Podcast appearances and mentions of patricia kathleen

Today I am speaking with Jane Busemi. Jane obtained a certificate in Plant-Based Nutrition through the Center for Nutrition Studies. With over 100 healthy recipes in her kitchen portfolio, she’s cooked and shared my culinary creations with family and friends—even non-vegans became fans of these tasty dishes. Best of all, she has been able to demonstrate how anyone can manage the preparation and cooking of these dishes within their own schedule. Now, she’s passionate about helping others take-off weight and demonstrating the health benefits of a plant-based lifestyle. Healthy eating CAN be delicious, satisfying, and help her clients and audience lose those excess pounds. Key points addressed were  Jane’s knowledge and philosophy basis behind her recipe development and curation on her website as well as the core tenants behind cooking oil free with alternative natural whole food sources of fatWe also discussed Jane’s opinion about the different populations engaging in vegan cooking and food and where the future is headed in that regard TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with certified plant based nutritionist and founder of Vegan and Under Control. Jane Buscemi. Key points address where Jane's knowledge and philosophy basis behind her recipe development and curation on her Web site, as well as the core tenants behind cooking oil free with alternative natural Whole Foods sources of fat. We also discussed Jane's opinion about the different populations engaging in Vegan cooking and food and where the future is headed. In that regard. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jane Buscemi. [00:00:41] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Acom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:38] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Jane Buscemi. Jane is a certified plant based nutritionist and founder of Vegan Under Control. You can find out more on her Web site. W w w dot Vegan and under control dot com. Welcome, Jane. [00:01:56] Thank you. Good to be here. [00:01:58] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of climb through everything that you've done. You've got a really unique and personal narrative and history with Vegan. Vegan world in general for everyone listening who might be new to our podcast. I will first read a bio on Jane before I pepper her with questions. But prior to that, a quick roadmap for the line of inquiry will first ask Jane to kind of unpack her personal story with Vegan life and begin cooking. And as that ties into all of her work endeavors, and then we'll ask her to define some terms before we unpack her Web site, the Vegan, and under control of the services and information she offers there. And then we'll look at actually unpacking the Web site. We'll look at the recipes, some of the services that Jane has there and everything else. Then we'll get into some rapid fire questions just about the industry in general. Those of you who follow this podcast who've written in and we always like to honor that with including some of your lines of inquiry with every guest that we have. So, as promised, a quick bio on Jane, before I start peppering her with questions, Jane obtained a certificate in plant based nutrition through the Center for Nutrition Studies with over one hundred healthy recipes in her kitchen portfolio. She's cooked and shared many culinary creations with family and friends. Even non vegans became fans of these tasty dishes. Best of all, she has been able to demonstrate how anyone can manage the preparation and cooking of these dishes within their own schedule. Now she's passionate about helping others take off weight and demonstrating the health benefits of plant based lifestyle. Healthy eating can be delicious, satisfying and help her clients and audience lose those excess pounds. So, Jane, I truncated your personal bio it incredibly because I was hoping that you could start us off today by explaining and further elaborating about your Vegan journey, which I know from your Web site and researching your information started in early adolescence. Can you share that story with us? [00:03:55] Sure. As a teenager, I wanted to I I knew firsthand about animal slaughter and I wanted to get away from eating meat. And I told my parents I would like to stop eating meat. And they said, you can't because you will die. And they were you know, they weren't lying. They just honestly believe that. And I learned that I could and I tried and I became a vegetarian. And then later on, I became a beacon. The path Vegan was about. It was about maturing and health levels being not as good as they could be. And it was about learning, about factory farming and my. And then the environment and my convictions just led me to become a big. And after that, I, I got more and more into health. As time went on, took the nutrition class, I am plant based Whole Foods, which means that I. Use primarily Whole Foods. My cooking. I don't use any oil. [00:05:12] And I am low fat and I have low fat because not that nutrition things. That's exactly where to be nowadays. But I am low fat because that per count per calorie is twice the amount of calories is carbohydrates and protein. And that way I can eat more. I'm not a portion control person. [00:05:34] I love food. I love to eat. I'm a foodie. I like to explore recipes. That's how I create them. [00:05:41] And at the same time, I want to be mindful of health. [00:05:45] Yeah. And I think a lot of I've spoken well, the majority of people I've had on this particular podcast are not portion control fans. If you write a lot of people who practice veganism, it may be a byproduct of not needing to unless you're more of a junk food vegan as the term goes. [00:06:04] But it does seem to be a common thread among this industry that you've kind of sussed out, which is people they want to really engage with their food and in abundance, in color amount and things of that nature. And you've kind of dropped this into a really great area now at two defining terms. And I think this is really important to do with all vegans among each other, because it's important to know what we're all talking about when we use the words Vegan plant based. You also mentioned Whole Foods, which I would love for you to kind of define for everyone listening as what these terms mean to you. So when you speak about Vegan and plant based, what do those terms mean to each other and on their own? [00:06:47] OK, v n is a general term that people like to reserve for. I am in it for animal rights and animal advocacy as. And I will be anything as long as it does not come from that in any way, shape or form. And plant based means that it's health care, that you're not only a beacon, but you are also concerned about health. And so generally, when people say plant based, that's what they need, at least in this country. I think it's used a little bit differently abroad. [00:07:29] Absolutely. How do you define Whole Foods? I think that's one for a lot of people who are not kind of up to current term terminal. [00:07:38] Right thing can be seen as a whole food. How do you personally define it? [00:07:42] When something is highly refined, when it's processed, it basically does things like turn to sugar right away in our body when food is whole. It has fiber and fiber is very important because fiber helps to satiate us and makes us satisfied with our food, which is what you want to be if you don't want to over eat. And it helps regulate blood sugar and does a lot of good things. So generally, Whole Foods is foods that contains fiber. [00:08:15] And so it might be whole week as opposed to white flour, whole grain, as opposed to processed grains. [00:08:28] And goes on from there. The way you're describing it, is it kind of as close to its natural form as one can get? Because it is. It is as close to its natural form. But make no mistake, I'm cooking. So cooking is, in a way, a process itself. [00:08:48] And so is putting stuff in the blender, which sometimes is not a good idea nutritionally. And some buns. It is a good idea. But yes. So it is close to the natural thing. But but, you know, I'm not going outside picking something and just eating that way. I for more or less doing something with it. [00:09:09] And then you get into the wrong conversation and things like that. I think it is you do that cooking in itself is a process and you're processing the food with that. [00:09:17] Right. I'd argue that Raul also can be a process because if you marinate something for a long time, you're also changing the chemistry. But OK. [00:09:25] Yeah. Yeah. And Sitrick, I mean, if you're you know, you can cook things without any heat. Right. You cook them with citric acid and things like that. I love getting into the minutia. It's so fun. I'm wondering you, before we start unpacking your site, you have this overarching emphasis that started out as it was kind of narrated by your personal story, where it was an analysis of fat. [00:09:49] And as you mentioned before, looking at the calories in fat and plug and cultivate and curate your recipes through this. It's you very much so, you know, upfront with all of your recipes, our calories from fat. And I mean, you can first start off by explaining to us if you differentiate between different fats. Which ones are good for you? And under your umbrella. Which ones are bad? Do you have any of those lists? And how do they make sense to you? [00:10:20] So the fats I use are not really added fats. They're the natural fats in the food. [00:10:27] So I don't use any oils, whether they're unsaturated, modern, monounsaturated, poly saturated or or saturated. But certain foods that we become a very good few, like avocados, have a little bit of saturated fat. [00:10:46] So it will eat some comes into their. [00:10:53] And my concept is that if people want, they really only have to use at that. Look at that fat number to get an indication of of how much one can eat of it, to get indication of quantity. Because if you are a tall male, you can eat a heck of a lot if you're a small female like me. You can not eat a heck of a lot. [00:11:21] And even though I don't do portion control, you know, there are better choices and worse choices. So the lower the fat, usually, the better it is for weight loss. But having said that, coming going forward, I've discovered that there are these personal nutrition apps that some people like to use. I'm going to be putting up on my Web site over the next couple of weeks some additional numbers so that if people want to use those personal apps to track their calories or nutritional values, they will be able to. So it won't be the only number in the future. But it's a number that I go. [00:11:55] Nice. Yeah, absolutely. Let's get into it now. Let's unpack. Vegan Vegan and under control dot com. First of all, the name. Where did the name come from. I love it. Vegan and under. [00:12:09] Thank you. The cake. [00:12:11] The name came from the fact that I have a very talented niece in advertising who some brainstorming with me and worked out what would be the best thing to use. And that's how it came about. [00:12:25] It's great. [00:12:25] I think a lot of I love plays on common perception and I think one of the most common perceptions that anyone who's been Vegan and have the pleasure of running into people who aren't and maybe not as red in as what the Vegan environment is, is that it's a hyper militant out of control philosophy and the people involved in it are terrifyingly no. [00:12:48] And I think it is the opposite. It's very much in control. But some people say to me, well, whose control do you want me to be under? And the answer is your own. So your body is your body if you want to control your own destiny and your own fate and your own body. [00:13:06] Absolutely. So we if you enter the site, if you if you the landing page, you're immediately kind of confronted with, you know, a lot of your core tenants in this. This great visual display. [00:13:17] One of the things that you have is you've got these recipes. And I first want to claim to that before we get into the classes that you offer. And I'm always curious, when someone is a chef and cooking Vegan foods and developing Vegan recipes and sharing them. My first question is, what is your curation process like? How do you decide what goes up and what doesn't make it onto the site to share with your audience? [00:13:44] I just went through and I tried to. [00:13:49] Avoid recipes that would be a lot of other recipes to work on. [00:13:55] But I basically just picked a few of my favorite. A few of the things that I think that people would look at and say, wait, how could that be dietetic? That sounds really good. And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to say to people that it isn't dietetic in the old fashioned sense of the word. It is something delicious that you eat because you want to respect your body. [00:14:22] Yeah, I like it because I think that what you just said is is really true. I was looking on in the hearts of Palm Caprice. That was just on very close to the top. And I hadn't really it's a return to a lot of classics that just kind of read. [00:14:36] I think regardless of how long you've been Vegan or not Vegan, you can kind of lose inspiration or sight and start cooking the same things over and over again, particularly if you're satisfying more palates in just a couple in the house, like myself and I, you know, reintroducing ideas of, you know, a caprices or brussel sprouts or you had one on grilled zucchini that inspired me when I was researching you to up and grill some zucchini on the barbecue, of course. Those are beautiful things, you know. And so I think that it's not just the simplicity of the recipes, which I love not only for re inspiration for vegans, but also this, you know, mild conversion, which you speak to on your site, where people who are not being can kind of say that's enjoyable. That's really nice. I'd like to, you know, endeavor in that. So I'm a big fan of small processes and like you said, recipes that don't require other recipes. Right. Clearly, when trying to reach the masses, you know, and things of that nature. Do you have audience? Right. And do you take suggestions from pupils that you have in your classes or other people about recipes? They'd like to be seen as Vegan ised switched from non Vegan to a Vegan format. [00:15:52] I sometimes have that kind of welcome ideas because it's fun to pick things that people want and like. So I encourage people to give me feedback. And I've designed a few recipes for a few different people in a few different events and it's been kind of fun. [00:16:11] I have this tofu benedek thing that I did once or as a brunch request and it's one of my favorite to help. [00:16:22] Yeah, it sounds beautiful. I'll have to take a look at it. I want to turn now to your cooking classes. This is something that may have changed with them latter day events of the Cauvin 19 pandemic. However, I'm curious to see if you've pivoted or so the cooking classes. Did they take place in person or online? You have to cooking them. And so I. I've never done any online. [00:16:45] I've been I've been a little bit camera shy, I confess, but I'm getting there. I've made one video, which is not up any place at this point in time. So everything that I've done is in person. And you're right, I cannot at this in this climate, you know, I have no way of doing that type of thing. So what I pivoted to is enriching myself. I take more nutrition. That's what I'm doing. [00:17:18] Fantastic. That sounds wonderful. I think that cooking classes could very, you know, seamlessly be transition to online and then just service as a package. It can also help with people's schedules. You know, I hear there's an accommodation that happens, I suppose. And I know that you lose some of the interpersonal when it's not live, but sometimes it's like those. [00:17:39] I want to look at your past cooking classes because I have questions regarding this. And we had a lot of people write in. So this will be mixed in with our audience members that wanted me to ask Vegan chefs that gave instruction and things of that nature. What are some of the top misperceptions that a lot of people who are coming to your classes had in regards to Vegan cooking that you kind of saw be unfolded? [00:18:04] Well, I think that I've had a lot of non Bekins being introduced to my food. [00:18:12] So I I think that they kind of didn't really, you know, know what it would take to cope or what it would take to make something taste good. [00:18:29] And I'd like to think that they were surprised that that it comes together so, so well. I mean, it is not the same as a carnivorous type of diet. It's in terms of preparation. [00:18:42] But that things can be managed really, you know, with things like putting something in2 in electric pressure cooker and being able to turn it on whenever you want to turn it on and making a meal happen. [00:18:59] Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of tools like that that I think that bring about this organic moment. It turns people away from the pantries and cans and things like that and really makes for me my insta pot. This, you know, pressurized pot cooker opened up the entire world. I haven't bought a can of beans or dried peas or legumes or things of that. [00:19:21] Absolutely. Five years of experiencing that. It tastes better that way, too, doesn't it? Particularly chickpeas. [00:19:28] So, yeah, I just had some last night and it's so the process I've taught my eleven year old, you know, how to do it. It's so simple. The amount of chopping up an onion and quickly starting it and throwing in some spices and then the water and the beans and letting it go. [00:19:45] It's surreal how quickly it can become a stew or just beans or it would never occur to me to go back to cans because it's faster than actually going out and purchasing the cans. And you're right, the taste with the lack of sodium. We had a lot of people right in asking about cooking oil. Asli and I haven't been able to ask a lot of guests about that because I have had and haven't had a lot of Vegan guests that have gotten into this oil free cooking. [00:20:09] And I love the idea of it. I have to say, I was new to the concept as of last year. [00:20:17] You know, it didn't even occur to me that you could satay an onion and a little bit of water. And why couldn't you? You know, this idea that you have olive oil was silly. If you think about it. But we have to kind of get down to questioning all basics. Do you have oil substitutes or how are you, sir? Taking things when things people naturally think of oil, they're thinking of that you need the vehicle of the fat or something like that. What do you substitute with? [00:20:43] Well, food will taste totally bad if it has no fat, but there are natural fats in many foods. So most of my recipes contain some items that have higher fat than other items do and taken altogether. They just work sorting itself. You can do braw or you can do water, and that works out very well. [00:21:08] I think the areas that I tend to add a substitute for oil is for a recipe like a salad dressing. So last night I made a salad dressing and instead of oil I formulated using some water and some brown chive seeds. And depending on the recipe, I might use something like flax, which is even, you know, a higher pack type of thing. But sometimes you'll taste it. You use different types of seeds or whatever. That pretty much makes. A moist paper. [00:21:43] Absolutely. And you're right. I hadn't thought about beans and things of that. I was the person putting in for no apparent reason. Like four tablespoons of olive oil when I was doing my cook, my pressurized cook of dried beans. [00:21:56] You know, can I removed it? There was no missing it except for the four areas that it lacked. That's it. It's a lesson in kind of subtracting. [00:22:08] You know, we frequently even I think as vegans have these extra added ingredients that it's like, do you need all of that? Like, you know, like, let's say tracting and kind of honing into the classical French flavoring where it's like, you know, these singular pillars that you want to taste. Salad dressing is a good one because it's one that kind of boggles my mind as well. So you mentioning this cheese seed and water moment and as well as the broth? You know, I think broth is another thing that I always I create batches of it when I cook in my pressure pot. The electric ice pie and say, you know, you cook this vegetable stew, but then you extract all of this wonderful broth that you can satay with and perhaps make a salad dressing as you're munching. I hadn't even brainstormed that. So I'm learning something new and wondering, is it difficult to show people how when you're doing your cooking classes, is it difficult to kind of instill the idea of no animal products? Or does the switch happen quite quickly for them when they're non vegans? Do they kind of think, oh, yeah, there's a whole world out there that can substitute in? [00:23:15] I think that I have a lot of people that are still flexitarian. And that's OK. [00:23:22] I want them I want them to get used to it as much as possible, because that's a transition point. I think everybody transitions in their own way. [00:23:33] And there is no you know, there's no telling other people. So. [00:23:42] I think they get used to how to how to cook Vegan in this way. [00:23:50] Yeah. When you started your focus on looking at calories coming from fat, you know, and this kind of being a lens that you looked at. Most recipes that you're doing through, was it through a personal desire? Was it about weight loss? Was it about heart health? What was the motivation for that? [00:24:08] I had I had heard it. [00:24:11] I had I had seen the work of Dr. Esselstyn and Dr. Kim. And they are of the no oil school. And I seen it work for people. And I knew it was healthier. And I had tried it and I had lost some weight. But I didn't want to embrace it because I was used to my oil. So I went back to my oil and the weight crept back on and I said, wow, this really does work. [00:24:47] This one difference is so huge in whether or not I gain weight or not. And so I just said, OK, I'm going to formulate it that way. And then I found that you go overboard with nuts. And I know cashew nuts are our basis for a lot of different sources of mayonnaise, again, all different types of things. And so I you know, I didn't particularly like that. [00:25:15] But then when I learned how to balance it all and use a nutrition program, everything fell into place as far as making any recipe work. So I basically create them on a nutrition program. [00:25:28] And that's the key, I think a lot of your recipes and. I would think perhaps easy and seamless for you now, but I'm doing that dance between simplicity of ingredients, paint, being very, very cognizant of fat content from cow calorie content, from fat. [00:25:46] All of the things that you're paying attention to and keeping the, you know, the ingredient list. Very concise and things like that. From the recipes on your site that I've seen, it's it's a beautiful dance, you know. And really keeping that algorithm. Thank you. Place. Absolutely. I'm wondering, you've got resources on your site and one of them is about blood tests and interpreting them. Have you created that yourself? And can you talk a little bit about how you've looked at blood tests to incorporate? [00:26:11] You know, I didn't create that myself. That refers to Dr. Clapper's work. [00:26:17] And so I felt a need at one point in time to understand blood tests. And I said, what a great consumer vehicle. For me, this is all about consumerism. So I want to present to people things that make a difference and that teach people. How to empower themselves with taking care of their health. [00:26:41] And so I came across that video and a presentation by him actually saw in person at first and decided it was worth putting on there. [00:26:55] Absolutely. It seems like another attachment that you have is the brain and ideas of Alzheimer's with the Alzheimer Solution book. And I'm wondering if you like myself. There's there's incredible connection between heart disease and dementia and Alzheimer's causing things. [00:27:13] And these are paid attention to by people like Dr. Joel Kahn, who is, you know, very he's a I think, one of the fly in the nation. I've been a Vegan that are very much so considering Fat End and the Vegan diet as part of these massive contributors to heart disease. But what's interesting for me is there's always a marriage between heart disease and then, ah, Alzheimer's later or early onset dementia, things like that. Have you yourself done studies towards that? Was that part of your inclination of reaching away from oils or was it mainly the physical basis? [00:27:49] It was mainly the physical basis for me. But I have to add to that is that I have family members who have been so afflicted. [00:27:59] And it's I can tell you that I had no influence on changing anybody else's diet in that respect and that the fact that diet and keep one's vascular system intact can help that type of thing is an amazing gift. And I wish that more people knew about that and were inclined to do it. Yeah. [00:28:26] Yes, absolutely. I'm wondering, do you have any thoughts that you can share with us today regarding the covered 19 pandemic? And you're in dire endeavors to have this Vegan diet and kind of share your information on the Vegan cooking realm. Do you have a conversation that you've had with yourself about the covered 19 pandemic and the intersection between that and veganism or not so much? [00:28:50] I, I have read other people's work, which it said that. [00:28:56] Our immune system is strengthened through our diets, and I am happy to hear that. What is particularly alarming to me is that this whole thing may very well have been caused by a wet market and animal treatment and that if people didn't eat the way that they did, maybe this virus would not have happened in the first place, you know? [00:29:24] And, you know, if there is humanity, there is how we care for our fellow creatures. [00:29:31] And it would be a lot better of a world if we were all what we want to be. [00:29:36] Yeah. Very, very interesting thought. I was ruminating with a guess not too long ago who was talking to me. [00:29:46] And he said, you know, listen, it's my firm belief that in a decade or two, our grandchildren are going to look at us and say, did you really, like, continue eating animals? Like, did you continue living in this cave person like manner in 2020? And that even after the pandemic, even after it threatened to wipe out civilization and cause a whole new legs, you know, all of these warning signs. I just I feel like I can already hear the narrative coming through in my just being like, I. I don't know why we kept doing it, you know? If anything else, the food is such an attachment. [00:30:22] If there's anything that proves the emotional attachment to the cultural of food, it's it's things like this because if it were hairspray, that would be off the market in the hot second. Right now, every dog would say we're not using that kind anymore. It's we don't need it that much. We will switch formats, you know. [00:30:41] But digging your heels in and even if the wet market, you know, I don't believe it's been definitive and proven. I personally believe it probably had something to do with it and things of that nature. [00:30:52] I stay away from conspiracy, but I know that everything has an origin. And for that purpose, I simply want to learn of the origin to help prevent things like that from happening again. And if there's a play that, you know, it's e consumption of animals is dealing with future pandemics. The idea that we would not entertain switching when we have such amazing universes of alternative foods and beyond Bergrin for those hard core cattle raising people that just need that meat flavor. I think we've nailed it. You know, I think we have it. There's food. There's meat alternatives. It tastes so much like meat. I don't prefer them, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that we have these ideas and I agree with you. And to that end, I wanted to ask you, because you've been so candid, where for you do you see the future of Vegan eating going? [00:31:45] Do you do you have an idea? Do you suspect, given what's happening, where people are headed with it? Do you see an opening, a continuing opening? What do you see happening there? [00:31:55] I see the Vegan world as being a large world with different groups of people doing different things. [00:32:03] I think you're you're gonna have your people hoard junk food because you're going to have your health minded people and you're going to have your super health with people. [00:32:16] I mean, you have a lot more restaurants that are opening up with different type of things. And I love it. Being a Mexican is one of my favorite. And I see I see a whole lot of differences in in the Vegan world as far as how we cook. But I think there is a place for what I do and there is a place for the way other people might like. [00:32:42] Absolutely. I agree. Well, Jane, we are all out of time today, but I wanted to say thank you so much for taking the time to meet with us. I know that this is not your favorite format being on video and you took the time to do everything. [00:32:55] I really do appreciate you unpacking all of the work that you do on your Web site and all of the information that you have. [00:33:01] Thank you very much. I appreciate this interview and I appreciate all the work you put into it and getting to know who I was and the questions that you been back look at. Thank you very much. It was our pleasure. It's my pleasure. And for all of you listening, we've been speaking with Jane Buscemi. She's a certified plant based nutritional nutritionist and founder of Vegan Under Control. You can find out more on w w w dot Vegan and under control dot com. Thank you for giving you us your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat clean and responsibly and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am talking with Sarah Ordo. Sarah is your not so typical millennial girl just craving to make moves and leave her mark on the world! She's a bit of a do-it-all kind of girl and seriously do ALL the things. She is an entrepreneur and the owner of 24Luxe Hair & Makeup in Detroit, an on-location hair and makeup team for weddings and events. Sarah is also a licensed makeup artist, self-published author, podcast host, YouTuber, life coach, workshop creator, and most recently has begun organizing live local events!   TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with entrepreneur, author and owner of 24 Lux Hair and Makeup in Detroit, Michigan sarah Ordo. Key points addressed where Sarah's book writing regarding her personal journey through sobriety and launching of her businesses through self-awareness and unapologetic truth. We also discussed her new endeavor with her brick and mortar beauty bar that will augment her already established mobile business and the differences between these two endeavors. Stay tuned for my unabashedly honest chat with Sarah Ordo.   [00:00:35] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.   [00:01:35] And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Sarah Ordo. Sarah is an entrepreneur and owner of 24 Lux Hair and makeup in Detroit. You can find out more about all of her services and her books that we will be discussing today at W w w dot, Sarah or Dotcom. That is as a r h o r d o dot com. Welcome, Sarah.   [00:01:56] Hello. Thank you so much for having me on today.   [00:01:58] Absolutely. We're just talking before we started recording, and I'm really excited to claim to both your books as well as a lot of the industries that you're servicing and with your hair and makeup and Darrah's. So for everyone listening, I'll give you a bio on Sarah. But prior to doing that quick roadmap for today's podcast, you first look at unpacking Sarah's academic and professional life, and then we'll turn straight into kind of looking at her books. I'm going to have Sarah describe each of those and like the synopsis and as well as the ethos and the philosophy, what she was trying to communicate, who her target readership was, things of that nature. And then we'll unpack. Twenty four Lux hair and makeup and we'll get into the populations and the clientele that they have had in the past as well as their endeavors right now. They were a mobile company. And Sarah just let me know that it was a brick and mortar endeavor that's recently taken change, which is just opposite of everyone else. And I'm excited to find out about that. I like people doing things differently. And then we will kind of unpack everything that's going on within all of those endeavors before looking at Sarah's goals and advice that she has. For those of you who are looking to emulate some of her success or get involved in her efforts. A quick bio, as promised, Sarah is not yours. So typical millennial girl, just Hepp craving to make moves and leave her mark on the world. She's a bit of a do it all kind of woman. And seriously, to do all things. She's an entrepreneur and the owner of twenty four Lux hair and makeup in Detroit and on location, hair and makeup team for weddings and events. She is also a licensed makeup artist, self published author, post podcast host, YouTube, her life coach, workshop creator and most recently has begun organizing live local events. And Sarah, I will say that as I was kind of reading through one of your books, I got the feel of that. I had the I in the sense that it was written by someone who's an adviser and a coach. And I really love that. But before we start unpacking your books and kind of your authorship right there, I'm hoping that you can kind of carve out your early academic and professional life so that people get a sense of the platform that you came to writing the books and launching 24 Lux hair and makeup.   [00:04:08] Yeah, absolutely. So I definitely didn't start out with what I'm doing now, which I feel is the case for most entrepreneurs. I actually started I went to University of Michigan, Dearborn. I started as a psych major, shifted into early childhood and also started teaching preschool right after that. And then at some point during college, I decided I wanted to get my cosmetology license and my parents weren't exactly supportive of it. We're like, no, we're not paying for that. So, yeah, I have always been kind of a like, tell me I can't do something and I got to figure out how to do it. Person, though, I was actually taking night classes. Check out this other loan to go to beauty school at the same time as I was finishing college. So I actually was teaching preschool and then working at a salon on the weekends because I really wanted to do that. And I felt like I had to do both. Like I couldn't just do one. So around the time I was like a year into teaching, though, I was just like, I'm not coming back like. I made the decision. I loved the children. I loved that aspect of it. But I wanted to do something on my own. I wanted to be more creative. And I was not a sit at a desk and write lesson plans everyday kind of person. That just really wasn't me. So I left teaching. I started twenty four Lux hair and makeup in 2013 and it started in my one bedroom apartment at my dining room table and I would literally do people's makeup for forty dollars, anyone that would love me. And that was kind of how. By like Entrepreneurial Beast came to be. I kinda like to say like that's where it all started. I started this like, oh, I'm gonna hustle, I'm going to build this business. Yeah. And I started that 24 luck started to build. We've won awards like everything there just had continuous momentum and we started to build our team and everything. And then around 2015 was when I actually got sober. So I am five years sober now. And graduation's you know, around that time, I just kind of thought the beauty industry was what I was gonna do and that was it. And I got sober, started seeing a therapist, had a dream one day that I found a book on the floor and it was pictures of me in the book and it was me drunk. And it was my story in the book that I literally went to therapy and I was like, if I just write a book, is this a. Like, what do I do? And so I give my therapist was like very supportive about it. She was like, you know, if anything, maybe it'll be therapeutic for you. Like, maybe just process everything, go through all the feelings, the emotions journal about it. And I had created a YouTube channel because I want to be like a beauty blogger at some point. And I had that going. And it it wasn't big. Like not a lot of people were watching it. And one day I just sat down with my phone and I recorded a video called My Sober Story Why I Got Sober. And the video just kind of like blew up. Yeah. And all of a sudden, I was kind of like brought into this new world where there were all these women in the online space and in the online community kind of looking for help, looking for personal development, looking for support, especially in sobriety, because at the time I was twenty six years old, there weren't a lot of women talking about being sober at twenty six. Yeah. So instantly I had all these women reaching out to me like, oh my God, how do we. I was just like you. Like what did you do. What worked for you. Like asking me questions. And that was honestly what kind of opened my eyes to this whole other world I'm in now. Where I started, I self published my first book in 2017. I started my podcast. I started doing online courses and coaching. I started doing events and speaking from all my experiences. So I really didn't have to be like, you know, formal academic background for any of these other things that I'm doing now. You know, I have my cosmetology license and I have a degree, but something completely unrelated. So it's very it's very interesting where people are like, oh, did you go to school? Like, what would you do? And I'm like, oh, there's all this stuff. I just kind of like self learned along the way and taught myself.   [00:08:18] Well, I think 90 percent of it's like that, though, you know, and this is a whole nother podcast. But academia for me is about life of the higher mind. It's not really about applicable knowledge or on the job training. And so for me, it's incredibly valid for those that know me. I'm a passionate academic and I support the institution because I like the idea of it. But as far as like it honing a career that's trade school, that's totally different. You know, it's a completely different thing. And so it's funny for me when I think about jobs that require bachelor's degree and like, really? So are you hoping that they analyze that through that, you know, Confucius knowledge lens, then?   [00:08:57] It's like, no, why are you a five for it?   [00:08:59] But I think it shows other skills naturally. But I do agree with what you're saying. And there's no school anyway. Even if you had gone to school for there's no class called entrepreneurship, you know, build your own business. Those all of those things are self-taught as you have along the way. You could have dropped in that you in 2017. You wrote your first book. I have a down his inner bloom, finding the true inner happiness and creative and creating your best life.   [00:09:24] So sober as fuck was actually my first book, OK.   [00:09:27] Enter Bloom with second. So everything was in there. It was right in the beginning. Yeah. So it was the same year was it 2017.   [00:09:35] It was I want to say it was because I was a psycho, I have nine self publish pieces of Amazon now.   [00:09:42] Yeah, excellent. I have great.   [00:09:45] I mean, they're not awful like the books. I have workbooks. I have journals. Like, I have a couple of different. Some more like quick read books. But after I wrote over as spoke, I became so addicted to the process that I literally started writing interleave immediately because I was like, oh my God, I wrote a book like, I have so much more to say now. Like now I'm in it. I'm in a new place. Like I have different things to say after I'm past, you know, the beginning of my sobriety. So that was kind of what led to writing in bloom.   [00:10:11] So as sober as fuck your sobriety story and why and what it offer you. So if that's the case, does it begin with your bottom and then end with your final acceptance of sober life? And if so, what can you kind of draw us through like in ten sentences or less like what you kind of go through in that journey and when you choose to share as opposed to what you choose to exclude.   [00:10:34] Yes. So I'm pretty I'm pretty candid at it. Like it's a pretty, pretty open book, literally. It starts kind of talking about a little bit touching on my background, but it pretty quickly dives into my rock bottom. I was hospitalized. I had to be taken to the emergency room. I drink such a large amount and I took drugs, a lethal combination on top of it, and my body just started shutting down. So I did have a, you know, life threatening experience where I almost didn't walk out of it alive. So I walk everyone through that. And then also, you know, I decided to get sober and I was like, OK, I'm going to do this. I got to get sober, like, kind of naively thinking it was going to be easy and sober as fuck really dives deeper into the first two years of my sobriety, because the first I would say, like between six months to a year were horrible. Like I went into deep depressions. I got to the lowest lows I've ever been in. And it was because I was fighting the help. I wasn't open to accepting all the help and resources that were out there. I was trying to just do it on my own. After I opened up to that, it kind of follows the journey of going through my second year in sobriety where I really did come to accept everything and start this new life, which was ultimately so much better than what I left behind.   [00:11:46] Absolutely. Was that it? Was it inspirational for inner blue, like as you started to kind of come out of that difficult selves to a year? Absolutely.   [00:11:54] Because after that, I was like at the end of that book, like after two years, it became kind of like my relentless thing in life that I was like, I want to create my best life possible. Like, I'm here now. I did this. I have the second chance and I don't wanna take it for granted. So, like, how do I make it my best life possible? How do I make every day the best day? And that's what Inner Bloom really is about. It was how I started changing things in my life. What I started practicing in my everyday life that really gave me, like, true inner happiness. Aside from all the external factors.   [00:12:24] Yeah, I see the trend, the trajectory now. Like, especially between the books, because sober as fuck and enter bloom from what you just described. Those both are like the stepping stones up to. Not sorry.   [00:12:37] Which I'm hoping is, you know, somewhere around your third, because that's what I have in my notes as it's my rose. Recent one. So. Yeah. OK.   [00:12:43] Your most recent I looked at I looked through that and. Yeah. Yeah. And you and I talked before we got on and I want you to walk people through it, but it does have kind of the notes. So it's not sorry. Living your most confident, vibrant and unapologetic life. And you do have this. This. The rhetoric to me is so constant and powerful about like it's this is you know, this is your time now. Like, you need to tap into who you are and make sure that you stay very transparently, not only honest to yourself, but to your environment, like those around you, like keeping everyone on the exact same line and page. And so it makes sense that you start off, you know, with your sober journey and then climb into the inner bloom and really finding out you because it feels like not sorry is about putting it out there in front of your reality after you've come until the mental awareness. But I want you can describe for everyone listening. What inspired you to write? Not sorry, especially because you have such a body of work before it. And who is the reader? Who were you writing for or to in describing it? And what is like the shape and the body of the book.   [00:13:51] Yeah. So I went obviously from sobriety. I have a few books in between that are a little bit more like personal development still. But once I don't know what it was, once I got into my thirties, it was like. I don't know if it was age. I don't know. It just fully accepting myself finally. But I started to notice in myself and then it was ultimately who I wrote the book for was that there were so many women, myself included, that we were like, oh, I'm living my best life. And we're like sharing all the quotes. I'm like, Oh, I'm happy. You look at me. I'm doing all the things like, you know, if we're single, we're acting like we're happy, single. We don't need anybody. Like we're always posting and sharing all these things, talking about how great we are. But then I would catch myself at the same time, you know, having someone criticize something I did and I was internalizing it and being like, oh, my God, maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe I should change that. Maybe I should do this differently. Like, why is this person upset about it? And just taking on a lot of outside things? Again, whether it was criticism of people's opinions, whether it was trolls on the Internet. And I saw so many women out there that we were like acting like we were fully authentic, acting like we were unapologetic and we didn't care what anyone else was saying. But then at the same time, still internalizing those things and not fully stepping into that woman that we were wanting to be. And so that was what really inspired me to write the book. It was finally like I had no criticism. I had things happening in my life. I had boundaries that were getting crossed in my life that I didn't want to get cross. And it was finally like, you know what? Like I'm not fucking sorry. Like I'm going to live my life the way that I want to live it, the way that I feel confident, as vibrant as I want to be, if I want to be, you know, quote, extra, if that makes me happy, if I'm not hurting or harming anyone else, why does anyone get to have a problem with it? And why do I need to apologize for what that authentic version of me really looks like? And so it really did just become this book of like preach mode to, like, be yourself. Stop giving a shit about what everyone else thinks. Stop internalizing the things that don't really matter. Stop watering yourself down. Stop whispering when you want to scream and say things out loud and really just not apologizing for who you want to be in your life anymore.   [00:16:05] Absolutely. And it felt a lot to me. Like what, Deena? There is a stereotypical and it's a good stereotype that in your 30s you genuinely start to begin to live life for you, you know, and prior to that, we're just inundated and for good reason.   [00:16:19] You know, when you're five, you need to heed to all the advice around you so you don't get hit by a car. Like there's different things of that that are a good reason. In our twenties, we're still paying a lot of heed to social cues so that we can become valuable members of society and hopefully compassionate and things of that nature. But I think that it's I did get that kind of like, listen, you know, take stock in all of the lessons you've learned, but for certain, start to live life for yourself. And however that makes you happy. And the emphasis on, you know, making sure that it's it's good for you and your environment and stuff like that, I think that that's so crucial.   [00:16:53] And I encourage everyone to jump on and check it out. It sounds like you have an entire library I haven't looked at. Yes, I do. That's awesome. I love that. I think it's so rad to be self published.   [00:17:03] I think to have a prolific experience with it like you have is rare. And it means that you're probably meant to do more of it. You know, when people do things that such a prolific nature, it seems to be part of their DNA for the like zone of genius. I kind of want to get into 24 hour or twenty four Lux hair and makeup now because we were talking before we started. And a lot of people who know me or listen to the podcast knows that I have a history of fashion photography. So I run deep, you know, decades with makeup and hair stylist and makeup artists and cosmetologists, people all in that field as they approach fashion. And I was telling you, I haven't spoken to anyone in the industry that you have largely served, which has Freital.   [00:17:49] Yes. So I'll answer it, though. OK.   [00:17:53] Honestly, I've never been on a photography set that wasn't filled with enough frenetic energy, especially mine. People would call them like stressful, but like I like that energy. So that's exciting for me. I can handle that. I am actually productive. I ride that wave, but me too. I thrive on chaos. I always say that. I've got. That's right. Yes. But is your chaos, that actually freaks me out. And it's because your client is stressed and my client was usually never there.   [00:18:22] And if they were, it was a controlled environment. I had ways of dealing with the client. You know, I was gonna do my work. I was going to capture my artistry. I was going to capture all of my buddy's artistry with the makeup and hair, the models, artistry with their, you know, their dynamic and posing and things like that.   [00:18:37] But the client and being around was never my favorite and let alone the client being the receiver of the product. And on one of the world's most stressful days, my most favorite thing to say about brides is that the most innocent like Gandhi, Buddha like figure, we'll see for some reason try to mess with a bride or groom on their wedding day. It's the weirdest phenomena of life, but I promise you, someone's. Ram mother, who is normally a seat, her grandfather will just slide a little bit like something weird, like a comment.   [00:19:12] Yeah, a little common or like, hey, did you take out your trash? I think you need to re park your car and you're like homegirls getting married in two hours. And why are you doing this to them? So you have a very fragile creature already stressed out, usually underfed and under slept maybe a little a drinking thing or coffee. Take us what the other. And then you have all of these and then you're saying, now let me satisfy you. I'm like, I don't think you can create a more perfect storm of someone harder to satisfy. And that gives me hives thinking about it. I'm like, I can't. Like, I don't know how you perform in those environments.   [00:19:49] I want to get into why you chose that industry and some of the techniques that you use. And I'm like how your response has been. What are the pitfalls like? It's it's an area that everybody wants to tee off. So, yeah. Walk us through some of that.   [00:20:04] Yeah. So I first got into weddings because I started I have a cosmetology license. I was doing hair. To be honest, I like doing here. I still like doing some hair. I just didn't like being in like in a hair salon. I really liked the makeup side of things. I really liked the artistry side of makeup more. And I remember I was at a salon and I asked them, like, could I do makeup here? And they were like, oh, we are to have one that does it. And like, she was older and they were like, you don't want to hurt her feelings. And I was like, OK. So I kind of just started, you know, like I mentioned earlier, like doing girls for prom, doing things for events. And, you know, eventually someone asked me if I would do their makeup for their wedding. And I was like, oh, sure. Like, OK. And then someone literally asked me, they're like, why don't you do this? Like, why don't you just do this? And I was like, why don't I do this? Like, this is so true. And it was interesting because when I started the business in 2013, there weren't as many mobile teams. Now there's a ton. Everybody's got a bridal team now, like everybody has either a team from a salon that'll come on location or they're a strictly mobile teams. And the reason I honestly started the business was, I mean, No. One, I just loved doing makeup. But in the Detroit area, it's not like New York. It's not like L.A. It's not like Chicago where people have these glamorous events and they're not paying to get their makeup done for photo shoots all the time. There's not as much of a constant as far as just doing like everyday makeup for people. You know, there's people that don't get it for, you know, family photos, you know, for their weddings, whatever. But I learned very quickly that if I wanted some sort of consistent income doing makeup, I kind of had to get into a specific area of it. It was either going to be commercial. I was gonna work at a counter or then wedding popped up and it was like, oh, people are always getting married. There's lots of weddings every year. So that was what kind of got me into it. And to speak on what you said about brides and everything. It's really funny because we've definitely had the meltdowns. We've definitely had those people. For some reason, we always laugh. I, for some reason can handle really crazy people. I don't know what it is. I have a tendency to just, like, be very nice, like, OK, you know what? We're going to fix it. Everything's fine. Let's do this. Sit down, girl. Chill. We got it. Like, I'm just very good at diffusing things. But I will also say we always have everyone ask and be like, oh my God. Like, what's your bride zilla stories like tell us. You probably have so many bride zilla stories and we always laugh because we're like ninety five percent of the time. It's not a bride. It's like you mentioned, it's like an aunt that feels really over titled or like a random bridesmaid that's like, you know, maybe not feeling so great that day and doesn't like how our dress fits.   [00:22:47] And so she's like nit picking everything about herself and she doesn't like her makeup, just like her hair. And she feels like her face looks big, you know, just kinda like tearing yourself apart or, you know, sometimes there's a mom that's saying things that are not supportive on a wedding day. And, you know, brides start crying like there's so many dynamics because there's so many people and family members and emotions, which I mean, like you throw in a female family members in a room, you're bound to have some, you know, hormones going crazy. They're already and then throw in a wedding day.   [00:23:18] But, yeah, we always laugh because most the time it's not the bride, it's someone else that's either being overdramatic or feels over tight. Old adage kinda like blows up a situation, but I really do love weddings. I like fast pace. It's always somewhere different. It's always different people. It's change of scenery. We get to go to different hotels, then use downtown balms like we're literally always in different places, which I really love and you know. Ninety nine percent of the time the rides are really excited and they're really happy. And it's just it's a really cool experience to be there with them on such an important day of their life and to be in such an intimate position with them where, you know, you're doing something like putting on their makeup, where it's going to make them feel even more. Beautiful on their special day. And you get to be a part of that.   [00:24:07] Absolutely. And that's a good way of looking at it. You are bringing out a beauty and joy to someone's important day window.   [00:24:13] So I want to get into some of the logistics. I forgot to do that in my hyper activity to jump straight into the teeth. When was when was it founded? Like, did you have a year? Did you take any funding? And no. No funding. OK. And when was your first hire? When did you first kind of start. OK.   [00:24:31] So I this is totally not what I would recommend to anyone. But in the beginning when it was just me, I would call my friends. I knew that did hair and be like, hey, do you I do this wedding with me. I'll just give you cash. So it was very not legit for a very long time. Yeah. So obviously, as we got bigger, we had a little bit more legitimate. But because we were a mobile team, we didn't have any overhead in the beginning. So I didn't have to borrow any funding. We didn't have a location. We didn't have I mean, we literally had nothing. I had my makeup kit already. People at hair survive, like we literally didn't have to buy things started. So it was very low cost to start. I can say now that we've expanded and brought on more people within the last year or so and now we have more than one team that will go out on any given day. So we can do more weddings. And with this new chapter, with our beauty bar opening now in 2020. That was a whole nother monster. That was a whole nother beast for me to tackle because I had never had a brick and mortar. I had never had any experience with anything like that. And I just kind of being my go get herself like Dover. Like, yeah, we're gonna do this. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, he's open to that. That was definitely a lot more expensive, a lot more moving pieces, a lot more legal.   [00:25:50] Signed the lease for this like just as Kofod set in.   [00:25:54] Yes. Huh. Like a couple of weeks before it started. Welcome. Yeah, I cried.   [00:26:00] Was it bare bones? Did you have to build out? Spaces can vary. You can get into it like an already outfitted space. You can take over a former beauty bar, which already has a lot of things tricked out. What was your space like? How much like did you have to do to deal with that?   [00:26:13] Yeah. So the. We found one space originally that we really, really liked and it was actually funny enough, like now looking back like it doesn't make sense. It was hundreds of dollars more per month than the one we ended up in. And it was literally bare bones. They were kind of like arguing with us every time we were talking about things we would want to change because he had done the renovations himself. It was like an older gentleman and you just start to get the vibe. He didn't really want you to change what he did because he felt like he did it and it was good enough. So he was kind of like beating down all these, like build out things we were proposing. And then ultimately, they just rejected our offer. And I was heartbroken because I loved the location initially. But within a few days, we found this new location and it was less per month. It's actually an old fire station. So it has original exposed brick. It has like these white beautiful pillars. It's got huge windows. It's in a downtown historic area. It's got the original wood like ship lap walling where they used to pin up like the papers and stuff. So it had so much character.   [00:27:20] You'd already had rooms built in it, wood floors, like it was like, oh, good thing this didn't work out for a reason because this was so much better. So we didn't have to do too much build out. We had to build one room because we are going to offer micro bleeding, which is very, very strict because it's considered tattooing. So you have to have the health department come out and inspect and license your facility. So that was the only thing we actually had to create a room for that. But other than that, all we had to do was we replaced some flooring and one of the rooms just really like had to furnish the whole place and decorate it and do all that stuff.   [00:27:58] So when you say a beauty bar, what kind of that's a blanket term? It can be a lot of different things. So what services do you offer? And how did you curate what services you were going to offer or not offer? Like you just mentioned, micro blading. I was thinking men's bar was stuck like that. So how did you kind of curious what services and what services do you offer?   [00:28:17] Yes. So I personally worked for a benefit cosmetics part time for seven years. I sold their cosmetics and then I also worked. They have a brow bar. They have a waxing counter. So I literally was doing eyebrow waxing and tending for seven years straight.   [00:28:31] Just part time as I was building all my other businesses as kind of like my safety money. So I had all this experience and I had all these clients. And when I left there, all these people were like, can we come in your house and get our eyebrows started? And I was like, no, I don't know what to do. That's weird. Yeah. And I but at the same time, like, I've always loved that client relationship and those people were like regular clients, like I knew them, like they knew me back before I even met my husband when I was working there. So I, I kind of had this thought of like I like I kind of want to keep these clients. So I definitely right off the bat was like, OK, we'll do a brow bar. We can do brow waxing and tinting there for sure. So that was gonna be like my component of it. And then obviously the makeup was going to come in there as well, because we're all and a couple of my girlfriends, like we all do makeup and we added spray tanning. One of my girls just got certified and spray tanning and then we have eyelash extensions. It's actually the girl that's been doing my eyelash extensions for almost two years. I've been telling her for at least the past year that it was my goal in life to get her to work for me. So that came through. I came there. Yeah. So, yeah, we have healthy brown our makeup tanning extensions. We have two. The microblogging process is taking a little bit longer just because it's so much health department regulation. So we go through a couple more in-depth inspections still and then we're also probably gonna offer facials in that room just because it's already going to be kind of set up for it. Yeah, and we kind of like the way I kind of decide what we going to do there. Like, I knew what I was going to do, but I took on this. I've always loved helping other women, like, build and expand. So I had, you know, these several girls I knew also in the industry, they're all a little bit younger than me. They're all in their 20s, very eager, very excited, very talented. And I was like, hey. We all want to come to this, if you like. I would love to help you build your business like you asked me in the face with me, like it'll be so much fun together. So that was kind of how we factored in who was going to be working there and what services we were going to offer. I definitely didn't want to get into the hair department. There is a whole other level of licensing that I was just like, I'm not I'm not a hair stylist anymore. Like, what are you doing here?   [00:30:45] So we unida here if it's just me, but I don't really like I don't like the mixture and maybe I'm just old, like, I don't know what it is, but like I don't intend to get. And yeah, the, the eyebrows or the eyelash extensions or at the hair salon, it's like waxing at the nail salon. I think a lot of people do, but I like different stories.   [00:31:09] Oh I hear that all the time.   [00:31:11] I would have so many clients that came to me at the Rahbar and they were like, can you fix my eyebrows? I got done at the nail place and I'm like, girl. Like when you pay for a seven dollar eyebrow wax, like you're gonna get a seven dollar eyebrow.   [00:31:22] Yeah, exactly. So you definitely have kind of like that.   [00:31:26] You should do it like it's more of like the beauty like pampering enhancement side then like hair maintenance kind of thing.   [00:31:33] Nice. What did you. How did you decide your business model? Does that something you learned along the way or did you like. I mean, that's all varies. That whole industry is like the Wild West and really rent space. You can do a salary. You can do an hourly. There's so many different things. How did you decide?   [00:31:50] So I literally clueless going into it. Didn't have too much business background about how to do this. I honestly just started researching.   [00:31:58] I looked at our costs, our expenses, talked to the girls about what would work best for them because, you know, if they don't have a full clientele, it doesn't really make sense for them to do booth rent because then they're losing money. So we all kind of just like power out on numbers. My husband is way more good on money stuff than I am. So he helped me with a lot of that, too.   [00:32:17] But we've actually gotten it set up to a place where we can cover a portion of our rent with our booth rent girls that are in there, which is really nice because a lot of places, you know, in the beginning, you're just struggling to like get to profit where it kind of gives us a leg up on that from the get go.   [00:32:34] Absolutely. That's really cool. It sounds like you've done it right, too. I'm curious with, like, the micro blending, it sounds like you already have like some future plans planned out.   [00:32:42] Have you looked forward to even just like daydreaming about the next one to three years, particularly in the brick and mortar, because it's your latest scene and baby, but also speaking to, you know, the and the hair and makeup with the bridal. Do you have future plans for the next one to three years? I think post covered, you know, with these restrained open backup buds as they start to do even more so in the winter and spring when we get a vaccination. What are your future plans with both endeavors?   [00:33:11] So right now, we were just talking about it today, were like were busy, we're busier than we. I mean, like I knew we were going to be busy, but like, it's becoming very quickly. Like it's catching speed quicker than we thought it was going to. So, like, we're in a point where people are literally already contacting me, like I want to get eyelashes and I can't get until the end of July. And I'm like.   [00:33:32] Sorry.   [00:33:34] That is all we have right now. I mean, we just opened.   [00:33:37] But like, so weird. It's funny. We were literally just sitting outside this morning having your conversation about it. We have the potential. One day there's a way you can sign these things with leases. Unstuff where it's a our building is conjoined with a second business. So we we actually signed something saying that if the other person was to leave, that we would have first opportunity if we wanted the business next door. So my husband is already reeling with the ideas. He's like, oh my God, we could open this up and then you going to have a whole other thing here. You could hire like four more last. So he's already like ten steps ahead. So that's something we definitely have in thinking about how we could expand that even more. The bridal teams, honestly, we I feel like we're just gonna keep growing that every year. I feel like at some point I'm gonna max out how many people I want to be on TV just because it's so many moving pieces with that and so many people traveling and scheduling it. It's a whole nother ballgame with that one. But I'm excited because, I mean, it's really it's taken speed a lot quicker than I thought it was going to as far as the beauty bar or so. It'll be interesting to kind of see how it goes from here.   [00:34:49] Yeah, it's a different beast and it should impact. You know, it's not like it's like having one child and keeping it separate from the other one you had. They're both going to have communication and conversation and movement between the two. It'll be interesting to see. So I'm curious, we're kind of at the point now and our podcast, that is my favorite part for this, if everyone who listens. But I wanted to when I designed this question, it was long before Cauvin and it was awesome to kind of show people amea back in their face and to give people that like your top three Bible pieces.   [00:35:22] But I'm curious if you were in a park in beautiful Detroit tomorrow and so save social distance and a woman or a female identified non binary individual. Anyone other than a straight cis gendered white man walked up to you and said, listen, I have you know, I have degrees in areas that don't pertain to what I'm doing now. I've kind of bounced all over. I have this incredibly prolific writing career that came out of like an original journey of getting sober and moving forward and launching businesses. I'm getting ready to do brick and mortar for the first time. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual? Knowing what you know now after everything you've gone through.   [00:36:03] Yeah. Chase your big dreams because they're not too big. Because I thought they were scary. I did it so I could do what anybody else. Definitely be open to help. Because I'm the one that tries to do all the things and think I can do it on my own and sometimes I can't. And I need to be open to people helping me.   [00:36:22] And to be daring but safe.   [00:36:28] Very contradictory. Yeah. But definitely, like, I just to like, unpack that a little bit. Like I am someone who is always daring. I jump in, I'm like, I want to try this. I'm going to try to do it. Here we go. Like I jump all in. But I also am financially not stupid about it, if that makes sense. Yeah. I'm not going to drain my bank accounts and be like, let's see if this works. Like, I would never put us in that situation. I'll figure out a way to make it work. But I'm not going to be overly risky when I do it absent like some people do.   [00:37:00] I did too.   [00:37:01] And I think it's the only piece of people really regret, you know, is when they lose the house. It's like it's everything else you're like. You know, I lost a lot of sleep that year. This that the other I had to bike to work, whatever it is. But where are you when you go financially to a place where you've kind of changed your quality of life, everything goes downhill. Even wanted to success story after that, they're like, oh, that was awful. Yes. No, I've got chase your big dreams. You're not as big and and obtainable as you think. Open. Stay open to help.   [00:37:34] And it sounds like tied into that is also like getting ready to outsource the. Jill. Of all trades, even though you can be and be daring but safe and be financially safe but emotionally daring.   [00:37:46] Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. Thank you so much for your time today, Sara. I loved learning about everything that you're doing with 24 hour le sorry, 24 hour 24 leks hair and makeup as well as the beauty bar. What is the name of the beauty bar?   [00:38:00] The same 24 hour Lux beauty, right? Yep. Oh, cool.   [00:38:03] I love that. I love hearing about all of that and your books as well. I encourage everyone to get on and check out at least the one I read.   [00:38:09] Not sorry. Living your most confident, vibrant and unapologetic life. Who's awesome. And I appreciate you talking to us.   [00:38:16] Thank you so much for having me on today.   [00:38:17] Yeah. And for everyone listening, I appreciate your time. We've been speaking with Sarah Ordo. She's an entrepreneur and owner and author. You can find out more about everything we've talked about today on her website. W w w dot Sarah or dot dot com.   [00:38:32] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself, Slainte.  

In Ep 4 of 4, you will meet my guests, Rev. Ariel Patricia and Kathleen O'Keefe-Kanavos who are the #1 best-selling Amazon book Crappy to Happy co-authors, and James Redfield who wrote the book's forward will also be with us. The co-authors' enlighten us with their personal stories. They will share how the book Crappy to Happy came to be. And why they felt 2020, during the time of a COVID-19 global pandemic, was a perfect time to share this compilation of over 30 short stories of Love and Relationships; Health and Well-Being; Grief and Loss; Life Journey and Identity. SO TUNE IN. This is a must see!Visit my social media to find out the guest list Tuesday, 11/3/2020, election night for those of you in the U.S.A. 6 EST right here on The Coach Peggy Show.

