Podcast appearances and mentions of barry gordy

AYN RAND, BARRY GORDY, JESUS STAR IN THIS SERMON. YOU HEARD IT ON THE GRAPEVINE.

This week is the seventh volume of our deep dive into the trippy and groovy beginnings of the heavy stuff! Cut your lava lamp on, gaze at that blacklight poster through the haze of smoke, and join your favorite rock n' roll grave robbers as they dig deep into the core of 70s Acid Rock n' Proto Metal crypt to unearth some obscure bands that helped influence and mold what would become known as Heavy Metal. What is it that we do here at InObscuria? Well, we exhume obscure Rock n' Punk n' Metal in one of 3 categories: the Lost, the Forgotten, or the Should Have Beens. This particular episode is planted firmly in the: LOST category, as all of these recordings occurred between 1970 – 1976. As always, our hope is that we turn you on to something new in a genre and decade that you may have thought you already knew everything there was to know.Songs this week include:Agnes Strange - “Messin' Around” from Strange Flavour (1975)Socrates Drank The Conium - “Death Is Going To Die” from On The Wings (1973)Piraña - “Thinking Of You” from Pirana II (1972)Zior - “I Really Do” from Zior (1971)November - “Ganska Långt Från Sergel” from 2:a November (1971)The Power Of Zeus - “It Couldn't Be Me” from The Gospel According To Zeus (1970)Wicked Lester - “She” from Wicked Lester (1972)El Ritual documentary in Spanish on YouTube from 2022 https://youtu.be/K1xz6R9nH3k?si=Gd6I90SC19ZkOLWmPlease subscribe everywhere that you listen to podcasts!Visit us: https://inobscuria.com/https://www.facebook.com/InObscuriahttps://x.com/inobscuriahttps://www.instagram.com/inobscuria/Buy cool stuff with our logo on it!: https://www.redbubble.com/people/InObscuria?asc=uIf you'd like to check out Kevin's band THE SWEAR, take a listen on all streaming services or pick up a digital copy of their latest release here: https://theswear.bandcamp.com/If you want to hear Robert and Kevin's band from the late 90s – early 00s BIG JACK PNEUMATIC, check it out here: https://bigjackpnuematic.bandcamp.com/Check out Robert's amazing fire sculptures and metal workings here: http://flamewerx.com/

Core Topics:Barb Betts: Build authentic relationships rooted in empathy and trust to drive meaningful connections and long-term success.Dan Chuparkoff: Use AI tools like ChatGPT to customize speeches for specific audience needs, ensuring relevance and resonance.Lisa Even: Integrate purposeful humor to make keynotes more engaging, memorable, and relatable.Jessica Abo: Leverage media by connecting keynote topics to current events, creating newsworthy stories that boost visibility.Chris Rollins: Adopt the "ACE" pre-talk routine—Align, Connect, Envision—to prepare for impactful presentations.Todd Hirsch: Personalize speeches by including client-specific trivia or achievements, fostering goodwill and connection.Cam F. Awesome: Collaborate with chambers of commerce to increase speaking opportunities and network with decision-makers.Rashad Rayford: Structure stories with a Spark, Struggle, and Solution to craft impactful and memorable narratives.Sheri Jacobs: Stay authentic while growing professionally, as audiences value genuine, relatable messages.Shasta Nelson: End keynotes on a positive emotional note with inspiring stories, leaving a strong, lasting impression.Michelle Anne Johnson: Cultivate a positive mindset before speaking to enhance presence and influence. Replace negative internal monologues with excitement and anticipation.ABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Join hosts Krissy Lenz and Nathan Blackwell with special guest Alice Baker as they roundhouse kick their way through Barry Gordy's 1985 martial arts musical mashup The Last Dragon. This cult classic blends kung fu action, Motown music, and 80s pop culture into a unique cinematic experience that defies traditional genre boundaries.The hosts dive deep into the film's peculiar plot, following Leroy Green's quest to achieve "the glow" while navigating between two outrageous villains: the flamboyant Sho'nuff (played brilliantly by Julius Carry) and the unhinged video game mogul Eddie Arcadian. The discussion highlights how the movie, despite being a critical failure, became a beloved cultural touchstone, particularly in the Black community, spawning memorable catchphrases and iconic scenes.The episode reveals fascinating behind-the-scenes details, including how the film nearly missed securing Bruce Lee footage rights and lost 40 pages of script in a fortunate accident that actually helped streamline the final cut. The hosts also explore the impressive Motown soundtrack, featuring collaborations with legendary musicians, though they agree some of the songs haven't aged as gracefully as others.Key Topics Covered:Early career appearances by William H. Macy and Chazz PalminteriThe impressive roster of actors who almost played Leroy, including Denzel Washington and Lawrence FishburneVanity's decision to choose this film over Purple RainThe cultural mixing of various martial arts styles and traditionsThe film's innovative blend of music video aesthetics with martial arts actionNotable fight choreography by Robert van CleefYoung Ernie Reyes Jr.'s scene-stealing performanceThe movie's influence on future films, including possible Matrix connectionsVarying audience reactions and the film's revival screening appealWhether you're a longtime fan or discovering this unique piece of 80s cinema for the first time, this episode offers an entertaining deep dive into a film that perfectly encapsulates the decade's excess, style, and charm. The hosts rate it between 6-7 out of 10, agreeing that while the plot may meander, the entertainment value, particularly when watched with friends, makes it a worthwhile viewing experience. --We couldn't do this without your support of The Most Excellent 80s Movies Podcast! Thank you!Join now for: $5/Month • $55/year • Learn More

Guest Bio:Shola Richards is a celebrated speaker, author, and workplace civility expert known for his advocacy in building more inclusive, respectful, and human-centered workplaces. After overcoming severe personal challenges in a toxic work environment, Shola dedicated his career to helping others navigate and transform organizational cultures through his speaking, writing, and training. His new book, Civil Unity, explores practical ways to foster civility and collaboration in even the most challenging environments. Shola's work has been featured in numerous high-profile outlets, and he is sought after by Fortune 500 companies, educational institutions, and government agencies to help cultivate cultures of radical kindness and meaningful change.Core Topics:Turning Pain into Purpose: Shola shares his personal story of battling depression and almost losing his life due to a toxic work environment. He discusses how this breaking point became the catalyst for his mission to eliminate workplace incivility and improve organizational cultures. The Case for Kindness in Leadership: Addressing leaders who may view kindness as “soft,” Shola makes a compelling argument that compassion drives better results, greater engagement, and higher discretionary effort from employees. He explains why focusing on human connection is essential for business success.Ubuntu Philosophy in the Workplace: Shola dives into the concept of Ubuntu, meaning “I am because we are,” as a guiding principle for how teams and organizations can prioritize human connection, unity, and shared success over division and individualism.Practical Tools for Civil Discourse: In a world increasingly divided, Shola provides actionable techniques for engaging in civil discourse, even around heated topics. He shares strategies for setting ground rules in conversations and reducing conflict by seeking common ground.Resources:Learn more about Shola Richards:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramYouTubeXFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

These children of showbiz legends are ensuring that their fathers' memories and legacies live on. We speak with James Tormé and Melissa Tormé-March about their Velvet Fog of a dad, Mel Tormé, as we approach the 80th anniversary of his incomparable contribution to the holiday music canon, 'The Christmas Song'. Then Joel Brokaw joins us. His new book 'Driving Marilyn: The Life and Times of Legendary Hollywood Agent Norman Brokaw' chronicles the history of William Morris star-maker, Norman Brokaw, known to Joel as Dad.Melissa and James share their enthusiasm for Oy! To the World Christmas with a Twist, a new musical playing this month at North Hollywood's El Portal Theatre, which features their father's music alongside a hit list of Christmas classics composed by Jewish-American songwriters. James and Melissa take us back to the sweltering July day in 1945 when their Dad and Bob Wells attempted to beat the heat with wintery lyrics and remained sweaty but created magic by conjuring “Chestnuts roasting on an open fire…”They rushed the song over to Nat King Cole who was in at a few bars and proudly led a parade of 80,064 recorded covers, including James' own version! The Torme kids share their Torme Christmas memories which include their dad and contraband Christmas movies!Then Joel shares his family's history as a Ukrainian vaudeville acrobatic act that segued into the agency business when his Uncle, Johnny Hyde became VP of William Morris, discovered Marilyn Monroe and took on his young nephew, Norman to drive and accompany Marilyn to events.Starting in the mailroom, Norman worked his way up to CEO.  We hear about his working relationships with Marilyn Monroe, Kim Novak, Colonel Tom Parker, Dick Van Dyke, Gerald Ford, Mark Spitz, Barry Gordy and so many other greats.Joel talks about his complicated history with a father whose clients received his primary caregiving. Joel grew up with TV stars spending weekends by his pool, monopolizing his Dad's attention.But what were the qualities that made Norman so affective as a talent mentor? We learn the magic ingredients and hear how Norman took the new fangled TV department and made history with Loretta Young, Barbara Stanwyck, Dick Van Dyke and Andy Griffith.  Joel also talks about Norman's relationship with Bill Cosby and how his father's dementia buffered him from the horrors of Cosby's crimes. And, finally, what was the fate of Norman's sacred, secret keeping Rolodex?Plus, this week Weezy recommends Nutcrackers on Hulu and Fritz is all about Thelma, now in theaters and on streaming platforms.Path Points of Interest:Oy! To The WorldJames Tormé James Tormé on YouTubeJames Tormé  on XThe Christmas Song by James Tormé James Tormé at Kookaburra on 12/21Joel BrokawDriving Marilyn by Joel BrokawNorman Brokaw on WikiNutcrackers on HuluThelma - Streaming in Most Places  

Guest Bio:Patrick McAndrew is the founder of Hara, a high-impact community focused on self-mastery for the self-made. He began his career as a speed-reading instructor and has since become a leading voice in attention and mental performance. Patrick's work centers on helping leaders go beyond linear learning to develop practices that strengthen focus, resilience, and intentionality. His methodologies bridge the gap between cognitive science and human-centered leadership, equipping professionals with the tools to cultivate their best selves while achieving organizational impact.Core Topics:Rethinking Productivity: Moving Beyond Willpower and Motivation: Patrick shares how traditional approaches to productivity often miss the mark by focusing on external solutions like willpower and motivation. Instead, he reveals how the real struggle is internal fragmentation—our inability to organize thoughts, emotions, and energy. His focus is on creating systems that address the root cause rather than treating the symptoms of distraction.Linear vs. Nonlinear Learning: Designing for the Modern Workforce: Through his experiences running Momentum Mind, Patrick highlights why linear learning models fail to resonate in today's fast-paced environments. He discusses how a nonlinear mentorship approach, with adaptive content and context-based problem-solving, can meet people where they are and help them address deeper challenges beyond simple skill-building.Self-Mastery for the Self-Made: Aligning Business and Personal Growth: Patrick explains why he launched Hara and the philosophy behind it: mastering the inner game of life and business simultaneously. He emphasizes that success is not just about professional achievements but aligning personal growth with business impact. Hara is designed as a community where leaders refine both their business acumen and personal mastery through shared experiences, deep mentorship, and continuous refinement.The True Value of Thought Leadership: From Information to Wisdom: In a world of information overload, Patrick argues that value no longer lies in mere data or knowledge. Instead, the focus should be on transforming that information into actionable wisdom. He shares how thought leaders can elevate their impact by cutting through noise, offering clarity, and developing insights that resonate on a deeper, more human level.Resources:Learn more about Patrick McAndrew:WebsiteLinkedInYouTubeLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Gaby Natale is a media entrepreneur, author, and the first Latina to be published by HarperCollins Leadership. She is the host and co-founder of SuperLatina, a nationally syndicated television show, and has won three Daytime Emmy Awards for her work. Known for her advocacy and pioneering spirit, Gaby uses her platform to empower others to embrace their uniqueness and defy stereotypes. Her bestselling book The Virtuous Circle provides a framework for turning obstacles into opportunities and unleashing your full potential.Core Topics:The Pioneer Mindset: Using Uniqueness as a Superpower: Gaby explores the concept of a pioneer mindset and how embracing your authentic self can transform your professional path. She challenges the notion of conformity and encourages leaders to harness their unique strengths instead of emulating others. This approach, she explains, is essential for achieving breakthroughs and standing out in any industry.Breaking the Emulator Cycle: Creating from Authenticity: Gaby discusses the trap of emulating others and why it often leads to mediocrity. While imitation can be a starting point, she urges speakers and professionals to move beyond copying and cultivate their own distinctive voices. She shares strategies for identifying where authenticity is being suppressed and how to activate your unique potential.The Virtuous Circle: Activating Your Inner Archetypes: In The Virtuous Circle, Gaby outlines seven archetypes that guide personal and professional development. From the Dreamer to the Warrior, she teases how each archetype plays a role in nurturing creativity, resilience, and leadership. She also shares a glimpse of how these archetypes can help individuals assess where they are thriving and where they may need to grow.Finding Strength in Vulnerability: Turning Setbacks into Growth: Through her personal story of overcoming setbacks and fighting for her place as a Latina media entrepreneur, Gaby illustrates how embracing vulnerability can become a powerful catalyst for growth. Her journey highlights how transparency and openness about challenges can inspire others and lead to deeper, more impactful connections.Resources:Learn more about Gaby Natale:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramYouTubeXFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Mel Kanar was the supplier. He knew the bands, the songs, the CEO and the DJ's. What music fans don't know is how large of a roll he played on charting early rock and roll on radio throughout suburban Detroit and beyond. The sounds you heard, you favored, you loved, smash or trashed, Mel was the delivery man and the polisher for the companies that needed their palms greased in order to get the next big song on the radio.    You've heard it all about payola, the rags to riches, the gravity of the unknown coming to light. Mel was the lynchpin in all of it for Michigan and mid-west early rock and roll. He knew Barry Gordy, he knew the big DJs, he knew the clubs and he drove the bands.    Here in Part 2, Mel digs into payola, blues, the English music invasion, insurance sales, and his money saving toilet ideas that he has invested in. A living, walking legend from the top of the pops, to the flushing lows...it's all here! Turn it up...

Guest Bios:Shelley Paxton: Former CMO of Harley-Davidson, Shelley left her high-powered corporate career to pursue a more meaningful path, coining the term Soulbbatical. As an author, keynote speaker, and guide, Shelley helps others redefine success on their own terms, inspiring leaders to build bold, brave, and authentic lives. Shelley's signature message—“I Quit So You Don't Have To”—is the core of her keynote and forthcoming book.Chris Schembra: Founder of the 7:47 Gratitude Experience, Chris has made a career out of helping people connect more deeply through shared experiences. From hosting intimate dinners to delivering workshops and keynotes, Chris focuses on fostering vulnerability and gratitude, encouraging organizations to build a culture of empathy and inclusion. His latest book, Gratitude Through Hard Times, delves into the transformative power of appreciation.Core Topics:Liberating Yourself from “Success-Empty” to “Success-Full”: Shelley advocates for a fundamental redefinition of success that goes beyond external accolades. Through her concept of Soulbbatical, she explores how true fulfillment comes from listening to your own voice, not society's expectations. Shelley's goal is to help professionals escape the trap of “success-empty”—having material success but feeling unfulfilled—and embrace a richer, more meaningful version of success by aligning with their core values and passions.Fostering Human Connection as a Business Strategy: Chris emphasizes that human connection should be at the heart of every business strategy. By using gratitude as a tool for fostering genuine relationships, he challenges companies to build deeper bonds between employees and clients. His 7:47 Gratitude Experience—a shared meal centered around expressing thanks—demonstrates that something as simple as asking the right question can dismantle barriers, create a sense of belonging, and ultimately drive better business outcomes.The Courage to Say “No”: One of the hardest, yet most powerful strategies for growth is learning to say no. Whether it's declining opportunities that don't align with your values or setting boundaries that protect your energy, they argue that success comes not from chasing every option, but from focusing on what truly matters. For Shelley, this principle shows up in her ability to pass on engagements that don't resonate with her core message. For Chris, it's about maintaining focus on his passion for creating meaningful connections, rather than chasing every possible business avenue.The Impact of Living Your Values Daily: A key theme in both Shelley's and Chris's stories is the importance of living authentically. From Shelley's tattoo of “Authenticity” to Chris's “Focus Equals Growth” mantra, both speakers emphasize that true success comes from daily decisions that reinforce personal values. Whether it's through their keynote messages or personal interactions, they model how consistently honoring one's principles can lead to professional success and personal satisfaction. Resources:Learn more about Shelley Paxton:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramTikTokLearn more about Chris Schembra:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Mel Kanar was the supplier. He knew the bands, the songs, the CEO and the DJ's. What music fans don't know is how large of a roll he played on charting early rock and roll on radio throughout suburban Detroit and beyond. The sounds you heard, you favored, you loved, smash or trashed, Mel was the delivery man and the polisher for the companies that needed their palms greased in order to get the next big song on the radio.    You've heard it all about payola, the rags to riches, the gravity of the unknown coming to light. Mel was the lynchpin in all of it for Michigan and mid-west early rock and roll. He knew Barry Gordy, he knew the big DJs, he knew the clubs and he drove the bands. Get in the car with Mel for Episode 1 of 2 here in the MMHP!

Guest Bio:Carla Johnson is a world-renowned keynote speaker, author of ten books, and a master of connecting the dots between creative problem-solving, strategy, and customer experience. She is best known for helping leaders and organizations cultivate innovative thinking and apply it to everyday business challenges. Carla's innovative approach earned her the title of the world's leading innovation architect, working with Fortune 500 brands, startups, and associations to rethink how they innovate and achieve breakthrough results. Her latest book, Rethink Innovation, provides a roadmap for unlocking creativity and achieving bottom-line impact.Core Topics:Defining and Conquering Your "Three-Story Limit": Carla's concept of the "Three-Story Limit" is a powerful metaphor for the boundaries we often unknowingly impose on ourselves. Just as early architects believed buildings couldn't exceed three stories, people often set limits on their potential. By identifying these hidden barriers and confronting them directly, leaders and innovators can break through constraints and reach new heights, just as William LeBaron Jenney did with the world's first skyscraper.Cultivating Curiosity as a Strategic Advantage: Curiosity, according to Carla, is the foundational skill that drives all forms of creative thinking and problem-solving. By intentionally pausing to understand a problem fully and resisting the urge to jump to quick solutions, professionals can uncover unconventional insights. Carla suggests applying curiosity in structured ways, such as reframing problems, examining them from multiple perspectives, and exploring ideas to their extreme possibilities.Exposing the Hidden Costs of the Status Quo: Carla argues that maintaining the status quo often carries a hidden cost—stagnation and loss of relevance. She challenges organizations and individuals to evaluate whether their “safest” path is actually putting them at risk of obsolescence. By constantly questioning accepted norms and pushing for bold experimentation, people can unlock new growth opportunities and avoid the trap of complacency.Applying the Concept of "Expiration Dates" to Drive Continuous Reinvention: To prevent content and strategies from becoming stale, Carla introduces the idea of assigning “expiration dates” to everything from keynotes and speaker reels to messaging and business strategies. This practice encourages regular re-evaluation, keeping ideas fresh and compelling. It's not about change for the sake of change but rather about embracing a mindset of continuous renewal to remain relevant and impactful in a rapidly evolving world.Resources:Learn more about Carla Johnson:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramXLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Amy Eddy is a senior agent at BigSpeak Speakers Bureau, where she helps top keynote speakers connect with businesses and organizations across industries. With a deep understanding of market dynamics and the unique needs of clients, Amy has built a reputation for excellence in the speaking industry. In addition to her work at BigSpeak, Amy is the founder of iFlourish, a nonprofit organization focused on helping women navigate personal and professional challenges to live more fulfilling lives.Core Topics:Market Shifts and Staying Relevant: Amy shares how the speaking market is evolving, with topics like AI and innovation taking center stage. She highlights how businesses are shifting focus from solely human-centered topics to more business-driven outcomes, showing speakers how to position their content to meet current demands without losing authenticity.Speaker-Bureau Relationships: Amy offers practical advice on how speakers can build strong, lasting relationships with bureaus. She emphasizes the importance of consistent, relevant content and maintaining a balanced communication strategy to stay top of mind without being overwhelming. A key takeaway: make it easy for bureaus to champion you by sharing digestible, timely updates.The Art of Personal Connection: Amy explains how face-to-face meetings, even something as simple as grabbing coffee with a bureau agent, can help speakers stand out. Building personal relationships, rather than relying solely on transactional interactions, helps speakers become the go-to choice for agents pitching clients.Creating Impact Through iFlourish: Amy opens up about her personal path toward fulfillment and how that led to founding iFlourish, a nonprofit focused on helping women overcome feelings of being stuck in their personal and professional lives. She explains how the organization is designed to provide that initial spark of change, helping women find joy, meaning, and confidence in their everyday lives.Resources:Learn more about Amy Eddy & BigSpeak:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

In this powerful episode of the Secret to Success podcast, ET, CJ, Karl, and Jamal break down the legendary partnership between Barry Gordy and Smokey Robinson at Motown and the invaluable lessons it holds for your personal and professional life. Discover how vision, teamwork, and resourcefulness helped build one of the greatest music empires of all time—despite limited resources and countless obstacles. Learn how to apply these same principles to your business, family, and dreams, and why starting with what you have is the key to unlocking greatness. Don't miss the hilarious stories, powerful insights, and actionable steps that will take you to the next level! Patreon To check out exclusives and more behind the scenes interactions, head over to Patreon.com/S2Spodcast120 to become a Secret To Success Patreon! Listener Perks Organifi Is giving our listeners up to 20% off of their order! Just go to www.organifi.com/success. Support your journey from sunrise to sunset with fan-favorite superfoods backed by science to replenish micronutrients, support energy and balance hormones from am to pm with our customer favorites.

