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Today I talk with Jennifer Longmore, Leading Authority on Soul Purpose, and Elite Business Coach to enlightened entrepreneurs, is a sought-after media personality, 3-time best selling author, is world-renowned for her laser-like clarity in seeing into the depths of your soul and bridging your connection to universal consciousness. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.   TRANSCRIPTION *Please note this is an automated transcription, please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with media personality, best selling author and elite business coach Jennifer Longmore. Key points addressed were Jennifer's books regarding her rhetoric and knowledge on identifying and realigning one's to one's purpose professionally, personally and spiritually. We also discussed some of the reflections and thoughts Jennifer's had as she has launched a massive effort to help individuals traverse the Kovik 19 pandemic and begin future visioning again. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jennifer. Long more.    [00:00:38] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen dot COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.    [00:01:38] And today I am sitting down with Jennifer Longmore. She is a media personality, best selling author and elite business coach. You can find out more about her endeavors and all of the work that she's involved in in w w w dot soul journeys dot ca.    [00:01:54] Welcome, Jennifer.    [00:01:56] Thank you. I'm excited to be here. We're going to have a great chat today. We are. I can't wait. I've really climbed through a lot of what you've done, and I'm excited to ask you so many questions regarding your work and your future endeavors.    [00:02:09] For everyone listening, I will read a quick bio on Jennifer. But before I get to that, a roadmap for today's podcast. For those of you are longtime listeners, it will follow the trajectory that we always follow for this series. Namely, we will look at Jennifer's academic background and early professional history leading to right now. Then we'll look at unpacking soul journeys. We'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, funding growth, client base. And then we're get to some of the more specifics of the ethos and the philosophy behind the work that she's doing there. And we'll also address some of the at least a few of the plethora of books that she has written over the past decade. And we'll then turn our efforts towards asking Jennifer about any goals that she may have for her businesses and her her own personage for the next one to three years. That's an area that's changing for a lot of us given the recent Cauvin 19 pandemic. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she has for those of you who are possibly looking to get involved with what she's doing. Ask her for some of her services or maybe emulate some of her success. A quick bio on Jennifer before I pepper her with questions. Jennifer Longmore and leading authority on sole purpose in elite business coach to enlighten entrepreneurs is a sought after media personality. Three time bestselling author is world renowned for her laser like clarity in seeing into the depths of your soul and bridging your connection to universal consciousness. For more than 15 years, she has served clients in permanently shifting the limiting beliefs and patterns that prevent them from being who they really are so that they can live their most abundant, aligned and accelerated soul's journey with over thirty thousand sole purpose sessions, including the Who's Who of actors, professional athletes, CEOs of leading companies and other influential influential luminaries. Jennifer continues to offer these high level sessions to souls who are really committed to shine their light. And again, her website is w w w dot. Soul Journeys Dossier.    [00:04:11] Now, Jennifer, it's this three time bestselling author. But I think I saw five somewhere on another one of your bios lost your beloved author.    [00:04:21] And I love that because I think it somehow it becomes it's more than just a body of work and something that you've you've clearly honed the skill of. But it also becomes very relatable to the way you communicate your information. It's not just this business coach, one on one person to person verbal. It becomes written. And it's a different form of, you know, a pedagogical lens of an instructional lens, which I, I adore. And I kind of get into the minutia of a little bit too much. But before we get to all of that, I was hoping that you could dress like a narrative of your academic background and early professional life prior to starting the soul journeys.    [00:04:59] Yeah, I'd love to. I love that you point that out about the books, because when I did my master's thesis, I just dillydally on that thing like my my professor contacted me and she said, you realize that you've got about six months to write this and hand it in before you have to redo your entire masters. Like, I really it's OK if you don't want to do your thesis, but you're going to have to pick a lane now. Right. Because it just felt so daunting to me having so much material. And it's so funny to me that I've published 10 books. Now, like, that's just because I really thought I was done with writing. After I finished my thesis, I was like, I am never writing another book again. That was, you know, like total birthing process. Here I am.    [00:05:41] So when I was younger, my parents decided that my mom would stay home with me because they would actually was more financially advantageous for them, for her to stay home than go to work and pay a babysitter. So she stayed at home with me and my mom, I think secretly always wanted to be a teacher. So she taught me and I was reading and writing and, you know, basically at a grade five level, by the time I got to kindergarten and I was asked to constantly sit in front of a class and read to the class, which as a shy kid was actually really painful, to sit on a chair above my other peers and read a story to them, like a teacher would read and people would come in and gawk at me and they would bring in people from the school board. And let's look at this. This girl, they wanted to skip me ahead to grade for my mom was like, no, that's not going to happen because she's going to miss all of those social things that she needs. So I was in gifted classes for a long time and I didn't view myself that way. In fact, it was really embarrassing and it made me other. And I really because I was already very spiritual and wew and very intuitive, I already felt like an outsider and I was doing my best to fit in. So every time I got taken out of a class to go to a special class, it just was it was super uncomfortable for me. So I feel like I spent a great chunk of my time in school trying to figure out who people needed me to be so I could fit in because I felt like a really old school. I got along way better with adults and I felt like kids. My own age groups were kind of annoying. It was refreshing to me when I would finally find a kid that could have deep conversations with me. So I ended up in grade 11 having a call up and I went into a class for developmental services and all of these parents asked me to be their private worker for their kids. So these kids had Down's syndrome or autism or, you know, various things. And so I, I got hired by all these parents and I ended up working like forty hours a week doing these one to one contracts after school. And then I got approached by other agencies who want me to come and work in group homes and stuff.    [00:07:50] So then they all wanted me to go and get a developmental service worker diploma at college and my parents had a meltdown there, like, you know, you're going to university.    [00:08:01] You're the first kid in our family that's gonna go to university. That's how it's going to be. But up until then, I always thought I'd be a teacher. And then I ended up going through social work and I specialized in forensic social work and went into forensics for many years investigating crimes against children, which I know you've you've read about my history. Yeah. And so that was an intense job. And fast forward to what's going on in the world right now. I was a crisis worker. I just responded to crises all the time. I got promoted into management positions, director positions, and and then I knew how to lead other leaders through crises. And I never thought I'd repeat that. Right. It's just funny how life has these ideas of throwing things at us. And in hindsight, how our skills for Paris for this. So. So I worked in that for many years. And then I just couldn't my adrenals just couldn't handle that anymore. So I went to work in corporate for two years and did sexual harassment investigations and I ran. Or maybe not. Ironically, that's probably not the right word. But to my surprise, I was shocked that textbook sexual harassment cases were still happening at that time. It was really shocking to me. Yeah. And I know they still happened to this day, but comparatively, the stress that I had in forensics was far different. You know, I maybe got one case every six months of sexual harassment, which was too many, of course. Right. But like from a scale perspective, I was used to investigating hundreds of cases a week of child abuse, too. You know, once every six months. Sexual harassment. That gave me the gift of working a true nine to five. So every night I can or not every night, but most nights I can go to business networking events because I kept feeling that I needed to start my own business. But I thought that everyone was speaking alien. I really didn't understand this language of entrepreneurs. It freaked me out. I. I didn't even know it was a possibility for me. But I knew I needed to get into more of the woo side of things, which is what I do now. And. And so sure enough, I would go at night and I realized, oh, I do have I do have what it takes. And that was a great gift for me to still be getting a paycheck while determining whether I really could do this thing. And so after about two years of working in corporate, I left that. I took the leap and trusted that that would catch me. And it did. And I was busy pretty much right away and became I was referral based and I had a waiting list because all of the same things people were dealing with when I worked in forensics, I was now dealing with them as adults, all of the long term effects of sexual abuse and and gaslighting and, you know, cycles of violence and being parenticide and all the things that were happening that I was seeing. So actually is I'm way more prepared than I realize. And but then I thought, well, I'm gonna go get my masters and I'm going to be able to claim my services under extended health benefits. OK. So I only wanted my masters because I wanted to appease the insurance companies. I was interested. Don't get me wrong, I, I liked academics to a certain degree. But like anything, you know, there's kind of pros and cons, in my opinion and always at academics and. So I went off and did my master's in education because I just needed something, I was already registered with my body, like my associations. So I just needed to have a masters really in anything. But by the time I got my masters, I realized I didn't actually like to work with clients that only wanted to come and do the work when their insurance would cover it. And when their insurance would run out. And sometimes it would be nine months they would instead of just, you know, continually investing in themselves, they only wanted to come if someone else was paying for it. And it's not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that for me, I like to work with people that are constantly moving forward and not finding obstacles to do that. So anyway, so I did my Masters and realized that I didn't need it after all. But still great. Oh, that I did it. And now, 16 years later, here I got that book.    [00:12:10] That was your Everest. Yeah.    [00:12:16] I'm curious, do you believe that the.    [00:12:18] I'm wondering if you, in hindsight, do attribute your immediate success and waiting list and things like that from your you kind of quickly dropped that you had done this business networking and, you know, in nights and weekends when you went corporate. Do you attribute some of the success to that or have you passed any of those pieces out as to why it's so very fluidly took up for you?    [00:12:42] That's a great question.    [00:12:44] I think that job, probably an aspect of that, eliminated some of my learning curve because when we first start a business, there's such a steep learning curve and people will always say, well, I don't know what I'm doing. And I say, well, that's amazing. None of us know what we're doing, which is part of the exciting journey that we get to split test and we get to throw spaghetti against the wall. I'm not saying that that's a long term strategy, but if we go into the energy of on wonder in our first year of business and say, OK, well, I wonder what's going to happen if I join that networking group for a year. And I wonder what's going to happen if I knock on these doors that I don't think we're going to open for me. And I wonder what's going to happen if I take a leap in this way. I kind of call it business yoga. Right. We're really stretching ourselves and kind of developing these muscles and getting more comfortable. But I think that because I really could empathize with people and have a understanding of the psychology of abuse and why they'd be experiencing what they did and people feeling safe enough to come to me and now that I could hold space for them and I wasn't going to make it about me and my discomfort in hearing their story, that I had the actual capacity to hold space for them and let them talk about anything without being judged or without making them feel like they needed to tend to my emotions from like Chris trauma or any of those things that might have happened. They were able to talk about anything. And believe me, I I heard a lot of stuff. I had seen a lot of things. And I still see it. And of course, to this day now, I just know that nothing really surprises me.    [00:14:22] But I I think to the other thing that happened then, which is also happening right now for me in my business in light of the pandemic, is that I didn't focus on the money at all.    [00:14:32] I just focused on. On serving people. And I was so grateful that I got to make my own living.    [00:14:39] I didn't know what I was doing, but I was so grateful that I got to create life on my terms and just help people. And that's all I focused on, was getting myself out there and helping people. And that's what I've been focusing on the last several weeks. And I didn't do it for this reason. But I I've generated a lot of income, unexpectedly, generated a lot of income over these last few months, because my focus really has been on all. My goodness. I've got to get into crisis mode again. I'm going to help people not freeze. And the trauma helped them work through the trauma that was already there before this and then all the trauma buttons that are being pressed through this. And let's get you to the other side. We don't know what the other side's going to look like, but let's find a way to have you feel a semblance of being able to be in the moment or the moment being. So panic and anxiety. Rhythm.    [00:15:29] Yeah. At which it can ebb and flow. I don't think it was just in the beginning. There's a lot of different societal trends with that. And I've been to that end. I want to kind of start unpacking for people.    [00:15:39] And I'm not certain about this current work that you've done because I haven't been able to research any of that. But I do want to start our audience off with them once you approach your Web site. One of the first taglines that I was struck with as a researcher was it's the number one training school for Akashic Records. And I don't know if I'm saying that word right, but I defined I looked up that word in the dictionary and a very general and accepted definition for that is a supposed universal spiric field in which a record of past events is imprinted.    [00:16:13] And that's Akasha.    [00:16:15] So and you and you have this tagline of the number one training school for Akashic Records. So my assumption in looking into it and then going forward with your books is that you're you're kind of engaging this philosophy and this this paradigm in order to help your clients heal on different levels. And indeed, your books envelop everything from spiritual, emotional, financial, you know, in this very they're all interconnected moment. But you kind of pass out each of these things and speak to those through the feminine, you know, energies and things to all the way up to the financial discord and how we have financial DNA and things of that nature within us. And I'm hoping you can break some of it down. I may have just murky at all of it. And I do apologize, but that was kind of my my bird's eye view with all of it. And I wanted to bring that particular term forward because you put it right out there for your audience to hit right when you get to your landing page on your Web site. So I'm hoping you can break some of that down. Pass it out, make it bite sized for people listening and then talk about how you're implementing it.    [00:17:22] Yeah, I love that. And I forgot that was on my Web site because, you know, Web sites change every few years.    [00:17:30] So I sometime I should, you know, go back in and see what's on there because. Yeah, we change all the time and I change my business. I don't just kind of stay in one niche or like have one central offer that I have consistently through the years, although Akashic Records are one of them. I actually follow the pulse of my clients and then say, OK, well, do I feel qualified to offer this? I just have a firm belief that I don't want to offer anything that I don't have a semblance of mastery over. I'm not talking about being a master of or being perfect at.    [00:18:04] But I do feel that my knowledge of certain areas needs to be beyond satisfactory for me to feel good and feel and integrity about, you know, giving people information or holding space for people in a certain way. So, for example, I didn't talk about money until I felt that I'd done enough internal work and done enough outer staff with money to feel like I can guide people. Of course, I'm not a billionaire and I don't pretend to be a billionaire. And a billionaire is probably not going to hire me to help them with their money story. But I can help people that, you know, are still navigating that. And the reason I focused on money was because in doing all the sole purpose work, which is ultimately what I'm doing right, it's all about consciousness, the consciousness of our soul, the consciousness of money, the consciousness of our business. All of these things have an energy or an intelligence to them. And I'm helping people tap into these different areas to live their life with. So many people were saying to me time and time again, I don't know what my purpose is like after eight sessions with me when we keep talking or your purpose. I know there's a question behind the question, which is why are you living your purpose? You know what your purpose is? And people were throwing money, money under the bus all the time. And I say that obviously you don't play by play, but people with money becomes an easy thing to hold us back. And there's a lot of things we don't do in the future because we decide we're already not going to have the money. Well, what I've learned is money is just a neutral energy and it becomes whatever we project onto it based on what we've been taught about money, based on what society tells us, vote money, based on what happens when we have money and how other people respond to us when we don't have money or how they respond to us when we don't have money. There's so much that influences that. And if we can untangle ourselves from all the projections and just see money as a clean source, as a tool that helps fuel our dreams, then we actually have more freedom. Doesn't matter how much money we have, as long as we have peace of mind and freedom around money, that actually is true financial freedom.    [00:20:01] Yeah, and that's interesting. So one of my questions was going to be your diagnostic tool set.    [00:20:07] And I don't know if it's a questionnaire or when you have a new client intake. Let's say one on one, because I know you offer a few different services on your Web site. And I always wonder when someone like you with this this vast array of education and this growing tool kit, if you will, knowledge base, how you correctly ascertain which prognosis and implementation or activities or techniques is appropriate per each client. Do you have a set kind of rule list or intake thing that you do with every client or does it sounds like it varies. You said you follow the pulse of your clients. And so what does that mean in reality, like realistic, tangible terms?    [00:20:55] Well, I'm glad you asked that because I think it is important understand our process. I am very intuitive so I can always tell whether someone is asking me the things that they really want to know. And it's not because they're trying to mislead me. It's just because we have so much wrapped end around even asking. Right. You've been told to be seen and not heard or we get in trouble when we ask questions or we're afraid of looking stupid. There's all kinds of reasons why we don't just directly ask for support or directly ask questions. So I can tell whether someone's question is really in service to them or whether there's something underneath that. And I'll always reflect it back. I'm not going to decide for them. You know, here's here's the truth and you're going to receive it. But we have a conversation. And what I'm looking for is synergy and I'm looking for a dissonance. So when someone tells me that they want to create certain things, I'm I'm checking into the pulse of that to see if that's actually in alignment with what they truly want with their soul truly wants. And I'm also looking for a dissonance that they may or may not be telling me meaning, whereas their incongruence between what they say they want or what they're telling me they want versus what they're actually doing in their life. And then I kind of work probably counterintuitively to what maybe people would think I should do. But I want to know what what's the worst case scenario? You want to have a seven figure business or you want to, you know, find a soul mate or you want to do whatever it is people are telling me they want. Tell me what the worst case scenario is of you having that and it stops people and it snaps them out of whatever neural pathways they're into, open them up to what the actual fear is. Because the reason why we don't do things in life is because we have fears. Usually they're unconscious. So once we eliminate what that actually with that fear actually is, then we can heal and reframe and create perspective and also receive perhaps intuitive guidance around.    [00:22:49] OK, well, how do we help you create that? So that fear is no longer an obstacle, though?    [00:22:55] A common fear would be, you know, fear of being attacked. Right. If I have it all, then I'm hot.    [00:23:03] PICKENS Basically for other people to criticize me and take me down. So people are already expecting to be taken down. When they succeed, they're going to respond as though they're already being taken down. They're going to dramatically slow down their progress with their goals because they're just trying to keep themselves safe. So we find a way to help people see that they're safe in being successful, for example, then they can take that path more easily. Because what happens is when people don't know why they're responding in fear, they then beat themselves up. Oh, I'm stupid. I'm not capable. I'm not enough of X or I'm too much of Y. And they instantly make themselves wrong because we learn that at a very young age that when in doubt it must be my fault. So if we're not moving forward in whatever goal we have, we instantly start beating ourselves up. And then that's a that's a vicious cycle. We just are on a hamster on a wheel. Then we just have our time moving forward because it's really hard to get motivated when we're also telling ourselves that we're stupid or incapable or unqualified or whatever, you know, things we're telling ourselves.    [00:24:07] Yeah. And you talk a lot. Not a lot in the book that I did read.    [00:24:12] And I should clarify for everyone listening, I read Quantum Leap for the Soul Manifesting Miracles Through the Power of Concretion, which was written a number of years ago, I believe, two thousand fourteen thousand fifteen, maybe earlier, I can't remember. And then I also had to look at Helier money story, but not incompletion. And so I'm speaking, namely about quantum leap for the soul. You start off in this introduction of the feminine divine, you know, and this this feminine power. And I'm kind of defining it. And even for myself, who had heard the term and indeed done some studying around it, it clarified and demystified some attributes that I had wrongly associated with it. And. And then you talk it, you pass it out through all of the different metrics that it's represented in our life and different areas. You give examples of things like that, and it's in order to apply it to this. This manifestation process, you know, of of miracles in this creation of one's own path and destiny. And I'm wondering how much of that looking at your library of books that you've produced that I haven't had the privilege yet of reading. How much of those kinds of principles are applied and intertwined with one another as someone who's coming into your work and really trying to apply some of your core tenants? Is there a similarity or do you feel like everything is kind of a separate journey, a stepping stone, if you will, into the path?    [00:25:38] That's a great question.    [00:25:40] I think it's important to look at feminine energy. But I would say that overall my general philosophy is around oneness. And I recognize that as humans, we have this innate need to get it. Get out our label maker, 3000 thousand. And I know you'll appreciate this because we both grew up in the same time frame.    [00:25:59] Right. We just are so attached to putting labels on everything.    [00:26:04] And I remember being young and. Really just thinking, why can't we all just be one? Not that we have to be the same. But why do we have to use. He, she, B, B and all kinds of things like why do we have to identify? There's nothing wrong with identifying that. But every time we create separation by way of labels, we.    [00:26:28] We know how we do one thing is how we do others, and so we start to see separate. I mean, we're seeing it right now in the pandemic. Holy cow. Week by week, it changes that. There's a lot of polarity and there's a benefit to polarity for sure. But I think that the ultimate goal is to have unity conscious as where we're really just all operating from our heart center and our hearts are what speaks truth as opposed to all of the other things. And of course, intellect is important and our physicality is important and so on. It shapes who we are. But I want to help people understand how. How does all this stuff shape who you are? And then who are you beyond that? At the core of who you really are? Yes, of course. You know, I am white. I was born in North America. I had working middle class parents. Of course, my my viewpoint of the world and my experience in the world and how other people treat me is predicated on all of that stuff that shaped who I am as I'm not rejecting it. But I also want to move beyond that at some point. And so that is part of, I think, the work that I do. And the soul's journey with folks is is allowing ourselves to constantly evolve and releasing attachment to who we were or who we thought we were. And being in the moment of who we are now and that I would say to with what's going on the world is it is a gift. I know that the way it's being delivered, it doesn't feel like a gift. But if we're going to look at silver linings in this, it's that we have an awareness and we're coming to various degrees of this awareness that who we were before just isn't coming back. And there's a level of almost ceremony that we need to have around saying goodbye to the aspects of us that were just we can grace and bless them. Thank you for bringing me to this point in my life. But what matters now in a lot of ways is so different than what was mattering twelve weeks ago, for example. And and so how do we live beyond labels and and connect to the truth of our identity on a soul level, which is that we're infinite and expansive and creative beings that are here to string together a bunch of moments and make every moment count?    [00:28:47] Yeah, absolutely.    [00:28:48] And I think that the reminder of our return to humanity. I have a personal belief that we are all born with an infinite capacity to love. And these types of situations bring about a lot of fear that can manifest in both negative and positive ways, depending on the person who is experiencing it. But I do believe that a reminder of our camaraderie as a civilization, you know, is at the epicenter of every good thing that ever happened. And so I think there's a key moment to be done with that. I'm wondering, given the Cauvin 19 and you talked about briefly earlier on, you mentioned working with people and things of that nature. Can you kind of speak to some of your observations when you've I don't know what work you've endeavored in recently, but since the pandemic hit? Can you kind of speak to some of your observations in what's happening or what's potentially possible to happen that could be of benefit or the ways that you're helping people during this particular crisis?    [00:29:55] Yeah, I've noticed that people overall are having an existential crisis. So people like me are busier right now because people want to know what's the meaning of life. Did my sense of the meaning of life actually match up with what the meaning of life is? What is my purpose? Now how can I express my purpose more? Part of the reason why I got into business coaching years ago was not because I want to be a business coach. I never envisioned that. It still kind of shocking to me today. But it's a way of me helping people get out of their own way and spread more light and help more people. So I had a massive deepening of conviction of purpose when this all went down. When I really when we had that moment, because I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world. But here in Canada, it was kind of this thing that was happening somewhere else. It was really, really downplayed it. And we went from literally one day it was being downplayed to the next day. You're all in lockdown and we're like, what's happening? Right. And it was in that moment that I had a lot of the things happen. One of them was what's called almost like a solar feminin rising where we just get this like fire in us. Right. And I thought, oh, I instantly thought, you know, I could see it all playing out almost in like a 30 second movie of the decimation of small and medium sized businesses. What it was the amount of people that were going to be without jobs, the massive financial hit. We had no we still had no idea that time with the virus was going to be or not be. But just the follow it. I could see it. And I had this feeling of I need to help humanity this deep, like primal mother energy almost come over me. And I've talked to a lot of women who had a similar feeling. So I've been busier than ever because everyone is initially it was presented as, hey, everyone now at your home for two weeks, why don't you learn some things? But that was never the angle I took, because I can see that the long term cause and effect was already bigger than what we were being told.    [00:31:59] And and so I really started promoting much more of the spiritual trainings that I had creating spiritual community, finding affordable ways for people to have access to me so that they could take the edge off and have some clarity, because I'm well known for speaking truth. And a lot of people came back from years ago saying I needed the truth and I knew I knew exactly who I needed to come to. So I always tried to deliver it with love, of course. But the truth, there's nothing really convenient about the truth, you know, uncomfortable.    [00:32:31] But a lot of times we're not ready to hear it.    [00:32:33] So people still know they needed it. So I've been spending a lot of time guiding people. Towards what their purpose is and what their purpose is now, and like I said, having almost like a ceremony of greeting the aspects of our lives and the aspects of ourselves that are not they're just not going to be able to come with us. But also really celebrating and honoring and honing the aspects of ourselves and our skills that are needed more now than ever. I think one of the things people are noticing, especially in my community, is that they were made for this time. They really have gone to see with 20/20 vision that, oh, my goodness, my whole life has prepared me for this moment. And that's certainly how I felt when you know what I shared with you about all the crisis work that I used to do. So that's a piece of it, the existential piece. And then the other piece is really keep, you know, people live from trauma anyways. They don't know they are.    [00:33:30] But something like this that really pokes a lot of trauma buttons and there's so many layers of trauma. If we don't deal with that, we just freeze. And there's a lot of people that are frozen and then they're making themselves wrong because they're frozen and they know they need to move, but they just can't move. I think we've all had that experience when we wake up in bed and we're just lying there and we like we're sinking deeper and deeper into the bed. A lot of people are feeling that they're living life that way right now. And so they feel guilty that they're not out there helping, but they can't bring themselves to. Everything feels like an effort because they got adrenal fatigue, brushing their teeth feels like an effort. Getting groceries feels like an effort, right? That's all. Those are all signs of adrenal fatigue. And so how do we keep folks out of their own way so that they can get to do the things that they know they're feeling called to do? So there is no playbook for this. It's it's complex and flavored. It's it's profound. And there's a lot of GIFs on this and there's a lot of suffering and tragedy in this, too. And. It's and then you put social media on top about. Yeah, and the fact that Freddie Prekop, that we had fake accounts and A.I. that were purposely yeary information to us, people that run Vickki accounts to try and guide the narrative and get us for leadings things. And so we're seeing that now with just the ways that. And then you've got people that are scrolling or hypnotized and they're scrolling. They're highly susceptible because they're in a more have not state. And they're reading headlines on one camera. The other does even matter. And they're taking it as truth because they're not at that level of a sermon because they're in their theater brainwaves. Right. Essentially being hypnotized by the alone. So they're taking and things to be true. That may not be true. I'm not saying they're not true. And then if they're getting news from there scrolling that would suggest that they should be more afraid, then the fear is giving more and more magnified. Which means the adrenals are getting more and more burnt out, which means that they're more and more frozen and then making themselves more and more wrong for not getting out and doing the work. So it's there's a lot of getting off. Like I said, that there's there's a lot of fallout. And I decided last week. When talking with my guides that this conversation isn't coming to an end. You know, we we know that although we'll go through stages of this beyond the virus, even when the virus finally runs its course. All of the aftermath, we'll be we'll be going through stages with that, just like organizational change. Right. Having worked in corporations, I know that changes really slow. And there's many layers of it or phases of it. And so we can probably expect to be dealing with the fallout of this for at least two years. Like the immediate fallout. Right. And trying to recalibrate to some semblance of life as we knew it, although most people are saying we won't ever see that changing economies, that actual currency is going to change. There's a ton of people that are gonna be jobless. And then they have to decide what they're going to do or are they gonna start a business or are they going to farm what you know, what are they going to do with their lives and knowing that this conversation isn't going away. But we don't want to be living and immersed in this conversation. What do we do? So I decided last week this will be the week and I need the announcement to my community that we're going to start future visioning again. Well, you know, gas is going to look different. Yes, our marketing message needs to look different. Yes. The way we serve people and how we present our services to people needs to be different. And we can't be tone deaf. But we do have to get back into visioning the future instead of literally being in a holding pattern waiting for more news. I remember in 9/11. Being so addicted to the news for weeks because we kept waiting for when's the next attack and when is anthrax going to be on my doorstep, and it just became very consuming for a long period of time. And then I eventually had to pull myself out about and I know many other people did, because otherwise you just kind of drive yourself crazy, right?    [00:37:46] I just. Of what's going on. Yeah. And it's a state of suspended animation.    [00:37:51] You know, there's a moment to car calmly sit, reflect, marinate in the potential outcomes, you know, as as every good, you know, wonderfully logic or imaginative mind should and ought to. But after that, you need to maintain that sense of suspended, you know, outcome is it's treacherous on the human mind. Right. It's it's a form of torture. It's the best way to brainwash someone to never let them know when or what something is coming. So and I agree with what you're saying. I'm really interested in talking about the future visioning again and that you're pushing people to do. But before we get to that, I was dying to know, after all of my research, I always ask myself, what is the number one thing that you yourself, Patricia, just cannot reach? Ask Jennifer.    [00:38:37] And one of them was and I had about five. I never get justice done. But now my top one was.    [00:38:44] Do you yourself have a mentor or a guide? I'm very fascinated with these prophetic symbols in people in our life, people who are coaches, guides, presidents, mothers, fathers who they look to for advice. And I'm wondering you yourself, do you have guide or mentors or teachers that you draw upon still?    [00:39:09] Absolutely, I. I never want to be in a position where I think I know it all or I've come to realize at all. And I feel that being a student and a teacher at the same time, although it may look different, is important for our growth. That's just my perspective. And so, yes, just before all of this happened, I hired one of my long term friends who's a financial adviser. He's very woo like me.    [00:39:35] And we were building the company to sell it and. And creating a plan and getting ready to buy some apartment buildings and turn them into affordable housing. And we had all these big plans. And then this hit. And I know that happened to many people, by the way, where it's almost like the universe gave us the nudge to make the move. And we thought the move was about one thing, but it was really about another thing. Yeah. And like, I was guided to sell all my rental properties. And I thought it was because I was retiring my husband. It's really because I need to get out of the rental market right now. Right. With everything that's happening and the government telling people they don't have to pay rent and that kind of stuff. Right. Like, it's it ends up being costly.    [00:40:17] But that's a story for another day.    [00:40:20] Anyways, I am I a pretty discerning now about who I let into my life, because I think that even the most clean energy and people, they still will bring their own filters to us. Right. Just as I do with my clients. I don't mean to it's just going to happen. And so I have to get really clear myself. What do I want to be creating? And then who is the best person to help me create that? Sometimes I know, sometimes I don't. But I can. I think to all the people I've listened to over the years, I'm so grateful for people like Oprah. You know, she was a huge part of my journey. I don't know what it was twenty five years ago or so when she was introducing us to all those self-help worker, her authors, I should say, and that and even just who she was and what she stood for, the energy that she held. Right. Showing us what's possible as women. And so that's just an example. There's all kinds of people I haven't personally hired that I look to. I appreciate someone like Shirley MacLaine, who took a lot of leaps of faith by talking about some pretty loose stuff in an environment and at the time in an era where was very much on the down low. And boy, Louise Hay starting her own publishing house. Think about how much energy and what a mountain she had declined to create that type of a publishing house at a time that she did. So there's a lot of people I admire. There's a lot of people I'm grateful for anything. Aside from being grateful for my parents, for Amy onto this planet, regardless of what our relationship was, I think I'm most grateful to myself, honestly. And I and I would invite people to look at that for themselves because. We've all been through some stuff, but in hindsight, you know, we got to look at it differently. But at the time we've been Coleco. Like what? You know, why am I going through this?    [00:42:17] And and so I'm grateful that I have dedicated myself to grow so that I can move more and more towards the person that I want to meet when I'm not in a body anymore. When I when I greet that version of me, when I'm out of a body, I want to look at her in the eyes and I want her to look at me in the eyes and say, Good job, champ.    [00:42:40] You did a good job. You did what you came there to do.    [00:42:42] I love that. I love that analogy. I can see it like dancing before me. You know, that that example is so epic to talk about who you want to be when you're no longer in a body anymore and run into. So normally I talk about goals that you have for your future business endeavors and things, but because you dropped a little nugget, I'd like to pick it up and ask you just a little bit with whatever little time we have left. And you said you wanted to start future visioning again. And and you wanted to start putting that out there and implementing this kind of what sounds to be action item based or at least this cohesive vision of the future. Can you explain to the audience what that means and how that that will take like implementation or even theoretical form?    [00:43:29] I'm I'm grateful that you asked that and I kind of have to hold myself accountable by saying this out loud.    [00:43:35] So it was an early you said you just decided and I was like, oh, hot off the press.    [00:43:42] Yeah. You know, I am I've moved towards having my own TV show for a while and things happen and it interrupts it. And I was I was on course to do that this year. And again, Koban hit. So I know I'm meant to be visible in the hilarity of that is I'm actually a very quiet kind of private person. I was very shy as a kid. If you told me that, I'd be on stage speaking to people or beyond podcasts or anything like that, I would have probably cried myself to sleep like the thought of that would have been so horrendous for me. And yet here I am. But I. In light of what's going on in the world and in light of how important I think it is to have. Have certain people's work showcased. I was already looking at this, but I'm going to be creating a platform for Lightworkers than censorship free platform for people to speak the truth. And that'll include more of these collaborative books. My clients will often say to me all I totally some of that. Were you having your own publishing house? I did. Well, it's kind of more than that.    [00:44:49] I want to be able to have a platform for people to have podcasts. And when we can finally get back to being in person stages for people to speak on and just find a variety of ways for people to use their voice in a way where they don't have to be censored. No, I'm not talking about inviting in rude and crude and violating the sort of things I'm talking about a platform for Lightworkers where they can speak truth and not worry about, you know, coming back to Facebook, for example, and seeing their video taken down or, you know, having to to pray to the YouTube gods and things like that. We hear about this. So don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for those platforms.    [00:45:26] But I do think where we're going in society, we need to have, you know, just safe places for people that speak their truth and help build.    [00:45:37] So I've always wanted to be a resource for people. And so I really like collaborating. I like having I'm.    [00:45:46] I have this in my Facebook group. I'll transition this onto my Web site, where I have an astrologer that provides weekly forecasts for people and a tarot card reader. And I'm numerologist and shway expert and these kind of folks just to add some light into people's life.    [00:45:59] I don't feel like I have to be the source of everyone's information. And, you know, I like introducing my community to other people. So it'll be kind of like bad not a psychic hotline by any means, but something where people can also have sessions with people that they resonate with. It makes sense, you know, for what they're wanting to create. And and then I will be buying up some companies, you know, to sort of recreate the wheel, just buying companies that can kind of come under that umbrella of overall helping people evolve their soul. And instead, again, instead of me spending a ton of time creating something that someone else Saari created for those people that are ready to step out of it, they're just not interested in having it anymore. But I can renumerated them for their sweat equity, basically. Then I'll bring those those companies into the fall this fall.    [00:46:49] And that's exciting. That's a powerful umbrella, you know, of like. It sounds like in a collaborative effort, the voices sound like they'll be fascinating. And it's a really exciting goal. And it's so it's I just got it first. I scooped and talked to him. That's exciting. I'm wondering as we wrap up today. I always ask and I've kind of changed this scenario a little bit because of the pandemic.    [00:47:17] But I'm curious if you yourself were advising yourself back after you had just left corporate and you were beginning this entire journey. Not one book was written.    [00:47:29] You were just starting everything out. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that person knowing what you know now?    [00:47:39] I love that you ask that there's very little I would change about that, but I would definitely hire a mentor. I was five years into my business before I then hired a mentor. And anyone I talked to that successful says that that's their biggest regret. There has yet to be a single person I've spoken to that didn't. Because mentors really, first of all, remind you what your goals are and hold you accountable to them. But they also they they shorten your learning curve because presumably you're hiring people that have already created what you want to create. So I. I would have done that. There was a point in the beginning where I was kind of swimming in fear and fear became like Groundhog Day. I got so bored with it that I eventually just said, okay, well, fear is boring me now. So I'm just going to put myself out there. What do I have to lose? So I guess I wouldn't say it's a regret that I. I couldn't easily. Allowed myself more speed, and I also, as I mentioned, went into a place of all I'm wondering the beginning. So instead of deciding people were going to say yes or no, I just decided I was in control of the doors. So I decided that I was in the driver's seat rather than other people were inviting me to their table. I had my table that I was going to invite people to. That makes any sense. Yeah. So I, I, I definitely knocked on doors and some doors flew open up that surprised me and other doors that I thought would open didn't open. And so I needed to learn how to be unattached to the whether the door is open or not. But I definitely could have been way more relentless about the doors that I knocked on and really just created an abundance of opportunities. And then I also would have hired someone more quickly, meaning like an assistant. I got really bottlenecked and it stagnated my growth and I just didn't know how to hire an extension of me.    [00:49:26] And then I realized I don't need an extension of me, I need to be me, and I need to hire someone that knows what to take off my plate. It wasn't my job to know what they could take off. My my it was they worked out what they could take off my plate.    [00:49:40] So my my growth definitely slowed down because like I said, I was the admin and the janitor and the bathroom cleaner and the chance of something wrong with those things.    [00:49:52] But at some point I became problematic because I was too busy, so.    [00:49:57] All right. That's it sounds.    [00:49:59] And to that last point, I find it I speak primarily for those who are familiar with my work. I speak largely with women, female identified, non binary individuals and children. So I can't speak with great authority to this end. But what I do know about women is that they are bred to do that. They are bred not to outsource. You know, you are mother, breadwinner, wife. All of us, daughter, caregiver, all of those things. And I've never spoken to a woman from any culture that I've visited and I globe trot regularly that isn't brought up with that idea and also takes great pleasure in it. It's not always this, you know, horrible cross to bear. But I will say that most female entrepreneurs and founders of the highest echelon are still saying, I really should have hired someone long before I did. And as it's a common theme. But just you realist's what I heard is hire a mentor. And number two, allow more speed. Don't let fear roadblock you let off and wonder. Open the doors, invite people to the table and hire an assistant quickly.    [00:51:08] I love those. That's like a that's an incredible outline. There's your next book.    [00:51:12] From Me to Get an Assignment.    [00:51:17] I really appreciate your time today, Jennifer. We are out of time, but I could talk forever. And I just want to say I really, really appreciate you sharing your voice and your wisdom with us.    [00:51:27] Well, thank you. It was a great honor to be here. I really appreciate you inviting me on today.    [00:51:32] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been talking with Jennifer long more. You can hear more about what she's doing and contact her on w w w dot soul journeys, dot CAA. And thank you for listening to our show today.    [00:51:47] I hope you all stay well, stay in love, stay in peace and remember to always bet on yourself. 

Getting my head down to focus on writing and plans. So the podcast is going to go back to weekly. Then I'll have more to say. Support the podcast: bit.ly/SharkeyPatreon See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Connor MACIVOR Santa Clarita home experts radio (02:30): As far as the market goes, 19 of those are currently slotted for coming onto the market here in the next 21 days. That's the maximum amount of time they have. I will tell you that this category is being used more and more. The only way you can access it currently is through having a relationship with a real estate agent and them actually sending you those coming soon listings. So with our clients, whenever they have a set, a search set with me, try that to say that three times fast, whenever they have a search set with me that I'm including those coming soon listings because those listings are important for them and could be the one. So what I'll do is once they see it and they say, Connor, I like this one. Then I'll do further recon and find out exactly when it's going to be released on the Mar released on the market.

Have you ever found yourself stuck because you think you need to learn more before you start? You're thinking - I just need to read one more blog, do one more course, listen to one more podcast episode, then I'll be ready. Then I'll know exactly what to do. If you've ever experienced this, this episode is for you. In this episode, I'll give you 3 steps to avoid being stuck in learning mode and take action to start or grow your coaching business. Go to https://www.dalebharris.com/ More Info on The Full-time Coach: The Full-time coach is run by Dale Harris, an online business coach. Dale offers a community experience for new and part-time coaches geared to helping you earn your first consistent $5K months. Follow us here: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dalebharris/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dalebharris/

Here is the thing that bugs me about marketing experts. They tell you that knowing the customers is the first and most important thing you should do. And then immediately in the next sentence, they are giving you tactics on what to do next. If knowing your customer is so critically important, then why do they jump right over that skill? In this episode, I'll lead off discussing that issue. Then I'll get into the topic that is next in the marketing expert's repertoire. That is: "marketing channels." Big companies, like Google, Facebook, Amazon, LinkIn all want you to think that you have to go through them and their channels to get to your prospects. This is "channel marketing." The thing that they don't tell you is that they will charge you a toll to use their channel. When you break out of their channel, your profits go up, because you're not paying them their toll. And another miraculous thing happens - "YOU" become a channel that other merchants would love to use to get to the same customers. When you are the "channel," they will pay you the "toll." So your profits climb even higher! How do you become a "channel" that other merchants would love to pay you for access to customers? It goes back to that first and most important aspect of the selling process: "knowing the customer." The person that has the most knowledge of the customer is the channel. That is why Google, Facebook, Amazon, and LinkIn all grew so big. They have inside knowledge of the customer. It is time that you get even deeper knowledge of the customer so you have the edge and break out of their marketing channels. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Taking it old school on the Mikey Hates Horror Podcast! Introducing, "S'Mores with a Corpse", a scary story series told around a campfire for the entire family. A mixture of both fictional and true ghost stories, "S'Mores with a Corpse" is perfect for car rides and simple scares. Episode 1 Includes: "The Club": Intruders in a funeral home come across a grotesque membership. "I Know Him": A woman in Pennsylvania sends in a true ghost story, where her young son wants to play with other children...that aren't there. "The Hand": A true paranormal account where a young boy is awoken in the middle of the night by noises from underneath his bed. Leave a review and subscribe...or else I'm going to hide under your bed and make noises. Then I'll roast marshmallows, depleting your inventory.