Today I am chatting with Penelope Fry. Penelope is the international consultant and vegan market expert founder of vegan marketing agency jacoi.com and manager of sites like veganireland.org, where she helps people work and do business in the plant-based market. At home, she loves vegan market statistics, bicycles, vegan junk food, and cat memes. Key points addressed were  Penelope’s extensive expertise and advice therein regarding company’s incorporating vegan aspects into their curriculumWe also discussed the rapidly changing global ethos regarding vegan products, companies, and financial markets TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with international consultant and Vegan market expert Penelope Fry. Key points addressed where Penelope's extensive expertize and advice there in regarding companies incorporating Vegan aspects into their curriculum. We also discuss the rapidly changing global ethos regarding Vegan products, companies and financial markets. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Penelope Fry. [00:00:33] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Dot, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:29] Hi, everyone, welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I'm delighted to be sitting down with Penelope Fry. Penelope is an international consultant and Vegan market expert. You can find out more about everything Penelope is involved in, as well as everything we talk about today on her company Web site, decoy dot com. That is Jayce. Oh, I dot com. Welcome, Penelope. [00:01:51] I'm very happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. [00:01:55] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, I will read a brief bio on Penelope. But prior to getting to that. A quick roadmap for today's podcast. You can find follow the trajectory and the line in which our inquiry will be based out of. We will first have Penelope unpack her personal story and narrative as it relates to veganism. And then we'll look at Chicoy and the efforts and endeavors that Penelope involves in the Vegan efforts within that. We'll also look at the consulting and different narratives that Penelope. Techniques and things like that that she has involved in in her Vegan life. We'll wrap everything up with looking at some of the ethos of what Dacoit is, as well as where Penelope is headed with her future endeavors and goals. [00:02:38] And then we'll wrap the entire podcast up with rapid fire questions that we have pulled from people who have been listening in our audience and submitted to our website regarding questions of one inquiry with her area of expertize. As promised, a really quick background and bio on pilot Penelope. Penelope Fry is the Internation International consultant and Vegan market expert, founder of Vegan marketing agency Chicoy AECOM and manager of sites like Vegan Ireland dot org, where she helps people work and do business in the plant based market at home. She loves Vegan market statistics, bicycle's Vegan junk food and cat names. So Penelope and I know you function in a lot of different areas and I kind of want to have you unpack that for everyone listening, because I know you you kind of get around the globe, so to speak. And so I'm hoping you can kind of draw us a picture of your platform or your personal Vegan story comes from and kind of all the different areas that you're working in right now. Before we unpack, Chicoy, Acom. [00:03:39] Sure, no problem. I started my life in Australia and my family is split between the UK and Australia. So. I basically started in the beef capital of Australia, of all places, which is a small town called Rockhampton. From there, I've managed to have some great opportunities through a couple of university degrees and then into consulting work, which was largely soul destroying standard corporate consulting work. And from there, I've established a very large network, both professionally and socially within the Vegan scene and the broader plant based scene. And I had the opportunity to bring these two together. And so it's been a fantastic journey from the beef capital of Australia. Now to the Middle East, where I'm sitting today stuck with Cober 90. And yeah. And and the UK as well. So it's essentially. For me, Chicoy is quite simple. It's as we as we said, it's helping people work and do business in the Vegan market. My focus is really quite straightforward. I work with teams on copywriting web page development, market research, confidential surveys as well, and general content development aligned with business strategy in terms of my origins in the Vegan lifestyle. I started off looking after ducklings, of all things, my friends. My friends are given ducklings by their father. And. We raised them as children together for a year, and then my my father, my friend's father killed the ducks and served them to us for Christmas lunch, and the poor chap stood there completely confused by the fact we were sitting around the table crying together, rather rather upset because we'd really bonded with these lovely, friendly little souls that would greet us in the garden as we came home. Go. And from there, I went to visit a friend's house and they had a cattle station. And I witnessed some really dreadful animal cruelty when I was helping mustering on horseback, and I had sort of made the decision I didn't want to eat duck. And then I I made the decision. I just want to eat beef anymore. And I had no idea that a vegetarian or a vegan even existed until my tastes. But I just knew that I I was I was really uncomfortable with the way that we were treating other sentient beings. Then through my environmental science degree, which is my first degree, I learned about fisheries economics and the impact on the Great Barrier Reef, which is adjacent to the town of Rockhampton. And I moved into capital city life and big city life. And I met other people who shared my values and I learned about vegetarianism at first. And then, yeah, I had the opportunity to go vegan around the time they were inventing the very first soy based ice cream, which really wasn't. It wasn't all that great, but it was just enough to be the final gift for me. And I haven't looked back. [00:07:49] Yeah, I have to say, the advent, I say this a lot. And I'm sure the audience is tired of hearing me say it. [00:07:55] But I feel like even in the past five years, Vegan substitutes for other articles, not just meat. I never preferred the taste of meat as a child. So that wasn't difficult. [00:08:05] But cheeses and things like that that I think Greece nailed about 10 years ago. It just took forever to come over to the states. But ice cream and things of that nature, you know, they've in the past five years just leaps and bounds from what it was, say, 10 years ago. [00:08:21] So I feel your pain and remembering the beginning versions of that thing. Kind of a weird consistency in flavor. I'm curious with you personally, how do you feel about cooking and Vegan food? You've called yourself a kind of a junk food vegan. How can you explain a little bit more about Stree with that? [00:08:45] Yes, absolutely. A junk food vegan. And I'm a very lazy B into. It's terrible to admit it that I really have to earn it. [00:08:56] My friends are fantastic cooks and I have a reputation for the worst meal at the potluck lunch when we have our own get togethers. But I continue to have enthusiasm in my cooking, much to everybody's dismay when I go out. That's when I get to really enjoy great Vegan food. [00:09:22] So I'm willing to spend good money for parties satisfying tasty, incredible food that I can't get at heart. And there's so much more to the vegan lifestyle than, you know, than food, obviously. [00:09:39] But when you're cooking, isn't that flash? You really appreciate a really great meal, especially if it's a greasy breakfast. It's just fantastic. [00:09:53] Absolutely. And it's I mean, it's kind of you know, you've talked about how it's the impetus for you kind of climbing into Chicoy. I think that Jacoway is well, and I'm not sure we will get into when it was launched and things of that nature and how long you've been around. [00:10:08] But I feel like now is the time for companies like yours and Dacoit. You know, this idea of you talked about how, you know, Vegan already Vegan companies are obviously welcome, but you also have this endeavor to kind of help, you know, persuade current companies swopping in Vegan alternatives for products that they have. Can we climb into you like at this point? When was Decoy launched and what was the impetus for you starting it? [00:10:35] Officially, it started just at the start of last year. So. My background is in international consulting, and I've dealt with both Vegan and non Vegan businesses and products. And it was, as I said before, it was really quite soul destroying to to work on on projects that weren't aligned with my values. So I saw an opportunity to sort of bring discipline into my own side, hustle activities and just rule out working with with people and on projects that I didn't feel comfortable with. So out of that sort of those a couple of years where I was integrating some of those side hustle activities and also my in my professional life and that I formalized Chicoy at the start of last year. And it's it's been fantastic to have support and to have fabulous people working with me on the journey. And now was covered 19, unfortunately, but also fortunately, there's been a really great opportunity to bring talent into the Vegan market as people have unfortunately lost their their core roles and they've pivoted to their side hustle. So we have fantastic Web developers and other talented people now really throwing that their energy into work that they love. And we've we've had some good opportunities associated with that. Also, the demand for Vegan products and services has has shocked everybody. There's been a huge growth in especially plant based protein alternatives, meat alternatives. It's it's just incredible. And that's we could talk a little bit more about that later. [00:12:43] Well, there is. And that was building. It's interesting. [00:12:46] And the pandemic, you know, has had a narrative all unto itself, of course, but it was building, especially in other markets. I've just kind of started learning about. I was in Australia actually, when the pandemic and the shelter in place order was put into place. And I was kind of covering more about the Vegan enterprise there as Visit Ireland yearly. And so I'm very well aware of how that scene has eventuated there. But there are different parts in Europe. You know, Europe as well. For myself, being from the states, it's smaller per country, but it has its own theme is particularly when it comes to things like that are so culturally integrated as veganism, but within that, within the economy of each country, I think it's been received very differently as well. But in the States, you know, you had beyond burger and be impossible burger beyond meat. All of these things starting to gain a lot of financial viability and become very lucrative. And then that was affecting things and then the pandemic hit. And I think that that really satiated. You know, we also had the documentaries that came out. Yes. Finding people to have reexamined their dialog with their diet, you know, as it related to the environment, as it related to sustainability. In addition to health and Lenz's, I think that we're already being applied. But that's why I was curious, because it seems like it was auspicious for you to launch Chicoy right. During this time period because you couldn't have known, you know, Kovac was coming out and no one could. And are treacherous nature that would take place. But also this kind of this force of nature to have. You know, most people on this globe reexamined their relationship with food and its origins and what we're doing. And so I think that the economy, once it comes back, there will be a great deal of effort in the globe over towards looking at Vegan endeavors. And so when I looked at your company and dacoit, I thought, this is just fascinating. And I want you to kind of unpack what it is, what clientele, what is your profile of your client look like? Who are you helping and what kind of techniques? What endeavors are you doing with your efforts? [00:14:58] Oh, well, the average client at the moment is twofold. One is your your sort of small scale small business operator who's looking for practical help as they set up their their website or they try to upgrade their website. And we're talking about subscription packages for regular content where we can help them by understanding the message they'd like to give. And we'll research the key words and really understand how they can position themselves in relation to the competition. [00:15:40] And also in the face of the pressure of search engine optimization and all those sorts of practical aspects as well. And, you know, the role is really a doing role as much as an advising role. [00:15:54] At the end of the day, you have to actually create content that you can then market. If you don't have anything to say, you really you're invisible and you're not competitive. So part of my role is to work directly with the clients. I'm supported by freelancers and subcontractors. But I try to make sure that I do as much of the actual doing work. You know, the content development work myself. And also the other aspect is creating content that I'll use for affiliate marketing revenue and influence revenue for the businesses itself as well. And finally, although it's not necessarily profit driven, it's cost recovery driven. You know, I'm really keen to continue to work with people who are looking for work within roles that are aligned. And I could be compatible with with Vegan values because that's something that I struggled with for well over 15 years, you know, to have to do work that you're uncomfortable with. Inner and craving the ability to just work with people that you love, doing work that you feel right about and and just looking forward to each day. So we've got information available for job seekers. And I'm also actively working with job boards on a sort of cost recovery basis to help them promote and grow their services so that people who are looking for work that's aligned with big and values can find it. And likewise, people who are trying to recruit can find the knowledge and team members cost effectively without the sort of random lucky dip of the big search. [00:18:07] The big search engines in the job market, I think, is we start to become more aligned. [00:18:13] It is true. I you know, I think that when people endeavor to talk about veganism, they they define it in terms of one area or the caveat in which they were baptized. [00:18:24] So it's health or ethical or sustainability, environmental ism, things of that nature, morality. All of those. But what they quickly discover is that it's, you know, as the reason why the podcast is labeled Vegan life, you know, is because it's it becomes this environment. And I think this is such a clever way of looking at it. You're the first person I've spoken to the talks about these kinds of, you know, clauses that one wants to ascribe to the work that they're endeavoring in, you know, and likewise, a Vegan company wanting people that were, you know, aligned with those values as well makes a ton of sense. And I think that it's an area that people haven't really considered. I'm curious with your clients and where you see yourself, do you function in your in so many different environments, you know, across the globe? Do you find yourself functioning better with clients that are based in one country or another? Or do you truly feel it's like a global effort because things like MCO and that are global efforts? Or do you think that you you serve a client better to this point in a different country? [00:19:27] It's absolutely a global effort. I like like your work. You know, we really do have a it's a it's not necessarily an integrated market or an integrated community, but there are common themes. And we can take lessons that we learn from one country and and test them and experiment them with an experiment with them and learn from them to see if that might help somebody in another market. That's an opportunity for people to support each other without feeling threatened about competition. But it's also yeah, it's also an opportunity to sort of, I guess, learn and grow and compete because we are competing with the dairy industry who are doing very unhelpful, you know, advertising campaigns where we're seeing a lot of pushback associated with success when it when a small business starts to reach a point, which is this is the area I'm really interested in when it's starting to reach a point that they're getting traction, you can get pushback and it can become very difficult to step it up to the next level. You'll see everything from the David Young and the team that are doing Omni Polk, which launched in in Hong Kong technically. But it's a global prospect and they're fairly and squarely, squarely targeting something as ubiquitous as spam. [00:21:09] Like who would have thought you'd find a Vegan spam? That's ridiculous. [00:21:14] Yeah, it's it's a it's a really strange. It's a really strange market. I have a language barrier in that, you know, there is a lot of opportunity at the moment. [00:21:28] In Germany, for example, Google Trends statistics are going off at the right in terms of the intensity of interest in veganism in Germany, not just for recipes, but in terms of the the lifestyle. [00:21:46] And I'd love to get involved, but I'm unfortunately not multilingual. I speak a little bit of German in that respect. So, yeah, we're limited by our abilities, but I do see it as a completely integrated global market. Absolutely. [00:22:08] And mentioning Germany, we had a guest on not too long ago, a couple of weeks back, who is. In Burma, and I was saying, you know, it's it again, you know, you think you have an understanding of where veganism is. You know, Germany to Ireland is a couple states away, in my terminology, fee. And it's a completely different scene. And, you know, and it's it's this incredibly mainstream, the amount of restaurants, you know, it's just the fashion designers who are completely married to the vegan lifestyle just burgeoning in Germany is it's enthralling. [00:22:39] I myself just found myself dying to get over there. And, of course, you know, can't right now. [00:22:44] Terrible. [00:22:46] Yeah, it is a little heartbreaking. [00:22:49] I'm curious with you and your team, and as you kind of start to expand and look to the future, I'm wondering where we can all kind of see or guess or hope that, you know, this this wave building will begin to just kind of envelop and become so much more of a not just a more profound but more diversified, you know, conversation as it looks into veganism and the planet and all of these things that kind of get wrapped into that. Where do you personally on a business trend, do you see? Because it's starting to spike. You know, people would argue, at least economically, United States economy, that the funding alone for Vegan products and research and things of that nature has just skyrocketed to end. And that shit is paralleled all over the world to certain degrees. Do you own a business scale? Do you see it continuing to go up? Do you see it flattening out? What are your some of your predictions for that? [00:23:47] Well, twofold. Firstly, I think one of the biggest signals that we've seen has been associated with Carpet 19. I I've I'll be honest, I was completely shocked that, you know, meat alternatives like fresh meat alternatives grew at two hundred and seventy nine percent year on year in March this year, at a time when you'd expect people to suddenly be very price sensitive, hunk like bunkered down fresh chicken sales were up, but they're running up fifty one percent, for example. So you can't say that it was it was equivalent to people panic buying, you know, in a in a normal scale of a response. You know, there was there's been a real, really profound shift in consumption behaviors. So that I think signals a change in terms of price sensitivity in the future. And a lot of people complain about veganism not being possible because it's too expensive. You know, it's inconvenient. All of those excuses are starting to dry up because the large volume of activity right across everything from food to fashion to education. You know, prices are coming down and it's becoming more accessible for people to learn and and also to take on Vegan lifestyle choices. So with that, I do see some risks associated with profit margins reducing as as price competition starts to drive prices down. We are going to need to embrace people like me who are lazy. [00:25:45] Junk food pagan's. They've just want a really great meal. You know, after you finished the working day and you really can't be bothered making, you know, something incredible is made me. I want to go to bed. So, you know, it's it's. [00:26:09] A risk where profit margins could become a little bit tighter. It could become a little bit more competitive. But if you're in the supply space. So if you're the manufacturer of pineapple leather or you're the manufacturer of these inputs, you've got a bigger opportunity because they there are going to be more companies, manufacturing products that are big and friendly. There are going to be more consumers, obviously looking towards your types of products. So it really depends where you are, if you will. Customer facing. You're going to need to really be on the front foot to compete and to maintain your profit margins. That's why we stay pretty lean. We we expand and morph depending on the work coming in. Secondly, really want to move back into the supply chain so that you've got a good, steady stream of opportunity where it doesn't matter what type of bags in fashion next month you're providing the raw materials or some other value that will will carry through trends and changes over time. And internationally. So I think that's going to be that's going to be the most important aspect of the next probably two years. But you're right. Mean, you mentioned, was about interest and investment in this. You've seen the stock market changes. Obviously, everyone knows about the beyond meet listing. And there are other IPOs that have been brave enough to move forward during this period. But there really is an appetite for. Investing not only in the ETF and other financial products that align with the sector. I think that's lagging. So if people are working in finance or they're looking to raise funding, that could be an opportunity in the next two years as well. [00:28:21] Absolutely. And I know that there are funds in the United States that at least two that I know of and there's probably more but directly devoted, you know, to pennies. And I think we'll see a burgeoning with those funds as well, because there is obviously there is a market for it. You know, in scrap there's going to be money. If there's a market for it, there's going to be an investment. So and that will be exciting. I think that those will kind of start to define and hopefully change even that industry. We could use a serious tightening up and judging of the investment industry in general as this is a woman, I think we're highly underrepresented, you know, in a lot of those industries and a lot of things like veganism and even environmentalism, things haven't been really represented in areas like funds that they should be. [00:29:08] And I think it's just starting to take hold. So hopefully there's change. I'm wondering, it's when you speak about your clients and what you're doing and looking at the markets and you kind of allude to a lot of this education and it struck me looking at Dacoit, that a great deal of what you do as you encounter a new client. It sounds like there's a great deal of translation and education in regards to substituting out products and talking about buzz words and key terms. Is there any area? Do you have like a five pillar roadmap or a like a basic outline that you kind of use when you encounter new clients, where you educate them as to how to engage in a substitution of, you know, Vegan products or how to kind of make that transition? Or do you just use every client individually as they come and kind of do the narrative with them? [00:30:03] It's definitely a case of every client as they come. [00:30:06] But if you're looking in the food space, there is a traditional model called menu engineering, which is used both in the restaurant sector and also in food manufacturing, where you have a quadrant in terms of your your star products, your workhorses, your puzzles and your dogs. So there's a general model where you'll have and I love dogs. I don't know why they've called the terrible products dogs, but I love dogs. You'll have a workhorse which doesn't have a high profitability, but it has a really solid performance of pretty good sales. You'll have your stars, which are menu items or other products you offer that are really profitable and they're really popular as well. So you want to leave them to it. You can have puzzle's, which is sort of quite profitable, but not particularly popular. [00:31:16] And you might be able to judge or do something with those. But then you have in any set, they'll be part of the data that falls into. It's not really very profitable and you don't sell a lot of it. So those are the ones where we'll we'll talk the businesses and say. [00:31:36] That's pretty low risk if you're going just rather than take on the additional expense, risk and investment by adding Vegan products to your your offering. Why don't you just swap out a dog? It's a pretty low risk strategy. And it's also something that you can do in a systematic way to look at the what's a star and see whether or not something like that in a in a Vegan ised version could be brought in to give you another star and get rid of a dog. So that's kind of the general framework that we find applies pretty well to a lot of cases. But it honestly, it really does come down to the business itself and the competition that they're facing. So if you're looking at an opportunity, you're going to take one approach. But if you're looking to defend your business, you're definitely going to take another. [00:32:39] Do you ever bring in studies done? And if so, do you use global studies? [00:32:44] I mean, there's got to be data about, you know, using the restaurant model of, you know, people who are offering Vegan options and how successful those are as kind of this persuasion technique, or do you just kind of use it for whatever they are? Because food and particularly restaurant owners that I know of here, there is an emotional attachment that's to the, you know, millions level with them. And I think even Gordon Ramsay, people that go into, you know, on these public scales and kind of talk to people, you have these menus that don't make any sense. And they're there because it was what their mother made them when they were six, you know, and that's how on a more microscopic level, how we all, I think, come into this world knowing food. And the reanalysis of that is part of, I think, the Vegan journey. But do you personally use substitutions or studies done? And if so, are there a lot of studies done? How do you kind of help with the persuasion technique of swapping out a dog? Because dogs really shouldn't be on the menu. They're clearly there is some kind of an irreconcilable difference that, you know, the owner is having. What techniques do you use? [00:33:52] Essentially, your best friend is daughter in relation to reviews, for example. So, yes, we do find that there are there are a few surveys around, like there was a survey last year that looked at the issue of the impact of using the word Vegan versus plant based in food based products. And we know that, you know, statistically, you're you're going to have the better potential for the market to be receptive if you're using plant based. [00:34:30] But then are potentially you really still need to include Michigan in there somewhere? Because there's going to be people like you and me that go, really? Is it actually Vegan or you just saying plant based? And you know what's in there? [00:34:43] So the survey, I think you're right, there's there's a few studies. And by the time something gets into an academic paper or it makes it into a report published by a consultancy like those I used to work for. It's usually about a year, maybe a year and a half out of date anyway. Yeah, we prefer to actually look at the most recent activity that the business has experienced. Have a look at public reviews that are legitimate, but it reviews an activity of competitors and the business in the public domain and really look at search trends within the location itself. You know, using Google search data and those sorts of things to see what are people really interested in. Like, I don't know why, but for some reason, during Kofod 19, statistically, people across the world started getting really excited about Vegan banana bread. [00:35:44] I don't know what I'm missing. Maybe I need to learn the recipe, but it seems to be life changing if you're stuck at home. So, you know, if you're if you're if you have a cafe and people are starting to to be free to come in and engage with you again after social isolation, some of those comfort foods could be something that's quite attractive. If it has been very popular in the recipe search activity in your community. People like me might have searched for the recipe, tried to make Vegan banana banana bread and failed dismally. But we've still got a bit of a hankering for that sort of comfort food. [00:36:25] So if it comes down to the type of business that somebody is doing. You know, there's a big difference between people looking at investment products or fashion compared with food. But, you know, it really comes down to understanding. The how to define the market itself and then having a look at some sort of indicators of not only interest, but whether or not people are going to put their money where their mouth is, because we want. We want people to have a good a good experience. If you take. Somebody that has an emotional attachment to the menu with a business and they like reluctantly being dragged into this hole. All right. A bit a provide some sort of Vegan option. You want them to go wowsers like Greg's sausage rolls. [00:37:19] Greg Zaken, sausage rolls. You can imagine the skepticism initially and then it pretty much saved their save their cash flow at a critical time. And then all of a sudden. Oh, oh, yes. You know, we're gonna add this. We're gonna do this. And it adds momentum. And that makes me it just makes me feel great. Gennari that. If somebody is going to get a really good outcome from accommodating and embracing sort of Vegan requirements and really looking at those sort of supply chain opportunities, I really want them to be successful because I want to keep doing it. [00:38:03] I want to do it more and preferably shift all the way across it. [00:38:08] We have to take baby steps sometime. [00:38:10] Absolutely. And I think that it's, you know, the best form of persuasion is example and success, as you were mentioning prior to that, states, you know, a lot of fast food chains. [00:38:21] The majority of them have started offering a Vegan alternative, even ones like Kentucky Fried Chicken, that their entitlement was based on chicken. And they have this meat alternative now and it's economical for them. That's the most hysterical part. You know, I used to tell people for years who were just adamant about, you know, they just loved their burger or their sandwiches. You know, those are like 40 percent. So I already like them. They mix, they're like movie and they look it up and it's this daunting shock and awe. And I was like, you're paff Vegan already. Don't worry about it. Be there. But I do think that that helps persuade smaller models and things of that nature. And, you know, it's a win win. [00:38:59] I tried to explain to people, particularly in my humble way of educating, which is a far less refined than yourself, but it's hardly your podcasts are fantastic. [00:39:11] Oh, you're so kind. It's, I think saving the environment, saving money, saving your health. There's not one angle that being Vegan does not help, you know. And, um. And I think when you when that's introduced, it's it's kind of this. Why haven't we all been doing this? I was talking to a good friend and a colleague, a mentor of mine. And she said, you know, one day in the very near future, we're going to be turning to our grandchildren who looked at us and said, did you really eat meat ever? Like, when was that? OK, like, how was how were you sustaining that mental framework? And I thought, I guess it just doesn't make any sense when you play all of the mathematics out, the economy, the health, all of it is it answers to the one human condition that will outweigh that will start wars that will make us irrationally fall in love. And it's our own emotional attachment that we've put onto food. It's you know, it's a mother's kiss. It's all of these things that it's not just the burger, you know. And so. And realizing that, I think is the first step of unpacking it. And you you endeavoring to do that with clients is is definitely something that would get me out of bed in the morning. We are coming towards the end and we always honor our audience who reaches out to us. Penelope, we've had a bunch of people kind of want us to speak with these business advisor roles in regards to, you know, Vegan. We've had a lot of people write in with their own Vegan based endeavors. And so I'm going to just pradel off some of the questions and let you kind of give us your expertize on those in our Rapid Fire segment. [00:40:46] So the first day, I'll just brace myself. [00:40:51] Give it a whole bunch of. It's just more questions. I don't know. I love it. Let's do it. I want our audience to understand that we are hearing them because I think I've been so rewarded by having this interaction that I didn't know what we would have with podcasts. And so I love it. And I want people to know that I'm hearing them. And. And I definitely look at all the questions that come in. And I want to make sure that they get proffered to the right expert yourself today. We've had a lot of people writing about buzzwords and you just spoke about SVO and things like that. But people, they feel like they're reading this tightrope. We've talked about plant based versus Vegan. And and I didn't have you clarify those because I know that your expertize does that. And, you know, and like you said, plant based is not in for Vegan. It's this friendly term. But people are now using it that have non Vegan items. You know, it's supposed to infer health. As I understand it, it's the new way of saying, like fortified with vitamins. You know, it's the advertising industry has come in. And because of that, you can't really depend on it. However, it still has a lot of cachet with, you know, SVO and things of that nature. But we've had people write in and ask to ask you and your expertize about when you're navigating some of those terms. Do you have like the top five that you stay away from or a lot of people talked about? You know, I don't want to use Vegan, but I do. And, you know, they're talking about massaging it in and sandwiching it in with other terms. Do you have advice to people who are kind of looking for buzz words? I suppose that to stay away from or to navigate around. [00:42:26] Well, depends on on what the products are. So if you're dealing with makeup, for example, Vegan and cruelty free are real positives. You know, like get it up there in lights. [00:42:43] You know, the market responds really well, obviously. [00:42:48] If you're dealing with products like shoes and fashion plant based doesn't quite work because of exactly the points you made. I think you can really hit the nail on it. People do resident with plant based not only as a beacon indicator, but also in terms of nutritional health. So they get a little bit confused. And it not as powerful when you use it with with fashion and those sorts of accessories, those sorts of products. So in that sense, the phrase Vegan friendly does tend to it seems to work. And I think when you move into the food space in terms of this, there's a difference here. If you're looking at visual branding, the buzzwords you use in your your menus and your visual presence in terms of your your website content and your other collateral, you definitely want plant based in there. [00:43:58] Your food based business. But interestingly, when you actually crunch the numbers in terms of search activity, plant based is microscopic. So people are looking for plant based this. They'll just use the word Vegan. Know if you're. Yeah. In terms of your content ACOR and your inbound marketing type activity, you've really got to keep Vegan in the picture. So other aspects in terms of cruelty free, cruelty free can can pivot into a couple of different markets in terms of plant based. But it confuses people because they start thinking of humane meat. [00:44:49] Right. We all know is not cruelty free at all, ever. So it's it's ridiculous. But people start to get confused. So, you know, plant based in the forefront. [00:45:02] But Vegan as the the the sort of working the working keywords in the background is something you can use. And if you use it together, it's also quite powerful. [00:45:15] Yeah, we had an end to that. [00:45:17] And we also had like another flurry of questions around people worried about redundancy with advertising and marketing, because this is an area I think maybe vegans themselves are too educated on to understand. But I'll have you answer it because I definitely don't want to. And it's people talking about if they're using the word Vegan, do they need to say environmentally friendly? Because being Vegan as as we understand, you know, and using Vegan alternatives, these were largely people and they involved in the evolve erupting food scene here. Are people dealing with online a lot of people. Right. And who are these Vegan foods that they were selling online and bakeries and things like that? And they talked about ask. They want to know how much is too redundant. So saying, you know, cruelty free, Vegan environmentally friendly, like all of these different words. Would you advise that they use all of them or pull back because some infer the meaning of the others? [00:46:16] Oh, this one that differs depending on the country. And you touched on this earlier, you know that there are real differences in nuances between different cultures. The American markets very well educated. And so that could be potential for redundancy. But then they can also be the potential for backlash because environmentally friendly is is a term that you might want to use because of the comparable benefits of of veganism and Vegan supply chains for climate change and for other environmental factors. But if you're using insecticides and you're not an organic based product, then you can actually get backlash because it's all you say that you're environmentally friendly or eco friendly. But you know, the way that your product is being developed, you know, doesn't have this this this this little law issue here. That's that's. Yeah. Then something that's quite significant. So we have to respect that. People's interpretation of people's values differ. So there's a lot more complexity in the American market. I think in that space. And it really depends on what type of business, Syrian and landline you don't want to step on. If you're in the European market and Asia Pacific, eco friendly and environmentally friendly isn't redundant. There's definitely some different varieties in terms of people's choices, in terms of why they're choosing Vegan. We also have a spiritual dimension. In places like Israel and and other countries where we aren't adding Vegan enough to be able to have to help people who have Vegan diets associated with certain types of Catholicism and other religions. [00:48:22] You know, it's it's a spiritual practice as well. [00:48:25] So it is something that we should put front and center to help people. Even kosher, for example, people from the Middle East will try to go towards Vegan products in some cases when they travel to the West because they know they can avoid breaking their religious religious principles. [00:48:49] Just if I just know that it's Vegan, I've got no worries about, you know, issues associated with the way that the meat is butchered. Right. [00:48:57] So there's a really complex array of drivers, motivators and reactions that people have to these sorts of words across the world. But generally, if you try it first listen and then you respond more. Look, as I said before, this is where you're looking at people's reactions, reviews and discussions around your competitor's products and activities of your own. The case is really just to listen like you're doing to your your listeners at the moment. You're asking you're responding to their questions and bringing it into the conversation to see if you can unpack it and use that as you develop your content. Moving forward, it's a really good model. I think as an example of this. [00:49:46] Yeah, I agree. And I always overlook that, like Google Analytics. I mean, I think that really paying attention to, you know, what your trends are doing as you use different words. There are great testers, you know, particularly in times when focus groups don't really happen right now. And that definitely person. But, you know, like using those kinds of measurable data have been game changers for most American companies that I talk to, you know, models, people like Netflix who started off just mailing DVD to people. They have this room built in-house for focus groups in their headquarters because of the importance of how it developed that company, you know, and wanted to listen to their users. And so I think that's a key and a key concept that gets overlooked with a lot of business owners is really paying attention to your audience. I agree with you. [00:50:37] I didn't know that. That's a great example. I'm going to steal that Netflix example and have a look into it. Thank you. I have an up close and personal relationship with somebody who kind of was with Netflix before they became that, you know, the magnet that they are. And so it was great to watch that company kind of come into their own and really reach adulthood. I'm wondering. Not me. I'm sorry. We've had a lot of people write in regarding your personal elevator, elevator pitch or pitch dark or however that translates to your neck of the woods. [00:51:10] But when it comes to veganism, you know, this very kind of siccing, do you find yourself? Ever returning to these like five or six things that, you know, kind of tend to want to relate very, very quickly, either with clients or anyone else that you feel like really encompasses the importance of Vegan or anything like that. So a lot of people are just like, I want to know what someone who is advising people towards Vegan business. They're like quick and fast. You know, this these core tenants that you have that you kind of quickly try to communicate, you have anything like that in your lexicon. [00:51:47] Yeah, well, twofold to personally, a phrase I'll often uses, you know, if I can live well and have a really happy life while not hurting other people. Why would I. Know while not hurting others? And in terms of the business space, it's again, it's it's it's kind of related to that. It's it's like if you can if you can make great money in a way that's compassionate, then why wouldn't you? Yeah, and that's basically it. So I accidently turned a neighbor, Vegan. [00:52:27] I didn't realize until a couple of years later she said, do you seem to just be so happy about the new substitutes that you found? And you should pace things that I brought home in. And it seemed to be so. I always seem to be so relaxed and and at pace that she started looking into it herself. After I'd moved. Actually, and she got in contact with me and she'd been Vegan for about a year at that stage. And she was really happy. [00:53:03] Well done. That's a notch on your belt. [00:53:06] It made my day. It made my week. Absolutely. [00:53:10] Absolutely. Lead by example. I love. That's what I'm always telling my children. That's wonderful. Penelope, we're out of time. And I'm kind of bummed because it was a fascinating walk. And I know that our audience is really going to appreciate everything that you've shared with us today. All of your advice and expertize. I really do appreciate you giving me the time. [00:53:30] Thank you so much. It's been an absolute honor. Joining you on your podcast. Thank you very much. [00:53:35] And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Penelope Fry. She's an international consultant and Vegan market expert. You can find out more about her consultancy as well as her company on their Web site, Chicoy dot com. That is JHC. Oh, I dot com. And thank you for giving us your time today. I appreciate you all so much. [00:53:55] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat clean and responsibly and always better yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am talking with Sailesh Rao. Dr. Sailesh Rao is a Systems Engineer who worked on the Internet Infrastructure, Human, Earth and Animal Liberation (HEAL) activist, husband, dad and since 2010, a star-struck grandfather. He has promised his granddaughter, Kimaya, that the world will be largely Vegan before she turns 16 in 2026, so that people will stop eating her relatives, the animals. He has faith that humanity will transform to keep his pinky promise to Kimaya, not just for ethical reasons, but also out of sheer ecological necessity.  Key points addressed were  Dr. Rao’s extensive research regarding climate change and climate healing as they relate to animal agriculture and the future vegan worldWe also discussed Dr. Rao’s nonprofit called climate Healers and its key initiative called Vegan world 2026 in which a vegan world can be brought to light by engaging in a concept of a new Game or way of living and thinking called: Aquarius. Dr. Rao explains how Aquarius will endeavor to allow everyone to stay ecologically responsible and aware using the app climate healers is developingWe wrap up the chat with Dr. Rao explaining some core aspects of The White paper he authored in response to vegans’ desire for a document with the scientific data supporting the aspects that animal agriculture has in regards to climate change and the subsequent deterioration of the earth.This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

