 edition of This Way Out! Join our family of listener-donors today at http://thiswayout.org/donate/

Continuing our new series on artificial intelligence, Christian Simonds and Henry Birkbeck discuss what the use of AI in film and television. AI features in every stage of production – from pre-production, through production, to post-production – and reliance on AI will continue to increase as it evolves. The discussion centers around the legalities that management in the industry should be aware of, as well as the recurring questions and issues raised by clients in both the UK and U.S. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Hello, and welcome to Tech Law Talks, a podcast brought to you by Reed Smith's Emerging Technologies group. In each episode of this podcast, we will discuss cutting edge issues on technology, data, and the law. We will provide practical observations on a wide variety of technology and data topics to give you quick and actionable tips to address the issues you are dealing with every day. Henry: Welcome to our new series on AI. Over the coming months, we will explore the key challenges and opportunities within the rapidly evolving AI landscape. Today, we will focus on AI in film and TV. My name is Henry Birkbeck. I'm a senior associate in the London office at Reed Smith, and I'm speaking today with Christian Simonds, who is a partner in the New York office. Christian and I have previously written an article on AI in the film and TV space, and there's probably quite a lot to mention and not a huge amount of time to cover it. But I guess I'll start maybe Christian just by asking, you know, have you seen recurring themes coming up with clients asking about AI in the film and TV space so far? Christian: Yeah, I think in terms of, you know, the film and TV industry as a whole, it's kind of always been kind of at the forefront of technology, particularly in terms of how to properly utilize it. Just not only from a budgetary perspective, but also from a creative perspective, right? And obviously, you know, AI has been such a hot topic, particularly with respect to the guilds during the strikes of 2023. So there is a lot to kind of unpack in terms of how it's being integrated into film and TV production. You know, I think the general consensus is that about two thirds of every budget for a AV project in the kind of the film and TV space is kind of made up of labor. Right. And particularly now in relation to kind of the economy and where it is, there's been a heightened scrutiny of, of each line item in a, in a particular budget. And, and, and as a result, it's kind of driven the need or reliance on AI as a potential solution to mitigating certain costs, labor costs. And again, I know it's not ideal from an individual employment perspective, but from an overall budget perspective, it is something that I see the studios and production companies on the independent level embracing as it relates to trying to drive down costs of a particular budget it kind of, AI kind of plays into each stage of production on, it plays into development, pre-production, production, and post. And when you're navigating that as it relates to the legalities of how it's used, yeah, there are certain issues that come into play vis-a-vis what the guilds have agreed to kind of in their most recent ratification at the end of the strikes. And how to ensure that you're adhering to what those requirements are, at least aware of what they are. In addition to that, just from a copyright perspective and other considerations in terms of how AI is used in that kind of development stage. So there's kind of a lot to unpack within kind of the lifespan of a production as it relates to AI and how it's been used. And the reality is it's going to be used and it's going to continue to evolve and be, be relied on to a greater degree, particularly with respect to certain elements of the production process on the, on, on the VFX side in particular, obviously certainly in, in, in the development stage and, and, and the editing stage. And there's, there's certain things that, that it really has a, a, a tremendous value from a timing perspective, a cut down and production timing and, and, and, and other elements that I think will, will benefit the production as a whole. But yeah in terms of legalities yeah there's a lot to kind of unpack there I'm happy to touch on each of those in the time that we have. Henry: Well I think the first one which you did touch on obviously is that the guild strikes of 2023 and clients and and those those people in the industry in the US were probably a lot closer to it but for the benefit of those of us that weren't in the US do you do you want to give a very quick recap of kind of where where they ended up? Christian: Absolutely. Yeah. In terms of the Screen Actors Guild, SAG, there are really four main components to how they regulate artificial intelligence. So you've got your employment-based digital replica, which is basically a replication of a performer's employment or participation in the production. So it's literally taking the performer himself and portraying him in a scene that they didn't actually shoot or a performance that they didn't actually shoot. A good example is if you see in a movie someone talking to themselves. That second digital replication is employment-based digital replica. Right. What does that mean in terms of what you need to do vis-a-vis SAG? It means you need to get mandatory consent from the performers when you're going to do that. So it needs to be disclosed at the outset, either from the performer himself or if the performer is no longer around, you need to get consent from an authorized representative from his estate or the union itself. The contracts need to be reasonably specific as to the description of how it's going to be used. And if you're going to use it outside of the project, i.e. kind of that beyond a kind of one picture license, you're going to need additional consent to do that. And, you know, they need to be, the performers will need to be compensated, you know, for that digital creation as though it was themselves, right? So you need to take into consideration that residuals obviously Obviously, we'll need to be paid on whatever amounts are paid in connection with that. And then you've got independently created digital replica, which is basically using digital replicas created kind of using materials that the performer has provided in a scene that they didn't actually shoot. Right. So you're not actually using a previous performance in the movie itself, but you're like literally digitally replicating the performer in a scene that he didn't otherwise participate in. So again, you need to consent from the performer when you do that. You need to be reasonably specific in terms of how you're describing that use in the contract. Again, obviously, he's entitled to compensation for that use. And obviously, that compensation is entitled to payment of fringes. Henry: Has this kind of been met with or met positively, I guess, in the industry since? Because I know that in 2023, you know, there was a big kind of reputational issue around AI and there was a lot of speculation about whether these, you know, protecting the performer's rights, was this being overblown a little bit? Or do you think, you know, are people comfortable with where they landed? Christian: I think with respect to those two elements, I think yes, right? I think that the general consensus is they do adequately protect the actors when you're exploring those types of digital replica usages. I think the real wildcard here or the area of real concern is around generative AI, right? So basically, taking data, materials, prior performances, facial expressions, their image likeness, and actually creating new content from that material from an actor. I think that's really where we start to enter into an area where people aren't necessarily comfortable, particularly on the talent side. And again, the guild is clear that if you're going to do that, you need to get consent from the actor, right? So if you're going to use his image or likeness or prior performances to kind of feed a gen AI tool to create a new piece of content from those materials, you're going to need consent from that actor. You got to notify the union when you're going to do such a thing, you know, and the compensation around that usage is usually specifically negotiated with the talent themselves. And you basically need to continue to keep that talent informed how those materials are being used vis-a-vis the gen AI. So that really is a touchy area. I mean, I think a lot of people are familiar with what happened with Scarlett Johansson when she basically said that her voice was being utilized for purposes of chat GPT. Recently, they claimed that they had used an actress's voice that they had brought in that sounds similar to hers, but it wasn't her voice. I mean, so it just shows you the heightened sensitivity on the talent side in terms of of how their, you know, image like this voice is being used within the gen AI space. So yeah, there is, there's a lot of sensitivities around that usage. Henry: Okay. So it's interesting that there's an ongoing obligation as well, which I guess makes sense, but you know, it's a burden, I guess, on the production company. And the other question I had relating to guilds was, was the writers guild. And I think the other thing that seemed to make the headlines internationally was about how particularly large language models and generative AI tools can be used for screenwriting and at what point. There's always a question with AI and copyright and ownership. And I was wondering if you could speak a little bit on where they landed in terms of who, if anyone, can own a script that has been written by an AI tool. Christian: You know, within the US, the copyright law is clear in the sense of, you know, anything that's gen AI created is not copyrightable, right? And if you are utilizing elements of materials that were gen AI created in your copyrightable material, you have to disclose what those materials are, and those materials will not be protected within the overall piece of IP, right? So you could copyright the script, but if certain elements of it were pulled from gen AI sources, those elements of your script will not be protectable. So the copyright law is fairly clear on that. In terms of the WGA and how they're trying to protect their writers from being replaced by AI, it's saying, hey, obviously with respect to signatory companies, you have to be clear that... gen AI produced material will not be considered kind of literary material under the WGA, right? So what does that mean? So if you can't give an AI generated screenplay to a writer and say, hey, go rewrite this, and you potentially won't be entitled to separate rights because you're writing something that's based on underlying materials, WGA says absolutely not. We're basically going to exclude that gen AI-created screenplay or treatment or Bible from the kind of separated rights discussion and say, Hey, that writer that contributes those first writing services, you know, for purposes of taking that gen AI material and, you know, either polishing or rewriting it or, or, or developing further into the screenplay, that will be considered the first step of the writing process. And that writer will be the writer that will be entitled to the writing credits around the material moving forward. So yeah it's almost like it's fine for studios to to provide gen AI materials for purposes of writers developing a screenplay or or assisting them with their writing services and again if they're going to do that they need to fully disclose that to the writer when they're doing it but those materials will basically be excluded from kind of the chain right when the WGA is considering what makes up the overall literary material that's going to be considered for purposes of writing credits residuals before etc. And I think again you know it's it's a good place to land for writers it doesn't necessarily solve the AI issue as a whole because it's still going to be utilized for purposes of coming up with ideas potentially on the studio side because it's it's something that they can quickly do and and also it has added benefits in terms of saying, hey. It can analyze a screenplay or it can analyze an idea and say, hey, here's the likelihood of the success of this idea or screenplay based on, you know, historics of screenplays like it in the past. Or, hey, I think the second chapter of this story should be changed this way because it's going to be better received because of X, Y, or Z, right? I think that tool will be beneficial. So it's not totally carving out the usage of AI as it relates to the development of a literary material. And I think it could be utilized in a positive way, which is great. I just don't think it will ever be able to fully remove physical writers from the process. I think the WGA did a sufficient job ensuring that. Henry: Yeah. It's interesting because obviously we're talking mostly about the US here, but I think most other markets in the film and TV industry were watching very closely what happened in 2023. And certainly in the UK, there's kind of been largely a following suit. You know, we haven't had the same kind of high profile developments, but PACT, which is the Producers Alliance in the UK, has since issued guidance on AI and the use of AI in film and TV productions. And, you know, they don't. They kind of stop short of taking a hard stance on anything, but they do talk about being very mindful and aware of the protection of the rights of all the various people that might be involved and how to integrate AI into production. So I think, I think the US position is, is really the kind of the market leader for this. And, you know, there's, there's a slight nuance in the copyright law is slightly different in the US and the UK and, you know, how AI relates to that. And, and lots of other jurisdictions, of course, there's implications there. But I think so far, the UK market seems to be broadly following what's happening in the states. Christian: It's interesting, too, because the states here are starting to take a position on AI. And there's, at least in New York, there's a few bills that are being considered currently. There's three bills, one of which I think probably has a likelihood of getting passed, which deals with contracts around the creation of digital replicas. And it kind of tracks what SAG has already said. But basically, any contract between an individual and an entity or individual for performance of personal or professional services as it relates to a new performance by digital replication basically is contrary to public policy and will be deemed null and void unless it satisfies three conditions, one of which is the reasonably specific description of the intended use of the digital replica. But it adds like an interesting element, which is that the person who is on the other side, whose performance is potentially being digitally replicated, needs to have been represented by council or a member of a guild, which is interesting, right? So it kind of adds a little, an extra level of protection. And again, this is going to be state specific. So it'll be interesting how this kind of impacts other states or what other states are potentially considering. And then there's two other bills that are currently in place. One is on the advertising side, you know, in connection with disclosing synthetic media as it relates to advertising. But the other one that's interesting, just from a film financing perspective, is that they're taking a position that, you know, productions that spend money on AI digital replication or AI usage might not qualify for the New York tax rebate, which is very interesting. Henry: Oh, really? Wow. Christian: They think that that one won't necessarily pass. Certainly the first one will because it's kind of already in line with what SAG has said. But yeah, that second one, I think, will probably get shelved. But just an interesting one to consider. Henry: Yeah, and it's really kind of, I guess, both of them showing that there is this protection element being added in and trying to... It's almost like holding these AI devices slightly at a distance to stop them kind of... Becoming a source of, I don't want to say evil in the industry, but kind of going too far overstepping the mark. Christian: Absolutely. And it's interesting too, because it's almost like, obviously you've got your defined protections within SAG and copyright law, and now obviously what's being considered by legislation. But the reality is a lot of this is being driven just by public policy in terms of the public's rejection of AI to a degree, right? I think people are generally like scared of it right so the knee-jerk reaction is to say no let's continue to promote you know the employment of real people right? Henry: Yeah. Christian: I think you know and and I think this also plays into how AI is used you know in films and again you know i think it's going to evolve to a point where it'll be tough to distinguish between AI and real right but you know, a good example being Irishman or some other films that have used significant AI to basically de-age people, you know, and people see it and like, that looks ridiculous, right? Like, I think there's a general knee-jerk reaction to doing it, right? And whether that changes over time based on how the AI technology evolves. Particularly from a visual perspective is TBD. But but yeah I think a lot of it is driven by public perception of AI right. Henry: Yeah yeah and I think you know it is interesting what you were saying before and we've seen this in the UK as well is that initially it was like okay well how is this gonna affect producers and you know and there's kind of efficiencies there but actually we're seeing studios and commissioners really embrace it and and look for ways to cut the cost of production as well and and you know i think it's It's just going to, like you say, it's going to touch basically every aspect of film and TV production and streamline things. Christian: Yeah, I think there are, I mean, I think there are real positives in terms of how it can be integrated into the production process. I know we touched on a few, but, you know, also like dubbing, right, localization of content and, you know, basically extending the reach of a piece of AV IP, right? So if you can do it in a way where it looks natural, because I know there's always kind of been a visceral reaction to seeing something that is dubbed really poorly, but if it can evolve to a point where it's almost seamless, it may have a better impact in terms of the breach of content. Again, I think there are different schools there in terms of whether investing in that makes sense in certain places or if it's just easier just to dub it and release it and how much of an impact it's actually having. But I do think in certain jurisdictions or certain areas, a seamless localization could have value to the reach of a particular piece of AV IP. Henry: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it could kind of move things geographically as well. I know, in the UK, we have this a lot where, you know, the cost of post production is a lot cheaper in countries close to the UK. And so as a result of that, you quite often see productions that will be, you know, 80% of it will be of the money will be spent in the UK. And actually, the final 20%, which, you know, often doesn't qualify for the tax credit over here anyway, gets outsourced to somewhere in Europe, where it is much cheaper to have the post production be carried out remotely, or even to Canada, or somewhere where there's a kind of better incentive package. And actually, if you could streamline that whole process, and you've got, you know, a company that or an AI tool that can, you know, do all the grading and all this kind of stuff that was cutting and these previously quite labor intensive activities, then there's no reason why you couldn't bring a lot of that production cost back on shore and reduce it. So it may kind of move where people are located in the market as well. Christian: Yeah, I think, you know, and it's not necessarily, you know, solely issue for, you know, scripted projects. You know, I think also in the US, it's even kind of led into the doc space, right? So I know, you know, the APA in the US, which is the Archival Producers Alliance, which basically is a document variance, you know, basically said as well, like, hey, just be careful how you use AI in this space, even though it's not, you know, governed by a auild necessarily, right? Like still, or how it's used in the non-scripted space, you know, it doesn't really have guild coverage depending on what it is. They're at least saying, hey, like, just be careful how you use it because, you know, what we're doing, particularly in terms of how we're depicting history or events, historical events or things that have happened, you know, AI, you don't want to, you don't want to change it to a point where you're basically changing the perception of history, right? Or generating things that are so AI oblivious to the realities of what actually happened, right? Like you might potentially, it might have a negative effect. And it's funny, it's more of like an ethical line that documentarians are trying just to be mindful of as it's kind of integrated into that space as well. Because look, when you don't have kind of primary source material to utilize for purposes of trying to depict something in a documentary, Yeah, it may be easy to duplicate it using AI, right? Generated by AI. But at the same time, that may have implications that you might not have thought about, which is, you know, how is this telling a story that might not actually be accurate to the underlying facts? Henry: I mean, I think that's a pretty good kind of starting point. Obviously, these are issues and discussion points that have a lot of depth to them and have been discussed a lot in the industry internationally already. And we're kind of in a point now where it's like, let's wait and see how this stuff shakes out in practice. And certainly, as we've discussed, the US has kind in a lot of areas that there is now a bit of a direction. So it'll be interesting to see how things unfold. And I know for the most part in the UK, the production industry sort of follows what's happening in the states. And in respect of international productions, they have to kind of be aligned to a degree. So it will be really interesting to see how this develops in the coming months and years. Christian: Yeah, for sure. And like Luke said in the beginning, there is no question that it is a part of the filmmaking process and will continue to be so at an ever-increasing degree. So it's kind of unavoidable. And I truly think it could be utilized in a way that's beneficial to filmmaking, both from a budgetary perspective, but also like, hey, if you can reallocate a bunch of the spend from what otherwise was labor-intensive, time-consuming elements of production, re-allocate that to talent or other things, elements of the process that can compensate certain individuals in a way that they weren't before. I think that can be beneficial as well. And I think, you know, there will be a point where, you know, it'll really help independent filmmaking in particular, right? Because that always is, budgetary constraints are always paramount in that space. And if you can do things that otherwise cost a ton of money previously for cents on the dollar using AI, moving forward to the extent it kind of evolves quality wise, I think you'll see an uptick in really quality, you know, independent filmmaking.. Again, there's never going to be a universe, in my opinion, that totally circumvents the utilization of real people, but AI can certainly be utilized in a beneficial way to help the process. Henry: Great. Thanks very much, Christian. And thanks everyone for listening. Tune in for the next episode on our series on AI. Outro: Tech Law Talks is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. For more information about Reed Smith's Emerging Technologies practice, please email techlawtalks@reedsmith.com. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts. Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. All rights reserved. Transcript is auto-generated.

Happy Independence Day from The Gospel Jubilee   This week on The Gospel Jubilee Chip and Denny will be playing songs in commemoration of Independence Day. Join us as we celebrate our faith and freedoms.   Here are all of the ways you can listen to the Gospel Jubilee On your Echo device say, Alexa, play the Gospel Jubilee on Apple podcast. For a direct download go to: https://api.spreaker.com/v2/episodes/60600657/download.mp3   Ocean Waves Radio ... every Wednesday at 5:00 PM Eastern time., www.OceanWavesRadio.com   Thursday afternoons at 4:00 PM and Sunday mornings at 9:30 AM  EST on Southern Branch Bluegrass Radio, www.sbbradio.org   Saturday evenings at 7:00 and Wednesday afternoons at 4:00 CST on Radio For Life, www.RadioForLife.org   Legend Oldies Radio. Our broadcast will be aired every Sunday morning at 9:00 AM CDT. https://www.legendoldies.com   Playlist:   Artists |Song Title | Album   01. Legacy Five - The Star Spangled Banner - "Faith & Freedom"   02. Daily & Vincent - America, we love You - "Patriots & Poets"   03. Jimmy Fortune - In God we trust - "God & Country"   04. The Hoppers - We are America - "Great Day"   05. The Blackwood Brothers - Righteousness exalts a nation - "Righteousness Exalts A Nation - Single"   06. The Hyssongs - We need God in America again - "Running The Race"   07. The Northmen - You're a grand ole flag - "It's A Holiday"   08. The Booth Brothers - Country roads - "Country Road Volume 1"   09. Carolina - I'd like to teach the world to sing - "Turn A Legacy Of American Songs"   10. The Singing Contractors - God bless America - "Simply Put"   11. The Browns - Heart of the heartland - "Oh, My Iowa! Songs & Stories Of The Heartland Original cast Recording 2021 Various Artists"   12. Avenue Trio - I will follow Christ - "Here We Are Deluxe Edition"   13. The Inspirations - I'm not ashamed - "Live 45 Years Of Favorites"   14. endless Highway - America, bless God - "Parables"   15. The Carr Family - I choose to be a Christian - "It's A Wonderful Life"   16. Freedom Quartet - I am a Christian - "I Am A Christian - Single"   17. Chosen Road - That's what heroes do - "It Never Gets Old"   18. Brian Free & Assurance - I still believe in America - "30th Anniversary (Remastered)"   19. Charlie Monk - Our America - "Our America - Single"   20. Gary Nicholson & Ruthie Foster - God help America - "God Help America - Single"   21. The Inspirations - God's Word will stand - "God's Word Will Stand"   22. Legacy Five God is still in America - "A Wonderful Life"   23. Squire Parsons - America, keep holding to God's hand - "The Soldier's song"   24. Vestal Goodman & The Homecoming Friends - God bless America - "God Bless The USA"   Outro – The Washington Post - Stars & Stripes Concert Gold  

Christian Castile, a trial attorney at Reed Smith, is joined by Reed Smith's Professional Development and Continuing Legal Education Manager, Joe Maguire, and Emily Chang, a former Reed Smith summer associate, to explore the evolution of LGBTQ+ inclusive language. This episode delves into the history and reclamation of the term "queer," examining its significance and the broader impacts of language on the LGBTQ+ community. Joe and Emily share their personal stories and insights, discussing how their experiences have shaped their understanding and use of LGBTQ+ terminology. They also touch on the intersectionality of language across different marginalized groups and the importance of person-centered language. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on the power of words and the journey toward inclusivity. This episode includes a frank discussion of words used to describe the LGBTQ+ community, some of which could be triggering to some listeners. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith Podcast, Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions, and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.  Christian: Hello, and welcome to this month's episode of Reed Smith's podcast, Inclusivity Included. My name is Christian Castile, and I am the guest host of this month's episode. I am here joined today by Joe Maguire and Emily Chang, and we are going to be discussing the evolution of LGBTQ+ inclusive language, focusing on the term queer as a prime and driving example, but looking sort of across the board, a different language that we use. I'll get into a little bit of the history of that term and some other terms, but as we are getting started here I'm gonna toss it over to Emily and Joe to give us a little bit of introduction. So Emily, we'll go ahead and have you start. Can you just share a little bit about your background and what it is that inspired you to pursue a career in the legal industry?  Emily: Yeah, I'm Emily. I majored in undergrad in hospitality and graduated in 2020. So my job on cruise ships was no longer an option. And I took a semester off and then decided I wanted to go to law school. I had taken a hospitality law class and I had loved it. It was definitely the right move. And I am studying for the bar and joining the firm in Dallas soon.  Christian: That is so exciting. Are you doing anything interesting in between your law school graduation and starting at the firm?  Emily: I'm going to clerk for a bankruptcy judge in Dallas for a year.  Christian: That's incredible. Congratulations.  Emily: Thank you.  Christian: Joe, I'll pass it over to you. Sort of the same question, if you could just share a little bit about your background and how you came to get involved with Reed Smith and the legal industry more broadly.  Joe: Sure. So I was an English and philosophy major in undergrad, which was all incredibly useful if I wanted to go into publishing, which I did not. So I ended up going to law school, as many people do, as sort of a default. And I clerked for a couple of years, and then I practiced for a couple of years. And it was clear that it was just not something that I was... I love the law, and I love the learning, I love the words, but the actual practice just just didn't suit. And so I went a different path and worked in law schools and then eventually came to work at the firm. And actually, this week is my 25th anniversary at the firm on the 14th.  Christian: Congratulations. What a milestone.  Joe: Thank you. Yes, it's a milestone I don't think anyone ever really expects to hit. It sort of comes as a surprise. So yeah, and it's interesting because my law firm experience was very different from when I was a practitioner to when I was in a role that allowed me to work with lawyers was a different dynamic and one that suited me quite well.  Christian: Well, I know I speak for many of us here at the firm to say that we're happy to have you in the role that you're in. You do some great work for us, and I know I enjoy working with you. So I'm so pleased to be sitting here with you both today for this podcast episode. And I appreciate the insights that the different perspectives that you just both shared are going to provide for the discussion that we're having. So just really quickly, I thought for anybody who is maybe less familiar with sort of the history of what we're talking about today, we are looking at the word queer as a sort of focal point for the evolution of LGBTQ+ inclusive language. And the reason that we're focusing on that word is because historically queer has seen a lot of change, a lot of development over the way that it's been used, the way it's been perceived in this particular community, most notably sort of starting out as a derogatory term, and then over time being reclaimed as different generations of the the LGBTQ community have really focused on trying to recapture some of that language. So sort of with that in mind, this is a question for both of you again, as well. And we'll go, we'll take this in reverse order. So Joe, if you could open us up here, is there anything that you are comfortable sharing about your LGBTQ experiences, your experience as a member of the LGBTQ+ community? And specifically, what is the language that you use with respect back to your own identity?  Joe: So I was aware by the time I started school as a kid that I was different. And I had some awareness of what that was about. And I, as an elementary schooler, was mildly fluid from a gender perspective. And so consequently, I was effeminate enough to get the attention of my classmates. And that made me a target. There were other factors in my identity that sort of contributed to that sense of otherness that had nothing to do with sexuality or gender. Going through those experiences, I had a fair amount of confusion about exactly what was going on. And all that seemed to clarify once puberty hit. And it became very clear to me that my identity was male and gay. And that is how I identify now. And that's probably been since about sixth grade.  Emily: Yeah. And I use she/her pronouns. And I think came out to myself probably in middle school as a product of, I think I grew up in Texas and I think that different sexualities are not presented as an option to you until you learn about them yourself. And I grew up in a time when the internet was very available. And I think that was very useful and educational for me as a young person. And then I came out as so many do to my parents and greater community and when I left for college and could do that and everyone was very receptive, And so it's very nice to have a community here and in the larger, in everywhere I've gone.  Christian: Emily, it's interesting that you mentioned that, too. That could almost be its entire separate topic, right, of the advent of the Internet and how that has sort of impacted not only the way that, you know, our community has disseminated information and representation, but also how it's impacted the way that we use language. Language, getting sort of to the crux of this episode, I'm curious if either of you are willing to share specifically what the word queer means to you personally, and whether you've had any experiences with that term that sort of informed the way that you interact with it, the way that you perceive it, and your feelings around it.  Joe: It took me a long time to decide to respond to Christian about whether to do this, because I have, I feel conflicted. As a lover of words, I think queer is a great word. And I've always felt sad that it was hijacked in the way that it has been. And I mean, I went through a period of time where I wanted to be an etymologist. It's still an interest that I have. So despite the fact that I think it's a fabulous word, it's not a word I really ever use. And I certainly don't connect with it as part of my own identity. And while I love the idea of reclaiming words, anytime I've tried to use it, like the word has come out of my mouth, I have not felt comfortable. I'm not 100% positive about what the sort of official definition is in current usage. But, you know, I've heard it used as a an alternative to the sort of alphabet soup of LGBTQIA+, which is certainly a mouthful, and a lot. So I understand the desire to find a term that sort of captures all of that without literally needing to spell it out. But I've also heard it used as a general term for sort of intersection between sort of sexual and gender identities, which that can be a lot to communicate to someone. And so I can understand the need to want to kind of find an accessible term. I think about the term gay, which is sort of used as a catch-all for many sexual orientation identities, but it's a hijacked word and it's a little artificial. So because gay is an old term and it's one that I personally have come to identify with, I sort of try and remind myself on the use of the word queer that it's a little bit like gay and it's just a word that's been selected to try and capture something. But that's the purpose of words. They exist to capture the meaning of something, and it's never going to be quite exact.  Christian:  Yeah, absolutely. Especially, I think, within this community where there's so much nuance and sort of differences that we can all celebrate about each other. I think precision is definitely something that's difficult. Also hearing sort of from your response there, a little bit of, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like maybe some change over time in, you know, in one direction or another. Or maybe not necessarily directional change, but just some changes in the way that you've perceived that word over time and the way that you've sort of grappled with it. I'm curious if I'm reading that correctly, sort of what stages of your life, if any, that correspond with the way that you've your changes in that perception of that word have come about.  Joe: So you know obviously it was a common derogatory term in my youth so you know in that in that sense you know there's always going to be an element of trigger quick i mean it's a microsecond but it still exists that i probably you know will never fully lose and i think the evolution over time is to have it began to appear in different places from within the community. And I can't recall the precise time, but I can generally sort of recall when it started to pop up and I had a very negative reaction and I really had to sort of stop and examine that. But I think really my bigger transition was after marriage equality and sort of rights for gays and lesbians were sort of solidified in a variety of areas, legal areas, and societally. And then the sites turned to trans equality. And that just sort of opened up. Sort of before that, I didn't really know any trans people. And so being, knowing, and it's how we all learn and evolve is through our connections with other people. So by becoming connected with people who identified as trans and some of the other parts of the alphabet that I had never known before, I started to understand the challenge between precision, but also just being able to communicate in a general way. And that sort of pushed my evolution in how I see the word.  Christian: And Emily, I think for you, sort of same question, what does the term queer mean to you personally? And how has your understanding of the use of that word, whether it be for yourself personally or broader from the community perspective? What has that been like for you?  Emily: Yeah, I, again, did grow up kind of in this weird in-between time of very much when I learned the word as a young person, I knew it had been used in a derogatory way to large swaths of people to disenfranchise them and harm them. But that was never my personal experience. I had never heard the word used in a derogatory way to me or to any of my friends. There were certainly other words that got used, but queer was never one of them. And I do think I was growing up in a time of reclaiming the word. And I think there are lots of benefits to it. I like the idea that especially for kids, for people in middle school who are learning who they are to not have to. Niche down and label themselves when they're still learning who they are and to have this word that I perceive as an umbrella term for just the larger LGBTQ queer community to just be able to say I'm queer and I maybe don't know exactly what that means for me yet but it means that I'm something different than this societal standard I have found very helpful and I know a lot of my peers have found it very helpful and I think in a larger community sense I know several non-binary people who find it just easier than saying gay or lesbian when that doesn't quite identify with the intersection of their gender identity and their sexual identity. And so I know that the word has been harmful to people and have over time spoken to older people and have realized that and certainly don't use it to describe someone who I know is not comfortable with the word. But in my generation, I found it very helpful. And I think a lot of people my age find a comfort in it, almost a sense of security of just this big blanket term that also includes all of us and allows us to refer to the larger community as a whole, kind of as queer. And I think that's really nice. And I also grew up watching the word get used in mainstream media In 2018, when they revived Queer Eye, I know the original Queer Eye, I think, and I didn't watch it at the time, but the early 2000s one, I think that word was being used in an almost subversive way. And in 2018, when it came out, that was just what the show was called. And that's just what we all called it. And I don't know anyone who batted an eye at that, because it was just a very normal part of our vernacular.  Christian: Yeah, that's a really interesting point with the differences in reaction to pop culture. You know, I didn't even think about Queer Eye, but you're absolutely right. I have a similar, I think, sort of reaction to you when I think about, you know, when we were younger and that show was coming out for the first time versus now. That's a really interesting observation. Joe, I'm curious, do you have any reaction to that as somebody who, you know, maybe was paying more attention to the environment when shows like that were coming around originally?  Joe: Yeah, it's interesting. I'll just sort of move, start more current and work backwards. You know, so when they when they relaunched, you know, Queer Eye, I did not have any reaction at all to the word, I think, just because it was already like a brand in a way. But when it came out originally, I was I was suspicious of the show. It was it was a show where I avoided it, I think, in part because of the title and a lack of like, I just wasn't sure. Like i knew there were plenty of of gay people involved in the show but i just wasn't quite sure what their take was going to be was it going to be kind of a wink wink not not gay people are just so strange and funny and and so it took me a while to watch it and then i'm like okay i kind of see it so i i agree with emily that there was a lot of subversion going on in in the its original iteration that didn't really exist the second time around because it was sort of like no big deal.  Christian: Yeah, I think that goes directly to sort of this development of language piece that we're talking about today. It sounds like, you know, listening to the two of you sort of describe your experiences that you, you know, sort of all of us now as we sit here today are on a similar page with the way that we interact with this sort of language. But it's interesting hearing the perspectives coming from sort of two different and distinct places with different and distinct experiences sort of driving those thoughts. I'm curious to focus on, you know, as a community, as a group of folks who do have different identities and are trying to find a way to move forward that involves language that we all feel comfortable with and that describes us all, what are our thoughts on sort of the broader impacts of language, of the word queer, and how are those intersectional identities and things that we're thinking about factoring in. So sort of with that in mind, I'm curious if either of you have encountered in your experiences any challenges or any pushback from folks within the LGBTQ community to the word queer, either because they don't feel that it represents them or because, you know, any other concerns that you've been faced with?  Emily: I certainly have had interactions with people a little older than me who have a similar reaction to Joe in that the word when they grew up with it wasn't what it means to me now. And so it is a little bit more startling to them to hear on a first brush. And if the conversation continues and it's realized that that's a word that's not just a little new or startling, but is actually gently triggering in the way that it is for many people. It stops being used in that conversation and with that person if they're uncomfortable with it because as much as i like it and as much as i think it is inclusive for the whole community and even if the other person in the conversation thinks that it doesn't change the fact that they have an experience with that specific word that is harmful and and brings back negative associations And I do really like the trend toward inclusive words that don't make people pick niche labels at an early age. I do really like the freedom that broader terms give us. But I do also think there is room for growth or to find different words that across the community, across generations can be a little bit more kind to everyone that are new. We could invent a new word that is all-inclusive that no one has had bad interactions with. I don't know how we would or what that would be, but that's my ideal world for the future of language.  Joe: That is also my vision, would be to come up with a word that doesn't have baggage associated with it. And I also echo Emily, is that I would love a term, which is sort of how queer is tending to be used to be broad and inclusive, as opposed to the alphabet soup. The alphabet soup also, I think forces, I mean, Emily's coming at it from a person from the perspective of someone who perhaps is still trying to figure out who they are as they're, you know, forming their identity. But I'm also thinking about it in terms of like, just how specific does a person need to be? And I appreciate that, you know, some people have pretty complicated identities around orientation and gender that require not just a word, but maybe a sentence, a few sentences, and that gets very personal very quickly. Particularly because they may be things that the person that they're interacting with may not even be that familiar. They might use the word, and the person that they're speaking with may not even understand what that means. And so the fact that a person is often in the position of having to explain their identity to someone, that's just exhausting. And does someone need that much detail? So I think having an umbrella term that people kind of generally understand that you have an identity that is not 90, what is it, 94% of the population, whatever the current stats are.  Christian:Yeah, that's a very interesting piece. And I actually think it ties into something that Emily had just said specifically in that last answer that she gave about, I think you used the word freedom, Emily, when you were talking about words like queer and how they afford folks who use those identifiers a little bit more freedom. I'm curious, especially having just listened to what Joe said, if you could elaborate on that a little bit, sort of what you meant by that when you said freedom and, you know, how it ties into some of the things we're talking about today.  Emily: I definitely agree with Joe in that it gives freedom to not have to disclose parts of yourself that maybe you're not comfortable. Talking to other people about queer is just a very umbrella blanket term that implies that you are not the same as 94% of the population, but you don't have to go into specifically what you feel if you don't want to. I also think it gives freedom for exploration and change. And I think because being queer is not the norm in society, especially for younger people, can be difficult to figure out what that means for you specifically and how you feel and what your identity is. And so to have this umbrella word feels free and safe to me to not have to pick something and then feel nervous later about saying that specific word I chose doesn't fit anymore. And now I need to change what I'm telling people about myself and the stigma that comes with that. And I think the worry for some young people that comes from deviating from the norm already and the deviating from the deviation you decided. And so just saying I'm queer from the jump, it provides, I think, a sense of freedom to learn and grow and a sense of safety in that.  Christian: Right. And that's so important. And I think, you know, we have now nowadays we have studies suggesting, you know, having freedom as somebody who's growing up and discovering your identity, I think, is so important in, you know, long term success and happiness. I think a big piece of this too, and you both touched on this already, is whether it's queer or whether it's other language, so much of our community's success in speaking with each other is about this idea of person-centered language, which is not specific to the LGBTQ community. But when we are talking about it in that way, using the language that people are using to describe themselves and sort of being willing to go on that journey with folks to the extent that they are, you know, finding out new things about their identities, using new words, sort of being willing to take that linguistic journey with them, I suppose. Joe, earlier, you know, speaking of linguistic journeys, you mentioned that you had sort of a strong negative reaction to the word queer the first, you know, first time, first couple of times that you heard it. And you said that you had to examine that reaction. I'm curious if you'd be willing to to share for us sort of what that process was like for you and what was your impetus to maybe take a step back from the shock or the negative reaction that had you feeling like it was worth examining?  Joe:  Well, I think any time I have a strong negative reaction to something, I just feel like it's worth examining what's going on. Sometimes it's very obvious, but other times I'm like, hmm, I'm really surprised that I feel so strongly this way. And I think it's partly because I think I've always thought it's a cool word. I mean, just the sound and in a way that like faggot, for instance, not a cool word. It just doesn't sound cool. it doesn't have like there's it doesn't have any uniqueness to it it's very harsh and so you know as i dug deeper into it i realized this that it and i love the idea of reclaiming words but there are a couple things that that sort of went on for me one was it was a little bit shocking because it was a word that you're not supposed to say and then people are saying it and there are other or reclaimed words in other communities. I know African Americans who have a very strong negative reaction to the use of the N-word by anyone, whether they are part of the African American community or not. And then I think there's also this other piece that is a challenge in reclaimed words, which is why it would be lovely for, and I think we will eventually evolve to a term that doesn't have baggage, but the challenge is who can use the word, right? It's It's been reclaimed, but who, who's allowed to use it and when, and, um, I think anytime you have a word that people are unsure, they're unsure about what it means exactly and who is allowed to use it, that creates a barrier. It's no longer inclusive. It's really quite exclusive. And that's a danger that I, you know, that I see. And I have to kind of think about like, if I start using it, how do I feel if other people, say an ally or just a random person on the street, uses it? Yeah, I'm still not 100% sure about how I feel.  Christian: It's definitely a key topic to sort of conceptualize for sure. It's interesting, right, when you think about this discussion too in terms of other communities outside of the LGBTQ+ community, right? And so I'm thinking about the way that other marginalized groups have their own language issues that come up. I'm curious if either of you have ever found yourself in an experience where you were either more comfortable or more informed about using language, that is specific to a marginalized group because of your experiences with words like queer and sort of the dynamic nature of LGBTQ+ language. I think that Joe makes a really good point about who can use words and when and how that is concerning in a lot of ways. And I think that having a lot of friends in different marginalized communities, I don't necessarily use words that maybe they have reclaimed or that they would use for themselves. Because if I'm not part of those communities, it doesn't feel like my place to use them. But to me, the queer community is broader. And again, I think as someone who hasn't experienced that word being used in a derogatory way and who has only ever encountered the word in a generally pretty positive way, it makes me feel more comfortable. If that's how I describe myself openly and my friends from other marginalized communities use that word for me, I don't mind it as much, especially, I think, because I know that they have a history with words that impact them. And so I'm more likely to understand that their intent with that word is positive and to support me and the way that I use that word. And they don't ever mean it in a derogatory way because they understand the power that words have. And I think that that kind of intersectionality is important. And I also think that the queer umbrella is so broad and encompasses so many other marginalized communities that there is a lot of interplay between different communities and the words that we use.  Joe: I would say from my perspective, I'm very sensitive to words. So I try and really pay attention to the words that people are using for themselves and about their community. I just pay a lot of attention. I will occasionally do the bystander thing, not just for our people within the queer community who have an identity I don't identify with, but are perhaps a topic of conversation. But also for other communities and to just highlight, you know, in a low key way, why a particular language that's being used might be problematic. And I'm not talking about slurs. I'm thinking about having been in a conversation about for the Latin community and the use of Latinx versus Latino / Latina, and just being thoughtful about the words that are used. And the fact that communities are not monolithic, I mean, we, by definition, are very broad, but within other marginalized communities, there's a broad range of identities that people hold, and language reflects that. And one of the problems with language is it's kind of a general label that works well a lot of the time, but it's going to chafe a number of people who are part of that community and people who the label is applied to. And I use that labeling not in a negative way, but just it's a term that's used to refer to them.  Christian: Yeah, and I think that's critical, right? That point about, you know, communities not being a monolith. So there's always going to be a certain amount of struggle. But I think what I'm hearing from both of you is that, you know, sort of grappling with language in the way that you have as a member of the LGBTQ community has given you sort of insights and an ability to think critically about language in other settings and as used by other groups as well. In a way that is really empathy forward, which I think is really awesome and something that is important for us as we move forward in this D&I space. I think that puts us at right about time. Emily and Joe, it has been an absolute pleasure talking with you today. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. Thank you everybody so much for listening to this month's episode of Inclusivity Included. We at Reed Smith are always happy to have you as listeners. I hope you all had a good time today and learned a lot. Thank you.  Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com and our social media accounts.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not  guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.  All rights reserved. Transcript is auto-generated.

This week it's all about the Letter D in our A-Z of School. For most of our listeners (and Jack and Christian) It's D for... DETENTION! Not our Dear Patsy though.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's your son. Your pride and joy. The boy you changed his dirty diapers and the man you made him into – your man. And now he is going to propose to this young swan who you are unsure of her faithfulness. You've watched how all the boys look at her. She's just too pretty and too much temptation surrounding her which will constantly test her ability to stay with your son. And how do you know this? Because she is you thirty-five years ago. Listen to the video for insight on how to keep your Mama's Boy in your life after he marries.

How fasting affects the body, soul, and spirit.

