Podcast appearances and mentions of arnold schwartzenegger

In this episode, host Diana updates listeners on her trauma therapy before welcoming returning guest Mark Sowersby along with his wife, Jennifer. The couple discusses their new book, 'Letters to the Weary,' a 21-day devotional aimed at helping readers find rest and support through God's word. They share their personal journey of marriage and healing, offering insights for dealing with trauma within faith. Additionally, Mark talks about their award-winning short film based on his life and his involvement with the TCT Network's show 'Ask the Pastor.' The episode concludes with a heartfelt prayer for listeners.   00:00 Introduction and Host's Update 02:23 Introducing Today's Guest: Mark Sowersby 03:46 Mark and Jennifer's New Book: Letters to the Weary 05:22 Mark and Jennifer's Personal Stories 11:29 Navigating Marriage and Healing Together 16:50 Writing and Publishing Letters to the Weary 19:07 Interactive Devotional Experience 20:07 Connecting with God Through Devotion 21:14 Personal Reflections and Genuine Writing 24:18 Film Project: Forgiving The Nightmare 26:01 Future Plans and Community Engagement 30:41 Final Thoughts and Prayer   https://www.amazon.com/Letters-Weary-Mark-Sowersby/dp/1951475399 Bio: Mark and Jennifer have been married for over 20 years and have four beautiful children. Mark is a Lead Pastor and graduate of Northpoint Bible College. He is the author of Forgiving the Nightmare and has shared his testimony across the country in churches, seminars, and a variety of media platforms, including The 700 Club, Fox Digital, TCT Ask The Pastor, CTN, God TV, Cornerstone Network, and over 350 podcasts across the globe. https://forgivingthenightmare.com/   Website: https://dswministries.org Email: diana@dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ Transcript: Mark and Jennifer Sowersby [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hey everyone. Welcome to the podcast. So excited that you're here with me today. We have a great show for you today. I hope you're doing well. A little update on my trauma therapy that I mentioned to you. I don't remember which episode that was, but I'm on like session five. And things are going well. We are still in the [00:01:00] process of me telling my story. we haven't done a whole lot of unpacking. Mostly touching base with me as to how am I feeling, while I'm sharing with her all these things that I went through. Now I'm being more detailed telling her my life story then when I was telling my story on the podcast, and even when I tell my story in my Mending the Soul groups. There's a reason of course for that so she has a complete picture and able to pick the correct treatment plan to help me. So, uh, today I got a bill from my insurance company, for a hundred dollars. And up to this point, my invoices have been zero, which I'm assuming mental health with my insurance has been covered a hundred percent. So I was kinda like, what's going on? I sure hope that I don't owe a hundred bucks every time I go see her, because I would not be able to afford that. [00:02:00] So I will be investigating about why I got an invoice, but again, don't be afraid to reach out to a trauma therapist, somebody that is licensed where you live, the state you live in, the country you live in. If you need help, send me a message. I'll do my best to help you find something in your area. So, Now onto our podcast and our guest today. I'm really excited because I have a returning guest today, a friend of the podcast, Mark S owersby. He's been on the show twice so far. And I really want you to go back and listen to his previous episodes because he is probably in my top five guests that I've had on the show in the last five years, the life of my podcast. That's why he's back on because he is excellent and, Mark is bringing his wife, [00:03:00] Jennifer, today, which will be fun. Mark was on the show on season one and that was episode 11. So he tells his story, I guess as much as you can tell your story on a podcast in an hour. and he's had this book, Forgiving The Nightmare is excellent. That is about his story. He's been on a lot of very prominent podcasts and he even has a movie about his life that he has film this past year. The second time, he was part of our Bible series. How can I trust the Bible when I've been abused? So please go back and listen to those. They are excellent. You'll be blessed. He is on the show again because him and his wife have written another book just as recently called Letters to the Weary. Of course I am wanting to know all [00:04:00] about it. But let me read you a little bit of the synopsis on the back of this book. Life is filled with moments of confusion, doubt, and uncertainty. These struggles combined with everyday life can feel impossible to overcome. Do you find yourself feeling weak and tired at the end of each day instead of fulfilled? Do you complain more than express gratitude? Have you lost hope that things can actually change? Letters to the weary is a devotional that will inspire and encourage you to find a place of rest, support and understanding. Understanding your situation is not enough. We want to show you a way out. Letters to the weary is filled with testimonies, scripture, and encouragement bringing the reader to a [00:05:00] place of peace. It has been said that habits can be broken in 21 days. That may or may not be true, but we do believe if you wholeheartedly commit to prayer and pursuing God for 21 days, our life will be forever changed. That sounds pretty good, doesn't it? I'm always looking for really good devotional. So Mark, individual bio is Mark Sowersby is a speaker, writer, pastor. In 2019, pastor Mark went through a time of great healing. He began speaking about the nightmare of abuse and years of suffering he experienced in his childhood, and how condemnation, shame, and guilt were replaced with forgiveness, joy, and life in abundance. He now speaks about his story and testimony of healing, forgiveness, and freedom. Through his ministry Forgiving the Nightmare. So on his website, he is got a lot [00:06:00] of videos, his video testimonies on there. I'll let you watch that. But you really are in for a treat. You're gonna love Mark. I hope that you enjoy my conversation with Mark and Jennifer S Alright, we have back to the show today, Mark Sowersby, and for the first time we have his lovely wife, Jennifer, on the show. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. It's to be so much good to be with you. Yeah, this is number three. I mean, you're just like a friend of the podcast, a regular here on the show, Mark. Well, it's always a blessing to be with you and be able to share. The testimonies and stories and the victories of the Lord with you and your audience. So thank you so much for having me on, and I'm really excited that my wife could join me. Uh, I'm really great. That's really a blessing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, this is gonna be fun. [00:07:00] And of course we all know about Forgiving the Nightmare and your story. Mark, we heard your story and then you were back. That was episode 11 was your story. That was season one. Wow. Thank you for being on my first season when I was starting out. I'm on year number five now, and then you run episode 100, you did our Bible series. How can I trust the Bible? Yes. Amen. I remember that. Yep. That was a great series. So you're back on the show to talk about your new book, Letters to the Weary. That sounds awesome. There it is. Yeah. There's a picture. There you go. There you go. Gotta get the angle right. Letters to the, we, our new book, A 21 day devotional. It's, we're really excited about it. I wrote it with my wife Jennifer, and, we're really blessed to be able to have this, just published and released. Oh, just a few, about a month ago. [00:08:00] It's brand new right out there. It's. It's a little different from the first book I wrote, and that was testimonial with some scripture references and kind of a how to and a hold on to God. And this is just, I got to put my pastor hat on and kind of share a little bit. So Jen and I were really excited to be able to write this devotional together. What do you think, Hon? Yes, it was a good time to be able to do it together and to collaborate and I'm honored to write something like this with my husband. So, Jennifer, tell us about your story, your background. 'cause we haven't met you on the podcast before. Well, I came to know the Lord when I was five years old. My kindergarten teacher led me to the Lord and I've been following Jesus ever since. And he's kept me from things. I don't have the testimony where I did things and then I , you know, recovered from them. I have the testimony that God kept me from ever doing them. Absolutely. [00:09:00] Some people feel bad that they don't have this, well, I did drugs or I was a rebel or something. I really appreciate the stories that, I lived a faithful Christian walk my whole life. That means that it is possible. It is, it is, it is possible. Like that God can use you and, you can live a holy life. Now how did you and Mark meet? I was the three to five year olds coordinator at church. And he was the children's pastor when I was old enough to meet. We've known each other for a long time, but he is seven years older than I am. So when he realized who I was, I was an adult by that point, and he was like, oh. We were friends. And then when I was in my twenties, I went off to finish college and he realized he missed me. And he was praying about [00:10:00] who the Lord would lead to him to marry. And he's like, God, I need this type of person. I need that type of person. And he said he felt like the Lord was saying, Hey, McFly, there's a girl down in Florida. She'd be the right one. Right. I knew Jen so long that, you know, I, I knew her parents and when I first got saved her, uh, mom and dad were involved as youth group leaders and like anything else, you go over people's houses for cookouts and pizza parties. And, and Jen was there, but she was always the kid, you know, she was just the kid of the youth leaders, youth directors, youth helpers, and never really on the radar. And when I finished Bible college, I came back and Jen was our three to 5-year-old director, but she was as, as I say, she was all grown up. You know, she was all grown up and, but really she wasn't like, I never saw her that way until one day in the prayer, prayer closet, the Lord said, Hey, McFly, uh, you know, she's right in front of you, you know? So, uh, we. We started a relationship, and I remember when I went to the lead pastor of the church, I, when [00:11:00] Jen and I were getting serious and we started to date, I, I went into the senior pastor's office just to kind of let him know. And I, and I said to him, Hey Pastor, I want you to know Jen and I are gonna date. And he started to laugh and he said, you are the last two to know this. Everybody has known this. The whole church knew that you two were gonna date, you're the last two. So, uh, we started to date and then. The rest, as they say, is history with four kids. And we're getting ready to celebrate 22 years of marriage. Wow. Amen. I love that story. And, I know your story really well, Mark, and the suffering and the abuse that you went through. I know Jennifer had to be, a huge, huge support through all of the recovery and raising a family. So tell us, Jennifer, what was it like, supporting him in that way with his past and such? I think we just, we just live life and I'm naturally, I think I'm a nurturer, so I think I, helped in that way. But, God had [00:12:00] already done a huge amount of healing before we were together because he's seven years older than me. When we got together, I was 25, so he was, almost 33 by the time we got married. So God had already done a lot in his life. Even when you're healed of things, there's still scars. Like after you've had surgery. Like I had carpal tunnel surgery, many years ago. And even though the site healed for over a year, I couldn't put weight on that wrist without pain because the scar tissue was there. And I think the same thing happens when you're healed. Emotionally or from other things, you know, traumas that have happened to you, you still have scars. That doesn't mean you're not healed. It just means that there's scar tissue there and. So we had to walk through that. Amen. Amen. I think that's a good way to put it. Yeah. You know what, you don't know what you don't know, you know? So, of course a lot of my [00:13:00] trauma and hurts, pains, wounds, I brought to the altar. I dealt with my counselor coaches, pastors and friends, but that I've never married, I never had that closeness of a wife, the intimacy of a marriage. You know that connection that you have. So I didn't know what I was gonna carry in there because I didn't know what marriage was like, and I didn't know how to, prepare myself or warn her or say here. I, we just kind of grew into this marriage together. We both brought our baggage in. My baggage was obviously loud and big, but we both carried our pain as people do. And what we learned is we had to go to the altar of God. Uh, we had to go and lay our, our marriage down, our hopes down our family down. We laid all those moments, and it didn't mean that it was always easy. There were moments of tears and prayers and challenges and trials and blessings, but as we learned to trust the Lord, you'll hear me say all and each other and each other because we had to communicate. I mean, there were, we had to have some frank conversations about things and [00:14:00] mm-hmm. You know, where we, where I expressed where I was hurt in our relationship in the beginning and, and then that left its own scars. Not that I was hurt because he did something wrong, just the pain of going through feeling like I had done something wrong because I happened to touch one of his scars, you know, where it brought pain to him. So he handled it the way he did and then I handled it the way I did. 'cause again, neither one of us had been married before. Neither one of us had, dealt with things together. So we've had to deal with things, by communicating and working through things and god has the victory. Amen. Amen. And that's true. You know, like I, I'll have to say, if you come to our church, I'll pray for couples at our altar. I'll say, Lord, help us grow closer to you so we can grow closer to each other. And I would say those early [00:15:00] years of marriage, as many early years of marriage as you're trying to figure it out. Uh, you could have, uh, perfect backgrounds or you could have broken backgrounds, but you're trying to figure it out. Uh, time, money, communication, family, uh, re intimacy, intimacy, responsibility, all those things that, uh, you're trying to figure out. And, and just like anybody else, we had our ups and downs, but we had the altar to hold onto. We had the word of God to guide us and we had friends that would hug us and love us through it. But 22 years we've done pretty good. When there were times where it was difficult, that's when you run to God, because he's the one who fixes everything. He's the ultimate healer. So when I didn't understand what was going on or when we were having, um, troubles and learning to communicate and learning to walk, navigate through these things, that's when I would spend time with God and I would just cry out to him. Amen. And that's why I'm [00:16:00] so glad now that we've been able to. You'll come together and, and work together and parent together and have a home together and a ministry together. And it's blessing that my wife has beside me. So that's what's really excited that we published this book together. These 21 Devotions. Uh, we both poured ourselves into 'em. Jen wrote some independently. I wrote some independently. Most of them we collaborated on. She knew a better word than I knew. I thought it about this way, she thought it about that way. And it was just a wonderful collaboration of a a 21 day devotional to pour everything that we're talking about you into these pages, to talk about communication and, and trust and ups and downs and lefts and rights, and, and how all God gets the glory. And that's what we wanted to give in this, uh, new, our new book called Letters to the Weary. So I see that it's on Amazon. Did you self-publish this or do you have the same publishers Forgiving Nightmare? We publish. Yeah. Yep. We work with the same [00:17:00] publisher. He is, uh, our publisher's been a blessing to us. He is really helped us hold, holds our hand. He is been my friend. He has been my writing coach. He is just kind of been everything to help me write these books , and him and his, team has been behind me a hundred percent. They were amazing. So you have testimony, scripture, encouragement. Can you give us an example of one of them? Well, I'll tell you what I have, which, like the format. So, so we wanted to write it like a letter and Yes, what happened is I wanted somebody able to go in and read it and have enough of the day, you know, and somebody said, why 21 days? Why not 30 days? Why not 90 days? Why not 365 days? And I can just tell you Jen and I, the church we grew up in, it was very common for in January, people would do a 21 Day Daniel Fast. It was kind of a tradition. It was just something that our church we grew up in, they would celebrate, the New Year by con doing a Daniel Fast. There's a book called The Daniel [00:18:00] Fast has to do with dieting and things like that. So whenever I thought about fasting or devotion, I always thought 21 days. It is one of those things that got caught in my head. So, because that was in my spirit, in my head, we wrote this 21 day devotion, but we wanted 'em to be independently. We wanted 'em to standalone. Like, uh, the reader is reading a letter in my first book, forgive the Nightmare. We talked about the trauma. We talked about the hard times. We talked about the big picture, the, but I wanted to say, okay, you've laid your trauma at the altar, you've given it to Jesus. Now what. Now how do I wake up Monday and Tuesday, and now what do I do? And we hope to put in the pages. Of letters to the weary. The next part, what do I do Now? I've given the big part to Jesus. I've walked in victory. I've claimed it. I've confessed it. I believe it. I stand on the word, but now I gotta get up Monday and go to work. So we hope this, uh, this devotion in which again is filled with scriptures and testimonies and as you heard, real, real trials and ups and downs and victories that have poured [00:19:00] out of the. The valley and out of the grace of God, we've tried to pour into this book and let God, uh, be blessed and honored by it. I hope that when you read it, it feels like you're sitting down reading a letter from a friend and, and that's pointing to Christ and that's why we put the entire scripture in. We don't just put the references is what we write, we fill out the entire scripture and that way ultimately you're pointed to the Bible, which. God's word and it is amazing. If you're not reading the Bible, you should be. A spot, they're asked questions or reflections. Mm-hmm. And we, we put something in our devotion called the big question. So every, after every one of them, after every 21 of these devotions we have the big question. We left space in the book to journal, to write, to put your thoughts down. So again, we wanted to be interactive. We just didn't want it to stand on the shelf. We [00:20:00] picture people a big old cup of coffee, the word of God, and our devotion, and they go in their prayer closet and, and serve the Lord that way. Yeah, I think that it's a, a smaller book, then you can actually finish it and, get the process starting of connecting with God. Maybe you don't know where to start with reading the Bible or prayer. You're a new Christian, or you've been away from the Lord because of, of course, trauma and abuse. You know, we're on the couch with God. We, don't understand why he allowed this to happen. This looks like it'd be a great transition into connecting with the Lord, just a short 21 days. With some of my background, not only the trauma of abuse, but the trauma of academia being a dyslexic, you know? Yeah. In both of my books, I thought, well, what would I wanna read? I wouldn't wanna read this. 607. Now my wife may wanna read the big books, but I read something you could [00:21:00] read in a plane. I think I would've been too intimidated if somebody handed me this. For me, I wanted to be able to read it, digested it, and then move forward. So I tell people my books aren't huge. They're not big books, but they're full reads. Right. Uh, so that's how I always identify 'em. We really hope that it pierces the heart. We hope the scriptures fill the soul and confession of praise comes out of one's mouth. And they're written to be something you can do even when life is crazy busy. Yeah. So I, I'm a mom, the other thing, and so we wrote it in between life, so. We wrote it, you know, I would work on it when I was dropping the kids off at school. I'd be sitting in the car and, on the computer or, in between making dinner. And so it was written with life going on around us. And so I hope that, he ministers to each person who reads it. Both of my books. I've always wanted to be really genuine. I. Really genuine [00:22:00] to the reader. And we tried to be genuine in this book. We tried to be as genuine and forgiven the nightmare just to say, look, we're real people. We love an awesome God. We got ups and downs, lefts and rights. We got bills we're trying to pay. Uh, we got cars that are trying to fix. Life isn't always beautiful and there's hard days and tough days, but God is always good. And we wanted to share that in. In our books, and we wanna share that in this devotional letters to the weary. Again, hopes it challenges you, makes you think, it makes you praise. We wrote it not only for the individual, but we think it would work good in a group too. Yeah, A bible study, a a men's group, a women's group, a grieving group, uh, a counseling group, a so we figure it has, it covers a wide variety of topics. Anywhere from hearing God's voice to knowing you're loved, when you're having sleepless moments, when you're feeling like you just wanna blend in and hide just all different, topics. When you're not sure you wanna follow God, there's even a topic [00:23:00] on that. Yeah. When you're not sure where you wanna go. But God is faithful and he loves us and he is there for us. He's there. 24 7, 365. It says in the Psalms, where can I go from your presence? If I made my bed, in the depths, who are there if I, up to the heavens are there. So no matter where you go, God is there. Yes. Like I love that scripture. We, we've been in the pits before, haven't we? Yep. Yeah, we have. We have. Yeah. But once you get out of the pit, it's an amazing view when you're out of it. Yeah. It is amazing when you get out. But it's nice to look back and see. When I was in the pit, God was still there with me, even though I couldn't sense him there. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Even though I walked through the valley, I shadow death. I shall fear no evil. Yes. Yeah. Amen to that. Now Amazon, is that the main place that we can find the book or is there other spots? Well, that's probably the easiest and [00:24:00] biggest place to find the book on Amazon, but it is on Barnes and you can go barn, Walmart. You can go to any search engine where they sell books. You go to our website and you can, connect there with the books. But really, if you want worldwide distribution and you want everybody to find it, Amazon is king in that world. I hear you're this big movie star now. You have a short film about your life, Mark. Let's hear about that. Yeah, well, thanks. It's a great project. I don't know if I'm a big movie star, I might be big, but I'm not a movie star. So, what happened was a few years ago I connected with a great young director and he and I got ahold of my book and, we started to discuss what to do. Well, it's a full book and in that there's so many twists and turns, ups and downs. It's about a life. It's about victory, it's about challenges. So we kind of had to take a snapshot of one scene of the whole book. And, uh, we made a 20 minute movie and. We had a set and he had a cast and [00:25:00] we had the lights and we had the DP director of, we had it all. We had editors and, and, this young director, he was just ready to go. Tru Vine, studios, Tru Vine Pictures, a great young guy named Henry Kay. And he has just been my partner and my blessing. So, so it took us about a year to make it from the moment we filmed it till I went through editing and sound and all the things that needed to be done. And then we started putting in film festivals. And, before you'd know it, we were nominated for many film festivals, all Christian film festivals, and there's one called The Crown, a Crown Film Festivals, which they tell Crown. Mm-hmm. Crown Sports. And which they tell me is, uh. Kind of one of the most prestigious, or one of the most, recognized one in the Christian circles. And we were nominated for the best short film, at the beginning of this month. And we walked away with a bronze. So they give a bronze of silver and a gold, and. And we won the bronze in the best short film category for the Crown's awards. And so we're [00:26:00] excited about what God's doing with that. We hope to do a feature film, that's our prayer, that Lord, we could do a 90 minute, two hour feature film where we get to tell the whole story. But for Forgiving The Nightmare Short film, we call it Forgiving Nightmare film. You can actually go online. There's a website called Forgiving the Nightmare Film, and you can find a little, blurb or a little preview of the film there. And on your website you can see a clip of the film as well. Yeah, you can see a clip there@forgivingthenightmare.com. But, again, it's 20 minutes long. We don't have the whole thing online yet because we're still in festival season. And so when that's done, we'll be releasing it online, but. Yeah we're excited that we walked away with that bronze award and now people are saying, let your people call my people. We don't know what God's gonna do next, but we believe it's all in God's hands. Well, that sounds really exciting. It probably cost a lot of money to do that. Well, there was a budget for it. You're right. And I have to be honest, when you say make films, I wrote the story. It was about my life. But really my [00:27:00] director and his team put it together. I have to, tip my hat. Yes, it was my story. Yes. He gave me room to collaborate, but it was really his eye and his art that, brought this film together. There was a budget, I think we did ours for about, 14 to $17,000. It was a commitment to doing it, but most films are done for much more than that, so. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we're, we, were blessed to have a good team, a lot of volunteers, but we were given free access to a hospital area. The main scene is being filmed in like a hospital room and it's so hard to find hospital space, because they're always being used and you find when they're very costly to rent for the day. But God just gave us favor with a school and they, allowed us to film at this place. So a lot of stories where God just gave us favor. We're blessed. It's out there. We hope to continue to, move forward to see what God's gonna do with it. Ultimately, our prayer is [00:28:00] to make a feature film. I thought about Matt Damon playing me. What do you think? I was just gonna say if I, you had somebody in mind, who would you want to play you? Well, I think it's, first I thought about Arnold Schwartzenegger. What do you think? Me and Arnold? Matt Dammon, Mark Walberg. Yeah. Mark. Mark. I dunno. But no, I'm just happy to have our story told. Who could play my wife? What supermodel will play her, so? Yes. When it comes out where we can all watch the film, that's gonna be a great day. Has anybody come up to you yet and given you any feedback from the festivals? Yeah, yeah, this really changed my life, or. We've heard how people have been touched by it. We've heard how people have been ministered to it. We've heard how people have said they have felt the Holy Spirit through it and in it. Mm. Uh, we've heard a lot of great comments. Again, we are in this film festival season, but from what I understand [00:29:00] is the plan right now is to release it on probably YouTube or something of that way. Probably, late summer, early fall. When the seasons are over. So we'll kind of release it that way. So keep looking for us and we'll keep, continue to promote it. I'm sure when it's released on YouTube or one of these social networks, we'll be able to promote a lot of it and let people know it's out. We do wanna bring lots of eyeballs to it because we believe the story. The story's not about abuse. The story's about forgiveness. The story's about how to overcome that trauma, and we tried to tell that in Forgiving The Nightmare. And we try to share that in Letters To The Weary. We don't wanna just talk about the pain, we wanna talk the victory, right? We wanna be honest, right Jen? We've always wanted to be honest, but we also wanna say, listen. We got a hold of Jesus. As much as those early years , were trials sometimes and learning to communicate and learning to walk through. I think today we could say, we're about ready to have a 20-year-old, Jennifer. Wow. You are gonna be a mom [00:30:00] of a 20-year-old. Our daughter's Just 17, 12, 15, 17 and 20. They're all teenagers. Woo. We have, two of them driving. So, we talk about the early years where I brought in my mess. She brought in her life and, but there's so many victories today, where God has moved. And, my wife is now teaching a women's group. She's counseling with women. She's writing, these books. So I've just seen God bless my wife and help her grow. And I know that I'm growing and together the Holy Spirit's moving us forward with Forgiving the nightmare film, Forgiving Nightmare Books, and all the different expressions that God lets us do. Yeah. Amen. So you've shared so much today, much about your relationship, your marriage, and the stuff the Lord's blessed you with to minister to others. Anything you want to leave our listeners with, if you both want to, give your last piece of love and [00:31:00] advice to them. Well, Jesus says to come to him, all you who are weary and heavy burdened and he will give you rest and that's why we wrote this book. So you have a chance to pause and take some time and come to the father who loves you. With an everlasting love. Amen. And spend time with him. Amen. Pain, trauma loves to isolate people. Loves to, make us feel we're all alone. We're no good, we're bad. No one will ever understand. And like my wife said, God wants us to come to him and to have that moment of Selah where we just pause and we hope that when you pause, you pause with the word of God. And if either of our writings, our ministry letters to the weary, Forgiving the nightmare can help you in that journey. Let us just come to the Lord no matter who we are. Let's come and let God touch us and heal us, and we love God. And thank you so much for having us on. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yes, this has been great. And [00:32:00] having you, Jennifer. On the third time that Mark's been here. You guys are always welcome to come back. If you do another book, another movie, you can just come on and I'll definitely, look forward to that. You guys are gonna probably do more stuff down the pike for sure. However the Lord leads. We're really blessed. Hey, I just want you to know on Mondays you can find me on the TCT network. I'm on a part of, I'm on a show called Ask the Pastor. So, you may have it in your market. But if not, you can go, always go online, on Facebook, on Instagram, go to TCT and it's a wonderful network. They have a program called Ask the Pastor, and at 2:30, every Monday, I'm a part of a panel. I'm not the host, I'm just one of the voices of the panel. But if anybody wants to catch me, see my ugly mug, uh, you know, just turn to, to ask the pastor on TCT Network. Oh, and we can ask questions? [00:33:00] You can, you can. You can do it in and stump the pastor? I think some people think it's called that, but it's really called Ask the Pastor. Oh, absolutely. I'll put everything in the show notes for you listeners. And I don't remember if I asked you this before, Mark. Can you say a short prayer for our listeners before you go? I would be honored. I'd be honored to. Father. God, we just thank you so much for your goodness and grace. Lord, we thank you that you love us, that you're still the lifter of our head. You're still the lover of our soul Lord, and the empty tube still matters and the cross where you died for our sin still has power. But Father your word still goes forth and it wants to heal, deliver and set free. So I pray for everyone, with a heavy heart today. Lord, I pray the lie of the enemy that isolates and robs from them their dignity, their value. Lord, I just pray that those words fall short and Father, we hear the word of God. It reminds us that we are delivered, made [00:34:00] new and set free. And Father, I thank you for our host today. I pray you bless her. I pray you bless this show. I pray, Lord God, that you go before us and touch us. In Jesus' name. Amen and amen. Thank you guys. Love you guys. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us@dswministries.org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.  

What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to listen to the Nerdmudgeon podcast about Conan the Barbarian! We welcome special guest host John Nocher to the show to talk about the final entry in our "Cheesy 80's Movies" series, the epic classic "Conan the Barbarian" featuring Arnold Schwartzenegger.

Vi snackar: * Morgans mål på Ravelli * Rasmus magi hos frisören * Vad som fick Arnold Schwartzenegger att börja träna * Vad bollkänsla och vänsterhänthet kan betyda i unga år * Impregnering av fängelsevakt * Rusningen på Rusta * Happy Wife - Happy Life

Welcome back to the podcast that is Wii for me and WiiU for you! In this episode, Ava talks about a really funny sponsor she noticed at a local soccer match, a retelling of Phineas Gage (sorry if I've done it before!), her favourite Arnold Schwartzenegger line, her squeamishness limits, her dad's cold hands, and eventually she ends on a rant about the current state of American politics and the depressing trend of anti-intellectualism.

Bodybuilding isn't cheap- food, gear, training, and coaching can make the road to becoming a legend super expensive.  Now that's where the generous benefactors come in handy!Famous bodybuilders like Arnold Schwartzenegger, Sylvester Stallone and Kai Greene made money as muscle for hire and it wasn't always as security detail. Muscle worship and muscle posing can sometimes bring in the bucks if you find the right audience. Let's Grow Big Together! The podcast that invites you to come to the muscle worship party, even if you're not jacked yet.In this series, we take a look at the passion for muscle, adventures in bodybuilding, muscle gods, muscle worship and practical advice to put on the gains. Today long term listener, go-go boy and musical theater enthusiast Shaw Knight takes us behind the scenes of lavish muscle worship parties you've always heard about but seemed too wild to be true.Listen to Feast of Fun without any ads:★ feastoffun.com/plus★ patreon.com/feastoffunFOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM:★ instagram.com/faustofernos★ instagram.com/marcfelion Plus-• How to develop arms like a gymnast.• Why so many Instagram fitness influencers get asked for pictures of their feet.

Bodybuilding isn't cheap- food, gear, training, and coaching can make the road to becoming a legend super expensive.  Now that's where the generous benefactors come in handy!Famous bodybuilders like Arnold Schwartzenegger, Sylvester Stallone and Kai Greene made money as muscle for hire and it wasn't always as security detail. Muscle worship and muscle posing can sometimes bring in the bucks if you find the right audience. Let's Grow Big Together! The podcast that invites you to come to the muscle worship party, even if you're not jacked yet.In this series, we take a look at the passion for muscle, adventures in bodybuilding, muscle gods, muscle worship and practical advice to put on the gains. Today long term listener, go-go boy and musical theater enthusiast Shaw Knight takes us behind the scenes of lavish muscle worship parties you've always heard about but seemed too wild to be true.Listen to Feast of Fun without any ads:★ feastoffun.com/plus★ patreon.com/feastoffunFOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM:★ instagram.com/faustofernos★ instagram.com/marcfelion Plus-• How to develop arms like a gymnast.• Why so many Instagram fitness influencers get asked for pictures of their feet.

Mikey & Jeremy watch Conan The Destroyer. They discuss Dungeons & Dragons, Conan's intelligence stat, and skimpy outfits. 

KC three-peat? NFC Champs '25. Arnold   To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to sales@advertisecast.com or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheJeffWardShow

KC three-peat? NFC Champs '25. Arnold   To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to sales@advertisecast.com or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheJeffWardShow

Is it always harder to teach an old dog new tricks? Why is an older person slower to learn a new language but able to learn new faces easily? Why does Arnold Schwartzenegger have an accent but Mila Kunis doesn't, even though neither spoke English as a child? Why is there a correlation between how tall a person is and how much salary they're likely to earn? What would it mean to say that you are born as many people but die as a single one? This week's episode dives into surprises about brain plasticity and why your flexibility changes throughout your lifetime. 

