Podcast appearances and mentions of matt all

Matt Barr joins us live to chat about his impressively huge genitalia. He takes the crown for the biggest penis we've ever seen and sent shock waves when Kyle, Jackie and the team saw it. Have a listen as we ask Matt ALL the questions...See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Get ready to immerse yourself in an enlightening discussion and AMA session with Matt, an expert in advanced strategies and Amazon PPC. Join us in this TACoS Tuesday episode, as we answer questions about variation listings, auto campaigns, broad campaigns, and ranking. We also take a peek into Matt's impressive background in e-commerce, recounting his experiences with selling textbooks and private-label products. Hear us as we dissect Amazon's latest data tools like Product Opportunity Explorer, Search Query Performance, and Brand Analytics and discuss how these can help sellers optimize their advertising strategies in this highly competitive market. As we journey deeper into Amazon PPC campaigns, we touch on our “north star metric” of two sales and a click-through rate above 0.2%. Learn about the significance of negative matching and how to identify underperforming keywords using the search query report. We also shed light on the benefits of using software like Pacvue for automation and analytics and how it can save you time and effort. Plus, discover the advantages of day partying and understand the impact of different match types on campaign creation.   Lastly, listen in as we dissect the topic of Amazon PPC and how to leverage it to drive sales and boost profits. We share the calculation for adjusting bids based on target ACoS and emphasize the importance of not solely focusing on ACoS as a metric. We also touch on the recent announcement of Sponsored TV and its potential for both large and small brands. Tune in as we demystify the misconception that PPC must always result in immediate profit and share strategies for effectively utilizing broad keywords despite their increasing cost. This episode is packed with practical advice, insightful discussions, and cutting-edge strategies to help you win in the world of Amazon selling.   In episode 516 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley and Matt discuss: 00:00 - Expert Matt Altman Discusses His Amazon PPC Strategies 07:59 - Keyword Promotion, Sales Metrics, and Negative Matching 11:59 - Maximizing Advertising Efficiency With Pacvue 15:44 - Bid Adjustment and Amazon Sponsored TV for Sellers 23:28 - Amazon PPC Strategy and Optimization 28:21 - Analyze Ad Performance With Feature Pack 32:25 - Using Keywords for Effective Campaigns 35:27 - Boost Search Ranking With Brand Name 37:29 - Amazon Variations and Outside Traffic Strategy 43:08 - Invitation for January Case Study ► Instagram: instagram.com/serioussellerspodcast ► Free Amazon Seller Chrome Extension: https://h10.me/extension ► Sign Up For Helium 10: https://h10.me/signup  (Use SSP10 To Save 10% For Life) ► Learn How To Sell on Amazon: https://h10.me/ft ► Watch The Podcasts On YouTube: youtube.com/@Helium10/videos Transcript Bradley Sutton: Today we've got one of the world's foremost knowledge experts on Amazon Advanced Strategy and PPC Matt back on the show and he's going to be answering all of your questions live, as well as answering a lot of my advanced questions on things like variation listings, auto campaigns, broad campaigns, ranking and much more. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think. Want to keep up to date with trending topics in the e-commerce world? Make sure to subscribe to our blog. We regularly release articles that talk about things such as shipping and logistics, e-commerce and other countries, the latest changes to Amazon Seller Central, how to get set up on new platforms like New Egg, how to write and publish a book on Amazon KDP and much, much more. Check these articles out at h10.me forward slash blog. Bradley Sutton: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers podcast by Helium 10. I'm your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that is our tacos Tuesday PPC show of the week or of the month, I should say where we go in-depth into anything and everything Amazon advertising with special guests that we have, and this week or this month we're going to have a special guest. We're going to invite him up. We're having some technical difficulty. I'm here at the Helium 10 office actually here in Irvine, California, today. So I don't have my regular setup here, but wanted to make sure everybody's having a great Q4. So far, all right. Let's go ahead and bring up our guest of the month, and it is Matt from Clear Ads. Matt, how's it going? Matt: Good, how are you doing, Bradley? Bradley Sutton: Doing awesome, doing awesome. Where are you actually watching us from? Where are you located? Matt: So currently in London. So we're here in London for the next few months, but we moved to Spain about six months ago. Bradley Sutton: Oh, nice, how's that been. Matt: We're in Barcelona. It's been great so far Loving it. Bradley Sutton: Awesome, awesome. Have you been to any FC Barcelona games since you've been out there? Matt: We haven't yet now, but it is at the top of my list. Bradley Sutton: Yeah, I've been to a couple when Messi was still there. Of course, those are good times. Love Spain Now, just in general. We've had you on the podcast before and you gave us really cool strategies in general. Today we're kind of going to be focused on PPC. That's like one of your specialties, but can you talk a little bit about your background and how you came into that Amazon space, if maybe somebody might be listening to you for the first time? Matt: Yeah, definitely so. Been in the space since around 2011, started in college actually selling textbooks and retail arbitrage, so did that for about three to four years. Kind of scaled up my bankroll to where I could get into private label and jumped at it and honestly launched a bunch of crap. We did really well for a few years until a lot of the manufacturers just started going direct to Amazon and had some pretty bad years. But pivoted, got into supplements and food and that's been for like the last six years. Bradley Sutton: Awesome. Now you are known for a lot of like really next level strategies. We've had you before at our elite workshop and things. And so thinking just first of all, I mean it could be about PPC, but just thinking outside of PPC, almost with all this new data that Amazon has come out with in the last couple of years, I mean I think a lot of us were even surprised years ago when Brand Analytics came out. And then nowadays, search career performance and things like that, this is stuff that I would say I don't know about you but me. Like four years ago I would have bet $10,000 that there's no way Amazon would ever tell you exactly how many sales are coming from a non-normalized search and what the click share percentage of top 10 competitors are, and this and that I mean people were paying Amazon employees thousands of dollars for these underground reports that weren't even as robust as what is now available for everybody. So what's your favorite thing? I'm assuming it's search career performance. Your favorite thing that Amazon has come out with? And then what part of that especially do you think is super powerful that Amazon sellers should be using? Matt: Yeah. So I would definitely say search career performance is up there. I would say they haven't changed too much about it in the last like year and a half, but really, where we've been getting a lot of knowledge and data from is Product Opportunity Explorer. I would say like this used to be kind of bland, like years ago. They recently updated it, and the amount of data that they are giving you is insane. I mean, they're telling you exactly if you sell such and such supplement. These are the 15 keywords that matter. Here's the trends on that, here's the seasonality. Like every data point that you really need is there, and that's what you need to win on, I would say. The other big one, though, is the new reports in the brand analytics, where it's giving you greater details into your customer segments. So, like we sell and consumables, and we've always kind of taken a strategy on ads that's hey, like, even if our cost is 100%, what is our cost per net new customer? And we were trying to manually calculate that previously, and now they're telling you specifically by week, how many returning customers, how many net new customers you have. So it's really helped us dial in the ads for that specific strategy. Bradley Sutton: Okay, cool, like. One thing I always liked about Product Opportunity Explorer even when it was kind of bland, as you said was seeing how many, for example, how many products it took to make up or in the old days, 80% of the sales for the entire niche. Now they kind of like, without even announcing it, they change it to 90%. But then it'll be interesting to see that you know some, you know quote, unquote markets or niches, what they call it you know, would have like 200 products, means like it's kind of like wide open, it takes 200 products just to make up 80 or 90% of the sales. And now you know there might be some where it's like only 40 or 10, you know like or like wow, there's 10 people dominating this. Now how would you personally use that information? Like is one or the other like better than the other? Matt: Yeah, so the great thing about Product Opportunity Explorer is it really shows you what keywords are driving the sales for those. So more than how many products are there we're looking at, are there branded terms that are in the Product Opportunity Explorer.  So like an example that we were looking at this past week was for a floor cleaning product and we saw that of the 20 top like 50 keywords, bona was one of the main sales driving keywords. Like, even if there weren't that many products in that category, we aren't going to be able to overcome that branded search deficit. So it's just not something that we would go into Um, but we definitely prefer to go into categories where those sales are spread across more Um. The main reason for that is we really like to do kind of um I would call it kind of like tailgating. We like to kind of stay behind everyone and we'll pull like 10% of the sales from this person, from this person, and you can kind of pick off keywords from certain top products and they may not notice that you're coming up and then you can really use that to catapult yourself to the top of the category before the rest of the products in the category realized what's happening. Bradley Sutton: Interesting, interesting, all right Now. Just, you know switching gears and going, you know kind of like PBC. Let let's do like some kind of beginner question, then let's do some some, some, some advanced things. But just, I always ask a lot of the, the the tacos Tuesday guest, about their strategy on this, because I think this is applicable almost to any level of seller. But what's your, your kind of like rule set as far as uh, when you promote keywords from like an auto or broad to to an exact, and also when you negative match on the promotion side, like, in other words, like are, are you looking for at least you know just one sale, or does it have to be two or three, like in the auto and then, and then, and then you, you put it in um or what. What's your criteria for for moving something from an auto to a exact? Matt: Yeah, so short answer. We're usually looking for two sales and a click through rate above like 0.2% Um. That's kind of like our North Star metric Um, but it really depends on the strategy of that campaign. Um, like, if we're wanting to run a lot of just awareness, we're going after ones where we may not even have sales at all but we have a high click through rate because it's a discovery keyword, that someone's kind of navigating that category with Um. So it varies, but typically it's two orders and above like a 0.2% click through. Okay, Awesome. Bradley Sutton: On the flip side, when are you negative? Uh matching, like uh, is it a certain number of clicks? Uh, is it a certain number of clicks that, uh, you have to have? Is it spend that you're looking at without a sale? Um, and then the follow-up question to that is are there scenarios where you're like not just automatically negative matching but you're like, oh shoot, this is like an important keyword. I got to figure out why in the heck I'm not converting on it before I go and just blindly negative matches. So it's kind of like a two prong question there. Matt: Yeah, Um, so this is, this is where really the search query report kind of data comes into play. Um, we're looking at, hey, like for competitors, um, like, is this performing? Kind of what's happening? Why aren't we getting sales? Um, we'll go ahead and test, possibly changing out our titles, our images, um morph towards those keywords and seeing if we can produce some sales through that. Um, but again it kind of goes back to, like, you know, the, the, the, the sort of focus that we used over a year and a half. Back to like, what is the source of that keyword? Is it really a converging keyword? Is it a discovery keyword? Like, we have a few keywords that we spend thousands of dollars on a month on my own brands, where we maybe get one or two sales Like it's out of loss, but we know it's a keyword that someone that's looking for a type of product uses is like their first term when they're trying to figure out which one to buy. And we just want to make sure that we're always top of mind really hard to like, distinguish that out and see that you were getting benefits from that. But now we're able to go a little bit deeper in that funnel and see that like yes, this is actually driving sales further down the funnel for us. Bradley Sutton: Okay, cool, cool. Now on the more advanced side, like you know, as I just threw on my, my pack view, my pack view jacket here, what, what are you? You know, like I know you've been using pack view for a while, but you know somebody out there my in general not understand, like you know, some of these services. You know pack view is not like oh yeah, you know, $49 a month subscription, but no, it's, it's, it's, you know costs, costs some money to you. So at what point does does it make sense for somebody to to like say you know what, I'm overdoing these Excel spreadsheets, I need to use a software. And then what? What makes a software suite like Pacvue so valuable? Like, how to you know? Cause you're not going to be paying money for something for you or your business or your clients that doesn't give you good ROI. So why is it worth it for you? Matt: Yeah, yeah. So we've been using Pacvue for gosh almost like seven years now. I think we were one of the first like agencies at my prior agency to come onto the platform and we love it. Honestly, wouldn't go anywhere else. So first thing I did when we came to Clare ads, we actually started switching all the accounts over to Pacvue. But in reality I would say it's usable for every level of seller. But we've had a lot of accounts come to us that may be using it but they don't know how to actually use Pacvue to its full advantages. They aren't taking advantage of all of the automations and analytics that are on the back end there. But I would say, even if you're a smaller seller like in using something that, like Bradley said, is $49 to $59, like even though Pacvue is gonna cost more, you're going to get so much more out of it. It will make your ads been more efficient. You will see better results as a whole. Like make the switch now, because it's a lot easier to switch when you're starting out and you have very few campaigns. Like migrating accounts over that have 400 campaigns already. Like it starts to get hard and you've got to really rework a lot of that. So I believe in doing it right from day one, and you're gonna save yourself a lot of work down the line. Bradley Sutton: Now, one of the things Pacvue does that probably eventually is gonna come to regular sellers might have some visibility in this aspect, but it's kind of like the ability to do like day partying and things. So is that something that you guys actually do Like? Do you use that service of turning off ads or changing budgets at certain times of the day and if you are, what's your criteria when you're looking at that? Matt: Yeah, so we do use that on every single account. We use it in one of two ways. One is we're manually adjusting it based on, like our peak sales hours that we know of, if it's a high selling account. But on other accounts, Pacvue actually has an awesome feature where you can set up a day partying scheduler based on conversion rates, click through rates, number of orders by hour, and it will dynamically update that based on a trailing two week, three week period, whatever you set it to. So Pacvue really does a lot of the thinking for you and eliminates kind of that concern from your mind. Bradley Sutton: All right, let's see we've got from Dota In Amazon PPC campaign. Should I create one campaign containing an ad group for phrase match exact and broad, or should I create each match in their own campaign or like? So I guess he's saying like maybe he should have different ad groups in one campaign or do you just have like one ad group per match type, per campaign? Matt: Yeah, so I'll tell you why we do it a certain way. I would say this is definitely kind of interchangeable depending upon how you want to manage your campaigns, but in order to have full and absolute control you need to have a separate campaign for each of these. A good example of this is we had a client who came to us. They had a lot of mixes within their ad groups during Black Friday, cyber Monday, they upped their bids with top of search modifier and they didn't realize that it would affect their broad targeting terms, that they were spending like $7 on broad terms and just getting placements everywhere and tank the performance. So we always break them out into their own campaigns and then even from there we'll typically segment out, like superhero keywords, into their own single keyword campaigns. Bradley Sutton: Okay, excellent. Let me see we've got another one here from Kim Kim K. I don't think it's the Kim K. Hey guys, do you have a calculation that you use to determine how much to adjust bids? Longstanding sponsor campaigns with lots of history is the focus target. Acos, thanks to Vets. Matt: Yeah, so this is pretty easy. You can put together a pretty simple formula to figure out bids based on your target ACOS. So, off the top of my head and I could be saying this wrong we have it in Excel sheet. But you're really just looking at cost per click times, conversion rates, and then equals your ACOS over that. I would say we typically don't optimize any campaigns towards ACOS. I think it's something that's been brought up a lot across, like the Amazon ecosystem, and it's never really the best metric to look at. We've had a lot of accounts that have come to us where their sales have depleted over the last year, year and a half, and they're running very efficient. Like 20% ACOS. Tacos are like three to 5%, like the account looks healthy but you're undermining the daily velocity per keyword that you can achieve, which ultimately kills your organic ranks, and then you may not see it now or three months from now, but six months from now you're gonna be like what the heck happens and it's really hard to climb yourself back out of that pit. Bradley Sutton: Yeah, yeah makes sense. But just in general, before I go into some more specific ones that I had. You know, we recently had Amazon unbox and there was a number of announcements one of them being sponsored TV, that create a lot of buzz. But the question I think a lot of people have is is, well, that's still something, or maybe only for humongous, you know sellers like first of all, is that true, or is there a path to using sponsored TV for, you know, maybe there's a low seven figure seller, high six figure seller, and then is it kind of only for brand awareness, or do you think that there's? You know the way that they're doing it, sometimes with QR codes, you know, like on Black Friday football game that they had, where there's a direct to purchase link or is it more for brand awareness, do you think? Matt: Yeah. So we ran some over Black Friday, cyber Monday, across large and small brands and actually saw decent performance on quite a bit of them. I would say the biggest factor that really drove it was the quality of creative. A lot of our smaller brands didn't have the creative backbone to really fulfill a huge TV push like that, and that's probably the guardrail that smaller brands are going to have trouble getting over. Like you can't take a $200 video off the Fiverr and put it on TV and expect it to do well. So really focusing in on the creative and making it more like a TV commercial definitely helped for us. But we did have some very basic like stop motion slide animated videos with just some text over them and they did pretty well as well. So I would say it's worth trying out. Just make sure you're really narrowing down those audiences that you're targeting, because the CPMs on it are extremely high. But test it, put $20, $30 behind it per day and just really see what you can do. I do think this will kind of be a big lever that larger brands can definitely lean more into to increase that awareness as they tap out other pieces of DSP and Amazon ads. But smaller brands is like it's just as evil, even as a playing field. But the creative does have to be elevated. Bradley Sutton: Okay. William says should I expect to see profit from PPC? I rarely see profit, however, the volume of sales increases. Where I see profit Maybe he's kind of like talking a little bit of tacos here, or like you know people, I think the narrative nowadays when you hear, when you hear sellers, is oh my goodness, like PPC is so expensive, like I don't even know how I can be profitable. But it's not always trying to just make profit on the exact ad. Right, talk a little bit about that. Matt: Yeah. So like one question I always ask sellers that even like potential clients that come to us when they're complaining about profits or tacos or a cost, I'm like, what's your CPA? And honestly, I can count on one hand the number of people that actually knew their CPAs by product that we've talked to. Every other ad channel you look at CPAs, whether you're running on meta, TikTok, whatever you're looking at CPAs, and every time we've run the numbers the CPAs are way cheaper on Amazon than they are on any other channel. What that means is yes, probably there are some categories where you're going to run PPC at a loss, Like on my brain, main brands. We run PPC at a loss because it keeps our velocities up, it keeps our organic rankings up and you'll see those metrics in your tacos. So really, tacos is kind of your guiding light on that, but really setting in stone a target CPA and not adjusting your bids based on a cost or tacos. But as long as you're hitting that target CPA, you're continuing to see growth. That's what we really like to maximize towards. Bradley Sutton: Excellent, thank you for that. William Guarov says hey, amazon PPC is getting costly. What's a strategy to play with broad keywords? And then maybe I can piggyback on that and take a step back. Broad it seemingly has almost changed over the last year or so. I could kind of predict what would come with Broad. I would use Helium 10, magnet, I would do the smart complete and then I could see all the Broad kind of variations. I kind of know what could potentially come up here Now. I might have coffin shelf as a Broad match and then I'll get thrown in like Gothic decor, like not even the same, doesn't even share the same keyword, and so maybe I'm not sure, if that's what he's talking about there, how it might be getting more expensive. And then if, if so, like, like, how do you deal with that? Matt: Yeah, so I'll answer this and I'll answer more about kind of what you went into, Bradley, because I think that's a bigger picture that people need to look into in the future of Amazon. But really when we're running Broad, we're running modified Broad campaigns so that we're at least trying to get more exact towards what we wanted. I will say it doesn't always work. Sometimes you still get those keywords way out of left field, but you have a bit more control. But I would focus again really on the search query performance data and the product opportunity. Explorer, like Amazon, is telling you specifically what keywords are being searched and what's being purchased. Broad isn't as useful for us as it used to be like. All that data now is getting piped back to us and using Helium 10, using Pacvue, you can find pretty much every keyword that's going to be a converting keyword. The biggest thing that we've seen Broad actually do for us here recently and I would say for the last six months, is it's allowed us to catch on to like TikTok trends that are basically going viral and it's picking up those keywords quicker than we would be able to pick them up. So that has been a huge opportunity. But there are a lot of other, like TikTok, specific tools that you can use to kind of find those trending things to get them into your ad campaigns. Matt: The bigger thing kind of on how Broad has expanded is Amazon, like Google and other search engines, is really kind of shifting towards a semantic search, which is why, like you're coming up for Gothic decor and things like that and you've probably heard other people in the space talking about semantics this has been key in, like Google, seo for the last few years and it's only going to get more and more relevant in Amazon as Amazon starts to switch more towards an AI learning model for their specific search. So a lot of what we've been doing and working on is, for example, typically if you're creating your listing, you'd find your keywords through Helium 10, you'd use Scribbles to craft your listing, make sure you get all your keywords in there, but, like in your example, gothic decor that is a huge semantic keyword that is relevant to your coffin. We would go ahead and put that on the back end or try and figure out how to fit it into the bullet points, because it's just a checkmark that Amazon's looking for now because semantically they're saying you should say something about Gothic with your current product and a lot of products that we've been optimizing towards this on, we've seen success like crazy, probably more than anything else that we've done in the last year and a half. Bradley Sutton: Okay, interesting, let's see. Guarev has another question here. What would be the ideal ratio performing and non-performing keywords in broad? Not sure if I understand that question fully, but do you know what you might be listening for? Matt: Say like in broad you're going to have a lot more non-performing just because of the control factor. Unless you're using a lot of negatives, negative phrases, throughout it, I would say we don't really look at the ratio of performing and non-performing in broad because really where we're caring about performance is on our exact match. We aren't caring as much here. We're using this to seed keywords, so even if they are performing, they aren't staying in broad that long if they are. So typically for us it would be like 90 to 95% are non-performing. Bradley Sutton: Okay, Now switching gears to auto campaigns. What's your strategy as far as, like the close match, loose match substitutes? Do you keep them all in one campaign or do you actually segregate those targets in separate auto campaigns? Matt: Yeah, so we actually mix it up. We've seen hit or miss performance on these when we break them out, for whatever reason. Sometimes they work better even with the exact same beds when they're all together. I don't know why that happens, but we typically test both and then whichever one's performing, we pause out the others and let one continue on. We do do a lot of negative matching in our auto campaigns that we're bidding on elsewhere, but we do also always still run a super low bid auto campaign. We negate out brand of terms and run them at like 30 cents per click, and I was just looking at account before I hopped on here Last week one of them got 135 sales for like $22. Like these campaigns still work, I've used them honestly as long as I've been selling on Amazon and we always set them up for all of our products. Bradley Sutton: Now, going back to software, software like Pacvue Adtomic. One cool thing that we can do is I could just see a search term, but not just at the campaign level. I could see it in all campaigns. Like, let's say, in an auto campaign, for example, I got a coffin shelf and in that campaign I had 40 clicks and zero sales. And let's say I felt that it wasn't too relevant of a keyword. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to keep spending money on this. Obviously, at 40 clicks I would negative match it. But with the software I can see that, hey, it's getting impressions and clicks in a broad campaign over here, maybe an exact campaign over here, but in those campaigns there's only like maybe five clicks. So, theoretically speaking, if I was just looking at that campaign in isolation, there might not have been enough information to be a negative match. But since you have so many negative or clicks with no sales in one campaign, do you just go ahead and say you know what, across the board, I don't want this keyword showing up in any of these campaigns. Or do you let the number? Do you let it roll? Do you let it ride in those other campaigns? Matt: Yeah, so great question. This is actually a feature pack view that we use every single day because you see a lot of variance in this and even like moving keywords over to exact match. But it may be in phrase that have dead like a third of what your exact match one is. Whatever reason, the phrase one is serving like crazy and you're getting sales. The exact match one isn't. So we look at this daily and we're trying to figure out one like why isn't our exact match getting served? Like hey, what's going on here? And adjusting the bids and keeping a close eye on it. But typically if we're seeing performance elsewhere, we'll keep it on, mainly because we don't know exactly where that ad is appearing Like. I mean, we now know like top of search, rest of search, product pages, but we don't really know granular details. This is also something that pack view does really well. When you have your share of voice turned on, you can see exactly where your ads appearing and what placement, what percentage of time. So using pack view or actually I don't know any other tools that do it as deep as pack view does on that We've been able to really narrow it down and figure out like, hey, this one's performing really well and slot four of ad positions. Like we can't get served for this one and slot two or three, and we can readjust our entire strategy for that keyword for position four and actually set up automations in pack view to make sure we're always in sponsored position four. Bradley Sutton: Nice. Now, speaking of that, how are you keeping at top of search? You know like I'm kind of old school where you know you're more old school than me, but you know like in my days when I first started learning PPC, there was no, you know, top of search modifier and things like that. You just raise and lower the bits and I kind of kept doing that because, like you know, I obviously with helium 10, like I'll turn on the boost and keyword tracker and it's checking 24 times a day, rotating, you know addresses and browsing scenarios. So I kind of like, no, am I showing up in top of search and sponsor or not? And I've just kind of like kept doing that. Now, are you still doing that, or do you use those those? You know like, hey, I'm going to go 200% for top of search or some kind of formula like that. Matt: Yeah. So I'll say when the bid modifiers first came out like they were amazing. We could bid like 60 cents with 900% top of search and get crazy conversions and everything was great. Too many people are using them now and it's kind of just a battle of who's going to pay more to get that position. What we've actually switched most accounts over to is actually using pack view organic and paid position bidding. So we'll set up rules to basically increase the bids until we're in position one and that will like set our new base bid if we're going for top of search and then we'll use that and then look at our percentage of serving time through pack view into that and adjust as needed. Like. One nice feature is you can set like I want a 90% top of search share of voice for this keyword and pack view will automatically update your bid without the modifiers, because sometimes using the modifiers can get out of hand quickly and you could spend your whole budget and one day, if the keywords big enough, within a few hours on one of the 50 keywords in your campaign. So we really rely on pack view to figure a lot of that out for us and optimize the perfect position for ads and we've kind of stepped back away from modifiers. The one place we do still use them quite frequently, though, is product page modifiers. We do a lot of product targeting where that's really what we're going after, and it does seem to still work well for us there. Rest of search hasn't been a great modifier for us as of yet. We have better success using set rules and pack view to manage that versus the rest of search modifier. Bradley Sutton: OK, cool, I got a fight to bring that into Adtomic. I didn't know that pack view had that Nice Two part question here from Duda how do you use these keywords Electrolyte protein phrase match and then electrolyte protein powder phrase match? My issue is that they are my main keyword but they generate different variations in customer search terms with different variations. With only one click or two, the most Out of those 50 different search terms that get that those main keywords are generated. How do I pick those that convert it? So I'm assuming that he's got two targets here and that maybe he's getting clicks on a whole bunch of long tail versions of this. Perhaps, if I'm deciphering this correctly. Matt: Yeah. So it depends on how that campaign is set up. So a typical phrase match campaign for us we would never put those keywords into the same ad group or campaign because electrolyte protein is electrolyte protein powder phrase. If you do have them split out into separate campaigns, if you have different bids there, one's going to serve over the other always. You have no real control in that. So I would say if it were me, I would just do electrolyte protein as a phrase match and get rid of any type of variation possible and use that as my guiding light. If you aren't getting served typically I know that's a high volume category your budgets probably aren't enough within that campaign to keep it serving constantly and you're getting middle of page or bottom of page placements. So that's how it's getting your budget throughout the day. I would test increasing the budget on that campaign and seeing what it scales up to and you'll probably see a bit more even click distribution between those. Bradley Sutton: OK, Cool. Sergio has a question here. Hey say, when launching, you tell your friends and family your brand and your product and hey, go buy it. Should I do an exact campaign for the brand name so they don't have to scroll? So first of all, at least it's good that you're like, don't be doing search, find, buy things or something which it sounds like you're not. Otherwise you wouldn't even have this question and hopefully you're telling your friends and family, do not leave your reviews just at all, to make sure that you're not getting in trouble with Amazon. But yeah, if you're trying to get your friends to support your product, I mean I think regardless, if you're trying to get your friends and family to support your product, shouldn't you always target your brand name, or that's only kind of like when you're more of a mature brand, Does that really come into play? What do you think? Matt: Yeah, I would say it depends on your brand name. If it's a unique brand name that, like nothing else is really going to come up for, like yeah, I wouldn't run ads. But if it's something that could be construed as something else, I would definitely run some ads to get towards the top. The one thing I would say about this and it's something that we do when we're launching and you're telling friends, family, anyone about it, we leave it kind of bland and just say, hey, this is my brand and it's a protein powder. I would really appreciate if you can buy it. You're not telling them to go search, fine, by keywords. But if you tell them that, hey, it's protein powder, and brand names are probably going to search protein powder, that brand name without you doing anything, Because it's always better, which is why search fine buys work to get a real keyword in there beyond your brand. But even just pumping the brand name does work as well. We've seen it with TikTok. Brand name searches can skyrocket you for every other keyword that you're relevant for. Bradley Sutton: William says yeah, this is a universal question, I think, or universal debate, I think. For successful exact keywords, do you recommend making those keywords negative in the broad? Some people teach that although you're converting for a keyword in the exact, do not remove that keyword from broad. Matt: Yes, this is debated quite a bit and I'll tell you from our experience it can kind of go either way, like sometimes we'll negate it in broad and then the exact stops performing. Sometimes we'll leave it and the broad performs better. Like it can go either way. I would say it's something that you should definitely test. Amazon ads is still kind of finicky on some of these things. For whatever reason. Older campaigns still tend to work better for us. So if your broad campaigns older than your exact match, it may still continue to outperform for a little bit. But what we do typically do is if we're going to leave it in broad, we lower the bids in broad I'm not specific keyword quite a bit and try and give the exact match as much room to run as it possibly could. Bradley Sutton: OK, cool, let's see. Hina has a question. I have 10 variations. They're not page one ranked. What strategy can I apply to get a good conversion on it? So I'm not sure exactly what he's saying here. But let me just change this into another question here. Like I've got betting that has a bunch of variations, or a consumable that has a whole bunch of different flavors, are you putting all the variations into one campaign? Do you have different campaigns for each variation? Do you only promote maybe one or two child items out of the whole variation? What's your strategy on variation items for PBC? Matt: Yeah, so we run a lot of variations. This is the one place where we do run ad groups. So our main products, the main variation, is flavored. So if someone's searching for a lemon flavored one, you obviously don't want that running against a chocolate flavored one. So an exact match campaign would have an ad group for each flavor and we'd be breaking out the different flavor variances within there. If it's a more broad term that doesn't include a flavor name, we're usually pushing it towards our hero product within that variation. But something that you can definitely test. I would say one thing to look at is search query performance and also the top I think they call it top search term report Now it used to be the old brand analytics report and see what the other top click products are. In our instance, if someone's searching for a sugar cookie, it may be that they're searching for a specific flavor and you can see that by the click through rate and a commercial rates from brand analytics. Bradley Sutton: Cool. Now, before we get into your final strategy of the day, can you talk a little bit about clear ads? I mean who you know, who, who you guys might be able to help the most, and what you guys do. Matt: Yeah, definitely. Um, so we're an ads agency um based in the UK. Um, we work with sellers and actually every single amazon marketplace now, so can help you across the board there. Um, we also do offer like full service management. So if you're looking for content creation, lipstein optimizations or even just day to day like inventory management, case log management, we can help you with all of it. Um, we also run DSPs, so pretty much a to z on amazon, we've got you covered. Um, and many of you may know George Um the founder. Um, he's everywhere. Um, so, yeah, head us up if you need any help with any of those things. Bradley Sutton: Awesome, awesome, all right, now um 60 second strategy of the day could be about PPC. It could be about search career performance. Could be about how to live as a foreigner in Barcelona. It could be about anything you want, so go ahead. Matt: All right, um, so I'm going to take it away and I'm going to do. Uh, outside traffic to amazon Um, so I think one of the big questions that search career report has brought up with a lot of people is like, hey, these sales numbers in here are extremely low. I know I'm selling more for this keyword or this product. Like, why isn't this represented? And I think majority of people don't ever look at outside traffic to listings and what's happening. But if you actually take the time to dive deeper, you would be amazed at how much traffic comes straight to your listing from other sources outside of amazon. Um. One great way to do this is how we do it. Um, you can use SCM, rush or a trust or really any kind of SEO tool. Plug in your canonical um amazon URL and just see, like, what articles have been written about you that you know nothing about, where you're getting posted on social. It will highlight all of these things. Um, but really the big key factor that we've been looking at is if you have a competitor in your category that you just you can't figure out how they're doing things. Chances are it's all coming from outside of amazon and that's why you can't compete. So doing this simple search, you can see like, hey, these are the bloggers that are talking about it, these are the articles that they got. You can reach out to those people directly. Most of those positions are paid. Like, don't trust any of those top 10 articles, they're all paid. Um, you can reach out and pay for those, and sites like a H refs SCM rush will tell you how much traffic that bloggers are, so you can kind of estimate what your return is going to be on that dollar. Um, I would say another big piece that we've been kind of working on for these is for a lot of terms like your, your coffin example. Matt: Like there's no one out there that has a website about coffins, like that specific product, it would take you with AI a few days to whip together a basic word press site that has everything you would ever want to know about small coffins and since no one else is writing about that, you're going to rank in Google like top three within a few weeks. If you're in these categories where there isn't that much competition or it's a unique product, start making some micro sites. Um, like I've shared some examples at some prior events and presentations, we have a few of these micro sites that are giving us seven to 8000 people a month now to our Amazon listings, and we used AI for the entire process. Um, so it took us maybe an hour per site and they just continue to produce. And the big thing with that is it's a traffic channel that no one else can really steal from you, because most people aren't looking at this and you'll always kind of stay at the top of your category because your velocities will just always be higher. Bradley Sutton: That might be something I'd like to dive into, if you are able to come out in January. Like your step by step case study on that, that sounds fascinating. Alright, well, matt, thank you so much for joining us. I know it's late over there. I appreciate it and hopefully we get to see you in January. Matt: Sounds good. Thanks for having me.