Regina Prophetarum

“Imagine being a Black boy growing up, seeing where you're targeted, but nobody's talking about it. And worse, no Black parent is talking about it,” shares Dr. Christina Christian, educator and leader in special education and student success. Today, she joins host D-Rich to explore how parents navigate the joy, excitement, anxiety, and fear of raising a Black son.   Parents of Black boys need to be very intentional and proactive about their educational, social, spiritual, and emotional development to establish a strong foundation against the racial targeting they are unfortunately going to face. Black boys are still the lowest performing academically and research shows that they end up in the system more frequently than their White counterparts. Many teachers still have very little to no expectations for the success of Black male students and this can be extremely damaging to them. The systems in place and the discrimination especially within educational settings are designed to hold our Black boys back.    Talk to your Black sons about what it means to be a Black male in today's society and be proactive about getting involved in their education from the start so that you can stop any issues that may arise. Be sure to read your son books that reflect who he is and will become and validate the qualities that make him special and unique, so that he won't lose himself in the face of discrimination.    Quotes • “For a lot of these young boys, they just wanted school clothes, that was it. These were good kids who just wanted a nice jacket. They wanted the shoes and they saw drugs as a very easy, quick, simple way to get it. And they were being arrested over and over and over.” (10:10-10:27 | Dr. Christian) • “It's still Black males and the stereotypes that teachers have for them and no expectations, not low, but no expectations for what they're able to accomplish.” (23:47-24:03 | Dr. Christian)  • “When you put your child in a class, especially when you have a Black boy, write down your expectations. Sit down and have a meeting with that teacher and tell that teacher, these are the expectations I have.” (29:05-29:17 | Dr. Christian) • “Our black boys are the lowest performing we have in academics.” (34:06-34:12 | Dr. Christian) • “A black boy, white boy, black girl, white girl. All four of them can commit the exact same offense, and research shows black boys will be given the harshest consequence.” (35:24-35:40 | Dr. Christian) • “Imagine being a black boy growing up, seeing where you're targeted, but nobody's talking about it. And worse, no black parent is talking about it.” (40:35-40:44 | Dr. Christian)   Links Connect with Dr. Christina Christian: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drcchristian/   About with Southern Soul Live Stream - Podshow   Witty, thought-provoking, and uplifting, Southern Soul Livestream - Podshow is the program that you'll invite friends over to watch every week, where you'll learn about fascinating speakers and get to share in exciting experiences. Tune in each Thursday at 8 pm eastern at SoulThursdays.com to connect with guests from across the generations and to laugh with our "cast of characters," hosts who are as charming as they are talented!   Support - Community Exploratory Journalism  Buy us  A Coffee!  Learn - Register for our free podcast workshop training Getting Start in Podcasting Workshop Shop - Southern Soul Official Merchandise  Buy  Official Merchandise Purchase Official Show Companion  SSL Companion & Journal   Register -  Join a Live Episode Show - “It's a Whole Vibe!”  Click here to register.   #BecauseIhaveaBlackSon #BlackSon Connect with us Website: www.SoulThursdays.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/soulthursdays/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/soulthursdays/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/soulthursdays TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@soulthursdays

In this episode, you'll also hear:Three reasons why it's important for Christians to dream BIGBiblical examples of people who dared to dreamEight words to remember when the going gets toughThe Audience Attraction Formula, designed to help you turn your dreams into reality and make a difference in the world (link below!) 3 Reasons to Dream BigAs followers of Christ, we are called to dream big, to dare to pursue our passions and use our gifts to glorify God. Our dreams can become a reality, but it will take a combination of faith and obedience. So here are three reasons why it's important to dream big.1. To follow Jesus' example. Throughout Scripture, Jesus frequently encourages us to dream big and step out in faith. In Luke 1:37, He reminds us that nothing is impossible with God. And the same sentiment is echoed throughout the Gospels, as Jesus calls his disciples to trust in Him, to step out of their comfort zone, and to pursue something greater. By following Jesus' example, we can have courage to pursue our dreams and face the challenges that come along with them. 2. To live out our calling. We all have unique gifts and talents that God has given us for a purpose — to glorify Him through the work of our hands. If we're not striving towards fulfilling our calling, then we're not living up to the full potential that God has created within us. By dreaming big, we can take steps towards achieving our goals while honoring God along the way. 3. To spread joy and love. One of the greatest blessings of dreaming big is that it allows us to share God's joy and love with others, whose dreams then become a reality. Instead of holding back because fear or doubt gets in the way, boldly press onward, knowing that when you do so in faith, nothing will be impossible for you. Dreams come true when they bring glory to God above all else. Dream Big: Your Role as a ChristianIt's time to think about dreaming big as actually being a part of your role as a Christian. Let it be ingrained in how you think about yourself and what you do on a daily basis. Because when we dream big, we are acting like our Father and following in His footsteps. We are following Jesus' example. And when we dream big, we have the opportunity to live out our calling, spread joy and love around us, and to actually see what we're capable of doing. Consider the following biblical examples of people who were willing to step outside of the box. No matter how unlikely or impossible their circumstances seemed, these individuals found the courage and the strength to push forward. Let the stories of these three people who dared to dream inspire you to achieve remarkable success. Joseph: Joseph had a powerful dream that one day he would rise above his brothers and become a leader in his own right. Despite his brothers' envy and hatred toward him, Joseph persevered, determined to make that dream a reality. And sure enough, through a series of incredible events, Joseph became second in command over all of Egypt. Esther: Esther was an orphaned Jewish girl living in exile when the dream was presented to her to become the Queen of Persia. Through the providence of God and her own bravery, Esther was able to achieve that dream. Not only did she become queen, but she also saved her people from sudden death through her actions. David: David was just a shepherd boy when God gave him a big, hairy, audacious goal: to defeat Goliath. No one else was brave enough to face down this giant warrior, so David stepped up. And with faith in God leading him forward, he was able to defeat Goliath and gain fame throughout all of Israel as a great warrior king. We too can go forth with boldness if we trust God's will for our lives. The Bible is full of stories that show us what's possible when we dare to dream big, so let these stories inspire you to write your own story — one where you reach for your wildest dreams with courage and faith. And when you're in that space where the going gets tough, remember these eight words: you can achieve anything that God has promised you. If He's promised you something, He's going to come through. You just have to continue to dream big and trust Him to make the way. The Audience Attraction FormulaAre you ready to take the challenge and create something unique that will have a lasting impact on the world? If so, the Audience Attraction Formula is here to help. This formula can be used to turn your dreams into reality and make a difference in the world. We'll help you hone your target audience, figure out how to reach them, craft engaging content, and optimize it for maximum exposure. And you'll do this using the latest technology to create innovative work that shows off your expertise. This formula is designed to amplify your success, so get ready for an exhilarating journey of self-discovery and growth. 2023 is the year that you unleash your inner potential with the Audience Attraction Formula! Are YOU ready to dream big and make those dreams a reality?  BIO:My name is Tamara "Coach Tam" Jackson and I am a published author, Facebook© Certified Digital Marketer, host of the Top 100 Publishing Secrets podcast, and founder of The Christian Authors Network (C.A.N.) Facebook© community. I specialize in helping mission-driven authors, coaches, and entrepreneurs increase their exposure, impact, and income through strategic self-publishing and digital media appearances. Just say yes and we will work together to attract a tribe of loyal followers that 1) "get you", 2) love what you do, and 3) are happy to invest in your book, business, cause, or movement. Plus, we will accomplish all of this without fake, salesy, sleazy, or manipulative tactics. Yes you CAN write, publish, and profit in a way that honors God; join the community today at https://christianauthors.net/fbgroup.   GET CONNECTED:Connect with fellow Christian Authors: http://christianauthors.net/fbgroupDownload the Free Christian Author Marketing EBook: https://265point.com/secretsbook1Get Booked as a Guest Speaker for Free: http://christianauthors.netFollow Tam on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TamaraJacksonTransformationExpert/Interact with Tam on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fitnesstamara265/

Homilies from Archbishop Chaput – Page 19 – Archdiocese of Philadelphia (archphila.org)

Fathers of Mercy - YouTube

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Christianitterne har sagt ja til en aftale med staten om at bygge 15.000 kvadratmeter almene boliger på Fristadens område samt at styrke kriminalitetsbekæmpelsen. Endnu et led i »normaliseringen« af Christiania, siger boligministeren. Er christianitterne med på det? Christianit og talskvinde Mette Prag er gæst. Vært: Kaare Svejstrup. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Investing in Real Estate can be a good hedge against, but not all investments are created equal! Since inflation is rising and economic growth is slowing, it's more crucial than ever to understand some of the geographic and market peculiarities that may affect real estate asset performance. What can we do if the interest rates are rising and the banks are more reluctant to lend?   In this second part of our interview with Christian Pomerleau, we go into some specific strategies on how we can thrive as real estate investors despite the uncertainties.  Enjoy listening!  What we learned from Christian Pomerleau in this episode: - With rising interest rates, construction and small projects are more of a challenge… What else can work in these crazy times?  - Are things likely to improve in 4-5 months?  - When are new CMHC programs a good option for real estate investors? An analysis of advantages and disadvantages to MLI Select mortgages. - CMHC's 2030 vision.  - There's no free lunch — things most people overlook about the CMHC program.  Success Quotes: "What's really important is that, first of all, you study your stuff.” -Christian  “It's time for us to get into the action.” - Axel Timestamp: 00:00 - Intro 00:59 - Despite the effects of inflation, Christian shares the things that we can still do to cope up with the mayhem.  04:34 - Christian talks about why banks decline small loans and what our situation in 4-5 months could look like.  08:37 - CMHC 2030 vision — how can they make housing affordable for everyone?  11:29 - The advantages and disadvantages of the CMHC program. 17:17 - What most people overlook about the CMHC program. 21:37 - Ways to reach Christian Pomerleau. 22:01 - Outro  About the Guests: Christian Pomerleau, Senior Real Estate broker at PMML (Patrice Ménard Multi-Logements). PMML, founded in 2008, sells and finances only multi-family buildings. The Agency has gained a prominent place in this market segment thanks to effective techniques maximizing the sale and financing of multi-family buildings. The Agency edits and produces relevant content on the Quebec multi-family industry, notably various specialised market reports, as well as content in video and audio form as well as articles highlighting renowned professionals and investors.  Connect with Christian Pomerleau here:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-pomerleau  Connect with Us: Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/restateinvestorsclub/  Email: reic@clubimmobilier.ca  Axel Monsaingeon's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/axel-monsaingeon-42577b28/  Axel Monsaingeon's Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/monsaxel/  Terrie Schauer's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrieschauer/  Terrie Schauer's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrieschauer/ 

A dynamic discussion with Dr K. and her unique panel of guests: Eddie Tantoco, advisor; Dr. David Carfagno, of Scottsdale Sports Medicine Institute; Brian Hazelgren, author and speaker; and returning guest, Kameron Loe, of Haloe Health, and pro baseball. Hear life-giving experiences straight from these doctors and leaders taking part in the world of healthcare as they express the hardships, challenges, and solutions available to bring positive changes. Let's partake in a time of shifting our expectations from simply enduring 'side effects' in our quest for healing and relief, to actually enjoying effective 'side benefits' as the outcome!

A dynamic discussion with Dr K. and her unique panel of guests: Eddie Tantoco, advisor; Dr. David Carfagno, of Scottsdale Sports Medicine Institute; Brian Hazelgren, author and speaker; and returning guest, Kameron Loe, of Haloe Health, and pro baseball. Hear life-giving experiences straight from these doctors and leaders taking part in the world of healthcare as they express the hardships, challenges, and solutions available to bring positive changes. Let's partake in a time of shifting our expectations from simply enduring 'side effects' in our quest for healing and relief, to actually enjoying effective 'side benefits' as the outcome!

Sometimes Jesus is so annoying We are in the midst of the Gospel of John's discourse on the Bread of Life It began a couple of weeks ago when Pastor Ellen read about the miracle of the loaves and fish feeding 5,000 people Everyone is in awe of witnessing this incredible miracle Jesus has them in a really good place He captured their attention in a big way They suspect something incredible is going on They seek him out, track him down, and really are curious They engage him, wanting to understand what's going on And then he blows it He rambles on and on for three weeks in the lectionary about being living bread from heaven I'm with the Jews on this one They are feeling confused, frustrated, and they begin to complain “Hey, we know you – we know your mom, we know your dad – what do you mean ‘You came down from heaven'?!” And then Jesus doubles down on being annoying First, by telling them not to complain And then by talking way over their heads about learning from the Father, coming to Jesus, hearing from the Father through Jesus… Their one assurance, Very truly   Is that Jesus is the bread of life. I think that the reading from Ephesians offers us more information that seems actually helpful We are given instructions that we can apply… like Speak the truth Don't make room for evil Lift one another up Be kind, tenderhearted and forgiving Why didn't Jesus “very truly” speak more directly like this? I wonder about the message he's sending us through this twisted discourse I see the closest connection between Ephesians and John when I read in Ephesians: “We are members of one another” and Give yourself to one another like Christ is given to us   I think Jesus is being annoying on purpose Because there are no easy answers to the incarnation of Christ in the world There are no universal solutions to living into God's presence within YOU There are no easy answers for the disciples or the Jews – Or for us – When we're asking about who God is and how God works and where God is found Even after the obvious presence of a miracle of God through the feeding of 5,000 God can't be pinned down God is on the move, flowing in and out of everyone, everywhere, always If we allow God   This whole chapter causes me to think about the Lord's Supper I think sometimes we hear the words and do the thing so often that it's hard to grasp its significance Every week, and again in just a few minutes we will hear the words: Our Lord Jesus took bread, and gave thanks; broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying:  Take and eat; this is my body, given for you.  Do this for the remembrance of me. The way Jesus talks around things I doubt “do this” is literally get the bread and share it I wonder if Jesus is inviting us, our very selves   To be taken Broken open And given In remembrance of him We are taken into Christ through baptism We are broken open in so many ways We are given to one another in community I want to be specific about how I think about being broken open This isn't a breaking down of oneself This isn't admitting to sinfulness and therefore brokenness   God doesn't call us to be broken down by the world No God invites us to be broken open to the world God calls us to recognize Godself within our soul   And crack through the layers of ego that have buried Godself so deep inside of us And break open our true self Revealing the incarnation of God in US This sounds beautiful and lovely in theory   But there are no turn by turn directions for being broken and shared And Jesus doesn't try to give us directions He gives us a promise Because cracking through our outer protective layer to reveal our true self is scary Being broken and shared feels incredibly vulnerable and can be emotionally painful! I don't want to do it!    Jesus promises that if we go for it Then we will truly live If we let go God will be with us so obviously   Life will be more incredible than we imagine! Sometimes Jesus is so annoying Especially when everything within my being resists what he's trying to tell me Especially when I'm trying to be tough And smart And look like I've got myself together I don't want to be baptized into being broken and shared!   I'd rather be baptized into comfort and wholeness And this is the miracle God does within us Like the feeding of the 5,000   When we allow ourselves to be broken open And shared with one another God makes us whole God makes us whole And them whole   And wholeness is God's miracle Sometimes Jesus is so annoying We'll get another week of his unclear “very truly” explanations   God is asking us to really sit with this one Like maybe it's really important Like maybe it's getting to the core of being Christian It's so important we'll spend half of the summer wrestling with it   Jesus doesn't offer a clear answer for us I sure don't have an answer for us So I pray,  may Jesus the Christ, allow us to sense the unique gifts God has placed within each one of us.    May that sensing be a sign, may our wondering be a guide, may Jesus' promise be an inspiration, and may we have the audacity and courage to allow ourselves to be vulnerable.   Within that vulnerability may we be broken open, so that all of our insecurities, and doubts held up by our egos, fall away to reveal God's incarnation inside us.  May we be bold in our belief in abundance to give ourselves to one another in community, and may we celebrate the wholeness that this broken and shared living brings.  Amen

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In this episode, Dr. Kimothy Smith and Christian Railsback discuss non-tuberculosis mycobacterium (NTM) and how it differs from a gram-negative bacterium, like Pseudomonas.  Cell structure, metabolic Mycobacterium avium performance, exploiting biofilms, and culturable but non-viable cells are among the high points on the pathogen odyssey today. A transcript of the conversation appears below. More about Mycobacterium: CDC's Opportunistic Pathogens of Premise Plumbing list Mycobacteria MLST Scheme — Typing; Isolate and Genome Collections The 2015 Study — Epidemiology and Ecology of Opportunistic Premise Plumbing Pathogens: Legionella pneumophila, Mycobacterium avium, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa Stay tuned for more episodes, posting on the first Thursday of each month. Subscribe to our show wherever you get your podcasts and find more info at weebeastiespodcast.com The Wee Beasties podcast is a production of Nephros, Inc., a leading water technology company providing filtration and pathogen detection solutions to the medical and commercial markets. *** SHOW TRANSCRIPT: Christian:  I am back with Dr. Kimothy Smith. Kimothy, welcome back! Kimothy:  Thanks, Christian. Christian:  So, what's our bug for today? Kimothy:  Non-tuberculosis mycobacterium. (NTM) Christian:  Okay, NTM. What is NTM? Kimothy:  NTM actually includes 125 different species of mycobacteria. Essentially all of the mycobacteria that do not cause tuberculosis or leprosy, also known as Hansen's disease are included in the NTMs. Christian:  Interesting, so it seems like there could be a lot of ground to cover here.  Are there certain types of this mycobacteria that are more likely to exist in potable water and cause infections? Kimothy:  Yes, it's actually very complex and more than we can cover in this podcast. But, we can get a start and a little bit of a taste, so to speak, for NTM. In NTM's, the one most likely to cause a health issue in water is called Mycobacterium avium — it is actually a complex, Mycobacterium avium complex (MAC).  It can be found in fresh and saltwater, as well as in soil or dust, too. Like Pseudomonas, these are biofilm producers, and they use this as a niche to colonize. Particularly because they can take advantage of protozoa and amoebae that are motile. MAC behave as intercellular parasites and use them to colonize. Christian:  And at the cellular level, what kinds of characteristics stand out? Kimothy:  Well, different from our last bug, Pseudomonas, MAC is a gram-positive bacterium and non-motile.  But it is rod-shaped, like Pseudomonas was. Perhaps one of the most notable features at the cellular level is its slow growth rate and slow cellular metabolism. Where some bacteria might reproduce every 20 minutes, the mycobacteriums are usually measured in hours, and sometimes even a day or more, for them to reproduce. So, this is really slow. This is noteworthy because it allows the bacterium to gradually uptake and process any antibiotics and disinfectants in its habitat, resulting in the bug being very resilient in an environment treated with antimicrobial agents.  It also produces mycolic acids that coat the cell surface in a kind of wax, increasing its cellular defense – antibiotics and disinfectants can't penetrate it as easily. Christian: It sounds like it's a pretty difficult bacteria to kill. Would one be able to use chloramine or superheating to address NTM in their water supply? Kimothy:  Many remediation methods are not effective in removing NTM from building plumbing.  In fact, some remediation methods may remove competing microbes and result in increased concentrations of NTM in the water. So they take advantage of the depression of the other bacteria in the community and they fill that void. Still, other methods such as treating water with chlorine or chloramine are ineffective, too.    Christian:  The bug has a waxy protective coating, a slow metabolic engine that allows it to resist antibiotics, and it's really tolerant to chlorine and chloramine treatments.  This is an impressive set of defenses.  Is there anything else? Kimothy:  Well, two more things, actually. Remember that I mentioned MAC produces mycolic acid as an additional protective barrier on its cell membrane? Well, that is also an essential component to the formation of biofilms, which it uses to both protect itself and enhance colonization and translocation, so when pieces of the biofilm break off. Lastly, MAC is sometimes not easy to culture because the cells enter a state of VBNC, or Viable but Non-Culturable.  This is usually because several treatment modalities have been used in the water or nutrients are in short supply, so the cell operates in a dormant, but a still viable condition. This is one of those worst-case scenarios because when you send samples to a lab to be cultured there is no indication pathogens are in your premise plumbing. So, yes, this is a really complex bug to get rid of – it has a tough cell membrane, it hides in biofilms, it can resist anti-biotics, it can survive chloramine and chlorine treatments, and it can remain undetectable in VBNC state. Christian:  Wow, okay. How does one become infected with NTM and what are the consequences of becoming infected? Kimothy:  MAC enters the body when individuals inhale or swallow the bacteria, say through a water source, so this could be a shower, steam rising, or drinking water. But most people, however, will not become ill or acquire an infection if they have healthy immune systems.  Those at greatest risk for infection are individuals with compromised immune systems. Mostly, patients acquire progressive respiratory distress that eventually leads to an acute pulmonary infection.  People with HIV/AIDS for example, or COPD or emphysema patients; very young or very old; cancer and organ transplant patients are most susceptible. Patients who are infected are not thought to be contagious at all, you can't pass this infection by touching or being within proximity of an infected person.  Although the lungs are the most likely organ system to be affected, MAC can also affect the integumentary and lymphatic systems, resulting in lesions and inflammation. Christian:  Fascinating stuff, Kimothy.  Well, is there anything else before we close today? Kimothy:  I'd just like to point out some resources, in case individuals are interested in learning more.  The CDC's Opportunistic Pathogens of Premise Plumbing list was the inspiration for our molecular assays at Nephros.  I recommend people start there if they are wanting to know more. Christian:  Well, again, thanks so much! This is always a pleasure. Kimothy:  Likewise, Christian.

To reach Beth Gardner website: selfreliant.info or email: bethgardner250@yahoo.comThe Kim B. Davis Show featuring Beth Gardner, Global Certified Life Coach and owner of Self Reliant discusses her battle with Cancer, people with addictions, Co-Dependency and mental health. We talk about the connection  of grief, pain, hate, and anger left unchecked in the body and the connection to disease. Join the conversation and continue toward healing.Support the show (https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/my/profile)

8. Wendell discusses winter holidays as humanist and atheist while reading pieces by famous 19th century orator Robert Ingersoll."Middle America" is a podcast using history, storytelling, and music to talk about all of the issues and feelings brought on by the world around us. "Middle America" is an access point to everything under the sun.Music in this episode:Jared Grabb “Christmas Bars (‘Prison Bars’ Xmas Version)”Jared Grabb “Untitled (Folk Song Starts 1)”Jared Grabb “The Straying Atheist (Middle America Version)”Jared Grabb “You Are Home”Sadface Killer “’03 Hoopin”Jared Grabb “Middle America Ad Music”Jared Grabb “Christmas Bars (‘Prison Bars’ Instrumental Xmas Version)”The featured music for this episode was “’03 Hoopin” by Sadface Killer. Everything else was created by Jared Grabb.All of Jared Grabb's and Scouts Honor's music is published by Roots In Gasoline (ASCAP). Editing assistance was provided by Becca Taylor.patreon.com/midamericapodfacebook.com/midamericapodinstagram.com/midamericapodtwitter.com/midamericapodmidamericapod.bandcamp.commiddleamericapod@gmail.comSupport the show (http://www.patreon.com/midamericapod)

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What do you think it means to dig deep as a Christian? It might not sound glamorous, but Jesus gives two things He wants people to do: hear Him and do what He says. That’s digging deep to build on the right foundation. Let’s dig deep and follow Jesus. You can support this podcast by subscribing to wherever you listen to podcasts.  

Welcome to season 2!  In this episode, Christian Haynes ’20 speaks with Schone Malliet ’74 about his dynamic career and the many ways that he strives to foster diversity, equity, access and inclusion for all. Interview originally recorded on July 30, 2020.  Due to the ongoing effects of the pandemic, all interviews in season 2 are recorded remotely. --- Transcript Schone: The question that I have now: is diversity, equity and inclusion, a committee or is it a culture? Is it something that you talk about around a table or it's something that is a way of life? I think that it's both. It starts with the talking around the table, but it needs to be the way things are, not something that you do. Maura: Welcome to Mission-Driven, where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I'm your host Maura Sweeney from the class of 2007, Director of Alumni Career Development at Holy Cross. I'm delighted to welcome you to today's show. Maura: Welcome to season two. In this episode, we hear from Schone Malliet from the class of 1974. Schone's career path will keep you on your toes, although he claims that his life isn't movie material. After growing up in the South Bronx, he came to Holy Cross in the early '70s and successfully walked on the varsity basketball team. Upon graduation, he entered the Marine Corps and became one of its first black jet pilots. From there, he got his MBA and worked as a top executive in the technology and banking industries. Today, he combines this wealth of experience with his passion for making a difference in people's lives. Maura: Christian Haynes from the class of 2020 speaks with Schone about his life, career and his current work as the CEO of Winter4Kids, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to make a difference in the lives of youth through winter activities. As his first intern, Christian was able to witness Schone's hard work up close. Filled with thoughtful insights around diversity, equity, access and inclusion, their conversation highlights the many ways that we can all make a difference in our communities and the wider world. Christian: What's good everybody? Welcome to the Holy Cross Mission-Driven podcast. I'm Christian Haynes, class of 2020, which means, yes, I'm officially an alum and hopefully in five years, I'll be on the other end of this. But today, I'm the interviewer and my guest today, great man, a man that can light up the room with his energy and charisma, a man that's been giving me opportunities to become a better person from the moment I met him.... and I'm glad to call him a mentor, Mr. Schone Malliet. Schone: How are you doing Christian? I am really glad to be here. I'm not sure who you're describing there, but when I find him, I'll make sure I connect the two of you, okay? Christian: I actually compared you to Magic Johnson, by the energy you bring. Schone: Well, that's good because he got his game from me and everything he does on the court was because of all the things I hoped to be. No. Thank you though. Christian: He definitely did. How's everything though? Schone: Actually, it's pretty good. Well, it's mixed. With everything going on with CV-19, our society and the upheaval that's going on, it's mixed. I go through a day that has highs and has lows and a lot of thoughtful moments. All in all, its life, right? It’s not always good, it’s not always bad, it’s just hard. I think it’s making me better and hopefully its making all of us better. Christian: Yeah. I guess it’s all just about adjusting to these events. I guess that's the best we can do. The most recent things that we've been doing to adjust and by “we” I mean the Holy Cross community, the ALANA talks we have every two Saturdays, that you’re a part of. I think that you started right? You start that? Schone: We started that as a happy hour and it became talks. I think it's been an awesome way for alumni and students... A safe place to talk about the things and share what we feel, what we're going through and hopefully gain somethings. I gain insight from everybody there, especially the students and recent alumni. You guys are my heroes because I never stop learning, and I do learn a lot from all of you. Christian: Yeah, so with these alumni talks, one of the biggest topics is the social injustice issues that we face both on the Holy Cross campus and outside of it as well, around the world. And one thing that a lot of students say now, or a lot of alumni say now is that nothing has changed from when they were in school, whether it's '70s, '80s, '90s, early 2000s. A lot of things have stayed the same when it came to these social injustice issues, these race wars almost. How do you feel about that? Do you feel the same? You feel as if things have changed or things have stayed the same? Schone: Wow. I was listening to something about the athletic director, I think for one of the conferences and I think it was a conference of HBCU's and he was talking about this issue of integration versus assimilation. I believe what's happened and is still happening today is, while I've been able to evolve from us taking over Fenwick when I was there into which on surfaces, it's been a very good and blessed career, that I've been resensitised to some of the challenges that I went through in my career, whether they were explicit or implicit racism or the -isms that things did not really change. And I think I let my success lure me into believing that it was different. And talking to students, talking to my fellow alumni, revisiting my life as it has been and how it is today, the issue of being impacted socially, emotionally, because of the color of my skin and even how I live is still there. Schone: So, I have to have the talk right? With my son who's 21 years old about, listen get stopped, here's what you do, don't get stopped and then even to have to be sensitive to how, what, when and where are my surroundings, has let me know that this is still real. And so you asked about how do I feel about that, I'm feeling a lot of stuff but I'm also hopeful. And I'm hopeful because in this time which is different to George Floyd thing, the Breonna issue, all of these things now have been front and center for everybody. And so I don't feel that I am, we are as Black people are going forth by ourselves. I think that the whole of society has been brought into the experience. Christian: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Seeing them on allies today. Many protests have been happening, even outside of the country which is kind of surprising for me. I always thought this was a American thing, but there are a lot of people of color facing the same struggles outside of this country. So it is great to have those allies all around the world. We're going to backtrack here a bit and go back to 1970s, South Bronx. When I say that, what's the first thing that popped up in your mind? Schone: I'm a projects kid right? 1710 Lafayette Avenue. Kemba Walker came from the same project which is again where my basketball skills must have went to because I didn't have any. And I look back at the South Bronx as not something bad, it was great where I grew up, it was alive. Of course as I compare it to now and we look at it, it looks different in terms of equity and access and those things but I am a product of everything that I went through growing up, raised by a single female and her having the insight to put me in Catholic schools, to be prepared for where I am today. I love my upbringing, I love everything about it. I wouldn't change it, I didn't know what I didn't have which is kind of a blessing because everything I felt that I went through was what I was supposed to go through. Christian: Rice was located in Manhattan? Rice High School? Schone: 124th Street and Lenox Avenue, in the heart of Harlem- Christian: Yeah, right in Harlem. So what was that like? A private school in Harlem? Schone: Well, first of all, at the time there were no high schools in Harlem. The student body was probably all of, was is it about 400 or 600? And was majority White in Harlem and during the time I went to school there, was the riots of the '60s right? And Rice was a block away from any transportation, buses and trains that I had to take two buses and two trains to get to school. None of the kids who went to school there ever subjected to anything negative. Rice was a great school, Felipe Lopez, Kemba Walker came out with some great basketball players but again that Catholic education plays a role in preparing me for today and Rice High School, it's interesting because I didn't play basketball in high school because I'd tell everybody that Rice High School, the managers could start at any other high school in New York City which is true because I was a manager but I got to play up at Holy Cross so I guess it was unique and it's a shame that it went out of... It's been sold and it's now a school for Harlem Children's Zone. A good legacy. Christian: And you said that Rice prepared you for today, how did it prepare you for Holy Cross? Schone: I think the group of individuals that were kind of the core... this group of individuals helped me create a voice and we started an organization called the Coalition of Catholic High School Students in New York and this is before cellphones and before computers and we not only were activists but it was a social organization as well and I think again it gave me the opportunity to find my own voice. And I probably learned to talk too much but I think that came from my grandfather and all of that and there are people who talk about me and my family, my father's side because my grandfather was a foreign editor on EMCM News. He also was a Black publisher but people in Harlem says oh, you're that Malliet family. All of you guys you could talk, so don't blame it on me, blame it on my heritage. Christian: That's dope. Sometimes I wonder for myself, how did I end up in Holy Cross coming from Brooklyn. So what was it like, the private institution you were part of, the Catholic culture that you were part of that put you onto Holy Cross or maybe a friend? What led you to stepping on the hill? Schone: I picked it out of a hat. I picked Holy Cross out of a hat and let me explain that. So, my mother who didn't have the high school education... So college was not within a vision of my mother or myself and during the time, everybody talks about the fraternity which was the class of '60 that came in '72 but Father Brooks kept recruiting. And part of the response to the riots of '68, '69 were that schools started to proactively recruit Black students and they actually used the PSAT's right? No, I guess that Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test, the practice test as screeners. So they not only screen African American students but they started to proactively set out invitations to apply. And they sent them to guidance counselor, and my guidance counselor pulled my mother in the school, said bring your mom into school and I said for what, I didn't do anything wrong and he said no just bring her in and I brought her in and he says listen, I want to talk to you about college's for Schone and she said he's not going to college. There's no money, there's no... and she didn't understand. Schone: He said no, I have his applications here, these schools he can get into and he should apply and we applied and there were some interesting schools, Holy Cross was one, the Merchant Marine Academy was another one, UCLA, Slippery Rock State Teachers College, John Hopkins, don't ask me why those schools. I picked Holy Cross out of a hat, didn't understand why, I'd never visited the campus and showed up there the first time and had not a clue of what I was doing and why I was there. I believe not in karma but spirituality that I believe in a higher power and a lot of things in my life, I probably would not have chosen on my own but I'm sure that I was guided and that was one of the best things that ever happened to me. Christian: Did you really pick it out of a hat? Schone: Yes, I really did pick it out of a hat- Christian: I mean, imagine you really having a bunch of papers in a hat. That's crazy, I mean I guess it is fate- Schone: My life has been interesting and you're going to laugh at this, I'm sure [inaudible 00:15:50] that when you look at what I've done in my life, like Holy Cross right? And the Marine Corps as a pilot and Technology's CEO and Pepperdine MBA and banking and running Winter4Kids, it looks like a great story right? It looks like an awesome movie, it's not movie material. There was no plan for those things. So I tell people all the time, I ended up doing all of that because I didn't know I wasn't supposed to and again I go back to, that I've prepared when the opportunities came along but the preparation went not only to Holy Cross, the institution but all the people in my class and who were ahead of me, I mean Ted and Nina Wells, to Malcolm and all the people that played basketball with, from Stan to RL, Rod and all of these individuals, even though I was abused by most of them. Schone: Not only abused in that social setting but prepared me for the rest of the world and when I think about Holy Cross, that critical thinking component is really the most valuable thing that I've ever been able to learn and integrate within my life and internalize because it goes to problem solving. And if there's anything that I would say that I really enjoy and characterize as what's my talent or thing I like to do, I like problem solving. I enjoy the complexity of it and trying to find which people than others are a solution that works. Christian: That's good to hear because there's a lot of problems in this world, so I guess we all going to come to you then. Schone: No, but I'll be more than happy to talk about it but it's true I mean, there's always a solution right? And it depends on how much time and energy that you can put into it and what the goal is. If the goal is to be right, then it's not going to work. If the goal is to find something that works for everybody, that's great. I think it was Barack Obama who spoke at Harvard’s graduation a couple of years ago, that said, if you expect your life to be something where you're going to get your way a 100% of the time, it's not going to happen. The thing you have to learn is what's important, how to compromise, how to communicate and decide that everybody has to win for something to be sustainable. Christian: That's also kind of boring too. I mean you don't even know what's going to happen. So if you're right all the time, is it really fun? Schone: I wouldn't know because I've never been right all the time and if I find anybody, I'm usually going to walk away from them too because... But I think that, those experiences right? And you know when you're interning here, the way that we work is, how do we figure out what's the best way to do something which I think is an inherent skill set that Holy Cross is really, really good at no matter what your major and giving you those kind of tools. Christian: Yeah, one thing I actually noticed at the office there, once you have the kids, something that we do especially junior year, senior year, a lot of collaborations, a lot of team work and it's similar to what you just said, trying to find the best solution to the problem given to us. And although I dreaded it at the time, working with other people and meeting them at 11 o'clock at Cool Beans, all that stuff, staying up until 4 o'clock, you know that. All that good stuff, it definitely works in the long run and seeing that from you and seeing that at Winter4Kids, in a business setting I can see that it's definitely a tool that I'll definitely carry for the rest of my life. Christian: But how were you as a student? Not just as a student but as a person at Holy Cross, on campus. Where you like some of the people I've interviewed before? Just partying all the time, I'm not going to mention any names but maybe you know who I'm talking about. Partying all the time, stuff like that. Where you a studious student or you were just that person that went about your business and wanted to graduate right away? Schone: Can I plead the fifth? Because it's good that my parents who are in heaven now, because I don't think they want to hear this. Going to college was a whole brand new experience for me because I had no plan for it. So I didn't know what to do when I got there, right? I was a studious, actually I don't think I knew how to study right? So I guess the best I was capable of doing but my capabilities were limited by my own faults right? So I would say that I enjoyed playing basketball, I enjoyed the parties, the social life. I didn't necessarily embrace the opportunity to learn as much as I could, the best way I could and now when I look back on it, learning is more than just the academic side, it was all the things I went through. Deciding to make a basketball team and go and try out was a big deal. I lived on the Black corridor and then moved off that into Beaven as an experimental house. Schone: I had my eyes open to a world I'd never known of and I think the core of my learning was exploration of opportunity and interactions and it drove me to actually sign up to be a Marine officer which most of my colleagues and you know said.... On Commencement day, after I got my degree I had to go get commissioned and I put on my uniform. There are people who said, what the heck is going on here because they had no idea and I believe that. So to answer your question, I was not studious, I definitely enjoyed the social side, I learned a lot. Could I have done better academically? Absolutely. I was so scared to look inside my... The folder you get with your degree to see that there was a paper in it because I wasn't sure that I had made it. Schone: But I will say that there is something that I learned about what college is supposed to be through that and it's truly academic side, but I think that college is the place to experience a lot of things. Matter of fact, has it a negative that shaped the rest of your life? Because had I not learned coping skills, I could not have experienced and be comfortable in a majority world, as I have been. Does that make sense? Christian: Definitely does- Schone: And I think that the coping skills were the personal interactions with individuals. Christian: Yeah, I always say that you learn more outside the classroom than you do in it and I think my GPA outside of classroom had to be full point on. Because- Schone: I wish I had put that on my transcript, because I could have used that but I think that when people say so what you got out of Holy Cross? Which is why I feel so much about what the school gave me as an opportunity. Like everybody, I came out of there with not feeling that the experience was the most positive at the time but when I look at it in context to where my life has been and where it is now, the will learning was so subtle but so life changing and in the context of me still being a Black man. I did not and do not give up what my essence is. I embrace it, I internalize it and I manage it so that I can be heard and understood and felt. Schone: So today as we talk about what we're going through, I'm talking to colleagues of mine who are White. They are calling me and asking me questions and I'm welcoming those conversations because I believe that if they are going to call and be courageous enough to ask the question, their intention is to learn and to be better and if I can give information from my perspective or what I feel or what I think, it gives them another data point for them to now have a choice about how they are going to interact with anyone who is physically different but surely those of us who are Black. Christian: Now after graduation, like you mentioned straight into Marine Corps. Talk to me about that, the decision going into it, your time there and finishing that time. Schone: Most people who go to college have some goal coming out of it. Being a lawyer, being a doctor, I want to go into law enforcement. Remember I had went in with no particular goal. I had no clue about what I was going to do after I went to college, so the story about the Marine Corps is an interesting one because at the time, Marines were recruiting officers on campus, they would come out in front of Hogan, set up a table and there'd be Marines in uniform recruiting individuals- Christian: They still do that? Schone: So at that time we were protesting, the Marine Corps recruiting on campus. And I say we because I was part of the protesters. And we stood around this table as only Holy Cross individuals can do when they protest. Maybe a 100 in silence for hours and the Marine officer in charge, Major said to me, you don't even know what you're protesting about. He said and you probably could even make it as a Marine. Now I don't know what happened but in the context of looking for something to do after college, I explored the Marine Corps, I took the test for this program. They asked me if I wanted to be an aviator and is said I don't have a clue because I'd never been in an airplane before, they said okay, well take the test, let's see what happens and I guess I did okay with that because I got past the application side, I went to Officer Candidate School, which was down in Quantico, for I think between my sophomore and junior year, no between my junior and senior year. Schone: 12 weeks of a lot of physical challenges, but a lot of it was officer leadership challenges and I got through it and came back to Holy Cross. Spent that whole year. Nobody knew that I had been through that. Graduated, got my commission as an officer, went to the Officer Training School which is the basic school then went to flight school. Flight school was interesting because I think I had the lowest grades of any candidate coming out of flight school and I was the third Black jet pilot in the Marine Corps behind Major General Peterson, the first Black General in Marine Corp and then Charlie Bolden who's a General as well. Charlie Bolden flew the light aircraft that I did but Charlie Bolden was the first astronaut, he was also the head of NASA. Schone: But this interesting about the Marine Corps was that, that was my first experience about being treated differently because I was Black. I was not a great pilot coming out of flight school, I was concerned that I got my wings because I was Black. I said to my instructor I don't want to get this just because I'm Black and he said Schone, I don't worry about you because you are confident, you're capable, you will not press yourself passed what your capabilities are and that's a good thing and sometime in your career, you're going to be okay and be a good pilot but up until that time, people are not going to think very highly of you, because you won't be performing at the level that they expect. Schone: And true to form, I didn't. At one time they challenged me on my ability from an academic stand point, whether or not I was smart enough to be a pilot and I had to use my performance and Officer Candidate School and basic school to show them I finished in the top five of the class out of 250, just to offset that. But subjected to evaluations both direct and indirect because of the color of my skin and I don't know if I accepted it or ignored it because I didn't know how to handle it. I will say that I went from being a very, very bad pilot to being a very, very good pilot. Then got out of the Marine Corps, but at the Marine Corps was very important, near and dear to my heart. A Marine, a Crusader, being raised by my mother, having family, legacy that's important and Winter4Kids, are all things that I'm extremely proud of and blessed to have had the experience because all those things helped me to be the person that I am both in business and personally. Christian: I love driving, I love being behind the wheel but flying a plane, I don't think that's something I'd ever do. What is that like? Anxiety levels have to raise, you more courteous. What is it like? Schone: Flying an airplane is like anything else that you do. Once you learn how to do it, I hope my son doesn't hear this because when I'm riding in the car with him driving, they may as well be a steering wheel and a brake on my side of the car because I'm pressing him out. But I think that, as you progress with anything, you learn how to do the basics and you learn how to take what you learn and apply it, which is skills that you develop. And then you get comfortable at knowing how to apply those things at the right time. But I will tell you that flying an airplane is interesting because it moves at 11 miles per minute and there's lots of things going on. So 11 miles per minute... So your thought process speeds up to process all that information. You don't skip steps, you just do that quicker which creates challenges for me today because some people say, well you get to a conclusion Schone, much quicker than everybody will and do you skip steps or do you jump to conclusions. Schone: It's really not true. What I do is, I process all those steps and risks and those things. I don't get it to a 100% but I've learnt to evaluate things, detail wise very quickly and then be able to make the right decisions but flying was and is one of those things that I got to do and landing on an aircraft carrier, all those things have created things that are special to me. And also, remember I told you that I did a lot of things because I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. They should told me, I should have been scared landing on aircraft carrier because now I probably wouldn't do it but... Christian: I got one question. I feel like a lot of people got to have this question as well, are all those buttons necessary? Schone: In an airplane? Christian: Yes. Schone: Every single thing that is in front of you in an airplane is something that's going to impact how long you live and how good you're going to be, at living that and doing your job. There is nothing in it that is unnecessary. Christian: I'm just asking, I just felt like there's too many buttons. I feel like at least 10% of them are just there to be there. Schone: No, and the interesting part about this, you learn how to scan them and you'd check on those things, not focusing on only one thing because you can't. But you'll learn how to quickly take those things in and keep your eyes outside. So you learn those things. Christian: So one thing, I don't think you did mention it. You went from Marine Corps to- Schone: Technology. Christian: Right. Technology in the '90s. To me that's pretty interesting because now that's almost like we're in an era where technology is part of our lives 24/7 but in the '90s, how was that? Schone: It wasn't like it was today. It was interesting because what we know of as a cloud, existed back in the '80s and '90s, that's what they called timesharing. But I do think what happened for me was, I always went to technology as... I was really interested in how I could use it. What could I use it for? And because I got my MBA at the same time that I was working for Computer Scientists Corporation which would use technology to solve problems. I actually used that technology to help me with my MBA and so I became a user of any technology to help me get things better, faster, sooner. So for me, and you know me, I have just about every piece of technology you van have but it's all about how do I use it? And how does it make my life easier? I think that today, we have a lot of technology out there. Schone: I'm not sure that we know how to use those things, like Apple creates things first and then you figure out how to use them later on. I still can’t figure out today, why in the world I've got a watch on my hand and I could call somebody, listen to music, tell time, manage how exercise I've got and by the way tell me if my heart is working. But if you think of that right, we didn't ask for all that. And so I think that it's evolving so that it helps us to live better and it did back then as well. Christian: So fast forward and imagine you go to banking but same time you got into Winter Sports with the National Brotherhood of Skiers. Now before we answer that one, I want to know what was it first time you got exposed to Winter Sports? Schone: I got exposed to Winter Sports, following my navigator when I was in the Marine Corps. We decided that one weekend we would go to Park City Utah. And on the weekends, in the military you train on the weekends, meaning you could use the plane to train and go to different places. So we decided to go to Park City. Mike Vizzier was a skier, Schone Malliet was not a skier. Mike Vizzier was an expert skier, Schone Malliet was not a skier. Got all the equipment, went to Park City, followed Mike up the lift and there's a lift called and a trail called Payday which had Park City people know is not something for a beginner. Followed him up there, fell getting off the lift, fell numerous times getting down and I promised myself, I was never going to do this again. I was cold, It was miserable and the immediate gratification of me doing something to get it right, was not there. I was not happy camper. That was the first time. Schone: Now National Brotherhood of Skiers which is the largest organized group of skiers in the United States, which is all African American had at the time, over 70 clubs now has about 50 clubs in multiple cities I lived in Los Angeles. I got hooked up with Four Seasons West and they socialized the whole process. Every weekend, we'd get in the cars and drive up the Mammoth. I wasn't any good then but happy hour helped so you may have been miserable, you may had a tough time but you got to go back and misery loves company. At least socialize about the experiences that you didn't really like. That allowed me safe place to get better at the skills, to enjoy it and help me get to where I am today. Christian: Now was the National Brotherhood of Skiers, was that a non-profit? Schone: Yes, it is, it was and at the time I was just a member of this club, but I also got into the coaching side of it and coached African American kids because the National Brotherhood of Skiers, their mission is to identify, develop and support Athletes of color who will win international and Olympic winter sports competitions, representing United States and to increase participation in winter sports. It was what gave me the experience to be a coach and then to take African American athletes who wanted to pursue that and to train, we went to South America twice during the summer time, which is winter there. We went to Switzerland twice to train. A great experience. Christian: Right. So you were doing that at the same time as the banking and stuff and I think for a lot of us that come from these communities that lack resources and those who are fortunate enough to end up in a college with more resources and get to network and all that stuff, our goal is to obtain as many resources as we can. One of those resources is money. So we try to chase the money but our heart also tells us to give back to the community. Did you feel like there was a pressure to do both or some type of... You felt like you were pressured to do one more than the other? Schone: I don't think any of those things at the time, were pressure things. I think it was things that I just wanted to do. I do think that somehow along the line of my life, I've been wired to make a difference in people’s lives. That's what drives me. And as part of my DNA, it's what fuels my energy and excitement, is to see what impact I can have on individuals, companies. Whether it's younger alumni like you or current students or races who want to pursue something, people who work here Winter4Kids. Because I realize that my life was gifted to me and the things that I've been able to accomplish and it took efforts and support and people around me, who cared enough about me to guide me. Maybe to chastise me, and even people who were negative to me gave me the skills to be who I am. So I think I've always been cognizant of the fact that I was the beneficiary of the people caring and helping me and I believe I internalized that, so that's what drives me to make sure that my team, they are as good as can be. Schone: That our impact at Winter4Kids on our youth has significant impact. That current students at Holy Cross, alumni, that if I can share my thoughts, my feelings, my experiences, not as directives but as information that it could be useful for them and for me with the things that they go through. Does that make sense? Christian: It definitely does. Definitely does. Now to today, Winter4Kids, you mention that a lot during our talk. Talk to me about that, what is it? What do you guys stand for? What do you guys do? Schone: Winter4Kids, our sole existence is to make a difference in our kids’ lives. Kids who traditionally don't have access to winter activities, through winter sports and the outdoors. That difference includes better health, through better and more activities but in which attitudes is about nutrition, their own future, the outdoors and opportunity for them to master something they have never done before. And to give them a platform to build upon so that now they have choices, can choose to go to college, can choose to explore a sport. To choose to ignore a practical or physical limitations to enjoy something different and new and the fact that over the last five years, it's been over 8671 kids, our kids and continuing to grow till we get to 10000 kids a year and we'll do about 34 hundred this next year and to be able to use Winter4Kids as a way to change lives, like you're an intern here and I have three Holy Cross interns this year. I think I have Oluchi, Meah and Emma, and they are shaping the future for us. It is an exciting and unique opportunity. Schone: It allows me to take a sport that I enjoy, an inert desire to make a difference in the lives of people, especially young people. The experiences of running a business, gathering the resources to do that and developing with the team. A sustainable plan is the most exciting thing I've ever had to do in my life and it's a blessing, karma, you can call it whatever it is but I get to do all those things a lot because of all the things that I experienced by my life. Christian: Right. Was I the first intern from Holy Cross? Schone: Yes. Christian: I was the guinea pig. Schone: Yes, you were the pioneer. Somebody once told me that pioneers get all the arrows but those that live through the experience get the first choice at prime real estate. Christian: I feel that. Now being a Black man and being a CEO of a winters sports organization, is that really strange to some people? And it definitely carries a stigma... There's a stigma that Black people don't belong in winter sports or they don't want to be in winter sports. How do you, with your platform try to change that? Schone: There's no doubt that winter sports, lacks in multicultural experiences or participation. In the role that I have today, has not always been received by everyone as a net positive for the industry and I ignore them. Christian: How? Schone: Well, the way that I live my life is that I can't control how people feel, I can't control how people think. The only thing that I'm rally in control of is what I do, my integrity and the values by which I live. And understand that, things like privilege and immunity come into play. That is, when you are first in an industry or sport or anything and you're being first is different. The evaluation of you is not the same as those who are from the majority are White. So, Winter4Kids, we have always been focused on what our mission is, how we do these things and create a culture of equity, access and emerging. I tell people today that at Winter4Kids, diversity, inclusion, equity, access and emerging, that's what Winter4Kids is. It's not something we do, so today we represent an example and a model for an environment that is culturally based on equity and access. Schone: Somebody asked me yesterday, how do you recruit people for a diverse company? I don't think that you recruit people, I think you promote the culture that is first and foremost, give everybody access to it, ensure that when they are in that culture that there's equity, that there's fairness across that and that you make it a safe place for people to contribute to the mission and to be themselves. We have a very interesting makeup of a leadership team and I didn't even think about this that, you know, of the 12 to 15 leaders on the management team, seven are female, three are male, four African Americans, we have Latinx. So that wasn't the plan, it happened that way because we are that way. So the question that I have now, is diversity, equity and inclusion a committee or is it a culture? Is it something that you talk about around the table or it's something that is a way of life? I think that it's both, it starts with the talking around the table but it needs to be the way things are, not something that you do. Christian: Yep. I think LeBron hit the nail on the head when he asked about this Black Lives Matter movement. I don't know what the question was but that was the phrase that many use, he said it's not a movement, it's a way of life and this is what... And I think that goes with the community versus culture issues that we have now. A lot of people just, whether it's businesses, companies, institutions giving us something to chase the dog's tail. Something to keep us busy and that sort of community thing versus culture thing where we want to feel this everywhere we go. Whether it's in the classroom, talking about school, whether it's in classroom with my classmates, professors, whether it's in the dorms, at the cafeteria, in the party, we want to feel included everywhere we go. We want to equality, equity everywhere we go not just where the legislation thinks it matters the most or where they think we're only arguing for or fighting for. It's everywhere we go. That's the culture right there. Schone: I agree with that. So now, I have made myself available to my colleagues who are White or of any background, to answer any questions they might have, without fear of judgment and an example is, I had one of my colleagues in the industry who's a publisher of a magazine ask me, and before they asked it, they said I'm a little bit ashamed, I'm sorry if this is uncomfortable, I just want to, and hopefully it's all right. And they asked me, Schone do I call you Black, African American or person of color. And I felt bad because that's where we've gotten to right? Is that, there are individuals out there who don't know what to say and don't know how to say it or who to and I say to them look, anyone of them work for me, because I go to intention. Schone: So if your intentions are good and you just want to understand, to be sensitive to me, then that's okay. I have to ask that about my colleagues who are Hispanic because now I don't know if I say Latino, Latina or Latinx. And I just learned that Latinx is the gender neutral side. The best way for me to ask and say which way, if I'm going to speak about race, which way works for you? I don't know if you know this movie, did you ever see Remember the Titans? Christian: That's my favorite movie, come on now. Schone: That is my favorite. Well, I want you to look up and watch the part of the obituary that was written in... I believe Jones died maybe about 10 years ago, whatever. But what Boone said about him and said about how they got together and I realize that the reason why I have hope is that I believe that we've created a culture where we can have conversations. I've had some people challenge me about the N word. About, have I ever been called that and I go yes even at Winter4Kids, not to my face but the question that some have is, how come on one hand the N word is a bad word right, and on the other hand it's used in music, right? And I said that's a courageous question for you to ask. I would say that it goes back to intentions again. When a person whose White used that word, it was meant to be demeaning, denigrating and to put us in our place. Schone: Within the cultural music, it has different connotations. It is coming from a different place and while the word is bad, which I agree that it doesn't have any real use today, that intentions dictate how things are received. Christian: I think you must have remembered the times... I think there are two things that bring us together, unfortunately one of them has been taken away from us this year because of COVID-19, and that's sports and music and we would just get together like the way we do when we're at concerts, when we're at sporting events and I think the world would be a lot... a way better place, a lot better. Schone: I think it will be. I think whatever happens coming out of this, we're going to be different. We're going to look at a lot of things differently, we're going to look at each other differently and not to minimize the trauma and the pain that COVID-19 and the race issues are causing us. It's going to be better, coming out the other side. I just hope it gets better, quicker. Christian: All this great work, that you've done for your communities, especially out there in Vernon, New Jersey. How do you think the Holy Cross mission statement, men and women for and with others, has helped you do what you do today? Schone: I actually think I live it, maybe. I don't know if I thought about it that way but I think intentionally I've been wired to do it that way and I think that the service of others right, is intentional. The responsibility to make a difference is purposeful and the opportunity to deliver on that mission is to be embraced and not only just embraced, but you need to not only feel it, you have to do it and you have to be it. And you could do all those things and live in this world and be successful and you don't have to sacrifice anything except for those things that are negative to do it. Christian: I think it's important for me to use this platform that I have right now to mention a concern that a lot of my friends have had with their mission statement. They feel as if some people are not included, when we just say men and women and when we mention others it makes people feel like us as the Holy Cross community is on top almost and we are regarding to other people that don't identify as or with the Holy Cross community as other, in a negative connotation. From my perspective and I'm pretty sure from yours and from a lot of people that I know, that's not the case. We want to include everyone and we try our best to include everyone and when we mean with others we do mean us as Holy Cross students and alumni, helping those who haven't sat on the Hill, who haven't experienced that Holy Cross lifestyle. And we are trying to help our communities, whether it's back home, whether its different schools, communities that we've never been to and all types of communities, all types of places in our life. Christian: So I just wanted to I just wanted to take this time to mention that. I think that is very important and maybe we may rephrase this mission statement, and I think that's just a legislative thing that we spoke about, but the culture thing is the most important thing and I think that's something that you are working on and I applaud you for that. So many other alumni are working on as well. Schone: I think that this brings up a good point, that language limits who we are and how we embrace what we does not. I hate labels, because when you define somebody by a label, you are either restricting them or you're limiting some parts of them. So I don't like labels because I don't like being in a box. I am not sure that I want to be... I'm not predictable and so you're right, I think language will evolve. I do think that the intention is to be as broad as possible but isn't that up to us as we take the mission and go forward with it, that our interpretation of that mission and what we do with that is what dictates how it’s received. So yeah, I think that its all of us at the Holy Cross community embracing everybody and what we do in the context of not just service but equity, access and taking the time to get to know each and every one of us as well as we know ourselves. Christian: Right. Has there been a mission statement that you came up for yourself or that you got from someone? That helps you do what you do now. That you live by today. Schone: Unimaginable dreams, inevitable opportunities. Christian: I should have known that. That's the motto for Winter4Kids, for those that don't know. Schone: But just think about that, in the context of where you are today and it’s tough to imagine the unimaginable right? But that's really what dreams are. And I really believe that I'm a living example of being able to do really, really good things most of the time and learning from the things I don't do so well to be able to create and support opportunities for others. Christian: Well Schone, I've got good news and bad news for you. Schone: Ohh oh. Christian: What do you want first? Schone: Give me the bad news. Christian: The bad news is that we're reaching the end of our episode. Schone: Wow okay. Christian: And the good news is we're reaching the end of our episode because it's the fun part, the speed run. So I'm just going to ask you some quick questions and I just want the quickest answers you come up... And if I ask why, the first thing that comes up to your mind. Schone: Okay. Christian: So, you ready? Schone: Yes. Christian: Favorite year at HC and why? Schone: '71. Christian: Is there a reason why? Schone: The reason why is, I got to make the varsity basketball team. When I looked at the list and I had made the team. Christian: Ah cool. Favorite dorm? Schone: Beaven. Christian: Favorite roommate? Schone: Bob Tomlinson. Christian: Saturday night, place to go? Schone: Wellesley. Christian: Three things to change about Holy Cross? Schone: There things to change about Holy Cross? The basketball teams record, that's number one. I'd like to see more interaction across cultures and let me explain, I know this is a short answer, you want a short answer but homecoming weekend, when you have the multicultural event, I'd much rather see that at the Hoval rather than down at the quad. And I'd like to see more Black students as part of the student body. Christian: Okay. Favorite sport? Schone: That I participated in or that I watched? Christian: Either or, it doesn't matter. Schone: My favorite sport actually happens to be basketball. The favorite that's to watch and the Warriors. The favorite thing I like to do is first track skiing, morning gloom slope with music. Christian: Okay. Besides skiing, favorite winter sport? Schone: Besides skiing, favorite winter sport? Football. Christian: Okay. Celebrity you admired growing up? Schone: Muhammad Ali. Christian: Okay. Favorite city to visit? Schone: Amsterdam. Christian: The least favorite job that you had? Schone: Working at UPS when I was at Holy Cross. Christian: Okay. Food to most likely make you cheat on your diet? Schone: Wings. Christian: If you could, and you could why you can't. If you could, five of those you'd invite to Winter4Kids, dead or alive, to ski? Schone: I'd love to invite to my mother and my father, who had never been able to see me accomplish this. Denzel, Martin Luther King, Steph Currie- Christian: Last one, filling in the blank. Schone Malliet is? Schone: Grateful. Christian: Well, Mr. Schone Malliet, thank you very much for taking this time to do this episode with me, it was a great one. I hope the listeners take a lot of things from this. Maura: That's our show. I hope you enjoyed hearing about just one of the many ways that Holy Cross alumni have been inspired by the mission to be men and women, for and with other. A special thanks to today's guest and everyone at Holy Cross who has contributed to making this podcast a reality. If you or someone you know would like to be featured on this podcast, please send us an email at alumnicareers@holycross.edu. If you like what you hear, then please leave us a review. This podcast is brought to you by the office of the alumni relations at the College of the Holy Cross. You can subscribe for future episodes, wherever you find your podcasts. I'm your host, Maura Sweeney and this is Mission-Driven. In the words of St. Ignatius of Loyola, now go forth and set the world on fire. --- Theme music composed by Scott Holmes, courtesy of freemusicarchive.org.