Il y a une compétence sur laquelle j'ai dû bosser. Une compétence sans laquelle le podcast et les formations ne serait tout simplement plus là depuis longtemps : c'est la résilience. Sans elle, j'aurais beaucoup de mal à me relever après chaque uppercut. Même une petite claque me mets vite au tapis. Alors j'ai travaillé sur ma résilience pour prendre les coups, mais toujours me relever. Dans cet épisode, je vous explique ce qu'est la résilience, pourquoi elle est essentielle en entrepreneuriat mais aussi en marketing. Je vous donne des exemples concrets comme cette expérience dramatique vécue par Arnold Schwartzenegger, ces campagnes de pub ratées pour Pauline Laigneau, ou encore le flop qui m'a coûté 15 000 euros lors du premier lancement de ma formation Stratégie Indépendante. Et pour vous aider, je vous donne 10 clés sur lesquelles vous appuyer pour travailler votre résilience. Autres épisodes qui pourraient vous plaire : Episode du Tim Ferris Show avec Arnold Schwartzeneger Stratégie de lancement avec Pauline Laigneau Comment développer ses soft skills avec Solenne Bocquillon le Goaziou ---------------

Top Stories - Valor Soccer cancels the season because of encampment encroachment, young Europeans are concerned about climate change and over population, Arnold Schwartzenegger's views on immigration.//Guest: Kate Stone on a Ballard encampment clearing.//Red Lobster's promoting "endless shrimp" - and someone actually did the math to see how many shrimp you have to eat to "beat the house."

James Cameron's sci-fi time travel masterpiece is also an iconic monster movie for horror fans. Listen to us discuss the OG Terminator. Synopsis The Terminator is about a machine that terminates. But it's not bugs like you'd think, it's people. But not people now in the future from when the Terminator is from, but from the present in the past. It kills present day people from the past, by traveling from the future present.  Also sent from the now future is Kyle Reece, who needs to save his bosses mom from the Terminator and also generally just be a bummer. Review of The Terminator The Terminator as a film is much like it's titular monster. Slick, focused, and effective. The tone is bleak, and unlike other time travel movies, is stripped of all humor inherent the premise. The script is tight and communicates that the future is a nightmare, and needs to be stopped at all cost.  Arnold Schwartzenegger gets the role that further pushes him into stardom with his iconic lines like “I'll be back”,and “Hey, I'm Terminating here!” James Cameron, in his second feature film, second only to Pirahna 2, creates a fully realized sci-fi masterpiece. The special effects of the Stan Winston Studio and the music of the Brad Fiedel augment what is really just a low budget slasher movie. The Terminator operated off of a budget of only 6.5 mil. Compare that to The Ice Pirates that came out the same year, that had a budget of 9 million, which was also considered low.  Score 10/10

Elle and Chris begin a multi-part series pitting rival films against one another, named after the muscles of the first two combatants: LET'S GET READY TO PEC-OFF! In one corner Mr. Universe, Elle's hopefully-adoptive father, Arnold Schwartzenegger in Conan The Barbarian (1982). In the opposite corner, The Italian Stallion, he is the law, Sylvester Stallone in First Blood (1982). When the smoke clears, who will be crowned the victor? The Deluxe Edition Network Podcast of the Month for August 2023 is Quad Pro Quo. Quad Pro Quo is a weekly film podcast inspired by the Quid Pro Quo scene in Silence of the Lambs. Hosted by two couples who also happen to be friends AND live next door to each other. New episodes drop every Thursday wherever you podcast. Spoil My Movie is a proud member of the Deluxe Edition Network (The DEN). There is a podcast for everyone on The DEN across a wide variety of interests, including sports, entertainment, pop-culture, comedy, conspiracies, advice, news, and more. Check out the website for a full listing of all the great shows the network has to offer. If you enjoy any of the shows on The DEN, please share with a friend. The best way for our shows to grow is by word of mouth. They'll thank you!  Spoil My Movie is sponsored by Sunday Scaries CBD products. Visit www.sundayscaries.com and use our promo code SPOILMYMOVIE for 25% off your order. We have personally used their gummies and tinctures, and can attest to their efficacy in relieving the Sunday Scaries, on whatever day or time they might hit you. Spoil My Movie is sponsored by Sweet ZZZ Mattress. Visit www.sweetzzzmattress.com and use our promo code SPOIL15 for 15% off your order. We've been sleeping on our bamboo sheets and LOVING them. There's a 50-day money-back guarantee, but we guarantee that no one is taking these sheets away from us! Spoil My Movie is sponsored by Revival Candle Company. Visit revivalcandlecompany.com and use our promo code SPOILMYMOVIE20 for 20% off your order. We've been a Revival customer since before we were podcasters, so you know we really love them. Why buy a crap candle when you can buy a ‘crack' candle? --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/spoilmymovie/message

Biceps are earned not given. The evolution of fitness has seen trends come and go; but one thing has never changed…push-ups, pull-ups, squats and going hard still work. Fran Racioppi is joined by Men's Health Fitness Director Eb Samuel live from the 2023 Sandlot Jax and GORUCK Games to bring fitness back to the basics and dispel the myths of today's fads. Eb started his career as a sports journalist covering the NY Giants biggest headlines, but also creating relationships with players based on his unique approach asking questions about workout routines, not just how they played on the field. Fran and Eb cover the evolution of journalism, the rise of social media and how great journalists maintain relationships with the athletes they cover. They also dig into foundational fitness. Simple movements based on precision execution and hard work. That's Eb's simple key to lifelong fitness for everyone from Arnold Schwartzenegger to freshman football. Eb also shares his new YouTube series Eb and Swole where he's coaching all of us on the basics, teaching us how to manage our training load as we age and instilling the importance of the mind-muscle connection. Learn more from Eb Samuel on social media. Read the full episode transcription here and learn more on The Jedburgh Podcast Website. Subscribe to us and follow @jedburghpodcast on all social media. Watch the full video version on YouTube. Highlights:0:00 Welcome to the Jedburgh Podcast and the Dodge WC-512:20 Eb becomes a journalist to cover athletics5:00 How do you develop trust between journalists and athletes10:16 Why journalists are putting their opinions before the story13:02 Eb lands his dream job at Men's Health (and interviews Arnold Schwartzenegger)17:08 Eb's theory on building fitness22:39 Managing an athlete's threshold training as they age26:42 The mind-muscle connection to drive muscle development30:49 What's next for fitness?33:12 Eb's Three Daily Foundations To Success Quotes: “To develop a good relationship with those guys it's about being around and being available.” (6:11)“It's pretty much my dream job…I wanted to talk to athletes about fitness and I wanted to get as fit as them.” (13:29)“The very basics of fitness don't change. Push-ups, pull-ups, squats. They all work.” (16:53) “The two things we really want to do are build as much muscle and strength as possible.” (19:24)“When we're younger we can play in all the tool sandboxes.” (24:50)“A lot of exercises are skill and you have to feel them in order to be able to do them.” (30:15)Eb Samuel's Three Daily Foundations To SuccessPick up something heavyBuild meaningful relationshipsSet a written to-do list This episode is brought to you by Jersey Mike's, Compass Workforce Solutions and GORUCK.

LOOK AS US GO! Emphasis on “LOOK”, dontcha know! Use your eyeballs and feast on the majesty that is VideoGis as she kicks off a new era of podcasting on YouTube. "But wait!" You surely are saying as you listen to the audio. "What about me?" ...Don't worry, we still got you with piping hot, fresh PodGis every week, the same way you've always enjoyed it. Even though PodGis has gone video, audio episodes will continue as scheduled, with the promise that I, Al Val, will do my best to be mindful of my audio listeners and not get too physical with my antics. In this episode Val cannot contain her excitement as she discusses blowup dolls, suffering fools at comedy clubs, the Pope's unfortunate orgasm predicament, religion vs. science, enjoying art, “Talk on Day”, punchline ruiners, and Arnold Schwartzenegger. How exciting! Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share as we pump out a new episode filled with antics every week!

NSFW Smack My Pitch Up 95 - Red Heat: Republican Mustache Transcript at the bottom of show notes Hobbit and Thandi start a new cold war as they fire of remakes and reimaginings of the 80's action classic Red Heat starring Jim Belushi and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Subscribe to Smack My Pitch UP! https://link.chtbl.com/smpu_gui_subscribe Check out tons of merch for the GUI Network on TeePublic: http://bit.ly/teepublicGUI GUI Network Hotline: (804) 505-4GUI (4484) (Message & data rates may apply) _________________________________________________ ● Track Info ● "In A World" "Bustin Loose" and "Assassins" by Jason Shaw (audionautix.com) These works are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License. creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en_US "Steve Combs Through" Theme by Steve Combs Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0) creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ geeksundertheinfluence@gmail.com for sponsorship inquiries   Transcript:   === Hobbit: [00:00:00] Hello geeks and welcome to another amazing episode of Smack My Pitch Up, the podcast that reboots remakes, reimagine sequels cycles, and adapts some of your favorite and least favorite properties from film, television, and whatever else we decide to do that week. And with me as always, my fateful companion into the realms of remakes. We got Thandi Woodard here. Thandi: How do, Hobbit: How Thandi: I wanted to say hello and Russian, but I could not remember what Hello and Russian is,  Hobbit: Yeah. I think I have was it nine? No, that's German. I don't know any Russian, actually.  Thandi: we all know Das Vidanya. Hobbit: Yeah. Sag. Yeah. There we go. That's all I've got and that's about as close to Russian as Arnold Schwarzenegger. In this next movie that we are talking about, I'll smack my pitch up. I was about to say, he does his best. He doesn't even try. Thandi: Can I tell you that I I chose this movie and I'm sorry, like it's not it's not. I [00:01:00] remembered it being fun and it's not unfun, but it's not good. It's not like eighties movies have their own vibe or whatever, and this is like the ultimate mediocre representation of mediocre eighties. Hobbit: I know a lot of stuff happens in this movie, but it does feel like nothing happens in this movie. It's just like they, they walk from point A to Thandi: said, everybody's. Just doing eighties. The Walter Hill's you know what guys? Just do just be eighties guys. Just be eighties guys and that'll be the movie that we put out as you guys being eighties guys. Just do that. Hobbit: It should have been understood just by the casting that they had the lesser belu. In this movie, and that should have been enough to know that, okay, we're just phoning this in. This is not nobody needs to really go for it on this one. Cuz Belushi, he's clearly the comic relief character like the smart ass, grizzled cop from Chicago character. But there's nothing funny about him at all. Like he's just he, it's not, he's not even annoying. He's just a [00:02:00] non-existent Thandi: And he's supposed to be funny because he's supposed to be like ably charming or whatever, but he's n he's just irritating and it is yeah. You feel what they're going for with this as an eighties movie, and it just, it doesn't all the way work. It's not bad. It's not terrible. It's just a wet fart of an eighties action. Hobbit: I will say the best part of this movie for. Has to be hands down. Not that there's a really big competition here, but when they're playing chicken with buses, that was really, I'm like, okay, you know what? That's new. I'm, I've not seen that there's a whole movie about a bus driving fast. Didn't go against another bus. It was just one bus. Thandi: sure. Why not? Yeah. Everybody should die here, but they're not or whatever, and it doesn't matter. Like I feel like the climax is really anti-climactic it, even though it's a big set piece. It doesn't go hard. It doesn't feel hard enough when it ends, and Schwartzenegger just ends the movie. He just ends [00:03:00] the Oh, the guy. Okay. You're gone. Needs a fight or something like schwartzenegger and Belushi fighting like 50 guys or something. Hobbit: That's the thing. Schwarzenegger doesn't even really fight a lot of people in this. He shoots a couple folks, but there's not a whole lot of hand to hand. Yeah. And Thandi: The naked fight in the snow, which is, it's fun. That's fun. Hobbit: That's fun. That is fun. Yeah, definitely. But we are talking about, if you didn't realize from the title of this episode we're talking about the movie Red Heat some classic eighties, Arnold Schwartzenegger. Buddy cop movie from Russia meets Chicago, I guess was the Thandi: What are the most eighties that ever aided with the lesser belu? Hobbit: also, this is like the tail end of the Cold War. This movie's coming out and you're rooting for the Russian operative this whole time, which is, that's a weird, that's a weird choice. There's No. [00:04:00] So it's not about rooting for the Russian operative. It's about rooting for the police. He's the police and you're supporting the, it's the, because even he's ah, we are not politicians. It's okay for us to be to like each other. Whatever. It's about respecting the police and supporting the police. Thandi: The working man basically. It's the work, it's the respect for the working man, whether they're Russian or American or whatever. And the heroic eighties style police that don't do anything wrong, it's just they're fighting against a corrupt world no matter what country they're in. Hobbit: I had a rollercoaster of emotion at one moment in this movie where they're talking about drugs in their countries Thandi: Yeah. Miami with, they're turning into Miami. Yeah. Hobbit: And Arnold is like in. Our country, we, you our country, I'm not gonna do it. Aye. Aye. Aye. They were having issues with like drugs coming in from China. So they rounded up all of all the drug Addicts, [00:05:00] all of the drug dealers and took them to the square and sh killed them. Like just shot 'em. And Belushi's response to that wasn't like, oh fuck, that's hardcore. He was like, yeah, they won't let us do that here. It's unfortunate. Like the politicians won't let us do that. And Schwarzenegger's then you tie them up and shoot them first. And she's huh. And so first he's talking rounding up the drug dealers and the drug addicts and like shooting. And I'm like, fuck, that's hardcore. And then he is like, just murder the politicians. I'm like, That Thandi: Yeah. And Belushi's no we. We gotta kind of follow the law and it they make light of the American justice system as it stands to protect the citizenry. I, in this movie, basically it's super hardcore like pro police state, Hobbit: It really is. Thandi: The, they're like the world's on fire because of darkies and foreigners, or, And the only way they're protect it is to have this hardcore, [00:06:00] no rules, no holds barred. Police state, Hobbit: and everybody's on board like that. That is, I really didn't dive that deep into the thought process between the Chicago police and these Russians that are showing up that are the enemy of the country. But they're all cops, so they're like, oh, you kill innocence too. Cool. Great. Okay. We're like, That is Buck Wild. What is nice about a movie? Yeah. . With a movie like this though, there is so much room to build from it that it does make for an interesting choice, for a smack my pitch up. Because Thandi: does because it you, you don't have to respect the movie. There's nothing to hold sacrosanct in this circumstance. You can go hog wild. Hobbit: And one thing that I really wanted to dig into more with mine is That Russia and the states aren't on the best of terms like that just kind of gets glazed over. If anything, it was more of they acted almost like they were buddies, but you still gotta be careful about your state [00:07:00] secrets. That was the kind of energy that they were playing with each other. It was like don't trust Americans don't trust the Russians. And that's it. I really want to inject a little bit more of. Cold War Energy back into this. Although my version is a modern take, it takes place in the modern day. But I just, there's so many weird choices in this movie for it to come out as just like a perfectly fine, mediocre movie. Tom or Jim Belushi, Jim Belushi and and Arnold. Hanging out together. It was like the Kmart version of True Lies with Tom Arnold. Got the the kind of like rubenesque like cop and then the the hardcore badass dude working together. But True lies worked. Thandi: Yeah. Yeah. The it's interesting because Walter Hill has directed some of our favorite movies, including a movie we've done a pitch on before. He was the director of the [00:08:00] Warriors. Hobbit: Oh, wow. This is so far removed from from the whimsy of the warrior. Thandi: Yeah it's so different from the Warriors. He was director of Streets of Fire. It's different from that. He directed both 48 hours, which are actually pretty decent. But tonally are very similar to this. They just the stars, they work better. They have better synchronicity maybe, I don't Because Arnold Schwarzenegger is a big freaking movie star. And actually Jim Belushi can be okay, as I remembered, cuz I saw this in the theater back in the day. I thought he was okay in this. But yeah, this is a little bit obnoxious. Maybe it's just a product of so much time having passed, but. Hobbit: I don't know, but I am interested to see how we decide to build upon this this very simple structure. Basic gist is there is a Russian former operative or current operative that goes to the states to work out a drug deal to move Koch into [00:09:00] Russia. And Arnold is tapped to go get Thandi: Oh, he's a career criminal. He's a career Hobbit: oh, career criminal. Yeah. And he's mother Russia doesn't wanna look bad in the face of the Americans and the rest of the world by having drugs like brought into their country. Arnold goes to stop him basically to get him without airing the dirty laundry of what he gets stopped for. Cuz he's gets stopped for like an unregistered gun. Right. Is that the Thandi: Arnold goes after him because he killed his partner. Hobbit: Sure. That's why he gets, that's why he gets tapped basically. Is that yeah you're gonna do a good job here going after this guy. And and he kind of does. I like this. Injecting a little more plot into this. Mine is a modern day take it has a stylized action kind of vibe to it where everybody is able everybody looks good, nobody's tripping over themselves. It's not like a it's not so much comedic [00:10:00] as it is kind of fun and it's approach. Some comedic moments, but definitely more of a just straight up, like over like stylized action kind of movie. For me, I, Ivan Danco was a very hard casting choice. I needed somebody that was, if not Russian, able to do a decent Russian accent. So that required a little bit of research. I decided to go with a kind of a, you think of him like he would be an action star and he is done some action movies, but he is done more dramas than he's done action movies is Tom. Thandi: Oh, yeah, Tom Hardy is an action star and he's a great dramatic actor. He's both things. Hobbit: And I think there's a stoic sense that he has, especially if you saw Lawless. He's really good in that that I think would lend itself to playing an Ivan Danco kind of character. And he was in a movie called Child 44, where he had a Russian accent and it was good. It was a decent Russian accent. It wasn't too over the [00:11:00] top. It. My favorite Russian accent, which is clearly John Malkovich and Rounders. That is definitely Thandi: still made fun of today. Yeah. Hobbit: I need to find the shirt. I found a shirt that it says on the shirt. I need that shirt. It's brilliant. If you haven't seen rounders, the movies, whatever it's a fine movie, I guess, but Thandi: Was it you that No, it was a YouTube video I saw recently. Who was in that movie with him? One of his co-stars. Hobbit: There was oh, who was in it? Matt. Matt Damon was in it, I think. And it was Matt Damon. So. Malkovich is doing the pee Him he's doing the horrible Russian accent or whatever, and everybody's oh, yay, John Malkovich and Matt Damon's what the fuck is this guy doing? And then there's a they, this, there's a scene break and Malkovich sees the confusion on Matt Damon's face and he looks across the table at him and he is I'll tell you a secret. [00:12:00] I'm a terrible actor. That's it. That's incredible. That is incredible. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. I thoroughly suggest, if you haven't seen Rounders is worth it just for. Malkovich is bits in it, it's so fucking good. But yeah, Tom Hardy can actually do a Russian accent play. Ivan Donk. This version of the film Ivan is drafted to go after a former military asset Victor Rust roti that, yeah, former former Ukrainian. Picked up by the, by Russia to do cyber warfare. Basically, he's a hacker type person. He, his estranged daughter and not wife. The Gina Ghan character, I switched from wife because they never even have any moments of chemistry or anything. And it doesn't matter. I feel like a daughter has a little bit more like ooph [00:13:00] to it, and their relationship are a little different here. He's a strange daughter is young adult living in the America, is doing her thing. He really just has been absent from her life, wants to do stuff best by her, and is seeing this vast amount of corruption that's happening within his country and also within the United States. Partly a cocaine shipment that is getting ready to be shipped to Russia courtesy of the CIA as a means of trying to like they did with KRA in. In the in the eighties destabilization. Yeah. what they don't realize is that Russia's already got crocodile. So Coke doesn't do dick for them. Like coke, cocaine is like a cup of coffee. But Thandi: could you sprinkle some bath salts on this? Hobbit: right? But he decides since there's this large amount of cocaine and money being exchanged between governments in a super secret way, that he has access to the information on where it. He can steal it or, and use [00:14:00] that as a means of getting money from both governments, pitting them against each other and getting out a dodge with his daughter while they go fighting one another. He's basically setting up the governments to blame each other for the disappearing coke and u and using the money that he gets from extorting to basically disappear off the map of his daughter. That's his. And it goes awry. It does not work. Ivan NCO gets sent out by the Russian government to stop him because if he gets caught by the Americans, he has a ton of Russian secrets that he would probably very handily hand over exchange for his freedom. So he's a danger to the Russian military. And the CIA is doing something super fucking underhanded and he knows about it. And so they want to quiet him before the word gets out that the c a is trafficking cocaine to Russia. So both governments are after him. Ivan Danco is kind of in the middle, not realizing after he gets to America that this is some dirty pool that's being played. And Victor [00:15:00] Lev is a unhinged weirdo that he has to basically track down and try to get the information from without everybody dying. So Ivan NKOs, Tom Hardy his partner played by Jim Pucci in the original Art Riddick. I'm gonna go ahead and do Chris Pratt for this one. He is married to Arnold Schwarzenegger's daughter. And I thought it would be kind of fun to cast him in this and just him putting on like a shitty mustache like he had in one of the Guardians movies. He had a mustache for two. In one of the Avengers movies or something give 'em a shitty mustache, make them like a grizzled Chicago cop that's trying to do one-liners, but they don't land very well against Tom Hardy, who's stoic and just not having any of it. And I think the uncomfortable nature of that relationship would make for actually really funny moments. Thandi: That would be a man Tom Hardy would eat Prat alive, Hobbit: Would eat him a [00:16:00] lot. Absolutely. Pratt would be like, stupidity, dude dance or something, and Tom Hardy would just stare through him be incredible. In the meantime, they're trying to chase down Victor Roli, who is played by the incomparable Peter Stormeyer. Thandi: Oh, perfect. That's basically Peter Stormeyer of his career is playing that guy. Hobbit: He is playing the big old weirdo like Eastern European guy. Don't even give him fucking lines. Let him just make them up and it will be a better movie. Honestly. Peter Stormer, if you're not familiar, he was one of the nihilists in the Big Lebowski. He's, he was the devil in Constantine. He did the, was it the VW commercials for a little bit, right? I. Thandi: Did he Hobbit: I think, yeah, he's, he is done everything. He is incredible. He is such a blast to watch on screen. He'll steal every moment. Then Lieutenant Stops played by Lawrence Fishburne in a horribly underutilized role. They didn't do shit with him in this movie. Thandi: He was just there to be that [00:17:00] guy. wasn't lo, he wasn't Larry Fishburn yet. So But I wanted to give, I wanted to give the little more gravitas to the lieutenant in the fishburn can do don't get me wrong, but I wanted to give the role a little bit more gravitas and still have an actor that can have that kind of intensity that you want from a lieutenant so Denzel all day make him like angry lieutenant. Hobbit: And then the daughter, Kat Manetti is, her mother's name was Manetti. She took her mother's name the daughter of Victor Rostovetti. I went with Mia Kunis, who is actually fluent in Russian and is part Thandi: has the. Hobbit: and she has the look. So I think she would make for a good estranged daughter character to Peter store. Mayor would Thandi: Definitely I could a hundred percent see that, that relationship. Hobbit: And with Chris Pratt with Denzel Washington stylized action movie. I [00:18:00] went with the director Anton Fuqua to set this up and hit it outta the park. Oh, that'd be a good time. And. It's interesting cuz Anton Fuqua, I don't think has ever made like a movie that has fun energy. I think his movies do have lots of energy, but it's all threatening. It's all a little bit more intense, but he has done the straight ahead action film that doesn't have a lot of depth to it, and he's also done the really good. Thoughtful like borderline artistic action film as well. So I think him being able to play with the full speed ahead action film, but have an awkward comedic tone to it, I think would be, he got close with Magnificent seven, like he did almost get there just because of the kind of actors that he had in those roles. This casting, I think he would be impossible not to get some funny moments between Tom Hardy and Chris Pratt, Peter store Mayer, [00:19:00] talking to Mia Kuni Mia Kuni talking to Chris Pratt and Tom Hardy and Chris Pratt flirting a bit, and Tom Hardy being very, not okay with it. And just their, all the relationships I think would be very fun to see on. Thandi: Now, there'd be some fun energy to see them play off of each other. Hobbit: Yeah. Thandi: little intensity there too. Anybody with Tom Hardy? There's gonna be some some intensity. Hobbit: absolutely, and that's why I wanted Tom Hardy is to be the anchor of this, because with those other actors, there is a good chance that this would just get away from the director. But Tom Hardy, he's a really good actor and he is able to play that intense character. And if he. Holds that down. It keeps everybody at a level where the fun can still be there, but it's still held down as a straight ahead action film. So yeah, that is my pitch for for red heat. Thandi: I would enjoy seeing that. I only have one beef, which is that you made old ass Denzel, a lieutenant. [00:20:00] He should be the police captain. Hobbit: That's okay. That is a fair assessment, but also police captains not going out and getting shotgun shot at him on the street. So yeah, he's in the office asking for guns and badges for cops that do things their own way. Thandi: turn in your badge. Hobbit: turn Thandi: You're the best we got. It's a damn shade. But we have rules in this department. Hobbit: I don't like, I don't like how you do things, but Damnit you get results. Yeah. Thandi: Oh, eighties. Captain you're a treasure Hobbit: why isn't there a parody movie just called eighties Police Captain and it's just this like wide open, disgruntled police captain would be fucking incredible. I'd be there for Thandi: because not enough people still smoke cigars maybe. I don't know. But yes, that would be a lot of fun. Hobbit: Because Tom Sellek has retired his mustache and Thandi: I don't know if you've ever watched Blue Bloods, but Tom Sellek is awesome. Tom Sellek makes you want to be Republican. [00:21:00] That's how Hobbit: Oh wow. Thandi: is like a, is like an old like state and respectable white man. You're like, man, you guys have some really good ideas. Tom Sellek is good. He is good at his. If you watched him on Magnum PI and you saw him now, you'd be like, wow, that is quite a transformation. But he is, he's a joy to watch as like the respected you remember back when John McCain was running for president, you saw John McCain. You were like, you know what, I wouldn't, I'm not gonna vote for you, but I respect you, John McCain. I almost felt the same way about Romney. also, like guys who present respectability. Even if I don't agree with their policies, I'm like, oh, you won't be a monster. Especially now in retrospect when actual monsters have taken over the landscape of the right of American politics and yeah. Tom Sellek as a human being, as a callback to a different time. [00:22:00] You only use the N word at home in Tom Sellek's world. It's just you don't take it out into public. Hobbit: I pictured old Tom Sellek as living in a log cabin near a creek with his dog, and he wears like one of those puffy vests on Dewey, slightly chilly mornings as he's out there fishing. Thandi: Yeah. And then he comes down the street and he is you got some problems with your house. I see your roof needs some work. Let's get up there. But I'm sleeping. I'm tired, Tom Sellek. I'll be up on the roof. I'll meet you up there when you get up and Tom Sellek like fixes your roof cuz he's that kind of neighbor that's the kind of Tom Sellek that lives in my mind. Hobbit: That's the one that, those Hallmark movies where there's like the racist neighbor, but he's not actually racist. He just he like treats everybody with respect, but he just doesn't like, like blacks or something. But there's no example of him being shitty at any point to anyone. But that's just like a thrown in character thing. That doesn't make sense. That's [00:23:00] Tom Selleck where. Thandi: Yeah he is Clint Eastwood. If Clint East Wood's characters didn't actually actively complain about yellow people and black people Hobbit: Oh man. Whew. I'm just thinking of grand Torino and some of the moments in that movie were, whew a lot. Thandi: Man it's kind of a shame, this is a little tangent, but it's kind of a shame that all of our our grizzled like old school actors have been become monsters over the course of time. You can be that person. You're old, of course you're that person. That's fine. Just shut the fuck up. Just shut the fuck up and be awesome. You know who I think of all the time because I'm like, man, you are just a treasure on screen and you should be in real movies and not these things produced directly by like conservative interests. James Woods. James Woods is a, an incredible screen presence and the dude's a monster. It's okay to be a [00:24:00] monster. Just be a monster silently and get your paper and continue to entertain us. Hobbit: I don't, I think he kind of showed his hand a little bit in John Carpenter's vampires, cuz he was such a prick in that movie and you're like, he's doing this too. Like James Wood is a good actor, but he's not, that he's not that good of an actor. That was just him. Killing the vampires. That wasn't, he wasn't playing a character at that point. He was like saying racist shit. Like he just smoking a cigar and just being an asshole at everybody. You're like, that's the, that's actually the most real James Wood has ever been on screen Thandi: incredible asshole. He's an incredible asshole, but all right, tangent over my pitch. Hobbit: Okay. All right. So Thandi: got lost in the Hobbit: doing the serious take. The remix is all on you. Thandi: remix. Hobbit: Wiki. Thandi: So my inspiration for this pitch came from Schwarzenegger's line that I mentioned earlier where he is it's okay to like each other. We are not to politicians. And I'm like, but what if they were politicians? And so the angle I'm coming [00:25:00] at this from is because it's not a good movie. I don't have to respect anything. I'm going batshit crazy balls to the wall. My movie takes place in a world where, what if they were politicians? But in this world, politicians are, they're all Chuck Norris. Basically. Every poli every world leader is like Teddy Roosevelt or like Vladimir Putin. They're like, oh, you could probably kill a guy with your bare hands. And in this world, they come into direct conflict. So there's like fisticuffs and tough, everybody's like an eighties tough. With eighties tough guy interactions, direct conflict, like old white dudes and old white ladies beating each other up directly because that's just the tone of this world, that the leader is the strongest person basically. Hobbit: Like Sunday Church every week is the church scene from the Kingsmen. That's okay. Cool. Thandi: Whipping some ass. Yes. So in my skew of this movie what [00:26:00] if they were. Politicians. Basically what happens is that the premier of Russia who is played by John Cena and he is Russian premiere Victor Resta Rust is involved in a situation where he's basically trying to get access to some crypto, and In that conflict, he comes into direct conflict with Mickey Rourke, who is the president of Belarus. Yuri Oga Carav, which was the partner of Schwarzenegger who got killed. And he kills him. He kills him with his bare hands and his best friend, the president of Poland, is out for revenge and what they find out is that the crypto keys are actually in America. The physical keys are in America. They're stored on a server somewhere in America. That's the information he has. So he does like what is kind of disguised as a a [00:27:00] political visit to America. John Cena's character, the Russian Premier does, and the Polish president, Ivan Danko, who is played by. Not doing a Russian accident or a Polish accident at all. Gerard Butler is Ivan Danko. Hobbit: Yes. Thandi: follows the Russian Premier to America and has a coming together scene with a former American president, former president, art Riddick. You son of a bitch. I need help. And they do the predator handshake, that kind of thing. And art Riddick is played by will. Who is doing a very thinly veiled, basically Barack Obama Will Smith is playing action Barack Obama. Hobbit: Yes, Thandi: So they they come. Hobbit: Because just to have a sidequel where it's just a UN meetup and it's just a royal rumble, like that's all it is. It's just royal rumble. Every time the UN gets [00:28:00] together, it's just them in a ring beating the shit out of each other. Thandi: Perfect for the world stage that I have set here. But so they meet in America, do the muscle handshake they bring in the former Secretary of State, Maxine Gallagher, who was Ridley's partner in the first movie, Maxine Gallagher's, played by Charlene Theron, and she's basically doing Hillary Clinton.  Hobbit: Bill wishes  Thandi: They bring in this third to help huge action scene. She is killed by the premiere of Russia. So they get in a huge set peace fight, and he beats the shadow of her and kills her. And then that murder necessitates the involvement of the current presidential administration. Which is as President Lou Donnelly, who is the captain president. Lou Donnelly is Liam Neeson. Basically Liam Neeson doing Joe Biden And he can't help directly, he can't be involved directly. So he gets his vp, his lieutenant to oversee [00:29:00] the the operation of these two world leaders coming together to, to try to take down the Russian premiere in America cover. His vice president Louise Stubs is Aisha, Tyler Hobbit: Yes. Thandi: So they have they have action scenes through DC into some other parts of the country back to dc in their little game of cat and mouse. Ross has American allies his American allies taking the place of the black nationalists or whatever they were in the original movie . Ultranationalist Whites known as the hard lads, and their uh, congressional ally is a person known as Porsche Adams Veld. And so that's their congresswoman that's helping the Ultranationalist Hard lads help Raeli kills ve because she can't actually help him. She fails in, when you fail a Russian, you get murdered. So he, she kills Veed or he kills. And the game of Cat and Mouse [00:30:00] continues, and then it ends with a big ass fight on the steps of the Lincoln Monument with Danko and Riddick tag teaming to beat the shit out of the bigger, stronger rust. And they beat the Russian to premiere to death in front of the Lincoln Monument and And then Not enough. Not enough people get beaten to death in front of the Lincoln Monument. Really like I what I'm saying. So the movie's almost over and, but basically they're like, oh, but what happened to the crypto keys? And then Danko finds out that former President Ridic had the keys all along. He passes them off to the Polish president, who then takes the crypto keys and the money that comes with that back to his country and scene. Hobbit: Yes, I'm here for just, I want. A series of movies to exist in this world that you've created. You can just take whatever eighties action movie and just do a version of it in [00:31:00] this eighties action, hero politician world that you've created. I wanna see it.  Thandi: It would be big fun. And so my directors for this a lot of their brand is just like paring eighties action. Iconography, it drives a lot of what they find humorous. Trey Parker and Matt Stone. I'm thinking like a Team America vibe going through this movie and I was like, man the idea itself is very Trey Parker and Matt Stone. So those are my directors for this project. Hobbit: I am now realizing that the thing that the world has missed is them doing an action movie. They've done Team America with puppets, but I mean like a live action movie. I think the world is ready. I think we're ready for it. Thandi: Yeah, I would love to see, because it'd be a good time. They I don't think they would do a straight action move. They'd still try to parody something and it would be a good. Hobbit: Hell yeah. I'm here for it. Sweet. Red heat. I don't know man, like this could be paired with basically any eighties action movie, especially buddy cop thing. I was thinking like running Scared [00:32:00] Oh, definitely. They could go on vacation. They could go on vacation for 40 minutes with the fellas in the middle of the movie. I've always wanted to see that action movie where you just have two separate movies that come out around the same time and there's just one scene that is in both movies where like they kind of enter into each other. Thandi: kinda walked by each other. How you doing? Hobbit: Or they're chasing their own bad guys, but they end up driving next to each other during a car chase or something and looking at each other like, huh. And then they just trail off into different directions and then the movies continue. But there's just that one shared moment in both movies would be incredible. Thandi: Yeah, that would be incredible. That'd be incredible. I feel like that is the kind of thing that would take place probably in the past 20 years. I feel like there could easily have been a scene like that with the mocking of pop culture generally and also the crossover culture because crossovers bring money. So, yeah, Hobbit: Yeah, true. Very true. Hell yeah. We've got one last little bit to do here, and that is our trailer. [00:33:00] Some people's favorites, some people's least favorite from from the show. I'm gonna get some music together and we'll get that going From Visionary Director Anton Fuqua comes anew. Cold War this summer. Ivan Danko, played by Tom Hardy teams up with Hardened Chicago, detective Art Riddick, played by Chris Pratt as they try to stop the world from being handed a Coke this summer, Peter Storm Air plays Victor Roli, a broken man. Just trying to find a way to. Insert himself into his daughter's life and one big secret Coke deal could be the answer. Watch as Russia and America team up to fight the drug trade and that they also are facilitating a bit. It's kind of a problem this summer. Red heat. Thandi: Iran Contra, Hobbit: [00:34:00] Yeah, part two. Thandi: That is that is good times. I'm not ready for this at all. You know how I used to write all my trailers? I haven't written a trailer in a while, so I am wing it yet again. Hobbit: You wing it a little better than me though. So I still have faith. I used to say that I did the Justin Rowland thing, but I don't think that is a phrase that I can use anymore.  Thandi: Ooh. Yeah. You should probably not say that out loud. Hobbit: that loud . What I mean Thandi: people will start looking at your text messages if you Hobbit: Yeah, right. what I mean is that I just go and then stuff happens. So let's see. So you're doing your wackadoo eighties action hero politician. Version here with Trey Parker and Matt Stone. Thandi: That is correct. Hobbit: Excellent. All right, let me cue up the music. Thandi: The 44 Magnum is the most powerful handgun in the world. No, the most powerful hand weapons in the world are these four fists. [00:35:00] Let's get him from the minds of Trey Parker and Matt Stone coming at you. President Will Smith President. Oh God. Scottish guy, other president. Brain farting and Premier John Cena, Andrew R. Butler are in a three-way conflict to make the world safe for cryptocurrency as they bring the red heat Hobbit: You'll the Scottish guy. I love it. I love it. That's great. all. You have, you've done Russia proud with that retelling of their national movie red heat. Thandi: Yeah, it is a national treasure. It's like the Battleship Potemkin, and then red heat is a [00:36:00] close Hobbit: Yep. Exactly. So that was a really good time. I think we, not that the bar was very high, but I think we actually outdid the original, much like John Carpenter's the Thing. The, sometimes the remake is better than the original. We're Thandi: Yeah, I think we did. Hobbit: jumping rope Thandi: we should do more shitty movies I think. I think we should stop doing these darlings and just start picking stuff from the 99 cent bin. And that's what we do. The pitch max on 90 site, 99 cent bin movies. Hobbit: I don't think that's a bad call, but you do know that path leads to, at some point, doing battlefield Earth.  Thandi: Oh I don't wanna do the Scientologist movie. Hobbit: don't either. But I think honestly there are a few movies where  the premise is decent, but the execution was terrible that we could possibly have a lot of fun putting our own little spin on. So I think we're gonna dig in a little bit deeper into this territory for future episodes. Thandi: It's a new podcast. Hobbit: Woo. Thandi, thank you so much again for [00:37:00] joining me on this adventure through Chicago's Mean Streets This time. Although not Mean Streets, that's a far superior movie. But yeah. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe, all the things you do for podcasts for this show. We are gonna be releasing regularly, so you can definitely expect a lot more weird and fun content coming your way from smack my pitch up. Make sure to check out all the other shows on the network at guipodcast.com. Make sure to check out Thandi's other show. Thandi: My handle is Jonathan Blade. It's about the musings of internet citizen Jonathan Blade, who happens to be me. Me, Hobbit: Me. So check all that stuff out and we'll find you next time for another episode. I'm Michael Hobbit Thandi: and I'm Thandi. Hobbit: and uh, you just got this pitch smacked out of ya. Thandi: Yeah, just like your communism bitches. Hobbit: Get to the remake. Now that was terrible.

