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Prepositions like in, of, at, from, and to are used very frequently in English. However, there are some cases in which you SHOULDN'T use one – and in today's lesson, you'll learn 5 times you should not use a preposition.   This is one of my top grammar lessons on Espresso English. I hope you enjoy it!   English grammar can certainly be complicated... but I'll make it clear to you when you join my Advanced Grammar Course! The 45 lessons in this course will teach you all the verb tenses as well as adjectives, adverbs, prepositions, sentence structure, and other more complex topics. You also have the option to practice your writing, and send your texts for feedback and correction by a teacher on the Espresso English team. What if you're not yet advanced enough for that course? Then I'd recommend joining 200 Common Errors in English. You'll learn how to avoid the most common mistakes in grammar, vocabulary, pronunciation, spelling, and learning strategy.

The Elements of a Home: Curious Histories behind Everyday Household Objects, from Pillows to Forks.By Amy Azzarito Intro: Welcome to the number-one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City sitting at her dining room table talking to cookbook authors.Amy Azzarito: My name is Amy Azzarito. I'm a design historian living in the Bay Area, and my new book is Elements of a Home: Curious Histories Behind Everyday Household Objects, from Pillows to Forks.Suzy Chase: For more Cookery by the Book, you can follow me on Instagram. If you enjoy this podcast, please be sure to share it with a friend. I'm always looking for new people to enjoy Cookery by the Book. Now on with the quarantine question round. Number one, where are you living?Amy Azzarito: I'm in Marin County, which is in the Bay Area, just north of San Francisco.Suzy Chase: What restaurant are you dreaming of going to after the quarantine?Amy Azzarito: I picked two. One is an omakase restaurant in San Francisco. It's the special occasion restaurant for my husband and myself called Sasaki. 10 people sit at a bar and watch the sushi chef make everything. It's one of those restaurants where they don't let you put your own soy sauce on things. Then the other is a restaurant here in Marin County called Guesthouse. They make these amazing ribs on Thursday nights that I've been missing.Suzy Chase: What dish is getting you through this that you're making at home?Amy Azzarito: Yeah, so Cooking Light has a recipe for, they call it Instant Pot Vegetarian Cassoulet, that I have made more times than I can count. Our stay at home has coincided with my one-year-old daughter developing into a real eater, a person who eats real food, so I'm cooking more than ever, and she loves this dish. I'm making it once a week. I'm making something with cannellini beans for her once a week if I can find them.Suzy Chase: Now on with the show. You are a sought-after expert on the topic of design history both past and present. We go through everyday life using napkins, forks, spoon, tablecloths, and even a punch bowl not even considering these items have a story and a history. My whole apartment here in New York City is filled with family heirlooms, and I love looking at history through the lens of objects. That is what this book is all about. Can you give us a short history of household objects?Amy Azzarito: Sure. In the introduction to the book, I explain that most of the objects in our home were conceived to fill some sort of a need, something to lie on, something to drink from, to sit on, but that doesn't mean that, just because they filled a practical void, that there wasn't an aesthetic consideration. Human beings seem drawn to beauty. When we consider the history of household objects prior to the Industrial Revolution in the 19th century, which is fairly recent, some of the things that we today deem essential, or many of the things, rather, so pillows and chairs and forks, the things that you mentioned, all of those things were handmade and available to a very few. This book looks at objects through that lens. What were things like? What was it like to live in that time period? What were the stories of these objects?Suzy Chase: The extensive bibliography in the back of the book is the roadmap of your journey, and it's extensive. Can you talk a little bit about the process of figuring out what items you wanted to include in the book and your research?Amy Azzarito: I came up with the object list in a few ways. I did spend time just noting the things that are ubiquitous in all homes, so mattresses, for example, and pillows. Then I'd see what was available on the history of that object and if it seemed like an Avenue that I could explore or if it was a dead end. Other times, I may have read something more general. I mention Joan DeJean's book on comfort. She writes about the history of the sofa in the context of a larger narrative. I thought the story of the sofa was so compelling that reading her take set me on a path to research more. With one hook like that, I would then look over those bibliographies, look for additional books, look for articles, dissertations, so just following the thread if I could.Suzy Chase: Talk a little bit about how the French pops up over and over in this book.Amy Azzarito: In the introduction, I was just trying to head off anyone complaining like, "Why is there so much French stuff here?" I do quote Edmund White who wrote that the French invented the idea of luxe and they have always been willing to pay for it. Beginning in the 16th century, there's a lot of money from French colonies, and the French spend that money and they spend it on... not just the kings but the aristocracy, and they spend it on food and clothing and decorative objects, and they're fashion-forward and they start trends. As this consumer market evolves, people makers, artisans, are enticing them to spend more. I mean it's like our economy, really, so there's always something new, new clocks, new style of silver. You certainly don't want to be seen with the outmoded, whatever that was. Then everybody is just trying to catch up for the next even... You could argue, even now, we're still looking to catch up to their aesthetics.Suzy Chase: Well, case in point, Versailles.Amy Azzarito: Right?Suzy Chase: Oh, my gosh.Amy Azzarito: Yeah, yeah.Suzy Chase: Over the top.Amy Azzarito: I mean it's interesting because Versailles is not just a palace for one king like we think of it, the fairy stories, but it's actually like this giant sprawling apartment complex. All the nobility are living there. Everyone's there. In fact, a lot of them who have these amazing townhouses in Paris are called to be there at the behest of the French king. It's how he keeps an eye on them. They're crammed, sometimes, into small apartments, but it is crowded. They bring their servants and they bring their dogs, but they're all there together, so you have all these people with money all together all the time. They're bored. They're looking to spend their money. They're looking to outdo one another, and it just like... It's this explosion of style.Suzy Chase: Let's start off with the good-old fork.Amy Azzarito: Yeah.Suzy Chase: It's actually the first thing you wrote about for Design Sponge, a popular, now-defunct design blog that we all miss so much. You wrote, in the book, it was once considered immoral, unhygienic, and a tool of the devil. Many people, even aristocrats, preferred to eat with their hands. Can you tell us about the fork?Amy Azzarito: Yeah. Most people ate with their hands. Part of the reason that the fork is seen as this implement of the devil is the early fork looked like a pitchfork. It was a two-pronged implement. The idea was that God made your hands and your hands should bring the food to your body to feed your body, and that's what God intended and, by using something else, it's devilish. I mean it's hard to get back into a medieval mindset, but that was the logic. To me, what's fascinating about the fork is that everyone was fine eating with their hands, that that was working really well. There was a lot of ritual around hand-washing, so everybody was very clean and there was a trumpet that would blow and call you to the table to hand wash, and they would pour the water over your hand not dip your hand in the basin. It was a nice ritualized thing. Well, all of the sudden, there's more sugar, again from the colonies. Chefs create this way to preserve fruit in this sugar, and they make this sticky, syrupy fruit dessert, and people just go gaga for this.Suzy Chase: British food writer Bee Wilson pointed out that there are fork cultures and there are chopstick cultures, but all people around world use spoons. In the old days, people wouldn't leave their home without their spoon, and what it was made of said everything about your social standing. Can you give us a little history of the spoon?Amy Azzarito: This time period, pre-Industrial Revolution, so anything before the 1850s, things, objects, everything, cloth, everything you wear, shoes, everything's made by hand, which means it's rather expensive. That's the reason you're carrying your own spoon around with you. It's not until we have more manufacturing they can afford to buy spoons for everyone. This is where we get the idea of... The concept of being born with a silver spoon in your mouth comes about this time as the spoon is a popular... silver spoon, rather, is a popular baptismal gift. It's basically just because it was the least expensive item of silver one could get, so that's sort of how that started, although if you were really wealthy, you might give a baby, say, 13 spoons that would have a little apostle on the finial of the spoon. Once we hit the 18th century, the problem isn't, "Do I have enough spoons?" Now that people can buy spoons, they want to have as many spoons as possible, and so, in the Victorian era, they have a spoon for everything.Suzy Chase: I didn't know that bread used to be the plate. Tell us about the trencher in the Middle Ages.Amy Azzarito: When you think about the medieval plate, we're thinking about a round slice of aged bread basically. That's what the early medieval plates were made of. There are recipes floating around online because these are aged, hard slices. They were aged for a few days so that they worked as a plate. We have these medieval plates, these trenchers, and the fork burst onto the scene, and people began eating all of their meals with this awesome new fork, and the fork pokes holes in the bread plate and the sauces run through, so bread doesn't really work as a plate. Then, as a stop-gap measure, people put maybe wood or something underneath the bread plate, so you have the bread plate then a... Finally, they're just like, "Forget it," and we get rid of the bread and we just have the plate.Suzy Chase: Can you talk about how, in ancient Rome, the wine glass was disposable?Amy Azzarito: Yeah. I think that's probably one of my favorite facts about the wine glass. The blow pipe had... which was a technique, a way to make glass, had just been invented in Syria, which was, at that time, part of the Roman Empire. We're talking like 50 BCE. All of a sudden, there's a plethora of glass. There's a lot of glass, and so if a Roman housewife chipped a glass, it was cheaper to just throw it away and buy a new one. That that kind of disposable mentality also existed in ancient life is fascinating.Suzy Chase: I've never put much thought into the napkin that I use at any given meal. In the book, you say this essential domestic item has surprising origins. Can you talk a little bit about that?Amy Azzarito: Yeah. This is one of my favorite facts from the book is that the earliest napkins were actually made of lumps of dough that were used by the Spartans. They would have a dough ball, and they would just kind of roll it and clean their oily fingers during the meal. Then, at the end of the meal, they would just, again, throw the dough to dogs or the poor people, and then that became a slice of bread that they would use as a napkin. Using a piece of dough would have been much less expensive than getting someone to weave and sew and make cloth to then use for napkins just to wipe your hands with.Suzy Chase: Why do you think medieval diners would be horrified by our casual attitude toward table linens?Amy Azzarito: Dinner and meal time and these dinner objects are so interesting because they are so ritualized, and they're symbolic, and they mean a lot to us, so having a bare table when you could afford to have cloth would have just not made any sense to them. It would have been behavior like a peasant.Suzy Chase: Tell us about Charlemagne's tablecloth party trick.Amy Azzarito: Charlemagne, just to remind everybody, he was the first emperor to rule over western Europe. We're talking about the year 755. He had tablecloths woven with asbestos and would throw it in the fire after a dinner, and the crumbs would burn off, but the tablecloth would remain intact.Suzy Chase: Oh, my God.Amy Azzarito: There are stories of Romans doing this, and so it's like there are... Is it true or not? Asbestos is apparently fireproof, and so the Greeks and Romans would use it as shrouds, and so it was used as a material, a cloth. They also knew that people who had the job of weaving it seemed to get really ill and die, but they kept using it.Suzy Chase: Yeah. Hello, lung cancer.Amy Azzarito: I know, right?Suzy Chase: But we don't care.Amy Azzarito: It was not a great time to be a human, quite possibly, because even if you're wealthy, you don't have air conditioning, you don't have electricity. Then, if you're not, you're a slave or you’re a peasant. Life was about survival.Suzy Chase: When I think about the punch bowl, I think about a cold beverage, but in the book you wrote, "The first versions of punch were always served hot." Can you talk a little bit about that?Amy Azzarito: When I think of punch, I think of something cold with sherbet in the middle, but yeah, the first punch comes from India, and it was served hot. You want to think about a mulled wine sort of thing. It was made to be drunk communally, but it was usually made with a liquor that needed a lot of spice and sugar to be palatable. It's initially drunk by sailors, but it just becomes the thing to drink in Britain in the 17th century because it's just cold, and so warming from the inside, and then getting a little tipsy or more and forgetting about your troubles was the thing to do.Suzy Chase: We just talked about a bunch of food-related objects, but there are many more types of objects in this book. Do you have a favorite?Amy Azzarito: I write about the mattress and about Henry VIII would have his attendant stab the mattress through every night to make sure there wasn't an assassin lying in there. We talk about the sofa and the chandelier and the jewelry box and the pillow. I don't know that I could pick a favorite, Suzy.Suzy Chase: Now to my segment, putting you on the spot again, called My Favorite Cookbook. What is your all-time favorite cookbook and why?Amy Azzarito: I am a digital subscriber of The New York Times and subscriber of the cooking section also. They had the amazing Melissa Clark, who's been a guest on your podcast.Suzy Chase: Yes.Amy Azzarito: She has a recipe I used to use years ago, how to make maraschino cherries. I learned how to do that via her column. I just have love for our papers right now. It's a hard time for them. I might have to just pick the paper. I know.Suzy Chase: That's fine.Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web and social media?Amy Azzarito: I am everywhere. Amy Azzarito, my first and last name, A-M-Y, A-Z-Z-A-R-I-T-O on Instagram. That's where I am most often.Suzy Chase: Well, thanks, Amy-Amy Azzarito: Thank you.Suzy Chase: ... for coming on Cookery by the Book Podcast.Amy Azzarito: Thank you.Outro: Subscribe over on cookerybythebook.com, and thanks for listening to the number-one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book.

I woke up this morning excited and out of my mind with joy. I couldn't wait to get up and write to you. I have a deep affinity for entrepreneurs and people that have the desire to be entrepreneurs. That's you or you wouldn't be seeing these words... Anyways, waking up like this wasn't always so joyous. Back in 2003, right before I started my entrepreneurial journey, I would wake up on a Sunday morning and for a few moments, I'd feel, at best, relief. Relief that it was Sunday and that I didn't have to go to work. Then I'd think of going back to work on Monday and dread would start to fill my mind. I'd do all I could to push the feeling of dread out of my mind. By Sunday night I'd have full on "Sunday Evening Dread". Most of my "days off" would be fighting off the feeling of dread or fully encased in it. That happened for YEARS. I heard a quote that escalated my dread to exasperation. This quote and my 3 "fake" heart attacks shocked me awake. Here it is: "Most people are just waiting to die" … Let that sink in. I don't remember who originally said the quote, but after I heard it I was dazed for weeks. I came out of that daze with one thought: FUCK THAT! I made the choice. I wasn't going to spend the rest of my life just "waiting to die"! I didn't know how, but I made the choice anyways. That choice lead me from playing by the status quo and feelings of being bored, annoyed, financially enslaved, unhappy, scared, and afraid of failure... To where I am now, nearly an eight figure business, high level of freedom, control over daily life, ability to print money on demand, surrounded by hand picked, high-level people, and excited to wake up every day to talk to people I respect and am on a mission to help. My journey started with a choice and small, simple steps. You can make the choice and take a small simple step right now. Start your journey by joining me in the Freedom Club here: http://www.FreedomClubVIP.com Jeremy Frandsen World Leader in Freedom Business Education

On the sixty-third entry of Tristan's Tips, our amazing host Tristan Layfield talks to us about what to do if we get laid off. Since the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, over 26.5 million Americans have filed for unemployment. We are seeing numbers that we haven't seen since the Great Depression. Losing your job is never an easy thing to go through, but remember that there is nothing to be ashamed about. This is only a small part of your story and it won't last forever!Connect with Tristan on LinkedIn, IG, FB, and Twitter.Find out how the CDC suggests you wash your hands by clicking here.Help food banks respond to COVID-19. Learn more at FeedingAmerica.org.Visit our website.TRANSCRIPTTristan: What's going on, Living Corporate?! It's Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting, and I'm back to bring you another career tip. This week I want to talk to you about what to do if you get laid off.Since the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic over 26.5 million Americans have filed for unemployment. We are seeing numbers that we haven't seen since the Great Depression. To some degree, we all knew that companies could eliminate our positions, but this has become a reality for far too many people who didn't expect it. So let's discuss the steps you should take if you have been or get laid off.First, grieve and take a moment to deal with your emotions. We're human; we're going to feel some type of way after we've been laid off. If you don't take some time to feel your feels, they will come back to bite you at some point.Second, file for unemployment and deal with your finances. Some people may cringe at this, but in times like these, we have to let go of our egos and do what's best to keep us on our feet. Though it's not a full paycheck, it will help you keep some money in your account while you search for the next opportunity. Plus right now in the US, you will get an extra $600 per week in unemployment due to the pandemic. Also, be sure to take a look at your bills to see what you can but back on like different subscription services. When it comes to utilities and other bills, make sure to call companies because many of them are waiving or delaying payments with no penalty at this time.Third, do some market reach to understand what companies are hiring and what type of roles are out there. I know it may not seem like it, but there are still tons of employers who need the talent and skillsets you will bring to the table. This will also help you figure out what next step you might want to make in your career. Doing this research upfront will help you with some of the other tasks as well.Next, update your resume and LinkedIn. Really focus on your transferrable skillsets that relate to the roles you identified in the step before. Also, be sure to highlight your ability to leverage and adapt to new technology as this is something most companies are contending with right now. On your LinkedIn profile, be sure to turn on the job-seeking settings including "Open for New Opportunities." This can help you be seen by recruiters and hiring managers on the platform.Then I'd suggest you start building your network. Of course, you want to do this virtually now utilizing LinkedIn, email, Zoom, and other tools. But this step is essential. Even though more companies will be turning to their job postings to help fill roles, those will be very competitive and we know that referrals are the most proven way to land a role. Do some research and target people one to two levels above where you want to go because they're going to be the decision-makers. Make sure while you're cultivating these relationships that you stay focused on where you can provide value to the person that you want to help you.After that, start acquiring new skills. Once we get on the other side of this pandemic, there will be an influx of new opportunities. Prepare yourself by taking some online courses or certifications so you can ensure you will be considered as a highly qualified candidate.Lastly, try your hardest to maintain a positive mindset and attitude. I know it's easier said than done, but stress and anxiety not only have a negative effect on your health but also your job search. So make sure you're taking care of yourself and doing things that bring you joy. Reach out and talk to someone. And remember to be patient with yourself and the process.Losing your job is never an easy thing to go through, but remember that there is nothing to be ashamed about. This is only a small part of your story and it won't last forever.This tip was brought to you by Tristan of Layfield Resume Consulting. Check us out on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @LayfieldResume or connect with me, Tristan Layfield, on LinkedIn.

Episode #529: A FIRESIDE CHAT with Papa Rob. If you were in my living room and you asked, "Do you have any suggestions for me personally during this pandemic?" I say "Yes." Then I'd share the three things I share on today's podcast. LeaderTribe is on YouTube! LeaderTribe.com Instagram: @leadertribe

Elevators Pardon me... Desculpe-me... Yes sir? Sim, senhor? Which floor is the hotel administration? Em que andar é a administração do hotel? The third. O terceiro. Thanks. Where are the elevators? Obrigado. Onde estão os elevadores? Over there. Right across the lobby. Lá. Bem do outro lado do lobby. Wait! Hold the elevator. Espere! Segure o elevador. There you go. Aí está. Are you going up? Você está subindo? No, I'm going down to the parking level. Não, eu estou descendo para o andar do estacionamento. Hi /Oi Hi, which floor? Oi, Qual andar? The rooftop pool. That's the twentieth-fifth. A piscina da cobertura. É o vigésimo quinto. There you go. Phew,. It'sa high speed elevator. We're past my floor already. Aí está. Ufa. É um elevador de alta velocidade. Oh dear. Sorry. Oh, deus. Sinto muito. Hold on! Segure! It's all right. I have the door hold button. Tudo bem. Eu tenho um botão que segura aporta. Thank you. Obrigado. Where are you going? Para onde você está indo The twenty-first. Thanks. O vigésimo primeiro. Obrigado. Which floor do you want? Que andar você quer? The second. Thank you. O segundo. Obrigado. You're welcome. De nada. Are you the elevator operator? Voce é o ascensorista(operador do elevador)? xxx Good morning. I'm going to the cruise shipterminal. Do I need a taxi? Bom dia! Eu estou indo para o terminal de navios de cruzeiro. Eu preciso de um táxi Canada Place? No. ma'am. You can walk. It's not far. Canada Place Não senhora. Você pode ir andando. Não é longe. It's only about a five-minute walk. São apenas 5 minutos de caminhada. Fine. Which way is it? Ótimo. Em que direção Here's a map. We're right here. Aqui está um mapa. Nós estamos bem aqui. Turn right outside the hotel, and walk down Granville Street For about three blocks. Vire a direita saindo do hotel, e desça a Grand Ville Street por cerca de 3 quarteirões. The Canadian Pacific Station is at the end of the street. Take a left, then a right. A estação Canadian Pacific é no final da rua. Pegue a esquerda e depois a direita. You can't miss it. It's right in front of you. Não tem erro. Fica bem em frente de você. Thanks. Can I take the map? Obrigado. Posso pegar o mapa Sure. Claro. xxx Checking In Announcement: ... and Flight CA 489 to Vancouver is now leaving. Anuncio no alto falante... e o voo CA 489 para Vancouver está partindo. Excuse me ... Com licensa... Hey. bud. Stand in line like everyone else! Hey, companheiro. Fique atrás da linha como todos os outros. But my flight's leaving ... Mas o meu voo está partindo Aw, right. Go ahead. Tudo bem. Vá em frente. Thank you. Obrigado. Conversation B May I have your ticket, sir? Posso ver o seu bilhete senhor? There you go. Aqui está. I'm sorry This is a Coach Class ticket. This is the Business Class check-in. Eu sinto muito. Este é eum bilhete da classe econômica. But my flight's just leaving. Mas o meu voo está saindo Flight CA 489 to Vancouver? Yes, I think you're too late. Voo CA 489 para Vancouver? Sim, eu acho que você está muito atrasado. Oh. no! I have to be on it. Oh não. Em tem de estar nele. Just a moment. Yes, you're OK. I can check you in here. Só um momento. Sim, você está OK. Eu posso checar você aqui. Thank goodness for that. Muito obrigado por isso. Do you have any baggage? Você tem alguma bagagem? Yes. Two pieces. Sim. Duas peças. Did you pack the bags yourself? Você mesmo fez os embrulhos? Yes, I did. Sim, fui eu Fine. Put them on the scales. Tudo bem. Coloque na balança. I'd like an aisle seat, please. Eu gostaria de um assento no corredor, por favor. There are none left. Não há nenhum restante. Then I'd like a window seat. Então eu gostaria de um assento na janela. Sorry. The flight's nearly full. Sinto muito. O voo está quase completo. There's a party of Sumo wrestlers going to Vancouver. Há uma equipe de lutadores de sumo indo para Vancouver. I only have a middle seat. OK? Eu só tenho assentos

January is a tricky time of year and we feel like we need to be functioning at a very high level after such a lovely holiday. However, it can actually be the complete opposite. Christmas and New Year are exhausting and we're always not quite ready to get back into the swing of things again! It can be really difficult to reestablish those healthy habits. In this first episode of Season 2, I wanted to help you do a little assessment of where you're currently at with your health and MS. Then I'd like to help you to visualise where you'd like to be and feel like this year. I take you through six practical steps to getting back on the bandwagon and feeling great again! You can do this!

Follow the show at @tidypod (https://twitter.com/tidypod) on Twitter! For show notes and to subscribe see tidytuesday.com (https://www.tidytuesday.com) Join us at r4ds.online (http://r4ds.online) @R4DSCommunity (https://twitter.com/R4DSCommunity) Host: Jon Harmon @jonthegeek (https://twitter.com/jonthegeek) jonthegeek.com (http://jonthegeek.com/) Support us at patreon.com/tidytuesday (https://www.patreon.com/tidytuesday) Last week's data on Adoptable Dogs: github.com/rfordatascience/tidytuesday/tree/master/data/2019/2019-12-17 (https://github.com/rfordatascience/tidytuesday/tree/master/data/2019/2019-12-17) This week's Christmas Music data: github.com/rfordatascience/tidytuesday/tree/master/data/2019/2019-12-24 (https://github.com/rfordatascience/tidytuesday/tree/master/data/2019/2019-12-24) SPOILER WARNING, you may not want to read below before listening to the episode. Twas the first Tidy Tuesday, in 2018. And my R data options were getting quite lean. I'd plotted gas mileage by displacement and cyls, I'd tired of iris; from diamonds, no thrills. My columns were features, my rows observations. My plots weren't quite perfect (they lacked annotations). But I'd learned all I could from Garrett and Hadley, What I needed was data, and I needed it badly. Then R4DS Online Learning Community Announced a new R practice opportunity! They'd post a new dataset once every week And, most importantly, 'twould be unique! The goal was for learners from novice to whiz To use that new data for their own dataviz. And whether those vizes were bars, lines, or maps We'd share our R code (on github, perhaps). We'd try out new packages, practice and play, Then share in a tweet hashtag TidyTuesday. And the rstats community would add their advice. With new tips and tricks (don't worry, they're nice)! So I started to read tweets by @thomas_mock And I waited each Monday (around 2 o'clock). Then I'd download the new dataset csv, And read Thomas's tweet to see what it might be. "Here's comics! Here's Star Wars! Here's US tuition!" "Here's how NFL players are paid by position!" "Here's video games! Here's Roman bloodlines!" "Here's UFO sightings! And ratings of wine!" And my plots? They improved! With new themes and palettes. And Thomas kept posting brand new datasets. I heard Thomas proclaim as he tweeted his tweet, "It's Tidy Tuesday, y'all! Now go code something neat!"

One of these questions I see coming up all the time for people who are just thinking about making the leap into working from home is whether working remotely and freelancing are the same thing. It can get really confusing because plenty of freelancers do work remotely. But that's not necessarily the same as someone who's working on an hourly, part time, or salaried, full time basis as a remote worker. In this episode, I was so happy to be able to invite my guest Maryellen Stockton to chat about what it means to work remotely, successfully. We talked about a lot of things including how to be successful with a remote job interviews and tips that can help you be successful and effective with potential clients and employers in this digital world we live in today. About Maryellen Stockton Maryellen Stockton is the co-founder and CEO of Work Well Wherever. She is a People Operations Consultant who has worked for 15 years encouraging individuals to achieve positive work/life experiences and helping companies create inspired work cultures. Six years ago, she began working remotely for a virtual staffing firm and quickly became an expert in company culture, employee engagement, and building teams outside the traditional office. She lives in Atlanta with her husband Matt and her two kids, George and Winnie. The things that make her happy usually include coffee, people she loves, and mountains. And to that, I say I feel the same! I hope you will find this episode helpful for learning more about why remote work has become so popular. We're living in an amazing time as freelancers or as remote employees where companies are finally opening up to the idea that they can have very effective, efficient, and great teams with excellent communication in locations all over the country or even the world. So use that to your advantage. Make sure you file away the tips in this episode and avoid some of the pitfalls we discuss that are costing people remote work opportunities. I was thrilled to be able to chat with Maryellen because I think she has such a unique background with remote work. She is also, in a sense, like a consultant herself running her own business. So she has this really unique blend of both of those backgrounds. I'd love to kick things off by talking a little bit about the difference between remote work and freelancing. Sometimes we're talking about the same things.  But increasingly, these words are  getting their own definition. So I really wanted to hear her perspective on what that difference is. Maryellen’s thoughts on on freelance work is that you are usually not working full time for one employer.  You are usually working full time maybe for multiple employers or maybe you're working part time for multiple companies or on multiple projects. And you are not necessarily like a part of a team. With remote work, and especially with the growth of this full time, remote work, the difference is that you're usually devoted to one company or organization. And it is a company that is either distributed where they have offices all over or they have teams that are.  Everyone works from home or maybe it's a combination of both. Maryellen shared that you are seeing increasingly more and more companies hiring freelancers to do certain projects and also they have remote teams. That actually worked for the organization. And that's increasingly more common. I totally agree with that. I think that the confusion for a lot of people is because most freelancers today are working remotely. Now, that's not true for everyone. There are definitely some freelancers who still go into the office and things like that. But most of them are working remotely. So when someone is thinking about getting started working from home, it's actually quite different working for one company, or maybe two companies that you're working remotely for part time versus running a freelance business where you may have multiple clients at the same time. And there's not always that expectation that it's ongoing. Like if you take a full time, or part time remote work job, unless the person has told you that this is temporary, there's that expectation that it's like a traditional form of employment. It's expected to go on unless there's a reason for either party to decide to end the relationship. Whereas, freelance work is so much more flexible. It might literally be that someone needs you to do something this week and then never again. I still have some of my clients from years ago. So it's all over the board. One of the things that's cool about the time period that we live in is that remote work is becoming more and more accepted by companies of all sizes.  Employees are wanting it. So it’s a great time to be either a remote worker, an aspiring remote employee or a freelance. Because this whole idea of working with people who are not in your office is so much more accepted. What other trends have you seen in the last couple of years around remote work? Maryellen shared that there are employers who have a corporate team that is fully remote. And then they also hire freelancers. So they have contractors all over the US. So they are all under one company. The contractors are 1099.   These freelancers are 1099. And it's a lot of part time.  Then they also have these corporate team employees that are remote. So it's interesting to see. Maryellen has seen a rise of wanting to incorporate the freelancers more into the company.   She has some thoughts and ideas around it. But it's like that is something that you have to figure out as you go along. She said that in Atlanta, there are companies that staff assistants, bookkeepers, or marketing team members. And then they also have a remote corporate team. So it's just interesting trying to bring them into the fold. And especially when they're thinking about how they want these freelancers to be a part of their culture and have better communication.   How do you do that?  How does that happen? That is a really unique challenge. And the way that I have come across that topic is when I'm coaching freelancers, who are in some of these teams, but they're being brought in on a short term basis or even on a long term basis. But as independent contractors, there's a really fine line that employers have to walk between legally with how they treat freelancers. So it's this big gray area where sometimes companies don't even realize that they're doing it. For example, you want to bring this freelancer into the fold of your company culture.  And you want them to feel like they're part of a team. You want to have great communication channels. But at the same time, the way that you treat an employee, you can't always necessarily just assume that the freelancer is another employee and that that's okay. So I think that's a challenge that's really facing both freelancers and companies that are trying to leverage their talent right now is figuring out like, “Okay, we have someone who's not really part of the team, but we'd like them to feel like they are without crossing the line. How do we get that perfect Goldilocks situation there?” Maryellen thinks it definitely starts with the communication and how you are tracking things. How often are you bringing the freelancers into the discussions if they're working on a certain project? Because sometimes she thinks the common thing with with freelancers and with teams, whether they're remote or in the office, is that they have a meeting in the office or they have a meeting on video. And since the freelancer is only working on one part of the project, they don't loop them into that conversation. She sees that happening a lot. And so the freelancer is actually missing out on the valuable information by not being involved. I didn't think about that. There’s so many conversations or even feedback loops that are happening, whether it's in an office or it's a remote team, with the rest of the team. So it can be a challenge. Something for companies to keep in mind is, when you do these update meetings or progress, how do you fold in a person? One of the ways that this has come up with a lot of freelancers that I work with is, they'll have a client who's new to working with freelancers. And they'll say, “Oh, hey, can you hop on the phone in an hour?” And that's not possible for freelancers.   Companies should be prepared to work ahead with that sort of thing. Maryellen thinks one of the ways that you work around that is realizing that now we might have to have a regular update especially if there's a big project going on. Maybe you have to have the team meeting weekly, based on the particular project, as opposed to when you used to only have to have monthly meetings, You just have to think about different ways of communicating so that everyone's on the same page and that no one's left out or is missing information. I think that's really great for freelancers and remote workers alike to consider. And that gets into our next topic here. Remote work has definitely gotten more popular with a lot of different companies and in a lot of different industries. But I still feel like, and this is true of freelancing, too, that there's a lot of misconceptions around remote workers and remote working. What are those misconceptions and myths that are still out there? Maryellen shared that she doesn’t know when we'll get over these misconceptions. But the biggest one is that if people work from home or telecommute or freelancing or any kind of remote work that they are not really working.  She admitted she had this misconception too, before she started working remotely six years ago.  It's hard to turn it off. When she started working remotely, she really had to figure out a way to stop and schedule myself and be organized and set boundaries and establish my working hours and make sure that I was communicating all that Because it really is hard to turn off because you can take it anywhere. That's the beauty of it.  But then it ends up causing issues. This happened to me with my freelance business. My husband just commented on like, “Okay, some days you're working from your laptop in the living room. Some days you're in the bed working. And some days you're over here.”  He said that my workspace had become the entire house. And this is good because it's so easy to grab for that laptop and go, “Oh, I've got 15 minutes. I can knock out that email.” So I love that idea of, what are your working hours going to be? Either because you're a remote worker and you need to have that expectation of when you're going to be online with the rest of the team and available to talk to you. As a freelancer, it went against everything that I wanted in my freelance business. I was so dumb. I don't want to be nine to five. And so I was like, “Well, I can't work between nine to five. I just don't want to make that my office hours.” But finally, when you make some sort of clear schedule, or when you have a home office, where that's where you go to do your work and your calls, it's that much easier to prevent it from bleeding over. Sometimes I feel like remote workers and freelancers feel as though they have to prove that they're working. They feel the need to document what they're doing, take screenshots, or send like a recap of what they have done. And that's not always necessary or productive or the best use of time. But part of that is because I think we worry about, “Well, does this person believe that I'm really working or not? Do they think that I'm just here billing them for time or essentially on the clock when I'm not doing anything?” Maryellen thinks that if you're an owner of a company, and you're hiring freelancers, or you decided to let people work from home a couple days a week, then you have to trust that you've hired the right employee for the position. And you have to be crystal clear about the expectations and goals everyone should have. These should be expectations and goals that align with their position or project or whatever it is. So that should be communicated well, so that everybody has set expectations that are not limiting someone in their flexibility. It's actually like leading them well and allowing them to do their best and in the role. So she thinks that sometimes when people are switching to remote, there is that sense of, “I don't want to micromanage.” So they don't put any guidelines or expectations in place. But you actually are not doing anyone a favor. Because then people don't really know what's expected and everyone does want to know what's expected of them. It's not really rules, per se.  It's just leading leading well. It's just guiding your team to do the best that they can and also setting the employee or Freelancer up for success. I think one of the most common breakdowns that I've seen is around communication expectations. Because if you're bringing someone into your team, they need to know what the communication expectations ares.  For example, you may be the type of person who only checks your project management tool once a day and your email twice a day. If you have someone new on your remote team who's like starting at nine o'clock in the morning, they might be sending you messages over Slack or over email like, “Hey, I'm unclear about something.” And if they don't know that the expectation is, “Oh, hey, we always chat during the midday daily meeting or on Fridays. We map out the week ahead. And so you should be prepared to show up to the Friday meeting with all of your concerns and questions and intended priorities.” You're just making that person feel more and more awkward. And they're wasting time as well. Because that person is just sitting around not realizing that that's part of the way that your remote team works. So I think that's important to remember, too. That not all remote teams are created equal. And when they have this mix of remote workers and freelancers and sometimes even people in an office in a different location, you’ve got to suss out that culture. So how do you do that if you're the intended employee or the freelancer? How do you tell what a company's culture is when you don't have that ability to walk into an office and get a vibe that way? So from the employee’s perspective, or freelancer’s perspective, but I guess mainly when you're a remote worker where the culture is more important.  I mean, you still wantan awesome culture for your freelancer, but it's more temporary. Maryellen shared that if she’s going to interview for a remote company, she’s going to do her research first. Just as with any company.   She’s going to do my research. One of the things that she thinks is hugely important in remote work is that when you're applying for these jobs, do you align with them? What is their mission? What is their purpose? Does that  speak to you?  Is that intriguing to you? And are their values communicated clearly that you understand? And what are their processes?  It's good to ask how often does the team meet?, How do they meet?  Are you meeting in person? Do you have the tools in place to know that everything is heading in the right direction so that you will be able to connect?  It’s so important to be able to develop a connection with other employees.  I feel like whether you're working remotely and trying to land a remote traditional job, or you're a freelancer, we tend to worry about wasting people's time. Especially if you're being paid for it. For example, say you're an hourly freelancer, and you're like, “Well, I don't want to waste three minutes of this phone call asking this person how their kids are doing.” But it's actually important to do that sort of thing. And as long as it's not excessive, I think that people don't even think about that in terms of like, “Oh, this person is trying to draw time or wasted or isn't sensitive to the fact that I'm a busy person.” It's so important for that connection to feel like you are part of the team and to really get to know who you're working with.  And I'm guessing that there are more downsides than this, but I know for myself that isolation is one of the hardest things about being working remote. It's wonderful to work from home.  It’s nice to have your home office, have your pets around, and all of that stuff.   But it can also be super hard. Do you see any other like downsides or things that someone should be aware of with working remotely that they should be prepared for before they start? Maryellen does think the isolation thing is huge. That takes a little bit to get adjusted too.  So some things that she did was just have a set date if I didn't have video calls to be in a coffee shop, just to be around people. Or she had a workout class two days a week that she liked to go to. And so she would schedule that time. So that goes back to the things that we talked about. That also helps you to turn things off. The other thing that's the downside of remote work, is just figuring out a schedule that works for you and works for the company. One that allows for flexibility, but where you're able to get things done but still have a routine or schedule. She thinks that was super helpful to her to avoid isolation and to avoid over overworking. Because there are those days for any of us, in office or not, where maybe from 12 to one you go to your kids ballet performance or you have a doctor's appointment, and you have to get back online after the kids are to bed or your partner goes to sleep or whatever the thing is that happens. But if you can, you don't have to have this like rigid schedule. But if you can somewhat schedule and know what you're going to tackle next and have a sense of the things that you need to be more productive during the day, that helps with the with the isolation and the overworking part that that I see people face. This goes back to that company culture idea that you're trying to assess when you're working with someone new. What is their company culture?  Do they expect you to be online all the time or not? Because that's something to really know up front so you can plan around that. And I love that idea of getting out of your office when you can even if you're a remote worker. See if there's someone where you can have lunch with them on one day a week where you leave your home office. For me, my husband and I just moved to Minnesota a couple of months ago.  I knew one person here. So I forced myself to go to Minneapolis a couple times a month. And then every Wednesday night I go to an adult tap dance class and I interact with other people from Minnesota and get to be part of the whole culture here. So I feel like that's important to even the schedules that you have during your work day. And even when you're not working that can help if you don't have that water cooler gossip. You don't have that going out with your co workers at lunch type of thing when you're working remotely, but you can build in that connection in other ways.   I found that that helps me too. Because if I have evening events, I can't work past a certain hour because that's where I need to go. So it's a really it's always a balance but definitely important to keep that Maryellen asked me if there is something that I hear freelancers or people I work with encounter that they consider a downside. There's two things. So one is that people don't understand what you do. For the longest time, my in laws described what I do as something on the internet. Then I'd say the other one is that people tend towards being a little too reliant on technology. We live in this digital world. But we need to find that fine line between things that can be sent over an email and it's going to be interpreted the right way by the person receiving it and need to actually have a call. If I have 20 questions that need answered, then it's just going to be easier for us to get on the phone and hash out those 20 questions in 30 minutes rather than me work on a project and get all the way to the finish line and have my client or employer say it’s not correct.  A phone call or video call could have cleared that up 10 steps earlier in the process. And assuming that all people write emails the same way I do.  I would say that's the other big challenge for working remotely that I see a lot. One of the things you are looking for when you're you're looking for someone to work remotely is great communication skills. It's somewhat like being a little intuitive or a problem solver. And that's part of the communication thing is saying like, “Okay, I can't even explain this in the email. I'm just going to pick up the phone and call them or I'm going to ask if they can jump on a call later.” It’s fine If you call and they don't answer. Then maybe you go back to the email and figure something else out. But sometimes it's just quicker to have that conversation than to type in emails.  It can hit a point where it’s getting too long or doesn't make sense or it's not going to be received. It’s knowing when to do what . Especially if you are the worker who's getting an email or a piece of feedback on something that says, “I don't like this. This does this.” Well, what does that mean? Because I could interpret that as they hate me or they want to fire me.  And they could have just literally meant like, “I don't like the color yellow. And you put yellow on that.” This is a five second fix.  But over email, it can be interpreted differently. So one of the things that I like to do with that is if it seems like there's going to be confusion, or if this is a little more complex than an email, I will just say that in my message that I want to schedule a call with them. If they have an automated booking where I can go right to their calendar and book a call, I'll do that. If they're busy, and I don't know what their schedule is, I'll just send a message like, “Hey, I'm really thinking with a 15 minute phone call we could knock out all these questions and clear things up. Are you up for that?” That way it doesn't seem like I'm intruding. But I don't think that workers and freelancers should be afraid to bring that up. No one's going to get mad at you if you feel like you need the video screen by screen walkthrough to learn something new or to get on the phone call and ask those questions. It shows that you're trying to be mindful of the entire project and the purpose and something that you're confused about. Do you think that there are certain people who remote work is the right fit for them? Are there certain traits that people are better suited to work remotely than others? Maryellen does. And she thinks that you screen for it. For example, people that have had their own business, you can say that they’re probably self motivated. She thinks this is a huge one because there's not just someone right beside you to ask in the time frame that you need it. So she would say self motivated, organized, excellent communication skills, and proactive are important trains to have. And she really thinks a natural problem solver is also a good trait. Because there are all these tools and technology that we're getting used to, but you have to be able to say, “Okay, I may not be able to get the answer right away.” Can you come up with a solution then and figure that out on your own? Or even that ability to say, “Okay, this project is stalled out because I need an answer from x person and x person isn't available. So how can I table this? And what is the next project I jump to?” I think that some people just naturally gravitate towards being able to do that. Whereas others need to be told by someone else what step one is and step two is this. And so being able to balance those different priorities and saying, “Alight, I've got more time here that I can work on something different, because I'm not able to move forward on this until I get an answer or something that's important as well.” Maryellen thinks sometimes sometimes people are easily distracted, which means they want to be in an office. Or they feel like they're missing out. And some people are easily distracted and they want to work from home because they can be more productive. So there are those things too. I like to ask freelancers, “In college or grad school, were you the person that actually got the group project done?” Because you probably have what it takes to be a freelancer, if you were not stalled out by everyone else's lack of communication and ability to work together. But you were able to bring that project to the finish line, because that's a big part of it. How do you set yourself up for success working from home? I found it to be hugely distracting to work in an office when I had a more traditional job. There were always other people talking. Somebody next to me playing really loud music.  I just felt like I got less done because of that. So being able to do my work from a quiet home office works for me. But for other people, they would absolutely hate it because they don't other people around. So it really depends on what works for you. If you've never been a remote worker before, how do you show an employer or a freelance client that you'd be really good working remotely? Maryellen shared that part of that has to do with with the person interviewing.  She thinks that there are some things that you can highlight as a freelancer if you've never worked remotely.  One of them would be tell me about a time you've completed this project, but maybe you're working on a team and you didn't have the answers. She thinks being able to highlight any way that you solve problems, communication skills, and organizational skills in your resume. Another thing that we didn't talk about, but she thinks professional development and growing your skills and remote work or as a freelancer is a great thing. When you're interviewing a freelancer and they're continually like taking classes or reading books or doing different things. She thinks that shows the self motivated, proactive type that is successful when working remotely or freelancing. I think all too often people who would do really well working remotely or being a freelancer, they write themselves out of the whole topic before they even get a chance to start. Because they'll say, “Well, I've never worked remotely before. I don't think anyone's going to buy into me working from my home or being a freelancer when I'm brand new to this.” The truth is that you probably have things in your background, either your core personality, or even your experience in the workplace,  where you've had to coordinate. Say that you were an event planner in an office. You coordinated with vendors and other locations. You kept all these details organized to have an event or project come together. And so those skills can transfer over into remote work as well. So don't be afraid to talk about how those non remote work skills could actually work remotely for you as well. So my final question here is how do you prepare for an interview for remote job? Are there mistakes that people make in doing this? What should you really be prepared for? Maryellen thinks so. Because there is a confusion in this freelance or remote work or  work from home thing, she thinks sometimes people don't show up as they would if they were actually interviewing in person. And you should. So if you think about the same ways that you would prepare for an in person interview, because most of these remote teams are going to interview over a video first. So she would say that's the thing. Think of it as how would you show up to this company? How are you going to show up to an in person interview? And do the same. Have your background is clear of clutter.   You have tested the tools that you're going to connect with. So if you and I are going to connect over Zoom, then that I have tested Zoom to make sure that it works and I have everything working so that I can easily jump on and limit distractions. So if you got a dog that's gonna bark or anything, put those things up.  You want to show up as a professional.  You want to show that you that you can work from home and you do have a space to do that in. It's really no different than going to an in-office interview. Just treat it the same. Do you feel that that extends to clothing as well? So should you be fully prepared as if you were showing up to someone's office for regular interview? Maryellen doesn’t think so. She’s not expecting to get on a call with people in a suit when she’s interviewing people, or when she’s interviewed people in the past.  But just think about the level of professionalism.   A plain shirt or anything is fine, but just think about the level of professionalism,  You probably do not want to wear a hat or anything like that. But, no, she doesn’t expect to see a suit.  You want people to see you and be able to talk to you about your skills and you don't want them to be distracted by things that are going on around you. So if your background is like super distracting or cluttered, they might be focusing on that. Present yourself well.  And go that extra step to make sure that the area you're in is relatively quiet.  If you’re in New York City, you can't help it if there's cars honking their horns are an ambulance going by.  But she thinks a lot of people underestimate how loud the TV in the next room is or their spouse cooking dinner in the background. So just be aware of that.  Things will always happen when you work remotely that you can't  exactly anticipate. I would train my husband. I would tell him like four or five times whenever I'm recording a podcast or I'm going on someone else's podcast. And go that extra mile. Do that if you need to. If you have something that's uncontrollable where you're like, “Yeah, the neighbor's dog has been barking all day or the guy next door just started mowing his lawn five minutes before we start.” Let them know because what you don't want is to have someone thinking that that's your everyday working environment. It's just extremely loud, distracting every minute. Invest in headphones. You should be doing that anyways. Because when you are doing video calls, which you're certainly going to be doing as a remote worker, as a freelancer, when these calls are being recorded, you can create a lot of problems with feedback if you don't have the headphones plugged in. So it’s important to invest in these little things that will make it easier for you to work and help you appear  professional on screen or over the phone when you're connecting with clients. Well, this is really this has been so helpful. I think so many people in my audience who are thinking about remote work or freelancing are going to get a lot out of knowing the do's and don'ts from your expertise. Where can people go to learn a little bit more about you? Maryellen is on Instagram and LinkedIn. It’s Work Well Wherever. Her website is workwellwherever.com. Maryellen Stockton is the co-founder and CEO of Work Well Wherever. She is a people operations consultant who has worked for 15 years encouraging individuals to achieve positive work-life experiences and helping companies create inspired work cultures. 6 years ago, she began working remotely for a virtual staffing firm and quickly became an expert in company culture, employee engagement, and building teams, outside the traditional office. Maryellen lives in Atlanta with her husband Matt and her two kids, George and Winnie. The things that make her happy usually include coffee, people she loves, and mountains. Thanks for tuning in for another episode of the advanced freelancing podcast. For more freelance advice, get a copy of my book Start Your Own Freelance Writing Business—available now! Buy it from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, and more.