To believe Jesus is the Christ is to acknowledge that he is not only King of kings and Lord of lords, but is your king as well. And since he is your king, he deserves your loyalty.But sometimes it is difficult to maintain our devotion. When are the times your loyalty to King Jesus is tested? When is it hard for you to be a Christian?It’s during those times that your loyalty will either be found wanting or proven true.

Does the experience of evil and suffering have any meaning for a Christian? It does if we understand Romans 8:28-30. Listen to today's episode as Jay and George discuss this text and the implications for believers. ***Be Sure to Subscribe on iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or Podbean***Conformed to Christ aims to engage the mind, affect the heart, and call people to follow Christ. Additionally, our aim is to introduce and explain passages of Scripture and difficult theological doctrines in a down-to-earth and easy-to-grasp manner. Theology and the Bible should impact your life and our goal is that we might play a small part in seeing that happen.

Yes, as I was reflecting on what life was like / is like living with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder I realized that there are just as many pros as there are cons. Trust me, this was just ask shocking to me, too. Today, as part of mental health awareness month, I wanted to highlight the pros. Below is a list of my reflections for both sides: Cons: It made me feel trapped and fearful It made me have a broken record in my brain replaying negative thoughts It made me sabotage relationships It made me ruminate It gave me intrusive thoughts that made me question my sanity It made me obsessed with religion and trying to be the perfect Christian It made me crave assurance It’s kept me stuck within my business It made me experience some of the worst panic attacks of my life Pros: It’s made me a more empathetic person It’s made me more introspective It helped keep me out of trouble It’s made me have more resilience It’s turned me into a fighter It’s made me ask myself lots of questions to gain awareness & ultimately confidence It’s made me be more truthful It’s helped me stick with my workouts because they’re real time and I am holding myself more accountable not to miss a day It’s made me more prepared to cope with things like COVID-19, periods of time filled with uncertainty As I shared in this episode, I'm a Certified Personal Development Coach and I empower women to develop & strengthen self-confidence in their personal lives, careers, and relationships. I offer 1:1 coaching, group coaching, and workshops. Feel free to check out my (NEW!!) website www.CoachLisy.com for more information. And if you're looking to join a network of wellness entrepreneurs who are open to collaboration, feel free to join here: https://www.coachlisy.com/group/wellness-entrepreneurs-open-to-collaboration/discussion --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/foundfamily/message

In this episode, we give you seven practical tips to help equip your kids to stand strong in their faith in an uncertain world. We must model and teach assuming virtue in others, especially when in conflict. If our kids are going to be effective for the Gospel when they are older, they must experience loving others well in your home first. This is a must-listen for parents with kids of all ages.

Youth Pastor Zack Jernigan shares a message on how "hidden sin festers, but exposed sin can heal." Out of 2nd Samuel 11 + 12, part of a 3-week series called “The Boys”. From Collective on Wednesday night, May 6th, 2020. ***Follow***Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mvmtyouth/ Snapchat: https://www.snapchat.com/add/mvmt-youthFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Mvmt-youth-2...***Learn More***Website: https://www.mvmtyouth.com/Camp At The Peak: https://www.mvmtyouth.com/campWestside Baptist: https://westsidebaptist.org/

The book of Galatians has also been referred to as the “Declaration of Independence for every Christian”•It is our declaration of Freedom!•There is freedom in ChristFreedom to be who we have been called to be by Christ•Now freedom is not a license to sin, but it is a power that has been given to actually overcome•We have been set free from the bondage of sinSupport the show (https://www.ccsrv.org/donate)

The book of Galatians has also been referred to as the “Declaration of Independence for every Christian”•It is our declaration of Freedom!•There is freedom in ChristFreedom to be who we have been called to be by Christ•Now freedom is not a license to sin, but it is a power that has been given to actually overcome•We have been set free from the bondage of sinSupport the show (https://www.ccsrv.org/donate)

"A lot of us have been taught to think of a Christian as one who has prayed a prayer, confessed their sin, asked Jesus to be in their heart. That kind of thinking makes the rest of the Bible's teaching optional, as least as far as being a Christian is concerned." Is that how you were taught to be a Christian? It's not wrong, but it's not entirely right either. Jesus calls us to follow him. Listen to Learning to Follow Jesus (https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/podcast-series/how-to-follow-jesus/) . Interested in more content like this? Listen to this episode on How to Become a Christian (https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/podcasts/how-to-become-a-christian-learning-to-follow-jesus-luke/) . To learn more, visit our Twitter (https://twitter.com/thecrossingcomo) @TheCrossingCOMO.   Outline 0:20 - Babylon Bee article (https://babylonbee.com/news/bible-lacking-sinners-prayer-returned-full-refund) 1:00 - Myth of magical prayer vs. Jesus's calling 2:55 - Disciples vs. Christians 3:05 - Acts 11.26 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+11.26&version=NIV) 3:50 - Luke 6.40 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A40&version=NIV) 4:05 - Luke 9.23-24 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9.23-24&version=NIV) 5:20 - The opposite conclusion and why it's wrong 6:45 - Subscribe. Rate. Share.   Social Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCrossingCOMO (https://www.facebook.com/TheCrossingCOMO) Instagram: https://www.facebook.com/TheCrossingCOMO (https://www.facebook.com/TheCrossingCOMO) Twitter: https://twitter.com/thecrossingcomo (https://twitter.com/thecrossingcomo)   Passages Acts 11.26: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+11.26&version=NIV (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+11.26&version=NIV) Luke 6.40: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A40&version=NIV (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+6%3A40&version=NIV) Luke 9.23-24: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9.23-24&version=NIV (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+9.23-24&version=NIV)   References Babylon Bee article ("Bible Lacking Sinner's Prayer Returned For Full Refund"): https://babylonbee.com/news/bible-lacking-sinners-prayer-returned-full-refund (https://babylonbee.com/news/bible-lacking-sinners-prayer-returned-full-refund)   Resources Sacra Pagina: The Gospel of Luke Commentary by Luke Timothy Johnson: https://www.amazon.com/Sacra-Pagina-Gospel-Timothy-Johnson/dp/0814659667/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=sacra+pagina+luke&qid=1577984288&s=books&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Sacra-Pagina-Gospel-Timothy-Johnson/dp/0814659667/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=sacra+pagina+luke&qid=1577984288&s=books&sr=1-1) The Gospel According to Luke by James Edwards: https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-according-Pillar-Testament-Commentary-ebook/dp/B00WIVFQ1C (https://www.amazon.com/Gospel-according-Pillar-Testament-Commentary-ebook/dp/B00WIVFQ1C)   Related How to Become a Christian: https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/podcasts/how-to-become-a-christian-learning-to-follow-jesus-luke/ (https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/podcasts/how-to-become-a-christian-learning-to-follow-jesus-luke/) Learning to Follow Jesus: https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/podcast-series/how-to-follow-jesus/ (https://www.thecrossingchurch.com/podcast-series/how-to-follow-jesus/) Support this podcast

In this episode, Christian Haynes '20 interviews Che Anderson '11 about his work supporting public art, and how his Holy Cross experience inspired him to make his mark on the City of Worcester. Recorded November 20, 2019 --- Transcript Ché: If at 23, 24, 25 you find something that's really keeping you up at night, and that's making you wake up early in the morning, go pursue that. There's no right or wrong way to do life, we're all just figuring it out. Maura: Welcome to Mission-Driven, where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I'm your host, Maura Sweeney, from the class of 2007, director of Alumni Career Development at Holy Cross. I'm delighted to welcome you to today's show. Maura: In this episode we hear from Ché Anderson from the class of 2011. A New York native, Ché now claims Worcester as home. After making his mark on campus as a co-founder of the Brother to Brother Committee, Ché continues to make a positive impact on the Worcester community as an alumnus. Currently working as deputy cultural development officer for the City of Worcester, Ché was one of the organizers of the POW! WOW! Worcester Mural Festival. First debuting in 2016, POW! WOW! Worcester is an annual week-long festival that has already curated over 130 pieces of public art. For this great work, Ché was named to Worcester Business Journal's 40 Under 40 list in 2018. Maura: Christian Haynes, from the class of 2020, speaks with Ché about how this work came to be. Starting with his childhood in New York City, they speak about the many people and moments that have shaped Ché as a professional and as a leader. Filled with inspiring takeaways, their conversation showcases the power of putting the Holy Cross mission into action in the community. Christian: I'm here with my man, Ché Anderson. Ché: Hello there. Christian: So let's go ahead, it's your boy Christian, you already know what it is. So I'm talking about... I got to bring myself into this. Ché: I hear you, I hear you. Christian: First question, is it Ché or Shae? I know you have people that have known you for about 10, 20 years that still call you Shae. Ché: Yes, they do, my name is Ché Anderson, hard Ch with the accent over the E. I was named after Ernesto Ché Guevara, and oddly I got that name because my grandmother, rest her soul, was a Black Panther and she was a Black Panther from Harlem. And she raised my father strictly in that environment, and so having his first born son, he wanted to give me a name that, from the way I hear it, was powerful but that said, I would cause a little bit of trouble. And initially he wanted to name me Huey after Huey Newton. Ché: And my mother was just like, "No, I don't want that name". So they landed on Ché, because it was unique, and because they both thought that he was a really interesting and powerful figure. And so you could imagine growing up, now 30 years and people going, "Well either you have a lot to live up to", or, "Do you know what he was about or what he did?". And it's like, "yes", I've read every biography and autobiography I can of that person. Christian: That's wow. Did you feel that type of environment, that Black Panther type in your environment growing up, in your household growing up? Ché: I think that... It's funny, my mom was a correction officer, and worked on Rikers Island in New York. Which, for those that don't know, it's an interesting facility, to say the least. Ché: And I think that my mother always, drove home how important it was to be aware of myself and all my situations. Not only what it meant to walk a street, but what it means to walk the street as a black male, and how that can be perceived by different people. And so some of that was in the ideologies and philosophies of those in the Black Panther party, some of those are just growing up as a black person in New York City, and some of that is from my grandmother coming from South Carolina. So I think that, when you have family, all that legacy comes with you in the way that you're raised or brought up, or the different lessons you're taught. Christian: That's a lot. Ché: It is, it's heavy. Christian: It is heavy. I think that's the right word to use. Do you ever ask your mother why correctional officer was like... Ché: Yeah, apparently my mom was trying to figure it out, I think like most people are in life, in their early twenties and I think she knew that there were some really interesting opportunities and good pertinent opportunities in civil service. And for her, she had actually a friend who was taking the exam to be an officer, and so she said, "You know what, good pension, good paying job if I have a family", and she was recently married, "This could be a great fallback for the family". And then lo and behold, nine months into her tenure, that's when she found out she was pregnant with me. And she did it for 22 years, and went again from Rikers, which is one of the most notorious prisons in our country to working at Manhattan Courts, which is a little more relaxed. Ché: But my mom is the toughest person I know. She's a soldier, she's a warrior, but also somehow like the most loving person ever know. Christian: How close were you and your grandmother, from your mother’s side? Ché: Very, My dad actually wasn't really around much growing up. So my mom's side is who I really knew well. And so my grandmother was the one that kind of took care of me while mom was at work, and so she got to hear a lot of my first words, and first things like that. And my grandmother, it's odd, for work, she would actually clean houses, and so I spent a lot of my Saturday and Sunday mornings going with her to affluent people's houses and sitting on couches watching cartoons. Ché: And so it was an interesting dichotomy, growing up in the Amsterdam Projects where I grew up, which public housing, and then going to these affluent Central Park West houses and seeing what it's like to have a doorman, what it's like to have people who are throwing words like sommelier around, and not having any idea what that meant. And having fancy dogs, and having big flat screen TVs before we had that, when we still had the TV with the knob on it. Which was... but again, all that frames kind of who you are as you go up, right? So because of that I think I always felt comfortable everywhere. Because I was able to experience that at an early age, and around all kinds of people. Because I was able to see all sorts of people from, again, the penurious that were struggling, trying to figure it out, to the princely, that were running around throwing thousands of dollars at their kids, or their nieces and nephews. Christian: That's pretty tough, I thought we had a similar background. My mom was cleaning... she was a home attendant, taking care of the elderly. Coming from the Projects, even going to these houses in Bushwick at the time. They weren't the best houses, but they were still houses. And I guess you could say it's similar, from coming from the Projects not really having nothing, to seeing these fish tanks, these bigger TVs, these rooms that, more than one bedroom, more than two bedrooms. These people have a lot more than me, it's not a lot, but it's a lot more than me. And just spending time with my mother like that, I guess that made me more comfortable being in different spaces, like you say. Christian: But I remember the first time I learned about you, hear about you, learn about you, because in class I was into stats, psych stats, and I was on the website, Holy Cross website in a see 40 under 40. So what stood out to me was that title, and it was a black man. So I got to figure out what this is, and I realized he was a Holy Cross alum. I was like, the first person I had- Marcellis. I know you know this man. Ché: Big shout to Marcellis Perkins too. Christian: Of course, he got some questions for you too. I was like, "Who is this man?", He was like, "Yeah, Ché Anderson, yada yada, alumni 2011". And we actually going to meet up pretty soon, I'll come through if you want, and then that was the first time I met up with you at Crossroads. I'm like, "Yeah, he seemed like a cool dude, talk fast". Ché: I do talk fast, sorry about that. Christian: No, you're good, yeah yeah yeah yeah... no but you talk real fast. I was like, "Yeah, he seem like a cool dude", I remember the first time you mentioned... That was the first time you mentioned to me that you had connects with the Pawtucket Red Sox, and then there was a big thing at the time that they were coming from... Ché: From Pawtucket to Worcester. Christian: Yeah to Worcester, I think they made it here right? Ché: Yeah, they are opening day is April, 2021. Christian: Yeah so, baseball was a big thing for me, still is. So I was like, "Yeah, I got to say connect to this man right here". Christian: But I know you got a lot of work with art and street art, so just going back to your childhood or teenage years, whatever, do you remember your first time experiencing that or seeing it and admiring it. Whether it was street art, art, any type of art form? Ché: Yeah, so my mom, when she did have days off, we had to go somewhere, every time. I think that part of her raising me was that she wanted me to experience everything that she couldn't. And that literally meant everything. Some Saturdays we would just go for a walk and we'd walk Central Park and walk down Fifth Avenue and just window shop, but it was cool to just see all the different things people were getting, and FAO Schwarz, which was down on 59th and then Fifth Avenue, the toy store from Big with the big piano and we'd go in there, and I'd inevitably convinced her to get me like a Ninja Turtle or something. But I had to see it, it was this big experience and we'd go to the American Museum of Natural History, or we go to the Guggenheim. And often I was way too young to really comprehend it, but my mom tried to make sure I saw everything. And I think that that... Those are some of my earliest memories experiencing art. And I remember walking through parts of Harlem, or parts of Brooklyn, or lower Manhattan, and you see graffiti and places but you're kind of fed this narrative that that's bad, that's desolate areas, you don't want that.   And oddly, it probably wasn't until seven or so years ago that I had this experience, and it's actually what led me on this path that I thought was really interesting. I was in Worcester, Post grad, living in a city I was sort of familiar with, but I didn't get off the Hill as much as I probably should have while I was a student. And the artist Banksy, from London, one of the most prominent public artists living today in modern history was doing a residency in New York City.   And my friends were running around taking pictures and posting them on Instagram, and I needed a new cool profile pic so I ran down to New York and I was blown away by how many people were traveling to New York City to catch a glimpse of this artwork. I came from Massachusetts, people were coming from Connecticut, and from Jersey, and growing up in New York, and you get this, quite often you stayed in your borough.   If you didn't have to travel to see family or a close friend that lives somewhere else. If you were from Manhattan, you stayed in Manhattan. If you were from Harlem, which is part of Manhattan, but you stayed in Harlem and that was it. And so people were coming from Staten Island taking the ferry to look at this artwork and I said, "This is awesome, where else is this happening?"   And eventually I started researching, and I learned about Wynwood, and more about what's happening in Bushwick, Brooklyn, and Philadelphia has this mural arts program that's been changing the city since the 1970's and I was like, "Hey, Worcester could do this, we have the wall space for sure, but we have a creative community, we've always kind of been an alternative community, let's see where it goes". And that was kind of it from there, it took off.   But it's one of those things where it's... I tell people, "You grew up in New York City and you don't really appreciate growing up in New York City until you leave New York City".   You know what I mean? You don't realize how many things you have at your fingertips, and how alive the city is, and how active it is, until you're at a city that closes down at midnight and you're just like, "What's going on?" Christian: I'd say 10 o'clock. Ché: Or until you're at a place and you're like, "Aw man, I can't sleep and I'm starving", but there's no bodega. Or you're like, "Aw man, I really want a Uber or taxi", and it's like, "No, there are none in the area right now, it's too late". And so it's not lost on me that what really made me appreciate being a New Yorker was not living in New York, and having to sort of figure out where to find the pockets that made me feel like I was home. Christian: I would've thought that you done a lot of research about graffiti, especially in the 80's in New York. Ché: Oh yeah, of course, at this point I have, but growing up, no. And I tell people this all the time, I think that people see 40 under 40, I got this award for this public art project that I'm always taking pictures with murals and I'm doing talks, and stuff about murals... That's all in the last 10 years. I didn't study that, I'm not classically trained in any of that. There are people that'll bring up famous artists to me, from different movements, and I'm just like, "Nope, no idea what you're talking about". But it goes to a point of, people have their belief of a right way to do something, and that you have to be the biggest scholar and that. You don't, like you can just be passionate about something, you could really like something and find your niche in that world.   And that's what it is for me. I appreciate the culture, I respect it, I've learned my history on it. So I'm not just someone that's a culture vulture that came in and was like, "I'm going to do this thing". No, I've sat with graffiti writers, I've had to hold some graffiti writers names close to the vest because no one needs to know that. But the fact of the matter is that as a person who appreciates neo-contemporary art, which is just the really fancy way of saying street art or graffiti, I was able to come humbly to a table and have a seat at it now, and have just open conversation.   And so this is a person who... I want it to be a lawyer, I was a poli- sci major, I interned with the Manhattan DA for seven years, that was it for me. And so to go from that, to this sort of hobby that's become a big part of my now job and everything else, I think is a testament to the fact that if at 23, 24, 25 you find something that's really keeping you up at night, and that's making you wake up early in the morning, go pursue that. There's no right or wrong way to do life, we're all just figuring it out. Christian: Yeah. You mentioned neo... What is it? Ché: Oh, neo-contemporary art. It's a recently used, made up term, to allow people to contextualize what street art is. Street art has this sort of trivial, kind of fun sound to it, but if I talk to you about Renaissance art, you're like, "Oh wow, that's Renaissance art". Or if I mention modern art you're, "Oh my God, that's modern".   So people started calling street art neo-contemporary, new-age contemporary art, because you're now having people that have taken artwork and put it outside to make it public, and now they're taking that same aesthetic and bring it back inside some museums, and galleries, and spaces like that. So it's just a newly coined term to make it sound more official. Christian: Sounds like... So I'm going to dance class right now, and it sounds like, what they deal with B-boy and B-girl, and turn it into break dance, it's a commercialize it. Do you think it's the same? Ché: It's similar, I think that there are... the sad reality of it is that there are certain cultural norms that different people experience, and to make the masses feel comfortable with it, it becomes a different thing.   It's like when you talk about hip hop versus rap, there's none of this. But for some people, it's like, "Well, hip hop is a bit more nuanced, and safe, and rap is grungy and dirty and raw", and I tell people when it comes to street art and graffiti and such, I don't see a difference.   I think that they are synonyms, it's semantics. Both are generally painted with spray paint, outdoor. The difference is that one tends to be formalized and legal, and one's illegal. But if I paint a beautiful portrait of Dr. King on a wall, but I do it illegally, but it's gorgeous. It's perfect rendering, is that graffiti or is that street art? If I pay you $2,000 to paint your name on my wall, is that graffiti or street...   We get too deep into the weeds of it. Sometimes you got to just appreciate it. Again, I've seen some of the most beautiful art I've seen, bar none, gallery, museums included, online included. I've seen some gorgeous things people do with letters. And you think about typography in general, and how lettering, and hand lettering, and hand scripting, and hand styling has grown right from the clothes you wear, and the person who chose that font, to the way you type. There's a certain nuance to that.   And I've seen some of the best done publicly, by just graffiti writers. But that's just me. Christian: I think you did mention this, but do you make art yourself? Any type of art? Singing doesn't count cause you say you can't sing. Ché: Ow man, I can sing, just not well is what I'm saying. I don't do visual art.   But here's a fun fact that most people don't know about me. I write poetry. I have since I was younger. I don't perform it, I don't really share it, but I do. I've always done that, it's been what I turned to when I'm really stressed out or something, I write down a poem about something. And it's one of the main reasons why when I was on campus, and we had this organization called the Brother to Brother committee, we did this poem Black Man Rising, and we did it. A big part of doing that was that... it was like my outlet to actually perform some semblance of poetry. So no, I don't draw or anything. Christian: But you mentioned the Brother to Brother committee. Ché: Yeah. Christian: Turn into the Male Involvement Coalition, which I am the co-chair of. And we just performed Black Man Rising in The Griot. Did you hear about that? Ché: I did not hear about this particular, no I didn't. Christian: I do have a video I'll show you after. Ché: I need that, I need to see it. Christian: And we did perform it in my sophomore year at BSU fashion show at Mechanics Hall. Ché: Do you kick it off? Christian: Yeah. Ché: Are you the, "Look at yourself again. Alright... alright... You're not a Black Man Falling, You're a Black Man Rising, by James H. Chapman. Christian: We switched it up, it was dedicated to Rob Jones. Ché: Okay. All right, I hear you. Christian: It was a cool experience, and I just found out that you were the founding members of Brother to Brother committee. So talk to me about that and how it was back then. Ché: So when I was a sophomore, there was a conference members of the camps were invited to, and it was called the CHAS conference, the coalition for higher achievement and success... consortium for higher achievement success. And they had one that was specific to black and brown males. And so a group of us attended it, and were so uplifted at Skidmore by the people we're hearing from.   I believe at Skidmore, by the people we were hearing from and hearing new initiatives at other colleges and campuses, when we came back to campus, we ended up just meeting a bunch of times and discussing some of the issues that were affecting people in our communities. As we were talking about doing things inevitably, we hit a point where we started doing events but we weren't a recognized student organization. We were just a bunch of students doing these things that having talks, having dialogues, facilitating conversations and we were just dynamic. You had students that wanted to be architects, that wanted to be lawyers or wanted to be doctors that were athletes, that were thespians. So we realized we kind of had something and said, "Okay, we could formalize this in RSO." There was Jeff Harris, who was class of 2012 went to high school with me and there were these two things we did in high school.   One was a daily affirmation and the other one was Black Men Rising that Jeff performed. So he introduced that to the campus and that became our calling card for this group. Then Antonio Willis-Berry, he was 2013, there was this Shawn whose last name is escaping me, but he was class of 2013, Jose Paz, who was class of 2012. We just had this group. Then there was a gentleman named Tyrone Billingsly who was kind of the elder statesman of our group along with Eric Collazo. The two of them didn't want a role officially. They were happy being like ex-official members but just guiding us because they'd been here longer. So when we finally got recognized, I was a senior advisor and Jeff was one of the co-chairs and we sort of just became this network of men on this campus that just wanted to talk about issues that impacted or afflicted us or just talk about uplifting things that were happening in the community, talk about music, eat some good food.   It really was his brotherhood that got developed. It's funny because initially, the way I became the Brother To Brother Committee is it started out as a Black and Brown Coalition, which sounded militant for some people, which we were cool with. But we said, "You know what? If indeed, we want to open this up, there's an opportunity," and we realized, You know what? There were folks on campus who weren't Black or Brown that were extreme allies, that were on the front lines for all these conversations and so we shouldn't exclude them like that. They're our brothers in arms. To be honest, there were women on campus who were willing to pick up arms, so to speak, and stand on those front lines and protest and argue with us in the same way. So there was this sort of overarching brotherhood, sisterhood, familial aspect of it.   But it all started with this group of brothers. So that was kind of that. What was crazy is, in the very first year as a recognized student organization, we have this picture that I love of ... there were five of us and we held seven awards from the SGA award ceremony, three for the organization and four for individual members of the organization. I was like, "This has to be a record for a first-year organization." It felt great to sort of have to prove why we belonged and then show like with our work that we were here just to make the campus a community, like a true community, which is wild.   Honestly, I remember the first time you told me about ... first of all I heard about the Men Involvement, the MIC. I was just like, "That sounds familiar. What happened to the BBC in it?" I think Rob Jones was just like, "Oh yeah. It kind of became this other group." I remember meeting you and Marcellis and some other brothers and I was like, "I couldn't have hoped for anything better." Part of it, it makes you sad. You're like, "Wow, they have some of the same conversations we had almost a decade ago." You wonder if that's sort of just the nature of being on a campus, having new students and you're always onboarding new people. But to see that there were people here who were dedicated and you know what I mean? It makes me happy to like sit across from you and be like, "Oh man, this is me 10 years ago." Christian: I appreciate that. I really do. I think that's the reason why we ended up calling it MIC because they were people who didn't identify as being Black or Brown, but who had the same struggles that we have as males and that's why we're open to any male. Our meetings are open to anybody. There are a lot of people who want to help us, who feel like even if they don't agree with some of the things that we believe in, they want us to know that. I think that results into a great dialogue, great conversations and us doing things on campus to made the campus better, so yeah. Ché: So Black Man Rising was super controversial the first time we did it. Christian: Why? Ché: Because effectively, you had this group of ... and our first group that did Black Men Rising were Jeff Harris, 2012, who played basketball, Freddie Santana, who's Puerto Rican, from New York, my year, 2011. Mudiaga Ohimor, who my year as well. Mud was 250, 6' 8". He was a big dude. Jonathan St. Firmin who was another New York guy who we know. Jonathan is probably like 5' 9" and if he's taller than 5' 9" and he's listening, I'm sorry Jonathan, but about 5' 9" to me, probably like 150, like a smaller dude and then myself. So you had this interesting range of gentlemen. Some were quieter, some were bigger, into parties. Some were athletes, some weren't, but you had this sort of force of effectively militant looking men talking about the powers of a Black man on a predominantly White campus.   So people were like, "You know what? This may not be the best thing for us, where we come off as too aggressive." We were just like, "Us? Aggressive? We're going to do it anyway. We're going to do it anyway." So we did. There were people inside our group, there were people inside the administration who were kind of like, "You know, this could not go the right way." We said, "There's something to speaking your truth that's important. This is what we experience and maybe we have a dialogue around that afterwards." But we did it and we got a standing ovation and organizations around Worcester asked us to come off campus and perform it, because it was something that was unique at the time for this group that you may not always see together kind of speaking truth to power, if you will. So yeah man, it was something. Christian: I feel that, no, I definitely feel that. I remember first being introduced to it ... My first year as the MIC freshman and sophomore year it was, I'll say, very slow. Not a lot of people attended. But like myself personally, I didn't feel as if it was that important. I wasn't into this, who I am now, into this like Black man power, being a Black man, especially on this campus. I wasn't really into that. I was just trying to go through school, get my degree, all that stuff, whatever. But then I really talked to Marcellis and other people, they introduced me to that. Like the importance of being a Black man. Christian: I know even coming from New York, the only thing I had to worry about was the police, because there wasn't a lot of White people that I really had to worry about. I came from a really mixed culture, like everybody from every ... It's New York. You know what I'm saying? You see everybody. But just being on campus was a different vibe and I didn't get that notion until sophomore year. Towards the end of sophomore year, that's when I would ... actually, towards the end of sophomore year, second semester after we did Black Man Rising I saw the power that we had. I saw the audience that we had, the support that we had. It opened my eyes and it was just like, "Damn. We do got power." Ché: You do. Christian: When you talk about it being controversial now, it will make me do it even more. I think freshman year and sophomore year, beginning of sophomore year I was like, "Hey, it was controversial. Let me not ... " Ché: It takes time to, I think, part of the collegiate experience, particularly if you're a student of color or someone whose English wasn't their first language or something to that effect there's the natural onboarding, right? You're 18, 17, 19 years old trying to figure out what you're going to do for the rest of your life. Trying to make it to 8:30 classes when everyone knows they suck. Christian: Mine was actually pretty good. Ché: Well lucky you, I guess, but you have that experience and then it's how do you socialize? How do you meet people? How do you make friends? How do you figure out who you are? Who are you, right? Whose are you? How do you look? How do you dress? What do you comfortable in? There was a guy when I was at Holy Cross named Tom, everyone called him Pajama Pants Tom. Pajama Pants Tom literally wore pajama pants to everything. He worked at Kimball. He wore them to class. Pajama Pants Tom had a 4.0 and took six classes every semester from the time he was a first-year student. He audited classes because he just wanted to learn more. I think he got a Fulbright, went abroad, came back with long hair. Looked just like Jesus. It was amazing. Pajamas Pants Tom was one of the smartest people I ever met.   But if you looked at him and saw this kid walking into class in the winter in pajama pants and flip flops, you're like, "What's wrong with this person?" but he was comfortable with himself early on and so that didn't matter. So I think that some get there earlier but there's that dynamic of just like, "I'm just trying to get these A's and go on." But also real quick, I just have to shout out Shawn Johnson because I realized his last name was Johnson, as well as Matt Harper and Darien and Jose Paz and Jeremiah Gonzalez.   Darien Henry was actually our freshmen apprentice, our first year student who was part of the group. The reason why I had to shout them out the same way that Eric and Tyrone was, because when I say it was a brotherhood, like I meant that, right? Like Lance Williams, like there are people who I don't see all the time, but if ever something happened, if every one of them had a big thing, Tony Zelayandia, that's family. It really is. So from the time that we were 20, 21, 19 years old to now, I'm 30 it is intriguing to me to think I'm on campus and we started this thing here and now people are going to be class 2023 they're on campus and people are still joining this thing. Man, that's something. Christian: Yeah, we definitely got it. We got freshmen really into it. It's just the legacy that you have and you see it grow and grow and it's just amazing. I'm glad to be a part of that legacy. MIC... Brother to Brother... It's a brotherhood that's kind of... so I notice... so I read that your mother played a big part in you going to Holy Cross, right? Ché: Yeah. Man. Christian: I feel like the question is asked a lot, what made you go to Holy Cross? What made you stay at Holy Cross? Ché: That's a good question. When I was deciding where I wanted to go, being the first in my, I think, semi-extended family to go to college, my mom, who was like, "I have to do everything right with her firstborn," hit a point where she said, "You know. You need to go to Harvard." I was just like, "You're right. I should go to Harvard." So we looked at schools, mainly looked at Ivy league schools, but I was going to a Jesuit high school in Harlem, New York. Big shout out to Rice High School. Christian: Wait, what's the name of it? Ché: Rice High School. Christian: Right. I feel like I know people from there but it's not there anymore. Ché: Kemba Walker- Christian: Right. Okay. He's not there anymore. Ché: ... plays for the Boston Celtics went to Rice High School. But no, my high school is not there anymore, which is sad. It's sad. The bodega across street's still there. Christian: It's still there. Ché: Rice not there. But I was looking at a lot of Ivy league schools. My mom, wanted me to look at Morehouse because she thought there was something special about being, again, around other men who look like me and maybe had similar struggles or similar situations. Actually, a brother who was at Rice High School said, "You know what I think what would be a great institution for him? College of the Holy Cross." My mom looked into it, saw similarities to my high school. Thankfully, it wasn't an all boys school, all men's college. I did that for four years in high school, but she said, "I think this would be a great space for you. It's not too big. Great academics." At that time I felt that I was an athlete, so she was like, "Maybe you can do something around sports." I did not. I did not while I was here. Christian: We're going to talk about that too. Ché: No. But after talking about it, it actually was my second choice. After all the looking at colleges, I thought I wanted to go to Columbia. For me, I was like, "That's where I'm going, it's 20 blocks from where I grew up. One of my best friends in the world was going there." It was perfect. My mom said, "You need to leave New York." It actually is one of the best decisions she's ever sort of made for me. At the time I was angry, but her thing was so much of my family is in New York and stayed in New York and I needed to see something else. I had to see another part of the world. Oddly enough, it was only four hours away, but I said, "Okay. We'll see Holy Cross. Then if I don't like it, I guess I'll transfer." During my first semester here, I actually was uncomfortable.   I just it was too far and all my friends were back in New York and I was trying to acclimate to the new environment and Worcester wasn't New York City. I remember calling her and saying, "Ma, I need to go back home. I got to transfer to Columbia." She said, "Nope." She said, "Nope. I'm not helping you with any of the tuition, so you do that if you want to." Christian: You're paying for it. Ché: Right and I was just like, "Nope. I'm broke." I think for her it was, "You know what? You got to see this through and at the end of the day, if you don't like it, come back to New York." I find it to be intriguing that now it's been 13 years since I first got to Worcester and I still live here. Now I'm one of the biggest Cheerleaders in the city. But that's because of my mom kind of making me get here and honestly because of the campus, over time, making me fall in love with it. There was a person here before Rob named Boyd Servio-Mariano, Dr. Boyd Servio-Mariano. He's a doctor now, so I got to say that. Doc, which is what I call him, he spotted me as a first year student. There was a competition, a dance contest, during ALANA Student Weekend. Oh yeah, I used to boogie. I used to get down. So I got up on stage and won this dance contest. Christian: You won. Ché: Yeah. Yes I did. Christian: What was the competition? Ché: It was just they played music and you've got the freestyle to it and they played like an old Chris Brown song. It was Run It or something. I won and that was Friday night. Then Saturday night they did a trivia contest for Explore Asia. There was a group called Asia, which was for Asian students or Asian-American students. Christian: It's still here. Ché: So they had an Asian trivia contest and I went up against a kid, Chris Bondoc who actually went to my first high school before I transferred high schools. He's an Asian-American student. We had a trivia contest and I won. Point for me, take that Chris, all these years later. But Doc grabbed me and was just kind of like, "If you come here, you got to come find me." I was like, "All right, older guy. That's strange." Then I do come to campus, I realized because he went to my high school and at the time again, I was a young person with a lot of energy and didn't know all the best places to put it, so I was just running around and going crazy.   He grabbed me up and said, "Hey, you should come to this multicultural peer education group." I was just like, "No, I'm not going to do that. I'm not. I'm sorry." Then the MPEs, received tickets to the Boston Celtics game in Worcester. I said, "Oh, I need tickets to this game." He goes, "Only way to get tickets is if you come to a few meetings." I was just like, "Ah. You got me." Christian: He got you. Ché: So I came to the meetings and I loved it and I loved what they were talking about and I was all for it. then I went to the Celtics game and that was it. I'd inadvertently found myself a mentor. We literally had a conversation this past weekend. That's my guy. But he's another person who worked in the Office of Multicultural Education and picked me up and helped mold me into a productive person. That's what helped keep me at Holy Cross that he introduced me to guys like Tyrone Billingsly and Eric Collazo and other brothers on campus that were doing great things. He kind of forced me into, or some organizations that led to me getting on the BSU board and knowing the infrastructure to help found the Brother To Brother Committee.   He got me involved off campus and working with local junior high schools and high schools and talking to young people off campus and understanding what nonprofits role in developing a city were or an interfacing with a college. He kept me on the right kept me in shape when I stepped out of line, like a big brother would. So really, I think that he's a big part of that. I had somebody to look out for me because honestly, we all have on campus who knows kind of what happens, right? Like do I just spiral out and kind of not go on to do some things I've done. I don't know. So I think that's what kept me. My mom got me here, to be honest and then I had a mentor, I had a big brother who made sure I finished out strong. Christian: You kind of answered my next question. Who you we went to when anything went well or went wrong. Ché: I had some upperclassmen, like I said, Tyrone. I got Lawrence Dickson who play basketball. He's a cool dude. I saw him at the game the other night. Eric Collazo who was my RA my first year, rocky start, but then I was dancing at his wedding. When I say the brotherhood is strong, I mean that. So I think those are the people I turn to. And then there are people younger than me too, right? Like Jeff who wants a high school with me was a guy I roomed with my junior year when he was a sophomore. We had a quad. My first year roommate was my roommate every single year. That's still one of my best friends. If anyone could ever marry him, which, tough order, I'll be his best man. That's that.   Big shout out to Stefan. But I feel like I had this network also and I have to give her a huge shout out. Brianna Turner, who was my year at Holy cross. Licensed Social Worker, dynamic woman. They used to call us the velvet glove and the iron fist because Bri could make something out of nothing. She was just dynamic and got things done. We were the two co-chairs or the leads, I guess, because NPS didn't have co-chairs. So she was very task-oriented, goal-oriented, task master, bullet point list and I was the velvet glove. Like I'm going to make the sound beautiful and like sell it to the masses. It worked well because we both knew our strengths.   She was another person who those days where I was like, "I don't feel like doing this," would pick me up by my collar and be like, "Nah, come on. We got stuff to do. Let's get after it. So I learned a lot about project management as a student here because of Bri. I don't think Bri would even consider that or acknowledge that or call it project management. But she was someone who got me to understand, task management. I took that with sort of the personality that I had and I'm like, that's what helped me become a project manager for the City. Christian: That's fire. So I will have to say my person is Rob Jones. Shout out to Rob Jones. Ché: Big shout out to Rob Jones. Christian: He put me into MIC, put me on to a MIC and kind of like forced me into MIC, in a way. Ché: I see a trend. That was the trend. Christian: I think we all need those people to go to even just to talk to. I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but did you ever feel uncomfortable because of how you looked, or who you ... Christian: ... feel uncomfortable because of how you looked or who you were on campus? Ché: Yeah, I- Christian: Or even, so sorry to cut you off, have you ever felt the impostor syndrome? Ché: Oh, I still feel imposter syndrome now. Yeah. To answer the first part, your question, I am a lot of things. There are a lot of words to describe me, right. But for me, I'm an African American male from New York City, right. I love hip hop and rap music. I love ridiculous movies. I love sports. Some of that is considered stereotypical, right. Expected of me as a six foot three male who looks like me. And I think I struggled with that at first when I got to campus, right. I started listening to a lot more Bruce Springsteen, and Def Leppard, and Poison, and Mötley Crüe, and country music, which I never listened to growing up, but I was like all right, Dixie Chicks is going to be it because I want it to fit in to what a Holy Cross student was, right. I stopped wearing the stuff that I was wearing and started switching up and going, all right. I could wear some khakis and boat shoes. Christian: Right what you're wearing now. Ché: Yeah, but I wear this for work. Don't come at me like that, all right.   Don't do me like that. I have to go in a closet, all right. But honestly, right, I was just like this is what's expected of a Holy Cross student. And I went through that for a year of just why am I wearing these cardigans all the time? Honestly, right. Because that I thought that was ... And then it took me a minute to get comfortable in myself to be like you know what? If you didn't hear the new Gucci Mane album, that's your fault. You're missing out, right. I'm not the one ruined and things. And yeah, I mean I dress like this for work, but in all seriousness, I think that getting back into whatever I felt was appropriate for me and whatever culture I represented, it took a minute, but I got there. And I think that as far as imposter syndrome, I think that was part of it, right. I was trying to acclimate and blend in because I wanted to feel like I was a part of something, not realizing I was already a part of something.   And even now I find myself in some rooms, or on some boards, or on some committees and I walk in and I'm just like I can't believe I'm here. And I think that almost everyone feels. I know famous, well-paid, well-off people that I've got a chance to meet who will confide that they feel like they don't belong in some of the rooms they get, or they feel like they shouldn't have won the awards compared to some of their peers. And I think that's just natural. You know what I mean? I think when you do something extraordinary, quite often you don't expect to do something extraordinary. It happens and you fall into it, and you're like oh my God, here's this thing. And a lot of that is just a team around you. I have a team around me of friends, and coworkers, and confidence, mentors and mentees that will lift me up when I need it. And like, "You did some dope, you did a TED talk. That's great. Enjoy that."   And the ones that will deflate my ego sometimes. They're just like, "You're acting out. Relax. All right, let's not forget the way you dress for work," like you did to me. So I think that's all important to your makeup. A lot of people will say look at your five closest friends and that'll tell you who you are. And I think that that's a really simplistic way to look at it, but the people that you surround yourself with, the people that you spend most of your voluntary time with, that tells you a lot about who you are and who you can be. They're the ones that define some of your limitations, however you may see them, because they're going to limit you or they're going to push you to whatever's next. And so I'm lucky to have some people that I consider good friends or just kind of friends that I can call on and say, "Here's this crazy opportunity." They'll be like, "Go get it. Go after it. And if you don't get it, at least now you know how to do this thing that can maybe get the next opportunity to you." Christian: Told you I was going to get back to that athletic dream that you had, because honestly, all jokes aside, I had the same goal. I was trying to walk on to the baseball team. It didn't work out. I think that was probably the toughest thing I ever had to face all my life. I mean I went from a real high to a real low, and it was just like I was doing things that I probably would've never done before. I felt like I was trying to find myself again because before that happened I was a baseball player. After that, I didn't know who I was or what I was. I was really trying to find myself. I feel like you probably went through the same thing. Ché: Similar. I think that that I was always a nerd first. You know what I mean? I was always an academic, but I love sports and I was okay at them, and so it's funny, I got here. That did not work out, obviously, walking on or anything. And then played club basketball, intramurals. We won intramurals four years, twice in the A league, twice in the B league, a big shot, but we lost the championship. Anthony DiMichele, who's a football player, they beat us. And if I don't mention it, he was going to mention it, or make a comment or something when they posted it, so I just got to put it out there. But I never stopped playing. The school is getting a new field house, right. And that's fine. But back before they destroyed the last field house, my name was on the back board up until two years ago, right. Because we did a dunk contest and I dunked and put my name up with a sticker. That is like the best part of any legacy I got sports-wise on campus, and that was cool. That was cool that it still stayed there. But I think, back to your point, at some point you have to rebrand, just figure out what your thing is, right. It's like if you're a person that threw amazing parties in college, and then you look back and you're like wow, I'm 53 and I still throw these crazy house parties. Not saying that's not fine. If that's your thing, cool. Shout out to all my 53-year-olds throwing parties. But that just wouldn't be what I want to be known for, right. I'd hope that I had accomplished something in my life. And I think that a big part of the growth of your experience through your time on a campus is understanding that you can be dynamic. You don't have to be ... In high school you kind of fall into well, I am an athlete. I'm a great student. I'm the captain of the chess team. You have that thing that defines you. Ché: And I feel like as you grow, you want to be a utility person, you want to be dynamic. You want people to go, "Oh yeah, Christian. I know him from this thing," in one room and then another room go, "Oh right, but he's also really great at this thing." I think that you can be many things to many people, and that's something that it took me a while to learn, but once I did, that was it. I want it to be the Renaissance of all Renaissance. Christian: So I got a lot more questions. So all right, after your Holy Cross years. Oh wait, so a question. What are the untold stories of Holy Cross from your end? Ché: The untold stories of Holy Cross. Christian: Yeah, spilling the beans out here. Ché: There's a trillion untold stories of Holy Cross. Christian: We just need one. Ché: All right. One thing that happened on campus one year was we were talking about the experiences that students of color have on predominant white institutions campus. And we thought about some of the HBCUs and how they have yard shows, right. Stomp shows and such. And so we threw one. So when I was a senior, we figured out ways to finagle some money. Christian: On campus? Ché: On campus. And some of the administrators had contacts because they're a part of historically black Greek letter organizations. And we rented a stage. And right in the Kimball Quad, right down the stairs, the same way they do battle of the bands, we took that stage, we brought out four step teams. We had the Rhythm Nation Steppers also perform. We had people cooking out, right. They were cooking burgers, catfish, fried fish, like they did back down South. People were doing sides and soul food. We have food from the local places. Addie. Do you know Addie? Addie wasn't around at the time, this place called Sweet Teas, but yeah, same kind of feel, right. We even got some food from up at Home Style, right. And we got a microphone, and we had a DJ, and the DJ was playing hip hop, urban music the whole time. And then when there was time for show time, they did their step show, and we had a ball. And then we throw after party afterwards up at Hogan.   And for me it was amazing because for that six-hour period we got to feel like the campus was ours, right. And I think that that, for me, was a beautiful thing because the students came from BC, and from BU, and Becker, and Clark. I mean it was packed, not just Holy Cross students, because other people wanted to see what it'd be like if they also, at their traditionally none necessarily super diverse campus, can come and see just what a mass of us would look like, and what a party for all of us looked like. And it was something. And so I'd say that it was something I wish would've continued after we were gone because I think it is a good reminder of what can happen.   Similar to when Holy Cross played Howard, and Howard brought the band, and the dancers, and everyone up. And then four of us ended up going down to Howard the next weekend to visit. Class one Friday wasn't important that weekend. But we went down to Howard and we got to go to their homecoming, and there were so much love from Howard. They brought us on the field. We got to do the swag surf with everybody, because it was just oh, look at these three students of color who are extending themselves beyond Worcester to come down here to this area. And so that love was something that literally inspired us to bring it back and have this yard show step show. So there's some stuff that doesn't make it through kind of the storytelling pass down components of what we're doing, but is something that one of the things I hang my hat on this campus. Christian: You definitely should. Ché: I was excited. Christian: But transitioning into after college. So MCPHS. Got it. Boom. University. Right. Assistant director of engagement or student affairs? Ché: Student activities, student engagement. Christian: Okay. And initially wanted to get into law and government, but ended up there. Ché: At a college. Christian: Right. If you want to talk about that, you can. Ché: Yeah. Christian: Yeah, go ahead. Ché: Yeah. So I was prelaw, poli-sci. I got to my senior year and realized I don't think I want to be a lawyer anymore. And after my mom stopped crying, she was like, "What are you going to do?" Christian: I mean hold on. Not that there aren't any lawyers coming out of Holy Cross. Did she expect that? Ché: Oh yeah. No, for her, that was it. Christian: Interesting. Ché: My son, the lawyer was how a lot of conversations started. That was a thing. Christian: So Thanksgiving was- Ché: It was awkward. It was awkward, yeah. I only got one serving of mac and cheese, so you know how that goes. But she effectively was just like, "What are you going to do?" And I said, "For the first time in my life, I really don't know, but I do know I'm not moving home. I'm going to figure it out." And I start applying to jobs and looking for opportunities. And one of the former VPs here was Jackie Peterson, who's amazing. She recommended that I apply for the position at MCPHS. And I was staying on campus. I was working at [OME 00:49:20] for the summer, and they paid me a small stipend and then I got to live on campus, so I got a place to stay. And I interviewed for this position that was totally above my punching weight. You know what I mean? I was like I'm not going to get this. And Dean Peterson sends a recommendation and it got me the interview.   And again to that earlier point, right, sometimes you just need that foot in the door to make it happen, and I must've crushed the interview because they pulled me in and said, "Hey, we think you'd be great for this position." Right. First person ever in this position, I get to build and develop a program based on some other things they've been doing, and I said, "Let's do it." And I spent two years there working with students, working for students, engaging with people. The highlight of my time there is I got inducted into Phi Lambda Sigma, which is a pharmacy fraternity, not a pharmacist, but in this pharmacy frat, so shout out to all my brothers and sisters from Phi. Christian: I tried to hold it in. Ché: No, that's cool. That's cool. I got a pin and everything. It's official. But you know what? While there I had a supervisor who was a Dean of students, effectively the de facto leader of campus, named Shuli Xi, and he was so into the idea of me being a statesman. He would always say that to me. Don't be a politician, be a statesman. You want to be a person of and for the people and with the people, not just someone looking to get elected. And because of that, he brought me into his government affairs meeting. He made sure that when there was a consortium of the colleges that, I guess, I served on the student activities one, but also went to some of the student affairs ones in general with people who were in positions way above my own.   When I told him I wanted to join a committee at the chamber of commerce, he said, "Fine, and we'll give you the time off you need when you got to go to those meetings." When I told them I want it to be a Rotarian, and at the time I was one of the youngest Rotarians in the city, part of the Worcester Rotary Club, he said, "Great, we'd love to have MCPHS represented there." And so he supported sort of the dynamism of me going I don't know what I want to do, but I want to do everything and see what's going on. And he was cool with that. Even down to when I went and told him I was leaving to go work for the city, for the government, he wasn't like, "Oh my God," he was just like, "I'm sorry to lose you. But yeah, that's the next step of your life." He looked out for me as a person, which I appreciated so much. And my time there was great. I know a lot of pharmacists now and optometrists. Getting my glasses is super easy. If ever I need acupuncture, I get a discount.   That's sweet. But it was a great step in transitioning from 22 to 24 because I learned how to be in charge of something, right. Student activities was mine. The budget, I managed the Student Government Association, I developed a campus activities board and managed them. And so I learned project management, I learned people management. It was great, and it was a perfect transferable thing for kind of the next step in my career. So it was a kind of unique path. But again, it goes back to there's no right way to do anything. You kind of figure it out as you go. Christian: So I wanted to ask you what do you think has a big impact on a community? Let's say for yourself as an individual working at a desk, law and government. That's my view. Law and government. Or working with the community as you do now? Ché: So the answer I'm going to give you is a cop out answer, I'm going to let you know that, but there's a reason why. And so it is a reason why. Neither one of them, quite honestly, is more important than the other one. I think that they both, and as cliché as it sounds, are both equal for different reasons, right. I think that if you're a person that is solely behind a desk, and let's say you solely work on legal matters, on policy, on development of strategies, that is how you input change. That's how you impact things to a point that they're standardized, right. I can be a great leader and I can say, "You know what? As long as I'm in office, this is going to be the thing," but as soon as I'm out of office, if someone else just comes in and goes, "I don't believe in that," that's done. There's no policy there. There's nothing kind of on paper. There's no legal ramification of it. It only impacts a very small population or people at a certain time.   I think that when it comes to community development, community impact, you want something that has longevity, right. Every parent wants for their kid to not have to struggle the same way they did. I think that that should work as far as generations of constituents and community. I don't want the next you, or me, or whoever to have to fight the same fights I fought. Then what did I do for that time I was around? But I think that you want to be authentic to the place you are, and that there's a component that has to come from the community, right. Holy Cross' whole mission ... I just always say men and women for others. And then it was a shift to men, and women for and with others. And that shift is important, it's imperative, right. It's not about doing things for people, it's about doing things with people, bringing them along, having a conversation, knowing when it's time to lead and when it's time to follow.   And so I think that you got to work with the community to see what the community wants, right. Because you could have a great idea and the community could be like, "We don't care about this right now," right. "We have this other more dire thing." And so you have to know what the thing is before you can implement policy, or structure, or an infrastructure around it. But if you just have people that are, let's say, marching in the street, and fighting the man, and having ideas, but no-one flipped that switch to implement policy, well then you just have angry people, and another population of angry people who are mad that this population's angry, and they are just butting heads and not getting anything. If you just have people sitting in a room being bureaucrats, then nothing actually permeates to the community because you have no idea what the community wants. You're just doing whatever you saw online, or on TV and you think you're doing the best thing, but the two of you come together, that's how change actually happens. That's how real, positive, sustainable change happens.   So I'm a person that hates sitting behind my desk, to be honest. I'm not a fan of it. I'm a person that wants to be around people. And you have those days where you're like I've had nine meetings in a row. I haven't eaten. I've been just taking information in. But if I don't have time to go sit down and write that stuff up, and write those notes, and get it out to other departments to make things happen, or follow up with community partners because I didn't really understand something they said, but I want to do more with it, I'm missing the boat. So I know I just kind of said both, and that's not the answer you want, but I do think that both are equally important. Christian: Yeah, I kind of expect that coming from you. Ché: I mean, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Christian: Yeah. And you did mention the mission statement. Holy Cross mission statement. I feel like you have that before you even got to Holy Cross. Is that true? Ché: Oh yeah. That's the way I was raised. My mom said two things to me every day from the time that I was probably 3 or 4 going off to school, to the time that I was 18. My mother always said, "Hey, listen. Treat everyone the way you want to be treated," which is just basic. But to this day, she still, "Treat everyone the way you want to be treated, and be a leader, not a follower." To the point that when I was 10, she'd say, "Be a leader," and I'd say, "Not a follower. Leave me alone," but I think that for her there was something about making my own decision, and being able to decipher what's right from what's wrong.   And also whether I'm walking into any building, whether it's the person that's the concierge, or the person picking up trash, or the maintenance person, or the CEO of a company, you treat everybody with respect, and you show love to everyone. And I take that even beyond that, right. Whether I'm walking in City Hall and I'm talking to the mayor, or the grounds crew, or a person who might be homeless in front of City Hall, I say, "What's up?" I show love. I don't always have things to help, but I'm always going to give you respect as a human being.   And I think that that's something my mother instilled in me and then it moved on through all my schooling, and the Holy Cross sort of just drove it home a bit. But that's just the way that I was raised. Christian: So you got this mission statement Holy Cross, but then you got your own from back home: be a leader, not a follower. And so was the other one? Ché: Treat everyone the way you want to be treated. Christian: Treat everyone the way you want to be treated. I kind of struggle on that. There was one where treat everyone the way you think they should be treated. Ché: Yep. That one, I think, gets problematic. Christian: Yeah. Ché: I think no one wants me treated poorly, right? Christian: Right. Ché: So the idea is that you reciprocate that. I think treat everyone the way you think they should be treated gets into some real interesting things with some of your own biases or implicit biases or unrecognized issues you may have with some things. I think it's well-intended, but I think that it can lead to some interesting situations. Christian: And the one I never agreed with was treat everybody the same. Ché: Nope, same. I think though, whenever you talk about things like DEI, right, diversity, equity, inclusion, there's a reason that it's equity and not equality, right? There's an image people always paint of if you have three kids looking over a fence and they're different heights and you give them the same size box, that's equality. Everyone has the same stuff. That doesn't help all the kids, right? You want equity. You want the really short kid to have a taller box because then they can all see the game. And I think that in certain pockets of our communities, you're starting to see that. It needs to permeate more, but that equity is important. And that doesn't mean that you give everyone a dollar, right? The millionaire doesn't necessarily need that dollar, but that person that's struggling maybe needs $5 or $10 to make it out. And that's obviously me oversimplifying it, but I think that that's part of that being someone for and with others, you know what I mean? Christian: Yeah. Ché: It's the width to understand what the need is, and then it's the for that if you have more, you got to help out. And I don't mean to get all socialist here. That's not what I'm trying to do, but I'm being honest. Christian: Yeah, for real, bro. Ché: You know what I mean? You have to be realistic and then understanding what the needs are of people, if we're going to truly help and benefit people. Christian: Yeah. So I guess with the combination, if you have a combination with what your mother taught you and what Holy Cross taught you, have you ever came up with a mission statement that drives you to do the work you do now? Ché: The honest truth is that I have a statement that that drives me. It has a swear in it. You can figure out which word that is, that that is the one. I have two things that matter to me that drive everything I do. The first is I want to impact my community. And so that's whatever I have, right: time, talent, treasure, anything. I want to make sure that when all is said and done, whenever my last moment is here, that people said he cared and he did good by us, whatever that community can mean. And that can be my hyperlocal community, that can be my global community, whatever the case is.   The other is do cool stuff. And I think that for me, there's something special about doing projects that people think are interesting and fun. Not that there aren't things that are just that ... like making the microchip is important, and for some people that's super interesting. For the other people it's all right, whatever. But for me, I want to do stuff that people are like, "Aw man, that was awesome. That was an experience. That was a moment." Because creating moments is difficult in life and you hope to have and share a bunch with other people. So if I can combine the two and I can do things that are going to impact and change my community for the better and make sure that stuff is cool, that's what both allows me to rest but also keeps me up at night. You know what I mean? Christian: Yeah, I got you. Ché: Like thinking of how to do it, but then sleeping happy when I make it happen. Christian: Yeah, definitely feel that. What was your favorite project so far? Ché: One of them's a selfish answer, and one's not. I'm going to give you two quick ones. This year as part of the public art project POW! WOW! that I helped bring to Worcester, we were able to paint murals and do workshops and activations with youth in a public housing area of the city of Worcester. And we also painted on the abutting schools and did workshops in the abutting schools to this area. And so we got to work with a population that doesn't necessarily see academic development the same way, that doesn't feel it the same way, that may not even know it's happening, with kids that quite often feel overlooked. And I know, because I was one of those kids growing up.   And so to go over there and have these young people feel a new appreciation for the arts and feel like celebrities are coming around their neighborhood to paint, and getting tutorials from people that have worked with Dis