Fantasy February begins with the king of the sword and sorcery movies...1982's Conan The Barbarian. This fantasy epic stars Arnold Schwartzenegger in the role he seemed destined to play! After being orphaned by an invading hoard, Conan becomes a slave who, once freed, seeks revenge against James Earl Jones' Thulsa Doom and his snake worshiping cult!

It's Chris's birthday so I wanted to catch up with him and hear this righteous story. It may be his birthday, but he's the one giving the gifts on this episode. Let's hear how Chris stared down his hero, the devastating aftermath, and what he learned. I'll also share some personal things in my life lately. Enjoy the show, and Happy Birthday Chris!

Arnold Schwartzenegger puts on an incredible performance. Loosely based on a real-life event. FIND OUT HERE!!!! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/politicalthisradio/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/politicalthisradio/support

Here it is, at long last: Kaveh and Rebecca discuss the finale of Amazon's The Boys, but not without more diversions than perhaps any previous episode of Girls on Boys. Poop, Michael Rappaport, Arnold Schwartzenegger,...

What if I told you that there is something out there that can help you build lean muscle, boost endurance, reduce fatigue, help you perform better, help slow down the aging process, with virtually no downsides? Not only that, it's something that is super cheap, safe, and has been rigorously studied for decades. You'd probably say it's too good to be true. Well, it actually is true. It's creatine. Yes, the supplement that bodybuilders have been taking forever to bulk up can also be incredibly beneficial to endurance athletes as well. Now, you might be wondering how this can possibly be true. After all, most endurance athletes don't want to grow Arnold Schwartzenegger muscles and tend not to have much in common with the gym bros trying to bulk up. But mention boosted endurance and reduction in soreness? Now we're getting excited. Coach Claire dives down the creatine rabbit hole with registered sports dietician Kelly Jones. In this episode of the Run to the Top, you'll learn: what the benefits of creatine are for endurance athletes, and how to use it what the myths and potential downsides are to creatine and we'll go over protein for runners in general from essential amino acids, branched chain amino acids, and more If you've ever wondered if there was a cheap, safe, and effective way to boost your performance, this is the episode for you. Download your FREE Guide Covering Questions & Misconceptions About Creatine Supplementation! Connect, Comment, Community Follow RunnersConnect on Instagram Join the Elite Treatment where you get first dibs on everything RTTT each month! Runners Connect Winner's Circle Facebook Community  RunnersConnect Facebook page GET EXPERT COACHING AT RUNNERSCONNECT! This week's show brought to you by: LMNT Maintaining healthy electrolyte levels will not only improve performance and endurance on the run, but can help with preventing headaches, maintaining a healthy weight, and help with recovery.  That's why we recommend all runners check out Element this summer. It's loaded with everything you need to replenish your electrolyte balance with 1000mg of sodium, 200mg of potassium, and 60mg of magnesium, and doesn't include anything you don't need like extra sugar or anything artificial. Even better, they are currently running a special deal where you can get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any order. So, order your favorite flavor and get a free sample pack to try out new flavors or share with your running friends.   To get this special offer and make sure you're hydrating properly this summer, head over to drinklmnt.com/runnersconnect. BIO Pro + As we get older our body slowly stops producing the natural hormones, HGH, responsible for muscle repair, growth and recovery. BioPro+ is a non-synthetic alternative to prescription HGH growth hormone treatments. It's a natural way to replace the growth hormones you lose as you age. There's no injecting, no prescriptions, and it's all natural. If you'd like to learn more, go to runnersconnect.net/bio. Read the science for yourself and see if it's something you'd like to try. If so, use the code runnersconnect and you'll also get $30 off.

Would you like to receive a daily, random quote by email from my Little Box of Quotes?https://constantine.name/lboqA long long time ago I began collecting inspirational quotes and aphorisms. I kept them on the first version of my web site, where they were displayed randomly. But as time went on, I realized I wanted them where I would see them. Eventually I copied the fledgeling collection onto 3×5 cards and put them in a small box. As I find new ones, I add cards. Today, there are nearly 1,000 quotes and the collection continues to grow.My mission is creating better conversations to spread understanding and compassion. This podcast is a small part of what I do. Drop by https://constantine.name for my weekly email, podcasts, writing and more.

Would you like to receive a daily, random quote by email from my Little Box of Quotes? https://constantine.name/lboq A long long time ago I began collecting inspirational quotes and aphorisms. I kept them on the first version of my web site, where they were displayed randomly. But as time went on, I realized I wanted them where I would see them. Eventually I copied the fledgeling collection onto 3×5 cards and put them in a small box. As I find new ones, I add cards. Today, there are more than 1,000 quotes and the collection continues to grow. Hello, I'm Craig Constantine

To join or not to join, that is the question. Anne & Pilar delve deep into how union & non-union work has shaped their careers. They discuss the biz before SAG and AFTRA merged, jobs in a right-to-work state, and changes in work accessibility due to tech advances & the pandemic. Joining the union is a very personal choice, and depends on where you live and what genres you wish to work in. Learn from Pilar as she shares her journey to joining the union + Anne who explains her reasons for remaining non-union so you can make the best choice for you like a #VOBOSS. >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to be back again with my very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Hey Pilar. How are you today? PIlar: I am doing great, Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm doing awesome this beautiful morning. Hey, I got a question for you. I have a lot of students that ask me about the union and should they be part of the union and when is the time for them to join the union. And I also have another student who's going to be moving to California, and they're asking these questions about the union. So I think it would be a great time to talk about it with you, because I know that you are a union member, and I like to kind of do a here's the union 101 kind of class in the podcast today. So I know there's a lot of people out there that have questions. And tell me a bit about how you joined the union. Pilar: Well, I have a long history with the union. I started out actually in New York because I got extra work on "One Life to Live" back when there were a lot of soap operas. And basically the day that I walked into the area where they -- the holding room, where you have all the extras sit, this very nice person, stuck out her hand and said, hi, I'm so-and-so, a member of AFTRA, the local representative. And I thought, oh, this is interesting. So literally I had not stepped foot on a soundstage in New York when there was somebody already basically saying to me, this is an offer you can't refuse. And so, yeah, because it's like, you don't really have a choice. You have to become a member of the union. Anne: You gotta join here. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. So I did, I joined happily, and I actually did a lot of extra work with the different soap operas in New York. And then when I went to Colombia, they don't have unions down there. They didn't. Now they are starting to, they do have something together. Anne: Let me just back up. You were in New York at what time? What year was it that you joined the union in New York? Pilar: Oh gosh, this was the 90s. Anne: Okay. Pilar: This was in the nineties. And this is when, because AFTRA is not -- everybody thinks of AFTRA as just radio, but also -- Anne: Yeah, that's what I remember. Pilar: Yeah. AFTRA's also TV. Anne: But not all TV though, right? Pilar: But not all TV. Exactly. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I want to say that AFTRA might just be daytime TV or it was daytime TV or maybe it was -- Anne: Plus radio, Pilar: -- like game shows and stuff like that. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. Because when I got into the industry, you know, it was all AFTRA. There was no SAG. There was all AFTRA for voice actors, that that's what you were supposed to join. And then they merged at some point. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. And actually AFTRA stands for the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. Anne: Yes. Yes. Pilar: So that tells you right there, that it was specifically for some forms of television. I'm not really sure back then what the distinction was, but SAG and AFTRA were completely separate unions. Anne: So you were in New York and you were an AFTRA member in the 90s, and then you went to Colombia. And you were on, you were on television in Colombia, but there's. yeah, no unions. Pilar: No unions, but I kept my AFTRA card anyway, because I thought you never know. And dues were very, very low. So I just, I kept it, I kept it up and then I came back to -- Anne: Good thinking. Pilar: Yeah. Well, yeah. Thank goodness. Yes. Yes. Anne: 'Cause you were in Colombia for, what, eight years, right? Pilar: Nine years, nine years. Anne: So a while. So I like that manifestation that you never know, right, when you're going to need that card again or that status. Okay. Cool. All right. Pilar: And the dues back then were very, you know, they were very reasonable, so it wasn't, it wasn't a big deal. So I come back to Miami because I decide I want to be halfway between Bogota and New York. Anne: And that was in the 2000s, right? Pilar: That was in the 2000s, early 2000s. And then I discovered that Miami is a right to work state. Anne: So let's talk about that. Let's define that first. What is a right to work state? Pilar: Okay. So the actual definition of a right to work state is that states have the authority to determine whether workers can be required to join a labor union, to get and keep a job. So labor unions still operate in those states, but workers, they can't be forced to become members as a requirement of their job, which they do have to be, let's say, in New York or Los Angeles, if you want to work on a soundstage. Anne: Right, you have to be in the -- Pilar: You have to be a member of the union. Yeah. And they're very strict with that. And I remember when I worked in, in television in the times that I did extra work, it was so interesting to be on the soundstage. And for example, the coordinator, the guy who yells 5, 4, 3, 2, you know, 1, one time, the director was already in the booth and the actors were on stage, and the guy went to move the plate, and he was not allowed to, because a member of the prop union had to come over and move the plate two inches forward. They're very, very strict about that. And for good reason, you know, because that's -- the unions are there to protect the workers. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: And what each person's job is. So when I got to Miami, I started auditioning and I started getting non-union jobs. And I was happy with that. And every, I remember union actors complains saying once they became union, then there weren't as many possibilities. Anne: Because there was other people vying for the same roles, right? Pilar: Yes, exactly. And there was so much competition. And so non-union actor could vie for a union job. Whereas in other states like California, Los Angeles -- Anne: You had to be union. Pilar: You had to be union. So I kept booking work and you know, I was, I was fine with that. And this, I was booking on camera work at that time. Anne: Did people try to convince you to join the union? Were you offered? Pilar: No, because Florida is a little bit like the wild west, back then it was. And so there was nobody compelling, no -- there was nobody showing up at the door saying, you gotta, you gotta join. No, not like, not like in New York. Anne: Right. Pilar: And so one day I got a call from my agent and she said, you booked a SAG commercial. And I thought, oh, okay, this is cool. And it's just, it's so interesting. The world of non-union versus union. 'Cause I did a ton of extra work in New York on films. And so I think I mentioned that before, like I basically touched Arnold Schwartzenegger's sleeve. And then one time I was in this Michael J. Fox film, and we were in a theater, we -- no, it was just, uh, just hoards of non-union extras sitting in the seats, and then there's this altercation. And then James Woods comes and I don't know what he does. And literally he had a cowboy boot on, I'll never forget it. And he stepped on my foot. And so we did like four takes, and every time he went in, he stepped exactly on my foot. I mean, he, like, my foot was his mark, so wild. And so I've actually, it's so funny. 'Cause I looked at that, I've looked at that scene and you can't really see me. You can see my jacket, and you can see me for like a second, but I'm like, yep. That's the day that I got a bruise that covered my foot for about a week. Oh my gosh. It was so painful. But I was so excited because, you know, James Woods stepped on my foot -- Anne: Stepped on your foot. Absolutely. Right. Pilar: It was interesting. And I also did extra work on "Law and Order," and they treated the union actors very differently from the way they treated the non-union actors. And I remember thinking, wow, they get like extra candy bars. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: Right. And they get like special food. Anne: Yep. Pilar: And it's a whole different world. And they were all in cliques and they would bring their board games and their jigsaw puzzles. And they would, 'cause you know, you're basically waiting all day to do something. And you, the time that you work is so little, but I just remember looking at them going, wow, that's such a cool world. And it's, you know, it's the world of waiting. It's like, you're just basically a waiter. You know, you wait and you wait. So I did a whole bunch of those in New York. And then I started doing more non-union principal work. And then when I got this SAG commercial, I was treated like a queen. I couldn't believe it. I was like, usually you go -- when you're an extra, you go and you, you bring your own clothes, and they look at your clothes and you put your own makeup on, and they treat you a little bit like cattle. I mean, you know, the people are nice. The PA's are nice, but you're just basically shuffled off into a room and you're in. Then they, you know, they, they're, you know, it's food and whatever. When you're like as a union person -- and this, I didn't even have a speaking part. It was a really, really fun thing. We were just all these characters in like this little sort of little mini play of an office, and my makeup was done. My hair was done. They kept fiddling with my outfit, and I was just like, wow, this is what it's like to be in the union. And at that point I wasn't a member of the union. So that was a really special moment. This was like my first SAG on camera commercial. It was like the big leagues because I had done that extra work on daytime TV that was AFTRA back in New York. But this felt really, really special. And so, I don't know, maybe a couple months after that I received a letter. Anne: I was going to say, you did the commercial, you did the commercial, the SAG commercial. And then they asked you to join? Pilar: Yes, yes. And then they asked me to join. And -- Anne: Was it a requirement? It was a requirement? Pilar: Nope, because you -- a lot of the times what happens is let's say you're, you're an extra, and then you get upgraded to a principal. That happens a lot. And that's how people become members of the union. That that's how it used to be. Now it's, it's a lot more tightly controlled, but that's how a lot of people used to get their SAG cards. So I received that letter, and I wasn't a member of the SAG union when I did the commercial. Anne: Right. But they treated you so nicely. And then you say, wow, I want that again. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I get that. Pilar: I want to get my hair and makeup done. Anne: I want hair and makeup and yeah. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was really spoiled in Colombia because I mean, I would go to work pretty much every day 'cause I worked four or five days a week. And so I would just go home with my makeup, and I would go out. And so, you know, it had been so long when I was back in the States that it was just nice. I was like, oh wow. This could be really fun to have this on a regular basis. And I decided I wasn't ready to join the union because it was expensive to join it. Anne: So AFTRA it wasn't necessarily costly, but SAG was a different story back then? Pilar: Yes. SAG was different story. Yeah. Yeah. Because the, the initiation dues for AFTRA were so low when I joined, but SAG was, you know, SAG, it was a big deal. And what was going to happen was that then I couldn't do any non-union work. Anne: Exactly. Exactly. Pilar: Then I start getting into voiceover, and then I started doing -- I find that there's a lot of voiceover dubbing going on. So I start going to all these different studios. Anne: So bring me up to date as to what year. Have they merged yet? Because by the way, BOSSes, in case you're not familiar SAG and AFTRA did merge. Pilar: This is like 2010. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Where I start working in voiceover and I start going to the different studios. Anne: And you're a member of both unions. Pilar: No, no, I'm still a member of AFTRA. Anne: Oh, that's right, excuse me, AFTRA but not SAG. Pilar: Yep. I'm not a member of SAG. Anne: Got it. Pilar: And then I don't see anything in the bylaws that I can't do this. So I just keep doing voiceover. I get a little worried because I think, I don't know if this goes against it, but I checked one time with a friend, and they said, no, no, you can do this. And I was like, okay, great, wonderful. And it was literally the only game in town. So then SAG and AFTRA merged. And I believe, I want to say they merged in 2014 around there, maybe 2012, 2014. Anne: I think it was 2014. Pilar: 2014. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. So one day I got a notice saying you are now a member of SAG-AFTRA and I was like, oh, oh, okay. Anne: So, oh no, let's see. I'm just looking at -- formed on March 30, 2012. Look at me. Does that make sense? Pilar: Yeah, because it says here that it -- that they were suspended in 2014, but yeah, you're right, founded 2012. So that means that -- Anne: On my birthday. Pilar: On your birthday. Oh, well, there you go. Anne: March 30 is my birthday. Yeah. Special occasion. Pilar: Is that Pisces? Anne: Aries. Pilar: Aries. Yeah. Okay. Anne: So sorry. There was a little tangent there, BOSSes. Pilar: I'm a Gemini, by the way. Anne: Okay. Pilar: There you go. Anne: There you go. Pilar: There you go. Gemini and Aries voiceovers. So now in the member of the union, and now I started going, uh-oh, this is now getting tricky. What do I do? And that's when I actually decided, I thought, okay, well, let me see about doing audio books, because I was not getting enough work through the dubbing because it doesn't pay very well. Years pass and I am still doing dubbing. Anne: So it got hard to find work, being a member, right, being a member of both unions -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- where you were living to find more work, and that was in Florida. Correct? So it was hard to find work for you? Pilar: Yes. Now, and so it was hard to find work on camera -- Anne: Got it. Pilar: -- because I wasn't really tapped into the voice over industry per se when I started. I was really more focused on on-camera. In Florida there is no union voiceover work 'cause it is a right to work state. There might be, but I didn't see anyone when I was there. I just, I was always going for what was around. And you know, you, you worked with different studios and there might be, you could do commercials and stuff, but they never talked about union per se. Other people might've had different experiences. Anne: I want to kind of bring this back that this was -- I feel like it was a different time. Pilar: It was. Anne: Before the Internet, right? We're still talking before the advent of online anything, right? Pilar: Right. Anne: Where today we have abilities and opportunities everywhere. Because back in the day, right, when you had a voiceover job, you went to a studio and you did that. It wasn't where you could live, you know, in one state and connect to the studio -- well, until the 2000s, right, and connect to a studio in LA. So there's all sorts of interesting technological advancements that have maybe changed the way the landscape of union, non-union jobs' availability. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Anne: Because now if you were in Florida, you could still, I feel like you'd have opportunities for union jobs because now we have technologies that allow us to connect to studios that are in different states. Pilar: And the pandemic has changed a lot too. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: It's almost like it's brought the world closer because -- Anne: Interesting. Pilar: -- just so much more accessible. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I will tell you something interesting. Voice123 was launched in 2003, but I don't think people knew about that. Anne: I was part of Voice123 when they first, they first started. They were, there was no union jobs posted on there. Pilar: Right. And you didn't go to the Internet to go -- you, you went to a studio to, to get work back then, right? Anne: Back then before, yeah, before all the pay to plays. And before all the online casting sites, exactly. You would go record in a studio. As a matter of fact, when I first started in voiceover, it was not a requirement to have a home studio at all. Pilar: Of course. Anne: That was like a thing that some people did, you know, because they were, you know, tech heads. And as we evolved with a home studio, it's so funny, 'cause it seems like just yesterday, but it wasn't. You know, it's like, wow. Things have really progressed with technology and home studios and, and the landscape of, of how to get work in, in voiceover. And it really ties into this how do you get work if you're in a right to work state? How can you in, and you're part of the union, is there enough work? I've heard that even recently that it's hard to get union work. I mean, where are the opportunities? Pilar: So here's the thing. What I discovered is, which is something that's very -- more people know about it because is basically word of mouth is that you can convert non-union work -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- to union. You can convert it -- Anne: Through a paymaster. Pilar: -- that's not something -- yes, through a paymaster, but it's not something that's necessarily advertised. So, and it all depends on rates. You have to be, you know, you have to be up on your rates. But one of the ways that I found it was through audiobooks. So I was able to, by having the paymaster -- ACX used to have this. They've kind of done away with it now. It's not the same as when I started. Anne: Oh, interesting. Pilar: The pie has been made smaller. Let's put it that way, but you still can do work through ACX. Anne: ACX that's union? Pilar: Yeah. But also get yourself a paymaster. And on certain jobs you can basically ask the client, can we do it this way? And it's possible. It's just, it is a little harder. Anne: From Florida, you move to California. So now you're right in a right to work state to California. And so how does it -- and you're a member of the union. So how does it change when you move to California? Pilar: I actually spoke to members, people who worked at the union multiple times saying to them, I would like to work as a union member, but I can't, not in this state. And they were very aware of this. And they said, yeah, we know. We know that we cannot have competitive pricing in a place like Florida. So they knew exactly what was going on. It was not like news to them because I said, you know, I wanted to be upfront. I said, this was happened to me. I was not a member of the union. I became a member of SAG because of SAG-AFTRA, and I, I have to make a living. So when I came to California, I found that it was a lot easier because the structures were in place much more for union actors. Anne: That makes sense. Pilar: It also helps having the agents that I do, and they are phenomenon. I was just really blessed to get the agents that I have. Anne: I was just going to say, and now with the added agencies that you're able to work with, and the fact that you can work remotely can help now as well to increase the opportunities for union work. Pilar: Yes. Because, Anne, when I lived in Florida, I was working all the time, but I would never have had the opportunity to audition for a McDonald's, for a Geico. Those just were not available to me. So there is something to be said. The union has its pluses and its minuses. But I will say that my decision to come here and work as a, a union actor has probably been the best decision that I ever made. Now, it's not for everyone, but having been on the other side, having been in a right to work state, it makes a huge difference. Anne: Now let's talk about, it's not for everyone. Now, I will say, as someone who is non-union for me, it really is just based on the genres that I get work in, and the genres that I enjoy doing work in. So I would say obviously, if there's anything broadcast, union is definitely a possibility. You do not have to -- if you're a voice talent, you're just coming up in the ranks, you, you do not have to join the union right away. As a matter of fact, I think it behooves you to do some work, figure out where your niche is, and where you're successful at, at obtaining work, and make the decision then, because for me, I do a lot of non-union work. And for me, it, it works. Even though I live in a state that would benefit me if I decided to join the union and really, you know, go for those genres that can pay off. And I would say that the really nice part about it, the advantage from my standpoint, is that you've got somebody that is on your team negotiating for you and making sure that you are getting paid fairly and equitably. Whereas non-union people, that's, a lot of that is, is left to them, to their own devices, to make sure that you're getting paid fairly and equitably, but it's always nice to have somebody on your team fighting for you and having an establishing ground rules. Pilar: I agree. We as actors, we don't always have those negotiating skills, and I'm certainly not as good as I could be. I'm definitely better than I was. And when I was a member of Equity, which I've, I've lapsed it because I'm not doing theater, it really came into play. Because they require that you have minimums, and they're very protective. And all the unions, that is their goal, that is their intent. And so that's something that I really appreciate in a vast sea and all this competition and all these people coming up to you and offering you this and offering you that. And then you find out, oh, whoops, that's a scam. So it really does depend on the genre that you plan to concentrate on. Anne: Sure, yeah. Pilar: And I will tell you this me probably along with a hundred thousand other people have come to LA thinking, oh yeah, I really want to do animation, which I did. And I do. And I've probably done one thing. However, I've done a lot more commercial work, which I wasn't expecting to do because I thought I was going to get to do animation. It's like, that's like the big joke because everyone and their mother wants to do it. And it's -- it's very hard and it's very competitive. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And so I'm constantly improving myself, and I'm constantly working at it. And I'm, you know, I'm doing my homework, like in the other sessions that we've talked about. And, you know, surprisingly for example, I've done some union video games. So that was not something that I was expecting. 'Cause that's much more, they're more dramatic and, and I've been exposed to other kinds of work that I, I had no idea about. I would never have done -- I did a whole campaign last year that I would never have done if I had stayed in Miami. So becoming a union actor just really opens your vistas as to the possibilities. So -- Anne: In specific genres, for sure. Pilar: In -- yes, in specific genres. Obviously in e-learning and narration, that's something that's still, that doesn't conform to the union. So it doesn't make sense to be a union member if you, if that is the bulk of your work. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: So, you know, it, it depends on location and it depends on, on the kind of work that you want to do. I think that the decision to become a union actor is really up to the individual. It's not something that has to be done in a hurry or like, like FOMO, fear of missing out. Anne: I agree. Pilar: It's something that has to be done strategically and -- Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: -- and when you're comfortable, because it will come with its ups and downs. This took me a period of -- it was a very long time. This isn't just something that just happened and I decided, I mean, it was over a very long period of time that I made the decision. And so when you're comfortable, I think that that's when it's the right time to really look at it, because I will say this. It has been amazing the past two and a half years to be part of SAG-AFTRA, really and truly, and I feel so blessed. However, that said, I came into that. I grew into that moment. It wasn't something that I would just say, oh yeah, join the union or, or no, don't join the union. Anne: Exactly. Because you were already a part of it. So you found the ways to make it really work to your advantage I think as well. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I think if you are just a voice talent, and you're living in a right to work state, or you're doing your genres that you're doing the majority of your work and don't necessarily -- they're not necessarily broadcast, you have some time to grow into it or see if it's something that you might want to get involved with. I think that there's definitely some pluses and there's definitely some things that you've got to think about. I know that you do get health benefits, but I think that that's been a, I'm going to say some negotiations happening there, or some changes in the contract in the last couple of years that have not been positive. Pilar: But I will say this, that was one of the main reasons that I wanted to come here, and then they switched it and then they raised the levels. But coming from somebody who was paying over like $1,300 a month for insurance back in Miami -- Anne: For insurance, health insurance. Pilar: Yeah. To basically paying a quarter of that per every three months is kind of amazing. So, you know, one of the things that I learned from other union actors is that they make sure, and they get that out of the way first from the very beginning. So it's like, I'm constantly auditioning. Anne: So in talking about health benefits, you do have to hit a minimum in order to be eligible for those, correct? Pilar: Yes, you do. And that's what went up a couple of years ago. Anne: Right. Pilar: However, once you hit that minimum, it's amazing. And their health package is like nothing I've ever had. And I had really good health benefits, I thought, in Miami, these are better. They also have some great, great-- the SAG-AFTRA foundation has some amazing webinars and they're constantly teaching. And also for older actors, for dancers, they're constantly trying to get the message across of all the other parts of the, of the performing arts industries, which I think is so helpful. Because, you know, let's say you're a dancer and you are just maybe not wanting to work anymore or you can't work anymore. And so they have all sorts of webinars and workshops where you can learn about these things. And so there are some great benefits to SAG-AFTRA, and again, I, I don't regret in the least having done it. It was just a place where I had to get to it. I had to grow into it. Anne: Absolutely. And BOSSes out there again, it's, it's a personal decision. My career based on genres that aren't necessarily helped by, uh, being a union member. I am able to work and support myself. I think that with healthcare, you know, that is something that you have to take care of yourself that isn't taken care of by SAG-AFTRA. But again, with SAG-AFTRA you have to hit a certain amount of money that you're making in order to be eligible to utilize that benefit. So great conversation, Pilar. I think that it's really great that we went through the of it because I just vaguely remember, God, now I know I'm kind of getting old in this industry, that I vaguely remember I was in it before the merger. And you know, how things happen and how things have evolved with how we get work, and how we can now with technology, there's all other avenues to get work for non-union people in terms of with the technologies and casting sites and pay to plays. And as well as how the union, I think, you know, the union is struggling a little bit to keep up with the advances in technology. And that's just any, I think, organization like that has a lot of ground to cover. And I think that that might be one improvement. I've heard people talk about that hopefully the union will get more with the times a little bit. And there was, I think, what was it, a couple of years ago, there were some people going on strike regarding the video games, and the union wants to make sure that their members are protected. So -- Pilar: Yeah, but their heart's in the right place. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: They're definitely on the right track. Anne: I agree. I absolutely agree. So BOSSes, lots to think about. We covered a lot of ground. Pilar, I totally appreciate your wisdom and your experience with all this, because it's really, really helped me to see how it's evolved over the years and benefits and things that we might want to consider as we continue our journeys in our voiceover careers. So thanks so much for that. Pilar: No, absolutely. Thank you. Anne: Okay, guys, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our new sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to use your voice, make an immediate difference and give back to those communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org and a big, big shout-out to other sponsor, ipDTL, you too can network and communicate like a BOSS like Pilar and I do every week. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

We discuss the 1977 documentary Pumping Iron following the epic and hilarious lives of the contestant of the 1975 Mr. Olympia competition in South Africa. Arnold Schwartzenegger vs. Lou Ferrigno. Conan vs. The Hulk. Nuff said. 