Guest Bio:Smiley is a highly sought-after speaker and thought leader known for his expertise in belonging and human connection. With a background in understanding workplace dynamics and the effects of loneliness on productivity, Smiley has become a key voice in promoting the value of connection in the corporate world. His work is grounded in solid data, making a compelling case for why fostering belonging is not just a 'soft' skill but a crucial driver of business success. Smiley's engaging style and authentic approach have made him a favorite among audiences looking to create more cohesive and supportive environments.Core Topics:The Business Case for Belonging: Smiley breaks down the critical importance of belonging in the workplace, presenting data-driven insights that show how a strong sense of connection can significantly boost productivity, reduce turnover, and improve overall job satisfaction. His approach helps organizations see belonging as a strategic priority, not just a nice-to-have.Staying True to Your Message: Authenticity is at the heart of Smiley's message. He shares how being genuinely aligned with your message is crucial for impact. For Smiley, this means living the principles he talks about—creating connections, fostering inclusivity, and making people feel valued in every interaction. This takeaway emphasizes the power of congruence between your message and how you show up in the world.Building Deep Relationships: Smiley emphasizes that success in speaking and business is deeply rooted in building strong, meaningful relationships. Whether with clients, colleagues, or audiences, Smiley shows that paying attention, showing appreciation, and fostering genuine connections are key elements of his success and can be for others too.Innovating with the Workplace Belonging Toolkit: Smiley introduces his Workplace Belonging Toolkit, a practical resource designed to help organizations continue the work of fostering connection beyond the keynote. The toolkit is an innovative way to provide ongoing value to clients, ensuring that the lessons from his talks are actionable and long-lasting.Resources:Learn more about Smiley Poswolsky:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:April is a dynamic leader known for her expertise in driving hyper-growth within organizations. With a background in healthcare and a track record of leading companies to unprecedented levels of success, April has become a prominent figure in the world of business and professional speaking. Her ability to translate personal and organizational challenges into actionable growth strategies has made her a respected voice in her field. April's passion for helping others achieve their potential is evident in her work, whether she's on stage or leading teams.Core Topics:From Small Beginnings to Big Dreams: April's story is a testament to the power of curiosity and resilience. Her journey from a small-town upbringing to leading a billion-dollar company highlights the importance of thinking big and taking calculated risks. Listeners will gain insights into how embracing their ambitions, despite limited resources or initial failures, can lead to remarkable achievements.Navigating Hyper-Growth: During her time at AYA, April played a crucial role in scaling the company to incredible heights. She emphasizes that real growth starts from within—both within the organization and within ourselves. April's experiences will inspire listeners to focus on their internal decision-making processes and personal growth as they strive to overcome external challenges.The Transition to Thought Leadership: For April, becoming a thought leader was about making sense of her experiences and sharing those lessons with others. By turning her professional journey into a mission to help others, she found a deeper sense of purpose. This segment encourages listeners to reflect on their own journeys and consider how they can use their experiences to impact others.The Growth Game Plan: April's signature framework provides a structured approach to achieving growth in turbulent times. She shares practical strategies for staying relevant and ensuring that audiences not only feel inspired but also leave with actionable tools. This discussion will resonate with anyone looking to refine their approach to personal and professional development.Personal Resilience and Growth: April's story is one of turning trauma into growth. She discusses how facing personal and professional challenges head-on led to greater self-awareness and resilience. This segment offers listeners a powerful reminder that the path to success often requires navigating through adversity and emerging stronger on the other side.Resources:Learn more about April Hansen:WebsiteLinkedInYouTubeXLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Jeff Civillico is an award-winning entertainer, speaker, and philanthropist. Known for his high-energy performances, Jeff has headlined in Las Vegas since 2009 and performed over 5,000 shows. He is the founder of the nonprofit organization Win-Win Entertainment, which brings smiles to children, patients, and staff in hospitals nationwide. Jeff's keynote, "Work That Matters," blends inspiration, team building, and entertainment to deliver a powerful message on the impact of using one's platform for positive change.Core Topics:The Path to Entertainment: Jeff's story from starting as a street performance volunteer to a Las Vegas headliner highlights the importance of seizing opportunities and following one's passion. His story underscores the value of embracing your unique path and the power of small moments in shaping a career.Creating Impact Through Performance: Jeff's "Work That Matters" keynote emphasizes the significance of using your platform to make a positive impact. For speakers, this means recognizing the influence they have and using their voice to inspire and uplift others, both on and off the stage.Lessons from Nonprofit Work: Jeff's dedication to charitable work through Win-Win Entertainment demonstrates how giving back enriches one's professional and personal life. We can draw inspiration from Jeff's example to incorporate purpose-driven initiatives into our own careers, enhancing our overall impact.Balancing Adventure and Career: Jeff's adventurous pursuits, like juggling in zero gravity, reflect his zest for life and willingness to push boundaries. He showcases the importance of embracing new experiences, staying curious, and continuously challenging yourself to grow both personally and professionally.Resources:Learn more about Jeff Civillico:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramYouTubeXFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Brittany Hodak is an award-winning entrepreneur, speaker, and author known for her expertise in creating unparalleled customer experiences. She has worked with some of the world's biggest brands and artists, including Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, and Walmart. Brittany's book, "Creating Superfans: How to Turn Customers into Lifelong Advocates," has garnered acclaim for its practical and impactful approach to customer engagement. Brittany also holds a master's degree in consumer behavior and psychology, further deepening her understanding of what drives customer loyalty and brand advocacy.Core Topics:The Path to Entrepreneurship: Brittany's story highlights the importance of seizing opportunities and the impact of encouragement from mentors. She showcases the importance of recognizing pivotal moments and using them as launch pads for your own ventures. Brittany's experience underscores the value of believing in your ideas and taking calculated risks.Transition to Professional Speaking: Transitioning to professional speaking can be a natural extension of your expertise. Brittany's experience shows that your unique story and insights can create demand for your speaking engagements. Understand the importance of recognizing your value and not undervaluing your time and expertise.Creating Superfans: The SUPER model provides a structured approach to building a loyal audience. This translates to understanding your audience deeply, personalizing your message, exceeding expectations, and consistently delivering value. Brittany's framework can help anyone develop a strong, engaged following that supports your career growth.Expert Advice for Speakers: Brittany emphasizes the importance of refining your message and consistently seeking feedback. The focus should be on honing your craft and ensuring your message resonates deeply with your audience. She also reminds us all of the value of continuous improvement and staying connected with your audience's needs.Resources:Learn more about Brittany Hodak:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramYouTubeFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