In this episode Lisa speaks with NZ's top Ozone Therapy Machine providers and expert on all things Ozone, Kim Saxton of Natural Ozone (www.naturalozone.co.nz)   What is Ozone Therapy? Ozone Therapy refers to a collection of procedures and protocols which have been developed by medical experts using medical ozone to treat a condition or reduce symptoms. They include: Injection - Auto hemotherapy; or direct injection into a vein or joint. Insufflation - in the ear; vaginal; rectal. Inhalation   - breathing ozonoids given off from ozonated oil. Ingestion - Ozonated water, ozonated olive oil in capsule form. Transdermal  - Cupping with a funnel. Sauna. All of the above therapies except for injection can be administered safely in the comfort of your own home using the equipment available through Natural Ozone. From improved immune system function to stimulating the uptake of life-giving oxygen, delivering anti-microbial benefits and enhancing the function of the mitochondria (our cells energy powerhouses), your decision to begin ozone therapy is a health-enhancing one! Ozone therapy refers to the process of administering ozone gas into your body to treat a disease or wound. Ozone is a colorless gas made up of three atoms of oxygen (O3). It can be used to treat medical conditions by stimulating the immune system. It can also be used to disinfect and treat disease.   How it works Ozone therapy works by disrupting unhealthy processes in the body. It can help stop the growth of bacteria that are harmful. Medical ozone has been usedTrusted Source to disinfect medical supplies and treat different conditions for more than 150 years. For example, if you have an infection in your body, ozone therapy can stop it from spreading.   Ozone therapy can be effective at treating infections caused by: bacteria viruses fungi yeast protozoa Ozone therapy also helps flush out infected cells. Once the body rids itself of these infected cells, it produces new, healthy ones.   What it helps treat Ozone therapy is used for a variety of conditions.   Breathing disorders People with any type of breathing disorder may be good candidates for ozone therapy. By providing more oxygen to your blood, ozone therapy can help reduce the stress on your lungs. Your lungs are responsible for supplying oxygen to your blood. Clinical trials for people with asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) are currently in progress.    Diabetes Ozone therapy also shows promise in reducing the risk of complications from diabetes. Complications are usually caused by oxidative stress in the body. If ozone therapy can bring new, fresh oxygen to the blood and tissues, people with diabetes could have much better outcomes. People with diabetes also experience poor wound healing. According to a 2015 study, ozone therapy could be helpful for repairing skin and tissue.   Immune disorders Ozone therapy may have benefits for people with immune disorders because it can help stimulate the immune system.   Some links of interest mentioned during the podcast:   Natural Ozone https://naturalozone.co.nz/collections/ozone-therapy-1 Natural Ozone Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NaturalOzoneNZ/ Frank Shallenberger The Ozone Miracle: http://www.theozonemiracle.com/ Library of medical studies, journal publications and references on Ozone Therapy https://www.zotero.org/groups/46074/isco3_ozone/items/JWHQISE3/library Dr Robert Rowen https://drrowendrsu.com/   Ozone therapy clinics in NZ:  Dr Wayne McCarthy https://waipunaturalhealth.co.nz/meet-the-team/dr-wayne-mccarthy-naturopathic-physician/ Michelle Roberts : https://www.michellesoxygen.co.nz/    About Kim Saxton It was back in 2007 when Kim first encountered the extraordinary power of O3 gas while working with a small local company. Her background in business development and MSc in International Management brought that enterprise onto a good business footing while she gained formidable knowledge of this fascinating branch of science. Armed with these years of research and experience, Kim independently founded Natural Ozone in 2016. Natural Ozone supplies all the products and associated equipment required to harness the full range of applications for ozone including air and water purification, room and car sanitisation, as well as health treatment. With well-established partner companies who have manufactured to their exacting standards for over a decade, Natural Ozone is uniquely placed within Australasia to supply high quality, reliable equipment.   We would like to thank our sponsors for this show: For more information on Lisa Tamati's programs, books and documentaries please visit www.lisatamati.com   For Lisa's online run training coaching go to https://www.lisatamati.com/page/runni... Join hundreds of athletes from all over the world and all levels smashing their running goals while staying healthy in mind and body.   Lisa's Epigenetics Testing Program https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epige... measurement and lifestyle stress data, that can all be captured from the comfort of your own home   For Lisa's Mental Toughness online course visit: https://www.lisatamati.com/page/minds...   Lisa's third book has just been released. It's titled "Relentless - How A Mother And Daughter Defied The Odds" Visit: https://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ for more Information   ABOUT THE BOOK: When extreme endurance athlete, Lisa Tamati, was confronted with the hardest challenge of her life, she fought with everything she had. Her beloved mother, Isobel, had suffered a huge aneurysm and stroke and was left with massive brain damage; she was like a baby in a woman's body. The prognosis was dire. There was very little hope that she would ever have any quality of life again. But Lisa is a fighter and stubborn. She absolutely refused to accept the words of the medical fraternity and instead decided that she was going to get her mother back or die trying. This book tells of the horrors, despair, hope, love, and incredible experiences and insights of that journey. It shares the difficulties of going against a medical system that has major problems and limitations. Amongst the darkest times were moments of great laughter and joy. Relentless will not only take the reader on a journey from despair to hope and joy, but it also provides information on the treatments used, expert advice and key principles to overcoming obstacles and winning in all of life's challenges. It will inspire and guide anyone who wants to achieve their goals in life, overcome massive obstacles or limiting beliefs. It's for those who are facing terrible odds, for those who can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's about courage, self-belief, and mental toughness. And it's also about vulnerability... it's real, raw, and genuine. This is not just a story about the love and dedication between a mother and a daughter. It is about beating the odds, never giving up hope, doing whatever it takes, and what it means to go 'all in'. Isobel's miraculous recovery is a true tale of what can be accomplished when love is the motivating factor and when being relentless is the only option.   Here's What NY Times Best Selling author and Nobel Prize Winner Author says of The Book: "There is nothing more powerful than overcoming physical illness when doctors don't have answers and the odds are stacked against you. This is a fiercely inspiring journey of a mother and daughter that never give up. It's a powerful example for all of us." —Dr. Bill Andrews, Nobel Prize Winner, author of Curing Aging and Telomere Lengthening. "A hero is someone that refuses to let anything stand in her way, and Lisa Tamati is such an individual. Faced with the insurmountable challenge of bringing her ailing mother back to health, Lisa harnessed a deeper strength to overcome impossible odds. Her story is gritty, genuine and raw, but ultimately uplifting and endearing. If you want to harness the power of hope and conviction to overcome the obstacles in your life, Lisa's inspiring story will show you the path." —Dean Karnazes, New York Times best selling author and Extreme Endurance Athlete.   Transcript of the Podcast: Speaker 1: (00:01) Welcome to pushing the limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by Lisatamati.com Speaker 2: (00:13) Today everybody to pushing the limits today. I have another exciting guest for you, Kim Saxton of naturalozone.co.nz, the leading ozone machine providers in New Zealand is to guest on the show today and Kim has going to be explaining what exactly ozone therapy is, how you can use it, the various ways of getting it into the body, why you should do that and all the conditions that can be helped with ozone therapy. Now this is something that's been on my radar for a while, so I was really, really excited to finally catch up with Kim and I'm going to be trialing out the ozone therapy over the coming weeks. So I will let you know how I go. And thanks very much to come for doing this interview. Before we go over to kim, just want to remind you two things. Speaker 2: (01:00) We have our next epigenetics public webinar that we're holding online via zoom on the 27th of May at 6:30 PM. If you want to find out about it, if a genetics program, which is all about personalized health and understanding your genes and how they're expressing themselves, then go over to epigenetics.lisatamati.com to register for that webinar 27th of May at 6:30 PM New Zealand time. You can come in and find out all about the epigenetics program that we offer and how it can help you. And finally, before we go into the show, just another plug for my book, relentless, which I bought out a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago now. Really, really great read in this time of Coburn and all that uncertainty and taking on big challenges cause that's what that book is all about. You can grab that on my website, lisatamati.com. It's available on all the audio books, the eBooks, the Amazon, the Kindles, the, you name it, it's available everywhere. So check that out. It's called relentless. How a mother and daughter defied the odds right now over to Kim Saxton from natural ozone. Speaker 1: (02:16) Sorry. Speaker 3: (02:16) Good. All right. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. This is Lisa Tamati at pushing the limits and I have the lovely Kim saxton with me. Kim, how you doing? Speaker 4: (02:24) Very good. Hi Lisa. Speaker 3: (02:26) It's really cool to have you there. Kevin is setting an initial 10. What was the name of the place? The villains. Speaker 4: (02:32) Cool. Cool. See at Bay actually, which is yeah, one Bay around from Luton. Speaker 3: (02:38) Yes. Actually that's been in the news lately, hasn't it? And of course, thereby Bay, I think when the cruise ship was off there was, Speaker 4: (02:45) That's right. Speaker 3: (02:47) I just remember that somewhere popped into my head. So Kim is with us today to talk ozone and ozone therapy and Kim owns a company called naturalozone.co.nz. Then I'll put them on links and things after to comes website and the products that they do and she's going to share her knowledge today. Everything around ozone. And I'm really fascinated by this and it's something that's been on my radar for the last couple of years and I just haven't got there to do it. But I'm hearing amazing things both in relation to the coronavirus you know, if we want to be current and also many, many other areas. So can, can you tell us a little bit, so you've been in the ozone world now for quite a few years. Speaker 4: (03:33) Yes. So basically about 15 years I first came into contact to ozone and, and well, the amazing things that it can do via my former partner. And he had been already had been involved with ozone therapy and ozone products for about 10 years. Before I met him. He had actually contracted hepatitis B while traveling through India and after, yes, lots and lots of conversations like you do with people. Lisa I had come across ozone therapy and actually cured himself of hepatitis B which, you know you, you say that to a GP and they'll go, yeah. But yeah, I was on therapy alone. He took himself hepatitis B and, and got into building machines. I came along and made a business around it. So Speaker 3: (04:40) So you have a background as the masters in international management, isn't it? Speaker 4: (04:45) Yes, that's right. Yeah. So I studied that in London, university of London at Southwest university, which is a school of African and Asian studies and that's a, yeah. Yeah. Basically you got a big international management college with focus on Asia. Yeah, it's run through the university of London. Speaker 3: (05:08) So you're able to use a lot of that skills to build a business around something that you knew was powerful and good, but Speaker 4: (05:15) It's coming from a family that's, yeah, pretty, pretty business oriented. So like, yeah, I was telling you earlier that you know, when my family gets together at Christmas, everybody's talking about the latest startup and latest technology and yeah, you know, we're also debating about what the government's doing and all that. You know, but everybody's like jumping right in there with their ideas and innovation and I've got three older brothers and very supportive growing up. They're, they're all awesome. And we were all good friends, so and support of each other. So yeah. And, and actually now what we're saying is a lot of international connections and things like that. And, and particularly, particularly from Asia, like I'm already quite well established in Asia Australian and New Zealand markets, but wow, they were getting from India and Singapore and, and things like this and this part of the book. Speaker 3: (06:29) So share this year, this powerful therapy with people. So, okay, let's go into ozone. People would have heard, probably let you know, I think most people's knowledges, I've heard about it. Some people have said it's great dunno where I can get it done. Really one of those, or this seems to be, and even for me, I've read a couple of books and things. I'm still a little bit confused about all of the variety. It seems like it affects everything and the different applications and the different ways you can use it. Can we just start at the beginning and say what is ozone you know, from molecule point of view and what did the ozone machines do? Speaker 4: (07:09) Sure. So ozone is a gas and it has three atoms. So oxygen has two atoms and ozone has three. So where is oxygen is stable. It wants to the two oxygen atoms. They want to stay together and main stable and bond. But ozone is relatively unstable, so it's highly active. I like to think of it as enhanced oxygen. With the oxygen atom. It's it's very powerful when you can harness it and use it which there's tons of ways that we're going to get into and I'm really excited about that. But yeah, if you can harness that power, that extra oxygen atom, then it's very powerful. So the way that ozone is created naturally in the atmosphere, so it's in the higher, I'm answering the lower atmosphere, but with your, they liked and lightning storms and any kind of energy that will come along and will spoon your oxygen atoms. And what, what then happens is a lot of other oxygen the Adam's will bond and form oxygen and that's majority of what's happening. But also what's happening is it will give off ozone. So this a strong base get off and all form with another two oxygen atoms and form for my zone. And, Speaker 3: (08:56) And we have an ozone layer, don't we? We all know that the ozone layer having holes in it. Speaker 4: (09:00) Yeah, yeah. And, and you can, you can actually smell ozone. So after, after the lightning storm, when it's at really fresh smell, after we've had this big storm at night and you wake up in the morning and there's sun shining and you can really S it smells so good, smells really, really fresh. And that's, that's ozone. And also a few go and stand under a waterfall or go to the beach and there's big crashing surf. That's all giving off ozone. Wow. Basically breaking up those oxygen atoms and it's all given off ozone. So and, and in low levels it's it's very good and very healthy for us, but in high concentrations which he can produce conditionally to ozone generators then it is an irritant to the lungs. So and that's very non, so about the, when we get into ozone therapy about the only thing you can't do with those own therapy is breathe directly the ozone guests in high concentrations and low concentrations. It's absolutely fine. Yep. Speaker 3: (10:10) Cause it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't pick the lungs in the negative way and can actually lead to death if you have a really, really high dose of advisers. Is that right? Speaker 4: (10:20) Or just damages just really damages the lungs in particular people with asthma. Yeah, for a strong irritant to actually know you've, you've done too much ozone cause you'll, you'll have a horrible coughing attack which can, which can go on and be you know you know, quite severe. But actually if you, if you stop puffing I'm, I'm Mike, you know, like you were saying before that you want to have a laboratory and doing all sorts of experiments and things like that. So one of the things I do is make ozonated oil, which can take about a month. And sometimes when it's kind of on its last legs, then the ozone, after it's fully infused into the oil, we'll start off guessing and I've walked into the room and there's too much ozone in there and I'll breathe too much and my stop coughing. But if I reached for the vitamin C and take the vitamin C straight away, then immediately you're, you're fine. It's also not the end of the world. Speaker 3: (11:26) Yeah. Yeah. And it would have to be pretty, pretty hard to assess, to do some serious damage, but you don't sit at the end of a ozone generator. And sucker. Okay. So what are some of the ways we can harness, before we get into what it helps, what are some of the methodologies or the delivery mechanisms that we can get that the ozone to the right part of the body and get it inside? Speaker 4: (11:52) Yeah, so that's a great question. And, and often the first one that people, people ask me then I'd say, Oh dude, do you breathe it? And I'm like, well, no, it was never said, we can't, we can't do that. But yeah, basically there is, yeah. Every, every other common way that you can, you, you can get into the body. So I was just mentioned the ozonated oil, what you can do is breathe the ozonated oil. So when I was zone is infused into olive oil, which is a traditional medium that's usually used and it's actually changing its state very, very quickly because, yeah, this ozone is, is reactive, it's unstable, and the olive oil will actually hold, hold the ozone. But it, it changes it Satan to something called Oh, it's annoyed. And when you breathe that that I was annoyed from the olive oil as it's been infused, then that's really good for lung conditions. Speaker 4: (13:01) So that's how you can help breathing conditions and the lungs, which is very relevant at the moment. So that would be like in a sort of essential oil diffuser type situation. It's, yeah, it's, it's not, it's not really in the realm of essential oil. Ozone does have a very restaurant smell. And a lot of people will be put off actually by this strong smell. But it's, it's actually, you know, and fish tanks, you diffuse the stones to just bubble oxygen and to the water clear and plain in the fish tanks. So these diffusers stones, what were you as as it was on, it's very corrosive. So we always use ozone resistant materials. So I have, I import diffuse the stones from America, we can't make it here. And my dad of ceramic and stone. And you basically diffused that the pure form of the guests into a, the olive oil and that will form owes in words and you complete that. Speaker 4: (14:14) And so that's, so that's one of the modems and then everything under the sun. So the most powerful way to get ozone into the body is actually to go to a clinic and do what's called also hammy off the or I the ozone. And this is systematic. So it's, it's working on the, on the, on the total body because basically the medical grade ozone is getting into the body and getting into your blood system and then your blood declining. It's really doing a lot of amazing, amazing, powerful things that we can get into also. But w we all say medical grade ozone, that's, this is a really important point because of, we've talked about how unstable the ozone is and basically reacts with whatever is around it. So if we just have like a normal ozone generator then that bull jaw and ear, and we know that the air in which we brave is only about 21% oxygen and year and the rest of the ear is whole lot of other guesses. Speaker 4: (15:29) Yeah. So if you, if you bring that normal ear into the ozone generator, then what? Then the guys are more react to that normal air and produce a whole load of yeah. Different, different kinds of guesses. And some of these will be nitrate kind of guessing. And that we definitely do not want to get into the body. So what we want to do for medical grade ozone therapy is to get harness at ozone and it's very pure form. And we do that by inputting a very pure form of Austin's, which you can get from an oxygen tank, which is, yeah. Not over 98% purity. It was a medical grade oxygen, Speaker 3: (16:14) Which has its own regulations and problems having it on oxygen clarity clinic. We have, we have ways around that. I a woman here mafia, the boom and oxygen situation. Speaker 4: (16:31) Yeah. So that so when you get up Purifill mobile oxygen and and that's drawn into the ozone then with a very specifically built or its own generator, and we call it a medical grade ozone generator because all of the parts within the ozone generator are all the parts and because, yeah, yeah. Offsides everything. So things like glass, titanium, Silicon, stainless steel yeah, ceramic these things are, have got really good zoned resistancy and, and so these are the kind of materials that you are looking for when you're, when you're going out to buy a medical ozone generator. And that's really important question to ask whoever's in back. And so it's and it also has a built in a specific way that it has a session amount of output. So with ozone therapy, basically the measurement that we use is mg per milliliter or America. Speaker 4: (17:46) They, they use gamma. And anything on the 20 mg per ML is not going to do anything. And anything over 95 is shown to be detrimental to the, to your body cells. So you don't want to go above that. So it's a very non and very specific window of effectiveness when you're using ozone therapy and and ozone therapy units are, are built that way. And because I built that way, then it's knowing that if you follow the protocols, it is known to be the most safest therapy. There are no side effects. There's only the only thing that can happen is a little bit of detox. Fine. Yep. And they also prevented Speaker 3: (18:39) Yeah. When you guys finally, okay, so, so just going back to the Ivy so you go, you have to go to an ozone clinic. Is it doctor only situation, you know, you have to be a medical doctor to do ozone therapy or how is it regulated? Speaker 4: (18:56) So yeah, different, different countries have different regulations. We're so pretty fortunate to New Zealand with, with our regulations. Yeah, as long as we're transparent and, and we're backing everything up with good science then, then we're good. And in America as ozone therapy is got, comes with messages of things surrounding the FDA. And Australia and Australia also, it's a stricter legislation, but they're academics and they're nice and bright people to refer to. And but actually in New Zealand, nobody is offering the IV ozone. So nobody. Wow. Yeah. And now the, and the reason being is the space where I was on therapy has had a bad reputation and the past is because of the IV ozone and somebody that doesn't know anything about how, you know, hasn't been trained, how to handle needles and things like that, then I mean, of course a blood ambulance is a real danger. And so if you don't know what you're doing then, then that, that's absolutely shocking. We shouldn't even go there. So it needs to be a case to me. It takes me to try and post them ministering it. So there has been a couple cases of ambulances in the past and that send your sin and not good, but it's got nothing to it. Speaker 3: (20:50) Putting needles in your body in the wrong way. Speaker 4: (20:53) So Speaker 3: (20:55) Okay, so, so Ivy's off the, off the menu and New Zealand at the moment in team past ozone, which I've read about don't do it when you're really powerful and really unfortunate if we don't do that. So what types of therapies are offered in New Zealand, for example? That, you know, like rectal some inflation. Yes. Vaginal supplication. What other ways can you get it into your body? Speaker 4: (21:25) Yeah, so so what, what we do at natural ozone is set people up for home ozone therapy and there's a few other clinics that also offer these kinds of treatments within New Zealand and the clinic environment because it's, yeah, a homos went to therapy is it's very well known to be extremely safe. I can yeah, feel very assured to offer equipment and help people set it up in their own home and, and, and getting started with it. So the best thing that you can do outside of clinic is to do the rectal insufflation. And that's because it's systematic. It's getting into your yeah, it's true. You call on and into your blood system. And that's this way for this total body exposure to the beneficial effects of ozone therapy. Speaker 3: (22:23) Sounds glamorous. Yeah. Speaker 4: (22:28) Considerably less expensive than going to a clinic. And you've basically got this equipment for life and don't even need to get colds and flus anymore, let alone chronic disease, biohacking, all of it. Yeah. Speaker 3: (22:46) rectal insufflation Is probably the most powerful that we can do in the, in home setting. So, sorry, carry on. Speaker 4: (22:54) Yeah, so it's quite straightforward. You just have a bag and, and a catheter and you'll fill the bag with with certain concentration and start off with small amount and and that connects to a a very thin and long catheter. And you can insert that on you takes about a minute. And, and that's the best to do after an enema or at the very least bowel moves Speaker 3: (23:21) After a movement. Yeah. So do, so it only takes one minute. So you don't have to lie there for an hour with this thing attached to you. Speaker 4: (23:29) No, no. It's quite comfortable. You do try to hold it, hold it. And and, and there's there, there has been otherwise of, of doing that in the past. But this is become the kind of gold of, of the men's name, Richmond's flashing. Speaker 3: (23:48) And this is the liver isn't it? Cause it goes directly to the liver when it's erectile. Speaker 4: (23:53) Yup. Yeah, yup. Yeah. Directly, directly tied in liver and helps everything flush out that way. So then there's other yeah, ways that you can administer ozone therapy. So there's the vaginal that you mentioned and you got 10 minutes and you can build up to about half, half an hour. And yeah, and, and you can minister that directly from those on generator and, and the, and that's really good cause it's actually primarily targeting the immune system and giving that a good boost. And, and any, yeah, so the, the ozone is working both systematically and locally. So basically wherever you can get it in that you, you go for the, the protocols depending on, on what issues you're trying to do. A few but just generally everybody can prevent disease by doing direct ones, deflation, system wide. Also doing saunas are excellent because we know that our skin is a biggest poorest mess it up body. So a lot through our skin and, but we also know that we can't breathe those zones. Speaker 3: (25:17) Yes. I had an idea hit out, so I wonder what is box? Speaker 4: (25:24) I get a sauna with your end. You just have you hit up, tie a towel around it. So none of the ozone is getting braids and and you can get stained soreness, tents and just sit in one of one of those in your bathroom, sit up in your bathroom and portable and yeah. And then you put the certain concentration of oxygen, pure oxygen ozone mix into the sauna, steam stoner and, and sit there. Speaker 3: (25:55) And so it comes on trains too late, so it's transdermal cool. Okay. So that's another way you can get it. And, and, and do you offer at your company the tents and the, the whole, the whole shebang for that or, Speaker 4: (26:10) Yeah. So yeah, I, yeah, basically offer all the homophone therapy accessories and gear and everything you need to get cited before that. There's also like you can administer through the ears. And we have modified stiff scopes. That's all made out of ozone resistant material, like Silicon and things. And you just put that into his and that's targeting the brain area. So that'd be good. And things like that then yeah, it's, Speaker 3: (26:44) It's directly targeting that area. So I was, I was really effective. Yeah. Was that local, that local graphs of, of just wherever there is a problem area, if you can target it, then, then it can be very effective. Okay. So, all right, let's, let's transition now into what, what ailments that can help with and we are, so let's start at the head, because you just mentioned there, what is the mechanism or you know, like, I don't wanna get too scientific, but what is the mechanism of action? Is it going through into the ear? And you mentioned also tonight us, cause my husband's got that. So I'm selfishly asking about that. How is that the place for, for tinnitus as well? And how does that work? Speaker 4: (27:30) Yeah, so I, I would actually let's take a step back and you can actually look at what is the cause of disease itself. Yeah, I'll stop there. And yeah, this is, this is where I was on therapy as kind of the biohack is goat ticket to longevity, don't get disease, but you don't really hear of people dying of nothing, you know. There's, there's usually a associated disease. So I would really, really highly recommend, I don't know if you've come across him, but Dr. Frank Shallenberger Speaker 3: (28:27) A little might be a bit, yeah, I'm working on that one. Speaker 4: (28:33) So he, he was, he was one of the forefathers of ozone therapy and in America so 40 years on he had smoked it all. He administered therapy and trained from the first guys that invented the James Bond style, ozone medical ozone generators out of America. And have messes of research university and papers backing them. He trained from them. And, and basically one of the guys that have just been administering ozone therapy in a clinic environment and seeing thousands of patients throughout the years. Yeah. W what he talks about is, is really important. He's basically going into what is the root of cools of disease itself when now when we go out and about and and we'll go to the cheapy cheapy and we'll, yeah, they'll do some bicep tastes and yeah, they might say, okay, we've got healthy lungs and we're breathing healthy ear and they'll send us home and say, we're fine. What Dr. Frank Shallenberger is saying is saying, well no, I can, I can actually run my tests and I can show that you are not actually utilizing that oxygen. You might be breathing plenty. We might be like tricking up on these beautiful mountains that we have in New Zealand and breathing really fresh air and even doing yoga and having really great lung capacity for me and whatever. But we might not have the capacity within our body to utilize that oxygen. And so he's coined this term oxygen utilization. Speaker 4: (30:35) Now it's how can be described as similarly, you know, any vitamin that we that we're told that we, we have two that were depleted, all of them. W we should take. So, so we go to the doctor and they run some tests and they say, okay, your deficient vitamin basics. And so we'll go home and we'll take sort of one of these, but you six now, just because we're taking that everyday, it doesn't actually mean that our body is, that's a really well known within like we need other kinds of vitamins also. So we can actually utilize vitamin. Don't we need the genes to be able to do the right things? Speaker 4: (31:20) So same with oxygen. Just because we're breathing, that doesn't mean that necessarily mean that our body has capacity to utilize it. I mean, certain amount we're obviously using as it would be dead and the best way. And, and that's where yeah, he, he will then run, run some kind of test where he'll is his Scott Paul Murray a certified gadget that he can actually test how well you are utilizing oxygen. So and, and it will actually run the test and it will show, okay, you're using a certain amount. And he also test amount of carbon dioxide that we're expiring. And so what does his show is if you're utilizing oxygen, if you're taking it, if your body has ability to take most of it, and then you're actually, you don't, you don't expire much of the CO2. Speaker 4: (32:24) So that's also great. New cure pump change, but you're really healthy ourselves and no, he's good. He'll link that. For example, we can go onto pub med and we'll run a search for yeah. Basically you mitochondria and aging and we'll come up with heaps and heaps of like thousands of papers and we'll also want to search for mitochondria and disease and it will come up with tens of thousands of papers. So, and it's well established that mitochondria are extremely important. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if, if our levels of mitochondria are really good, then then actually that is a sign that we are utilizing oxygen. So for utilizing oxygen our mitochondrial functioning is, is excellent. Now what he, what Dr. Frank Shallenberger saw from all these thousands of patients over, you know, 30 years of them coming to the clinic is that Mmm, anybody that had any kind of disease, whether it be cancer or order, immune disease and any kind of disease, then he would run this test and it will show that their oxygen utilization is poor. Speaker 3: (34:06) Wow. Man. He'll be fantastic for us all to do to, so no, we were a mitochondria because they're at the basis of all but an agent. Speaker 4: (34:14) That's right. Yeah. And he will also get healthy people coming into the clinic. So that was, you know, and that also Ronald, the other tests showing that they don't have any disease and the, what his tests will show is that the oxygen utilization is excellent. You know, their body's ability to take that oxygen and at the cellular level is really, really amazing. You'll also get like some seemingly people some people that come in that that are functioning quite well and same like they're pretty healthy, but they might have a tumor in the breast for example. And interestingly that tests that he'll do will show that actually the oxygen utilization is not that great. Wow. So he's, he's what is basically showing is he can actually see if the road, to me that's the dog by looking at your oxygen utilization and and so, Speaker 3: (35:32) So what does dr Shallenberger's, he's got his book, the title of his book. Have you got that in your mind? Because it's on my list, but I haven't got there yet. The ozone, the miracle is one of the miracle of ozone miracle. That was a miracle. There we go. I was AmeriCorps. So if you want to dive deeper into dr Shallenberger's work gone. Great bit. Okay. So, okay. So he's looking at the mitochondria cause we're running at a time. You can, we're going to have to speed it up. The, so your, your ability to use oxygen. So how can a ozone Theraphy help it? Speaker 4: (36:13) Sorry, I was on therapy. It's basically directly helping with, with that uptake of oxygen. So when you get this medical grade ozone into the body, it's, it's doing two things. It will have because it cha so it changes it sites very, very quickly because it's reactive. So it will have a little bit of oxidating power and we'll go directly after you know, disease cells themselves. And we all know that disease cells do not thrive in an oxygenated [inaudible]. Same thing. The other thing I was able to do when you get into the body, it will change its state and well form peroxides these yeah, these peroxides clicked flea and honors opioids. And this has a systematic function on the body where you're, yeah, just as something similar to create an upstate of stress. When, when you exercise for example, then you're creating a certain amount of free radicals and your system has to regulate, keep those free radicals in check. That's what it says. Therefore, so, and that's really important. So when, so when you when you get done and similar to when you exercise and your antioxidant system is enhanced and your body is basically stronger so systematically as helping your body fight, whatever's wrong with it, Speaker 3: (37:58) Whatever's wrong with it. So this is, this is why it's good. So what sort of diseases or problems can it be beneficial for? If we, if we did a, a list from a to Z or you know, some of the major players Speaker 4: (38:13) And we did a list from a to Z, then you can pretty much go through absolutely everything because it's going at the Coles of diseases. Speaker 3: (38:23) Sorry, sorry guys. Carry on. My mum has a tip habit of doing that and every one of my podcasts. Speaker 4: (38:36) So mostly when, when people come to ozone therapy though, they'll call me and they've gone to the doctor and they'll be diagnosed with a chronic disease, chronic condition. And that's stuff searched out there for everything known to man. They'll come across the ozone therapy. And honestly, it's such a broad spectrum humor. I've had people come to me and I've had every kind of thing under the sun and they'll say, can this help? And they'll tell me a little bit about it and I'll and I'll, yeah. Also, you know, trick the because it's, it's, there's over 1500 articles. For example, in the American society of ozone therapy on peer reviewed studies of ozone therapy. So, you know, I always like to point people directly to the research that's been done. What's the, is there a website that C A I R R T.com. Speaker 4: (39:38) Dot com if anyone wants to go and do some research. Okay. So it helps a broad range of diseases because it's getting to the actual base cause of the down, down low and what's happening. And you can also treat so you can treat systematically by, for example, going to the clinic during the auto homeopathy or direct IB or during your the Tampax Asia. Or you can do the home ozone therapy and it's easy at Texas. It doesn't cost very much and you can do it more often and it's, and it's just as powerful if you do the rectal insufflation systematically and then you can do the local administration the, the other kinds of routes depending on what your issues are. If you've got brain issues and you can do the air insufflation, anything to do yeah, anything going on up there and the ladies. So it will not thrush out after a single, really, at the very least, you can breathe those and edit oil for any kind of blind condition. Allergies, asthma, Candido. Yeah, yeah. So, and candida like often through the ear, that's where your husband and son, your son often widespread can do that. Yeah, it's often a sign of that. And so you can actually director directly through the ear and transdermally so you can do those notes on and that's really great for heart prevent heart disease prevention, prevention and treatment. And then you can actually bag any of your limbs. Speaker 3: (41:38) The plastic bag, top thing on sale, on the internet. Yeah, Speaker 4: (41:41) Yeah. Problems with veins or just, just aches and pains nerve issues or skin, particular kinds of skin conditions to trying to get it. Then we can either bag or you can use this as an oil. So basically the ozone is howled and the, and the oil and yeah, so I've been liking that for, for 15 years now and it's amazing. Like all the time. People come along and now they'll use it and I'll go, you know, cam, I've tried everything for my ex mouth. All my psoriasis. I've tried, I've honestly tried everything under the sun, but this is the only thing that's actually worked. Likewise for any kind of skin condition and also for gum disease and tastes and things. Speaker 3: (42:40) Dentists have actually used us, you know, that was one of the first, they were the first adopters of the suite. They, because for, for training their equipment. Yeah, Speaker 4: (42:48) That's right. Yeah. So you can so it's really, really powerful at disinfecting it as it will oxides any microbes. So bacteria yeses and every nook and cranny and used in dentistry. And they can also get directly into a root canal itself. And Speaker 3: (43:16) But it's before they put a tooth on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 4: (43:20) And, and dentistry, so, so used you can inject directly into joints just straight into your, your back and you've got a bulging disc or, or osteoarthritis in the knee. You can inject directly into the joints with those own instead of use and cortisone. Speaker 3: (43:38) Oh, Rocky. But again, you can't get that New Zealand probably Speaker 4: (43:43) You can and opened up to wine McCarthy. He offers it and fully trained and, and he does a range of ozone therapy. Speaker 3: (43:56) I have to get all those links off you show notes. Okay, so, so you've got these three molecules inside and it's, what's it actually doing? What some, so you've got either up, you know, the rectally vaginally in the ear through the oil transdermally Ivy, however you've managed to do it. What's it actually, so it's knocking out pathogens, it's taking out viruses. What's it doing in there? Speaker 4: (44:30) Yeah. So yeah, when, when it gets into the body there's two things that does there's limited effects from the ozone itself because ozone is very reactive so it changes it Cypress Cyprus quickly. So, but when it is set ozone, it will go after viruses, bacteria and oxidize them. It's very powerful oxidizer. The second thing it does is as, yeah as, as I mentioned before, it will change the state very quickly and to the proc sides. And yeah, basically getting yeah, your body into check systematically by creating that oxidate of stress, anti antioxidant, it's activated to balance out any theoretical sort of form from, from that. So keeping them in check and that has this wide systematic effect of yeah, really going at the root of cause of disease itself. And it's amazing. I tell you, well, I've had people that have been sent home, you know, various illness and told that, you know, it's so much more than I can do. Speaker 4: (45:44) And they get onto ozone therapy and the most powerful ways, and actually they do, they do really well. And if they get enough training, this is why we wanted to share all this information. Tell you something amazing that's going on with coronavirus at the moment and ozone therapy. I'm like the yeah, so the therapy has it has always been very, we're very well known treatment for infectious diseases. So and it was proven successful with SOLs. Oh, he had success with AIDS and we've got sort of studies on that and you can there's, there's one doctor, dr Robert Rowan. I highly recommend that you follow him on Facebook cause you have a time and now he actually went to West Africa and he had, you know, mess. He had real kind of your bureaucratic and get through and push him, push his way through the medical establishment there. But he was allowed to oversee the administration of direct. I was on auto hand me ups, the two, five Ebola cases and, and had really great success. And where as you know, there's this very made a coma if you come in and shut them down. Right? Yeah. It's an incredible story. Basically who actually contracted Speaker 3: (47:30) It weren't allowed to get their, and some of them died. And the ones who managed to the health workers who managed to get the ozone therapy survived. And this highlights a lot of the problems. Speaker 4: (47:43) Yeah. He's actually in New York city at the moment and he is administering ozone therapy to everybody that wants to yeah. Once he, he's right in the heart of New York city. So, you know, that's, that's what he's doing is offering ozone treatment for anyone that wants it if they can't afford it. Because we all know how the healthcare system is as an American. So he's, he's offering it for free if you can't afford it. And and, and people that are in the early stages, if they've been told that they should be in the hospital and on an NG beta, then legally he's putting everything at risk by trading them and the kind of suppressing that. But if, if you're in the early stages and then he'll treat people, but what's happening and places like Spain and Italy, also China there are, there they are treating we kind of have 19 patients and hospitals and coming out of Italy now is they've actually on their third report and they're just following the, the progress of COVID19 patients in a hospital environment. Speaker 4: (49:01) So two hospitals are in the study and now the retina, the stirred report of 75 covid 19 patients and what it's showing so the, so when, yeah, just understanding that if you go to hospital yeah, then you're already not in a very good way. So and actually for example, they're treating these people the, and they're and you can see all the statistics and the bladed it all out, but there's basically 14, nine non-integrated patients that that they've seen and of of those yeah, that stuff saying really messages of improvement. Yeah. For the ones that have been. Speaker 4: (50:04) And eventually, yeah, the Pope has really recorded it at all. I can give you the study that's saying a hundred percent efficiency for the, for the patients that were non intubated and in the early stages of COVID19. So they're calling it stage one and stage two. If you get in that early stages, then and you treated with the ozone therapy and getting them Derek direct divey then that getting bittering getting sent home basically there if you're intubated there, there are some that got extra debated so they got you know this is really super invasive. By the time you've got something stuck down your throat, then you're, you're already in extremely deep trouble. But I've managed to get some of them off there if they've managed to finish this round of I was in therapy treatment. They were, they showing that there were overall nine people that did die, that were in this hospital environment of the 73 patients that were treated. But those nine people, they were also showing that they didn't actually, they were in such bad state that they can actually finish. Speaker 3: (51:25) They were already intubated and they were already, they couldn't have enough of the ozone. It was too little, too late. Speaker 4: (51:31) But also what the shine as said only takes five sessions of this ozone. Oxygen therapy are painful to get. Right. So it's really quick. And that's also what I find with people that come to me, the various problems, chronic diseases being going through everything so long, they'll get onto ozone therapy and then quickly start getting better very, very quickly. Speaker 3: (51:53) This is super exciting. So we're going to have to wrap up again cause we've, we've, we've done a little, I know this is a big subject day and this, I was trying to push it along a little bit, but I wanted to get to the good stuff. Okay. So I want to get some of those links off you and, and you know, Dr. Wayne McCarthy and dr Robert Rowan. Perhaps you can give me the links. I can put them in the show notes. And your, so we can people reach out to you to find out more about what you are offering your machines. Where's the best place? Speaker 4: (52:28) So I'm a naturalozone.co.nz and all my details are, yeah. On the website. Just quickly, I'll just want to mention what's also extremely relevant in this, this time is actually our air resonators here, air ozone when you're not in the room. Because it's, we're basically, yeah. Going after really powerful, strong concentration of ozone and blasting a room. Then it will remove all viruses, bacteria, pathogens. It's week. Speaker 3: (53:08) No, you could, if someone's being like, you know, in a, in a office environment or factory environment or wherever someone's had the coronavirus or whatever, and you want to make sure you're home, you want to kill the virus, you get a, you'd get one of these, the room, get out of Speaker 4: (53:26) The room while you're doing it. Right? Yeah. And you know, every, like, honestly, every single public area, if it's used safely and you've, you know, after half an hour you can enter back into the room. Those zones dissipated. It's done. It's saying it's oxidized, it's environmentally friendly. It doesn't leave any chemical byproducts. I'm worried about that. That's right. You know, they're like, they're spraying everything with bleach. Speaker 3: (53:55) I want to go back to the gym, but I'm not going back to the gym. Not because of the Corona, but because of the chemicals that they're all spraying around everywhere. Speaker 4: (54:02) We've had this in daycare centers, I'll run it at night when everybody's gone, gone home. And this was before this all hit. But just to stop this spread of flus and colds and we've actually shown 30% reduction and yeah, colds and flus within the kids and stuff. And yeah, so cars, houses, what we're doing is becoming home with our groceries and sticking everything in a box. And I've just got these really small ozone generators and you just put the end of the tube in there and run it for a half an hour and all get into going to try and get touch all the surfaces. If you can get the high concentration, then it is proven that there is no microbe, that it's resistant to ozone Speaker 3: (54:53) Shoot. That is powerful come so that we can really, really protect yourself from whatever else. Speaker 4: (55:00) Yeah. So when, so when all this crisis set my phones yeah, it's just, it's still a, there's still a lot, not a lot of people that really know about it. And also this is kind of you out there are ozone, it's dangerous as bad if you breathe it, you're going to die and things like that. And all we're saying is if you cutting safety labels and everything, and if you, if you operate this machine safely, Speaker 3: (55:30) Every, everything is dangerous. If you use it the wrong way, car is dangerous. If you don't follow the rules on the road, you know that that should not be prohibited from us, from, from using it in, in the, in that when it's going to actually benefit their health. Speaker 4: (55:47) Correct. Yeah. And not, and not ruin the environment, you know, so, so it'd be the penetration than anything else in the market that we can see actually, because it's because it's a guest that we'll get to just to see the hidden areas and things. So Speaker 3: (56:11) What about ozone water? Just last thing. So putting ozone into the water Speaker 4: (56:17) Water is amazing for us. Yeah. And yeah, so we actually have just small resonate ozone generators. If all you want to do is drink ozonated water, it's getting enhanced active oxygen into the body. We should be drinking water anyway. Why not super charge oxygenated water. You can drink up to eight classes a day and you start off slowly and you and you build up drinking on an empty stomach and it's really great energy boost. Boost your immune system also on a water. The students, you know, the hand sanitizer is outside of all the supermarkets at the moment on a hand and these pop paper was skin conditions and things like that. We've got studies that show that ozonated water is significantly more effective than hand sanitizer and it's, and it's good for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to dry. Our skin is actually really good for us. Yeah. Speaker 3: (57:30) Wow. That's powerful. Okay, so everybody go to naturalozone.co.nz. Check out all the machines that come here and what the different applications and you can, you can educate people to people. Buy something, a machine of you, you can educate them in the use of it and do that virtually or how do you do, do that? Speaker 4: (57:52) Yeah. Yeah. So give me a call if you're unsure where to start. And join our newsletter and we will have, we'll be coming out with more videos soon. And we also have oxygen concentrators when, when, what happened, when all this, when we started to go into lockdown because I have oxygen concentrators and stop cause I used in conjunction with industrialized zone and I was doing therapy then. Everybody started panic buying, well my oxygen concentrators. And we, we stopped up for on public and, and, and generally people are getting these as if you've got a lung condition and breathing oxygen or see if you've got SIO PD or if you're an S medic or something like that. Having a oxygen concentrator is a really good idea. Speaker 3: (58:54) Yeah. We've got one extra tour, hyperbaric just to top up, you know, mum's levels, you know, if she doesn't want to get into the chamber cause it's a big mission. Just to, just to have a top off, you know, it's a really good thing to have I think, and especially if you're going to get sick or anything, so. Speaker 4: (59:12) Sure. Speaker 3: (59:14) Okay. So you've got those as well. So you've got a whole re array of, of different devices and you know, the rectal staff and all that. You can explain it cause people would be like, how do I do that? Speaker 4: (59:26) Yeah, right. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, like usually, yeah, if you want to prevent disease and live a long and healthy life, I would really say, you know, at home I was on therapy is biohacking dream. And, and will save you lots of money in the, in the long term, cause you won't need to go to the doctor anymore and you won't need to get some fluids. Speaker 3: (59:51) But prevention isn't it? That's what we're all about, not being there, Speaker 4: (59:56) But usually what's happening. People get disease and they find out about ozone therapy that come to me. Right. But if you're not comfortable with our zone, at the very least drink that water, it's really good for us. Yeah. And, and drink that daily. Speaker 3: (01:00:11) Put it in your ear like that. That can't be too painful. Speaker 4: (01:00:15) Yeah. Speaker 3: (01:00:16) That's fantastic. Kim, thank you so much for your time and your information. I'll grab all those links off you. So naturalozone.co.nz. You've got any questions for Kim? Michelle, she'll answer those heavily for you. Get this word out there. We need to be sharing. This is why we have the show so we can share great information with each other and get, get that to the people that need it. So thanks very much for your time today. Come any last words before we go, Speaker 4: (01:00:41) But just, just thanks so much, Lisa, for having me on the show. Really enjoyed talking to you and yeah, look forward to your upcoming podcast and reading your book. Speaker 3: (01:00:51) Great. And now that we're connected, we'll be dangerous. Speaker 4: (01:00:54) Yeah, absolutely. Speaker 1: (01:00:57) That's it this week for pushing the limits. Be sure to write, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.

2011 US Senior Open Champion Olin Browne, Golf Positive Founder Debbie O'Connell, the Author of Zen Golf & Zen Putting Dr. Joe Parent, plus long lost cousin and PGA Professional John Mascari Join Me. I'll get Olin's thoughts on the PGA Tour Champions season restarting and what he expects the rest of the season to be like. We'll also talk about the 59 he shot while qualifying for the 2005 US Open. I'll talk with Debbie O'Connell about the mental game and how to keep a positive mindset on the course after we've hit a couple of wayward shots. I'll delve deeper into the mind and mental game with Dr. Joe Parent. We'll talk about Mindfulness and how to not get ahead of ourselves when we're on the cusp of a great round.. Then I'll round out the show with Cousin John and we'll talk about his stay at home series "Tips from John's Backyard" and what piece of new technology that he's excited to use when he can get back out on the course.

2011 US Senior Open Champion Olin Browne, Golf Positive Founder Debbie O'Connell, the Author of Zen Golf & Zen Putting Dr. Joe Parent, and long lost cousin PGA Professional John Mascari Join Me. I'll get Olin's thoughts on the PGA Tour Champions season restarting and what he expects the rest of the season to be like. We'll also talk about the 59 he shot while qualifying for the 2005 US Open. I'll talk with Debbie O'Connell about the mental game and how to keep a positive mindset on the course after we've hit a couple of wayward shots. I'll delve deeper into the mind and mental game with Dr. Joe Parent. We'll talk about Mindfulness and how to not get ahead of ourselves when we're on the cusp of a great round.. Then I'll round out the show with Cousin John and we'll talk about his stay at home series "Tips from John's Backyard" and what piece of new technology that he's excited to use when he can get back out on the course.

I have an important topic to cover this week that I think many of us are feeling right now or have felt at some point during this pandemic: anxiety. Most of us blow right by anxiety and right into behaviors, denying those feelings, or avoiding the work to process it. I'm going to challenge you to notice where anxiety has showed up in your life right now. Then I'll share how to better understand your anxiety and work through it. Have a question you want me to answer on an upcoming podcast? Submit it anonymously here: https://bit.ly/35jTfiX

Are you feeling dissatisfied with life wondering. "what's it all about?" You're not alone, that's way I created this episode for you. Finding purpose and meaning in life can be confusing. Society makes you believe that you should already know and that negatively affects your mental health. Let's change that so you can improve your mental health and find your purpose at the same time. Listen now. http://presidentiallifestyle.com/podcasst   If finding meaning and purpose in life is a high priority for you right now and you're interested in talking to me and my executive team about discovering what's missing in your life, then let's talk. Click the link and let's have a private conversation and get you to your purpose. Click here: https://www.presidentiallifestyle.com/a/19543/2jdo2b2V You'll get added to the club plus you'll get a private conversation with me. We will take 16-weeks to guide you through the life you have, the life you want, and bridge the gap between the two. Then I'll show you how to pass it down to your children. I've done it and I'll show you how. Join me now. Are you feeling dissatisfied with life wondering what's it all about? You are not alone, that way i recorded this episode for you. Finding purpose and meaning in life can be confusing. Society makes us believe that we are already supposed to know and that negatively affects your mental health. Let's change that so you can improve your mental health and find your purpose at the same time. Listen now. http://presidentiallifestyle.com/podcasst   If finding meaning and purpose in life is a high priority for you right now and you're interested in talking to me and my executive team about discovering what's missing in your life, then let's talk. Click the link and let's have a private conversation and get you to your purpose. Click here: https://www.presidentiallifestyle.com/a/19543/2jdo2b2V

So just like that, the world has changed. The new coronavirus, COVID-19, caught us all off-guard didn’t it? Many brands and businesses all over the planet including Barbados are in a lurch right now. So this episode is a little different. First I’ll share some perspectives from a few of my previous interviewees to hear what COVID-19 means or has meant for their businesses. Then I'll talk about what brand marketers should keep in mind now as a result of this global pandemic. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dianne-squires/message

In this episode of "Steve has a Chat", I catch up again with Steven Guggenheimer "Guggs" to get the latest on the ISV Connect program. It seems that the word is out at Microsoft about calls from me... they all seem ready now. But I still had a few surprises for him.  Enjoy! BTW, don't forget, Mark Smith (@nz365guy) and I do PowerUpLive every Tuesday at 4PM EST, click here to be alerted, and here's a link to the replays! Transcript below: Steven Guggenheimer: Hello. This is Guggs. Steve Mordue: Hey, Guggs. Steve Mordue. How you doing? Steven Guggenheimer: Good. How are you doing? Steve Mordue: You know how I'm doing. You know why I'm here. Steven Guggenheimer: I do. I do. I assume we're get to go do a little update session, and so I know or I assume you're recording and- Steve Mordue: You bet I am. Steven Guggenheimer: ... whatever I say is ready to go. Steve Mordue: You got time? Steven Guggenheimer: Sure. Yeah, I got a little time. Steve Mordue: All right. Perfect, perfect. Well, it's been a while since we talked. It's actually been a while since we've heard from you. I was looking, and I think November was the last post, kind of an update to the world of what's going on. I've been hearing the hammers banging back in the background, but lots of folks, lots of ISVs are reaching out to me for some reason or other, saying, "Hey, what's the latest? What's going on? What's happening on that ISV front?" Steven Guggenheimer: Yep. Like you said, lots of hammers in the background. Once you get into that middle of the year, you're just mostly heads down trying to do two things, trying to solidify all the work that's going on for this year, so working with the field. The team went out and did a field tour and, on lots of calls, we have our middle of the year checkpoint. You're just grinding away on that, and you start doing the planning for the next fiscal year. It turns out our Q3, which is January, February, March, is kind of double busy. You're working pretty hard to do whatever tweaks you need for this year and you're busy planning for the next year, and so I think everybody's been pretty heads down. Steven Guggenheimer: Then you get into January and February with the virus coming out, I think you're busy trying to figure out, "Are we going to do [MBAS 00:02:13] live?" You plan for one version of it, and then you plan for a different. You're working with customers and partners. I think all of those things combined means everybody's busy. My virtual team gets together on a regular basis, and I've got a couple of calls after this, so that's where we're at. Steve Mordue: The ISVs have definitely had some challenges with Microsoft. Not all of this, of course, is within your area. You're working on the program for ISVs that will link to the products, which you're not related to the products. You're related the program. But on the product side, even, the ISVs are having some challenges. I know that there's been ISVs that... The platform keeps shifting, keeps moving around, new things added, things dropped. I even know some ISVs that have said, "Hey, they just launched something, and it kind of wiped out my whole solution." Steve Mordue: I think there's multiple things going on on the ISV side that's got a lot of them nervous, and I think they're looking for some reassurance that, "We bet on the right platform, and was that a good bet, and when are we going to see a payoff on that bet?" What kinds of things can you say to maybe reassure some of these ISVs that are out there that are scratching their heads saying, "Hmm, what's next? I mean was this a good bet?" Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah. I can't think of a better bet right now, but that's me. Of course, I'm on the wrong side of the fence for that. The- Steve Mordue: Well, we're all biased. Even us ISVs are biased. Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah, we're all biased. Steve Mordue: We're all biased. Steven Guggenheimer: Well, people want a little reassurance that, to your point, that they made good decisions. From a platform and product perspective, there's probably never been more energy in the combination of Power Platform and D365 than we have today. I talked a lot about product truth. I didn't think there was a lot of product truth for an ISV in the platform SaaS offerings if you go back five years when we were in the DPDx days. Steven Guggenheimer: James and [Mohamed 00:04:24] and Charles have just been cranking along, and so from the breadth of the portfolio and the quality in that link to Azure going down the stack and that link to SharePoint and M365 going up the stack and the coherence in the platform. Then we've been cleaning up. I mean God bless the team for all the work they've had to do to clean up just years and years of monolithic offerings that weren't in good shape. That speaks a little bit to the change of the underlying platform. Steven Guggenheimer: We're probably as solid as we've ever been. We've got a twice-a-year release train. The notes come out early. We did an ISV session for the partners to get ahead of it. We'll do that again on an every-six-month basis. Satya is sort of heavily invested. Scott's heavily invested. Amy, our CFO, is heavily invested. I think there's both product or platform truth. There's good energy in the marketplace. I mean we're growing very well. Steven Guggenheimer: Can't say anything. Q3 will be coming up, but you look at Q2 and Q1, you look at just quarter over quarter, now the platform's growing and, if the platform's growing, that's opportunity, in particular, Power Platform, Power BI, some of the D365 services. I think all of that speaks to just incredible momentum. I see a decent number of ISVs coming into the program and the platform unsolicited wanting to take part in that. Steven Guggenheimer: Now, the one place people might feel a little discomfort is, as the platform solidifies and as the services solidify and we add things like AI and mixed reality in there, there might be places where people were making an investment or were looking to extend that we might be extending in that area. I would say, look, if you're an ISV on the Microsoft platform, historically, one of your trademarks is being somewhat nimble. I don't care if it's all the way back to the Windows days and Windows 95 working your way up through the internet era or intelligent cloud, intelligent edge. The value of a platform is that balance between giving developers something to build on and having enough coherence and consistency that both customers and ISVs can count on it. Steven Guggenheimer: There's a fine balance there in terms of where you add features or functionality or new capabilities to keep up with what your competitors are doing, to keep up with what the customers are asking for. It's a balancing act. I think the good thing, at least in the Dynamics side, is that we're always open for conversation. Whether it's myself or Greg or Mohamed or Charles, look, we'll pick up the phone and we'll have the discussion. There'll be places where people might feel uncomfortable that we've gone in that direction. Great. We'll have that conversation, and we'll talk about, roughly, where we're going without breaking NDAs on either side. Steven Guggenheimer: My feedback to ISVs has always been the, "There's always someone at Microsoft who thinks, someday, they're going to build something that competes with you, so let's focus on the 90% where we don't compete and know that there's going to be 10%." I think that's just a truism. Look, energy is really good. I mean product coherence is good. Product truth is good. If you look at what's going on, right now, during the COVID response and the pickup for the Power Platform in terms of helping hospitals and healthcare workers and quick solutions, holy crud. Steven Guggenheimer: Then the new areas are good conversation, so let's have the discussion. I mean I know a lot of the historical ISVs have been around a long time, and some of the work they did that was either custom on the product side or custom in terms of working with our field as we make that available to everybody, that feels a little less comfortable. We do a good amount of handholding for that. Steve Mordue: Yeah. I think one of the things you guys have been telling ISVs, for years, as a way to build a business but also, in a way, to protect your business is to go vertical. The more vertical you can get, the safer you are. You guys are not going to go there. A lot of horizontal ISVs, and they're... If you're horizontal, you're plugging a hole. You're always at risk that Microsoft's going to get around to the time to plug that hole. You're definitely safer going vertical. Steven Guggenheimer: That's for sure, and that's even more true today. As some of our competitors invest in the acquisition of vertical solutions, it opens up that direction more. I would say, as a company, we're making that pivot, albeit slowly but surely, to industry-led versus product-led. We've always had product conversations. We've always had audience conversations, developers or IT pros. We've always had sides of organization enterprise, but industry was always kind of a... not as strong a direction in terms of how we went to market. We pivoted the company pretty heavily, and Azure's doing a lot of this work at M365, and so is Dynamics. In industry-based solutions, those are always the ones that get the best pickup, and now our sales force is pivoting more and more in that direction. That's the way to stay aligned. Steve Mordue: Yeah. You talked about nimble. Frankly, one of the challenges some of these ISVs have is they're not that nimble. They built a bunch of IP on something, and their goal was to just sit back and collect checks, but you can't do that anymore. We're no longer in a space you just build something and sit on it for years. You may not be able to sit on it for months before you've got to go back in, modify, refactor, take advantage of some new technology or... It's a continuous motion now for ISVs. They're in continuous development mode where they didn't use to be. It was like, "We're going to go build something, sit on it, and cash in." Steven Guggenheimer: And particular in this space, and we see it a lot. I use the term, sometimes, there's this notion of lifestyle businesses where you build something and it supports the lifestyle, and there's not a lot of interest or energy in reinvesting to change it or modify it. Truthfully, that doesn't work. There are places where- Steve Mordue: Tell me about it. Steven Guggenheimer: They're- Steve Mordue: That's what I've been trying to do. Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah, it's not working. Part of the blog series I've been working on, it's called Continuous Transformation, and it's all... If you look at 25 years or the 26 years of Microsoft, all we've ever done is evolved and changed, and it's driven by technology and scale and culture. I can't remember a period of time where something's not upending the conversation. Steve Mordue: Yeah, but the pace is much greater in the past few years. The shift to the cloud and the catch up, really, because we were behind getting in the cloud, the catch up necessitated a pace that we have not ever seen from Microsoft, this kind of a pace. Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah. I think, in the line of business application space or the Dynamics/Power Platform, we were further behind in that move, as a Microsoft property, than some of the others, be it Office or Azure, and so we're doing a lot of catch up, and that's why think that... I talked a lot about product truth. I think they've done a phenomenal job, but that's like a bit of a whip where we're as close to it as you can be and, the further out you get, the more you're going to have to go and make those changes, and you're playing a lot of catch up. Steven Guggenheimer: The truth is, D365, there were custom deals floating around there and custom support and all kinds of things that, as you modernize and change, that goes away. I think some [crosstalk 00:12:10]- Steve Mordue: It's not scalable, yeah. Steven Guggenheimer: Well, people get frustrated because they had this special deal. Well, look, we don't even build that product anymore or that product's not one we're trying to sell. We're off doing cloud stuff, so no, we're not going to go renew a set of terms or a set of conditions for something that we're not trying to drive anymore. The market's moved on. That's gone, and so you need to go modify and change your solution to meet the current market needs. Yeah. Steven Guggenheimer: On one hand, I get it. On the other hand, look, the time to move is now. The world is moving, and the opportunity is very good. Despite current conditions which are there, look, there's... The world, the first thing they move is their infrastructure as a service. They move the core horizontal infrastructure out, but sooner or later, the next thing they're going to do is they're going to want to go to a set of SaaS applications. They're not going to want to have a cloud-based infrastructure then run some client server on-premises solution. They're going to want to set a SaaS services. Steven Guggenheimer: Even though people may feel like it's a push or it's a hurry, that's where the world's going. We're going to go push on it, and you need to move your solutions there. Steve Mordue: I'll tell you, it's been very acute, these folks that have on-premise solutions, particularly if they're physically on premise, with this virus and the push to send everybody to work from home in organizations that really weren't set up for people to work from home from a technical standpoint. Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah. Steve Mordue: I'm sure there are people out there now that are thinking, "Damn, I wish we were in the cloud right now because those guys got it pretty easy working from home if you already made this transition." It's very acute right now. Steve Mordue: I was talking to Charles two weeks ago. I pounced on him, or a week ago, I pounced on him for a call. He was saying one of the things that's a- Steven Guggenheimer: You are getting a bit of a reputation, but keep going. Steve Mordue: Yeah. People are going to be scared and have my number blocked. Steven Guggenheimer: Nobody's going to pick up the phone. Steve Mordue: One of the things he said that was a big focus right now is making everything work better. It's like we were firing off lots of solutions, getting them to like 90%, move on to the next one, fire it off, fire it off. Now there's this effort to kind of go back to this. Let's close these gaps. As he was talking about, there's still some significant gaps in not the product truth. The product truth is there, but there's some gaps that they're now really going to focus on closing. It feels like it's kind of like it's time to do that. We've shot out tons of things. Now let's go back, tighten them all up, and then go back to revisit shooting out more things so- Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah, I think that's right. You look for gaps and overlaps. You look for how do we take all the AI scenarios? They're kind of scattered. Can we bring some of them together? Do they make sense together? When they first came into the portfolio, they were sort of all independent, so we ran them uniquely and independently and just kept them going and, excuse me, tried to find alignment with the various SaaS services. Now you go back and you say, okay, where is their consistency? Where is the sum of the parts greater than the individual? Steven Guggenheimer: You go and you look for whether it's process automation and the work we're doing there, whether it's the power of virtual agent. If you look at what they've done in terms of for COVID-19 in terms of using a virtual agent, making it available, how do you turn these into tools that can really scale and operate and work at the levels needed? Steven Guggenheimer: I think Mohamed's got the same thing. There's a bunch of solution areas as we took ERP and CRM and took them into their natural marketing and sales and finance and operations, and we picked up some other areas. He's doing that same work. Now is a beautiful time to not necessarily double the number of offerings or add a whole bunch of new products. It's now is the time to take the momentum we've got and the offerings we've got and fill in the gaps and, where there's overlap, bring things together, make these things really operate at scale. Steven Guggenheimer: When you have the energy and you've got the interest, then what you start to get is feedback on what you're missing or what's not quite right. We want to take advantage of this time to go work on that. Steve Mordue: Let me circle this back to your space, the ISV side specifically. Over the past month, I've had two calls with some folks on your team that were looking for my opinion about some complaints they were getting, because you know I have opinions, about some complaints they were getting from some ISVs that had built their solution depending on this Team Member license and the changes to Team Member. I am actually aware of a couple of these ISVs that actually built their solution on the Team Member license without regard for the restrictions of that license. Certainly pretty easy to make your ISV solution have a lot of appeal if you've put it on a lesser license than it should be on. Steven Guggenheimer: Right. Steve Mordue: They're complaining now about the changes. Both of your folks had asked me my thought about that. I said, basically, "The hell with them." I mean I have no sympathy for somebody who built a solution on top of a license they shouldn't have. If you can't make revenue on the right license, then your solution's not right or you're thing isn't right. I mean do you have similar feelings of lack of sympathy for those folks that did those things? Steven Guggenheimer: I sort of think about it a little bit differently. Yes, look, there's people that take advantage of, it maybe intentionally or unintentionally, of licensing they shouldn't. That just has to get fixed, and we'll go work on that. Steven Guggenheimer: What there is that I think about is there are two scenarios that I think of as light use or light functionality scenarios. If you have something, a very large group of people... Students is a good example. Healthcare workers might be a good example. Pick your scenario where you have lots of people, and you have some people that are heavy users, and you have some people who might touch the solution once or twice a year or who touch the solution quite often, but they need just a very lightweight answer to it. They're not- Steve Mordue: A light touch. Steven Guggenheimer: They're users. They're users versus creators. That lightweight or light touch scenario is one we still are trying to figure out the right scenario for because there's not a great license type for this. By the way, this isn't a Dynamics-type conversation. I can say the same thing for Office for all the years it was there and people would talk about different types of workers. It's one of the- Steve Mordue: Contract workers, things like that. Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah, yeah. They used to use the term knowledge workers, and there was something else I can't remember. There is a collective challenge, which is how do you build a licensing framework where you can't tell between the two, light touch or light use, or you can tell but there's no consistency. If I ask the question, "What does light touch mean to one ISV or light use?" I'll get a very different answer than what I get from another one, so you can't design a licensing type that works for everyone. Steven Guggenheimer: That's one where I definitely have some empathy. It's not a sympathy term. I get it. I don't know what the answer is. To your point, ultimately, you have to design the solution to work with the licensing types that are out there. There's this funny juxtaposition between everybody wants simplicity but everybody wants all ultimate choice. Well, those two things aren't the same. You either get simple or you have the... and not as much choice or you get all the choice in the world. It's the most complex thing you'll ever seen, and so I don't know the answer to solving for this one. Steven Guggenheimer: I know that the licensing teams are very aware of it. They've had tons of these calls, in a good way, but there's not... I don't know the answer. I haven't seen anybody figure out the answer in 10-plus years of banging heads on this, and so I do think trying to design a solution for the licensing types that are out there is the right thing to do. Team doesn't serve that purpose. It's gone relative to that where people try to use it for something that it wasn't designed for, which in many cases, is that light use, light tough scenario, but it doesn't work. Steven Guggenheimer: We'll keep banging our heads. We'll keep talking to people. People do have to work within the licensing confines that are out there. We're always evolving them. We're always taking feedback. We're always trying to do better. Assuming something's going to come magically, it doesn't happen. Steve Mordue: We're not alone there. I was reading the Forrester Report on low-code solutions. We're obviously up there at the top now with a couple of others. The negative for all of the ones at the top was overly complex licensing. I was just thinking to myself, "You know what? Whoever figures that out is going to win because that's the thing holding all of the low-code platforms back a little bit is people can't figure out how to buy it." They just can't. Partners can't figure out what to sell. Customers can't figure out what to buy, too many moving parts in the licensing. Fortunately, we're not the only ones that have that problem, but whoever could figure that out is really... I'm sure you guys have got some smart people trying to figure that out. Steve Mordue: A couple of other things before I let you go. On- Steven Guggenheimer: Well, just on that one, there's also a difference between the customer angle for that and the ISV angle. Trying to figure out a licensing framework that works well for customers and ISVs, whether it's the low-code scenario or some of these others, it adds to the complexity. I highlight that in the sense that customers are a big chunk of... That's typically where we start first when we're working on a licensing framework because they're the... many times are the purchasers or it ends up as part of a broader agreement set, and so we have to figure that out, and so that- Steve Mordue: Actually, I think it's easier for ISVs because, as an ISV, I can figure out and understand what license would be necessary to run my solution and talk to a customer about, "Here's exactly what you need to run my solution." Bigger challenge, I think, for customers and SIs where a customer's like, "We want to do all these wonderful things," and then for them to try and figure out what kind of licenses they might need to accomplish those things. At least I know what I'm doing with my solution. It's pretty straightforward. I may have to shift it from a license I used to have it on to some different licensing construct as things changes, but it's a little easier for me. Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah. Steve Mordue: One of the things that came up in one of my calls with a pretty good size ISV recently was the lack of... I think he told me his costs this year are going to be over $90,000 for Microsoft licensing to be able to actually build and develop their solutions on between their multiple sandboxes, different things like that. It's a frustration for him that, "I'm building an ISV solution, a big one. I have lots of customers that are generating licenses and revenue for Microsoft, but I'm having to spend, as an ISV, a ton of money to even be able to do that." Steve Mordue: We had that ISV competency out for about eight minutes, decided that wasn't a good path. Some of the other paths to get IUR and those sorts of things that you would need to build on aren't always relevant for ISVs. The biggest thing the ISV competency really gave was, "Here. Here's some benefits. Here's some resources for you to go build on." What can we tell those folks that... I mean this guy's literally having to buy retail. You know? Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah. That's a Microsoft-level challenge in many ways. It's the what's the benefits? It really comes out of the MPN, the Microsoft Partner Network. What's the benefits? That's where that competency came from of being a partner and, if you're an ISV, how can you get access to the software you need to build a solution? Steven Guggenheimer: I know that the team is deeply aware of that. It's from the day the ISV competency went away to through all the conversations. I haven't checked in in a while to see where they are on coming up with an offering. I'll go back and ask. It's a good question. I don't know. Look, I don't know the answer, the how do you provide software? It ends up being, to your point, sandboxes or one-offs or these other things versus what's the programmatic approach that scales across Azure, Dynamics/Power Platform at M365? How do we make it available? What do you need to do to qualify, as a partner, so it's not just out there for everybody? It's an expensive offering [crosstalk 00:25:23]- Steve Mordue: Yeah, so is manning an ISV practice with developers and people to build, so- Steven Guggenheimer: Yep. No, they're both... That's right. Steve Mordue: Yep. Steven Guggenheimer: How do we find that balance? I don't know. Again, it's a little bit like a light-usage, lightweight licensing SKU where I haven't seen the answer to that. This is one of those ones that pops up and down in terms of, sometimes, we seem to give a lot of benefit in that direction, and sometimes we don't. Let me go back. I'll go back. It could be one of the last things I can go poke on a little bit, especially since- Steve Mordue: Yeah. That would be good. Steven Guggenheimer: Especially since I know Nick super well. Nick Parker took over the... He has the ISV remit underneath him now, so I'll go bug him about that. Steve Mordue: Yeah, we kind of kicked the can down the road when the ISV competency went away, kind of grandfathered everybody into business biz apps or some other competency while we figured it out, but now we'll be looking at people coming up on that expiring, and they'll be like, "Okay, now what do I got?" I mean it's obviously a big expense for ISVs when they're looking at partnering with Microsoft. They're thinking, "Here's something you can do for me," but other things- Steven Guggenheimer: No, that's super constant, consistent feedback. That's not a new one. We probably had that conversation the first time we did a call and- Steve Mordue: Every time since. Steven Guggenheimer: Every time since, and I still haven't... It's one I get to poke on. It's not one that I own, but it's one that I'll go poke on again. Steve Mordue: How is ISV Connect? Have you guys collected revenue yet? Are we at the point where we're collecting revenue from ISVs? Steven Guggenheimer: Oh, yeah. Yeah, collecting revenue. We crossed 1,000 ISVs that have signed the agreements. I think we've crossed 1,000 apps in AppSource now. We've done all the work to remove the ones that didn't go through certification that didn't join ISV Connect. Steven Guggenheimer: We're actually in a good in a good spot. We've got a decent number at the 20% level, and we're trying to get the ones that our field is really asking for aligned with more of the 20-percenters because those are the ones that are going to close out with the most. I feel really good about the getting people into the program. We've gotten the time to do the certification down. That's all been cleaned up. I think terms and conditions, we've been through all of that. We're heading into the next year. We won't add a lot, so keep it simple, do more of the same. Steven Guggenheimer: The place we're spending energy now is on the benefits side. We've got almost all the partners activated with their marketing benefits now, and they've had the call, and we're working on that. On the co-selling side, look, we're continuing to do the work with the field to drive that forward. Some people feel pretty good about it and we get really good feedback, and some people don't feel as good quite yet, and so we're working on both of those. Steven Guggenheimer: Now as you head into Q4 with an economic challenge around the world, everybody hunkers down a little bit, so we're going to have to work a little harder. One of my meetings later today is how do we stay focused on the right things and the fewest number of things to keep the momentum going as we head into this year and next? We're doing the planning for what would we tune for next year. Overall, it's going well. Steven Guggenheimer: The operations, a lot of the challenges we had, once you got past the people discomfort with a new program, a lot of challenges we had were operations. We're cleaning those up. We have some marketplace work to do. We've had good calls with that team. When people give us feedback, we understand it. We're doing the engineering work now. I sort of feel like we'll work our way through Q4 this year and then, as we head into the next year, we'll have both an engineering uptick on operations work, on the marketplace, on the back end. There's work going on on Partner Center because it's going to scale to more and more partners across the company. Steven Guggenheimer: I feel pretty good, not perfect. I always say these things are a journey and they take time, that's for sure, and so we'll- Steve Mordue: Yeah, yeah. It always takes longer than you think, right? Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah, yeah. I'm scarred enough to know that we still got another year of cranking away, but we're in a good spot given where we were. The energy's in a good place. We just got to keep focused and keep going. Steve Mordue: Yeah. Maybe there's a way to solve both those problems. I seem to recall, at least, the initial benefits that were being, "Here, in exchange for the rev share, we're going to give you guys these benefits." A lot of those benefits were targeting brand-new ISVs. A lot of the benefits on that list for an established ISV, they were like, "Oh, I don't need this. I don't need this. I don't need a bunch of these things as an established ISV." Those are all, certainly, high value to someone brand-new to the platform, which is something we all want is more ISVs. Maybe there's a way to tie in those IURs or the benefits back to, "Okay, you don't want a marketing thing? Fine. How about if we give you some credits that you could use towards the underlying platform stuff you might need that could be a little more value to those folks?" Steven Guggenheimer: That's some of the conversations we're having is which benefits are people finding value in? Where would they like to see other benefits? The IUR is a constant one, so that one I sort of table off on the side because it's a consistent. Steve Mordue: Yeah, yeah. Definitely, benefits will be different for someone brand new to the platform who's never done anything versus someone who's been there for a long time. Let me ask- Steven Guggenheimer: Right. This is one of the trade-offs when you go... A platform is only as strong as its ecosystem. To make the ecosystem stronger, you're going to add more people in, and so you're going to bring people in. Part of what you're trying to do is attract that. Not all of those things feel great for the people that have been there and been working on it. That's where a little bit of the tuning and being agile helps because you're adapting to... Look, the platforms are going to scale and grow. It's in a good spot, so there's going to be more people you know on it, and so we have to find that the tools that work for everyone. Steve Mordue: Yeah. Thanks to your little kick, I got a call next week with about a dozen people on the AppSource team, so they're going to get an earful of all my opinions so they can put that in the mixer. Steven Guggenheimer: No, I think it'll be good because look... and they know. To be honest with you, they know. We told them, "Look, it's better to hear directly. There's a couple of folks, we're having them talk to you. They're sending me the feedback," and then they can tell you where they're at and what they're doing and why it's taking a little longer than maybe people had hoped for. That's the beauty of doing it right and getting it fixed is... not the beauty, the reality. Steve Mordue: Necessity. Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah, the reality or the necessity. It's a little like rebooting this program. Steve Mordue: I want to wrap up here because I don't want to take up too much of your time. Steven Guggenheimer: Yep. Yeah, I got somebody- Steve Mordue: You recently announced a retirement. Steven Guggenheimer: Yep. Steve Mordue: Coming soon. Who's going to be stepping into your shoes for this ISV motion? Figured that out yet? Has that been just thought about? Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah. No, we're going to move the team into another part of the organization. It'll be close to the Accelerator Team, which used to report to me anyway, and the Industry Team and with one of our real good leaders and with DSI. It'll end up in a spot with Greg and Sean still running their teams aligned with the work going on for another key part of the ecosystems, which is SIs, and the industry work, which has a ton of ISV work. It's all the accelerators. Again, that team used to report into my org, so it'll feel like a pretty natural connection into places it would fit and the people we've worked with pretty closely all along. Steve Mordue: You're going to have every single one of these issues fixed, buttoned up, running like a well-oiled machine before you walk out the door, right? Steven Guggenheimer: I'm going to stay committed to doing the best job to make sure we're set up well for our next fiscal year to transitioning well and to being there. Then I'll be around for a little longer to make sure if there's questions or engagements that are needed to done that I do them. Steve Mordue: All right, cool. Well, I'm looking forward to everything that that comes. Thanks for making the time for the call. Steven Guggenheimer: No worries. I always enjoy a surprise call on whatever day it is. Days get lost nowadays, but- Steve Mordue: Yeah. I'll bet you enjoy them, right? Steven Guggenheimer: Yeah. Steve Mordue: All right, man. Have a good one. Steven Guggenheimer: All right. We'll talk you, Steve. Take care. Bye.