00:43:37 noChristian,Christianit

What does it mean to be a Christian? It’s a pretty fundamental question which many people trouble answering. Today we begin a new series in which we answer some fundamental aspects of being a Christian. We begin with the most fundamental aspect of all, the Gospel.

What does it mean to be a Christian? It’s a pretty fundamental question which many people trouble answering. Today we begin a new series in which we answer some fundamental aspects of being a Christian. We begin with the most fundamental aspect of all, the Gospel.

Romans 12 marks the final section of the letter. In light of our new identity, Paul now turns to the practical side of things. What does it look like to live as a Christian? It means being a living sacrifice. But what does that look like in our day-to-day life? Paul gives us a simple instruction with tremendous impact: loving others, even those who don't love you back.

Pastor Trice gets us ready for the next season for Relevant Church with a word from Luke about having a Heart for the One.

What does it mean to be a mature Christian? It’s not a simple question. Many people associate spiritual maturity with a lot of theological knowledge. A new believer might only understand the basics of the Gospel but as they spend more time in the church and in the Bible, they will know more, and thereby become more mature. In our passage from Ephesians this week, Paul talks about spiritual maturity in a different way. He gives us a couple of clear indicators of mature faith.

Download this Episode On today's episode, we talk about the shiny object, ways to build your business and modern marketing. Please leave us a review and subscribe for more! reThink Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 24:20 RTRE 64 – Get Off My Lawn: A Guide to Modern Marketing in Real Estate [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Hey everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. Chris here with Christian and Nate. What's going on guys? [Christian]: Hey fellas. [Nathan]: What's up? Another week since last week. And I don't know. You know, the usual grind here. It's… [Christian]: You seem excited to be alive. [Chris]: ow's your CRM coming Nate? [laugter] [Nathan]: It's gonna get done after I get back from Key West next week. So… [Christian]: Let me know. I will walk you through it.  [Chris]: Man. [Nathan]: Work hard play hard boys. Work hard play hard. [Chris]: Must be good to be a real estate agent.  [Nathan]: I guess so. [Christian]: It is good to be an agent.  [Nathan]: I like it. What are we talking about today? [Chris]: Well we were just talking about [censored] marketing in real estate and how not to do it. You were just showing us a sign of a real estate agent that put his sign out in the middle of the Utah backcountry. On a…what was that Nate? [Nathan]: I mean literally it's in bum [censored] Egypt. I mean it was out…I mean literally it's a like a 16 mile hike. Like I mean maybe it's genius because here I am talking about it. Right. I don't know. [Chris]: Good marketing. [Nathan]: You know, I mean I don't know. But literally like it's like who's gonna see this, you know. Like you spent a…I mean what's an average sign cost? Hundred bucks? [Chris]: 47. [Nathan]: What's that? [Chris]: 47. [Nathan]: You use the cheap one.  [Christian]: Depends on how many you buy at a time. [Chris]: That's a temporary sign with the thing in the middle. [Nathan]: OK well either way I feel like this guy throw away 47 dollars. Because I doubt he'll ever go back to get it. But, you know, bad marking. You know, Christian was asking me do I do marketing. No. I mean yes and no. I think we've talked a little bit about that. That Ohio running realtor Instagram is of course my marketing. Even though it has nothing to do with Realty. [Christian]: Your Donut Saturday with your son. That's marketing. [Nathan]: It is but it had…I mean that was actually started before I became an agent. So I'll be at…a ton of people identify me through the donut Saturday. But I don't…I don't…I don't mail stuff out. I don't, you know, I'm not out blasting stuff on social media. I really hate most of that stuff. I think there's…there's more organic ways to do it. and I generally find that there's more bad examples than good examples. [Christian]: Yeah so you're saying that there are different ways to do marketing? [Nathan]: Yes but…let's go…there's…there's many different ways to do marketing. The question is can you do it well? And my answer would be no. Most agents do not do it well. [Christian]: So there's plenty of examples of bad marketing. How do you…how do you not do bad marketing and do good marketing? What is that? What does that mean? What are those standards? [Nathan]: Well I think…OK so I, you know, how do you not do bad marketing? OK well that'd be like saying all right, it's same reason I don't take pictures. Right. I'm not a [censored] photographer. And I'm not in marketing either.  If you have a marketing background, maybe I get it. But most of the stuff I see agents do is poor. It's poor video. It's poor pictures. They're there…I don't know what even the terminology is when they create their own business cards. It's just horrible. Like there's a reason there are people they get paid in marketing. And you should go pay them to do it. I mean you get a better result. I'd rather be really… [Christian]: Do you? Do you Nate? [Nathan]: Yeah I think so absolutely.  [Chris]: So please do not go buy the printable like perforated business cards and then use your word art. And print them. [laughter] [Nathan]: Yeah word art. Yeah right. Well you see a lot of that. You see really bad names of real estate teams. And, you know, it's just like oh man it's so tacky. I mean there's…I guess there's a place for them because they're still doing business. But… [Christian]: Well…well I'll back this up a little bit. I don't know if you wanna scratch this or not. So, you know, we've got a bit… [Chris]: No this is all good.  [Nathan]: I know you've been picking at soething.  [Chris]: This is alright.  [Christian]: So so far we've kind of [censored] around about bad marketing which is very subjective. Because… [Chris]: Welcome to the water cooler. [Christian]: What's that? [Chris]: Welcome to the water cooler.  [Christian]: Right, you know, like I myself when it comes to marketing try to put myself at the consumers shoes. And say “OK what's, you know, what…what's the objective of the marketing and am I accomplishing that?” You know, and so I think there's unfortunately most…at least in my experience, most, you know, brokerages and agents. You know, there's kind of the standard of like “Yeah well you do a farm, you know, and you just solds and just listed postcards and you have, you know, your face on your business card and, you know, just kind of all this really low bar like everyone does it. Everyone's told to do it.”  And people who aren't agents don't pay any attention to it. They don't care. You know, it doesn't bring them any value. It goes right in the recycling. You know, you direct me on stuff. And so that brings a question about what is…what is good marketing. Yeah I know what caught my attention as a new agent when I saw social media stuff that stood out or community events or, you know, things that I thought were interesting and unique in this space.  And I think that's kind of the key. Is like is it different? Is it gonna catch people's attention in an industry of white noise? Or, you know…And so I think a lot of that there's not just like hey you do this one thing and that's good marketing. I think in this world of noise, you have to have many touch points. It has to be consistent. It has to be driven towards a specific end result. You know, whether that's someone saving up for email or a meeting or liking your page or following you. You know, like it all has to be designed in a consistent way to…to push people towards a certain desired objective. And most people don't approach marketing in that way. There's kind of like half hazard-ly throw stuff out there without a desired intention in mind.  [Chris]: It's a weak thought Christian. Among real estate agents. [Christian]:  What's that? [Chris]: To think about how the consumer is gonna like the content and the message. [Christian]: Yeah.  [Chris]: You know, it's…I'm not a marketer. By all means like that's not my forte. I can train a real estate agent to sell and have a successful business. I could teach them some of the techniques that they should think about when they're finding how to market themselves. But by all means I am NOT a marketer. Like I'm not gonna create a campaign. I am NOT gonna run all that stuff. I'll leave that to other people who are more creative than I am and just let them do their thing. [Christian]: But it certainly had that desired effect to you once. And you could send that to a marketer. [Chris]: I…I know what we need to accomplish. And so here in Georgia, we…we actually do recruit new agents at my firm. So we have…we get all of the information for the people who pass and we send out collateral. We send out like we send out really nice marketing pieces to them. And so my wife recently got her real estate license to help out in the office because she's a part owner in the company. So some of the things that she's doing, she needs a license now. So she got her license and just for the hell of it we decided “OK we're gonna see what other brokerages are sending out.” And it ranges. Some of them send out, you know, one eight-and-a-half by 11 piece of paper that's a letter. Some of them send out postcards. Some of them send out…there's one KW office. They send out like this worksheet. Right. And it's got this three boxes or three columns and a bunch of rows. And each row it's like “Check about if this broker offers this.” It's like a broker checklist. Interview other brokers and see if they have everything we have. [Christian]: Like a comparison sheet. [Chris]: Yes. Yes that's exactly what it is. And that was probably the most creative. There was a Coldwell Banker office, it sent three po…three postcards from the exact same broker. Brokers face on it. And then it has like no message. Right like the postcard says like “Be bold.” Or like “Be strong.” Like on one. And it's like you've got two or three words taking up the entirety of this like six by nine postcard. And it doesn't say anything of value at all. It's just like motivational [censored]. So then like we look at what we're sending out. And we're sending out this like…we're sending out two mailings, in depth packet of everything that the company offers on this. Like premium glossy photo. And I'm like “You know what? This is why people call us off of this stuff. It's because these other brokers that are in our market doing this, it's garbage.” You got to…you got to focus on what the consumer is gonna want. I'm glad you do that. [Christian]: Sure. Well I think to, you know, the key in on what you said, you know, it's a little cliche these days or whatever. But talking about bringing value. Right. Like you've got to resonate with whoever you're trying to get in front of with something that…that they're going to, well, resonate with. You know, there's gonna be a value that they use. That…that catchphrase. And so it's typically not going to be “Hey I just sold this house or I closed in five days.” They don't give a [censored]. They don't know what that means. Like, you know, but if you are like, you know, you're specializing in a certain community. And, you know, you're sending out something who says “Hey have you checked out this new pizza joint that they just opened? Here's the interview with the owner.” You know, like that doesn't have anything to do the real estate. But you're getting your name and message out there. In alignment with “Hey this person is actually invested in the community. Actually supporting that business of actually providing something to the people that would frequent that business, who might find that interesting.” As an example of, you know, a community aligned marketing strategy that's, you know, one touch piece amongst many.  You know, whether that's, you know, if you're gonna do a farm have that be consistent. And there's technology you can utilize to do, you know, retargeting Facebook or Google Ads that, you know, have that consistent message to those same people you're mailing. If they, you know…you know that kind of thing. But that takes planning. That takes technical expertise. And I think that's a far cry from, you know, Nate was saying “Hey I'm not a marketer. Hire that [censored] out.” And I agree with. That but there's so a lot of low bar marketing stuff out there, that's like…My last brokerage, you know, they've had like a social media company come in who basically said “Hey, you know what Facebook is? We'll take care of that for you. And what they meant by that is “If you sign up with us, we're gonna send out this exact same [censored] generic posting…” [Chris]: That you would. [Christian]: Yeah right. And like, you know, I'd be falling for some this people. And you'd see the exact same posting on six different agents sites in the same company, because they're just sending out the same generic [censored]. I'm like that does more to harm you and your reputation that does to like not send anything out at all. [Chris]: Definitely. One of the major things that I learned when…when we started doing SEO on our website, is that for any third party, like if you really want to get your money's worth, you have to hire in-house. Like if you're not hiring in-house, you're just going out and hiring a firm, unless they are a premium level firm where you have a dedicated account manager that is spending X number of hours on your account every month…you're just not gonna get your money's worth. [Christian]: Right and it's not gonna be cheap. [Chris]: Hire in-house.  [Christian]: Yeah. [Chris]: Where you have to monitor it in-house and then outsource the work itself. But to just go out and say “Here take care of it.” That's…that's like, you know, you're eating in a den of snakes.  [Christian]: Right. Well and if you're gonna hire that out, if you're an agent you're like “Hey marketing is not my forte. I'm gonna hire it out.” you better make sure that wherever you hire is asking you questions. To make sure that that content is, you know, in your voice. It's, you know, it's not gonna be, you know, if someone who's following X agent knows you personally, and they see something coming out, they're like “That doesn't sound like them. They wouldn't send something out like that.” Like now you've got a authenticity issue. And, you know, you're going to be doing more damage. I mean especially as you we're seeing, you know, the demographic shift and the impact of social media. What people care about is…is authenticity, being genuine. If they catch wind of “Oh you just hiring out some generic someone, someone, some bot or some company is running your social media…yeah unfriend. Not interested. I'm not going to work with them because, you know, they can't even bother to post real stuff from themselves.” [Chris]: If you're looking to hire an ad agency, you're gonna be on retainer for a minimum of 5k a month. And that does not include your ad spend. Like if you want a good ad agency, if…if you're just looking to hire, you know, a marketing consultant who's gonna charge you, you know, 150 dollars a month, for this number of posts on social media, it…it's…you might as well light your money on fire. It's not going to do anything for you. [Christian]: Well there's different…I mean they're just from models, you know. I mean I'm a very DIY person. But I also know that me, I'm not a professional marketer. Like I know, you know, kind of the strategy aspect of it and…but, you know, I've hired like a local marketer. Who would sit down with me and flush out, you know “OK this is what you have going on. How to be aware where are your missing pieces. And not leverage things where they're not connected.” That kind of stuff and kind of map it out for me. And then I go execute it. Now if you can hire someone to execute it's, that is gonna be a lot more expensive. Because that's very times, you know, intensive.  [Chris]: Yeah I mean and that's gonna be the difference. Like you can…you can bring in a consultant, for almost anything. But then you have to do the work. And the consultant is not gonna come up with the whole idea for you. They're gonna help you work through it. So but if you want…but if you're…My point is, you know, if you're hiring, you know, the hundred and fifty hundred and ninety nine dollar marketing company online, that's a subscription, versus you really want advertising, it's a difference.  Like you've got that retainer every single month. And you've got to hit that spend limit with them. And that does not include your ads. [Christian]: Sure. [Chris]: They'll go through and they'll do everything from your direct mail pieces, to video creation, to all of it. [Christian]: Right. And that's gonna be an actual marketing campaign with multiple platforms and tiers. Not just “Hey we're sending out social media posts on your Facebook.” It's entirely different. And I mean it's some agents who don't, you know, see the benefit of that. Or like “I don't have time for that” you know, like Nate. I mean he stays busy enough and successful enough to not need that. But…but I mean the stuff he does organically is still marketing. It's just not your typical overt cheesy agent stuff. Which I think speaks…it's a lot more powerful than if you did the traditional “Just sold, just listed, hey look at me, I'm in an open house.” You know, and everything's just overtly real estate. Which it doesn't resonate with the majority of people, the majority of the time. [Nathan]: No and, you know, I think you actually…what's you're gonna see and unbeknownst to you guys, but you're gonna see me doing a little more marketing here in the future. But yeah well I have the luxury though of…Our company just brought on a marketing director that has a very strong marketing background. So we will have an in-house marketing department that… [Christian]: Nice. [Nathan]: Make, you know, will be able to take on what visions I have. Or I don't want to say visions. I call them thoughts. Yeah I mean I had a meeting with her last week. She's awesome and I…I equate what she can do to what like my tattoo guy does. Right. I come up with this wild little sketch on a piece of paper that looks like a third-grader did it. I say “Hey here.” And then a week later he hands it back and I'm like “I don't know how you got that, but it's perfect.” You know… [Christian]: Sure. They will take your vision and make it into something. [Nathan]: And make it into something and Karen will be able to do that for it. Some…a lot of brokerages I don't think have, you know, that good fortune of having a marketing director that has a very solid background with a large company that can create some of these things we want. Within the vision that you need to do. I think it's important that whatever your theme is, you have consistency with it. And a lot of people don't do that. I think a lot of real estate and what you do is marketing. Right. So if you're gonna do it, do it well. [Christian]: Sure. Well I think a lot of agents don't realize it like what they're putting out there, you know, is represent themselves. You know, because I mean you can have your marketing and your advertising. Typically people use them interchangeably. But they're not, you know. Like for us, you know, we just, you know, ponied…pointed up. And…and hired Max the designs to…to do our marketing piece, you know, pieces. Which is essentially a design firm, you know, small design team down Los Angeles that walks you through a creation process of like everything, from color scheme to…to fonts to like what's the feel, you know, your brokerage has. And all those kind of stuff to make stuff that's customized for you. All the pieces are consistent. Totally customized to provide a platform. All your agents can log in and create their own stuff. Customize it, you know, download it.  Like all that is like the bare minimum marketing pieces that you can then use for presentations or social media stuff. Or…or whatever. But, you know, something like that gives you a consistency for your agents, for your firm. But then on top of that you've got the actual “OK I'm gonna run a marketing campaign and that requires, you know, some intentional thought behind. What's my desire goal? What messages are gonna resonate with whom? What platforms win?” You know, much more complex than just aesthetic marketing piece.  You're muted.  [Nathan]: Everybody got quiet. So… [Chris]: No one's muted. We just were talking…[laughter]. All right. Well I think that is definitely you now… [Christian]: Helpful. Hopefully it's interesting. Oh boy this is the funny part.  [Nathan]: Anyway.  [Chris]: No I mean it's…it's great. We…we haven't put anything in place like that for our firm right now. Even though we have a…our listing coordinator has a marketing background. She's actually in portfolio school right now. So to kind of an extent we can…we have that ability. She'll bounce some ideas off of us. We'll bounce ideas off of her. Actually just to make sure we're not doing anything stupid.  But for everything with us, it's a lot of…it's word-of-mouth. And I think that that's another type of marketing that people don't pay enough attention to. Going back a few years to when Scott Stratten [phonetics] talked about on marketing. At Inman he said, you know “If you want word of mouth, what do you do? You do something worth talking about.” So there…there's that whole aspect to marketing our businesses. Doing things like Ritz Carlton. Doing things like Disney. Doing things…taking so much advanced precaution with our clients, thinking about their problems before they ever have it. That that way the client has no other alternative but to say how great their experience was. And I think that that's something that, you know, we need to figure out or put more focus on also, because that stuff's free. [Christian]: Yeah well and that's what, you know, for all that you're leveraging the client experience. Right. It's how you do your business, you know. All the marketing advertising is how you build up from, you know, getting in front of people to get them to that place where they're your client. And then that experience comes in and the referral business can happen. It's all part of a, you know, a long cycle of business. Hopefully. [Chris]: Absolutely. So I think that's good. [Nathan]: Yeah. [Chris]: Any final thoughts while you're at it? [Christian]: I would say as an agent, know your strengths, know your weaknesses. Don't try to do everything. Hire out the stuff that you're not an expert in. In this case marketing. But, you know, you got to find…you got to find someone that can draw out what that vision is. So that it's consistent. Enhances your brand as opposed to completely contradicts your…consistency. [laughter] Words. [Chris]: Nate any final thoughts? [Nathan]: No. Stay off Facebook. Don't request me. [laughter]. Get off my lawn you kids. Seriously I was like…all of that stuff that everybody else does, don't [censored] do it.  [Christian]: There's that. [Nathan]: I don't want to be your friend because you're not gonna sell me a house. All right. All right. Guys good luck and hope it works out for you. [Chris]: Yeah. All right so basically there's different types of marketing. Figure out what you want. Avoid the shiny object. Don't think that you're gonna find something that is going to solve all of your problems for one low monthly subscription. And then don't leave out the word of mouth. Make sure you're doing the things for your clients in your daily business. Make sure that your clients are your number one focus. Because guess what? Costs a whole lot less to keep a client than it does to acquire a new one. Everybody this has been re:Think Real Estate. We'll catch you next Monday. [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Download this Episode We've all been there on our real estate path. Today we discuss the difference between calling ourselves a professional and actually being a professional. reThink Real Estate Podcast Trannscription Audio length 28:02 RTRE 63 – Being a Pro vs. Saying You're a Pro [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Hey everybody welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. Chris Lazarus here. Here with Christian Harris and Nathan White. Nate you've got a bone to pick with some people. What's going on dude? [Nathan]: I mean call it a bone or not. But so I was just recently on a trip with some buddies of mine. And I was ranting. Or we were individually ranting I should say, about our industries that we respectively work in. And of course I got some puzzled looks and different things and, you know, about my rants. And ironically enough, one of the guys on the trip called me the day after we got back.  And he says “I have new respect for what you were talking about.” I said “What do you mean?” He says “Listen, you know, my…my aunt, you know, she…she passed away and…and one of my family members is selling her house. And the agent that my aunt hired said ”Listen I don't really want you telling anybody that somebody passed away in the home. Yada yada yada.”” The agent responded with “Trust me this is what I do for a living.” My friend then said “Please ask me how many houses has she sold.” I said “Well Larry how many houses as she sold?” He said zero. And he said “I totally get it.” He said this individual, you know, is making it appear I guess if you would, that they're an expert in our industry and, you know, what we do, but they've not sold a home. They have a license. Right. They're a realtor. Right. But they've done zero business. So again there…there is there's some delineation here between who's an agent who is a licensee. Right. And I get it. Just wound up. I mean I get it, you know, but I don't I also don't get it. I was taught “Fake it til you make it.” When I started. And I don't…I don't think that's the way to go. I think there's a lot of other paths to go through education and training and certain things, that I believe, you know, yourself and Christian both provide. But what would you two tell an agent in this situation? Right. [Chris]: Oh I wouldn't say…I would tell the agent “Look don't tell people this is what you do for a living until you actually make a living off of it.” [Nathan]: Christian? [Christian]: I mean my whole thing…because I was kind of taught same thing. Kind of “Fake it til you make it. Yo here's some scripts to make it sound like, you know, what you're talking about that you don't.” What I tell my new agents is like, you know, “Don't…don't come out and say “Hey I'm brand new. I don't know what I'm doing.” But positioning in such a way where you're saying “Hey, you know, I'm working closely with my designated broker. If I don't have the answer I can get it. You're getting two for the price of one. It's not just new agent flailing out there trying to pretend like they know what they're doing.”” So, you know, essentially don't lie but also don't come straight out say “Hey I don't know what I'm doing and I have no confidence. You know, I'm probably gonna [censored] up and [censored] over your listing, you know, I'm a seller.” But at the same time don't…you merely like you yeah you have all experienced in the world when you don't. because it's not hard to find out information about how experienced or how long an agent's been licensed. [Chris]: Doesn't even require an open records request. You can just look it on Zillow. [Christian]: Yeah I mean and…and…and that's it. And it may not be the case with every real estate firm. But for us, you know, we closely work with our new agents to make sure they're providing the best experience. They know what they're doing. They're not, you know, floundering, you know. And I know business brokerages are supposed to do that. [Chris]:Floundering. Like flopping around flopping around [laughter].  [Christian]: Yeah flopping around the land.  [Nathan]: Like a fish out of water is what it looks like. [Chris]: Yeah. [Christian]: It's hard…it's hard for a new agent to mask that when, you know, you don't really know how the process works, and you don't really know the direction you're supposed to be going and what you're supposed to be saying to your client, you know. [Nathan]: Wouldn't this be an interesting industry change if you had to have some intern or externship with so many transactions under your belt before you were to able to go out and represent a buyer or seller? [Chris]: That makes sense. That's what we do for new agents. They have to have six transactions under their belt before the training wheels come off. At a minimum. And for the first six transactions they're heavily mentored through them. So they're…they're not alone. They have people like their first deals they've got a mentor that's going out. And…and working with them. Teaching them how to do the consults for the buyers. And for the listing consult. So that by the time that agent gets ready to go out and be on their own, they generally have a great idea of what they're doing. [Christian]: Yeah well that's a great way to do it. I mean I love how you formalize that. Obviously that takes, you know, a brokerage's,  you know, certain amount of experienced agents and size. And, you know… [Chris]: Yeah I'll let you know when we get at that level too. [laughter] [Christian]: It is a structure. Because you could say technically the industry requires it. but, you know, when the laws basically says, you know, “Additional designated broker oversight for the first two years” like that's really loose. And it's not, you know, it's not really…there's not really a standard for that. Even though technically new agents are supposed to be more heavily monitored. There's no…there's nothing in place a, you know, firm to firm, insuring that happens. [Chris]: Yeah I mean there…I was talking to somebody the other day he was telling me about a person who's making a switch from another firm. And this person was also a recruiter. And he was like “Yeah this person brought about a hundred and forty people over to the brokerage. And about a hundred and twenty of them left.” And I'm like “What?!” Like I don't even want to turn that number. Like I'll bring ten and one will leave. Like I'm not gonna turn a hundred and forty people to get twenty.  It's just ridiculous the lack of oversight that some of these brokerages put into actual retention and training and development. It's literally taking the pickle, throwing it at the wall and seeing which one sticks. [Christian]: Sure. Well I mean and it's well-known, and I've been saying this for years. You know, like most firms, you know, most of the industry is just focus on numbers. Like all we want is people in the seats. Licensed agents, you know. We're not really concerned about retention and training and empowering because there's gonna be, you know, a dozen new agents with, you know, dollar signs in their eyes waiting to take their spots. You know, when…when they fail. [Nathan]: It will be like “Oh let's look at our checklist. You have a license. Check. You have a pulse. Check. Oh yeah good. You can…you can join us.” And uh, you know, I often get the question “Hey what…what led to your success as an agent?” I don't want to call myself successful but I do well. And I know what I'm doing now. And I think a huge part of it and I will I will tap the shoulder if you would of the team lead, Tim Reel [phonetics], that I had at Keller Williams when I started, is…is that I…part of it… Let me rephrase this. I viewed it as an internship. Right. I knew I was gonna pay a steep cut on my team splits. And KW split. But I also knew I was gonna get an education. And I wasn't standing alone. I wasn't by myself. And I was constantly getting feedback or more importantly I was getting mentorship. I think that's what a lot of people want. And…and that helped me. And then when I did want to go out and do my own thing and kind of stand on my own feet as a solo agent, I had the capability to do that. So, you know, that's always been my win at KW. Don't…you're not a technology company. You're a training company. KW gave me some great bones. You gave me a great foundation. So any agent that is potentially listening to this, that's struggling or is thinking about coming an agent, I would tell “You…you want to do well? Go be on a team. Go…go learn.” I don't…I don't, you know, that's just me.  [Christian]: And I say you're pretty fortunate because, you know, I've heard, you know, I've heard many things as far as, you know, people kind of getting on team. I mean KW is kind of what they're known for. You know. But it's a…it could be very hit and miss. Because, you know… [Nathan]: Yes. [Christian]: I mean you could be, you know, you can be fortunate where the team lead is actually interested in mentoring and training, in empowering their team members. But I've also seen people that, you know, get on teams and all this is a call center. And they were promised “Hey we're gonna train you. We're gonna teach you this stuff.” And they're not learning anything except for making sales calls and scripts. You know, it could be very…very hit and miss, as far as the team structure goes and the attitude of the leadership. [Nathan]: Same as I tell a potential client. Interview realtors. I tell a potential realtor and if you have a lot of teams. [Christian]: Yeah. [Chris]: Interview teams. Interview brokers. Interview office staff. Interview whoever you can. I mean… [Nathan]: Interview your clients. You don't necessarily want all your clients that come to you.  [Chris]: No stay away from my clients. You're another agent. I don't want you talking to them. [laughter] [Christian]: Yeah I am gonna interview your clients. [Chris]: So…but this is…this brings us back to like a great point. Right. Because you've got three types of agents. You've got the full time agents. Right. These are the people that are in here all the time. These are the people that this is how we make a living. Then you have the part-time agents which I don't have an issue with part-time agents. Part-time agents they're putting in the hours. They may not be in at 40, 60, 80 hours a week. But they're in it 10, 20, 30 hours a week. And that's enough so that they generally understand what's happening in the industry. And they're able to build and maintain a client base and, you know, do a few deals every year. Then you've got the problem. The last type of agent it's the sometime agent. The agent that hangs their license. They're just a licensee. They're not in it full-time. They've got another job and they'll sell a house whenever their family member comes to them and says “Hey, you know, you're a real estate agent right?” “Yeah. Yeah I am.” And they're really not. And they…they don't fully understand what's going on. And when they take a deal that's when things go sideways. So I think the clarification is what kind of agent do you want to be? If you're…if you're coming into the industry are you going to be a sometime agent? Or are you gonna be a part-time agent? Because if you're…if you're just dipping your toe in the water and this is new for you, you have to be a part-time agent. If you're anything less than that you're never gonna learn enough to be successful. You know what? You know what? We can just steal from the Game of Thrones on that. Because, you know what we say, to us sometimes agent…not today. [Christian]: Not today.  [Nathan]: Not today. [Christian]: What I was gonna say so…so that's as we jumped into this, you guys are like “Hey let' talk about this thing.” “I don't know what you're talking about.” So…so we talked about licensee versus an agent that's [crosstalk]. That's what you mean? [Nathan]: Yes. [Christian]: I got you. I think… [Nathan]: I think I've told the story once. I insulted a woman. She's…we were having a conversation. [Christian]: You insulted someone? No way. [Nathan]: Yes. And she said something like “Oh you're real estate agent?” And I said “Yeah.” And she said “Me too.” And I was like “Great. How many houses did you sell last year?” And she's like “Four.” And I was like “You're not an agent.” She got all upset. I was like…what…like…I don't know. [Christian]: You have a way with words Nathan.  [Nathan]: Like I mean it is what it is. I mean I…yeah that's right. But there needs to be so many changes in our industry. And, you know, again we can talk about the barrier and entry. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to talk about two things on this episode, I guess. If we want to just get going and keep going.  [Chris]: Well let's keep going. [Christian]: But before we get away can I say something? [Nathan]: Go. Get away.  [Christian]: Get away. So to your point Chris about the licensee versus an agent and the three types of agents, and it's interesting. It seems like there's so many new agents that get into it just to be a licensee. It's basically like “Hey I can make, you know, a lot of money just, you know, accidentally selling a house now and then, to…to a friends.” So they're not invested in learning or building a career. They're kind of testing the waters. And memorably they fail and realize, you know, usually it's too late. “Hey this actually cost me a lot of money and I'm not really willing to put in the time. And real estate doesn't work”. You know. [Chris]: It's…it's like people come in here and, you know, you can go and get a real estate license and you can go and sell your own home and you can buy your next home and you can earn a commission. Great. Yeah it offsets your down payment.  [Christian]: Sure. [Chris]: But you factor in that you do that once every ten years and it's…it's really not worth your time.  [Christian]: Right. Well I like your distinction between basically, you know, the part-time, who is still again with the time they have, they're investing and learning. Versus the “I'm just sitting here with my license doing other stuff until something comes my way. And then I flattened my way through it.” And because I think it's a big difference. I think a lot of people in the industry inflate the two.  Like I was having a conversation the other day with, you know, some agents from another indie brokerage here in town. And I love that brokerage but they're very…very high standards on who they'll accept. Like if three times a week there or you're gone. You know, you have certain production what are you gone. [Chris]: Good. [Christian]: I think that's great but that means… [Chris]: I wish more brokers did that. [Christian]: But that means that they don't do part-time agents. And, you know, this particular agent I was talking to, was basically cuckooing part-time agents. I was like listen “The people that can do it full-time like you you're basically taking it elitist stance, because people have kids or they have other jobs or, you know, it's just not the priority in life to spend 80 hours a week trying to make real estate work.” And I think there's room for that because just because you're part time doesn't necessarily mean you're inept. Or, you know, don't know how to do real estate. It just made you're focusing on other things. You know. [Chris]: Wait really? Because I thought whatever my preconceived notions were, we're correct. [Christian]: But I'm saying I think there's a difference. Because part time agents can invest in their training and knowledge and experience just as much as a full time. But that's a lot different than someone who just is seating on the sidelines waiting for real estate to come to them. [Chris]: As long as they're putting in the hours. And…and it's actually interesting that you bring that up. Because there was a study done by a university talking about entrepreneurship and going and creating your own self-employed income. And the success rates. And somebody who does it part-time at first, believe it or not has a thirty percent greater chance of success rate, long term. Than somebody who just dives in off the deep end full-time. So you can have somebody who's coming in part-time 20 hours a week and as long as they're working those 20 hours there's a greater chance of success that that person is going to be a long-term successful real estate agent. Then somebody who comes in off the bat, full time and has one way to go. [Christian]: What…it's interesting. Is that because they're runways longer because they have a supplemental income. Or something as opposed to… [Chris]: Yeah. The caveat with this is that those people are actually putting in the work. Right. They're working 20, 30 hours a week.  [Christian]: Sure. Right. They're not sitting around at their home office watching Netflix and occasionally making a call or something. [Chris]: Yeah. [Nathan]: Well I mean aren't there plenty of full-time agents who work a lot of part-time hours? [Christian]: That's true. That's a good distinction. They usually don't make it either. [laughter] [Nathan]: I mean I know plenty of full-time agent, who I mean it's like “[censored] if you're full-time than you suck.” [laughter] I mean it's because you look at their sales history. Like great you sold six houses last year. But you're full-time. And then there's the part-time agent who sells twenty five a year. Right. So… [Christian]: Again that comes down to your hustle and your focus. Because I've seen full-time agent that, you know, that are there full-time, but they're mentally…they're all over the place. [Nathan]: Yeah right. So I, you know, I don't like to get into this, you know, “O you're full-time, part-time.” Again sales cure is all, where I come from. And if you have a history you have a history. That's what I…that's what I like to look at is, you know, it's what matters. If somebody says “Well I'm a full-time agent.” Well great you'd be a full-time agent with [censored] sales. Right. I mean that's easy. And so I'd rather say Hey you're an agent with a great history.” That…to me is important. That's where we can delineate the that whole thing.  Is…let's not get into full-time, part-time. Yeah, the sometime, I don't want to get around. But let's just get into “Hey what did you…” I tell them “What did you sell?” Ask them what did they sell last year. What they do. Which may be and, you know, part of this I wanted to ask in this kind of segues into the other side of this, is does area specialization in a normal market, like where I'm at, in Columbus, does that matter anymore due to the amount of data that is available? My argument would be “No it doesn't matter.” [Chris]: I would argue you, against that.  [Nathan]: I figured you would. Yeah Christian too. [Chris]: Yeah.  [Nathan]: But that's just me. So… [Chris]: And I think it comes down to the level of service that somebody wants to bring. If…if you have like three agents going up against one neighborhood, and one agent knows everything about the neighborhood, all the history. Everything that has taken place there. Everything that's going in. All the development that…that's happening. Then that agent can sell not only the house but also the story.  And if you could sell the story, you know, that…that's the best way to market right now. Whereas if you have two other agents that don't know that info, then they're just…they're either competing on price or they're competing on marketing ability. [Nathan]: All right go back in there. There's an agent you left out of this. What about the agent that has the capability to use their commission as leverage on a deal? That's not in the area. [Christian]: I mean I think it… [Chris]: Where would he use that laverage? [Nathan]: Towards closing costs. Say…saying…because in our market you can do that. Right. Say…say I specialize in Dublin. Right. Ohio. But I want to go to…I got a client who want…your potential client who's interested in buying in New Albany, that yeah I've done deals over there. But I'm competing against a New Albany realtor. And…and I can offer…say Christian's my buyer. I can incentivize him to use me because I can say “Hey you're gonna buy $500,000 home. You know what I'll do? I'll take three thousand dollars on my commission and credit that to you towards closing cost and pre-paids and closing cost.” Now in a competitive market I'm gonna choose the agent that's got leeway to give me something. Or that could bridge appraisal, help with closing cost or something like that. Over somebody who says “Oh I specialize in an area.” That's just me and my train of thought. [Christian]: I mean the specializing in an area, I…I'd say the value really depends on which side you're on. Like…like when I'm on the listing side I think it like I specialize in West Seattle. But I do other areas of Seattle in the suburbs. Like I remember specifically like I helped a military friend of mine sell this place and well the suburbs here.  Now I didn't…I've never sold a house in that area. And so one of the questions I had to ask is like “Hey tell me about your neighborhood.” Like “There's a main…there's a main road going through here. Our house is on this side of it. A lot different than this side.” Because I can look at the numbers all day long but as the stats don't tell me, you know, why people move to this area. Or what the demographics are. Or who the ideal buyer is gonna be.  You know, so you've got to do a lot more digging and you actually know the area for that. And on the buyer side I don't think that's as important. I mean it can be. You can leverage it. but, you know, you're not really…I think it's more important on the seller side. Because you're gonna use that information, that knowledge of the neighborhood to target that ideal buyer.  [Chris]: And I think… [Christian]: What to focus on. [Chris]: Yeah and Nate to your point, I think you're you're kind of comparing apples to oranges right now. Because you're…you're talking about two completely different value propositions. That the agents can base on. And, you know, all of them work. Right. There's a million different value propositions on how you can build your business. Whether you specialize in historic or new construction or this one area or whatever it might be. Or you…you leverage some of your commission income to incentivize, you know, the client base.  You know, you can pay. It's one way or another. If you want to take some of your commission and do that on the back end through a rebate, you know, who am I to judge? All of them work. They're all different business models. And I don't call one discount versus one traditional. They're just different business models. It just depends on what's right for the individual agent. And what's right for the individual agent has to line up with the broker that they're with. Because not all brokers will allow their agents to do a commission rebate. Or to donate some towards closing costs. Whatever that might be. But it has to…like they all work. Like one agent may have a value proposition. And their proposition may be “I know everything about this area. Use me because I'm gonna make sure you're fully informed.” And then another agent may say “Well we're not as familiar with the area but we'll make sure that you have this financial instead of…” And then it's just up to the buyer. Right. The buyer may want money or they we may want their choice to be 100%. So it can go either way. [Christian]: And I'd say I mean you can't you can kind of think about in terms of like your commission is one of the terms of the contract. And so it's something that you could leverage just like you can any other terms, you know. That's something that you directly have control over versus, you know, the buyer. But, you know, options. [Nathan]: Right. Just curious. I mean you see it often. I mean…and I've done it. but, you know, we'll waive appraisal. And, you know, I will use my commission as a bridge in case that commits…that appraisal comes in short. And I've had plenty of times. It never has. We've been fine. I've had times where it comes in short and hey that's fine too. Again it's…it's as much for the seller when I represent a buyer to offer, you know, to say “Hey I'm willing to use my commission as a bridge in case it doesn't.” Because then they know they'll, you know, they'll get that money. So… [Chris]: I think that that's something to be careful about. So you're… you're very well versed in that Nate. But for your average agent, like if they're going into putting their livelihood on the line, like they got…they're gambling on themselves. [Nathan]: Yeah they are. [Chris]: And…and that's what you're doing. And you're good. And I would probably gamble on myself if I had to take the bet. [Nathan]: I like it. [Chris]: But I think that there's a lot of agents that for general advice…Don't do that well.  [Nathan]: Yes. You also…you got to remember I am fair. I keep 100% of my commission. Truly 100%. Right. So, you know, I don't have a split. So you got to think on a normal agents, say they're on a 60/40 split, you know, they're already taking a hit. Right. So they're potentially gonna take a bigger hit? Like, you know, they do have to be cautious. I…I have a little…I have a lot more leeway. Let's be honest. But… [Christian]: Sure. Not all the firms are going to support that. You know, so… [Nathan]: No they're not.  [Chris]: And you know as general…for our audience, as general advice I'm gonna say don't do that. Mainly because I don't know, you know, if I'm talking about the average agent, right. [Nathan]: Right. [Chris]: They're not gonna be at that level to where, you know, I would feel comfortable just saying “Hey go out and put your commission on the line.” Because guess what? They do that. They say “I'll bridge the gap on an appraisal.” And the appraisal was four percent off instead of three. [Christian]: Well yeah… [Chris]: Now what's gonna happen? [Christian]: I mean you should always have…always have a cap, you know, as far as how far you'll go. You know, I mean I think in general, the principle I like. Because you're basically partnering with your clients, with skin the game. As opposed to you like “Hey, you know, here's all the terms. If it doesn't work out, well I'm fine. But you're gonna get [censored].”  [Nathan]: Well and my part in it is where I bridge part of the gap. My client will bridge part of the gap. But my commission will supersede their bridge. So but again what we're doing and like you said is, you know, kind of like in Top Gun. Right. You know, when you went fully inverted over the other plane and they're like this, you know. So that's the maneuver I pull. And I just haven't taken the picture yet. So…[laughter] [Chris]: International relations. [Nathan]: That's right. So anyway those are my two concerns or thoughts…would, over the last week. [Christian]: It's a creative way to do what you have to do, in a competitive market. [Nathan]: Yes.  [Chris]: Just make sure you run it by your broker. [Christian]: Always. [Chris]: And have your lawyers look at your language in your contract.  [Nathan]: Yeah you actually have to disclose that too, here. So… [Chris]: Yeah you do in Georgia also if you're doing that with the commission. The buyer has to pay tax on that too. [Nathan]: Really? [Chris]: Yeah. Otherwise you have to claim it. [Nathan]: Yeah that's true. [Chris]: Yeah. All right. Well I mean I think that was pretty good. So just recapping. If you're…if you're brand new in the industry, you know, you you're one of three people, you're a full-timer, a part-timer or some timer. Don't be a some timer. Because if you're a some timer, you're never gonna learn everything you need to know in order to be successful at this job.  And then, you know, figure out how you want to build your business. Right. You can…you could do a bit model like Nathan and use your commissioners leverage as long as you do it right. Or you can be the expert in your field. Know everything about everyone.  And everything that's going on in your neighborhood. And make sure that you're the source of information. Either way the business models work. Pick what's right for you. This has been another episode of re:Think Real Estate. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next Monday. [Nathan]: Peace. [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