Have we lost the ability to have conversations with folks on “the other side”? Kamy Akhavan is debunking how to have polarizing discussions that are actually productive. Making connections with people from opposing views is hard to do but it's very powerful when we do get through to each other.   With 20 years of experience bridging divides, Kamy's work has helped people fight polarization, master essential skills for the modern workplace, and start and grow successful nonprofit organizations.    3 Steps to Bridging the conversation Gap 1. Be curious and listen to the other side 2. Ask pointed clarifying questions to learn more and build trust 3. Bring the heat down and find the larger common ground, what Kamy calls Superordination.     About Kamy   Kamy Akhavan, former CEO of ProCon.org, the nation's leading source of nonpartisan research on controversial issues, now leads the Center for the Political Future (CPF) at the University of Southern California.With more than 20 years of experience in bridging divides at national levels, Kamy's work has served more than 200 million people, including students at more than 12,000 schools in all 50 states and 100 countries. Kamy writes and speaks on numerous topics including the origins of and solutions to political polarization, improving interpersonal communication, the awesome power of debate, nonprofit leadership, digital marketing, civics education, and how to teach controversial issues.     Rough Transcript [00:00:00] Today on the whole well podcast, I am [00:00:27] incredibly excited to invite Kami Ahkavan. the former CEO of procon.org, a leading source of nonpartisan research on controversial issues that I'm a boy lot to get into there. And currently he is the executive director, executive director of the center for the political future at university of Southern California. [00:00:51] Kamy. It's great to see you at least over zoom. [00:00:55] Yeah, that's right. Well, great to see you too, George. It's been a while. I'm a big fan of your company and a [00:01:01] view, so it's a [00:01:02] Oh, thank you. Well, I mean, I just, I have to start [00:01:06] with I know that a few years ago, I believe you left as the CEO of pro con maybe we can just sort of start there. Inspired that transition. Cause it wasn't at all a politically heated moment at all three years ago because I blacked out what happened. [00:01:23] I started at ProCon in 2004. I was hired as a managing editor and then became president and then became CEO. the [00:01:31] reason that I fell in love with that organization is because it was the only one in the country that was focused on presenting extensive research on both sides of [00:01:40] controversial issues and doing it in a [00:01:42] very accessible way. [00:01:44] This is not for policy wanks or super motivated politicos. This is for soccer moms and for people like my, my neighbors and my parents and my, my siblings that I wanted everybody in the country to be able to understand both sides of controversial issues so they can make their own informed judgment and make their own informed opinions on these very tough issues. [00:02:11] Most people didn't have the time. They didn't have the wherewithal and they frankly didn't have the balanced media diet that would give them access to all those perspectives. So when I leaned into that organization and find out that it wasn't just me, who wanted to have both sides represented really well and understand what all the viewpoints were on issues like, should we legalize marijuana? [00:02:37] Should the death penalty remain legal? Should abortion be legal? Should you spank your children? Should felons be allowed to vote? Should we put up a border wall? All these controversies, it turned out that tens and tens of millions of people also cared a lot. We ended up reaching an audience of over 300 million people over the course of my 14 years there. [00:02:58] But to answer your question, 14 years is a long time to be doing anything. And after a while, I just started looking for the eggs. Over the course of my time at con I had worked with over 13,000 schools in all 50 states and nearly a hundred different countries. One of those schools was USC university of Southern California and at one of our events, and this is a true story. [00:03:23] We were hosting. Remember Anthony Scaramucci, the mooch was going to go on stage with, with a guy named Mike Murphy, who was. The campaign manager for Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush and John McCain and Arnold Schwartzenegger big deal. Republican guys. They went on stage and then the current executive director said, Hey, comedy, you want my job? [00:03:46] I'm going to be moving. And I said, well, I'm super interested because I'm 14 years in a pro con. What, tell me more. And then she told me more. I ended up applying, ended up getting the position and it's been three years since. So even though I'm a two time UCLA graduate, I'm a proud Bruin. I am now a Brogan Brogan because I can now put up my two fingers and say fight on because USC pays my bills. [00:04:14] It's a fabulous university. I've always had great respect for USC as well as for UCLA, my, my Alma mater. So happy to be here at USC and pro-con meanwhile, lives on and has since been acquired by encyclopedia Britannica and they run it. That was part of the exit strategy. Was to make sure that it lived on. [00:04:34] So they great content is still widely available to millions of millions of people. I couldn't be more proud of that operation and what it has done. And we can talk a little bit more about the impact that it has made. I know impact is your, is your currency. And, and I'm very proud of that. And an eager to talk about as well. [00:04:54] What's going on here at USC and in all the side [00:04:57] projects that I'm involved in and you're involved [00:04:59] in. [00:05:00] It's so interesting because you go from this really immersive. You know, 300 million type level impressions and over a decade of work, which is certainly I would, classify as a mile-wide and that's just the nature of a mile wide reaching many, many at a very top level to now it's looking like you're going a mile deep, a mile deep with the ability to craft and look at an educational experience in a very fraught, political time full of, as you mentioned , media, bubbles media, bubbles that are doing the work of getting and keeping attention. [00:05:40] I want to actually just pull back though to that moment. You said I started, you know, 14 years are [00:05:46] people listening and I'm also kind of, we had a recently Greg Baldwin on who is announced that he is moving on from volunteer mattress. a lot of I think, changing, changing of the guard, [00:05:58] like. What is that first initial moment. [00:06:00] And then from that moment of , it's time, , what about that [00:06:05] gives you that like, all right, now I need to put [00:06:08] this in place. And what is putting this in place? Look like. [00:06:12] Yeah, it's, it's a profound question and a lot of ways, because it has so much to do with the sense of purpose in life in general. So for me, my purpose professionally and personally had been as a bridge builder. I was bringing people together sometimes against their will on issues so that they can discover that the [00:06:36] people that they thought [00:06:37] were opposite from them, that they considered enemies, not just opponents, but enemies, but those people were actually quite rational and that those people got to their viewpoints based on. [00:06:49] Reasons and education and moral guidance and family values and things that were deeply, deeply reasonable, and they were not caricature. So for liberals they might read or watch Tucker Carlson and think, oh, conservatives, they don't know anything. Or conservatives might watch Rachel Maddow and think, ah, she's such an extremist. [00:07:20] The reality is that most of us are somewhere in the middle and those viewpoints were not being represented because as you know, for example, 90% of tweets come from 20% of its users. The people who'd speak. The loudest are the ones who are hurt. And most of the time, most of us are kind of in the middle. [00:07:43] are not extremely. So to answer your question about the, that moment. For me, the moment came when I realized that my personal and professional mission of bridging people, I had been doing it digitally, virtually reaching large audiences. But when I would have conversations offline with friends or family or colleagues, sometimes those conversations got heated. [00:08:08] And sometimes those conversations went sideways and got ugly. And I thought that's, I'm the master of bringing people together and getting people to recognize their common humanity and recognize the merit in each other's viewpoints. And yet I'm not able to do it on an interpersonal basis. Why is that? [00:08:28] And there was a new challenge. I thought this is a different kinds of challenge. It's very different. When you're reading information online, where you can be vulnerable, someone is not confronting. You are allowing yourself to be open and allowing yourself to intake new information and be considerate in a heated exchange that is gone. [00:08:52] And the defensiveness goes up dramatically. The stakes go up and it becomes more of a context. And in those situations, the person wants to win. They don't want to listen. And I thought this is a great area for me to focus on. If I really care about bridging divides, I need to know how to do this interpersonally. [00:09:15] And so that became my focus. As I said, I need to challenge myself for the next thing and take what I can do virtually and bring it to a interpersonal level. And that was a real challenge. Learning how to disagree better. Is difficult learning how to navigate fraught conversations is a super challenge. [00:09:37] And it's something that we all face. If an employee is doing a bad job, how do you tell them in a way that won't make them defensive? How do you tell them in a way that will make them think, thank you for telling me I'm so glad that I have this feedback. It's really difficult. Or if you're having an argument with someone about the merits of the corporate tax rate, should, is it too high or too low? [00:10:00] How can you get a conversation like that to not go off the rails where suddenly you're insulting each other? That's what I've been focused on. And I think I learned a lot in that process over the last few years, so much so to where I can now travel the country and talk about how my experiences in bridging divides online now matches my experiences bridging divides in small group and one-on-one conversations. [00:10:29] So that we can bring those best tactics and strategies to bear in our workplaces, in our schools [00:10:36] and in our dinner tables. [00:10:39] so it sounds like you got wooed by A new problem and challenge that you saw in your [00:10:45] backyard, and you realize that it is part and parcel with the larger goal that you seem to just have adopted as there needs to be a bridge here. This is ridiculous. Most of us are in the middle. How do, how do we talk to each other about very important issues in a country? [00:11:00] We all, you know, pay taxes and pledge to. [00:11:04] A hundred percent or that I haven't told you this story, but let me just tell you what motivates me. I said it's personal. So I was born in the backseat of a taxi cab, Ted Harani, Ron. I moved to south Louisiana when I was one year old. I [00:11:17] was an who grew up among sash reason tippy-toes and Columbias and arsenals [00:11:23] good Cajun names like that. [00:11:24] I stood out like a sword bound with a name like [00:11:27] Acabar and I had to constantly build these bridges so that my agent friends could understand what Iranian culture was about and vice versa. Then I ended up moving to Southern California where my neighbors names were Coya [00:11:43] a lot of Japanese people in the Torrance community where I lived, but also Gonzalez and Lopez and a lot of Hispanic names. So again, bridging divides, I had a Cajun accent. And I'm an active on, and I have to represent all these cultures. I lived in twenty-five homes. By the time I was 20 years old, constantly building bridges. [00:12:02] That's something that I had to become good at as a, as a human being, just to exist and to recognize that all these different cultures were so interesting. And they have so much to offer. And I had so much to learn and I wanted those cultures to feel the same way about the cultures that I had come from and the kinds of foods and music and language and experiences that I had to share. [00:12:27] So it became a compulsion of curiosity and curiosity to me is the most underrated of all motivations. It is the thing that will drive empathy that will drive respect, and that will drive learning drive. Open-mindedness I remember asking a prominent rabbit. Of all the things in the world, which characteristic do you value the most? [00:12:49] And he said, Kami, it's not love. It's not love. It's not passion. What do you mean? It's not passion. And he went on to name all the things that's not. And then he said curiosity. And I said, exactly, it's curiosity. So all that's to say that that's what motivated me personally, to want to build these bridges is this intense curiosity from my upbringing of bridging divides and seeing the value that it can bring for inner peace and for happiness and for life satisfaction to feel [00:13:22] like you're constantly learning from other. [00:13:24] It makes a lot of sense now, and also why you've probably excelled at doing this because you have the outsiders view, you have this outsider point of view, which is a tremendous advantage, especially when you're talking about the types of themes that ProCon did. And now you are now training people to talk about. [00:13:43] Maybe we can just dive right into this and let me frame this for people that are listening. There are executives, fundraisers, marketers. There are people that are working at nonprofits that are, needing to deal with diverse stakeholders. They are, let's say sitting in front of a donor that may not even match their political ticket and they're talking. [00:14:05] And inevitably there's a statement that is made that you're like, Ooh, wait a minute. You know, maybe it's like, I can't believe they're pushing CRT at my preschool. And you're like, oh boy, here we go. And. [00:14:16] Can you help me? What is the Kamy playbook for looking at a one-to-one conversation where we got identity that need to win and all of the baggage that humans bring in that moment? [00:14:28] how do you sort of step back and frame a conversation? You know, like somebody's listening right now. You know, there's going to be a couple of hundred people listening to someone's about to walk into that conversation. What are the three things or items that you, you pulled together for them? [00:14:42] Okay, so number one is [00:14:43] listen, and let me explain what I mean by [00:14:46] that. When we surveyed our audience at pro con and asked how many of you changed your mind on an issue based on [00:14:52] what you read? I thought if we got [00:14:55] 5% of people to change their mind, [00:14:57] Home run. We got to 36%. The first time we [00:15:01] did the survey and then I couldn't believe the numbers. [00:15:04] So we did it again a year later, it got to 40%. [00:15:07] So how do you do that? How do you change? 40% of people's minds on very controversial issues with information. And I learned about listening, the reason why we changed minds, and that was not our goal. By the way, our goal was to inform the reason we changed minds is because if someone came to the website with a very strong view on let's say the death penalty, they would see their view represented so well better than they could ever express it, that are articulated better sources, better formatted, better explained all of it. [00:15:42] They felt hurt. That's exactly what I think. Absolutely what I think then the defense went. As soon as the defense goes down, the receptivity to new ideas is open and staring them right on that page. On the other side of the page was the other side of the argument. Here's all the reasons against the death penalty. [00:16:02] And perhaps for the first time, they were able to see real compelling arguments that were very well sourced, very well articulated, not caricature lovers. And they thought, wow, I never thought of it that way. And the while I never thought of it that way moments when those happen, those are opportunities for change. [00:16:23] And those opportunities for change cannot happen without first listening. This is a tool that we know from the playbook of peace negotiators, from marriage counselors, from a conflict resolution experts at all level. Step number one in those fraught moments is listen. And what I mean by listening is you have to ask clarifying questions. [00:16:50] If you are listening for words versus meaning. So if someone says a word and then that word somehow triggers, you think, oh my gosh, they just use that word that makes me upset. What is their meaning? So ask clarifying questions. What did you mean when you said X? How did you get to that belief? You seem to have very strong views on this issue. [00:17:15] Where did those views come from? How long have you had those views? You ask clarifying questions. The reason you ask clarifying questions is sometimes in the heat of a moment, the heat is coming from the amygdala part of our brains. That is the reptile part of our brains that says fight, flee or freeze. [00:17:33] But the prefrontal cortex, that's where our reason comes from. That's where we're able to say what's where our empathy comes from. That's where we're able to say, oh, that's a good point. I hadn't considered that. I never thought of it. That way. What we need to do is ask is listen. So we listen for, listen with curiosity, listen for meaning, not just listen for words, but meaning if we don't understand the meaning, ask clarifying questions so that we can understand meeting and to so that we can. [00:18:02] Get our brain out of the hypothalamus and into that prefrontal cortex. So we can go towards our second thoughts. We want to go from fast thinking instinct knee-jerk to slow thinking, slow things down and get to that second or third or fourth thought. So that's how you can reduce the heat in the conversation. [00:18:23] So I'd say if you go into a conversation with the intent to listen with curiosity, with the intent to ask clarifying questions, when you get triggered or where you hear, oh my gosh, they just said CRT and the preschool. This is ridiculous. If we hear that ask clarifying questions. Oh, well, why do you think that they're teaching CRT in the classroom? [00:18:44] You feel very strongly about CRT. Where did that view come from? What is it about CRT that you feel like you want to understand better and, and that gets you and the person you're talking to. On a much different level of a conversation where it's not emotion versus emotion. It is listening to understand it's not a battle. [00:19:04] It is a tool for comprehension. So I'd say those two things listening and asking clarifying questions are number one and number two. And I'll see a third thing which I call super ordination. And that means when there is conflict, you hear people say, oh, try to find common grounds. So finding common ground is sometimes like trying to find a unicorn, you know, good luck. [00:19:28] It's not going to be there, but there is something called super ordination, which is recognizing that you already have common ground. So for instance, I'm in LA and you've got offices in New York. I might like the Dodgers. [00:19:42] You might like the Yankees, but Hey, we both like baseball. That's super [00:19:45] ordination [00:19:47] or. [00:19:47] quick edit here. Let's go Mets just to that all up. Right, right then and there. [00:19:53] Let's go, man. It's fair enough. We'll then if you, like, let's say we both like baseball, you're med sundowners, but we both like baseball and then we meet someone else who likes football and they don't care about baseball. And we say, oh, well we all like sports. That's super ordinating. We have expanded our in-group. [00:20:10] So now there's no one on the outside of our circle, everyone's on the inside of our [00:20:14] circle. And then let's say we find someone who does not give a care about sports. They don't care, but they love politics and say, oh, we've now expanded our in group to say you love competition. We all love competition. [00:20:26] That's what super ordination is. So if we come into a conversation ready to listen and ask clarifying questions and think about the fact that we're not looking to find common ground, that we already have common ground. It's just a matter of thinking about what common ground we share. Then suddenly the stakes get a lot lower. [00:20:45] We are not, the other person is not the enemy. The other person may be our opponents. Right. And in a debate or discussion, but that doesn't make them an enemy. It's not I'm right. You're evil. It's I'm right. And you're wrong. And that's okay. It's okay to disagree. The trick is to disagree [00:21:01] better. [00:21:02] It's really cool to hear the data that you just talked about in terms of the percent of your audience when you survey them, that actually sort of had their minds changed. And I think that's a loaded term. And I think just to dig into it, it would be your mind opened or [00:21:17] shifted. I think of it. I never think of any issue as a binary. [00:21:23] It is always on a scale. And so what I imagined and what I hear, and maybe you can clarify is that change their mind actually means you moved one tick away from where you were before and a less extreme center center, maybe mindset of like, ah, I still firmly believe this, but maybe minus one on this scale between extreme. [00:21:44] Your understanding is exactly right. It doesn't mean we shifted our opinion fully from from one extreme to the other extreme. [00:21:52] It's just that it, it changed somehow our [00:21:55] viewpoint changed. We learned something [00:21:57] and that [00:21:58] has so much value in a person's life. Because if we thought the same thing we thought when we were [00:22:04] five years old, we'd be idiots, right? [00:22:07] So our life is a constant process of learning and adapting and changing. And we need to recognize that this is a normal human behavior, and we should not be scared to. This is something we should strive for. Of course you should change when you have new information to adjust to, then you pivot your thinking. [00:22:27] And right now it seems like a lot of people are very bent on maintaining their exact viewpoint that they've had for years. Well, I've always thought this way. Well, why have you always thought this way? Have you considered other views? Have you really read other views? Have you discussed these other views? [00:22:43] And if you have, then it's very likely that you will shift your thinking, which is of [00:22:49] course fair and reasonable. Why not? [00:22:51] I want to come back to [00:22:52] this, this approach because it's, you know, if you take one thing away from hopefully listening to this episode and it really hopefully is that, that approach, because it impacts the way you're going to have to do the actual work necessary to achieve what your larger vision is at the individual level. [00:23:09] You mentioned peace and peace talks in that strategy. And you obviously are calling that up because it is a, a fundamental in hostage negotiations and intense conversations and the following where you just said it, you listen. And then also in order to sort of move from that a type one to type two, thinking that like fast versus slow thinking to get out of that fear state, it is about restating their. [00:23:38] So, what I'm hearing is you're frustrated about CRT in the classroom because you're afraid that it will make them hate America is, do I have that? Right? And what you're looking for is that's right. Not you're right, but that's right. You hear me? You want to have that, [00:23:53] that echo, cause you're out of sync, right? [00:23:55] Like you're talking about a high state, low [00:23:57] state, you're talking about two high states talking to each other. You're out of rhythm. And so by getting into that rhythm of conversation, it seems like that's what you're getting people to do between the listen, ask clarifying questions and then identify The super ordination. [00:24:14] Meaning the ground that is around the ground. We currently are fighting on we're living in. [00:24:19] You said it so well, George, I think that's exactly right. The fact that we shift our focus from the person to the issue, [00:24:29] then the issue becomes something that we can beat up. [00:24:33] You know, we can have different views of the [00:24:35] issue without any animosity towards the [00:24:38] person. I'd say you, when listening has such a profound impact on the person who feels hurt the chemical that's released in the brain, when a person feels hurt is the same chemical that's released in the brain. [00:24:51] When a person feels loved, it is profound to feel hurt. And that's something that we don't do often enough, but as a superpower, because when a person feels heard, that's when their trust in you goes up. And when you have a person's trust, you have a certain power. And with that power, you can use it to then influence their thinking on on an issue in the way that you want. [00:25:17] But you can't gain that power. You can't gain that trust without first listening. So people who try to just shout their opinions over other people, that's never going to work. Right? So in some cases where activists feel like the best thing they can do is tell the other person you are so wrong and here's the facts. [00:25:37] Let me just correct. You immediately they'll find that that strategy doesn't work and they can sometimes be frustrated with that and think, gosh, that other side, they're a bunch of idiots. They just don't get it. Well, help them get it, listen to their views, gain their trust, gain that power. Then use that power to help influence their thinking in the way [00:25:57] that you would like. But it has to start with [00:26:00] listening. [00:26:00] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And you know, that's just, it's helpful. And it's it's simplicity is misleading because when you're actually in that moment to pay attention to where you need a conversation to go while also ignoring the fact that you might be pissed off because you have as well firmly held beliefs that align with your identity and they are being. So you have to do two things at once. Turn down that response and play toward this end goal, which is really about, you know, not, you use the word influence, which is exactly [00:26:32] right, but the connotation is toward this larger view of us getting along. So we can actually solve [00:26:38] these things instead of throwing up walls. I want to ask a little bit more and challenge you on that statement of most of us are somewhere in the middle. I believe that you believe that. Can you help me believe that? [00:26:55] there was a study that was done about polarization and it was called more in [00:27:01] common. And what this study found is that approximately 65% of the survey respondents considered themselves [00:27:08] part of the exhausted majority. And that is the group of people who felt that we can ensure would [00:27:16] try to get along. [00:27:18] And many of us believe that our country is hopelessly divided, that we're never going to get along. And that we're, we're breaking apart at the seams. Democracy is in peril. And that we're, we are in a state of civil war. Only our war is being fought with keyboards and pens versus guns and knives. [00:27:41] Right. So for. That is the perception of the state of our division by many, and yet survey after survey, after survey, including the one I referenced says, most people don't feel that way in their hearts. They don't, they don't actually have animosity towards their neighbors or their coworkers. There's this backdrop in our country of hyper-partisanship. [00:28:06] And we certainly see that in our elected offices, and that comes from a lot of systemic reasons that we can get into. But the reality is that most of us don't Harbor those same extremist views. Most of us are not in the 10% margin on either side of these partisan issues. And the reality is most of us have not really changed our views over the decades on these controversial issues. [00:28:30] It's not that we're drawing more to the polls. What's happening is that our identities are drawing more to our political affiliations. So that means that our political identity is becoming more of a meta identity. And so that means if I hold a certain view on abortion, then that means that you can guess which political party I belong to. [00:28:53] If you have a certain view on immigration, you can guess what political party that person identifies with. So somehow that party identification becomes a very strong predictor of where a person's ideologies are across a wide spectrum of issues, identity equals politics. That means if I challenge your view on abortion, I am challenging you as a person. [00:29:18] And if I challenge your view on immigration, I'm challenging you as a, as a person. And those kinds of that's why those attacks feel very personal. It didn't use to be that way. It used to be, there was such a thing as a liberal Republican, or a conservative Democrat, where there was this, the south was all democratic. [00:29:36] There were Dixiecrats, right? So there were conservatives in the south, but now conserves in the south are dumb, predominantly Republican. There's very few liberal Republicans, very few conservative Democrats. It's just degrees of, are you moderate or progressive Democrat? Are you a tea party far right. [00:29:57] Republican, or you're more of a moderate Republican. That's the big change that's happening in our society is identity. Politics have become the way that we have self-organized and that is what makes it to where our. Conversations on issues can take that quick turn because we feel that our identities are being challenged and no one wants to have their individual identity challenged or threatened. [00:30:23] And that's where, that's where we are. So our, have we become more extreme now? No, but it's, our identities have become more connected to our political identities and that's why it feels like we're more [00:30:35] extreme. [00:30:36] It's so interesting because the identity is really what we're talking about and someone's ego and the way they see themselves. And they define themselves by the beliefs they currently have at this minute in the moment. And they hold them fervently because they're terrified of what it means, if not, but however, in terms of defining themselves, I'd be hard pressed to say, if you look through bio, after bio, after bio, on LinkedIn, on Twitter, on you name the social media platform, you know, for me, , I'm a dad. [00:31:10] I care about social impact tech. I make beer. I don't put, I vote for this party or that part. I don't put my party affiliation at the top of it. So it's this weird. Kind of like dormant monster that is like unspoken, but everyone [00:31:28] kind of knows it based on trigger words that are fired off [00:31:31] in a conversation. [00:31:32] So I'm not publicly identifying others don't seem to [00:31:36] be, but yet we have this [00:31:38] feeling that we're, and here's a sort of [00:31:41] overused quote, more divided than [00:31:43] ever. And so how do you know, how do you really [00:31:46] respond to the, the feeling that we're more divided than ever? Is that what percent of that [00:31:51] is real? [00:31:52] if you measure, well, first, those are great points and I love the way that you think about this. You have such a clear way of expressing your views. I'm envious of it. The. If you measure how divided we are based on party polarization. So that means the number of times that one, a member of a political party will co-sponsor the legislation from another, from the opposing party that is becoming increasingly rare. [00:32:21] In fact, it is surpassed the level of partisanship in the, from the period immediately following the civil war. We're past that. So if you measure how divided we are based on party polarization, we are more divided than we've been. However, if you measure it based on our actual ideologies and viewpoints, those viewpoints have not really changed across across our society. [00:32:48] They're pretty widely and uniformly distributed. So it's not that we have become more extreme it's that we perceive each other as more extreme. I gave you another example. In the 1950s, there was a survey done asking parents, if you'd be upset, if your son or daughter married someone of the opposing political party. [00:33:05] And in 1950, nobody cared. It was around three to 4% would be upset if their son or daughter married someone of the opposite party flash forward to 2010, just 10 years ago. Or so that number was close to 46. Parents would be upset if their son or daughter married some of the opposing political parties. [00:33:20] So it's really about that. The perception what's, the politics is introduced into the equation. Then suddenly the defensiveness goes up the identification around a party affiliation increases, and the perception of the other as an enemy versus an opponent, all of that stuff kicks in. You called it a hidden monster. [00:33:40] I think that's right. That quickly comes to the forefront because we feel. We know that we've seen a few studies that said, what percentage of, of Americans consider the opposing party as a threat to the nation's well-being it's over a third of Democrats and Republicans who perceive the other side as a threat to the nation's well being, and you don't invite a threat over for barbecue, you know, to come and have a play date with your kids, right? [00:34:08] It's a threat is not someone you want to hire in your company. We have all of these mechanisms to, to defend ourselves against the threats, not to to make nice with them. So that's, to me, the, the overarching phenomenon that's happening and social media is fueling a lot of it. So when you are posting on your LinkedIn or Twitter about a tech events or about an upcoming podcast, or about things that are nonpolitical. [00:34:37] That's all great. It, as soon as certain words come into the equation or certain issues coming to the fore, then the potential for things to go off, the rail increases exponentially. And we have to be really, really careful and mindful about how we're communicating to one, make sure we're not triggering other people unintentionally. [00:34:56] Right. So that our meaning does not get distorted. But also, so we don't get in trouble. No one wants the, the firefight, the food fight. That's going to follow from some, someone being upset about what we said politically. So the additive. Parents taught us and our parents, parents thought is always avoid discussions around a politics and religion. [00:35:18] It's it seems like very good advice because those discussions can get too heated and ugly too quickly. But at the same time, we have the luxury of living in a democracy, in a Republic form of democracy. And that means our system is designed for it to be participatory. We have to discuss issues. That's part of the deal here. [00:35:41] And if we don't like that as part of the deal, then we don't like a fundamental aspect of being American. It requires per informed citizenry and participation. So on the one hand, we have to discuss politics and issues. And on the other hand, we are punished when we do, because those conversations are so fraught and go off the rails. [00:36:01] So that's why we are kind of stuck in these uncomfortable situations. And it's not just stuck in our, in our work lives. Or professional lives. We're stuck all the time. We are feel like we have to walk on eggshells so frequently. I can't tell you how many studies I've seen, where people are afraid to say what they actually think on issues, unless they're with people of their same ideological bent, then they are like, ah, let me tell you what I really think about the outcome of the 2016 election. [00:36:30] This is what I really think about Trump or Clinton is literally what I think about, about Trump or Biden. And that's when they can relax and let loose. So our communities are becoming increasingly homogenous because no one wants to live with the discomfort and the feeling like my, my neighbors or my conversations are going to go off the rails. [00:36:48] It's why people are going to companies that reflect their values and their ideologies, because they don't want to be in workplaces. That will make them feel like an other or like they can't say what's truly on their mind. So are, we're becoming more homogenous in our social media circles and in. Our offline communities because of this, this feeling that we have, that we can't say what we think and the antidote to all of that. [00:37:17] And the solution really for our democracy is you have to be courageous. We have to have conversations knowing that sometimes they can be awkward and uncomfortable, but that's where we learn. And that's where we can make progress. We have to be bridge builders, or we threaten a few things when we threaten our own knowledge and our own self-exploration and our own capacity to learn and grow as human beings. [00:37:40] But we also endanger our capacity to function as a country because it is it's oxygen is participation. So if we don't participate and engage in these issues, then we are starving our system of what is essential to it. So that's why I think the best solution. Is this intention that I will be unafraid. [00:38:01] I'm going to accept that there's bees, there will be some conversations that don't go the way I want, but damn it. I'm going to try, I'm going to try to make these work. I'm going to try to listen with curiosity. I'm going to try to learn from people with whom I probably disagree on a handful of issues, but I probably do agree on the vast majority of other topics we can discuss. [00:38:23] And we shouldn't let that small fraction of things. We disagree on the finest and instead let the vast majority of things that we do agree on. Let that define [00:38:33] us. [00:38:33] I mean, I love the sentiment of having the bravery to have those courageous conversations. I also firmly agree that you are hurting your understanding of an issue to the detriment of the outcome you want actually, by not allowing that dialogue and not allowing your own mind to move a point toward the center for talking about that spectrum. [00:38:53] Can you comment though, because there is a cost to. Um, When you look at cancel culture and its rise, there is a real threat. This is no longer an imagined, oh, I'll be ostracized. There is a real threat that a [00:39:09] very vocal minority to your point, only about 20% of Twitter is actually making the comments and grabbing the pitchforks. But there's a real threat to, to voicing an opinion that strays from the extreme party line so much so that you would lose your job. Where's the upside there. We're having that conversation. [00:39:32] It is a very difficult [00:39:34] question to answer. And I think most people will say, forget it. It's not worth it. There's a [00:39:38] risk. So I'm just going to keep my mouth shut. I don't want to bring up politics in this conversation. I can tell things are going to get ugly fast. Most people are, are unwilling to take those risks, but I'll tell you what is the [00:39:51] heavy downside of not having those courageous conversations [00:39:55] is we will continue to divide further and further and further. [00:40:00] We will continue to deprive ourselves of the ability to grow as individuals, and we can continue to starve our system of the oxygen. It needs to function, and we will lose some of the greatness and the great value of America. What are the stories? I didn't tell you. George is in 1979, after the Iranian revolution, my parents moved back to Iran with me as a young boy, and we thought we're going to rebuild this country help rebuild it. [00:40:25] Now that the dictator has gone. And within a few months, the Ayatollah came back, the religious clerics took over. They started executing the revolutionaries and then the Iraqi under Saddam Hussein started attacking. We went from rebuilding the country to hiding in the basement because there's bombs dropping planes, dropping bombs on the city and turning off all the lights at night and living in terror that we're all going to die. [00:40:54] That was the feeling. So we said, we have to get out of here. What have we done? We were living in the United States. And so we moved to Turkey and thought let's apply to go back to the United States through Turkey and. The U S embassy said, no, you left. And that's, that's on you. We president switched from Carter to Reagan and we weren't allowed to move back. [00:41:15] So we've moved to Bulgaria and said, let's try this again. Let's try to get back in the U S same thing. Couldn't get in move to France. Same thing. Couldn't get back in through the U S embassy. We thought, gosh, we can't move back to Iran. We can't move back to the U S I guess we're going to live in Turkey. [00:41:31] So we ended up going back to Turkey, tried one last time to get in. And then that time it worked, we got back into the U S and the reason why, and this is the point of my story here is because of one man, Mr. Jack Tolson in Lafayette, Louisiana, who was my dad's boss as an architect, who's spent bunch of his own money to hire an immigration attorney to help us get back in the country. [00:41:54] And Mr. Tolson, I knew we were good people. He knew that we belonged in America. And I think about America as people like Jack Tolson, I think about, I do not take that American dream for granted. I know what it represents for the, for much of the world and its freedoms and its aspirations for economic success. [00:42:17] And anybody can make it in all those ideals that so many people in this country have achieved and lived so many have nots, of course, but so many have in a way that is unique to this country. So when I think about conflict and courage and not will be willing to have these conversations and what's at stake, I think about. [00:42:36] The how precious this system of government is and how, if we do not have those conversations, we do this system to failure. So we have to have the courage, not just for ourselves and our growth, not just for our country and for its success, but also for what it represents for the rest of the world. We lead as I believe president Biden once said not by the example of our power, but by the power of our [00:43:07] example. [00:43:07] hi. I just really identify with the, you know, talking about, I imagine the H1B process , I look at my own, like I've succeeded three times. I'm very grateful in getting securing H1B at, at expense for amazing individuals. And I failed one time and it, it really kills me that there's a talented individual out there that I just, you know, I, I couldn't do it. [00:43:30] And it. Um, Quite a bit um, while I was happy as I am on that side and getting back to putting in context, like the courage, you know, you're just trying to say , you know, by the way, there are larger things that you make an, a mistake in a tweet. But I, I will say, , I understand that sort of like the context is relevant to each person, right? [00:43:49] So, you know, what is stressful for me is different than for someone else. And I think, you know, especially for, for leaders listening there, there are a few things in play. One is that sort of risk of a miscommunication and a misunderstanding. And there's no trial by jury. There's no fair and equal thought. [00:44:09] There is a fire that burns insatiably hot and will take down your organization. And that's a, that's a legitimate fear. On top of it, I feel like there's also this like easy level. Given right when you just sort of like play into the game of extremism, there's an easy level lever that media companies use that by the way, non-profits raised quite a bit of money on and the lever goes as follows, take a dash of anger, mix it in with enough attention and you get acquisition acquisition of donors, acquisition of leads, acquisition of engagement. And how do I stay away from this like button I can just press over here. Did you see what happened at the border [00:44:53] wall? Donate here. And by the way, it's, you know, we've switched administrations. I can't help, but [00:44:59] notice it doesn't seem like a lot has changed just [00:45:02] objectively looking at the fricking numbers. So how, how do you communicate, [00:45:08] , that that sort of desire to press the money button [00:45:10] the attention plus angry equals acquisition [00:45:12] and, [00:45:12] and, , having these brave bridge [00:45:14] conversations. [00:45:15] The money button is a very tempting button to press. I believe author Amanda Ripley called them conflict entrepreneurs. They benefit when there's conflict and there's certainly money to be made there. Network television am radio. There's a big audiences for this, right? There's certainly plenty of book sales and listen. [00:45:38] There's two ways to go. I think two ways to go about this one is we can lament the prophets of doom, the ones who are saying the sky is falling. The enemies are within a, and they're sounding the alarm and scaring the crap out of us, right? By making us think that bad things are imminent. That's on them. [00:46:01] Shame on them. We wish there were fewer conflict entrepreneurs, but they're there. And the reason why they're successful is because shame on us, we are consuming. Hook line and sinker we're buying it. All right. And so part of it is I think we need to develop some type of resiliency, media literacy skills to where, when we are exposed to this kind of content, we don't just think, oh my gosh, I'm going to hide in the corner. [00:46:30] I never opened my mouth or else I'll really be in trouble. And instead think that is an extreme view. That is not a view that is held by a large number of people, or I should try to understand that viewpoint better so that I can have conversations with those people and really understand them and help turn them around. [00:46:53] Or I can just dismiss it and ignore it because I know that it is, it's not valid. I can fact check it. I can present a counter-argument to it. I can ask for clarifying questions about it. I think that. There's the shame on them and there's the shame on us. And I think [00:47:10] Them are, are valid. So for the conflict entrepreneurs, I would say that that's the best thing to do is. [00:47:18] Is through gird ourselves and defend ourselves with as much media literacy skills as we're capable of mustering. And then to realizing what's at stake, if we don't because that's a motivator too. And I'll tell you one more quick story. When I visited the jet propulsion laboratory, one of the scientists there said, come and make a triangle with your fingers and you can try it, just make a little triangle here. [00:47:41] And he pointed it up to the night sky and found a patch of sky where it looked like there was no stars. It was just blackness. And he thought we're GPL. We're gonna point the Hubble telescope. And that particular patch where it looks like there's nothing. And he then took me into a room. Where the room is about third, a wall of about 30 feet long. [00:48:03] And all I see on it are little white lights, little blips. They look like stars. And I said, what's this wall. And he goes calm. When we pointed the Hubble at that dark patch, these are the three plus billion galaxies that we discovered in that empty patch. And I felt so insignificant as a human being. I'm on one person in one little patch of land on one planet in one galaxy. [00:48:26] And here I'm looking at 3 billion and we're in a place where we thought there was nothing. And when I think about that feeling of cosmic insignificance, it makes these issues. Just immaterial. They don't matter. It doesn't matter if you think the corporate tax rate should be 20%. And I think it should be 25% who cares. [00:48:45] It doesn't matter. I think we feel those feelings of cosmic insignificance when sometimes when we travel sometimes when, when we're in love, sometimes when we're in nature and for in the ocean or in the forest in the mountains we feel that feeling. And I say, remember that feeling, that feeling of humility. [00:49:04] Sometimes we feel it in, in our houses of worship, in our churches and temples and synagogues and mosques that feeling, remember that feeling. Cause we need to have that humility in our hearts when we are, are interacting with other, other people and recognizing that our differences are. [00:49:24] Insignificant and relative to the vast majority of things that we hold in common. [00:49:30] And I know it's hard to think that way sometimes when we get and there's heat in the equation and when we feel like there's a lot at stake, but I think we just have to be mindful of those [00:49:40] things in order to live a happy life. [00:49:43] it sounds like this is going back to our sort of listen, ask clarifying questions and then the super ordination. This is like a, you know super ordination, but framing, right? Put it in the context of you're on a tiny blue dot whipping around us. And [00:49:57] an insignificant sort of way. And now you're very, very angry about the corporate tax rate move of 5%. [00:50:04] Right. Exactly. Right. [00:50:06] I want to be respectful of your time because I could just let this go for two hours. It's not something we do. I could easily do it. I have rapid fire questions, but I [00:50:16] want, I just like you're out there bridging original worlds. You're teaching classes. I don't want to make sure I'm not interrupting a class. [00:50:22] So how are we doing on time for you? [00:50:23] We're good. I'm ready for the rapid fire. I'm excited about that component. I love it on your podcast in general. So I'm [00:50:29] I'm excited to be part of it. [00:50:31] All right, here we go. Please keep your response. Well, you know what you're doing? what is one tech tool or website that you or your organization has started using the last year? [00:50:39] The telephone, the telephone, we don't use it enough. The thing that we [00:50:45] keep in our pocket is a computer, but it is also a telephone. I can't tell you how many times when I'm driving or just taking a walk, I'll call someone out of the blue. How are you doing? [00:50:57] What's new with you. Like come, I haven't heard from you for six [00:51:01] months. [00:51:02] That's right. And sometimes I'll call someone I haven't talked to for five years and just say, I know we don't keep in touch. I'm not looking to rekindle our friendship. I just want you to know that those times that we had together were very special to me and that I always think finally of that and that's it. [00:51:19] And then I feel great. They feel great. And you're able to connect using human voice where you can hear tone and inflection in a way that is really hard to communicate via apps and texts and slacks and emails and tools that we [00:51:34] typically use. So the phone that's my tool. [00:51:37] Tech issues. Are you currently. [00:51:39] I'd call it a social media of FOMO posting. So that is, there are maybe three or four or five main social media channels. There's probably another 50. And when we hear about what as an organization, we think, oh, I need to get on Tik TOK right away, or, oh, Pinterest. I hear people are still using Pinterest extensively. [00:52:03] It's a different demographic. I know I should I don't want to give up my Twitter game. I need to stay in Twitter. So the tech issue is, do we really need to be on all these social media platforms and all hundreds of them, or do we need to be on two or three? And do we need to have different strategies to use each one? [00:52:22] So I need to stop thinking about the fear of missing out to be on all of them and instead think super strategically and surgically [00:52:30] about which handful that I do want to be. [00:52:33] What is coming in the next year that has you the most excited. [00:52:36] Growth growth has me the most excited, the mission of the center for the political future is to bring practical politics without hyper the baggage of hyper-partisanship. And we are trying to train the future political leaders over the three years that I've been here. We've been doing that for not just more and more USC students, but for more and more students across the country, as we expand our [00:53:00] partnerships and then for more and more people in our local community. [00:53:03] And then for more and more people who are just generally interested in the subjects that we're we're raising. So for me, that growth is very exciting. [00:53:11] Can you talk about a mistake you made earlier in your career that shapes the way you do things today? [00:53:16] I in high school was a debater and college was a debater. I knew how to get things done by talking. I thought talking was my super weapon I have since learned. Talking is to a lumber too. And that listening is tool number one. And that mistake of trying to talk my way out of situations versus listen. My way [00:53:39] out of situations is something that has dramatically changed how I resolve conflict and ultimately my life satisfaction [00:53:46] Do you believe NGOs can successfully go out of business? [00:53:50] in theory. Yes. In practice, not really of view has NGOs declare bankruptcy. They don't lose their status with the IRS. It just kind of limps on, or just fades into the sunset. I'd say a few do, but in theory, yes, they can successfully [00:54:11] just stop operating and fade away. [00:54:14] Tara toss you in a hot tub time machine, back to the beginning of your work with procon.org. What advice would you give? [00:54:21] I'd say a focus on the mission alignment with staff. And if somebody doesn't really care about your mission and you think they'll come around, I can convince them. Maybe they'll fall in love. Eventually. It's just like a relationship. Sometimes they're just not that into you. [00:54:40] And if they're not, the best thing to do [00:54:43] is, is, ended. We need to avoid those 80 20 traps. And then with some of those employees, I found that I was using, you know, 80% of my time on those 20% of the people. And it's really just, if they don't align with the mission, then do them and do yourself a favor and cut them [00:55:00] loose. [00:55:00] What is something you believe that you should stop doing? [00:55:04] Stop competing with like-minded organizations. The, a lot of NGOs think about zero sum in their spaces. It's a finite pool of resources. And if we don't get the money, somebody else will. I think we should stop thinking that way. And instead think about partnering because when we can expand the pie and I think partnering is going to help our organizations achieve their missions more effectively and it can lead to consolidation. [00:55:34] So rather than compete and make an enemy out of someone, make them an [00:55:38] ally. And you'll both go from. [00:55:39] Magic wand that you could wave across the industry. What would it do? [00:55:43] Well in the NGO space, I'd say consolidate to amplify and it does not happen hardly ever, but it should happen more consolidation in the for-profit business, acquisitions and mergers. These happen all the time in the NGO world, extremely rare. And yet boy is it needed. There's so much redundancy in the, in these spaces and unnecessary competition. [00:56:08] I'd say partner, liberally, pursue evidence-based intervention strategies [00:56:13] and just consolidate to. [00:56:15] How did you get started in the social impact sector? [00:56:18] My favorite story for this. And I, my point of origin, I think is in 10th grade, I had gone to my second meeting of the junior state of America, which was a debate organization for high school students. And even those all on my second meeting, they said, who wants to be president next year? And I raised my hands. [00:56:36] I don't know why I did. I just did it. And then I ended up competing and winning that, that position, getting that [00:56:42] position. And then I ran again, the following year, grew the chapter from 20 students to about 120 students. It really drove so much of my self-confidence my ability to communicate my ability to get along with other people. [00:56:57] My. The of my ability to have empathy for other viewpoints and other people. And I really say that my social impact motivations came from my experiences in speech and debate, and it all came from that one day. I still don't know why I raised my hand to be president. [00:57:15] What advice did your parents give you that you either followed or did not follow. [00:57:19] My dad always told me Cami, be consistent, be consistent. I think he said it cause he was not well, I was not either. And did not take that advice. I was not consistent. I have a gazillion different kinds of interests. I, my attitude is Intensely curious about other people. And I am a sponge. When I get an opportunity to talk with someone who's [00:57:42] not like me. I want to learn about where they're from, what was their life experience? What kind of things are they into? What are they like? What are some of their lessons for me? And from that I can build momentum for more, for more curiosity and learn about the world and satisfy my curiosity is and [00:57:59] passions that way, but it was not through consistency. [00:58:01] what advice would you give college grads currently looking to enter the social impact sector? [00:58:07] Persistence trumps talents. It really does. Nonlinear career paths are okay. And the norm get your personal and professional mission to overlap. Know your, why ask advice from people that you [00:58:22] trust? [00:58:23] Final question. How do people find you? How do people help you? [00:58:26] Google center for the political future. And you'll find my organization. If you can spell my name, Kamy Ahkavan you could try to Google me and watch some of my talks and presentations about a polarization and partisanship. How bad is it? How did we get this way? And what can we do about it? You can write to me as well. [00:58:48] You can reach me on LinkedIn. I'm very accessible, [00:58:51] very eager to engage with people, very eager to grow my social networks and to expand the mission of the center for the political future as best I can. [00:59:00] Well, thank you for your time. We'll have all of those resources in these show notes. Thank you for the work you do. And I really, really hope you succeed. [00:59:10] Well, thank you, George. I appreciate your support and the opportunity to speak to this whole whale audience that appreciates you and your work very much.