About MattMatt is the head of community at Lawtrades, a legal tech startup that connects busy in-house legal departments with flexible on-demand legal talent. Prior to this role, Matt was the director of legal and risk management at a private equity group down in Miami, Florida. Links Referenced: Lawtrades: https://www.lawtrades.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsmattslaw/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itsmattslaw Twitter: https://twitter.com/ItsMattsLaw LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/flattorney/ duckbillgroup.com: https://duckbillgroup.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: If you asked me to rank which cloud provider has the best developer experience, I'd be hard-pressed to choose a platform that isn't Google Cloud. Their developer experience is unparalleled and, in the early stages of building something great, that translates directly into velocity. Try it yourself with the Google for Startups Cloud Program over at cloud.google.com/startup. It'll give you up to $100k a year for each of the first two years in Google Cloud credits for companies that range from bootstrapped all the way on up to Series A. Go build something, and then tell me about it. My thanks to Google Cloud for sponsoring this ridiculous podcast.Corey: This episode is sponsored by our friends at Logicworks. Getting to the cloud is challenging enough for many places, especially maintaining security, resiliency, cost control, agility, etc, etc, etc. Things break, configurations drift, technology advances, and organizations, frankly, need to evolve. How can you get to the cloud faster and ensure you have the right team in place to maintain success over time? Day 2 matters. Work with a partner who gets it - Logicworks combines the cloud expertise and platform automation to customize solutions to meet your unique requirements. Get started by chatting with a cloud specialist today at snark.cloud/logicworks. That's snark.cloud/logicworksCorey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Something that I've learned in my career as a borderline full-time shitposter is that as the audience grows, people tend to lose sight of the fact that no, no, the reason that I have a career is because I'm actually good at one or two specific things, and that empowers the rest of the shitposting, gives me a basis from which to stand. Today's guest is Matt Margolis, Head of Community at Lawtrades. And I would say he is also a superior shitposter, but instead of working in the cloud space, he works in the legal field. Matt, thank you for joining me.Matt: That was the nicest intro I've ever received in my entire career.Corey: Well, yes, usually because people realize it's you and slam the door in your face, I assume, just based upon some of your TikToks. My God. Which is—I should point out—where I first encountered you.Matt: You found me on TikTok?Corey: I believe so. It sends me down these really weird rabbit holes, and at first, I was highly suspicious of the entire experience. Like, it's showing ADHD videos all the time, and as far as advertisements go, and it's, “Oh, my God, they're doing this really weird tracking,” and like, no, no, they just realize I'm on TikTok. It's that dopamine hit that works out super well. For a while, it drifted me into lesbian TikTok—which is great—because apparently, I follow a lot of creators who are not men, but I also don't go for the whole thirst trap things. Like, who does that? That's right. Must be lesbians. Which, great, I'm in good company. And it really doesn't know what to make of me. But you show up on my feed with fairly consistent frequency. Good work.Matt: That is fac—I appreciate that. I don't know if that's a compliment, though. But I [laugh]—no, I appreciate it. You know, for me, I get… not to plug a friend but I get—Alex Su's TikToks are probably like, one in two and then the other person is—maybe I'm also on lesbian TikTok as well. I think maybe we have earned the similar vote here.Corey: In fact, there's cohorts that they slot people into and I feel like we're right there together. Though Ales Su, who has been on the show as well, talk about source of frustration. I mentioned in passing that I was going to be chatting with him to my wife, who's an attorney. And she lit up. Like, “Oh, my God, you know him? My girlfriends and I talk about him all the time.”And I was sitting there going, well, there better damn well be a subculture out there that talks about me and those glowing terms because he's funny, yes, but he's not that funny. My God. And don't tell him that. It'll go to his head.Matt: I say the same thing. I got a good one for you. I was once in the sales call, and I remember speaking with—I was like, “You know, I'm like, pretty decent on Twitter. I'm pretty decent on LinkedIn”—which I don't think anyone brags about that, but I do—“And I'm okay on, like, Instagram and TikTok.” And he goes, “That's cool. That's really cool. So, are you kind of like Alex? Like, Alex Su?” And I go? “Uh, yeah,” he goes, “Yeah, because he's really funny. He's probably the best lawyer out there that, you know, shitposts and post funny things on the internet.” And I just sat there—and I love Alex; he's a good friend—I just sat there, and I'm like, “All right. All right. This is a conversation about Alex. This isn't a conversation about Matt.” And I took him to stride. I called Alex immediately after. I'm like, “Hey, you want to hear something funny.” And he got a kick out of it. He certainly got a kick out of it.Corey: It's always odd to me, just watching my own reputation come back to me filtered through other people's perceptions whenever I wind up encountering people in the wild, and they say, oh, you're Corey Quinn at—which is usually my clue to look at them very carefully with my full attention because if their next words are, “I work at Amazon,” that's my cue to duck before I get punched in the face. Whereas in other cases, they're like, “Oh, yeah, you're hilarious on the Twitters.” Or, “I saw you give a conference talk years ago,” or whatever it is. But no one ever says the stuff that's actually intellectually rigorous. No one ever says, “Yeah, I read some of your work on AWS contract negotiation,” or, “In-depth bill analysis as mapped to architecture.” Yeah, yeah. That is not the stuff that sticks in people's head. It's, “No, no, the funny guy with his mouth wide open on the internet.” It's, “Yep, that's me. The human flytrap.”Matt: Yeah, I feel that. I've been described, I think, is a party clown. That comes up from time to time. And to your point, Corey, like, I get that all the time where someone will say, “Matt I really enjoyed that meme you posted, the TikTok, the funny humor.” And then every so often, I'll post, gosh, like, an article about something we're doing, maybe a white paper on commercial contracting, or some sort of topic that really fits into my wheelhouse, and people were like, “That's… I guess that's cool. I just thought you were a party clown.” And you know, I make the balloon animals but… not all the time.Corey: That's the weirdest part to me of all of this is just this weird experience where we become the party clowns and that is what people view us as, but peeling away the humor and the jokes and the things we do for engagement, as we're like, we're sitting here each trying to figure out the best way to light ourselves on fire and survive the experience because the views would be enormous, you do have a legal background. You are an attorney yourself—still are, if I understand the process properly. Personally have an eighth-grade education, so basically, what I know of bars is a little bit of a different context.Matt: I also know those bars. I'm definitely a fan of those bars as well. I am still an attorney. I was in private practice, I worked in the government. I then went in-house in private equity down in Miami, Florida. And now, though I am shitposter, you are right, I am still a licensed attorney in the state of Florida. Could not take a bar exam anywhere else because I probably would light myself on fire. But yeah, I am. I am still an attorney.Corey: It's wild to me just to see how much of this world winds up continuing to, I guess, just evolve in strange and different ways. Because you take a look at the legal profession, it's—what is it, the world's second oldest profession? Because they say that the oldest profession was prostitution and then immediately someone, of course, had a problem with this, so they needed to have someone to defend them and hence, lawyers; the second oldest profession. And it seems like it's a field steeped in traditionalism, and with the bar, yes, a bit of gatekeeping. And now it's trying to deal with a highly dynamic, extraordinarily irreverent society.And it feels like an awful lot of, shall we say, more buttoned-down attorney types tend to not be reacting to any of that super well. I mean, most of my interaction with lawyers in a professional context when it comes to content takes a lot more of the form of a cease and desist than it does conversations like this. Thanks for not sending one of those, by the way, so far. It's appreciated.Matt: [laugh]. No worries, no worries. The day is not over yet. First off, Corey, I'm going to do a thing that attorneys love doing is I'm going to steal what you just said and I'm going to use it later because that was stellar.Corey: They're going to license it, remember?Matt: License it.Corey: That's how this works.Matt: Copy and paste it. I'm going to re—its precedent now. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I see it online, I see it on Link—LinkedIn is probably the best example of it; I sometimes see it on Twitter—older attorneys, attorneys that are part of that old guard, see what we're doing, what we're saying, the jokes we're making—because behind every joke is a real issue a real thing, right? The reason why we laugh, at least for some of these jokes, is we commiserate over it. We're like, “That's funny because it hurts.”And a lot of these old-guard attorneys hate it. Do not want to talk about it. They've been living good for years. They've been living under this regime for years and they don't want to deal with it. And attorneys like myself who are making these jokes, who are shitposting, who are bringing light to these kinds of things are really, I would say dis—I hate to call myself a disrupter, but are disrupting the traditional buttoned-up attorney lifestyle and world.Corey: It's wild to me, just to see how much of this winds up echoing my own experiences in dealing with, shall we say, some of the more I don't use legacy, which is a condescending engineering term for ‘it makes money,' but some of the older enterprise companies that had the temerity to found themselves before five years ago in somewhere that wasn't San Francisco and build things on computers that weren't rented by the gigabyte-month from various folks in Seattle. It's odd talking to some of those folks, and I've heard from a number of people, incidentally, that they considered working with my company, but decided not to because I seem a little too lighthearted and that's not how they tend to approach things. One of the nice things about being a boutique consultant is that you get to build things like this to let the clients that are not likely to be a good fit self-select out of working with you.Matt: It's identical to law.Corey: Yeah. “Aren't you worried you're losing business?” Like, “Oh, don't worry. It's not business I would want.”Matt: I'm okay with it. I'll survive. Yeah, like, the clients that are great clients, you're right, will be attracted to it. The clients that you never wanted to approach, they probably were never going to approach you anyways, are not [laugh] going to approach you. So, I agree wholeheartedly. I was always told lawyers are not funny. I've been told that jobs, conferences, events—Corey: Who are you hanging out with doctors?Matt: [laugh]. Dentists. The funniest of doctors. And I've been told that just lawyers aren't funny, right? So, lawyers shouldn't be funny; that's not how they should present themselves.You're never going to attract clients. You're ever going to engage in business development. And then I did. And then I did because people are attracted by funny. People like the personality. Just like you Corey, people enjoy you, enjoy your company, enjoy what you have to do because they enjoy being around you and they want to continue via, you know, like, business relationship.Corey: That's part of the weird thing from where I sit, where it's this—no matter what you do or where you sit, people remain people. And one of the big eye-openers for me that happened, fortunately early in my career, was discovering that a number of execs at name brand, publicly traded companies—not all of them, but a good number; the ones you'd want to spend time with—are in fact, human beings. I know, it sounds wild to admit that, but it's true. And they laugh, they tell stories themselves, they enjoy ridiculous levels of nonsense that tends to come out every second time I opened my mouth. But there's so much that I think people lose sight of. “Oh, they're executives. They only do boring and their love language is PowerPoint.” Mmm, not really. Not all of them.Matt: It's true. Their love language sometimes is Excel. So, I agree [laugh].Corey: That's my business partner.Matt: I'm not good at Excel, I'll tell you that. But I hear that as well. I hear that in my own business. So, I'm currently at a place called Lawtrades, and for the listeners out there, if you don't know who Lawtrades is, this is the—I'm not a salesperson, but this is my sales spiel.Corey: It's a dating site for lawyers, as best I can tell.Matt: [laugh]. It is. Well, I guess close. I mean, we are a marketplace. If you're a company and you need an attorney on a fractional basis, right—five hours, ten hours, 15 hours, 20 hours, 40 hours—I don't care, you connect.And what we're doing is we're empowering these freelance attorneys and legal professionals to kind of live their life, right, away from the old guard, having to work at these big firms to work at big clients. So, that's what we do. And when I'm in these conversations with general counsels, deputy general counsels, heads of legal at these companies, they don't want to talk like you're describing, this boring, nonsense conversation. We commiserate, we talk about the practice, we talk about stories, war stories, funny things about the practice that we enjoy. It's not a conversation about business; it's a conversation about being a human being in the legal space. It's always a good time, and it always results in a long-lasting relationship that I personally appreciate more than—probably more than they do. But [laugh].Corey: It really comes down to finding the watering holes where your humor works. I mean, I made the interesting choice one year to go and attend a conference for CFOs and the big selling point of this conference was that it counts as continuing professional education, which as you're well aware, in regulated professions, you need to attend a certain number of those every so often, or you lose your registration slash license slash whatever it is. My jokes did not work there. Let's put it that way.Matt: [laugh]. That's unfortunate because I'm having trouble keeping a straight face as we do this podcast.Corey: It was definitely odd. I'm like, “Oh, so what do you do?” Like, “Oh, I'm an accountant.” “Well, that's good. I mean, assume you don't bring your work home with you and vice versa. I mean, it's never a good idea to hook up where you VLOOKUP.”And instead of laughing—because I thought as Excel jokes go, that one's not half bad—instead, they just stared at me and then walked away. All right. Sorry, buddy, I didn't mean to accidentally tell a joke in your presence.Matt: [laugh]. You're setting up all of my content for Twitter. I like that one, too. That was really good.Corey: No, no, it comes down to just being a human being. And one of the nice things about doing what I've done—I'm curious to get your take on this, is that for the first time in my career doing what I do now, I feel like I get to bring my whole self to work. That is not what it means that a lot of ways it's commonly used. It doesn't mean I get to be problematic and make people feel bad as individuals. That's just being an asshole; that's not bringing your whole self to work.But it also means I feel like I don't have to hide, I can bring my personality with me, front and center. And people are always amazed by how much like my Twitter personality I am in real life. And yeah because I can't do a bit for this long. I don't have that kind of attention span for one. But the other side of that, too, is does exaggerate certain elements and it's always my highs, never my lows.I'm curious to know how you wind up viewing how you present online with who you are as a person.Matt: That is a really good question. Similar. Very similar. I do some sort of exaggeration. The character I like to play is ‘Bad Associate.' It's, like, one of my favorite characters to play where it's like, if I was the worst version of myself, in practice, what would I look like?And those jokes to me always make me laugh because I always—you know, you have a lot of anxiety when you practice. That's just an aspect of the law. So, for me, I get to make jokes about things that I thought I was going to do or sound like or be like, so it honestly makes me feel a little better. But for the humor itself and how I present online, especially on Twitter, my boss, one of my co-founders, put it perfectly. And we had met for a conference, and—first time in person—and he goes, “You're no different than Twitter, are you?” I go, “Nope.” And he goes, “That's great.”And he really appreciated that. And you're right. I felt like I presented my whole personality, my whole self, where in the legal profession, in private practice, it was not the case. Definitely not the case.Corey: Yeah, and sometimes I talk in sentences that are more than 280 characters, which is, you know, a bad habit.Matt: Sometimes. I have a habit from private practice that I can't get rid of, and I ask very aggressive depo questions like I'm deposing somebody. If you're listening in, can you write me on Twitter and tell me if you're a litigator and you do the same thing? Because, like, I will talk to folks, and they're like, “This isn't an interview or like a deposition.” I'm like, “Why? Why isn't it?” And it [laugh] gets really awkward really quickly. But I'm trying to break that habit.Corey: I married a litigator. That pattern tracks, let's be clear. Not that she doesn't so much, but her litigator friends, if litigators could be said to have friends, yeah, absolutely.Matt: My wife is a former litigator. Transactional attorney.Corey: Yes. Much the same. She's grown out of the habit, thankfully.Matt: Oh, yeah. But when we were in the thick of litigation, we were actually at competing law firms. It was very much so, you come home, and it's hard to take—right, it's hard to not take your work home, so there was definitely occasions where we would talk to each other and I thought the judge had to weigh in, right, because there were some objections thrown, some of the questions were leading, a little bit of compound questions. So, all right, that's my lawyer joke of the day. I'm sorry, Corey. I won't continue on the schtick.Corey: It works, though. It's badgering the witness, witnessing the badger, et cetera. Like, all kinds of ridiculous nonsense and getting it wrong, just to be, I guess, intentionally obtuse, works out well. Something you said a minute ago does tie into what you do professionally, where you mentioned that your wife was a litigator and now is a transactional attorney. One thing they never tell you when you start a business is how many lawyers you're going to be working with.And that's assuming everything goes well. I mean, we haven't been involved in litigation, so that's a whole subset of lawyer we haven't had to deal with yet. But we've worked with approximately six—if memory serves—so far, not because we're doing anything egregious, just because—rather because so many different aspects of the business require different areas of specialty. We also, to my understanding—and I'm sure my business partner will correct me slash slit my throat if I'm wrong—I've not had to deal with criminal attorneys in any interesting ways. Sorry, criminal defense attorneys, criminal attorneys is a separate setup for a separate story.But once I understood that, realizing, oh, yeah, Lawtrades. You can find specialist attorneys to augment your existing staff. That is basically how I view that. Is that directionally accurate?Matt: Yeah. So like, common issue I run into, right is, like, a general counsel, is a corporate attorney, right? That's their background. And they're very aware that they're not an employment attorney. They're not a privacy attorney. Maybe they're not an IP attorney or a patent attorney.And because they realize that, because they're not like that old school attorney that thinks they can do everything and solve everyone's problems, they come to Lawtrades and they say, “Look, I don't need an employment attorney for 40 hours a week. I just need ten hours. That's all I need, right? That's the amount of work that I have.” Or, “I don't have the budget for an attorney for 40 hours, but I need somebody. I need somebody here because that's not my specialty.”And that happens all the time where all of a sudden, a solo general counsel becomes a five or six-attorney legal department, right, because you're right, attorneys add up very quickly. We're like rabbits. So, that's where Lawtrades comes in to help out these folks, and help out freelance attorneys, right, that also are like, “Hey, listen, I know employment law. I can help.”Corey: Do you find that the vast slash entire constituency of your customers pretend to be attorneys themselves, or is this one of those areas where, “I'm a business owner. I don't know how these law things work. I had a firm handshake and now they're not paying as agreed. What do I do?” Do you wind up providing, effectively, introduction services—since I do view you as, you know, match.com for dating with slightly fewer STDs—do you wind up then effectively acting as an—[unintelligible 00:18:47] go to talk to find a lawyer in general? Or does it presuppose that I know which end of a brief is up?Matt: There's so many parts of what you just said I want to take as well. I also liked that you didn't just say no STDs. That was very lawyerly of you. It's always, like, likely, right?Corey: Oh, yes. So, the answer to any particular level of seniority and every aspect of being an attorney is, “It depends.”Matt: That's right. That's right. It triggers me for you to say it. Ugh. So, our client base, generally speaking, our companies ranging from, like, an A round company that has a solo GC all the way up to a publicly traded company that has super robust legal department that maybe needs a bunch of paralegals, bunch of legal operations professionals, contract managers, attorneys for very niche topics, niche issues, that they're just, that is not what they want to do.So, generally speaking, that's who we service. We used to be in the SMB space. There was a very public story—my founders are really cool because they built in public and we almost went broke, actually in that space. Which, Corey, I'm happy to share that article with you. I think you'll get a kick out of it.Corey: I would absolutely look forward to seeing that article. In fact, if you send me the link, we will definitely make it a point to throw it into the [show notes 00:19:58].Matt: Awesome. Happy to do it. Happy to do it. But it's cool. The clients, I tell you what, when I was in private practice when I was in-house, I would always deal with an adverse attorney. That was always what I was dealing with.No one was ever—or a business person internally that maybe wasn't thrilled to be on the phone. I tell you what, now, when I get to talk to some of these folks, they're happy to talk to me; it's a good conversation. It really has changed my mentality from being a very adverse litigator attorney to—I mean it kind of lends itself to a shitposter, to a mean guy, to a party clown. It's a lot of fun.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at Uptycs, because they believe that many of you are looking to bolster your security posture with CNAPP and XDR solutions. They offer both cloud and endpoint security in a single UI and data model. Listeners can get Uptycs for up to 1,000 assets through the end of 2023 (that is next year) for $1. But this offer is only available for a limited time on UptycsSecretMenu.com. That's U-P-T-Y-C-S Secret Menu dot com.Corey: One area that I think is going to be a point of commonality between us is in what the in-and-out of our day jobs look like. Because looking at it from a very naive perspective, why on earth does what is effectively an attorney referral service—yes, which may or may not run afoul of how you describe yourselves; I know, lawyers are very particular about wording—Matt: Staffing [laugh].Corey: Exactly. Legal staffing. There we are. It doesn't seem to lend itself to having a, “Head of Community,” quote-unquote, which really translates into, “I shitpost on the internet.” The same story could be said to apply to someone who fixes AWS bills because in my part of the industry, obviously, there is a significant problem with people who have large surprise bills from their cloud provider, but they generally don't talk about them in public as soon as they become an even slightly serious company.You don't find someone at a Fortune 500 complaining on Twitter about how big their AWS bill is because that does horrifying things to their stock price as well as them personally, once the SEC gets involved. So, for me, it was always I'm going to be loud and noisy and have fun in the space so that people hear about me, and then when they have this problem, in the come. Is that your approach to this, or is it more or less the retconning story that I just told, and it really had its origins in, “I'm just going to shitpost. I feel like good things will happen.”Matt: Funnily enough, it's both. That's how it started. So, when I was in private practice, I was posting like crazy on—I'm going to say LinkedIn for the third time—and again, I hope somebody sends a nasty message to me about how bad LinkedIn is, which I don't think it's that bad. I think it's okay—so I was shitposting on LinkedIn before probably many folks were shitposting on LinkedIn, again like Alex, and I was doing it just because I was tired of attorneys being what we described, this old guard, buttoned up, just obnoxiously perfect version of themselves. And it eventually led itself into this career. The whole journey was wild, how I got here. Best way to describe it was a crazy trip.Corey: It really is. You also have a very different audience in some ways. I mean, for example, when you work in the legal field, to my understanding from the—or being near to it, but not within it, where you go to school is absolutely one of those things that people still bring up as a credential decades later; it's the first thing people scroll to on LinkedIn. And in tech, we have nothing like that at all. I mean, just ask anyone of the random engineers who talk about where they used to work in their Twitter bio: ex-Google, ex-Uber, et cetera.Not quite as bad as the VC space where it's, “Oh, early investor in,” like, they list their companies, which of course to my mind, just translates directly into, the most interesting thing about you is that once upon a time, you wrote a check. Which yeah, and with some VCs that definitely tracks.Matt: That's right. That's a hundred percent right. It's still like that. I actually saw a Twitter post, not necessarily about education, but about big law, about working in big law where folks were saying, “Hey, I've heard a rumor that you cannot go in-house at a company unless you worked in big law.” And I immediately—I have such a chip on my shoulder because I am not a big law attorney—I immediately jumped to it to say, “Listen, I talk to in-house attorneys all the time. I'm a former in-house attorney. You don't have to work with big law. You don't have to go to a T-14 law school.” I didn't. I went to Florida State University in Tallahassee.But I hear that to this day. And you're right, it drives me nuts because that is a hallmark of the legal industry, bragging about credentials, bragging about where I came from. Because it also goes back to that old guard of, “Oh, I came from Harvard, and I did this, and I did that,” because we love to show how great and special we are not by our actual merits, but where we came from.Corey: When someone introduces themselves to me at a party—which has happened to me before—and in their introduction, they mention where they went to law school, I make it a point to ask them about it and screw it up as many times in the rest of the evening as I can work in to. It's like they went to Harvard. Like so, “Tell me about your time at Yale.” “Oh, sorry. I must have forgotten about that.” Or, “What was the worst part about living in DC when you went to law school?” “Oh, I'm sorry. I missed that. You went to Harvard. How silly of me.”Matt: There's a law school at Dartmouth [laugh]?Corey: I know. I'm as surprised as anyone to discover these things. Yeah. I mean, again, on the one hand, it does make people feel a little off and that's not really what I like doing. But on the other, ideally, it's a little bit of a judgment nudge as far as this may not sound the way that you think it sounds when you introduce yourself to people that way.Matt: All the time. I hear that all the time. Every so often, I'll have someone—and I think a lot of the industry, maybe just the industry where I'm in, it's not brought up anymore. I usually will ask, right? “Hey, where do you come from?” Just as a conversation starter, “What firm did you practice at? Did you practice in big law? Small law?”Someone once called it insignificant law to me, which hurts because I'm part of insignificant law. I get those and it's just to start a conversation, but when it's presented to me initially, “Hey, yeah, I was at Harvard,” unprompted. Or, “I went to Yale,” or went to whatever in the T-14, you're right, it's very off-putting. At least it's off-putting to me. Maybe if someone wants to tell me otherwise, online if you went to Harvard, and someone said, “Hey, I went to Harvard,” and that's how they started the conversation, and you enjoy it, then… so be it. But I'll tell you, it's a bit off-putting to me, Corey.Corey: It definitely seems it. I guess, on some level, I think it's probably rooted in some form of insecurity. Hmm, it's easy to think, “Oh, they're just completely full of themselves,” but that stuff doesn't spring fully formed from nowhere, like the forehead of some God. That stuff gets built into people. Like, the constant pressure of you are not good enough.Or if you've managed to go to one of those schools and graduate from it, great. The constant, like, “Not everyone can go here. You should feel honored.” It becomes, like, a cornerstone of their personality. For better or worse. Like, it made me more interesting adult if it made my 20s challenging. I don't have any big-name companies on my resume. Well, I do now because I make fun of one, but that's a separate problem entirely. It just isn't something I ever got to leverage, so I didn't.Matt: I feel that completely. I come from—again, someone once told me I worked in insignificant law. And if I ever write a book, that's what I'm going to call it is Insignificant Law. But I worked the small law firms, regional law firms, and these in Tallahassee and I worked in South Florida and nothing that anyone would probably recognize in conversation, right? So, it never became something I bring up.I just say, “I'm an attorney. I do these things,” if you ask me what I do. So, I think honestly, my personality, and probably the shitposting sprung out of that as well, where I just had a different thing to talk about. I didn't talk about the prestige. I talked about the practice, I talked about what I didn't like about the practice, I didn't talk about being on Wall Street doing these crazy deals, I talked about getting my ass kicked in Ponce, Florida, up in the panhandle. For me, I've got a chip on my shoulder, but a different kind of chip.Corey: It's amazing to me how many—well, let's calls this what we are: shitposters—I talk to where their brand and the way that they talk about their space is, I don't want to say rooted in trauma, but definitely built from a place of having some very specific chips on their shoulder. I mean, when I was running DevOps teams and as an engineer myself, I wound up continually tripping over the AWS bill of, “Ha, ha. Now, you get to pay your tax for not reading this voluminous documentation, and the fine print, and with all of the appendices, and the bibliography, and tracked down those references. Doesn't it suck to be you? Da da.” And finally, it was all right, I snapped. Okay. You want to play? Let's play.Matt: That's exactly right. There's, like, a meme going around. I think it actually saw from the accounting meme account, TB4—which is stellar—and it was like, “Ha, I'm laughing because it hurts.” And it's true. That's why we all laugh at the jokes, right?I'll make jokes about origination credit, which is always an issue in the legal industry. I make jokes about the toxic work environment, the partner saying, “Please fix,” at three o'clock in the morning. And we make fun of it because everyone's had to deal with it. Everyone's had to deal with it. And I will say that making fun of it brings light to it and hopefully changes the industry because we all can see how ridiculous it is. But at least at the very beginning, we all look at it and we say, “That's funny because it hurts.”Corey: There's an esprit de corps of shared suffering that I think emerges from folks who are in the trenches, and I think that the rise of—I mean some places called the micro-influencers, but that makes me want to just spit a rat when I hear it; I hate the term—but the rise of these niche personalities are because there are a bunch of in-jokes that you don't have to be very far in to appreciate and enjoy, but if you aren't in the space at all, they just make zero sense. Like when I go to family reunions and start ranting about EC2 instance pricing, I don't get to talk to too many people anymore because oh my God, I've become the drunk uncle I always wanted to be. Goal achieved.Matt: [laugh].Corey: You have to find the right audience.Matt: That's right. There is a term, I think coin—I think it was coined by Taylor Lorenz at Washington Post and it's called a nimcel, which is, like, a niche micro-influencer. It's the worst term I've ever heard in my entire life. The nimcel [laugh]. Sorry, Taylor, it's terrible.But so I don't want to call myself a nimcel. I guess I have a group of people that enjoy the content, but you are so right that the group of people, once you get it, you get it. And if you don't get it, you may think some parts of it—like, you can kind of piece things together, but it's not as funny. But there's plenty of litigation jokes I'll make—like, where I'm talking to the judge. It's always these hypothetical scenarios—and you can maybe find it funny.But if you're a litigator who's gotten their ass kicked by a judge in a state court that just does not like you, you are not a local, they don't like the way you're presenting yourself, they don't like your argument, and they just dig you into the ground, you laugh. You laugh because you're, like, I've been there. I've had—or on the flip, you're the attorney that watched your opposing counsel go through it, you're like, “I remember that.” And you're right, it really you get such a great reaction from these folks, such great feedback, and they love it. They absolutely love it. But you're right, if you're outside, you're like, “Eh, it's kind of funny, but I don't really get all of it.”Corey: My mother approaches it this way whenever she talks to me like I have no idea what you're talking about, but you seem to really know what you're talking about, so I'm proud of you. It's like, “No, Mom, that is, like, the worst combination of everything.” It's like, “Well, are you any good at this thing?” “No. But I'm a white man, so I'm going to assume yes and the world will agree with me until proven otherwise.” So yeah, maybe nuclear physics ain't for you in that scenario.But yeah, the idea of finding your people, finding your audience, before the rise of the internet, none of this stuff would have worked just because you live in a town; how many attorneys are really going to be within the sound of your voice, hearing these stories? Not to mention the fact that everyone knows everyone's business in some of those places, and oh, you can't really subtweet the one person because they're also in the room. The world changes.Matt: The world changes. I've never had this happen. So, when I really started to get aggressive on, like, Twitter, I had already left private practice; I was in-house at that point. And I've always envisioned, I've always, I always want to, like, go back to private practice for one case: to go into a courtroom in, like, Miami, Florida, and sit there and commiserate and tell the stories of people again like I used to do—just like what you're saying—and see what everyone says. Say, “Hey, I saw you on Twitter. Hey, I saw this story on Twitter.”But in the same breath, like, you can't talk like you talk online in person, to some degree, right? Like, I can't make fun of opposing counsel because the judge is right there and opposing counsel was right there, and I'm honestly, knowing my luck, I'm about to get my ass kicked by opposing counsel. So, I probably should watch myself in that courtroom.Corey: But I'm going to revise the shit out of this history when it comes time to do my tweet after the fact. “And then everybody clapped.”Matt: [laugh]. I found five dollars outside the courtroom.Corey: Exactly. I really want to thank you for spending so much time chatting with me. If people want to learn more and follow your amazing shitpost antics on the internet, where's the best place for them to do it?Matt: Corey it's been an absolute pleasure. Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn. For everything but LinkedIn: @ItsMattsLaw. LinkedIn, just find me by my name: Matt Margolis.Corey: And we will put links to all of it in the [show notes 00:33:04]. Thank you so much for being so generous with your time. It's appreciated.Matt: I have not laughed as hard in a very, very long time. Corey, thank you so much.Corey: Matt Margolis, Head of Community at Lawtrades. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry, insulting comment that you've drafted the first time realized, oh wait, you're not literate, and then hired someone off of Lawtrades to help you write in an articulate fashion.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Bryce Matheson is a house flipper and a serial entrepreneur. He has done some crazy transactions! He bought an abandoned house and a shed from a man who was in jail for grand theft (only to find out that someone was living in the shed without the owner's knowledge)! He now is getting more into the private lending space! In college he studied IT and became very knowledgeable in that subject! He has put that education to good use in the business field! He has created 3 software programs for real estate investors and lenders to utilize. On this episode of The Freedom Chasers Podcast we talk to Bryce Matheson about flipping houses, investing in real estate, lending, and building software. Join us as we talk about Bryce's journey to financial freedom!How to reach Bryce Matheson: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/brycematheson/Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BryceMathesonWebsite: https://brycejmatheson.com/web-hosting-course/Quotes: “That's kind of where I tasted the blood in the water and that's where it just started.”“There were too many of those little things that added up.”“All those little things added up and ultimately that's, I think that's the problem and it came back to bite us.”“The banks have the biggest buildings for a reason.” - Matt “All of these different methods are tools in your toolbelt that you can use to make money.“Mostly just because it's kind of like the headache tax.”“I'm not going to just say no to free money.”“All too often people are afraid of taxes.”“There's very little downside but there's all the upside.”“I have to say “no” more than I say “yes” ”.Concepts:Bryce bought a broken down house from a guy who was in jail for grand theft! He had to communicate with him by letters!Bryce bought his house a couple years ago and he met his wife because of real estate investing!Bryce used to study IT in college but then switched to real estate when he decided to buy a house!Sometimes people over think about the house they're looking at and can think themselves out of the idea of buying the house.Bryce has a good strategy. When he gets money, he pays things he has off and invests in real estate.To not flip and sell a property, Bryce said that the interest rates would have to be super high! Bryce has started to get into lending! Right now Bryce is only lending to people locally.Bryce has a lot of opportunities but he's found that most of the time he has to say no. He wants to say no more than yes so that he's not so swamped with ideas!Time Stamps:0:00- Introduction0:31- Craziest Real Estate story or Transaction8:56- What got you into Real Estate?11:53- What was the transition into Real Estate?13:28- What was the next step?16:14- What do you like about flipping more?18:05- What did you do wrong the first time?19:57- What did you do with your cash?22:31- What would it take to hold a property and not flip it?25:52- What are the headaches of being a lender?27:10- Do you lend locally?28:45- What is your tax strategy?30:57- What is rentastic?33:01- What is the work process?26:46- What do you recommend for getting into the business of coding?41:44- What does the next 6-12 months look like for you?43:27- What is your money tracking system? 46:12- Note servicing company? 47:10- Non performing notes?48:22- What is the best way to reach out to you?49:10- ENDING

This is the last crossover episode between OMG and Sound-Up Governance, a new podcast on the Ground-Up Governance platform (www.groundupgovernance.com). In this one, Matt Fullbrook speaks with Lisa Oldridge, a Performance Strategist in Calgary with expertise in governance, ESG, and investment in startups. Lisa helps us to explore the differences between what makes a good company good and what makes a good business good, and shows us that the people are what matter most.   Matt Welcome back to Sound-Up Governance. Today's episode is the companion to the third edition of the Ground-Up Governance newsletter, which provides definitions for business, company and customer. I know I frequently use the words business and company as if they're interchangeable, even though they're often pretty different. That's fine. Of course, if I say business when I mean company, it doesn't hurt anybody or even confuse anyone too much. But still, I thought it'd be fun to talk to someone who could really help me to understand what makes a good business good, and how that's different from what makes a good company good. And of course, all of this is tied up with the needs, wants, hopes and fears of the customer. So I called my friend Lisa Oldridge, who describes herself as a performance strategist. She works with companies and boards of directors on governance, strategy, ESG performance, and more. Oh, and ESG stands for environmental, social, and governance and refers in general to stuff that's not directly related to money. Not only that, but she's the investment director at The 51 Ventures, which invests money in disruptive female-founded enterprises. Plus, in addition to being a corporate director, and a bonafide a governance nerd, she has also spent a big chunk of her life in institutional equity sales, portfolio management and research. So in other words, Lisa's spent a lot of time and energy being curious about what a good company or a good business looks like, and whether those companies or businesses are worth putting money into. And that's exactly where we'll start. When Lisa is on the outside, looking in, what gets her excited about a business, or maybe a small company that only sells a single product or service. Lisa  So there's tons of problems out there. Whether or not it needs to be solved is another question. And often you see with founders, if you're talking about really teeny companies, you know, you've seen the typical entrepreneur, they're like, "Oh, my God, we got to solve this problem!" But it's really actually not a problem for that for many people, you want to see that there's a problem that exists, and they've come up with something that will solve this problem. It doesn't have to be like the optimized version of it. You've probably also heard about MVP, Matt  MVP, or minimum viable product, or, as Lisa puts it, Lisa  We also call it the shitty first draft of whatever it is, but you probably have a bit of traction there. IP is a big one IP or thought capital or moat Matt  “Moat",” you know, just like a moat around the castle. It's something special about a business that makes it tricky for someone else to intrude on your territory by making it expensive or difficult to copy your technology, for example. Lisa  And then competition, and actually it's a bad sign when you see that there's no competition, because it's usually especially if you come in and you see a founder or group that are pitching and they're like, "oh, yeah, no, we kind of, we've come up with the thing, but nobody else has!" A, it's probably not true. And B it just gives you a sense of their capacity for understanding future pivots and the market etc. Anyway, so that's more maybe a commentary on their character or their abilities or behaviors. Matt  There's so much interesting stuff in what Lisa just said that it might be worth rewinding, 10 or 15 seconds just to hear it again. It made a huge lightbulb go off for me. To Lisa, an entrepreneur's understanding of their business can provide an important glimpse inside their character. We'll get back to that in a sec. I wanted a better understanding about this idea that creating something new with no competition might not be all it's cracked up to be. I mean, we've all heard the term first mover's advantage. Isn't that a thing? Shouldn't it be a good thing to be the first one to come up with an idea? I even said to her, "Lisa, I'm trying to do something new and fresh in governance. Am I messing up somehow?" Lisa  Let me ask you this. Why is first mover advantage? The answer to everything? It's not! I think there's a presumption sometimes "Oh, I've seen somebody else with that. Therefore, it's not going to work. Right?" I think value proposition is the thing that you're selling or bending or creating or innovating on, it's as much where and how it lands as what it is. I had a mentor that that told me, a guy that I worked with, he was awesome. He was like, "Oldridge, the difference between being early and wrong is nothing!" Right? Even ideas that are completely original, still do have competition. And so I guess it's not a red flag to me if someone hasn't figured out who the person who's also doing... I don't know. lavender striped pogo sticks, but who's doing pogo sticks and who's painting toys, lavender. And so what does that look like? Because it also tells you about the customer! One thing that we one thing that I do see is novelty, almost taking precedence over will this actually be used by more than a few people, right? I would rather see a concept or like somebody innovating on a proven thing or direction or widget, but doing it in such a way that's original in the sense that it's adding more value to the end customer. Matt  So even for someone like Lisa, who studies companies at their earliest stages, looking for the coolest new ideas, the biggest opportunities for innovation and investment, there might not be a difference between being first and being wrong? It made me think of the songs or books or art that I love the most. Sure, there's something fresh and original about them, but they also, you know, give a sense of familiarity. Building on what came before them. Sorry, I'm getting a bit abstract here. But the insight for new businesses is pretty profound. Before we go too much further, Lisa use the term "value proposition." It's one of those terms most of us have heard before, but what does it mean exactly? Lisa  And value proposition it's business canvas, it's like the middle of it, like the jelly in the donut! It's what your product or service or widget or thing does for your customers to make things better, or to make them feel like things are better. Matt  And this is how the customer ties into all this. A good business doesn't have to be completely new, it just needs to make the customer feel like things are better than they were without whatever product or service the business offers them. But let's get back to what Lisa said earlier about the character of the leaders involved. We know she looks at the competitive landscape, the value proposition and so on. But what else is she looking for Lisa  The leadership and the team attributes. You know, are they dedicated? Do they have the horsepower and the grit and all that good stuff? And then I would probably single out the CEO or the founder, like the person who's in charge, as almost like a separate thing, because the earlier the stage of the company, the less actual crunchy information you have. And you're looking for leadership attributes, but then also just you know, the whole humility and brains. Matt  All of this started to make so much sense. Sometimes from the outside, we can't really see the nuts and bolts that show us the potential of the business itself. So we need to rely on what we really can judge: character, humility, brains. So I wondered if the potential of a person matters so much, could a great leader maybe offset concerns about a bad business or a bad company? In other words, to someone like Lisa, what matters more the person or the business? Lisa  Could you have, you know, like a superstar person with a not so great company? And what's better that or the inverse? And definitely the former. And that works all the way up with a you know, with with large organizations, I think probably even moreso. A great business with someone at the helm, that's not great, will eventually run out of momentum. You could still make money. In the meantime, though. Matt  Whoa! We'll take on A founder with a B business over the inverse. In fact, a great business with bad leadership is at best a way for an investor to make a quick buck before the business dies. And you know, what's extra cool? In some cases, emphasizing the people side can create special superpowers for the company and the business. Lisa  If you're talking about a business inside that company, or a vertical inside a company, or product line, or some kind of an offering. More often than not these days, you're talking about a bunch of people in a company that do a thing. And it's maybe different to the rest of the things that the company does, right? One of the organizations that I sit on the board of has had the situation where, you know, they did a raise, and then they acquired this business unit. And it's really cool hearing about the first couple of days about where it was like, "Okay, you're here because we want you not the thing, but we want YOU!" And over and above that being a good acquisition on paper, can you imagine what that did to the sense of, you know, engagement, and therefore performance, of the company, etc, etc. So it's like, and it doesn't require a lot of investment. It's not like somebody had to write a big check after the fact sort of have these people come on and be super excited about coming into work the next day. Matt  And there you have it, right from someone who's in the middle of it, studying, assessing, developing and buying businesses and companies and thinking about customers and value proposition, competition and all the other things that can influence whether an idea will succeed or fail. What excites Lisa the most? Character, humility, brains, the people who run these businesses and companies. And emphasizing the importance of those people can further supercharge the organization's performance. In the next episode of Sound-Up Governance, I'll speak with Nick Chambers about communities and stakeholders. He's an executive search professional and governance expert who specializes in purpose-driven organizations. Thanks for listening.

Today's episode of OMG is actually a crossover with a new podcast, Sound-Up Governance, which is part of the new Ground-Up Governance platform. Episode 1 features an interview with Tiziana Casciaro, author of Power, for All: How it Really Works, and Why it's Everyone's Business. If you like what you hear, please consider heading over to groundupgovernance.com and subscribing.   SCRIPT The next three episodes of OMG are gonna be REALLY different. Well, actually, they're not episodes of OMG at all, but episodes of a brand new podcast called Sound-Up Governance, which is part of my new Ground-Up Governance platform. Sound-Up Governance features interviews with experts who don't necessarily come from the regular pool of corporate governance “gurus” so to speak. Instead, they are experts in stuff that's really important to doing corporate governance well, and can help us to understand what's really going on in our organizations. First up is Professor Tiziana Casciaro, who literally wrote the book on power and authority. If you like what you hear, head over to groundupgovernance.com to learn more and consider subscribing.   Matt  Welcome to Sound-Up Governance, part of the ground up governance network. My name is Matt Fullbrook. And in today's episode I speak with my friend Tiziana Casciaro, Professor of Organizational Behavior at the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto. We launched the Ground-Up Governance newsletter this week with the most fundamental concepts in corporate governance: authority and power. I mean, what could be more essential to corporate governance then trying to understand who's allowed to do what and what it takes for one person to influence another person? Luckily for us, Professor Casciaro, recently co authored a book with Harvard's Julie Battilana called Power for All: How it Really Works, and Why it's Everyone's Business. And just so I don't mess anything up, why don't we let her tell us a bit more?   Tiziana  It's a book intended for all in this world, not only in Canada, not only the US, but really, truly everywhere, who have contended with power, have struggled with it been frustrated by it, while understanding that it's important for them to have it, and know how to use it. And we have tried to give tools and understandings that allow people to grow in their influence, but also learn how to deploy it for good.   Matt  It never much occurred to me to think very hard about what power really is, or how, if at all, it's different from authority, or why, for example, people in really visible or influential positions sometimes fail to make a difference, am I missing somethingZ   Tiziana  Power is often very much confused with authority, or or I should say, authority is often confused with power. They are different, however. Authority is the formal right to issue orders and directives and make decisions. And it comes from the position you occupy in a formal structure. So your role puts you in a place where you get to make certain decisions. Power is different, however. Power is the ability to influence the behavior of other people. And you can influence them sometimes through your formal authority. If I have the right to decide whether you're going to be promoted or not, that gives me power over you. It's not just authority, but it's actual power. Why? Because you want something from me: a promotion. I have control over your access to this thing you want because I have the right to decide whether you will be promoted or not. And therefore I exercise influence over you. That's what power is made of. It's made of controlling your access to something you desire.  But you see, already in the definition of power, that I may control, access to something you want without having formal authority.   Matt   So can a person create power? Does that even make sense?   Tiziana  Absolutely makes sense. A person can increase their power, if they understand this simple principle of where power comes from. If I know that power comes from controlling access to resources you want, all I need to accrue more power is understand what is it that you want. And that's where people become very confused between the notion of formal authority and the power broadly conceived, formal authority has to do with something very specific. I have certain decision rights in a certain context over certain things. But that covers only a small part of what you might want, you might not just want a promotion, you might want for instance, to be managed by somebody who understands you, that understands your gifts, your talents, your complexity as a human being, values it and makes you feel good by giving you a platform where you can be your best self every day at work. Those are much more psychological resources, that are not written down in any formal organizational structure. They are much more subtle, and yet they are extremely important to people, they drive who they want to associate themselves with, whether they I want to be led by you or not, whether I will trust the decision you make. And even if you make a decision through your formal authority, and the decision comes at me, your actual underlying power - so,  your ability to influence my behavior - will come down to how willing am I to execute on that decision?   Matt   Okay, now we're really getting somewhere. No wonder some people have authority, but still can't get anyone to do anything. Power isn't only about controlling access to tangible resources, in some cases is way more important to just make someone feel good, feel valued and motivated. Since Ground-Up Governance is ultimately about corporations, how does all this apply in a typical corporate structure with a board, a CEO...in other words, a model that's got a well defined, built in leadership hierarchy. Once again, here's Professor Tiziana Casciaro.   Tiziana   The problem of the hierarchical structure you're describing is that it tends to concentrate power in the hands of very few people. And what we know from research in all kinds of disciplines is that power concentration tends to be bad in the long run, not only for the majority of people who don't have power, and therefore are just on the receiving end of the decisions of the few. But it can also be detrimental to the few in power, to the extent that having that much control can lead them to abuse their power. They lose sight of their unilateral capacity to shape the life of others and the other people who are receiving these decisions. Sometimes they become resentful of this asymmetry. And for good reason, if they're not unreasonable in becoming resentful. And when you have resentful people that you're leading, it's not good. Because they might push back, they do push back, the moment they have a little bit of room to show you that you're abusing your power. And I don't like it.   Matt  Uh oh So, concentrating power at the top of an organization sounds risky. What about a board of directors? How do power and authority work there?   Tiziana  So, you are a director on a board. And and because of that role, you will have certain rights to issue directives for the company and its leadership, and jointly with the other board members, you can come up with certain decisions that then presumably get implemented. So imagine one of these board members that in addition to the formal authority that accrues to them, by virtue of occupying that position on the board, they have something else going on for them. Maybe they have extra good connections to a stakeholder that the management of the company cares about, or that the board cares about. And they have to go through me to get to those guys in that stakeholder groups. In that case, I will end up having more influence over the decisions of the board and the behavior of the executives that leave the company, because I've got something that they want. And I control it in the sense that there aren't many alternative ways for them to get to those stakeholders, they kind of have to go through me.   Matt   It almost seems like part of the problem is the way that boards are structured, I asked Professor Casciaro if we should be trying to build boards so that every director somehow has an equal amount of power. I mean, maybe that would be the ideal condition for making good decisions and balancing everyone's interests.   Tiziana  The reality is that resources are unequally distributed across each and every one of us. And it's unavoidable that you will not have the quality you're describing on the board. But what you can do is to create decision making processes that make it harder for people to go off and establish relationships of influence that are disconnected from the goal that the board is presumably pursuing. So you can have decision making structures where it's one board member, one vote, that you have a way to express your preferences that does not allow easily for you to be swayed by others, which could protect you from their influence when it stems from things that have nothing to do with a decision at hand.   Matt  All right, so maybe it isn't possible to distribute power equally, but we can just use processes that balance things out a little. That's what we should be working on right?    Tiziana   But then you lose something when you do that. When you create a structure in which the decision is made almost independently by each board member, what you lose is the learning and the ability to engage with ideas other than your own that can actually and actually do oftentimes improve decision making. I can come in with my own independent judgment, which is all fine and dandy because it becomes not subject to your undue influence as my fellow board member. But I don't get to hear your argument, I don't get to really make my own decision better, because I don't get your input. So that's what what you're the tension, you're juggling here, you're navigating this pull toward independence, but also want to secure the beauty of multiple minds, struggling with a complex decision, where each and every one of us individually, cannot really understand every component.   Matt   We've learned how authority and power are different, and that people can in fact, take steps to generate power. We've all heard about the potential corrupting effects of power socially - morally, even - can we take steps to, you know, use our power for good?   Tiziana Ultimately, you're going to have to contend with what you have done with your life. What have you impacted? What are you leaving behind? And this is a level of insight into yourself that sometimes escapes us when we are in the middle of the action. We are the CEO of a company, complex stuff coming at us from every which way, and we kind of forget that actually, we want to accomplish something here. In addition to being rich and famous. We want to accomplish something other than that. So it's very important for people to understand that there are many goals you can accomplish. And power is essential to accomplishing all of them. You cannot get anything done without power. It's a form of energy in many ways that allows you to change the world around you, and move it in a direction you think is worthwhile. So you have to empower, for lack of a better word, people to acquire the power they need to pursue those objectives. And sometimes the people that have formal authority are not the right people. They're not pursuing the right objectives anymore. Maybe they started out with dreams and ambitions that were perfectly good and constructive, but along the way they lost sight of them. So the book tries to give everybody an opportunity to understand how power works so that they can acquire it, and then set up their power - and this is something that boards actually are very important contributors to - set up their power so that they don't get lost along the way. Because power does go to our head. It does. It does contaminate our purpose. It does distract us from our limitations and our need for other people to help us along the way. It makes us hubristic, it makes us self focused. So you need to not only give people tools to acquire power, but also give them tools to keep it in check.   Matt   Thank you for listening to episode number one of Sound-Up Governance. The fact that you're listening means you're a Ground-Up Governance subscriber. So thank you sincerely for your support and engagement. Next week, I'll speak with Lieutenant Colonel Jamahl Evans, Sr. of the US Marines as we work through our next batch of words: accountability, delegate and duty. If you want to reach out with a question or insight or an interesting story, send an email or voice memo to soundup@groundupgovernance.com. And we may feature you in a future episode. Thank you for tuning in. See you next week.

On this episode of Forward Ever: Leading in Challenging Times host Gary Shorman speaks with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Kansas president and CEO Matt All.

Now that the WordPress acquisition market has cooled a bit, it's time to stoke the fire on all things Gatsby and JAMStack-y-ness….again. Don't let Full Site Editing steal all of the thunder, there's still so much happening around headless WordPress and the ability to integrate 3rd party APIs to take the place of plugins. Look, I know it's a polarizing thought process to some of us, but if we want WordPress to continue to grow — we need to give it some room for new use cases. I'm joined by Alexandra Spolato to talk about her company GatsbyWPThemes and how this hotness comes with some red hot opportunity. If you're wondering how to make money in the WordPress theme space headed into 2022, look no further than this conversation. Get schooled on the technology and learn how the heck she found her co-founder along with their recipe to success splitting the responsibilities. Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Alexandra: JAMstack is really the new hotness. Now it brings speed, which is an essential law with ACO, with the new Google measures about about some core vetoes for us that now are really essential. So we've we've Gatsby and JAMstack. Really really super fast website. [00:00:20] You check. Pages instant, it's static. brings all sorts of security because your database is not exposed, but have more flexibility great developer experience because now most developer. Learning react, not PHP. So people want to learn. We react. So it brings a lot of advantages. [00:00:42] Matt: This episode of the Matt report is brought to you by foo plug-ins or specifically foo plugins, foo gallery. You can find it@foo.gallery. There's a new pro commerce plan, and it gives you two way integration into WooCommerce. So if you want to sell photos, you can sell photos with foo.gallery and woo commerce. [00:01:04] It makes your job. Super easy, especially if you're a photographer. I just had family photos taken the other day and I looked at the big conglomerate website that my photographer sent me. He said, man, it would look so much better if you. Right through WooCommerce, especially if you use something like foo gallery, check out food, art gallery, and learn more about their pro commerce plan. [00:01:26] Check out their WooCommerce integration. They have a great way to watermark and protect your photo galleries. Check them out and thank them for sponsoring the show. It's food, art gallery go-to food art gallery today. Start selling images with foo gallery and. [00:01:44] Now that the WordPress acquisition market has cooled off a bit. It's time to stoke the fire on all things Gatsby in jams, tackiness. Again. Don't let full site editing, steal all of the thunder. There's still so much happening around headless WordPress and the ability to integrate third party API APIs to take the place of plugins and look.  [00:02:02] I know it's a polarizing thought process to some of us. But if we want WordPress to continue to grow, we need to give it some room for new use cases.  [00:02:11] I'm joined by Alexandra Salado to talk about her company Gatsby WP themes over at Gaspe WP themes. Dot com and how this hotness comes with some red hot opportunity. If you're wondering how to make money in WordPress theme space headed into 2022. Look, no further than this conversation. Get schooled on the technology and learn how the heck she found her co-founder along with the recipe to success, splitting the responsibilities.  [00:02:36] This is the Matt report a podcast for the resilient and business builder i've launched something new you might have heard called the wp minute and you can join us as a member to get into our private discord server and take part in crafting the weekly wordpress news check out buy me a coffee.com/matt report join and thanks to food plugins fu gallery for sponsoring my work here on the mat report and the wp minute okay here's [00:03:00] alexandra's blotto on jamstack and Gasby wordpress themes [00:03:04] Alexandra: JAMstack is really the new hotness. Now it brings speed, which is an essential law with ACO, with the new Google measures about about some core vetoes for us that now are really essential. So we've we've Gatsby and JAMstack. Really really super fast website. [00:03:24] You check. Pages instant, it's static. brings all sorts of security because your database is not exposed, but have more flexibility great developer experience because now most developer. Learning react, not PHP. So people want to learn. We react. So it brings a lot of advantages. [00:03:46] . Then in my dream, Always been to, to make a product in some development, to be honest, I really wanted them to create the way I went into development because I'm a creative person. And when I was in what brands I wanted to do themes, but the market was crowded. [00:04:01] And then I discover, I begin working with react NSC. It was, this is my bad, this is what I want to do. [00:04:07] We need premium themes with nice designs with options. So people. Especially developers or agency can have some things. They can, they, they can reuse pre-made designs, but not only that, because myself, I use my own themes for projects to not reinvent the wheel. I have a developer team that I can modify everything, but it contains another themes that get all the data and all the options and And I work really faster with that. [00:04:39] Matt: Here's what I see. I'm not a developer and the WordPress world is still heavy on the, the development talk, right? [00:04:47] The interest of WordPress is still largely for developers. First and foremost, and I see a lot of people. Hey, this whole like learn JavaScript, deeply thing. Gutenberg, Gatsby. I feel like some people there's a camp of people who are like, oh, that's that's too technical. Like I can't even enter in WordPress anymore. [00:05:08] Because it's no longer just modify some HTML and CSS and know a little bit of PHP lightly. Like that's how I got into the WordPress world. So I could kind of relate with that, but I'm not a developer. So I haven't been practicing this skill for like the last decade. What's your thoughts on somebody from the outside, just getting into WordPress development? [00:05:27] Is it that much of a challenge or if they're starting fresh, you kind of just learn this language and your. [00:05:33] Alexandra: So is that? [00:05:33] different type of developers and What you want to do myself? I'm self-taught then I, when I begin with WordPress, I did have not shaman and CSS. I just began taking themes and playing with them. And. Yeah, the design sense. So deep things begin to work and I begin to learn as GMs, CSS, and begin to, to my themes and, and I love, and I discovered I'm a developer and I love that.[00:06:00]  [00:06:00] So I wanted to go deeper and I wanted more. So I did a JavaScript bootcamp and I react and I, that was that's me. Okay. Now there is a, of a type of developers and there is WordPress implementers. Doesn't that blob, but they do great things to Wednesday address to work different type of clients. I think. So I think there is place and things for really different type of person. [00:06:26] Like there is different type of developers we're in front then backend there's dev ops people [00:06:32] and now we have this possibility of the wing doing jump stack. So no people is a great thing we've worked with.  [00:06:39] It depends on who you are and why you want to go. For me, it has been an opening. Yeah. And now I'm very creating a product in reacting, never expected that 10 years ago. So [00:06:49] Matt: What was the job? You mentioned you, you took a JavaScript course. What was that course for folks who might be interested in it? [00:06:55] Alexandra: it was in Barcelona and it was in Spanish. So it was a bootcamp in russula the Skylab I'm, I'm a, I have to that language one, French one is Spanish. So I speak English as you see, but taking one in Spanish, it was a burden less for me, for my brain learning that, but it was a great one. It was freelance full time, full stack. [00:07:16] So it was react. No, they, everything. And zip center. It was more to find a job. So all of them find a job at the end. So bootcamps are a really great, I think in my case, it was more to have to learn new things, to have more fun, developing and doing new things and flex to that. I'm there. So yeah, some bootcamps are nice. [00:07:38] I think my opinion, it was in person. It was not online.  [00:07:42] Matt: Sure when we had our pre-interview, we talked about this being your very first product, that's not your first foray into a business because you've been running a business. But talk, talk to me about this whole first product thing, any fear around that, and how did you prepare yourself to launch your first. [00:08:00] Alexandra: Oh not fear. No. And I just been. The path it's interesting. It happened what happened, even if it doesn't the work or whatever, I have learned so much at a great time, as I say them are creative. So creating a product is, is great. I am. I had a lot of fun enjoy doing it. I saw I'm very lucky because I didn't want it to do it alone. [00:08:26] When we begin with with Zach, but then I really needed a partner to develop with and I found he spent harm on Twitter. I knew where before from word gap in various she's polished. And she lived in various I contacted her and she was immediately okay. She already had a thin business in forest, but she wanted to do new things. [00:08:47] And especially in JavaScript, she was more with view and she, she learned react with me and she's super talented in design and in coding, in everything. We met at Gatsby days in London when I was doing a talk [00:09:00] and we begin the next day immediately. And it was, yes, a lot of fun. Enjoy Zen. We are not marketers. [00:09:09] So for the lounge to clot off more times than we thought, and when we decide, okay, we are going to launch, then you realize all the little things that you have not done in coding, in documentation, I was taking care of the commercial part, so, okay. For sales first. [00:09:27] we choose a Stripe, but then, oh, okay. [00:09:30] As a reason, all these data protection things and taxis and all, or no, I don't want to deal with legal things.  [00:09:37] So you have all these things to think. And, and before I think before you decide, okay, now we are going to launch you don't think about them. And they said go, oh, there is that. That's not the fun  [00:09:54] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, worry about to sell this thing. And now we have to do support. I forgot about.  [00:10:00] Alexandra: Yes. I also allowed the support, a website with bathroom circles that I think it's also Ballina was responsible of the documentation. And she did an amazing work on that. It was really to document well things. And is there any, so they, we pushed the button, to, to, to, to say. Okay. [00:10:21] Now it's slides a burden. [00:10:23] It was really, really something. And we had no idea our sales going to what was going to happen. But the first day I happened to have the five minutes. So it was really a nicer and I sign  [00:10:36] Matt: talk to me about just picking these tools really quick. I know that I think a lot of WordPress people immediately go to , oh, I'm going to, I'm going to launch a theme or a plug-in business. I'm gonna. Well, what's been in the news recently, easy digital downloads. Maybe they pick woo commerce, the deliver the product. [00:10:53] And then some folks who are like, Hey, I'm going to do support. They might be picking, BB press or they might be doing slack or something like that. You chose two fairly different tools. I love circle. I think it's a fantastic tool. I've never used your merchant before. Why not something that was attached directly to WordPress. [00:11:11] Was there some overhead there that you were like, yeah, I don't even want to deal with that side of it on. [00:11:14] Alexandra: But first I wanted to, to do the sales website. We have the project, with gets you WordPress. So it's not your WordPress where we don't have each other downloads, et cetera. And all the thing that even, I don't know if it's digital downloads take care of the taxis and, and data protection. For me as you think as really a nightmare [00:11:39] is there an about, about the support? I know a lot of people now are on discord or slack and. Slack is nice, but what do you want to make part? If people ask questions, then if you want to retrieve the message for other people, that will be, that can be useful unless the kids have been version. [00:11:58] It doesn't work for me. [00:12:00] Slack works better. For example, I am a team from my agency and then I ask the people on slack. That's different. This is nice on so far for community. But not for support, and when you want to, to have something well done with people can reach into the message, et cetera. [00:12:15] So I searched, there is discourse. That was great. And it's very sort of use that. And I discovered circle because I am, I'm also at both the courses. I hate tomatoes and I love this this courses with Peter. And I think it's really nice. [00:12:32] So I just search for what they need, and so,  [00:12:37] Matt: It's nice to see people in the WordPress space. So I've been talking to a lot more, no code, low code people on this podcast and, circle. Third party merchants, web flow. Like this is what everyone else is using. It's it's only really in the WordPress world where you just find everyone saying, I will not use anything unless it's GPL and I can find it from wordpress.org. [00:12:58] So it's nice to see, tools working really well. And you voting with your dollars because it's common sense. It doesn't have to glue into word press. If it's solving your need it's, it's good. And I just want to highlight that because I think it's, it's sort of understated with a lot of folks these days, or maybe even some folks in the WordPress world are afraid to admit it. [00:13:18] I'm running a discord server for my membership at the WP minute and I'm just like, I love it. It's fantastic. Of course, there's the fear that they get bought up by Microsoft, but you know, I'll deal with that when I get there. How has the marketing gone since it's been, what roughly, well, how many months has it been? [00:13:34] Like five, six  [00:13:35] Alexandra: three months, three months. [00:13:36] we launched every bottle that we launched on the 3rd of June at the beginning of the summer. So we didn't choose this day. We were just ready then, but there'll be less bucket is that's not the best moment for lunch, but whatever.  [00:13:54] Matt: And, and how, and what, what are your plans? Now you, so summertime is famously very low in sales. I mean, just speaking from experience, it's very low in sales. Everyone's out. COVID, I don't know what's happening in your part of the world in America. A lot of people went outside cause it was the summertime and they were ready to ready to go. [00:14:12] And now I, already seeing, even podcast listens are starting to go back up because everyone's like, Hey, summer's done. We're back to work, starting to become a fall, et cetera, et cetera. So anyway, getting to that famously a low season in the summertime. What's your plans now going into sort of October and the holiday season. [00:14:29] Alexandra: Okay though, for us, it was not only is a seminar, but what happens it's and one thing, when you launch a product and you begin, of course, you don't really make enough money to live only on that. So for me, this summer has been super active because I had tons of. Freelance work, and really, really there's been some more heavy peer relationship. [00:14:52] My carrier, it was terrible. So I didn't take holidays or nothing, but we could not really work more on the things, but that's good [00:15:00] because I realized that, okay, that's really. I crave and want to work on, and realize that, okay, it's, that's my baby. I really want to work on that. So now I'm going to really put my, my, my, all my time on that and Paulina too. [00:15:15] So we realized.  [00:15:17] Matt: up the role? How do you split up the responsibilities before you continue? How do you split the responsibilities? Who does, what on the. [00:15:22] Alexandra: Okay. We are both developers and designers . Paulina is is better than me at something sad, debugging and tracking documentation. She's really great developer. And. 100% the proper, and she's designed design to me, I'm a developer, but I also, as a business side I'm more extrovert ones that like yes, to talk to here in podcast she will do blog posts and they will do videos too, to show you the, but the great thing is we agree on most of the things and and we. [00:15:54] It has been a flow since the. [00:15:55] beginning. And I think that's very rare and very precious to to have, so we didn't think it, it just thing has been flowing between us. So now we talk, okay. I do that, that then Yeah. So marketing. Market neither her or neither me. So we have the Bridgette we are, which is, she is great. [00:16:15] And we really love her feeders that somebody was part of the team. She's taking care of Twitter. And I have my life partner, Darko is taking care now of SEO, of main marketing of all that. We are preparing that now, because we realize it's not enough to have a good product. You have to promote, you have to market because. [00:16:41] This is baby doesn't work alone. [00:16:43] Matt: Yeah. [00:16:43] Alexandra: So we, we had a really lot of sales of first month Zan. Yes. [00:16:47] July, August. And as you say, yes, summer is really calm, even in the tweaking, the matching subscription it began to get accepted. At first is really dead. So yes, we have already things to do, do a, we are planning to do also webinars making these team and make some tutorials to meet. [00:17:08] Matt: W I think one of the hot trends now besides getting acquired from, from like hosting companies. Cause it seems like all these plugging companies here now are just getting acquired by bigger players is as knocking on the door of like, a hosting company maybe like a strata WP who focuses on like headless WordPress or static WordPress, stuff like that. [00:17:31] What about that route? Have you been thinking about, maybe I can do. Even like this free theme as a framework. I know some people don't like that word, but bring it in as a framework to a hosting company, be like, Hey, partner up with us, include this as part of your suite of services for your hosting company or for your hosting customers. [00:17:50] And then, oh, by the way, just let them know that we have a pro version if they, if they want something else. Is that, is that something that is maybe too far off or like not on the radar yet? Or is that  [00:17:59] Alexandra: [00:18:00] Oh, [00:18:00] Matt: want to. [00:18:02] Alexandra: I have not think about it, but it can be an idea. you you'll give me ideas. I'm very close from WP and gene because of course , that was at Gatsby. Karen Mason I'm, I'm, I'm really close to them towards the folks that work there. I was thinking, I was thinking. I was very inspired by by Genesis and studio press, but the way of doing things. [00:18:27] And I think the people that can use it, it's, people's that want quality. We want things that don't do, it's not a multi popper films. I can Tim forest, not as I do one things they do well. And we have themes for everything and also. This is the type of people that use it. They're like even if they don't 3d codes, they like to. [00:18:52] enter in code and, and modify things themselves. [00:18:56] So, for me, it's a, it's a great great model. And I was working with Genesis when I was in WordPress. I was I was a Genesis developer too. So, and so and WP engine as all noses to your breasts themes that Brian Gardner now is that WP engine two. So I don't know if say I, if there is ideas that come, why not now we are beginning. [00:19:18] So we will see. Yes, everything is open. [00:19:22] Matt: So we've talked a lot about like how to develop these themes or like how you thought about the development of it and like Gatsby and JavaScript and all the stuff in the WordPress world when it comes to marketing, understanding who your customer is, is one of the most critical pieces. You've mentioned like Genesis and studio. [00:19:41] That crowd of users, they were all fairly technical. Cause you're doing like hooks and actions, filters, like all these things. And you're always like modifying the functions, PHP file. They w you know, people who were born from those days and that. We're not the people who like guts started using Elementor where all it was, was like a drag and drop interface. [00:19:59] Have you started to really think critically about who your customer is? Is it more technical? Is it more of like an agency that would be purchasing your product and not, sort of somebody who wants to launch a pizza shop website and they're just like, give me Gatsby. Like, they wouldn't even know how to do this yet. [00:20:17] Have you. [00:20:17] Alexandra: Yes, yes, no, I really think it's. More for professionals. I don't say that the professional can advise you to know that they've of people that we wanted. We'd be more an agency, a developer that want to, to enjoys a mix of WordPress where we've we've to It's not, yes. The person, I think who launches pizza, burbs even on know about Gatsby. [00:20:45] So, so yes, and Zay they'll have to be super technical because if you follow our recommendation, you don't need to know coding, but you need to use a console. You need to install, know the [00:21:00] gaps between style, get two of your score to settle, get, and everything is explained. [00:21:06] Every beat of things you Have Right into Consolo into editorial. You it's to be based. So that's why they think of what people of Genesis that and a about three Dar website with all these tutorial or you. [00:21:20] notice recipes. I think this type of people will love to work this way. And it's not code because you don't need to call, but you need to do the things that can afraid some other type of things.  [00:21:34] And then more technical people of course will do much more things than what they have no dice into support of the client. We have. There is people that are already technical and that technical questions at that come here.  [00:21:50] Matt: One of the, I can't remember because time is so elusive these days. I don't know where times time span was, but famously I think like a year ago Matt Mullenweg. Sort of had like a little open dialogue with one of  [00:22:07] Alexandra: bill, man, from from from Netlify.  [00:22:10] Matt: right and about like this whole, like JAMstack versus WordPress, people like people still struggle to get the average person still struggles to get WordPress up and running. Even if they have like a one-click button in their hosting panel, they still are challenged with that. JAMstack is still going through. [00:22:28] A hundred times more challenging. Like if you ask the normal person to do the console stuff and even maybe some power users, they might struggle with that. Do you see the JAMstack world getting a, getting easier from your point of view? Like, are they making it a little bit easier for folks or look, these are just the things we have to put up with to, to boot up against. [00:22:50] Alexandra: I remember I was talking for people from the Gatsby team and they say, yeah, Is there is a lot of things, that are seemed out there. He seems very struggling, but they I've been observing WordPress. [00:23:03] So it's a good thing. So I think it will take time, but yes, I think it will become JAMstack it's really takings a web, so it would become easier, but it's into their proper things. So. And I think people like me, we develop the themes and that will grow and it will be other people's that will develop morphemes and weave ideas to make it simpler. [00:23:31] And Gatsby will also make things to integrate better with a CMS like WordPress. I think that will come. Yes, honestly, but.  [00:23:41] Matt: When you say JAMstack is, is sort of, winning the web or taking over the web, is there a particular, is it because developers are liking that sort of approach better? Or is there something really powerful for the end user? That like the visitor of the website, the buyer of the product who is in an [00:24:00] e-commerce site or something like that. [00:24:01] Is there something consumer facing that is a real advantage in that? [00:24:07] Alexandra: Yes, it's both. I think, yes. Developers love it, but user, just for example, now I have a. A client. Now we are building a huge website about traveling to know a sort of travel advisor. We are featuring five custom post type featuring that? [00:24:21] People will make a search and they get fitter. We, for many, many criteria's Yeah. For a lot of images. And he didn't know about WordPress. He didn't know about about JAMstack and. I explained him how it goes. He said, oh my God said, solve all my problems. Speed security. Although then, and even if somebody is not technical, show them a Gatsby, your next website and shows the speed and change page is just instantaneous. [00:24:51] And then explain them. The security's improved because we were static website, a hacker jet, and just the face, your website. He will not touch it at the base. And even if your WordPress is down, your city is up, you will not be down if it's static. Then yes. And the speed for SEO. It's crazy. that's super important now and to flexibility. [00:25:14] So you can you can have your content also marketing page, the blog from WordPress, but perhaps you prefer having a Shopify. Oh, big commerce. Even if we have a will covers, so you can have your shop on Shopify you can have some data in a, in a Google sheets and things that come from other API and all that in a consistent theme, in one website. [00:25:43] Matt: Yeah. That's, that's the exciting part. That's what like the whole, the whole like WordPress crashing, but my website still being up, like, that's all you need to tell  [00:25:52] Alexandra: Yes. Okay.  [00:25:54] Matt: I like perfect. That's exactly what a. [00:25:57] Alexandra: Yes. You can crush a WordPress. You can destroy your WordPress and in your files, you're sitting there.  [00:26:04] Matt: All right. So for the listener today, if, if they want to get started with, with Gatsby or with your theme, it's Gatsby, WP themes.com, Gatsby, WP themes.com, go and visit that site. Anything else they should prepare before they had purchased? Like what should they have? Should they have a special hosting account before? [00:26:22] Alexandra: Yes, we have interns on the dock. There is a link, I think, I think, yes. What you should do prepare your computer because he has one of our fears, but it didn't happen. It's they need to [00:26:40] they need to prepare their computer. And nobody has a problem with that and different on mark and on windows. Everything is under the Gatsby, the commendation. So we explain it on our documentation and we link it to get me. So is that. They can do that before buying, because somebody was [00:27:00] suddenly is going to have, oh, is that too complicated for me? [00:27:02] It will not be good. So after that, yes, I can. And then just, they can read the documentation and we are going to Vince is three themes, so they can play with that. It will have nods options, nods comments not also fancy things, but it would be totally, totally usable where they want it to say.  [00:27:28] Matt: Bye. Bye bye. Go buy the theme  [00:27:30] Alexandra: Yes. Exactly. Exactly.  [00:27:33] Matt: WP themes. Calm Alexandra, where else can folks say thanks on the web,  [00:27:40] Alexandra: to say thanks? Oh my yes, we have a Twitter. It's art. WP [00:27:53] Matt: we will link it up in the show notes. We'll have a link. [00:27:58] Alexandra: that's, that's better ESN visits. We have the support website we've circle, which is nice as I can say, can subscribe that and subscribed as a website because this is where we are going to send a free team and also goodies, and also in our newsletter. Now we are going to begin also to inform people about things about JAMstack. [00:28:21] For example, now we have the. Just get to be camp just happen and say announced gods before, which will have SSL, server-side rendering and many things. And of course, as soon as it's stable, we will implement it in, in our themes. [00:28:40] Matt: I love me some server side rendering. Tell ya. I don't know what it does, but it sounds powerful and it sounds fast. And that's what I like. Gatsby WP themes.com. Alexandra. Thanks for doing the show today. Everyone else has report.com. Matt report.com/subscribe. Join the mailing list. Don't forget to support the show by heading on over to buy me a coffee.com/matt report. [00:29:01] Buy me a coffee.com/maryport report. That's where you can get connected to our membership powered discord. I love it. You want to be part of the weekly news, check it out. Buy me coffee.com/matt report. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. We'll see. In the next episode. ★ Support this podcast ★