Today I am chatting with Tamsin Napier-Munn. Tamsin is an enthusiastic, skilled and energetic speaker and facilitator, whose business acumen and engaging style ensures that sessions are not only highly relevant but have a lasting positive impact.   Tamsin’s eternal optimism for people and opportunities have helped drive her determination to successfully navigate her way through –like many people -a far from straight forward upbringing and career path.     Having had a highly successful sales career in B2B fashion, publishing and IT Consulting, Tamsin transitioned into training sales teams and management, and led a regional Dale Carnegie Training business.  As host of The Women in Business Awards and Campaign for the last 5 years for The Business Magazine, Tamsin is passionate about tapping in to the power in us, pushing through doubts and taking charge of our careers and our lives.  As a result of her experiences and determination to learn to speak up and step up, Tamsin has been inspired to reach out to those of us who haven’t yet found our voices to find the courage and skills to get seen and get heard.   Key points addressed were   Tamsin varied professional career as well as her some of her personal struggles that led her to design and develop Raw Talks academy, a program developed to inspire, impact, and enable her clients to create real impact on their careers and lives   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.   TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I sat down with speaker facilitator and host of Women in Business Awards, as well as the founder and CEO of Raw Talks Academy, Tamsin Napier-Munn, among key points addressed where Tamsin's varied professional career, as well as some of her personal struggles that led to her to design and develop Raw Talks Academy, a program developed to inspire impact and enable her clients to create real impact on their careers and lives. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Tamsin Napier-Munn.   [00:00:35] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:33] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Tamsin Napier-Munn. Tamsin is a speaker, a facilitator and host of Women in Business Awards. She is also the founder and CEO of Rock Talks Academy. You can find out more about these issues and done some of the stuff we impact today at Raw Talks Academy dot com. Welcome, Tamsin.   [00:01:56] All right. Great to see you. I'm very excited. Thank you for having me.   [00:01:59] Absolutely. I'm excited to klotho everything regarding your business endeavors today. And for those of you that are new to this podcast. I'll give you a brief roadmap of where our line of inquiry will be headed towards in our 30 to 45 minutes today. And I will also read a bio on Tamsin before I start peppering her with questions. So the roadmap for today's podcast will first look at Tamsin's academic and professional background in history, leading her to the Rock Talks Academy and her work within that, as well as hosting of the Women in Business Awards. Some of those efforts and we will look towards unpacking those efforts in general, the logistics of when each was founded, the work that each is doing, all of that. And then we will turn our efforts towards goals that Tamsin has for all of those projects, namely the Raw Talks Academy over the next one to three years and will wrap everything up with the advice that she has for those of you who are looking to get involved or perhaps emulate some of her success. So as promised, prior to getting into my line of inquiry, a quick bio, Tamsin is an enthusiastic, skilled and energetic speaker and facilitator whose business acumen and engaging style ensures that sessions are not only highly relevant but have a lasting positive impact. Tamsin's eternal optimism for people and opportunities have helped drive her determination to successfully navigate her way through. Like many people, far from sight forward upbringing and career path, having a highly having had a highly successful sales and career in B2B fashion publishing and I.T. temps and transitioned into training sales teams in management and led original Dale Carnegie training business as host of the Women in Business Awards and campaign for the last five years for the Business magazine. Tamsin is passionate about tapping into the power in us, pushing through doubts and taking charge of our careers and our lives as a result of her experience and determination to learn to speak up and step it step up. Tamsin has been inspired to reach out to those of us who haven't yet found her voice or voices to find the courage and skills to get seen and get heard. In 2019, Roth Talks Academy was launched pioneering programs for people of influence. Tamsin has designed strategies, steps and processes as a part of a system to empower you to develop real confidence and real influence and have real impact on your career in business. By tapping into your personal power, you will have a life with greater passion, purpose and will truly unlock your potential and make what you say matter. Because what you say matters is a quote from Tamsin Napier-Munn. Man. So Tamsin. I do. I do want to drop straight in to everything that you're doing. However, prior to that, I'm hoping that you can kind of unpack for us your history, your academic background and early professional life that led you to what you're doing now with a long story.   [00:04:54] I'm sure it was a lovely, lovely, long story to tell. So, you know, I really didn't have much of an academic background, so we can swiftly go past that one. But I you know, I wasn't you know, it didn't engage in school. I was autistic. I think I had ADHD then. But I think people really understood it. So I had quite a dysfunctional and very abusive childhood. So my focus was very much on self preservation. And part of that was I wasn't really allowed to speak. So I was very much metaphorically gagged as a child. So I kind of lifted my head for a lot of time. So I went into Six-fold college and before I went to art college, which I dropped out of, I have to say I had other retsina of young girls, you know, really struggled with your own identity and all the rest of it. So it took me years of years to start to, I guess, undo a lot of the self-esteem issues. And that was probably the reason why I kind of dropped out of college. I went to college. I wanted to be a fashion designer. And so that was the path to go. So unfortunately, I didn't finish it. I don't think my parents were too impressed. Hey, that's that's my academic background.   [00:06:20] Yeah, well, listen, that's interesting because I frequently find in people that I speak to, particularly women or female identified or non binary individual, that doesn't necessarily denote a very prolific. And like a widely cast net as far as the professional life is concerned, you know, inquiry during that time period happens at any stage, regardless of the institution one finds themselves in. So how did you start your professional life?   [00:06:47] Well, interesting. You know, I think it teaches you. I mean, when you go through stuff, it teaches you resilience, determination. And I know although I fell out of college. I still wanted to be a fashion designer, I kind of went up it's sort of one of those romantic stories or not of running up to London and.   [00:07:10] Finding my fame and fortune, but unfortunately found it probably in the wrong places and found myself with the wrong with the wrong people. Just one morning, early morning when I was coming back from one of those all nighters, I was passing the rag trade in London and I happened to peer into the window of this fashion house. And this chap came out and we got chatting and offered me a job. At that point, it was simply a go for job. I was I was hanging clothes and go for a go for that to go for this and any thirty five pounds a week. It was. Wow. Yeah. Not a lot, but I was willing to learn. And I then went to work for Philip Green, the infamous Philip Green one stop shop. And that was an experience I think baptism by fire with that gentleman. And he you know, I'm no good to jumping into a defining moments in our lives. But, you know, that kick started my career in sales because although I wanted to be a fashion designer, I ended up talking to clients, selling clothes from the racks and to the wholesalers to top shop. I felt I had a knack of of influencing and how to understand people relate and connect. So I remember Philip Green wants to turn round to me and said, Tamsin, if you had brains that you'd be dangerous. I remember thinking, I don't think that was a compliment. But it gave me a real drive to start to say, okay, that I'll show you moments. And I from that moment, all my career started to kind of go forward, but I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to make money. The reason being is I want to be financially independent. I think a lot of women that I have met who perhaps happen to have a secure background have been driven to feel that financial security and independence that they haven't had. So that was my drive. More than anything else. So I went into sales more and more in the fashion industry in the 80s. So that was the boom time. The fashion business went into footwear business industry. So you can either very what they call a squiggly career. I mean, I did have no plan, no idea what I was doing. And so I went into the fashion footwear business with my cousin. And I became sales manager at the age of 21. And I was driving right round the country selling off samples. I mean, you talk about hard work and just to the grindstone. I mean, I, I was really working hard. I made some good money. Then I flipped into the publishing industry. I mean, you can get more books. Well, apart from, you know, photographs and fashion of fashion, I went into publishing. I was head hunted, so to speak, for you to start a contract publishing arm. And I ended up selling advertising space. The Haab no sales environment with guys. About 90 percent of them were guys sitting in a room smoking. In those days. I'm off to the pub at lunchtime and I'd go off with the media. I think, you know, then just a kind of short circuit. A lot of this. I bumped around in space, rode the crest of the wave of each wave of whether it was fashion, because then in the 80s we had the we had the crash. Now we had a publishing was on the up. And there was all sorts of wonderful things. I went to sporting events. Hospitality was just fun. And then I went into I.T.. So, you know, when the dot com boom started and I actually when doffs which was around, I was I was one of the first people in the software training industry working for a franchise in London from Atlanta, Georgia.   [00:11:18] So I headed that up for the sales team in London. And then the U.K. found I was, you know, again, honing my skills as a salesperson. I ended up training some of the people in sales around me. And again, it was the dot com boom time. Patricia. It was, you know, the time when you couldn't not make money. I had no idea about technology. I still don't. If I'm honest. And but I just knew how to connect with people. So that was that was that. So where are we? So the dot com boom and bust and then I previously taken a Dale Carnegie course when I was 21. And it had just just changed my whole view on me as well. So this is where I started believing in myself. Somebody else believed in me more than I did. And I know what is the deal.   [00:12:23] Dale Carnegie course forever.   [00:12:25] Dale Carnegie, of course, is Merican. He wrote the book How to Win Friends and Influence People back in 1936. I think it was and it's still be one of the most prolific early read books. And so Ballard now do. And what it did is it gave me tools and the confidence because it's all around public speaking. And that's, you know, when you talk about where did my when rule talks perhaps start? It started way back. This is the perfect storm. We kind of came to fruition because of a number of events coming together.   [00:13:02] But it started in my ability to start to speak up to find my voice, which is what I didn't have for many years since I was a child. To realize that actually I could influence and I could speak and I could have the courage to put myself out there. And so it boosted my confidence. So at the same time of when I've joined the technology company, the trading company, my my career just flew. I was having a lot of fun. My confidence was there. But I think, you know. When things fell to on rocky foundations. You know, the cracks in the mortar of the building can start to show you. If you don't dig those root, there's foundations out to rebuild.   [00:14:00] And that's that's simply what happens after a while. I was working really hard just to make money. I then decided I wanted to go into the training industry full time. So I went to work for Dale Carnegie. I opened the office in Windsor in the UK, and I then started to run seminars, which is then when I really found that I loved connecting with people and speaking up and speaking from the halls. And coaching people. And then you want me to go see Joy? Yeah, this is good.   [00:14:37] I mean, it does it does lead way into kind of what you did and how you were doing. How long did you carry that position?   [00:14:45] For a few years, this bit sort of vague about a few years, but I have been connected. Patricia with Dale Carnegie since I say 1988. So you could probably guess my age now.   [00:14:58] 1988 to still I'm partnering with them with Robert talks as well. Because what they did is was fundamentally changed. Was the change was permanent. So a number of the things that I'm working with now. Best practice is based on that. Yeah.   [00:15:15] So by unpacking of that, I want to skip over to because I kind of want to end with Unpacking Rocks Talks Academy, but I really want to get into your hosting of the Women in Business Awards. So really quickly for everyone listening. What is it. And how long you served as the host and how and why were you selected to host those awards?   [00:15:36] Okay, I'll start with a selection how that came about, because I just very quickly. I had my son. Things were going well. I was coaching one to one self-employed. And I have been since then. And then I got married. I did everything round also about face. My mother would call it, you know, I did things the wrong way around. Got married off I. Yeah. And then not long. You know, it was any of a short lived marriage. Got divorced. That was very painful. When I said the cracks started to show, that's when they started to show I self my anxiety.   [00:16:12] I was going through menopause and I pretty soon realized I was having a nervous breakdown, which I did, which was, you know, looking at a drawer full of pills that I didn't want to take. What was it? Another defining moment? I had to make a decision to do something. So having met the owner of the business magazines some years before. I got out one day, literally out of my chair, feeling absolutely paralyzed, picked up my phone, and I phoned him because I had a son who I had to look after. No one was paying for him but me and my finances were going backwards. And I was stuck and really wasn't sure what I was going to do about it. So something just propelled me into action. I just got up. I phoned David Murray and I said that to David. I think I've got some ideas for you, how you could expand your business ideas with your awards and your events because of my facilitation. And could I have some time with you to show you what I think that we can do together?   [00:17:28] And.   [00:17:31] He agreed and. He gave me an opportunity that not there wasn't an opportunity, that it wasn't a joke. I just created something. I created a need. And so that's one of the things that I think women, you know, we as women absolutely need to be doing. Moral is creating a need seeking. Finding and filling it rather than waiting until we're asked. Until we're ready. Until something comes up. So I. I sold myself and sold the idea. He then gave me three campaigns to run part time. So I was part time. He was playing me. I'm one of them was the Women in Business Awards now, which I have never, ever been interested in these women's groups, women's stuff. I think probably because I've never seen or felt that I've had any difficulty with in a man's world. Perhaps I used to, dare I say, my sexuality, my my you know, my charm. To my advantage. Rightly or wrongly, it worked for me and most of my clients, my customers were men. And so, you know, I this was alien to me and it was like ladies who lunch was not my thing. So I was kind of doing it because I liked the idea of of speaking, being in an audience and raising my profile. And I knew that the only way to raise my profile and start to get noticed.   [00:19:04] What I do is to step forward to grab this opportunity with both arms, which I did. So I started hosting the first one, which was then there was a second year and ever done it. And we had lots of sponsors. It was 2015 and was first time being on stage like that, you know, in front of two 300 people.   [00:19:34] And it was quite daunting. But I, I really broke a fear of standing in front of people. And that's a lot of conversation. Maybe some time, you know, about standing in front of an audience was one of the biggest fears that I ever had. Like a lot of people, I was humiliated as a child in front of my father, in front of groups of his friends. So I had this blog and I was determined to overcome it. So this was a real big one for me. So over the last five, five 1/2 years, I've been hosting and growing the campaign. So it's not just the awards, it's the whole writing, the newsletters, putting everything on the Web site, interviewing some really successful, amazing women. And I soon realized this is why it's come to this now, is I really realized how much women we as women tend to, I say, tend to not everybody hold ourselves back.   [00:20:35] Yeah. So that got me into the women and Business Awards and the hosting. So I started to build my profile, make amazing connections, interview lots of amazing women and start to kind of build a picture, not just from my own experiences of what it stands for, what we will talk stands for, which how I can come on to the reason for it. The drive for it.   [00:21:00] But, you know, I started realizing the DNA that could be captured with women who are successful to each of those.   [00:21:09] I think it's remarkable, too, that you came at it from this like, you know, you didn't feel incredibly blighted with your career, you know, based with the gender parity and disparity issues. Yeah. There's so many people talk about, I think, unique. And it's a brave platform to have to say I didn't really feel maybe I was using things to my advantage, but it worked for me. So I am curious now. Can we kind of I'd like you to unpack Raw Talks Academy. It was founded recently in 2019 with your love infancy endeavors are so fun, but it sounds like it was born out of like axiomatic principles that you were doing prior to that with the business magazine awards and things like that. So can you kind of like walk us through how it was developed? You also do it in partnership with and with the business magazine owner, or was this a separate thing where he's been very supportive of it and it's sort of run alongside?   [00:22:07] It is my own venture. And so, you know, I think what it comes at the core of it is about finding your voice. It is about courage. And it is about three things I did. I so I created a system, Latricia, that I identified as sort of I unpacked everything that I had done in my life. So this is, you know, wasn't an overnight success and still isn't. But it's it's something that I still look at. What have I achieved and how have I done it? How have I overcome things? And. To to then identify those processes and the mindset, the techniques that I use. And at the core of it is those two things, finding your voice and having the courage to act. I think that a lot of women, as I say, tend to we hold ourselves back, waiting to be ready, waiting until we're sure and waiting until we feel like it's waiting to be asked. Waiting until the all the lights turn green. We hesitate. We tend to think over and analyze underestimates our values. So there's so many statistics out there. And I started to read up about how women have held themselves back because they only go for something unless they're 80 percent ready or feel that they are ready. You know, someone a friend of mine said to me, a male friend, he said, you know what? Men have more of a subject button than women. You know, they have a kind of the more willing to kind of go for something. Yeah. Yeah. Rule talks is stands for real, authentic women. And what I can see in a lot of women, including myself, which is my journey as much as anybody's. Is to stop wearing masks, to start to rob and be fine when everyone says, how are you? You say, I'm fine. And we all know what that means. It's fucked up, insecure, neurotic and emotional. Or someone else has said is feelings inside not expressed. A lot of women have a voice, so they want to say something. They have ideas, but they hesitate waiting to think that I might be taken seriously. Overlooked for promotion, and this about time we stepped up, spoke up and identified these three areas, if you like. I believe everybody needs to master if they want to get ahead. But in particular, women know this. This is a game changer. I'm not one is to inspire the ability to inspire others. The ability to influence others. And the ability to impact change. So will the skills and the processes of the system are geared to support women in doing those three things?   [00:25:09] I got a lot of inspiration from at the core of this is I identified one thing that enabled me and I say enabled me. I empowered myself because this is one of the things that I know that I love. I come back to this, but. I accept the awards evening once, and this guy said to me. Young guy, he said, you know what, women have got to stop pointing the finger at everybody else, I'm saying they've got to change. You know, they they've got to and I. And I just looked at him knowing I was hosting a in business, he knew that, so hence the he brought it up. I looked at him and I said. Really? And you said women really got to be the change. They've got to be that that influence rather than waiting for other people to change. And I thought he's absolutely right. How? I have never it remind me of my career. I've never waited for somebody else to change. But I had to be that influence, that change in me. So I. I truly believe that they talk about empowering women. This is the this is the subtitle to everything. Women Empowerment and how companies are empowering women. And they don't. How can they? They can allow them to do to empower themselves. Only women can take charge to give themselves the authority to change. So my system is ultimately the ultimate self empowerment, personal power empowerment system because it's women taking charge for themselves and in a way not wasting time until they give them permission to. And that, to me, is how we can make change happen on a large scale. So the system, the academy is is about teaching women the skills, the courage, and ultimately to help them to find that voice and use it. So the core of this is this is a is a something I call it the power of three activation for me that was inspired. I have to say by Mel Robbins, her five second rule, however, comma. I realized that with a different process to this, and actually five seconds takes me three seconds to talk myself out of something. And if you can actually get out of your head into action and you can get out of your head and without overthinking in a way that is quick, that engages. Exactly. But you're locked in mental jail. For me, it was locked down for a lot of people as being mentally locked down. You know, I put myself in solitary confinement in my head for a long time. And what we have to do is to to break out of. Mental lockdown. And to get into action rather than carping, paralyzed by fear and anxiety. Yeah. And as I was so so the power of reactivation of formula. I teach the core of everything. So it is a formula, a three step process of becoming present and really being aware of your instincts. Being aware of the instincts to act. So whether you have an idea, then you have to put your hand up in the meeting. And you have that instinct to do that rather than what a lot of people do, is to kind of work for the break. Some say, should I put my hand up? Should I say something at the moment? Gone. Rather than not has to to follow your instincts and to count backwards three to one and physically move through the physical movements, changes your mindset as far as mental expounds is engaging your prefrontal cortex so that you can actually make those physical changes in that moment. This few seconds, an act, as you know, that's probably one of the drivers that most people will say from the testimonials you might see is somebody got rid of the excuses is to act on instinct, to honor your instincts with deliberate action so that if you like, the power of three, which is at the core of everything, and I think that is for me, the. The thing that I look back at, yeah, that's what's caused changes in my life. Yeah, I'm curious about.   [00:29:55] So I had the opportunity to read some pieces, some comments and testimonials from your previous clients. And it sounds like a continuous theme is that they all feel like you have offered them at, you know, a roadmap to self empowerment and also that you yourself lead by example that you're this very powerful speaker and things of that nature. And it caused me to kind of consider your client profile even further. And I'm curious to go noticed any trends even prior to officially launching, you know, Raud Talks Academy. Do you find that you have like a very niche or specific profile of individual that you work with? Or does it span all industry and genre? Like, how does that work for you? Have you.   [00:30:43] Good question. Yeah, that's a good question. Tricia B.. Profile of. My clients is women. I mean, that is the main profile of my clients. I say from I identify this, everyone suffers from the same things to a smaller or greater degree.   [00:31:12] And it's not just women who are all returning to work, not your career break, you lack confidence. It is potentially women who are starting out in their career as graduates. Women tend to still have those those fears and those doubts. I'm not sure where that's come from, whether that's a biological or that's your nature. You know, there's a lot to be said for looking into all of that. There's also aspiration. I'd say aspirational women are my my target audience. Anyone who is looking to influence, looking to find their voice, wanting to get ahead and is willing to commit to doing something and confronting situations. And part of this course in the program, the 12 week program that I'm now I'm now launching next month is a pilot when I piloted last year and very powerful program because it starts off with the first eye, which is inspiration. Now everybody wants to eat to inspire others around them. And I took my inspiration rather than motivation, because inspiration is the rocket fuel for this thing, for any endeavor. And if women want to to raise their profile, they want to be seen to be more influential. They first need to look at themselves and be inspirational. And so that's one of the things that women tend that I found tend to do, is they downplay their assets than strengths. So what I do is confront them with. Looking at what they've got going for them, you know, that's reminding them, rediscovering that that part of them, that they. They realize this is a strength. Take them through a five step process of self discovery and that when they come out of that and it's experiential, it's not theoretical process. So my coaching just to kind of the way it works and why it's so transformational is that I use best practice coaching in the sense of I use specific ways of disrupting and challenging their thinking. And then I do a little coaching in the Vegan.   [00:33:36] So from my Dale Carnegie days, it's all about stand and deliver. Well, maybe now as I sit and deliver an online book, stand and deliver, it is about building confidence through public speaking. So I coach them in the moment so they can actually feel the transformation and I challenge them to be better. Be bold. Be brave. And so take them out of their comfort zone is where the magic happens, I say, and you're right, it's it's it's something that I haven't I haven't by any means got to where I want to be. But also I'm also very conscious. This is my journey to I struggle and I'm very honest about it. I'm very transparent. Like you said, you are transparent, you know, very honest. This is about being authentic, but being vulnerable and being brave. To be doing that, the only way that you can inspire and connect with other people is by being those things. So that's what the program teaches. You know, this is our struggle, just as everybody else does still that and like you being very akin and, you know, human.   [00:34:49] Much like your clients, I'm wondering how is your process sounds? Very much so. Like it's about self identity awareness. And then these lily pad action item approaches as to how to change through the eyes. They're inspiring and and impacting and all of those things. But I'm wondering to that. And it sounds like, you know, it's it's kind of micro goal making to kind of get your behavior to change. And with you yourself, as you likened yourself to your clients just now. Do you find yourself transforming as the time goes on that you continue to kind of coach people in this? Do you find your theory's kind of retaining or accelerating in their clarity? And if so, how is that shaping your future goals with what you're going to do with the academy?   [00:35:39] So what I think you are what you say, because it was a little bit. I got a noise in the background. Is that because this is evolving? Is that is that really. Yeah.   [00:35:53] Setting is so I'm young. If the if if you have evolved as an adviser to your clients and if so, has that changed the future of where you're headed.   [00:36:04] I think, you know, well, I'm very excited about the fact that I don't have to be the person standing up that I am, Patricia. This is probably you know, you've hit the nail on the head. I see. And I talk about other women. They say they will go to talks. They'll listen to some very well known. Whether it's Michelle Obama, whether it's for Winfrey, or they'll have some iconic equal over the U.K. businesswoman because listen to get inspired. But inspiration tends to disappear, tends to sort of weaken as they leave the auditorium or they leave. That's because what they're saying to themselves is I could never be like that. So what I want from this academy is about storytelling, that hearing other women's stories in a way that is about then sharing it with passion and practice to inspire other women, saying I'm not nothing special. This is my story. And but this is where I've come from. So. For me, it's about the ordinary, I say ordinary, exceptionally ordinary woman.   [00:37:20] Who has an extraordinary capacity to share the.   [00:37:29] The golden nuggets of wisdom that are being hidden because they haven't had the courage of confidence to speak up. So this is about. So they learn to tell students about storytelling. So every session that they work through is they tell a story. They learn how to frame it and learn how to deliberate with passion and purpose. And finding their purpose as part of this. Is when you've got that, you've got inspiration. You become unstoppable. So that's the final icing on the cake. The Road Teams Academy will be something I'm launching next year. Hopefully it'll be something that if we can all go back on stage. Quite an amazing national program. And it's about sharing, watching people's journey from. From being sort of perhaps less confident person to being an inspirational speaker and seeing that person transformed because that's what inspires people, not maybe the Michelle Mon's or the current Bradys we have over here. Yeah. Been there. Done it. It's seeing someone actually grow. So I hope that people will see me evolve. You know, because, yeah, that's a pressure on myself to do that. I have to. I got to do what I'm asking other people to do. Absolute lockdown. That's exactly what happens, because I'm natural's for my notable line, libeled line. I'm totally out of my comfort zone. This is not where I want to be. Yeah. So there's another test.   [00:39:19] Absolutely. And I think a lot of people who can and are able to and fortunate enough to receive it that way and do it are growing. You know, and I think that's one of the offshoots that I very timidly try and proffer up, you know, as as nothing good ever came from pandemic. But something good frequently comes from the human struggle. You know, and and so within that, I think that we can kind of openly talk about those things. And it sounds like you've endeavored with that as well. Well, Tamsin, we're running out of time and we're at my favorite parts. For everyone who listens to my podcast regularly knows that I am unabashedly honest about the idea that this final question of mine, I don't change. And. And I've asked it of a million people. So I will ask you now today. I'm curious if you had a young woman or female identified or non binary individual approached you in a park or a garden tomorrow at a safe social distance and say, Oh, Tamsin, I'm so glad I found you. So check it out. I've had this career that has been this beautifully winding road throughout all of these different industries. I started off, you know, really wanting to be in fashion and was to some degree. And then I climbed through all of these different endeavors. I learned through marketing, I was very turned on to this course that I took and then worked for. I did it all of these different things. And now I'm getting ready to kind of launch my own enterprise and utilize all of the skills and the pieces of knowledge and and expertize and put it all together with the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now.   [00:40:54] OK. Since when did you say top three? Yes. OK. So I would I would absolutely tell her to find someone who is going to not take any excuses but is willing to push her because even eagles need to push mount. The second the second thing is to.   [00:41:21] To speak up.   [00:41:24] To absolutely speak up and find the courage to do so. I would say using this, I would I would chair that three step process with her of the formula, because in the moment of making a decision to step outside of your comfort zone, you have to have courage. And it's about the little things. So is having finding the courage to speak up. And I would say that thing would be. And there are lots of things I would say. It's about. I mean, I could squeeze a fourth one and be sure to yourself. To add to find your purpose. Two, to pursue finding a purpose. And when you do sue it all your might. Yes. Don't wait until you're my age, huh?   [00:42:20] I think you're killing it. So. And I love age. I've decided I'm very proud. I'm forty three. I think that a lot of my audience probably even knows my birthday by now because I don't think that you can accomplish what I've accomplished without being around 43. So to pretend to be happy young would be to be unaccomplished. And I would trade up any day. So I have your top three as find someone who won't accept excuses and push you. No. To speak up and find the courage to do so. And number three, be good to yourself and find your true purpose.   [00:42:56] Yes, I love those.   [00:42:57] I know you have a name for because I know what I'm going to be tapping into your zone of genius as to all of that. And so I thought it might be pressing you a bit hard. And I think it was beautifully done. I love those. And I want to say, Tamsin, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I know you're busy. Everyone is at once. Thank you. At home and available, but also very busy. And I really appreciate you taking the time, giving us your honest rhetoric.   [00:43:20] Appreciate you having me on. I've really enjoyed the time with you. Thank you, Patricia.   [00:43:25] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Tamsin Napier-Munn. You can find out more on raw talks, Academy dot com. And thank you for giving me your time today.   [00:43:36] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am speaking with Alexis Cano. Alexis is a native of South Texas. She holds a Bachelor's of Science degree in Psychology and is earning her Master's degree in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. As an advisor at a large university, she has trained and spoken at regional and national conferences on the topic of compassion fatigue. Her real life experience with weight loss and overcoming compassion fatigue has made her a sought after commodity.   Alexis is the mother of three boys with a passion for helping other busy moms overcome issues with food and weight. Her main goal is to help others realize they are not alone in their struggles and that every problem can be overcome with the right mindset. She outlines her simple process for overcoming food fears and losing weight permanently through intermittent fasting in her book, The What IF? Diet Plan, scheduled to release this Fall.   Key points addressed were   Alexis's book slated to release on amazon this November titled “The What IF Diet Plan” We also explore core values and misperceptions of Intermittent fasting and how the various aspects of this folklore affected various aspects of Alexis's life spanning from Highschool into adulthood   On A quick technical note, we suffered some internet delays and disturbances over the course of the podcast.  However because the issue does abate for the majority of the interview our team made the decision to go up with this version rather than edit these parts out. We appreciate your understanding and know that the interview with Alexis will be worth putting up with a few audio imperfections.   This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts

Today I am speaking with Rosalind McCallard. Rosalind (Roz) McCallard founded Snackrilege in 2014 with her husband Clayton McCallard (their last name is a portmanteau of their birth surnames, Ballard and McCartney) with a love of heavy metal, puns, and the hope of making the vegan sandwich option the easiest, tastiest option.  Rosalind has been a vegetarian for over 30 years, and vegan consistently since 2008. Snackrilege has raised thousands of dollars for sanctuaries in the Portland area through parties, raffles, and fundraisers. Roz is an active member of the Main Street Alliance, and is currently a member of Commissioner Jo Anne Hardesty's Business Council. Roz and Clayton have both spoken at various VegFests and other events, and Roz has presented on councils, panels, and committees on her experience starting a business from the ground up. Snackrilege sandwiches are currently in stores in 5 states.  Snackrilege also operates the only 100% vegan commissary kitchen in Portland that provides affordable kitchen space to small vegan businesses with an emphasis on BIPOC and woman-owned companies.  Key points addressed were  The particulars of her vegan sandwich and snack company called snackrilege and the particulars of launching and growing a vegan food company over the past 6 yearsWe also discussed Rosalind’s personal vegan story and the Portland community she thrives in and contributes to This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

Today I sit down with Jessika Noda. Jessika is the Founder of Jiyubox, a clean beauty subscription box and online shop featuring Indie beauty brands. Jiyubox came to fruition in search of breaking free from the nine to five and following her life's goals and passions. Jessika is also the Founder of Jiyu Management which helps passionate entrepreneurs and side hustlers build meaningful communities. She is passionate about helping her peers and community to become their best self and strive for success.   Key points addressed were   Jessika’s varied occupational story that led to her launch of the clean beauty subscription box that is Jiyu box We also discussed how she designed the process and curates the content of the box as well as how she defines key terms such as Indie Beauty, Cruelty Free, and Clean for the Jiyu box’s products   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

