Podcasts about palmdale

Save thousands on any new car (Australia-only): https://autoexpert.com.au/contactGet a great deal on home solar (or add a quality battery to your existing setup): https://autoexpert.com.au/solarIN THIS VIDEOLast Friday morning, a truck operated by NJ Ashton Group inconveniently, and certainly unintentionally, sprayed 750 kilos of Satan's fingernails, also known as ‘flock', which is finely shredded steel fragments, all over a 30km stretch of the M1, which is the northern motorway out of Sydney. Flock has a variety of clever industro-fun uses - it goes into friction materials (like brake linings and clutches - things of that nature). It's a reinforcer for composites, and rubbers (not those rubbers, dude - your mind doesn't have to be in the fucking gutter 24/7 - nobody wants flock in those rubbers - maybe Satan - he'd want that. I'm talking about flock in general products made of rubber, and plastic. They even stick flock in anti-static flooring (for electronics factories, or pyro-type manufacturing). And (this is very sexy, to me) they use flock in powder metallurgy as a binder in sintered components. ‘Flock' is therefore miraculous. But not when you spray it all over 30km of freeway. That sucks. 300 vehicles had their tyres punctured, southbound, between Palmdale and Mount White. This main transport link to Sydney was closed for 10 hours.Nothing screams ‘no response plan' louder than that. And I would say that we in the electorate deserve more than this entirely fucked-up response.This incident, which was purely accidental and in no way malicious, highlights two serious, interconnected lapses by regulatory Muppets to whom we pay healthy six-figure salaries - mainly, it would seem, to use their arses as little more than an over-priced executive chair polishing system.Problem one: It's pretty easy, potentially, to disrupt the entire city. When you think about it. And problem two: Since there's clearly no plan to deal with even one isolated incident such as this, imagine the unfettered chaos potentially caused by a properly coordinated attack. That's pretty clear, given the ‘Keystone Cops' response painted across everyone's newsfeeds Friday night and Saturday morning.

What are the 4Qs? (1) Three favorite films. (2) An underrated film. (3) An overrated film. (4) A lesser-known film people should seek out. Lauren Moreno directed and co-wrote “Palmdale,” an official selection at the 2024 Sherman Oaks Film Festival that took home the Grand Jury Award for Best Featurette - Drama as well as Best Lead Performer - Featurette for Isabelle Marchard. I felt a deep and instant connection to Lauren and her powerful film and couldn't wait to dig deeper with her 4 Questions. You can learn more about Lauren and her work in Instagram at @laurenmorenofilms as well as get a glimpse of a future project at @bagboysfilm _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Discover Indie Film Links DIF Podcast Website - DIF Instagram - DIF BlueSky Discover Indie Film Foundation (nonprofit for the arts) Website Sherman Oaks Film Festival Film Invasion Los Angeles

Happy Monday, Everyone and thank you for tuning in. I know that sometimes I kind of turn into an instant-uncle with some of the filmmakers on the podcast.                                                                                                                                                                                I will come right out and confess Lauren Moreno joins this club.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I am absolutely crushed by the authenticity of “Palmdale,” a film that Lauren directed and co-wrote the was an official selection at the 2024 Sherman Oaks Film Festival.                                                             The film took home the Grand Jury Award for Best Featurette - Drama as well as Best Lead Performer - Featurette for Isabelle Marchard.                                                                                                                   And it took home a little piece of me, as this wonderful movie lives in my heart.                                                                                                                                                                                                          And, through the transitive property, this means that my new unofficial niece Lauren Moreno is in there, too. You can learn more about Lauren and her work in Instagram at @laurenmorenofilms as well as get a glimpse of a future project at @bagboysfilm _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Discover Indie Film Podcast Links DIF Podcast Website - DIF Instagram - DIF BlueSky Discover Indie Film Foundation (nonprofit for the arts) Links DIF Foundation - Sherman Oaks Film Festival - Film Invasion Los Angeles

Today's episode is a reair from 2021, however, the message is timely. Let us review that we might be assured that we are prepared to move forward…into Kingdom authority. Where to dive in: (0:00:10) - Kingdom Chronicles in Review (19 Minutes) This chapter of Kingdom Chronicles reflects on a re-aired episode titled "Kingdom in Review," highlighting the enduring sovereignty of Jesus and the importance of aligning ourselves with God's kingdom in a time of global uncertainty. I share insights on the necessity for believers to embody God's authority on earth, stressing that we are often the answer to the world's questions. We explore the significance of the upcoming Hebrew year 5782, marking the time since God gave His laws to Moses. Through prayer and reflection, I encourage a return to fidelity with God and a renewed focus on unity and love within the body of Christ. This is a call for a spiritual revival and reconciliation, urging us to embrace our roles as sons, citizens, and servants of God's kingdom. (0:19:16) - Living as a Kingdom Disciple (12 Minutes) This chapter explores the fundamental concept of representing the Kingdom of God in various spheres of life, whether it be in science, government, business, or ministry. We emphasize the importance of understanding God's sovereignty and how the Holy Spirit's conviction should guide our actions beyond cultural or democratic influences. The conversation highlights that God's principles do not change with shifting cultures and underscores the necessity of aligning our lives with the righteousness and holiness that God demands. We also discuss the role of kingdom authority, where believers are empowered to speak and see their declarations manifest, drawing parallels with biblical figures like Elijah and Moses. As representatives of God's kingdom, we are called to make challenging decisions, prioritizing divine truth over societal norms, and to embody the character and integrity of God in our daily lives. (0:31:35) - Seeking God's Guidance in Kingdom Discipleship (18 Minutes) This chapter addresses the spiritual practice of seeking guidance directly from God rather than solely relying on external sources such as books or social media for answers. Referencing scripture from Matthew, Mark, and Luke, I discuss Jesus' teachings on discipleship and the importance of prioritizing divine wisdom. I emphasize the need for believers to consult the Holy Spirit and seek God's kingdom first, rather than becoming dependent on the interpretations and experiences of others. The chapter underscores the idea that while other resources can provide valuable insights, the primary source of guidance should always be the relationship with God and His Holy Spirit. About the host:  Apostle Dr. Brett A Griffin founded Harvest 2100, Inc. in 2013 as a result of increased consultation with leaders in various realms of influence who were looking to grow and build in their respective capacities. With a national reach that began as a United States Veteran, and over 30 years of ministerial service, Dr. Griffin demonstrates the application of protocols interpreted through God's Kingdom purview. Whether a leader's influence is found in music, government, business, community or ministry, Dr. Griffin has found one constant upon which she helps other to build and has become the foundation of Harvest 2100: "YOUR INCREASE...BEGINS WITH YOU!" She resides in Palmdale, CA. Dr. Brett A Griffin reaches a global listening audience weekly through her podcast channel, entitled, 'Kingdom Chronicles'. Here, Dr. Griffin conveys the mind of God and heart of The Heavenly Father - the purpose for this Earth and man's residential existence.

This time we get to meet Jocelyn Sandstrom, my first podcast guest from Hawaii. Jocelyn was born and raised in Hawaii. Tt the urging of her mother, she took her first modeling job when she was sixteen. As she tells the story, she grew up quiet and pretty shy and she didn't have a great deal of confidence in herself. After high school, modeling became her full-time career. She says that the urging and support of her mother caused her to make some of the best decisions in her life. Modeling, she tells us, brought her out of herself. She traveled to 12 countries over a 20-year modeling career. She loved every minute of the experience.   In 2003 she began thinking that she wanted to help others deal with their confidence and career issues. By 2010 she decided that she was experiencing burnout as a model and changed to a coaching career that, in part, helped others to recognize burnout and deal with it. Jocelyn provides us with some good life pointers and lessons to help us change our mindset from the usual negative “I have to do this” to a more positive view “I get to do this”. I leave it to her to tell more.   Jocelyn does offer many insights I am sure you will appreciate. Over her 15-year coaching career she has become certified in several disciplines, and she uses them to teach her clients how to shift their careers to more positive and strong efforts going forward.       About the Guest:   Growing up in Hawaii, Jocelyn has lived and worked in 12 different countries. This experience has allowed her to realize that even though we may speak different languages or have different traditions, at our core, we are all the same. She has used this knowledge to help and support clients around the world in creating next-level success not just in their careers but in their personal lives as well.    Since 2010, she has been providing Quantum Energy Sessions and teaching Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Neurological Re-patterning, and the Millennium Method to clients globally. In 2022, she founded Wellness and Metaphysical, a community-driven platform that promotes a higher level of consciousness through expos and retreats.   Jocelyn's mindset and energy work have propelled her career, allowing her to work with leading global luxury brands like Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Fendi, Cartier, Tiffany & Co., Christian Louboutin, and Yves Saint Laurent, among others. She has been featured on the covers of Elle, Marie Claire, Esquire, Harper's Bazaar, and more. Alongside her husband, she has hosted two travel shows and appeared in various feature and short films. After creating a career beyond her wildest dreams through quantum manifestations, her passion is to now help others do the same, whether it's business, health, relationships, or any aspect of life.   Jocelyn specializes in helping clients release deep-rooted issues from their past that are holding them back. She supports clients in building not just success but also fulfillment at the same time because success without fulfillment is empty, leading to burnout and anxiety. She supports her clients to discover their authentic truth and share that with the world, magnetizing their energy to start attracting people and opportunities out of the blue, enabling them to fall in love with themselves and their life while creating more success than ever before!   Jocelyn is a certified:   Neuro-Linguistic Programing Advanced Practitioner + Teacher Neurological Re-patterning Practitioner + Teacher Ericksonian Hypnosis Practitioner + Teacher Millennium Method™ Practitioner + Teacher Yuen Method™ Practitioner Reiki Practitioner.   Ways to connect Jocelyn:   Instagram https://www.instagram.com/jocelynlukosandstrom/?hl=en Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jocelyn.lukosandstrom/ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelyn-luko-sandstrom-4789882a/  Website www.jocelynsandstrom.com   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 01:56 Thank you so much, and I do hope you come back again. It's such an honor to be on your podcast. Well, it's   Michael Hingson ** 02:02 been a while. It's only been 15 years since I've been there, and it is time to come back, but my wife passed away, and so it's kind of not nearly as fun to come alone, unless, unless I come and people keep me busy over there, but we'll figure it out.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 02:17 Yes, I'm so sorry about your wife, and if you want, I will show you around here.   Michael Hingson ** 02:24 Well, we'll have to make something happen. We'll just, we'll just do it. Yes, but I'm really glad that you're here. Um, Jocelyn is an interesting individual, and by any standard, she is a we're a neurological repatterning practitioner plus teacher. She has a lot of things. She does neuro linguistics. She is also a Reiki Master and practitioner, and just a number of things, and we're going to get to all of that, but I want to, again, welcome you and really glad that you're taking the time to be with us instead of being with clients, with all the things that you do.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 03:11 Thank you so much for your time. I love your podcast and everything, all the messages that you're bringing out onto the world.   Michael Hingson ** 03:17 Well, thank you. It has been a lot of fun to be able to do it and continue to do it, and we're having a lot of fun doing it, so I can't complain a whole lot about that. It's just a lot of fun. And I as I tell people, if I'm not learning at least as much as everybody else, then I'm not doing my job right. So I'm really glad that I get to learn so much from from people as well. Well, why don't we start, as I love to do, with learning about the early Jocelyn, growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 03:49 Well, I did grow up in Hawaii, and I, like every a lot of people, we went through a lot of growing pains. I had a lot that I did grow through, and it wasn't until I started my first contract overseas when I was 16 that life shifted for me, and I started to find my people and started to come into my own, get you know, transcending above the bullying and everything that happened in childhood. And then I lived overseas for about 20 years and moved home in 2016 to be with my family again.   Michael Hingson ** 04:29 So where did you live for those 20 years? I lived in   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 04:31 12 different countries around the world. Um, I absolutely for me, it was I just loved exploring different cultures. It wasn't like going on vacation, to me, is amazing, but going to a place, living there, working with the people, learning the culture, learning the different ways that they work in, you know, speaking like the languages I only you know, spoke a very little bit of each language, just like taxi language, right? Um. And then just immersing into the culture, just the food tastes different in every place as well. Like it could be the same thing, but it just tastes different. Life is so different. And for me, that was my passion, really, to just immerse into different cultures, different parts of the world, different parts of me as well. Because every time I went to another country, I became a different person. There was another side of me that got ignited that I didn't even know was there. And so I got to not only discover myself, but I got to discover the world.   Michael Hingson ** 05:30 What made you go to so many different countries? What started all that?   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 05:35 Well, I was modeling so I was able to do contracts in different countries. And so whenever I wanted to go to their country, I just contacted an agency there, and I got a contract and went and so basically, the world was my oyster. And I just said, Where do I desire to go next? And then Khan reached out. Instead of waiting for someone to come to me, I reached out to that, you know, to agencies over there and got a contract and went over. So I've never, once I started that. I've never been one to sit around and wait for things to kind of come to me. It's always been this is what I desire. So now let me go and create that to happen. And that's how I created my last career to be so successful. And there's so many things that I learned along the way that not only can you use that, but also to do it in a way that doesn't burn you out. And so that's my passion now, is to help people to build success and fulfillment, not just the success. Because I had burnt out pretty bad, and I in hindsight, if I had done it differently, I probably could have built it even bigger without the burnout. And so that's my passion now, and that's how I built this career, is through that fulfillment and success at the same time, so that it's so fulfilling, as well as creating next level results.   Michael Hingson ** 06:59 Did you go to college? Or did you go from high school into modeling?   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 07:03 I went straight in. What   Michael Hingson ** 07:06 started you with that? My   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 07:08 mom, of course, it's always your mom, right? Of course, because I was very shy, and like I said, I went through a lot growing up, through bullying and all of this. So for me, it was like the best blessing that's ever happened. For me, I was very scared, but I knew that I wanted to explore and try, and it brought me out of my shell. It brought me to my people. It was the first time that, you know, people like, wanted to hear what I had to say, really, like, they were fascinated. And I was like, what, you know, and again, again, what I realized, now after all this time, is I had a perception growing up here in Hawaii, so necessarily, I've been finding out that not people did not have that same perception that I had about myself. I realized I was almost the one that was not coming out of my shell fully, and therefore it was hard to connect, I think, and people have a different perception of me. So looking back on my childhood now, when I say bullying, yes, there was bullying and there was, you know, but overall, there were also things that I perceived in a way that wasn't necessarily true for other people, because I would run into them and they'd remember me, and they'd have remember a different version of me, and I'd be like, it's, you know? And so I realize now how much I actually also held my back, held myself back, and, yeah, well,   Michael Hingson ** 08:39 did that affect your modeling career, because I would think as a model, you'd have to be reasonably outgoing and be able to work in a variety of different kinds of situations.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 08:49 I think it was what helped me to be resilient growing up through the hardships of what I went through, you know, with relationships and everything. That's what got me to be resilient, to stick it out. Because not everybody does stick it out. Because there is a ton of rejection, there is a ton there is a ton of things that you're going through at a very young age. My first contract was when I was 16 in high school during the summer, and so to be able to handle obviously, you know, there's a lot of not so nice things in the industry as well, too. So to be able to handle that, I think that came from everything that I grew through as a child, as well as my mom's support, because she was the one, the one thing that was stable throughout my life, where I would always call her, because I was living in so many different countries, I think you know, she was my best friend, and so that, and living in all those different countries helping me to be so resilient, is what Korea helped me to create this business to be so success, successful as well,   Michael Hingson ** 09:55 what some of the countries that you stayed in went to, well, some. Of   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 10:00 my favorite I started in Tokyo, and then I went to Korea, Sydney, Milan, Hamburg, London. I did live in New York for a little while, Taiwan, China, you know, like, there's so many different places. Like, some of my favorites definitely were Tokyo, because that was and Hong Kong was where I spent most of my time at the end. And I, of course, loved Milan and Sydney as well as London as well too. And of course, New York is just Memphis.   Michael Hingson ** 10:33 I enjoy Tokyo. I've been to Japan twice, not for long periods. Well, the second time, actually, I guess the third time I've been there three times, and the last time was when we did work with the Japanese publisher of my first book, Thunder dog. And we were there for almost two weeks. It was a lot of fun, but mostly I spent time around Tokyo until thunder dog, and then we were all over Japan. But it was very enjoyable. What I really remember the first time I went to Japan. We were over there about four days, I tried to eat very healthy, um, although I had ice cream with every meal, because they insisted, and all that, when I came back, I had lost my pal. I can't believe it. Wow. I know that didn't happen the second and third time, but I didn't gain weight either, so it's okay, but I really enjoyed Japan. I've been to Korea. Enjoyed that as well. Not been to Australia. I'm still want to go. I've been to New Zealand, but not Australia. Yeah.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 11:36 Australia is an amazing place, the people, the food, just the lifestyle,   Michael Hingson ** 11:43 yeah, yeah. And it is, of course, so different because it's on the other side of the equator. So right now they're getting into their summer season.   Speaker 1 ** 11:52 Yes, yes, absolutely. So it's pretty   Michael Hingson ** 11:55 cool. Was your mama model? Is that what got you guys to get you into it or No, no, she just, she just thought it was good for you,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 12:04 huh? Yeah, exactly. And thank goodness she did, because, honestly, it was the thing that got me out of my shell. It like for me to go and live in Tokyo when I was 16 during the summer. It showed me that high school wasn't everything, because I was so consumed by, you know, school kids and the cool kids and not being cool and all of those things. And when I went over there, I realized, wow, there is a whole other world outside of this. And it completely changed my life. And so when I came back, I didn't relate to everybody in the same way. I wasn't so consumed with everything, because I knew what was waiting for me. I knew that there was so much more to explore and to experience. So it really was the thing that completely changed my life, and I will always be grateful for that on how it allowed me to grow and through the years, I grew through that. Like each contract I did, I grew, I stretched myself, each country that I went to, where I didn't know anybody except for the agency, and lived, you know, with new people, and had a map that they would give you, and you'd have to go and find your castings on your own, before we had Google Maps, using a paper map, and just, you know, walking down the street and looking for the places like it just stretched me in so many beautiful ways. And I wish everyone could go through that experience. Because when you put yourself into places where you stretch, you just you access the strength that's actually within you. It's just compounding your resilience and your power and your knowing within yourself, and that's what makes you unstoppable. When you know you can do all those things and you've done all those things, the next step is that much easier because you've already done it.   Michael Hingson ** 13:56 Yeah, um, there's so many ways of stretching and growing. I was just reading an email from someone I'm the vice president on the board of directors of the Colorado Center for the Blind, which is a training center that teaches newly blinded people or people who are losing their eyesight, teaching them blindness techniques and teaching them that blindness isn't the problem. It's really our attitudes about it. And one of the things, if you go to the center and take advantage of the full residential program, one of the last things that you have to do is you are dropped off somewhere within some sort of walking distance of the agency itself. But that could be a couple miles Well, it may not even be just a couple miles away. It may be that you're further, but you have to figure out where you are and get back to the center. And you can only ask one question of the public, so it's all about you learning to use your wit, your wits, and people do it all the time, right? Awesome, and it's so cool me, and so I really relate very much to what you're talking about, as far as how you learned to stretch and grow with all the modeling and being in all those foreign countries and having to learn to live there.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 15:13 Yeah, that's so powerful. That's so amazing. What you're what you've done, and your story is so inspiring and so powerful.   Michael Hingson ** 15:21 Well, I I never did go to that center, and so I never actually, directly was subjected to that. However, with all the traveling that I've done around the world, I've had to essentially do the same thing, so I know what you're talking about, and it's so exhilarating when you figure it out, right? Yes,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 15:41 it is, and and that's why we're here. We're here to experience all those things, because if not, it would just be so boring. And so one of the things that I always, you know, remind myself and my clients, is that, you know, we may be in a place that's crunchy and doesn't feel great, but we're growing through it. And when we do grow through it, the feeling of getting on the other side is what why we why we do it. And once we get to the other side, or let's say you're climbing a mountain, and you get to the top of the mountain, you don't want to just sit at the top of the mountain. You want to climb another mountain, because it's the journey. That's the thing that we enjoy. And so when we embrace the journey, not only do we get to where we desire to go, to feel that feeling of like accomplishment, but also we get to enjoy the journey instead of just trying to rush through it to get there.   Michael Hingson ** 16:38 I somewhere in my life, probably when I was fairly young, decided, although I didn't articulate it for a while, but decided that life is an adventure, and wherever we go, we can find very positive things. And I have never found a place that I hated, that I didn't like to go to. I've been all over this country and and I have eaten some some pretty unhealthy food in places, very deep fried kinds of things and so on. But I've also found ways to enjoy some of it, although I tried to eat as little of the bad food, if you will, that's high in cholesterol and so on. I've tried to eat as little of that as possible. But I've enjoyed everywhere I have been. I've been been to all 50 states, had a lot of fun in every place where I've been, and wouldn't trade any of those experiences for anything, much less traveling to a variety of other countries. Mm hmm, so it's a lot of fun to, you know, to do, but life is an adventure, and we should approach it that way. Mm   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 17:40 hmm, yeah, absolutely. And when we do approach it that way, we enjoy it so much more, because I used to always avoid making a mistake or things going wrong or get so frustrated that it wasn't wrong or that it wasn't going well. But now I I lean into those things, and it's those things that make life interesting. It's those things like the mistakes that I make, I grow more from those mistakes than from anything else. And through the hardships that I've been through, I've grown so much from those as well, too. And so when we lean into the journey and just know that there is no good, bad, right, wrong, it's just the experience of what it is. We live in a completely different way, and we can like I was telling my clients in one of the webinars I was running the other day that my husband and I had read the book celestian prophecy. And so he goes on a journey, and he doesn't plan anything. He just shows up and he listens to, you know, synchronicities, and he kind of goes with that. And so when we went to Jordan, we did the same thing. We're like, you know what, let's just go play. Let's go play and have no plan, and just arrive and discover what we're gonna do. And so we did that. And then we ended up, you know, meeting this one tour company, and ended up booking them, but it ended up turning out that they weren't the best, and we kind of got ripped off. But the driver that they hired was amazing, and he gave us like these special tours and things because he felt bad that we did get ripped off. And so the thing that looked like it was something bad actually was a blessing, and ended up turning out into this most incredible trip. And so when we make these so called wrong decisions, and we realize that it's not wrong, that it's leading us to something better, we don't have to get upset about it, like we weren't upset that that happened. We were just on the journey and the adventure of it, and that actually turned out to be one of our most incredible trips.   Michael Hingson ** 19:38 One of the things that I have learned and talked about on this podcast occasionally is that there's no such thing as failure their learning experiences. And I like what you just said, because it isn't that they're something that goes wrong. It happened the way it did. And the question is, what did we learn from it? And I'll bet that that driver. I would never have done those special things for you if you had treated him differently and treated him in a in a negative way.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 20:08 Mm, hmm, yeah, if we were grumpy and angry, he would have said, Okay, well, too bad for you guys. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 20:15 yeah, forget you guys. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. Well. You modeled for you said 20 years, right? Yes. And what made you decided that you wanted to give that up.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 20:29 So I actually started doing wellness in 2003 when my mom got sick, and that's when my whole world shifted. That's when I wanted to find a natural way to help her, to support her, and that's how I started doing neurological repatterning, neuro linguistic programming and Ericksonian hypnosis. Then I went into quantum physics based energy work, and was able to help her and the at the same time, I was working on my career and both her getting, you know, her recovering and getting stronger, and my career taking off, I thought, oh my gosh, like I want to help people do this. I don't want to just use it for myself. I want to help other people do this. So I actually started while I was still modeling, simultaneously teaching and doing sessions for clients, since 2010 and so I've been doing this since then, and now it's, I just want to do it full time. It's just, it's just so fulfilling to be able to support clients through shifts, to create things beyond their wildest dreams, to open up the ease and the flow, to remove the burnout to, you know, to know that anything is possible and that we create our reality, we get to create we, you know, like we're creating an abundance of things every single moment of every single day based on our thoughts. And so we can create an abundance of lack, or we can create an abundance of, you know, happiness and and it's really just not letting anything take our power. So one of the things that shifted in my life as well, too, was when I was able to not let anything ruin my day, not let anyone or anything ruin my day, not that things that weren't going my way ruin my day. I was just gonna say, Okay, well, this is going on. It's happening for me. So now what do I get to do with this? How do I get to transmute this? How do I turn it into something good, or turn it into my superpower? By practicing neutrality, practicing not reacting and creating more fallout that needs to happen. And so whenever things don't go my way. I don't get frustrated about it anymore. I know that it's an opportunity, opportunity for me to practice a new way of being or new way of thinking. And there was one day where everything was just going so wrong, like from the beginning, like big things too, and I didn't let it take my happiness away, and I didn't let myself get down by it. I was like, Well, what can I do instead? How can I transmute this? How can I like when I missed my yoga class, and I'm like, I'm just gonna go home and I'm gonna do it by myself. Nothing is gonna stop me. This is what I desire to do. And that was my, like, favorite day ever. I felt amazing. I got home after the day of all the things that didn't work out, like almost losing a $2,500 camera lens, and by the end of the day, just feeling so good about it. And my son was saying to me, Okay, I'm gonna go check the mailbox. And he went to go check the mailbox. And at the end of the day, after me not letting anything take my freedom. An electric bill came and we opened it up, but it wasn't a bill. It was a refund for $7,200 for some PV panels that we had purchased that we didn't know we were going to be getting a rebate for. And it just showed me that nothing can take my joy, and because of that, I'm not going to slow down the good things that are on their way to me, either. And so it just opens it up. And from that point on there I don't have bad days. I transmute them,   Michael Hingson ** 24:10 yeah? Which? Which is what we all can do, yeah. So how do you transmute them? Though? What? How do you really do that?   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 24:19 Well, the one thing that really helps me is realizing that everything is happening for me, everything like everything is happening for me, to help me to learn, to help me to grow, to help me to create my next level of success. And if I look at it that way, I'm not the victim. But if I look at it as the victim like it's happening to me, I have no power. I've given my power to the situation, but if I know that it's happening for me and that I'm unstoppable and I'm resilient and I'm always going to find a way, because I'm never going to give up. So for instance, with that camera lens, I ordered a camera lens that Best Buy was meant to ship me, and I called them because it was a. A week. And they said, Oh, it looks like you actually picked it up from the store. So no one shipping you anything. You got the product already. And I said, No, I didn't there. It was out of stock, and the person that I bought it from ordered it to be shipped to my house. And they said, well, there's nothing we can do on my end. On their end, I have to go to the shop, find the person who sold it to me and talked to them, and so the old me would have reacted, freaked out, created all this necessary Fallout, gone in angry, but now I was like, You know what? It's going to work out. Somehow it's going to work out. I don't know how it's going to work out, but the more calm and neutral I am, the more that I just let it flow, instead of react to this. Somehow it's just going to work out. And if it doesn't, it's just money. Like, it's not my life, it's not the end of the world, it's just money, and I can make more money. And so when I approached it that way, and I went in to talk to them, I wasn't guns blazing, I wasn't, you know, angry, I just came in and I was like, hey, you know, this is a situation. I was wondering if you could help me. And somehow, magically, they were just like, oh yeah, no problem. I can see it. There's an issue, and we'll send you a new one. And then it arrived in a couple days. And so a lot of times it's our reaction that causes the issues. But if you know, sorry, no, go ahead. I was just going to say, if we know that, it's going to work out somehow, because we're never going to give up, nothing is going to break us. Then somehow, magically, it always does.   Michael Hingson ** 26:25 Did they or you have to figure out exactly what really did happen?   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 26:31 Nope. And to me, it doesn't really matter, because as long as it works out, I'm just, I'm always taking the next step. I'm always, if something, you know, like I in the beginning, I would launch programs and no one would show up, and it wouldn't matter, I would just keep launching. Or, you know, I heard this one story that completely inspired me about Anthony Robbins, when he first started doing his programs, and he sold his first program out, he rented the the call for it, and not one person bought but it didn't stop him. He said to his four friends, Hey, can I pay you with pizza and soda so that you could sit here for four days so I could teach you my program? Because he knew where he was going, nothing was going to stop him. And so I do the same thing, like I sold a master class here in Hawaii, and most of my networks online. And so one person had showed up, signed up, and I was like, Okay, so maybe do I cancel this? But I just really felt like there was something that was going to happen. If I just teach it, it's going to stretch me, it's going to do something. I just kept showing up and selling it every single day, trying different ways of selling it, not out of scarcity, but out of okay, well, this is the universe or something giving me an opportunity to play, to practice, selling, to have fun with it. And so I did. And you know, the day of, there was still only two people that were going to be there, and I thought, maybe I should cancel it, because I'm going to look like a failure. But then I thought, I don't care what I don't care what people think. If I'm a failure or not, the only part of me that will be bruised is my ego, but I know that I'm so much more than that, and if Anthony Robbins can do that, I can do that. So I'm going to show up and I'm going to teach these people just as powerfully as if there was 100 people there. And so I showed up, and at first nobody was there, and I didn't care, because I didn't care anymore. I knew where I was going to build, but there is traffic and stuff, and then finally, by the end of it, nine people showed up out of the blue, and it was the one of the most amazing master classes that I taught, because I taught it in this new way of thinking, where I had I had overcome my fears of my ego, of failure and people what people Were going to think, because I knew where I was going. I was inspired by Anthony Robbins doing that. And if he can do that and build that, I can do that, you know what I mean. So   Michael Hingson ** 28:50 I do, yeah, I I'm a nosy person, and I would have wanted to try to find out what happened with the with the lens. And the reason I'd want to find out is not to fix blame or anything, but because I figured that's a learning experience too. And I have, I've had situations where it worked out whatever it was, but then I went back and asked, now, how come this happened? And when I and the other people involved figured it out, we all learned from it. But again, it's all about, as you said, not going in with guns blazing. It's not a fixing blame. Yeah, it's really all about understanding, and I think that's the most important thing. So this is all about the fact that you adopted a mindset and you decided that you're going to live that mindset, which makes a lot of sense. Mm, hmm,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 29:50 yeah, it to me. It's all mindset, because nothing is real until you create a story around it, which is why eyewitness, eyewitnesses are. Not reliable sources, because you could have the same situation happen, and people will see different thing Bay things based on the reality that they're looking for. And you know, I've even talking to my brother about childhood memories that are completely different, and I'm like, no so and so didn't say it. This person said it, and this is what happened, and in and he fully has a real, real, real memory of it happening in a completely different way. And so it's just really something happens, and we put a meaning and we put a story on it. And so whatever meaning and story you put on it determines the outcome. And so only thing we can control is the meaning and story that we put on it. So do we want to put a meaning and story that empowers us, or do we want to put a meaning and story that makes us not feel so good? And that's also the other thing that shifted in my life.   Michael Hingson ** 30:51 Yeah, it's all about now, ultimately, you're your own best teacher, and you can empower yourself. Yes. Yes, yes, absolutely. So I am not familiar with but would love to learn what is Ericksonian hypnosis.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 31:07 It's just a type of hypnosis, a different style of how you bring somebody down into the the hypnotic state screen, and then you, then you do programming while they're down in the hypnotic but, yeah, it's just a there's, there's multiple different types of hypnosis, and so that's just one of the types. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 31:31 I just never heard of of that particular one. I'm familiar with hypnosis and so on, but I wasn't familiar with Eric Sony, and didn't know whether there was something uniquely interesting about that.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 31:42 No, I think it's just the the style got it well,   Michael Hingson ** 31:47 you know, one of the things that we deal with people in general, in general, is we put a lot of our own limitations on ourselves, especially where we don't need to do that. How do we transcend or overcome limitations. One   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 32:02 of the way to do that is to recognize how powerful we are and how powerful our minds are. So a lot of people say that they can't trust, but they trust that they can't trust. They say that they're not confident, but they're confident that they're not confident, a that they don't create their own reality, and so that belief creates the reality that they don't create that reality, right? And so it's just about looking at the beliefs and saying, Do I want to hold on to this story? So a lot of people will come and say, This always happens to me, and I'll ask them, and does it always happen? And they say, No, it doesn't always happen, but this happened, this happened. This happened, this happened. And we'll say, okay, great. You're really good at validating that story. Do you want to keep validating that story, or do you want to start validating the times that it didn't happen? And it goes back to that red car theory, like, if you're driving on the road, how many red cars do you notice that day, versus if you were driving on the road looking for the red cars? How many red cars would you actually notice? And so what are you looking for? Because we're bombarded with billions of bits of information every single second, but we can only take like plus or minus seven every single second based on what we're looking for. So if we're looking for a red car, in reality, we're going to find that red car. If we're looking for a blue car, we're going to find that blue car. So what story are you telling yourself that's no longer serving you, and what story would you desire to tell yourself instead? And I'll give you an example for me, I used to have this belief that I could make a lot of money, but I couldn't hold on to it, because every time I would make the big amount of money, I'd get hit with a bill, or a pipe would burst, or something would happen. And so I kept telling that story, and I recognized that doesn't always happen. Big money's come in and it didn't go out immediately, but I didn't think about those times because I was validating the other story. So once I recognized that, I said, Okay, I'm not going to validate that other story anymore. I'm going to validate the times when I make big money and more money comes in, so that I can then have this belief that I'm building generational wealth. And that's when my finances changed and I started building generational wealth, right? It it's what we're looking for that we are then going to compound over and over and over again.   Michael Hingson ** 34:28 Yeah, again, it's back to mindset. Yes,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 34:32 it's always back to mindset.   Michael Hingson ** 34:36 That's fair. So you talked about, among other things, dealing with quantum physics and so on. Tell me about quantum leaps. So   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 34:43 quantum leaps to me a book. If you've never read this book, it's amazing. It's it's a really thin book called u squared, and the beginning of the book starts out with this fly that's beating its head against the window pane over and over and over again, trying to get out. So. When all it had to do was stop, fly back, look for the door, and fly out of the door. And so that's basically what I was doing. I was like beating my head, trying to force, trying to make these things work, pushing myself to do things that all the shoulds and the have tos, instead of taking a step back, listening to my own knowing my gut, my intuition, my truth, and then that truth being the door that's going to guide me to, you know, where I'm going. The other piece of that is I looked back on my last career, and I saw it from a whole other perspective. I thought it was from all of that pushing, forcing, all of those things, but in hindsight, when I look at it, it was the moments that I was in alignment, trusting my gut, following my intuition, doing the thing that then all of a sudden, out of the blue, this person dropped into my life, or this opportunity dropped into my life, which then quantum leads me into whole new reality. So the first time I ever wanted to teach bank like, corporate workshops, any type of corporate workshops. I knew that I wanted to teach corporate workshops, and so I started, you know, to develop a plan to figure out, like, what kind of corporations would I like to work with to help them to take everything to the next level, to help people to build success and fulfillment at the same time. And I started to think about it, and started to write a few things, and then all of a sudden, out of the blue, I met this CEO, and was starting to talk to him, and he said, Yeah, that would be awesome. Send me a proposal. So I wrote a proposal, and then they loved it, and I did my first corporate workshop. Now to me, that's a quantum leap. It was me being in alignment, knowing where I wanted to go, reprogramming my fears and my doubts. Because at first I'm like, why would a corporation take me seriously? Are they going to think that this stuff is too crazy, too out there? So I had to reprogram myself from those beliefs so that I could actually become the person that could teach the program. And once I reprogrammed all of that, then that person showed up. And because they showed up, I quantum leaped into that reality. Because otherwise I would have had to finish writing the proposal call all the corporate companies that I would want to work with, try and find the person that I wanted to speak with. You know, pitch my proposal to, who knows how many people to then hopefully get my first one. But for me, it was getting in alignment, reprogramming all the beliefs that I wasn't good enough for, then that person to drop in, and then all of a sudden, just start doing workshops. And that's basically how my career, my last career, and this career built. If you look back on your life, it's those moments that things happened, that dropped in, that ended up taking you into a different reality, like those chance encounters, or those chance things that would have happened, right? So it's how do we get in such alignment and reprogram the beliefs that are getting in the way so we could have more of those out of the blue opportunities dropping in faster.   Michael Hingson ** 38:01 It goes back to that same issue of looking for the red car. If you're looking for the red car, yes, you will see it. If you're looking to be able to do the corporate workshops, and you think about what you need to do to make it happen, recognizing that you're good enough, it will happen.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 38:20 Yes, exactly. But most of us never think that. Like, my whole life, I never thought I was good enough, you know. So it was always so much proving pleasing. You know, there's the imposter syndrome of somebody that wants to write a book, but then they're saying, Well, you know, who am I to write a book? But all the people that wrote a book never wrote a book until they wrote their first book, yeah, and so it's just just like letting go of the pressure and the expectation and just, I desire to write a book, so I'm going to write a book and I'm going to put it out in there in the world like everybody else did, every single author like you and your book, you wrote the book. That's the only difference from the people that wrote the book and didn't write the book is that you wrote the book, and you put your passion into it, and then it became, you know, such a massive life changing thing for you and so many people that read that book to hear your story well.   Michael Hingson ** 39:12 And now there are three, which is, which is fun, and you know what? Live like a guide dog. It it really goes along very well with the kinds of things you're talking about, because one of the things that we we advise and try to teach and live like a guide dog, is all about doing self analysis, looking at your your day, every day, at the end of the day, what, what worked, what didn't work, even the stuff that worked, what way might we have done to make it better? And the stuff that didn't work again, not a failure, but rather, what happened, and how do we learn from it so that won't happen again? And the reality is that at the end of the day, when we're falling asleep, we're. We have the time to do that if we really do introspection and and choose to do it. But again, it's a choice, and it's adopting the mindset that says we can do that, and it will help to increase, if you will, the mind muscle. And ultimately, the more of it we do, the less we'll fear about life. Mm,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 40:22 hmm, yes, yes. Because the fear comes from us thinking that we're not going to be able to get through it, that it's going to be so painful, that we're not going to be able to handle it, we're going to be so afraid of the disappointment. And so we don't take the leaps and we get and we just live in fear. But when we recognize our power through knowing that we get to harvest the learnings and that we're going to transmute it. We're going to get through it. We're going to turn it into our superpower. We're going to get stronger all the things we've done in the past, we've already we've gotten through so of course, we're going to get through the next thing. So when you know that you have that power to, like you said, go through the day and say what worked and what doesn't work, and how to make it better the next time, you don't have as much fear of the unknown, because you know you're going to get through it just like you did every other time. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 41:12 and you have to make the decision that it'll work,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 41:20 and then you have to make the decision to not beat yourself up,   Michael Hingson ** 41:22 because then you have the decision to not beat yourself up, right? Yeah, because pain   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 41:27 is inevitable, but suffering is something we create by the story we tell ourselves over and over and over again about the pain. And so if we know that, we're not going to beat ourselves up and create it to be suffering, we're not going to be as scared to take that next leap, because we know we'll get through the pain, and we're not going to turn it into suffering, right?   Michael Hingson ** 41:48 And we know that the pain is there to send us a signal, and we need to learn from that signal. Yes, so much. Yes,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 41:59 I love that.   Michael Hingson ** 42:02 So tell me, what is the difference between creating and achieving? Because I think that there, there really is a difference, and we're talking about both of those here in various ways.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 42:14 Yes. So creating is this playfulness. It's like this is what I desire to create. I know where I want to go. I know this goal that I want to do, and I'm going to create on this journey. I'm going to climb this mountain, and I'm going to take this step every day, and I'm going to enjoy the process of it and look at the flowers, and, you know, maybe hang by the lake for a day and then continue to go up there. But achieving is just achieving is proving pleasing. Achieving, right? It's like, I gotta get to the top of this mountain to prove that I've done this to achieve this thing. And so you rush through the journey. And that's where burnout comes from. So I don't think burnout comes from doing burnout comes from who you are when you're doing it, if you're doing the things, like when I'm doing the things out of creation, and because I love doing it, and because I desire to help people and support people, and bring this into reality, I'm having so much fun doing it, but if I'm doing it to achieve these results, if I'm doing it, because if I don't achieve these results, there's something wrong with me, or I'm a failure, or I'm not good enough, my business isn't good enough, And I'm being judged, and I care about other people's judgments, I will be burnt out, because I'm going to push and I, you know, there's so much emotion and exhaustion around the achieving, and then you're constantly just chasing that carrot, and the carrot always moves, because every time you achieve it, you want to climb the next mountain. And so you don't ever get that fulfillment, because then you're just going to go on to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing is what I did in my last career. I just kept chasing. Kept saying, I'm going to reach this goal, and I reached that goal, and I'm like, Oh no, I don't have this one. There was, there was no fulfillment on the inside, and it was exhausting.   Michael Hingson ** 43:56 Well, you know, I hear often that people who really like what they do have discovered that it's not a job because they just enjoy doing it so much and and that's ultimately what you're really saying, is it's not a job, and I agree with that. It's we need to decide that we like what we do, and if we truly don't like it, then we should be doing it, or we should look at why we don't like it and deal with that, because it is worth doing. Yes,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 44:29 that is a great example, because when I was building this business, I did a lot of freelance work, and in the beginning I did I did the freelance work so I would have predictable money so that I could build this business the way that I desired to build it, so I wouldn't compromise myself. I wouldn't do it because I just need clients to pay the bills and all of these things. It was my passion project, and so I did the freelance work so I had predictable money to be able to pay my bills. And then this was pure creation of what i. Desired to bring to the world, and how I desired to help my clients. And at first, when I was doing these freelance jobs, I'd be so frustrated while I was there, because I'd be like, Oh, I'm here making this money. And I'm so frustrated because I could be working on my business right now, and I could be making the business grow, but I need this money, right? And my mindset turned it into, every time I did that work, you would just drain me. I'd be I'd leave so exhausted, and then I would go home and not have time to work on my other business because I didn't have energy. Until I recognized this is my choice. How lucky am I that I have this freelance job that I get to do that's bringing in this predictable money so that I get to build my dream business. How grateful I am for this freelance work, that I have this opportunity to work these amount of hours and get paid so well, so that I could build my dream business. So I showed up to those jobs in a different energy. I showed up with pure gratitude that I have that that I get to show up to this job and I'm and to do my best job, because they're giving me this opportunity to build this business. And when I did that, not only did I have more energy, that job started to become really easy, like so before, there was always fires to put out, and there was always drama and everything. But after, I shifted this mindset to gratitude. And I started to just say, How can I serve? How can I be here and be my best self, because I'm grateful for this job. Then all of a sudden I would come on shift, and everything would just work. And like, the dramas would go away, the fires would go away, things would be easy. And then some of the other people would say, I want to be on Jocelyn shift, because whenever she shows up, it's like easy, but that was from gratitude. That was from gratitude, from showing up, you know, wanting to serve. And it shifted my reality. And then I had all this energy, because I felt so good. And sometimes we'd finish early. A lot of times we'd finish early, or the job would be so easy that when I came home, I had energy to work on my business. And then that's how I shifted my business. So it's really the it's not what we do, it's who we are when we're doing it. What are we feeling on the inside that we're then projecting out, that people are then responding to   Michael Hingson ** 47:14 and and the reality is, some of the fires may have still been there, but they're not fires anymore,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 47:21 yes, yes, exactly, exactly, because I perceive them in a different way,   Michael Hingson ** 47:27 right? Exactly, which is the whole point?   47:30 Yes, yes, I love that. So   Michael Hingson ** 47:33 how do we get people to recognize when they're experiencing burnout, much less. How do we get them to change their mindset, to eliminate the burnout process?   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 47:49 It just comes from their choice. It comes from their choice to to decide how they desire to see it. So, I mean, a lot of it, too comes from reprogramming. So, I mean, that's what I do in my programs, right? Is that if there are with burnout, we just discover where is it coming from? Like, is it coming from the pushing, the pleasing, achieving, the not being good enough, the worried what people are going to think, the failure, like all the stuff, the hoping that it's going to work out, afraid that it's not going to work out, because that's all the stuff that we leak our energy to. Once we discover what that is and we reprogram it so you don't have that you can just do it as a task. You show up and you do a task. One of my NLP teachers told me something that was so powerful, which was he said that the best, best basketball player in the world also has the highest amount of missed shots in the world, and that's why he's the best basketball player, because he just takes the shot. He doesn't beat himself up every single time he takes the shot. He's just taking a shot and a shot and a shot and a shot and a shot. He's playing to win. He's not playing not to lose. And so there's a difference in that energy. And so once you discover what that is, you get to then shift your mindset. So we it's very it's, it's quite easy to kind of find where the triggers are coming from. It's like, where are you getting pissed off? Where are you getting frustrated? Right? Like, those are the triggers. Then it's about, how do we then remove the triggers with whatever tool that you have, with mindset, with reprogramming, with hypnosis, with quantum physics, like whatever it's going to be, podcasts, listening to these things to come up with a new story, and then the resilience to create that new story to be your new story. So every time it doesn't go the way that you had planned, not getting caught up in saying, Oh, see it happened again, saying, okay, oh well, I'm not fully in that new programming yet, and so it's still showing up a little bit. But how do I harvest the learnings? And then how do I pivot? And then how do I do something different? And you just keep doing that until your reality eventually shifts. This   Michael Hingson ** 49:56 is so freaky. The other day, it was like yesterday, or. Monday or Sunday. I can't remember which day, but I was thinking about basketball players and some of the really famous, good basketball players, and thinking, why are they such horrible free throw shooters? And why are they in a in a sense, why is there a percentage what it is, and I came to the same conclusion that you talked about, but it's just kind of funny that the discussion in my brain was there and now, here it is again. But it's true. It's all about being willing to take the shot and   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 50:34 just taking the shot and not putting the meaning on it. It's when we put the meaning on it that it exhausts us. If you think about taking a shot, it's fine, but the minute you think about taking the shot, but hoping you're going to make it or not going to make it, because what are people going to think and what is that going to mean about you, and all that other stuff, all of a sudden it becomes a big ball of energy that you're leaking instead of I'm just taking the shot, because I know I'm going to get in, I'm going to get one in. So the more shots I take, you know, like Disney, he got rejected 33 times before the 34th time he got the loan. But if he just every single time, like, you know, gave up, we would not have what we have. But he just kept going in and doing it. And if you know that on the 34th time you're going to get accepted. How fast would you keep going back to banks and saying, Hey, until you get the loan right?   Michael Hingson ** 51:27 Well, and the issue with the shots, every time you take a shot and miss, if you're taking the shot, to continue to take the shot, as opposed to this one has to be the one to go in. You're also, I think, subconsciously, studying, well, why didn't that shot go in? What do I learn? Because this shot didn't go in, or the next one goes in, why did that one go in? What do I do to replicate that and become more effective?   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 52:00 Yeah. How do I harvest the learnings and pivot and do it better next time? Yeah? And if you just focus on the solution versus the problem, you'll get there, right? Yeah, okay, well, and the more that you get it in, you know what that feels like. So you get to replicate that again next time, right? And the more that you don't, then you find, like Edison said, he found 1000 he didn't fail. He found 1000 different ways how not to   Michael Hingson ** 52:28 do something right.   52:30 Exactly.   Michael Hingson ** 52:33 You know it is, it is so true, and it's all about that's why I continue to say there's no such thing as failure. The other thing I used to say about myself because I like to listen to my speeches. I record them and listen to them, and I do it because I want to learn what what worked, what didn't work. How can I do this better? And I always used to say, I'm my own worst critic. But I always thought that was a negative sort of thing, and literally only within about the last 14 or 15 months have I started to say, in reality, I'm my own best teacher. It's a much more positive and open way of doing it, and it makes listening all that much more fun and exciting. By the way,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 53:14 I love that, and that's the creating versus achieving, right? Like, that's the different energy. Tweak that when you're doing it now you enjoy it versus before you were beating yourself up, right,   Michael Hingson ** 53:26 right? Very much. So yeah, and that's, of course, the issue. So you, you've you continue to celebrate the fact that you were a model, and now you've gone on to a different life, and you're continuing to create and enhance that life. How do you how do you deal with both of those lives? You You really have adopted this celebration right across the board? I think,   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 53:57 yeah, I don't see it as different parts of, I mean, I just see them all as different, like, it's just a different   Michael Hingson ** 54:04 chapter. It's progressing, right? Yeah, and that's what I thought after   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 54:07 was each chapter was exactly what it was, and it was so amazing, and I and, and the next chapter gets to be more amazing, and the next chapter gets to be more amazing, and because it's an evolution over your entire lifetime. And so you just keep evolving. You know, there's a post out there about, I can't remember the ages, but like all these people that open businesses in their 40s, their 50s, their 60s, Walmart and, you know, Kentucky Fried Chicken, and all these different companies that didn't actually like they didn't create it. They tried. They were creating things, but it didn't hit until later in the years. And most people think, Oh, we get to this age, we retire. We're done. But that's not true. We get to keep creating our entire life. We get to keep evolving our entire life. We get to keep climbing more mountains. I've climbed that mountain that was awesome. Now. Me climb this mountain, not because I have to, not because I need to prove myself, but because I get to, right. If you can shift your words from need, have, should to I get to that is the difference between creating and achieving. It's like I get to do this, like I get to show up. I used to when I was starting this new business. I used to not like social media at all, and I just wish that I could just have clients and coach and mentor, because that's all I love to do. I didn't like to, you know, do the marketing and do the social media and do all the rest of the stuff. I was just like, I wish I could just receive clients and coach and mentor, because that's what I love, and that's my passion. And then I realized I can't do that. I can go work for a corporate company, and I can do that, but I don't have time freedom to be with my child. I don't have I'm Max capped out about how much I can earn or create because I'm working for someone else, or I can go off on my own. And I get to get good at marketing. I get to get good at social media. I get to get good at all the other things, as well as getting good at getting better at coaching and mentoring, so that I can be my own boss, that so that I can be with my child and travel and take him and work from my computer around the world, so that I can do speaking engagements around the world, and that I can build this business as big as I desire, the way that I desire. So everything then became a get to so then when I showed up for social media, I was excited for it, versus like, Oh, this is so frustrating. I wish this wasn't part of my job. So you, once you shift the get oh, everything opens up, and then everything starts working as well, because your energy opens up and we get to learn, yes, exactly, we get to learn and now, now in a lot of different things, thanks to that,   Michael Hingson ** 56:51 there you are, right, exactly, which makes a whole lot of sense. Changing your belief really changes your life, changing your mindset and looking for that open way to allow you to deal with all the things that come along, can they get to, as opposed to have to way certainly just enhances your whole outlook.   Jocelyn Sandstrom ** 57:16 Yes, absolutely, yeah. And it can change overnight. If you can just look at everything in your life that you're grateful for, that you a younger version of you dreamed about, that you now have in your life, even your phone, your computer like you wanted that now you have it, but you take it for granted until you lose it, and then you don't appreciate it till you get it back. And you're like, Oh, I love it so much, right? Like, if we just shift from looking from everything that's wrong with our life to everything that's incredible, we get to be full of gratitude while we're creating our next level that frequency, gratitude is this most powerful frequency. It opens synchronicity. It helps you to become magnetized, so that people are then magnetized to you. If you think about going into a shop and there's like, this grumpy person who's complaining all the time, versus this, like charismatic, happy, loving life, loving life, salesperson, which one are you going to be attracted to working with, you're going to be attracted to working with the one that looks for the positive outcome, that doesn't see limitations, that sees ways to transcend them. You know, that's not complaining about all the things that are going wrong, but showing you what could go right instead. And so then your business opens up as well. Because you're magnetized, you start meeting people that want to come and talk to you, you know, like you could be in a restaurant, and you're just drawn to looking at someone that walks into the room and you don't know why, you don't know who they are, what they do, you just there something about their energy draws you to them, and it's that energy that becomes their calling card. And so when you are in this gratitude and this loving of life and not seeing limitations. You just see opportunities to grow. You become magnetized. People want to be around that. People are inspired by that. So now you start attracting opportunities into your life, instead of, you know, trying to force and push and chase them. And it goes back to the saying that I absolutely love, which is, instead of chasing butterflies, build your own garden, so the butterflies come to you. Yeah, so, and it's also like that other saying that the grass is always greener on the other side, until you start watering your own grass. Like those two sayings completely changed my life. Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 59:38 Well, you know, I, when I was growing up, I lived about 55 miles west of here in a town called Palmdale, and I now live in Victorville. But when I was growing up, I described Victorville as compared to Palmdale that only had like about 2700 people. I described Victorville as not even a speck on a race. Our scope compared to Palmdale. I never imagined myself once I moved away, moving back to Victorville or to this whole area, but my wife became ill with double pneumonia in 2014 she recovered from that. Family started saying, you really ought to move down c

True facts about Joe Pantoliano:He fought and defeated the last living dragon of the moorlands, but showed mercy at the last minute and spared its life. They're now good friends and have a time share in Palmdale.He once jumped back in horror and screamed “It's the ‘haint of Loch Gullmar!” at a passing vehicle.He had hair in the ‘80s, as evidenced in 1988's Midnight Run.He was cursed with invisibility in the seventeenth century by an ancient witch. What you see on screen is not Pantoliano but an ingenious moving matte painting that's actually part of the background..If you like these facts and want to hear more of them, try listening to Adam and Aidan talk about Midnight Run. Listen below or find us where the podcasts roam.

Send me a text and please visit www.livefrommydrumroom.com I recently had the pleasure of being a guest on my friend Malcolm Moore's excellent podcast, "Creativity Is The Cure." During the interview we covered many topics related to my life and creativity, including working in the Music Industry at Zildjian, Drum Workshop, Simmons Electronic Drums and EU Wurlitzer, friends such as Charlie Watts, Vic Firth and Steve Gadd, Mission From Gadd, my award-winning podcast, "Live From My Drum Room" and much more. I hope you enjoy it. Please subscribe!  *Special audio clip at the end of my band, Grand Theft Audio recorded live. Recorded April 2025 on the phone between Cohasset, MA and Palmdale, CA.Listen on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Buzzsprout, iHeart Radio, Spotify and YouTube! And be sure to subscribe to Malcolm's podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/creativity-is-the-cure/id1758452951https://livefrommydrumroom.comwww.youtube.com/c/JohnDeChristopherLiveFromMyDrumRoom