What is the church? Ekklesia: assembly for worship Jesus is the head, the church is his body, Col 1.18 We form the body, 1 Cor 12.12; Eph 5.30 Complacency is the enemy to growth  Are we in spiritual “holiday mode”? It is uncomfortable to follow Jesus: Luke 5.1-3 “Once while Jesus was standing beside the lake of Gennesaret, and the crowd was pressing in on him to hear the word of God, he saw two boats there at the shore of the lake; the fishermen had gone out of them and were washing their nets. He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little way from the shore. Then he sat down and taught the crowds from the boat.” (Luke 5:1–3 NRSV) If want to see God do His work, must be willing to allow him to make us uncomfortable. Peter was open to being made uncomfortable “When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into the deep water and let down your nets for a catch.” Simon answered, “Master, we have worked all night long but have caught nothing. Yet if you say so, I will let down the nets.” When they had done this, they caught so many fish that their nets were beginning to break. So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both boats, so that they began to sink.” (Luke 5:4–7 NRSV) It must have been so inconvenient to do as Jesus said We don’t know their attitude, but we can see their obedience. “But when Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, “Go away from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man!” For he and all who were with him were amazed at the catch of fish that they had taken; and so also were James and John, sons of Zebedee, who were partners with Simon. Then Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching people.”” (Luke 5:8–10 NRSV) This moment changed Peter’s life. He started as a fishermen and became one of the most influential men in history simply because he allowed himself to be made uncomfortable by Jesus Key phrase, “if you say so…." Are we available for God? Or are we too busy? Even with good things? People are in need.  When was the last time you helped someone to become a Christian? It is uncomfortable to give ourselves up: Luke 5.10-11 “Then Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching people.” When they had brought their boats to shore, they left everything and followed him.” (Luke 5:10–11 NRSV) Jesus gave Peter a new identity. Jesus did not ask Peter to leave everything - but Peter understood it that way. Because Peter was willing to give himself up, Jesus gave him a new name, purpose and mission. His legacy lasts to this day. “So they watched him and sent spies who pretended to be honest, in order to trap him by what he said, so as to hand him over to the jurisdiction and authority of the governor. So they asked him, “Teacher, we know that you are right in what you say and teach, and you show deference to no one, but teach the way of God in accordance with truth. Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to the emperor, or not?” But he perceived their craftiness and said to them, “Show me a denarius. Whose head and whose title does it bear?” They said, “The emperor’s.” He said to them, “Then give to the emperor the things that are the emperor’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”” (Luke 20:20–25 NRSV) Whose image is on me? If it is that of Christ, we need to offer ourselves back to him. “Then Jesus said to Simon, “Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching people.” When they had brought their boats to shore, they left everything and followed him.” (Luke 5:10–11 NRSV) “Do not be afraid” - 14 times in NT   Thank you for listening to this podcast. You can find more episodes in our feed. Our web site is http://www.tvcoc.org.    Please add your comments on this week’s topic. We learn best when we learn in community.    Do you have a question about the Bible or the Christian faith? Is it theological, technical, practical? Send us your questions or suggestions. Here’s the email: tvcochrist@gmail.com.   Thanks again for listening. Have a super day.   God bless,   Malcolm   Reading, tvcoc, Thames Valley churches of Christ, ICOC, Tim Dannatt, Malcolm Cox, ICCM, Lower Earley, Southampton, Winchester, High Wycombe, Oxford, Banbury, Deepcut, Frimley, Basingstoke, Salisbury, Amesbury, Sunday School, Reading University, Youth Ministry, Bracknell, Bracknell Leisure Centre, Shevvy Dannatt, Mark Abril, Rachel Abril, Churches of Christ, Christian churches near me, tv coc, International church, churches close to me, Thames Valley, Thames Valley location, Thames Valley church of Christ, the Thames Valley,

Download this Episode We've all been there. Life hits you like a freight train and knocks you off course. Today we discuss how to get the train back on its track. Tune in to hear about how we deal with death, struggle, and negative outside voices. reThink Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 28:18 RTRE 60 – Breaking Out of a Rut in Your Real Estate Business [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. I'm Chris here with Christian and Nate is back. No longer sick. Welcome back Nate.  [Nathan]: Thanks. Thank you. [Chris]: Yes. All of energy today. [laughter]  [Christian]: He is possessed to be here. [Chris]: Oh. Let's see those jazz hands Nate. [Nathan]: Hold on. [laughter]. [Christian]: What are you typing? [Chris]: Not even…Not even ready to start. There we go.  [Christian]: Yeah don't worry about this.  [Chris]: So we were just talking before getting started here about, you know, what do you do when you're in a rut. Like you're just out of it, you know, listening to Nate's voice. He's in a rut right now. Even if it's just for the next hour. So like Christian what do you do when you're in a rut? Like how do you pull yourself out of it? [Christian]: I mean I'll tell you one thing that's key to not do and that's to quit, and to listen to the demons, you know, that are speaking…speaking lives in your head about how your failure and your, you know, nothing's ever gonna change and it's gonna be like this forever. I'm sure I'm just the only one that hears those negative thoughts but… [Chris]: It's gonna be like this forever. You're a failure. [Christian]: Don't listen to them. I know. See now I'm hearing the voices for real. This is so real. [Chris]: [laughter] In your headphones.  [Christian]: Yeah in my headphones. So that's the first thing you don't do. [Chris]: Yeah I gotta agree. [Christian]: For me personally, you know, I just kind of keep my head down and keep going. But I mean I lot of it depends on why I am in a rut. Is it like a family rut where relationships aren't going great? Is it work? Is it financial? You know. Because I think, you know, the solution to those are all gonna be a little different. But the key to getting out of those is leaning…leaning on people. You know, like being honest. Having people that can come around to you and speak truth into that. Whether it's co-workers or family members or, you know, besties, you know. Don't isolate yourself because that's…that's doesn't go well for most people. [Chris]: Gotta have your besties. Nate. [Nathan]: Yep. [Chris]: What do you think? [Nathan]: What's the question again? [Chris]: How do you get out of a rut. [Nathan]: Oh how do you get out of a rut. [Christian]: It's your topic buddy. [Chris]: Yeah this is your choice Mr. “I'm in a rut.”  [Nathan]: How do you…You know, I don't know. You got to find, you know, how you used to work triggers. You got to find….one you got to be able to identify you're in a rut. Right. I mean, you know, yeah I just kind of went through one. Yeah I was sick for a week. Had some unfortunate family things happen. And, you know, it was just [censored] death of you. I mean it's what it was but you know it side tracks you. Right. You know, as I call it the…the train gets off the rail. So you one you got to recognize that the…the freaking train you're on is off the rails. And then you got to figure out what's the trigger to get it back on. You know, for me it's being very scheduled and stuff. And just it's…I don't know you have to just recommit.  You know, what's the…I used to have a mentor who used to say “You kind of have to recenter the salt on the plate.” And I think that's what you got to do. You got to be able to identify it. You got to figure out, you know, why you're in it. OK get out of it, you know, and then , you know, there's certain things. I don't know you can read motivational stuff. I mean Gary Vee I, you know, it's not for all people but he's for me. And I can get on a pity party and he gets me out of the pity party. So [Christian]: Yeah nice kick to the junk to get you back on track. [Nathan]: Yeah and I think in our industry, I think we all get kind of jaded at times. You get….you get I don't know. You get frustrated and then you get sidetracked.  [Christian]: And it's just you. [Nathan]: Yeah all right. [Chris]: No it's definitely not just you.  [Nathan]: Yeah I know it's everybody. I was talking with a colleague the other day and, you know, he said “Man I just…” he said “I didn't do [censored] for six months.” And now you know, he knew it. He identified it. But, you know, he's like the worst part is now I gotta play catch-up. I, you know, we all, you know, we get these peaks and valleys. And I don't…I don't like to get in those peaks and valleys. I like to have, you know, a nice steady stream of income. Right. [Chris]: Well six months is a little bit too long. That…that's not all right. Six months is an active decision to say “You know what, I'm just not gonna work.” [Nathan]: Yeah. [Christian]: I think it's called clinical depression. [Nathan]: Yeah well, you know, he was working on his home doing some other things. Fine. But… [Christian]: OK so he's just distracted. [Nathan]: He's just distracted and I think we all can get distracted. And then I think we just get frustrated. You know, we can get in our own way. So and, you know, it's, you know, you hear a realtor say “Oh I'm…” You know, we talked about this before. You know, “I'm so busy” And you say “What do you have going on?” And they're like “Oh I got one house in contract.” But you're so busy like…I don't know. It's…when I'm not busy, I'm not busy. You know, I don't even like the question what people say “Oh it's spring time right now. You're, you know, you must be busy as all get out. I'm steady. I'm not busy as I'll get out. But when you talk to me in November, December, January and February, guess what? You get the same response. Versus a lot of people say “Well I ain't got nothing going on.” So staying out of a rut I think is important. I think it's important that you identify how long you're in one. And it only took two weeks to get in one. Just because of, you know, being sick. And we're all self-employed. Right. o… [Chris]: Yeah I think I think one of the things is it doesn't take too long to get into a rut. Like one thing can happen and throw you completely off the rails. And then it…you have to go through…well depending upon what it is, you've got to go through these stages of healing to kind of get back into your groove. So if it's…if, you know, if it's family that's throwing, you know, things at you that are like “Oh, you know, what you're wasting your time. You're not in a good environment. The industry is gonna end soon. Your real estate agents are gonna be obsolete. Everything's gonna be AI in tech.” I just got that from my [censored] father the other day. And… [Christian]: Ouch. [Chris]: Yeah like “Really, no I…I don't think it is but, you know, that…that's great that you're encouraging me. I really appreciate that.” But you got to go through this stage of accepting what has happened. Seeing it from, you know, multiple points of view. Realizing that, you know, you're either making the right decision and then you double down on your decision, or there's some corrective action that needs to happen. And then you need to make the corrective action. [Christian]: I mean I'd say that, this is kind of cliché, but I definitely say that it's very important to…as you're trying to, you know, realize, you know, “OK what's…what set me in this rut and how do I get out?” is to try to only focus on things that you can affect. Right. As most of stuff in our life we have no control over. You can't control other agents, can't control the market. You control what you do and how focused you are. And, you know, your attitude and all that kind of stuff.  But I'd say that's definitely key to getting out of it is not…not, you know, what we call catastrophizing, if that's a word, which I don't think it is. But, you know, essentially… [Nathan]: It sounds great. [Chris]: Yeah if it's not a word it sounds like a word and it should be a word. So yeah… [Christian]: It's…it's a word that would they use in in the military's newer…what they call it, resiliency training . Essentially, you know, one of the keys to, you know, not getting in a rut or recognizing when you are going into rut is recognizing, you know, a mindset that's a downward spiral of catastrophizing everything. Where, you know, one thing happens and then you just assume the worst and then that, you know, self-fulfilling prophecy happens. And you keep spiraling downwards as opposed to, you know, “OK let's look at the big picture. Let's not think of the worst thing let's think of, you know, outcomes that are positive and, you know, be optimistic as opposed to pessimistic”, you know.  This is one of the mental tricks of, you know, how are you going to position yourself mentally to get out of the rut. As opposed to, you know, staying in that rut. [Chris]: I like that. That's really good. So Nate, cuz you ran for 24 hours last year, what was like what was going on in your head and do you think that any of those things could be used to get you out of a rut ? [Nathan]: Well I'm getting ready to run for twelve hours soon again. I think it's just it's…it's a semental staying power if you would. Because what's the easiest thing to do in any of those scenarios are with what we do for a living, what's the easiest thing to do? [censored] it. Quit. Right. [Chris]: Like quit. Don't even… [Nathan]: Just quit. Right. I mean I think what most people don't realize and, you know, I can use it running wise or even and, you know, in this rut…What we think of and perceive is something that maybe feels like forever, is really not that long of a period of time. Right. When I did that race out in Colorado or run out in Colorado, there was a gentleman that, you know, he quit after, you know, about 16 hours. And he said “I can't do it anymore.” And I said “Dude just take a break. Don't leave the course. If you leave the, you know, if you leave the course, you can't restart. But you can you could take a rest, that's fine. It's OK. If you want a rest for thirty minutes or three hours then you could start back up on whatever mile you're on.”  Right. And he said no he couldn't do it. He went back to his hotel. About twenty three hours and thirty minutes into it I seen him at the finish line, start/finish line. And, you know, him lapping through and he comes and pulls up beside me and starts running. And I was like “What are you doing back out here?” He's like “I should have listened to you.” He's like “I left. I got back to the hotel. I took 30 minutes. Laid down and I was like nah I feel great now.”  So I think what we do is it's…it's how we perceive that. Right. like “Oh you're in a rut.” And I have been in a rut for two weeks. And it's that like Christian said, you get the self-fulfilling prophecy. And then it does spiral out of control. Right. versus if we can kind of slam the [censored] brakes on things, and go “Hold up. All right. Reset.” And…and grab a hold of it by the balls a little bit, you know, then…then you've got a good opportunity. But I think we just we, you know, society as a whole and what, you know, whether it's real estate or not, we…we just get caught up in that bad moment. So you got to be more optimistic than pessimistic. [Christian]: Yeah well I think it also help if, you know, kind of speaking to people getting into the industry, if there was a more realistic portrayal of what it's like to be a new agent. Because I mean I've, you know, speaking of our first quarter was very, very rough financially. And we have like five agents that just gave up. Just “I'm done. I'm not renewing my license. This was too hard.” And it's kind of that lack of resiliency because they'd…I don't think they had a realistic expectations coming into it. They're like “You can't just sit on YouTube while you, you know, quote to do your calls.” [laughter] Like you're not gonna get…You know, so there's a lack of resiliency. There's a lack of hustle. A lack of urgency and then, you know, no matter what, you know, your brokerage does, or people come up alongside you, they don't do it. They don't listen. And then they quit. And you're like “Yeah I kind of saw the writing on the wall.”  You're like, you know, it's…from the perspective of a broker like it's really easy to become jaded. And, you know, my version of a rut looks differently, you know, because I'm looking at agents and productivity and, you know, margins. And that kind of stuff. From agent perspective, you know, it's trying to get business, you know, having people say no to you. Or if you're new to an area trying to figure out how to get the word out there. And, you know, that kind of stuff. But either way it comes down to like not giving up, being resilient when things don't go perfectly, not letting that spiral and ruin the rest of your day.  [Nathan]: I would agree. [Chris]: Definitely, you know, you've got to be able to compartmentalize a little bit to know “Hey, you know what this is not that big of a deal.” Or, “You know what, this sucks. But, you know, I gotta keep ploughing on because if I stop I'm never gonna get this done. I'm never gonna hit my goal. So I've got to keep going.”  You know, it took, you know, I was in a rut a few weeks ago. And it took me a good five to six days to work my way through it. And it wasn't until I kind of saw some things from a different angle that, you know, it was…I realized, you know what, what I was doing was correct. And, you know, this one situation was an outlier. And it really didn't affect what I was doing as much as I thought it would. [Christian]: Yeah I mean a lot of what we're talking about here is your perspective. Right. And earlier I mentioned not letting yourself be isolated. And the reason for that is that other people can bring a perspective that you don't have. You know, they're looking at that from the outside. Where you may be, you know, kind of myopically looking at your feet. And, you know, where you just stumbled while they're looking at the big picture of like “But look at all this potential and look at where you came from and look at what's ahead of you.”  You know, I think that's very important to have that community around you, of people that can speak into you. Well that's your spouse or business partner or whatever. [Chris]: And sometimes you don't even want to hear it. Sometimes you're just like “You know what, I…I'm not even gonna listen” and you have to hear from some like third party that has nothing to do with you. Because, you know, those that are closest to us sometimes we feel like they're just, you know, boosting us up. And it's not authentic. [Christian]: Right. And then your wife says “That's what I've been saying to you.” And you're like “Oh sorry.”. [Chris]: Yeah. [Christian]: I get that [censored] all the time. My wife's like “Why wouldn't you just listen to me. That's what I was telling you.” And I am like “Oh [censored] you're right.” [Nathan]: Well that's…that's the funny flipside of being resilient. Another word for that could be stubborn. Or [laughter] hard-headed, you know. So what keeps you driving for it could also be what keeps you from listen to people. So … [Chris]: Yeah I think not so much that, but we have…we have this tendency that if something shakes us to our core. like that we're…if something happens it's that messes us up and throws us way off track, then we have this tendency to not exactly trust everything that we've done, up until that point 100%. So if there's something…if there's something that's in our core circle that's telling us something and then whatever happens throws us off our game, then we're gonna immediately have a certain distrust for this. And we're gonna go to an outside source to verify whether we're right or wrong. And once we do that, if we verify “You know what, what we've been doing is right.” then we come back to that circle and like “You know what, everything here is good.” We're happy. If something's wrong then we're gonna come back to that circle and be like “Wait what the [censored] is going on here? Like why…why are you saying this. Or, you know, why didn't…why…” You get it. Yeah it's…it's not just about listening to those that are closest to us. It's a mental thing. Like if something…mentally we've got to recenter ourselves. [Christian]: It sounds like you're saying that insecurity creeps in, depending on where we feel like things went wrong. [Chris]: Yeah definitely. And I mean it all depends on whatever happens. Right. because sometimes it's something small and it's not a big deal and it maybe, you know, maybe it's something that we're just disappointed in, and it's gonna take us, you know, a few minutes to get over. Or maybe it's something…maybe it's a personal attack or something that a relative is going in, the new agents is going. You're not making any money. You need to stop. Right. This is…you're…you're wasting your time, you're wasting your money, you're wasting our money, if it's a spouse. You know, even if you're doing the right things you may have not planned long enough. Nothing ever happens fast enough. Nothing ever happens, you know, the way that we want it. So you've got to kind of have that margin of error that you can work with. [Christian]: Sure and when you come into with…realistic expectations. Right. I mean so much of what happens in relationships that goes wrong, or getting in a rut that…that, you know, the reason we get there is because expectations are unmet, or our situation changes. You know, like if…if we think is gonna be easy and it's not, you know, we get in a rut. If, you know, we expect to make more money in the first quarter than we did, you know, it's easy getting in a rut. I mean it's just kind of…and not letting those quote failures drive you or dictate you. Because I mean what, you know, one man's failures is another person's learning, try opportunity. Yeah and that's something I've had to learn. Is like theoretically I understood. You know, as this ethereal concept I understood that failure was inevitable, and I need to be able to learn from that. But than going through that, that's experientially a lot different.  [Nathan]: So I need to get over this whole thing of how my job interferes me living my best life. [Chris]: You have the one job that you not interfere with you living your best life. [Nathan]: I don't have a job.  [Christian]: This is coming from the guy who's taken like several vacation this month to go down to…[crosstalk] [Nathan]: I know. I know. Listen you…listen I don't even have a job. I have…I do something I enjoy and love. I'm fortunate that I don't even do it as a job. I get to do what I enjoy. [Chris]: That's good. [Christian]: Yeah well let's…let's take us a little deeper and more personal. I mean Nate you kind of brought up the subject, cuz this last couple weeks have been pretty rough for you. I mean what have you found to be helpful kind of getting out of this rut for you? [Chris]: And first do you need to lay down on the therapist couch and put five cents in the jar? [Nathan]: No. Again it's…what's been helpful for me I mean again it's…I think, you know, what's the old saying? You know, you you're the average of the five people you spend the most time around. So I think it's also about the people you surround yourselves with. And that, you know, when you do get in that, they'll help you with that. You know, or they'll, you know, they'll they're kind of champion you and…and support you to say, you know, “Hey yeah…” You know, when you say “I'm in a rut or I'm this” they'll…they'll boost those spirits.  And it won't be an ego boost. It won't be one of those things like “You're the best thing in the world next to cotton candy.” But they know how to push you in the right direction to support you. And I think that's what…having that support is important. And I mean that ranges from colleagues that I have, to neighbors, to a wife. Like, you know, it's…it's all those things. You know, it…it makes, you know, surviving that period of time easier.  And…and sometimes you just need that outer push. And you also need it…I think you need the people around you that are honest with you. You know, what I mean? [Chris]: You don't need “Yes men. Yes.” [Nathan]: Yeah right. Yeah you need somebody to go tell you the truth. I mean that's, you know, that's, you know, my friends, the people I surround myself with will tell me, you know, what they think. And…and sometimes I don't want to hear it. [censored] A lot of times I don't want to hear it. But it is what I needed to hear. [Christian]: Sure. No one likes hearing the hard truth. [Nathan]: Yeah, no you know. [Chris]: But to be able to appreciate it though when it's in front of you. [Nathan]: Yeah. Yeah you're right. [Chris]: That's one of the hard…the hardest thing that I've found is when, you know, getting that criticism. Whe…when you just want to wall up and go into like active defence mode. Like just letting your body language relax. Having, you know, open gestures and trying to be open-minded to put yourself in the other person's shoes, and see what they're seeing.  [Nathan]: Right. [Chris]: And then trying to see if there's some corrective action that needs to be made there. That's…that's hard when you just go into like “Alright go ahead, give me the feedback because it's rare that I ever get feedback like this. So, you know, take advantage of it while you can.” [Christian]: Sure. Well it can be challenging too because, you know, no one's perfect and no feedback is gonna be perfect. So you have to like decide “OK what's an honest truth that I need to hear” versus “OK that part is kind of [censored]. I'm gonna not take that, you know, what I'll take, you know, kind of not throw the baby off the bathwater.” Like taking the truth where you find it whether that's in, you know, quote a rival or enemy, or that's in someone who's, you know, really close to you and has your best interest at mind. You know, like that could be…it can be challenging. Because, you know, typically I find that if you're playing it safe, there's gonna be a lot less friction and a lot less controversy and criticism. If you're really pushing the bounds, that's when things get tough and people can get ugly. So… [Chris]: Yeah. [Nathan]: You know, I know how to…at least I know how to do it. I know how to have a fight with myself. If that makes any sense. You find out [crosstalk] Yeah I know how to like… [Chris]: Elaborate on that. [Christian]: Yes do. [Nathan]: Because you've got to be willing to call your own [censored]. Right. You've got to be willing to kind of punch yourself in the face. Right. you've got to be… [Christian]: I need to watch conversations with you. [Nathan]: Yeah. Right. That's a staff meeting. Remember? It again it's, you know, you…it's like…I mean it sounds crazy but it's having that conversation in your head of “Hey Nathan, stop being a pussy and do what you know, what you need to do. Get your [censored] up off the couch. Or wake up on time. Or eat right. Or whatever it is. You're not doing these things. Stop…stop [censored] yourself.” And just having that honest, you know, that David Goggin [phonetics] said, you know, “You got to be able to look that man in the mirror.” Right. And that man in the mirror is, you know, me. And so if you can't have that honest fight, dialogue with yourself internally, I don't think it matters what anybody tells you then. [Christian]: Well the starting place for that is being self-aware. Like if you don't know yourself like you're gonna have a real tough time having that honest conversation. [Nathan]: Well most people can't do that though. They live in some [censored] fairyland. [Christian]: Well yeah, you know, I mean we all have our blind spots. Some people are more aware than…than others, you know. [crosstalk] The most important thing in life is…is being honest about that, you know.  [Nathan]: Right. Sorry. I don't know. You gotta find what works for you. I know what works for me. [Christian]: Yeah you…you be unique. [Nathan]: I'm good at doing that. Chris are we gonna wrap it up? [Chris]: Yeah so I think we…we hit on some good points. The…I think no matter where you are in your career you're gonna get hit with something that's gonna throw you off your game. You're gonna…you're gonna have a Nate moment where you got to be in front of the mirror and you got to kick yourself in the [censored].  You know, one of the things that I tell some of the new agents is, you're always gonna have a boss. And even when you're self-employed you still have a boss. It's the person in the mirror. And who do you want to work for? Do you want to work for a strong leader? Somebody who's going to step up and challenge the things that needs to be challenged to make sure that things are getting done that need to be done? Somebody that's gonna keep it on track? Or do you want to work for somebody who is just very lackadaisical and doesn't really care when you clock in?  And you have a boss, whether you're working for somebody else or yourself. So it's just a matter of making sure that you're doing the right things for you. When you get stuck in a rut, you got to pull yourself out of it. One way or another.  [Nathan]: Yeah, you know, Henry David Thoreau [phonetics] comes to mind. Sorry. Pulling out the big gun. But, you know, he said “What lies…what lies ahead of us and what lies behind us are small matters compared to what lies within us. And when you bring what's within you, out into the world, great things happen.” Right so, you know, I think you gotta remember what's inside. [Chris]: We need to set up Nate's…Nate's motivational quotes of the week. [Christian]: I know that's good. That's a good one. And as kind of closing thoughts…kind of reflecting on our conversation here. You know, obviously people's struggles are vary based on them, their personality, situation and what not. A lot of we've been saying is, you know, kind of “Don't give up. Keep trying. Push harder.” Yeah that kind of stuff. But I also want to say that it's not entirely up to you or it's not just about working hard or trying harder. Because sometimes, you know, you push too hard and you work too much and you get sick. And, you know, your body forces you to…to take a break. So I know for me one thing that's rejuvenating, and it can help me get out of a rut sometimes even when I feel like my rut is I have too much to do, is to act…intentionally take a break. Spend more time with the family. Unplug from work. Now some agents, you know, err on that side too much. Where, you know, spend too much time…they spend too much time relaxing. And not enough time working. I don't think that's our problem. And I think that's a lot of agents problems.  But give yourself permission to take a break, rejuvenate, spend time with family, you know, not always be…be working. Because sometimes that's all it takes to get out of a rut.  [Chris]: I couldn't agree with you more. And, you know, it's…sometimes it's hard for…for agents to take off, you know, an entire week from work. Just do a few long weekends every now and then. You don't have to…you don't have to take off a week or two weeks. Sometimes that's…that's not realistic. But make sure that your mental health is in check. And that you're taking some time to decompress and unwind and put things in perspective. What I've found is that when…when I'm able to do that, I'll come back with some new ideas. Because I'm not thinking about, you know, the day-to-day. I'll be able to just kind of, you know, day dream. Whatever it is. Read a good book and come back with, you know, a new perspective on what we're doing. So couldn't agree more with you Christian. Nate great points.  Everybody thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of re:Think Real Estate. If you haven't already ,please go to the website which is rtrepodcast.com. sign up for the newsletter so you never miss an episode, whenever we drop one, which is every single week. Thanks for tuning in everybody. We'll see you next week. [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Download this Episode This week we discuss how to keep a real estate transaction moving forward. Listen in to hear ways to keep a real estate transaction on track to closing. Rethink Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 30:43 RTRE 57 –  Keeping the Real Estate Transaction Under Control [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Hey everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. We're so happy to have you here this week. We've got Nate back. He is not selling homes right now. We've got Christian here and as always here to talk real estate and all thing real estate related. So just before getting started we were talking about how agents can control the transaction better and make deals go smoothly for our clients. Nate you are always taking listings. What are some things that you are doing to make sure that you are on top of the transaction? [Nathan]: Well again I was start thinking about this a little bit more before we got to recording here but I…again I think you as an individual…we all have different types of personalities but it also setting an expectation to our client. Right. Whether you are the list side or the buy side but you have to set that tone up front.  I am a little bit of a controller. Actually a lot but I like to control the situation. You have to have confidence and knowledge in what you're doing to do all that but that is the way I operate. Most of my clients appreciate that. And the reason I brought this us is because I have got a buddy I met the other day. He is a lender and another lender he knew was taking a beating because unfortunately buyers are liars and this buyers agent is calling and is literally in Ethany [phonetics] and all over the phone. And you know at a certain point you gotta tell a client you know whether you're the agent or you are the agent or the client and your client is the buyer or lister, you gotta have control over the certain things you can't do.  For that lender the agent was his client, I would have fired him. I wouldn't have taken that you know, it is just the way it goes. Same thing, I don't tolerate certain things from my clients. I mean we call it respect. You know a lot of people like to whine in our business but it is OK to lose a client. It is OK not to get every client. And I think we often forget that. It is kind of one of that win at all cost mentality maybe. I don't like that. [Chris]: And I think if you are winning at all cost you are not factoring in what makes this industry fun, it is being able to enjoy it. [Nathan]: Yeah. [Chris]: So obviously yeah I mean I feel like you are at the point in your career where yeah you can choose and have the option to fire your clients. But why was it…why do you think it got to that point in the transaction where the agent was calling and cursing at the lender? [Nathan]: Again, you know, I have said this before in our podcast. We want to be emotional. And I have always…I think the best thing I was ever taught when I got in this industry is to take my emotion out of it. [Chris]: Amen to that. [Nathan]: We realtors…You know I am gonna beat us up but as I have said the large majority we just love to feel so important, right? We love to know that “Hey look at me, hey look at me. I am an awesome, awesome relator. I am an awesome realtor”. Like… [Chris]: “Let me tell you about me. Let me tell you about me. It is all about me. Really what do you think about me”.  [Nathan]: Yeah. And so take the emotion out of it. You know, I don't know. [Christian]: Why do you…why do you suppose…I mean I have my thoughts on this. Why do you suppose he thought it was acceptable and call the lender and cuss him out and get all emotional about it? [Nathan]: Well the guy is an [censored] [laughter]. If he were listening, that is what I would tell him. Right.  [Christian]: OK.  [Nathan]: Bottom line is whether we are in realty or not you don't treat other people that way. Like you know… [Christian]: Why… [Nathan]: Yeah why did he treat somebody that way? Probably because he had really bad parents I don't know. [laughter]. [Christian]: Yeah I mean… [Chris]: A lot of people don't think about other people as actual beings. Human. I think that si the problem. [Christian]: I mean and I am on that. Obviously treat people as humans. Treat them with respect. But you know when it comes to like being professional in this industry I mean there is a lot of things that I like to push back on in industry like you know our job is to be the rock when our clients are emotional and deals you know on the brink of falling apart. I mean if we get emotional I mean I don't know any of you…I mean I know you guys have kids. I know that when I am near my kid's emotions and he is getting all ramped up and I am ramped up, that doesn't help. [Chris]: That makes it worse. [Christian]: Worse. But I mean if I can be a consistent calm and I am able to bring it back down to like “OK let's look at the reality of things if you know…” But I think a lot of agents kind of lose their cool because they think “I am advocating for my client. I am passionate when I am doing my job”. No no you are just being a [censored] and you are [censored] things up for your client.  [Nathan]: Yeah well said. [Chris]: So that gets to a great point on helping to control the conversation to control the transaction. Is controlling emotion. [Christian]: Definitely. [Chris]: Because if we can control our emotion and understand that when we are interacting with a client it is a very…they are in a heightened state of emotion. Right. Buying a…Buying a real estate parcel, right a house or a commercial or whatever it is, is extremely stressful for people because they have a lot invested in it. It is a lot of money. It is a big transaction.  So if something bad happens they are gonna think it is the worst thing in the world even if it is just you know a small hiccup. If something miniscule like good happens they are gonna think it is the best thing in the world. So if we can just kind of maintain a level of neither good nor bad on the emotional scale than holy hell like that really can do exactly what it does for your kid Christian. It is just like calm. When something bad goes on don't worry. Got it under control.  [Nathan]: I…you know I wasn't here the last episode we recorded because I had a deal going sideways. Even my client's father flew in from Boston. He was… [Chris]: To help the deal or to ruin the deal.  [Nathan]: Well at first I thought was honestly he was gonna ruin it. He was very emotional. It was his son's house. It is you know a lot of things going sideways on this.  [Chris]: Yeah. [Nathan]: And you know he called me “What are we gonna do?”. And now we're just [inaudible] we're great. We're good buddies now. But I said “We're gonna work the problem.” “What do you mean?” I said “We're gonna work the problem. Work the problem”. I mean we get…this is 3 days of craziness in my life here recently. And he called me and said “Man I gotta tell you kept your cool.” Yeah I did because me getting upset is exactly what Christian said. It is just gonna make everybody else upset.  .So I am..I am like the captain of the ship right. If I am freaking out everybody else is freaking out. I am you know…It was not fun. But we got through it. And now here is a gentleman that like he is my biggest advocate that I could possibly have now. But I think if I would have reacted the way he was initially reacting it was gonna be really, really bad 3 days for me. And it turned out an Ok 3 days, you know what I mean. [Chris]: Yeah you gotta control that. [Nathan]: Yeah. [Chris]: That is definitely one thing that agents can do in a transaction to kind of control the tone, control the pace. It is just control our own emotions because whether you want to believe it or not people are gonna mimic you. That is just how it happens. So obviously in the deal that you mentioned Nate the agent got upset with the lender. Obviously something at some point was not communicated clearly. Because if the lender had all the information and the agent had all the information and the buyer was given all the information than usually…I don't see a circumstance where somebody is gonna yell at somebody. Christian… [Christian]: It sounds like there is an unmet expectation there. I don't know. [Chris]: Yeah it sounds like it. So Christian when you are working with a buyer and you've got all these different wheels that are moving more so than with the seller, what are some things that you are doing to set expectation with people? [Christian]: Yeah I mean I say setting expectations specifically but communication in general that is probably the most important thing you can do as a real estate agent. [Chris]: I agree. [Nathan]: Yeah. [Christian]: Because you can be a terrible agent and totally incompetent but if you can communicate well you look like you're doing your job. You know now whether or not you do the back end and actually have knowledge and stuff that is all a different thing but you can be a rock star agent and know exactly what you're going but if your communication sucks your agent is gonna think you suck. [Chris]: It is like you're up on a show. You've got the curtain right and the clients are seeing what is in front not what is behind. [Christian]: right. And so that is a long answer to basically say I am mister kind of control freak I have got processes for everything. And part of the process is this template email as part of my CRM and first thing we do “Hey we are under contract. OK here is the 5 things you are gonna expect, here is what comes next, here is what we're gonna be doing for you in the next 3 days. Here is what you are gonna be doing”. You know. And after we get past our expectance commencing here is what it is gonna look like.  You know now that is not the only communication but that is like it sets the expectations up front you know because you get a contract and now there is a whole bunch of stuff going on and now they're stressing out. You know I can't be on the phone with them every 10 minutes you know and call them off the ledge. But if you set these expectations and say “This is what happens and this is what we're doing.” And you know checking in with them whenever there is a new bench mark. That has a calming effect you know on them as opposed to they don't hear anything. [Nathan]: Oh yeah you don't have to do a lot. I mean I send out Friday updates. That is what I call it. Friday updates. Every Friday I touch my clients no matter where we are. Just to give them something right. But I mean Christian you hit…all your points were spot on. Maybe you should just have the Christian Harris school of mentoring real estate agents [laughter]. All people can learn from that. [Chris]: Definitely. [Nathan]: You know communication is key. So…I am with you on that one. I am seeing great agents who know everything very well but they are horrible communicators. [Christian]: And to your point Nathan I mean, part of that communication is even if nothing is going on once a week touching in. I do my touching on Monday because typically like if you are working on a listing that is when it is going to be the most information that we can pass. So I do my updates on Mondays. The point is going on “Hey there is nothing going on and I just want you to know so that you are not wondering what is going on”.   [Chris]: Yeah for both of you to reach out and tell somebody nothing has changed, is one of the key differentiators that I have seen for people who are successful  and who are not. Because if you are having that communication level when nothing is happening they know “Oh OK nothing is happening but I am not hearing silence”. Because it is when the seller or the buyer, they hear silence that is when they get in their own head. And they start thinking “Well is this agent really doing things in my best interest. Are they really working on my behalf”. [Christian]: You have to interfere with the doubt and the emotions kind of you know. [Chris]: It comes in the silence. Exactly. Awesome so we're getting about halfway through the episode right now. I want to…we are trying out a new segment called re:Think Realty bonus thoughts where we have a topic to discuss that none of us have seen before. We're just pulling it out of an envelope. So this one is “Things seen in houses.” I am really not sure. I guess we're just supposed to talk about things that we have seen in houses. Things like “Where is Waldo”. Print frames. Eye level in the bathroom. Things like that. Blurred out dog face on a listing photo. [Christian]: So like funny or unique things that we have seen? Is that like… [Chris]: Yeah what are some unique things that you have seen in homes that you have listed? [Christian]: I have seen atrocious staging and unfortunately it was one of my first listings when I was trying out a stager so… [Chris]: Was it really? [Christian]: I had to fire that stager and the stager I use now was the person that came in like 2 days noticed and saved the day. But yeah I have seen that. I have noticed that you want to make sure you have a local stager. Here in Seattle we've got a couple of…Well we've got a lot of island like 107 islands. And one of the…I had a friend who had a mom who does staging so I gave her a hot but she was from one of the islands and she came over and did it and her idea of staging was weaker in floral prints. And it made it look like a grandma's house and it was not gonna fly in Seattle. [Chris]: Wow. [Christian]: That is unfortunately that was kind of my fault but that was something I have seen that was atrocious and made sure it didn't get to the listing photos and that was a learning experience. [crosstalk]. I am sorry? [Chris]: What do you got Nate? What is something you have seen in a house? [Nathan]: Guns. [laughter] [Christian]: Alright. [Nathan]: No, yeah I mean like literally guns just laying out around the house. [Chris]: Oh yeah I have seen that. [Nathan]: Like hand guns and rifles. And magazines in the club. I love guns don't get me wrong but I have got clients who have a kid with me and I am like “Holy snap” like you know what's going on. Like… [Christian]: That is a different world in Ohio I guess. [Chris]: It is not just Ohio we've got that in Georgia too. I have walked through homes and opened up a closet and boom there is a shotgun just sitting right there.  [Nathan]: That is…the oddest…[crosstalk] [Chris]: Yeah so one of the oddest things that I have ever seen in a home is in a basement they…put in multiple urinals in a restroom.  [Christian]: Like a restroom? [Chris]: Like a bathroom but then they…When they finished the basement they made it like a big bathroom with like 3 urinals but no divider. Really, really weird I have no idea why. [Christian]: Were they having like a fight club in the basement?  [Chris]: Yeah yeah it was really weird. I ended up not getting that listing. Because I don't think he liked what I said about marketing that. [Nathan]: Have you guys ever been in a home where they have pad locks on all the doors on the exterior like on a bedroom? [Chris]: I have seen that one. [Christian]: That is creepy as hell.  [Nathan]: I saw that a few weeks ago and I was like “That is really weird”.  [Chris]: Yeah.  [Christian]: I wouldn't want to know what they do. [Chris]: You are either doing some child abuse there or you just got a lot of guns in that room. [Christian]: It's sketchy. [Chris]: Whatever it is. Yeah it is in the living room [laughter]. “You are not getting into my living room. This is mine”. It could be like one of those…Did you all see the listing that it was making the rounds on a few weeks ago, the sex dungeon in the basement? [Nathan]: Awesome. [Chris]: Yeah I mean just things like that.  [Christian]: Yeah like the brokerage had some pretty fun stuff, the lighter side of real estate had some pretty funny things like that.  [Chris]: Yeah definitely the things that they come up with that is absolute hilarity. I can't believe that you know when Kellen [phonetics] when he did his deal to our show got picked up by lighter Real Estate. It was… [Christian]: That was awesome. [Chris]: It was in one of the shows. OK so yeah re:Think Real Estate bonus thoughts. Giving it a shot. Tell us what you think. Make sure you leave us a review on iTunes for anybody listening. I…shoot us a comment either on our Facebook page or on the website on rtrepodcast.com.  So back to today's topic which was the agent's control of the transaction. Where they can make a big impact. Nate what is one of the most impactful things that you find you are able to do for your clients outside of communication and setting expectations? [Nathan]: I don't know. This…I mean it sounds weird but just being upfront and honest. I feel like…I feel like there are so many agents that just are not forthcoming. Do you know what I mean? [Chris]: Yeah. [Nathan]: Again it is the win at all cost or lie at all cost just to get the listing. I mean I just went on a listing in an apartment a couple of weeks ago and she walked me up in the room and she said “Nate what do you think about this room”. I started to laugh and she said “What is funny?” And I said “This is a [censored] ugly room”.  And that is all [laughter] I said all these things in here and in the bathroom too and she starts laughing and I say “What is so funny Jane?” And she says “I have had 3 other agents in here and none of them have had the balls to tell me what I already knew.” [laughter]. She said “I love that you already told me that it is ugly”. She said “I know it is ugly but everybody else says this is gorgeous, this is lovely, we will do this to make it look like this”. She is like “It is an ugly room. Why won't somebody just tell me the truth?” And I told her the truth and guess who got the listing?  [Chris]: There you go. There you go. [Nathan]: Tell the truth. If they don't like the truth than they will hire somebody else that will tell them whatever lie they want to hear. [Chris]: And if you feel like you're not up to telling somebody “This is a [censored] ugly room”. You don't have to say it like that.  [Christian]: You can be more diplomatic to be honest. [Chris]: Yeah be more diplomatic. [Christian]: That is not Nate's style. [Nathan]: That is not my style lets be honest. [Chris]: Just so that our audience knows. You don't have to do it Nate's way. You can tell somebody “No this room may not be up to the aesthetics as the rest of the house. We probably won't focus our marketing efforts on this room”. [Christian]: Or “You can burn this room down”. Or something like that. [Chris]: Yeah. Or “We could put up some fumigation label outside so nobody comes in”. Whatever it may be, but yeah on that line with honestly I think one thing agents have sometimes gotten self-caught up in is when they find something that they don't know they will try and [censored] their way out of it. Instead of saying “I don't know, let me get you the answer. We will make sure that we do this the right way”.  And people feel like you know winning at all cost they want to feel like the expert they always want to be in the expert shoes, they don't want to step back and admit you know, “There might be something I don't know here”. You know that is kind of one thing that I think goes a long way in controlling the transaction is don't be afraid to admit where there is something that you haven't dealt with. That is why it is important to have a good team unless you are Nate. In which case you are solo.  But if you've got a good team or resources or you know even friends and people that you respect in the industry and people that you can reach out to as long as they're you know you are following your broker's direction, you are making sure that everything is legal and ethical. I don't think we have to cover that at this stage in the game.  But yeah just making sure that where your shortcoming are you are not [censored] through them. Christian what do you think are some things that you now can help control the situation a little bit more throughout the transaction especially due diligence, getting into financing and getting up to the posing table? [Christian]: Sure so I mean there is obviously like a minimum standard of what an agent has to do. I am more like how much can I do to help an agent. You know. So for us you know I mean like we all know that is…you know good buyers. You know it is the buyers responsibility as part of their…you know once they get a contract and they're talking to a lender and get all the documents they need and stuff. They need to reach to interns company and get a policy in place and that kind of stuff.  But like that is not really on our shoulders but I still make it a point to you know a day or 2 after to send out an email and say “Hey this is a reminder, these is the things that you need to do. Make sure you get your lenders documents at town manor, make sure you get a quote on home insurance because they can't hold an appraisal before you do”. You know just stuff that is not necessarily in my ball part but it helps them know that, like “These are things that you need to do as part of the process”.  [Chris]: Yeah and going an extra mile is huge. We've got a lot of good feedback ever since we started implementing move easy, which ties into our transaction management system. So move easy when our agents mark that their client is under contract they get this digital check list and resource bank that tells them everything that they need to do during the move from “Don't forget to order your moving supplies, don't forget to line up your child care, you're getting all your pet immunizations” whatever it might be. We put all of it in a checklist and our agents…our clients seem to love it. For those that take advantage of it. [Christian]: And that as I recall it is free for agents right? [Chris]: Well it has to be set up on a brokerage level but yes it is free. [Christian]: So talk to your broker about setting it up for you. Or if you do something like client giant you know per agent they do kind of that concierge. They take care of all your utilities and that is helpful too. [Chris]: That's awesome yeah. And that was Jay O'Brien [phonetics] we had him on last year. Definitely a great episode to go and listen to about providing what was it 7 start service in a 3 start industry? [Christian]: Yes. 5 start service and 3 star…7 start... [Nathan]: 7 star… [Chris]: 7 star in a 3 star. [Christian]: It's a good… [Chris]: Yeah it's a good one. He's a really good person to listen to as well.  [Christian]: Yeah for the service yeah.  [Chris]: Yeah I mean there is so many things that we can do to go above and beyond. You know in Georgia the typical transaction is byer gets contract. Contract gets due diligence. Due diligence gets home inspection. After home inspection there is no other inspection done. They may be right on. I have never seen anybody do a lot of base paint test. They just kind of waive that and you know that is it.  But there is so many other things that we can do. We can advise for air quality testing if there are allergies present which that I have seen happen. Partnering them with an insurance agent to make sure that the home is insurable and check for what the previous claims are. Like getting a clue report pulled. All of these things are huge and can make a big impact in not only your client experience but also controlling the situation, making sure that things are discovered before we get too far. So that at the last minute when we get to the closing table things are reared in their ugly head.  [Christian]: So speaking of kind of above and beyond just us doing our jobs for our clients, I mean what are you guys thoughts about health warranties? Typically I have written those off because they are so limited typically. As far as what they replace in the time frame. But like recently I helped a friend of mine buy a house kind of outside of my normal area a little farther outside in Takoma. And the recommended inspector from some of my you know, agent friends down there, they actually include a very inclusive home warranty that I was very impressed with.  And no extra charge you know like because they already did the inspection on the roof so they guarantee the roof is gonna hold for 5 years and appliances for this long and you know all these extra stuff that seems like a real value add for no additional money either to your pocket or out of their pocket. But what are you guys thoughts on hat? [Nathan]: I mean here in Ohio it is long. A seller typically pays for home warranty. I like them but I like to choose it because there are certain home warranties that have what they are called caps or limitations on what they will cover. And if you know those I don't think that is a good value. The ones that I typically go with on home warranty has no caps. The other side of it form a listing side is they have seller protection from the moment we put that house on the market, the items are covered in warranty. But I think you have to articulate to your client that a home warranty is good for your major stuff. [Chris]: Yeah sure. [Nathan]: Your HVAC furnace. [Chris]: Sometimes. [Nathan]: Yeah well OK again here they're smart like don't go and have a home warranty claim when you had an inspection that said it was bad right. That is not the way to do it so… [Chris]: And on top of that if you have a 25 year old HVAC system it is not gonna pay for a brand new system if it [censored] out. It will have a maximum amount that it will pay towards but on a 25 year old system it is gonna not cover that switch over from you know what was it our 20 to now 4 10A or whatever the new coolant is. So you got explain that to your clients.  Again back to what Nate was saying. Expectation setting. Back to what Christian was saying. Expectation setting. Making sure that everybody understands where the value is when they get it. [Christian]: So what you're saying is that home warranty can be of value just make sure you do your research that is actually a quality home warranty that provides something. [Chris]: Yeah. [Nathan]: 100%. [Chris]: On the first home that my wife and I ever purchased, 3 months in the stove shorted out. It came out 50 dollar call, rewired the entire thing and it worked fine. It is still in that home. But that was a lot less than it would have been you know to have you know a new stove or bring out an electrician so it has its values. [Nathan]: Yeah yeah, I just had to call a client and we were 2 days outside of closing an she was the seller and the hot water tank failed. We had seller protection on it. Guess what 65 dollar call, brand new hot water tank. [Chris]: There you go. [Christian]: Save your 500 dollars. [Nathan]: Saved probably more than that and you know she was already stressed out and called the client. I said “Let's have home warranty take care of that”. Again if you know what you're getting can be a great value. But… [Chris]: Absolutely.  [Nathan]: There are a lot of junk ones. [Chris]: And all of this…yeah all of this goes in line with taking control of the transaction and making sure that we are directing it in a way to get it to the closing table and we are directing it in a way that is in our client's best interest.  [Christian]: Yeah and speaking of staying in control of that transaction one of the things that I see…I moved to a whole other topic on this whole episode, but is that you know what do you do to continue to provide value and stay in front of your clients after closed? Or what the agent is gonna feel at that? [Nathan]: That is a whole episode.  [Chris]: Yeah that is a whole episode. Why don't we get into that next week [laughter]?  [Christian]: OK well I will give a little teaser than. [Chris]: Let's give a teaser and we will get into it next week.  [Christian]: What we started to do is a sort of called home button and that has been great because it is cheap. Right now it is only 25 dollars. You know, to use it and you get it for 500 clients. But basically it provides every month to your home buyer, it provides them with an automated like “Here is what your home is worth and if you refine,  this is what it would look like, if you are AIRBNBed one of your rooms this is the value if you added 300 dollars a month extra payment you know you would pay this much less over the course of yadayada”. So basically provides all these really easy to understand analytics for a client's house that is branded to you.  [Chris]: Awesome.  [Christian]: And instead of you know you sending out some junk email drip thing every month where they probably don't even look at, here is something that directly relates to their house that they're probably gonna look at it. And you can see all the analytics and back end when they're click on it. [Chris]: Thanks for tuning into re:Think Real Estate. Make sure you join us next week as we talk about how to provide value post-closing and control that relationship into the future. Christian you gave a great teaser on that. For anybody who hasn't please go to rtrepodcast.com. Sign up for the newsletter so you never miss when we drop an episode and leave us a 5-star review on iTunes. Have a great day everyone.  [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Download this Episode In today's episode Chris and Christian briefly discuss their thoughts on home automation and smart technology. Let us know what smart technology you prefer in the comments! Rethink Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 13:51 RTRE 56 –  Where's Tech Going? [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. I am Chris Lazarus here with Christian Harris. My man Nate is again out selling homes so he can't be with us here today. But we do want to make sure you're here with us getting the re:Think Real Estate treatment every Monday. So thanks for tuning in. Christian what is going on my man? [Christian]: Hi, I was just thinking about the future of the business and stuff and things and… [Chris]: Yeah what do you think… [Christian]: Things I am not doing because… [Chris]: What do you think it will be like in the future? Take a wild guess. [Christian]: Well I mean I spend a lot of time thinking about marketing, positioning that kind of stuff. [Chris]: OK. [Christian]: You know about 10 years ago podcasting was the new rage. You know it seems like real estate is finally as an industry is catching on to maybe podcasting as a viable medium. We have… [Chris]: Viable I don't know. It is a medium.  [Christian]: Viable like I mean the interwebs [phonetics]. It is not going anywhere. It might be here to stay. [Chris]: Yeah it is here to stay. [Christian]: Yeah you know I have been doing my own podcast for almost 3 years now and I felt like when I started that I was kind of like behind the curb. But I was just kind of thinking you know kind of the newer trends, and I think that there is a big…there is gonna a big push maybe or you know the masses are gonna start adopting kind of the smart homes stuff as opposed to just…I think previously it has been just kind of the more tech savvy people coming out of the fringes.  But I think with Alexa and Echos and Google homes and stuff become more popular as I think that audio content is gonna start becoming you know audio first content is gonna start becoming huge you know. I mean video is just so great but the problem with videos is you've gotta be dedicated to watching that video. And it is the only thing you can do. While audio podcasts are all flash briefing all that stuff that you can be doing something else. You could be driving a car or in your home you can be working. So I think it can be more…as our attention it continues to be demanded in multiple directions so it is gonna be more of a push in adoption for audio first stuff. [Chris]: Like audiobooks right?  [Christian]: What is that? [Chris]: It is like audio books. You just…The way our cars work now with the Bluetooth the moment you get out of the car it pauses, when you get back into the car it keeps going. You know, and you can be driving down the road of in your office and it just the continuity it stops and goes and keeps going and you are able to just load more content while you are doing other thing.  [Christian]: Yeap, exactly you know I was thinking about how this relate to real estate. You know how with the help of an agent or brokerage. And I think it is you know it could be another piece of the content marketing, positioning piece. You know, for me I have been thinking like OK you know I want to start like an Alexa flash briefing, right.  You know those are basically mini 1 to 2 minute…think of them as mini podcast and so you know if you have Alexa at home or Echo you could say…you could enable these skills and say you know, “Alexa play…play my flash briefings for the day”. And what would be a set up 1 minute Gary V sample and then you know social marketing with Chelsey Pites [phonetics] you know or whoever you subscribe to it will give you the little 1 minute blur you know. And the thing that is different about them is that you can't go back. It is kind of like it is today and that is it.  [Chris]: Yeah. [Christian]: So it is very try and forget but I am thinking like if this starts becoming the norm, the thing, you know if people start going to their Alexa for “Hey Alexa what is the weather, what is the traffic, what is the housing market doing?”. You know like there is gonna be more and more skills built out you know by brokerages, by industry leaders, by marketers you know, all that kind of stuff.  So how can you get in front of that? Because right now there is not very much in the real estate space. You know the couple I know about gear towards the real estate agents, geared towards the industry not towards consumers. So what would that look like? You know. [Chris]: So I am not too familiar with like Alexa and Google Home. And all that because frankly I don't want anybody listening to me and I don't need more tech for my kids to interact with right now. [Christian]: But they are already listening. [Chris]: I know I know. [Christian]: Here. Everything [laughter]. [Chris]: Yeah well so probably. But…so we haven't gone on board with the smart home yet. Our home is dump. It was built in the 70s. It is as dump as dump can be. But I did see an article the other day about some technology that is gonna become an outleap next year. OK so mid to late 2020 and we have a ton of cool things on the horizon.  So, Apple is gonna come out with their glasses. And I saw a report on this. And the things are super lightweight and I can just imagine right in 5 or 10 years you are driving down the street or you are in a showing, and you've got your real estate app on your phone and as you walk through the house it is giving you all the details about every room. It is giving you all the updates. You are driving down the street and there is a house for sale and just in your glasses, on your display it is telling you all the price, the bath and bed features, you know.  That is gonna be the world that we live in in a few years. It's…we're not far away from it and you know technology is exponentially increasing. That is not slowing down anytime soon. So like it's gonna be crazy where this all goes. I don't know about Alexa and all that. [Christian]: Sure. [Chris]: But you're probably right, pretty soon I am sure I will probably have one too.  [Christian]: Yeah well possibly I mean you know, it is hard to tell where the trend is gonna go. Because you know, Google has their glass and that was a major flop. Now maybe it was just ahead of it's time and people weren't ready for it. Maybe it is a platform issue you know, whatever, but yeah we will see. I mean I am definitely seeing the audio…audio first medium catching traction with masses. [Chris]: Good. [Christian]: It is not nearly as rare as the people have you know Google Home or an Echo. [Chris]: Well if you are listening to this episode, tell your friends to listen to this too because podcasts are cool y'all. [Christian]: Yeah and so initially…so my journey into the smart homes started with the Google Home. Right. [Chris]: Yeah. [Christian]: Because I think its…we bought a new house and we bought a Nest. And when I bought it had like a have and for 20 bucks you could get to buy a Google Home. You know medium or whatever I am not sure.  [Chris]: Yeah why not. [Christian]: And I was thinking “Hey you know Google versus Amazon of course the Google one is gonna be able to do way more”. But it doesn't. Like it's kind of weak. So…But you know as I experimented with the Alexa app which you can actually download for your phone and essentially you know use the same…the exact same commands and just integrate with your house, I started enabling skills and messing around with that.  And I am like “OK well this is cool”. And so I bought one of the nicer Echos because it has a better speaker because I didn't realize…well the big thing is it is able to like “Hey play jazz music or … you know whatever and it will start playing you know a Spotify channel or you know if it is Google it will play Google play or you know an Echo it will play your Amazon music.  And so you essentially have you know these diverse play list at your fingertips and so I wanted a decent sounding stereo and like the Sonos are actually integrated with the…with the Alexa platform.  [Chris]: The Sonos speaker? [Christian]: Yes. So there are some cool options out there but like that's what we use it for a lot but once you start getting like smart plugs and a Nest of [inaudible] stuff you can set up essentially you know, I don't know, work flows or what do they call it. Something different on the platform. But to say you know, “Alexa good morning and do you have a turn on your lights and start a soft jazz music and turn your heat up” or you know whatever you program it to do. You know. Now we could just make the argument “Hey we are getting lazy”.  But I think the future is going in that direction where I think the people are having to pull out their phones or their watches and like touch the screen is gonna become antiquated and too much of a pain. And they much really just be able to say “Hey do this thing” and have an app launch or have a series of functions happen. So for… [Chris]: Absolutely. [Christian]: So for real estate I think there is some huge, huge… [Chris]: And it is kind of cool. Like “Amazon prepare my house for a showing” and then everything kicks on.. the oil diffuser starts making it smell like cookies. The lighting dims, the music is playing. Like that would be a pretty cool Alexa app. [Christian]: Well yeah I mean and that is if you have a smart phone. It is easy I mean. [Chris]: Yeah. [Christian]: Set the workflow for this trigger starts playing this music station and let them. I think for real estate you know my point in this is I think it is starting to get beyond novelty to practical and mainstream. And I think the real estates… [Chris]: And it is inexpensive enough to do that now. [Christian]: Right exactly I mean there are nicer…I think the…I think the Echo starts at 40 bucks and the one I have has a decent speaker and it is like 110. You know like you spend hundreds on the Sonos but you know if you want a rocking audio system but…I think for real estate there is opportunities for things like flash briefings and different things that would put you as a leader in technology in providing value and giving up to the community.  You know it is just…And you could repurpose it from a Facebook live or Instagram live. Cut out the audio and there is your daily or weekly briefing or whatever, you know. So there is definitely ways to leverage content you are already creating for these new platforms to continue building your brand.  [Chris]: Sounds good. I will have to get on that Alexa new wagon. I am not there yet. We'll give it time. [Christian]: Yeah. [Chris]: Well I mean the only thing…[crosstalk]. Unfortunately you know my crystal ball is broken. [Christian]: Yeah is that why you are not rich?  [Chris]: Yeah it is one of those things you know where most predictions never come true but now it is like we are watching this app and… [Christian]: Sure. [Chris]: There is definitely something that happens over the next few years. And… [Christian]: Well right and I think the biggest challenge right now with where technology is, is lack of integration. Because you know Google has a proprietor thing. Amazon has theirs you know… [Chris]: They are gonna talk to each other. [Christian]: You know they're different IOT…internet…internet of things. You know I don't think there is a standard protocol so you will have to get stuff that is compatible otherwise you have 2 or  different systems that are smart separately but they don't integrate. Well that is more of a pain than it is worthy. You know. [Chris]: Yeah or you find some manufacturer that makes 2 versions. One that integrates with Alexa and one that integrates with Google. [Christian]: Sure. [Chris]: Pain in the butt. Well I mean it all makes sense. It is gonna be interesting to where this all goes. But I will be interested to see in a few years if you are not right, and that audio and flash briefings become a more important thing in real estate.  [Christian]: Well I am interested to hear what our listeners think. You know leave comment as in  the future how they are using this kind of leading edge technology whether that is audio or you know VR or AR you know. [Chris]: Absolutely. So please leave a comment. Let us know what you think. Send us a message. Contact us. Hit the form on the website rtrepodcast.com. Christian if you are right on this than maybe in the near future we need to step in some flash briefings together for the re:Think podcast.  [Christian]: Sounds good and you owe me a drink. [Chris]: Argh always. Get yourself over to Georgia and trust me drinks are on the house.  [Christian]: Alright. [Chris]: Alright everybody thank you so much for tuning in. This has been re:Think Real Estate. We'll catch you next week.  [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