Okay, you've had your body fat tested. How much faith should you put in the results? I'll answer this question in today's Simple Truth Fitness minute (STFM).✨See my STFM on why body composition matters http://bit.ly/2pDnUZe -AND- see my other STFM for which body fat test I say is "best." http://bit.ly/34CqTQh✨In no particular order the big five methods are:- Underwater weighing; hydrodensitometry- Skinfold with calipers- Bodpod- DXA; dual energy x-ray absorptiometry- BIA; bioelectrical impedance analysis;✨Regardless of the method all body fat tests are estimates and only as good as the instrument operator, the calibration of the device and whether the recommended testing protocols were followed.✨At the boots on the ground level, if I were you and I wanted to know my body composition for the sake of assessment of health and fitness (a good idea by the way) I'd get a quality home bath scale that also measures body fat. It'll use the BIA method. I'd follow the instructions for getting the most accurate reading (i.e., not right after showering, or right after eating, or right after working out etc). I'd step on it daily at the same time of day in my same condition (nude) for 7 days. I'd see if the numbers are reasonably close and if not I'd eliminate the really high and the really low one. Then I'd average the remaining 5 and call it a day.✨But! If after doing that I was pretty sure something was way off? Like I've got solid six-pack abs and it says I'm 40% body fat? Then I'm going to find a place that offers DXA and get a full scan done. You can search for DXA scan locations here --> http://bit.ly/2Jup8fO✨DXA could still be off depending on a host of factors but it is the research gold standard and it's likely I'll get a relatively accurate reading. Plus, as a bonus, I'll know my bone density and have a more accurate view of my skeletal muscle mass, not just fat-free mass (which includes bone and everything other than fat).✨If I couldn't find a DXA location then I'd probably find an InBody location. Their high-end scales are also BIA based (like the home bath scales) but the sensors are both at the feet AND hands and, at least anecdotally, word-on-the-street, they are more reliable than a home scale. Find an InBody location starting here  --> http://bit.ly/

Episode 70 of The Teaching Space Podcast is an interview with Oli Bailey-Davies discussing the use and impact of plenaries. Introduction Hello and welcome to the Teaching Space podcast. It's Martine here. Thank you so much for joining me. In today's episode I am excited to bring you an interview. I'm going to hand straight over to Oli and ask him to introduce himself to you, explain who he is, what he does and where he is in the world. Martine: Hello Oli. Oli: Hi, Martine. How are you? Martine: I'm well, thank you for joining me. Oli: Thank you for having me. Yeah, so I'm Oli. I'm a lecturer at the College of FE in Guernsey and I'm also the Artistic Director of a professional theatre company that's based at the college that I teach at as well. Martine: And what are we going to be talking about today and why? Oli: Today we have the exciting task of talking about plenaries and the impact of them on your students and on your classroom, I guess. And part of the reason I guess why you asked me to get involved in this is our college has just started a new observation kind of model, where we were asked to specifically think of one thing that we could impact our teaching or our students. We focused on that as part of our observation cycle. Mine was plenaries because I've always, since doing my teacher training sort of struggled with the concept of plenaries, especially in the performing arts context. I tend to stick them into my lesson plan and then never get to them. Yeah. So I decided to focus on effective plenaries rather than tokenistic plenaries. Martine: I'm excited to hear more about that. Bearing in mind the listeners to The Teaching Space Podcast will come from a variety of backgrounds, some will know what plenaries are and use them all the time. Whereas for some it might be kind of a newish concept, particularly people who are just embarking on teacher education for example. So could you just explain what a plenary is exactly, and why it's a good idea? Oli: Sure. Plenaries are the sort of final task I guess of your session and they are a way of reviewing the learning to gauge, I guess students' understanding of the session. So it’s that kind of final task that you put in to summarise or review the whole session. Martine: So in some respects it's a bit of formative assessment. It's a bit of recapping, it's a bit of summing up, all kind of amalgamated into one final activity. Oli: Sure. It's almost like the umbrella of the sessions going, what did I want them to know? Have they understood it? What have I missed, or what haven't they got? I think it's a really good way, especially for teachers to ... I think it's almost more effective as a practitioner to be able to go, did I do my job today? Was I good at what I did? Or did they completely miss the point? I think sometimes you can do a whole session and you can really be like, "Oh my god, this is brilliant, this is amazing." And then you get to the final bit and they like they really didn't understand what I was trying to get to. I guess in performing arts especially, sometimes we work perhaps in metaphors more, or concepts. We're sort of trying to ... We try and encourage people down a path, or down a journey, rather than saying here are a series of information that you must be able to remember by the end of this session. So sometimes what you think they've understood isn't actually what they've taken from your session. Martine: I quite like the idea of using a plenary for both assessment, as in checking for learning, but also using it as a bit of an evaluation as well, in terms of working out the quality of what occurred in that lesson, in terms of your performance, and how you made that learning happen and things. So I think the idea of it kind of traversing those two aspects of teaching and learning is a really important point. Oli: Yeah. And I think to me really, I think I'd almost personally put it that it's a reflection for me almost more than for the learners. I find looking at the sort of the effective of plenaries it's about saying, well have they got it? And if they haven't, then maybe you have to be a bit flexible and you go, okay, right next session I'm going to have to change my style to task. I'm going to do a review of my previous learning. Or maybe I'm going to have to do that whole session again in a completely different way, because they have fundamentally not got the key thing that I thought I was delivering perfectly. Again, like within performing arts as a context, our lesson plans and our schemes of work have to be really flexible. Because you never know what's going to come up. Or you may plan to say block 10 pages, but you might get stuck on the first page. That's a whole session just on one page of text. So you have to be able to flex and wiggle your schemes to fit. I think the plenary is a really good way of checking in and going, "Have I done what I needed to do today?" Yes or no, and then and then from that, that will affect the next day or the next session or whenever you see them again. I think self-reflection for staff is one of the most important parts of our development and also the biggest impact for students because you have to sort of not be the master of everything all the time and be prepared to be wrong. Martine: Your point about self-reflection being so important for teachers is absolutely bang on and actually it's really valuable for students too. So if we can model that to them through our practice, I mean that sends a really powerful message. I get what you're saying about the need for fluidity within your sessions and kind of being able to adapt your scheme of work, that makes a lot of sense. But I guess if you're using say a starter activity and a plenary, it really marks the beginning and the end of the session as well. So where there could be a complete lack of structure, it creates a little bit of structure as well. Is that a benefit you've noticed as well or is that just me making things up? Oli: Yeah, so I always choose a starter activity like when we play warm up drama warmup games, but I choose the games really specifically to show the skill that I need them to use that session. So it may look like an irrelevant game, but actually it's a really clear, well thought out plan. Although maybe not everybody would see it. So perhaps a game where they're learning a sequence or a pattern, but they have to use words and movement. Then we're going into blockings. It's like, okay, well you have to remember words and blocking and we warmed up your brain to remember muscle memory and spoken memory. So therefore it is a really underpinned theory to the silly game that we play at the start. But what I've always struggled with is how to then mirror that at the end. The plenaries then have always become ... It's a ticket to leave, or it's one of the kind of the standard education games or activities that would kind of suggest. But it's never felt necessarily vocationally appropriate. That's where I struggled, felt that I struggled with plenaries. But I also always, always, always run out of time. I get really overexcited and kind of like, we're like really focused on what's happening. And then suddenly, we sort of teach in two-hour blocks, that time has just disappeared. I barely look up at the clock. Yeah, so I've always run out of time on my sessions and then would upload to Google Drive, or Google Classroom, the plenary task. It would tend to then blur into maybe a bit of sort of homework in a way. Or like a development tasks, going, "Maybe look at this." Or, "Can you comment on this?" Or often it was a sort of a review and comment on the work. So watch this video clip and then tell me two things that you may improve for next session. Or set yourself a target. Or whatever it is that I need them to do. But again, it always sort of felt tokenistic and like I was trying to fulfil some kind of educational model that I must put in, otherwise I'm not an effective teacher. Whereas it didn't feel like it was necessarily doing the job that a plenary should, of kind of really being in that moment of assessing, or reviewing the learning of the session. Also to give me an understanding. I didn't feel like I was grabbing all of the best bits of the plenary. Martine: With that in mind, you researched this as part of your college's or our college's professional development scheme, and there was an observation and things like that. What did you find out? What did you learn? Where are you now with plenaries? Oli: So I think the main thing I learned, or the main thing I took from it was that I was doing really good plenaries, but I just wasn't calling it a plenary. That plenaries aren't necessarily some dark arts of education. That they are something that we naturally do, and we probably instinctively know how to do it. We don't necessarily have to carve out this additional task. Because if you are teaching, especially in a scaffolding approach, you're naturally taking away that support. Then by the end the students tend to have something that is a bit freer where they get to demonstrate their learning. That actually is your plenary. So we always, if I'm say directing a show, and I'm working on a scene, I'll go through the blocking, we'll talk about character choices. We'll look at moments that could be developed or ideas or thoughts. They try things out in three or four different ways. And I'd give them feedback and it's a very reciprocal process. Then at the end of that moment, we would then put it all together and run it. Then I'd put a plenary task on the end to do something else. And it's like, well actually that run, that is the plenary task, because they they're showing me what they've learned, what they've remembered, and they're also demonstrating what I need to do next to help them improve. Martine: That's such a great takeaway. So what you're saying is you actually were doing plenaries already. They were serving their purpose. They were part of your teaching and learning plan from the beginning. It was almost a case of putting a label on it. That's so interesting and a great reflection on your part, definitely. Oli: It's definitely the thing of like, you know, we have, or I tend to favor the sort of the five minute lesson plan sort of structure. It visually works for me a bit better to have a bit more of a kind of a creative page in front of me when I'm thinking about planning my lesson. But you tend to have like certain amount of boxes for your tasks. Say there are five boxes and you're like, "Right, I must split my class into five. I'm going to do my starter task, and then I'm going to do my kind of introduction, and then I'm going to do an activity. Then I'm going to do activity two. Then I'm going to do my plenary." I don't know, I kind of sometimes go, sometimes my lesson is one task, but it's just a really big task that naturally flows from something that gets you into it, doing the activity and reviewing it. For me, it's learning how to break that down into boxes, I guess, to be able to compartmentalise each section. I could theorise my practice loads and have so many tasks and reflection points and feedback points and peer reviews, and all these things that happen naturally. Or I could get on with my job. So that's, I think, the biggest takeaway I've had is going, if I need to now articulate in a really detailed way, my lesson structure, it's all there. But ultimately I also feel much more confident in going, I've done a plenary because we have reviewed the learning of this session, and I've seen what the students have taken away from it. What they've been able to apply straight away, and sort of looking at the development metacognition, and their ownership of the learning. Most of my plenary tasks are much more meaningful because the students own it, rather than sort of arbitrarily filling in a form or a, I don't know, you know, sticking a post it on a wall. They've actually just gone, "No, I've done it. I've got it." Or, "I haven't got that bit, I need to work on that." Martine: There's so much good stuff in there. I mean, when is it ever a good thing that we do something in order to tick a box? That really sounds like what we were doing, you know, I don't know, 24 months ago in terms of the old approach to lesson observations. Where it was performance management and you had to ... You know how lesson observations used to be, there was a formula to get an outstanding lesson observation. You have a starter activity, you have a plenary, you make sure there's plenty of assessment for learning, you don't do a lot of teacher talk, etc, etc. When is that ever good? Oli Yeah, no, I think that's the thing. It definitely feels like, and I guess this ... Maybe it's an old school approach to kind of the fear of Ofsted, where you have to go through all these things, and there's a certain formula to do a perfect lesson. But I think also there's that thing of going, the perfect lesson is the lesson that needs to be taught. This is what they need right now, and this is how I need to do it. Of course you can be developed, and somebody can give you pointers and guidance on ideas, of how you could improve. But really I think especially in sort of creative subjects, where you just go, this is just what needs to happen right now. I remember I was being observed, I had my formal lesson observation, and we were lighting the show. It just had to happen, it was the only day I could get into the theatre. The only day I could have the technicians. And that was the time that I was given for my observation. My lesson plan was like literally one thing of going, I will sit with a technician and we will light the whole show from beginning to end, and the students will stand on stage and move when I tell them to. It was very old school chalk and talk, because they had to be pretty much silent. Do not say anything, until I ask you something, and do exactly what I tell you, when I tell you. Because that's the nature of vocation, what plotting the lighting run is. The observer was ... I just sat there sort of apologising in advance, going, "I'm really sorry, be as honest as you want to be honest, but this is ..." I kind of explained the situation. I got really brilliant feedback and he really highlighted how independent the learners were. How they had ownership of all of their work. They knew exactly what was doing. We were working completely vocationally. We were working in symmetry. The students knew what I wanted them to do. They were able to adapt, they were resilient, they were resourceful. It was like, "Oh yeah, all that stuff is there and it does demonstrate teaching and it definitely demonstrates learning." But because working in the vocation environment, sometimes you feel like maybe you're not doing the perfect teacher job. And you feel that you should, you know, put more bells and whistles on it. Like there was no maths, I didn't ask them to count to eight whilst walking in time to the music. Martine: And you didn't use an iPad. There was no iPad use. Oli: There was no iPad use, there was just a lot of me shouting. That was pretty much it. But that again, that I professionally know and there's a point where, as a performer, you become a self-moving piece of furniture. It's “I don't need your opinion. I don't need you to tell me what the problem is. I need you to stand there so I can make sure the lights are on you, and that the technician can do their job. Right now your ego is not needed, thank you very much.” Martine: If your learners don't learn that, then they are not going to be good actors who get hired, ultimately. Oli: That's a really important thing. I mean we very much teach the importance of respecting your technicians. That's a big part of the industry, is, you know, sound and light are people who get given very little time to do their job. But ultimately they can mess you up on stage because if you annoy your lighting technician, they will turn your lights off before you finish speaking. Or they will not turn it on quick enough. There's lots of many ways that other people can mess you up whilst you're the one in front of the audience. So you have to really, I teach a lot of like, as an actor you are only one part of this production. It just happens to be that you're the one that gets all the glory. But really understanding the whole process is a valuable thing for our learning. But also just being able to be ... For somebody, an observer to come in and reflect back to you, that actually I've worked for 12 weeks on this production. I teach company as my core thing. That we're teamwork, I guess, and kind of more educational speak. But that they are there as a company of actors. They are there to work together and they are there as a collective, and that their individual ego isn't being serviced. We get a lot of stars, or wannabe stars, and it's very difficult sometimes to put them in a box and go, "You're part of a bigger thing now, this isn't about you, this is about everybody." But that learning was then reflected back as a sort of almost towards the end of the process. It's like a summative way of showing that their professionalism is demonstrated more in that moment than it necessarily is when they're performing, because the professional attitude is just to be able to go, okay, this is what needs to happen and I need to do that now. Martine: Going back to the observation process where you were doing this tech rehearsal and actually your observer was able to kind of highlight so many aspects of good practice there. I also think we need to give a nod to the experience of that observer, because clearly they weren't coming into your lesson with that kind of tick box approach. Where they wanted to see this, this, this, this, this and this. They obviously had a lot of experience and recognised good teaching and learning when they saw it. Oli: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I feel at our college we are very lucky to have a very ... I guess because we're a vocational college, we have a really diverse teaching staff, who come from many different walks of life. Not many of them are educationalists, first and foremost, they come from industry and they come with lots of different perspectives. It's really nice, I think, at college when you get to go to areas that are completely different to what you would teach in. So you have zero opinion on kind of the content of the teaching. I have no idea whether or not that's how you effectively weld something together. But all I'm looking at is the delivery, the structure, the support, the information and the kind of environment. So I'm not going to go, "Well if it was me, I would ..." I was going to try and talk about welding then, you know, "I would do it slightly differently. I would hold it at this angle." I don't know that, I haven't got that specialist information. But I can stay that instruction was really clear, that was a really supported ... I can see there was development, you know, those are the things. And so my observer was somebody who does have, I think quite often observed the performing arts area, and always really says ... Has said that they always enjoy sort of coming in and seeing a world that is completely far away from what they exist in normally. Actually that kind of that distance helps you to remove your own opinion or preconceived idea, and you just observe what's going on. Martine: Absolutely, and I have to say, that is probably the best part of my job, because as a teacher trainer and assessor trainer, I get to see the most incredible teaching and learning happen. Not so long ago I was working with the local police force, and I was watching a firearms trainer assess other police officers shooting. It was such a privilege to be able to be in someone else's environment, and be allowed in. I think as teachers we can learn so much from watching other teachers in different environments. Ultimately, it is just teaching and learning. To make the connection with plenaries, it's much more of a concept than a specific set of games or tools or activities. It's about embracing the concept and making it work for your environment really, isn't it? Oli: I think so, and I think, you know, you can go online and you can find a hundred effective plenary tasks, or the best plenary activities there are, or buy this and we'll give you loads of plenaries. But really it's working out what is the most effective for you as an individual, but also for the session that you're teaching. A ticket to leave, I keep using that one because it the one I remember the most from teacher training was like okay that's a good one to use, because it's sort of tangible. But that's not always going to be the most effective thing to use. I always worry about students feeling a sense of, "Oh okay, why am I doing this?" If it feels irrelevant then, they're not going to get anything from it, and they're just going to write down anything. I also think plenaries have always felt to me like they're the last five minutes of a session. The last five minutes of the sessions are, you know, that as are people leaving, you know, really to me the other thing I took away is I tend to do my plenary, the activity really is, is probably three quarters of the way through the session. It's almost like you need a plenary and then an end task, like a fun thing to finish, or a don't forget. Or you know, parish notices, by the way, next week can you bring this in? Whereas it all tended to get very muddled on top of each other. Fill this in, do this, don't forget to do that. Somebody uploaded this, go for that. Can you make sure you stack the chairs away. Okay, bye. And it's like, what just happened? Nothing happened. Nothing was effective, nothing was learned, or no space was given to the reflective nature, I guess, of the plenary. For the students to be able to go, okay, what have I taken away? What do I need? What did I get? Have I got a question? Like now is the time to ask the question. It's like going, I don't want you to sort of next week come back in and go, "Oh yeah, I forgot to ask at the end of last session, what was this?" It's like, no, ask me at that time. Ask me at that moment, so that we can nail it, or we can make a plan. Martine: That's such a good point. That's such a good point about not having to have your plenary right at the very end. You know, why are you doing a plenary right at the very end? Because the books say you should. That's a really important takeaway that you've got to make it work for your learners and your topic. Oli: I think also when I started teaching, or started my teacher training, I realized that I try and fit in a lot into my sessions. Or I want them to really kind of grasp loads of things from every single session, and it's like 20 different takeaways. Actually kind of go, okay, well, no I need to dilute that down. I need to be ... This session I'm really just going to focus on these two or three things. Then your plenary is going, did they get those two or three things? Are they ready for more? That sense of being able to sort of take a litmus test. Go, "Okay, cool. Where were we up to? Okay, we're up to here. Yeah, I can give these people more." Or that person's flying, I'm going to ask them to really work on these two or three things. That person has got no idea what day of the week it is, I need to pull this right back. Being able to gauge where each individual learner is up to means that your plenaries have to be purposeful, and not just like say, "Oh, the books tell me I must, in the last five minutes, do something. Quick, here's a post it note and a felt tip, draw your emotion. Slap it on." Martine: Could you offer some advice or maybe any kind of resources to the listeners who are wanting to maybe investigate plenaries further, do a little bit of research, see how they could focus on that element of their practice? Oli: So the best sort of resource that I found that really sort of helped me develop is the How to Teach range by Phil Beadle, I think his name is. There is a book called The Book of Plenary. That's a really good resource for understanding sort of the purpose of plenaries, I guess. Then there are loads of like ... The Teacher Toolkit is a really good place to sort of start. They've got links to the resource plenary resources. My advice really is take the structure of any of the activities, and work out how to adapt it to your session. Even if it's like for giving it a theme or kind of redesigning it slightly. I also think sometimes when as teachers you kind of go, I want to find the resource that I can just download, and just do, and then that's just done. It's the path of least resistance. I think sometimes just taking five minutes to go, okay, well how could I just slightly re-imagine that, or make it work for what I'm teaching, would be really effective. So if you're on a topic, again, I'll go back to ticket to leave, which is just saying to somebody, "Write down two things that you've learned from this session, or two things that you're going to do. Or a task, something you must remember for next week." Or whatever. Can you fit that into your theme or your topic? How do you adapt things? Really, to me, I think, you know, primary school teachers to me are the absolute pinnacle of teaching pedagogy, really. Because they do this all the time. Constantly just adapt and mix up what they normally do to fit their topic, to fit their theme. Whether it's dinosaurs or Egypt, or whatever other topics there are. They adapt their resources, and they just spend that time ... A friend of mine, we used to meet up in the evenings, and she used to arrive with pages and pages of laminated stuff that you'd be sitting chatting, and she's still cutting out her laminated things for the next day, because she's like, "I just need these resources, and I've got no time to make them." And primary school teachers to me seem to have, they just have that gift of going, "Here's an idea, and here's how I'm going to change it to fit what I'm doing." They probably use the same resource every term, or every topic, but they just twist it, and then they adapt it. That's something I think teaching older students, you get a bit lazy about. We go, well that's just that, you have it, and there's nothing you can do with it. So my advice is definitely looking at making it meaningful. If your students needed to have learnt a series of 10 things, then the plenary needs to be, do you know these 10 things. Not don't deal in metaphors, and if a metaphor is not right, tell me, do you know this? If they need to be tested, test them, but maybe try and find a, I don't know, a fun way of testing them. You know, a physical Bingo, where everyone stands up, sits down, when you say a word, what's the definition? Loads of game shows have structures that work for education. Jeopardy is a great one where they give you the definition, you have to say what is the dah, dah, dah. But yeah, if you need to test them, test them, but be explicit about it. If it's a gauging of where they're up to, then that can be a really diverse and fun way of doing it. Martine: Oli that's great advice. Thank you so much. Any resources you've mentioned I will make sure I pop a link in the show notes to them, so people can access them easily. Before we wrap things up, I have one final question for you, and that is where can people find you online? Oli: So I'm on Twitter as myself as OliGsy. That's where I tend to sort of interact the most with education stuff, information. But I'm also, I am the artistic director of a theatre company called TinWhistleProductions.com, where we run corporate training using improvisation and drama techniques. Martine: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. It's been a real pleasure and I hope you'll come back again soon.

Welcome to the "Sober is Dope" PODCAST, with your host, POP Buchanan. This episode is dedicated to one of our "Sober is Dope" heroes "Eminem". Eminem Commemorates 11 Years of Sobriety on April 20th, and inspired all of his fans. The article below was featured in Men"s Health Magazine. "It's been over a decade since Eminem began his road to recovery. The 46-year-old rapper shared a photo on social media of a medallion stamped with the Roman numeral "XI" and the words  "Unity," "Service," and "Recovery" to commemorate 11 years of sobriety.  The photo was accompanied by a caption: "11 years - still not afraid." The caption refers to the 2010 song "Not Afraid," which directly  addresses Eminem's struggles with addiction: "It was my decision to get  clean, I did it for me/Admittedly I probably did it subliminally for  you." The song was featured on Recovery, an album that Eminem dedicated to his battle to overcome addictions to Vicodin, Valium, Ambien and methadone between 2002 and 2008. Eminem first tried to get sober in 2005 by going to  rehab, but relapsed after the shooting death of his friend, DeShaun  "Proof" Holton. Two years later, Eminem nearly  died from an accidental methadone overdose, which prompted another  attempt to get clean, this time without entering a rehab facility. "The second time I didn’t go to rehab," Eminem told The New York Times in 2010. "I  just went to a regular hospital. I detoxed in the hospital, and then I  came home. I couldn’t go back to rehab. I felt like I was Bugs Bunny in  rehab." He continued, "When Bugs Bunny walks  into rehab, people are going to turn and look. People at rehab were  stealing my hats and pens and notebooks and asking for autographs. I  couldn’t concentrate on my problem." Eminem  said that being a father to his biological daughter Hailie and his two  adopted daughters, Lainey and Whitney was central to his motivation to  get sober. "I love [my kids] so much, and they’ve helped me through so  many things," he said. The rapper also said that he replaced "addiction with exercise" after ballooning to 230 pounds after his overdose. Eminem's post-overdose workouts included running, boxing, sit-ups and push-ups. "I got an addict's brain, and when it came to running, I think I got a little carried away," Eminem told Men's Journal. "I became a fucking hamster. Seventeen miles a day on a treadmill. I  would get up in the morning, and before I went to the studio, I would  run eight and a half miles in about an hour. Then I'd come home and run  another eight and a half. I started getting OCD about the calories,  making sure I burned 2,000 every day. In the end I got down to about 149  pounds." He also used at-home workout DVDs like Shaun T's Insanity, P90X and Body Beast to help get back into shape. "I  guess I'm pretty compulsive working out," Eminem said. "I feel like if I  step away from it for too long, if I have a crazy week and take a  five-day break, it'll be like starting over. I'm afraid that if it goes  beyond that, I might lose the motivation. Once you're at a place where  you've made progress and you've got some time invested in it, you don't  wanna quit and give up what you started." Since getting sober, Eminem has released five solo albums and headline major festivals like Bonnaroo and Coachella." BY SpencerD --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/soberisdope/message

Joe Fontenot: All right. We are recording. Okay. Jamie Dew. Jamie Dew: Yep. Joe: You are the president of the seminary. Jamie: Newly elected. Joe: New Orleans Seminary. Jamie: Two months ago. Joe: That's right. We're glad you're here. Jamie: Thank you. Joe: Glad to have you on the podcast. Jamie: Glad to be here. Joe: I wanted to ask you some questions, namely around why you're here. Jamie: Okay. Joe: You, born and raised in North Carolina. Jamie: Right. Joe: You were with Southeastern for a long time. Jamie: 19 years. Joe: 19, wow. I didn't know it was 19 years. Jamie: Yep, yep. Joe: Yeah. Jamie: As a student, then Ph.D. student, teacher, administrator. Yep. Joe: Right. So well into that world, both Southeastern seminary but also just North Carolina. And then you came to New Orleans. In a lot of ways, Louisiana is a typical Southern state. In a lot of ways. Broad blanket there. But New Orleans, culturally, yeah, it's kind of like this island. Jamie: Yeah. Joe: Culturally. And so what are some of the things that have surprised you since you've been here? Jamie: Oh, okay. Yeah. That's a great question. You're right, I was very surprised at how different the city of New Orleans is from the actual state. Jamie: And you know, it's funny. Throughout the search process, the search committee occasionally in some of those meetings, they would reference that or they'd say something about it. I didn't think too much about it. I was like oh, they keep saying New Orleans is not the South. But I didn't believe them. Joe: Everybody says their stuff's special. Jamie: Yeah. That's right. So that's kind of the normal thing. And then you get here and you realize oh wait, they were serious about that. This is just not the South, in so many different ways. I mean it doesn't have ... it's a very culturally diverse city. It's a very European city. And that becomes obvious pretty quickly when you ride around. Especially when you eat the food, because it's fantastic. Jamie: And everybody says oh, the food's amazing. And I thought yeah, okay, everybody says they got great barbecue and stuff like that. But my word. The food here's delicious. And so you do. You see the difference of this city than really anything else you're going to see in the South. And so people had said that kind of thing, I didn't really believe them. But getting here, I totally see that now. Jamie: Because you've got racial diversity, you've got cultural diversity, you've got economic diversity, you've got religious diversity here. It really is a melting pot of everything. The good, the bad, the hard, the easy. There's fun things. There's challenging things. And I think it comes together to really create a very unique sort of concoction of culture that I really have never experienced in any other city. Jamie: That really did surprise me, I'd have to say. And then I'd say ... I mention one other thing that surprised me. This is a very happy city. And that I totally didn't see coming. Not that I thought I was going to get down here and people were going to be sad or mad or anything. But I think it's easy for people, especially maybe the Southern Baptist Convention, they still tend to view the city with this post-Katrina lens. What they saw, very vividly- Joe: Blight. Jamie: In a sea of that brokenness ... yeah, was difficulty and strife and sorrow and struggle and all these things. And indeed, all that was real. All of that really did happen. But the city in so many different places has bounced back. And more importantly, it's pretty obvious that however difficult all that was, it didn't break the spirit of this city. Tara and I, we came down, it was for my last interview, some of my interviews were on different parts of the country. And some of my interviews were in different parts of this state. Jamie: And then the last interview was here in the city of New Orleans. We came down about a day and a half before the actual interview. This last interview was set up to meet my ... for them to meet my wife. But it was also set up to give us an opportunity to see the city. And they wanted us to have some time well before the actual interview for she and I just to walk around the city and be in the city. And see it and eat the food and check the culture and everything. Jamie: So the first morning, we got in late one night, first morning we got up it was breakfast time. We drove into the French Quarter, we went to the famous Café du Monde and we're sitting there eating our beignets and our café au laits. It's about 8:30 in the morning. Jamie: And they were sitting outside under this awning, watching the French Quarter. And this guy walks up with a trombone and he just starts playing the blues. And next thing you know a saxophone and then the next thing you know a trumpet, and then somebody with a bass drum and then somebody with a snare drum. Jamie: And the next thing you know, you've got this full band. Just sitting there playing. And they're having a fantastic time. Which was really cool. You certainly don't get that in Wake Forest, North Carolina, where we're from. Jamie: And but what really struck is as this sort of random impromptu band struck up a concert for the people there, of course they were collecting money and stuff like that. That was fine. I actually gave them some money. Joe: They make good money, by the way. Jamie: They do. And rightly so. It's genuinely entertaining and joyful. But as they started to play, there were all these street workers that were responsible for cleaning the streets and stuff like that and city maintenance people, and they're walking down the street with their little broom and their sweeper. Jamie: And they're sweeping up the cigarette butts that are on the street. And they're just dancing to the band and that impromptu struck up a concert there for us. And Tara and I, we looked at each other and we just thought wow. You never get anything like that in North Carolina. This is genuinely cool. Jamie: And that was a typifying example of a city that we found to be a very happy, joyful city. That's really neat. Joe: That's a great example. Because New Orleans is a city that's kind of like Las Vegas in a sense. People, they think of Las Vegas and they think of the strip. There's not much else you think about. But Las Vegas is a big place. It's got a lot of good things going for it that are very much nothing to do with the strip. And I think a lot of people, they think about New Orleans, they think about seedy Bourbon Street. Which was about two blocks from where you were. Parallel anyway. Joe: And so then they also think about parades and then seedy parades. And the interesting thing is, my in-laws came down recently and we went to a parade in Metairie. Which is a suburb area and it's a very family-oriented thing and they're like yeah, we had a lot of fun and all this kind of stuff. And it's like yeah. There's only 10% of them you need to stay away from. 90% of them are actually normal. Jamie: That's actually another surprise. Coming from a non-New Orleans background, you come into the city, Mardi Gras has the reputation I think throughout a lot of the South, and maybe our whole culture, of being the very very naughty thing that people do. Joe: Exactly. Jamie: You only do that if you're a certain kind of person. So your point, everybody here does Mardi Gras. And there's all sorts of family friendly ones. And so that's been a neat surprise as well. Joe: Yeah. Well, that's interesting. What have been some of the biggest adjustments? I know you haven't been here for a long time. But I feel like it's also very still fresh. Jamie: Yeah. Joe: You know? And so what have been some of the biggest adjustments you've had to make? Jamie: Well, some of them are I'd say professional and then some of them are cultural. So professionally I've never been a president. Joe: I want to come back to that in a minute. Okay, yeah, yeah. Jamie: I've never been a president and you learn that in some ways it's actually your call now and you have more authority to do what you feel like God's put in your heart to do. But you still have to lead in many of the same ways. Jamie: So for example, at my previous job I had to ... if I wanted to pull off initiative X in my role as the dean of the college at Southeastern, I had to win the support of other vice presidents and things like that, to help get them to pull the rope with me on those tasks. Jamie: Here I may not have to necessarily get anybody's approval in that way, but it would still ... it would be profoundly foolish of me to just lead with an iron fist and demand. You still have to win the support. Because even though maybe I have that authority vested in me, it still is going to function vastly better and create an environment with the ethos that I would want this place to have, if we're getting people to buy into it. Jamie: And so that's new. There's always adjustments on that type of thing. Then I would say culturally two things. One has to do with the weather and one has to do with traffic. Jamie: The weather here, everybody told us, and this kind of goes back to the surprise. Everybody's like dude, it's so stinking hot there. And I believed them and I was prepared, I was really really prepared to walk outside and melt. I actually have to say, in some ways I feel like North Carolina in the summertime is hotter. But it does not have the humidity. So for example you'd walk outside there in the heat and the scorching summers and the sun felt like it was genuinely cooking you in that moment and your body just starts pouring sweat as a result. Jamie: Here you don't necessarily feel like that. But you feel like you walk outside and the air gives you a hug. Yeah. Joe: That's the best euphemism for our humidity I've ever heard. Jamie: It seeps into your clothing and it wraps itself around you. And you're damp all the time. Joe: So come to New Orleans. Jamie: Yeah. I'm a blue jeans kind of guy, I'm wearing blue jeans right now. And blue jeans are like wearing a wool blanket, as it turns out, down here in New Orleans. And so you don't want to do that, as often as you can. Traffic is ... oh. Gosh, I'm 42 years old, I've had my driver's license since I was 16. I've got a lot of driving experience. I feel like a brand new kid in the car again. Joe: Yeah. Jamie: Just the traffic. The traffic patterns are different. This whole median, or what is it, neutral ground? Joe: The neutral ground. Jamie: Space and turning left across those where you'll have actually not one but two stoplights. And sometimes you can run those stoplights, evidently, and sometimes you can't. And your light may have just turned green, but you really don't want to just take off. You need to look and actually make sure nobody's blazing through there. Jamie: So I feel like I'm having to learn to drive again and I'm certainly questioning my blue jeans wardrobe that I tend to wear. And learning the ropes of what it means to be president. Joe: You know, this is funny because New Orleans, sometimes people say it is America's third world city. And yeah, you're like eh, yeah, I could see that. That's right. It's got all the laws but it doesn't really have the behavior. And I think probably the best spin for that is this is the greatest place to come and learn to do missions. Because you step outside of a normal culture, in many ways. You're so close to it. Joe: You drive 70 miles and you're in Baton Rouge, which is pretty normal in a lot of ways, city in the South. But it's the capital of our state. But in a lot of ways you're here, and it is just a very different cultural experience. Jamie: That's right. And I think that ... look, I'm genuinely grateful for all six of our seminaries. We're doing fantastic work. Joe: Absolutely. Jamie: It's a joy to have six that are strong. And I think that the theological diversity between the seminaries, and then also the diversity in specializations and niches that we each have, is ... I think that's genuinely valuable to the body of Christ and to the Southern Baptist Convention. Jamie: We need, with some 15 million Southern Baptists, we genuinely need six seminaries that have distinctions and differences. And I lament and grieve over the fact that often we fight over those things and we pit ourselves against these. Jamie: I'm not saying necessarily seminaries do that. But those types of trends happen in our midst and I think it's a blessing to us that we really are so distinct. One thing that I think New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary and Leavell College can do exceptionally well in theological education for Southern Baptists is we can give students a very unique cultural experience while they're doing theological education. Jamie: If you're going to go, for example, to be a missionary in say Europe or Afghanistan or anything else, now granted I'm not saying our culture here is like Afghanistan. It's not. But the skillset and the tool set you've got to have to do ministry here, if you can learn that tool set here, you can then employ that in any context. Jamie: And so I think that New Orleans gives a student the opportunity to ... a laboratory if you will, to constantly work on and thing through contextualization. Which is vital to the proclamation of the gospel. And I think that we have a real advantage there. Joe: I definitely agree. I think NAMB agrees too. Because New Orleans is really not a big place. Yet it's still one of their send cities. Jamie: That's right, that's right. Joe: We have NAMB representatives here and they talk about some of the things, and it really is true. Jamie: Yeah. And another thing within that. What I've said to students recently, look, the city in the context you have the laboratory itself, is remarkable for ministry preparation. But then also the faculty that we have here is really unique and distinct. The faculty here, you can say virtually every faculty member we have is knee deep involved in vocational ministry in local church context in this setting. And this is a setting where there's difficulty and challenge and you have to do contextualization. Jamie: And if you can do ministry here, you can do it anywhere. And this faculty is doing that ministry here. And so therefore they have, I think, firsthand experience in a very unique way that I just don't know a lot of seminaries have that opportunity. And so where better, and who better from, to learn how to do ministry than right here at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary and Leavell College. Joe: Let me ask you a question. Jamie: Okay. Joe: You mentioned something earlier and I wanted to go back to this, because I thought it was an interesting point. A lot of times when God is calling us to something, it's not always something that we recognize or we've done before or we can even compare to something else. Right? So a lot of times part of what's going on inside of us is we are deciphering God's calling. Is he really calling me to this or do I just want this? You know, how does that look. Joe: You have talked before about how God called you here. You've never been a president before, there's not really a lot of presidents of seminaries and this kind of thing, so the pool gets really small. You talk to people and kind of get a flavor of this. How did you know, really, that God was calling you here? Jamie: I could talk for hours about this. I got overwhelmed and bombarded from every angle and vantage point that a human being could possibly be spoken to, in terms of confirmation. Jamie: To start off with, I was not ... there were so many things about this that got my attention. And it got my attention in a way that, as it happened, I couldn't doubt that this was something that the Lord was doing. Jamie: So for example, I personally did not want to be a president of a seminary. I wondered from time to time when people asked me if I ever had aspirations to be a president, maybe something like a college or university at some point one day. Because I was a dean of college, I loved college life. It's funny that I ever even thought that, though, because looking back on it I actually don't know anything about universities. Jamie: So I don't know why, in my mind, I thought that would've been it. I know quite a bit about seminaries, though. But my passion was college and so I thought that. I saw ... oh, let's just be frank about it. The Southern Baptist Convention can be volatile a lot of times. There are often storms that are raging. And here I am taking the helm of a ship and sailing it into a storm. Jamie: That did not sound appealing to me at all. And in fact it still doesn't sound appealing to me. And so this has forced me to my knees and my prayer life has never been as vibrant as it has been in the last eight months. But I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to pursue it. I had friends encourage me to quote on quote put my name in for it. I refused to do it. They pressed me on it, I kept on saying no, absolutely not, I have no desire to do it. Jamie: And it had nothing to do with New Orleans itself that I didn't want to be here. It's just I didn't want to be a seminary president. And I wanted to stay right there in Wake Forest where I was. That's where my family is. Joe: It's your home. Jamie: That's right. It's 40 years. It's like home-home. I didn't move there and it become home. I mean that's where I grew up. And so I had no interest in doing it. And Bob Stewart on faculty here is the guy that was approaching me, saying, "Come on, man. Come on." And I was just like, "Bob, I'm not doing it. I can't do it." Jamie: And he says, "Man, don't you feel like maybe you need to open your hands and see if that's what the Lord would do?" And I said, "Look, Bob. If God did something and made it clear to me that I'm supposed to do this, obviously I'd have to pray about this. But that's the only way I could do it." Jamie: And he said, "Well, what would that look like? For you to think that this is God, not you." And I said, "Hmm. I don't know. Me putting my name in it and trying to get it." Look, if I had half of a spiritual life and I had gone that route, and it goes somewhere, I would have to wonder is this God or is this me. Did I do this or did he do this? And I said to him, "Listen. If I cannot pursue this, if God wants me to do this, he knows exactly where to find me. If the search committee knew who I was for some reason." Which they didn't at that time. Jamie: And they thought that I was somebody that has to be pursued, then I would obviously have to pray through it. And so that was in November of 2018. Just a couple ... oh gosh, almost about 10 months ago now. Jamie: And he said, "Okay." And we got up from the table and we left and November ended and I didn't hear anything. And December ended, I didn't hear anything. And January came, and by that point I'd heard it was something like January 8th was the deadline if you wanted to put your name in for consideration, if you wanted to do that. Put your name in and they might consider you or something. Jamie: January 8th came and went, I didn't put my name in. I went on with my life. I completely forgot about New Orleans, aside from the fact that I was praying for the next president every time I would think about it. Jamie: And on I think it was January 18th, 10 days after the date for submitting your stuff closed, I was preparing to go to England to defend the dissertation for that second degree I did. And I got an email from Frank Cox, the chair of the search committee. Jamie: And he introduced himself and he said someone gave us your name as someone to consider. Joe: Was it Bob? Jamie: It was Bob. Yeah. Joe: For our listeners, Bob's going to be on the podcast later in this season. Jamie: He's a faculty member here. He was my sub reader on my dissertation 10 years ago. And we've gotten to be friends since then. Jamie: Anyway. Frank emails me and I thought ... well, by that point they obviously had seen my resume and everything. And so sure enough, the committee had seen me and thought that I was someone they needed to talk to. I called Danny Aiken, who is my president that I served under there and a mentor to me, and I talked to Ryan Hutchinson. And I talked to Chuck Lawless and I talked to my pastor. Jamie: And I talked to my dad. And all of them really pressed me and said ... my dad of course did not want me to go. But he even said, and this got my attention, he even said, "Jamie, you have to fill out that questionnaire." And I thought doggone it. And Chuck Lawless aid, "Jamie, you'll be being disobedient if you don't do it." So I said, "Okay. Well, I guess I'll fill out the questionnaire." And surely I'll fill it out and I'll ... they'll move on, I won't be the guy. Jamie: Rewind a bit. In 2008, New Orleans actually, I don't want to say came after me, but came to me to talk to me about joining the faculty in 2008. And a long story short, it was not the moment in our life that we could move down. From a family perspective, it was not what it wanted to be. And I don't think she'd mind me telling you this. My wife was not crazy about moving down here, mostly because of moving away from family. Joe: Almost nobody who comes from any of that area is crazy about coming. I've never met anybody who is. My wife's same thing. She comes from Tennessee, which is a little bit further, east Tennessee. Jamie: And for her it was mostly family. Her family's there and everything. And so she did not want to do it. And looking back, I have no doubt in God's providence things turned out the way it was supposed to be. But let's just say since then I always have a fear that maybe my wife would not be open-handed with this. And when that ... I came home that afternoon and told her what had happened, and even she was like we have to see if this is what the Lord would have us do. Jamie: And I'm like why is everybody saying this to me? And at first I was like me? I mean I'm not a president. I had not been the guy that was an SBC mover and shaker. That's not who I am. I just didn't have those connections and nobody knew who I was. Jamie: In fact, I asked Frank Cox once. I said, "When this process started, did any of you even know who I was?" And he said, "Nope. We didn't." So anyway. I can keep telling the story, but bottom line is throughout the process I did fill out the questionnaire, I answered things in stone cold, honest, straight up fashion as I possibly could. I just knew that I would probably be off-putting to the committee and offensive. Jamie: And I got a phone call a couple weeks later that I was in the top four and they wanted to talk to me. And I went into my first interview in Denver, is where we were. I went into that meeting looking for a way to get out, because I just assumed that they were looking for something that I'm not. Jamie: And I had no interest in being anything other than what I felt like God made me to be and do. And I needed in that meeting to be stone cold honest with them about what I am and what I'm not. And I went in the meeting and the meeting took a drastic turn into candor and frankness immediately. And I was able to share here's who I am and here's who I'm not. And I'm not going to be the guy that's coming in here trying to strut New Orleans and suggest that we're better than everybody else. Jamie: I just have no interest in doing those types of things. But I want very badly, wherever I sit, whether I stay as a dean of the college, end up as the president of New Orleans, or go somewhere else, no matter what job I perform all I want to do with my life is train up a generation of servants. People that will serve the broken and be faithful to Christ. Jamie: And I began to talk about that. And I could tell something was happening in the room. But I didn't know if I was offending people or lighting a fire. I didn't know. By the end of the meeting I had a pretty clear sense that something just happened. And I don't know. I knew there were still four people in it at that moment. I was checking myself constantly to not be arrogant and think that it was mine, because I didn't necessarily think it was mine. Jamie: But in the back of my mind, at the same time- Joe: Something has shifted. Jamie: Something had shifted. And that was March 20th, 2019. And I got on the plane the next morning early early, like a 5:30 flight to fly back to Wake Forest. And I sobbed and I wept the entire flight home because in the back of my mind I kind of had this sense that I was going to be forced to let go of my beloved college at Southeastern. Jamie: I mean my heart and my soul was in that college. And it was impossible for me to imagine doing anything different. But there was this clear sense that the Lord was going to take that from me. And that's how I felt about it. This was mine, I loved it. And no, it's not yours, it's mine. And I'm going to give you something else and you're going to love it just as much. Jamie: And I didn't ... I had a hard time believing that, on that flight back. And I sobbed and sobbed and I came home that day and I said to Tara, my wife, I said, "I just am afraid that I'm going to end up in a job God calls me to, granted, that I'll never love as much as this one. And a people that I'll never be able to love as much as I have them." Jamie: And I don't know how else to explain it other than from that moment, March 21st, that morning when I sobbed all the way home, till the next month and a half as I continued through the interview process, the grieving of letting go of Southeastern lessened more and more every day. I still grieved, but less. Jamie: And simultaneously, as I ceased grieving as much in degrees by every day, vision and desire began to take root in my heart for New Orleans. I don't know how else to say it other than God began to put this people in my heart and in my mind. And I could not sleep at night. Jamie: My second interview, I showed up and Frank Cox picked me up that morning about 7:30 in the morning. He said, "How'd you sleep?" And I said, "Frank, I haven't slept in a month and a half." Because, I kid you not, every single night all I could dream about was New Orleans. Programs, degrees, people, graduates, recruits, fundraising, the whole gamut of it all. The Lord was just bombarding my heart and soul. Jamie: And now I sit here and as much as I loved the college at Southeastern and my students, it's impossible for me to imagine being back there now. And it's impossible for me to imagine not being right here right now. Joe: Had you ever been through anything like that before? Jamie: Not like that. This calling was very distinct. But I would say ... so I've been a Christian for 24 years. Not the oldest in Christ by any stretch, but certainly got some street cred. And when you walk with Christ, the nice thing about getting older in Jesus is that your life, you get more reps with him, day after day after day. And you've had more chances. It's not that you get smarter or better yourself. But over time you just had the opportunity to see him be faithful, again and again and again and again. Jamie: And it becomes, I think, easier in some ways, to believe that he just might do something here. And I had never had, in that 24 years, these are not everyday occurrences, right? These moments when God just grabs your heart and turns your head and your mind to something. Joe: For sure. Jamie: But I can point to four or five moments in those 24 years where I can say definitively God called me to it. I don't use that language of calling lightly. And I don't think we should. But I remember the night that I came to faith in Christ, June 16th, 1995. I knew that night, after coming out of the drugs and the alcohol and the womanizing and all that stuff and the brokenness and the arrests, I knew that he had just changed everything for me. Jamie: And I was so grateful and so overwhelmed and so overcome by the love of Christ that I knew not only that night that I was home in Christ, but I also knew that I would spend the rest of my life serving him. Whatever that meant. I didn't understand callings, I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know that you could make a career out of being a preacher. I didn't know any of those things. Jamie: So I didn't know what that meant or looked like, but I knew I would spend the rest of my life serving Christ. And the Lord, for about eight months, just confirmed and confirmed and confirmed. Because I wanted to go in the military. I wanted to fly jets, that's what I wanted to do. I have vertigo, I could never fly jets. I'd pass out up there when I was doing turns. Joe: We have air shows here so you can go watch. Jamie: I know that God, knew that God, was calling me. I knew again years later when I went to go be the pastor of Stony Hill Baptist Church in 2004, in Wake Forest, North Carolina. Right at the beginning of my Ph.D. program there. Jamie: Very clear. I had a sense, the morning I handed in my resume. A friend of mine asked me, it was my eye doctor, my buddy Jay. He asked me for my resume and a tape. I dropped it off at his office, drove out to the church, and I drove up in the gravel parking lot of that church. Jamie: And I knew they had other people they were going to look at and interview. I knew that. And they were good candidates. It's not that I thought I was better. But I knew God had called me to the pastor of that church, and I pastored there for eight and a half years. I knew the day that I was asked to be the dean of the college at Southeastern that God was calling me to do that. And I know now, with everything in me, that God has called me to be here to do this. Jamie: And it does not make sense to me, in a lot of ways, because I'm probably very atypical as a president in lots and lots of ways. But I like to build stuff. I love to renovate stuff. Whether that's something physical like a house, we renovated our house in Wake Forest. Or it's a degree program or it's a college or a seminary. Jamie: I love taking something with good bones and developing it and flourishing it and renovating it and renewing and restoring. And I look at this place and I think holy moly, this place has got good bones. We could do so much cool stuff here. Joe: One thing, our office monitors all of the social media chatter and all of this kind of stuff. And we just on and on. And so we see all the comments everywhere. Joe: And as a reflection of what you just said, I think people are really excited that you're here. And I know you don't like a lot of me focused language, which we are liking this everything. But we haven't heard a single negative comment. Joe: We haven't had to hide anything or be like oh, that's in appropriate. You know? Jamie: Yeah. Joe: It hasn't been that at all. It's been a very fluid, happy transition. And it's been surprising, just because you just don't see that. I'm very thankful. Jamie: I'm very thankful for that. To be honest with you, that was one of the reasons I didn't want to be a president. I had no desire to lift my hand up and say me, I'll do it, put a target on my back. That sounds awful, to be honest with you. I'm not a perfect man, though. I'm grateful that it's been so well received. Maybe it's because I have the good fortune of being a normal human being prior to being an academic, or even being a pastor to be honest. Jamie: But I've made ... I know what I've done. I know what my mistakes have been. And I shouldn't be here. There's the bottom line, I shouldn't be here. I've done horrible things. Yet Christ has redeemed and restored. And so I would simply say I know I'm going to make my mistakes. I know I have made my mistakes. And some of this probably a bit of a honeymoon. Maybe there's an encouragement that I seem to be a rather normal guy. And I do feel like I'm a rather normal guy. Joe: You wore shorts the other day. I saw you. Jamie: I did, wore shorts. That's right. I ride down the road and my kids make funny sounds out of the car. But I make my mistakes, I know that I will. Jamie: And there'll be times I have to ask for forgiveness, or I have to correct something. But man, I tell you, I feel the magnitude of this responsibility. And this process and now this presidency has forced me to my knees in ways that really, gosh, it's been since I was a young, young, young man in Christ. Jamie: And that has been sweet. Joe: I think that's really a great testament to the picture, the bigger picture, of what's going on anyway. Like you described, you weren't looking for this. But God said this is what I want now and the transition just happened to, from our perspective, work really well. And so I feel like that all is the same story being told from different angles. Joe: I have another question for you. When we do things in life, whenever we go over and beyond, we're often driven by passion or a burden. When somebody, probably somebody famous, said I can tell you what you value, let me see your calendar and your bank account, that kind of thing, because that's where you're going to spend your time and your money is what you care about. Joe: So the question I have is you for that. What are the things that are burdening you specifically for NOBTS right now? What is your passion project, so to speak? Where is your effort pointed right now for NOBTS? Jamie: Yeah, great question. I would ... really two fronts is where my mind is constantly turning at this point. One has to do with big picture, 30,000 foot vision type of stuff that has to do with the ethos of the school. And then there's another set of questions that I'm always churning on that are very, very practical and strategic. Let me start with the ethos types of things. Jamie: I am struck. I'm like everybody else, to varying degrees. There was once a point in my life where it mattered to me very, very, very much that I be somebody intellectually and academically. You know? And so the press to publish and the press to do the degrees and all these things, there were lots of reasons I did that second Ph.D. But one of them was man, I just really wasn't satisfied yet academically. I wanted to keep driving. Jamie: And through way more things than I can talk about right here of how the Lord worked to break my heart of those things, maybe that's another podcast for another day. Joe: We could do that. Jamie: The Lord just broke me and humbled me and reminded me of who I am and who I come from. And I don't care about that anymore. I really don't care if I ever get to publish another book, to be honest with you. Jamie: I will and I'm scheduled to and I'm working on something. Joe: So if the publisher's listening… Jamie: Publishers, I'll get it to you, I promise. But I don't care. And I think it's become acutely aware for me that despite the fact that we're in a moment right now where people know my name, and even talk about me and maybe watch little videos about me or read articles about me or whatever else, here's the deal. Jamie: This world will forget my name. That's the bottom line. The day I die, the people that come to my funeral are going to sit there and cry for a minute. And then they're going to go eat some fried chicken and move on with their life. And there'll come a point where even my own descendants, probably two or three or, not two. But maybe three or four generations down, my own great great great grandchildren won't know who I am. That's family. Jamie: That's my reality. That's your reality. That's everybody's reality. So we should all remember that the fame for which we are laboring and striving for, the worship of our own name, that idol that we so often bow down to, is, as Ecclesiastes says, vanity of all vanities. I will be forgotten. And this school will one day be forgotten. And we should remember that. Now, the work that we do will not. The work that we do will last forever. Jamie: With that in mind, here's what I want this school to be about. I want us to be a people that first and foremost above everything else are servants. If I can be honest, I love being a Southern Baptist. There's no other denomination I would want to be a part of. There really isn't. There's so many good, wonderful things about us. But in our worst version of ourselves, we can peacock. We can strut and we can puff ourselves up, we can look, show off how big we are and how special we are. And it's all vain. We'll all be forgotten one day. Jamie: I want to train up a generation of people, I want to be a leader that, above everything else, just serve. And be willing, like Christ, to take the towel and the basin. Look, Paul says this. And we nerd out in Philippians 2 about the kenosis passage. Jesus emptying himself, he is God. It's one of these great Christological statements that Jesus is equal with God. Jamie: Yeah, I get it. That theological point is there. But that is not the point of that passage. The point of that passage is what Paul is saying about Jesus he says as an illustration to the point. You, let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, that though he was God he humbled himself and became a servant. Jamie: In other words, you're supposed to do that. I'm supposed to do that. This is what his followers are supposed to do. I want to be a part of training up a generation that they care vastly more about advancing Christ and his kingdom and serving the broken and the lost in the name of Christ than they do about getting their own church or having their own Twitter account with lots and lots of followers, or fill in the blank of whatever it is. Jamie: That's first and foremost. Then I'd say two other things on the ethos front. Gospel proclamation. This is something New Orleans has been known for and has done well in its history. And doggone it, I don't want that to drop off. I want that to continue on and march on. We have to proclaim to those that are dying. Because they're perishing and they don't have life, even now as we speak. Not to mention what's to come. So gospel proclamation is vital and key. Jamie: And I see in that, man, in church planting and church revitalization and missions and evangelism and all of those things have to be essential to what we do. Jamie: And last of all, if we're going to do that, this is the part that strikes me, the Lord ... I've always know this. We always know this, right? But you know, the Bible tells us in the book of Psalms that unless the Lord builds a house those who build labor in vain. And Jesus says abide in me and I in you and you can bear much fruit, but apart from me you do nothing. Man, we are called to things vastly bigger than ourselves. And the Lord has burned that into my mind these last eight months throughout this process. Jamie: And certainly for me I can sit here and tell you the job in front of me, the job that the Lord just put in my hands, is so much bigger than me. If I'm going to do any of the things that God's called me to do, he always calls us to stuff bigger than ourselves, if we're going to do all the things that God's called us to do, man, we are going to have to walk on our knees every single day with Christ. Jamie: And he's going to have to show up. If he doesn't show up, then we're in a lot of trouble. As scary as that sounds, I think that that's the right place to be. So I want that, therefore. I want this to be a place where we walk with God more than we ever have. And that might sound oh of course this seminary president's going to say that. But those who've been to seminary will understand what I'm about to say, and maybe those who haven't maybe this will surprise you. Jamie: Seminaries can often be the place where people's spiritual walks dry up. They don't mean to and it's surprising. But it's because we get here and all of a sudden Christianity goes from being a very personal, spiritual thing to now a very intellectual, professional thing. Jamie: Yeah. We're doing it professionally now. And when that happens, we're ... that is a perfect recipe for disaster. And it's also a recipe to make us completely powerless to do the work that God's called us to do. Man, I hope that we can cultivate an environment here where our students have purity before God. Where our students have a prayer life that is vibrant and passionate and they're walking with him. Jamie: So those are ethos things I want to do. And then I would just say this very quickly. Structurally then some strategic things that I want us to be about. Leavell College we're going to expand and develop a lot. Enrollment strategy, and by enrollment we don't just mean recruiting and admissions. We mean things like advising students, helping them with financial aid. Doing all the things that actually help students through their enrollment process, from matriculation at the beginning to graduation at the very end. Jamie: Helping them to succeed. Because what we don't want is a generation of students coming, starting, and then fizzling out. We don't fulfill our mission when we do that. The students don't and we don't. We want students to get here and actually complete their programs and finish their programs. We want to increase the number that actually complete. Jamie: Then marketing and communications. I think that our story, this podcast, has been a great example of the kind of thing I think we have to do more of. In the sense that people have a mindset about what New Orleans is all about. Joe: Very much. Jamie: And I think you ... God's like you and I, we have to sit down and tell that story very differently because this is a cool place to be. And then last of all, denominational relationships. I want to ... I need to meet, my team needs to reengage, the denomination itself. Because if we're really going to be servants for Christ we've got to be... So anyway. Those are the things. All that right there. This is where my mind is 24/7 as I think about our wonderful institution.