Learn more about Vice Ventures by following their Instagram accountDue to COVID-19 we are no longer asking for financial support for the show, instead you can now join free mentorship group calls with Fabian to get through this together. Join here.Full Transcript:F Geyrhalter:Welcome to the show, Catharine.Catharine:Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome.F Geyrhalter:Oh absolutely. So you're in your late 20s, you did your time on the M&A team at Walmart, as well as worked for the founder of Bonobos. And you now run a VC firm that invests in all the things normal VCs not only not invest in, but are usually advised to never ever invest in. Your firm is called Vice Ventures, and vice meaning immoral or wicked behavior. This includes anything from alcohol to drugs, gambling, sex, you name it. All the things that VCs stay away from.F Geyrhalter:And they actually even have a vice clause in many VC firms which inhibits the majority of them to invest in otherwise highly lucrative industries like edibles and e-sports, which is kind of crazy. And it's a crazy good market if someone is smart and bold enough to step into it, and that is exactly what you have done. On your website, your one liner, and that's pretty much all there is on the website, it reads, "Vice Ventures is a seed stage venture capital fund conquering stigmas and striving towards superior returns by investing in good companies operating in bad industries." I absolutely love that. How did Vice Ventures start out, and how difficult was it to get the initial fund for Vice Ventures established?Catharine:Yeah, so about two and a half years ago now, I guess, I invested in a canned wine business with the last of my Wall Street bonus, when I was working for Andy. Then flash forward, I followed Andy to Walmart after the acquisition on the digitally native vertical brands. I'm an 18 there. Some people absolutely love working at Walmart in M&A, and I was not one of those people, so early on I told Andy that I wanted to leave and I wanted to work in venture. He was extremely supportive of it. I interviewed at a ton of super venture firms just because I knew all these [inaudible 00:02:08] managing Andy's portfolio. And they all asked me to pitch a business. So I pitched Bev, which is the direct to consumer, now Omni Channel, canned wine business that I invested in early on that Founders Fund recently came in for.Catharine:And at the time all of these fund managers were like, you know Catharine, we love the founder, we love the brand, we love our strategy. We just can't get involved because we just can't invest in alcohol. And that to me, it was just unbelievably shocking that this whole category of investment people just couldn't touch to you even though spirits have exits every few months. Beer have a great run of high multi revenue exits. And I just couldn't believe that they weren't allowed to invest in it. And then upon further investigation I learned about the vice clause, which exists in most, I would argue, of a seed stage series A consumer funds. Meaning that they can't invest in alcohol, cannabis, nicotine, sex tech, online gambling, psilocybin and ketamine, you name it. They're barred from those investments.Catharine:So that's basically how I came up with the idea for the fund. The thesis proved true when I met the founder of Recess, which is a CBD sparkling water. I was one of the first people to invest in him. We had one meeting. I thought the brand was brilliant. I thought Ben Witte, the founder, had really something special about him. So I committed on the spot. I raised a pretty big SPV, begging people to invest in me. I had some people who were like, we're only investing because we believe in you, not because we believe in Recess. I was like whatever, like that's totally fine with me.F Geyrhalter:Take your money. Take it.Catharine:Yeah. Like whatever. So then that took off and that proved the thesis true because a lot of big funds loved the branding as well, and loved the founder but couldn't get involved because they had this vice clause. Because full spectrum hemp has 0.3% THC.F Geyrhalter:And you got Marc Andreessen, one of the biggest names in Silicon Valley, to invest fairly early on in your fund. Right? How did you pull that off? How does a conversation like that go about? Especially in the beginning where you weren't in the press and people didn't quite know. How did you, A, approach him? How did you even get a meeting with him? And what did he say after you told him what's going on?Catharine:That's so funny. Yeah. So I have a pretty incredible lawyer, meaning that he's more of a partner for Vice Ventures than he is just legal advice. And he was like look out there, you don't have the money to pay for this if you don't soft circle cash beforehand for the docs. He's like, you need to find people who want to invest before we spend, I don't know, 60 to $100,000 incorporating a fund. So I was like, okay fine. So he goes off in a hurry and leave and I'm thinking of who invest in funds. I have absolutely no idea. I don't come from money.Catharine:And then I was like, who is the richest person I have the email of? And that was Marc Andreessen. So I just cold emailed Marc Andreessen with this deck that three other people had seen before. And I was like, he's probably not going to respond, whatever. At least I tried.F Geyrhalter:Right.Catharine:And then I woke up in the middle of the night, like at two in the morning, just bolt upright awake. Which is really rare for me. I'm a very good sleeper. And I checked my email and he responded. And I screamed. I started crying, I could not believe it. My husband was like, what is going on? It's two in the morning.Catharine:It was just such a pivotal balloon for me. And he was like, I love what you're doing. Is January too late? Because this was December. And I was like, absolutely not. So I flew out to San Francisco, I had no money. I slept in the shittiest Airbnb of all time. That was bunk beds and a ton of engineers that wanted maybe one day to start a business. It was so gross. And I went to his office, I got there 45 minutes early because I was terrified of being late. And I had nowhere to go because I didn't want to go in. So I just waited in this park area.F Geyrhalter:Oh this is awesome.Catharine:On the phone with my lawyer who was in shock that anybody was paying attention to me. Yeah. And then the meeting went really well. Marc is, I mean he lives up to the hype. He's a complete genius. He asked me highly intelligent questions. He got the concept very quickly. And he committed. It was awesome.F Geyrhalter:Wow. That's-Catharine:And very lucky.F Geyrhalter:That is pretty amazing. And so to date, I mean, this is how long ago? Like a year and a half, two years? Not that long ago, right?Catharine:Yeah. So it was 2019, January.F Geyrhalter:Okay. Yeah. Good. So you're a year plus in. What are some of the big investments? And what type of companies are there? Would we know any of them? Any background that some of the companies you invested in would be awesome.Catharine:Yeah. So we recently announced a sizeable investment in a company called Lucy. And Lucy is founded by some of the Soylent founders. It's a nicotine gum and lozenger business. And the thesis is basically that e-cigarettes has helped create a whole new generation of smokers or vapers, and 90% of people who tried to stop smoking or vaping failed to do so. So basically Lucy is coming in and reducing the harm of vaping and smoking by having very flavorful gums and lozengers.F Geyrhalter:That super cool.Catharine:It's brilliant. I'm obsessed with the founders. I'm obsessed with the idea. I talk to them weekly. I love them very, very much.F Geyrhalter:Right.Catharine:So that's one. Yeah, sorry.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, no, sorry to interrupt. But I was actually on the Lucy site last night to prep for the podcast. And I mean, what a cool... I mean, not only a great idea, right? But what a really, really well executed brand. And one of the things that they state on the site, "Come for the nicotine, stay for the breath of fresh air." I mean, branding must've been such a crucial element, they way they decide to structure the brand. So now add the interest, overall it's really smart and right on the money. How far along were they with the messaging and branding when you invested in them?Catharine:I met them about three years ago before I had the [inaudible 00:09:10]. I was still working for Andy. I loved the founder, or the CEO. There's three founders. We hopped on the call, we just spoke probably for over an hour. It was scheduled to be 30 minutes. We just got along so well, it was wild. And I just immediately understood what he was doing and why he was doing it. And he was raising a seed round at the time, but I didn't have a fund and I didn't really have any money because I'd invested in Bev already. So then he came to New York with one of their designer, Julio, and we ended up having a two and a half hour breakfast. It was an absolute blast. I immediately recognized and saw how intelligent this team was. And I stayed really, really close with them because I knew that I wanted to be involved in the series A, in a big way.F Geyrhalter:And at that point the brand was already pretty developed, right? Or did it change a lot? And how hands-on are you with that? I mean, I heard in one of your interviews that you like to have that advisor and mentor role as well.Catharine:Yeah. I mean, I definitely end up being that role for a lot of my founders. One of my founders recently went through a breakup and called me every day for three and a half weeks. Like two in the morning. Which is fine. My husband's the same, he's so patient.Catharine:But I mean, I take those calls because I've built something. I'm like, I know how difficult and how stressful it is to build something from scratch and just to have somebody who both invested in you and believes in you. I have one LP like that who, I'm so incredibly lucky that he invested in me because he hosted my portfolio company. He will give me a second eye on businesses. He helps with the operations of the fund. And just because he loves the thesis and loves the movement that we're trying to start. [crosstalk 00:11:13] So it's based on choices. It's a really strong community.F Geyrhalter:What are some other startups? I interrupted you before because I got too excited about Lucy.Catharine:Lucy is definitely one to be excited about.F Geyrhalter:Right, right. Any other ones? You did invest in Mod recently, right?Catharine:Yes. Another founder that is very dear to my heart. I invested in her because I thought the brand was extremely strong in the sense that it was very clean and it wasn't very kitschy or really girly. It was very gender neutral intimacy business. And they sell vibrators, condoms, lubricants, bath salts, candles. They're actually in J. Crew right now, which is awesome.F Geyrhalter:Oh wow.Catharine:Yeah, they're in a ton of stores, mom and pop stores and all throughout the Northeast. Yeah. And they're doing very, very well.F Geyrhalter:Well, and with Mod, I mean, Mod looks more like [inaudible 00:12:15] on steroids then having anything to do with sex. Right? I mean, it's-Catharine:Yeah. It's beautiful.F Geyrhalter:And you discussed, I think it was in the podcast with Chase, and you discussed how obviously, pretty obviously, companies that are in the business of sex cannot advertise on Google, Facebook, et cetera. Right? But Mod was so smart that they created ads in the beginning for the beautiful looking massage candle, which is just a beautiful looking candle, and that's how they lured people through these ads onto their site. And I just think that's so whip smart. I guess, no pun intended. But with the startups you advise and invest in, do most of these advertising, marketing, those branding ideas come from the founders themselves, or through the help of external agencies or consultants?Catharine:It really depends on the business. I have an advisor for Vice Ventures, Costa Damaskos who runs an agency called Virtually Real. So they did a lot of work with Recess, which is how I met him. So he also works with a lot of my founders and helps them think about branding, helps them think about messaging, packaging, website. We're about to get a new website. He did our website and it looks amazing. Yeah. So a lot of the companies in the portfolio they use Costa.F Geyrhalter:So when you work with startups, when do you advise them to invest in branding? Does it vary by focus? Because you mentioned your Vice Ventures website, but it is pretty anti-brand though, your website, right? It's literally a splash page. It's a beautiful splash page with the perfect messaging. Right? Or did it change? Have I been on the wrong site?Catharine:It's about to be a lot more robust.F Geyrhalter:Ah, okay.Catharine:But when you run a one person fund and you have separate portfolio companies, you have a priorities list and the website for me does the job, so I haven't really bothered to change it. But for a lot of my portfolio companies, I mean, super important because it's Vice, because a lot of them can't advertise through traditional channels. It's really important they have strong branding and really good PR. I would argue.F Geyrhalter:So you advise them pretty early on to invest in branding and get their story right. Then ensure that they understand the customer and the messaging, et cetera, et cetera.Catharine:Yeah. But what's funny about a lot of these Vice products is that, like take Recess, for example, it's the first time in the history of the world there's been the CB sparkling water. And it's rapidly growing, they have huge orders online in the Midwest. And it's really interesting to think who that customer is and how that customer is consistently changing as the brand gets bigger and bigger.F Geyrhalter:Right, because in the beginning it's not a customer that exists yet. Right? And that's what's so interesting is defining someone out of nowhere and just... I mean, you must be doing, I mean not you, right? But the founders of a company like that must be doing tons of AB tests, and data must be super important. Right? Even though in the beginning it's most probably a lot of gut instinct.Catharine:Totally. [inaudible 00:15:39].F Geyrhalter:Have you... Oh go ahead.Catharine:No, no, go.F Geyrhalter:How have you invested in any psychedelic startups? The reason why I ask, there is a mesmerizing article in the March edition of Forbes magazine. And I couldn't even believe it. I think it's 12 pages in Forbes that goes deep into that subject. And it discusses how many bet on psilocybin being the next big thing to cure PTSD. And psilocybin of course being the psychoactive component of magic mushrooms. It's a fascinating space that is currently being quite the hype. And from what I have read, rightfully so. Have you touched any of that?Catharine:No, I haven't, just because the horizon of my fund is 10 years. And I think a lot of these companies are going through FDA process to be approved. I think their return portfolio is probably a little more than 10 years. So I think it's a bit early for venture funds, unless you're a family office and you can of course wait 20 years for a return.F Geyrhalter:I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But are you interested in that kind of company? How do you see that? Did you read up about it at all? Is that something that's on your horizon?Catharine:Yeah, I mean I see anywhere between 80 and 200 businesses a week internationally.F Geyrhalter:Oh wow.Catharine:So I've seen a ton, a ton of psilocybin businesses, whether they're in the US, or their in Amsterdam, Canada. I just think it's too early for Vice Ventures to be involved in that yet. I mean, I'm not a doctor, I don't have the background being a doctor. I can't understand the FDA. I can understand the research papers that have been done on it. But at the end of the day I can't make the best call on whether a psychedelic business is better than a different psychedelic business. Like for branding at least I feel like I have that background. I worked for a founder who invested in incredible brands and created an incredible brand. So I kind of know what building that business looks like. But when it comes to, like for example [inaudible 00:17:49], which is an incredible psilocybin business, they just passed to be process of the FDA and that is meaningless to me. I can research it again, but I'm not the best person to make a judgment call on that.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, no, no, totally. So out of those 100 plus companies that come across your desk, I guess your email, on a weekly basis, how do you judge which ones you read, which ones you open, which ones you actually have a meeting with? How is your process? I mean, you get inundated with that.Catharine:Yeah, I do. The first thing I look for is brands. So we don't invest in extraction businesses and growth facilities and tanning companies, like packaging companies. We are strictly pretty much brand investors. Unless, I mean the one exception I guess would be Player's Lounge, which is a platform for e-sports. But even then, they have a very strong brand for what they're doing. Yeah, so brand first. Then I'll take a screening call. I never meet with founders in person until I've had a screen. And then the third one is meet me in person and [inaudible 00:19:04] vetting who they are as a human. Like we try to invest only in super intellectually honest people, just because investing advice, the regulations change constantly. The compliance changes. You really need somebody that has the intellectual honesty to know when they need help. So that's something, that's a character trait that I definitely look for.F Geyrhalter:Makes a lot of sense. And to make sure that they don't misspell your name.Catharine:Yeah. [crosstalk 00:19:32] That is the first thing. I'm like, do you have attention to detail?F Geyrhalter:It's Catharine with an A, that's why we have this little joke here. For those listeners who might not know. What does branding mean to you? I mean, you only invest in brands. You invest in brands that go totally against the grain. Often they create an entire niche that doesn't exist anymore. They create a customer. They have to tell stories in ways that have never really been told before. And very often these startup brands actually have to completely reinvent themselves before they even launch because they need to be so different. What does that nasty word branding, which so often gets a bad rep, what does branding mean to you on a day-to-day basis as you work with these founders?Catharine:I'll give a great example of a brand that I fell in love with from day one. Recess. Just in the first... We had an hour conversation. He showed me the deck. He didn't have a can yet. He didn't have beverage or the product on hand. But the idea of Recess and taking a Recess and understanding that almost every American has that nostalgic feeling of being a child and running around the playground. I was in immediately. I was like, this makes 100% sense. And another example is I invested in a CBD health and wellness business called Plant People. And a plant person, could you have a stronger brand for your CBD health and wellness? Like it's absolutely genius. And people are now buying hats from them. They're buying totes. And it's like, that's just proving that the brand is strong when you're buying the apparel as well as the actual products for sale.F Geyrhalter:Totally. I had Michael Lastoria of &Pizza. It's the ampersand pizza brand. I had him on the podcast and it was so fascinating to hear when he suddenly realized that some of his employees literally, you know the guys that are at the cashier's desk and flipping the pizzas and putting the pies together. They started to actually tattoo the ampersand logo onto their skin. And not temporarily. Like literally he suddenly saw employees of his with his brand mark literally marked on them. And he started to realize that the ampersand means so much to his employees because they feel like they get a second chance. And for the first time they have a real job where it's really exciting and they have great benefits, and it's a team. And the ampersand stands for this is the beginning of something much bigger.F Geyrhalter:And I thought it was such a wonderful story because how a brand name, like in the two cases that you just gave, or a brand mark can actually really stand for so much for so many people. And it goes way outside what a brand thought it would do with it, which is super cool. If you would give, I would say D to C companies, because that's a lot of the companies, it seems, that you're in the space of investing. What is brand advice that you give them? It sounds like with names you really are drawn to brands that are smart, that have very intelligent intellectual forward thinking founders. And so the name is a representation of that.F Geyrhalter:And it sounds like you put a lot of weight to that, at least subliminally when you see it. And you're like, well this is really, really smart. But what is some advice that you would have for... I mean, I know you have tons of advice because you give advice 24/7, I guess, at two in the morning when a founder calls. But what are some of the big brand lessons that you feel like you learned or issues that you've seen that you would love to have other startup founders overcome easier?Catharine:Yes. The first thing that I would say, I mean, I've sat down with two of my founders and gone through this process. But it's to really understand who is buying or wagering on your site or platform. Because then you can change the branding ad to cater to your biggest customers. And I think that's a way to lock down your customers, attract their friends and become more of like a super sticky business just by changing the way that you're talking to the people who are using it. I think that's really important. [crosstalk 00:24:11] If that made any sense at all.F Geyrhalter:It makes lots of sense. How do they go about it? Right? I mean, especially if you have very early stage startups and you say, hey, you really got to figure out how your customer is. How do they then go about it? I mean, is it an email outreach to their client? Is it literally picking up the phone? How do you get to know them and then to understand them?Catharine:So I think it's a combination of all those things. The first step is always just go to through the data and start Googling people's names and see exactly who they are and what they do. And if there's a common thread between the top 100 people who use your product. And then it's also just getting on the phone with people and just being like, hey, I'm calling from XX, I would love to know how you like using our platform. We've seen you've used it for the past six months and recently you started using it less, why is that? Can I offer you 10% off or something? For your time. And I think talking to customers is really the best way to get feedback on what you're doing.F Geyrhalter:Right. So you have to establish the data in the beginning when you don't really have it yet, you just have to do it manually with a spreadsheet. Which is-Catharine:Yep, exactly.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, which is kind of nice, liberating to hear that that's how it's still done. What's next for Vice Ventures? What is exciting you in the next couple of months? Because I didn't want to look years because that's way too far ahead. In the next couple of [crosstalk 00:25:37] months.Catharine:Impossible. I mean, we're still heavily focused on harm reduction nicotine as a category, that honestly I'm trying to coin. But as I said, 90% of people fail to stop smoking or vaping, and I think Lucy is definitely going to be a clear winner. But I think there's also clear winners that just haven't been created yet. Or that I just haven't seen. And I think I'm very excited about that space. I'm also excited about cannabis brands in the longer term because I think that a lot of cannabis companies in California and throughout the country are raising absurd valuations. But I think a lot of them are going to run out of money and not going to be bailed out by a lot of their investors. So I think it will great deals to scoop up, if I may say that myself there. And then I'm also still fundraising. So I'm meeting super interesting people. I love fundraising. I think it's such a privilege to be able to do it.F Geyrhalter:Wow, that's shocking actually to hear. Because [crosstalk 00:26:42] most people hate it. Yeah.Catharine:I know. I don't know why, I think people just have the wrong attitude about it. You literally going to interview people to see if they want to invest in the fund. You get to decide if they can invest in the fund or not. And you get to learn all about them, because usually these people are wildly successful and most of the times [inaudible 00:27:03].F Geyrhalter:You know-Catharine:It's like the cool opportunity.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, it sounds like... And I mean, look, that's why someone like Marc Andreessen takes your calls. Because you have the [inaudible 00:27:18] you're actually excited about it. So listen, this is interesting about the CBD brands. I run a consultancy, we work with startups. We create clarity and focus with them early on, very much like what do you do in an advisory role. And during this entire hype with CBD companies I had so many inquiries of companies that wanted to work with me, and not a single one of them came through. They all end up being so stereotypically, sadly, like slackers or something comes up, things don't go right. It's just like, the contract never comes together. There's this whole stigma that I really didn't think would still exist. But do you see any of that too? Or do you have such a strict Catharine filter that those would never even make it up to your email list?Catharine:Like stigma for?F Geyrhalter:Just for [crosstalk 00:28:15]. Yeah, for the CBD industry. I have a really, really hard time finding CBD company founders that are super smart, that are on it, that are actually... I mean, there's maybe one out of 10 that contact me where I feel like, okay, they would actually be able to do this.Catharine:Yeah. I mean I also kind of have a thesis that the CBD companies that are going to win are the ones that already exist, just because it's getting so crowded. So I tend to not take meetings with CBD founders, to be honest, just because I think the fund is overexposed to CBD. But then also I think Plant People and Recess are the winners. Like pretty clearly. But I mean I'm clearly really biased.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, no, totally [crosstalk 00:29:06].Catharine:Yeah, I don't know. I've seen CBD subscription boxes, which I think are ridiculous. I've seen tons of CBD. But I agree that a lot of these operators aren't intellectually honest or just intelligent in general.F Geyrhalter:What are some of the most ridiculous Vice idea that came into your inbox in the last weeks?Catharine:Oh my God.F Geyrhalter:You're like, oh my God this is never going [crosstalk 00:29:37] to happen.Catharine:This is the craziest story. Sex dolls are being sold in Japan that self lubricate, and the hair grows. They need haircuts.F Geyrhalter:Oh my God. Oh my God.Catharine:And I was like-F Geyrhalter:I didn't just hear that. Crazy.Catharine:[crosstalk 00:29:56] And of course I took the phone call because I was like, I'm so curious. I have so many questions. I need to know. And it ended up being over an hour, which is very rare for me. Usually I always cut my calls off at 30 minutes. And I'm like, this is truly wild. Like so wild.F Geyrhalter:Wow. And clearly, clearly you invested.Catharine:Oh my God, I did not invest. I did not see an exit for it. But absolutely captivated.F Geyrhalter:Yeah, no, totally. And I mean, isn't that part of the job that's so exciting. That you just see what could be next and what people are thinking about. And I mean, yeah, I mean you must have such a good insight into the current zeitgeist just by getting all this stuff into your inbox.Catharine:Yeah. I mean, I was actually, I went out to dinner with my incredible lawyers last night. Who took me on as client at 25 years old. They're amazing. And we were talking about how some of my idols, I don't want to say names, but some of my idols in VC that I looked up to when I was working for Andy. Now, you know me, and they're like, hey Catharine, what do you think about this cannabis company? Or, what do you think about this audio porn business? And it just so surreal. And I always screenshot it and I sent it to my lawyer and I'm like, oh my God. So crazy.F Geyrhalter:That is so awesome. So awesome. Wait, I'm going to wait a little, there's an airplane coming by. We're in the temp store and sometimes that happens. You said that you're finally making the Vice Ventures brand a little bit more mature because so far you didn't have to do any of that. It's a one woman business. People know you. I mean you, it's not like you need to advertise, you get plenty of emails. How do you go about that new brand? And are you going to add people to your team? What is the future of your own brand?Catharine:Yeah, so my dream is to turn Vice Ventures into a multi-generational asset class. And I think for fund one, I would love to add somebody to it. I think that'll probably come in the next few weeks. I've already interviewed, I'd say probably 20 plus people. But that first hire, as any founder knows, is extremely important and incredibly difficult to do. Especially for a fund like Vice Ventures where, I mean, we get a lot of attention. Which is great. I mean, it's awesome. But it's that first hire has to be a true rock star.F Geyrhalter:Absolutely. Very cool.Catharine:Yeah.F Geyrhalter:How can people get in touch with you if they want to pitch you?Catharine:info@ViceVentures is the best way for sure.F Geyrhalter:Boom. Done. Easy does it.Catharine:Yeah, I check that. I am pretty religious about checking my emails. Yeah.F Geyrhalter:That's awesome. Yeah. If you take a one hour call with a sex doll manufacturer, potentially there's no risk for you not reading any emails. So that is super, super cool. Catharine, I love talking with you. I absolutely love where you're going with all of this. And I'm looking forward to following you on Instagram. Actually, what is your Instagram handle for everyone listening?Catharine:Catharine Dockery. C-A-T-H-A-R-I-N-E  D-O-C-K-E-R-Y.F Geyrhalter:Perfect Awesome. Yeah, because that's where people can get a good idea of who you are into and who you're investing in. And I think there's a lot of knowledge for people to gain from this. Catharine, thank you for your time. I know it's like we're going past half an hour and you just said you're not taking calls over half an hour. So here we go. I got to immediately finish this up. Thank you so much for your time and for your insights. We super appreciate it. It was great having you on.Catharine:Yeah. Perfect. Thank you so much for having me. I had a blast.F Geyrhalter:Absolutely.

Perfect Footprints - A way to Center This little episode starts with a poem to get us thinking of our best friend Then I'll show you a way to center that was taught to me in Master Practitioner classes way back when. It's the first part to really being present. Please share this podcast https://personaldevelopmentunplugged.com/perfect-footprints-a-way-to-center/ and let me know your thoughts by emailing me personally at feedback@personaldevelopmentunplugged.com Shine brightly Paul Please remember you can leave a comment or email me with questions, requests and feedback. If you have enjoyed this or any other episode please share and subscribe. Just email me feedback@personaldevelopmentunplugged.com Go to paulclough.co.uk/subscribe to learn more Or simply click here to go straight to Apple Music / iTunes to subscribe OR leave a review If you want to access my FREE HYPNOSIS tracks go to paulcloughonline.com/podcast Follow and inter-react on twitter @pcloughie Why not look for me and the podcast on SPOTIFY AND the app Castbox I'm also in iHeart radio YouTube - copy n paste UC3BlpN4voq8aAN7ePsIMt2Q into search bar The Libsyn podcast page http://personaldevelomentunplugged.libsyn.com Stitcher, tunein, learnoutloud, Google Play Music Here is your show on RadioPublic:

AN ELECTRIFYING DEBUT THRILLER FOR FANS OF APPLE TREE YARD AND ANATOMY OF A SCANDAL - INTRODUCING A STUNNING NEW VOICE IN PSYCHOLOGICAL SUSPENSE Alison has it all. A doting husband, adorable daughter, and a career on the rise - she's just been given her first murder case to defend. But all is never as it seems... Just one more night. Then I'll end it. Alison drinks too much. She's neglecting her family. And she's having an affair with a colleague whose taste for pushing boundaries may be more than she can handle. I did it. I killed him. I should be locked up. Alison's client doesn't deny that she stabbed her husband - she wants to plead guilty. And yet something about her story is deeply amiss. Saving this woman may be the first step to Alison saving herself. I'm watching you. I know what you're doing. But someone knows Alison's secrets. Someone who wants to make her pay for what she's done, and who won't stop until she's lost everything.... 'Shocking, addictive, dark domestic noir' SARAH PINBOROUGH 'Breathes new life into the domestic noir genre and grips until the final page' DAILY EXPRESS 'What a twist at the end!' LISA JEWELL

It was two years and two months after the wine country wildfires when I stopped by to see how Paradise Ridge Winery's rebuild was coming along. I had no idea it was the first day of their soft opening. In October of 2017 their hospitality center and production facility burned to the ground. I've come to know the Byck family fairly well over the years and I'm thrilled to see the return of Paradise. Owner and family member Rene and I sat down in January so he could catch us up on the challenges his family faced the past two years, the new building and some changes they have in mind.  Then I'll talk with Master of Wine Peter Neptune about the rich and centuries long tradition of Mardi Gras. You won't believe how many centuries! You'll also hear about the sparkling wine that was developed in southeastern France that ties into the historical roots of the celebration, Faire La Fête Brut. As you'll hear, sparkling wine was developed in the Limoux region, (no, not Champagne) making Faire La Fête the ideal sparkling for Mardi Gras celebrations. You gotta love a history lesson with a party theme.    

Whether it's polyamorous, interracial, queer or socialist, we all come out to our families eventually. Zibbity and Checkbox share their stories, while Naekwon figures out how to share his polyamorous lifestyle with his mother. "I think I'll tell my mom I'm poly first, THEN I'll tell her I'm a socialist." We crack a bunch of jokes on this one, y'all.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of the Paris Paysanne Podcast I'll be talking with two innovative people involved in the zero waste movement in the world of craft beer. First I'll speak with Franck Grossel, the founder of Instead Mobilier which builds “brewed” furniture made from spent grain. Then I'll talk to Elsa Raverdy of Brewsticks, a company that takes spent grain and turns it into tasty, zero waste snacks.

In this episode, I have a chat with an awesome client of mine, Richard, owner of STM FiT in Hamilton, New Zealand. Listen in to hear how he goes from old school methods of trying to get new clients, stressed, and completely spinning his wheels to implementing simple online marketing strategies and having exceptional growth. The growth he has experienced is phenomenal and completely changed his mindset from scarcity to complete growth-minded. We talk sales, marketing and customer experience that you can implement in your gym starting today. If you're a gym owner and you want results like Richard, go to www.iWantGymLeads.com and fill in the short application form there. Then I'll be in touch to talk about how we can do the exact same for you.

If you've been in this business long enough, you've probably heard someone say "it's guaranteed by the government." In today's Friday edition, I'll teach you how it's both true and false at the same time. Then I'll show you the way for you to guarantee everything yourself instead of relying on the government . . . all in less than four minutes. ⬇️ Helpful Resources ⬇️ Join The Tax Sale Academy here: http://TaxSaleAcademy.com/join State Guide: http://TaxSaleAcademy.com/state-guide Get your FREE copy of Tax Sale Playbook by going to: http://TaxSaleAcademy.com Listen to podcasts? Take us on the go at http://TaxSalePodcast.com ------------------------------ Let's Connect! http://CaseyDenman.com Connect on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/caseydenman/ Follow us on Facebook: http://Facebook.com/TheTaxSaleAcademy Follow Me on Instagram: http://Instagram.com/caseydenman

Greetings Spooky Adventurers! Alec was out of town this weekend so this episode is just me! But I talk about a local Arizona case that I have a small personal connection to. I don't go into a lot of the extra details because I make some announcements in the episode. I do lay the ground work for Melody Wolf's story. Most of the information I have is from local commentary (or gossip) and the police report.  It's a tragic case and no one has been brought to justice for her disappearance.   The big announcement for later this month..... I had the opportunity to be on These Are Their Stories (@lawandorder - Twitter)! It was an awesome time and hint... Lots of one liners! Check them out here http://www.lawandorderpodcast.com/ or where you listen to your podcasts! The other big announcement, I'm going to let you all hear on the episode. Then I'll talk about it via Twitter, Facebook, etc! :) I'm crazy and so excited! Thanks everyone! And keep spooky adventuring! Sam  

TL:DR: You need legal contract templates and disclaimers. Mariam did the work for you. Check out her store here. So you know you need a contract with most of your freelance clients. But you get tripped up when the client provides you with their contract.  I know you may be concerned about having to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars working with a business attorney to create a template you can use now and in the future. Here’s the good news. Just listen to this episode of the Advanced Freelancing podcast with my amazing guest. She has a background as a freelancer and as a practicing attorney.  And she has templates that are available for you to download and easily customize to your freelance business. But even if you're not yet ready to purchase the template, you're going to learn a lot from her about what to look for in contracts, what things can be negotiated, and what terms and contracts should never be taken out. No matter what, today's guest is Mariam Tsaturyan, a licensed and practicing attorney in the United States.  She also blogs full time.  And she realized that there was a real need for legal guidance for bloggers, freelancers, and entrepreneurs. Why Do Freelancers Even Need Contracts? Mariam loves helping out others to avoid mistakes, especially when it comes to legal matters because many people ignore just how important it is until it's too late. And she's created several products to help freelancers and entrepreneurs stay legally compliant. You can find information about her store in the show notes for this episode, which will be at betterbizacademy.com/podcast. Mariam goes into a great amount of detail into common mistakes that freelancers make with contracts, ones that you can't afford to make, and some of the other legally required materials you need to have if you're using a website. So that's important. It's often overlooked.  But you can bundle a lot of those templates in together to get website disclaimers and other relevant policies in addition to contract templates you can use again and again that are perfect for your freelance business. I hope you love this episode of the podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Advanced Freelancing podcast. This is probably one of the most requested topics. And something that I get the most questions about with the freelancers that I work with one on one.  It's also a sticking point for new freelancers who are just getting started and are either being provided contracts by their clients or get stuck on this whole idea of ”I don't have a contract I'm not making money yet should I pay an attorney to create one when I don't have any revenue.” So my guest today is Miriam and I am so excited to talk to her because she's got expertise in the freelance world and with contracts.  We're going to talk a little bit about what you should know about contracts and how to avoid some of the common pitfalls. How did Mariam’s shop come about? By profession, Mariam is an attorney. So she was just a regular practicing attorney initially. And then some family issues came up.  She has a son. And she had to make a decision to stay home and raise him. And they didn't have anybody helping them at that time.  So that is how the whole idea of starting the blog and starting the shop was created. She actually started as a freelancer. So what kind of freelance work were you doing when you first got started? Was it legal or something? She started off as a freelance writer and was doing legal freelance writing for other attorneys.  That was her way of making money initially as a way to contribute to the family finances since She was home now and she wasn't working anymore. This is so cool!  Because that's 99% of what I write for my clients and I very rarely come across anyone who has done legal writing for other attorneys. It is not an over-saturated niche, which is kind of good when you're doing it. But it's definitely not something that everybody wants to do. But she obviously has the perfect background to be speaking about contracts. She’s worn that hat as a freelancer and she’s an attorney. So this is something that just trips a lot of people up this whole idea of presenting contracts to a client or what to look for when a client gives you a contract that they want you to sign. Why do you think most people get confused over contracts with freelance work? Mariam says that this is true for any profession, not necessarily freelance writers. But for some reason when they hear the word contract, whether it's the person hiring you or it's the actual freelance writer, they get booked. She thinks they don't understand that the contract is there to protect both sides. When they hear contract, they think it's going to be favoring one side over the other. Whereas a good contract should be a balance of both. So she thinks that's where it's coming from because they think they're going to be at a disadvantage if there is a contract instead of looking at it as a positive thing that's gonna put everything in writing and clear terms so there's no misunderstanding later on. I think one of the other common misconceptions along with that is that most clients, at least in my experience, expect you to negotiate something if it's in the contract, and it's questionable. So you don't necessarily have to just sign the document as is. Do you think that there's any harm in asking for adjusting things inside the contract as an entrepreneur or freelancer? It's been my experience that if I see something that's unreasonable, I'll ask to have it taken out. And I don't think I've ever had an occasion where the client didn't take it out. I was curious to hear Mariam’s perspective. Mariam said not at all!  Contracts are all about negotiating and compromise. Mariam said that there are certain kinds of policies and rules that you just have to abide by if they're part of the law. But as far as the actual terms of the contract, what's expected of you what you have to do, what you want to do, and compensation deadlines, all of that these are things that should be negotiated between the parties.  There is no one size fits all approach. That's why when contracts are created, you can't just have one ready made contract and have the client sign because otherwise everybody would have the same exact agreement. There's always room for negotiation. And you should definitely negotiate, if something is unreasonable, or if it doesn't seem fair.  Always raise that issue with the client or the clients can raise that issue with you if it's in your agreement. Exactly. And I think that a lot of people feel like the contract has been presented, this is what I have to sign. These are what the terms are. But if you're working with a company as a freelancer, their legal team or their attorney for their business has probably drafted that contract for them. And of course, it's going to favor them as much as possible. But that doesn't mean those are the terms you have to agree to. And I really encourage freelancers to read between the lines on any contracts that are presented to them by clients.  Because there's a lot of things that could show up that you're agreeing to that you don't necessarily realize you're agreeing to at that point in time. Mariam said if you pay attention, generally any proper does have a clause in there that says this is the final agreement and it can only be changed or added to by the agreement of both parties. So the option is always there. If something's bothering you, if something's not sitting right with you, you can always raise the issue with the employer or the person who hired you. But of course, it's always a better idea to read everything very clearly and carefully before signing it.  Because it's a lot easier to change things before you sign them, rather than after the fact. Yes, that's totally true. And it’s also fine to ask if there's something where you're not sure exactly what it means.  When I signed my contract with my literary agent when we first started working together, there was one line in there that just the way the language was presented to me made it sound as though I was signing away from my life that any book I ever sold had to be sold to her.  And I was like, ”Is that what that saying?” And she said, “No, but let's change the language so that you're totally comfortable that we're only working together for this one book.” When I do major contracts or like when I did my contract with the publishing house, I paid an attorney to look over that, make edit requests and come up with some things that could potentially be negotiated.  Because sometimes we're in over our head.  Especially if you're with a big company that's a fortune 500 or something and you're coming on as a freelancer.  They might have a pretty extensive contract!  You want to make sure that you fully understand everything. So on that note, what are the key elements of a contract that are most important for freelance projects? I have a feeling it's probably deadline, pay revisions, and ownership of copyright. What are the other things that freelancers should be aware of when either creating their own contract to give to clients or signing a client's contract? One of the key sections of a freelancer agreement contract that Mariam always urge her clients to pay attention to is the services provided and the services not provided or not included section in the agreement. Specifically this last section, services not included, can get overlooked because a lot of people don't cover that. They just put down what kind of what services are going to be provided and that's that.  They forget to kind of go over the services that are not going to be provided. And one thing that Mariam has  noticed is when you talk about the services provided, many people tend to put down freelance writing or writing an article on blog topic for client.  They put it very generally.  There are no details or bullet point details as to what that articles entails. For example, how many words is it? What topic is it on? Does it require you to do sons social media work or any promotional work? Do you have to do any revisions on it? How many revisions do you have to do? These are details that are important needs to be stated explicitly in the services provided section. And then, at least to Mariam, she thinks what's more important is services not provided or not included in the agreement. Because when you don't mention something specifically, a client can keep asking you to do it even though you didn't agree to it beforehand. And especially if you're a beginner freelancer, and you haven't established yourself in the market yet, you might be willing to go along with anything at that point. But when you clearly state what’s not going to be included in the agreement, then you're very much limited your services and you're putting a price that. You are saying, ”If you want this, it is an additional negotiation or additional pay that we need to agree on beforehand.” Obviously, a deadline is very important. And deadlines needs to be very detailed also. So you need to take into account that the length for finishing the project and then the deadline for delivering the work. So if there are any revisions in place was the absolute last day that the client needs to have this work with them so everything can be ready for publication. You have to have in mind your own deadlines and you have to have in mind the client’s deadlines.  And make sure that you're leaving enough wiggle room in there not to get into trouble. This is one of those points that you need to negotiate with the client or the person who's hiring you very carefully because you don't want to go back to this client later and ask them for more time because you didn't prepare in advance.  And you don’t want the client to come to you and suddenly say,“Oh, now you don't have one week, you only have two days.” You want to make sure everything's there so that you're covered. Those are great points. And I feel like the contract is your final chance to make sure that you and the client are on the same page. Because this becomes your written document that you can refer back to when clients try to do things like expand the scope of the project beyond the terms that you agreed to.  It becomes the way beyond the verbal agreement when you can go back and say like, “Hey, if you go and check out page two of the contract we signed, we clarified that these blog pieces were 1000 words each, so an additional rate of blah, blah, blah, you know, 100 words will apply because you want me to make edits and make them 1500.” Clients sometimes forget too.  Especially if they're new to working with freelancers or if they have never worked with freelancers. So when you send over your contract, and that's what I'm taking away from what Mariam said, is to be as specific as possible when you send that over. That's their final chance to review it and say, “Yes, we're on the same page about all the details in this project. And if we're not, then let's read rework through the rates and come up with a new version.”  It becomes a lot harder for a client to argue that they were under the impression that you were going to provide something that you never were when you have that in writing. I love having things in writing, because kind of takes the pressure off of you and saying, “Well, hey, we talked on the phone that I was going to spend three hours on this project.” And if you have something like that in writing, it's a lot easier to just say, “Oh, per our conversation, per our contract.”  It gives you more of a ground to negotiate from. It gives you the ability to call them out if necessary because some clients, whether intentionally or not, they will take advantage of the fact that you didn't get specific enough. They may be like, “Well, you said you would do blog writing. And so I was thinking that was 16 blogs a month with unlimited revisions.” And it's like, “Well, you know, our contract doesn't really say anything beyond that.” So now, it weakens the whole relationship. Because from there, the client is upset and you're upset. It's very hard to repair that relationship. It's so much easier to just start off on the right foot and say, “These are the terms we both agree to it.” Another one that comes up a lot is this idea of an escape clause or a kill fee. This usually applies to bigger projects like a website designer building an entire website or a writer is working on a book or a really big piece. The whole idea behind it is, if the client decides not to do the project, for any reason, the freelancer is owed a certain amount of money, usually a flat fee or a percentage. What do you think about these kind of kill fees or escape clauses that allow clients to get out of contracts and what should freelancers know about those? Mariam said this kind of falls under the right to terminate. The person who hires you always has the right to terminate the project. However, if you've done any work for that project, doesn't matter whether you've completed the work or not, then you have to get compensated. Mariam thinks freelancers in general have to get in the right mindset. That's their business. They’re a  business owner, and any service that they provide should be compensated. You don't expect any brick and mortar business to provide you any free services. That never happens. So you have to protect your rights. You have to come to an agreement in advance when it comes to that. If a client decides not to go ahead with the project or if they decide to terminate it before you're finished with the project, you either have to have a flat fee that they have to pay you. Something like a deposit that the client gives you in advance for the work. This is up to you how you want to negotiate it with the client, how you decide to word your contract, and how you work. Some people decide to work on flat fees before the project starts based on a percentage.  For example, the client may have to give you a $200 deposit for this project. And if the project is terminated, you get to keep that. It's non refundable amount. And if it's not terminated, then it counts towards the total.  You can also work with a percentage.  You’ve acquired a certain amount, in advance, or even as you're working, if you can itemize basically the amount of work that you've done.  You would have to figure out the percentage of work that you've done and you need to be compensated, then you put that down. For example, like, “Okay, he's terminated this project, but at this point, I have completed 65% of this project, and 65% of this amount that we've agreed on. You need to compensate me for that.” Specifics will depend will be up to the individual freelancer as to how they decide to work. But there absolutely needs to be some kind of clause in their contracts, protecting them against such outcomes. I think for some of you listening who might not have ever seen something like that in the contract, you might be wondering, “Well, why would we have a clause in there about canceling the contract because my intention is to work with this client from the beginning of it until the completion? That's what I quoted for that's what I expected.” So what you're doing with these kinds of clauses is protecting yourself in the event that there are circumstances outside of your control or possibly even the clients control where you've done work on the project, but they are deciding to pull the plug on finishing that project for whatever reason. It means that you are not left out in the cold. I've also seen this used when people start working together and then they realize it's not really a good fit. It's a fee that the client ends up paying to say, “Hey, this isn't going to work out. But you know, we were essentially paying a canceling the contract early fee type of thing.” So of course, you don't want to cancel your contracts with your clients. But as Mariam mentioned, this helps to protect you if you spent 10 hours working on something for a client, and then they say, “Oh, well, we're not going to be able to finish this. Our business is closing or something has changed.” You can still be compensated for the work you've done. And that's probably a case where it makes a lot of sense to do milestones in the contract too. That's what I like to do with my clients if it's something big. It's like this amount of money is due at every phase.  Then I'll break down exactly what those phases are. If it's a book, when the first two chapters are turned in X amount of money is due within 14 days. And that helps you too!, If they were to suddenly cancel the project, you will at least get compensated for the work that you did. Now, another one that comes up a lot is late fees.  I feel like a lot of freelancers don't put in their contracts and it ends up costing them paying an administrative time later. It’s important to have a late fee for when the client has not paid their invoice on time.  What do you think about adding late fees and contracts as a as a freelancer? Whether you intend to use them by actually charging the client or as more of a leverage point and saying, “Hey, your invoices late.  It's been 14 days and for our contract, I'm going to charge you X percent.” Mariam is all for that. Her freelancer contracts all have late fees in them. And she thinks that's just good practice to have it. Because number one, as she already mentioned, it speaks of the fact that you're a business. You're a service provider and you take things very seriously. Number two, it serves as a deterrent. Whether you actually enforce this and charge late fees or not, it serves as a deterrent for the hiring party to not pay you in time. It's in their best interest to pay you in time because they know that you're going to keep adding late fees. And Mariam has learned this particular clause the hard way. She’s an attorney. She should have known better! But when she started out as a freelance writer, after she became a stay at home mom, she did not have this in her agreement. She had a very simple agreement because she figured they were all attorneys and there's no reason for her to have a very detailed contract. She thought they would respect each other. But that wasn't the case. And this late fee became a huge issue for one of her clients. And essentially, if she charged late fees, she would have been owed over $300 or more. But because that wasn't in her agreement, she never got compensated. So now late fee provision is an absolute must in every contract. I found that some clients like to give you the runaround. They’ll say, “Oh, well, it's in accounting.” And then you contact accounting and that person's out on vacation for three weeks. Then it ends up being like two months that you're chasing down a check. And especially if it's something like $500, it's a huge waste of your time to have to send multiple emails and make multiple calls. What I found with late fees is, even when it's a small amount, even if it's $25 or 15% of the total amount, people don't want to pay extra money. And so when you've exhausted all your other options, and you've contacted all the people, I like to send a reminder a couple of days after it was originally due.  If I gave them some amount of grace period to get things sorted out, I'll say, “Hey, by the way, in about three business days, I'm going to have to charge a late fee as per our contract. I'm sure this was just a misunderstanding and maybe my invoice got lost in another department. But I just want to give you guys a heads up.” And 9 times out of 10, your invoice gets paid because they don't want to pay the extra money. One thing Mariam tends to do with her contracts, when it comes to the fee provisions, whether it's the late fee, whether it's invoicing, or the amount that the client needs to pay you for the work done.  At the end of the contract, aside from having the actual signature lines, for these provisions, she puts a small line for initials. Because she wants to make sure that the client read these specific provisions in detail. And she wants to see their initials in front of it. So she doesn’t want them to come back later and be like, “Oh, yeah, I signed the contract. But I didn't actually see this provision that you had in there or I skipped over it or skimmed it. I didn't read it all the way.” She doesn't want to deal with that. So what she does is she has an initial place in the contract for them to initial specifically for the provisions that have to do with fees. So that way they could come to me and say, “I did read this.” I love that. And I do the same thing with a piece that I add in my contracts born out of a bad personal experience as well. I asked my clients to initial that they have read my writing samples and accepted that what they will receive will be substantially similar in tone and style. And that's the guard against those clients who go, “I just don't like it.” And they can't give you any more feedback than that. And it's like, if you hire me as a writer, I'm assuming that you have already reviewed my writing samples and you like my style. Otherwise you wouldn't hire me. But unfortunately, I had one client where that wasn't the case. And they just didn't like my writing style. So now I have that in there.  I ask clients to please initial here that they've reviewed the samples that I sent them. And then we're not going to be way off base. Obviously, it's going to be personalized to that client. But you’re going to see the same things like an Oxford comma, adverbs, and other things about how I write so you can't complain about it after the fact. So I love that and I love the idea of having them initial and call attention to it.  A lot of this goes back to protecting yourself. So when somebody says, “Oh, I didn't read that, Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, well, I thought you meant XYZ.” The contract is the gold standard to be able to go back to. Because above any conversation you've had or any misunderstanding to say, “Well, hey, our contract says that this project was $1,000. And you initial next to the late fee section, which is 15%. And so now we are 10 business days past it being due per the contract.” You have a lot more ground to stand on in that type of position when you have called it out and made them sign it. And again, remember that whatever clauses you put in your contracts, the client might try to negotiate those two. So be prepared for that. You're not going to have unreasonable clauses in your contract. But if you did, be prepared that the client might bring that up. Speaking of that, when it comes time for negotiation or compromise, there are certain clauses that no matter how much the client wants to negotiate for you to remove it from the agreement, you shouldn’t and a late fee is one of them. For example, you can negotiate on the amount of late fee that you're charging. Let's say you're charging $35. And the client says, “Let's make this $25.” That's reasonable. But if the client says, “Remove the late fee provision from the agreement.” To Mariam, that's a red flag. She would not do that. Because that plans right off the path is telling you that they're going to be late. She wouldn’t want to deal with that. And that's a really good point. What other clauses would you say are in a contract that should stay in no matter what even if you negotiate the finer details? Mariam said intellectual property and ownership of intellectual property or copyrights/trademark depending what you do as a freelancer.  And since you are a freelancer, your work is yours. You own the intellectual property. And you own the copyright on the trademark.  There's only very limited situations where if you do something and it can be considered a work for hire when the employer or the hiring party would own the copyrights to that. But it's very rare. There are a whole bunch of requirements that you have to satisfy before you can be considered a work for hire freelancer. Therefore, a lot of the time you own your work. And if the client wants to own the copyright, if the client wants to have exclusive rights, and be the owner of copyright, be the owner of trademark, then that's an additional term that you have to have in your contract. You have to make it very clear to the hiring person and say, “Hey, I own this!” For example, they had you write a piece or they had you design a website or whatever it is that you're doing as a freelancer. You own the copyright to that.  And you sell them an exclusive license to use it.  You're not going to sell that same thing to another person. And it won't be ethical either since the client paid you for that. But you own the intellectual property to that work. And if the client wants to own the intellectual property, whether it's copyright or trademark, then you have to make room in your contract for additional compensation so the client cannot own the IP for the same amount of price that they're paying you to get the work done. Let's say you wrote a $2,000 blog post, or you wrote a book for them, or whatever you did for them. And they paid you let's say, $2,000 or $3,000.  There's no way that the client will own the intellectual property to that work for that same amount. So there has to be some form of additional compensation if the client wants to own the intellectual property as well. That's a really interesting point because I had not thought about it in that way. It's not automatic.  And 99% of what I do is ghostwriting work. And we have it listed in the contracts that the copyright goes to the client. And the rate includes that. Where I see a lot of people getting tripped up with that is, let's say you do have that clause in there where they're being paid because they're going to own the intellectual copyright. One thing you want to clear up with your clients is whether or not you still have permission to share that as a work sample. I think that comes up a lot with ghostwriters where companies don't really want to divulge that they're working with somebody else to write their content. That it's not their CEO or their marketing manager. And you don't want to be directing other potential clients to that work saying, “Oh, hey, I wrote so and so's website or I wrote that book for somebody.” if you don't have permission to share that as a work sample. So I've seen some contracts specifically with book ghostwriters as well where it will say that your name is not going to be on the front of the book because you're the ghost writer. But if you are in the negotiation phase with another potential ghostwriting client, and they're looking for references, that person is willing to receive a phone call and say that they worked with you. In some cases, you're allowed to share part of the manuscript for what you worked on. But that's something you want to clarify for sure. In this particular case of ghostwriting falls under a different category when it comes to rights and intellectual property and ownership. Because ghostwriting, the theory behind it is that the client pays you.  Ghostwriters get paid higher than regular freelancers because the amount of money that they get for that project kind of includes the ownership of the intellectual property. The whole idea behind it is you write it, but to the outside world, it's as if I wrote this piece which means they own the rights This is one of those situations where you do have to put your negotiator hat on and try to come to an agreement with the client. Because when you do go throughit, the client is completely within their rights to not agree to let you share the piece that you've worked on. Whether it's a book, whether it's an article,  or whatever it is, because it's a ghost written project. When you're ghostwriting, you have to be a little more understanding as a freelancer of the client because they're pretending to the outside world that it's their piece. And if they don't want you to be able to showcase that, then that's within their rights. But obviously there are ways of approaching that.  Maybe you can make some concessions. You can say, “I'm not going to reveal a name. I'm not going to reveal a company. Can I just show like a small section of this work without disclosing who it's from?”  From Mariam’s experience, some are willing to do that. Some are willing to let you showcase it as a work product or a sample of your a piece of your portfolio for later projects. But at the same time, a lot of them aren't willing to do that. And unfortunately, there's not much that can be done with that. That's a really good point and important distinctions to consider all with relation to intellectual property and what you can share and what the differences are with ghostwriting versus other types of freelancing. So I know Mariam has quite a few templates. I know she has an online store with different contracts. I asked if she would mind walking through some of these different templates that might be applicable to freelancers. Because I know it's not just contracts. A lot of us have websites. And I know she’s got some of the important and legally required things that we need to have on our websites and other marketing locations. To begin with the simplest of things, if you have a website, Mariam said you have to have a privacy policy, that's non negotiable. And with the current laws, your privacy policy must be GDPR compliant. And now your privacy policy has to be CCPA compliant.  That’s California Consumer Privacy Act. If you have any kind of monetization going on your site like ads or if you have affiliate relationships with different companies or even people, then you want to have a disclaimer. If you're a freelance writer, for example, you still want to have a disclaimer because you want to make some kind of disclaimer in there that these are work products.  These are your work samples. You cannot make any guarantees. And especially in a situation if you have testimony on your site, let's say you're a freelancer who has a portfolio and then you maybe have some testimony by a few satisfied clients who said that they loved your work, or you were the best writer they hired. So you want to have some kind of on time warranty or anti guarantee clause in there and your disclaimer policy that says that it's not guaranteed that they will get the same absolute results as the other people who gave you testimonies. Each person's satisfaction is dependent on different factors. A lot of freelancers fail to have this. A lot of professionals fail to have this kind of disclaimer in there. It's essential because of course then they can come and say, “This person was saying that they took this online course from you, or they read this ebook that you made for them. They followed the steps and they were able to make $5,000 in three months. And your course was saying make $5,000 in a short period of time. Well, it's been four months, and I still didn't even make thousand dollars.” I mean, it's not very often but it's a possible scenario where somebody could come after you for something like that. So you want to have a disclaimer somewhere in there where you talk about results may vary and  you can't make any guarantees.  You want to talk about all the different circumstances and situations. So Terms of Use is not mandatory by law, but it is highly recommended. Especially if you have any kind of products that you're offering. Service would be considered the product. It's a service, but it's still a product. If you have actual things that you're selling digital items, ebook templates for printables like designs, or anything like that, you want to have Terms of Use where you state your intellectual property rights. Where you specifically state how others will use your services and more importantly, how they're not allowed to use your services. So those three policies are kind of a staple bundle policy that every website owner should have. Obviously, they're going to differ. You're going to customize it based on your needs, but those three things you should have on your site as a freelancer. Obviously there's a freelancer legal agreements, the writer agreement, designer agreement, which is all dependent on what you do. This is the more official contracts that we kind of talked about throughout this interview the different clauses that are included sections and all of that. There's also something called letter of agreement for freelancers. This is a lot simpler. And this is a lot less official looking. Iit literally looks like a letter. And the idea behind it is the people or the clients who are spooked by the idea of signing a formal contract, this is for them. Because it still lays out the important terms that you're supposed to have or pay attention to, but it's not in as much detail. Mariam wouldn't recommend a letter of agreement with somebody that you've never worked with before, if it's somebody who doesn't have a very good reputation, or you don't know anything about them.  If that’s the case she would always try to get them to sign an actual law contract instead of this. But if this is your last resort, the letter of agreement is a good, good way to go if the client doesn't want to sign anything. Yeah, that's all really important. I feel like thinking about some of these other policies that you might want to have, even if you're at the beginning of your freelance career, is important. Because there's a good chance that at some point in the future, you're going to include testimonials on your site. I'm even thinking about when you expand into other things like books and courses,and you're selling other things., It's something I recommend to my freelancers. Get that social proof as soon as you can. But the flip side of that is you have to protect yourself from people who would attempt to use that social proof against you. And so just knowing that you've got all the necessary policies out there and that you've got a solid contract template is super important. Where can everyone go to learn a little bit more about you? And what you do? Mariam’s website is freelanceandmarketing.com. And once you're there if you're looking for contracts, you'll see a tab that says “Legal Shop.” She provides legal audits to people who want to make sure that their websites are properly set up or if they're being compliant with a certain policy or if they just want me to audit their contracts. There's an About section where you can learn a little bit about Mariam.  One thing Mariam wanted to mention is that she’s putting together an entire bundle for different categories of people like entrepreneurs.  It wasn’t ready at the time of this interview, but she was working on it.  And she was working on an entire bundle for freelancers. It will include all the different policies that freelancers need. It will not necessarily be for a beginner freelancer, because a beginner freelancer pretty much just needs the legal agreements to start with. But as you progress, you might want to hire somebody to help you. Because you're a business owner, and you yourself might hire people out for different projects that you get. So, the freelancer bundle is going to have a whole bunch of different agreements, policies, helpful videos, and all of that in there for you to begin with. Basically a bundle that you can get to start your freelancer business the right way and it's coming up. It's not there yet, but hopefully by the time this episode is published, it will be available. Having looked at Mariam’s store, she has a great variety of things to help freelancers get started. I know some of you are listening and going, she's an attorney. That means I'm paying hundreds of dollars. I have to contact a business attorney and they're going to charge me $200 or $300 an hour. Mariam’s contracts and templates and policies are very, very reasonably priced. So this is perfect for the beginner, intermediate, and advanced freelancer. I know that this is definitely a hot ticket item that I am happy to refer people because I get that question all the time. So it'll be great to finally have a resource to direct people to. But I just want to thank Mariam so much for coming on the show and providing all of this amazing expertise on what to know about contracts. Mariam Tsaturyan is a licensed and practicing attorney in the United States, who also blogs full-time. Mariam realized that there was a real need for legal guidance for bloggers, freelancers, & entrepreneurs. She enjoys helping out others, especially when it comes to legal matters because many people ignore just how important it is until it's too late. For this reason, she created several products to help freelancers and entrepreneurs stay legally compliant. Want to grab Mariam’s Awesome Templates? Click here. Affiliate disclaimer: If you click on the link above, I’ll receive a small commission for referring you. Thanks for tuning in for another episode of the advanced freelancing podcast. For more freelance advice, get a copy of my book Start Your Own Freelance Writing Business—available now! Buy it from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, and more