As designers or developers — even product makers — when WordPress is your hammer, everything looks like a nail. WordPress is certainly in an inflection point. Where as the software is evolving, read: gutenberg + fullsite editing, the community of users grapple with what WordPress really is. I feel like that's a statement which has lingered in the air for a few years now. When you unlock it's power of custom post types and fields with a dash of REST API magic, the CMS can become a neural network for your data. Yet with an interface that I struggle to drag a single block into the 3 column of my page layout. Today's guest has mastered the teachings of WordPress, specifically with Elementor for his students over the last few years but that usability struggle I mentioned earlier? Yeah…that's caused him to pivot his teachings to a hosted platform you may have heard of before on the show before — Webflow. Welcome today's guest Dave Foye, as he unpacks the challenges of not only learning a new CMS, but the challenges of designing a curriculum for new students seeking to become proficient in it. Episode transcript [00:00:00] Dave: switching tools is, is not for the faint-hearted, it's quite an expensive process, isn't it? In terms of well sunk cost in terms of what you've already. [00:00:08] Put into the amount of time and energy that you've put into learning tools that you've previously used. I also had have still, a multiple six figure a year business teaching WordPress teaching, very specific tools, WordPress and elements are, that combination elements or page builder. [00:00:25] Matt: This episode of the Matt report is brought to you by foo plug-ins or specifically foo plugins, foo gallery. You can find it@foo.gallery. There's a new pro commerce plan, and it gives you two way integration into WooCommerce. So if you want to sell photos, you can sell photos with foo.gallery and woo commerce. [00:00:47] It makes your job. Super easy, especially if you're a photographer. I just had family photos taken the other day and I looked at the big conglomerate website that my photographer sent me. He said, man, it would look so much better if you. Right through WooCommerce, especially if you use something like foo gallery, check out food, art gallery, and learn more about their pro commerce plan. [00:01:09] Check out their WooCommerce integration. They have a great way to watermark and protect your photo galleries. Check them out and thank them for sponsoring the show. It's food, art gallery go-to food art gallery today. Start selling images with foo gallery and. [00:01:27] As designers or developers, even product makers when WordPress is your hammer, everything looks like a nail. WordPress is certainly in an inflection point right now. Whereas the software is evolving Reed Gutenberg in full site, editing the community of users grapple with what WordPress really is. I feel like that's a statement which has lingered in the air for a few years. [00:01:50] When you unlock its power custom post types and fields with a dash of rest API magic, the CMS can become a neural network for your data yet with an interface that I struggle to drag and drop a single block into a third column of my page layout today's guest has mastered the teachings of WordPress specifically with Elementor for his students over the last few years. [00:02:12] But the usability struggle that I just met. Yeah, that's caused him to pivot his teachings to a hosted platform. You may have heard of before on the show web. Welcome today's guest Dave Foye, as he unpacks the challenges of not only learning a new CMS, but the challenges of devising a curriculum for new students seeking to become proficient in it. [00:02:34] You're listening to the Mer report, a podcast for the resilient digital business builder. If you'd like to support the show, please visit buy me a coffee.com/matt report. And buy me a digital coffee or joined the membership to jump into our private discord server with others. Chatting it up about the. [00:02:48] And greatest in our crazy WordPress world, that's buy me a coffee.com/maryport. And thanks to Fu plug-ins for supporting today's show. Check out food gallery food art gallery for more. Okay. [00:03:00] Here's my interview with Dave.  [00:03:01] Dave: I had a lot of resistance, a lot of inner resistance to partly because, switching tools is, is not for the faint-hearted, it's quite an expensive process, isn't it? In terms of well sunk cost in terms of what you've already. [00:03:15] Put into the amount of time and energy that you've put into learning tools that you've previously used. But I mean, I also had have still, but, I had at the time, like a multiple six figure a year business teaching WordPress teaching, very specific tools, WordPress and elements are, that combination elements or page builder. [00:03:35] And so it, it really was kind of. It, it, it was, it was a real kind of crunch time for me for thinking that I have got to the point where I cannot use these tools anymore. I'm finding that I actually I'm finding that. I'll talk about the details in a moment, but I can't in all conscience recommend this particular combination of tools that I am well-known for and, very well paid for I can't carry on. [00:04:05] So, believe me, it was quite a, quite a risk. I think I remember one of my students say, and I've mentioned it's something in, in the, in the little private Facebook group that I've got for one of my courses. And he just said career suicide. Nice. So, [00:04:23] Matt: for thanks for the vote of confidence. [00:04:25] Dave: Awesome. I mean, it, it probably had a point, you probably had a point  [00:04:29] Matt: What was that? Oh, just real quick. What was that concern for you to say? You know what, I don't feel like I can recommend these tools anymore. Was it more a, an ELA mentor thing? Was it more a WordPress thing? I mean, we're in this chaotic times where it's like, Gutenberg is still trying to get better full site editing's coming in. [00:04:48] You layer on the complexity of a piece of software that wants you to build a website a certain way? Are we just hitting a perfect storm here? Or was there something specific? [00:04:57] Dave: Yeah, possibly. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I had got to the point where I started, well, I've, I've been using WordPress since 2007, something like that, so for my own personal projects and my own client projects, I'd use WordPress for, for a good long time. It was when I actually decided to teach online. I long story, I think we've covered this plenty of times before, but for 10 years I was actually a school teacher. [00:05:23] I'm a, I am a qualified teacher, so I was a qualified teacher, teaching young children in the, in the UK. Like in the nineties and early two thousands. And I then got into web design and build up a great business, but it just decided that I just miss teaching so much. So for me, around 2016 ish, I decided I actually want to get back into teaching, but I want to teach the thing that I've been, I've been working with the web design tools that I'll be working with for, for, for many years, what, what a perfect combination. [00:05:54] So, I did a lot of research, long story, but I'd discovered elements or which was [00:06:00] just in its earliest stages at the time. And thought this combination of tools is brilliant for, for my target market. My target market is always non coders. People who don't want to code and probably feel a bit nervous about the prospect of. [00:06:14] Th they, they want to build websites, but web design technology, web design tools, web development, isn't something that is natural to them. It's not something that they are completely off-air with. And. So I always see my job as taking people who look at all this stuff and think, oh, wow, this is so complicated. [00:06:35] And possibly quite scary. It's my job to say, it's all fine. Just do this, this and this. And it all works out. So in a sense, I'd particularly chosen WordPress and elements or that particular combination, because it just seemed right for my target. Now over the gears, elements or has added on features and features and features WordPress itself, as you say, is changing dramatically. [00:07:02] I think ultimately that will be for the good of WordPress. Definitely. I know a lot of people complain about Gothenburg, but I think it is getting there, but it got to the point where I started to think would I in, in, in all kind of conscience, I suppose, would I, conscious now. Recommend to somebody who once frost-free hassle-free stress-free web design experience, where basically stuff just works. [00:07:30] All of the scary kind of hustle behind the scenes all the kind of configuration, all the. The, the stuff that people complain about WordPress, which is actually a strength at the same time, which is it's plugin plugin system, plugin architecture, but I'd got to the point where, for my own use of WordPress, but also just being sensitive to the needs of my students and the needs of the people who I work with day in, day out to help with this stuff. [00:08:01] I just saw massive frustration. Massive massive frustration with constant plugin updates, constant issues with plugins. It's not new in WordPress at all, obviously, but you know, updating plugins to find that something's broken, there's a conflict with something else, finding websites that now this is, I think, quite a bit of elemental issue cause they do, they have had a history of releasing some quite buggy releases in in more recently. [00:08:30] But you know, finding that a website that worked perfectly well, last time they logged in now, suddenly it doesn't work in, in some way there's some functionality broken or there's a, there's the layout that's suddenly off. Issues with hosting and all the RS, all manner of different things. It's kind of like that little drip, drip trip, the, the Chinese water torture, I think is called, the, the drip, drip, drip, drip of, of, of, of constant issues where I just thought there's, there's gotta be a better [00:09:00] way. [00:09:00] I know that, for instance, like I use Thinkific for my online course. And it's just all done for me. I can get on with actually creating courses, uploading the courses and teaching, there are, there are, I don't know, email marketing platforms where that the heavy lifting and the stuff that I don't need to know is done in the background so I can get on with my job. [00:09:22] And I started to think that there must be something better than this constant stress and worry and, and hustle. And maintenance and all of these other things, which is what led me to start looking at other possible or the solutions.  [00:09:39] Matt: I've seen the love, hate relationship with Gutenberg, how fast this piece of software has been iterated on. And just all the changes you couple that with ELA mentor, which is also on a rocket ship ride, they're growing, they're adding new features. They've hit a bout of turbulence, I guess is probably the nicest thing that I could say. [00:10:01] I know I've seen you and Paul on Twitter really hammering it home with element or for good reason. And they have to be conscious, I think, of element or they have the conscious of just not throwing the kitchen sink at everything for the sake of the kitchen sink.  [00:10:17] I feel like folks who are looking for a web flow solution understand that they should invest some money in a platform. That's just going to do it without the FOS updates, hosting issues. Incompatibilities with other plugins, like I will pay the, have that done on Webflow versus the WordPress side of it where it's like, man, there's so many variables that, that can be thrown at this. [00:10:46] Where are you getting that feedback from your audience?  [00:10:48] Dave: Yeah, it was it was, as I said, at the beginning, it was a very, very reluctant look looking for something else for very, very lots of, lots of reasons. I didn't want to be looking anywhere else. Yeah. Partly it was, it was my. And it was partly because of elements or boogie releases. So I got on with, for instance, I needed to build a new website for myself late last year, and they installed a new instance of WordPress and elements. [00:11:14] I was like, global colors just didn't work at all, just broken. And so, so w there were several issues like that just personally for myself, as it was like, oh, what, what is it now? There was not, and it's not just, it's not just elements or, I think. Lots and lots of other, other plugins as well, but let's, I'm probably focusing on elements are maybe a bit too much, but, but yeah, it certainly wasn't a good feeling from my audience and students by, by any means. [00:11:43] I mean, my, my group, I sort of private group was just every day there was just something of like, why isn't this working? Why is this thing broken now? Or it wasn't just necessarily as WordPress. It was like hosting as well, or. I think because. Because the, [00:12:00] because of the plugin architecture and there are plugins coming down the pipe every single day as you. [00:12:04] And I know constantly with, with new features and, potentially solving problems with SEO and page speed and everything else. So th th there were those issues with stuff just being broken and being hard. And, people struggling just to keep up with a frantic pace of change. I think that that was partly the thing, but I think also it was just, I think, yeah, just, just, I, I suppose people just I'm just trying to think of the best way to put it really. [00:12:33] Yeah, just, just gen general kind of anxiety about, about stuff being broken and stuff. Just not being easy, I think is the easiest way to put it. Yeah. [00:12:43] Matt: I want to ask you this question. This is going a little bit deeper in sort of like the creator in the, in the creator mindset, the, the business of being a creator and monetizing on, let's say YouTube and affiliate sales. It probably wasn't an easy decision to make either because one would imagine knowing what I did with affiliate sales, for elements. [00:13:06] Which was a flea on an elephant's ass, probably compared to what you and maybe others have done. It was probably a tough business decision to write, to be like, look, I'm making money. And I think you and Paul and, and, and the other folks that I communicate with on, on YouTube, you do affiliates. Right. I think of immediately when peoples think affiliates are like, oh, what are you trying to sell me? [00:13:29] What kind of cloaking device are you using on these, on these links? Like at one point in your, in your career, you're like, Elementor is a fantastic tool at this time. And they have an affiliate program. Why not recommend this and make money? It's a legit way when you're doing it a legit way. I don't have any other better way of saying that. [00:13:49] So I'd probably, at some point you were like, oh man, like I will be turning off this. Potentially of money. What was that like? And did you have, do you have any thoughts or feelings around affiliate sales and how this helps make the decision  [00:14:01] Dave: Yeah, well, I mean, affiliates, the affiliate business model was never ever my intention when I first started my thing was I'm going to sell courses and affiliate sales were have always just been a bit of a nice to have. When I first started my YouTube channel started making videos about this fairly brand new tool called elements or at the time I happened. [00:14:22] I mentioned my affiliate link. I think it just dropped it in the description. Sometimes I would, occasionally when elements I had an offer, I would let my email list know which was regrowing. My, my business model was growing my email list to sell courses in a nutshell. That's it. And it still is. Grow the email list to sell courses. [00:14:41] But thank goodness that I was an affiliate for elements or in those early days, because in the first kind of nine months of me getting to the point where I even had the confidence to make a course and to feel like I could sell it at all, we're going back to 2017 now, which seems so long [00:15:00] ago, it was only a few years, but yeah, the, the, the, the affiliate income from I was an affiliate for very, very few. [00:15:07] Elements or generate press. I don't know, maybe a hosting platform as well. Well, the income from that was better than I'd been making, working full-time as a web designer. And it absolutely saved my ass because if I hadn't have had that income I think the whole online course thing probably would have failed. [00:15:28] Now. I say that because I. Way too long to actually make a product and offer it to my, offer it to my audiences, to my MLS. So these days when I mentor and help people create products and make online courses, one of my first things is to say, is this a build. As a small and email list, as you can get away with find a hundred people and sell something, make something to sell. [00:15:55] It can be very low value, not low value, low, low price. It doesn't matter, but start making something and start selling something straight away, because it's only then that you can start getting true feedback about what people actually want, what they're prepared to pay for and where you? [00:16:11] should put your energies. [00:16:13] But yeah, the affiliate thing was, was massive, but. W my, the income of saying about, I'm not, I'm not saying it's a brag, but it's a multiple six figures a year. Business is mostly from courses. It's mostly from selling courses. I'd say 90% is from selling courses about WordPress and elemental, specifically about using those tools. [00:16:36] And yeah, to say that it's career suicide, there's the phrase, career suicide. [00:16:42] Matt: And you were, you were lucky enough to get to a point. Did you turn ads on, on your YouTube  [00:16:48] Dave: No, no, no, no. Never never had no, no, no,  [00:16:51] Matt: Just because you didn't want the experience or the user to have that experience of ads, or you were never looking at it  [00:16:59] Dave: I think, I think what I wanted to do was just to make sure. The foolishly probably, this is, this is not a savvy business head talking, but I think I just want to, just to make sure that when people watch my videos, that we're just not being interrupted by ads and, they could just actually enjoy the experience of, of watching the videos. [00:17:18] And I suspected that probably the income from that wasn't particularly going to be too great anyway. So I just always kept monitorization off for that reason. Really.  [00:17:27] Matt: My YouTube story is like, how do I get into this game? How do I create this content? And I quickly, but I don't say quickly, it took me six months to burn out, doing like three videos a week or maybe three or four videos a week. I had this ambitious goal of doing it like every day. And I just flatlined burned out. [00:17:46] I didn't literally didn't touch it for a year. And then all of a sudden. Ad sent, sent me the first check for a hundred bucks. Right. Then I logged in and it was, I had tripled my audience without uploading a video in a year, just because of SEO. [00:17:58] The light bulb went off. [00:18:00] Like you fool, you shouldn't have given up, you should have done it less. So you didn't burn yourself out, but you shouldn't have given up. And again, like life gets in the way YouTube stuff is so far away. My daily routine that I haven't uploaded episodes. And, but I still am making three or 400 bucks a month in ads. [00:18:19] And I have a lot of kids, so diapers are expensive. So I leave the ads on, but I, I, I can certainly, I can certainly see in your world where these bigger products, bigger prices, the brand, the value, there is a target for you to focus on. [00:18:34] Dave: Yeah. [00:18:35] definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I was the one that I think I wanted that sense of kind of trustworthiness. Yeah. just that experience. Really. I was not to say that people with ads, I watch, oh, I've got YouTube premium now, so I don't see any ads, but seeing ads on people's videos, I actually don't, I don't personally tie that into a decision that's made by the creator of the video at all. [00:18:55] It doesn't, I understand how it works as well, but I don't ever think, oh, they've, they've got ads turned on. They obviously don't care about my experiences as a viewer. It doesn't enter my head, so  [00:19:06] Matt: side note, I also signed up recently for premium, like late was finally one of those things where, you know, before you sign up for premium, every time you logged into YouTube, they'd be like, do premium, do premium, do premium. And I'm always like clothes, clothes, clothes. And I tell you, Dave, I am like, screw it. [00:19:23] I'm going to do it. Right. Like finally, you got me YouTube, literally a thousand pop-ups later is probably what my conversion metrics were. You finally got me and I signed up and I watched my first video with no ads. And I was like, wow,  [00:19:41] Dave: Yeah, well, consider the side.  [00:19:43] Matt: brain, because my brain was trained so much now with like their three pre-roll ads and then the, the pop-up in the middle of the banner and then like the mid roll. [00:19:53] And when I'm doing work for Casto, sometimes I'm in the Castle's account and I'm uploading my videos for Casos and I'll be watching something. And I'll be like, what is this ad? Like, my brain is like, what is this? Like, it was happening. And like, oh yeah, I'm not in my premium account. [00:20:08] Dave: It is awesome. I think it's. worth every single  [00:20:11] Matt: It is, it's. it is.  [00:20:13] Dave: Yeah, definitely.  [00:20:15] Matt: when I go on vacation with my children and recently w we're going to, we were in Florida and they're watching TV, cable, TV, and there's commercials. And my kids are literally asking me what dad, what is this? Why, why isn't the show playing? Because they're so used to Netflix and Disney plus. [00:20:33] Dave: Yeah.  [00:20:34] Matt: And they see a commercial and they are freaking out. They're like, what, what is a show? Where's the show? And I'm like, it's just a, it's a thing called commercial kids that you didn't grow up with. Welcome to my world.  [00:20:46] Dave: Oh, wow.  [00:20:46] Matt: All right. As we get into the back half of this conversation, web flow, did you, you said like, I want to find a platform that is easy, all encompassing. [00:20:59] Was Webflow [00:21:00] is in the back of your mind or did you start doing some homework and then you settled on Webflow? [00:21:04] Dave: Yeah, Well, I had, I'd actually been recommended Webflow several times over at least two years, probably more. And every time somebody said to me, you've got dude, you've got to check web flow out. And these were people that are trusted and respected friends of mine, colleagues, people all over the place. [00:21:19] And people who had never looked back, it would just adopted it for their agency as their go-to tool. And they moved from WordPress. And every single time somebody recommended it. I said, well, yeah, I've heard of that. I'll check it out. And then I would immediately toss the idea in the bin and think there is literally no way I am looking at any of the tools because I've got a lot of, as we've said, a lot invested in, in WordPress and everything. [00:21:44] So yeah. Yeah. So, so actually choosing Webflow. I, I had a little look around to see anything else. I obviously don't, didn't bother looking at the Squarespaces and the Wix and things like that. But yeah, the web flow was pretty much, pretty much the only one that I considered now, I actually tried it and gave up three times, like completely just thought, right, come on, come on. [00:22:07] You can do this. I mean, how hard can it be and gave up three times because it's not actually. It's not actually, it's not a beginner's platform. It's not designed for people who that, that Squarespace is designed for. You don't get a lot of pre pre-made designs and in fact, it's harder to use done. [00:22:26] I would say a WordPress page builder, probably not oxygen because oxygen is based very, very, very much on web flow as I understand. But yeah, it was, it was hard. And what I also found as well is. I well, partly so, so what would happen is I'd give it a try and think, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. I just, haven't got time. [00:22:46] I'll persevere with what I'm using. And it was the third time there was like the straw that broke the camel's back. I've got to figure this out. And in some ways it really appealed to me because when you start, well, we'll go into the details too much. But when you style anything in Webflow, you literally click on it. [00:23:04] A podcast doesn't make this a very good visual medium for me to explain this. But when you click on anything in web flow and you want to style it, it could be literally any element whatsoever. You give it a name, like a class, a, you give that class, whatever styles you like. You've got all the styles at your disposal, really easy, nice UI. [00:23:23] And then you just use that class on anything else that you want to give that, that that's those, those same styles. The sense of having literally on, con on limited global styling, not having to go to some separate styling panel somewhere to constantly kind of keep going back and sort of adjusting things. [00:23:46] And also not being out there, I suppose. Th the page, whatever the page builder developers decided the global styles are that you're going to have is what you're stuck with. You're limited by that. [00:24:00] Usually we web flow. You can just do what you like now as a, as an, actually like a dinosaur old school, HTML and CSS hand coder back in the day, this really appealed. [00:24:12] Because I used to write CSS and I'd have one single CSS file, which I could just create as many styles as I liked, and I could control them all from one place. So it was that particularly about web flow. That just super appealed to me, the lack of the lack of limits, really. I'm not being, I'm not being, I'm not being hampered by. [00:24:32] I mean, it's great. For instance, elements are just as an example, the whole load of widgets and know there are probably a million different third-party add-ons as well. It will all bring a load more widgets as well. And it is amazing. You can drag a widget on the screen, just onto the canvas. It just produces, your tabs or your, your posts Lao or whatever it is. [00:24:53] But you still fairly limited by the styling options that that developer has decided to give you where it was with Webflow is just completely open-ended. The problem, the problem it's like everything in life, concentrate offs. The problem with that beautiful open-endedness is that you can make a real mess. [00:25:14] If you're not careful, if you've not kind of got a system and a workflow and a, an a way that you decide that you're going to name classes and use them and reuse them, it can be a bit of a mess. And that's the issue that I hit immediately. The wet floor. The Webflow university, which is web flows own a free training is absolutely brilliant. [00:25:36] I mean, as, than, as an educator myself, as a teacher myself, I mean, I, I just think those videos are astounding. They're incredible. And I think it speaks volumes about a company like that who have invested so much time and energy into training their users. So that stuff was helpful. and it kinda got me got, definitely got me so far, but I was, I think because my teaching in WordPress and other mentor was all about, you've got all these tools, you've got all the colors in there, all the crayons in the box, but you need a system, you need a workflow, you need it. [00:26:16] You need, you need to set yourself limits. So. Yeah, you can produce sites really quickly, really productively, profitably and not have to think too much, you've got a system and you just do it and you just build them. So I, that was, that was the, that was the sticking point with Webflow. And it's what I ended up actually building a framework myself though. [00:26:36] There isn't anything really, there are web flow frameworks out there, but they all had issues for me. So I ended up building my own, [00:26:43] Matt: I've tried Webflow before. And me it's as much more of a like shiny object syndrome and a little bit of like this whole, like no code. Movement where it's like, I don't know. Sometimes I've thought of sat back and be like, man, if I could just have like a database that I use, like connected with Zapier [00:27:00] and I could like automate these things, I see all these other people do it, like in two seconds on the back of a napkin. [00:27:04] And I'm like, I want to do that too. And then like, I jumped into like web flow and I'm like, oh God, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I'm just going to sound, I'm going away from this, this leads. And what I'm getting out of here is like, You tried it three times, whatever failed. And you're like, ah, somebody could just teach it my way you built it. [00:27:22] Right. You built the course to like, get people over that hump quite literally coming from WordPress to web flow. The name of your course is there a particular. Cut like a WordPress user or WordPress stack that somebody might be using. Who's like the perfect fit to, for your course number one, but for web flow, like certainly somebody who's us, I'm just a simple lowly WordPress blogger is probably not gonna need your course is probably not going to need web flow, but is there a certain, a certain avatar that is a perfect fit for your course, but for also to, to, to reap the benefits of web. [00:27:59] Dave: . I would say that people who I mean, if somebody is a WordPress developer, right? So we'll, we'll, we'll discount those people immediately, people are building their own themes and things like that then. Absolutely. Definitely not. I'm sure that WordPress gives you all of the, all of the control and the power and everything that you need. [00:28:14] So I would say more people who are trained to be. I'm trying to build full, fully functional websites using WordPress under page builder. I would say the people who definitely need a page builder of some kind. Now, when I'm in Gothenburg , is a page builder and it's developing fast as well. So I would say people who are using those tools particularly you, I, as I said, in a sense, web flow is a bit more complicated. [00:28:42] So it's, it's not just the. It is in some ways, but there isn't, the, the pre-built here is everything done for you. Aspect of quite a lot of the stuff that comes with a page builder. So there are certain things that you need to understand in the background. You need to understand what's going on. You need to understand a little bit about. [00:29:03] HTML and CSS as well. So just an, an understanding of just like how HTML interacts with CSS, just on a very basic level to understand things like inheritance, so when you set a style on the body, for instance, that is going to trickle down to everything underneath it, all the content and everything underneath it all, unless you override it. [00:29:26] So there are, there are concepts like that, that in a page builder, those people. I don't really even need to ever think about particularly, you can just eat just budge, something together quite, quite easily. I would say though that I, I do know of quite a lot of, of from end developers I suppose, backend developers as well, who really enjoy using web flow because it allows them to effectively write HTML and CSS without having to actually write HTML and CSS. [00:29:54] Cause like a graphical user interface for, for. Well, for me, [00:30:00] I am more than happy to recommend web flow to my audience, which are, as I said, non coders, they need a page builder and they're a little bit nervous about, all the multitude of different tools and, and, and things that they need to know. [00:30:15] Matt: I'm curious. I mean, I know the, as of, as of this time, which is September 17th at 11:30 AM Eastern standard time in new England, which is where we, we won't get into the  [00:30:28] Dave: I mean I'm in the old one.  [00:30:30] Matt: in the old one. You're in the original one. The, I know the course is not for sale yet. I'm curious. And I've seen it. [00:30:37] I think I've gone through the first two modules and, and, and, for the listener out there, like when Dave says he takes time, like it took me so long to do this. Yeah. But the quality is just mind blowing and I can't even imagine Dave, how much time you've spent on it. I don't, I don't know if you have a number of hours counted or if you even want to admit how long you've been into it. [00:30:57] I know it's not for sale yet. Do you, as of this recording, but maybe when we launch this recording do you anticipate. The some turbulence there. Right? So people in WordPress they're very much used to free or low cost web flows, paid the pain for your course. What are your thoughts? What's the gut tell you on promoting this as a business owner. [00:31:17] Dave: The first thing I would say is that when I started thinking about building a business, making online courses at all, my first thought was who on earth is going to pay any money for the learning, any of this stuff? And there's, there's this thing called YouTube. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's just full of all the free advice and tutorials and walkthroughs. [00:31:37] You could, you could ever hope for I purposefully, actually, I got over that mindset issue quite quickly, it's nonsense, but people are prepared to pay and they're prepared to pay good money as well for an investment in their career and their time and their stress levels and everything else. So, in terms of me worrying too much about people paying for a course or even paying for a platform, doesn't really worry me too much because the people who buy. [00:32:04] My course is our people. They are. I always think that out of my email list, probably, I don't know what the numbers are. 5% will buy something that I'm I make and those people are prepared to pay. I don't know how much my courses have been. I think, I think, I think the highest price, no stress WordPress was, which is discontinued now. [00:32:26] Not in know fairly indefinitely. I think there was about 800. For that. So, between sort of 4, 5, 6, 7, 800 bucks for a course, those people are absolutely. I mean, the web flow, cause it isn't that at all. I think it starting at two nines. So that's, that's, that's a bit lower just to, just to get started with at the moment. [00:32:48] But I'm, I'm, I'm fairly convinced and I am delighted to appeal to people who are willing to invest in their education and their professional development and the tools [00:33:00] that they use as well for an easier life. And so actually ultimately get a return on that investment, in terms of faster builds and not having to worry. [00:33:10] About updating plugins and maintenance and stuff, breaking and having to fix things and all that sort of thing. So, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't really worry me. It's all. [00:33:19] Matt: Yeah. I mean, when you have somebody who's already, I did an article. I, again, if I was a professional podcaster, I would have this up, I think element or web flow. Let's just see if my site ranks first. It  [00:33:31] Dave: Oh, oh, harsh,  [00:33:33] Matt: Element or web. Oh yeah, it does. I'm on the first page. Okay. A little, a little bit down on the first page, if you Google element or web flow, but I say in defense of element or versus web flow, and this site publish this February of this year, God man, you just, I didn't even understand time anymore. [00:33:48] February 11th, 2021. When folks were talking about the price hike of element, or now I'm not here to argue whether or not the. The approach of what Elementor was doing with bugs and features and whatnot is fair or not. I didn't have anything against the price hike, if you will, for ELA mentor, because man, I feel like so many people are making money with elementary or. [00:34:12] That even if you bought their $1,000 a year for a thousand websites, I mean, if you're somebody who's producing a thousand websites, you're at least charging $2 for one of those websites, right. You're selling these websites for at least $2, you've doubled your money. Right? So I was never against the raising of the price because hopefully that raises value of all things WordPress. [00:34:34] But my point here is people are already spending money in the web flow world. Whereas. Hats off and kudos to you. You're selling courses in the WordPress world where a majority of people are used to free. So you already were fighting a battle that I've not been able to solve  [00:34:51] Dave: Yeah, there is. I mean, there is a sense isn't there because WordPress is open source. Everything should be. And you, you hear that all the time. And I think that's just going to be a constant issue. Really. One thing that when I actually looked at certainly for, certainly for the people that I'm M in my course out, and the people that I kind of want to help when you actually look at the price of Webflow, cause people say, God, man Webflow is so expensive. [00:35:13] I think, well, if you look at it, you pay an account. I won't go into all the massive details, but you pay an account plan fee, which is basically a single monthly families, about 24 books. Which allows you to build, buy all, to build onstage on a, on a web flow.io domain all your web flow sites you've got in development, and you can share those with clients and you could even just make those live on the S on the staging sub domain, if you didn't want to point a live domain of them. [00:35:41] So that's 24 bucks a month. It's basically similar to, if you've got like an Adobe creative cloud subscription or you've got an elemental license on it and a theme license, and it just allows you to use the platform. So that to me is like, well, that seems perfectly fair. And then you [00:36:00] pay a per site site plan fee as well, which I think is about 20 bucks a month. [00:36:05] Now people who are hosting. Crumbing websites onto, I could attend books a month hosting plan, and they're quite happy with all the configuration and the setup and everything that, that entails and possible performance issues and whatever, then absolutely. I mean, knock yourself out. [00:36:23] Brilliant. But if you compare to, I mean, let's just take a WordPress managed host, like Insta, for instance, I think Ken stir last time I looked, it was 20 bucks a month. Now w so, so for each live site, you've got a domain pointed to, to web flow. You're paying 20 bucks a month for that. I mean again, if you're not making at least $20 a month back from the website, then there's something wrong. [00:36:48] You, you, you really should be a book. Also with that. You also get like the CDN, you get all of the page speed stuff set up for you, and it's all done for the, the sites are blazing fast, absolutely brilliant. All green, like top of the range, kind of page speed scores, the host inside and out for you. [00:37:07] Security. So sorted out for you. All of the functionality seems to me in many ways, if you were a person who would appreciate managed hosting, and it seems to me that that is actually a pretty good deal overall,  [00:37:21] Matt: I tend to agree things get a little crazy when you start getting into the e-commerce world with web flow the way that they do pricing, I broke it all down in this, in this post. Although this post is now a few months old and I'll link that up. I'll try to link that up in the, in the show notes. [00:37:34] But  [00:37:34] Dave: was a simplified.  [00:37:36] Matt: Yeah. At the end of the day, like the trade-off again is support all in one platform. If you really wrestled with, I want to own everything for the sake of owning it, and it's a whole mind, it's hard to make that mental leap and appreciation leap. I don't have a better word right now, but like, it's hard to make that leap from WordPress if you're really stuck in that, in that  [00:38:01] Dave: Yeah, absolutely. And I would, I would say to anybody that it's not like, I certainly don't set say to everybody, you must use Webflow is far better than WordPress. That's actually not what I'm saying. He probably comes across that way. There are trade offs with everything, and if ownership. Or certainly a feeling of ownership anyway and having control over every single aspect of that, of your website and website workflow and everything else, if that is important to you, for whatever reason, that's great, but there's a trade off in the maintenance and the plugin updates and stuff, breaking and everything else. [00:38:37] That's the that's that's, that's the deal, you w you can't have your cake and eat it kind of thing. I think he's just true of everything in life. Same with Webflow, yep. You don't have all of those hustles, but Yeah. [00:38:48] you've got a platform where you are in a way renting the site from, from Webflow. [00:38:53] What if Webflow disappears overnight? There were all these concerns. I mean, I've got, I've got kind of, answers for all these [00:39:00] objections, but There are also just very, very quickly. One of the biggest objections is she's quite funny to me is about recurring income from care plans. [00:39:10] So people will say I've got a pretty good business making recurring easy money every month by charging clients to keep the website updated the WordPress website update. And make sure it doesn't, it doesn't break for them. What am I going to do about that with Webflow? Because he just works, what's the, what, what, what, where am I going to make this money? [00:39:29] My short answer is always, well, first, if all things were equal and you could build a website in WordPress or web flow, and let's also say that either of them would be appropriate for the project, Really recommend WordPress because it's prone to problems, it's prone to problems and it, and it breaks. [00:39:51] And you can charge the client forever in order to, just to be basically lightly. No, let them have a working website. It sounds a bit harshly. It sounds like I'm kind of over again things, but that's kind of how it is really. Now my view is the client, your clients don't care. About how you did something, all that, how long it took you, all the steps you took, they are, they only care about the result on all the clients are paying you for, for, for a care plan, just in terms of the maintenance side of it, not talking about anything else. [00:40:24] Well, the maintenance side of it, they are paying you so that their website is rock solid. Isn't down works perfectly, and it just doesn't have any issues. Well, why can't you charge the client for the. You've found a better or the best platform that you think for their particular needs for their project that has all that in place. [00:40:46] You've spent all this time and money learning the platform. Why not charge clients for that? I, I don't think clients particularly cared that you've got to update plugins. You've got to spend X amount of time doing that. I think it's a bit of a non argument, rarely.  [00:40:59] Matt: I think at some of the tiers on web load, there's a little phone number you can call, right. So good luck. Yeah. Calling yeah. Calling you got a dozen plugins doing. Things, you're not going to call PIP in and, and, WooCommerce, you're not going to call these people and get them on a conference call to figure out what your site is at the end of the day. [00:41:18] You look, you're paying for that support. And web flows. As far as I know, in the news web flows slated to be a IPO and, and be a publicly traded company here in the states. And they're a private company now, but they've raised over 140 million. So they're probably valued at billions. I don't even know what money is these  [00:41:33] Dave: Probably, yeah, exactly. yeah, MailChimp is worth what was it? 12 billion, or something like  [00:41:37] Matt: half the half the banana industry or the entire globe?  [00:41:41] Dave: So, so w what is money.  [00:41:43] Matt: yeah. What is money via Canva? Just raised Canva just got another 400 million valued@fortybillioncanva.com. It's just, I don't know, Dave, what are we doing wrong here? [00:41:57] Dave: Well, I'm I think I'm going to hang these [00:42:00] headphones up.  [00:42:01] Matt: I'm going to make a canvas course. What am I doing with Webflow? Here's how to make a template in Canva. Oh man. It's called WordPress to web flow. His name is Dave Dave for you can search for Dave for you can go to date for.com. You can search him on YouTube. You can go to WP two w f.com or pressed a web flow. [00:42:21] Dave, anything else that any other place that people should find you? Yeah. [00:42:24] Dave: The other thoughts that you've covered up. So everything there, my friend. Yeah. [00:42:27] Brilliant. Thank you very much.  [00:42:29] Matt: Fantastic stuff. It's my report. My report.com my report.com/subscribe. Hey, if you want to support the content happening here at the Matt report, go to buy me a coffee.com/matt report. You can join the membership there and be part of the, the news right now. It's about the, the WP minute. If you want to be involved in the news, you wanna have your hand in shape. [00:42:49] Our weekly WordPress news, the five minute dose of WordPress news every week@wpminute.com. Go to buy me a coffee.com/matt report. Buy me a coffee.com/matt report. Support the show. Thanks for listening. 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Allen: All right, everybody. Welcome to another edition of the Option Genius Podcast today I have with me, Matthew D'Ambrosi .He's one of our passive traders. And he's gonna be telling us how he got started and how he's doing pretty well right now. How are you doing, Matthew? Matt: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on. Allen: Cool. Cool. So how'd you get started with Option Genius?  Matt: Well, I have to actually go back, it's been quite a journey, I have to say, you know, it's more like a 15 year journey for me. Allen: Wow. You know, I was given a book by my sister at age 30. And I was a young guy, and I was just more not interested in reading books just kind of floating through life, didn't really have much direction. And the book was called "Automatic Millionaire" by David Bach. Allen: Okay. Matt: In that book, I wasn't really interested in reading it, but she handed it to me. So I said, at least go through it. And I started thumbing through and I came upon a compound interest chart. And it showed, you know, you're 19 years old, and you put $2,000 into an IRA, or Roth IRA, and you did that, and you continue to do that, it would be well over a million by the time you're 65. So I was caught immediately by that. And that's kind of where my journey began. So I took that information, and started reading more books. And I came across Dave Ramsey. He's kind of like a financial soldier, if you will, you know, to get out of debt. Yeah, kind of get your stuff together. And I started, I always thought about making money and you know, retiring early, it was always a thought of mine, it was a gold mine, it was definitely what I wanted to do. And I always felt like 65 is when I would do it just like everybody else. And I continue to read more, I read numerous articles and books. And about two years ago, I went to a workshop, and I was learning how to invest. And they introduced me to options and selling options. And I was told that everyone else was told, you know, it was risky. Don't touch it. There's a whole another world to me. Allen: Have you done any stocks or options before that? Matt: No, absolutely not. Allen: No stocks either? Matt: Not really, you know, I was more into mutual funds, I had gave my money to an advisor, I just believe that people had your best interest. And they're great advisors out there. I'm not saying they're not. But it really started me to take a hard look about how money is handled. And you're much better off if you take the plunge and believe in yourself and start looking into deeper and see that they can really work out for you if you're willing to take or have the interest really to go and look at that. So I started paper trading. And then I was wondering who else does this so I started searching. And then I came across your name, and I have to hand it to your master marketer. I've never had anyone hit my inbox like you. So I started listening to all your podcast, taking little by little, you know, all the information that you give out there and started little by little paper trading. And then I started making money slowly, you know, doing one contract, then adding two. And then now I'm pretty much on my goal to replace my income. And that's my ultimate goal so... Allen: Awesome. Matt: Just a regular guy, you know, I just kind of happy to be here. I'm really happy to be here today. Because I want to get the message out that you know, you're teaching just normal people like me, who have no experience at this. And it's really a wonderful thing if you're willing to get a hold of your fears and take a stab at it. Allen: Right. So you started about two years ago, you said? Matt: Yeah, about two years ago yeah. Allen: Oh two years ago. Okay. And you're still working? Matt: I am, yep. Allen: Okay, what do you do during the day? Matt: So I'm a forklift driver and it's tough work. It's very laborsome. And trading has allowed me to look at money in a different way. I just don't look at money as scarce as it was. So it's a whole different mindset. Allen: Yeah. So how do you find time during the day to trade? Matt: Generally I don't go until about 2:30 in the afternoon, and I go on to 2:30 at work so I spend the mornings pretty much studying and paper trading and learning and then even after work at 11 o'clock, sometimes I'll be up till 1am or so learning as well and paper trading and trying to think about things and whatnot so.. Allen: So you're all in? Matt: All in, absolutely. They say burn the ships and I burnt them. Allen: So what was your first trade? Matt: First trade I did was credit spread. I did far away from the money for about just one contract and I made like 18 bucks. It wasn't much but you know, you're, you talked about the options continuum. That was in that stage where I was very nervous and you know, you have these feelings and you feel like you're gonna lose all your money. And that's not true, if you study and really take what you have to teach, and I took it very slow and got into it. So after that, after you do, there's something about to do first live trade, it kind of clicks with you like, okay, that wasn't so bad, you know, not the think of the worst that can happen. So, yeah, I did it. And it's been a, you know, I'm gaining confidence each and every week. And, yeah, we just continue to evolve on that continuum. Allen: Cool. So if I can recap. So basically, you want to get into investing because you didn't like where it was going. And you didn't want to wait around till 65 to, you know, have a nest egg and retire and have somebody else in charge of your money. So you started looking at it for yourself, and you've been putting in time you've been studying, researching trading, paper trading? What else is it that you want to achieve, besides just the money aspect? Like what what is it about the trading that is, you know, speaks to you on a deeper level? Matt: Yeah, I think the main part and it's different for everybody, for me, it's actually you know, as you get older, you realize you don't know how much time you have on this earth. And, you know, you start looking at things like, Hey, you know, the time is right now. And if I can find a way to free up some time, I'm going to seize it, because I never want to look back and say, "Hey, you know, I got to 65" I'd be glad if I do. But to spend time with friends and family, I got, you know, parents are almost in their 80s, I would love to just free up just a little bit of time and already am and I'm already you know, I already feel successful. And that, you know, I found something that I can do and free some time up and actually see them. Allen: Okay. So when you say you feel successful, what does that mean in numbers? Matt: Numbers to me, it's like just even $500. And it's different for everybody. There's no doubt. I mean, $500 extra dollars a month is successful to me. It gives you just a little bit of breathing room. I'm a simple person, I don't need a lot. I drive a 2200 accord. I mean, it looks like it's gonna fall off the road. I'm not a man to really, you know, I love great things. I would love to get in a nice, wonderful car, but it's not the main driver for me. The main drivers just to spend quality time family and friends. Absolutely. Allen: Nice. Nice. Okay. So would you mind sharing how large your trading account is now? Matt: Yeah, I started with in the brokerage account, I started about 2 Grand, and I'm already up to about 16 right now. Allen: Wow, in two years? Yeah, that's phenomenal. Matt: Yeah, I mean, I'm also adding to it too, but.. Allen: Okay. Matt: It's amazing to see the compound interest grow. And I haven't been really calculating it like dollar for dollar. But I'm just more really tuned into just being successful and working through the trades. And not really focusing so much on, you know, $1 amount just being, "Hey, let me get this tray. Let me monitor it. Let me look at it. Let me learn from it". If I have any problems, if I look at it as a learning experience, I have to continue to go I want to be in it forever. You know, I want to continue to I want to be that guy standing, you know, 10 years, 15 years from now and still doing this. Allen: Okay, so you don't want to be a forklift driver anymore? Matt: No, I say, you know, I'm sure there are a lot of people who listen to podcast saying I hate my job. I do not I actually enjoy driving a forklift. I just don't want to drive 40 hours a week. Allen: Okay. Okay, so what type of strategies are you using? Matt: So right now I'm doing a lot of bull put spreads, I've ventured into bear call spreads. I'm also doing covered calls. I haven't done any naked puts yet. So I'm really kind of looking at some companies and, uh, you know, I want to know more about the companies and look at stable companies like you teach us and start doing options off of them. So, it's an ongoing process and what amazes me that you don't need to do a lot of different strategies to be successful. Allen: Right, right. Right. Okay. What's your if you had to only pick one, which was your favorite? Matt: At the moment, it'd be a bull put spread, but I have a feeling that's gonna change. Allen: Yeah depending on the market. Matt: Also venturing into into oil, like you're teaching in your program. Allen: Cool. Yeah. Welcome to that program. Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely the next level of stuff. You know, it moves faster, and it's more leverage. So the numbers are bigger. Matt: Yeah. Allen: Cool. So have you tried anything else that didn't work? Matt: You know, I've done about 60 trades so far. I've lost one. And I got out early, it would have worked out. And it was my first time losing money, but I look at as a big lesson. You know, there's a lot of feelings. I listened to one of your podcasts where you talked about how you lost and the feelings that surround that. Right. I think you have to kind of reevaluate and find the lesson in it. And the lesson I found in that trade was that I was trading too heavy. I was a little bit. I was actually doing too many contracts. I was a little bit too uncomfortable. Matt: So that it was is a really good learning experience to say, Hey, you know, I'm not really comfortable risking that much money. Let me just pare it back a little bit. And think about what I want to do here, so.. okay, that, you know, the experience of actually getting out of a trade out of our live trade because you know, your bloods pumping, and you're like, Okay, you know, am I hitting the right buttons? And I get now it's a little different than paper? Of course. Allen: For sure. Yeah. But did you say you did 60 trades and you only lost on one? Matt: Yes so far... Allen: And these are all real money? Matt: Real Money, yes. Allen: Wow. And what's your strategy? How are you doing that? Would you find that trading plan? That's amazing. Matt: You know, it's a lot of listening. I've read so many books, listen to podcasts, listening to education, I kind of go, I'm a very conservative person. So I trade very conservatively. So about 90% out or more, I try to get at least 23 cents, 22 cents, and then just move my contracts up as I feel comfortable taking that risk. Allen: Okay so if I heard you correctly, you are trading at about a 10 delta spread? Matt: Yeah, usually. Allen: And then you're trying to make about 5% on each trade? Matt: Yeah, but between four and 5% Allen: Between four or five? And how long do you stay in the trade? Matt: You know, it's almost embarrassing, but that's the level of how you get better. I really have my you know, you talk about your AHA moments, and one of them was mine. I didn't know you could get out of the trade. So I was always thinking you had to be there until expiration, but that's not obviously not true. So that was a big one. For me, I have to honestly say that, you know, when you're learning this, you just don't think of you don't know everything. Right? And I was like, oh, my goodness, you can actually get out of these trades. So I learned to get out. So you know, that's a benefit in my world, once you know how to get out, it takes a little bit of fear out. Allen: So when do you get in? How many days to expiration to get in? Matt: Generally, I'm between 28 and 35 days or so. Allen: Okay, and what how many trades at one time do you have on? Matt: I really try to do only as many as I can comfortably watch. I try to do maybe one a week. So about four trades at most that are going on? Allen: Okay, so four trades at one time. Okay. And so how much would you say you're making on a monthly basis? dollar terms? Matt: Well across two accounts. So I trade in my brokerage account, I trade under my IRA, I rockler. Right? I'm averaging about 1000 a week now? Allen: 1000 a week. Okay. That's amazing. So within two years, you're up to 4000 a month. And you're saying your account value is roughly around 16? Matt: Roughly 16. And then, you know, in the Roth IRA, it's considerably higher, but that's not money I really want to put a heavy risk of short term trading, but I do trade there. Allen: Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. No, that's, that's crazy. And you're saying that you're almost to the point where it's getting close to where it's gonna replace your income or equal your income from..  Matt: Yeah I mean, I have no qualms about it. I my goal is to get make $5600 a month. And I know my number and but it's all about, you know, I guess one of the big reasons for me coming on is that you just have to trust the process. And you have to actually become in love with the process not be so result driven. I mean, it's important, you know, we all want results. But if you can find a love for the process, I think you're that much better?  Allen: For sure. Definitely. Yeah. Because, you know, like you said, You've been putting in the time you wake up and you work on it. And then after work, you know, tired long day, but you still sometimes you still get it and to look at it being you wouldn't do it if you weren't like happy and excited. It's really something to find something. I feel like this is a point in my life where I really found something I love to do. And I really do. I really love this. And, you know, it's, I just want other people that are just regular people like me, and people come all the time and say, you know, you can do this and do that. But I am I tell you to my core, I'm just a regular person, I drive a forklift. And if anyone can do it, you can do it. And thank God, there are people like you have to teach this stuff. Because I would have killed 20 years ago to have someone guide me through just hitting me across the head of the board and be like, Hey, you know, listen. But that's not how life works. Allen: Right, no, yeah. You know, when you're ready, the teacher appears kind of thing. You know? Matt: It really is true. Allen: Yeah. Yeah. So the biggest thing that surprised you when you were doing this stuff, besides that you could get out before expiration? Matt: Oh, yeah, that was a big one. I think it's coupled with what other people say but also with what I think is that you can trade on something that you don't own. I think that's a big thing for people. Because we're just conditioned to be like, you know, if I can trade something, I have to own it. And that was a big like, wow, for me, for trading. You know, also the covered call as well. Allen: Okay. And so what was your biggest challenge? Matt: The biggest challenge for me was overcoming your fears. I mean, it's, it's definitely a big fear. And I don't take it lightly. Because, you know, we all worry about losing our money, we worked so hard for it. I mean, I work 40 hours a week just to make the bills and do everything that we want to do, we want a better standard of living. And it's very scary  you know, you can think about losing all that money and a flash, and that's really fearful. And I think that's the biggest obstacle, but be to be able to papertrade it and learn from people like yourself that have gone through it. And like, they say, taken the arrows is all much better. I mean, you know, it's like, I talk to people, it's like, you're in a forest, and you don't know which way to go. And it's like, you have someone like yourself or someone else that has gone through this. And we're like, Hey, here's the path. You know, over here is a ditch over here, you know, there's a lion, go down this path, and you start to understand otherwise, you're just flailing around, and you'll be lost in that forest forever. So, you know, it's just one big journey, to be honest with you. Allen: Yep. Yep, yep. Yep. So is that the biggest thing that helped you overcome the fear? Got me a lot of people have that fear. You know, it's like, oh, my God, if I do this, what's going to happen? What if I press the wrong button? What if they take this away? What if you know, something, I do something wrong, my wife's gonna kill me, you know, how did you besides the paper trading was that the biggest thing that helped you overcome the fear? Matt: I think also, the actual structure of a credit spread, you know, knowing that when I have a set amount of money, that it's risk, I can only lose like, $500 in a trade or 480. That really helped me, okay, I was like, Okay, if you're uncomfortable, overall, losing $480 in this trade completely fails. And that's all I'm gonna lose. And I wrapped my head around that, then I can get past that barrier. And I can trade more and learn how to trade. I think initially, you just have in your mind that you're gonna lose all your money, which is not true. If you, of course, you I mean, you have to study and you have to pay attention. None of this is easy or simple. But you got to put in the time, I'm not saying you don't. But if you really want to, and you're, you have conviction, and you have desire, there's no reason why you can't do this stuff. Allen: So what do you think the future holds for you now? Matt: Well, I hope all good things. I mean, I go on with the, I hope I go in with the attitude. I'm really happy and excited to be part of the the oil, that's a whole another, the oil blank check trading program. It's a whole another world for me. And, you know, I kind of feel like, it's traded like options, but it's very different. And then I have to get in there. And it's like, you know, I'm back at the beginning a little bit. So I got to get him up to speed and learn that it's a whole another world. So you go through those feelings again, in a different way. So I'm kind of in the beginning, but I'm very hopeful for the future. And I just want to continue to be consistent and profitable. And that's all you can ask for. Allen: Yep. Yep. So would you recommend Option Genius to other people? Matt: Absolutely. I mean, I sing your praises almost all the time. I one of the big reasons is that how accessible you are. And you know, whenever I had a question, you guys are on top of it. I mean, I couldn't ask for any quicker response. And if you have a problem, you feel like someone's right beside you. And I really appreciate that. So yeah, I've absolutely, I would tell anyone to go to you and learn from you learn from you on the program.  Allen: Yeah, we try. I mean, we're not perfect. And we don't work weekends. But some people, some people are like, Oh, I bought this thing on Saturday. Why haven't I got it yet? I have questions. I'm like, Oh, we don't work weekends, you know. See that's part of the job here. You know, I talked about it on the podcast, and the books and everything. It's like freedom. You know, that's the ultimate, the ultimate goal is freedom. And however you define it, yeah, the time to do what you want the money to do what you want, and you just, you know, if you want to go here, do this, or whatever, buy whatever you want. Like, I'm so happy and excited that you're feeling a taste of that, you know, it's like, "Okay, if I'm going to work, I'm going to make X dollars, but I can always be laid off". I can always get hurt. I can always, you know, get sick. I mean, so many people right now are getting sick and they can't work and they're all scared because they don't know what they're going to do. And you know, the fact that you're you found something that you can stay at home, press a few buttons, and you understand it and you're like, Okay, intellectually, I can make this work. And you put in the time in the effort. I've seen that. So kudos to you for that. Because I've seen a lot of people. They're like, Oh, yeah, no, no, this is supposed to be magic. I'm supposed to hit the Escape key and I'm supposed to get money coming out of my computer. Well, it doesn't work that way. You know, you have to put in time, effort, thought process. You have to do it over and over and over again, which you've done for the last two years. You've been putting your dues in I mean, obviously you're not done yet. Right? You still got a long way to go. Matt: Oh, yeah, absolutely my goal is never to be complacent. You know, never think I've no at all, because I do not. There's people out there that are very smart, intelligent, people that are learning, I always look at life, you can learn somebody, something from everyone, just like all the people, all the books that I've read, if you can get one good thing out of them, you can learn something from them, you're all the better. You know, I just learned to not look at one thing as the way there could be multiple ways. But you know, you have to take the good and almost make it your own as well. You know it, but it's on you. And you as you get older, you realize that it is on you to make this decisions. I don't want to bury my head in the sand and just hope you know, I wake up at 65 and I'm retired. So it's a process. And luckily, I fell in love with it. Allen: That's great. That's great. So let's say you get your goal and you're making 5600 a month from your trading. You still going to work? Matt: I think initially I mean, you know, it's a wonderful question to answer. I think initially, I would go with part time, because I like I do like my job. I do enjoy driving a forklift. But um, it would allow me to do some other things that I would want to do in life. I mean, I like gardening, I like painting, maybe learn Spanish, I always want to learn Spanish, you know, and I could put my efforts towards that. It's just, it opens a whole another world for you. And I mean, it really does. And it gives you a chance to maybe go into some things that you never dreamed that you would be. For instance, after this, I'm going on a boat, I would never dream that I would learn, I always didn't want to drive a boat, I was afraid to drive a boat, I was afraid I was gonna to crash into a dock. But I'm a member of a book club now. And I'm going to go out my wife after this podcast and get on a boat. And I'm learning how to drive and docket and it's like I believe trading is broad and open that world for me. Because I'm no longer fearful making mistakes. And I'm going to learn from them. And, you know, if I crashed into into a dock, so be it. I'll learn from it. And I'll get better. So that's the way I approach life now. And I think trading is a big part of that. Allen: Oh, that's wonderful. So the fact that you've been you've had some success in the trading has given you confidence in other areas of your life. Matt: Absolutely. That's something I can ever believe. Yeah, absolutely. Allen: That's so beautiful. Okay, so let's say one of your fellow employees at Costco, you're at Costco, right? Yes, yeah. So if one of your fellow employees at Costco comes up to you and says, Matt, man, I got to do something. You know, you told me you talked about trading a little bit, how do I how do I get started? What do I do? How do I make sure that I don't lose money? Matt: Well, go to Option Genius. But I would more so I would tell them that, you know, it's a process and you have to put in the work. There's no shortcuts. And you know, people say that all the time. And you have to really believe that in your heart, and you have to put in the work. And thank goodness paper trades out there. And you can make mistakes and learn from them. And just keep trying. And then when you're ready, do it. Somy advice is to absolutely take it slow. You know, everyone's different. You could paper trade three months, six months, but don't be hanging up for a year paper trading. I mean, you want to get out there and try. So but do it with a little bit of money that you're finally losing, and then just go on from there and reevaluate your process. So that's the advice that I would give them. And, of course, I want to help everyone out there, you know, because I have co workers that are in the same, I know the grind they go through each day. They're hard working people, they're looking for the same thing I am that they're trying to look, you know, to better their life or help people that are left to right of them, and get through and improve it. And, you know, this is out there for them. So I've just tell it, take it slow, be patient. I mean, it's very difficult to be patient, especially this day and age. But if you can harness that patience, you can achieve what you want to achieve. Allen: Well said, Well said. Yeah, I mean, you know, the cool thing is that we've I guess since you started, I think you've been sending us emails every once in a while. Matt: Probably a little crazy. Yes. Allen: Yeah no it's okay. It's not crazy? I mean, you know, I bombard people with email, we generally like to sometimes people, some people get three emails a day from us, it's like crazy. We need to work on that. Matt: I'm one of those people. And I'm like, wow, I'm like, man this is something else. Allen: There's too much going on. Yeah. So we need to work on a little bit there. But you know, so it's been fun to watch your progress over the past. You know, it's like, I try to if there's a trading email or whatnot, I try to read those. And if I don't answer them, at least I try to read and see what's going on. And I've seen your emails come through, and it's like, you know, this guy, he's getting it, you know? And whenever you ask a question, it's like, there there are some people that they're nice about it. And then there are some people who are like they expect the moon and the stars and everything in an email like, "Hey, I'm on your list. I want you to tell me every one of your secrets". Like how am I supposed to do that in an email? Matt: Yeah that's impossible. Allen: We share that for you. Like we could have a course about that. It would be like a 20 million-hour course. I could share everything and bring an email. I'm not writing all that stuff. But the fact that you took it slow and methodical and whenever you, you did the work. And then when you had a question, it was specific to that particular thing. So you could tell when I'm reading, I can tell, okay, this guy is actually trying to learn, he's actually trying to trade. And this has given me a question based on his actual experience. So I mean, that's in, you know, for those of you who are listening and be like, Oh, well, I asked a question, I didn't get an answer. Or, you know, he didn't give me a complete answer or whatever. It also depends on, you know, how you approach the question how the question is asked, and if it's gonna make sense or not, because we do get inundated with trading questions, and how do I do this? And how do I do that? And without proper background, we can't even give individual moves. Legally, we can't give individual advice. But even trading questions, it's like, okay, if I don't have the proper background into what you were thinking, when you were looking at a trade, then I can't give you a, you know, what I would do even because if I'm looking at a chart, and I think it's going to go down, and you think it's gonna go up, whatever I tell you, it's gonna be the opposite. And you'll be like, that doesn't make any sense. So I love the way that you have approached this. And you've been, you know, slowly, methodically, you pick something you realized from the beginning, you knew what you want it, you knew your why you understand, you know, compound interest, you understand how that works? And it's not going to happen overnight. How long do you think it took you until you started becoming like, consistently profitable? Matt: I would say about three or four months where I felt consistent, you know, first, you know, you could say, Oh, you know, it could be you just not, you're not sure until you really feel like, okay, I can repeat this month after month. And third kind of understanding, you know, not only the positives of a trade, but also the negatives, and you start kind of wrapping your head around it and start feeling comfortable, but not complacent, then you start, you feel like you're on the right road, so that that feelings and the results probably about three to four months for me specifically where I felt confident about the trade. Allen: Okay, and you trade the same stocks over and over again? Or do you choose different ones every time? Matt: I'm looking, you know, basically the same. You know, I tell the story, way back, I bought Airbnb, you know, an IPO, which stands for is probably overpriced. And I consider it as a mistake. But my wife and I did a covered call together, and we literally push the button together. And we're like, we made like, 500 some dollars off of that. And I was just like, we were just like, baffled, like, wait a minute that actually work. Like we just got paid for that. And we're just like, How can that be? So, you know, I read books on covered calls and things like that. And, you know, there's there's downfalls of covered calls as well, the dark side as you speak. And it's important to, to learn all the different strategies. But the point is, you don't need to know a ton of strategies to be successful, I think it's important for the viewer to focus on one and get really comfortable before you move on to other things. And I feel that's kind of where I am with oil now I'm comfortable with a trade and now unwilling to go into another world, and kind of explain that or, you know, explore that, and I'll take that slow as well. And, you know, it just starts being well, and overall process and you bring it together. And it's all about learning and what a beautiful thing. Allen: Yep. Yep. Very beautiful. So, and there might be some skeptics listening to this. And they'll be like, Well, you know, the last two years, we've had a really good bull market. So are you prepared for choppy market volatile market? down market? bear market? How would you adjust to that situation? Allen: You know, I think it's, I look back, I'm actually reading your book right now, how to hedge, you know, all the hedging strategies, and what I always call my replay in my mind, what will I do if there's a big crash, and I don't think you can ever, you know, fully prepare yourself, but there's a lot of things that you can do. I think the most important part of that is knowing a valuable company, it's knowing what kind of strategy you're going to use, you can never do bull put spreads continually, because you're going to get hit at some point. Right. So again, learn how to do a bear call spread and do some different things to hedge your position. So it you know, that's education by itself, but there's definitely some big things. You know, you got to look at each thing of, you know, a comfort level and then continuing education. I definitely am. I'll continue to get better at that as well. Allen: Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, there's no way to tell which way the market is going, you know. Matt: Sure. Allen: I mean, we've been lucky that we've had a nice fed induced (inaudible) rally recently, the last couple years. But again, we don't know how long that's going to last and what's going to happen after that. But as somebody who has been doing this for, you know, a little bit longer than you have. Matt: Much longer. Allen: It's good to be able to, like you said, you know, understand the different strategies as well. And you said you've done you know, two or three of them and you've, you've practiced them over and over again. So that when things do change, that you can also see that coming and then you can change with it. So You know, I was talking to someone earlier today, and we were talking about and he was, he was asking about iron condors. And he's like, yeah, you know, I've tried honor condors didn't work at all. So how do you make them work? I said, Well, you know, every strategy doesn't work for every person. Some people might like one strategy, and they're really good at it. And somebody else, their brother might try it. And their brother might be horrible at it. You know, it's different risk tolerances, and different personalities will tell what strategy you should work on. And so.. Matt: Yeah, that's really fascinating. Like you said earlier, you know, we talked about how you can get the same trade as somebody, it just turns out different. And I think it's, it's fascinating in psychology, and it's also how, you know, you think of a trade and everyone's into individual to that trade. So it's pretty interesting. Allen: And you said, you had studied psychology, right? in school? Matt: Yeah, I have a degree in psychology from the University of Alabama. And, you know, I just, I never knew what I wanted to do in college. And it's interesting, I find myself using it. Now. I it's the psychology of the markets. And I think about how why people sell and why people buy and, you know, a lot of it's fear based, sometimes people that are very smart, do stupid things. You know, you just think that it's not that way, but it is very true. So it's, it's a whole, I never thought I'd be using psychology, but I do. I'm fascinated why people think the way they do. Allen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It's very interesting. Yeah. I mean, I've been a big fan of psychology, just trying to understand myself, you know, and most of the time, like, you know, when we try to figure out, okay, hey, this stock went down today, what happened? A lot of times, we can't figure it out. I don't know, there's so many. There's so many background factors. But I think the study of psychology really helps in the big picture thinking, you know, you might not be able to figure out exactly why a stock moved up and down, depending on if there's some news about it. But the overall market like, hey, if this happens, then this is how people react. And then this is how they think. And then this is what happens in the stock market. So it's definitely a learning experience. And something that comes with years of experience, as you get used to it, say, Okay, I saw this happened. So I, I expected this to happen because of that. So it's really interesting. Allen: I really appreciate your time, Matthew, and just wanted to give you one more, you know, like hey, is there anything else that last words that you want to share with our audience?  Matt: Just I encourage people that are, you know, maybe thinking just like how I am, you know, they're out there working everyday life, and they just don't think that this is possible, and I just wanted to really encourage them to, you know, take a shot at it. And really, you know, if you're really interested in it, and put your 100% into it. And, you know, you could really surprise you on the other end, what life has to offer to you if you really get into it. And trading is a wonderful way to do that. So I'd really encourage people of all walks of life to try to better their situation, I think it's a great, great avenue to do so. Allen: Right. And you got started again, how? Just by reading a book? Matt: Yeah, I was just really looking at a compound interest chart. I was just, I just looked at it. And I was like, man, I could just kind of see the overall plan. I was like, I didn't know, you know, you know, everyone wants to be rich, and they want to have enough money. And it was a different feeling. At that time, I was young, and you know, mostly when you're young, or just want to get things and accumulate things and, you know, burn the world down. And that's not the case, as you get older, usually, you know, you, you find out what's really important. And to me, it's time with family and friends. And once I saw that chart, I could see the kind of overall kind of structure if you will, what I want to do. And then now as I got into it, I started filling in the blanks and seeing what way to get there. And trading is really kind of sped that process up. And I'm very excited about it. Allen: So do you see yourself like, okay, hey, you know, and this year, or this keeps up and you know, this age, I'm going to be a millionaire or 100 millionaire or something like that-  that doesn't appeal to you, right? Or does it sometimes? Matt: You know, like, I have a goal of turning you know, our money and making a million dollars. And that's, I wrote it down and seven years, I'd like to do that. If I don't get there, I'm not going to be upset about it. Like I said, you have to be happy about the process and excited about the process. And long as you're generally heading the right way. You can't help but be happy. I mean, if there's little setbacks, but if your general trajectory is moving forward, that's all you can ask for. And we're excited about that. So, you know, the number is less of a issue to me, as I get into it, you know, it's a great thing. And it's a great byproduct of what we're doing. But I think you just got to really look inward and be contentment and what really makes you happy in life, whatever it is you'd like to do. So, you know, money is just a tool to get there. And I I really feel that at this age, you know, it took me 20 years to figure that out. But yeah, it's exciting. Allen: Yeah, I totally agree with you and I'm excited for you, man. It's Just like, you know, you just get started now it's just, it's just up from here, you know, it's just the sky's the limit, and you know, a million dollars one day, you're gonna be like, Oh, that was nothing, you know? Let's go for 3, let's go for 5. Matt: You know, if not, I always say, Hey, you know, I can be happy I took a shot at So, you know, yeah, I left everything on the table. And that's what you have to do. And I couldn't be happier about that. Allen: But you've gotten it done. You know, it's not, it's not like, You got lucky, you've been doing it for consistently, you know, over and over and over again. And yeah, we've had a good market. And that helps. But you know, every market can be a good market, if you know what you're doing. So the fact that.. Matt: I'm very worried about that, because I started investing in 2009. Okay, so I've never seen a crash. And I know that and I'm aware that and I also look at, hey, what are my feelings going to be? And I try to read books about it, and listen to people and talk about their experiences, because I want to know what to do in that situation. So I could, that's a continuation thing for me. I mean, I know I have not been in a crash. That's all been up for me. And but I do know that I have to be wary of that. And I have to have a plan for that. And that's what I'm doing right now. So, you know, I don't want to get complacent and that I'm winning and winning and winning, because losses could be around the corner. And I just gotta know how to mitigate that process. Allen: So and see, I mean, just that comment right there. That's like, you know, this guy knows what he this guy's got a head good head on his shoulders. You know, he's not he's not overconfident. And he's not like, Oh, yeah, this is gonna happen for the rest of my life. I'm just gonna make money every month. No, I mean, I've been looking at it from all different angles, and you've been practicing and trading and different things. And you said, Oh, yeah, I've been doing put spreads. But I'm also doing call spreads, you know, because eventually, I'm going to need them. So it's like, yeah, there you go. That's it. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you do it the right way. You're doing it really the right way. And you started small and you're, you know, slowly, slowly, you're increasing. But you're still sticking to, you know, something that's manageable. You're not Oh, like you said that one trade I had. I mean, oh my god, out of 60 trades you've only lost one that's like, incredible. I never heard anybody do that. That's like, Well, can I give you my money? I want to go sail around the world here. You just take it in, take care of it for me. Matt: You can't have it back on if I lose it? Yeah. Allen: No, I think you'll be okay because you're getting prepared for it. You know, you're not blindsided. It's like, yeah, this is part of it. I've seen it. You know, you've maybe you haven't seen it yourself. But you've heard of it. But you're not. What are you like, 45 years at? Matt: I'm 45 Allen: Yeah, so you've been alive when there has been crashes? And oh, yeah. and stuff, you know, the.com bubble, everybody still remembers that? No, tell you about that. And, and stuff like that. So it's not like it's something completely out of the blue for you. If somebody was like 15 years old, or 20 years old - they're like, Oh, yeah, you know, I've never seen America crash. It's never gonna crash. But yeah, it's there. And you are, you're rounding out what I, you know, like, it's like, it's not just, you focused on something you learned about it, you practiced it, and you're like, Okay, this is working. Now I need to add to it, I need to add another skill, I need to add another skill. And you're, and you're still adding, that's the coolest thing that you're still growing, you're still learning. And you're still humble enough about it, so that you're like, you know, hey, I'm still working. And I work hard, and I have a good job, and I like it. But I would like to have more. And then eventually, I'm gonna work part time. That's really cool. Yeah. Matt: I actually parallel investing with running a marathon. You know  running marathons is a very difficult process, and it takes a lot of work. And there's a lot of dips along the way, and at times you feel like quitting, and there's a point of elation, and you have an angle. And I kind of feel like that kind of parallels my trading style. So I know that there's going to be, you know, mile 15 is going to be horrible. And mile 18 could be even worse. And then you get the mile 24 and you're like, elated. It's almost at the end. And that's kind of how investing is, you know, you have great times and you have terrible times. And you have to, you know, when you're training, you're accounting for all these processes along the way. You know, what shoes do I wear? How do I do this? If it rains? How do I count for this? I don't feel good. How do I account for that? What did I eat? all that stuff is very similar to how trading is in trading really, you learn a lot about yourself, just like you do in marathon running. I mean, you learn about what you're really made of, and the risk that you take and who you are as a person. So I think there's a lot of parallels there. Allen: Wow, yeah, I've never run a marathon but it sounds horrible. Matt: Yeah, I mean, people are like, they're either they do it or they want it done. I've got the bug. I was crazy. I decided doing but um, I don't do them anymore. I maybe maybe have one or two. I mean, I will see but uh, you know, I want to keep my knees going into my 50s. Allen: Cool. All right, Matthew. I really appreciate it. This was great. I mean, it's wonderful to see you know, somebody go from knowing nothing to making you know, four grand a month trading part time. And, you know, it's like, Hey, I can do this. If you can do for you can eventually do more, and it'll replace your income and make all your dreams come true. So kudos to you for getting in the path, taking the risk, and trying it out, learning, spending the time, and I hope that people listen to this and they're encouraged by it, they're inspired by you, I mean  when I heard your story, I was like, "we gotta get Matthew on the show". You know, forklift driver to early retiree. Matt: Yeah I hope so. I appreciate you guys and I can't thank you enough, you and your team, that there's actually people out there that teach this stuff and actually care about people, because there's a lot of people that don't have it all and I really appreciate that. Allen: Thank you Matt: Yeah I'm sure your viewers appreciate it as well. Allen: Yeah thank you for hanging out with us. Matt: Alright, thank you. LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Matt (@MattWi77iams) & John (@MLBMovingAvg) break down Week 2 betting lines and the slate on DraftKings. - Game by game betting totals from John - Best inexpensive stacks for GPP from Matt - All the Noah Fant - Chalk to fade/Chalk to jump on