Love is NOT suffering. Love is love. And unless you are completely fulfilled within you are not in your Wonder Woman energy. We get sucked into the trap of being busy and calling it "I'm processing" and being miserable and calling that "healing" when in fact it's just unnecessary drama. I used to tell myself I was strong because I'd get higher than a kite from an external win. Then I'd lose it the moment I got triggered and I'd crumble like a stack of cards.    That is called faksies Wonder Woman energy.    We are trying to coach yet we are these little girls begging for approval, feeling unworthy, and believing we're not enough.   Saying the right words doesn't make us powerful, having the social media attention doesn't make us powerful.    The only way to feel empowered and know like you know the sky is blue in your soul that you are Wonder Woman... is by learning how to face your childhood darkness, and using that pain to create truth.   Which is "I am worthy," the pain is just a program I was given.   Only in this energy can you speak your truth with no masks on, full conviction and authenticity.   Fearless and empowered.    This is Wonder Woman energy. 

There are 3 easy levers every MLMer can pull to cause more success in their business…   DO YOU WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN MLM?   Back in the day when I was first joining MLM, I was brought to the side and a guy asked me, "Stephen do you want to be successful in MLM?"   And I said, "Well of course."    And he said "Well, what successful people do is they take their phones out and they chat with people in their contact lists and then they three way me in with them and I do the selling for you."   And I was like "Really? What if they're not interested. Alright, well sounds good if that is how it happens then let's do it."    This should be ruffling a few feathers right about now.   That's usually what happens, right? And there's nothing wrong with that if you KNOW the person has a pre-existing desire for MLM.   But if they DON’T, that can be really, really awkward.    I'm not saying huge down lines have not been created that way. Of course they have.    It's possible, it's just not very probable.    If I look across the street and I'm like, "Oh my gosh I need to go grab Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones needs this opportunity, he's got to come in and join me."    The problem is that if they need the opportunity, they’re usually not a good fit in the first place.    If they need it, rather than want it, that sets precedents for how they will behave inside of your down line.    MY FIRST DOWNLINE PROBLEMS     I started recruiting a bunch of people and it was awesome, it was cool, and I had a bunch of fun doing it. I recruited 13 people my first month. I think it was about 5 weeks actually.    NONE OF THEM DID ANYTHING.    They came to me and started asking me the dreaded question, "Stephen, what do I do next?"    And I said, "Well, do you want to be successful in MLM?"   And they're like, "Yeah."    And I'm like "Well this is what successful people do. They take their phones out, they reach out to the contacts, and then they three way me in and I'll do the selling for you."    I felt myself do the same script I was taught, and many of us do… Because we've just never been taught that there actually is another way.    My program, Secret MLM Hacks, shows you how to create auto recruiting systems. For any MLM that you're in. You don't get pitched in the program. I'm just trying to change the industry.    You've got to solve a lot of the downline problems that people experience after they join you.    There's followup problems, problems they did not have until they joined my downline. How can I solve followup problems the most for all of the people who are joining me?    HOW I SOLVE DOWNLINE PROBLEMS     I've trained my people and many methods. I've trained my people in many ways. There's a training program that we're coming out with for my team and I thought it would be kind of cool to show you how I treat the onboarding process.    It's a program called Hack MLM. Don't go there unless you want me to pitch you. What's cool about it is, it walks through all the setup. It walks through here's how to make sure you get all the bonuses you didn't know about. It walks through how to setup our teams recruiting funnels and systems and content and process and pitching.    One of the things that was frustrating for me with the first MLM I joined was that I felt like I wasn't getting enough training from my up line.    Beyond talking to my warm market, my friends and family… Once those people dried up, I didn't know how to get more leads.    I had to become a marketer in order to turn back around and try to solve this problem.    For the last five years I've been obsessively learning how to do that and I'm stoked because with all the ways I've been helping solve the followup downline problems for the people I recruit.     I finally have a full course that I send my people when they join me. It walks them through, day by day, for 30 days. Your first 30 days in my downline, this is what you should be doing.    Oh and by the way, here's a whole bunch of prebuilt stuff just for being in my team.    I wanted to teach you how to create your own onboarding system. I'm not pitching you guys into my downline, I'm telling you guys what I do though to help automate it.    MLM ONBOARDING PROCESS   When I think about onboarding, I think about it in several different fashions:   There's the act of actually recruiting the individual There's everything that you do though before you recruit them to get them in your world    Most people are like, "Well I'm gonna focus on recruiting. I'm gonna focus on what I say. I'm gonna focus on the scripts that I do. I'm gonna focus on making sure they know about this bonus. I'm gonna make sure that they know it's buy-one-get-one free, or there's this onboarding bonus if they join now."    Those are all cool... But if you just change who you're speaking to before, you don't have to do a lot of those tricks.   Most of the MLM books that are available in today's market are very much like, "Here's the top three things you can say to get anybody to join your down line."   I don't really believe in mind control. Instead if you just change the who, and you stop going for Mr. Jones across the street, "who needs the opportunity."   I start going for people who want it. It completely changes the game.    There's three levers you can turn in the MLM space that you likely don't know about.    WHO HOW ONBOARDING    WHO ARE YOU ONBOARDING?    The first thing is you can just switch up the who. Switch up who you're speaking with.    Secondly, you can switch how they're pitched. You know I have auto recruiting funnels and we still get three to four people a day asking to join my down line. We are about to cross 1,100 in the last year and a bit. Which is crazy.   Who I'm speaking to and how they're pitched - Those are two things I can have control over in the MLM space.    You don't own anything in MLM. You have no assets.    Out of the box, you just have what the MLM has given you. You get your starter pack, you got your bonus opportunities. But you don't own the product, you don't own the scripts. You don't own any of the stuff.    I'm not trying to freak anybody out, but I want you to be very clear about this. You don't own anything when you join an MLM.   Instead what I do is I change up who I'm speaking with. I get people who actually want to join me and buy from me.   HOW ARE YOU ONBOARDING?   HOW I speak to all of these people is not the traditional method. They have to go through an application. That's one of the levers I can turn.    My friends and family, they're not actually interested so I’m not going to waste my time and trying to pitch them.    HOW I bring someone into my MLM is very key. How I bring somebody into my MLM sets the precedent for what I'll need to be doing with them after they join.    If I recruit somebody by begging them, I probably just became a life coach for that individual.    If someone has to apply to join me or they have to prove that they really are a good fit for my down line. Now, what's the precedents I've set for after I've recruited them? Now I've become a business coach, not a life coach.    Now I go and I say, "Now do this now do that now do this now do that." And they do it. Rather than me saying, "Well I know someone said something mean to you are you okay, are you fragile?"   If you've noticed it's hard for you to reach out and contact those in your downline, you probably recruited people who were doing you a favor. They don't actually want to be in it.   I know I'm flicking some nerve chords here in this episode.   There's a few levers you can turn to drastically increase the amount of people that you recruit AND the quality of the recruit.    I'm not saying the value of the person. I'm saying the quality of the recruit in terms of what they're willing to do. If they're already business savvy. If they're already ready to run.    WHAT IS YOUR ONBOARDING PROCESS?    When someone joins your downline, there's not a lot of things you can change. That's controlled by the MLM. But after they join, this is a completely different game.    The thing that I have control over is my onboarding. The way I onboard somebody. That's a huge deal.    WHO, HOW and ONBOARDING are the three levers I can turn and have a lot of control over in the MLM space.    I can upgrade:    The WHO HOW I pitch people and HOW I approach them The training that they receive afterwards    After I joined that first MLM I was like, "Who do I speak to? I don't even know what to do next." I remember explicitly having that thought.    I didn't know who to go talk to anymore. Which means all I have is do the method I've been taught. Then when people join my downline, I don't know what else to tell them. I can't onboard them.    A lot of Secret MLM Hacks walks through this kind of thing. How to upgrade your process for reaching out to people and the onboarding piece. The onboarding piece is tons of fun.   We have several methods in the program but the one we're launching right now is called Hack MLM. It's free for those who are in my down line. What is does is walk you through the first 30 days in my team.    I want to show you guys some of the easiest ways to come up with the downline problems your people need help with. A lot of times, people want to have success and they're willing to do what they need to. Sometimes they just don't know what to do.    DO YOU WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN MLM?    The first thing I ask people to do in the onboarding sequence is to define what success is. When someone joins my down line, if they are actively publishing, and if they have their recruiting funnel up at a bare minimum. That is a very successful person.   Just the fact that they're publishing, they will recruit people. There's so much authority that comes with creating a video. People reach out, they want to join me. Regardless of what I have for them if they do.    Listen to tons of those podcasts that are out there in the MLM space on iTunes. A lot of those people recruit simply because they're publishing. That's why I tell everyone to freaking publish. It will change your life.   I need to find out what success even looks like and what it is that I want everyone of my recruits to be doing. I want them to recruit the world! Okay, that's not accurate, you have to think somewhat realistic. It's possible, not probable.   Other things your downline needs to know is:    Product education Back office education When the next event is Teach them to setup their e-wallet so that they can actually get paid Educate them on the bonuses Scripts Give them the confidence to approach people or use a computer   There's a lot of stuff someone has to understand in order to have success.    I need to figure out what order somebody should consume those topics in. This is not easy. It took me about three or four months of actively thinking about it to come up with the order of topics somebody should consume this process in.    ONBOARDING FOR SUCCESS   One of the first things you can do is go talk to the people. Talk with your up line. Ask them "Hey, what are all the things you have found people need in order to be successful." Then you list all those down.    Then you ask them things like, "What are all of the concerns that you hear from the people that you guys are recruiting as well, people inside of the rest of our team." That's gold.   If you can figure out what it is that everyone else is struggling with, that's a massive way to figure out how to actually go and build an onboarding system.    Talk with people that you've recruited. Ask them things like, "What do you wish I would've provided for you at the beginning." Or, "What are you guys struggling with right now?"    What's great about what I'm telling you right now is, it means you don't need to be a marketing genius to pull this off. All you're gonna do is ask, "What is it that you guys are struggling with. What is it that you wish that I had provided for you. What is it that would really help you."    And they're like, "I need more leaders. I wish I knew how to talk to people. When somebody tells me no, I don't know how to overcome objections."   So then you're like "Okay, I need training on objections. I need training on certain kinds of scripts.”    How do I help my team:    Get more leads Upsell Go back to people and tell them about other products that are out there so we all can increase our revenues    YOUR DOWNLINES ONBOARDING NEEDS   I'm gonna go in andlist a whole bunch of needs of my team. I'm gonna get them from my up line, from my downline, from people who are successful already. Maybe I can find several lists on blogs.   Don't try to organize it yet. Just brain dump it.    Then what I do is I go through and create 30 topics.    I organized them, I condensed them.    This topic, this topic and this topic are super similar - I could teach those at the same time.    And then this topic and then this topic - Those are really similar as well. I could teach those at the same time.    I condense them and realized, "I want to make this a 30 day thing”   It could be 21, it could be 14. You don't even need to do the day thing. Just the fact that you have on boarding training massively increases your likelihood of having a successful downline.    We made a big list of team needs. Then, what I did is I went I spoke with my up line, and other successful people and my MLM and I said, "Hey, how can my team make the most money from the get go."   Now this is what was really powerful. This is why I'm trying to teach you this.   “How can I make my team rich”, is what I asked them.    We went in and what we asked was, "Can you help us understand all of the bonuses that we don't know exist. What are the bonuses that we don't know our team could have advantage of. Whether when they're brand new, or existing."    SUCCESSFUL MLM TRAINING    We realized by day 14 there is a bonus thing that starts that I don't know if everyone knows about. Then if they do some other things within 30 days there's some huge bonuses as well.    We listed out all these other bonuses and now we had these milestones. So guess what day 14 was about inside of our onboarding training. THAT BONUS.    It's been 14 days since you joined our team. Thank you so much. But by the way, this bonus, you're now eligible for, it's really easy to get. This is how you go do it.   On the next day we said, “Hey by the way, if you take advantage of X, Y and Z you also get this bonus if you do this and this within 30 days.”    Here's a bunch of pre-made assets and pre-made lessons for you that make it easy for you to go get that extra cash bonus.    Now they got money coming back in.    ONBOARDING WEEK ONE     We made week one all about setting up the back office.   Setting up the back office Product education History of the MLM itself Different products An overview of where you get the most commissions   It's very much a familiarization of what is going on in the MLM itself.   ONBOARDING WEEK TWO   The second week was about how to take advantage of additional bonuses.    Here's how to meet and greet those inside of our community   Let's:    Get you set up and integrated in the first two weeks Make sure that your wallet's set up Make sure you don't do anything where you're not qualified for cash   That's one of the most frustrating things. I've totally had that happen to me before in the past. There's two things I didn't have set up in my back office and because of that I wasn't getting paid.   I don't want my downline to be doing that.   ONBOARDING WEEK THREE   On week 3, the training was all about solving some of these big needs.    I wanted them to get leads, baby. Lots and lots of leads.   How can I pre-build lead systems for them and train them on them? So that's what I did.   The last bit on day 22 (it actually stops at day 29, not 30) is where I teach them how to make NOISE.    How to:    Make noise Get traffic Get eyeballs Have a consistent source of leads Get the lead machines set up in week three Fill it with just tons of people   After that, the next thing we're doing is help them understand how to go and sell even more of the product itself.   I just want you guys to understand just because you recruit them, that DOES NOT mean you are done.   One of the easiest ways for you to get real big in this space is to just solve more problems than other team leaders. Just give it to your people. Train them.   DO YOU WANT MY MLM TRAINING?   All of this MLM training cost me $15,000. I have a very professional team. We built an amazing members area and a massive drip sequence.    It's really impressive but it was expensive for me to create.   The way you bring somebody into your downline sets the pace for how they'll behave in your downline. How you recruit someone usually determines if you'll get to be their business coach or forced to be their life coach.    Because of that, I make it kind of hard to join my own downline. There's an application process and a phone interview that is required for someone to join my team. There's a mini course that walks them through the set up of their own recruiting funnels and their own lead sources. Much of which is pre-built for them.   Here's why I'm telling you this. In the past I've trained my downline in many ways with many methods. But I finally decided to put all the training in a single spot in a course that walks my new recruits through their first 30 days in my down line.   Back office set up PLUS recruiting funnels.   I'm about to launch it to em. This is a new thing that we've got for them which should and solve a lot of problems.    If you wanna be kind of an ant on the wall and jump into see how I train my teams, you're more than welcome.    BUT, FAIR WARNING…    The course is meant specifically for my team. You will find out what MLM I'm in.    If you come in to check out what's going on, I will pitch you.   There is stuff all over the place telling you to just join my team.   Fair warning. Don't go there if you don't want that.   You might be trying to build similar things that I've built. That's great. Then come in and check it on out and see how we've structured everything.   If you wanna check it out go to hackmlm.com. Funny enough hackmlm.com was available and we built the whole thing on top of it.   Hackmlm.com is the actual thing if you wanna see how we've done it.    If not then, take the training that I just showed you. It's all free. No pressure. All free. Have not charged a dime for it. Not going to.    This training is for my down line specifically. If you wanna come in and check it out though, you're more than welcome to. See how I actually train and coach my people on how to pitch, set up auto recruiting funnels and a lot of cool stuff that's in there for them.   Please don't feel any pressure at all. I just wanna teach you that those who solve the most follow up problems tend to win in the MLM space. There's not many people solving follow up problems.   WHY I’M SO PASSIONATE ABOUT MLM TRAINING   This whole thing started because of my desire to get more answers... And I couldn't find them.   I've been obsessed for four years… How do I solve more downline problems for my teams?   I tried something and it wouldn't work.    Then I'd try something else and it wouldn't work.   I'd try something and it would kind of work, but it was only something a super psycho marketing nerd like myself could do it.    I was like, crap. That's not good enough.   Simplify, simplify, simplify, simplify.    Then I got down to space where finally, pretty much anyone can do it if they just decide.

If you're like me you know MLM is an amazing opportunity to grow a REAL asset for yourself. But you also see that there is HUGE issues starting to emerge. WHY haven't big MLMs let tactics change in over 30 years? Or why have they been cutting commissions smaller and smaller? How DUMB is it that old MLM rules say you'll get in trouble when you use the internet to grow your team? These are some of the blaring questions we ALL face today. I want to show you how REAL MLMers like us are waging war on the old dying methods. And we aren't cheating by only bugging uninterested family and friends. Follow me while I expose the shocking methods I'm using to build my 10,000 person downline, and get people begging to join my team daily.   HOW I LAUNCHED SALES FUNNEL RADIO   I wish I hadn’t launched Sales Funnel Radio the way I did. When I launched Sales Funnel Radio, I didn't want to talk. So I did a lot of interviews instead. I'd do two of my own episodes, then I'd do an interview because I wanted them to do the talking. Then I'd do two more episodes then another interview. Interview Me Me Interview Me Me I did that for the first 20 episodes almost. The way I launched Secret MLM Hacks Radio was... I thought people are gonna want to know why the heck I got into MLM in the first place. Regardless of what I sell, that's a big question. How did you justify getting into MLM? Regardless of whatever you do in life, people want to know that.   MY ORIGIN STORY   The first episode I did was what I called The Origin Story. I've told them this origin story, and at the end of the episode I tell them, “I'm here because I want to help people know there's a better way to recruit.” When I say, “There's a better way to sell product on the internet. There's a better way to recruit” there's gonna be some objections. “WHOA, I don't know about that!” That’s a vehicle-based objection. So what I do is, I tell a story. The next three episodes of Secret MLM Hacks Radio were lots of stories. It ’s literally a sideways webinar script. If you go and listen to the first five episodes of Secret MLM Hacks Radio again, you'll hear what I'm doing. I'm telling the stories of each one of the secrets that's meant to break and rebuild their beliefs. It will help people listen to me and it also future paced them for buying Secret MLM Hacks later on down the road. I knew it was gonna launch but  I didn't know what it was gonna be. I just wanted to start building the buzz and the audience. Then I told the story related to secret number two and three and four... An origin story A story that breaks their beliefs about the way MLM works. That’s a vehicle-related belief Then it's a story that breaks their internal insecurities. Usually, there is an identity shift that is required   OBJECTIONS TO MLM   Think about vehicle, internal and external. It's in that order because typically that's the way the brain handles it. It's also in the order because: Vehicle - they're in MLM. I gotta break the way they see MLM. Then I need to help them realize that the way you're doing MLM is not real... Not true, IT’S OLD. BROKEN! Cast it to the side. Those strategies, those methods for the old way, that's not good. So I told a story that has to do with that. Internally -  There's a story that I tell that helps them address the fears and insecurities they have individually. If I do this correctly they actually go through an identity shift. They start to think, “You know what, I don't actually want to be doing that old way. You're right. Let me come over here,” and they take a step off to the side and they start to feel a new identity come across them. Psychologically that's what happened, that's what's going on inside their head. The external related belief that I need to try and break is the belief that they needed to begin with a huge downline. OR Success is all about the MLM you join and making sure you join at the top and early on. That's garbage. It's not true. It's a facade and it is a belief that is passed around in the industry. I wanted to break and destroy that.   SECRET MLM HACKS RADIO SCRIPT   In the script for the Secret MLM Hacks, the actual webinar, all I did is tell stories and then drop some kind of offer/call to action. The call to action here was go to secretmlmhacksradio.com and download your FREE Master Pack. Now that I've broken and rebuilt the way they see the: MLM industry Way they see themselves Relationship with that industry Possibilities to do different things … Then it opens up a gap and I can step in with some kind of call to action. Even though it is free, I still have to sell it. People always ask me, “How come nobody's downloading my free thing?” I’m like, “Well, are you selling it?” They're like, “I don't need to, it's free.” No, no, no, no, no! t The price they pay has nothing to do with selling! That’s the reason why people still don't take your samples when you're walking around with your MLMs product. You still gotta sell it. MLM don't teach that. They'll teach a few closing tactics but they don't teach selling and they definitely don't teach marketing. That's what I'm trying to help you understand. What's going on inside their head is very psychological. I don't know how you can get great at this without learning a little bit about how the noggin works and the way human psyche goes now. You're gonna have to break and rebuild people's beliefs with what you're gonna be putting out there.   WANNA JOIN MY MLM DOWNLINE?   I am over 80 episodes into the Secret MLM Hacks Radio show, and I've done my best to keep this strictly educational and I don't pitch anybody or even tell you what MLM I'm in. However, the number of emails, Facebook messages, text messages, people hunt my phone number down, or even find my address, it's kind of insane, and it's kinda become unmanageable. If I'm gonna take this show where I want to, that noise is only gonna grow. So, here it is, here's my extremely soft pitch right here. Okay, I'm not gonna even tell you what MLM I'm in here either, but if you wanna join my downline, or simply find out more, literally go to joinmydownline.com. Simply for transparency, when someone joins my downline, this is what they get: Auto lead and recruiting funnels Proven product sales funnels A 30 day step-by-step set up system Easy traffic methods Unique upline support that's been assigned to us from our MLM headquarters That’s pretty awesome. All of what I do is not only proved by my MLM, but they consistently ask me to build funnels for the MLM itself. So again, if you wanna jump on the phone, and see if this is a good fit, literally go to joinmydownline.com. This is just to direct some of the noise I personally experience as I talk about and reveal a lot of these tools that my team has access to, which I know is unconventional, and it's kind of shaking the industry, which is really fun. If you're interested in actually making MLM an asset, joinmydownline.com is where you need to go now.  

W. G. Snuffy Walden - "Angela Smiled" - My So-Called Life Armin van Buuren feat. Aaelyn - "In and out of love" Bart & Baker feat. Lolly Wish - "Downloaded (Rogan remix)" W. G. Snuffy Walden - "My So-Called Life theme" - My So-Called Life [Layers] Olivia Newton-John & ELO - "Xanadu" - Xanadu [Loops] Ken - "Nobody knows, we're all alone" [Recorded on cell phone camera (live during show)] Olivia Newton-John & ELO - "Xanadu" - Xanadu [Loops] W. G. Snuffy Walden - "Angela Smiled" Live phone caller & Ken - "Possibility is possible (It's possible)" W. G. Snuffy Walden - "Angela Smiled" - My So-Called Life Ken's Last Ever Radio Extravaganza - "You Don't Have Time (this is good news)" - Show #509, from 9/15/2016 [Live on stage at Twisted Branch Tea Bazaar] Set: Michael Linnen & David Wingo - "Kissing music" - All the Real Girls Ken - "Collective faith (something good will happen)" Cowboy Junkies - "Ring on the Sill" - Pale Sun Crescent Moon [Loops] Sharon Stone with Garry Shandling - "If you're not in your vulnerability, nothing is interesting" - Garry Shandling meets Sharon Stone [They didn't want to be in their truth or vulnerability; they wanted to be in their mask, and their whole acting out of how fabulous they were. It's only really interesting to be with people when they're in their vulnerability. It's better to be with someone when they're making mistakes and don't know what to do, than someone who's being so sure-footed and phony. That's not interesting at all.] Martin Donovan, Hal Hartley, Anatole France - "Ignorance is the necessary condition of human happiness." - Surviving Desire movie / The Gods Will Have Blood [We are almost entirely ignorant of ourselves, absolutely of others. In ignorance, we find our bliss; in illusions, our happiness.] Julia Kent - "Ebb" - Character Lou Reed - "Street Hassle" - Street Hassle [Loops] Live phone caller & Ken - "Having a great winter" Carel Struycken, Kyle MacLachlan (voices), David Lynch, Mark Frost (writers) - "Don't search for all the answers at once" - Twin Peaks: Season 2 episode 1 [Better to listen than to talk. A path is formed by laying one stone at a time.] Live phone caller & Ken - "Daytime (mossy lighthouse)" Ken - "Trembling and shaking" Live phone caller & Ken - "Transitional moment (mossy lighthouse)" Ken - "Shape and timelines" Ken - "Practice not being remembered" Explosions in the Sky - "Your Hand in Mine" - The Earth is Not a Cold Dead Place Ken - "Try to remember what you said, hope somebody was there as a witness" Charlie Kaufman - "Failure is a badge of honor, it means you risked failure" - BAFTA and BFI Screenwriters Lecture Series [Let's not worry about failure. And if you don't risk failure, you're never going to do anything that's different than what you've already done, or what somebody else has done. And just know that, that that's the choice you're making when you won't put yourself at jeopardy like that.] Martin Donovan (voice), Hal Hartley (writer) - "Intimacy list" - Surviving Desire [Kissing, caressing, holding, slapping, shouting, talking, waiting, sleeping, crying, listening, hoping, encouraging, forgiving, laughing, relenting.] Ken - "When did this happen? People speak of slipping out of time" Malcolm X - "I live like a man who is dead already. I have no fear whatsoever of anybody or anything." - Our history was destroyed by slavery [No, I don't worry. I'm a man who believed that I died 20 years ago.] Alexandre Desplat - "Closing credits music" - Birth Ken - "I remember that I wasn't sweating, moving forward in time" Spandau Ballet - "True" - True Andre Gregory (voice), Rupert Walters (writer) - "Mysteries going on all the time" - Some Girls [Right under our noses.] Ken - "Leaving one cookie over. What if I had 5 minutes? Then I'd worry that if I only had 7 minutes, I'd have enough" [How long do you need to fall in love with someone?] Explosions in the Sky - "Your Hand in Mine" - The Earth is Not a Cold Dead Place [with Spandau Ballet, David Wingo & Michael Linnen, Cowboy Junkies] Ken - "You can go back and edit. How long does it take us to unlearn everything?" [I think we already know everything. They probably already know. But it's probably time to tell them. You don't have time. This is good news.] Sawako - "White Sky Winter Chicada" - Hum Alan Watts - "Wanting what you are not divides you (from Intellectual Yoga)" - Philosophies of Asia [So long as you can be persuaded that there's something more you ought to be than you are, you've divided yourself.] Ken - "Assume their posture, see how you feel (I used to look down a lot, I feel like a child)" [Regression therapy, inner child] Andre Gregory (voice), Rupert Walters (writer) - "Mysteries going on all the time" - Some Girls [Piano loop] Pink Floyd - "Goodbye Cruel World" - The Wall [Bass loop] Al Bowlly (singer), Richard A. Whiting, Harry Akst (music), Gus Kahn (lyrics) - "Guilty" - Amelie s.t. Martin Donovan (voice), Hal Hartley (writer) - "Intimacy list" - Surviving Desire [Kissing, caressing, holding, slapping, shouting, talking, waiting, sleeping, crying, listening, hoping, encouraging, forgiving, laughing, relenting.] Ken - "You'll have a memory. I'm going to look straight at you" Cowboy Junkies - "Ring on the Sill" - Pale Sun Crescent Moon [Loops] Ken - "Remember this moment in time. You will look back and be glad we have no more devices, no more electronics, we only look directly at each other" [Appreciations] Set: Cowboy Junkies - "Ring on the Sill" - Pale Sun Crescent Moon [Loops, back in 2019] Ken - "We almost remember who we used to say we were, the identity we're supposed to put on" [We're not sure if it still fits] Ken's Last Ever Radio Extravaganza - "Be Who You Are Today" - Show #522, from 5/4/2017 [Live on stage at Twisted Branch Tea Bazaar ] Set: Garth Stevenson - "Dawn" Ken - "Here it comes, something is going to come together" Lionel Richie - "Stuck On You" [Loops] Noam Chomsky - "Social Policy - Welfare for the Rich" Weyes Blood [Piano loop] Bill Cosby - "Conflict" - To Russell, My Brother, Whom I Slept With [Mind and body don't get along at all] Stan Dale - "Stop trying to be a good person. If I do nice things for you, maybe you'll love me?" Bill Cosby - "Seattle" [And you get a gorilla and then the old gorilla] Jesse Rose - "Night at the Dogs" Christine and the Queens - "Christine" [Loops] Mazzy Star - "Fade Into You" War On Drugs - "In Reverse" - Lost in the Dream [Loops] Martin Luther King Jr - "I'm afraid we're integrating into a burning house" Ken - "You've walked in on the middle of a bit of an experiment" Steve Paxton - "Taking care of your partner, and this third thing, what you are together" - In a Non-Wimpy Way War On Drugs - "Burning" - Lost in the Dream [Loops] Ken - "People are looking for the good bits" Live phone caller - "Luck is when opportunity meets preparedness. Planning is great, but being open is great" [over War On Drugs-In Reverse loops] War On Drugs - "In Reverse" - Lost in the Dream [Loops in 2019] Ken - "Disasters, looking for the lessons, we need tragedy, we need television, we need preparedness" War On Drugs - "Burning" [Loops in 2019] Ken's Last Ever Radio Extravaganza - "Be Who You Are Today" - Show #522, from 5/4/2017 [Back in 2017!] Ken - "Self-indulgent. Sometimes I'm too ambitious" Elton John & Kiki Dee - "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" [Loops] Ken - "You're allowed to be a different person every day (you can be who you are today)" Timothy "Speed" Levitch - "Running from the cops, every day I feel like a fugitive" - The Cruise Kyle MacLachlan, David Lynch - "Better to listen than to talk, don't search for all the answers at once, a path is formed by laying one stone at a time" - Twin Peaks Lara Flynn-Boyle, David Lynch - "Crying" - Twin Peaks pilot episode Bill Cosby - "Seattle" [Gorilla loop] Lara Flynn-Boyle - "Crying" - Equinox - "Light and dark are equal" - Equinox Ken - "I don't like to explain, except that I love to explain, I just don't let myself do it. The crying is back. People expected crying" Lionel Richie - "Stuck On You" [Loops] Chevrolet - "The American Look (the freedom of individual choice)" Matthew Modine, Lara Flynn-Boyle - "There's always this pushing and pulling. I have my you. My whole life seems to be taking place without me in it" - Equinox Matthew Broderick - "First impulse was to demand that she admit she lied and cheated" - Election Frightened Rabbit - "The Wrestle" [Loops] Garth Stevenson - "Dawn" Ken - "None of it actually means anything, but it can mean everything" [Record them all] The Go Go's - "Our Lips Are Sealed (vocals only)" Moondog With Orchestra - "Stamping Ground" Ken - "You can look for meaning in your dreams" [Recording your dreams] John Carpenter - "Our impulses are being redirected. We are living in an artificially produced state of consciousness that resembles sleep" - They Live [The poor and the underclass are growing. Racial justice and human rights are non-existent. That is their primary objective: Keep us asleep, keep us selfish, keep us sedated.] Louis Hay - "Every thought we think and every word we speak is creating our future" Frightened Rabbit - "The Wrestle" [Loops] Steve Paxton - "The preservation of all concerned. Not injure or defeat or smash" - In a Non-Wimpy Way Steve Paxton - "If thinking is too slow, is an open state of mind useful? Seems to be" - Chute (from Contact Improv Archive 1972-1983) Steve Paxon - "A body could endure for decades (can't exclude fear)" - Chute (from Contact Improv Archive 1972-1983) Ken - "Some people are apparently transparent (start to unthink)" Ken - "There were a lot of things. I'll just name one of them: Lionel Richie" [I have to look away to think] Frightened Rabbit - "The Wrestle" [Final loops] Bill Cosby - "Seattle" Set: Elton John & Kiki Dee - "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" [Loops back in 2019] Ken - "This is the moment after. This is everything you've dreamed of. This is everything everybody has told you to want." Ken - "All the thoughts from before seem to be relevant again. We reinvent the wheel and we are the wheel and we imagine the wheel" W. G. Snuffy Walden - "My So-Called Life theme" - My So-Called Life [Layers] End of set http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/83895

Episode 039 Hike Italy : The Italian Lakes District   Hike and Kayak the most beautiful lakes in the world*   Located in the Italian alps, the Italian Lakes District has spectacular pristine lakes surrounded by the majestic alps!  No wonder so many celebrities like George Clooney, Madonna and Sir Richard Branson have purchased homes here.   On today’s Active Travel Adventures podcast, we interview Christine Jenkins, who went on Active Adventure’s ‘Dolce Vita’ fully guided ten day adventure travel holiday.  Christine explains that each day, she thought if she had to go home that day, her expectations were exceeded, and still every day got better still!   She hiked stunning trails overlooking the lakes, and kayaked on Lake Como and Lake Orto (the latter being her favorite since it is less crowded).   Of course, in Italy, all the food and ample wine was divine - and plentiful!   Here is the Dolce Vita itinerary: Day 1:  Arrive Milan Malpensa, visit Sacromonte Varallo Day 2: Hike to Rifugio Crespi Day 3 — Hiking the Walser hamlets of Valsesia Day 4 — Hike down to Pella, boat to Orta San Giulio Day 5 — Sea kayak Lake Orta Day 6 — Hike the Mottarone mountain range Day 7 — Hiking Val Grande National Park Day 8 — Journey to Lake Como, hike to Vezio Castle Day 9 — Sea kayaking Lake Como Day 10 — Back to Milan Malpensa   Links mentioned on today’s show: Ep 28   Annapurna Nepal with Stan Ep 35   Mont Blanc hike through Italy, Switzerland and France Active Adventures fully guided 10 day hike and kayak of the Italian Lake district Podcast web page www.ActiveTravelAdventures.com Host of the Active Travel Adventures podcast   Twitter@Kit_Parks Facebook Group:  Active Travel Adventures Instagram:  parks.kit   Time Stamped Show Notes: 00:00   Intro 02:13   How Christine got in to adventure travel 02:30   How switched from regular travel to adventure travel 03:30   Making new friends on adventure travel holidays 03:55   Why chose the Italian Lakes vacation 04:58   What makes Active Adventures different 05:32   How difficult was this adventure 06:11   Adventure travel as team building 06:24   Where were fellow travelers from 06:47   How did she train 07:33   Is elevation an issue 07:59   Landscape 08:47   UNESCO Valsesia   09:48   Favorite memories 10:20   Refugios 11:45   Hike into Alagna 12:06   Alagna 13:06  Breakfasts 13:47   Italy does food right 14:49   Dinners 15:48   Typical daily activities 17:36   Describe the lakes 19:21   Describe the landscape 20:35   Visit to the glacier 20:57   When did Christine go 21:42   Using hiking sticks 22:06  Surprise lake swim 23:16  Christine describes her group 24:32   The trip exceeds all expectations 25:53   Mont Blanc and Annapurna (Nepal) 26:58   Celebrities at Lake Como 28:28  Played hooky 29:38   Using a local guide 30:02   Paragliding 31:57   Naked boaters at dinner 33:30  Christine’s guides 35:15   Fresh foccacia 35:49   Accommodations 37:25   What she wished she’d known 38:19   Traveling solo 39:23   Advice to anyone considering the Italian Lakes 40:20   How Christine chooses where to travel 42:15   ATA and affiliate partners 43:13   How to get the FREE Travel Planners 43:29   A shout out to Pat 43:37   Reach out to Kit   Time Stamped Show Transcript   Christine: 00:00I said to my roommate, my neighbor, I said, you know, if I have to go home tomorrow, I'm still ecstatic. I've had the best time ever. So each day was like a bonus day... it just can't get any better, and it kept getting better. That's all I can say.   Kit: 00:21'Dolce vida' the good life, the sweet life. Today we're going to explore the sweet life in Italy. We're going to the Italian Lakes district, an area of Italy you may not be familiar with. Welcome to the Active Travel Adventures podcast. I'm your host Kit Parks, and if you're listening to this podcast, you're not interested in an ordinary life. You want a bigger life, one filled with excitement, adventure, interesting people and challenges. You want to explore the world and different cultures. You want to stretch yourself. You get your jollies off a conquering a difficult feat, and you love how adventure travel can propel your life forward. At the Active Travel Adventures podcast, website, and community, our number one mission is to provide you with the information and tools that you need to take on these adventures. Each show explores an exciting new destination to see if it's something you're interested in and you'll be learning what to expect from someone like you who's actually done it.   Kit: 01:11If the destination piques your interest, then head over to the website where you can see photos, get more detailed itinerary information, and other important information on the website. Also, you can download the free printer friendly travel planner. The planner has all the important links and recommendations you need to actually plan your adventure, or you can wait for the beginning of the month when I send out a monthly and note, I say 'monthly' newsletter that includes all the new travel planners along with other tips and deals. I'll never sell your email or spam you, I promise.   Kit: 01:41 So today we're going to be going to the stunningly beautiful Italian lakes district. Our guest today explains how she enjoyed the good life in the Lakes District of Italy. So let's get started. If you could start by just introducing yourself and perhaps telling us your age.   Christine: 02:01My name is Christine Jenkins and I am 66 years old.   Kit: 02:05 And how did you first get into adventure travel?   Christine: 02:08I probably started a good 15 years ago. I've always wanted to travel. I've always wanted to see the world. I think I got that from my mom who never had that opportunity, so she always was encouraging. And I also love the outdoors and I just connected my two loves.   Kit: 02:28 How did you make the leap say, okay, I want to do that kind of travel versus the tour bus or go to the cities and all that? And so what, what was the thought process or how did you finally say, okay, this is what I'm going to do? And then what did you do?   Christine: 02:40Well, I actually, I have done the bus tours. I did two with my mom and then one day I, and this was before the Internet was really popular, I knew there was a hiking trip in Nova Scotia, Canada and I decided to sign up for that and flew Halifax in Nova Scotia. And my husband was a little worried about me going by myself, so that was my first test and I loved it ever since. I love the outdoors. I love the sounds when you're by yourself. I love getting off the beaten track. Usually you're with a group of likeminded people. I've met some fabulous people on all my hikes.   Kit: 03:22 That's one thing I, that's a recurring theme in this show is that you meet people... That usually each trip I make one or two lifelong friends from that trip.   Christine: 03:32I still keep in touch with two people. In fact, one couple lives in North Carolina. Actually, no, it was my second trip. It was to Newfoundland and there's a couple, both doctors, and they're in Raleigh, North Carolina. And I still keep in touch with them.   Kit: 03:47 And today we're going to be talking about the Italian lakes. So, of all the different trips that you've taken, what made you say that's where I'm going next?   Christine: 03:55It's actually a kind of a funny story. I knew, you know, I was looking around to see where I wanted to go next. I happen to be on Facebook and one of my Facebook friends kept saying, you know, he liked Active Adventures, so I thought, -- and he's kind of an outdoors guy... he teaches physical education... he's a kind of a historian... So I decided, I'm going to checkout this Active Adventures.   Christine: 04:21So I checked it out and I saw the different hikes, but the one that really drew me was Italian Lakes District, I think partly because of the length of time it was 11 days, which was really nice. We could fly in from Toronto to Milan. So it was a direct flight. It was easy to get to, but I think the kicker was we got to kayak for two days, which broke up the hiking. And I love kayaking and it was perfect. I asked my neighbor, "Do you want to come?" She said, "Sign me up," and away we went.   Kit: 04:50Perfect. Yeah, that's, that is one thing I like about Active is it's usually not just hiking. They usually mix in some cycling or paddling or something like that, so multisport, but predominantly hiking.   Christine: 05:01That's right. Predominantly hiking and if you didn't want to hike in a day, that's fine too. We had a lady who had a a meniscus issue and she had a torn meniscus. She had come in from Iceland. She was a photo journalist and so they accommodated her and so she got to do what she wanted to do during the day. So they were very accommodating, very flexible   Kit: 05:24 And how difficult is this, because you know, there's different degrees of difficulty for some of these adventures. On a scale of one to five, where would you place this particular adventure?   Christine: 05:33I would probably put it, I'd say between three and four. I mean I've certainly done more challenging hikes, but there were a few days it was challenging, like our very first full hiking day, you know, because where I live we don't have mountains to climb, so yeah, it was, I thought it was challenging, but it wasn't beyond... none of us had to say, "I can't do this. I give up." We all did it. We all pulled together and we had a great time.   Kit: 06:02 It's almost like a team building experience as well.   Christine: 06:05It was. It was and a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. And trust me, when you got to hike through some of these beautiful alpine valleys, it was worth it!   Kit: 06:16 And that's one thing that we really didn't tell folks exactly where the Italian lakes are... And this is in northern Italy. So you're in the Alps?   Christine: 06:24You are in the Alps. When you land in Milan, you can actually... It doesn't take long for you to leave Milan and you can see the Alps in the background. And a couple of places where we were, Switzerland was across the lake, so that's how far north we were.   Kit: 06:39 Wow. Wow. So what kind of training did you do to prepare for this?   Christine: 06:44I kayak because I live near a lake, so I did a lot of kayaking. I try to walk, I have two dogs. I walk them everyday, so that's seven kilometers. And I did small day hikes in my area. I've always had good cardiovascular health and so I didn't really find it a problem. I just keep active in the winter. I snow shoe and I cross country ski so I always had my heart rate up and I think that's the key. And pacing yourself, you know. Pacing yourself, if you pace yourself too, you don't have to feel like you have to be at the head of the line all the time. If you do, not to say slow, but a, a steady pace, it works out.   Kit: 07:25 Was elevation an issue for you or for any of the other hikers?   Christine: 07:30No, not here. I've had it in Peru, but no. I did not experience it and I don't believe any of my other fellow hikers experienced it, or, they didn't mention it at all.   Kit: 07:42 Okay. So most of the higher mountains are surrounding you, is that right? I'm trying to get a visual. Tell us a little bit about the landscape so we can kind of get a picture what it looks like.   Christine: 07:50Well, at the beginning, like I said, in our first full hike, you know, we went up through the alpine meadows. There was snow up higher in the mountains. You went through these little lush valleys. It's just like a picture postcard you would think of as a for Switzerland, but you were still in Italy. And you come to a little hamlet in the middle of nowhere and the people were lovely.   Christine: 08:14We'd have our lunch at a refugio somewhere. We'd have local meats and cheeses and you're just looking at the mountains and the waterfalls, and all you can hear when you're hiking is a bit of a breeze. The cow bells, because all the cows have bells around their necks and it was... there was no other manmade sound. So it was, it was beautiful, priceless.   Kit: 08:38 Very cool. Now in that first valley you go to as a UNESCO World Heritage site and I'm going to say this wrong, I say everything wrong, Valsesia, something like that.   Christine: 08:48Valsesia. Yes. I believe that's how it's pronounced.   Kit: 08:51 Can you tell us a little bit about that?   Christine: 08:53It was nice because as far as landscape, it was stunning. I'll probably use that word a lot in my descriptions, but everything was stunning... spectacular. At the main center was Varallo, and it was beside a river. And we hiked up to a UNESCO world heritage site and there's a monastery there. And you can come out over edge and looked down over the town of Valsesia.   Christine: 09:17Yeah, and yeah, it was incredible. Incredible. Some of the oldest religious structures in Italy are located there in. It's on the side of the valley.   Kit: 09:27 I see here in my notes that the Franciscan friars built that in 1491. For those of us here in the States we are like, "Whoa, that's old. Right?"   Christine: 09:36That's the year before Columbus sailed the ocean blue.   Kit: 09:41 Well seeing that sounds like a great way to start your adventure. Any other favorite memories from that day?   Christine: 09:45You know, it's funny, one of the memories I have is looking at the ledge over the town below and we could see this thunderstorm, this huge thunderstorm coming down a valley across the way. So that was really kind of neat to see and you could see it approaching us. And the thunder in the mountains, you know, they bounce: the echoes of the thunder bounces off the mountains. So it's sounds a lot louder than it was probably was.   Kit: 10:08 . You mentioned refugios. For those that may not be familiar with that term, can you explain that please?   Christine: 10:17It's a small hamlet or a refuge, I guess would be the English way. We went to a couple of them for a couple of hikes and one in particular we had to hike up to this place where we were going to have our lunch, and it was uphill and it was a, it was a challenging hike and it was by this really wildly raging river. Anyway, we get to this refugio. It's like a little hamlet there.   Kit: 10:43 Okay. I need some more clarification there. I think of refugio is kind of like a mountain hut.   Christine: 10:48There was, there were several huts, so you could actually, I think stay there, but I don't think they're privately owned and they had this restaurant. And there's no road in and the food was outstanding, like it was just, you know, you couldn't believe like you could have fresh cheeses and meats from the local valley.   Christine: 11:13There was fresh rabbit, there was fresh fish. Nothing was deep fried. Like in North America, we would not hike or walk our way to a restaurant like that. If we did, people would complain, but everything would be deep fried. Everything here is fresh and you could sit out in the patio and look at the mountains and the rivers and it was beautiful. Just beautiful.   Kit: 11:36 And so after your lunch, then what did you do?   Christine: 11:39Well, we had a bonus because we get to go downhill the whole way and we hiked all the way back into Alagna and that's where we stayed for three nights in Alagna. And actually one of our guide's, Andrea, he was from Alagna. So he was able to give us the inside scoop on Alagna.   Kit: 11:58 So tell us a little bit about Alagna.   Christine: 12:00Alagna, it looks like a little Swiss town, but you've got to keep reminding yourself that you're in Italy. There's all little cafes, shops... Where we stayed - at the hotel Monterosa - it was right beside the church and the church rings the bells every hour and a half hour, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. But it was a beautiful little hotel where we stayed. The town was old. Alagnal is sort of off the beaten track for North Americans to go over, especially in the winter. But English wasn't... It wasn't difficult to get by when you were talking to a shopkeeper or in a little cafe, you were understood or you figured it out. But there were all little side streets. There was a beautiful little river going outside of town, which we could hear from our hotel. And yeah, it was a lovely time. We were there for three nights. Fabulous breakfast in the morning. Yeah, it was great.   Kit: 12:57 And so what, what kind of foods do they have for breakfast? And from my notes, it looks like that whole area was populated by German people that moved there in like fifth century AD or something.   Christine: 13:08Yeah, the Valser people. Yes. Well the hotel we stayed at for the three days are actually owned by some, a couple from Sweden and think that's been a couple of generations in their family. But in breakfast we had fresh fruit, Granola, homemade breads, homemade jams, coffee, tea, yogurt. Really good yogurt. You didn't starve. That's all I can tell you. It was probably the best Granola I've ever had in my life.   Kit: 13:37 Probably freshly made and everything. And they do food right!   Christine: 13:40It's all fresh. I can tell you that whole trip I did not have... We did not have one bad meal anywhere. It was hard to come home.   Kit: 13:50 We could sure learn how to do food better from the way they do things we do. We do. And they eat seasonally to. They wouldn't think of having strawberries in the middle of winter. They eat what is locally produced and available then.   Christine: 14:01They do eat seasonal and the other thing they do is they eat as local as possible, so you may get... If we had a prepared lunch, like maybe our guide, we had two guides, Andrea and Jo, and they might prepare, pick up some stuff, at little stores or grocery stores and they put out this fabulous picnic lunch with cheeses that were from that valley. That was the only place you could get it or salamis... That type thing. Breads, fresh fruit and yeah, it was. It was incredible. The wine, of course we had wine at lunch.   Kit: 14:37 Nice. Nice. And what about dinner?   Christine: 14:39Well actually I was going to say that was one of the things that was outstanding for this trip was the food. All our meals were covered and nothing was skimped on. We ate the best you could possibly have. We had wine with lunch. Usually we had wine with dinner, but what was interesting is after we'd finished our hike for the day or our kayak, we go back to our rooms, change, meet for dinner. We'd always have an aperitivo, which is like... it was a tray brought out and the had meats and cheeses and crackers and add wine. Then I'd think, "Oh, that's our dinner." No, it's not dinner, and then we'd still go to a restaurant. And so I'm really glad that we were hiking because I'm sure I'dve come home about 10 pounds more than I normally am.   Kit: 15:27And you're in Italy so you know everything's going to be good.   Christine: 15:31Oh yeah. Everything was beyond my expectations. Everything was fresh, nothing was processed. It was awesome.   Kit: 15:39 Very cool. So now you're using this as your base camp. So what kinds of things did you do each day?   Christine: 15:44If we didn't do hiking, we did the kayaking on the lakes: Lake Orta and Lake Como. We didn't kayak on Maggiore. There was one day we decided as a group -- and we had a small group that was just five hikers-- so that was kind of nice, and we decided one day we didn't want to hike and were in Stresa, which is on Lake Maggiore. So we went and walked into town. Some went to the islands and we did a little bit of shopping. So we just, like I say, the guidess were very flexible, and like I said, we decided we didn't want to hike that day.   Christine: 16:19On the days we went kayaking, we'd be out by the water's edge at nine in the morning and then there was a gentleman by the name of Juliana who came up from Genoa, Italy. He brought the kayaks first time, most all the people had kayaked before, so that was good. But he gave us safety instructions. We got fitted with life jackets and we were usually by 9:30, we were out on the lakes. We stop about maybe 10, 30, 11 at a little village and stop for an espresso and then we get back in our kayak, kayak a bit more and then stop it another village and maybe have lunch or stop at a beach. And our guides would put lunch out. In between that we go swimming in the lakes. And then in the afternoon we might stop about 2:30 or 3:00 in another little village and have gelato. It was very civilized. It was, yeah. It was very civilized.   Christine: 17:19And swimming: The lakes were clear and it was... It was hard to believe you weren't at the ocean. The colors of the lakes were beautiful.   Kit: 17:28 So tell us about the lakes itself. What is it? The fact that the lakes are surrounded by mountains or the lakes are particularly pretty in and of themselves? I'm trying to get a feel for what it looks like.   Christine: 17:39Well, the lakes are, they are like jewels. And there was this one day we did hike to the top of one of the mountains , and we could see Orta and Maggiore on both sides. So we had a really good view. Orta is the smallest, then Maggiore, then Como. The lakes were like a blue color, like a aqua blue color. Very clear. Especially in Como. The sides had these old Italian homes that have probably been in families for generations.   Christine: 18:10You know, there's the Piazza's nearby, and I think George and Amal Clooney live on Como, (but we didn't see them). But very steep sides to a lot of the lakes, but there are some beaches. Two of the lakes are Lake Como and Lake Orta are what they call 'crypto depression' and that's the one word I took away... my takeaway from that trip. Crypto depression means the bottom of the lake is actually below sea level and there are a few other ones in the world. Actually the Finger Lakes up in New York state. And actuallyOrta is not a crypto depression. Maggiore and Como are crypto depression, so they're below sea level and the lakes are usually long and narrow and their shores are very steep.   Christine: 19:06I think it was in Maggiore that they believe Mussolini hid his gold and it might be lying at the bottom of the lake. He had a hideout on Maggiore, on one of the islands on Maggiore. So that's the legend. That's a local legend   Kit: 19:12 OK, so when you're doing the hiking, are you in pastures, forests, or what are you hiking through?   Christine: 19:17We're doing it all. There were pastures, forests... There was one day we went through a whole, for about an hour and a half, all it was was chestnut trees. And it was quite a challenging hike. It was steep and it was very hot, but it was so, it was so pretty and so quiet. And we came out to pasture area, and then we had to go under some fences. So yes we had a real variety of landscapes for. hiking.   Christine: 19:57There was another day when we went up in a gondola and then we went up on a series of three gondolas, too. We actually got up to where the glaciers were, and that was an interesting day. It was cold and there was a lot of ice hikers, they had the crampons on their boots and they were doing some ice hiking. But we had to take three sets of gondolas to go higher and higher and higher. And if you have a fear of heights, you may not want to take it. I found that kind of a challenge, but you know, it was very barren landscape, which is a rock and ice and we'd be going along and you'd think that the gondola was going to hit the side of a rock face and then suddenly it will go up and then you were in your station where you get off and walk to the next one and keep going higher up. That was quite incredible.   Kit: 20:33 Did you get to walk on the glacier or just look at it?   Christine: 20:37Yes. We got to walk on the snow. Yes, we did. That is so cool. It was down below. It was probably in the upper eighties, low nineties up (there). It was a bit of a reprieve.   Kit: 20:49 And so what month did you go?   Christine 20:50 July   Kit: 20:52 July. Okay. So you're in the heat of summer.   Christine: 20:53Oh yes. Yes. But apparently it was very warm there in June. They had a trip in June, so I understand it was warm then, but you know what? It wasn't a really oppressive heat. It wasn't really humid. It wasn't really dry, but it was manageable. If you're dressed appropriately, I would strongly recommend a sun hat, especially to cover the back of your neck and your face, I would. That's the one thing. And the other thing I would suggest to people is to take hiking poles. Some people didn't. I think that they're really is helpful for, steadying yourself and, and pulling yourself up on steep parts or giving you some stability.  And when we're on the way down the mountain.   Kit: 21:33 Well I like poles too, for going downhill because they take a lot of pressure off my knee. Yes. And also I'm clumsy. I cannot tell you how many falls they've stopped by having that extra appendage to me or crossing a river or creek. They give you that little extra stability. I don't think I've ever fallen in a creek. I don't want to jinx myself though.   Christine: 21:50No, I haven't either, but one never knows.   Kit: 21:54 Of course. Now I will. Now that I've put that out in the universe. Any other special memories from that area?   Christine: 22:00Well, one of the days I have that sticks out in my mind was on Lake Orta and we went over to San Giulio Island and it's... There's a monastery there and abbey and you could... It's very easy to walk around this little island and there's several spots where you looked down like the old cobblestone streets.   Christine: 22:20Very narrow. In fact, I don't even think there was vehicles on it. I don't even recall any vehicles anyway that you could go swimming. So our group (Jo left us, she had to do some things), so our group, we went down the small passageway to the lake and four of us didn't have bathing suits on, but they were in our pack sack, so we lost all modesty. Just went into just a little dip in the wall, threw caution to the wind, stripped down, put on our bathing suits, dove in the lake, and we thought, well, if there's cameras out there, there's cameras out there. So be it. But the water felt so beautiful against your hot skin. It was...it was beautiful. It was just the most incredible feeling. You can feel yourself cool down and we were laughing like crazy, yet we felt like kids.   Kit: 23:07 That was fun. In your group, you said there's a small group of five: men, women or a combination?   Christine: 23:12All women. My neighbor came, and then there was a lady from San Diego and a lady from Manhattan, and a lady from Rochester.   Kit: 23:21 And what would you say the age group range was?   Christine: 23:24I would say the age group would have been maybe 52... The lady from San Diego was in her fifties, early fifties and to about in the upper seventies. And these ladies -- all of them are really in great shape -- they did their age group proud. They had nothing to be ashamed of . We had the lady from Rochester who was in her seventies and she was fabulous. She was in fabulous shape.   Kit: 23:55 Wow. Those are my role models. In fact, I interviewed a guy by the name of Stan on the Annapurna episode, which I'll put a link to in the show notes. He's in his seventies and has already planned an adventure for two years out. Unbelievable! Cool. That's how I want to age.   Christine: 24:07Wow. That's good for him. Well, I'm planning to go to Mont Blanc next year. I've already booked my trip.   Kit: 24:16 Alright, so any other, any other thoughts about that area before we go to the Val Grande National Park?   Christine: 24:22All I can say... I'll just reiterate just the whole atmosphere. You know, it's funny, I was thinking about it last night: thinking about what I was going to say each day of that trip, the whole trip and combination each day. I, I remember saying to my roommate, my neighbor, I said, "You know, if I have to go home tomorrow, I'm still ecstatic. I've had the best time ever. So each day was like a bonus day, a bonus day. It just... it can't get any better, and it kept getting better. That's all I can say. This has been no doubt, the best hiking trip I've ever had, and I've been to a lot of places. There was nothing I have to say bad about it. Nothing.   Kit: 25:10Wow. And that sure says a lot.   Christine: 25:12Yes. And I'd actually consider going back again in two years... Do it again.   Kit: 25:17 Yeah. It hadn't really even been on my radar, but then I started doing some research, and I thought, that looks really nice. I think that's now on the radar.   Christine: 25:23Well, it hadn't been on my radar either. I mean I have looked at other places. I've looked at Scotland, I've been to Scotland before. I thought about Iceland and I do know Active Adventures does Iceland now, but I was supposed to go to Mont Blanc with another company two years ago, but I badly broke my arm so that put a caboosh on that. So anyway. But anyways...   Kit: 25:46 In fact, the Mont Blanc episode is probably one of my most popular ones.You'll want to take a look at that? That's episode number 35, and I forgot to mention that Stanley, the guy that I said in the seventies that did Annapurna in Nepal, his was episode number 28. Anytime you want to look at an old episode, just go to ActiveTravelAdventures.comslash the episode number, so it'd be slashed 28 or 35, or if you forget, just go to the Directory Page, and then you can either use the search bar or just scroll down and see what rocks your boat.   Kit: 26:15On the website. You can either directly download and/or listen to the podcasts.Plus, you'll also find more details on the trip itself, including itineraries, tons of photos, often videos, and there's just a lot of information there. If you need either even further details, you can download -for free- the travel planners that have clickable links that can get you directly to the information or places that you need in order to plan your trip. And those come automatically with the monthly -- and note that I say monthly-- newsletter. I do not spam you or sell your name. Or you can download them as you need them from the website. Let's go back to the interview.   Kit: 26:50I know from the pictures that you sent, and from my research that the Italian Lakes area is absolutely gorgeous. But to put that in prospective, residents have included George and Amal Clooney, Richard Branson, Madonna.. These are folks who can buy and live anywhere: where money is no object. Yet, this is where they choose. That demonstrates how beautiful it is there.   Christine: 27:13There are some beautiful mansions and you can tell they've been in families for a long, long time and they're old architecture but so beautifully maintained and what was really neat is the boat pulls into a garage at the side of the cliff. It's like a boat garage, you know, and these beautiful old wooden boats. Oh yeah. Fabulous. Fabulous. Obviously this is a ritzy area, very private, very exclusive, especially at Como and. But you'll also see a lot more North Americans there too. Like eEnglish is extremely common, and British and British accents or North American accent. So on my flight over to Milan, there were people... That's where they were going to Bellagio on Lake Como,   Kit: 28:04 A Huffington Post article once ranked the Italian Lakes district as the most beautiful lakes in the world.   Christine: 28:10Oh, I can understand that! Orto is not as busy a lake. It's the smaller of the lakes. I preferred that lake just because it was less busy.   Kit: 28:21 So let's switch gears and now you're going to the Val Grande National Park. an you tell us a little bit about that?   Christine: 28:24Yeah, that was the one day... We actually that day we did not do that. That was the day we decided not to hike. That was the hookey day. So a couple of us walked into Stresa, which is a small village, beautiful little boardwalk from where we were staying, all the way into Stresa. And some of these beautiful old hotels along the lake side, you know, something you would see from the 1920's-30's. I'm sure they're wildly expensive and then there's three islands on the lake and you could take the boats to them. And we all met on this one island for lunch.   Kit: 29:02 But it sounds like that was a well worth it Hookey Day.   Christine: 29:04It was well worth the hooky day. So no, and everything was fine. We enjoyed our day so I can't comment on Val Grande National Park except to say apparently there's a lot of hiking trails in there. And they suggest you have a guide or a proper map because there are people who have gotten lost and they have never been found there. So that kind of struck the fear of God into us.   Kit: 29:30 So I think to a lot of times when you're hiking in some of these particularly remote areas that it's good to have a guide with you.   Christine: 29:37I think it is too. I mean you learn so much too. Especially somebody local, right?   Kit: 29:41 Yeah. The flora and fauna as well. You might see an animal. You have no idea what it is or a pretty flower and it's just something you take a picture of where they can tell you, oh, that's a little, little whatever it is.   Christine: 29:52Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Kit: 29:54 When people ask you, "Oh, how was your trip?" What's the story that comes to mind?   Christine: 29:57Well, I did something on the trip that was accommodated for me and for the lady from San Diego. We were able to do it. It's not so much funny, but it was fun. We were able to do it, I think, because we had a small group and we went paragliding.   Kit: 30:17That sounds fun.   Christine: 30:19Yes. So, and that was in Alagna. So two of us went paraglidingone morning. When we went with a pilot -and we went separately- and we had to take a gondola up to the site is about at 8,800 feet. And we were up for about 20 minutes and then you could come in. And we landed over in Alagna and I remember the pilot saying to me, "Do you want to touch the steeple of the churches as we go by?" I said that I'd pass on that one.   Kit: 30:47Oh brother, I don't know if I'd have the nerve to do that!   Christine: 30:52So that's wasn't in the plans. And and I don't think if they had a big group that they could do that, but they accommodated, us. And we were able to do it because we could do it early in the morning and the weather was right, the window was right, that type of thing.   Christine: 31:07So the other things we did that was a lot of fun is we went down, it's called LP Land and it's on Mottarone Mountain and it's up at the top. You start at about 1,490 meters and it's a go cart, and you go down the mountain in a go kart by yourself (or with somebody else) and it zigzags down and you can reach some pretty high speeds. That was, you know, you get a beautiful view of the lake, although you're trying to not scream as you're going down, so not die and hope hang onto your water bottle or if you know. But um, that was fun.   Kit: 31:47 Any funny story come to mind?   Christine: 31:49Oh, okay. I do have a funny one. Actually. We were on Lake Orto. We were out for evening dinner. One night we were at arestaurant right on the lake. Beautiful meal as usual, and w see this boat going by. And there's three naked men in it, and they're raising their glasses of wine to all the patrons of the restaurant. So everybody's kind of stunned and we thought, well, we'll wait for them to come back. We'll have our cameras ready. But they never came back. But we all had a good laugh over that one. That was. Yeah, that was funny. That was funny.   Kit: 32:21 And Europeans have a different mentality about nudity than North Americans.   Christine: 32:25You know what? And that's the other thing too, is I really like. You're absolutely right. I saw a lot of ladies who would be in their fifties, sixties, seventies, and they were wearing bikinis. And I thought, "Good for you!" In fact, I almost thought about buying one for myself, but Jo our one guide, she said that their attitudes over here are so different. And yeah, I thought: it is what it is, and they were out there in their bikinis.   Kit: 32:54I'm surprised they had tops on, but maybe that's just the south of France.   Christine: 32:58I saw all with tops if they were standing up or sitting up. But their men folk were attentive to them. They were draped in gold jewelry and all that.   Kit: 33:08That's so interesting. Yeah. And France, most of the women didn't have tops and it didn't make a difference what shape your body was in skimpy bathing suits.   Christine: 33:17I know, I know. And we have a lot to learn in North America.   Kit: 33:23 Any other things you want to tell us about your Italian lakes adventure?   Christine: 33:27 I want to tell you that we had two guides and I really want to mention our guides, Andrea, who is from Alagna, Italy and Jo.Jo was originally from Wales but lives in Auckland, New Zealand now. Those guys were outstanding. They were knowledgeable. They were patient, they were flexible. Andrea, he was a really good van driver. He navigated all these little narrow roads. Sometimes we go through these little villages where the road was barely wider than the mirrors of vehicle and yeah, he, you know, we always felt safe with him. Jo was funny. We gave her a nickname. We called her '10 minute Jo' and the reason was, if we'd be hiking a particularly challenging day,she'd go, "Well there's a refugio up ahead." "Well, how far is that, Jo?" "Oh, it's about 10 minutes," and then a while later we'd be thinking. Well, it's been 10 minutes. She'd then say, "Oh, it's another 10 minutes." Everything was 10 minutes with her, so we ended up calling her '10 minute Jo'.   Kit: 34:29That reminds me when I was doing a two week section hike of the Appalachian trail with my girlfriends, Gerry and Jane. And I had the elevation map and so I would always know exactly how many more hills we had to climb, but as we're getting tired at the end of the day... Everybody's pooped., ready to find a camp site and all that. I'd be like, "Come on, you can do it. This is the last hill, I promise! This, the last hill!" And we'd get up over that hill, and of course there'd be another hill. I was like, "Oh no,really, THISis the last hill." So I'm not sure what they called me behind my back, but I doubt there were as kind in calling me "10 minute Kit". Sometimes to make it to the end, you've just got to fib.   Christine: 35:03Yeah, I know.   Kit: 35:07 Anything else about your guides or transit?   Christine: 35:09 Well, one of the other little things I have to tell you about is Giuliano, who was the gentleman... He would drive up from Genoa twice with all the kayaks. And the second time he came up he brought us some foccacia from a local bakery. He left at 5:00 AM in the morning from Genoa to get up to the Lakes ,and he had this fresh foccacia. And it was actually still a bit warm when we had it at our break. That was memorable, and it was so good.   Kit: 35:36Oh, how sweet and thoughtful.   Christine: 35:39Yeah. Very thoughtful.   Kit: 35:42 And I forgot to ask you accommodations. Are you in guest houses or are your camping? I know you said you were at one place for three days. Tell us a little bit about where you stayed.   Christine: 35:49We stayed in hotels. The first three nights and we were in Alagna. It was a beautiful old hotel run by a couple from Sweden and I love the wooden shutters because they could open up, you know. And clean, clean rooms. In Stresa, all the rooms were clean and had air conditioning. Yeah, there was nothing too. ..There was absolutely no complaints about the accommodation. It was close to everything. If we wanted to walk somewhere, the one place we stayed at, and I can't think of the name of the town, but they would mostly have balconies or a little doors that open up, although we didn't because it was quite warm. Yeah, it was. The combination was excellent. Excellent.   Kit: 36:30 I'm surprised you had air conditioning. That's great.   Christine: 36:32I know, I know. The one thing, over in Europe, if anybody's ever traveled there, the elevators are very small, so if you know, maybe two people get on with one suitcase each. No more than that. So that's the one adjustment. The other adjustment is a lot of times in Europe they don't use face cloths, so you might, if you, if you are big on using a face cloth, you might want to bring your own face cloth, that type of thing. But other than that it's um, you don't want for anything. I mean, if you need a toothpaste, it's easy to get. If you need wine, it's easy to get. So it's not like you're in a third world country. But little tips like that.   Kit: 37:16 Is there anything you wish you'd known beforehand that you could share with us?   Christine: 37:23No. The only thing I know in the guide -our gear guide- they suggested bringing is a hat and gloves and long underwear. We definitely did not need to pack that. It was too hot. So that took up room and maybe they have a standard gear list they give to everybody, but if I was going in June or July to the Italian Lakes District, definitely don't worry about that. You wouldn't have to worry about that.   Christine: 37:51But I would strongly. I've mentioned earlier, I would strongly suggest poles.   Kit: 37:55Yep. That's a given for me.   Christine: 37:56I know some people don't like them, but I. Yeah, that's a given for me too as well.   Kit: 38:00Yeah. I don't hike without them anymore. I don't care where I'm going and also keeps my rhythm.   Christine: 38:04Oh, it does! Yeah, it does. And it really does. And it gives you a bit of an upper body upper body workout to.   Kit: 38:11 One final thing. You say you travel solo. Usually you will pair up with a group or something like that. I just finished an episode, in fact, I just finished editing it this morning on solo travel. Do you have any thoughts on solo travel?   Christine: 38:23It's how I usually travel. I happened to ask my neighbor. We have traveled once before together and she's a great traveler. We had gone to Point Reyes national seashore in California. We went for a week with a group.   Christine: 38:37I prefer... I like solo traveling because I can, in the evening if I want to go to bed earlier, if I want to read till 1:00 in the morning, I'm not disturbing anybody. You meet some great people traveling solo. I used to be really nervous about traveling solo. Not anymore. There's a lot of women out there that travel solo now. A lot more than one would think. And, and if you find there's other solo travelers, you just kind of end up connecting and looking out for each other. And that's the other thing too, as a group, you spend that much time together. You do become a big family and you do look out for one another.   Kit: 39:16 Two final questions for you. Number one: Somebody says to you, "I'm thinking about going hiking in the Italian lakes." What do you tell them?   Christine: 39:25I say, I'll give you the name of Active Adventures. You will have the best time ever. I promise. I promise you. In fact, I'll go with you.   Kit: 39:34 My last question for you. Where's next?   Christine: 39:38Next year in Switzerland, Italy where you fly into Geneva. So I'm going to do that with Active Adventures. That's my next one. And then in 20,20 I always say I want to go back to the Italian Lakes, but there's so many places to go in this world. I've been to New Zealand but I've never hiked in New Zealand. So I mean there's always that option. There's so many places, so little time, you know, and you want to do those things when you're healthy.   Kit: 40:07And I mean this is not an ad for Active Adventures, but we're both fans. Do you now, when you're picking out which trips are you looking at their website and say where do I go next from there? Or how do you pick your next trip?   Christine: 40:20Well, like I said I had wanted to go to Mont Blanc two years ago and was I had already booked it and I was actually going with my neighbor, the one who went on this one, but I had broken my arm. She went on ahead so it was always in the back of my mind and I was going to go with another company, but I saw through Active Adventures they did Mont Blamc but they also do a kayaking day, which I thought I liked that it kind of changes things up a bit, so that's why I'm going with Active. I've put my deposit down and I'm ready to roll next June.   Kit: 40:51Cool. And so is that how you choose your trips?Is by looking to see where they go now that now that you're a fan or do you follow what I'm saying? How do you choose your next trip? Are you looking at their website to see where they go and choosing from there or do you pull from different areas are or how do you pick your next destination?   Christine: 41:09Oh, so if I was going post 2019, I would see if they have any changes in what places they want or new additions. If there was a particular place I want to go, let's say I wanted to go to Croatia or I wanted to hike in Portugal. I may look online and see about other hiking companies or if it's doable, so I kind of explore. I kind of explore a bit, but to see what others have to say. And like you say, the only reason I found out about Active Adventures was through a friend on Facebook who his Active Adventures kept coming up. So I said, you know, yJo Blow likes Active Adventures. I thought I'm going to have to look into this because I know this guy and he wouldn't just say that. So that's how I got onto it.   Kit: 41:56Well thanks Christine for your time. It's been great and we sure loved learning about the Italian Lakes with you. We'll have to have you back on when you do your next adventure.   Christine: 42:03Alright, for sure.   Kit: 42:05 I love how adventure travel doesn't always mean that you're getting in the mud and all that kind of stuff. Sometimes you can even go to luxurious locations like the Italian Lakes District and live the good life.   Kit: 42:15Regular listeners will know that I don't accept any advertising at all for this program so that I can keep it commercial free. However, I do have affiliate partnershipswith companies that I have selected that I truly believe in, that I recommend to you and with these affiliates at absolutely zero cost to you. Sometimes I'll either get a discount or I might make a commission or sometimes I'll get some bonus travel and such like that. And I want to mention that Active Adventures, even though their name sounds very similar to Active Travel Adventures, we are two totally separate companies, but Active Adventures is one that I highly recommend because my friends and I are true believers that It's just a great company.   Kit: 42:51The people just really spend their time trying to give you a trip of a lifetime, so if like Christine, you want to explore the Italian Lakes District with a guided tour company, I would recommend Active and if you do so, please be sure to let them know that I sent you either by using any of my links or just by letting them know when you book. Using any of my links is a great FREE way for you to show your support of this program.   Kit: 43:13 To get the FREE Travel Planners, be sure to sign up for the newsletter. You can do so by going to the ActiveTreavelAdventures.com website and then clicking on the newsletter tab, or you can just write me a Kit [@t] active travel adventures.com and ask me to put you on. I'll be happy to.   Kit: 43:29 A special shout out to Pat.Pat did just that, and then it wasn't long before we were on the phone chatting. And before you knew it, we're going to be roommates on a great trip to Egypt this fall. I can't wait!   Kit: 43:37 Reach out to me.I'd love to hear from you and I'd like to make this a two way conversation. Until next time, I'll be back in two weeks with another great adventure. This time we're going to go a little bit further north. We're heading up to Norway, which I can't wait to share that with you. Until then. This is Kit Parks, Adventure On.   *According to the Huffington Post      