Today I am chatting with Adam Martin. Adam, commonly known and referred to  as The No Breakfast Guy is an Amazon Best Selling Author with his Book "Start Late Stay Light” and has been a practicing Exercise Physiologist for the past 15 years. Over the past decade and a half his successful  Exercise Physiology clinic has  helped 1000's of people from olympic athletes to returning war veterans, recover from major injuries and surgery to return to normal and help them live their best life. 5 years ago Adam became interested in the world of fasting, in particular the great breakfast myth, and after extensive research, authored “start late stay light” and have since helped people all over the world via introducing the “no breakfast lifestyle”  into their eating routines and free themselves from the idea that breakfast is the most important meal of the day.   Key points addressed were   The reason for his core philosophy behind his book Start Late Stay Light in which he advises clients skip what was once universally considered the most important meal of the day, breakfast We also discussed how being known as the No Breakfast Guy has formed Adam's current investigation into health and what future studies ought to be done in regards to mental health and fasting   This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts   TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with exercise physiologist, weight loss specialist, fasting coach and author Adam Martin. Key points addressed were the reason for his core philosophy behind his book, Start Late Stay Light, in which Adam advises clients Skip. What was once universally considered the most important meal of the day breakfast. We also discussed how being known as the No Breakfast guy has informed Adam's current investigation into health and what future studies ought to be done in regards to mental health and fasting. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Adam Martin.   [00:00:43] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas in an effort to explore the world of fasting from a variety of angles. This dialog is meant to develop a more complete story about the information, research, personal stories and culture in and around the science and lifestyle of fasting. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Vegan life and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen BCom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:35] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Adam Martin. Adam is an exercise physiologist, weight loss specialist, fasting coach and author. You can find out more on his website about everything we talk about today. The no breakfast guy dot com. Welcome, Adam.   [00:01:53] Thank you so much for having me on.   [00:01:54] Absolutely. I am excited to unpack everything. We're going to climb through your Adam's book and a lot of his core principles. And we are also going to get to everyone's favorite part of the show, which is our rapid fire questions, where we take questions that all of you guys have written into us. I'm looking for people in Adam's expertize to answer. But before I get to that, for everyone who is new to this show, we I will read a quick file on Adam to give you kind of a platform of where he is coming from. Before I ask him to go further into that, before I do that, however, a road map for today's podcast and the line of inquiry that we're going to be following. As I said, I'll first have Adam described the personal professional's academic story as it pertains to fasting and his narrative there. And then I'll ask him to define some terms. And these are all very for us. And I think it's best to know how he himself defines terms that we all find wrote in the community. However, everyone tends to come at them a different way after we do that. I'll turn to the core tenants of Start Late. Stay late. I'll talk to him about the audience that he was thinking of as he wrote it, as well as some of the core philosophies and structures behind it. And then we'll turn to, as I said, these rapid fire questions from our audience. And after that, we'll wrap everything up with key pieces of advice that may have for those of you who are looking to contact him or get involved, perhaps emulate some of what he's doing. As promised, a quick bio on Adam. Adam Martin is commonly known and referred to as a no breakfast guy. He's an Amazon best selling author with his book Start Late, Stay Late and has been practicing exercise physiologist for the past 15 years. Over the past decade and a half, his successful exercise physiology clinic has helped thousands of people from Olympic athletes to returning war veterans, recover from major injuries and surgery to return to normal and help them live their best life. Five years ago, Adam became interested in the world of fasting, in particular the great breakfast myth. And after extensive research authored Start Late, Stay Late and has since helped people all over the world by introducing the no breakfast lifestyle into their eating routines and free themselves from the idea that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. I know we're gonna get into that as we unpack your book as well, Adam, but before we get to that, I'm hoping you can kind of draw a narrative as to what your career trajectory and academic and personal kind of encounter was with fasting prior to writing your book and launching this philosophy of your no breakfast guy.   [00:04:26] You're certainly one, as you kind of alluded to, for 50 years now, I've been an exercise physiologist, and so most of my career was actually around, as you say, kind of helping. It will kind of come back from injuries and whether that be an Olympic athlete, the weekend warrior mom of two kids or a returning war vet, that was kind of my mainstay for a very long time. And it wasn't really until about five years ago where my sister's health was deteriorating at a rapid rate due to her struggles with obesity. And I understand fat loss. And, you know, obesity is an issue around the world. But it wasn't my passion. It wasn't when my kind of interests lie. But my mother got me a call one day and said, look, you've got to help me. You don't my daughter, your sister out. You know, something's got to change with that kind of thing. And so I said, look, she just has to eat less and move more. You know, just very simply, I don't know how else to kind of help her out. But mom was I know something something different has to be said than just that. And I could hear a different tone in her voice than I'd heard before. When we say, look, I think Sarah needs to lose some weight, he kind of thing. And so I took it upon myself then to just do a little bit of research. I'm good, I better help than just tell her eat less and move more, which is kind of, I guess, the normal narrative that kind of you hear so much these days. And just in that, I kind of came around the world of fasting throughout my research there. And I'd always been and had told all my clients up until that point of the message of breakfast is the most important meal a day. You must start the day with that. If you're not, you're much more likely to be overweight. You're not setting yourself up with enough energy and all those things that we do here and that kind of myth, that breakfast being that most important holiday. And so it just interested me from a standpoint. It was something completely different to what I'd ever come across for my entire career, my academic life in university, and kind of just all of that kind of story that it had been told to me my entire life. And so I thought just out of interest, all kind of go down that rabbit hole and see what was there. And so in that rabbit hole, I came across the different a couple of different ideas. And there was five to which Mike Mosley was kind of the guy at the time. He's from the UK. He's a doctor in the U.K. So. So what's these five? Two and. Oh, that's interesting. He's telling people not to eat a whole lot for two days and then eating normal on other days and then going further into that came around the world of breakfast might not be the most important holiday. And that's that's what really grabbed me. This idea of kind of going without food for a whole day, twice a week, and then having quite normal eating for five other days, that just didn't seem sustainable to someone like my sister. And I just thought my sister was probably the I guess the general population of people who were having issues with obesity and telling them to go without food for an entire day was kind of just something that might be too far, too far. And for them, this idea of just kind of getting rid of the morning meal, it seems more sustainable should there be something that was of interest to it. And so when I went down that kind of idea, that breakfast might not be the most important to the day, I looking at some research that was being done in kind of some of the stories that were being told, I then came around where that kind of idea came from. And as soon as I found that out, as I hang on, if the guy who invented breakfast, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg's, was the guy who invented the idea that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Well, of course, he's going to say that because he's trying to sell a product that he's a breakfast cereal. So I then kind of thought, OK, there's more to this. Let me kind of find out more about where that all came from. And so I guess that was kind of my entry into the world of fasting. And I then on that day myself just said, I'll give this a go myself. I'm a scientist. I like to kind of test my hypothesis. It's not just a he'd do this. And so I started doing myself. And actually, I'm not as hungry as I thought I would be. I'm not gonna die. I'm not losing all my energy. I'm not losing any mental clarity. All these different things that you hear that if you miss it, this is what's going to happen. So I just suggested it to my sister and said, look, mom said that we've got to try and help you out with your with your wife. You're clearly a bit unhappy at the moment. You want to try and change some things around. Your health is deteriorating. Let me try this and choose. I know what else. I've tried everything else, so why not? So it was good to see that everything else in the past that she had tried and for many people out there a week, in two weeks or whatever it might be, they jump off the wagon. That's unsustained. I don't want to do this anymore. I'm not saying results. But in two weeks time, I hadn't heard from my sister to say this is garbage, only get healthy. So I just gave her a call and said, hey, you going to go see it? Great. I'm down a couple kilos and I'm feeling all right. But, you know, this is what always happens. And in another week or two, I'll probably feel that this isn't. But again, another two weeks went by, another month went by, a couple of months went by and keeping in close contact or over that time, she just kept on losing weight and she was feeling better. And this whole no breakfast thing was really working well for I thought this is great. And that that time I was talking to clients in my clinic who have nothing to do, as I said, had nothing to do with weight loss. But a lot of these clients might kind of just had I could probably lose a couple of key lessons because I was talking about my sister. They're like, oh, that sounds great. Should I give it a go? And so I thought, why not? And so I was kind of almost creating my own kind of little case study kind of report of clients and my sister and things are that numb to kind of wrap that all up. About a year later, my sister had lost over thirty five kilos. My mom then jumped on to that to kind of help support her mom, lost twenty five kilos and then clients after client after client were losing weight and feeling good. I was I'm not someone who needs to lose weight but I felt very energetic and I felt great. And his whole no breakfast idea that been, you know, sorry. The whole breakfast is the most important of the day kind of idea. I've been told my whole life was showing out to just be completely false in my own kind of little world of people who I started doing it with plus myself. And so there is something a bit more to this. And someone just randomly said, one of my clients, it you should run a book about this. And if you talk to my twelve English teacher, my final year, they would say that I was the last person to ever write a book because my English skills are terrible. I've got terrible grammar and my kind of wrong fighting capability. Terrible weather. Why not? Maybe I could put this story together and kind of, you know, go a little bit deeper in the world of Flossie. And so I then went deep into it after that. And yet, as you said, I wrote my book and I wrote it purely just to kind of put together something that my sister could hang on to and let you know this is what you've done so far and this is how well you've done. That's all I've basically kind of did it for. I didn't mean to kind of then be sold around the world, but I kind of came around the world have been out of kind of find a publisher when we pitched the idea and the publisher said, I love the idea, let's do it. And we put it up is just as an Amazon book from Sale there. And it became an Amazon bestseller. It kind of really launch me into this world is kind of being a FETLOCKS special. So those are certainly nothing I anticipated that my career would go to and I still run my sights physiology clinic. But I tend to deal a lot more these days with referrals from GP is coming and with Type two diabetes, obesity and different conditions around that. I still say, obviously, people coming back from injuries in that kind of side of it. But a lot more of my Korina, I was spent helping people lose weight and introducing the idea that breakfast isn't the most important meal today and how it might be out to help you kind of the time, the results and kind of feel better and live a better life.   [00:11:54] Nice. Yeah. Let's climb into it. You kind of dropped us into some terms that want to get into first of all, when you are encouraging people to skip breakfast. It feels like you're already kind of introducing what's called like a 16 eight or an 18. You know, I mean, you're introducing this idea of elongating the natural fast, which is when we go to sleep at night. And I'm wondering if you knew that when you came to it or was it just kind of like breakfast seems like the most opportunistic meal to skip. I mean, you said you came into, you know, wondering who even said. I think largely we could look at our food and wonder how much of it marketing has actually fulfilled. You know, this idea, what we really think we need in this world and breathless as the most important meal of the day, certainly is the champion of that. But I'm wondering if you identify it as a completely separate category or if you do tend to get into moments of a 16 eight where you're you're fasting for 16 hours and eating for a chunk of eight, or if you don't look at it that way and how your book introduces these cycles.   [00:13:00] I think in the beginning, a lot of people like rules, like we like to kind of have something that we can kind of work by in a framework that we can kind of go by.   [00:13:09] And I think having some sort of framework that says these amanat ours be that six day night, eight, six or whatever it might be, can work for people in the beginning. But what I started define when I was giving that as a kind of guideline for people in that I was sitting there watching the clock at 11, 59 and thinking, okay, I can't eat until 12. And now at Schraub I can eat. And kind of being too, you know, hell bent on just kind of following the time and kind of getting away from the idea of just listening to your body more. I think this day and age, because we have so, so readily available access to food and anything really that we want at any point in time, we've lost that ability to kind of really listen to ourselves. Am I actually hungry? Yes, I'm doing these 18 six, and that means I should be eating at twelve o'clock because I stopped eating at a certain time last night. I don't think that just because it's twelve o'clock doesn't mean that you have to eat. Just because you can. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you have to do something. And so I got away from the idea of kind of putting a timeline on it and kind of trying to help educate people in kind of what is true hunger. And you're not going to die. And it's not the world's ending kind of problem. If you do feel hungry that we go through these natural cycles where our hormones are going to tell us that we are hungry, but that doesn't mean that we have to race out and get something straight away. And so hunger is something that I use. This kind of analogy all the time is hunger comes in waves, just like waves rolling into the beach. And that just because you start feeling hungry, hunger, hunger doesn't just take the olding. And if you kind of if anyone comes down in the end, it's possibly that 24 or 48 will be on. You understand that these waves happen and they're very tied into our kind of rhythms of life, both circadian rhythms, then kind of our usual eating habits. And so most people can probably relate and say, look around twelve o'clock, seven o'clock at night, and then in the morning, if they are breakfast, Seyda, they have these spikes of hunger. And that's just because of our hormones. But they're very easy to change in over, you know, only over a very short period of time. Whether that be a week or two weeks, people can change those kind of hormone regulations and kind of how they happen in their body quite, quite easily. And you'll find that those hunger cues that we have a lunch time or dinner time can very quickly kind of be put out completely different if you start to just listen to your body as a true. Am I truly hungry or am I just bored at the moment or have I just been on a big run and I'm just actually hungry because I've just done a peep out of exercise or whatever it might be? We can actually start tapping into that rather than just time. And so the idea of no breakfast is just skip the morning meal and then when are you next hungry? Is that at ten thirty today? Because you had a really busy day and you ran a marathon yesterday, maybe gonna be a bit hungry earlier, but maybe you had a complete quiet day yesterday. And obviously in the world we're now with Kovar going around and we're a lot more sedentary at the moment. I'm finding a lot of my clients are eating now until three or four o'clock in the afternoon because it's just they're just not hungry because we're not moving as much. And so I get away from the idea to add to your question of time and just skip the morning meal. It's not important and just eat when you are next hungry.   [00:16:18] So in that, are there tools that you give your clients or that you advise when and to help them identify hunger as opposed to thirst like you're talking about, as opposed to boredom? Do you have techniques and tips and tricks? How do you how do you get into tapping into what true hunger is?   [00:16:37] I kind of give it that five minute rule. I know a kind of Ijaw saying the five second rule, if you drop something on the floor, pick it up quick enough kind of thing.   [00:16:45] So it's just that kind of if you do feel that kind of urge of I think I could eat something now to put that to the test for five minutes. So. A glass of water and go and get yourself distracted by doing something else. Whatever that might be, if you're currently working at your computer. Get away from your computer and go and take the dog for a walk around the block. Or if you know whatever, you might be watching TV. Maybe it's something to do with you've just seen an ad for your favorite chocolate bar and it's just sparked something in your head. I could eat something, whatever it kind of might be. Just distract yourself from that situation for a couple of minutes. Have a glass of water. If after five minutes you are still hungry and you've distracted yourself from that scenario. Then sure, maybe you are actually not more so truly physically hungry rather than just emotionally hungry. And then at that point, maybe kind of look at having something depending on kind of where you are and what you kind of doing, kind of fulfilling that need at that point.   [00:17:40] How often do you find that clients that you have that you refer to kind of skipping breakfast and seeing how they feel? Go on to say that they've continued to skip more and go on to this this like I've skipped practice and lunch. Some days like this kind of encourages itself with the message.   [00:17:57] I in the beginning, when kind of doing more around the kind of idea of 16 and eight and having very strict rules around time, I found that people kind of stuck to those rules because they were kind of rules that govern their life by kind of thing. And I wouldn't go and just start extending that or kind of flirting with the idea of maybe going into, you know, one meal a day and different things like that. But with the idea of telling people just skip the morning meal and eat when you are next hungry and using some of those keys that we just spoke about before, I find that a lot of people, most of my clients who have different parts of their life and obviously that depends on how stressed they are at work or what's going on at home and just have different wives. And most of them will say that, you know, each day isn't the same. It's not like every single day at 12:00, I'm eating lunch. It just it kind of fluctuates from day to day. And a lot of them will, you know, if they're having a very busy day at work and they kind of sat at the computer all day. We'll get to the end of the day. I just realized, oh, I didn't do anything today. And I've just kept myself nice and productive. And it's now dinner time, so I'll get ready for dinner. So I do find that with as strict rules around it, that most people tend to float between kind of having one or two meals a day and it just suits them better to kind of, I guess, their their life at that particular day.   [00:19:12] How do you find a difference between when you because you're still working with clients, do you find a difference between men versus women? Is it just more of an age group? What is there are there any key factors that kind of differentiate different clients and how they perform with skipping breakfast, not particularly between genders?   [00:19:31] I haven't found a difference between men and women.   [00:19:34] I will say, though, women, depending on where they are in their cycle, it will certainly definitely play a role into that. So as it coming into having their period that I will definitely find a lot of clients and I'm very open with my clients. And I say that from the very beginning. I need to know when they things are going to die. I'm just like you, a doctor, like you wouldn't go to a doctor and just go completely. I say, I don't want to tell you about any of my kind of things that are going on in the background. So, you know, I have a very open relationship with a lot of my clients. And so I find that, yeah, with females especially, that just around that time when a period is coming on, they tend to find themselves feeling more hungry more often. And I'm completely okay with that. And I work that into their program that we might be doing, whether that's around their training or in their 80s in that kind of banking, in some extra food around that time and allowing for that over kind of month cycle and understand and educating them and letting them understand that this is normal.   [00:20:32] You should be feeling hungry at this time. And we're got to back off your training because you're gonna probably feel a less kind of inclined to want to exercise at a high intensity. But then, like about a week to two weeks time, you feel less hungry again, but you'll feel much more productive and you want to have more energy. And although so we just work that only today. But on a whole, it's not a whole lot of difference off than between men and women. And so, yeah, I just kind of guides that client by client. Really nice.   [00:20:58] Interesting. Yeah. There's a doctor based out of the San Jose San Francisco area in California, in the United States, top Dr Mindy Pelt's. And she speaks in depth to the hormone fluctuation around a woman's cycle, as well as she approaches menopause different times in her life and the different forms of fasting that can inhibit or prohibit, you know, a lot of different benefits ever. So that's interesting. And you're the first person I've heard that's kind of incorporated that into his advisory work, which I think should be looked at by a lot of people. We're going to move in to our rapid fire questions.   [00:21:35] We have a lot of people who really want to exercise physiologists, a weight loss specialist to kind of answer these questions themselves. I will just go ahead and post these to you. And what kinds of fasting have you yourself tried? And if you do go beyond the no breakfast, which kinds do you prefer to like in? On a monthly or yearly basis.   [00:21:56] So I've tried pretty much all of them. So if you've read about it, I've probably given it a go. I tried skipping dinner and kind of the more Skydeck rhythm type fasting lifestyle.   [00:22:08] Looking at the five to, you know, having a very restricted calorie diet, which technically isn't fasting because you are still eating something, but they still kind of wrap it up into kind of fasting world. Obviously, the whole no breakfast and skipping it, but then moving into the also. Oh, man. So one meal a day and basically just stacking all of your calories into one meal, and that's usually around dinner. And then I've also flirted with extended fasting. So my longest fast today is 60 hours.   [00:22:38] And I on my own podcast, interviewed some guys who did a 40 day fast, one of which was 20 days with no food whatsoever. And then I moved into two days of only juicing and fruit and things like that. But then those one of those guys actually went on to do a 40 day no food fast. We just which is extremely kind of extreme on that end of the scale. Certainly, I'll say very openly here that I don't think that that is something I would ever advise to any anyone. Not necessarily for any reason other than there's just no need to do it. I don't think you need to go through that kind of suffering to kind of get some of the benefits that they were proposing would come from that. But certainly, I think a two or three day fast is something that a lot of us can benefit from from a mental standpoint. There's definitely some physiological benefits that, you know, they're starting to research on. And I don't want to sit here and say on someone who would be giving you clarity on what that research is. I'm certainly looking at it and kind of trying to understand it myself. But as far bit of people out there that can kind of talk to the physiological benefits that might be coming from an extended two or three day fast. But personally, I certainly try and do one of those maybe every I say couple of months, you know, every quarter or so, just as kind of as I said for me, as a mental kind of reset, sometimes I could just be I'm just getting into life and it's just kind of, you know, I'm just a bit busy and hectic and I just kind of need one big reset. It's a really good place to kind of put me mentally because going two or three days without food, it's not easy. Yeah, there's certainly times in that that it gets very challenging. But I think challenging yourself and doing things that do put you out of your comfort zone, I think in all aspects, whether that's fasting or whether that's, you know, trying to do your first marathon or whatever it kind of might be. I think he's always a very good thing, not only physiologically, but I'm certainly looking much more these days to the kind of mental health benefits that that can play out and whether that can then help. Someone had a physical benefit because of the mental benefits it has. So, yeah, I think myself, I've certainly tried most of them and I certainly recommend them to a lot of my clients as well.   [00:24:43] And so, yeah, so really quickly, we didn't go over it. Do you consider fasting a fasted state to be juicing? It's largely accepted in the United States when we talk in the fasting communities that if you're consuming calories, you're not in a fasted state. But you mentioned, you know, people doing just fasting and things like that. What is fasting to you?   [00:25:02] I'm with you there. It shouldn't include any color. So if and I know people say that if it's under 50 calories, there's no insulin response.   [00:25:11] Therefore, you're still in a fasted state and things like that. But I go to the letter of the law as if fasting is zero calories. And so I even go to the point of no coffee on black coffee and herbal teas and things like that. I say have no calories. They say no calories, but they are do minimal calories. And so purely, when I am in a fasted state, I am in a completely fasting state. And water is the only thing that I will have. But again, you know, there's greater reason people can kind of play with that area, what they like. And at the end of the day, it's kind of what what works best for you. That means you need to have a coffee because you want that boost from caffeine or whatever it might be, then so be it. But yet, personally, on zero calories is a to say anything else. Now, you're not technically fasting now.   [00:25:56] What is some of the misconceptions? The most common misconceptions that you run into that people have regarding skipping meals or fasting around skipping breakfast?   [00:26:05] It has to be, I hear all the time. But I will die. I will absolutely starve if I don't have the morning meal. And I always just kind of just go back to the point is, if I have a gun to your head and said you don't eat today, I guarantee you you'll get to lunchtime or beyond because there is a there's a far bigger consequence to you not having that meal, whereas if you just don't skip a meal, you just feel there's no real consequence. If I had something in the morning. So people like to catastrophizing that kind of idea that if I skip that morning meal, but I find very quickly with most people who are open to the idea, like, you know, people might coming. I don't know. I'm a bit nervous about this and kind of skipping raffish. I've eaten my whole life. And normally when I get to the office at 9:00, I'm very hungry. I understand that idea. And if you if it's. Something that you've done for your entire life. If you're 30, 40, 50, 60 years of age and you're only coming to this idea of skipping breath. Now, of course, those first few days I'd be first week or first couple weeks might be challenging. But as I said earlier on in this podcast is that our hormone regulation is something that we can manipulate quite, quite easily. And the hunger hormone is definitely one of those ones we can manipulate quite easily. And so I find that most clients lose that misconception very quickly once I give it a try. So that's definitely the main misconception. And the other one is that there's been too many correlation based studies which are on the bottom run of kind of studies. Yes, they serve a purpose, but, you know, cause a correlation isn't causation. And so too many studies have been done, say he's a population of overweight people and then they serve them. Are you someone who skips breakfast? And a lot of them tend to do actions that are unhealthy for them, be that not exercise much. They might smoke, they might drink and all these other things. Plus they don't eat breakfast. And so they up breakfast was the reason why you're overweight. And so that's a correlation they're making. And so a lot of misconceptions around that is that if you skip breakfast, that you're much more likely to be overweight, which is just not the case. And so that's another one that I hear all the time. But very quickly dispel when people kind of come to me and they start losing weight and saying results, I'm like, oh, my God, I was told that I would you know, my body would store body fat if I didn't have breakfast. And so that's probably they're probably the two biggest ones and two biggest kickbacks I get from when people are starting out in these kind of world.   [00:28:33] Absolutely. A lot of people wanted to know from someone of your expertize and background. There is a lot of athlete there are a lot of athletes that receive a great deal of benefit in recovery from extreme sports and distance runners and things like that, particularly that I've spoken with that have come to fasting for some of the repairing and healing properties and fasting states with autophagy or antiinflammatory measurements from even two, three, four day fast. And for you personally, what is the greatest health benefit that someone receives from fasting outside of weight loss?   [00:29:09] It kind of alluded to it before, but I'm really going into the world of kind of the mental health.   [00:29:14] I think mental health is a huge issue around the world these days, and I can only talk to the statistics in Australia. But I mean, in particular, it's about 10 people per day, but eight main per day commit suicide in Australia every single day. And that's just it. It's a number that you shouldn't exist in. So I'm not saying that skipping breakfast and fasting is going to solve that issue, but I'm very interested in kind of how mentally we can help people. And I think fasting because it is a challenge and it said a challenge that is kind of word I can use best. It's a it's a challenge. It isn't a stress to the body that we already have these days. You know, we all live very stressful lives and we kind of I'm surrounded by stressful things going on all the time. But I think if you're kind of acutely stressing yourself in a guided way, I think that that can be a very big benefit to you. And it can certainly start to focus your mind away from the areas that you might be kind of dealing with at that particular time. And so I've certainly found that the mental health benefits for people. Right, from people who might be going through some depressive states or anxiety issues or things like that. Again, this is not a cure. And I really want to kind of be upfront with that. And I don't want someone who's sitting who's depressed. My call I'll just start skipping breakfast and that'll cure me from my depression. That's not the case. But I certainly think that there's some benefits to the mental health aspect. Our health look go far beyond weight loss. And I tend to find that people having issues with weight loss and who have big issues, obesity, 20, 30, 40, 50 kilos overweight, there's usually some sort of mental health issue that's going to tap alongside that, whatever that might be. And so if I kind of get away from the idea of you just need to lose weight and we kind of get back into the world of like, why are you unhappy? Why are you making these decisions around your health and wellbeing that, you know, don't make you happy? Let's talk about that mental health and let's clear your mind. Let's get to kind of more focused on something else. It tends to flow on to a having a flow on effect of helping with that loss anyway. And so I'm really starting to do myself, but also work with that that mental health space.   [00:31:23] Yeah, absolutely. I think it's uncovered uncharted territory as of yet as well. And adding weight loss is always fun for people to focus on with any new thing. But definitely, you know, for thousands of years with philosophers and people with the mental aspect as people who listen to this podcast as the reason why I came to fasting as a bit of an academic junkie and I was looking for that mental clarity edge and things like that, you know, fasting has always been tossed around and it's just got a lot like a time. Stamp on it. And if it's used right, I think it's better than any cup of coffee or possible horrific drug or a chemical that you can put in your body to kind of really clarify the brain's activities and things like that and agree more. We had a lot of people that have written in about resources that you look towards. So Web sites, even people who are, you know, influencers, doctors, boards, a different expos, conventions, where do you kind of go to to glean your current information and kind of stay current with the fasting community?   [00:32:30] I'm probably gonna be a bit off topic for you on that question.   [00:32:35] I don't tend to do a lot of kind of reading in the fasting realm kind of exclusively anymore. I'm much more looking kind of to nutrition in kind of how to aid nutrition and kind of when we are eating. I've kind of spoken for years about kind of the idea of kind of skipping breakfast and flossing and things like that. And so for me, my kind of topic is now kind of, well, fasting is just something you should be doing if you're coming across me and my information these days. It's something you're probably already interested in. You probably done your reading. So now what's important is I think feeding and people kind of forget that feeding ourselves is a very important thing. And so we shouldn't forget that, not just kind of focus on the fasting side of things. And so I look to people who are talking some sense and have some science and research around them, around the nutrition side of things. So someone like Dr. Spencer at Wolski, who is in the States as well. Alan Aragón. Allen Aragón is probably the most prolific research person I've ever come across. I've been lucky enough to have him on my podcast, and it was one of the best half an hour's I've ever been out to have. It was just great to kind of hear people want that. I'm a scientist myself, and so I come from a science standpoint and I want to know that the person I'm speaking to or kind of going to is is presenting their information from some sort of research. And science is flawed. Absolutely. And a lot of people like to kind of say, oh, look at the holes in that research. Yes, I understand this for was in it, but it's what we have. And I think it's the best thing we have. And we can't just sit there and listen to our favorite influence just because it's an opinion they have. I stay well away from people who are just opinion driven. Sure. Have your opinions. But you're going to be at a back that up somehow. And so you're looking to anyone. And I just kind of rather than, say, a specific person, I know I listed two people there, but I would just kind of when you are looking to kind of do any research, you kind of look to people. Is it? Don't be afraid to ask them a question. Is I have you got research to back up what you've just said? And if that person's says I just find it yourself or it's not something I can get to now or, you know, I don't have research for it, then I'd be second guessing what you're reading or what you're hearing from that person. And that's kind of the, I guess, the point of view I'd like to get across and kind of answer that question of who to look for. Kind of what I look for. And that's kind of where I come from.   [00:34:56] Nice. Absolutely. My final question was about machinery. A lot of people write in asking about ways and levels and things to measure. So there's there's ketones. There's glucose levels. There's all these different things and machinery that people who get into your fasting or try to utilize it for a myriad of different reasons try to keep control of all these different levels.   [00:35:18] What would your advice be for a client that was trying to garner a sense of levels and what those levels mean or apparatus that you need to buy from the simple ketone strips all the way up to, you know, um, glucose measuring armbands that you can get?   [00:35:32] I hope I'm all right to say this, but I have a thing called the scale of shit that matters.   [00:35:37] So at the at the very bottom, you know, it's obviously the thing that holds up all the foundations that hold up the rest of our house. And as we go up that scale of shit that matters, it gets less and less and less important. And I think to the athlete who's trying to get to a gold medal and AIDS point zero, one second difference to allow them from being a bronze medal Bullis to a gold medal. So, you know, someone at that extreme end, they're already doing all of those foundations. They're exercising well. They're watching their stress levels. You know, all of their food and their nutrition is completely itemized for that. They're doing all of those foundations that those little scenes of. Where's this level of my blood sugar? Where's my recovery at? Where's my lactate? Fresh. All of those different things that you can measure actually make a difference for that person and for their result at the end. But I think the majority of people that know ninety nine point nine, nine percent of the population, they're just not doing the fundamentals and they're worrying about this one percent thing that could make a difference for one percent. But you've got to put in all this effort just to get that one percent. You can get 85 percent of your results if you're wanting by just sticking to these fundamentals and those fundamentals being to make sure you getting in enough protein. I find a lot of people just aren't getting any any in anywhere enough protein out there. And that comes from both people who eat animals and who don't eat animals. So whether your Vegan or not, people aren't getting enough protein. So certainly get enough protein to help with muscle protein synthesis or, you know, building lean muscle tissue and maintaining, especially when you're weight loss face, but also looking to getting in enough calories. I think a lot of people kind of scared of calories. I hear that word and go, oh, my God. Calories are the enemy. If I eat something, that's where I put on weight. Our body needs fuel, and so we need to be fueling it enough. And the other big one that I say right is at the bottom of that foundation to kind of build you sleep. People just don't pay enough attention to their sleep. And so make sure you're getting, you know, seven to nine hours sleep every single day. And that's quality sleep if you can get those things right. You won't ever have to worry about ketone strips and watching your blood sugar levels and things like that. But if you do that, all right. For a year and you're seeing some great results and you want to kind of flirt with other ideas of how could I get an extra kind of benefit from what I'm already doing here, then sure. Going down some of those routes where you can actually measure something and always use the term. If you measure something, you can track something, you track something, you can make a difference with it. And so if you wanted to make a difference in it, you need to be out to say, well, where's my starting point? Where am I now? That's when you could start going down those realms of trying different things. You could kind of actually test where those levels are at. But I'd say for most people listening to this podcast, and I'm just presuming your audience, but the same as my audience as well, is it just forget all of these things and kind of put your efforts into the things that are going to give you the best return for your value, and that is the city's or any nutrition, your sleep on your protein intake.   [00:38:29] Yeah, I concur. I think it's sleep is when people just don't speak about enough. It's you know, it's it's huge on the list with every psychotherapist I have talked to. But outside of that, I agree. Well, we are out. I want to say thank you so much for giving us all of your information and your early morning in Australia today. I really appreciate you giving us your time and your expertize at all.   [00:38:52] Thank you very much for your time. And yeah, hopefully something I've said has been its value to your audience.   [00:38:56] I have no doubt. And for those of you listening, we have been speaking with Adam Martin. He is an exercise physiologist, weight loss specialist, fasting coach and author. You can find out more about everything that he does as well as his book Start Late, Stay late on the, you know, breakfast guy dot com. And thank you for giving us your time today. I appreciate all of you. And it's so we speak again.   [00:39:18] Next time, remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean when you do eat and always bet on yourself.  