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Our guest this time, Kane Brolin, will quickly and gladly tell you that as a blind person born in Iowa in 1965 he was mightily blessed to be born in that state as it had the best programs for blind people in the nation. Kane was born prematurely and, because of being given too much oxygen he became blind due to a condition known as retinopathy O. Prematurity. In fact I am blind due to the same circumstance. As it turns out, Kane and I share a great many life experiences especially because of the attitudes of our parents who all thought we could do whatever we put our minds to doing. Kane attended public school and then went to Iowa State University. He wanted to be a DJ and had a bit of an opportunity to live his dream. However, jobs were scarce and eventually he decided to go back to school at Northwestern University in Illinois. He formed his own financial and investment company which has been in business since 2002. He is a certified financial planner and has earned the Chartered Special Needs Consultant® designation.   We talk quite a bit about financial matters and he gives some sage advice about what people may realize are good investment ideas. He talks about investing in the stock market and urges investing for the long term. I leave it to him to discuss this in more depth.   Kane is quite committed to “pay it forward” insofar as dealing with blind people is concerned. He is currently the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Indiana. He also serves as a member of the Board of Directors for Penny Forward, Inc., a not-for-profit founded and run by blind people which strives to build a diverse and aspirationally-focused community of blind people who help one another achieve financial fitness, gainful employment, and overall fulfilment in life.   I find Kane quite inspirational and I hope you will do so as well. He has much to offer and he provided many good life lessons not only about financial matters, but also about blindness and blind people.       About the Guest:   Born in 1965, Kane Brolin spent his formative years in the state of Iowa and later went on to earn a Master's degree from the JL Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, which is near Chicago.  Since the year 2002, he has owned and operated a financial planning and investment management business based in Mishawaka, Indiana, located not far from The University of Notre Dame.  Over the years, he has become a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ Professional and has earned the Chartered Special Needs Consultant® designation.  When doing business with his clients, securities and Advisory Services are offered through Commonwealth Financial Network, a Registered Investment Advisor which is a Member of FINRA and SIPC,.   Having been totally blind for all his life, Kane feels indebted to many people who selflessly gave of their time, talent, and resources to help him acquire the education, skills, and confidence that enable him to lead a busy and productive life in service to others.  Many of those who made the biggest impact when Kane was growing up, also happened to be members of the National Federation of the Blind.  So after getting established on his current career path, he increasingly felt the impulse to give back to the organized blind movement which had served his needs from an early age.   Kane co-founded the Michiana Chapter in the National Federation of the Blind in 2012 and subsequently was elected to serve a two-year term as president of the Indiana State Affiliate of the NFB in October, 2022.  He is thankful for the early introduction of Braille, as well as for the consistent drumbeat from parents, peers, and professors which set and reinforced continuously high expectations.     In addition to his work with the NFB, Kane serves as a member of the Board of Directors for Penny Forward, Inc., a not-for-profit founded and run by blind people which strives to build a diverse and aspirationally-focused community of blind people who help one another achieve financial fitness, gainful employment, and overall fulfilment in life.   Kane lives in Mishawaka with Danika, his wife of 27 years, and their four children.  Kane and Danika were active foster parents for 11 years.  The Brolin family have been committed to numerous civic organizations; they and their family are active in their place of worship.  Giving back to the world is a continuously high priority.  They endeavor to teach their children by example, and they impart to them the wisdom of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.: “You can all be great, because you can all serve.”   Ways to connect with Rob:   BrolinWealth.com LinkedIn public profile nfb-in.org pennyforward.com   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi, everyone. I am your host, Michael Hingson, or you can call me Mike. It's okay. And this is unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity in the unexpected. Meet today. We're going to do a little bit of all. We're inclusive because my guest Kane Brolin, or if you're from Sweden, it's Brolin, and it's pronounced Brolin, not Brolin, but Kane bralin, or broline, is in Indiana, and Kane also happens to be blind, and has been blind his entire life. We'll get into that. He is very much involved in investing and dealing with money matters that I'm interested to get a chance to really chat about it's always fun to talk to people about how they're helping people with finances and money and getting insights. And I'm sure that he has some to to offer. So we'll get to that. Kane also happens to be the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Indiana, and so that keeps him busy, so he deals with money, and he's a politician to boot. So what else can you ask for? I pick on Kane by doing that, but nevertheless, Kane, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank   Kane Brolin ** 02:34 you. And there are there are times when the politics and the money issues can be a dream. There are other times it can be an absolute nightmare, either one, either one or both and and the thing that ties those together in common ground is that I walk in in the morning, and sometimes they have no idea what I'm about to walk into. So it does make for an adventure. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:57 the Fed has lowered interest rates. What do you think about that?   Kane Brolin ** 03:01 Well, there is some ramification for what happens in the consumer marketplace. The main thing that I've been hearing today is that even with those lowering of short term interest rates, you're seeing some long term interest rates go down the mortgage rates, especially, and those two are not necessarily always related. You don't always see the long term interest rates that the market determines through supply and demand. They don't always go in sync with the short term baseline rate that the Federal Reserve banking system sets, but in this particular case, they are, and what I've been reading this morning is that that may be at least good news in the short run for consumers, because they'll be paying Lower interest for new mortgages and also perhaps lower credit card rates or credit card payments. Of course, the downside is that if one invests and is lending money instead of borrowing it, that means sometimes lower rates of income that you can get from things like a certificate of deposit or an annuity. So there's always two sides of the same coin, and then it depends on which side you happen to be looking at. At the moment, right now, the market seems to like this convergence of interest rate activities, and the stock market has generally been up today. So by the time people hear this, that won't matter because it's a whole different day, but, but right now, the early returns coming in are pretty good for the the common human being out there trying to just manage their money.   Michael Hingson ** 04:54 Well, that's not really surprising, in a sense, because rates have been high for a while. Yeah, and things have been tough. So it's not surprising that people have made, and I would put it this way, to a degree, the marketing decision to respond favorably to the rates going down, and I know there's been a lot of pressure for the thread to lower its rate, and so they did. And I think that a lot of different entities kind of had to respond in a reasonably positive way, because they kept saying that it's time that the rates go down. So they had to respond. So we'll see how it it all goes. I   Kane Brolin ** 05:33 think, you know, and there's an issue I think that's salient to people with disabilities, blind people, included, if it's less expensive for the consumer to borrow money, it should follow that in the coming weeks, it should be less expensive for businesses to borrow money if they need some, and they may be more inclined to open up more jobs to people or to not shrink the jobs or The hiring that they have done by laying people off so and that's what I was just about. No one is a recession, and so it may mean that there are openings, there's room in the job market for more of us, because the thing I'm most passionate about in this whole game of helping blind people is getting us access to money and getting us access to gainful permanent work.   Michael Hingson ** 06:24 And that's what I was actually going to going to talk about, or not talk about a long time, but, but mention was that the real test will be how it affects the job market and the unemployment rate and so on. And I hope that that that will go down. I know it's been sort of ticking up a little bit, although in reality, of course, for persons with disabilities, the unemployment rate is a whole lot higher than around 4% so it'll be interesting to see how all that goes all the way around. But even just the national unemployment rate, I would hope that if that has been an excuse because the rates have been high, that now we'll see that start to drop, and, you know, so we'll see. But I think it's a it's going to be one of those waiting games to see how the world responds. Of course, we have a whole political thing going on with the election and I'm sure that some people on the political side like the the drop better than people on the other side do, but again, we'll see how it all goes. So it's it makes life fun. Well, tell me a little bit about you, if you would, sort of maybe the early cane growing up and all that sort of stuff. You were born, according to your bio, back in 1965 so I was 15 at the time, so I remember the year. So you've, you've been around a little while, though, however, so tell us a little bit about the early cane.   Kane Brolin ** 07:54 Yeah, I don't remember too many years, or any years, really, prior to about maybe 1971 or 72 with any degree of real clarity. You know, I would say that my early years were a mixed bag, but in the main they were good, of course, being immediately confronted with rLf, or retinopathy of prematurity, as they call it these days, and being blind from the very beginning, most people would probably out there consider it a tragedy. But if I if I knew that it was my fate to be a blind person, which I suppose it is, then I won the lottery as being a blind person, I think. And that might be a controversial statement, but the truth is that there is no place in the United States, and probably no place in the world that would have been better for me to grow up in in the late 1960s and 1970s than in Iowa, because now there was, there was no other blindness in my family. It's not hereditary. My parents had no idea how to deal with it in the very beginning.   Michael Hingson ** 09:12 Were you born prematurely? I was, yeah, which is why I weigh you have that   Kane Brolin ** 09:16 something like two pounds, 10 ounces at birth. So there is a part of me that realizes that I am very fortunate to be alive, and I'm very fortunate that my brain has functioned pretty well for most of my life. You can't always count on that either, you know, and when you get when you get older, my my father was a very bright person, and yet he lived during the last 10 years of his life, he struggled with dementia and some other problems so but I can say that I've had a good run so far, and you know what they what they didn't know. At least my parents and others in my family knew what they didn't know. And I. But when you don't know what you don't know, you flounder and and settle for almost anything, including fear. But when you know what you don't know, then you understand you need to research things. And I happened to be in a state that had been graced by the presence of Dr Kenneth Jernigan, principally. And of course, other people that I had no idea who they were at that time. You know, folks like James gaschell and James on VIG right, and and others. I think Joanne Wilson came out of that mix. I didn't know her either, but I've read about all these people in the past, but, but first and foremost, my parents found out that Dr Jernigan was number one, very brilliant. Number two did not settle for low expectations. And number three had the advantage of being both the head of the Iowa Commission for the Blind, which was a state sanctioned Agency, and the National Federation of the Blind, which is, or, you know, has been for most of the last 84 years, the leading advocacy organization and civil rights organization of the Blind in in the United States. Now, I'm not here to make a political point about that, but in Iowa, they were definitely more well known than anyone was, and because he could pull strings which influence things like educational budgets, and he also had very much a civil rights mindset and an aggressive mindset of going forward and breaking down barriers, this is a rare combo platter of traits and possibilities that I very much benefited from. And when I say that, I mean that from the very beginning, at five or six years old, I had Braille. I didn't have Braille in the beginning, but, but my parents did and and my dad actually knew enough about it to construct a set of blocks with print lettering on one side, Braille on the other side. And so not only did I have a really good teacher in my first couple of years of public school education named Doris Willoughby, some may be familiar with her. I know Doris will rip she has passed on in the past couple years, but she made a great impact in in my life, and a very deep impact in others lives too. But because of her influence and like minded people, I had access to books. I had access to mostly mainstreamed integrated education, where I was in the classroom with other sighted students, except for certain parts of certain days, you know, I had access to a great big wall mounted tactile map that was like a puzzle. And I understand Dr Jernigan designed that one too, where I could actually feel and take apart the states of the Union. And so I could tell where Oklahoma was, where Massachusetts was, where Indiana is. I could tell the shapes of the various states. I thought it was kind of curious that California, where you are from, Michael, is shaped very much like a banana, or at least that's what occurred to me at that time. I had recorded books. I had talking books. And you know, while there are things I did not get out of a mainstream public education that I kind of wish I had gotten out of it, from a social standpoint, from an athletic standpoint, the academics were on point, and I had access to resources, and I kind of just was living in a in a dream world, in a way, because even through my college days, I thought, Well, gee, it's great that we have all this now. Why is there all this blind civil rights stuff going on now? Because this was solved from the beginning of my childhood. Little did I realize that that is not the case in most other parts of the country or the world, but I got what I needed to at least have a shot on goal at success, and I'm very grateful for that, and it's one of the reasons that I have chosen to dedicate a portion of my life, during my prime working years, even to the National Federation of the Blind, because I want to pay this forward and help out some people that may not have had all the advantages that I had, even, even in the bygone days that I was growing up,   Michael Hingson ** 14:23 sure? So tell me, because I went through some of the same experiences you did in terms of being born premature and becoming blind due to rLf, which stands for retro enteral fibroplasia. And if people want to know how to spell that, they can go by thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog, and the triumph of trust at ground zero. And you can learn how to spell it there, because I don't remember how to spell it. We put it in the book, but that's what I remember. But so when you be when it was discovered that you were blind, how did your parents handle that? What did they say? Right? What did the doctors say to them? Because my experience was and, you know, of course, I didn't know it at the time, but my parents told me later that the doctor said, send him off to a home because he could never amount to anything, because no blind child could ever contribute to society. What was, if, from your understanding from your parents, what was what happened to you? If any   Kane Brolin ** 15:21 doctor ever said that to them? They never told me about it. What I what I do know is that there is an eye doctor that was a part of their lives, who I saw a couple of times, probably in my childhood, who was a a female optometrist or maybe an ophthalmologist in the area, and they really had a lot of respect for her. I never felt marginalized or dismissed. Yeah, as a part of my childhood, part of it is that I don't think my parents would have tolerated that, and my   Michael Hingson ** 15:55 parents didn't, either my parents and my parents didn't either they said, No, you're wrong. He can grow up to do whatever he wants, and we're going we're going to give him that opportunity. And they brought me up that way, which is, of course, part of what led to my psyche being what it is. And I too, believe in paying it forward and doing work to try to educate people about blindness and so on, and supporting and and I've been involved with the National Federation of the Blind since 1972 so it's been a while. Yeah, I would say,   Kane Brolin ** 16:27 I know I remember. I have a very, very fuzzy memory of being four, maybe five years old, and I know that they considered putting me into the Iowa Braille and sight saving School, which was a school for the blind in Iowa no longer exists, by the way, but they did consider it and decided against it. I don't think they wanted me to just go off to boarding school I was five. I know that that does work for some people, and I know that in later years, I've read that in some cases, even Dr Jernigan believed that schools for the blind were better, especially in places where there wasn't a truly sincere effort by public school systems to integrate and set high expectations for blind students. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 17:13 of course, here in California, for example, in the 50s and so on, as the California School for the Blind we had and and earlier, Dr Newell Perry, among others, who was a blind mathematician. Of course, Dr tembrech was was out here, and there were values and reasons why the schools could make a difference. My parents were pushed really hard by my elementary school principal to send me off to that school, and I actually remember hearing shouting matches between them, because parents said ah and and I didn't go to the school. I don't know what it was like by the time we moved out here and we were putting me in kindergarten, first and second grade. So like in 5657 I'm not sure what the school was like, but my parents didn't want me to not have a real home environment. So, you know,   Kane Brolin ** 18:12 yeah, and so, you know, I remember my childhood is, well, it wasn't like everybody else's childhood. One of the the issues happened to be that my the neighborhood that my family lived in, did not have a lot of kids in it that were my age for most of the time I was there, the schools in the early to mid 70s at least that admitted blind students in the town that I grew up in, which was Cedar Rapids, Iowa, there was only one set of schools on the opposite side of town where they were sending blind kids for those resources. Now that later changed and the decision was made. I guess I made the decision to stay out there. So one of the differences was that I was bussed from the southeast side of town to the southwest side of town. So there were kids I got to know through school, but I didn't have any kind of social life with most of them, with a couple different exceptions, through my childhood. So it was a lot of academics, it wasn't a lot of play time, right? That certainly informed how I grew up, and it's made me a little bit struggle to understand and and be a really sensitive, playful, patient type parent, because my my kids and I'll, we'll go there when we get there, but my, my children, I have four, they're all still in home right now, are very normal kind of rambunctious kids that enjoy and struggle with the same things that any other kids do. They are all sighted, but, but my parents were. Was pretty strict. They set high expectations, but some of that was high expectations for behavior as well. So I really wasn't ramming around and causing trouble and getting into mischief and, you know, getting on my bike and riding for miles outside the way kids did in the 70s. So there there were limitations in my childhood, but, but, you know, my parents, too, expected me to utilize and to have the resources that would lead me to be anything I wanted to be. And I honestly think that if I had said, I want to be the President of the United States, they would not have ruled it out. Now, the only thing I've really been president of is several different civic organizations and the Indiana branch of the NFB. You know, that's something not everyone does. I've interviewed a governor before when I was a journalism student. That was fun, and I've met congress people, but they did not set the limitations. You know, sometimes maybe I did, but but they didn't. And so I'm really grateful for that, that as long as I knew what I wanted, they made sure that I had the tools and access to whatever training they knew about that could help me to   Michael Hingson ** 21:18 get there. So you you went through school. And I think our our younger lives were fairly similar, because I also, when I went into fourth grade, and we finally had a resource teacher in the area, I was bused to the other side of town for that. And all of that kind of came together when I started high school, because everyone in Palmdale went to the same high school, so anyone I knew prior to going across town, I got to know again, and still knew as as friends growing up, but we all went to high school together. But you know, I hear exactly what you're saying, and my parents did not impose limitations either, and I'm very blessed for that. But you went through school and then you went to college. Tell me about college.   Kane Brolin ** 22:19 It was a fun experience. Glad that I went through it. I attended Iowa State University for my bachelor's degree. I know that you've never, ever heard this before, but I really dreamed about being a radio personality. And I say that sarcastically. It's what I wanted to be, because I had a cousin that was in the business. But of course, since then, as I've gotten more into blind blindness culture and met many other people that I never knew growing up, I know that that the media and especially radio as a gift, is really fascinating to many of us, and a lot of us have had rotations in different parts of that, especially with the advent of the internet, but this was back during the 70s and 80s, and what I wanted to be at first was a DJ. Used to pretend to be one at home all the time and then, but I also knew where the library was, and I developed a great love of books and information and data. To some degree, I wasn't really a math guy, more of a word guy, but I then developed a deep interest in journalism and investigation and research, and so by the middle to late 80s, what I wanted to be was, let's just call it the next Peter Jennings, if one can remember who that is, right. And I'm sure that there are probably, you know, facsimiles of him today,   Michael Hingson ** 23:50 but it's hard to be a facsimile of Peter Jennings. But yeah, he really is,   Kane Brolin ** 23:55 and that he was great and but you know the disadvantage, the advantage and the disadvantage of going to Iowa State University. I Why did I go there? Because any of my few relatives that had gone to college, including my dad, had had gone there. My dad was very loyal to his alma mater, and he told both myself and my sister, who is a very different person and not blind at all. If it was good enough for me, it's good enough for you, and if you want me to pay for it, here's where you're going to go. Now, Iowa State is mostly an engineering and agricultural school. It's a land grant institution. And I know that land grant institutions are a little controversial in today's climate where there is more of an emphasis on diversity, equity, inclusion and making up for some past societal wrongs, but these are deeply respected institutions that mainly turned out people that ended up well, doing things like building. Bridges and being mechanical engineers and developing new seed corn hybrids and things of this nature. It did have a telecommunicative arts program, and I was in it, but there were very few of us in it, and I did get a chance to get my hands on the equipment. I was a broadcaster, first on a student radio station at Iowa State called K usr. Then I actually did work for pay, sort of for a number of years for w, O I am and FM, which were flagship stations of what we would now call the the NPR network. You know, these were around since the 20s, and I actually did work for them. I was on air a little bit. I ran the control board a lot, and I worked for those two stations on a part time basis, probably about a three quarter time basis, for several years after leaving college, and it was really a student job, but I had trouble finding any other more meaningful work in the industry. What I gradually came to find out is that I loved radio, but radio really didn't love me, and I wasn't really thinking strategically. At that time, I graduated in 1988 it is that very same year that a little known figure from Kansas City named Rush Limbaugh hit the American airwaves like a ton of bricks. And because of him and some other people like him, all of a sudden, local stations realized that they could drop their news and information programming, stop hiring so many people, and because Mr. Limbaugh was as popular as he was, they could basically run a lot of satellite based programming, have somebody sort of halfway monitor the board and hire somebody else to program computer systems that would put automated commercial breaks on and things like this, and they wouldn't really have to produce local content. We also saw the elimination of the equal time standard and the Fairness Doctrine, which required local stations to put on a variety of viewpoints and air programming every week that was in the public interest, that didn't necessarily have commercial value. And so the things I wanted to do became a lot harder to do, because by the time I was ready to get hired to do them, not a lot of radio stations were hiring people to do it, even in the even in the television world, and so strategically, I was buying into a sinking market, and That wasn't a great place to be at that time. And so with some reluctance, after a lot of fruitless job searching, I chose another path, not necessarily knowing where that path would lead. And so the last time I ever got paid to run a shift for a radio station was in late June of 1993 I've been a guest on a couple of different shows and some podcasts like this one. I greatly enjoy it. I've even thought about doing some internet broadcasting. I don't have the time, really to do that now, but, but, and I miss it, but I have found out there are ways of diverting the skill sets I have to another path.   Michael Hingson ** 28:25 And what path did you choose?   Kane Brolin ** 28:28 Initially, the path I chose was graduate school. I was fortunate enough to have gotten good enough grades that I was able to get approved by a number of different business schools. You know, the first path I really wanted to do is be a Foreign Service Officer for the diplomatic corps. I applied for the US Department of State. And I had some hopes in doing that, because around 1990 a gentleman named Rami Rabbi. You may know him, I do did became the first blind person ever to be a Foreign Service Officer. Now, he had advantages. He had traveled the world. I had traveled to Mexico and Costa Rica, and I spoke Spanish, and I was pretty fluent, but he was a little bit more qualified in different ways that they were looking for. So I wanted some international experience. I applied for the Peace Corps, and I had no real shot at that. What they were looking for was something very different from what I was then. But I did apply to the Foreign Service, and I made it almost all the way down the hiring process. I made the final 3% cut among the class they were looking at in 1990 and 91 I went to Virginia to, I think Alexandria and I sat for the last round of interviews and simulations that they did. Unfortunately, I was in the top 3% and they wanted the top 1% so I had a really fun few days out there at the government's expense. But I also found that I was not going to be hired to be the second blind. Foreign Service officer. I later found out that Mr. Robbie had to actually file a lawsuit and win that lawsuit to get his opportunity. So I know that the system were not exactly bought in to blame people doing this on a regular basis. I know there's others that have gotten there since that, and I've met one of them, but but that that wasn't for me, but they also said what I really needed was more management experience. I'd never done anything in management, so I decided to go to management school or business school as graduate school. I got accepted by a few different places. I chose Northwestern University in Chicago. My sister had gone through that program. I guess that's maybe one of the reasons I selected that one. I could have gone to a couple of others that also had accepted me, and sometimes I wonder what would have happened had I done that. But I did spend two years in Chicago land met some of the most impressive people that I've ever met in my life. Figured out train systems and pace bus systems, and went all over the place and had friends in the city, not just in the school. I made the most of that time, and that's what I did from 1993 to 1995 unfortunately, I found out you can get a an MBA or a master of management, but they still, still weren't hiring a lot of blind people out there. And so while my associates were getting jobs at McKinsey and Company, and Booz Allen Hamilton, as it was known at that time, and they were working for Bank of America, doing all kinds of interesting things and and also brand management companies like disco and Kellogg and all that. I got all of one job offer coming out of one of the top 5b schools in the country, and I took that job offer, which led me to Midland, Michigan, where I knew nobody at that time, but I spent about three and a half years doing various types of business research for the Dow Chemical Company, and that did not last as a career, but I got a chance to make the first real money I had ever earned. At that time through another connection that wasn't related to Dow, I happened to meet the woman that I eventually married and am with now, and have had four kids with, and so that was a whole different kettle of fish. But at the end of 98 I was downsized, along with several others in my department, and we decided at that time that entrepreneurship was probably not a bad way to go, or, you know, something that wasn't just strictly speaking corporate. In 2000 I landed in the South Bend, Indiana area, which is where she is from. I had never lived here before. This is where I am now. And while struggling to find a place here, I realized that I could get hired on as what is called a financial advisor. I had no idea what that was. Well, you know, with a business degree, I could probably be a credible hire as a financial advisor. Little did I know that that involved tele sales. In the very beginning, never thought I was a salesperson either. Since then, I have found out that I have more selling ability than I had ever thought that I might and that that is an honorable profession if you're convincing people to do what is right for themselves. And so I've found that over the years, being what I am enables me to, well, in a way, keep my own hours. We've chosen the small business, sort of independent contracting route, rather than the employee channel, working for a bank or for somebody else's brokerage. I get to be a researcher, I get to be a public speaker now and then, and I get to help people problem solve, which is something I would not have had a chance to do on the radio. And when someone comes up to you, as a few people have and have, said, you know, thank you for making it possible for me to retire and to do what I want to do, and to spend time with grandkids and to live where I want to live. You know, that's a that's definitely a hit. That's a great feeling to have someone say, Thank you for helping me to do and to be what I didn't know I could do or be. So   Michael Hingson ** 34:38 investing isn't what you had originally planned to do with your life. So I can't say that it was necessarily a lifelong goal from the beginning, but you evolved into it, and it seems to be going pretty well for you.   Kane Brolin ** 34:51 Well, yeah, I think it has. It's investing means different things to different. People, to some clients, the goal is, I just don't want to lose money. Please put me in something that earns a little bit, but I don't want the chance for anything I'm in to go down for others. What investing means is, I want to be more aggressive. I want to build what I have. What do you think about this or that opportunity? What stock should I be in? Because I really want to grab onto an opportunity and seize the day and have as much as I can have at the end of the day. And you know, For still others, it means, it means giving. It means building something up so I can pass it along, either to a charity, to the kids, to the grandkids, to to my religious institution of choice, whatever that is. So I find that investing is not just investing, the the at the root, at the heart of investing, the heartbeat of it, is really the people that I serve. And you know, I was told early on, hey, you don't have a practice. All you're doing is practicing, unless you have people to be in front of. And so in my mind, you know, and I'm not that much of a quantitative guy. I'm I'm not the person out there working as an actuary for Symmetra Life Insurance Company figuring out how much money has to go in and how much it must earn to be able to give 50,000 people the payouts they want from an annuity till the end of their projected lifespans. That's that's not where I am. I'm not designing a mutual fund that's more like what a certified financial analyst would be. I am a Certified Financial Planner practitioner, and what a CFP does is takes numbers that you see and translates those into action steps that I can explain in plain English terms to a client I'm in front of that can give that individual person, family or small business the kinds of outcomes that they want. So I'm on the retail end of the food chain, and my job is to try to take the numbers that others are generating and boil that down into something that is digestible to the common man and woman, that allows them to, we hope, live the way they want. So   Michael Hingson ** 37:29 I gather from listening to you though, that you enjoy what you do.   Kane Brolin ** 37:36 I do particularly when it works.   Michael Hingson ** 37:39 Well, there's times.   Kane Brolin ** 37:40 There are times it gets a little tricky. 2001 2002 I know that you had a very personal experience that vaulted you, Michael, into this, into the realm of the famous, or the Almost Famous, on 911 I remember what 911 was like as a very small time retail investment person working out of a field office. I was somebody's employee at that point. I was working for American Express financial advisors, and I remember my life was never in danger in 911 but there were a lot of clients that thought their money and their data were in danger, and then the country that the country itself, might even be in danger. And so I morphed during that week from being a telemarketing person trying to set appointments with people I'd never met to being a person who was trying to dole out comfort and a feeling of security and solace to people I had met who the few that I was managing their accounts at that time, calling them and saying, You know what, your money and your data are safe. I'm here. The company that you have your stuff invested with is based in Minneapolis. It's not based in the Twin Towers, the markets are shut down. There will be volatility, but you're not crashing today, just so   Michael Hingson ** 39:08 the other the other side of it, the other side of that, was that during that week after September 11, there were a lot of people who were working and moving, literally Heaven and Earth, if you will, to bring Wall Street back. And I know I'm working with some of those companies and providing them with the backup equipment, or not so much at the time, backup equipment, but the equipment that would be able to read existing tape backups and put that back on computers. And I know, I think it was Morgan Stanley had found an office space sometime during the week after September 11. Then, as they describe it, it was the building with a floor the size of a foot. Football field, and they scrounged and scavenged and got their providers of equipment, like IBM to provide them with computers, even taking them from IBM employees desks to provide enough equipment to be able to set up what was the equivalent to the trading floor that had been in the world trade center that was destroyed on September 11, and literally from Friday afternoon that would have been the 14th to the 16th in 36 hours. They not only reconstructed physically what the trading floor was but because of what we provided them with, they were able to completely reconstruct what everything looked like on their computers. So when Wall Street reopened on the 17th, everything was like it was when everything shut down on the 11th now, I think there's some blessings to the fact that the towers were struck before Wall Street opened. I don't know how much easier that made it maybe some, but the reality is that data is backed up regularly, so they would have been able to to survive, but the fact that the markets hadn't opened in the US certainly had to help. But by Monday, the 17th, they brought Wall Street back, just as if nothing had happened. It was a monumental feat to be able to do that. That is a story   Kane Brolin ** 41:37 that I would love to read, because I've never heard that story before, and that makes me feel very unintelligent. Michael, you know, I can't even imagine the logistics and the people and just even the imagination that it would take to reconstruct that. I'm sure it was 1000s. I'm sure it was 1000s of people. And I'm sure that probably that's something that somebody had thought about even before the 911 incident happened. I don't think that was invented out of whole cloth on Friday the 14th, but that's a story that would be a very captivating book, and if no one's written it, then, gosh, would that be a fun thing to research and write.   Michael Hingson ** 42:21 Well, you know, the reality is, the SEC required that all data from financial institutions had to be backed up and kept available off site for seven years. So first of all, the data was all around and that's why I think it was an especially great blessing that the markets hadn't opened, because all the backups from the previous night, and probably from all the not only the futures, but the sales from foreign markets, were pretty much all backed up as well. So everything was backed up. That, of course, was the real key, because getting the hardware, yes, that was a logistical nightmare that they were able to address, getting the computers, getting everything where they needed it. Then companies like ours providing them with the wherewithal to be able to pull the data from the tapes and put it back onto the computers. It had to be quite a feat, but it all worked. And when Wall Street opened, it opened as if nothing had happened, even though some of the the offices were now in completely different places across the river. But it all worked, incredible. Yeah, I was, it was, it was pretty amazing. I knew people from the firms. And of course, we helped them by providing them with equipment. But at the same time, hearing about the story later was was really quite amazing, and and they did a wonderful job to bring all that back. So it was pretty, pretty amazing that that all that occurred. So that was pretty cool all the way. And   Kane Brolin ** 44:00 of course, the other struggle was in 2007 2008 I remember when I would be sitting at my desk and I'm not a day trader, I'm, I'm, I'm a long term investor. That's what most of my clients want. I'm not in there, you know, trading, trading daily options. I'm not doing inverse leveraged products that have to be bought in the morning and then sold in the afternoon under most cases. But I remember sitting at my desk in 2008 when the great recession was going on with the financial crisis happened and and when banks and huge investment banks, brokerage institutions were, in some cases, completely failing, that's a whole other story that was chronicled in books like The Big Short as an example, but I remember sitting at my desk and timing it and watching in a five minute period of time. As the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which was back in in those days, was, was what maybe 6000 or so as a benchmark. It was going up and down by a margin of error of 800 points in five minutes, it would be 400 up one minute, and then 400 down from that level. In other words, an 800 point swing within a five minute period of time. There was one day I went to take a test, because I have continuing education on a pretty regular basis, had to go to a testing center and take a test that lasted maybe three hours. I got back, and I think the market for at least the Dow Jones had dropped by 800 points during the time that I was in the testing center. And that gives you some stomach acid when that sort of thing happens, because even though it it's, you know, things always bounce back, and they always bounce up and down. Clients call and they say, oh my gosh, what happens if I lose it all? Because people really think that they could lose it all. Now, if you're in a mutual fund with 100 different positions, it's very unlikely, right? All of those positions go to zero. What I found out is that when people's money is concerned, it's emotional. Yeah, it's all rational. They're not looking at the empirical data. They're thinking fight or flight, and they really are concerned with what in the world am I going to do if I go to zero? And   Michael Hingson ** 46:38 it's so hard to get people to understand, if you're going to invest in the market, it has to be a long term approach, because if you don't do that, you can, you can disappoint yourself, but the reality is, over the long term, you're going to be okay. And you know now, today, once again, we're seeing the evidence of that with what the Fed did yesterday, lowering by a half a point, and how that's going to affect everything. But even over the last five or six years, so many people have been worried about inflation and worried about so many things, because some of our politicians have just tried to scare us rather than dealing with reality. But the fact of the matter is that it all will work out if we're patient and and allow things to to work. And what we need to do is to try to make wise decisions to minimize, perhaps our risk. But still, things will work out.   Kane Brolin ** 47:43 Yeah, I remember, I think, the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which is what always used to get quoted, at least on the radio and the television. It was somewhere in the somewhere in the 11,000 range, before the 2008 debacle. And it fell to, I think, 6400 right was the low that it reached. Now it's over 41,000   Michael Hingson ** 48:11 closed up above 42 yesterday. I'm not   Kane Brolin ** 48:13 sure it very well may have so you know when you when you really think about it, if you just stayed in and it's more complicated than that. One of course people have with the market is that when the market crashes, they also may need to get their money out for different, unrelated reasons. What if I lost my job as a result of the market crashing? Right? What if? What if there is a need that I have to fulfill and that money has to come out for me to make a house payment. You don't know that. And so that's the unfortunate part, is that a lot of the academic missions don't take into account the real human factor of real people that need to use their money. But if you could stand to hang on and leave it in, it would be worth you know, what would that be like six or seven times more than it was in 2008 but that's not what what clients often do. They they often want to sell out of fear when things are down, and then wait too long to buy back in when the elevator has already made its way quite a ways up, right?   Michael Hingson ** 49:25 I remember once, and I don't remember what the cause was, but Rolls Royce dropped to $3 a share. And there were some people saying, this is the time to buy. It is it's not going to go away. And those who did have done pretty well. Bank   Kane Brolin ** 49:44 of America was $3 a share for quite some time. It was, it was technically a penny stock. This is Bank of America, you know, one of the leading financial institutions in the in the country, which, incidentally, has a very interesting. History. It wasn't born in New York, it was born in the south, right? But, yeah, if you only knew what those trough opportunities were and knew exactly when to buy in and and I'm constantly telling people, look my my goal is, is not so much to figure out what to buy but when to buy in. We're trying to buy low and sell high, and just because something did well last year doesn't mean you have to hang on to it. It might mean we want to trim that position a little bit, take some profit and and pick something that doesn't look as attractive or sexy because of last year's lackluster returns, but maybe this year. It will just due to changing conditions. Financial markets run in cycles. And it's not that some things are inherently good or bad. Some things are in favor now. They were not in favor last year, and they might not be in favor, you know, two years from now, but they are now. So that's the hard part. You're not supposed to really time the market. We can't predict all these things, but that's why you encourage people to diversify and to have some things that are not correlated with each other in terms of doing well or badly at the same time. So you can always sometimes be gaining with in with your left hand, while your right hand is is struggling a bit. Hence,   Michael Hingson ** 51:25 the need for people who are certified financial planners, right? So there you go. So you, you got married, what, 27 years ago, and you married someone who was fully sighted, who probably didn't have a whole lot of exposure to blindness and blind people before. How did all that work out? Obviously, it's worked out because you're still married. But what was it like, and was it ever kind of an uncomfortable situation for you guys?   Kane Brolin ** 51:58 I don't think blindness. Surprisingly enough, I don't think it was super uncomfortable for her. Now, she had not encountered lots of blind people before, maybe not even any before. She met me, but I met her, and this is where I had it easy. She didn't have it easy, but I met her through her family. I knew my wife's name is Danica. I knew her brother before I knew her, because he and I had been buddies. We for a little while. We ended up living in the same town up in Michigan, and it was not here in the South Bend area where she is, but I went home and had a chance to be to tag along as he was doing some some family things and some things with his friends so but, but my wife is a very interesting father. She has a very interesting dad who is no longer with us. May he rest in peace? No, no. Hello. Sorry. My nine year old just made a brief appearance, and she's incorrigible.   Michael Hingson ** 53:00 You wouldn't have it any other way. No, there   Kane Brolin ** 53:03 are days when I would, but I don't. So anyway, the I found out some interesting things raising kids as a blind parent too, but you know, her dad did not see really any kind of limitations when the world around him was racist he really wasn't. When the world around him was ableist. He really didn't. And one of the things he encouraged me to do, they had a little acreage Danika parents did. And he actually asked me one time when it was a leaf blowing or leaf storing season, it was in the fall, lots of oak trees, different things there to drive the garden tractor, as there was a Baleful leaves behind that he was taken to an area where they would eventually be burned up or composted or something. And I did that. He had an old garden tractor with a, you know, his gas powered, and it had pedals and steering wheel, and he would literally run around alongside it, didn't go very fast, and tell me kind of when and where to turn. I'm told that I almost crashed into the pit where the basement of the home was one time, but I didn't. So he was one of these people that like saw virtually no limitations. Encouraged his kids and others to do great things. He didn't have a great feel for people. He would have been an anti politician. He had trouble remembering your name, but if you were a decent person and treated him right, it didn't matter if you were black, purple, green, blind, deaf, whatever. He saw it as an interesting challenge to teach me how to do things. He taught me how to kayak. He taught me how to cross country ski. Back in those days before climate change, we actually got quite a bit of snow in the area where I live, even as early as Thanksgiving to. I'm in November. And so the first couple of winters that we lived here, and we would go to a local park, or, you know, even just out in the in the backyard of where his property was, and, and, and ski, Nordic ski, not downhill ski, really, but it was, it was an amazing exercise. It's an amazing feel to be able to do that, and I have no memory, and I had no relatives that that were in touch with the true Scandinavian heritage, that ancestry.com says that I have, but the act of doing a little bit of Nordic skiing with him gave me a real feel for what some people go through. Because traditionally, skiing was a form of transportation in those countries. In the Larry P you skied to work, you skied to somebody else's house. So, you know, I thought that that was fun and interesting. Now, the last few winters, we haven't gotten enough snow to amount to anything like that, but I do have, I still have a pair of skis. So no, that may be something that we do at some point when given the opportunity, or some other place where we have a bit more of a snow base.   Michael Hingson ** 56:10 Well, I'm sure that some people would be curious to to know this being blind and doing the work that you do, you probably do. Well, you do the same things, but you probably do them in different ways, or have different technologies that you use. What's some of the equipment and kind of technologies that you use to perform your job?   Kane Brolin ** 56:32 Well, you know, I wouldn't say that. I'm cutting edge. I'm sure there are people who do differently and better than I do, but I do most of my work in a PC based environment. It's a Windows based environment at the present time, because the broker dealers and the other firms that I work through, you know, I'm independent, in a way, meaning I pay my own bills and operate out of my own space and have my name of Berlin wealth management as a shingle on my door, so to speak. But you never walk alone in this business. And so I chose, ultimately, a company called the Commonwealth financial network to serve as my investment platform and my source of technology, and my source of what is called compliance, which means, you know, they are the police walking alongside what I do to make sure that I've documented the advice I've given to people, to make sure that that advice is suitable and that I'm operating according to the law and in the best interest of my clients, and not Not taking money from them, or, you know, doing phony baloney things to trade into a stock before I recommend that to somebody else. You know, there's a lot of malfeasance that can happen in this type of industry, but all these securities that I sell and all the advice that I given are done so with the blessing of the Commonwealth Financial Network, which is a member of FINRA and SIPC, I just need to point that out here. But they also provide technology, and most of their technology is designed to work in a Windows environment, and so that's typically what I have used. So I use JAWS.   Michael Hingson ** 58:23 And JAWS is a screen reader that verbalizes what comes across the screen for people who don't know it right, or puts   Kane Brolin ** 58:28 it into Braille, or puts it into Braille in the in the in the early days of my doing the business, many of the programs that we had to use to design an insurance policy or to pick investments, or to even monitor investments were standalone programs that were not based on a web architecture that would be recognizable. And so I was very fortunate that there was money available from the vocational rehab system to bring somebody in from Easter Seals Crossroads here in Indiana, to actually write Jaws script workarounds, that is, that could help jaws to know what to pull from the graphics card on the screen or in the system, to be able to help me interact. Because otherwise, I would have opened up a program and to me, it would have just been like a blank screen. I wouldn't be able to see or interact with data on the screen. Now, with more things being web based, it's a little easier to do those things. Not always. There are still some programs that are inaccessible, but most of what I do is through the use of Windows 10 or 11, and and with the use of Jaws, I do have, I devices. I like Apple devices, the smaller ones. I'm actually speaking to you using an iPad right now, a sixth generation iPad I've had for a while. I have an iPhone so I can still, you know, look up stock tickers. I can send 10. Text messages or emails, if I have to using that. But in general, I find that for efficiency sake, that a computer, a full on computer, tends to work best and and then I use that more rapidly and with more facility than anything else, right? I use the Kurzweil 1000 system to scan PDFs, or sometimes printed documents or books, things like that, into a readable form where I'm trying to, trying to just kind of anticipate what other things you may ask about. But you know, I use office 365, just like anybody else might. You know, I I have to use a lot of commonly available programs, because the people monitoring my work, and even the clients that I interact with still need to, even if they have sight, they need to read an email right after I send it. You know, they've my assistant has to be able to proof and manipulate a document in a form that she can read, as well as one that I can listen to or use Braille with. I'm a fluent Braille reader and writer. So there are some gizmos that I use, some braille displays and Braille keyboards and things of that nature. But, you know, most people seem to be under the misconception that a blind guy has to use a special blind computer, which must cost a king's ransom, not true, if anybody's listening to the program that isn't familiar with 2024 era blindness technology, it's mostly the same as anybody else's except with the modifications that are needed to make stuff accessible in a non visual format, and   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:45 the reality is, that's what it's all about. It's not like it's magically expensive. There are some things that are more expensive that do help. But the reality is that we use the same stuff everyone else uses. Just have some things that are a little bit different so that we are able to have the same access that other people do, but at the same time, that's no different than anyone else. Like I point out to people all the time, the electric light bulb is just a reasonable accommodation for light dependent people. Anyway, it's just that there are a whole lot more people who use it, and so we spend a whole lot more time and money making it available that is light on demand to people. But it doesn't change the fact that the issue is still there, that you need that accommodation in order to function. And you know that that, of course, leads to and, well, we won't spend a lot of time on it, but you are are very involved in the National Federation of the Blind, especially the NFB of Indiana, and you continue to pay it forward. And the NFB has been all about helping people to understand that we're not defined by blindness. We're defined by what we are and who we are, and blindness is happens to be a particular characteristic that we share   Kane Brolin ** 1:03:09 well, and there's a lot of other characteristics that we might not share. As an example, somebody, I don't know that he is involved in the NFB as such, but you know blind, if you're involved in American Blind culture and and that you've probably heard of a man named George Wurtzel. He is the brother of the guy that used to be president of the NFB of Michigan affiliate. But I understand that George is very good at things that I am not at all good at. He, you know? He understand that he almost built his own house from the ground up. His skill is not with computers and email and all this electronic communication that they do today, but he's a master woodworker. He's an artisan. You know, I I'm also involved, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it, I'm also involved with an organization called Penny forward, which is, you know, it could be the direction that I ultimately head in even more because it dovetails with my career. It's financial, education and fitness by the blind, for the blind, and it was started by a young man named Chris Peterson, who's based in the Twin Cities, who is not an NFB guy. He's actually an ACB guy, but his values are not that much different, and he's been a computer programmer. He's worked for big organizations, and now he started his own and has made a full time business out of financial fitness, educational curricula, podcasting, other things that you can subscribe to and buy into. And he's trying to build a community of the varied blind people that do all kinds of things and come from all sorts of backgrounds. And in one of the later editions of his podcast, he interviewed a man who's originally from Florida, who. Founded a company called Cerro tech that some might be familiar with, Mike Calvo, and Mike came to some of the same conclusions about blindness that you and I have, except that he's much younger. He's from Florida, and he's a Cuban American. He's a Latino whose first language growing up probably was Spanish, and who actually came out of, out of the streets. I mean, he was, he was in gangs, and did all kinds of things that were very different from anything I was ever exposed to as a young person. So I think in a lot of ways, we as blind people face the same types of issues, but we don't. None of us comes at it from the same vantage point. And, you know, we're, we're all dealing with maybe some of the same circumstances, but many, many, we've gotten there in very many different ways. And so I try to also impose on people. We are all different. We're a cross section. We don't all tie our shoes or cook our meals the same way. We don't want to live in the same environment. We don't want to do the same hobbies. And we don't all have better other senses than sighted people do. I don't know how many times you've heard it. I'd be a very rich man if I had $1 for every time someone said, Well, yeah, but you know, being blind, your hearing must be so much better, your sense of smell must be so much more acute. Well, no, the the divine forces in the universe have not just compensated me by making everything else better. What do you do with someone like Helen Keller, who was blind and deaf. There are people with plenty of people with blindness, and also other morbidities or disabilities, or I don't even like disabilities, different different abilities, different strengths and weaknesses. Along with blindness, there are blind people who also happen to be autistic, which could be an advantage to them, in some ways a disadvantage to others. I would like to go beyond the discussion of disability and think of these things, and think of me and others as just simply being differently able, because, you know, what kinds of jobs and roles in life with people that have the characteristic of autism, maybe they are actually better at certain things than a non autistic person would be. Maybe overall, people who live with the characteristic of bl

Fate, Faith and Teamwork: How Michael Hingson and his dog escaped 9/11 Did you know that Michael Hingson, who was born blind, not only climbed Mount Kilimanjaro but also survived the 9/11 attacks while helping others escape? His life is full of incredible adventures! Michael Hingson, blind since birth, was born in Chicago to sighted parents who believed in raising their son with a can-do attitude. Treated like all other children in his family, Michael rode a bike did advanced math in his head and learn to read and write – Braille that is! Michael's family relocated to the warm Palmdale area of California when he was five years old. It is here that Hingson had his first adventure with Guide Dogs for the Blind and received his first guide dog.  He later went to college receiving a bachelor's and master's degree in Physics along with a secondary teaching credential from the University of California at Irvine. Michael then enjoyed a nearly-30-year career working for high tech companies spending most of his time in management roles. Michael Hingson's life changed dramatically on September 11, 2001 when he and his guide dog, Roselle, escaped from the 78th floor of Tower One in the World Trade Center moments before it collapsed. Soon after, Michael and Roselle were thrust into the international limelight where Michael began to share his unique survival story and 9-11 lessons of trust, courage, heroism, and teamwork.  Speaking to some of the world's most elite: from former President, George W. Bush to Larry King, to Fortune 500 companies and colleges and Universities Nationwide. After sharing his story of survival on hundreds of TV and Radio programs, Michael is now an Expert hired by many of today's major corporations and organizations. Speaking and consulting on the importance of Teamwork and Trust, Moving from Diversity to Inclusion, as well as offering Adaptive Technology Training – spearheading innovation for ALL! - Thus, bringing organizations to the forefront of the ever-changing competitive modern world.  Schedule a complimentary coaching call with Rebecca https://calendly.com/rebeccaelizabethwhitman/breakthrough https://modere.io/QwoNYU https://modere.io/CtlaDw To learn more about Rebecca… https://www.rebeccaelizabethwhitman.com pillar.io/rebeccaewhitman #MichaelHingson#InspirationalStories#OvercomingChallenges#Resilience#PersonalGrowth#CanDoAttitude#LifeLessons#MotivationalSpeaker#DisabilityAwareness#VisualImpairment#BlindCommunity#AdaptiveTechnology#AssistiveDevices#Braille#InclusionMatters#AccessibilityForAll#ChicagoInspiration#PalmdalePride#ChicagoEvents#PalmdaleCommunity#BreakingBarriers#EmpowerThroughAdversity#StrengthInDiversity#AbilityNotDisability#UnstoppableMindset

Fate, Faith and Teamwork: How Michael Hingson and his dog escaped 9/11 Did you know that Michael Hingson, who was born blind, not only climbed Mount Kilimanjaro but also survived the 9/11 attacks while helping others escape? His life is full of incredible adventures! Michael Hingson, blind since birth, was born in Chicago to sighted parents who believed in raising their son with a can-do attitude. Treated like all other children in his family, Michael rode a bike did advanced math in his head and learn to read and write – Braille that is! Michael's family relocated to the warm Palmdale area of California when he was five years old. It is here that Hingson had his first adventure with Guide Dogs for the Blind and received his first guide dog.  He later went to college receiving a bachelor's and master's degree in Physics along with a secondary teaching credential from the University of California at Irvine. Michael then enjoyed a nearly-30-year career working for high tech companies spending most of his time in management roles. Michael Hingson's life changed dramatically on September 11, 2001 when he and his guide dog, Roselle, escaped from the 78th floor of Tower One in the World Trade Center moments before it collapsed. Soon after, Michael and Roselle were thrust into the international limelight where Michael began to share his unique survival story and 9-11 lessons of trust, courage, heroism, and teamwork.  Speaking to some of the world's most elite: from former President, George W. Bush to Larry King, to Fortune 500 companies and colleges and Universities Nationwide. After sharing his story of survival on hundreds of TV and Radio programs, Michael is now an Expert hired by many of today's major corporations and organizations. Speaking and consulting on the importance of Teamwork and Trust, Moving from Diversity to Inclusion, as well as offering Adaptive Technology Training – spearheading innovation for ALL! - Thus, bringing organizations to the forefront of the ever-changing competitive modern world.  Schedule a complimentary coaching call with Rebecca https://calendly.com/rebeccaelizabethwhitman/breakthrough https://modere.io/QwoNYU https://modere.io/CtlaDw To learn more about Rebecca… https://www.rebeccaelizabethwhitman.com pillar.io/rebeccaewhitman #MichaelHingson#InspirationalStories#OvercomingChallenges#Resilience#PersonalGrowth#CanDoAttitude#LifeLessons#MotivationalSpeaker#DisabilityAwareness#VisualImpairment#BlindCommunity#AdaptiveTechnology#AssistiveDevices#Braille#InclusionMatters#AccessibilityForAll#ChicagoInspiration#PalmdalePride#ChicagoEvents#PalmdaleCommunity#BreakingBarriers#EmpowerThroughAdversity#StrengthInDiversity#AbilityNotDisability#UnstoppableMindset

Jesse aims to blow our collective minds on a quantum level MERCH - http://www.theyetee.com/collections/chilluminati All you lovely people at Patreon! HTTP://PATREON.COM/CHILLUMINATIPOD HEROFORGE - http://www.heroforge.com Promo Code: CHILL Jesse Cox - http://www.youtube.com/jessecox Alex Faciane - http://www.youtube.com/user/superbeardbros Editor - DeanCutty http://www.twitter.com/deancutty Show art by - https://twitter.com/JetpackBraggin http://www.instagram.com/studio_melectro

 Michael Hingson, blind since birth, was born in Chicago to sighted parents who believed in raising their son with a can-do attitude. Treated like all other children in his family, Michael rode a bike did advanced math in his head and learn to read and write – Braille that is! Michael's family relocated to the warm Palmdale area of California when he was five years old. It is here that Hingson had his first adventure with Guide Dogs for the Blind and received his first guide dog. He later went to college receiving a bachelor's and master's degree in Physics along with a secondary teaching credential from the University of California at Irvine. Michael then enjoyed a nearly-30-year career working for high tech companies spending most of his time in management roles. Michael Hingson's life changed dramatically on September 11, 2001 when he and his guide dog, Roselle, escaped from the 78th floor of Tower One in the World Trade Center moments before it collapsed. Soon after, Michael and Roselle were thrust into the international limelight where Michael began to share his unique survival story and 9-11 lessons of trust, courage, heroism, and teamwork. Mike has served as The National Public Affairs Director for one of the largest Nonprofit organizations in the nation: Guide Dogs for the Blind; He has served as the vice president of the National Association of Guide Dog Users; Michael has held a seat on the Fort Worth Lighthouse for the Blind. He is the chair of the board of directors of the Earle Baum Center for the Blind and is the vice chair of the Colorado Center for the Blind; Michael is The National Ambassador for the Braille Literacy Campaign of the National Federation of the Blind. Until October 2019 he worked as the CEO of the Do More Foundation, the non-profit arm of Aira Tech Corp, a manufacturer of assistive technology which makes a revolutionary visual interpreter for blind people. In January 2021 Mike joined accessiBe as its Chief Vision Officer to help advance the company goal of making the entire internet fully inclusive. AccessiBe provides an artificial intelligence-based product that makes web sites accessible to many persons with disabilities. He is the author of the #1 New York Times Best Seller: “Thunder dog –The True Story of a Blind Man, a Guide Dog & the Triumph of Trust” – selling over 2.5 million copies Worldwide. In 2014 Mr. Hingson published his 2 nd book “Running with Roselle”- which Is the first of its kind- A story for our youth shedding light on one of Americas Darkest Days. Mr. Hingson's third book, “Live Like A Guide Dog”, was released on August 20, 2024. This book shows readers how they can learn to control fear and not, as Mike would say, “become blinded by fear in the face of crisis”. Aside from his talents and advocacies, Mr. Hingson has traveled the Globe from Japan to New Zealand, the Netherlands to his hometown, Chicago. Speaking to some of the world's most elite: from former President, George W. Bush to Larry King, to Fortune 500 companies and colleges and Universities Nationwide. After sharing his story of survival on hundreds of TV and Radio programs, Michael is now an Expert hired by many of today's major corporations and organizations. Speaking and consulting on the importance of Teamwork and Trust, Moving from Diversity to Inclusion, as well as offering Adaptive Technology Training – spearheading innovation for ALL! - Thus, bringing organizations to the forefront of the ever-changing competitive modern world. Body Transformation System!https://modere.io/NbOyU2https://calendly.com/rebeccaelizabethwhitman/breakthroughTo learn more about Rebecca…https://www.rebeccaelizabethwhitman.com/#homehttps://everydaywomantv.com/tv_shows/the-balanced-beautiful-and-abundant-show/