Hello and welcome to Debbie's Daily Tips and our series on ramping up for the new year ahead. So as you're thinking about your goal for next year, I would assume that you're hoping to make more money, right? And to make more money than just enough to get by, to just to pay our bills, which we all need to do - but wouldn't it be nice to have some leftover profit? I'm assuming that as you're setting your goals, you're planning to have some leftover profit. So as you're looking at that number, after expenses, after overhead, after taxes, what will you have left to put away in the bank or to put in your pocket? Then I'd like to ask you to do what we call, “spend it on paper.” In other words, sit down and think about what would be your use for every penny of that money. Now, it might be setting up a six month reserve account. It might be investing in a new property. It might be paying off debts. It might be taking a vacation. It might be a little bit of all of the above. The reason I encourage you to spend it on paper is that it actually creates a real need for it. Then be sure to look at it every day. Share with those in your life who support you so that they'll hold you accountable, because it's a natural human tendency to get a little bit complacent. Because as you move forward towards your goals, when the basic needs are met, it's kind of easy to take your eye off the ball or to take your foot off the gas. And yet, when you go back to this exercise and see all those terrific things that money is going to help you accomplish, I hope it inspires you to push a little harder to get out of that comfort zone and to take some new action. So set your goal, subtract your overhead, subtract your taxes, and then you take that leftover profit and you spend it on paper.

In order to compete with Amazon and Walmart, Steve and Harry have to be well stocked, and they are! Anything you want, they have...and we mean anything. Square balloons, nails as big as a tree, a rocket to send your kid to the moon when he's not behaving...and a doohicky, a doodad, a thingamajig, and dingusmadoodle. Steve sings an old song from the 20's with a modern update on the lyrics, "Then I'd be Satisfied with Life."

Joe Knows FishTaking The Intimidation Out Of Cooking SeafoodBy Joe GurreraOwner of Citarella Fine Foods Intro: Welcome to the Cookery by the Book Podcast, with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City, sitting at her dining room table, talking to cookbook authors.Joe Gurrera: Hello, my name is Joe Gurrera, and I'm here today to talk about my new cookbook, which I wanted the title to be Taking the Intimidation Out of Cooking Seafood, but I was outvoted by my project manager, my writer, my publisher, my wife, my assistant. They said, "The name's too long," even though that's the premise of the book, so they came up with the name Joe Knows Fish.Suzy Chase: You're the owner of Citarella markets, New York's most respected seafood authority. First off, the burning question, well two burning questions. Why did you write this cookbook, and why are people afraid to cook fish?Joe Gurrera: Being in the business for 40 years, that's all I've heard. That's a lot of what I've heard from my family, my friends, and my customers. How do I do this? How do I do that? How do I do this? How do I do that? That was the purpose, my incentive to write the book. I've been wanting to write this book for about 15, 20 years, but I was too busy building a business. Now I hired different people, and I've been able to take the time to write the book, so that's what I've done. That answers your first question. The second question was why. The reason why, in my opinion, is because it's delicate. Handling a piece of fish requires finesse. I'm going to make you laugh, but even when I used to hire seafood guys, I would look to see how they picked up the piece of fish because you had some guys, they would pick it up like a bricklayer. You can't do that. You could pick up a steak like a bricklayer or you could pick up a chicken like that, but you need soft hands because of the delicateness of it. I know it sounds funny, but it's really true. Because of that, people even years ago when they're cooking, when you cook a steak, you cook your chicken, it's going to take you 20 minutes, whatever you're going to do. When you're cooking a piece of fish, literally it could take you two minutes on each side. In the cookbook, I joke around. I say, "Don't answer your cell phone because if you do, it's going to be more than two minutes and you're done, and you're not going to achieve what you want to achieve.Suzy Chase: For cookbook lovers outside of New York City, give us a little background on Citarella.Joe Gurrera: I bought this little seafood market that was 12 feet wide in 1983, and it was just a seafood market. I was in my 20s. I was always entrepreneurial, I guess, my aggressive nature. I started expanding right away. My store was a middle store of the building. On the 75th Street corner side, to the north were three other stores, a candy store, a dry cleaners, and a shoe repair. They were all older people, so one by one I took the three of them over. Shortly thereafter that, I was able to purchase the building. On my other side was a clothing store, and the clothing store was paying me rent. I'm going to say six months after I purchased the building, I got a knock on the door. "Yeah?" The IRS. I said, "What did I do now?" They said, "It's not you, it's your tenant. We're locking him up. He hasn't paid taxes." They put a lock on the store, and they closed every bank account the guy had, whatever it was. In 30 days, they gave me the store back even though that guy had a lease. They gave me the store back, so now I said, "What am I going to do?" I started talking to people, and I started thinking, and I went into the meat business. I made a separate store called Citarella Meats. That was in 1991. I didn't want to damage my seafood reputation, which I had established. I was afraid. I didn't want to damage that reputation, so I kept it separate, and I started a meat store. Shortly thereafter, I realized what a mistake it was. Then I took the wall down, and that's when Citarella became the full grown Citarella as you know today.Suzy Chase: Describe growing up as an immigrant fisherman's son.Joe Gurrera: When he came to this country, I believe it was 1948, I think he went to Boston, then California, then back to New York. He was working for a mattress company, working for different things. At that time in New York, from where he's from in Sicily, which is a town called Sciacca, S-C-I-A-C-C-A, there was maybe a dozen people from Sciacca that had fish stores in the five boroughs. That's how he got into the seafood business. He opened a one-man seafood shop. I think he went to work for somebody first, and then he opened his own once he learned the business.Suzy Chase: Take us back to the days when the Fulton Fish Market was downtown underneath the Brooklyn Bridge.Joe Gurrera: There was a lot of warmth. There was a lot of character. The conditions were a lot rougher working down there because shortly after I conquered Citarella, I became a partner in a concern in the Fulton Fish Market. Shortly after that, I was working there. I was working two jobs. I'd be getting up at 2:00 in the morning, going to the fish market, working there. When that's done by 10:00, then I could be coming up to Citarella and doing my second job. Working in the fish market, there was a lot of character. There were a lot of characters also. The winters were cold right underneath the Brooklyn Bridge on the river. Even though I loved it and I still miss it, it's a sign of the times. You had to get into health code, a refrigerated building in the cold chain to preserve the seafood, so it was time. That building lasted over 100 years.Suzy Chase: I miss it, too. I miss being over there with the sites and the smells. You could see the fish flying in the air.Joe Gurrera: Listen, it was quite an interesting place, it really was.Suzy Chase: I'm dying to hear your thoughts on sauces.Joe Gurrera: On sauces. First of all, I'm a really simple guy. I eat simple. I like grilled. I'm not a saucy guy. Don't get me wrong, I've gone to those tasting meals, and Jean-Georges is my friend. They're all my friends. I know them all. For me, I just want a plain, simple grilled piece of fish. If you want, I'll put some olive oil on it. That's what I like. Again, that's me.Suzy Chase: Speaking of olive oil, I was surprised to read that you don't cook fish with butter.Joe Gurrera: I never cook fish with butter.Suzy Chase: How come?Joe Gurrera: For me, it's more of a personal preference. I do use butter for other things, but the dairy will overpower the seafood flavor. Even to make a seafood stock out of shrimp shells or whatever it is, it will be camouflaged. I love oysters. I was just in Europe, and I had oysters in Spain, I had oysters in London, and I had sea urchins in Sicily. When I eat them, I want to taste the oyster. Matter of fact, when I was in London, they also had some oysters from Ireland, which were very good also. But I get the oysters on the half shell, and I eat them. I'm ordering oysters, and the guy at the table next to me, he got a dozen oysters, but he's putting his cocktail sauce. He's squeezing his lemon. If I get four Wellfleets, or four Maine oysters, or four Rhode Island oysters, I want to taste the salinity. I want to taste the plumpness. I want to taste everything. The guy that put the cocktail sauce, or the lemon, or the vinegar, the mignonette sauce on it, he's not going to be able to tell the difference. That's not what I do. It camouflages. You've defeated the purpose of ordering three different types of oysters, because you want to taste the difference. Once you put the cocktail sauce on it, you're not going to know the difference of anything.Suzy Chase: This cookbook is dedicated to your wife and the memory of your mentor and friend, Tony Marotta, who taught you the rules of the road. Once you settle for mediocre, they will sell it to you every time. Tell us about Tony.Joe Gurrera: Boy oh boy, okay. Tony was a class act. Tony was the kind of guy who was like Mr. Clean. He had a brand new white jacket every day with a white cap. He was Mr. Perfection. His fish store happened to be in Brooklyn. We met because we parked our trucks next to each other, so we started to become friendly. I was in Manhattan, and he was in Brooklyn. In Manhattan, the items that you sell here, you sell a fuller line of products, where in Brooklyn in an Italian neighborhood or in a Jewish neighborhood, you're not going to sell the oysters or you're not going to sell certain items. In Manhattan, you sold everything. Tony gave me a lot of pointers, and then I just applied myself and I just took everything further. He was a great guy.Suzy Chase: What was the best thing he ever taught you?Joe Gurrera: Quality, always the best. Knowing what the best is. The quality, absolutely.Suzy Chase: I like how this cookbook is divided up by styles and not by fish types. For example, you have a chapter dedicated to poaching and steaming and another one for tossing with pasta. Talk a little bit about that.Joe Gurrera: The reason why I have the chapters the way I did, again, it's all related to taking the intimidation out of cooking seafood. The first one is grilling. The grilling is the easiest one, and it'll be most comfortable for people that are intimidated because I'm sure they know how to grill a burger or they know how to grill a steak. Cooking a piece of tuna and swordfish would be very similar. That's why I started with grilling. Then after grilling, I go to baking and roasting. Again, there's not as much work involved. You put the fish on a pan and you put it in the oven. The same thing with the broiling. Then when you go down, the next one is sauteing. Sauteing requires a little movement. You've got to take it, you've got to flip it. It requires a little more work. Similar even to the frying part or even the pasta part whether it's clams, the cuttlefish ink, or the bottarga, it requires a little more movement and putting things together. That's how I wanted to write the book, as more complicated as it goes down.Suzy Chase: Okay. Home cooks have their seafood shop or even the seafood section in our grocery store. What are the top three things we need to look for in terms of picking out fresh fish?Joe Gurrera: First, you have to trust your fishmonger if the place has a good reputation, number one. Everyone says, "What do I look for? Do I look at the eyes? Do I look at this?" Looking for fresh seafood, the best way that I could describe it simply is it has to look like it's in HD.Suzy Chase: Did you see a couple of weeks ago in the news a fish market in Kuwait stuck googly eyes on their less than fresh fish to make it look like they were fresh?Joe Gurrera: Really? I didn't see that.Suzy Chase: You have to look it up. It's hilarious. Anyway, that's-Joe Gurrera: Can you send it to me?Suzy Chase: Yes, I'll send it to you.Joe Gurrera: Joe@citarella.com. Send it to me.Suzy Chase: Okay. It was really funny. Anyway, is it bad that I hate deboning fish?Joe Gurrera: I'll make you laugh. I have a friend who happens to love spaghetti and clam sauce, and I have a favorite place that does it pretty well. I said, "Tom, you want to go?" He doesn't like to get his fingers dirty to take the clam shells out.Suzy Chase: I love him.Joe Gurrera: I looked him, I said, "Tom, I'll do it for you, for Christ's sake." I said, "I'll do it for you." He goes, "Okay," so we went. People are different. To me, I only want that. I want a whole fish. I love a whole fish. That's one of my top five.Suzy Chase: Can I have your guy at Citarella debone it for me?Joe Gurrera: Of course you can. They could debone it. They could filet it. Any good fishmonger will do anything that you want.Suzy Chase: The other night for dinner, I made your recipes for salmon tartare, baked cod, chunky mashed potatoes, and your tomato and red onion salad. This whole meal was quick and so delicious. The cod, I got it at Citarella, naturally. I got everything at Citarella. The cod was flaky and moist, and the salmon was like butter. Fish is such a good family weeknight dinner option, don't you think?Joe Gurrera: Listen, I think not only that, with all its oils and all the health reasons for it.Suzy Chase: Now to my segment called My Last Meal. If you had to place an order for your last supper, what would it be?Joe Gurrera: Probably would be I'd start it off with a little caviar. Then I'd probably have some oysters. Then I'd have a little bit of, whether it's spaghetti and clam sauce or even spaghetti with the bottarga, which I had in Sicily two weeks ago, which was out of control, ridiculous. Then I would have a grilled piece of whole fish. That would be my last meal.Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web, social media, and in New York City?Joe Gurrera: On the web, it is Citarella.com. There is also joeknowsfish.com. We area also on Facebook.Suzy Chase: Where are your locations in New York City?Joe Gurrera: New York City, we are on the Upper West Side on 75th and Broadway, on the Upper East Side on 75th and 3rd, and we are in Greenwich Village on 6th Avenue and 9th Street. We have three stores in The Hamptons, one in Bridgehampton, one in East Hampton, and one in Southampton. I have a Citarella in Greenwich, Connecticut.Suzy Chase: Oh, I didn't even know that.Joe Gurrera: Now we are opening in Hudson Yards.Suzy Chase: Oh, really? That's exciting.Joe Gurrera: It is.Suzy Chase: That's the hotspot. Joe Gurrera: It's going to be some project, I'll tell you that right now.Suzy Chase: Thanks, Joe, for coming on Cookery by the Book Podcast.Joe Gurrera: Thank you very much for having me.Suzy Chase: Follow me on Instagram at cookerybythebook, Twitter is ImSuzyChase, and download your Kitchen Mixtapes, music to cook by on Spotify at CookerbytheBook. As always, subscribe in Apple Podcasts.

LINKS "The Great Convergence Is Upon Us" by Blair Enns "CRM: The Train Coming At You" by Blair Enns AltGroup.net website "Eight Gauges on Your Agency Dashboard" by David C. Baker The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success by William Thorndike "Rising From the Ashes: A New Agency Model" by Blair Enns   TRANSCRIPTION DAVID C. BAKER: Blair today we're going to start over. Both you and I are going to start over. We're going to pretend to start over anyway, and the topic is If I Were Starting a Firm Now. In other words this is a firm that you and I work with, and the folks who listen to this podcast generally. If I were starting a firm like that now, what would I do differently? We're going way back in time because I ran a firm ... you worked at multiple firms, and I started and ran a firm for six years. My goodness, I would do so many things differently. If we talked about this 10 years ago, the answers would be different. If we talked about it 10 years from now, the answers would be different. But at this moment in time, what would we do differently if we were going to start a firm now? Are you up for that topic? BLAIR ENNS: I am up for it, and as you've pointed out I have never owned a firm before. I've run a small office, I've been the number two in a larger office, but I've never owned a firm. So I'll try it one, let's do this. DAVID: Okay. We're going to ping pong with some questions here, and I'm going to start by asking for your opinion on something that's really the big umbrella here. The reason I want to ask you is because you recently wrote a lot about this, and it was a provocative article the things that you talked about. I haven't talked with you to see what kind of feedback you got about it, but here is the question; what category of firm would you start? Would it be a digital firm? Or a dev shop? Or a UX shop? Or a PR firm? How would you start a firm from a category standpoint if you were starting over? BLAIR: I think the piece you're referring to is something I wrote called "The Great Convergence Is Upon Us." The convergence I was talking about is the convergence of design, which is often UX design, software engineering, and business consulting. I'm seeing most of the best lucrative, most thriving, most impactful firms that we're working with these days are in that space. I think it's really hard to think of starting a new firm today that doesn't combine those three skills, so I absolutely would combine those three skills because I think that's where the big opportunity is in the market place but that doesn't really narrow things a lot. If I look at what I know the world of selling, and also some of the world of marketing ... what I've been interested in for a bunch of years is this intersection of sales and marketing. I wrote something on this ... oh man, it's probably approaching 10 years ago now. I think it was called "CRM: The Train That's Coming At You." BLAIR: CRM as a customer relationship management software was becoming more prevalent and powerful, it's driven by the internet changing the way people buy, and the way we sell, and the way we use marketing automation. The biggest way sales and marketing has changed in the era of Google is that lead generation has moved from a sales function to a marketing function. When that happens, that changes the nature of what selling is, and it changes the nature a little bit of what marketing is. One of the implications is actually sales and marketing in your client's organizations are getting closer and closer together, and they're overlapping. That article I wrote about CRM was that the CRM application is actually the place in your client's organization ... and I know it's not an application, isn't really a place. But it's the place where sales and marketing are overlapping. BLAIR: Even pre-CRM days when I was working in the agency business, I as somebody who comes from the world of sales, I always felt like in a new business opportunity, if I could get the chief sales officers in the room as a decision maker, and I could convert him or her, if I could win him or her, I would win the account. There's just something about ... this is a long rambling answer, but there's something about where sales and marketing overlap, and the technology that's required, and the way those two different departments work together. I would focus on that space. So where sales and marketing overlap in my client's business, it would be tech heavy. A lot of that tech would be CRM. I would have this converge firm that had high level of business consulting, had technology chops like software engineering, and had really good design UX skills. I would go after sales driven organizations, and I guess the classic label would be a B2B firm. I would specialize in B2B because in a lot of B2B organizations you have this kind of handshake, or overlap in sales and marketing. Did that make sense at all? DAVID: It did. I kept thinking of things I wanted to interject, but I decided just to let you talk because it did make perfect sense. It overlaps with something that we've also seen in this industry for many years, the CMO, the person that we typically would get hired by ... you know these agencies we get hired by the CMO, was losing power for so many years and that's been reversed. About two years ago it was reversed, and really dramatically. The reason it was reversed is because the CMO took over more of the technology spend at large companies, which really dovetails with what you are talking about. The other thing that hit me too as you were talking is that so many of my clients do not understand that world, they don't even use a CRM themselves. It's not as if they need a CRM because they don't have that many clients or prospects to keep track of, but they aren't even using it enough to understand it and to speak that language. DAVID: It feels like the world around these firms that you and I talk to a lot, has changed and these firms haven't really kept up that we need some ... it'd be interesting to talk at some point about maybe the professional education, professional advancement, how do these firms learn and catch up in that space? BLAIR: Yeah. I think if your firm is positioned in any way as B2B, you have to be in the CRM space in some way because you can't be a good B2B firm without having CRM chops. You're going to be operating within your client's CRM application, everything that you do campaign-wise is going to push through that application, and there all kinds of opportunities within that space. As you've pointed out, most firms like the B2C firms if CPG is your focus, you don't need to worry about CRM. But if you're at all into B2B space you need to be using a big robust CRM package, probably sales force just because you're going to need to be able to provide that expertise at some level. You can go as deep into it as you want, but you're going to need to be able to provide that expertise at some level to your clients. DAVID: Yes absolutely. And also sales force is so easy to use, and the interface is so wonderful ... I'm just kidding in case anybody didn't capture that. BLAIR: Let me just put a shout out to ... I've been using HubSpot CRM for a project I'm involved in lately, and I've checked it out every 18 months or so, and it's always been, "Yeah, it's coming along nicely." And we're not into plugging things here, but I was so impressed with the user interface and how easy it is to use. Then I'd go back to my Salesforce instance and I think, "I like the robustness of sales force, but even the new lightning interface is not as good as HubSpot CRM." Okay that's enough plugging things. Let me ask you a question, if you were starting a firm today, size ... is there a target size you would shoot for? Is bigger better? Or would you limit the firm to a certain size? DAVID: I started as one person, just myself. The second person, we didn't have an office at the time, and he was really tall, and he kept ... whenever he stretched ... we worked in our bedroom, and we moved out of our bedroom and that's where we moved the office. Whenever he stretched he'd get his arms caught in the ceiling fan, it just brings back memories. Then we moved into an office, and eventually grew to be 16 people so still really small. I did not understand at the time the implications of size, I thought that having more people meant making more money and that's a pretty tenuous connection there. The way I would answer this question is very different now than it was then for sure too. If you want to be vertically positioned, and hold an AOR place in the client's mind, you can't reliably do that below about 40 people except for really small clients.  DAVID: If I wanted that sort of a relationship I would aim to get bigger, but I also feel like now there is much less stigma around being smaller and if you are not as caught up in doing implementation, and if you're positioning is really really powerful, and it's almost all around strategy, then I probably would aim to be about six people, or I would be over 40 people. I would try not to be in that middle size, that's how I would answer that question. BLAIR: Okay. DAVID: Does that surprise you? BLAIR: The six surprises me. We've had conversations about what's the ideal size of a firm before, and I know that our friends that design business association in the UK has done a little bit of work on this ... and this data is a little bit old, but I remember being told that their research showed that the most profitable firm per capita was 11 people. DAVID: Yep. BLAIR: That fits nicely with your functional model where you say essentially there are 12 roles in the firm, and then once you get past the 12 roles now you're into middle management, right? DAVID: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And you can have very pure roles where nobody has to wear more than one hat at about 22, 23, 24 people, something like that. My own research shows that there is a deepened profitability from about 10-15 and then above that there is another corresponding increase in profitability per employee. But there's so many exceptions to that, it's really hard to say that you would necessarily avoid a particular size. But I think I would be intentionally small, six or so. Or I would be intentionally large if I were starting over. That's just me answering the question, right? BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: And none of these are like, "This is what you should do." This is just what I would do, that's how we're answering these questions. If you were going to start a firm would you want to have done anything else first? For example, would you want to have worked on the client side first? Or would it be important for you to have worked at another agency first? Or maybe a consulting practice? I want to just get a feel for whether it would make sense if you had a real objective view of things, and you're out of grad school say, and you're faced with these options; to work for a consulting firm, a client, or another agency. Which one of those would you do before you started your firm? BLAIR: This is a real tricky one because you have to try it on for what's best for you. If I remove the question for me, if I think okay I would be ... in that converge model, I would be the consultant, but I don't have the pedigree to bid for boutique consulting firm experience, I have faith in my ability but I don't have that background so I would say somebody like me if I were thinking of a career path which ... if we could hindsight being 2020, and I was pursuing this model, I would do the MBA, and then go work in a consulting company, and then ... I think that would be the most valuable experience, would be consulting company experience. Not necessarily agency or creative firm experience, and I don't think client side experience is actually necessary. In fact a lot of people would disagree with this, but I think we in the creative profession spend too much time listening to client say what they want. I'm not saying we should ignore that completely, but if somebody is on a stage saying, "Here is what I want from you people." BLAIR: I just don't trust that that's actionable advice, to listen to what somebody says they want generally from agency partners, and then build your business around that. That's probably another podcast. But no, I think of those three options whether I had agency experience, client side experience, or consulting experience. For somebody like me, I would see myself as the head of the firm, and I think the head of the firm in this new converge model, you're probably best off with somebody coming from the consulting background. DAVID: That is exactly how I would have answered the question as well because for the same reason you gave about the client side, and because I want to build on my own after I leave the consulting firm as an employee. I want to build a consulting practice working in the areas that you mentioned in the first answer that you gave. I have noticed though that a lot of principals struggle when they have never worked for another good firm before, and the way they get around that is they hire people who have so that they can learn from them. But if the end look of your firm is more of a consulting firm than say a marketing or a design firm, then working for those would be great. I was just thinking to myself as you were answering that, there is no college degree for consulting. That's really odd, isn't it? There's so many things that people are doing, and there's no degree for it. BLAIR: Well isn't that the MBA? Isn't that one of the paths coming out of the marketing focused MBA? Or even a financed focus MBA, is to go on the consulting side? DAVID: Yeah. I mean you learn about business, but you don't learn how to do the craft. They don't teach you that in school, that's pretty interesting. BLAIR: I agree. We're talking about if I were starting over, or if I were starting a firm today, and I'll put the question to you. What you asked about prior experience, I'll ask you about preparation before the launch. Would you raise money? How would you go about getting your first clients? And how would you generate leads if you're starting from the beginning? DAVID: This assumes that I'm doing something else while I'm ramping up, and I'm ramping up probably in the evenings, or on the weekends, or something like that. I would have at least two to three months worth of my living expenses saved up, that would be the most important thing for me if I were starting over. The reason is because I think ... at least for me, that the father of compromise is really financial pressure, and so I would not want to face that pressure so I would have that saved up. The other thing is that whatever I was going to be doing ... well, obviously my positioning would be very nailed down, but whatever I was going to do for lead generation I would have that up and ready to go where all I had to do was flip a switch rather than starting to do that at the beginning. I wouldn't be sitting there with nothing to do, and smiling and dialing looking for work, I would have all of that ramped up partly because I want to be prepared, but partly because I want to test my own resolve. DAVID: How committed am I to this new venture? Am I committed enough to it to do all this disciplined work around lead generation for myself? And am I committed enough to it to put money aside. Because if I fail ... and there is a chance that I will in this new venture, I don't want to lose any more than what I've saved up. I can then say, "That was a good college try, and I lost everything I saved up, but no further damage was done." That would be my perspective on it. BLAIR: Would you consider outside sources of money? DAVID: Only if it was free, in other words somebody thought I'd... BLAIR: So no? The answer is no? DAVID: Not in the real world. The answer is no, that's right. I would definitely not borrow money, and any money I got would have strings attached to it, so I would absolutely not do that. BLAIR: But do you think that's the right universal advice? Or does that speak to your risk profile? Because as you were describing essentially hedging your bet and starting the firm, I was thinking, "Yeah okay, I could see that." But I would probably go the other way, I would probably burn the ships and go all in, and force myself to succeed. I don't know that that's the right way, and I don't know that I would give advice to others to do that. But I feel like that's the way I like to operate, push all the chips in. DAVID: Well, I may take bigger risks than most people on the planet. On the other hand I couple that with a very different perspective about debt, in that I think debt is a very bad instrument for anything except for appreciating assets like a home, or a building, or something like that. Because debt enables you to cover up things that need to be looked at in different ways, it keeps you from having to make the tough decisions, and it forces you to clean up the past if things go bad. I never want to do anything but clean up the future. I'm a huge risk taker, and I take a lot of risks with money. I spend a lot of money, but it's money that I have saved up that I feel comfortable wasting if I need to. BLAIR: How many tractors do you own? DAVID: Let's not go there.   BLAIR: What's next on your list here? DAVID: All right, next this one's for you. This is about web presence. You've given me some hints that your thinking has changed in this area that's why I thought it would be interesting to ask you this question. So you're building a new website for this new venture, how extensive would the website be? Would it be one page? Or 100 pages? How much content? Would that content be gated or not? Would you talk about your service packages? Would you say anything about pricing even in ranges? would you use marketing automation? Just what would the role of your website be in this new venture? BLAIR: I've hinted at this, and I've actually put out there on social media that I'm going to publish some content on this. It's a little bit late, and there's a reason why it's late and I'm not going to day what it is but it's coming. There's been a shift in content marketing, and lots of people have seen it, but some people are oblivious to it. I don't want to give too much away here. DAVID: Oh come on you woos, just say it. BLAIR: Yeah yeah. I do want to say that I still ... I think we've talked about this before, but I think the best marketing agency website out there is altgroup.net and that's the Alt Design Group out of New Zealand where it says ... I mean it's been this way for 10 years, this page intentionally left blank and then an address in the bottom left hand corner. I look at that website and I think that is brilliant, and it's built on the idea that the most powerful thing in marketing is mystery. So I would build some mystery around my marketing. I might publish a book initially, I might put something out there in the world but what I wouldn't do is the way that I started to build the lead generating machine, or the marketing machine for Win Without Pitching back in the early days and we still do it today even though we also do other things like this podcast. I wouldn't focus on building a list, and I wouldn't focus on emailing people, I wouldn't focus on content marketing. BLAIR: There's a shift in the way that people are consuming information, which has implications on our heretofore need to collect all the data on who is interested in us. The shift is more towards audio and primarily video, that's the big shift that's coming. If your target market is of a certain age, the video is coming a little but later. If they're younger, video is more prominent now. As you move to publishing content, instead of thinking of content as typed words, and read words, you think of it as what we're doing here in the podcast, or what you might do in a YouTube channel. If you're pushing content that way, now you actually have to force yourself to let go of all of that data you're used to having of who is interacting? And how or when are they interacting? There's a lot more trust that has to happen, there's a lot more letting go of the data and using these platforms. Other than the people who have reached out to us and said, "Hey, love your podcast." Or, "Hate your podcast, but I listen to it." Whatever. We don't have any data on who's listening to this, right? DAVID: Right. BLAIR: But on who those people are, we get numbers so that's part of the shift. Content consumption is rapidly moving away from reading to watching and listening, and the platforms of watching and listening are increasingly not your platforms. You push it out there on these other platforms, so you have to be comfortable with not having the data. Probably if I were staring today, I would let go of email marketing altogether. Now I say that knowing that maybe there's a 40% chance if I did that I might change my mind really quickly. DAVID: Just kidding right? BLAIR: I have a hard time seeing it going away, email marketing continues to get less effective, interruption marketing. I think you need to put a great valuable content that people are drawn to, and again let go. Then we've got privacy regulations that are catching up with our own personal discomfort around how much data people have on us, so I think if I was starting out today I wouldn't over-invest in the website in any way. I would build mystique mystery, and I would push content out there other than via email, and I would let go of the need to collect all of the data around who is interacting with my content. But I might fail because of it. DAVID: Well, that's okay 'cause you're not pressured to test that idea for sure. Thinking about this podcast for instance, you and I exchanged an email about this of all the things you do and all the things I do, and then we do this together, this takes the least amount of time, it costs the least amount of money, and it is the most effective, and yet we have no idea who's listening. BLAIR: Yeah. It's been a big shift for us. I mean you and I are both readers and writers, right? DAVID: Right. BLAIR: So for ... along with time, and our clients who are our age, or older, even just a little bit younger, they probably still think of content as reading and writing. I'm not going to drop them here, but some of the prediction, some of the stats on the percentage of content that will be consumed in just a couple of years that will be video is far beyond the majority. It's way above 50% of all content consumed will be video, some numbers put it as high as 80% of all content. DAVID: But nobody will be listening to this podcast if you and I hadn't been doing email marketing for 20 years either. BLAIR: Yeah, there's that. Let me ask you about client base. So you're starting a new firm, you're not borrowing any money, and you're thinking you've got this vision of the firm that you're trying to build a certain size. Let's talk about the size of your clients, how many would you have? What would the nature of those relationships be? Would it be AOR longterm relationships? Would it be more project based? And what types of clients? That's a lot of questions. DAVID: That's all right, I'll try to answer these. I would have fewer but larger clients. By larger I mean larger as a percentage of my practice in this field. I would not go after the largest clients though, I think they have so much power, and they push you around and don't need you as much. Nor would I go after the smallest clients that are not as sophisticated, and for which the money they're spending hurts them a little bit more. I would aim solidly at the middle-sized clients, and then I would ensure that each client I got was a fairly large part of my business. So I would probably aim for six or eight clients, something like that. I would aim to have more of a SWAT team approach, where I dropped in and did really amazing work for them that moved a needle and helped change their thinking, and maybe that engagement lasted six months, or two years, or something like that.  DAVID: Then I would not feel any compulsion to do the implementation, in fact I would encourage them to do some of the implementation or I would introduce them to other people without fear that somehow they wouldn't call me back at some point. That would be my thinking in terms of how I would approach this. It's a little bit terrifying because I know a lot of our listeners are not interesting in putting that many eggs in one basket, they really want to spread out their client base and typically they're going to end up with 25 clients which is too much, right? Anyway, that's how I would answer that. BLAIR: I would agree with almost all of that too, I like the small size of the client base. I was thinking 8-10, you said 6-8 short-term projects six months to three years. I wouldn't pursue some sort of longterm relationship like that too. Let's we how we can do here, what's next on the list? DAVID: Okay. How would I earn money, or how would you earn money in this case? Would it be fee for service? Would it be guaranteed results? Variable pay for performance? List solutions? We talked a lot about this in some of the events that we've done, and you've had some time to think about this. How would you structure your arrangements with clients? BLAIR: I love this question, and people who think I would say value based pricing, pricing a value, the real answer is ... and this is a proper answer for anybody who's running a consultative services, I wouldn't have a universal pricing model. I would reserve the right to price the client, not the job and every different client I would price differently. I think Ron Baker, and it might be Tim Williams, and the two of them work closely together on pricing stuff. I've heard one or maybe both of them say that you should think of your client base like your investment portfolio. You have this overall risk profile, and each client represents, in this case an investment. So you would have some high risk investments, or you would have some high risk compensation plans. High risk high reward, and you would have low risk low reward. You would have this range of risk levels in each of the engagements, but together they need to balance out to meet your overall risk profile. BLAIR: I actually think it's a mistake to have a single pricing model where everything is performance pay, or everything is price certainty, we deliver price certainty based on deliverables, or everything is priced on inputs, etcetera. I think you really do need to look at each engagement separately, and the context around the engagement, what's your current financial situation? And decide in that situation how much risk you want to take on. So the short answer is it really needs to be a blend, and it's one engagement at a time. You figure out what the best pricing model is for that engagement. DAVID: That surprises me, I thought you were going to say that they all looked pretty similar, you thought through it very carefully, and then you stuck with the same thing. That's a surprising answer for me. BLAIR: I think we got a couple more questions we can get in here. What are the ratios? You're the ratio guy, if you're flying this new firm like it's a plane, you're looking at your dashboard, what's on the dashboard? DAVID: The most popular article I've ever written on the site is "Eight Gauges on Your Agency Dashboard," but I can narrow that down to three and it would be these; don't pay more than 45% of your fee base to unburden comp ... and if folks are wondering what that means, they can go to the website and read it. But it's essentially without taxes, or benefits, and so on, or bonuses. That's the first one. Second, have three to four months worth of your overhead set aside in cash, not receivables, not line of credit so that you have that cushion to work from if things go south temporarily. The third would be watch the fee billings per full-time equivalent employee, and we've talked about this in a previous podcast. I would aim to always be above 200, and overtime me quite a bit higher than that, that's what I'd be aiming for. BLAIR: Good numbers. DAVID: Okay. The question for you next is how would you focus on creating future value? 'Cause you talk a lot about how that is the primary role of a principal of a firm, recognizing that, an if you believe it then how do you find the time? How do you do the research? Who do you hang around? What to read? This might even be an entire podcast episode at some point, but- BLAIR: Yeah, let's do a podcast on that. I'll give you the short answer, two things. Number one, a strong number two. So strong COO. There's a great book called The Outsiders, and I think it's William Thorndike. It's Warren Buffet's favorite book where he profiles all of these different leaders who have publicly traded companies, who are the most successful in the history of the New York stock exchange. He asses what they have in common, and one of the things they have in common is they ave a really strong operations people to whom they delegate a lot of operational responsibilities. That's number one. Number two is I would travel, that's what I do in my business. I have a strong number two, she's my business partner and my spouse. I've been home for two months over the summer, I'm just itching to get on a plane. I provide the most value to our business when I'm not in the office. I get out there speaking, meeting people, working with some clients, building relationships. Those two things, strong number two, and travel. DAVID: Great. BLAIR: Let me ask you about employees. Employees don't stick around like they used to, how do you think about your employee base in this new firm in this new ... it's not just millennials anymore, but there's a new work environment where people have different ideas of what work should be, how it should be done, and what they should get out of it, or how it should serve them. DAVID: And I would shut the hell up, and quit whining about this. That's the first thing I would do. BLAIR: Amen. We should appreciate that these people are teaching us something. DAVID: Yeah, it's fantastic. At first, I was thinking we've got to fix the culture so that they'll stay around, well that is not going to happen folks because people's career ladder involves inevitably moving to another place. That is how they make more money, that's how they stay interested, and so on. I would develop a model of employees that was excited about this, in other words I would beef up my training so that it wasn't as big a problem. I would force some sort of people going away. Maybe sabbatical is too long a word, but at least a couple of weeks where everybody's email and their contact with the office was completely shut off so that it forced us to have better systems in place. I would have ways for them to capture their first impressions at the firm, I would celebrate their departures, I would encourage them to come back at some point because when they come back their dabble is beneficial to the firm when that happens. I'm writing an article on this. Essentially I would embrace it and be very excited about it. BLAIR: Those are all very exciting progressive ideas. One of my other recent article is "Rising From the Ashes: A New Agency Model" where I talk about the importance of flexible two-way scale. The idea that you need to be able to flex up and down, and you need to recognize the trends that are driving today's modern workforce, and you need to essentially build your agency around that. Hey, let's do two more questions. You're starting a new firm, would you go into this with and end date in mind? Would you have an expiry date? Would you have this idea, "I'm going to get out at X point."? DAVID: I would, yes. It probably be somewhere in the 8-10 year range because I'd hit my stride about a year and a half, or two in. Then I would be maximizing revenue opportunities and taking advantage of all the marketing that I've done, and then I would move on and do something else. So 8-10 years is probably what I would plan on. What about you? BLAIR: You know what? When I started Win Without Pitching originally it was a consulting company, I thought, "I'm going to do this for two or three years. Learn everything I need to learn, basically nail this and then go do something else." It's been over 16 years, and I feel like I'm just scratching the surface, so I would not put an expiry date on it. I would do this until I died, and that's my plan with my current business. I've written about that too about not having an eye on the exit, but I'm not sure that that's ... no, actually I think that's actually universally pretty good advice. DAVID: So would you start a firm? BLAIR: You know I've said for a long time that I wouldn't start a firm, but I used to think of creative firms as an ad agency, a design firm, etcetera. I wouldn't start an ad agency, I wouldn't start a CPG design firm, I wouldn't start a web design firm, I wouldn't start any of those classic marketing or creative firms. But all of these new hybrid firms with a new working models, they excite me greatly. I think I wrote in an article recently that I wouldn't start a firm, what I said is I'd start a really small one and lean on flexible scale. So would I start a firm if I can go back in time and think, "Yeah, I had a little bit of the right experience in the business in the beginning."? Yeah, I think I would. I might change my answer tomorrow, but I wake up this morning and I look around at what's going on in the spaces that we serve, and I think, "There's a lot of really exciting stuff." And then there are people who are stuck, who just haven't seen the trends, who are struggling in their business. BLAIR: It's not those people I'm thinking about. The ones who are really seeing the trends, the ones who are doing things different, these hybrid firms I think they're super exciting. So my answer today is yes I would. How about you? DAVID: I would. But the last half an hour discussion has gotten me more excited about the idea than I would have been at the beginning of this. So yes I would. If for no other reason, then I just want to bury your firm because if we're both starting firms, you are going down okay? 'Cause every piece of advice I've given is bad advice hoping that you'll follow it. BLAIR: You're on. Let's go. Lets' go brother, it's a throwdown, my firm will crush your firm. You heard it here first people. DAVID: This has been a fun discussion, thank you Blair. BLAIR: Yeah, I got to go register a domain name, I'll talk to you later.