On this weeks episode of reThink Real Estate, we discuss ways to clear your mind and focus on your business. There are hundreds of headlines vying for our attention which serve as little more than a distraction to our businesses. We discuss our thoughts on what to pay attention to and what to ignore so that our businesses don't suffer. Rethink Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 14:41 RTRE 55 –  Pay Attention to What Matters in Your Real Estate Business [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. I am Chris here with Christian. Nate can't join us today. He is too busy selling homes. What is going on Christian? [Christian]: Not much just running into the office after frantically dropping off my son at school and yeah trying to stay cool. What are we gonna talk about today? [Chris]: What is going on in real estate. There is some headlines out on Inman. Open Door picks up another 300 million dollars at a reported 3.8 billion dollar evaluation. Caldwell [phonetics] does some rebranding and agents how to become influencers.  [Christian]: Yeah I was really enjoying the comment section of the Caldwell [phonetics] branding. That is always gold you know seeing what people decide to what hill they decide to dive on [inaudible] [laughter] with rebranding and the broker decided to… [Chris]: Well brokerage that are not at and even agents…Everybody has an opinion and everybody wants to voice their opinion in trivial [censored]. I mean remember with NAR. NAR changed the logo last year. And it threw up such a sting that they changed it back.  [Christian]: Did they change it back? I didn't notice. [Chris]: Oh yeah yeah they…So… [Christian]: 100.000 down the drain. [Chris]: So they did a boxed R. The cube with the R on it. And then it threw such a sting that they got rid of it. They spend like 300 million dollars for some astronomical…  [Christian]: It was like 300.000. [Chris]: Yeah it was a lot of money. [Christian]: That's a lot of money for yeah, changing one R into a different type of R so… [Chris]: Yeah and then everybody hated it so… [Christian]: People do. It's funny as we're kind of going over the headlines of what is happening. What is getting all the buzz in real estate. You brought up a good point that all this stuff probably has nothing to do with my business or your business or any agents actually doing business. It's all distractions and shiny objects.  [Chris]: Yeah I mean for a…it gives people an excuse to not focus on doing what they need to do which is sell real estate. Or train their agents to sell real estate if you're a broker. You know it's like watching the local news right? It takes up a lot of time, but what is the same news every single day? Somebody died, somebody got robbed, something broke in the city and somebody is doing something crazy for consumers.  [Christian]: Sure. [Chris]: That is the same news every single day and people spend hours of their day, in the morning and the evening paying attention to that [censored]. [Christian]: Right. Well it is funny too I mean you know kind of running with that example. Because what we're talking about here is information, right? We're talking about our awareness of our world around us or what we considered the world around us. It is interesting if you do a little like kind of historic reading of like how technology changes, how we interact with each other and with technology you know like the value of information has changed from 100 plus years ago where the value was largely isolated to your local community. And it only had value if applied to your life directly. You know if like “What is the rainfall gonna be so I know what my crops are gonna be this year”. That's is what mattered. Nowadays most information is human neutral stories. Which means 99% of it has absolutely no bearing on your life whatsoever. [Chris]: What did…What did Breaderman [phonetics] write about today? And usually when he writes something it is pretty good. But you know like what is Zillow announcing. What evaluation is iBuyers gonna have now? And it all is… [Christian]: Sure in 10 years 60% of the market is gonna be iBuyers. So…That may or may not be true but what to do with my business today you know like some of that stuff can inform but by in large nothing comes of it and it doesn't really affect your stuff. Like you know so the question really becomes why do we get so easily distracted, wrapped around excel about stuff that doesn't help our clients or doesn't get us more business or doesn't grow our brokerage. It is just distractions… [Chris]: People need something to talk about. [Christian]: You mean today. Right. [Chris]: It gives people something to talk about at the water cooler. “Oh what about this? What about that?” But you know what, the water cooler doesn't make you money? Does it?  [Christian]: Yeah but you know it gives you that dopamine to be upset about something. Or enraged about something or worried. [Chris]: It allows people to feel about things that aren't important. [Christian]: Yeah. And I wouldn't say like these things aren't irrelevant. Necessary. But by in large it might affect things years down the road. But again you know it's energy. It's…You know you've got  a limited emotional and mental energy and response so much of it on Facebook or on this you know kind of what's the big distractor and whatever else.  As opposed to building something, doing our business, staying in our lane. Doing our thing. You know like when I was at a larger franchise yeah there is people shuffling around doing transactions but mostly it was people sitting around [censored] about other people's business or “Have you seen what that person is doing or that person is like”. What does that have to do with you? Like mind your own business you know.  [Chris]: “I think our broker is sleeping with the loan officer…[crosstalk]. I think our broker is sleeping with the loan officer”. “Really?” Yeah I mean think like that that those permeate offices and corrupt culture. And you know from a macro level it is important to understand where the industry is going. So that you know how to kind of steer and navigate the industry with your business. But for the most part every other day when you see a new evaluation all you need to know is venture capital funds are putting money at high buyers. That's it.  [Christian]: True. Yeah. Well for the average agent like you know if Compass is growing in a market or Open Door has you know some hundreds of million dollar you know the funding you know round fund how does that affect your business? You know maybe if your brokerage is thinking about the future and how you want to structure your business it could you know just looking at trends but I mean I think a lot of it comes back to you know, we've got limited time and resources. Why are we spending it on these things that don't directly impact us? [Chris]: It's easy. Because it is easy to talk about that. And it is harder to go in and put the work into growing our business and to talk about that. It's not…It's not cool to talk about the work that people don't want to do or that aren't doing. [Christian]: Trust me… [Chris]: And when you're at the water cooler and you're sitting there talking about “Oh I just made this call and that call” and people are like “Eh” and they clam up and they're crossing their arms because they don't talk about that because they're not making their calls. [Christian]: Sure. [Chris]: They're not out there prospecting. They're not talking about you know, the next best thing in growing their business. For a couple of reasons. So there is the idea of competition selling a lot of offices. They don't come up at their training and their culture from an abundant perspective. They think everybody is competing against one another and therefore they don't share ideas. And then you know the other side of that is they don't know what the [censored] they're doing. So they… [Christian]: I mean I think part of that…That is practically true but I think the other side of it is most agents know what they need to be doing but they're not willing to do it. [Chris]: Yeah. [Christian]: You know and so it comes down to why do so many agents hate being real estate agents [laughter]. You know they're not willing to like do the work. You know and thinking about this from a brokerage perspective, you know like I have had to think about whether the different models we could have. How much do we provide? Do we provide leads? Do we just provide systems? Do we provide nothing? You know and we try to do like this middle road of competitive commission split with the essential tools to help them be successful with serving their clients. [Chris]: Yeah.  [Christian]: But you know than there are some models that like provide you know leads and this and that. You know initially that is like “OK well that would be great if we got to a point when there is like abundance of incoming you know business that we could refer at those leads or whatever”. But at the end of the day if a brokerage is providing all that to their agents than what the hell do you need agents for if they're not…I mean what is their job if they can't even provide their own business? [Chris]: A brokerage at that point becomes a big team.  [Christian]: Right because essentially I mean that is what you're doing if you're providing leads. You're doing everything for that agent. They're just sitting there you know. [Chris]: Wrapped up and happy. [Christian]: Yeah they get it handed to them. It's like I mean the point of brining that up is you know what is the role of an agent if they're not willing to like do anything. If they're not willing to provide their own business, grow their business. Find new clients. You know than there can be a lot of different ways. That's not just I mean your classic cold call meeting. I mean you can do so many different things. But the point of it is you have to be doing certain actions everyday to move that ball forward. [Chris]: Oh yeah.  [Christian]: If they're not sure how to spend their time talking about the thread of Open Door or Compass or the NAR or Lumion [phonetics] Legal Battle or how that may change the industry like yeah that is interesting but it's not gonna help you in your business today, you know.  [Chris]: Definitely. I think that you hit it right on the money. If it is not gonna help you in your business today I don't think you need to be paying that much attention to it. Get back. Put the horse blinders on. Look down. One step in front of the other. And you know what a lot of agents don't do is they don't go out and try new things. They will just sit there and look at what other people are doing but they don't actually go out and try something on their own. [Christian]: Well they'll poop on it. They're gonna be like “Oh that is the stupidest thing ever. Until it starts working and they try to copy it. [Chris]: There was a…there was a video that I saw going around and you know gets mixed reactions. There is an agent. Erica Gotiwolf [phonetics] she did a home tour where her entire body was blurred out and looked like she was naked. I am sure she wasn't but she well picture it was naked doing a naked home tour.  A couple of days having that video out, property is under contract. She has 5 listing appointments and 2 referrals. There was a lot of negative feedback on that video but you know what half of the people really thought she was ballsy for doing it. And she got additional business out of it. You know I shared that example with my agents this morning. And low and behold they you know I think a light clicked and they started realizing you know what not everybody has to love what I am gonna do in order to be successful at this. So… [Christian]: Well and the reality is if you're doing something different or better you're probably getting negative feedback than positive. [Chris]: Definitely. [Christian]: And you just have to…You have to know that the people who you know the haters are people who are gonna be stuck in mud and go and hate anything that is new. Don't worry about them. You know if you're doing you know Sutton you know naked home tours, if the goal is to get more eyes in that listing for your client, that is affective. You know you called the stick or, you know, whatever but it was effective and aligned her wish people who likes the outside of the box marketing ideas so got her more business for her ideal client base. Who cares what people who don't understand that think. [Chris]: Absolutely. So I think the whole point of this episode is don't pay attention to everything that is in the headlines in real estate because it is going to distract you everyday. It's all the same stuff. Somebody has gotten more of an evaluation. Somebody is telling you how you can become an influencer. Somebody is saying that this company did something else. Focus on your business and just the how…if you pay enough attention to the headlines you don't understand where the industry is going. Don't worry about all the shiny objects. [Christian]: I mean at the end of the day I wanna say…You know I don't want to say “Don't pay attention to this stuff” but just be intentional about how much time you're spending. I mean I know like people who are really intentional and really killing it on social media they're not doing it that way because they're on social media all day but they're doing it because “This half hour is dedicated to me building my social media” and they don't touch it the rest of the day. So they're actually productive. Do the same thing with these headlines. “OK here is my half hour to read the most sensational headlines and then move on to my day”.  [Chris]: All right. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of re:Think Real Estate. Stick with us. Go to rtrepodcast.com. Make sure you sign up for our newsletter so you get notified every time a new episode drops. Thank you so much for tuning in and please make sure that you give us a 5-start review on iTunes. We'll catch you next week.  [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Download this Episode It's easy to for some agents to get along well with their peers. For others, not so much. Tune in today as we discuss the skills necessary to be a pro that other pros want to be around. Here are the secrets to playing nice in the sandbox. The rules are simple. Play nice in the sand box. Rethink Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 31:05 RTRE 36 –  Erica Ramus on Promoting Women Leaders [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Hi everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. I am your host Chris Lazarus here with Nathan White, Christian Harris. Guys how are you? [Christian]: Hey. [Nathan]: Hey, I am fantastic and beautiful. [Chris]: Hey Nate how is that CRM going? [Nathan]: I knew that was coming why didn't I [inaudible] [laughter]. The think about my CRM. I am embarrassed. I swear people it is happening. It is going to get out of my head and… [Christian]: We do know you swear a lot. [Chris]: Yeah you do swear a lot. [Nathan]: Yes I am going like…Man it's gonna be bad. It's gonna be bad in my office. I am gonna have to shut the door. There is going to be a lot of curse words probably. Probably. But you know I drink a lot of caffeine and I swear a lot people, if you don't know. So yeah we're getting there. It is process right. So I should…The episode after this hands down I will give you some feedback. [Chris]: It's OK. We're gonna keep your feet to the fire. [Christian]: Focus that caffeine and rage to getting your CRM up and running. [Chris]: Definitely. So.. [Nathan]: Yeah I am going to. [Chris]: For everybody tuning in if you get a chance, if you haven't already. Go to and check out our website and our new newsletter at rtrepodcast.com. If you go there, you can click on the little box. Type in your name and email address and every week when we launch a new episode you will be notified. So this week we have an amazing guest. Her name is Erica Ramus. She is the broker owner and magic maker at Ramus Realty. Erica welcome. [Erica]: Thanks guys. [Chris]: It's great to have you on. For our agents who are not in your neck of the woods, why don't you tell us a bit about you and your company? [Erica]: Sure. I am the broker of a small independent boutique company in rural Pennsylvania. I run the middle of the North East. And so most of the cities around. I am very, very wear off. And we have less than 10 agents. I have 8 agents and me and an apprentice in the office. And while we are small in boutique we are mighty. So, we have only 8 people in the office but we have 13% market share.  [Chris]: What? [Erica]: Yeah. The largest companies in the area have 15, 20 and 80 agents. And consistently we have…typically we have…I checked yesterday. We have 40 sites pending currently. And the biggest company has 75.  [Chris]: Wow. That is incredible. [Erica]: So highly productive.  [Chris]: Very highly productive. So when we first met it was…You know it feels like this entire podcast is right around the Inman crowd because Erica and I we met out at Inman. Christian was there also when we were doing the…feeding the homeless. Before the conference started and we were at the same panel about being a broker and non-producing.  So you operate your brokerage a little bit different than I do. Which is you know I am the trainer right I don't go and do really anything. I hope people build their own careers. Tell us a little bit about how your office is run. How are…how are you able to obtain 13% market share with only 8 agents under you? [Erica]: I think of my office as running almost like a super team.  [Chris]: OK. [Erica]: So my name is on the door and before I was in real estate I was a magazine publisher. And I had multiple magazines which…one was a local scoop living magazine. So you probably have Atlanta Life or Atlanta Living or Seattle Living. Something like that. [Chris]: Yeah. [Erica]: So I started that and everybody in town knew me. I was the magazine lady. I was selling ads. And hawking my magazine. And than I got into real estate so when I got in I was almost an immediate success because everybody already knew my face. And I used the magazine to my benefit as well. All of my houses of course were advertised in my own magazine. [Chris]: Nice. [Erica]: So it as a great jump-start. But I built a team under me. I very quickly realized that I couldn't service the leads that were coming in. And so than I left to go out on my own. I built a team up of people who just honestly want to be fed. I produce the leads. I state myself as the reign maker ruler. I do all the marketing on the back end. My face is on almost everything.  And when we're agent advertising my name is on the door so I have very strict control over quality. I do all the marketing and produce all the materials myself. The leads come in, the get filtered through the agents and than I am to deal with after  in the background if something goes wrong. But that is my role. I see it as feeding the agents and making sure that everybody is happy and productive.  [Chris]: And recently you were telling me I think a couple of months ago that you started doing a lot more travel recently and talking and really try moving into more a leadership role within the industry right? [Erica]: yep. So I have always written. Obviously magazine writing was my background and blogging. And so I have always written articles and so I am speaking locally. But recently in the past 2, 3 years I started taking up national speaking engagements. I spoke at Better Homes and Gardens about 2 years ago at their last region event. And Inman and National…NAR. And so my inner circuit.  [Chris]: I am impressed.  [Christian]: Awkward pause OK. [Chris]: Awkward pause.  [Christian]: OK. [Chris]: There we go. Alright there we go. So…So you…Inman, Better Homes and Gardens, NAR. Now you're on one of the committees with NAR too right? [Erica]: Yep. Next year I am on the research and development committee. This past 2 years I have been on the housing opportunity committee. I have dome some professional development so… [Chris]: That's fantastic. So the reason I am bringing this up is because there has been a lot of talk. And a lot of focus on women leaders within our industry. Because let's face it, Christian, Nate and I are the majority. I am sorry we're the minority in real estate. This industry is almost 60% female and the leadership is skewed the other direction.  So tell us what it is like to be not only a broker owner as a female because that is something we will never know but also to be putting yourself out there in the leadership role as a speaker and travelling across the US to talk about helping other women to step into a leadership role and grow their business also. [Erica]: That is something I have always been passionate about, it is owning my own business. I started my own businesses from scratch. When I was in my early 20s. And it was the magazine business. I was not content about just being the editor or publisher. I wanted to own the magazine. And I did. So I have always been an entrepreneur.  And once I started in real estate I knew very quickly I either wanted an ownership role in my company or I was gonna start my own. So to me it was never a question of why would I try or why would I do it. I question all the time why ever women don't step out into leadership roles. And why they don't start their own brokerages. A lot of women seem to express that they're unhappy where they are. And they search for other brokers. When I was unhappy I just started my own company.  So…But I think it is something that is inside of you. It is innate. And a lot of women I believe are afraid to take the chance. It was a huge risk when I went out on my own and I had a young son and my husband but who totally supports me and everything I do. All my crazy ideas. But you know why don't women say “I want to make a change”? And instead of jumping from broker to broker “I want t start my own company” or “I want to be a manager in the firm”.  But almost all the managers and owners in my area they're all men. So…Local especially when the kids are young and if you have children you can relate. I know you have children and I know Christian and Chris you both have young children. But I didn't have a husband at home taking care of the kids. And he works too so that was challenge and that is probably why I didn't travel and didn't do a lot of speaking. Occasionally I would travel but I didn't do the NAR stuff. I didn't do the contract until the kids were out of the house and it was much easier. Now I just have to worry about the dog. [Christian]: So Erica being the reign maker at your office you mentioned kind of matching leads and giving hose out and kind of working all the back end stuff and being very involved with the transactions. What is your means of acquiring that new business. Do you kind of do the traditional you buy them or are you just a known entity that you actually got a lot of community coming to you? When they have real estate needs? [Erica]: WE do both because while I certainly have enough organic coming into the site…The site is…I don't know 15 years old basically. We get great Google traffic on our own but we also do buy some leads. So specifically we have about 35% of our closing will be repeat referral business. Out at a given point and the remainder are just walk-in office street. We have a very prominent location on a busy highway corner. And we also have a little bit of Zillow paid. Not much. We actually cut that back significantly. But Zillow pushes a lot of Facebook ads. And we get great leads just from Facebook and also some Google paid.  [Chris]: Has there ever been anything that has happened to you that you think would discourage another woman agent from becoming their own business owner or stepping up into a leadership role either on NAR or on a national speaking arrangement? [Erica]: I think there still is a disconnect between strong women and the belief that strong women versus a strong man in negotiating or even running a company, the woman is not necessarily respected as much as the man. I just…I still see that. And I believe that a man who is negotiating a problem on a deal who is a broker and if he is perceived as being strong is not necessarily being perceived as difficult. He is just being a strong businessman and negotiating or advocating for his client.  Whereas women when we step up to the table and argue on behalf of our client or try to push something through that is strong in our belief we're seen in a negative light as opposed to a positive right. And I haven't necessarily seen this happen on a national level. Every meeting and committee that I have been involved with in the state national has been very respectful. But I see it locally. Most of the brokers around me are all men The managers are men and there is definitely still the stigma against the strong women.  [Chris]: In your office what is the breakdown on demographic, men versus women that are working with you? [Erica]: I have one fantastic man [laughter]. [Chris]: One fantastic man so you have 7 agents working for you that are… [Erica]: All women.  [Chris]: All female. So…Christian and I are running our own office. We each have our own company and obviously we do not fully understand the female experience. If we wanted to create an environment that is conductive for females to come in and be successful and grow their business, what should we do as male brokers in an industry that is 60% female? [Erica]: I would say bring them along with you. Bring them up and along. Bring them to meetings. Bring them if you're going to say chambers of commerce function. Or local meetings. Board meetings. Bring them with you and mentor them up. I think women have to be told that it is OK. It is OK to be strong. It is OK to get a babysitter some nights and go out to business functions. You don't have to be home every night with the kids. I… Women feel guilty about this. I know I did. Getting my broker's license I had to have my best friend at the house from 6 to 10 Thursday nights when I took my classes. And I felt terrible that they were in school all day with my friends rather than with me. But…You have to empower them and also listen to them. You should listen to. A lot of women get stepped on their voices get stepped on and they don't necessarily feel like they are heard.  In my office meetings for example the man in my office he's named Will. He is fantastic. He is very open to giving suggestions at our office meetings. His voice is very vocal. And I have watched some of the women step back a little bit when he speaks and I will pull them out of their shell and say “That is a great idea Will. What do you think about it Stephanie?” And pull them up so that they are not shrinking violets in the background. [Chris]: That's a…I think that is fantastic. we'll have to make sure that we are doing things like that because you know right now we…at least my office is predominantly female. So we try and create an environment where no ideas are really shunt. Right we want everybody to feel empowered that when they come into the office their ego is left at the door and everybody is here to either better themselves or better the people around them.  OK If they're not in the office for one of those 2 reasons they're not welcome because every…So we want that environment where people feel “Oh hey you know what everybody's voice is heard and everybody gets the same amount of focus form the office on how they can grow their business.” And I think one of the challenges being a male broker is that we just instinctively we yell at each other. I mean guys, that's what we do. [Erica]: Right. [Chris]: So when we sit in meeting we're gonna yell at each other. Politely but we're gonna basically be vocal. And what I have learnt is that a lot of women let that happen. They kind of step back so I really like that. That's one of the things that I am gonna have to work on. When I am in those meetings recognizing when they are kind of stepping back and binging them forward. That is great. Thank you Erica. [Erica]: What's the body language? And you know when someone has something to say but they're not gonna say it. And I pull them out of it and make them say it because I wanted them to know their voice is important to me.  [Christian]: Yeah I thing that is important as a leader whether male or female. You know people have different personality types and you know kind of as a type females in general tend to be not as aggressive. So…But you know I know that guys are like that too kind of pick them out like “Hey you know I see you haven't said anything during this meeting, what do you think about this” you  know and try to pull them back in. [Chris]: I think that is excellent advice. So take note brokers. Male brokers. This is what you gotta be doing because face it women are on the move and it's…They're the majority we're the minority, I am the user minority because I am not only a man, but I am a millennial. We make up 4% of the industry. So…It's important to pay attention to this stuff. Nate? [Nathan]: So to pick back on that Erica I always like to ask our guests questions that we have on the show. So the first one I would almost think maybe it would be applicable maybe I am wrong, but first question I want to ask you is how is failure and current failure set you up for later success? Question 2 is what are bad recommendations you hear in our profession and then the third one is if you can have a gigantic billboard anywhere with anything on it what would it say? So go [laughter]. [Erica]: OK and the first question is easy. The biggest failure in my entire life was when I had the magazine. I bought the magazine from my prior boss. I got tired of doing all the work. That's what I thought. Doing all the work and not being the boss so I just bought them out. And I blamed the pregnancy on that one.  So I bought it without looking at the numbers without the advice of my attorney, my accountant and my husband. [laughter]. The trifecta and a couple of years later I…the whole industry changed. Destruction came in. The disruptors but we already hear them all the time in our industry. And domino started falling and I was 3 quarters of a million in debt. In this tiny little rural world and I somehow managed to start a second magazine which actually was successful but I learned huge, huge lessons in that first failure, like when you get a pay, pay roll, you don't use a discover card. You know or huge lessons that I never repeated again.  All having to do with my ego and the handling of overhead. Which leads me to number 2. So handling the overhead whether you're the broker or the agent. Everyday my agents come to me I feel with this great news scam. This great new product that somebody wants them to buy it too. “It's only 99 dollars a month. It's only 25 dollars a week. Only…It's only 100 dollars to put a business card up on our program.” You know over and over again. “It's only…It's only”.  And there are people who make lots of money selling products off the backs of agents who should not be spending that money. So, I warned my new agents “Please don't spend any money on any lead generators. I will make your leads for you. Just sit back and work the leads. And do not ever say it's only, because in January when you're adding up your taxes it's gonna be a huge number”. So that to me is one follows the other. Keep your overhead low. [Chris]: Shiny object syndrome.  [Erica]: Yeah the new shiny object thing. [Nathan]: Yeah we have talked about that before but that is a great recommendation. I mean awesome. Awesome recommendation.  [Chris]: “It's only gonna cost me my success”. [laughter] [Erica]: Yeah and than they say “You only need to sell one house”. If you only sell one house you can't pay off the thing. Now I don't want to hear that. [laughter]. And then I guess my billboard would be “Be fearless”. Just that's my motto “Be fearless”. I am… [Chris]: Where would you put it? [Erica]: I would… [Nathan]: I didn't ask where. [Erica]: Yeah he didn't ask where so I don't have to answer that question. [laughter] [Chris]: OK OK ,be fearless. [Nathan]: Yeah I mean literally the question is “If you could have it anywhere with anything on it…” I mean it doesn't matter where it is it's what's on it I guess. Is the message. And be fearless. [Erica]: Yeah. [Chris]: I love that. So Erica we were talking the other day and you were currently working on an article for Inman. About how we focus our business. This kind of piggy bags off of our last episode with Billy a little bit. So what is your philosophy? You are running this business, you've got 8 agents, you are the reign maker. They are killing it. You've got great market share. What is your business philosophy about how you treat your clients and how does that set you apart? [Erica]: I…A lot of brokers say “We're agent centric, we're agent focused, we're all about the agent”. I believe the broker owns the client and I am client focused. It's all about the client. If you serve the client well the agents will be well fed and taken care of and that side of the coin takes care of itself. But it all begins with the broker and the client and so our entire office is very client centric. Even to the fact that if somebody is working with the client they're not handling it well or they are not mixing well with this person, they're getting frustrated. We will just pull them off that one and say “Give it to this person”. And switch them. It's about the client not about you and your commission or the money coming into the office. [Christian]: Preach it sister.  [Erica]: So…Say it again. [Christian]: I said preach it sister. [Nathan]: Preach it is right. I mean if you go by even our last episode part of this. Again it's client. This is like another one of the common themes in our podcast right guys? I mean and lady.  [Chris]: It's tuning in. [Nathan]: Listen listen, this is not rocker science. We are not reinventing the wheel. We are not…We are not coming up with something new. We're actually just going in and doing what we should be doing and taking care of the client. Good Gosh I mean we can't say it enough. But I mean why do we have to keep saying it? [Erica]: Because people are too dump to do it. It's simple.  [Christian]: Right. Well and I think it's because we push it back against the status quo of the industry. The franchises… [Chris]: They're like KPIs KPIs KPIs. [Christian]: All of that stuff is set up to be focused on sales and numbers and money and getting as many agents as possible you know. [Erica]: Yeah. [Chris]: Recruit retain recruit retain. [Christian]: Exactly. So I mean being client focused or caring about people is not…You are going against the flow of how the whole industry works. [Nathan]: Right yeah. You know there are stats and all that good. I had an agents yesterday…sag way real quick. Sorry. They chased bank at their home office. I get invited to their…their first time or their home buyer programs. And it is great being a chased preferred agent but they are having to be another agent there that is new and one of the other agent speaks and said “Hey we haven't lost the house and in our competitive market you probably will.” And she said “Not me” And I was like oh come on just stop. Like here we go with the ego and not making it about the client, you're making it about you. And can we just…More people. I am gonna stop. Just stop making it about you there. [laughter] [Chris]: Yeah it's the ego. [Erica]: And brokers can be afraid to get people out of their office when they don't fit not only the culture but the way the agent should be. I terminated one who was all about her. She rebelled on a client because the client was 10 minutes late on an appointment [laughter]. And the client forwarded me the text message and she said “I don't have time to wait for people at houses”. I was “You need to leave now” [laughter]. [Nathan]: If this was online and like a quote I would be doing that arrow and this…This this right… [Chris]: Yes. [Nathan]: Man that is…Yes. Don't be afraid. [Chris]: One of the…One of the things that I have learned over the last few years in kind of the leadership role of running a company is your culture that you build and that you operate is based off of thousands of tiny interactions. When you have people like that the ego, the meltdown, the trip, like they're just gonna suck and drain all the energy away from the people that are really trying to do good. So I couldn't agree with you more Erica. You just gotta get rid of those people. Unfortunately, I think there is too many brokers that if you got a pulse and a license you're… [Erica]: When you're being judged…When you're in a major franchise and you're being judged by the head count in  your office…I don't judge myself. People ask me...I will go to Inman and the first word out of their mouth is how many agents I have in the office. So I have… [Christian]: It's the metrics of measuring success. [Erica]: Exactly. I am proud of my market share. I am proud of the fact that my agents do a minimum of 24 sites a year. I have 2 that are doing 40 this year and one who is approaching 60. That is a lot of site. [Chris]: That is a lot of site. [Nathan]: That is slaying the dragon. [Chris]: I think that having…A lot of people put pressure on the metrics. “Oh number of agents, volume sold”. But I think the biggest metric is per person productivity. Because I think if those numbers win the per person productivity I think you are destroying Remax who is the…I mean their franchise on average is the highest per person productivity at like 16 sites per agent on average.  They don't even bring in KW because they are the biggest but they don't have the numbers per agent that KW has. That Remax has. And your average real estate agent in the industry is gonna do like what? 3, .4 deals per year? And that's just sites. So 3,4 sites per year I think is the average. And you are destroying that. And that is fantastic and you're doing it with a complete math of 10 people.  [Christian]: Yeah and that's the…That's the business number side of it. Anything else taken into accounts, smaller you know indie brokerages like ours you know can have the luxury of being able to be in charge, in control of developing that culture, how happy are your agents? You know, like on Remax or whatever. You know name any franchise and you know largely they have undefined culture. Like there is no distinguishing factor as to you know….What is like in their office versus anther franchise. Like they're just there to you know have head count. [Chris]: Our office has the best coffee machine. [laughter] Stuff like that. So Erica for any…We've had the theme kind of today of being the woman business owner. For anybody who is thinking about like stepping up like what advice would you give them? [Erica]: I would say that if you're not strong in your leadership skills or don't feel like you're there, that don't know how to be a leader, get a coach, get a mentor. There are at least in my areas there is classes you can take as far as leadership. Or find someone who you admire and ask them to take you under their wing because it really is by osmosis I think in this business and if there is someone in your office who shows promise bring them up with you. I take my agents all the time to chamber of commerce function, to mixers and just have them by my side so they can watch me interacting with other business people an helpfully bring up their confidence level. [Chris]: I love it. That's great. Erica for anybody who wants to get in touch with you and say they've got somebody moving to Pennsylvania or they just want to reach out and pick your brain on some of the things that you have accomplished, what is the best way that they can reach you? [Erica]: They can always call me or email me. My email address is easy, it's my name. ericaramus@gmail.com. And that's –E-R-I-C-A-R-A-M-U-S@gmail. And my phone number is 5704492131. If you google me it's all over. [Chris]: Awesome. Erica thank you so much for taking the time out of your day today to join us here in re:Think Real Estate. For everybody who is listening in please visit us. Go to rtrepodcast.com. Subscribe to the newsletter so every week when we launch a new episode you're gonna get notified. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll see you next week.  [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Download this Episode There are so many different needs that individual real estate agents have for their business. Many agents need detailed support and guidance in building and operating their business. Others need a framework that they can operate their business within that will lead to greater predictability in their income. Each agent is different within the real estate space and Brokers should understand how they can tailor their model to match different needs of agents. What do agents want from their broker? The re:Think Real Estate Podcast focuses on different aspects of the real estate industry. We share stories of amazing agents that defied the odds to create a name for themselves in the industry. We also share best practices for what works for us in our daily lives. Tune in every week to hear a new episode. Oh, and while you're at it please leave us 5 STAR review on iTunes! Real Estate Podcast Transcription Audio length 29:39 RTRE 51 – What Do Real Estate Agents Want? [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. I am Chris Lazarus here with Christian Harris and Nathan White and we're so glad to have you along for the next 30 minutes. Guys what is going on? [Christian]: Just trying to stay warm. It's snowing again in 2019 in Seattle. It's actually pretty bad so it's like adages of snow and lots of hill lots of nice… [Nathan]: Yeah I guess…It's tougher for you guys in Seattle with your skinny jeans that come up past your ankles and getting wet and you not knowing what to do. [Chris]: It was hard tracking to the local coffee shop this morning right? [Christian]: Yeah. I am a steady guy in the eye. [laughter]. [Nathan]: My Fedora blue is off in the heavy snow and I didn't know what to do. [Christian]: I got my flannel and my…down. [Chris]: I don't know if I can make it to the grocery store for more almond milk.  [Christian]: You can come here and try to drive down in the 18% grade in the ice and see how you do. [Nathan]: When I went to pick a granola for the day care it was really challenging. [crossover talking] [Christian]: It must have been really nice living in the woods and having… [Nathan]: It was a great episode. Guys I gotta go [laughter].  [Christian]: That's a little [inaudible] I get it. [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in to re:Think Real Estate. We'll catch you…No I am just kidding. So no what are we talking about this week Christian? [Christian]: Let's talk about what agents want or what we think agents want. Or what agents think they want but then they find out they don't really want that. [Nathan]: This is great since I am an agent and I can't wait to think what 2 brokers think we want or at leats…[laughter]. [Christian]: Well we're also agents. I mean technically we're brokers in Washington but…you know I know there's things that I want which is why I set up my brokerage the way I did. But then you also have the… In my experience you kind of have like what agents say they want, what they think they want and then you actually find out what they want. Because you provide them all the things they say they want and they don't use them. Or they still go somewhere else because they're lured by something else sexy and shiny. And then realize the grass isn't actually greener. So I think it's actually interesting conversation to have. What do you guys think? [Chris]: Well I think that you know…for that is gonna depend on where the agent is in their career.  [Christian]: Correct and what they want. [Chris]: You're got all new agents. You've got all different types of brokerages. You know your new agent is gonna need a lot more than your experienced agent so where do you want to start first? [Christian]: Yeah I mean yeah I would say there is probably you know on the spectrum 3 major groups of agents I would say. There's the agent who doesn't need the help, doesn't want the help, just wants a low fee, low cost structure to do their own thing.  [Chris]: OK. [Christian]: That's fine that's gonna be like Nathan, you know, what you're doing. You know you started at KW you got your feet under you and kind of went out to do your own thing. You know, after you figured it out.  And I think there is the bulk of agents which is kind of in the middle of. They want some support of some sort whether that's access to the broker for questions or marketing or CRM or systems or something. They're gonna want some sort of support and they're willing to pay up a higher split for that.  And I guess you could say maybe like Redfin or something is kind of the other, I don't know if I would say other end of the extreme, where it's employee based. It's not independent contractor based you know. So you're got no anonymity because you're not an independent contractor. You're playing your part in the cog as a cog and a corporation. [Chris]: I think…I think those are on the grand scheme of things. Because most offices don't operate on employee bases. I think we can probably categories those like team members. Those that don't want to build their own business, just want leads provided to them, go out close to sale, be a sales agent.  [Christian]: there you go so their value that they're looking for is being part of a team.  [Chris]: OK. [Christian]: Yep. [Chris]: Well let's start with the…with the bulk of the agent. What do you think most agents want in a brokerage Christian? I am putting you in the hot seat first. [Christian]: Yeah that…It's…As I figured out or trying to figure out this independent brokerage thing you know and discovered things as you know agents have come and gone…I think what they want or what they realize that they want or need…I don't know. You cut that out [laughter].  I think what agents come to value is some sort of system in the organization because they realize very quickly that most of them are not organized. And so they're gonna have that provided to them without them having to figure out technology and CRM and that kind of stuff. But I think it's something that a lot of agents have to discover. It's probably not something that they value up front.  You know they have to discover “OK I am getting business and I am bringing it with my head cut off you know and I cannot really handle so much because I am scattered, you know.” I mean that's…That was kind of my idea. I mean that's what I saw was agents want to be in front of people. There's not necessarily systems, processes organized. You know, that kind of stuff. So the whole idea is you come here, we provide that so you can go out and be in front of people and not have to worry about thinking you know the back end stuff. [Chris]: So basically all the behind the scenes taken care of so they can focus on selling. [Christian]: Yes and no. Actually I think it's not initially valued until they realize that they're not good at it. And they need it. So…It's not sexy so…but I think some things are sexy, they're a little more obvious. Would be like marketing. Like you know are there options for me to have a listing that I don't have to create from scratch. You know.  Whether that's internal marketing team or some sort of template platform. You know that they provide it for you. Or social media post of something. Something that makes it easy to get in front of potential clients or you know marketing stuff for your…for your buyers, for your sellers. That sort of thing.  I think a big one which is…seems pretty universal is access to the broker when they have questions. You know so…because I have had people come here say “I can't…it takes 3 days for my broker to get back to me”. You know and I am like “That's kind of ridiculous you know, you have one job as a broker. You know”. Technically I mean that's kind of the big thing it's like supporting the agents when they have legal questions. Contract questions [laughter]. You know if you're not doing that what the hell are you doing? You know.  [Chris]: Nate what do you think? [Nathan]: There's is many things here. Like you know me. I am the bear bonds. I don't moat, I don't need all the fluff. You know… [Christian]: Oh fluff huh? [Nathan]: You know what I mean with it [laughter]. [Christian]: I know what you're saying. [Nathan]: But you talk about like we go back to this you know agents being so busy, right. So you know an agent says “Well I need all this, right…Or…”. But than they don't actually use it. And so I…I…like I was in that box. Like I had all the stuff but I didn't use it. So why am I paying for it. So… [Christian]: Sure. [Nathan]: There are so many different directions you can go. You're right on the types of people I think that the sharks like myself that you know or hunter killers, whatever you wanna call us that you know we're happy going out and hunting and eating what we kill and that's…We really enjoy that.  And then there's that middle of the pack you know I call it your dad bought group, right. You know they're just happy standing in lane [laughter] and not doing anything. And that belly is gonna appear and they're not gonna be much about it. They're comfortable. That's what we are as a society. Were a [censored] comfortable. So they're not gonna challenge anything at all right. They're just gonna say “Yeah I don't mind giving out 60-40 split. I am good I am getting my CRM that I am not using.” All this [censored] that they're not really using but they're telling themselves they're happy. What they are they're just comfortable and they're not truly uncomfortable and I think to be a hunter killer or shark you've gotta be comfortable being uncomfortable.  And then you've got that far end of the spectrum of that person who's got really no ambition to me or they just…they don't know what the [censored] they're doing and they're on that employee you know plan. So go for it. You know that's happy. And that's fine. I…I love the middle of the road pack. There's you know they're great and they do a great job and people have different circumstances right. And I don't want to feel like I am bashing that middle of the road pack. Why? If you're a mum or a father, a single parent whatever it may be, you may need all those things to support you. Maybe you can't get out and you know be the hunter killer that you really want to be. Which I would challenge and say you could. But maybe that is just what works for you at this given time.  So you know I could…Again I could talk about a lot of different things. When I started I wanted leads. I wanted leads and I wanted to know how to talk to them. Converse to them. And become more educated and knowledgeable. That's what I wanted. So than once you get past that phase I think than there's the evolution. You kind of have that fork on the road to go down this path and you stay there.  And then you're just happy in your zone and you go “Well I wanna go this way”. And you go the opposite direction. So I think it depends on the type of individual or personality you are and I think it depends on where you are in your career. I mean hack, I might get to the later stages of this and go “Man I am good you know what”. And join a team and get comfortable and take a 60-40 split and be happy, right. I don't know.  [Christian]: Yeah I mean I'll push back a little bit on the characterization of the middle. Because to me it's such a broad…I think most agents would wall into that as far as agents are gonna line in franchise or whatever.  There is a good size group of them that are comfortable that aren't doing anything, that don't have a sense of urgency. You know I would say that's probably the same group that you know brings industry down as far as you know ill trained, ill experienced. Those are always gonna be there you know until we radically change, you know, where the bar is in the industry. Training or something. You know.  But I would say that I think there is a mischaracterization just because you're kind of in that middle, that you're not hungry. It doesn't mean it. Yeah I know plenty of agents who are killing it because they're hungry and because they're using…Because they're organized or you know have a team or whatever you know. I think you can be successful kind of doing that alone like you know not having a CRM or being an organized or refusing… [Nathan]: I am organized. [laughter] [Christian]: Not having a CRM and that sort of thing. But…Because I think if you're driven you're gonna be successful. Just a matter of you know kind of that quality of life or that you know…running with your head cut off. How much business can you handle. How much do you want to handle versus kind of having it…it systematized whatever so.  I think you can do it like you're doing it or be in the middle so to speak. And have that stuff provided to you. But I think you also hit an interesting point about leads. You know a lot of agents are willing to give up you know, splits because they want leads handed to them. And I am kind of divided on that because I mean in general my thinking is “Well if you as an agent can't figure out how to get your own business, what good are you? Like that's your job, is to figure out the business. What the broker is handing to you, the leads, the business, what do you need agents for? Like they did the hard work for you, you know.” The contract once you've been through the process is easy.  So I mean that's just kind of me. So that's not something we do and theoretically it's something that maybe we'll try to figure out or whatever but it's kind of ideologically speaking you know I don't want lazy agents that just want the business handed to them. You know I want sharks like yourself [laughter]. I want people that are motivated that are gonna go figure it out you know. [Nathan]: So than what would you provide to me as a shark? Like you know I do good business. So you're here in the Ohio market. You want me. You're like “Man I need Nathan on my team”. Or “How do I make this happen?” What are you gonna give me or what are you gonna provide me that's gonna change… [Christian]: I don't think that you would find value in the things that we provide so I don't know if that would be a good fit. Because for us is you know you come here, we give you your email, your CRM training. Back office stuff. If you're like “I don't need that I have my own thing.” well you're probably not gonna see the value in this let's give the culture we provide. You just want to go your own thing.  And I have had agents that said “Hey I don't think you're a good fit because all you want to do is do your own thing and you don't want any part in like the Sea-Town culture or what we give you. You don't find value in that so you want to negotiate a different split. Like it's not how we do it. You know it's not what we're looking for”. So it comes down to you know, what the agent values and what the brokerage's strength is.  [Nathan]: But you didn't pitch. You didn't pitch me. You didn't say… [Christian]: No I am not pitching you. I want agents that see the value that we bring. I am not gonna settle to an agent. I don't. I don't…I don't settle. I don't do pitches. I mean like this is what we do. This is what we're about. If you want to be part of it great. If you don't you know there's just no brokerage down there that won't give you anything. Wont charge anything either. [Chris]: So I think you both hit on some good points. But what are the key things that for…I think you both missed is humans are…We have a pack mentality. We want to belong to something that is bigger than ourselves. It helps with motivation. It gives us a sense of purpose in our lives. And I think the majority of agents choose their brokerage based off of how they…how it aligns with who they are personally. Yeah you have people that go out and do their own thing. But even the people that are…are attending you know their meetings in a video game are still a part of something that they feel aligns with their core values.  Another thing that I think is extremely valuable in the brokerage stand point is that a lot of agents don't know what they don't know. Their…their job is to make a living. Their job is to serve their clients and to go out and to make sure that the client is getting the best experience, that they are generating a referral and repeat business, that they're able to be the shark and to go out and get new business. Their job is not to follow industry trends. It's hard to do that stuff when you're doing a full time sales job. To be able to see what's on the horizon and look at the industry from you know, 30 thousand feet or 100 thousand feet versus being on the ground in the business are 2 completely different skill sets. And you know there are agents that don't see value in that. There are a lot of agents that they don't care one way or another because they just want some leads and they want to go out and sell. But then I think a vast majority of the agents really want to know what's going on and to have all the data that is collected really put into a form that is presentable and easily understood so that they can relate that to their clients and reinforce that they are a true expert.  I think that there is a lot of value that can be brought by the brokerage on this level and I think that a lot of agents when they realize that that is one of the core focuses of an office can really determine whether or not that is something that fits in line with what they want.  Now you guys both talked on leads and leads are a funny thing because leads can make a good agent great. Leads can help a new agent increase the size of a database very quickly. And if when they're done right form a brokerage stand point leads are not about giving handouts because for example our lead team has extremely strict requirements on their metrics and if their metrics aren't met their leads will be paused until they're able to complete the metrics that are required. At that time they will be reinstituted. And if they continue not living up to that message I've got a waiting list of people that want to be on that team.  And it's not to say that everything is done at a higher split. The leads are because we have a cost associated with that. But mostly the agents that are doing the leads they're only paying a higher split on the leads that we generate. Everything else is on their normal split for performance. So it just gives them an incentive to…if as a broker I can give some of my agents an extra 10 or 15 thousand dollars a year in their pocket that's business that they otherwise would not have had, and increase their database for future business down the road than I am doing my job well.  And if I can do that without you know hindering their ability to grow their business and be successful I am doing my job well. And when we're doing that along with building a culture and giving people that cause that they can believe in and that mentality of belonging than I am doing my job well. Now those are the things that I think a broker needs to do.  [Christian]: Yeah. I think you're exactly right. That kind of that culture I mean what we usually lead with as a brokerage is the culture and the experience. You know. And the experience is through technology blah blah blah, and things that we provide but the culture you know is not something that is replicatable.  [Chris]: No, culture takes years to develop. [Christian]: Yeah it's good. [Chris]: And it can be killed with one bad action. [Christian]: Right. And it's something that you know I see you know anecdotally I have seen here as far as…you know I can't speak about culture per se but definitely that hurt mentality you know I have seen you know form a distance like the brokerage I started off with like it started off…Because they're some big franchises you know within 2 miles of my office here. And you know I have seen you know the manager team left you know that brokerage, that franchise and went to another franchise and than you started seeing just and exodus of agents from that brokerage to the other brokerage just I mean just huge turn over in agents that had been with this brokerage for you know 10 years, 15 years.  And it wasn't because this other brokerage provides something better. It was because they like the people. Everyone is going there. That's the place to be. You know like it wasn't a tangible thing it was a more local grasp grip culture and the people you know. And you know and somebody I am trying to hack this. I am like how you know the people we're been bringing on they come to me already sold. They're like “We love what you're doing, the philanthropy, the culture. Innovation. We wouldn't be part of this.” But they're new agents and I am fond of that but that takes a lot of work up front to train and mentor and stuff.  What I am trying to hack you know is like how do I increase my ratio of experienced agents to brand new green agents? If you figure it out let me know [laughter]. Because it comes down to what the Sea-Town have that X, Y franchise doesn't have or can't provide. You know why would they leave some place they're comfortable and then no people as established brand or name whatever to this unknown scrappy indie brokerage?  [Chris]: Yeah so our focus is primarily on new agents. We...We put a ton of effort and time into training. So we have a lot of experienced agents that came to us back in the day when we were…just starting out. And our costs were so low that people came over. You know I bet back in the day Nate you would have been paying less with us at Sellect than whatever you're paying now. And we had to go away from that.  But interestingly as we got away from that we moved towards splits that were more in line with the services that were offering performance increased. Agents were making more now paying us a little bit more than the ever did. When they were paying us hardly little…hardly anything. And you know 100% of nothing is still nothing. And when we focused on production and training and we increased the splits people see a lot more value in what we do and our per person productivity has gone up since 2015. It was around 300.000 per person. Now it's a little over…Just under 1.1 million per person. So performance is tied to it. Yeah. [Christian]: Yeah I mean that's an interesting point because that is something that we're starting to try to do. Because before it was just kind of me doing 1 on 1. And I am a big believer in training support you know because my experience was you go to a brokerage, the brokerage is like “Welcome aboard. You know you have a heartbeat, good luck. Let us know if you need anything”.  And maybe would provide some training here and there but nothing systematized. Nothing is priorities. You know there's no organization to any of it. And as a new agent you don't know what you're supposed to ask. I mean like “OK I have a contract question.” “Do you have a specific question to ask me?”. You know that's not…”Teach me how to…how to business plan and how am I gonna generate you know, build my business”.  So we're starting to do more on that. I am very involved in that and since we're coming again to your point Nathan like agents you know, may say they want one thing but than their action maybe betray that they don't really value that. So we've had you know some agents sign up for you know our new training and stuff but you know there has been push back of “Oh it costs money?” And “Oh I don't have the time”.  And I am like “Hey listen like you put…you get out of it what you put into it and if you don't want to put money into it, you don't want to put time into it you're obviously not serious you know.” I am willing to work around scheduling stuff but I am not gonna pay for you. Like you know. So that kind of stuff can be difficult. Kind of trying to figure out who is a good fit and who is worth investing in versus they did. You know. [Chris]: So I've got a question for you Nate. So being in the style of brokerage where you're the hunter killer, you're the shark. You're going out and doing everything for your business, where are you getting the insight, the direction? Where do you find time to find that on your own without you know hindering your sales business? [Nathan]: Insight direction into what? [Chris]: Future of the industry. Strategy where you need to position yourself in the next few years?  [Nathan]: Well… [Christian]: The pivoting. [Chris]: We did an episode on pivoting. [Nathan]: I mean there is more than 1 real estate podcast in the world [laughter]. [Chris]: No no. [Nathan]: I am just kidding. [Chris]: I mean why would you say something like that? [Nathan]: It's amazing what is free out there right? You know again through reading alone and listening to other podcasts or you know you can gain a path of knowledge. The other side is to talk to other agents. You know there's…I have a few colleagues here you know I am very close with. And they're not at our brokerage at all but you know if I got an issue, a question “What would you do? What do you think?”. You know I call them.  You know you play in a playground and, you know, of like people and I think it helps grow. You know, its…You know secret agents don't make money. Well secret agents aren't gonna learn. If you don't go and mix and mingle and network with people that are like you. And it doesn't have to be a ton but you're not gonna learn anything right. You have to go to a place that does have a culture of sharing ideas and not the “It's all out for me”.  You know I applaud KKW when I was there. I had that culture you know with the people that I at least worked alongside. So I think that's important. You know there's plenty of ways. Again I think it's agents. Sometimes we love to act like we're so busy but we're not. I think it's about prioritizing your day and having a daily work flow and this is a job.  So many people sometimes you know, how do you do again this is a job but it's one I love, it's one I am passionate about. If you're passionate about something you're gonna learn more about it. You guys all know I love to run. Right. I know a [censored] lot about running. [laughter] I am not good at it. I am not good at it but I know a lot about it right. So…You've loved… [Chris]: Wait what are you talking about you're not good at it? [Nathan]: I don't know well that's the good thing about running. You…To be good all you have to do is be able to run right?  [Chris]: Yeah. You start moving you don't stop. [Nathan]: Right exactly. But something you're passionate about you're gonna be inclined to learn more about it. So if you're an agent listening to this and you're not truly passionate about what you do, if you don't truly care maybe you need a different occupation. [Chris]: Or you need to talk to somebody who is passionate about what they're doing and you see if some of that can rub off on you. [Nathan]: Yeah that's a whole episode of “Your why”.  [Chris]: Yeah you gotta find your why. [Nathan]: Yeah. [Chris]: Well I want to give kudos to you because most agents, and I think you're kind of the out wire there as Christian said earlier. Most agents don't have the time or the desire or just the energy to go out and do those things, mix and mingle and have discussions with people in the industry. And for those people that's where a solid broker comes in.  For the handful that can do it on their own we're got plenty of brokers that have a solo shop and they're producing. They own a firm. They do great work, they do great jobs. So it doesn't always take a brokerage. But they're…You've gotta have some sort of community or pack mentality. You've gotta have something you believe in, something you can grow with. And something that you can aim for.  Alright everybody than you so much for tuning in to this episode of re:Think Real Estate. I think it was a great talk. If you haven't already, please go to rtrepodcast.com that's for re:Think Real Estate. So rtrepodcast.com. Sign up for our newsletter. You will be notified every time a new episode drops. Also please, please, please go to iTunes, Google Play and leave us a 5-star review in Spotify or wherever you want to find us so that people know that we're good. I don't know. Thanks for tuning everybody. Have a great week.  [music] [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Keeping a positive outlook while building a business is not always the easiest. Today we talk about the tips and tricks we use to keep our minds focused and free from distraction and negative thoughts. Mindset matters. Real Estate Podcast Transcript Audio length 28:12 RTRE 52 – Keeping a Successful Mindset in Real Estate [music] [Chris] Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate.  I am Chris Lazarus here with Christian Harris and Nathan White. What is up guys? [Nathan]: [crosstalk] [Christian]: I am possibly feeling good. Kind of good mental outlook. [Chris]: You got a good mental outlook?  [Christian]: I am happy. [Chris]: What about you Nate? How is your mental outlook going today? [Nathan]: As strong as usual.  [Chris]: Fantastic. [Christian]: All the exercise. All this endorphin is gone. [Nathan]: It's also about not letting the…not letting that other devil on the shoulder creep in. [Chris]: Oh yeah definitely. It's always there. Today everybody we are talking about the mental state. The attitude to be peak performance, businessman, person. Whatever you wanna call it. But we're gonna talk about how your attitude and your metal state can impact not only your business but our personal life. Your family.  Everything that you do is impacted by your mental state. So guys who wants to take it off with the first point on this? Nate you're doing a lot with…with running and just being all around crazy person. So why don't we start with you? [Nathan]: Yeah I mean I guess you can. Sure. Whatever. Huh. [laughter] The…you know we talk about mental state right. I guess that's a question I get asked a lot. You know they say “How do you run so far? How do you do what you do?”.  And you know I tell people it's really it's not the physical. It's a couple of things. One is the mind. It is…it is having the mental fortitude to as we…as I said when we were getting into the show, talking that other guy off your shoulder who is telling you the whole time “You know you can quit”.  The other side of the mental state if you would is commitment. You know I probably said it before in our podcast. I talk about Ritual says it but you know he says it the moment of commitment the universe will conspire to assist you. There's Casey Neistat who is a filmmaker. He has a plan or a recipe if you would for success. That he guarantees to work. And I think it is all within this category.  What Casey says is “All you have to do is commit your entire life to something which will result in either 1 of 2 outcomes. Either you will succeed or you will die trying which is in itself its own form of success, right?”.  You know we're always…we're always looking for the easy way to do things either be in life, or even as a realtor. Realtors I think we're the best example of like “Oh wait sweet, that's gonna make me a million dollars. Oh wait look over here that's gonna make me this”. We're looking for the easiest way instead of committing to something and having the right mindset.  I will use us as an example right. We could have been traditional realtors when we said we were gonna set out to do the podcast. And I think you know not knocking on everybody on industry but you know a lot of people would have said “Alright fine after 10 episode…” they call, they call it quits.  [Chris]: They have. [Nathan]: Because the mindset was wrong going into it. When we started this we said before even recording an episode “We're committed to 100 episodes win, lose or draw”. Right. Because we have, we have no way to measure anything by doing it 3 or 4 times. And maybe even 100 is still not where we wanted to be but we stuck with the commitment to do it. Is it a [censored] and a pain the [censored] and do we have to coordinate all these other things that we have to deal with? Yes. [Chris]: At times. [Nathan]: But we are committed. And that takes mindset. Just stay committed to it. Right. I think any of us at any given point could have said “God is this…” You know we probably all said “Is this worth it?”. We have had those moments but you have to fight through the moment of doubt to move past it which generally is very fleeting. And it's quick and then we progress. Right.  So…you know mindsets it's everything we do. It's not just real estate. It's in your personal life and your daily life and your rituals. I mean I could preach about it all day I guess. You know a lot of what I have accomplished I consider myself an average Joe but I think what sets me apart is I have a different mindset.  [Christian]: Yeah I will add to that if I could. [Nathan]: No. [Christian]: I think… [Chris]: No you can't. Nate is gonna talk for this episode. [Nathan]: We don't need your opinion. We're just gonna stop there and work it out. [Christian]: Episode over. I think you're right. I think you know not giving up and being consistent is a big part of it. But I think the mindset as you're going through it and how you respond to you know using the example of the podcast. It takes up time and planning you know. We're blocked out 2 or 3 hours you know every week. Every couple of weeks to knock these out. And you know I could be thinking myself “Oh man this is a pain in the [censored]. I don't have time for this. I don't really like Nate but you know whatever. [laughter]” Whatever are my excuses. [Nathan]: Not liking me is a good one. [Christian]: But…But instead you know I choose to try and focus on “Well this is beneficial. Hopefully we will provide some value to other agents and this thing is gonna start you know being a momentum”. You know it's kind of what do you focus on? Do you wallow in the negatives or do you look towards you know, the positives?  And that's one thing that I think really, really can keep things going. Keep your energy up and just in life will keep you going. Because you could just wide knowingly and try and not give up. But just hate your life and be miserable and you know be an energy suck to everyone around you. Or if your attitude is you know right it will be the other. It will be again life empowering and energy. Giving and inspiring instead of what most people don't like being around. You know.  [Chris]: I think that you know when it comes to the thoughts that people have I think the difference between somebody who is successful and somebody who is not is their ability to control where their focus is going. And I think there is a common misperception by those who are unable to keep a positive attitude about how that happens.  And one of the…I wanna say it was in the Success Principles by Jack Canfield. But one of the best things that I have read is that everybody gets the train of thought. Everybody gets doubt and everybody gets the feeling of optimism at times and everybody struggles with “Is this for me or am I doing the right thing? Am I wasting my time? This is such a pain in the [censored]. I am not seeing the results”.  But the difference between people who are successful and the people who are not is the people who are successful have those thoughts and then they just watch those thoughts you know fly by. Right. Everybody…the train is gonna come and go. You can choose whether to ride it or not. And that's one thing that I have tried to do is that when those come up pay attention to it for a few minutes than get back to work. And you know I don't have time to wallow or think about whether this is gonna work or not. Just get on to the next project. [Christian]: Yeah I think you kind of remind me when you're talking about kind of the thoughts we have. You know because you can just be kind of the positive energy you know feng shui “I am just one with the universe, it's all about the feelings” right. [laughter] How do you get there? You can't just force feelings. [Chris]: No. Yeah. [Christian]: And I think a big part of that is…You know we're talking about intentionality there but I think there is intentionality in your thoughts. You know because like… [Chris]: Definitely. [Christian]: Because we're all…we all have internal voice. Internal dialogue right. We're always telling ourselves there is always a story that we're telling ourselves. Now that story could be full of lies or it could be full of truths. It could be life empowering or life sucking. And so if we're not conscious of… [Chris]: That's good. [Christian]: If we're not conscious of what we're telling ourselves…you know like something bad happens I tell myself and I am subconsciously telling myself “Man there he goes again. I am a total idiot. I am a marron. I can't do anything right. Nothing is gonna work”. Like you're gonna spiral downwards.  But if you're like “OK it's a little setback. I am gonna keep going forward. I am gonna make a suggestion.” You know like that's going to keep you going forward. And if you're not conscious of what we're telling ourselves or what story we're living our lives out of than you know our emotions are gonna be all over the place and we're not gonna know why. Because our thoughts largely will dictate “OK do I respond well to this? My emotions are going to you know get better or am I gonna spiral into the self-sabotaging depression”. Those thoughts that we have and what we're telling ourselves largely will dictate that. [Nathan]: But what did Henry Ford say? He has one of the greatest lines of all time.  [Chris]: Whether you think you can or you can't you're right. [Nathan]: Either way your right. [Christian]: That's right. Exactly. [Nathan]: Believe that like any of the journeys that I have bene on in my life and hell I have been on some. You know they were…they were hard. They were painful. They weren't…they weren't colossi. The reward though was the journey in itself. The not quitting. The really finishing the task, right.  And I think anybody that has been through whatever life experience it may be they are…they already know this. They know what's true. Right? You know I mean so…but it's…it is you know the mind itself it can be your best friend or your worst enemy, right? I mean you know I think and I was doing my 24 hour run and it's 3 a.m. in the morning. You know I've got that guy on my shoulder and that part of my mind going “Why the [censored] are you out here for? What are you doing?” Right.  And at any moment I could have just quit. I could have said “This is enough.” But what I had to realize is that moment of doubt, the moment of fear generally they're very short. They don't last as long as I think one likes to think. If you can get past it than it's OK but you kind of have to…you know you have to commit the daily pressure and what, you know, compels to just progress sometimes. You gotta give yourself you know over and over and over you know…I am good at what I do because I failed a lot. And I think a lot of people when they have failures they…they just quit. [Christian]: Right. But you took those failures and you said “What can I learn and how can I grow?” and not try to give up and not try it ever again because it's risky and painful. Super painful.  [Chris]: And that's the key. Like you learn from the mistakes. You know one of the things that I have seen in being the difference between especially new agents coming into real estate. Those being successful or those that are very fleeting in the industry is how long their outlook is. Because if people are focused on short term , right. If you're focused on “Oh I've gotta get 3 byers in 3 weeks” and that doesn't happen than you get discouraged. OK “Well I've gotta get 3 buyer sin 3 months now, that's a little bit more reasonable”.  But when people start doing things like prospecting and mailing campaigns and maybe they subscribe to do a lead platform like Zillow or Sync or Boom Town or whatever it is, people always expect immediate results and they don't have a long forecast because things don't happen overnight. And if somebody goes into something with a plan of you know “I am gonna try this for 3 months and see if it works” and then 3 months in they haven't…they barely got the system set up and they don't know how to work it yet and they're not getting the results and they throw the hands up and they say “I have been paying for this for 3 months and it's not working”.  People who go in with that kind of mindset have such a completely different and less successful experience than somebody who is like “You know what I am gonna go into it, I am gonna give it 3 months to learn it, 6 months to execute and then I am gonna evaluate in the last 3 months and I am gonna commit a year to this and see if this is a system that I want to continue with”.  And people who go in and they study it and work at it diligently…It's like a CRM right? What's the best CRM? The one you use. Doesn't matter the software. Not to be a jab Nate. [Nathan]: No it's OK. [Chris]: [laughter] But you know when it comes to the fortitude of how well somebody is gonna be…How likely their success is. If they have a long outlook right, if they have a 2 year business plan and something happens to them at months 3 but they know that they're in it for 2 years they're a lot less likely to be negatively impacted by whatever that event is at month 3. They're like “I got a long way to go”. And then they just get back on the saddle. Versus who is like “OK I am gonna give it 6 months”. And than they come in and they barely have enough time to set up their email account. It's gonna be a different story. [Christian]: Yeah I think…I think realistic expectations are important. You know I would say if you want to be successful and you know specifically in real estate or just business in general, don't be a…don't be afraid to take risks. Because if you're afraid of failure like you're never gonna take a big enough risk to really make a difference in your life. [Chris]: Couldn't agree more. [Christian]: Like Nate saying you know…you know like the more you fail hopefully you learn from that and that is what leads to success, not playing it safe and never trying. I know for me I learned this pretty early on form my military career you know because I joined…I joined the army at 25. And my whole goal was special forces.  You know I am like “If I am gonna serve than I am gonna serve the best”. And the elite and whatever. So I knew going into it that it was gonna be a tough road. And I guess it was physically demanding, hardest thing I have ever done but as a mental part that really kills people. There is you know total studs out there that you know as soon as it starts getting tough or inconvenient they are like “I am done I am out”.  You know but one of the things I have learned going through special forces assessment that the qualification course is you know instead of kind of doing the…what we do with the procrastination, instead of saying “I'll start exercising tomorrow, I'll start doing this tomorrow”. You kind of reverse it and say “I will quit tomorrow”. But you know “This road march sucks. Plenty of miles wearing 60 plus pounds. I will quit tomorrow. I will quit in a kilometer. I will quit when I get over that hill. OK there's just one more hill and I will quit than”. And before you know you've finished. Before you know you've succeeded. [Chris]: I like that. That's awesome. [Christian]: It is just these mental games you kind of learn to like keep yourself you know acknowledge the reality that “Yeah it sucks but I am gonna keep going. I am gonna do my best”. You know and that's all you can do. You do your best and before you know it you realize you can actually withstand mental and physically a lot more than you think you can. [Nathan]: I'll…I can talk about this all day but I will leave it with this. I admire a true…I carry him around in my hand all day long because I you know we have talked about my headset and I have to have my little tricks. But Ritual says “Practice your craft. Whatever shape or form that may be late into the evening with relentless giber. Embrace the fear, let go off perfection. Allow yourself to fail. Welcome the obstacles. Forget the results. Give yourself over to the passion with every fiber of your art and live out the rest of your days trying to do better. I can't promise you'll succeed in the way our culture inappropriately defines the term but I can absolutely guarantee you that you will deeply become acquainted with who you truly are. You'll touch and exude passion and discover what it means to truly be alive”.  [Christian]: That's enough said. [Nathan]: Yeah love that man [laughter]. [Chris]: That's good stuff. So for real estate agents we ride an emotional roller coaster. We have periods where we're like “Oh great this is awesome. Get a client, somebody who actually wants to work with us”. And then “Oh man that client they already signed a brokerage agreement with somebody else”. Or “They went out and they bought a home that was a Feesbo and they're now not gonna give me a commission”. Or “They went and bought a new construction and they put me down as the agent”.  Than we've got all sorts of ups and downs. You know. “Got the first contract”. And then the financing falls through right before closing. And I mean it just happens over and over and over in our industry. So guys how do you take a beating and get back up the next day? [Christian]: Yeah it's a good question. I mean it's how the mentality and how what we were talking about applies to real estate specifically is…I don't know I mean Nate just made it kind of simple or whatever but just do your best. Don't worry about what everyone else around you is doing. You know because there is so much especially culturally with kind of the politics and kind of the…what's the word I am looking for, not segregation but you know, the extremes. You know people are very polarized. [Chris]: Oh yeah. [Christian]: Very polarized. So you know it could be very easy to…I don't know what point I am trying to make here. You can cut this out [laughter]. So I guess how it applies to real estate. [Chris]: Yeah how do real estate agents keep taking a beating? How do they get up every morning, get punched in the throat and then go to bed and wake up the nest day with a smile in the face to get punched in the throat again. [Christian]: Yeah I would say just keep…you know trying your best. Do your best. Don't worry about what everyone around you is doing. You know because I mean it's very easy to get cynical and complain in this industry and you know I am a big believer that complaining and negativity is a cancer. You know it spreads like it infects you know culture infects an office, affects those around you. Not in a good way you know.  So I try to tell myself “OK when I find myself complaining or thinking to myself hey this other agent is a complete marron like I go out of my way to like OK maybe they're just new, maybe they're having an off day or maybe they are a marron”. But it doesn't really do any good to like spread that around my office [laughter]. You know. You know so I am just like “OK note to self don't do that. Learn from this”. You know learn from other people's either just traditional things that I don't like or the things I think are wrong. Instead of just complaining about it you know do something about it and you know maybe they need help you know. Maybe they didn't get good mentoring or their brokerage sucks or something. You know just do what you can to help yourself help those that you know ultimately effect and do thing that you can have a change on, have an effect on. You know things that you can't change just write it off your back, let it go. Just take care of yourself. [Nathan]: Let's just go back. How…what's the answer to the question? I don't have one. That is it. I honestly I don't…I don't have one. I think you have to lose a lot. I think you have to fail a lot to appreciate what you have. Because I think it's hard for a lot of people to appreciate what they truly have because they never went without.  I see it a lot. You know it's always the wanting of more, more, more. I can tell you form experience of having nothing. Literally having nothing. I am thankful for what I got every day. So…You know you want to really find out go and test yourself. Go sleep outside for 2 nights with a blanket and nothing else but a cardboard and find your food. And literally do something like that. Do something extreme. Really crazy like that sounds crazy. But go do it.  Just experience for 2 days what it is like to be homeless or something. You know I could think of crazier things but that's just a good one. And then maybe you will take a step back and appreciate what you do have. Again being grateful is I don't know for some people it is a hard [censored] thing. And we should be more of it. So mindset. You are who you are. You control you know what you can control and I can't control you or anybody else. But you can as an individual. So make that choice everyday and have a great day. I would start there. [Christian]: Yeah that's an interesting point because you have been thinking about this a lot because I have an 8 year old kid who you know has a pretty…pretty damn good life [laughter] and doesn't know it you know. And so thinking about like you can try to teach gratitude which is obviously what we're doing you know as parents. But you know the reality is like without the perspective of like never having known what is like to be really hungry or cold or you know lonely without friends or whatever like it's really hard to teach them so we're trying to teach them “OK responding well.”  Just because you know if you're like “This is my expectation up here and nothing in life ever meets it” you're always gonna be dissatisfied. You know versus kind of a more realistic like “Hey I got up in the morning. There is lung in my air and I am upright on 2 feet. Like life's good. [laughter] you know I am not in crying pain or whatever”. You know. So there's always…always something good that you can focus on as far as being grateful.  I think a huge cancer in our society is…has come to this envy class welfare thing where essentially you know we may be like “Hey I am doing pretty good” and then someone on the news brings stuff up well “You know the richest people in the world are getting richer but the middle class blah blah blah”. And like “How does that affect me?” It doesn't. I was fine until a minute ago until I find out someone has aa billion dollars more than I do and now I am just pissed off.  It's like their success doesn't make me less successful. It's all like envy class welfare politicizing all of this you know stuff like that keeps up pissed off and miserable and ungrateful. You know like focus on what you do have. It could be a whole lot worse and don't always be wanting what someone else has. You know. [Chris]: That's awesome. You know one of the things that I think helps agents when they're…you know when they get beat down and they're starting their career and they have those big failures, is you know just look at it in perspective. We try and keep a support system around them so that they're not going off and wallowing on their own. We try and encourage them to focus on the behavior. Focus on what you need to do. Focus on the actions. Focus on reaching out to your clients or your database and creating a great relationship with them. Focus on doing something to improve somebody's day.  So if your client fell through and you know got stood up at a showing, well now you've got some time that you can go and try and brighten somebody else's day. Somebody that is in your network that you can remind them what you do but also at the same time do something nice for them. To let them know that you're thinking of them.  And I find that when agents do that and they go out and they show gratitude towards everybody else which is awesome. I love that you brought up gratitude. It changes their mindset right. If I am in a really bad mood and I go and do something great for somebody I am not gonna be in that bad mood for a long time. Especially if I can feel good about what I was able to do for someone.  And you know if you get stood up in an appointment you get that deal that falls through just take that as an excuse to have some extra free time to do something good in somebody else's life and eventually that's gonna all pay off as dividends. Because I think too many…too many agents, too many people focus on the short term. They focus on “What are my numbers? What are my numbers? What do my numbers need to be? Why aren't they there?”. And they don't focus on the behaviors. They don't focus on “Am I doing the right thing?”. They are going to eventually lead to a better performance. So I think that's kind of the big thing that I have seen. I don't know. Hopefully it helps answers… [Christian]: I mean I would say just kind of say in wrapping up to some up all this in general having a good attitude which you know starts with those right thoughts, the true thoughts that live in your head you know will lead you to gratitude which will lead you to empathy and hopefully understand the people and be more compassionate will lead you to just being a better more happy satisfied human being [laughter]. Which you know how can you not be successful in life if like that's your outlook. [Chris]: People do business with people they know like and trust. You're happy… [Nathan]: You have a choice people, folks. You have a choice. [Chris]: Yeah if you've got a great outlook, people are gonna want to do business with you. You got a great outlook and you know what you're doing people are gonna want to do business with you and they're gonna refer you to other people. Simple as that. So thanks for tuning in everybody. This has been another episode of re:Think Real Estate. We'll catch you next Monday.  [music]  [Chris]: Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Is there a New Testament diet plan? Should we strive to eat like Adam & Eve would have? Is there anything we are restricted from eating as a Christian? It […] The post CWD Episode 17: Is There a New Testament Diet Plan? appeared first on Broadway Church.