Chatting with Sonalie Figueiras. Serial social entrepreneur Sonalie is the founder & editor-in-chief of Green Queen, an award-winning impact media platform advocating for social & environmental change in Hong Kong with a mission to shift consumer behaviour through inspiring & empowering original content. She is also the founder & CEO of Ekowarehouse, the global sourcing platform for certified organic products, with a mission to make safe, quality food accessible & affordable for the whole planet. With over a decade of experience in publishing, digital marketing, organic trade and health & sustainability, she is an eco wellness industry veteran with a keen eye for market trends and a sought-after international speaker and moderator, sharing her expertise on stages across Asia and beyond, including TEDx and Harvard Business School. Key points addressed were  Sonalie’s immense impact media platform called Green Queen and how it has risen to be one of the most prominent media platforms for vegan issues in all of Asia.We also discussed Sonalie’s predictions as to where the vegan world is headed in the next 5 years and how she believes this pivotal time will not only reshape the worldwide economy but also require a mental adjustment for the current vegans in it This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

Today I am speaking with Susan Hunt Stevens. Susan is the Founder & CEO of WeSpire, an award-winning employee experience technology platform focused on engaging people in purpose-driven initiatives, ranging from sustainability to social impact, holistic wellbeing, and inclusive cultures. She founded WeSpire to use her digital behavior change expertise to help people embrace healthier and more sustainable lifestyles after her son was diagnosed with serious food allergies. She was named an EY Entrepreneur of the Year for New England, a Boston Business Journal Woman of Influence, and to the Environmental Leader 100 list. Prior to WeSpire, she spent 9 years at The New York Times Company, most recently as SVP/General Manager for Boston.com, a $60M digital media division.   Key points addressed were   The core tenants of WeSpire and their goal to help companies actualize integration and processes increasing aspects of company values, positive work culture, sustainability, well being, and social impact under each company’s unique purview   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

Today I am talking with Dr. Mindy Pelz. Dr. Mindy Pelz, DC, is crazy passionate about helping families stay healthy. For the past 22 years, she has been in the health trenches with busy, overscheduled families. She has built one of the largest holistic health clinics in Silicon Valley with patients coming to her from all over the world for her customized ketobiotic, fasting, detox, and nutritional approaches. Her focus is to give families simple, science-based effective health tools that have all members of the family thriving.    Her bestselling book, The Reset Factor, was released in 2015, giving people all over the world access to a clear step-by-step path to creating a healthy, vibrant, energy-filled life free from disease and suffering. The launch of her book ignited a “Resetter tribe,” an online group of like-minded people all supporting each other, exchanging health ideas, and cheering each other on to better health. Once a month Dr. Mindy leads her Resetter tribe through a free Fast Training Week, where all community members practice different styles of fasting together.   Currently Dr. Mindy's passion is educating women on how to do keto, fasting, and diet variation to impact their hormonal health. You can find much of her information laid out in a very simple and easy-to-approach, motivating manner on her youtube channel. (which you can locate by searching Dr. Mindy Pelz on youtube). She just published a new book that we will be unpacking here today titled The Menopause Reset: Get Rid of Your Symptoms and Feel Like Your Younger Self Again.   Key points addressed were   Dr. Mindy's book titled: The Menopause Reset: Get Rid of Your Symptoms and Feel Like Your Younger Self Again in which she lays out 5 lifestyle changes she believes can produce a symptom free Menopause journey We also discussed the unique relationship between fasting and hormone regulation only recently being studied and practice by the public at large and her advice to women in regards to diet and fasting in all stages of Menopause   This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts

Today I am chatting with Chef Jennifer Markell. Jennifer is the creative mind behind the website and blog veganitreal.com and founder, owner and operator of Vegan It Real Personal Chef Services located in the Tampa Bay area. Since 2017 Jennifer has been standing at the forefront of the plant-based movement with a mission to “veganize” the planet, one meal at a time. As a certified holistic nutritionist and a certified plant-based chef, Jennifer embraces Hippocrates’ concept that “food is thy medicine and medicine is thy food.” She is driven by her passion to bring delicious and nutritious meals to hear clients’ tables along with the knowledge that real, whole food is good for the environment, the animal and your health! Key points addressed were  Jennifer’s education and certification regarding nutrition and plant based whole foods within the arenas of vegan diets, cooking, and healthWe also discussed Jennifer’s collaborative efforts via her services as well as her prediction as to where she thinks the plant based and vegan food scenes are headed in the next 5 years This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with chef, blogger, founder, owner and operator of Vegan, it real personal chef services Jennifer Markell. Key points addressed were Jennifer's education and certification regarding nutrition and plant based Whole Foods within the arenas of Vegan diets, cooking and health. We also discussed Jennifer's collaborative efforts via her services, as well as her prediction as to where she thinks the plant based in Vegan food scenes, are headed in the next five years. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jennifer Markell. [00:00:41] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Acom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:38] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Jennifer Markell. Jennifer is a chef, blogger, founder, owner and operator of Vegan Real Personal Chef Services. You can find out more on her Web site about herself, her services and everything we talk about today on her Web site. W w w dot Vegan it real dot com. That is BGA and i t r e l dot com. Welcome, Jennifer. [00:02:05] Hi. So happy. I'm so happy to be here. It's so great to be here. [00:02:09] Absolutely. I'm excited to climb through everything with you. I really love your web. I like the services that you offer. And I know our audience is really going to benefit from everything that we talk about today. For those of you listening, that might be news on this podcast. I will proffer a quick bio on Jennifer. But before we get to that, a roadmap for the line of inquiry, the trajectory that will that line of inquiry will go. We'll first look at Jennifer's academic and culinary nutritional background and training, and then we'll turn towards unpacking her personal Vegan story if it hasn't already been mentioned in the aforementioned. And then we'll unpack Vegan it real Web site, the services, info, education, collaboration, all of the kind of efforts that Jennifer has involved with that. Then we'll turn our efforts towards answering rapid fire questions. For those of you that are returning, these are questions that you have submitted to our Web site, w w w dot, Patricia, Kathleen, dot com and reached out. We always encourage our audience to ask questions based on any profession that we might run into if any of our series and we will get those up on air. And under that we will get to about seven to 10 rapid fire questions that some of you have for Vegan chefs and people in the Vegan food industry who wrap the entire podcast up with them. Thoughts that Jennifer has for things that may be on the horizon in the Vegan food scene and services and collaborative work in culinary enterprises and all that good stuff. [00:03:27] So, as promised, a quick bio on Jennifer. Chef Jennifer Markell is the creative mind behind the website and blog, Vegan it real and founder, owner and operator of Vegan it real personal chef services located in the Tampa Bay Area since 2017. Jennifer has been standing at the forefront of the plant based movement with a mission to organize the planet. One meal at a time. [00:03:51] As a certified holistic nutritionist and a certified plant based chef, Jennifer embraces Epocrates concept that food is a medicine and medicine is the food. She is driven by her passion to bring delicious and nutritious meals to her clients tables, along with the knowledge that real whole food is good for the environment, the animal and your health. So, Jennifer, I love, you know, a lot of your focus. I've looked through all a lot of your information across your social media accounts, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, on your Web site, of course. And you you really do hit that points hard. And so I'm really happy that it's in your bio, this kind of food, as they medicine, let it be as such. And before we climb into your Web site and some of the ethos and the philosophy behind it, I was hoping you could draw out a little bit further your academic and culinary and nutritional training that you've had that led you to launching Vegan. [00:04:44] Oh, sure. Sure. So it's really, you know, one of those stories where I had spent almost most of my adult life until almost middle age in the corporate world. [00:04:58] And after a horrible, you know, layoff in 2013, that was when I had an opportunity to reevaluate things and submerge myself into learning what it was. [00:05:12] That was going to be my next step in life, my next career. And I wasn't going settle. So what I did was I started doing my own research on food. I learned a lot about organic food. And it was solely just self driven research podcast and TED talks and working actually part time for an organic farmer. So just moving myself closer to the food food systems, food producers. And then in two thousand and eighteen, early 2018, when my mother became ill, very, quite ill. [00:05:55] I was really to the tipping point of deciding, you know, do I want to go back into the corporate world or really just take that leap of faith into my education and my knowledge and learning about food for medicine. So I enrolled in what I could at the time, what I was able to do for my work life balance. I was, you know, a mom of a mom of four kids, two of my own, two stepchildren. You know, I run a home and I had other part time work that I was doing so I couldn't just go and roll into, you know, the call the local college and become a full time student. And I couldn't go to culinary. Well, that was pretty much out of the question for me. So what I decided to do was investigate some holistic nutrition opportunities. There's a few out there and I enrolled in a six month training program that was fully online, a one on one coaching program through American fitness professionals and associates a f, p, a and graduated at top of the class for it with my holistic nutrition certification. So I really understood I had that piece, that credential to really tie food to the body. And I understood how food was both making a sick and healthy at the same time. But that wasn't enough for me. I knew that it worked well, but I really still only knew how to cook, you know, the vegetables that I was used to. And I really didn't know how to take advantage of all the great products out there. [00:07:36] So then I decided to get a little bit of culinary credential and again, did a lot of investigative research, talked to a lot of chefs out there. [00:07:46] What did they do? And again, knowing called actual culinary school was out of the question. I enrolled in Ruby R.O. you. It's so funny. Everybody thinks it's are you b y? But it's not. It's a French word. R o u x b e. And it was a Ruby International online culinary program and they had what was a very focused plant based culinary professional program. [00:08:11] And it's a six month self-paced program where you have access to actual chefs through an interactive program online. So I was able to take that six month program, graduate within four months and really have a really great understanding of not only how food is for your body, good for your body, but also how to actually make it taste good and try to work to convert some of those folks who think that tofu and kale are bad and disgusting. [00:08:46] So I really then I felt like, wow, I have a really good grasp on that knowledge. So, you know, it was important for me, even just when I was a blogger, but definitely when I was going into a culinary profession to have some kind of credential, I just didn't want I wanted to have that education. However, I could get it something that I could say, yes, I took the time to do that. And then just to kind of add on to that and we'll talk about the business in a minute. This year I went and received my certification as a food safety manager. [00:09:21] So funny enough, in January of this year, I learned all about cross contamination and food safety. And now, you know, I could technically go in and, you know, open a restaurant and be part of that food safety and security part of it, because I've been certified there, too. So education was really important to me and I couldn't go mainstream. So I kind of piecemealed my education. And to this day, I just just get involved in lots of different research and my own driven research and try to keep a very diverse and inclusive set of resources that I go to that are also unbiased. That's one thing I learned in my training. Follow the source of the funding. [00:10:07] Thanks. You know, I hope that answers your question. [00:10:10] I'm curious, given that you have this NFPA mixed with Ruby, you know, so from from a layperson's term, NFPA sounds kind of like the holistic dietary, you know, nutrient side of it. And the ruby sounds like it was teaching as flavor you flavors technique, how to bring in some of, you know, those aspects to your cooking. And in that sense, I'm curious which one leads Flagship to your recipe development? Do you first think about nutrition or do you first think about flavor? [00:10:41] OK. That's a great question and here's why. And here's why I developed Vegan it real and there's a story behind that. So I like to keep veganism real. So I, I started off really becoming focused on the nutrition and plant based piece of it. [00:10:59] But then I realized the way to people and the way to maybe transform people's lifestyles is to keep the food real. So I then started focusing on the flavor side of things and the Shefi side of me kind of came out and I, I wanted to play with the new products out there and I wanted to see if I could fool my friends or my family with, you know, the latest plant based sausage. And so that's where I kind of got away from that Whole Foods plant based. [00:11:34] No oil, salt, sugar menz. Ality, but still with that said. I try to really I don't submerge myself in, like, the deep fry and, you know, oil frying and things like that. So I'm very conscious. And I was so thankful for that training. But it's it's a great question because initially I thought I would go into that coaching about food for health. But then once I got into the kitchen and started playing with food, I couldn't get out. [00:12:05] Yeah, it sounds like it sounds like a great love for flavor and the culinary arts. You know, that's those dimensions. Is it the French, the triangle of of spices or flavors that affect you? I can't remember. I was talking. It's not my forte, but I was speaking and chef one time when they were talking about the simplicity of patissier and things like that and really getting into the French flavors and the classical techniques that are developed around those very simple moments and deaths. It's an absolute art, you know. No doubt. No doubt about that. I want to kind of unpack Vegan it real for a minute now before we start getting into, like, the key components that someone will hit when they hit your side, some of the services you offer and the collaboration and things like that that I'm actually quite moved by. I want to first know personally how you define the terms plant based. You've gotten into the Whole Foods and how, you know, keeping it real was more an introductory and a conversion from people who were eating meat. But how do you personally define plant base as opposed to injecting position or next to defining Vegan? [00:13:11] Absolutely. And it is confusing. And that's why I use. I usually say I'm a plant based vegan because veganism is really a movement. [00:13:24] Veganism in itself is a movement. So when in vegans, you know, true vegans who are passionate about the animals and driven towards that activism will definitely call you to the mat on how you define yourself, you know? But so veganism itself is a movement. However, when you are when you eat a vegan diet, you will allow for those processed foods. So you might go get the annys mac and cheese and you might go get the Gardein bagged, frozen, you know, check on Nugget's, you know, the fake chicken nuggets and the plant based processed foods to incorporate into your daily life as a supplement when you are living a Whole Foods plant based lifestyle, those processed foods are very, very, very limited. If if you incorporate them at all. And it's funny because one of the things I learned in my research and doing my through my education and tea calling Campbell is a hero who who's book who whose books I have read, sometimes more than once. And in reading those types of resources and folks material, I didn't realize that you can still incorporate fish and meat and cheese into a plant based diet. Right. Plant based diet is really 90 percent of what you are consuming is whole. It's, you know, so whole grains. It's it's not your process greens. It's not your process. We test your whole wheat, your, your whole Raices, all of those foods and your fruits and vegetables. But it allows for a very small portion of animal based products. Veganism does not allow for any portion of animal based products. I mean, and so that's why as far as when I define myself, some people will relate more to the plant based side of things for the health. And some people relate more so to the veganism for the movement. And interestingly enough, I started to be plant based and Vegan for the health. And now I am holistically for everything, the animals, the health and the planet, because I have just learned so much. It's kind of you kind of have to embrace all three. [00:16:00] Yeah. I feel like that's kind of the narrative that's really common along a lot of people's lines. You know, the gateway into what led to plant based vegan lifestyle. It starts to curing itself. You know, I, I just haven't spoken to a vegan who's been Vegan for five years that still trying to score, you know, the Gardein chicken stuff as much anymore. It starts to be right off. If they came at it from the environment, again, that has something to do with age and education. But I think that it's an interesting tie in. So given your personal Vegan. [00:16:37] I mean, you've you went along this whole path you had. Did you have a health improvement when you came Vegan? [00:16:43] Well, funny enough, I will say I'm novice, so I have only been completely Vegan for three years. It was three years. June 24th, I believe, was our anniversary. June 24th was my anniversary. And then my husband and my stepdaughter, me and her, her. Their anniversary is, quote, a goal. They say July 1st. So two thousand seventeen. So three years. I'm I'm I'm very, you know, very early in my veganism compared to some folks who I have come into contact with who have never eaten meat or have never eaten a plant based product or, you know, plant or I'm sorry. Animal based product before. So, you know, I have so much to learn and I never, ever want somebody things that I have it all figured out because I am not the expert. But I did notice changes and we noticed changes a lot, especially initially, because you think you're going to lose weight and you don't. Some people don't. And we gained weight. And then, you know, and then we felt, you know, bloated all the time. And so you start to question yourself in the commitment. Same thing with any other, you know, change or trying to make. And we did. And, you know, my husband had suffered for, gosh, since almost since the time I had met him in 2012 with what was called chronic to Carea, which is chronic hives. And you don't know why and you can't figure out why. Surely after I would say within six months to a year of going Vegan, his hives disappeared completely. And this is by no means and this is just my personal story. I have TMJ and I've had diagnosed and received cortisone shots for pre arthritis conditions, you know, pain and things like that. Wow, what a difference. I now I hardly ever have pain where I used to have pain. I'm not not saying that I don't get older and we don't have pains, but I just saw an overwhelming sense of. Feeling young. Just feeling better. [00:19:02] I don't know how to describe in a lot of vegans, it's hard to describe. You just feel. And I. I almost think that there's a connection between the animal consumption and, you know, your your mind and where your head that because you just feel a little lighter. No pun intended. But over the course of three years, for instance, I do not. I eat as much as I want today without having to worry about a calorie. I don't. I try to just eat a little bit of everything that the Earth has given us. You know, every day I don't stress about what I'm going to, you know, if I'm going get on the scale and it's going to say five pounds heavier or not. Because I just know that's gonna all, you know, just just shake on it. And I have seen over the course of the first two years, my husband and I equally lost between 15 and 20 pounds. And people would look at us and they said, well, you didn't need to lose 15 or 20 pounds. But clearly we did because it it just you know, now we are at optimum weights, you know? I mean, I weigh less now than I did in high school as. And he's the same way. And we are you know, he's fifty one and I'm hearing that a hitch. [00:20:19] Yeah. And there's, I mean there's future payoffs as well. [00:20:23] I think, you know, the immediate health turnaround. I've never spoken with anybody who was under the age of 30 that didn't go from eating some kind of animal byproduct or animal based diet to Vegan that didn't have an alleviation from everything from occasional pains. Athletes that just have less inflammation to, you know, turnaround's of chronic issues, you know, with autoimmune and diabetes and all sorts of things that I'm certainly not the first to chronicle these. You know, there's them what the health and conspiracy and all of these stories that kind of implement that health aspect and people that dedicated their lives to it. But it is a common theme. And when you don't speak with anybody who doesn't have a story like that, it just becomes like, wow. And then there's the future. You know, there's there's less of Alzheimer's with, you know, with. Yeah, Vegan Dice's. There's correlation studies being done. There's just some of the things that come to get all of us in our older age seem to be at least a lesser extent, which is kind of a nice aspect in addition to saving the planet for our future generations, as well as being kind to other sentient beings. [00:21:32] Oh, absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head. I had mentioned, you know, my mom was was very ill and she suffered from Crohn's disease for many, many, many years, many undiagnosed years as well prior to that. And along with some of her other conditions that I visibly expert, you know, saw and experienced firsthand in what she went through, I chose that, you know, to make a lifestyle change. I you know, I chose that. I didn't want to experience those things because a lot of Alzheimer's runs in my mother's side of the family. She had several sisters that were diagnosed with it as well. And you know it. [00:22:15] You start to think, gosh, do I want to start taking pills to try to avoid these things that I could genetically, you know, inherit? Or do I want to change those and try to repair those broken DNA as cells to actually repair them and not just put a Band-Aid on them with the actual food that we were meant to eat. So you made a great point it all. [00:22:41] It all began and continues to this day because I don't want to have to rely on, you know, a medicine cabinet when when I'm much older. [00:22:51] You right? Yeah, absolutely. It's it's a great fear of mine to discover how many of my colleagues were on, you know, Daily Pharmaceuticals at the age of 40 was daunting for me. [00:23:02] I am not sure I could keep up with the time getting up on the same time every day. [00:23:08] I'm wondering, unpacking your Web site was interesting for me. I want to know about some of the impetus that when you went to launch it because it's different then. You know, I can't get enough of Vegan food Web sites anyway. I'm a kind of suer of sorts. But yours has a very unique and different tone to it. And I'm thinking that had something to do with some of the reason, the impetus behind the inspiration. Can you kind of speak to what inspired you to launch it? [00:23:35] Sure. Well, it's been it's been a long time in the making. And I was actually fortunate enough to have a great web designer that helped me push it over the edge there and get it launched, because I'll tell you, if it was up to me, I would I would have never pulled the trigger because it was never good enough. But thank you. Thank you. Because it's gone through a few different transformations. I initially, as mentioned when I started looking at a new career in food, was going to look at the consulting and the coaching and the the blogging and being able to get my voice out there and my message heard and try to just bring more awareness to veganism and the really real ness of it. [00:24:25] And so it started off as more of like, hey, I'm gonna sit here and I'm going to blog about food and I'm going to coach people. [00:24:33] And then again, once I got submerged into the food, I was getting asked a lot of questions about my recipes. And I would post a picture. And, you know, obviously people want to know what's in it. And. And so I just said, you know, I got to start documenting it. And so I do have a good amount of recipes out there. [00:24:56] I'd love to have more recipes out there. I focus on my blog. I was also doing some big in travel with my husband a little bit, whereas when I say Vegan travel, we would pick a destination that had a big Vegan footprint so I could go taste all the food. I mean, I'm a foodie. That's we were driven by food at some point. So there's some on there about my art Vegan travel that's kind of been nipped in the bud right now. [00:25:24] But then up until just recent. So I was really focused on the informing, you know, let's inform people. Let's share my experience. Let's share the products that work for me. Share the food tips that work for me. And then once I started seeing that my recipes were making a difference and that I was going to pursue the actual culinary piece of it. That's when I have been transforming. And it's still going through a transformation if you go out there into the personal chef services. So I wanted to make. I wanted to keep Vegan it real the brand altogether because I love my brand and I wanted to also incorporate that services piece into the Web site where my locals could go out and take advantage of the services that I do offer from a personal chef's perspective. So it's gone through quite a few transformations, and I'm pretty certain that when my web designer receives an email from me, she shakes her head and, you know, it's it against the wall or something. But yeah, she I'm to the point where I can go in and just not break it. [00:26:35] But it's definitely going through transformations and I do get a lot of feedback on it. I'm not big into advertising, you know, right now. [00:26:45] I like I like people to just go get the information and keep it raw and real and transparent. I'm not necessarily out at my site to make money. I just want people to really profit off the information that I bring. [00:26:59] And that's what it seems like. It really feels like it's even curated the recipes that you have. [00:27:04] Yeah, photos are beautiful and the stuff that you're making. And I fancy myself, you know, in a fairly tidy, Vegan, self-taught chef. And they're beautiful. You know, I was looking at some of the reinventions, even the cheesy, like sausage and tartar torte, Vegan casserole and just different things like that. You know, I really it was inspirational. [00:27:28] The Tater Tots casserole. [00:27:29] Yay, not tartar casserole. I have children. These are the types of things that I'm thinking. I could make that a little bit more fun, particularly when they have friends over that. You're trying to kind of woo into this whole like, no, we're not a weird household. This is this is a great way of eating. I'm curious, you have a collaboration. You kind of tapped touched on it. It's this seems like the future of you know, it's the fact that you're constantly evolving the site and things like that that's, I think, evolve or die. Right. And the collaboration aspect of it is really the area that I feel a lot of chefs in general, Vegan chefs, you know, they go and they might eat at someone's establishment or get some information or get on someone's Instagram feed. But you never hear about this collaborative moment, like, let's work together, let's apply my lens to yours. Where do you see that heading in your future? [00:28:20] Well, I'm fortunate because I have a ton of an area that's very new to the Vegan world where I live in the Tampa Bay area. I would say it's fairly new compared to, say, like Portland or, you know, something that has a much bigger Vegan footprint. So Vegan Vegan restaurants are popping up all over. And which means that the Vegan footprint, the plant base, cost conscious eater footprint is growing every day. So I recently plugged into, you know, all the restaurants because we we like to convert more vegans. We're never going to. [00:28:59] For everybody, so we I think and this is just this is I think a lot of the business owners around here would say the same thing. We promote each other's business. We don't compete for their business, the business, the client business. So I may go to my local Vegan Deli and, you know, take a picture and promote, promote, promote on my pages. And they're certainly gonna scratch my back, too. They're gonna promote my food, even though, you know, I'm cooking for other people. And it might feel like I'm taking away from their business. They know I'm not going to make a dent necessarily, you know, because I'm doing my own thing. I'm not trying to do their thing. So I think that there's a big collaboration just in general in the Vegan community where I live. [00:29:47] And then, you know, I have been fortunate to be approached, to be part of some of, you know, opening of Vegan restaurants and whatnot, to be able to even have the opportunity to, you know, lay the groundwork for some of the places around here, even as just a subject matter expert, whatever the case may be, whatever the role may be, has been really great. And there are a lot of Vegan small business owners outside the restaurant that are product owners around here as well that I'm hoping, you know, we've already made connections, but I'm hoping that we can make much deeper connections. Right now. Social media is everywhere. It's everything. Live. Live collaboration's kind of hard right now because of Hovig, you know, so you just think outside the box. And I just think that as far as in just a step back to apologize. But with branding as well, we have a lot. We were having the veg fests around here. We have several per year. I don't know how that's gonna go, but just the brand collaboration in the community seems very cohesive and noncompetitive. And I maybe that's naive of me to think, but it just. And in the future, I'm sure it will become more competitive. But I think the collaboration's I like to take part in are those who bring transparency to their company, their brand, their their food, their product. And just making sure that their their future forward thinking model is, you know, all about sustainability and still aligns with my fundamental beliefs. Yeah, absolutely. [00:31:44] And I think so, too. And kind of to that end, I want to move into one of our rapid fire questions is kind of in that arena. [00:31:50] And we have a lot of people right in asking where do you, as you know, in your food and culinary expertize, do you have a hit on? Do you have a feel for where Vegan food or plant based food in the industry is headed? If you could toss a prediction out for the next five years, what do you see growing in track or any trends? [00:32:10] Well, the financial predictions are in the billions. And I, I personally every say here's a great indicator that when you when you go to your store, go to the Vegan section and I'm talking in your produce section and I'm talking over the course of, say, three months, six months. Anybody can do this. Look at the brand expansion in those categories. That's that's a great way to see how that trend is going. The trend is going up. I talked to everybody in it. Let me put it this way. The people that I talked to in the industry, I've yet to meet somebody who says, gosh, I wish I would have picked printing or I wish I would have gone in to accounting. I mean. [00:33:04] Pretty much it's not only is it going to be in, it is consistently a profitable business. I saw my business launch immediately at the beginning of this year and covered hit and I was going through my launch during Koven and I saw great demand. So I just foresee. The Vegan movement is no longer going to be a movement. It's going to become a lifestyle for more people than not, especially when we're going through times like like now with Cobh. It it's a it's a great example. And, you know, again, I'm not a medical professional, but sadly, through a lot of these cases that that I've been reading and researching and the underlying conditions, so many are preventable. And so that saddens me. I mean, I get so sad because I know that if folks would just do their own research and be open minded and, you know, bite the bullet and make hard lifestyle changes, you know, it might take three years like me, but you will you will feel the benefits of it. But yeah. So I think I when when Burger King is offering impossible burgers and KFC is offering getting ready to be on offer beyond meat nuggets. I think the trend is definitely going in the right direction. [00:34:27] Yeah, absolutely. And that's funny you say that it leads address into the direct next question with Rapid Fire, which is what do you think about the main offenders in the meat industry and the propagators of kind of everything that's been wrong with, you know, not just the animal rights issues, but also the environmental impact that these places like Burger King and KFC and McDonalds, if it ever joins, which it doesn't really need to, because they have like 40 percent soy products and half of their meat products anyway, they've partly joined. But what do you think about the different kind of soy you think? What do you think about? Do you do you welcome the change? Because any change towards, you know, this sustainable, healthy vegan lifestyle is good? Or do you think that it's tragic that they're kind of benefiting yet once again? Or was it just destined to be do you have, like, a takeaway on that? [00:35:25] I do it's a hard question because, you know, I think the easy answer for vegans or is, you know. Well, if we can Kimber anybody, it's it's a step in the right direction. And I don't necessarily have that belief because I'm not into GMO, like I'm not into genetically modified ingredients, which is why I tried to personally stem my my processed foods. And I'm definitely one of those folks who's who tries to live more on the organic side of of the lifestyle. If, if and when possible. So, you know, holistically, I don't like, you know, the large scale models because it is propagating the same systems more or less, you know. So sometimes it can be within the system, the processes that need to be fixed. For instance, here's an example is we mentioned C.M.A soy. So, you know, subsidizing for soy. Our governments subsidize for, you know, GMO tons of, you know, soy. So why are we supplementing those folks when we could. Across the board, change diets by supplementing and subsidizing organic farmers? You know, why are we right. Supplement. It's almost like we're we're focused on the wrong things. And of course, this is just me looking in. But I think that. It's it is they are profiting off of Vegan for sure. And I mean, that's that's a great case in point, because, you know what? If it goes back to your last question, if the trend wasn't growing, they wouldn't want to have a footprint in the market. So I think that we definitely need laws change within the system itself. And this this goes I mean, I could talk all day about our food system that goes into the school systems and our hospitals and, oh, my gosh, don't get me started. So, yeah, I am definitely I keep a very conscious mind, especially with the brands I work with and for about that exact thing. So no where I'm glad burgling has the impossible burger for people. I don't eat it. Right. James, your question. [00:37:56] Yeah, I think it kind of does. [00:37:57] And I it's it's quite similar to my own narrative, which is, you know, I interviewed Ingrid Newkirk, founder of PETA, not too long ago. And I believe while I didn't ask her that exact question, she would say, you know, when support like any anything to get away from the abuse and suffering of animals and and to promote a healthier future. But that being said, I don't think she's running out to try one anytime soon. Right. You, myself as well. My final question for today is get a lot of people who want to know your personal take away. So your elevator pitch, your top three. You know, if you were sitting down with someone who was open, not angry, which there is a huge difference, but I heard you were Vegan and you were writing up to the 20th floor in an elevator and said, what are like the top three reasons as to why do you have kind of things that you find yourself prattling off as to kind of give people as this gateway moment? [00:38:53] Yeah, only if they ask. And I say that because I have already learned that you can't sell things to people who aren't listening or who aren't open to that. So once they ask and I don't have elevator speech and I probably should because I just ride alone all the time. But what I do is I will just tell them my personal story and I tell them about basically I'll just, you know, plants. There's no food out there today that you cannot basically enjoy that wasn't made from plants. And I say that because I've tried it. So, for instance, if I wanted to become vegan 20 years ago, it's not the Vegan as veganism it is today. So I would say that before you poo poo the whole idea, let me cook you a meal and then we can talk about whether it was vegan and whether it was cruelty free and whether it save the planet or not. [00:40:00] Nice. That's a good pitch. You don't need an elevator pitch. That's it. I don't know. [00:40:05] I don't. I can't. Do I? You know, you're supposed to have that. That three 30 second pitch. I'm a rambler. [00:40:14] No, you don't need one. You're fine. And you're willing to have someone to dinner, you know, and to put in the legwork so you don't need an elevator pitch just right. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for speaking with me today. I appreciate your time. I know you're busy and I really appreciate your candor and all of your information. [00:40:30] Well, this was a great collaboration. This is where it's at. So I appreciate. I appreciate your time as well. This is great. Thank you so much. [00:40:39] You bet. For everyone listening, we've been speaking with Jennifer Markell. She's a chef, blogger, founder, owner and operator of Vegan at Real Personal Shefford Services. You can find out more on her Web site. W w w dot Vegan at real dot com. Thank you for giving us your time today. [00:40:56] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and well and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am talking with Laura Khalil. Laura is a speaker, teacher and host of the Top 100 Apple Podcast, Brave by Design, focused on helping women achieve incredible success in their careers and lives. She is a master storyteller, consulting with clients such as Twitter, GE, and Intel on how to use storytelling to improve the lives of their customers. Laura’s training unlocks the code to becoming magnetic to help ambitious women learn how to rise, lead with empathy, and live abundantly.   Key points addressed were   Laura’s business and podcast both called “Brave by Design” and how she has used the core tenants of her public speaking and coaching advice platforms to influence her podcast narrative  We also discussed Laura’s expertise in Podcast hosting and how she leveraged her skills based out of her former career in content marketing to become one of the top 100 Apple Podcasts on the market. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