Kat: Okay. Oh. How do I do this? Wait for it. Patrick: Got to do it. Kat: Are you going [crosstalk 00:00:42] through the snow? Patrick: Yeah I'm going through the snow. I got it at like 60 degrees in here right now. It's 60 degrees in my house, I have no idea why. Kat: Is that cold? Patrick: To me it is, yes. Kat: Does that mean cold, I don't understand your language. Patrick: To me it is very cold. To me its subzero temperature, I'm absolutely freezing right now. I'm about to die of a cold or flu. Kat: Your dying? Patrick: Yup. I have not gone [crosstalk 00:01:11] Kat: It's a sad state. I'm going to ... Patrick: Hold on let me [crosstalk 00:01:18] Kat: I'm finding out what temperature that is. I'm Googling it so everybody understands what's happening. Patrick: Oh yeah, it doesn't translate. Doesn't translate in your language. Kat: Oh, it's 15 degrees. Hang on I've got to shut the door, there's window men right outside my door and it's super noisy. One second. Patrick: 15 degrees. Holy shit, what the fuck happened to my computer. So what's up everybody, hello, hello, welcome everybody. I'll go ahead and say that. Hello? Kat: What's up? Patrick: [inaudible 00:01:47] everybody's already said something. I don't know, my computer just took a shit. I've no idea. So did you say 15 degrees, your words? This is retarded. Hold on. I can't hear you. Kat: [inaudible 00:02:04] must be dying. Patrick: I can't, what the [crosstalk 00:02:06] Kat: Am I back? Am I back? Patrick: Yeah you're back. Oh, I forgot we're on my internet connection. Kat: Yeah I had ... No, it's because I put my earplugs in because my house cleaner is upstairs vacuuming. Patrick: Oh well how fancy, how fancy. Kat: I'm very fancy, you know that. Patrick: Very fancy with your extravagance earbuds. Kat: So I said that everybody should send you a love heart shower because you're surviving in only 15.555 degree Celsius right now, for the Australians. Now, if people are from Melbourne though, which is my hometown, they're going to be like, "Harden the fuck up, that's warm," but here where I live that's horrible. Horrible. Nobody should have to endure those sort of ... Patrick: Yeah, these are very horrible circumstances. [crosstalk 00:02:58] Kat: Nobody should have to endure those sort of subzero temperatures. Patrick: Nobody should be asked to endure these subzero temperatures, I'll tell you that. All right. Kat: All right. I might need some assistance. Can you help me out? Patrick: What do you got? Kat: Should I wear my hair like this? Should I wear my hair like that or behind? Or on one side? What's the best livestream hair? Patrick: I kind of like it behind. Kat: Out? Patrick: That looks good. Kat: Behind, all right. There you go everybody. Patrick: There you go. That looks good. Kat: We're going to talk about [crosstalk 00:03:37] Patrick: That's the queen Kat look. Kat: [crosstalk 00:03:39] Cleopatra. Patrick: She says, Angela said, [inaudible 00:03:43] I'm in Texas right now. Texas by way of Bali, very, very soon. In the next month, no, no, this month. This month, I'm going next week, next week. Kat: This week maybe. Maybe even tomorrow. Patrick: No I have to wait till the weekend. Kat: Oh well. Patrick: Have to wait till the weekend because [crosstalk 00:04:04] I have to move my stuff. Kat: Time and space is just, time is just an illusion anyway. The weekend could mean tomorrow. Could mean today. Could all be one day. That's extended into itself. Patrick: Time is an illusion [crosstalk 00:04:18] Kat: I think I'm going to take these out again now. I'm going to take these out again now because they're annoying me. Patrick: What is [inaudible 00:04:25] giving you a delay? I'm going to drop this in my [crosstalk 00:04:30] Kat: No, I just prefer no earbuds and the vacuuming stopped. But check it out, I'm sorry that I keep doing this to you Patrick, but I'm going to do it anyway. Are you ready? Patrick: I'm ready. Kat: I'm just eating my bacon and eggs with my Vegemite while in waiting for us to go live. Patrick: Oh my God. Oh my god. Kat: I was halfway through eating. Patrick: How are you destroying this fucking meal with that shit? That's an all American meal, and you're just going to destroy it with that. Destroy it, it's completely just- Kat: Look, pay attention. You want to put the Vegemite straight onto your eggs. Straight on. Patrick: What's that green thing? I don't want to put that Vegemite anywhere near my eggs. I don't want it anywhere near any of my food. Kat: That's avocado. Patrick: Oh that's an avocado? Kat: That's avocado. Patrick: I thought you all had green eggs and ham over there or something because I don't even know. Kat: You want to eat that with, look, pay attention. Patrick: I have no idea what you all have over there. Kat: You want to put a little bit of Vegemite on the avocado, eat it like that. I don't know why I get so much enjoyment from doing this to you. Patrick: [crosstalk 00:05:29] it's just crazy how different people's taste buds are. Kat: It's so good. Patrick: What you just did- Kat: It's just because- Patrick: What you just did was the equivalent of somebody spraying a cat turd on a fucking piece of toast and eating it to me, that's just what I just saw you do. Kat: I'd love to have some toast. [crosstalk 00:05:52] I'd love to have toast with avocado. You also- Patrick: What's up [crosstalk 00:05:57] on here. Feel like we're getting delayed [crosstalk 00:06:00] again, we're delayed. Kat: We're not delayed. The internet just doesn't know how to keep up with us, but really you should also always dip your bacon straight into the Vegemite. Pay attention. Look. Patrick: I'm not paying attention to that, it's fucking heresy. Kat: Because salt with bacon. The saltiness, it's like extra salt in it. It's great. Patrick: That's the most disgusting thing. Kat: So yesterday- Patrick: You're so beautiful and then you do such disgusting things to yourself. It's just weird. It's like [crosstalk 00:06:37] weird, it's like- Kat: It's part of my mystique. Patrick: Why did this very creative hot chick just do the nastiest thing. It's like watching a shizer video. Know what shizer is, [crosstalk 00:06:44] the German [crosstalk 00:06:45] Kat: I'm sorry, but thanks. No. No. But I appreciate the compliment. Patrick: No. Have no idea [crosstalk 00:06:51] Kat: But I can't help it, it's part of my mystique. Patrick: That's not mystique, that's not. Kat: But it's actually ... Do I need to know? Patrick: What'd you say? We've got a delay, we've got a delay. Kat: Do I need to know? No I was waiting for you, do I need to know or understand? Patrick: Well you're from Germany, so you should know. It's basically German scat porn basically. You know what scat porn is? Have you ever heard of it? Kat: I don't watch any German porn. Currently I don't watch German porn. I watch regular, all American or Australian porn. Patrick: Well I'm saying that you can know of it, you can know of it. There's different types you know, when you're scrolling through you're going to see some different categories. There's grandma, there's all sorts [crosstalk 00:07:38] of different types. Then there's German shizer, there's scat porn, you just happen to be scrolling by it, see it, sometimes. Kat: So basically what's happened here is we came on to do a recoded conversation about art and resistance and flow and we're talking about German porn? Patrick: Yes. Particularly the scat variety. You invited me on here. Kat: I just like to keep- Patrick: You fucking invited me on here. Kat: I think you said we need to record our conversation. You said I believe ... Thank you. You said I believe it's time to record our conversation again or something like that I believe it is. You messaged me yesterday and then you must have rudely just gone to bed straight after messaging me because I needed help, I was stuck in the resistance, I wrote back to you with a happy faced emoji. Then you must have gone to sleep so I just had to live in the resistance all by myself with nobody to kick my ass. Patrick: Yeah, I saw that, I was like man [crosstalk 00:08:38] Kat: And that's how I ended up with [crosstalk 00:08:39] Patrick: That was a weird thing to wake up to, I was like wow, you were in the, you, Kat of all people in the resistance? Now that's the part usually reserved for me. I'm the one that likes to play in the resistance. Kat: I know, it's mind blowing. The truth is maybe I just don't talk about it enough. It's like quicksand, it was dragging me into it. It was probably a Vegemite deficiency in my bloodstream. There was definitely a flow deficiency in my bloodstream. Patrick: It's all coming to a head you know. It's finally attacking your nervous system. Kat: The Vegemite? Or the flow? Patrick: Yes. Kat: So then okay, so this morning I went to Muay Thai and I was doing my rounds in the ring and I couldn't breathe properly. It's fucking annoying because I'm very fit, but my fitness just wasn't there. He's like, "What's going on?" And I said to him, my trainer, "I think I'm just not connected to my body properly yet." Like I haven't connected into my body yet because my mind's thinking about other stuff and we had already done maybe three or four rounds. I was going hard, but I was just like kind of breathing like that, but I wasn't feeling anxious about anything. So then it was just fucking annoying, but as soon as I, like we got to maybe 30 or 40 minutes into the session even, and then you feel that switch click and you connect to flow and you're just like holy shit, it's on and you're in that dance and that super flow. Kat: It's exactly like business. I was saying to my trainer this morning it's like, you're like, ugh, even I get this, I get it every fucking day. Like people maybe think I'm motivated because I do so much content. Well I'm driven by, I hate the fucking feeling of when I don't do my content. I just feel like shit if I don't do my art, but that doesn't mean that when I sit my ass in the chair that it's flowing. It's often exactly the same as at the start of that workout where the first 10 or 20 or 30 or even 40 minutes, you just feel like you're wading through quicksand. You don't feel connected properly and you're not breathing deeply and then you're thinking, this shit, what am I even writing. Even yesterday after I messaged you then I was like fuck you, apparently you're not going to message me back and save me, so I'm going to have to write something myself and figure it out. [crosstalk 00:11:07] Patrick: [inaudible 00:11:10] all the time. Kat: And I write something, I write a blog anyway, but it was so shit. I posted it anyhow on Facebook, it was just the lamest thing I've ever posted in the history of time. It's still there, everyone can see it from yesterday. Even my team are like, "What is this, is this a blog? Are we supposed to put this on the Instagram story? What is this actually, there's no photo, it's not long enough." No, they weren't really ... But my point is you just got to do that damned thing anyway. You don't wait for flow, you get into flow. Sometimes you've got to get in and it's like a tumultuous, whitewater river and you just got to get pounded under the water again and again and knocked back down. Then at some point it's like boom, I'm in the flow zone. Everyone just wants to be in the flow zone, but you don't get there without being willing to go through the quicksand a bit. Patrick: No, it's funny you mention this now and I glad we're on here talking about this because I actually had exactly what you're talking about happened today, but fortunately ... So, did you ever get back into, did you ever reach flow or did you just spend the whole day just not, you didn't get there? Or did you finally get there? Kat: Yesterday, you know what, I wrote the damn post anyway. I published a post, I put a sales call to action on the end because I fucking show up for my art, that's my commitment. I'm very consistent. I'm probably the most consistent person on the internet with content, I believe. And I'm personally doing all my content myself as well, it's not like you know some people put a tonne of content out there, but how much content are they actually doing. Patrick: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Kat: I think I'm like the most consistent person out there. So I posted the damn post anyway, I had to cut it short because I was meeting somebody and I knew that he was going to be there any minute. I was like all right, I didn't even have the time to get into my flowzone, I had like 12 minutes. I'm like fuck, I'll write something. I still wrote a damn blog, I still put a sales call to action on the end. I was like, this is bullshit, but, I don't know how many likes or comments are on it, but the people who commented and liked it, the people who commented were like, "This is exactly what I needed." And so it's about getting out of your own way, but then after that I went on a walk for like two hours. Had a good conversation and then came home and I still wasn't quite in that flowzone and I thought I could livestream last night and snap myself into it. But I didn't, resistance got me by the ass. I sat around for a bit, fucked around, pretending to do things on the computer and then I just went to bed. Kat: But, this morning, I don't know if you read my blog this morning. It was so good, it might be one the best posts I've written this year. It's called, "You're not a marketer you're an artist. A tortured one or not, and you'd better start fucking acting like it," or something like that. When I wrote that [crosstalk 00:13:55] blog ... Huh? Patrick: I saw it, I usually read your stuff at night on my time, nighttime you know. At the end of my day I'll read it. So you kind of catch me whenever I haven't read it yet. Kat: You're going to like that one. I'm so happy with that. You know when you write something or you do a livestream and you're just like oh, yeah, I fucking nailed it. Or, I didn't even know what I wrote, but I got what I want from it. I got that release and that connection to soul and then I went straight to training to Muay Thai then I was disconnected for 35 minutes. Then I got in the zone and holy shit, the last 15 or 20 minutes of my workout this morning, I have not brutalised myself like that in a while. It was so good, like I was nearly collapsing onto the floor. It's like that voice in your head that's like oh, are you going to die, are you going to die, you think you're going to fall down and die? You can't keep going? Are you dead yet? No, then keep fucking going bitch. I was just smack talking myself and I was so on the edge of being like I need timeout, I need to stop early. Kat: I just kept going and I kept thinking of, like I always remember Arnold Schwarzenegger saying that your body can go so much further than your mind. Like when you think that your body is done, whether it's in training, but also with the business. Your writing, your art, it's such a load of bullshit. I love nothing better than kicking my own ass and being like oh, you think you're hurting, you think this hurts? Keep fucking going. It's the most empowering feeling in the world. I literally collapsed onto the floor in the ring at the end of the session. Within a second though I had the biggest smile on my face already even though I was in agony. Kat: It's just, I don't know, I don't know how many people relate to that, but I love the pain, the purposeful pain. Otherwise, you just feel like you're not alive. So that resistance got me yesterday, but then today I eliminated it. Patrick: Well I know we were talking, the night before I believe, we were talking about how to say enjoy resistance. We were also talking about some of the things that were going on with your spot and where you were living at and things like that. We were talking about being where you were at and that you might have to create new challenges for yourself. You think this is maybe a product of that? Maybe your mind switched over to that, maybe you wanted some more resistance and you brought that to yourself? Kat: Maybe, that's a good point. Yeah, we had a phone call the other night that went for nearly three hours. At the end we were like fuck, we forgot to record our phone call again, so that we can sell it to everybody. It was so good. So now we- Patrick: It was good. Kat: No we're doing this for everyone. You can send [crosstalk 00:16:38] us a love heart [inaudible 00:16:40] huh? Patrick: Some love hearts to what? Kat: To thank us for being here and speaking. Patrick: Oh yeah, for sure. Check this out though, so we talked about that right and then so now that was happening, this resistance was happening. Now I've been like, the resistance is easing up on me. I've been going through fucking resistance because I'm a glutton for punishment. I don't know what do they call it, sadistic? No, it was masochist, what's the one where you like to get kicked in the balls? Kat: Isn't one of them like means you like to hurt other people and one means you like to hurt yourself? Masochist is you like self punishment I think. Patrick: Yeah, I think that's the one. Kat: And sadist is you like to hurt other people. Patrick: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one of those two, the one where you get kicked in the balls. Obviously that's what I'm going through right now, I like to kick myself in the balls here. I've been going through that resistance, what we talked about on the phone. Maybe I want to, obviously yes, of course, why the fuck, how could it be any other way? How could it be any other way? Anything that you're going through, any resistance that you have in your life is because you want it to be there. Plain and simple. There's no other way around it, if you take responsibility for everything in your life as you should, as you should. If you believe in manifestation, if you believe it's all in your control. If you fucking believe in manifestation, [inaudible 00:18:03] you can alter your body by eating donuts or ramen noodle soups and still lose weight. If you believe that you have that [crosstalk 00:18:12] kind of control- Kat: Who said anything about donuts? Patrick: If you believe that you have that kind of control over the universe, then you better damn fucking well believe that you're making this shit up. That you're making up the resistance, you're creating the resistance. You're creating the despair, the feeling, the thoughts or the anguish. All that shit you want to, you fucking masochist you. You want the kick in the balls for some reason. Patrick: Okay, well I'm tired of the kick in the balls I guess. I must be done with it because today, so and then we're talking about now we're talking about my day. What's up Johnny? What's up Pistol Pete. Then we're talking about, now it's kind of easing up on me right. I woke up this morning and I saw your message, I'm like damn, I left her in the cooker last night. She's just, it's like I can't believe I saw this message of resistance here. I'm like, I was blown away by it you know, but I knew you were asleep, so obviously went about my day. Patrick: I started out my day just like you're talking about. I couldn't get into where I was trying to go. I was getting wrapped up and started right out the gate getting into shit that's not my art. Started getting into stuff pertaining to my other business, which I had put a cutoff date. We had just got done talking about that, saying fuck everything until noon or whatever, you know, until we get going. Right off the bat I start getting things happening though that were saying to me that some resistance was being overcome in the other business. So I was like huh, so I took the bait you know. I took the bait. Patrick: Not only that, last night I had found a blog post that I had written and I had never posted it. I got scared about it and I didn't post it. I was acting like a little bitch and I left it there. And so I discovered it and I was like fuck, I had already wrote a blog post that night. So, I had two blog posts and so I was happy about that, I'm like okay, I've got two. I'm going to drop those tomorrow. So I'm feeling good about that. I went to sleep and I woke up and immediately some things started happening at the other business, some resistance was overcoming the other business. I'm like fuck, okay, okay we're making some headway here so this is good. I jump right in this, it's like 8:00 in the morning, I jump right into that and start going to mess with my other business. Patrick: I get caught up with all that and next thing you know 12:00 comes around. I'm slugging, but I had been throughout the day doing tiny things because I'd been, I'm going to post content all day. Today, I'm just going to have a day where I post all content. You know on my Instagram, I'm going to post content throughout the day on my Facebook, I'm going to post whatever. I had just been starting to feel it again. Started to post things and they were getting a lot of engagement on them you know, just things that I would think, I'd post it and just small things you know, not real boring blog posts. Patrick: Then I drop my blog post on there, sprinkle that because I had that ace up my sleeve, so I drop the blog post, bam. I drop the other blog post, bam. Then it just started to come together, right. Then we rolled right into, right about 12:00 noon or so I took a little nap and then 1:00 PM and then the resistance just started to go down. All just starts to crumble right? Kat: Yeah. Patrick: Everything starts going right. I just start banging out all sorts of stuff. Me and Travis ended up doing, we just got done off of a livestream, which generated a lot of new people into our circle and to his audience. I'm jumping on here with you and now this is going, this is a great one right, so just like all the ones that we do. And so, it just started rolling, that's been my day. It just started rolling, and it started out just like you talked about though. It's very sluggish, but it took me till about 1:00 PM till it just started to roll really good, but I stuck with it. I stuck with it, I just kept on thinking I've posted, but it was like bite sized pieces of content that I kept dropping that led up to it. Kat: Yup. Exactly. Exactly and we talked about this when we were on the phone the other night that was like until 2:00 AM my time, that massive phone call. I said the same thing about when you're working out and it's like the first 10 or 20 minutes or however long, you just feel like fuck this shit. I don't really want to be here, I'm not feeling it. That was me this morning in the ring, I was like oh, fuck. Okay, yeah, I'm here, I'm doing what I need to be doing, but my mind was like why am I here. I'm not really vibing with this and I wish I didn't come today or whatever. You just fucking learn over the years, you figure it out finally when time is passing you by in your life and then you still didn't do the damn shit that you said you were going to do. At some point you just figure the shit out where you're like, oh fuck. Kat: I can remember, probably five years ago I can remember feeling like I think I was waiting, I thought there would be a point in my life where I would evolve to being a person whose always motivated and always ready, always has the inspired ideas and wants to do the damn thing. I remember one day it just kind of smacked me in the face like a wake-up call where I was like, oh shit, I just realised that for the rest of my life I will still battle resistance because it's part of the human condition. Particularly as an artist, resistance is inherent to being an artist, that's why I wrote this morning about the tortured soul. Probably your blog influenced my post this morning a little bit because you know, like I told you, when I got up in the morning before I journal I always read something. There's only like five people whose shit I'll read and I checked if you posted something new. I checked, you had posted something new so I read your blog and it was full-on. For me I found that full-on to read to hear the voices inside of your head. I was like holy shit that was so raw, it was like everybody should go read that blog. It's on your personal profile right? Patrick: Appreciate it. Kat: Go read it. But it was kind of painful to read, I found it kind of painful to read. Patrick: That's so funny you said that, [crosstalk 00:24:31] somebody messaged me, two people messaged me and they said the exact fucking same thing. They said, "I can't believe that shit. I did not know you wrote like that," and they said that it was painful. I said, "Well, what's painful about it?" It was like, "Well, it's painful to read." Two women you know, so I was wondering why is it painful for you to read it, you know what I mean? That's what I was wondering because I really was thinking about connecting with guys for it you know, more along the lines with the guys. Kat: Well, for me personally I found it painful to read because I care about you. I was like, that's like hearing somebody that you care about saying that shit about themselves, it's like fuck, it just felt painful for me for that reason. I don't know about what other people's reasons are, but also because I could relate to it. At first, I was thinking this so fucking full-on I can't believe you say that shit inside of your head, I found it shocking. Kat: Then I was like wait, why do I find it shocking, it's only shocking because you're writing it down because I've said all that same sort of shit to myself many times over as well. In my way, about my own stuff and if people heard the voices inside my head I'm sure they'd be shocked. Like you were taken aback even by me just simply saying that I'm in resistance, right? Now think about the shit that you put in that blog, it was extreme. Well I think that's why at first I was like, this is so full-on, like I felt shocked or upset about it just relevant to you personally, not in a general sense. Then I was like wait, no, it's just because this is a very raw, extreme thing for somebody to write down. I definitely have said so much to inside of my own head. Kat: Then I loved the way you finished the post like where basically you choose each day, every day you have those voices in your head and then you have the voice that's saying that you can and that you will. Then that is now what you do, you do your damn journaling, you do your content, you're showing up for your business and for your art. That's exactly the same as me and that's what I've always done and that's what I've done to get to this point. Now, for sure I don't have as much of those voices as I used to, it is less because I guess I've proven myself, to myself to whatever degree. Kat: But it's still here and that's what I think so many people don't understand about me. I'm not, or about anyone, about you as well, you do your livestreams every day, I do my content every day. People then go, oh no well I couldn't be like Patrick or I couldn't be like Kat. They're motivated, they're good on camera or whatever it is, but then go and read what you wrote about how you feel about yourself some of the time. Or if somebody could hear inside of my head and the smack talk that goes on in there. It's about realising that yeah, as you keep going and as time passes it will get easier, and I think you said this in your post, it gets easier because you learn how to deal with it. I feel like I learned how to dance with resistance and I can see it for the bullshit that it is, whereas maybe earlier on in my life I tended to believe it more. Kat: Now even if I feel like I'm believing it a little bit, I'll be like, yeah, no, I know exactly what's going on here. I do know what the answer is because fucking 20 years of training, of fitness training, has taught me how to get into flow and how to breakthrough resistance and discipline my ass and if you're not dead yet you keep going. Then many, many years in business as well has taught me the same thing, so I always know that the answer is too fucking bad, sit your ass down and do the damn thing. Sometimes it will feel fucking incredible, like today when I wrote my blog I was on the biggest high. I got in the car and I was just slamming my best tunes and then driving down to the fight gym. I was like, this is the best day ever, I'm so in the zone and that's an amazing feeling. Kat: I wish I could have that feeling every day, but yesterday felt like quicksand day. It doesn't matter right, like some days you'll feel superflow, some days you won't, so the fuck what. Either way you keep going, but for sure because I read your blog first and then normally I read a piece, I read if you write something or [inaudible 00:28:44] or whoever else I read, like such a small handful of people. Then I go into my journaling and then usually I write my blog after that. Today I read your blog first and then it really did impact me a lot, then I went straight into writing my blog, I didn't even do anything on [crosstalk 00:29:00] yet today, which is [crosstalk 00:29:01] Patrick: Damn, did my blog fuck your day up? Did my blog fuck your day up? Kat: No, no, it's the opposite because I had to write straight after that. Patrick: Oh, that's good. Kat: I went straight into writing that piece, but I was partly responding to you and partly I was thinking about one of my inner circle clients and partly it was for myself. Okay wait, we're going to need to start again because Brandon just jumped on and he asked that we start again. So where we started [crosstalk 00:29:26]- Patrick: I believe we started without him. Kat: Was with me dipping the bacon into the Vegemite. We got to start with the bacon and the Vegemite if we're starting from the top. Patrick: Can we please not? Kat: Anyway- Patrick: Brandon dammit, this was a bad day for that. Even though you're eating [crosstalk 00:29:39] Kat: Yeah, no, [crosstalk 00:29:40] read my blog later you'll see my blog was partly like it's speaking to you and like I was talking to you, but then I was talking to myself, but then I was talking to one of my clients and I told her that. It was just, I kind of love that because something you wrote definitely impacted what I created and what I created will be impacting other people. It's just amazing, it's the collective unconscious. Patrick: Well I saw your blog post and it jumped out at me. I was like this is something that I have to read, I just saw the title and I can't remember exactly what it said. I just saw it and I was like, I'm going to have to read that later on because I immediately saw it and I was feeling like, I don't know it was kind of geared towards me or something. The words weren't like that, but I just felt that, you know what I mean? Kat: Yeah, and I knew, usually I don't tell somebody if I write a blog that's skewed towards them because I know you're going to feel it anyway. It's not always, but often I'll be thinking of a particular person when I'm writing. It started off towards you and then it became about me. I thought it was going to be, I thought the post was going to be about honouring and respecting the artist, being like my soul recognises the artist in your soul, that sort of thing. Like the respect that I have for that and then it turned into kind of like a smack down post where I was kicking ass and I think that was at myself. Then at the end I was like fuck, this was not supposed to be about me. Then I brought it back around again and it just came out however it came out. Patrick: Oh see everything that I read, I'm like thinking, everything I read from you I'm thinking this is to me right. Kat: Everybody does, especially when I do, I don't know do you get this sometimes or have you had this happen, but if I do a post that's really quite brutal I'll tend to get like 20 people message me and they'll be like, "I know you were talking about me." And I'm like, "Well, if you think that I was, then maybe I was." Patrick: That could be the case, but I used to think that all the time when I worked for Ryan. I would always say and he'd said if you think, he said the same thing. If you think it is, it is. So, you're right, it's right, in the case if you think it is, it is, right. It's for you, it's for you if you are triggered by the wording. But I wrote mine like a while back and then I didn't feel anything about posting it. When I found it I was like, yes, I found it. I was like I'm going to post this now, no problem. I remember what you told me, it was like you should just not even think about it and just post it. So I posted it and it was apparently like real full-on, people said that. Patrick: I think that you do, like what I did was I was sitting there facing resistance big time whenever I started to write that. I was facing one of the biggest challenges of my life, which was making our first sale since we went out on our own, and it wasn't happening. It was taking like two weeks, I mean we were in this thing for like two weeks, damn near a month. I was sitting there, and I'm sure I had probably talked to you the night before, something like that. I was writing, I started to write the beginning of it you know, just to start thinking about what kind of shit you say to yourself whenever, or the kind of shit that people say to themselves whenever they're facing that. I really wanted to know, I started thinking about the things that I was thinking at the time. Patrick: Then I was like, well this is bullshit because this is right around when the shit broke and we made ourselves and everything started to work out for the better. That was when I was really, really getting into it and getting into manifesting and writing and controlling it you know. Right before it happened I just said, I'm just going to take all these things that are being said and I'm just going to go with it. As much as I can I'm just going to just get it all out there. Everything that I hear on the stream of thought, I'm going to just write it down as I go. Patrick: And so, I did, I just started fucking like turned on some music and I just started. Every one of the resistant thoughts that came through, I just typed as it was coming. I was like this is some fucking creative ass ways to talk shit to myself, you know, of this voice in my head that's talking this shit. Just so creative and the ways it says, the lies it says about you. I just put it down and it was just endless and relentless and didn't stop. I just had to stop it myself you know. It would have just kept going. Kat: It was relentless. That's how, like I was reading it, I was sitting down at the coffee shop. I was like how fucking long is this going for? It's just getting worse and worse, but that's why it was painful, I was like fuck me, I thought it would be finished now, it's still going? Then I was thinking, I hope there's going to be a reframe at the end of this and it's not just going to finish. And then there was. Patrick: The end. Your life is horrible. But I got it [crosstalk 00:35:01] it was like an experiment to just fucking just see if it would stop you know, but it wouldn't. I had to stop it myself which I guess you could say something about that. You have to stop that fucking voice yourself. It's not going to stop on its own. You have to stop it because [crosstalk 00:35:21] it's there if you want- Kat: You have to see it for what it is. Patrick: Yeah. Kat: You've got [crosstalk 00:35:25] to see it for what it is. Yeah, it's the devil. We were talking about this on the phone the other night. It's a seduction right? Patrick: Yes it is. Kat: Did you read Patrick's post Maria? It's like be prepared to be upset. If anyone reads that post, just be prepared to be upset, but it will be powerful for you. I think that we all think that we're the only ones who have those thoughts. It's natural to feel like if people knew the truth about me, or if people, like I should feel ashamed of myself or whatever. Everybody has those thoughts and then everyone looks at ... Yes, so Maria read your post, she's one of my inner circle clients, she said she was in tears. Exactly, I think for women in particular it's going to upset them. I thought it upset me because I had a personal interest, but I think it probably upsets everyone. Kat: It was very upsetting because it was so raw, but it's also incredibly healing. That's the sort of blog post that will heal people and probably healed you maybe when you wrote it or maybe by publishing it because it's so raw. That's the point I was trying to make in my blog this morning ... Where can you find this post, just click on, I'll get the link. I'm so helpful. I'll put the link here in the comments. Like I'm fucking up all my shit now. Kat: It's [crosstalk 00:36:45] like I wrote about this a little bit in my post that you've got to, to impact people, like yesterday I was talking to somebody new who I met about my business. I was explaining how I market, and he's an entrepreneurs as well with four amazing businesses, but a totally opposite sort of entrepreneur to me. We were talking about how the way that I show up on social media is the exact opposite of him. I put as much of myself out there as possible, and he's got as little of himself out there as possible. I was saying my system basically, my marketing is essentially I'll write these three thousand word blog posts every single day. The people who can get to the end of that and watch all my content are clearly, they're my soulmate clients or they wouldn't be sticking around that much. He was like- Patrick: I like that system. Kat: Holy shit, big long posts [inaudible 00:37:34] right, but he goes ... Oh yeah there's the blog. He goes, "Yeah, but that wouldn't work anymore would it," or something, or, "That's because you already built that up or something like that?" I'm was like, "No, no, it doesn't matter how crowded the internet is or how crowded Facebook is there is always going to be a space for the true artist to bear their soul." Like since the dawn of time, those of us who are storytellers, messengers and who actually reveal the raw shit inside of us, like what you wrote, was the painful, gritty, even ugly parts of the soul. It's almost like you don't want to look at it directly, it's like staring into the sun. It's too much, it's too intense, it feels too painful. Then at the same time it's magnetising and you can't look away. Kat: So somebody who can share a piece of their soul like that, like you do and like I do and like many people here do, really are very few people though in the total of the internet marketing world. That person doesn't fucking need to buy their followers like you livestreamed about yesterday and we talked about the other night. Or to worry about a fucking funnel or what's the best strategy or Facebook ads. Nothing wrong with doing your funnels and your whatever right, but it's the cherry on top. Anybody who can release a piece of their soul and is brave enough or willing to do that, will always have people that want to listen because it is a magnet. Kat: It's just mind blowing to me how so many amazing artists and messengers are out there wasting their lives thinking that the way to build a following or to make money is let me get my fucking funnel right or my strategy or my marketing for whatever bullshit. And let me have a pretty website on the internet and make sure that I have good head shots. Are you kidding me? Why don't you just strip yourself naked and show it to everybody? Your soul, right? That's all it takes. Patrick: Anybody [crosstalk 00:39:38] can have- Kat: Being willing to do that even in your own resistance. Patrick: And there's a lot of ego out there too. It's like everybody's got one of those, so how do you really separate yourself from everybody else. You know what I mean, everybody's got a marketing strategy, everybody's got a marketing plan. Everybody's got an ego, so how do you get that ... I get to talk to people today, I got to talk to somebody because of my blog post. One of my people, one of my people, as I call them true believers. He was going through some serious shit in his life, like some real, real horrifying shit that he told me about that I got to help him through, today. So to me to be able to help in such a way to change somebody's life, to save a life is, fuck, that's more important to me than the other shit. Patrick: The other shit's stupid and I wouldn't get that far with somebody if I didn't post something like I did, if I didn't say what I was really feeling I wouldn't get to say that. It wouldn't probably connect like that on that level with him. That to me is more rewarding than anything else I could be doing. Even if I have to take, for a while, you know it's going to be a while. I could go out here and make a marketing webinar and be very successful with it and make money off of it you know. I could do that. Kat: Successful. Patrick: Yeah, successful. Run traffic to it and do all ... I know how to do all that, I've done it. Or a book funnel or whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do to make money. Give somebody an irresistible offer, tell them how to double or triple their income, whatever you want to do. That's fine, but understand that anybody can fucking do that. Anybody can do that. If you hold back, if you don't say what's on your mind, if you don't actually share a piece of yourself, then you're not really like an artist I don't think. You know? Then you're just giving people- Kat: You're not and you have to decide [crosstalk 00:41:46] if you want to be an artist first or a marketer first. Like, you're an amazing marketer, I know a lot about marketing as well. We can both do all that shit. I don't even think anybody can do it, it is still a skillset because plenty of people are trying to fucking do it and they're not doing anything, they're not getting anywhere with it. Kat: I did read a blog post one time by a mentor of mine from years back and she was like you got to choose, you're either an artist of an entrepreneur, who are you? I was like holy shit, she's right, I'm an artist first. I am an entrepreneur, I am a marketer, I where those hats and I've been an entrepreneur, like it's in my blood, I've been selling shit since I was three years old. But first and foremost I'm an artist. You've got to choose, you can't be in both camps. You can't be like, oh I'm an artist and I share from my soul and I do my soul purpose, but first let me build this pretty little funnel over here and then I'll be ready. It's bullshit. Kat: Nobody said you need that you needed the internet to get your message out there and to make money. Amazingly enough artist through the history of time have managed to have people fall in love with them without a Facebook page. I know it's mind blowing for everybody and you might need therapy [inaudible 00:42:57] and some sexual healing in order to come to terms with that, but you don't need any of that shit in order to get your message out there. What you do need is to be courageous enough to put the blinders on and just art, art, art, art, art because like we said, you have a true believer client as you call them, I call them my soulmate clients, who comes to you as a result of that post. That person is so connected to you now, there's instant trust, instant deep rapport, they become a longterm client who refer their friends and just be so in love with you and your message because they see themselves in you. Kat: Most people, you could do an automated webinar and get leads from that, like you said. You could become successful and I say successful like that because even if you were making great money doing that, which of course you could do and you know how to do. You would be, and we've talked about this many times, you would be miserable. You would be hating it, your soul would be dying because it wouldn't be doing your purpose work and you're essentially selling your soul to the wrong clients, the wrong people doing the shit that doesn't light you up. Kat: Whereas, when you go all in with your art yeah, like most people are going to be horrified at the idea of reading a daily two or three thousand word blog post or listening to a one hour livestream that you do. They're going to think that's crazy, who wants to listen to that. I've had people make fun of me so many times when I've had hater-ship online. Like, "Oh ha ha, who would read all that shit?" I'm like, "Well firstly I don't fucking care if anybody reads it because I'm writing it for me bitch, not for you. Secondly, clearly a few people are fricking reading it if you look at the business that I've created." Kat: So if somebody is going to read that or watch your webstream or read your post, then they come to you and talk to you, that person is a soulmate client for life. I'd rather 10 people like that than a 100,000 people that are fucking bored on Instagram or got off a webinar. Patrick: Well there going to fall off, those people are going to like, what people realise is how much of this bullshit that's out there that's the same. People don't show you their refunds, people don't show you their attrition rates. People are dropping off. They don't show you that shit. They don't show you that shit. All they'll show you is- Kat: Yeah, so true. So true and we talked about that the other night as well. Like my refund rate is like 0.000001%. I'll get like three refunds a year and two of them is because the person accidentally bought the same product twice. They're like shit, I didn't realise I already have it, can you refund me? Patrick: And I haven't had that one- Kat: That's not normal, what's the industry rate even? It's like- Patrick: It's crazy, it's like 30. Kat: 40 or 50% some of the time. Patrick: Yeah. Yeah, it's insane. Then people don't say that and then they don't say, they don't talk about you know, affiliates and things like that that they're doing. So numbers are fucking crazy you know what I mean? You can't even get into numbers there's so much bullshit out there. There's so much bullshit out there that you might as well just be truthful and honest and just put yourself out there. I get on here and I've got now these few people that come on, I mean anything that I do, they follow me around for whatever it is that I do. I did something with Travis today, which we did marketing and I dropped a link out there for our funnels and everything. I thought we're going to pull in these new prospects right and these clients for his side of things, you know his new audience and everybody who showed up was my people. They hopped on to see that we were talking marketing, they showed up, popped up. Kat: They watch you, or my people watch me instead of Netflix. My people say that all the time, they're like, "I can't believe what time it is and I'm still watching your content." That's all you want, but it's also like what we're saying here is your going to get a better result just following your art and making your marketing strategy should be your art. Then let's not forget also the selling of the soul side of it because even if it was true that you could make more money, which I do not believe, by following straight up internet marketing Stepford-preneurship you would be miserable, in sabotage, addicted to whatever shit that's not good instead of addicted to flow. And just not happy right? Kat: I did it that way, I built my business at first to where it was nearly at a million dollars a year because I did the fucking work and I did the marketing. I was right on the cusp of a million dollars a year in my business. This was in 2012, and I walked away. I shut the whole thing down, I walked away from all of it. I remember saying to my partner at the time, if this is the path to a million dollar business, I don't want it. I cannot do this anymore, I would rather go back to being a personal trainer. I said to him, "I'm going to give myself three months, give me three months. I'm going to prove that I can make money doing what I love, but fuck all that shit, I'm going all in doing what I want. If I don't do it in three months then I'll just go back to the gym and I'll be a trainer again because I know how to make a lot of money doing that." Kat: Well, I didn't do it in three months anyway, I ended up over $100,000 in debt and blew the whole thing up. Then eventually, eventually, I stayed though, I stuck to it and now look where I am because I've experienced what it's like to make good money by selling my soul. I mean, it's your life right, you want to be, this is like right now we're not really selling anything, but this is content. This is us filling ourselves up with our art and our craft. Even though we're not directly making an offer, how many people are becoming soulmate clients or true believer clients of each of us right now because of this content. Then we drop a link or we keep saying we're going to start recoding our personal phone calls and sell them. People are going to fucking buy that shit, like who wants to buy the recorded phone calls of when we talk to two or three hours- Patrick: I do. Kat: Because that shits gold, but sometimes we've got to keep it private. But, we'll figure it out. Patrick: Yeah, we got to keep some things private, a little bit, a little bit. Those are like extreme, super, super VIP shit. But Helen makes a good point, Helen's asking a good question here though, she says, "I get what you're saying," but she's surrounded by true artists putting themselves out there every day and never make any money, what would you say about that? Kat: Okay. Okay. Good, I'm so glad I asked this. Patrick: I like that one, yeah. Kat: I was ready to preach on this. I'm going to need a love heart shout-out first, send me the love hearts. Then I'll bring the [crosstalk 00:49:37] Kat show. Patrick: Can I do it to? [crosstalk 00:49:37] Kat: Can you do it too? Everybody shower me with the love heart. Oh there they come, thank you. Patrick: Shower. Kat: All right. I already answered these same questions to two or three clients earlier today when I was answering my client audios, so I'm prepared and I'm ready. Here's the thing right, money, money is just a decision and a choice right? Like yesterday I bought a new car, I'm also getting a new house and a few other things all at once. It is a big deal, I'm excited to get the car, I feel good about it. Yeah, there's some ego attached to it for sure because I feel like yeah, look at my badass car, but at the same time I don't need that in order to be happy or fulfilled right, I'm detached from it. When they didn't give me exactly what I wanted at the dealership I just left. I wasn't doing that as a strategy, I was like okay, I'm not attached, this is what I want, if you can't give it to me I'm leaving. I got in the car and drove away and of course, they called me eight minutes later and gave me what I wanted. Patrick: Sorry guys. Kat: Either way I [crosstalk 00:50:40] Patrick: I used to be one. Kat: But, yeah, you know how it works. I [inaudible 00:50:45] I'm leaving. And I literally was about to sign and then I just put the pen down, I'm like look I've got to go. I'm going to go see the house, I left. What I'm trying to say though is, I don't need the car, I'm not emotionally attached to the car in order to feel good enough, in order to feel worthy, in order to feel like I'm now complete and whole. The thing that fills you up and lights you up and gives you your sense of freedom and completeness and your happiness, your source of all things is being true to yourself and doing your art right? So then for the money, to me the car is the same sort of thing, whether it's a car, whether it's do I want to buy the fancy Voss water, whatever it is. It's just a decision, so I can choose the car or not choose the car, either way I'm whole and I'm complete, but am I going to choose the car, yeah it's fucking badass, it's a hot, sexy car. I'm going to choose the car because I like it and I can have it. Kat: Same as with money. Get out of the idea that there needs to be an emotional attachment around money, it's only money. Choose it or don't choose it, it's infinitely available. Like you can choose am I going to wear pants or a skirt today, it doesn't matter, why get emotionally attached to it, but it's always available. That's how I feel about money. One of the courses a I made in 2014 when I first figured this out for myself was called, "It's only money honey." I called the course, "It's only money honey," one of the best courses I've ever made, because it was like a slap in the face wake up call where I suddenly realised, fuck, I've been making it this really emotional thing. Like am I good enough for money, am I worthy for money. Imagine we did this right, like am I good enough for the Voss water, am I worthy of this, what are people going to think of me? Does this add to my value if I have this amazing water? Either just pick it up off the shelf or don't. It doesn't matter. Kat: And so that was like a breakthrough for me to go oh shit, money is just a decision, decide how much you want. Expect it the same way if you're in a restaurant and you put your order in, you know I'll have a steak and broccoli, you expect it, you assume it's going to turn up. You don't go into the kitchen and be like, am I good enough for this? Do you guys think I'm worthy of the steak, can I really have that? Is it being prepared and will I get it? You just order your fucking meal and then you sit down and you wait for it and you expect that it's going to show up. Then meanwhile you're in the now, being present with whoever you're with. Kat: Same with money, decide it. It's a decision. When you get out of the emotional attachment around money being a reflection of your worth or being something that's going to save you, then you'll realise that it's just something you decide. But you fret now, you think that money would make you more worthy or it's going to save you or it will fill you up or it will make you happy. Or you'll be, yeah, safer in some way or a better person in some way. Then you'll continue to keep it at arm's length because you're trying to validate yourself and you're trying to find your safety and security from something outside of you, which is not possible. Kat: The lesson is you need to decide ... Did I just get invited to go to a cruise? Somebody's just invited me to go on their birthday cruise and I don't even know this person. I'm just magnetic as fuck. Patrick: It's your most active follower it looks like. Kat: I don't even know who that is. Hi, [Taveda 00:54:01] I can't, I can't go. I've got something on, but thank you. Kat: So, yeah, it's about realising it's a decision. If artists are out there and they're broke, maybe they're buying into the broke artist story, but maybe, maybe, and probably, they're in some way basing their self-worth on their financial situation and/or thinking to themselves that if I just had that money, then I'd be safe. Then I'd be good enough, then I'd be a worthy or a valid person. It's the same as love. You'll never find love when you think oh that person is going to make me feel like then I'm good enough, then I'm worthy, then I'm attractive, then I'm whatever. Kat: You got to figure that shit out right, like otherwise you'll just continue to hold that deep connection at arm's bay. When you realise you've already got everything inside of you and of course you can choose the money because abundance is infinite. Or of course you can choose to receive love because it is available. Or of course you can choose to have the body you want or whatever and you don't need it, well like you can need it and not need it at the same time, we've talked about that. But either way, you already get your completeness inside of yourself. Kat: Does that make sense? Did I just ramble in 49 different directions at once? Patrick: Pretty much, but I'm feeling it, I'm catching it. So, you're saying then somebody who is a starving artist, they're buying into it, which that makes sense to me. There's a lot of things that people out here buy into because that's just what people say. You know, oh you're a starving artist. Oh, you're not going to make any money. That's what they say, but how much of this shit is rooted in fact, it's just something that somebody said. You know, there's a lot of shit like that that's out there, but you have to, you know, you can't cuss if you want to make money online. You know, there's a huge one right- Kat: Really? Fuck, that's rude. Patrick: Yeah, how rude. There's all these things that they say. You have to, what else do they say, you know, you already have to have made this much amount of money before you can make any money online. You can't help anybody unless you've hit this, unless you've achieved these goals. You know, you have to have a book. All sorts of crazy shit that's just not true, but people will buy into. There's so many limitations being sold to everybody out here and they're constantly buying into them. I see what you're saying about that, it makes sense because if they're thinking that I'm an artist and I'm not making money or that I'm just going to be an artist, I'm not making money that's fine because that's just what it is. Patrick: Yet, you're on here, I'm on here and we're doing it. There, you in the back. Kat: I have a question. My question is do you think that sometimes artists/entrepreneurs, that there's ego attached to being the starving artist? Like there's an element of look at me suffer? It's almost like a badge of honour that I'm the starving artist, do you think that sometimes people are toting themselves back to that? Patrick: I'm doing it. I'm doing it. You know you get in this thing where you're like, I mean I've seen people do this too, and I do this, I'm guilty. I like the story okay, I like the story. I could have, I mean I'm sure if I opened myself up for it more and just said that it's going to be super easy and that it's just going to happen and everything's going to come to me. I'm just going to go in the superflow and do what you said and just go all in on this thing and have it happen. It's just going to boom, the doors are wide open. Patrick: When I did my first programme I sold a bunch of my first programme right. For me that was a lot to sell as much as I did. That was not even fully half assing it, that was like 10% of what I could have really done, of me going all in because I'm running like two businesses right now. There's the story that if I just got away from this one thing, it would just go so much fucking easier and everything would just happen you know. Instead, I'm choosing to build the story and now I'm going to be able to have the little ego and look back on this thing and be like, I struggled so hard when is first started out and you can go track it. Patrick: I've got that in my head, that's programmed in my head from something I've learned from somebody else. You know that you got to step your way up. You work your way up if you want to get there, you can't just [inaudible 00:58:29] you got to work your way up. So, I feel [crosstalk 00:58:33] that same way, I get- Kat: It's so interesting because ... Patrick: Go ahead. Kat: No you go ahead. Patrick: No, my train of thought just ... Just took a shit. Kat: Well, here's the truth right. I am proud of myself, I have ego and pride, not, I don't mean I shouldn't have, but there is, for me there is ego attached to I know what I fucking went through to build this business. I do feel maybe a bit superior about the fact that I know full well that most people would not do what I did and that they will not choose to be tough enough. I like feeling like I'm the one who can get knocked down again and again and again and look at me bitches, I'm still getting back up again. It relates a lot to all my fitness stuff and like I always wanted to be the most badass hardcore chick in the gym and I would definitely get triggered if I saw another chick who was training harder than me. Then it would bring me up to speed right, I would then become friends with them. Then it would be like it's on. Kat: In business, I definitely have pride that comes from yeah, I did go through so much fucking shit and I just kept getting up and every time I felt like I was on the floor and I couldn't get up again, it was that thing of are you dead yet though? No, then keep going. I do like it, I get off on it. Patrick: There you go. Kat: You know, you said this earlier on in the call, you said to me what we had spoken about on the phone the other night, about how I said to you I've gotten a little bored because the truth is I had my, I think I told you this, I told my private clients. I'm sure I told you this on the phone, I had my biggest income month ever last month in May. I haven't even published it or anything, well I told my private clients about it and I did a livestream talking about the mindset of that. But it was my biggest income month ever and it was like I feel proud of it. I feel likes that's cool, but did I get a rush from it, did I get an adrenaline kick, no. To be honest, and I know what I'm going to say now is going to make a lot of people want to throw shit at me, if you're going to throw shit I like Guylian Seashell Chocolates or Chanel, you can throw Chanel. Patrick: Or Vegemite. Throw [crosstalk 01:00:52] poo. Kat: But, it's very [crosstalk 01:00:52]. I got that all sorted already. Patrick: Fling a little poo. Kat: I just, it's easy for me to make money online and I mean look, it doesn't mean I can't relate to and resonate with where people are at in their journey and their struggle. It hasn't been that long ago where was over 100K debt, struggling and that went on for a long time. I know how to break through that and that's how I support my clients, but it's not a rush for me to, like even if I do a launch that would make an insane amount of money, I would be like that's awesome, but also, I just expect it. I'm not doing to get an adrenaline rush from it in the same way that if I cook an amazing steak, and I do cook an amazing steak, I'm not going to be like oh my God, I can't believe it, this is the biggest rush ever. I mean of course it tastes fucking amazing, I know how to cook steak. Of course the launch made that much money, I know how to make money online. Kat: What we had spoken about and this relates to what I'm saying here is, well where do I get my rush from now. Where do I get my adrenaline from because I am that person. It wasn't just that I was proud of myself for getting up again and again every time I got knocked down, it's that I do get off on it. I enjoy it, I like being like, you know, put through, I like the pain. I like purposeful pain and I feel so alive. Like the training session which I spoke about, which I did this morning was the hardest I've gone. I had to ease back into it obviously with my training after my surgery, but so today was the hardest that I've gone since then. I was dying and then within a second of it being over, or anytime I felt more knocked around, I'm smiling at the same time. I'm like this is so fucking good, it's fucking amazing. I crave that, I want it. Patrick: And you desire it because at this stage in the game you know that all these rules are bullshit. The fact that you have to, I had only $30 in my account when I started out, to get customers, to get clients, to get your soulmate clients is bullshit. You would be able to attract them without that fucking story. You know? You don't need, that story doesn't [crosstalk 01:03:05] Kat: Totally. Patrick: I don't think it brings people, I don't [crosstalk 01:03:07]- Kat: Right. And I don't even tell my [crosstalk 01:03:09] yeah. Even I told you parts of my story like when we were on the phone the other night and you didn't even know some of it because I just don't talk about it that much. I have and I do if I get interviewed and stuff, but I don't use that for my marketing. I use my art for my marketing. I just use self-expression for my marketing. Like you said, I don't need the fucking story, but what I do need is, I need to feel lit up, alive. Maybe you're right that yesterday I created resistance to knock me around and make me feel shitty so that today I could then create the contrast and today I'm on fire. Kat: There's more to it than that, like I think, yeah, I do think sometimes for people who haven't broken through on money yet. Or if you've experienced this, if you're a person who can make a little money and then you're like, yeah I'm riding high. Then it just disappears again and you crash up and down, I know a lot of people do that. I did that for years, I would make quite a lot of money and then I'd be like, where is it? Why am I broke again? What's happening? I did that roller coaster for years. Kat: I finally cracked that quota, I figured it out and I teach my clients this all the time. Because I was addicted to the ego and the adrenaline of when your back's against the wall and you don't know if you're even going to be able to buy food that day or God forbid even coffee. Then you just, like a magician, you pull a rabbit out of a hat because you're forced to, you're so back against the wall and you're going to lose, then you just make magic. You're smashing through and you create and you save yourself, but actually w