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I want to introduce you to our guest this time, Fred Dummar. I met Fred through Susy Flory who helped me write Thunder Dog. Fred is taking a class from Susy on writing and is well along with his first book. I look forward to hearing about its publishing sometime in 2025.   Fred hails from a VERY small town in Central Nevada. After high school Fred went to the University of Nevada in Reno. While at University, Fred joined the Nevada National Guard which helped him pay his way through school and which also set him on a path of discovery about himself and the world. After college Fred joined the U.S. army in 1990. He was accepted into the Special Forces in 1994 and served in various locations around the world and held ranks from Captain through Colonel.   Fred and I talk a fair amount about leadership and how his view of that subject grew and changed over the years. He retired from the military in 2015. He continues to be incredibly active serving in a variety of roles in both the for profit and nonprofit arenas.   I love Fred's leadership style and philosophy. I hope you will as well. Fred has lots of insights that I believe you will find helpful in whatever you are doing.       About the Guest:   Colonel (Retired) Fred Dummar was born and raised in the remote town of Gabbs, Nevada. He enlisted in the Nevada National Guard in 1986 and served as a medic while attending the University of Nevada. He was commissioned as an Infantry Officer in the U.S. Army in April 1990.   Fred was selected for Special Forces in 1994 and went on to command at every level in Special Forces from Captain to Colonel. He trained and deployed in many countries, including Panama, Venezuela, Guyana, Nigeria, Zambia, Botswana, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Most notably, Col Dummar participated in the liberation of Kurdish Northern Iraq in 2003, assisting elements of the Kurdish Peshmerga (resistance fighters) with the initial liberation of Mosul.   Colonel Dummar's last tour in uniform was as the Commander of the Advisory Group for Afghan Special Forces from May 2014 to June 2015. Immediately after retiring, he returned to Afghanistan as a defense contractor to lead the Afghan Army Special Operations Command and Special Mission Wing training programs until May 2017.   Beginning in 2007 and continuing until 2018, Fred guided his friend, who was blinded in Iraq, through 40 Marathons, several Ultra marathons, climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, running with the bulls in Pamplona, and a traverse of the Sahara Desert to raise funds and awareness for Special Forces Soldiers. He personally ran numerous Ultramarathons, including 23 separate 100-mile runs and over a hundred races from 50 miles to marathon.   Fred graduated from the U.S. Army Command and Staff College and the U.S. Army War College with master's degrees in military art and science, strategy, and policy. He is currently pursuing a Doctoral Degree in Organizational Psychology and Leadership.   Since retiring from the Army in 2015, Fred has led in nonprofit organizations from the Board of Directors with the Special Forces Charitable Trust (2015-2022) as the Chief of Staff for Task Force Dunkirk during the evacuation of Afghan Allies in August 2021, as a leadership fellow with Mission 43 supporting Idaho's Veterans (2020-2023), and as a freshwater advocate with Waterboys with trips to East Africa in 2017 and 2019 to assist in funding wells for remote tribes.   Fred has led in the civilian sector as the Senior Vice President of Legacy Education, also known as Rich Dad Education, from 2017-2018 and as the startup CEO for Infinity Education from 2021-2022, bringing integrity and compassion to Real Estate Education. Fred continues investing in Real Estate as a partner in Slate Mountain Homes, Idaho and trains new investors to find, rehab, and flip manufactured homes with Alpine Capital Solutions.   Fred is married to Rebecca Dummar, and they reside in Idaho Falls, Idaho, with three of their children, John, Leah, and Anna. Their daughter Alana attends the University of Michigan.   Ways to connect with Fred:   Here is a link to my webpage - https://guidetohuman.com/ Here is a link to my Substack where I write - https://guidetohuman.substack.com/   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet, but it's more fun to talk about unexpected than inclusion or diversity, although it is relevant to talk about both of those. And our guest today is Fred Dummar. It is pronounced dummar or dumar. Dummar, dummar, see, I had to do that. So Fred is a person I met Gosh about seven or eight months ago through Susy Flory, who was my co author on thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust at ground zero. And Susy introduced us because Fred is writing a book. We're going to talk about that a bunch today, and we'll also talk about Fred's career and all sorts of other things like that. But we've had some fascinating discussions, and now we finally get to record a podcast, so I'm glad to do that. So Fred Dummar, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Fred Dummar ** 02:22 Yeah, no. Thanks for having me. Michael, yeah, we've had some some interesting discussions about everything unstoppable mind and blindness and diversity. And yeah, it's good to be on here.   Michael Hingson ** 02:34 Yeah. And one of the things I know that you have done is ran with a blind marathoner, and I'm anxious to hear about that, as well as what an ultra marathon is. We'll get to that, however. But why don't we start by you may be talking a little bit about kind of the early freight growing up and all that you grew up in, in Nevada, in a in a kind of remote place. So I'm going to just leave it to you to talk about all   Fred Dummar ** 02:57 that. Yeah, Michael, so, and actually, that's part of my, part of my story that I'm writing about. Because, you know, obviously, where we're from forms a large basis of how we sometimes interact with the world. And I came from a very remote town in Nevada. It's dying, by the way. I'm not sure how long that town will be with us, but, yeah, being from a small town where, you know, graduating class was 13 kids, and it's an hour to the closest place that you could watch a movie or get fast food, those types of things, it's definitely a different type of childhood, and much one, much more grounded in self reliance and doing activities that you can make up yourself, right? Instead of being looking for others to entertain you.   Michael Hingson ** 03:50 Yeah, I hear you. So what was it like growing up in a small town? I grew up in Palmdale, California, so it was definitely larger than where you grew up, we had a fairly decent sized High School senior graduating class. It wasn't 13, but what was it like growing up in that kind of environment?   Fred Dummar ** 04:12 Yeah, it was. It was one where you know, not only did you know everybody, everybody else knew you, and so you could pretty much count on anyone in the town for for assistance or, or, you know, if, I guess, if you were on the house for not, not assistance, so, but no, it was. It was a great place to have many, many, many friends from there. But it was, certainly was an adjustment, because I think growing up, there are our sort of outlook on life for us, you know, certainly from the people that that ran our high school and the other adults, most people were seen as, you know, your life after high school would be going to work at one of. The mines, or going to work on one of the, you know, family cattle ranch or something like that. So making the jump from there to, you know, even a few hours away to Reno, you know, to start at the University of Nevada, that was a big it's a big jump from for me, and because the school is so small, I ended up graduating from high school when I was 16, so I barely had a driver's license, and now I am several hours away and Reno, Nevada, going to the university. And, you know, quite an adjustment for me.   Michael Hingson ** 05:32 It's interesting. A few days ago, I had the opportunity to do a podcast episode with someone who's very much involved and knows a lot about bullying and so on, and just listening to you talk, it would seem like you probably didn't have a whole lot of the bully type mentality, because everyone was so close, and everyone kind of interacted with each other, so probably that sort of stuff wasn't tolerated very well. Yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 05:59 it was, it was more so outsiders. I mean, kids that had grown up there all sort of, you know, knew where they were or weren't in the pecking order. Things and things sort of stayed kind of steady stasis, without a lot of bullying. But yeah, new kids coming in. That's where you would see for me, from my recollection of growing up to that's where, you know, I remember that type of behavior coming out when, when you know, a new kid would come into the town,   Michael Hingson ** 06:31 was it mainly from the new kids or from the kids who are already there?   Fred Dummar ** 06:34 From the kids? Sometimes it was the integration, right? Some people integrate into new environments better than others. And you know, generally, no problems for those folks. But some, you know, it takes a bit more. And in a place like that, if you're you know, if you're seen as different, so you know to your theory on or your you know the topics you cover on diversity and inclusion. Sometimes when you're the one that that looks different or acts different in an environment like that, you definitely stick out, and then you become the target of of bullying.   Michael Hingson ** 07:10 What? What happens that changes that for a kid? Then, you know, so you're you're different or in one way or another. But what happens that gets kids accepted? Or do they?   Fred Dummar ** 07:21 Yeah, I don't know. I think, I think it's learning to embrace just who you are and doing your own thing. I think if you know, if you're trying to force yourself into an environment that doesn't want to accept you, I'm not sure that that's ever an easy battle for anyone. But just being yourself and doing your own thing. I think that's, that's the way to go, and that's certainly, you know, what I learned through my life was I wasn't one of the kids that planned on staying there and working in the mind, and I wasn't, you know, my family was, you know, at that point, my mom and dad owned the, the only grocery store in town, and I certainly wasn't going back to run the family business. So, you know, look, looking for a way, you know, for something else to do outside of that small town was certainly number one on my agenda, getting out of there. So being myself and and learning to adapt, or, as you know the saying goes, right, learning to be instead of being a fish in a small pond, learning to be a fish in a much larger pond,   Michael Hingson ** 08:27 yeah, well, and there's, there's a lot of growth that has to take place for that to occur, but it's understandable. So you graduated at 16, and then what did you do after   Fred Dummar ** 08:38 my uh, freshman year at college, which I funded by, you know, sort of Miss, Miss misleading people or lying about my age so that I could get a job at 16 and working construction and as an apprentice electrician. And that funded my my freshman year of college. But, you know, as as as my freshman year was dragging on, I was wondering, you know, hey, how I was going to continue to fund my, you know, continued universe my stay at the university, because I did not want to go, you know, back back back home, sort of defeated, defeated by that. So I started looking into various military branches of military service, and that's when it happened upon the National Guard, Nevada National Guard, and so I joined the National Guard. And right after, you know, I think it was five days after I turned 17, so as soon as I could, I signed up, and that summer after my freshman year, I left for training for the National Guard. Missed first semester of my sophomore year, but then came back and continued on with my university studies using, you know, my the educational benefits that came from being in the National Guard.   Michael Hingson ** 09:55 So you're in the National Guard, but that wasn't a full time thing, so you were able to go back and. Continue education. Yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 10:01 it was, you know, it's a typical one weekend a month, one weekend a month for duty. Typically, we would go in on a Friday night, spend Saturday and Sunday for duty. So we get a, you know, small check for that. And then we were also allowed to draw, you know, the GI Bill and the state of Nevada had a program at the time where you didn't get paid upfront for your classes, but at the end of every semester, you could take your final report card and for every class, for every credit that you had a C or higher, they would reimburse you. So yeah, so they were essentially paying my tuition, and then, you know, small stipend every month from the GI Bill. And then, you know, my National Guard check, so and in the 80s, you know, when I was going to school, that that was enough to keep, you know, define my education. And where did you go to school? At the University of Nevada in   Michael Hingson ** 10:59 Reno, in Reno, okay, yeah, so, so you kind of have ended up really liking Reno, huh?   Fred Dummar ** 11:07 Yeah, I, yeah. I became sort of home city. Obviously, no one would ever really know where. You know, if I would have mentioned that I grew up in a town called gaps, most people would, you know, not, not really understand. I sometimes, if they're, you know, press and say, hey, you know, where are you really? Because, you know, often say, Hey, I went to school in Reno. If they say, where did you grow up? I'll, you know, it's a longer conversation. I'll be like, okay, so if you put your finger, like, right in the middle of Nevada, in the absolute middle of nowhere, that's where I grew up.   Michael Hingson ** 11:40 Well, you know, people need to recognize and accept people for who they are, and that doesn't always happen, which is never fun, but Yeah, gotta do what you can do, yes, well, so Reno, on the other hand, is a is a much larger town, and probably you're, a whole lot more comfortable there than you than you were in Gabs, but that's okay. So yeah, so you went to the university. You got a bachelor's, yep, and then what did you do?   Fred Dummar ** 12:11 Yeah. Well, so along the way, while I was in the National Guard, you know, being a medic, right? I was convinced by a lieutenant that met me. I was actually doing the physical, because it was one of the things our section did when I was first in, you know, we gave the medical physicals, and this lieutenant said, you know, you should come transfer our unit. The unit was an infantry unit, and I became their only medic. And so that was much better than working in a medical section for a helicopter unit where I'd been and and the lieutenants, you know, said that I should consider joining ROTC, since I was already going to the university. So I did in my junior year, started the Reserve Officer Training Corps there at the University of Nevada. And so when I graduated college in the winter of 89 I accepted a commission into the army. So then a few months later, I was, I was off on my my Grand Army adventure,   Michael Hingson ** 13:11 alright, and then what did you do?   Fred Dummar ** 13:15 So, yeah, that was, you know, because it was an infantry Lieutenant went to Fort Benning, Georgia, and I believe now the army calls it fort Moore, but yeah, I trained there for about a year, doing all of the tasks necessary to become an infantry officer. And then I went down to Panama, when the US still had forces in the country of Panama. And I spent two and a half years down there was that past mariega, yeah, right after, because I had graduated from college in December of 89 while operation just caused to get rid of Noriega was happening. So year after my infantry training, I sort of ended up in Panama, and sort of as at the time, thinking it was bad luck, you know, because if you're in the army, you know, you want to, kind of want to go where things are happening. So I'm in Panama the year after the invasion, while Saddam Hussein is invading Kuwait, and everyone else is rushing to the desert, and I'm sitting in the jungle. So, you know, as a as a young person, you start to think, you know, oh, you know, hey, I'm missing. I'm missing the big war. I should be at the war, you know. So that was an interesting take, not what I would have now, but you know, as a young man,   Michael Hingson ** 14:31 what caused you to revise that view, though? Or time,   Fred Dummar ** 14:37 yeah, yeah. Just, just time. And, you know, later in life, you know, after, uh, serving combat rotations in Iraq and Afghanistan, I realized it wasn't something one needed to rush towards,   Michael Hingson ** 14:48 really quite so bad, where you were, yeah. So,   Fred Dummar ** 14:52 yeah, I spent a couple years in Panama, then I came back to Fort Benning, uh, Fort Moore, and worked at the Army's Airborne School. So. Uh, you know, the place that teaches people how to jump out of airplanes. And I did that for for a year. So it's, it's really fun because watching, you know, watching people go through the process of of training to jump out of an aircraft, and then sort of their very first time on an aircraft might takes off, and you can see the, you know, sort of the realization that they're not going to land with the plane for the first time in their life. You know, they're they're not going to be in the plane when it lands. That's always, you know, it's always a good time. And then, of course, when you know, then there's another realization, moment when the doors pop open right, and the doors, doors on the aircraft are opened so the jump masters can start making checks, you know, and out, yeah, and they're looking, you know, their eyes get larger and larger, you know, as as preparations for the jump. You know, when they're stood up and they're hooked up inside the aircraft, and then finally, you know, told to exit. Yeah, it's interesting. And during the time when I worked there, that's when I was eligible, because I was a senior lieutenant at that time, that I could apply to become a Green Beret. I could go through special forces training if I was selected. So I left from Fort Benning, I went up to Fort Bragg, now fort liberty, and went through the selection, Special Forces Assessment, selection, and was selected to become a Special Forces soldiers that I went to Fort Bragg, you know, spent the year or so becoming qualified to be a special forces team leader, and then the next I spent the next 20 years of my Army career in various units at at Fort liberty, and third Special Forces Group, Special Forces Command, seven Special Forces Group, Special Operations recruiting, just, you know, bouncing around in different assignments and then, but obviously during that time, 911, happened, and you know, was on the initial invasion in 2003 up in, up into the north. We were flying in from Romania, you know, before the war started. And so being there during that phase of the Iraq combat in Iraq, and then going to Afghanistan and and spending multiple, multiple tours and multiple years in Afghanistan. So, so   Michael Hingson ** 17:25 did you do much jumping out of airplanes?   Fred Dummar ** 17:29 Yeah, in combat, no. But over the years, yeah, I accumulated quite a few jumps. Because what, you know, every, every unit I was ever assigned to while I was in the army was always one that was, you know, airborne, which are, you know, the designation for units that jump out of airplanes. So   Michael Hingson ** 17:47 have to, yeah, yeah. Well, you're a pretty level headed kind of guy. What was it like the first time you jumped? I mean, you described what it looked like to other people. Do you think that was basically the same for you, or did you, yeah, kind of a thicker skin,   Fred Dummar ** 18:01 yeah, no, no, I think, I think that's why I was able to, you know, in large measure, that's how a lot of us are able to have empathy, right? If we've, if we've, if we've been through it, and we are able to access the memory of, okay, what was it like when I was doing it? It allows us to be, you know, more compassionate to the people that are going through it at that moment for the first time, but yeah, I can remember being in the plane, and then you know, that realization is like, hey, you know, in the pit of your stomach, I'm not, I'm not landing with this plane. And then, you know, the doors opening up, you're like, you know, kind of hey, those, I don't know what the gates of hell look like, but right now, that's that's in my mind, what, what they would look like, you know, and then going out the first time, and and then I think the second time might have been worse, because it was the anticipation of, oh, wait a minute, we're doing that again. And by the but if you do five jumps to qualify before you're given your parachute as badge, so I think by the third one, I'd come to terms with, with, with dealing and managing. You know, you know the fear of it, of leaving an airplane. And people you know often ask, you know when, when you're older and you're past the 100 jump mark, you know it's like, still, is there still fear and like, I think, I think, if there's not, I mean, then you know, there's probably something wrong with you, but, but it's not, it's nowhere near you know how it is when you know your First learning and your first learning to trust yourself and trust the equipment and trust the process. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 19:45 what you're learning a little bit along the way is to how to control fear. And you mentioned my book earlier, the one that's coming out live like a guide dog, which is all about trying to teach people to control fear, because we have so many things happen to. Us, or we think about so many things, that we develop so many fears consciously or not, that when something does unexpectedly happen to us, especially something that isn't necessarily a positive thing, we just automatically go into a fear reaction mode. And the the reality is it doesn't need to be that way you can learn to control fear, which is what we talk about in live like a guide dog, because it's important that people recognize you can learn to control fear. I would never say, Don't be afraid. Yeah, but I think you can learn to control fear, and by doing so, then you use that fear to help guide you and give you the the the the tools to really be able to move forward and focus. But most people don't really spend much time doing that. They don't learn introspection. They don't learn how to to slow down and analyze and develop that mind muscle so that later you can analyze incredibly quickly.   Fred Dummar ** 21:06 Yeah, we in the army, we call that stress inoculation, good description, you know, it's, you know, once you're, once you're, you've learned to deal with stress, or deal with, you know, stressful, fearful things. Then, you know, the next time you're you're better equipped. And that fear and that stress can be, you know, can be continually amped up. I used to laugh when I was doing Special Forces recruiting, because the you know, it would require a special physical for candidates to go get a special physical before they could come to training. And one of the boxes we would joke about was, I have no fear of heights or enclosed spaces. No everybody has those fears, is whether you can, you can manage those fears and deal with. You know, things are very uncomfortable. Well, that's   Michael Hingson ** 22:05 really it. It's all about managing. And so I'm sure that they want you to check no, that you don't have those fears when you're when you're going through. But at the same time, what you're hopefully really saying is you can manage it. Yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 22:20 that you can manage and that's why I was saying, that's why I would always laugh, because of course, everyone has those fears and but learning to deal with them and and how you deal with them, and that that's, you know, one of the things I discuss in one of the chapters of the book I'm writing is, is, you know when fear, when fear comes to You, you know, how do you deal with it and how do you overcome it? I think people are more and more recognizing you know that there are techniques through stress inoculation, you know, things like that. They'll teach you how you can overcome fear. And you know simple breathing techniques to you know, slow down your breathing and engage your brain, not just your brain stem, right? When you breathe, it fast, your brain stem is in charge, not your brain and yeah, and think your way through things, rather than just reacting as a, you know, as a frightened animal,   Michael Hingson ** 23:19 right? And it's one of the things that that, as I discuss in the book, and I talk to people about now a lot, that although I didn't realize it for many years, after September 11, I had developed a mindset on that day that said, You know what to do, because I had spent a lot of time learning what to do, how to deal with emergencies, what the rules were, and all that, and all of that just kicked in on September 11, which is as good as it could get.   Fred Dummar ** 23:45 Yeah. Well, Michael, you have a you have a distinct advantage. You had a distinct advantage a couple of them, but, but one being, you know, because you already live in a world without light in your sight, you're not dependent on that. And so another, when other people are, you know, in, you know, when I'm reading the book, I'm nodding my head knowingly, you know, as you're talking about being in the stairwell and other people being frightened, and you're just like, this is okay. This is an average, I mean, maybe unusual circumstances, but an average day for me,   Michael Hingson ** 24:21 yeah. But they side of it is, I know lots of blind people who would be just as much in fear as anyone else. It's the fact is, of course, we didn't know what was going on. Yes, September 11, a   Fred Dummar ** 24:35 bit of ignorance is bliss, right? Yeah. And   Michael Hingson ** 24:38 that was true for everyone. I had a great imagination. I could tell you that I imagine things that could happen that were a whole lot worse than in a sense, what did, but I, but I like science fiction and horror, so I learned how to imagine well, but the fact is that it isn't so much being blind that's an advantage, really. Really was the preparation. And so the result was that I had done that. And you know, of course, the airplane hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building. So the reality is going down the stairs. None of us knew what happened. We figured out an airplane hit the building because we started smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. But by the same token, that was all we knew. We didn't even know that tower two had been hit until, well, much later, when we got outside, colleagues saw David Frank, my colleague saw tower two was on fire, but we still didn't know what it was from. So yeah, the the fact is that blindness may or may not really be an advantage, but preparation certainly was, yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 25:43 how you reacted, how you reacted to being blind. Because, yeah, you can just, just like anything, right? You can react in in several different ways, and how you acted, how you built your life around,   Michael Hingson ** 25:54 sure. And most people, of course, just rely on reading signs. And so they also have the fear, what if I can't read the signs. What if there's smoke and all that? And again, they they build fears rather than doing the smart thing, which is just to learn what to do in the case of an emergency when you're in a building like that. But you know, it is part of what what we do talk about, and it is, it is pretty important that people start to learn a little bit more that they can control fear. I mean, we have in our in our whole world, politicians who just do nothing but promote fear, and that's unfortunate, because we all buy into it, rather than stepping back and go, Wait a minute. It doesn't need to be that way.   Fred Dummar ** 26:37 Yeah, I think the other thing, like you talked about your your preparation and training. And I always that was one of the way ways, or one of the things that brought me to ultra marathoning, you know, after my initial training in Special Forces, was, you know, if you're, if you're going to push your capacity to see, you know what you're what you're really capable of, or build, you know, build additional reserves. So, you know, if you are counted on to do something extraordinary or in extenuating circumstances, what do you really have, you know, yeah, how far can you really push yourself? And so it really brought me into the sport of ultra running, where, you know, the distances, or those distances that exceed a marathon. So a marathon being, you know, 26 miles, yeah. So the first ultra marathon is a 50k because, you know, Marathon is 42 so eight kilometers farther. And then the next, general, you know, length is 50 miles. And then there's some other, you know, 100k which is 62 miles. And then, kind of the, although, you know, now we see, see races longer, but kind of the the longest distance being 100 mile race and so, and the gold standard in 100 mile racing being, you know, for most, most courses, every course being different, but for most courses, is to finish under 24 hours, so within one one day, but to keep moving for one, you know, one entire day while, you know, while fueling yourself and and, and some people say, Well, you Know, wow, that pace doesn't seem that fast. Troy   Michael Hingson ** 28:22 yourself then and see, yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 28:24 and, like a lot of things, it doesn't, it doesn't exactly seem fast until you're factoring in, okay, but you're still gonna have to stop at some point to you, you know, relieve yourself, and you're gonna have to, you know, walk while you eat. And, you know, there's hills to climb and all these other sorts of obstacles. So, yeah, finishing under 24 hours is, you know, sort of the, you know, the standard, I guess, for the people want to achieve. And anyway, yeah, I became, for a bit there, became addicted to it. And then, so when I met Ivan, my friend, who you were talking about, who, who was, was blinded in in Iraq in 2006 when I met him, he had already been injured, and I realized that he really wanted to run marathons. He'd run one, and had to use, like, several different guides, right? You know, there were different people jumping in and out, and it really wasn't an ideal situation for him and he and he also needed someone who who wanted to do that, who would be a reliable training partner, right? Because it's not like, okay, you know, you might be able to find people that show up on marathon day. Want to run the marathon, or a few people, but, you know, day in, day out, to be training. And so I was like, Hey, this is one of those things that ends up in your path, right, that you can, maybe you can walk around it, but, but for me, when I, you know, when I saw. I was like, Okay, this was, this was something that, you know, for whatever reason, is on my path. I meant to do it. I meant to be the guy that does this. And so, yeah, we started training together. And, you know, ended up running 40 plus marathons together, you know, from London, Chicago, you know, every, every the Marine Corps Marathon, just everywhere. And, you know, summiting Mount Kilimanjaro and running with the bulls together. And then our last race was, it's often referred to as, you know, the world's toughest foot race. It's the marathon to Saab, and it's a, it's a distance race of 150 some miles across the Sahara Desert. And they break it up into stages. So on different days, some days, you run 30 miles. Some days, you know, 26 one day is a 50. I think we were at 53 miles on one of the days. But anyway, and you start the you start that race with whatever you're going to eat and whatever you're going to need, you know, in terms of gear on your back. And the only thing that's provided to you during the race is water. So, and that was our kind of, you know, he's like, I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to run, and so I just want to do that before I stop. I stopped, right? So, but anyway, yeah, so that was how I ended up meeting my friend Ivan, and, you know, over the course of a decade and a half, we did all of these, you know, what some people think are incredibly dumb things, but, you know, sort of embracing the discomfort of training and competing to, you know, to make ourselves better, you know? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 31:44 so while you were in the military, I know you mentioned earlier something about doing some work in as a medic. Did you do that most of your time? Were you specializing in that? Or what?   Fred Dummar ** 31:54 No, no, that was only when I early on, when I was a soldier, I was a medic, and then when I was commissioned, I was commissioned, I was commissioned as an infantry officer, and then, and then, when it became Special Forces, you know, the officer is, sort of has, has no specialty other than leading the team. The team has medics and weapons guys and engineers and communicators and all that. But, you know, the officers sort of assigned as the as the planning the planning agent, you know, the to lead the team, rather than have any of the specialties,   Michael Hingson ** 32:30 right? And you participated long enough that you rose to the rank of colonel. Yeah, yeah, my participation   Fred Dummar ** 32:38 trophy was attaining the rank of colonel. And I would often tell people the arm don't think the army doesn't have a sense of humor. I was promoted to Colonel on April 1, so April Fool's days when, when I was promoted? And yeah, and I, after almost 30 years in uniform, retired in 2015 so I don't know that I would have went that long. But you know, they're about the middle of my career, from 1986 to 2015 you know 911 happened, and for me, it wasn't, it wasn't really a choice to to leave. Then, you know, it was like, Okay, we, you know, we have to do this. These Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, my my very last, my last year in in uniform. I was in Afghanistan as an advisor to the Afghan commandos. And when I returned from that tour, you know, was told that, hey, I had to, I had to finally leave Fort Bragg after 20 years and and either go to, you know, the Pentagon or another headquarters. And that's when I decided to retire. Because it was like, okay, you know, if, if the wars don't need me anymore, then I, I can go home and do other things. Yeah, I can do other things. If the wars don't need me, you know, then I can probably hang it up. So   Michael Hingson ** 34:11 when did you get married? So   Fred Dummar ** 34:15 over the course of my Army career, I was divorced twice. Yeah, it's just not an easy No, it's not. It's just not an easy lifestyle. I'm not making any excuses for my own failings in that regard. But, you know, it is, it is, I think, easier to become emotionally detached from someone, especially, you know, as in my case, I think I often put the army, first, the army, my soldiers, the mission, you know, as the first on my mind. And you know, for someone else, you know that to be a pretty strong person, to sit in the back seat during that so. And I did not have any children and then, but after I retired, when went through my second and four. I met someone. And so, yeah, we were married in in 2020, and so I had a, I was able, you know, after not having children, my first son was born when I was 50. So I have a son who's, you know, four, four years old, four going on five. And then we decided that, you know, he should have someone to be with. So we were going to have a second child. And my wife had twins, so I have twin, three year old girls. So, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 35:37 you're going to do it. You might as well go all the way, huh?   Fred Dummar ** 35:40 Yeah, and and, and I haven't, and I adopted Rebecca's older, the child that she that she had. And so now we have four children, Alana being much older, she's already finished for freshman year at the University of Michigan, and this get ready to go back to Ann Arbor and continue her studies and and then we have, you know, the small pack of humans that are still here in their pre, pre kindergarten phase. So   Michael Hingson ** 36:10 she is a a Wolverine fan, and there will ever be an Ohio State Buckeye,   Fred Dummar ** 36:18 yeah, something like that. Yeah, that rivalry is pretty intense. And, you know, never being part of a school that was, you know, in that, in that division, you know, not really realizing, well, you know, watching college football, I kind of understand the rival, all the rivalries. But once she started going to Michigan, and, you know, attending a football game there myself. And then, unfortunately, you know, we were able to go to the Rose Bowl this year, which, you know, when Michigan played Alabama. So we were able to go to that together. So, yeah, it was, it's interesting to learn that dynamic. And like, I tell her, it's like, never, never take for granted being part of a big school like that without those sorts of traditions. Absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 37:06 Yeah, I went to UC Irvine, so we didn't really have a lot with with football, but my wife did her graduate work at USC, and I always like to listen to USC football games. I judge a lot about sports teams by the announcers they hire, I gotta say. And so we've been always so blessed out here in California, although I think that announcing isn't quite what it used to be, but we had good announcers that announced for USC out here on I think it was originally on Kx, and then it went to other stations. But anyway, when we got married, the wedding started late because a bunch of people were sitting out in their cars waiting for the end of the USC Notre Dame game. And so the wedding was 15 minutes late starting because everybody was waiting to see who was going to win the game. And I am quite pleased to say that we won, and God was on our side, as opposed to Notre Dame. And, yeah, the marriage lasted 40 years, so until she, she passed away in 2022 but I love to tell people that, you know, God clearly was on our side, especially when I tell that to my Notre Dame friends,   Fred Dummar ** 38:15 yeah, the touch touchdown, Jesus wasn't, wasn't there for them, not   Michael Hingson ** 38:19 that day. Yeah, but, but, you know, and there's college football is, is in a lot of ways, I just think so much more fun, or it has been than professional. But, you know, now a lot more money is getting into it, which is unfortunate too. Yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 38:37 I think that's caused some of the you know, teams re evaluate what they what they do happen, how they operate. And I think it's forced some of the older coaches to leave the game, yeah, because it's not the game they recognize, so not   Michael Hingson ** 38:53 what they had well. So you've been to a variety of different places. You've been a leader. And I think it's pretty clear that you really still are, but how did all the the different experiences, the different places that you went to, and all the the experiences that you participated in, how does that affect and shape your leadership style?   Fred Dummar ** 39:19 Yeah, Michael, you know, I think one of the first things, right, if you when your surface looking, and some people never go below the surface. So when you talk about things like diversity and inclusion, the things, the things that they will think about that make people divert diverse are not generally what I think about. Because, you know, when you look below the surface, you see a lot of commonalities in the human experience. You know, from my time living, living in Panama and operating in Central and South America, some countries in the in the you know, the Caribbean when I was first in special operations, and then. Obviously, I went and did some time in in Africa, some peacekeeping operations in Nigeria, some other exercises down in the south, southern countries in Africa, and then my time in Iraq and Afghanistan. People, you know, they're they come in different colors. They they have different their path to God or the universe or the higher power that they recognize that the cultural artifacts that they use may may look different, but you know, they're generally pointing if you if you can step aside from your own preconceived notions about things, you can see that they're they're just different signposts to the same God, right to the same, to the same, power to the same, to the same things, and people want the same things, you know, for their families, you know, for for security and prosperity, and you know that that sort of thing. So it's, that's where I, kind of, you know, came to my leadership philosophy, which is pretty easy to remember. It's just lead, lead with love. And you know, if you use, and I haven't tell people, doesn't really matter what denomination you are. If you read, you know, the Gospels of the New Testament purely as a leadership guide. You know it's, it's hard to find a a better leadership example than than what, what Jesus was was doing, you know, the way he was serving others the way he was leading. It's, it's, it's pretty powerful, pretty powerful stuff. And you know, even, even at the end, right during the Last Supper, when he tells people, you know, who, who's the most important is the most important person, the person sitting at the table getting ready to eat, or the person serving, you know. And of course, you as humans, you know, is based on our, you know, the way we think about the world. We think the most important person is, you know, not only the person sitting at the table, but the person at the nicest table, or the head of the table, and not the person serving. And so that was something I tried to embrace during my time in the military, and what I try and embrace now is, you know, being the person that serves others and using your position. You know, if you if, if and when you are promoted or asked to lead that, you approach it from a position of, you know, what? What can I do from this position to help other people and and just be compassionate to their actual circumstances. And that doesn't mean, you know, when people, people hear me say that they're, you know, they think, Well, that's pretty how does that reconcile with you being a Green Beret and being around, you know, a bunch of you know, meat eating savages, you know, how do you how do you reconcile that and like, well, leading with care and compassion doesn't mean you know that I'm coddling anyone, because I'm certainly not coddling anyone you know. You know, I demand high performance for myself and from from people in those positions like that. You know, when I was a member of a special forces organization, but not everybody's supposed to be doing that. And so I think recognizing the circumstances and the people and what the organization's supposed to do or and how it can care for people, I think those are things that became really, really important to me   Michael Hingson ** 43:33 well. And I think you raised some really valid points. The reality is that September 11, for example, was not a religious war, a religious event. It was a bunch of thugs who wanted to have their way with the world. But most people who truly practice the Islamic faith are the same as the rest of us, and they and they seek God just like we do, like Jewish people do and others do, and we've got to keep that in mind, but it's, it's so hard, because we mostly don't step back and evaluate that and realize that those 19 people on those four airplanes are just a bunch of thugs, pure and simple.   Fred Dummar ** 44:15 Yeah, that, yeah, that, and, and the organizations they represent, right? You know, they're, they're, they're, and they're not the only ones, right? People from of all faiths have harnessed, you know,   Michael Hingson ** 44:30 their various back to the Crusades, yeah, you know, you know, their   Fred Dummar ** 44:33 various religions have harnessed themselves up to, you know, to sway people to to hate, or to, you know, to engage in combat or whatever. So yeah, to to lump that all in. I think our, some of our responses, and then also some of the way people think, has really led it led us to a more a more divided we're. Well, then you know that are more inclusive and and you know, thinking of ourselves as one we we think of ourselves as, you know, many and different, and sometimes things that we think would bring us together or help us make things more fair, like, you know, talking about diversity and inclusion, if we aren't really thinking about what we're trying to do and what that looks like, we can end up making the world more divided and less inclusive.   Michael Hingson ** 45:34 And unfortunately, we're seeing way too much of that, and it isn't helping to do that. And hopefully at some point we'll, we'll figure that out, or we'll realize that maybe it's a little bit better, or can be a little bit better than we think. Yeah, and I know you in 2003 did a lot to help the Kurds in northern Iraq, right?   Fred Dummar ** 45:55 Yeah, that was primarily, you know, my, my experience in Iraq was, you know, before the 2003 invasion, I was in Romania with my special forces company. And, yeah, we flew into northern Iraq and linked up with a group of Kurds and from where they were at and primarily our mission, you know, at that point, nobody really knew what Saddam might do when the main offensive of, you know, conventional army, conventional Marine Corps, British, you know, other allies, started from the south towards Baghdad. What would Saddam do? Would he, you know, send his forces in the north against the Kurds to create a destabilizing effect, you know, one both killing Kurds, but causing Kurds to flee to Syria and Iran, and, you know, probably most importantly for people that were planning to Turkey, you know, to further destabilize the region. So obviously, out of a desire to protect, help protect the Kurds and help stop or prevent something like that from happening. You know, we went in a couple weeks before the actual ground war started, we were in place with the Kurds and started organizing them to to defend themselves. And do you know, take back the land that they considered theirs, because, after, you know, Desert Storm, the you know, the 90s, the 90s war against Iraq, Saddam had pushed into Kurdish territory and established, you know, what he referred to as a, you know, his, his buffer zone. And then, you know, the US had been forcing a, you know, a no fly zone up in the Kurdish areas, but the Kurds had still never been allowed to go back to some of the cities that they considered theirs. So, you know, when we got in there with them, we were able to get, you know, move currents that have been forced out of those towns moved back into their towns and and our particular sector we we cleared down to Mosul Iraq, which, you know, people in the Bible will recognize As as the city of Nineveh. Or maybe not know that, but yeah, so we were, I was able to go drive through the, you know, the biblical, the some of the remains of the, you know, city of Nineveh as we got to Mosul. And then once we were there, that was sort of when, you know, we stole the Kurdish allies that, hey, you guys can go back to go back home, and then at that point us, we're only there a few days before us conventional forces. Now this is a couple months into the war, but us conventional forces made their way up there, and, you know, started doing stabilizing the city, and it was probably best to get the Kurdish militia out of there at that point, for things between the Kurds and the Arabs continue to deteriorate. So yeah, but it was a it was a great experience for me being with the Kurds and helping them, you know, sort of move through and retake towns that they had historically lived in. And, you know, along the way we passed and were able to clear Assyrian monastery that's on one of the mountains on the route to Mosul. So some, definitely, some history along the way, history lessons along the way. I   Michael Hingson ** 49:38 had the pleasure of going to Israel last year in August, okay? And spent a day in Jerusalem, so we got to go to the Western Wall and so on. And I really appreciated, and do appreciate, the history and just the awesomeness of of being there and touching the the temple and the wall that's been there for so long. And, you know, there is so much history over there that I really wish people would more appreciate and and on all sides, would figure out how they could become better at working with each other. One of these days, there's going to have to be peace, or it's going to really get a whole lot worse, very quickly,   Fred Dummar ** 50:21 yeah, for sure. Yeah, it was. It was interesting, though, when we were there, obviously watching the various groups of, you know, Syrians, Kurds, Arabs and others that had various claims to different parts of Mosul and different parts of the area around it. So it's fascinating, you know, to watch history try and unwind itself from some of the decisions that were made. You know, post World War Two, when lines were being drawn in the desert to create countries and and the ramifications of that? Yeah. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 51:06 you certainly have a perspective that's built on a lot of knowledge and being there, which I think is great on the other hand, well, not on the other hand. But then you left the military that that had to be a major change in terms of what you had been doing and what you were used to after almost 30 years. What's it like when you decide to make that kind of a major change and then, in your case, go back into civilian life? Yeah. So   Fred Dummar ** 51:38 my first, my first step, wasn't that far away from the military. And I started referring it. Referred to my first job as sort of an addiction clinic, because I went, I went to work as a house, yeah, I went to work as a contractor, or, you know, defense contractor. I went back to Afghanistan for about a year and a half running training programs for some of the Afghan special operations forces. So, you know, it was, it was really, you know, there was, if I, if I was a heroin addict, you know, I was in the methadone clinic, you know, trying to, trying to get off of it. And then, yeah, I realized, you know, kind of needed to go home. And my marriage, you know, dissolved, and so it's like, Hey, I probably time to, like, go home and have, you know, a different kind of life. And I moved into a civilian job with a friend, a friend at the time, who was doing investment training around the world. And he's like, Hey, we, you know, I know you're, you will travel. There's a lot of people that, when I talk to him about travel, it's involved with our business, you know, they don't, don't really want to do that. And he's like, but I know, you know, from where you're at. And he's like, hey, I'll buy, buy a ticket. Fly to Hong Kong, see what our business is about. So I went there and learned about the investment training they were doing in Hong Kong and throughout Southeast Asia. And then they had an office in Johannesburg, and, you know, one in London, Canada and the US and doing all this training. And so for about a year, little over a year, I worked in that business and and learned, you know, the various things that they were doing. You know how they were teaching people to invest in real estate and stocks and that sort of thing. Started doing it myself less, as I wish I would have known earlier in my life, but started doing that, and then when I left that company, that's a lot of what I've been doing. I've taken some smaller jobs and smaller contract projects. But by and large, that's basically what I've been doing since then, is, you know, working in real estate investing or real estate projects   Michael Hingson ** 53:50 and continuing to hone your leadership skills. Yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 53:54 yeah. Well, you know, I kept continue to work with or a couple of, you know, jobs where I was helping people start up businesses, you know, as either in CEO role or in an operations role to help help them start their businesses. So I did some of that which, which is always fun. It's great working with new talent and establishing procedures and helping people grow that way. So that was, that was really fun. And then got to be part of a couple of nonprofits, Special Forces, Charitable Trust, probably my longest stint. I did that for, you know, about seven or eight years on the board of directors, you know, running, helping to develop activities and programs to support our Special Forces veteran. So, yeah, it was, it's been, it's been fun. And then obviously having a new family and spending a lot of time in my role as a dad has been probably the most rewarding.   Michael Hingson ** 54:53 Yeah, I bet. And that is, that's always so much fun, and you get to help bring some. New people along into the world and hopefully help to make a difference that way. And on top of that, you continue to study. You're getting a PhD. You mentioned it earlier, but you're getting a PhD in organizational psychology and leadership. There we go with the leadership again.   Fred Dummar ** 55:14 Yeah, you know, it's, it's fun, because, you know, when I do get the opportunity to speak at events. I move around and speak at different events. I know you do a lot of speaking. You probably do much more than I do, but the events I do speak at, I want to make sure that sometimes being a practitioner of something doesn't always mean that you have the exact language or the academic credentials to go along with being a practitioner. And I've been a practitioner of leadership for so many years, but now studying it and applying, you know, one working towards an academic credential in this says, Hey, this, this guy knows what he's talking about. But then also having, you know, the the latest developments. And studies on leading people effectively and and how people are doing it wrong, and how you can help them. I think it's, it's been, it's been, been a great journey to be on as well, especially keeping my mind active in in all things leadership and helping organizations do it better.   Michael Hingson ** 56:21 Well, you, you have been a leader for a long time, but now you're studying it. Would you say that you're also discovering new things along the way? And you know, I guess what I'm getting at is, of course, none of us are ever so much an expert that we can't afford to learn more things. Oh   Fred Dummar ** 56:39 yeah, for sure, both, both learning new things, learning why I might have done things wrong based on, you know, studies, you know, like, okay, you know, if you if you have this type of personality, you might do this wrong, or things I was doing right, but not exactly, knowing all of, You know all of the mechanisms that were going into why I was making that decision. But you know, when you look at the psychology behind it, and you look at organizational structure structures, you look at cultural artifacts within organizations, then you can start to you start to unwind why teams do what they do, why leaders are developed, the way they're developed, and why people make certain decisions. And, yeah, it's been fascinating, you know, and then also looking back, as you said, back at things that you did, decisions that you made, and what you know, what you could have done better as you as you look that, through that, and how you can help someone else, and that's also really helped me further, you know, synthesize down this way that I look at at leading people with with love and compassion and why it's so important to be that servant type of leader, you know, not just a transformational leader that's trying to transform an organization to move that, but then, you know, how do you serve and care for the care for the people that are that are going to be part of that transformation?   Michael Hingson ** 58:10 Yeah, because if you are just looking at it from the standpoint of being a transformational leader, I'm going to change this organization that that doesn't really work. And I think that the most important aspect is being a servant leader, is being a person who serves, because that also opens you up to learning along the way and learning how to serve better.   Fred Dummar ** 58:34 Yeah. And you know, as I learned in the many organizations that I was part of over, you know, my time in Special Forces is, you know, just because, you know, alluding, you know, we were discussing roles, and I was saying, you know, this officer's role to often, to plan and to lead, but that other people are the experts. And that's something you know. The sooner you embrace that fact, the faster, the faster you become effective, and the more effective you are when you realize that understanding the people and and caring and serving them, and then getting their their best performance and understanding what they know and what they can do, and where you need to put them to maximize their potential, then those things start to become the most important thing that you're doing, how you know, how people play against each other, who works well with who? How that works, how that betters the organization. Those are all, all all things that are fascinating, you know, to me, and things that kept me up at night, trying to figure out, you know, how to how to be more efficient, how to take better care of people, while, you know, getting, not only getting the best out of them, but them, realizing they were giving their best and being happy and proud of what they. Were doing   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:01 and getting the best out of you as well.   Fred Dummar ** 1:00:03 Yeah, yeah, that, yeah, bringing the best out of them is bringing the best out of me, right?   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:08 So you've gotten work also in the nonprofit sector. You're continuing to do that, yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 1:00:13 yeah, yeah. Now, after leaving this Special Forces Charitable Trust, I realized, you know, after I'd moved out to Idaho, where I live now that I wasn't as connected to the regiment as I'd been my first retired and I was still kind of in the North Carolina area or but after moving out here, you know, just felt like that. I probably there were other guys more recently retired, knew more of the things that needed to be done. So stepping down from that organization. And then, obviously, one of the other things that happened was, you know, the the rapid withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan and the fall of Afghanistan, and I found myself with many other Afghan veterans, sort of, you know, both wondering, you know what it all meant, why? You know, and then, but then also what we can do. You know, not dwelling too long. I know, you know, poor me. You know what? You know. Why did I go? What did it mean? But more so, hey, you know, we had a bunch of people that we made promises to, a bunch of people that follow alongside America, some certainly, you know, in the interest of Afghanistan. But there were also many, many of the especially on the Afghan Special Operations sides, that were not always necessarily doing things at the behest of the Afghan government, but operating with US forces on things that the US wanted to do, but then, you know, we're sort of left hanging when during the withdrawal. So, you know, working alongside other veterans to try and get as many of those people out during the withdrawal and then. But so now I work with an operation or a organization called Operation recovery that is still following these families, following these cases, people that are either still in Afghanistan, some in hiding, some in other countries, illegally, but trying to help them resolve visa issues and either get to Canada or the United States or someplace in Europe, just someplace safe for them and their family, away from the from the Taliban. And so that's been it, and it's, it's hard work, you know, because the in work like that, we're trying to make government bureaucracies realize that they should be issuing visas or allowing people to move, it's not always a rapid process. So feels like, and, you know, and I'm not pointing fingers as if anyone should still, you know, be completely focused on Afghanistan. But you know, other things happen. You know, Ukraine, the war in Ukraine draws attention away. You know, the war in Israel. You know, hurricanes, storms, everything that's going on. You know, Assassination comes. You know, assassination attempts, you know, all of that stuff diverts people's you know, draws people attend. You know their attention to that. And I'm not sure many people, you know, they support the troops. And you know, you often hear them, you know, you know, thanking troops for their service. And the only response I can have to that, you know, for for for years, I struggled with how to respond to that. When someone would say, Thank you for your service, you know, just Okay, thank you. You know, I don't know, thanks for your support, but you know, I heard a good response, and I've been using it since, and it's like, America's worth it. So,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:54 yeah, on top of everything else that you do, you've also been dabbling or going into real estate a little bit, yeah,   Fred Dummar ** 1:04:01 yeah. So that's, that's a lot of what I've been doing, you know, for because, you know, providing for your family, right? So, yeah, I started doing some investment real estate, and out here, got a partner, we did, worked on a couple of mobile home parts, larger projects. And I still, once a week, I still teach a clas

Send us a note.There are several John's mentioned in the Bible. Each John mentioned is doing his own thing. Some of them we don't think much about as we read the Bible of may think the John we are reading about is the same John we always read about.  Names are often reused in the Bible.  John had a lot to write of great importance even though many may have missed it while passive reading.  Listen, Learn, and Apply.Support the showYou may have given the world and it's ways 100% of your time. Now, if that has not worked out for you give Jesus 4-6 month commitment and see what he does in your life!! Come to Jesus @inntohisword238

From moving to Mexico as a teenager to play for the Xolos academy to making his MLS breakthrough with Sporting Kansas City, it was never a straightforward path to the pro ranks for Robert Castellanos. Now a free agent with multiple options in front of him as he's proven his value on the pitch, Caste joins the crew to discuss the lessons he's learned, the adversity he's faced, and how that's prepared him for whatever lies ahead. In addition, he touches on his Rooted foundation, which is providing youth players in Palmdale and the Antelope Valley with proper infrastructure to develop their talents. Timestamps (01:50) Growing up in Palmdale and going to Mexico with Xolos' academy (20:10) Going to Atlas and getting advice from first team veterans (33:17) The funniest trash talk he's ever heard (37:51) The difficulties of coming back to the US after his time in Mexico (50:50) His Rooted foundation and giving back to the community he grew up in Cast Hosts: Ramsey Abushahla, Julio Monterroza, & Brigitte Flores Producer: Roy Cho Subscribe to our newsletter for more interviews and latest news on street football, freestyle, and urban culture, read more about soccer culture on our website, and follow us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Facebook.

We had Peggy Chong as a guest in episode five of Unstoppable Mindset back in October of 2021. Peggy spends a great deal of her time researching blind people, she calls them her blind ancestors, to learn and write about their histories. For example, did you know that five blind people in the 1930s served as congressmen or U.S. senators? True. Did you know that the typewriter was invented for a blind countess? Did you know that it was a blind person who invented automobile cruise control?   Peggy will talk about all these stories and others. Recently she spent two weeks at the library of Congress researching one project that she will discuss. Spoiler alert: we don't get to hear the end of the story as Peggy has more research to do and more documents to uncover. However, the story she tells us this time is intriguing and spellbinding. So join me on a journey to learn more about the history of blind people and learn why you should even thank blind people for some of the inventions you take for granted today.       About the Guest:   Peggy Chong's first book in print, Don Mahoney: Blind Television Star is on the shelves at many book sellers.  She writes and lectures as The Blind History Lady.  Her infatuation with stories she heard of those she now calls her “Blind Ancestors” surprised and inspired her to learn more, for herself at first and then bring their light to the world.  Peggy researches their stories and brings to life the REAL struggles of what it was and is still, to be a blind person in the United States.   Her works have been published in _The Iowa History Journal, Dialogue Magazine, The Farmington Daily Times, The Braille Monitor and Future Reflections. _ Each month she sends to her email followers another story of a blind ancestor to inspire blind and sighted alike.   Currently, Peggy Chong chairs the Preservation of Historical Documents for the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado, to save the single-source files, records, news clippings and correspondence of the blind of Colorado dating back to 1915.   She has been an active part of the blind community for more than forty years.  Determined to imbue the service delivery system for the blind with a more positive and forward-looking philosophy, Peggy joined with other blind people in Minneapolis, Minnesota to establish Blindness: Learning in New Dimensions (BLIND, Inc.), a training center for the blind designed to encourage its students to achieve self-sufficient and productive lives.  In 1985, Peggy Chong accepted the position of President of the Board of BLIND, Inc., a position she held for ten years.  During that time, she worked with many students of all ages and varying levels of vision, encouraging them to learn the alternative nonvisual techniques of blindness and fueling their imaginations to dream of a life where each of them could live and work in their communities on a basis of equality with their sighted peers.  She also helped many of them to make intelligent decisions about their vision--when it would be helpful and when it would hinder progress toward independence.   After moving to Baltimore Maryland in 1997, Peggy secured a position with BISM as an outreach/instructor.  In 1998, Peggy left BISM accepting a position with the Job Opportunities for the Blind program at the National Center for the Blind in Baltimore, Maryland.  For more than a year, she led a succession of intensive two-week training sessions designed to teach computer and other important job-readiness skills to blind individuals seeking employment.  She also worked individually with each job candidate to refine the job search according to the unique needs of each, and she worked with numerous employers to ensure that the characteristic of blindness was accurately perceived and the blind job applicant treated fairly.  When a job was offered to any of her students, she provided assistance before  and after securing the job to ensure that each of them had the tools needed to succeed in the new position.  Sometimes this involved connecting her student with other blind persons doing that same job somewhere in the United States.  At other times, she provided information and advice about new, non-traditional techniques that could be used to perform the job successfully.   Later, Peggy served for three years as the National Program Manager for NFB-NEWSLINE®, out of the Baltimore MD offices.  In this position, she formed valuable relationships with national and local newspapers, community-based service delivery organizations and rehabilitation programs, and literally thousands of blind men and women--many of them newly-blind--across the country.   After moving to Iowa in 2002, she became a private contractor providing consulting services and employment training to governmental agencies and nonprofit organizations.  Her work involved the dissemination of job-search, résumé creation and distribution services designed to help individuals--with or without disabilities--to secure competitive employment.  She also taught independent travel to the Blind.  She also served as the NFB-NEWSLINE Coordinator for the state of Iowa for several years.   For more than forty years, Peggy has been active in a variety of community organizations: the National Federation of the Blind, the American Cancer society, the Hawthorn Area Community Council, the Cooperating Fund Drive, Iowa and Albuquerque Genealogical Societies, Friends of the Iowa Library for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, The Friends of the Colorado Talking Book Library, State Rehabilitation Council for the Commission for the Blind of New Mexico, board member-ADA Advisory Committee for the City of Albuquerque Iowa Shares and Oasis of Albuquerque.    Ways to connect with Peggy:   Website: theblindhistorylady.com   Email: theblindhistorylady@gmail.com       About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 00:16 Hi. I'm Michael Hinkson, Chief vision Officer for accessibe and the author of the number one New York Times best selling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast. As we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion, unacceptance and our resistance to change, we will discover the idea that no matter the situation or the people we encounter, our own fears and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The Unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessibe. That's a C, C, E, S, S, I, capital, B, E, visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities and to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025 glad you dropped by, we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hello and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. We get to do a lot of all of that today. So it's kind of fun. In October of 2021 I had the honor and pleasure to interview well, let me rephrase that, talk with Peggy Chong, known as the blind history lady. Maybe it was a little bit more of an interview then, but we have really reshaped unstoppable mindset to be a conversation and not an interview. So it does get to be something where we get to talk with each other and ask each other questions and whatever else makes sense to do. Well, Peggy wrote a story about blind lady, and the story was published recently, and she did what she always does, she sends it to anyone on her mailing list. And I'm fortunate enough to be on it and read it, and I suddenly realized it has been two and a half years since we had Peggy on, and that has to change. So Peggy, welcome on to unstoppable mindset. Welcome   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. We get to do a lot of all of that today. So it's kind of fun. In October of 2021 I had the honor and pleasure to interview well, let me rephrase that, talk with Peggy Chong, known as the blind history lady. Maybe it was a little bit more of an interview then, but we have really reshaped unstoppable mindset to be a conversation and not an interview. So it does get to be something where we get to talk with each other and ask each other questions and whatever else makes sense to do. Well, Peggy wrote a story about blind lady, and the story was published recently, and she did what she always does, she sends it to anyone on her mailing list. And I'm fortunate enough to be on it and read it, and I suddenly realized it has been two and a half years since we had Peggy on, and that has to change. So Peggy, welcome on to unstoppable mindset. Welcome   Peggy Chong ** 02:22 to me. Yes, that's I was really surprised it had been two and a half years. So thanks for having me back.   Michael Hingson ** 02:29 Well anytime. So Peggy is known as the blind history lady because she specifically researches information about blind people, and she really researches their lives and then tells people about them, and we'll dig into a lot of that, but why don't we start? Maybe it'll be a little bit of redoing of what we did. Tell us about the early Peggy growing up.   Peggy Chong ** 02:52 Well, I grew up in a family where my mother was blind, and I have three blind siblings out of a family of five kids. So there's four of us, and my mother had gone to the North Dakota School for the Blind, so she was not eager to send her children to the School for the Blind at all. She wanted us to go to public school. So we well. She did not like the idea of being so far away from her family. She felt that it really there were some family dynamics that go in to that as well. But basically, she went up there in the end of August, early September, many times came home for Christmas, but not always, and then she went home the end of May. So she was really only with her family, mostly in the summers.   Michael Hingson ** 03:53 I remember when I was growing up and we moved to California from Chicago, and my parents had really heated arguments with the school district in Palmdale because they said I shouldn't go to school there. I should go to the school for the blind, which at that point was in well, and still is in Northern California. It hadn't relocated to Fremont, I don't think, yet, but they wanted me to go there, and my parents said, No, he's going to grow up and go to regular public schools. And it was a huge battle. Well, my parents won, but I suspect it was for probably a lot of the same reasons why your mom didn't want you guys to go.   Peggy Chong ** 04:35 Well, my mom came from a town of 400 people, so the public school there. First of all, if she had gone to public school, most kids didn't get past the eighth grade, you know, they went to work on the farms, and I think she would have not been able to get a lot of material in any kind of a format at a. All her ophthalmologist when she was six years old, wrote in her record that she needed to go to the school for the blind and to learn to read and write in braille, which I thought was amazing, yeah, for a doctor to say that at that time,   Michael Hingson ** 05:17 yeah, the doctors told my parents to send me off to a home, because no blind child could ever grow up to amount to anything or be useful at all, and all I would do would be to destroy the family dynamic and but you know, the other side of it is, as we know, you and I, places like the School for the Blind in California really did teach a lot. They were at that time. I think Newell Perry was, was still, still there. You know, Tim Brook had been one of his students, and they did teach a lot of the right stuff, along with providing the right material. But still, was a question of whether that's where you really wanted to be sent to or have your child sent to.   Peggy Chong ** 06:01 You know, one of the interesting things that has changed a lot of my thinking, doing this whole history dive that I have been doing, when I graduated from public school, I didn't really feel like a part of my class, but I thought I had gotten a better education, and at that time, the schools for the blind were changing. More kids were getting into the public schools who were more academic, and the schools for the blind were receiving more of the students who were not academic. So the kids that were graduating from the school for the blind about the same time, I were not always, you know, job ready. They weren't going to do much afterwards. And so my impression at that time was that that's what happens when you go to the school for the blind, not understanding the dynamics that the whole education system was going through and so on. But I look back at some of these people that I've researched, and they talk about how in the farming communities, which many of them came from, because our communities were fairly small, they went to the School of the blind, and they they fit in. They had they had peers at their level. Everything was in enough format. They could read mostly, or it the accommodations were being made for them. They competed in sports. They got involved in some of the community activities in the towns where the schools for the blind were so that they were connected with the community, and they seem to have not all of them. Of course, you you don't always want to tire everybody with the same brush, so to speak, but you don't you see more of a population of kids who had more self confidence, who had more of an idea of what they were going to do as a blind person after leaving the school, as opposed to the public school kids who were exposed to a lot of things, but if they didn't get in with the group, if they didn't get a chance to really participate if they were just sitting on the sidelines. They left the public school system, and they didn't go to college, necessarily. They didn't go to work, they went back to the family home. So when I graduated from high school, I thought a public school education was the best thing for a blind child. I'm not at that time, but I'm not so sure that that's really the case. I think you have to look at the child, the family situation, the school situation. Is the public school gonna provide a good, positive, supportive, learning structure and of course, always happen.   Michael Hingson ** 09:05 Of course, yeah, it still doesn't always happen, although, of course, there is a lot more material and there are a lot of tools available now that even when you and I graduated, were not available and students should be able to get a better public education, but the other part about it is the whole social acceptance and like you, I think I was really mostly on the sidelines. I was active in the science club and a couple things, but really not involved in a lot of the social organization of the schools, and that went all the way through high school, but I did at least have access to Braille books and Braille material, and I had parents who were vehemently in favor of me working to be a. A good student in the school, and they gave me every opportunity that I could. And outside of school, I was in the boy scouts, and so I did have other activities, and again, that was encouraged, and I was very fortunate for the most part. We dealt with scout leaders who encouraged it as well, probably because they had conversations from my parents, or with my parents, who said, look and and gave them an education so but it worked out pretty well. My dad was involved in Scouting as well. But I hear what you're saying, and I think that the schools for the blind, as near as I can tell today, have receded even further and are not really as much focused on the academics of students who are blind, but now they're dealing with multi handicap situations and other things that make it even more of a challenge for them.   Peggy Chong ** 10:50 Yeah, but I do think that you're right. Parents make a big difference. Family Support makes a huge difference. Yes,   Michael Hingson ** 10:59 yeah. Yeah. And the parents really do make all the difference, if they're willing to, as I describe it, be risk takers in that they let us explore, they let us do things. I'm sure they monitor us, but they allowed us to explore. They allowed us to learn about the world, and they knew instinctively that's what they needed to do, just like they would do it with any other kid.   Peggy Chong ** 11:26 Yeah, my parents let us ride bicycles. Yep, which I know that my mother, she did not feel confident enough to ride a bicycle, but as kids, wanted to and and she was, she was gonna just let it happen. And we had a few bike accidents. But, yeah, so does my sighted sister,   Michael Hingson ** 11:49 yeah. I mean, everybody does. So there's nothing, nothing new there. And eventually we bought a tandem bike so my brother and I could deliver newspapers together, and then that worked out pretty well, but I had my own bike and rode it around the neighborhood, wrote it to school for the first three years, and then transferred to a school across town, because there was a resource teacher at who was based at that school, and the resource teacher was the teacher who would work with the blind kids, so I had a period with her every day. And I learned braille in kindergarten in Chicago, but after Chicago, I didn't have access to it for three years, so I had to relearn it, which I did. But you know, things happen. Yeah, they do. So what'd you do after high school?   Peggy Chong ** 12:45 Well, after high school, I met this guy and got married. I thought about going to college, but I was I wasn't quite ready for college. I didn't really think that I was academically ready, so I went to work, and worked as a librarian assistant for two years, and then when our daughter came along, then I quit, became a stay at home mom, and got active in the National Federation of the Blind. I got active in tiny tots, you know, because my daughter went to tiny tots and US mom sat around and exchanged coupons and everything like that. While they were in there.   Michael Hingson ** 13:27 Did you exchange your share of coupons? Oh, yeah,   Peggy Chong ** 13:31 I tried to call my dog food coupons for the things that I needed, like milk or diapers or whatever. And   Michael Hingson ** 13:39 we should say that this guy you got married to, I'm sorry you have to put up with him all these years, but, but his name is Curtis Chung and Curtis has also appeared on unstoppable mindset, but we probably have to get him back on too, because there's lots to discuss.   Peggy Chong ** 13:55 Yeah, we were just discussing actually riding bikes when he was a kid, because his father let him explore and get hurt. His mother was not inclined to do that, and so his dad took a lot of heat, because Curtis would ride around on his three wheeler and crash into the wall or roll out in the street or whatever, but   Michael Hingson ** 14:21 Curtis has to learn to listen.   Peggy Chong ** 14:24 I don't think that's gonna happen.   Michael Hingson ** 14:29 He's not nearby, is he? Oh,   Peggy Chong ** 14:35 catch it on the podcast. Oh, he   Michael Hingson ** 14:36 will. But, but still, but, but even so, he did get to explore, which is, you know, what's really important? And I think that the blind people who have the most confidence or who are the most outgoing are the ones who were really given those opportunities by their parents. I believe. So, yeah, sure. So you didn't go to college, you You did other things, which is cool, and exchanged coupons. I've never been much of a coupon collector, and even with online coupons, I don't do nearly as much of that as I probably should.   Peggy Chong ** 15:14 Well, I don't do that anymore either,   Michael Hingson ** 15:15 but Instacart is our friend. Yeah, that's true. I did   Peggy Chong ** 15:19 go back to college for a while, and it actually was a really big boost in my self esteem, because I went back to college thinking, I've got to start over. Got to start from scratch. And so I took the basic courses that you take when you're a freshman, and I aced them, and I was, I was quite surprised at myself, so it gave me, it gave me a lot more confidence in myself to go ahead and try new things. I got out more into the community, joined the neighborhood group. I wrote letters, wrote articles for newsletters, and really start to come into myself, probably when my daughter was about 10.   Michael Hingson ** 16:10 And she's surprised how much you've learned over the years, right?   Peggy Chong ** 16:13 Well, I was pretty dumb there between her 18th and 21st year, but I got pretty smart after that. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. And since she's 45 now, you know, I've been smart for a while. What a relief. No kidding, I feel very lucky when I look at the relationships that I read about in all these families that I research, and the dynamics of the families and how kids don't get along, and they never spoke to their parents after they were 22 or whatever. And I think, gee, you know, I got my fighting with my daughter all done by the time she was 21 now we're friends, so that's good,   Michael Hingson ** 16:52 yeah, which works out. So when did you start getting interested in this whole business of researching blind ancestors and learning about the history of blind people.   Peggy Chong ** 17:05 Well, that actually started in my 20s. The NFB of Minnesota owned a home for the blind, and we decided that it was it was past its time. We did not need segregated housing for blind people, so we were going to sell the property. That meant you had to clean out the building. And there was a lot of stuff in there, and they had kept the National Federation of the Blind of Minnesota, started as the Minnesota State organization of the blind, and in 1920 so they had some correspondence going back to 1919 and they kept everything. I mean, it was really cool. I was given the job of going through all of the boxes and file cabinets and getting rid of stuff, because we were going from this three story building to 1000 square feet office, and has to all fit, so everything had to go into one file cabinet, and I'm and they gave me the job because I had grown up in The blank community, and as a kid, I had known the people from North Dakota and Minnesota who were the blind newspaper dealers, the blind rug weavers, the blind door to door salesmen, the blind janitors. And they thought I would recognize people more than the rest of them would. So I'm going through stuff and pitching and pitching and pitching all this stuff into the trash. Every so often I stopped to read something, and one of the letters that I read was from the early 20s, from one of the board members to another one, describing their meeting with our blind state congressman, our blind US congressman, excuse me, and of course, they don't tell who it is. I didn't know there was a blind congressman, so I put that aside, and I started to pay more and more attention, so that blind Congressman became my first, what I call ancestor. I kept information that I had found here and there, kept those letters and put them in a box, and I went after who, what turned out to be Thomas David Shaw, who was the blind congressman who was working on a bill called the Robbins bill that would have been kind of a rehabilitation bill, putting some things together that would be similar to what our Randolph Shepherd vendor program is today. That bill didn't go anywhere. Um. But he then became a US senator, and he was one of two blind senators in the US Senate in the 1930s the other being Thomas prior gore. Thomas Shaw was killed by a hit and run driver just before Christmas of 1935 and he's a great ancestor to start with, because he had all this mystery around him, and you just had to know. So the driver of the car got out after he driven about a half a block and yelled back, well, he shouldn't have been in the street anyway. Now he was with his cited aid him one of his legislative aides, who was also hit and seriously hurt but but did survive that aid wrote a book about 20 some years later, as did the daughter of a newspaper man from Minneapolis who was killed in the very same way two weeks before Shaw was killed, and that newspaper reporter moved into this apartment a couple of weeks before he was hit by a car out of Thomas Shaw's house in Minneapolis because he was being harassed for the article He was working on about the mafia infiltrating the Democratic Party, and Shaw was helping him with this article. And so Shaw's family believed, as did the daughter who wrote the book about her dad, the reporter, as did the person who was with him that day, they all said that, you know, it was a he was deliberately hit, a man who hit him, he was deliberately hit because, if you talk to his grandson or his daughter in law, that they they believe it was a contract hit. But the man who hit him, who was unemployed. This was, you know, the middle of the Depression. He was unemployed, and all of a sudden, couple of years later, he has a brand new house that's paid for. He has no job. His children are in private school. They go on to college. He has no job. Where'd the money come from? Everybody wanted to know, and it was so he was somebody who I researched a lot, and that's before computers, and that was before you had an opportunity to go online, and before things were digitized. So you had to always go someplace and have somebody look it up for you. And a lot of times I would call and I would say, Well, can you read it to me over the phone? I didn't tell them I couldn't read it myself. I just asked them to read it. And I was surprised how many times people did read it, read articles to me, read them, the collection information to me, and so on. So he was my first ancestor. And because he was probably somebody I researched for good 30 years, I kind of got that in my blood, and then in about 2000 I decided I was going to do my family tree ancestry.com. Had just gotten started, and I thought, well, you know, why not? Keeps me busy for the winter. That is, it's it is worse addiction than chocolate or coke. I am here to tell you. I have been a subscriber of ancestor.com for a long time, and by and large, things are fairly accessible with that, unless you want to read the original document, because things were mostly handwritten, and these are scanned images, pictures of the originals and so on. But I'm surprised how many people are transcribing for their family trees, the information, the articles, the pieces from the books. So sometimes I get into things and it's already transcribed for me, I'm really kind of impressed   Michael Hingson ** 24:17 that works out very well.   Peggy Chong ** 24:18 I think so. So I was one who didn't like history in school because it didn't apply to me. And the few things that I had saved from Minnesota, you know, that applied to me because that was an organization I belonged to, and some of the people I had known. So I started with some of them because it applied to me. But once I really got into the family history, I just really got the bug. And when I would stall out on my family, I'd reach into now this collection that was more than a box or two of stuff that I have been collecting. And. Say, Well, I wonder what I can find about this person. Wonder what I can find about that person. And I took all these classes on how to research through the genealogical societies, several of them, and because it was when computers were not really used for genealogical research, they gave me a lot of information on the techniques that they use so they don't have to travel. And I used all of those techniques, and a lot of them are very great techniques that a blind person can use because for a $15 donation to this Genealogical Society, or this History Society, or this public library, there's some volunteer that's just willing to dig into something and find out what it is I want to know, and then they'll send me a nice email back, or a bunch of papers in the mail that I'll have to scan. But it's been really interesting to find out how easy it has been to dig into a lot of these old documents with the help of other people who have no idea that I'm blind at all,   Michael Hingson ** 26:13 which, which is, of course, part of the issue. They don't even know you're blind.   Peggy Chong ** 26:18 No, they have no clue. But they would do that for someone else. Yeah? So, yeah, I just take advantage of the opportunities that are already there and maximize them to my benefit.   Michael Hingson ** 26:31 So what are some of the early stories that you found that really fascinated you and that you found interesting that you've published?   Peggy Chong ** 26:41 Well, the one that just came out this month about Helen may Martin, the blind and deaf woman who was a concert pianist, is a fascinating story to me. And here's another example of this. Is a blind and deaf person who was born in 1895 the schools for the blind didn't take a blind and deaf student, and the schools for the deaf didn't take a deaf and blind student. In many parts of the country to get in as a deaf blind student, you either had to have a lot of money, or there just happened to have, happened to be somebody who was donating extra money at the time. You just happened to have a teacher that was skilled in working with one on one with a deafblind student. So Helen may didn't have that. She was born in Nebraska. The Nebraska school for the blind and deaf didn't want or the Kansas School for the blind and deaf didn't one of the Missouri School for the Blind in the School for the Deaf didn't want her, so her mother decided Helen is going to grow up and she is going to be the best of whatever she can be.   Michael Hingson ** 27:53 There's mom again. There's the family again. Well, mom   Peggy Chong ** 27:56 was a music teacher. Dad was a salesman who was on the road a lot, but he was also musically inclined, and they had a piano in the house. Mom taught music, and she kept Helen with her a lot. And Helen thought this was a game on the piano the keys and doing it, so she wanted to learn the game too. Mom, had her put her hand on the piano to feel the vibrations. Later on, it was the heel of her foot to feel the vibrations and how she would press the key harder and the vibrations of the piano were more full. When Helen started to really learn how to play the pieces, her mother would teach her with one hand, then the other, and they would put it together. And then her mother started to explain musical notes by using beans. A whole note was one bean. A half a note was two Beans. Quarter note was four beans. And explained how that worked to Helen. Then they would play these pieces, and the mother would say, Well, this is a song about the flowers, or this is a song about someone's life. And so Helen needed to know the story, and then the music had feeling her emotions. She understood the music better, and she learned to play with feeling as well. And when she was about 18, she wrote to the schools for the blind, asking again to have somebody come and teach her. Now, her mother was a smart woman. She knew there were magazines for the blind, and so she wrote and got everything she could find. Well, somewhere in New York point, somewhere in Braille,   Michael Hingson ** 29:56 Moon type and all of this. Hmm. And   Peggy Chong ** 30:01 so Helen learned several different ways to read. Her mother learned some of it and taught Helen. And then Helen, through reading these magazines, learned to read much better.   Michael Hingson ** 30:16 Let me stop you for a second, because I think it's important that listeners understand. You know, Braille was developed by Louis Braille in 1824, but it was quite a while before Braille itself was adopted. And one of the things that a lot of schools and people did early on, if you will, was assume that blind students could learn to feel raised regular characters, and then when they discovered that wasn't working as well as it could, other kind of languages were developed. Says Peggy said New York point and I said Moon type, which are two different languages, if you will, of raised characters that are somewhat different from Braille than it was a while before people realized finally that there were advantages to what Braille offered, because it was a very simple in a sense, dot configuration, but people could learn to read it and learn to read it well and read fast with it.   Peggy Chong ** 31:18 New York point was two dots high and four dots wide, right. And the New York point was started in New York, of course, with the schools there, Perkins, the Perkins School for the Blind, which began in the 1930 in the 1830s used the raise print system. They had their own printing press and everything. So they had all of the equipment to print their own books. Therefore they were invested in more ways than one into that raised system. The first school that actually taught Braille in this country was the Missouri School for the Blind in 1860 so Braille didn't quite catch on here. New York point had caught on, and what had spread across, especially New England and the East Coast, far more than Braille, the Braille did, which is why the Matilda Ziegler, what magazine was in Braille. Some of the religious magazines were Matilda Ziegler, I'm sorry, was in New York point at first, before it went into Braille. So   Michael Hingson ** 32:33 why do you think Braille finally caught on?   Peggy Chong ** 32:36 Well, it had a lot to do with money, but it also had to do with the fact that, you know, the schools for the blind, up until probably about the 1860s did more lecture and answer, question and answer, and that's how you learn they're just they didn't have either the money or the printing press or the access to actual tactile books for the kids. So the teachers themselves would lecture, and they would memorize and recite a lot more than than the sighted children did in the schools, although my dad tells stories about how they didn't have school a lot of school books, either in his school when he was growing up. I don't know, maybe that wasn't so different. But when Helen was reading things, she was getting some magazines from France, because Europe, England had publications in braille, and they would they could be received here in the United States. So her mother signed her up for those signed her up for newsletters coming out of California. California was quite a literate state in that the school for the blind, the school in Berkeley, the Institute for the Blind, they all had printing presses so that they could manufacture their books and share them. So Ohio was another place that her mother got her books Helen's books from as well. So she got all this material encouraged Helen to read and read and read, and she also taught Helen to type at the age of six, because her mother knew how to type. So her mother taught her how to type again. It was kind of a game. The keyboard was a game, and she learned to type quite well, so she kept a diary in print, and she wrote articles her mother would read to her, and they developed, at first, their own sign language, and then her mother and her sister. Her learned sign language, and they would spell into Helen's hand. Now, her dad died when she was about 1220, her sister was about 12 at the time, and so the mother had to go back to work. She became a seamstress. She had her own shop. She sewed dresses for people in town, and Helen learned how to do that. Helen had learned how to cook. She was constantly by her mother's side, so when her mother went to work, she was in charge of the house. Her mother got her classes at conservatories of music. Her mother went with her and translated into Helen's hand what was being said for the class. She never graduated from a conservatory, but because of her exposure, people were like this. She's deaf and she's blind and she's playing the piano. This is so amazing. She plays it with feeling. And so she would get a little concert here, and a little concert there. And pretty soon it expanded, and her mother thought, well, let's see where it goes, you know? So she started promoting her daughter, getting her all these concerts. There were all these professionals musicians, educators, even from the schools for the blind, who would come and watch Helen perform, because they just couldn't believe a deafblind person could do this. And when Helen would travel, she had the same experience. Her mother would send ahead all this information about Helen may Martin, the deafblind piano pianist who is going to perform, and there would be the announcement in the paper. But many times, the reporters didn't believe that Helen was deafblind, so they didn't put the article in. They would wait till after the performance, and then there would be the article about Ellen Mae Martin, and I went to see her, and she really is deaf and she really is blind, and she plays beautifully. Ripley's, believe it or not, had a program on the radio. He also had a Ripley's, believe it or not, theater in New York, and he sent someone out to check out Helen and see if she really was a deafblind pianist. And discovered that she was, and he brought her on her show. She was well received in New York, and got a multi week contract to perform at his, believe it or not, theater in New York. So she was in New York for quite a while, several months, performing for many concerts and many theaters in New York. Helen died in 1947 so she was like about 5252 years old, so she wasn't really that old. And her sister died in 1939 who was much younger than she was. So Mrs. Martin ended up out living all of her children, neither of Helen or her sister ever married or had children. So her mother ended up, not in poverty, but she certainly was not a wealthy woman when she passed away. But before she passed away, she supposedly gave all of Helen's diaries to some historical society, of which no one can find, which I'm hoping they're in a back box behind the furnace somewhere, and someday they'll be unearthed, because that would be fascinating, the little bits of her journal that were recorded in newspapers. She wrote very well. She had a very strong vocabulary. Some people equate deaf people with having a smaller vocabulary. That was certainly not the case with Helen, and Helen has been somebody that has really touched a lot of people. When you think about what you can and cannot do, nobody told Helen she couldn't. Nobody said, you know, as a deaf person, probably the piano is not something you should try to take up. But encouraged her because she had an interest, and worked with Helen's interests, and worked with what Helen knew, and her mother did that and encouraged her, made sure she was literate because she was a lot older when she went to school, really, when she went to school, she. Took about five years to complete the academic courses at the School for the Blind, and she did get a certificate of graduation she was older than the rest of the students. Her mother had blind pianists come and work with Helen while Helen was growing up, so she had music teachers, and she found some deaf students, graduates from the schools for the deaf, from other states, sometimes Kansas, who would come and work with the family. That's how they learn sign languages. So Helen's mother was extremely important with making Helen who she was I wonder   Michael Hingson ** 40:40 if she ever met Helen Keller. Yes, she did.   Peggy Chong ** 40:44 They both met when they were adults. Helen may Martin had written to Helen Keller, and Helen Keller had heard about the blind woman who was the pianist, the blind and deaf woman. So when Helen Keller went on one of her tours. She went to Nebraska, and Helen and her mother went and stayed with a relative and got an audience with Helen Keller. The Of course, Helen Keller was always followed by reporters, and so they reported on the meeting of the two Helens, and they called Helen may Martin, the second Helen Keller, well, Helen Keller was not happy with that. She said, Are you kidding? She is not the second Helen Keller, she has far exceeded everything I could have ever done.   Michael Hingson ** 41:38 I can see her say that, yes, it   Peggy Chong ** 41:40 was just, it was really wonderful. She scolded the reporter, and that reporter didn't report on the scolding, but another reporter reported on Helen Keller scolding the reporter for saying that she was the second. Helen Keller, and don't you call her at the second? Helen Keller, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 41:59 you know, it's interesting that you, you clearly worked at this pretty hard and found a lot of information about her, even so. And you're you're right. It would be nice to find her journals and the other things, and I bet you will at some point, they're somewhere.   Peggy Chong ** 42:15 I think so I think they're somewhere.   Michael Hingson ** 42:20 Now I have to go back to a story that you talked about a little bit on our first unstoppable mindset episode, because you said something here that brought it up, and that is that Helen may Martin learn to type, tell us about the history of the typewriter. Will you? Oh, I love to I know it's a great story.   Peggy Chong ** 42:42 When I go to talk to the students who are at agencies for the blind learning to be blind people when they're in their adjustment to blindness, training, a lot of them, oh, talk about how difficult the computer is because it's so difficult you can't see the keys. And I love to tell the story of the invention of the typewriter, because it was an invention for blind people. And we have forgotten that as a society, the typewriter was the invention of a man who was overly friendly with this Countess, married to this count. The Count wasn't attentive enough for the Countess, so she had to find other interests, friends, but they would write back and forth. Now the problem was the ladies in waiting who wrote the letters to her friend, her special friend, showed them to the count, and that just, you know, wasn't a good thing. So, and they also didn't get delivered either, because if the count didn't like it, he had the letters tried, so he invented this device where she could type out the letters and then send them to him without having a ladies maid between them. And it caught on the schools for the blind in New York, especially the schools for the blind taught typing at the school and their students by the late 1880s and early 1890s were going to state fairs and the World's Fair demonstrating the typewriter for the Remington company as something that really would help the gentlemen who were secretaries in the office. Lady secretaries were not quite yet the thing and   Michael Hingson ** 44:42 would have helped Bob Cratchit Anyway, go ahead,   Peggy Chong ** 44:46 you never know. Do you humbug? I love that story. Yeah, but yes. So their students graduated, were really good typists and. They saw to him that they got put into insurance companies, law firms, and highlighted their students as typists. And the typewriter was also catching on really well in the business community, because now you didn't have to decipher some of that handwriting. And believe me, that handwriting that still exists from back then is very difficult, always doing to figure out just   Michael Hingson ** 45:27 handwriting of old days or days of your that is hard to understand. So I'm told,   Peggy Chong ** 45:33 No, it's today's but yes, well, and they're actually teaching handwriting again in school. A little side note is that I have a lot of volunteers that have been transcribing documents for me from about 1915 to about 1980 from the collection of old files at the Colorado Center for the Blind that we unearthed and we found we could not use high school students and some younger college students because they couldn't read handwriting. We had to, we had to go into the retirement communities to find our volunteers who were very good, by the way. But anyway, so the typewriter has was really the communication material, tool that was used by so many blind people for a long time, and I think we got away from that now, where we have to have special keyboards for the blind. Some places are really insistent on that. Some blind people are insistent on that when you were meant not to look at the keys. That's why the two little bumps on the F and the H are there is so that you could orient yourself and continue typing looking at the paper. The sighted ladies would look at the paper and type their material and not have to look at their keys. So something that we have forgotten, and you know, like the scanner, is, you know, a product that was originally designed for blind people. We forgotten that, I think, in our society as well. But I like the inventions that blind people have contributed, such as cruise control. That was an invention by a blind man to make the cars in his lot stand out from the other car dealers in his small town. There was a man in Minnesota who had lost his hand as well as his eyesight and part of his hearing. He went to the summer programs for adult blind people at the School for the Blind in the 19 late 20s, early 30s. There were no programs for adult blind in the in the state, really at that point, unless you wanted to make brooms. They suggested that he become a piano tuner. And he said, Well, you know, I really wasn't very musical when I had my sight and my hearing, I don't really see how I can be a piano tuner if I can't hear it and I only have one hand. So what he got out of those summer programs, though, was he met other blind people who gave him job leads, and they told him to go to this broom factory in Minneapolis, because it was owned by a blind guy. And he employed some blind guys and sighted guys as well. So he went up there, and this is during the Depression, and the guy said, you know, I really love to help you. I don't need anybody in the factory. I have all the blind salesmen. Most of his salesmen were blind. I have all the salesmen that I can use for this area, but you know, if you want to branch out and head out to like, say, North Dakota or South Dakota, I'd be glad to hire you. And probably thought he'd never heard from the guy again, but the guy came back and says, Well, I found another guy. He doesn't have a job, he doesn't have a home, but he's got a pickup. So the two of them bought as many brooms as they could put into the pickup, and they headed out. Sold all the brooms. They came back. The two men, in a couple of years, earned enough money where they both bought property, and this guy, he bought the property, and what we would call today flipped. It bought a duplex and got renters in. It continued to sell brooms until he really became pretty handy at flipping houses, buying and selling property. So he got kind of tired, though, because, you know, he's now, like, close to 50 years old. Wild, and he has to change the storm windows on the house in Minnesota. Have to put on the screens in the summer and the storms in the winter. And he's climbing up the ladder. He's only got one hand trying to change the windows on the second story. And thought, There has got to be a better way to do this. I really don't want to keep climbing up this ladder. So I talked to this other guy, a blind guy, who was a furniture builder, had his own furniture shop. And he told the guy, this is my idea. I want to design a window where it comes in on a hinge, and then I can just reach in, pull in the storm, clean it, put it back, and they invented this window. He built a few of them on his own, demonstrated that it worked, put it in his house. This window company came along, bought the patent and the blank, I never worked again. He didn't have to work again. The neat thing though, was when he went blind, his wife had passed away a couple of years before, and he became very depressed, lost his job, lost his house that he had paid for his relatives, and the county came and took his three children away. When he sold his patent, he got two of his children back. His oldest child was now in the service and serving in World War Two. But he got his children back. He provided a home for his mother. He actually remarried again, you know, a man who just came back from nothing, and then out of his own need, created this window that many houses in the Midwest, the older houses built in the late 40s and 50s, have those windows that you pull in on a hinge and open up, clean them and close them   Michael Hingson ** 52:03 back out. Now, of course, we have dual pane windows and other things like that. But, yeah, yeah, so, so who invented the scanner?   Peggy Chong ** 52:12 Well, that was Ray Kurzweil. I   Michael Hingson ** 52:14 just wanted to see if you'd say that it's interesting. Kurzweil   Peggy Chong ** 52:19 is an interesting guy, you know, he is still alive and still very concerned about blind people, and active in the blind community, providing funds for scholarships and so on. We correspond, yeah, and he had this wonderful idea in the 70s to provide a scanner that would read to the blind, and it was as huge. I mean, it was bigger than my washing machine.   Michael Hingson ** 52:48 Yeah, the whole thing weighed 400 pounds, not too gosh, yeah,   Peggy Chong ** 52:51 the library, the public library in Minneapolis, bought one. Unfortunately, not a lot of people used it because they locked it up because they were afraid it was going to get broken.   Michael Hingson ** 53:03 That makes sense somehow. Yeah, right. It's, it's interesting, though, also to try to describe how the scanner worked, because you, you can't really say it took a picture like you would do today with a phone. No, because the way it worked was there was a piece of technology called a charge couple device. Won't go into the theory of that, but basically, the scanner would move up and down the page, like an inch at a time, scanning across, then dropping down, scanning back, dropping down, and so on, building up an image that took almost a minute to do. And then the computer would take probably anywhere from depending on the complexity, 20 seconds, to 30 or 45 seconds, to process it. And then it would read out loud.   Peggy Chong ** 53:52 But it worked, and you had access to that book right, and   Michael Hingson ** 53:58 you had access to that book right away, and it worked. And of course, it did get better over time. And then Ray was also very much involved in unlimited vocabulary, voice input and other things. So you mentioned two blind senators. Were there any other blind national politicians.   Peggy Chong ** 54:22 There were five blind congressmen all together. There was Thomas Shaw and there was Matthew Dunn. He served from 1935 to 1940 he was the last of any of our national representatives as blind people. And Matthew Dunn came from Pennsylvania. He was an interesting person because he did really he was interested in politics, but it was not what he wanted as a career, but he did it because he was a part of the. The Pennsylvania Association for the Blind, which was one of the original affiliates of the National Federation of the Blind. They were very concerned that the welfare system in the country was going federal, which was a good thing and a bad thing, a good thing if it was done right, a bad thing if it was not. And they knew from just Pennsylvania alone, how a charity system, a welfare system, a poor house system, they had all these different types of programs to serve blind people, as far as financial was concerned, and they had many situations in their state where if you lived on one side of the street as a blind person, you could get maybe $8 a month if you lived on the Other side, maybe only two, because you crossed a county line or you crossed out of the sea. And so they wanted to have some input on a federal level to all this, these pieces of legislation, Social Security, the rehabilitation legislation that was being bandied about, they wanted to have some input into it, to make sure that it wasn't a charity, that it wasn't for the poor, that it was something that would make you have A step up, that you could get out of poverty, that you wouldn't be stuck there, that you would have an opportunity to get a job, that you would have an opportunity to go to school and still get some financial support, that you could own your own home and maybe still get some financial support, because if you were a blind person in Pennsylvania, in some parts of the state, and you went blind at, say, 40 years old, your house was paid for. You had to sell that house or that asset in order to get financial support. And they wanted people to have a right to protect what they have so they can get a step up and get back to work. And Matthew Dunn was sent there by the blind people, and he campaigned on those issues, about wanting to go to Washington to make sure that the new laws regarding social security rehabilitation would provide people an opportunity to progress, rather than stay at home, remain in poor farms, remain in nursing homes. So he was, it was an interesting sort   Michael Hingson ** 58:01 and it's a battle that still goes on today. For   Peggy Chong ** 58:06 you know, as much as we look at history, you know, if you don't know your history, you're bound to repeat it. And you just look at things, and they just cycle through and cycle through. I remember in the 1920 minutes of the NFB of Minnesota. Back then, it was called the Minnesota State organization the blind. There were three resolutions that were just about the same as three of the resolutions at the 1995 convention. We haven't gone very far have we   Michael Hingson ** 58:40 not in some ways, you know, we have been doing this mostly an hour. But I can't end this without saying two things. One, we'll have to do another one, but, but the other one is, tell me a little bit about your recent trip to Washington. That had to be fascinating. It was   Peggy Chong ** 58:59 fascinating. I went to Washington knowing very little. What I thought I knew turned out not to be what I should have known. I came across a newspaper article about, oh, four years five years ago, five years ago, I guess, now, about a blind guy, a broom maker, who had gotten an award from the Harmon Foundation, and I couldn't understand why he got the award, because it didn't really say why he got the award. He just got an award. Well, I didn't find out much about the broom maker, so I decided to look in the Harmon Foundation, and what I had learned online was that the Harmon Foundation had given a lot of support, financial awards, loans to the black community who were into art. And I couldn't figure out how this broom maker, this white guy, Bloom. Broom maker fit in, and there was nothing online about it, until I got into the Library of Congress and found the Harmon foundation collection. And I looked at that and went, Oh my gosh, there must be a lot of data there, because the Harmon foundation collection goes from 1913 to 1965 there's 122 boxes. 14 of them are for this one program. Now there's about, oh, maybe 20, 3040, programs that the Harmon Foundation also has in this collection, none of them have that many boxes connected with it. So I thought I had hit a gold mine, and then way I did just not what I anticipated. The first two days, I spent 11 days in the Library of Congress. The first two days, I took the boxes chronologically and could not figure out what the heck was going on, because it none of it made sense. None of it fit into the stuff I knew about the program and the strangest stuff were coming up. People were writing on behalf of a school for the blind, or a public school area wanting a playground for the School for the Blind, and I'm thinking now in an awards a literary award program, why would you write and ask that? And then there were all these letters from blind people wanting to go to college and asking for a loan. And again, I thought, what? That just doesn't fit. So it took me till the third day before I got an understanding of exactly what was going on the Harmon foundation. William Harmon was the chair. He decided in 1927 he wanted a new program that would provide awards to blind people, much like their literary program that was providing scholarships for college students. They had a essay contest for farmers down in the south, and they would award them money to beautify their their property. They also had this program once I saw their newsletters where they had provided within like a five year period, over 50 playgrounds to schools or Communities for Children. And so it's starting to dawn on me that there's this group of people who've done their research on the Harmon Foundation, and there's a group of people that haven't done their research. And then there's what's going on with the award the Harmon foundation knew they had to reach out to the blind community. Part of their structure, when they were doing new awards, and they did many, was to reach out, put an advisory committee together with sewn from the Harmon foundation and those in that community in which they were trying to enhance so they wanted to reach out to the blind community. They found the Matilda Ziegler magazine, and they had the editor as one of their advisory committees, and they reached out to the American Foundation for the Blind, and ended up with a few of their representatives on that advisory committee, their normal process, the Harmon Foundation's normal process was then to take this advisory committee and then reach down into the community and have all these nominators who would take the applications for the awards and seek out applicants. Get the applications filled out, get the supporting documents filled out. For example, in their their farm and land beautification, one photographs needed to be taken sometimes, or they needed to get the names of some of the plants they were using. Sometimes, fruits and vegetables were sent to the Harmon foundation to show, hey, look how good my garden went, that kind of thing. So the nominators were to make sure that all of that was completed before the application was then sent in. That didn't work the application process. The Harmon Foundation put the application together, much like their other programs, and sent it to the advisory committee, and there were about 12 different versions of it after I went to the advisory committee in the Harmon. Original version that they had asked for award. They were going to give out 100 awards in total, and there were about eight categories, and they were going to have an award for the person who submits this great work of literary work, they were going to have an award for people who wrote essays about how they have made a difference in their life, how they made a difference in other people's lives, as blind people, and especially in that one, there's a little sub noted, and it says, when it's talking about what you might include in the essay, which is usually only about a paragraph it mentioned, and talk about how, as you progressed, your posture got better, your became more involved in the community. Well, the advisory committee ended up pulling all of that out. So the final application had a page of, is this person neat? Is this person polite? What is the posture of this person? All these personal things that when the blind people who were reading the Matilda Ziegler magazine, because Matilda Ziegler put all this information about the awards, they did a lot of promotion about the awards. They sent in essays from their previous editions of their Matilda magazine to the Harmon foundation to say these are the kind of essays that blind people can write, and they can tell you about how they have made a difference in their lives. They've made a success of this career. They have been instrumental in building their community school or their community church. But the Matilda Ziegler magazine people got the application and filled out what they thought was important, the the references and so on. And they get to all this stuff about their personal behavior, and one lady writes in and says, you know, I'm submitting my essay, but I'm not going to fill out these pieces because I don't think it has any bearing on whether or not my essay should be, should be judged on that. So I'm, I'm getting the drift here that the people that were sending in essays were not completing their application. The deadline the applications were sent out on April 15 of 1928 the deadline was August 15 of 1928 AFB provided a list of all of the organizations, the mailing list of all the names, organizations, schools, workshops for the blind, and the Harmon foundation sent out letters asking all of their these agency people to be the nominators. The AFB did not do that. They didn't write separate cover, hey, we're participating in this Harmon Foundation award, and we want you to support this award, be a nominator, and we want you to help fill out these applications and send them back so these principals at the schools for the blind or in the public schools who oversaw the program for public schools or the director of a workshop,   Peggy Chong ** 1:08:51 they they would either totally ignore it, or they would write back, well, sure, I'll be a nominator. I don't know what it involves, but you can use my name. So come August 15, the Harmon foundation doesn't have enough accepted applications to fill the awards, so they they're contacting AFB and Matilda Ziegler, what do we do? They extend the award for children and for been blind for two years. How has how have you progressed in two years to November 1, they still don't get enough because what happened is, especially with a lot of these schools, they saw it as a charity award, not a literary award. And so they would send the application in, partially filled out, and say, this student deserves this award because they came to the school and they only had one set of clothing, and we have been needing to support the student, or you need to gi

Escuche a nuestra Administradora de Servicios de Rehabilitación, Veronica Gadomski, mientras habla sobre la reciente acreditación CARF del Instituto de Rehabilitación de Palmdale Regional para nuestra unidad de pacientes hospitalizados. Esta acreditación es un gran logro que fortalece aún más el programa de rehabilitación ya exitoso.