  YouTube is a great way to make money, but only if done right. You don't want to waste your time making videos that don't work out at all, so Nate tells you the best ways to monetize your channel.   How do you make money on YouTube fast? Well, I've done it the slow way and I've done it a fast way. One of my channels I went from zero income to $100,000 in a month just in 6 months time frame. So, in this video, I'm going to break it down how you can make money on YouTube a lot faster. So, I want to share with you a story of a channel that I've produced that is it definitely has made money fast. I mean right now, it's making between 5 and 6 hundred thousand dollars per month. And just 2 and a half years ago, we are almost making zero. And then after I share that story, I'm going to share with you the 4 ingredient formula to exactly how we got that growth so that you can implement that yourself. When we started the Kris Krohn channel, we were doing one episode per week. We did that for 2 and a half years and it wasn't exactly one episode per week. It's actually a little less because Kris took the summer off one time and... Any way, that most we're doing one episode per week. But because we did it for an extended amount of time, we did grow the channel from zero up to 12,000 subscribers. And we are starting to get leads coming in. Meaning, people were commenting and saying, "Hey, how can I work with you? Do you offer coaching?" or "Hey, how can you can you help me buy real estate?" All types of questions like that and Kris not have anything to sell, but we knew that we had an audience and a following that was hungry for something. At the time, Kris was putting on local events and his hope was that people from around the country would travel to Utah and attend his local events. His events were great. He he puts on three-day events and by the end of the event, people are so excited and they've gotten to know him so well that they want to hire him for more. And that's how he ran his business. Well on YouTube, where we had a great successful start to the channel and we had interest coming in, we weren't monetizing at that point. We weren't really able to make any sales. So, Kris started working on creating a course and at the same time we decided to launch 5 episodes a week instead of just one, okay? So, we kind of made 2 changes here. We're going to be more aggressive with our launch schedule because we knew we'd have more exponential growth after that four-month mark and he started working on the course. We'd have a better way of monetizing the channel. And we had brought in a few hundred dollars in a month from ad revenue and we had a person or 2 over the previous year come to events. But not like we should have had, right? Well fast-forward 6 months, we did have a spike on the channel because of our increased frequency. We had grown the channel up to about 65,000 subscribers. And Kris launched his course. This is going back first of October of 2017. And in that month, over $100,000 of sales. And so, that's cool. That was a pivotal point for us where we recognized, "Okay, this really is something. This isn't just theory anymore. This isn't just hypothetical." Now, this is real. The lesson that we learned there is the audience that we had built, they weren't willing to travel to Utah to attend his events. But they were very willing to buy a digital course. Here's something interesting. Fast-forward 2 years later, today, now Kris does fill his events. He recently put on an event just a couple of weeks ago and the number is either 250 or 350 people. I don't remember which. But he said the majority of the people in attendance there were from outside of Utah. They had come because being fans of his on YouTube. So, with a smaller audience, he wasn't able to pull enough people in. Now, that he's got a lot more momentum on the channel, we are approaching a half million subscribers on the channel if that kind of gives you a perspective. But with this big of a channel, now it does fill his events. There are a lot of ways that you can monetize your YouTube channel. A slow way is through filling events. A slow way is through ad revenue. A slow way might be through affiliate marketing. There might be a faster way. I would say the fastest way to make the most amount of money is through creating a digital course. Now, I've seen that many times now since we had that experience with Kris Krohn's channel. So, that's what I definitely recommend is the fastest way you can monetize your channel have something to sell. Have a product or a course and digital courses sell really well to a YouTube audience. Okay, put your seat belt on because now I'm going to share the 4 ingredients to get a spike after 4 months. Okay, that first ingredient is keyword research before filming. Before filming is so important. If you do keyword research after filming, it just doesn't work. But if you do keyword research first, you find the questions that people are asking and that's the title of your video; that's what your content of that 10 or 12 minute episode is based around, okay? So, I've actually given away the second ingredient. The second ingredient is you want your videos to be 10 or 12 minutes in length. That's the default. Some videos are going to go longer. Some videos are going to go shorter. But let's shoot for an average of 10 or 12 minutes. You'll thank me later as monk says. 10 or 12 minutes is the sweet spot of getting good average view duration on YouTube. So, is that easy? Is that hard? Well, if you're an influencer, say you're a coach or a speaker, you really know your content. So, if you start with the keyword research, you find the question that people are asking, I want you to go in-depth. I want you to share all your secrets. And to do that in 10 minutes, sometimes that's actually pretty hard. You want to keep it tight. You want to keep people's energy going. And if you're going for 12 minutes, maybe you said some Ah's and um's. Maybe your restate it's something. I've done that in this episode. My team edits it out. So, you'll end up with a 10-minute episode. If you get 7 minutes into an episode and you find, "You know what? I really don't have anything more to say. We don't want it to drag on. People are going to leave once you're done with the good content anyway. So, go ahead and end that episode at seven minutes. But by default, yeah, shoot for the 10 or 12. The third ingredient may surprise you. You want to post 5 or more episodes per week. So, how do you do that if you're a business owner or if you've got a busy schedule? When my clients come to Utah, we film 20 episodes in a single day. And posting 5 episodes a week, that gives us four weeks worth of content. So, we found a systematic way to film in bulk so that we can be a lot more efficient with our time. You know, whether you do that exact approach or not, I do recommend filming in batches or filming in bulk. So that you can be more efficient. Whatever way you work it out, 5 episodes a day. For some reason, the YouTube algorithm really likes that level of consistency or more. And when you do that and you have the fourth ingredient that so I'm going to tell you about in a minute, then at that 4 month mark, you're going to have a spike. So, for the first 4 months, you're posting, posting 5 episodes a week. It's a lot of work and it's kind of weird because you don't have a lot of activity. Meaning you're not getting a lot of views. You're not getting a huge surge of subscribers. It's just growing bit by bit. But then on that 4 month mark, YouTube really starts to promote you and you experience what we call a spike. So you'll get... You might go from 500 views in a day, channel wide to 10,000 views in a day. And you think, "Wow! This is amazing." A few weeks later, you get 30,000 views in a day. "Wow, this is more amazing." So, that's what I mean by spikes. And it happens with these four ingredients. So, I've shared with you 3. Keyword research before filming, you've got 10 or 12 minutes per episode, 5 episodes per week. And that fourth ingredient is you want your average view duration to be 45%. If it's a 10-minute episode, you've got a retention rate of 45%, you're going to have an average iteration of 4 and a half minutes. That's the minimum. I love to try and shoot for 6, 6 and a half, 7 minutes of average watch time or average view duration. If you're posting videos to YouTube and they're getting a good click-through rate, you know, you're following these other steps through 10 to 12 minutes in length but you're only getting a minute or a minute a half or 2 minutes of retention rate or average view duration, you're probably not going to experience a spike at that 4 month mark. And that's painful because you're you're working a lot to make all of these episodes. The great thing is is that YouTube analytics will tell all this to you. The analytics will tell you which videos have a higher retention rate or have a higher average view duration. And you can compare it to those that are performing less. So, dive in. Follow the first 3 ingredients and then study the analytics to see "Am i keeping people's attention?" And you know, just as a bonus tip. Some things that you can do to increase average view duration is in the beginning of your episode, let people know why they're here. Like, "In this video, I'm going to teach you ABC." All right, now they know they're in the right place. And then summarize what's coming up in the video. You know, "First, I'm going to answer that question then I'm going to share a story of how this applied. And then I'm going to teach you the 3 steps of how you can make it really effective in your business." Then I'll give you some concluding advice at the end that will really help you understand the whole picture. So, just by summarizing what people are going to expect and getting experience in your video, you'll get people that will watch the whole video or watch it a lot longer. One other side piece of advice is when you do the keyword research before filming, people are finding what they're searching for. And those people are much more likely to watch the whole video and so that will give you a higher average view duration. Now, there's another video that I made that I recommend you watch now. It's my leaf strategy video. And that's all about how to do this keyword research for filming. You'll know, how to find the questions that people are searching for so head over there now and check that video.

Ever wonder how the best companies gear up for their busy season? Concerned about how to keep your staff safe when production demands rise? Can your hiring practices keep pace with the demand for employees? Deb Roy, President of SafeTech Consultants and recently retired Corporate Director of Health, Safety & Wellness at L.L.Bean, offers solutions to seasonal workforce challenges so the increased demands don’t upset the balance of safety, quality and productivity. Pete Koch: Hello, listeners, and welcome to the Safety Experts podcast. Ever wonder how companies gear up for their busy season? Concerned about how to keep your staff safe when production demands rise? Can your hiring practices keep pace with the demand for employees? Well, today we're going to dig deeper into seasonal workforce challenges. So, the Safety Experts podcast is presented by MEMIC, a leading worker's compensation provider based here on the East Coast. A new episode of the podcast drops every two weeks featuring interviews with leaders in the field, top executives, MEMIC staff, and other industry experts discussing how safety applies to every aspect of our lives. I'm your host, Peter Koch. And for the past 17 years, I've been working for MEMIC as a safety expert within the hospitality and construction industries. What I realized is safety impacts every part of each position that we have or tasks that we do, no matter what the season demands of you. And for today's episode, Seasonal Workforce Challenges and Solutions. I'm going to speak with Deborah Roy, president of SafeTech Consultants Inc. and recently retired Corporate Director of Health, Safety and Wellness for L.L. Bean Inc. we're hopefully better understand some of those challenges and how gearing up for the increased demands affect the employee performance management process at your company. Deborah is currently the president of SafeTech Consultants, and for the past 12 years, she was the Corporate Director of Health and Safety and wellness for L.L. Bean. She received her Master of Public Health Degree in Occupational Health and safety from the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. Mr. Always been an active member of the American Society for Safety Professionals since 1993 and is a frequent speaker at ASSP conferences and webinars. She was inducted as an ASSP fellow in 2018 and is currently the president elect of ASSP. Deborah, welcome to the podcast. Deborah Roy: Thank you. Pete Koch: Fantastic. So, we're gonna jump right into it and we're coming right into the season where businesses are starting to pick up, especially as we get into the are closer to Thanksgiving. We've got retail businesses picking up hopefully, and we have hospitality businesses picking up. Our vacation season for the wintertime here on the East Coast is picking up. People are leaving winter and going for summer places. So, businesses need to hire more people in our seasonal workforce will end up growing. So, we are thinking about how we bring our people in to our businesses, our onboarding tactics could change during those peak season demands. So, let's talk a little bit about your experience at L.L. Bean. And there's some large fluctuations that occur over the seasons there at L.L. Bean, especially during the holidays or leading up to the holidays. How does the onboarding process accommodate the influx of the new or returning workers and still balance that safety, quality and productivity triangle? Deborah Roy: That's a great question. This is one of our biggest challenges is to actually hire enough people for what we call our peak season. Pete Koch: Sure. Deborah Roy: Which is really leading up to Christmas time. And we have a process in place for all of our higher risk jobs. That is year-round and so we apply that same process to this seasonal population. We can hire several thousand people at this time of the year. Each one of them actually is evaluated from a health status standpoint. And the way we do that is we prioritize the jobs based on risk. So, for example, if you're going to work in the call center for our peak season and all of those workstations are ergonomically designed, and from the standpoint of the seasonal employees, their risk is relatively low. We can just do a health history; which we do as an online form that they complete. And one of our nurses can actually review that form and evaluate is there any risk based on the specifics of that job? If so, they'll contact that individual, get further information and then do a follow up in person if needed. Pete Koch: Oh, sure. Deborah Roy: So, for the low risk jobs, that's pretty easy for the higher risk ones like working in the warehouse. It takes a little bit more. So those individuals will fill out the same form, but they'll also have an assessment by a registered nurse who understands the jobs and can assess those individuals based on the job. From there. If that individual is then a good fit for the job, they've already been given a conditional offer of employment and then they can be hired for that season. If the job is even more strenuous, like a material handler, we have different categories or levels that we use for those jobs. And it's all based on the job physical demands. So, each one of these jobs has a Job Physical Demands document based on those demands. We have dynamic strength tests that can be done for those jobs. So, once they pass the post offer exam, if they're in one of those higher risk jobs like a material handler, they would then do a dynamic strength test that's match specifically to the tasks on the job. That dynamic strength test is done by a certified athletic trainer or physical therapist onsite, and they would then be sure that that person can do the tasks. So, for those higher risk jobs, it doesn't matter if those individuals are a seasonal employee or a year-round employee, they would still go through that same process. And depending on whether somebody is a rehire or if they come back every year, we may have enough history on that individual to know that they've safely worked in that job. And we use different criteria depending on how long they've done that job and whether or not they've been injured. So, we also on rehire hires, go back and look at our history and say, were they injured in this job in a previous year? So, we have enough data to be able to match up people to make sure they're safe in those jobs, even if they're seasonal. Pete Koch: Yeah, there's a lot of systems that are in place there year-round. Deborah Roy: Yes. Pete Koch: That you're able to expand or contract based on the demand of the number of employees. But the basic systems stay the same all the time. Deborah Roy: Right. Pete Koch:  It's not always the same case in many places. Many places will ramp up their process or put some different things in place or maybe even try to have the same systems that aren't robust enough to manage those peak demands for hiring. Deborah Roy: Right. Pete Koch: So, in order to start the process, like what's the essential tool in order to have any of that process work, what's the essential tool that a company needs to have in place to make those systems work? Deborah Roy: And I think that's a great question. And this is probably the hardest part is actually having someone who's qualified assess the jobs upfront. So really doing the job, physical demands. Some companies actually do that, but they attach it to the actual job description. So, it's part of the job description. In our case, it's always been a separate process just because of our systems. But that job physical demands document is critical as the basis of what we can show the employee or applicant is the job and what the job demands. But also, if you're going to develop a dynamic strength test or have nurses who are going to do assessments, you really need to know what the demands of the job are. So, for example, you need to know how much lifting someone has to do. How many times an hour? What weight? What positions the individuals are in. Do they have to do a lot of bending or reaching? And hopefully the jobs have already been evaluated so that they're safe jobs to begin with from an ergonomic standpoint. And then this is just the documentation of that. So, once you have that basis, everything else just flows from that document. And it's no different than when you bring somebody back to work after they've been out for surgery or some other health issue. Having a job physical demands document means that whoever was treating that individual, that physician, can actually look at that document and say yes or no to does this person come back to work. Pete Koch: And have it really detailed instead of going on what they think is the job demand. Deborah Roy: Right. Pete Koch: Which we find often. Deborah Roy: That's probably the biggest challenge is I think the medical community in general makes assumptions as to what a job is based on the title or what the employee might tell them. The fact is that having something that is sort of not subjective and very specific to the tasks of the job is helpful all around. Pete Koch: Yeah. Very, very helpful. Very helpful for the supervisor. Help for the employee. Helpful for post-accident analysis. One of the things that you said in there, which I thought needs to be expressed a little more, is the essential belief that the job specific physical requirements that you have are based on a job that you've already evaluated and that you've made some corrections or adjustments to make it safe in the first place. Right. So, I think that's where some companies get a little lost in that assessment process where they might not have already done an assessment, looked at the job. What are the risks? How do we manage it? How do we make that job safe for the individual to take the job? And they might do a great physical evaluation, but the physical demands might be way above what your average person might be able to manage. Deborah Roy: Right. And that's a huge issue in most of the country right now. But particularly in Maine, we have an older workforce and in the company. We have an older workforce because we're in Maine. And so consequently, that can be an issue with some of the really high demand jobs. If you have a job there that requires either, you know, lifting more than 30 pounds or lifting frequently or reaching beyond a natural reach, all of those things have injury potential. Pete Koch: Sure. So those are all critical pieces. And then from that evaluation, moving to the assessment of the documentation of what those demands are. So those are separate in L.L. Bean place from the job description. Deborah Roy: Right. Pete Koch: So, you touched on that a little bit. What is the benefit of having them separated? Deborah Roy: In our case, it was purely the way our systems were set up Pete Koch: OK Deborah Roy: But we do have a set process that we use for that documentation. I don't think it matters one way or the other where that lives. It's an issue of having more than a one line that says, you know, this job requires, you know, bending, reaching and lifting, which I have seen on job descriptions before. So, I think it's really just having the specificity and the factual information about the job. And as I said and you mentioned as well, the idea is the jobs have been evaluated upfront and you've already done the risk assessment on the job and you've corrected what you can correct. Then you're producing this document and that's what the individual is then measured to. Pete Koch: So, you're trying to evaluate the person to their ability to do the job and then making accommodations as you can. I'm sure. Deborah Roy: Exactly. So, with the Americans with Disabilities Act, you still are going to need to accommodate people along the way, either regular employees throughout the year or seasonal employees. And so, the idea is if you have that documentation, you then know what you can accommodate or not. Some jobs really allow for a lot more accommodation than people realize. And it's just having somebody who is qualified to look at that task and say, yes, that's reasonable to be able to do that. And every company has to decide what's reasonable for them given their circumstances it's really going to vary. Pete Koch: The person who would look at the physical demands of the job and evaluate those physical demands, someone from outside the company, what kind of qualifications might they need to have to actually do that physical assessment or would it be someone from inside the company that might do that? Deborah Roy: It can be either or. And it really depends on the type of jobs and how complex they are. Pete Koch: True. Deborah Roy: Oftentimes, you know, a certified safety professional can look at those jobs. We also have used a certified athletic trainer, physical therapists, occupational health nurses who are board certified people that actually work in this industry and understand job processes really are perfectly appropriate to do that. And I don't think it makes any difference whether they're inside or outside. It just is an issue of do they know the jobs, and have they observed the jobs. And depending on the size of the company, you may or may not have that expertise in-house. Pete Koch: That makes a lot of sense. But the basic qualifications, regardless of certification as they need to understand the job and the physical effects of the job on the person. Deborah Roy: That's right. Pete Koch: Whether it be cycle time or lifting or any of that. Deborah Roy: Right. Pete Koch: Fantastic. So essentially from an onboarding process foundation. Systems are critical, whether you're hiring consistently across the year or whether you're ramping up for peak demands. Deborah Roy: Yes. Pete Koch: So, having those robust systems that you can expand to meet the demand of more workers are pretty, pretty crucial. Deborah Roy: And the way we do that is we actually use seasonal staff. So, from an employment standpoint, we actually bring in seasonal interviewers from other parts of our business. It's a temporary role that they do for the season. We do exactly the same thing for the nurses. So, I have two nurses that are occupational health nurses who are retired from being who come back as what we call alumni. And they actually are job sharing the lead for this. The post offer exams they then manage are our RNs that we hire, many of which come back year after year after year, so they're trained. We have a training session every year on the new jobs and any changes that we have in the process. But oftentimes they're pretty experienced because they've been with us for a long time. So, when you have a large business like this, when you've got to hire thousands of people, you've got to ramp up your staffing even to do that. And you can do that on a seasonal basis. Pete Koch: Yeah, that's an interesting take on that, because you always think, well, I have to do it with my human resources or you shift that from human resources to the department manager that takes away from their opportunity to manage the people that they already have there or to plan for the increase in productivity that they're going to have. So bringing on additional interviewers, like you said, whether it's the pre hire process or the post offer process is a fantastic idea. But making sure they're trained. Deborah Roy: Yes. Pete Koch: That's a key part. Deborah Roy: Exactly. Pete Koch: All right. So, let's bring those employees into the workforce now. So, we've got them hired. We've got a whole bunch of people now that are either new to the business or might be their second season or third season or in some cases, they might be back for five, 10 or 15 seasons. How important is it to monitor performance for those seasonal employees that are only going to be there for a few months, maybe a few weeks, even depending on how the peak demand goes? How important is it to monitor and manage performance and give them feedback? Deborah Roy: It's really important. And, you know, one of the biggest challenges is oftentimes for businesses that ramp up for a peak like this. Trying to have a leader manage a lot more people is very challenging. And so even knowing who those employees are and being able to monitor all those employees is an issue. What we do to supplement that is we have an onsite health clinic with certified athletic trainers and physical therapists. And part of their role in not just treating employees who are injured after the fact, but proactively we look at as we have new employees come in that are seasonal, as they go through their class to learn the job and to do all of the traditional onboarding that's necessary. And then we have lists of those individuals and our PTs and ATCs actually then go out on the floor to evaluate those individuals. And so, we have a regular schedule that they go out in and observe people doing the work because we have trainers on the floor that teach people how to do the jobs. Obviously, the advantage with a seasonal workforce is that if you can simplify the jobs, it's easier for them to learn. And there's less opportunity for risk. But it's really important to give people feedback. And if the leaders are stretched in terms of the number of people, they have reporting to them, you really have to have supplemental assistance to be able to do this. Some companies use just trainers on the floor who actually monitor what's going on in this case. We do some of that, but we also have these qualified individuals who are looking at body mechanics and ergonomics. And we found we piloted this last year for peak and it worked phenomenally well. And so, we're doing it again this year. We started that process already for peak. And it's going great. And what that means is that, that reduces the number of people that get injured on the other end because they now have. That one on one assistance. We did something similar during our peaks in manufacturing, which is a different time of year, previously when we were hiring a lot of people and actually doing regular check ins with those individuals and observing them. And that's where we got the idea to try this during peak. Pete Koch: That's a fantastic idea. So, you actually split the maybe not split is the right word, but you took the biomechanical the ergonomic evaluation. Not so much off the supervisor’s plate, but you allowed them to then look at more of the productivity and the quality side of it. Deborah Roy: Right. Pete Koch: Put an expert in place to look to see if the people were actually following the instructions that they were given. That's pretty interesting because there are those resources. They might not be a PT or an AT at a particular company or you might not have the resources to hire, but you may have a lead. So, you might have a manager and then a lead supervisor or a foreman, which then you can split up some of those evaluation points to provide feedback across the broader scope of your employees. Deborah Roy: The other thing you could do in a smaller company is you could train some frontline employees and or trainers who are experienced in the job with a little bit more ergonomic background so that they can be that person on the floor to evaluate people and give people corrective advice. And then, you know, if you find that somebody’s got some discomfort, they can go back and check on them later on and see if that improved. And that's what we found with our pilot last year, is when the ATs or the or the PTs went back to check on people, they were really appreciative. Number one, if the one on one and they also were able to acknowledge whether or not it helped and then if something else needed to be tweaked, it could be tweaked then. So, we just found that they really appreciate it. They got a lot out of it. But also, we didn't see the injuries at the other end. Pete Koch: Yeah. That's fantastic. And always when you get to make that personal connection with the person on the work floor, there is always a benefit rather than doing it remotely or even just in a video training like you're supposed to do this, fill out this form and let me know if anything happens. Deborah Roy: Right and that's the trouble with onboarding training from a safety perspective. You still need to do that, but people need to have the reinforcement after that. And they're just they're completely overwhelmed at the beginning when they go through all of the training. And they they're still trying to figure out, you know, where the bathroom is and how to get into the building. It's just too much for people to really absorb all of that. So, having some kind of reinforcement that's more personal later on seems to work well. Pete Koch: Yeah, that's a fantastic point. Many times if I'm going to do a presentation to a company and we're working with a bunch of new hires, one of the questions that I'll ask them is, so when did you have your orientation oh last week or this week or a couple weeks ago. Then I'll ask them. So, what do you remember? And it's fascinating what they remember. So, they'll remember when they get paid. They'll remember where the bathrooms are, they'll remember benefit stuff if there are any, like discount programs, food and stuff like that. Remember where they're working. But from a safety standpoint, it's kind of vague. It's more or less, well, they want me to be safe, but they don't really know how. That separation. So, I think one of the challenges with our seasonal workforce, the manager feels overwhelmed. They may go from a core group that they're used to; they have relationship with. They know the problems, the issues, the successes that the person has had, what they can do, their capacity. And then all of a sudden we have a new group of people that are coming in to manage not only a demand and productivity, but it changes how the supervisor feels about keeping their arms around their workforce and having an additional, well transferring some of that responsibility to a different person, other within the department or the company or from outside the company even to help with some of that seems to be pretty critical. Deborah Roy: And the supervisors do really appreciate it. Pete Koch: Yeah. Deborah Roy: Because it does take that focus from them. And they're pretty good about interacting with the other staff and then knowing what to check on. But it's just it is a relief to them to have that aspect sort of the focus of somebody else. Pete Koch: So, when we're doing those physical evaluations or biomechanical or ergonomic evaluations, do the evaluators have a checklist or are they going right back to those physical demands or how are they looking at the job? What are they use for cues? Deborah Roy: They do use the physical demands, but we've developed a format that they do on a on an iPad. And so, they're able to do their notes in the field and then be able to go back to those and then we can put them in our system so that if that person gets seen later on for an injury, the clinician can review that information. Pete Koch: You can tie that right back into oh, this was observed over here. And that helps add some clarity to that unclear a report of injury. I don't know when it started going backwards or my shoulder hurts, I'm not really sure how that started. Well, we can go and connect it back to that. Know that we made some changes, let's figure out if those changes worked or were, they not using those changes. Deborah Roy: Correct. Pete Koch: Excellent. So that's another part, too. So that evaluation process, the form on the iPad stemming from the job descriptions and the physical demands, and then looking at the job itself and figure out what points they need to evaluate, putting them in a list. And then that's what the person would bring out to the field. Deborah Roy: Which is why you could do something similar even with frontline employees who you've done a little bit of training on in ergonomics. We've also tested doing that. We have something called safety and ergonomic resources, who are individuals that are frontline employees who've had an additional maybe four hours of ergonomic training. We use them in various parts of our business in general. And we did also test last year having a couple of these frontline employees do something similar. And so for a smaller company, that might be an in-house resource with a little bit of training, that would be a low cost way to do something similar. Pete Koch: Yeah, that's a great idea. And I'm just thinking of some of the resources that are that are available out there. I mean, there's a ton of like office ergonomic checklists that you can look at. I know MEMIC has one specifically like the top 10 tips for office ergonomics or your desk setup or your chair that the layperson could take with them with some training of what to look for. Where do you start? How do you do that? How do you approach the person? Fill out the evaluation and then maybe make a couple of recommendations based on what they see, but then send it back to either the manager or the safety person to make some field evaluation or follow up later on to make more changes. Deborah Roy: And a company could actually just have a professional put that documentation together based on the job physical demands and then have a lay person actually do the evaluations. As we said, with just some lower level training. Pete Koch: That's a fantastic idea. So, the idea to work with your outside resources to help you put that together and then do some training with your internal resources to help expand the amount of touch you have on those seasonal workers. Deborah Roy: Correct. Pete Koch: Because that's super challenging. If you think if someone's going to work for you for a couple of months and even if they're working full time as the manager, you might only interact with that person for a few, maybe eight to nine hours over the time that they're working for you. And that's not a lot of time overall. So, the more you can split it out, the better. That's fantastic. We have other resources or people within L.L. Bean looking at the biomechanical side. What about other performance related feedback that could affect safety, whether it's in the production side of things or even the quality side of things? Deborah Roy: Typically, the frontline leaders are the ones that are actually going to give that feedback. So, if they found that the units per hour that that person was producing were extremely low, they might have a conversation with that individual. I will say what I've observed during peak is most of the employees, whether they're regular or seasonal, really understand the mission is to get that product out to the customer before Christmas. So, I think everybody really does really work together to fulfill that mission and people feel a sense of responsibility to do it. So, I don't see a huge issue, at least in our case, with people really not, you know, performing to the best of their ability. I think there's a lot of energy around that time of year and it is infectious. So, I think part of it, it's really more of an issue of focusing on quality and correcting items. If a seasonal employee doesn't quite get a particular issue and I know from doing it myself, as we call it, extra miling. And so, as a salaried employee who doesn't work in operations, we get asked to help out. And that's very traditional in the company that's been done for a lot of years. And so, I know from packing those boxes myself, I may make mistakes along the way. So, the leaders can, you know, then address those items with a seasonal employee, just like they would with us. Because when you have a quick training of here's how you do it. It may be a fairly simple task, but if there are any curveballs thrown in, I'm likely as a, you know, a salaried employee, I'm not gonna get it all. Pete Koch: Sure. Deborah Roy: And I think the same is true for the season, most particularly when they first start. Pete Koch: Oh, absolutely. Because you're bringing a filter with you and you're being taught that piece. And depending on how you see it done or feel it done or watch it done, you just might not get the whole concept. Deborah Roy: There's a there's a reason I went to college and found that and got a couple of degrees. Pete Koch: Absolutely. Deborah Roy: I would not have survived doing manual labor a long term. Pete Koch: I hear you I totally hear you. Do you mind if we talk about that? The employees understanding the mission because. Wow, that's a I think it's a critical part to helping your seasonal workforce be engaged in what they're doing. And it sounded like the infectious part of that, that it kind of grows out of the current workforce and the managers part of how that works. But how does L.L. Bean sort of build that into the seasonal workforce? Them understanding the mission and getting behind it. Deborah Roy: It's a good question. It's interesting. I think the culture is there to begin with. So that culture, I think does pull in. Those seasonal is obviously it's still different. The seasonals aren't in that environment year-round. But I do think they understand this, at least in this particular case. Really why it's necessary to get those packages out. And I think this is a pretty simple situation if you understand yourself that you're waiting for something to give as a gift. I think it's pretty easy to understand somebody else is waiting at the other end. And if you aren't able to process that order correctly, that there's going to be a customer that's going to be disappointed at the other end. So, it's a fairly straightforward concept. Pete Koch: For sure I get that. Do you find with their understanding of the mission and they're getting behind the mission that that push on productivity might push people to overdo or try to do more than they're capable of in in the job that they're asked to do? Deborah Roy: Interesting you asked that because a number of years ago when I was doing consulting with L.L. Bean. That was one of the things that we brought up as a potential con of this culture is people would go above and beyond in order to get packages out to the customer on time. And I think that has sort of people are still really focused on that mission today. But there's a much better awareness of how to do that safely today than there may have been 20 years ago. And so, although I think that's really important, the safety culture is ingrained and someone is more likely now, I think, to speak up if they need assistance than they would have in the past. And it does make a difference. So, you have to keep reinforcing the safety aspect of it. It's not an issue of safety first or quality first or productivity first. It's all of those things are part of the culture and the whole thing has to be accomplished in a safe way. Pete Koch: Yeah. That's a really good point. So, connecting everything together and really the evolution of looking at the job. Understanding how that job is managed. Understanding how to fix the worker, making changes along the way and putting that into practice helps to helps to manage the human desire to want to please to want to want to get this out to help the customer feel that they're getting something quality from whatever company they're working for. Deborah Roy: And you really do have to minimize the risk in in the operation so that when you are in a situation where you've got to get higher volume out the door and you have more people in the building, that there aren't risk created by that. And I think for a lot of companies, their approach in the non-peak season is, well, we only have to do small numbers of these. So, it's OK if the layout is not perfect. The fact is that if that's the case during peak and you're trying, you either have more people doing the task or you're doing more, that poor layout is going to have much more of an impact. And I think that's why it's important to have jobs evaluated appropriately by a professional, whether it's seasonal or not, because that will increase the injury potential. Pete Koch: We see it all the time where you have a company that manages really well through their shoulder seasons and they have to ramp up for their peak season and they have machines and systems in place to manage the demand. But they haven't looked at how the increased demand affects the worker. And then we have that it happens. And it could be fatigue. It could be repetition. It could be just lifting. Or however, they're going to put themselves at risk or a decision that they make is magnified by the demand. If we haven't managed that and we're not going to be a great outcome. So, let's take a quick break and we'll be back to the podcast in just a couple of seconds. Pete Koch: Welcome back to the Safety Experts podcast. Today, we're talking with Deborah Roy, president of SafeTech Consultants Inc. So, let's jump back in with more questions. Before the break, we were talking about monitoring performance and providing feedback to the seasonal workforce and in particular, some of the challenges that companies have with employees going above and beyond, sometimes doing too much in order to fulfill the mission because of the really positive culture that they have. They're really behind it. And it's awesome. But sometimes it results in injury or unsafe practices. So how did L.L. Bean manage some of that? Deborah Roy: One of the big things that we have to manage during peak is fatigue. And even for our regular year-round work force, but also for the seasonals we have to manage the hours. And what can happen is people get really excited. They get really behind this concept. They also see it as an opportunity to make some more money and to have overtime and. So, one of the things we've realized along the way is when you have a workforce that's close to an average age of 50 years old. Most of us can't do as much as we used to do or thought we could do when we were 25. And if you ramp up hours for a long time, you're going to get fatigue and you're going to get injured. So particularly if the jobs are fairly strenuous. So, there are a whole variety of things we do from a safety perspective in terms of job rotation and so forth. But one of our critical issues during peak is to use the 6, 6, 60 rules. And this is based on some research that was done on fatigue at work over the years. And so, we try to consider how many weeks people are going to be working more hours. So, for example, with the 6, 6, 60 rule for six weeks, the you know, an otherwise healthy person can probably work six days a week and up to 60 hours. So, 10-hour days, six days a week. And so that might be a reasonable expectation for that period of time. Beyond that, though, we find that people get fatigued to the point where their bodies start breaking down, and particularly if they already had some joint or a muscle that was already impacted previously. And as we get older, this just much more likely. And so, we ask and it's a guideline. It's not necessarily a black and white. We ask employees not to exceed that 60 hours a week. And the way we manage it internally is our systems actually allow our leaders to know they get a report every week and they know how many hours people and their teams have worked. And they'll go and talk to individuals if they're starting to exceed that time frame. So, and ask them how they're doing. And we also ask our leaders to give feedback to people. So, if they're looking tired, if they're looking like it's too much out on the floor, they go talk to people and they'll give them a day off. They'll give them some extra time. And so, we find that that actually works very well. It's just, again, a more one on one sort of approach. And it's not, you can, or you have to do one way or the other. But we find that people really appreciate that and it's much more supportive in that situation. But it's just reality that we're going to see injuries. If the average worker exceeds that. That's even more of an issue in a market where the unemployment rates low because often employees that are going to be working as seasonal employees are doing another job. So that's even more important to give feedback if an individual is looking fatigued because they may not be able to handle a second job even if this is part time. Pete Koch: Yeah. That's a great guideline, because if you don't you don't start with the job demand. You start to look at the human side of it. So, what can the human tolerate? And there are showing that there are some studies out there that can help us figure that out depending on the type of job that they're doing. And again, calling it a guideline. But then that place to start can help you determine numbers of employees now that you need to fill the need instead of saying that, well, I have this many positions and I can have this much time that the people can work. If you're working from 9 to 5 job or if you only have two shifts and you're closed for a portion of the time for maintenance or cleaning, which is where a lot of a lot of companies will start instead of starting, what's the demand on the employee? What can they handle? How many people do I need to manage that? And then how do I fill in the gaps? And then the feedback thing that you discuss going back to that, that personal connection, helping that person understand that, yes, someone's there. They care about you. We've seen you. You look pretty tired. You're here in your work cycle. What's happening? What can we do to help you make it through or? You know, I really think that we could probably cut your hours for the last part of this week and have you be healthy for next week instead of injured for the rest of your time here. Deborah Roy: Exactly. And I think that one on one connection is really important just from a leader standpoint in general, but particularly when you get into a peak situation. I think it's pretty critical. And we do a lot of things to try to help morale and so forth and assist the employees during that that period of time to support them. But this is, I think, one of the critical pieces. Pete Koch: The one on one. Do you do you do any training with the managers about how to provide that feedback? Deborah Roy: Yes, we do. We do a lot of leader training. Pete Koch: That's great, because I think that's a pretty critical part. And in my experience, doesn't matter whether it's retail, hospitality, construction, health care, the leaders, the on the floor leaders have really never had any management training. They get to be where they are because they're really good at the job are they've been doing it for the people that they're managing, but they really don't have any idea how to give constructive criticism or to look at somebody and say, jeez, you look pretty tired today. Not that you do, but you know. And how do you address that concern with you that you know, that that person is here in a second job so they can make ends meet someplace else? And it's a fine line to be able to manage that correctly and still keep morale up. So you do a lot of training on that side. Deborah Roy: We do. Pete Koch: That's fantastic. So, what other. What other things you do to help manage that? The challenge of finding enough employees to fill in those gaps. When you find people that have started to exceed that 6, 6, 60 guideline. Deborah Roy: As I mentioned earlier, part of the culture at L.L. Bean has always been that the non-operational employees that are salaried will help out. And so, when there are times where we need to get product out, the door we'll all help. And I think that also helps morale wise that everybody sort of there to back them up. If the warehouse employees are needing assistance and we generally set up either a separate packing line or a section of the packing line, that is all extra milers so that, you know, one of the leaders can manage us. Because obviously, we're not the most experience in these tasks, but we feel good about helping out. And in past years, I've actually set up a couple of evenings that I've said to my health, safety, and wellness staff. Oh, OK. I'll buy you a quick dinner and we're going to go pack from 6 to 10. And that's an example of. So, we would do that a couple of different weeks. And what the company has done is actually setup those sort of four hour shifts for extra miling in the past this year. What we're trying is some Sundays where people are going to sign up. And we did what's called early decision. So in August, people needed to make a decision if they could cover a couple of sundaes during the critical peak times and the same thing in the call center. We call that Code Green and so on. The busiest days and the call centers, which is generally Cyber Monday and Tuesday and the following Monday and Tuesday, we have people that are extra miling and doing what we call code green. Pete Koch: Answering the phones. Deborah Roy: Answering the phones and helping. And I've done that as well. And that's a little scary after you've done three, three and a half hours of training and then you're live on the phones. But we have a lot of employees that do that as well. So that's an example of how in our case, all of us sort of pitch in and help. We do also have other pilot programs that we've tried. For example, we have frontline employees in other non-operational areas that might do a second job in the warehouse or the call center. And so, they add some hours and work again within that 60 hours that we talked about, but they'll add some hours and do a second job. So that's one option. Another option. This year, we have a pilot that's called friends and Family. And so, employees can actually vouch for their friends and family who are able to do these particular tasks. We do the same thing we do for all the other seasonals is they still have to fill out the online health questionnaire and the nurse will talk to them if they have something that would preclude them from doing the job. We actually signed those individuals up in this pilot in August this year, and so we'll see how that goes. But this is a way to try to bring in some people that just want to work a little bit? And again, they might work with their friend or family member who's an employee on one of those Sundays, for example. And those jobs then can be sort of simple, simplified jobs that we're bringing in people. They wouldn't need a lot of training and they can help out during that time. That leaves the other jobs for the more experienced employees to do the other six days. Pete Koch: That's a fantastic idea to try to expand the workforce, which we've talked about is challenging to find for your seasonal staff. In a couple of key items in there that I heard was the jobs that you're bringing those folks in for. Ah, I won't say simple, but they're less complex. They have less risk involved but customer facing and reward facing. So, there's less mistakes possibly to be made to affect the customer and less potential for them to get injured. So maybe not so much less training, but less complex training that they would have to go through. Deborah Roy: The other thing we've done for both that group and for extra miling is we try to keep people to four hour or six-hour shifts. And that wasn't the case when I first went to the company. And that was something we've moved towards and we've worked with our operational leadership to move towards. That's really important. So, for my team, for example, of professionals who are salaried, they've already worked their eight-hour day. So, what I described of my team went out and we all went to pack, they we had all worked our daytime job and then went to pack in the evening. It's reasonable to for some of us that are desk jockeys to actually go and do four hours standing and packing. I can tell you, even for me, trying to do eight hours of that is just is physically very difficult. And to do that all at once, particularly if I've already worked all day. Pete Koch: Sure. And, you know, the law of diminishing returns, as you have someone who does more and more and more, they get less and less productive at it within that time frame. Deborah Roy: And they'll make more mistakes too. Pete Koch: Make a lot more mistakes. Deborah Roy: So, we found that that was just a much more productive to have employees from non-operational areas work at these shorter shifts. And I'm hoping that this the Sunday trial that we're gonna do this year will work out well. And again, those are gonna be six-hour shifts, but that'll be, you know, on a day that people aren't working otherwise. Pete Koch: Sure. It's interesting how we keep coming back to the decisions that we're making to manage productivity, have an effect on safety and the decisions that we make for safety have an effect on productivity. And when they're made for the right reasons, they all seem to be positive and move towards a better goal where we're gonna have a successful business in there with the seasonal workforce coming back to what we started with at the beginning. The systems that you have in place to manage the systems that you have in place to manage the workforce that is there with you all the time, you need to start with those and then look at how your seasonal workforce might fit in. Don't circumvent those programs that you have a build on those programs to help make your seasonal workforce successful. Deborah Roy: And I think that's true. And I think a lot of companies look at their seasonal process as not necessarily the same as their year-round. And but those individuals still need the same components. It just may be done in a more streamlined way. Pete Koch: Yeah, it's that thought of crisis management. Like most companies are pretty good at managing a crisis that comes up. Everyone pitches in together. They all focus on that. They don't always do the same production process or the same safe. They don't take the seams. Make the same safety-based decisions in a crisis. And they get to the end and they're successful, but they haven't followed the plan. What we should be doing is not looking at that. Our seasonal process as crisis management, even when demand sometimes overpowers our production. But look at it as how can we expand? Our systems right now to meet that demand. And yeah. Deborah Roy: I would say, too I have to compliment our operational leadership does a phenomenal job of planning for peak. So that's the other piece of this is they start way ahead of time. They know what's happened other years. They plan for upside and downside so that they have contingency in place to address those issues. And I you know, the idea here is we've talked about these other pilots that we're trying. Those are contingencies depending on how things flow. And I think it's really critical for companies to really do the planning upfront and don't just try to wing it. And that's where the injuries occur, is when you just try to wing it. And you haven't really even thought through what sort of the upside and the downside are. That's when things start to go awry. Pete Koch: Sure. For sure. That's fantastic. I think we're coming right towards the end of the podcast here. We've covered a lot of topics and covered a lot of ground today. Got in deep in some things and had some really great suggestions all the way from making sure we have our job descriptions in place and physical demands really detailed, making sure that we have a system to assess our employees and how they fit within the job. How to separate some of that responsibility. Not taking it away from the manager, but help providing helpers so that the manager can focus on productivity and quality and using some either outside resources or are well-trained inside resources to help with that. And then finally, looking at those contingency plans for providing feedback to the employees and I guess if there's one was there's one thing that is most important, the great takeaway for our listeners for managing a seasonal workforce. What do you think that might be if they could if we could take what we talked about today and bring it into one good working point for them, what might that be? I'll put you on the spot. Deborah Roy: All right. I think an integrated approach to planning is really critical. So having safety expertise at the table, working with operations leadership, working with human resources and everybody that's involved with hiring a seasonal workforce and then having executing a peak, it's really important to have everybody at the table and understand all the elements and then focus on the plan. And once that plan is in place, you can tweak it depending on what happens that season. But without that plan, it's just going to be a reaction. And we know from a safety perspective that typically reactions don't work. You really need to be proactive. Pete Koch: Yeah, very true. And that's a really great piece of advice because that integrating all aspects into the plan is something that any size company can do. You don't need to be an L.L. Bean in order to do that. You could be a mom and pop group and have a conversation across the table with your production manager and the two owners and still have that contingency plan. What are we going to do when we get a 12-foot snowstorm or what are we going to do when we have a hurricane or what are we going to do when we increase in our operations? So, having those contingency plans are fantastic. Thanks, Deb. I really appreciate that for your time here and given us your expertise. I really appreciate you coming on Safety Experts today. Deborah Roy: You're welcome. I enjoyed it. Pete Koch: Thanks again, Deb, for joining us today and to all of our listeners out there. Today we've been speaking with Deborah Roy, president of SafeTech Consultants Inc. And the recently retired corporate director of Health, Safety and wellness for L.L. Bean. We've been talking about seasonal workforce challenges and solutions. If you have any questions for our guests or would like to hear more about a particular topic or from a certain person on our podcast email podcast at MEMIC.com. This podcast is presented by MEMIC, a leader in workers compensation insurance and a company committed to the health and safety of workers. To learn more about how MEMIC can help your business, visit MEMIC.com. Don't forget about our upcoming workshops and webinars and for classes and dates and what's out there. Go back to MEMIC.com. A lot of information out there. And when you want to hear more from the safety experts, you can find us on iTunes or right here at MEMIC.com. And if you have a smart speaker, you can tell it to play the safety experts podcast and you can pick today's episode or previous episodes. You can also enable the safety experts podcast skill on Alexa and receive safety tips and advice from any of our episodes. We appreciate you listening and encourage you to share this podcast with your friends and co-workers. Let them know they can find it on their favorite podcast player by searching for the safety experts. And thanks again for tuning into the Safety Experts podcast. Remember, you can always learn more by subscribing to the podcast at MEMIC.com/podcast.