  In this episode of the Market Call show, I sit down with Jason Meshnick, a market maker turned fintech pioneer whose intriguing career journey has taken him from the bustling trading floors of the early 2000s to the cutting edge of AI in finance. Jason recounts his winding path from a philosophy major in small-town Poughkeepsie, New York, to becoming a Wall Street trader and, later, a leader in tech for trading. We explore his transition to automated trading as floors shifted online trader jobs contracted and his move into roles in finance education and media. Jason offers a captivating look into the evolution of markets and trading strategies, from the dynamics of floor versus electronic exchanges to analyzing sentiment shifts through media platforms and tools like CNN's iconic Fear and Greed Index, which he helped develop. Across various sectors of finance, Jason's experiences highlight the human element alongside technical progress.   SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Jason Meshnick talks about his transition from being a market maker on Wall Street to becoming a fintech expert. We discuss the changes in trading desks from the early 2000s to the present, emphasizing the shift towards automation and a reduced number of traders. Jason describes his unconventional career path, moving from a philosophy major to a Wall Street trader, and his eventual move into fintech. Jason shares insights into the development of CNN's Fear and Greed Index, including the collaborative efforts and practical constraints faced during its creation. We explore the shift from floor trading to electronic markets and how enduring principles of market trading continue to influence career paths in finance. Jason recounts his personal and professional journey, including his move to Boulder, Colorado, and his involvement with the CFA Society. We dive into the intricacies of building decision trees for financial data analysis, comparing their transparency and reliability to large language models. Jason reflects on his editorial role at TheStreet.com and the importance of market sentiment analysis in shaping financial media platforms. We discuss the role of experience and a deep understanding of market nuances in successful investment strategies. Jason explains the seven indicators used in CNN's Fear and Greed Index and how this tool helps both sophisticated and retail investors make informed decisions.   PLUS: Whenever you're ready... here are three ways I can help you prepare for retirement:  1.  Listen to the Market Call Show Podcast or Watch on Youtube One of my favorite things to do is to talk with smart people about investing, financial planning, and how to live a full life.  I share this on my podcast the Market Call Show.  To watch on Youtube  – Click here   2.  Read the Financial Freedom Blueprint:  7 Steps to Accelerate Your Path to Prosperity If you're ready to accelerate your path to prosperity, the Financial Freedom Blueprint lays out a proven system for planning and investing to secure your financial independence. You can get a personalized signed hardcover copy – Click here 3.  Work with me one-on-one If you would like to talk with me about planning and investing for your future. – Click here TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)   Louis: Jason Meshnick how are you? Jason: I'm doing great, Lewis. It's so great to see you. Louis: I know I'm so glad to finally have you on the podcast. You know, just knowing you for so many years and you know, knowing that you have so much knowledge out there with regard to investing and just your overall creativity, I had to have you on and I'm so glad that you came on. Jason: Well, and one thing as you know from from our relationship, I've always gotten so much out of talking to you and I always learn something just through our conversations, and I feel like by the time this podcast is over, I will have five new ideas to to go after and try to figure out what to do, how to make them all reality oh god, I hope so, I hope so. Louis: it's all about the ideas you know exactly. It was funny. I asked you to send me a send me your bio and I've known you for a long time and we met years and years ago at a CFA meeting I think we were both on a board for the CFA Colorado or Denver chapter and and since then we've worked together in many capacities. But I didn't know a lot of things about you that I should have known just reading your bio. I knew that you spent 20 years in the fintech world and I didn't know that you were also working on some AI investment analysis, which I'd like to learn more about, and that you really have a lot of passion for educating. And I guess your coworkers asked you to write a newsletter. I had no idea about that and you know now what is this about. Vampires are rich. Why are vampires so rich? Jason: That was one of my favorite things that I wrote. Yeah, if you want to cover that now, we can, or we can talk later. Louis: I think we'll circle back to that, but I was a little what's that about. But yeah, and now you're doing some teaching at CU Boulder, teaching finance. We've done a little bit of lecturing together at the university level DU and things like that and I've always enjoyed watching you teach because you seem to captivate the kids. Well, they're not kids, they're young adults with your style. So I'd like to learn a little bit more about what you're doing there. And you are a Wall Street trader and market maker and there's a lot of things that you know about microstructure and investor psychology that I want to kind of touch on too. So, but the big thing is understanding that you were involved with the CNN, that popular feed and fear and greed index back in 2012, I guess that was put together. So I don't know. Maybe what we could do is talk a little bit about your background. I mean, I kind of covered it a little bit, but just maybe you can tell me a little bit about you know, share with the audience, your you know how you got in this business and kind of what's been your progression in this business. Jason: Yeah, so my guess is that everybody says this, but I came to it from a slightly different path, not that not that, you know, I didn't get out of college and immediately go to Wall Street, that's. That's a pretty normal path, right? But I was a philosophy major and I'm far from a philosopher. But I think what I took away from my undergrad as a philosophy major was just sort of a way of thinking, right, as opposed to being sort of a business person thinking only about money, it's more about thinking about other kinds of things and things that drive people and being able to draw from communication and trying to understand what people think and how they think and why they think, and I think it was one of the things that really fascinated me. Also, being a child of the 80s, you know Wall Street was so important. There's so many movies about it, right from from the Wall Street movie to I don't know. It seemed like every other movie that came out was about how to make millions of dollars on Wall Street, and so, of course, I wanted to be part of that. Having grown up in sort of a backwater, poughkeepsie, new York, I always wanted to go live in the big city, yeah, so that was sort of my start, was coming at it from kind of a weird direction and I ended up immediately going to work for well, a firm that no longer exists for a couple of reasons, but it was the trading arm of a New York specialist firm. So the specialists were downstairs on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange and my boss was one of their customers and he just worked upstairs in their clearing division and he was trading his own money. He had been a floor broker for 20 years, owned two seats, sold his seats, did pretty well on them, and then decided that he was just going to live the rest of his life as a trader. He brought his son in and then eventually I was working as a runner so you know fourteen thousand dollars a year and just wanted exposure, just wanted to be part of the action. Right, I love the action. I was so excited about just being there, the history I love the history of things. Um, I probably should have been a history major and so, just being in that environment, I ended up getting picked up because I was. I was pretty cheap, right, so they didn't have to pay me much and I ended up working and really falling in love with being a trader and learning about how the market worked and how floor brokers could help make these trades. We had a network of 20 floor brokers across the New York Stock Exchange and what was then called the Amex, and some of the regional exchanges too, so that we could trade and we'd strategize every morning and then make our buy and sell decisions and then, throughout the day, update them as needed. I'd like to say that we were the high frequency traders of the time, even though our frequency wasn't that fast, but we were sitting on both sides of the bid and the offer. Louis: Boy. Jason: times have changed, huh offer Boy times have changed huh yeah, I mean that's yeah, I like to say. When I, when I started in the business, there were people there who'd been on the floor in 1929. And so much of the floor of the New York Stock Exchange looked the same as it did in 19,. You know, if you, if you were to go, take Jesse Livermore and drop him, you know from 1929 and just drop him on the floor in 1992 when I started, he'd have been like I don't know what these TV things are that are all around. He wouldn't have even had that word, but otherwise he'd have been able to run into a crowd and know exactly what to do. And by the time I left in 2002, well, there wasn't even a crowd, right? I mean, everything was different about the floor of the exchange. I was a market maker on a fully electronic stock exchange, so the principles were all the same, but everything else had changed. It was so different. Louis: Oh, that's a big part of what I wanted to talk to you about that the principles are all the same. So, because I was just listening back to some of our, or looking back at some of our conversations just to prepare for this, and we've had a lot of conversations in the past where you were really outlining like I want to capture what I saw, those principles that I saw on the floor, and I want to capture them today and that's kind of driven a lot of things that you've done. So maybe maybe you can tell me like just a handful of what those principles are that you've noticed are like still the same now that probably will never change. Jason: Well, so I'll caveat this by saying I've been out of the markets for a number of years, right, so I left, I left trading in 2002. And then I was still, you know, still kind of a pretty active trader, investor for the next 10 years or so. But then life gets in the way and I'm just very busy, and so I've sort of shifted my focus in a number of ways and I'm honestly really interested in analysis now and thinking about market sentiment and what investors are doing and how investors think about the market. And I now, when I trade, it's opportunistically right, I'm not in there every day, I'm not trying to make eighths or even pennies. Louis: I guess we should probably. Oh, I'm sorry to interrupt you there. Jason: Go ahead. Louis: I was just gonna say I guess we should probably back up a little bit and talk a little bit about, like more about your career progression, because you moved into from trading into fintech and, and from fintech now to working at the streetcom for and as an editor, so, and which to me makes a hundred percent sense. Um, just from what I know from your talent, your talent stack, so maybe you can kind of finish that progression a little bit. So, to where you are now, yeah, sorry, yeah, totally. Jason: So my progression is really. I mean, there's there's a couple things that run through the entire thing and I think a big part of it is analysis and being excited about, about thinking about the markets right, about being being in some ways just part of the culture of it right. So that's been the big thing that's run through my entire career. But in 2002, my wife and I we weren't married at the time we were thinking about you know where will we end up, and we decided that we either end up in New Jersey or we could move somewhere that we wanted to live. So we did a search all around the country and decided we just sort of threw a dart at the at the wall and said Colorado seems pretty nice. So we ended up here in Colorado and it's been the best move. Louis: Man, that was a lucky dart throw. If you ask me, it's a lucky dart throw, I think. Jason: I think it was guided by my wife's hand. She may have said I'll take that dart and I'm going to place it right here just at the foot of the Rocky Mountains. So she'd been out here and visited and said Boulder is going to be the place where Jason will be happy and we'll make this happen. And so we moved out here without jobs. I quit my job as a market maker in June of 2002. And the market was changing so much at that time it was definitely becoming harder to make money, and so I was ready for a change. I was ready to do something different. You know, when I left, there were 10 traders on my desk and probably another 30, 20, 30 on our over-the-counter desk. And when I went back, seven or eight years later and I'll get to this, but when, when I was working in FinTech and I went back, visited my old trading desk, there were three people and a really large computer and, rather than taking directional bets on the market, they were doing arbitrage. And they were. They were, they were working the order flow and they were figuring out, based on the order flow, how long or short they were going to be. You know, sort of using quantitative methods to understand. If they felt the market was going up and they were going to end up being more short and more short, they would have to think about the Delta to the market and try to get long ahead of those people so they could be selling to them. So it became in some ways probably a much more intellectually engaging thing than just sitting saying, oh someone just sold me 1,000 shares, I have to get out of it now. You were thinking ahead of the market. In many ways it was really cool. I probably would have liked it a lot, but it just became a really different animal. It was much more arbitrage as opposed to directional trading, which is really what I knew. So we moved to Colorado without jobs and in doing that that's when I met you, lewis is. I was pretty engaged with the CFA Society despite not having a CFA I'll throw that out there. I'd also just finished my MBA at NYU. That counts. So, I think they let me in, but that was about it, and they let me even onto the board. Louis: Yeah, yeah, you're a very likable guy, so it was a pretty easy decision. They're like he doesn't have a CFA, but he's a pretty cool guy. We'll let him in anyway. Jason: I think he also said this is a guy that we can make do all the all the programming. We can make him call all the all the people that we don't want to call and try to organize meetings. And they thought I was an event planner, which it turns out I'm not. I'm just not a good event planner. My wife can tell you that Actually, lois, you did kind of the same. We were organizing all the CMT meetings. Louis: Oh yeah. Jason: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's, let's go call some people, um, yeah, but so so it took a while and I ended up finding this job here in boulder, uh, for a company called wall street on demand and for those who are not familiar with wall street on demand, it has a new name um, it became market, uh, no, became wall street on. It was wall street on demand. Then it became market on demand once I, once market bought us and then eventually it became market on demand once market bought us, and then eventually it became market digital, when they decided that it was really time to think more broadly than just web and think broadly across all digital formats video, et cetera, and advertising. And I stayed there for 19 years. Where, louis, you touched on the AI side of what I did and so this is one of my big jokes is that I like to say that I was the world's most widely read analyst, if not the best, and the reason why I say that is because over the 19 years that I was at that company, I built something like I don't know 200 different. I call them only because of today's terminology and the way that people talk about markets now, about technology now. I call these AI related, and they really are simple. They're very much rules-based AI, so sort of traditional AI, not these large language models that we have now that are in some ways more sophisticated but really not as good. So what I was building were these big decision trees, and these decision trees were things where you would, using your financial knowledge, you would say, okay, I'm looking at some financial data around a company. What do we need to know? Well, let's start with the valuation. Is the stock what's the PE ratio? Is it a high PE ratio or a low PE ratio? How do you define a high PE ratio? Is a high PE compared to its average for the last five years, or is it the highest in its industry? Right, you can look at things cross-sectionally or historically, right, but both ways time-based or versus peers, and so we would do things like that and we would chop up the market and try to understand. You know which stocks were good or bad, but it wasn't necessarily for an investment perspective, right? This was because what we were doing was for the Schwab's and TD Ameritrade's and all those companies. We were building the news and research portions of their website, and so I and my team were providing that research, and so a lot of the texts that you would see on that site was completely dynamically generated. So, very simple, rules-based AI. And I say it's better than large language models for AI, because large language models you never really know what you're going to get. It's a bit of a black box, right. So what we could do is I would create text that was locked down. I knew exactly what it was going to say. I didn't know what the data was that was going into it, right, I didn't know if Apple had a high PE ratio or a low PE ratio, but I had rules around defining what was high and low. And so when I would go to the compliance departments at Schwab or TD Ameritrade or Fidelity, et cetera we worked with all the US brokers, many of the Canadian brokers, australia, others I would go to the compliance departments and they would say, well, how do I know that you're not going to say something silly or that's incorrect? And I said, well, I'm going to give you the entire decision tree and you're going to be able to look at the decision tree and understand what it says. So the only way that my model can be wrong is if I have a bug and there are bugs all over the internet, so I'm as fallible as anybody else, but we're going to do our best not to have those. And then, secondly, if the data is wrong and if the data is wrong, well it's wrong all over the website too, and we're going to fix that. But generally, 99.9% of the time, for 99.9% of the stocks, what we say is going to be accurate. It's going to be correct, it is going to be as unbiased as possible, because I'm not trying to tell you, as a value investor or growth investor or whatever, what you should do. I'm just trying to describe the various aspects of the stock. I wasn't there to give you a buy, sell hold recommendation. I was purely there to help you, as a self-directed investor, understand more about the stock, about the company. You know you brought up something that's really interesting about that. Louis: I mean, I have to. You know you're talking about large language models and it's a little bit of a black box. We don't really quite know, and you're dealing with these big decision trees, or you were at that time and it was traceable, like you could trace the logic which made me think, okay, we have data and the data can be right or wrong, and then you have the logic, and the logic can be right or wrong. And I think that's one of the things that I always have a little. I'm having a little bit of an issue with with some of the AI is the logic element of it, because you like how much of it is curve, fitting what is real behind it, so we could use it. I had a tech executive tell me one time that the big thing with AI is it can help us with speed and it can help us with accuracy if we use it correctly. But it's not necessarily like you still need human thought. You still need that ultimate human element to it. That's my personal opinion on that. But the fact that you were using decision trees early on, you know that and just to get information, that way you were speeding the process for the investor, basically. Jason: Right. Louis: Like they would spend a lot of time looking for all those things. But you systematically sped it up, which is a a big thing for and we and we all have that now that's and it's, there's just like different flavors of it, um, so, uh, it's, it's that whole. It's a whole. Nother topic we can get into a little bit later. But I, I, uh, I remember you talking about that when you were doing working on those projects, um, wondering where it would go next. Um, you know, as far as that goes, but getting back to your, getting back to your, your story, let's get back to your story. Yeah, sorry, keep getting off track. Yeah, that's okay, yeah. Jason: So while I was at that job I did, I did a number of things. I mean it was really, it was really an exciting job in so many ways. But the two big things that I did were really this you know, running the natural language generation product right. This thing we called it smart text, um, and so that's that ai thing. But then the other thing that I was so excited about was doing education right and and our. So this started back in 2006 or 7, um, I started doing brown bag lunches where I would just put together a presentation and teach our developers and designers and engineers all about everything they needed to know about investing, not so they could go out and make a million dollars, but rather so that when they were building the tools that we were all using, they understood their subject matter right, that they could be engaged with the topic and identify with the end user and really understand why a PE ratio mattered or why a chart mattered. Simple thing, like in design, you'll notice that there's a lot of white space on many pages and they talk about that as being good design. It's actually a really bad design for investors and the reason is well, depending on the type of investors, but for slightly more active investors, engaged investors, what they want is information dense things, and so I would help steer our design team to create things that were a little bit more information dense, an example being a chart, a price chart. You don't want to have to scroll up and down too much to be able to read your price chart on your Schwab account. You want to be able to type in NVIDIA and load up a couple of indicators that you want to see. Put your MACD on and then MACD is a lower indicator, maybe an RSI, maybe whatever Put those things on there and be able to, in one view, understand the trend, momentum, volume and volatility from that stock right. That was another thing that we did when we rebuilt Schwab's charts. I'm kind of proud to say that Yahoo actually stole this, but we broke the indicators out. Previous big charts started this. They said indicators are either separated out as upper indicators or lower indicators, and that doesn't tell you anything, and I'll credit John Bollinger. I learned all this from him is really you know, people should understand what goes into the indicators. They should understand as much of the calculation as possible, right, what the inputs are and what it's giving, what information it's giving you, right, and then separate those out into different sort of you know I'm using the term factors very loosely but into the different factors of technical analysis. So, is it trend, is it momentum-based, is it volume, volatility you can come up with others as well but, right, where does it fit? And if you're looking, if you put a bunch of indicators on a chart and it turns out that they're all trend indicators, well, you really have one indicator and so you're not getting a full picture. So go put some momentum indicators on there to understand the speed and whether the trend is about to be exhausted or not. So it's things like that that I really wanted to help both the end user of our products as well as the the, the person who was building the products, understand so. So I ended up writing for about three or four years. So we started that in 2007, but it was. They asked me to put it on hold after a while cause it was taking away from a lot of my work. And then, in 2018, our CEO came to me and she said you know, you used to do this, these brown bag lunches. I would really like it if you would just write. Just write a newsletter for the whole company. The question of the week, so Fridays. I'd ask the question, and it might be how many? How many stocks are there in the S&P 500? And I haven't looked at the number recently, but I think the number is still 501, right, it might even be higher, but there's only 500 companies in the S&P 500. And so that's the distinction. There's 500 companies, but some companies have multiple classes of stock that may be in the S&P. It might be 505 now I can't remember. I have not looked in a long time, but that was effectively the answer, and so it became just a really fun thing to write the answer, and so it became just a really fun thing to write. Yeah, so teaching people about vampires right, became a way of telling them. Why are vampires so rich? It's simple They've been investing for hundreds of years and so they've had time to let their money compound. Assuming that Vlad the Impaler, the first vampire, he was a prince. Let's just put a number on that $10,000 in today's money. What does $10,000 grow to over 500 years? It grows to trillions of dollars. And then, if you spend 1% of that every year, how much money are vampires spending? Today, vampires are spending billions of dollars. Vampires are probably supporting our economy. Louis: They've got to be the richest people in the world. It's like puts vampires, yeah yeah, it puts elon musk to shame, I mean really so maybe elon's a vampire yeah, you never know, maybe a little similar, I don't know. That's that's wild. Well, um, so you have this creative side to you. That's that's driven that. And then how did you get um, like, was it just a natural progression for you to do what you're doing now? Jason: or maybe you should tell us a little bit about what you're doing now yeah, so so let's get to what I'm doing now, because that's important and I know that, um, they'll be watching this and they'll they'll kill me if I don't talk about what I'm doing now, because they also really like it. Um, I'm having a lot of fun. So, you know, you go through ups and downs in your career and I definitely there were times when I absolutely loved trading and absolutely hated, and that might be the same day. I might love and hate trading. Louis: In. Jason: FinTech it was. I might love a year and hate the next year and, you know, love the next year for that. It was project to project and here you know right now what we're doing. So I work for I'm currently the managing editor of the street pro and so so you are probably familiar with the street. Jim Cramer founded it back in I don't know 1997 or 1998. It was really the first, the first and best of its type where you could come and get financial news and information. And then, not long after they started the street, they brought, they created something called real money where they brought in people like Helene Meisler and and Doug Cass and they would create something that was more of a subscription product but more of a newsletter, newsletter product where Helene would write top stocks is what it became and Helene would write her brand of you know market sentiment analysis and it was really great. And Jim Cramer left about two years ago and I've never met Cramer. I've heard him speak before but I don't know Cramer, don't know a lot about him. But I'll say this is a business that was 25 years old or is 25 years old now, and it's going through a lot of change. So we're trying to figure out what will it look like in the future. And one of the big things I love this I quote it all the time but Barry Ritholtz was one of our. I believe he was a street contributor at one point. Barry Ritholtz has gone on to become a Bloomberg contributor and have his own money management firm, but earlier in his career, I'd say, he made his name at the street, as did a lot of people, and so he calls the street the Motown of Finance and he says that the Jim Cramer was sort of this I think the name is Barry Gordy character who you know sort of larger than life in many ways, and he brought people in, brought people in and he made them stars right, and so we did the same thing, or he did that at the street, and so we're in the process now of trying to do that again. We have great contributors. They're all wonderful and they provide really great perspectives on the market, and sometimes they disagree and sometimes they agree. I asked a few of them to write about GameStop recently and it was really great to see the kinds of things that I got. But we want to get back and we want to make these people, we want to make our contributors, who are such great analysts, stars again, right. So we're trying to change a lot of things that we do in the business. In the past it was really Jim Cramer. The last five years, I'd say, jim Cramer became our number one star. I want Helene and Doug and Sarge and Rev Shark and I could go through the whole list Chris Versace I want them all to be stars too, and they want to be stars and they are because they're so good. So we're working at how we can do that, how we can elevate the content, not just to make the contributor stars, but really to showcase how good they are as we go and help more investors to be self-directed investors, be more successful in their trading and investing. And I say we have two different types of products, really Our value add. If you are a trader, a self-directed trader, you might spend your time on Doug Cass's community, right? So Doug has his daily diary. Doug's a hedge fund manager. He's out there from three o'clock in the morning. He's sending us stuff. It's crazy. The editors have to be there editing and putting it up from. They start at 5.30. So the editors are in there at 5.30 in the morning putting Doug's ideas up all the way through the end of the trading day, and then in the lower half of that page is a community where we have many, many people from the community, some of which I won't say any of their names, but some of which are fairly big names in finance and investing. We know who they are. On the site they really the community ends up feeding on itself and providing great ideas just among each other. There's one guy who talks a lot about cryptocurrencies. We don't have a lot of cryptocurrency content on the site. We're working, we're going to be adding some, but this one person alone actually provides some of the best crypto content I've ever written, and he's paying us right now, at least for now us right now, at least for now. And so the other products that we have. We have where you can get trading ideas or investing ideas. We have some people who are a little bit more technical focused, some who are more fundamental focused. We have one person who does really well providing dividend ideas. Another person is really great at more fundamental, value-based ideas, but then we have a whole portfolio. You can come to us and we have Chris Versace runs our pro portfolio, where we help investors understand not only how to put together a portfolio and they can just copy this entire portfolio but, the thing I love about it most, every week Chris writes a weekly update talking about what he sees in the market, what's coming up, economic things that are happening. But then he goes through all 30 holdings. He tells you the investment thesis you know I'm big on the investment thesis, lewis right, you should have a thesis, you should know why you're investing something and you should update it frequently. Right, chris updates the investment thesis every week. And then he tells you what his target price is and his panic point, his stop right, where he's going to realize that his thesis is incorrect and he's going to re-evaluate, probably sell the position. And then he just goes through and gives you sort of a weekly update and says, yeah, here's what happened in NVIDIA. Jensen Wan was out doing whatever he did. He spoke to these people. So that's what we're doing and the product is great and we're, you know, really excited. Now we have a lot of energy around what we're doing and how we're, how we're rebuilding, um, building I keep saying rebuilding like really we're taking what we had, which was a solid product, and we're just building off of it. We have, uh, later this month this will be the first time I've kind of mentioned this Um month this will be the first time I've kind of mentioned this Our marketing team doesn't even know but later this month we're doing a roundup, or we're actually calling it the quarterly call. So this will be the end of every quarter. Now we're going to have four of our contributors come on and really just talk about what they see in the market and have kind of a little panel discussion, and so that'll be really exciting, but it's things like that that we want to do. Louis: Yeah, it's good to hear the actual real time discussion, you know, because you get more color about it. But I love what you said about the Motown or the. Who is it? Who said a Barry Ritholtz? Jason: Barry Ritholtz. Louis: Yeah, I said that. I mean I thought I had so many like visions in my head because, you know, I'm a musician too and I I'm thinking about motown. I fell in love with motown as a young kid. My parents listened to it and the first thing that I thought about was that these, a lot of these people that were, uh, involved in motown, they were, they were completely isolated from the music industry. So so you know, you can find a lot of talent outside of, people that are like right in the mainstream of the music and of the Wall Street, kind of normative Wall Street. I mean you have to do something different really to be unique like that. And sometimes I think groupthink hurts Wall Street. In fact, I was just telling my wife this morning. I got out of the shower and I said you know what, in a way, wall Street is kind of like not even a thing anymore. Like you know, it's like I don't even think of Wall Street anymore as Wall Street. I mean last time I was there it didn't even seem like Wall Street to me. I mean it's still, it's still a thing mentally, but it's not. It's like I really think it's time for Motown. Jason: I think you guys are right in the thick of what we should be doing, because there's so many great thinkers that I run into who are not anywhere near the center of Wall Street, quote, unquote. So that's, yeah, one of the things I really want to steal comes from Chicago. So Morningstar in their quant reports. So if you have a Schwab account or any of these, they pretty much all have Morningstar's reports. These aren't the quant reports, I'm sorry, it's actually the ones that are handwritten by analysts, but on page I don't know two or three they have a module that says bulls say and bears say and they go through the bullish case of a stock and the bearish case of a stock, and that's something that I want to institute everywhere. Everybody should be with everything right. You talk politics, you should have a. You know what are the positives, what are the negatives. Whoever your candidate is doesn't matter. They have positive, they have negatives, that's right. You know your friends have positive, negatives. Like everything has a positive and a negative, and you have to look at both sides of the story, especially they say you shouldn't marry your investments Right. Know what the downsides are, Know what the risks are with everything you do. Louis: Wow, there's a lot there we could go into. Jason: I know yeah, as far as the no, no, not politics. Believe me, I mean we're staying away from politics. Louis: Yeah, we're staying away from that. You know, it's more like the I keep thinking of the narrative versus the numbers debate. I always say that I'm more interested in the numbers than the narrative. Like I start with the numbers and then go for the narrative and I think the older I get and the more I've seen, the more I realize that it's not the narrative necessarily, it's just understanding as much as you possibly can about what is true. It's hard to do and so much of investing is qualitative. You know, I mean you know my background. I do a lot of quant factor stuff and all that and that's really helpful in kind of keeping you honest. But at the end of the day, when I look at the stocks that have done really, really well for me, or macro trades like futures type oriented trades, it's been because I had some piece of knowledge and understanding about something that I just knew with a high conviction that was true and I stayed with it and it made a lot of money. So that is really hard. I don't think the quant sometimes leads you there, but it may not necessarily. It's not usually the end, like the end all be all, and a lot of times if you look at the best quantitative stuff it tends to turn over a ton. Right, it's like like momentum. Well, you know, you could say like, okay, I'm going to run momentum screens on stocks and the best parameter set is going to be me like turning over quite a bit. But then after tax and reality in the real world, you're really not making that as much as you would think, whereas you might find something that's gaining momentum that no one's talking about, like I bought not to talk about. I shouldn't talk about specific names right now, but there's a particular stock that I bought where I understood what was happening. It did come up in a momentum screen. It was a very small company at the time and then it just went ballistic. That now did I know it was going to ballistic? No, not to that degree. You know, I didn't think it was going to go up. You know 500% in, you know three months. But it's one of those things where you, if you know something, there's so much more to the narrative, so you go into the Motown aspect of things. There's value in that. We, we numbers are becoming a commodity, almost right. Everybody can get all these numbers and we can, we can move things around. Anybody can go on chat, gpt and, you know, pull, you know I get certain things. So I, you know, I don't know I'm becoming more of a qualitative guy the older I get. Is that that's weird? Jason: I have a theory on that. Let me know what you think. But I think that you are able to become a qualitative guy now because you have been a quantitative guy for so long and so because everything that you do there's, you know, there's a famous saying, it comes from consulting. I think you can't manage what you can't measure, and so everything that you've done as a quantitative person has been to measure, even when you run that quant screen and you get a list of stocks and you know that this list of stocks is going to turn over at the same time. You probably know well, this is going to turn over. But let's pick on NVIDIA. Nvidia is on the list right now and, because of these other things that I know through my experience, nvidia may come off in two weeks, but it's probably going to come back on in a month. I should just hold it Right, yeah, and so I think that you've spent so much time in the markets and it comes down to the word is experience. Right and that's why you hire a financial advisor. Or you hire, or you take a subscription to the Street Pro, or you want to get the experience of other people, especially as you're learning. Louis: Yeah, yeah. Jason: So now you can be. I was just going to say one thing. One thing is you can be sort of a core satellite where you can take your core investing, and maybe you want to be self-directed and buy a portfolio of ETFs, or you want to give that money to your financial advisor, give it to you, lewis, and then, with sort of the satellite funds, play money or whatever. You use your own experience Maybe it's in your own industry or whatever it is. You're trying to add that extra bit of alpha right and have fun maybe, but but keep yourself intellectually engaged. You have, you know, sort of the core of your portfolio over here and then kind of the rest of it where you can do things with as well. Louis: Yeah, I totally, I totally agree with that. So you know, this is just kind of getting me into this the fear and greed concept. You know you got involved with the fear and greed. I'm not, I'd like to hear the story about how you got involved in and what you, what you did in that. But when I think about the fear and greed index, I always think about that fish that's in the bowl and doesn't realize that he's in water and but you know, but if he steps outside and looks at he's like wow, I'm in water, right. That's kind of what sentiment is to me. It's like we're part of the sentiment, like we are, we're the observer. It's like the Heisenberg principle, like what we look at, we change, right, and that's sentiment, and fear and greed is kind of like a great overall, you know, easy to understand way of looking at that. But I guess I want to let's start off with your story, like how did you get into the fear and? Jason: greed project and what, what. What was your progression through that? So yeah, I mean, after coming from Wall Street, I'll tell a really quick story because I think this it's in it's in the article that I wrote too. But this story is a story from business school and I can't remember if the numbers are correct, but they're approximately correct and the timing is approximately correct. I was in business school, part-time, at night. I was working as a market maker during the day and then at night I was at NYU taking a class and this class was a valuation class and they asked us we had to come up with, we had to do a discounted cashflow analysis of a stock, and each group got to select whatever stock they wanted and I proposed to my group let's pick JDS Uniphase, because it was one of. It was the NVIDIA of its day. Oh yeah, hopefully NVIDIA will have a better future than JDSU did. But my group was all they said absolutely, let's do that one. And the stock was trading at I don't remember exactly, but probably about $165. Okay, and so we sit down and we do our analysis and we're doing discounted cashflow analysis and one of the big inputs to DCF is understanding the growth metrics right and forecasting growth. And forecasting growth means looking back historically, figuring out how fast the company has been growing and just saying you know, is it going to speed up or is it going to slow down? Eventually they all slow down. It will slow down, but you have to figure out how long that's going to take. So we did the analysis and we figured out it would slow down, I don't know, over 10 years or something. Something pretty reasonable, probably pretty generous as well, and we came up with a value Again. Remember the stock's trading at $165. We came up with a value of $2.25. And we looked at it and we said can't be, can't be. We learned in our last class the market's efficient, this is all wrong. I don't know. We did something wrong and so we went back and we now this time we went crazy. We're like this stock's going to speed up its growth. It's going to, instead of growing at 50% per year like it has been, it's going to grow at 100% forever. And we came up with a value of $225, right, and so the stock gets added to the S&P or maybe it was when they confirmed that it would be and the stock jumps to $225. It jumps to $235, I think was the high I sell my stock at like $225. Louis: And so we were right, that was a good trade. Jason: Good trade. And then we go and we present our research to our professor. And this is where it's really funny. The professor, who was so outrageously smart, could do any math problem in his head. But he's looking at us, he's laughing at us. He's like really, you think this thing is worth $2.20? We're like, yeah, here's the research, here's what we did. And he's just laughing at us. And then he says how could this company possibly be worth more than Apple? And Apple at the time was trading at $19, which, split adjusted, is probably something like negative 10 cents. And he said Apple has $16 in cash on its books and, whatever he's like, Apple is definitely worth more than JDS, Unipay. And, of course, this guy's probably retired on a private island somewhere. But what I took away from this whole story oh, and the other thing is we were right on both sides. We were right with $225 call because the stock traded to $235. And within two years the stock was trading at something like $2. So we were right on both ends. And so what I took from that was I'm not a great analyst and I'm not a great forecaster. I'm especially not a good forecaster. Okay, but what I can do is I can look at data and I can back into things and I can understand well, if I look at, if I calculate, if I back into, how do I get to $165 or $200 for JDS Uniphase? I look and I say, well, the market has really high expectations of this company and those expectations are nothing but sentiment. Nobody knows. Louis: I think that's all you need, though, jason, I actually don't think you need to be a great forecast Like that's really all you need. So, cause, if you know those extremes, you avoid mistakes, because the more I do this, the more I realize that's what it's about. You know, if you're going to put X number of units, and risk units if you will, in your portfolio, if you don't make a lot of mistakes and you compound reasonably, you're going to do great. It's just like reading. You know Warren Buffett always talks about read chapter eight and chapter 20 of the intelligent investor, which everyone should do, by the way. In fact, I'm set I send that book to clients and just say read this. You know that's what all it is about. I mean, that's basically what it's about what you just talked about right there. You don't really need to be a great forecaster. You just need to avoid a lot of mistakes and have a reasonable amount of diversification, not too much. And yeah, I mean you hear about people that have made like great calls consistently, and then the more you learn about them, the more you realize that there was something else part of the story. You know what I'm saying. There was another part of the story that you didn't really hear about, and a lot of it boils down to not avoiding mistakes, having discipline, risk management, things like that, but anyway, I got you off your topic. Jason: It's all risk. Yeah no, yeah, no, no, yeah, and it's. It's important to cut me off too, because I can. I can talk about certain things for too long, but I'll just. I'll just cut right to your question, which was fear and greed, yeah, yeah. And so how did I get to that? Literally, I, from that point in about 2000,. You know, I got much more interested in technical analysis and and, and I started thinking I'm not so much like a stock picker and I'm not so much into, you know, the MACD and the RSI. I'm much more quantitative. That's my interest in technicals. Technicals really helped me become more quantitative and more interested in looking at the big picture, understanding how to measure the big picture, and so I started looking at indicators and things that people like Ned Davis was doing. Right, I, I a big fan of Ned Davis, ned Davis's work. There's some other providers that were like that, sentiment traders Another one. I like all those, I like what they do and I started trying to replicate. You know, you don't know what their secret sauce is, although actually Ned Davis has a really good book. I'm looking at my bookshelf somewhere out there when Ned Davis's book is being right or making money. But then his chief strategist wrote another book where they actually go in and they tell you how to build a, build their, one of their sentiment indicators that has nine components to it. I was messing around with that, trying to figure out, trying to understand these indicators and understand the signals that they gave. And I hadn't around. That same time, cnn was one of our clients at what was then Wall Street On Demand and our CEO was out talking to them and he was talking to Lex Harris, who was their editor in chief, and Lex said you know, I don't know what this is, but I want to build something called the Fear and Greed Index. Can you help me? And Jim, our CEO, came back and he came to my team and he said so CNN has this kind of crazy idea. They want to build something called the Fear and Greed Index. What do you think has this kind of crazy idea? They want to build something called the fear and greed index? What do you think? And everyone on the team pushed away from the table. They're like what a bad idea. And I was left sitting there going they thought it was a bad idea. Yeah, they just you know they didn't get it. It wasn't what they do. I thought you were going to say mic drop. Louis: I literally thought you were going to say mic drop. Everybody said that's a great idea, let's jump on it. That surprises me. They looked at it. Jason: Yeah, they were like well, and they didn't know how to do it right. It wasn't what they were interested in. The team all had very different kinds of backgrounds, and I was the only one that had that more market-related background. The others were really more analysts Smart guys, great guys, but much more like. They could probably pick a stock better than I can, but they cannot tell you if we're in a bull market or a bear market. So I'm sitting there saying this is the greatest opportunity ever. And so they got me on the phone with CNN, with Lex, a day or two later, and we just started putting together ideas and Lex basically said look, I don't know what this thing is. You kind of know what I want to do. I just want something that really represents that quote that Warren Buffett says, which is you should be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful. So what, what is that? What does that look like? And so I just went and built it. Luckily, they gave me Jim. Our CEO's son was also a statistics major at Yale, and so for his summer internship that year, he sat with me and we went through and took all the indicators that I had put together and we did a principal component analysis, which is really important because you want to make sure, just like we said earlier, when you're looking at a stock chart, you want to make sure that your indicators aren't all trend indicators or all momentum indicators. The same thing, we want to make sure that each of the indicators, within fear and greed, didn't step on one another right, that they weren't saying the same thing, or really just that they worked well together, that they were each complementary, right? There were a couple indicators that I wanted to include that just didn't make it for budget reasons. Cnn is a media company. Media companies don't have huge budgets these days, so I couldn't do things like market valuation, s&p 500 valuation, or we wanted to use the, because by this point, market had bought us, and so I wanted to use the credit default swap index and I could only get end of day CVS data, not intraday, and so it just didn't fit with what we were doing. Um, so there were, there were some indicators that we left out that really would have been perfect and, um, you know, later on I got I got to use for other purposes, but not for the fear and greed index. But I got to use for other purposes, but not for the fear and greed index. But yeah, right now you know the fear and greed index, the seven indicators that are there, we selected one that is purely just the S&P 500, right, normalized. So we understand if it's sort of fear, you know, fearful or greedy. But then we have two that are breadth indicators. So how broad is the advance or decline? And is that moving in concert with the market or against the market? Then we have two that are options related the put-call ratio and the VIX. And then we have two that are bond market related One that compares the spread and yields between low-quality junk bonds and high-quality investment-grade bonds, as that spread is tightening. You see that investors are, you know they're more, they're seeking out risk because they think that they can get better returns. And then the last one is where we compare the returns on stocks to the return on bonds over a 20-day rolling period, total return as well. So for all these underlying indicators we're using ETFs. So this is actually something that can be replicated by anybody, but there are a lot of mechanics and calculations that go into it on the back end which make it. You know, if you are going to calculate it yourself, you got to be pretty sophisticated and be and have a pretty decent data feed. Yeah. Louis: Well, I love that. You know that was put in a scale that made sense and a categorization that made sense. It almost kind of makes sense the way that you did. It is like extreme fear, fear, neutral greed, extreme greed. These are things that we can understand and this is, I think, one of your biggest talents, actually. I think one of your biggest talents actually. You know, like you had said, we were looking for, we did principal component analysis, but we were looking for things that worked well together and complementary. As a quant geek, I would have just said non-correlated, you know or not. I would have used like big, long names of there's some statistical names that are you know to describe, that are like really long and stupid, sounding like to make no sense. I love the fact that you like that, you, you that's the. That is a great skill and I think to be able to take something that is complicated and make it accessible was one of the biggest, I guess, wins from this and it also helps people understand themselves, in my opinion, like if somebody goes and they look at this and they say, okay, right now I'm looking at the website. It says I'm on cnncom markets, fear and greed. It says it's got a number 48 and it says we're neutral but kind of tilting towards fear. So tell me a little bit about, like, how you would interpret this. I'm an investor right now. Let's say I have a reasonably good sized portfolio. I want to grow my wealth, but I also want to manage my risk. How would I? What would I use this for? How would I think about this? For like, really, like practically, how would I use this? Jason: Okay. So what does neutral mean? And neutral is really that center zone of I don't know what it is right. So the first thing I'll ask you to do and I know users or people who are watching or listening can't see this, but in the upper right corner you can see where it says overview and timeline. So the first thing I want you to do is click on timeline, okay, and what you'll see is a chart of the fear and greed index for the last two years. And especially when we are in this neutral area and we don't really know what the overarching sentiment is, it's important to look back over historically, just like we said with the PE ratio. Right, you can look back and compare to peers, or you can say how is it versus history, and so what we see is this 48 is an increase over where it has been. But, more importantly, we're sort of in this weird consolidation period. Fear and greed is just kind of ticking up and down, up and down. It's not really doing much of anything. So, however, we have dropped from a level of greed right Back before April and I'm going to pat myself on the back. I don't write much about fear and greed. I'm going to start, but I don't write much about fear and greed on our site. I did post in one of our little communities. I said, look, hey, just so you guys know. You don't really know me, but I built the Fear and Greed Index and here's what I've been watching Fear and Greed. It has just broken down. I think the market's going to break down with it, and you know my timing was amazing and the next day the market broke down. So, yeah, good for me, blind squirrel. But so what I like to do is I like to look and see and look for patterns and try to understand what is it doing and how does it compare to the market. So a few things, all right. What really matters is fear tends to be good. What happens when the indicator goes into fear or extreme fear? What we see is that standard deviation of returns. So the volatility of the market increases, and I think we're talking about forward volatility too, not like a month out, but days out if you want to measure it each day and sort of see what's happening. Volatility is just high when we are in extreme fear and fear because investors are nervous. What happens when investors are nervous? Good time to buy, right. The other thing is greed happens a lot. Okay, and greed is not necessarily a bad thing. Extreme greed is oftentimes a good thing. Okay, extreme greed tends to have. There's two times that extreme greed happens and one time is a great time and the other time is a high risk time. Okay, the great time is when we have been at extreme fear. The market has fallen maybe the market fell by 10% or something and we're starting to see a rebound and what you'll see oftentimes is the components of the fear and greed index spike and everything spikes, everything jumps up and we get to extreme greed because we've gone from a low level and all of a sudden, investors are committing new capital to the money. Investors are getting excited and we see extreme greed. Extreme greed is almost always good, except when, if we were in some kind of an uptrend okay, we've been, we're in an established uptrend, something good happens, the market kind of spikes. We don't. It's rare that we really see extreme greed during an uptrend, but let's say it happens. Well, that tends to be a period where probably just don't want to commit new capital right now. I probably want to take a breather, wait, because risk is higher. You know it's extreme fear to extreme greed, but really it's low risk to high risk. Louis: But sometimes, as you know, sometimes that greed can be really good too. The other thing yeah, go ahead, sorry, no, no, I was just going to say that reminds me of like the traditional technical interpretation of momentum is after you've had a bear market, you always get to an overbought situation. That doesn't mean the trend's over, it just means the trend's beginning, and it's almost the same concept. It seems like to me to some degree like you're looking for the extremes, but sometimes you have to interpret it the opposite way after a certain condition, after a bear market or after you've had really a lot of fear, and then it pops back up to greed, well, that doesn't mean the trend's over, that means we're just starting to go up again. Exactly yeah, and you have a continuation of the trend. Jason: Right, yeah, yeah, completely. And so with anything, with any indicator, you have to look at it in context right. Everything from an economic indicator, cpi, et cetera. Everything has to be looked at within context. And with that, I think you have to look at the context within the fear and greed index, and that's why there are the seven components, and I actually feel that the seven components are more valuable than that headline number, than the speed dial, right. So we start with and CNN came up with these names and I love it that they did that, because they are so much better at explaining things than I am and they really they said well, you know, here's who our user base is. We want this to be something that is a sophisticated trader can use it. And, as you know, as we heard Katie Stockton tell us several years ago, lots of hedge funds use the fear and greed index, right, they use it as one of their marks to understand what investors are doing. But they want it to be understandable by retail investors, by my dad hundred versus 125 day moving average just to see how far like what is the momentum right. Use that word, it's completely accurate. What is the momentum Is it? Is it so high that it's potentially exhaustive right now? It's so high that it's potentially exhaustive right when we and we normalize it both over the last six months. But then we also go back and we normalize it again over two years to say is that six month number that higher, low that we have? How does that compare where we've really been over a longer period of time? And then we look at, as I mentioned, two measures of stock price strength and stock price breadth. So market breadth we're looking at both 52 week highs and lows on the New York Stock Exchange and then the McClellan Volume Summation Index. So really is money flowing into stocks going up or money flowing into stocks going down? Louis: And what we see is both of those numbers are sitting at extreme fear. Because, those are great indicators. They're such great indicators. Yeah, I mean, I remember back in the day doing a ton of backtesting and those were some of the most robust indicators, all three of them, especially on the new highs it's actually new lows is actually more valuable, in my opinion, based on the research years ago, than the new highs, but just because it showed that extreme capitulation. But those are great and they are complimentary. One is like the number of stocks hitting highs or lows, and then the other one is more. The McClellan summation is also very valuable and it can be manipulated in so many different ways. So and I love that you have three dimensions to that and while you were telling me about this, what struck me is I always try to put things in perspective for the individual investor and for the. You know how they can think about these things and make it useful for them. And I think one of the things that could be useful with this, or is useful for this, is understanding how you're feeling. Like you know, if you've just gone through a period of angst with your portfolio and then you notice that this thing is at fear, right, well, everybody's being fearful and like it's like what are you going to do in your portfolio during that period, right? Well, everybody's being fearful and like it's like what. What are you going to do in your portfolio during that period of time? Jason: Exactly. Louis: You know what how? are just you know how you're feeling, like if you can step away like that fish in the fishbowl with in the water, you know and say, yeah, I'm in the water and you know, and, and this is what's happening, and what am I going to do? And stay level headed. I always talk about like staying level headed is the most important thing as an investor. It's like if I'm overly optimistic, I need to bring myself down and if I'm overly pessimistic, I need to bring myself up. Tom Basso mentioned that to me years ago, who was one of the market wizards. Jason: Right. Louis: Talking about doing that, and I've really that's been probably one of the market wizards, right, talking about doing that, and I've really that's been probably one of the most helpful things for me personally and for advising clients as well and managing money. Just it's. It's it sounds so simple. It's like oh yeah, I know that, but yeah, but do you do it? Jason: Exactly, and that's where it's important to have something that's quantitative and unbiased, right, and I'll tell you a story about that that confirms what you just said. But when we first, a few years after we launched Fear and Greed, I was talking with a financial advisor and he said, oh, I use this thing all the time with my clients and I love it. He said how do you use it? And he said, well, I introduced them all to it. And then, when they call me, when the market is down, wanting to sell their positions, wanting to reduce risk the market's already fallen by 10% or 20% and now they want to reduce risk he says, ok, hang on a sec, go to CNN Markets, fear and Greed. What do you see? And they say extreme fear. And he says, ok, what does that mean? And the client always says, okay, what does that mean? And and the client always says, oh, yeah, everybody's afraid right now. Yes, and what does that mean? That means I shouldn't panic. And hey, let me write you a check because this is a good time to invest. Louis: There you go. So one thing I noticed that's not on here is valuation, which is so hard to time valuation. So this is, you know, valuation. So if you put this in context with valuation, then I think you have a powerhouse, really, because absolutely yeah. Yeah, because then you have that long-term