Todd: Hello, Matt!Matt: Hello, Todd!Todd: Matt, I'm going to ask you some questions about pets.Matt: OK.Todd: First question, do you have a pet?Matt: Yes, my pet at my mom's house we have three pets; two dogs and a cat. My family actually raises dogs for helping blind people.Todd: Oh, really?Matt: Yeah.Todd: Wow, like how do they train the dogs?Matt: How do they train the dogs? Well, I mean it's a long process right? We get them when they're puppies and so we train them basic. You know, sit, come... really basic things. Then after they're about two year old they go to a different training school.Todd: Oh, wow. That's great!Matt: Yeah!Todd: Well, how many dogs do they usually train at a time?Matt: Oh, just one. We have our own dog and then we have a dog that we have that we are training.Todd: Oh, OK.Matt: Yeah, just one dog at a time.Todd: Do you ever see the dogs you trained like out on the street or anything?Matt: Sometimes we see them. They'll have like sort of conventions of reunions of the pets. Yeah, you get to see them every once in a while.Todd: Oh, wow! That's cool. Why do people keep pets?Matt: I guess the most important thing is companionship, right? So there is always somebody there for you that will like you no matter what.Todd: Yeah, that's true. OK. Besides cats, dogs and fish, what are some other pets people keep?Matt: Well, I guess if you are Siegfried and Roy you can keep a tiger or lion. I guess all types of things don't they?Todd: Yeah.Matt: I mean, my friend has a snake. I don't know if you mention that snake, ferrets and insects, spiders...Todd: OK.Matt: All kinds of things.Todd: All right. Yeah, like there is so many. What are some costs associated with keeping a pet?Matt: Food is probably the biggest cost. But also if you keep the dog, particularly a dog in your house when they are puppies and we have a lot of puppies they'll chew up everything they can so we're constantly replacing shoes and you know, cleaning up pee from the carpet and things like that. It can be a hassle.Todd: Yeah, OK. Thanks a lot Matt. By the way, where are you from?Matt: I'm from the U.S.A., from Minnesota.

Todd: Hello, Matt!Matt: Hello, Todd!Todd: Matt, I'm going to ask you some questions about pets.Matt: OK.Todd: First question, do you have a pet?Matt: Yes, my pet at my mom's house we have three pets; two dogs and a cat. My family actually raises dogs for helping blind people.Todd: Oh, really?Matt: Yeah.Todd: Wow, like how do they train the dogs?Matt: How do they train the dogs? Well, I mean it's a long process right? We get them when they're puppies and so we train them basic. You know, sit, come... really basic things. Then after they're about two year old they go to a different training school.Todd: Oh, wow. That's great!Matt: Yeah!Todd: Well, how many dogs do they usually train at a time?Matt: Oh, just one. We have our own dog and then we have a dog that we have that we are training.Todd: Oh, OK.Matt: Yeah, just one dog at a time.Todd: Do you ever see the dogs you trained like out on the street or anything?Matt: Sometimes we see them. They'll have like sort of conventions of reunions of the pets. Yeah, you get to see them every once in a while.Todd: Oh, wow! That's cool. Why do people keep pets?Matt: I guess the most important thing is companionship, right? So there is always somebody there for you that will like you no matter what.Todd: Yeah, that's true. OK. Besides cats, dogs and fish, what are some other pets people keep?Matt: Well, I guess if you are Siegfried and Roy you can keep a tiger or lion. I guess all types of things don't they?Todd: Yeah.Matt: I mean, my friend has a snake. I don't know if you mention that snake, ferrets and insects, spiders...Todd: OK.Matt: All kinds of things.Todd: All right. Yeah, like there is so many. What are some costs associated with keeping a pet?Matt: Food is probably the biggest cost. But also if you keep the dog, particularly a dog in your house when they are puppies and we have a lot of puppies they'll chew up everything they can so we're constantly replacing shoes and you know, cleaning up pee from the carpet and things like that. It can be a hassle.Todd: Yeah, OK. Thanks a lot Matt. By the way, where are you from?Matt: I'm from the U.S.A., from Minnesota.

The ink is drying on the signature line and things are looking great for our buyer. After so much hard work, the finish line is in sight and the cheering within ear shot.   Though the landlord is still serving friction, things seem safe to move forward and for now, our buyer will be keeping on the entire team. With the closing just around the bend, will all of our efforts and close attention to detail finally pay off? They say dot your I's and cross your T's, lets hope there isn't one more wrench looking for an engine. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right, welcome to episode 7 of our Behind the Buy series of Legally Sound Smart Business. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I'm Matt Staub. NASIR: And this is closing day. Probably the most not exciting part of buying a business or this process, at least from an attorney's perspective because even though there's a lot in this episode, it's kind of underwhelming because if we did our jobs correctly, it's a non-event. MATT: Right, honestly, if it is exciting, then that means something bad has happened. When everything's closed, you want to make sure that there's no fireworks that day because we've seen it before, something could happen at the last minute. There's a contingency that needs to be satisfied still and there's a question of that again, if something's blowing up that day, it's not good. NASIR: Correct, and I do enjoy that kind of last-minute shuffle and trying to figure things out, usually like you said, there's problems, there's other people involved trying to figure that out, but in this case, it turned out well. I don't think I'm giving too much away because the transaction itself, even though there's been a few bumps in the road has been relatively smooth and I think that is hopefully some credence to our ability to make it smooth even with the bumps in the road, but I think also the main component was the time. This wasn't a close that we had to do in a week. I think this was a course of a couple months or so, and that gives us quite a bit of leeway to actually deal with some of these issues. MATT: Sure, I mean that certainly helps, but like you said too, on our end, it's problem-solving so the listeners have heard the various problems that arose throughout the escrow period and it's really looking at those face on, addressing them and then strategizing to what's the best way to approach it because oftentimes nothing's going to be perfect if a problem arises, but it's really trying to mitigate the risk and find something that's going to be as seamless as possible. Preferably for our client, but ideally, I guess for both just to keep things going. NASIR: Right, so we're going to play this call. It's actually pretty short, but there's actually quite a bit in there, so listen carefully because we're going to break it down in detail especially what's going on before and after this particular call is going to be a big focus for us, so let's listen in. MATT: All right. MATT: Hello. NASIR: Happy closing day. BUYER: Yes, very glad to be through this and finally get started on the actual business. NASIR: We thought we'd just have a quick call on what you can expect today, and also catch you up on our recording a little. I know we've been talking about a lot of this stuff offline through email, but let me review it again. Typically, closings are not much of an event as you may think, but they actually are typical -- they used to sit in an office and exchange signatures and kind of a formality or some formalness to it, but that's rarely done now in our experience. In fact, just yesterday, you gave us the signature pages which today, we'll actually exchange those signatures with the seller. Matt, do you mind going over the closing package just to make sure she knows what's in there? MATT: Yeah, sure. The main thing is finalizing the exhibits of the listed assets. We're not excluding any assets of business except accounts receivable and cash on hand.

Good morning everybody! I was on with Matt this morning and we had a good discussion about the security problems introduced by internet-connected medical devices know as IoMT. Let's get into my conversation with Matt on WGAN. These and more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Craig We still today have some of that same equipment that hospitals had 20 years ago. And most of it never gets updated. And the big reason is they say, Well listen, if we change the software in it if we do an update or an upgrade then recertification is necessary. Hey, happy hump day, everybody. Greg Peters here on this morning on mains radio stations with Matt, and we talked about a couple of my top issues this week. Matt always picks the best ones out of the hat. Matt 736 on the WGAN Morning News. It is Wednesday morning. On a Wednesday at that time means that it's time to talk to Craig Peterson, our tech guru joins us on Wednesdays to talk about all things technology. Craig, welcome to the program. Craig Hey, that's me. Matt That it is. You are also heard at this very station some other time. Right? What is it exactly that you're on this thing? The weekend or something? I don't know. Unknown Speaker 1:04 Saturday at one o'clock. We go into, of course, more detail and, and more of the articles that I publish every week. Like those, I send it to you, Matt. Matt Indeed, indeed. So let's talk I was talking a moment ago about telehealth and whatnot. So let's get the health prognosis on the security of some cool devices known as IoMT devices. Am I getting that right? Craig Yeah, exactly. That's the internet of medical things. Matt Ah, another good acronym for me to remember. Craig Exactly. Well, at least, you know, in the computer world, we have a lot of TLS three-letter acronyms. And this is an FMLA, a four-letter acronym. Oh, yeah. Matt All right. Well, it's a good question, though. Because with all of the medical connections we're making, I guess you could say. People are probably very concerned about the security of their health data and everything. Else than that, perhaps it is getting passed back and forth by these things. So how, how secure are they? Craig Yeah, well, here's your big problem. These devices are utterly insecure, for the most part. Excellent. Isn't that wonderful? Good news. Good news. Welcome to Hump Day. Yeah, here's the problem. We have all of these medical equipment in our hospitals. That's hooked up to the internet. I remember the first time I got a chain of hospitals as a client, man, and this would have been the mid-90s, I think it was. And they had all of these different machines, X-ray machines and others hooked up to their network. And I started to look into it back then it's been a long time and found Well, first of all, they had a flat-network. They were doing everything wrong. But we still today have some of that same equipment that hospital had 20 years ago. And most of it never gets updated. And the big reason is they say, Well listen, if we change the software, and if we do it An update or an upgrade requiring recertification. We're talking about everything from pumps through an implanted, auto distributed, or pacemaker that might be in someone's chest, these x-ray machines, these CAT scan machines, all of these things. Hospitals do seem to think that they just cannot do an update because then they actually would violate the law. The federal government kind of cleared up over the last few weeks, here saying no, no, no, no, in fact, we are encouraging you to run updates. Put them on, because these older machines are still running, believe it or not, Windows 95 XP or Windows seven. Operating systems that are no longer supported. Many of these machines have never been upgraded, which puts us all at risk, in this case, physical peril. Matt I'm talking to Craig Peterson, our tech guru. He joins us periodically to talk about what's going on in the world of technology. Speaking of privacy, and questions like this, what's Amazon up to these days? I understand they told Congress something that was not true. Is that accurate? Craig One might think that that never happens, right? But here's what's going on. If you are a small business, of course, right now, things are probably more challenging for you than for a big retailer. Many small companies have been selling through Amazon, and it's been a great little channel for them. With almost half of the products sold on Amazon are being sold by third parties. But the problem that right now is that Amazon has come out with its own line products. Now, you might not be aware of this, but Amazon does have some of its own brands, that it's selling online. These are their private-labeled brand. There's more than 145 of them now. And you'll see them like Amazon essentials, which is Amazon, right and Amazon basic. They have other things like spotted zebra, which is a kid's clothing, clothing line, Hayden rose, stolen being those are all Amazon brands. Now apparently, they lied to Congress. No, they told Congress that they don't use merchant data. What they were doing is looking at all of these small vendors saying what is selling? Well, what kind of a margin could we have if we sold the same or similar products and went right around that small vendor that might have developed this product, and then introducing them as one of these hundred and 45 private label brands? Several regulatory probes are starting up concerning this in the US and the European Union. They opened, in fact, the EU and investigation last year. And they're probing Amazon's use of quote, "competitively sensitive information about the marketplace, sellers, their product transactions on the marketplace," unquote, to boost their own retail business. Matt Craig Peterson, our tech guru, joins us on Wednesdays to talk about the world of technology. And you can hear him on this very station Saturdays at one o'clock, where he goes into more depth and detail about all of these stories and so many more, Greg, appreciate it as always, and we look forward to talking to you again next week. Craig Take care, man. Bye. You bet. Matt All right, coming up next. Hey, everybody, take care Craig Craig Peterson here and we'll be back this weekend with my radio show. Some more podcasts. I did a Facebook Live. I don't know if you were able to attend them this week. I did not promote them. But I will be, I'll tell you. We'll have people sign up for a select live list for my email, so make sure you're on that Craig peterson.com slash subscribe. Take care. Bye Transcribed by https://otter.ai --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