It's time for the Podcastinator! Join the Dead Beat Film Society as we discuss James Cameron's attention to detail, Arnold Schwartzenegger vs. Orson Welles, the 100% Rotten Tomatoes score, low budget practical effects, very 80's hair and music, paranoid fear of A.I., the duty of film critics to be objective, Jonathans 8th grade essay, time travel, sentient robots, Arnie impressions, cyberpunk essence, T2 possibly surpassing this movie, the later sequels and why they're bad, no voiceover(!!), Boston Dynamics robot dogs, gritty 80's action flicks, the chicken and the egg plot, our suggestion for a metaverse sequel, evil corporations as stand-ins for evil robots, and ask Are we still scared of technology? Give me your clothes and hit play for an in depth The Terminator film analysis! (Special Guest: Jonathan Zwickel)  

What is best in life?! It's talking about Conan The Barbarian with your best buds, the Film Class Zeros! For our milestone 10th episode, we revisit the sword and sorcery classic that was Arnold Schwartzenegger's breakout role. It's a big episode where we talk about all the goofy things in this flick while trying to solve the riddle of steel. Strap in for a wild one!

Last week, former governor Arnold Schwarzenegger was involved in a car accident on Sunset BLVD right here in Los Angeles. So Kevin & Sluggo called up Mr. Schwartzenegger to chat about what happened. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

0:35 Dragos nu crede in OZN-uri 1:32 Drona pe planeta marte 3:09 Cazul Comandantului Fravor 2004 5:56 Pentagonul raporteaza OZN-urile sun reale 10:28 Pe 16 decembrie 2017, The New York Times a raportat incidentele și a publicat trei videoclipuri 16:37 Luis Elizondo, fostul șef al programul de investigatorie al Departamentului Apărării 22:00 O conspirație? 19:07 Evenimentele de la Cerțești (TVR1, 1996) 25:12 Contacte cu OZN-uri în România 36:00 Polițistul si Paznicul 42:44 Adunarea satului 47:06 Tractoristul 50:20 Expertii OZN de la Televiziunea Romana 54:00 Dragos trebuie sa plece 58:38 Preview episodul urmator 1:02:52 Asteptam comentarii 1:05:25 Crezi aceste doua cazuri OZN? Este adevarat? 1:09:00 Om inghitit de balena 1:14:15 Afganistan si Crypto #bitcoin 1:22:00 Arnold Schwartzenegger pe podcast 1:27:23 Apple Inc. Steve Jobs 1:30:00 Conflictul de chipuri din Taiwan 1:32:00 Tu crezi in OZN-uri? Cu George si Dragos. This show is bought to you by https://amptoken.org/ BUY the Dip: https://www.livecoinwatch.com/price/Amp-AMPNot a financial advice: https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/amp --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/romania/support

I'm joined by comedian, Co-host of the 'Ain't Got A Clue' podcast  Kae Kurd to discuss his favourite books, activism, koalas being stupid, Australia, writers' block, Arnold Schwartzenegger, American Politics and much more.   Kae's first special is on Youtube for free: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SO3869lfv0    Sponsors   BetterHelp: For 10% off therapy head to www.betterhelp.com/aneedtoread  Heights: Use code need2read for 10% off your subscriptions to your all-in-one brain care supplement    For all else head to www.Linktree.com/aneedtoread 

In 1974 Lord Lucan mysteriously vanished, his passport and valuables were still at his home and his car was found empty, to this day nobody knows what happened to him, on this episode Whatkast examines the case and takes a look at the theories, could he have drowned? Is he living overseas as 'Jungle Barry'? Did he double as Freddie Mercury? Was he murdered by Arnold Shwarzenegger? Shergar was the worlds wost famous racehorse, in 1983 he was taken from his stables never to be seen again, but by who? Favourite theory is the IRA but many other stranger theories have been floating around for years and we take a look at all of them.support us here https://www.buymeacoffee.com/whatkastMerch store http://tee.pub/lic/l7YvevGN0SU

Recorded 7-13-2021:  Pete is back from his vacation and its time to talk Black Widow and the news.  Then Drew and Pete talk about their top five favorite Arnold Schwartzenegger movies. Top 5 list is 47 minutes in

The history of Gatorade is a sweet one, from Florida football to California legislation. Robert and Sam break it all down on an episode you don't want to miss.If you would like to donate your research to "The History of..." or send a donation note please contact me at thehistoryof365@gmail.com.Click to donate here.Check out the show's Instagram here.Resources:Gatorade TimelineAn outdated but useful history of GatoradeAbout Thirst Quencher 2“Be Like Mike” Gatorade CommercialThe bill that banned GatoradeThe Gx Sweat Patch

The online reviews database Rotten Tomatoes has unearthed a negative 80-year-old write-up of "Citizen Kane," stripping the cinematic classic of its perfect score among critics and demoting it below movies including "Paddington 2" and "The Terminator."Orson Welles' masterpiece is widely considered one of the most important titles in movie history, pioneering a number of filmmaking techniques that are still in use today.But it apparently underwhelmed one critic for the Chicago Tribune, whose lukewarm review has come back to tarnish the movie's legacy eight decades after it was written."'Citizen Kane' presents an almost clinical dissection of a complete egotist," the review reads. It goes on to dismiss the film's use of moody sets: "I only know it gives one the creeps and that I kept wishing they'd let a little sunshine in."The review was added to the Rotten Tomatoes website on March 2, but has only been noticed in recent days. The website links out to a newspaper clipping of the decades-old story, and its addition means "Citizen Kane" now no longer has exclusively positive reviews.Welles' film still enjoys 116 positive write-ups on the website, but the sole black mark removes the film from the exclusive "100% club" -- a collection that features movies including the first two "Toy Story" installments, the much-loved "Paddington" sequel and Arnold Schwartzenegger's action classic "The Terminator."The offending review appears to have been written anonymously, with its byline "Mae Tinee" an apparent pun on "matinee."The same critic is listed as the author of a number of contemporary reviews for the Chicago Tribune between the 1920s and 1960s -- they were more complimentary of other classics, including "Lawrence of Arabia" and "Casablanca."The write-up notes the hype that already surrounded the movie on its release, but the critic was nonetheless unmoved. "'Citizen Kane' fails to impress critic as greatest ever filmed," the headline reads.Welles was a 25-year-old phenomenon when his debut feature film, based on the life of newspaper publisher William Randolph Hearst, was released. He also starred in the movie, and his directorial creativity -- along with cinematographer Gregg Toland's distinctive deep-focus frames and unusually angled shots -- revolutionized movie-making."Mank," a biographical film about "Citizen Kane" writer Herman J. Mankiewicz, was nominated for a number of Oscars at last week's Academy Awards, ultimately losing out on the Best Picture prize to "Nomadland."text by Rob Picheta, CNN

EPISODE 4: "What About Bombs?" 3/10/21 This week, 4K Kings discuss a slew of bombs from high profile stars Arnold Schwartzenegger, Bill Murray, and Eddie Murphy - not to mention the entire Cannon Film catalogue). Tell us what you think in the comments below! - Last Action Hero Steelbook 4K - The Go-Go Boys Doc on Blu (Cannon Films) - Quick Change Blu Ray Debut - Golden Child Blu from Paramount Presents - 12 Monkey's Steel (Arrow Video) Diabolik DVD Re-Release (not a bomb) - And more sweet, sweet Germany Busts Thanks for watching! And thanks to all of our new subscribers! Contact: xpromkingsx@gmail.com INSTAGRAM @promkings_

Alan & Bryan talk about a the man who scaled 3 different non related industries. Body Building, Acting, & Governing.... Oh my!  --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/ilived/support

S01E40 - Óttarr Proppé hefur marga fjöruna sopið og erfitt að segja hvort landsmenn þekki hann frekar sem tónlistarmann eða stjórnmálamann. Hann bjó ungur í Bandaríkjunum sem virðist hafa mótað skoðun hans á lífinu, náunganum og möguleikum lífsins, sem og gefið honum innsýn í tísku og tónlist 8. áratugarins sem heillar hann enn í dag. Óttarr er sjálftitlaður „djúpulaugarmaður“ sem finnst fátt betra en að ráðast á garðinn þar sem hann er vel hár og er líklega eini Íslendingurinn sem hefur bæði verið ráðherra og keppt fyrir hönd Íslands í Eurovision. Í gegnum sinn margslungna feril hefur sjóndeildarhringurinn vaxið og hugmyndirnar um hvað er kúl breyst með tímanum. Til dæmis þykir Óttarri bæði Paul Newman og Arnold Schwartzenegger töff – bara hvor á sinn hátt.Gott spjall.  – Reykjavík Roasters býður upp á STVF. Á könnunni er Dona Darko: https://reykjavikroasters.is/shop/dona-darko – Sómi býður upp á STVF. Á gourmet-brettinu er FERSKT PESTÓ og mikið af því: https://somi.is/vorur/ferskt-pesto/ – Hljóðkirkjan býður upp á 6 þætti í viku. Dómsdagur á mánudögum, Kokkaflakk á þriðjudögum, Draugar fortíðar á miðvikudögum, Snæbjörn talar við fólk á fimmtudögum, Besta platan á föstudögum og Nei hættu nú alveg - Spurningaleikur Villa naglbíts líka á föstudögum.  