Guest Bio:Clint Pulver is a renowned keynote speaker, author, and professional drummer known for his expertise in employee retention and workplace culture. He is the creator of the Undercover Millennial Program, which has garnered insights from over 11,000 employees. Clint's engaging presentations blend his passion for music with powerful messages on leadership and mentorship. His book, "I Love It Here," offers invaluable lessons on creating workplaces where people thrive. Clint's innovative approach and commitment to impact have made him a sought-after speaker and thought leader.Core Topics:From Helicopter Dreams to Keynote Success: Clint originally aspired to be a helicopter pilot but had to pivot due to an eye disease. After an unfulfilling stint in the medical field, he discovered his passion for speaking and drumming. This segment highlights the importance of finding and pursuing one's true calling, even when life throws unexpected challenges.The Undercover Millennial Program: Clint's unique research initiative involved going undercover as a young employee to gather authentic insights from over 11,000 employees across 198 organizations. He shares how this program revealed the gaps between leadership perception and employee reality, leading to his book "I Love It Here." This section offers valuable lessons on understanding and improving workplace culture.Integrating Drumming into Keynotes: Clint seamlessly blends his drumming talent with his speaking engagements, creating a memorable and interactive experience for audiences. He explains the logistics of incorporating live drumming and the impact it has on reinforcing his messages. This part provides inspiration for leveraging unique personal skills to enhance professional presentations.Creating Value Beyond the Stage: Clint discusses his 52-week Master Class series, which offers micro learnings on employee retention and leadership. He explains the importance of providing ongoing value to clients and creating multiple revenue streams. This section encourages speakers and entrepreneurs to think creatively about extending their impact and offerings.Resources:Learn more about Clint Pulver:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramYouTubeLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Anne Mahlum is a visionary entrepreneur and philanthropist known for her transformative impact in the nonprofit sector and the fitness industry. She is the founder of Back on My Feet, a nonprofit organization that uses running to help homeless individuals gain independence, and Solidcore, a high-intensity fitness boutique. Anne's innovative approach to community building and personal empowerment has garnered widespread recognition. She is a sought-after keynote speaker and thought leader, dedicated to inspiring others to pursue their passions and overcome life's obstacles.Core Topics:Early Life and Personal Challenges: Anne shares her upbringing in North Dakota, revealing the idyllic start of her childhood and the later turmoil due to her father's gambling addiction. This period of her life teaches listeners the importance of resilience and finding healthy outlets during challenging times.Founding Back on My Feet: Discover how Anne's passion for running and her personal pain from her father's addiction led her to create Back on My Feet, a nonprofit that empowers homeless individuals through running. This segment highlights the power of turning personal struggles into impactful community initiatives.The Journey to Solidcore: Anne describes her transition from nonprofit work to founding Solidcore, a fitness brand with a unique approach. She emphasizes the importance of standing out in a crowded market and leveraging personal strengths. This part offers valuable insights into brand differentiation and market entry strategies.Empowerment through Speaking and Future Goals: Anne discusses her new chapter as a keynote speaker and thought leader. She shares her motivation to empower others and her commitment to helping people realize their potential. This segment is a powerful call to action for listeners to pursue their dreams, overcome fear, and make a significant impact in their own lives and communities.Resources:Learn more about Anne Mahlum:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Naren Aryal is the CEO and co-founder of Amplify Publishing, a pioneer in hybrid publishing. With over 20 years of experience in the industry, Naren has overseen the publication of thousands of titles, specializing in non-fiction and thought leadership. He is passionate about helping authors navigate the evolving landscape of publishing, offering innovative solutions that combine the best aspects of traditional and self-publishing. Naren's expertise and dedication have made Amplify a trusted partner for authors looking to produce high-quality, impactful books.Core Topics:Understanding Hybrid Publishing: Naren explains the concept of hybrid publishing, highlighting its position between traditional and self-publishing. He discusses the benefits, such as high-quality production and marketing support, and the challenges, like the necessity of author investment. This segment offers listeners a clear understanding of why hybrid publishing might be the right choice for them.ROI and the Bigger Picture: Explore how to calculate the return on investment for your book beyond just sales. Naren emphasizes the broader impact of a book on speaking engagements, consulting opportunities, and overall brand visibility. This insight is crucial for authors and speakers looking to leverage their book as a central piece of their platform.The Publishing Timeline: Naren outlines the timeline for hybrid publishing, from manuscript to market. He compares this to traditional publishing, highlighting the faster turnaround times. This practical advice helps aspiring authors understand what to expect and how to plan their book projects effectively.Harnessing AI in Publishing: Delve into the role of AI in modern publishing. While AI can't replace the unique experiences and creativity of human authors, Naren discusses how it can aid in editing, marketing copy, and other supportive tasks. This forward-looking perspective prepares authors for the future of publishing.Resources:Learn more about Naren Aryal and Amplify Publishing Group:WebsiteLinkedIn (Naren)LinkedIn (Amplify)InstagramXFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:John Winsor is a highly regarded entrepreneur, author, and speaker with a deep focus on innovation and the future of work. His extensive career includes founding Radar Communications, which was sold to CP+B in 2007, where he embraced co-creation and strategy to enhance market intelligence. Winsor's early entrepreneurial ventures also involved building a magazine publishing company that centered on sports like mountain biking and extreme skiing. This venture was notably successful, leading to the turnaround of Women's Sports & Fitness and the launch of The Gravity Games, later sold to Condé Nast​​.Winsor is not only recognized for his thought leadership in advertising and business strategy but also as a significant voice in discussions about talent management and the changing workforce landscape. His insights have been published in prestigious outlets like The Harvard Business Review and The Guardian​. At the heart of his professional journey is a profound commitment to exploring and leveraging the potential of crowdsourcing and open talent, themes that are prevalent in his talks and writings, including his book co-authored with Jin H. Paik on open talent solutions​.Core Topics:Early Digital Nomad Experience: Winsor discusses his early adoption of the digital nomad lifestyle, setting up a satellite connection in a remote Mexican village, which allowed him the flexibility to balance life and work remotely long before it became mainstream.Cultural Impact on Business Philosophy: Reflecting on his experiences abroad, particularly in Mexico and Paris, Winsor explains how exposure to different cultures has deepened his approach to business and innovation, advocating for a slower, more observant engagement with new environments.Open Talent and Innovation: John dives into the concept of 'open talent,' contrasting it with traditional employment and explaining how this model has influenced industries by decentralizing how work is performed and emphasizing the importance of aligning tasks with outcomes.Revolutionizing Industries through Crowdsourcing: Winsor shares a compelling story about how his company, Victors and Spoils, leveraged crowdsourcing to win a major contract with Harley-Davidson, showcasing the potential of open innovation to disrupt established market norms and propel businesses forward.Resources:Learn more about John Winsor:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramXFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Mary Ellen Slayter is a content marketing innovator who transitioned from journalism to founding Rep Cap, a B2B content marketing agency that excels in video and podcasting content. Her expertise lies in leveraging journalistic skills to enhance B2B content marketing, focusing on storytelling as a tool to solve business problems and drive engagement.Core Topics:Journalistic Approach to Content Marketing: Mary Ellen discusses how her journalistic background influences her content marketing strategy. She emphasizes the importance of concrete details in storytelling to make business communications compelling and memorable.Integration of Digital Media: Reflecting on the evolution of her agency, Mary Ellen highlights the shift from traditional writing to predominantly using video and podcast formats. This transition underscores the growing relevance of multimedia in engaging modern audiences effectively.The Business of Content Marketing: Exploring the practical applications of content marketing, Mary Ellen shares how strategic content creation aligns with business objectives like lead generation, brand awareness, and customer education. She stresses that content should always serve a clear business purpose.Advice for Aspiring Thought Leaders: Offering insights for thought leaders and speakers, Mary Ellen encourages a proactive approach to content creation. She advocates for experimenting with new ideas, staying curious, and consistently considering the buyer's perspective to enhance relevance and impact.Resources:Learn more about Mary Ellen Slayter:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedinInstagramVimeoLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Shawn Kanungo is a strategist and keynote speaker who operates at the intersection of creativity, business, and technology. Having spent over a decade at Deloitte before venturing into the world of public speaking, Shawn has become a recognized leader in innovation and disruption. He is known for his high-energy presentations and a bold approach that challenges traditional boundaries in the field of professional speaking.Core Topics:Innovation in Speaking: Shawn discusses how professional speakers can be likened to modern-day rock stars, with the potential to significantly impact lives and businesses through engaging and innovative presentations.The Role of Digital Content: Exploring his unique strategy, Shawn emphasizes the importance of recording keynotes and sharing them on social media as a method to test and refine content. He also touches on his groundbreaking work in creating a streaming special, which sets a new standard for speakers worldwide.Impact Over Income: Reflecting on his personal motivations, Shawn shares inspiring stories from audience members whose lives were changed by his talks. He passionately argues that the true value of speaking lies in the impact made on individuals' professional paths and personal growth.Advice for Aspiring Speakers: Shawn offers practical advice for up-and-coming speakers, encouraging them to focus on the impact of their work and to embrace modern digital tools to enhance their visibility and influence.Resources:Learn more about Shawn Kanungo:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedinInstagramXFacebookTikTokLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Susan Drumm is a leadership development advisor with a rich academic and professional background, including Harvard Law School and the London School of Music and Dramatic Arts. She has coached billionaires, CEOs, and political figures, guiding them to enhance their leadership capabilities through increased self-awareness and strategic personal development. Susan is also the author of "The Leader's Playlist," where she merges her expertise in leadership with her passion for music to offer innovative approaches to personal and professional growth.Core Topics:Enlightened Leadership: Susan defines "enlightened leadership" as a blend of awareness about one's impact on others and an intimate understanding of one's internal dialogue. She discusses the balance between recognizing personal strengths and addressing weaknesses that could limit leadership potential.Patterns of Success and Struggle: Drawing on her extensive experience coaching top executives and leaders, Susan identifies common 'playlists'—patterns of thought—that can propel leaders to success or serve as obstacles. She emphasizes the importance of transforming these internal narratives to achieve sustained effectiveness and fulfillment.The Power of Music in Leadership: Susan explains how she uses music not only as a metaphor but as a practical tool to help leaders reprogram their subconscious and foster more empowering beliefs. She shares examples of how specific songs can anchor new, positive mindsets, facilitating profound personal changes.Radical Career Changes: Susan reflects on her own career transitions, from law and business to acting and then to leadership development, highlighting the insights gained and the challenges overcome. She provides advice for those contemplating significant career changes, focusing on the need for courage, clarity, and commitment to personal growth.Resources:Learn more about Susan Drumm:WebsiteThe Enlightened Executive (Podcast)LinkedinXFacebookYouTubeLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Frankie Russo is an accomplished entrepreneur, author, and keynote speaker with a track record of launching successful ventures across various sectors, including technology and marketing. As the founder of Russo Capital and the mind behind companies like Potenza Inc. and 360ia, Frankie has demonstrated exceptional skill in driving exponential growth and innovation. Recognized with numerous accolades such as the Inc. 5000 Top 50 Businesses in the Southwest and ABIZ Entrepreneur of the Year, Frankie's entrepreneurial spirit is matched by his commitment to fostering authentic self-expression. Through his best-selling books, "The Art of WHY" and "Breaking WHY," and impactful keynote speeches, Frankie inspires individuals and organizations to harness their unique weirdness to achieve unprecedented success.Core Topics:Authentic Entrepreneurship: Frankie Russo reflects on his entrepreneurial journey, highlighting the transition from financial success to seeking a deeper, more meaningful impact. He discusses the founding of Potenza Inc., his commitment to creating a brand to be proud of, and the lessons learned from overcoming challenges and embracing authenticity.Confidence vs. Conviction: Russo explores the distinction between confidence, built through experience and practice, and conviction, derived from a deep personal belief in one's message. He emphasizes the importance of conviction in delivering impactful keynote speeches and connecting with audiences on a profound level.The Power of Weirdness: Frankie delves into his philosophy of embracing one's weirdness as a source of innovation and authenticity. He shares how loving his weird led to significant personal growth and success and discusses the importance of creating a culture that celebrates individuality for continuous innovation.Future Directions: Looking ahead, Frankie Russo discusses his commitment to deepening his impact through keynote speaking and sharing his insights on authenticity, imagination, and selflessness. He outlines his approach to refining his content, continually experimenting, and ensuring that his messages resonate with and empower his audiences.Resources:Learn more about Frankie Russo:WebsiteLinkedinInstagramLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

We take it back to '62 to break down one of the original soul jams of the classic rock era with The Contours - "Do You Love Me". See the full episode podcast here: https://youtu.be/fGJWc-mh-9sWith a thorough review of the legendary dance scene from Dirty Dancing when Johnny Castle (Patrick Swayze) meets Baby (Jenny Grey), as well as the classic music video featuring three dancers doing the mashed potatoes on a single step, some backstory of the original recording of the track, and as always- a deep breakdown of the lyrics and the inside meaning behind the song itself. Work!

GUEST BIO:Ryo Zsun is the culture maestro for the Zappos family of companies, as well as a keynote speaker and thought leader on the power of cultivating healthy workplaces. Everywhere he goes, he shares Zappos' message of putting people first.LinksLinkedInCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[0:35] - Back to Work (Without the Awkwardness)Comparing sabbatical and the end of maternity leave Laura discusses her return to work post-maternity leave, comparing it to her previous experience returning from sabbatical. Despite significant personal changes, including a new baby, she was happy to ease back into the company more smoothly than expected. This underscores the company's supportive culture and flexible work environment, highlighting how a strong people-first culture facilitates easier transitions for employees undergoing significant life changes.[0:45] - Embracing Shifting PrioritiesLeveraging life changes to enrich work and personal lifeLaura expresses initial concerns that her shift in priorities towards her child might impact her passion and performance at work. However, her positive experience upon returning illustrates how personal changes can enrich one's professional life rather than detract from it. Embracing life's transitions and harnessing them to bring new perspectives and passion helps lift everybody around you.[10:00] - Company Culture the Zappos WayExploring Zappos' commitment to serviceRyo shares details about his multifaceted role at Zappos, including his contribution to promoting the company's unique culture and exceptional customer service. The conversation sheds light on how Zappos prioritizes being a service company as the foundation of its business model, emphasizing the importance of each employee's role in fostering this environment. The result? Every team member is an ambassador of the values that define Zappos. [18:00] - A Journey Through ZapposRyo's journey is quintessential Zappos supportRyo shares his personal journey at Zappos, starting as a barista and evolving into a role where he now wears multiple hats, including that of a concierge and the company's official tour guide. His story is a testament to Zappos' culture of nurturing employee growth and encouraging exploration of diverse roles within the company.RESOURCES:[50:00] Build a Life You LoveFOLLOW:Follow Ryo:LinkedInFollow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagramFollow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagramFollow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTMABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast.Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.comABOUT THE HOSTS:Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization.Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow.Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's inhouse culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers. PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Raj Nathan, known as the Startup Hypeman, is a multifaceted entrepreneur, blending his passion for hip hop with expertise in startup pitch consulting. His dynamic approach to storytelling and audience engagement has made him a notable figure in the entrepreneurial and keynote speaking worlds. Raj's innovative pitch framework, Que PASA, has guided numerous startups to success, emphasizing the importance of empathy and clarity in communication. As the organizer of Hype Week, Raj showcases his ability to energize and unite the startup community through carefully curated events. His unique journey from rapping about simple rhymes to empowering startups with compelling narratives exemplifies the transformative power of integrating diverse talents.Core Topics:Embracing Hip Hop for Authentic Expression: Raj discusses his passion for hip hop and how it has shaped his approach to storytelling and keynote speaking. He emphasizes the art form's ability to engage audiences through rhythm, rhyme, and raw emotion, sharing how integrating rap into his presentations energizes and connects with listeners on a profound level.The Que PASA Framework for Pitch Perfection: Nathan introduces the Que PASA (Problem, Approach, Solution, Action) model, a powerful tool for startups to create compelling pitches. By leading with empathy and addressing real-world problems, Raj highlights how this framework helps startups stand out and make a lasting impression.Organizing Hype Week: Insights into Event Planning: Raj shares the behind-the-scenes of Hype Week, a series of events celebrating the startup ecosystem. He discusses the importance of early planning, securing sponsors, and creating a buzz to ensure the event's success. Raj's experience offers valuable lessons for speakers looking to organize their own paid events.A Live Performance: Raj's Rap Artistry: In a display of his musical talent, Raj delivers a freestyle rap, showcasing his improvisational skills and the powerful blend of hip hop and storytelling. This performance underlines the episode's theme: the transformative power of combining diverse talents to create unique, impactful experiences.Resources:Learn more about Rajiv Nathan:WebsiteLinkedinInstagramXLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Bridging VisionsWorkplaces, parenthood, and the quest for fulfillmentCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[1:49] - The Power of VisioningLooking forward to look backwardLaura shares a personal story about how a visioning exercise led her to reconsider her stance on having children, illustrating how professional tools and exercises can profoundly influence personal life choices. This story highlights the unexpected ways in which professional development activities can spur personal revelations and lead to significant life decisions.[9:30] - Parenting and the WorkplaceHow a parent and a manager alignMike offers his perspective on parenting and workplace culture, including the evolution towards providing growth opportunities and supportive, encouraging environments in both areas. This comparison sheds light on the shift towards nurturing environments more broadly, whether in the context of raising children or fostering employee growth. When you want to be a great leader, ask yourself: what would a parent do?[24:00] - The Ongoing Challenge of Remote WorkThe new norms bring new barriers to overcomeThe conversation arrives at the continued complexities and adjustments required in the era of remote work, including balancing workloads and helping employees manage their time effectively without the traditional office environment. Mike and Laura agree that we must acknowledge both the benefits and challenges of remote work, emphasizing the importance of self-care and effective work habits for holistic success.[41:30] - Companies that Support the IndividualGetting to the heart of “Love in Leadership”Mike shares his vision for companies to actively engage with employees' aspirations and work together to support their achievement. It's essential to find a balance between individual responsibility and organizational support, a model where companies take a proactive role in encouraging — and actively developing — employee growth and satisfaction.RESOURCES:[55:01] Build a Life You LoveFOLLOW:Follow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagramFollow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagramFollow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTMABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast.Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.comABOUT THE HOSTS:Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization.Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow.Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's inhouse culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers. PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bio:Vika, hailing from the former Soviet Union and now a global citizen, has carved a unique path through her adventures and storytelling. Her journey from fleeing political asylum to becoming an advertising executive and finally embracing a nomadic lifestyle underscores her belief in the power of narratives. A Moth story slam winner and a contributor to Vice, Vika uses her experiences to teach and inspire, advocating for storytelling as a means of connection, healing, and transformation.Core Topics:The Essence of Storytelling: Vika discusses the intrinsic human need to create narratives, emphasizing storytelling's capacity to transform personal and collective experiences. She explores how stories have shaped her life, from her early days in the Soviet Union to her global travels, highlighting the role of storytelling in overcoming challenges and fostering empathy.Curiosity Intelligence and Transformative Narratives: Introducing the concept of 'curiosity intelligence,' Vika offers insights into changing limiting self-narratives through inquisitiveness and openness. She shares practical tips for adopting a more curious mindset, illustrating how this approach can lead to personal growth and a deeper understanding of oneself and others.The Power of Authentic Connection: Vika reflects on her experiences of connecting with people worldwide, underscoring the importance of authenticity in storytelling. She discusses the transformative effect of genuine interactions, both in personal encounters and on the speaker's stage, advocating for stories that resonate on a soulful level.Shaping the Future Through Stories: Looking forward, Vika shares her vision for utilizing storytelling as a tool for societal change. She emphasizes the need for stories that promote empathy, understanding, and action, calling on listeners to embrace their narratives as agents of change in their communities and beyond.Resources:Learn more about Vika Viktoria:WebsiteLinkedinInstagramXFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Start Running & Keep Running (featuring Caitlin Townsend Lamb)Discussions on where inspiration meets disciplineGUEST BIO:Caitlin Townsend Lamb is the Director of People Advancement and Continuous Improvement Systems at Cascade Engineering, where she has dedicated over 14 years to putting people first. Starting her journey as an executive assistant, Caitlin has gone on to play a pivotal role in developing employee engagement methods that have transformed her organization. She's an incredible example of treating people as the focus of our organizations, not profits.LinksLinkedInCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[1:31] - The Power of Personal MotivationInternal is Better than ExternalThe team discusses their experiences and insights on the importance of understanding our unique personal motivations. Discovering what drives us is how to determine what will make us feel alive. It pushes us to pursue our goals, and it has a massive impact on our interactions with others. The discussion revolves around the idea that recognizing and nurturing our internal drives is essential for personal growth and fulfillment.[5:09] - Discipline & Inspiration: Perfect PartnersCreativity and Structure Can CoexistCaitlin explores the relationship between discipline and inspiration, using her experience with running as a powerful example. She suggests that inspiration can often follow the establishment of discipline, highlighting how committing to a routine, such as a consistent running habit, can lead to a deeper sense of accomplishment and connection to your goals. Too often we expect things to move in the other direction — we wait for inspiration to give us the motivation to act. In fact, it's often the opposite.[7:02] - Unlimited Vacation Isn't for EveryoneNavigating the Structure and Freedom BalanceWho would ever think that an unlimited vacation policy would be a bad thing? A discussion on the unexpected challenges of an unlimited vacation policy reveals the diverse needs and motivations of employees, even when it comes to things you might not anticipate causing challenges. Caitlin recounts a memorable interaction with a team member who thrived on the structure provided by traditional vacation policies, showing how even well-intentioned policies need to be flexible and considerate of individual preferences and work styles. We have to know the people we work with before we can try to serve them.[17:01] - Getting Proactive About Social JusticeBuilding an Inclusive Workplace CultureCaitlin describes Cascade Engineering's longstanding commitment to creating an inclusive workplace by actively engaging in anti-racism work. This involves fostering open dialogues around bias, privilege, and systemic racism, with the aim of continuous learning and improvement. The initiative isn't a one-off effort or “token” program — it's an integral part of the company's culture. RESOURCES:[1:11:45] Build a Life You LoveFOLLOW:Follow Caitlin Townsend Lamb:LinkedInFollow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagramFollow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagramFollow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTMABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast.Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.comABOUT THE HOSTS:Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization.Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow.Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's inhouse culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers. PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bios:Paul Mobley is an acclaimed American photographer and keynote speaker known for his ability to capture the essence of his subjects, from celebrities to everyday heroes. With a background enriched by his work with Annie Leibovitz and a passion for exploring the human condition, Mobley's photographs transcend the visual, offering deep insights into the stories of those he portrays. His projects, including "American Farmer," "Everyday Heroes," and portraits of centenarians, reflect his commitment to showcasing the beauty and resilience of the human spirit. Through his keynote speeches, Mobley shares valuable lessons on connection, storytelling, and authenticity, drawing from his extensive experience behind the lens to captivate and inspire audiences.Core Topics:Discovering the Soul of Your Subjects: Paul dives into the importance of connecting with the individuals in front of the camera, a skill that is invaluable for speakers seeking to engage and resonate with their audience. He illustrates how genuine interactions can lead to capturing the essence of a subject's character, offering a lesson in authenticity and empathy.The Impact of Storytelling Through Visuals: We discuss how powerful narratives can be woven through imagery, paralleling the way speakers can use stories to captivate and move their audiences. Paul emphasizes the role of storytelling in creating memorable experiences and the importance of bringing stories to life, whether through photographs or words.Embracing Challenges and Perseverance: Reflecting on his journey and the obstacles he faced, Paul shares insights into the resilience required to succeed in the creative field. This section offers encouragement and motivation for speakers navigating their paths, highlighting the rewards of persistence and hard work.Lessons Learned from Life Behind the Lens: Mobley concludes with the broader lessons he has learned throughout his career, from the power of observation to the value of kindness. His experiences provide rich learning opportunities for speakers, underscoring the importance of staying true to one's values and the impact of small gestures.Resources:Learn more about Paul Mobley:WebsiteLinkedinInstagramXFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: amplifypublishinggroup.comABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