Today I am speaking with Kay Dorelus. Kay is the creator and breakthrough influencer behind Good Girl Gone OMAD, a popular podcast, newsletter and exclusive private group. She is an intermittent lifestyle inspiration for women, known for leading challenges for hundreds of women nationally and internationally. She has overcome her own personal battles with Crohn's Disease, Asthma and Glaucoma and has set out to inspire the everyday woman to be the master of her own health and happiness through intermittent fasting and other wellness practices.   Key points addressed were   Kay's podcast that is directly informed from her working health and fasting coaching that she does, both aptly named Good Girl Gone OMAD We also unpack a plethora of myths as well as helpful techniques and resources Kay arms her fasting communities with in all of her endeavours   This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts

Today I am talking with Janani Kumar. Janani is a plant-based recipe developer and lifestyle coach at The Vegetarian Carnivore. Her mission is to inspire people to transition to a lifestyle that is compassionate towards all animals, the environment, and their own health. She emphasizes creating comfort food recipes, many of which are vegan recreations of traditionally non-vegan comfort foods. Janani enjoys nerding out over nutrition facts and binge watching puppy videos in her spare time. Key points addressed were  Janani’s efforts of showing people how to veganize their favorite non- vegan meals and comfort foods to show everyone how they can lessen their carbon footprint and contribute to a healthier lifestyle whether or not they are vegan themselves This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with plant based recipe developer and blogger Janani Kumar Key Points Addressed where Janani efforts of showing people how to Vegan ize their favorite non Vegan meals and comfort foods in order to show everyone how they can lessen their carbon footprint and contribute to a healthier lifestyle, whether or not they are Vegan themselves. Stay tuned for my wonderful chat with Janani Kumar. [00:00:31] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Acom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:29] Come back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am so excited to be sitting down with Janani Kumar. She is a plant based recipe developer and blogger. You can find out more on both of her Web sites. My veggie hacks, dot com, as well as my plant mood dot com. Welcome, Jenny. [00:01:47] Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. [00:01:50] Absolutely. And for those of you listening, I will proffer a quick roadmap of the inquiry for today's podcast, and then I will read a bio on Janani before we get started. So everyone has a good basis of who we are talking to today. The roadmap will begin with looking at Janani's education, professional and experience, as well as her personal story with Vegan Vegan life. All of those things will ask her then to unpack her blog. My veggie hacks ask her to look at terms as a Vegan that we all use, but I think are individually defined differently. And we'll also look at my plant dot com and what the work that she's doing there. And then we'll look at some of the particulars about recipe curation, how she decides what goes onto each of those sites. And we'll unpack the course that she offers on my plant, me dot com and other things like that. And then we'll get into we'll wrap everything up with rapid fire questions. These are based on questions that you, our audience has written in asking that we ask some of the experts in the field and the guests that we are bringing on regarding Vegan life and your inquiries within that, as promised, a quick bio on Janani before I start peppering her with questions. Janani is a plant based recipe developer and lifestyle coach at the vegetarian Carnivore. Her mission is to inspire people to transition to a lifestyle that is a compassionate towards all animals, the environment and their own health. She emphasizes creating comfort food recipes, many of which are Vegan recreations of traditionally nonbanking comfort foods. Genitally enjoys nursing out over nutrition facts and binge watching puppy videos in her spare time. You and me both generally. [00:03:35] It's nothing short of mandatory for my wellness and health. That's hysterical. [00:03:41] So before we kind of unpack your your two different sites and the endeavors and the work that you do within that, I'm hoping you can draw out a quick educational and professional background and experience it as well as your personal story as it kind of interrelates. I know that you draw this out really well on my veggie hack's dot com. You've got a great bio. Can you kind of enumerate on it for everyone listening today? [00:04:04] Yes. So I was actually praised vegetarian from birth. I was born into a vegetarian household. Traditional, indeed, a vegetarian. And I really never questioned it. It was kind of just a given that I would say no to the hot dogs at school or the burgers at recess. And I never really questioned it. And and it really wasn't until I got to college and I was studying. I studied engineering. I have an engineering background. And as I was doing research into engineering and now understanding, well, why does this happen? Well, why does that happen? And I was really getting stuck down into, like, really, really the basics. I started to apply that in to my into my personal life, into my food choices. And I really started to become more interested in finding out where my food came from and really the supply chain, if you will. For it to, you know, get into the grocery store and play. And that was really where I learned that the diet in this country was really not all as compassionate as I could be because I learned about the dairy industry and I learned about the egg industry. And that was something that was incredibly difficult for me to stomach because I was a cheese addict, like I would be eating cheese every single day. And I, I really I didn't know the impact of that of the dairy industry. And so the college was really the dividing point for me, because college was where I had a lot of friends, you know, go from being a vegetarian to seeing, oh, well, I'm a I'm away from family, so I'm going to start not being vegetarian. Or I saw people going the other way saying, OK, well, this is my chance to actually make a change to my life that I might have not been able to make when I was living with my parents. And so for me, I went the other way and I said, I am going to start, you know, eating more plant based food and I'm going to start really understanding, you know, my impact and, you know, understand the impact that my choices are making on the world and the welfare of animals and my own health. And actually, when I started cutting out dairy and eggs, honestly, I started feeling so much better. I like my bloat, went away and I started having so much more energy. And and that was something that I was not expecting because something that the media keeps pushing on us is that, you know, you need eggs, you need dairy for it to be a strong person and to have strong bones and and all this stuff. So I was I was getting all these like I was getting all these results that were so contradictory to. What we are. We have been taught. And and so that just made me go deeper down. That's when I started vegetarian Carnivore. It started out as a vegetarian blog. And and since then, I have had a slow transition to to veganism where I've been cutting out dairy, cutting out dairy, cutting out dairy. Until one day I was, you know, I'd need any dairy at all. And so that that was probably the biggest. The biggest thing that I've done in my life is to understand that this transition is. It's not what you see on social media that you have to do it all in one day or that you have to do it. You know, in a very certain way. And you can take it at your own step. And that and that's really what I. And that's really what I did. I'm very glad that I did it. And so because of my engineering background, everything that I read and I believe and that I that I teach and that I share with my audience has to be rooted in in data. I do not believe in supporting. I do not believe in presenting any kind of claim without winning like a random eye, some piece of scientific peer reviewed journal that kind of backs it up because there is so much garbage on the Internet and it's so easy to become a statistic like that. So, yeah, that's a little bit about my thought process and how I think about it and how I think about my journey into where I am today. [00:08:39] It's interesting because when I hit, you know, my veggie hack Starcom, I think that there is sometimes a disconnect between generations and there at least when I started out, you know, veganism, it felt like you needed to be a chef. The advent of the industry itself in the Vegan culture and plant based foods in general, but also Vegan foods and things like that are starting to really take over by storm over the past five years. But also the voice of it, you know, it was this very esoteric industry. And if you didn't come from a culinary place and you didn't know it like Gaga was, you were just up a creek. And now, especially with what your blog and things like that really exemplify for me is it's this voice of the young, you know, of the young Vegan, your mac and cheese recipes. You incorporate, you know, store bought cheeses, you know, in it. It's not making your own from scratch. And I think that that kind of brings in this younger, maybe college based individual who is, you know, entertaining the vegan lifestyle. And does it want to be immediately taught that, you know, you can make a cheese out of coconut oil, but rather just that there's one out there that you can make great vak, mac and cheese substitute or, you know, all of those things that we all kind of care about in addition to going to restaurants that serve those things, you know, Vegan nature as well. So I think you do a really well at kind of exemplifying this younger voice and this next generation of vegans coming up. And I love that. I'm wondering before we get into unpacking each my veggie hacks as well as my plant, Mediacom, if you can kind of suss out a couple of terms for us. I'd like to know how you define Vegan as well as plant based. And what if they are different or similar, how they connect to one another? [00:10:26] Sure. And that's a great question. So I think the the general consensus among the the community, the general community is something that I don't agree with. They kind of lump Vegan and plant based as the same thing. And and I don't necessarily agree with that because for me, veganism is more of a lifestyle where it doesn't just extend to your food choices. It extends to cruelty free health care, care or makeup or, you know, choosing ethically sourced clothing. And and so to me, that's what veganism is. But but plant based is where you focus more on your food choices and where you focus on more whole foods in in a plant based diet. So that's not exclusively only only plants, but for the majority part, it is. And and so I would definitely put myself in the category as both Vegan and plant based, because there is such a term as a as a junk food vegan. And and as much as I love you and junk food, I, I love it. Those Magnum Vegan ice cream bars are you know, they're my kryptonite. But I, I do really emphasize that the importance of eating, you know, Whole Foods plant based for optimal diet because, you know, you you can't just sit around and eat, I don't know, chips all day, even though they're Vegan and expect to achieve good health. [00:12:00] Yeah, absolutely. All right. And then how do you define Whole Foods? That's another term that you dropped. What what do you mean when you say that? [00:12:11] When I say Whole Foods, I mean fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, grains. I eat a lot of fero, Bulger, brown rice, Qin Y. And I think those are such nutrition powerhouses that we don't necessarily see. Really, the only grain that I think in Western culture we have heard of is rice, brown, rice and now wa. But the idea of like amaranth and buckwheat and millet is still making its way to making its way up. [00:12:51] Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. OK. Let's get into some of your sights. [00:12:55] I first want to start with my veggie hack's dot com. When when was it launched and what is the main goal of that site? [00:13:05] So I launched my veggie tax Starcom when I was a senior in college, so that was in 2000 and a teen 2018 and I it was with the sole purpose of showing people that you could have a really delicious and nutritious meatless meals. The name the vegetarian Carnivore. You know, it's kind of a it's kind of a shocking Jux juxtaposition that that really came from like a defiance. I was just I had just had it with people telling me that I couldn't eat good food, that I was missing out somehow and I just wasn't having it. I didn't want to hear that. And so when they said, I can't have chicken, I can't have Bolognese, I can't have all this stuff. I just decided that there had to be a way to. To do it without hurting the animal, to do it without hurting our bodies and to do it without, you know, emitting tons of methane into the atmosphere. So I realized that there had to be a way so that I really started the vegetarian carnivore with that intention. [00:14:24] And you still have the Instagram account. You still have on Instagram. It's the vegetarian carnivore. Yes. [00:14:31] OK. For everyone listening, there's that kind of connection there. There's a few different labels were throwing around. I want to read from your Web site something that kind of reached my team. [00:14:41] And I said one of my goals here is to create a platform for people to read and experiment with my recipes in a way that gives them the opportunity to have more than one measly option on a restaurant menu. I want to encourage people to incorporate more vegetarian meals into their diet to give it a chance. I want us to leave a smaller carbon footprint on this planet and move toward a more sustainable future. And I think it's interesting because, you know, a lot of vegans and rightfully so to their own degree, just you know, they do not communicate with non vegan environments. They want to push people into veganism, whole vegans. But you have this kind of Meatless Monday approach in this in this rhetoric right here of years where you're like, just give it a shot, start incorporating some of these things into your diet. And because you have a reach into the younger audience, I think it is interesting saying, you know, look at some of these meatless alternatives like what you were saying before. Have a look. It doesn't always have to be this. And I do think a lot of people resonate. People with any dietary restrictions that, you know, there might be something on the menu for you. But it's one. And you'd better like whatever it is they made Vegan because there's not. Oh, yeah. You know, and I like your site for that reason. My veggie hack's does do this example of saying it's like a plethora of things like you were just saying it's everything from comfort food to, you know, these these other aspects. People think of Vegan if they're not the intent to think of salad or pasta, and that's it. And I think you do a really good job of kind of showing people that I want to switch now to my plant mooed dot com. What do you do with that? And can you tell us a little bit about the course? [00:16:19] Yes. So my plant moved dot com is a Web site, you know, predominantly for hosting my course, which I launched actually this last week. My course is a plant based transition course. It is where I teach about. Well, I guess I'll tell you where it came from. First, it was born out of this. This gap in the industry that I saw about, you know, are you Vegan or are you not? Are you. It's like, are you destroyed? Are you there? And I realized that that is the single most daunting thing for someone who is who is looking for a change. But it's like you can't ask someone to, you know, just uproot their everything that they have grown up with all at once. And that is a very scary thing. You know, I'll speak for myself from experience. And so, you know, I grew up in a traditional Indian household. So even though I didn't eat meat, we ate a lot of dairy. So that goes for milk and butter and key and and cheese and and just all of our stuff is just absolutely slathered with butter and milk and and yogurt. How could I forget that? That was literally my kryptonite. Yogurt. Yogurt. Rice was like a staple South Indian comfort food. It's like our chicken soup for the soul. And and so for me, when I decided to go vegan, I realized that I couldn't I couldn't say, OK, today I eat yogurt tomorrow. I don't. I realized I had to create a sustainable transition, but there was no there was no support community for that. There was no the you know, people on the Internet, they are so polarized. You're either, you know, a vegan who is totally, like going to die of protein deficiency or you are a hardcore carnivore that. That, you know, doesn't believe in eating plants. You know, it's so there was no nice middle ground. And I really wanted to help people understand that there is a middle ground and that every every. Choice that you make should be a deliberate choice. And it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. I think that is what really resonates with my own audience, is that it's not an all or nothing thing. You don't have to do that. And so I decided to create this course as a as an introduction to plant based nutrition and as a way to help people tramp's transition into eating more plants, whether meet them to achieve whatever goals that they want to achieve, whether they want to become Vegan, or whether they just want to, you know, improve their life and lessen their impact on this world by eating more plants. So that is what this course is intended to do. It's intended on focusing on on basics of plant based nutrition, as well as my tips for eating outside. So you don't just have that one lame option on the menu as well as like some mindset shifts. [00:19:33] A lot of people say, well, I tried going vegan and I, I just I fell off the bandwagon and now I'm just eating like 10 steaks a day, you know? And it's kind of like, you know, it's it's it's not a one or the other thing. You can fall off the bandwagon. It happens. We we're all just human. Right. But what's more important is to recognize that it's OK and to get on track again. [00:19:57] Yeah, absolutely, I agree. How long is each course? How is it set up? What are the particulars? How would someone get on to learn more about it? [00:20:06] Yeah, so there's one course currently. I just I just launched it and it is it's an hour and a half long and you can sign up through my website. My plant, MEDCOM. And there are some really cool bonus resources that I've included as well. I've included my personal grocery shopping list so that I don't forget anything at the grocery store. It really sucks to go to the grocery store with no less. They come back and realize that I left out the maple sirup or oh, I left out like the literally the main ingredient and you don't have something left. So I've included that. And I've also included my favorite and Vegan junk food, treat, cheat. And I don't think it's really important to do that because a lot of people think of veganism as restrictive and Vegan still eat burgers. You can still eat ice cream. Vegan still eat. You know, we still eat a lot of this stuff. And I think that that a treat day shouldn't compromise on on ethics. It shouldn't compromise on taste. [00:21:13] And so that's and that's the reason that I've included a vegan cheat sheet, is that the same thing is your plant based alternative checklist or is that completely different? [00:21:23] My plant based alternative checklist. Is oh, gosh, I can't remember how I how I named them right now. Windrush looks like it would be like a dairy alternative. [00:21:34] Like you mentioned, a lot of cooking with, like, dih and different kinds of cheeses that melt. I have these great different flavors and things and I. Right. It would be an introduction into that. And along that same line, I kind of wonder, do you feel like there will be a maturation with your as you start to garner more of a community and an audience than you already have? [00:21:55] Do you think that you'll start getting into, you know, vegans who want more than just this store bought substitute? You know, there's a there's a huge line of vegans, but a lot of those cheeses, as magnificent as they taste and don't get me started on like this milk howdah and stuff like that that they've really nailed, but that don't want to deal with a lot of the ingredients that are in. There are some of the vegetable oils that people don't sign off on. You know, there's a huge body of work I won't get into it about, you know, the difference between canola versus olive oil for one's body. And I'm wondering if you will ever think that you'll take on the. Or endeavored to kind of unpack from a culinary standpoint how to make your own cheese or how to get this or get that, or do you think you'll kind of just stay with this shopping substitution, that type of it, as a Slaínte with it? [00:22:44] So that's a great question. And so the primary reason that I use store bought cheeses in my recipes is to show people that it's not all that different from what they're already doing. You know? So if you go to the grocery store and you buy dairy cheddar, there is a there is a way that you can go to the store and buy plant based cheddar. So it's that comes out of a out of a desire on my part to demonstrate to people that it doesn't have to be this this complicated, long, winding method to getting your your mac and cheese. You can get your mac and cheese. And that's not a problem. But I have experimented to a really nice extent, too, with Viðga and cashew cheeses and my my Vegan spinach artichoke dip, which is on my website, actually does use cashew cheese that I made from scratch at home. And and I think that. I think that in veganism should be accessible to people who there are some vegans that I know who. Who who've never set foot in the kitchen, you know, they don't like cooking. They don't care about cooking and minimum work is the best for them. But for someone like me who you know, I thrive in the kitchen. I love being in the kitchen. And I just, you know, with the Gaga and the, you know, the the cashews and all that, all that good stuff. And so, yes, there is definitely a lot of scope for developing out more of the artisanal cheeses, if you will, and the artisanal wool substitutes. [00:24:40] And to that end, how do you cure it? Which recipes you go up with? Is it kind of self led and self designed or do you take a note from your Facebook groups or people who are looking for more translations? How do you decide which recipes you're going to throw up and which recipes? [00:24:55] You're not both, actually. So I always love getting feedback from from my from my followers, my viewers. [00:25:05] And and to that extent, I love creating comfort food and like we've mentioned before, but when I get when I get the recipe requests for can you recreate this as a comfort food for me, that that really that really hits a really special place for me. And then I will pretty much go out of my way to to to make it, because I believe that everyone should be. It's the it kind of goes back to the to the curd rice example, the yogurt rice that I was talking about earlier. For me, that was literally the the biggest achievement of my life when I was able to make that Vegan. And and that was really the the push off point for me to say I am. I'm able to fully not eat any animal products now. Yeah. So, yes, to vote for that. And to that end. So I do like getting examples from from people. And also, I'm sorry that there might be a little lag in the connection. [00:26:15] Yeah, no, it's great. I was I was just pointing out that you kind of enumerate you fully elaborate in your on your blog about that yogurt, you know, revolution and kind of the shout out to anyone, you know, of Southeast's like the Indian descent of like, you know, it's like the yogurt's here, which is true. Every culture has their, like, break of like, you know, I think the impossible burger in the States, you know, if Americans are attached to burgers, which my America isn't, but let's just say it is, you know, the impossible burger and things that we're really creating this like you cannot differentiate the moments and you really experience still that same culture. It really broke that barrier for people, which it sounds like your yogurt did for you. So I love and wondering how we're into our rapid fire questions moment now because we're kind of peeling out of time here. Janani And I'm going to ask you just a quick few questions, and this is for everyone who's listening. This is a segment that we kind of added in because we have so many people writing in and we love our audience and we want to honor you and your inquiry's with everything. So those of you that wrote in asked us to kind of posture questions to plant based recipe developers and bloggers. Here we go. Where do you see the vegan food scene in the USA headed in the next three years or California in particular? [00:27:38] I am actually very, very positive about the. You can see an expansion, I follow a lot of I follow a lot of I follow veg news and I follow live kindly and I follow a lot of these Vegan news outlets on social media. It seems like every other day they're coming out with a new pop up or a new advent or a new or a new invention. And also, I think that if if Corona virus has done nothing else, it has really alerted people to the to the dangers and to not only the dangers of eating animal products, but also to the benefits of shifting to plant based. And because of this, Vegan sales have skyrocketed across the world. And and I feel very, very positive about it. [00:28:25] Nice. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. What are the top three things you wish people just starting off cooking Vegan recipes would know? [00:28:35] OK. Right. I think the most important thing to do is to incorporate as much color as you can into your diet. Right. So if you go to the farmer's market, you go to the grocery store, try to find something in every color, red bell, pepper, beetroot, broccoli, kale, something and every something and every color. And then just try to saute it together, try to try to experiment with it. And I mean, really, what's the worst that could happen? It it turns out botched. But but really, that's that's the most important thing. I think my and my thing. The second most important thing would be to. Don't be so hard on yourself. Right. So don't be so hard on yourself. Even if you're trying if you're cutting out meat from one recipe but really, really want to use butter. Fine. Go ahead and use the butter. It's like I said, it's not an all or nothing thing. It is about taking the small steps. And the third most important thing would be find some inspiration. Definitely. Think back on the recipes that you like. Think back on what you what made you feel happy and warm and fuzzy on the inside when you were little and. An experiment. I mean, there's there's mushrooms for me. You can make chicken tenders out of oyster mushrooms, you can use soy crumbles as a beef substitute. You can use Sainte-Anne as a chicken substitute. And oh, and while some of these are getting into the. Into a little bit more advanced, I would say style definitely. Look, to get enough calories, getting enough calories is so important. And people who are trying to restrict themselves will always feel hungry on a vegan diet or even an omnivorous diet. So get enough calories. [00:30:29] Nice. Yeah. All right. And the final one is, what are your go tos forgetting Vegan inspiration and knowledge for cooking. [00:30:39] Vegan inspiration and knowledge for cooking. Google, Google, Google, Google. Yeah. So I'll tell you something I'm going through right now. Actually, I'm not much of a baker. I'm I'm just just venturing out into baking. And so while I'm pretty well versed in the cooking world, the baking world is kind of like crazy. So when I when I discovered applesauce as an egg substitute, that was kind of like a like an aha moment. Like, I can make cookies now, you know, so it it's not always what you think. And and so some of the my other go to inspirations are just looking at cooking videos. It doesn't even have to be Vegan cooking videos. I look at a lot of cooking videos and then I think of stuff that I can substitute instead of the meat. So maybe beans instead of beef or or lentils or or whole grains or something. But it doesn't have to be even like a Vegan video system. So don't limit yourself by only looking at Vegan stuff. Look at everything and then see where you can substitute something out. Just put a different source of protein, put a different source of put nutritional yeast instead of parmesan. [00:31:58] Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love to make some nutritional yeast with hem parts. [00:32:04] It's going to feel like palmy oceanic moment to it as well. And also going on off your tandem, the just a quick tent, like a side note, is cheap seeds and tablespoon of water. Ground seeds is a great substitute for an egg. Yes. Which I love. And I love applesauce. I love doing both of those because the applesauce cuts out half the sugar. Right. [00:32:27] Getting healthy. Yes. Absolutely. Those things really do as the chief seeds add like the omega 3s too. And they're filling. They're filling like I put them into cookies actually last week. And I had one cookie and I was like, well, I don't feel like having a second cookie. So that kind of cut down that craving. [00:32:46] Yeah. I won't make any baked goods without throwing in flax. And she said I won't just because it's such an easy way to deliver your omega 3s and they are so righteous for you and the studies being done on them, vegans and non vegans alike is just you know, it's it's they're tantamount to not having them in one's diet. And we are out of time. And and I want to say thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate like all of that. You're so expansive. You know, you have so many different areas you go into. And I really do appreciate you kind of like drawing out each point of what you're doing. Hopefully we can bring you back around after another year or so and find out where all of your endeavors with, you know, my plant mood and maybe other courses that you have moving forward have kind of ended up. [00:33:33] I would love that. Yeah, it's been great to be here. [00:33:36] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Janani Kumar. She's a plant based recipe developer and blogger. You can find out more on both her Web sites, my veggie hack's dot com, as well as my plant mooed dot com. And until we speak again next time, thank you so much for giving us your time. [00:33:53] And remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am chatting with Lauren Smith. Lauren is a passionate event planner, connection creating expert, and lover of all thing’s events + travel.  Lauren helps busy entrepreneurs create in person connection with their online community so they can strengthen their relationships, provide incredible value and turn their community into raving fans. With over 10 years of event planning experience working with Canada’s largest financial institutions, Lauren brings countless unique and innovative ideas, and an impressive tool-box of skills to the table for her clients, spanning from an unmatched ability to pivot on the spot, to killer negotiation skills and the creative ability to think outside the box.   Key points addressed were   The particulars of the event planning industry and how her company uniquely addresses the requirements in the industries she conducts events with We also examined some stereotypes of the event planning’s industries’s past and how Lauren endeavors to redefine some of these attributes in the future   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

Today I am chatting with Yvonne O’ Halloran. Yvonne is an accredited practising dietitian who has a passion for plant-based nutrition. She completed her studies in Griffith University on the Gold Coast, Australia where she graduated with a bachelor’s degree in public health in 2010, followed by a master’s in nutrition & dietetics in 2012.  Having gained experience as a private practice dietitian for her first years as a new graduate dietitian, she then started up an online business in 2014. In 2016 she went vegan for both health and ethical reasons and has since spent her time learning about plant-based nutrition by researching the literature, attending plant-based conferences and completing the plant-based nutrition course through e-Cornell university. Yvonne co-founded Living Vegan with her husband that launched early 2019, which is a news and education platform aimed to help people navigate a healthy vegan lifestyle. She is a content writer for various plant-based companies and writes columns on a monthly basis for Vegan Life UK magazine. She is currently working on her first book that will be a sort of vegan starter kit featuring nutrition and psychology-based information which she hopes to complete by early 2021.   Yvonne is a mother to 3 healthy, thriving vegan children and currently lives on the Gold Coast, Australia, but she grew up in Ireland. Check out her website www.livingvegan.com Key points addressed were  Essential principle of Yvonne’s work with clients regarding acquiring a vegan dietWe also discussed the core basis of both of Yvonne’s books tentatively publishing in Early 2021 and 2022 the first of which is what I surmised to be something of a vegan Bible covering information on every imaginable aspect of the vegan diet and health and the latter of which will address pre-prenatal and pre natal health with a vegan diet This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with dietician and upcoming author Yvonne O'Halloran. Key points addressed were essential principles of Ivana's work with clients regarding acquiring a vegan diet. We also discussed the core basis of both of Enns books tentative in publishing in early 2021 and 2022. The first of which I surmised to be something of a Vegan Bible covering information on every imaginable aspect of the Vegan diet and health, and the latter of which will address prenatal and pre prenatal health with a vegan diet. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Yvonne O'Halloran on a quick technical note. We suffered some audio disturbance, which presents as a subtle pounding noise in the background. But because the issue does abate through most of the interview, our team made the decision to go up with this version rather than delay and rerecord. We appreciate your understanding and know that the interview with Yvonne will be worth putting up with a little static. [00:01:00] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen. Com where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. [00:01:59] And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Yvonne O'Halloran. She's a dietician and her website is w w w dot living Vegan dot com. Welcome, Yvonne. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of think you guys are doing on living Vegan as well as some of your other endeavors. [00:02:17] I know you contribute to weather Vegan outlets, and I'm excited to unpack that with our audience today. For those of you that are on offer, a roadmap for today's podcast. As to other line of inquiry in which way we'll be headed. And then I'll also read a quick bio on Yvonne so that everybody has a very good purview of a little bit of her background. So the roadmap for today's podcasts will look at a Von's academic and professional life that brought her to launching Living Vegan with her partner, live living Vegan dot com. And we'll also look at her Vegan story as it's intertwined. Within that, we'll get into some of the logistics as to when it was launched, how it's curated, if they have sponsorship or funding, any affiliations that they're kind of attached to. We'll look at goals for the site and audience ship and who they're hoping to reach. And just look at unpacking some of those Vegan dialogs in between there. And then I'll turn to also asking her about some of her endeavors with them writing in contribution to different Vegan, things like that. And as I promised before, I start asking even a bunch of questions. A quick bio. Yvonne O'Halloran is an accredited practicing dietician who has a passion for plant based nutrition. She's completed her studies in Griffith University on the Gold Coast, US in Australia, where she graduated with Bachelors Degree in Public Health in 2010, followed by a Masters in Nutrition and Dietetics. In 2012. Having gained experience as a private practice dietician for her first years as a new graduate dietician, she then started up an online business in 2014. In 2016, she went Vegan for both health and ethical reasons and has since spent her time learning about a plant based nutrition by researching the literature, attending plant based conferences and completing the plant based nutrition course through Cornell University. Yvonne co-founded Living Vegan with her husband that launched early 2019, which is a news and education platform aimed to help people navigate a healthy Vegan lifestyle. She's a content writer for various plant based companies and writes columns on a monthly basis for Vegan Life UK magazine. She is currently working on her first book. That will be a sort of Vegan starter kit featuring nutrition and psychology based information, which she hopes to complete by early twenty twenty one. Yvonne is a mother to three healthy, thriving Vegan children and currently lives in the Gold Coast of Australia. But she grew up in Ireland. You can check out more, as I said on her website, w w w dot living Vegan dot com. So, Yvonne, before we start unpacking the site and all of your work within that, I also wanted to tell you I have a bunch of rapid fire questions at the end of this that we've reached out to people who subscribe to our podcast and emails and always ask them questions that they would like. Ask our guests. And as a dietitian, as a Vegan dietitian, we've got a slew of those for you. We'll do those at the very end of the podcast. But before we get to all of that, I'm hoping you can kind of we I just unpacked a great deal of your academic and professional life, but I'm hoping that you can kind of give your own personal narrative as to how you incorporated your academia into what you're doing now with living Vegan dot com. [00:05:26] Yes. So as I said, I graduated in 2012 for the master's in Nutrition Dietetics. And Michael was always defined my name. [00:05:35] I didn't know at the time that I was going to be plumpness nutrition. But I was waiting to see what what I would find. But in 2016, I started to look into the ethical side of what I was eating. And I didn't like what I saw. And it was quite confronting, actually. I think for anybody who looks is actually still fits. It's it's I call it like an awakening for me. It was shocking and that's horrifying. And obviously, when I when I look at the side of it, for me as a dietician, it was very important for me to look at the health side of it. Is this healthy? Is this is this good for me? Is this good for my clients? So I started going down a rabbit hole and I started to speak to campus doctors and research company sectors, other companies, dieticians all over the world. And yeah, I learned a lot. And because in university, you don't really talk much about the nutrition that we basically just touched on it in one class. I think they mentioned veganism and what it was that it was highly restrictive diets and that kind of thing. So I didn't think too much about it back at that time. But I always kind of questioned the dairy industry. I never read he was a huge fan of this and never seemed to sit right with me even when I had to recommend dairy to my clients. I didn't feel right about it, but it was what I was told is unique. So I thought, well, I mean, if this is what I was taught, this is what I'm supposed to do. So, yeah. So I started looking into the dairy industry and things like that, and it was shocking. And the evidence based research that's behind us about the dangers of dairy and how how it's so unhealthy for us. So it's highly inflammatory and it's got dioxins and hormones and estrogens and IGF one, which are all things that we shouldn't be having in their bodies. It's it's far you know, it's far different matter. Like, so. And I also noticed in in my work that a lot of people actually favored cow's milk over, sometimes over, even breastfeeding, which is amazing. So it's just I think it's been so indoctrinated into Intel us for so long that it's actually considered completely normal. Yeah. So I start to dip into it more. And I went off dairy initially for a long time, and I also went off meat meat with something I never really liked. Even as a kid I would break open Arden's. So it was a very meat heavy lifestyle as. As children, like we'd have bacon, encourager, meat and veggies and potatoes. I was everyday and I never I never was a fan of eating these. I didn't even understand back then it was an animal. It just wasn't for me. We as time went on and I started learning more about nutrition, I and I started to see where I was going to go. I am I start looking to Taipei's dieticians and what they