Patrick:            They want hang out, Brian [inaudible 00:00:05].Patrick:            They want hang out, Brian [inaudible 00:00:05]. Kat:                Well, they're gonna have to wait til we're done. Patrick:            That's what I told them. Kat:                Oh. We're already - Patrick:            Oh, shit we're already on. Kat:                Yeah, I just noticed.  Patrick:            I think I have to duck down now. Kat:                Yeah, do you want ... how did that happen? What have we changed? Patrick:            I think this thing dropped down just a hair. Kat:                You think? Hang on. Yeah, we're going to deliberately do this live stream faceless. Just, you know, for reasons of privacy. Patrick:            Hi. For reasons of anonymity. Kat:                Yeah. We want to stay anonymous.  Patrick:            Hip hop anonymous? Kat:                Hip hop anonymous? How did that drop down? I don't know how that happened. Patrick:            I need to get some water, too. Agua. Kat:                Share this one. I made a fresh one. Patrick:            Not a big deal, because I'm running on fumes and that's - Kat:                I feel like this is not right. What, okay, we've had this system down all morning. How's this system suddenly fucked with? Is that better? Patrick:            Yeah, that's better. Kat:                It's still off-center. What's going on? Hi everybody. Patrick:            What up, Gary? Kat:                It's okay, cause this is all part of the show. Patrick:            It's part of the show. Kat:                Ooh, I was sitting somewhere different before. I'm so confused now. Patrick:            Let me get up and scoot this thing out just a hair. Here you go. Kat:                All right the problem is that we've had the realisation that we look fantastic when we're positioned in front of this picture. And so now, okay, I don't know what I'm doing. Patrick:            I think you're going to have scoot over just a little bit to the left. Kat:                This way? Patrick:            Yeah. Kat:                Ah. All right, we sorted it out. Patrick:            There we go, all right, go. Kat:                It was a team effort. Well, we realised earlier today that we look fantastic when  we're sitting in front of this photo. Patrick:            Gonna leave me hanging like that? Okay, team effort Boom. There we go. Kat:                Sorry, I didn't notice it. I was so focused on the video. Patrick:            It was beyond my vision. Kat:                And so now we're sitting like very precariously on the back of the couch, and we've now done four live streams so far today between us. Plus, written a blog- Patrick:            Just getting started. Kat:                Journaled first. Our success routine today has been fucking phenomenal. Right? Patrick:            And the flow. Every time we hang out it's always been some serious flow that's going on. Kat:                That's how it goes. We did our journaling, then we blogged, took some Insta stories. If you want to see the worse ever Australian accent in history of time, go and watch my Instagram stories. You're going to see - Patrick:            Some would say the best. Kat:                Who are they? I'm leery. Patrick:            They're there, they're there, there are people.  Kat:                And then we both did our separate blogs. Go read Patrick's blog on his page, I like it a lot. It's on letting life be easy, in all areas. Everything should get to be easy, not hard. I did my blog, then we went upstairs to the gym. Oh my god you should see up there, it's fucking amazing. We're going to go hang by the pool later after this. Patrick:            Yep. I really want to do. Kat:                Then we come back here, we're in fucking flow zone. We've done four live streams today between us. We just did - Patrick:            We've been going hard. Kat:                ... We just did a bad ass as fuck 40 minute live stream into Patrick's private group. If you happen to be a man, which I know there's not many of them in this group, but there are some. You got to go connect with him and get into his group. There's no women allowed in there, but yet I was a guest speaker. Honoured. I'm still not allowed in the group.  Patrick:            No, no. Kat:                I'm allowed to present to the group, but I'm not allowed to be in the group. No, I'm sorry Alexa, we didn't take time out to talk about you last time. Patrick:            There is rules. Kat:                Does he know who I am now? I'm sorry, nope, you don't really know who Alexer is do you?  Patrick:            Alexer? No, I know who Alexa is, not Alexer. Kat:                I told you briefly about Alexa's group, the Kaleidoscope, right?  Patrick:            Yep. Kat:                I told you about that last night. But we didn't go into detail though.  Patrick:            The Kaleidoscope? Kat:                Yeah. Patrick:            No, what's that about. Kat:                Well, I just told she has an amazing group, The Kaleidoscope, where we talk about all things. Sex and love and open relationships and, well, all sorts of combinations of relationships, or whatever people are obviously actually into.  Kat:                I met Alexa ... I'm going to tell this story now, because it's actually very relevant to our live stream and to how we're even ending up on this couch during this live stream. All right, let's position ourselves for the story. Alrighty. So we're just high on life, [inaudible 00:04:02], we don't need any alcohol. Patrick:            I just snorted up a big ol' line of life. Kat:                Yes, it's true. We've had an impressive amount of caffeine though , I must say.  Patrick:            Oh yeah.  Kat:                And almonds and chocolate. Patrick:            But that's healthy. Kat:                Of course. And brown sugar amino acids. Patrick:            And nuts. Not only that, I have nuts. Kat:                And the freaking hustle flow life, we've been content creating like a pair of mother fuckers. We're just in the content vibe. We're on content lock down right now.  Kat:                There's a man on this live stream, sorry Pete, to just draw attention to you. But the reason is, you've got to Patrick's group Entrepreneurs Players Club. So far you're the only person that potentially qualifies to be in the group.  Patrick:            Potentially a member. Kat:                Potentially, because he has - Patrick:            There's rules. Kat:                Well, the rules are, you've got to be, think like a person for true success.  Patrick:            You do. Kat:                But you should go join his group and watch the bad ass live stream we just dropped in there.  Patrick:            If you're from here, you're a bad mother fucker, so yeah, you should go there. Kat:                He's definitely going to be in your group. He'll be a perfect person to be in there. Patrick:            No trolls, Brandon. I know you'll eventually be on here and watching this. Kat:                [You know my story by now 00:05:05]. Pass me that drink. Kat:                Okay, so let's ... This is going to be a super cool live stream, you know that, about how ... although there's too many elements to how this came about. But I'm going to tell the Alexa story because it's very relevant and because weirdly enough, you don't know it. Probably you should know this story. Kat:                So Alexa I met in person, maybe two years ago ... It would have been not too long after we met, actually. I think it was like a month or two after we met. In fact, I think it was one of the same trips where I first came and stayed with you at your old apartment. So end of 2016, I think it was on the exact same trip that I met Alexa in person at a party in the Hollywood Hills, at [Reagan's 00:05:39] house, actually. Kat:                Alexa walked into the room and I was just, who is this woman? Because she had that presence, you know when a woman's really owning who she is and she truly doesn't give a fuck and she's so grounded in who she is. It was an intimidating ... Okay, but I don't feel that way, thank you though. That was awesome. It felt slightly intimidating to me, I was like holy shit, this woman is amazing and I'm fascinated by her and a little scared for some reason, because she's so ... just this incredible energy. Kat:                Anyway it was a big party, but the party ended and Alexa was one of three or four people who ended up hanging out well into the hours. We were all sitting around my left over Whole Foods Salmon and kale salad at 2:00 A.M. in the morning just having a conversation. I connected with Alexa on Facebook and then she started to write these pieces about basically love and sex. There's her Facebook group, you definitely want to part of that. Actually be in Alexa's group, I think you would enjoy it a lot. She started to write these blog posts that were 2000 word posts. Firstly, I'm like, wow, somebody else is doing what I do. Then when I read her stuff, I was, holy shit, this woman is freaking messaging from the heart. But she was writing about sex, really full on stuff that people don't go around saying on Facebook firstly, except Alexa does. I think it was a photo of her in her lingerie in the bathtub, the whole thing was just fascinating. Patrick:            Fifty shades of Grey stuff. Kat:                They were more like really raw stories about, I guess her stories and journey and lessons that she'd had to learn about herself and about life, through relationships and sex. Just starting to recognise that there's something inside of me that feels like I don't want to do it the normal way. Then playing around with that stuff. She had a call to action at the end. I think it was one of her first calls to action that she did for this business. I reached out and I became a private client straight away. It only a few months after I left my marriage. I was really in a place where I actually was, I don't know what dating even means. I don't know how to date, I don't what that is. What do you do on a date? I'd been in a long term relationships for 15 years.  Kat:                I felt like I definitely wasn't happy in my marriage, also the whole way through both of my marriages, I always kind of felt like I don't really think I agree with this monogamy thing. But as you're growing up, especially the Christian upbringing, you kind of push those thoughts aside. I remember one time saying to my first husband, actually I read an article about couples who live separately, but they still have commitment to each other, but they just do life separately and then they come together when they want to. I was, "That's fucking awesome, that's how it should be." I said it to him and he was pretty shitty at me about it. He was kind of hurt or offended or whatever. So I was, "Huh, I think it sounds like a good idea.", right?  Kat:                that was years ago. Even all the way through my second marriage, it wasn't I was going out and looking at other guys. It was more just that on a fundamental level, I was not really sure if this is what I want, if this agrees with me. Yeah, so the thoughts were there. Then coming to Alexa's phone, and I can still remember our first coaching call together. She was like, "Well, what do you want? What do you actually want from a relationship or from sex as well." I was kind of like ... it was like I never thought about that before. It was kind of revolutionary to me that you could think about what you want and make it go. Because, I guess, assumed that you just get what you get, right? Which is so funny, I know, considering what I teach and preach in business. But I just hadn't connected the dots.  Kat:                Alexa had me do, one of the first things she had me do, I think we did it live together of our first Skype call ... Actually, I should give this to you, I can't believe I haven't given this to you, BDSM test. So I go to BDSM test, which is a free online test, and you figure out your sexual preferences, and it gives you a cool little survey that tells you what you're into. So it came up, I think, 98% non-monogamous came back on my results.  Patrick:            98%.  Kat:                98% ... My desire is that 98% of me believes in non-monogamy. It was one of my highest rankings, I think it was in my top three. The other one was to do with bondage. Anyway, I noticed some other stuff in there, and there's some really weird stuff on that questionnaire. It's just some stuff - Patrick:            Do you like being tied up? Do you like - Kat:                It was more like are you into ponies and stuff like that on the test. Patrick:            Whoa.  Kat:                It had everything that - Patrick:            A little pony play? Kat:                But I got identified as a rope bunny, which means I want to be tied up and - Patrick:            You said rope bunny? Kat:                That's what it's called, a rope bunny. Right, I can't believe I've never sent you this test. We'll do the test. Patrick:            Mine would blow up, it'd be all fucked up.  Kat:                That's the point, right? The point is to own who you are. So Alexa taught me to own who I am. She also taught me to own what I wanted and what I desired, even if it felt kind of crazy or out there, right? So that, we coached for some period of time, but obviously I got into her Facebook group, and in The Kaleidoscope, it's just a normal everyday conversation for me now. That everyday I'm talking about open relationships or different kinds of relationships, monogamous, non-monogamous, whatever people are into. All different sort of sex and love stuff as well. I guess the point of that is before we kind of go into what we're going to talk about, which we have no idea what it is. Patrick:            We don't even. Kat:                we haven't planned it. Patrick:            Nothing. Kat:                Of course not.  Kat:                The point of that story is, well this woman really has impacted me a lot. Because she taught me I have permission to have what I want. I don't have to fit into the conventional norms in the relationship area. But also taught me something which took me longer to figure out. Even though she taught me from the start, but it took me until pretty recently to figure out, which is to actually be okay with owning all that I am with the men in my life, right? And to say what I actually think, speak what's on my mind, speak my truth and be unattached to the outcome of it. Which is exactly what I do in business so I kind of figured some of this stuff out. Then Alexa's voice in my head from when we worked together. And also to totally be open about having that conversation with someone in your life and finding out what they actually want and desire. Kat:                I think that typically in a relationship of any kind, whether it's marriage or it's long term boy-friend girl-friend, or it's whatever it is that you can't really figure out or put a name on. Either way, mostly people aren't talking about it, right? We've been hanging out, hanging out, we've been hanging out in a pretty big way for 18 months, ish, I think. Patrick:            Whoa. Kat:                And we never talked about this until Sunday last week. Which is roughly how this ended up happening. There's a lot I can say here, but you can say something now. Patrick:            Yeah. Shit, you're very ... I guess whoever you talked to, or whatever, must have unstuck some stuff. But you said what's on your mind. If you don't tell people what's on your mind, you don't really know, kind of like you're just going through it. That's just anything with sales, I think, or communication in general. If you don't put it out there and you don't let people know what exactly what's on your mind and exactly what you're looking for, then you won't know. You're just going to kind of just go through the motions and you don't know where you're going to end up. Kat:                Well you're kind of living in fear and you're living in doubt and uncertainty. You're not giving yourself permission to be you. Also if you don't ask for what you want, you're not going to get it, that's for sure. If you do ask for what you want, then at least you don't know what's going to happen, but you open up a conversation, and, of course, you can find what the other person wants as well, right. Which sounds revolutionary fucking idea. Oh my god, imagine asking somebody what they actually want. Kat:                Well maybe there's people out there who are naturally doing this, but for me, it's been this kind of ... Like navigating relationships and dating since becoming single, for the first maybe six month period, I just felt like I had no fucking clue what I was doing. I was kind of all over the place. Then I noticed I was definitely in a fear mentality. I was worrying about how to be engaging. It's like going on a live stream and worrying about how to be engaging. I was over thinking every fucking thing. Like for sure, I sent you so many messages where I probably spent two ... I can remember a message that I literally spent two weeks thinking about and Alexa coached me on the actual message. Actually what it comes down to, was I was scared to just say what I was thinking or feeling. Kat:                I was doing this in multiple dating situations at the same time. But, as you know, you've been the most important man that I've connected with since becoming single. You've been the only one that's there pretty much the whole way through. And the relationship we have is different because it's a soul level thing, and there's a flow and a soul connection.  Kat:                So I've had dating stuff where I probably wouldn't ... I don't know, it's not got to a point where it's ... this sounds bad, but it's not got to a point to where I care enough to actually go deep into that conversation. But then how we've been, it's got to a point where I do want to have a conversation about this, but I didn't know how to do that. Then I just started saying what I think, which honestly, I find a terrifying thing. And I told him the whole way through, I can't believe I'm saying this. I feel crazy and I feel like this is terrifying, but I'm going to say it anyway. Because I've learned that in business, if I say what I'm thinking and what I'm feeling, I can't screw it up. Because I know and truly believe that, if I say what I want and what I'm thinking, and then if that would completely shut down what we had, then that's how it was meant to be. I just believed that. But if I'm not going to be fully myself, then nothing actually really real anyway. It's not built on the right foundation.  Kat:                So how this live stream came about, only like a week ago, not even a week ago, Patrick said to me "He's quite certain that what I want from a relationship is different from what he want's." And I said, "I'm quite certain we've never talked about that." So maybe we'll talk about it and we jumped on the phone and just kind of spoke about this different way of doing dating or doing relationships where it is unconventional. Where actually both of us realised, and we didn't know this about each other, that we were on the same page as far as not wanting monogamy and just kind of, I guess, still figuring it out. Kat:                I don't know exactly what I really want over the time. I know that right now I definitely don't want monogamy, but I do want to know that I've ... with us, we've got a deep connection that nobody could kind of replace or erase. But it doesn't mean that I want to be tied off from other opportunities. I mean we're not even in the same country most of the time anyhow. But even despite that right? Then also when I think about him sleeping with other women, I'm like that doesn't remotely bother me at all. I'd probably get triggered as fuck if I saw you live streaming all the time with other women. I'd be like what the fuck. Patrick:            That's our thing.  Kat:                So for me it's - Patrick:            I don't of anybody that I can ... I don't know if any ... Of course I have other women in my life, and I just, [I Am 00:16:24] is a soul connection with Kat and I don't know if anything that ... I don't really have the same conversations that I have with you. That's nice, you know there are people out there, that I'm sure that I can have a deep conversation with and things. But typically speaking - Kat:                And fun. Patrick:            Yeah, it's just having fun and all that. It's a good time and as a man that's just what you do. But from my - Kat:                But it's not just as a man, that's the whole point. Because that's what I want as well, right?  Patrick:            Exactly, yeah, yeah.  Kat:                And particularly by the way, driven ambitious women like me, typically have an insanely high desire for all things in life, including sex. It's definitely not just a man thing.  Patrick:            I don't get ... I read your posts and everything like that, so I see your other stuff that you talk about as well and stuff like that. I don't have any kind of any bad feelings or anything about any of that stuff. I read, actually I get ... I'm happy that you're experiencing life, and that that's what you enjoy doing, I'm happy. When you sent me the messages when we first kind of talked about all this stuff - Kat:                When we started having these open conversations, which was like December and just started laying stuff out.  Patrick:            Yeah. I didn't really mind it at all. You know, like if you know that guys stand for ... We're not scared of anything like that, it actually helped me out as far as to figure out kind of what I'm really looking for. As far as a deeper connection goes. Because typically it's just been one of those things where I've been going through the motions. Obviously it's hard to find people on my level mentally thinking. Kat:                Same.  Patrick:            To have a great conversation where we just sit there and we're back and forth most of the time. Kat:                We're just total flow when we're ... We met through Brian Schuman, this is easy to figure out, it's not a secret. Brian's best friend, Patrick, that's how I met him, right? It was a hook up, right? We slept together and the next day I left Dallas and I was like, "oh cool, you know, awesome, and I'm probably never going to speak to that guy again." Then somehow we got to messaging, and we met up again a month later. I remember that second time, I was like, "Oh cool, this is going to be fun. This guy is going to drive out from Dallas to Austin to see me. That's kind of cool, it's a decent trip." And I was just expecting to have a fun time. Kat:                Then it was when we were speaking, we were in the bar that day, in the afternoon, having margaritas and you were talking about your purpose and your wire. I can remember sitting there and just being, "Oh, fuck, I thought this guy was ..." whatever that I categorised you as, at least in my head. Now I'm like, "Oh." And I remember thinking I feel like I could really develop feeling for this person. That's there's something there where it's going to be ... I've not heard anybody else speak like that, to this day, it's like I can't have this conversation with any other man in my life, past or present. It's just not been there before where it's total flow. How many other times when you're hanging out, and actually we haven't seen each other since October, and i just got back here yesterday. Today we've largely done content generally all day long. I'm like, "Well this is exactly what I write in my journal. That I want an amazing man in my life."  Kat:                But specifically I have written that I want kind of one key guy that's the main guy that I care about and that I have a deeper connection with and that it's different and it is that soul connection. I've written I want to do funny live streams together and I want to tear shit up on the internet. I want to do all the things that flow for me. That's what we have and it can't be replaced. When I'm not here or we don't speak all the time or whatever, I think about you being with other women, I'm like, whatever, because it doesn't ... Nothing can replace what we have, oh my god, it's not possible, it's just not possible. Because it's something that's not about us getting along or spending time together and building on the relationship because we spent time together. It's because it's fundamental stuff there that's just kind of an unbreakable bond.  Patrick:            Yeah, I told you, when you told me I was something, "Oh man." Now, it's fucked up because I'm thinking, and I've told you, yeah this kind of fucks things up or whatever, but I'm thinking, well I don't really want you to go. I don't to lose our relationship that we have. This is more than enough, I like it, and I don't want anything to mess it up. Even thinking about just you being in other relationships, I don't ... That's not what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about that we maintain our connection that we have as it is.  Kat:                Exactly.  Patrick:            To me it's just ... We already covered some things as far as talking more and things like that. But obviously we're both super fucking busy. Kat:                Yeah, but it's also we had boundaries up or walls up that have now kind of come down a lot. Even just unloading this last one week. Because literally Saturday last week, he messaged me saying we're not going to see each anymore, at all, right? Patrick:            Yeah.  Kat:                So, how did that work out. Really, because we hadn't communicated about it and you had basically an assumption or expectation that what I wanted was a white wedding and a conventional relationship, I think. You were kind of that's not what I want so we have to stop. "This has to stop because it's just going to end up fucked up. I'm not going to be able to give you what you want or whatever. I know that what you want from a relationship is different." I was coming pretty hard. I was saying shit that you don't just go around saying to people. It was just, "I'm just going to tell you exactly what I think." I'm writing him fucking 4000 word essays on a Facebook message.  Kat:                You think my blogs are long, you should see the stuff he has to read. I'm just, right, this is what I think, these are all my thoughts, this is all the crazy shit inside my head that I definitely probably shouldn't tell you, but I'm going to tell you anyway. It was pretty full on. The whole way through I was, I think it's pretty amazing that you didn't totally be, holy shit, I've got to get away from this chick, this is crazy. That didn't happen, instead ... Well we were communicating, actually, in a pretty good way. But it was kind of communicating with a guard up and just an assumption of what the other person thought or wanted. Instead of just talking about it. Kat:                It sounds so silly, but for me, I don't know about you, but for me, it literally never occurred to me. I knew that ... I talk about this everyday with Alexa and everyone in the group that I don't want monogamy, but it never ever occurred to me that you would feel that way. I just never thought about it, or I never asked, right? How silly is it, right? You can be spending time in developing - Patrick:            Communication breaking down or whatever. [crosstalk 00:22:41] Kat:                We just never thought about it. But I think it's also is where we started was super casual and it was kind of just hooking up and then it quickly felt like, well, there's more to it than that. But then for me at least, I was, this is kind of scary. I'm not going to go around saying what I actually think. Because that would be embarrassing and you feel to vulnerable, right? And you don't feel safe.  Kat:                How I got to a point where I started saying everything I think. Massive essay length manner for several months now, was I just decided, well hang on, if I just started saying what I actually think and what I'm feeling and what I want, and it results in us completely breaking apart, then that would be what was meant to happen. Because ultimately why would I want to build on something with somebody where I can't just fully be myself. And even, this kind of made me feel like that, then I was really happy. Kat:                Like the other day we where on the phone, and you'd said you'd read that blog that I wrote about the guy that I met in Santa Monica last week. I put that blog here in the daily ass kicker group. I post this shit, I know he's in this group, I know he read all my content. I do think about that when I post stuff about other guys. I always feel like maybe I won't say that because I feel like I've go to guard myself. The reason I post it anyways, because I'm that's the message that's coming me to post, so I'm not going to act out of fear. It would be a fear energy if I didn't post that blog. I'm going to post the blog, I know he's going to read it. We normally wouldn't talk about it. Then we mentioned the other night on the phone and you were, "I read that blog." I was kind of ... then you were, "And I just felt really happy for you." That's perfect, because our connection is not just sex, anyway, how is that a thing. Patrick:            Yeah. I like to see that you were experiencing life. That's what I try to do when I go out. To find that something like that passion and everything that you might just run into in the moment. Because that's what we're supposed to do.  Kat:                Right, you should get to respond to the moment. Patrick:            You should, and you should milk the ecstasy of the moment. You should get whatever you can out of the moment that's meant for you to experience. That's totally yours to experience, that's nobody can take that away from you. You should do what life or whatever the universe is providing for you at that moment. Kat:                You get to have it all, you do. Alexa says, "A connection doesn't mean wedding bells." Of course not, right? That's if people want to get married, they can get married. But I know for sure, both times when I got married, the main driving force was I felt like then I'm kind of safe, or I've accomplished what I'm supposed to accomplish. I didn't get married because my desire is to marry this person. It was this person might potentially be the right person and I should get married because  otherwise ... The first one, honestly, was because I felt guilty about having sex outside of marriage. Just my conditioning and my upbringing, that's the main reason I got married.  Kat:                Then the second time was fear. It was feeling like maybe I won't ever find someone else who loves me. Maybe, this is how it should have to be. I was 27 and I'm going to have to think about kids. There was so much fucked up shit that went into that. There was love there as well, I'm not saying that. But I didn't get married because I was like, I've got to get married, my soul, what would fulfil it? Marriage, my soul is to get married, no that is not something remotely that connects to soul. It was more an idea or concept. I'm not saying ... I'm not anti-marriage for people who want to get married. But yeah, yes, you're only on the planet for a very short time.  Kat:                I mentioned this to friends at dinner in New York the other night about this non-monogamous concept. Actually one of my friends who's there, he married, but they've been non-monogamous in their relationship the whole time. He's in his 40's now. He was, Well, the main thing, and Alexa maybe you can comment on this, but the main thing is if you're going to be in any kind of non-monogamous relationship, communication and honesty, right? Just being honest about what you actually both want. I think that's just the same as any other thing in life. Business stuff, client stuff, all of it. If you're not going to just say what you want, well you're not going to freaking get it. But also you're going to live in fear and uncertainty.  Patrick:            Also, you're talking different styles and everything, it's a totally different set up. What we have is a totally different set up than anybody that most people would have. Just like - Kat:                Right. You can't put a label on it. Patrick:            No, it's just like a ... This to me is like ... That's why I was thinking how I define a relationship is totally different than what I was thinking that you had. So we had that break down.  Kat:                Yeah, literally on Monday or Sunday last week. Patrick:            Yeah. Kat:                I just thought it was the funniest thing ever.  Patrick:            I'm not - Kat:                You're like, "I'm very certain that you want different things." I'm like, "I'm very certain that we've never talked about it." Patrick:            It's that point when I saw that ... What I'm thinking is I have the best thing going. [inaudible 00:27:24]. I'm like, cool, that's great, what we have. I'm thinking you're thinking on the same page. You're thinking the same page as we see each other occasionally, you come into town, hang out and just have a great time. Then it's back to what we do. So that was, we just connect over we talk on the internet and everything. It was - Kat:                What did I miss? We're not going to redo the whole conversation for you. You can watch the - Patrick:            You've got to back up. Kat:                But I had started a lot of stuff indicating I wanted more, I felt like there should be more. And I was getting kind of ... It was like a slight scary vibe on my behalf, right? Then after, it [inaudible 00:28:05] there for a while like we were just completely not even hang out anymore at all. Then I started really tuning into myself. What do I actually want here, what am I trying to get? What am I actually asking for if I be honest with myself? Then I realised what I want is I want to feel more connection and communication. So that's what we spoke about. That's really what I want. I just want to ... I guess what I also wanted was, I kind of had that wall up for the first year or whatever, where I was "Am I crazy, am I making up how deep this connection is." And I thought I was just making it up and I wanted that validation. Patrick:            I thought, what I was thinking this is mother fucking Kat, I'm not going to sit there and take up all her time on the damn message all day. I was ... in the message room. Kat:                I'm like, "Why doesn't he message me more often, why don't we communicate?" I would be, "I don't think he even likes me." Then we'd hang out together, because I'd come to America. I would be, "There's no fucking way I'm going to Texas." Somehow I'd always end up in Texas, right? It was kind of this funny routine that I had. Every time that I come here where I would tell myself I'm not going. I'm going to stop whatever this thing is because I'm just making it up. It's probably just a hook up for him, that's what I was thinking in my head. And I think we have this deep soul connection, but maybe it's not real, because ... the guards were up, we weren't talking about it. I was scared at the even idea of talking about it. If you would have told me six months ago that I'd be doing this live stream, I would doing this live stream, I'd be "That's impossible, there's no fucking way."  Kat:                I thought I had to maintain, not professional, but it's like when you're trying to be professional in business. I was trying to play it cool, but it just resulted in me kind being obsessive and thinking about it all the time in my head. Then we'd come together and just have this flow connection that is undeniable. Then I'd leave or we'd go our separate ways. Then we wouldn't really talk, at all. I would be just driving myself crazy. And honestly every other guy I've dated, well if I do have a good time, I always have a good time in that moment. It's a different thing though, right? It's a different kind of feeling. That's awesome and I love and appreciate it, but then I would still always be thinking about our connection. Kat:                Then I spent probably all of last year going around in circles in my head going, "Is this a real connection, this soul connection that I fell, or am I just, I don't know, am I trying to latch onto something here? Am I trying to invent it into something?" Then though there'd be, obviously some of the things you said as well, where I'm, "I'm fucking right, I know that it's a real connection." And I know that, because I feel that anyhow. Kat:                Then kind of, for me, all these conversations we'd been having for now, months, since before Christmas, that was, I got to a point like I said to you in the first massive epic letter. I got to a point where this is driving me crazy. It's hanging over me all the time. I just need to know. I wrote him this big letter and it was kind of blunt and it was very full on. And I said at the start, "Warning, this is going to be intense." And I was right. "I don't know what you feel, but this is what I feel." And kind of went through it all. Kat:                Then at the end, I said, "Well, I guess now you're going to think I'm crazy and we'll never speak again. Or maybe we talk about it. Or you feel the same way or whatever. But at least I put it out there." And it kind of started this process which took, I guess a few months for us to really communicate openly with each other. But as far as what I wanted, what I figured out after we spoke, or even before we spoke on the phone, about it last week, was I wanted to know that the connection was real. I wanted to know I wasn't making shit up inside my head. That was doing [inaudible 00:31:37] all year last year, because we didn't talk about it properly at all. And i wanted more connection and communication. I don't come to the U.S. more than every few months anyway at the moment.  Kat:                But even if I lived here, I wouldn't want to live together. I wouldn't want an exclusive relationship. I'd want if I lived in the U.S., I want probably to spend more time together, because I'm here. But it would be only ever when it flows and when it feels right. I don't a relationship of any kind where it feels like there's an obligation that you've got to spend time with each other. It should only be when it flows. Kat:                But yeah, the communication thing, the whole time I felt like you don't really want to talk to me. Then when we talked abut it, you're "Oh, I didn't want to bother you." I'm, "How did we not talk about this a long time ago." Patrick:            She says, "Why wouldn't you want monogamy? What happens if either of you meet someone you have a deeper connection with that does want monogamy" I would say that, I'm not going to have monogamy, period, like that. I might have, say girlfriends or whatever like that, that we do have a deep connection with. But they're going to deal with a relationship with Kat. They're going to be cool with what ... I'm going to be upfront and honest ... I'm always upfront and honest to women. I don't mind at all to tell them I have girlfriends, you know what I mean. I - Kat:                Multiple. Patrick:            Yeah, in my life. Either take it or leave it, that's fine. That doesn't matter to me, not one bit. Because that's just me being as honest as I possibly fucking can. The reactions, 99% of them are always ... some of them are pissed off about that, you know what I mean? "Oh my god, I can't believe it." Or say something like that. It's all good. Generally people come around, "Oh, okay, I get what you're saying. But this is kind of a pop on the the head." Kat:                It's a conditioning thing though. I don't know, it's hard for me to understand this, because most who I know are pretty non ... well they're either non-monogamous or they're very open to that. But I guess I hang around with an exceptional different kind of a woman. So I imagine, or I think that most women out there wouldn't emotionally maybe be able to cope with that. Or they feel that they can't, because they feel like they need their validation from the man. Whereas, I felt I definitely was seeking validation as well from a man, truthfully, after I became single. Then that's been a big part of my process of what I've worked through to where I got to a point where I was, "I get everything I need from me, inside of me." Patrick:            Right. Kat:                I'm not giving ... Well, I'm happy when I'm with him, and I'm having a great time. But that's not what provides me with my happiness. I'm not happy because I have Patrick in my life, or because I come here. That's not, "Oh, good, I some validation, or got an injection of happiness or whatever, or love." Or something like that. That's all kind of part of it, but I give all that stuff to me, I'm in love because I choose to be in love, even of myself. Then when I add love, romance, whatever it is on top of that, then that's purely coming from a place of, well because I desire it, and because it there and I can have it. But it's not completing me. I'm not being completed by somebody or something outside of me.  Kat:                So to me that feels really healthy, as far as that question. My answer to that question about what if you met somebody else, currently the way I feel is I can't imagine meeting somebody else who I would have this level of soul connection with. But I also know that it's possible, right? I'm not going to sit here and say that's not possible, anything is possible. That's how I feel right now. I feel that this is a very rare connection. Who else am I going to sit here with and do live streams all day. Also the conversations that we have all the time. Just kind of a deep understanding of each other and acceptance. So it feels like I can't imagine that happening. And I feel kind of cocky about the fact that I can't imagine you meeting another woman who you have this level of connection with. Patrick:            Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm pretty much a bad mother fucker, so you know, if meet a guy like [crosstalk 00:35:41]. Kat:                But I feel cocky about it the other way around. I'm like, as if you're going to be able to have that level of conversation with another woman. But then I also do understand that of course that could happen, right? I'm not holding on to it, I'm not attached to it. It is what it is right now.  Patrick:            Because you're going to be totally happy and in love with your life no matter what. Kat:                Exactly. Patrick:            You're in love with your life. Because you're in love with your life.  Kat:                And with my own self. Patrick:            Right.  Kat:                Right. So whatever shifts or grows over time, whatever it ends up being or not being, we'll be exactly perfect tomorrow. We might grow closer together or we might ultimately drift apart. But either I've got what I need inside of me, you've got what you need inside of you. We're not trying to get that from each other.  Patrick:            No. Kat:                So it just feels like, for me it feels like the best connection I've ever had. Patrick:            Like a roll over. Kat:                Because previously my serious relationship long term connections that I had, were not based on that foundation. So there was always fear, there was always worry of some kind and it was toxic or it was co-dependent, or it got into manipulation or abuse or whatever. I'm just not available for that anymore. Obviously coming through all that, you get to where you're like, "Oh my god." In my twenties or whatever age, the end goal was marriage and then I thought I'm safe. Then you get married, and you're not fucking safe, right? Patrick:            Right.  Kat:                Because you didn't build on the right foundation or you didn't understand these things and you were looking for something outside of yourself. Now I'm so safe, emotionally. With or without Patrick in my life. And I want him in my life and that's what we spoke about. We had to really hash it out. We were like, he was like, "We're going to stop talking. We're going to stop hanging out. Let's be friends, but not physical." I'm like, "Good luck with that." So that's not going to happen. But then we talked it out and it was this realisation of ... My god, I totally lost my train of thought. What was I going to say? Something about the safely thing. What was I just saying?  Patrick:            Gotta go back. Kat:                Oh, it was a good point as well.  Patrick:            Have to go back to one part you were thinking about then just ... Kat:                No, because then I left you those audios on Sunday and you kind of had been talking to me for a little bit. Then we talked a little bit, but you were, "No, can't work, it's not going to work." Then I left you audios. "At the end of the day what i really want is I just want you in my life. I don't want to lose you out of my life." Patrick:            No.  Kat:                "And I do want more communication. Right? Not from a neediness point of view, more because it's one of the things I value most in my life is our communication. So why would I not want that more?" Then once I said that, then came back to me and, "I don't want to lose you out of my life either." Then we had a massive phone call and hashed it out. Now basically here we are.  Kat:                That's pretty much the whole story. Patrick:            Here we are. Kat:                That's the whole story, you're caught up.  Patrick:            You're caught up now. You're brought up to speed everybody.  Kat:                We missed some comments. I don't know, what do you want to add to that. I'm going to look at the comments here. Patrick:            Well, I came out of a bad relationship back in 2014, I think it was. Huge, bad relationship where I was constantly trying to get so many things. I was trying to ... I based so much of my life around the relationship. I'm just the kind of guy that goes all in on everything thing that I do. And I thought that, hell I wasn't even trying to make that happen, but I did, and it ended up becoming something that I just went all in on and I shouldn't have. It ended up terrible because you can't really do that anyways in a relationship without ... It's better when there's a certain kind of chemistry that you have to have. Especially you guys know if the guy is needy as fuck that it's a very huge turn off, right? So it ended up things getting fucked up that way.  Patrick:            so anyways, things did get fucked up and I went on a rebound with another chick and I did the same exact thing. Went right back off into being needy again and got tore up again on that. So I was coming off a bad relationship and then finally just figured out, just work those things out in my head. So basically I was, I don't know where the fuck I'm trying to go with this, but I'm trying to come at y'all as the way the guy thinks. Sometimes you'll see this and as far as me putting all my chips in those bags, that's kind of like what lead me to totally pull myself out of that.  Patrick:            Actually that relationship, those two relationships are what kind of set me in pace to quit my job and start working towards something greater in my life. Because I just realised, yeah, this is where I'm trying to go with this. Then I realised life isn't meant to just fucking put all of your chips into a relationship. Kat:                And think it's going to save you. Patrick:            And think it's going to save you. And that goes for that job, or that goes for anything in your life. It's not meant for you to do that. It's meant for you to put all your ... hedge all your bets on your self. Kat:                Right, I was going to say that exact line. Patrick:            Yeah, cool. Just go all in on yourself and just totally go in on that and then the rest of that shit is going to come to you when you do that. It might not be what you were thinking, because that's certainly had in my mind when these other relationships was, maybe a wedding and all this stuff. I'm thinking that's what I was thinking, picket fence and all that stuff. And then it doesn't happen like that, but there's so much other stuff out there that comes along and it's just like, boom. It's exactly the way you should be living your life. Patrick:            The way I think about life is, I've got my theory about life and it's just different than what everybody thinks. It's not religious or anything like that. But basically, I kind of, this is just a philosophy that I have, that I live by. It's my own personal philosophy, this is how I look through the lens of the world. The lens of the world is this, that we have probably been here, already, before. Human beings have probably been on this planet before. And because we just happen to be in the best time living, and the best time possible, right? Just everything is so easy. Communication is so easy. We can talk into a camera and money will flow back to you. If you communicate, you will succeed. We live in the easiest time, the easiest time, the easiest time and we're right on the cusp of something like artificial intelligence coming around and being a supercomputer, super intelligence, it's almost here, but it's not quite.  Patrick:            So a lot of scientists believe that we're probably ... We've probably already been here before, and we probably just now we're jacked in because we can live forever. And we probably just jack in and live this life over and over again without the memory of actually being immortal. Because if you're immortal, right, you're going to live forever and it's going to get very boring, right? If you play the game over and over again on god mode, then you're going to get bored. So my personal philosophy is that we probably just jacked into this thing and we erase our memories, but we make it just hard enough to live, right? Just hard enough to where ... We put the hard stuff in there to go through and to make it to where we enjoy the better times.  Patrick:            So that's my personal philosophy about life and I think that it doesn't always end up where you're thinking. It's designed to switch you up and throw you off track. And you're designed to go through these hardships so when you find something great and the stuff really comes at you and surprises you, and you just ... and that way you can just enjoy this. And it's milking the ecstasy of every single moment, right. The people that come into your life. It just totally trips you up and it's all designed to where you are just having ... you are obtaining happiness, true happiness. Happiness is overcoming resistance. Kat:                It's also being in the moment and not being attached to the moment or to what comes after the moment, right?  Patrick:            Yeah. Kat:                Attachment is such a huge thing in relationships and in business and in life. Even all the stuff I just shared, and I just gave a very brief overview of it, obviously. But I was getting into pretty normal conditioned patterns of feeling a need for attachment or some kind of proof or something like that. It was such a great learning process for me, even way back.  Kat:                I'll give you an example, which I've told you this, but I don't know if you remember this. But in December after we first met, so over a year ago, the previous December, you said you were going to come to Austin that second time when I was in Austin. Then you didn't end up coming. You got a lot of work and stuff in business. I was kind shocked, because I knew already that we had this connection. And I was kind of pissed, because I was, "I'm here from Australia, and you can't come to Austin." I was kind of shitty. But I was really needy about, right. It's how I felt inside of myself. Kat:                So then the next morning, went to yoga, as I do, obviously. I went into the Bikram yoga class and I was, right, I set myself and intension, which is how I figure out a lot of stuff in my life. I thought by the end of this class, I'm going to clear this in my head and I'm going to understand it. I remember half way through that class, this was ages ago, and it was pretty early on in our connection anyhow. But I remember half way through the class being, holy shit, that's such a massive gift that you didn't come. Because it highlighted for me that I was looking for my self worth to be validated from you, from a man. I just acknowledged it and completely [inaudible 00:44:58] what it is. I was, "Why did I get so upset about that? Why was I so upset. It's not like we had any promises between us or anything like that."  Kat:                But I was just really upset. I had to acknowledge and I recognised it's all my own self worth shit. Which is totally fine, I'm compassionate about myself for that, because I'd been in a long term marriage that wasn't working and my self worth was shot to pieces in that area. So I was, "Wow, it's so good that you didn't come, because it gave me the opportunity to learn this lesson that I was looking for my self worth to be grounded to me by somebody else."  Kat:                That's not possible, when you want somebody else to give you self worth or happiness or even love, obviously then you're continuously saying I don't have that inside of me. Somebody else has got to provide that for me. Then I'll know I'm safe. Then I'll know I'm good enough. Then I'll know I'm worthy of love and all those sort of things.  Kat:                I ended up, of course, I turned it into a programme. I didn't talk about us. But I created a four week programme out of it, called - Patrick:            Where's my cut? Kat:                For real, I made like 50K on that straightway. I launched it that day. I came out of the yoga studio, I was, "I'm on fucking fire." I remember walking through the streets, I was live streaming. I'm like right, I'm going to teach you about manifestation, and that when you put something outside of you, and you put it up on a pedestal, and you say, "when I have that" a million dollars, cool car, person who says they love me, whatever it is. "When I have that, then I'm safe, then I'm good enough, then I'm successful, then I'm worthy." You put it on a pedestal like that, you will never get it. Because you're always saying that this is not available to me from the inside me.  Kat:                Even if in this situation, even if you have come along. Even if I had have him saying from day one, "Oh, I love you, and you're safe and I'll take care of you ..." or whatever. There would have always been fear there. Because I knew that, that's me attaching it to somebody else. And you can't do that. You can't control another person and why would you want to. So that was only one incident, there were many times along the way where I was driving myself crazy with my own stuff. It just helped me to process and grow and recognise all my patterns were I was, "Oh, my god, wow, I was looking for this."  Kat:                Even moments where i was, should I say this on a message?  Patrick:            Thank you.  Kat:                Should I say this on a message, should I send a text message saying  ... that time when I had to come to Dallas when Regan and were speaking, right? Patrick:            Yeah. Kat:                I honestly spent two weeks during my heading about whether or not I should even message you that I'm coming. And then I basically pestered Alexa about it. I made a script for this text message. For real. I was what do I say that I don't scare this guy off me. Now I'm like, I can't believe I would have been, what if I scare a guy off? Because whatever. What if I be myself and either way is fine. But I just wasn't at that point yet, so it's totally fine.  Kat:                But Alexa was, "You just ask yourself what you're actually feeling, then say that." I was, minds blown, I never thought of that idea before. Then I did. I'm, "Hey, I'm coming to Dallas, we should have a coffee." So carefully crafted, took me two weeks. But I was living from fear and I was living ... And then I ended up staying with you for like a week on that trip. So it worked out quite well. But the point is, I just let go of all that a while back now. And I've continued to let go of it, and I continued to understand it and continued to notice my patterns, right? Kat:                Even always, just never-endingly in every area of my life. But I think the biggest shift that I had in this area, and could have probably never had this shift this far without what we have. Is just to realise that, I'm not going to get anything and I don't want to desire anything from another person, right? Not a romantic person, not a client, not a friend, not my kids, nobody. I don't get that from anyone else. So even if we had have finished our journey already, it would have been nothing but massive growth from that experience over this past year or so. The universe has your back. Kat:                So Alexa asked a question that I'm sorry to say, we can't answer, because we've never spoke about that. Now are you going to be annoyed at me about that. So I'm going to get in trouble, but it's a good point. She says ... Can you hang on; she wanted us to say what are rules are sexually around physical safety, like when sleeping with multiple people? Actually we haven't discussed that, I'm sorry. That shouldn't, yeah [inaudible 00:49:18]. Patrick:            I don't know, rules, like safety words? Kat:                She means hygienically. [crosstalk 00:49:23]. We'll talk about it off camera. Patrick:            That's always a worry, yeah. Kat:                But since you ask the question, I'm just acknowledging it. It's a great opportunity for everybody. Patrick:            That's totally a chick question, yeah. Kat:                It a great opportunity. So Alexa she's a wise one.  Kat:                I don't know, what else? I think that's a lot of it. I just think it's about being okay with saying what you want and what you feel. But also being okay with whatever outcome comes of that. That's ultimately how I kind of, I guess, gradually grew inside of me to a place where I can now say anything to him and I will, I'll say what I'm thinking or feeling and I'll say it ... It still feels scary in the moment, if I'm saying something that's really vulnerable. But I really can say it without attachment. Because I'm at the end of the day - Patrick:            She said, "Watch you both get uncomfortable." I'm not uncomfortable at all. So just so you know. Kat:                She means about the physical sex thing. Patrick:            But my thing is, just so ... it's all good, I can talk, I don't mind. I get myself tested regularly. One of the reasons I do is because I definitely have a lot of respect for Kat and I don't want to do anything to fuck with her shit. You know what I mean?  Kat:                I do. [crosstalk 00:50:41] tested on. Patrick:            It's just something that every person should do anyways if you're sexually active.  Kat:                Your body language [inaudible 00:50:49].  Patrick:            You know what I mean? Kat:                All those [crosstalk 00:50:52] should get tested regularly if you're sexually active. Patrick:            Yeah, for sure. Kat:                I was going to say something.  Kat:                Here's one more thing I do want to say about this, right? I think about being safe to be yourself. It's about having a fundamental belief that you can't screw it up being you. One thing that I realised with our connection is, there's actually ... I honestly feel like there's nothing I could say to you that would scrap our connection. Because our connection is a soul connection. Even if we weren't hanging out. That connection is still there to stay. Patrick:            Yeah, for sure. Kat:                You can feel it energetically from when we're not talking or spending time together. So I kind of got to the realisation, probably party because I said a lot of shit to you that would definitely scare most men off. Then I was, "I think I could pretty much say anything to this guy and it's actually not going to ruin our connection, but it might cause us to pull in or out or whatever. But then we actually figure it out. I know you've said that to me a few times, we just figure everything out in the end anyway. But it - Patrick:            Well I'm going through my shit, and you're going through your shit. We're still going through things on the journey. You know what I mean?  Kat:                Right. Patrick:            It's just what it is. Kat:                But it's also, to me, that's representative of a real connection in your life. When you know that, you don't have to worry about how to communicate with that person. You can't fuck up the relationship by being yourself, it's not possible. That's when you know it's a real connection. Rather that something that's based on rules or fear or validation, is like, if I say this, then I'm going to get in trouble. Or if I say this they're going to think I'm a bad person or something like that. Or they're going to be whatever. Instead you realise, and this exactly what I teach in business, if you speak your actual truth, and it's meant to be, whatever it's meant to be. Then it will. And either way is fine. It's like signing up a client, just say what you fucking think. Say what's actually coming through you. If that scares them off, they were never meant to be there in the first place.  Patrick:            Exactly. Kat:                What are going on about? Pull in or out. Patrick:            Sex puns.  Kat:                Anything that we missed? Patrick:            No, I think we got it. They loved it so they're all commenting about it. Kat:                Thank you for watching. It's a pretty raw conversation, I guess. Patrick:            Yeah, I don't really care, I talk. I'll watch all your stuff, so I see ... I watch most of your stuff, so I see what you say and this stuff. I already know you, so you're giving them the 100% real deal. So they know that.  Kat:                It's what we do. Patrick:            Obviously you wouldn't be as popular if you didn't do that, so I've already seen that and know kind of how you think. So it's not a big deal. You'll probably be surprised as I talk more and more on my shit. As I put more of myself out there. You'll probably see some of the same stuff. Kat:                Even more truth coming out.  Patrick:            Yeah.  Kat:                Yep. Patrick:            So yeah, so look forward to it. Kat:                That's the thing, it's about being comfortable being uncomfortable. So much stuff I've published or there's been so muc

This is exactly how I'd start if I were to start from scratch today, start my healthy eating journey - for energy, health, fat loss, vitality and performance. This is how I'd start if I knew nothing about healthy food and nutrition, if I was eating junk and anything and everything I want. This is how I recommend you to start to really be successful, to know your body and your health and understand what works for you and what doesn't and most importantly to experience HOW GOOD YOU COULD FEEL EVERY DAY! 10 steps, I'd take at least a week to master each step. Then I'd add the next one on top. Questions? Want me to talk about and solve your health and performance, weight loss challenges? SHOOT ME AN EMAIL: Angela@CreateYourself.Today Want to ALWAYS know what's new in the world of lean healthy living, nutrition, fitness, weight loss, high-tech health, biohacking? Want to look, feel and perform your best? HERE IS HOW - SUBSCRIBE - bitly.com/abetteryou2018 Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/FoodSchool)

When it's my time to go, I'm going to haunt a few people. The first would be Terry Clifford. Then I'd find Shania. The list goes from there. -Billy 

IN THIS EPISODE Think of the decisions you have made in the past, whether you were really on board or maybe it wasn't such a good decision. Imagine how different things would have been if you hadn't made that decision. All of the time we say "I wish I had done this instead." But I'm a firm believer in no regrets. Instead, let's focus on what you can do today to ensure that you have the best future ever.  How I learned to have my best year ever For me, it's all thanks to Hal Elrold and his Best Year Ever Blueprint. I found my way at this event during a crucial pivot in my business life. I was pivoting from interior design to business coaching and I was feeling doubt, fear, shame, insecurity, uncertaintly and more.  I started asking myself, "Can I really do this? Is this really possible for me?" Then I would argue with that voice and shortly after that the voice of fear would kick in. I was in a spiral. Not only was I struggling with all of these negative emotions within myself, but I was feeling alone because my local community didn't understand my big dreams. It was isolating.   One day, I was listening to Hal Elrod Achieve Your Goals Podcast where he had Dana Malstaff as his guest. I had already read his book the Miracle Morning and connected with him, but this was my first introduction to Dana  from Boss Mom. I felt drawn to them like I knew these are my people. On this particular podcast episode they were talking about his 2nd event coming up and I just knew I had to go. In a moment of just pure faith, I bought a ticket and booked a flight to San Diego. I had never been that far from Michigan or traveled alone before.  Best Year Ever Event With every person I connected with I felt accepted and safe, even in the connections made in the hotel before the event.  I had never been in a place where I felt so at home and like I could actually be my authentic self. Surrounded by hundreds of other successful business owners who were struggling with the same emotions that I was. I had such a shift during that event and found the community that I didn't even know I needed. I don't know that I would be here without that. I am really not sure if I would have been able to show up on video or started this podcast without it. To this day, we still mastermind and collaborate.  How do you have your best year ever? Start with empowering words. Listen to Episode 86 where we talk about 3 empowering statements that will boost your positivity. Be present and mindful with yourself. Really evaluate what it is that you want to be doing and where you are. Take a baby step in the direction of your dream. Gamble on yourself. Take a risk.   Go to the Best Year Ever event. Let's Chat More Head on over to the Facebook Group to get all of my support on anything that you're doing, especially if you need some mindset help. That's my jam!  [bctt tweet="How do you have your best year ever? Empowering words., mindfulness, baby steps and taking risks." username="tonyarineer"] KEY TAKEAWAYS 1:01 I'm a big believer in no regrets and in not regretting the past because you can't change that. It is what it is and it has made you who you are today. But you can change your future. 2:58 You're not Oprah, you know? You're just this little person from Detroit Mi. Pipe down. Then I'd shut that voice down and I would feel uncertain.  6:20 Never in my life had I been immersed in a community that accepted me for me in that way. Never before had I been able to show up without having to put on a mask or having to pretend that I had it all figured out becauseI was in a room of 300 people that were all insanely successful and were all also feeling fear.  8:29 It was really breaking through some of my own blocks in that one event that helped me see my potential and to realize my strengths and tap into who I am. 10:28 When you've identified what's possible and you take one step, my bet is that you're going to win. I'd put all my money on you because those two things are key. Identify what's possible, take a step and as long as you are moving in that direction, nothing will fail you.  EPISODE RESOURCES Hal Elrod's Best Year Ever Blueprint The Profit Party Episode 86 Hang out with us inside our free Facebook Community- where every day is a party!