A Mission Beyond Coffee (featuring Jon Sell and Norma Pyscher) Two franchisees discuss leadership, legacy, and leaning on employees for wisdomGUEST BIO: Jon Sell is a seasoned entrepreneur and a passionate advocate for positive workplace culture. With a background as an environmental scientist, Jon transitioned from the corporate world to become a successful franchise owner of BIGGBY® COFFEE.LinkedInNorma Pyscher is an inspirational business leader and co-owner of multiple Biggby Coffee franchises. With roots in nonprofit work, particularly in supporting at-risk youth, Norma has seamlessly integrated her passion for social impact into her entrepreneurial experience. LinkedInCORE TOPICS + DETAILS: [51:53] - When Change Equals GrowthFrom previous careers to franchise ownership Both Jon and Norma come from unique backgrounds before their time as franchisees. Jon was an environmental scientist, while Norma worked in the nonprofit sector. They shared a commitment to meaningful work, which is what attracted them to BIGGBY® COFFEE. Their stories underscore the courage required to pivot into entrepreneurship and fulfillment found in creating positive workplaces. As Jon says, “don't wait to make a change.” [32:09] - More than a WorkplacePutting employee growth and wellbeing first A workplace is not a family. But why can't it feel like one a bit more often? Jon and Norma emphasized the importance of supporting their employees' growth and well-being, treating their teams like family. They highlighted the significance of providing second chances and fostering an environment where everyone feels valued. This also means setting clear expectations and encouraging personal development.[59:28] - The Vision of LeadershipSetting new standards for workplace culture Jon and Norma discussed their commitment to improving workplace culture, not only in their franchises but through their example in the wider corporate landscape. By setting high standards for how employees are treated and engaged with, they hope to be positive influences for other workplaces. It's not about the bottom line — it's about being remembered for creating positive work environments and being willing to step up on behalf of employees.[50:47] - Be Vulnerable FirstThe power of authenticity in leadership Norma and Jon discussed the outdated idea that leaders are meant to always appear infallible and all-knowing. Instead, they advocate for a leadership style that embraces vulnerability, encouraging open communication and authenticity within their teams. As we've seen time and time again, this approach fosters a deeper connection between employees and management, creating a more cohesive and supportive team dynamic.[46:47] - When Leaders Learn from EmployeesIncorporating employee feedback for lasting success The importance of listening to employees and incorporating their feedback into business decisions was a key theme, as it always is when it comes to BIGGBY® COFFEE.. Norma and Jon (as well as cohosts Mike and Laura) believe that great ideas can come from any level within the organization and that acknowledging and acting on employee suggestions leads to better business outcomes and a more engaged team. Better people and a better bottom line — what's better than that?[1:01:02] - More than CoffeeEnvisioning a future in alignment with personal values Both Norma and Jon shared their aspirations for their personal and professional legacies, emphasizing the impact they hope to have beyond the success of their BIGGBY® COFFEE franchises. Norma spoke of her children, of wanting them to inherit a legacy of social and emotional intelligence, coupled with a business acumen that prioritizes people first. Jon expressed a similar thought, hoping his employees would measure future workplaces by the positive experiences they had working for him.RESOURCES:[1:10] Live You Love LaboratoryTM[9:01] BIGGBY COFFEE Franchising®FOLLOW: Follow Jon: LinkedIn Follow Norma: LinkedIn Follow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagram Follow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagram Follow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTMABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast. Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.comABOUT THE HOSTS: Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization. Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow. Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's inhouse culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers. PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS: In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson. As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together. Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Guest Bios:Michelle Anne Johnson: A transformative figure in leadership communication, Michelle leverages her extensive background in acting and personal development to help leaders harness the power of presence. Her journey from performing on television to coaching Fortune 500 executives showcases her unique ability to empower individuals to lead with authenticity, confidence, and purpose.Doug Manuel: A former BBC documentary producer turned rhythm revolutionary, Doug's life took a new direction after immersing himself in West African drumming. With a mission to use art to connect people and cultures, Doug has created stage shows and keynotes that blend musical performance with insights into engagement, collaboration, and community. Now based in Senegal, he continues to impact lives through his nonprofit work and innovative approach to keynote speaking.Core Topics:The Power of Presence: Michelle Anne Johnson delves into the essence of presence in leadership, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, confidence, and purpose. She shares insights into how personal power can dramatically enhance one's impact in both personal and professional realms.Rhythm as a Universal Language: Doug Manuel explores how rhythm and music can bridge cultural divides and foster a sense of unity and collaboration. From corporate workshops to community outreach in Senegal, Doug's work illustrates the profound impact of art on human connection and engagement.Transformative Journeys: Both guests share their personal transformations, highlighting the pivotal moments that led them from traditional careers to the world of keynote speaking. Their stories inspire listeners to pursue their passions and make a meaningful impact.The Art of Keynote Speaking: Michelle and Doug offer valuable advice for aspiring keynote speakers, focusing on the importance of storytelling, authenticity, and audience engagement. They discuss the challenges and rewards of translating personal experiences into compelling presentations that resonate with diverse audiences.Inspiring Others: Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own journeys and consider how they can use their unique skills and experiences to inspire others. Whether through the arts, social impact work, or leadership development, everyone has the potential to make a significant impact in their communities and beyond.Resources:Learn more about Michelle Anne Johnson:WebsiteYoutubeLinkedinInstagramXIMDBLearn more about Doug Manuel:WebsiteYoutubeLinkedinInstagramFacebookLearn more about Josh Linkner:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInInstagramXFacebookABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter its starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner — a New York Times bestselling author — is a rare blend of business, art, and science.On the business front, he's been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which created over 10,000 jobs and sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He's the co-founder and Managing Partner of Muditā (moo-DEE-tah) Venture Partners - an early-stage venture capital firm investing in groundbreaking technologies. Over the last 30 years, he's helped over 100 startups launch and scale, creating over $1 billion in investor returns. He's twice been named the EY Entrepreneur of The Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award.While proud of his business success, his roots are in the dangerous world of jazz music. Josh has been playing guitar in smoky jazz clubs for 40 years, studied at the prestigious Berklee College of Music, and has performed over 1000 concerts around the world. His experiences in both business and music led him to become one of the world's foremost experts on innovation. Joshis the co-founder and Chairman of Platypus Labs, a global research, training, and consulting firm. Today, he's on a mission to help leaders Find A Way™ through creative problem-solving, inventive thinking, and ingenuity.Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY AMPLIFY PUBLISHING GROUP:Partnering with CXOs, keynote speakers, change makers, and other visionary leaders, Amplify Publishing Group (APG) is a leader in the hybrid publishing space with more than twenty years of experience acquiring, producing, marketing, and distributing books. Passionate about ideas and voices that need to be heard, they're known for launching books that start engaging and timely conversations. At each turn, they have been at the forefront of innovation and have spearheaded a critical disruption of the publishing industry.Learn more at: https://amplifypublishinggroup.com/ABOUT IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

HR: Human Revolution (featuring Katrina Ghazarian)Putting the human back in human resourcesGUEST BIO:Katrina Ghazarian is a dynamic CEO of Gameday HR, known for her innovative approach to human resources and workplace culture. With a background that spans from banking to HR, she brings a unique blend of practical experience and insightful leadership to her role. Katrina is recognized as one of the top HR consultants in the nation, driven by her deep passion for people and commitment to employee success. Katrina advocates for proactive change in corporate America, focusing on holistic development and the power of a positive and inclusive workplace environment.LinksLinkedInInstagramCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[0:30] - Insecurity: From College to the Job HuntFlipping the script on the employer-applicant relationshipMike McFall opens the conversation by discussing his recent interaction with college students. He observes their insecurity regarding employment, noting their perception of employers as all-knowing entities. Mike remarks, "They're so insecure about the process... like the employer is this all-knowing czar." The truth, he says, is much different — employers are often trying to figure things out as they go, and in new employees they're looking for a partner to help them do it.[23:55] - There Is No “Traditional” WorkweekLonger hours don't add up to better performanceMike and the gang question the conventional 40-60 hour workweek in corporate America, proposing that optimal performance doesn't necessarily correlate with longer hours. He challenges the notion of hard work equating to actual output. We tend to assume that the people who work the hardest make the most impact, but this isn't always the case.[33:10] - Flexibility, Autonomy, and JoyHow work life has changed in the last decadeThe team highlights how the evolution of workplace flexibility, particularly the shift towards hybrid work environments, has made the professional world much more human-friendly. Katrina emphasizes the importance of adapting to modern work demands, and how the last ten years has seen a monumental shift in flexibility of schedules and the physical places people can work and work from — though there's still a long way to go.[42:12] - HR as Human Growth AdvocatePutting the “human” back in “human resources”Katrina discusses the significance of HR in facilitating not just professional but personal growth of employees. She shares her belief that love in leadership means “accepting everyone for who they are as they are now,” combining this acceptance with the ambition to be a true resource for spiritual growth for every individual at your organization.[1:00:57] - Busting Stereotypes in HR and BusinessHow Katrina is helping change the game in HRKatrina challenges the traditional perceptions and stereotypes in HR and business, particularly regarding women in leadership roles. She advocates for a more inclusive and understanding approach, saying: "You have to be a good person, which means you have got to do a lot of your inner work." This flies in the face of the profits-first, people-second approach of many companiesRESOURCES:[11:24] Gameday HR[59:52] Loving What Is, by Byron Katie[1:00:57] Women Who Run with the Wolves, by Clarissa Pinkola Estés[1:02:06] Letting Go, by David R. HawkinsFollow Katrina Ghazarian:LinkedInInstagramFollow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagramFollow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagramFollow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTMABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast.Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.comABOUT THE HOSTS:Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization.Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow.Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's inhouse culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers. PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Words, Actions, and Where They Meet (featuring Alisha Beck, Jeremy DeRuiter, & Brie Roper)A dive into the principles guiding the Life You Love LaboratoryTMGUEST BIO:Alisha Beck, originally from southeast Michigan, has a rich background in people-oriented roles. Starting her career at Dunkin Donuts, she transitioned to BIGGBY® COFFEE where she has held various positions at store and home office levels, including personal development mentoring, culture development, and employee coaching.LinkedInJeremy DeRuiter's journey began as a barista at Michigan State University, leading to various roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE. With an initial ambition to become a high school teacher, he found his calling in training and operations within the company. His experience covers a broad spectrum, including training, operations, and marketing. Jeremy is now a key figure in the Life You Love LaboratoryTM, focusing on leadership development and improving workplace culture.LinkedInBrie Roper made her way from a job at TGI Fridays to a significant role at BIGGBY® COFFEE. Beginning as a barista, she moved through various positions including store leadership and business coaching, and now is a part of the home office team. Brie is loved at BIGGBY® COFFEE for her enthusiasm, commitment to positive workplace culture, and her role as a people development mentor.LinkedInCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[1:00] - The Power of the Words We UseWhy it's more than just semanticsOne thing that sets BIGGBY® COFFEE apart from some other organizations — and may seem at odds with its unconventional, progressive approach — is its emphasis on using the right language. As Laura says: “It's really freaking hard to keep language straight within an organization.”So, why does language matter? Because language shapes culture. The collective understanding and use of specific terms play a crucial role in defining the values and beliefs that underpin the organizational culture.[13:48] - Empower Individuals, Empower OrganizationsFocusing on the one elevates the manyIf you want to make your organization more successful, you have to focus on making your people more successful — not as employees, but as human beings. When you develop people from a holistic perspective, helping inspire personal growth, you ultimately enhance workplace culture and create a sense of well-being that leads employees to genuinely love working for your organization.[48:26] - Engagement: More Than a BuzzwordWhy employee engagement should be a top priority for any companyJeremy brings us back to basics with a simple, unavoidable question: “Are your people engaged, yes or no?”This might seem like an oversimplification, but the truth is that employee engagement might just be the #1 most effective measurement of success at an organization. Why? Because engaged employees indicate a culture of trust and psychological safety, both critical for a thriving work environment.[1:10:06] - What We Expect from Our WorkplacesIt's not 1920 — or even 2020 — anymore.Too many companies are still trying to give their employees what people were asking for a hundred years ago — or even five years ago. But what people want now is flexibility and openness. They want reasonable work arrangements, nurturing environments, open communication, and genuinely fulfilling relationships within their organization.Great human-centric leaders focus on giving them those things. As Mike says, “I want every employee to walk into work and demand human-centric leadership.” The goal is to transform workplace culture into one where leaders genuinely care for the well-being and development of their team members.RESOURCES:[9:21] BIGGBY COFFEE Franchising®[10:11] Live You Love LaboratoryTMFollow Alisha Beck:LinkedInFollow Jeremy DeRuiter:LinkedInFollow Brie Roper:LinkedInFollow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagramFollow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagramFollow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTMABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast.Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.comABOUT THE HOSTS:Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization.Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow.Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's inhouse culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers. PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Reading Between the Lines (featuring Tom Belongia)A franchise owner shares the simple power of listeningGUEST BIO:Tom Belongia is an influential franchise owner and area representative for BIGGBY® COFFEE in Wisconsin. His journey from working at Pilot Travel Centers to becoming a key player at BIGGBY® COFFEE showcases his dedication to community-centric business practices. Over 15 years, Tom has significantly expanded BIGGBY® COFFEE's presence in his state, emphasizing a leadership style rooted in personal growth and empowerment.Diagnosed with dyslexia as a child, Tom overcame educational challenges with the support of his family and mentors, an experience that deeply influences his approach to nurturing young leaders within his business. Links:LinkedInCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[29:39] - When Weaknesses are StrengthsFrom discouragement and frustration to resilience and empathy Tom opens up about his personal struggles with dyslexia as a child. He recounts how he was discouraged early in life but found strength through supportive teachers and family members, and that now in his role at BIGGBY® COFFEE and beyond he wants to be that influence for others. This experience also shaped his remarkable resilience and informed his empathetic leadership style, teaching him the value of supporting and believing in others' potential — no matter their surface-level weaknesses.[42:31] - Sometimes Work is Just WorkTom on finding balance in personal and professional goalsTom shares insights on how maintaining a healthy balance between professional and personal life is a common concern among his staff. Too often, managers and leaders make the mistake of thinking that managing work-life balance is up to individuals. But when they take a proactive stance on helping them with that balance, employees are inspired to give their best when they are at work. Tom emphasizes the necessity of creating an environment where employees feel valued and can manage their personal needs alongside their professional responsibilities.[43:21] - Listening Speaks Louder than WordsWant to know what your employees think? Ask them.Tom recalls the time he asked his employees directly what would make them feel appreciated, no strings attached. They told him in no uncertain terms that they wanted time off. This led to the implementation of a paid time off (PTO) policy that had employees literally applauding. This shows the simple yet powerful significance of listening to employees' needs and how simple acts of understanding can lead to transformative leadership decisions.[54:16] - Loving the Ones Who LeaveWhen great people leave, consider it a successTom talks about the importance of celebrating employees' growth, even when it leads them away from the company. He believes that supporting employees' career aspirations and life, including when it means they leave the organization, creates a positive work culture and fosters goodwill and community respect. This is what makes this such a wonderful place to work —people who genuinely care about the individuals beyond their value to any bottom line.RESOURCES:[8:49] About BIGGBY® COFFEE FranchisingFollow Tom Belongia:LinkedInFollow Laura Eich:LinkedInFacebookInstagramFollow Mike McFall:WebsiteLinkedInFacebookXInstagramFollow BIGGBY® COFFEE & LifeLabTM:WebsiteFacebookXInstagramLinkedInAbout LifeLabTMABOUT LOVE IN LEADERSHIP:At the Life You Love LaboratoryTM and BIGGBY® COFFEE, we're out to prove that financial success and healthy workplace culture aren't two separate goals. BIGGBY® COFFEE's own cultural transformation is proof that not only is it possible to have a successful company where people aren't miserable at work, but that the happier your people are, the more your business will grow. Each week, join host Laura Eich, Chief Purpose Officer at BIGGBY® COFFEE, and her co-host and BIGGBY® COFFEE co-CEO Mike McFall as they're joined by guests from around the world to learn how they are fostering a culture of love and growth in the world's most innovative and people-centric companies. Get inspired. Get real. Get ready to transform workplace culture in America with us. This is the Love in Leadership podcast.Learn more at: loveinleadershippodcast.comABOUT THE HOSTS:Mike McFall began his journey with BIGGBY® COFFEE as a minimum-wage barista at the original store in East Lansing in 1996. Over the span of 23 years, alongside business partner Bob Fish, he has helped create one of the great specialty coffee brands in America. Today Mike is co-CEO with Bob, and BIGGBY® COFFEE has over 250 stores open throughout the Midwest that sell tens of thousands of cups of coffee each day. But more importantly to Mike and BIGGBY® COFFEE, the company is a profoundly people-first organization.Mike is also the author of Grind, a book which focuses on early stage businesses and how to establish positive cash flow.Laura Eich is BIGGBY® COFFEE's Chief People Officer, having worked in a variety of roles at BIGGBY® COFFEE for the last 11+ years. She helped launch BOOST, the department at BIGGBY® COFFEE which ultimately became LifeLabTM — BIGGBY® COFFEE's inhouse culture cultivation team designed to help people be the best versions of themselves and help companies support them along the way. In her role, Laura helps people build lives that they love through the process of building profitable businesses and robust, growth-filled careers. PRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Legendary television producer/director Don MischerHis credits include: The Oscars; The Obama Inaugural Celebration at the Lincoln Memorial; the 100th Anniversary of Carnegie Hall; Motown 25 - Michael Jackson's moonwalk on national tv; Super Bowl Halftime Shows (Michael Jackson, Prince, the Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springsteen to name a few)... and more!His book is entitled":10 SECONDS TO AIR"Don Talks:-Motown 25 and did he know Michael Jackson would be doing the Moonwalk on national television for the very first time-How did a white guy from Texas end up with the Motown 25 job-Having to deal with Diana Ross' band being arrested -The uncomfortable moment with Frank Sinatra on live television at the Presidential Inauguration-The Academy Award LaLa Land blunder-Prince halftime show when it started to rain-What Prince said to Don right before his performance -Paul McCartney's halftime show followed the year after the 'wardrobe malfunction'-Springsteen's halftime show slide XLIII  To subscribe to The Pete McMurray Show Podcast just click here