** Please join me for a live broadcast Saturday morning 10 am - 12 noon Central Time, November 2nd, 2019 from the Starworks USA UFO Symposium, held at the Aquarius Casino & Resort in Laughlin, NV. https://starworksusa.com . The Exploring Unexplained Phenomena radio program (EUP) will start with "Pet Talk" with Charleen from the Capital Humane Society of Lincoln, NE talking about dogs and cats for adoption. The second segment is "The Seen and the Unseen" with Preston Dennett. Always some interesting stories that Preston is working on. Then I'll have live conversation with folks at the UFO Symposium, broadcasting from my hotel room at the Resort. I hope you can listen in. Listen live worldwide Saturday morning 10 am - 12 noon Central Time, http://www.kzum.org . Listen live in Lincoln, NE via KZUM Radio 89.3 FM. Listen to the free EUP program archives: 2005 - 2/2019, http://www.eupradio.net . 2/2019 to the present, http://www.kzum.org/eup/ . Thanks to Lou Braatz for running the board at the Lincoln, NE studio Saturday, and to Jim Shorney as always for his help. Stay curious !

What's going on everyone? It is the afternoon of Tuesday, November 5th. I hope everyone is having a great day. Something I was as thinking about today, and I also realized I think about somewhat often. It's interesting because I'll think about what I want to talk or write about on this podcast, then through the day something will naturally pop into my head, and I'll notice it more. Then I'll think oh yeah this is something that comes up quite a bit, why not talk about it. When we express an opinion or emphasize our point of view in certain instances, it's important not to become too emotionally attached to being right. And to acknowledge it's possible, we may change our stance on it at some point, or we may be flat out wrong. It's important because it will change our tone and how we express our thoughts on the matter, and how we will respond in the instance that we are wrong. And, it's not a likable quality to act like we're going to be right all the time, especially when it's something you obviously obviously might possibly have wrong. If we tie our ego and emotional state to being right, it's going to be harder and more painful, or almost impossible, to admit we were wrong, and we'll look rather stupid if we were over-bearing about the point in the first place. If we understand from the beginning that being wrong was a possibility, it's a lot easier to say hey you know what I misjudged this one. I was wrong. I am going to learn from it. I'm glad I was able to see this and get it better the next time. If I find I'm wrong about something, I'll try to immediately acknowledge it and say that I was wrong, and it automatically feels good to state the truth. And if we're honest and humble, people will see this, and it's excellent quality. Also, sometimes out of immaturity, or insecurity, or other reasons, people will want to embellish in the fact that we were wrong. Maybe like an I told you so type attitude, or wants to act like the smartest person in the room. Initially, this can rub us the wrong way by the natural reaction. If we instantly and calmly admit to our mistaken thinking and embrace it, it diminishes their ability to do this. It suffocates their chance to embellish in this by saying yes, I was wrong, and I'm glad I was able to learn so that we can move forward. I'll be better the next time. In a sense, it's getting out of our way, by recognizing our ego may be slightly bruised, but it's much better than being the person that can't admit they were wrong. Plus, it's an effective way to move on. Especially if it's a business involved thing, we want to be able to acknowledge the situation as fast as possible and move on with whatever the reality is. So the most sophisticated look for the ways they may be wrong so they can correct their thinking as soon as possible. There is not much emotion in it. Of course, there are things we can take a stance on and not waiver, such as blatant moral or ethical issues, but for the situations where there is potential to be wrong. For instance, projections in the market we're working in, what people will want to buy, how much inventory should we have on hand, what our strategy should be in certain divisions of the business. Tying ourselves to a stance and then not letting ourselves have an out due to the emotional response or damaged ego is not the way to go. If we leave some flexibility, then we'll be able to say, oh yeah, I thought this, but I was wrong. People see that you're able to recognize you were wrong, and they will appreciate that and be more likely to want to continue to have a dialogue with you. And again, from a business standpoint, leaders will want to see and work with people that are willing to do whatever is best for the mission and accept the reality even if it means acknowledging we were wrong. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/activecannabis/support

Welcome to the "What Business Should I Start" podcast! My name is Avi Shenkar and I'm your resident entrepreneur.This podcast is meant to inspire you with theoretical and actual businesses, give you the necessary steps to start, build, and grow your business.In this episode, I'll give you a little bit of background on myself and the reason I launched this podcast. Then I'll get right into my first business idea which is an electric scooter eCommerce startup.

Let's be honest, some days we don't feel like we're superstars. Some days be feeling like anxiety and worry and the "what if's" are taking over our lives! We all experience those days where we know we need to show up, create and share some magic, but our body is trying to keep us in bed, under the covers and watching Netflix. We look at other people's social media and "comparisonitis" takes over crippling us even more! It's time to stop it. In this episode, I'll guide you through a series of questions to accelerate your aha's so you can uncover what's creating these breakdowns. Then I'll guide you through a series of scripts so you can release the old and outdated and start feeling powerful like the superstar you really are!

In today's podcast Mason chats to Steph Gaudreau. Steph is a Nutritional Therapy Consultant, author, strength coach, blogger and podcast show host. Steph believes women have the right to be strong and take up space because the world needs their voices now more than ever, and we would have to agree! Steph and Mason discuss: Steph's Core 4 principals for health and happiness. Dogma in the areas of health and fitness. Embracing your bio individuality. Nutrition and food preparation. The importance of moving with intention. Aligning your activity with your life. Self worth, value and non attachment.   Who is Steph Gaudreau?  Steph Gaudreau’s is a Nutritional Therapy Consultant, author, strength coach, podcaster, and the creator of the former Stupid Easy Paleo. Steph's mission is to help women create bigger, bolder and fiercer lives by building health from the inside out. Steph has written three books. Her newest book The Core 4, is a #1 Amazon best-seller. Steph is the host of her own chart topping podcast; Harder to Kill Radio, here she talks all things fitness, nutrition and mindset about how to build unbreakable humans.   Resources: Steph's Website Steph's Podcast Steph's Facebook Steph's Instagram Steph's YouTube Steph's Twitter Steph's Book: The Core 4  Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify! We got you covered on all bases ;P   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Mason Taylor:  Good day everybody. I've got Steph Gaudreau here with me. All right, Steph, I'm just go in and do my little brief introduction of you. Steph you [authored] a newly published book, The Core 4, which I got the opportunity to have a quick squeeze at when we were at Revitalizing in Arizona a couple of months ago. Steph believes women have the right to feel strong and take up space. Steph's a nutritional therapist consult, USA weight lifting strength coach, podcaster, which I really like your podcast, Harder to Kill, and blogger. Your blog's epic. We'll put the links to blogs in the show notes, basically leading a large community of women that are embracing their bodies and owning their innate power. You're a best selling author already, which is going to be awesome to talk about. You're an international speaker. You've been featured in SEKF, Outside, Elle and Greatest. Now, your favorite things, cold brewed [cats] and Liz Lemon. Tell me, what is it about Liz Lemon from 30 Rock that you love the most?   Steph Gaudreau:  I just love how irreverent she is and she's just perfectly awkward which is me. I relate to Liz Lemon so much.   Mason Taylor:  You know what one of my favorite memories of a show ever is watching Liz Lemon in that Muppet episode where she walks around like a Muppet. It's one of my favorite things ever.   Steph Gaudreau:  Oh my gosh, yeah. I just love her. I just love her so much.   Mason Taylor:  Hey, so tell me, where are you in the world? What's going on?   Steph Gaudreau:  I am in lovely San Diego, California. Not much is happening. It's been kind of quiet this week. It's only Monday but it's been pretty low key. I've been in post-book launch recovery mode, I would say, hermiting up a little bit more so than usually. Yeah, just getting out there and doing work as I always do and talking to people.   Mason Taylor:  You were saying it was about 2015 when you really started working on this book.   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah. The book is based on a program that I created in early 2015. At the time it was called, Healthy, Happy, Harder to Kill. Over the years, it's morphed into the Core 4 program. It's crazy, over 1,000 people have done the program and just had really amazing transformations in their lives and then a year and a half or so ago started working on the book. It took about 17 or 18 months to bring it to the final result that you see today.   Mason Taylor:  Tell me about it. Core 4 is in the evolution of it. You've had Harder to Kill as the name of your podcast and of the program. Is there a reason that it's evolved beyond that name? Has there been an inner morphology for yourself in that time?   Steph Gaudreau:  For sure. I've been blogging on what I would call the iteration of my website that exists today, and even that's changed over the nine years, eight years but I've been blogging for about 10 years. As often does, when you're out there in the world synthesizing your thoughts and sharing things with people and learning, you change and things change. It's interesting to me because we always expect other people to change so quickly, relationships in the world. We're like, "Why aren't people changing?" Then when we think of ourselves, we're like, "Oh my God, but I'm changing." It's almost like a bad thing.   Steph Gaudreau:  It's definitely changed over time. The name of the program initially came from a nutrition seminar that I was doing in San Diego at a gym. I was talking to everyday people. I think in that gym setting, there was a tendency for people to think that they have to act like the elite level athletes that they see on TV and be really hard on themselves and push themselves really, really hard. I said something to them like, "You know, I think you guys here just want to be healthy and happy and harder to kill." Everybody reacted and laughed and elbowed each other. It was a funny moment.   Steph Gaudreau:  Initially, that phrase was in my brain from Mark Rippetoe who's a strength coach here in the States who has a quote that's something like, "Strong people are more useful in general and harder to kill," or something like that, just stuck as a way to talk about being resilient and strong. That became the name of the podcast.   Steph Gaudreau:  Over time, things have really changed. I really wanted a name for the book and the program eventually that summed up the holistic nature of that and the fact that it's not the only thing. These aren't the only four things that matter when we're trying to work on health and wellness and resilience and our mental health and our physical health. They're just four really important things but not the only four things. That's why I called them the Core 4. I anticipate that soon the podcasting will be changing as well. I just don't know what to. I think it's time to shed that skin yet again and continue to evolve and change.   Mason Taylor:  I only got to hang out with you for those couple of days. We got to spend a good amount of time together. I had a good chat with you on your podcast, but I'm interested in this morphology especially when you've got a large following. With that Harder to Kill, I love the name by the way, but I really can appreciate where you explored a particular area of your work, and especially with Harder to Kill, did that bring your focus really heavily onto the movement, the strength, diet ... I don't know if I'm missing anything else in terms of maybe mindset.   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah. I think when you look out in the world, when you see the things that people are really passionate talking about and they're really sharing, it oftentimes mirrors their own experience, what they're going through, what's really prevalent for them in their life, what their values are. I think if you look back at 2013, '14, '15 Steph, I was strength training way more than I am now. I was really competing, training, really, really hard, building physical strength, certainly important. It still is important to me but maybe not so much in that type of intensity.   Steph Gaudreau:  Over time, I have drifted toward ... and it's become this really interesting evolution for me of really leaning into my own ... I don't know what you would call it. Some people might call it witchy. Some people might call it green. Some people might call it just very nature-loving. I've really come back around to a lot of the things that were really important to me as a kid and I was really interested in.   Steph Gaudreau:  My grandfather was really a hugely influential figure for me. I'm sure in a lot of ways I idolized him and put him on a pedestal. He was really like my father figure, but he died when I was eight. I feel like I lost a parent when I was so young. He really instilled in me this interest in nature and living things. It was something I was so interested in. When I went to high school and then eventually college, you do what most people do, when you're interested in that stuff, you study science. I have this really interesting duality to myself as a person where I feel so connected to nature as spirit and nature as wise and love, gardening ... I was gardening with my grandfather and my grandparents when I was really little, just experiencing that magic and then coming very steeped in science and scientific method and the coldness of science and the dogma of science.   Steph Gaudreau:  Only very recently have I started to explore those other parts of me again. I think you're seeing that reflected a lot in my work just with the idea that strength can be very hard but it can also be very soft. Strength can be holding on very tightly and persevering and never giving up. Strength can also be letting go and understanding that there is that duality to it. That's, I think, I'm really exploring that in my own work too and really coming home to this idea of myself as a very strong individual. While I am one of the most sensitive and pathic, highly sensitive person stimulized, everything is very amplified for me, my intuition and that really figuring out what is my role with all of that, what can I help people facilitate, what can I help women facilitate in their own ... this transformation, this journey that they're on. I think a lot of times when you see people who are talking about certain things, it is what's at top of mind for them. That's really why it's changed over the years, I think.   Mason Taylor:  I'm really interested, going forth, basically what interested me the most is a lot of women listening who follow along on this SuperFeast podcast, we talk a lot about the space between the stars. Before we get into the Core 4, I'm interested in what are space between the stars of the Core 4. Thanks for sharing all that because it clears it up a lot for me. I feel like it's one of these things that's difficult to communicate on paper. It's a living and breathing internal journey and it's something that needs to be felt and perceived almost by the body and the spirit rather than the mind just chewing it up.   Mason Taylor:  You already brought up the dogma of science, and then almost you can feel, and I can relate to this, especially you can feel when we start out our work especially with blogging or communicating with the world, we almost need a bit of a scientific method. It's got to be the coldness which in [Dower's] Theory is real foundation, physical yin. Yin is cold. It's cold energy. Although it does have a fluidity and leads onto that yang of expression and then in the middle of those two things, we get that middle part I think which we are talking about which doesn't have dogma. Dogma leads to us linking that primal essence of our yin and yang jing.   Mason Taylor:  The first time you showed me the book, one thing you really did bring up was wanting to bring forth a dynamic and non-dogmatic approach for women to embrace. I'm interested to hear exactly what you've been talking about with diet. I've enjoyed going through your blog. I think especially the cover of your book is you looking very strong, about to swing a kettlebell. It's something which I feel like for women to be able to go into something like strength training with a dogmatic approach or an identity approach or a justification or anything like that, that's the kind of space in between the stars I just want to talk a little bit about before we go into these Core 4, why you felt it was important to lead with that. I do that a lot as well when I talk about my approach to health and diet. As well, that breeds into things like the guilt and shame around food and body image and self-worth which become quite a huge thing.   Mason Taylor:  You seem to be hitting on a very unique point that I can tell your sensitivity is coming out, especially with women and strengthening themselves, not getting caught up in that strength means bulking. You had a recent post there, Instagram, where you really went on, really bled from your heart around that. Can you just tell me about that emotional fabric of the book that's weaving this all together, non-dogmatically?   Steph Gaudreau:  Oh my gosh, yeah. It's really hard to summarize and put all into one thing. I think it comes down to a few main points. The first is that we, and I say we as collective, we collectively, humans, in this modern space, are so distanced and divorced and separate from our bodies. What I mean by that is, for whatever reason, it's learned, it's power socialized, it is what we've been taught, it is what we've lost connection to with ourselves where we just don't even know how we feel. I'm not even necessarily talking about emotionally. I really mean in the body. What is our connection to our body? How does our body feel? What does our body need? What is our body telling us? What are our body's sensations.   Steph Gaudreau:  I'll give you a perfect example. I can tell you the very second I feel like I'm getting a cold. I don't get sick all that often, but I'm so tuned in to how my body feels that the second I feel that weird tickle, I'm like, uh-oh. You can feel it coming on. While I don't think everybody has that level of sensitivity, I also think that we, again collectively, make it seem like people are too stupid to pay attention to their own bodies. I think we're really busy as well, so I think some of that comes with slowing down, quieting down, turning inward. It's both an external and an internal. It's like a push-pull.   Steph Gaudreau:  I really think that we need to get back into connection with our bodies in that way. The perfect example, everybody knows when they have to use the bathroom. You're like, "All right, I've got to go." Yet if we think of something very simple like hunger, and I say simple in air quotes here, but this sensation of hunger of feeling full, that becomes extremely complicated for a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. We can sense that we have to use the bathroom but why is it so hard to sense hunger and fullness sometimes? A lot of that goes back to how we're told what to eat, when to eat, how much we should be eating. We're outsourcing that to somebody else. Maybe we learned it starting in childhood. We were told we had to clean our plate or we couldn't leave the table. We're overriding our own sensations of that, whatever the reason might be.   Steph Gaudreau:  The same thing goes for physical fitness or physical movement. A lot of people, myself included, in the past have really just pushed through really obvious signs and signals from the body that it's time to back off or it's time to rest.   Steph Gaudreau:  To bring it all back together, I think where we get mixed up is the dogma, there's only one right way to do things. There is only one way this can be accomplished. Here I'm going to bestow this knowledge upon you. Now you're beholden to me as the giver of that information. Your body's experience, your own personal experience is now taken away from you. You're just told listen to what I'm telling you.   Steph Gaudreau:  I could be the world's best nutritionist. I could be the world's best strength coach. I could put together a program that's going to make you ... say do these things exactly as I tell you, and you'll probably get stronger. However, you could be somebody for whom that's too much intensity, that's going too quickly, that food doesn't work for you. If you are convinced that I'm the expert and that you don't know anything about your own body, you may not catch those things and vice versa.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think that's where when people are coming to these things like I want to work on nourishing my body more, I want to perhaps improve my nutrition, I want to move more in my life, I want to introduce strength training, there is going to be a limit to which somebody can tell you what to do, and it's going to have a great outcome.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think that's really what I think about when I think about dogma and one right way to do things. Yes, people do get really hitched to that as part of their identity. When something happens in life where they can't keep doing that thing or they're presented with new information ... and the perfect example would be where somebody is really for either ethical reasons or health reasons or whatever the reasons would be, decides to not eat any animal products. Oftentimes, what happens is if there's a nutrient deficit or something happens and they then go back to eating animal products, there's a really huge dissidence between what is the identity versus what is making the body feel the best right now.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think taking a very bio individual approach is really important. In order to accomplish that, we have to be willing to develop, it's called inter-receptive awareness. You have to be willing to be back in touch with our body's signs and signals. How can we know what works for us if we're not paying attention? It becomes really tricky.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think ultimately, I would love for that space in between for people to be a very intuitive way of eating and a very intuitive way of moving and a fluid way of going about our lives where we're not beholden to the rules and the structure to the point that it degrades our life in some way. It causes us to have worse health outcomes or our enjoyment of life suffers. Oftentimes people will say, "I'm doing this thing because it's supposed to improve longevity," but they're not actually enjoying life because they're so worried about food or they're so worried about what they're eating when they go out, or they can't be in social situation and handle food. At that point, the benefit is now not outweighing the cost. The cost is outweighing the benefit.   Steph Gaudreau:  I really love the cost benefit analysis for people if they're not super in touch with their bodies yet is to think about what am I getting from this and what is it costing me. Everything has a cost. Ultimately, that's my goal is provide a framework, provide some structure for you to explore and experiment, but ultimately, you're the expert on that stuff.   Mason Taylor:  Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's the source of a lot of confusion yet it's also ultimately the source of a lot of clarity for people in learning that there is a bit of that yin-yang balance and a bit of dichotomy in the beginning between having a goal and having a framework. I was one of those people that was very obsessed with my diet back in the day when I was a raw foodist and very focused on longevity and on the particular supplementation and particular herbal protocols in order to give me an outcome, which in excess, I could see it was somewhat of a mental or egoic agenda. For me, I felt the time to tap out was I got bored with myself, and then I had to kick back in to try and develop a real intuitiveness, maybe an integration with my past and impulses that I did have that I'd label as bad that I wanted to integrate with. The pendulum swing was so large that in developing my perception of my inner world, I, at some point, lost and became resentful towards having goals or having a framework in any way.   Mason Taylor:  I really sympathize when women going through this process and men as well, going between those pendulums. I can imagine, maybe we can talk about this a little bit, what your experience was when you were getting your intra-perception really going. I think [Tonni] talks a lot about this on the podcast, my fiance. We do it together. She has a lot of yin yoga teacher training. The whole idea with that is to develop that intricate awareness of yourself and that intuitive awareness of yourself. How do you manage opening up that door to that tunnel of learning of how to go by your instincts and your unique body and then educating, you will come to the end of that tunnel where you would have gone through that first stage of learning what's you, what you need without dogma. Then you're going to have to close that door of ambiguity and move towards something where you've got a bit more of an integration between your impulses and your inter-perception and the framework that's going to work with you, and you're going to be able to use that cost benefit analysis.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think it's really tough. I think that the one biggest area of frustration that I observe with the people that I work with and with my community at large, with the people who do my program, is that they just want answers. They just want to know what to do. I totally understand that and yet the analogy that comes to me is that ... and I was talking about this earlier, so this is probably is why it's coming up, it's just on top at mind. People are always trying to find their voice. What's my voice? What do I stand for?   Mason Taylor:  What's my purpose?   Steph Gaudreau:  What am I here to do? The way that you find that out is not by just thinking about it. Thinking helps. I don't think being just impulsive into action all the time is a great thing. There's definitely a time to pause. I think if you were just to sit there and try to think this into existence, it's not as powerful as continuing to teach or whatever it is you do, create if you're a creator. Do the thing that you want to do and keep refining over and over and over again. There is part of it that is experiential. I think that's the tough part. I think where it becomes most elevated is where people don't feel good.   Steph Gaudreau:  If we don't feel good in our bodies, what do we do? I think that's where coming in with some basics, looking at those key things that you can incorporate that will bring you back some energy, that will make your digestive system feel better, that will perhaps help you sleep better. Those can go such a very long way, but at some point there's going to be some tinkering but tinkering forever. Not everybody's a bio hacker and not everybody has the money nor the time or the brain space to devote to that literal just constant self-experimentation, so finding the place for you that's that maintenance mode and being okay being there and dipping in and out of that mode from time to time.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think my friend Pat Flynn talks about it very well in terms of being a generalist. Sometimes you'll have an area you really want to learn about and totally nerding out on that and getting heavy into that and then doing those things that feel right. I would also say from a place of self-compassion and self-respect and self-care instead of a place of I hate myself and I just need to fix myself so I'll be happy. I think that [crosstalk 00:21:20].   Mason Taylor:  Yeah, super important, get that clear from the beginning. Rolling on from that, with one of the Core 4, I'm assuming is nutrition. Let's go into that. I really appreciate you having that conversation with me. I feel like sometimes I get the comment a lot that people really appreciate it and sometimes I like to reframe why I focus on these things before jumping into a topic where we need some structure is because I like to know that fabric of reality that these recommendations are coming from so that it can have more of that long burn, slow burn rollout of what's going to be right for our unique body. You put that as one of the things that's like eating the foods for your unique body, moving with intention. It's like, "Oh great. Okay, what are the steps that I take to do that," which there are steps, but we need to know the fabric of intention, I feel, behind it.   Mason Taylor:  With the food, let's look a couple of things. Let's look at the practical. What are the changes that you are generally going to be recommending if we're going to be a generalist? I do agree that that's nice, areas for people to explore to see if it works for their body in terms of core recommendations for women, if you could cast a wide blanket, what you're talking about, and then balance that out with eating. One of the things that comes up a lot is everyone's got their three square meals a day. I don't know if you talk about that or in terms of portions, what you eat when and allowing yourself to crack out of any kind of dogma that possibly we got from growing up, possibly from previous dieting, from magazines. I feel like that's a good balancing and practical and then bringing your intuition into that. Could you cover those both?   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah, for sure. I think you're absolutely right. There's definitely going to be a time and a place for giving people some ... the way I describe it is if I just sat you at the edge of a forest without a map and there were no paths at all, you would just be wandering around and getting lost. I love the idea of a rough path to follow where you can always come back to that path. You can dip in and out but you still have that path to keep you from getting lost in all the information.   Steph Gaudreau:  You're right, there's a lot of misinformation that we're up against when it comes to nutrition. Unfortunately, when I talk about weight loss and dieting, and I'm talking about ... I don't know if this is a thing in Australia, but the Slim Fast, Jenny Craig dieting systems of the '80s and '90s that everybody thinks is hogwash. They're like, "Oh, that stuff's so silly." Yet, there are echoes of that that still-   Mason Taylor:  Absolutely. There's modern rendition.   Steph Gaudreau:  There are modern renditions of that. I think we need to be really clear, at least I need to be really clear that when I'm talking about nutrition, this is talking about nourishing your body and giving it everything it needs to thrive and not doing the thing where we're withholding food and punishing ourselves by withholding food and playing the game with how little can we eat.   Steph Gaudreau:  I say all this because this is all stuff that I've done. Certainly, I always like to mention that if people are having problems with disorder eating and eating disorders that professional help is really important with that stuff. We can't always just self-treat, especially if that stuff's really serious. I just always like to make that recommendation and tell people that there's no shame in getting help.   Steph Gaudreau:  With all that being said, I think that we're still facing a situation of chronic undernourishment with people, whether it's just food that's not super high-quality making up a lot of the diet or quantity of food. This is where it gets complicated too because not everybody has the same access to food and high-quality food. That's just a whole other just part of the discussion.   Steph Gaudreau:  Just in practical terms, I think people are always like, "Well, just tell me how much to eat." I get to that point where I'm like, "Yeah, but I don't know how much food you need. I don't know how hungry you are."   Mason Taylor:  Have you changed that progression from recommending portion sizes to now recommending something a little bit different?   Steph Gaudreau:  If I look back at the earlier work that I've done, sometimes I would provide some ballpark range for people or what does a standard serving look like. Yet, that has shifted over time as well. I really like a visual plate if people are really just like, "I don't even know where to start." Okay, let's just start with one meal a day. Can we start with one meal a day instead of saying I need to eat perfect for seven ... seven times three is 21. You need to eat 21 perfect plates this week. Let's just start with one meal. I would love to see that half that plate or a little bit more is plants, is vegetables, is something that you want to try, a new thing.   Steph Gaudreau:  I always am a really big advocate for adding things when we're talking about nourishment. Again, when we get into this mentality of this being diet and a diet, not diet in terms of what we eat but a diet which is not what this is but one of the things that comes up is removal, restriction, taking everything away. How would you feel, Mason, if I was like, "You can't have this, this, this, this, this, this and this." You'd be like, "This is my favorite stuff."   Mason Taylor:  For my particular archetype it works when I think egoically Little Mason, when I think that I'm somehow superior because I've found the thing that's better than what the rest of the people are doing. This is a little vain little thing that I've identified in myself. It is easy for me to follow it but then once ... that doesn't last so long. My rat bag kicks in after a while and then I rebel against that thing that I've given myself.   Steph Gaudreau:  Yes, which is what happens with most people. It's either it's too restrictive. It bring up in some people out of control or loss of control eating or rebellion. There's some part that's like, "I'm not doing this anymore." I really like to think about adding things to the plate whenever possible. Can you try a new vegetable this week? Make it fun and colorful. Okay, let's start with red. Everybody loves colors. I think it sounds so elementary and so little kid, but I promise you, okay, this week I'm going to try something new from the grocery store from the produce area that's red or orange. Just go through the colors. I'd like to challenge people to do half the plate or a little bit more of vegetables.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think no matter what you believe in terms of nutrition, whether you're like we include animal protein, we don't include animal protein, we're high carb, low carb, blah-blah-blah, whatever it is, everybody can agree except the carnivores, that vegetables are awesome.   Mason Taylor:  It's except for the carnivores and the people diving into the lectin theory.   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah, that one's a little bit tough. I think for the most part most people agree getting some more vegetables really [crosstalk 00:27:58].   Mason Taylor:  I like to bring it up because I that you study it so extensively, and I do myself, but that exasperation that can come about when you do look at all of a sudden carnivore is huge and the lectin theory that plants are trying to basically kill us but they're just defending themselves and have anti nutrients, and that's quite often why cooking of it, which was hard for me to come to terms with as a raw foodist in terms of why cooking and preparation was important.   Mason Taylor:  I feel like where you're going with this especially is out of that diet mentality and into having, what I call anyway, a living kitchen where it's more about what's going to fit into your lifestyle and your flow. Inside of that, what are some of the preparation methods? What are some of the core ... principles are really a cold way to put it in that scientific model but to put it in your living and breathing culture of your diet, what are the aspects of food preparation and consistency in your choices that are really shining bright and you see working in your clients at this-   Steph Gaudreau:  That's a really good question. I think definitely properly preparing, like you said, especially grains and legumes, really, really important and even for something people nuts and seeds. They don't do so well with un-sprouted or un-soaked nuts, seeds, legumes, things like that. Actually my nutritional therapy training is very similar to a [inaudible] approach in terms of food preparation. We talk about properly prepared. If we're going to do beans or lentils or whatever, we're going to soak those. We're going to make sure that they're ready to cook, grains oftentimes sprouted.   Steph Gaudreau:  I've made the switch to I'll buy quinoa, but I'm buying sprouted or I'm buying something that's just had a little bit more preparation. You can do these things at home too. You don't always have to buy them. Nuts and seeds, too, a lot of people do really well with soaking those first.   Steph Gaudreau:  I would say that's a good practice to get into if you have that bandwidth. Yeah, cooking vegetables and cooking foods does make them easier to digest for a lot of people. I personally recommend a mixture of raw and cooked if you can handle the raw stuff.   Mason Taylor:  What do you mean by handling it? With your clients, what do you see as handling a raw food?   Steph Gaudreau:  I think some people don't do really well with FODMAPS which are some different types of essentially carbohydrates that are in certain foods, certain plant foods. Two that always come to top of mind because I don't do super well with are things like garlic and onions. For me, if I were to eat raw onions and raw garlic, my digestive system is not going to be happy. Cooking those things or slow roasting them oftentimes I do a little bit better. Some people just don't tolerate that stuff very well at all. This is where the bio individual stuff really comes in.   Steph Gaudreau:  For a lot of people that eat a lot of raw food, it's a lot of fiber. They're not used to it. It's too much too quickly. They'll oftentimes have bloating or it's possible for people who aren't used to eating a higher fiber diet, they eat a lot of fiber and then they get constipated, so just not used to that bulk of fiber, and so making sure we're really well-hydrated. Pooping every day is really important. I talk about poop quite a bit because it's so important to help move stuff out of the body in a timely manner. Certainly, we don't want to be pooping too much in a day, but going three, four, or five plus days is actually common for a lot of women. That can lead to things like recycling estrogens in the body and all sorts of stuff. We want to make sure we're moving stuff out.   Steph Gaudreau:  Again, if you notice that your gut is so sore or you're burping a lot or you're really bloated after you eat or you have excessive amount of gas, those are signs that your body's telling you that that might not be working. Maybe back off on the raw stuff and integrate more cooked foods for a while. It really depends on the person. I would say-   Mason Taylor:  That's so common as well. I've got to bring that up, the bloating and the connection. I feel like it's going to get to the point where we get to maybe stop talking about it soon and it really permeates through the community. It is actually amazing how many people write to me in that ... You know it. When you're dogmatic in the beginning and that diet really works with you in levels of energy and maybe your skin health or something like that. It happens a lot with veganism and raw food. It definitely was for me.   Mason Taylor:  Then there's these other symptoms like bloating that are occurring and the fear. It's well and good for us to say don't go with dogma, but I really understand that fear cycle. If I let go of this system that's healed me and this dietary protocol that's healed me even though I'm getting those signs my poo's runny and I'm bloating, even though that's occurring, if I move on to something like well-cooked foods for a while and nourishing spleen and gut diet, and this is just one pattern, it's not for everybody, but what if everything else goes away. What if my skin problems come back? What if my energy levels go down again? It's a difficult one sometimes or just something that we need to put out there as a possibility and there is a next step.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think that's a really important point that you bring up because it's not always just about removing more foods. We have to always have that opposing or a complimentary idea that their function's really important. Might the food affect the function? Sure, but it's possible to have ... and this where I see people get into trouble because they think, "Well, I've removed some foods from my diet. I'm doing an elimination protocol. I'm still not feeling better, so I need to remove more and more and more and more and more things."   Steph Gaudreau:  Then we get into a cycle where we have a lot of stress, we have a lot of fear and anxiety. That in and of itself psychologically feeds back into our digestive system and our digestive ability, so we're more sympathetic, we're sympathetic dominant. That's inhibiting things like our stomach acid production, digestive juices, that digestive fire, we don't quite have it. It becomes this really interesting feedback loop.   Steph Gaudreau:  For example, if somebody has an H-pylori infection, they need to get that taken care of. There's an overgrowth of bacteria that's an infection that they need to get cleared, or if they have overgrowth of bacteria in their small intestine, we really shouldn't have a preponderance of bacteria in our small intestine. It should be in our large intestine. That small intestinal bacteria overgrowth, you need to get that taken ...   Steph Gaudreau:  It's not just about removing more foods to try to improve that function. You get to a point where you're like, "I need to attack this directly," or they could have a parasitic infection. There's all sorts of stuff that could be going on in the gut. That then influences so many other things. We know there's a gut-brain connection. We know there's a gut-mood connection. We know there's a gut-skin connection. It's so incredibly important.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think it's important to mention that yes, what we eat and how we eat it matter but then come to a point where if you're still experiencing discomfort and dysfunction, just continuing to remove more and more and more foods might not be the answer for you.   Mason Taylor:  Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's something I've definitely bumped up against, what can I add in, what can I take out. That's a necessary surface conversation because it's easy to do and wrap your head around. Just for example, and whether you're eating animal products or not, just when you start going into depth rather than staying in that surface level, something like food preparation could be ... You just need to go deeper. You've gotten all these great take-outs, and you've added all these great things in and it's not working for you, maybe you just need to go a little bit deeper into your food preparation or a little bit deeper into your intuitive nature in and around when you ate, experimenting with what you're eating for breakfast and what you're not eating for breakfast.   Mason Taylor:  Before we move on to movement, have you got any good, real surface ... just throw out some lines for people in terms of basic what you think might be beneficial for people in terms of what they'll have for breakfast, what particular macro nutrients would be beneficial for people at different times?   Steph Gaudreau:  Again, I think there's going to come a point where you have to honor what tastes good to you, what feels good in your body, et cetera. Caveat, I see a lot of people who are struggling with blood sugar regulation. Myself, I dealt with this for many, many years where I essentially had reactive hypoglycemia which would be my blood sugar would crash out and I would feel ... Again, how are you feeling in your body? My palms would get sweaty. My heart would get racing. I would feel super lightheaded. Sometimes I would come close to passing out. My vision would narrow. I would eat something with sugar in it, and I'd feel better, which is what happens with that stuff.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think for a lot of people that are having this blood sugar dysregulation going on, and I'm not even talking about anything with diabetes, but we're just not in a great blood sugar place. We're getting headaches, nausea, claminess. Our body feels really wacky. We're getting just hungry, angry. All those things are happening. I really like to recommend for people that they just try to keep the sweets out of breakfast. I don't mean fruit or sweet potato. In America, we eat dessert for breakfast as a culture. It's muffins and pastries. Again, I don't want to make those foods bad.   Mason Taylor:  I feel like most people listening to this podcast are probably not doing the pastries and those kinds of things. What about even, I'm sure for some people it might be good, in your experience though, having the full fruit breakfast and having the full smoothie bowl for breakfast? Is that something you see work generally or do you prefer something a little bit lower on the glycemic index?   Steph Gaudreau:  I like to recommend that if people are really specifically coming to you for recommendations for breakfast, I talk about including enough protein in breakfast. That's one of the places where, again, eating fruits and vegetables, wonderful. Not super dense in protein. Protein is the most satiating macro nutrient. Whether you're going to eat a denser plant-based protein or it's going to be eggs or it's going to be whatever you decide, is getting a decent whack of protein first thing in the morning because as the day goes on, it's harder and harder to make up a protein deficiency. There's just that. If you don't eat protein all day and then you get to dinner, you're not going to be able to make up generally a days' worth of protein for you in one meal. It's so satiating, you're going to get to a point where you tap out, especially if that protein is very lean.   Steph Gaudreau:  There that. I think getting enough nourishing fats in your breakfast is super important as well, so protein there obviously for the satiety but getting enough nourishing fats. Again, fat is really awesome because it helps us to absorb fat soluble vitamins. If you're eating that smoothie bowl, then you want to make sure that all those vitamins are in those fruits and vegetables. You want to be able to absorb those and the fat soluble vitamins that are in there. Very important.   Mason Taylor:  You just reminded me, when I was in my real sugar head perspective, I never went down the route of acai bowls. Although I respect them, I always just have a little bit of a joke about acai bowls. When I was doing my sugary and colder bowls in the morning, what I eventually started doing is pouring olive oil all over it. I know that might seem disgusting for some people, but when you mix it in, it can mix quite well and doesn't congeal quite as much or, of course, just the coconut fat even though that's cooling in its own right. I just thought I'd bring that up, just a little bit of a fat.   Mason Taylor:  I'm someone that's just always ... Sorry, I'll let you go. I'm sorry to hijack here. I'm generally just doing a tonic with my mushrooms and some fats in the morning. A couple of times a year, especially as I've become more and more comfortable with eating meat, I was vegetarian, pretty much vegan for so many years, it's been hard for me to wrap my head around getting back into it, whereas, I'm at the point now where I'm really diving in. This is what I want you hear, your people, a layperson would see as extreme of what you're doing. I'm at that point where I'm order a whole deer that is going to be hunted out in the Byron Bay hinterland for myself. Eventually I'll get there out and do it myself so I can prove that I'm not soft.   Mason Taylor:  Every now and then I do experiment with a big hunk of meat in the morning for breakfast, just every now and then. I remember when I started doing that, that cracked me out of my dogma. I can't do it a lot. Is that something you gravitate towards yourself? Do you do much meat? I don't know if I just assumed with that?   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah. I feel pretty good when I am including some kind of meat-based protein in the morning for me personally. I think the one thing I would say there is there's an interesting connection between certain types of protein. Certainly there are plant-based proteins that are higher in tryptophan as well. I think walnuts is one of them for a plant-based source of tryptophan. Tryptophan is an amino acid that is important in the production of serotonin.   Mason Taylor:  I think a cow as well. I always use it as a justification for my hot chocolate.   Steph Gaudreau:  Exactly. Tryptophan important in producing serotonin. Most of the serotonin in our body is made in our gut, which by the way is really important to mention because if you don't have great gut health, then we may not be making ... There's that gut-mood connection yet again.   Steph Gaudreau:  There serotonin that we make also then goes on later to some of it to be made into melatonin which helps us sleep. I like to just mention that to people. Get enough tryptophan-based protein or protein with tryptophan in the morning especially so you can go on through the day and make that serotonin which then in the evening makes melatonin that helps you to sleep.   Steph Gaudreau:  Quickly going back to fats, and I had one more thing that I wanted to add. Fats also help the stomach contents to empty slower. Oftentimes when people are eating a more fruit-based breakfast or a smoothie or an acai bowl or something like that, it's already partially digested because it's liquified. Without the fats in there, it just goes out of your stomach so quickly. I just like people to check in. Are you hungry within an hour or two of eating? It could be the volume of food that you're eating but maybe chewing your food. Maybe chop up all that fruit and put it in a bowl and chomp on it will slow things down a little bit as well as adding the fat.   Steph Gaudreau:  For people that do have a more liquidy breakfast, if they are feeling super hungry within an hour or two, take something solid and sprinkle it over the top. It could be coconut flakes. It could be chopped up nuts. It could be cacao nibs. It could be whatever.   Mason Taylor:  Bee pollen.   Steph Gaudreau:  You have to chew it a little bit. That chewing, there's that connection between your mouth and your brain that's saying, "Okay, I'm chewing. I'm more satisfied," and also helps your body to up-regulate your digestive juices.   Steph Gaudreau:  I just mention those things because I think those are easy things that people can tweak if they're like, "Oh, I just ate an hour ago or I just had a smoothie an hour ago, and I'm ..." Check the protein content. Make sure you have enough fats in there and then add something you have to chew. Even on the top, slow yourself down a little bit and get that signaling going.   Mason Taylor:  Yeah. That's the bread and butter. That the chopped wood, carry water that you're never going to be able to come back, go away from.   Mason Taylor:  In terms of your diet, what are you working on at the moment. Maybe to a layperson with the same quite fringe, on your extremities, what are you working on?   Steph Gaudreau:  It's going to sound really silly probably. I've been going through the process of becoming a certified intuitive eating counselor. I'm almost done with that. I'm really interested in how these two things inform each other. How does intuitive eating as that framework and a process inform nutrition? There is nutrition. Nutrition is a principle of intuitive eating. When somebody has a really dysfunctional relationship with food, it's typically not the first thing you would do is give people nutrition guidelines because then they'll turn them into strict rules that cause problems.   Steph Gaudreau:  One of the things I've been working on for myself and just paying attention, not so much of an actual food although this does play into that, one of the things I've been doing is paying a little bit more attention to when I'm actually done eating. I did come from a family where it was like eat everything on your plate. I'm pretty good at gauging how hungry I am, but I've been trying to pay attention to that.   Steph Gaudreau:  Also, about six or eight months ago, I just had a download from the universe that I was supposed to figure out how to make sourdough bread. I cannot explain it. Bread is not something that has been really in my diet since 2010. Occasionally here and there I would eat it. I don't have celiac disease. I thought at one point I might have some intolerance to gluten. Over the years if I went out to eat and there was a good-looking bread ... that's a good-looking bread in that bread basket. Not Wonder bread but something that looked homemade or that looked really rustic, I'd think, "Okay, I'm going to have some of that." Over time, I realized that though I don't crave bread as part of my every single day foods, I really wanted to play around with making it.   Mason Taylor:  You want to be hard enough to kill that a piece of bread won't kill you.   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah. I think a challenge is the dogma. I came from a very standard American diet way of eating and then a very diet, diet way of eating, very low calorie and low fat. Eventually it went more to paleo and then, of course, wasn't eating any gluten really or any grains. That was very challenging to remember that is this dogma or is this just what feels better in my body?   Steph Gaudreau:  I'm sure there were some people that lost their minds when they saw an Instagram that I had made sourdough bread. I got sourdough starter from my friend. In the winter, it was nice to heat up the house and stuff. I was just making bread in the kitchen. Gosh, that was so cool. I've been bringing back more of that.   Steph Gaudreau:  Again, sometimes we'll go for weeks and I'm like, "It doesn't sound good to me." Then I'll be at the store and I'll see they have a sourdough bread from a company that's local. I'm like, "Yeah, that sounds good to me. I want to have that right now." It's been part of that challenging that am I following some rule from 10 years ago or whatever or am I listening to my body and thinking what sounds good to me right now?   Steph Gaudreau:  I think paleo was a necessary step for me to get away from low-fat, low-calorie, starve yourself dietland and really helped me so much. At the beginning, it was quite dogmatic how I approached it and then over the years became less and less so. Now I'm looking at bringing things back in. Here's the thing. Nutrition is important but it's only a small part of our health and how we feel.   Mason Taylor:  Yeah. We better step into our movement, but I'm allowing this conversation. That was the space between the stars here, being able to know that on your path, you might have frameworks that can very easily become dogma, but don't be scared of going through ... As you said, you had your low-fat more plant-based was it towards the beginning? No?   Steph Gaudreau:  No. It was just typical diet food.   Mason Taylor:  Oh, just typical diet. [crosstalk] You went straight into the paleo or a real common is just into the vegan and then of course we've got, it think it was about six months ago when it was really huge that vegan YouTubers were pouring their guts out about how they've actually been cheating and they've had to listen to their bodies and move on and then moving into something that's a little bit more paleo or primal. That's when everyone goes, right, okay, maybe this is the place. As you're saying, it's like, no, it's never the place. Stay there as long as you need but then move on and then you're going to have to burst that bubble again. Then you'll arrive at this point with enough experience. It's good to go and get that experience for yourself. It's not something you shouldn't do. Then you get to that point and you go, right.   Mason Taylor:  This is where I start looking at it. I'm like, where are all these cushy, a lot of us Westerners, not living off the land, living in a time when we're lucky enough to have some scientific and nutritional and ancient medicine inquiry that's going on for thousands of years. We've been able to amalgamate them to try and find what's optimal for our body. We are living in a time when we're quite cushioned. It's like, what's traditional but is traditional the best? Is all this new data showing us that something is more optimal. We're all just experimenting right now. It can be seemingly like there's infinite amount of choices. You want to try and find what's right, but you might need a little bit of experience in the arena.   Mason Taylor:  My advice there, and I don't know if you want to just give two cents before we move on, is to never ever proclaim that you've found it, especially if you're in the limelight and you're a professional and getting the vegan tattoo or getting the caveman tattoo or something like that. You will over-identify with that external persona that you've created and that dogma. When the bubble bursts, you're either going to have to hold on with rigidity and not evolve or it hits your psyche at that point.   Steph Gaudreau:  Can I give you a funny example that has nothing to do with what you're talking about but everything to do with what you're talking about?   Mason Taylor:  Yes.   Steph Gaudreau:  The car that I drive today I bought 15 years ago. At the time, I was super, super into racing downhill mountain bikes. That was my life. I loved it. I was going out and putting on the full-face helmet and the pads and going down a steep hill. That was my thing.   Steph Gaudreau:  At the time, I got a license plate that made reference to downhill mountain bikes. I feel like that was eight lifetimes ago. I haven't raced bikes for years. Because I still have my car, I still have that license plate. Every time I think, "Wow, okay, that was an interesting choice." It was something I was super into at the time and then life changes. Fifteen years is a long time. I'm reminded of that every time somebody asks what does your license plate mean. I'm like, "I used to be really into downhill mountain bikes when I got this car 15 years ago.   Mason Taylor:  At the same time, there's something nice and nostalgic about it. These little memories from our past I think are really sweet and nice that you have for identification, of course, [inaudible 00:49:58]. I feel like we've covered one of the Core 4.   Steph Gaudreau:  We don't have to cover them all. It's fine.   Mason Taylor:  I'm interested in at least hearing about them or maybe we've touched on some of the others. Moving body with intention, and I feel as well as that will bring in building strength. You do have a lot of practical workouts that are short, fun. You've traditionally had that focus there on strength which I can see is really evolved out.   Mason Taylor:  Let's talk about first moving with intention and what that means for you, and then because I feel a lot of the women and men listening to this, we talk a lot about herbalism. There is a lot of that moving with intention that we talk about, developing interperception, but we haven't really touched on so much the importance of strength training and the practicality of that if we are going to build this really powerful foundation for ourself to ideally just be able to live life the way that we intend to with our virtues coming forth. Could you touch on those things?   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah. I think there's many different meanings of move with intention, which is why I really liked that term a lot. I think on a really mental level, you can meditate while you're moving. Having right moving meditation, having a mind-body connection while you're moving and being very intentional in that, I think that's one way to see it.   Steph Gaudreau:  I think another way to see it is really, again, looking for that way in which movement fits into your life. I'm always caveating what I say, not from a place of I don't want anybody to get angry, but because I really think that this stuff is so ... when you apply it to your life, it's going to look different from when I apply it to my life.   Steph Gaudreau:  I'm really interested in having people, again, walk that path, get that framework but then looking for ways to incorporate movement in their life that's very intentional, that aligns with their life instead of trying to make it the other way around. Instead of trying to cram your life into this little box, how can we have this thing work in with our life right now?   Steph Gaudreau:  A perfect example would be let's say you are a mom and you have two kids, and you want to start moving again. You are driving, and this is real examples from my community, maybe you're driving 45 each minutes each way to a gym before work or even after work. You're spending an hour, an hour and a half in the car. It's a long class. You get home, you're really tired. Maybe you don't have a lot of time to be with the kids or you have to get up super early, so you're not getting very much sleep.   Steph Gaudreau:  I just would ask that person, is that really an intentional way of moving in your life? Is that really working for you? Is there something else you could do where you're still getting that benefit of movement, of strength training perhaps even, which is why in the book that whole level one program people can do in their house. I do it on my front porch.   Mason Taylor:  What does it entail, the level one?   Steph Gaudreau:  Getting some dumbbells and moving in a very small area is really what it is; functional movements. You don't need a gym. You can just do it with some very, very minimal equipment and get it done. Would that be more beneficial? Would that be more intentional for that particular woman's life? Would that buy her more time with her kids? Would that buy her more sleep while still getting that benefit?   Steph Gaudreau:  You could make the argument, what if community and connection is really important to her? It's a way to get out of the house and connect with other adults, which is why I don't have one single answer that works for everybody. I think that the more we can think about am I using movement as a way to enhance my life, to make my body feel better, to get the mental benefit, to get the mood benefit. I think all that stuff's really important rather than seeing exercise as a transactional relationship with how much energy I ate today, how much of it can I get rid of, which is where a lot of people do come at movement from.   Steph Gaudreau:  Because in our culture, and I can't speak for Australia, but I can speak for America and the United States, if you're exercising it's like, "Okay, great, we're going to praise you. This is really awesome," but a lot of people also have a dysfunctional relationship with movement.   Steph Gaudreau:  That's part of what I mean by move with intention on all of those different levels. Then also, can you just move more in your day? I hear people a lot, they're like, "Walking doesn't count." What?   Mason Taylor:  Of course it does. Yeah.   Steph Gaudreau:  Sometimes if that's what you can do because you've just had a baby and you're going to walk five minutes because that's literally all your body can handle, great. If your autoimmunity is clearing up and your RA is going crazy and walking is literally all you can do, that's wonderful. Please, let's not dump on that stuff. I think sometimes we get into that mode where if it's not the most extreme and the most intense and the most I-want-to-hurl-after-I'm-done, then it didn't count. That's not productive either.   Steph Gaudreau:  It's intentional to move in such a way that it works with your body. Again, that's a very intuitive process over time. I would hope that people can get to the point where they start to build that awareness of their body so that if they set out to do a workout that day and they do a little bit of a warm-up and everything in their body is like, "Please don't do this to me today. I am not into it. I'm not feeling it," we just respect that. We realize that it's okay to take a day off. It's okay to rest if that's what we're really needing or if we need to make it easier, if we need to take the intensity down because we had a really stressful day. That's all great.   Steph Gaudreau:  On the second part of your question about strength training and why it's really important, and this is just from a physiological, scientific level, a lot of us are not physical laboring anymore. We sit and ... I do the same thing, I sit at a computer all day. I'm not building camp. I'm not hauling water. I'm not child-carrying or any of that stuff. A lot of us are quite sedentary. When the human condition is biological being preserve energy as well, but we're not getting any of that other stimulus.   Steph Gaudreau:  When we turn around 30, we start to lose muscle mass. We start to lose bone density. All these things are really, really important especially as we get older. If you're past 30 and you're like, "I haven't started," that's okay. It's not too late.   Steph Gaudreau:  I love on Facebook, this is one of the great things about Facebook, I always see these senior citizens who are doing stuff. They're out running races or they're lifting something or they're carrying something heavy. I'm just like, "Damn, that's awesome. I want to be able to do that." It proves the point that it's never too late. Muscle is really important. It's like an important reserve for our bodies. If we're sick, if we're injured, we hopefully can draw on that source of amino acids to actually get us through, which is really important, balance, coordination.   Steph Gaudreau:  I'll be honest, for a lot of women, there's something very freeing about doing very simple things that they couldn't do before. I'm not somebody who's like, "We should never ask for help. We should be able to do everything ..." Asking for help is totally fine, but there's something really powerful about, hey, I couldn't lift this thing, and I lifted it on my own, or I could put the suitcase in the overhead bin and I did it myself and I couldn't do it before, or I can carry my kids without back pain, stuff like that. It's very functional type movement.   Steph Gaudreau:  That's really what I teach in the book. Bicep curls are wonderful if you want to look like you have guns. That's great. That's fine. I don't take that away from anybody. I'm really interested in helping people build better functional ranges of motion so they can just live an easier life with moving things and getting things, carrying things around, carry all the groceries in one trip, whatever it is you want to do, but feeling better in your body, less pain, feeling more capable [crosstalk 00:57:53].   Mason Taylor:  There's a couple of things there. I just want to make sure we don't go too far past them. I feel like it's so core to this conversation. The reason we get swept up, what I've observed in ambiguous goals when it comes to strength, movement and of course with diet, weight loss, bulking, whatever it is is because the goals are based externally over them within that system.   Mason Taylor:  Now, this is, of course, a very obvious one, but I feel in our Western society and especially with modern women and men and everyone in between and beyond, that if you can have 20% in that external goal and then 80% based in observing these little things like you've just watched: am in pain less, am I able to get down on the ground and off the ground with a little bit more ease and a little less pain, can I pick that thing up myself or without that stress on my shoulder girdle or with less tension through my shoulder.   Mason Taylor:  These things, it's because they're not as, in an identity based way, they're not quite as gratifying as being able to hit 20 curls versus 10, yet exponentially the benefits multiply in 10 years, 20 years, 30, 40, 50 years. That level of basically how do I do all these things without the dogma? How do I get out of this mindset of I've been focused on my body image or shaming myself or whatever these kinds of things. We all have it.   Mason Taylor:  That, what you were just saying, I feel like it's so simple and it's always in front of our face and seemingly too easy. The potency in just focusing on those little things that matter, it's a skill to develop the noticing of that. It's something we need to continue to develop and observe in ourselves, but it is a gateway towards creating that liberation from our mental constructs on body imaging and being dominated by our seemingly vain goals or having some of them there is fun. [crosstalk]   Steph Gaudreau:  Yeah, for sure. I think for a lot of women, again, exercise is seen as very either transitional; I need to burn X many calories because I ate this thing or a very aesthetic based pursuit, which again, if you're somebody who love bodybuilding and that's your thing, that's cool. I think the majority of people that are listening to this and that I'm talking to are not in that camp. This was my thing too was I had to make my body look a very specific way by just trying to shape everything or try to lose a s

Ready to go to the next level in your evangelism (and apologetics and biblical worldview? Sign up for the Think Update, a brief, weekly email with tools and tips to help you explain, share and defend your Christian faith, delivered straight to your inbox. Sign up right here. When you think about sharing your faith, what comes to your mind? Do you think about the look on the other person’s face? What is that expression? Is it happy? Angry? Maybe a little confused? Do you think about the scary proposition of offending someone? Or maybe you envision yourself getting off to a great start, and then dwindling into awkwardness as you run out of things to say, or answers to your friend’s objections? Maybe you’ve experienced a similar situation… or maybe the fear of it has kept you from sharing your faith. Today I want to share some thoughts that come directly from a course called Cojourners. This is a curriculum developed by the Church Movements team, which I’ve been trained in, and which I’ve adapted for the Think Institute. Actually I’m currently teaching a Cojourners class at Midwest Bible Church here in Chicago. Specifically, I want to talk about the subject of evangelism in some broad strokes… and I want to then zero in on one important concept: Why it's so hard to share your faith. Then I'll share with you three simple steps you can take to become more evangelistic. Get the full show notes at http://thethink.institute. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/the-think-podcast/message

Modern Brazilian jazz monster Edu Ribeiro demonstrates how to take the samba school to the drum kit.For full-length drum lessons with Edu Ribeiro, check out https://www.openstudiojazz.com/brazilian-jazz-drumming========================================================Hi, I am Edu Ribeiro and welcome to Two Minute Jazz. Today, we are going to talk about samba. Bringing the lines of the percussion from the drum set, we have three special lines to put together here.The first one is the most important for the samba, and that's the surdo that keeps the time for everybody. And the surdo can be very simple, or it could be a little syncopated, but it's going to be hard to imitate with the bass drum. So it could be played less syncopated.The other instrument is the tambourine, the small instrument that people play in the school of samba. But we have a special clav like that. I'm going to try to put together the tambourine and the bass drum imitating the surdo.And another one that I'm going to play is the pandeiro that people play with two hands. I'm going to try to play all the sixteenth notes with my right hand on my hi-hat. Then I'll try to put it all together.There is another instrument called the agogô. I'm going to try to imitate two songs with my tom and my floor tom.Okay, happy practicing and see you next time!========================================================Website: https://www.openstudiojazz.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/HeyOpenStudioInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/heyopenstudioTwitter: https://twitter.com/HeyOpenStudio See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I forgot to tell you I got to be on the SMR Podcast last week and this week I got to be a guest on Daily Tech News Show. But things weren't all rosy on DTNS as my computer woes continued. I'll walk you through what went wrong this week, how Steve and I diagnosed the problems and how we're over 60% sure we found the root cause. Then I'll tell you about my new joy - the clipboard manager Copy’em Paste. Bart Busschots is back with a marathon and awesome segment of Security Bits. Allison on SMR Podcast Allison on DTNS Continuing Mac Processor Problem - Today's Theory Copy’em Paste – I'm in Love with a Clipboard Manager Security Bits – 8 September 2019 allison@podfeet.com podfeet.com/patreon podfeet.com/slack podfeet.com/facebook podfeet.com/amazon

I spent so many years chasing a smaller body, and when I finally got there, I was the least happy I’ve been in my whole life. I thought, "If I can just get a little bit leaner... THEN I'll finally get (the job, the guy, the friends, the attention)" But I quickly realized the body I wanted wouldn't give me the LIFE I wanted: a life that doesn't revolve around being obsessed with food and my body. A life that's full of love, joy, happiness, meaningful relationships, and a career I love. Once I gave up the body and food obsession, that's what I finally found - and I hope this podcast helps you do the same! 8-week nutrition mentorship: juliebooher.com/coach Instagram: @healthnutjulie

Today I'm talking all about the stories we tell ourselves and offering you three tools that you can use to change them. I'll talk a bit about how our thoughts and feelings create our actions, which creates a feedback loop that can keep us stuck in negativity or help us break through our old stories. Then I'll share those three tools with you - CBT, thought logging, and mindfulness - and describe how each one can help you learn to observe your thoughts and stories, rather than immediately believing & reacting to them. Get full show notes and more information here: https://nicolesymcox.com/5

It's a chill week over here so let's talk about new music from Beyoncé, Chance the Rapper and Big Sean. Then I'll share with you my weekend festivities and my thoughts on out of touch political policies. Note: Something I failed to mention is that Pell grants are grants... not loans. That means they don’t need to be repaid. If the proposal is referring to loans that Pell Grant recipients may have taken out in addition to receiving Pell Grants, then the proposal makes more sense. But still... nah. Follow the Instagram: https://bit.ly/2Qsa0Ai Follow the Twitter: https://bit.ly/2Tv31Zp Don't forget to share this episode with your auntie, cousin, friends and 'nem. #carefreeandblackdiaries --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/carefreenblkdiaries/support

Once again I'll be going over some of the latest UFO news. Then I'll talk about UFO sightings from 2019.