El Dr. Amartej Merla y Benjamin Gocke, Director de Desarrollo Comercial de Palmdale Regional, hablan sobre la asociación entre City of Hope y el Palmdale Regional Medical Center, y lo que esto significará para la comunidad de Palmdale.

Tell us whatcha' think! Send a text to us, here!This conversation focuses on the significance of Parents' Rights in Education Month, highlighting the historical context of parental rights in education through the landmark case Fields vs. Palmdale. It emphasizes the importance of parental involvement in education and introduces the Parents' Rights and Education Proclamation as a tool for fostering collaboration between parents and schools. The discussion also provides practical tips for parents on how to engage with school boards effectively and encourages sharing success stories to inspire others.Support the showDONATE TODAY!www.ParentsRightsInEducation.com

She is indeed a book whisperer and a great storyteller. Our guest this time is Bridget Cook-Birch. Bridget grew up, as she says, being a tom boy. However, she also had an insatiable appetite for reading as much as she could even from an early age. She will tell us about her growing up years and So I will leave that for her.   She had a near death experience that showed her that she had a greater purpose in life than she thought. She found it when she began to write. To date she has written several bestselling books and she has helped others to successfully create and tell their stories. Bridget is firmly convinced that stories of all kinds are an extremely part of all our lives and that we should tell them.   We get to learn much about today's publishing industry and how we can each begin our own story-telling journey. I am sure you will leave this episode and possibly be more ready to tell your own story. If you are, by the way, I would love you to reach out to me at michaelhi@accessibe.com to arrange a time for us to discuss you coming on Unstoppable Mindset. Enjoy this episode with Bridget.       About the Guest:   Bridget Cook-Burch's clients call her “The Book Whisperer”. She is a New York Times & Wall Street Journal bestselling author, mentor, trainer, mamma-bear humanitarian, and speaker known for riveting stories of transformation. Her powerful work has been showcased on Oprah, Dateline, CNN, GMA, The History Channel, NPR and in People among many others. She is the CEO and Founder of YourInspiredStory.com and Inspired Legacy Publishing. Bridget is also a co-founder and former executive director of SHEROES United, a non-profit organization that helps women and girls rise from trauma. As a leader, storyteller, trainer and humanitarian, her greatest passion is helping others to discover the importance of their own story, and to become leaders in their own communities, and worldwide. Bridget's many national bestsellers include Divine Turbulence; The Witness Wore Red; Shattered Silence; Skinhead Confessions; Leading Women; and also Living Proof.   Bridget invites you to believe in the power of your story to change the world. Join her writers' retreats and leadership retreats in Utah, Italy, Ireland and more.  Find out more at www.YourInspiredStory.com and www.SHEROESUnited.org.   Ways to connect with Bridget:   Linkedin:  Bridget Cook-Burch “The Book Whisperer” - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbridgetcookburch/   Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/bridgetcookburch   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bridgetcookburch   YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@inspiredlegacypublishing       About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi once again, wherever you happen to be, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. Today we get to visit with someone who is known as the book whisperer. How about that? Bridget Cook-Birch writes a lot of stories. She writes a lot of books. She is a storyteller, and I love that about Bridget because I believe that everyone in the world has stories to tell that they can tell, and if they don't necessarily know how to tell the stories themselves, they should seek people who can help them bring the stories out into the open for people to hear however they want to do that. But I think we should never be afraid of telling our stories whatever they happen to be. So this is going to be, needless to say, a fun podcast episode to do, because stories really is what it's all about. So with that Bridget Welcome to unstoppable mindset, we're really glad you're here.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 02:18 Thank you, Michael. I'm so honored to be here, and I cannot wait, because I know we're going to have so much fun. And I've, as   Michael Hingson ** 02:24 I've told a number of people, the only hard and fast rule on this podcast, and it's what I've really only made up in the last few months, but it is, we both have to have fun, or there's no sense doing it so. And the other part of that, I suppose, is that listeners have to have fun too, so we'll work on that. We need to make it fun for them and and that's as good as it gets. Well, let's start a little bit by maybe you telling us kind of the story about the early Bridget, growing up and all that.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 02:52 The early Bridget, oh, that's scary.   Michael Hingson ** 02:55 Early Bridget,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 02:58 well, the early Bridget was adopted by two extraordinary beings, Dick and Pat whirling, who were just amazing folks. But I did have three sets of parents by the time I was six months old, and I didn't know that. Unconsciously there, there were a lot of belief systems like, oh, I can't really trust because the big people will always leave. And so I was pretty firely independent, but they were very patient with me, and I had some amazing siblings, and I read books like crazy. So I was one of those nerds that was a tomboy whenever I was outside. So I play football and climb trees and mountains and, you know, play with rattlesnakes and all the fun stuff. And then when I would go home, I would read every book I could get my hands on, read out the school library, read out the bookmobile, and my mom would let me go downtown to read out the public library. So I read a lot, and I read a lot of things that many people didn't read until they were college age, but they were important to me, and I was profoundly affected by some of those early stories, like the Diary of Anne Frank and Uncle Tom's Cabin and To Kill a Mockingbird. And I think deep down, it inspired within me to do storytelling that could change the world. So   Michael Hingson ** 04:31 now you got me curious. Tell me about playing with a rattlesnake.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 04:36 Well, we lived up against the Rocky Mountains, and we were kind of in a deserted area. And where was this? What's that?   Michael Hingson ** 04:46 Where were you?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 04:47 I was in Brigham City, Utah, in Utah. Okay, great. All places. My folks had adopted me from, Laramie, Wyoming. And yeah, my folks were from Detroit originally, and they. Came out so my dad, who was an engineer, could work on the Minutemen missile. And, yeah, so he was a, he was a cowboy in in always, except he wasn't from here. Yep, he wore the cowboy boots and a belt buckle the size of Texas and a 10 gallon hat. And loved to take us on historical, you know, sites all around the West. So   Michael Hingson ** 05:26 So playing with rattlesnakes, playing with rattlesnakes.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 05:28 Yep, we we used to climb up into the mountains behind our house, and they were full of rattlesnakes. When I was little, I didn't understand that the baby rattlesnakes were actually more poisonous. I just thought they were kind of cute. So I would do a little playing around with them, until I found out that that that was not the smartest thing.   Michael Hingson ** 05:53 Did you ever get bit by one?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 05:54 You know what? I never did. I think it's because I have a lot of affination for nature. I had a lot of peace when I was out in nature, and it seems like I never got bit or scratched or anything else. So I was very blessed. We will tell you that, because there is no way that a ambulance would have made it up the mountain, and the baby rattlers are actually more poisonous than the adults, so   Michael Hingson ** 06:23 they're more prone to strike because they don't really have, or at least they haven't yet developed some of the things that they will learn later. But yeah, that is true. My brother in law, so my what my late wife and her family grew up in Fontana and Rialto in California, also sort of on the the lower desert, but lots of things around. And one day, my brother in law, Gary, came into the house holding a black widow spider, and was showing off to everybody. And of course, everyone was just freaked out. And so he then took it outside and let it go, but still, he carried this black widow spider into the house fearlessly. Wow, that   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 07:13 I was not as fearless of spiders. I could handle snakes quite a bit, but no spiders. I would just run screaming from spiders.   Michael Hingson ** 07:22 I have occasionally been in a position where I ended up sitting very close to spiders and didn't know it, but, but nevertheless, I and black widows, among other things, when I was growing up on the desert in Palmdale, that's sort of the high desert, and we had a lot of critters. Of course, my favorites were tortoises, and we had several tortoises come up to our house, and if you decided to live with us for a little while, which is fun. Now we don't see tortoises anymore, unfortunately.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 07:51 Oh, that's too bad, but I do know that they don't bite poisonously, but you still have to watch for them biting you. Well, tortoises, tortoises,   Michael Hingson ** 08:01 you know, there's tortoises and terrapins, which are sometimes called snapping turtles, but tortoises generally won't if you're friendly and and don't do anything that you you shouldn't do to an animal or anyone else. One of the things that I did was fed them lettuce and rose petals and occasionally cantaloupe. And even when they weren't eating, if I would put my hand down in front of a tortoises nose and then slide my finger under the nose, they would stick their head out of the shell to get their neck scratched. They loved it. Oh, yeah, tortoises can be very friendly. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, they're they were fun. And we, we had them a fair amount. And then after growing up and living on the East Coast and coming back to California, we we didn't really have so much with tortoises, it's unfortunate. They're more endangered, I think, than they were, but really enjoy them, which was a lot of fun.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 09:00 Yeah, there's a lot of things that our kids don't have as easy access to, in terms of animals and nature that we once did. Yeah, I hope that shifts. I hope that changes   Michael Hingson ** 09:12 I do too. I think we also need to learn not to be afraid of so many things. I mean, I would say you'd be cautious around rattlesnakes, but I think fear is one of the biggest problems that we face, because animals can sense when you're afraid, like people say, if you're caught out somewhere with a bear or with a wolf or or even dogs that tend to Be aggressive, they're going to be more. So if you're showing fear,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 09:45 I'll tell you what. I had a situation up in mountain green. I was a single mom, and I had my sweet husband. Now I was dating. We had so much snow that our dog. Were walking out of this the fence, and so he put up like a little compound, and so that they couldn't walk walk out, and a wolf jumped over the fence to get to the dog food, but then couldn't jump back out. And I, you know, and I had kids, and I have Mama Bear instinct when it comes to kids, to my dog, so I ended up having to open every door in the house that led outside to the other and and then finally opened the sliding glass door so the wolf could go all the way through my house and up through and and escape, but that was a pretty harrowing experience. But you said we have to be careful about fear, because they do sense that. And you know that because of all you know your your dogs, and I'm sure that you've had pretty intense connections with certain animals   Michael Hingson ** 10:57 well, and I value that a great deal. And in fact, later this year, we're publishing a new book called Live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and walking in faith. And the idea is that I use lessons that I've learned directly from all of my dogs on my wife's service dog, Fantasia, to deal with fear. And I'm it's the first time I've really started to work to try to teach people that they don't need to be, as I call it, blinded by fear or paralyzed by fear, that you can use fear as a very powerful tool to help you and that you can use it to help you focus. It isn't to say don't be afraid, but it is a question of how you're afraid and what you do with it. So yeah, I'd be really concerned about a loose wolf or cat in my yard, but I think that the thing to do is to figure out how to deal with it and and try to be peaceful with it. And mostly you can do that unless there's some disease around that, like rabies, that you don't and they don't have any control over and having gotten but mostly, I think we really can learn to be a lot more focused and use fear as a very powerful supportive tool than not. So it is, is something that will be out later this year. It's going to be out in August, and I'm looking forward to it. People have seen links to it. We've already tindalled. The publisher has already put out some pre order links and so on, and people are saying very kind things about it with so I hope it'll be as successful as thunder dog was back in 2011 which was my   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 12:38 first question to say, I can't wait to read this one, because I really enjoyed thunder dog. I enjoyed the storytelling. I enjoyed the teaching that you did with it. Some of those stories, though were were really something in the stairwell, but also when you were out of the building, and you did use fear in a in a smart way and saved people's lives like that was incredible. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 13:05 thank you. And I think that that's really what's important. And I realized when the pandemic occurred that I've been talking about not being afraid for song, but never really worked to try to help people learn how to control fear. So that's what it's about helping people. I'm and really enjoying being able to have the opportunity to get people to understand we're all better than we think we are.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 13:32 I would agree with that 1,000%   Michael Hingson ** 13:36 so you want you went off? Did you go to college? I did,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 13:41 I started off at University of Utah, and then I ended up at Utah State, little more smaller school that I liked better for just a few different reasons, but especially because I could just be immersed in nature, like the canyon was right there in my backyard, and I spent a lot of time up in the canyon. And so I went to, I've got a BS and a BA. I took political science and Russian language and all different, all different aspects. I got a couple different minors as as well as a couple majors and and loved it. Nothing in English, nothing on writing. So it all had to do, really, with with human relations and international relations. So it was one of those things that I thought I would do, until I began writing, and now I incorporate all of it.   Michael Hingson ** 14:34 So what did you do after college?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 14:37 Well, I got married, and that's   Michael Hingson ** 14:41 a full time job. Yes,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 14:43 while I was while I was in college, I had a pretty intense near death experience that solidified my faith in God in a really remarkable way. But it also I've, I've talked to a lot of people who've had near. Experiences and shared death experiences, and it seems like you you often come back with a gift, and the gift that I came back with was to be able to see people's stories in an extraordinary way. And I can almost like they'll be telling me a story, and I can see the threads of it and how that could be used for a speech, or how it could be written into a book, and how it could be, you know, even more compelling in the way that it's told. And and so I was, I was able to see that, and after college, I was able to start writing and working on some of these stories. So it really turned out to be a boon and a blessing for me.   Michael Hingson ** 15:44 If you want to, can you tell us a little bit about what happened with your near death experience?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 15:50 Yeah, there was a time I was afraid to talk about it because it was so sacred, yeah, but I was also worried that, you know, people might think I was crazy. I hadn't in the beginning. When it first happened, I was in my early 20s. I was working three jobs and going to school and overworking. I got very, very ill and ended up in in the hospital and listening to a couple nurses outside in the corridor saying, this girl's not going to make it until morning. And Michael, I don't know how you felt in the tower, except from what you wrote in the book, but the one thing I knew was that I had not fulfilled the measure of my creation, and I had no idea what that was. I was pretty clueless for a college student, had big dreams, but I didn't know what the fulfillment of my my creation was, but I just knew I hadn't done it yet, and I was so sad that I wasn't going to have that opportunity. And you know, I had what I would call intercessory prayers, my mother really praying to save my life. And I had other people that were praying and and I had a I had actually two figures that filled my room, one I know is an angel, and then one that for me was definitely Jesus Christ, my Creator, and he told me that I was being given a second chance at life, and I didn't take any of it for granted and and the for the first time in days, I fell into a real deep sleep. My fever came down, and when the nurse came in, she's giving me more intravenous antibiotics because I've been so sick. And I told her, I just had this knowledge, like I said, you can give me every single one of these antibiotics, but not this one. It's killing me. And she thought I was a fruitcake, you know, she's like, this is the only thing saving your life. We thought you were going to be gone. And I'm like, No, I can have every one of these, but not this one. And fortunately, I had a doctor who had patients who'd had other experiences, and he listened and he says, well, we might as well take her off this one. She's on the rest of these. And because of that, I was able to walk out of the hospital in the next 24 hours under my own power. So   Michael Hingson ** 18:25 did they ever decide that you were allergic to it, or explanation   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 18:30 deeply allergic to one of those intravenous antibiotics? The moment they took me off, I started doing better. Wow. So it was pretty crazy.   Michael Hingson ** 18:41 Yeah. Well, you know my experience from Thunder dog, where I heard God's voice in in chapter 10 of thunder dog, and that was as real as it could get. And it's one of the things that led me to believe that when one door closes, a window opens, as Alexander Graham Bell once said, and the whole point is that there are things to do, and I didn't even worry about trying to figure out what they were what I needed to do was to look at opportunities as they came along and Do something with them. Of course, the next day after September 11, so on the 12th, Karen, my wife, said, You want to really call Guide Dogs for the Blind and tell them what happened, because several of them had visited us in the World Trade Center. So I did, and that led to the Director of Public Information wanting to do a story. And also she said, you're going to get visible on TV, I bet, where do you want to be first? And I wasn't thinking so. I just said, Larry King Live. And on the 14th of September, we had the first of five interviews on Larry King Live. And you know, the issue is that, again, that led to people starting to call and. And saying, We really would like you to come on and speak to us and talk to us and tell us what we should learn about September 11 and such things. And so I decided to start doing that. And I realized if I could tell people about what happened and teach them how to move forward from September 11, if I could teach people more about blindness and what guide dogs are all about and such than it was worth doing. And that's exactly what I did, and I've been doing it ever since. And then the pandemic came, and some things changed, but we continue to move on. And now I'm actually starting to ramp up speaking again, and looking for more speaking engagements to to help with the the income process, because not ready to retire yet, and don't have the money to retire yet. So anybody who needs a speaker out there, I'd love to talk with you about it. But you know, the the issue is that God gives us the opportunities, and that's really important to deal with. So anyway, I think we really do need to look at opportunities that come. And I really appreciate you talking about what you experienced, because it certainly told you that there's more to do. And I think that for all of us, there's a lot more that we can do, if we would but listen and and ponder and think about and look at what's happening in our lives to be able to move forward.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 21:36 I would agree with that 1,000% and hopefully it doesn't have to take a Mack truck or a near death experience for us to recognize like, what a gift life really is and what a gift our story is, and how we can serve and support and lift one another.   Michael Hingson ** 21:55 Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important that we do focus on the stories and so well, tell me a little bit more about you and stories. You you believe that words can change the world and that we all should be telling stories. Talk more about that, and also just about the whole idea of when we're talking about stories. Do we really want to talk about the stories that limit us, and do we focus on those, or the stories of possibilities, or does it really even matter?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 22:30 Oh, I'll tell you what it does matter. I've seen it over and over again, but I'll tell you a little history of how I discovered that. Uh, so after my near death experience, my husband and I moved to Denver, Colorado, and I had the opportunity to work as a PR consultant for a company called community learning centers, and I got to interview high risk kids, gang youth and others, but especially the ones who had turned their life around. And I was listening to stories that so different from how I had grown up that I was fascinated, but I also saw how the stories that we tell ourselves are the most important stories, and I began to see incredible patterns from that, and from that, I thought I would write a fictional book, like a story of forgiveness and redemption, and was even writing this book and and then I had a dream about this book, but it was different than what I had been writing. And in my dream, the book was about, you know, a gang, gang member who had left his gang had a huge price tag on his head, and in the dream, it was a skinhead. And I didn't know anything about skinheads, because the the kids I worked with in Denver were Bloods and Crips and we stra Familia and several others, but not any white supremacists. I had to do all kinds of research and discover their ideology. And then, you know, it was fascinating. Michael was to to have this dream and have to do this research find out more. And then I come across this guy's website, and he was looking for someone to write his life story that I had been writing from this dream. So to make a long story short, I recognized something guided and divine about stories, at least in terms of of where I was finding them, because they continued to find me. And a woman read his book and and she reached out to me, and she said, You know, I think if someone could take a story of darkness and create something of hope and healing, it would be you. And then she told me that she was the. Happy Face serial killer's daughter and asked if I would write her story. And I gotta tell you what. You know, it was difficult enough for me to write the skinhead story, but I learned and grew so much so I wasn't afraid of the story. I just didn't know how I was going to write something of hope and healing about a serial killer's daughter and and then I interviewed her, and I also received a lot of just inspirational downloads on how to write the book and, and I will tell you, because we chose to be of service. And I think this is really important for anybody who's choosing to write a book, is who are you writing to and how do you want to reach them, because when you choose to write a book to be of service, especially in non fiction. You know, in fiction, there's all different reasons to write education and entertainment, but in non fiction, we have, we have different levels that we can go to and and we chose to be of service. And I think because of that, that book did extraordinary things, and continues to it was on Oprah and Dr Phil and CNN and Good Morning America, and it still remains in the top true crime. And it's transformational true crime, because it was not only the victim story, but the rise of Melissa from victim to Victor. Now she's a producer in LA she's been doing tremendous things. I'm her biggest fan, except for her family and and I gotta tell you just that writing that book and seeing what could happen with a story that could change the world, it changed me and and it made me more open to seeing how one person could change the world. And I got to write my next story was of a woman who was the 19th wife of 65 women right here in our country, and she got married to the Prophet of the FLDS Church, which was an extreme organization, and and they were trafficking children in the name of God. And there were a lot of good and innocent people in that group, and then there were nefarious leaders. But I saw the power of this one woman, Rebecca Musser, to help dismantle an organized crime unit in the name of God, and she put Warren Jeffs behind bars for life plus 20 years. And it wasn't all her. There was a huge team. And there was these amazing you know, like attorneys and Texas Rangers and AGs office members, you know, down in Texas, and they all work together along with other witnesses. But she was a primary player. And what was really cool about that, Michael, I'll tell you, is, is Warren Jeffs had outlawed the color red because that was supposed to be the color that Christ would wear when he came again. And so none of his people were allowed to have red cars or red toys or red clothing. And every time that Rebecca testified more than 20 times in a court of law, she came Sasha and in and in some sort of red which I loved, because it was her way of telling this, this man who said he would break her, that she you know, that he did not break her and and it was really lovely. But the last time she went to testify, she had to face Warren Jeffs on her own because he had fired his attorneys. And I know that she was petrified on the inside, but she she comes into court, and she's wearing this beautiful red suit, and she turns around to be sworn in at the end, sees the galley, and I'll never forget, because I was sitting in the galley watching her, and the whole galley was filled with with red red ties on the Texas Rangers and red flowers and women's hair and, you know, red dresses. And I, I witnessed firsthand the power of one woman to change the world again. And ever since then, I've just been recognizing more and more things about story, and I've written some really incredible books since then. But I wanted to share a quote with you, because you asked about, you know, the stories that we tell ourselves, and another author that I love. He was a professor, Harold Goddard, and he said the destiny of the world is determined less by the battles lost and won than by the stories it loves and believes in. And my question to the world is, so are you? Are you going to let. Those stories that you love and believe in be stories of limitation or of possibility. And I've been able to see what happens when someone says, All right, I'm gonna begin to tell myself stories of possibility.   Michael Hingson ** 30:17 How true and so eloquently said. And the the issue is that we we limit ourselves. I've told people on this podcast a number of times that I used to always say to myself, I'm my own worst critic when I'm thinking about things. And I realized over the last year, wrong thing to say. We need to get out of the negative mindset so much in most everything that we do, and I now say I'm my own best teacher, because in reality, I'm the only one who can teach me things, people can offer and give information, but I'm my own best teacher, and I should approach everything that way. And I think more of us should really approach life from a learning and an adventure standpoint, because life really is an adventure, and it's there to give us the opportunity to learn. If we but we'll do it,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 31:10 I would agree 1,000% it is an adventure, and I think, I think a lot of us will stay in this just just barely getting by, you know, scraping by, whether it's physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, financially, that we hold ourselves in in a box and we're afraid to venture out in the last few years like I love that you realize that people needed a way to overcome fear and really be able to face it and lean into it. And the last several years in our country, we've we've just been facing some things that have made fear come straight up in our face. I think there's a reason for that. I think all things happen for a reason, and it's time for humanity to be able to move beyond fear and to use it as a tool, as you mentioned, but but also as a stepping stone to so many greater things, including, you know, not not having to tear one another down. We've, we've been very territorial, and some of that is, you know, 1000s of years in our DNA of creating an us versus them so we can protect ourselves. And, you know, we've, we've held a lot of judgment for others, but there's this unique and beautiful thing that happens when we let down our walls. And yeah, we still need to discern. We need to, you know, if somebody tells us who they are, we need to believe them. But I also think there's so much good in people, and if we can begin to lift one another up, all the boats rise together, that humanity has some really exciting things in store.   Michael Hingson ** 32:57 We have been experiencing in so many ways from some of our political leaders, and I sort of put leaders in quotation marks, but we've been seeing so much fear. And the other thing is that a lot of people say, Well, I trust what this guy says. I trust what that guy says. And my response is, why do you trust them? Well, because he talks to me, he says what I want to hear again, whoever it is that they're talking about, and my response is, and where it gets back to the whole issue of fear is, how much of it do you verify? And it doesn't matter what political side you're on, how much of it do you really think about and analyze and really look at what one person or everyone is saying right now, I'm in California. We have the the one of the Senate races going on, and there are two major Democrats running, and one is Adam Schiff, who was involved in, of course, the whole issue of the investigation of January 6. And the other one is a woman named Katie Porter. And Adam Schiff's commercials oftentimes talk about, well, they play segments of speeches, and they do other things, and they talk about his accomplishments. And Katie Porter talks about, she doesn't take political PAC money, or federal or large corporate PAC money and other things like that. And when I heard a few of the commercials on both sides, I step back and I say, what is this person really done? Why do I want to vote for this person just because they don't take PAC money or what have they accomplished? What have they done to show me that they're truly going to be able to make our world better than than it is? And I think that it's my obligation as a voter to really look at that. And again, it doesn't matter whether it is in the Democratic side or the Republicans. Side, we really have to analyze, and if we do that, we won't be nearly as fearful of so many things as we are today.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 35:08 I would agree with that. I'm I love what you have to say about that, because a lot of things have to do with tearing one another down, or, like you said, the fear based. But you know, what is someone's track record in building something, in creating something. So that's a very good point. Michael,   Michael Hingson ** 35:29 well, I think that we we really need to look at more than just listening to words. It's our job to to think about, to synthesize, to internalize and come up with answers based on everything, rather than relying on what some people say. I love all these conspiracy theorists all over the place are are so amazing. And you know, I don't know what to say, other than prove it, and   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 36:03 right know is that they know how to use the power of story. They just happen to be using it to tear people down. And if we're not careful, we can get sucked into a rabbit hole. And I love what you said, like more than words. What are they doing? But also, I think it's important for us to do our own research, not believe something just because everybody else says it. In fact, Michael, I had a funny experience last, last year, the year before, when some of these conspiracy theories were really hitting some high points. And there was a lot going on in terms of of human trafficking and and some of these world power theories on that. And, you know, we found out some of these were true in terms of of, you know, some high profile celebrities that got in trouble, when, when some things were going down. But was interesting because I I found out that I was on a hit list that was going out to many people that were going down these rabbit holes of conspiracy theories. And I was grateful that they were trying to do the work, but they accidentally put me on the other sheet, like, here's the enemies that we're going to go after, and then here are those people that actually will do the journalism and the research, and they'll help to bring it down. And I was supposed to be on the journalism and research and writing books that will help to bring you, know, bring down some of these monolithic crime units, and I ended up being accidentally put on the other list. And luckily, a friend of mine said, whoa, whoa, wait a minute before they publish the list. And she says she's actually see supposed to be on the on the other list. But I thought how quickly my reputation could have been ruined a split second, and that that is happening all across the United States, all across the world, and so that's why we have to stand for our own stories, because sometimes we're going to be put on the wrong list, or someone's going to hate something that we have to say. But But I also think it's, it's really important for us to take a stand for something. You know, we're really good at taking stands against things. But what are we what are we good at taking a stand for?   Michael Hingson ** 38:35 Yeah, so tell me, what do you think the deepest need is that humans have, and what do stories have to do with it?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 38:44 I honestly deep question. It is a deep question, but it's cool, because I get to see it every day. So I'm glad that you asked that the deepest need that I see humans need is for significance. They need to know that they're here for a reason, that they're wanted, that they're needed, that they're seen and heard and valued by someone, and stories can go such a long way in doing this has to start inside of us, because whatever stories we're telling ourselves, we write the script for other people to treat us that way. I see that over and over as well. But then there's also, how do I present myself and my stories out in the world. Doesn't mean that everybody has to write a book or be a best selling author, but every day, we tell stories. We tell stories to ourselves. We tell stories to our spouses. We tell stories to our bosses and the people that are in our chain of command, or our associates. We tell stories to the the grocery clerk, and and and stories are really remarkable in their power. We were just talking about conspiracy theories, and I think we're seeing some huge things happening the last couple years in Russia too, how Russia was able, just like we've seen in the last several World Wars and other altercations, where propaganda could sway an entire nation to go up against their neighbor, who a lot of them were family members, and to believe lies about that neighboring nation. And so stories are relevant. They are important. Ever since we were around the campfire, you know, as early education of humans took place in the storytelling. At that point, we learned our roles, our responsibilities, what was possible, what we believed was impossible. And the beautiful thing is that we continue to show that we're way beyond what we once thought was impossible, and now the question is, is you know, what are we going to do with it? But stories are vital to humankind,   Michael Hingson ** 41:13 and we should appreciate them and love them and and use them to allow us to teach ourselves more things. You know, you talked earlier about fiction isn't so much about service. And I'm not totally sure I would say that. I think that the Yeah, fiction is intended to entertain. So a lot of non fiction, but, but the issue is, I think of books like the Harry Potter series, which really are so inspirational and offer so many lessons that all of us can use. And the reality is, some people say, Well, yeah, it's fiction. Well, really, so what? How many times do we hear about people who have done so many things that no one thought they or anyone can do. And one of my favorite stories is, of course, it was said for many years that no one could break the four minute mile. You would die before you could make the break the four minute mile, until Roger Banister did it in what 1956 I think it was, or 57 and then everybody started to do it, but people said that he would die before he would be able to do that, and it was a medical impossibility. But the reality is, he believed that he could, and he did,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 42:33 I agree and and how beautiful that, that all of a sudden, he broke that entire barrier of beliefs for people. And I love that you mentioned Harry Potter. I love JK Rowling. I do too. I love what she's created. And she's done what a lot of people considered impossible, you know, a single mom with a little baby and that she had to care for, and she's riding on cocktail napkins, you know, on the train rides and and doing things. And she did something so extraordinary and reinvigorated an entire world, children and adults to want to read again. And how, how beautiful that is. And you're right, there's, there's so many lessons and other things and she does more than entertain, and I would agree with that. I also just want to share too that, you know, our world has changed quite a bit, and in which the literature for young people doesn't include as many of those profound elements of lessons and morals and friendships, and what do we do? There's a lot of darker elements to our entertainment for young people. And the one thing that I would caution in that is I can't tell you how many people you know who I've helped with their stories and write their books and other things, and they were heavily influenced by the media of that time, in that day. And so, you know, it's one of those things where I still think it's important for writers to be able to influence young people towards believing in themselves, believing in possibilities, and to believe that light can be greater than the darkness. I think we all need that right now.   Michael Hingson ** 44:28 I love Stephen King. I think he's a very creative writer, but I don't like to read nearly as much of the dark stuff as I used to. But I also think that he, like so many people, demonstrates a lot of creativity, especially in some of his earlier books, in a lot of different ways. And so I can appreciate that. And I think that any good author is one that you have to look just beyond the words to. What's going on in the story, what kind of creative things that that they bring to it. And he clearly is a good storyteller.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 45:08 He's extremely talented. Yeah, he's jealous as I am, but charts talented, that's for sure, jealous   Michael Hingson ** 45:15 as I am. And, you know? And then there are others. Go to the Western Louis L'Amour and Zane gray. Now, Zane Gray, of course, long time ago, but one of the neat things about Zane Gray was, and is, with his stories, he's so descriptive, he draws you in and makes you feel like you're in the country he's writing about, and he talks so much about the land in the country that he he makes you feel you're there, which is so cool.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 45:46 Oh, that's neat. I you know what? I've not read a lot of Zane Gray. I think only one or two of his back in the day, but I read a lot of Louis L'Amour Yeah. Also add Zane gray to my readers list.   Michael Hingson ** 45:58 I keep looking every so often, in case I find that there's a little and more book I haven't read because I really enjoy his writing. And yeah, a lot of them are all the same sort of basic plot, but, and it's the but, it's the difference, and his stories are all so good,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 46:14 yeah. And it's interesting about Zayn gray too, finding out that he was a dentist, and always wonder like when he was working in people's mouths, was he, was he crafting plots and storylines, and, you know, other things, I think, and   Michael Hingson ** 46:29 telling stories? Yeah, now you mentioned once that Warren Buffett has an interesting quote that you think is extremely valuable. What is that?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 46:38 Well, Warren Buffett, as as most people know, has been this incredibly influential business leader.   Michael Hingson ** 46:47 Talk about being a bright and creative guy, a bright and creative guy who's   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 46:51 who's worth so much more than any of us can not any of us, but many of us can conceptualize. And one of the things he's famous for teaching is, you know, if you want to be worth several times more in your lifetime, learn how to express yourself on paper and in person. So he truly believed in the power of story, and I think we've seen that through some of the smartest CEOs of our generation have been the creative storytellers, you know, the ones who who recognize the power of story, and then we're able to put that together. Apple is one of those, those fabulous examples of, you know, when they would fail and then when they could succeed spectacularly is when the storytelling got as good as the technology. The storytelling beam even better than the technology for that particular year, but they've been able to shine because of it.   Michael Hingson ** 47:57 Well, when Steve Jobs really started expressing his vision and talking about what a piece of technology should do and could do, and motivated people to then make it happen. That's so important, I think in an organization,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 48:15 I think so too. I think so too. And I think we're going to be seeing more and more of that, and sometimes we see when, when some of these leaders fail, you know, they they tell too big of a story, and they can't manage the expectations, or they fall flat in the storytelling, or they hurt someone in the storytelling, which actually ends up not doing them good in the long run, but I think what's important is, can you be inspiring? Can you motivate? And can you be your word when you're when you're choosing to use those stories for for a greater good?   Michael Hingson ** 48:55 Another thing that's coming up, and I was going to call it the elephant in the room, but that's not fair to it. It's not fair to do that. But what about the whole issue of AI and chat, GPT and so on? Where do you see that that fits into the world today and going forward?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 49:11 Well, that's a fascinating question. And you know, who asked me this the most are some of the young people when I'm on their podcast and I sound so old, like a grandma, and I am Grandma, you know, I'm a Mimi but, but the but these young podcasters, they want to know too, like, hey, you've been around the block. What do you think about AI? And I'm going to tell you something. There's some people who are completely against it, and they feel like we're going to hell in a hand basket really quickly because of AI and and then there are those who are saying, Hey, this is the end all, be all. And, you know, we shouldn't, and couldn't be doing anything without it. And I'm going to tell you, I'm I'm in the middle. I'm going to tell you why. Um, the reason I think that there is merit to AI is that there's certain things that it's going to do so much more quickly for us. It's going to help us with ideas, and in terms of writing, it's going to help us edit more quickly so we can communicate better. Where we run into trouble is if we're asking AI to be our brain, to be our creativity, to be our thinker. And sometimes people get really nervous about that, because they think kids will use AI and that they won't think on their own. But I will tell you this, the kids I've been seeing, even the young ones with AI, it sparks their imagination greater. They're asking smarter questions. They're wanting to see more. They're coming alive with a fire of creativity. They're not relegated to, oh, you couldn't spell a word to save your life. Well, this will spell the word for me, but I want to tell this story, and I want the graphics to look this way, and I want to create a movie and and it it enables the human imagination to take off. All I would say is, don't let it be your brain.   Michael Hingson ** 51:13 I had the honor to talk with someone a couple weeks ago, a gentleman named Glenn Gao, who's a e business coach and supports AI a great deal. He would agree with you and and me, by the way, I believe the same. One of the things that that he said was that he went to a company who wanted his coaching, and they talked about AI, and one day the CEO called his major people together and said, Take the day and study AI and then come back to my I think it was, the next day, and tell us how we should incorporate AI in one way or another, chat, GPT or whatever, into our business. And the creative, incredible ideas that people came back with the next day totally astounded the CEO, and they put things in place, and it improved the company a great deal, because the idea still is it shouldn't be the job of artificial intelligence, I think, no matter how advanced it gets, to be the end all and be all, as you said, it is Still something where I think there's a component of us that we're not going to be able to to create in the near future. Dr Ray Kurzweil would say, We'll join the human brain with with a computer, and that will change all that. I'm not convinced of that. And I know Ray, I used to work for him. I think that the reality is that artificial intelligence is a tool, and I think in the classroom, if teachers embrace it correctly, what they will do, if they think that students are starting to really use it to create their papers is teachers will get more creative and say, Okay, class, everyone's turned in their papers. Now I'm going to call on each of you, and you have a minute and a half to defend your paper in front of the whole class. I mean, there are ways to deal with it, to make sure that the students are really still doing what they should do. And I've used chat GPT to help compose some things that I've worked on. And for me, I get all that I can, I think, from the artificial intelligence system, and then I turn it into my own work by by changing things, adding things that AI didn't catch and I know making a much better article because I started using something else to help me, and I just view it as a collaborative effort, a team, and AI as part of the team.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 53:53 And sometimes it can provide a really valuable framework for the imagination to take fire. So I, yeah, I'm with you on that. I think that there's a lot of beautiful things that can be used for   Michael Hingson ** 54:08 and I think over time, we'll realize that it's, it's such a big hot issue right now, but, you know, the internet was a big hot issue, and we still have the dark web today, and it's it's there with us, but people, by and large, have now accepted the value of the internet and what it can bring I have always believed it's a wonderful treasure trove of information, so I have a lot of fun exploring the internet. Haven't ever been to the dark web. Don't know where it is, and if I ever found it and I discovered it wasn't accessible, I'd see who I could go off and sue because they didn't make it accessible, but that's another story. That's my conspiracy for the day.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 54:47 That's your conspiracy for the day. I've hired private detectives to go on the dark web to research situations for safety for my authors. But that's as far as I've gone.   Michael Hingson ** 54:58 I have. No idea how to get to the dark web or, you know, I mean, I can conceptually, intellectually understand the process, but would have no idea where to go to find it. So I have to, you'll have to tell me when we're done here. I've always been curious, but I hear what you're saying. And the reality is that the internet and AI are two tools that can enhance what we do so much, and I think people will eventually recognize that and will become better for it.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 55:34 I think so too, and again, I just think we have to have faith in each other in humankind and in our own imagination. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 55:45 we just have to work on it, and we have to recognize and think it through and then take action. And we can learn to do that very well. I love to tell people, the best thing I think anyone could do is to take time at the end of the day and while you're falling asleep, think about what happened that day. Think about what worked, what didn't work, and even what worked, what could you do better with it? I never talk about failure, so the things that didn't work aren't failures. It's a learning experience, and we grow from it. And I think we can do that, but I think that it's what we have to do to become better than we are, and we can do that every single day, which is, for me, such a cool idea, and what I like to do. Well, what are some of the problems that you think exists in the world today that we as individuals can change?   56:34 How's that for a general   Michael Hingson ** 56:36 question, for you question,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 56:37 Michael, Well, honestly, it's, it's pretty crazy. It's pretty wonderful. I I remember sometimes that I have felt helpless in the world when something has happened, particularly like in terms of of humankind, right? Sometimes there was a crime committed, and I felt helpless. Sometimes there was like a school shooting, and I felt helpless, a world disaster, and I felt helpless and I wanted to serve and do something in some capacity, and then I get asked to write a story, or I get asked to help an author, and it's just like God brings me a story to show for one thing for me to let down my judgments and and to see that there are so many solutions out there. So one of the things I'll I'll just say, is that you at talk about conspiracy theories, there is an author that I'm working with who has this tremendous story, and I can't tell you all about it today, but I'll, I'll be singing his praises to high heaven in in a few months. But what I will tell you is he had to come across one of the the roughest and nefarious conspiracy theorists of our time, and and he learned to own his voice, and he learned to be able to tell the truth In a really beautiful, extraordinary way, and part of that was was creating something that made other conspiracy theorists think twice before they were going to tell lies about individuals or families just for their own agenda or to make their own money. That's powerful. You know, when someone can use their own personal story to bring down a conspiracy theorist who's making millions of dollars based on those conspiracies that that tells you, again, the power of one person. I'm seeing world leaders do extraordinary things in terms of, how do we lift one another on the planet? How do we take care of our planet? As you know, nature is so important. Animals are so important. How are we going to take care of that? I love that you are one of those authors who in terms of accessibility and making sure that that people are being taken care of in all their forms. You're you're one that brings solutions. So I love that. Can I share story?   Michael Hingson ** 59:29 Oh, sure.   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 59:31 Okay, so one of the things we've been facing, as we've been discussing, is the last several years, this predilection for humankind to tear down one another in our fear. And I had the opportunity to work with an extraordinary person. His name is Gary Lee price, and he faced a lot of that tearing down when he was a child. He had. A mother and stepfather who he lost through murder suicide on an army base in Mannheim, Germany, and he and his baby brother were shipped from the frying pan back into a couple of horrific situations, and Gary himself faced all kinds of abuse, the worst kinds of abuse and and really a slavery in his own house and, and part of it was because the adults were working nights and they didn't know that he was being tortured and abused. And instead of becoming a horrific, violent, bitter person, Gary found God, and he found art, and he became a very famous painter in his area by the time he was in high school, but was when he found this three dimensional miracle called clay that all of a sudden his imagination took flight literally, and he's, to this day, created 1000s of sculptures that lift humankind, and they're in corporate offices and arboretums and churches and outside the Vatican and in the Hong Kong library like they are all over But in terms of solving human problems or inspiring our solving of problems. Gary was asked to create a symbol that was inspired by Dr Victor Frankel. And you know who that is, right? So he had survived four Nazi concentration camps in three years, and he lost his entire family to the gas chambers, into illness and and he got out, and he wrote this extraordinary book, Man's Search for Meaning. And in that book, eventually, and also when he would teach in the United States, he would say, you know, in the United States, it's wonderful that you have the Statue of Liberty on the East Coast. And he said, but in Vienna, we learned that that Liberty itself is not the only answer. You need to have responsibility, because without responsibility, there is no liberty. And you know, he'd seen irresponsibility and anarchy and dictatorship and annihilation. And so anyway, Dr Stephen Covey thought, wouldn't it be awesome to honor Dr Frankel with creating a symbol of the statue of responsibility, and Gary created this symbol. And after everything he'd been through as a child, when he was thinking, what is a symbol that can inspire all of humankind? And it was the symbol of one hand reaching down to grasp another to lift it up. And he says, Sometimes we're the hand reaching down, and sometimes we're the hand reaching up. And here's the COVID, Michael. In our lifetime, in fact, very soon from now, we will be seeing the beginning of the building of the statue of responsibility, and it will be 305 feet tall to match the Statue of Liberty, and it will have interactive museums and discussions for children, like, what does responsibility mean? And there's, there's many other things, but this is one of the ways that stories can change the world for the better, and symbols and art and imagination can lift us rather than destroy us,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:47 and it should be that way. Well, tell me you've written a number of books that have become bestsellers. How does that happen that they become bestsellers?   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 1:03:58 Well, it can happen a number of different ways, especially you've probably noticed, but publishing has changed tremendously over the last 20 years. Yes, and there used to be a time when traditional publishing was pretty much the only way, and there were a few people who wrote books and and and they would do their best to get it out there. And if it was accepted by traditional publishing, it was such a glorious thing, but most people only sold between 250 and 300 books in their lifetime. And then we had the advent of Amazon, and then we had the advent of self publishing, which I'm not going chronological self publishing, it's been around for a long time. Vanity press, also for a long time, and also indie publishing, which helps to create every service you would get through traditional publishing, but you get to keep your own intellectual property and most. Of your proceeds, rather than the lion's share going to traditional and I've had the luxury and pleasure of being able to work on all sides of that like my first two books were published through a small publisher who took a chance and shattered silence when it was on. Oprah became their number one best seller for two years in a row. So it was a win for them, and it was a huge win for me. And then my third book, when it came out, we had a New York agent, and she negotiated an incredible deal with a chat and Grand Central publishing, which was one of their publishing labels underneath a shet so one of the largest publishers in the entire world, and I got to see all the beautiful machinations that New York publishing offers, all the services, all the wonders of that and the credibility that goes along with it, and and also, since that time, I've also been able to help people with national and international bestsellers on Amazon, and that's a different ball game. It's different than a New York Times or a Wall Street Journal bestseller, and it has to do with there's there's two aspects of it is, number one, making sure that all the information is set up well, and that you're in the right categories, and that you're being seen and being visible. And then the other part of the strategy is that you know, you get everyone that's in your inner circle and anyone and everybody in your family and friends and everything else, to purchase your book on the same day, close to the same time, because it raises your visibility in the ranks. And you want to become a hot, new best seller on Amazon. You want other people's eyes to be able to see it. And if you're lucky enough to have an international team, then you can often become an international bestseller and be seen in countries like France and Australia and Canada and and other things. So it's it can be a game and and you've gotta be careful, because in every every industry, they're scammers, yeah. And in terms of of indie publishing and self publishing and traditional publishing, there are scammers out there, and you've got to watch it, but it's it's a smart and fun business. Part of the business strategy in terms of pre launch, launch and post launch, you just need to make sure that you're working with reputable people who care about the longevity of your book, not just a flash in the pan, but something that's going to serve people and have a ripple effect, you know, you hope for 50 years from now, right? And that someone halfway across the world can be absolutely inspired by your book, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:01 And whenever I get comments from people, even today, some 13 years later, and I think that will continue to happen. But who say I read your book and it's it's such a joy to hear that I'm able to help inspire people and show them something, because it's about it's about them, it's not about me, and that's really the way it should be. Well, last question for you, what's one thing that you would advise someone who wants to write a book for the first time and maybe is a little bit reluctant to do it,   Bridget Cook-Birch ** 1:08:39 so fiction or non fiction? Yes. Okay, I usually have a little different answer, but I will tell you this for whoever your main character is. So if it's non fiction, that main character is going to be you. If it's fiction, you will have an aspect of yourself in that character, but I highly recommend that you put together a chronological timeline, because every good story has backstory, and then it has the current story, and then it also has where you're taking the reader and the journey that you're taking them on. And a lot of times when we're thinking of stories, or writing stories, or writing about our own stories, we'll take down little bits and pieces, but we don't always remember the order in which they happened, or why we reacted a certain way, or certain things happened. When we put together a chronology for our character, there's so much magic that happens. You see patterns of story like, oh, we had this conversation, and then he said this, and I reacted this way, and then I got this phone call, and I said, Yes, and all of a sudden we realized, wow, there were five things that raised the stakes, that built up the tension, that. Created a change in the decision and a commitment to that change, or whatever it might might be, and we understand ourselves better, or we understand our characters better, but we can also tell a much better story to our readers,   Michael Hingson ** 1:10:20 makes perfect sense. And as I think back on thunder dog, although I didn't up front specifically thinking the way you're talking about that is the way the book actually ended up not only being written, but I had the tools that really did go in chronological order. So I was guided to do it, I guess, but it was a lot of fun, and certainly now with the new book, live like a guide dog. We, we definitely spent a lot of time on making sure that it that we did things in a very chronological way, and looked at it a lot of times, kept going back over

This week on the Team Lally Real Estate Radio Show, we interview Nicole Chatterson, Co-Founder and Executive Director of Zero Waste O'ahu. We talk about waste reduction and creating a more sustainable environment.We also have your favorite experts providing this week's tips on property management, mortgage loans, home inspection and home insurance!Who is Nicole Chatterson ?Nicole was born in Palmdale, California and graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Environmental Science and Policy at California State University, Long Beach where she started working with a non-profit group to research the “Pacific Garbage Patch”. She moved to Hawaii not long after the research cruise and continued to work on the garbage patch issues. She started Zero Waste O'ahu in 2019 after she finished her masters in Environmental Anthropology.Zero Waste O‘ahu envisions an island community where waste no longer exists. It is made up of a connected group of individuals and organizations with the mission of providing zero waste education, resources, and programs to build an ethical & responsible consumer culture.To reach Nicole Chatterson, you may contact her in the following ways:Email: oahu.zerowaste@gmail.comWebsite: www.zerowasteoahu.org

This week on the Team Lally Real Estate Radio Show, we interview Nicole Chatterson, Co-Founder and Executive Director of Zero Waste O'ahu. We talk about waste reduction and creating a more sustainable environment.We also have your favorite experts providing this week's tips on property management, mortgage loans, home inspection and home insurance!Who is Nicole Chatterson ?Nicole was born in Palmdale, California and graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Environmental Science and Policy at California State University, Long Beach where she started working with a non-profit group to research the “Pacific Garbage Patch”. She moved to Hawaii not long after the research cruise and continued to work on the garbage patch issues. She started Zero Waste O'ahu in 2019 after she finished her masters in Environmental Anthropology.Zero Waste O‘ahu envisions an island community where waste no longer exists. It is made up of a connected group of individuals and organizations with the mission of providing zero waste education, resources, and programs to build an ethical & responsible consumer culture.To reach Nicole Chatterson, you may contact her in the following ways:Email: oahu.zerowaste@gmail.comWebsite: www.zerowasteoahu.org

Teams from L.A. and O.C. Fire on the way to Florida to help with the Hurricane Milton response. 7-Eleven owners are fed up with robberies, a bank robbery in Palmdale turns out to be an inside job, and is L.A. going broke? The L.A. Local is sponsored by the LA Car Guy family of dealerships.