The Energizer (ft. Rachel Sheerin)On powering your life and the lives of othersOPENING QUOTE:“A lot of those titans, in 2020 and 2021, they weren't ready to say the B word yet. It wasn't viral on TikTok yet.”-Rachel SheerinGUEST BIO:Rachel Sheerin doesn't just motivate, she illuminates. She doesn't just speak, she electrifies any room. Her keynote message of finding both passion and success in life and work is amazing, but what's really made her special and such an in-demand speaker and MC is her 1,000-watt onstage performance. Her tales of resilience, hilarious misadventures and powerful insights into burnout and recovery inspire and entertain audiences all over the world. Whether she's diving deep in the topics of personal growth, lighting the path toward professional success or sharing that infectious laugh, Rachel Sheerin is not just a speaker and an MC — she's an experience.Links:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramXFacebookCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[3:28] - Famous Words, New MeaningWhat does it really mean to love life?Just a few years ago, Rachel Sheerin was miserable, burntout, and ready to set fire to her career. Then, she did. What came next changed everything. She began looking for joy, rather than just the next project. She began looking for ways to “move the needle,” finding ways that her life was pulling her away from happiness rather than pushing her toward it. Loving our life means changing our mindset and our circumstances, learning to embrace what we can't change and push past what's standing in our way.[7:52] - Burnout as OvercaringBurnout comes There's a saying that parenting is only hard for good parents, and the same is true of career burnout. A career is only a challenge if you care about doing it well. Rachel found that her burnout came from trying to be all things, for all people, at all times.Soon, she began learning to prioritize what mattered most in a given moment. Sometimes, that was herself. Other times, it was her community. And sometimes, it was the entire world. Avoiding burnout is about managing our caring muscles.[16:24] - The Difference Between an MC and a Keynote SpeakerSimilar backgrounds, different rolesHaving seen both sides, Rachel Sheerin understands the distinction between an MC and a keynote speaker. An MC is someone there for engagement and enjoyment and event management. It's the three Es that are at the core role of an MC. A keynote speaker can definitely do those things, but it's really about their thought leadership, motivation, and whether they're an expert in their subject. To put it more succinctly: MCs excel at delivering an organization's message. Keynote speakers excel at delivering their own message to organizations.[33:41] - The People Who Don't Look Like YouBenefitting from diverse perspectivesWant to expand your knowledge, empathy, and capability? Start by expanding your openness to diverse voices. As Rachel says, it's not about hitting a benchmark or making a token effort on an individual or organizational level. It's about opening yourself up to exposure from people who look differently, think differently, and do differently than you. It's the moment when you star tasking: “Gosh, what else is out there?”RESOURCES:[2:48] Rachel's BlogFollow Rachel Sheerin:WebsiteLinkedInInstagramXFacebookFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramXYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Go Beyond (ft. Colin O'Brady)From never-walk-again to never-stop-climbingOPENING QUOTE:“Man, I'd do anything for an ejector seat button to get me the heck out of here, as fast as possible, that's for sure.”-Colin O'BradyGUEST BIO:Colin O'Brady is a 10 time world record holding explorer, New York Times bestselling author, professional athlete, multi-time entrepreneur, and collegiate athlete. Back in the early 2000s, Colin experienced a tragic setback that meant he was unlikely to ever be able to walk normally again. Not only did he walk again, but 18 months later he placed first in the overall legendary Chicago triathlon. From that day forward, Colin was a professional triathlete, racing in 25 countries across six continents. He then went on to break not one, but two mountaineering world records, where he competed in a series of challenges known as the Explorer's Grand Slam in just 139 days, reaching the top of the tallest peaks on all seven continents along the way.Today, Colin's impact goes beyond breaking records. He's the founder of a nonprofit, and has spoken to the likes of NBCUniversal, P&G, and the Aspen Institute, helping millions of people around the world transcend previous limits and go beyond.Links:WebsiteInstagramFacebookXLinkedInYouTubeCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[8:19] - The Voices in the TentOvercoming self-doubt in the blizzardMany people think that mega-achievers like Colin don't experience doubt, and that's what makes them strong. But in fact, it's their ability to overcome their own self-doubt that makes high achievers who they are.Colin recalls moments during his trek across Antarctica, when he was alone in his tent, when various different “voices” in his head were telling him to quit, give up, or move on. What allowed him to persevere wasn't a lack of doubt — it was the ability and tenacity to move past it.[13:23] - The Triathlon & the ChairOvercoming adversity one three-hour step at a timeWhen Colin experienced the accident that left him wheelchair-bound, he set an audacious goal — completing a triathlon. But the goal felt so far off and insurmountable, it was easy to get discouraged.Then his mother placed a chair down in front of him in the kitchen, and told him to focus on the small goals. She wanted him to cross the one-step distance to the chair from his wheelchair. It took three hours, and he did it.Later, Colin submitted Everest — and took a tiny pebble as a souvenir. From the kitchen to the top of Everest, Colin has learned to value the way that small things add up to mountain-sized achievements.[16:47] - The Peaks Beyond the PeakMoving goalposts in a life of achievementWe all have our mountain peaks — the goals we think will mark our ultimate level of achievement and joy. But then we get there, and what happens? We feel letdown, and realize there's a whole other peak even higher up.For Colin, he likens it to “post-Olympic depression” — the letdown felt by elite athletes after the end of the event they've worked their entire lives toward. His advice? Move beyond the finish line by acknowledging there is no finish line. The top of one mountain is the bottom of the next. You have to be invested in the process of growth, because growth is the peak that's always there.[26:16] - When the Consequences Are RealOn risk and danger in live and businessColin's often seen as someone who takes lots of risks. In fact, he constantly assesses the risk associated with any undertaking and only takes them on if he feels the risks are manageable. But that doesn't mean he's always comfortable. On the edge of comfort and risk is the sweet spot: discomfort that leads to growth.Where in your career are you calling it “risk” when it's really “discomfort”? What uncomfortable things can you do while still managing risk?That's where growth is likely to come fastest and hardest.RESOURCES:[4:44] The 12 Hour Walk, by Colin O'Brady[4:44] The Impossible First, by Colin O'BradyFollow Colin O'Brady:WebsiteInstagramFacebookXLinkedInYouTubeFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramXYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Letting Go to Move Ahead (ft. Jamie Hess & Matthew Vincent)This business demands boldness, so we talked to two of the boldestOPENING QUOTE:“Do you want to be doing a hoe down for children's vitamins and a skit about band-aids on Instagram for the rest of your life?”-Jamie HessGUEST BIO:Jamie HessJamie Hess overcame a slew of self-destructive behaviors and turned her so-called liabilities into her greatest assets. She became a top executive, ambassador for hundreds of brands, contributor to Today, Good Morning America, and The View and the face of zuda activewear on QVC. She speaks on stages across the country, teaching her prosperity system called Gratitudeology, a method that reframes the way people take on challenges, helping them hack their hustle and lean into their fear. Jamie spent two decades as a PR expert and high level brand strategist for companies like LinkedIn, McDonald's, and W Hotels. She's also the co-host of the Off the Ground Podcast, named one of the top 40 best podcasts by Good Housekeeping, and has her newest project, the Gratitudeology Podcast, launching February 5th, 2024. Links:WebsiteInstagramXLinkedInYouTubeMatt VincentIf you've never heard of the Highland Games, there are two things you need to know about them. Number one, it's a Scottish cultural event dating back 900 years that attracts some of the strongest people in the world. And number two, Matt Vincent is the two-time world champion. Yes, he could lift any one of us above his head easily. But these days he's more interested in lifting people's spirits through his brand, Not Dead Yet, launched in 2017. In addition to creating apparel and lifestyle products, Not Dead Yet has a podcast with over 450 episodes that brought Matt into the world of public speaking.Links:InstagramYouTubeXCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[9:52] - Why Be a Speaker?On motivations and inspirations For Jamie, the calling to become a speaker came from a desire to make an impact beyond social media influence. She wanted to not just serve brands but serve people, helping them unlock their greatest potential.For Matt, it's about what he calls the “forge.” By refining his message, his delivery, and his ethos as a speaker, he's refining himself and his community. As he says, “even if this doesn't turn into me getting speaker jobs, the side effect of me learning how to do it better will benefit people in my community.”[19:20] - The Power of GratitudeologyJamie explains her growing movementJamie explains the power of gratitude with a running analogy. When you head out on a run, your instinct is to look down at your feet. When you do that, you fixate on each individual step, and time passes slowly. You feel miserable. You want to quit. But when you raise your view to what's around you, taking in all the beauty of the world you're running through, the miles seem to fly by, and you discover you actually enjoy it. That's the power of gratitude, and the foundation of Gratitudeology.[24:56] - Motivating Through Dark MomentsMatt explores the light in the darknessWhat keeps us going when the work we're doing seems fruitless, or there's no immediate payback? Matt says it's all about focus. As evidenced by his earlier “forge” comment, he's discovered a passion for the process, not just the destination. He's fallen in love with the growth he experiences by pursuing his passions — so any results that come are just a bonus.Meanwhile, he reminds us to sharpen the ax to slay the bigger dragon. That looks different for everyone, but it really amounts to taking care of yourself and staying fired up. [29:46] - Choosing Your IdentityChoose who you are, then make it soMatt is someone who's already comfortable with leaving behind past versions of himself. He's let go of the athlete side of himself, which was once his defining characteristic and he now calls “the least important and least interesting things about me.” That willingness to let go is what gives us the opportunity to embrace new futures and identities for ourselves. It gives us the chance to “suck at something new.”As for Jamie, the burden of the past comes from associations. With a famous mother, she's had to move out from beyond her shadow to carve out her own niche for herself. That meant no longer hiding and instead embracing many of the same career directions her mother took — not in tribute or deference to her mother, but because that was the path that called to Jamie, as well. RESOURCES:[1:58] About Gratitudeology(™) [2:19] Off the Gram Podcast[2:52] About Highland Games[3:07] About Not Dead YetFollow Jamie Hess:WebsiteInstagramXLinkedInYouTubeFollow Matt Vincent:InstagramYouTubeXFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramXYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

From Comedy to Keppler (ft. Warren Jones)An unexpected path brings surprising insightsOPENING QUOTE:“Thunder applause, everybody on their feet. So happy, just ecstatic. And he said, "Here's the thought I had. I've got to write a new speech.”-Warren JonesGUEST BIO:From a hugely successful career in entertainment, working as a manager at ABC and then at Professional Representatives Organization International, Warren Jones entered the world of marketing to eventually land the CEO gig at EnterWorks. He also launched a successful comedy agency. Later, a casual breakfast meetup with a friend led to an offer to become the CEO of the prestigious Keppler Speakers Bureau. Warren couldn't turn down the challenge, and the rest is history.Links:LinkedInCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[15:31] - “I've Got to Write a New Speech”Improving from the topWarren brings up an inspiring story of a speaker who told him about an experience they had after a speech. They had just delivered their message to a packed room, who erupted in thunderous applause, and this speaker was feeling at the absolute top of their game. In that moment, they thought: “I've got to write a new speech.”This speaker was so focused on ensuring that the response they received — and the quality of their message— never diminished, that even at the absolute pinnacle they could only think about their new leap. That's the mark of a true pro.[18:10] - What Speakers Can Learn from ComediansEfficiency and ConnectionIn Warren's experience, comedians often say that writing the first five minutes of a set is the hardest. So many of them work backward — they start with their key beats or punchlines, then build from their destination backward. If something doesn't help get them there, they cut it. Meanwhile, comedians intuitively understand that comedy is about connection as much as its about humor. When an audience is tuned into the wavelength of the performer, that's when real magic happens.Speakers can learn from both of these lessons: design keynotes around your key points, being ruthlessly efficient in the process, and never forget about the power of connection.[23:46] - What Do the Greats Do?Asking Warren what gives speakers staying powerWarren helpfully outlines his example of the perfect pro speaker. She does the event calls and pre-event calls, sometimes more than one. She offers a follow-up conversation. When she walks onstage, she knows the audience — what the hot buttons are, what they may have talked about that morning in another session or the day before. She doesn't play down to the audience or underestimate them. She interacts early and often with the event planner. She even serves as an ambassador for other speakers. She's deeply service oriented.Consider this a checklist for anyone wanting not only a successful speaking career, but a long one.[36:22] - Substance Over FlashThe past, present, and future of the industryThere was a time in speaking when star power was king. Event planners wanted to draw a crowd, and a marquee speaker was the way to do it. But now events draw their crowds from the quality and relevance of the event itself. That means speakers aren't the star — their message is. The future of keynote speaking is all about transformative messages that lead to real impact, not recognizable names that ultimately lead nowhere. Content is what it's all about.RESOURCES:[1:35] About Keppler[40:15] Big Little Breakthroughs, by Josh LinknerFollow Warren Jones:LinkedInFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramTwitterYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

The Virtuoso (ft. Felipe Gomez)Singing, laughing, and connecting your way to the big stageOPENING QUOTE:“I really thought about it, but when I was there on the stage, I said, what the hell? I'm going to sing. I'm going to make them sing.”-Felipe GomezGUEST BIO:Felipe Gomez is a multi multi hyphenate who has given over a thousand performances across 65 cities, 25 countries and 15 impactful years. He's an artist, humanitarian thought leader and keynote speaker. Felipe combines his unapologetically bold approach to leadership with an unforgettable keynote format, one that features a grand piano at center stage.Links:WebsiteLinkedInCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[5:16] - Music as an Impact MultiplierFrom straightforward keynotes to musical extravaganzasWhen Felipe first began delivering keynotes, they were much more traditional — standing up in front of the crowd and speaking. But he began thinking about his personal passion for music, and how it might be able to help augment his keynote message. It was then that he realized that while his message could speak to people's minds, his music could speak to their heart. The result was greater impact — more memorable keynotes, more connection between ideas and emotions —  and he never looked back.[7:44] - The Making of a VirtuosoMethod, Attitude, & PassionWhat makes a virtuoso?Felipe identifies a virtuoso as having three key traits — method, attitude, and passion.Most individuals and organizations focus on method. They want to reach new levels of operational excellence, perfect processes, and cutting-edge technology.But they also need attitude, their “onstage” persona. The attitudes we assume in our day-to-day jobs define whether we connect or disconnect with clients, customers, peers, and coworkers.Finally, you need passion. It means putting your heart and soul into what you're doing so that the ordinary ceases to happen and the extraordinary can take its place.This is how a virtuoso is made, in life, in music, or in business.[32:25] - Connecting to the OneA backstage ritual we can all learn fromBefore each keynote, just before stepping on stage, Felipe takes a moment to consider his audience. Whether he's about to speak to a hundred people, a thousand people, or 10 people, he reminds himself that if just one person in the room can watch his keynote and change a behavior, think differently, or break out of damaging habits, his work will have been worthwhile. When Felipe does this, it helps keep him focused on the individuals in the audience, not the overall size of the crowd. He forgets the numbers and just remembers the one.RESOURCES:[1:25] Learn More About Felipe[12:16] Attitude-E, by Felipe GomezFollow Felipe Gomez:WebsiteLinkedInFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramXYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Insights from the World's Largest Bureau (ft. Ryan Heil)What we can learn from an industry powerhouse with a startup attitude run by a philosopherOPENING QUOTE:“So, I think that's our job, is to help speakers identify those nuggets, and the speaker's job's to take the complex and make it super applicable.”-Ryan HeilGUEST BIO:Ryan Heil is the president of Washington Speakers Bureau, the largest and quite possibly the single most respected bureau on the planet. But if you dive into his resume, you'll find a whole bunch of unexpected treasures. A former player for the New York Mets and a D1 college baseball coach, Ryan also holds a doctor of philosophy. He co-authored a book entitled Choose Love Not Fear, and has served in numerous leadership positions at Clemson University.Links:BioLinkedInXCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[7:44] - Finding the Fun in FuturismWhy Ryan Heil doesn't fear what's nextNot only is Ryan not concerned about the future of speaking in a rapidly changing marketplace — he's excited by it. He's brought a startup attitude to WSB, ensuring that nothing is sacred and no business strategy goes forward simply because “that's the way it's always been done.” His mantra, “Is there a better way to do this?” has helped WSB look toward the future, when many other long-established bureaus might be tempted to look only to their past. While Ryan acknowledges the company's history has many lessons to teach, he believes those lessons revolve around how to evolve — and what happens when you don't.[13:41] - Helping Speakers Reinvent ThemselvesHow WSB helps guide speakers into new frontiersWhen helping coach speakers to make themselves more marketable — and when selecting new speakers to go exclusive at WSB — Ryan focuses on a set of core questions.Who is going to pay to hear these people speak and their message? What question is the speaker answering that the customer knows they need to answer? How do we help connect that dot? What is your simple message that you repeat over and over again? Do you have platform skills, and how good are those platform skills?Emerging speakers should write these questions down somewhere, then set about answering each of them as they develop their brand.[22:40] - When Not to Go ExclusiveExclusive feels special, but it isn't always rightWhen it comes to going exclusive, Ryan advises putting it off early on. When you're figuring out who you are, making a name for yourself, carving out a space in the market — that's the time to work with as many different groups of people as possible. Keep developing your content, building your product, and finding customer bases. When it comes to the point where you need to either hire a back office or get with a bureau, then you know it's time to start thinking seriously about going exclusive.[28:39] - Ryan's Realistic OptimismThe speaking industry will change. But it will also endure.Ryan doesn't beat around the bush when it comes to potential upheaval in the speaking industry. “What budgets start to look like, what honorariums shift to, how contracts are done, I think all that's going to change. The inclusion of technology and AI into a lot of things, it's all going to change.”And yet, Ryan says, “I do believe that the core of this is going to be around the relationships. Regardless of where people work, who they work with, the structure they work in, people are going to hold meetings. They've been holding meetings and having speakers since the beginning of time, and I think that's going to continue.”RESOURCES:[1:29] About Washington Speakers Bureau[1:50] Choose Love Not Fear, by Ryan HeilFollow Ryan Heil:LinkedInXFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramXYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Behind the Curtain: An Open Convo with a Buyer and a Bureau (ft. Tim Mathy & Lynne McNees)How do you find out what buyers and bureaus want in a speaker? You ask them.OPENING QUOTE:“That standing ovation, it's not about the speaker, it's not even about the audience to me. It's about the people planning the event. That's who that standing ovation is for.”-Tim MathyGUEST BIO:Lynne McNees is president of the International Spa Association, or ISPA — the worldwide professional organization for the entire spa industry active in over 70 countries.When magazines like the New York Times, USA Today, Travel and Leisure, or the Associated Press need a spa expert, Lynne is the only name they trust. Before joining ISPA, Lynne was a Washington DC power player with high-profile roles in multiple presidential administrations. It's no wonder she jumped into the industry designed to help people relax.Links:BioLinkedInTim Mathy is the current president of the International Association of Speaker Bureaus. He has been in the bureau space since he joined SpeakInc over 20 years ago, and since then he's been active with industry leaders like PCMA, MPI, IMX, and the list of acronyms goes on and on. If you want to know how bureaus work from the inside out, Tim is your guy.Links:BioCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[8:49] - From Bureau to BuyerHow speakers go from Tim's list to Lynne's eventAfter working together for over 20 years, Tim and Lynne have a well-established bureau-buyer relationship. Tim says it all starts with knowing the buyer's community. He's not just picking the best speakers to present to Lynne, he's presenting the best speakers for her needs. For speakers, that means you don't have to generalize your message in order to meet every possible organization or subject. You can feel empowered to specialize, knowing that if your message is strong, you'll be able to find an audience that's right for it.[19:32] - What Gets You on the List?An inside look at what bureaus and buyers are looking forWhen it comes to what attracts Lynne or Tim to a speaker, they offer a clear list. First off, they're looking for the basics — customization and preparation, plus an easy-to-work-with attitude. They're also looking for a balance of inspiration and nuts-and-bolts takeaways, a business focus while also offering a humanitarian perspective. Consider these elements when preparing to pitch yourself to bureaus or buyers. Do you know how to strike that balance of uplifting and down-to-earth, business-centered and human? If you can find that sweet spot while remaining true to your character and message, you'll find opportunity.[20:28] - Changing Priorities in a Changing IndustryWhat's new when it comes to booking speakersLynne and Tim both explore the way that a speaker's primary purpose at a conference or event has evolved. It used to be that big-name speakers were a primary draw for industry conferences — you would go to the conference because so-and-so was going to be there. But today, these conferences have grown to attract attendees on their own. Now the speaker is less about a name and more about delivering actual value. Can you knock your keynote out of the park and leave the audience with relevant, actionable takeaways? If you can do that, it doesn't necessarily matter if you've got a megawatt name or massively impressive credentials.[27:08] - The Long GameAdvice from Tim and Lynne on looking forwardFor two people who have been working together in the speaking for decades, it's no surprise that Tim and Lynne advise playing the long game. Don't get bogged down in temporary setbacks or issues. Instead, focus on long-term strategy. What are the efforts that will be worthwhile no matter how the world changes? Focus on themAnd finally, all along the way there's one simple way to supercharge your career — be kind and trustworthy. “Once you have that trust,” Tim says, “you can't beat that.”RESOURCES:[1:54] About ISPA[2:46] About IASBFollow Lynne McNees:BioLinkedInFollow Tim Mathy:BioFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramTwitterYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Exactly What to Say (ft. Phil Jones)How to be a perfectionist and an improviser all at onceOPENING QUOTE:“... woke up seven days later, 120,000 free downloads. I'm like, okay, I might have something.”-Phil JonesGUEST BIO:Phil Jones has founded not one but five multimillion dollar companies, became the youngest ever winner of the British Excellence of Sales and Marketing Award, and produced the most listened to nonfiction audiobook of all time, Exactly What to Say? Phil entered the business world at age 14 and went from a bucket and sponge to a fleet of car washing employees that led him to earning more at age 15 than his high school teachers.When it comes to speaking industry experience, Phil has given over 2,500 presentations across 57 countries and 5 continents. Beyond his business success, he's the proud dad of twins and is passionate about making a positive impact by elevating everyone around him.Links:WebsiteFacebookXLinkedInYouTubeInstagramCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[6:04] - The Power of “How”When someone's better than you, get curiousEver since his days working for his dad's self-employed building business, Phil has been intensely curious and active about finding out how people find success. As he says, “Success leaves clues, and if you're brave enough to follow the clues, then chances are it might work out well for you.”So when you come across someone who does what you do better than you do, don't get mad — get curious. Ask them how.[21:50] - Big Idea vs. Proven MethodWhat kind of book is in you?If you have a big idea, you can certainly go after a book deal and try to make a name for yourself through that big idea. But many speakers, Phil argues, would be better served by a “proven method” book. Something that's going to live with you, that will serve as your IP. Something that is your signature calling card. As Phil says: “John Bonjovi can write as much new music as he likes, but people are going to remember him for Living on a Prayer.[23:45] - Don't Rest on Your LaurelsMake something great? Time to remake it.Phil shares one quick but powerful insight that's important not to miss — once “Exactly What to Say” became a massive success, he didn't simply leave it alone. He began creating new editions for every print run. New call-to-actions, new lead magnets, new thank-you pages. All of these changes happen again and again, ensuring that his ideas remain as fresh and relevant as they were in the first edition.This concept can be applied to books, keynote speeches, career strategies — anything that you've found that works doesn't need to become stagnant.[32:37] - What Matters Most Happens OffstageService, relationships, and humanityPhil says that the biggest aspect of winning and sustaining a career as a speaker comes down to the more “intangible” things: health, relationships, boundaries. These things are all more important than fees and tactical business decisions. Meanwhile, keeping a service mindset is essential — no matter how many millions of audiobooks you sell.RESOURCES:[1:55] Exactly What to Say, by Phil Jones[32:28] NSA: National Speakers AssociationFollow Phil Jones:WebsiteFacebookXLinkedInYouTubeInstagramFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramXYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

The Soulful Giant (ft. Justin Wren)Fighter-turned-lover Justin Wren on what it means to fight for a greater purposeOPENING QUOTE:“And so now, whenever I've gotten into a fight and the cage door locks, I'm looking this guy in the eyes and I know that I know, but I also believe that I know he knows, that I have stronger reasons than he does, so I can take him to deeper waters.”-Justin WrenGUEST BIO:Justin Wren knows what it's like to feel like the world is against you. Fueled by anger resulting from persistent bullying, Justin pursued wrestling in high school, where he became a 10x state champion, 5x all-American, and 2x national champion. This propelled his dream of becoming a UFC fighter into reality, becoming a champion and an elite athlete. But the pain from his childhood didn't dissipate, and Justin fell into a spiral of depression and addiction that led him on a path toward destruction. In trying to escape this spiral, Justin visited the rainforest in the Democratic Republic of the Congo where he came across the Mbuti Pygmies, a group of people persecuted by neighboring tribes and forced into slavery.On one of his trips, he stayed for a year, living among them and sharing the culture of what he calls "the most bullied people on earth." His encounter with the pygmies left him wondering who was there to help them. And in that moment, Justin stepped out of the cage and founded the nonprofit organization Fight for the Forgotten. He's become a celebrated keynote speaker, ascending this new mountain with the same discipline and passion that got him to the top of professional sports. Links:WebsiteInstagramTwitterCORE TOPICS + DETAILS:[4:36] - Discover Others to Discover YourselfSelflessness heals our own woundsAfter a long period of depression and hopelessness, how did Justin pull himself out of it? Not by working on himself — but by discovering the service of others. It was when he lost himself in the trials of the Mbuti people that he discovered his own purpose, passion, and personal joy. The lesson for us: if you feel lost, sometimes you're better off looking for the needs of others than looking for yourself.[12:58] - The Winner is the One with the Most Reasons to FightWhat Justin's mindset in the ring teaches us about living outside the ringMany people think that the stronger, better trained fighter is the one who wins. What Justin knows from being in the ring himself is that this isn't always the case. The person who wins is often the one who is less willing to lose. Or, to put it another way, it's the person with the deepest reason to win.When you discover a reason to fight that's deeper than the opponent — and in life, often the opponent isn't a someone but a something — then you'll discover a depth of fortitude you didn't know you had, and a will to win that will help you conquer anything.[16:03] - Change the Fight but Keep FightingWhat we can learn from the world's most loving fighterJustin describes how he went from fighting against people to fighting for people when he discovered his passion for serving the people of the Mbuti culture. But what's worth noting is that Justin didn't change his fighter's spirit. He didn't suddenly become a kumbaya, zen-loving individual who let the world wash over him in peace. Hell no. He kept his fighter's spirit, remained who he was, but applied everything that made him a great fighter to this new fight — the fight for humanity. We can all change our own personal fights without changing what makes us great fighters.[30:46] - Justin's Parting AdviceFor the new, nervous, and unsureJustin acknowledges that taking on big challenges often feels like trying to drain the ocean with an eyedropper. Does it even matter? Will anyon even notice? But Justin reminds us that every drop represents a human heart, a human life, some level of impact that may be small in the grand scale but enormous on the personal scale. Every single positive impact we make, whether it's on a massive keynote stage or in a room of ten people, can transform lives.RESOURCES:[2:10] About the Mbuti People[2:49] Fight for the ForgottenFollow Justin Wren:WebsiteInstagramTwitterFollow Josh Linkner:FacebookLinkedInInstagramTwitterYouTubeABOUT MIC DROP:Hear from the world's top thought leaders and experts, sharing tipping point moments, strategies, and approaches that led to their speaking career success. Throughout each episode, host Josh Linkner, #1 Innovation keynote speaker in the world, deconstructs guests' Mic Drop moments and provides tactical tools and takeaways that can be applied to any speaking business, no matter it's starting point. You'll enjoy hearing from some of the top keynote speakers in the industry including: Ryan Estis, Alison Levine, Peter Sheahan, Seth Mattison, Cassandra Worthy, and many more. Mic Drop is sponsored by ImpactEleven.Learn more at: MicDropPodcast.comABOUT THE HOST:Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He believes passionately that all human beings have incredible creative capacity, and he's on a mission to unlock inventive thinking and creative problem solving to help leaders, individuals, and communities soar. Josh has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million and is the author of four books including the New York Times Bestsellers, Disciplined Dreaming and The Road to Reinvention. He has invested in and/or mentored over 100 startups and is the Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners.Today, Josh serves as Chairman and Co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is the recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, is a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession with greasy pizza. Learn more about Josh: JoshLinkner.comSPONSORED BY IMPACTELEVEN:From refining your keynote speaking skills to writing marketing copy, from connecting you with bureaus to boosting your fees, to developing high-quality websites, producing head-turning demo reels, Impact Eleven (formerly 3 Ring Circus) offers a comprehensive and powerful set of services to help speakers land more gigs at higher fees. Learn more at: impacteleven.comPRODUCED BY DETROIT PODCAST STUDIOS:In Detroit, history was made when Barry Gordy opened Motown Records back in 1960. More than just discovering great talent, Gordy built a systematic approach to launching superstars. His rigorous processes, technology, and development methods were the secret sauce behind legendary acts such as The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross and Michael Jackson.As a nod to the past, Detroit Podcast Studios leverages modern versions of Motown's processes to launch today's most compelling podcasts. What Motown was to musical artists, Detroit Podcast Studios is to podcast artists today. With over 75 combined years of experience in content development, audio production, music scoring, storytelling, and digital marketing, Detroit Podcast Studios provides full-service development, training, and production capabilities to take podcasts from messy ideas to finely tuned hits. Here's to making (podcast) history together.Learn more at: DetroitPodcastStudios.comSHOW CREDITS:Josh Linkner: Host | josh@joshlinkner.comConnor Trombley: Executive Producer | connor@DetroitPodcastStudios.com