  Hello! Welcome to GlitterShip episode 47 for September 23, 2017. This is your host, Keffy, and I'm super excited to share this story with you. Today we have a poem by Jes Rausch, "Defining the Shapes of our Selves," and a GlitterShip original, "The Last Spell of the Raven" by Morris Tanafon. This is the last original story from GlitterShip Summer 2017, which you can pick up at glittership.com/buy if you would like to have your own copy. More importantly, however, this means that the Autumn 2017 issue is coming out soon! Jes Rausch lives and writes in Wisconsin, with too many pets and too much beer for company. Nir fiction has appeared or is forthcoming at Strange Horizons, Apex Magazine, and Lethe Press. Find nem not updating nir Twitter @jesrausch. "Defining the Shapes of our Selves" by Jes Rausch   Book One when we reached Fire Nest on Summit, hot sun hanging low in the sky like an egg, biding, the dirt streets were dusty as smoke. So this is what the capitol of the Dragon Lands is like, i said, and, i never dreamt i’d be here, breathe in dust that must once have been the scales of ancients. There, you said, and pointed out a spire among spires, the twisting of another sculpted tail in a sea of swirling tails and horns and There, you said, and interrupted my awe with one of your smiles, man to me. When we reached Fire Nest on Summit, our pouches full of rubies, the aura of crime marinating them to a fine delicacy, we strode down streets dusty with smoke, smoky with the scent of food and sounds and flashes of golds and crimsons. We were here for a reason, a purpose, a journey, and here we were at the door carved of real dragon bone before the set of scale-clad guards, to bargain and banter and barter our way into the deal of a lifetime. Said the guard who stepped forward, He requires men and women meet specific challenges attuned to their natures to pass, and Step this way, to you. When we reached Fire Nest on Summit, you walked through your designated door, and i left behind in your dust, was told to wait when the guard could not determine which frame fit. Said the guard, it is better this way, after all, you cannot meet the challenges without a reason, a purpose, a journey. Book Two When I stepped into the apartment I heard the burble of the fish tank, that constant watery murmur that gives me what little comfort it can. I turn on all the lights today, and a little music too. The curtains already drawn, this little home a sanctuary where I can pee however I want to, and with the door open. Out there in the world deemed real, I can try too hard to talk with coworkers, meet company standards, go by unseen. But here I can make chicken tikka. Chicken tikka doesn’t care who you are. It doesn’t care if you live or die either, so in a way, it is the world deemed real, and here, in my home I can devour it. Book Three when we slid into Io Port 7 dock, powered down, cleared the security scans, and disembarked after five long hours of waiting around in the mess, prisoners in our own ship, i was ready for a bit of fun. Ten months out in a vacuum will do that to you. Chasing odd jobs around stars, snagging a get-rich-quick scheme out of orbit is a tiring way to live. Dull as an old hull, random as a time of death. Our boots made the obligatory clank- clank noise down the corridors, our voices blocked them out. See, i was never free ‘til i reached for a star and grabbed a bucket of rust, made the engines run on sweat and blood and nightmares. See, you can smell the aching shell of it from the inside, but then, you probably never will. i take care choosing a crew who can withstand the raw scent of a being rotting from the inside out, fighting against the lack of friction for all days. When we emerged from the decaying ship, pristine outer hull, and slid ourselves into Io Port 7 dock and down and down the corridors already the rest and relaxation curled its way up to us. Somewhere in the center of port, a band was playing, Venus Colony 3- inspired beats pulsing and ebbing through the artificial grav. Some persistent restaurant owner was preparing dishes from Old Earth, warm smells competing for dominance with the aromas of Orion-inspired cuisine. When we descended into Io Port 7 dock, followed the sounds and smells down to get our access passes from the automated entrance bot, i entered in my name, retinal scan, handprint, voice sample. i completed the three-part questionnaire: reason for visit, profession, personal information. i turned to accept my pass scan, and the bot flashed dismissal. I’m sorry, the cold voice said, but you don’t have the appropriate body mods to legally be permitted to select that gender. I count only two of the required five. END       Morris Tanafon lives in Ohio but still feels like a New Englander. His work has appeared in Crossed Genres and Mythic Delirium and he blogs sporadically at https://gloriousmonsters.wordpress.com     The Last Spell of the Raven by Morris Tanafon     When I was very young, I watched my mother win the Battle of Griefswald. Standing knee-deep in our ornamental pool, she transformed the surface into a picture of Germany, and dripped fire from her hands into the water. I stood with my tutor in the crowd that watched, and did not understand why she gripped my shoulders until they ached, or why the people watching cheered and gasped. I saw the fire snake around the houses, and tiny people running from it. But until I was older I did not understand that it had been real. Nobody talked to me about magic. My father never spoke of it, and my mother believed that I took after my father and had no talent for it. Still, at the age of seven I used it for the first time—a desperate child will reach for any tool. I knew that magic existed, from my mother’s conversations with her friends, and that it could be used to do wonderful things. And I knew that my cat Morrow was dead. So when I was given the body to bury it, I took her out to the backyard instead, and performed my best guess at a spell. The form was foolish, but the intent genuine, and intent was all it needed. Morrow stirred, and my cry of delight caught my mother's attention. She looked from me to the cat, heard five seconds of my babbled explanation, and began screaming. "Galen, you idiot!" She slapped me. "Things that come back are barely alive, and now you've wasted a spell! If you use more than four spells you die, do you want to die?" I began screaming, convinced I was going to drop dead on the spot, and the reborn Morrow added a thin, ugly caterwaul to the din. It was my father who ended the stupid affair, in one of the rare moments he left his study. He scooped up Morrow, plucked me away from my mother, and took us both inside, ignoring my mother's spitting rage. I don't know what she did after that. It didn't matter to me at the time, because my father took me into his study. I had never seen the interior before, and when he put me down I froze in place, afraid I’d break something. He dropped Morrow in my arms; I could feel her tiny, tinny heartbeat against her ribs. She smelled like mothballs and felt like paper-mâché, as if I hugged too tightly I'd crush her. "I have no say in the matter," my father said, "but I suggest you never use magic again." I must have looked ready to start screaming again, because he began speaking quickly—something he never did. "I would never have married Evelyn if I knew she was a magician. In the country I come from, it is despised, for good reason. Who would willingly rip their soul apart?" He sat down, drumming his fingers, and watched me for a minute. I stared back dumbly—I still didn't understand. "There's a story we tell children," he said. "Once, a raven was swallowed by a whale, and inside it he found a little house. There was a beautiful girl there, with a lamp by her side." Morrow scratched my shoulder. I put her down but she stayed by my legs, winding around them. "She told the raven: The lamp is sacred, do not touch it. But every few moments she had to rise and go out the door, for she was the whale's breath." I wanted to ask why the whale's breath was a girl, but my father signaled me to be silent. "And the raven, being arrogant and curious, waited until she was gone and touched the lamp. In an instant it went out, the girl fell down dead, and the whale died too, for the lamp was the whale's soul." I pressed my hands to my chest. "You're not going to die," my father said. "Not if you stop now. But listen—the raven dug its way up through the whale's dead flesh, and found it beached. There were men gathered around. And instead of telling them, 'I meddled with something beautiful and destroyed it', the raven merely cried, 'I slew the whale! I slew the whale!' And he became great among men, but lived a cursed life thenceforward." The meaning was not obvious to a seven-year-old. "Am I cursed?" "All magicians are," my father said flatly, "for that raven, greedy for the power he tasted from the whale's soul, became the first magician. Now go, and think about what I told you." I went, and I did. To this day, that's the longest conversation my father shared with me.   Morrow perished again seven years later, despite my best efforts. I fed her bugs and graveyard dirt and tiny pieces of liver and locked her in my room to prevent her from jumping off a too-high surface and crushing her fragile front legs. But I forgot to lock the door one day, and a maid wildly kicked at the grey shape that appeared in front of her, and that was the end of Morrow. I was angry, but the maid cried and helped me gather up the pieces, and she was very pretty. That, at fourteen, had begun to matter, and I forgave her enough to give her part in the burial service. My mother watched from the window until Morrow was well buried.   When I wove my second spell I knew what I was giving up, and I knew my mother would kill me if she discovered what I’d done. I was to go to university that autumn, and become certified as a magician in service to the Crown, as my mother was—I risked that as well. I thought the price cheap in exchange for a smile from Asuka. Fujimoto Asuka, the ambassador's daughter. We attended the same parties, hated them with the same passion, and exchanged weary looks over the rims of our wineglasses until I finally got up the courage to speak to her. She had come with her father to England to find a magician to change her body's shape. She was born with one wrong for her. We were a good match for that summer—she appreciated my adoring glances and felt kindly toward magicians. I was glad of admiration from one as worldly as her. On the last day of summer, I convinced Asuka to slip away during a party. She didn't take much convincing, and it's a miracle we weren't caught—giggling like schoolchildren and exchanging significant glances anyone could read. Perhaps the other guests were humoring us. We went to the nearby lake, so well-tended it was our ornamental pool writ large, and I took off my shoes. "You asked me how magicians first came to be," I said. "Nobody knows the full history, but I can tell you one story." The pictures I made in the water were not real, but they looked it. Even now, with my regrets, I feel a twinge of pride thinking of the spectacle. I'd studied ravens for months, memorizing how they moved, and drew inspiration for the woman from Asuka; and like any good storyteller, I lied, adding my own spin. I transformed the raven into a man in the last moments and sent him and the whale's breath, hand-in-hand, into the crowd of gaping humans. Their descendants were magicians, I told Asuka. The raven saved the breath-girl at the last moment by lighting the lantern with a piece of his own soul. When I was done, Asuka's eyes glittered with tears. She promised to write to me; but the autumn was cold and long and the mail services from Japan to England not too reliable, and after a few exchanges our talk petered out.   I expected my parents to find out about it, but they never did. Instead, I had to explain to the records officer at Iffley College. Anyone who wished to register as a magician had to give an account of all magic they had used. She made notes as I spoke, and squinted at me as if she could see magic filling me to a certain point like a cup. “From the sound of it,” she said, “you have three spells left. That’s the minimum for a certified magician—you have to give two spells in service, and one left over to keep you alive. You’d have to get through university without using any magic.” That should have been my cue to turn away from the path of a magician, but I was stubborn and scared. I was not particularly good with mathematics, writing, speaking, or any other useful trait, and I feared my father might not leave me much when he passed away. Magic, no matter how I'd misused it, was the one thing I was certain I could do. I resolved to hoard my last three spells until graduation.   Iffley should have been the site of my third spell. It was reasonably progressive, so male students were allowed in female student's rooms if the door remained open—as if, Amel said, girls and girls and boys and boys got up to no trouble together. Amel Duchamps was my best friend, and one of my only friends at Iffley. Most of the magicians there had more spells to their name than I, and loved to talk about what they planned to do with their two 'extras' after the service to the Crown was given; most of the non-magician boys thought me strange and shy. Girls suspected that I only wanted to speak to them for amorous reasons, which was far from the truth—after Asuka, my heart was too raw for romance. I wanted friendship. Amel provided that and more. She was not a magician, but she did not fear them-—or anything. When she was ten, a horse had gone wild and crushed her legs. The doctor had asked her: would you rather leave them dangling, or cut them away? Amel chose to have them cut, and she told me that all her fear was cut away with them. She had gone about taking dares after that, everything from eating bees to sticking her hand into stinging nettles, and at fifteen she volunteered for experimental mechanical legs. They were beautiful, wide white-and-bronze things with gears winking through the joints. The ones being produced now, mostly for military veterans, are more workmanlike; but the woman who designed Amel's wanted to make her fifteen-year-old test subject smile, so she had boots painted on the feet and winding vines on the calves. "Imagine if magic took a piece of your body, instead of your soul," Amel said to me the day we met. "Then I'd be the one who'd spent two spells. I imagine the first would take your legs up to the knees, the next would go to the hips, then your torso... and finally you'd just be a head, rolling along. Fancy that!" She was a year older than me, but never seemed to notice. We loved each other absolutely in the way of friends, with never a hint of lust; and we both loved the boy in the room across from me with every bit of romance and lust in us, although we never dared reveal that to him. His name was Isaac; he was blind and he had the most beautiful voice I had ever heard. "How's himself?" Amel would always ask when I came to see her, and I'd tell her what Isaac had done lately. Then we'd move on to food, magic, sympathy over the cross of races we both were—English and Inuit for me, French and African for her. Iffley was a hard school, and the deeper into our education we got the more time we spent simply talking and the more our performance faltered. I might have failed altogether and been forced back home had—had the event not occurred. I know very little about the attacker; only that he was a magician, and had decided how to spend each and every one of his spells. The newspapers, of course, spent weeks on the matter, on the carnage from beginning to end and the inspiration for it and the attacker's history and potential madness, but I don't want to know another thing about him. I know all I need to: the third dark, wet January I was at Iffley, I had gone out into the town for a much-needed drink and was returning in the afternoon when I heard the screams. I saw the blood, splattered in haphazard patterns over the wall, like wet lace slapped against the bricks. And for one minute I saw him, the killer, in the doorway across from me. He was bright-eyed with excitement, his hands curled up near his chest as if he had been physically tearing away pieces of his soul to do this with; and he looked at me. For a moment, I saw him consider. But, as I was to learn later, he was on his last spell, and I was just one man. Why waste your power on one man when you can run to another room and kill a crowd? He turned away from me. And I, freezing as if I were seven years old again, let him. Someone will stop him, any moment now, I thought. Some other magician, one of the ones with all five spells. They can spare it. A minute later he cast his last spell and fell dead. A magician in the room even managed to deflect part of it. But that last spell still claimed lives—one teacher, one bystander who had been forced into the college, four students. Amel Duchamps.   I threw myself into my work in an attempt to forget, but it didn't help. Amel should have been the magician, I thought over and over. She had given up her legs in an instant. She would have given up a piece of her soul. But what could I do now? I graduated Iffley College and the Crown claimed me. The last scraps of my soul no longer belonged to me.   My third spell is not worth remarking on. It was a military operation, one part of a massive whole. Performing it, I felt the pain of separating soul from soul for the first time, and I wondered if the pain came with age or only with reluctance.   At thirty I spent my fourth spell in a moment's decision. I had another purpose, another spell laid out for me, although I can no longer recall what it was. Suffice to say I was accompanying a group of soldiers, police and other magicians, retrieving hostages that had been taken from the Royal Opera to the house of an art-obsessed crime lord in Liverpool. I found Isaac among those rescued. I got up the nerve to greet him, but he only tilted his head. Then he opened his mouth and showed me that the criminal devil had taken his tongue. I did not think about it, or even tell him what I was going to do, which in hindsight I should have. I kissed him lightly, passing the last easily taken scrap of my soul mouth to mouth, and restored his tongue. "It's the least I can do,” I said. My superiors raged. My mother heard of it and sent a letter to tell me how stupid I was. Isaac embraced me, which was the high point of the whole affair. But I realized that I could not hear his voice without remembering Amel, and how much she had loved him as well, and so I could not be with him long. When I received orders of discharge I bid him farewell and good luck, and set off wandering. I found work as a teacher, here and there, although what people most wanted me to do was give lectures on how greatly I had wasted my magic—provide an example to the younger generation of magicians by accepting responsibility for my foolishness. That I could not do, and sooner or later I had to move on from a place when the attention grew to be too much. My life was lonely. But it warmed me a little to think of a piece of my soul clinging to Isaac, like a flower-petal on the back of his tongue, reverberating with the sound every time he sang.   In the summer of my thirty-sixth year, my mother died and the aggression between England and Germany flared into war once again. Newspapers made poetry of it, suggesting that Germany was given courage to attack by my mother's death. They ran photographs of the Battle of Griefswald, the side that had taken place in my old home's ornamental pool, and some reporters tried to interview me on the matter. With mourning as my excuse, I returned to my old home and locked myself in. My father had gone back to his land of birth, and wanted nothing to do with the house or me. In time, interest died out. The war occupied everyone's attention. Sides were taken, attacks were made, and after a while I stopped bothering to read the newspapers. With a place to live and the money my mother left behind, I no longer had to go anywhere, and as the days passed I wanted to less and less. People only spoke of magic when they spoke of how it might be used in the war. I was despised, quietly, for my lack of contribution. I came to see the few kindnesses I was still shown as undeserved, and I retreated into my home completely, stocking up on food so I wouldn't need to leave for a long time. A few people still found me. Young men and women going off to war passed through my part of the country, and some of them stopped at my door. I didn't understand why; finally, I allowed a girl named Katherine inside just to see what she wanted, and over a cup of weak coffee she blurted out that she only had three spells left. I realized that she wanted to tell me about the first two. That was what they all wanted, really, the people who knocked at my door. Some had three spells left, some two, but all of them had spent the first on impulse. Katherine had cursed her stepfather's vineyards. A boy called Natanael had resurrected his favorite apple tree after it had been struck by lightning. Gita had brought a patch of earth to life, and it followed her around. "It used to be bigger," she said, looking down at the muddy little golem. "I think someday it will wash away completely." All I could do was listen, but I realized that was all they wanted. Eventually they stopped coming. Germany was inching across England's shore near my home, and people fled the area. I stayed deep within my house, and it might have been mistaken for empty; certainly, nobody came to evacuate me. I lived in a looming house over a ghost town, with the sounds of warfare drawing nearer every day, and I could not bring myself to care. I began working my way through the wine cellar. It was when I was down there, one day, that the bombs came down. I felt the earth shake over my head, and when I mounted the stairs an hour later my house had collapsed around me. Cavernous walls bowed in, shattered windows were obscured with earth, the wooden beams of the house creaked and groaned under the weight of rubble. It was dark and stifling and still large, like the belly of a whale, and in the center of the floor lay a bomb. It didn't seem about to go off, so I circled it at a distance and tried to remember what I'd read about German bombs. There had been an article in the last newspaper I'd bothered to look at. They were iron shells full of destructive magic, released when their metal shell was cracked or some requirements for the seething spell within were met. Every one one-fifth of a magician's life, and the Germans were beginning to drop dozens of them. I remembered Iffley, the blood on the walls and the cracked windows, and bile rose in my throat. That man had chosen to use his magic in that way, but I could not imagine that a rational magician would agree to it willingly. I felt a strange sympathy for the magician who had spent part of their soul in such a manner. But what were the requirements for this spell? It had been dropped rather precisely here. Perhaps, ascribing more credit to me than I deserved, they thought I might follow in my mother's footsteps and kill a great deal of their people. Still, why would it be meant for me and not awaken when I stood within twenty feet of it? A thought struck me, and I almost laughed aloud; then I remembered that nobody was here to think me mad, and I did laugh. They had meant the bomb for a magician, of course. But while my spell for Isaac had been publicized, my earlier expenditures were shrouded in mystery. They had expected a magician with at least two spells left. My one remaining scrap was not enough to trigger the bomb unless I stood next to it. I left it where it lay and went to investigate the doors.   My bad luck held, and they were all blocked by wreckage. I was trapped and help was not likely to come. And for all that I'd willingly shut myself off from life, I felt a pang of huge and echoing terror at the thought. I wanted, for a fiery moment, to survive; or at least to know that my death would be noticed, that I would be mourned. If I had still possessed two spells, I would have used one then. But I only had one, and the moment passed. In two weeks' time I had run through most of my food, and had nigh-unconsciously begun spending time nearer to the bomb. It was a contest of wills, fueled by my ragged mind; it seemed to me that my own weakening instinct to live fought against the soul-fragment of the magician who wished me to die. I spoke to it, sometimes. Would have named it, if I were a little more mad. Told it the story of my life, as far as I knew it. "We haven't gotten to the ending yet," I informed it, in a conspiratorial tone, "but I know I shall die. It only remains to see how." In my defense, I was rather drunk during those weeks, and in my further defense, my father kept a far more extensive wine-cellar than I did a pantry. Recalling my mother, I can hardly blame him. Regardless: after two weeks, as I sat and studied the bomb and wondered how swift a death it might be to trigger it, I heard noises faint and far above me. I thought at first they were delusions—I had imagined, many nights, the sound of a cat padding through the hallways, or the creak of mechanical legs—but I kept listening, and realized they were the sounds of digging. Someone had come. I leapt to my feet, head spinning, and looked upwards. I could hear a voice now, shouting, but it was too far away to recognize. But as I stood there, shaking, so overwhelmed I did not know whether I felt joy or terror, I heard another noise: a slow and measured cracking. There must be magicians in the group above. The bomb began to tremble, like a hatching egg, and in a moment it would split open. I wished that I did not have time to think. Magic, excusing the spell I performed unwillingly, always came in a moment of impulse. But the metal egg cracked slowly, and my hands trembled, and my traitor mind said Wait a moment longer. It has not gone off yet; they might be near enough to call to, soon, and someone else— Someone else, I knew with utter certainty, would come too late. That did not make the magic come easily, it did not spur me on without thought, but it gave me the strength to raise my hand toward the shivering spell on the floor. "You were meant for me," I reminded it, and as the shell finally opened I enclosed it. The force was strong, almost stronger than I, and had to go somewhere, so I directed it toward the part of the ceiling which I had heard nothing from. I had to hope that was enough. The spell was silent, save for the roar of the roof parting before it, and nothing more than a glimmer of light to my eyes. I sank to my knees, watching the ceiling split open, and saw the cloudy sky for the first time in weeks. "I slew the whale," I said. My tongue felt thick and heavy in my mouth. "I slew the whale." Far away, I heard a shout. I still could not recognize the voice, but it seemed familiar. Perhaps it was one of the young magicians who had stopped at my door. Perhaps it was Isaac. Anything seemed likely, in that moment. The cloudy sky dimmed before my eyes as my vision failed, but my mind's eye seemed to sharpen. I thought I saw the house from the outside, clear as day, and felt a cat winding around my legs, her purring weight incredibly familiar. The weight transformed into water and I stood, for a moment, in the lake where I wove Asuka’s spell. Some say a magician splits into five pieces at their death, but it felt more like becoming whole. And here—no, this cannot be death, for I find myself back in Amel's room in Iffley, where I never worked a spell, and she smiles at me so hard her eyes crease up to almost nothing. "How's himself?" she asks, and I answer, and while I do she gets up—her legs no longer creaking as badly as they did—and paces to the door to open it. Morrow slips half of her long grey body inside, but in the way of cats she can't make up her mind; as Amel and I sink deeper into conversation she comes in and goes out, in and out, in and out and in and out.   END "Defining the Shapes of our Selves" is copyright Jes Rausch 2017. "The Last Spell of the Raven" is copyright Morris Tanafon 2017. This recording is a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives license which means you can share it with anyone you’d like, but please don’t change or sell it. Our theme is “Aurora Borealis” by Bird Creek, available through the Google Audio Library. You can support GlitterShip by checking out our Patreon at patreon.com/keffy, subscribing to our feed, or by leaving reviews on iTunes. Thanks for listening, and we’ll be back soon with a reprint of “Circus Boy Without A Safety Net" by Craig Laurance Gidney.

So you got tasked with managing your first high-stakes software project? Like handling tech debt, breaking up a monolithic code base into a microservices architecture, or something else?   Congratulations!   Are you excited?   Maybe a little nervous?   Or maybe you’re really nervous because you need to deliver on a tight deadline, and there is a lot on the line like your relationship with customers, revenue, and most importantly your job!   Fear not because all this month on *Build*, we’re going to be tackling the topic of how to manage your first high-stakes software project.   In today’s episode, I’m joined by Jen Leech who is a VP of Engineering at Truss. Jen and I dig into some valuable strategies that will address and alleviate your anxieties around managing your first high-stakes software project.   Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:   Two valuable rules that will save you from concocting stories and creating unnecessary drama around a project. How to prevent ideas from being shot down instantly, and instead share them in a way that will pique your teammate’s curiosity and foster an effective dialogue around them. Build is produced as a partnership between Femgineer and Pivotal Tracker. San Francisco video production by StartMotionMEDIA.   Project Management: The Ground Rules You Need to Set to Get Through a Software Project Successfully Transcript   Poornima: You got tasked with your first high-stakes project. Are you excited? Maybe a little nervous? Or maybe really nervous because you're worried about the tight deadlines, the revenue, and your job? Fear not, because we're going to cover a number of ways to address and alleviate your anxieties in today's episode of *Build*, so stick around.                                                   Welcome to *Build*, brought to you by Pivotal Tracker. I'm your host, Poornima Vijayashanker. In each episode, innovators and I debunk a number of myths and misconceptions related to building products, companies, and your career in tech. One misconception I had early on in my career, when I was managing my first project, was that I was the only one who was a nervous wreck. I worried about meeting deadlines, budget, and shipping it. I thought everyone else had their act together and it was just me. Well, it turns out it was all a façade and some people were just better at hiding it than I was.                                                   In today's episode, we're going to be addressing a number of anxieties that come up when you're managing your first high-stakes project. In future episodes, we'll talk about how to keep your team motivated to stay on course and successfully ship. To help us out, I've invited Jen Leech, who is the VP of Engineering at Truss. Thanks for joining us today Jen.   Jen: Absolutely. A pleasure to be here.   Poornima: You and I met a few months back when we were both speaking and I remember you talking about your first high-stakes project last year, but before we dive into, that let's start with your career. What got you interested in tech and eventually inspired you to start your own company?   Jen Leech: I wouldn't say that I ever got into tech; I would say I started there. I have always really, really loved math and science. I started coding when I was 10 and it was the natural place for me to be, that's where I was. However, I found that in industry I didn't always find the things that I wanted in my work environment, so I started Truss to create the work environment that I wanted to be in.   Poornima: What kind of environment where you looking to create?   Jen Leech: I wanted an environment that would enable me to ride for the leadership positions that I felt that I wanted to be in. I also wanted it to be an environment that was really empowering to all employees to arrive to their greatest potential, to bring to bear the greatest contributions that they could to the business, rather than necessarily trying to constrain or confine them to some limited pigeonhole of what the business thinks is best for it, which often limits the business potential itself.   Poornima: Nice. Tell us what Truss does.   Jen Leech: Truss is a consultancy. We do various software projects; our capabilities range from infrastructure and dev ops through to application development, to architecture, and we also do some management consulting. Really what that is, is a representation of the fact that our staff have a really broad skill set and we rotate roles on any project that we are on up and down the stack and across the stack. We feel as though that's one version of dogfooding that enables us to provide better service for anything we build.   Poornima: Maybe some of our viewers out there don't know what dogfooding is—what's that all about?   Jen Leech: Dogfooding is an industry term for if you are building a product you had damn well better try it yourself. Let's say that you put out a bowl of food for someone and you've never tasted it; it might actually be completely awful but if you make yourself eat it, then you have a sense of, "Oh, I should make that better," and the customer gets the benefit.   A day in the life of a VP of Engineering   Poornima: What do you do on a day-to-day basis as a VP of Engineering?   Jen Leech: As part of the dogfooding principle, I do the same work that our engineers do on a day-to-day basis insofar as I do client work. About three to four days a week I work onsite with clients. Then, what I do with the rest of my time is really the VP of Engineering kind of work. I define processes that dictate how the engineering organization operates, including things like our leveling process for how we help engineers move forward with their career, how we do peer reviews. We implemented a salary transparency policy at our company, and rolled that out in association with doing market analysis, and making sure that we had equal pay across our organization. I do all of those things as well as institute client engagement processes for making sure that we set expectations properly, making sure that we learn from our experiences with clients, etc.   Poornima: Last year, you got tasked with managing your first high-stakes project. Let's dive into that. I know you were initially pretty excited about it, right?   Jen Leech: Sure. I love a challenge.   Poornima: Who was on your team with you?   Jen Leech: This is where a client project, the project had been attempted a couple of times. It was for a V architecture of a big data-processing pipeline. The pipeline that they had, that they were already using at the company, was an MVP version of the pipeline and it had proved to be very difficult to change. It was very monolithic and it was slow to test any changes, slow to make any changes, very difficult to understand the code.   Poornima: Let's break that down. MVP is?   Jen Leech: Minimum viable product.   Poornima: Like a prototype?   Jen Leech: That's correct.   Poornima: Then, you mentioned that it was monolithic. What does that mean?   Jen Leech: Monolithic, that means that the code base that was used to process the pipeline was, in this case, two very large code bases that had become highly interconnected and so large in number of lines of code and the amount of time that it took to test any changes that it became very difficult to make any changes at all for fear of breaking the system.   Poornima: Probably like a lot of interdependencies?   Jen Leech: Correct.   Poornima: You fix one thing something else breaks and so on.   Jen Leech: Right and you would have things like a part of the code base had several-thousand-line-long python scripts essentially that you make one change in the middle and it wasn't really clear what would happen further down.   Poornima: Got it. What was the suggested course of action to fix that?   Jen Leech: When we came in—I didn't answer your earlier question—   Poornima: Go ahead.   Jen Leech: I should do that. The team that they pulled together, they asked me to lead the team and the people on the team included the company CTO, a director of engineering, a senior engineer, a data scientist, and one other Truss engineer, so a relatively small team, but a crack team. Our early discussions were attended by the COO and the VP of Engineering, so you can tell this is something they cared about.   Poornima: Very nice. How did you corral all of them and give them a sense of, “Here's what our prescription is to fixing this monolithic code base?”   How team dynamics impact the quality of the solutions   Jen Leech: I've read a lot of research on collaboration. I care a lot about building the best product that you can with the team that you have. The research that I have read talks a lot about the dynamic in the team, and how conversation occurs between people on the team, and how that impacts the solutions that the team comes up with. One really interesting result from that research is that if you have a team of, let's say, five people, one person on the team has a really high IQ, they're a genius, that team does not do as well as a team of five people who all have average IQs but who all listen to each other really well.   Poornima: Interesting. Why is that?   Jen Leech: Good question. The research did not necessarily try to explain why that was the result. However, what it did was they said repeatedly if you take a team and you measure how well they take turns in conversation, how well they integrate in all the ideas from everyone who's participating, that those metrics will predict the quality of the solution much more strongly than average IQ, as an example.   Poornima: Now, I'm not a mind reader but I assumed you were excited but also maybe a little bit nervous because you said there were a lot of C-level executives there, a lot of senior folks on the team that had a vested stake in it. How did you get over that initial hurdle? Did you set any ground rules or a framework?   Jen Leech: We had a really tight timeline and I wanted to try to get the best I could from the team, and we actually had to have a working prototype within four weeks. We're talking about working prototype, which was deployed and running real data, and on a big data processing pipeline.   Poornima: Why such a tight timeline, by the way?   Jen Leech: That was because for two reasons. One business needs, the company needed to increase the number of clients they had per, essentially, deployed resource. There we have a cost, scale at cost-scaling issue here. Then also, they had tried to do this project a couple of times already. They had given themselves, let's say, maybe six months to do it but burned away five of those months so this was last—   Poornima: Got it, they came to you. How did you take on this project or why did you take on this project? It's pretty tight.   Jen Leech: I didn't have a choice insofar as I showed up in a meeting room and they said, "Hey Jen, you're leading this project," which to be honest I don't mind. I think that's fun. That's part of why I do what I do. It became clear that I needed to make sure that the team was going to be extremely productive and simultaneously come up with a really good solution to the problem. I came up with some little tricks that I did internally to make sure that the team stayed on the right track and that I was facilitating the collaboration process toward the most effective result.   Poornima: Now, did you share these tricks with the other people on the team or are these just for yourself?   Jen Leech:  I did not, actually. I didn't even fully coalesce them into a collection of things until hindsight 20/20, then I flipped back and I said, "Oh, I did these things. That was effective, that worked."   Poornima: How are you consistent about enforcing them? That's another thing, right? We make these rules, these tricks for ourselves, but sometimes we don't ever hold ourselves accountable.   Jen Leech: I found that whenever I deployed them, the conversation was more effective and so in a way it was really easy—   Poornima: The feedback to you.   Jen Leech: To enforce them because everyone in the room felt the effect and I found that people would come up to me after the discussions and say, "Wow, that was such an effective discussion. Like, that was great. I don't know what you did but ...," that kind of thing. It was self-reinforcing. When stress levels increased or when people were tired then sometimes I would forget and things would degrade a little bit. Then I'd step back and be like, "Oh yeah, I should do that thing again." It was easy to try to keep doing it because it was better.   Poornima: Let's tackle the first rule that you had for yourself.   Rule #1: State facts not opinions   Jen Leech: The first rule that I came up with was, for me, personally one of the biggest changes in how I participated in these discussions it was to say, "State facts not opinions."   Poornima: That's a great one. Can you give us an example of what that looks like in practice?   Jen Leech: Sure. Really this is about separating your ego from the ideas that you're putting forth. It's a mechanic that allows you to shed light on an idea without becoming so attached to it that if it's a bad idea, you have difficulty letting go. As an example, let's say that you want to suggest to a team that maybe a micro services architecture is the right solution for a problem that you have. You could walk into the room and say, "Hey, a microservices architecture, that's going to solve problems A, B, C, and D for us. We should do it. I think it's totally going to work. What's the next step?" You're excited, that's great. Being excited is great; however, you've immediately just jumped into that idea with your full heart and soul in a way at the get go. If for some reason your idea isn't necessarily the best idea, then if someone comes back to you and says, "Ah, maybe that's not the best idea," then all of a sudden your hopes are dashed, that's not so great.                                                   You could take the same idea and you can walk into a room and you could say, "I think that a microservice architecture could be interesting to look at. My understanding is that it should give us A, B, C, or D, or maybe all four. Does that sound right? Do you think that we would actually get those things from microservice architecture in this situation? And would there be any problems introduced by pursuing a microservices solution to this problem?" Then, in that situation you are saying, "Here's some information. This is something we should examine. Let's examine it together." Then, when someone comes into the room and says, "Well, you know? I think that maybe it won't do C for us because in this situation that condition doesn't apply." Then you have a dialogue and when you investigate that problem, it's no longer your idea or their idea, you're trying to find the truth.   Poornima: I know our audience out there is going to be really curious to know how do you go from that conversation to making a final decision so that you're not stuck consensus building. We're going to cover that in the next episode, so stay tuned for that, but let's move on. What's another rule that you gave for yourself as you were managing this project?   Rule #2: Say to yourself, “Maybe they’re right”   Jen Leech: Another rule that I created was...that first rule was for your bringing an idea to the table, that perspective. The second one was the same thing...similar idea but from a listener's perspective of saying—it was a mantra I used and it was, "Maybe they're right."   Poornima: I love this one because it does a lot of good for you in that you're not concocting stories and a lot of drama, I think, around a project also gets dispelled because you're giving people the benefit of the doubt but it's so hard to do in practice.   Jen Leech: That's why it's a mantra.   Poornima: Let's talk about some examples that you had to use it in or that our viewers would have to use it.   Jen Leech: In this microservices architecture example, so someone comes to you and says, "Hey, you know? I think that a microservices architecture might solve our problem." Let's say, you as a listener have built microservices, you've transitioned from a monolithic code bases to microservices 20 times and you have a lot of context. You could say, "Hmm, nah. No, I don't think so." You could just say, "Based on my experience, I think you're wrong."                                                   This tactic is about putting that on its head and saying to yourself, "Maybe they're right," puts yourself into their shoes. Once you're in their shoes and saying, "Well, maybe they're right," then you can say, "OK, well why do you think that a microservices architecture is the right solution to this problem? What specific problems does it solve for us?" Then it leads you in a path of thinking through their suggestion and as you do that it may reveal things that maybe you didn't realize they were trying to solve. Maybe they have a different problem in mind to solve than what you do. When you realize that they're trying to solve a different problem you're like, "Maybe it does solve that problem in a way I hadn't thought about. Maybe if we use it in this one particular instance it will solve a different problem that I thought we had."   Poornima: That's great. It helps you get over the assumptions of the problem that you thought or it gives you more context to see how deep of a problem it is.   Jen Leech: It reveals your assumptions, it reveals the other person's assumptions, and it opens you up to be a much better listener, and simultaneously also validates the other person's ideas, which may be one of the more importance of that interaction, in fact.   Poornima: I feel like both these mantras, rules, whatever you like to call them are great for like 99% of the situations we have when we're managing that high-stakes project, so thank you so much, Jen, for sharing them.   Jen Leech: Absolutely.  

Download MP3 ８月の５週間は、恒例の「超濃縮！やさしい英語会話」です。この８年間に配信した284本の「やさしい英語会話」よりエピソードを厳選し、毎回４本分を濃縮してお届けします。ナチュラルスピードの会話をスクリプトとともにお楽しみください。 今年の「超濃縮！」も今回が最終回。今回はこの時期にふさわしく(!?)「宿題」の話題をお届けします。本ポッドキャストで宿題の話題といえば、期限を守れず先生に言い訳したり、先延ばしの王様が登場したり、宿題の多い先生にハロウィンに仕返ししたりと、あまりよろしくない例ばかり。現在夏休みの宿題に追われている学生の皆さんは、どうか参考にしないように…！ (初級〜中級)*** Script *** [ (117) A Problem with a Student ] W: Now, Tom, I think we need to talk about your behaviour in my lessons. M: What have I done this time?? W: Don't talk to me like that, please. Now, I've been worried about you for some time, because you haven't handed any homework in for two weeks. M: I told you Miss Suzuki: my printer's broken. W: That's not an excuse. You can use the library's printers. M: I never have time, though. When I get there it's always shut! W: Then get there earlier. One missing homework I can deal with, but there are no excuses for two weeks' worth. M: OK, I'll hand it all in next lesson. I promise. W: I'll expect it, and if not, then you'll be in detention on Tuesday at lunchtime. M: Oh, that's too much! W: The homework isn't the only thing, Tom, and you know it. I can hear you chatting all the way through my lessons. M: I'm just helping the girl next to me. She doesn't understand anything. W: Don't lie to me. Last week I distinctly heard talk about football. M: It's all Melissa's fault, Miss. She always talks to me, and I can't just not reply, can I? W: I suspect that to be a lie, but I'm planning on talking to Melissa too. So don't think I'm just picking on you. Anyway, whatever you're doing at the back of the classroom there, I know it's not listening to me, because in our last practice exam you got only 30%. M: I do listen to you. I just find it really hard to understand everything. W: Do you always copy down what I write on the board? Could you show me your workbook? M: Oh, um, sorry, I left it in my locker... W: Then go and get it from your locker. M: Oh, um, actually I think I left it at home... W: Tom: If I don't see that workbook full of notes by tomorrow morning, you're in detention! [ (125) The King of Procrastination ] W: Hey Ken. I have a question. How do you study so much? You're always busy at work. I'd like to know how to manage my time better. M: Oh, it's easy. I just procrastinate. W: What? M: Yeah. Everyone thinks it's better to get things done quickly. But I just do the opposite. I procrastinate! It works! The day before deadlines I feel that I'm the only one who can handle the pressure. I love that time. W: I think you're kind of special. Nobody's going to be like you when they procrastinate. They'll panic, and they won't be able to do their best. M: Well, I'm the King of Procrastination, you know. I can do anything by postponing it. Everyone says "Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today." But, as Mark Twain said, "Don't put off until tomorrow what you can put off till the day AFTER tomorrow!" W: Ha ha... Sound's like a lazy guy's strategy! Don't you think you'll lose chances if you don't get things done quickly? It's hard to succeed, you know. If you put things off until the last second, you'll make mistakes. M: Hey, don't be so hard on me. You haven't listened to my whole story yet. I just procrastinate at night. W: At night? But you still put things off. M: No. I just procrastinate till the morning. I'm an early bird. I'm best in the mornings, and that's how I study. I wake up at 5 and get my job done. W: Oh, that's a SPECIAL kind of procrastination. I HAVE read that studying and working in the morning is really a good way. Maybe I should try it. M: Yeah. The early bird catches the worm, you know! You can get good ideas in the mornings. Also, the time is limited, so you can feel the time pressure, too. W: How do you spend your time at night? M: I just read books for fun, and sleep well. Hey, let's finish working. We have to procrastinate! This work can wait till tomorrow morning. Let's go. W: Ken, it's still 3 in the afternoon! [ (218) Homework Stress ] [ Scene: A late evening in a library ] M: What's up? You look a little stressed out. W: I was working on an important report, but then my computer crashed and I lost it all!! M: Really? Didn't you back up the file? W: Well, I probably should have, but I never expected my computer to crash. I just bought it last month! M: Oh, really? You must have picked a bad one then! But, you know, nobody ever expects their computer to crash. It just happens! That's why you're supposed to back up your files! W: I know, but I just needed to finish it and turn it in today. Then I'd be done with it! M: Yeah, but now you have to start all over again, don't you? W: Uhg! Don't remind me! I'll have to stay up all night rewriting it now. And even then I might not be able to finish. M: It's a lot of work, I'm sure. But at least you remember a bit of what you want to write, so it shouldn't take as long as it did before. W: Yeah, it'll only take three hours instead of six. M: Don't be so pessimistic! Worrying about it isn't going to help you any, right? W: No, it won't, but how am I supposed to NOT worry? M: I don't know. Just, make a pot of coffee, put on some up-beat, energizing music, and start writing! It'll probably be easier than you think. W: That's easy for you to say! You're not the one who has to write it. M: The sooner you start, the sooner you'll finish. And then you can properly relax and not have to worry about it anymore. W: Alright. That's a good point. Well, wish me luck! M: Good luck! You're going to need it! [ (75) Halloween: Trying to Scare the Teacher! ] M: Hey Becky, what are you going to be for the Halloween party this year? W: Hmm... I was thinking of dressing up as the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland. How about you? M: I was thinking of being a ghoul. W: Really? But the party theme this year is fictional characters. M: Yeah, I know. I'll probably change my costume later to match the theme. I was going to use the ghoul outfit right before the party. W: For what? M: If I tell you, you have to join in on my plan, alright? W: OK, fine. I'm in. What are you thinking of? M: I think we should scare Mr. Smith. He lives right down the street. We can get him back for all of the detentions and homework he gives us in school. W: Hmm. Sounds a bit risky. What if he finds out who we are? I think he'll notice since my face is showing. Plus, a queen doesn't exactly look scary! M: Exactly. I was thinking that we dress up as a ghoul and a werewolf. I have costumes from last year. We can use those. W: Fine. I guess it's OK, as long as I get to be the ghoul. [ Knocks on the door. M and W voices sound scary. Smith screams. ] M: Good evening Mr. Samuel Smith. We have come to free the demons within you. W: Step forward and we will begin the exorcism. [ M & W voice evil laughs. ] Smith: Exorcism? What is this nonsense? Take off your masks! W: These are not masks. Smith: Of course they are. Take them off or I'll . . . M: Silence! You shall speak no more. You have been an evil teacher. W: You give much too much homework. You gave an unfair detention to Kyle last week. You deserve to be. . . M: Becky. No! Why did you use my name? Smith: Hey, wait a minute. Kyle and Becky. I KNEW those voices sounded familiar. You will both be in detention for the rest of the semester! Happy Halloween! [ Smith voices an evil laugh ]

Download MP3 ８月の５週間は、恒例の「超濃縮！やさしい英語会話」です。この８年間に配信した284本の「やさしい英語会話」よりエピソードを厳選し、毎回４本分を濃縮してお届けします。ナチュラルスピードの会話をスクリプトとともにお楽しみください。 今年の「超濃縮！」も今回が最終回。今回はこの時期にふさわしく(!?)「宿題」の話題をお届けします。本ポッドキャストで宿題の話題といえば、期限を守れず先生に言い訳したり、先延ばしの王様が登場したり、宿題の多い先生にハロウィンに仕返ししたりと、あまりよろしくない例ばかり。現在夏休みの宿題に追われている学生の皆さんは、どうか参考にしないように…！ (初級〜中級)*** Script *** [ (117) A Problem with a Student ] W: Now, Tom, I think we need to talk about your behaviour in my lessons. M: What have I done this time?? W: Don't talk to me like that, please. Now, I've been worried about you for some time, because you haven't handed any homework in for two weeks. M: I told you Miss Suzuki: my printer's broken. W: That's not an excuse. You can use the library's printers. M: I never have time, though. When I get there it's always shut! W: Then get there earlier. One missing homework I can deal with, but there are no excuses for two weeks' worth. M: OK, I'll hand it all in next lesson. I promise. W: I'll expect it, and if not, then you'll be in detention on Tuesday at lunchtime. M: Oh, that's too much! W: The homework isn't the only thing, Tom, and you know it. I can hear you chatting all the way through my lessons. M: I'm just helping the girl next to me. She doesn't understand anything. W: Don't lie to me. Last week I distinctly heard talk about football. M: It's all Melissa's fault, Miss. She always talks to me, and I can't just not reply, can I? W: I suspect that to be a lie, but I'm planning on talking to Melissa too. So don't think I'm just picking on you. Anyway, whatever you're doing at the back of the classroom there, I know it's not listening to me, because in our last practice exam you got only 30%. M: I do listen to you. I just find it really hard to understand everything. W: Do you always copy down what I write on the board? Could you show me your workbook? M: Oh, um, sorry, I left it in my locker... W: Then go and get it from your locker. M: Oh, um, actually I think I left it at home... W: Tom: If I don't see that workbook full of notes by tomorrow morning, you're in detention! [ (125) The King of Procrastination ] W: Hey Ken. I have a question. How do you study so much? You're always busy at work. I'd like to know how to manage my time better. M: Oh, it's easy. I just procrastinate. W: What? M: Yeah. Everyone thinks it's better to get things done quickly. But I just do the opposite. I procrastinate! It works! The day before deadlines I feel that I'm the only one who can handle the pressure. I love that time. W: I think you're kind of special. Nobody's going to be like you when they procrastinate. They'll panic, and they won't be able to do their best. M: Well, I'm the King of Procrastination, you know. I can do anything by postponing it. Everyone says "Don't put off until tomorrow what you can do today." But, as Mark Twain said, "Don't put off until tomorrow what you can put off till the day AFTER tomorrow!" W: Ha ha... Sound's like a lazy guy's strategy! Don't you think you'll lose chances if you don't get things done quickly? It's hard to succeed, you know. If you put things off until the last second, you'll make mistakes. M: Hey, don't be so hard on me. You haven't listened to my whole story yet. I just procrastinate at night. W: At night? But you still put things off. M: No. I just procrastinate till the morning. I'm an early bird. I'm best in the mornings, and that's how I study. I wake up at 5 and get my job done. W: Oh, that's a SPECIAL kind of procrastination. I HAVE read that studying and working in the morning is really a good way. Maybe I should try it. M: Yeah. The early bird catches the worm, you know! You can get good ideas in the mornings. Also, the time is limited, so you can feel the time pressure, too. W: How do you spend your time at night? M: I just read books for fun, and sleep well. Hey, let's finish working. We have to procrastinate! This work can wait till tomorrow morning. Let's go. W: Ken, it's still 3 in the afternoon! [ (218) Homework Stress ] [ Scene: A late evening in a library ] M: What's up? You look a little stressed out. W: I was working on an important report, but then my computer crashed and I lost it all!! M: Really? Didn't you back up the file? W: Well, I probably should have, but I never expected my computer to crash. I just bought it last month! M: Oh, really? You must have picked a bad one then! But, you know, nobody ever expects their computer to crash. It just happens! That's why you're supposed to back up your files! W: I know, but I just needed to finish it and turn it in today. Then I'd be done with it! M: Yeah, but now you have to start all over again, don't you? W: Uhg! Don't remind me! I'll have to stay up all night rewriting it now. And even then I might not be able to finish. M: It's a lot of work, I'm sure. But at least you remember a bit of what you want to write, so it shouldn't take as long as it did before. W: Yeah, it'll only take three hours instead of six. M: Don't be so pessimistic! Worrying about it isn't going to help you any, right? W: No, it won't, but how am I supposed to NOT worry? M: I don't know. Just, make a pot of coffee, put on some up-beat, energizing music, and start writing! It'll probably be easier than you think. W: That's easy for you to say! You're not the one who has to write it. M: The sooner you start, the sooner you'll finish. And then you can properly relax and not have to worry about it anymore. W: Alright. That's a good point. Well, wish me luck! M: Good luck! You're going to need it! [ (75) Halloween: Trying to Scare the Teacher! ] M: Hey Becky, what are you going to be for the Halloween party this year? W: Hmm... I was thinking of dressing up as the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland. How about you? M: I was thinking of being a ghoul. W: Really? But the party theme this year is fictional characters. M: Yeah, I know. I'll probably change my costume later to match the theme. I was going to use the ghoul outfit right before the party. W: For what? M: If I tell you, you have to join in on my plan, alright? W: OK, fine. I'm in. What are you thinking of? M: I think we should scare Mr. Smith. He lives right down the street. We can get him back for all of the detentions and homework he gives us in school. W: Hmm. Sounds a bit risky. What if he finds out who we are? I think he'll notice since my face is showing. Plus, a queen doesn't exactly look scary! M: Exactly. I was thinking that we dress up as a ghoul and a werewolf. I have costumes from last year. We can use those. W: Fine. I guess it's OK, as long as I get to be the ghoul. [ Knocks on the door. M and W voices sound scary. Smith screams. ] M: Good evening Mr. Samuel Smith. We have come to free the demons within you. W: Step forward and we will begin the exorcism. [ M & W voice evil laughs. ] Smith: Exorcism? What is this nonsense? Take off your masks! W: These are not masks. Smith: Of course they are. Take them off or I'll . . . M: Silence! You shall speak no more. You have been an evil teacher. W: You give much too much homework. You gave an unfair detention to Kyle last week. You deserve to be. . . M: Becky. No! Why did you use my name? Smith: Hey, wait a minute. Kyle and Becky. I KNEW those voices sounded familiar. You will both be in detention for the rest of the semester! Happy Halloween! [ Smith voices an evil laugh ]