Join us as we talk all things “Buns,” with none other than Tamilee Webb, the force behind the highly successful “Buns of Steel” and “Abs of Steel” home fitness brand.  Her no hype and down to earth style enabled her to sell over 14 million units worldwide of her highly successful workout videos. Tamiliee takes us on a journey that helped pave the way for many others in a dynamic and expansive health and fitness industry.  With an approach of tackling both the emotional and physical bodies, Tamiliee set a standard that has led to best-selling books, a host position with ESPN's Fitness Pro series, and landed her in the Fitness Hall of Fame alongside household names such as, Jane Fonda, Kathy Smith, Jack LaLane and Arnold Schwartzenegger.  A one-time aspiring country western singer (yes...we get her to belt out in song), Tamilee gives us all useful guidance and tips to be our best selves.  Join us as she leads the “She's a 10” ladies in a bun burning exercise all listeners can all try at home. https://www.instagram.com/shesa10times5/

Connect with Michael Moore and Bob WieremaThe Climb on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-climb-podcast/Bob Wierema: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-wierema/Michael Moore: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelpmoore/Connect with Brian FergusonBrian Ferguson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-ferguson-arena-labs/Arena Labs WebsiteBrian Ferguson: You're at a level one trauma center in Washington, DC. We're in there on a Saturday night at one o'clock in the morning. This is typically when, because of people being out of bars et cetera, you get a lot of trauma. And one time there were two people in there screaming and another person moaning. Just hearing that as I was standing there, I thought ‘it's insane what this does to the human emotion and cortisol levels.' And what's crazy is if you were to observe that and you think about this whole body of knowledge that's come out of the military in the last 15, 20 years about post-traumatic stress and about the implications of people who are in very high stressed emotional environments, either combat or otherwise, we've put a massive amount of resources into helping those people. And yet we ask these trauma nurses and ICU nurses and physicians to go home and have dinner with their families. And no one thinks twice about it because they're not deployed. So, we think about this as the environment is different. You might not be deploying overseas to Afghanistan or Iraq, but you are doing consequential, heavily emotional work that has a chronic element of stress. And when you look at the implications of chronic stress on human beings, that leads to higher levels of cortisol over time, not being able to focus, not being able to sleep. There's a second and third order, long-term impact that has. Michael Moore: Today on The Climb we are joined by Brian Ferguson, founder and CEO of Arena Labs.I'm excited about this one. I don't know Brian as well as some of our other guests, but we were introduced towards the end of last year, both being Gen Next members and got a chance to get on the phone with them for about an hour. And I don't know, 30 seconds in, I thought, dang, dang, dang. We got to get this guy on the podcast. What an interesting background. He'll talk more about Arena Labs, but I think it's an interesting time to have him on because of the passion of what Arena Labs does, and the work that it's doing for our frontline [00:02:00] workers right now, which is so important.Brian, welcome to The Climb. We're excited to have you. Brian Ferguson: Thanks fellas. I appreciate it. Bob Wierema: I can't believe he agreed to come on after talking with you for the only 30 minutes. I mean, that was some, you must have a lot of faith, right?Brian Ferguson: Yeah. We actually need it. Well, I certainly do, but we should also give a shout out to our friend Janeel Alonzo and Michael Davidson. Michael's one of your previous guests and is one of my dear friends and been a huge part of my life. And then Janeel who works with Michael is who I think set this up. So super grateful to her.Michael Moore: Yeah, Bob as they say down in Texas, ‘even the sun shines on a dog's ass every once in a while', I was on that day. My bullshit was flowing, and we had a great conversation.Brian Ferguson: Michael sound cooler in a Texas accent, by the way. If I said it, it wouldn't sound as cool. Michael Moore: We try. So, Brian, before we jump in, I got a little taste of this, but just give us the background. I mean, who is Brian? What shaped you? How have you gotten to where you are today?Brian Ferguson: This is a random way to answer that question. But I have over the course of probably the last 20 years tried to refine an annual process where I just review the last year, think about the year ahead. And then I come back to what I call my life plan, which is really just my best efforts to aggregate everything I've learned in my life in the past and where I want to go in the future. The front of that document – I don't let myself go beyond one page – but the title of that first page is ‘who am I?' And it's my best effort to get outside of a resume or  the way that we often introduce ourselves in these kinds of conversations to remind myself of who I am, but it's interesting, I'm coming to you guys from Cleveland, Ohio. before we started recording, we were talking a bit about that, but I grew up in the Midwest, which I think at this chapter of life, because I'm [00:04:00] back here, I spent the last 20 years away from the Midwest living in Cleveland, Ohio where I think a lot of the things I value in life come out of having been raised in this blue collar community outside of Cleveland, Ohio. And I was super fortunate. I had this amazing upbringing and community;  my family and I grew up with the town that I grew up in.When we moved there, there was just starting to be this push into the suburbs of Cleveland where we were, but I had this idyllic youth. Our house was right on woods and my brother and I grew up in the woods outside all the time. And then, my mom was a nurse, my dad worked in the energy business, and I just had this amazing youth in the sense of the neighbors, the community, my friends, and I was a product of a public school system. That was extraordinary. I think my mom being a nurse, I never appreciated how much that ideal of service was seeded in me from a young age and my brother and I both were always drawn to service in ways that just were natural to me. But now in retrospect, I think are more prominent.And then, beyond growing up in that town, I went to college in Ohio and then I'm pretty fortunate to bounce around. I lived in Washington DC for a while. And the first part of my life was in public service, mainly in national security. So, defense and intelligence diplomacy – that realm.And that was right after 9/11. So, I was an intern actually. I had a really crazy sequence of events. I ended up as an intern in the white house right after 9/11. And that was an insane way to see the world through the lens of ‘how do we think about the future of America after a consequential event like that?' And I stayed in that realm for quite a bit, lived in London for grad school. And then later in life, I went into the military and spent seven years in the military. And that was all part of what I consider that chapter in the national security public service arena, and in the course of that I just increasingly had this desire to build something. [00:06:00] When I do any type of psychometric or character test, I tend to register high on creativity, autonomy, and I was really ready to leave the public service life and go build. And that led me to my current chapter, which is Arena Labs. But I think in all of that, the really important elements in my life, like any of us, the things that matter: I've got a daughter who's two years old now, so I'm experiencing life through her eyes, which is beyond rich, and Lindsey, my wife – we've actually known each other since sixth grade. That's a whole another story, but that's a super powerful subtext for me of being connected back to where I came from. It just feels super grateful. I think increasingly the mission we have in healthcare of helping frontline workers to understand how to navigate stress and pressure and prevent burnout is one that has been elevated in ways we couldn't have imagined.So, it's a fun time to be building. Bob Wierema: That was a good start. You got a lot of questions for us to go down, but I got to start with my knock a little bit, just because you're in Cleveland and the last time I was there, the Cubs won the world series. That's my only knowing in Cleveland. Brian Ferguson: And I think Clevelanders have a weird respect for that just given the drought the Cubs were in at the time. Clevelanders appreciate the suffering that comes with being a perennial fan of a team that never wins. Yeah, the Indians, the 97-world series. You guys remember? I don't know if you remember the loss to the Florida Marlins was soul crushing.And so, the losing of the Cubs was a tough one, but I feel like the city respects Chicago in that way. I'll say the other weird thing. Cleveland sorta has a chip on its shoulder I think for a number of reasons, people talking about the river catching on fire in the seventies, but the Browns are in the playoffs for the first time, since 2002. So, you're 18-years-old as a Cleveland Browns fan and this is the first time the Browns have been in the playoffs and a big part of that is because we have an extraordinary young head coach in Kevin Stefanski who we found out yesterday has COVID [00:08:00] and can't coach in the playoff games.Oh man.I have vivid memories of my dad. A lot of people in Cleveland, the only disposable income they have goes to Browns tickets – t's very much a football town. My dad had season tickets growing up, but some of the losses in the late eighties deer in his binder fumble like vivid memories of just emotional trauma.Michael Moore: You know, Bob, with this being our 15th episode, one of the things we talked about is that there would be a neat culmination of all this as we get up on a year and a podcast alumni group. I think we need to get Brian and Bret Kaufman hooked up together. A lot of similarities and overlap there for sure.So, Brian, to Bob's point, you gave us so many rabbit holes to go down, first and foremost that maybe it was shaped by your mom and her background as a nurse with that service mindset. Was it the events around 9/11 and your time in DC and seeing it through that lens that led you to the Navy? Talk to us about that.Brian Ferguson: You guys may have gone through this, you're going through it, or you will, but I  suspect that all of us have this natural arc of our own evolution where we then are more curious about where we came from, and there's the people who get into genealogy and family heritage. Maybe it's because my daughter's now two and I want to be able to explain to her more.I also had loss in my family. My father passed this spring, and he was the last of my family. And so, there's this legacy element of really wanting to know that legacy or the longer story there. And so, as a result, I've been digging in on this. And I think to your question, Michael, part of it was my mom, for sure, and seeing her in the service mindset, but my brother and I were very fortunate. Our [00:10:00] grandfather, we were very close to my dad's dad, and he served in World War II as a Naval officer on the USS Dayton. And then my mom's dad, we never met, he passed before I was born, but this is crazy. I just found this out.So, I always knew growing up that he had been a fighter pilot. He had flown the P 51 Mustang. But what I didn't know is that he actually was this very rare mission set, which was long range reconnaissance. So, he would fly from Iwo Jima and escort bombers to mainland Japan. And these were eight-hour missions at sometimes negative 60 degrees in the cockpits. These guys that have three layers of long underwear on, they couldn't move when they got back because their bodies were cramping so badly. So, my grandfather had this insane, really rare mission set. And so that whole story was part of the lore of our family.But it wasn't talked about in detail. It was just that my grandpa flew planes in World War II, and then three of my uncles, my mom's brothers – my mom was one of nine – three of my uncles were in Vietnam. And two of them were, one in particular was in very heavy combat in [inaudible]. And so again, that was just a big part of the story, we were close to our families, our cousins.So, I think all of that in the aggregate was what led me there. It's funny, I was just in the spirit of going through a lot of my dad's belongings. I found a bunch of newspapers that I had saved as a kid. And I saved a whole series from, if you guys remember, the coast of a war in 1998. And I remember at high school, I think I was a senior just being fascinated by statecraft and geopolitics and decisions of consequence like this war happening in what seemed to me to be a part of the world and understand. So, all of that stuff led me to college where I was very fortunate to have some professors who kind of stoked that flame a little bit.And so, by the time I got to that internship at the white house, I was just mesmerized [00:12:00] by the complexity and magnitude of decisions that had to be made for a nation or a set of nations and that kind of environment. And then I think to maybe finish that thought, if I'm being honest, I was drawn into service. My brother went into the army and my brother had a very illustrious career in the army. And I had looked at West Point when I was in high school. And I had the foresight to recognize that military academy was not for me, but because I saw what was happening in 9/11 and then I worked in the white house and the Pentagon in that era, I had always thought that was going to [inaudible] my desire to serve, but I always felt like I was in an air conditioned building, safe while my peers and my brother were out actually deployed. And there's a powerful story about a stranger who said to me, “Brian, if that's something you want to do until you go do it, you'll be inherently dissatisfied with the rest of your life.”I would say the best advice I've gotten in my life has been from strangers and that notion of being inherently dissatisfied because I didn't get to where the nation's cloth was something I knew I couldn't live with. So, I was 28 when I was about as late as you can be to join. Bob Wierema: So was that what made that turning point to make you go join? Was it that conversation with that stranger, as you mentioned? Brian Ferguson: It was a big part of it. I had the short version intern in the white house that turned into my first job which was incredibly fortunate, but I just didn't care for politics in that intense sense. And I was really lucky to go over to the Pentagon where there's still politics, but at the end of the day, the thing I love about national security in the military is that there really is a higher order of good that people attempt to pursue, whether you agree with it or not, it's more pragmatic. And I really enjoyed that environment. And so, a lot of those people I worked around at that time became either people who were mentors for me, that I looked up to and took their advice. I think if I'm being honest, I didn't have the courage to let go of that career and take the risk of going into the military. And so that [00:14:00] stranger just being totally clear with me and telling me what I needed to hear was probably the final straw where I was coming out of grad school, I was looking at going into investment banking, and I realized that anything I go do, I'm going to continue to come back to this desire. So, yeah, that was probably the final straw. Michael Moore: So then from that moment, Brian, into being in the Navy, with your brother being in the army, how did you go about making that decision or did the Navy find you? Brian Ferguson: I actually, I was incredibly fortunate because I was working in the Pentagon, so I had access to just about all the information, advice, and resources you'd want. I was very close to joining the Marine Corps. At that point in my life, I'd seen enough where I knew I wanted to be able to deploy in – the term is used as combat arms. So, you can go into the military and maybe go work in space or in intelligence, I wanted to be able to deploy potentially in a combat environment. And so, the Marine Corps was the fastest way to do that. The Marine Corps played a massive role in the conflict over the last 20 years. And at the time you can go in very quickly that the Marine Corps is very good at getting people in quickly.The army, on the other hand, part of what I wanted to do in the military, in the army, it would have taken me a lot longer to get there. And then frankly, I've always been drawn to the . My hometown is on Lake Erie and I just loved the maritime element. And because I'd been in the Pentagon, I saw the strategic thinking of senior Navy leaders.A friend of mine always talks anecdotally about this. If  you're a commander of a ship in the Navy, you're out at sea in this little piece of real estate you're responsible for that has real strategic capability globally. So, you have to learn to think strategically. And I just saw that in Naval leaders and so culturally, I was drawn to the Navy and then the part of the military I wanted to go into, I loved the idea of doing that in a maritime environment. And so, it was,  probably a three-year Odyssey of getting there. I looked at the air force. I was kind of all over the map, but really close to joining the Marine Corps.And then [00:16:00] got lucky and got into the Navy. Michael Moore: And so, if you're willing to share, seven years is a long time. Can you tell us about some of the defining moments in the Navy and things that you were a part of and witnessed? Brian Ferguson: Yeah. It's interesting because it's funny for me to hear you say that Michael, because seven years in the context of the military is often short.You get guys and gals who will do 30 years, and that's not uncommon and some of my good friends now that I work with or people who did 25 or 30, but it was definitely, I would say unequivocally, it was the most consequential and formative period of my life. Of everything, from character to understanding myself and potential.I think I was really fortunate to serve in the special operations community. And if you think about that moment in time, post seven(?), the role that community played in the conflicts overseas in Afghanistan, Iraq, I sort of walked into this culture where I was literally standing on the shoulders of giants because that reputation that special operations has benefited from, all of these guys who preceded me had built.And so, I came in in 2008, 2009, and that reputation has really been solidified and there was this amazing community. So, I always felt really humbled and privileged. It is without a doubt in terms of character, in terms of the type of people you're proud to be around, I will never be in a richer environment that way and wanting to be better pushing oneself. But I think if you go into the military any capacity, but I found particularly the training environment I was in, I would say the first part of that is being in training. You learn that if you believe in something bigger for the right reasons, you can transcend what you're capable of, and most of us don't realize that in our lives.And so, when you're exposed to that in a raw way, when someone forces you to see, my friend uses the term, ‘what's at the bottom of your own well', it's the most powerful, liberating part of the human experience [00:18:00] that a lot of people don't push, and you don't have to do it in the military. You can do it in a whole bunch of other realms, but that for me – another friend and teammate of mine always says that when you go through that type of training, you're a completely different person and the same person all at once. And it's so true because from a character and a personality perspective, you're the same, but you've suddenly seen what you're capable of in the world. And it's hard to live any differently once you've been exposed to that.  And then from a deployment perspective, I had two deployments and both of them were relatively, I would say, low key compared to what most people know, or a lot of my buddies experienced in special operations. And the time that I came in and ended up deploying 2012, 2014, things were really calming down at that point. We were no longer in Iraq. And so, it was an interesting time where this community that had been so postured for very intense operational tempo was moving back into an almost non-war posture. But any person I meet who's thinking about the military, if that's on your mind, there's just nothing like it in terms of experiences, skillsets, and just the things you're exposed to.Bob Wierema: I was going to ask for some of our listeners, when you made that transition, and obviously it was a big decision for you to go and do that, there's folks out there thinking about doing it. How would you, if you look back, how would you educate or guide them on making that decision of, do you go or do you not go?Brian Ferguson: It's interesting because these things, if I think about myself, I don't make decisions. I wouldn't say I was a person who knew this idea of making decision from the heart. I'm probably overly analytical, tend to over intellectualize things. That one for me, because it was something I felt in my gut for so long, it was just being honest with myself. And there's this simple question of, ‘if I didn't do this, what would that mean?' And I had seen enough people who didn't [00:20:00] do it, that I knew I couldn't live the life I wanted to, without at least committing. And interestingly there's a book called The Alchemist by a guy named Paulo Coelho.I just read that at that moment in time. And it was one of those books that spoke to me, almost. I keep a running list of my favorite quotes and I've got like three or four long passages from that book that are so profound because it almost sounds cliche and trite, but in life, it comes down to follow your heart. I mean, stay true to a value system and a North star and it's not about just being a hedonist and doing what you want, but one of my favorite authors Ayn Rand too – wrote the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged – one of her quotes is, “why is it that we tell people it's bad to do what we want because there really is nothing harder, truly harder than doing what we truly want in life?”It's not the thing that is just the easy, today I feel like going out and drinking rather than fulfilling some responsibility, but like the deeper, what is my life meaning? Can I go pursue that? It's actually really hard. And so, The Alchemist for me opened up that if you don't at least pursue this journey, your heart is always going to wonder. And that was powerful for me. Bob Wierema: It's so funny because I think it goes within anything you do, right? The comfortable or easy decision would have been for you to stay and do what you were doing. Right. I think a lot of people don't follow their heart because it's more comfortable not to, it's easier not to. And I think  you made the comment earlier on, if you believe in something bigger, you can transcend what you think you're capable of, and to have that type of mindset – that's just incredible to get that because I think we miss out on a lot of opportunity in our lives if we're not thinking big, if we're not trying to push to that next level. I always say to my fiancé, I don't want to live a life of mediocrity. I can't have that. [00:22:00] That's not going to give me the fulfillment I'm looking for in life.Michael Moore: I was just going to say to that point, because I completely agree. Back to this advice that you were given by this stranger that literally changed the path of the life you were on,  growing up were told not to talk to strangers, but I think at a certain point you gained so much raw truth.I'm the guy that is going to talk to you on the airplane. You find when you don't know somebody, the advice that you get is raw and true because they have no preconceived notions of who you are or what you would want the answer to be because they know you really well. So, thank you for that insight.I think this can help us transition to the business side, the point you made on seven years not being long in the military. You're exactly right. I think being in the business world like Bob and I are, seven years – especially for the generation below us – is a lifetime in any type of industry. So, you have a lot of different jobs in seven years to ultimately get you to where you want to be. And so, before we jump into Arena Labs, if you guys are good transitioning, there were a lot of steps after the military to get you to Arena Labs in this passion mission that you're on.Can you dive into that for us?Brian Ferguson: Absolutely. I want to just quickly put a period, Bob, on your talking earlier of the notion of how do we make those hard decisions? And one of the things I've learned is that like anything, that's a muscle to be exercised, the ability to lean into something uncomfortable. I'm amazed even now. It's something I have to really be aware of when I'm resisting something, or I know something's the right move. And I think living authentically, I really believe it's the hardest thing to do in the world. To be honest with yourself and your [00:24:00] relationships. But it's a muscle to be exercised.I think it's something we think about intentionally with raising our daughter now, but in society, when you get comfortable and in particular from perception perspective, if things are good, it's really hard to leave that from an ego aspect. So, there's a whole separate discussion there, but it's been on my mind a lot lately.Michael, to your question, so when I left the military, one of the things I was really privileged with was I worked with this leader who was an extraordinary leader in special operations. And I was in Hawaii in a unit that focused mainly underwater and when you decide to leave, you tend to have a 12-month glide slope where you're no longer operational and guys who've been in for 30 years really need to use that time to figure out how am I going to acclimate to the world and the other side of this?And that's called military transition. There's an entire, fortunately, body and ecosystem of organizations that have sprung up in the last 15 years to support people who are leaving and their families. But because I had been a civilian before and had a life and came in later, I knew roughly I was going to go out and I wanted to work in the human performance, human potential space.So I used that last year to focus on building an innovation cell that was looking at how we bring emerging technology into special operations, and how do we do that particularly to amplify human performance? And in the course of that, I was in touch with a whole bunch of unlikely partners. Some of them in the private sector, some in national laboratories, DARPA. But being from Cleveland, Ohio, I was back in home in Cleveland, just visiting for the holidays. And I was put in touch with the heart surgeon, and the Cleveland Clinic heart and vascular institute has been ranked number one in the world for 26 years in a row now, when it comes to heart care. Doing anything at number one in the world for 26 years is doing something right. And even growing up in Cleveland, when the city was struggling, that was sort of the shining star. So, I reached out to this heart surgeon and I sent him an email.I went on [00:26:00] the list of 15 heart surgeons at the Cleveland Clinic. And I just got lucky. I reached out to this guy named Doug and he invited me in and so I said, “hey, here's the stuff I'm working on. I would love to know what you guys think. Interestingly, heart surgery is very similar to special operations. You have a group of eight to 12 people working in a life and death, high pressure, time constrained environment. And there's a lot of technology and that team has to come together around the mission and technology”, and I wanted to see how they were thinking about it. So, I reached out to Doug. He has me in for breakfast. We have a really fascinating conversation about teams and culture and technology. He brings me into his operating room. I watched him do a couple of heart surgeries. And on one hand I would say I was blown away by the technological advancement of the number one institution in the world in heart care. But on the other hand, I was astounded that there was no conversation at the individual or the team level about pressure, stress, burnout. How do you perform and communicate in a crisis when things go wrong? What do you do? All of these things that you could be in any part of the military, they're almost 101 and that are also very prominent and prevalent in sport and the creative arts, they just were missing.And so that really was this epiphany moment for me. There's a great opportunity here, and this is a really cool area that needs help. And that was the seed that began a sequence of events, Michael, that eventually led to founding Arena Labs. Michael Moore: So, what's it like going in cold and seeing a heart surgery like that?Brian Ferguson: I think different people have different reactions. I'm always very humble about my own background. I've never been to medical school. I'll never have to go to nursing school. I always find being in the operating room humbling number one, to just see the advancement of human beings – we can put someone to sleep for eight hours and open up their chest and do surgery on their heart or their brain or their leg. It's just, that's fascinating. Again, you realize how advanced we are as a society. And then I personally, I find heart surgery to be almost a divine [00:28:00] experience, to see the human heart beating or up close and to see someone operating on it and saving a life. It's just a very sacred thing.So, it's never lost on me whenever I have the privilege of being in the operating room. It's really powerful. Bob Wierema: Do you still go in the operating room then today?Brian Ferguson: So the way that we built the company is around that whole concept I just told you about, which was, “hey, there's this Delta that exists, what if we were to bring the tools, training, and technology that other high pressure disciplines use – whether that's from the military, from sport or the creative arts – what if we brought that body of knowledge into healthcare?”That became the basis of our company, and we call that high performance medicine. The first part of the business was a services business, where we brought people who had those backgrounds, and we would embed them alongside medical teams in the operating room. And so, we would watch surgery and then we'd interview people.And of course, we're not looking at the technical side of surgery, like, “how well are you performing here?” We're looking at what happens before, when things go wrong, what does that culture look like? What happens afterward? What are the rituals, the protocols, the team dynamics? And we would aggregate that into a set of observations that then we would use to help hospitals build what we called surgical performance programs.And so, if you're running a hospital, generally right now one of the biggest issues you're dealing with is burnout. So, people who are stressed, who are overworked, who don't understand how to navigate this really difficult career. And you're also trying to figure out – you've probably mastered the technical skill if you're a place like the Cleveland Clinic – but no one's really thought about human factors and how do you help people actually lead teams and serve on teams that are high pressure? And so surgical performance programs bring all of that knowledge and help hospitals implement it. Bob Wierema: I guess I've never thought about it like that. You're talking and my head's going, “yeah, that team has to be such a high functioning [00:30:00] team working together. There can't be  nuances between team members or someone pulling the team down because if there's a little slip up – here in my world, right? The slip up here, it's not life-changing. Yours, in that world, could be. There's a ton of pressure that comes with that.Brian Ferguson: And what's interesting, Bob is that the world I came out of, and special operations as an example, usually at a minimum you're with the same team for two years. And in that two-year 24 months cycle, roughly 18 months are spent training together, understanding. And so, when you're on night vision, there you go, you can tell someone just by their silhouette, how they walk, you get to know people in a very intimate way. What's amazing about medicine, even at a place like the Cleveland Clinic, is it's not uncommon for a surgeon to get in the room and never have met someone on his team for that day. So there's a whole separate challenge, and that's that isn't changing in medicine anytime soon. And so, the question becomes, if you're going to serve on any team, how do you control for culture so that when people show up, they may have never worked together, but they're all on the same page about what's the standard of performance? How do we cultivate trust quickly?How do we get people to understand back to this idea of transcending what you're capable of? This is why it's so important to believe in something bigger, because people then want to serve. They want to do their best to serve that mission, and a lot of times that's lost in healthcare and those are some of the things that we start to help hospitals think about.Michael Moore: You know, Brian, we talk leading up to this podcast when we're getting to know each other, and unfortunately, I have a little bit of experience in trauma centers in ICUs just with my mom and my wife's mom. And to your point, you've got situations and decisions that have to be made in a split second that either create longevity [00:32:00] or wind things up and then that, for whatever reason, always seems to happen in the middle of the night. And then you've got this super stressed out family that's just looking for answers and has been thrown into this and doesn't understand. So, the pressure on those frontline workers from the surgeon all the way down to the person just coming to buy and reading a chart is just a level of stress that most people don't understand. And so, give us some more insight into how Arena Labs works. What's the DNA and how does it deliver results? Brian Ferguson: You're keying in on  the things that we think are most important. One is if each year, Time magazine does a person of the year, you may have seen that, and last month they had the three finalists for the person of the year, one of which was frontline medical workers. And the proposed cover of that magazine was this amazing set of images of all of these frontline staff. You guys have seen I'm sure some of these pictures – because they're wearing personal protective equipment for so long, it's literally imprinting these marks on their face and they just look exhausted. It's just powerful imagery. And so, you think about that in the context of dealing with COVID and all of the emotional challenges you've heard about, of people having to say goodbye on Zoom and a nurse holding up a phone in the room. It's super intense stuff. And you think about, as you're bringing up Michael, the ICU or trauma, and when our team was observing, we were at a level one trauma center in Washington, DC, but we were in there on a Saturday night at one o'clock in the morning. And this is typically when you have, because of people being out of bars, et cetera, you get a lot of trauma. And at one time there were two people in there screaming and another person moaning. And just hearing that, as I was standing there, I thought ‘it's insane what this does to the human emotion and cortisol levels'. And what's crazy is if you were to observe that and you think about this whole body of knowledge that's come out of the [00:34:00] military in the last 15, 20 years about post-traumatic stress and about the implications of people who are in very high stressed, emotional environments, either combat or otherwise, we've put a massive amount of resources into helping those people. And yet we ask these trauma nurses and ICU nurses and physicians to go home and have dinner with their families. And no one thinks twice about it because they're not deployed. So, we think about this as the environment is different. You might not be deploying overseas to Afghanistan or Iraq, but you are doing consequential heavily emotional work that has a chronic element of stress.And when you look at the implications of chronic stress on human beings, that leads to higher levels of cortisol over time, not being able to focus, not being able to sleep. There's a second and third order, long-term impact that has, so to answer your question, what do we do? When we initially were building the business, the first three years were what I just described as we were running a services business. We were embedding in hospitals and we are helping those hospitals build not only a program around performance in these human factors. Things like, it's one thing to say that we want our operating rooms to run on time. It's another to think about what's the leadership structure in place here? How are we training the leaders who have to run those operating rooms so that they can make decisions and be clear and connect that into a culture? And so, it's implementing all of these elements that allow that human system to do what it does best and then focus on the individual, giving that individual tools around, what does it mean to get good sleep? What does it mean to recover after a stressful day? How do I decompress on the weekend? What we were finding is that as you guys well know, in the services businesses, it's really important for human touch, but it's not scalable and it can be daunting. And I don't think starting with scale is ever the right approach for a startup. But what we started to realize is we weren't reaching enough people and in the dynamic nature of healthcare, it's tough to get in front of people in the right way. So COVID completely killed our business in March, our services business literally evaporated [00:36:00] because we could no longer go into hospitals alongside frontline medical teams. Most hospitals still, if you're not essential personnel, you can't go in.And so that was a blessing for us because classically, we had to say, “okay, we know there's a demand signal for what we're doing here. And actually, it's heightened because of COVID”. And we took three-and-a-half years of learning and we created a content and a data business. So, what we've built is a platform that takes all of the learnings and teachings of our team and our performance ambassadors and it's now built into a series of three pillars. A pillar around the individual, learning about how to be a high performer in healthcare, how to manage sleep and stress, how to optimize interactions with your teammates. And then there's a second pillar on how do you serve on a team that's high pressure in a life and death environment? And the third then is how do I lead and manage in that environment? And so that's all offered digitally, but while you're on our platform, we have a partnership with a company called Whoop, and so you have a wearable sensor that's gathering biometric data on your sleep, on your stress, in your recovery.And so, the things we're teaching you, you're actually getting personalized feedback on that topic. And you're starting to learn how to not only understand yourself in terms of these critical biomarkers, but what that means in the context of recovering and flourishing over the course of a career. And then we take all of that data and most importantly, we now give that to hospital leaders and surgical leaders so that they can for the first time actually see what their team looks like in terms of stress and recovery and be smarter about how they allocate human capital train and let people recover. Bob Wierema: Brian, I want to go back to the Whoop piece. Because I was thinking, are they wearing that throughout the day? And then you're actually taking  not only monitoring sleep and things like that, but also how they are in a surgery or a certain environment within the hospital?Brian Ferguson: Exactly. So, any of these devices is on 24/7. One of the things that we know, we [00:38:00] want to understand acute events, meaning if something really goes wrong in surgery and it's super stressful, the reality is that those events, particularly for veterans of medicine, are not as common as you'd think. If you or I go into the operating room, it feels stressful, but that's become fairly normal, they have acclimatized to that.What we're trying to understand is the chronic implications of being in a high stress environment over time. And so, it's equally important to understand what does the weekend look like? One of the things we learned early on is if you have a really stressful week, your weekend isn't relaxed. There's a residual effect of that stress on your weekend. And that bleeds into interactions with your family. Interestingly, when I was in the special operations community, we were going through this massive Renaissance that was the same thing, because what we realized was that guys were deploying at very high operational tempos on reverse circadian rhythms.So, they were operating at night, awake during the day. They weren't getting enough sleep. They were in high stress environments. So, their cortisol levels were spiked. And with all of that, then they'd come home and try to reintegrate into this family environment. And it was creating this real challenge. And so, a whole sequence of events happens from the stuff we're doing around educating things like sleep, how to optimize your actual sleep hygiene and your environment you sleep in,  all the way down to how does your family understand this so that your family is aware of the realities of your job and how best to maximize recovery time. That over the course of a decade then led to this very sophisticated organization. So, what we're looking to do in healthcare is that same phenomena.Let's start with the basics of getting people educated and increasingly give them tools so they can be smarter and feel more empowered and more agency. Michael Moore: Brian, with the crossroad and defining moment that occurred when COVID hit and business as normal did not exist because you couldn't go in there and you pivot, it hadn't been a lot of times since that happened, right? That was March. [00:40:00] But in that time, what KPIs and ROIs, what has come out of that now that you're implementing it in a different way? What are you seeing?Brian Ferguson: Number one - I think even this gets into Bob's point earlier – the things about we get comfortable and we know something isn't working, we need to change. If I'm being honest, we have built a reasonably comfortable business. It was a services business, but number one, I was increasingly unhappy because I was on a plane all the time, I was in hospitals. And more importantly, I was like, “we're not getting the data we need here. What I'm realizing is that on one hand, people leaders in healthcare are saying their number one issue is burnout, and yet the only way burnout is measured is self-reported surveys. So that's super problematic. We don't actually have data to understand what does burnout mean? How do we recognize it early?” So, the first set of KPIs, Michael, is we for the first time actually have data at scale on teams and medicine. You could go to most hospitals in the United States right now and ask them, “what is the overall state of health? How rested is your team?” They would have no idea, but if you go to the Cleveland Brown, you go to an NFL team, you go to a Cirque de Soleil, there are elite performing artists. This is stuff that's seen as essential. If you want those people to last and flourish and be around, and it's not a big investment, it's just saying this is a priority. So, for us, what happened is for the first time we started getting data on heart rate and what's someone's HRV? HRV ends up being this amazing predictor of how stressed someone is. Just from feedback and qualitative surveys we're for the first time starting to get data around how does a critical event, how is that perceived across the team? And then how does that correlate to the biomarkers in that team? Did they not sleep as well? So, we're starting to get a data picture that we can use to correlate this massive [00:42:00] endemic problem in healthcare which is burnout, and give hospitals a proactive posture, rather than just saying, “this is a huge problem. What do we do?” Bob Wierema: Brian, when you say that, so I'm going through this a little bit right now. And I'm in just the business world, right? I'm in sales and one of the things I've been spending a lot of my time on lately. So, my fiancé's a professional ballerina – going back to your sports analogy – I was talking to her and she obviously has to be in phenomenal shape and do all these certain things and COVID put a damper on that. So, what can she do to stay in shape so that when things do come back, she can be at optical for performance. And then we were talking one night, and I said, "if I think of myself as an athlete, my business, what are the things that I can focus on? All I have is my mind, and then what can I drive most in my mind to keep me good? There's the stresses of business and all of these different things. How do we exercise? What's my heart rate? What's my sleep? All these things you're talking about. And I've already noticed as I'm learning this and trying new things, the little upticks in performance, or how sharp I feel that day from those little things. And it's amazing when you tell me that about a medical community, someone that we rely on to save our lives and they're not spending all that time in that area, because there's probably so many other places they can put their resources towards. And to me it seems like from talking to you that you should be spending a lot more time there to get optimal. You said amplify human performance, that's exactly where we should be spending our time with those people right?Brian Ferguson: Yeah. Michael Moore: Is that stigmatism around because medicine and trying to help – people have been born and died since the beginning of humankind. So, and you've had medical people along the way trying to figure that out. Is it because it's occurred for so long? And the expectation is that [00:44:00] especially if you're a trauma surgeon, it's going to be stressful that this key ingredient was just missing.Brian Ferguson: Yeah. I actually – see personally I've thought about this lot. I think the phenomenon is just for three reasons. But before I get into that, let me say it's really important that I foot stomp this – we are not in any way advocating that choosing a life, whether that's on the front lines of medicine or in the military, those jobs are not for everyone. Resilience and the willingness to do hard things – that's a precursor to make sure that someone can perform when it counts. So, we are never suggesting that these organizations should soften in a way that  takes care of everyone. It doesn't account for the fact that this was just a stressful career and that's part of the society. People have to do hard things. However, when I look at the state of the landscape of medicine, there's really, again, there's three avenues that I find interesting around what culture has happened.So, one is just in the modern world. Technology has advanced in a way that allows hospitals to do more with less. So, it's like the same amount of people were asking you to do more operations, just like we see in businesses, right? People are being asked to do more because technology is an amplifier, but just like we see in business, there's a toll that takes on a human system.And so, when we start to intersect human systems with advanced technologies, like artificial intelligence and big data and predictive algorithms like that, that has an impact. The second is that culturally people – it's very similar to how it is on special operations. So, in the seal community, you go through something called hell week and hell week is a week period where it's the crucible.It's sort of the defining moment in early seal training. And you are awake from Sunday evening until Friday morning. So, for five days, you're awake. You take two naps in there and those naps are critical just for the brain to essentially stay functional. But otherwise, you spend five days in a state of motion and physical activity.The purpose of that is, [00:46:00] as I said on the front end, is to show you what's at the bottom of the well. What you're actually capable of beyond what you think you're capable of. And it is an incredibly liberating experience for people who get through it. The problem then is people are falsely tricked into thinking they don't need sleep, when the reality is that sleep is the single most important performance drug we all have access to. So, then the community has to think, you have to get people to realize if you truly want to pursue mastery and be a special operator at the top of your game, taking care of yourself is paramount and you're responsible for that. And here's the tools to do it. Now that doesn't suggest that sometimes you might actually be deployed and you're not going to have the ability to sleep eight hours a night, you're gonna get two hours. And so how do you maximize that? That same cultural challenge exists in medicine. They just never addressed it. Never addressed it. I kid around that people revere hell week as this crazy crucible and it certainly is, but people who are surgical residents in medicine, these people sleep three to four hours a night for six years at a time. It's madness how hard being a surgical resident is, and what's expected of you, and how under rested you are.So, they come out of that thinking, “I don't need to sleep, sleep is for the weak. If I sleep, I'm not going to be good”. And so culturally it becomes commonplace in medicine that not taking care of yourself, not resting is seen as a sign of strength, and that has not been broken yet. It's starting to break a little more with a younger population, but the most important one, Michael, the third reason – you see this across medicine, I saw it in public service, people who are service minded, who want to give to the world, who want to do hard things and save lives, they will give of themselves and give of themselves to a fault. And they will sacrifice their own health in the process. If you don't have leaders who see that and know how to protect those people from their better angels, what it leads to is a massive human toll of people being burned [00:48:00] out. We see this in the military, you look at what was asked of young soldiers, men and women over the last two decades who were willing to give of themselves. And this is one of the reasons I'm so passionate about leadership, because if you don't think about these things, you don't think about the implications of asking people to go to war or go to the front lines of an ICU day in and day out, what you see is a human toll that you can't reverse. Michael Moore: Brian I want to ask a summary question just because you've seen it from so many angles. You've seen it from the military side. Your time in DC now, your time as a CEO and founder of a company that truly is making a difference. We thank you for that. As you look back on this last year with all the politics that we've endured, with the hit of COVID, with the beginnings of the rollout of a vaccine, from your vantage point, how do you feel about it? Score that for us. Brian Ferguson: I go in and out of this one, Michael, because I – on a personal level – I feel incredibly fortunate that number one, we've been able to navigate this and for the most part are not suffering in the way that I know a lot of people are. when you're asked a question like that, it's hard not to recognize that and just say, from a humble human perspective, whatever one thinks of this scenario, a lot of people have died, a lot of people are suffering economically. Our nation is really in a state of pain right now. When I move myself into a higher level of thinking, or I shouldn't say that – I'll zoom out. The thing that I see in all these sectors is, and I saw this in the military, there's a real tension. If you think about the organizations, the [00:50:00] institutions that govern our lives, that we rely on, that we learn in – education, the military, medicine, they're legacy structures of the 19th and 20th century, and they're not equipped for the 21st century. And that tension is only accelerating.And so, what we see is the reason I personally think that having worked in government and in politics and in the military, those organizations have a beautiful legacy that we're all proud of, but they don't work in the 21st century. They can't move fast enough. You see it in election cycles, you see it in defense deployments. One day we're worried about viruses in a lab in China. The next day, we're worried about a threat from the cyber realm in Russia, and the speed of the change, our institutions can't keep up. And so, in a weird way, I've always felt like everything going on in the world is symptomatic of that creative destruction that needs to happen.I am an optimist in that I think we are as a human society, in a collective society, are going to have to evolve into new structures. I would be lying if I figured out what those are, but I'm not someone who's a post-nationalist who believes in this sort of global environment, nation states are still going to need to exist. I just don't know what the structures are that are gonna allow us to flourish? But I think right now we're seeing a breakdown that is a natural product of Moore's law (?), technological advancement, and all of the complexity that creates. And the last thing I'll say is the beauty in all of it is that it's forcing us to return to the very human side of ourselves. I could sound almost cliché, but think about what the last 10 months has done for all of us. It's pushed us into a state of appreciating the human experience in the most basic way. My Christmas this year was just my wife and daughter and I, and we had nowhere to go. No obligations, no rushing around. I didn't even care about presents. And there was this presence in that existence [00:52:00] that I think is beautiful and that's where the moment in time, that goes way back. I do think that that is the blessing in all of this. Bob Wierema: Brian, do you think that – because we've talked about the social media presence and some of this and do you think there's also the other side? I think there's also the other side of our society that's so caught up in the media and social media and this isolation, I think there's going to be so many challenges with that as well. You're looking at it from the optimist view. What do you think about that flip side of the view?Brian Ferguson: It's a great point. And I would agree. Actually, I was talking to a really impressive woman who's a young cardiac surgeon and having this discussion, and she was saying that we still don't really have data on what social media does to the brain and to the human experience, the longitudinal. There's that the movie you guys may have seen called The Social Dilemma, which talks a bit about the neuroscience of social media. I will tell you what I've said from day one is look, first and foremost I am not in government right now, and it's always easy. It's why my company is called Arena Labs and the namesake of our business comes from the Teddy Roosevelt quote that is commonly known as the ‘man in the arena' quote, but it comes from a speech he gave in 1910 called Citizenship and Republic. Roosevelt is talking to a group of leaders in France. And he's saying, “look, you are accomplished successful leaders, but you have an obligation to stay involved in society. Because it's not the critic who counts, but the man or woman in the arena marred by dust and sweat and blood, who knows the great victories of success, the great failures of defeat”.And the idea is that in life, it's easy to be on the sidelines and be a critic, but it's about people doing hard shit that really advances the world. So, I say that as a precursor, I'm not having to make hard decisions right now, but from the start, my biggest gripe in all of this has been in what one could argue is the biggest domestic crisis we faced in our lifetime, [00:54:00] full of stress. We have asked people to stay inside and in doing so they're consuming news. They're getting more stressed. They're not active, they're drinking more. And we're seeing higher rates of depression, and the psychosomatic impact of asking people to sit inside for a year of their lives and not interact with human beings – I'm seeing that play out in close friends, family. I think we have undervalued the implications of that from the beginning of this. I recognize there's not an easy solution, but that has been my biggest concern from the start. Michael Moore: That's a great point. I guess probably just because it was leading up to the end of the year and people are reflecting, you just heard it over and over again. “I'm so glad 2020 is going to be in the rear-view mirror”. Unfortunately, this isn't just a 2020 problem. Bob and I have talked a lot on this podcast about 2020 being such a defining moment of the old economy and the new economy, and what is that really going to look like? So, I think we would really appreciate the opportunity maybe towards the end of 2021 to bring you back on and just get another rear-view mirror look from where you're seeing things and what your company and technology and the frontline workers are going through because it's not going away, but it's people like you that are passionate about it coming up with out of the box ideas that are certainly gonna get that back headed in the right direction.So, both of us really appreciate what you're doing. Brian Ferguson: Well, that means a lot. I will quote another person I looked up to when I was little, which is the great Arnold Schwartzenegger who when asked, said, he's a self-made man. He's like, I'm the furthest thing from being self-made. And I'll tell you, the reason I feel so fortunate, guys like Michael Davidson, these people who've been massively influential on my journey in our team right now at Arena. [00:56:00] The amount of people who are involved in this mission, I just feel super humbled. So, it's always awkward coming on a podcast representing myself, but definitely part of a way bigger mission, which I'm super grateful for.Michael Moore: Well, we like to ask a question and it kind of ties in with – we may have to ask you if we can borrow it, I love that visual of seeing what's at the bottom of your own well. So, the question really is going to be what's at the bottom of your well? But the way that we have asked it historically has been, there's that saying of, it's not what you know, it's who you know, and then we turn it around and say, it's not who you know, it's who knows you.So, using this podcast as a medium, whether it's future business for Arena Labs, whether it's your daughter and wife, what do you want people to know about Brian Ferguson? Brian Ferguson: I think at the end of the day, it's a very sincere life dedicated to being authentic around the things I believe in. And I work really hard for the person I am publicly to be the person I am privately.And I don't think that's always easy in today's world. It's often convenient to have two different archetypes. When I was young, a senior in high school, I got in trouble. I was on one hand a leader in my class and my community, and I got in trouble for this big party. And my mom was very wise about it. She's like, “right now you're two different people and at some point, you need to make a decision on who you want to be”. And three years later, when I was graduating college, my grandmother gave me a list of her favorite quotes. The top of which was “character is what you are in the dark”. And so, for me, I really want to live a life of virtue and be someone who contributes to society and serves and is a phenomenal mentor and role model for my daughter.That, I believe, starts with being the person I say I am as much publicly as I am privately. And so, for me that I always bucket [00:58:00] into authenticity, and I just want to be authentic in how I engage with my friends, people I work with, the ideas in the world, and that is actually really difficult because it requires a lot of work. It requires having to let go of a lot of things and make hard decisions. So it is humbly being authentic, or humbly pursuing authenticity. Michael Moore: I love that. It's all of it. It's career, it's family, it's what we're deciding. I lost my dad about a month ago, and 15 days after he passed away I got a letter in the mail that he had instructed his wife to send me.And it was just an amazing way of him communicating from the other side and saying I'm still going to be here. Because I was looking for that spiritually, before I was going to bed at night or tucking my daughters in and saying prayers, I was looking for “Dad, how are we going to communicate and continue? Because I've still got a lot to learn from you. And in that letter, he said, you are transitioning from being old in the young part of your life to being young in the old part of your life. I think that's what we're all going through right now is that we've done a lot of cool things. We've accomplished a lot or successful in life and love and business, but what are we going to do with that now? And so, your story today defines that. It's why Bob and I are so passionate about this podcast and just thank you for sharing. Bob Wierema: Yeah. Thank you, Brian. It's been awesome. I've learned a ton from you today, so I appreciate it.Brian Ferguson: Yeah. Again, it's humbling when guys like you ask me to come have a conversation, you're never quite sure what you might add, but I really appreciate it. Michael, I appreciate you sharing that story. Just as a closing thought here, when you deploy in the [01:00:00] military, you often you write a letter before you leave in the event you don't come back. But the idea of doing that proactively for one's kids and survive, I just love that. It's something, I just speak volumes about your own DNA and where you come from, but that it's going to take to talk to the back of my mind. And it's just such an awesome way to, to think about your own life and passing something on.No, I love that, man. I appreciate you sharing that. Michael Moore: Yeah. I mean, if the whole notion is, you know, put others before yourself, I mean, here he is battling ALS. He knows it's terminal. He knows he's got a certain amount of time and he's got the wherewithal to dictate a letter to me and my brother and my stepsister for that very purpose. It's just talking about defining moments. That's the kind of person I certainly want to be and the daughters I certainly want to raise. So again, thank you for your time and sharing. And this has been fantastic. Bob Wierema: We're going to have you back next year. Around the same time, we appreciate it. This was definitely a super enjoyable conversation.  Brian Ferguson: It was great to meet you. Michael Moore: Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of The Climb. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider subscribing. And if you know someone who you would think would enjoy the podcast, feel free to share this with them. Thanks again, and we'll see you on the next episode. 