Few record labels have left their stamp on the industry quite like Motown. This assembly line churned out hit song after hit song in the ‘60s and early ‘70s. With a who's-who roster — Marin Gaye, The Jackson 5, Diana Ross, and Stevie Wonder, among others — The Hitsville U.S.A. sign Gordy put on Motown's front door became warranted. This episode is the story of Motown Records — it's formula for success, what led to its decline, and where it stands today under Universal. I'm joined by friend of the pod, Zack O'Malley Greenburg. Here's what we covered in this episode:0:38 Berry Gordy's origin story8:08 Motown museum in Detroit9:20 Cultivating a culture of creativity13:05 Shifting the sound of Black music20:12 Motown's knack for discovering talent 34:29 The beginning of the decline36:12 80's decade of transition39:48 Post-Gordy struggles45:51 Motown's uncertainty today53:59 Best signing?55:16 Best business move?568:45 Dark horse move?1:01:58 Biggest missed opportunity?1:07:13 Motown big-screen picture1:09:22 Berry Gordy won big1:10:41 Who lost the most?1:14:56 Zack's Jay Z indexListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Zack O'Malley Greenburg, @zogblogThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.TRANSCRIPT[00:00:00] Zack Greenburg: Berry Gordy created with Motown and sort of the Motown genre, which I think really like more than any label has become synonymous beyond just sort of like the name of label itself, you say Motown music, and a testament to the sound that he created,[00:00:13] Dan Runcie Audio Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:38] Dan Runcie Guest Intro: Today's episode is a deep dive into the one and only legendary Motown records. At its peak, Motown was the most successful black business in the country. It peaked at 30 million dollars of revenue in 1968 and Barry Gordy and his team assembled a sound. a unique genre of music that produced hit after hit after hit and Hitsville USA lived up to its promise.So in this episode, we take you through the origins of how Motown came to be. What are some of the business principles and strategies that worked in its favor? And then what are some of the challenges that Motown faced too? It's now been 50 years since the peak of Motown. And this record label has had plenty of ups and downs and plenty of journeys that we went deep on in this episode. And I'm joined by Zach Greenburg He is a biographer of Jay Z and several others, and he also wrote about Michael Jackson. And in that he talked about Michael Jackson's time with Motown, especially in the Jackson 5. So we had a lot of fun in this one. So come take a trip down memory lane with us. Here's our episode on Motown.[00:01:42] Dan Runcie: All right. Today we're back with another case study style episode, and we're going deep into Hitsville, USA. Motown, baby. Let's do this, Zack, I'm excited for this one.[00:01:53] Zack Greenburg: Thanks for having me as always.[00:01:55] Dan Runcie: Berry Gordy is so fascinating because At one point, this was the most successful black business. They're the most successful black entrepreneur in the country invented a genre.And it's so hard to be able to do that. And that legacy still lives on today. We know so many record labels that have taken inspiration from what Berry Gordy built with Motown records, but let's start from the beginning. What inspired Berry Gordy to even want to get involved with music in the first place?[00:02:23] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. So, you know, Berry Gordy, and his family were in the Detroit area, you know, a bunch of serial entrepreneurs, get a record shop early on, but he was actually like semi professional boxer coming up. And, think one thing led to another and you just kind of saw that, you know, there was a market that was not being served in music.you know, certainly like the business was concentrated, on the coast and particularly in New York at that time, you know, eventually more in LA, but. you know, there was some stuff going on in Chicago. there was some regional acts, regional labels, things like that. But, you know, I think he just basically saw an opportunity, to start something.And, you know, sort of in the way that if you look at, Richard Branson or Puffy or, you know, what are those types of entrepreneurs? It's almost It doesn't really matter what they get into. They find a way to make it work. and they're just always on the lookout for a new sector. That's, kind of, you know, right for some creative destruction, know, and some refreshing or some freshening, some revising, I don't know, whatever you would call it.And, you know, in the case of Berry Gordy. Kind of amazingly, when you think about music over the past half century, he looked around and he thought, well, this is actually, this is a sector that is very promising amongst all the sectors that I could possibly get into. So, that's how Motown came to pass.[00:03:36] Dan Runcie: That point about whether it's Diddy, Branson, Gordy, and I think a lot of the tech CEOs fall in this category as well. You're going to put them in any generation. And I do think that these people would have found a way to make things work. And that's the same point you're making, right? He saw an opportunity to music, but let's say he came 30 years later.It could have been another aspect. Let's say he came today, probably could have been trying to do something in AI or even figure it out, how to make AI, be transformative with his music. And I think a lot of his work, whether you think about how he built derivative work or how he had this process with artists that we'll get into so much of it taps into, okay, here's an opportunity to optimize things.Here's how we can make things work. And music just happened to be the format. He chose it.[00:04:21] Zack Greenburg: Absolutely. And even, you know, when you think about it, he got started sort of mid century 30 years later, he was looking into other things, getting involved in film and TV. And You know, moving the business out West, but, you know, we'll get there eventually, but, he certainly did, you know, find other ways to extend the Motown brand as time went on.[00:04:37] Dan Runcie: So he starts off, he has this record business and things go okay with that. specifically talking about the store. And that was a lot of it was connected a bit more from the family perspective, but then he ends up getting the job at Ford specifically working with that Lincoln mercury plant. And that's when he was only there for 2 years, but he then sees how the process works and the whole concept of Ford is, which is that assembly line process that Henry Ford has been famous for.He sees that and then he taps back into his opportunities with music and he's like, okay. Okay, there's an opportunity to do the same with music. So he sees this assembly line, essentially have all these parts go through the inputs. And then the output, you get this car, he wanted to be able to pull some kid off the street, bring them into the Motown and bring them into this record label facility.And then outcomes a star. And he felt like he had the ability to be able to create that type of dynamic. And it took some time to get there, but that's essentially what he did. And a lot of the creations of what we saw from Hitsville USA was that exactly.[00:05:48] Zack Greenburg: Absolutely. And, he'll tell you that, I've interviewed him a couple of times. Once for Forbes, once for my book, Michael Jackson Inc, where he talked a lot about that. And, you know, he really has a formula, for making a hit song. And, you know, it's sort of like the song has to have a clear beginning, middle at an end. The chorus has to have a sort of grand arc that summarizes the song every time it happens.And then there's a sort of like grand finale bridge ending thing that, brings it all together, always at the end you hear the artist shout out the song's name almost, you know, invariably one last time and you know, that's like pure marketing, right? And you think about it in those days, this great songs on, you're hearing it, but like, you know, maybe you're in the car, it's on the radio, maybe you're artist and a record player.It's not popping up on your phone. So you know what it's called when you hear Michael Jackson shout out, I want you back at the end and I want you back. what you're going to go out and buy, you know what, you're going to call in, you know, to the radio station and ask them to play. So, it's very calculated, it really works and it's proven and, you know, if it sort of seems like, gosh. You know, this is like a cliche. This is obvious. I think part of it is because he helped create this cliche, obvious thing, right? I mean, things become cliche or obvious because they're smart or necessary most of the time.So, you know, at some point it was novel and, you know, very corny, I think was part of, making that whole song structure novel. And, you know, really. When you look at how he executed it, you know, I think a modern day analog, we talked about this, you know, before on our bad boy episode, but so, you know, his role was very much like the Puffy role, or at least the early Puffy role in production. So, you know, he had a hand in songwriting and production, but, you know, mostly he figured out who he wanted to have producing his labels, songs and sort of who he wanted to be in charge of authoring that certain type of sound.So for Berry Gordy, it was a handful of, producers called the corporation, just like Puffy had the Hitmen. And, you know, then he would kind of come in and do his own little thing on top when he thought it was necessary. But, you know, in a way it kind of adds that whole assembly line aspect, right? Where, you know, that there's going to be a certain level of quality, there's going to be like a distinctive sound, whether it's a bad boy or Motown, or, you know, even going back to, you know, what a Ford car was, you know, in those days you had kind of an ideology to get.And I think that's one of the things that really set Motown apart.[00:08:08] Dan Runcie: Exactly. And I think with that too, you have him going through the process of starting this. So this record label started with an 800 with 800. That's what he had initially. And he uses that to then start Hitsville USA. So that's the location on Grand Ave in Detroit.Have you been to this museum by the way?[00:08:30] Zack Greenburg: I did. We did a special event there. One time we had the Forbes 30 under 30, Summit and we did this like, special, like one off private interview where I went there with Quavo and we sat in Motown studios, you know, where Michael Jackson and all them had recorded. and we did a little like video discussion on the state of the music business, I think it's floating around the internet somewhere, but, it's a really cool building. I mean, I think what strikes. Me the most, you know, like the first time I went in is like the fact that just a house.I mean, it really just looks like a house. the rooms are sort of like room size, you know, it's not some sprawling like, you know, I don't know, institutional type place like a lot of modern, recording studios, you know, it's just a converted house but you know, you kind of walk through each room and it's museum and everything now, so you can kind of get a feel for it. It's very different from the modern day glitz and glamour of the record business for sure.[00:09:20] Dan Runcie: Yeah, been there twice. it was really cool because just like you said, you feel like you're actually in a home and that's the vibe that the studio gives you. And I felt like the people that were the tour guides as well, they clearly knew their history in a way where it should sound obvious, but that could obviously be hit or miss with museum sometimes.So I felt like that piece of it was good. And it ties back to a few things that tap into the culture that it is. Gordy wanted to create that. I think make it work. He lived upstairs. Studio is downstairs. So he has everything there and he wanted to make this somewhere that creativity could spawn at any particular moment.So he wanted to create a 24/7. Set up where he had made sure the vending machines were always stocked. So people could stay there year, you know, day in day out. If creativity comes to you at 3 p. m. or 3 a. m. you can go right there and do what you have to do. And you could keep things moving there internally.And this is one of the things that I do think worked really well for them because. Although I think the music industry has gotten away from this, there was this era where the culture and the vibe that you could create from a label and all that continuity really helped things. So when you saw how deliberate he was from an assembly line perspective was essentially keeping his product in place and keeping all the materials in place so that it can produce outputs at any given moments to just increase the likelihood that you could have hits coming time and time again.[00:10:49] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I mean, he certainly spoke a lot about, quality control, which is, it's kind of funny, you know, given the eventual QC relationship, but, you know, I think that's a really big part of it. And when you're that hands on and, you know, in some cases you could say micromanaging, but it does enable you to really have a unified.We can also get into this, fact that at some point it can become a bit of a creative constraint for artists as they mature.[00:11:14] Dan Runcie: Right, because with quality control, there was someone on the team that listened to everything that came through Motown and they essentially picked the best. They brought it to this weekly meeting and most of the Motown artists weren't writing or producing their materials necessarily, but they were going in and you had all these artists that would essentially sing.The same exact song and then they would pick the best version that came out of that to then release the song. Sometimes they had multiple artists that would end up releasing a version. And we saw different versions of this where you had both Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye have their versions of Ain't No Mountain high enough.Granted it was a few years later in different songs, but a lot of that stems from that quality control aspect. And there's this one quote that, was here from One of the books that was written about, Berry Gordy and Motown, where they talked about quality control and they said, quote, the artists were a means to an end in a way, end quote.And that's exactly what we're talking about how the downside is that it could limit creativity, but the upside is that it gives you the opportunity to get the best polished diamond from all of the creations that come from this studio.[00:12:24] Zack Greenburg: Absolutely. And man, there were quite a few, right? I mean, when you look through, I mean, the heydays, Smokey Robinson, the Miracles, Diana Ross, the Supremes, Four Tops, Marvin Gaye, coming into, you know, Michael Jackson, the Jackson 5, you know, think we've talked about in our previous discussions about hip hop, you know, like sort of the staying power, of different labels and, you know, and how you can kind of keep identifying talent and keep it coming. I mean, that's quite a breadth You know, of like musical accomplishment that they've got, that you could say that Berry Gordy identified over the years.So, you know, I would really, obviously I'd put him up against any other, identify any A& R, any, you know, music mogul in the history of the business, for sure.[00:13:05] Dan Runcie: I agree. And I think the other thing that's interesting too, is This taps back into the whole process and quality management things. Berry Gordy really wanted to help shift the sound and direction of this label because at the time, black music and music that was made by black artists was quite segmented where people didn't feel like it could reach beyond a certain audience.And he experienced some of this himself. One of the reasons that his record stores closed was because he was focused primarily on jazz music. At the time, even Black folks weren't really into jazz at that particular moment. So he just didn't have the market to be able to continue this. So I think that helps Chase Motower.He says, okay, I want the music that's able to be listened to by everyone. I want Black people to ride with it. I want white people. I want anyone in America to be able to ride with the same way that people would listen to the Beach Boys. And he had a few more interesting things that were part of this process.One, everyone had an etiquette coach. And these are things that we're teaching them, essentially, how you have black people essentially speak to white people. Granted, I think there's a lot of that that is problematic. That probably wouldn't fly into the same ways today, just given some of the language there.but then additionally, he also had white salesmen that were essentially the ones that were promoting the records in different areas, going to different radio stations. And he would go as far to insert in records that he's promoting to not even show the artist on the cover because he wanted the record to reach.And he didn't want people to necessarily immediately see or relate it to a black artist, which I thought was interesting, but lined up with a lot of these things. So, even though some of the choices clearly were problematic, it probably wouldn't fly at the same way today. That's how he was about process and wanting to essentially be able to sell this talent anywhere in the country.[00:15:01] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, and it's especially remarkable when you sort think of the cultural context of, you know, of when this is all happening in the 60s. You know, I mean, this is a time of great polarization and social change and, you know, really like turmoil, in a lot of ways, disunity, but, what Berry Gordy created with Motown and sort of the Motown genre, which I think really like more than any label has become synonymous like a genre, you know, beyond just sort of like the name of label itself, you say Motown music, and you're talking about like a genre, as much as you're talking about a label, the fact that you'd be able to sort of create that it like in the 60s, even the late 60s, when things were really why we think we're polarized now.I mean, the late sixties, oh my gosh. Like what a testament to the sort of the sound that he created, which, you know, just like bridged all these divides and, you know, you obviously still go to any wedding, black, white, you know, at anything. And, you're gonna hear Motown all over the place.So I think that kind of goes back to what he created, you know, even at the time. being so accessible to so many different audiences and, you know, one of the things he told me, when I interviewed him, he said that, Martin Luther King came to see him, in Detroit, at the peak of the civil rights movement.And apparently, according to Gary Gordy, MLK said, he said, what I'm trying to do politically and intellectually, you're doing with your music. I love the feeling people get when they hear your music. And so maybe we can make a deal. And they made a deal to actually put out some of MLK's greatest speeches.They put out three albums on Motown and Gordy kind of summed it up by saying, if you do the right thing will come to you. So I thought that was such a cool. Little nugget that people don't necessarily realize. and, you know, I think people don't, think of Berry Gordy as like avant garde, you know, civil rights activist or anything, but, he kind of approached it in his own way, which was to make this music that could, you know, that could really bring people together.They could also get black culture, you know, into the mainstream us culture, at the same time. And, you know, I mean, we saw that, you know, decades later with hip hop, but. Berry Gordy, you know, he made that blueprint, you know, very, very, very early on.[00:17:03] Dan Runcie: It's a great story because I think it highlights the complexity and that people just aren't in these corners. And as you mentioned, Berry Gordy wasn't known for his civil rights activism. In many ways, people would often point to things that he may have shied away from, where I remember, especially in the 70s when you started to hear a bit more of a pacifist and things like that, there was a push and people wanted Motown to lead more into this and he necessarily wasn't as eager at the time and I remember even Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, one of the biggest records that was ever made.There was tension leading up to that because Gordy was like, wait, what is this? you want to do this? Like, what are we doing here? And then it eventually gets made. And then you see how I feel like every time that one of these publications has one of the greatest songs ever made, I'm sure it's come up on number one, or at least on several, one of these.So you see that, and you've seen other areas where he clearly has leaned into this, but I do think that his. Place in his role at that time, often highlighted some of that ongoing tension that we've seen from black leaders over the years about people want progress, but what's the best way to agree with this?And you date back to some of the more public debates between folks like Booker T. Washington and W. E. B. Dubois about what is the best way for black progress and group economics and things like that. And I feel like Berry Gordy clearly was on a Particular side of that, that not everyone may have agreed with, but he clearly still wanted to be able to help progress things in a particular way.So he's a very fascinating figure as we look at this progression, especially in the 20th century.[00:18:42] Zack Greenburg: Well, that's right. And, you know, I think there's a reason you see him put out MLK speeches. I don't, think he put up Malcolm X's speeches, you know, but that was just sort of his approach, right? He was more Martin than Malcolm.And, you know, obviously you could speak to the merits of either method, but, Berry Gordon definitely, had his preference there.[00:18:59] Dan Runcie: The other thing that I want to talk about, you mentioned it earlier, but the talent and the breadth of talent that was in this place is such a constraint and such a valuable time.It's one of those things where just imagine walking through on a, some day in, let's say 1964, you're just walking through Motown and all of the names that you could just see there making music on a Wednesday afternoon. It's crazy to think of the names and also how he found folks because. Look at Smokey Robinson and Smokey Robinson, the miracles essentially end up releasing shop around, which I do think ends up becoming the first true hit that, or the first, hit single that comes from Motown.He found that he found Smokey on a street corner performing almost, and in many ways, it feels similar to. What we see decades later with Sylvia Robinson driving around the New Jersey tri state area, finding hip hop artists for Sugar Hill Gang. This is how these early entrepreneurs did it. They were the talent development.They saw things and granted it was a much less crowded market. So the people that were pushing music onto folks had a little bit easier time breaking through, but it was still tough, especially at the time. And he was able to make it work in that way, which was, cool.[00:20:13] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I mean, he actually did. And, you know, of course, like the one group that we haven't talked about too much yet is Jackson and sort of the way that, different groups were signed in those days, you know, they're all the stories about, well, you hear, you see somebody busking and you sign them and this and that.And, sort of some of the stories, though, if you talk to a lot of different people, you get, you talk to 3 people, you get 3 different stories. Right? So, I think for my book on MJ, I talked to. His dad, I talked to Berry Gordy and I talked to the guy who signed them to this little record company called Steel Town in Gary, Indiana.And they all had three different versions of, you know, how it went down, right? And so, there's that old saying, basically that the winners get to write history and, you know, Berry Gordy won. So, you know, whether his version is a hundred percent, accurate or not, that's kind of the version that, you know, we tend to hear I think his version is usually correct, but there's definitely some, you know, embellishment or some showmanship from time to time.So, you know, I think, for example, with the Jackson 5, Berry Gordy decided to put out, I think it was their first album as Diana Ross presents the Jackson 5 and, you know, she had this little thing where she's like, I discovered this group from Gary, Indiana and like blah, blah, blah, and that wasn't really how it happened at all.And it was really, you know, depending on who you ask, but I think what happened is Suzanne DePasse, who was one of Berry Gordy's lieutenants, had discovered them, and I think it was, there's another band who heard them, like sent them along to Suzanne DePasse that like, she kind of did the legwork for Berry Gordy.And it was like many times, many. Kind of connections later that Diana Ross, you know, became connected, to the group. but, you know, it's such a better story, right? Like Diana Ross has found these kids from, from the Midwest and, you know, bringing them out, onto Motown. So. I always think that's, kind of funny how, the stories end up getting presented and, you know, when you hear it from everybody else involved, I mean, and Diana Ross, of course, did become, really instrumental and especially Michael's life, as time went on, moved to LA and I think she, he actually lived with her for a little while while they were, you know, making the move and all this stuff, but, you know, it, didn't exactly start out that way.[00:22:18] Dan Runcie: Right. And the Jackson 5 is interesting because they, in many ways were the last group that came through in the heyday of Motown because the heyday we're really talking about is that 50 to 60s run that we've been talking about with a lot of the groups and the artists that we mentioned, especially young Marvin Gaye, young Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross and the Supremes.And then Jackson 5 comes along. But they come along towards the end of the decade. And just for some context setting, in 1968, Motown is doing 30 million in revenue. And they at one point had a 65% hit rate on the songs that they released in terms of actually being able to chart. So the highs were quite high and they were, killing it.The thing is, though, in the early 70s, this is where things start to shift a little bit, because at this point, Berry has his eyes set much bigger, and he wants to move beyond things in Detroit, because of course he was in the Hitsville, U.S.A. house, solely, after the riots that happened and there was some damage there, they ended up expanding things closer.they ended up expanding further in Detroit to just get a bigger size studio there as well. But then, he eventually wants to go to Hollywood so that he could get more into film. He wants to get into production for plays. He wants to bring these artists on the big screen. And it makes sense. We see why this is a huge medium.You saw how much, popular this talent is. And if you can get people to see them and buy into this, visual image that he's clearly curated, no different than we saw someone like Diddy decades later curating things, he wanted to do that. And I think that in many ways, this was one of those big challenges that any leader can have.Do you stay with the thing that's working really well? Or do you try to expand? And when you do expand, how do you find out? How do you make sure that you have the best talent around you? How do you make sure that you're well equipped? And I think that bowtie really started to strain because as things started to grow for the label, a lot of the artists started to feel like they were getting neglected because of these broader ambitions.And that in many ways, now we're dating 50 plus years ago to like 1972 timeframe. That's when a lot of ways was the beginning of the end, at least in terms of the Motown that a lot of people grew up with and knew.[00:24:41] Zack Greenburg: I think so for sure. And, you know, I think as an entrepreneur, you have to seek the next thing, right? I mean, you don't want to stagnate and you kind of have to take the risk and go for the next big thing and maybe you succeed and maybe you don't, and I think that's at least the way we've been conditioned to think. On the other hand, there could be an argument for like, we don't need to have this growth at all costs mindset as a society, you know, what's wrong with having a really awesome business that's just like constantly, you know, successful has happy employees, you know, that kind of thing. But, I guess that's, you know, this is, you know, Trapital not, you know, Trapsocialism, I dunno, we're talking within a certain realm of, you know, of economic, styles and systems.So that's what's gotta happen. And that's what Berry Gordy decided to do, you know, by moving everything to LA but we talked, a while ago about John McClain, and his role in kind of in, in the past few decades as an executive. He's somebody who rarely talks, but somebody interviewed him at some point.He said that he thought that moving to LA was, kind of the beginning of the end for Motown, because it, kind of changed Motown from being a trendsetter to being a trend follower. And, I think I agree with that. And, you know, that's not to say that there wasn't additional success, especially, you know, beyond the recorded music business that occurred. And that moving to LA kind of, you know, like supercharged some of that, but yeah, you know, I mean, I think when Motown was in the Motor City, in its namesake place, like, You know, it was sort of like, I don't say the only game in town cause there were other labels, but I think it was sort of, the main game in town and, being in a place that, you know, wasn't sort of the epicenter of the music business allowed it to have kind of its own unique style and not sort of be influenced as much by what else was going on.And, you know, don't forget in those days, it wasn't like everything was, you know, it wasn't like we were all tuning into the same social media channels. you know, we weren't even like really tuned into cable TV or anything like that, you know, there wasn't the same kind of like national culture that there is today that, you know, where trends just kind of like fly across in a second. And things did kind of take time to move from one place to the other. throughout the country. So, you know, there was like a certain regionalism to it that I think set Motown apart and, you know, maybe you lose a little bit, you know, once you're out in LA, but, you know, certainly around that time, you really start to see some of the artists who wanted more creative freedom, leaving, you know, some others pushing back, you know, I think even within, a few years of moving to LA, the Jackson 5, we're kind of, having some issues with Motown and in terms of, you know, can we make some of our own types of music? You know, do we really have to stick to quite the assembly line? So, yeah, I do think it was a mixed bag for Berry Gordy to head west.