Alexandra Merisoiu shares her story of how she went from guzzling Coke and eating at all hours to lean, fit and healthy. Plus a tiny food that you'd never guess has more calcium than dairy, and a food for sport that keeps you going all day long!The food that I'll share with you is not only an amazing source of protein, energy and healthy fats, but one tiny ounce contains 18% of the recommended daily allowance for calcium. So it's also an amazing bone food for all you people who don't eat dairy and might be worried about where you're getting your calcium. And I bet you don't know what it is! Or maybe you do...you'll find out in a bit! Our guest, Alexandra MerisoiuI am very excited to be joined here today by Alexandra Merisoiu, also known as The Body Engineer.Alexandra specialises in working with runners, beginners and advanced, who want to run faster and further, with less effort and fewer injuries. She also has a 3rd Dan Black Belt in Karate Shotokan, and she is a Martial Arts British National Champion, with a host of national and international awards in the sport, including World Cup Champion. And if that weren't enough, in between helping others with their running, Alexandra still competes at an international level!Alexandra's storySo let's get to the story. Alexandra welcome to the Clean Food, Dirty Stories podcast! I'm really excited to have you here today!Alexandra: Thank you very much for the invitation. And thank you for the introduction as well.Me: Oh well you're welcome! I just find it astounding, everything that you manage to do. And I don't know how you do it, but I'm sure you'll share a bit about that in a moment.I mean, I know when we talked about you coming on the podcast, you mentioned that there was a time when you were drinking like 2 liters of coke a day and definitely with a very different level of health and fitness compared to what you have today.And I would really love for you to tell everybody how you changed your relationship with food, because there are a lot of things that you've overcome that a lot of people still struggle with, you know?Alexandra: Yeah, well that's true. 2 liters of Coca-Cola, 2 liters of Sprite, I kind of changed from one to the other. Me: Variety, yeah...Training hard in RomaniaAlexandra: I mean, back then in my family I didn't have the education that I have today. When McDonald's came to my country, I was there a few times a week. But we didn't really know what and how and why...Me: Oh sorry, so can you remind people where you grew up, then?Alexandra: Oh yes, in Romania. In Eastern Europe.So I was practising martial arts 6 days a week, sometimes 12 sessions a week. Twice a day was in school holidays.Me: Wow!Alexandra: A holiday with my family didn't really exist because I was always training. And yeah, I was just eating, burning calories, eating, burning calories...There was no way I could have put on weight.But fast forward to today, it's not actually about being able to burn calories. It's about what's going on inside your body, it's all about calories.Alexandra's first turning pointMe: I know you had a turning point at one stage, right? Because you said you had Coke and a sandwich, and...what led you to change?Alexandra: Oh yes, I remember it. I was actually a little bit scared. I was twelve, thirteen years old, and I was eating a sandwich really quick. And I was drinking Coke while eating a sandwich, right?Me: As many people do, right?Alexandra: Yes, and two minutes into eating, I just threw it up. And I think from what I remember, that was the turning point. At that point I just stopped drinking Coca-Cola.Me: Yes because you weren't feeling sick, right? It wasn't like you had an illness and threw up, it was actually the...Alexandra: No, no, I actually think I was getting ready to go to my karate training. I actually went!Me: (laughs) That doesn't surprise me!Alexandra: (laughs) Yes, my training is a bit like if I'm not in the hospital...Me: Were you competing at that time too?Alexandra: Yes, yes, I think my first competition was when I was ten years old, or nine. It was an in-house competition, so small. But yeah, I was competing, and then at fourteen I received my first black belt.A definite U-turnMe: Wow! And what were you thinking when, I mean, you've eaten the sandwich, you've drunk the Coca-Cola, you've thrown it up. I mean, what thoughts were in your head when you were like 'I've had enough, I can't eat this way any more'?Alexandra: Oh it's been such a long time, I don't remember. But the shock of throwing up and of feeling sick...I think it was a U-turn, basically. I don't think I thought about it too much. I don't remember thinking 'Oh this isn't too good for my health'.Me: Yeah, a twelve-year-old probably wouldn't think like that, right?Alexandra: Yes, probably I thought 'This made me throw up so I'm not gonna have it anymore'.From training to clubbingMe: Cause you were quite heavier at one point, right? You said that you were like ten kilos heavier at one stage, so how did that happen?Alexandra: Yeah, so when I was eighteen I stopped karate. I did the other martial arts, but I stopped karate because I started travelling. And I kind of...when you are an athlete, you don't go out much. You don't have a lot of friends.So I made some friends and then we started going clubbing and dancing and drinking and all the other stuff. I saw the other side of life and karate all of a sudden didn't seem so fascinating anymore, you know?I trained less, but I was eating the same. And when you're an athlete and you train 6 times a week, maybe 12 times a week, and you eat a certain quality of food and a certain quantity of food, you're balanced. You don't put on weight.Piling on the poundsBut when you stop that, when you take your training to 3 days a week, and you eat the same, you start putting on weight. And you put on weight fast. So that's what happened. I stopped karate and I went to visit my father who was living in France. With my friend. And basically what we were doing was we were eating McDonald's and other fast food at midnight, and you know, watching movies...Me: Whoa! So like the worst time ever to eat the worst kind of food ever!Alexandra: Exactly! So I think I was there for 2 months during the summer holidays. And when I came back I was 10 kilograms heavier and my mom was like, 'What happened to you!'Me: Ohhh!Alexandra: Of course, going from 49 kilos to 60 kilos doesn't seem like such a big thing. But for me it was a huge contrast.Me: Yeah, because you're not like super tall, right?Alexandra: Yeah, exactly. And as an athlete I was skinny, as skinny as...Me: Skinny as a rail, right?Alexandra: Right! So for me that was a bit of a psychological downfall.Me: Yeah, of course.Weightloss: a fast-moving trainAlexandra: No-one was looking at me in any other way, but it was how I saw myself. I mean, I was used to being lean, being fast and strong. And all of a sudden – well not all of a sudden, over a few months – that changed.Me: But it creeps up on you as well, right? I mean, that's the difficult bit. You said you put it on fast, but I imagine it wasn't like all of a sudden you woke up and the 10 kilos were there, right?Alexandra: No, it wasn't. It was a few months. I don't remember exactly because it was a while ago, but probably when I was in France I put a few kilograms on and then...I see weightloss like a fast moving train. It gains momentum. You put on a little bit of weight and then faster and faster until...Me: Out of control!Alexandra: Yeah, and with weightloss the same, but you have to stop the train and then go back and build the momentum. So that's a weightloss lesson, for example.Me: Yeah, yeah.Alexandra's second turning point: in the poolAlexandra: So one turning point was with Coca-Cola, and the second turning point was with the fast foods when I gained weight and I just didn't feel good about myself anymore.Me: So then you made a massive commitment at that point. What did you say to yourself? Were you just like 'This ends here, I have to just change everything'?Alexandra: Well I actually remember – I don't know if this is the first, but I do remember – I went swimming. There's a 50-meter Olympic swimming pool that I learned to swim in. And I was struggling to do 3 or 4 lengths!Me: Wow!Alexandra: In the past I could do 15, 20...I could just do it! So my fitness level was just...And that was the turning point. That scared me and I thought 'I need to get my fitness back'. And I think that was in 2007 when I became a runner.Motivation for changeMe: Did you start both at the same time then?Alexandra: Yeah, I think from what I remember that I used running to lose the weight. I was also going to the United States, it was the first time that summer and I was going with a working travel program on the shore of the Atlantic. At the beach. So that kind of motivated me more, because my swimming suits weren't fitting me anymore!Me: Oh no!Alexandra: My clothes weren't fitting anymore! Now I do have to say this, because it's really, really important. The people you surround yourself with.I had some very good friends. Very good friends, I learned a lot from them. However from a health and fitness point of view, they weren't the best people to be around me. So in the personal development world, you know, they say you're the average of the 5 people you surround yourself with.And looking back, I didn't know about personal development then. I know now, but looking back, I was drinking a lot. And I could take the spirits. I wouldn't have a hangover. It was so easy for me, that I could just drink.Me: (laughs) I can't do that!Alexandra: (laughs) Well, I can't do that either, it's been 4 or 5 years since I've had a sip of alcohol, so...yeah. The swimming pool, that's what turned me around and made me start running and made the commitment to give up the fast foods.And my mom had a very important role in this. She understood that in order for me to lose the weight and get back to normal, I needed to make some drastic but gradual changes.The plan of attackMe: So what were those changes? Because I know you said you cut out a lot of foods, right?Alexandra: Yeah. So first of all, the drinks. My mom always said, 'Don't drink Pepsi and Coca-Cola and all this stuff. These are the first things to cut out.' So we started with that.And I say 'we' because my mom was there all the time. She always said, 'Have one day a week where you can eat whatever you want. Don't deprive your body because then you will crave it'.And she's right again, right? (laughs) Moms just know!So one day a week I would have, I don't know, whatever I wanted. But it's important to say that I made these decisions. My mom supported and advised. She's not a nutritionist but she has a very good intuition when it comes to nutrition and weightloss.The next foods to go were...The second thing I cut out was pretty much anything that had sugar. So any chocolates, ice creams, anything that tasted sweet.And then we started taking out the potatoes, oh and bread. Bread was actually together with the drinks. The drinks and the bread were like the first things we started with.Me: But when you started, you did it gradually, right? First you cut out the bread and the drinks for a little while, but you were still eating ice cream and other sweet things?Easy does itAlexandra: Yeah. But I wasn't replacing. I was still eating the same amount. So it wasn't like, 'Oh, I'm not gonna drink Pepsi anymore but I'm gonna eat 3 more ice creams!' (laughs) I wasn't eating ice cream every day, I was eating ice cream once or twice a week maybe.Me: But I think that's a really interesting point though. That you did it really gradually. Because most of us are like, 'Right! No more ice cream, no more bread, I'm gonna eat super healthy every day'. And then like 3 days later we just fall down, right? Whereas you did it really gradually, right?So for example, just to give people an idea of the timeline, you know? When you said the drinks and the bread, do you remember how long you went before you decided to cut out the next thing? Was it really like...was there a system behind it? Or did you just go with what you felt?How you can know when you're ready to cut out a foodAlexandra: At that point I didn't know about systems. I just went with what felt comfortable. So if I was still thinking about having Sprite or another fizzy drink, then it meant that I'm not ready for taking out the next food or foods.Me: Oh, that makes sense! Oh!Alexandra: Yeah. So once my craving for something or the thought of having something disappeared...Now for example if I think of a sandwich, no matter how good the sandwich looks, I don't really want it, right?So I guess we went with how I felt. And I think to give people an idea, I probably would go 4 to 6 weeks of taking out one group of foods. Or one food, not necessarily one group of foods.Me: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, because they say it takes at least 30 days if not longer to establish a new habit, right?Here's how to test yourselfThat's really cool, I just want to really emphasize that point, because it would never have occurred to me to cut out one thing and then wait until the cravings for that one thing disappeared before cutting out the next thing! I think that is amazing! I've never heard that before, actually.Alexandra: Well, it's just going with what you feel. It's a test. If you think about having bread, how do you feel? Do you really want it? You know, if you have a slice of bread in front of you, are you gonna take it? Or can you just ignore it?So I think that's when the change happens. When you can go to the next phase.Change for lifeMe: Yeah! Plus the other thing that I love about that is...that's like lifetime change, right? That's not the kind of thing where you fall down again after a year. I mean you hear about people who deprive themselves for months and months and then they just...they manage to go past the 30 days and yet they still fall down because they haven't passed the test yet!Alexandra: Exactly! And no matter, it can be 30 days, it can be...you can do the same habit for 2, 3, 6 months and then go back to it. Seriously. Nothing is guaranteed.Me: Yeah, of course.Alexandra: That's why I don't go with 30 days or 44 or 60...Me: Well, we're all different as well, right? One food isn't going to have the same effect on everybody, right?Alexandra: Exactly, yeah.How to refuse politely...Me: Wow, that's really cool. Oh and I wanted to ask you, because you said that in those first 3 to 6 months, that was the worst, right? And that sometimes you had people offering you other foods, foods that you don't eat and stuff. So how did you manage to a) resist the temptation and b) manage to say no in a nice way? (laughs)Alexandra: (laughs) Yeah, well I don't know how to say no in a nice way actually! (laughs) I say “No thank you” and that's it!Me: (laughs) Oh! Ok! The truth comes out... (laughs)Alexandra: Right, well it's about educating the people around me. It's about how you educate the people around you, or reeducate.So they know I like this kind of cheese, it's like a kind of cottage cheese, a type of cottage cheese pie that we make in the east. And I love it, you know? I always loved it. So all of my family, when you go for Easter, they always have it for me. And it has the right amount of cheese in it... (laughs)And you know, in the first 6 months it was difficult because I was trying to cut out all these things. But there you have it in front of you on the table! So...Me: And made by people for you, right? So the guilt thing could come in if you let it, right?Alexandra: Exactly!What to say to friends and familySo there were 2 ways, well a few ways, actually, out of this situation that people can use.First of all, you say “Thank you, but I can't eat anymore”. You know, after your meal, you are full. “Just leave it for later”, right?Sometimes it's good to tell people, “I don't eat this anymore, but I'll just have a small piece”. And you just have a small piece! Not a whole slice, you know?And here's what you tell yourselfBut it's good to voice it. What you tell yourself, that's what you're going to believe. So if you tell yourself, “I can't eat this” or “I can't have this” or “I'm not allowed this”, it's like an interdiction. You tell your brain you can't have it and it wants more.Me: And you want it, yeah.Alexandra: So what I did – unknowingly I did it – I said, “ I don't have this”. I mean, it's my choice not to have this any more. And in my head I always said that, it's my choice to have this or to not have this.Alexandra: And then, you know, people insist, because, you know, that's how family is...Me: Yup!Get a family member to support youAlexandra: And they're right...I love them all. But I have to say that after a few times of insisting, I would start to get a bit bothered or annoyed by it, and that's when they would leave me alone. (laughs)But also my mom was a big supporter, to be honest. Because she would say “No, no, she doesn't eat that”. And when my mom would say it, then everyone would just let me be.Me: Oh, that's really nice!Alexandra: So it's very important if you can have someone in your family to support you and to, you know, be on your side for the first year or so. That makes a huge difference.Make the right choice, every single dayAnd if not, always remember that your mind is the most powerful. So you make the choice, every single day.Me: I love that. I'm glad you said that again because I love that idea of making the right choice every single day and remembering that it's always a choice. Because it's kind of like reminding yourself how powerful you are over your life, right?Alexandra: Absolutely!Me: Yeah, that's really cool!Alexandra: Many times – even today – when I have pizza...Well, I can have pizza maybe 3 times a year even though it's one of my favorite foods. I always say I want pizza but I never get it.How to take charge of your mindEven if I have a pastry or an ice cream, I always tell myself, “I choose to have this. I don't need it, and I don't crave it, but I choose to have it today”. And if I do crave that stuff, I don't have it in that moment.This is basically one of the food discipline lessons. It's like disciplining my mind to say that if it craves something, it doesn't mean it's gonna have it. So there's no point in craving it. It's when I decide.Me: Oh!Alexandra: There's this book, The Chimp Paradox. You know it.Me: Yeah.Alexandra: It's talking with your chimp, telling it “You're gonna have this when I tell you, not when you want!”Me: Exactly, yeah!Alexandra: So that's one of the food discipline lessons: don't have them when you crave them.Cravings: what they really mean...Me: Yeah! That's really good! And also because some people think that...I think it can be an excuse sometimes. Not all the time, but sometimes...especially if it's something unhealthy. Some people think, 'Oh well, I have this craving because I'm lacking in iron' or some other nutrient. I mean, I don't know what your take is on that?My take is that if it's a healthy food you're craving, yeah then it's probably true. But if it's an unhealthy one...Alexandra: Yeah, absolutely. That's right. If it's unhealthy...If you lack iron, get foods that have iron. Or, I don't know, vitamin E. Get foods that have that. Don't lie to yourself. Don't say, 'I want this pastry' or whatever it is. Or chips, or ice cream, or whatever, because you crave the healthy stuff that's in the chips.If you crave salt, that means maybe you've trained and you haven't replaced your salts. But you can do that without eating chips.Me: Yeah, exactly, yeah. (laughs)Take your time with the processOh I remember what I wanted to ask you. When I read your story on your website, I remember you were saying that it was really important to you to take your time with the whole process. I think you said the whole process took...How long did it take? Like 1 to 2 years or something?Alexandra: Yes, it took about 2 years to get to a stable point, so I took the 10 kilograms off. Then I would know that I could eat other stuff and not put on weight.But I have to say that I did not want to deprive myself and restrict myself, right? So in the 2 years my weight went up and down. You know, 2 kilos down then half a kilo up, then 1 kilo down and 2 kilos up. So up and down, up and down. I wasn't looking to starve myself. I didn't want to be hungry. That was the last thing.Me: Oh yeah, yeah.Alexandra: So I would eat quite a lot of healthy stuff. I would eat quantity and quality. Both. So that's why my weight went slowly. 1 to 2 years.But at the end of 2 years I could start eating other stuff as well without worrying about it. Although if I had eaten cakes and stuff in the first 6 months to 1 year, I don't think I would have actually taken the weight down. Because I would have just fallen back into...Me: Old habits, right?Alexandra: I still have that one day a week. That's really important.Me: Yeah, that's really good! And so for the other 6 days a week, what do you eat typically now?What Alexandra eats nowAlexandra: Well, since then, this is what I eat. I would say 80% of my food is fresh vegetables. I have salads and fresh vegetables in my fridge day in and day out, 80%. Then about 10% is dairy, 10% is meat. Meat I would say...turkey and...turkey, actually. Chicken very little, and the rest is mostly when I go home and my mom says “Have this because it's healthy”. And I say “Mom even if I don't have it, I'm not going to be unhealthy”. But yeah, meat's about 10%.Me: And fruit? Do you have fruit as well?Alexandra: Yes, I have berries, but not as much as I used to. Berries I have, but not the other fruit. The reason for that is because fruit is healthy but it still has a lot of sugar. I love fruit! I can eat 2 or 3 kilos of apples a day! Without my stomach having any problems.Me: Wow! That's a lot of apples!Alexandra: Yeah, I can eat that. Or clementines...I like them. They're fresh, they're sweet, they have water so they hydrate me, so I like it. So for me fruit is...I need to be in control, because otherwise I could just eat fruit all day!Me: Oh, OK!Alexandra: Yes, it's healthy, but it's a lot of sugar.Alexandra's other food guidelinesMe: And is that something that you suggest to the people that you train? To the people that you work with? To eat very little fruit?Alexandra: Well, I advise them 5 a day, as a nutritional guideline. But obviously you can have 6 or 7, you can have less. Everyone has to know where they're at.Like I don't need that much fruit. I need vegetables, fresh vegetables. If I don't have vegetables...Red peppers, I like red peppers because they are very refreshing with all the water. I like baby plum tomatoes because again, they're slightly sweet, but they have water in them. So for me if I don't have that, at the end of the day I feel like I'm missing something.For some people, if they don't have some fruit they'll feel like that. So you kind of have to look at it and judge the what and how to have the minerals and vitamins that you need. But again I take, upon my Sensei's advice, I take a multivitamin. Because I train so much, he said 'You need to get this, because the foods nowadays are not the ones you grew up with'.You can still do it, even working full timeMe: And one thing that I read in your story where I almost fell off my chair, I mean I was like amazed. When you started running and eating really healthily and doing all the food and stuff, you were working like 8 hours a day? Is that right? In an office?Alexandra: Yeah, at some point I was working 8 hours a day, 9 to 5.Me: Oh wow!Alexandra: So in the morning I would wake up at 5. And I was a student back then, yes?Alexandra's routine (in a full time job)This was my routine, and I loved it actually. At 5 am I would wake up, by 5:15 I was out the door going for a run, running 1 hour. 1 hour meant 12 k for me. Then I'd come back and cook breakfast and cook lunch, had breakfast and took the lunch to go. I took my bike, because I could cycle about half an hour to my office.I was working in corporate banking back then. And, you know, I would stay for 8 hours there. And like anyone who works in an office, people would come with chocolates and with biscuits and all the other stuff. My answer was always, “Thank you, but I don't eat this kind of stuff”. Not like that, but “Thank you, I don't eat that”.And from time to time if it was someone's birthday, I would take a small piece of chocolate. But one – and one every once in a blue moon. Most of the time though I'd say no thank you, even if I was hungry. I would have a tea, I don't know, I would just...Me: Yeah, the reason I ask is because there are so many people who are working full time in an office, and they already struggle with just eating healthy, you know? So being able to do that, plus working in the exercise regimen as well, I mean I just find that really incredible.And evening classes on top of everything elseAlexandra: And after that actually I would cycle to university which was about 1 hour cycling. I would have my master's degree and most of my classes were in the evening by then. It was full time, but classes were in the evening. I would have my master's degree classes, and then I would be back at 7 or 8. Then I would eat something, and then go ice skating if it was winter, or go for another run if it was not winter.Me: Wow! And you were still competing at that stage, right?Alexandra: No, at that stage I wasn't competing anymore. That was...I think I was 19 or 20 years old. So I left karate behind for a while and then I started another martial art: Daitoryu, the ancestor of aikido. I don't remember when I started it, I was doing it at the weekend, 3 hours on Saturday and 3 hours on Sunday I think. It was in the time I was in corporate banking. I think that's what it was, if I remember well.Me: So then how did you...You were in corporate banking and then 1 to 2 years later, you lose all the weight, you get really trim again, and then you went back to competing, is that right?Competing againAlexandra: I went back to competing when I moved to England. So I moved to England when I was 24, I went to London when I was 25, so about 5 years ago. I joined the SKC – Shotokan Karate England. They invited me in the squad and I've been in the squad for 3 and a half years now I think. And now I wear the English flag!Me: That's really cool! That's so cool! I really love your story, I think it's just absolutely incredible. And I really want people to know where they can find you, because you help other people do the same, right?Can you say a little bit about what you're helping people with now, and what you've got going on at the moment?How Alexandra helps others nowAlexandra: Right, so now I specialize in working with runners. I'm very passionate about body mechanics. And that's because I've had a lot of injuries when I was 12 or 13. Structural injuries, damage to joints. So my interest in how the body functions was fueled by that curiosity to understand why that happens.So now I specialize in working with runners who experience these injuries. Obviously not any injury. Some injuries you need to see a physio, osteopath, chiropractor, it depends on the injury. But a lot of aches and pains come from the way we use...the way we move, particularly if you're a runner.I'm also qualified to work with lower back pain...people...so most lower back pain is due to activity - a lack of it, or the wrong type of activity and poor posture, so we work on that. And obviously the nutrition, the food discipline lessons which are part of my system.How people can get in touch with me is through themerisoutechnique.com - or easier – themtechnique.com – m like Mike. And should I say something about my event in the summer?Me: Yes! There's an event you're doing that I've got to have you talk about, because I just think it's fantastic! I looked at the description and if I didn't have events of my own going on, I would be on a plane! I want to hear all about it!Alexandra's summer eventsAlexandra: It's called Dracula's Retreat.Me: Yay!Alexandra: As the name goes, it's at Dracula's castle. Well, it's not at Dracula's castle, it's like 1 kilometer away.Me: But still! That's pretty close!Alexandra: (laughs) Some people think it's scary, but it's not scary.Me: No, it looks beautiful!Alexandra: Yes, and in summer because we will be in the mountains, you have the green, you have the forest, you have trails to go up the mountain.3 aspects to the retreatSo Dracula's Retreat has 3 components.One is touristic, so obviously you learn about the culture of Transylvania, you learn about Dracula's story, you visit the castle, then another fortress which is close by. Then it's the fitness, so we will go hiking. Now hiking is more like trekking. So we don't need axes...Me: (laughs) You're not gonna be chopping down the jungle and stuff.Alexandra: (laughs) Not on this occasion, no. And natural movement fitness. Now if we have runners, we go running. And actually we do have runners as well. And natural movement fitness, which has to do with animal movements, balance, logs: carrying, throwing, lifting logs, slack lines...So for people who don't know, that's a flat type of rope, you'd call it. But it's flat and it's slack, so for upper body exercises. Hanging off of branches...And it's all about exploring nature, leveraging nature. And understanding that to get fit and healthy and to experience the joy of training, you don't really need a gym. So people who are bored with the gym, they come to me, basically. And then there's the social part because you get to be with a group of people and you do the whole thing...The food is also a very important part of it.Me: Yup, I'll bet!Alexandra: Trying to keep it as healthy as possible, but it will be traditional. So there will be the odd pleasure for everyone.Mindfulness and meditationMe: Yup! And there's a meditation aspect to it too, right? A mindfulness component to it?Alexandra: Well, yes. Natural movement and balance exercises first of all, you know, you need that body awareness and mindfulness. But we will go through guided meditations. Guided meditations are a big part of Qigong and Tai chi which are a big part of my personal training.We will practice breathing exercises, mindfulness meditations, and some Qigong exercises. We're gonna look at what Chinese medicine says and how the meridians connect to the internal organs. I'm not a Chinese medicine expert, but I read a lot and I practice a lot, so...I'll be just sharing the knowledge.Me: Oh, that's really cool. And so where's the best place for people to find information about the retreat? I mean, I'll link to it in the shownotes, but...Alexandra: Simply draculasretreat.comMe: Oh! That's easy! Alexandra thank you so much, I mean I just love your story, I mean, it's inspiring and also I learned a lot. I can't wait to hear how Dracula's Retreat went, and I'm definitely coming on one of them!Alexandra: Yes, it's going to be every year. This is it. I have such a big vision for it, and it's going to be an amazing adventure, really. I'm taking people on an adventure, not only on a retreat.Me: No, of course. That's really cool.Well thank you so much, I'll link to everything that you've mentioned in the shownotes so that people can find it easily. I'm going to share our food tip now, and thank you so much! Awesome!Food for sportRight, so I also mentioned at the beginning of this episode that I'd share with you a tiny but amazing food that is an incredible source of protein, energy, healthy fats and calcium. Not only is it a fantastic food for sport, but it's a great bone food as well. And that food is...are you ready?Chia seeds!Benefits of chia seedsChia seeds are one of the best foods ever for everybody to eat in my opinion. I don't really care if you're vegan, vegetarian, paleo, junk food addict – you want to be eating these little guys. They have so many benefits it's ridiculous. I'll link to a really good article that I found in the show notes if you'd like to read more about the health benefits and the nutritional analysis of chia seeds. And a recipe of my own as well.Eating chia seeds has been linked to not only bone health, but also gut health, stabilizing your blood sugar and helping reduce inflammation.Components of chia seedsOne cool thing about chia seeds is that they do contain a good amount of fiber but they're also gentle on the gut. So this is important for people who have trouble digesting high-fiber foods like broccoli and cauliflower. Chia seeds actually are soothing for your whole digestive tract.They're small and hard when you get them in the packet, but when you soak them or when they mix with your digestive juices and things, they puff up and they're quite viscous which sounds horrible but they're actually quite delicious!They also contain minerals like phosphorus, manganese and magnesium, as well as calcium. And for those of you who don't eat dairy and you get people asking where you get your calcium, you can tell them that ounce per ounce, chia seeds actually contain more calcium than most dairy products.Chia seeds are also a complete protein, so if you don't eat meat and you get the 'where do you get your protein' question, well you can tell them that one ounce of chia seeds has 4 grams of protein. So you won't wilt.Why chia seeds are a great food for sport On the contrary. Besides providing protein, calcium, minerals and antioxidants, chia seeds also release energy over a long period of time rather than all at once. That's why they're such a good food for sport.Also if you've got a long day ahead of you and you know you won't be able to eat for a while, chia seeds can help keep you going for longer. You can try this out for yourself actually, have yourself a chia seed pudding for breakfast and see how you feel.How you use chia seedsWhich brings me to how you eat chia seeds. A lot of people just sprinkle the dry seeds over food, like you would any seed. Over salads, for example. Because they absorb liquid, you can also use them to thicken sauces and other dishes.But my favorite way to eat chia seeds is to soak them in some nut milk for an amazing pudding. It's a bit like tapioca, so if you like tapioca, you'll love chia seed pudding.There's a lot of them out there on the internet which you can find, but I've got a gorgeous recipe for chia seed pudding on my website which I'll link to in the shownotes, along with other recipes as well.And as an extra special bonus for you, Alexandra has an extra special recipe that uses chia seeds!Alexandra's super food for sport recipeAlexandra: Right! So I compete a lot. I go to a competition at 8 am and I come back home at 9 or 10 pm, so it's a very long day. And in 12 hours, I probably compete 10 or 15 minutes throughout the day.Me: Wow!Alexandra: Yeah, sometimes I have my fights at like 6 or 7 pm. So it's like, it did happen, I had one fight at 7 pm. You have one event in the evening. Because it's senior – senior meaning plus 21 - you have to wait a lot.So I read in a book this chia seed drink. The first time I had it was the world championships in Bulgaria, and I did not need water, or food, or anything else for the whole day. I was not hungry. And it was really amazing, because by 4 or 5 pm, I would be so dehydrated that nothing – tea, water...No matter how much I would drink, I would be dehydrated. My tissues, my body...my body was just saturated with water.Having this drink, what it did was it kept my energy levels up. I did not need to eat solid foods because it gives you protein, omega 6 and 3 fats, and in the drink it also has carbohydrates. You also have something that gives you a bit of a zing.So I was with my energy levels up, nourished, hydrated, focused...pretty awesome. Strong! Everyone else by 7 pm, they were down, you know, they can't drink anymore...but I was, yeah!How you make itFor the drink, how I make it, so everyone needs to test and see whatever they like. 500 ml of water, 2 tablespoons of chia seeds, the juice of 1 lime...sometimes I put 1 ½ depending on how sour I want it. And 2 or 3 teaspoons of organic honey. You just mix it up, shake it up, and it becomes like a gel to be honest. You just drink it throughout the day.I have 3 or 4 bottles with me when I go to a competition. And I had 3 competitions already. I tested it – it works!No drugs, just food for sportMe: Wow! That is so cool! And I think you said somebody...you were afraid they were gonna think you were on like, you know, performance enhancing drugs!Alexandra: Yeah! Well, you know, it's a food. So if they were to test anything, they wouldn't find anything besides chia seeds! (laughs)Me: (laughs) They'd find a lot of chia seeds!Alexandra: A lot of chia seeds! But yeah, people look a bit weird at you because the bottle is see-through, you know? You can see all the bits, and they don't really know what it is. So you have to say, “It's chia seeds, it's a food”.But you know, it's not their problem. As long as you don't have any weird substances. And you don't need weird substances, you know? You have all these foods...try this! This is good!And for runnersAnd if you're a runner and you do marathons and stuff, see if you can create a thicker gel. You put it in those pouches, and it's a lot better than the geogels and all that other stuff.Me: Oh yeah, yeah.Alexandra: Much, much, much better, so...Me: That's fantastic, yay! You guys have to try it! I'm gonna try it! Thank you so much!Alexandra: My pleasure.Have YOU got a story to share?So I hope you've enjoyed Alexandra's amazing story today as well as our food tips. And if you've got a crazy, true story to share (and you'd like to know what food could have been helpful, or even saved the day in your situation), I'd love to hear from you! Got a question, or a comment?Got a question, or a comment? Pop a note below in the comments, that would be awesome. You can also subscribe to the podcast to listen 'on the go' in iTunes.I hope you have an amazing day. Thank you so much for being here with me to share in my Clean Food, Dirty Stories. Bye for now!RESOURCESAlexandra's website: http://themerisoiutechnique.com/unleash-your-physical-potentialAlexandra's retreat: http://draculasretreat.com/Book The Chimp ParadoxChia seed pudding recipe: http://rockingrawchef.com/gluten-free-rice-pudding-recipeOther 5-minute recipe ebooks: https://rockingrawchef.com/5-minute-recipes/Article on benefits of chia seeds: https://authoritynutrition.com/11-proven-health-benefits-of-chia-seeds/Alexandra Merisoiu, The Body Engineer, is the Founder of The Merisoiu Technique Institute and Dracula’s Retreat. She is also a qualified Low Back Pain Prevention Exercise Instructor and REPS registered. She specialises in working with runners, beginners and advanced, who want to run faster and further, with less effort and fewer injuries. This is done through natural movement fitness and running technique and mechanics.

Almost a decade ago my life changed when I read Jinny Ditzler's book Your Best Year Yet. At the time I was struggling in my real estate development business and had not yet cracked into my speaking business. I read this book on the front side of a new year on the recommendation of a dear friend. Rather than quickly flip through, I read it like it was a workbook. Pen in hand, I took notes, answered her 10-Questions and in doing so created a one-page plan to attack that year.  I had great success and this year, I decided to walk through the same process with my team. We did so back in December and it was fantastic! So much so that we asked: How do we share this amazing, simple 10-Step process with the Live Inspired community? Friends, today, I am thrilled to have Jinny on the show, literally walking each of us through this life-changing plan step by step. Can you believe that? We are lucky! I am so touched that I get to share the gift of Jinny coaching us through how to make 2017 our best year yet. Jinny will remind us of the "indestructible goodness and immense possibility" within each of us. This podcast will set you up with a one-page plan to make 2017 your best year yet. Here we go! "This will give you a clear way to "cut your way out of the fog" through concrete commitments." Here are my key takeaways: The premise of Jinny's book Best Year Yet: You have the answers to achieve your success and well being. Through the book, you'll answer 10 questions that will result in you outlining how you'll achieve your success this year.  Questions: What did I accomplish last year? What were my biggest disappointments last year? What did I learn? (Uncover a motto for the new year, turning negatives to positives: Be grateful. Not 'Don't be ungrateful.') How did I limit myself? How can I stop? What's getting in the way? What are your limiting beliefs? What are your values? What roles do I play (no more than 8)? What role is my major focus in the new year? What are my (specific, measurable) goals for each of my roles? What are my top 10 goals? How can I achieve my plan (my top 10 goals)? This will not be HARD. You just need to have discipline.  Set monthly goals. Keep score to make sure you are moving the needle. Get a life coach or an accountability partner to hold you accountable and talk about the progress you are making on your plan.  Prefer to take the 'Best Year Yet' Course? Sign up here. Order Jinny's Best Year Yet book here.  Jinny Ditzler's Live Inspired 7  1. What is the best book you've ever read?  The Tibetan Book of Living & Dying. 2. Tomorrow you discover your wealthy uncle shockingly dies at the age of 103; leaving you millions. What would you do? I'd take care of myself and my family where we don't feel fully cared for. Then I'd find people up to good and invest in them. 3. Your house is on fire, all living things and people are out. You have the opportunity to run in and grab one item. What would it be? My laptop. 4. You are sitting on a bench overlooking a gorgeous beach. You have the opportunity to have a long conversation with anyone living or dead. Who would it be? Mom. She's not with us anymore, but she was an angel.  5. What is the best advice you’ve ever received? Where there is a will there is a way. 6. Looking back, what advice would you give yourself at age 20? Relax.  7. It’s been said that all great people can have their lives summed up in one sentence. How do you want yours to read? She cared deeply about others and committed her life to showing them how to use the best that's in them. *** If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe, rate and review this podcast on iTunes and anywhere you get your podcasts! You'll be the first to know when a new episode is available AND you will help grow our LIVE INSPIRED Movement.  I can't wait to see you here next Thursday! Until then, remember: Today is your day. Live Inspired. Live Inspired with John everyday on Facebook & Twitter and get his Monday Motivation email: www.JohnOLearyInspires.com/Monday-Morning 

In today's episode, Gastor sat down with Theda. Theda is a New York based singer, who recently put out her own EP. Heavy Hitter. We talk about her creation process, her mom's role in her career, and why it was so important to her to write her own material. On being self motivated in her early development as a singer: That was all me. I would do the research online, looking for contest to enter. Then I'd beg my mom to take me. On her mother's requirement that she earn everything she was given: Everything was earned. Everything. You want that new Eminem cd? I had to clean the kitchen. But I'm glad my mom did that because I'm ok with working for everything. On the role that her music plays in working through her darker moments: When I came out with these songs, my own parents were surprised about whats going on. I don't talk about things. It's uncomfortable talking. I'd rather sing the song. Stoops2Stages.com

日本の多くの大学では、学期末が近づいてきました。期末試験やレポートの準備に追われる学生さんも増えてくる季節です。 ここで一つ、こわいことを想像してみましょう。パソコンで作成していたレポートがもうすぐ完成を迎えつつあります。その時、突然システムがクラッシュして、今までの努力が水の泡に！さて、皆さんならどうしますか…？ 今回の会話では、こんな考えたくもないことが起こります。学期末のレポートに取り組んでいる学生さんにとっては、よい反面教師(?)となるかもしれませんね。You can't have too many backups! Image credit: Nappiness via Pixabay. CC0 Public Domain. ※パソコンのブラウザでお聞きの方は、下に表示されている緑色のプレーヤーで、セクション単位での頭出し・巻き戻しができます。 （オープニング→スロースピードの会話→解説→ナチュラルスピードの会話→エンディング） Download MP3 スマートフォン用 （14:04　7.0MB　初級〜中級） *** It's a Good Expression *** （今回の重要表現） What's up? = How are you? You look a little stressed out. 少しストレスでイライラしているみたいだね。 to work on ～に取り組む a report レポート ※「学生が授業で提出するレポート」は一般的にはa paper（米語）やan essay（イギリス英語）だが、a reportも使われる。 I probably should have (backed up the file) たぶんファイルのバックアップをすべきだった ※I should have＋[動詞の過去分詞形]で「私は～すべきだった」という過去を後悔する表現。 That's why you're supposed to back up your files! だからファイルをバックアップすべきなんだ！ ※to be supposed to＋[動詞の原形]で、「～するべきだ、～することになっている」 it shouldn't take as long as it did before 前（かかっていた）ほど長い時間はかからないはずだ ※ここでのshouldは「～するはずだ」。shouldのもうひとつの意味「～するべきだ」と同様に「当然」の意味を持つ。「書きたいことの一部は覚えているのだから、当然時間はそんなに長くかからないはずだ」 to turn in ～ / to turn ～ in ～を提出する to be done with = to be finished with Then I'd be done with it! = If I turned it in today, I would be done with it!（仮定法過去） to make a pot of coffee ポットにコーヒーを入れる put on some up-beat, energizing music アップテンポでエネルギッシュな音楽を流す ※「エネルギッシュ」はドイツ語由来の外来語で、英語ではenergeticやenergizingを使うことに注意。「アップテンポ」はup-tempoでもOK。 *** Script *** Homework Stress Scene: A late evening in a library M: What's up? You look a little stressed out. W: I was working on an important report, but then my computer crashed and I lost it all!! M: Really? Didn't you back up the file? W: Well, I probably should have, but I never expected my computer to crash. I just bought it last month! M: Oh, really? You must have picked a bad one then! But, you know, nobody ever expects their computer to crash. It just happens! That's why you're supposed to back up your files! W: I know, but I just needed to finish it and turn it in today. Then I'd be done with it! M: Yeah, but now you have to start all over again, don't you? W: Uhg! Don't remind me! I'll have to stay up all night rewriting it now. And even then I might not be able to finish. M: It's a lot of work, I'm sure. But at least you remember a bit of what you want to write, so it shouldn't take as long as it did before. W: Yeah, it'll only take three hours instead of six. M: Don't be so pessimistic! Worrying about it isn't going to help you any, right? W: No, it won't, but how am I supposed to NOT worry? M: I don't know. Just, make a pot of coffee, put on some up-beat, energizing music, and start writing! It'll probably be easier than you think. W: That's easy for you to say! You're not the one who has to write it. M: The sooner you start, the sooner you'll finish. And then you can properly relax and not have to worry about it anymore. W: Alright. That's a good point. Well, wish me luck! M: Good luck! You're going to need it! (Written by Lauren DeCosta)

日本の多くの大学では、学期末が近づいてきました。期末試験やレポートの準備に追われる学生さんも増えてくる季節です。 ここで一つ、こわいことを想像してみましょう。パソコンで作成していたレポートがもうすぐ完成を迎えつつあります。その時、突然システムがクラッシュして、今までの努力が水の泡に！さて、皆さんならどうしますか…？ 今回の会話では、こんな考えたくもないことが起こります。学期末のレポートに取り組んでいる学生さんにとっては、よい反面教師(?)となるかもしれませんね。You can't have too many backups! Image credit: Nappiness via Pixabay. CC0 Public Domain. ※パソコンのブラウザでお聞きの方は、下に表示されている緑色のプレーヤーで、セクション単位での頭出し・巻き戻しができます。 （オープニング→スロースピードの会話→解説→ナチュラルスピードの会話→エンディング） Download MP3 スマートフォン用 （14:04　7.0MB　初級〜中級） *** It's a Good Expression *** （今回の重要表現） What's up? = How are you? You look a little stressed out. 少しストレスでイライラしているみたいだね。 to work on ～に取り組む a report レポート ※「学生が授業で提出するレポート」は一般的にはa paper（米語）やan essay（イギリス英語）だが、a reportも使われる。 I probably should have (backed up the file) たぶんファイルのバックアップをすべきだった ※I should have＋[動詞の過去分詞形]で「私は～すべきだった」という過去を後悔する表現。 That's why you're supposed to back up your files! だからファイルをバックアップすべきなんだ！ ※to be supposed to＋[動詞の原形]で、「～するべきだ、～することになっている」 it shouldn't take as long as it did before 前（かかっていた）ほど長い時間はかからないはずだ ※ここでのshouldは「～するはずだ」。shouldのもうひとつの意味「～するべきだ」と同様に「当然」の意味を持つ。「書きたいことの一部は覚えているのだから、当然時間はそんなに長くかからないはずだ」 to turn in ～ / to turn ～ in ～を提出する to be done with = to be finished with Then I'd be done with it! = If I turned it in today, I would be done with it!（仮定法過去） to make a pot of coffee ポットにコーヒーを入れる put on some up-beat, energizing music アップテンポでエネルギッシュな音楽を流す ※「エネルギッシュ」はドイツ語由来の外来語で、英語ではenergeticやenergizingを使うことに注意。「アップテンポ」はup-tempoでもOK。 *** Script *** Homework Stress Scene: A late evening in a library M: What's up? You look a little stressed out. W: I was working on an important report, but then my computer crashed and I lost it all!! M: Really? Didn't you back up the file? W: Well, I probably should have, but I never expected my computer to crash. I just bought it last month! M: Oh, really? You must have picked a bad one then! But, you know, nobody ever expects their computer to crash. It just happens! That's why you're supposed to back up your files! W: I know, but I just needed to finish it and turn it in today. Then I'd be done with it! M: Yeah, but now you have to start all over again, don't you? W: Uhg! Don't remind me! I'll have to stay up all night rewriting it now. And even then I might not be able to finish. M: It's a lot of work, I'm sure. But at least you remember a bit of what you want to write, so it shouldn't take as long as it did before. W: Yeah, it'll only take three hours instead of six. M: Don't be so pessimistic! Worrying about it isn't going to help you any, right? W: No, it won't, but how am I supposed to NOT worry? M: I don't know. Just, make a pot of coffee, put on some up-beat, energizing music, and start writing! It'll probably be easier than you think. W: That's easy for you to say! You're not the one who has to write it. M: The sooner you start, the sooner you'll finish. And then you can properly relax and not have to worry about it anymore. W: Alright. That's a good point. Well, wish me luck! M: Good luck! You're going to need it! (Written by Lauren DeCosta)

Q. There is a company called Search Initiatives that is looking for investors. It is supposedly going public sometime in the next year or so. Have you heard of it and if so, do you have any opinion on it? Thanks. "We have a firm commitment underwriting from Maxim Securities to raise at least $50 million. The IPO will not only provide our investors with liquidity but will provide Search Initiatives with the funds necessary to maintain our leadership in the U.S..." A. I've never heard of Search Initiatives, but a quick Google Search of "Search Initiatives IPO" reveals more than enough to make me run in the other direction. https://www.google.com/search?q=search+initiatives+ipo http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Search-Initiatives-Elocal-Listing/nationwide/Search-Initiatives-Elocal-Listing-Investment-Scam-Temecula-California-338359 Scam Pre-IPO's – Company shares are offered directly to unsuspecting investors based on the premise that the company will be going public in the very near future. This exploitation plays on an investor's eagerness to partake in what could be a lucrative Initial Public Offering but, these companies either do not exist or are marginally successful and are not financially ready to "go public". And why doesn't anything about the supposed IPO with Maxim Securities leading the way come up if you Google https://www.google.com/search?q=search+initiatives+ipo+maxim Q. Any interest in $BABA sub 90? A. I think $BABA will go up. I don't want to risk my own hard-earned money on $BABA, a Chinese-based company based in Cayman Islands with a very convoluted share structure. Read this: "It is not clear after looking over the structure just what the hell the holder of the stk actually owns if anything, except for a piece of a shell corp in the Cayman Islands. It is like a modern derivative, a betting vehicle, more a state of mind that a productive piece of anything when push comes to shove. http://bit.ly/1DoO1Qf" Q. Are you expecting a big correction in Nasdaq?? A. No, I've been writing for the last week or so that, including in my report this morning that: "The path of least resistance for the broader stock markets remains sideways with a slight upward bias." Q. $AMBA: What are your expectations for $AMBA? I feel like I have missed the move up. Thanks. A. $AMBA'S been on fire but not as much as its higher-profile customer $GPRO. Looking out five years from now, I think you'll see teens wearing AMBA-based cams everywhere they go. I could see a HD-cam sales hitting 3-4 billion per year. Mobile phone unit sales are climbing towards 2 billion already and most all of those will have cameras in them, so a 3-4 billion unit per year market for HD cams and the chips that run them isn't that far off. Q. Hi Cody, Can you add color on $SNE? Aside from their library of titles, what attracts you to them? Also, do you think their recently announced TV box is a good move considering there are established competing products? Are you planning to add to lower your cost basis here? A. I've added near $18-19 on $SNE and am just letting that ride for now. I'd probably add if it got down closer to $16 and would definitely buy another tranche of SNE if it got down $15 or so. As for the reasons why-- remember $HPQ at $15 when it'd been crushed for messing up its businesses and overpaying for bad acquisitions and stuff? I think $SNE is similarly crushed for messing up its businesses right now and if they get the ship righted at all, the stock would double. If Sony wearables or TVs ever take off, the stock would triple or quadruple. And if everything on the planet goes right for Sony in the next few years, the stock could be a 5-10 bagger by this time next decade. Of course, if it doesn't right itself, the stock will be dead money and/or lower than its current $17ish quote. Q. Cody, what would be a good entry point for $AAPL? A. Glad you asked. I thought I'd included this paragraph in this morning's report too, but it seems it got cut off at the end for some reason (probably because I hit "Cut" to move it at one point and forgot to hit "Paste" later). "If I didn't own any $AAPL, I'd start scaling into it with a small tranche of about 1/5 of whatever a full position is for you without waiting for a pullback. Then I'd look at buying a second tranche if it gets hit even just 3-4% in the near-term. And then just be patient about buying the next two-three tranches. It's always possible that $AAPL gets hit 20% or more at some point, and although I don't expect that to happen any time soon, I've owned it for 11 years and it does happen." Q. Hi Cody. Love your service. Invaluable!! I get the tranche approach and always apply that strategy. I haven't established any positions in the 3-D printing basket, would you do so now? If so, just $SSYS? Or would you do $DDD as well? Thank you so much for your hard work and everything you do. As an aside, Scutify is the best!! A. We made some decent money owning $DDD early on in the 3-D Printing Bubble but I sold it long ago back in the $80s or so when I got sick of management's hype-ful press releases and the way I always felt like they were trying to sell me something when I heard them talk or met them. I'm sticking with SSYS but would definitely use a small tranche approach and start slowly with it and give it some room to pull back as you scale in over time. It's a very volatile stock and sector. Good luck. Thanks for the kind words too! Q. Cody: I am hearing lot of positives on $TWTR stock. What are you thinking of it for a near term into next earnings or so? A. I think $TWTR's doing much better monetizing their user base but I think they're struggling to grow that user base. Depending on what the markets weigh more in the next report, is how the stock will trade. I'd rather own $FB than $TWTR and I do. Q. Cody: I see that $AMZN is not getting any love and all the comps and some investors I know are positive $AMZN. Its earnings in October. I see you have $AMZN at 8 ratings and for short term do you see it goes up into earnings? A. Feet to fire, I'd rather be long than $AMZN into year-end and that's why I have it rated an 8 out of 10 right now. The company's lack of earnings power and margin power is in focus as Alibaba's $BABA's own earnings and margin power is so much stronger. Not a fair comparison, but who said the market is fair? I do think $AMZN can double from here over the next couple years if they keep growing top-line as fast as they have been for years now. Q. Cody, are you thinking of adding more physical gold at these levels or do you think there's more risk/lack of upside coming up? A. I've done my physical gold buying at these levels in months past and am not in any rush to add to my gold anytime soon. Gold and silver might be dead money and/or stuck in a down trend while this dollar rallies, as it has been and as it looks like it might for the foreseeable future.

#dewplayer {display:none;} It might be hot in the UK right now but this cool little harmonic drum and bass mix might just chill you out between the thunder storms. Please make sure you listen on appropriate equipment otherwise you miss out on much of the best bits. There is a curated selection from the present world of drum of bass in this mix. Look out for forthcoming material from fellow english Nottinghamian Joe Nebula; new releases featuring Simplification (Brazil), Command Strange (Kazakhstan) and even the return of legendary Hungarian producer, ICR. Another notable addition is a boiling hot liquid pearl from Dave Owen (UK/USA) called "Send Me Your Love" featuring a sick time-stretched vocal sample from the late Marvin Gaye (lyrics below). Finally, many thanks to all the featured artists and Dave Ashton for the inspired cover artwork. If you feel like supporting me too, one easy way is to share this with your friends. I always appreciate getting new listeners! If I could build my whole world around you, darlin' First I'd put heaven by your side. Pretty flowers would grow wherever you walked, honey And over your head would be the bluest sky. Then I'd take every drop of rain And wash all your troubles away. I'd have my whole world wrapped up in you darlin' And that would be alright. :') Artist Title Cloud NineMind Games (Joe Nebula and Peter Fine Remix) NaibuShadows of the Past Random Movement, Ben SoundscapeMany Things Command StrangeAway From The Sun Intelligent MannersThe Morning After Love DJ ClartDo Make Say Think MakotoGirl I'm Running Back 2 U feat. Christian Urich (Random Movement Remix) Joe NebulaCompulsive Disorder StereotypeBlue Velvet MSDOSBlue Sky High Simplification, Sunny Crimea, Scott AllenHeaven Sent Dave OwenSend Me Your Love Donnie DubsonSilver Plate Command StrangeAmour SebaToo Much Too Soon ICRLess Than Three DJ TraxRoute 96 LinkyWhat Do You Want From Me (Physics Remix) Makoto, DeeizmWoe feat. Deeizm (Lenzman Remix)