Mike Singletary interviews with The Bears, Selena Gomez and her cooking show, and Arnold Schwartzenegger gets his first COVID vaccination.

Ashleigh Van Houten grew up as the only girl in a household of brothers, which lead her to watch a lot of wrestling and Arnold Schwartzenegger movies as a kid. She also liked watching the world’s strongest man competitions. From an early age, Ashleigh found herself intrigued by displays of strength and seeing what the human body can do. Along the way, Ashleigh became an author, speaker, podcast host, and self-proclaimed muscle nerd. She wrote a cookbook called It Takes Guts and is the host of the Muscle Maven Radio podcast. 

Wer oder was hat es uns 2020 angetan. Das Jahr haben wir viel Zeit Zuhause verbringen müssen - der introvertierten Nadine ist das am schwersten gefallen - und deshalb viel Gaming Auswahl gehabt unter welchen wir unsere Lieblinge gekürt haben. Wie das wertungsfrei funktioniert und welche Kategorien wir herangezogen haben hört ihr in einer seit längerem wieder einstündigen Folge. Frohes Neues und bleibt gesund oder werdet gesund wenn ihr gerade Krank seid.

Happy holidays from the Cinebums. In this episode, we start off with what we've been watching lately and then go WAY too in-depth on the Arnold Schwartzenegger absurd Christmas classic, Jingle All the Way. What we've been watching (00:00) Luke - Mank - Wild Things - Little Nicky - Stranger Than Fiction - The Trial of the Chicago 7 - Horace & Pete Jon - Mank - How To with John Wilson (HBO) - In the Mood for Love - Enter the Dragon - Police Story Jingle All the Way (46:45) Write to us! cinebumspod@gmail.com Follow us! @cinebums on Instagram Letterboxd! letterboxd.com/cinebums/ YouTube! CineBums on YouTube

Welcome! Good morning, everybody. I was on WTAG this morning with Jim Polito.  We discussed the Fake People Phenomenon and some of the positive and negative impacts it is having.  Then we got into Online shopping and how to do it securely. Here we go with Jim. For more tech tips, news, and updates, visit - CraigPeterson.com. ---  Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Craig Peterson: [00:00:00] One of the ways that people get scammed, and this isn't just our more senior citizens, but it's all the way down into their thirties and forties. By people who put up fake profiles on these dating sites. Hey, good morning, Craig, Peterson here. I was talking this morning on the air with Mr. Jim Polito, and we spoke about some of the major changes this year because of the lockdown that we have seen in the online business. What can small retailers do? What should you be doing when you're shopping online? Then we got into the whole "designed to deceive" thing with pictures. There's some, this crazy website out there that lets you create completely fake people. So all of that and more here, right now with Mr. Polito. Jim Polito: [00:00:56] One of our favorite guys, I'm talking about our tech talk guru, Craig Peterson. Good morning, sir. Craig Peterson: [00:01:04] Hey, good morning. Jim Polito: [00:01:06] How are you been? Craig Peterson: [00:01:08] I've been doing pretty well. Not sleeping so well the last couple of nights, but it might be all of that Turkey, I think. Jim Polito: [00:01:15] I thought that was supposed to make you sleep with that L-tryptophan, but maybe not. Craig Peterson: [00:01:20] Yeah. Jim Polito: [00:01:20] Maybe not. Listen you celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving and then this Thanksgiving, maybe it's just too much Thanksgiving. Craig Peterson: [00:01:28] That's true. It is a Thankful time. I'm so glad to be here. It's this crazy. We've got a great family and even though some of them were remote, it was still, it was a really nice day. Jim Polito: [00:01:41] I'm glad to hear that. All right, let's get a look at, well, first of all, let me just ask you off the cuff, cyber Monday.  Black Friday, they were really the same thing. There was a great increase in retail shopping, but it all came online, I guess. Craig Peterson: [00:02:00] Yeah. Yeah, no, it really did. This year. Their stores were down depending on the store, their traffic anywhere from about 60% to 75%. So it was online, but there wasn't the emphasis this year on those two days, you mentioned of course, black Friday, which has been historically where businesses make their money. They finally go black. And then cyber Monday for the online businesses, but that emphasis now is over the entire season. We saw a week or two weeks beforehand of these stores offering great deals or at least what appeared to be great deals. As we've talked about before, You really gotta shop around. Jim Polito: [00:02:45] To make sure that you're getting the right deal.  I would imagine that you feel this trend will continue right through the holiday. Craig Peterson: [00:02:53] Yeah. I've mentioned that a couple of times in my show as well, but yeah, the bottom line is this is just going to keep going. These retailers have to make the money. There are a few like Amazon, for instance really profited. More than that it's like half a million new employees roughly over at Amazon right now. They've really profited from this whole lockdown thing. Many other businesses, particularly the small ones have really suffered. It's hard for people to shop. For instance, when I talked about what are the things you should do or look for when you're shopping online? One of the things is to really look at the retailer. Can they be trusted with your data? I hate to say that because it's the small guys that have a hard time with it, at least so you'd think right. Equifax, TJX, and all these other big ones aside. It's difficult for them to come up in the search engine results. It's difficult for the small guys to be able to really compete on any sort of an even footing. Then you get these search engines like Google that really do weigh things towards some of their own properties. You get Amazon who weighs things. There've been suits that I believe Amazon just lost a suit over in Europe because when you do a search for something on Amazon, they will steer you towards their own products. And I've seen this before and you may not be aware of it, but they have dozens and dozens and dozens of their own private-labeled products. So when you're buying something, it could well be an Amazon thing and not from some small company. Jim Polito: [00:04:42] Hey, I bought it, but this wasn't like a private label. It was actually the Amazon label. I bought Amazon batteries because I needed some and they had their D cell batteries, the real big ones. Amazon. I don't know why had a limit on the number you could buy. So I bought some Rayovac and some of theirs, I maxed out on both of them cause I needed a bunch of batteries. It was for,  these window candles, you know? It was Amazon made. It wasn't like them being sneaky or it wasn't made, I'm sure it was made under license, but it was the name Amazon on it and it was a battery. Craig Peterson: [00:05:25] Some of those are really good. And I've done that before, too. I've got an Amazon power strip and I use these batteries that are rechargeable. It's a new generation. You can recharge them a thousand times. It's just incredible. They perform as well as a regular battery. So I use those very, very frequently and they're Amazon branded. I used to buy, what is it, Sanyo? I think was the original company Panasonic. Jim Polito: [00:05:55] Yup. Craig Peterson: [00:05:56] Rechargeable batteries. Jim Polito: [00:05:57] Interesting. All right. So the trend continues. Amazon will be sneaky. Speaking of sneaky, you sent me some stuff in the notes that was incredible. It's actually the first story in the notes. It's about designed to deceive making fake people. Now, why would I want to make a fake face? Not my face, but a fake face. Craig Peterson: [00:06:25] Well, I can tell you, I, you know, I've been doing internet for Oh, since 83, I think was I first got started in it. Wow. But here's the problem I've seen. Cause I started making commercial websites back when it was legal to do it. And that was September of 91. And we built some of the biggest properties. You might remember Big Yellow or Superpages, you know? Jim Polito: [00:06:54] Wow. Craig Peterson: [00:06:55] I put together the team and we wrote all of the software and we built the data center. We ran it, absolutely everything.  I've built websites for the last count it was over 5,000 businesses over the years. Not something I really do anymore. One of the problems we had with those websites is that people would say, okay, well either I need a group of people on my website here, or I want this face, or I want that face and you can go and you can buy these pictures of people and it's a model and they have to assign the release. Then once they've got that release signed, you can use it, but you still might get sued. I had more than one occasion where they came back to me and said, we have to change the picture because we were contacted by that person and that did not cover this type of usage of the picture. So it's very legitimate reasons. If you're going to put a face-up on a website, So now we can go to a website called generate photos, and you can buy a big person for as little as a buck, depending on how many you want. And you can go right now to a website for free called this person does not exist.com and get a completely computer-generated person. And you know what? It looks like a real person. So there are legitimate reasons for this, but as you can guess, Jim, there's illegitimate too. Jim Polito: [00:08:29] Uh, yeah. And you know, this is like that whole thing I see on Tik Tok. Like people actually themselves superimposing the face of say, Arnold Schwartzenegger. Over them. And it's like a combination of their face and Arnold, and it looks really reall. Craig Peterson: [00:08:51] Let's talk about another side of this. That's bad. It's very similar to what you're talking about, and that is people are being scanned all of the time, and one of the ways that people get scammed and this isn't just our more senior citizens, but all the way down into their thirties and forties. By people who put out fake files on these dating sites. And they started a relationship back and forth. And then, you know what? Jim had turns out that their mother needs surgery. It turns out that it's going to be like $5,000 and they just can't afford it. And this is part of a conversation they're really working with these people. These are crazy good Grifters, nowadays. And that's where we're concerned because now you can take one of these pictures. You can put it up on one of these websites, you can now start a conversation and this is going to lead to even more people being scammed. And I'm very worried. You're in the holidays is there's so many of us out there that are lonely and looking for. I have a little bit of companionship, even if it's just online the way they've dealt with it before is, and I'm sorry, I'm going on and on here, but this is something that really irks me, but the way they've dealt with this type of thing before is. You, you have someone who sets up a new profile. So there are people, usually volunteers at these dating sites who take that photo and use Google's reverse image search to see if that's a legitimate person, or if they took the picture from some other site out there. And then they'll say, okay, well, this is obviously not a real person because we found this picture on 50 other sites, and doesn't look legit. Well, there's something like this. They're not going to find a picture anywhere because it only costs them three bucks to buy one picture. Jim Polito: [00:10:48] Wow. Craig Peterson: [00:10:49] That doesn't exist. It's not a real person. Right. So I'm getting worried. Jim Polito: [00:10:54] Yeah. So I do that reverse image search. Right. Which I always do. And nothing comes up because it's unique. Craig Peterson: [00:11:05] Yeah. This is AI now. The other people that should be worried about this, and you mentioned the videos is Actors, right. Who are out there because now they can really take anybody who physically can move around and do all of the actions that they want, and basically do it in a green suit and then paste any base they want to on it, including these types of faces. So you'll see, in the future, these movie companies having fully computer-generated people from every angle, everything about them. There will be I don't know if they're going to copyright and trademark it patented. I don't know what they'll do, but now they don't have to worry about that. Actor or actress aging. Because they can always use them and they can generate that say says at 80 years old and that same face at 20 years old. It's really going to change everything. Jim Polito: [00:12:09] Yeah, I know. I mean, the set, the difficult thing is, um, For politicians too, cause somebody could ruin your you're running for a race and somebody could, uh, put you, um, as a politician, into a compromising situation, release that video. And as Mark Twain said, you know, what is it? A lie makes it all the way around the world before the truth gets up out of bed. Um, Craig, this is fascinating. So you've got the show on Sundays. From 11 o'clock great show, um, that everybody should watch on and listen to on TAG and HYN. And then, uh, if people want to reach you, what do they do? Craig Peterson: [00:12:52] Well, the easiest way is go to my website@craigpeterson.com. I answered questions every day that people just email me.  I'm more than glad to do that. Just email me ME@craigpeterson.com. Jim Polito: [00:13:06] Craig, always a pleasure and thank you so much, sir. We'll talk to you next week. I hope you get some sleep. Craig Peterson: [00:13:12] Thanks. Bye-bye Jim Polito: [00:13:14] All right. A final word. When we return, you're listening to the Jim Polito show, your safe space. Craig Peterson: [00:13:20] You guys might be interested to know that I was on WBZ. They started making some little news things with me, as well as WRKO too. The big powerhouses in the Boston market. So that was fun yesterday. Hopefully, we'll be able to just a little bit more of that, get this word out to people, but what they should be doing. I got a great little note too, from one of our listener's Guy, and he was saying, okay, after yesterday, Monday, I'm going to have to check off of the pictures in the office, make sure their firmware is up-to-date. So another note, really good thing here, hoping to raise awareness and telling people what they can do in order to get. A little bit safer in this online world. Take care of everybody and we should be back tomorrow. Bye-bye. ---  More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

While giving thanks to you, our listeners, we share your Thanksgiving stories:  Serving bagged giblets in stuffing, how making gravy from a smoked turkey is like getting blood from a stone, leaving the thanksgiving table in tears, a Spudsgiving in New York.  There’s something for everyone to relate to in our Thanksgiving Special. Have you met the hostess who puts your coat on the back of your chair while you’re still eating pie? Also, planting peas in November,  harvesting corn salad and the squirrel is back and thinks he/she is Arnold Schwartzenegger. Sorry, we are confused about the gender of this squirrel but does it matter? No, it doesn’t.  We’re grateful for you, dear listeners. If you do the cooking, we’ll bring the sides. Happy Thanksgiving.Visit our website for pix, more info and Upside Down DictionaryClick here to write to us! We would love to  hear your garden stories & Q's!