I can't thank Bart and Allister enough for their help with the shows while we were vacationing in Chile. You may have received a version of Allister's show that had the oddest digital honking noise on Sandy's review - I'll explain in this show what we think happened. Then I'll answer a dumb question about how to copy and then paste plain text in iOS. I'll go through a rather fun "Tech in Travel" segment about how we did our tech on the trip. From diagramming via draw.io to keeping my camera safe from water to Google Fi. Then Bart is back with a segment of Security Bits that really needed the palate cleanser at the end! What Caused that Digital Honk? CCATP #601 – Dr. Maryanne Garry on Why Science is Broken CCATP #602 - Bart Busschots on PBS 81 of X – The JavaScript Promise Utilities Dumb Question Corner - How to Copy/Paste Plain Text on iOS? Tech on Travel – Chile Eclipse Security Bits – 14 July 2019 allison@podfeet.com podfeet.com/patreon podfeet.com/slack podfeet.com/facebook podfeet.com/amazon

Find Lesson Planning for Language TeachersPrinciples of Task Design (With Dave Weller) - TranscriptionRoss Thorburn: Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. Today, our favorite guest is with us, Dave Weller.Dave Weller: Hurrah!Ross: [laughs] Today, Dave and I are going to talk a bit about Task Design. Before we jump into that, why is Task Design useful or important, or worth thinking about?Dave: Good question. Mainly because when we first become teachers or, at least, I know when I did, I just ran with whatever activities were suggested to me, or games that other teachers have worked very well to get the students engaged and motivated.It was only later [laughs] that I started to question, "Hang on, are my students actually learning anything?" Then shamefully, I didn't think about that soon enough.Dave: That's when you start to realize that, is what I'm doing actually helping the learners, or is it just using time. That's where Task Design pops up, and I think, "OK, the way I run my activity, the way I've structured my activity, it can make a huge difference to what students think about, the language they use, and the practice they get."Ross: There's also maybe something about evaluating what you're already doing there, isn't there? That first step that you mentioned maybe is looking at, "What am I doing now? How good is it?" Maybe before I start designing anything else.Today, we're going to run through Dave's six top tips for ways to design tasks. We're going to look at aims, gaps, load, materials, thinking, and rehearsal. Tell us the first tip tasks should support aims.Dave: When you think about the task, think about what language is it likely to get students to produce. Is that the same as your target language? Often, especially if you're just looking for an activity or a game to fill time, you start running that activity, and the language that comes out of the student's mouth is very different.I'm using different grammar, different lexis, different from maybe that you were expecting. Sure, that is practice, but it might be something they already know really well. They default to something that they are confident using. It's not pushing to use things they're not comfortable with. Therefore, growing or getting better at the language doesn't really happen.Ross: I think as well this, it's maybe when you're lesson planning, it can also be worth thinking about changing your aim to reflect the task as opposed to just changing the task to reflect the aim. A lot of people maybe tend to start off with the aim and work forward from that. It's like forward planning, whereas, something I sometimes encourage people to do is reverse planning.Starting at the end of the class, what's a great task that you think is going to be useful for the students, and then trying to make sure that your aim, and everything you teach matches the task.Dave: If you have the luxury of doing that, that's almost the best way to do, but it depends where you're working and the context you're in. Some schools are quite strict about the syllabus they're using, or the course book you have to follow. You have to tick off certain grammar points or sets of vocabulary.If you would just let me free a context where maybe a class works, just like an English corner, then, sure, coming up with an activity you know will work well for that group and working backwards from that is freer.Ross: Again, maybe as well with that aim, it's easier practically to add things to it than to take things away from it. You're probably less likely to get a complaint if you've taught an extra few things that have gone beyond what's in the syllabus. The issue is usually when you cut things from it.Dave: Yes, totally.Ross: The next step is tasks need a gap. What's a gap, for those unfamiliar?Dave: [laughs] It doesn't mean you just stop half‑way through, and you freeze.[laughter]Dave: If there's no input for five minutes at all, you just have to take your little nap.[laughter]Ross: It's the same as a break.Dave: Yeah, I wish. Now, surprisingly, I don't see much written about this. There's an author, Prabhu, and he mentioned that in any type of communication, there are gaps. The three are the information gaps, where perhaps you and I have different information about subjects.Maybe, I want to get to the train station, and you know the way, and I don't. Then, there might be a reasoning gap. Perhaps we all have the same information, but we're trying how to use that information to achieve an objective.For example, planning a night out or choosing where to go on holiday. We're using our logic and our reason to pick the best option, and we can do that collaboratively.The last gap is an opinion gap, where students would agree or disagree with each other based on their personal preferences. Debates are a good example.Ross: I choose a new picture for the classroom or something like that, and here's a choice, which ones do you like, and justify it, why, that kind of thing.Dave: Yes. Exactly.Ross: I've also seen people add to this experience gaps or getting people to talk about what they personally have experienced in their own lives, and how that might be different between students and [inaudible 4:39] to that.Dave: For me, a lot of that could fall under the information gap because you're just talking about life experience, and I have that, and you don't. That's really good in more adult classes if you have a nice mix of students with different experience in the classroom.Ross: Do you want to talk about this for young learners for a second? Because I think with these, it's easier to think of examples for adults than for kids. For kids, we're talking about, for example, what might be a reasoning gap for young learners that would work?Dave: Sure. I'll start with the information gap. That could be, you give pairs different pictures. Student A has a picture of a toy or a character, and person B has a blank piece of paper. They're taking turns to describe that character to them, and then they got to draw it. Then I'll [inaudible 5:26] get, "Sky" and they've got a big head, they've got small eyes, or whatever it might be.Ross: [inaudible 5:31].[laughter]Dave: Yes. No hair.[laughter]Ross: It is something that is worth talking about is this classroom management aspect. When I see this going wrong, a lot of the time, someone's had this idea that student A will have this information, student B will not, and they have to talk, but what just ends up happening...Say, if it's a running dictation that the student whose gone outside to look at the picture, we detect just ends up writing the answer, or are going to find someone who activity...I've got my sheet with...Find someone who can speak more than two languages, and then I just give you the pen. Tell you to write your name in there.I've also seen one where students have to find a way from A to B on a map, but these students show each other the map, so there's no gap there. With that, it's really worth thinking about how it's actually going to play out in the reality of the classroom. How, as a teacher, are you going to make sure that students don't just take the short‑cut of showing the other person the information?Dave: Oh, absolutely. An example, just stay with the A and B describing pictures to each other, I might line mapping roads. We'll have them get one road to [inaudible 6:36] and face the other road, and fixed seats somewhere. They will have to visibly hold up their paper in front of them.As a teacher, you can immediately see if someone's not doing what you've asked them to do, and it's a point of frown on them, whatever your behavior management system is.Ross: Sure.Dave: Or even making a favorite toy, or you're going to have to design a new character when you've watched a very short clip of a monster movie, a cartoon monster, and they have to make you a monster. You give them a certain set of features.Like, you can choose from these body parts. There's a selection of ears and eyes, your legs and arms, and body types, and then they have to put them together to create the scariest monster they can.Ross: I love those. One of the problems you often get with that is that teachers assume that, because I've taught, say, body parts, that that type of task is going to work really well. What I think the actual language you get in a task like that is like, "No, I disagree. I want this one. This is better. I don't like that."I think often with those, that's something that's really worth thinking about. Like what is the language that's going to come up? Because, really probably a lot of time what you're doing is just pointing to something and say, "I want this one," or "I like that one."Dave: Sure. The trick is, again, that's just shouldn't be the main task. That should be the pre‑task almost. Actually, it's really nice. It's another one of the criteria for task design, which is, think about or consider what students are going to think about.Cognitive psychology does show us that what students think about, they will remember. There's a really nice quote that memories erases your thought. You probably heard that on here before.Ross: No, actually I think that will be the first time, but Daniel Willingham, right?Dave: Yes, from his book, "Why Don't Students Like School?" If students are over‑excited, if the task is too stimulating, I always revert to the first language, especially young learners, and start using first language to complete the task.Ross: Because almost with kids there's this maybe lack of being able to self‑regulate in both your own behavior, but I guess, also in what language you're going to use. If you've got them dialed up to 11 on the excitements scale, then the chance that you're going to be able to decide to use your second language to do this thing is pretty unlikely.Dave: Exactly. Yes.Ross: Taking that also links back to what you're saying at the very beginning, that, as a new teacher or as new teachers, I think a lot of us assume that if the students are smiling and having fun and they're excited, then it's a great class, but maybe sometimes dialing that back a bit is actually beneficial.Dave: Absolutely. The opposite is entirely true, as well. If they're bored, I'll be talking in the first language but probably off topic.Ross: It's some sweet spot in the middle [laughs] between utter boredom and complete excitement.Dave: Yeah, exactly. That thing, that example you gave of, if they are making or creating something, maybe drawing or making something out of Play‑Doh, or whatever they're doing, they won't be using the language to do that. They'd taken a product of that task and then using it to use the language that you want to. That's where the learning's going to happen.Ross: Sorry to start jumping around there, but I think this relates to your last point of mentally rehearsing the tasks and thinking about like, what is actually physically going to happen here? I think that's one example.Another one is maybe, we took the farm animals and then for the last hour people are going to make their own farm, but, of course, what language are you using there? You're probably saying things like, "Can I have a red pencil, please?" Or, "Please, pass me the scissors," which is completely unrelated to the farm animals. The students won't be thinking about that at all.Dave: Exactly. It's so simple to avoid that by very quickly putting yourself in the student's shoes and thinking, what language do I need to use to complete this task?Ross: To take us back maybe to a minute if we're teaching adults. I think if it's a very high stakes class, if you're being observed for something that's really, really important, and you've got a task. You can always just find maybe two or three students wandering around the school and trying to do the task within 15 minutes.Not the students that will be in your class later, but just to see how actually it pans out, or just turn around to the person next to you in the teacher's room and go, "Can you do this with me for two minutes?"Dave: Jump out from behind and photocopy it.[laughter]Dave: I need your help with a task.Ross: Yes, covering this farm.[laughter]Ross: How about going back to number three then, cognitive load? That's a term that certainly I was not familiar with until relatively recently. What's cognitive load?Dave: Cognitive load is the challenge of the task itself. How difficult will learners find it? If you are expecting to use language that is far above what they can do, they'll look at the task or start to think about, realize it's well beyond what they can do, and you'll see engagement just drop like a stone.Again, the idea of picking a sweet spot between something that they're able to do with help, and this is almost like scaffolding of all the idea of what they can do. [inaudible 11:20] what I can do with help today, they'll be able to do without help tomorrow.Ross: I guess, here, as well, we're not just talking about necessarily how difficult the language is, but we might be thinking about how cognitively tough the task is. Earlier, for example, we were talking about information gaps, reasoning gaps, and opinion gaps.Maybe a reasoning gap where you've got this much money, these are some different options, these are some different preferences of people in the groups. That sounds like there's going to be a lot more thinking going on there from the students than an information gap where you described...[crosstalk]Ross: Right. When that happens, maybe it's worth thinking about how the processing power and the student's brain is going to be used to be maybe more thinking about the problem rather than for producing language.You might get less accuracy and less fluency. Just like me on this podcast, I stumble over words when I'm trying to explain a difficult concept.[crosstalk]Dave: That happens to all of us, right? You can see when someone's very familiar with the topic because they're fluent, they're calm, they're confident. They're not using discourse markers like, "um," "uh," and so on. When we're trying to think about how best to explain it, we slow down, we stumble over our words.Another thing that is very worth mentioning is that this level of challenge can also apply to the incidental language in class, like teachers giving instructions. I've observed classes where the students are frazzled by the time they get to the task, because the teacher speaks very quickly, they're not creating their language appropriately for the level.The students are leaning forward, trying to follow the thread of the teacher, and then they finish, they have to clarify with their friends next to them. "Did she say this?" "Did she say that?" Then by the time they get to the task, "I've just spent five minutes of intensive listening practice," and now you can get a listening to do that.Ross: It's almost like what students will think about. It sounds like in your example there they were thinking about what on earth could the instructions be rather than what was in the lesson.[laughter]Ross: Well, Dave, thanks for joining us. All of those tips were from just one tiny part of one chapter in "Lesson Planning for Language Teachers ‑‑ Evidence‑Based Techniques for Busy Teachers" by our very own, Dave Weller. Dave, where can people get a hold of it?Dave: Thanks to the plug, Ross. This is a brand new book for me. You can find it on Amazon as an e‑book or a paperback. Planning should support learning. It should use evidence‑based best practices, and it shouldn't take long.[laughter]Dave: Yeah. I think that's the key point. With those principles in mind, I've created 9 or 10 chapters in the book using current research, tested techniques so teachers can end up planning better, faster, and with less stress.Ross: Great. All right. Dave, thanks for joining us.Dave: It's been a pleasure.

Member Andrew Peacock Shares House Academy Success Stories (HA 012) Steven Butala:                   Steve and Jill here. Jill DeWit:                            Hi. Steven Butala:                   Welcome to The Land Academy Show, entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill DeWit:                            And I'm Jill DeWit, broadcasting from sunny Southern California. Steven Butala:                   Today, Jill and I speak with member Andrew Peacock to find out how he's using Land Academy to his success. I'll tell you, we just spoke with him early, a little pre-show discussion, and sounds like this show might be a little bit more appropriate for House Academy. Jill DeWit:                            I know. This is very cool. Steven Butala:                   We'll see. This might be a House Academy Show. Jill DeWit:                            I love it. Steven Butala:                   Tell us please, again, Andrew, when you started with us and how it's been going for you. Andrew Peacock:             Sure, yeah. I started with you guys November of 2016 and I kind of fumbled around a little bit and started sending out mailers. I actually received the first I think ... Jill, you were doing a promotion. Get a free lot. I got a lot in Cochise County and it was awesome. I actually put it right up there on eBay. I did a little eBay auction and I sold it for I think it was 950 bucks and it was for me proof of concept. It was that thing where it's literally you hear this, we're going to sell land. We're going to flip land. I've never heard of it before. For me, that was the thing that grabbed me. I've always been an entrepreneur from the start. I never really knew what it was. Actually I play professional football. A lot of those guys in the locker room, they were real estate investors. A guy by the name of [Ryan Brolls 00:01:39] handed me that little purple book, I Risk That, Pore That. It literally opened my eyes. Andrew Peacock:             It put a name to what I felt like I was. I started searching for little things I can do on the side. I came by another land podcast. We won't speak of his name. I know that's a joke that's been going on for forever. It wasn't complete for me. It didn't have all the things I needed. I just felt like it wasn't it for me. I kept searching, found you guys. Literally just from the time I started listening to the podcast, it was it. I knew I was home. This is funny because I think Jill a couple podcasts back you were talking about the transition of your microphones and your technology and all this stuff you guys are using. I've heard all of it from the start, from the finish. I definitely related with that. Jill DeWit:                            You could hear the firetrucks in the background. Andrew Peacock:             Oh yeah. I remember that. It was funny. After the football transitioned to pharmaceutical sales. If you know that job, you're literally in the car for 400 miles a day. I was introduced to podcasts. I literally self taught myself everything I needed to know. With that early technology, I would have to adjust the volume a little bit. Steven Butala:                   You know what? I'm sorry. Andrew Peacock:             Oh no, you're fine. Steven Butala:                   I take personal responsibility for that. Right around show, I don't know, 998, we figured out the technology. Andrew Peacock:             It's all right. That's all right. I listen to every single show. It was that self taught education through you guys, your podcast. I did it part time. The entire pharmaceutical, this was 2017. I did part time land and then I woke up around the 4:30 range. I worked on the land for about four hours, get in the car, drive, come back home, 4:00 PM, work until 8:00 PM on land. That's just what you have to do. That slowly took over the pharmaceutical salary. I made the leap into the houses. Literally it's the same concept. We're flipping properties. It doesn't matter the asset or vehicle. For me, I remember ... sorry. I was about to call you Jack. Steve now ... Steven Butala:                   It's okay. Jill DeWit:                            He's evolved. Andrew Peacock:             You used to talk a lot about you can do this with boats, you can do it with planes, you can do it with pretty much any asset class. As long as they're recorded at the county. That's all the data we need. We're data geeks over here. I jumped in and tried it at houses, the first mailers sucked but I slowly learned over time, slowly learned how to price. It's awesome now. Been in it full time, been in it full time since February of last year. Steven Butala:                   How many deals have you done just with whatever you're comfortable sharing? As much detail. Andrew Peacock:             Yeah, I'm transparent in numbers. I actually did this entire breakdown yesterday before the podcast. This year so far I've done 16 deals. I'm at an average profit margin of 14 thousand per deal. That's we're right at 228 thousand revenue. Jill DeWit:                            That's awesome. Andrew Peacock:             As far as- Steven Butala:                   That's fantastic. Andrew Peacock:             Oh yeah. It's awesome. I'm slowly transitioning new things as far as marketing avenues. I'm trying out cold calling. I'm trying out all these other things. This is all just from letters. The beautiful number that I love to see, the cost per deal. This includes literally money penny is my call center service. Just like [inaudible 00:05:34]. Real quest data and the actual mailers. This includes all that. 1200 bucks per deal to make 14 grand. That's, in my eyes, pretty awesome. As far as letters sent, I've sent out about 14 thousand letters so far. It takes 900 ... well, 899 letters to get a deal. Steven Butala:                   899? Jill DeWit:                            That's awesome. Andrew Peacock:             899 so far this year. Steven Butala:                   We're at like 1800. Andrew Peacock:             Oh really? Steven Butala:                   Yeah. Jill DeWit:                            Houses, this is houses too? Andrew Peacock:             Oh yeah, yeah. You guys are in multiple markets, right? Jill DeWit:                            Yeah. Steven Butala:                   Yeah. Andrew Peacock:             I'm just focused here. I'm in North Carolina so I'm focused in the Mecklenburg, Charlotte area and surrounding area. I'm digging these streets pretty hard as far as recognizing the price per square foot on each one of these streets. All that stuff. I don't know. I'm assuming it's just from doing it over time. It's just getting better and better. Jill DeWit:                            That is so good. Steven Butala:                   You obviously got this figured and are a very bright guy. There's no way you could've played on the line in football. What position did you play? Andrew Peacock:             I played receiver. I actually played for the Detroit Lions. I know you're from Detroit over there. I played, it was a short stint. It was a year and a half. I was in a practice spot and all that stuff. It was a pleasant experience. I'm so glad to be making this type of money, not banging my head every day. Jill DeWit:                            Literally. Steven Butala:                   Did you have to live in Detroit while you were playing there? Andrew Peacock:             Yeah. We stayed in Dearborn. That's where the practice facility was. Literally we would only go in Detroit when it was game day. We stayed in Dearborn. Steven Butala:                   I'm from Detroit. I had to spin that sign there. Andrew Peacock:             Dearborn wasn't bad at all. I know there's a lot of change going on in Detroit too, by the way. All that stuff. I heard it's a lot of money going in there. It was a pleasant experience. Steven Butala:                   You're killing it with the houses. You did 14 deals so far this year. You're at, you said 14 right? Andrew Peacock:             16, 16. Steven Butala:                   Okay. Oh 16 with 14 thousand profit. What's next? I mean are you going to just increase the amount of deals that you're doing? Are you comfortable with that number? What's going to happen next? Andrew Peacock:             No. I'm definitely ... Steven Butala:                   Complete control over this. Andrew Peacock:             Sure. For me, as I mentioned before, I'm entering a different kind of marketing avenue. Just trying it out. I have three, four time cold callers now. They're literally taught on a script basis. This way I can remove myself from that arena as far as the market. I can also still send letters. I'm literally just trying my hardest to increase the number of leads. As you guys talk in houses, it's all about your buyers list. It's all about numbers as far as price per square foot, all that stuff. I know pretty much within 30 seconds if it's a deal or not. Now it's just about how do we increase the number of these leads? Buyers are fine, I don't need to increase that point. I'm also entering ... and just to back up a little bit. Andrew Peacock:             Most of these have been assignments. For listeners, I don't know if you guys know or not. An assignment is simply assigning your place on that contract to your end buyer for a fee. For an example, if I get a property on a contract for a hundred grand, I sell it to my buyer for 110. He pays me ten thousand dollar assignment fee. Those have been the meat and potatoes for me so far. Recently I've actually been closing on some of these deals and throwing them right up there on the MLS. It takes a specific house for that though. There's a perfect avatar. It has to only need cosmetic work. You have to be able to attract to the end buyer, that type of thing. Those, I'm averaging right around 32 thousand for those. Steven Butala:                   That's an experience too. We double. Our return is double when we close on it. Andrew Peacock:             Oh yeah. Yeah. My end goal I would say. I love what Justin is doing with plumb. I just think all the time, if we can generate this amount of leads and houses, and come together as a group or whatever it may be. It doesn't even have to be a group. Come together and just literally have a lot of money sitting on the side to close on these things and listen on MLS. From the ones that I've done so far, I throw them on MLS. We get over our ask in three days. They're gone. I'm not doing anything to these. These are not ... I think you guys have done a couple where you put five, ten grand into it and still got ... whatever it may sit a little bit. These are literally ones that you're talking ten dollars a square foot work or rehab. That's I would say the next thing for me. Jill DeWit:                            That's awesome. Steven Butala:                   How do you use your cold callers? Do they follow up on the mailers or do they just open the phone book and go? How do you use them? Andrew Peacock:             The same list I download from real quest, I take that list. We hit these people twice. We hit them with the letters. Then we also hit them ... we get that list skip traced. I have a skip tracing service. By the way, I'm a part of another group as well, cold calling group. I truly believe in joining groups when I spark up a different idea. I joined that group and they provided a script, kind of what you guys do just with cold calling. My cold callers, they have to dial 400 numbers a day. We're right around a 10% contact rate, which is right where you want to be. If they hit their goals, which is one deal a week, then they get an extra bonus at the end. Literally once I download the list for letters, I skip trace that list and send it to my cold callers. Jill DeWit:                            Cool. Have you really seen the benefit? Is it a script like hey I sent you a letter a week ago, just following up, are you interested in selling? Do you think it's made a difference? Andrew Peacock:             It's definitely made a difference. The approach from there end is different. We don't mention the letter. We literally are going from a different angle. We're contacting them as if we're investors in the area, whatever it may be. We don't mention anything about the letter. We want to hit these individuals from just a different point. The letter may not have attracted to them. Maybe they're more comfortable talking on the phone. Whatever it may be. Jill DeWit:                            That's cool. Andrew Peacock:             It's just that opportunity to squeeze out every possible deal in this area. Steven Butala:                   I'm heavily researching skip tracing now because I think it's a huge added benefit for House Academy members. We haven't tested it yet, but we're about to like in a week. This is very timely. In fact, by the time this airs, we will have tried it all ready. Andrew Peacock:             For sure. Steven Butala:                   Have you considered texting? Andrew Peacock:             Yeah. I haven't tried it. I'm not sure if you guys have heard a company called [inaudible 00:12:55]. Very, very efficient, very interesting concept. The cold calling group that I joined there actually teaching on [inaudible 00:13:06] as well. You can literally hire somebody to do that entire thing. That's just another different approach. We have the cold calling, we have the letters, we have banded signs, we have Facebook ads. All this stuff. Steven Butala:                   That's it. Andrew Peacock:             The text blast is literally something that I've never even ... I don't think anybody has ever heard of or touched, or whatever. From what I hear, it's very, very effective. It's a lot more effective than cold calling. It's that maybe before it's time or maybe right when it needs to be done. Who knows? Jill DeWit:                            Kind of like it for a couple reasons. One: it's like a little less invasive. Andrew Peacock:             Sure. Jill DeWit:                            Number two: you're actually, this is one of the main focus of our live event this fall. It's technology. Steve's already working on the next phase of what we all could be doing. This is just part, a little piece of what we're going to be sharing as we spend some more time testing, and figuring some of it out ourselves. Andrew Peacock:             For sure. For sure. Jill DeWit:                            That's really cool. I had a couple notes too. I love that. To say you obviously like ... one of the things that when people find us, they think they're all worried about the sales part. You're all like, selling is easy. Isn't that funny? You have to get in, right? Andrew Peacock:             Oh yeah. Jill DeWit:                            You have to get in and do this and learn it. When you're selling something for a lot less than what it's worth, sales really are easy. People don't believe that. Andrew Peacock:             It's crazy easy. I know you guys used to talk about that all the time. Literally it's the once I can get the deal, that's the ... I know it's going to sell. Literally I know it's going to sell right when I get it because, you know. We've seen enough parcels, we've seen enough houses. I've walked enough houses. Literally know right then if I can get it for that price point, it's going to sell. I talked to a lot of individuals. That's the fear among. One of the questions I get the most is, how'd you get your buyer's list? How long did it take for you to build that? Literally Charlotte has one of the best Facebook groups that I've seen as far as real estate. I think there's five thousand members or whatever it may be. If you're a newbie and you find a great deal. You throw it up on Facebook. That Facebook group is gone in a second. Andrew Peacock:             I don't think anyone should be worried about selling. As long as you know your numbers and it's a deal that's going to go especially in this market. Steven Butala:                   What do your buyers do with these houses Andrew? Do they HGTV rehab them? Andrew Peacock:             Most of my ... I mean, you know on every buyer's list there's a mixture of your buy and hold guys and then your rehab guys. It's a hard job to know who does what. Even my buyers list, 10% of those guys are actually active. They're buying most of my deals. Most of my guys are actually rehabbers. We're right ... the price point in Charlotte is much different than where you guys are. When you're talking about an average rehab, we're talking 25 bucks a square foot is your average rehab. Cosmetic is 15. If you're going a full blown renovation, you're talking about 55 bucks a square foot. That's your sweet guidance area, whatever it may be. Most of our guys, they're rehabbers. Pretty much any price point up to 250. When I'm downloading data, the first thing I do, total assess value is below 250. Because our sweet point is right in that 100 to 150 range. Flip it and sell it for 250. Jill DeWit:                            Love it. Steven Butala:                   That's what I was going to ask you. That's my next question. How do you specifically price these SFR mailers? Everybody's got a different concept. You listen to our podcast. You probably know by now how I price the mailers. How do you do it? Andrew Peacock:             It's all on APN. It's all the APN number. Like you, you describe every sub division, every neighborhood has an APN scheme. Literally I'm going through every scheme. I'm finding the price per square foot in that area. Then I have a built in rehab cost that I developed over time. Subtract that from the ARV or whatever. Then I price every single one of them. It's literally ... depending on how compact that area is, you can price 100 houses at once. Or if you're dealing with a more rural area, [inaudible 00:17:54] county which is Concord, North Carolina. 30 minutes away from here, very hot in market. But you're talking half acre lots. Everything is spread out. Now I'm pricing five at a time because schemes are totally different. It takes me a lot longer to do that. When you're in Charlotte, you're in Mecklenburg, every house you can throw a rock and hit the neighbors. I can price so many at once where it's extremely accurate at this point. That's an overview. Steven Butala:                   Do you price with an equation in the urban area? You don't go into each asset and price them, do you? You run an equation like price per square foot or whatever, right? Andrew Peacock:             Yeah, yeah. Just the actual equation of the price per square foot. Then I subtract their rehab, which is my standard kind of rehab price per square foot. Then I subtract my assignment fee. Two thousand is what I shoot for on every single kind of deal. Going in, I'm right at a 5% margin of being right where I need to be, even after seeing the house. That's how ... I started off maybe 15% margin of where I need to be. Meaning the price on the letter is actual price that I know I can get it at and be very comfortable, and don't have to renegotiate any of that stuff. When I was starting off, I was right around 15%. I wasn't comfortable in numbers and all that stuff. I'm right down to about 5% margin of error now. Some of these houses you walk in and it's literally a hoarder house. You don't know that when you're pricing letters. On my Instagram, some of my hoarder houses, they get the most hits because people are like, oh my goodness. How do people live like that? You know? From the outside it's a beautiful brick, three two ranch neighborhood. New construction selling for half a million. Andrew Peacock:             Then you have this one sore thumb that's literally trashed on the inside. You can't account for that until you see the house. Back to your question, it's literally all equation. Steven Butala:                   When a wrecked house comes up, do you renegotiate the price? Andrew Peacock:             Have to, yeah. I tweak my letter a little bit. I switch to a letter of intent. I know you guys said not to do that a while back with Landon stuff. I don't know. It gave me a little more comfortable feeling that I can go in and we don't have an official offer price given on that letter. Everybody likes to do it different. I just want in with a letter of intent to approach. Then if I need to renegotiate, then we go and renegotiate, agree on price, and go to contact. Jill DeWit:                            Good. Steven Butala:                   That's amazing. I'll tell you, here's my takeaway so far. The most successful people in our group have taken the concept of Land Academy and they've made it their own. You've actually taken probably modularized out this concept probably four or five pieces of it, redone it yourself, kept the mailer concept the same. Came up with a new pricing situation that we don't actually necessarily teach, but it works for you and cold calling. Changing the letter to a letter of intent versus an offer, an actual offer. Every person I've spoken with that has had a huge amount of success like you have with our group, has done some version of this. They've taken the general concepts and made it their own. That's awesome man. Andrew Peacock:             I think I may have just ... it takes a type of person. I feel like our group is the best out there. I've seen a lot of these groups. We have a ton of innovators. We have a ton of entrepreneurial minded people where we're going to figure it out. It's literally you got something, you got a system that works. I know awhile back buying these lots in the desert for 500 bucks. That was great. We all tried it. My first mailer was, I think it was Caine, Utah. That's pretty much the only one I did west of the Mississippi. That one and a couple more. Then I literally came over here to North Carolina. I did Asheville, I did Charleston South Carolina. I've done some different things with those mailers. It's that thing in your mind where it's like, if this concept works, I feel like I can make it work with anything. It's a bunch of innovators here, I love it. Jill DeWit:                            You're right. There's so many really smart people. I can't remember Andrew, are you on our advanced group. Andrew Peacock:             I am. I'm terrible at that stuff. Like Jack said, just sometimes you get the people that start off on every call, then you don't hear from them. Steven Butala:                   Because you got successful. Andrew Peacock:             Right? I'm literally locked in my ... what's that? Jill DeWit:                            ... talking about. You got to come on that Friday because that Friday in October, the advance group is getting together. I'm serious. I'm locking the doors and it's a private event. Steven Butala:                   You have a lot to add man. Jill DeWit:                            There's no cameras. We're all going to talk about what we can really do together. Andrew Peacock:             I'm there. Please. I'm definitely there. I hear Jack all the time say how you lock yourself in a ... we're data people. It's literally we're getting away. I don't want to be bothered. I can price stuff forever and let me go. That's how I've been. I'm definitely going to get back in the groove with you guys for sure. Jill DeWit:                            Good. Steven Butala:                   How many mailers are you sending out a month right now? Andrew Peacock:             A month I'm right at I would say just about two thousand. It's not a ton. For me and I'm trying to hit, I'm literally trying to increase that profit margin on each mailer. If I'm sending out 899 and I know I'm going to get a deal, I know exactly how many I need to send out, right? It's still I would love to put somebody in that place as far as pricing. I just feel like it's such an art to this pricing stuff. Yeah, it can be a little bit of a science. Even when I'm pricing price per square foot on each sub division, you could have one unique property that's right at 150. Then you have a sweet spot at $111 dollars per square foot. Somebody has to know where that sweet spot is. It's very tough to teach that. I don't know. I'll probably price forever, but I would love to have a full group of maybe cold callers, maybe people who text, maybe people who do this. Just bring in a floodgate of leads. Andrew Peacock:             I have buyers knocking down the doors. We need some more leads. We're buying the stuff up. That's my next focus. Jill DeWit:                            That's so great. Steven Butala:                   I have given up control on everything. [inaudible 00:25:10] with the exception of doing a mailer and pricing. No matter what I think is going to happen, at that last moment when you're done with that spreadsheet, there's stuff that I tweak. You can teach the basic stuff but it's because you know the neighborhoods and the whole thing. That's what it is. Andrew Peacock:             Exactly. Steven Butala:                   25 years of experience in these sub divisions that I've been to all of them. I just know how it's going to go. Andrew Peacock:             Exactly. I don't ever think I'll outsource that. I'll find some other things. I know I will. Steven Butala:                   When you close the deals through escrow on these houses, do you close them yourself or do you have a transaction coordinator? Andrew Peacock:             We send it to attorneys here in North Carolina. The only deal I closed myself was the first one in Caine, Utah back in 2016. It was great. I've used an attorney pretty much for everything. Once I get the contracts in, I don't want to talk to anybody else. I want to just get there. Jill DeWit:                            Moving on. Andrew Peacock:             We have an attorney here who pretty much does all the investors. Literally from start to finish I don't have to hear from them again. I'll pay them a little bit to do that. You know? Steven Butala:                   These cold callers, again, you don't have to answer any of this stuff if you don't want to. Andrew Peacock:             I'll answer it. Steven Butala:                   Are they in this country? Andrew Peacock:             No. No. That's also a big controversial discussion. Should you get US based? Should you get Filipino? Should you get whatever it may be? Mine are all in the Philippines. What I did, literally was once you place these ads in the Philippines, you're going to get a ton of applications. Before I'll even look at anything, you have to send me a voice recording and a video. Before I even look at a resume, because there's no way I have the time to look through 150 resumes that probably who knows if they wrote them or not. You know, that type of thing. I'm going to listen to all the ones who submit an actual voice recording. Then I'll decide who I interview. It's worked very well. If you talk to my cold callers, their accent maybe it's very slight if there even is any. With the system I use, which is Mojo Dialer, it allows me to go in and listen to the call recordings. I can go in, I can analyze. I can do whatever it may be if there needs to be any tweaks there. Andrew Peacock:             They're in the Philippines. I'm paying them six bucks an hour, which is pretty good money on their end. 200 bucks per lead that goes to contract. If they hit their goal, which is four contracts a month, they get a thousand bucks on the back end. Steven Butala:                   When you sell it? Andrew Peacock:             No, no. Just if it goes to contract, they did their job. If they get four in that month, they get a thousand bucks. It doesn't matter if I move it or not. Whatever it may be. They are extremely happy and extremely excited about that. I know some guys that are paying $1.50 an hour and that's it. You're going to get what you pay for, especially over there. They are extremely happy. They have their own group chat message. Anything that pops up, they communicate. I'm not as involved because I don't really want to be. One is designated as the manager. Everything has to go through him first. If he can't handle it, then I will. That's an overview of the cold callers. Jill DeWit:                            That's good. Steven Butala:                   So a lead comes in, do you personally look at the house and look at the numbers and say yep, I want to do this deal? Who calls the seller? You? Andrew Peacock:             Sure. From the cold caller leads, so lead comes in from the cold caller. The cold caller makes an initial offer on the phone. We have a system here. I'm not sure if it's universal. It's a CRS data. I'm not sure if you guys have heard of it. Steven Butala:                   No, I haven't. Andrew Peacock:             It spits out a very, very accurate price per square foot ARV of that house. Zillow is not accurate over here. I know a lot of people use Zillow. Red Fin is the most accurate public platform that I've seen. CRS data is ... and you have to pay for the subscription. It's the most accurate I've seen. They have their script. As this motivated lead comes in, they're offering 60% of that CRS, ARV. That's been very accurate so far. If they agree to that 60%, we set an appointment right away. That's when I go in. I don't talk to this lead until I ring the doorbell. 60% that leads out these individuals to say, hey yeah. I want to sell. You're going to give me three million. That type of thing because we run across so many, yeah I want to sell. How much are you going to give me? Or whatever it may be. We're weaning through all those individuals. The only way I want to go to their house is if we're anywhere in that ballpark. Steven Butala:                   This is fascinating. I can't remember when I've learned so much on a ... I'm supposed to be interviewing you, you know? I'm sitting here taking notes. I'm listening. It's amazing. Andrew Peacock:             Thank you. Thank you. It comes from you guys. You guys started all this stuff. I can't wait to collaborate for sure. Jill DeWit:                            This is good stuff. Steven Butala:                   Do you feel like you're running out of real estate? You're in one MSA. Are you going to expand? Andrew Peacock:             That's what I wanted to ask you guys. For land, we hit accounting, we move on. When I'm here in Mecklenburg, you send someone a letter that's stating a certain price, right? You come back and try to hit them with another price no matter whether it's two of the three months later, six months later. They're always going to refer to that first letter. I'm going through the second mailer of Mecklenburg now. I've heard that a couple of times from the leads that are coming in. I'm wondering if that's an issue or not. I'm not sure in my opinion. So many things change over time. So many people go through divorce. So many people inherit property. So many people ... all these issues that come up happens. I'm not sure if it will be an issue or not, but I would love to do the virtual thing. Have boots on the ground like you guys talk about. Literally place somebody. You can pay a realtor if you want. Just somebody that goes to the houses. I can do this price point anywhere in North Carolina. Andrew Peacock:             If you figure out the scheme for any state, you can do it there. It's literally numbers. It's all data. All you need is a trusted boots on the ground somewhere. If you can get that, somebody who is not going to undercut you and all that stuff, I think you can do it. You can make a very, very large machine if you do that. Steven Butala:                   Exactly. That's what House Academy is all about. That's what we teach. You got to get that trusted boots on the ground. What I say in the House Academy program is, and I'm not selling anything here. You're doing it exactly how I said to do it in the program. You have to, in my opinion, conquer all this stuff yourself. Learn how to do it so you can train your boots on the ground. Andrew Peacock:             Exactly. Steven Butala:                   You're ready. You're right there and ready for it. Andrew Peacock:             Oh yeah. It's something I definitely want to do. I haven't tried it yet, but I know exactly what market I want to go to. Wake county here in North Carolina, which is the Raleigh, Durham area. Extremely similar, but a lot more spread out than Mecklenburg. It's a ton of potential. I've actually bought a lot of lots there in Wake county, which this is before you guys started talking about info lots. I jumped to info lots probably six months into the game. I did. I was like, it sounds so simple, so I'm just going to give it a shot. That's how I made all of my money in 2017, was info lots. It was right here in North Carolina. That's what allowed me to quit my pharmaceutical job and do this thing full time. It's a journey, but I love trying new stuff. Steven Butala:                   Fascinating. I'm stunned. Really, I mean it. Jill DeWit:                            You're another person. When we sent out our survey, I think it was in January. The number of people that said, I left my job awhile ago, I'm like, what the heck? I had no idea how many people. Steven Butala:                   I didn't either. Jill DeWit:                            We're in. We're gone. Andrew Peacock:             Oh yeah. It was the most beautiful phone call of my life to be able to call my boss and say, hey. I found something else. I'm out of here. Jill DeWit:                            I'm good. Thanks. Andrew Peacock:             I'm good. No worries here. Steven Butala:                   What's a regular day look like for you? You got to be putting in 12, 14 hours, right? Andrew Peacock:             Oh man. No. Literally for the houses. I wake up at 5AM and I do my workout and all that. I have my morning ritual, whatever you may call it. I start work around 8AM now. I go to from 8:00 to about noon as far as stuff I need to be doing in front of the computers. I'll leave the entire afternoon open for appointments. I grind from 8AM to noon. That's when I'm pricing mailers. That's when I'm going over calls with my cold callers. That's when I'm looking at new markets. That's when I'm talking to buyers. All that stuff. Afternoon it's literally appointments. That's my normal schedule. Jill DeWit:                            Love it. Steven Butala:                   That's awesome. Jill DeWit:                            That's perfect. Wow. Steven Butala:                   These are very logical House Academy gratuitous. Jill DeWit:                            What's next? What are your goals for this year and what's next? Andrew Peacock:             The goal for this year, 750, 750 revenue. I'm not quite on track there. I got to turn some things up second quarter, I mean second half of this year. Then I want to go into apartment complex. I'm naturally a cash flow guy. I wanted to skip over single family rentals. It's just not enough on the bone there for me. My natural next move would be that mom and pop apartment complex. You're talking 30 units to 90 units. Something big enough for the small investor, but too small for the big guys. It's that sweet spot where mom and pop are still running those things, where I can go in and do some value add. Really start that portion of the cash flow. Which I listened to a podcast, it was an individual who they had a ton of land that they had no terms. It's just a headache. I would love to have everything under one roof. I can jump into that apartments. Then I have a bajillion other things going on in my head that I want to try. That's the next thing for me. Jill DeWit:                            I'm curious because it sounds like you've always been a cash guy up to this point. You haven't really done any term. It will be interesting to see how it goes. Andrew Peacock:             Yeah. I know that it's going to take capital to get to that cash flow. For me, this entire focus for the past two, three years has been building capital until I can make that leap and actually get some apartment complex. I'm also very interested in the trucking industry for cash flow standpoint. It's a lot of things that's going on in my head that I want to try. Mobile home parts would love to do self storage. All that stuff. All those are potential next moves where it can be big enough to focus on. Jill DeWit:                            Now knowing what you know, just knowing how to buy whatever it is right, the sky is the limit. All you have to do is [crosstalk 00:37:37] Andrew Peacock:             You are so right. Jill DeWit:                            What would I like to be involved in? I'm surprised he hasn't bought us a marina and a bar. Andrew Peacock:             It's coming. It's coming. Steven Butala:                   Yeah, it is. I'll tell you it's hard to beat mobile home parks that are separate APNs and storage facilities from a hands off. It's hard to beat those two types of assets for our personality types. Andrew Peacock:             If you have a mobile home park and you have city water, city sewer in that thing, and you own the actual land ... it's a lot of deals out here where people are selling mobile homes where they don't own the land. You have no control over that lease or the land. That's not what we're talking about. We want to own that 40 acres and then sub divide it into 140 little lots. It's city water, city storage, it's easy. Not easy, but you're only responsible for the land. That's very, very attractive. A lot of people know that too. A lot of big money is going into mobile home parks now. Cap rates are squeezing just like apartment complexes were what? Five, ten years ago. Mobile home parks will be there in five, ten years. Steven Butala:                   That's right. Jill DeWit:                            Right. Steven Butala:                   It's called Land Academy for a reason. Andrew Peacock:             Exactly. We don't own the land. It's awesome. I would love to enter that. Steven Butala:                   That's great man. Jill DeWit:                            This has been awesome. Steven Butala:                   I would love to have you on our live House Academy webinar as a guest, if you're up for it. Andrew Peacock:             Sure. For sure. Anything, I would love to be involved in anything. You just let me know, I'll be there. Jill DeWit:                            I'll make sure you get the invite. Andrew Peacock:             Awesome. Steven Butala:                   We have one today. I don't know what you're doing at ... well you're east coast time, right? Andrew Peacock:             Yeah. I'm east coast. I have two appointments after this. Jill DeWit:                            We'll get you for next week. I'll have them send you the invite. Steven Butala:                   Perfect. Andrew Peacock:             Awesome. That'll be perfect. Steven Butala:                   That'll be great because I think this is going to air next week. Jill DeWit:                            This'll be fun. Steven Butala:                   That'll be great. Andrew Peacock:             Great. What's the end goal for you guys? If you had to say where you wanted to be in 20 or 30 years as far as real estate, as far as accomplishments, as far as any of that? What's the end goal there? Steven Butala:                   I'll be dead in 30 years. Jill won't be. Our whole goal from day one when we started Land Academy was to bring on people just like you, have you guys figure it all out for yourselves and then become your business partner. Andrew Peacock:             Gotcha. Steven Butala:                   Whether it's deal funding, or whether it's what we're calling reverse deal funding. Where we find a deal. Your perfect candidate, if we found either houses or a residential info lots in North Carolina, we would send you the deal, fund it 100%, and if you're up for it, you close it. Whether it's through your attorney or whatever and then we split the whole proceeds. Andrew Peacock:             Easy. Steven Butala:                   That's the whole end game is to get a network of people all over the country doing that. We are. It's working. Andrew Peacock:             Sure. Sure. Nice. I would love ... that Landon side to me is absolutely ... if I could that with houses literally all over the country where you literally send something, we approve it, it goes through the process and we close it. Whatever it may be, I think that's awesome. I agree. Steven Butala:                   You're familiar with Land Tank, right? Andrew Peacock:             Yep. Yep. Steven Butala:                   We're going to release House Tank here in a couple of months. Andrew Peacock:             Really? Steven Butala:                   I was just talking about it. You can go on there as a lender and say, yeah I approve this deal. Andrew Peacock:             Nice. Okay. I'll definitely check it out. Nice. Jill DeWit:                            The funny thing I love, it's going fantastic. Andrew Peacock:             Nice. Steven Butala:                   We'll have our people contact you. I'm confident that you're just a perfect candidate to have an honorary House Academy subscription. He's added so much to the content. Jill DeWit:                            We'll figure it out. I'll see what we can work out. Steven Butala:                   They'll contact you. Andrew Peacock:             Perfect. I appreciate it. Steven Butala:                   Andrew Peacock, amazing. Do you have a website where people can contact you? People are going to contact you after they see this, if you want them to. Andrew Peacock:             You can go to my Instagram for sure. That's probably where I do most of my stuff. I actually post some things. People love the before and after thing. I'll post pictures of what the house looked like when I got it. Then when a buyer finish the rehab and literally do comparisons, it's awesome. People love that stuff. My Instagram is peacock_ac. Carington is my middle name, so AC. That's where I do most of my stuff on Instagram. My website, my company's name is ACP Home Investments. The website is www.acphomeinvestments. That's pretty much it. You can definitely, if you want to reach out and contact me. You can andrew@acphomeinvestments. You'll get to me. I'll definitely respond. Jill DeWit:                            Awesome. Steven Butala:                   Amazing interview Andrew. Thank you. Jill DeWit:                            Thank you so much. Andrew Peacock:             Thank you guys so much. Steven Butala:                   [inaudible 00:42:46] it's been another 20, probably 30 minutes listening to the Land Academy show. Join us next time for another interesting episode. Jill DeWit:                            And we answer your questions. Post them on our online community at landinvestors.com. It is free. Steven Butala:                   You are not alone in your real estate ambition. Amazing talk pal. Andrew Peacock:             Oh man. Thank you guys so much. That was awesome. I always dreamt about the time where I would get to talk to you guys and all that stuff. I never knew how it would go. This was definitely awesome. Steven Butala:                   Dude, we got more out of it than you did, I'm sure of it. Andrew Peacock:             No, no. I love this stuff. It's so much that we can do like with this stuff. You guys literally teach the foundation of how to buy right. If you can buy right with anything, it doesn't matter the asset class. We can take this thing all the way up to hotels if we wanted to. If we know how to buy right, it's literally, it's a no brainer. Steven Butala:                   That's it. Andrew Peacock:             I feel like you'll never starve if you know how to buy. Steven Butala:                   That's it. Jill DeWit:                            That's it. Steven Butala:                   If you don't buy cheap real estate, everything is going to be fine regardless of where you are. Andrew Peacock:             Exactly. Exactly. I'm pretty young. I didn't go through the 2008 crash. This next one is coming in my opinion. I just feel like I'll be okay. It's that comforting feeling like I'll be okay. I'm going to get through that. I don't want to say easily, but I know how to buy property. It's still going to be buyers out there. Some of my top buyers have bought for 20 years plus. They know every cycle. They're not worried about it either. If I can provide a profit, they're going to buy it. Jill DeWit:                            Exactly. Steven Butala:                   It's great to talk to you Andrew. I'm so happy for your success. Andrew Peacock:             Oh man. Thank you guys so much for sure. Thank you. Thank you. I can't say it enough. Jill DeWit:                            Thank you. Steven Butala:                   Talk to you soon bud. Andrew Peacock:             All right. Have a good one. See yeah. Jill DeWit:                            Bye.  