On Unstoppable Mindset I have rarely met someone who is as outgoing and, yes, as confident as our guest this time, DW Starr. DW's childhood was by no means normal. Within his first six years of life, he suffered a broken leg as well as two traumatic brain injuries that came from automobile-related accidents. He even encountered a third traumatic brain injury at the age of forty, again from being hit by a car. Oh, make no mistake! None of these were the result of carelessness. No matter what, he persevered through all of these challenges.  For nearly thirty years as an adult, he worked in sales for companies and was a top performer. Mostly after his last brain injury he began using mnemonics techniques to help remember things that, for him, were easy to forget. He had developed some techniques as a child, but didn't resurrect them until his last accident. He also began learning more about confidence and how to use it in his own life. He also began working a bit as a performer giving shows to children and adults on how they could improve their own confidence and thus become better and stronger people. Now, his performances and talks are a full-time job. He tells us about his shows and gives us insights into what he does while performing. He even discusses some of the memory techniques he uses during his performances and how he teaches them to his audience.   DW has visited and performed in forty states in America as well as fifteen countries. He is quite an inspiration we all should value and from whom we can learn much. He discusses, for example, the difference between confidence and arrogance and he discusses the difference between assertiveness and aggression. I think you will gain much from DW's time with us. If you visit his website, www.dwstarr.net you can obtain a PDF copy of one of his books.   About the Guest:   DW STARR, confidence expert, performer, speaker and author empowers teens and adults to unleash their hidden confidence superpower to be the superhero in their own lives. DW draws from his multiple areas of expertise to help his teen and adult audiences reach peak performance success. He is uniquely qualified: started selling at 9 years old, endured and survived traumatic brain injury (TBI), over 25 years of corporate experience as a million-dollar sales executive excelling with the largest medical information analytics company on the planet, international award-winning U.S. Army movie/tv director, amateur magician, and author of 4 books with two more in the works. Using their favorite movie and his proprietary S.T.A.R.R. formula, DW empowers and connects with his audiences as he performs his audience-interactive one-man show DW LIVE! and through his transformational speaking presentations. They learn to re-direct the inner movie running in their minds. DW has performed and spoken in 15 countries and 40 U.S. States … His “Confidence Matters“ message speaks a universal language that resonates with people and organizations worldwide.   He lives in Southern Florida with his wife and his dog.   Ways to connect with DW:   INSTAGRAM….. DW_STARR FACEBOOK…….. DW STARR YOUTUBE………. @CONFIDENCECRUSADER TIKTOK…………… @CONFIDENCECRUSADER LINKEDIN……….. DW STARR WEBSITE………… WWW.DWSTARR.NET WEBSITE………… WWW.WOWUNOW.COM/DWSTARR   https://www.dropbox.com/s/q1x0v88barglevm/Teens%20Need%20Our%20Help.mp4?dl=0    MY MISSION TO HELP TEENS   https://www.dropbox.com/s/ffj4d55iyfjwlm4/DW%20Promo%20On%20Site%2034%20seconds.mp4?dl=0  34 second DW Promo     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, wherever you happen to be, we want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, once again, unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet and unexpected gets to be a fun part of what we get to do today, by any standard. And I'm not going to tell you anymore, because I want it to be unexpected until it happens. We do have a wonderful guest today. I love people who are really animated and engage me in conversation and teach us a lot. And that's true of our guest today. DW Starr, and I'm not going to tell you anymore. I'm just going to say, dw, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset.   DW Starr ** 01:57 Hi, Michael, how are you?   Michael Hingson ** 01:58 I'm doing lovely. And you,   DW Starr ** 02:00 I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Did you know that late maybe you, or maybe even your audience? Don't know that Lady Gaga was fired after her first record album, after only three months that Michael Jordan didn't make his high school basketball team, the first time that Taylor Swift was told she was too young for the music industry. Get that and really that JK Rowling, the author the Harry Potter series, was turned down by 12 publishers. Was a single mother, and she was in poverty, and wrote her book in in a in a in a coffee shop. Now the reason I'm telling you that is because all those people figured out how to find the confidence to be the successes they became.   Michael Hingson ** 02:57 And it really is about confidence, isn't it? It is confidence matters, and it's not arrogance, it's confidence. And there's a big difference, correct?   DW Starr ** 03:06 Absolutely, the difference, to me, is authenticity. When someone is truly confident, they don't need to prove it to anybody, because it's internal, it's it's authentic, it's who they really are, and that comes with the good and the not so good sometimes, and the recognition of those things within ourselves. Good point. Well, how   Michael Hingson ** 03:32 did you I'd love to learn more about your story of how you did all that, and maybe you can tell us a little about the early dw and kind of how you evolved over time, as it were,   DW Starr ** 03:43 well, how far back to you? What we just Oh, go   Michael Hingson ** 03:46 to the beginning. What this early memories you got to tell us about you?   DW Starr ** 03:50 I'm two years old. I mean, there you go. I'm two years old. I'm in the backseat of my mother's car, and, damn, I fall out, smash my head on the ground and fracture my skull. Wow, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 04:06 Do you remember that?   DW Starr ** 04:07 No, okay, I just know that. People told me what happened, and then I was lucky. I didn't get run over by a car or a truck. So then I'm six years old, I'm riding my bike, playing, follow the leader, my friend goes across the street. I follow my friend on my bike, and bam, I get hit by a truck. I fly 15 feet in the air, smash, smash my leg on the curb and break my femur, and I hit my head on the ground and go unconscious. Brain Injury number two, when I when I wake up, yeah, when I wake up, I don't mean to interrupt you. I No go ahead times. So if I do that, tell me to stop interrupting.   Michael Hingson ** 04:56 I was just going to ask if you remember that one. Uh,   DW Starr ** 04:58 no. Okay anyway, so you broke your leg, and you hit your head right, and when I woke up my I found out that I had a broken leg, and they had put and then eventually they put me in a cast from my stomach down to both my feet, with a bar in between. So I had a cast on both legs, connected at the stomach area all the way down to my toes, and then a bar in between, so I couldn't even move without being carried around the house as a six year old.   Michael Hingson ** 05:33 Why was there a bar? Oh, so   DW Starr ** 05:36 that the legs would grow evenly, got it, um, and so that I would and so the two, the two, the two legs would be stabilized, okay, otherwise, what I would have two separate casts. So it was one giant cast right now when they took the cast off with, you know, with a buzzsaw, and they took off the cast. My leg had atrophied because it had been in the cast for so long, both of them, actually, and the strength of my leg, the broken leg was still in a healing process. So I had to, I slept on a cow a mattress in my living room, rolled off the mattress and crawled on my hands and knees into the kitchen and taught myself Pediatric Physical Therapy, because it didn't exist back then, and I taught myself how to walk again. Wow, at six, that wasn't really good for my self confidence. When I was crawling around on my hands and knees, I felt, I do remember feeling a little bit like a loser, you know, because I'm six years old, I'm supposed to be able to run and jump. And here I am crawling in my house, and then I go about living my life and different things. And at 40 years old, yep, it happened one more time. I'm in a car on the way to a Billy Joel concert listening to the music of Billy Joel, and I get hit at 55 miles an hour in a car. My wife breaks three ribs, and I hit my head in the inside of the car, so hard I dent the inside of the car with my head, and I don't know it, because what happened was, after that happened, my wife was complaining about these broken ribs. So what? She didn't know they were broken. She just knew she had pain. And so I crawled over the back seat of the car, went out the passenger side. I didn't realize what I was doing. I was on an adrenaline rush, obviously, and I just told her to sit still and everything be fine. The emergency people came. They took us to the hospital. They asked me if I was okay. I said, Sure, I just have a little cut in my in my leg, on my ankle. They said, well, we'll take care of that the hospital. I said, Sure. Went there. She got tested. She was okay, except for the broken ribs, and the way broken ribs heal is just time. So she was okay. We came home, I went to work the next day, and I was in corporate I was in corporate America, working with one of the largest medical informatics companies on the planet. It's one of the top 1000 companies in the world, and I was in sales management, and so anyway, what happened was, a couple days later, I started screaming at her, and that's not my personality at all. So I thought, something's not right. And so we ended up, I ended up going to a couple doctors, and the neuropsychiatrist said to me, I know what your problem is. I went, Oh, good, good, Doc. Tell me what my problem is. He said, Oh, you've had a traumatic brain injury. I said, That's not possible. He goes, Well, why is that? I said, because I've already had two. He said, Well, now you've had three.   Michael Hingson ** 09:14 You know, you just don't know how to keep your head out of the way   DW Starr ** 09:17 you think. And people say you should stay away from cars.   Michael Hingson ** 09:24 You got to mind your head better is what it is. It is so he told you he had a traumatic brain injury, yeah. And   DW Starr ** 09:30 he explained to me that it's a very unique kind of a thing. When you get a traumatic brain injury, you never really know what the long range effects are. He had me read an article about a female steeple jumper, someone who rides a horse and jumps over those, those railings, you know, the steeple jumper, right? And he said she fell off her horse, hit her head, and she had trouble the rest of her life addressing envelopes. Mm. And probably just like you. I said, What? What? What, what, how, what's it doesn't make sense addressing he said, Well, the way it works is that our brain is very, very, very unique, and different pieces do different things, so we never know what your long term effects are going to be. So I was out of work for three months because somebody would say, I want to buy one of these, one of these, and one of these, and I couldn't remember the first thing the person pointed to within, within a split second at the time they pointed to it. So I couldn't work because I couldn't remember. And I was really scared. I was scared that I wasn't going to be able to be a good provider for my family, be a good father to my sons, be a good husband to my wife, and just be okay. But after about three months, things really started to get better, and at that's the time when I remembered, when I was a kid, how I remembered things. Because even as a kid now, remember I had two head injuries by the time I was six. I don't know if the reason I had trouble remembering things when I was six was because of that or not, but I do remember my teacher telling me how to spell arithmetic. I'm doing all the talking here. That's okay, it's funny. It's your story. All right, all right.   Michael Hingson ** 11:30 People have heard mine.   DW Starr ** 11:32 Okay, cool. I gotcha. All right, so arithmetic, a rat in the house might eat the ice cream, A, R, I T, H, M, E, T, I C, a rat in the house might eat the ice cream. And I I love that as a kid, and I remembered that as an adult. And I said, Wait a minute, maybe I can start remembering things by using that kind of a technique, and that's what I did. I started creating memory hacks for myself in different arenas in my life, and that's how I remember remember things, to the point where even today, I use the some of those memory hacks for my own presentations, my own performances. I use my last name star as a memory hack to remember my own stuff. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:34 how long ago? So you had the last accident at 40? And how many years ago was that?   DW Starr ** 12:40 Well, that's going to give away my age. Oh, well, that's up to you. Let's just say I'm somewhere around 60. Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 12:51 so it's been a while, and so you've been using the memory hack, if you will, techniques for for quite a while, and you still use them   DW Starr ** 12:59 to people too. Sometimes, yeah, yeah. Do you ever forget? Let me ask you a question. Michael, do you? Do you ever forget something that you want to remember when you are going from one place to another? I do okay. Do you? Do you? Um? Do you have things that you always like to carry with you when you go from one place to another, like a phone or a notebook or or something like that. I do so do you ever forget them?   Michael Hingson ** 13:33 The things that I carry, typically not. I've gotten into the habit of carrying them and I don't   DW Starr ** 13:38 Okay. We find that that many people do forget things like their their glasses or their phone or their or their keys or whatever. So what I did for myself is I created an mnemonic device called, please bring a kazoo guide. Now, a kazoo is that thing that you play, that you humid like that? Yep. So please, I have one. Oh, you have one. I   Michael Hingson ** 14:07 do not right here, but I have one.   DW Starr ** 14:11 So do I? I got it as a kid? Yeah. So I used to use that in my performances sometimes. So I said, All right, I'll create a mnemonic device. Please bring a kazoo guide, phone, briefcase, attitude, keys and glasses. I never want to forget my good attitude, but I also don't want to forget my phone or my briefcase or my keys or my glasses. So that's the kind of mnemonic device, memory hack that I'm talking about, that I've used for myself to help me be confident and stay confident in my memory portion of my my life.   Michael Hingson ** 14:51 And I use mnemonics for some things from time to time or not so much mnemonics, but something I. Um, oftentimes, when I'm creating something that I want to remember, I will convert print characters to Braille dots, and I will create combinations that for whatever reason I remember to help me not forget the things that I don't want to forget when when I do that so I hear what you're saying, and I appreciate it a great deal. And I think that there's a lot of value in everyone finding ways to remember things. One of the things that I've always been good at remembering are phone numbers, and I work really hard, even today, when I have a smartphone that is very accessible that I can put contacts in and do I still want to remember the phone numbers, because I think that keeps me sharper by remembering things. So I remember a lot of phone numbers, and I've made it a conscious effort to do that so that, and it's worked for me specifically to be able to do that. I remember the phone number that we had when I grew up in Palmdale, California, and I even remember the phone number that I had in them in my dorm at UC Irvine and and some of the other phone numbers like that.   DW Starr ** 16:26 And any of them start with 213,   Michael Hingson ** 16:30 huh? No, mine started with 805, and then 714, because I went to UC Irvine. So it was 714, and I have a friend who, and I still remember it his phone number at UC Irvine, actually, he, yeah, he was a PhD candidate at UC Irvine, but he lived off campus, and his number was 714, Om, war, 1o, H, M, W, A, r1, and I always thought that was a clever way to remember it. Yeah, and I had one, I'm trying to remember. I know the last I've got to think about it. One of the phone numbers that I worked with at UC Irvine ended with jet one, and I don't remember right off. I'll think about it the first three digits, but it's good to have the little acronyms, or not acronyms, but mnemonics and memory devices, and they're very valuable to use, and more people should probably use them, they might remember things better. So   DW Starr ** 17:33 what I figured out, Michael is I figured out why we forget some of these things, and that has helped me help people understand more about building their own confidence, and the reason that we forget these things is because we're already where we're going instead of where we are. We're already thinking about getting in the car, walking into the other room, leaving the hotel, getting off an airplane, we're already thinking about those things as if they're already starting to happen, instead of paying attention to where we actually are at the moment. So this, this memory hack, actually creates something that we all call mindfulness, which is pretty wild, because I never knew that was going to be one of the outcomes. But because of that, I'm able to stay in the present a lot more often, and I like that feeling, yeah, and, and it, it's that's all part of about being confident, is being confident with who you are in the moment   Michael Hingson ** 18:42 you you asked earlier if I have a phone, and remember my phone and other things I know I've stayed in many hotels, and one of the things, again, it's a discipline that I've developed, is that I never leave A hotel key laying on a table, it stays in the pocket, and my phone will either be in my pocket, or if I'm in a hotel room, I will make sure that it is plugged in by the head of the bed, so that when I get up in the morning, it is one of the first things that I touch, and I'm very deliberate about that. But the hotel key, especially, I just have always developed this habit, this technique of never leave it laying around. And for me, there are several reasons. One, I am too much an out of sight, out of mind kind of guy, and so the bottom line is, not seeing the hotel key, if I put it down somewhere, that's going to be a problem. So the better thing is to keep it in a pocket.   DW Starr ** 19:45 Makes sense to me. It works, yep, but,   Michael Hingson ** 19:52 but people really do allow their minds to I think you pointed out very well. Uh, move to, um, away from where we are to where we're going to be, and we lose that control, and we never seem to learn from our mistakes. Or we think, Oh, well, I can just see the hotel key so I won't forget it. Yeah, that works really well.   DW Starr ** 20:19 Well, if you think of if the people in your audience were to think of people who they have in their life, who they feel are confident and would like to have some of that confidence, or somebody in a movie or TV or in a book they read that has has a really good, solid hold on confidence. They'll see that those characters or those people live in the present moment. And so that's a really important piece of the puzzle of confidence. It's not the only thing. Obviously, there's lots of other pieces of the puzzle, but that, like, I say that's, that's an important piece. So, yeah, it   Michael Hingson ** 21:07 is. Well, so you weren't doing any of this coaching, I presume, or hadn't really thought through as much about confidence and so on, before you had your accident at 40,   DW Starr ** 21:25 I was dabbling, dabbling. I I, I was inspired through many different people. In fact, I use a mnemonic memory hack, to even remember who inspired me. It's to rise t, w o r, I, instead of an S, it's a Z, Z e, t, w o r, I, z e, to rise to rise above, to rise ahead, and it stands for Tony Robbins, Wayne, Dyer, Oprah Winfrey, Ronald Reagan, Indira Gandhi, zig zigular, and Eleanor Roosevelt. So I use my name like I said. I use these memory hacks all the time, but those those people, along with Nelson Mandela and his life, were an inspiration to me that I decided that I needed to share my message with the world, and I so I studied these people and saw all the different roadblocks and the different the different things that stopped them, that held them back. And I said, if all these different people, I mean, Nelson Mandela was in jail for 20 years, yeah. And he was put there by the country that he eventually became president of, yeah. So if these people could rise above, to rise above their own circumstances. I certainly could teach myself how to do that too. And so that's what I did. And once I did that, then I said, I want to share this message with the world. And so I I did that for many, many years with adults. And then there's this thing that happened called covid. Yeah, all the speakers, right? It just shut down, yep. And during that time, some of the speakers and performers realized they could use this concept called Zoom. And I did a program in Ethiopia on Zoom, and I saw how successful it was. And this program was with college students and their professors. And up until that time, I had only been working with corporate America and adults, you know, big, big fortune, 500 companies that's all on my website, if somebody wants to look me up, and all the different companies I work for, worked with. But anyway, so during covid, and I did that, and I said, You know what, when I come out of this, I want, I want to make an, a really strong effort to make a big focus on teens and young adults, because I figured something out while I was, you know, while we were in this covid coma, almost at times, it felt like is that young adults and teens were going to their older mentors, whether it was their parents or whether it was their boss, and saying, I don't understand this covid thing. Can you please help me understand this? And their boss and their parents and their grandparents had no clue what to tell them, because they didn't know what to do either. Right, yeah. So what happens is all these young people who have these people on a pedestal, the pedestal starts to drop, and this hurts their the teens and young adults self confidence, to the point where you start seeing all kinds of major issues going on with it, with young people, and it's all over the news, and even even the Surgeon General talked about it, depression, higher rates of suicide, anxiety, heavy social anxiety, and on top of that, social media. So the teens and young adults sometimes can't even talk to each other because they only know how to do it on this machine.   Michael Hingson ** 25:45 Yeah. Or, or with text,   DW Starr ** 25:49 yeah, yeah. Well, that's actually yeah, both computer and text. And like, I'm holding up a phone right now and it says, Bs, Oh, I better tell people what that stands for, or they're going to get freaked out. That reminds me, me, that's my memory hack that stands for belief system. Okay? It says BS, but it stands for belief system. It reminds me that the way I perceive my life is all based on what I believe. If I change my beliefs, I can change my perception, yep. And   Michael Hingson ** 26:28 the other part of that is, if you need to change your beliefs, that is, we should always look to grow. We have a belief system. We have what we believe in. And I'm not saying that people need to question what they believe in, but they should always be open to learning new things and letting that augment their belief system.   DW Starr ** 26:46 Absolutely. Yeah, so that's designed, that BS is designed every time I pick up my phone to remind me if what I believe is in my best interest, if it's healthy for me, and if it's not, then I need to do something about it, you   Michael Hingson ** 27:02 know, during covid. And I'm not trying to brag or sound arrogant or anything, but I know, and I think I can connect it up here. I didn't have a lot of social anxiety. My wife didn't even have a lot of social anxiety. We We went through it, but we also felt we lived in a in a house, the two of us, we live, where we where I live. Now, she passed away in 2022 but, but just she was in a wheelchair. Well, she was in a chair her whole life, and her body just started slowing down. So we lost her in November of 2022 and it's just kind of one of those things, as her physical medicine doctor once told her, you know, the body doesn't come with a lifetime warranty. So it happened,   DW Starr ** 27:46 no, no, just get out of here alive. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 27:48 not in that sense. And you know, but the thing is that we we felt okay. We got a lockdown, we'll lock down. And we did, but we were much more oriented toward, as you would say, living in the moment and not worrying about all the things that we couldn't control. And I can think about that very intellectually and say that's how we reacted to life. We didn't worry about what we couldn't control. We focused mainly on what we could Oh, occasionally we worried about one thing or another, but mostly we just didn't worry about what we couldn't control and focused on the things that we had control over. And we had control over things mail comes in, spray it with a little bit of Lysol, just to play safe. And neither of us ever got ever got covid, but we we always wore masks when we went out. And I still, when I fly, wear a mask, just because you never know. But I also had a lot of fun with masks, because I've told this story a couple times on on unstoppable mindset. We went to a bank one day, and I went into the bank wearing a mask. I was carrying my white K and I didn't use my guide dog. It was a quick trip, so he stayed home, and I walked. We walked. I walked in. Karen stayed in the car because she also had an autoimmune situation with rheumatoid arthritis, so she drove me to the bank, but she felt she shouldn't go in, and I agreed. Anyway, I went in wearing a mask. Go up to the teller, and they all know me there, but I go up and I say, when we when we greet each other? And I said, Hello. And they said, Hello. And then I said, Don't you think it's funny how today somebody wearing a mask can walk into a bank, and then I held my cane up and say, This is a stick up, right? And the manager came over and he said, you know, we haven't had such a good laugh all day, which is exactly why I did it. But you know, we all have choices to how we deal with things and and how we react to things. And I think so often I heard so many people being so anxious about. Using Zoom Zoom fatigue and everything else. And I realized the fact of the matter is that covid offered and still offers us a great opportunity to deal with a lot of things in a different way, and that, rather than having zoom fatigue, use it to your advantage, and unfortunately, we just don't worry about that, because we are so used to doing it one way, we don't get innovative anymore.   DW Starr ** 30:31 Yeah, so it's, if you look at the people, typically, that are most happy in life, it's because they're continually looking for a way to to grow. And it doesn't necessarily have to be financially, it can be spiritually, it can be emotionally, it can be psychologically, it can be financially, it can be educationally, but if that's even a word, educationally, but it works okay today anyway, yeah. But the key I guess, is that if you're continually growing, you're firing this. And trust me, I've studied the brain a lot. You can only imagine after three head injury,   Michael Hingson ** 31:15 have you discovered that you do you need to mind your head and keep it out of the way.   DW Starr ** 31:20 Absolutely, okay, absolutely away from   Michael Hingson ** 31:24 cars, cars. Yeah, please.   DW Starr ** 31:28 So, so what happens is, is that we're, we're, we're continually reassessing our ourselves, that those are, seem to be the people who are the most happiest.   Michael Hingson ** 31:46 I think there's a lot of truth to that they don't worry about the things that they don't have a lot of control over, because all that's going to do is drive you crazy, exactly, and it does. It just drives too many people way too crazy, which is too bad.   DW Starr ** 32:04 I think another thing for me, though that's really important that I want to share, is that that your life doesn't happen by chance. It happens by choice. Yes, and, and, and. So, you know, we, we've all heard this, but, but it's so true that by not making a decision, you're still making a decision. So if you're in a situation, you go, Oh, I don't really know what I want to do about this. Well, you're making the decision not to make a decision. And that, in itself, is a choice. And you always have a choice. Always say, you know, in Viktor frankl's book, A Man's Search for Meaning, which is quite an amazing book, if anyone in your audience hasn't read it and they want to really understand the deep psychological meaning for how people survive the concentration camps, is in his book, he talks, he talks about the the importance of of of recognizing that it's a choice, that it's a choice that they it's your choice to search for meaning. It's, you know, I made a post. I did a post just the other day. I said, it's not what happens to you, it's how you perceive what happens to you. It's not what happens to you, it's what you it's what you feel and think about what happens to you. It's not the actual occurrence itself, it's how you deal with it. And I think that's really important when it comes to confidence, because you can look at failure as failure, or you can look at failure as a stepping stone. I mean, we've all heard this stuff for years, but it's true. That's why we keep hearing it, because it's true,   Michael Hingson ** 33:57 September 11 happened, and I believe that we didn't have any control over it happening. I still don't think that, no matter what happened, we for could have foreseen it coming, but it happened, and that's not something we have any control over, but we all have control over how we choose to deal with it, which is exactly what you're saying.   DW Starr ** 34:21 Yeah, absolutely. And you know, for me, my parents were very dysfunctional. Okay, so I had a choice. I could, I could use that as an excuse not to be happy, not, you know, to be dysfunctional as a parent when I had kids, although, but, but I, I choose to look at those things as as lessons for me to grow from, to become who I want to be, you know. And that's I, you know, there's one thing I want to make sure I say in this podcast, and that's that, you know, somebody once said to me, well, dw, if I could just like, learn how to do. What you're talking about like in five minutes. Five just five minutes because everybody's in a hurry. Everybody wants to right? So five, I say, Well, here's the key. The key is figure out what you want. Figure out why you want it. Keep showing up. Don't let go of that desire. Don't let go of that dream, and then find somebody either in the real world or in the make believe world, meaning movies, TV, books, whatever, or in the real world, a mother, a father, an uncle, a boss, a librarian that you know a school teacher, whatever, find somebody who has the kind of confidence that you want to strive for, and then let them mentor you. And if you don't have a direct connection to them, use what I call a virtual mentor. And that's what I did. Ronald Reagan, Indira Gandhi, Zig Ziglar, Ellen Ro I didn't have any connection with those people, but what I did was I let them virtually mentor me, and that's what I would suggest the person do, and then for two minutes every morning and every night, imagine yourself being like that person, and then for two minutes during the day. Take a situation in your life, whatever it is, and for two minutes be like that person's confidence would be. Act as if you were that confident for just two minutes. You can do it for two for two minutes in the morning and two minutes in the evening, you just imagine you have that kind of confidence. What would that person do in the situation you're trying to be more confident about and then during the day, for two minutes, simply like, let's say you're nervous about making phone calls as a salesperson a cold call, or, let's say that you don't have the confidence you want to have for playing the guitar in front of five friends for two minutes. Just pretend like you're you have the confidence of that mentor, and just act as if you have it. And that's what I did, and over time, eventually I became DW star. That's not my legal name. That's my professional name.   Michael Hingson ** 37:31 I'm curious why Indira Gandhi? Well,   DW Starr ** 37:34 if you look at how big that country is and how populated it is and how, how she was one of the first females to be in charge of a I think she might have been the first female to be in charge of a country that big. And her, her, her personality, her her, her, her graciousness, her, her tenderness was an important piece of what I wanted for my life. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 38:07 yeah. I was just curious, because I figured some people might ask that question if they were here, so I thought it was probably relevant to ask, and I I agree with the answer. Well, so you, you went off and you, you had all these brain injuries. And so was, you were 40. Did you go back to work eventually, for the company that you?   DW Starr ** 38:31 Yeah, after three months, I went back to work. And slowly, well, I went back to work. I, if I were, I'm not sure I remember this, but I went back to work, I think, a few days a week, and then eventually I went back to work full time, and I was fortunate enough to be one of the top sales producers in that company for many, many years, And I worked for that company for, wow, about 30 years,   Michael Hingson ** 39:04 but then you decided to switch what caused. While I   DW Starr ** 39:08 was doing that, I started doing what I'm doing now in a smaller way, and then eventually it just grew and grew to where I was working. So I was selling to some of these corporations, and eventually I ended up doing programs for these corporations through my other act. And oh, by the way, people want to know why I'm dressed like this. You can't see it, but I'm wearing leather pants and leather boots. And that's because, if you go to my website, or you look at the front cover of my book, one of my books, I got, like five books. It's I'm wearing what looks like a movie director's outfit, because I play an old fashioned movie director. And what I do is I help people rewrite the script that's running inside. Their mind that isn't always so positive. So I'm an inner movie director, helping them rewrite the inner script that runs the inner movie in their mind. So I'm dressed as an inner movie director, and that's why I've got the megaphone in the box,   Michael Hingson ** 40:16 just gonna say. And hence the megaphone. And if anybody wants to know how I know about it, because DW told me, yeah,   DW Starr ** 40:22 yeah, and I, and I, and I use that in my presentation, because my presentation is oftentimes also a performance. Oh, I forgot to tell you this. I was in the US Army for three years. I wrote, produced, directed, acted in commercial. Commercials for the US Army stationed in Korea for one year. Cool. Now that's probably some other things I forgot to tell you, too. That's okay. Amber emulet, you know,   Michael Hingson ** 40:54 that's fine, but you so you you became a speaker, you became a performer. You're also a writer. And tell me. Tell me about your books, if you would. Okay,   DW Starr ** 41:07 well, I wrote two books on change, and as I what happens is, just like we're talking about recognizing how to be better, how to evolve. I wrote two books on change, and as I was working with corporations and doing some personal coaching and consulting, I realized that the reason people are having so much trouble with change is because they didn't have enough confidence. So I said, Why don't I help them with their confidence? And that way that'll automatically help them change. And so I shifted from change to confidence, and I'm really glad I did that. So the first two books are on change. The third book was written to be a very easy this is, this is the one I was talking about. And by the way, if they go to my website, they can get a free PDF for that book. What's   Michael Hingson ** 42:03 your website? By the way? Well, we'll do it again later. But what is, since you've mentioned it so many times, sure,   DW Starr ** 42:08 it's D, like dog, W, like wagon, S, T, A, R, r.net, D, W, star, with two R's, dot net. Okay, now what's really crazy, I have to tell you this. I tell this to people, and every time I say it, I think to myself, that's crazy. If you Google me, dw, star, right now, anyone in your audience Googles me, I am fortunate enough to have the entire page with no advertising. It's crazy to me that that that has happened, but it's because I've been able to be prolific in many ways. I mean, I have a song, I have a poem, I have my books, I present I you know, I do some personal coaching consulting. So I'm doing all these different things. So obviously, that's why Google finds all those different things. So anyway about my books? So first two books was change your size and when change means business. This book is be self confident anywhere, anytime and with anyone. It's a 30 page book so that every day, you can be a little more confident in a particular arena of interest in your life, and it lists 30 different ones, and I'll read to you really quickly off the back of the book. In this book, you will learn improve the inner movie and self talk running in your mind. Use actions and thoughts that will propel your success, gain a greater self confidence mindset day by day, and that's what it's designed to do. And like I said, they can get a free PDF copy if they want, if they want to buy the actual book, they can just shoot me an email and we'll take care of that later. It's 10 bucks, and anybody on on your program that they'll get a 20% discount, so we'll send it to him for eight bucks, plus shipping   Michael Hingson ** 44:03 if they if they just say that they heard about it here. Yeah. Okay, great.   DW Starr ** 44:07 And then another book I recently wrote with the partner is is on memory and AI working with AI, and I'm working on another book with that partner now about imagination and AI. And then I'm also working on a book called Confidence matters. I have about two thirds of that book written now, cool.   Michael Hingson ** 44:35 So lots going on. Yeah,   DW Starr ** 44:38 I like to stay busy.   Michael Hingson ** 44:40 Well, tell us about your show, your one man show, DW live, and maybe tell us a story about it, or something that happened in it, a memory you have of it recently and so on. Sure,   DW Starr ** 44:54 sure. Well, you know, I do it with adults, but the ones that really offer. Touch my heart or the younger, yeah, because there are future leaders, and also they're really struggling. I was in, I did, I did a my dwive Live show for the Police Athletic League, and the was Boys and Girls Club after school program at a recreation center here in Florida, in southern Florida, and when I was done, well, like I said, I played old fashioned movie director. I actually teach them very specific techniques that they can do in depth, like what I talked about real quick in the five minutes I go into depth in my program, where they can actually teach themselves how to be more confident, and within 30 days they are. It just happens. If they do it, you have to do the work, but if you're willing to do the work. So I was done with this one presentation, actually was the performance. And people were coming up and getting, you know, the school had the recreation center had bought copies of the books for all the kids. So I was doing some autographing, and one came up to me, and he goes, I really enjoyed that. Well, he didn't say, I really he's I really like that. And I said, Oh, great. And then I always ask people to be more specific so I can know what they like or don't like. And she and he said, I said, So what's, what did you really like about it? And he said, I liked everything. I went, Whoa, that's really cool. And then I said, you want to take a selfie? And he goes, Yeah, yeah. And I said, Okay, give me your phone. And he goes, Mr. DW, I don't have a phone. I don't have a phone. And I said, You, I think I actually was in disbelief. And so I said, Oh, you mean you left it in the class? He goes, No, no, no, I don't own a phone. And I said to myself, that's why I'm here. I'm here to help that son, that of a mother and father who can't financially afford to buy a phone for their son help him still feel like he has value and hope. And so I said, I'll tell you what. We're going to take a selfie with my phone, and then I'm going to make sure the selfie picture gets to your your I think he was called a coach, your coach, and he'll make sure you get to see it. And so they did that. But that was that was an awakening for me, because I knew why. I knew that some of these teenagers, were in situations that weren't ideal, in their family life and in their home life and in their economics and all but it for some reason, it it finally dawned on me that they can't their parents can't even afford to get them a phone when it's so prolific, everywhere, you can forget that. So that was a great that made me feel good, that I was giving back like that well, and that is, that's really cool story. I got plenty more, but, you know, I don't want to inundate people with stories.   Michael Hingson ** 48:37 No, that's fine. So, so tell me, what are the key qualities and skills that people need to learn or that you use to help people become engrossed in the STAR method, the STA RR method, and what does STARR stand for?   DW Starr ** 49:01 Okay, so S, T, A, R, R stands for something that I can remember by using that memory hack. I figured, yeah, and it does it three different times in my program, it stands for three different things, but I always use the same mnemonic so I can remember it. So let's try this. Michael, what, what's one of your favorite movies?   Michael Hingson ** 49:28 Et, perfect.   DW Starr ** 49:31 Who is the star in that movie? ET, okay, so the s, the s in Star stands for the star or the superhero of that movie. Okay, now the T stands for Task. What is the task of that character?   Michael Hingson ** 49:56 Well, in his case, of course, ultimately, it's to get home.   DW Starr ** 49:59 Exactly to get home. Okay? And who is ETS arch villain, the A in Star arch villain,   Michael Hingson ** 50:13 the law enforcement, the military. Okay?   DW Starr ** 50:17 Now the first R stands for reach coach. Now I could have said mentor, but mentor doesn't fit the formula of S, T, A, R, R, so I had to come up with a word, and I came up with Reach, reach coach. That's clever. Who, who in the movie helps the star attain the task by reaching deep and down, deep down inside themselves and finding the confidence they need to find.   Michael Hingson ** 50:44 And I don't remember the actor's name, but the young man, right? You don't need to   DW Starr ** 50:48 know the name. You just need to know the character. Perfect, the boy, the little boy, right? And the final r, what was the reason that et wanted to get home.   Michael Hingson ** 51:04 Well, he wanted to be back with his people, right,   DW Starr ** 51:07 right? He wanted to feel like he was with people he belonged with, right? Or extraterrestrials in this case, right? Well, so, so that's the start, so that's the STARR method, right, right? So what that is, now you take that and you have the audience. I take that and I have the audience take their favorite movie and apply the same formula, so each one of the people in that audience is connected to my concept through something that makes them happy and feel good. Okay? Then I say, Okay, now that you've done that, now what we're going to do is we're going to make your inner movie. We're going to help you rewrite the script to your inner movie. So guess what formula we're going to use, S, T, A, R, R, of course. Yeah, the S stands for star. Well, who's the star they are? What tasks do they want to achieve? So I asked them in the audience, what do they want to have more confidence in? And they and they think about that to themselves, while I have one person up front be the example. And so I bring a student or an adult up front, and I have them be the example and explain their favorite movie, just like I did with you, right? But I'm having the audience do it at the same time. Does that make sense? It does okay. So, so this is an interactive presentation and interactive performance all at the same time. So then the then, who is the arch villain? I have them figure out who the arch villain is in their life. It could be a friend, a so called friend. It could be a brother, it could be a it could be a school teacher. It could be an uncle. It could be, you know, be a number of different people in different roles, but somebody is their arch villain that is holding them back. And if it's themselves, it's the arch villain. And oftentimes I hear that people go, Oh, I'm my own worst enemy, or something like that. I say, okay, but isn't it possible that maybe you heard that from somebody else when you were growing up, that you're no good at you're, you're not a good singer, or you're never going to amount to anything. That's what my father actually said to me, you're never going to amount to anything. That's another story. I don't want to take the time to do that now, but that's part of what I had to overcome, along with the head injuries.   Michael Hingson ** 53:55 Did he say that because of the did he say that because of the head injuries? Or no in   DW Starr ** 53:59 in addition to the head injury, wow, I had to overcome my father's attitude that I would never amount to anything. And also, just as a sideline, my mom had a stroke when she was 15 years old, and was a very angry person as an adult, so I had to deal with a lot of that junk. But anyway, that's another story. So back to what I'm telling you. A stands for Arch villain, then the R stands for reach coach. Who can you create if you don't have a mentor in your life, who can you make a mentor? Or who can you make a virtual mentor? So if you don't have anybody that you really feel comfortable as a 15 year old making your mentor, you know, maybe it's Superman, or maybe it's Barbie, it somebody who has or something that has a kind of confidence you want to gain more of, and you use that virtually. You. To help. And then I walk them through these steps, step by step, which we don't have time for now, and then the final hours, reason. What's the real reason you want to do this? Why is it a burning desire? And I talk about that earlier in the presentation. The importance of it's not, it's not how to do something that's most important. What's most important is why? Because when you know the why, you'll figure out that how. So that's that. So now I've got all that, but that's just a formula. It's not a strategy. So then I walk them through the strategy, and the strategy is S, T, A, R, R, what a surprise. S stands for self assess. Well, that's what they've just done, they've assessed themselves. T stands for take a risk. What risks do they need to take in order to achieve the results they want? And I talk about some of the risks I had. One of the risks is this stuff, notes. Performers don't use notes typically when they're doing a performance, and I was told, don't use notes. It doesn't look good. I said, Well, I have to. I have no choice, but my memory won't be able to remember all my stuff, and I want to make sure I remember. So a couple of those phrases I said to you throughout this program were written down so I remember to say them. So and then the other risk was, of course, that I was told I wasn't going to amount to anything. So who do I think I am? Yeah, I'm nobody special, so I had to get over that hump. So those are my those are my risks and that so the T and star take a risk. I asked them what their risks are, and then the A stands for act as if. And that's where I have them do, where they're where they're at home. And the two minute thing that I talked about earlier, and I go into more depth about that in the presentation too. And then the first star is reassess. See how it's going after a month, see if there's been some major changes. If there have do the final R, repeat, repeat. But if it's not working, you got to go back to the original S, T, A, R, R, and see if you're really clear on what task you really want to you really want to achieve it, who really is your arch villain? And if you your reason is a burning desire, because it has to be in order for you to make the shift to have the confidence you want to have, right? Does that make sense? It does. It   Michael Hingson ** 57:28 makes absolute sense.   DW Starr ** 57:29 And the teens are like, Wow, no one's ever taught me this before. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 57:36 I'm sure that's true. Yeah.   DW Starr ** 57:38 And the and the college kids and the adults. There's plenty of adults that go, afterwards, they go, dw, no one's ever like, broken it down like that. So it's like concrete. I can actually follow this step by step. I give them a handout they take with them at the end that they can follow step by step. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 57:59 All right, I have to ask, since we got the star part, what? What is dw?   DW Starr ** 58:03 Oh, man, I don't usually put this out on on the airwaves. Okay, well, I guess I will.   58:12 I'll leave it to you. No, no,   DW Starr ** 58:14 I'll do it. I'll do it. So when somebody meets me, and they go, Hi, and I go, Hi, I'm dw, and they go, Oh, what's that stand for? And I go, Oh, well, most of my friends call me dw, so you can call me DW too. And that usually works. That's fair, okay, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it here. Yeah, I'm gonna say, why not? Okay, so I say, once somebody gets to know me and understand me more, then it'll make more sense what DW stands for. If I tell them right up front, it's weird, okay, but now that people have heard me and they've listened a little bit about my story and how you know my personality and my my attitude about life, it'll make more sense. So Ringo Starr had a great last name. I loved it. So when it was time for me to become a writer at nine years old, because at nine years old, I started writing little short stories, I called myself my legal first name and star as my last name that became my pen name when I got to be an adult and decided I was going to be this character that helps people with their confidence. I said, Okay, I don't even want to use any part of my legal name. I want a completely different professional name. So I said, Okay, well, what is it that I do. I help people weave their dreams into their life on a daily basis. I'm a dream weaver, dw, and so every time I introduce myself to somebody and say, I'm dw, I'm. Myself that that's where my focus is. Yeah, people to do that, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:06 And I appreciate you telling us that story. And I, I thank you for doing that. Tell me what are some of the common misconceptions about confidence?   DW Starr ** 1:00:18 Well, let's look at politics for five seconds.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:21 No, there's confidence or lack of it or something. But anyway, sure,   DW Starr ** 1:00:24 I'm not, I'm not going to get specific about anything about politics. Oh, I understand. I'm going to be totally generalized. The reality is that if you are truly confident, you don't need to tell anybody or prove it. So if you see any of that in politics, you'll know that there's a possibility that there's some low self esteem floating underneath Yeah. And that's true not just in politics. That's true when you talk to somebody at a party who is using the most sophisticated words they can come up with to try to prove to you that they are smart, that they know their stuff, the most confident people can explain what they believe like you're Five years old, not talking down, but making it their complicated wisdom in a way that it's understandable to people who don't have that education in that particular arena or training. Einstein even talked about that make it as simple as you can, but not too simple. And that's a paraphrase of one of his   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:42 quotes, right? And then there's the common phrase of, keep it simple, stupid,   DW Starr ** 1:01:50 but you know Exactly, yeah. So overconfidence is usually a camouflage for low self esteem, yeah? So what true confidence is is, like I said earlier in the show, it's authenticity. It's being who you are with all your good parts and your not so good parts, whether it's your physical nature, whether it's your emotional nature, whether it's your psychological nature, whether it's your educational background, you're if you're truly confident, then you accept it all, and then you build from there. Yeah, that's my belief, that one ain't changing, nope. And I buy it. I   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:41 think you're absolutely right. I think that we all too often. I think there's a difference. We all too often just don't project the confidence that that we can we I think there's a lot of difference between a lack of confidence and humility. And there's nothing wrong with being confident. There is something wrong with being arrogant, but, but confidence doesn't mean arrogance. Confidence means that you have convictions, you have things that you know and you're certain about them, which is a fine thing.   DW Starr ** 1:03:18 Yeah, absolutely. In fact, some people get confused with aggressive and assertive. It's the same thing. It's that same concept. You want to be assertive. You just don't want to be aggressive, because if you're assertive, it shows your confidence. So if you're in an interview for a job, you want to show that you're assertive in that interview. You don't want to just have that interviewer feel like they're not, that they're not running the whole show, but that the the that you count in the interview, you're just not another number where they're just going checking off the list. You show you show your confidence by being assertive, and it's the same. You know people, you know they get a meal at a restaurant. You see this a lot, in a lack of self confidence. They get a meal at a restaurant, and it's either something they didn't order, period, or it's just not done correctly, and because they lack the confidence, they're not assertive to take a step to correct it, and and that's not aggressive, and that's not a complainer, that's someone who's valuing their their own self worth. So there's these fine lines sometimes that are important to recognize the   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:44 aggression comes in. How you if you decide you're going to deal with the incorrectness of the meal, how you deal with it exactly, and, and, and I know I'm I actually had a situation just last week. I went with someone to a restaurant. I. Yeah, and my food came, and it was cold, and it wasn't supposed to be was supposed to be a hot meal. So when the when the server came back, I just said, Hey, this is cold. Touch it and you can see. And she said, No, I won't touch it. I said, I guarantee you, it's cold. If they could heat it up, I'd sure appreciate it. I wouldn't ever be rude to a person and be obnoxious and say, You dummy, you brought me a lousy meal and all that. You know. Well, what happened was that it came back nice and hot, but it also came back being brought back by someone who I think was the manager. He heard that we had sent it back, and he actually had come over and said, What's the problem? And we explained. And then he was the one who actually brought the meal back, and it was, it was nice and hot, and it was so much better. So but I know I have,   DW Starr ** 1:05:54 I have something I call personal gratitude program, and I've taught that to in corporate America, and I've taught it to my my now adult sons, and that's that when somebody gives me over the top great service, I recognize it, yep, by going to their boss, either personally, in person or by phone or by email or by a form of some kind, and letting them know that I don't take for granted the exceptional service I got. I do that too. It's, it's, it's such an amazing feeling, because when you do that, I'm sure you know when you do that, it's a win win all across the board. Of course, it is the employee feels good, the person who hired the employee feels good, and the next person that employee sees is going to get some of that good, that good vibes to them. And you feel good Absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:00 Well, tell me so you do some coaching. You said, in addition to doing the one man show,   DW Starr ** 1:07:05 very it's, it's very limited, uh huh,   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:09 how do you how do you choose to or who you coach? Or how does that work?   DW Starr ** 1:07:14 It works with, working with, with a client that is clear about their why, and they are passionate about their why, and they just need some guardrails or guideposts to help them figure out how they can find the how got it. So it's very it's very limited, and it's, it's at a it's at a very high level, economically and corporately,   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:54 but mostly you travel and you do your show, and you've clearly been to a lot of states, and I know that because everyone DW told me about the map behind him. So he's been to a lot of states, and he's been to a number of countries,   DW Starr ** 1:08:09 40 states, and I think it's nine countries,   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:13 which is cool. No, it's   DW Starr ** 1:08:15 15 countries. Okay, sorry, 15, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:20 Well, you know, I want to thank you for being here. So tell us once again, if people want to reach out, learn more about you, maybe even contact you. How do they do that?   DW Starr ** 1:08:31 So there's a there's a few ways. One is then go to my website, which is D, w, s, t, a, r, r.net they can find me on Instagram, on at DW star, on LinkedIn, at DW star, they can find me on YouTube and Tiktok at confidence Crusader, confidence Crusader. And, yeah, I think, I think that's good. I mean, if you want to give my email address out, we'll just use the info at DW star.net, that's cool. Certainly shoot me so they can feel free to follow me, or, you know, get a free copy of my a PDF copy of my book, and they can Google me. Like I said, I'm all over there. That's just still crazy to me, that I, I have the I'm I'm lucky enough to have all of that without any advertising.   Michael Hingson ** 1:09:37 It's a great blessing. Well, I want to thank you for being here and being with us, and taking all this time, I've enjoyed it, and I've learned a lot, and I would think and hope that that everyone listening has as well, and that if you, if you like what you heard, let DW know, and I certainly would appreciate it if you'd let us know, you can reach me easily enough by emailing. At Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, e.com, or you can go to our podcast page, which is w, w, w.michaelhingson.com/podcast, and Michael Hinkson is m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, N, yes. And we're on LinkedIn and Facebook and a number of the social media pages too, but love to get emails, and whenever you are thinking about this, would certainly appreciate it if you give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to us and listening to the podcast, and as DW does the one man show and travels and speaks and so on. So do I, if you ever need to Speaker, would love to hear from you. Speaker@michaelhingson.com we appreciate it. But most of all, once again, I want to thank you, dw, for being here with us today. I think this has been a lot of fun, and we ought to do it again sometime, absolutely,   DW Starr ** 1:10:56 you know. And just just a shout out to some of your other your other podcast videos. I had an opportunity to watch you do a fantastic job, Michael, and keep up the good work.   Michael Hingson ** 1:11:10 Thank you. I appreciate it. Well, let's let's do it again. Let's do it again, right? Sounds great.   DW Starr ** 1:11:16 Take care, buddy.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:11:21   You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an

What a combination eh? Well, true. Lindsey Brown is the Senior Social Media Manager for NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) and she also models from time to time. Lindsey was born in the UK to a German mother and a costa Rican father. When she was born her father was serving in the U.S. military based in the UK. As Lindsey explains she now has both German and U.S. citizenships.   Lindsey will tell us about wanting to undertake a fashion career and so after college where she obtained a Bachelor's degree in business, she began to seek a modeling career. She got her wish, but eventually realized that her life calling would take her in different directions.   Eventually in 2019 she joined NAMI as its senior Social Media manager. However, she did not totally drop modeling. Who knows, you might see her picture somewhere.   We talk a great deal about various aspects of mental health. Lindsey talks freely about her own mental health issues including burnout.   About the Guest:   I embody the essence of a multi-hyphenate, navigating the realms of a "slash culture." Born in the UK to German and Costa Rican parents, I hold citizenship in Germany and the US, setting the stage for my diverse journey. My passions, evolving into career paths, sprouted early. A love for travel, fashion, and mental well-being, my personal "peace," became integral to my identity. At 21, my foray into the fashion world began when I signed with my first modeling agency in New York. From runway to print, e-commerce to fitting, I collaborated with renowned outlets and brands like Essence, Marie Claire, Ashley Stewart, Soapbox, and DevaCurl. Adapting to industry shifts, I transitioned to become a fashion buyer in menswear and footwear, bridging the creative and business facets. To refine my skills, I pursued an MBA while concurrently juggling my roles as a buyer and a model. Today, my titles encompass Model, Senior Social Media Manager for NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), and Freelance Brand Consultant. A dedicated community builder, my role at NAMI enables me to establish safe and positive online communities for individuals navigating mental health. Additionally, I collaborate with social media platforms to enhance safety and user experience. My journey is a testament to the harmonious blend of diverse passions and impactful work.   Ways to connect with Lindsey:   ·      Social Media Links o   Personal accounts §  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lindseygene_/ §  LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindseygbrown/ o   NAMI §  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/namicommunicate/ §  X - https://twitter.com/NAMICommunicate §  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/NAMI §  LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/nami §  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@nami?lang=en §  YouTube - @NAMICommunicate §  Threads - https://www.threads.net/@namicommunicate ·      Website – nami.org     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Today we get to talk to Lindsey Brown. Who's Lindsey Brown? Boy? Are you gonna find out by the time this episode is over? It's interesting. Lindsey describes herself as the essence of a multi hyphenate, which I love, and we'll have to really talk about that. And she exists in and embodies a slash culture, another thing that we need to talk about, and so many other things. So I think we're going to have lots of fun and lots of questions. And Lindsey, I know, has a lot to talk with us about. She's going to talk to us also about NAMI, and we'll get to that as well. But for now, let's start with Lindsay. I really want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and thank you very much for being here.   Lindsey Brown ** 02:10 Thank you for having me. I'm excited well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:14 and I am as well. It's been fun getting to know you a little bit and reading information about you and so on. So here we are. Well, let's start with the real early Lindsay. Why don't you tell us about Lindsay growing up and some of that stuff.   Lindsey Brown ** 02:28 Oh, that I have some people say little Lindsay, um, I take it. I'll take it back to to the beginning, right? Um, so a long   Michael Hingson ** 02:36 time ago in a galaxy far, far away, alright,   Lindsey Brown ** 02:39 put a little, a little age on me. My mom is from Germany. My dad is from Costa Rica. He became a citizen and came over with his family and lived in New York, joined the Air Force. They got together, and I was born in the UK. But   Michael Hingson ** 02:56 were you on a military base or something because you don't have UK citizenship? You indicate,   Lindsey Brown ** 03:01 no, I have German citizenship, German music, German and   Michael Hingson ** 03:05 American. But you were born in England, but don't have UK citizenship?   Lindsey Brown ** 03:09 No, I, from what I gathered from my parents before it was at one point, everybody was trying to, like, immigrate into the UK. And so therefore it was kind of like, you can't just have a child here and then become a citizen. I do have a right to be a citizen of Germany, so I've always wanted to hold on to that heritage. Well, yeah, we didn't live, actually, on base. That was one of my parents saying they never wanted us to live on base. So I actually, when I was younger, I understood that my dad worked for the Air Force. I had no context that that was part of the US and the US government and the military. I was like, Oh, he does this. He works on planes, and he leaves, he goes away for a bit, and then he comes back.   Michael Hingson ** 03:55 Yeah, go ahead.   Lindsey Brown ** 03:57 So then we came over to the states. We ended up settling in Virginia. I went to school in at Great Bridge. I went all the way into high school, and then I went to college at ODU. I always said I did. I created their online version. Originally, I said, I told my parents, I'm going to be a pharmacist. So I started doing my undergrad, became a pharmacist tech, started working at Rite Aid, and then I realized it just wasn't my passion. And so then I came to them, and I said, You know what? I think I want to work in fashion. That's my calling. And I want to, I want to model. And as any immigrant parents, they looked at me and said, you're going to do what? And my dad was like, Okay, sure. My mom said you will finish school. And I got signed to a local modeling agency in Virginia. And then about a year later, I had this grand idea to get signed. I said, if I'm going to model, I'm going to I'm going to get signed by like, a big agency. So I could really do this. And so I put in a piece of paper, and I wrote down all the modeling agencies that had a plus size board in the US. And I told my mom, if everybody tells me now, I will let it go. So we go to New York. I go to Wilhelmina. That was the first one I went to. They immediately told me, No. I made my mom walk down Seventh Avenue. She'll never let me forget it, because I thought Seventh Avenue was really short. It is not I want to say we probably worked walk for a good 20 minutes, and I went to msa models, and I had met one of the casting agents at an event in Orlando. And I will admit I lied, and I I said, I have an appointment with Anthony. And they said, Oh, okay. And I met with Anthony, and he said, Oh, I remember you and I got signed that day.   Michael Hingson ** 06:05 Well, that didn't totally please your mom, or did it?   Lindsey Brown ** 06:11 My mom has always been supportive, like she's kind of like, if you want to do it, have a plan and I'll support you. So the agreement was, you're going to go to school still. And a lot of my teachers are great. I would explain to them in the beginning of, you know, school or class, I would say, you know, hey, I have a full time job. I work out of New York. I work as a model. And most of them said, Oh, that's really cool. You know, will work with you on your assignments, or sometimes I would have to take a test early, and then I think I only had one professor ever say to me, like, you do what? I don't think he believed me. So I said, you know, I can forward you every email I get from my agent. Because who, who we if I was just going to skip school, I that wouldn't be my lie, like I could make up something a lot easier than I'm going to New York and I'm going to a casting or I'm shooting, and within two weeks, he said, Okay, you were telling the truth on that. Like I I've never heard of that before. Um, and I modeled all the finished school, and I modeled until full time, until, I want to say I was 25 ish, and then wanted to one. It was the industry always changes, right? So you were kind of looked at as a mannequin. Necessarily. You're you don't have kind of autonomy of your career. What if you a size 10 is in, like, kind of in, in, right? Then that's what you're doing. If you're a size 12, you're kind of morphing yourself, trying to be a part of this industry. And I realized at one point it I may not have a full time career of this. Maybe I should do something more of like a nine to five. So I moved back with my mom in Fredericksburg from Brooklyn. That was a little bit of, you know, life awakening, as I call it, but I was able to get a job working at a clothing store, and was a manager there. I always say, you know, you start somewhere, but you know you have transferable skills. So I was around 2526 managing like a team of like 10, and then I knew I wanted more, so I started working at the Marine Corps Community Services as a buyer in menswear. So for people who've never been on a military base, there's something I call like a big mall. So if you put, like a Macy's together, a Home Depot, a Best Buy that's worked on every military base around the world, and I worked for the Marine Corps, so and I bought men's clothing, and then I switched over to shoes. So I bought, I always tell people it's the most fashionable job you can have in the military. I bought Steve Madden, Dolce Vita, like fun, trendy shoes. So I'm telling people like the the new trend this, you know, this year's plaid has nothing to do with military boots or anything.   Michael Hingson ** 09:09 And so go ahead. No, go ahead.   Lindsey Brown ** 09:14 And then, of course, I think that's where I started my as I call it, splash culture, right? Because I was still doing modeling jobs. So some people would know me as the model, some people would know me as a buyer. And I really got interested at the intersection of marketing and social media, and so I started going back to school, getting my MBA in international marketing.   Michael Hingson ** 09:38 What did you actually get your BA in? What did that end up being?   Lindsey Brown ** 09:41 Business Administration, okay, minor in fashion, because my parents weren't into the idea of me doing a whole degree in fashion.   Michael Hingson ** 09:52 Little compromise never hurt, right? It's   Lindsey Brown ** 09:54 a compromise, right? So, like, I was like, you know, what a minor, A minor, we can do that. Um. And and so then I started, I realized that, again, my passion wasn't being a buyer, a buyer in fashion. It sounds like you're going to be at these fashion shows and it's going to be fun, and it's not saying it's not fun, but it's more so you're doing you're in Excel sheets all day long. And I was more interested in the marketing of you know how to get people to buy these products, not just purchasing the product, right? So I went to school, started working and getting my MBA, and then knew that if I want to switch over to marketing, well, who would hire me? Because I don't have a background in marketing at all. So that was when the influencer on Instagram kind of career was kind of taking off. So I said, Well, if I can create my own social media following, then at least maybe I can work with other brands, and I could use that to build a portfolio so I can get, as I call it, quote, unquote, a proper nine to five. So that actually worked. I would never call myself a full time influencer, but I was able to work with different brands and then build out a portfolio. And when I got to graduate from my MBA, it was December of 2019, and I was super excited, because then I got a job for a travel company, and I love to travel, so I just thought to my this is perfect. I have my MBA. At that point, I was living in Woodbridge, Virginia, and I knew that I wanted to live in DC for a while before I found another place to live. And then the pandemic happened, and having a travel job in the pandemic is not great, like wrong move,   Michael Hingson ** 11:53 but you didn't know it at the time. Had no   Lindsey Brown ** 11:56 idea. And so the company, I was there for maybe five months before obviously they had to do layoffs, and I worked freelance for a while of that. And then I always say the universe brings you where you need to be. And that's when I started working at Nami as their social media manager. And Nami is the national line to mental illness, so it is the largest nonprofit that works to a racial stigma surrounding mental illness and mental health and gives people in their communities actually supporting services.   Michael Hingson ** 12:33 Again, not something that you had planned on doing, necessarily at all.   Lindsey Brown ** 12:38 No, but I love the idea of community. And little did I know that, necessarily, in in the world, as during the pandemic, a lot of people were dealing with anxiety and depression, and also we talked, you know, we can talk about it now, burnout, yeah, in the mix, 2019, I was burnt out and didn't know it. I was also experiencing anxiety and didn't have the word for it. So I would just say, like, I'm just overwhelmed. So I always say, I came to Nami and I learned a vocabulary, a vocabulary list, right? And I can say, Oh, this is my anxiety peeking out here, connecting with the community. And I can see the beautiful part about my job is that a lot of times, let's say, when I was a buyer, you're not seeing how somebody purchasing a product changes their day. But on the back end of being working as the head of social media, I see people's comments where they're saying, you know, this post saved my my life, or this really helped, you know, my child learn about the depression they're experiencing. It makes the work worthwhile,   Michael Hingson ** 13:49 right? So, how so Nami and being well, I was going to say Nami is certainly a whole lot different than what you've done, but at the same time being the social media person that's really getting into more of, in a sense, the marketing that that you already had some familiarity with,   Lindsey Brown ** 14:10 right? Exactly? So it's kind of like having a career passion of saying, I I'm good at social media, I'm good at the marketing part, and then finding the intersection of what actually gels with me. And for me, it's really about helping find people, find their community. And what I always used to say is like, I'm trying to just, you know, preserve my peace, which is also kind of like preserving your mental health. So I'm helping people, in my version of it protect their mental health. Learn about mental health. Don't feel scared about actually saying like, Hey, I'm experiencing X, Y and Z. Finding support. The amazing thing about Nami, there's it's federated model, so there's over 600 affiliates nationwide. So if you want to learn about mental health, that you're looking for support. Education family member is there's an affiliate close by, and I'm helping with my passion of marketing, bring people to health and care.   Michael Hingson ** 15:10 And for you personally, with the pandemic hitting and so on, what made you realize that you were experiencing burnout, and kind of, how did it manifest itself?   Lindsey Brown ** 15:26 For me? I was I always felt like I had to be doing something. I realized I couldn't relax unless somebody around, like, you know how people say, like, Oh, I'm going to Netflix. You chill all day long. I can do that if somebody else was in the room, because we're doing it together. But I didn't know how to relax by myself. But I also felt overwhelmed, and I would want to sleep, and then just feeling almost always, I say like the rabbit hole effect, where, if I have five minutes apiece, then my brain is going like, what about this, what about that, what about this, what about that. But the other part of me says, Are we supposed to be relaxing right now? And I couldn't. And so coming into Nami, I can say that the company overall is really supportive of employees talking about their mental health and, you know, resources. So it helped me finding other people who were experiencing the same thing, but also I'm researching these topics to talk about on social media. So it got me to actually do a lot of the work that I probably wouldn't have done alone.   Michael Hingson ** 16:35 So what have you learned from all of that   Lindsey Brown ** 16:38 everybody needs a mental health toolkit, and I say it the version of, you know, it can't for me. I can say it helps with if I'm eating right, am I hydrated? Am I getting enough sleep? Working out? I learned funny enough. I learned that I was doing an IG live, or assisting with an IG live, between our chief medical officer, doctor Ken, and one of our ambassadors. And they were talking, and they said, you know, oh, there's, you know, study, if you do, like, 10 minutes of workout a day, you know, it can help with your anxiety. And I was like, huh, that kind of does make sense, because when I work out or go for a walk, I do feel better. Who would know? Who knew that? But I learned that on that IG life, right? Having a vocabulary word for it actually really helped. Instead of saying, I'm feeling overwhelmed, I feel tired. Those are maybe symptoms, but that's actually not what I'm experiencing. I'm experiencing anxiety. So being able to, you know, talk with, you know, I called my community so my friend, family and friends, if they're like, hey, you've seen a little bit off. My anxiety is kind of a little I can say that my anxiety is kind of off today. And then also, for some people, you know, I have gone to therapy before, I feel like maybe, you know, it's always good to have a consistent therapist. But I tell people, you know, there's no harm in going to see a therapist if you need to be on medication for it, but everybody kind of needs to find what works for them to as I call it, keep to protect your peace.   Michael Hingson ** 18:11 So does that? Are you suggesting that most people should, in one way or another, have a therapist, or at least they need to be thinking about their mental health. That isn't necessarily a therapist, but they need to be understanding it and studying it. I   Lindsey Brown ** 18:27 think everybody should be intrigued and learned about learn about their mental health just like you have your physical health. So you may go to a doctor, or, let's say, if you tripped and you sprained your ankle, right, you would probably go get that checked out, or you would wrap it same thing with your mental health, necessarily. Hey, I feel a little bit off. You know your body intuitively. So if something feels off, and it's not maybe your physical health, or it could be your mental health, maybe you're not getting enough sleep. Maybe it's these different aspects. Maybe you're experiencing trauma for the first time, different things that are happening. It could be your physical or your mental but you need to care about both of them.   Michael Hingson ** 19:08 How do we get people to talk more about the idea of mental health? And you know, there's so many aspects of that. I know that a few years ago, when we were talking about in as a society, the whole concept of of end of life and people passing and making arrangements and so on. And there were, and are a number of people who poopoo that, but it is also part of mental health. But in general, how do we get people to talk about and accept that it's okay to talk about mental health?   Lindsey Brown ** 19:38 The silver lining of the pandemic was that people started talking about it. It was the first time, collectively, we're all in the house experiencing maybe emotions or feelings that we haven't before. And the world learned like, oh, that's anxiety, that's depression, and let's talk about it. The biggest thing is actually, for people. Hope to get comfortable talking about it. Mm, hmm, there was a culture prior that, you know, oh, that's something we talk about in the house. We keep it with our family. We don't discuss it. And that's not how you get people to care. Is to, you know, hide your secrets and keep you sick, right? So talking about it just how me and you were having a conversation today, and somebody could listen to it and say, like, Oh, I feel comfortable. That's what I've been experiencing too. Where can I get help? Maybe I should have a mental health toolkit. I never thought about that before. Maybe I should check out my local Nami. It's taking away those barriers and actually accepting people, and especially when people are talking about it, not to shame them. Yeah, to actually, you know, lead with empathy and learn more about it.   Michael Hingson ** 20:45 And again, talking about it doesn't mean you go up to everybody on the street and you say, I want to talk about mental health, but it is, it is also being a little bit strategic, but still doing it, and having a plan to really address mental health. And it makes perfect sense to do? Mm,   Lindsey Brown ** 21:01 hmm, absolutely. I mean, it's not like if you went to the doctor and you got, I don't know, a bad, you know, physical. You're not going to run up to everybody and say, hey, my physical results were horrible today. Like you're not doing that. But you pick and choose who is your community and who you feel safe to talk to about it.   Michael Hingson ** 21:19 Yeah. Yeah. And it gets back to your community and and you, you need to develop, I think everyone needs to develop a cadre of some sort of of people who they can talk to. And all too often, we don't. We think it's all us. We're, we're totally independent. We don't need to to have or involve anyone else. And I am really a great fan of something that Gandhi once said, which is interdependence is and ought to be as much the ideal of man as a self sufficiency. You know, we're not always self sufficient by ourselves right   Lindsey Brown ** 22:00 No, I totally believe that. I used to feel at one point that I could do everything and I and I can learn from people, but I don't like to ask for help, right? And I learned that doesn't work. I said to my friends, I don't want to be the strong friend anymore. I need help. I need I want support, and I don't want to just reach out when everything is in shambles or I feel like I can't manage it anymore. Sometimes it just helps to talk. I mean, sometimes I call my mom or a friend and I say, like, can I vent? Do you have time? Because y'all see you want to check before you just unload on people. But hey, can I? Can I talk to you about this? Because I am having a day,   Michael Hingson ** 22:46 yeah, what if, if there is a specific thing, what really turned your attitude and your idea around to the point where you started to believe in the whole idea of talking and communicating and recognizing that it isn't, you know you you're not. No one does everything, just totally on their own.   Lindsey Brown ** 23:06 I can say part of it happened during the pandemic where I went through being laid off, and that was the first time I can say that I was questioning and my, I guess, to say my sources of income kind of dried up, right? Because we're in the pandemic, and we all didn't think we could go outside. I was worried, but then I also felt shame around it. And I was talking to two of my close friends, and they reminded there's no shame in you losing your job. And one of my friends sent me, and I think it was like an Uber Eats, like gift card. Like, she was like, buy yourself a good meal tonight. I love you. And even though it's not like I had money to pay for my dinner, but it was that small act of Yeah, them, letting me know it's okay and not to feel shame. And then that again, just checking in on each other. And I was like, I feel better. I feel like I can do this. And necessarily, I didn't need someone to help me apply for jobs, but maybe needed that community support of like, you got this,   Michael Hingson ** 24:11 you got this, and we got you, yeah, and, and that's important, and we we shouldn't shun that and we shouldn't try to throw that away. Well, no, I don't need you to have me. I got me and because it's all about again, community, right?   Lindsey Brown ** 24:30 Yeah, for sure. I mean, I always you don't have to do this thing called life alone and where you may feel that something is happening in your life where you can feel shame, or you feel like I am alone, there is probably someone out there who has gone through it or going through it, and they can help you, or they have advice or tips, or, Hey, this worked for me. You should try this. Well, you would never know if you didn't start the conversation right. Or.   Michael Hingson ** 24:59 It might be that you end up helping them because you enter into that same conversation, and it may very well help you, but it also helps them exactly. And there's again, nothing wrong with that well, so you you work at Nami. Is that a nine to five job? Nine to five? Yep, there you go, so what do you do between five and night and nine the next day?   Lindsey Brown ** 25:26 Well, I still model. So if a good I say, job comes by, I will still model. So I mean, there's been times where somebody says, Isn't that you? And I'm like, I that is me. Because you never know where things will get released, the world we posted. I'm like, yep, that is me. I work with local businesses in the DC area to teach them, actually, about social media marketing. It's the one thing that, if I have this knowledge, and a lot of times a small business, or, you know, a solo entrepreneur, they don't always have time to learn the nuances of social media and marketing and how it can better them. So part of it, of I feel like giving back, is, you know, explaining that to them as well. And also I take on different brand trips necessarily. I just went to curl fest, which is a big festival in New York that happens. I think last year's like 30,000 people there. So that's where I say slash culture. So it is. I don't just consider myself the Social Media Manager of Nami. I do other things as well. I don't think you have to be one thing only.   Michael Hingson ** 26:36 So you you have several careers going at the same time. What do you think about that? Because I know there are a lot of people who would say, I can't do more than one at a time, and you clearly love to do several.   Lindsey Brown ** 26:53 Yeah, I do, um, I feel like it kind of changes with life, right? So there are times when I take on more freelance opportunities, and there are times when I, you know, cut back on them. I feel like you have to do a work to work well. For you, I don't tell people, Hey, I'm doing this, and you should do it too, right? If you are working a full time job and you're fulfilled by that in life, do that and be happy about it. There's something about saying working your job and going home and doing whatever makes you feel happy, right? So for me, it could be that, hey, I've, I'm working, you know, for NAMI during the day, and, oh, well, I have a photo shoot that I'm going to, you know, go to that night, necessarily, or I might be taking a phone call and meeting with, you know, a local business to talk to them through their social media plan. It's not like I'm consistently every single day from, you know, five to nine, then working on a freelance opportunity, right?   Michael Hingson ** 27:48 So it works out well with NAMI and we have the, I assume that sometimes you may have a photo shoot or something that comes up during the day.   Lindsey Brown ** 27:56 I think you always have to have your priorities, right? So Nami is my priority. I would never, I mean, it's my full time job, right? So I would never take an opportunity and say, like, well, Nami will be okay, right? That that's not the way you, you know, you run a business, and I look at it that I have to make sure the main position is, you know, fulfilled and done well. And if I can take maybe a sick day or take a personal day and explain, yeah, that was what I was getting at, right? Yeah, there's, there's open communication. You don't just necessarily call in and say, like, Hey guys, I'm out today. I have a photo, right? That's disrespectful, and you're not setting up your team for success. So it's planning it out well and choosing your opportunities that you can lean in on.   Michael Hingson ** 28:36 And I'll bet the other part about that is that the NAMI folks are pretty proud of you for all the things that you're accomplishing.   Lindsey Brown ** 28:44 I would know. I think they are. I mean, everybody's really been always very supportive. I think the beautiful part about, you know, taking on other freelance marketing clients is what you may learn in another industry will actually maybe work and bring it into the NAMI community to say, you know, hey, we haven't thought about this in marketing. Oh, we should try this on social media, right? So it's kind of taking those transferable skills and bringing them into your different opportunities.   Michael Hingson ** 29:09 What would you say to someone else who might want to add another career or explore doing more than one thing in their career path and adding something else to their title.   Lindsey Brown ** 29:24 Do it. There is not. Do not wait. You know, it's why not? Why wait in your life to say, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have tried that. Try it now. It doesn't mean maybe that will come out to be something you're getting paid for. Could be a hobby, right? And that you may get paid for it every once in a while. But I would say, take the opportunity. If you have a full time job, make sure that you are still fulfilling your full time job needs. Your bills need to be paid, and you should be respectful of the people that are hiring you to do so. But I would say always take the opportunity you don't know. Or they'll, you know, they'll lead you to,   Michael Hingson ** 30:01 yeah, I think you said it best when you said you also do need to recognize and keep your priorities. And if you have a full time job, and you've made that commitment, then, unless there's some reason to change whether that's your full time job or not, then it's a matter of keeping your priorities straight, too exactly,   Lindsey Brown ** 30:20 and then also personally, right? You don't want to experience burnout, so you don't want to take on too many opportunities at one time, and that becomes your norm. And then you experience burnout, because your freelance opportunities should be something that also fulfills you. So if every day you're burning yourself out and you're burning you know the families at two ends, well, your mental health and your physical health are a wreck. Then yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 30:45 and that gets back to burnout and stress and anxiety. Yes,   Lindsey Brown ** 30:49 and that is something I am I try to manage. And there are sometimes when I look at opportunities, no. And no is a great word, and it's fine to have boundaries. Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 31:04 Tell me a little about Nami, exactly what it does, how it works, and so on.   Lindsey Brown ** 31:09 Yeah, Nami is, like, I said, it's a federated model. So there are over 600 like affiliates around the country, and it's really a place where I say it's all about community. It's people, where people can get, you know, resources, education, support groups and to help people, one to learn about mental health conditions, learn about mental illness, maybe get help. But it's also for people to meet people who are experiencing the same things they are. It's peer led. So instead of, you know, if you go to a doctor and they say, like, well, this is the five things about depression, you should know that's great. But hey, I have depression and I'm a mom, how do I actually deal with, you know, having a full time job and having, you know, kids? How do I deal with that? Well, you would feel much better if you met another mom who's experiencing the same thing, who could give you advice as well? So you're going to support group, necessarily, it's a beautiful thing that there are so many affiliates, because help is close, it's not far away, and it's free.   Michael Hingson ** 32:15 So, so there are support groups, and I assume that happens, there are affiliate meetings,   Lindsey Brown ** 32:24 yes, so everybody would have their own schedule and again. So the lining of the pandemic, a lot of things that were only in person now are so online. So a lot of times, affiliates will have these meetings, and necessarily, the programs and the resources also online for people to, you know, have an easier method of, you know, reaching out and getting the help. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 32:45 How do you respond to the people who say, Well, yeah, the pandemic is is over, and we really need to get back to normal and get back to just being in the office, and this hybrid stuff is ridiculous, and too much zoom, weariness and and all that.   Lindsey Brown ** 33:04 I say as I mean, I'm not a CEO, but I think it opened the conversation, right? Because what it what is normal? Who set that standard, right? So let's have the conversation, is most of the staff happy to be in the office? Then make the opportunity to be in office is hybrid. Give people options remote. That works too. It also opens up your playing field of necessarily bringing in different types of employee, because you may have someone who could be amazing at this one job, but they're not local. Can they do the job remote? I think it's everybody saying the pandemic is over. Well, one, covid is still a thing. It's not going anywhere. I think we just know how to manage it better. But I think it shook up the world to talk about what is quote, unquote normal. Does it need to be the standard anymore?   Michael Hingson ** 33:55 Yeah, well, covid clearly isn't going away, and while we're managing it, at least for the moment, we're not getting any major new version of it or strain that is taking us back to where we were in 2020 and 2021, but it's still here, and it is something that we all should be aware of exactly.   Lindsey Brown ** 34:23 So, I mean, I let's have the conversation for people who say, you know, we no one should work remote anymore. Well, that's great. Well, find a position or company that is fully in the office, because there could be another company that says, hey, we're fully remote, and they'll attract, you know, employees that love being fully remote.   Michael Hingson ** 34:45 Yeah, there's room for all of it. And my perception, personally is that there is a lot of merit for the hybrid concept. But even then, hybrid is. Something that we each ought to have some some control over. But there is value in being in the office for a lot of people, at least part of the time. But I think people are realizing more and more about this whole idea that working remote, or being able to do things at home, and then also being able to address other issues in your life is a very important thing, but it also does get back to what you talked about before, with priorities. I was talking with someone yesterday on another episode, and he was talking to me about someone who he was working with as a coach who worked remote all the time, and this woman who he was talking with said, you know, I don't have time to do the laundry or anything like that. I got to always do my job, and you're working remote. What do you mean? You don't have the time. We've gotta really work a little bit more. All of us do it. Putting things in perspective,   Lindsey Brown ** 36:09 for sure, I there's when the pandemic happened, right? And we were working at home. You do realize, oh, I have necessarily, I can throw this, you know, in the washing machine really quick I can, you know, empty up my dishwasher. The reality of the of the matter is, though, if you're working a nine to five, or even if you're an entrepreneur, I do believe in setting boundaries. So when I'm working my nine to five, I'm working my nine to five, typically I'm not, you know, then also folding my laundry where I'm running a meeting, or, you know, going out to the grocery store in the middle of my workday. Now, if you choose to do it during your lunch, and your team is flexible that way, have at it. For me, I like to I learned that multitasking sometimes leads me to make more mistakes that I'm that I would be like, well, if I was focused on this, I wouldn't have missed that. So I try to, when we're working, we're locked in and we're working, and when you take breaks, or you're on lunch break, then you can do all those extra little things. But it's not a place where, hey, I'm laying in bed and the blankets over my head, and I'm kind of, you know, watching TV and I'm in a meeting at the same time. I can't function that way. Yeah, but I always say for everybody, you have to find what works for you.   Michael Hingson ** 37:28 Well, I think that there is a lot of merit to when you're working, you're working, and I think that's probably really true for most people, but we do need to really plan our day, or plan what we're doing. And again, it gets back to priority. I can be in some meetings where I'm not leading the meeting and maybe mostly just a listener, and I can actually stand up and go out and feed a dog if it's at the right time, because my guide dog, Alamo, is pretty insistent on when he wants to eat. But I can do both because I have a wireless headset and I'm not looking at the screen right. And so I can do that and still participate if there's a need to. But I also recognize sort of like, well, when doing a podcast episode like this, the last thing I can do is get up and go do anything else for a variety of reasons. That doesn't work, but the big reason it doesn't work is because it is my job and it is what I'm supposed to do, to focus on doing this and doing it right, and doing it well.   Lindsey Brown ** 38:33 Exactly. One thing I noticed too, is that before the pandemic, we used to do phone calls. Do you remember that?   Michael Hingson ** 38:41 I've heard of that   Lindsey Brown ** 38:44 the phone and now everything has to be a zoom call, and everybody's on camera. And what I love about Nami is that we are accepting of, hey, we can have a meeting, but you don't have to be on camera. And every day is in a camera day, we can turn our cameras off. I started with my team officer to say, Hey, do you want to just do a phone call? We if you can't get through zoom to work, or if it's, I don't, I don't want to be on camera today. I just want to, you know, do a touch base and hang up the phone. Yeah. I was laughing with my mom before, because she loves face time, and I told her one day, I said, you know, after a day of meetings, you know, on Zoom, I actually don't want to be on camera anymore. Can we do a phone call?   Michael Hingson ** 39:32 Yeah, you know, and I'm a little different, because I don't, I don't mind being in zoom, whether the camera's on or off, but that's because I'm not really looking at it, but I realize that for some other people, it may very well be an important thing. So I like zoom here you go, because the audio is better than on a phone call. But by the same token, I have no problem with doing things on a phone again for. Me, it's the same headset that I use so I can be on a phone call or a zoom call, and either one is fine with me. So I want to do what is more comfortable for other people, but I do find often that when people talk about let's do a zoom thing, it's as much habit as a need, and there isn't necessarily the need, but it's just the habit that now that's what they do.   Lindsey Brown ** 40:25 It's the norm. Yeah, so, I mean, I always have the conversation. I have a conversation with your team, or whomever you know necessarily fits in your personal life. I think it's just talking to people and asking, What do you prefer? Do you have time today? Do you want to do a zoom call date? Do you want to do camera off? Do you want to pick up the phone? There's many ways to, you know, communicate in this world, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 40:47 and it, and it makes perfect sense. We all, we all need to recognize that change is always going to be around us. And the reality is, normal is never going to go back to the way it was after September 11 and and of course, I got out of the towers and so on, and I heard so many people say we got to get back to normal. And it took me a little while to realize what a horrible thing to say, because normal will never be the same again. And as you pointed out, who sets the standard of normal? It's it is going to be a constant change, and that's maybe the only normal there really is.   Lindsey Brown ** 41:25 I think that's the beautiful part about life, that things will necessarily change. Because where there could be a group of people saying, well, this normal works for me and it benefits me, right? But there could be another group of people who said, your standard of normal isn't helpful for for me. So it doesn't mean then we say, well, we've been doing that for 50 years. We're going to continue doing it because I don't want to make a change. No, it's then you can come to the table and work out, necessarily, what is working for people right now, and how do we uplift everyone around us?   Michael Hingson ** 41:56 I think most people who have that mindset will ultimately accept maybe there is merit for change if you can demonstrate the value of it. So we've always had our meetings in person. We do only work in the office, and so we don't ever do anything remote. And I don't want to change that, but when you really start to talk about things like we've been dealing with here today, mental health and anxiety and so on. And a number of people start to talk about how they feel when they're able to spend part of their time working at home, and what that offers. And if you can show things like it actually makes us more productive. Most people, I think, ultimately, can be convinced to try something different.   Lindsey Brown ** 42:50 If you space to be open minded, if you look at it sometimes in, I would say, in the corporate world, right before it was you have to be in the office. And a lot of times you were in the office and you were taking maybe, let's say, five meetings a day. Well, you're not really talking to anybody, communicating only the people you were talking to on the phone. Well, what's the difference if I was in the office with my door closed, or if I was at home on my couch talk, having those same meetings? If, yeah, if you can do the job that you were hired for then everybody should be allowed to have accommodation.   Michael Hingson ** 43:25 Well, the other part about being at home and having your meeting on your couch is, what other opportunities does it open for you and again, how does that make you feel when you don't have to drive that hour to work every day, or whatever. One of the things I've read in I think the New York Times a couple of months ago was about how, in reality, while we're moving things faster than we ever did, the fact is, it takes us longer to get things done, like it takes us longer to get to work because the roads are so crowded, or if I'm going to travel somewhere, it takes longer to get to the airport, and all of the efforts of getting through security and so on, all take so much longer that you really have to be at the airport earlier in order just to get Your flight, because everything takes so much longer, and that introduces anxiety and stress.   Lindsey Brown ** 44:25 Mm, hmm, for sure, I know a ton of people who are so happy they can work from home just for the fact that they don't have to commute. For me, my commute in the morning to the NAMI headquarter office is it probably about 20 minutes, but coming back into DC, it takes me at least an hour, and that which you know that I we have that option to go into office, we can work from home. And I like having that flexibility, because doing that drive every day would feel overwhelming,   Michael Hingson ** 44:57 yeah, if you had to do. That now I remember my father worked at Edwards Air Force Base, which was about 40 miles from where we lived in Palmdale, California, and he drove there every day. But one of the things that he talked about more than once was how he could go out of our driveway, go down to the end of the street, make a left turn and travel 40 miles and never stop once, because it was at the time of the day, there wasn't a lot of traffic, and he would go all the way to the gate at Edwards and never have to stop. And he was comfortable with that. We also both became ham radio operators, and so he had a lot of fun while he was driving, talking to me on the radio and to other people, which is another thing that he enjoyed doing, but he found that it was not overly stressful, or he didn't allow himself to become stressed over it because he could travel and keep moving, and felt good about that.   Lindsey Brown ** 46:05 Mm hmm. Not having the traffic is definitely a game changer. I've tried to when I I know that if I'm, let's say, commuting, or I'm driving a long distance, I usually call, you know, either my mom or my dad. I call it my check in hour, or listening to a good podcast. So you're not focusing on the negative of I'm in the car. It's, you know, it's an hour, it's, there's traffic, there's so much going on. But having something that either brings you joy or listening to and talking to somebody or listening to good music, it puts you in a good headspace,   Michael Hingson ** 46:43 or also, just plain taking your mind off of things and giving you the opportunity to to rest your brain. It is something that I hear so many people say I don't have time to spend every day thinking about what happened today. I'm I've got to go until I go to sleep, and then just go to sleep. And we don't do a lot, or a lot of people don't do a lot to rest their brain or allow their brain to suggest to them how they might be better or do better or accomplish things because they're too busy trying to control their brain, which has a different thought and a different direction it wants to go.   Lindsey Brown ** 47:30 Yeah, I become an advocate of mental health days. You don't need to be sick or too extreme burnout to then take a break. It is fine to schedule a mental health day and not do anything. And like I said before, before, pre pandemic, I didn't believe in that. I had too much going on and I didn't think I could take the time. Now, I can easily say to somebody, you know, oh, I have something going on that day. What are you doing? Nothing. Yeah, and I feel great about doing nothing, nothing.   Michael Hingson ** 48:04 I have generally been keeping busy during the week. My wife passed away in November of 2022, so now it's just me, but I've become more of an advocate of for me, and I realize that it is me not doing anything on the weekends, reading books and other things like that, and I get so charged for the for the week ahead, and I also get many ideas and thoughts that I might never have gotten simply because I give me and My brain the chance to recharge and to rest and to work together, to think about what's going to happen next.   Lindsey Brown ** 48:46 Yeah, there's part of culture. Remember hustle culture, I'm going to work until I die. That is, I thought about it before, and I said that is a horrible way to live your life. That means you have lived in a state of burnout, and you never got to enjoy anything.   Michael Hingson ** 49:04 And you will die,   Lindsey Brown ** 49:06 and then, and then you will, you know, take that other section of, you know, the afterlife, but we don't know what that is. So I mean, you have one life, enjoy it, have make time for, you know, your friends and your family. And that's where you asked me about being a multi hyphenate of well, how do you do that? That saying no, not overwhelming yourself. Every opportunity can be a great opportunity, but it's okay to say no to them.   Michael Hingson ** 49:33 How do you help teach people, or does Nami help teach people to say no and get out of that old mindset. Yes,   Lindsey Brown ** 49:42 the support groups they have are a great place where people who maybe have gone through the same experiences, and that's necessarily, maybe mental health, mental illness, but also, I always say, there's life lessons with with everything. So I mean, I've learned from working at Nami, but then also listening. Your friends and everything. So no, is a full sentence. You don't have to give a person a reason why. You don't have to tell your maybe your employer, hey, I'm taking the day off because I feel overwhelmed and I haven't I'm taking the day. You earn the time off. Take the day, right? Telling your friends and family, no, I can't do that necessarily. Or there are times in you know, I'll have a super long day, and maybe, you know, my dad might call me and I'll text him back to say, Hey, is everything okay? And if he says, Hey, I gotta talk to them, you know, I definitely call him back. But there are times when he says, Hey, I was just checking in, and I can easily say, Hey, I'm just tired from the day. Can I call you tomorrow? Everything's fine on my end, but I'm I'm just mentally done today, and that's okay. We we're all allowed to set boundaries to AKA, protect our peace and our mental health.   Michael Hingson ** 50:57 You know, it's not to well, it is sort of related to mental health and so on, but we seem to, in general, have lost a lot of the art of conversation, and so many people won't talk about one thing or another the way, maybe even we used to. How do we get back to being more willing and open just to talk   Lindsey Brown ** 51:19 time, taking the time, right? It's the and it's funny, because I work in social media, so everything's really quick, but even then, taking the time, making time to have conversations. If you ask somebody how they're doing, actually stop and listen, right? Because a lot of times you Hey, how you doing, and you really didn't want to hear how they were doing. You just said it, because that's a nice thing to do. Take a moment, right? Because you would want someone to take a moment for you.   Michael Hingson ** 51:48 Yeah. Then the fact of the matter is that having lost the art of conversation, and I think there's so many articles and things I've read that say that, I think even more than losing the art of conversation is we've lost the art and the skill of listening. We don't want we don't want to hear. Our boundary is we don't want to hear, well, that's not productive either.   Lindsey Brown ** 52:14 Yes. And there is I joke with my parents now, and I tell them, You know what, you were, right? And they and they'll laugh, but those moments where I didn't want to listen, and I know exactly what I'm talking about, because you're from a different generation, and I know better now, I didn't say all that to them, but I thought it, yeah, and then I turn around, Oh, you were right. Hello. And they're like, Yeah, we, we've lived a little longer than you. You should listen, and it's that place where you learn a lot more if you listen.   Michael Hingson ** 52:51 Yeah, we, we don't do it nearly enough. Um, I know I've learned from working with eight guide dogs. And when you work with a guide dog, the dog's job is to make sure that I walk safely. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there. But it's fascinating working with a dog and developing a true, real teaming relationship, because we each have a job to do in the relationship, and the jobs go better when we respect each other's jobs, and especially from my perspective as the team leader, when I listen to my colleague on the team and dogs do communicate. They may not communicate the same way we do, but my job is to learn how they communicate and learn to understand what they want and what they're saying, and recognize that they've not only got feelings too, but it's amazing the information that they can and do in part. And so for me, having that kind of a relationship has become extremely important, and I wouldn't have it any other way.   Lindsey Brown ** 54:04 You know, it's funny, I have a fiance, and ever since we met, I said, I want to get a dog, and I'm still waiting on that note where you can get a dog.   Michael Hingson ** 54:15 Is your fiance sort of not as prone to want to do that or what   Lindsey Brown ** 54:19 he is team. We can get a dog when we have a child that can walk, the dog's going to be a while.   Michael Hingson ** 54:30 Well, the issue, again, is having a dog is is all about really building a relationship. And again, it's a team relationship. And I don't know that I would suggest waiting until you have a child who can walk the dog, because it isn't going to work as well if you haven't really learned to communicate with the dog first, because you have to learn that whoever you are before you can teach a child how to do it, then that's the point. Is. It's. If you're just talking about walking the dog, if you're going to truly have a relationship with a dog, it's a whole lot different than that, because it is every bit as much a teaming relationship, every bit as much a mutually rewarding relationship, to have a dog if you do it right as it is to have a fiance or a child or both, and most people don't really recognize that, oh, the dog will love the dog, and the dog loves us, and we'll walk the dog. There's a whole lot more to it, if you want to really do it, right?   Lindsey Brown ** 55:36 Yeah, and it's all about relationships, right? So kind of how you were talking about earlier, how do we stop and communicate? How do we stop and listen? It's a place that I've gotten to where maybe it was a light bulb, right, where I was like, Oh, this is all about relationship and how people feel and how they feel when they're actually talking to me and communicating. And that's at, you know, extra work in your home life, necessarily, and to be open to having those conversations and not just trying to have everything go your way. But listen to the why behind, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:13 yeah. And the why behind is like with a dog, just as much. Why? What is the dog saying and why? Because they're they're talking all the time, and it doesn't necessarily mean with a bark, right? But, but they're talking, so we need to have a conversation with your fiance. That's all.   Lindsey Brown ** 56:34 We'll set up another meeting. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:36 well, we should do that. So do you think that in the world, we're getting better, really, at talking about mental health. Or have we, have we made significant progress, or a little bit of progress? I think we have,   Lindsey Brown ** 56:52 um, even in my friend group, necessarily, or even with my dad, necessarily, he said to me before, and my dad is culturally Costa Ricans, you know, aren't going to talk about their feelings and necessarily, you know what traumas maybe they had. And he said to me for he said, Well, maybe I experienced a little bit of anxiety, and in my mind, I said, Well, you think, but it's that place when you hear somebody else talking about it, it opens you up to think about, huh? Not a me too situation, right? But it's maybe I, maybe I am experiencing that, or because one in five people experiencing mental health condition, right? So if it's not you, it's somebody that you know, and it's not saying, then you have to raise your hand and say, Well, I I experienced depression, or I have anxiety, me too. No, but it's a place that you know how to support that person. You know how to listen to maybe what their plight is, and your friend who may experience depression, and you're like, I don't know how to help them. I just see them in bed being sick, right? But no, actually, hey, well, how can I actually be a support system to you? Obviously, I may not understand, but I can give you empathy. I can be here for you. I think the pandemic definitely changed that conversation, and more people are open to it. And   Michael Hingson ** 58:10 you think that's going to continue? I   Lindsey Brown ** 58:14 do think it's going to continue. It's something that you can't turn off, necessarily. It's the same place where you talk about the intersection of culture and identity in America, necessarily, the conversation is there. It's not going to be turned off. We're going to continue to have the conversation, and we're going to change people's lives that way by having these conversations. Got it.   Michael Hingson ** 58:36 How do you protect or how does one protect their mental health?   Lindsey Brown ** 58:42 I mean, I go back to having your mental health toolkit, your self care toolkit, of what makes you feel good inside, what brings you back to peace, what makes you feel good, and you know in yourself when you're like, uh, if I do my five minute meditation in the morning, or I have my cup of coffee in the morning or at night I do my skincare routine. What brings you back to peace is a big thing. Saying no, no, respectfully, like I wouldn't necessarily send an email to your boss and no, but necessarily having those conversations and maybe explaining your boundaries and maybe, you know, creating a better work life balance is definitely a place where people can start. It is knowing when you are feeling off, being in tune with your body and making the changes that can actually help you overall.   Michael Hingson ** 59:35 Well, here's the question for Miss social media model. How's that for a start, huh? How do you protect your mental health online? That's getting to, of course, to be a really big thing. I mean, I've, I've, we've, we've seen Congressional investigations where they bring this, the big tech people in, or the social media people in, and. And all that. But ultimately, what can we do to protect our own mental health and the mental health of those around us online? Because we're relying so much online nowadays, which I'm not sure is always as wise as it ought to be, but that's okay.   Lindsey Brown ** 1:00:18 Definitely, for me, it was learning that social media is a tool, right? So a lot of times, you feel that you're connected to social media, and it is something that you just have to be a part of. It's a tool. So necessarily following accounts that you like, what makes you feel good? You don't have to follow anyone on social media that you don't want to follow. Taking time away from social media. I know that's, you know, different for someone who's a social media manager, but if I'm spending all day on social media and I I'm overwhelmed, well, the last thing I need to do when I get off work is then to open up social media and, as I call it, Doom, scrolling or inactively participating, right? Because then I'm not even paying attention to maybe the curated post or the things that my friends are sharing. I'm just scrolling because I wanted something to do. Well, how about then putting the phone down, either finding a book, doing something that is off the phone. So when you are on social media, actively engaging, finding things that necessarily, for me, I really like to go experience things in DC, so like, find the things that I want to do in the city that I'm in, to go do things outside of my phone. Yeah, use the phone to find things to do and then go do those things. Look at how long you're online, right? Because that's a tool on most platforms. And you'd be shocked how long you spend time online, like on social media, and you're like, there's been a way I was on here for, you know, five hours. Yeah you were, yeah you were, yeah you were, and you don't realize it, because sometimes I realize with myself, you know, when you're watching, like maybe a show, or you're listening to a podcast or something, and there's that, that ad break, and then you pick for me, I would pick up my phone and I would be scrolling the ad is a minute long. Why can't I just sit there for a minute with my own thoughts? Yeah, why do I have to pick up my phone? And I realized I was doing that. So sometimes I will put my phone out of reach because I don't need my phone right then, I'm not even really looking at anything. I'm just doing it because it's a habit. Or stand up and go get a cookie. Yeah? Like, go, go do something. Like my mommy, she's they're like, Well, you can go do a jumping jack. And I'm like, Mom, I'm not going to get up and do a jumping jack now, but I guess you could, I could, and I got, she's right. I don't need to just be scrolling on my phone. Still right, definitely being noticeable of like our habits, and noticing how you feel when you are on social media. It's totally fine to take a break delete your accounts. It is fine to then unfollow people. And there's also, the cool thing is that on a lot of the platforms, either you can either hide people. So let's say you have a friend, right? And your friend is, I don't know, experiencing something that doesn't make you feel great, even though it's great in their life, you don't really want to unfollow them, because then they're like, no, what are you doing? But you can hide their stuff and they have no idea, but it makes you feel better. And then you can actually talk with them about anything else but that one thing they're going through, right? Yeah. You can actually hide keywords. So if you are triggered by certain things, you can go in your settings and turn that off so you're not seeing those things. T