Good morning everybody! I was on with Matt and Marty (who was sitting in for Ken.) We had a good discussion about election technology and what different states are doing to assure that they are secure.  We also talked about the FBI and Homeland Security about Passwords and Passphrases and security.  Here we go These and more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Craig If the Secretaries of State get hacked, I'm not sure we can feel comfortable. Would they even know that hacking occurred? If they did, it would be much after the fact. Craig So well, this morning, I was talking on WGAN in their affiliates about some of the voting technology, you know, Super Tuesday is coming up. I compared some of the election technology in different states. What's good. What's bad. We talked about the new FBI press release that came out, that is I hope going to have a significant impact on security. It is fascinating stuff. So here we go. Craig By the way, I talked a little bit about our tutorials and coming up. Yeah, man, You won't believe the work that went into these all for you. It is part of my give back. I am not trying to sell you, upsell you, or anything else with these. Anyways, here we go with this morning on Ken and Matt more. Joe things technology.t tech guru Craig Peterson is on right now on the WGAN Morning News with Ken and Matt. Matt Alright, we're back ladies gentlemen it is 738 on the WGAN morning news with Ken and also Matt. There is no Ken today. There is a Marty Groman he is over there. He is still wearing the Mardi Gras beads. Marty I am, Yeah, the party's just wearing off now. How many Mardi Gras jokes Do you get to do? Is it a party for me? Matt You know, I should have a whole roster of them. Marty But you don't work out times in the early 90s. Back in the good old days. The real Mardi Gras. Yeah, way down there. The crew of Baucus indeed. Matt Well, I don't know if Craig Peterson's ever been to Mardi Gras, but he joins us now to go over what's happening in the world of technology. Craig, How are you this week? Craig Hey, I'm doing well. Yeah, there's a lot of party stuff. A Marty McFly, Cartoon Network has one of their top shows right now as Marty character in it to see. So yeah, he's getting around. Marty Everyone's getting on the bandwagon. Matt I don't know how to segue. So we're going to go ahead and just move into the attack already. Well, we do have an election coming up. Craig Peterson. Of course, in South Carolina, we've already seen a few primaries as well. And they've all gone smoothly with no trouble as we all know. There is an evolving question, though, that every time we have an election, we sort of debate and talk about and ask ourselves a very similar question? How can we make sure that these things are on the up and up? How do we make sure that our voting is secure? How do we make sure that it is all done correctly, and that nobody hacking and changing votes and manipulating things? On a more fundamental level? How do we protect our elections in technology? Craig Yeah, real big question a big problem. There are a few states have and, in fact, quite a few now that are using these election machines that we've grown to know and love, where we have a piece of paper effectively. And you fill in those little ovals there using the pencil or felt tip pen, right. You guys are familiar with those, right? Because you voted, right. Yeah. Those are right now, anyway, the best type of technology used for voting. There are other states and go all the way on the other side, and use these touchscreen voting machines that are running Windows XP. Now Windows XP hasn't been supported for many, many, many years, and they are connecting them to networks. When you vote, you just you touch the screen saying you're voting for so and so but some of these machines, they've got configured steal tickets. So you say, I'm voting Republican, or I'm voting Democrat. Or maybe you have Libertarian in that in a state right. People have repeatedly complained that the machines are improperly registering their votes. They'll say I'm voting for President Trump but somehow was recorded for Bernie Sanders. Right? That's, that's kind of the nightmare scenario. We don't want to see this Fall. If you vote and your votes not counted or correctly counted. When these things hit the news, and there is no audit trail like in some of these states, all you have is this computer that identifies that you voted for Bernie Sanders, even though you meant to vote for Donald J. Trump. They hit the news, all of a sudden everyone's all worried that somehow maybe my vote didn't count. Maybe there's cheating going on. Both of these could be true when using some of these types of technology. So there is a $10 million contract that has been awarded, it was awarded last year to come up with a secure voting machine. It looks like it's going to be more of a secure method of voting. There are so many ways that voting can be hacked. I just mentioned the machines themselves. If they are connected to a network ever, there is a potential for hacking. Optical Scanning machines used in New Hampshire are never connected to networks. They're loaded up, they put a little, basically a thumb drive into them, and they dump what the load is all about. But ultimately, there are multiple places that it could be hacked and could be hacked at the Secretary of State's office, where they're compiling all the votes from all of these machines throughout the state. It could be hacked again at the Secretary of State's office but on the website, where they post results, and where the federal government goes to get the results from the Secretaries of State. There's nothing fancy about how the votes are collected nationally. So your question going right back to it, Matt, have Can we trust the election? How can we trust the vote? Right now, I'd say here in Maine we are in pretty good shape. In the majority of states are in pretty good shape. There was a lot of money. I can't remember the numbers, exact number but a lot of money that was set aside and given to states to upgrade their voting machines. The temptation is always as we talked to with Ken here about this a couple of weeks ago. Should we buy the Betamax right or buy the newest, greatest latest, and coolest technology? We see right now from the FBI and Homeland Security reports, generally speaking at this point, it doesn't look like there will be a lot of problems this year. There was disclosed some significant issues in few states in the 2016 election with problems with hacking attempt, explicitly directed at the Secretaries of States in several different countries. Those Secretaries of State have been informed about it, those of them that come out recently. Ultimately, I guess we won't know how good it is until sometime after the fact. That part of it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy, is that the average time to figure out a hack occurred is your business is around six months. If the Secretaries of State get hacked, I'm not sure we can feel comfortable, would even know that they've been hacked. If they did, it wouldn't be much after the fact. So just let's stick with the old fashioned way for now, because it's the best way, the brand new way, by the way, that $10 million award. It looks like they are leaning towards a paper solution as well. So it's an electronic voting machine. And you touch the screen so that you vote for people you want. It spits out a piece of paper with your votes on it, you then take that piece of paper with your votes on it, and you give it to ever to whoever is, is running that little local election, they run it through a scanning machine. That is not much different from what we're doing today. And that's, that's a suggestion as to what the most secure type of voting will be. Marty Craig, it's, it's Marty. So yeah, it fills in the Oval for you then. But let me ask you if I may change topics on you a little bit. These trackers kind of drive me bonkers, right. When I when I visit, you know, the onion dot com or something the banner ads seem like they take forever to load. I added the DuckDuckGo extension to Google Chrome, and it cut that right off. I mean, what is your take was was that a good idea? A bad or bad idea? Craig Well, we've just had over 500 extensions removed from the Chrome extensions store, store, even though they're free, right, you have to pay for them. And as a general rule, I advise against using those extensions. In about two weeks, Marty, I'm going to have some training that I'm going to be releasing that's free. I'm not trying to upsell you or trying to sell you anything about some of these extensions that are going to keep your information safe. Now DuckDuckGo is well known as one of the best guys out there when it comes to blocking your tracking. Some of the others that I'm going to be covering in training include Ghostery, and you should be using HTTPS anywhere, which does something a little bit different. pundants amazing. You block origin and others. I'm going to go through those a couple of hours worth of training that I'll be releasing here in a couple of weeks, but Marty, I think you're right, use DuckDuckGo for your search engine. And there are more and more these extensions that are trying to keep your privacy. And I haven't looked at goes. But as a rule, those guys have been great and make sites load faster. Over to you. Marty That's what it does. Craig Ultimately, you know, all of these different extensions that I just mentioned in there, we're going to be doing this training on all of them will make it load faster. And you take a site like forbes.com that just has a crazy number of trackers on it. And the ads that you mentioned, like the ads, loading, and taking time, it makes Forbes go from about it took four minutes for me the other day to completely load everything on Forbes homepage. It was that bad. Then when I turned on these blocker extensions, it went from four minutes down to five seconds. So they're not only tracking us, but they're making our lives miserable. Trying defined to stuff we're looking for on the page. Right, Marty kids are there cluttered with all this junk too, right? Marty Yeah, it's awful. I frankly, I don't miss it. But it does make it all a little bit cleaner. But back over to Matt, I think you had a question. Sure. Matt I got one more quick one for you before we let you go, Craig. The password that I am going to be required to change in like, I think, a couple of days here at the radio station is among the 8000 different passwords that I have to change all the time. And there are no new recommendations. I understand it from the FBI that we are using passphrases instead of complex passwords. So like instead of d3, 724 dashes, but you know, period, whatever, some crazy combination of letters, whatever we should be using passphrases Why don't you explain that a little bit. Craig Yeah, well, get this quick. I'm going to go into this more on my show on Saturday at 1 pm So you can tune in there. And it's a two-hour show, and we go into quite a bit of depth on some of these things. But I'm glad you brought it up because this is one of the essential pieces of advice in the security world in the last five years. About five years ago, a study came out saying that rather than those types of complicated passwords that you just mentioned is not practical based on today's technology. Here's the bottom line recommendation from the FBI and from the research that's been out there, use a string for random words together, and just put a dash in between each of the terms, or space, whatever you'd like. A passphrase is something that might make sense to you, something that might not make sense at all, but something you can remember, and that's the essential part. Now, if your business, like for instance, Matt, your business might require some more company passwords, you might want to share this article with them. So you still might have to have those crazy ones or numbers, letters, uppercase, lowercase, special symbols, etc. But in reality, those are not the best passwords nowadays, make sure it's at least 15 characters long. Throw a few non-related words. For instance, making America great again would be a lousy password. Marty I thought I was going to use I can't drive 65. So there you go. That's probably not one to use now that you mentioned on the air Marty, that's true. Craig Yeah. But those types of passwords are the best. Matt All right, well, Craig Peterson He is our tech guru. He joins us at this time every Wednesday to go over what's happening. Excuse me in the world of technology. Craig one more time promo for the show, when is it? What time where can you listen to it? What are you going to be talking about? Give me that one more time before you go and then, and then we'll say thanks. Craig Okay. I'm not the automaton that Marty is when you ask that question. The show this Saturday, every Saturday from one till three, I talked about the latest in technology with an emphasis on security. We're going to be talking about some of the cloud services that businesses are using thinking that somehow they're safer, right? But how to make it safer. We'll talk a little bit more about the passwords. Ransomware is on the rise right now. Apple Macintoshes. It turns out there's more malware out there and get a few more things as well. But this weekend shows Saturday at one we're kind of focusing on cloud software. Matt All right, his name is Craig Peterson. He is our tech guru. He joins us at this time every Wednesday to go over what's happening in the world of technology. Today was no exception to that, Craig, thank you very much. And we will talk to you again next week, sir. Craig Gentlemen, take care. Bye-Bye. All right. Appreciate it, Craig. Transcribed by https://otter.ai --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

Good morning everybody! I was on with Ken and Matt. We had a good discussion about Privacy and Monitoring then we got into Kids and Smartphones and a study that says the issues are not as bad as we have been led to believe. Then it was onto the FBI and AG Barr vs Apple Encryption. So here we go with Ken and Matt. These and more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Craig If you have a company phone, monitoring of it is likely because the company doesn't want it to be lost, and if it is, they want to be able to recover it. They want to keep their data safe, all reasonable things. But many companies are now tracking you when you are going outsourcing go to the coffee shop. Hello, everybody. Great Dieter song here. Glad you joined me. A lot of news in tech this week. You got to make sure you catch my show this weekend. We're going to get into smishing a lot more. We're going to be talking about some new research out there about this company that just came out of real secrecy that is ending our privacy. We're going to be talking about a significant change over in Marriott where they're trying to compete like so many brick and mortar businesses with the online world. So what is Marriott doing to compete? I don't think you'd get much more brick and mortar than when it comes to hotels and resorts that they own all over the world. All of that will be coming up this weekend. Make sure you subscribe to my podcast so that you get all of this and more. And let's get off to this morning's conversation with Ken and Matt up in Maine. Ken Welcome to the program, sir. As usual. Yeah. Cold weather. Well, we do live in New England. So you know, it's going to warm up before the snowstorm on Saturday. Craig I lived halfway out in Canada halfway up to the Arctic Circle, and more than halfway actually. And I remember days when the air temperature high was 2030 below zero. And so this isn't so bad. But you know, as you get older, you just don't tolerate it as well, I think. Ken So. You know, I'm looking at your website, which is collectivism.com. You have some exciting topics today, for example, chat. Let me see which ones do we care about? How about somebody named Chet, what do we care about Chet when we're mad and Ken? Matt That's true. It kind of sounds like an older man. Chet was a name from a long time ago. It's true. Craig 2:10 Yeah. A long time ago. I love this article from the Wall Street Journal. They've got a very, very cool illustration on it, where Chet wakes up in the morning, and he goes in and gets his coffee and does things throughout the day. And what the Wall Street Journal is showing is this fictional worker named Chet, as he's going through the day, his employer is tracking his activities. So for instance, when you get up in the morning, most people the first thing they do in the morning and the last thing they do at night is to check their email. Well, if you're checking your email, the business knows Hey, Chet, just checked his email at 635 in the morning, and then if you have a company phone, that phone is probably tracked as a company doesn't want it to be lost. I want to be able to recover it. They want to keep their data safe, all reasonable things. But many companies are now tracking you when you are going out. So say go to the coffee shop. And the local coffee shop has free Wi-Fi. And your phone connects to that free Wi-Fi network. While the business probably has a setup, so it makes a VPN call into them. They've got the GPS coordinates of your location. As you're walking around the office, your phone has Bluetooth on it, and it has Wi-Fi on it. And all of that can be tracked. The big-box retailers are pretty much all tracking us by our cell phones because we connect to their Wi-Fi networks. It is a warning to everybody from the Wall Street Journal, and the stuff we talk about almost every week, about our activities, travels, and the tracking they are doing. And when we're talking about the business side, Chet's phone conversations on his work desk phone, and potentially the cell phone can be recorded, transcribed, and monitored. They know who is calling, but it isn't necessarily looking for bad things from Chet but potentially looking to see to whom he speaks. Is he somebody that's a mover and shaker in the organization? Is he someone who's inspiring other people, helping other people, tutoring mentoring other people. So there is a lot that's going on in just our regular day to day lives. That I think frankly, Ken, a lot of people aren't paying enough attention to this monitoring. We've got to keep an eye on our privacy. I'm going to be talking more about that as well on my show. Matt We are talking to Craig Peterson, our tech guru. He joins us at this time every Wednesday to go over what's happening to excuse me, in the world of technology. A great one that caught my eye here was the discussion Kids phones, my 12-year-old who was about to be 13 got a phone this year against my wishes, but whatever, that's a different conversation. Anyway, he got one. A lot of parents, including myself, have a lot of apprehensions about their kids getting phones and the effect that it has on them and sort of whether or not it leads to, you know, obviously, either anti-social behavior or like depression and whatnot. And then, of course, there's the cyberbullying stuff and all the things that go along with that. So far, I've been rather pleasantly surprised by his level of maturity with the phone and how it has not dominated his life. So now, there's certainly more time for him to disappoint me, but he's done an excellent job with it so far. Nonetheless, the reason I'm bringing it up is you have something to talk about as it relates to research and what it has recently shown and found about sort of kids and cell phone usage. What do you think is essential to communicate about that now? Craig 5:52 Well, I think you're doing some of the right things because cyberbullying is a very, very big deal. I was bullied pretty heavily in As a kid, but back then, it was people you know, their kids using two by fours hit me up the side of the head and pull knives on me, you know, really, really nice school. Um, but nowadays, it's different because back then, yeah, kids usually get away from the bullies, I may be able to see them from a distance, and you know, I can getaway. But nowadays that cell phone goes into your home, and the kids just can't get away from it. Some of the comments that other kids might say can be very, very mean and nasty. So you're right to be worried about that. Another thing people have been worried about, I think legitimately, is, you know, when Ken and I were kids, we got in and got sat in front of the boob tube. And that was kind of our babysitter for part of the day. I know, and they were worried about whether or not it was going to cause problems with our brains. And in some cases, it's pretty apparent that it has right, Ken. Ken I use a TV all the time to babysit my six and a half-year-old twin grandchildren. It is a great babysitter. They have good shows like Mickey Mouse Clubhouse now. Craig Is DisneyPlus subscription? Yes, Ken Yes, all of that and all the Star Wars to my grandkids love Star Wars. Craig Do they? The generation Z's aren't into Star Wars. So what else doesn't work? Well, there was a study published last Friday here, Matt, by two psychology professors and, and they look through some other studies, they come through about 40 different studies, and this is according to the New York Times. They're looking at social media use depression and anxiety amongst adolescents. Is it tied is it related? And these two from one from the University of California, Irvine, who was the lead author published it in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry says, quote, there doesn't seem to be an evidence base that would explain the level of panic and consternation around these issues. So, from what they're saying, there is a right to be concerned here about kid's phones and some adverse effects from the social side. Social media and smartphones with the kids there, they still stand out there questions about their brain development, what by the time they're adolescents, it's nowhere near as big a deal with causing brain development issues as when they're under five years old. But the other thing to really worry about is is what Danny and I were talking about. And he, of course, he's got the smartphones. You guys both have that everybody has a smartphone. There are smishing campaigns. Matt What's Smishing? Craig Smishing is, you know what phishing is, right? Of course. Matt Of course. We have had to take not less than 650,000 online training here at the WGAN morning news about said phishing ploys and whatnot. So, yes, we know that well. Craig 9:12 You do understand the difference between using an ax to cut through the ice to do your fishing in the winter, and when to those screws, instead, Right? Oh, Nevermind. So with smishing, it is another version of phishing, and it's using SMS or text messages. There is a big smishing campaign going on right now. Danny has seen some of these things come through as a lot of people have. I've got an article about it up on my site this week. What's happening is they're pretending they're us. They're pretending they're Apple or pretending they're a lot of other people. So adults know that you don't respond to phishing campaigns. You don't answer these numbers that you don't recognize. You get a text message from Apple. Hey, Does Apple send you texts like this? And expect you to call back, so we don't call back, which is the right thing to do, by the way, all the time. Don't call numbers that you don't recognize and don't answer the phone. But man, how about your 12 or 13-year-old or have you trained him well enough. Do you think Matt Do you think he has run through the full rocky training montage yet? No. Ken Okay, so that's the other thing I'd be worried about. We are talking to Craig Peterson. He is our tech guru. He joins us every Wednesday at 738. You can also hear him on WGAN on Saturdays at one o'clock, and he has a website Craig Peterson dot com. Quickly why does the FBI need Apple to hack into my iPhone? Craig Oh, what a great question. Fantastic question, mate. Hold on, let's just give people, you do understand? Yeah. Matt Well, every once-in-a-while, you know, we leave no clock. Craig The FBI wants to hack into your phone because you've got an iPhone 11 right, Ken Yes. Ken No, no I kept the iPhone 10 because I don't need the 11 Craig  Exactly and that's excellent advice. I think the job, okay. Nicely done. Toys Craig My advice right now is if you're going to get a new phone get an iPhone 10 the XR right now I mean I the XR is that the regulars. Ken I'm going to have a big size. Craig   Okay. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's one of the big moments. So, don't upgrade until the 12 comes out or maybe the 13 until 2021. Maybe 22 because that's when 5g is going to stabilize. Okay, but back to it. Your iPhone 10 probably not the FBI cannot hack into your phone. But some of these other iPhones, the older ones, like the ones that were just used recently in Pensacola. He shot his phone, and phones of that age, they don't need Apple's help to crack into it. But even as probably the FBI is asking for help, perhaps because the phone was so severely damaged, it was shot, right, right in the face. But Apple is excellent about trying to make sure these phones are secure. And the big question here and it's been for a long time, should the FBI or other government agencies be able to break any encryption basically at will or with a court order? And I am torn on this subject. I think they should not be able to because I look at it as our private papers. And we do have a right to privacy in those papers in those records. And nowadays, we're talking about our iPhones, frankly. Matt All right, well, Craig Peterson tech guru extraordinaire, joins us at this time and every Wednesday to go over the world of technology, this being no exception to that. I appreciate you joining us, as always, Greg, and we'll talk to you again next week. Craig  Hey, gentlemen, thanks. Take care. Bye. Bye. You bet. Matt All right, we are going to take a break. Craig  All right, everybody, again, I usually release the Saturday morning. So keep an eye on your email, you're going to want to follow them along. And we're going to be having a unique series of a little podcast but also emails because I want you to have this stuff written so you can share with your friends and family. I know not everybody listens to podcasts, right. And I'm going to be starting to send those out over the next couple of weeks about some specific security things. Some things you can do, using the tools you already have, to make yourself your, your friends, your family's computers, smartphones, etc. more secure, so we'll be going over that, so keep an eye out. Make sure you subscribe if you haven't already. Please subscribe to the podcast I'd appreciate it if you think it's worthwhile. I love it because those are the numbers that I see. My email list is just Craig Peterson dot com slash subscribe, and I send every week an email, and in that, if you scroll down a little bit, you'll see links to each one of my podcasts for the weeks, including my appearances on various shows. And so with that information, you can just click right on the link and listen to that specific podcast. So I appreciate it. Craig peterson.com slash subscribe. Take care, everybody. We'll be back on Saturday. Transcribed by https://otter.ai --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

更多英语知识，请关注微信公众号:　VOA英语每日一听Matt: So, Rachel, where are you from?Rachel: I'm from Scotland.Matt: Okay, Okay. Scotland like, what's the biggest city in Scotland would you say?Rachel: The capitol city is Edinburgh but the biggest city, size-wise and population-wsseis Glasgow.Matt: Okay and you lived in ...? Did you live in one of those two cities?Rachel: My grandparents lived in Edinburgh and I lived in Glasgow for quite awhile at university.Matt: Okay. I'm under the impression that there's a lot of rain in that area. Is that true or?Rachel: Yeah, pretty much.Matt: Yeah, we both come from rainy climates.Rachel: Yeah, the West Coast of Scotland gets more rain that the east coast, so it's Glasgow that gets more rain than Edinburgh but Edinburgh has this very bitter cold wind, and it's really chilly.Matt: All year round or just in the winter?Rachel: No, pretty much all year round. Yeah.Matt: Interesting. Tell me about Glasgow. What kind of city is it?Rachel: Glasgow? When I was a kid was actually sort of very rundown[詳細報告], and it used to be famous for boat building and industry. But yeah, when I was a kid, I mean it was famous for being a very rough town and lots of unemployment. Lots of social problems, and then it just went through a kind of renaissance[復興] and got lots of money from the European Union and then the town just totally transformed. When I go back it's so different.Matt: How is it different? Is it like more of a center for art than it was? Or is it ...? Like what's different?Rachel: It did become a city of culture. And I think that reflects the sort of liveliness of the people of Glasgow. Like they're just, they have such a good sense of humor. They're very friendly. Quite different from Edinburgh where they're much more reserved I think.Matt: People are a little uptight.Rachel: Yes, yes, so .. not uptight but they're not so friendly as Glaswegians.Matt: Glaswegians!Rachel: Yes.

更多英语知识，请关注微信公众号:　VOA英语每日一听Matt: So, Rachel, where are you from?Rachel: I'm from Scotland.Matt: Okay, Okay. Scotland like, what's the biggest city in Scotland would you say?Rachel: The capitol city is Edinburgh but the biggest city, size-wise and population-wsseis Glasgow.Matt: Okay and you lived in ...? Did you live in one of those two cities?Rachel: My grandparents lived in Edinburgh and I lived in Glasgow for quite awhile at university.Matt: Okay. I'm under the impression that there's a lot of rain in that area. Is that true or?Rachel: Yeah, pretty much.Matt: Yeah, we both come from rainy climates.Rachel: Yeah, the West Coast of Scotland gets more rain that the east coast, so it's Glasgow that gets more rain than Edinburgh but Edinburgh has this very bitter cold wind, and it's really chilly.Matt: All year round or just in the winter?Rachel: No, pretty much all year round. Yeah.Matt: Interesting. Tell me about Glasgow. What kind of city is it?Rachel: Glasgow? When I was a kid was actually sort of very rundown[詳細報告], and it used to be famous for boat building and industry. But yeah, when I was a kid, I mean it was famous for being a very rough town and lots of unemployment. Lots of social problems, and then it just went through a kind of renaissance[復興] and got lots of money from the European Union and then the town just totally transformed. When I go back it's so different.Matt: How is it different? Is it like more of a center for art than it was? Or is it ...? Like what's different?Rachel: It did become a city of culture. And I think that reflects the sort of liveliness of the people of Glasgow. Like they're just, they have such a good sense of humor. They're very friendly. Quite different from Edinburgh where they're much more reserved I think.Matt: People are a little uptight.Rachel: Yes, yes, so .. not uptight but they're not so friendly as Glaswegians.Matt: Glaswegians!Rachel: Yes.

Good morning everybody! I was on with Ken and Matt. We talked about StarTrek and then we got into Tech and what is going on with our Cable Modems.  Then we discussed the big vulnerability with Firefox and why you must update it NOW! Also Smishing. So here we go with Ken and Matt. Microsoft is out with some Critical updates that must be applied.    These and more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: One of the most significant vulnerabilities in Windows ever was disposed at noon yesterday by the NSA. Craig Good morning, everybody. Craig Peterson, here. I had a great little chat this morning with Ken and Matt about some of the things that are affecting us right now security-wise, including your cable modem, it is probably vulnerable. I gave some tips on what to do as I always try to do. We had a little bit of fun teasing each other about William Shatner. So here we go. Ken All right, we're back at 738 on the WGAN morning news with Ken and Matt. Happy Wednesday to you and Wednesdays at 738 means Craig Peterson joins us now, Craig. Craig Peterson Hey, good morning. Why would you guys insult my favorite over actor this morning? Matt Vince Vaughn Ken Are you referring to are you must be referring to Shattner Craig Yeah, I call him Bill. Yeah. Matt I'm sorry, but I believe the mystic name took us here because I have, for one, complimented his acting in the Wrath of Khan. I did not, yes I did in Star Trek Five. Although I mean, I liked Return Home. That's the fourth one with a little nuclear Wessels. Craig I don't know if you guys know it, but in upstate New York, a guy who is an Elvis impersonator, I forget his name. He bought all of these old Desi-Lu sets, and he rebuilt all the original sets from Star Trek, the whole thing. They examined the footage to see what they looked like, as some of the sets were destroyed or lost. But the entire thing is there, and I went on a tour. I've been there twice. They have these guided tours of the sets, and they talk about things, but it is the entire set. They reuse Kirk's tricorders for this, that and the other thing. There is cork running up and down the hallways. Now when I look at that original series, I tend to notice things like they run some of the footage backward, and that is because the entire enterprise, you know, where he's running between decks and up and down is maybe 50-75 feet long. There's one core door. And so you'll see, the names on some of the doorways are backward because they reversed it to make it look like he was running in a circle around the deck. Ken That is a great deal of detail that you're paying attention to Craig. Craig It is Yeah. I did notice that I watched Star Trek six a little while ago, and they used the warp core from Star Trek The Next Generation. Matt Anyway. While this is quite interesting, you are here to talk about tech topics, not Star Trek topics. So well kind of Craig So well kind of a lot of techs. I mean, let's face it Star Trek introduced a lot of tech issues. For example, the Motorola flip phone, right Matt from Motorola. Exactly right. Directly inspired. Yes. Dave. That's how we got came from going to the moon. So let's talk about technology, shall we? Many people use Firefox today. Now be worried about using Firefox? Craig You know, we've got a few major government warnings out right now. The biggest one is Microsoft Windows. Huge, huge, huge, one of the most significant vulnerabilities in Windows ever was disclosed at noon yesterday by the NSA. And so trick number one, although there's no evidence it's being used in the wild right now. What Microsoft There is a specific type of encryption that you can use in Windows. If you present Windows as an application saying, here's a file encrypted for me or decrypted for me, there is no validation at all of the key involved, it is a huge security problem. Now, why not something massive here, the difference between the Trump administration and prior administrations, and that is that previously, the NSA would find out about this and use it against people. They would use it against foreign governments, etc., who are using Windows and they'd say, Isn't this great? We have a way into computers, or we have a way to break encryption or to do whatever we want to make significant differences. Now, the NSA is telling us about some of these substantial security vulnerabilities. So tip one this morning patch Windows early and often patch it right now. Number two, we've also got the government warning. And this is Homeland Security about Firefox. Firefox is one of my favorite browsers. It is one of these privacy browsers made by Mozilla. It's very, very good, mainly if you are a Facebook user, because it has some special lockdown features and when it comes to Facebook. Still, Firefox also has critical security warning out, so make sure that gets updated with Firefox. All you have to do is exit Firefox started up again. And it will go ahead and patch itself all automatically but a vast and critical security warning for Firefox. Matt All right, we're talking to Craig Peterson, our tech guru. He joins us for our tech update on what's happening in tech around the world. Now, Craig, I must admit, I've never heard of the word smishing. Could you educate me a little bit about it? Exactly what are some examples of this that people should understand? I guess as they continue to run around paranoid about all things in the world coming to get them. Craig It's like Australia, right? Everything's trying to kill you. Exactly. The Outback. Exactly. So here's what submission is you you've known what fishing is P-H-I-S-h-I-N-G where bad guys are trying to trick you into doing something. Some of the earliest examples of phishing is the Nigerian scams, where a poor Nigerian prince needed your help? Well, they have continued to evolve. And smishing is fishing on mobile devices when we're talking about texting messages. SMS messages, that's where it gets the name smishing. Right now, we're seeing an increase in messages being sent that looked like they are from a bank. In particular, right now, the US Bank is the biggest at a smishing message. I don't even know I should have looked this up if there is a bank called US Bank, but they're they come through is urgent messages. They pretend they are your bank or Amex or Visa or MasterCard. And they have a link that you can, and you can click on. So, for example, American Express dash message.com, which is not a legitimate domain. What will happen is once you get reported, and you can report almost anything to their email addresses. It is typically abuse at American Express, for instance, or abuse at the bank name. You can notify them once reported and the banks, etc. Find out about them. These sites like American Express dash message dot com get shut down. But be very careful nowadays, you unless the text is coming from me, click on mine, right. But unless a text is from someone you really know and trust, be careful, because they are sending out the text messages and you want to pry this is from your bank. And we're going to see a lot of this more and more. The new head of the FCC has been working very closely with the various telephone companies to try and put an end to this. However, because of the design of the systems, and that is without security in mind, it's going to take a while before they're ever going to be able to stop all of this. was speaking to Craig Pixar Ken We are speaking to Craig Peterson, our tech guru. He joins us every Wednesday, 738. You can also catch him on WGAN on Saturday at 1 pm. What is this thing about cable modems and the attacks on them? I would think not true. One would be right. I would think so. Matt You would, right because of those cable modems? Craig Yeah, that's what I was. Yeah, it's a cable company, you might have the phone company depending on where you live providing your internet. And what's been happening historically, initially, we had cable modems, and we just hooked the cable modem up directly to a little switcher or a hub in our house right and used the internet from there. And then they got fancier, and the cable modem started having built into them little firewalls. They did this actually for the benefit of the cable companies because we're we are still running out of internet addresses. So they did a little trick called Nadeem gets kind of complicated, but right now, there are over 200 million affected modems over in Europe alone. There are estimated to be at least that many here in the United States. Here's the big problem. If you're using these cable modem firewalls in your homes, a lot of them are not up to date. Some of the ones that you bought yourself and those supplied by cable companies with names like Sagemcom, Netgear, Technicolor, and Compal models shipping to broadband subscribers, those are just some of the infected ones. We've got to be careful with all our equipment, just like we mentioned this morning, right already, we've got the NSA warning us about Windows and Firefox. It has issues our cable modems do too. So if you own your end device there, make sure it stays patched up. It's up to date. Don't buy the $80 router firewalls, and you have to spend at least 200 nowadays, to get a router firewall cable modem for your home. That is going to auto-update. However, we have pay attention to this as they are gaining direct access to our security cameras, our computers, all of our Internet of Things devices, in our homes, in our small businesses. So my general advice is to go and buy a suitable cable modem yourself put it in. And when I say I didn't have a modem, my main one that is has a built-in firewall and is going to update it shelf automatically for at least a few years. So that means get them from some of the more prominent manufacturers that are out there. And if you're interested, you can just email me at Craig Peterson calm. I'll send you a little list of the current ones out there that I've been recommending people just drop an email to me at Craig Peterson calm. Be glad to let you know. Matt All right, ladies, gentlemen, that is Craig Peterson. He's our tech guru. He joins us at this time every single Wednesday, and this Wednesday is, of course. I appreciate it as always, Craig, and we'll talk again next week. Craig Gentlemen, take care. Bye. Thanks a lot. All right. Craig 12:05 Hey everybody, I'm going to be sending out an email because I am working on a fantastic course right now. I would love your input. I want to make sure I cover everything. It is going to be the definitive course, and I am sure of it when it comes to protecting your computers. So keep an eye out for the email that's going to bet coming. If you're an office manager, if you're someone who has the responsibility of securing computers in a small company, this is for you. So keep an eye out. I'm more excited about this than anything I've done before. I've done these DIY or Do It Yourself cybersecurity courses before and several other courses. However, this is the course of courses when it comes to securing your computer but also administering your computers. I'm going to get some bonuses because I'm working on it thinking, you know, what else can I do that's going to help them understand the depth of maybe how far they need to go. There's a couple of times where I was doing this saying, and you know what they need to understand this too. So putting all of that in, this is going to be amazing. But I do want to make sure I'm covering everything you guys want to have included. So I don't hear I'm rambling on, but keep an eye on your email, because I'm going to be sending something out probably early next week about this as we're finishing up these modules, and then we'll use your input to polish it up. So thanks again, everybody, and we'll be back this weekend. Bye-bye. Transcribed by https://otter.ai --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

Craig is in the WGAN Morning News with Ken and Matt. This morning,  we touched on a whole bunch of topics in the news. We discussed whether we should trust Google.  We talked about Autonomous vehicles and the societal implications and I talked about two-factor authentication and how you can protect yourself from sim-jacking. These and more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Related Articles: You Need Two-Factor Authentication Even If Google Screwed It Up?   Autonomous Cars — Are they ready for Prime Time? Why Are We Still Trusting Google?    --- Transcript: Below is a rush transcript of this segment, it might contain errors. Airing date: 06/12/2019 Can You Trust Google?, Security Summer, Autonomous Cars, Two-Factor Authentication --- Craig Good morning, everybody. Craig Peterson here. I heard "Big Papi" took his first steps in the hospital today. So, that's good. It brings back thoughts of everyone that has family and friends in the hospital that aren't celebrities and people that are injured. My thoughts and prayers go out to everybody every day. It's just a reminder of how fragile things can be in this life. This morning I was on with our friends Ken and Matt up at WGAN. And as usual, we spoke about a few different things. We had quite a little conversation about trusting Google, should you trust them? Can you trust them? There was a surprising revelation that came out, in fact, just last week about them, and what they've been doing, during the previous 14 years, a significant security problem. We had a chat about two-factor authentication, and I gave them workaround, a way to make it safe, even if you have to use text messages SMS for two-factor authentication because that's not secure. But there is a reliable way to do it. We talked about a little bit more of course about autonomous cars which are all in the news again, and what's the safety factor there? How far away are we? I took a couple of different angles than I made with Jim Polito on that discussion today, as well. So here we go. Also, don't forget, we've got our security summer, starting up in July, I will start sending out some emails next week, things have been crazy around here. As you can imagine, with all of the companies now getting hacked, and the losing money coming to me, and you know, everyone in the security business, which, of course, is way understaffed. And shout out to those of you who are trying to get into security, I got another email this last week from someone that was starting into a security career, and he's in his 50s. So there's something to be learned there, I want to encourage everybody. Remember the adage, "You can teach an old dog new tricks." It's a terrible saying. But you can learn a lot of this stuff, you really can. And there's a lot of people out there who have been trying to convince you that you can't do that, really all you need is their little bit of anti-virus software, or whatever it is, you know, they're selling that to you. Because that's all, they have. That's all they know. Well, they're not doing you any favors. They are trying to mess with you. You can learn this stuff. That's what the security summer going to be about this year, and I'm going to be teaching this some free classes. You know, I get paid for doing this too. And if you want more in depth, then you're probably going to want to sign up for one of my courses. But I want to get this information to everybody. Because if you know me well enough, you know, I got hacked. That was 30 years ago, about now, a long time ago. And it scared the daylights out of me. And I started to learn about this and trying to figure it out. It's taken me years, decades, to get to the point where I'm at now. And I am excited to share a lot of this with you. Just watch for my security summer. If you want to find out more, email me at Craig Peterson dot com, ask any questions that you might have. And I'll make sure you know, when I'm starting this whole little program up, because I want you to be aware of all of the major points here, right, I'm not trying to turn into security experts, that takes quite a bit of work. However, I do want you to be familiar with all of the problems. All the talk about hacks that have happened, how it happened, what should have been done by those companies give you an idea, but as well as what you can do to protect yourself a few tips on how to protect yourself, it's going to be kind of a busy summer. And if you sign up, and you'll be able to get a notification as to when these little courses are going to happen. And I'm going to leave them up for about a week or so you know because it does get stale. And I do need to revisit them. I don't want want to put them up blankly for the world to see forever. So keep an eye out. Email me at Craig Peterson dot com, and now we'll go to Ken and Matt. I want to encourage you guys, and you can learn this. There are the people that just been messing with you. You know the bottom line. Ken Craig Peterson, our tech guru joins us at 738 every Wednesday, and this is 738 on a Wednesday, which means you're talking to Craig Peterson. Craig. Welcome to the program, sir. Craig Hey, good morning. It is a Wednesday but is it every Wednesday? Today? Ken That's a good point. And you know what it is a lie in and of itself because I believe we did not talk to you last Wednesday. So it's most Wednesdays. Craig That's true. Yeah, I took a bit of vacation. I'm a motorcycle guy. And I have a motorcycle that is 32 years old. It's a 1987 BMW with 143,000 miles on it now. The only thing I had to do is replace the rear wheel on that bike. It's just been a phenomenal bike. So, I went up to like George in New York, and we rode around with some buddies for a week. And it was just fantastic. Ken Well, good. But that doesn't mean tech news stops. I hopped on your website, Craig Peterson dot com. To see what kind of top stories you had there and you have one topic here. Why are we still trusting Google? Can you answer that? Matt Great question. Well, they did say early in Google's history that they that their whole operating philosophy was Don't be evil, right. Are they evil? Now? Did you notice they took that off of their website? Right? Craig Yeah, exactly. I don't know why we're still trusting some of these different companies out there. They are selling all kinds of information about us. And, you know, that's not necessarily a bad thing when you get right down to it. Because, frankly, do you want to see car commercials all the time? Or would you rather see a car commercial when you are looking to buy a car, right? And, again, goes back, Matt, to what you've said many times, and that is if you're not paying for something, you might want to consider that you're the product and not the customer. And they have been doing all kinds of things. We're selling our data. But the other big problem that came out very recently, within the last couple of weeks is that in fact, Google has been storing our usernames and passwords for people that were using, basically their G Suite services. But it's been out there for 14 years in the clear. They're pretty good about security, although Android itself isn't the best out there. But now their G Suite customers are a little upset because of what's been out there. I was talking just yesterday with an employee who had been working at a company that was collecting personal information. They were collecting home addresses, phone numbers, and they were taking donations and were selling them. It was a great little company doing just all kinds of super things to raise funds for some good charitable organizations. It turns out they were using Google Forms to collect all this personal information about donors. You know, come on, guys, we cannot trust Google, we're using more and more of these online websites, software as a service. Think about Google Sheets, for instance, as well as Google Forms. And we're putting data in there that may end up getting exposed. We should not be doing that. Think twice about it. In our profession, we refer to this as shadow IT or shadow information technology. Historically, we had these big rooms, these big glass rooms with all of the computers in them. And we had true professionals that were running them, and making sure data was being kept safe, and information was not being stolen and leaked out. Now we've got the marketing department going out and creating contracts with companies that have online services, we have the same thing happening with sales and manufacturing and distribution and our purchasing managers are our data is not safe, and it's never been less secure. So be careful what you're putting out there, what you're given to Google what you're given to these other companies because frankly, it's a real problem. Matt Craig Peterson, our tech guru, joins us, most Wednesdays at this time to talk about the world of technology. And today is one of those days, Craig, while you're talking, I'm looking at a story on CBS This Morning about Uber's secret self-driving test facility for their self-driving autonomous cars. I know you had a story also about whether or not autonomous vehicles are ready for prime time. And I think it does beg the question, how prepared for prime time are these things? I know, it's a conversation I've had several times, and it seems like the older the person I'm talking to the more it freaks them out that there's no driver behind the wheel. I think it freaks everybody out. It just freaks out, you know, people in their 50s, 60s, and 70s a lot more than it does everybody else. But statistics, you know, are being what they are, you know, often they can be safer, then human behind the wheel. So what do you think? I mean, are they close to ready to take over the roads? Craig Well, I really like I mentioned this yesterday. I liked this story that came out in the Wall Street Journal a couple of weeks ago. And it said that autonomous vehicles, these self-driving cars are 90% ready and all we have left is 90% to go. In other words, yeah, there's a lot of things that look like we're ready to go and it might be just a few more years, and we'll have autonomous vehicles. In reality, it's probably going to be quite a while yet. And you talk about you know, older guys like Ken and myself who are over 30. And we're looking at some of these things. And we're concerned because we've seen failures before. Do you remember Cadillac v 864? Matt Back then, I wasn't much of a car person. Ken I did have a Mustang in 1960. Matt Do you remember the Corvair? Unsafe at any speed? Craig I do, and you know, Ralph Nader thing, we still have Nader dots on our tires. But that was an example back in the early 80s of Cadillac trying to make cars more efficient, the engines more efficient, and they had a V-8 engine. And what would happen is if you got onto the highway and you started driving, of course, at highway speeds, you're going down the road, you don't need as much horsepower to keep a vehicle going at a pace as you need to get the car starting at that speed. So they said okay, well, we're going to have the system that automatically shut down cylinders. So you'd be a V-8, and you'd be just roaring up and you getting on the highway and you're often running. Then it would cut back to six cylinders, even four cylinders. The concept was wonderful. But what ended up happening is that engine would say, as you're at a stop sign, oh my I need more horsepower, counteract the braking. Of course, They were not thinking about the brakes very well at the time. And then the car would lunge into the intersection so that you could get t-boned. Fast forward not very many years, and we had the Toyota with a sudden acceleration problem. That turned out to be a software error, where much the same thing was happening. A car would jump into the intersection. We're not going to get into all of the details behind it all. But I think with age comes from experience. And we've had some horrible experiences over the years with vehicles and some of this newer technology. So Matt, to answer your question, a lot is going on the autonomous vehicle space. In some cases, the cars are much, much safer, you look at millions of miles driven, compare human drivers to these autonomous vehicles, and the autonomous vehicles almost always win. But we also now have prejudices against the self-driving cars, social warriors are, you know, get on your horses here. Because there are people who when there's an autonomous vehicle on the road, or they think it's a ton of mess, they behave differently. Now they've been tested have been run, I don't know if you've seen any of these pictures with autonomous vehicles, where they took the driver's seat, and they made it quite a bit deeper, think of thicker padding on that seat. And they hid a driver inside the driver's position. You could not see them unless you looked exceptionally close. You could not see that there was a driver in the vehicle. Then the driver just drove around, caught down and of course, the cameras everywhere so they could see what the people's reactions were. People were going out of their way to mess with the car. They pedestrians were jumping in front of it. Vehicles were cutting it off, slamming on their brakes, doing everything they could to make it so that autonomous vehicle would get involved in an accident. I don't know. Maybe they're just trying to see what it would do. Of course, it wasn't an autonomous vehicle. There's a human driver in there. We, as a society, as people, are not ready for these yet. And frankly, I think the Wall Street Journal's right - We're 90% of the way there. And honestly, we have 90% of the way to go. Because there are so many things, we haven't even considered yet. Ken When he joins us, most Wednesdays at 738, to fill us in on tech news. We at the radio station. I don't want to be critical of our radio station. However, they started this two-factor authentication. So every time I get some on my email, they have to send me a text message with a code. I think this is a royal pain in the butt. I want you to tell me they shouldn't do that. Craig Okay, can they not do that. Ken Thanks so much. Thank you for joining us today. Craig I will leave it at that. Yeah, here's what's going to, first of all, there's a big problem with the way they're doing it. That is that there is something called SIMjacking or hijacking of your SIM card. So if they're sending you a text, that is very dangerous. What's been happening is that if you are a target, now they're not doing this in a broad fishing attempt. If you can are a target, and the criminals know they want to go after you, they can now take over your cell phone, and they will get the text. So it doesn't do a whole lot of good from that aspect. We use something called DUO. D-U-O, which is fantastic. For two factor authentication, we use something called Yubi keys, which are very good as well. If your company's requiring you to us a text message for authentication, there is a relatively safe way of doing it. And that is you can use something like Google Voice, assuming your Google account has not been hacked, right. But Google Voice, where there is no SIM card, there is no cell phone that SIM card to hijack. If you use this and it is what I do for places that have to have a text message sent for two-factor authentication. So if they have to send you a text message, it goes to Google Voice. I have my own little phone company, and I use that as well. That way the text message will come in via an app to your phone, you can check the app, and now you're reasonably safe. But yeah, in this day and age, you know two-factor authentication is something that that does make sense. We do have to draw a line, and that one does it make the most sense. I'd like it to authenticate you at most every four hours or once a day, particularly for emails, if you have to do it every time. It gets a little bit old, pretty darn fast. But you know it's the reality of today's world. Matt Craig Peterson, our tech guru, he joins us at this time every Wednesday to find out exactly what's happening in the world of technology. Craig, we only have a couple of minutes left. So lastly, I will ask you whether or not you judge everyone on social media? Are you part of the mob that rules everyone? Craig Oh man. I am not. I don't jump on anybody's back. I just had that happen to me with a significant hacking group. As you know, I run the national webinars for the FBI Infragard program. I'm pretty visible out there in the security world, right. I do lots of radio interviews and TV and stuff. I posted an article on my website and got jumped on by a small mob out there. We've got to be careful remember it's so easy to say something negative online. Our kids are getting bullied every day. Bullying seems to be quite a habit nowadays. I don't know what happened to free speech. We have these militant people out there these fascist like the Antifas. Total fascist don't want to hear what you have to say. And these internet mobs have become a real thing and a very negative thing. From my viewpoint. Anyways. Ken Good news as our tech guru joins us most Wednesdays at 738. Thank you, Mr. Peterson. We will talk to you next Wednesday. Craig Take care. Matt All right. Thanks a lot, Craig. We appreciate it.   --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553  

Welcome to the next installment in the Mobile Musings series here on Beyond Your Past Radio. Each episode is recorded while out walking or driving, with nothing more than a mobile phone. You'll hear my thoughts on life, mental health, making a difference in the world and in the lives of others. So how can we potentially see ourselves, and the world, in a different way? Do we even need to, and if so, why? What kind of difference can it make in our daily life; personal, professional, relationships, everywhere?In this episode, I'm out doing some walking, did ya notice the walking intro too? :) Thinking about how much of a difference it can make if we decide that maybe, just maybe, we can choose to approach our day, or a specific situation, in a new way?Think about how you wake up each day, what is your mindset as you get ready to head out to work? What's going through your mind as you approach that lunch date with a friend? How much do you dread calling back that person you've been avoiding because you're afraid of what they'll say or ask you to do?What if you could take a chance, a calculated risk, and ask youself what it might be like to see that situation differently? How might that look to you?Give this episode a listen as I talk about it on the podcast!Please do let us know your thoughts on this raw, simple format which will begin being released every Thursday. Hit us up anytime at https://beyondyourpastradio.com/contact-us -MattAll conversation and information exchanged during participation on the Beyond Your Past Podcast, on BeyondYourPast.com, and BeyondYourPastRadio.com is intended for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing on these podcasts or posted on the above-mentioned websites are supplements for or supersedes the relationship and direction of your medical or mental health providers.Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/sPH8pMZ)

Welcome to the return of Mobile Musings! A short weekly podcast sponsored by Beyond Your Past Radio and Beyond Your Past. Each episode is recorded while out walking or driving, with nothing more than a mobile phone. You'll hear my thoughts on life, mental health, making a difference in the world and in the lives of others. This was a segment that originally started a couple of years ago but we ended up getting away from it for no other reason than, well we just did. I really enjoyed recording these and now seems like a great time to bring them back. So welcome back to Mobile Musings, the Reactivation..or the Return..or well, you get the idea. In this episode, I share alittle bit about the back story and also the reason why I decided to bring this format back to be a companion to our full-length episodes which get released every Monday. I share about the importance of knowing your limits, being able to pivot and adjust, and not trying your self-worth to the outcome of a project, or strategy change. I also share why burnout in any area of life is real, and why these episodes will help alleviate that concern. Plus, there's nothing wrong with having a little fun with a podcast right? You'll see what I mean when you listen, and if you enjoy them you'll notice other cool quirks and fun stuff each time that hopefully will bring a smile to your face. Please do let us know your thoughts on this raw, simple format which will begin being released every Thursday. Hit us up anytime at https://beyondyourpastradio.com/contact-us -MattAll conversation and information exchanged during participation on the Beyond Your Past Podcast, on BeyondYourPast.com, and BeyondYourPastRadio.com is intended for educational and informational purposes only. Nothing on these podcasts or posted on the above-mentioned websites are supplements for or supersedes the relationship and direction of your medical or mental health providers.Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/sPH8pMZ)