Hey guys, Brandon Olson here, today on Rank Daddy TV. We're going to talk about handling SEO objections. So a lot of times when we're out prospecting, we're out trying to land deals for our SEO agency, we come across certain objections we may not know how to handle them. Recently we did a poll in the group, in the members group, the private group, as well as in the public Rank Daddy group asking for what objections you guys regularly come across. And we're making this video to answer each one, to kind of let you know how to handle them and move on and ask for the sale. So let's get started. So here's the question. How can marketers like us, working only part-time and running our entire business from our laptop or smartphone, how are we able to guarantee insane results to our clients, when the mainstream Internet Marketing Gurus say the guarantees are impossible? That's the question. And this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Brandon Olson and welcome to Rank Daddy. All right, so today's episode is going to be handled right here. I've got these all built up as slides. Go through each one of these. I'm going to show you how to handle the objection, what to say, and then kind of how to move them on to the next step, which is to push them to say, yes. I'm going to be referring a lot to the five points, the five tips that I gave in episode four. It's a great episode. I would recommend go back and watch that. It talks about the different clauses, the different ways we can entice them to say, yes, and agree to at least try our SEO campaign. So let's get into it. Objection one $1,000 a month is way too much to pay for SEO. So when they bring a price to me, that's kind of a buying signal, right? So $1,000 a month is the average for the billing of all of our members and all of their clients. So we use this because that's the common price. That's what we usually go to, you're starting 2000 bucks a month for SEO campaign. When they're bringing up money, it means they're interested, but maybe they don't, you haven't shown them how or why it's worth $1,000 a month. So if you're watching this and you're not in Rank Daddy, these objections are going to be handled in a way that lends to the training and the things and the tools that we give you inside Rank Daddy. So when someone says 1000 bucks a month is way too much to pay for SEO, I ask them if they know how much they're doing now? Do you know what your monthly revenue is right now? Yes. They obviously do. So if I were to bring you an extra $10,000 a month in revenue would you still say that $1,000 a month is too much to pay for SEO? They're going to say, no, obviously. That's the fact. When someone's paying us $1,000 a month, it's because within a few months we're bringing them five, six, 10, even 20, $30,000 a month in some cases of revenue that they didn't have before. They know where they're at today. They know how much revenue they're averaging on a monthly basis. When they let us start, yes, they're going to be putting of that $1,000 a month from their pocket, right? From their budget. As we go through the campaign they're hitting page one within a month or two in most cases. Their phone's going to start ringing more. They're going to start getting more deals, more sales, more clients, whatever. That SEO bill is now being offset by customers that were bringing them, okay? So you have to get them to realize that there is a temporary thing in the beginning. And we'll talk about discounting and things like that and some other objections, but you have to get them to realize that if someone has given you $10,000 a month, when do you stop paying them $1,000 a month? You don't. You say, "Hey, can I give you $2,000 a month and maybe you bring me 20,000 in new revenue?" Can we expand to these other areas? Can we add more services because we also do this and this? You get them to think of what's actually going to happen based on case studies and history of this Rank Daddy model in all of our students. So next one. We don't advertise, the ROI has never been good. I understand that. There's a lot of advertising that is a losing battle. I mean, I still see billboards, I see print ads, I see flyers come in the mail, all kinds of advertisement can be a losing battle. The Google ad words, you can spend money and spend money on Google ad words and still not make as much in return as you're paying on clicks. Within SEO it's different because when you're looking for something online, what's the first thing you do? You pick up your phone or you go to your computer and you Google it. Who do you pick to go with? Who do you pick to do business with? What do you decide, those decisions are made on the first page of Google, the first half page of Google, the first few results. That's where the business is. 90% of all searches are going to select one of the top three to five spots to do business with. This is why SEO absolutely brings an ROI every time because we sit down, we figure out what your keywords are, what city you're in, what niche you're in, what business you're in and that's your main keyword. We make it so that when people are searching that keyword looking for your business model, they find you. So there's no way around SEO not producing a positive ROI. So give this a try, and let me show you what I can do, okay? So there I'm throwing it back into that, give it a try. I mean, I use that a lot. I throw this phrase, try around a lot because in the prospect's mind, the word try doesn't have any commitment with it, right? So let's go to the next one. We have no marketing budget. That's perfect. Let us get you some marketing budget. See, right now, we're asking for $1,000 a month for SEO. I understand you may not have that to begin with and let's do this. I don't mind starting you at half price. I'll start you at $500 a month just so that I can start. We can get some of your keywords to page one, we can get some income rolling in from these new customers that we're bringing you in the form of your rankings and let that money be your marketing budget. So we never like to charge customers more than we're not already bringing them 10 times over in the form of new customers, okay? So if you're paying me $1,000 a month, that's because I'm bringing you $10,000 a month or more in new revenue. We've seen the power of Google. We know what happens when a business goes from page two even and beyond to page one, the revenue doubles. Now when they get above the fold, when they get in the first top three to five positions, it can triple. I've seen businesses, income and revenue triple going from the bottom of page one to the second position. You will have marketing budget once we start. So the point is I know that this works. It's what I do. Let me help you to get a marketing budget in place. Let me let you start at half price and then you watch to see what we can do. Give this a try. Try it for 45 days and let me show you what I can do. So there's that half price, the discounted clause that we've talked about in episode four, kind of combined with the triad. How would you deal with having two of your clients ranking for the same or similar keyword phrases? Who would get preference in being ranked higher? So, that's a good objection. And we get that every once in a while because they're worried about us taking on multiple clients. Say this is a roofer. He doesn't want me to take on him as a roofing client and work on his SEO and at the same time another roofer comes and hires me to do the same thing. The fact is we don't. It's exclusivity. We will take on one roofer in this city. We will take on one plumber in this city. You get all of the attention, you get all of our SEO efforts for your campaign. Again, this type of objection and really most objections are just a request for more information. They're not saying no in so much as they're saying, okay, what happens in this scenario? And objection is what you want. You've got to get through so many of these objections before they're calm and they realize, okay, this is not going to hurt. This is probably going to help. I'm willing to try it. Most businesses are willing to try anything that they have a chance of getting more revenue, especially if they're only going to have to put out 500 bucks for the first month or something like that. It takes too long to see SEO results. So, that's a good point too. We see this a lot come up from time to time because there's so many SEO companies and SEO agencies that do not know what they're doing. Day in and day out, we take over and clients too in the Rank Daddy group, they'll post about it taking over SEO for a client who's done SEO or have an SEO guy or company work on their site for the last two years. We opened it up and their on page isn't even done. If their on page isn't done, their site is not communicating with Google. Google doesn't even know what they want to rank for or what their site's about. So yes, it's going to take a long time to see SEO results, if you don't know what you're doing. The fact is we know what we're doing. We can make Google see what clearly what your site is about, which is what you want to rank for, what your services that you offer and results happen fast. And I'm talking within 30 to 45 days, you see ranking increases. So give this a try, and let me show you what I can do. My brother-in-law does SEO. This one's kind of funny. So if your brother-in-law's doing SEO, how's it going? Because I'm looking at your rankings right now, it looks like you're like on page three. How long's has he been doing it? So let's do this. Let your brother continue to do SEO, hire us, let us really blow up your rankings and give him the credit. Don't even tell them that you hired us or if he makes you mad, let him go and we'll keep doing the work. Either way, it's a win win. Your brother-in-law thinks he's doing something good for you, we're actually providing results. In fact, we've got a money back guarantee. If you don't see a massive increase in rank within the first 60 days, we'll give you all your money back. Why don't you give this a try, and let me show you what we can do. So there's another one, the money back guarantee clause. You can try to weave these and these five things that I brought up an episode four. Pick your back up, use multiple when you're handling those objections. The point is to handle the objection, move on ask for the sale, ask for the deal. Not really ask for the sale because that sounds like pressure, right? Ask them to try it. When they're trying something, there's no pressure. You go to the restaurant and the waiter says, "Hey, try the halibut." You're not suddenly pressured you want to leave that place. You're thinking, "Hey, I might try the halibut actually." So let's move to the next one. I fired my last SEO guy because I couldn't tell if he was staying busy. This is a good one because one, he's already got an SEO guy. He fired him. So he's used to paying money for SEO, so it's a buying signal. He couldn't tell if he was staying busy and here's what I'd say, so with SEO, yes, once we do your on page and the visible things that you can see and create all your citations, we run a press release for you. There's a lot of things that we do in the background that you can't see that we're doing or how busy we are. The fact is once we get you ranked and your site is crawling up the top of page one, it's doing it with sites that we own that already have a massive degree of trust and power in Google. And it's not that we're staying busy so much as these sites that we own that are linking to your sites are doing the work. They're sitting there doing work even when we go home and our office is closed. So for us, it's not a matter of staying busy so much as a matter of showing you the results. So here's what we do at an SEO campaign. We're going to pull all your keywords. We'll start with the four or five most competitive short keywords there are, right? New Braunfels roofing, New Braunfels roof repair, things like that. Short, nothing, long tail, no sentences. We want the most competitive ones. We're going to pull a ranking report, show you where you're ranked for those things right now. And in 30 days we're going to pull another one. You're going to see a massive improvement. In 60 days we're going to send you another one. So at the end of each month before you get your bill, right around the same time, you're going to see your rankings report and you're going to see the results of us being busy. So it's not a matter of time spent on the campaign. It's a matter of we're bringing you the results. If you're paying us $1,000 a month, it's because we're going to be bringing you an extra 10 grand a month or so in extra work and extra revenue that you don't have right now. Makes sense? Let's give it a try. I can hire someone off Craigslist to do what you do. That's a good point. There are people on Craigslist that sell SEO services, but you kind of get what you pay for. So what I would say is when you hire someone on Craigslist, so you're not really seeing or knowing that they're going to do or you don't know if they can do what they're saying, there's no proof. I can show you case study after case study of sites that we've ranked and the results of now. This is what we do. We will absolutely blow your business up with new customers. And usually at that point, I'll tell them a story maybe of a client that I've had, the experience they had, how they went and this is a real case study from $200,000 a summer to almost a million dollars a summer. And so I'll go into stories like that and if you want to see the story episode, I think it's episode six where I go into details on that. Stories really help you to handle objections and kind of eliminate objections too. So this one's kind of silly. I probably would just blow it off. I have a marketing background I can do this myself. Awesome. How's that going for you? I see you're ranked at, you're on page three or you're not existing. So have you started this yet? When I was in business and I had a retail store, I didn't really want to do all the marketing and all the stuff myself. I just wanted to run my business. And if you're like most business owners, that's what they want to do, is run their business. Let us handle your SEO. This is what we do. We help customers day in day out, to get more customers by propelling them to the top of Google. So there's not a contract. You can literally just stop whenever you want. There's money back guarantee. If you don't see a massive increase in rank when the first 60 days, we'll give you all your money back. All I want you to do is try this for 45 days so we can see, so you can see what we can do. Do you have any referrals? We have referrals, but put yourself in this scenario. Once you're in, you're with us, we've gotten gone along for months. Your customer count is increasing, your busier and busier, do you want all the people that are trying to think about coming to us as a client to be calling you every day, asking how your SEO campaign is going? We feel that most of our clients don't want that to happen. So we kind of keep that private. We have referrals, we have case studies that we can show you of proof. But the fact is because we don't have a contract and because we offer money back guarantee, and because I can start off at half price just to prove to you that we know what we're talking about, you shouldn't need any kind of other people to talk to. What if I gave you fake referrals? How would you know? So, that's the thing. You really have to just get out there and if you're serious about wanting new customers, just start, just try this. Let me show you what I can do. Thanks, but we're getting better results with word of mouth which is free. So this one, either they have too much business or they're just kind of brush you off. You kind of have to dig and see, get to a real objection. Getting better results than what? They have no idea what better results are compared to, what word of mouth compares to. Now, if they just operate on word of mouth and that's all they need and they've got plenty of business, they don't need any more, great. Let's just move to the next person. But usually this is just trying to brush you off. So you've got to kind of get past that and get to a real objection. How can you guarantee I'll be on page one, only Google decides who is on page one. Google does decide who's on page one. They put people on page one, websites on page one because they're trusted. Google will not rank you high if they don't trust your website. So we know what websites get ranked on Google. It's the ones who are trusted the most. Our entire SEO campaign is geared to bring a maximum amount of trust to your website. We start off with making sure Google knows what your site's about. If they don't know what your site's about because your titles and your on page things are confusing Google, then they don't even know what to rank you for. So, that's going to be fixed first. That's the communication. Then we started a process of building trust to your site so that Google trusts it. Immediately when Google starts having these trust signals, your rankings begin to climb and claw past your competitors. First thing we do is run a press release. We'll have a professional writing team, creating an article about your business, and then we'll distribute that to 500 different TV, radio, news, media type websites. All of these already have a ton of trust with Google. Each one of them will be linking back to your website. What's that do? It passes the trust right to your website. We follow that up with a social campaign to kind of create a viral scenario off of those 500 new press releases. So all this media is talking about you. Now, naturally what follows is people are sharing and commenting and posting and retweeting and things like that on social platforms. So we run that and that kind of generates more trust back to your site because all these things have triggers and links back to your site. Each day we have links that are being built that point back to your site. See this shows Google that it's consistent. Shows them that it's diverse because these are links that, some of them don't have much power, some of them don't have much trust, some of them do, some of them are no follow links, some are do follow links. So there's a big variety. Google loves that, but it all ends to the trust. The same time we're fixing and creating 350 directory listings for you across the Internet. When Google sees 350 different spots that mention your businesses name, address and phone number. And it's all exact, the spelling of your address, your address spelling in your business and everything is exactly synced across 350 different networks and directory listings across the Internet, that is massive. So we manually go in and have those built sending a huge trust signal. Here's what happens after 30 days, you compare your original ranking from where we start to the 30 day mark and you'll see why we know what we're doing because you'll have a massive increase. In fact, if you don't see a massive increase in the first 60 days of using our service, we give you all your money back. So yeah, Google decides who's on page one, but we know what factors they're looking at to determine who is on page one. So give this a try, to show you what I can do. How do I track how many new leads you're getting me? How do you know you're getting me the new business? That's a good question. So do you know how much you're doing on a monthly basis right now for revenue? Yes. So we don't have to count the leads that come to your site because we're doing the SEO on your site. We're not creating a fake site and having traffic go to it and then they come to you so that we can track each person. We track your rankings. Most people know that the power of Google is insane. And then, if you're getting businesses ranked at the top or even the top few spaces for new Braunfels roofing, you're going to get a crap load of new business, right? So if you know how much business you're doing now and then 30 days from now, you're doing more than that by 25% or something and then 60 days you're doing another half, you can see that your business is growing. And it has to be attributed to what we're doing because we're going to also show you your baseline ranking where you started and you're going to show your rankings increase as we move along through the campaign. So all of this is directly related to Google and where you're listed on Google and your presence. So that's how you know. What about Google's algorithm? It's so consistently changing that's why it's so hard to rank. Like you've been talking to some SEO people. So, yeah, Google's algorithm is changing, but you know what doesn't change about Google's algorithm, their interest in the end user. If Google's algorithms always are interested in the end user, then that's the only thing we have to worry about. Everything we do in the SEO campaign is to bring trust and to be in it for the end user. We make sure your content on your site is good for the end user. Everything we do is for the end user when it comes to the SEO campaign. Then I'll go through and talk about the press release maybe, the directory listings and the different things in the SEO campaign and what's involved in that. So it doesn't matter how many new algorithm updates come about, as long as you're doing things in a natural way and that are beneficial for the end user, Google will love your site and rewards you with higher rankings. I lost $10,000 to SEO. Well, I'm sorry to hear that. We will stop you way before you get that deep into it. So for real though, you're not paying us $10,000 a month, so it's not going to be possible for you to lose that. You're going to pay $1,000 a month and it's going to be a month deal, there's no contract. So you can stop whenever you want. At any point, if you felt like you're losing money you can stop. In fact, if you don't see a massive increase in rank within the first 60 days, we will give you all your money back. This is what we do for a living. We rank sites at the top of Google and prove those presence online, so that they have more customers, more clients, bigger ROI, et cetera. So just try this, give me 45 days and let me show you what I can do. I want to talk to other clients of yours because I've been burned. So, that kind of goes back to the referral thing. We don't like to let all of our new prospects that are thinking about it start calling all of our clients because then our clients will be upset, because they're bothered all the time by all these people, and then they wouldn't be clients anymore. So let's do this. This is $1,000 a month scenario, right? And aggressive SEO campaign in a city this size in your niche runs about a $1,000 a month. I don't mind doing it for half. I'll start you at half price at 500 bucks a month, just so that I can show you, we know what we're talking about, we know what we're doing, you can see results. After 30 days you're going to see rankings increase, after 60 days you'll see another rankings increase and continue to climb and continue to climb. When we get a few keywords on page one and we'll sit down, we'll talk about, okay, well pick your most competitive keywords. When I get three of those to page one and you're actually getting new business from our efforts and you can use their money, the client, your new customers money to offset the SEO bill. Then we'll talk about going to $1,000 a month, but not until you're making it, not until you're in the profit, okay? And if they say, no, to that and they're still on the fence, but they're kind of interested, lock them in like this. This is a program that we have called the Deal Lander. Literally for $100 in 30 days, you can show them that you know what you're doing. So you tell him, "Look, give me 30 days and 100 bucks and one keyword, your main keyword, new Braunfels roofing. I'll take that keyword, I'll show you where you're ranked right now using a third party software. 30 days after we're going to pull that report again and show you where you're ranked now for that same keyword. If I can show you that, I can massively increase the rank of that one keyword within 30 days, do you agree to start? Give me your SEO campaign at 500 bucks a month." Still no contract, still money back guarantee. I just want you to try this. So this kind of pulls them out, right? This sees if they're really serious or not because what business is not going to give you $100 in a month, if there's a chance that they can triple their revenue, it's just not going to happen. Now, what do you do with that 100 bucks? You go into our dashboard, you go into the outsource area and you buy the Deal Lander. The Deal Lander will fix their own page SEO based on that one keyword you get. It will pay for your press release and it'll pay for your social signals. So you'll have a landslide of trust signals coming within 30 days back to that client based on that keywords and that keyword will launch, from wherever it's at. You may hit page one in the month, it may hit two page two from page eight or nine or 10 or not existent, but just doing that in 30 days for 100 bucks for that client, that proves to them now that you know what you're doing. You're going to do what you say and this is the cost scenarios that we set up. We have so many tools like this, we're losing money on this Deal Lander. It costs more for us to do the press release, the on page, the man hours, the social signals, but we want to give this to you to be able to help you land more deals. Use it as a last resort. Make sure you've already gone through the no contract clause the money back guarantee. You've told them to try it for 45 days. You've gone through the half price. This is like the last resort, but this will land deals where we call the Deal Lander. Do I need to pay the monthly fee after you get me to page one? So this is like something that not really, a lot of the SEO guys are thinking this question because they're thinking about their pay, their money, the fee. I've had probably two clients ask me this and the last four years and 60 or 80 clients, but what do you say if it does come up? The answer is yes. Why? It goes back to that. Well, when do you stop paying the guy who's bringing you $10,000 a month in business and you're only paying a thousand? When do you turn that faucet off? You don't. You literally just lay it out to them like that and they say, no, I'm not going to stop paying you a thousand if you in fact are bringing me an extra $10,000 in business. You're probably going to say, "Hey, can I give you 2000." Right? So we get into control and other areas in the group in the training and showing you why you can offer this no contract money back guarantee and yet expect them to stay. It's because we're in control. The links that you point to their site that we show you how to create and obtain in the group and the training or what keep you in control they're what guarantees your paycheck, because if it all comes down to it and you've got a guy ranked at the top and he does want to stop, which I've had before, people have close up business. They give to somebody else. The other guy doesn't want to, whatever. They get too busy. You get to turn that off. So it's almost like you got to be in the training to understand this, but we're in control. We tried SEO, but it doesn't work. We use Trusted Trader for leads. So Trusted Trader is probably like a HomeAdvisor where they'll sell you the leads. I don't know about Trusted trader, but it's probably the same as HomeAdvisor because HomeAdvisor is selling the same lead to five businesses. And if you don't call them first and have the most aggressive sales pitch and probably the cheapest deal, you're not going to get the deal. But you just wasted 75 to 150 bucks on that lead that they sold to five other businesses. So you probably tried SEO, but whoever was doing your SEO is probably trying to figure out SEO themselves. We know how to do SEO. We do this day in, day out. We've watched businesses have to add to their fleet to hire more staff to expand to other areas because the customer volume was insane blowing them up. We have forced businesses to raise their prices because they had too many customers in scenarios where they couldn't add to their fleet or expand or grow their office size. So what do you do when you have too many customers in that scenario? You chop off the ones who are paying the least or not willing to pay that bottom price. So we've had customers literally have to raise their prices by 25% and still were the busiest they've ever been, increased their revenue, cut off the customers who didn't want to pay the higher fee. And those are the ones that cause the biggest headaches. The people who pay the least bringing all the coupons and things, usually those are the ones with the most headaches. So this is what happens in real life with our SEO. We give you problems like having too many customers. So sometimes at this point I'll drop back to another clause and say, look, before we even go any further, are you in a position to expand? Like if we get you to the point with our SEO campaign, I've got to bring this up because it happens, if we get to the point where you have too many customers, are you in a position to hire more fleet? I mean, obviously at that point when there's more money coming in, but can you expand? Can you add to your staff? Can you raise prices if you have to? Is this something you're willing to do? Because if not, it may not be a good fit after all. And then they start back peddling and they're like, "Yeah, no, it's fine. I mean, we can raise prices. We can hire more people." "Great. Let's get started. I will send you an invoice and a fill out this information here and we'll get going. Literally, that's it." I had SEO done before, it was a waste of money. And this goes back to, I haven't found an SEO guy or company on the planet that knows what they're doing. It's sad and it's crazy. And in other words these people are learning in SEO, but they're not even using an actual logic. When you open up a website that had an SEO done to it for years, and it's not even communicated with Google because the titles are wrong and the heading tags are wrong and they're not even telling Google what the page is about. It's like getting a book and the book is about butter and eggs and the first title in the chapter says, how to make Margaritas. That's so confusing. I thought this book was about butter and eggs. That's what we look at. When we come across these websites that people said, I had SEO done before and it was a waste of money nothing happened, here's why. None of this stuff they need for the last two years did anything because your website doesn't show Google what your site's about. How's Google going to know where to rank if they don't know what you're about. Are you about Margaritas or are you about butter and eggs? It's not clear, so we're not going to rank you anywhere. You figure it out and come back to us when you know what you're doing. Basically is what Google says. Next, I'd rather support local digital marketing agencies. Hey, that's awesome, because we are local. We actually build and scale local businesses with our SEO. I don't have to be right next to you in your same city to be able to apply the techniques that we use an SEO to crank you to the top of Google and blow up your business and give you more customers than you ever had. So try this. Do me a favor and try this for 45 days and let me show you what I'm capable of. There's no contract. I'm not going to make you sign anything. I'm telling you the price. I'm telling you what's going to happen. I'll even give you your money back guarantee, if you don't see a massive increase in rank in the first 60 days I'll give you all your money back. Let's go. I'm swamped with business as it is, thank you anyway. So this was probably the one that you can't overcome. I mean, you're doing SEO to get people more business, if they don't want more business, and it happens. I'm in new Braunfels, which is the second fastest growing city in America, that's under 500,000 population. We're about 100,000 population and we're growing like crazy, if we had four more people moved in, we would have been the fastest growing. I cannot give away a website that I own on roofing to these roofing companies. It's ranked at the top of page one. I get leads all the time, come in into the tracking number. This is an all lead generation site that I built. I cannot give the site away because they don't need the business. It's the craziest thing in the world, but they're building and fixing roofs so fast because of the market. So you're going to have businesses that come up like this and it's not fake. Some businesses are actually swamped with business as it is. So there's nothing you can do. Just go to the next. HomeAdvisor is doing just fine for us. And HomeAdvisor is that one that I was telling you about earlier where they'll sell you a roofing lead, but they're also going to sell it to five other businesses. So you better call them first and you better make sure your offers better and cheaper and you can get there faster. Otherwise you just lost your 75 to $150 or whatever it is. And that's about what it is for roofing. Maybe more. It could be 200 bucks by now. I don't know. I'm already spending my budget on radio, newspaper inserts. Now, when I get done a laughing, no. Tweak some of that budget, right? Divert 500 over and over to here. Let me show you what SEO will do. You will soon stop paying for radio, stop paying for overpriced radio newspaper inserts, and you'll have more customers than you can handle. You will have to raise your prices or expand to other areas or higher more fleet or bring on more staff or whatever it is, because that's what happens when people start with us and let us do their SEO. Thanks. But I'm already on page one. That's awesome. What are you on page one for? I'm asking this because I already know the question. I've already googled and done the research before I started talking to this person any further and yeah, they're on page one for this long old keyword or maybe only one keyword, but for the majority of the keywords there on page two, three, four, whatever, because they need an SEO campaign. So how much business are you getting being on page one now for this one keyword? You know how much volume you're doing monthly? How much ROI? How much revenue you do on a monthly basis? Okay, great. Are you in a position to grow that? Are you in a position to, or do you want more customers? Yes. Okay, great. Here's what we do. We're going to start you with no contract money back guarantee SEO campaign. We're going to pull your keywords. We're going to start on the first four to six major core competitive keywords and bring massive amount of trust to your site, so the ranking starts going through the roof. And within a few months you're going to see, yeah, you're on page one, but you're on page one for multiple keywords and you're going to see the difference. It's not just about being on page one for one keyword because not every customer is searching that one keyword. Give this a try. I've been offered SEO more times than I care to remember. Everyone claims her an SEO expert and I think they're all scammers. What makes you different? Oh, that one. I think we've covered through the different points in the previous objections. I'm still only getting a couple of calls here and there, if I start getting a lot more clients I can afford to pay more. So this sounds like maybe somebody who's just started, I'm not sure how this objection would be someone who hasn't really started at all because I can afford to pay more. So, that's great. This is your mid campaign, we just started. We don't want you to pay more right now, we want to put you in the boat where you're using money, that we're bringing you in the form of new customers because of your rankings to pay us. And I'll say this and again, because I love this clause, I never liked to have our customers pay more than, we're not already bringing them 10 times over in the form of new customers due to their Google rankings. I don't want you to use your money to pay your SEO bill in other words. Let me bring you customers use their money to offset your SEO bill and still have excess revenue. That's our goal for every customer. How much is this going to cost? Cost is a funny word. How much would it cost you if I gave you $10,000 a month and you gave me a thousand? And they're going to look puzzled for a minute, and you're going to say that's the situation. That's what we do for businesses. 10x ROI is normally an average. So if a guy's paying me $1,000 a month for SEO, it's because I'm soon enough bringing him an extra $10,000 a month revenue that he didn't have before. So, that's all the ones we've got. If you got more, stick them in the comments to this youtube video, I will reply to them, if they're legit and they're not just jokes. If they're jokes, I'll probably would apply to them also. Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. So you don't miss any these podcast episodes. If you're doing this on audio, which a lot of you are on iTunes, Google play, Spotify, SoundCloud, we're all over the place, rankdaddy.com. Get in the training for a dollar. I will give you a 30 day all access, everything's included, full transparency. You can see and try everything for a month before you even decide if it's for you. In fact, I will show you how to land clients and guarantee that you land clients, if you do our 30/30 challenge. You'll see what that is when you get in the group, but basically if you go through the program within 45 days, if you have not landed one client, I will refund your first 199 membership fee because its 199 a month. But the same thing applies. I don't want you to pay me with your money. I want you to pay me with the money that comes from the clients that I help you land. Makes sense? All right guys, appreciate your time. Thanks for listening. This has been a long one. Thanks for sticking with me. We will see you on the flip side.

[fusion_builder_container hundred_percent="no" equal_height_columns="no" menu_anchor="" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" id="" background_color="" background_image="" background_position="center center" background_repeat="no-repeat" fade="no" background_parallax="none" parallax_speed="0.3" video_mp4="" video_webm="" video_ogv="" video_url="" video_aspect_ratio="16:9" video_loop="yes" video_mute="yes" overlay_color="" video_preview_image="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" padding_top="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" padding_right=""][fusion_builder_row][fusion_builder_column type="1_1" layout="1_1" background_position="left top" background_color="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" border_position="all" spacing="yes" background_image="" background_repeat="no-repeat" padding_top="" padding_right="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" margin_top="0px" margin_bottom="0px" class="" id="" animation_type="" animation_speed="0.3" animation_direction="left" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" center_content="no" last="no" min_height="" hover_type="none" link=""][fusion_text] Watch the live interview below [/fusion_text][fusion_youtube id="https://youtu.be/ETQuFR4pf5M" alignment="center" width="" height="" autoplay="false" api_params="&rel=0" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" /][fusion_text] P026 Transcription (was completed by automated process. Please ignore any speech-to-text errors) [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Beatty Carmichael and welcome to another session of get sellers calling you a real estate podcast and I'm excited today because I get to interview just an amazing friend of mine a friend who's been with friends since 2012. Actually one of our very first clients and that's Stuart Sutton out of Austin Texas area so student Harry Stuart. How are you doing. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me today. Well I'm excited to have you because I used to pick your brains many years ago if you recall we did mastermind conference calls and I learned more about marketing for real estate agents than I ever could have. And you just been a wealth of knowledge there. [00:00:49] Well that's very nice of you I learned a tremendous amount from me too. [00:00:52] But we have definitely enjoyed working together. I just kind of set the stage. I know you don't brag about yourself so let me brag about you so people understand who it is I'm interviewing. You've been in business for a few years. Is that correct. Just started. Just started. How many years ago. Already for about thirty four years ago. And you are a Diamond Club member and a is at masters. Why were those two levels. [00:01:24] Well with Remax I'm going to get RE MAX for I just hit seven years. OK. I do have the lifetime achievement award with the chairman's job is an annual award which means you have to make over 500 thousand in the Diamond Club is the club you have to make over million a year. So yes I mean in each of those. [00:01:46] Very good. And and when you and I met we the thing that impressed me so much. [00:01:52] One of many is at the time you were doing between 80 and 100 transactions a year all personal production. And you were asked you know how many hours a week do you work. And you said between 35 and 40 hours. Do you remember that day. Yes sir. And it blew me away that you could have that type of volume on those few hours. And is that part that I really want to talk about on this call and just to understand what you do now. I know things have changed a little bit. So kind of give me an idea of where things are now if you don't mind. [00:02:30] Well we're just plugging away. I've narrowed down the number of transactions I do in my goal when I when I came with Remax was very straightforward and that was I want to do fewer transactions but I don't want any less income. So I had had a big team and we've done hundreds of deals and and all that. And I just was changing the way that I approach the business. So I now manage each of my clients myself by each of my team members manages each of their clients themselves. We do have staff that helps us but I have narrowed down from doing as you said 80 to 100 at that time and actually the year before I met you I've done 111 sales. Just personally now when you add my team in the volume is pretty impressive. But as a team we don't nobody knows what we do in the way of volume because each of my agents keeps their own. I let them keep their production for themselves. And unless you know who all my team members are a contract that nobody really knows what our volume is except from our Remax broker when we do that it's just it's real simple. I've been there done that with the big team in big volume and I want my agents to really get all the accolades that they worked so hard to get. So it's not just the you know I'm selfless I'd love to have you know all that production under my name but it's time for them to to you know they're just so proud when they go over a certain landmark and have a certain level of production I've got six agents that work for me and for make very good incomes very good incomes. [00:04:03] We know that integrity I have to. [00:04:06] So for the folks listening when we first got started we do a unique thing with with our services over at Master grammar and in identifying people who respond to a postcard. And I remember one of your friends that you helped you with marketing and then a coach. I think for many years he came out with something that you thought he kind of was trying to knock us off and you got so upset with him. I mean you were telling me you weren't talking to him on that and I had to hold you back but your integrity of the fact that someone would possibly take something you had shared and then turn around and use it you know and try to duplicate something I don't know if you recall that but. But when you were talking about your agents and letting them keep their own production and so it shows off for their record and share years I just think that you know that's what makes you so special in my eyes. Is it just that level of integrity. Well thank you that's not for me to say. So let's hope this is real quick. So you've got a you've got a thriving business and you've got a well honed machine. In terms of how you do it. Tell me where you generate money because I know you're talking about different different income streams. So can you kind of give me a breakdown right. [00:05:31] In Europe we've really gotten it down to a general. We've got it down to a science. But the processes that we take are consistent. It's not exciting but consistency means a lot. And I'm really trying to get that through to each of my agents and we have I say we. Want when I say we I'm talking about me and my staff and in my mind it's really kind of try to model what I do. But I have four areas of income. It all comes from marketing. I've got a farm area. I have a niche which is an expanded farm area meaning a specialization in a type of property. And I've got my past clients and customers. And then I've got my online market. So those are my excuse me those are my four sources of income. My agents really try to model that in in in growing their businesses. They're doing a great job I said for the six had really high incomes well a fifth one just hit a milestone. He did more business in the last two months and most able to do in two years so. Wow. Got it for him. [00:06:38] So if you were to take those four income streams and kind of rank them how would you write them from top to best production down lowest production. [00:06:48] So the top two without question has clients and customers and that should be everybody's first source but my niche is extremely lucrative so there are years when I'll make more money from my niche than I do from my past clients and customers. In an area of specialization. One of my agents for example specializes in townhomes. Another one specializes in homes with views. [00:07:11] I specialize in homes on an acre or more and so the members of that particular population see me as someone who has an expertise that they need. We don't just want them to think well you know it'd be nice if we had that. We want to create a need. So because of my expertise in that arena sellers call me and quite often I'm the only one I talk to. [00:07:38] Very interesting so talk to me in terms of what you do in marketing. If you were to do do something different for your personal list and your your one acre plus. [00:07:47] And if so what would you do. [00:07:49] Yes well so I'm going to I don't know going to break down the niche in the farm because really they're very similar but the niche is just more lucrative unless you have a farm that has twenty five hundred five thousand houses and you can just keep growing it. But my niche you can just keep growing. So I've got an agent in another part of town that I'm not going to grab down there but he takes care of all the one acre plus clients in that part of town. So there are really three areas of marketing in a niche or a farm number one is the general population of that niche right. In other words the areas that you want to work the locations et cetera. The second is what I call a targeted and guess who needs to sell their home on acreage probably more than anybody else. When that time comes. Seniors. So I target people who have an exemption of 65 or more a tax exemption. And we market to them when they need to sell their home on it. Could you give us a call. The third is expires. Anyone whose home has expired in the last several years but they've never listed again. We market two very strongly and that's a very powerful database. So those are the three. Now if you're talking about a farm you have three different ones. You've got the general farm then you've got the expired. Same thing. And I'm going to tell you how powerful this is maybe in stopped me if you want me to quit rambling you want to ask a question but let me tell you a powerful. I've got a farm with eight hundred and ninety three people and I have 74 people who have expired in the last three years and never we listed out as more people from this group of 74 than the rest of the eight ninety three. Really. Yes because differently to them than we do the rest of the farm. [00:09:42] So like how do you market differently because most of the times when you're marketing to expire says you're on the phone and calling them as soon as they expire and you try to drop by and you're doing something different. [00:09:56] You don't need to do that with these because here's the thing. If I'm marketing to the farm all eight hundred and ninety three people almost people who expire are getting that mailing. Right. But then I'm marketing to the 74. In addition in sending marketing pieces that are poignant to somebody who's had their home inspired. That makes sense. [00:10:20] It does. But let's elaborate a little bit more because I think this goes into. [00:10:24] You were talking about when connect two very divergent dots years back you were doing a lot of postcard mailings and then you understood and learned marketing. And it turned your business around here you're talking about doing something different for those in. But I have an idea that the concept between both of these is a same concept. [00:10:47] Can you take it give an example to the general farm area. I may send a marketing piece that compels a response to go to a landing page to learn about something like my new level of service to an expired. They're going to receive a postcard specifically about a home that says this home was listed with another agent for six months and then Stuart listed it and sold it in eight days. So the very best marketing I can do for expired is to show them success with somebody that was in their exact situation. [00:11:22] That makes sense so you're making it very specific to them. [00:11:28] So you're marketing to the entire farm and then these that are experts you're sending additional marketing pieces. But I guess most of these are saying this home was on the market for all these days or months and then I sold it. And so they're constantly saying that you were successful. In the same environment that they were a failure that the previous right. [00:11:50] That's right. And then the third area of a farm is out of town owners in some farms have a lot more of them printed on the price range and all that. But so we sent unique marketing pieces to people who don't live in the house they own in the farm area. So you've got the general farm population expired in the farm and they had a town owners in the farm. And those are three specific marketing databases Wow. [00:12:21] So you're kind of the word that comes to mind is pass and you're really passing that market and then very specifically targeting them for their unique needs. [00:12:34] Right. For example if you if you owned a rent house in my farm you'd get a mailing that said hey if you decide to sell your rent house in this area you need to make sure you qualify. And so if you're in out of town owner you're going to receive a card that speaks to you. And I actually offer a guarantee to you because what is the problem that out of town owners have. Well they don't know their houses are vacant they don't know what's going on with it. Well we guarantee that we're going to check in every week and send you a check list showing hey all the lights are working. The doors are locking the windows are more thermostats. We have a whole checklist. So we're going to we have a guarantee that we're going to do that for you every single week that your home is on the market with us. And if we miss any single week or Market Commission at 100 bucks. [00:13:23] Wow. So now as I'm listening you go through this the thought that hits me that may be hitting some other folks is this is a lot of work. I mean it's not just you know go to this Web site a peer upload it just sell photo send it out and then go about your way over here you're actually spending time creating these pieces. [00:13:44] Yes sir. Yes sir. Now once we have a good marketing piece in place blog company we can just adapt and edit and make some changes. Yes OK. You know there's a lot of work in setting up any cash flow system any income stream. There's a lot of work and get this set up. Maintenance becomes a different story. And that's why I can work 35 to 40 hours a week because I'm maintaining several systems that I've had in place for years. [00:14:09] That makes sense I was going to ask you that kind of leading the follow up question to that leading question. Yes it takes a lot of work. My question was going to ask does it make a lot of money. [00:14:19] Well you know what I I'm very blessed to be one of those guys I decided. You remember the book that came out about how to. Be a Millionaire in your underwear. You remember that book. [00:14:29] I remember something like that. Yes. [00:14:31] And that might not be the exact power. I'm blessed to be one of those guys that can sit at home in work literally wearing shorts and flip flops until it's time for an appointment. Then I'll get up and put on a suit. Yes I can do that and I'm very blessed to be in the position where I can work on my schedule on my terms and make a very nice income. [00:14:53] All right so let's talk on because one dig a little bit deeper in if you don't mind the concept of marketing OK. [00:15:03] You learned something from at one point in time that when you applied it to your existing mailings it totally turned everything around. And and that's the same stuff that you're applying right now. Can you help those who are listening to kind of understand marketing at a really simple level so that those people who say this is a lot of work. I don't know even where to begin in kind of give them a starting point. Does that make sense why I'm asking. [00:15:28] Yeah it does and the overall most simple basic marketing world is find out what people want and need. Make it easy for them to get. And the biggest thing that anyone ever taught me. You may. You did meet Randy Smith was really a marketing mentor. Brilliant marketer took all the marketing rules outside of real estate and brought them into real estate. And that's what I try to teach my agents to do. But it's very straightforward. Quit selling and start solving. So what is the problem that the consumer has and how can you solve it. And the easiest example of that ever is Domino's Pizza they were the first ones to guarantee delivery and a certain amount of time because they solved the problem what were their consumers BIGGEST PROBLEM. WELL DIDN'T GET THROWN type atomic out there. It was cold and without it the worst thing is it got there late. It was cold and they still had to pay for it. So what was their marketing like. It was. It's fast it's hot or it's free. Remember that. [00:16:40] I do. I do a date. [00:16:42] Same thing in real estate. You're an out of town owner. Your biggest problem is hate. I don't know what's going on with my house I don't know. I mean we have some either myself or my assistant. We'll check on your vacant house every single week and we guarantee to do that. So we've solved a problem that every agent could solve but nobody else has put it into words. Does that make sense. [00:17:04] Yeah it does give me a couple other examples so that those listening can kind of grasp and start to apply in their own situation where they can where they can use it. [00:17:16] So what's a problem for a home seller who's just thinking about selling a home. They're not quite sure OK what can I get this call all the time and I'm sure a lot of other agents do as well. And that's what do we do to get our house ready. Where should we spend our time and money. Well we have a program where we actually provide a stager an inspector handyman a painter a window washer at our expense to get your home ready for the market. So now instead of well what do we do. [00:17:45] What do we do how do we do it. Who do we call. What what's it going to cost. We've solved that for you so instead of just selling selling selling we're solving solving solving so the more problems we solve for you the more chance you're going to. [00:18:00] Very interesting. [00:18:01] What are some other examples that you can give me. [00:18:07] Well I've just had one situation where if this hasn't been the market for this was the most recent. That's why I'm bringing it up for nearly a year with three other agents. They call this obvious now if one of our marketing pieces I went out and the house was vacant carpet in the master was wavy. I've just paid a carpet stretcher to come in and stretch it. I carpet cleaners to clean it. The patio was extended. Very nice big but it was all stained. I had a handyman coming in power watch it had a crew come in and clean the house because it was bacon. Kind of you know you start to see bugs and cock and other agents have had this home on the market in this condition. We sold in sixteen days. So basically what we're doing is stepping in that owner's out of town. You know how hard it is to coordinate that type of thing. You know it's done and make sure they're paid. We took care of all that. We paid all we coordinated them. We scheduled them to put the house in condition to show. I mean to sell destiny. [00:19:10] So if you and so if you take all the things you do in terms of marketing what you know some people running Facebook ads and some people running getting you know they're there doing email blast and all kinds of things. When you say marketing are you talking about all these things are you talking about something down this channel or that includes all those postcards and mailings. [00:19:37] I still believe very strongly in mailings and in a lot of my income comes from maintenance. I've just got a mailing. This is I don't know if you only take the time and all that but literally a couple months ago from a little company that made me feel like mailings work because Google sent me a postcard. Wow that's very hard trying to get me to use Google AdWords. [00:20:03] A lot of people send in postcards I think and they work they they must I know we send a lot of postcards and they do work so well let's shift gears a little bit and I want to talk about balance in your life because one of the things that when you and I had first started talking you were sharing and this is a first in 2012 2013. You spent a lot of time with your family as a realtor and and a lot of there's a lot of struggle especially you know everyone straight commission and fighting for the next deal. And so the idea of being available almost like 24/7. Yeah. We'll ask an agent know hey how is your weekend they look at me and go what's a weekend. Okay talk to me in terms about how you bring balance to your life as a real estate agent. [00:20:53] That's that's a great question. It truly is a challenge for most people in this business. It's a matter of fact a friend of my son was getting into real estate or is getting into real estate and he asked if I'd have lunch with them and they were interviewing. And just having lunch with a few top agents around our market and they asked me. OK so tell us about your schedule and you know weekends and evenings and I said well at work we can tell you said really. So what about your phone you always interested. Well if I'm with my family I do not answer my phone because I want my family and my kids to know you're more important than anything else that's going on here. Now my family understands I'm in the real estate business. So even when we're on vacation I'll set a time of the day when I return calls. But if we're out and they said you know what. We just talked to another agent she said she was in Paris France not Texas. Well I'll be with her family. She got a call. She took it. He goes I'm in real estate I take my call. I just feel differently about it. So I do not as quick work on Sundays. Many many many years ago when my first son was born I quit work in 30 days and let my wife have a whole day off and spend it with him and we took that through both sons and it it's just it's just too important. Guess what. I've never lost any business that I know of because I've put my family as a priority. [00:22:21] Wow. [00:22:22] So there are two things running through my mind on this one is what's the motivation to be that determined that deliberate. And number two the other thing running through my mind is the risk because you know you're potentially losing business. So help me understand those two things that makes sense. [00:22:45] It does. And I'm going to be kind of straightforward and blunt place. I believe that there are two words to start with that that are really really important and one is fear and one's faith. And I have faith that my father in heaven is going to provide. And I don't fear that I'm not going to get business because my faith overrides that fear and I'm not. Believe me I'm not always successful that because fear can certainly creep in. But this is a business where if you don't depend on faith it's going to be a much more difficult road to hoe. So I've always depended on the fact that my father's been blessed us our family and that if I go about doing my business in a way that I believe is is pleasing to him then we're not going to have to have that fear. [00:23:38] That makes a lot of sense. We we do a lot that sells on our own as you know. [00:23:44] Talk to me a little bit more than about your faith and really kind of how it drives your business or maybe how how your faith drives you in your business. Does that make you kind of talk a bit more on that. [00:23:57] No I would say it's the real estate business is it is a challenging one. And I really preach to my agents that you know faith is is really really important as far as pay if you do what you're supposed to do. You can't be afraid that you're going to fail at it. So that that step by step faith over fear is something that we're always working on. [00:24:23] But the way we handle our business is is not I know this going to sound trite but it's not money driven. Do I have financial goals. Absolutely. Do I have financial obligations. Absolutely. [00:24:38] But I've got a song on my wall over here that says the more you serve others the more successful you will be. [00:24:47] And I just believe that in my heart. So we treat each situation in a unique way that has to do with that client. And we don't ever. My team and I for example we collect money we contribute our own money to make house payments for people in need. You know a lot of people you know hit a time in their lives when they need a helping hand. And we don't. We've had many people want to help give publicity to us for that. And we've always refused. That's just a part of something we feel like we should do. So as a teen we call it our house payment program. Once a lot to have someone asked me to come do some training. What. What do you charge. And I'll say it was instead of me charging a fee you in your office contribute to our house payment program. [00:25:40] Now give a little pitch about what it is and tell me about some of the people that we've helped. We helped a fireman a year before last who had a devastating accident and couldn't work for some time. And yes he had some some income come in from you know disability and all that but it didn't really cover all their bills so we helped make their house. We had a family grandparents who lost their children in a car wreck and took in their five grandchildren. And you talk about financial struggles. We've stepped in and helped them make house payments. So those are the kind of things that we we feel like or part of what we need to be doing. As you know it's part of our business. [00:26:25] That's really neat. [00:26:26] You know the whole idea of trusting in giving is it resonates really with me a lot because you know our business over the years we've been in business for 20 to two years I think it is now and we've seen some highs and we've seen some lows and even in the lows I advised it out. I'll tell you this story because this is years back so I can't take really any credit but we at that time we gave a real high percentage of of every profit every dollar we made whatever I took out and whatever the company made is profit. And every month we would give it into ministry and we had this client that was 70 percent of our volume and about one hundred and some odd percent of our profits and they were scheduled to leave about three four months from now. It was a term contract. And so we kept giving and you know storing nothing up. Now it's talking to a friend of mine who's a another Christian businessman and his name is building said Betty I believe in trusting God but I've never put myself in a position where I had to. And but you know this whole this whole lifestyle of you taking the day off or doing these things you know helping other people out and just really trusting your fate to your faith in the Lord. [00:27:57] I just think it's it's it's it's freeing isn't it it makes all the difference it makes doing this business of pleasure it really does. And not being tied to that commission is is everything. And I may have shared this one with you I had a client you know I've had this happen several times over the years but one I think I shared with you I had a client that the Commission on their house was just shot fourteen thousand dollars like thirteen thousand nine hundred. And they were in having some difficult financial struggles. And when we got to the closing after their escrow because yes we should know the pay off and they told me what the payoff was and when it got to it they did not share with me that they were behind payments. [00:28:45] So after paying off their loan that was thirteen hundred and twenty seven dollars left. Now they have paid my commission they have had to come out of pocket twelve thousand plus I didn't have it so I said we're fine. No I'm not depending on this commission you know to make my house payment and I believe that you guys can go in close I believe that you should have this burden lifted from you and in the you know if I can ever help you again I'm I'm here to help and I can tell you a lot of people would think that you twelve grand you can I didn't give up twelve grand I didn't have twelve grand I helped somebody in a situation and I came out you know thirteen but to hit thirteen hundred dollars hit you know and they still for referred me business to this day so that's just the way I approach each of those commissions it's it's not money driven it's people and again am I. [00:29:52] Do I fall short of that. [00:29:53] Of course I do but it's nice to step back in and I pray every single day that God will put people in my path that I can serve on his behalf do you do anything else with your faith in how you engage with clients on an ongoing basis I know like when we bought our house you know our realtor really super lady loves the Lord and so you know we're at the kitchen table of the house that we now own and filling out the the offer and so she said hey let's just pray over this I'm thinking you know what a great way to do it how do you do you live it out in any way like that strategically it's not great with many clients over the years and I do have it I call it my pre listening package which has enough every single cell in it has a a page in it that basically espouses my faith and lets them know that we depend on God for all of our blessings and we put him first and that's in every marketing package that we send that I love that so you don't you obviously don't subscribe to the idea that he has your faith here and you have your work here and they need to be separated right. I'm not sure that's possible I don't think it is. One last question just saw as we're on this topic and there you may not have anything or you may not have anything that you care to share but you know a lot of times as a realtor or even just as a husband and a father you go through struggles and and there are times when you just have to. You fall on your knees and the Lord just really carries you through is there anything that stands out that you would like to share in terms of the impact of your relationship with Christ as you go through struggles absolutely no question that he has brought us through many difficult times. [00:32:01] I still remember many years ago when we were in danger of not being able to make our house payments. This was before we had kids. Not to say that it's been a cakewalk since and because it hadn't but I still remember Rebecca and I and I bless her. She is the most incredible prayer warrior. I still remember sitting at a table approaching midnight praying about whether we should get out and try to find no less smaller house and find a way to move bills aside and find a way to find a way to do all that. So as we as we prayed through that and continued to over time we just felt we knew what what what he wanted. And so we continued on the path that we were on in and we're just blessed with you know the relief of that art. I still remember back then going you know what. I don't know anybody that does this much business with real estate but I'm truly. Again it's not one of those. Oh well if you believe in God and Carville he'll bless you and give you a lot of money that's not what it was at all we were willing we went look at smaller houses and we went and looked at different ways to lower our last home. [00:33:23] We weren't leaving an exciting lifestyle by any means but we just hit. Been in some tough roll snake markets when interest rate 10 percent. I've been I've been in three crashes over my career but we just felt truly comfortable that we should you know stay on the path that we were on. So we did he blessed us. My business flourished in a time when you would never expect it in. A couple of years after that we had kids and just moved on down that line. But one of the best things that I remember is I asked my kids questions all Thompson. Come on. But I said if you were to say one thing about your mom and your dad that you remembered us for what would that be. And I shared what I remember my parents for in the thing that I I'm really just overwhelmingly touched by. [00:34:17] Is one of my sensitive you said you know you have an incredible work ethic but you do it for a reason and that reason is your family and God. [00:34:33] If that's the way he remembers me you know I'll be very happy. [00:34:38] What a legacy. What a legacy on that. [00:34:42] That's great. You know our children. They pick up more from what we do than what we say. Yeah. Let's talk on one more thing if you don't mind. [00:34:54] You've been married for how long thirty three years. [00:34:57] Thirty three years. And if I'm approaching an area let me know and we can edit this part out but I want to talk in terms of a marriage that's founded on Christ. And can you talk anything on that. You know how's your relationship and and what do you consider kind of the core reasons for the relationship being as it is wow you aren't getting big. [00:35:26] You know it's it's incredibly comforting to know that my wife's faith is is so strong in that she doesn't necessarily depend on me for her happiness and gratification. She depends on our Lord and in the same way with me. We we both know that our marriage is is. I mean it's wonderful. Now have we had some tough time yet. Absolutely I don't. Yes I really know of anybody money. But the bottom line is is we both know that supporting each other based on and our prayer is always that the decisions we make will be in our mortgage will and that's the decision we make for our kids. That's the decisions we make business decisions we make for each other and her faithfulness over the years it's just been an inspiration to me. [00:36:27] You know I I I stepped in here without really having much knowledge but I felt I was safe in that direction because I'm similar. [00:36:37] We're married a lot fewer years where I'm coming on our 26 anniversary on. But what's really interesting is our love for each other is so much stronger today than it was years back. There's never been a time we haven't been in love but it's gotten a lot stronger Yelp experience. [00:36:56] Absolutely. Absolutely no question about it. It does matter fact. We have been talking about that recently. You know we're empty nesters and you know wow I was afraid how it's going to come up with me. You know when the kids are gone. But we we've just grown closer and stronger as the years go by. [00:37:13] You know one of the things that someone taught me years back he said kind of a triangle put God at the top. [00:37:19] And then the two lines coming down is the husband and wife and as each husband and wife seeks and they get closer and closer together. So that's kind of what I attribute. And I have to tell you an interesting story. One of the members in our separate club that church is a he's a pastor. He came from pastoring his own church and now being an assistant pastor in our church and in his area of ministry as a pastor. A lot of challenges relating to divorce and moving into divorce. Now he's asking in this quiet house because I'm using this concept and I'm saying has there ever been a time that you recall anyone going through the process of divorce or considering divorce where one or both of those people had been consistently seeking the Lord and he said no he cannot recall and that I think has been the about bedrock for our relationship as I would imagine for years. [00:38:26] Very good. That's that's a good one thank you. [00:38:30] Well we kind of probably need to wrap up a little bit is there and we start on a real marketing side and excited now we're kind of mellow down and talking to about really the most important things in life. But is there anything that's been on your mind or anything you've thought about that you'd like to share before we wrap up anything that on any topic or anything. This is your chance to shine. [00:38:55] Well I can tell you that the more people like you that I'm able to work with who have a faith in a belief like mine the Better Business is. So being able to talk openly with you in I know I don't know how much people watching us know about you but if they've never heard you teach scripture you're an amazing teacher but they might have friends. My broker people on my team and people involved in my business be able to pray together vehicle to encourage each other to be able to you know share in challenges and in victories and give that glory to God rather than to ourselves. We understand that. I mean the guy that I've told you about just had a breakthrough with an incredible couple months and then couldn't himself or any of he feels and knows that it's it's a blessing. And he put in the work and God bless him with the results in total surround yourself with people that that really makes the real estate business very different and a more enjoyable career than if if you're not. [00:40:17] Yes it does. [00:40:18] And to work with people like you like mine makes my work all the more meaning that frequently I go you know what's the purpose of it. You know it's just money right now. Is there any eternal purpose and the Lord keeps reminding me. Yes but you need to be a full time minister secretly disguised as a business owner and you do a great job of that. Well I don't know. He's been spiking me a little bit saying you haven't done it the way I've asked you to. So we're working on that. Well Stuart I've really enjoyed visiting with you and thank you for sharing your time. And for those who are listening or watching if you like this please Subscribe or like us and they come back as we interview more people. So Stuart and have a great day and be blessed. [00:41:10] Thank you. You too. [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