Chris Blum is the executive director of the Heartland Cancer Foundation in Lincoln Nebraska. Chris joined the foundation after a 25-year career as a professional in the Boy Scouts organization and then working three years for the Nebraska Safety Council. Chris tells us that he is strictly Nebraska born and bred.   During his time as a Boy Scout professional, he did work elsewhere, but all roads eventually brought him back to Lincoln. He left scouting when the organization wanted him to move elsewhere to assume another position.   It was fun speaking with a nonprofit expert and professional. We talked about a number of issues faced by the not-for-profit world, and we even talked about the differences between for profit sales and not for profit fundraising.   Chris brings lots of insights to our conversation. For this being his first podcast appearance, he did quite well, and I think you will like what he had to say. At the end, of course, he gave information about how people can support the Heartland Cancer Foundation.   About the Guest:   Chris Blum joined the Heartland Cancer Foundation in August of 2022.  Chris has 30 years of non-profit leadership experience.  He has spent his career making every team better and every company or organization more efficient and more profitable.  Chris is skilled at recruiting people with talents and skills which compliment his to make the organization stronger.  Here in Nebraska, he has served as the Business Development Manager for the Nebraska Safety Council, the Chief Philanthropy Officer for the Nebraska Children's Home Society, and the Scout Executive/CEO for the Cornhusker Council, Boy Scouts of America.  He served in a variety of positions during a 25-year Boy Scout career with assignments in South Dakota, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, and Texas.  Chris has a bachelor's degree in public relations from Northwest Missouri State University.   Chris provides strategic and professional leadership for all development and operational efforts of the HCF. He works with volunteers and other stakeholders to prospect, cultivate, and solicit support for growing HCF programs by leveraging all available resources.  Chris' professional goals are to develop long-term relationships with donors, friends, and community partners by deeply engaging them to realize their charitable goals and maximize their gifts of time, talent, and treasure to HCF.  Chris and his wife Lori are Nebraska natives (Omaha and Wahoo), they have a son, CJ, who attends Mickle Middle School.  Chris have been active in Rotary, and as a Cub Scout Den Leader, and currently coaches Junior High Cross Country and Track for St. John's Catholic School.     Ways to connect with Chris:   https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=d94fe9ca05&e=9ea37134d3   https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=01db9189e7&e=9ea37134d3   https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=c4ffa1a2af&e=9ea37134d3   https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=1a81f3f0cb&e=9ea37134d3   https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=0112187c95&e=9ea37134d3   https://heartlandcancerfoundation.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=cfbc6e1709361a145ed40d367&id=60e930e34a&e=9ea37134d3   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi and welcome wherever you happen to be to unstoppable mindset, where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Unexpected is always fun, and it's what we mostly do on unstoppable mindset. But I'm really glad you're here, and I want to welcome our guest today, Chris Blum, who is the Executive Director of the heartland Cancer Foundation. He's going to tell us about that and a lot of other stuff. And I know, Chris, you had a long stint in doing things in the boy scouts, and having been in scouting and and risen to the rank of Eagle with vigil in the Order of the Arrow, I'm very familiar with scouting as well, so we've got lots to talk about, and I want to welcome you and to unstoppable mindset and again, thank you for being   Chris Blum ** 02:02 here. Yeah, Michael, thanks for having me. So it's pleasure.   Michael Hingson ** 02:07 This is Chris's first podcast, so we'll try to be nice, but thanks for doing this. Why don't we start by maybe talking about the early Chris, growing up and all that, and kind of what, what, what drove you, what you learned, and anything else that you want to tell us about the earlier Chris   Chris Blum ** 02:28 Sure. Well, hey, I'm Midwest boy. I grew up in Omaha Nebraska. Council Bluffs, Iowa. If you know anything about Omaha Nebraska, you're familiar with the College World Series, so yeah, I was Yeah. Grew up average milk. Middle class family. Have two parents, one sister, two dogs. You know, lived in Omaha for seven years, and then both my parents were working in Council Bluffs Iowa, so we moved across the river and actually moved to the country because living on a gravel road went from city streets with sidewalks and a park right across the street to to a gravel road with eight houses on it and ended up going to high school at Council Bluffs Lewis Central. Played golf and ran cross country. Was very active in our East Side Christian Church and and I went to Northwest Missouri State University in Maryville, Missouri, thought I thought I wanted a career in broadcasting, so I did some work on the radio station and the TV station there in at school. Thought maybe I wanted to go into sports management. So my first job out of college was with a summer collegiate baseball team in St Joseph Missouri, the St Joseph Cardinals had a lot of fun working in a minor league baseball setting, but couldn't make any money, and didn't like spending my whole summer at the ballpark because I didn't get a chance to play Golf or do a lot of other things, and then an opportunity presented itself to go to work for the Boy Scouts of America in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. And having grown up in scouting, I thought, hey, this might be something that I'd be good at, and that that career lasted 25 years, took me to from South Dakota to Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Texas, and then back here to Lincoln, Nebraska, my wife's Nebraska native from Wahoo, and I'm from, as I mentioned earlier, Omaha, so we're. Like, hey, this is a great opportunity to come back home. All of our family is between Council, bluffs, wahoo and Lincoln. So we had, we've got 15 nieces and nephews. I think we got 15. I might be off on the count, but thought it'd be a good opportunity to put down some roots and stop moving all over the country and and then that has led me to to the heartland Cancer Foundation.   Michael Hingson ** 05:32 So when did you leave the scouts? From a professional standpoint,   Chris Blum ** 05:38 left the scouts in 2019 February, 2019 and then had a spent a couple years at The Nebraska Safety Council here in Lincoln, doing some business development and some marketing, helping them as a nonprofit work to keep keep the workers safe through OSHA trainings, we also had some driver ed programs for teaching teenagers how to drive safely and effectively. And then we also had a wellness component to make sure that the the employees of of our companies, you know whether they be manufacturing or in the desk, the office employees making sure that they're taking care of themselves, physically and mentally. You know little things like drinking enough water, getting up and stretching every few hours, having a stand up desk so that you, you don't spend eight hours a day sitting you and yeah. And had two years there, and then an opportunity to present itself, to come, come work for the Heartland Cancer Foundation. And so in in August of 2022, I came on board with the with the heartland Cancer Foundation. So   Michael Hingson ** 07:04 being with the scouts for 25 years, what prompted you to leave and go elsewhere?   Chris Blum ** 07:12 The biggest, the biggest thing was that they were asking me to move again. Oh, I, I had. They're no fun. Yes, set up roots here in Lincoln early on in my career. When you're single, it's easy to move every three or four years, even when you're newly married and you and your spouse don't have kids, it's Hey, it's kind of fun, a new adventure. But then when you realize your spouse has to give up her career and start all over and and you realize that the the raise that you got gets wiped out because your household income gets cut in half, and then you got to start all over with, you know, finding finding a gym to go to, Finding the grocery store, you know, meeting the neighbors finding, you know, the new house that you just moved into. Where's, where's the water shut off, where's the, you know, where's all the stuff I was used to, yeah. And so we had made the decision when we had moved to Lincoln, was that if, if we decided that the Boy Scouts wasn't going to work out for us. Could we stay in Lincoln? And again, we were around family. We had started to put down roots. My son had just started, you know, was into school and like, Look, I'm not uprooting all of this. And decided, you know, there's, there's an opportunity to do, do other things that I can do, and be very successful professionally and personally. And chose to, chose to leave the Boy Scouts.   Michael Hingson ** 08:58 Do you still have family in Omaha, Yes, yep, and that's not very far away.   Chris Blum ** 09:04 Nope. My mom and sister live actually in Council Bluffs. I've got an aunt that lives in Bellevue, which is a suburb of Omaha. And then my wife's got brothers and sisters, and I'll miss that. Count up, she's got seven brothers and sisters in Wahoo and and Lincoln. So we're all we're all right here. So, yeah, it's,   Michael Hingson ** 09:33 it is it is tough to move. And I know my wife passed away in November of 2022, and people started asking me after she passed, well, are you going to move because you've got that big house? And as as I love to say to people, first of all, moving is incredibly stressful, especially when you've been somewhere for a while. But. For me, I pay under 200 I pay under $2,000 a month for principal, interest, tax and insurance. Why would I move? It'd be costing me any a bunch more money to move anywhere. So sure. And the house is seven years old, so it's built to all the codes and solar and all that. So there's a lot to be said for being content with where you are. So I'm with you. I know that I've spent time in Lincoln and worked with the Department of Rehabilitation back there and then across the state somewhat. I have a former geometry teacher, Dick herbalsheimer, who was my sophomore geometry teacher. He now lives in Sydney, Nebraska. He kind of always wanted to move back there, even though he was teaching out in Palmdale, but we visited him. He is, what, 87 this year, and we always discuss the fact that he's older than I am, and he keeps telling me, I'm catching up. And I said, Nope, you're always going to be seven years ahead of me. I'm not going to worry about it, or not seven years you're going to be 14 years ahead of me, and I'm not catching up. Sure, that's kind of fun. But I like, I like Nebraska. It's a lot of fun to be there and so on. Well, you and it's interesting to hear what you say about the Safety Council. I haven't spoken at any State Safety Council meetings, but I've spoken at safety and emergency preparedness organization conventions, and had a lot of fun doing it, and really appreciate some of the kinds of things that you're talking about and what you're trying to teach people to do. Because, yeah, if you just sit all day, every day, and in an office at a desk, that's not good for anybody,   11:46 correct? Well, so   Michael Hingson ** 11:49 you, you, you went to the Nebraska well, to the heartland Cancer Foundation. Tell me about the foundation, if you would   Chris Blum ** 11:58 sure. So the the heartland Cancer Foundation was founded in 2008 by a local group of cancer doctors who, as they were helping their patients and treating their patients, they they saw a need to help them with their their basic expenses, their their car payments, their mortgage, their utilities, and then the the travel expenses to and from treatment. You know, those are, those are expenses that when you get a cancer diagnosis, they don't, they don't stop. You know, they wanted to do something locally for the local patients. You know, raising money for the national organizations for research is is important, but when you're going through treatment and struggling to figure out how to pay your bills, you don't really care about cancer research and funding that leaves the state. So these doctors put together this foundation, and over the past few years, they've just steadily grown it through some special events. We currently provide grants of $750 to cancer patients in Nebraska. You've got to be a resident of Nebraska, you have to be in active treatment, and you have to qualify financially. What we our requirements are, we take the federal poverty guidelines, and we times that by four, and the application process is pretty easy. It's online, or we can actually, we can actually mail a paper copy to a person working with their nurse practitioner or their social worker, the medical staff that they work with they get it filled out. Our turnaround time is about a about a day or two, depending on how, how quick our program director reads it and then, and then we we approve the grant. The The nice thing that I think we offer is we actually pay the bills directly to the mortgage company or the car company or the utility company for the for the patient, so that takes that burden off of them, or their family who's ever might be helping them out throughout the the whole process, if they, if the patient says, Hey, I my biggest need of those four categories is travel expenses to and from treatment, then we will, we'll mail them gas cards to that they can use for their. For their trips. Nebraska, being mostly rural, you know, a lot of our folks are driving outside of Lincoln, you know, 45 minutes an hour into Lincoln for treatment, or if they're in one of our outstanding community towns that we serve, whether it be Beatrice or Grand Island or Hastings, you know, they're, they could be driving, you know, 1520 minutes, you know. And the gas prices the last few years have kind of skyrocketed. So that's been our, our biggest need in the past couple years, to ensure that folks have, have the, have the travel expenses. And again, we we pride ourselves on immediate and practical financial assistance for for local cancer patients. So like I said, as long as you live in in Nebraska and you're in active treatment, you you're eligible, and we've been blessed that we've never turned down a request. So we're, it's something we're we're planning on continuing to a streak with. We hope we'll. We plan on continuing.   Michael Hingson ** 16:16 Are the grants one time grants? Or can people receive more than one? Or how does that work?   Chris Blum ** 16:20 They can, they can receive one every 12 months. Ah, okay, so, yeah, unfortunately, cancer doesn't usually get fixed in a year, no. So we, we offer, you know, after that 12 month cycle, they can, they can reapply. We also collaborate with other other foundations here in Nebraska, the Hope Foundation, the Grace Foundation, and angels among us is another one where we our patients can help. You know, if they get grants from them, we actually encourage that. We don't, we don't disqualify them because they get grants from somebody else. So, you know, we and we share that. We share those resources with our on our website. Hey, here's some other other areas of needs. Because as as great as the needs are for for cancer patients, our mission that we've stuck to is these are our four categories that we fund, and we'll give you money for their for these four if you need help outside of those four categories, here's some here are some people that you you should reach out to.   Michael Hingson ** 17:37 Are there similar organizations in other states,   Chris Blum ** 17:42 that is a very good question. I want to say yes, but I I don't know that for sure. I would. I have to believe that there are. I That's probably a something I need to be more aware of. But like I said, most of the stuff we have done has been all in Nebraska, so we are very familiar with the foundations in Nebraska that help. Again, the great thing about Google is we could probably, I could probably Google it more talented to be able to do this while I'm while I'm talking to you, but I don't want to mess mess that up and hit the wrong button and get cut off from the podcast here.   Michael Hingson ** 18:29 I know, I know what you're saying. We   Chris Blum ** 18:31 can probably Google and like I said, I'm sure there are groups   Michael Hingson ** 18:38 in other states well, and there are a lot of different organizations in Nebraska, as you say, what sets the HCF apart? What makes you unique and what you do? What   Chris Blum ** 18:50 makes us unique is that we provide the immediate, practical assistance, and it's, it's a quick turnaround time, you know, you're not, you're not applying, and then waiting, you know, you you apply and say, Hey, I need my mortgage paid for. We agree. We start, we start covering that mortgage. You know, that mortgage payment, you know, and and most of our, most of our clients at mortgage payments somewhere between one and three months. And so if we can take that burden off of an individual for that that amount of time, and they can spend now that that one to three months just focusing on healing and not having to worry about, how am I going to pay pay the mortgage this month? You know, we're we have a local, a local board of 12 members. So all our decisions are are made here in Lincoln. We're not we're not having to call somebody in in Dallas. We're not having to call somebody in New York. You know, if, if we have a, if we have something we need to do, we we talk to the board and we. Make a decision. Most of our, majority of our funding, is all raised here in Nebraska. And we do get several, several 1000s of dollars of support from the pharmaceutical companies through some educational programs that we run and why those dollars aren't headquartered here in Nebraska. They all have local, local representatives that live and work here in in Omaha or Lincoln, and that, you know, we're, we're we're based local. We serve local, you know, and our staff all lives here. Fact, our one, our one staff member who works part time for us, she worked at the Beatrice hospital for a time in the intake office. So she she was involved with the patients on a daily basis before she came to workforce. So, yeah, that's, I think that's what makes us unique. And again, we were, we were started by local doctors helping helping local patients. Several of those doctors are still involved. Several other spouses are still involved in our our impact. Guild, um, so I think that's a long winded question. Answer to your to your short question. Michael, sorry about that.   Michael Hingson ** 21:27 That's fair. So I'm curious you, you said something that at least prompts a question. So you get funding from some outside sources like pharmaceutical companies and so on. Do they ever try to restrict their funds, or is that part of the message that you send is you can't do that? Yeah,   Chris Blum ** 21:46 that's, that's part of our message is that, you know, we, they can't really restrict the the funds. And if they ask to to restrict the funds, we we just say that we're we can't accept them. So again, the four things that we support are mortgage payment, car payment, utilities and then travel expenses. So that's what we ask them to to support. And it's great that you the most of the companies again, because I'm dealing with local reps, they understand what we're doing. And then we can, we can just work, work through there. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 22:35 you've spent most, well, pretty much all, of your professional life in the nonprofit world, which, generally speaking, certainly from a financial standpoint, doesn't pay as much as working a lot of times in the corporate world, but you've been very successful at being a leader and building teams and so on. What? What makes you stay in the the nonprofit sector as opposed to going elsewhere.   Chris Blum ** 23:01 Oh, good question. I think part of it is in my Gallup strengths. You know, realized I'm a very mission driven individual, a lot of times working in the boy scouts. It, it gave me the the ability to act and operate like an entrepreneur, without the risk I didn't have. You know, there was, there was always a there was always an umbrella there. And so I like the flexibility. I like being able to to help folks. I've never really been a nine to five or so. There's a lot of times meetings, meetings and activities outside of the workday. It's a, it's more of a, it's more of a calling and being able to being able to help folks, is and give back. I think that's why I spent a lot of time with the Boy Scouts, is I knew what it did for me as a kid, and I thought, if I could this, this is my way to help, help give back. Was it the best camper, the best knot tire? I like camping, but I prefer a Marriott, yeah. And so I figured if I could help, you know, raise the money and handle stuff on the back end of things, that that would be something that would be my way of paying it, paying it back or paying it forward.   Michael Hingson ** 24:43 I hear you, I, I, I didn't mind going camping. I enjoyed it, but at the same time, it was always a whole lot more fun to stay indoors, as I learned a whole lot later in life. So there's, there's a lot to be said for hotels, but at the. Same time, I never regret the knowledge and all the information that I learned in my years as a scout, including camping and learning how to function in those kinds of environments, whether I choose to do it or not, having the knowledge is also a very helpful thing to to be able to tie yourself to Yes, and so I don't mind it a bit. How what? What caused you to start being a professional Scouter? What was it just a job that came up? Or how did that work out?   Chris Blum ** 25:38 Oh, so, yeah, that's an interesting story.   Michael Hingson ** 25:43 Love stories.   Chris Blum ** 25:45 When I left the so I was working in minor league baseball, as I mentioned earlier, and the season was over. September. I was actually working with the Wichita wranglers double a team in Wichita, Kansas. Season was over early September, and they said, Hey, we love you. We want you to work for us, the internship to be a full time job, but it's not going to start till January. Well, it's September. I, I got a car payment. I, you know, I got, you know, rent. I need to eat. I can't not work for four months. So I moved back to Council Bluffs, Iowa, and I answered an ad in the Omaha World Herald marketing and fundraising professional. Or maybe it was a, I think it was a marketing, public relations and fundraising professional position. Okay, so I go to the address on the paper back in those days, you didn't Google it. You Oh, the address. Okay, get out the road,   Michael Hingson ** 26:53 get the Thomas brothers map out. Yeah, and   Chris Blum ** 26:57 I showed up at the Boy Scout office. I'm like, Okay, this, this is odd. I didn't know that there was a professional side of scouting, and so I sat down, I interviewed and and they were telling me, you know, here's what you do. You you talk to people, you get a you recruit kids. You gotta raise money. I'm like, oh, that's kind of like sales, sales in minor league baseball, working in the stadium operations department, on putting on camperies, and they're like, Yeah, and you, you're not going to deal too much with kids, you know, you're not, you're not a scout master or a cub, cub scout master or a den leader. You're handling the business side of scouting. Okay, that makes sense. And so I I interviewed in Omaha. And boy scouts have a National Personnel System, so So I was in their system. Omaha didn't have a job. They didn't, they didn't select me for a job. But I got a call from the scout executive in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. The Scout executive is, would be the CEO of the local council or the local franchise. And I talked to him, he's like, Well, I've got a job for you. I need you to come up here and interview and say, Okay, I really, really don't want to drive three hours for an interview unless you're going to give me the job. And he said, Well, I can't enter. I can't give you the job without interviewing. Yeah. I said, Well, we've got a phone. Let's just interview here. And, and we bantered back and forth, and he's finally just said, Well, you just drive up here and take the interview so I can give you the job. Oh, there you go. So drove up and we talked and and he was telling me, he's like, now you're going to, you're, you're going to work 50 to 60 hours a week. Okay, well, that's a lot less than I worked in baseball. So alright. He's like, you're not going to make, make very much money. I I can only pay you $23,000 I'm like, well, that's, that's, you know, 1012, grand more than I made with the baseball team. So where do I sign? And he's like, Well, you're, you're going to cover 11 counties in South Dakota, so there's a lot of driving time. Okay, well, I've driven all over Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa,   Michael Hingson ** 29:18 and I came here, didn't I? Yeah, I'm like,   Chris Blum ** 29:23 Okay, where do, where do I sign? And so I actually had relatives in my I had a aunt and uncle, great aunt and uncle that lived in winter South Dakota, which was going to be one of my, one of my communities that I would be in charge of. So, you know, I'm like, this is like, a no brainer. I think, you know, the good Lord's looking out for me. You know, go going from not having any job to getting a new job with a car and and a raise and benefits and and so, and I ended up working out of my house. So I had a I had an old desk that I, you know, fact, it wasn't even a desk before I got a desk. I had a two saw saw horses and and an old piece of plywood that I used as my desk because I I remembered reading something that Sam Walton, that's how his desk started. Well, if it's good enough for Sam Walton that it worked for me, and the price was right. I, you know, everything was free. So, so I started working for the Boy Scouts, and really, really enjoyed it. My first summer, I was in in charge of a traveling Cub Scout day camp. So we traveled and put on, kind of like a carnival event in all the communities in South Dakota and Minnesota, and I got paid to run around and shoot BB guns and bows and arrows, run around in shorts and a T shirt and, you know? And I'm like, wow, this is pretty fun. And so it never really felt like a job. I found my two, two good things I was really strong at in in scouting, was I was running good at running camps, making sure kids got signed up. Camps were full, they had a good time, and that we turned a profit. And I was really good at raising money. And realized, if you run camps for the Boy Scouts, it's kind of like being in minor league baseball. Your summers, you don't get a lot of time to do anything but, but work and be at   Michael Hingson ** 31:28 camp. How tough?   Chris Blum ** 31:29 If you raise money, you're always going to have a job. And a lot of times your summers are off, so or you're, you're spending your summers with donors, playing golf, or, you know, going to a ball game or, you know, and so my my skill set translated, you know, Boy Scout councils needed somebody that could relate to donors, raise money, work with marketing and project management. And so my career track with the Boy Scouts, took the the fundraising track and and the development track and and continued to sharpen that skill set, and ended up working for the Boy Scout foundation in Dallas, traveling around the country, working With Boy Scout councils and their and their donors to help figure out how to how to secure gifts of $100,000 to 5 million, and really understanding how to match the donors. Donors passion with the local council's vision, you know, to make sure that you know the donor wanted to give a give money to build a swimming pool, but the council needed a new dining hall, so let's not put a new swimming pool in. Let's figure out how to, how to make a new dining hall work, or find out, you know, does the does the donor really want to do a swimming pool? Or they just thought it was a neat idea, yeah. And so that was, that was kind of how it worked. And I, again, they, they needed local council leadership here in Lincoln as a CEO, and the powers to be at the Boy Scouts thought I'd be a good candidate. So I came here to to Lincoln to interview and and was selected to serve as the scout executive. And, like I said, did that for four years and and enjoyed it, but it when it got to the time that, hey, it's time for you to look at a new job somewhere else, and we want you to start over somewhere else. I think the options they gave me were Pennsylvania and Montana, and they said, why those sound great? Could have come 10 years ago. It would have been a lot easier for me to say, yeah, yeah. So yeah. That's how the kind of the Boy Scout, Boy Scout story started and   Michael Hingson ** 33:55 you you equated or mentioned early on about the fact that what they were asking you to do with the Boy Scouts was really like sales and so on. Tell me what, what do you think the differences are? Or really, are there differences between sales and what, what people do in traditional kinds of selling of things and fundraising? And I'll and I'll tell you why I asked the question, because my belief is that they're really the same thing. Obviously, there's a little bit more of a mission component to fundraising than sales, but really are they all that different?   Chris Blum ** 34:36 Oh, that's a that's a good question. In fact, one of my, one of my really good friends from my time living in Michigan. Matt Stevens is a professional sales coach with Jerry Weinberg and Associates. He's a Sandler assistant guy and and disciple and very talented and very good. There are a lot of a lot of similarities. I. Um, I, my, my viewpoint is that sales is more of a science fundraising, fundraising is more of an art, but they do intertwine. Yeah, the thing about really good sales people and the representative is both of them. It comes down to relationships, yeah, but with sales, the the best ones are the ones that are disciplined. They they know every day. I'm I'm going to make certain amount of calls, I'm going to talk to a certain amount of people, I'm going to meet with a certain amount of people, and then, and they've got that system in place where there's a follow up, okay, you need to, you need to follow back up this conversation. And so sales, in sales, it's about finding the pain point and getting at what the prospect really needs, and for them to tell you what they really need.   Michael Hingson ** 36:04 That's, of course, the real issue is that they need to tell you what they need. And, you know, I I really find that there is a science and an art to sales, because I think the best salespeople are really teachers, they're counselors, and most people don't get that. But I think that's as true for people in the fundraising world. Yeah, there are some differences, but, but I think there, there are, as you said, a lot of similarities, and I think that all too often we miss that and and the best fundraisers and the best salespeople are people who really can dig down and understand or or learn to understand what drives their customer or their donor?   Chris Blum ** 36:51 Yes, I agree. And in fundraising, a lot of times, in fundraising, I know early on, it was very transactional. Hey, I've got this golf tournament I'd like you to buy Forza or, you know, we're doing this fundraiser for this, this trinket or or recognition piece. You know, as I, as I grew up and went to work for the foundation, I really learned more about listening, you know, finding out what the donor, you know, asking them to tell their story. Why are, you know, tell me why you why you're involved in scouting. And once they start telling that story, then you start picking up, you know, bits and pieces. The other thing, I think, was fundraising, is if you can take two people and visit with the donor, you increase your odds of success, because you are going to hear something that the other person won't, and you can actually better strategize. And then a colleague of mine that I worked with at the foundation, he told me, he said, if, if you want somebody's opinion, you ask for their money. If you want somebody's money, you ask for their opinion. And it, it sunk in with me that. Well, yeah, if you, if you ask them what they think and how, you know how, how they think something should work. Or you show them the campaign brochure and, like, give me your thoughts on this, they'll lead you down the path. So similar to to salesman, and I know my friend Matt, he drives me crazy because he's always asking he, he always asks me questions. Or, you know, we go out to eat somewhere, we meet somebody, and, you know, 20 questions later, Matt's still having a conversation with a guy. And I'm like, dude, let's go. But he's, he's got that down. He, he asked, you know, fact Sandler, I've got it here on my desk that I think I got from him in one of his trainings. I I snuck was questions that you should, you know, and so, so, yeah, I think it's, they're very much related. And I think, you know, I've learned, you know, I'm, I've brought the sales discipline to the fundraising, and then I've and then some of the again, asking the questions and not not being, not being so much in a rush. I think that's part of the challenges with fundraisers and nonprofits as we are so into I got to get this money, I got to get this sponsorship for this, for this event, or our year end budget. We, you know, we got to get these year end gifts in. And we don't really, you know, we don't really stop and and and take a donor to coffee and just say, hey, thank you. Thanks for what you do for us. Yeah, why do you do what you do for us? And, once we start having those conversations, and we listen and we and we don't listen to and we're not sitting there thinking about what we're going to say next, that's where, you know, the magic happens. That's where the the sale, the. Or you know, you know. And sometimes I think, you know sales, you're selling a product, and we think that that customer needs that product. Well, do we know if we had asked the issue, right, if they need it? And sometimes they don't even know they need it. And and and I've, I sit on that end all the time, I get emails, hey, we can help you raise more money at this event. You know? We can help you with a bigger with a better CRM and, like, no, no, no, you know. And so, yeah, it I think again. Like I said, I've learned a lot from some of the my good friends that are salespeople and very successful. It's about the discipline. Put it in your calendar, you know. And I've actually been on, I was a sale Salesforce disciple for a few years at the foundation, and that was, to me, that was just too rigid, because, like, well, you met with, you met with Bill Smith three weeks ago. Proposal needs to be completed today, and sent like, Well, no, he's he's not ready. Yeah, you know. And so it felt like I was always managing, managing the tasks of the sales force, but, but understood why they were doing it, tickling it. Okay? It forced me to look okay, well, why isn't bill ready? Oh, because I haven't, I haven't found why. Or I haven't, you know, it's been three weeks since I've talked to him. So, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 41:30 there are, there are definite challenges. It's, it is true that that ultimately, you've got to really have the opportunity to step back and look at what the customer wants, or the donor wants, who is, in a sense, the customer. I know the Sandler system is often about pain. You know, well, what pain are you feeling as the person that we're trying to sell to? And can I figure out your pain? And that works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't, but it isn't any different in fundraiser fundraising, the The difference is that you probably don't call it pain. You call it more an issue of what drives me to want to give to this organization or that organization, or what what influenced me to even come there? And it amounts to the same thing, but we we tend to still put things in such rigid terms that we ultimately don't get back down to what is the what is the customer, the donor, or, in your case, the foundation, really need, and then you map a strategy accordingly.   Chris Blum ** 42:42 Yeah, and it's, it's really, again, goes back to, you know, I think sometimes in the fundraising world the nonprofit, we think we know why somebody, oh, they, they support us because they come to our golf term, okay, well, do you know why? You know. And a lot of times when you sit and ask, Why can't? Because, you know, definitely on the foundation, well, you know, Dr green asked me to to play in his Foursome, or Dr Nate Green was, was my wife's oncologist. Yeah, I was just gonna say, you know, Dr Dunder is my neighbor. You know, those are the, those are the type of things you know that you know, in my, my year and a half I've been here, I've been finding out, you know, you know, there's a ton of golf tournaments. Why do you, why do you come to our golf tournament? Well, my, my spouse, was a patient, or, you know, the foundation helped my, my uncle, or, you know, and so it's, it's finding that, and, and then the, you know, the question that I think we, we don't ask enough in the nonprofit, is, well, we, if we didn't do the golf tournament, would you still support the organization? You know, do you? Would you still support the mission? Because, from my standpoint, I would love to have somebody just write me the sponsor check, yeah, and not have to worry about, you know, paying for a golf course, and we're paying for, you know, if you put on a gala and you got to, you got to pay for the food, you got to pay for the venue. If we didn't have the gala, would you still write the check, you know? And a lot of times I get it the corporate money. It's easier to to be tied to, to an event because they they work at Mark, they look at it as a marketing or a public, public thing. But I think just again, having that conversation so that, you know, well, they're coming, this is why they're coming to the golf term. This is why they're coming to the Mardi Gras Gala, you know. And again, the challenge with with with nonprofits is that we, a lot of us, do a lot of non special events, and having having a lot of special events. But you know, you're not going to get the same sponsors back every year because the dates not going to align, or the person who wrote the check for that company got promoted or left the company and the new person isn't familiar with you. So I think again, that's a that's a question in the nonprofit world, we we need to ask, but a lot of times we're afraid of asking that, would you write us the check without coming to all the events, or if, if that's the why you're coming, or why you're writing the check is because the event that's that's also important to know, because then you know they're not coming if they're if we don't have this event. And I would guess that most, most supporters of your organization in the event, that's not why they're they're coming but,   Michael Hingson ** 45:49 but they do love the personal contact, yes,   Chris Blum ** 45:51 yes. And then they love to see the the stuff you know, the the program in action. And they, they like the personal contact and, but yeah, the the special events are very, very time, time intensive to to put on and, and so, yeah, it would be be much easier if we could just have somebody, you know, give the gift, because they support us and come back, you know, you know, come back next time. I can help so   Michael Hingson ** 46:28 and maybe if they start out coming because of the events and so on, as given the way you operate, as you gain more of a personal relationship with them, you may find that you can guide some of them away from just needing to come to the event to support the organization, and it may mean that you can get them to the point where they'll be a larger donor because you do the event, but also just because they they buy into what you're doing, And you're able to educate them about that? Yeah,   Chris Blum ** 47:02 absolutely. That's, that's where the magic happens is, is after the event, you know, how, how do you follow up? You know, is a thank you, a personal visit, you know, finding out, Hey, why? Why were you there? And, yeah, and we've, you know, we've, we've had some success here at the Foundation with that. We've got. We've got a couple donors. Yeah, they've, they've come to one or two of our events, but yet they, they call us towards the end of end of the year every year, like, hey, what else? What else can we help you with? And sometimes I don't even have to answer, like, we're sending you the check. Use it how you need it. So there you go. And I think a lot of the successful nonprofits around the around the country that they do the exact same thing. It's just with most nonprofits, you're always trying to put 10 pounds of potatoes in a five pound bag, and you literally could work 24/7, and and still be behind. And that's probably the same way in the corporate world. I'm fact, I'm sure it is, you know, and I had a, I had a friend a long time ago. He said, Yeah, faster planes and shorter runways, and that was back in 1993 so could almost say we've got supersonic planes and no runways now, so just how fast things move? The problem with   Michael Hingson ** 48:27 all that, though, is that it's not the planes and the runways, it's the roads getting to the airport that tend to slow you down a lot, right? I was reading an article a couple weeks ago all about how efficient, more efficiently. We have become an R with air travel and so on directly, but it's all the things leading up to it that take a lot longer than it used to, and it adds so much more stress in our lives, and that doesn't help either. But you know, with what you're doing, anyone who understands nonprofits and understands the mission of an organization, and buys into it, knows full well the value and the joy in a lot of ways that you get from doing what you do, and the joy of accomplishing a task, and that's probably a little bit different than what happens in a lot of sales environments, although, I would say for me, when I was selling computer products, and I would spend a lot of time talking with prospects about what they want, what they need, And and also making sure that my product was the one that would do what they need. And I had never had qualms about saying, you know, our product's not going to work for you, and here's why. And that always eventually was a very positive thing, because they would call me back at some point. Say, because of everything you taught us, we've got another project, and we know your product will do exactly what we want. So just tell us how much it is. We're not even going to put it out to bid. But that, again, is all in the relationship. And the joy of knowing that you helped someone really solve a problem is super so it is true that it translates into sales, but you got to look for that opportunity, and you got to look for that joy in your own life and what you do. And I think it is emphasized a lot less than looking at and understanding the mission of a nonprofit.   Chris Blum ** 50:34 Absolutely, good,   Michael Hingson ** 50:36 yeah, which, yeah, which is, was? It's part of the issue, part of the issue. So what does success look like for you? You, you clearly are, I would, I would say successful in what you do and so on. You enjoy what you do. So what is success to you?   Chris Blum ** 50:51 Oh, that's, that's an ever, yeah, ever moving. It is moving obstacle. I guess it just depends, I think, from a professional standpoint, at the foundation here, success is making sure we've got, we've got enough money to to never have to say no to a to an applicant, being able to to grow the foundation you know, you know, live, capitalizing on the success of of my predecessors. You know, the board, the previous director, Amy green, and the previous donors that have set us up for for success, continuing that and making sure that, you know, five or 10 years down the road, we've, we're given grants at, you know, $1,500 or 2000 or, you know, we're paying, we're paying everybody's mortgage for a year being able to, you know, and that, that's kind of pie in the sky. But the the success is that, you know, hey, we're able to fund everybody. You know, we are, we're in, we're we're covering every county in Nebraska, you know our when somebody says the heartland Cancer Foundation, they're like, yep, we know what they do. You need to, you need to support them. You need to get involved with them. I think, success wise, personally, you know, make sure that you know my my wife and son know that I don't spend more time at the office than I spend at home. But no, but their understanding is that when I'm in the office, they understand why I'm is because, you know, there's, there's a deadline for one of our special events, or that, you know, what I'm raising money for and engaging the community with is, is having an impact and changing the lives of cancer patients. But when I'm, you know, success looks like when I'm at home, that I'm, I'm present, you know, when I'm, when I'm at CJs baseball game or basketball game, I'm not on my phone, you know, checking emails or texts of people. I'm, if I'm on my phone, I'm taking a video or or a picture of him. You know, when, when we're at, when we travel to one of my wife, Lori's marathon trips, you know, I'm, I'm not working on the laptop. The laptop doesn't even come with me, you know. And you know, my, my role is the support. Okay, get out on the course. Cheer with her, you know. Make sure she gets to the start line on time. Make sure, you know, she gets picked up on time, and I've got, I've got the change of clothes and and the money to pay the for the massage table, if, if needed that. You know, that's my role. I think success on that end, making sure that what I the effort I give at the office, is the effort I give at home. And sometimes that's not easy,   Michael Hingson ** 54:06 but, but you do it, which is what is so cool, and you are very volitional about doing that. So Lori's a runner,   Chris Blum ** 54:12 yep, yep. She's, she's a marathon runner, half, half marathon runner. I try to be as well. I just my mind can't, can't stay focused for 26 miles. I can stay focused for 13 and and be glad that I'm done with with that part.   Michael Hingson ** 54:32 Does she work?   Chris Blum ** 54:33 Yeah, she's a, she's a seventh grade school teacher. Oh, cool. And so she's up. She's been a, she's been a school teacher since I married her, and then she she took some time off to run the household when my son was born, our son was born, so she, she was the CEO of the Blum household for nine years, and then she jumped back into the teaching world.   Michael Hingson ** 54:58 Now it's a team effort. Yes,   Chris Blum ** 55:02 and so, and yeah. And then success for me personally is making sure you know that I'm, you know, staying in relatively good shape and and and being healthy, and, you know, being proactive, you know, with my health and I need to do a better job of watching what I eat. From a healthy standpoint, I love watching cake and cookies and sugar. You know, desserts go into my mouth. But, you know, I like to make sure that I stay in shape through classes at the Y I teach a spinning class to help get help. Help participants start their day off. It's, it's a 530 Tuesday morning. So let's, let's get the day off while most people are sleeping. Let's, let's get the blood flowing. You know, set, set a good, good example for for our other family members who're still home in bed, but get, get yourself off to a to a good start, and just try to keep the body movement we're we're meant to move and and I, I spend a lot of time sitting at my desk, sitting in my car, sitting at, you know, tables, talking to people. So I gotta be up and moving and just making sure that I'm healthy. Because I, you know, want to be able to play golf and want to be able to, you know, survive and snow, yep, do things as I get get older.   Michael Hingson ** 56:43 There you go. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? I'm sure that you've, you know, you had mentors and coaches and people that you've worked with, and a lot of people I'm sure have offered advice. What's the one that sticks out in your brain?   Chris Blum ** 57:01 One of my, yeah, one of my first bosses. He told me, always trust your instincts. It seemed like every time I'd ask him a question that I was, you know, or I had a something I was dealing with, trust your instincts.   Michael Hingson ** 57:16 Good piece of advice. That's that's always   Chris Blum ** 57:18 there. And then a co worker of mine when I was at the Boy Scout Foundation. He, he had a slogan, shut up and do stuff. And I just always thought that that, you know, it's kind of his version of Talk is cheap, you know. And so, yeah, I think trust your instincts. And then the shut up and do stuff always makes me laugh, but it's just something that I just kind of   Michael Hingson ** 57:49 remember and make sense. Well, where do you see the nonprofit world going in the next five or 10 years? I mean, we're seeing so many changes in so many things, and everybody is trying to grab a little piece of each of us and so on. Where do you see nonprofits going?   Chris Blum ** 58:08 It's it's going to continue to be a challenge. I think the nonprofits need to, need to refocus how we put together strategic plans. I mean, you know, having a three to five year plan is just non realistic anymore. Your your strategic plan is probably six to eight months, and then it's gotta, it's gonna, it's constantly evolving because, you know, the world is changing that that that quickly. I think nonprofits, those that are going to survive and be successful, need to operate more like a business. So many times in the nonprofit world, my experience is when times get tough, they cut back on marketing dollars. They let go of their development staff, which, in the for profit world, that would be like, Well, why are you, you know, if times are tough, you got to sell more so you got to, you know, your salesman. You got to, do, you know, make more sales. You make more product. You don't cut your sales force to in the for profit world. So I think nonprofit wise, we've got to operate. We've got to change our mindset. You know, not only the staff getting out of the scarcity mentality, but also our boards, making sure that our boards understand it's okay to end the year with a with a surplus, because you can use that surplus to put it into an endowment. You can use that surplus to fund cash flow to pay down debt. Having a surplus, you're a winning team. People. People want to be on a winning team. You know, you don't want to recruit new board members and say, Oh yeah, by the way, we're. We got, you know, a debt of this amount, and we don't know how to get out of it's, it's easy to recruit a board member. Hey, we had a we had a significant surplus. We were blessed because we were, you know, we tightened our belt. We were aggressive in fundraising and relationship building. And we've got money in the bank. Our balance sheets positive. So I think again, in five years, the nonprofits that continue to be aggressive and strategic with relationship building and sharing their mission and then operating like a business and not, oh, we don't want to spend money on this. Let's see if we can donate. Get it donated. Well, you're spending all your time and effort to try to get something donated that if you would have just spent the $500 to take care of it already been taken care of, but you just spent your your staff time and energy trying to get it donated, and a lot of times, it ends up costing you more to get it donated than if you would have just wrote the check. Yeah, and I think you know, and I do feel that several foundations are starting to understand that we've got to operate like a business. We don't, you know, because years ago, foundations that you could never put in your proposal that this is going to fund a staff position. You had to call it, you know, program delivery, yeah, and, you know, because nobody wanted to fund overhead. And if your overhead was over, you know, 40% or whatever, you just weren't doing stuff effectively, right? We've got to change. We're changing our the nonprofits that change their messaging to here's your impact. Yes, we have we might have 40% overhead, but we serve 30,000 people. Would you rather do that than have 10% overhead and serve 3000 people? Which impact do you want to make? And you know, the more people you serve, the greater impact that you have. Chances are your your overhead is going to be more and so sharing that message, getting your board to understand that, that it's it's okay to it's okay to budget a five or 6% raise for your staff. You know, well, the industry standard, and you know, in our industry, is three Well, 3% when you're making 150 or $200,000 sounds like a lot. You know, 3% when you're making 50 or $60,000 that's not a whole lot. A six or 7% raise, you know, is, is more impactful at that 50 or $60,000 level, and what you'll keep good quality people, you know it, you know, again, the nonprofit sector is always going to be here again, I think the the ones in five years, the ones that act like a business, that relate to donors, that take more of a relationship based for the fundraising part, and educating the donors. You know, sometimes I think, oh, they give us a lot of money, but do we really tell them what we're what we're about and and do we ask them to, do we ask them to critique our our annual report? Or do we ask them to, you know? Do ask them to review the golf or some assignments, just to say, hey, what do you what do you think you know? You know? And I've been guilty of this too, or they don't really need to know that. But sometimes it's, you know, it's just a courtesy, and maybe they see something. Hey, you know, I wouldn't put these two guys together because they're competitors or whatnot, but have we? Do we ask donors and, and our board, you know, their for their thoughts and, and, you know, so I think, yeah, five years down the road, it, it'll be interesting. I like to joke. I hope I'm retired by then, but my, my son, will be going into college then, so I think I'm going to still be working to to fund his college, his college adventure. But is, is he in scouting? He was in scouts we I was his den leader. He was one of the first lion cubs that we, that we had here in Lincoln, as lion cubs started and we got through arrow of light. And then he went to a first couple of his troop meetings. And then other other things got. Got to compete for his time, music, music in school. And it happens, baseball and basketball and our, our cub Dan went through that covid, those two covid years, and so it, it was. It was pretty rough. I. Yeah, I would like to see, it's going to be interesting to see the the effects that covid has had on that, on that group of kids that you know for basically three years actually, here in Lincoln. Three years were, you know, my son, yeah, third grade year. Half Year was work, learning from home. Yeah. Fourth grade year was all mask. Fifth grade year was, I think, all masks. So, you know, but a lot of those extracurricular activities for those three years, we weren't meeting in churches. We weren't, you know, we weren't doing the social things. I I'm curious to see how that, how that affects them down the road. And there were a lot of organizations that it covid really struggled. You know, the the service clubs that had, you know, relied on those weekly meetings, and those that weekly human interaction, those really struggled, yeah, and so he still, you know, he still reminds me when we're doing stuff, he's like, oh, gotta take this. Gotta be prepared, Dad, we don't. We don't need three bags for full of stuff. But okay, yep, you're, you're right. We need to, we need to be prepared. So had a, we had a great time in in Cub Scouts, and several of several the kids in Cub Scouts are now all on the baseball team and the basketball team and several of the parents. It's funny because few of the parents that I was the den leader for their kid, they're now the coach. They're the baseball and basketball coach for my son. So that just takes a village.   Michael Hingson ** 1:06:36 It does well if people want to support the heartland Cancer Foundation and reach out to you. How do they do that?   Chris Blum ** 1:06:43 It's, it's, again, real simple. Go online, Heartland Cancer Foundation, org, click the donate button. Or they can, and they can, you know, make a donation, cash check. You know, we can take, we can take Venmo, you know, we'll take, we can take stock gifts, you know, we, we can help, help anybody out who's willing to, to make an impact for cancer patients here in Nebraska. But yeah, our website, Heartland Cancer Foundation, org, tells you all about us. If you're, you know, if you're want to come to our Mardi Gras gala February 17, it's a that's a good time. It's like being in New Orleans without having to go to New Orleans. We we do a golf tournament in August here. So if you're, if you're a golfer, and find yourself in Lincoln, Nebraska, we'd love to have you at our at firethorne Country Club.   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:43 And if, if they'd like to chat with you, how can they do that?   Chris Blum ** 1:07:47 It's very, very easy. You can send me an email at Chris at Heartland, Cancer foundation.org, or you can can reach out to me cell phone number 972-835-5747, that's a that's a Texas number. I just learned that number. I wasn't going to relearn a new number when I moved to Lincoln here. So I actually use that to my advantage, because when it comes up, people think, Oh, they're calling me about lapsed auto insurance or life insurance. So I get to leave a voicemail, and they're like, Oh, the heartland Cancer Foundation.   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:22 Okay, yeah. Well, Chris, I want to thank you for spending all this time with us. I value it and really appreciate you telling us all the things that you have and on all the insights. It's been very educational for me and inspiring, and I hope it has been for everyone listening. I hope that you all enjoyed Chris's comments. We'd love to hear from you. Of course, as I always ask, I love a five star rating from you, if you would please, wherever you're listening to us, if you'd like to reach out to me. It's easy. It's Michael, H, I M, I C, H, A, E, L, H I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, E.com, or go to our podcast page, www.michaelhinkson.com/podcast and Michael Hingson is spelled M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S O Ncom/podcast, but again, love to get five star rating from you. We value that very highly. And any opinions and comments that you'd like to make love to read them. And so Chris, for you and any of you listening, if you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. We're always looking for people. And I have to ask Chris, since she said this is your first podcast, how did it go for you?   Chris Blum ** 1:09:38 Well, I enjoyed it. I guess probably need to get, need to get the see how many rating, five star ratings you get. Yeah, we'll have to see how that goes. But yeah, very, very nice. It. It was good. Brought me with the headset and the microphone. It brought me back to my radio radio station days in college,   Michael Hingson ** 1:09:58 and so I know the feeling. Well, yeah, well,   Chris Blum ** 1:10:01 me too. If you need, need another speaker down the road, I can, I can come up with some, some other topics to talk about, I guess.   Michael Hingson ** 1:10:09 Well, if you want to, you're welcome to to do that. If you want to shoot some more questions and all that, let's, let's do it again. Always will be, I'm always ready. Yeah, happy,   Chris Blum ** 1:10:20 happy to do it. But let's, let's see how many of your star ratings you get. If you get like, half a star for this one, then you're probably like, Yeah, we're gonna lose Chris's email. Nah.   Michael Hingson ** 1:10:29 Never happened. Well, thanks once again for being here and for all your time. All right. Thank   Chris Blum ** 1:10:35 you very much, Michael.   **Michael Hingson ** 1:10:40 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visi

In this episode, Rich and Mel interview Pastor Anthony Delgado of Palmdale Church, California, who dives deep into the transformative power of Dr. Michael Heiser's Divine Council worldview and its impact on his predominantly Hispanic, working-class congregation. Anthony shares how his church has woven this theology into their structure, striking a unique balance between formality and community. From addressing real-life challenges like substance abuse to creating an inclusive environment for special needs families, Pastor Delgado discusses the importance of discipleship, allegiance to Christ, and expanding our understanding of the Gospel. A powerful conversation on faith, transformation, and the role of Jesus as Christus Victor.