[00:27:20] Dan Runcie: And this is where things really started to struggle because a lot of what worked for Berry Gordy was so perfect for. The Hitsville USA West Grand Ave mentality of building everything there and not to say that he was only an early stage founder that couldn't necessarily progress. But I think a lot of the processes he had were more fit for that era. So naturally, you see the growing success of the Jackson 5 and Michael is no longer 9 years old.He is at this point now a full on teenager, but unfortunately, it just didn't quite. Progress in a few things, as you mentioned, you wanted more, they wanted more creative control. They also wanted to have a bit more ownership. There were disputes about royalties. And I remember reading something that said that the Jackson 5 had calculated how much they got.And it was only a 2.3% stake of how much revenue was either coming through or would be coming through in the future. And they see this and they're like, okay, well how can we see our opportunity to get more of that? So then they leave for Epic. And then you also saw a handful of artists at this point were already on their ways out and things were definitely starting to look a little bit more bleak because by the time you get to the end of the seventies, the beginning of 1980s, The music industry was already, granted things are cyclical, but they were starting to sour a bit on black music.This was the end of disco and people wanted nothing to do with that genre. And even though Motown wasn't disco necessarily, there was vibes of the types of artists they were trying to naturally capture in the 70s. So then that had all of black music taking a hit in a lot of ways and there were groups like the barge and others that I think they tried to make work. Obviously, I think Stevie Wonder was a mainstay during all this and that worked out really well for them, but he was really just 1 mainstay. You did have Marvin Gaye, but again, still, it just wasn't necessarily. The same, and I think that they definitely started to struggle even more at that particular moment.And even as early as the 80s, you start to see more of that narrative that honestly, you still hear today about recapturing that Motown magic or recapturing that Motown journey. People have been saying this now for 40 years.[00:29:40] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, for sure. And I think one thing that people forget is that even though the Jackson 5 moved on to Epic, you know, and that's where MJ ended up, you know, Epic and CBS, and, that's where MJ ended up launching a solo career, people forget that Jermaine actually stayed at Motown initially. He had married Berry Gordy's daughter and, you know, they had this whole wedding with like, you know, 150 white doves were released and, you know, they had this, you know, kind of fairytale situation. And apparently, Berry said to Jermaine, like, Hey, you can go with your brothers and stay with me, whatever you want.And, you know, knowing Berry, I think he maybe didn't put it that delicately or, you know, that was kind of a huge break from Motown because you know, he had really taken the Jackson 5 under his wing. They used to have, Gordy versus Jackson family, baseball games. Michael Jackson would play catcher. It was very So, you know, I think Tito was like the big power hitter, is what I heard. but yeah, for, you know, I mean, these were two families that were really intricately linked. And I think ultimately it kind of came down to, you know, there was some creative control issues, but, you know, Joe Jackson was, pretty controlling, Berry Gordy was pretty controlling and at some point, you know, it just, I think it became impossible for them to coexist.And so, Joe kind of guided them over to Epic to get that big deal, but, you know, Jermaine. It wasn't obvious that Michael was going to be, you know, by far the superstar of all the Jacksons. And, you know, Jermaine did seem at the time to be like the one who had the most promising solo career, or at least it was, you know, pretty close.And, you know, he never really found his niche is a solo act and eventually it would go on to get back every night with his brothers and go on tours and that sort of thing.[00:31:22] Dan Runcie: I think that's a good distinction because people will often point to and think about what are the big nine and then he drops off the wall. This isn't what happened. There's a pretty big difference between those few years. No difference than anyone where naturally there's a difference between a 15 year, but there were others that experienced.So many of the artists that ended up leaving at that particular year old artist and a 19 year old artist. You're a completely different person at that point. And that's exactly what we ended up seeing with Michael. So missed opportunity for sure missed opportunities that Motown had, we'll get to miss opportunities in a minute, but you often hear people talk about them not being able to keep Michael, but to your point, the Jackson 5 leaving Motown in 1975, 76, isn't the same as.Them leaving in 1970 time ended up having greater,success once they were able to have a bit of freedom after leaving Motown, which was a bit unfortunate because obviously, I think it would have been great to see them continue that success under Berry Gordy's umbrella and continue to see them grow.But not everyone is going to be Stevie Wonder. Not everyone is there to say, Hey, I'm with you until the end. And I'm going to be riding with you during this entire journey. It just doesn't work that way. People have careers. No different. You see them today where people see a bigger opportunity and the grass is greener.They want to take advantage of that, especially if they don't feel like they are being put in the best position to thrive. So in the 80s, Motown is now officially in its transition recovery mode, trying to recapture what was there and we see a few things happen.So they start leading in on debarge. And a lot of people, DeBarge did have a pretty big hit with Rhythm of the Night, but I do think that they tried to make the DeBarge family replicate some of this Jackson family, where you had El DeBarge, and you had all of these others, but it just didn't quite click, at least in a mainstream way to that perspective, but then you did have Lionel Richie, who did end up having a pretty big career, especially with everything he had done since the, Commodores and, but then you also had Berry Gordy's son that they were also trying to work into the mix, who performed under the name Rockwell, who had had that song, somebody's watching me that Michael had sung the hook on.So you had a few things there, but just didn't exactly click because again, it's stuck in two models. Berry wanted to continue to have complete control over it. And the artists just didn't want that anymore. I think that worked when you were literally giving artists. No giving artists in a region of the country like Detroit a platform and opportunity, but they had no other options.But now they had leverage. Now they could go talk to mca Now they could go talk to CBS Epic and some of these other labels. So Berry's mentality just didn't work as much. And then by 1988 is when we see him transition on from the label, at least as the CEO level. And then we start to see the new blood come in to run the record label.[00:34:30] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. I mean, I think it is important to note that, you know, although you could characterize the 80s as sort of like musical decline era for Motown, you know, in the way that many artists are entrepreneurs, like, seem to be in a period of delays over some decade or whatever, they actually get much richer during that period of malaise, because what they had built before was so good.And there's still kind of like, they're finally cashing in on it, whereas maybe they didn't cash in on it when it first happened. But like, enough of the sort of like older, wealthier decision makers who can pay them more are like, finally getting hip to the fact that, you know, this is a big deal.So, I would definitely think about Motown that context and that, you know, when Berry was able to sell, you know, a huge chunk, of the company kind of like step back from it, that was after like a a period of time when Motown was not as hot as it had been.But you had things going on, like Motown 25 in 1983, that special. Put together, where MJ came back and reunited, with his brothers and the whole Motown crew and he had, you know, all these other artists, but that was actually the first time I think that MJ moonwalked, you know, sort of in public, like you know, he sort of like the popular debut of the moonwalk and it just really kind of, Created, so much buzz around that, that then kind of rubbed off on Motown and didn't really matter whether he wasn't on Motown anymore, but it just kind of gave a little more shine to the label and gave it sort of like, a relevance, I think that helped kind of carry through to the end of the 80s and helped get Berry Gordy, this really big payday.So, I wouldn't discount like You know, I don't know the sort of like delayed reaction that sort of the half life of fame or whatever you want to call it. But, there were still some of these moments that were created, that kept paying dividends as the time went on. I think[00:36:13] Dan Runcie: That's a fair point because he also sold at this smart time when right as we're seeing in this current era that we're recording, it's a very hot time for music asset transactions as were the late 80s and early 90s too. That's when you saw Geffen do many of the deals that he had done and Gordy. Did the same where I believe he made 61 million from the sale, or at least his portion of the sale in 1988, which is huge.You didn't see people, especially black business owners that fully owned everything being able to cash out at that level. So that's a good point. I'm glad that you mentioned that. And with this is when we start to see the transition of leadership. And we start to see a few things that do ring true.Where the first person that takes over is Gerald Busby, who was leading black music at MCA at the time. And even though Motown had had a bit of its malaise in the 1980s, MCA did not, in many ways, it was seen as the leader in black music. And Bubsy was able to. Have quite a good amount of success there with all of the work that he had done.the thing is though, he had started to run into some issues because he was in this weird dynamic where this company, Polygram had owned part of the label, as did Boston Ventures, his private equity group, and Bubsy was at odds with the folks at Boston Ventures about. some creative control. And he had this quote where he says he'd rather quit Motown president than see the label become a cash cow for a huge corporation trafficking off of nostalgia.And that was a quote that was said back in the 90s just thinking about how. Similar, some of those quotes now come to today. And this was someone who was largely credited from helping to say blast black music from that disco era. But unfortunately, I think a lot of those tensions that he had had, at the time just made life a little bit more difficult for him at Motown.So he eventually we Left. And while he was there, he was able to at least get a few things under. Like he was the one that had brought in voice to men. He had Queen Latifah there. He had Johnny Gill, who was another artist at the time that was quite popular, but maybe hadn't necessarily lived on in the way.And his dreams were, he wanted to have Motown cafes, the same way you had hard rock cafes. He wanted to have the young acts going and touring around at different places to recreate that vibe. And this is something that we'll get into. I think we see time and time again, where these leaders have all these dreams and visions for what they see.Motown can be, but because of the powers that be because of other things, they just can't quite get there to make it happen.[00:38:51] Zack Greenburg: Yeah. And I think that one of the things that set Motown apart early on, you know, as sets many startups apart early on, and many record companies are early on is that they were independent and they could do whatever they wanted.And, you know, Berry Gordy was, sort of like the unquestioned leader and, you know, things kind of, in the way that things kind of get done, let's say more efficiently, if not, more equitably in dictatorships, like he could just get shit done, move things around, have it happen immediately. And so when you started to have, you know, these corporate parents, parent companies, you know, you'd have to go through all these layers of approval to do anything.And, kind of like stop being able to be agile. and I think that's especially important in the music business when, you know, you have to. Not be reactive, but proactive, right? You have to be ahead of things. So, you know, if you're getting to a point where you're having to wait on approvals and things like that, you've already lost because you should have been out in front to begin with.[00:39:48] Dan Runcie: And this is something that I think plagued Motown time and time again, because Gordy didn't necessarily operate in this way. He had so many people that wanted to replicate what he did, but they didn't have the same parameters and the same leeway to make those decisions. As you mentioned, they're now working for corporations that now have their own vested interest.And to be frank, one of the tensions that we see often in music is that these brazen, bold leaders want to be able to take big swings and do things that are innovative and off the cuff. And these corporations are hard set pressed on efficiency. They don't want to see overspending. They don't want to see over commitments, or they want to be able to feel like this is being run in a strategic way.This is something that in the Interscope episode that we talked about, Jimmy Iveen struggled with this as well, even as recently as his tenure with Apple music. But this is one of those frequent tensions that happens with music executives. And we saw that continue with the person that replace Busby, which is Andre Harrell.We talked about him a bit in the Bad Boy episode, but Andre, of course, at this time was coming fresh off of Uptown Records where he was working in collaboration with MCA and he was able to build a little bit of his own fiefdom there where granted he still had people he had to answer to, but I think he had a pretty good relationship with the folks at MCA up until the end there.Then he goes to Motown and he sees this opportunity. And there's a few things that stick out about this because. As early as a year ago, he was starting to get rumored as to be the next person to then take over. But then he gets 250k as an initial announcement. He takes out this full page ad, New York Times.And then he has this ad that essentially says from Uptown to Motown, it's on. And it's him sitting in the back of the chair and you see a sweatshirt in the back. And people hated it. People grilled him. The way that they talked about him, the trades and even Russell Simmons and others coming in and giving him shit about it.He had pretty verbal flight fights with Clarence Avon, who was pretty powerful at the time. And Clarence even said he had swung on him at one particular point and was quite critical of him as well. There's this one quote that I think was really funny here, where this was from the Netflix documentary that was, The Black Godfather, which was about Clarence Avon.And, or actually, no, this is before this summer variety interview, but they talked about this as well. The doc, Clarence says, Andre and I didn't get along. And then he pointed to an image of the Motown boy band, 98 degrees. And Avon says, Andre wanted to send these white boys to Harlem to make them sound black.And I was like, you're out of your fucking mind. And it's a funny quote, because I do think that 98 degrees. Maybe didn't exactly have as many hits as they probably would have thought, but in Andre Harrell's defense, and sadly, but true, the mentality wasn't necessarily wrong because of the 90s, the most successful Motown act that you had was Boyz II Men, and we saw at the end of the decade that, what's that guy's name, the con artist that had the boy bands, Lou Pearlman, like, he literally modeled Backstreet Boys and NSYNC after How can I find white boys to men and make them see modern contemporary and make this happen?And that's how he was able to have success there. And that was before, what's his name? That was before Andre Harrell was really getting going. So he saw where things were going. But it just didn't click at the time. It just wasn't right. And obviously 90 degrees ends up having some decent success, but that's well after Andre Harrell had left the label.So he ended up leaving and the press was not kind to him. Literally headlines were. Andre Harrell gets fired from LA Times it's a type of headline that we probably don't see now when record label execs get fired in the same way. I think the industry is much more controlled in its PR sometimes to a fault, but it was very interesting to see that, come through. And another interesting quote from that, Lucian Grange had called the Andre Harrell at Motown relationship, an organ rejection. In terms of the relationship there.[00:43:56] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, no, I mean, and it's kind of interesting if you think about, you know, around that same time. What was going on in the music business, what would have been a great fit at Motown that didn't happen, would have been to sign Eminem, right? I mean, rather than try to do it with 98 degrees, if you really want to go and sort of like figure out what the kids are listening to, and do the thing where you have a white guy making black music, like. Holy shit. There's Eminem from Detroit, you know, doing his thing. But, you know, I think it took different kind of Andre to pull that one off.So, you know, in a way well played, you know, I mean, in a way it was like Andre was maybe Andre Harrell was taking some risks, but he wasn't taking quite enough. Like, he wasn't going far enough. He wasn't going way out enough on a limb. So, if you were really going to try to read that Motown, then that then go all the way at the same time, though, I would argue.I mean, if you look back, it's sort of like what worked with Motown and what did it, I think one of Motown's greatest attributes is also a limiting factor. And that's the thing we talked about before it, it's a label, but it's also a genre. And so if you have Motown making hip hop, it's like, wait a minute this isn't Motown. Like this isn't the genre of Motown. Like this is not the thing that I heard at my aunt's wedding, you know, this is something different. So, I think that they got kind of caught in between and I know that they've done all this stuff in hip hop over the years and, whatever, but it still doesn't feel like quite a fit because Motown, I mean that, you know, Motown was Motown, Motown wasn't hip hop and, you know, maybe if it had started getting into hip hop in the early days of hip hop.you know, it would have felt a little bit different about that, but, you know, hip hop is Def Jam, hip hop is is Roc-A-Fella hip hop is Bad Boy, and I just, you know, for all the efforts that Motown has made to get into hip hop, I think, it, has had a hard time, you know, fully sticking in the way that it would need to for Motown to replicate its, early success.[00:45:51] Dan Runcie: And one of the things that I think that a lot of these post Berry Gordy leaders struggled with was... As you mentioned, yeah, with Andre Harrell or others, there was the desire and opportunity to be able to do more, but the combination of the corporate structures in place that just didn't give them the same freedom that a Berry Gordy himself would have had.And then secondly. The business structure of how Motown itself as a company was set up didn't necessarily allow that because even things like radio or promotion and things like that, they still relied on other labels under the corporate umbrella, even to this day to get some of those things in place.So it really wasn't. Given the same freedom, even though their name, especially in the late 90s early two thousands was used in, especially back then it was the whole universal Republic Motown group or whatever the amalgamation was at the time. It really wasn't given the same freedom as some of those other record labels were.And I think we saw those challenges come in from time with some of the other leaders as well, because. Afterward, after, Harrell left, you had George Jackson who was there, felt like a bit more interim there for a couple of years. And then you had Kedar Mazenberg who was there late 90s early 2000.And that was a bit more than Neo soul vibe. You had India, Ari and a few others, but he has this quote that he gave to the independent, 2000 where he says, but we're not going to dominate the pop charts. Like we used to, how can we, there are too many other companies out there for that. So please don't compare it to the Motown of yesteryear.This is someone that is in the leadership role saying that exact quote. like How do you get past that? And then he talks again. I think they made a comparison to Def Jam where he said, you know, Def Jam, it took 10, 20 years to get to this established guidance, the way that you did with someone like a Lyor Cohen.And you essentially had that with Berry Gordy. But again, Lior was doing this before Def Jam ended up, you know, becoming under the whole Island Def Jam group and everything happened there. After that, you have Sylvia Roan, who was rising up the ranks herself. Still one of the most successful Black women in media and music right now.She's currently at Epic, but she had her time at Motown as well. And I'm going to get into her because I have something I want to say for missed opportunities there. And then you get more recently to the era of Ethiopia Habtamirian, who was there from 2011. Up until 2022, and she's 1 of those that I do feel like was put in a pretty hard spot because on 1 hand, she was able to essentially double the market share.Thanks in part to the partnership that she had made with hip hop through quality control to be able to help. them succeed And this is especially when the Migos are first starting to pop off, and then that transitions into the success of artists like Lil Yachty and Lil Baby and City Girls and others. But I think that also some of the overspending and things like that were quite critiqued.And especially from a PR perspective, the same way I was mentioning earlier when. Andre Harrell's challenges were bright front and center for the entire industry to read. Ethiopia's necessarily weren't in the same way. And even in some of the aspects of her leaving, the media had they called it a bit more reflective of, oh, Ethiopia has chosen to step down.When, yes, that's true, but there was also a pretty large severance package from Lucian and others at UMG. And again, I don't think she was necessarily given as much leadership either, because Motown was kind of, and still is kind of under capital, but now they've essentially moved it back. They had announced that she was solely the CEO back in 2021, but that was a pretty short lived.And to be honest, it felt like. Yeah. 1 of those announcements that the industry made in this, like, post George Floyd era to try to highlight and support black CEOs, which was great to see, but she's someone that's talented. You don't want to see her just become a tokenized person to have this. So, even though, like any CEO, I think there was things you could point out that she probably could have done differently.Still wasn't given the most leeway to begin with it. Now we're back in this point where what is Motown who's leading Motown. It's essentially the subsidiary under capital, but it's now a brand. And who knows where things are going to be. And it's quite unfortunate, but given everything that we've said up into this point, it also, isn't that surprising just given the dynamic.[00:50:21] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think, you know, like you mentioned the the partnership with quality control. I mean, I think. That was a smart way to get more involved in hip hop because that was a brand that did have roots in hip hop more that, kind of resonated. and so when you sort of like, build as a partnership and look at it that way, it seems a little more credible than like,you know, Motown is doing hip hop now. so it's too bad that, you know, things kind of turned out the way they did, but, it's an interesting asset, right? I mean, it's a brand that has a lot of value. But it's not exactly clear, you know, how to sort of monetize it. And I think with Motown right now, it's like, it's probably about more, than the music, right?Like that's maybe where most of the monetization opportunity would be, whether it's, you know, Motown branded, you know, I don't know, films and, you know, I don't know, products, whatever the case may be. It resonates more, I think, than it does, as a record label. And people don't care so much about record labels anymore.Like we've talked about this, you know, in prior episodes, but it's not the same. You're not going to put on your record on a record player and see that big Motown logo on it, you're having something pop up your ear. And there, there's no visual, like, you don't know whether it's on Motown or Def Jam or Universal or Sony or, and you don't probably don't care.Right. I mean, and I think as things have kind of blurred together, genres are blurring together, you know, different, labels are gobbling each other up over the years, you know, people have just kind of like lost track and, you know, sort of like the idea of a label just isn't as important anymore.So, I do think that it's. a valuable piece of IP and, you know, there's things to do with it still. But, you know, I think, Berry Gordy certainly like squeezed, you know, all he could out of it and, did a great job of sort of ultimately profiting off of what it was that he built.[00:52:04] Dan Runcie: Right. Because what you have right now is this brand where they do have Motown the musical, which I do think has been pretty successful, both in the US and in Europe and elsewhere that it's traveled. but that's it. I mean, quality control partnership doesn't exist in the same way since they've been now bought by hive.Hopefully, Ethiopia and those folks were able to at least retain some type of revenue for helping to set the framework to make that deal possible, but we'll see I, where I landed with this is that. The way to quote unquote, I don't want to say save Motown because that can just seems like such a blanket statement, but if you were trying to improve it from its current inevitable state, it would be finding a way to spin off the asset and the catalog from Universal and having it be in the hands of someone else who can make it work.The challenge is Universal isn't going to want to give that asset up. That's one of their most valuable back catalogs that they have. So. I was thinking through it in my mind, the same way that you have someone like a Tyler Perry, who are these modern moguls that have a bit of that Berry Gordy vibe to them.The way that Tyler Perry is, we'll see whether or not he ends up buying BET, but could that same mentality be applied to a record label? And then with that, you're able to then build up your own promotion. You're able to build up your own talent, and then you take things in a slightly different way. I still don't think that guarantees success, but at least you shake things up in a particular way and you still give it that black ownership mentality.You give it a bit more of that independence and the autonomy and you could potentially see what happens because. We all know what the continued fate is as a legacy entity of a catalog holder that it would be under the UMG umbrella.[00:53:50] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, a hundred percent. Totally agree.[00:53:52] Dan Runcie: And with that, I think it would be a good time to dig into some of these categories here. So what do you think is the biggest, this will may be obvious, but what do you think is the biggest signing that they've done or that Motown ever did?[00:54:04] Zack Greenburg: Yeah, I think I'd go with the Jackson 5 I mean, you know, although Motown did not ultimately profit off of MJ's solo career, in the way that it would have if it had retained him for a solo career, Motown did profit off of the association as he became the biggest musical star, but basically entertainer of any kind in the world.and, you know, going back to the Motown 25 moment, you know, other kinds of associations. So I would say like good process. Not really a bad outcome, but like signing the Jackson 5 could have been the path to also signing Michael Jackson as a solo artist. And then, you know, just because that didn't work out in the end, does it mean that that wasn't a huge signing for them?[00:54:47] Dan Runcie: Yeah, I was going to say Jackson 5 or Stevie Wonder, which is the one that I had and I say him because of the longevity because even when times were rough, Stevie Wonder still had arguably his best decade in the 70s But, he had a number of them that were there, especially in the seventies. I think that was his strongest run and he stayed through. And I think that in a lot of ways helped bridge the gap during some of those low moments when other artists did come and went. Did come and go. So that was the one I had there.What do you have as the best business move?[00:55:18] Zack Greenburg: Well, okay. This is something we haven't talked about and maybe we should talk about it but more, but here we are, we'll talk about it more now. I think it was Berry Gordy setting up, his publishing company. So, I mean, maybe that's cheating a little bit because it was outside of, Motown itself but of He set up Joe bet, publishing, you know, pretty early on. And he didn't realize, you know, his big payday for it until later 1997, but he sold it for 132 million for just for half of it. so the EMI, and then he sold another 30% for I think 109 million. And then he sold the rest of it for, something like 80 million in, what was that?It was like 2004. So, you know, we're talking like over a quarter billion dollars and that's not inflation adjusted. you know, for the publishing and that, you know, that dwarfed whatever he got for Motown itself. So, and, you know, think about if he held onto it until, the recent publishing Bonanza, I mean, I mean, it could have been close to a billion dollar catalog, right?I mean, you know, there's nothing, really like it out there. So. He was always very smart about ownership and I think Michael Jackson knew that and, you know, studied him as a kid growing up. And that's kind of what convinced Michael to want to own his own work, and also in the Beatles work, which then became the basis of Sony ATV.And that was another massive catalog. So, yeah, I think the publishing side of it definitely gets overlooked and, you know, was ultimately the most, financially valuable part. But, even though it was sort of a separate. Company, you know, I would argue it, for sure it wouldn't have happened without Motown happening.[00:56:51] Dan Runcie: That's a great one. And I'm glad you mentioned that. Cause definitely could get overlooked and doesn't get talked enough about in this whole business. I think publishing in general is something that people don't understand. And so they just don't, dig into it, but he wrote it. I mean, he owned everything.And obviously when you own the value. When you own something that valuable, it has its assets. And I think why publishing continues to be so valuable in the industry i