An interview with Alison Gianotto / Snipe, creator of Snipe IT Snipe.net Snipe-IT @snipeyhead Editing sponsored by Larajobs Transcription sponsored by GoTranscript.com [music] Matt: All right, cool. All right. Welcome back to the latest episode of Laravel Podcast. It's been a little bit of a break for those of you who tune in to every new episode, but I've got another great interview here. As with every single one, I'm interested and excited to introduce someone to you. Some of you have heard of before, a lot of you might not know that she actually works in Laravel. Either way, it's going to be great. This is Snipe. Although in my head, you have been Snipeyhead because I feel that's been your Twitter name for a while. Real name, Alison Gianotto, but I'm probably just going to end up calling you Snipe for rest of this call. Before I go in asking you questions, the first thing I want to do is just I always ask somebody, if you meet somebody in the grocery store who you know isn't technical at all, and they ask you, "What do you do?" What's the first way you answer that question? Snipe: I say I work with computers. Matt: Right, and then if they say, "My cousin works with computers and whatever." Where do you go from there? Snipe: Well, it depends on their answer. If they say, "Do you fix computers?" I'm like, "Not exactly." If they say, "Really? What type of computer work do you do?" I say, "Well, I'm a programmer." They're like, "So you make games?" "Well, not exactly." If they say something like, "Mobile apps or web? What languages?" Then I'm like, "Okay, now I can actually have a conversation." I don't do it to be disrespectful to the person asking. It's just confusing to them, and so I like to keep it bite-sized enough that no one gets confused. Matt: If you talk to a grandma in a store who doesn't have much exposure with computers, and you say, "Well, I work in InfoSec with blah-blah-blah." Then she's going to go, "Huh?" I totally hear you. If somebody does ask and they say, "You know what? I actually work in Rails," or, "I know what a framework is." How do you answer someone when they are more technical? Let's say, somebody-- You understand that this person is going to get all the names that you drop. Where do you go from there? How do you tell someone about what you do? Snipe: I actually usually say that I run a software company. I say, "I run a small software company that basically works on open source software." Usually, they look at me like, "How do you--" Matt: How do you make money? Snipe: Literally makes no sense. [laughter] Matt: Which is where we're going to go. Let's actually go there. Snipe-IT, it's a company that has an open source product. I'm guessing that you make your money by paid support plans and hosting plans. Right? Then you also have the whole thing available for free in open source? Snipe: That's correct. Yes. Matt: Could you give us a little pitch for anybody who doesn't know what Snipe-IT is, and what it does, and who it's for? Snipe: I'm so bad at this. I'm the worst salesperson ever. Matt: Well, I'm helping you grow. [laughter] Matt: Thirty seconds or less. Snipe: If you have any kind of a company and you buy assets like laptops, or desktops, or monitors, you need to keep track of them and you know who has what, what software is installed on what. Then usually I'm like, "I've got this nailed. I've got this nailed." Then I end up saying, "It's not a very sexy project, but people need it." [chuckles] Matt: Right, right, right. You have to justify yourself in your sales. Snipe: I know it. I really do. I'm really the worst at it. People get really excited. We're going to DEF CON this year like we usually do. I'm actually bringing my whole crew. Matt: Cool. Snipe: Because I really want them to be able to experience the way people react when they realize that we are Snipe-IT because they just get so excited. I've had people run across the conference floor to give me a hug that I've never met. Matt: Wow. Snipe: It's really cool. There was another time I was talking to, I think, YTCracker on the conference floor. He introduces me to one of his friends. He's like, "Yes, she's got a IT asset management software." He's like, "Really? I just heard about one of those. That was really great." I know exactly where this is going. I'm watching him look at his phone. He's like, "Yes, I just heard about it. It's really amazing. I think through your competition." I'm just sitting there smirking and I'm like, "Okay." Totally, I know exactly where this is going, but I let him spend five minutes looking it up on his phone. He's like, "It's called Snipe It?" I just look at him like, "Hi, I'm Snipe." [laughter] Snipe: It was actually wonderful. Matt: It's one of the benefits not just of having the company, but actually naming it after yourself. You're like, "No. I'm actually the Snipe. That's me." Snipe: I'm excited to bring my crew out to DEF CON this year so they can really get to experience that first hand. Because like anything else in open source and in company support in general, a lot of times, you only hear the negative stuff. You hear about when something is broken or when something doesn't work exactly the way they want it to work. To actually get just random people coming up-- I'm getting us swag. I'm getting us t-shirts printed out. I'm super excited. Matt: I love it. There's nothing like having the opportunity to see the people who love what you're doing to really motivate you to go back and do it again. I hear that, for sure. Snipe: Definitely. Open source can be really tough with that because for the most part, the only thing that you're hearing is, "It doesn't work," or, "Why doesn't it do it do this thing?" Or people telling you how they think your software should work. To just get basically unbridled love, it really recharges me. It makes me want to work on a project even harder. Matt: Plus, the phrase unbridled love is just fantastic. [laughter] Matt: It should be in our lexicon more often. Snipe: I agree. Matt: It's asset management software. I'm imagining I've got a 500-person company, and every single person gets issued a laptop within certain specs. After it's a certain amount of time old, then it gets replaced. We're going to make sure they have the latest build of whatever, Windows and the latest security patches, and that kind of stuff. It's at the point where you don't have-- My company has, I think, 17 people right now. There is just a spreadsheet somewhere. This is when you get to the point where a spreadsheet is really missing people. People aren't getting their upgrades. People don't have security updates. My guess was the reason there was InfoSec involved in this at DEF CON is because security updates is a big piece of why that's the case. Did I assume right? Could you tell us a little bit more about how InfoSec and security are related to what you're doing here? Snipe: You're kind of right. We don't currently have a network agent, so we don't have anything that listens on the wire. We do have a JSON REST API, though. Basically, we're now working with folks like Jira, Atlassian, and we're going to be working with a JaMP API to try and basically make that stuff easier. I feel like its out of scope for us to try and build another networking agent, but we have an API. If we can just build those bridges, then it just makes it a little bit easier. Ultimately, in terms of security, the real reason why I think people in InfoSec appreciate this tool, especially given the fact that we don't have-- And some people in InfoSec actually like the fact that we don't have a monitoring agent because that actually becomes a separate problem in and of itself. Let me give you a backstory on why I created this in the first place. Matt: Please do. Snipe: Maybe that'll help explain a little bit more. I was the CTO of an ad agency in New York City. We had grown from-- I think I was employee number 12, and we were now at 60 something people. We were using a Google Sheet shared between three IT people, some of which were not necessarily the most diligent- [laughter] Matt: Sure. Snipe: -about keeping things up to date. Basically, when you've got a single point of truth that is no longer a single point of truth, it becomes a bit of a hellish nightmare. Additionally, if you're repurposing-- Because it's an ad agency, so you have a lot of turnover. You don't have any history on any particular asset if this asset is actually bad. If the hard drive on this is actually just bad and should be replaced. If this is bad hardware, then we should consider just unsetting it, and getting a brand new box, whatever. We had to move offices. We were moving our main office and also our data center. Of course, when you're trying to move a 60-person company, and servers, and everything else, the very first thing that you have to do is to know what you have. That was an enlightening experience. It basically turned out that we had about $10,000 worth of hardware that we just didn't know where it was anymore. Matt: Wow. Snipe: People got fired. This is basically before I was a CTO and before I had set up the exiting process. People had been fired or had quit and just taken their laptops with them. That's got company data on it. That was a huge, huge issue for us. I was like, "Okay, we need something that we can integrate into our exit strategy or exit process to make sure that we're reclaiming back all of the data that--" Because some of those stuff is client data. It's actually really sensitive from a corporate perspective. Also, sometimes it's customer data. It was really important to have a way to handle that a bit better. That's it. The asset part is the most important part of that software. We do have support for licenses where the cloud offering portion of that is not as fully developed. We're going to be building in a services section soon. That will describe, for example, if you had Snipe-IT as a vendor, where would we fit in this ecosystem for our customers? We don't actually have a good answer for that. We're going to be building out a services section that lets you know how much money you're paying every month, how many seats you have. Matt: That's great. That would cover not just global stuff, but also individual subscriptions like Adobe and PHP-- Snipe: Sure, sure. Matt: Cool. That's awesome. Snipe: Licenses are really hard. They're hard because you can have-- One of our customers actually has a hundred thousand licenses. Matt: Oh, my Lord. Snipe: Because you've got this notion of a software license and then a bunch of different seats. There are some licenses that have one seat, and only one seat they only ever will. Then there are ones that have tens of thousands. For example, Microsoft Suite. If you have a large company, you're going to have a lot of those licenses. One of the things I care really deeply about in Snipe-IT, and I think one of the reasons why we've been successful in this really saturated marketplace, because it is a really saturated marketplace, is that I care a lot about the users' experience. I know, for example, that our licenses section, the UI on that, the UX on that is not as optimized as it could be. That will be the next thing that we're really tackling is because it is a popular section. It's one that because of the nature of the variability of licenses, makes that a really tricky UX problem to solve. That's one of the things that I love about this work is getting to solve those kinds of problems. Matt: You're just starting to make me interested in this which means you're doing your job of the sales pitch. You said you got something you're super comfortable with. Snipe: [laughs] Matt: I always struggle-- Somebody made a joke and they said something like, "It's a drinking game for how many times Matt says 'I could talk about this for hours' during a podcast." Snipe: I did see that, yes. Matt: We're there already. [laughter] Matt: I want to step back from Snipe-IT just a little bit. Snipe It, I want to call it Snipe It now that you said that. Snipe: Please don't call it that. [laughs] Matt: I won't, I promise. Think a little bit about what got you to here, and what got you to the point where you're a name and an online persona. I saw you had some interactions with @SwiftOnSecurity the other day. Everyone got all excited seeing the two of you interacting. What was the story? I want to eventually go back to when you got into computers in the first place. First, what was the story of the process of you going from just any other person on the Internet, on Twitter, on GitHub, or whatever to being a persona that is relatively well-known across multiple communities? Snipe: I can't really answer that for you because I don't really understand it myself. Other than lots of poop jokes-- Matt: It's the best. Snipe: Yes. [chuckles] I think, probably, I've been on Twitter for a while. Also, I was on IRC for a long time. I think I'm still an op in the ##php channel on Freenode, although I don't visit there as often as I used to. I was really involved in that as I was learning PHP, and as I was helping other people learn PHP. I don't know. I've always been a mouthy broad, and I think that's probably worked because whether you like me or not, you remember me. [laughs] Matt: Yes, for sure. Snipe: I'm doing my very best to not swear on your podcast, by the way. I've caught myself at least five times that I'm like, "No, no, no." [laughs] Matt: If it happens, it happens but I appreciate it. Snipe: I'm doing my very best. I'm at a conference-- Matt: Broad was a good one, yes. All right, exactly. Snipe: Yes, I know. Yes, exactly. I was like, "B-b-b-broad." Matt: [laughs] Snipe: Which is an offensive term in and of itself, but it's still- Matt: We toned it down a little. Snipe: -better than the alternative, I think. [laughter] Matt: I love it. Snipe: I'm trying my best here, Matt. Matt: I appreciate it very much. Was it in the world of PHP? First of all, I heard longevity. I've been here for a while. That's always a big win. Poop jokes, that's also obviously big win. Give the people what they want. Snipe: I don't know if I can say dick jokes on your podcast. Matt: Well, you did. There we are. Snipe: Dick jokes are definitely big part of my repertoire. [laughs] Matt: Yes, I know. Being an interesting person, having been around for a while, but was it in PHP, and teaching PHP, and being around in the PHP world for a while, was that the main space where you came to prominence versus InfoSec, versus being open source business owner? Was it primarily in being a PHP personality where you came to at least your original knownness? Snipe: I think probably. Probably, yes. When I grab onto something, I don't let go of it. I've been doing some Perl work. I've probably started with Perl, but that was back in the days when I ran Linux as a desktop on purpose. [laughs] Matt: Oh, my goodness. Snipe: I was writing some Perl stuff. Heard about this this crazy thing called PHP which looked way easier and was way more readable, and ended up writing some-- Now, terribly insecure. I know this now, because it's like 2000, 2001, something like that. Which is for going back a ways. I had just started to put out stupid scripts like e-card scripts and things like that, because they served the need that I needed to have filled. This is a well-known secret, but I worked Renaissance Fairs for a very long time. I was guild member number four of the International Wenches Guild. Matt: What? Snipe: Yes. That's not even the most interesting thing I can tell you. Anyway, I was running their website Wench.org which now looks terrible because Facebook took over that community. I used to have interactive like sending roses to each other. Because in the Renaissance Fair community, different rose colors have different meaning. It's basically like an online greeting card thing with these built-in rose color meanings. You could pick different colors of roses and send them to people that you liked, or people you didn't like, or whatever. Having this playground of a huge community of people who-- Basically, I would post to the forums. I'd say, "I'm thinking about building this. What do you guys think?" By the time they actually answered me, I had already built it anyway. I was just like, "This looks really interesting. I want to see if I can do this." Matt: To do it, yes. Snipe: Yes, exactly. It was really, really cool to have access to, basically, a beta-testing community that was super excited about anything that I put out. It definitely stoked the fires for me, stretching and doing things that I may not have done if I didn't have a reason to do it before. Matt: Well, I love how much passion plays a part there. Not this ill-defined like, "I'm passionate about programming. That means I spend all my free time doing it," but more like-- I've noticed that a lot of people who are a little bit older had PHP-- Actually, just developers in general which is quite a few people I've had on the show. Snipe: Are you calling me old? Matt: Me too. I'm in the group too. Snipe: Are you calling me old? Oh my God. That's it. This interview is over. [laughter] Matt: You're going to burn the place down. I think those of us who started back when becoming a programmer wasn't necessarily going to make you big and rich. There's a little bit of that idea today. Go do a six-month boot camp, and then you're going to be rich or something. I think when a lot of us started-- I'm putting myself in that bucket, in the '90s and the '80s. When we started, it was because it was something that allowed us to do things we couldn't do otherwise. I don't know your whole back story, so I want to hear it, but a lot of the people I've noticed, "I was in the dancing community. I was in the video game community. I was in the Renaissance whatever Fair community." Snipe: I used to work on Wall Street. That was what I was doing before I got into computers. [laughs] Matt: Okay. Well, before I talk anymore, we need to talk about this. Tell me the story. Tell me about Wall Street, and then tell me when did you actually first get into computers? Snipe: I left high school. I was living with my sister in a tent in Montana for about nine months. Then it got too cold, our toothpaste started to freeze during the day. We were like, "F this business." We went down to Colorado because we'd met some friends at Colorado School of Mines. Stayed there for a little bit. Came back to New Jersey, and was like, "Well, I don't want to go to college. I also don't have any money for college." [laughs] There's that. I ended up waitressing for a little bit. Was waitressing, wearing my indoor soccer shoes, because I was a soccer player for 13 years. The coach from Caine College came in to eat at my restaurant. He looks at me with disdain and he goes, "You actually play soccer with those, or are they just for fashion?" Matt: Oh, my goodness. Snipe: I'm like, "Bitch, I was All-State. What are you talking about?" [laughter] Snipe: He's like, "Do you want to go to college?" I'm like, "I guess." He invited me to go to Caine College where I studied education of the hearing impaired for exactly one semester. [laughter] Snipe: I was like, "Holy crap. This is so boring. I can't do this." Not the education of the hearing impaired part. Matt: Just college. Snipe: Yes, it just wasn't my jam. I was like, "I want to move to New York." I moved to New York City. I pick up a paper, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm super not qualified to do any of these things." Basically, I was a leatherworker at a Renaissance Fair. I'd done makeup work for the adult film industry. I'm like, "Um." Of course, the easiest way to Wall Street is sales. I had the most grueling interview I've ever had in my life, because I didn't know anything about real sales compared to retail. I remember sweating so hard. I'd just dyed my hair back to a normal color. You could still see a little bit of green in it, and I'm wearing my sister's fancy, fancy suit. I have no idea what I'm actually going to be doing there. It is literally out of Glengarry Glen Ross, high-pressure sales that they're expecting from me. I'm like, "I'm 17, 18 years old. I have no idea what I'm doing." I managed to pull it out. At the very last minute, I got the job. Matt: Nice. Snipe: Was working at a place that did forex futures. Then they went out of business because the principals moved back to Argentina with all of our clients' money. That spent a little bit of time in the attorney general's office, making it really clear that we had nothing to do with it. Matt: At least it was there and not jail. Snipe: That's absolutely true. It's not that uncommon that the main traders are the ones that actually have the access to the real money. Then we started working at a stock shop. I realized I was working until six, seven o'clock at night, busting my ass all for lines in a ledger. I was actually pretty good at that job, but I also caught myself using those creepy, sleazy sales techniques on my friends and my family. When you catch yourself saying, "Well, let me ask you this." You're like, "Ah, ah." Matt: "I hate myself. Oh, my God, what am I doing?" Snipe: I know. I just realized that I hated myself, and that I didn't want to do it anymore. I quit my job. I had a boyfriend at that time that had a computer. That's pretty much it. I had done some basic programming, literally BASIC programming in high school. Matt: Like QBasic? Snipe: Yes. BASIC in high school. In fact, funny story, when I wrote my first book-- I almost didn't graduate high school because my parents were getting divorced, and I just checked out. I was good in all my classes, I just checked out. I had to pass a computer programming class in order to graduate. My teacher, who was the track coach as well, Coach Terrell, he knew me from soccer. He calls me into his office. He's like, "Alison, I've got to tell you. You just weren't here, and you know that if you don't show up, I penalize you for that. Did really well on all your tests, but attendance is not optional in this class. I just don't think I can pass you." I'm like, "I'm not going to graduate then." He's like, "All right. Well, the thing is that when you're here, you do really good work. I'm going to let you go this time, but you've really got to get your shit together." Matt: Wow. Snipe: When I published my first programming book, I sent him a copy. [laughter] Matt: That's awesome. Snipe: I wrote on the inside, "Dear Coach Terrell, thanks for having faith in me." [laughs] Matt: That's amazing, and you know he has that sitting on the shelf where everyone can see it. Snipe: Yes, yes, yes. Matt: That's really cool. Snipe: That was really nice of him. [laughs] My life would have had a slightly different outcome if I'd had to take some more time, and get a GED, and everything else just because I didn't show up to my programming class. Matt: Wow. Snipe: Anyway, I left Wall Street because I had a soul, apparently. Matt: Turns out. Snipe: It turns out, "Surprise." I totally still have one. [laughter] Matt: It's funny because you're telling me this whole story, and what I'm seeing in front of my face in Skype is your avatar. For anyone who's never seen this avatar, it's got a star around one eye, smirky, slanty eyes, looking down where you're like, "I'm going to get you." It's funny hearing you tell this story, and just the dissonance is so strong of seeing that, hearing your voice, and then hearing you talk about being on Wall Street. Obviously, I'm looking back. Hindsight is 20/20, but seeing this story turned out the way it has so far does not surprise me, looking at the picture of you that I'm looking at right now. Snipe: Mohawk people have souls too. Matt: It turns out, yes. Snipe: I got that mohawk as a fundraiser for EFF. Matt: Really? Snipe: I raised like $1,500 for EFF a bunch of years ago. Matt: You just liked it and kept it? Snipe: Yes. Once I had it, I was like, "Wait a minute. This completely fits me. Why did I not have this my entire life?" Matt: That's awesome. Snipe: Yes, there was a good reason behind it. Matt: Honestly, what I meant is actually the inverse which is that I associate having the soul-- When you imagine a soulless, crushing New York City job where you hate what you're doing, you don't usually associate it with the sense of owning who I am and myself that is associated with the picture I'm looking at right in front of me. Your boyfriend at that time had a computer, you actually had a little bit of history because you'd studied at least some coding. You said primarily and BASIC in high school. Where did you go from there? Was that when you were doing the Renaissance Fairs, and you started building that? Or was there a step before that? Snipe: No. Remember, this is back when the Web-- I'm 42. Matt: I wasn't making any assumptions about what the Web was like at that point. Snipe: I think there might have been one HTML book that was about to come out. That's where we were. If you wanted to do anything on the Web, you basically figured out how to right-click- Matt: View source them. Snipe: -and view source, and you just poked at things until they did what you wanted. There was no other way around that. I realized that I really liked it because it let me say what I wanted to say, it let me make things look-- For what we had back then, we didn't have JavaScript, or CSS, or any of that stuff. Matt: Right. Use that cover tag. Snipe: Yes, exactly. It was enormously powerful to be able to have things to say, and put them out there, and other people could see it. Then I just started to freelance doing that. I was also doing some graphic design for one of those-- It's like the real estate magazines, like Autotrader type of things but for cars. I used to do photo correction for them using CorelDraw, I think it was. Matt: Oh, my gosh, that's a throwback. Snipe: Yes. I'm an old, old woman. [laughter] Matt: I've used CorelDraw in my day, but it's been a long time. Snipe: Our hard drives would fill up every single day, and so we'd have to figure out what had already gone to press that we can delete it off. Basically, Photoshopping, to use Photoshop as a verb inappropriately, garbage cans and other stuff out of people's black and white, crappy photos. Because he was nice enough to give me a job. I offered and I said, "You know, I can make you a website." He's like, "Yes, the Internet's a fad." I was like, "I'm just trying to build up my portfolio, dude, for you for free." He's like, "Yes, yes, yes, it's not going to stick." I'm like, "Okay." [laughs] Matt: All right, buddy. Snipe: That's where it started. Then I think I moved to Virginia for a short amount of time, and then Georgia. Got a job at a computer telephony company where I was running their website, and also designing trade show materials like booths and stuff, which, by the way, I had no idea how to do. No one was more surprised than I was when they took pictures of the trade show and the booth actually looked amazing. Matt: That should look good. Snipe: I was like, "Look, yes." Matt: "Hey, look at that." [laughter] Snipe: That's very, very lucky. There was definitely a lot of fake it until you make it. Also, I've never designed a trade show booth, but trade show booths do get designed by someone, and at least a handful of those people have never done it before. Matt: Right. I'm relatively intelligent person, I understand the general shape of things. Snipe: Yes. Get me some dimensions, I'm sure I could make this work. Matt: What is the DPI thing again? [chuckles] Snipe: Yes, exactly. That was exciting and fun. Then I moved back to New York to teach web design and graphic design at an extension of Long Island University. Matt: Cool. Snipe: Yes, it was actually very, very cool. The school was owned by these two teeny-tiny Israeli ladies. They were absolutely fabulous. It was kind of a crash course in Hasidic and Orthodox Jewish culture. It was in Flatbush, so basically, 90% of my students were Hasidic or Orthodox. I think I broke every rule ever. The two owners of the school would just look at me and laugh. They wouldn't offer me any guidance. They just liked watching. Matt: Well, it would be awkward. Yes. Snipe: Exactly. I'm like, "Why would you do that to me?" [laughter] Snipe: They're just laughing. I could hear them laughing from upstairs- Matt: That's hilarious. Snipe: -when they knew I was putting my foot in another cultural mess. That was really, really fun. I learned a lot from that. I learned a lot about teaching. I even got to have a deaf student one time, which was great, except I didn't know-- I used to know or still know American sign language, but when I learned, there weren't any computer-related signs. It was actually a weird barrier that I hadn't thought about. We're like, "Okay, I can sign as I'm talking," but then I'm like, "Wait, do I have to spell all this stuff out every single time? I have no idea." That was cool. Then I started just doing HTML for a company called Cybergirl, which is not a porn site. I always have to clarify that. Not that there's anything wrong with porn, but it was not, in fact, a porn site. It was an online women's community. Matt: Cool. Snipe: They weren't really super profitable in the community itself, so they had a separate part that did websites for clients. I was put on to work mostly with their clients. They had stuff written in ASP, ColdFusion. Because the people who had designed it weren't there anymore, I basically had to learn all of these languages. Also, we only had a part time sysadmin, so when we'd hire someone new, I'm like, "I guess I'm creating email accounts for people now." I became a stand-in for a lot of different roles. Got to play with a lot of different languages, some of which I liked vastly better than others. ColdFusion? Really? [laughs] Matt: ASP wasn't that bad. There was worse things than classic ASP. Snipe: Yes, there are. That is a thing that could be said. That is an opinion one might have. [laughter] Matt: Trying to keep a positive spin on it. Snipe: I would say that all of these languages, the ones that are still around, have come a very long way since then, including PHP. Matt: Yes, yes. .NET is not a classic ASP. PHP 5, whatever. PHP 7 is no PHP 3, for sure. Snipe: Certainly. Matt: Were you using PHP at that point already, then? Was that one your-- Snipe: Yes. That was one I was-- Because I'd already done some Perl stuff, and it just wasn't that hard. One of our clients had a website, I think it was The Bone Marrow Foundation, had their website in PHP. That forced me to do a bit more legwork on it. That was the beginnings, the very beginnings. Matt: At that point, we're probably talking about single-page PHP files for each page. At the top, you've got a common.inc that you're doing your database connections. Then below that, it's just a template, right? Okay. Snipe: Functions.inc and usually some sort of PHTML. [laughs] Matt: God, PHTML, yes. Okay, all right. Snipe: I told you, I am an old, old lady. Matt: Honestly, we worked on a site that still used PHTML and things like four or five years ago. I was like, "I didn't even know that PHP parser is still allowed for this." Apparently, some of these things still stick around. Snipe: Whatever you set as your acceptable file formats, it'll parse. Matt: Yes, you can make it happen. Snipe: I can have a .dot site file extension if I wanted to. Matt: I like that idea now. Jeez. When was the transition? What were the steps between there and ending up where you are now? Are we still many steps behind, or did you get out on your own pretty quickly after that? Snipe: I was doing some contract work. Thanks to a friend that I'd met through IRC. I was doing some contract work for a company out in San Diego. They were an ad agency. This is the beginning of the days when marketing companies were trying to own digital, and they were trying to build up their digital departments. They moved me out there because they're like, "You're amazing, so come on out here and build up our team." I did. I built up their team. We had some really cool clients. We had San Diego Zoo, San Diego Padres, California Avocado Commission. At that time, I didn't like avocados. I was giving away free avocados that I did not like. Matt: [chuckles] Oh, no. That's so good. Snipe: I hate myself now for knowing how many avocados I could have had. [laughs] I got to build lots of custom web apps, all the database-y stuff. That was really fun. I left there, started my own web design company for lack of a better term, where I was basically using PHP, but also pretending like I knew how to design anything at all. Sorry, hang on. Incoming call. Building my own custom applications for people. None of it is really that fancy, but whatever. That was fun. Then I broke my foot. This is before the ACA, and so I had no insurance. Thousands of dollars and a spiral fracture later, I'm like, "Maybe I should get a real job." [laughter] Snipe: I started to work for the San Diego Blood Bank, which was a great gig. It's probably my favorite job. The pay wasn't that great, but my coworkers were great. Your hours were your hours. There was no overtime. If you had to work overtime, you got paid double time and a half, something like that. It was insane. Matt: Especially compared to the ad agency world, which is basically the exact opposite. Snipe: Yes. Yes. There's no amount of blood you can show to prove that you're loyal to that particular market. I ended up moving back to New York and ended up working for the Village Voice for a little while. Matt: Really? That's cool. Snipe: Yes, that was cool. Unfortunately, they had already been bought out by Newtimes, and so they were not the Village Voice that I grew up with, the one that warmed the liberal cockles of my heart. It was actually a crap place to work, to be honest. People were getting fired all the time. There was this one guy, he used to hang out in the archives room with an X-Acto blade and a piece of paper and would just cut at the piece of paper. He was actually scary. Everyone was afraid of him, because that's office shooter kind of crazy. Matt: Exactly, exactly. Snipe: I left there, finally, and worked for another ad agency. That's the one that I was working at when I finally started to work with Snipe-IT. Finally started to make Snipe-IT. For a while, while I was in California, the nice thing about running your own gig back then, because it was like a one-man shop, so I didn't have people that I had to worry about. I got a chance to work with tigers for about a year. It was just exhausting. That was around the time when I was writing my book, too. Working with tigers, commuting four hours a day, coming home stinking like raw chicken and tiger pee. Then working on my book, and then whatever I can possibly eke out for customers. It was pretty chaotic and definitely exhausting, but they were good times. Matt: I don't want to preach too far on this, but I feel like the more of our story that takes us around different aspects of life and different experiences, the more we bring to the thing we're in right now. That's one of the reasons I keep pushing on people having histories before they came to tech or diverse histories in tech. It's not to say that someone who just graduated from college and instantly got a job as a developer is therefore now incomplete, but I think that a lot of what makes a lot of people interesting is what they bring outside. That's true for anybody, right? What makes you different from the people around you makes you different, and makes you interesting, and it makes you have a perspective to be able to bring that the people around you don't. It sounds like you have quite a few of those, at least as you enter into the communities that I'm asking you from the perspective of whether PHP, or Laravel, or anything like that. I don't know where I'm going with that, but anyway. Snipe: [laughs] Matt: That's very interesting to hear. Snipe: I always say I sound really interesting on paper. I'm not really that interesting to talk to, but when you actually look at all the crap I've done, it's like, "Wow. That's kind of a lot." Matt: Right. That is a lot going on. Snipe: It's all weird. Weird stuff. Matt: If I remember right, the book that you wrote was a Wrox PHP book, right? Snipe: Yes, yes. You can still get it on Amazon, but it costs more to ship. Matt: Really? I got to-- Snipe: Actually, I'm not sure. It may just be eBay. The last time I checked, it was selling for $2.95 and costs like $80 to ship. [laughs] Matt: Professional PHP4 Web Development Solutions. Snipe: Yes. Matt: I don't see a Mohawk. I don't know which one's you. Snipe: No, no. Matt: [laughs] Snipe: Yes, I know. Gosh, it's a mystery of the ages, isn't it? [laughs] Matt: All right. Yes. $22.99. Wow. What was your experience like writing a book? Would you do it again? Snipe: Possibly, but I would need a bit more written assurances up front about how-- This is a co-authored book. Basically, we were not given communication information with each other. We were writing these chapters completely independently and it sucked. I offered to set up a bulletin board just so we could-- For some reason, they didn't want us talking to each other or something. I don't know, but I was like, "Because I don't know where this chapter is going to fall, I want to make sure that I'm not rehashing a thing that's already been discussed, or touching on something that needs more information." They never facilitated that. They actually pushed back against it. It was really frustrating. You're literally writing chapters in a vacuum that then have to be cohesive when you string them all together. I would need to know if it was going to be a co-authorship. I would need to know that this will truly be collaborative. Because the way it looks on the cover, it looks like we're all hanging out. No, I don't think I've ever spoken to those people ever. [laughs] Matt: Wow. Jeez. Snipe: It's really weird. It's really weird. I did not like that. I thought that was really just not a way to give the best experience to the reader. If I was going to collaborate, I would have to make sure that there was something like that. I've toyed with writing a couple of books over the last few years. It is also a bit of a time suck. Matt: Yes, it is. My perception, what I've told people in the past is that people often ask me, "Should I write a book with a traditional publisher like you did?" Because mine was with O'Reilly. "Or should I self-publish like a lot of the people in our community have?" My general perception has been, if you want to make money, self-publish. Snipe: Definitely. Matt: If you want reach that's outside of your current ability, then consider a traditional publisher. You've got quite a bit of reach and I wonder whether it's-- Snipe: This is like 2003, though. Matt: I don't mean for them, but I mean now. If you're going at it now. It seems like there'll probably be less of a reason for you to do a traditional publisher at this point. Snipe: I don't know, though. I still kind of O'Reilly. Matt: You still like it? Snipe: Being a published O'Reilly author, I still toy with that, honestly. Matt: I tell people I got a degree in secondary English education, basically. This O'Reilly book is my proof that I'm actually a real programmer. Snipe: [laughs] You know what? Honestly, that was really important to me back then. Snipe: Me too, really. Matt: I don't know where things would have gone, I don't know if I would have-- I probably would have stuck with it because I really, really liked it. I think that gave me a bit of confidence that I really needed. Proof, again, because I didn't graduate college. I nearly didn't graduate high school because of the programming class. [laughs] It was a way for me to say not just to the rest of the world, but to myself, like, "Hey, I actually know what I'm talking about." Matt: You can't underappreciate just how significant that is. I love that you said it. It's not just to everybody else, it's to you, too. Snipe: More than anyone else, to myself, honestly. I don't care what you guys think. [laughs] Matt: I spent several thousand hours writing a book with a major publisher so that I can overcome impostor syndrome. It's totally worth it. [laughter] Snipe: I still have it. That's a thing, I have it. Matt: I still have it, but maybe a little less. Snipe: At least if someone actually pushes the impostor syndrome too far, I'll be like, "I wrote a book. What have you done?" Matt: Exactly. Snipe: Meanwhile, I go off and rock in the corner as if, "Oh, my God. I don't deserve to be here. I don't deserve to be here." Matt: Exactly. It certainly doesn't make it go away, but maybe it's a tool in our arsenal to battle it. Snipe: That's a very good way to describe it. Matt: I like it. Snipe: I would need that to be a bit more of a tighter process. Matt: Well, if you decide to write with O'Reilly, I know some people. Just give me a call. Snipe: [laughs] I also know some people in O'Reilly. Matt: I was just going to say I'm pretty sure you don't need me for any of that kind of stuff. I just had to say it to try and seem like I actually matter, so this works. Snipe: Of course, you matter. Matt: I matter. Snipe: I got up early for you, Matt. I got up early for you. Matt: That's true. Snipe: You don't have any idea. Matt: That's true, this is quite early your time. I appreciate it. Snipe: [laughs] Matt: I'm trying to not talk forever. I'm trying to move us on even though I'm just my usual caveats, everyone take a drink. You eventually started Snipe-IT. I think we skipped a couple of things. We were talking about you becoming the CTO of the ad agency and being in a place where you needed to manage that kind of stuff. You started Snipe-IT. You now have a remote team. Could you tell me a little about the makeup of your team, and what it's like running a remote team, and the pros and cons you've experienced, and anything else that you would want to share about what that experience is like for you? Snipe: Well, I'm really lucky, first of all, because although our team is remote, we're all also local. We can actually see each other, we'll go out and have beers when we hit a major milestone. We'll go out and have some champagne and celebrate that we do get to see each other's faces. Also, we were friends first, so that helps. It's totally, totally different. If you're looking for advice on how to run a real remote team, that I can't help you with. I can't tell you how to manage your friends through Slack, though. [laughs] Matt: Basically, you and a bunch of friends live like an hour driving distance to each other or whatever and choose to work from home? Snipe: More like seven minutes. [laughs] Matt: Jeez. Snipe: Yes, yes. Matt: Okay, so this is really just like, "We just don't feel like going to an office," kind of vibe. Snipe: It's pants, it's pants. I'm not putting on pants. I've worked too hard in my career to have to put on pants anymore. There is a reason this isn't a video call, Matt. Seriously. [laughter] Matt: I wish that this was one of the podcasts-- Snipe: I think I just made Matt blush, by the way. Matt: I wish this was one of the podcasts where they name each episode, because that would have been the name right there for this episode. I might have to, just for this one, just give it a name just for that. Okay. I hear you. I get it. Snipe: The thing is I hadn't actually planned on hiring when I did. The reality is I should have, because I was really buckling under the helpdesk. That customer support load was a lot. It was causing me a great deal of anxiety. Looking back at it now, it was really untenable. Of course, I think that I'm 10 feet tall and bulletproof, so I'm like, "I got this. I got this." Meanwhile, it's four o'clock in the morning and I can't even see straight anymore. I ended up having to hire someone for a personal reason. She's actually worked out great. She's an absolute rock star on the helpdesk. She's never worked a helpdesk before, and she owns it. It's actually really, really great. Once I'd hired her, I think-- The onboarding takes a little bit. Especially, literally never worked a helpdesk before, so it's not just onboarding with my company, it's like onboarding the entire concept. As soon as she got her footing, she just completely handled it. It was really great. The next hire was a developer/sysadmin that I've known for a while. He is just fantastic. He's actually the harder one because he, I think, requires a little bit more structure, and a little bit more face time. I need to be better. I do. I need to be better about working with that because in my head, I'm still managing this the way that I want to be managed. I forget that that's actually not my job anymore. Matt: People are different. Snipe: Yes, people are different. Also, not everybody wants what I want. Frankly, it doesn't matter what I want. Ultimately, that's no longer a luxury that I have, caring more about how I want things to go for myself. That priority has shifted, and so I'm having to painfully learn [chuckles] that lesson. Not painfully. I love my entire team. They're absolutely amazing. I'm super, super grateful for them every day that goes by. Every time one of them takes vacation, we all hold on to our desks. We're like, "Okay, we can get through this, we can get through this." It's a learning curve, certainly. I've run my own small business, I've run dev teams. This is a different thing though, because the reason why I wanted to make this a company instead of just running this as a side project is because I've worked for tons of shitty companies. I want to build the company that I wish I'd worked for. Matt: I'm so sorry for doing this, but I was doing that thing where you're hearing somebody talking and waiting for your chance to talk. I literally was about to say Dan and I, when we started Tighten, the first thing we said was, "We want to build the company we want to work for." You just said and I'm like, "Exactly." That introduces the problem you're talking about, which is you just assume everybody wants the same things you want. It also means nobody else gets to force you to put people through things that you wouldn't want to be put through. It's an incredible freedom if you can make it profitable. Snipe: Yes. Absolutely. Getting to institute stuff that I think is really worker-friendly. We all make our own hours. We have office hours so that when Victoria's handling the helpdesk, she's got access to the text that she needs during a certain amount of time. In general, she's got a kid. We have to have that flexibility, so that she-- Honestly, she just lets us know that she's going to pick up her kid. It's like, "Okay, cool. See you back in half an hour or whatever." Vacation, she had not had a real vacation in probably 10 or 15 years. Last year, we were like, "You are taking vacation." She kept checking into Slack. I'm like, "Girl, I will actually revoke your credentials." Matt: [laughs] Exactly. Snipe: Do not play with me. Matt: I love it. Snipe: This year, I've decided that there's two weeks basically mandatory vacation, and we're going to put $3,000 towards each person's vacation funds- Matt: That's cool. Snipe: -so that they can actually go and do something awesome, and relaxing, and not stress about money while they're there, and just get to go and actually enjoy things, and come back refreshed and ready to work. It's pretty cool being able to come up with stuff like this and really like, "What would I have needed?" Because when I was working at the ad agencies especially, I would accrue my PTO. Honestly, that's why Snipe-IT existed. It was because I had two and a half weeks, three weeks of PTO that was not going to roll over. They made me take vacation in November. They wouldn't let me do it in December. They made me do it in November, and I was like, "Yes, three weeks of just relaxing, playing video games." That didn't work. I accidentally the product. [laughs] Now, I accidentally the business. Matt: That's awesome. One of the things I often talk about as an entrepreneur, as a business owner is something that I think people are scared of talking about, which is power. Because being a business owner means you get to hire, you get to figure out how money is spent, you get to figure out what pressures are and are not put in the people you work with. I call that power, but I think power doesn't have to be a scary word because, really, what matters is what you do with the power. When we hear power as a negative thing, it is usually because the people on power are benefiting themselves. I think that something is really beautiful, and wonderful, and we need more of in the world is when we can see power as a positive thing, because people get power and then use it for the benefit of other people. I just want to applaud and affirm what you're doing, because you just described that. It's like, "I got power, and the first thing I did was work to make other people's lives better understanding what the situation that they were in was." I love hearing that. I'm really glad that we got to talk about this today. Snipe: Well, thank you. I'm looking forward to coming up with more stuff like that. Matt: I love it. Snipe: It's super important to me. Our customers are incredibly important to us, obviously, but my staff is as important. You can't have one without the other either direction. Matt: In the end, they're just both people who you work with. The hope is that you're able to make both groups of people really have lives that are better because they had a chance to interact with you. Snipe: Yes, absolutely. Matt: Okay. We are almost out of time. I asked people at Tighten if they had any questions for you. They gave me a million, and I haven't gotten any of them. They're all going to be mad at me, so I'm trying to look at the one that I could pull up that won't turn into a 30-minute long conversation. Snipe: I'm Italian. There is literally nothing you can talk to me about that won't turn into a 30-minute conversation. [laughs] Matt: All right. I'll literally go with the question that has the least words in it and see if that gets us anywhere. Coffee or tea? Snipe: Red Bull. Matt: There you go. See how short that was? All right. Snipe: This podcast is sponsored by Red Bull. [laughter] Matt: It's so funny that it's been the thing at Tighten for the longest time, where those of us who started the company and the first hires were primarily coffee people. There's one tea holdout, but over time, the tea contingent has grown. Just within the last nine months, we hired two people who are Red Bull addicts. All of a sudden, we're shopping for the company on-site and they're like, "Orange Red Bull, no sugar, energy, blah, blah, blah." I'm like, I have a course in Red Bull flavors. Anyway, I still think it's pretty gross, but I did try some of them. Snipe: It's disgusting. No, it is utterly vile. It is really, really gross. [laughter] Matt: I don't get it. Please pitch me on why I would drink red Bull instead of coffee then. Snipe: No. If you don't drink Red Bull, then there will be more for me. First of all, I'm not going to pitch that. Matt: World's dwindling storage of Red Bull. Snipe: Obviously, we buy our stores out of local Red Bull, it's ridiculous. We have a main store, and then we have a failover store. Listen, you don't drink it because it tastes good. It tastes like dog ass, but it wakes you up. It keeps you awake. It feels the same role that coffee does, and frankly, I don't think that coffee tastes that good. Matt: Okay. Fair enough. Snipe: I can ask the same question to you. Matt: Right. For you, it's a combination. You don't like the flavor of either, but one of them you can buy in bulk and throw in the fridge? Snipe: Yes, yes. Matt: Got it. I get that. I love the flavor of coffee, but I'm like a geek. I have all the equipment, and all that kind of stuff. Snipe: Of course, you do. [laughter] Matt: Am I predictable? I am predictable. Okay. Snipe: I will neither confirm nor deny. My lawyer has advised me. [laughs] Matt: Not to make a statement on this particular-- I have one more and I'm praying that I can make it short, but I probably won't. You are a member of the Laravel community. You use Laravel. You share things every once in a while, but for someone who is such a big name, who's a member of the Laravel community, much of your popularity is not within the Laravel community. You're not popular because you're speaking at Laracon, you're not creating Laravel packages that all the people are consuming. It's this interesting thing where you're a very well-known person who uses Laravel and is a member of the Laravel community but is not necessarily gaining all that fame within Laravel space. It's an interesting overlap. As someone who does have exposure to lots of the tech communities, you're in the InfoSec world, you've been in PHP for a while, but you're also solidly Laravel. Do you have any perspectives on either, maybe the differences between InfoSec and PHP, differences between InfoSec and Laravel, and/or is there anything that you would say to the Laravel community, or things you'd either applaud or hope to see grow? Is there anything you just want to say about the way Laravel compares, or connects, or overlaps, or whatever with the rest of the world that you're in? Snipe It's always an ongoing joke in the InfoSec community. PHP developers are pretty much the easiest punching bag in the InfoSec community. Matt: And everywhere else. Snipe: In fact, I think just yesterday, I submitted an eye-rolling gift in relation to someone at InfoSec, bagging on PHP developers. I get it. When the language first came out, it was really easy to learn. You didn't need to have any knowledge of programming, or discipline, or best practices. There were no best practices for quite some time in PHP. I totally get that. The thing is that that's not really the world that we live in anymore. It's actually hard to write a PHP application without using a framework these days. Because the frameworks are so much better and it's so much faster, that for me, I'm pretty sure I could still write a PHP application without a framework, but why the hell would? If I ever have to write another gddmn login auth routine, I'll kill myself. I will actually kill myself. Comparing InfoSec to PHP or Laravel is like comparing apples to orangutans. They're entirely different animals and there is a little bit of overlap, but typically not. In general, PHP has a bad reputation in InfoSec. In fact, I will tell you a very brief story about how I got into InfoSec. This one's always a fun one. I used to run a nonprofit organization when I moved to California the first time. It was basically like Megan's Law for animal abusers. Criminal animal abuse. I would pull in data, break it down statistically based on a couple of different pointers like domestic violence connection, blah blah blah blah blah, and basically run statistics on that stuff. This was going back a very, very long time when nobody really knew or gave a crap at all about AppSec. At one point, my website got hacked. The organization's website got hacked. I am literally on my way to speak at a conference in Florida, an animal welfare conference. I'm checking in. I'm like, "Hi, I'm Alison Gionatto. I'm a speaker." She goes, "You're petabuse.com. That's great. I'm so sorry to hear about what happened." I'm like, "I've been on a plane for a couple of hours." I'm like, "Wait, what?" [chuckles] I run to my hotel room, and somebody has defaced the website with an animated GIF, and a song playing in the background which was basically a clip from Meetspin, and they linked to Meatspin. If any of your listeners don't know what Meatspin is- Matt: I don't. Snipe: -please do not Google that. You can google it, but have safe search on. Matt: Is it like Goatse kind of stuff? Snipe: Yes. "You spin me right round, baby, right round" playing in the background on autoloop. To this day, when I hear that song, I shiver a little bit. Matt: Trigger, yes. Snipe: Exactly. I ended up actually talking to this guy who thought that we were a much bigger organization than we were. He was trying to extort money, of course. I was like, "Dude, you have you have no idea. We get like $800 in donations every month. You are barking up the wrong tree." He's like, "I thought you were bigger. I'm sorry, but it is what it is." I toyed with him long enough to figure out what he had done. The thing is, this is on a Cobalt RaQ server. First of all, we're going back. Second of all, those are not exactly going for their security, but it was what I could afford. Honestly, it's what I could afford. I figured it out, I locked him out. I did leave him one final kind of F you text. [laughter] Snipe: Just so that he knew. That was how I got into this in the first place was basically a horrific, horrific internet meme and the defacement of my organization's website. Again, this is 2004, 2005. Application security became really important to me, and that's why I'm here. [chuckles] That's why I go to DEF CON. That's why I speak about application security and security in general. To get back to your original question, there isn't really an overlap. There is this disdainful relationship, for the most part, coming from both directions because InfoSec people don't typically treat programmers in general very well, but especially not PHP developers. PHP developers are tired of getting shit on, and so they don't necessarily treat-- It becomes a bit of a self-fulfilling-- Matt: Impostor, yes. Exactly. Snipe: Honestly, it's all just a bunch of dumbass egos and it's stupid. If we would just talk to each other a little bit more, we'd probably be a little better off. Matt: Come on, somebody. You'll be surprised to hear that I could talk about InfoSec and PHP for an hour, but we're out of time. I don't know if I'm going to have you back sometime or I don't know what, but this's been amazing. I really appreciate you spending some time with me. Before we cut off for the day and I cry because of all the topics I'm not going to cover, is there anything you wanted to talk about? Anything you want to plug, anything you want to cover, anything you want to say to the people that we haven't got to cover today? Snipe: Nothing that really comes to mind. I am still really passionate about AppSec. If you're using a framework and you're not utilizing all of the security stuff that's built in already, specifically Laravel is really good with that. I've had write some Middleware to add some additional CSP headers and things like that. If you're already paying the price, the overhead of using a framework, then freaking use it. Actually use all of the bits that are good, not just the bits that you don't feel like writing. Laravel makes it really hard to avoid the CSRF tokens. You'll actually have to go out of your way to disable those. I like that about Laravel. I like that it's opinionated. I like that it doesn't want you to screw this up. That said, any developer left to their own devices sufficiently motivated will still screw it up. Matt: Will screw something up, yes. Snipe: Yes, Exactly. Frameworks like Laravel, I think once that are headed in the right direction, so your default login already uses bcrypt to hash the password. You would, again, have to go out of your way to write something that would store something in cleartext or MD5. I think it's a step in the right direction. Use your frameworks, learn what their built-in security functionality is, and use them. Matt: Use it. [laughs] Snipe: One of the packages I'm actually writing for Laravel right now is an XSS package which will basically walk through your schema, and will try and inject rows of XSS stuff in there so that when you reload the app and if you got to any kind of functional testing or acceptance testing setup, you'll be able to see very quickly what you've forgotten to escape. Matt: I love it. Snipe: For a normal Laravel app, that's actually hard to do because the double braces will escape everything. For example, if you're using data from an API, maybe you're not cleaning it as well or whatever. That's one of the packages that I actually am working on. Matt: That's great. Also, if you're using JavaScript, it's really common for people to not escape it, and so that all of a sudden, they forget to clean it. Snipe: Exactly. I wanted one quick way to basically just check and see how boned I was. That'll be fun. Matt: Yes. Does it have a name yet that we can watch for or would you just link it once you have it? Snipe: Well, the only name-- You know how the mocking data packages called Faker? You can imagine what I'm considering calling this that I probably won't call it? [laughs] Matt: Probably won't, but now we can all remember it that way? Yes. Snipe: No promises. Absolutely no promises is all I'm saying. [laughs] Matt: Assuming it's safe for work, I will link the name in the show notes later. If not, you could just go-- [crosstalk] [laughter] Snipe: Again, no promises. Matt: I like it. Okay. You all have taken enough drinks, so I won't say my usual ending for you to drink too. Snipe, Alison, thank you so much. Thank you for the ways you have spoken up for a lot of things that really matter both in this call and our community as a whole. Thank you for hopefully helping me but also our entire community get better going forward, but also the things you brought to us in the past in terms of application security. I don't know why I didn't say this earlier, but Mr. Rogers is maybe one of my top heroes of all time. That was what was going through my mind when you were talking about running your company. Thank you for being that force both for running companies that way and taking care of people, and then, of course, by proxy for just the people who you're working with. The more people that are out there doing that, I think the better it is for all of us. This has been ridiculously fun. If anyone wants to follow you on Twitter, what's your Twitter handle and what are other things they should check out? That URL for Snipe-IT? I will put all of these in the show notes, but I just wanted you to get a chance to say them all at the end. Snipe: My Twitter handle is @snipeyhead, because @snipe was taken. I'm still pissed at that guy. [laughter] Snipe: The URL for Snipe-IT is snipeitapp.com. Not very creative. All of our issues are on GitHub. Your pool of requests are welcome. [laughter] Snipe: As always. Matt: Nice. Snipe: It is free. If it helps you solve some of your problems at your organization, we would love for you to try it out. If you'd like to give us money, that's awesome too. Ultimately, the more people who are using it, the better. Matt: Nice. Okay. Well, thank you so much for your time. Everyone, check out the show notes as always. We'll see you again in a couple of weeks with a special episode. I'll tell you more what it is when that one happens. See you. Snipe: [chuckles] Thank you so much, Matt.