The recent UFO invasion recorded over the skies of Palmdale, CA has been conclusively connected to the top secret Airforce facility, Plant 42! Are they Chines Lanterns, Drones or UFO's? Listen in to learn more. https://youtu.be/BGnGqEu-M48?si=FuTQenQ8lCfVBZzY

Welcome to the Forbidden Frontier with hosts Gary from  @nerdrotic , Adam Crigler from  @TheCriglerShow  and  @QTRBlackGarrett  from  @NormalWorld  Produced by  @XrayGirl_  Streamlab Donations LINK: https://streamlabs.com/sutrowatchtower/tipContinue reading

Send us a Text Message.In this episode, we dive into the Russian Ruble's dramatic plunge—just 7 cents of a dollar will get you one ruble now. The monkeypox pandemic alarm has been rung, raising eyebrows worldwide. We discuss the Australian Olympic scandal, where an athlete's supposedly innovative dance move turned out to be part of a shady plan with her husband. Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson—what's up with a young guy fighting an old man who just got out of the hospital? Plus, a bizarre encounter with a homeless woman and her darkly ironic sign. Biden's audio clip claims to be unedited, but it's clearly doctored. Earthquakes everywhere—or are they just tremors? And a Brazilian plane crash with 8 cancer researchers on board—there's something strange about how it all went down. Finally, the Palmdale UFO sighting? Just a drone show.Tune in for your dose of the absurd, the strange, and the outright ridiculous!R2 Cents www.r2centswoscar.comSubscribe YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/@Racso_Studios R2 Cents Instagram https://www.instagram.com/r2_cents/R2 Cents Tik Tokhttps://vm.tiktok.com/r2_centsProduced by: Oscar R.C.

UFOs are being spotted in Lancaster and Palmdale, California via Ring cameras. What's going on here? And why is California such a hotspot for UFO activity? LISTEN to our Podcasts - D/REZZED Video Game News - https://link.chtbl.com/drezzed Clownfish TV: Audio Edition - https://link.chtbl.com/ClownfishTV ➡️ Tip Jar and Fan Support: http://ClownfishSupport.com ➡️ Official Merch Store: http://ShopClownfish.com ➡️ Official Website: http://ClownfishTV.com Recent UFO sightings in California, particularly in Palmdale and Lancaster, are generating national interest and speculation about advanced government technology, potential misidentifications, and the influence of military activity. 00:00 UFO sightings in California, particularly in Palmdale and Lancaster, are trending nationally, with witnesses reporting unusual flying patterns and prompting investigations. 04:43 Mass UFO sightings in Palmdale near Edwards Air Force Base spark speculation about advanced government aircraft testing. 07:16 Recent UFO sightings in California may be misidentified drones, complicated by technology that blurs the line between genuine and edited footage. 09:15 Upcoming UFO sightings in California spark debate over their authenticity amid conspiracy theories linking them to election distractions and military tests. 11:21 Multiple UFO sightings in Lancaster and Palmdale, including five zigzagging in ten seconds, spark speculation about geographic influences and military activity. 13:31 Recent UFO sightings in California are raising questions about their authenticity, with many attributing them to drones or digital manipulation amid a growing willingness to report such phenomena. 15:23 Witnesses in California and Pennsylvania report unusual aerial activity and military aircraft, sparking UFO speculation. 17:25 Increased military activity in California coincides with recent mass UFO sightings, raising speculation about advanced technology and government secrecy surrounding unidentified aerial phenomena. Disclaimer: This series is produced by Clownfish Studios and WebReef Media, and is part of ClownfishTV.com. Opinions expressed by our contributors do not necessarily reflect the views of our guests, affiliates, sponsors, or advertisers. ClownfishTV.com is an unofficial news source and has no connection to any company that we may cover. This channel and website and the content made available through this site are for educational, entertainment and informational purposes only. These so-called “fair uses” are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. #Paranormal #UFOs #News #Commentary #Reaction #Podcast #Comedy #Entertainment #Hollywood #PopCulture #Tech

It's the first day of school for kids in LA, Burbank and Palmdale plus Mayor Karen Bass is bringing the official Olympic flag back to LA. 

TJ interviews pastor, author and podcaster Anthony Delgado about his recent books and how they help readers connect to a deeper understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

In the early hours of February 22, 2000, the body of 18-year-old Michelle O'Keefe was discovered in a dimly lit parking lot in Palmdale, California. The young college student and aspiring actress was found in her own blue Mustang, partially undressed with blood splattered across the interior. She had been shot multiple times. 

A few weeks ago my friend Nate took me out fishing for the first time on his dinghy. While it wasn't as erotic as it might sound I had a blast nonetheless. I caught my first fish and he caught about ten or twelve. We talked during the whole thing embracing the quiet morning, spotting our friend and podcast alumni Palmdale, discussed Nate's future plans for therapeutic fishing lessons for veterans with post-traumatic stress, humble beginnings catching sticks, and a fair amount of stigmatized subjects to ponder. 

It's Friday, June 28th, A.D. 2024. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard at www.TheWorldview.com. I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Adam McManus Laos officials arrest pastor and 5 Christians On June 22nd, village officials in central Laos arrested Pastor Mum and five other Christians as they prayed in preparation for worship services the next day, reports Morning Star News. Sirikoon Prasertsee, director of Human Rights Watcher for Lao Religious Freedom, said, “The arrests took place on Saturday at Mr. Mum's home. They are currently being imprisoned in Xaibouathong District prison.” After Pastor Mum put his faith in Christ in 2019 upon experiencing God's healing, he established a church that worshipped freely in his home According to Open Doors, Laos is the 21st most difficult country worldwide in which to be a Christian. Please keep Pastor Mum and the other five Christians in your prayers. Biden gave confusing answer on economy Last night in Atlanta, President Joe Biden, the Democrat, debated former President Donald Trump, the Republican, on CNN ahead of the November 5th presidential election. With Jake Tapper and Dana Bash as co-anchors, the set up was unusual. Unlike most presidential debates, there was no live audience.  Plus, during the answer of one candidate, his opponent's microphone was turned off which prevented any interruptions. (You can watch the entire 90-minute debate or read the debate transcript through special links at www.TheWorldview.com.) Out of the gate, the hosts asked about the economy.  Biden championed the redistribution of wealth and then became confused, reports LifeSiteNews.com. Listen. BIDEN: “What I'm gonna do is fix the tax system. For example, we have 1,000 trillionaires in America, I mean billionaires in America. And what's happening? They're in a situation where they, in fact, pay 8.2% in taxes. If they just paid 24%, 25% -- either one of those numbers -- they raise $500 million dollars, billion dollars I should say, in a 10-year period. We'd be able to wipe out his debt. “We'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do -- child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our healthcare system, making sure that we're able to make every single, solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the, with the COVID, excuse me, with um, dealing with everything we have to do with, uh..  Look, we finally beat Medicare.” Trump claimed that illegals will bankrupt Social Security and Medicare JAKE TAPPER: “Thank you, President Biden. President Trump?” TRUMP: “Well, he's right. He did beat Medicare. He beat it to death and he's destroying Medicare. Because all of these people are coming in. They're putting them on Medicare. They're putting them on Social Security. They're going to destroy Social Security. This man is going to single-handedly destroy Social Security. “These millions and millions of people coming in. They're trying to put them on Social Security. He will wipe out Social Security. He will wipe out Medicare. So, he was right in the way he finished that sentence. And it's a shame. What's happened to our country in the last four years is not to be believed.” Trump speaks out in favor of Abortion Kill Pill Dana Bash asked about the Abortion Kill Pill which 63% of mothers who abort their children use instead of surgical abortion today. BASH: “This is the first presidential election since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. This morning, the court ruled on yet another abortion case, temporarily allowing emergency abortions to continue in Idaho. “Despite that state's restrictive ban, former President Trump, you take credit for the decision to overturn Roe v Wade which returned the issue of abortion to the states.” TRUMP: “Correct.” BASH: “However, the federal government still plays a role in whether or not women have access to abortion pills. They're used in about two-thirds of all abortions. As President, would you block abortion medication?” TRUMP: “First of all, the Supreme Court just approved the Abortion Pill. And I agree with their decision to have done that. And I will not block it. “If you look at this whole question that you're asking is 51 years ago. You had Roe v. Wade, and everybody wanted to get it back to the states. Everybody -- without exception, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives -- everybody wanted to back -- religious leaders. “And what I did is I put three great Supreme Court justices on the court, and they happened to vote in favor of killing Roe v. Wade, and moving it back to the states. Now the states are working it out. If you look at Ohio, it was a decision that was an end result that was a little bit more liberal than you would have thought. Kansas, I would say the same thing. Texas is different. Florida is different, but they're all making their own decisions right now. And right now, the states control it. That's the vote of the people.” In Psalm 139:13-14, David says to God, “For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise You because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Your works are wonderful, I know that full well.” Biden championed abortion, then fell apart President Biden, who has campaigned on his commitment to codify Roe v. Wade into law, took issue with Trump's victory lap over Roe v. Wade's defeat. BIDEN: “It's been a terrible thing what you've done. The fact is that the vast majority of constitutional scholars supported Roe when it was decided, supported Roe. This idea that they're all against it, it's just ridiculous. And this is the guy who says the state should be able to have it. We're in a state where in six weeks, you don't even know whether you're pregnant or not, but you cannot see a doctor and have him decide on what your circumstances are, whether you need help. “The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying, ‘We're gonna turn civil rights back to the states -- that each state has a different role.' “Look, there's so many young women -- including a young woman who just was murdered, and [Trump] went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by an immigrant coming into, they talk about that. But here's the deal. There's a lot of young women to be raped by their, by their in-laws, by their spouses, brothers and sisters. By, it's just, it's just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And then they try to arrest them when they cross state lines.” BASH: “Thank you.” The age of the candidates, and their golf games, were addressed Dana Bash raised the issue of age with both candidates. This is how Trump responded. BASH: “Former President Trump, you would be 82 at the end of your second term. What do you say to voters who have concerns about your capabilities to serve?” TRUMP: “Well, I took two tests, cognitive tests. I aced them, both of them as you know. We made it public. He took none. I'd like to see him take one, just one, a real easy one. Like go through the first five questions. You couldn't do it. I took physical exams every year. I'm in very good health. “I just won two club championships, not even senior, two regular club championships. To do that, you have to be quite smart, and you have to be able to hit the ball a long way. And I do it. He doesn't do it. He can't hit a ball 50 yards. He challenged me to a golf match. I think I'm in very good shape. I feel that I'm in as good a shape as I was 25, 30 years ago. Actually, I'm probably a little bit lighter.” BASH: “President Biden?” BIDEN: “I'd be happy to have a driving contest with him. I got my handicap, which when I was vice president, down to a six. By the way, I told you before, I'm happy to play golf, if you carry your own bag. Do you think you can do it?” TRUMP: “That's the biggest lie that he is a six handicap of all." BIDEN: “I was at an eight handicap.” TRUMP: “Yeah, I've seen his swing. I know your swing. Let's not act like children.” BIDEN: “You are a child!” Presidential historian: “Most disjointed, least substantive, most dishonest debate” Appearing on “News Nation,” presidential historian Chris Stirewalt offered this analysis. STIREWALT: “In the 64 years of presidential debates, I feel pretty confident that I can say this is the worst one that has ever been done. The most disjointed, the least substantive, the most dishonest. I'm sure the only one that involved a debate about golf handicaps, fat jokes, and somebody calling somebody ‘Brandon.' This was a real low watermark. “I will say that no incumbent has ever done as poorly as Joe Biden did. In 1976, Gerald R. Ford got tangled up talking about Poland and Soviet domination of Poland. And it probably cost him a full term as president. It probably cost him that election. “And I'm here to tell you that what Joe Biden did tonight in the first hour of that debate, if he stays in this race, we will look back and say that the strategy by the Biden campaign to force an early debate and put Donald Trump front and center, and get this revved up, was a catastrophically bad strategic choice.” Why two Montana teens gave $100 and $25 to The Worldview Last night, I talked to a 17-year-old named Amos in Montana who gave $25 to help fund The Worldview. AMOS: “The money I contributed came from a job I have for our family business. People hire us to carry off their junk or just stuff they don't use anymore. We take it mostly just to the dump or, if we can, resell it or take to the thrift store. We like to do that too.” Amos told me what he likes about the newscast. AMOS: “I like the updates on the persecuted brothers and sisters around the world. It encourages me to pray for them more.” Plus, he mentioned the greatest moral issue of our time. AMOS: “I appreciate the updates on legislation concerning abortion in the U.S. and around the world. It helps me to pray for good leadership more. So, my prayer is that God's love for life would be upheld in our country.” I also spoke to a 13-year-old named Dahlia who lives in Helena, Montana. DAHLIA: “I like how you add Bible verses to some of your stories that you tell.” She decided to give $100. DAHLIA: “I have been listening to The Worldview for a long time and I would be sad if it stopped. So, when I decided to give some money, one hundred dollars is just what came to my mind.” Dahlia makes money by playing her violin at the Helena, Montana Farmer's Market every Saturday. DAHLIA: “People passing by usually give me tips in my violin case. I play about an hour at a time, for four hours. Over the course of four hours, I usually get around a hundred dollars of tips. And that's what I decided to donate to The Worldview.” In Acts 20:35, “The Lord Jesus Himself said: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.'” 32 Worldview listeners donated $15,977.47 And finally, toward our $84,000 final goal by 5:00pm central this Saturday, June 29th, 32 Worldview listeners stepped up to the plate to help fund our 6-member news team for another fiscal year. Our thanks to Thor, age 12, in Pleasantville, Tennessee who gave $9, Tirzah, age 10, in Pleasantville, Tennessee who gave $11, Oliver in Santa Maria, California who gave $20, as well as Steve in Mission Viejo, California, Leslie in Florham Park, New Jersey, and Rick in Vista, California  – each of whom gave $25. We're grateful for Rob in Annandale, Virginia who gave $25.47 as well as Margaret in Howell, Michigan, Michelle in Sparta, Michigan, and Emily in Hutchinson, Kansas – each of whom gave $50. We appreciate Tiveria, age 16, and Tikvah, age 16, -- both of whom are from Pleasantville, Tennessee, and gave $60 each, Tony and Jennie in Palmdale, California who gave $75, as well as Nancy in Ketchikan, Alaska, Evan in Marietta, Georgia, Emmilee in Center Point, Iowa, Patricia in Blackfoot, Idaho, and Elisha in Paris, Texas – each of whom gave $100. We were touched by the support of Frederick in Kennesaw, Georgia who pledged $10/month for 12 months for a gift of $120, an anonymous donor in San Antonio, Texas, Amy in St. Cloud, Florida, and Serge in Simpsonville, South Carolina – each of whom gave $200. We're thankful to God for Heidi in Elsenham, Essex, England and Julie in White Hall, Maryland – both of whom gave $300 as well as Dean in Paulden, Arizona and Patricia in Blackfoot, Idaho – both of whom pledged $25/month for 12 months for a gift of $300. And we appreciated the sacrifice of Nathan in Shokan, New York who pledged $31/month for 12 months for a gift of $372, an anonymous donor in Kailua Kona, Hawaii who gave $500, Rochester in Willow Springs, Missouri and Reese in Henrico, Virginia – both of whom pledged $50/month for 12 months for a gift of $600 each, Vivia in Florida City, Florida who gave $1,000, and Phillip and Christine in Belton, Texas who gave $10,000! Those 32 donors gave $15,977.47.  Ready for our new grand total? Drum roll please. (sound effect of drum roll) $80,138 (audience cheering) We just need to raise $3,862 to cross the finish line! Wow!  We are so close!  Toward our $84,000 goal, we are just $3,862 short. Can you help us cross the finish line?  We need to find just 1 person to pledge $100 per month for 12 months, 2 people to pledge $50 per month for 12 months, and 4 people to pledge $25/month for 12 months. We need you to respond by 5:00pm central tomorrow night, Saturday, June 29th. Time is ticking. (ticking sound effect) Go to TheWorldview.com, click on “Give,” select the dollar amount you'd like to donate, and click on the recurring monthly tab if that's your wish. Ask God what He wants you to give to this newscast that proclaims Jesus Christ as our standard for Truth. It would be my great honor if I could return to these airwaves and announce that the body of Christ helped to fully fund The Worldview newscast 6-member team for the next fiscal year.  If you haven't made a donation yet, please do so today! Close And that's The Worldview on this Friday, June 28th, in the year of our Lord 2024. Subscribe by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com. Or get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

We start the show off with some Super Cross Talk with Mason & Ireland. The NBA Draft is today. What big moves could we potentially see? There has been Rumors that Suns Forward Kevin Durant could be on the move. We play sound from Brian Windhorst & Stephen A Smith. We spend some time talking about where Paul George is from.. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When a nurse is gunned down in her home, detectives initially believe they have a clear suspect, but new information leads them down a completely different path. Josh Mankiewicz reports.

Steve Gregory Officials with the @LACOFD say a firefighter has been killed in the line of duty in Palmdale. LAX road rage turns into a running race knocked a woman out. Elex Michaleson what's happening in local politics. Stanley Cup playoffs. 

Boeing's Starliner capsule launched this morning for its first astronaut-crewed flight into space to the International Space Station (ISS) after several delays. GUEST: ALEX STONE - Boeing's Starliner capsule launched this morning for its first astronaut-crewed flight into space to the International Space Station (ISS) after several delays. BREAKING: Father of missing baby boy in Palmdale now charged with murder, child abuse. More Than 28 million Americans Under Extreme Heat Warnings Today; Temperatures in Phoenix could break 129-year record // 'Bomb Cyclone' and Other Weird Weather Words To Know.

It's Wednesday, June 5th, A.D. 2024. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard at www.TheWorldview.com. I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Jonathan Clark Tiananmen Square massacre anniversary Yesterday was the 35th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre in China. In the weeks leading up to the massacre in 1989, students were leading pro-democracy protests in Beijing. In response, the Communist Chinese government forcibly put down the protests, killing hundreds if not thousands. China's military also arrested leaders in the underground church which had fueled the protests.  Persecution of Christians in Hong Kong Speaking of China, the country's persecution of Christians continues and is spreading to Hong Kong.  Since 2020, China has extended control over Hong Kong. This has led to the arrest of church leaders and the closure of some religious groups. Many Christians have left Hong Kong for the United Kingdom, making the Chinese church the fastest growing one in Britain.  Hong Kong Christians put out a commemorative prayer for the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre. Despite authorities banning candlelight vigils, the prayer says, "Let us, in the great light of the Lord's amazing grace, light a candle in the depths of our souls, to continue their unfinished aspirations in the prayers and shadows, never to be lost or forgotten. O Lord! Let there be light in our hearts.” In Matthew 5:14, Jesus said, “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” United Kingdom blocks puberty blockers Last Wednesday, the United Kingdom issued new restrictions on puberty blockers for children in England, Wales, and Scotland.  The emergency ban lasts from June 3 to September 3, 2024. During the timeframe, doctors cannot prescribe the transgender drugs to people under 18. The new policy also introduced indefinite restrictions to the prescribing of these drugs by primary care providers in England's National Health Service.  Genesis 1:27 says, “So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” Biden caps southern border illegals to 2,500 per day Ahead of the U.S. presidential election, President Joe Biden issued an executive order yesterday to curb illegal immigration at the U.S.-Mexico border. The order limits asylum requests once the average number of daily border encounters hits 2,500. The number of daily encounters is already above that. So, the order is expected to go into effect immediately.  It will stay in effect until the number of daily encounters drops to 1,500 or lower. The last time border encounters were at that level was 2020. Texas and Florida responsible for half of America's new jobs In the last five years, just two states were responsible for over half of new jobs in America. Those states are Texas and Florida.  The conservative states feature lower wages which is attractive to companies wanting to create jobs, and lower cost of living which is attractive to workers. Not surprisingly, many people with remote jobs moved to states, like Florida and Texas, which have a lower cost of living. Meanwhile, liberal states with high wages and cost of living fell out of the top 10 job-creating states. They include California, New York, Washington state, and Massachusetts. California used to be the top job creator between 2014 and 2019. Now, it's at the bottom.  How Indiana cut abortions by 98% The Indiana Department of Health released a report on abortions in the state for the first quarter of 2024. Remarkably, there were only 45 abortions during the first quarter, down from nearly 2,000 during the first quarter of 2023. That's a 98% decrease! Indiana's abortion ban went into effect last August. It outlaws abortions at all stages of pregnancy with some exceptions.   Arkansas had no abortions in 2023 Meanwhile, a report from the Arkansas Department of Health's Vital Statistics found there were no abortions reported during the entirety of last year. The state started enforcing its abortion ban in 2022. Before that, yearly abortions were over 3,000. Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral restored by December after fire The Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, France was devastated by fire back in 2019. Since then, hundreds of companies and craftsmen have been working to restore the cathedral by December of this year. Last month, workers restored the iconic cross on the cathedral's roof.  A project manager told CBS News it was a miracle that the cross didn't burn a lot. The restored cross spans 40 feet and weighs over 3,000 pounds. In other Notre Dame news, Lego just released a 4,383-piece model of the cathedral. It's the first model of a religious structure the toy company has released since it produced a model church in 1957.  The Worldview: A “five-minute dose of freedom” In response to my request for Worldview listeners to email me at Adam@TheWorldview.com to share what the newscast means to them, I heard from Max Wood in Macon, Georgia. He wrote, “John 8:32 tells us that we shall know the truth and the truth will set us free. In a world of fake news, biased news, and propaganda, The Worldview is a daily reminder of what is true and just and inspires us to seek the ultimate truth in God's Word. Thank you for your five-minute dose of freedom every day.” 9 Worldview listeners gave $1,750 Toward out Friday, June 7th goal of raising $28,550 to help keep the newscast on the air, 9 Worldview listeners stepped up to the plate. Our thanks to Wyatt in Summerdale, Alabama who gave $5, Linda in Palmdale, California who gave $25, as well as Jason in Grand Junction, Colorado and Sheila in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania – both of whom gave $50. We also appreciate the generosity of Nancy in Ketchikan, Alaska who gave $100, Sullivan in Las Vegas, Nevada who gave $120, Sammy in Pallara, Queensland, Australia who pledged $25/month for 12 months for a gift of $300, Bill in Castle Rock, Colorado who gave $500, and Kelly in Las Vegas, Nevada who pledged $50/month for 12 months for a gift of $600. Those 9 Worldview listeners gave a total of $1,750. Ready for our new grand total? Drum roll please. (sound effect of drum roll) $3,230 (audience cheering) We have only three days left to raise $25,320.  I wonder if there might be 4 Worldview listeners who could each give $4,000 to jumpstart this week in a major way! But whether you can give $4 or $4,000, please make the donation that God has placed on your heart.  Just go to TheWorldview.com, click on “Give,” select the dollar amount you'd like, and click on the recurring button if that's your wish. Let's see how God will move through you! Close And that's The Worldview in 5 Minutes on this Wednesday, June 5th, in the year of our Lord 2024. Subscribe by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com. Or get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

Dr. Rebekah Wanic is all that and more. She grew up in Chicagoland and decided to major in Psychology during her undergraduate work. She continued her studies after moving to San Diego where she still resides today. Rebekah and I talk about a number of topics from making and being responsible for your choices to reading Braille. Really, reading Braille as you will see turns out to be a quite fascinating and thought-provoking topic. Dr. Wanic offers many thoughtful insights and absolutely wonderful life lessons we all can use. She is the epitome of unstoppable as you will see. She has faced challenges, and she has chosen to work through and overcome them. About the Guest: Dr. Rebekah Wanic is a dynamic motivator who thrives on pushing her boundaries and those of others. Fueled with a passion for hard work and building relationships, she has worked with students, entrepreneurs and individual clients in the U.S. and abroad as a university lecturer and mindset psychologist. Originally from the Chicagoland area, she graduated with a B.S. in Psychology with University Honors from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign before moving to Southern California. There, she earned her Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of California, San Diego with an emphasis in applied social psychology studying the role of power in relationship health and the influence of mindset on social comparison outcomes. Passionate about inspiring the success of others, she has worked as a professional development trainer and adjunct faculty advocate and the internal mindset coach for a company supporting emerging entrepreneurs. Currently, she is a university lecturer, conference speaker, and blogger in addition to working with individual clients on mindset mastery. Dr. Wanic has taught over 16 different psychology courses, ranging from introductory to graduate level. She has taught courses at several different colleges and universities, including National University of Singapore, Nevada State University, Columbia College South Carolina and several community colleges in the San Diego area. Dr. Wanic's home university now is University of San Diego and she also teaches courses at San Diego State University and Nova Southeastern University. Dr. Wanic is also an avid writer. Her work has appeared in academic journals and online publications, including Times Higher Education, Minding the Campus, and Spiked Online. She maintains two blogs, PsychSkeptics and Optimization Notes, aimed at social critique through a psychological lens and self-development. She has a novella set to be released early next year and is working on the manuscript for her next book. She and her twin sister recently created a podcast, Unwarp Reality, designed to help uncover the bias and manipulation in the mainstream media. In addition to her work, she enjoys being active with a healthy balance of reading, watching sports, and just relaxing. Ways to connect with Dr. Rebekah: https://linktr.ee/rebekahwanic https://www.venttoreinvent.com https://venttoreinvent.substack.com/ https://unwarpreality.substack.com/ https://psychskeptics.substack.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi there, and welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're back again. Yep, you haven't lost us yet. Thanks for being here to listen, we really appreciate it. And if you're on YouTube, thanks for being here to watch. Yes, we are on YouTube, as well as all the places where podcasts go. And you are listening to unstoppable mindset. We're inclusion, diversity in the unexpected meet. And it's that way, because inclusion goes a lot further than diversity does. And sometimes we talk about that. And sometimes we don't. And we'll see with our guest today, whether we get to that or not. I don't know whether it'll even come up but it did. And so now it's here. Anyway, I'd like you to meet Rebekah Wanic. Rebekah is a very dynamic individual in a lot of different ways. She's a dynamic motivator, she pushes boundaries. She's an author. She's done a lot in the world of psychology and most important of all, she lives in San Diego, California, which makes me extremely jealous. So Rebekah, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Rebekah Wanic ** 02:19 Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's so great to be here to have this conversation.   Michael Hingson ** 02:24 Well, I lived in Vista for six years, so I know what it's like, which is why I'm jealous. Yes.   Rebekah Wanic ** 02:29 And I appreciate San Diego so much coming from Chicago originally. Every day, especially in the winter is a nice one.   Michael Hingson ** 02:38 When did you leave Chicago?   Rebekah Wanic ** 02:39 I moved to Southern California in 2003. So right when I finished my undergraduate degree.   Michael Hingson ** 02:48 Well, I was born in Chicago, but we moved out when I was five. So I grew up in Palmdale, California, so about 55 miles west of here. So the weather was relatively similar to what we have in Victorville. Not totally similar to what we have in San Diego, but we cope.   Rebekah Wanic ** 03:08 You get more of the extremes than we do. We're pretty insulated here on the coast. Oh, I   Michael Hingson ** 03:13 know. I think it's still the best climate certainly in the whole US if not the whole world. We we didn't get the extremes in San Diego that we get here. And in the winter. We don't get the snow because we're down in the valley. But all the ski resorts around us get the snow. We had two inches of snow one Saturday during this last year. And it was gone by the next day. So as I love to say the kids didn't get even get a snow day.   Rebekah Wanic ** 03:39 But then you also didn't have to shovel Right? Right.   Michael Hingson ** 03:42 When I'm not concerned about needing to have snow. I'm perfectly happy not to have snow here. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to do that. I mean, if we get that much snow here, it must really be bad around us. Although, earlier this year, I heard that mammoth ski resort actually didn't close their doors for the winter. Until August 6 of this year. Like a six they're skiing. Wow. Holy Jamali, as Colombo would say, you know, that's that's kind of crazy. Well, why don't we start? I love to do this with maybe you telling us a little bit about kind of the earlier Rebecca growing up and in Chicago, what life was like and all that sort of stuff?   Rebekah Wanic ** 04:30 Sure. Yeah. So the early Rebecca I think was a malformed version of the Rebecca that exists today. I was really lucky because I have a twin sister. So growing up I always had a companion to kind of play around with and she's super fun interesting person so we it's kind of a built in friends to go explore places with him and I also have an older brother, but you know, because he was a boy and a little bit older wasn't as close with us. But we did a lot of the traditional Midwest growing up things. So most of our vacations were to go visit our grandparents up north in various parts of Michigan, which was quite fun. But I growing up, I had really bad asthma. And so as a consequence of that, I had to be careful being outdoors, I had to be careful going over to friends houses that had dogs, I had to be careful with exercising and everything. So I was kind of the sick one in the family. And my sister to her credit, had to put up with a lot of we need to leave the sleepover, we need to leave this event because she'd be dragged along with me whenever we had to go. And so I don't like the cold as we were just talking about the weather. And as soon as I was able to sort of break out of the Midwest, which was after college, I don't think I was mature enough to move away from home for undergrad. So as soon as I finished my undergrad degree, though, a roommate of mine got a job in Torrance, California, and she said she was going to go out to SoCal. And so I just was like, Well, you know what, I think I'll move out with you. Because I knew I wanted to go to graduate school. And California has a lot of really good graduate programs. And at the time, when I was looking at psychology, some of the top programs were out here. So I just moved out with her lived and worked as a waitress for a year in Redondo Beach. And then, luckily was accepted to UCSD for graduate school. So that's when I moved down to San Diego. And I've been here ever since, with the exception of a small trip to Singapore for a couple of years during COVID.   Michael Hingson ** 06:33 Wow, that's interesting going to Singapore, what took you to Singapore, a   Rebekah Wanic ** 06:39 job, I got a really great opportunity to teach at their National University of Singapore, which is consistently one of the top schools in Asia. So it was really fortunate to be offered the position there. If the unfortunate thing was just the timing, because I went in November of 2020. And so I was mostly there during COVID. And there was a lot of restrictions. And so it was really difficult to kind of integrate and develop, you know, a social life when you don't know anybody. And you're in a totally new place. But it was still a great experience, I would say,   Michael Hingson ** 07:09 what's your sister's name, by the way, Liz, Liz. So you're not identical twins.   Rebekah Wanic ** 07:14 We are identical for you. But   Michael Hingson ** 07:16 you didn't have names that began with the same letter? No,   Rebekah Wanic ** 07:19 we are not saddled with that. But all of our names are biblical names. So my grandpa was a Lutheran pastor. So my sister and I have names from the Bible, and then most of our cousins do as well. What's your older brother's name? My brother's name is Andrew. So he's, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:38 that's fair. Okay. My late wife's relatives, a lot of the girls had middle names of Lynn. Oh, Tracy, Lynn, Vicki Lynn and so on. So on. Chelsea Lynn and Chelsea is Tracy's daughter Vicki was Karen sister, and Tracy's mom. But Chelsea when she started having her two kids decided she did not want Lynn for their names. And she has one name Scarlet. And the other is Charlie. Charlie is Charlie Rose. And I forget what Scarlett who's a year older as her middle name is, but not Lynne.   Rebekah Wanic ** 08:18 That Lynn Excellent.   Michael Hingson ** 08:21 But yeah, I you know, I remember Chicago a little bit. I don't remember a lot of snow. But I remember school. I remember walking to the local candy store and doing some things around Chicago. And I was was blind back then as well. I was blind from birth due to being born prematurely and being given too much oxygen, which is something that happens. But, but nevertheless, you know, we survived. And it all worked out pretty well. So, and I had a lot of fun in Chicago. I was back there a few years ago. And it was in March. I was visiting cousins who still live there. I think they were in DeKalb. Okay. And it was a Sunday and it was the day I was going to be leaving to fly back out to California. But that morning, it was the morning of the polar plunge into Lake Michigan. Oh, okay. So Jimmy Fallon and Rahm Emanuel were to two of the people who were there. Rahm was the mayor at that time. And of course, Jimmy Fallon. And they were going to do the polar plunge and the reporters after they did it had a lot of not nice things to say about them because they said, these guys were dumb. They went into the lake dressed in their full business suits. And right around the same time they went in there was this woman near them who went in in her skimpy bathing suit so when she came out, they all went into the warming tent. You can imagine how long it took Fallon's and the manuals clothes to dry and she was drying Oh time. I agree Sir Porter was not well planned was fun. But it was pretty cold. I think we were down. The temperature was I think minus, no, I guess it was like three degrees. So it wasn't quite zero, but it was close.   Rebekah Wanic ** 10:16 Yeah, I was there last winter. It wasn't really that bad of a winter, we didn't have some of the extreme stuff. I remember one time growing up, it had rained, and then it froze overnight. So when we got to walk to school, everything was coated in ice. And on the trees, it looks really, really cool because it was kind of like crystals all over, you know, it was left to the branches and stuff. But walking on the sidewalk was not pleasant, because you just sort of slipped as you walked up a hill, you were slipping back down as   Michael Hingson ** 10:51 well, in May of 2001. So September 11, hadn't happened yet. They had a late snowstorm. Now our house was on what we call a pie shape, lots of the driveway, went out to the street, and then came in 65 feet, and then the lat spread out so we could build so we could have a house. But it was I guess sort of terrorist. Our basement was a walkout basement. And then on the first floor, there was a deck that was built in it was over the place where you could walk out on the basement side to go outside. But as soon as you walk outside from the basement, you got to go down a hill. And that's where I would take the dogs to do their business. There was not a fenced yard. But right at the end of what our property would be, it was kind of a small forest. And on one side on the other side was route 22, which was really noisy, but the snow came, which was no big deal. But the next day, the sun came out and melted some of the snow. So that night, the ice was as slick as glass, oh man, and I put on my boots and took the dogs out and went down that hill. Somehow I made it down. And I even made it back up. But then I decided after that I am not going to do that anymore. So I have a long leash, a flex leash. And I stood at the top of the hill and I let the dogs go down. And I didn't do it.   Rebekah Wanic ** 12:19 Very smart.   Michael Hingson ** 12:20 It was I'd never experienced anything like that in the rest of the time that we had been in New Jersey. But that's what what happened that day. It was crazy. And it was that way for a couple of days.   Rebekah Wanic ** 12:31 Wow. And that can be really dangerous. Because you don't you don't necessarily even recognize that all the ice is there. I did. Luckily for you.   Michael Hingson ** 12:41 Yeah, well, it was pretty treacherous. But I'm you know, the dogs didn't seem to have any problem with it. Bless them. That was great. Yeah. Not i I'm glad I didn't go go out anymore. But then I'm warmed up. And now all went well. But you know, it's it's it's interesting, I love the United States, because we do get to talk about the weather and, and the fact that it's so different throughout various parts of the country. I visited excessively in Israel in August. And they kind of can kind of can talk about the weather there because in the south or near the ocean or near the ocean, there's a lot more humidity and less than the North. It gets as hot as it does here. I don't know that they really believe that. But it does. We get at least as hot as Israel. But we don't get the humidity here. But they talk about the weather from a standpoint in part of humidity, but they don't have to worry about as much snow.   Rebekah Wanic ** 13:40 That's true. Yes, Singapore is this. It's pretty much hot there. Every day it rains somewhere every day. Not really a lot of seasonal variation, except in terms of the amount of rain that you're getting. But for me, it's I don't like cold. I was happy to be in 95 degrees every day. Most people wouldn't like it, but I loved it.   Michael Hingson ** 14:03 Well, you're not doing too bad in San Diego. And as you said, at least you don't have the extreme so on on any given day, you can go out to do cafe and have dinner. Yeah. Not suffer too much. So Halloween won't be probably as cold for you as it usually is for us. It gets it gets cold at night and I'm afraid it's going to do it again. The temperature was warm last week, but it's cooling off. And I'm afraid by next Tuesday it will be cold.   Rebekah Wanic ** 14:30 Yes. Are you gonna dress up for Halloween?   Michael Hingson ** 14:33 No. The lady who helps me here doing paperwork and stuff my my assistant, my office worker, if you will, or my sidekick has five children, one of whom doesn't like to go out and Trick or treat. He broke his ankle a couple of years ago so it really hurts to walk a lot. So he wants to stay with me if I'm not going to go out and do anything on Halloween. So I'm going to stay home we're not even going to give out candy we're going to close the door. Watch and turn off the light. Well, I don't know whether we're showing off all the lights, but we're not gonna give out candy and we'll watch a movie because that's what he wants to do.   Rebekah Wanic ** 15:06 Oh, fun, that'll be nice.   Michael Hingson ** 15:10 And he can play with the dog and the cat.   Rebekah Wanic ** 15:12 Awesome. I love Halloween. It's my favorite holiday because my birthday is the day afterwards. So we would always when we were kids, my sister and I, you know, since we're twins, we would have our, obviously a joint party together, but it'll always be a costume party. So I just because I love getting dressed up and stuff. So Halloween is definitely a fun day for me. That's   Michael Hingson ** 15:32 pretty cool. Well, that'll be fun. Sorry, you're going to dress up this year.   Rebekah Wanic ** 15:38 So this I mean, I'm teaching you know, I teach psychology classes. So I have to come up with something that doesn't look too wacky in front of the classroom. So I will wear a wig of some sort, since I will take any excuse to wear a wig and then figure out what I'm going to tell the students I am probably I've probably figured out Monday nights. But this weekend, when I go out with some friends, I'm going to be Sandra Bullock's character from the movie Speed. Okay, see how many people recognize it? Because I know it's getting dated now. But obviously, people my age or older ones still understand it? Well, you   Michael Hingson ** 16:12 mentioned where you could always try to dress up like Hermione Granger from Harry Potter.   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:18 I don't need that my hair looks like her.   Michael Hingson ** 16:24 There you go, Well, that is going well then just walk in with a wand and see if they figured out I actually   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:31 do have a Dumbledore one that I got from Universal Studio. Oh, I've all set.   Michael Hingson ** 16:39 So it's an elder one, does it? Yes. Oh, good.   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:43 Well, as a professor, you know, you have to have the professor one.   Michael Hingson ** 16:46 You certainly do. Well, so you mentioned that you have a neuromuscular condition?   Rebekah Wanic ** 16:55 Yes, I do. And it's one of those fun things where there's no actual answers for me. So I would say probably now about five years ago, I used to work out quite a bit. And I noticed I just couldn't run every time I ran, I felt like I ran a marathon, I'd have to take like hour long naps to try to recover from it. And my fingers and my toes started hurting and tingling. And until you know, when I first went to the doctor, they were I was really scared because they were like, Oh, it sounds like it might be Ms. But I had all the tests and screening for that. And nothing showed up. And then I had a bunch of other tests and nothing showed up. And then because you know, I'm used to doing research, I was researching online. And I thought I have a lot of evidence that suggests this might be small fiber neuropathy. So I had a fight with a bunch of doctors because you know, you're middle aged women, you go into the doctor, they tell you everything stress, oh, it's stress. And I was like, I have a PhD in psychology, I'm fairly certain if this was stressed, I would be able to diagnose that. So I had to fight a quite a bit. I probably saw like eight different doctors before I finally got to a doctor, I said, this is what I think I have, I need you to give me this test. And he didn't want to give me the test because it's kind of invasive. But lo and behold, after I got the test, it showed I had small fiber neuropathy. But that's not a super helpful diagnosis. Because it's sort of like you have a blue crown that's blue. You're just labeling something that you already know exists. Why do I have it? What do I do about it, all of that still unknown. And then when I was in Singapore, I went to the hospital there because I the whole bottom part of my leg was just numb. And so I was having trouble walking because I couldn't feel when my foot was hitting the ground effectively. And so there went through a whole nother round of tests. And he told me I have my atonia which again, is not that helpful, because it's just like your muscles are overactive, they're always tight. And I'm like, I know what I was telling you when I first came in. So it's kind of been at first it was really a struggle of you know, this fear of the unknown is it going to keep getting worse now I think I'm fortunate I've gotten to a place of acceptance, where I just accept this stuff will hurt me all the time. I have to regulate the amount of physical activity I do. So I don't get you know, overly exhausted. And I'm kind of getting myself to the place where I can have a bunch of extra energy so I can go back and interface with the medical community to try to see if there's new answers or a new doctor I could talk to you about what might be able to be done about it now.   19:27 Does lose have any of this? She doesn't she   Rebekah Wanic ** 19:30 doesn't. It's funny because I always say like I'm the twin that got stuck with all two of us because like when we were growing up we went to get contacts I couldn't really get contacts I'd really bad a stigmatism I was allergic to the contact lens. I was allergic to the context solution had really bad asthma. She has asthma but it wasn't to the extent that mine was I was hospitalized for it multiple times. And then when I started getting the this muscle stuff, I told her I was like you know we're twins You better watch jailed for this. And she was like, I think I'll be fine. Like, you're the one that takes all of it.   Michael Hingson ** 20:06 Just you're just the troublesome kid. Hmm, exactly.   Rebekah Wanic ** 20:11 Through no fault of my own, I would say but yeah. So   Michael Hingson ** 20:14 when you were in college, what did you study as an undergrad?   Rebekah Wanic ** 20:17 I studied psychology. And then I also spent a lot of time taking philosophy courses and comparative literature courses. And that my major was psychology. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 20:28 And so you just stuck with that all the way through the PhD world coming out here? Yeah,   Rebekah Wanic ** 20:33 yeah. I mean, to me, it's, it's one of those fascinating topics where the more you learn the I mean, if you're motivated, I don't think everybody does this. But for me, everything I learned, I'm like, how does this relate to my own experience? And how can I use it to try to make my own experience better and more functional. So my focus was on social psychology in particular, because the way that people interact with each other was really fascinating to me, you know, growing up with a twin and seeing some of the ways that it was really helpful for me in terms of overcoming stuff dealing with life, but also some of the ways that it made me a little bit, I think, more timid than I otherwise would have been, because my sister is really dominant. And she really great, but it took it took us kind of separating for me to sort of grow more into my own and develop some of the self confidence that she had more so when we were growing up, but that that interplay between self and situation has always been something that's really been part of my focus of attention.   Michael Hingson ** 21:33 So what does she do since you're in psychology? Oh, my   Rebekah Wanic ** 21:36 sister is awesome. She's done everything. She when we, her undergraduate degree was in anthropology and I think maybe international business. When she finished, she went to Japan for three years to teach English. Then she came back and she lived in New York City. And she got she was teaching in an inner city school. And she got through City College, a teaching credential, a master's in education, too. And then when she finished that, she started working for the UN. And then she got placements in several countries in Africa, working for the UN, eventually came back to the States after getting sick, went to Naval Postgraduate School up in Monterey, California, and got her degree in cybersecurity. And this is a woman who never took a computer science class her entire life, graduated the top student in her class. And so now she went back to New York City, and she's working in a big financial institution right now. Wow. Yeah, she my sister is like one of those people who she is. She's one of the smartest people I know, hands down.   Michael Hingson ** 22:43 Well, that's a neat story. She's certainly gotten around and done lots of stuff. And the two of you sound like you complement each other very well.   22:51 I hope so. I   Michael Hingson ** 22:52 hope so. So, you went to Singapore, which certainly had to be extremely fascinating, especially when you intellectually look back on it, because it happened during COVID. You mentioned something earlier? Well, when we were chatting, and then you sent me some information about it that you had a big challenge getting over to Singapore in the first place. Yes.   Rebekah Wanic ** 23:14 Okay. So first of all, I got I went over there in January 2020, for my interview, and then I found out that I got the job, the beginning slash middle of March. So I found that I got the job right before everything kind of hit the fan in terms of, you know, lock downs and stuff. And so I had sent my acceptance for the position was and said, I was going to go over there in July of 2020. The day after I sent them my acceptance, I got a message from them that was like, yeah, there's no way you're coming over here in July. No one's coming in every everything shut down. We don't know exactly when you're going to be able to come. So then I had to like, you know, re assess. Because, you know, I had started making plans, like giving up my job here in the States moving all that stuff. So I had to like reevaluate, got my job back to teach classes in the fall semester, 2020 here in the US, but I was basically on standby. Because Singapore said, you know, we'll let you know when you can come we'll give you maybe like a two week notice in terms of the window of time that you can arrive. And then at the time they approved you to enter the country during a three day window to 72 hours to get there. Wow, you had to have a COVID test that was done within that 72 hour window. So I was getting ready to go and then because it was COVID the flight I normally would have taken which was from San Diego to San Francisco, San Francisco over to Singapore. That wasn't operational. So I had to fly San Diego to Seattle, Seattle to Narita in Japan, and then Rita to Singapore. So when I checked in to the airport in San Diego I had my paperwork my you know, if the letter from the government saying I can enter see pour my COVID tests, all this stuff checked off. When I get to the transfer window up in Seattle, they call me up to the counter or my passport check COVID test, check paperwork, check, check me off, I'm good to go all the way to Singapore, I get to Japan, Japan wants to look at my paperwork and says my paperwork is not correct. Because I didn't have my passport number on top of the COVID test. And they would not let me through. So So basically, I'm in Japan, and you know, I'm trying not to, like freak out, but I'm freaking out. But you know, I was like, Rebecca, you're an international airport, you can't create an incident you're gonna live in prison, right? So I had to kind of, you know, like, stifle things. And then basically, they they walked me from this, this counter to a plane to go back to the United States. And I said, I can't go back to San Diego, I have no apartment. I have no staff. I have no job. I have no family. Can you at least send me to New York City, because my sister at the time was living in New York City. So they put me on this plane to go back to New York City. And I've wasted about a day's worth of travel through all this iteration. It's about 1214 hours for me to get from Japan to New York City. So the first couple of hours, I'm on the plane, and I'm the only person on this plane. I was like, Rebecca, this is it, your life is over. Just get off the plane, don't even tell your sister landing in New York go be you know, like a homeless person, whatever, like, you know, like your life is over. But then of course, you know, after I let myself wallow for a few minutes, I was like, No, like rally, okay, you're going to New York, if there's any place that you need to be to get to Singapore in time, it's New York, it's going to have the most options in terms of flights. But my COVID test at this point would have expired. So I had to figure out to how to get a COVID test within less than four hours. Because I figured out there was one flight that I could take from New York, that would get me to Singapore within the window of time that I needed to get in during the 72 hour approval time. One flight. And so in order for me to get there, I needed to leave my sister's house at a certain time. So I had four hours from when I landed in a at JFK to get to the airport in Newark in order to get out to fly to get to Singapore in time. So I googled, there was a place in New York that would do this, because New York is the place where you can get everything for money. So six hours later, $5,000 later, I was on a plane to Singapore, and I made it within the window of time, but it was basically about 72 hours worth of traveling. So when I got to Singapore, they had a COVID a COVID quarantine so I had to stay in a hotel for two weeks. They basically met you at baggage claim, took your stuff and you put you on a bus and sent you to a hotel. So I was so drained at this point and stressed that the first three days, I didn't care that I was stuck in a hotel room, I just slept and recuperated and stuff. And then I always think you know, it's like, you can be in the midst of stuff that's really not going well for you. But that there's there's gems of hope. So I was so lucky because the hotel that I got put up in for my quarantine was the Swiss hotel, really nice hotel, and I was on like the 36th floor, my room had a balcony overlooking the bay. So I had fresh air I had a great view. So overall, my quarantine experience was not nearly as bad as it could have been. But I think the contrast of the horror of it probably made it really good.   28:30 And it was warm. And   Rebekah Wanic ** 28:31 it was warm. Yes.   Michael Hingson ** 28:33 I, I understand a lot of those sentiments, my inlaws and Karen and I and two other people, two other relatives, went to Spain in 1992. And Karen and I had been working at the company we worked for putting in long hours and like even the night before we left, we work till 10 o'clock just to get everything done. And literally when we got to Spain, we were in Tenerife for the first week, okay. And mostly, we'd go to sleep, and we slept till three in the afternoon, both of us Wow. And then we would get up and we would be with people. And we did that for most of the first week until we finally caught up on sleep. Yeah, and we didn't mind a bit. We enjoyed it. It was great. It was amazing. But then we got up and we had a late breakfast, which was usually a burger or something else because it was three in the afternoon. It was fun, but we really enjoyed going over but we didn't have the kind of airline challenges that you did. I had a little bit because they insisted that being blind I had to sit in a specific place in the airport until the next flight, even though I was with a family all of whom could see and they didn't even restrict Karen Being in a wheelchair her whole life. But they, they insisted that I had to be somewhere and they separated me from everyone, which did not make me very happy at all. Needless to say, it was crazy. It was ridiculous to do. But you know, so what's the lesson you learn from all the traveling and all the challenges that you had going to Singapore? And all that happened? What do you learn from that? What do you take away?   Rebekah Wanic ** 30:23 So the first thing that I learned was to, like, double up on everything, because I think if I had had like, an extra piece of paper with my COVID test, I would have just written my, my password number on it and been like, oh, wait a minute, do you think it was this piece of paper that you wanted me to have? But I think the other thing, I mean, honestly, this is what I always tell people about challenges. And like, I am one of those people who like if stuffs gonna go wrong, it's gonna go horribly wrong. But the older I get, the more I appreciate it. Because now, you know, I can I can laugh at it doesn't mean it doesn't bother you when it's happening. But I get over stuff so much more quickly. I'm just kind of like, alright, you know, come at me life right here. Here's a new challenge that you've thrown my way. And let's see how I'm gonna go and get over it. So it just teaches you that you're way more resilient than you oftentimes give yourself credit for. And you don't know your resilience unless you're presented with the challenge that you have to overcome. So I think that's that's the biggest takeaway for me and my sister a lot of times, what has she, you know, big international traveler, and I think I had told her before I was moving to Singapore, like, I'm a little bit nervous. And she's like, you just figure it out. Because you have to, you know, and I think that the more that you go through those kinds of experiences, the more that you realize that that is true, right, you have to rise to the challenge. So you figure out a way to do it, and you just move on.   Michael Hingson ** 31:44 Were you afraid at all, when the whole stuff was happening with Singapore.   Rebekah Wanic ** 31:50 I was like, for that short period of time, when when I got on that plane to leave Japan to go to New York, I was afraid that everything that I had planned for was completely crashing to the ground. But then I thought to myself, even if it is, you have two options. Option one is you let it happen, right, you let it crumble, but option two is you fight against it, you fight for what you want. And so that's what gave me you know, the strength to like rally and investigate. And of course, I mean, you know, when I talk about how amazing my sister is, because she's she's always there when you need her. She's like one of those great people to have and, and I knew that if I asked her for help, she was going to be able to help me. And you know, she didn't just help him with the logistical things. But like, you know, she's just like a good person to have in your corner. So the other thing is like, Don't ever be afraid to use your network and keep the people in your life who are going to be the ones that are there for you. You know, a lot of times we encounter people who are takers, not not givers, and you obviously, you want to be a giver yourself. But keep keeping good relationships with the people who are the ones that our stand up, and we'll be there to help you is really important than then be appreciative to them. You know, I tell my sister all the time, how awesome she is. And I think that she really knows that I'm so appreciative of everything she's done to help me in my life.   Michael Hingson ** 33:13 But that goes both ways, though.   Rebekah Wanic ** 33:16 I hope so. I mean, I feel you know, how you You never feel like you're good enough to give somebody who's awesome held, like, I hope that I helped my sister, but I, I feel like the nature of the relationship. And that one, I think, unfortunately, I'm a little bit more of a taker than a giver. But I hope that you know, I can give her what she needs when she needs it. Well, something   Michael Hingson ** 33:35 must be going right, because the two of you get along very well. Where is she these days? Where does she live now in New York. She   Rebekah Wanic ** 33:41 was living in Long Island City for a long time, and that she just just bought a house in New Jersey. So it's super, super exciting. So her and her husband, it's our first home. So that's really, really exciting. She's like, we've got space. We're not you know, living in our cramped New York, one bedroom apartment on top of each other anymore. So it's super, super exciting.   Michael Hingson ** 34:01 We're in New Jersey   Rebekah Wanic ** 34:03 in Bernardsville. I think that it is yeah. We   Michael Hingson ** 34:08 lived in Westfield for six years. And we built our home so that it was wheelchair accessible. And that was a lot of fun. And we had an elevator and I know for a week after September 11. I use the elevator a whole lot more than Karen did. We had to have a two storey home because that was the only kind of home that would allow you to build there was no room for ranch homes. So we had to have an elevator. And I was so stiff and sore for the week after September 11. And I use that elevator all the time. Wow. I couldn't walk up or down the stairs at all it was it was pretty bad. But you know it happens. But it's it's interesting to to hear what you're saying though, because we we all have the ability to help each other. And one of the things that strikes me is we all want to be independent. We all think that we want to do stuff ourselves. It's just me. I'm independent. I don't don't need any help. But yet, we want to stay connected, or we mostly want to stay connected except for people who don't understand the wisdom of it. How do you? How do you do both be independent and stay connected?   Rebekah Wanic ** 35:12 Yeah, that's a great question. I think I think about that a lot, right? Because, you know, I live, none of my family lives in San Diego, I decided, you know, I just I need to go out and be on my own. But what I, what I sometimes have to do, to be honest with you, is put little reminders in my phone, like if I, something's happening with someone in my family, like they have a job interview or an important doctor's appointment, as soon as I hear about it, I put it in my phone, so that I can make a note to like, call them or text them to follow up on it. And it's as a way of showing that, like, I'm keeping them in what's going on with them as a priority in their mind. But I think it helps, at least for me with balancing sort of, you know, the connection and independence is, a lot of times when we seek connection, it's just because we need something. And so I try really hard to make sure that when I'm reaching out to people, it's not because I need something, it's when I'm coming at it from a position of strength so that you don't feel like you're always you know, taking, taking taking that you can feel like you're being a giver, you want to share some things that are fun, share some good news with people. But I think the other thing that I always keep in mind is, every time you ask for help, you're taking some limited amount of resources from someone else. So it doesn't mean that you should ever feel bad asking for help, or that you shouldn't ask for help. But by recognizing that when you do, it puts you in a mindset to make sure that you're not going to take more than what you need. And that you're going to position yourself to be oriented towards figuring out how to give something back. And I'm not saying this as it's like a tit for tat, it's just being cognizant of that really helps you to sort of manage recognizing, okay, this is something that I can do on my own, I don't need to ask for assistance on this. So that you can free yourself up to take advantage of assistance when you need it the most, when it's going to be the most beneficial for you.   Michael Hingson ** 37:10 At the same time be prepared to offer when the opportunities arise. I. So I mentioned my wife passed away last November, we had been married 40 years, and her caregivers, Josie and Dolores and Janette, who was actually our in is our housekeeping lady who comes in keeps us honest, by keeping the house clean once a week and I work on it the rest of the time. I even bought a Roomba lately. It works pretty well, you know, the cat's not impressed with it. We haven't been able to get the cat to watch the TV commercials where another cat writes a Roomba. But one of the things that that almost immediately happened is that Josie said, you know, let me help you in doing things. And I was reluctant because I didn't want her to feel obligated. But I realized pretty quickly, she wanted to help me get back to continuing to be able to move on. So Josie now works for me. She's here for five days, four or five hours a day. And we do paperwork, and she helps looking for speaking opportunities and all the other things that that I do. Yeah. And Dolores is doing a bunch of other stuff. So we don't see each other quite as often. And Jeanette comes once a week. And one of the things that she said early on after Karen passed was, I'm going to come over on Tuesday nights and bring you dinner. Well, we've modified that slightly. So sometimes she brings in her and sometimes I take her out for dinner because I think that it's good to get out. And frankly, it's good for me to get out a little bit. She's cleaning houses all week. So she's out and then she doesn't have to cook all the time. But I do believe that it's symbiotic is probably the wrong word. But it is a mutually beneficial kind of a relationship with both of them. And actually all three, and it should be that way. It's we do need to connect, and we do need to help each other. So I do like to think that I help some too. Yeah, absolutely.   Rebekah Wanic ** 39:17 You're reminding me of, um, I write a blog about, you know, self improvement, self motivation. I call it self optimization. But I was thinking about, you know, I'm a professor and I know just from conversations with students that a lot of times students, look, look up to me, but when I start doubting myself, and I wrote this article about it, where it's like you have to give yourself credit for being the helper to other people, but also for being in a position to let other people help you because in doing that you're kind of empowering them to to get a lot of the gratification that comes from being connected. And it sounds like these people are we be wonderful individuals. So it sounds it's great that you're able to kind of keep them in your life. And it sounds exactly like you're saying that you're both benefiting from the nature of the relationship, which is huge. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 40:10 it is it helps a lot. One of the things that I did, we we had a wheelchair accessible van, which we sold back to the company that sold it to us so that they could get it to someone else who could use it once Karen passed, because I didn't need it. But I also didn't want to impose on Josie and Jeanette and Dolores to use their car when I needed to go somewhere. So we did, I bought me another car. And it's smaller than the van. So it does fit in the garage a lot better. And now I can walk all the way around it and things like that, because the minivan took up most of the garage. But again, I felt that that was something that was important to do so that I'm not using up their car. And that works out pretty well. Yeah.   Rebekah Wanic ** 40:55 Do you like your new car? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 40:59 it was a little hard to find one. Because, well, the reason it was hard was because being a passenger, I want to be able to do what other passengers could do, we had looked at a new 2023 Hyundai Tucson, the problem is the radio was all touchscreen. And for that reason alone went on not doing that. And so we ended up with a 2021 Pre Owned Tucson, but the radio has buttons and I can do with most of it. And all the other parts about the car are much more physical buttons so I can do the things that I need to do, rather than relying on a touchscreen that I'm never going to be able to to navigate and negotiate. All   Rebekah Wanic ** 41:43 right. And most of those touchscreens too, even if they have like an audio interface, you have to touch it to activate the audio interface. Right. So they're not particularly friendly to people that are visually impaired, correct? Well,   Michael Hingson ** 41:57 they're not, they're not at all friendly to people who are blind and, or low vision. And you know, and it seems to me, drivers would probably disagree, but I don't think they're friendly for drivers, you still have to take your eyes off the road to see where to touch on the screen. And there ought to be more of a code word that you can just say like with an echo device or whatever, to activate it rather than using the touchscreen. But even then, it isn't just that it is also that the audio interface doesn't give you the same level of control that you get with a touchscreen. Now, there in reality are ways to have a touchscreen that I could use. iPhones and Android phones on smartphones, which are all touchscreens, do have technology that has been created to allow me to use it. So instead of like clicking a button, just tapping a button and it executes it, when it's in the mode that I have to use. And I suppose to what you have to use, I double tap and that activates it. So they could put all that smarts in that technology and the touchscreens on cars, which would then make it usable for me, but they don't. So it's very unfortunate that they they still continue to exclude a lot, which is very unfortunate, then really continues to say we just don't think that you're as valuable as we are.   Rebekah Wanic ** 43:31 Yeah, I think I had heard you talking about the the touchscreen thing on cars. And I it's it's one of those things I think a lot of people wouldn't wouldn't even come to their mind. Because when when we have the privilege of being sighted for example, then we don't we don't recognize, you know, all of the things that may potentially be an issue. But when it's brought up and like you're saying there's some relatively simple fixes that can be made, but people aren't doing it, it does definitely send a certain kind of message. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 43:58 what it gets back down to is that diversity doesn't tend to be very inclusive, we don't deal with disabilities. And as I've said, and I don't know whether you've heard any of the podcasts where I've said it is I believe everyone has a disability and the disability for most of you is your light dependent. You have to have light in order to function. And as soon as there's a power failure, or something like that you're in a world of hurt unless you can grab a flashlight or a smartphone and activate it and turn the flashlight on. And the fact of the matter is, disability doesn't mean a lack of ability. Disability should really be recognized as a characteristic that manifests itself differently, but still manifests itself in every single person in the world.   Rebekah Wanic ** 44:37 And yes, you're talking Michael, you're reminding me I think the movie is called wait until dark with Audrey Hepburn Audrey Hepburn, right. You know what I'm talking about me? You were just reminding me of that where she's like it shows to me that was really impactful because it showed you know, in a very creative way like yeah, there. We all have different skill sets basically as a function of what we've been born with and given?   Michael Hingson ** 45:00 Well, even though today in our world, we still keep hearing people talk about people who are visually impaired, which is a disgusting, horrible way to describe us.   Rebekah Wanic ** 45:13 I said that I'm sorry, no, no, but no, no, but it   Michael Hingson ** 45:16 comes up all the time, I was just reading another book where it came up. And the reason it is, is because visually, we're not different simply because we're blind, and impaired equates us to eyesight. So blind and low vision within something that deaf people realized a long time ago, that you don't say deaf or hearing impaired is deaf or hard of hearing. And that's, that hasn't progressed that way in the in the blindness world. And I think, in large part because blind people haven't collectively created the same level of community that deaf people have. And so that level of understanding hasn't gotten to blind people to the point where they're willing to take that stand and push back a lot more about the concept of visually impaired. Interesting. Yeah, I   Rebekah Wanic ** 46:07 think there's a difference in the cultivation of community. Do you ever hypothesis on it?   Michael Hingson ** 46:12 Deaf people have worked very hard to, to rally around each other. They know they need to do that they have been very standardized on mostly on signing and some on lip lip reading and so on. But they've just developed a stronger sense of community, overall their death, they're a culture. And you don't see that same level in the blindness world. Yeah,   Rebekah Wanic ** 46:39 that's, it's interesting. So one of the things I would love to hear your opinion on this, one of the things that we sometimes talk about in psychology classes is that people oftentimes report that one of the things that you lose from with the experience of deafness is social connection. Yeah. And that tends to be sort of lost less for people that are blind, because we can still Converse, which is one of the primary sources of social connections. I'm just wondering if maybe the deaf community cultivates community more, because that's something that's so noticeably lost without the extra effort,   Michael Hingson ** 47:18 I think it's an interesting concept, and it could very well be the case. But for whatever reason they've done it. And I, I've been around a number of deaf people, and I've actually talked to them about this discussion of hearing impaired or hard of hearing. And they're very adamant that hard of hearing is much more appropriate than because they don't want to be compared to a person who can hear in terms of how much you can hear or you're impaired in terms of hearing. And it's, it makes a lot of sense. words do matter. And we need to recognize that a lot more than we do.   Rebekah Wanic ** 47:51 Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I apologize. Well, no, don't   Michael Hingson ** 47:54 it's fine. You know, I understand. But But yeah, that's something to grow on. So when we need to get more people to understand it. Tell me about making choices. So since we're talking about about this, and we're making a choice to, to do that, and I appreciate it. But you know, in our world today, so many people blame people for so much stuff, it seems to me and they'll make a choice, and then they blame somebody else when it doesn't go the way they saw it. How do we deal with that? Yeah,   Rebekah Wanic ** 48:25 I think that's a great thing to kind of talk about. So I am a firm believer, and I talk about this with my clients a lot that if you make a choice, even if the outcome is not what you wanted, you own that choice, because that's the most empowering way for you to move forward. blaming other people puts you in a position where you're outsourcing control. If I say I didn't get what I wanted, because the world is against me, this person doesn't like me, whatever external reason, then there's really not much that you can do about it. But if you recognize that, first of all, you're not always going to get what you want. Sometimes the choices that we make don't lead to the outcomes that we desire, recognizing that is the first important step. But then above and beyond that, if you if you own the consequences of your actions, you're much more motivated to change so that you don't get the same consequences the next time around. If we don't take ownership of the consequences of our choices, then we're not putting ourselves in a position to learn right, basic psychology tells us that the consequence will alter the action. If the consequence is not something that you desire to have happen again, then you're less likely to engage in that same behavior. But when we remove the consequences when we tell people that they're not responsible for the outcomes of the choices that they make, we're actually hampering them in their ability to make adjustments that will help them move forward in a more positive direction to get more of the things that they want.   Michael Hingson ** 49:51 We also focus so much on trying to control everything in our world and everything around us when in reality, we don't have control over everything. We don't learn to focus on things that we do have control over. We worry about everything else. It drives people crazy, I'm sure.   Rebekah Wanic ** 50:06 Yeah, that is absolutely true. So a lot of what we can work on just in terms of helping ourselves to be more functional, less worrying, you know, less angry all the time when things don't work out is to recognize the sphere of control that you have. And I've written about this, too, that this idea of circle of control is not unique to me, other people have originated like Dale Carnegie talks about your social control. But realistically, what you want to do is thinking about within every domain, what are the things that I can control? And what are the things that I can't, and you have to work to control the things you can to get more of what you value. And at minimum, what you can control is, where you are, and how you emotionally respond. So it's not the case that people make you feel happy or sad, or whatever events can have a tendency to push you in one direction or another. But you ultimately have control over how you're choosing to respond. This is why I think mindset is so important. And I work with clients to work on mindset adjustments, because your mindset is key to controlling your emotional reaction. When I have something negative happened to me, I'm perfectly within my right to feel bad about it. But if I can adjust my mindset, so I can see what I have control over. And I'm a big fan of humor, I always try to see what's funny in a situation. Because the minute you can laugh at it, you take a step back, you're less, you're less directly connected, and it puts you in a new position to see all of the actions that you can take to help yourself move forward in a more positive direction.   Michael Hingson ** 51:42 I absolutely agree. And I think it's it's very important that we understand that, you know, it's all about making choices, we can choose to deal with things or not, we had no control over I don't think the World Trade Center incident happening. I'm not convinced we would have figured it out, even if all the government agencies really did talk to each other, which they certainly seem to not know how to do. But the bottom line is that it happened. And that is something that we certainly didn't have control over. I didn't have control over it happening. But I do have control over how I deal with it. And I think that's the important part about it.   Rebekah Wanic ** 52:20 Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you. I mean, even you know, when I mentioned earlier, I said I'm one of those people that if things are gonna go wrong, they're gonna go really wrong. But now it's like, when I say it, I'm not saying it because I am in a woe is me mindset, or I feel like, you know, the world is treating me poorly. It also is something I always tell people, I'm like, you know, I have some really great stories because of the stuff that I've gone through. And because I like to find the humor in them, like when I retell the story, I will, like accentuate the parts of it that are humorous. And that helps me get get over it as well. So the the thing that you have maximum control over is how you respond to every situation. And the thing that makes you powerful is when you own the outcome of the choices you made. And you own your reactions in situations where you don't have a lot of control.   Michael Hingson ** 53:08 When things happen where I know, in my case, something occurred and it wasn't funny at the time. But I always work to go back and think about it and like you I love to find humor in it and and recognize what a dingdong, I got lost or this happened that happened? And what do I learn from it? And that's the real adventure. What do I learn from and how do I move forward?   Rebekah Wanic ** 53:31 Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I agree with you, I think in the moment to tell to tell everybody, when bad things are happening, like find, find the humor in it, that's not appropriate. It takes a little bit of time and distance. But the best way to help to make sure that things don't linger and continue to be problems for you, like you're saying is to reflect on it. Think about the lesson and think about what's funny about it moving forward for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 53:55 Yeah, I think, you know, it all gets back to preparation. And I know, today that I function well in the time of the World Trade Center, because I prepared I learned what to do. And although I didn't really think about it, or if I understood it, I didn't know how to verbalize it at the time. But I've since learned, I developed a mindset that said, Something's happening. You can deal with it because you know what to do. And yeah, the building could have collapsed all around us. And in that case, wouldn't have to worry about it actually. But never nevertheless. I knew what to do. And that mindset that preparation created that mindset and that mindset and learning to control fear helped a lot.   Rebekah Wanic ** 54:40 Yeah, absolutely. I was, you know, reading more about you sharing about the story. And I think that that's so true. And like you were just saying it's like you control what you can you didn't have control over what ultimately was going to happen to the building or when but given that you can control something you have a choice again, you have a choice to choose to do something or to choose To do nothing, and most of the time, the choice to choose to do something is going to help you get closer to what you want. But we don't ultimately have control over how things are going to turn out. But I always think, at the end of the day, do I want to look back and say that I gave up on my opportunities? Or do I want to look back and say, I tried as hard as I could. And some things just didn't work out. For me. That's the option I would rather sit with at the end of the day. And   Michael Hingson ** 55:23 I don't know intellectually, whether my parents understood it, but they worked really hard to allow me to explore and do things. And as a result, as I say, they took risks. And they allowed me to, by societal standards, take risks, that would not be risk for anybody who could see, but they, they let me learn things. And they, they allowed me to explore. And I find it really interesting. I know any number of blind people, but any number of parents today that just shelter their kids, and they don't let them really explore, they don't learn how to make choices. And they'll never if they don't get that opportunity, learn how to create a mindset that allows them to be more unstoppable and less fearful.   Rebekah Wanic ** 56:07 Yeah, Michael, that's absolutely correct. I mean, we're seeing the consequences of this culture of safety is a manifesting itself in all of this teen anxiety. Because if if parents, of course, parents want to protect their kids, but there has to be a balance of letting them go out and do things, make choices, not have parents around all the time to tell them what they should and should not be doing. That's how you you learn. That's how you develop, that's how you grow your resilience. Also, if you're not making choices, you don't have consequences of those choices, because you didn't make them you can't learn and you can't grow from that. So of course, there needs to be a balance, but we're seeing lots of negative consequences from the inability to allow children to take risks. And part of that is just not letting kids play by themselves. I hear so many stories from my friends who are parents that like, when I was a kid, if there was a birthday party, your parent was like so weak, they would drop you off at the party and run away and do stuff on their own. Now, parents hang out collectively at the birthday party where the kids are, that is insane. To me, it's like give them some space to just be on their own and do what they need to do. I   Michael Hingson ** 57:17 understand that we live in a society where there are a number of crazy people who take advantage of kids and so on. So I'm all in favor of having some way to observe. And I don't know necessarily what that is, but I can appreciate the concern. But you've got to let kids play you got to let kids explore you got to let kids be kids. That doesn't mean and I'm sure with me, for example, my parents probably monitored a lot of what I did, from a distance. Yeah, exactly.   Rebekah Wanic ** 57:49 But I mean, in my birthday party scenario, there are adults there, there are people to monitor, you, as the parent don't need to be the one monitoring all the time, you know, like, you wouldn't just send, you know, a group of eight year olds to a house by themselves. But if there's a responsible adult there, you could safely assume that they're probably going to be okay. You know, I mean, there's all that really startling data about like, kids are not having sex, kids are not driving, kids are not dating. They're not doing any of the normal things that kids are supposed to be doing as they move into adulthood, in large part because of all of this pressure of safety as them that they've grown up in so that they're not being put in a position to sort of move effectively, Trent and take that transition from childhood to adulthood in any kind of effective way.   Michael Hingson ** 58:33 Recently, I read a New York Tim