Today Nathan throws out a surprise topic for us to discuss. We talk about the questions people should ask when determining whether a brokerage is for them or not. We want to know what you love best about your brokerage. In the comments tell us what your favorite part is! RTRE_Ep_48  Audio length 29:24 RTRE 48 – What to Ask When Choosing a Brokerage [music] [Chris]:Welcome to re:Think Real Estate, your educational and hopefully entertaining source for all things real estate, business, news and tech.  [Christian]: I am Christian Harris in Seattle, Washington. [Nathan]: Hi, I am Nathan White in Columbus, Ohio. [Chris]: And I am Chris Lazarus in Atlanta, Georgia. Thanks for tuning in.  [music] [Chris]: Everybody and welcome back to re:Think Real Estate. I am Chris Lazarus here with Nathan White and Christian Harris. Guys what's going on guys? [Nathan]: Hey what's happening? I am trying to stay warm in the polar vortex here but it's only one day people so don't panic, it's not a week long. [Nathan]: How cold is it there right now? [Christian]: It's about 7 degrees. It's the end of January we're recording this.  [Chris]: It's gone up a little bit since we talked last. Our entire state shut down for a little bit of rain so Georgia is closed now [laughter]. [Nathan]: And if it even gets flurries in Georgia it's like the apocalypse like it's hysterical. [Chris]: Well I mean no joke we are 5 years to the date from Snowmageddon. Like the time hop came up on Facebook “5 years to the date from Snowmageddon today”. And last time that happened I ended up having to walk 11 miles on icy roads back to the house because my car wasn't getting me there. So…Yeah I mean Georgia does not know how to deal with that stuff. [Christian]: It's legit. [Nathan]: Like 2 inches of snow or just a little ice? [Chris]: It wasn't 2 inches but it was like a maybe a quarter inch of snow on top of an inch of ice.  [Christian]: Ice will…Ice will mess up your day so… [Chris]: Yeah ice did it.  [Nathan]: When you were talking about ice I saw that you were talking about something. [Chris]: No yeah so… [Nathan]: What are we gonna talk about? [Chris]: Nate is gonna surprise us with today's topic. [Nathan]:[censored]. [Chris]: Nate what are we talking about today? [Nathan]: So you know we've talked about this before but I am gonna go to the…you know we're in a public group. I think all 3 of us are on it. The…the Inman coast to coast and somebody earlier this week posted again about how to choose a brokerage. And I want to say maybe it was Tanya or somebody. I forget who put the…the questions to ask out there.  But did you guys see that about an agent going to choosing a brokerage? Because some of this I agree with, some I don't agree with at all so I thought it might be good to go back and talk a little bit more about this. Maybe we have some new agents since we started doing this that you know are in that struggle bus of “Hey I am stuck here” or “I don' know what to do. I didn't…I didn't choose right”. And so these questions…These questions [background noise] Whats that? Sorry. [Christian]: Did you just say struggle bus? [Nathan]: Yeah. Struggle bus. [laughter]. [Christian]: OK I just wanted to make sure I heard that right. OK. [Nathan]: Yeah so if you guys check your email I just sent you that.  [Chris]: Yeah I am looking at it right now. [Nathan]: Right so like if you look through some of this like I don't know if I agree with all of this. Of course I never agree with everything, right. [Chris]: You never agree with anything. [Christian]: You're super agreeable. What are you talking about? [Nathan]: I am so… [Chris]: You're the “Yes man”. [Nathan]: Oh my God you all are ridiculous. [laughter] [Christian]: I am…I looked over this a little bit… [Chris]: I am seeing this for the first time. Let's talk through it. [Christian]: So you're talking about…You're talking about kind of the generic agent guide to choosing brokerage that is out there? [Nathan]: Yeah. [Chris]: Yeah. We're not gonna say who it is put out by but there's a guide out there. Alright so first step in this guide research. What's this? “Pull MLS numbers for at least 3 years for the office. Volume, transaction count, map the transaction if your MLS offers that feature. Know how far from the office they are.”  I don't know. If you're a new agent, you don't have access to the MLS.  [Christian]: Yeah. So what I found in general is that whatever brokers you go to in you're quote interviewing with them they're going to spat out the stuff that makes them look best right? [Chris]: Yeah. [Christian]: So if they're agent heavy they're gonna be like “Oh we dominate the market by agent numbers”. If they're you know actually killing it in volume or, you know, gross sales that's what they're gonna…that's what they're gonna highlight.  So you know the thing is if you're a new agent how does the brokerage production help you? I mean it…it doesn't directly. Now it might indirectly because OK maybe there is a lot of experienced agents that you can shadow or piggy back on. But just because they're productive doesn't mean it will help you do yours. They're busy. You know and now they're hinting like if you have in mind “OK I am gonna do open houses.” OK you're gonna need an office that has listings , you know. Now you don't need it in there they're not here. You can call other agents and brokerages if they're willing to collaborate… [Chris]: What they do that? [Christian]: Well it's not…it's not a culturally…I don't know. Some do. You know if they have a more collaborative mind set. I mean I all about that but not…Most franchises don't have that. Might be more in the “Protect your own” mind set. So…They'd rather not do an open house rather than have someone from another broker do their open house. [Chris]: That should never happen. Not in my state. [Nathan]: Well you know here's another one on here that really tripped me up. This is a value aid and establish. “Why the office of the brokerage you're interviewing with is or isn't successful.”  How do you define success in a brokerage? [Christian]: Right what are your metrics success? [Nathan]: Right I mean. [Christian]: Numbers and profitability but you're not gonna know the profitability numbers. [Nathan]: Right. I mean you know our brokerage doesn't do a gazillion transactions but I believe the ones that we do do are very high quality. So, meaning from…you know from a client experience. So again I don't know you know if that counts or not. It's like saying “Oh I am hearing another party say look at agent reviews on yelp or Zillow”. I mean [censored] I am not interviewing like…That's not applicable to me I guess so I struggle… [Christian]: But when it comes to researching a brokerage what would you say? I mean I don't think these are super valid because they center around like on traditional like sales like…Do they do a lot of business? And that than quantifies whether they're a good brokerage which I think has nothing to do with is a good brokerage or not. Maybe.  I mean I guess you could kind of determine market saturation or market share but again as a new agent is that really gonna help you I mean unless you're in a small town and there is a dominant brokerages and a bunch of other small ones that don't do anything. I mean here in Seattle there's tons of brokerage and they all have their…they're all getting those things. They're all doing sales. You know it's not one, It's like crushing it you know. [Chris]: Well I think it all depends because everybody's definition of success in real estate is different.  [Christian]: Yeah. [Chris]: You know I was speaking to one of my agents about this the other day because as we bring in agents you know depending upon where they are in their life cycle they may have different goals. Like some of our agents are retired from one career. Do we expect that those agents are going to hustle and grind and built a massive business working hundreds of hours every month just for a few years? Probably not. You know those people are probably getting into this to do a few transactions a year, have a place to come, learn, hang out, interact with people and have fun.  And then we have some other people that are getting into this for the exact reason I just mentioned. They want to grow something big. And it's not our job as the brokerage to define what that success is. That's up to them. Our goal is to provide the infrastructure, the culture, the support necessary for them to build what they want to build. At least that's my philosophy on it and you know…go ahead. [Christian]: Yeah I mean that's a good point is that there's not one definition of success as an agent. You know there's gonna be the younger people that don't have family and nothing better to do but grind it out for 80 hours a week. Other ones that are mostly, you know, full time, stay at home parents or something that are gonna do occasional job, you know. [Chris]: Absolutely. So this question that they ask in here, this bullet point I think is excellent which is “Ask the broker about his or her story as an agent, team lead, sales manager or broker owner. To what do they attribute their success? And you want to under…you want to uncover his or her core beliefs about what makes a successful agent”.  I think that is an excellent point. When you're…when you're looking for finding out what firm you want to work for it's gonna be the team of people that you're surrounding yourself with and knowing their core values. If they're not transparent about it. If they're transparent about it you should know their core values you know within you know the first round of interviews with them. But if they're not asking questions like this would be fantastic as an agent looking to find a right…a different brokerage.  [Nathan]: Yeah I agree. That's…That's a helpful question in there. Some of the ones like I said I struggled with. That one is good. I was talking to somebody the other day and they said “What about getting this person to come in and be a manager”. And I was like “Yeah but the problem with them managing is they don't actually have any history”.  I have a big struggle on my struggle bus that there Mr. Harris [laughter] for people who coach or who lead that don't have any history or is very minimal. And so how do you…Say somebody is running this office or brokerage X and they go in and they're recruiting and you ask them you know “How's your history” and they go “Well you know I stopped selling 10 years ago now I just coach”.  I kind of look at somebody like [censored]. Like that's not even relevant now. 10 years I mean that's like 100 years in real estate world so I don't think you would be helpful. I think you have to be current and I think you need to be somewhat of a producing broker to a degree or one that is heavily involved with their agents' development and still maybe…I don't know you guys would probably tell me I am wrong since I am the agent you all are the brokers but you know you only have to do a couple transactions a year just to stay fresh I would feel like. But to tune out I think it would be a mistake.  [Christian]: Yeah I think that's kind of a good point in regards to like I was listening to…I had something in Inman Connects New York livestream this morning and someone was talking about the difference between the focus of the brokerage and the agent or specifically in that context the team. And the brokerage model, traditional brokerage model is head count. They focus solely on head count.  Now you may do that through you know training or some other low thing to lure agents in. But [cough] I think part of the brokerage responsibility is when you're interviewing an agent flashing out “What are your goals for the expectations? Can we match that?” Or you know. Now maybe most brokerages don't care. We're smaller so I think we can kind of customize or at least make sure it's gonna be a good fit. Because one of these questions in here is ask if you can ride along, you know basically shadow an experienced agent. Because I mean that's a great way for a new agent to learn.  Now Chris I know you have like a required mentor program which is great but that's one of the…as many awesome things to see on offers that's one of our weak spots is that we're not huge and so we don't have a lot of agents that can you know that have enough business to be able to “Hey we have a new agent can they shadow you on your listing today?” Like… [Chris]: It took us a while to get to that. [Christian]: Yeah it's gonna take a while. [Chris]: Yeah.  [Christian]: But I think that's good because I did…the one agent I had lost and you know there's nothing I could have really done about it is just the nature of how big we are was they wanted to, you know, shadow someone's business. Someone who is you know doing a lot of business. And we just don't have a ton of agents doing you know huge amounts of business everyday. You know so they left so they can mentor under someone who was. And I totally get that, you know. Hopefully it won't get to the pace where, you know, that won't be an issue. But we're small, new and scrappy so you know your strengths and you know your weaknesses. [Chris]: Yeah I think that I saw here a description of the office culture, head count, tenure of the agents, breaking it down into head count and turning it over rate, the agent or broker's involvement in the local, regional NAR leadership. The broker agents' involvement in state and national associations, outside or NAR and the broker and agent involvement in local community school boards, charities.  I think that's a pretty good description of an office. Like if you can as a broker owner…If I am sitting down having a conversation with somebody these are things that I know and can recite you know in my sleep about who is doing what because these are things that we promote. But, you know, having an office that encourages involvement…A lot of offices don't do it maybe because they're afraid that when they put their agents around other agents the other agents are gonna try and recruit them.  That's not necessarily the case because there are a lot of agents that I get around that I don't want to recruit. Being in those positions. But it's still important that when we're in this industry that we do our best to support our industry and that when we are serving our communities we are doing the best to support our communities through local charities and organizations.  So having a company that supports that stuff goes to describe how their culture operates and it puts the priorities in perspective you know and just know that with turnover rate it's not always…Sometimes that needs a description. Because for us right now we're releasing agents 2 to 1 because we have become a lot more selective in who we are hiring than who we are letting go. We are letting a lot of licenses laps that are non-performers and that's one of the reasons that our productivity has gone from like 300k per person to like 1.1 million per person. So there are other things in there that need to be picked and taken into account. [Christian]: Yeah and I would say that that focus on culture is because big I mean it's really easy to quantify your split or you [cough] some of these other things that agents tend to focus on like how much money are they gonna be taking home. Now what that doesn't take into account is well “Is the brokerage is gonna support me? Am I gonna flourish there? I am I gonna hate it when I am working around. Am I gonna hate doing the work you know into the office you know. Are you gonna be part of something bigger that you're on board with?”  And I think all that closely ties into like the brand of the brokerage. What are they known for? Are they involved? Do they encourage agents involvement? And really if you hone that as a brokerage and you have a line with your agents and that's what they're drawn to you're not gonna be afraid of losing them because a big franchise down the road that doesn't have, you know, a healthy culture like that or doesn't…Isn't known for something other than name recognition of their franchise. Like there's nothing there for them. Like they're gonna love who they're asked you know what you provide. You know it's really hard to quantify that cultural experience, that feeling of satisfaction of knowing “Doing what I am doing, I am involved, I am helping, I am part of the listing and not just you know a number on the spreadsheet”. [Chris]: Absolutely.  [Nathan]: Well you know if you look at this document I mean it's great but I really think they could have skipped all the way to the bottom and point 4 like the bullet points there I think is perfect. “Do you fully understand what a brokerage is offering here?”. What I find most agents even when they switch to another one still don't understand what they're getting offered. “Do you trust the broker?” You would be working with them. I think that's important. “Do the claims of the brand line up with everything that is isn't offered to agents and clients.” “Do the principals and beliefs align with those of brokers and managers?” That's huge. “Does the brokerage provide what you need now in the future and for the development?” Like to me that sums up the only questions you need to answer almost but above the other stuff. Yeah. [Christian]: And I think it kind of makes sense. I mean I think it could be more concise but I mean those are kind of the…These are bottom line what you wanna make sure you're getting and all the questions up above will help you get to those answers.  [Nathan]: Right I mean those are the…That's the guts of my struggle bus for those people. I…And the reason I say like when you don't want people to make a switch…I've got a colleague who just made switch to another brokerage. And when she left her original one she thought you know  “Hey you know I understand everything”.  She went to the new one and 6 months down the road she went “I didn't really understand the numbers”. And I was like…you know I don't want to use her name but “Hey Sussie how did you not of all people”. Like I expected her to really understand the numbers and she didn't. I think she actually might have paid more at the new brokerage that she went to. You know because she originally left brokerage number 1 because her fees were so high. She goes the second one. Didn't know the math well and ended up paying more.  [Chris]: Sure. [Christian]: Well I think that tied into the “Do you trust the brokerage”. I had an agent who…who I think had made up her mind you know that she was gonna leave. You know it implements new monthly fee because we're losing money on not producing brokers…not producing agents. And I am like “Kate you may think that you're gonna pay less over here but let's talk about this”.  And you know after talking about it and she talks to some other people about “Oh I didn't realize that I had to be a member of the NAR which is another $600 every…” whatever, “I didn't realize that they also did desk fee” and blah blah blah and than I was like “OK you actually have it really good here”.  You know and so…and maybe you know putting some of that back on media and brokerage. Can you get the value there and so she thought she would find it somewhere else. But half the time you know they end up leaving thinking the grass is greener. And than “Oh hey they were sold at fallen stolen goods” you know. You don't realize it until after you leave. After you go somewhere else.  [Nathan]: Right. Right they don't understand it. [Chris]: I got that from a couple of agents. They left and now they want to come back and they were on like one of our old legacy plans and they don't get that option anymore. And that they're like “Oh [laughter] wow this is gonna cost me more?”. Like “Yeah yeah we're doing a lot more now. You had it good. You lost”. So I mean that's another thing for agents. If you're thinking about making a move see what your broker can do.  If you're moving…there was an article that came out a little while ago about why agents make a move. And a lot of brokers think that number 1 is because of the cost. But it's not. I think one of the number 1 reasons is the number 1 and number 2 but it was “Is the broker in their corner? Does the broker have their back?” And then the other one was “What is the culture like at the office?” Because if a lot of…for the most part brokers are gonna make relatively smaller amounts of money. And it's all gonna depend on what they're offering and what their expenses are but you know we're gonna make our profit margin. Hopefully. That's the goal. And if… [Christian]: Wait you're profitable? That must be nice [laughter]. [Chris]: We're investing a lot of it back into the company. But we are making what we need to be making off of them so that we can invest it back into the company and our agents see that but the second thing is culture. Are you working in an environment that you feel that you have the people around you supporting you?  And those 2 were the biggest reasons that agents make jumps. It's not because of the desk fees. It's not because of the NAR fees. It's not because of the monthly fees. Sometimes it is but usually that's when we see people going from very high splits to something that is a little bit more along the lines of the Indie broker margin. Kind of the Indie broker model. Where we have a little bit more flexibility there and we lose the franchise fees. But other than that it's culture and is “Does the broker have my back? Is the office there to support me?” [Christian]: I definitely have to agree with that. I think a lot of agents lead with the cost but I mean in the grand scheme of things I mean there's not…If you're productive I mean what you're gonna end up paying isn't that different over you know a year. You know but it does come down to that culture and that…what was that other thing you said? [Chris]: Culture and support. [Christian]: Culture and? Support yes. Yeah that's huge because I have had agents that come over you know who come over because they're like “How available are you? I can't get a hold of my broker when I have questions for 2 days.” And I am like “That's ridiculous. What are they doing? It's their job”. [laughter]  You know and so it being smaller and not having so many agents and you seeing my primary job and been in the office to support agents you know I mean that's big you know. And just a tip. If you had an office you're not really sure what their culture is, if you want to get a good gage of it pay attention to how they respond when an agent leaves. If they're nasty and two faced get out of there. Get out of that office.  And that was my first office. Like day to day it was OK. It wasn't openly hostile but as soon as you know…Someone who you know agent X was quote “friends” with and helping out one day and they left and the next day they're “Oh that person I knew blah blah blah they're terrible”. And you're gonna be like “What aren't we all in this together? What's this brand loyalty to a franchise that doesn't have your back? Like what do you care as an agent whether or not another agent left?” Like you know like they're being personally, like a personal slide against you know the agent that another agent left.  [Nathan]: Man the colleague that I was talking about earlier when she left her original team you know they went [laughter] Death Con 4 on her. I was like “You don't want to be in a place like that”. Like… [Christian]: It shows your true colors either as an agent or you know as…Like if I hear that as a broker I squash that. I am like “No we are collaborative, we are all on this together. I want what's best for them and if they feel going to another brokerage gives them what they need he no pep talk. I want to support them in there”.  [Nathan]: That makes me think of Tracey Chambers, who is my first team lead. I was…the team lead at the office at Callow Aims [phonetics] and I will applaud her. When I told her I was leaving she said “Nathan I wish you all the best and if you ever want to come back here know the door is always opened and I will welcome you with open arms and if you have any questions feel free to call me”. I still call her. She was awesome and that tells you a lot about her.  [Christian]: And speaks to character and that's what's gonna be the biggest differentiator and the difference between agents. It's not skills, not experience, it's character. Are you gonna do the right thing? [Nathan]: I don't know if we answered any questions actually on this list of things. But I think it's important to talk about again from just an agent perspective because again as a new agent and maybe even within the first year or 2 you just don't know all the questions to ask. And it's…and a lot of it is ambiguous because you can't put value on certain things.  [Christian]: Yeah I think it's a good starting point. I mean I have had one agent who came in with questions and I loved it. You know it would be like “Hey these are some questions I have” and I think they kind of got them offline or you know another brokerage they were interviewing or something. And I am basically like “That question doesn't matter because of this. This question is irrelevant because of that. That's a good question. Let's talk about it.”  You know. So it could be a good place to start but like you said as a new agent you're not really sure what you need to be asking. What questions mater or not. [Chris]: Yeah so I mean we…I think the last time we talked about you know choosing a brokerage and how the brokerage works. That was like early early last year, right around when we just launched. [Nathan]: First 5 episodes maybe. [Chris]: Yeah yeah something like that but I think regardless of where you are in your career if you are new or if you are a seasoned veteran I think the message is you need to understand if there is…if your office is toxic, if your office is not fun to work in, if your leadership is undermining management, if your…if you're not receiving the right support the message is there are brokers out there where that does not exist.  There are brokerages that do have proper support, that do have a good culture and that are fun to work at. And I think that a lot of the brokers who have quotas that they need to meet on the recruiting side I think that those…their attention is in the wrong place and that the broker owner does not have enough time to dedicate to the support of the office.  So that's my message. If you're in a position where you're not sure what's gonna happen with your career, if you're not happy with the people that you're working with my message is just go out and try and meet a few brokers because there are places that do exist where that's not a problem. [Christian]: Yeah. [Nathan]: Yeah I mean I agree. That sums it up about as good as you can get. If you got questions you know what you can do? Email us. We'll answer them [laughter]. [Christian]: I am interested and see what questions…you know…Yeah comments, you know. Leave comments. What are the questions? You know what are the questions that agents should be asking or brokerages should be asking to their agents to make sure it's a good fit?  [Chris]: And email us and tell us what you think about your brokerage. Why is your brokerage a great place to work? I think that… [Christian]: Yeah that's good. [Chris]: What do you like most about your brokerage? We don't want to hear the bad things. We hear the bad things all the time. Let us know what you think is the best part about your brokerage? I think that just about sums it up for this episode of re:Think Real Estate. Thank you so much for tuning in for this impromptu topic brought you by Nate. Thank you Nate. We'll catch you next week.  [music] [Chris]:  Thanks for tuning in this week's episode of the re:Think Real Estate Podcast. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave us a review on iTunes. Our music is curtesy of Dan Koch K-O-C-H, whose music can be explored and licensed for use at dankoch.net. Thank you Dan. Please like, share and follow. You can find us on Facebook at Facebook.com/rethinkpodcast. Thank you so much for tuning in everyone and have a great week.  [music]  