With a seemingly endless amount of new mattress options becoming available, it is unsurprising that the market has become increasingly aggressive. As companies invest in more innovative solutions to get in front of customers, review sites, blogs and YouTube videos have moved to the forefront of how customers are deciding on their mattresses and how companies are attempting to battle for their business. With affiliate marketing becoming a colossal business for v/bloggers with the most coveted traffic, mattress companies are willing to pay influencers high affiliate commissions, but when relationships sour those same companies are just as glad to pay their attorneys. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to the podcast! My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. Two attorneys here with Pasha Law, practicing in California, Texas, New York, and Illinois. NASIR: And this is where we talk about the business in the news and, also, add our legal twist to that business news. MATT: This is going to come out after Thanksgiving, but I think this is a very appropriate story for Thanksgiving Day because it deals with actual sleeping, I guess, but it deals with mattresses. NASIR: Do a lot of people buy mattresses on Black Friday or during Christmas holidays? MATT: After the meal. NASIR: I was thinking, like, the day after, you go out and buy a mattress. One thing I didn’t realize is that this mattress industry is cutthroat. You wouldn’t think so, but it seems like, if you’re in the industry, whether you’re in retail or you’re in this now, these online mattress companies, this is where everything’s going now. You can literally buy your mattress online. You see it all over the internet – even on TV now they advertise for it. It’s pretty crazy. MATT: Well, we’re going to be talking about the online aspect of it, as you say, but it makes sense if you’ve ever driven around and you see one company or one building business that sells mattresses and you’re likely to see a handful within a couple of minutes. I think the reason that is because, like you said, competition. Someone’s going to go to one store to look for a mattress. If they buy, that’s it. If not, there are going to be a bunch of competitors right there that can make the sale. NASIR: The whole mattress thing, I’m sure you’ve bought a mattress before, I assume. MATT: Never. NASIR: Well, let me tell you what it’s like… The whole mattress buying process, it’s never fun. I mean, not that shopping and stuff like that is ever fun. But it’s like they’re all the same. You’re making this kind of long-term investment where, if you make a mistake, even if they give you a guarantee return or whatever, you can try it out for 30 days, you’re not returning no mattress. Whatever you buy, you’re keeping. I can say that I’ve had pretty decent mattresses in my life. I would say that I kind of just get used to them – whether I like it or not. MATT: All very good points. I’ve felt the same things. I don’t know about you, but the last one I purchased was actually online and it was through an ad on some podcast I had listened to. Like you said, it was try it out for a hundred days. If you don’t like it, we’ll come and pick it up. If you have to send it back, that’s not even feasible, really. I don’t know how you would even do that. But, yeah, it’s a big investment. They say, depending on how much sleep you get, I guess it would be anywhere from 25 percent to a third of your time of your life, potentially sleeping on a mattress. NASIR: Yeah, that assumes that, when you’re sleeping, you’re sleeping on the mattress. MATT: Exactly. What we’re going to do is we’re going to kind of go through this. It’s a really interesting story that’s played out for a couple of years here dealing with online sales of mattresses which seems to be the growing trend. There’s a lot of different companies out there doing it – one of which is Casper which we’ll get into.

Blade Runner 2049 fixes some things about the original 1982 film. This is exactly why Andrew is happy and why Kurt is pissed off. Also, is it basically a remake in disguise? The boys dissect. Up next, what if The Coen Brothers and Quentin Tarantino were married and their child was a gore hound? You’d have S. Craig Zahler and Brawl in Cell Block 99 would be his sophomore effort. Kurt is back from Sitges and we get a little taste of that experience at the beginning of the show. Towards the end of the episode, Andrew has been turning off his brain with mostly junk cinema while Kurt saw his favorite film of the year. Have a listen and make your case/point in the comments below. As always, please join the conversation by leaving your own thoughts in the comment section below and again, thanks for listening! We’re now available on Google Play!       TIME TRACKS: Opening / Sitges recap: 0:00 – 10:28 Blade Runner 2049 (SPOILERS!): 10:29 – 1:03:32 Brawl in Cell Block 99 (SPOILERS!): 1:03:34 – 1:18:40 Watch List: 1:18:41 – 1:50:27 Outro/Next Week: 1:50:28 – 1:55:09 Closing Music: 1:53:05 – 1:55:47   MAIN REVIEWS: Blade Runner 2049 Brawl in Cell Block 99   THE WATCH LIST: KURT – Lucky – William Friedkin Q&A ANDREW – Kingsman: The Golden Circle – Maudie   OTHER THINGS: Denis Villeneuve’s “Next Floor” ScreenAnarchy’s Sitges coverage   RSS AND CONTACT INFO: show content R3 RSS Feeds: Cinecast (Andrew, Halfyard and Gamble show) After the Credits (Marina and Co.) Mamo! (Matt and Matt) ALL the RowThree Podcasts on one feed All posts and discussions from RowThree CONTACT: Andrew: about.me | email Kurt: Twitter | G+ | Letterboxd | email Matt: Twitter | LetterBoxd | Where the Long Tail Ends RowThree: Twitter | G+ | Letterboxd | Pinterest | email | voice mail: 612-367-ROW3  

Thanks for dropping by for another edition of The RowThree Cinecast; inching ever closer to the big Quincentenary episode. These week we play it fast and loose, as does director Doug Liman tend to do with the subject of this week’s main topic, American Made. It ain’t perfect or perhaps even all that memorable, but it sure is a fun way to spend a rainy fall afternoon. Not much time to get to anything else but the boys do each have a pair for The Watch List – well, Andrew has a “Listen List” this week with a new podcast mention. Kurt visits a couple of Cinecast favorites with David Mamet and Denis Villeneuve. Andrew visits one of the six, yes six(!), films of the year to feature a John Denver song in Ben Wheatley’s Free Fire. It’s not a whole lot to go on, but we certainly get some mileage out of it. As always, please join the conversation by leaving your own thoughts in the comment section below and again, thanks for listening! We’re now available on Google Play!       TIME TRACKS: Opening: 0:00 – 13:08 American Made (SPOILERS!): 13:09 – 1:10:26 Watch List: 1:10:27 – 2:04:46 Outro/Next Week: 2:04:48 – 2:17:04 Closing Music: 2:15:00 – 2:17:39   MAIN REVIEW: American Made   THE WATCH LIST: KURT – Enemy – Ronin ANDREW – “Case File” (podcast) – Free Fire   OTHER THINGS: RowThree TIFF Summary RowThree “The Prisoner” Podcast Case File   RSS AND CONTACT INFO: show content R3 RSS Feeds: Cinecast (Andrew, Halfyard and Gamble show) After the Credits (Marina and Co.) Mamo! (Matt and Matt) ALL the RowThree Podcasts on one feed All posts and discussions from RowThree CONTACT: Andrew: about.me | email Kurt: Twitter | G+ | Letterboxd | email Matt: Twitter | LetterBoxd | Where the Long Tail Ends RowThree: Twitter | G+ | Letterboxd | Pinterest | email | voice mail: 612-367-ROW3  

Scheduling lately has been rough as summer winds down and school is starting and film festivals and then of course hurricanes. But we managed to pull something together with the help of our friend Darren Aronofsky and his mother! The aforementioned hurricanes actually help to facilitate a trip through TIFF that otherwise wasn’t going to happen; so there’re lots of titles there to get through from Bruckner to Zahler. Andrew has been playing catch-up on some bullshit titles of the last year or so as well as going back to earlier Fincher as refresher. Lastly, Twin Peaks Season 3 The Return has wrapped up and Kurt has a number of things to discuss about that little slice of mayhem. Lots to dig into this week folks, and we’re starting with the book of Genesis. So stick this in your ear and settle in. As always, please join the conversation by leaving your own thoughts in the comment section below and again, thanks for listening! We’re now available on Google Play!       TIME TRACKS: Opening: 0 – 10:55 mother! (SPOILERS!): 10:56 – 57:40 TIFF report: 57:41 – 1:48:27 Watch List: 1:48:29 – 2:08:38 Outro/Next Week: 2:08:39 – 2:10:25 Twin Peaks: 2:10:26 – 2:30:03 Closing Music: 2:28:04 – 2:33:41   MAIN REVIEWS: mother! (SPOILERS!)   TIFF RECAP: KURT – Downsizing – Euthanizer – Mom and Dad – Loveless – First Reformed – Let the Corpses Tan – The Square – The Crescent – The Shape of Water – Brawl in Cell Block 99 – The Ritual – Vampire Clay – Unicorn Store   THE WATCH LIST: ANDREW – The Last King – Resident Evil: The Final Chapter – The Big Sick – Panic Room   RSS AND CONTACT INFO: show content R3 RSS Feeds: Cinecast (Andrew, Halfyard and Gamble show) After the Credits (Marina and Co.) Mamo! (Matt and Matt) ALL the RowThree Podcasts on one feed All posts and discussions from RowThree CONTACT: Andrew: about.me | email Kurt: Twitter | G+ | Letterboxd | email Matt: Twitter | LetterBoxd | Where the Long Tail Ends RowThree: Twitter | G+ […]

Nasir and Matt discuss the class action suit against Jessica Alba's Honest Company for allegedlyselling products that contained harmful chemicals. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: And we get to cover your favorite actress today, right? She is an actress, right? MATT: Yeah, and I have something to bring up. She has like a bio on their company site. It’s Jessica Alba and it says, “Golden Globe-nominated actress whose career includes roles in films such as Fantastic Four, blah blah blah… and television shows like Dark Angel, The Office, and Entourage.” When was she on The Office? That’s what I trying to remember. Was that a typo? NASIR: Yeah, it’s a typo. MATT: She’s prone to typos or making mistakes. NASIR: Making mistakes, yeah. MATT: We’ll get down to the bottom of this before the end of the episode. You know, how do you choose the name of your company if you’re starting a new company? You know, there’s a lot of thought that’s put into the name, probably – or at least I would hope. Her company is called Honest – The Honest Company Inc. Started in California in 2011 – maybe a little bit later, 2014? Somewhere in that range. NASIR: Sorry to interrupt. I had to look it up, of course, on The Office. I couldn’t get over it. Apparently, remember there was a movie within the show where Jim and Pam would watch? MATT: That doesn’t count. Yeah. NASIR: She was in that with Jack Black. I guess she was on The Office. MATT: All right. Well, that’s fine. She’s not lying about it but why would that be…? NASIR: How she’s known for? I know. It was like one episode, right? MATT: And that one was tricky, if you remember, because it was I think someone right after the Superb Bowl and they kept billing it as “oh, we have all these big names in this episode with Jack Black, Jessica Alba and all these people” and then we got into the actual episode which was funny. The episode was funny, I’ll give them that. But it was tricky because these actors just being in a separate show. NASIR: It was a little deceiving or dishonest, I would say, no? MATT: Perfect, there you go – dishonest – and that’s what we’re getting to and it is deceiving. It was misrepresentation. Whether it’s intentional or negligent, it was something. NASIR: That is the question. MATT: Here is the problem. So, she has this company that has all these I guess we’ll call them beauty products and products for babies and kids. NASIR: I think they’re trying to expand in different vertical. I mean, they do baby wipes, too. MATT: Oh, I that was the reason it started – because she’s a mom of two and she wanted to have these “safe products” that are not full of all these chemicals like most things out there and that’s fine and that’s why she named it The Honest Company because our products are honestly made without all these things and there’s a whole list of them on the website. And so, one of the them is SLS – this is listing it as sodium lauryl? Do I have the right thing? NASIR: Yeah, it’s a sodium lauryl sulfate. MATT: Okay. Yeah, sodium lauryl sulfate – SLS. NASIR: They’re not selling that. That’s what’s in it. MATT: Just bottles of that. NASIR: They’re selling a laundry detergent that is apparently SLS is a common known chemical. It’s used a lot in soaps and different things like that. It’s a common active ingredient but apparently – for whatever reason – some people say it’s not good so they were basically selling this laundry detergent. If you look at the product, it will list out all the chemicals that it doesn’t have. As we commonly see, we see a list of ingredients. Part of their transparency is they list all the ingredients that it doesn’t have and that’s one of them. MATT: Right, and that’s the whole Honest aspect of it, you know? It’s trying to be honest about things. “We honestly don’t have these chemicals,

Nasir and Matt talk about the mayor of Austin recommending employees work from home on Friday due to SXSW and the President being in town and how that affects employers. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: That’s correct. MATT: All right, that’s it. NASIR: That’s actually the first time you got that right. MATT: Yeah. Well, you know the phrase, “260th time’s a charm.” NASIR: Yeah. Wow. 260, huh? MATT: Yeah. NASIR: We’re getting up there. MATT: It’s a good amount – close to 300. NASIR: Closer to 300 than it was closer to 200, that’s true. MATT: Yeah, definitely. NASIR: Have you ever been to South by Southwest? MATT: Oh, is that what that means? I thought it was Swiss… I don’t know. I was going to try and pronounce it as a word. No, I haven’t. Never even been to Austin. NASIR: Oh. Most people compare Austin to San Diego – or I should say they see some comparables to it. I would agree, actually. The atmosphere, it’s a big small town just like San Diego. I have been in Austin during SXSW. It was crazy. MATT: Yeah, I remember that. NASIR: You remember that? But I was there because I was meeting with the Texas Department of Insurance – with eight or nine people from there – in this old office building. You know those old government buildings where smells of old books or something? And I was in the boardroom with, like, six or seven different people and, literally, outside – and this is Downtown Austin – there was like band music going off and drums and they were like, “Oh, yeah, that’s been going on all day and all week,” or whatever and I’m just thinking, “I drove all the way to Austin and SXSW is going on and I’m just sitting in this boring Texas Department of Insurance meeting.” But, anyway, that’s my experience. MATT: You didn’t even really partake in any of the… NASIR: No, I walked around a little bit. I needed to head home but, yeah, I just walked around. There were some activities going on. I don’t even think I ate lunch there. That was horrible. MATT: Time well spent. NASIR: Yeah. MATT: Well, is it this Friday? NASIR: I think it starts this Friday, yeah. MATT: Okay. NASIR: At least maybe the interactive part. Don’t ask me. I always forget there’s like all these Austinians? What are they called – Austinites? MATT: Austines? NASIR: Austines? MATT: Austinites is probably right. NASIR: Okay. They’ll be upset that I don’t know but, if I recall correctly, it’s divided into two or three segments – one of them being South by Southwest Interactive which is all the startup scene and things like that then you’ve got the music and something else, too. I don’t know. MATT: Austonians, maybe. NASIR: Austonians. MATT: I don’t know. NASIR: Yeah. MATT: It’s a tough call. Well, anyway, the reason we’re talking about that is – I didn’t know about this. You told me about it so I’m not going to pretend like I knew about this beforehand but the Austin mayor is encouraging people to work from home or take a half day on this Friday which I’m assuming will be the previous Friday from when people from when people are actually listening to this. That’s why I asked about the dates but that’s fine. NASIR: By the way, Austinites, according to Wikipedia. Demonym I guess is what the term is – a word to identify residents or natives of a particular place. MATT: This’ll be a fun episode to transcribe. NASIR: I know. Sorry. Okay. MATT: Yeah. So, the mayor is saying to anticipate heavy traffic. Part of the reason is because SXSW. Another reason is because the President is going to be in town and I assume another reason is probably there’s just traffic there in general. It is a big city with a lot of people in it. NASIR: Yeah. MATT: I’m not going to act like I know what the traffic is like because San Diego traffic really isn’t that bad and there’s a ton of people in San Diego, too.

Nasir and Matt discuss Mark Zuckerberg's decision to take two months of paternity leave, his pledge to donate99% of his Facebook shares to charity, and the alternative motive of Gravity's CEO to drastically raise the salary of allemployees. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist. My name is Nasir Pasha and we’re joined here with our maternity expert. MATT: Paternity expert, right? NASIR: Uh, no, you’re an expert in mothers expecting or having babies. MATT: All right. Matt Staub, yeah, I’m here, which doesn’t apply to what we’re talking about today. NASIR: No. MATT: Your go-to is just listing expertise of mine in areas I have, well, I guess, I mean, it has a little bit to do today but not the topic. NASIR: It’s the closest I can get. MATT: Well, I mean, you could say “expert in MySpace.” I feel like that’s closer. NASIR: Okay. MATT: I was looking, you know, we’re going to talk mostly about Facebook – well, mostly about Mark Zuckerberg but do you know the last time we talked in detail about Facebook? Do you remember? This is Episode 241. It’s been a while. NASIR: Maybe one of their acquisitions of Instagram or something? I don’t know. MATT: The one I found when I searched our previous ones was the malicious prosecution lawsuit they were trying to file against DLA Piper who represented that guy who claimed 84 percent ownership of the company who I looked up and now they describe him as “now fugitive businessman.” It hasn’t gone well for him post-lawsuit. NASIR: Did we ever find out what’s happened to that lawsuit? MATT: Well, I just looked, and this was earlier in the year because Facebook filed that malicious prosecution suit against DLA Piper and the judge refused… NASIR: The law firm, yeah. MATT: I think the judge refused to throw it out. NASIR: Okay. So, it looks like the case is going on. MATT: Yeah. NASIR: Yeah, that was an interesting story. MATT: You know, you think about it, and we talk about this all the time but why would Facebook even bother with it at this point? But this is a good example. They need to set the precedent that they’re not going to put up with this stuff. They obviously have the money to handle it. NASIR: Definitely makes a law firm think twice about bringing something like that again. MATT: So, Facebook, you know, there’s a couple of things here and Mark Zuckerberg and it’s been in the news a lot the last couple of weeks and there’s a couple of things. The first was what you had mentioned earlier at the beginning. They had their kid a couple of days ago, I think – earlier this week of recording, right? NASIR: I think it was more than a couple of days but, yeah, definitely recently. MATT: Yeah. And so, he had come out and said that he is going to take a two-month paternal leave, I believe. NASIR: Yeah. MATT: Which is pretty crazy and I believe I saw that the company offers up to four months of paid paternal leave so that’s pretty big. But I think one of the big things a lot of people are discussing is, you know, this is a big step towards acceptance of this sort of leave for the men because I think there’s some sort of stigma attached to men taking time off after the birth of their child. People might look at that in a different way as opposed to the mother who would do it. But I’m sure there’s been many instances of the father who wanted to do this and just felt so obligated that they couldn’t. This is clearly a step in that right direction for more men to do this. NASIR: Yeah. But, at the same time, it’s almost crazy to think that a CEO of a company would be able to take let alone a week even let alone two months off of their job whether it’s a male or a female, right? Obviously, Zuckerberg is probably in a little more unique position. I think all of our status updates will still go through whether Zuckerberg is on the job or not. My assumption is that he’s in a little bit more of a privileged po...

The guys discuss Starbucks firing a deaf employee and what is considered a reasonable accommodation for someone requiring a sign language interpreter. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist. My name is Nasir Pasha and I have a Jolly Rancher in my mouth. MATT: Could have just waited, and I’m Matt Staub, and I’m saying you could have just waited for however long it takes. NASIR: I thought it would be melted by now. MATT: What flavor? NASIR: I don’t know if it melts. It’s sour apple. MATT: Oh. NASIR: I think the best flavor. MATT: The worst, probably. NASIR: Really? That’s the best. It’s the only one I think I really like. MATT: Well, if you ever noticed – actually, I don’t know – maybe the green ones but it seems like every time someone has Jolly Ranchers on their desk or like, when you walk into a building, it’s always grape. No one ever has the grape ones. NASIR: I actually like the grape and the green ones. All the red ones kind of just mash into each other like watermelon and cherry. MATT: Yeah, you can’t decipher one. It’s just red. I mean, it should just be colors – cherry, strawberry, watermelon, raspberry. NASIR: And blue. MATT: Yeah. Blue is usually raspberry, I think. NASIR: Yeah, but blue tastes unnatural – not that any of these others taste natural but… MATT: Well, at least the sour apples are usually green. NASIR: Yeah. MATT: Not that the skin of the apple is produced in the Jolly Ranchers but, yeah, blue raspberry is obviously very unnatural. NASIR: Yeah, exactly. MATT: Not that any of them are very authentically flavored in terms of juice. Anyway, I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about today. Let me make sure. Nope, we’re not. NASIR: Any smooth transition into this? I don’t think so. MATT: No. I mean, there probably is, but I’m not going to even go for it. This is pretty interesting. I don’t know if we’ve ever talked about a sign language related issue before. NASIR: No, and I know we haven’t because, if we did, I would have definitely mentioned that I took a couple of semesters of sign language in college which was awesome. I still know some of the basics so I can kind of eavesdrop on a lot of people’s conversations from a distance which is very rude and taboo. MATT: Why did you take those classes? NASIR: I have no idea. In fact, my wife asked me the same thing. Like, “I don’t know why you took those classes.” I met my wife in a foreign language class so I didn’t need it for a language credit. I think I just did it because I was interested in it. MATT: That’s what I was going to ask because, my wife, they had to take some sort of language class and she opted for sign language but that wasn’t the case with you, I guess. NASIR: No, I’ve taken first year languages – many, many different languages. I’m not fluent in any other language but I’ve taken a lot of first for like one year or so. MATT: You basically can say “my name is…” in every language. NASIR: Precisely. MATT: “How are you?” and then just nothing. NASIR: Correct – which I don’t know which is better – which I would rather be. MATT: Fluent in one. Well, I guess fluent in multiple languages. I assume you’re fluent at least in English. NASIR: Barely. MATT: All right. NASIR: I can say my name then that’s it. I can do an introduction of a podcast. MATT: Ah. Well, anyway, this is a sign language based story we’re talking about which actually falls under disability which we’ll get to but let me tell some back story. This Starbucks in Arizona and I’ve read a couple of different stories on this so I’m going to pull the facts from one of them and, if it happens to be off, then I’ll blame this specific article but there’s a woman that worked at Starbucks from 2007 to 2014. That’s a pretty good amount of time. She was doing sign language from the beginning of 2007 throughout the duration of her employment and so she was working there, no problems.

This is a great conversion story. Dr. Taylor Marshall is the president and founder of the New St. Thomas Institute. But in a previous life he was an Episcopalian priest who found the Lord through a chance encounter with a baseball card. You heard me right...a baseball card. Give it listen and don't forget to please leave the show a rating! God bless! Matt “All who have been lost were lost because they did not pray.” St. Alphonsus Liguori. Don't be lost! Grab your FREE copy of my quick guide to deeper prayer 8 Ways To Jumpstart Your Prayer Life!  It's an easy step-by-step summary of the spiritual giants of the Church designed to help you rocket to God!

Nasir and Matt discuss the EEOC decision that may prohibit gender discrimination before Congress passes its own law. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right. Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: What’s going on, Matt? MATT: Uh, doing pretty well. We’re in the weird phase of San Diego weather where it’s either gloomy or humid or both so it’s unenjoyable… I mean, it’s probably way worse for you. NASIR: I know it rained last week and the only reason I knew it rained is because I got all these pictures as if it was some kind of miracle in San Diego which it practically was, I suppose. MATT: I mean, the rain, that’s pretty rare bit there was lightning and thunder which is extremely rare for San Diego. NASIR: Pretty commonplace here in Houston except I don’t think we’ve had rain in the last thirty days which is… I don’t know if it’s unusual for the time but unusual in general. MATT: Well, I’d still probably take this weather over yours. NASIR: Yeah, I think so. I think that’s established as far as weather – Houston versus San Diego. That’s a good court case. MATT: Houston versus San Diego. They’re suing over… NASIR: Better weather. MATT: All right. Enough of lame legal jokes. We’ve got a pretty interesting topic. NASIR: No, let’s talk about the weather some more, that’s usually a good topic. MATT: Yeah, also a good podcast subject. So, this is a topic that I think is obviously going to get a lot more mention here in the upcoming probably years. Actually, I could see this even being… maybe not this specifically or at least a little bit – this could be a big issue even in like the presidential election coming up – possibly. I don’t know. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. NASIR: Absolutely, I think so. MATT: We’re going to talk about it I guess the employee-employer context. We’re dealing with employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. What that community and other advocates are trying to do is lift this federal prohibition on employment discrimination against the – like I said – based on sexual orientation or gender identity. But there was a recent EEOC – Equal Employment Opportunity Commission – decision that possibly could have already made this a non-issue – or at least some people are saying. Basically it’s saying that this is already illegal on the grounds of Title 7. What this ruling was I think there was a three to two I believe panel decision. It kind of all centers around “the sex” in Title 7. And so, what does that really mean? I think they had mentioned it’s included transgender in the past but that’s kind of what we’re getting to and it’s not interchangeable with sex and gender necessarily but there was a decision that outlaws discrimination on the basis of sex and the panel ruled that the job discrimination against gays violate this against this Title 7 under the Civil Rights Act. I don’t think that made any sense. NASIR: We’ll get it out by automatic translator here. I think, first, to really understand the EEOC’s reasoning, I think you have to kind of take a look at what Title 7 was and Title 7 is a part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and basically it specifically provides that employers cannot discriminate based upon gender but also religion, color, race, national origin. But what’s interesting is that there’s been previous rulings held that even the association thereof of an employee – for example, if the employee is associated with a person of a certain race or color or religion, then you can’t discriminate on that basis. The EEOC takes that same kind of logic and they say, “Well, if the Title 7 does that, then it also applies to gender as well.” So, if you’re associating yourself through your spouse or your partner as a same-sex partner or spouse, then discriminating based upon that same reason is also prohibited.

The guys close out the week by talking about the legal concerns of on-call employees in the retail industry and how states are working on legislature in support of these employees. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist to that news. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: And welcome to the world of the law and business. MATT: The world where we talk about one topic per episode, more or less. NASIR: That’s right. Only Mondays and Wednesdays now though, right? This is our last episode for the week so make sure you guys pace yourselves. MATT: So, will this be…? Oh, no, we’re well before the 4th of July weekend. I’m getting way ahead of myself. NASIR: I know. It’s still June, man. It’s like the middle of June. MATT: We’re on the second, third of June as we’re recording this so it wasn’t incredibly far off. NASIR: Today’s not the second or third of June. MATT: The second one-third of June. NASIR: Oh, second… it’s going to be the second third of the month. MATT: Yes. NASIR: I know how everyone kind of refers to months and to split it up into thirds – that’s one way to do it. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone do that but okay. No, actually, we’re going to be – let’s see – the third sixth of the month, I think, actually. MATT: Yeah, that’s correct. Okay. First time getting something math-related correct on the show. NASIR: Or actually what’s better is I think this episode’s coming out on the 17th 30th of the month. MATT: All right. I’m going to move on to the topic here which I wasn’t even really aware this was going on – probably because I don’t work in retail – but we’ve all heard of on-call shifts, especially for doctors or surgeons – I guess surgeons are doctors – nurses. NASIR: Lawyers – just start naming professions. MATT: Police officers, maybe. NASIR: Firemen. MATT: Firemen, for sure, yes. NASIR: Or women. MATT: But, in retail, there’s a thing that’s apparently legal – or for now somewhat legal. It’s on-call workers. Basically, it’d be someone – there’s a whole slew of different stores that are being accused of this but we’ll just take the first one I see here. So, J. Crew, for example, has a list of the employees they have and they set their schedule for the week and maybe I get my shifts and I’m going to definitely work on Tuesday and Thursday but I’m on-call for Monday, Wednesday, Friday. What that means is I have to call the store close to an hour before – I know I saw two hours so we’ll say at least two hours before – to find out if I’m working that day because I’m scheduled to work from 4:00 to 9:00 but I don’t know until I call in at 2:00 pm which, as you can probably think, this causes a lot of problems for the employees because they can’t really schedule anything else during those times which, going back to the doctors and different professions, yeah, those people get compensated higher based on reasons like that. But, for the people in these retails jobs that might be making minimum wage or a little bit more, this is a huge issue because you can’t work another job. Maybe you want to go to school part-time, you can’t do that because you might have to work on a Wednesday night and when you have class. So, I could see how this would become a huge problem if I was in this position. Were you aware this was so rampant in the retail industry? NASIR: I mean, on one hand, I understood that you could be called in last minute, but this whole concept of you have to actually call in. Like, they described one worker who worked at Bath & Body Works, she was a part-time worker but she would call literally an hour before. This is what she says. She calls an hour before, she lives 25 to 30 minutes away, and then they would put her on hold where she would have to wait to call the store several times before someone would pick up and then she says she would be looking at her watch,

Nasir and Matt discuss the investigative report concerning nail salons andthe abusivetreatmentthat many workers are experiencing. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right. Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and we also add our legal twist to that business news. My name’s Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: And we are two lawyers that have nothing better to do than talk about business and the law. I love it. MATT: You don’t see many lawyers with podcasts, I’ll say that. NASIR: You know, I was thinking, we’ve been doing this for a year – like, more than a year now, I think, right? We missed our anniversary. MATT: We’re closer to two years than one. NASIR: Oh, that’s true because we started in December 2013? MATT: I think it was at least October. NASIR: Oh, really? Okay. Then you’re right. You’re right. But, I don’t know, it’s fun. MATT: Possibly even before that. NASIR: Our listenership is much more than it used to be. I mean, it took a while to get where we are but that’s fun – fun stuff. MATT: Neither one of us is a celebrity so putting something out there is not going to… NASIR: Neither one of us is a celebrity but, collectively, if you add our celebrity status, you know, collectively, I think collectively we’re a celebrity. MATT: There’s a score for that. Everyone’s assigned a score based on your notoriety or presence as a celebrity and it has to do with online. It starts with a “K” I think. NASIR: Is it Q score? MATT: Yes. NASIR: The recognized industry standard for measuring consumer appeal of personalities, characters, licensed properties, programs and brands. Man, I need a Q score. MATT: Yeah. NASIR: Let’s figure out how we can do it. Nasir Pasha… MATT: This is our whole episode of you trying to come into the ultimate conclusion we have low Q scores. NASIR: It says we don’t have any data for me. They just need to update it. Obviously, this is way behind. MATT: All right. Well, we’re going to talk about a few things, one of which really is I say it comes as no surprise but maybe that’s just because we’re more familiar with it than other people but there was a recent piece that came out in the New York Times that did – I don’t know if it was an investigative search but – a detailed story on nail salons and just the abuse that these workers are getting and their treatment at these nail salons. It kind of details all the things that have gone on or that are going on in New York and it’s kind of crazy. Like I said, I mean, you and I were familiar with these things, but even reading through some of these findings, it’s still pretty insane. NASIR: Wait. Wait. How was I familiar with nail salons again? I know you were but… MATT: I thought, well, I don’t know. I guess maybe it was just me. NASIR: I just know everything because of what you tell me in your experiences. MATT: I don’t think I’ve actually ever been to one. NASIR: You just have them come to your house or something? MATT: Not quite but never had any work done on the nails. NASIR: Well, the bottom line in very New York Times-like fashion, they do go into pretty good detail. They talk about even just how many manicure places there are, particularly in New York City. If you compare it to cities like Chicago, Los Angeles, and Boston, of the maps that I’m looking at, and just the concentration in New York City is just a little bit different and it’s because of the cultural association with the Vietnamese nail salons and I think that has a lot to do with it. MATT: Well, yeah, I mean, in this story here, they even talk about a cultural hierarchy or a racial hierarchy. A lot of these shops are owned by Koreans. NASIR: Okay. MATT: This is the racial hierarchy as is described – Korean, China, and then non-Asian. That’s kind of the hierarchy of these places and I guess that it is what it is and I’m not surprised there’s any sort of racial discrimination going on just based on the other things that have happened....

Draft expert Matt Waldman (@MattWaldman) creator of the Rookie Scouting Portfolio and contributor at Football Guys and Football Outsiders joins the show to take go in depth on who the Vikings may be targeting in the draft at the end of the month. Our Minnesota Fightin' Vikings have many options at the #11 pick, aren't hurting for a clear cut need, still could move Adrian Peterson, and we all know Slick Rick Spielman's propensity to make moves in the first round. On the clock talking points include:• Studio is officially titled the "Ramos McDonald Lounge"• Vikings News• Romo restructures. Conflicting reports of Adrian to the Cowboys• I think Spielman has an Adrian deal in place• Greg Jennings April Fool• Vikings sign Mike Kafka, Caesar "Dressing" Rayford, and a Long Snapper• Offseason Schedule announced• Harrison Smith extended. Nope• Interview with Matt Waldman• The work that goes into the Rookie Scouting Portfolio• Where did he have Teddy ranked coming in? • What about McKinnon and Cordarrelle?• The Vikings' options at #11• Kevin White vs Amari Cooper vs DaVante Parker• Eric Kendricks vs Shaq Thompson• Brandon Scherff vs La'el Collins• Trae Waynes vs Marcus Peters• Todd Gurley vs Melvin Gordon• Late first round target Spielman may trade back in for• David Cobb vs David Johnson vs Jay Ajayi vs Ameer Abdullah• Late Round Sleepers: Brandon Bridge, Shane Carden, Zach Zenner, Darius Davis• Why small school prospects get missed• Jameis Winston is like Eli Manning• Matt's STONE COLD HOT TAKE (2)• The Gauntlet• Super Sleeper: Kenny Bell• Your Twitter questions• I'm starting a change.org petition for a Waffle House in the Twin Cities• Zane Clemendale - TE - Albuquerque A&T• What to look for coming up from MattAll that and other "tell me more about the beauty of Teddy Bridgewater" on this edition of the Purple FTW! Podcast!An Andy Carlson Joint.Follow us on Twitter @PurpleForTheWinVisit the Website: purpleftw.comSubscribe to Podcast on iTunes: purpleftw.com/itunesWe're also on Stitcher! purpleftw.com/stitcherMusic for the Purple FTW! podcast is    created by & produced by deeB.To hear more of his tracks, check

The guys kick off the week by explaining the issues with employers requiring their employees to pay fortheir own uniforms. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right. Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist to these stories for your benefit and your benefit only – for no one else. Welcome to the program and my name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: I just wanted to make sure that we’re paying very specific attention to you, the listener, right now. I’m talking about you – the one that’s listening right now with their headphones – yeah, you, this is for you. MATT: So, this is what? Monday — well, Monday, sometime Monday, assuming you listen to it on the day it comes out. It’s nice to have someone focus on you on a Monday. So, I think our listeners are very appreciative of this nice gesture that we’re doing for them and I think it’s going to be a good week. If you just listen to this, the Farmers Insurance Open has ended, assuming there hasn’t been another fog delay like there was on Thursday and it got pushed to Monday. NASIR: Didn’t that happen last year too? Or two years ago? MATT: I know this because I went on the Saturday two years ago. NASIR: Yeah, we both went. MATT: Oh, yeah, we did. There was a rain delay. Like, a couple of people got on the course and that was it. They had to push the last day till Monday so it threw everybody off. NASIR: I don’t know if you went with us that time. Remember Chris Merrill? MATT: Yeah. NASIR: Was with us from KOGO? Good times in San Diego. MATT: Well, I think what happened was you and I went with separate groups and we tried to meet up and then I think you just ended up leaving because of the rain. NASIR: Yeah, I think I stole Tiger Woods’ ball and ran away or something. I can’t remember. MATT: Yeah. Well, he’s out. He withdrew after twelve holes or something yesterday because he’s hurt. NASIR: That’s pretty much my golfing game in a sentence. MATT: All right. Well, what do we have today? I think we have something pretty interesting for people. NASIR: That’s new. MATT: Especially if they are on their way to work and wearing a uniform because we’re going to talk about employees that have to pay for their uniforms. It’s an interesting thing. Have you ever – well, I guess (1) have you ever had a job where you’ve had to wear a uniform? If not, then you don’t answer the question but (2) like, I’ve had plenty of different uniforms of businesses, I’ve never had to actually pay for anything in the past. NASIR: The only real job that I could, in theory, would have had a uniform was I sold cellular phones for T-Mobile for a little during law school, but I don’t even think they cared what you wore. But, of course, you’d want to look somewhat presentable to the potential customers. MATT: Yeah, that’s a good point. NASIR: That’s pretty much it. No uniforms on my end. MATT: Is that when you had to dress up as a giant phone? NASIR: Yeah, that was my uniform. I had some balloons as well and hold a sign. MATT: Sign spinning. Well, in California, if the employer requires the employee to wear a uniform, the employer has to pay the cost of the uniform. I mean, in California, it’s pretty straight-forward and I guess I need to define uniform so I haven’t been very good at that. It’s apparel and accessories of distinctive design and color. One of the things I had to wear one time was almost like an apron, but it wasn’t an apron – I guess it was an apron – I don’t know. That would be an example. Or all the items of flare that I didn’t have to purchase when I worked at Chachkies. NASIR: Yeah, that’s a great example, nice office space reference. So, the Department of Labor have some guidelines on, basically, if you require the employee to wear a uniform then the employer is going to have to cover the cost. But where it becomes a little more difficult is exactly where Matt mentioned is what exactly is a uniform and when does that actu...

Nasir and Matt talk about expandingemail usage for employees to include non-work purposes. They then answer the question, "How do I get out of a lease? We have been there for years, but our lease is ending in two. We originally signed a guarantee, but we didn't in our renewal, so I'm willing to possibly walk away if we can stop ourselves from personal liability? In NorCal." Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right. Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business and I’ve already messed up the intro again. Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: Matt Staub is joining us, nice. I love it. MATT: You know, when you say the actual name of the podcast, that doesn’t mean you messed it up but… NASIR: Well, yeah, that’s true. But, as we’ve discussed many times before, if I say the name of the podcast, then it’s like, why do we even have an intro to our intro? I guess… should we just start talking and not even have an intro? MATT: Make it a choose-your-own-adventure so the audience can choose which way they want to go. NASIR: That would be awesome. MATT: I don’t know if that’s possible to do. Probably not. NASIR: Oh, someday with audio and you can integrate it. I think we should implement that. MATT: Well, Friday episode, I guess this is relevant because what do employees do on a Friday other than use their work email for personal reasons, right? NASIR: I was going to say, other than spying on your employees and going through your employees’ emails. MATT: Yeah, I don’t use my work email for personal reasons. Maybe, like, two percent of the time when people accidentally email me on the wrong one, but I keep mine separate, especially with technology these days. NASIR: It’s so easy to do so, right? MATT: Yeah, I mean, on your phone… Actually, I don’t check my personal email. I’ll usually check it in the morning and, like, around noon, and then not till I’m done for the day because I never really get anything that important in my personal email so I just don’t want to get distracted with nonsense. NASIR: In my Gmail account, I have both my work email and my personal email going there, so I do happen to, once in a while, like you said, someone sends something to my work email and that’s the only time that you don’t separate it. MATT: All right, and I think that’s our episode. NASIR: That’s our episode. Thank you for joining us. MATT: Email tips. So, what we’re dealing with is, it’s what decisioned by the National Labor Relations Board, basically saying that employees who have been given access to their employer’s email system, that those employees can then use that email for non-business purposes. You know, the big thing in this one was union organization was a possibility that these employees could use the work email for but I look at it as, for a range of non-business purposes, these employees can now use their work email which should be pretty interesting to see how employers deal with this. NASIR: Yeah, the NLRA which is a board that has been charged with dealing with some union disputes but also unfair employer practices as well. So, it’s not often that they do have a limited scope but they do have some kind of wide-reaching effect sometimes with some of their decisions, especially in this case where the implications for employers are such that, now, you can’t do an outright ban or non-work use of the email system which can be interesting because a lot of people are like, “Okay, just use the email for work purposes only,” but now they’re saying that there’s a certain statutory protected communication that cannot be restricted during non-work time so long as there’s no – how do they put it? MATT: Creates a danger of server overload or damage from excessive use. NASIR: Yeah, that was a specific example,

Nasir and Mattrelive their top moments from 2014. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Happy New Year! Welcome to our Best of 2014 episode of Legally Sound Smart Business! Welcome to our show! My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. I guess you didn’t need me to be here. You could have done this by yourself but it’s all right. Thanks for having me. NASIR: Actually, I didn’t even know you were here. That’s really weird. So, yeah, so we’ve had a huge year; a lot of legal issues that we covered. I think Matthew, our audio producer, has a nice surprise for you guys to put together a few nice little clips for this Best of 2014 episode. MATT: Yeah, it should be a good one. I’m not sure right now as we’re recording what those “best of” are going to be but, really, all of them are good in my opinion so you can’t really go wrong. NASIR: Well, what’s interesting is the actual Best of 2014 is just going to be one long audio file of all the episodes put together. It’s going to be like a 20- or 30-hour episode but probably more than that. MATT: Yeah, it’d be more than that, I would think. I don’t think you could have a podcast file that large. NASIR: Well, enjoy your week of listening and we’ll be back in a few days. MATT: Yeah. Keep it sound and keep it smart. [PARTY HORN] MATT: Let’s get right into it this week. There’s a story that came out. It’s going to be very interesting what happens with this and it’s going to be good news for some business owners. NASIR: Yeah, I think it’s huge. MATT: Yeah, and I can’t remember anything like this happening before. It was a lawsuit involving Yelp. It was in Virginia. There’s a company that had all these negative reviews and I believe they’re also anonymous reviews so the people didn’t say who they were and, essentially, there was a lawsuit that happened and Yelp was required to turn over the information of those so-called anonymous reviews which, like I said, this is going to be a big precedent. It’ll be interesting to see what happens. This was in Virginia but it will be really interesting to see what happens in other states and, just, if anything follows up with an appeal. NASIR: This is where you have anonymous reviewers that are posting information about your business that not only is false but is suspected to be completely your competitors or something. MATT: Right. NASIR: This is a carpet cleaning business and they think that this is a competitor that is going on this website and posting these bad reviews about them. Keep in mind, people that are listening though, this is a Virginia lawsuit. This was a public court decision. MATT: Yeah, this was done by the Court of Appeals. NASIR: So, to understand what that means, unless you’re in the state of Virginia, that is not going to apply to you, but it is going to be persuasive authority in the sense that it could be used to help your argument in your respective state. And, also, keep in mind, I noticed that the basis of their lawsuit was a statute that was passed in Virginia which there are other states that have a similar statute which talks about basically anonymous posting and, if there’s a tortious or illegal communication, then the burden of proof going through First Amendment rights and so forth is lessened if it’s an anonymous post online. So, even if your case is similar but if you’re not in a state that has a similar statute, it may not even work. MATT: All right, let’s get into the first question this week, and this comes from a start-up in New York City. “I was in a start-up competition where random teams were assembled. We didn’t win but still wanted to move forward. How do we determine who owns what?” I’m assuming they are talking about ownership of the entity – well, I guess they don’t have an entity yet – of the business of whatever they put together. NASIR: Well, probably not, right? They misspelled the word “forward” so I’m sure they didn’t think about that as well.

The guys end the week by talking about an international crowdfunding site getting censured by the SEC. They also answer, "I live in California but my LLC is setup in another state. At what point am I doing business in California?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right, welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I’m Matt Staub. NASIR: That’s right, and we are covering probably the most entertaining topic, I think, known to man – not pizza, but SEC censures. MATT: Well, I don’t know. If people are listening to these in order, the last thing we just got done talking about was tax. NASIR: Oh, yeah. MATT: People really hate that stuff. I like it, but… NASIR: That was the last episode and we lost, basically, I’m already predicting, like, the stats just… everyone just stopped listening after that point. So, that’s okay. We covered the San Diego Magazine and that’s still going on. MATT: Yeah, we should get a trademark for “Hidden San Diego” for podcasts. NASIR: If we get as much controversy as they did, it’d be a great hit for us. MATT: All right. Well, like I said, this is a crowdfunding site. I assume it’s Eureka Capital SPC. NASIR: Uh, yeah. MATT: Eureka Capital. NASIR: I was thinking, like, yeah, Eureka… Oregon or Washington? I can’t remember which. I think it’s Washington. MATT: Oregon. NASIR: Oregon. MATT: Washington. I don’t know. NASIR: They’re basically the same state. MATT: There’s a Eureka, California, up north. NASIR: Well, it doesn’t matter. They’re spelled differently and not in the northwest. MATT: So, the reason it was spelled differently is because it’s incorporated outside the United States. NASIR: Yeah. MATT: So, I think that’s why, and that’s pertinent to this because, according to the SEC which is the South Eastern Conference which is a big football powerhouse conference for those listening. NASIR: Ah, that’s right. Also, called the Securities and Exchange Commission, I believe. MATT: That’s also true. NASIR: Yeah. MATT: Apparently, the way this was set up, they’re not allowed to have investors come from the United States. So, the way they prevented US investors from coming in was asking them, you know, there’s a disclaimer saying, “No US individuals can invest” and they had a thing saying that but then, if you went to register, one of the options was the United States and then you were able to register and invest. So, obviously, that’s a problem. It’s like, if you went to a brewery website and it says, “No one can be on this site unless you’re 21 or older,” then you put in some information for 1998 as your birthday and they still let you in. Or, I guess, if you went to a bar and you’re like, “Oh, I’m not 21,” and it’s like, “All right! Come on in then!” NASIR: Come on in! Yeah, that’s actually a pretty good analogy I would say, and the reason this is an issue is because SEC is obviously designed to restrict the sale of securities and, you know, whether you’re selling equity in your company or what-have-you raising funds, whatever you offer has to be regulated by them. In complying with that regulation, it’s not too easy for most companies – depending upon how much you’re raising – when a third party gets involved and getting a percentage, you know, acting basically as a broker dealer, that’s also prohibited unless you’re licensed and doing it properly. I think, in this case, they were set up in the Cayman Islands – that’s kind of suspicious in itself – and, even though they weren’t publicly targeting United States citizens, it seems like it was pretty accessible to them and it reminds me of the online gambling thing, right? Wasn’t there a time where all the legal gambling was a dot-net but then the illegal ones was dot-com or vice versa and, technically, you weren’t allowed to do so from the US side but they w...

Nasir and Matt start the week by discussing Ohio State University suing a t-shirt company for trademark infringement and unfair competition after t-shirts were sold with school names, logos, and slogans. They then answer, "Many years ago we bought up a bunch of trademarks for potential names for new product lines. Someone approached us to buy one we didn't use. Is it possible to sell the trademark?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right, welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. And my name is Nasir Pasha, and I am the host of Legally Sound Smart Business. And, joined with me as a co-host for the second time, I believe… MATT: I guess that’s me – Matt Staub. I thought I was going to be a featured player this week, but that’s all right; co-host is fine. NASIR: No, you are now a co-host. It’s the second episode that you’ve been a co-host. MATT: Well, this is exciting. NASIR: Not really, but second, yeah. So, it’s 117 episodes of you being a guest, and now you’re an official co-host. MATT: Well, I don’t know who to thank. Glad to be here! NASIR: Thank the people. Thank the people. MATT: It would be interesting if you had a different co-host every single time. NASIR: I know; I wish I did. MATT: Ah, that kind of hurts. NASIR: I didn’t mean any offense for you. I just, in general, think it would be a good idea to not have you on. MATT: Fair enough. Well, speaking of not liking things, we’re going to talk about a place I don’t like to leave this off and that’s, as they like to call it, the Ohio State University. NASIR: The Ohio State University. MATT: Which you’re familiar with. NASIR: Yeah, I almost went there for my undergrad. MATT: Oh, you did? NASIR: Okay, yeah. MATT: I did not because I don’t like Ohio State but how close were you to Columbus? NASIR: About an hour west. MATT: Okay. So, yeah, I imagine everyone there is a huge Ohio State fan. NASIR: Most definitely. But, for some reason, there are a lot of people from Michigan, too. So, it’s like, whenever you went to those big games at someone’s house, there’d be, like, a third of the people wearing yellow. MATT: It’s actually “maize” is the color but it’s all right. We’ll let that slide. NASIR: Maize? MATT: Yeah, their color’s officially maize – some sort of navy blue and maize. But, yeah, that’s the color of their yellow. Anyways… NASIR: That’s amazing. Hey! MATT: All right, that’s good. So, we’re talking about Ohio State in a battle with an online t-shirt company. The title is pretty creative – “Ohio State tries to buck online t-shirt company.” They’re they Buckeyes. NASIR: I got that. MATT: I like a good Monday morning pun. So, I’m sure this happens with a lot of universities but this one’s a little bit different. It’s online so it’s not like it’s somewhere that’s on the campus or in Columbus necessarily, I guess. So, the company is Teespring Inc. and basically Ohio State says they’re using unlicensed versions of Ohio State’s trademarks, logos, buckeye leaves, pictures of Urban Meyer who is their football coach, the chant they have, and I guess this business is doing well. Another thing too is Ohio State’s definitely known for being one of the bigger following, huge stadium. They obviously make a ton of money so they probably make a significant amount of money on that as well so I can see why they’re a little bit upset. NASIR: Yeah. It’s one of the biggest campuses, for sure. I mean, I’ve been there. It’s huge. It’s like its own city within Columbus. MATT: Yeah. NASIR: Well, you’ve heard of Teespring, right? I mean, there’s these other companies out there, too. But, basically, it’s a t-shirt printing company where you literally upload your art then you can sell it to other people and then Teespring gets a percentage of it. And so, it’s a good way to raise money for non-profits.