Jeff Reekers joined Aircall when it was a small startup looking to break into the US market. Here's how he's built a marketing strategy that fueled 15X growth in just three years. This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Aircall CMO shares the marketing strategies he's used to help the company achieve extraordinary growth in just three years. When he first joined Aircall, Jeff was one of just two marketers on the team. Now, the marketing department alone has 30 employees.  Jeff shares why the company's international-first approach, along with its emphasis on partnerships, allowed Aircall to scale quickly. Check out the full episode, or read the transcript below, for details. Resources from this episode: Visit the Aircall website Connect with Jeff on LinkedIn Give Jeff a call on his Aircall number at (646) 712-9381 Learn more about the Revenue Collective Transcript Kathleen (00:00): Welcome back to the inbound success podcast. I'm your host Kathleen Booth. And this week, my guest is Jeff Reekers, who is the CMO of Aircall. Welcome to the podcast Jeff. Jeff (00:25): Thanks Kathleen. It's a pleasure to be here. Kathleen (00:27): I'm excited to talk with you. Aircall has such a fascinating growth story and you know, one marketer to the other, I'm always interested to kind of try and pull back the curtain and see how the, not to use too many analogies, but see how the sausage is made. So, but before we dive into the Aircall story maybe you could talk a little bit about yourself, what your background is and, and how you wound up in your role at Aircall. Jeff (00:53): Yeah, sure. So I've had a few different experiences before joining Aircall. I started my career going way back. I'm from the Bay area originally. I moved out to New York city to start my career originally, didn't really know what I wanted to do, had a economics major and I was coming out and hoping to do grad school at the time. And ended up getting a job at Forbes, which is where I started my career. Mostly doing copywriting, ad copy, a little bit of journalistic ghost writing when I was asked to do it. And it was an amazing experience and it got me introduced into marketing. But interestingly, one of the articles I had to write was something called best of the web, but essentially you know, interviews with entrepreneurs we're getting started in the New York city area. Jeff (01:50): And somebody I came across in my research for that was a company called Lawline, which was an online education startup for attorneys who needed to recertify their license. And it was just like the emerging time when you remember like real time player that they, that was a, that was a thing. And the videos were just starting to go online. And so this was a first step towards online education for attorneys who all have to recertify their licenses. And we were the first to do that, to move online. That was an amazing experience because it was just from the start and we scaled and we grew, and, you know, I had that traditional experience of kind of doing everything in a company from being joining it early. And I realized immediately that that startup life, that was exciting to me and having a real impact was exciting to me. And so that was sort of my springboard into the the startup world. And I got deeper into marketing thereafter headed demand at a few different companies. Think HR, Handshake, which was recently acquired by Shopify. And then I joined on with with Aircall about four years ago now. Kathleen (03:03): Awesome. And what does Aircall do for those who are not familiar with it? Jeff (03:06): Yes. We're a business, a hundred percent cloud based phone system for support and sales teams. So focused on the SMB. So any inbound, any teams that are receiving inbound inquiries, e-comm companies, whatever it might be, that need to efficiently route calls and know who their customers are before they call them, or the sales organizations that are looking for a productivity boost or to have better insights into the customers that they're calling. There are two main focus points. Kathleen (03:34): Great. And the reason I was so excited to talk with you is that you came in at an earlier stage with the company. It wasn't really all that long ago, three, four years ago. And at the time how big was the company? Jeff (03:51): I have a trouble remembering the exact number of employees. We had around 40, 40, 50 employees somewhere around there and you know, a couple million in revenue at that point. Kathleen (04:03): Yeah. And, and today, how big is the company? Jeff (04:08): Larger than that. We're we've, we've gone from, you know, that stage closer to the $50 million mark. So we've grown quite well over that time. And we've expanded into the U S, which is essentially one of the initial points of myself joining on in the company was helped build out the U S and we scaled other regions as well across the, across the country. And now we're at about 350 probably going on 400 pretty soon employees. Kathleen (04:39): Wow. And if I understand correctly, like I'm not a big math person, but I try to, I try to do math in my head if I'm doing it correctly. It sounds like you, as a company, you grew by about 15 times in three years. Is that roughly accurate? Jeff (04:55): Yes. I think that sounds, I think that sounds pretty accurate. Yeah. Kathleen (04:58): Wow. That's unbelievable. And, you know, selfishly, like, I, I want to know, I want to know what went into that, cause that's, that's such a crucial stage of growth. I'm also a startup marketer. I love the startup world, right. That's like the Holy grail that everybody wants to experience. You come in when the company is smaller and you ride that rocket ship and you're a part of that story and you contribute to the growth. So, you know, from a marketing standpoint, like, I'll just turn it over to you. Maybe you could kind of set the stage and talk about like what you did in the beginning and some of the key leavers that led to the growth of the company. Jeff (05:31): I think, I think what's important to realize is one is yes, I like to believe that there's been things on the marketing and we've done that have had a major impact here, but even going before that there's, there were some inherent aspects of Aircall that stood out at the time that I joined, even though we were small, that that indicated we had a really positive opportunity, big, really big opportunity for growth. And a friend and former colleague and great, just start up mind, his name is Preston Clark, I remember he wrote an article years ago about I think it was how to become a VP of sales in SaaS. And he wrote about uncovering the hidden opportunities or how to, how to find those small companies that were just going to take the, the I'm really going to explode it in the next stage. Jeff (06:22): And so there were, there were some things I recall when I joined our call that really made me feel that this was something special. The first was there was an early product market fit. We sold there was traction in a very specific segment of the market, which is SMB market. There was inbound demand for the product already. And there was positive, you know, positive growth. And you could see that from an early stage, there were some things that had to be improved on certain customer segments. We had to go further into further develop who our real customers were, all these things, but there was something, there were part of us put out in the world and people were finding it, signing up for it, sharing with their friends. And that was a really positive sign. The second was, we were just getting started in a new market, which is the U S and so we had proven traction in Europe and we were just starting on the U S side. Jeff (07:21): And so that was very exciting to me. Cause you could see the ability for the product to adapt over into the U S market. And third was probably most important because it's the sustainability of the company is Olivier, our CEO wanted to build a great company to work for and you can't really accomplish what you like to accomplish. If that's not true, is this harder to stick with a company it's harder to be there for four or five, six years or for the long haul, if you don't have that. And those, all those things were really true. First off at Aircall that I think helped us. And that, that to me was the foundational part that all their marketing tactics or strategies or how we sold it, came from that base in a way. Kathleen (08:11): Yeah. That I love your point about wanting to build a great company because it is true, you know, to support growth that fast. I I've, I've owned a company in the past. I've been a CEO and any CEO can tell you that growth can either be the greatest thing that ever happened to you, or it can be the thing that kills your company, you know, and growth is the thing that kills your company. If you're not building that, that strong culture, like a place where people really want to be where they're inherently self motivated and excited about the mission and all that. So it's interesting that you brought that up because it's seen as something outside of marketing, but I think it's, it all goes back to that philosophy of like you companies only have customer service to the extent that they have happy employees is sort of the same principle. Jeff (08:57): Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. And you know, from there, it was from there, we grew up our, our strategy and we scaled fairly logically. So we had a good presence already in France and other parts of Europe and we wanted to expand those, get into a few new markets. There's Germany, Spain, UK, that we wanted to grow more aggressively. And we had some early ground already coming from a few other regions like Australia. And then we, you know, we really needed to focus on, on us and let that expand as well. So we had an international strategy as well from the start, which I think was very advantageous to us because we were able to spread very quickly and have an infrastructure that that was global from day one and... Kathleen (09:51): Now just a clarification. When you joined the company, how many people, including yourself, were in the marketing team? Jeff (09:56): There was one other person. Kathleen (09:59): Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Were you the first US hire on the marketing team? Jeff (10:03): No, we were just starting our us office and our one other employee was also in the US. Kathleen (10:10): Okay. So they, so the company had grown outside of the US without having like fulltime in-house marketers. Is that? Jeff (10:18): Yes. Correct. So we had I think we had a couple people writing content local content out there. But really our first marketer was in the U S and Olivier, our CEO, was very adamant about going to the US market very early in the company's history. So it didn't become this sort of you know, stepchild or the hated stepchild or the always in the back seat or something like that. And so was very adamant about building and moved from Paris to New York city. And so he started the first office out here with a few other, a few other employees that were hired soon after that, including our first marketer who's a sort of a junior generalist at the time. Kathleen (10:58): So that's okay. So, so you come in your, did you have a background in international marketing at all? Jeff (11:05): That was pretty new to me. That was pretty new. Only other really other English speaking countries, you know, UK, Australia but not real dense in across the European markets was that intimidating was exciting to me, to me that was exciting. And that was it was the perfect, that was the perfect balance because there was something to offer on both ends. You know, I was going to get to know those markets extremely well. And at the same time my first and foremost focus was how do we do this in the US? How do we replicate this in the US? So I was allowed in a lot of the opportunity to really focus on the U S for the first six months or so, because that was objective number one, build pipeline in the US. So I didn't care about product, I mean, there was no care about or no focus on product marketing. No we weren't yet on post, you know, post sale customer marketing. We cared about it a lot, but Kathleen (12:09): Got it. You can't boil the ocean. Right. So what did you start with? Like, how did you come in? You've got good bones is how I would describe it, right? Like you said, you've got great product market fit. You have the start of a really great company and you've got inbound interest. So you've got all the good bones, like, what do you start with? Jeff (12:27): Yeah, there were two things. One, our product demos really well. It's a beautiful product. Ease of use. The design is really what stood out as a differentiator. So first was what makes this product different? And, you know, I came from a background where I had set up phone systems in the past. One of the many things I did at Lawline of all my jobs there was I set up our company phone system. It was ShoreTel. It's actually a company called N5 networks, which was acquired by ShoreTel soon after, but I set up that system. And so it was like, you know, it's a baby boy product. He still had the landline, phones, everything plugged into some thing in the, in the back room. Every time I went to go troubleshoot it, I was unplugging wires and shutting off the internet accidentally. Jeff (13:12): I didn't know how to train anybody cause it was just difficult to use. And so I recall my first experience using Aircall and it was just, I signed up for my own trial. It was just this wow moment because what took me weeks to set up, I already had this, I was already set up in the app. Like I signed up for trial. I had a phone number. I signed up for a Zimbabwe phone number. I was adding my teammates, I had everything set up. And so to me that was this wow moment where I really felt that from the side that I, when I was a consumer, I could empathize with that. And so first thing I really, we really thought about what is, how do we just show that to people right off the bat? How do we get that out? And so, you know, we've always focused on trial experiences and trying to get people to the point of a demonstration. And so we focused a lot on events, inviting people into our office, holding community events. We'd demo people and show the product at, at those at those events. I used to do a lot with webinars, like really bottom of funnel webinars, product driven, and just get it out there and get some early customers coming in the door. Kathleen (14:27): And when you say events, did you, do you mean like local events or describe to me? Jeff (14:32): We did both. We would do some trade shows. Really costly. So we were cautious, cautious of doing too much there, but yeah, we would do local events, invite people into our office and gather 50, 60 people in the sales or CX community, holding events. Do a little bit of a community around it. And then eventually we were able to follow up with them, you know, show them a demo, something like that. And it gets some early cost get, just get a few customers in the door, essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And then that would say that scaled into more questions. Okay. So we've got some things working there. Then the more challenges came with, how do we really scale and grow that more quickly? And I think one thing that's been very unique to Aircall in our marketing has been our focus on partnerships and integrations. Jeff (15:28): And so by far the biggest driver of growth in North America has been that we've partnered with very strong companies to integrate the product for one and then to drive co-marketing and co-selling efforts. And so how do we build a brand in North America? Well, easiest way to do that was to try to attach ourselves to HubSpot and Intercom and Zendesk and companies that were already doing a great job. If we could just attach ourselves to that, that would be fantastic. And so we worked really hard to build integrations, drive up app rankings on their app exchanges, do co-marketing efforts where we did all the work. Just hope that the, let us slap the logo on there and, and help distribute it. We worked to get into onboarding emails. So it came out from a HubSpot, for example, you know, like you signed up for HubSpot, they'd recommend Aircall, one of the apps to sign up for. And so we just started attaching ourselves to these brands through product integration and then co-marketing efforts and it kind of organically grew from there. Kathleen (16:38): So what I think there's a lot of people that talk about co-marketing and talk about channels and things like that. Can you talk a little bit more about what it takes to, to really make that partnership successful? Like you talked about doing a lot of the work, like dissect that a little bit for me. Jeff (16:56): Well, it has to start with the need. And so we tried to go beyond the co-marketing was a way that helped promote a dual need that their customers also had. And so the integration product part is really critical. And I think, I think that's been a core thing is that the product and the marketing are really integrated at Aircall. And they always have been whether it's that trial experience and getting the customer to a wow moment, whether it's being able to have a, an amazing UI UX that we can demo really well. Or if it's on the integration front so that we are partnering with companies, building integrations into their product, to help them solve a problem. And then leveraging that from a marketing standpoint, how do we comarket with them? And so, you know, HubSpot, for example, timing is great. Jeff (17:46): They're building out their CRM system, a sales hub, soon after they started building out support hub. And what's something you needed, you go from Salesforce to HubSpot, you need a dialer on top of that. And so we built that integration and we solved that problem for them. So somebody goes from Salesforce to HubSpot, I'm a HubSpot account executive, and I'm getting an inquiry of, okay, I'm using, you know, NewVoiceMedia with, with Salesforce. I need something new because you guys don't integrate with HubSpot, or you guys don't integrate with NewVoiceMedia. What can I use? They, and eventually we got top of mind with the HubSpot team so that, Hey, we promote Aircall and that's fine. Kathleen (18:24): And how do you get top of mind? Like what, what, any advice? Yeah. Like what would be your advice for somebody who's just starting that process? Jeff (18:31): A lot of work. We, we put a lot of focus on our partnerships from both the, we have that team. That's been a part of marketing, but we focused on the partnership itself, relentlessly. And so first to get one customer and do unscalable things, you know, if we got, when we were trying to really grow on certain apps with certain apps like HubSpot or a customer with it, with a K or a Intercom, those first customers, they were very meaningful. They, they have an issue. You've got to hop on it immediately. If you just got up to go above and beyond to show that, okay, I've referred over, you know, Aircall on top of HubSpot and, or I have an app that comes into attaches in the HubSpot. We have to know that if I'm the HubSpot team, I'm probably going to get a question about this integration of it's not working. Jeff (19:24): And so if that sort of stuff comes up, you have to solve it immediately. Give HubSpot a really good experience from your side. Let them know the partnership's valuable. Gain traction over time with getting good reviews you know, lots of installs. Helping them. If you think of HubSpot, for example, they had a lot of focus on growing their ecosystem. One part of growing their ecosystem was showing that apps are getting installed. So how do we get as many apps installed as humanly possible on top of that ecosystem, regardless of whatever we have to do, and we can get their attention in that fashion. So we really focused on just hustle, really? How do we, how do we get a lot of installs? How do we drive an amazing experience with those partners? How do we solve a need for them? And then eventually if we can service them enough and give enough value, we can be top of mind for them. Kathleen (20:16): Was there anything in particular that you can point to that really drove the growth in installs? Jeff (20:25): There's a number of things that say there's no, there's no one magic thing. I can't think of one magic, you know, activity we did that that opened the flood Gates. It was just a lot of work. It was getting one, doing one-on-one on outbound on just a specific focus for three months, sign up many customers in the segments. It was SEO, you know, searching for what competitive terms around our partner plus phone system or call center or apps on that exchange. Could we do it was positioned our website in a certain way that facilitate people to go towards one direction. So let's just, a lot of activities, you know, they all come, they all sort of compounded. I think that the main thing is that we, we focus that as a core part of the strategy and the product was solid there. And so we, we combine the, the marketing effort and the product effort together. I think that was the, you know, that was sort of the kicker. And then was just a lot of activities after that. Kathleen (21:32): And you talked about also one of the things that was key was really getting a lot of reviews in their partner marketplace, if you will, or their app marketplace. Were there any strategies in particular that you use that you found to be successful for getting those reviews? Cause I've, I've been in the position of having to get reviews before, and sometimes it can feel like, like pulling teeth, trying to get people they'll, they'll say yes, yes, I'll do it. And then they never do. Or, you know, like how did you, how did you approach that? Jeff (22:01): Just pay people. An email and pay then a $25 gift card. This is pretty much our only tactic. Kathleen (22:09): Yeah. Well, Hey, if it works, if it works. Yeah, Jeff (22:12): Yeah, yeah. Pay for the review. Kathleen (22:15): And did you, did you invest in any like review site marketing outside of your partner relationships? Like, did you do any G2 Crowd or any well now? Jeff (22:25): Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'd say on top of the partner, which, which has always been still is one of our key drivers. We've always had an intense focus on inbound as well. So review sites have always been a core part of that. And you know, we could, we could control that. And so we tried to look at like, what are the things in the world that we can control? We have customers, lot of them are happy. We can control number of reviews that we have on G2 and Capterra. We just have to hustle and do it. And so we focused heavily on the first, the app review sites where we thought we could gain SMB market share, which is what we were more focused on at the moment, really small business. And we focused on Get App, Capterra. Sort of winning the awards for those those categories or those those platforms promoted them and so on. And then eventually we would spend money on them to help promotions as well. Kathleen (23:23): Nice. So, all right. I totally took you down a winding path there cause I love, I just like getting into details. So you formed these partner relationships and that really began to kind of like heat up your, your lead gen and customer acquisition. I'm going to turn it back over to you now. Jeff (23:41): Yeah. We did it with HubSpot, Intercom. We had a great with, still do, and that makes sense. Aircall plus Intercom, you've got chat and phone together. So I'm really focused on co-marketing with them. Co-Marketing calendars with them. We developed a couple of unique products with them as well. We have one product called Aircall now. It's not something we still actively promote, but I had a ton of buzz around it at the time, which was you could convert an Intercom chat directly into a phone call and that phone call would go directly to the rep that you were chatting with at the time. So when you got really innovative with the, those types of activities, and then we turn that into an app ecosystem. So initially we hustled, we built all the, all the apps. Jeff (24:28): We tried to create partnerships with them. And then at some point along that growth cycle, we thought to ourselves, well, we could be that company that other companies are building into and then trying to get leads off of with us and partner with us. And then we could do lead sharing in that way. And so at some point we turned that into an open marketplace for apps that could be built on top of the Aircall market, on top of the air call API. We publish them on our app exchange and that's something we've been focused on the last year and a half, two years or so. And we've had 60, 70 companies build out apps on top of us and that's scaling quite well. And so we kind of use that as a, okay, we had to really hustle, get it done. We still do that. How do we enable other companies to do that also? Create a flywheel effect from that. Kathleen (25:21): And now you're in the opposite position of people wanting to, whereas you were bending over backwards to make a relationship work with HubSpot, hopefully now there are people bending over backwards to make a relationship work with you. Jeff (25:31): Yes, it's both. It's both ways still. Yeah, we grew those out. Gorgeous customer. I think I can name many, many partners that we've had that have been really strong for us. And that's been a big driver in other areas, you know, inbound, outbound. Kathleen (25:49): When did you add outbound into the mix? How soon? Jeff (25:53): Early? Pretty early. Kathleen (25:56): And did you insource, like, did you have your own team doing the outbound or did you outsource that? How did you handle it? Jeff (26:03): In house? From the start and different regions respond? You know, the international part is very interesting with with outbounds in certain regions. You know I think of France, for example. The response rates are just 3X, 2X higher than they are in, in the US for example. And so we've grown them everywhere. We've had SDRs, we have an SDR team in France for Germany, Spain, for UK, for APAC and North American team as well, although it has slightly different oddities and unique points to the local markets to grow. But yeah, we, we scaled that out and built it early. We want to do it in house and I found it particularly valuable, not just from the pipeline generation standpoint, but early on when we were first starting to go to market. I mean, that's how you get to know and experiment who your customers are. You can try different segments out, you can iterate, you can see what messages that respond, that you get are being responded to. Kathleen (27:16): And did that team sit in marketing or in sales? Jeff (27:21): It sat in, it sat in sales. Yeah, it sat in sales, but worked really closely with myself. And there was a brief period of time, again, this is like startup sort of life, I guess, but there's a brief period of time in 2018, late 2017 and most of 2018 that I headed up the North American sales team. And so it's kind of a blurry question because it was all coming in to me. Kathleen (27:46): So that, you know, it's so funny because I always say like, every marketer should work as, as a salesperson at some point in their career, it makes you such a better marketer. Jeff (27:54): Yeah, totally. And there's no better way to get to, yeah, to get to know the customer, to understand what messages are resonating. I mean, the, the campaigns we're running to figure out what what pockets of customers are responding, what messages are they responding to? Kathleen (28:12): And to know how, like what salespeople need from marketing. Jeff (28:15): Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's, that's, that's how we figured out what integrations to build. That's what we figured out. The messaging on the website, and we're still using a lot of that copy today. And a lot of the information that we found throughout balance is, is, you know, actively in our, our our marketing today. Kathleen (28:31): Nice. Now I really want to hear like, kind of the parallel story of all of this is happening. This is what you're doing from a strategy standpoint. How did your team evolve? Because you joined and it was you and one other person and how many marketers are there on your team right now? Jeff (28:51): There's approximately a 30 marketers. Kathleen (28:53): Oh my gosh. Jeff (28:55): And then we've got another 10 or so in channeled partnership. Kathleen (28:59): Talk to me about like, how did that evolve? Like what positions did you add first? Jeff (29:06): Yeah, so we're very demand focused. Most of our early hires were in demand. I like that mentality when you're first starting because demand can hack, not a word I'm using frequently anymore, but demand can kind of piece together and hack product marketing to a degree in messaging. We could figure out contents because you have to answer those parts to get the, to get pipeline generated. So by default, you have to experiment, you have to figure things out. You could start the other side and really focus on product marketing and messaging did not solve the demand part, not piece everything together. And so I think first off was what am I okay. Being okay. And what would I like to be really great with? And we really want to be good on demand, acquisition marketing, build up our SEO strategy, figure out what channels could really work for us. Jeff (30:08): And then have an experimental mindset when it came to customer cohorts, you know messaging, all those activities. And so our first hire was in demand for North America. We hired multiple content marketers at that point to build out our SEO which you put a lot of effort into. We then hired we, then continued on events cause we have been marketing early on was, as I mentioned, was working well for us. We hired on events. We started adding on partner account managers to handle our partners. And it, it kind of scaled from there. Eventually we got to the point where everything was being housed in the US and I started seeing a huge imbalance at that point. We're putting all this emphasis on the US and then just trying to translate things for Europe which was a mistake. Jeff (31:03): You can't just translate content and call it localized you know, localized market ready work. And so we then, one of our first hires then went out to Paris to lead our growth efforts in Europe. And she ended up building out a pretty large team. That team was actually larger than the US team at this point because we localized everything, we built original content for Spanish market, for the German market and so on. And so we've really focused heavily on that content marketing portion there. And then I would say we delayed product marketing till about hire 15 or so, a year and a half year. And I hired our first product marketer. It was too late, but I think at that point, for every role that we've had, and, you know, I think we, before we expand into a new area, if it's demand focused, want to know this is what to double down on. Jeff (32:00): If it's not demand focused, then I really want to feel some pressure. Like we have to have it, we can't hustle any harder than we're hustling. And if we don't have this, it's really going to hold us back versus versus getting into that mentality when you start to scale, which is you know, like, Oh, we really need customer marketing, but really nobody's, we could do customer marketing if we just prioritized it internally, or, you know, it gave somebody a new opportunity or figured out a way to move pieces around. And so he, we brought product marketing on second. We brought operations on third. We don't have a director of operations though. We've kind of more leveraged our revenue operations team for that. And then more recently we brought on brand marketing as well. So if I go through our lineage, it was demand, content, and then doing that same thing in Europe. Product marketing next. It's really help us figure out what cohorts and sort of scaling different verticals, enabling sales to go up market and these activities. And then starting to bring on brand managers to think about, you know, our, our, how we are competitively different in terms of our style, our tone of voice, all these activities that we have. We have a good longterm vantage point of our our strategy. Kathleen (33:30): How many direct reports do you have today? Jeff (33:33): I have, let's see. It's it's changed a little bit recently, so I have eight at the moment. Kathleen (33:41): Yeah. That's about, I feel like that's about the max that you can have before it starts to feel like crazy. You're in one on ones all, all week long. Jeff (33:50): Yeah. Yeah. So those teams are North American demand, European demand, product marketing, brands. We have an ecosystem head person that runs our marketplace, that new apps that are installed on our marketplace. We have a head of developer evangelism as well, who's one of our cofounders and he's responsible for essentially the marketing for developers to come build stuff on top of Aircall. And then our head of brand as well. And then the last two that sort of fringe with our North American team, which would likely now report into marketing longterm would be our partnerships head and head of channel sales. Kathleen (34:31): Okay. All right. So I could talk to you forever and there are some more questions I have, but you are a very busy man clearly. So the question I have for you is if you were talking to somebody who right now was in the same shoes you were in three years ago, like coming in as the first, you know, head of marketing and like, and it's one or two people in the company and they, their goal is to scale the way you have. What advice would you give them? Jeff (35:00): Well, I think there's, there's two seemingly separate concepts here. One is we really focused on what was, where could we find growth efficiently? Testing it, and then doubling down, while also placing some big bets along the way that were going to be necessary for two years down the line. And that's really critical because if we didn't do the big bets that weren't going to pay off for a long time, that we couldn't really test, we wouldn't have continued to grow. We would have grown in the short term, but not the long term. And so I think what we had done, and still do successfully is think of both the short and long term, an example. I think all the things I was mentioning earlier were sort of short term. That testing mentality and growing off of that, but then longterm, you, we had to answer some difficult questions. Jeff (35:56): We've got to, we invested a lot in certain integrations and partnerships like Salesforce. We invested in channel which it was a lot of work to build up a channel team and direct sales. It's a lot of work to put into our marketplace and get apps to get built on top of the marketplace. On top of that marketplace, who was, are things that weren't going to payback for two years down the line, and we think they're going to work. But you have to place enough of those and and structure it in a way that you're okay if a couple of them don't work out fully and that the upside is going to be there. A couple of them do really, really well. Kathleen (36:37): And you also, I would assume, need to have a CEO that has the same attitude. Cause it's one thing for you to feel like I'm going to place big bets and know that that's a big bet and it may or may not pan out. But like, I feel like that's the tricky thing as head of marketing. You know, there are lots of marketers who see the value in that, but if they're not really aligned with the C suite on that approach, then that can really backfire. Jeff (37:01): Yes. Yes, totally. And I think that goes back to that original point though, which is what were the, what's the pre joining the company components that indicated this had an opportunity to be kind of special and the mindset of the CEO was a critical component of that. Kathleen (37:20): Yeah. Wow. Well, like I said, I could pick your brain for hours, but I'm going to shift gears cause there's two questions I always ask all of my guests. So before we wrap up, I want to make sure I ask you. The first is the podcast is all about inbound marketing. So I'm curious if there's a particular company or individual that you think is really kind of setting the gold standard for what it means to do inbound marketing well these days. Jeff (37:44): Well, I, can't not say Intercom because I just love Intercom and I'm not just saying that because of our partnership. But, but when I originally joined, I remember our, our one of, one of the members of our board interviewed me and asked me if, if we could build one company, who would you build it after? Emulate? Intercom was my go to response. Just love their brand or their content strategy. And it's just they're, they're, they're quite inspiring. I think they've always done a good job. Individual named Shane Murphy runs their marketing now. He's quite fantastic. So also love the work that there's a few answers to this from different ways. Like I love the sort of mojo that Gong has built. I find that inspiring. Drift's done a really cool job on, on social media and there's definitely parts to take out of their playbook for what they've done, what they've created. I also think that Gorgias a company that we work closely with who's in the help desk space does a really fantastic job of having that growth sort of, you know, hacker mindset. So there's a lot of companies that I think do a really admirable job on the inbound side. Kathleen (39:00): Nice. I like those examples. You are not the first person to mention Intercom, so it's not just that he's biased. There's definitely something there. Cause I've heard people say that before. Second question. A lot of the marketers I talk to say their biggest challenge is just keeping up with everything in digital marketing, cause it changes so quickly these days. How do you personally stay up to date on, on all of it? Jeff (39:23): I mean, I read as much as humanly possible. Both on marketing and not on marketing, I find a lot of inspiration from, you know, non-marketing books. Like there's gosh, whether it's like bio's or, you know, stories of generals and strategies type of books, I really, really enjoy. There's a book called Thinking in Systems, which is Donna Meadows, which is just a fantastic book about logical mindsets, like logical thinking and the systems that can help, can basically create the infrastructure for anything. And I find that to be a really fascinating book as, as it applies to marketing because you know, marketing is an insanely complex system as it grows kind of logically about it. You can, you can tie things back and I, I get a lot of inspiration books like that. Jeff (40:21): And then outside of, it's more, more specific direct marketing related. I mean, any of the sort of traditional blogs, whether it's Saastr or whether it's Tom Tungaz, whether it's your traditional like SEO land, you know, SEMrush, those types of things. I love, I love inbound. I love SEO. And so I try to read as much as possible on those activities. And I'd say also Revenue Collective. I mean, gosh, I don't know what I've learned more just like life as a whole, but also marketing, because you have every great marketer on the planet in that group and you can post messages to them. So I'm giving, I'm giving a shout out to the Revenue Collective, but gosh, that's how we met. Kathleen (41:11): That's how we met. Jeff (41:11): Yeah. I think that's the community where I've just learned so so much. And you can just go through the logs and read old history of conversations in there and that's, that's an evening of reading right there. Kathleen (41:21): Yeah, that's great. I would second that. So if you like autobiographies, as you said, I don't know if you've already read this, but my one hot tip for you, and I am shamelessly copying this from David Cancel at Drift because he's the one that I got this tip from, read the autobiography of Arnold Schwartzenegger. Actually has some of the most amazing like marketing and business and life lessons. I was totally captivated by it and I mean, that would not be who I would normally pick up a book off the shelf by, so yeah, it's great. Jeff (41:55): Yeah, I will, I will. I'm gonna play this part for my wife because she knows I have a fascination with him. Kathleen (42:03): Have you read it yet? Have you read it? Jeff (42:06): I read like the first half of it, I have not read the completion of it. Actually. It was Audible. Like I was doing it on my own. Kathleen (42:11): I did, I listened to it when I worked out, actually I would listen to it while I was lifting weights and I'd be like, okay. I mean, if Arnold can do what he did, I could lift 15 pounds. Right. So it's so good. I loved that book. But anyway, enough about Arnold. So if somebody is listening to this and wants to learn more about Aircall or connect with you online, what's the best way for them to do that? Jeff (42:35): Well I always have to say this. An easy way is to call me on my Aircall number, (646) 712-9381. And you'll get a, you get a nice voicemail experience there as well as if you call it, then I've got a lot of lines. So I can, I can, I can distribute that and not ruin my you know, my, my cell phone for, Kathleen (42:59): I think you're the first guest I've ever had who's given out their phone number. So I love this. Jeff (43:04): That's it? That's it. You don't, you don't, don't email me. You can LinkedIn me, I suppose, because it's easy to, to find my my LinkedIn. But yeah, it's just drop an Aircall and that will get the message and tell me how to contact you back. Kathleen (43:19): Cool. I think everybody should test that out. That's fantastic. All right. Well, if you're listening and you enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you would head to Apple podcasts or the platform of your choice and leave the podcast, preferably a five star review, but of course, whatever review you think it merits cause that's how other folks find us. And if you know somebody else who's doing amazing inbound marketing work, please tweet me at @workmommywork, because I would love to interview them. That's it for this week. Thank you so much, Jeff. Jeff (43:47): Thank you, Kathleen.

The Batman and Dune Delayed, Ratched, South Park Pandemic Special, A Whisker Away, Jamie Foxx back as Electro, Iman Vellani cast as Ms. Marvel, Regal Theaters closing again?, Borat 2, The Witches, Brave New World, Welcome to Dissecting This Fiction! It's episode 61, so come join along as co-hosts Jessica and Steven go over the latest in movies, tv shows, and games. What's On The Exam Table? In gaming, October brings another batch of games to Xbox Games with Gold and PlayStation Plus. EA Play gets an official release date on Game Pass, but will the Xbox Series X have enough internal storage to download these games with a total of 802 gb? PS5 might even have less with a rumored 664gb of storage. PSN temporarily gave out Bloodborne for free. Insomniac gives the 2018 Spider-Man Remaster a facelift. Yakuza Like A Dragon gets delayed, but only on PlayStation 5. Godfall won’t be playable offline. In tv and movie news, we give new releases for October on the big streaming services. Cobra Kai gets a teaser for season 3 and renewal for season 4 while GLOW gets cancelled on Netflix. CBS All Access plans a rebranding as Paramount Plus. Miramax plans a tv series for The Gentlemen and Mimic. Monster Hunter gets a teaser and early release in December, after being delayed to 2021. Avatar 2 and 3 are almost complete, just ask Arnold Schwartzenegger. M. Knight Shyamalan reveals the title of his new movie. Amazon’s Lord of the Rings series resumes in New Zealand. Jamie Foxx sparks attention with his return to Marvel as Electro. Ms. Marvel casts Iman Vellani as the lead. Meanwhile, Disney announced a live-action The Lion King sequel. Disney Plus adds group viewing to the service and D23 gets a 2022 schedule. Lastly, could Regal be shutting down theaters in the U.S. after plans to close in the U.K.? WB certainly doesn’t plan to wait and see. Dune and The Batman have already been delayed into the next 2 years. In trailers, we talk about Borat 2 soon to be on Amazon Prime, The Witches hitting HBO Max on October 22, and the Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War Zombies reveal trailer. In reviews, we revisit Jurassic Park in the DLC for Jurassic World Evolution. Give our final thoughts on Brave New World, a Peacock Original. Check into a 1940s asylum with Netflix’s Ratched. We also headed down to South Park for the Pandemic Special. Lastly, Steven watched an anime film on Netflix called A Whisker Away. Yes, it involves a cat premise. Come join us while we Dissect This Fiction! We are DTF...are you? You can also find us on DTFcast.com or contact us with any suggestions, requests, or feedback you may have for our podcast. dtfpod@gmail.com DTF Facebook Group

Sara Sigmundsdóttir er NIKE Global athlete, þrefaldur CrossFit heimsleikafari og hefur þar af hreppt þriðja sætið tvisvar sinnum. Við rekjum vegferð Söru frá því að hata að hreyfa sig og fitnessmótum í Njarðvík yfir í íþróttamannslífið í Bandaríkjunum. Sara hefur tekið miklum breytingum á síðustu árum, þar ber að nefna að flytja til Bandaríkjanna, skipta um þjálfara, fara til sálfræðings, hata CrossFit og læra að elska það aftur. Við ræddum um hvernig það er að vera með 1 milljón followers á Instagram, Ólympíuleikana, keppnisþunglyndi, morgunmatinn hennar og Arnold Schwartzenegger. LINKAR: Evrópuleikarnir í CrossFit, bein útsending: https://games.crossfit.com The Power of Habit: http://a.co/6kWuDlq Shoe Dog: http://a.co/eCAoMKw KAFLAR: 04:34 - Að ná ekki markmiðunum sínum og taka sér pásu 08:00 - Sara Sigmunds verður íþróttamaður 16:15 - Ég þarf greinilega að keppa eins mikið og ég get 21:42 - 1. Sara, 2. Katrín, 3. Anníe 25:13 - Eftirkeppnisþunglyndi 28:31 - Neikvæðar hugsanir og ofþjálfun 33:59 - Ákvarðanir um breytingar 43:18 - Nýir þjálfarar, nýjar áherslur 48:24 - Endurance og púls 56:52 - Rich Froning 01:02:55 - Að vera stjarna 01:04:54 - SIMMA GYM 01:08:17 - Mataræði 01:16:39 - NIKE Global samningur 01:20:10 - Myndatökur 01:23:39 - Hugarfar 01:30:58 - Lyftingar, PR og ólympíuleikarnir 01:35:58 - Háskóli vs. íþróttamaður 01:40:34 - Góðar minningar og slæmar 01:45:14 - Keppnisskap, innblástur og Schwartzenegger 01:54:54 - "Still fat inside" 01:57:17 - 1M followers