Season finale! We'll recap the semis and finals of Tiers 1 and 2. Then I'll give my 1st and 2nd all-league teams

HOW DO I FIND MORE PROSPECTS?   One of the topics I get asked about the most is, "Steven, how do I find more prospects?"   Obviously, this is one of the biggest questions that ALL MLMers have. It makes sense.   I remember the first MLM I ever joined. I went and I talked to friends and family… This was years ago. I literally walked down Main Street.   When I was done, the biggest question that I had was, “How on earth do I find more people to go and pitch? How do I find more people who are interested in this?”   Traditionally MLM says, “Go get your friends and family and get them on the phone call with me. When they come in, go get their friends and family.” We are all each others lead generation.   Here’s the problem.   You end up getting a lot of people who are not actually that interested.   I remember sitting on a couch in a cold apartment when I was in college. It was freezing. It was the middle of wintertime at 2AM.   I had this thought, "What if I was to combine a lot of what the info product model is on the internet with MLM? What if I was to use some of those to go and sift and pull people who are more likely interested in what I'm doing?"   And that's exactly what I did.   HOW DO I FIND MORE PEOPLE FOR MY MLM?   That's EXACTLY what Secret MLM Hacks is. It teaches those methods. I get this kind of question all the time from people in the course. They're asking, "Steven, how do I get more and more people?"   That's covered in depth in the course itself, but I took the time to go a little bit more in depth.   I want to walk you through a few specific strategies. If these sound like, "Whoa. Why would you do that?", understand the reason that my stuff's been doing so well is because I follow the info product model.   I attached MLM to the info product model.   A lot of what I encourage people to do is create. "I would create this, and I'd put this together, and I'd do this." They're not orthodox.   It's very unorthodox ways of pulling out leads and getting people to you.   I'm still getting three to four people asking to join my downline PER DAY that I've never met.   This has been WORKING, and we're about to hit nine hundred people. That's a lot of people, man!   I get to choose the people that I think will be good for the team, rather than me going to them and saying, "Please join my downline. Please, join my downline. I need the commission."   I don't have to do that crap any more, and I haven't had to for a long time now.   LEAD GENERATION IN MLM   For those of you who don’t know, Secret MLM Hacks is a program for those of you guys who want to do more things on the internet and actually bring people to you. A lot of it involves building what we call a sales funnel. It shows you how to do that, how to put all the stuff together, how to position yourself in the market, how to actually do marketing in general. How to make yourself an authority figure in the MLM space. There's a soft pitch for it. I'm just telling you in case you're interested. Go to secretmlmhacks.com.   The way I generate leads for my MLM is by creating products that are a little bit more pricey. Not really high, but somewhere in the middle. People pay for it.   After that, I introduce them, "Hey, you want to join my downline?"   BOOM! That is what feeds the application funnel… mostly. The only other place that they learn about where to apply to join my downline is my podcast.   Some people are just like, "Man, I love this guy. I would listen to all 80 episodes of this dude. He's in my ears. This is incredible. Everything he says is awesome. I want more of his stuff. How do I join his team."   They'll just go right in and join. That's awesome.   I'm trying to do is two things: Get paid to prospect, okay. Pay more to acquire a customer then entire MLMs can…   Because MLMs don't know how to do this stuff!   MLM INFO PRODUCT MODEL   They have no idea how to do any of this. I treat my MLM like a product. It’s a REAL business.   Not just like, "Yeah, come do a little hobby." NO. If I can tell it's a hobby for you, you're not in my downline.   I'm here to grow. I'm here to explode. I'm here for dominators. I want to take over. That's my mentality.   I'm vetting people out through the application itself. I'm reading their applications like, "Man, this guy seems lazy." Gone. I'm getting paid for my time by doing a paid prospecting product. That vets out customers. That gets rid of the time wasters and leaves the people that I want in my downline. The people who are going to kill it and treat this like a business, not a hobby. I want to be able to spend more to acquire customer than ENTIRE MLMs are able to. I'm already doing that and I'm only one guy. I'm spending more than whole MLMs to be in front of people. From a content and time perspective and an actual money cost to acquire ads perspective.   I have those people apply to join my downline. "Hey, go to the recruiting funnel." Awesome.   That's the strategy. I want to soak up hot market first. That's the easy money on the table.   Don't trip over dollars to pick up pennies.   There are people who love you, who want to be a part of your world already. Let them.. IN Buy from you Join your stuff Understand who you are Get close to you That's awesome. Most of the time you're building your front line leadership.   HOW DO I FIND MORE PROSPECTS IN MLM?   But pretty soon… even the best marketers run out of people.   I have to figure out how to widen the pot a little bit and explore the warm market. That's when I start creating small front end offers.   PS - You’re going to start seeing me do that here in the next three months. I’m making a whole bunch of small front end products. They're not to make me money. It's to attract more people to me.   Some people are like, "This guy's awesome. Let me listen to his podcast, see if he really knows what is up." Some people are going to love you instantly.   Other people might be like, "Let's see what else he's got." And they might buy your other thing.   I'm providing multiple options for people to purchase and give cash as a way to raise their hand and say, "I'm serious about this."   When someone starts out at the bottom, that’s typically very detrimental. They can't spend any money, there's no leeway.   Don't start at the bottom. But also, please don't think that it's always set in stone. Some people are like, "Man, I'm going to make something mid-tier and then I'm going to go down straight to the bottom." That's fine, if that's what you really want to go do.   But honestly, what I like to do is think through and be like, "What would get people so freaking excited?”   What is sexy that I can hand people to and they're like, "Man, I want to be a part of that. I want more of this guy. This guy's awesome."   They go in and they buy that and THEN I'll introduce them. Typically in that order.   HOW DO I FIND MORE PROSPECTS FOR MY DOWNLINE?   I want people to know what I'm about and what I'm NOT about.   I'm not going to be standing here teaching them, "When you're face-to-face with your friends and family, here's three phrases you can say to mind control somebody into your downline."   I HATE those books.   I have a bookshelf and one of the shelves is half-full of GARBAGE like that from ‘experts’ in this industry.   [I'm throwing a rock right now]   I THINK IT’S DUMB.   I don't believe in mind control BUT I do believe in persuasion. The way I bring somebody in determines what they're going to do afterwards.   If I make it easy for them to come in, I make it easy for them to fail.   If I make it harder for them to join my downline and there's all these little tiny obstacles that I'm like, "Hey, are you really a good fit? And if you're not, are you willing to be moldable quickly into a good fit?" Remember, I'm building my business.   HOW DO I FIND MORE PEOPLE FOR MY DOWNLINE?   All these things that happen before you join my downline are there to set up a ramp.   I was in the army and I went to basic training. When I went to basic training I was 25. Okay?   I was already 25 years old, I was in college, I was married, I had a kid.   99% of everyone else who was there was 17 years old and a high school dropout.   The mentalities are 100% different. The way we came in mattered greatly on the outcome.   A lot of these guys would try and fight me as soon as the Drill Sergeants turned around. For real.   Papa Larsen's a big boy. I can take care of myself.   Because of the way I came in, the Drill Sergeants put me in charge of stuff for freaking ever because they trusted me. It's the exact same principle.   I do not want just anyone to come in my downline. I'm building rock stars.   There’s a reason I'm being stickler with the way people enter. It determines how successful they’re going to be.     I don't want to cattle prod people to get them to take action.

We've got more interviews from CES, starting with one with Omnicharge about their portable power banks that allow us to charge USB-C-enabled laptops directly. Then I'll tell you the tale of the rabbit hole I fell down when trying to use Markdown in a locally-hosted WordPress installation on my Mac so that I could show it in a video tutorial about MarsEdit for ScreenCasts Online. We'll hear about Targus's up and coming video docking stations that will provide more video out than you may have seen before. We'll hear about how Bitdefender BOX 2 might help to secure your network from within your house. Then Bart Busschots is back with another installment of Security Bits.

This meditation will help you get into your souls energy, into your souls vibration. We start out by feeling the energy within our bodies and then begin to feel energy above our heads. This energy above your head is your souls true vibration, as much as we can feel it here on Earth. This is also called a state of high vibration, a blissed out state, theta state. It is a state of healing and health.   Use this meditation daily in the morning to set your energy, and come back to it at anytime throughout your day when you need to shift your energy, re-align with your higher-self, or simply when you need to bring some calm into your day.   Connect with Julie   Website www.jancius.com   Instagram www.instagram.com/angelpodcast/   Facebook www.facebook.com/angelpodcast/   YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLOL5Dgsssv7A4C7SLvyqWg?view_as=subscriber   THANKS TO Julie Riddle of Riddle Road Photography Anne Goodrich Graphic Designs David Burr Podcast Editor   SHOW NOTES [00:00:05] Hello friends. Welcome to the Angels and Awakening podcast. I'm your host Julie Jancius. We're keeping the podcast really short today. It's just the meditation I was telling you about in Episodes 1 and 2. I'm doing this on purpose so that you can come back at any time. Listen to this podcast and get into a blissed out state or simply shift your energy   [00:00:30] If you can try to do this meditation every day so that you can go deeper and deeper into it.   [00:00:36] And so you can feel more and more this is your homework from Spirit.   [00:00:42] One more thing you'll need to be seated and in a place where you can close your eyes and be free from all distractions and responsibilities. It's best to have quiet if you can. Do not play this meditation or use this meditation in the car or while operating machinery or completing responsibilities where you need to focus. OK if you're in a place and time where you're free from all distractions. Please start by taking a seat. It could be in a chair on the couch or on the side of your bed. You want both of your feet on the floor and it's OK if you're wearing shoes. You'll also want to sit up tall and upright with good posture and with the gaze of your eyes looking directly ahead in front of you. As we do this meditation. I want you to continue to breathe deeply in and out. Now close your eyes and start by taking too deep inhales and too deep exhales.   [00:02:06] Now I want you to imagine that out of the bottom of your feet the soles of your feet are these large roots that go down from your body into the earth. These roots go down far and wide   [00:02:21] As if you were a tree and those roots are anchoring you to the ground. Feel those roots as they go down through the soil. Past the rocks and the earth. Down to a deep reservoir of water. Those roots begin to tangle with beautiful earth energy. Feel as those tingles come up those roots and start to tingle at the tip of your toes. I want you to allow those tingles to crawl up your feet. Around your ankles. Up over your calves and shins. Feel those tingles at your knees. Take a moment and let them crawl up your thighs your hamstrings. All the way up to the sides of your hips. Now bring that yummy tingly energy to the base of your spine and the base of your stomach. Allow those tingles to crawl up the spine and the stomach until they reach your heart. Feel those tingles as they surround the outside of your heart and as they fill the inside of your heart. And as they do your body comes into a gentle state of ease.   [00:04:12] Take a moment and tune into your body. Notice as your head melts into your shoulders. And how your shoulders soften and relax   [00:04:29] Feel the energy in your arms and in your hands as they melt into your lap.   [00:04:38] Feel your legs and your feet as they relax into the floor.   [00:04:47] Your body is now in a complete state of ease. Return your attention to your heart. Feeling the tingles that both surround and fill your heart. Let these tingles climb up into your shoulders   [00:05:13] Into your neck. Then let them fill your entire head. Front. To back. Side to side. Top. To bottom   [00:05:30] From here. You can feel this yummy tingly energy from head to toe.   [00:05:41] This is the set point to vibration within your body. We can take this one step further by feeling the tingles in our heads letting them crawl up through our hair follicles. And feeling that tingly energy two inches or even higher off the tops of our heads.   [00:06:08] Now this energy above your head might feel different. It might feel like it's lifting you upward.   [00:06:15] It might feel spacious or expansive. That's all normal. I want you to stay in this state for a few moments. You're going to hear silence as here in this state. Then I'll come back to end this meditation. But what I want you to do right now is keep your attention on this tingly vibration above your head for as long as you can.   [00:06:40] If your mind wanders and you catch it just to redirect your attention to the tingles above your head. OK do this now   [00:07:50] One more time. Bring your attention back to the tingly energy that sits two inches or higher above the top of your head.   [00:07:59] What did you feel the last few moments. Did you feel like the energy was lifting you upward. Did you feel the vast amount of space and expansiveness and this energy. Did you feel love joy peace bliss and ease take a moment to recount to yourself what you felt   [00:08:30] Now friends. Take a deep breath with me. This meditation is the type of homework you want to do the more you do this meditation the more you will hold this vibration until you get to the point where one day you don't need the meditation anymore. You'll know when that time comes because you'll be able to say or think I want to feel the tingles above my head and then you will and then you can go about your day doing your work while you live in that vibration   [00:09:17] Until till then continue to use this meditation every morning and come back to it whenever you need to shift your energy throughout your day one more time. Deep breath in deep breath out   [00:09:35] If you haven't been told yet today you are so beautiful you are a radiant soul with great purpose here and you are so loved.   [00:09:47] Your angels love you your spirit team loves you and I love you. Thank you for spending some time with me. Go on to have a magnificent rest of your day as your spirit team send you peace bless. And many many blessings.   KEY WORDS: God, Universe, Source, Spirit, Guardian Angel, Angel, Angel Message, Angel Messages, Angel Reader, Angel Readers, Angel Whisper, Angels, Anxiety, Archangel, Archangels, Arch Angel, Archangel Gabriel, Archangel Michael, Archangel Raphael, Ask Angels, Attraction, Law of Attraction, The Secret, Oprah, Super Soul Sunday, Soul Sunday, Aura, Aura Field, Author, Awakening, Being, Bliss, Bible, Bible Verse, Bliss and Grit, Buddhism, Catholic, Chakra, Chalene, Change Your Life, Chicago, Naperville, Wheaton, Chicagoland, Christian, Christianity, Church, Pastor, Preacher, Priest, Co Create, cocreate, Consciousness, Spirit Guide, counselor, therapist, Dax Shepard, Death, Depression, Died, Grief, Divine, Doctor, Dream, Angel Therapy, Gabrielle Bernstein, Ego, Empath, Energy, Energy Healing, Enlightened, Zen, Enlightenment, Enneagram, Fabulous, Faith Hunter, Family, Feelings, Goal Digger, Jenna Kutcher, Ancient wisdom, Brandon Beachum, girl boss, badass, life coach, sivana, good, gratitude, great, school of greatness, greatness, the school of greatness, lewis howes, the Charlene show, rise podcast, Rachel Hollis, Tony Robbins, the Tony Robbins Podcast, guardian angels, guides, happy, happier, happiness, Hay House, summit, hayhouse, healed, healing, health, heart, heart math, heaven, help, high vibration, higher self, highest self, holy, I AM, illness, inner peace, inspiration, intention, intuitive, jewish, joy, Julia Treat, Julie Jancius, learn, lesson, light worker, Louise Hay, Love, Marriage, Magical, Manifest, Manifesting, Marie Kondo, Master Class, Meditate, Meditation, Medium, Mediumship, the Long Island Medium, the Hollywood Medium, Message, Metaphysics, ACIM, A Course In Miracles, Method, Mindful, Mindfulness, Miracles, Mom, Motherhood, Naturopath, New Age, Passed Away, Past Lives, Peace, Positive, Power, Pray, Prayer, Prosperity, Psychic, Psychic Medium, Psychology, Purpose, Quantum Physics, Life Purpose, Ray of Light, Reiki, Relax, Religion, Robcast, Sadness, Depression, Sahara Rose, School, Science, Shaman Durek, Shift, Sleep, Soul, Source, Spirit, Spirit Team, Spiritual, Spiritual Awakening, Spiritual Gifts, Spirituality, Stress, Synchronicity, Tara Williams, Tarot, Teacher, Thinking, Thoughts, Transcended State, Transcendence, Universe, Vibration, Vortex, Wellness, Worry, Worship, Yoga, Zen, Afterlife.

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Today on Radio Ignite Live - Thinktank Thursday... Today, we will discuss raising prices in a new year and dieting that doesn't work. Raising Prices From our experience, many bookkeeping professionals and tax preparers are under-charging for their services. We help them change that (Get the Book "Pricing Your Practice, see below) by increasing their prices over time and adding new services and new clients at a new, higher rate. They are often surprised by the positive results. We'll talk about it today and answer your questions. Dieting That Doesn't Work Eating healthy doesn't mean we have to eliminate all the fun. We can be smart, eat well, and enjoy life. Exercise is the key. Yesterday I bought new hockey skates so I can go to Sticktime with my kids. Not only will I get to spend more time with them, I'll be in the best shape ever soon. Then I'll eat a pizza and a beer! We spend so much time worried about dieting and weighing ourselves and our children are watching. A friend and superstar physical trainer, motivator and Jenny Schatzle of Bond Fitness wrote on Instagram this morning: "A lot of our food issues started when we were young in our own homes. We want better for our own children, we would never want them to talk about their bodies the way we do. Or have them struggle obsessing about food, constantly dieting, chasing a body or weight or look that ultimately is never enough yet we still aren’t willing to change the conversation for ourselves. ⠀⠀ We want different for our children yet we still have the scale in the bathroom. We still do the diet telling ourselves this time it’s going to work. We still base our happiness and success on weight loss and body type. ⠀⠀ They are watching just like you were. They see you, they hear they way you talk about your body, your food and they are creating their own self worth based off yours. ⠀⠀ How about this year our number one goal is to change the conversation for ourselves because we can’t change it for them if we don’t change it for us first. #DietsDontWork #ToxicCycle #BreakTheCycle #BeTheExample" Learn more about Bond Fitness (new site coming soon) and Jenny at https://www.jennyschatzle.com/. You can tune it at either school: https://schoolofbookkeeping.com/radio/ https://schooloftaxes.com/radio/

An electrifying debut thriller for fans of Anatomy of a Scandal, Apple Tree Yard and Gone Girl. Alison has it all. A doting husband, adorable daughter, and a career on the rise - she's just been given her first murder case to defend. But all is never as it seems.... Just one more night. Then I'll end it. Alison drinks too much. She's neglecting her family. And she's having an affair with a colleague whose taste for pushing boundaries may be more than she can handle. I did it. I killed him. I should be locked up. Alison's client doesn't deny that she stabbed her husband - she wants to plead guilty. And yet something about her story is deeply amiss. Saving this woman may be the first step to Alison saving herself. I'm watching you. I know what you're doing. But someone knows Alison's secrets. Someone who wants to make her pay for what she's done, and who won't stop until she's lost everything.... A disturbing, toxic and compelling novel that explores the power of fear and desire, jealousy and betrayal, love and hate, Blood Orange introduces a stunning new voice in psychological suspense.

Some stories of joy in our home with practical tips to cultivate a habit of joy in our homes. Support This podcast by purchasing one of our marriage books today: https://shop.marriageaftergod.com READ: [Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God. [Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage. [Aaron] Today we're gonna talk about the strength that joy brings to our home. Welcome to the Marriage After God Podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after. [Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife. [Aaron] I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution. [Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade. [Aaron] So far, we have four young children. [Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media. [Aaron] With a desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day. [Jennifer] We believe the Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life. Love. And power. [Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God. Together. Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together. [Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. Thank you so much for joining us this week on the Marriage After God Podcast. If you've been enjoying this podcast and enjoying the content, would you just scroll to the bottom of the app and leave a star rating review? This just helps other people find the Marriage After God Podcast, and we'd really appreciate that. [Aaron] Also, if you wanna support our podcast, we don't really do ads. We may in the future, but our goal is to not do ads. One of our ways of not using ads to support the podcast is we have written books, and we sell those books. If you're interested in checking out our marriage resources, our prayer books, our devotionals, you can go to shop.marriageaftergod.com, and picking up a book from our store supports us in the production of this podcast. Also, our Marriage After God book, that comes out next year, is available for pre-order, and so if you go to shop.marriageaftergod.com you'll see, in the very top-left corner of the site, a way to pre-order our book. That would just be really awesome. We'd really appreciate that. Let's get into the icebreaker question, which is what is one funny memory from when we were dating? [Jennifer] Hmm. I can't think of a specific one at the moment, but what does come to mind is we spent a lot of time serving in youth ministry. Oh yeah. A lot of time. We were youth leaders. Yeah, and we... [Aaron] At good old Church on the Hill, Norco, California. [Jennifer]We played a lot of games. We laughed a lot. We ate weird things. We'd have contests and challenges, and there were just things that we did for the kids' sake, but we had a lot of fun doing together. That was-- Remember the lock-ins? We would just have overnights. Yup, over-nighters. [Aaron] We would stay up all night, do milk-chugging contests, and... [Jennifer] Gosh, that does not sound fun now. [Aaron] No it doesn't How did we do that? Back then, it was the highlight of our week. I feel like we just came alive in those times. We looked forward to it all year, to do those events. Yeah. Every Wednesday we just came alive during that time, and I fell in love with you, knowing that you had fun participating in that way, being silly... Little junior high kids and high school kids. Yeah, being silly or playing, it wasn't dodge-ball, what was it called? [Aaron] Oh, what... [Jennifer] Murder-ball? [Aaron]Yeah, we called it murder-ball. [Jennifer] We called it murder-ball because it was-- It was just dodge-ball, but we changed the name. ...dodge-ball on steroids, and we had a lot of balls-- There was no line. You just ran around the room, throwing balls at each other. [Jennifer] You guys would throw them so hard. These poor-- I know [Jennifer] ...13-year-old girls would get nailed [Aaron] But they kept playing it. None of them cried. They were crazy. I forgot about that. Murder-ball I loved that. I loved dating you because you were fun, and you're still fun. Yeah. I got a little not fun over the years, but I've learned to change in that area. I'm still learning, but that's kinda what our episode's about, is not just fun, but joy, but how fun cultivates joy and how we can actually cultivate environments of joy in our home. Let's get to the quote from today, and it's from the book For Better or for Kids by Patrick and Ruth Schwenk. Ruth Schwenk's from The Better Mom, and you said you loved this book. Mm-hmm It's about family and the power that God's given us in our homes. [Jennifer] Yeah, and the quote is on page 37, and it says, "While married life with children "can be challenging, we have reason to hope "and to be encouraged. "There is a way forward, a way through, "and a way beyond all of the craziness. "God's Word has not changed. "The promises of his Word still stand. "Is being married with kids messy? "Yes. "Does God have a purpose and plan in the midst of it all? "Of course he does. "And do we enjoy taking part in this crazy, "life-changing, impossible mission of parenting? "Absolutely." That's great 'cause that sums it up pretty good. Parenting's hard. It is crazy. Marriage and parenting is hard. [Jennifer] It is messy. It's all of the above, and yet, God's Word-- But joy. ...still stands. Yeah. And we can enjoy it. And we can enjoy it, which is something that we're learning day-by-day how to do. Mm-hmm We've talked about kids a lot on our show and just the hard things and the fun things, but today we wanna talk about joy, cultivating joy in our home, having fun in our home, and how that joy brings strength to our home and our walk and our mission in life. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think that sometimes we can be so caught up in making sure that everything that we're trying to order or manage is happening, and we become kind of like the officers in the home of making sure everyone's doing what they're supposed to be doing. Even when it comes to our work, we have this rigid schedule of things that we need to get done, and it's kind of on our timeline, and yet we have kids pulling on our elbows, saying, "Dad, come check out this LEGO thing I built," or Olive wanting to dance with you. Where life becomes more mechanical and clunky rather than organic. It's life. It's something that we're experiencing, not controlling. That's kinda what I'm hearing. That's what I'm feeling, is we could get into this mode that life's just one check list after another, one check box after another, the right next step, which is not-- It comes from a good place. [Aaron] Yeah, it's not terrible to think that way at times and to try and walk correctly, 'cause that's the goal, is we're trying to walk well. We're trying to walk as disciples of Christ, living out what the Bible tells us. Then, where's joy? Where's joy fall in all that? Yeah. We actually, I was really encouraged this last week in the woman's Bible study that I got to go to. The whole topic was about soul-filling joy and the things that we can do as moms to fill our hearts up during the week and, like you said, not just have a list that we're checking off, even though that comes from a good place and we want to make sure that we're managing our homes well, but are we doing things that also fill us up and bring a smile to our face? Because that's gonna overflow into our relationship with our kids. It's gonna overflow into our marriages and give that liveliness that God intends for us to have. [Aaron] What you're saying reminds me of the verse in Isaiah 40:31. It says, "But they who wait for the Lord "shall renew their strength. "They shall mount up with wings like eagles. "They shall run and not be weary. "They shall walk and not faint." [Jennifer] Yeah. I've experienced this in my own life, where I do something that brings a lot of joy to my life, and it does renew my strength. There is something physical that happens to you when you experience the joy of the Lord and you experience his strength fill you up and renew you, and I think that's why it's so important to be talking about joy. Have you experienced this? [Aaron] Yeah, 'cause we can get, if we look at our life as just a series of actions taken, a series of checks to be checked off, steps to take, and it's just this mechanical thing that we're moving forward and yeah, maybe we're doing good things, but if we forget why we're doing it and who we're doing it for, it gets very tiresome because essentially, we're doing it in our own strength. We run on fumes. We're told to fill our jars up to overflowing, and we fill that up with the living water, which is Christ, with the Word of God, with prayer, with getting away, quietness. When the Bible talks of prayer, when Jesus says pray, he says go into your closet. He says get away. When I think about getting away, Jesus often got away. It says that he went up by himself into desolate placesand he, early in the morning and late into the evening, so I just-- But he was intentional with his time. Yeah. It wasn't just, "I'm gonna go and be quiet somewhere," which actually, for some people is probably really filling for them, just being quiet somewhere, sitting at a park, people watching or something. Not me. This isn't just about doing something that's fun necessarily. It's a wholistic view of waiting on God because we know that we need him. We need a rest in him, and that gives us strength, and it gives us joy and the power to go on another day, not just go on but to cheerfully and joyfully go on. [Jennifer] I feel like we all need to be reminded that there's gonna, in life, we will all experience hard times. We will all experience those-- [Aaron] Yeah, James makes that very clear Yeah, those times of wrestling, where God's revealed sin in your life that you're repenting of, and you probably feel down for, but you know you're being transformed in-- [Aaron] Or when he's calling out character issues in us, really hard things. Character issues, maybe financial stresses, or maybe the loss of a loved one, there are so many different types of trials that people walk through, and yet I feel like just because we experience hard times doesn't mean we can also experience joy. I think that's the difference between happiness and joy because happiness is a feeling, and it's an emotion that we have the... Capacity to experience. Right, thank you That's a byproduct of joy, I would imagine. Right, joy's deeper. Joy comes from within, but it's also because God is in our hearts, and he's the one that makes it possible to both enjoy, he's the one that makes it possible to experience joy while in the midst of hardship, at the exact same time. Maybe there isn't any hardship in your life right now, and you, like you said earlier, are just kind of going through the motions and being kind of mechanical-- I actually feel like sometimes when we're going through good seasons, or easy seasons I should say, often, we find ourselves being more discontent. It's easier to forget to walk in joy or something. I've experienced that with us. That's interesting. I realize, I'm like, "Well, there's nothing really hard "going on in our life. "Why are we feeling like this right now?" [Jennifer] In today's episode, we really just wanna inspire you guys to consider joy. Maybe it's something that you haven't thought of, or maybe it's something that you've already been thinking of, and we can just come in as part of that support to say, "Yes, this is the right way. "This is what we should be thinking about. "This is what we should be doing" because a marriage after God has joy. [Aaron] When you walk in the Spirit, what's one of the fruits of the Spirit? Joy. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, and so, when we walk in the Spirit, fruit of that will be joy in our life. I was just thinking about the difference between happiness and joy. I feel like happiness is an earthly experience that comes out of the eternal understanding of joy. Joy is an eternal concept. It comes from hope, hopes of things that are things that are unseen. It's something that goes beyond the current experience because you can have joy even in really hard things because it's based on something eternal, where happiness is based on something temporary. That's good. Something that we experience just right now for this moment. Our goal should never be just seeking happiness. That's called hedonism, just looking for happiness. Our goal should be enjoying the fruit of the Spirit, which one of them is joy. [Jennifer] What I was gonna say was that it benefits our children so much. I was just thinking about how you could just, I feel like kids are so expressive. Their little bodies can reveal so much about what they're feeling, that joy is just one of those things that you can see in kids. It's so evident. Yeah, I wonder how many of our listeners grew up in joyless homes, grew up in homes that were full of strife, anxiety, fear, and how much joy would've benefited the home. They're probably thinking right now, "Man, "I wish my family was joyful. "I wish when I grew up I experienced joy." [Jennifer] If that's you listening right now, I just wanna tell you that you don't have to live according to the past and feel like you're stuck. You can change. [Aaron] Today, we talked about this last episode, you can change today [Jennifer] What a benefit it would be, what a testimony it would be to the power of God in your life. [Aaron] In our home, like I said, over the years, I kind of, there was a season of my life that, and it was probably because of sin I was walking. It was probably 'cause of discontentment issues that we had, character flaws, things that God was growing in us, but I feel like I had a hard time having fun. I had a hard time being joyful. I loved God, and there was times I was joyful, but it wasn't a default state for me. I was pretty Scrooge-y. Is that the word? Not just because Christmas is coming, but just I think people called me Scrooge-y just 'cause I was not very joyful. I don't want that for my family. What are some ways that we over the years have been cultivating joy in our home and that our listeners can take home and try? [Jennifer] We should just tag-team this and kind of go down the list of things, but-- This isn't the definitive list. I actually tried coming up with as many as I could, but I'm sure there's other things that we might think of as we talk about these. [Jennifer] Probably. We do have, we're in a season of young kids, and so a lot of what you probably will hear probably sounds, I don't know... Silly? Silly, 'cause it is. They are silly [Jennifer] They are silly, but I think the important thing to note here is that these are just ways that we have tried to be intentional in cultivating a space in our home, in our lifestyle, that cultivates joy. One of those things is fort building. I actually did that this morning with the kids. [Aaron] The kids love it. We have a couch that's perfect for fort building. The pillows are huge. They're sturdy, so they make really good roofs and walls. I only believe in building big forts. I don't know why people build small forts. It's not worth it to me. I came home the other day-- Go big or go home [Aaron] I came home the other day, and the entire living room was a fort. [Jennifer]You have to use every chair, every blanket-- All the chairs ...every pillow... The couches were on their sides, the pillows-- Maximize the-- [Aaron] ...were stacked up high, and you guys were watching a movie inside We were watching a movie inside, yeah. You're like, "We're in our movie theater. "You wanna come in?" I'm like, "Uh, I don't know if I'll fit," but it was pretty huge, so I probably would've. It was pretty amazing. I think I actually storied it on Instagram 'cause it was-- Probably. [Aaron] I was really impressed with that fort building. Thanks. That's one thing that we do. The kids love it, and it's fun because they're still pretty young. They could build one themselves, but they never make them as good as we make them. [Jennifer] A little tip for fort building, if you get a colorful quilt or one of those knitted blankets that are made-- Have holes in them. [Jennifer] Yeah, they're just really fun for the light to come through, and-- [Aaron] It looks like stained glass windows. It does. I always say, "Look at the stained glass windows." [Jennifer] You need to share the one minute of crazy 'cause this is more new. This is a newer thing. But it works. It's our one minute of crazy, and we've been doing it, we don't do it every night, of course, but when I feel like my kids just got extra jitters in them-- Or extra screams. [Aaron] ...what I'll do is I'll say, "Okay guys, I want everyone to," I'll be a little stern about it, "I want everyone to stand right here in a line." They stand there, they're like, "Okay, what's gonna happen?" Then I'll turn the music on our jam box really loud, and I'll say, "All right, I want you guys "to get as crazy as possible for one minute." Then the whole time, I'm telling them to get louder and louder and louder, and they're screaming, and they get actually tired. When they're done, they're like, "Why'd you have us do that?" I'm was like, "Wasn't that fun?" The first time you had them do it, it took them about 15 seconds to, is Dad joking, or-- Yeah, they didn't know. [Jennifer] They're looking at each other, like, "Should we be screaming?" [Aaron] That's probably because of my history of not being very fun. It was awesome. Yeah, but it did take them a few seconds to actually, they're like, 'Wait a minute, are we gonna get in trouble?" [Jennifer] It's a great thing to do, not right before bed, but leading up to bedtime. [Aaron] I liked it right before bed because I feel like they weren't quite ready for bed, and this pushed them over the edge 'cause they were tired, and they also felt like they got all of it out of them. Sometimes it's hard to calm them down afterwards, but that's okay [Jennifer] I wanna share another one. This comes from my childhood. My mom and stepdad would always do this. They still do it. It's so funny. If someone comes home and walks through the door, or even out from the bathroom or bedroom-- Is this where it came from? Yeah. Oh. [Jennifer] Whoever notices it goes, "Quick, pretend you're asleep" Wherever they're sitting. Wherever you're at, just kinda drop your head, close your eyes, and try as hard as you can not to smile. [Aaron] Wyatt is so bad at it. Wyatt's our two-year-old. He just turned two. But he still tries, and it's so cute. He'll be in his little white chair, and I'll walk in, and everyone's got their heads tilted to the side with their eyes shut-- [Jennifer] Sometimes we'll be at the kitchen table, and we'll be eating breakfast when Aaron comes home, and I'm like, "Quick, pretend you're asleep," and everyone just kind of limps their head to the side. But then, I look over, and Wyatt, he has his head back-- He's just looking at you. He has his head back, and his eyes half shut, and he's smiling 'cause he doesn't get it, but he's trying. I'm like, "Are you guys sleeping?" And Wyatt's smiling at me the whole time. [Jennifer] This is one of those things, I love it 'cause it's from my childhood, so I love that my kids have kind of owned it. Olive is usually the first one now to say it. Oh yeah. "Pretend you're sleeping." [Aaron] "Quick, we're sleeping," and then everyone, she'll put her head down even if no one notices. She gets mad if you don't, no she gets mad if you don't do it. [Aaron] She does it so fast, no one notices, and she is the only one pretending to sleep. It's really funny 'cause then, let's say Dad walks through the door, "Oh no, everyone fell asleep," or we get up really fast and go, "Boo!" It's just fun. Yeah, on the same note of the spontaneous sleeping, the narcolepsy game, we'll often do, I'll get home early after the gym or something, and it'll be super quite in the house, and I think everyone's asleep. I'm tippy-toeing, and I get in the bedroom, and every-- There's just a mountain under the bed. Yeah, and every single person in my family is under the covers in my bed. They're all hiding from me and What's funny, even once the blanket goes over our heads-- I almost jumped on Elliot the other day 'cause I didn't know he was in the bed. Even Truett will be laying there, and the moment the blanket goes over his head, he kinda gets all wide-eyed and smiley-- Like, "What's happening?" Yeah, what's happening. Those are just fun ways to bring instantaneous giggles. And they're short things, they're easy things, and it's something that, they become part of our family, these little things. Our kids look forward to it. They're the ones that instigate all of these things now. Another little tip to help cultivate joy in the home is to not worry about messes so much. That doesn't mean that we don't clean up and have organization and self control, which is something Jennifer and I are trying to get better at, being organized and clean in our house, but if we're always trying to be tidy, it really doesn't leave any room for fun. [Jennifer] We're gonna miss those opportunities where, maybe one of the kids is playing with LEGOs and would love some help, or wants to just get creative with you-- [Aaron] Or throwing pillows around the house for a little bit, or having blankets on, like forts. You can't have it both ways. [Jennifer] We built a fort this morning, like I said, and it's middle of the day right now, it's nap time, and-- And it's still messy out there It's all messed up. It's all messed up. It's one of those things where it's like, "Well, maybe they'll build another one later," and that has to be okay. [Aaron] Something I've realized is that if I'm always telling the kids to clean up, they're actually not gonna like doing some of those fun things. Now, there's a time for everything, so let our kids know that there's a time to clean up. After we've had a full amount of fun or something, they understand that, "Okay, now let's straighten up "'cause we're gonna go on to the next thing," but just kind of not having the anxieties and the overwhelmedness of those little messes, that it's gotta be okay. It's just a good little tip to have a little bit more freedom and lightheartedness in the home. [Jennifer] Good word. Another one is dance parties. We like to turn the music up really loud and just go for it. You guys don't know this about me, but-- Our kids are the best dancers I was gonna say I'm actually probably one of the most terrible dancers, but it doesn't hold me back. I just go for it, and somehow, my kids have picked up on this, and they intend to dance crazy, silly, awkward, and that just makes us laugh even more. If you'd like to see Jennifer dance, leave us a review and tell us that you'd like to see her dance, and I'll post a video of her on our Instagram. Oh my goodness, don't even. Yeah, I'm gonna put some music to it, and you're gonna be dancing 'cause they gotta see. They gotta see the gloriousness that is your dance skills. [Jennifer] Oh, man. I gotta think about that. A lot of these other ones are very physical things, like tickling, spontaneous wrestling matches with Dad. [Aaron] Usually spurred on by my son, who hides, crouching, ready to attack, and the moment I come home, he just jumps out of nowhere onto me with a sword in his hand, but letting those things happen, I think it does huge things for our children, to know that they have the freedom to, of course, not hurt us, which happens sometimes, but just, that they have the freedom to jump on us and to climb on us and to crawl on us. This morning, Olive was, I was talking to you, and she was grabbing my legs and going in and out of my legs, and I didn't notice she was doing it for a while. Like a cat [Aaron] Then I finally was like, "Olive, what are you doing?" 'Cause I felt like I was falling over, and she's like, "I'm just playing with your legs," and she's going in and out and sitting on them and pushing me over, and I for a moment wanted to be bothered by it. Then I thought to myself, "Why do I care "that she's doing that to me right now? "It's really cute." It's something that I still have to consistently work on and recognize in me 'cause I wanna sometimes get bothered by those kinds of things, but letting it happen because I want my kids to know that they can touch me. They can crawl on me. They can hang on me. They can love me. I was actually just really inspired by someone I follow on Instagram. Her name is Joy, and she posted a picture of her two oldest kids. They're in their teens, and her little story caption was just to encourage other moms with little ones to listen to your kids when they come to tell you about what they created with LEGOs or what they're drawing or imaginary world or whatever it is-- Taking joy in their creations, their things. She said because it goes by so fast, and we know we all hear this, but she goes, "You're gonna want to hear from them "and their hard things that they're walking through "when they're older, and if you keep pushing them away "or keep saying, 'No, I don't have time for that' now, "you're gonna miss that opportunity." You wouldn't have built that trust and open lines of communication, even at a very, very young age. Hopefully that encourages someone else. [Aaron] It encourages me, that I need to be listening more and paying attention to my kids more. Again, there's always a balance. Our kids can't absorb every-- Everything. [Aaron] ...everything from us. When we are intentional with it, it'll make the times that we can't okay 'cause they'll know that our hearts are with them. [Jennifer] Right. I'd really love to talk a little bit about just experiencing joy in marriage between a husband and a wife, but before we get there, there's one more thing that, when I was thinking about this list, that really stood out to me, and it's ways that we can kind of team up together to bring joy to our kids 'cause all the things that we've kinda listed we could do without the other. Right. But this next one's pretty interesting. This is your idea, or mine, I can't remember, but we were standing in the kitchen talking, and the kids were in the school room, and I told you, I said, "Aaron, call them out." I had handfuls of marshmallows in my hand, and I-- We both did, yeah. I was one one side-- I gave you the bag, ...of the hallway-- and you took the bag from me, took a handful out, and we hid on either side of the walls, so that when we came through the hallway, we were gonna just launch all these marshmallows at them. I was like, "Elliot, "Olive, Wyatt, come here." Plus, it's also a good lesson in obedience, are they coming the first time they're being called? You're killing two birds with one stone. [Aaron] Then they pitter-patter down the hallway, and we're hiding on the floor so they don't see us, and they walk right past us. Then we just bombard them with marshmallows. It actually scared them, and they looked at us like-- They just stood there. They looked at us like, "How could you do that?" [Jennifer] They just stood there, and Olive had this furrowed brow, and she was ready to just reprimand us, and then-- Then they looked on the ground, they're like, "Are those marshmallows?" "Can we have those?" "Can we have those?" Then they just start squirming. [Aaron] Luckily, marshmallows don't hurt. If you're gonna do that game, throw things that don't hurt at your kids. Otherwise, that would not be very fun. [Jennifer] We have other friends that intentionally do Nerf wars together. Oh yeah. We actually thought about one time buying a bunch of a Nerf stuff, and then-- Getting that family that does that Yeah, not letting them know, and then when we go over for dinner, just attack them We should still do that. We should still do, well, they might listen to this episode now. Now, I have to do it before we launch this episode. [Jennifer] That's just one way that you can team up together to cultivate joy in the home. We wanna hear your guys' ideas too, so please share them. [Aaron] Yeah, and all of these things that you can do, like little things just compounding on top of each other, it shows your family, especially for the husbands out there who might struggle the way I do to be joyful or have this fun-loving spirit or a lighthearted spirit, it shows your children, it shows your wife that you enjoy them, that you like being around them, that they're not just in the way of you, that you enjoy having crazy time with them, having fun time with them. [Jennifer] Yeah, that you wanna hear them laugh, that you wanna participate in their life. We touched on how to cultivate joy in the family, especially with small kids, but Aaron, how would you say we cultivate joy within the marriage and why that's important? [Aaron] Again, walking with the right perspective, first of all, that we have a mission in this world, that God loves us, that we're saved, these big things that God's done for us, easily just allows us to have joy even in the midst of hard things, even when maybe you're not joyful, I can still walk in that stuff, so when we're walking in that together, that knowledge and that truth, there's naturally a joy that exists. On the practical side, I think there's probably a ton of things that we do that cultivate joy, probably things that we could add to our lives. One of them is we have our own set of inside jokes that no one knows about. When you're with-- I'm not gonna describe what they are because they're ours but we have our own little inside jokes, and that's something that we do together, and it's funny for us. It's fun for us. Those build over time, so if you're only one or two years married, just know that those come over time. Maybe you already have some, but those are a really fun way to just, when you're out and about or at church, or-- At any time, really At any time, you can make these jokes, and only they get it. It's pretty fun. Yeah, it's something unique to us. Yeah, something you said about having joy, one of the importance of that is even amidst walking through hard stuff, and I feel like when I look at our marriage, experiencing joy with you was possible even in those first few years, which were our hardest years of marriage, and that was one of the things that carried us through those hard years, was finding ways to cultivate joy in our relationship, exploring new places together, trying to get each other to laugh. [Aaron] Yeah, I realize when we weren't lovers, in those early years, we were friends still, not all the time, but we had a friendship. We had things that we can connect with still and cultivate. God wanted more from us, but in those times, I remember when we were in Malawi, Africa, and it's been hard, and we walked off and we sat on a pier over the lake. Remember that? Mm-hmm, there's a gazebo at the end. [Aaron] Yeah, and we were just sitting there, talking, looking at the fish, talking about being married, talking about if we'd ever come back. [Jennifer] Yeah, we talked about our future. [Aaron] Yeah we talked about our future. Those little things on our list up there, we didn't talk about it, but adventures, that's another way we cultivate joy in our family and in our marriage, is we take adventures, even when we're not with the kids. Me and you like to just go for a drive around neighborhoods we've never been in before, going up the mountain just to drive up the mountain. There's things that we do that give us opportunities to just talk. I think those are situations that cultivate joy in us because it's just us together. It's just us spending time with each other, talking, hearing each other. [Jennifer] Yeah, I think another practical way to do this is, again, physical touch, just like when we were talking about with the kids, but tickling each other, hugging each other. Massages. Massages. Dancing. That's joyful for me. [Jennifer] I'm giving Aaron the eyes 'cause that sounded creepy, but just being physical, being willing to tickle each other and-- And play with each other, yeah. And play, yeah. I like the-- We're a lot more playful with each other these days than we used to be. [Jennifer] Yeah, I like the keep away game, where you snag something, like their phone works really well for this, and then you have to try and get it. Yeah, if you wanna know how addicted someone is to their phone, just snag it out of their hands and see how they respond. Wait, that's joyful? I just think about the lightness. We've had seasons where it just feels like we're walking on eggshells with each other, and that's not fun, where you're tippy-toeing around your spouse, and you're just wondering if the next thing you do is gonna trigger them. That's the opposite of joy. Yeah. [Aaron] That is not joyful. That is tedious and cumbersome. If your spouse can feel light around you and free around you. And feel loved. [Aaron] And cherished around you and loved around you, how much strength there is in that, and power there is in that, and that's what I want because again, we're always talking about being a marriage after God. There's a reason we're together. It's for the ministry God has for us, and if you're constantly feeling like you have to be so aware of every move you make around me because you're just wondering if you're gonna trigger me, there's no way you can minister for Christ in that kind of situation. There's no way we as a family can show the world the love we have for each other, which is what we're called to do, right? Mm-hmm [Aaron] Now, that's not just talking about in marriage. That's talking about in the church as a whole, but joy remedies that. It cultivates an environment that allows for true and powerful and authoritative ministry to happen. [Jennifer] Joy is one of those testimonies of the power of God in your life, and I know I said that earlier, but it's so true, that when the world looks at you, when the world looks at a marriage after God and they see joy, they're probably thinking, "Well, I want "what they have." Yeah, "How do I get "some of that?" [Jennifer] "What is that?" Then you get to tell them, "It's because of Jesus in my life. "It's because God has transformed us. "It's because God gives us hope." [Aaron] Yup. I hope those listening get encouraged by this, that, of course, we're still learning, but if they put their hearts in the right place, they put it in the hands of Christ and allow him to transform them and say, "Lord, I want more joy. "I want more of your joy, "and I want my family to experience joy," it all goes back to walking in the Spirit and saying, "Lord, help me walk in the Spirit today. "I want my kids to feel the overflow of joy in my life. "I want my wife, I want my husband, "to feel that, to experience that joy, "to eat the good fruit coming out of me, "and then in our marriage, I want people, our children, "outsiders to eat the good fruit of our marriage," and at the end of the day, that joy becomes our strength. I just wanna read that scripture in Nehemiah chapter 8. Nehemiah had just finished building the wall, the walls around the city, and Ezra the priest got up on a platform, and he read the entire book of the law out loud, from day till night, to all of the congregation of the people. Nehemiah says this to the people after all of this, it says, "Then he said to them," in chapter 8, verse 10: "'Go your way. "'Eat the fat and drink the sweet wine "'and send portions to anyone who has nothing ready, "'for this day is holy to our Lord. "'And do not be grieved, for the joy "'of the Lord is your strength.'" This people, they were scattered, they were dispersed, the city was destroyed. Nehemiah came, rebuilt the city and was about to, and he had all the people coming back to the city to rebuild their own homes, to rebuild this city with a people that God promised it would be their city, it would be their home, and he just reminds them, he says, "The joy of the Lord is your strength." The strength in our home, the strength in our lives is the Lord. The strength in our marriage. The strength in our marriage, the strength in our ministry, and that strength comes from the joy that God gives us, from the hope we have in Christ, from the power and the authority of the Word of God, and that joy is the thing that just allows us to keep going, keeping walking. Instead of it being mechanical, instead of it being a checklist, it's now a life-giving thing we do. I think that's awesome. Yeah, I love that. My grandma Betty, she is 91 and just right there at the end of her life, and my dad posted a quote, something that she always said, which was, "Make someone laugh every day, "and life will be full." When I think about her life, I think about it being really full. Yeah, every time we're around her, she's big ol' smile, laughing, making jokes. Huge smile. Just for a little description, she's probably only five foot, maybe five-foot-one with heels on, and she wore colorful dresses. She had bright red hair and always wore blue eyeshadow, and when I think of her, I think of fun. I remember being a little girl, maybe four years old, I would go over to her house when my dad brought us over there to visit, and about 10 minutes before we would leave, she would say, "Jenn, come with me." She'd take me to her vanity and put perfume on me and eyeshadow and blush and did the whole thing-- Make you feel so pretty. ...make me feel like a princess, and the whole time just talking to me, and encouraging me, and loving on me, and I can't imagine what I looked like to everyone walking out as a little four-year-old with this makeup on, if she even really put make up on me. Remember, she liked to have fun I know. When I think about that little girl, when I think about myself, if I stood in front of her today, I would think there was no question about the joy that I had in my heart from just that experience with her, those five minutes, or 10 minutes, or however long it was, of sitting in her chair and listening to her voice and being there with me. I just love that, and I want, at the end of my life, to look back and think, "That was a full life." [Aaron] Yeah, and I want people to look back on my life, or our life, and say, "Wow, they were joyful," right? Mm-hmm [Aaron] I don't want them to think, "Man, they were bitter and frustrated all the time "and annoyed." I want them to say, "They were joyful." Joy's a powerful thing. What's funny is all of the fruit of the Spirit is powerful. It's why-- We need it [Aaron] We need the Spirit, is because it produces such good things in us. I just pray that this encourages the listeners today that they would pursue joy, that they would walk in the Spirit, and that they would cultivate an environment in their home that their kids just know what joy is. It doesn't mean we're not gonna have hard times, but it does mean that we can have pure, eternal joy, something that's founded in something in eternity, not in something that is temporary. [Jennifer] I love that. Speaking of prayer, I think that now is a perfect time to go into our prayer for today's episode. We'd love to invite you guys to pray along with us. [Aaron] Dear Lord, thank you for the gift of joy. We pray that we would be intentional to cultivate joy in our marriages and in our families. Holy Spirit, please inspire us with creative ways to create space in our lives to laugh, to play, to enjoy precious moments with those we love most. Remind use every day of the power of joy and how we can be vessels of your joy, so that it is dispersed throughout the world. May our joy be a testimony to others of your goodness and your strength in our lives. May it be the reason people ask us why we are so different from the rest of the world. May our joy draw our spouse, our children, and others close to you as we experience the gift of joy. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. [Aaron] We just thank you for joining us this week. We pray that you have joy this week. We pray that you would walk in the Spirit, and we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? Find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

I will not focus on the "firsts" as this is the first Christmas without my mother. There are a lot of people who make a big deal of telling me this. Instead I will focus on the way that she lived. I will pay special attention on making sure to carry on the traditions that we have during the Christmas holiday: exchanging gifts with family, calling those that are not close, and simply enjoying the day as best as I can. The thing that I'll miss most is not hearing her voice, especially her voice. I've always at least been able to talk to her even if I couldn't see her. Until this year. I'll use every coping mechanism in the book to deal with that... until they don't work. Then I'll simply have to go through it. The lesson here is that it'll be tough, but I can do it. Subscribe to this podcast by using one of the following: Click here to subscribe via Apple Podcasts Click here to subscribe on Android Click here to subscribe via RSS Click here to subscribe on Spotify Contact me using any of following: email - darwyn@dealingwithmygrief.com twitter - http://www.twitter.com/dealwithgrief web - http://www.dealingwithmygrief.com voice message - http://www.dealingwithmygrief.com/voicemail Facebook - https://facebook.com/groups/dealingwithmygrief Instagram - https://instagram.com/dealingwithmygrief   Music provided by Oren Levine (oren@ohljazz.com)