Bump in the road? Indeed. Meet Pat Wetzel. Pat is a graduate from the University of Pennsylvania and Wharton Business School. She began her professional life working in the finance industry in New York City. We talk about some of that in this episode of Unstoppable Mindset and we even get Pat's take on today's economy.   Pat's life changed dramatically when she was diagnosed with a serious neurological disease myasthenia gravis. She went through a divorce and eventually reassessed her entire life. Talk about being unstoppable, to sum it up, Pat decided to continue living. She is one of the relatively few who was diagnosed but fully survived and moved on from her disease.   Along the way she discovered soaring-flying high in motorless airplanes. Soaring she began to do not only in airplanes, but with the rest of her life.   I think you will be totally inspired by Pat's story. Four years ago she began the Bump In The Road podcast and just this year she published her first book called, you guessed it, Bump In The Road. Check out Pat Wetzel's story on our episode this time and I hope you will pick up her book as well as listening to her podcast, after you listen to this one of course.     About the Guest:   Pat Wetzel, a graduate from the University of Pennsylvania and Wharton Business School, embarked on her adult journey in the bustling city of New York. Little did she know that her path would take a dramatic turn, when she was diagnosed with a serious neurological disease myasthenia gravis.  A divorce and the resulting chaos forced her to reimagine her life. A chance encounter with the sport of soaring-flying high tech motorless airplanes cross country-became the portal to unexpected adventure, leading her to soar to new heights, both metaphorically and literally. Her adventures in the air became the back drop for conquering challenges, finding courage and connecting with a greater natural world. Through her experiences, Pat Wetzel has emerged not only as an individual who is wise, but as a podcaster and author with a profound message to share. In "Bump In the Road: 15 Stories of Courage, Hope, and Resilience," she channels her unique perspective, weaving together tales of human strength and triumph. The stories, based on her weekly podcast Bump In The Road, inspire others to navigate life's bumps with hope and to find courage in the face of uncertainty. In this book, Pat's story and the story of her 15 guests is a testament to the unwavering power of the human spirit and a reminder that even amidst the bumps in the road, our potential for growth knows no bounds. ** ** Ways to connect with Pat:   Website: BumpInTheRoad.us Instagram: Instagram.com/BumpInTheRoad.us Twitter: Twitter.com/CancerRoadTrip Facebook: Facebook.com/BumpInTheRD Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patwetzel/     About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, Howdy, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Michael Hinkson. I really am glad that you're here with us today. And today, we're going to chat with Pat Wetzel. Pat is an interesting person by any standard. She is a graduate of University of Pennsylvania and the Wharton School of Business, I'm jealous, but that's okay. She then started out working in New York. And we'll have to have a discussion about best places to buy bagels in New York. But she had a diagnosis that changed her whole life and her whole career. I'm going to leave it to her to talk more about that. And everything that follows. She is also a podcaster. She has a podcast called a bump in the road. And we'll I'm sure talk about that in the course of the day. And she's an author of a book. And guess what the book is entitled bump in the road. Anyway, Pat, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thank you. Nice to be here. So tell me a little bit about the early Pat growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Pat Wetzel ** 02:28 Oh, early Pat. Let's see, I grew up in northern New Jersey in a town called Upper Saddle River. And it was just beautiful countryside as a kid, or as a teenager, of course, you hated it, because the only thing to do was play sports and go to school. But actually, it was really a very idyllic, my family settled deal is spent a lot of time in Europe, which gave me a rather different perspective on the world. From the time I was very young. I knew it was a big world, there were different people and cultures. And I really loved that. And I think that influence the remainder of my life in that I enjoy going into different places. And I think it also gave me a tolerance not just for differences in people and culture, but for a little bit of adventure and risk. Went to school started off in the bond market in New York back in the 80s, which was a very cool time to be in the bond market. But I received a diagnosis of myasthenia gravis, which is a very rare neurologic disease. And it causes weakness in voluntary muscles, which includes your eyes, your mouth, your tongue, the ability to breathe or walk. So it was pretty devastating. It really took my life in a direction I did not anticipate. Not a lot of upside there. But one of the good things that did come out of it was that it gave me a time to pause and get out of the rat race craze, super competitive business world. And I think I look at who I was, which really ended up more from my perspective, was kind of this from as opposed to the eat what you kill side of the spectrum, which is a little bit more market oriented.   Michael Hingson ** 04:14 So well tell me more about that. So what did you do?   Pat Wetzel ** 04:20 Really, it was survival, quite honestly. I was up in New Haven, in New Haven area. I had a thymectomy at Yale, which is where they remove your thymus, they think they're not even sure that it somehow influences the course of your disease. And indeed, there are some precancerous lesions there. So it was a it was a good move the whole way around. Initially, you're on all these drugs and you're having to titrate these drugs. And it's a matter of at first just not knowing if you're going to live about a third of the people die about a third of the people remain seriously disabled, and about a third go on in life and I was luckily in the latter group. Ah,So okay, we'll tired and things, but it's nothing major, and I'm no longer on any medication. But it um, it is quite life changing, to say the least. Yeah, I would, I would think that it would be   Michael Hingson ** 05:14 pulling, removing your thymus and just all of the various things that go along with that it has to be not a very fun thing, do you still go get checkups on any kind of regular basis?   Pat Wetzel ** 05:26 No, interestingly, when I started flying, fast forward a decade or so, when I started flying,I was having full time trading my drugs, and one of the problems is having too much in your system gives you the same symptoms as having too little. So you never know you're ahead or behind. So I decided to start weaning myself off my drugs. I did this without medical supervision, I do not recommend anybody do it, no doctor would have taken the risk. But I decided to do it. And indeed, it worked. I might get a little tired or whatnot, I can manage that. And that was really the end of my interface with the medical establishment for that period of my life. Wow. Well, so. So let's go back. So you started in the bond market in the 1980s. Of course, we had the recession in the 1980s, and all the economic things. So typically, as interest rates, well, so as interest rates go up, does that mean that usually bonds go down or they go up, they go down in terms of value, the thing that was really interesting in the corporate market was that all the previous parameters for risk assessment were no longer viable, because the interest rate environment had changed so drastically. So there were new models being created, the rating rating agencies were just so far behind the curve, they weren't very useful in terms of assessing any risk. And it was a very interesting time in that.If you remember, Michael Milken, he really changed the face of corporate finance, in that he made capital accessible to mid tier companies, they never had access to this type of capital before. So it was a really interesting time period financially, but for the aberrations of these incredibly high interest rates, and for the fact that the access to capital was dramatically changing, for much of corporate America. So fast forward, out of curiosity, just to go off of the, the timeline to today. For the past few years, economists have been talking about how we're going to go through this incredibly high level of inflation and, and it's gonna it's gonna cause unemployment as we raise the interest rates to go up. And the reality is that and I was reading an article by Paul Krugman, this morning from the New York Times, a lot of what people predicted just didn't happen at all. What do you think about all that? I think the economy is proven to be a little more resilient than we thought. But I also think government numbers are pretty useless. Years ago, when the numbers made no sense to me, I found a website called Shadow stats.com, which is by math economist. His numbers made sense. The government has revamped their numbers. So many times there's no continuity in terms of trying to ascertain what's actually going on. I think you are starting to see more layoffs. I think that our economy personally is fairly brittle and fragile. i What's going to be the event that said something's off. But if you look at say, banking, everybody's underwater in their bond portfolio, commercial real estate market is plummeted. There was recently a building in San Francisco that I think assessed for 40 or 50% of its value just five years ago. And it's happening in numerous urban areas. The economy is really slow to react to these large changes. It's been slower than I thought it would be. Look at the housing market, for example, interest rates are at 8%. They weren't 3% A few years ago, that's a 5%. That's a 5% change. Typically, the rule of thumb is you see about a 1% 10% change in valuation for every 1% move in interest rates. Well, that would argue for close to a 50% change in market, the market value of real estate assets, but you're not seeing that in a lot of places. I think that we need to be a little patient. I think there are a few things impacting it. And it varies by locale, of course, the media usually oversimplifies so many things and I think they also tend to miss characterize a lot of things. So we were hearing about all this business of inflation. And people keep being told by a lot of politicians that inflation is really high and all that and the prices are really high. Krugman made an interesting observation this morning and which was just because inflation is going down, up there.   Michael Hingson ** 10:00 It's not something that directly and certainly immediately controls prices. So inflation may be going down, but we are paying more. And just because inflation drops, that doesn't mean that suddenly we're going to pay less for things.   Pat Wetzel ** 10:14 Well, I would argue that that, first of all, go back to the argument that the government numbers for mission are pretty useless. For example, I went into Trader Joe's the other day, and a chicken breast, that rather turkey breast that I bought a year ago ran about $25. It's $50. Now.And I think that the average person going out and having to pay for just the things that we need to I think we would all argue that interest rates have probably been more in the 15% up range. Rather, if price inflation has been 18 Plus, if not more in certain categories. Yeah. And I would also submit that again,   Michael Hingson ** 10:56 the numbers are are all over the place. And that's I'm agreeing with you, I think that we're not really seeing   Pat Wetzel ** 11:02 something yet, that's really consistent that that really tells us what is going on. But I also think that too many people are politicizing it, rather than trying to come up with a real solution. Nobody wants to do that. They want to just blame everyone else for it. Yeah, I agree with that. And you know, it always comes down in my mind, you said, you have to live within your means. It's okay to borrow with it. But you can't get over your head and debt. There's no free lunch here. I think even the Fed is now coming out and saying that the spending out of Washington is absolutely out of control. That's by the heart. It's not political. It's just reality. And I think that I think we need to return to a saner way of living in personally, I think this model of perpetual growth may not be sustainable, you can't grow forever. Right.   Michael Hingson ** 11:59 Not without something else changing in the process, we had a fair amount of credit card debt over a number of years. And my wife, once we moved down here really decided we need to, to not be so much in credit card debt, and literally over about a four or five year period. And she handled all the bills every day was in QuickBooks and quicken and everything else and looking at everything. But you know what, we now don't owe anything on credit cards, except for whatever is due in a given month. And she passed away this past November. And when I decided to do to make sure we don't get in trouble like that, again, was to set every credit card that we have that we use, and we're not even I'm not even using all the ones that we have available. But what I have done is to set them for automatic payment to pay off the entire balance every month. So it really forces me too. And I don't mind doing it at all stay within means and the main thing we do with credit cards, other than going to Costco and buying food every so often is it's all about business. So it's easy, because we have mechanisms to get reimbursed for a lot of the stuff I do for business. So we get to pay everything back and I agree with you, we need to live within our means. For a while we had some challenges and weren't able to do that. That's been a number of years. And so now we will I just make sure that we don't accrue any credit card debt because it's got to be paid off every month.   Pat Wetzel ** 13:38 And with you there isn't any material thing I have to have. I just don't need it.   Michael Hingson ** 13:45 If there's something I need to have that I've got to save for it. I have wanted a Sonos subwoofer to get bass on my audio system for years, and the son of subwoofers like 800 bucks. That's a fair amount of money. Yeah, but it does sound good, but I wanted it. But I wasn't going to spend the money for it. Until it suddenly I realized that for my business credit card. I accrue points, and I had like almost 1000 points. And so what it really meant was that the subwoofer, because I just suddenly one day on a whim, decided to look in the catalog of of items sold through this point system, and they had the Sonos subwoofer, and it was like 800 points. So I got my subwoofer and it didn't cost anything, which is great. Hey, that's wonderful. And I needed to use some of those points for something. And now they're they're growing again and probably what I'll do is wait and save up for an iPhone. Because for me like with iPhones, I don't need to have the latest and greatest one. And the reality is that the current iPhone On the iPhone 15 is good and has made some significant advances. But the thing that they publicize the most, of course, is the camera, which I don't really care as much about. So I'll probably wait for the 16 before I go off and make a purchase, no one has given me yet compelling reasons why, for my iPhone experience, it would be great to upgrade to the 15 from the 13. Somebody might come along and convince me and if that happens, great, but, you know, I do think we need to live within our means and being very conscious about it. It is certainly something I want to continue. And I and I know that for some people, it's hard, because they don't have the income. But we do have a lot of open jobs. And I wish we could figure out a way to convince people that maybe we need to take different jobs, and maybe we want to take but we can learn and we can at least earn an income. I think with any job you can always learn. And I think that learning is invaluable. Because you've learned something, you take that knowledge board with you, wherever you go, nobody can ever take it from you. Yeah. Well, so you went through challenges and that obviously had to help shape your, your view of things. So what happened after myasthenia gravis, and so on? And what did you What did you do to move forward? Well, I went through a very difficult and it was an interesting period of time, I call it my life wish death wish period.   Pat Wetzel ** 16:31 Obviously, I wanted to live, but I have lost everything that ever mattered to me. My in laws, who I loved dearly, my ex husband, who I loved, everybody was just on. And I really just didn't care about what happened. And the thing that's interesting about that, is I became somewhat fearless. And I started learning to fly sail planes. And I eventually ended up buying a high performance sail plane, which of course, I didn't know how to fly, I would have to figure that out since it was a single seat plane. But it was a very interesting period in my life. And I think that experience of being fairly fearless is something I want to take forward with me. So you went through a divorce and all that was because of the myasthenia gravis or other kinds of forces? You know, I'm not going to speak for my ex.   17:27 Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 17:29 It's, it's unfortunate, you know, things, things change. And sometimes we just aren't willing to change with it. But I don't know what what happened in your case. I know, for Karen and me, we live together, we were married for 40 years, she's always been in a wheelchair. And I've always been blind, we have undergone changes in our lives, a lot of economic challenges, job issues for a while. And of course, for me as a as a blind person, in fact, for her, but probably more for me.The difficulty in applying for a job is that so many people say well, you're blind, you can't do the job. And the prejudice is run really deep. And so for a while, the job I had was actually I ran my own company. And all of my employees were paid before I was paid. And so for actually three years, we mostly lived on credit cards. And that's all we could do. Because we had employees that we had to pay. And eventually, we did okay. And we sold the company and I went to work for other companies. And we came out of that. And again, eventually we were really able to pay off bills, but it really tests you. And it's a question of how much you're committed to staying with someone just because change has happened. And I think both Karen and I, at various times, had changes in our lives. But we made a strong commitment to stay with each other. And we did. So Karen got sick and 2014 we moved down here, which we never thought we were going to do. And she almost died. She was in the 40% that didn't pass away from double pneumonia with a 90% occlusion of her lungs. And she survived that. But still it it had a great toll on on both of us. But you make the decision to go forward. And she and I did. We talked about it a lot. And we we came through it. And it's all you can do. Well, I'm clapping for you. I think that's a difficult thing to do. And I think that it's the harder path but probably the path where you learn an awful lot. Well it is. I think you you learn a lot more if you are willing to do it and you go back to basic things. We made a commitment in November of 1982 to live with each other and stay married and in sickness and in health and and in money and not all that wasn't really part of the Vows but it was still there. And so we did. But you know, I can appreciate that there are always challenges that come up. And sometimes you have to deal with things. And in your case you you did lose a lot. But you've obviously worked and gone in other directions, right?   Pat Wetzel ** 20:16 Yeah, very interestingly, originally, way back when everybody thought I would write, and I'd love to read, I love to write. But I took the more practical path. Now, fast forward several decades, and I'm doing what I originally really wanted to do. You know, with a podcast, I'd have interesting, meaningful conversations every week. It's fabulous. And I'm working on my second book now bump in the road strong women. And it's, it's wonderful. It's a lot of work sometimes, but I really welcome it. And do you can always write another book called a bumpy road. But that's another story. There are no bumps in any one.   Michael Hingson ** 21:01 We need others. We could always talk about the pothole in the road. Just another thought, the pothole in the road instead of the bump in the road.   Pat Wetzel ** 21:12 Might zoom background, I have this curving road. And somebody said that I the curving road and the twists and turns just as not sufficient that I should actually blow the bridge up. Because that would give a much better sense of what is really like, well, you could have an automated background so every so often, it blows up.   Michael Hingson ** 21:34 That reminds me of the old original Addams Family, remember when Gomez Addams would always run the trains and would blow  all up? And so just saying that's another thought. Have an automated background and blow up the bridge every so often. I'll work on that. Yeah, there's something to consider. But you so so you have your own business now or what? Well, the the podcasts the book and I'm starting to do public speaking. Okay. And so does the podcast generate income for you, you must have a way of doing an income or have you done some of those suspicious bank robberies we don't know anything about.   Pat Wetzel ** 22:15 I bet they talk about my suspicious bank robberies, if you don't mind. But I'm the podcast is about breaks even. And obviously, the books in new revenue stream,   Michael Hingson ** 22:29 say that podcasting and writing books for most people is not a huge income stream, at least not individually. Right. How long have you been doing the podcast now? I'm going on my fourth year. Wow. That's pretty exciting. And yeah, I snuck out what's the average? What's the average failure rate or time to failure? For POCs? I think three or four months? Yeah, I think so. We're now two and a half. Well, almost two and a half years into unstoppable mindset. And we actually went from one episode a week to two episodes a week last year, because we were getting so much attention. And people said we want to be on the podcast. So we actually now do two episodes a day a week. And literally today this will tell people about when we're recording, we just upped uploaded and published episode 177. So we're having a lot of fun with it. And people are very kind and we have been getting great reviews and people say nice things. So I guess I can't complain too much.   Pat Wetzel ** 23:34 No, I think podcasting is just fabulous. I really do. I am so grateful for the people I meet, I meet the most interesting people. And because we're talking about their bumps in the road, we have meaningful conversations. And that means a great deal to me. Yeah, well, and with unstoppable mindset, as you know, I asked people to tell me what they want to talk about. And that's what we talk about, which is perfectly sensible. Because you don't want you want to talk about and can talk about a whole heck of a lot more than I do. And I think it's important to have conversations and not just do an interview. So this is a lot of fun to do. And, you know, having been on bump in the road, it's a lot of fun to thanks, I I'm very thankful for bump, it really came out of a bump in the road. And it has been, I think one of the most interesting paths I have taken in my life.   Michael Hingson ** 24:31 So why did you do it? What what really prompted you to start doing the podcast?   Pat Wetzel ** 24:37 I had lined up about a million dollars for a project I was working on called cancer road trip, where every quarter we would give seven people who've been impacted by cancer and amazing bucket list trip. The first trip was Tanzania. So we were looking at you know, Kilimanjaro, the metaphor of a mountain Safari and the metaphor of survival, Tanzania and the spice of life. that type of thing to tell stories against these iconic backups, but COVID hit. So everything shut down everything. Two years, and all the money I put into it were gone. So after being fairly depressed for about two weeks, I needed to do something, yeah, you can only eat so many potato chips, you know. So I decided I need to do something, and if nothing else, just to keep my social media audience that I had developed in place. So I decided to do a podcast, and the idea of a bump in the road came to me. And I didn't know if it would work. I didn't know if I could get anybody. I had no idea what would happen. I knew nothing about podcasting. But I dove in. And here I am, you know, three plus years later going into my fourth year. You do in addition to this, and the fact that you wrote a book and you're writing a new book, do you do any kind of coaching or consulting? Or do you strictly do the podcast and the book, right now I'm working on keynote, a keynote speech, speech, that can be adapted for a variety of environments, I really want to if I prepare enough, I actually enjoy public speaking. And I'm looking forward to combining some fun travel and some speaking over the next year and a half or so. Yeah, home speaking is starting to pick up again, since Karen passed, I now have the time to do it again as well. And now I don't have to worry about leaving her up. So I've started to work on trying to find more speaking engagements and to be able to inspire people. And the reality is there's a lot that we can inspire people about and we can certainly set a tone and a trend. So I look forward to to doing more public speaking again, and we're working on it, it's coming up.   Michael Hingson ** 26:54 I actually had an email correspondence with someone yesterday about possibly speaking at an event for them next year, and it was not a person I knew. But I wrote a letter. And it turns out that she read it almost immediately. And she wrote back and I was was humorous in the letter to a degree because apparently she was in a building for a while that burned down. And I said, a building that your building burned down. What a way to force people to work remotely rather than being in the office. Pretty clever way to do it. And she wrote back actually saw it this morning, she said, your letter came right at the right time. It was a down day yesterday, and you really brighten my day. But you know, I think that that's kind of the part of me. I love humor. Not in a negative way. But I love humor. And I love to try to get people to smile and laugh. Every time I go through a TSA kiosk and meet the TSA people. They always say, Where's your I need your boarding pass and your ID and I'll give him the boarding pass. I say but I need your ID and I said what did you do lose yours? You know, things like that. And they say, Oh, they have they have? Or during COVID When it was at a time when I would be wearing a mask? And I still do. But I would also say What do you mean, you want my ID? I'm wearing a mask? How are you going to be able to tell who I am? Oh, we're going to ask you to take your mask off. And I said, Well, I'm still just going to look like this piece of paper. What does that do for you? Yeah, but it's it's all about making them laugh. And I think it's important. Humor, in a good way has to be part of what we do. Because like with those people, it's such a thankless job, you know? Well, I think humor is important a lot. It gives you a little perspective. And life is short, enjoy it, enjoy the ride. And I think part of enjoying it is having a sense of humor. Otherwise, how do you survive? Yeah, it's important to be able to laugh at things and laugh at yourself, and help other people laugh because it is so hard to do. And we live in such a serious world. Today, with so many things going on. We need to find ways to lighten up and smile. So you know, I think it is really important. Can you tell us anything about what your keynote is, is looking like it will be about   Pat Wetzel ** 29:23 your strong women. My next book is a bump in the road strong women. I've interviewed some amazing women. And that's what I'm going to focus on.   29:33 Well,   Pat Wetzel ** 29:35 I'm really looking forward to it. Do you have a publisher? Or are you self publishing? Or how are you doing the books, self published and I've looked at the publishing options. So the reality is to get a top notch publisher, you have to be famous, essentially, I have about 80,000 people on my social media following and frankly, that doesn't even turn anybody's head anymore. If you go the hybrid route I interviewed and now   Pat Wetzel ** 29:59 number of well known publishers for the hybrid route. And reality is I'm doing more than they would do to market my books right now.   Michael Hingson ** 30:11 So I don't think that they bring a lot of value to the equation. So for the moment, I think self publishing looks like a way for me to go, Well, yeah, publishing in general, doesn't do the marketing in the stuff that it used to do. And they do want you to be a major contributor to the marketing effort if they publish your book at all. And I think it's possible to get books published, and there's value in using a publisher, if you can get them to read your book.   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 But at the same time, not everyone can do that, or wants to put that time into the marketing effort, which, which is part of the challenge. I think there are a lot of great books out there. My belief is everyone has a story to tell. And I wish more people would tell their stories, which is why we have unstoppable mindset. And you have   Pat Wetzel ** 31:00 likewise bump in the road? Absolutely. I, I think people's stories are amazing. I think we can learn so much each other. And it can really expedite our own learning curves, if we will just stop and really listen and feel. Because when you feel that wisdom seeps into you, it permeates you in a way that just a superficial story won't. Will Tell me a little bit more about bump in the road, when when did you publish it? And what's it about? Published in us just a September, so it's fairly new, we did hit Amazon Best Selling status, which was great. But I a bump in the road really came about because after about a little over a year, maybe years of doing the podcast, I was so moved, and so taken by the stories of my guests, that this wisdom just had a share. And I had a fairly unique perspective on all these stories. Because I have a 30,000 foot view, I hear everybody's story. And across all these stories, I see all these common elements that permeate them. And I thought, there's just so much to learn here from all these people. So that was the the orig origin of bump in the road, the initial book was twice as long as it is now. I had to cut it down. I probably have material for about 10 books, I just have to find the time to write them at this point. Yeah, well, you know, it's only so much one could do in a day, or you just have to work faster.   Pat Wetzel ** 32:32 Well, actually, you were talking about doing publishing twice a week in your podcast. But podcast is bumped through the spring of 2024 At this point, and I'm beginning to feel as though that's rude. I don't want people to wait because their stories are great. And I've been thinking that maybe what I need to do is, if possible, work harder to open up some time actually to write more.   32:54 Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 32:56 it is. It's valuable. We we wrote thunder dog and Susie flora and I did thunder dog. And it was published in 2011. And we were very blessed that Thomas Nelson publishing, took it on. They're the largest   Michael Hingson ** 33:11 Christian publisher in the world. Now they're part of HarperCollins.   Michael Hingson ** 33:15 And that has been a great relationship that has now gone on for 12 years. And I can't complain very much about any of that. They've been very supportive, and it continues to go well. Then we did self published running with Roselle. That was the second book. And that was more for kids, talking about what it's like to be a blind child growing up and a guide dog growing up, and then we meet and we ended up in the World Trade Center. But it wasn't nearly as much about the World Trade Center. But I've experienced both. We're writing a new book about learning to control fear. And we do have a publisher for that. And I expect we'll get some good things out of that. So it's it's pretty cool.   Pat Wetzel ** 33:58 That's interesting learning to control fear. What are some of the key factors in that?   Michael Hingson ** 34:05 I think the biggest thing is that we need to recognize that most of what we're afraid of is stuff that we can't control. And we just talk ourselves into a being afraid. And we've never learned how to stop fearing things. unexpected things happen are happening in our lives. And yes, there are physiological things that occur. But at the same time, what what we can do   Michael Hingson ** 34:29 is learn that fear is a very powerful tool. So I learned all that I could about what to do in the World Trade Center and how to function in the World Trade Center, what the emergency evacuation procedures were, and so on. And the result of all that was when an emergency actually did happen. I knew what to do. And I knew and I didn't even think about the fact that I was creating a mindset for that. As I was studying everything I could have   Michael Hingson ** 34:59 At the World Trade Center where things were, I love to tell people you could drug me in the World Trade Center and take me anywhere and drop me off. And when I woke up, I would know where I was within like about five seconds, because I knew the complex, I didn't need to read signs. And I think that's something that everyone needs to do is I create ppreciate eyesight, I value it.   Michael Hingson ** 35:21 But I also think that we spend too much time relying just on eyesight, and not our other senses. And the fact of the matter is that fear is something that often comes up because we think that things are unknown, that don't need to be unknown. So we don't really look at why we're afraid of things, we don't tend to be introspective, we don't tend to analyze. And those are all things that we should do, and learn, most important of all, only to worry about the things that we really can control and not worry about the rest, because it's not going to do us any good. That's true. I don't What do you think? How do you feel after you've moved through fear? What do you think some of the lessons are from overcoming fear? Well, I think of course, it depends on exactly what the situation is. But I think the important thing is that when you're afraid of something, or something happens, that causes you to be afraid, there will come a time when you're going to as you just pointed out, move through the fear, right? And what you need to do is to then stop and take the time, even if it's before you go to sleep at night, but take the time to look at why was I afraid? What was really going on? Did I really need to be afraid of this? And yes, there are certainly times where that is an issue when something happens that is is what would would cause a fear reaction. But most of the time, the things that we're afraid are going to happen, never do. But we tend to build up this fear. And we never then go back and look at why was I really afraid of that what what really is the motivator that I need to look at and re address so that I'm not afraid of that in the future. So I think it is an issue that, you know, that we do need to look at. But we we also have grown up so much not learning about how to deal with fear. And we live in a society today where people are learning not to trust each other or anyone. And that's why it's our third book is being called Live like a guide dog. Dogs love unconditionally. But dogs do not trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people are, is that dogs are unless something really horrible has happened to them. Dogs are open to trust. And we should find better ways to be open to trust. If somebody doesn't earn our trust, that's fine, then you don't deal with that. But we we are even open to dealing with trust, and the possibility that we can trust someone because we figure everybody has their own agendas. I think trust is really important. My favorite trust story actually comes from Mary Neal, who's in my book. She's an orthopedic surgeon, she ran the Spine Center at USC. And she and her husband were kayaking and Chile, as she went over a waterfall was well within her ability range, but she got trapped underneath it and she died. Her story is this is a near death experience story.   Pat Wetzel ** 38:27 Once she finally made it back to Jackson Hole through a remarkable series of coincidences, she was very badly hurt, she had to heal. And she's studying or trying to convince herself that her near death experience did not happen. Because she was a linear tangible scientist, who could if you see measure it, surely it doesn't exist. And at the end of that, she realized that her spiritual experience was indeed very real. And she as she says, and I just love this, she moved from hope to trust.   Pat Wetzel ** 39:01 What an incredible paradigm shift in how you view the world, and how you view your spirituality.   Michael Hingson ** 39:09 Yeah. And, and it makes perfect sense that the problem with science, to some degree, is as you said, if you can't measure it, it can't be so even though now we've learned to measure or observe things that we never did before. And we've learned that maybe things aren't quite as we think. But But science also tends to,   Michael Hingson ** 39:36 as you said, be very linear and linear. And the reality is the world isn't linear. Now, I think the world is has many mysteries to show us yet. Yeah. And that's what makes it fun. I've always loved the internet, because the internet is such a treasure trove of information. And it's fun to just go exploring and learning about different things in the internet and for me how   Michael Hingson ** 39:59 Be not seen my entire life,   Michael Hingson ** 40:03 I find the internet a really fun place to go and experience a lot of things that I never otherwise probably would have been able to experience. It is an alternative that makes data available to me.   Pat Wetzel ** 40:17 I agree as it was interesting, I was having a conversation earlier with somebody who asked me how I found the guests for my podcast. And I'm very fortunate now that people contact me all the time. And I don't have to look as I did. But I really enjoy the process of looking for guests. Because it takes me off on these explorations, I would never think of   Pat Wetzel ** 40:41 people whose paths otherwise I would never crossed. And it can just be from going down a rabbit hole on the internet, you run an interesting person, and they're just somebody you have to meet. I find the web just fascinating in that regard. Yeah, well, and I have found that with LinkedIn, and the Internet and and other things as well. And it's so fun when you get to meet somebody whose experiences are different than you. I tell people all the time, as far as I'm concerned, if I'm not learning as much, from my guess, as anyone else, that I'm not doing my job? Well, I think meeting people is a learning experience. And I think part of the key to learning is learning to listen, I've been on a little bit of a rant about this lately, on my side trips, which are super short podcasts under five minutes.   Pat Wetzel ** 41:32 I, I one of the things I would love to convey to people is learn to tell a good story.   Pat Wetzel ** 41:40 Telling a story is making it experiential. I mean, if you go on a trip, don't bore me with a litany of I do this, I did that I saw this, I saw that I did like this. Instead, tell me about an experience. Tell me about a fabulous meal, an incredible location. Tell me something experiential. You know, the best salespeople in the world are people who tell stories, and who get you to relate to their product and what they want to talk with you about by telling stories. Now, it still may be that what they have, isn't going to do the best for you. And they should be honest about that as well. But good salespeople tell stories, and that always enhances what they do, and what you learn from it. I think stories are incredibly powerful. And our personal stories are powerful, they're inspiring. I think that they are so full of wisdom, that it it puts all of us to stop and listen to each other because we just might learn something. And we might just find some real empathy for other people's.   Michael Hingson ** 42:50 The other thing that I would say is and you're talking about creating a keynote address, put stories in it. I'm sure that's not magic to you. But I think that it's important for people to relate to you. And they'll do that best with stories. I have always believed that I don't talk to an audience. When I go speak, I talk with an audience. And I look to see how they react to different things that I say. And I've learned how things that I talk about when I'm talking about them, affect people. And I've learned how much of relationship and rapport I've been able to establish with audiences by how they react to different things that I say it takes a breath or whatever. And I think that that's so important. I heard a speech once by someone who was talking about one subject relating to September 11. And they just went down this list of people. And they talked for 20 minutes, but there was no story. It was one of the one of the most boring things that I've ever heard.   Michael Hingson ** 44:01 And I've heard some people I've attended some speeches, where people are talking about financial things, people in the financial industry, and how boring they are because they're just reciting facts and figures. And don't do anything to relate to the average audience. I think that's very true. I was listening to somebody talk about a financial book they wrote recently. Oh my god, I just had to get the combination. It was so boring. I just   Pat Wetzel ** 44:30 and there were no stories just as you're saying.   Michael Hingson ** 44:34 So   Michael Hingson ** 44:36 what's the the format or what is what is the book bump in the road?   Pat Wetzel ** 44:41 The format are it's 15 stories about remarkable people. And each of those people represent a theme there some some of the themes would certainly be courage. Hers take a different path.   Pat Wetzel ** 44:56 Oh, they're just a travel is a theme in it   44:59 today   Pat Wetzel ** 45:00 is a big theme. I think authenticity actually is a theme that shows up in each and every story. I think each person after hitting a bump in the road, really pause to search for what is the right path forward for them. And each person finds a unique way to do that. Authenticity is a really interesting thing. And you have said that quieting your mind is a very important thing to deal with. When you're addressing personal authenticity. Why is that? I think learning to quiet your mind is first a totally learnable skill, found the most profound skills you can ever learn, and you need it in your arsenal. Because until you can learn to quiet your mind, still in peace internally, you can't learn to listen or observe your thoughts. Otherwise, your your mind just runs and runs and runs. And often the thoughts that occur to you may really be thoughts that are planted by you know, your societal surroundings, your parents, your employer, the expectations of life around you. But when you can learn to be still you can learn to observe your, your thoughts, and when ability comes awareness. Now you can consciously choose your thoughts. And that awareness is astonishing, it really gives you choice, at least a reflection. Personally, I'm a big fan of meditation to achieve that. And an hour of meditation is that it's experiential. That's where it really changes your life. And that's where learning occurs. There's joy and magic in endless silence, and there's profound peace. And once you experience that peace, it's not a no, it's not an intellectual thing. It's a heartfelt knowing that there is this piece that is always there, and always accessible. And you bring that all of a sudden into your everyday life, you know, road rage, who needs it, who cares, you have peace with you. It's really life changing. And there's so many different ways to meditate. You can use sound, it might be in sport, it could be in walking, it could be in gardening, it can be in sitting, I really fan, I really urge everybody to explore how meditation might be been might be beneficial for your life. And there, you've answered the question about controlling fear to a very large degree. If you stop and listen to yourself, and really are willing to take that step back, you'll learn so much that you'll never learn any other way. I've been a very great fan the last few months of saying Not that I'm my own worst critic when I think about things, but I'm my own best teacher. Because really, I'm the only one who can teach me other people can offer information. But I'm the only one that can really teach it to me. And I much prefer the positivity of I'm my own best teacher. And if people would really take the time to silence and step back, and listen. It's amazing how much you'll learn.   Pat Wetzel ** 48:04 And I think ultimately, the this road trip called Life is ideally a trip towards ever greater authenticity. And that demands that you stop and listen and make conscious choices about how you react, how you see things, and then ultimately be open to a broader world, and open to new experiences that can also help change and mold you.   Michael Hingson ** 48:29 Who are some of your favorite guests from a bump in the road.   Pat Wetzel ** 48:35 Every single one of them, I really can't pick a favorite.   Pat Wetzel ** 48:39 One that I thought was really very powerful was Effie Parks's story. She's a mom, and she was pregnant and happy and excited for the perfect child who's going to grow up and be a star and be an astronaut and whatnot. And our child was born with some very nice genetic defects. It was a tremendously isolating experience for her because as her friend's children grew, her her son, person the same way, and she had a 24/7 responsibility with a very disabled child. And her story really changed when she just found love in her situation. And finding that love just changed everything about her outlook and her perspective. And I love that story. Because I think it's a story for all of us. And I think it's a very profound story about how our perspective really shapes the way we view the world and how we have choice in how we view the world. So   Michael Hingson ** 49:41 in thinking about that, she found meaning in what she was doing, why is it really important to find the meaning of life for you? I think everybody needs to have meaning. Otherwise, what is the point   Pat Wetzel ** 49:55 are really just floating through through life and then we die. I think that   Pat Wetzel ** 50:00 You need meaning to motivate you, to help you get up every morning to rest, to learn to achieve capabilities in different areas, I think meaning is one of the critical pieces of a well lived life, though a bump in the road is all about a bump in the road of life.   Michael Hingson ** 50:21 And how do you navigate? What are some of the keys to navigating bumps in the road? Now? That's a great question.   Pat Wetzel ** 50:30 I think one of the themes, there are numerous themes. Certainly one is courage, we talked about fear earlier, be willing to face your fear and move through it. I think authenticity is a very an identity are very strong themes. I think these people had to look at their lives, strip away the pieces of them that no longer worked, and find a new person underneath it, find their most authentic person, and move forward with that. And generally, they were committed to really continuing that type of internal dialogue and practice as life went on.   Pat Wetzel ** 51:08 I think that one of the reasons I am fascinated by the idea of a bump in the road is What does teach us to navigate this, we all have to figure it out for ourselves. And that's a little crazy, there really are certain things that we can do, such as having courage, such as being willing to strip away these false identities that we all have, as a result of just moving through this side.   Pat Wetzel ** 51:32 I think that as we listen to each other stories, we can just learn so much, so much about these bumps. And I think it all comes down to willing to be open to change. A lot of people don't really change, they like the status quo, they like the comfort of being in their comfort zone. But the reality is the magic outside your comfort zone that the magic is. And the magic is in the present moment. Because in that moment, you can make a change. And you can then sculpt that the next moment, and the next. And that means getting out of your mind, getting into your heart getting into the present. And I think that's a lesson about how to blow these bumps. And the reality is, so what does that really do? It widens your comfort zone, and you learn to be more comfortable than you were before with a with a broader perspective, which makes perfect sense.   Pat Wetzel ** 52:29 And I think, as you bought in your comfort zone, and as you go through that type of activity again and again, you become more and more open to this amazing world we live in.   Michael Hingson ** 52:40 And it really is an amazing world. It's an incredible place where there is so much that we get to explore and so much that we get to do.   Michael Hingson ** 52:50 I, I get very frustrated so often because people are so I'm curious.   Michael Hingson ** 52:58 After September 11, I thought this was an amazing story. One of the things that I did the next month was I went to British Columbia to speak to a guided group. And they arranged for me to do some different interviews on Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, television. And I was on one show, but before the show, I was in the green room with several people, including somebody from a major Think Tank, who was a past Prime Minister of Canada.   Michael Hingson ** 53:28 And this was just after we, in the United States invaded Afghanistan. And so I asked this person, what do you think of George W. Bush? And they paused for a second and then said,   Michael Hingson ** 53:45 the real thing about him is he's the most uncurious person that I've ever met and ever knew. He relies on everyone and doesn't ever really explore for himself. I never expected that kind of an answer, but I can appreciate it. And it's so true for so many of us. We just don't explore for ourselves. We just take what people tell us and then we go on. I think that's very true. And I think cultivating curiosity should be high on everyone's list. Because it opens opens doors you would never expect. Oh, absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 54:23 I remember my father when we lived in Chicago was a TV repairman. He and my uncle owned a shop. And he said to me a few times when I was there and they were working on TVs he said no, don't stick your hands inside the TV because you'll get a shock. And I don't think I ever deliberately did it. But I got close enough a couple of times that I did get a shock.   Michael Hingson ** 54:45 I only used one hand   Michael Hingson ** 54:48 and and he said you know what did I tell you? And I said Well, I I didn't say anything I said yeah. He said let me unplug it and then you can look inside and he unplugged it and made sure things were discharged. I got to look   Michael Hingson ** 55:00 inside of a television, which back in those days was all about vacuum tubes and other things. So as before, as they say TV went dark, and it was all transistors, but he encouraged curiosity. And I think that that's so important that we all need to encourage curiosity. And also, I realize it's gotta be a real tough world for kids right now. And parents need to recognize you can't helicopter your kids, you can't shelter your kids, you can watch. But you got to let kids grow up. I read an article a couple of weeks ago, that was talking about what's the most important thing that we can do for children today? And the answer basically, was let kids explore, it doesn't mean that you don't monitor them. But we have to find ways to let children explore and learn more about the world. And I understand there's a lot of terrifying things out there. But if we don't let children explore, they're never going to learn. And this article pointed out that all they do is they grew up being afraid.   Pat Wetzel ** 56:00 You know, I think that's true, we're probably close to the same age. And when we were growing up, nobody wore helmets, we rolled in the dirt. You know, we just didn't have this fear, that seems to be bred into a lot of young people today. And I would wish for anybody who's young, to please pursue whatever interests you. And you have so much at your disposal, at this disposable. Everything on the web, my gosh, you can learn almost any these days, it's it's just remarkable. And you as a young person, your mind is so agile and open, quit, pursue whatever it is that spins your wheels. I do think that in reality, things like wearing a helmet that you mentioned, and other things are important. Because if you are in an accident, and they will help protect you, but you shouldn't do it out of fear. You should do it because we've learned how to advance and use tools and technology to help us be better and stay safer. It. It shouldn't be done out of fear, though. And that's the problem.   Pat Wetzel ** 57:12 Oh, I agree with but I'll also throw in one other thing. There's nothing like the wind moving through your hair. Yep. As your race down a hill. It's fun. It's exhilarating. It connects you to the world around you. So I think that there's a place for safety. And I think there's a place for risks. Oh, absolutely. No question about that. But But I think that one, they're not mutually exclusive. And one doesn't preclude the other and you just need to, to be wise about what you do. Tell me a little bit more about you and sail planning. That is a lot of fun.   Pat Wetzel ** 57:51 I kind of stumbled into it. To tell you the truth. I never expected to fly. But I was on a cross country trip. And I stopped at the Calistoga This was back Oh around 89 or so. And back then we'll country was still. It wasn't as polished as it is now. And Cal Stoeger was kind of a dumpy little town at the north end Valley. And I noticed that there was a runway and airport runway that intersected the Main Street. And I thought this is so strange. And so I went over to check it out. They had glider rides. So I took the ride in really well me that it was okay, but didn't allow me. Went back got back. And I heard about some lawyers of poor flying South Plains on weekends. And I invited myself out for a three day weekend. And I was hooked. And that was just the beginning of the end. I went on to move to another club. That was very competitive. Everybody had these beautiful high tech planes. I got it a plane. And I learned to I really learned to soar. It's a metaphor, and it's a sport. How far have you sort? That is? What's the longest flight you've been able to take? Oh, gosh, I'll say about 500 kilometers. Wow. And what do you do with the end of it? Do you? Do you turn around or do somebody come pick you up? Or what hope you land at the same airport? Oh, all right. So you go in a circle, you're not going in a straight line? Well, you can somebody a lot of people do straight out flights. I mean, there's it's it becomes a sport after a point where you're going for time you're going for distance you might go for altitude.   Pat Wetzel ** 59:35 And the other challenges in them I think in general with cross country soaring. Part of the challenge and the risk is getting back to your home airport. Because if you land out when I was flying, I started playing in the 90s before cellphones. So when you landed out, you didn't have GPS, you didn't know exactly where you were. You didn't have a phone. You had to make sure your plane was you know   Pat Wetzel ** 1:00:00 saved, then you had a hike out, find a phone somewhere. Hopefully they knew where you were, call back to the airport hope somebody picked up the phone and hope that some people would come and get you and help disassemble the plane and get it out of what field he lived in.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:19 Landed in. So it was really been an adventure on a number of levels. I remember when I was growing up in Palmdale, my father worked at Edwards Air Force Base, we went to the air shows every year. And I don't know what it was one year, there were a large number of gliders that were participating in the airshow. And this one pilot got in his plane. And he fluid not up in the air. But literally, he was able to just get it up on his wheels are on one wheel. And he flew the plane on the ground just in one position, but it didn't tip over. And he did it for like about a half hour, which was kind of fascinating. Wow, that is interesting. No, I think   Pat Wetzel ** 1:01:04 I think soaring is just an amazing sport on so many levels. And I think it's most amazing, because you're glitched to be able to do this, you work hard to get the skills. I mean, they're not given they don't come overnight. But the idea of wearing down a mountain lion or being up at over 30,000 feet. And just having this incredible view of the Earth from above. In a craft that is Island. Barron Hilton once wrote, Barron Hilton, founded Hilton Hotels and had a ranch in Nevada. And he sponsored an international soaring competition every year. And he has a book where he wrote, There was a foreword in the book by Baron Hill. The book is called silence in the wind. And he noted that a sail plane was a craft fueled only by the mind of the pilot.   Pat Wetzel ** 1:01:56 I can see why. And I think that's a great metaphor again for life. The decisions you make the peace, you find your work with the invisible energy around. And that's how you got your life. Now, do you still sore? No, I still be playing a number of years ago, I think I risk parameters were changing, hanging out 100 miles from the middle of nowhere, hoping somebody would come get you was getting old.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:22 You just needed to turn around sooner. There you go.   1:02:28 Well,   Pat Wetzel ** 1:02:30 another question about bumps in the road, the book, you have an online companion to it. Tell me about that. Yeah. I, I wanted it to be a multimedia experience and allow people to delve deeper into the stories, I have some very edited excerpts from some of the key parts of the cast each of my guests, but you can listen to the full podcast, which is in some cases only available as a subscriber. It's free for everybody buys the book, there's video, there are pictures so you can get a more comprehensive view of the guest. And I also have a workbook, because I think that the wisdom in all these stories is something we can explore within ourselves. And I give people some prompts and some ideas for how to take this wisdom and how to take these stories and apply them to their own lives for their own benefit. Is there an audio version of bump in the road?   Pat Wetzel ** 1:03:25 The audio version is actually being recorded right now as we speak. And I think it should be available in two or three weeks. Oh, good, because then I can buy the book and get the full subscription to the podcast. Absolutely. That's super. Where can people get bumps in the road? Amazon, of course.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:45 Makes sense. Well, that's, that is really cool. Well, I really am grateful that you came on and spend some time with us today, talking about all of the things that we got to talk about. If people want to reach out to you. How do they do that?   Pat Wetzel ** 1:04:00 They're the website bump in the road.us. The mail is talk t a l k @thebumpintheroad.us. There's a ton of information on the website interviews, audio visual components, it's a great website quite honestly, please come and explore it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:19 Well, I hope people will.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:22 You are fascinating. You've got a lot of good stories and you've offered a lot of really great information and wisdom that I think we should all take advantage of and I really value and appreciate you being here and if you hadn't sold your plane I would save that someday I'll be back there  we could go soaring. I've never done it. We'd love to but we'll figure something   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:43 that sounds good. But thank you for for being here. I want to thank you for listening we value your thoughts so as always, please feel free to send me an email at Michaelhi at accessibe.com That's m i c h a e I h i at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com, or go visit our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. So that's www.michaelhingson.com/podcast. And we would love to get your thoughts. Wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating we value your readings. But most important of all, we really value hearing from you we value your your thoughts, and input. And if you know of somebody who should be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know please introduce us. Same for you pad if you know someone who ought to be a good guest, we would really appreciate it. And sounds like you

In this episode Toby chats with Jason Alexander Cruz of Strung Out! They chat dropping out of high school, starting Strung Out, straight edge, experimenting with drugs, skating, family, tattooing, their new album, surfing, Palmdale, painting, touring, children's book, therapy and parenting.  Please remember to rate, review and subscribe and visit us at https://www.youtube.com/tobymorseonelifeonechance Please visit our sponsors! Athletic Greens https://athleticgreens.com/oloc Removery https://removery.com code TOBYH2O Liquid Death https://liquiddeath.com/toby

Rich sits down with Alex Camacho – Real Estate Investor, Coach, and Mentor. Alex has a track record of over 150 real estate investment deals in the past five years. His primary focus has been on residential properties in California, and Hawaii, while he also owns a multifamily building in Phoenix, Arizona. Alex has been featured on numerous platforms, including the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast (Ep. 418), Wealthy Way Podcast (Ep. 058), and Real Estate Disruptors. He also hosts real estate investing meetups in Los Angeles, attracting over 150 attendees. Rich and Alex start off by discussing Guadalajara and its culture, what Alex is doing in the real estate space in LA, Palmdale, what Alex is doing in the multi-family space, 1031-exchanges, Rich's Scottsdale Airbnb, the benefits of Las Vegas, and the Bigger Pockets conference.They then reflect on Alex's current passion projects, the benefits to working with virtual assistants, Alex's experience with hosting meetups in LA, promoting nightclubs in LA, the value of meetups, what Alex is focused on in 2024, why realtors don't get into investing, how Alex got into Real Estate, how Alex's family responded to him getting into investing, and how Alex responded to the interest rate hikes in 2022 and 2023.Lastly, they talk about the rate environment today, wholesaling deals, ADUs in LA county, permanent debt and seller financing, DSDR loans, Rich's Airbnb properties, why Rich and Alex love San Diego, living in Hawaii, what Alex would've done differently getting started, and Alex's biggest mistake.  Connect with Alex on Instagram: @alexcamachotvVisit BYLTBasics.com and use code “Somers20” at checkout for 20% on your next purchase.Visit primecorporateservices.com/richsomers to book a free call.--Connect with Rich on Instagram: @rich_somersInterested in investing with Somers Capital? Visit www.somerscapital.com/invest to learn more. Interested in joining our Boutique Hotel Mastermind? Visit www.somerscapital.com/mastermind to book a free call. Interested in STR/Boutique Hotel Management? Visit www.excelsiorstays.com/management to book a free call.

Rich talked about going to Chicago for the Auto Show and how it's great to see the auto revolution in person. See his highlights here.He mentioned a company called Emergency Safety Solutions that is trying to eliminate disabled vehicle crashes.He also mentioned upgrading his TV for the Super Bowl and recommends going OLED if you can. Also, he discovered modern TVs are spying on you with a feature called Automatic Content Recognition. Google the manufacturer of your TV along with “turn off ACR” to find directions on how to turn it off.Angie in Riverside wants wired internet in her home. Rich recommends trying a mesh network first but if that doesn't work, try searching for an installer on Yelp.Rich says the Super Bowl will be in 4K and explains how to watch or stream it.Emily Dreibelbis, EV Reporter at PCMag.com will chime in on the Chicago Auto ShowSam Abuelsamid, auto analyst at Guidehouse Insights will chime in on the Chicago Auto ShowDrake Moschkau, auto content creator will chime in on the Chicago Auto ShowDan in Carpenteria, CA wants to know if there is a way to change TV stations automatically.Louise wants recommendations for an outdoor TV. Rich says Sunbrite or Samsung Terrace are the popular picks, but you can find cheap outdoor TV's on Amazon, too.Disney+ will start its password-sharing crackdown this summer.Rich mentioned the MyShake earthquake app for alerts.Judy in Yucipa is getting a text message that says her service is going to be deactivated. Rich says it's bogus.Dee asks what's the best antenna to get for over-the-air channels. Rich recommends popping your zip code into the website at AntennasDirect.com and seeing what they say.Rich says there is a lot of information about you floating around online, including your address, phone number, passwords and more. There are a few ways to remove it. Google Results about you, Google Dark Web scanning and Mozilla Monitor can help you reclaim your online privacy.Guy from Moorpark has another solution for making any TV outdoor, a company called Apollo Enclosures.Ring is raising prices on its subscription service starting March 11, 2024.Ring has a powerful new video doorbell that gives you Pro-level features but with a battery. The Ring Battery Doorbell Pro is $230 and ships March 6.Dr. Chris Pierson, cybersecurity expert with BlackCloak.io, will explain how romance scams work and how to avoid them.Patty in Palmdale is having issues with her TV's.Stan in Oxnard is wondering is automation in cars is making worse drivers.Dan in New Hampshire needs an LTE security camera. Rich says to check out models from Arlo and Eufy.Hawaiian Airlines is the first major carrier to install Starlink high-speed internet on their planes.Alexa Emergency Assist might be a good solution to call for help in an emergency using your Echo speaker.Apple is developing a foldable iPhone. Duh.Google Bard is now Gemini.Rivian will unveil a cheaper new SUV called the R2 on March 7.T-Mobile customers can now get new perks through a program called Magenta Status.Kyle Vorbach, filmmaker, How I Faked My Life With AI, will talk about the history, benefits and dangers of the AI revolution58 - February 10, 2024Rich DeMuro talks tech news, tips, gadget reviews and conducts interviews in this weekly show.Airs 11 AM - 2 PM PT on KFI AM 640 and syndicated on stations nationwide through Premiere Networks.Stream live on the iHeartRadio App or subscribe to the podcast.Follow Rich on X, Instagram and Facebook.Call 1-888-RICH-101 (1-888-742-4101) to join in!Links may be affiliate.RichOnTech.tvRichOnTech.tv/wikiSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Rich discusses the launch of the Apple Vision Pro.Fred emailed to ask about the best TV's to buy if you're upgrading for the Super Bowl.Spencer in Charlotte, NC shared some recommendations on how to enjoy the upcoming solar eclipse and protect your eyes.Scott Stein of CNET will join to talk about his experience using Apple Vision Pro.Sean in Palmdale bought a smart light system and it won't work with eero.Amazon and iRobot agree to terminate their $1.7 acquisition deal.Social media executives were grilled by senators once again over child safety online.Matt Swider of the TheShortcut.com talks about bringing the Apple Vision Pro on a plane.Hulu is the latest to crackdown on password sharing.Paul in Fallbrook, CA is wondering why his recents calls and voicemails are showing up on his wife's iPhone.Paul in Columbus, Ohio wants to know why Costco TV's have different model numbers than other retailers.Robert wants to know how to connect ethernet devices to his T-Mobile wireless internet. Rich recommends a network switch.Sarah in Ventura is having trouble logging into a Zoom meeting.Amazon has a new AI shopping assistant called Rufus.Lisa Plaggemier, Executive Director at the National Cybersecurity Alliance, will join to talk about simple ways consumers can protect their privacy and data online.Walt in Oxnard is trying to get in touch with Peacock to update his credit card number. Rich says to use the official help pages and chat bot. Many online services don't have a phone number and if you search online for one you might be led into the hands of scam artists.Frank in Denver is wondering if his wife's iPhone was hacked becuase her contact photo changed. Rich thinks it's the new Contact Posters feature in iOS 17.A wild game called Palworld is super popular right now. It's kind of a twisted version of Pokemon.Snap is recalling all of it's Pixy drones because the battery can catch fire.Mickey in Camarillo wants to know if DuckDuckGo is a good way to keep your browsing private online.The Together by Renee app helps you manage your medicines, get vital signs with a selfie and can now analyze your voice for signs of anxiety and depression. iOS available now, Android on February 5.Robin Gelburd, President of FAIR Health will join to explain their new online tool that can help you figure out how much a medical procedure should cost by using a map of the body.Rich mentioned an app to help you pay medical bills called Papaya Pay.Yelp will now use AI to summarize reviews and what's notable about businesses and restaurants.TikTok has removed all Universal Music from it's platform after a licensing deal ended.Fossil is getting out of the smartwatch business, but will continue to support existing devices for a few years.Ford will give away free Tesla charging adapters so users can charge their Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning EV's on Tesla's charging network.Tesla's latest “recall” is actually another software update.Google Bard can now generate AI images for free.Philo is now available on VIZIO smart TV's.Cool new iOS App: Arc Search by the Browser Company. Rich mentioned he also likes Perplexity AI a lot for it's unique search results that are more like a little summary on a topic instead of links.57 - February 3, 2024Rich DeMuro talks tech news, tips, gadget reviews and conducts interviews in this weekly show.Airs 11 AM - 2 PM PT on KFI AM 640 and syndicated on stations nationwide through Premiere Networks.Stream live on the iHeartRadio App or subscribe to the podcast.Follow Rich on X, Instagram and Facebook.Call 1-888-RICH-101 (1-888-742-4101) to join in!Links may be affiliate.RichOnTech.tvRichOnTech.tv/wikiSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Lt. Col Daniel Davis – Military strikes in Iraq & Syria // Mayor Bass & Fire Chief Kristin Crowley warning of Storm // L.A. Kings fire coach Todd McLellan w Missak Thomlison-kidney disease // U.S. Military strikes in Iraq & Syria /B-1 Lancer background