The guys kick off the week by discussingthe new requirement for California businesses to provide identity theft solution services after data breaches. They then answer the question, "We developed some IP for clients and could not decide on who owns the IP. As a result, we decided to jointly own it. Should I be worried about the client if they go under or get sued?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: All right. Welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And I'm Matt Staub. NASIR: Matthew Staub is joining us once again today to our Legally Sound Smart Business podcast. Very fun. MATT: Happy to be back. 104th straight of episode for me being the guest. So, until you have somebody better, I guess it'll just be me. NASIR: I'm just waiting to see if we can get some positive response from our listeners. Still waiting for that to make sure you become a permanent part of the show. MATT: Over a hundred episodes. It had to have been over a year now at this point too, right? I'm trying to remember. NASIR: No, it hasn’t been quite a year yet, but I just wish someone would give – I mean, instead of all the negative feedback I get for you, I just wish somebody would just give one positive comment – just one would be good enough, you know? MATT: All bad? NASIR: Yeah, it’s been all bad, but I love the feedback. We get a ton of feedback – a ton – but just all negative about you. So, that's okay. MATT: Ugh. I'll work on it, I guess. This will be the episode, I think this is the one I’m going to turn people on, and what's a better way to do it than talking about data breaches? That’s an exciting topic that everyone wants to hear about. NASIR: Yeah, agreed. MATT: This is California, once again, kind of being the, I guess, early adopter- the first ones to really step forward and do this. So, a little bit of background, in 2002, they were the first state I believe to require businesses to notify people affected of data breaches which seems ridiculous now that, prior to 2002, you could just have data breaches as a business and not tell anyone. It seems pretty important but I guess, over ten years ago, things were a lot different but still that's far enough in time where they should have been telling people beforehand. But, anyways, now California is going to be the first one again to require businesses to provide free identity theft prevention services to people affected by a data breach. It’s credit monitoring in fraud resolution services. I think it span in one year in length. I don’t know if this just the way this is worded or if it only does apply to California residents, but it's at no cost to California residents. I would think it might expand further than just people from California but I don’t know. It’s a little bit vague on how that works out. NASIR: Well, what it does mean is, if you are operating even outside California and some of these data breaches affect California residents,, then you may be subject to this law, but I'd like to look into more on how that actually can be implemented because you know there are aspects of states rights vs federal rights whether states can actually regulate interstate activity and especially if you're not actually necessarily operating in that state but may have customers in that state, it might be a different issue. But, you know, you mentioned California taking the lead on this and that's one really cool thing about being a licensed lawyer in California because we operate in different states around the country and one thing about California is that they are always on the forefront with many different laws and they do set trends and they do set items that sometimes don’t work and other states don’t follow because basically they look to California to see how it can work out. MATT: You're right.

The guys kick off the week by discussing the Red Bull lawsuit over false advertising. They then answer, "My employees are receiving small tips on credit card receipts and we get hit with a processing fee each time. Can we deduct the fee from our employees' tips?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: This is Matt Staub. NASIR: Welcome to the business legal podcast that covers business in the news and also answers some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, could ask a question at ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. MATT: Oh. NASIR: By sending in an email address. MATT: Terrible intro. NASIR: Actually, the intro was good, but the conclusion of the intro was a little faulty. MATT: It’s all right. I mean, there’s a little bit of leeway on Monday so I’m not going to hold it against you. NASIR: True, just getting warmed up. MATT: I shouldn’t give you the leeway because this isn’t being recorded on a Monday morning but people are listening to it on a Monday morning so maybe they’re not firing on all cylinders. They won’t even notice how bad that intro was – other than the fact that I’ve gone on about it for another minute. NASIR: People are still trying to figure out if it’s Monday or not. I’m still trying to figure that out at least. MATT: All right. Well, actually, we’ve got a good story that’ll help people wake up I guess indirectly – a lawsuit involving Red Bull – more accurately, a false advertising lawsuit. There’s a possible settlement, that’s not as important but basically it boiled down to this. It was a false advertising claim. I think everyone knows what Red Bull is, it’s an energy drink. NASIR: It gives you wings. MATT: Yeah, it gives you wings which does sound like false advertising right there, but the actual false advertising claim was it provided more benefits to consumers than a cup of coffee or a caffeine pill. And so, basic arguments – breach of express warranty, unjust enrichment, violation of other acts, things of that nature. I guess the moral of the story is, for any business, you have to watch out what you assert in terms of what your product or service can do for the customer. NASIR: Yeah, also note that they’re alleged to have violated 30 different state consumer protection acts and we have a lot of clients and a lot of businesses sell their products and services – they also spell their products and services – they sell it on a nationwide basis and, though the consumer protection acts are pretty similar in the sense that what they intend to protect, there are differences. For example, California and New York are inherently more consumer-friendly than some of these other states. At the end of the day, especially when you’re selling on a national, you need to think about being very conservative of how you’re selling your product. What were their statements as far as what was told to be false? MATT: I don’t know the exact quote but more benefits than a cup of coffee or a caffeine pill which I used to drink Red Bull a lot back in college but, if you’ve ever looked at the actual liquid or tasted it, there’s no possible way it’s going to be more beneficial than coffee. I mean, I don’t know about a caffeine pill but it just doesn’t seem natural. It has that Taurine in it which is supposedly very bad for you, so they say. NASIR: Every time I drink it, it literally tastes like toxic waste to me. I feel like I’m drinking some chemicals. And the fact that it says that they provided more benefits compared to a cup of coffee and caffeine pill, that implies that Red Bull has benefits. It seems awkward to say that for some reason to me. MATT: Yeah, and have you seen – and this is fresh on my mind because I watched the beginning of it the other day – the movie Role Models? The two main guys, their job – at least in the beginning – is going around, speaking at schools, talking about energy drinks.

Nasir and Matt kick off the week by talking about Uber's deceptive tactics against Lyft. They also answer the question, "I recently incorporated in California, but when I tried to file for a DBA, my name was taken. Should I be concerned about this?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt… NASIR: And I’m Matt Staub – oh. MATT: You’re both people today. Well, I’m Matt Staub, but you can be both of us if you can emulate my voice. NASIR: And we’re both Matt Staub and welcome to the business podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist and also answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. MATT: All right. Well, I’m going to jump into it and I tease this a little bit if anyone follows me on Twitter that we were going to talk about this again because one of our favorite topics – or maybe not “favorite” but one of our most talked about topics – is Uber and it looks like they’re at it again. I think this is the most interesting story we’ve talked about with them. Basically, there’s been some investigative work by Lyft. For those of you that don’t know, Uber and Lyft are both essentially taxi cab-like services, more or less. So, Uber, what they’ve been doing over the last couple of years is ordering and cancelling rides through Lyft and a lot of them have been to Uber employees that have been doing it. They say roughly 5,000 rides from Lyft have been ordered and cancelled. You would think, you know, “Why would they do this?” It’s basically just to eat up Lyft’s time so they can’t take other rides because, supposedly, if someone would be deciding between the two, I guess, if you tried to get a Lyft and it was really backed up, you would just go to Uber. I only use Uber so I don’t know but I guess I know people that use both so maybe it’s whichever one is most available. Anyways, they’ve been doing that which is obviously an issue. And then, two, Uber employees have been requesting short rides via the Lyft drivers and, more or less, have been trying to convince them to switch over to Uber. That’s just a couple of things that have been going on. NASIR: We were thinking about covering this earlier. This has been happening for a while now. There’s been a lot of stories about Uber’s very aggressive marketing tactics – both here and abroad – and, of course, there’s also the legal issues with the taxi cab industry, with whether they need to be licensed or not in particular cities, and that’s a separate issue. But one thing I noticed is that, this issue with Lyft, it’s not unique to that. Even the city of Seattle had issues with how they were marketing. They were gluing up stickers and flyers up on so-called city property and that would otherwise require a permit so they weren’t too happy about that. what I do notice, though, in most cases, especially with this whole cancelling of Lyft and so forth and trying to convince Lyft drivers to join up to Uber, they’re specifically trying to stay on the legal line of things in the sense that they’re getting right to the edge. I mean, there are laws about unfair business practices, and even dealing with competitors, but usually those unfair business practices are for protections of the consumer. Right now, it’s kind of crappy what they may be doing, but I don’t see a lot of legal liability there when it comes to it. What do you think? MATT: Yeah, and that’s what we’re going to get down to – the legal side of it. Unfortunately, you’re right. I will say one thing about Uber; they’ve really done their research – not just with this but in general – and they’ve really pushed the legal limits of what they can do and I think they even had a statement come out saying, “We recruit hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs to build their own small businesses on the Uber platform where the economic opportunity for drivers is unmatched ...

The guys discuss Fixed, the company that fights parking tickets in San Francisco. They also answer "In our industry a few competitors have very very vague patents. For example one has patented "exit intent" technology that pops up something when a user is about to leave a website. This feature essentially can be replicated in a few lines of code. Do patents like this hold up in court? Especially when there's lots of prior art? Should these patents prevent us from innovating or should we ignore them? Should we consider patenting our own vague features?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: Matthew Staub joining us today. Welcome to our business podcast that we cover business legal news and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. MATT: I guess, if someone’s listening to this for the first time, they will not realize that I have been on the previous 73 episodes as well. NASIR: As a guest, right? MATT: As a guest. It’s the intro of Saturday Night Live where you have the actual cast members and then the featured players. I just got the bump up to the actual podcast host. I was a featured player for 73 episodes. NASIR: No, you’ve been downgraded to just a guest. You were a co-host. Now, you’re just going to be a guest from now on. MATT: All right, that’s fair. NASIR: Sorry to inform you in this method but it was the best way I could think of and I think we should do a new service. Like, if we want to do a demotion or firing of someone, if one of our listeners wants to do that, they can send in the name of the person and have them listen to the podcast and we’ll do it on-air for them. MATT: That’s like George Clooney’s business that he worked for in “Up in the Air” where he would travel around the country firing people. NASIR: Yeah. Well, new service. MATT: Which, I mean, I guess that would probably actually exist somewhere at least, right? NASIR: Well, if anyone knows one, we’ve been trying to find a guest like that because we’ve talked about terminations in the workplace are one of the hardest things for a business owner to do – not only because it’s difficult to actually logistically do it but, also, it poses a lot of liability. And so, finding someone that has experience in that, that’d be great. If so, if anyone knows anyone, that’d be great. MATT: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, there are a lot of things you need to be careful with. A lot of people would probably be fine with it but I would assume there are managers out there who don’t want to do it and they’ll probably bring in someone outside. That’s got to be the worst for an employee. You’re getting fired and your boss doesn’t even… He can’t even come in and fire you themselves. It’s pretty ridiculous. I wouldn’t be happy. NASIR: Not to extend this off-topic but it reminds me of one of the very early episodes of The Office where Mike the boss is supposed to fire one. MATT: Yeah. NASIR: Not only does he fire somebody and then takes it back and then he brings someone else in and then considers taking it back and then doesn’t want to take it back because he just took it back with somebody else. That was a great episode. MATT: Yeah, it’s pretty good. Actually, for those of you who stuck with it all the way through in the last season – well, after Michael Scott leaves – Dwight actually hires back that guy who got fired in that episode. Devon, I think, is the name. NASIR: Really? MATT: Yeah. NASIR: I didn’t see that. MATT: Yeah. Well, it was towards the very end. I think it might have been one of the last couple of episodes when Dwight took over. He’s like, “Yeah, actually, I hired Devon back,” or whatever his name was. A nice little callback. Yeah, because that was in the first season and one of the first episodes. NASIR: Yeah, it was in the first season. I’ll have to check that out.

Nasir and Matt kick things off by discussing the Airbnb squatter who refuses to leave the condo he rented. They then answer the question, "Can my website be sued for publishing public records?" Update: apparently the Airbnb squatter may haveraised some $40,000 on crowdfunding platform Kickstarter for a video game that never materialized, leaving scores of angry donors in their wake. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: And welcome to the business podcast where we cover business in the news and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can submit to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com and, if it’s a really short question, as Matt pointed out last week, you can send to your Twitter account @askbizlaw. MATT: I think the question we have for this episode is definitely short enough. It wasn’t sent through Twitter but it would work so we might just write it in Twitter just so it’s in there but, yeah, it’s always good. It’s hard to write any sentence in under 140 characters but it’s doable. NASIR: That’s why I don’t even do it. I just keep writing and it gets cut off. MATT: It’s a challenge. Sometimes, when I’m trying to write a tweet, it gets pretty difficult. You have to abbreviate things, cut words out. NASIR: It’s a whole mess – that whole concept. MATT: All right. Well, we have a pretty interesting story here for this episode and we’ve talked about Airbnb and we’ve talked about it a few times and we talked about it pretty recently, too. We’re not going to talk about – well, we might actually end up talking about their awful logo but we’re going to talk about what happened here in California. For those of you who aren’t familiar with Airbnb, it’s basically a way to rent out space in the spot that you live. It’s kind of like a hotel in that sense but not like a hotel in terms of regulation or that’s arguable. Anyway, this person rented out their condo. She rented out her condo in California and I guess she did it for 30 days. The guy rented it out, 30 days. She’s like, “All right, it’s come to an end.” He basically is saying, “No, I’m not going to leave. At this point, it’s been 30 days. I’m entitled to certain rights in California and I’m just going to sit here until you evict me.” NASIR: Ah. MATT: Pretty awful situation for her. She’s just trying to make some money on the side. Yeah, California. Unfortunately, that’s just kind of the legal procedure and she is going to have to go through some sort of eviction process if she wants to get him out of her condo. NASIR: Yeah, this is a total nightmare or horror story. I really think that this owner had no idea that this would even be a possibility. But what’s more important is that the person that moved in seemed to have every idea that this was going to happen because who would think that, like, okay, they’re staying for a month and you overstay and you know your legal rights that your power is going to get cut off. You’re like, “No, you can’t; if you do, that’s a violation and you have to actually go through the eviction process.” I mean, that’s just terrible. MATT: I call these people backseat lawyers – like there’s backseat drivers. A lot of times, it’s people that think they knows these laws and they’re actually wrong or misinformed. In this case, the guy had done his researched and he knew he could get away with this for I think there’s up to even three months this could drag out. He’s basically going to be staying there. It’s a pretty unfortunate situation for her. Like I said, she has to go through the court process. She has to evict him from her place that she owns just because of the length of the stay that he had there. NASIR: Yeah, and that’s what I’m wondering about – Airbnb’s side. They graciously gave the money back that whatever money that Airbnb collected from the owner, she was able to get some of it back at least – if not all.

Nasir and Matt talk about the recent Yahoo sexual harassment claim involving two women and answer, "Why is it that manufacturers refrain from mentioning one another in their advertisements (eg. "Tide cleans better than these other brands - bunch of white bottles with no labels")? This is observed with, well, basically every niche of the commercial market, with two exceptions I've regularly noticed, Pepsi vs. Coke and cars." Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: And this is our business legal podcast where we cover business in the news and also answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com and also follow our Twitter account where you can also ask questions @askbizlaw. I want to say “askbizlaw.com” but it’s just “askbizlaw.” MATT: I don’t think we have that one. NASIR: Twitter. MATT: Yeah. NASIR: We probably have the dot-pizza one. MATT: Are you asking people to send their questions via Twitter? NASIR: Yeah, that’d be cool. MATT: That’s tough – limited number of characters. NASIR: That’s true. I didn’t even think about that but we’re also accepting questions on Reddit. That was cool. We do that every week. We do an AMA. I have lots of options for you. If you have a short question, Twitter is good for it. MATT: They’ll have to find out who we are on Reddit, I guess. It should be pretty obvious. NASIR: Search “Legally Sound Smart Business” and then we should come up. MATT: All right. Well, we have a pretty interesting story for today because it deals with a lot of different things going on. It’s a Yahoo executive. She and Yahoo in general are being sued by a former principal software engineer for sexual harassment and wrongful termination. Now, we’ve talked about similar things in the past but it’s typically been a male superior and the lawsuit’s been brought by a female – I don’t want to say… NASIR: Inferior. Uh, subordinate. MATT: A female employee. Now, we have a female executive or superior and also a female employee. That’s a little bit different. Also, typically, with these there’d be some sort of reaction from the company. Yahoo is just straight up denying any of this happening and is very strong in their stance. NASIR: Yeah, that seems unusual. MATT: Yeah, I won’t get into the specifics of this unless you want to, but we’ll link the article so they can read because there’s a lot of accusations made. This also is taking place in another country, too, I believe, right? NASIR: I don’t think so. I thought it was still in California. I know the suit’s in California so I assumed it’s in California but maybe not. We’ll take a look. But, you know, what’s interesting about this is, well, first of all, again, Silicon Valley is another scandal when it comes to the workplace environment. We covered Tinder. There’s this other case with a Google executive who overdosed on heroine on his yacht and some kind of killing as well. Silicon Valley is just being hit with a lot of issues right now. But I think what people may find significant – and this isn’t the first time that it’s happened – it’s when you have a female supervisor that’s being accused of this. I think people need to understand that these issues, when it comes to sexual harassment and wrongful termination, they stem from having power over another. That’s the main issue and that’s the main concept of employment law protections because, when you have an employee, they’re in your control as opposed to an independent contractor where the control is a little bit more loose. But, when you have an employee, because of that control, you have certain obligations that you may not have as a non-employer and I think, even though people generally understand this, they may not understand the significance and how much they could become liable, especially in California, for things like these. MATT: Yeah,

Nasir and Matt talk about Airbus's strategy to patent everything, including bicycle seats. They also answer, "Hi guys. I'm thinking of creating a university professor rating website just like RateMyProfessors.com but for my country (Lebanon). Can I do that? It's not gonna be an exact replica. Some things will be different. Do I need to take permission from RMP to do this? What about the universities? Now, I'm thinking about ways to keep it clean and moderated, but how legal is it for me to create a sort of medium to judge professors? Thanks." Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome! This is Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: And welcome to our podcast where we cover business in the news and add our legal twist and also answer some of your business legal questions that you can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com but also we have a Twitter account now but I don’t know what it is. Actually, I do. You would think it’s, like, @legallysoundsmartbusiness, but I think it’s too long. So, I had to get @askbizlaw so you can tweet us there for questions as well. MATT: @Askbizlaw, yeah. Looking at it right now. NASIR: We have a total of three followers and they encompass myself and Matt and Pasha Law. Wow. Nice start of that. MATT: It’s also following the same three people. NASIR: Yeah, exactly. That’s a good start. MATT: It is brand new and you didn’t even tell me about it. I just saw it because it was following me. NASIR: That’s true. MATT: We haven’t really promoted it at all. NASIR: This is the first time. MATT: Yeah, we can’t even expect anyone to find it without us telling them beforehand. NASIR: I didn’t even want to mention it in the podcast just in case it blew up. Twitter would kick us out for how many followers we would get. So, I was just kind of reluctant about that. MATT: Yeah, it’s done that with other people. NASIR: Yeah, don’t follow us right away – stream it out over the course of time if you would. Thanks. MATT: All right, let’s get into the story that we have for today. This deals with Airbus and I’m not really that familiar with Airbus. I mean, I looked into it a little bit after reading the article but the story here is that they’re seeking a patent for bicycle seats in the cabins. People hate flying as is but, having these bicycle seats instead of normal seats, I can only guess would make flying worse. But, if you look into the article a little bit more, it’s not that simple. Basically, their strategy is this, they’re filing all these patents legitimately just in case the industry shifts over time and maybe all planes will eventually have these bicycle seats. They just want to have this locked down just in case that happens. I guess they do this with a lot of other patents. They just try to guess where the future’s going to go. If it goes that way, it’s good for them. But I can’t see planes shifting to these bicycle seats because no one’s going to want to fly on a plane with this. NASIR: Yeah. Well, Airbus is basically the competitor of Boeing. Maybe people are more familiar with that. Boeing would be based in Washington, right? I think they’re moving or something. But, anyway, it looks like these seats are basically stacked like cattle. I think that’s the main component of this because, I don’t know if you’ve flown lately but it used to be that you used to have space on the plane, but now it’s like stacked up to the brim and I think they found a way to get more people on there. MATT: It has to be the reason why they’re doing it the way they’re doing. “To increase the number of cabin seats, the space allotted to each passenger must be reduced.” I mean, like I said, no one’s going to want to take a flight where they’re sitting on a bicycle seat. I don’t like riding a bicycle because of the seat to begin with. I guess these can be nice, comfortable bicycle seats. But, even then, it’s still not very comfortable.

Nasir and Matt delve into the recently filed lawsuit by a sleeping fan against ESPN.  The then answer the question, "Is it illegal for an employer to not pay an employee for training for a job? This is an hourly wage job, not contract. The location of the job is in California." Transcript: NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub on a dead sprint right now. NASIR: Slow down, slow down. Welcome to our podcast where we cover business legal in the news and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallsoundsmartbusiness.com and also don’t forget to include your location because that gives us an idea of which law applies because every state has its own law. MATT: That’s true. It does make a big difference. NASIR: And sometimes city. MATT: We only know a couple of states. Hopefully only people are sending in the states that we know. NASIR: Yes, Alaska and Cuba. Wait, Cuba’s not a state. MATT: All right. NASIR: That’s only one state then. MATT: So, our Alaskan audience. I give credit to my wife for finding this story – even if she doesn’t listen to the podcast. She’s never going to hear the credit I’m giving her. T There’s always humorous lawsuits but this is a pretty funny one. This was pretty recently. I forget how long ago. In the last week or so, there was a Yankees-Red Sox game. For you, Nasir, and for other people that don’t watch baseball, baseball games are long but games between these two teams are known to be extremely long – like, four hours plus, every single game. NASIR: Oh, really? I didn’t know that. MATT: It’s a big rivalry and so there’s a lot of pitchers changing and all that stuff. But this was in the fourth inning so I don’t really know if he has an argument but basically this fan fell asleep in the stands on the top of the fourth inning and it was nationally televised on ESPN and the camera cut to him, sleeping, and then the two announcers who – you know, like I said – were the ESPN announcers just started making fun of this guy, cracking jokes with him. I listened to it, nothing too bad. But now this guy is suing ESPN for $10 million defamation lawsuit for the avalanche of disparaging words over his nap that he was taking in the stands. I don’t know. I think this is pretty hilarious. This just seems ridiculous that he would bring this lawsuit because he fell asleep and they were making a couple of cracks at him. NASIR: I’m trying to find the actual comments and the ones that I’m reading seem so benign, you know? Like, were they actual false statements? I mean, there are laws of privacy where putting someone in a false light and so forth but this is in a public place and disparagement is not a crime or illegal but defamation is and saying something that’s not true is, but that has to be a kind of a statement of fact and not an opinion and it seems they were, like you said, just kind of making cracks and jokes and making light of the fact that he’s falling asleep at a game which obviously baseball is one of the most interesting live action games in the world – of course, next to soccer which apparently you think is less interesting. MATT: Yeah, I did like how they tried to reach out to this guy. He wasn’t able to be reached – probably because he was sleeping – but his mom was able to be reached and her response was, “You should send the message that idiots need to stay out of people’s business and not make fun of people who are harmless.” I’m glad she gets the whole point of this lawsuit. NASIR: Yeah. Well, there’s truth to that, too. I mean, on one hand, I do feel kind of bad because we do live in an age where people can be put into like this public light. You know, all of a sudden, there’s videos on YouTube and it has tens of thousands of hits and now he’s known as the guy that fell asleep. It kind of reminds me of a Seinfeld episode when George was at a tennis game – probably a Wimbledon match or someth...

The guys discuss Tesla's decision to go open source with its patents and answer the question, "Our sales people get company cell phones that are for work use only. One of our recently fired employees wants the pictures on their phone. Do I have to give it to them?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business! This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: This is Matt. NASIR: Welcome to… Oh, I forgot, Matt Staub is here. MATT: Yeah, Matt Staub is also here. It’s apparently a one-person show this week. NASIR: So, welcome to Episode 55 where we cover business in the news and also put in our legal twist and also answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, sends to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. MATT: Apparently, we allow the co-host to talk at times, but not always. NASIR: Well, I just wanted to try it out to see if it was just Legally Sound Smart Business with Nasir Pasha and then that’s it. I just wanted to see. It has nothing to do with you. I just, you know, I was experimenting. MATT: All right, fair enough, fair enough. Well, tying in some more equality issues, I guess, this is pretty big news that out’s there. Elon Musk – I think that’s how you pronounce his name – the guy who’s involved with PayPal before and now of Tesla amongst other companies, he’s come out and said, “You know what? We’ve got hundreds of patents of Tesla but we’re just going to not go after anyone that wants to infringe on our patents. We’re opening up everything. If someone wants to copy what we do, we do it at such a great efficient rate that it doesn’t matter and that’s that.” You know, this is pretty much the exact opposite of what we’ve seen in the last decade with patent trolls and all that. NASIR: Well, he’s definitely somebody that just tries to do things differently – to his advantage, of course. I mean, people could say that this is a move against the whole patent system in itself but I think the key here, from what I’m reading, is that this may be a move to get his technology on a wider scale. He’s talking to BMW right now to get them to share the cost in developing these charging stations, right? What I found interesting is that it wasn’t specified – at least in any of the media released – how he’s going to actually allow people to do this because there are ways to basically cede your rights to patents through the patent office. They have some kind of procedure for that but I don’t know if he’s going to do that because that’s kind of permanent. Or is he going to kind of make this an open source deal where you have specific licenses? There’s a lot of numbers of ways you can do this. It just depends upon how he wants to control it. MATT: Yeah, I thought about that as well and what he kind of said was Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who in good faith wants to use our technology. So, I don’t know if people are going to be taking his word for it because it’s a little bit risky if that’s the case. NASIR: Yeah, exactly. You’d want something in writing because what if he changes his mind? Is that something you can rely upon legally? I think that’s a little uncertain. But my assumption is that this is recent news and, as time goes along, we’ll figure out exactly what his intentions are and how he wants to release this technology. MATT: Yeah, and I think you’re right as well. Tesla’s doing all right but it has a very small percent of the market so maybe this is going to open things up and make things even better for Tesla even though it’s kind of helping out all your competitors. I mean, it is helping out your competitors, in theory. NASIR: Yeah, I think there’s a reason why you have all these car dealerships on the same road in many different cities, right? It’s because, even if it’s competition, it helps in their sales because, all right, everyone, let’s go to that location and shop around for cars. It actually helps themselves. So, I think it’s kind of the same area.

Nasir and Matt talk about fast food restaurants replacing employees with robots and answer the question, "I'm trying to raise some capital from investors. When they ask how I am going to use their investment, what should I say?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: Welcome to our business legal podcast where we cover business news and add our legal twist and also answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, sends in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. We really appreciate those questions. Those of you who have not sent any questions, you guys can stop listening because we don’t care about you guys. MATT: The people that don’t send in questions don’t have problems so maybe that’s a consideration as well. NASIR: I guess that’s true. Well, you can still listen. MATT: We don’t want to alienate people that don’t have questions that need to be answered – or at least I don’t; maybe you do. NASIR: I guess that’s fine. MATT: All right. Well, let’s get to what we have for this Monday episode. NASIR: Actually, this episode is coming on Tuesday, I think, because of the Memorial Day. Just a procedural clarification, for those listening. MATT: For people that have hacked into my computer and listened to the audio a day in advance. But, for those that haven’t, happy Tuesday! We kind of talked about this before, I think, with fast food workers and the protesting but I didn’t even know this was still going on but more fast food workers are protesting, want higher wages, blah blah blah. But this is getting to robots that are supposedly going to replace fast food workers. I thought this was pretty interesting. I don’t think there can ever be a situation where it’s going to be 100 percent replaced. I don’t even know if you can get to 25 percent. But it gets to an interesting point of efficiency in the workplace. If these robots can do things more efficiently than actual people, great for none of the problems. But it also gets to what jobs should people be doing for a fast food restaurant – task allocation. If someone can do these three things, can they do that? Great. If not, maybe we should have some sort of robot in place. NASIR: Yeah, it’s not a new issue because we’ve talked about how, in GM, when they started automating everything – or everything from the assembly line to now robots are building cars that are building self-driving cars which is robots building robots – and so, this is stuff that’s been going on for a while, but I think it’s different now that it’s in the fast food industry. But I’m just wondering if the argument to start replacing these guys with robots, are they going to have faces? Am I going to Panera Bread – by the way, Panera Bread is going to start doing this very soon with some kind of automated service – am I going to walk in and some robot with eyes and a mouth is going to talk to me and ask for my order? That’s going to be kind of weird. MATT: Well, you’re thinking of it from the perspective of actual robot people. NASIR: Yeah, it’s as if it’s Back to the Future made another movie and they would do this. It would look like that – some robot with someone asking for your order like they did in Back to the Future Part II. MATT: Well, keep in mind that a lot of tasks – well, not a lot but there’s a good amount of tasks – that still go on at restaurants today or a lot of different industries that are done by robots but more so like machines and equipment so I don’t think you’re necessarily going to walk in and have a robot person there. “Can I take your order?” NASIR: Taken from the employer’s perspective, it’s kind of hard to do it because you kind of have to take your heart out of the whole concept because these are actually real people that they’re replacing. But I suppose, if a robot can do the exact same thing, it’s cheaper. It’s just like before,

The guys talk about all you can eat buffets implementing surcharges for unclean plates. They then address, "I have an minor working for me who said they would work for half of what the minimum wage is. Can I legally do this?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Smart Sound Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: And welcome to the podcast where we cover business stories with our legal twist and also answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. MATT: It is the Friday episode so I’d like to give a shout-out to a select listener. I got some compliments this week from – I’ll give the first name only – Ericka. She was giving compliments out. Every introduction is a little bit different and she liked that. NASIR: She liked that? MATT: Yeah, thanks for listening. We appreciate it. I’m sure she’s one of the people too that have given us a good review on iTunes. NASIR: She’d better have. Otherwise, I’ll be upset. Otherwise, we should take back that compliment or that thank-you that you gave. MATT: We can always edit it out so that’s not a problem. NASIR: That’s true. We’ll check it afterwards. We’ll have our fact-checkers do that. MATT: All right. Let’s get into the story we have for today. This is something near and dear to my heart. NASIR: Very good. MATT: The premise of this story is a restaurant has added – and I think this is in Switzerland, I’m trying to remember – yeah, it’s a Swiss restaurant that’s adding a surcharge for all-you-can-eat customers who don’t actually clear their plate. And so, I have a couple of problems with this. (1) I’ve never even had this issue ever so I don’t even understand the plate that’s not clean. That’s a little bit confusing to me. (2) It’s not all you can eat if you’re charging someone. I get their idea because, at buffets, people don’t do it right and they’ll just go up there and grab a ton of stuff and eat half of it and move onto the next plate. You’re paying for that service. Adding a surcharge to it, I don’t like that. NASIR: Really? One reason I hate these all-you-can-eat places is because, if you just look to your right, look to your left, you just have people that just go overboard, fill their plates up, and then they’re like small little thin people. How are they going to finish that plate? And then, you look over twenty minutes later, it’s pretty much still full. That’s a little frustrating, no? I mean, it’s just so wasteful. I don’t have the same problem but I think, at the same time though, I guess I was just raised to clear my plate. I control the size of my eyes compared to the food or my stomach or whatever the stupid saying is. MATT: Yeah. As always, not good with the reference. You do raise a good point. You definitely see that a bunch but, to me, that’s why you’re paying for it. It’s that opportunity and it is very wasteful but you’re paying for the opportunity to be wasteful if you want. NASIR: No, you’re paying to be able to eat all you want. That doesn’t mean that you should take things that you’re not going to eat, right? MATT: Yeah, but it’s all you can eat. I don’t know. I don’t necessarily agree with this. NASIR: But, if you can’t eat it, you shouldn’t take it. MATT: I agree with that but I don’t like the surcharge and they have some pretty funny ones that happen in the US, too. I think it was they sued a sushi restaurant because they cut him off because he wasn’t eating the rice in the sushi. He was just eating the fish. NASIR: Yeah, I saw that. MATT: Which is kind of funny. If you go anywhere, that’s why they give you as much rice as possible because they try to fill you up. This is a nice tactic if you don’t want to fill up, just don’t eat the rice. I’m giving advice now from an eating perspective. NASIR: Yeah, that’s a little different. That’s true. MATT: This one’s really funny. A man in Wisconsin called the police to complain afte...

Nasir and Matt talk about how a businesses based on a fad can succeed and answer, "I don't have money to pay for certain services. Can I trade my products for other company's services?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: This is Legally Sound Smart Business. My name is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And my name is Matt Staub. NASIR: And this is the business podcast where we cover business in the news and give our legal twist and also answer some of your business legal questions that you submit, the listener, to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. You know, I think I said “business” in that last thirty seconds about 50,000 times. MATT: It’d be some sort of record, probably. NASIR: I’m pretty sure. Call Guiness. MATT: All right. Well, let’s see, we have a story here. NASIR: We do? Let’s listen! What do we have? MATT: I don’t know, you’re going to have to help me out with this one because I don’t eat sweets. I don’t eat desserts. NASIR: That’s true. MATT: It’s a cupcake-based story. There’s this company, Crumbs is what it’s called, but it speaks more to fads. And so, this company, Crumbs Bakeshop, they actually went public back in 2011 because I guess they, you know, it was during the cupcake craze apparently and their stock I think started in the mid-teens and now it’s below 50 cents. NASIR: Oh. MATT: And I say “cupcake craze” because that’s kind of what it was. I’m sure you’ve seen this in a bunch of cities. There’s cupcake shops that pop up and have become pretty popular or at least they were popular and who knows whether they’re popular now. Juicing is really popular right now. There’s a lot of juice places popping up. We have talked about this before – like, the food trucks, that was a big craze. That was a fad. But this is what I’m getting to. If your business is a fad, what do you do when it’s not a fad anymore? NASIR: You have to recognize whether it is a fad or not. If it is, then I’d exit as quick as possible. MATT: Yeah. NASIR: I wonder if these founders of Crumbs – is it Crumbs or Crumb? I haven’t even heard of them, by the way. I’ve been to a number of cupcake places in my time. It’s not necessarily my cup of tea but I have been there once in a while with family and so forth. MATT: Doesn’t your Twitter handle say Cupcake Connoisseur on it? NASIR: Well, that’s true. I do test taste for a number of cupcake companies but, like I said, I got tired of it. I just wonder if Crumbs, after their IPO which just boggles my mind that it actually found a firm that was willing to back such an IPO but anyway, I wonder if these founders actually were able to just exit out of it. Did they lose money? I bet you they got a piece of it and had a successful business and I think it’s time for them to get out because fads are okay. If you’re in business and your product becomes really popular and you think it may go out later, that’s not a big deal. But, if your product is easily to be copied and done by anyone else, then that’s a problem in itself. I mean, a lot of these cupcake guys, I mean, how many did we know – and, unfortunately, I knew a lot – that were all of a sudden selling cupcakes out of the house and selling them to their neighbors and so forth? And then, they wanted to open up a shop and, you know, I’m sure that all the cupcakes are good but, frankly, the difference between the greatest cupcake and a good cupcake is just not there. MATT: Like I said, this is a tough topic for me because I don’t even eat cupcakes so I don’t know if there’s a big difference. NASIR: It’s the same thing with those yogurt shops. You mentioned those yogurt shops, right? MATT: Well, don’t say that in front of my wife because she will strongly disagree with you. NASIR: Ah. MATT: There is a big difference between them. NASIR: No, there’s not. In fact, I’ve had friends that have actually invested and gotten into the industry. I made my opinions very clear about it but, first of all, yogurt shops were a huge thing.

Nasir and Matt discuss the legalities behind the NBA banning Donald Sterling and answer the question, "One of my employees is very annoying. He does great work but I can tell he is not liked by most coworkers. I also know he will sue if I fire him. How can I handle this best?" Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: This is Legally Sound Smart Business and this is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: This is where we cover business news with our legal twist and answer some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, can send in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. MATT: All right. Well, let’s just dive in here. I’m a big NBA fan and it’s been a great playoffs so far but, unfortunately, there’s this underlying issue that’s kind of taken the headlines. Even if you’re not a sports fan, you’ve probably heard about this. Donald Sterling, he’s the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers. I believe he’s the longest-standing owner in the NBA. I think he bought it in 1981. He’s been involved in a lot of lawsuits throughout his life – a lot of which are based on racial discrimination, other forms of discrimination – just all sorts of terrible things. But, finally, I think it looks like it caught up to him. There was a bunch of legal things with this but let me get the story first. He was recorded – a private conversation – without his knowledge or consent was recorded of his where he’s just saying terrible things to – I don’t know exactly what the relationship is because I believe he’s still married. Maybe he’s not married. I don’t know. Basically, this young woman recorded this conversation where Donald Sterling said all these pretty bad things from a racial standpoint and then it got leaked. The NBA finally said, “Enough is enough.” There’s a new commissioner in the NBA who just took over in February so this is his first big task here. He came out and banned him from the NBA – showing up to games, being part of anything with the organization. Now, he still gets payouts. He still owns the team but they just banned him. That’s another legal issue there – whether he could do that. But what it comes down to also is, if they get three-fourths of the remaining owners to vote that they want to kick him out of the league, they can – which is kind of crazy, but that’s what the NBA constitution I think is what it’s called says. I don’t know what you want to talk about this because there’s so many legal issues going on but I assume you at least heard about it. NASIR: Yeah, there are a ton of legal issues here but one legal issue that I think is missing that I think people are talking about but is just not there – is it legal to be a racist? The thing is you can. Everyone’s talking about, oh, like, some kind of labor law, discrimination or anything like that. First of all, understand that there’s no allegations that he took action or some kind of discriminatory act. It’s just these comments are, of course, reprehensible in itself. But the point is that there’s no labor law violation. There’s no statute that he’s broken. The reason it’s a legal issue is because there’s some contractual obligations that he has to abide by under what Matt described as this NBA constitution which the name in itself is kind of funny to me but oh well… And so, that’s really the issue here. Did he violate the constitution? If he did, what can they do about it and can the rest of the owners – was it three-fourths or two-thirds’ vote? MATT: Three-fourths, yeah. NASIR: Three-fourths – can they basically kick him out of the league by forcing him a sale. I think there is some kind of provision but I’m not sure how clear it is – whether his actions or his comments here warrant such an action under the constitution – the NBA constitution that is. MATT: I’m glad you brought that first point up because it really isn’t being talked about. Obviously, all the things he’s done are terrible and he shouldn’t be involved in the league.

Nasir and Matt start the show off discussing Facebook's newest acquisition (WhatsApp), how Capital One's credit card policy allows entry into consumer's homes, the importance of new top level domains to small businesses, and how to not respond to a (fake)employee quitting. They also answer questions concerning about hiring a minor, what expense you can deduct before incorporating, and the legal implications of using a customer's logo without its consent. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: This is Nasir Pasha. Welcome to Legally Sound. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: I know, I threw you off. I usually say, “This is Legally Sound,” and then, “My name’s Nasir Pasha.” MATT: You switched the order and you didn’t even say the full name of the podcast. NASIR: Oh, yeah, that’s true. This is Legally Sound Smart Business – also known, in short, Legally Sound. MATT: Glad you clarified there. NASIR: I thought you were going to finish the other half. I’m the Legally Sound part, you’re the Smart Business. MATT: We don’t need to get to the point where we finish each other’s sentences like that. NASIR: Sentences. MATT: All right. Let’s jump into it. This was a pretty big story this week. There’s a lot of news about it. Facebook is buying this thing called WhatsApp for 19 billion dollars and I think a huge chunk of that is cash and there’s some stock. I mean, I wasn’t familiar with WhatsApp until you actually introduced me to it. We use it pretty much every day. It’s pretty good technology. I mean, this is just really interesting for a few reasons. One, this is a lot of money. This is a pretty small company in terms of size. I think it had 15 employees. NASIR: It’s small and it’s new. It’s only a few years old, right? MATT: Yeah, it’s still relatively new. It’s still really small. I don’t think they’re making a ton of money, if any, right now. NASIR: They’re making money, but nowhere close to 16 billion dollars. I think it’s a dollar per year per user and I know their user base is in the millions. It’s definitely not 16 billion users because that would be more than what’s on the earth. Obviously, there’s a multiplier here. Honestly, when I first saw this, I’m a heavy user. I use it with my family. I use it for TFL. It’s just a good way to have groups and share whatever. I don’t know. I was a little put off that Facebook is now integrating themselves in there. I think they’ve said that they’re not necessarily going to change it too much or let it independently grow and operate and retain its brand. I don’t know. It put me off a little bit. MATT: I forgot that I did pay a dollar for when I bought it. I completely forgot about that. That is how they make their money. This is pretty interesting because I don’t use Facebook Messenger, but I know it exists. I guess they just like what WhatsApp had in place a lot more than their own messaging service because I think they’re competitors in a sense. But another thing here, I guess, what was a reason they did this possibly, what people are saying was international usage. Apparently, primarily in Europe, there’s a very high usage rate of WhatsApp and it’s not the same in the US. Maybe there might be more. I don’t remember if there’s more Facebook messaging users or what it is, but it’s extremely high level of WhatsApp users in Europe and other countries outside of the US. That could be a play that they’re trying to do here. NASIR: Yeah, exactly. I think the international messaging is definitely kind of lost in the Facebook world. I’m just looking it up here. It looks like they have around 450 million users. Assuming each of them pay a dollar per year – some of them may have gotten it for free for whatever reason in the beginning – it seems like a huge multiplier and there’s a lot of discussion about why it’s priced so high and it’s kind of confusing to me, but one thing that you should know here is that there’s a termination fee. If, for some reason,

In this week's episode, Nasir and Matt discuss some of Obama's planned executive actions for 2014, Ohio pizzerias breaking employment laws, the importance of forum selection causes in contracts, and the crazy story behind one man losing his Twitter handle. They also answer questions about changing business agreements, being an at-will employee, and running multiple businesses under one LLC. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: And this is where we cover business news and give our legal twist and also cover some of your business legal questions that you, the listener, sends in to ask@legallysoundsmartbusiness.com. So, we have a pretty fun story here coming up. What have we got? MATT: I was going to comment on what a great Super Bowl it was yesterday even though we’re taping this before. I mean, what a game! Hopefully it was a good game. NASIR: The weather wasn’t too bad. Yeah, I enjoyed the food, watching the commercials. The commercials, you’ve got to admit, they were hilarious, right? MATT: Yeah, definitely. NASIR: Especially that one with that food commercial with the car. That was good. MATT: All right. Well, that’s enough of that. Let’s get into the first thing here. This is an article that was written. It just details some of the executive actions that Obama is planning on this year, and we’re not going to touch on all of them, but there’s a few that were pretty interesting. The first one – this was pretty big news this week or this past week – was raising the minimum wage for federal contract workers to $10.10. This is going to be pretty big news. I know we covered the California increase that’s going to go into effect in July, right? July 1st? I can’t remember – right in the middle of the year. NASIR: Yeah, and it’s going to be stepping up after that as well. MATT: This is a pretty big jump. I think it was at about a $3.00 increase on what it was before? NASIR: Yeah, and I read about that it may not impact that many people as far as in the federal workforce and I’m not sure about all that, but the point of this, this just shows you where the country is going state by state and where the pressure is to raise minimum wage. I mean, that’s been the story for about the last six months when it comes to small businesses and big businesses as well. And so, states are starting to follow suit already and now we’re getting tremendous pressure on the federal level. I think we talked about how minimum wage is different from each state, but there’s also a federal minimum wage, but a lot of states have higher minimum wages than the federal standard such as California, New York, as well as some cities like San Francisco. MATT: You’re right with what you said and it’s not going to affect as many people as you would think, or someone might think just by hearing this. I know the general public just sees, “Oh, our increasing federal minimum wage, $3.00. I don’t like that.” But it’s not affecting too many people. I just found it pretty interesting. That’s a pretty significant jump. NASIR: What about this retirement savings account that President Obama announced by executive order that he’s going to be starting? MATT: Yeah, that was the next thing I was going to get to. I don’t know what to think about this. He calls it a starter retirement savings account. It’s available through employers. I guess this is for people that are working for companies that don’t already have 401k stuff like that. NASIR: And it seems to work just like a regular IRA except what you’re investing in is in savings bonds, so it’s a pretty conservative play which is fine. It’s a starter account. Also, note that, I guess, when the account hits $15,000 or after thirty years, you’re forced to roll it into a private IRA. So, it’s definitely a so-called starter. MATT: Right. NASIR: It’s interesting. I think this would be attractive to a lot of small business empl...

Nasir and Matt kick off 2014 discussing the new changes to Obamacare, a bookkeeper stealing from the business she works for, the consequences of raising minimum wage, and the backlash surrounding Uber's surge pricing. They also answer questions about paying yourself in an LLC, copyright infringements in a t-shirt printing business, and working with international clients. Nasir and Matt also discuss the expansion of Top Floor Legal. Full Podcast Transcript NASIR: Welcome to Legally Sound Smart Business. This is Nasir Pasha. MATT: And this is Matt Staub. NASIR: Happy New Year, everyone! I don’t know what it is, but the “Happy New Year” thing seems to last too long in the sense that it’s been weeks now – well, actually, I guess it’s only been a week, but I’m already tired of it. I feel like it’s been weeks. MATT: Yeah, I mean, you’ve got a couple of days. You’re the type of person that takes down the Christmas tree as you’re opening your gifts. NASIR: I’d say maybe five minutes after midnight is probably the limit for me. After that, then it’s looking forward to January. MATT: All right. Let’s get into the first story we have for this new year – not only this week, but this year. So, we’re going to lead off with something that’s going to be pretty big, I think, throughout the year. A big story – Obamacare. NASIR: In fact, I think we’re going to cover it the whole month. It’s a big topic, obviously. So, unless we devote an entire episode which might get a little boring, I think we’ll touch on it every week this January. MATT: Yeah, I can only handle one story a week. So, we can’t do a full episode of it. Your wife and my wife are both in the healthcare industry. I rely on my wife a lot to just keep me up-to-date with everything for things that don’t have to do with business because it’s a pretty expansive act that was put into effect. NASIR: Yeah, and everyone says it’s not even the legislators actually read the bill and it is pretty lengthy. But, not only that, it keeps changing, and we’ll talk about that in a second in the sense that there’s rules that are being rolled out in 2014, but that don’t necessarily apply because the administration has decided not to enforce some of those provisions. MATT: Right. Okay. Well, let’s get into some of the changes or the things that are happening for 2014 in relation to Obamacare. So, just a couple of things here, and this is all how it relates to businesses, of course. The Small Business Tax Credit Expand – previously, 35 percent now up to as much as 50 percent for I believe it’s businesses with fewer than 25 employees. So, this is a pretty beneficial thing for these smaller businesses. I guess we’ll see how this works out. I know this doesn’t apply to everyone. California is all right, but there’s a few states that it doesn’t work for. NASIR: Yeah, because they haven’t even set up their business exchanges right. So, to get this tax credit, you actually have to have your employees on the new government-run small business exchange. And so, if you want to use your 2013 plan or not make any changes, then you might want to take a look at this because you won’t be eligible for the new tax credit. MATT: Right, and that’s exactly why that is the way it is. There’s some other things – health insurance tax, the tax part of that starts, that was a big thing when that came out. I believe that’s how it got all pushed through – it was labelling his attacks. I know peop had problems with that. NASIR: Yeah. Technically, it’s not a tax on the small business, but it’s a tax on the insurance companies for these small business plans. Effectively, it’s going to drive up premiums. They say 2 to 2.5 percent, but we’ll have to see how that actually manifests itself. MATT: Yeah, we’ll see, and it seems like a low number, but who knows? This is a pretty good one, too. Insurers can no longer calculate prices based on past history of the employees or the industry itself.