Series: N/AService: Sun AM WorshipType: SermonSpeaker: Philip WilliamsDo you ever lose your focus as a Christian? It's really easy to get distracted. In this lesson we look at just 3 of Jesus' teachings that will help us overcome distraction and keep ourselves focused on what really matters.

Following on from Dave’s talks on repentance Neal looked at Sanctification – The work of the Holy Spirit to cleanse us from all unrighteousness and make us Holy – more Christ like. We started by looking at 1 Corinthians 6 vs 9-11 And such were some of you But God came You were washed – Baptised in Water/Cleansed by the blood Of Jesus You were sanctified – Made Holy – Free from sin or guilt You were Justified – You are not Guilty! Justified is about our position in Christ – Not based on our experience - You are either condemned or justified and we have been found not guilty – so we are justified by the blood of Jesus and found not guilty. Romans 8 vs 1 – There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus – Why? Because we have been found not guilty! There is no condemnation for past sins, for present sins and for future sins. Romans 5 vs 18-20 – Sanctification – We are like rough diamonds – we need to be washed, cleansed and cut to create something beautiful – that is the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives – taking us as sinners and creating something beautiful. Romans 6 vs 12-23 – The picture Paul gives is one of being slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness – We are no longer slaves to sin - sin may call but you do not have to follow – resist the enemy and he will flee from you! We hear people say Its just how I am? Its part of my character I was born like that Its just my nature And yet we are told that we are a new creation and we have been born again by the Holy Spirit? God changes us day by day, week by week, year by year – He renews our thinking and our actions – we are no longer controlled by our own nature but are a new creation in Christ! 2 Corinthians 5 vs 17-21 and Colossians 3 vs 5-15 were the readings So why doesn’t God just sanctify us completely when we become a Christian – It would be so much easier! We know that eventually when Jesus returns the Church will be presented to Jesus as a beautiful bride, holy and pure – and that’s us – but why wait? Because this is part of God’s great plan and we have to reply on him to achieve it! It’s based on our relationship with God rather than being told what to do – based on love – we sin and it breaks our relationship so we need to come back – be forgiven and be filled back up everyday. Also would pride be an issue? We could and probably would think that we had something to do with our own righteousness rather than our total reliance on God. 2 Corinthians 4 vs 7- 10 – Treasure in jars of clay Titus 3 vs 4-6 – He saved us not on the basis of deeds done in righteousness but according to his mercy! Sanctification works in us day by day to cleanse us, smooth down the rough edges and bring forth something of value and beauty – Galations 5 vs 16-26 – The result – The fruit of the spirit – This is what we want – to be more like Jesus and have the fruits of the spirit evident in our daily lives – more love, more joy, more patience, more kindness, more goodness, more faithfulness, more gentleness and more self control. How? If we live by the spirit – let us also walk by the Spirit! Questions 1. We looked at the difference today between justification and sanctification? Are we clear on the differences? 2. How does my natural person/personality sit with the fact that we are a new creation in Christ – Does this make a difference in our lives? 3. Slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness? Why is this such a battleground in our lives? 4. Can you see the work of sanctification in your lives – are you the same now as when you first became a Christian?

  Jesus and me! G' day welcome to Partakers and the last planned in this little series, Jesus and you, where we looked at some people in the Gospel record, who met Jesus and how he changed their life and perceptions. Today its Jesus and me! Almost everybody has an opinion of the man Jesus Christ! Countless millions worship him today and down through history! People sometimes ask me "Who is my Jesus?" "Who is my Jesus?" My Jesus Christ, is the man who splits history BC & AD! The man who we claim is the messiah and saviour as spoken about by the prophets of old and written about by those who met Him... My Jesus Christ, the man who healed the sick, fought for justice, did many great deeds, filled with compassion, driven on by joy and in constant conversation with God the Father. My Jesus Christ, is the man who claimed to be God and was God! Jesus who emptied Himself, made Himself nothing, so as to take on human form. Jesus Christ, fully human and yet fully God. My Jesus Christ, is the most amazing man who ever lived, born of a woman, in a humble stable. Jesus Christ, the man born to die that he may come back alive and give all people a chance to live forever. My Jesus Christ, is the man who died on a grubby Roman cross, pierced, battered, bruised and scarred. Jesus Christ, the God-man who died physically. Jesus Christ, buried within and sealed into a cold empty tomb. My Jesus Christ, is the man who conquered death, came back alive as witnessed by uncountable others. Jesus Christ who defeated the sting of sin, so that humanity may choose to live forever! My Jesus Christ, whose very death and resurrection we celebrate at Easter, who ascended to the right hand of God the Father. This Jesus Christ, who with the Father, sent the Holy Spirit to transform into His own image, all who choose to follow Him. My Jesus Christ, who covers His followers in His own robe of righteousness so that they would be acceptable to God the Father. Jesus Christ, coming again soon in glory to judge humanity and claim those who follow Him. Jesus Christ who calls to you and I "Come and follow!" That is my Jesus Christ! But, you may be asking yourself, why are you a Christian and identify yourself as such? Why am I a Christian? "We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1 John 5:9-12 -  I am a Christian not because of anything I have done! No, nothing I could do or have done would have made me a Christian. Rather, it is because He first chased me, and because He first loved me. Jesus himself said "I came to seek and to save the lost" (Luke 19v10). God was chasing me and following my every path. Why am I a Christian? It is because of the events at Christmas and Easter that I am a Christian! The dual events, in harmony, when God entered this world as a human baby and took all the necessary steps so that all people could have the choice to be His people or not. In my more smug moments I used to congratulate myself for being a Christian. How proud I was that I, Dave, was a Christian and that God was a jolly lucky God that I had decided to follow Him. It was during one of my less self-deluded moments, that I examined myself and I found God pricking my conscience and correcting me, and I read the New Testament "For the Son of Man came, not to be served but to serve and give His life as a ransom for many" (Mark10v45). Jesus calls you! If you would not call yourself a Christian today, and this Jesus appeals to you, this Jesus who speaks with authority, and you want to become a Christian there are three simple steps to follow. Firstly, admit that you have done wrong against God and His ways. Secondly, believe and trust in Jesus.  Call on Him, receive, trust, obey and worship Him, recognizing Him for who He is and what He has done. Lastly, confess Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.   Once sin has been confessed, and Jesus is believed in and trusted as Saviour, then you are a Christian. Now you are ready as Peter writes in the Bible, "to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 3:18). Christian discipleship is a lifetime commitment!  Welcome to the family of God. It isnt just becoming a convert but rather a life long follower wanting to be more like Jesus Christ in what we call being a disciple. God has chosen you; Jesus has paid for you and has put His mark within you through His Spirit (Ephesians 1:1-13). Finally, I ask again, who do you say this Jesus is? But further, what are you going to do with this Jesus and let Him do to you? Thank you. Again, I ask, who do you say Jesus is? But further, what are you going to do with this Jesus and let Him do to you? Right mouse click or tap here to save/download this as a MP3 audio file   You can now purchase our Partakers books! Please do click or tap here to visit our Amazon site! Click or tap on the appropriate link below to subscribe, share or download our iPhone App!

When my daughter was eleven-years old, she asked, “If you do something wrong, are you still a Christian?” It was one of those “can you lose your salvation” questions. She asked it during a time when other things were going on, so I did not take the time to talk to her about it. Read Here: https://rickthomas.net/a-discussion-with-daddy-and-daughter-about-justification-and-sanctification/ Will you help us so we can continue to provide free content to the world? You can become a supporting member here rickthomas.net/recurring-membership/ Or you can make a one-time or recurring donation(s) here rickthomas.net/donations/

更多英语知识，请关注微信公众号: VOA英语每日一听 Todd: OK, Christian, what is your dream job, if you could have any job in the world?Christian: My dream job is to become a diplomat representing my country, preferably in Japan. That's why I came to Japan to learn Japanese and hopefully obtain a master degree in International Relations. After getting my master's degree in International Relations, I would like to go home and enter the diplomat school for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which is a three-year program, and then, after that hopefully come back to Japan and work for the Norwegian Embassy in Tokyo.Todd: Must be pretty competitive.Christian: It's very competitive, but I think if you know a certain language that not many people speak it gives you a competitive edge nevertheless so that's why I came to Japan because I know at this stage there are only 300 hundred people from Norway living in Japan and not all of them are here to study Japanese, they represent different companies or schools, or they're missionaries so, that's the track I'm on right now but we'll see how it goes in the end.Todd: How about when you were a child, what was your dream job? Did you want to be a diplomat when you said, 10?Christian: No, when I was ten I probably didn't know what I wanted to do. I was just too busy playing in the street, you know, having fun with my friends and these things. When I was that young I really didn't have a dream job like fireman, police. I never really went through that stage, you know.Todd: I wanted to be a baseball player.Christian: Alright, fair enough.Todd: I'm still dreaming.Christian: Oh, that's good.

What is the most dangerous activity to the Christian? It might not be what you think it is. Listen to find out what can be even more dangerous than sin in our lives.

  Paul and Gina meet up with Christian Madsbjerg to discuss the ideas behind his new book, “Sensemaking: The Power of Humanities in the Age of the Algorithm” What happens when you take a philosopher out of their element and plunk them into management? How can the business and tech worlds benefit from the humanities? Are we putting too much trust into algorithms and the promise of artificial intelligence? Courtesy of ReD Associates Just because Google does it, doesn’t mean we should do it too: This week Paul Ford and Gina Trapani meet with Christian Madsbjerg, author of Sensemaking: The Power of Humanities in the Age of the Algorithm. Christian ruminates on the limits of the algorithm, bringing human insight into tech and business where artificial intelligence falls short, and the impact of Elon Musk (ed. note: unfortunaltey this interview was recorded before the Met Gala) 4:00 — Christian: “Philosophers are for critique and against suggesting anything. But if you want to make something, you’ve got to suggest something.” 4:55 — Christian: “[Philosophers] see there’s still a way to have integrity in what you’re doing, and still deal with the kinds of things and the way they want to deal with them but in a different world.” 7:15 — Christian: “I suppose philosophy is just making manifestos — what’s sort of underneath us all the time, and that we didn’t think about. What’s happening, at least in the technology space right now, it’s this big reckoning. There’s this big sort of realization that there’s more to this than we thought there was. That’s what a philosopher would do, they would ask, ‘based on what do you say that? What are the underlying assumptions?’” 8:15 — Paul: “A vast number of our conversations… are ultimately about ethics. It’s a constant refrain through the organization. It’s daily and it’s top-to-bottom. Everything we do — maybe also because we deal with so many abstractions and so many requirements from the client — it’s more about preventing unethical situations.” 10:40 — Christian: “It’s often a group of people that aren’t like you and trying to understand what their life is like. ‘What is it like to be them?’ is the basic idea. You can enter their world and you can enter it in a way that can inform that world with whatever you’re making. 13:45 — Christian: “There are things we humans can do that we don’t understand yet. The fact that the machine can beat us in chess doesn’t mean that it can beat us in every other aspect of life, including understanding each other.” 16:20 — Paul: “No one is going to buy a car that sacrifices your life to save another life… We’re about to hit a wall. This is where capitalism and ethics are about to have a very exciting moment around self driving cars.” 16:45 — Christian: “Another way to think about driverless cars is [asking] are they really so attractive? Some people enjoy driving cars […]and that’s worth something as well. Another way of seeing it is that you can look at the people that get slaughtered in traffic every day, but does that really mean that all cars have to be driverless? Isn’t it a magical thing if you think about all the people that step into a car every day and they somehow find their way through these streets and they don’t crash?” 20:50 — Christian: “I wish [Elon Musk] would represent a more interesting dream for eighteen-year-olds than going to Mars.” 21:05 — Christian: “The first process is that in any public institution or any company there is a language that is often native to that place… The first thing is to translate that business language, or the language of the institution, into a human language. So how would human beings think about this? What would be the human phenomenon at the heart of this?” 24:15 — Paul: “So sensemaking as a practice is observing and understanding an organization well enough that you now have a foundation for organizational change, for defining what needs to happen now.” 25:55 — Christian: “The humanities are the place where you can try to exercise the muscle of [understanding] others in the most advanced way… The world of literature and art is a place where you can see human worlds in a way that’s advanced and interesting and often beautiful. So, often, the people that are good at [sensemaking] have a level of sensitivity to it.” A full transcript of this episode is available. LINKS Sensemaking: The Power of the Humanities in the Age of the Algorithm by Christian Madsbjerg ReD Associates The Moment of Clarity: Using the Human Sciences to Solve Your Toughest Business Problems by Christian Madsbjerg Elon Musk wants to colonize Mars with SpaceX Track Changes is the weekly technology and culture podcast from Postlight, hosted by Paul Ford and Rich Ziade. Production, show notes and transcripts by EDITAUDIO. Podcast logo and design by Will Denton of Postlight. 

Biggest Takeaways You Don't Want To Miss: Be a hero-maker, not the hero. Invest in the development of men and women who can provide wise counsel to others. This builds a network of counselors with a variety of strengths and levels of expertise. Don’t outsource what your church is capable of handling. While we are strong advocates of outside counsel, a significant part of your network is made up of people inside the church. Wisdom isn’t reserved for Christians. When looking for help from outside counselors/therapists, look for the best help regardless of their professed religion. Would you not consider a world-class brain surgeon because he or she was not a Christian? It takes a village to help people get healthy and stay healthy. Don’t let your ideals keep people from getting real help. Use our FREE Guide to discover how to build a counseling network. Our conversation set up the basics for you. Now build on that awareness and take action. Based on his expertise as a therapist, Tal walks you step-by-step through the process of designing and developing the counseling network your church needs. Download it here! Links Mentioned In The Episode RESOURCE - “Counseling Network” GET HELP - Ask Matt and Tal a Question Five Factors Coaching - fivefactors.net/join Five Factors Facebook Group FOLLOW: Matt (twitter.com/mattadair) and Tal (twitter.com/talprince)   Watch on YouTube   Click here to Subscribe via iTunes Click here to Subscribe via iHeartRadio Click here to Subscribe via Stitcher Click here to Subscribe via Google Play Click here to Subscribe via TuneIn

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/citizensvideopodcast/~3/6BTPLt0x5SU/citizens-easter-souls-and-situations.htmlcreative@citizenschurch.org (Citizens Church)noCitizens ChurchCitizens,Church,Citizens,Live,Citizens,church,Redlands,Jesus,Christ,Jesus,Christ,God,Christian,Christianit

Michael's guest on this podcast is the first "alumni guest" on Restoring the Soul. Author, musician and speaker, Andy Crouch, joins Michael in a concluding discussion about his book, "The Tech-Wise Family".Andy is an eloquent communicator who masterfully makes connections between culture, creativity, and the Christianit faith. He is also on the gobverning boards of Fuller Theological Seminary as well as the Council for Christan Colleges and Universities. For more than 10 years he was an editor and producer at Christianity Today including serving as the Executive Editor from 2012-2016. Andy joined the John Templeton Foundation in 2017 as Senior Strategist for Communication and his work and writing have been featured in The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and Time Magazine.Andy Crouch is the author of several books including "Culture Making", "Playing God", and "Strong and Weak" (which in his first appearance on Restoring the Soul, we explored in-depth). On this podcast Michael and Andy will discuss, "The Tech-Wise Family: Everyday Steps for Putting Technology in Its Proper Place". According to Andy's website, "Making good choices about technology is more than just using internet filters and limiting “screen time.” It’s about developing wisdom, character, and courage in the way we use digital media, rather than accepting technology’s promises of ease, instant gratification, and the world’s knowledge at our fingertips."

Michael's guest for the next two podcasts is the first "alumni guest" on Restoring the Soul. Author, musician and speaker, Andy Crouch, joins Michael in discussion about his book, "The Tech-Wise Family".Andy is an eloquent communicator who masterfully makes connections between culture, creativity, and the Christianit faith. He is also on the gobverning boards of Fuller Theological Seminary as well as the Council for Christan Colleges and Universities. For more than 10 years he was an editor and producer at Christianity Today including serving as the Executive Editor from 2012-2016. Andy joined the John Templeton Foundation in 2017 as Senior Strategist for Communication and his work and writing have been featured in The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and Time Magazine.Andy Crouch is the author of several books including "Culture Making", "Playing God", and "Strong and Weak" (which in his first appearance on Restoring the Soul, we explored in-depth). On this podcast Michael and Andy will discuss, "The Tech-Wise Family: Everyday Steps for Putting Technology in Its Proper Place". According to Andy's website, "Making good choices about technology is more than just using internet filters and limiting “screen time.” It’s about developing wisdom, character, and courage in the way we use digital media, rather than accepting technology’s promises of ease, instant gratification, and the world’s knowledge at our fingertips." 

Esoteric AF is a special collaboration between Dominant Yoga Radio and Waking Life Podcast. Make sure to follow Dominant Yoga on Facebook and Waking Life Podcast on Instagram.Download.

Christopher "C-Free" Fremin, host of Dominant Yoga Radio, joins us for our first Conscious Co-Creators episode! Let's learn how to make America esoteric again by de-occulting some of the dankest spiritual knowledge there is to be known. Download.

Adrien discusses bringing more effort into the workplace, Joy and Erica are having a tough week, and is Will and Joys Marraige headed for divorce? Adrien and Ericas faith based approach to marraige shines through.  

Are you wearing your hard hat Christian? It’s time to put the verb back into “work.” Instructions, inspiration, and an invitation to build is found in David’s last commission. Scripture: 1 Chronicles 28:1Speaker: Daniel LangeDate: January 3, 2016Video available at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOStR9ABpmU

Christian: It's Not What You Think It Is: Part 8 - Working It Out

Team Faith's Chuck Lemaster explores the question, "Why is it bad to be a Christian?" It is illegal in certain countries. ISIS is killing people for being a follower of Christ. Even in America on Memorial Day when we celebrate those who died to give us freedom, we see Christians being put under pressure to change their ideology. If being a "Christian" is to follow Jesus Christ who taught, "love your neighbors and your enemies," then WHY is it such a bad thing? Chuck takes most of the message to build the case and then provides a not-so-comfortable answer toward the end.

Praise The Lord Everybody!  Since we had such a grand time on last week, we decided to have another inspiration episode of "Glorious Gospel Vibes"!  Tune in and join us this Sunday, February 2, 2014 with your hosts Globee Pope and Min. Derrick Tuggle as they discuss ways to find God In The Music!  Minister Lois "Candee" Vernon will be in 'da house proclaiming to the roof top that Jesus Is Lord with 'Inspiration Corner'.  So don't forget to tune in or get left out! We Love ya!

What does it mean to be a real Christian? It's time we take off our masks and be real!

https://cspodcast.s3.amazonaws.com/podcast/042907.mp3 Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:12:28 -0700 Christianity no 00:39:39 Cornerstone,Linn Winters,Chandler,Christianit