were doing to. I realized that there was a big mischer and then something that I was really passionate romance, very excited about. You're doing more. More with that side of things. [00:08:40] Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's it's I felt the trend coming more, at least for the United States on a lot of different level economically. A lot of different areas. Sustainability. The new generation Gen I, they're kind of being called right now with just almost this inherent knowledge of is it sustainable? Is it good for the earth? Yes, a bunch of different ways that people were coming at Vegan nutrition. But I definitely and then Kova just kind of at least in the States, it put the conversation and forefront. And then I'd like pinning up much to your line of work. People are really starting to ask themselves. I know so many adults that don't know that there's protein and vegetables, crazy amount of people and wonderful professors that don't know that there's protein and vegetables because it just hasn't been discussed and educated enough. You know, a lot of people on this podcast are doctors who are Vegan because MDA, United States, I'm one of the most hysterical things is that they don't take even one nutrition course or they're not required to to become. And I'm absolutely explained to me that, you know, doctors treat disease and ailments and internal workings. They were never meant to be these these people advising diet. It was not ascribed to their part of work. But for some reason, we all turned to them when we know when we need to prescribe things with diet. For me, I feel like you could not look at medicine without in unison of diet. You know, there's so many diseases that are abated or helped or cured or all of those things from allergies with changing diet that so many documentaries have come out about. So I really think that there's a great use to that. And I kind of wanted to start off by asking you. [00:10:24] Have you ever worked in Congress with an M.D. or like a medical doctor and throughout any of this time period, have you ever had conversations with them and kind of unarrest how much they do or don't know about a healthy diet? [00:10:42] Yeah, well, I have some friends who are doctors, and I've obviously worked in private practice, so I've been exposed to doctors for they really I mean, for the doctors I've spoken to, they really get Minimoog like education and nutrition. [00:10:54] It's very, very, very broad, very minimal. I think it's like four hours in the whole seven years of study to get something like that. So, yeah, it did. Definitely don't understand, like maybe general nutrition a little bit, but it's nutrition for most doctors is completely crazy to them if they just didn't understand it or the. [00:11:15] It's very restrictive and it's what they're just not educated in that area. And I think the doctors who are educating the area actually do really well. I mean, the likes of Dr. Michael Kofman, Dr. Grinton. You know, there's lots of doctors out there, especially in America. They do. They do really well because they've actually looked into the research and they know it's it's effective. You know, Doctor, as a student, he just did a lot of research on heart disease. And these are really well with his patients getting great results. I think the doctors who are more open minded to be with patients when they're looking to progress actressy. [00:11:46] Yeah. And it had generally have been heart disease. [00:11:50] I was going to say there's a kind of a gateway disease which has a horrible term that I just. But as a gateway disease to kind of open up the Vegan conversation. We've spoken with Dr. Joel Kahn over here who is, you know, one of America's premiere's ologists. And I'm a devout Vegan for 30 plus years. And he has such incredible I think that the success of reversing, you know, coronary issues, episodes and disease is one of the most powerful blood in the Vegan attributes, at least over here as well. So it's it's interesting to hear that there's a tandem over in Australia. I one out before we start unpacking living Vegan dot com, which is I love because it's the educational platform. I'm wondering if you can kind of describe I like it. You decide as you can kind of unpack for me. You've got Ireland and then you have Australia and the respective regions that you're from and that you've been to I personally great a longer history as well with Ireland. Dublin has some of the oldest Vegan restaurants of all of the European countries that I visit, which was shocking for me. [00:13:01] And they introduced me to better cheeses than we had in the States for just the United States did not get the memo that Vegan cheese amounts and it was the Greek. It's just, you know, she's out of it. But that aside, that tirades. But I'm wondering if you can kind of describe the latter day, the current day like us or vibe around Vegan. [00:13:31] Dietary consumption in Ireland and Australia right now. Are people open to it? Has it spiked over the past five years? What is your personal take on that? [00:13:42] Well, I have to say, I actually went Vegan while I was in Ireland, which is a bit crazy. [00:13:47] And we move back there for eight months, back in later, Towsend 16, and that's when they actually turned 18. It's definitely more accepted back there now. There definitely are more options like I know for a few more years. And there was actually Vegan options, which I was surprised about. I mean, it's quite ten years ago. [00:14:04] I don't know. I don't know what it had anything to eat back there. So it's definitely open Kofman more mainstream for sure in Australia. It's incredible. Like you could go to. There's so many Vegan restaurants where I am here, the locals, so many options, compas options. [00:14:20] So I feel Australia is definitely ahead. And, you know, comparing to Ireland border to both countries are doing really well. They're getting more becoming more open minded because I feel like the demand is there now. So the restaurants want to meet the demand for the. So there's not really any restaurants I went to in Arden's that didn't offer something Vegan. Now I have to say some places were pretty poor. What was offered water in Australia? It's really incredible. The Vegan auctions are here. Here. Amazing. Very easy to be Vegan in Australia, that's for sure. [00:14:55] Yeah. And eat out. I mean, they're all Vegan restaurants. We were talking off the air before eating, but I was explaining to you that I had just returned as the pandemic kind of set in. On the global scale from Sydney, Australia. And I was actually viewing Vegan restaurant owners there. And just it's an amazing scene. And there's so many people doesn't terrify people. You go to a non Vegan restaurant. I love Vietnamese food and fur and things of that nature. And and any of those communities, you go in and say, you know, it's I needed to be made Vegan or whatever. It's a very popular term. And I would as they always I mean, they're the first for a lot of health trends. And, you know, I learned about a great deal about Crossfade when that hit from the Aussies, even though it was in. And all those things they really embrace and get into it. And I love and then the YouTube about it. [00:15:43] They're prolific YouTube hits, which I have yet to pack. [00:15:48] I'm living Vegan with you now. I read that you launched it with your husband in 2000 and nineteen. So it's still in some it's in C to its target as it's and it's there for education. Can you kind of unpack what inspired you? What's the ethos of you and your husband to launch it and what the site endeavors to do? [00:16:12] For sure. So I am actually had a Web site prior to DEC called Page, which is gone now. That was before I went Vegan. [00:16:19] So I always knew I wanted to kind of work predominantly online because we travel quite a lot as well. So online, it seems to me. Then obviously once I would Feig and I wanted to change my Web site to be happy. So me, myself, my husband were very passionate about the Vegan movement. So we wanted to do something that would, you know, help help people to get there, to have a healthier lifestyle and to understand the education side of it, like basically a platform that had everything because there are platforms out there that are more use based kind of. [00:16:50] But I wanted to see how the educational component as well. So and that's how we came up with the BBC and we thought it was a bit of a dairy name because I think a lot of people shy away from the word Vegan like we kind of considered doing something like more campus, but then we decided, no, you know what this is? This is about veganism. Let's just let's just face this and and let's have our, you know, a good name that people under it, as soon as they see the name, they know exactly what it is. [00:17:16] So that's that's how we coined the term living big and that's how we came up with it. And so initially when it was launched into Taza 19, I had just had my first daughter. So I was pretty busy. So it was more news based initially because I was busy with my daughter and my sleepless nights. But as time went on, I got more involved. So now I'm and I'm very involved in and I'm trying to do more educational stuff to try and help people to learn. You know, it's not that hard to be Vegan. I find the first four months of being Vegan can be quite challenging for people because they're just generally even if they're highly motivated, they just do not know what to eat because we've been educated to eat, you know, certain food for breakfast, lunch and dinner for, you know, 20, 30 years. It's very hard to change. So it takes a lot of guidance and motivation and have I think once people get over to treat formants, don't they tend to be OK? You know, most people. So that's how we do it. We design the packages and them aiming towards that. Now, I'm actually going to update the packages this year. I'm going to offer more dietician focus packages, you know, like consultations and guidance over a longer period, six to twelve months and things like that. So the packages are going to be updated soon. But it was basically just to. I wanted to be there to help people, I find a lot of women who are pregnant. [00:18:44] It is specifically the go to the doctor to tell them their Vegan and the doctor scares the life and says, you know, you need to eat eggs and usually have meat for your baby. This and all these people are like, I don't know what to do. My doctor says, I need to eat this. [00:18:59] So I just felt like there was a huge pressure. People just need some help. They need some guidance in this lifestyle. [00:19:06] That's why I am going to write a book about which we can talk about it or read a book about Vegan pregnancy. [00:19:12] I'm excited to Vegan pregnancy. Yeah, it's in the book and all the information. We need a ton more Vegan dietitians out there because men are one thing that people are terrified of is their nutrition and they need an expert opinion assuring them you, Isaac, your steps. I mean, I fancy myself a wildly educated woman. And when I became I turned to the worst like junk food Vegan that there was this prenup frozen, preserved, but didn't even live like that before. But it was just this Hypercom, like, I've got something ready made in the fridge. And it's it's I think it was just that lack of having the expert advice. OK, I want to go back to asking you about that, the packages a little bit more because it feels like so for me, as I was saying about my own education and things of that nature and needing dietitians, it's a tenuous line. [00:20:15] You would have to dance because I feel like people are capable of getting P.H. and things, but not upfront, you know, and having this onslaught of information on diamonds and minerals, even if you have a great deal of that information, keeping it all straight in your index, when you're switching diets over, how do you navigate tenuous line between educating just enough for your clients to feel empowered but not too daunted with just too much information? [00:20:42] Know, I definitely think less is more. I think if you go too deep. People just get scared off, like because nutrition is so complex for most people. [00:20:54] Mostly people just want the basics. They just want to understand. You know, for example, how do I get my B twelve or, you know, what is vitamin D or you know, they just want basic stuff. They don't want you to dove too deep because for most people that's too much. So what I have to try to do is keep it very simple. I find, you know, as a dietician, you have to learn all the complex, deep stockman and then you have to really get back really simply to your comments. So that's basically what I do. So, you know, I do a lot of email consultations as well, which is actually very popular. People prefer people love to do e-mail concerns because they don't actually I don't know what is, but they don't actually speak to me. Exactly. They just email me to all the details and then they ask me all questions and I look to their meal plan or I look to what they eat and everything. And then I suggest what they should eat. And I send them a meal plan and then I give money, information I need. And a lot of it is just basic questions. Like the most common questions are where do I get my protein, which is a crazy person. You know, what is beach one? You know, am I going to get nutritional deficiencies or if I'm pregnant, you know, as my baby go to grow. Things like this, it's really, really basic stuff, you know, as a dietitian. But it's stuff of people need reassurance. [00:22:07] Absolutely. And it's empowering someone and, you know, give them those informations and be in the United States. I'll say that culturally, I'm speaking just for my own country. And particularly among women or women identified individuals that I encounter, there's a great deal of defense even around somebody who feels very confident about their way of life. You know, when you start to top it, there's it's deeply interwoven. It's very, very personal and food obvious and do so much more than, say, it's attached to our heritage, to our ideas of love and reward and all sorts of crazy things psychologically for you. I mean, these are things that you must have to consider. You know, when you're kind of encountering your clients and best how to serve them and things like that, it makes sense. [00:22:54] The email part of it, I'm like, oh, that sounds more not it sounds less judgmental, you know, to be able to write it out of you write it. I think there's a great deal of emotion that goes into food that you kind of have to unpack as well. When I got on your site and this is part is this actually plays into that concept as well. As you know, great big picture with Vegan dietitians and things like that. Like you have education, you know the aspect of that. Then you have implementations to your site, has recipes, news. And I'm wondering I love how I love the curation of the news that you have selected that you did for that site. How do you do that? [00:23:34] What's your curation process for how you kind of select which news you want to represent? I'm living. [00:23:40] It's hard because there's obviously so many stories every day could write 100 stories a day. So you really have to be specific, be specific and pick what you think is going to attract the audience and bring them in. [00:23:52] I suppose I find ethical stuff really brings in the audience stuff about animal welfare or, you know, stuff about somebody who went Vegan on the health results they got from that. Things like that. I find that people really are drawn to. So I think what I do is I see I go on the Vegan news alerts, you know, to Goob and I research all of the Web sites to do news stories. And, you know, I constantly looking to the Internet, trying to find, you know, the most recent story of what's happened or, you know, I go to attract my audience is going to be a good read for them, is going to educate them vertical to learn anything from this. [00:24:30] So things about, you know, like I said about animals, Udalls, something ethical, something that's, you know, you know, it's something that happens to animals and plants and animals, slaughterhouse or abuse or in the Persian farm, things like that. People are like, oh, you know, it really brings them in. And I find the visual stuff as well as very effective. You know, so if you post a picture with text underneath about animal welfare or something, people really it really hits them. And I find that I am getting a lot of people e-mailing me saying, you know, the picture you put up really struck me and I did more research and now I want to go Vegan, which I do. So it's it's obviously working know it's it's affecting people in a positive way, Brooke. Probably I mean, it hurts to see it, but we need to look because what do we look or we don't it's still happening. So what I want to do is bring awareness to this because it's happening every single second of every single day. And we're the ones that are giving it the power to consumers. So if we change what we buy, then the shops are going to have to change what they provide. [00:25:31] You know, so it's the knowledge is power, I to say so, yeah. So it's working. Kind of. [00:25:40] I went with the you mentioned a little bit about, you know, during the curation process and looking at impact and things like that. And I just interviewed the founder and president of PETA, Ingrid Newkirk, and I was and do you affiliate with organizations such as PETA or PETA itself or other things based out of Australia, or do you kind of keep living? Vegan dot com, like a little bit more separate. [00:26:09] Yeah, I keep it, I pretty much keep it separate, I'm not really affiliated. I've been approached by many companies to post, you know, ads on my side. [00:26:18] So that's enough for now. I'm not doing that because I feel like if the site is full of all these affiliations and all these ads kind of takes from the information. So for now, I'm just keeping a nice team and doing it myself and, you know, people like that. But you don't who knows in the future what would happen. But for now, it's just living Vegan on. So do many. [00:26:40] I love it, too. I mean, it's very simple. You know, you have resources, recipes in your packages. It's it's very, very clean. Even the recipes, the pictures, they're very easy to digest. [00:26:52] What I'm looking at, it is like I really appreciate that. I think a lot of people do in their clutter, you know, to do just kind of like I think down to axiomatic, like core principles is right. So I kind of wanna talk about your work. And before we dove into the book that you are currently writing, I want to talk about the work that you submit to. I wouldn't be surprised if there's like some Segway is there from Healthy for a Vegan Life U.K. magazine as well. Some places in tribute writing to keep your roles there. And like what genera and veganism do you speak to? Obviously, the dietician is going to come into play, but do you have a roadmap that you follow for those different magazines? [00:27:36] And Sobecki about was about a year ago, I approached I approached from a five magazines and offered to write some content for him. And big, in my view, you were interested. [00:27:47] So ever since I've been writing Monkey Country contributing monthly to them and sometimes to give meaning to topic, and sometimes I decide on topics. So it could be anything from, you know, pregnancy, breastfeeding. What is V12? How to boost your libido, you know, Vegan diets and skin health, things like that. You know, so it's it's very varied, but it's very interesting. And I really like to write. So I noticed and yeah, I get like a full two pages in their magazine every month, so it's great. [00:28:18] I think everyone should require their dietician to be like a writer as well, because. Because it's keeping you up eight and soaps, halloumi, all of you Certina, any time someone's contributing to any monthly platform or anything like that with content, writing, YouTube and whatever, I'm I'm much more prone to think that their current, you know, and that's the idea. Yeah. Because I'm with their past principles and things like that, nothing's current. Medical books aren't updated too frequently. [00:28:46] You know, no nutrition is ever changing. We learned so much to learn all the time. So when you have to write content, you obviously have to do a lot of research. So you're like you said, you're current, you're up to date, you're learning. I'm always learning as a dietician. You never stop learning. You're learning every day. [00:29:03] So, yeah, it's important. I think that's exciting. [00:29:08] Okay, so I want to kind of get into the book. I love, like previews and I love being on the front end of that. So what can you tell us about it? It's it's about Vegan pregnancy, prenatal about. So yeah. [00:29:21] So I've got two books and two books. So one I'm hoping to launch early next year. That is see the reason it's like a resource type Vegan and starter tool kit book. [00:29:31] So it's going to be very illustrative, very graphic, lot like not graphic, lots of bad pictures, very easy to read, colorful, bright. You know, it's not just going to be text. It's going to be very easy to read book. So this is basically going to be talkable, all the nutrients in detail. We talk about different diseases like chronic diseases, autoimmune diseases, talk fatuity, you have breastfeeding, pregnancy, all these topics to be covered. And then there's also going to be a psychology side of this as a psychologist based. So I had a psychologist help me out. Would it have been a content as well? So there's a lot to promote speciesism and things like that about animal welfare and all of that. So it's very comprehensive, very, very interesting. And it's really for people who are thinking about going vegan, there's a lot of stuff about getting started as a vegan, like a weekly meal plan, shopping, what you should buy at the shops, you know, documentaries, you should watch all that stuff. [00:30:26] But it's also for people who are Vegan long term big and they just want to know more about the benefits of it. And, you know, why is it good for my health? And, you know, I go into a talk with a lot of dairy in the book. You don't need to know what's in it, like bad animal protein or some protein, all that kind of stuff. So it's really, really exciting. It's a really interesting book and I'm very excited to get it put together. [00:30:49] So that's how we treat the Vegan best. So Vegan I love it. I've covered everything I normally say, but where is the action item? Where's the implementation? You know, a lot of people who author Vegan books either go one side or the other. It's all recipes and No. A scientific study and no implementation. And I'm like, there's like a a good mixture. [00:31:15] Yeah. What do I do with this? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Obviously the second book is will probably not be ready to about twenty two, but that's the problem. Vegan pregnancy. [00:31:25] So that's I have started it but I'm in the very early stages. So the first movie, the Vegan starter to Bible and the second one would be the bigger pregnancy the following year probably. So you're working on two books. [00:31:38] That sounds flagship. I have not heard of it and I haven't done a search, so maybe there's a few out there, but it's taboo. And, you know, you kind of mentioned that earlier, but I have four children and know vegetarianism alone. But Vegan to certain obis, it was actually the way I vetted getting an OPG Y and, you know, it was pregnant, a new one. I mean, I was at a bit while I was forming my family and it's it's a rocky road. Have some. Oh yeah. Thousands of babies in their lifetime. Look at you and say you're going to damage yourself and your child. You know. I think they're all crucial to get information out there, and I haven't heard of any books and I certainly are certain that we weren't any on when I was doing my gestation. It's really. Can you tell us a little bit about, like some of the elements you're going to include in that? [00:32:30] Yeah, so like I said, it's in the very early stages. Look, I basically just want I want women to know a lot of women. It's basically to be for women who are considering getting pregnant, who are Vegan, because obviously nutrition partners in nutrition begins before conception. [00:32:44] So this book isn't just for why you're pregnant prior to as well or just people who are interested in you, what you eat while you're pregnant to begin to how to be healthy. So it's just I want to walk through all the nutrients, you know, what's important and how much you should be having and also obviously the sources of these foods. So people will have to be trying to figure it out for themselves and then maybe comparing, you know, Vegan pregnancies to not be the pregnancies and things about, you know, certain like fish. Fish is highly toxic and they can pass all that, all lots of Kompass to the baby through your placenta. A lot of women don't understand or realize that. So, you know, dove to all of that as well. Like the difference between animal protein and this protein in pregnancy. [00:33:31] Yeah. So it's like I said, it's very early on in money in my chapter one. So it's what it's going to be an exciting book and it's going to be everything in there. [00:33:41] It's going to be important for a woman who is having a baby and wants to have a healthy pregnancy and ensure she's got no nutritional deficiencies. Obviously talk with supplementation as well, because when you're pregnant, you do need to supplement to ensure that you're getting everything that you need. [00:33:56] So that's also going to be good. I'm excited because I've had so sorry. I've had so many women emailed me in the last bubbles months. [00:34:07] I've had a lot of women email me about the third week of pregnancy and, you know, just concerns and stuff. So I feel like this book is is is a must. It's very important for sure. [00:34:17] Absolutely. I think that it's going to be a game changer for me. I'm going to push it out to everybody I know, because I women's health is so under and over. You know, it's not just the states. Like every country I've gone to, all of the health studies have been done largely on men, you know, and we don't have the same as we're all discovering. But I think it's it's so imperative. Little research until the fertility crisis hit, we really didn't understand a whole lot about pregnancy, which is amazing because it's responsible for the propagation of our species. You think you'd be the most funding out there? Well, we have more patients about erectile dysfunction than we have. So I know that's true that I'm wondering if you can kind of enumerate for me. You have these two books that are on the horizon, but where do you see some of the trends within the Vegan like diet alter heading? I'm kind of speaking to, I guess, products in particular. There was that huge push on net milks and things like that in the USA economy and things. When soy people were getting there, there was arguments about soy being bad and so everyone trying to net. But then there's no allergies. It's all about oatmeal. You know, Starbucks is getting oatmeal and everyone's oatmeal fanatics and things like that. But I'm wondering if you can kind of point towards because it's your it's your science and your trade and your education. Do you feel like there will be a return to, like a whole food Vegan diet? Or do you think there's going to be more of these, like foam meats and things like that as as this next five years kinds of unfolds? [00:36:02] Yeah, I think a lot of these big companies can see, you know, where it's going. And where the money might be. And so I think there's going to be a lot of food meets and a lot of process to Vegan food. I mean, as a Vegan, I say, look, you know, in moderation, small amounts of processed foods and treat fruits are fine. [00:36:19] But I feel like like you said when you started your Vegan journey to get a lot of that process still, as I think most vegans do. So I think the trick is to teach food. And that's okay in the short term when you're learning for, you know, a new one. But over time, you need to push more towards the whole food trampas approach because that's the healthy diet. That's I don't I call it a diet. That's the healthy lifestyle. Let's have the Vegan. I says eat wholesome campus. So, yeah, I think to be the junk food thing is going to shoot through the roof because I think these big companies who have a lot of money are just see where it's going and they know that that's where they're going to. They want to do well. So they've got to be another option, which is good for us both. We need to just ensure that we don't go crazy on the stuff. You know, focus more on Whole Foods than this. [00:37:05] Yeah. I mean, for all of a lot of American economy, you know, there's billions of dollars being funded into this like impossible burger and faux me. And I don't think they all have it bad. In fact, I think with a boom in the industry, they'll they'll actually be these ones that are a little bit less perfect for you. I do want there to be a return to conversation about, you know, something being good for you. You know, being. Real food and not a bunch of preserved goals that are animal based, but still are really bad for the human body. All right. I want to turn towards we've covered your goals with these books and things like that. And now, I mean, to have you indulge me, if you would, with about 10 questions from our audience that we're very curious to find out. [00:37:52] I've boiled down about 50. So for everyone listening questions, but I could I coagulated them, if you will. I correlated them together. So the number one is a lot of people ask about how do you personally start educating someone and about Vegan nutrition. [00:38:10] Do you have like a top five? A lot of people were like, what are her top five? You know, like most important key concepts to understand about nutrition and the Vegan. [00:38:18] Do you have any. [00:38:22] Yeah, well, OK. So basically, when people are I have ever heard of. Melanie Joy to psychologist when Joy. [00:38:31] She kind of turned Peronism and she talks about the trillions of justifications so people feel that what they're eating is normal, natural or necessary. [00:38:40] So it kind of. [00:38:42] And when someone comes to me and a new Vegan or they want to be in a kind of you have to kind of touch on that stuff. [00:38:47] So you actually start with the psychology side of it. You know that it's it's just it's been so ingrained in this for so long that we believe in it so much in this story. But in fact, it's none of those. So I usually kind of talk a bit about speciesism. [00:39:06] And all of that stuff. But at nutritionally, I take the top five, I would probably focus on what protein is a big one, even though for me it's one of the easiest ones, because basically, if you're if you're eating enough calories is a big beacon, you're getting enough protein. [00:39:20] It's that simple. Unless you have, like an eating disorder or something, then you've got to protein pretty much. I mean, also necessary. And Chris Taito is every day. Chris, every day. Sorry. That's Irish. Irish for Chris. We are hearing a pretty well balanced diet. Proteins on issues, subprojects formidable because you just need to about two weeks. People always ask the second one would be big twelve because people are concerned. How we get eaten up as a big red. Generally, I recommend everybody supplemented beachwear finisher. Really. They can really focus on eating fortified foods every day at the same amount. You know, it's just so much easier to take a spray of V12 every day. So would you recommend that vitamin D would probably another one. [00:40:04] Because as a beacon, you don't you don't get any very deep through your diet. So you need to obtain it either to supplement or from the sun. So we talk about that a bit. [00:40:16] So protein vitamin D. and it'll make a series of mega cheese would be the next one of thing to dissolve. Is this the fourth? I'll make it through so healthy fats. So basically, people are worried about, you know, if I don't eat fish, what's going to happen? Malcolm, you're going to have the fat spill. What you don't realize is that fish contains a lot of dioxins and these are mad. And all this stuff that you read, you don't want your body and omega 3s fish to get. I make a cheese from reentry into water. So if you take a rain, I'd be happy supplement. You're gonna get the same omega 3s of the fish conserving what I'm consuming the fish, take out the middleman as such. So Marina B or you can just take, you know, almost two seeds, hemp seeds and stuff. So I'm Vegan three years out of the womb. And then I would probably go with iron. [00:41:02] I think I'm a few people as well. [00:41:04] So, you know, some people are more exposed to no iron levels when they're Vegan. But I think once you focus on eating foods containing ARED, then you do want to do OK. You know, like cooking your spinach. And having that every day or having lots of leafy greens, beetroot, blackstrap molasses, things like that, dried apricots, all that kind of thing. Ungood, stuff like that book. Some people will need to supplement bananas. Well, it depends on your art levels. But I always recommend to begins to get a low test maybe every six to 12 months, especially as a new Vegan just to ensure that everything is going as it should do. [00:41:45] So they will probably I think that's fine. Make 3D printing doesn't fit. [00:41:53] I'm wondering. And so we had another question along that same line and people were asking if you personally subscribe to a specific brand or kind of Vegan multi vitamin. There's millions out there. [00:42:04] And I think sifting through the right ones and there's a lot of people that worry about certain areas that one is obtaining their vitamins like organic Vegan vitamins and things like that. What are your thoughts on that? Or do you have one that you recommend to your clients? [00:42:19] When I recommend art wise? I take flooding sort if you have an eye over America, Florida, it's Nordics and Sparta. One is something that I recommend because Fashloom is just like a liquid art. [00:42:31] It has no side effects. It doesn't cause constipation or anything like that. And it's very easy to take even for kids. So that's a really good aren't supplements. And then there's a product over here called by a sushi. Those if you happen over there, maybe not. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's the range I try Mike for me. One of the things I quite like my sentiments now. I don't think they're actually organic. What did you can get organic even better. Something always organic is better. [00:42:57] You have Salu grow your own. We're very big up gardens right now in the States. I mean, there. Has a lot of different things that it's launched. But one of my favorite that I proudly contributed to is a vertical garden. Oh, wow. Yeah. Fornia. And space is on the ocean and prized possessions. So you don't donate your lawns to gardens. It's good they go up. [00:43:23] Very good. Now, I take I'm sorry there's a delay. I think self-sufficiency is definitely the future. I have been growing your own products. Your own crops is definitely the way to go, even for people like me. [00:43:36] And I always try to express my audience is sick of hearing me say it, but I feel like the only thing I can help thriver children like plants die on me. I'm not the greatest at that. I don't understand why I buy the fertilizer. I do the research, but I can actually. So if I can do it, everyone can. It's out there. [00:43:56] Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:57] Can two people ask if what the most important books are resources for you. Where do you glean a lot of your knowledge from? How do you stay up to date. Do you posture like your protheses and then go Fedder out the information, or do you have like these news feed rolls that you get it from? [00:44:17] Well, I do. I spend a lot of time on progress. Twitch's has on the latest journal articles. So as a dietician, I have access to that. [00:44:24] I mean, I'm sure I know people probably four, too, but I think you do have to pay up. See, I remembered Dieticians Association of Australia, so I'm on that every day. You know, that is Atkins for this year and stuff. [00:44:37] But, um, also, like I said, I read for four people. I suggest they read books by campus doctors, you know, Dr. Gregor and Dr. Kofman or Colin Campbell. And there's some great books out there to China study. I highly recommend to your audience How Not to Die. All those books are really good. Read, read, educational, fantastic book. Basically for me it's more of the journal articles so I can read information from and if I hear something about new new research that's come out, then I go in and investigate myself, medical journals, different issues. And so sometimes I might hear it from somewhere else or someone else post about it, or a different dietician or different doctor. And then I go in and learn about research and sense. Yeah. So it's it's a constant study, constant, constant study. As a dietician, you you're always working on studying all this, trying to keep up to do. It's ever changing. [00:45:30] Yeah. Ours. I wonder there are put in and asked about how you personally and your private practice, what is the most common reason that people are looking for your assistance is you people come to you for weight loss, disease, sitting them until what is like. Is there a larger category than others as to why people consult you and are turning Vegan? [00:45:56] Well, I would say the main thing is health wise would be chronic disease, so tied to it. I just got diagnosed with Type two diabetes. [00:46:03] My doctor said, if you're going to get a heart attack, I don't change my diet or put a huge amount of people as well for weight loss. So a lot of people like, are you go Vegan, but I want to lose 20 kilos or 40 pounds. [00:46:17] Yes. So I think chronic disease maybe would be the reason. And then I cassadaga a lot of women asking questions about being in pregnancy. So they're probably the main main ones. Women with young children who have been told by their doctor that a child needs strong cow's milk to be healthy and stuff like that. So I try to educate them, teach them, and obviously, like so generally Cosulich recommended for one one year old. Well, basically, I recommend Stop the Child Once to finish breastfeeding and see breast all as best as long as possible. Once the child's finished breastfeeding, we recommend to unsweetened soy milk. Organic soy milk is as close to an cowslip without all the bad stuff. And or I can repeat with Campina, which is also good, but that's only after the child's turn. One would recommend that APC's comes with a tiny constipating two babies and children. So it's not recommended. [00:47:13] Absolutely. I we had a bunch of people learning that you were a Vegan parent right in. And they were wondering about how you personally, because you have so much information. How do you educate your children and kind of arm them with the proper amount of information, given their respective young ages, you know, to your can handle very little. Eleven year old can handle a lot. But how many them and things like that. How do you kind of provide them with information for when they socialize. [00:47:45] Yeah. So basically one of my obviously my youngest is fifteen and so she has no idea yet. I have a tree and a half year old and almost five year old. [00:47:53] So they're they ask a lot of questions when we bought a lot of books about veganism and you know, to teach children in a very easy way, why were Vegan and stuff like that? Do you understand that? It's amazing. They're so accepting of it. And you know that dad told people we don't eat animals because we love them. We want to be happy. It's very cute. But I didn't tell them about you know, I explained to them that we need to look after our bodies and healthy foods from the flesh of animals that is good for our bodies. And it's not so nice for the animals because they have suffered and they understand the green, leafy green vegetables and colorful fruits and vegetables are very good for their bodies. And they're very aware. And you know that to be not your move to understand. It's it's a really good, good way to start them in their life, to understand the importance of healthy plants and, you know, not. It's enough to see, you know, some people say, oh, you know what? You're restricting your child and you shouldn't. It's not fair. We like people who are raising their child or niece or are not teaching or childhood. If it's coming from one teacher teaching, why should it? Since coming from so, I believe that you can only guide them a certain amount. And once the research reach a certain age, it's going to be up to them. So I'm hoping that what I've taught them would be enough for them to continue on campus. So I agree. Yeah, they're pretty knowledgeable for their age, so I'm pretty happy like it. [00:49:14] I always tell people it was. It was. Sounds terrifying. Is actually an open door opens a door for me to link other principles and core core values that my family employs, you know, compassion and ability. Global citizenship. You know, these ideas about know what we can't see. It doesn't mean it's not still happening. Yeah. So it allowed me I used it as, you know, as an opportunity and continued to, you know, and also to reexamine my own dialog. We're doing, as any parent will tell you, is that's the main thing with having children. It allows you to just completely reexamine your relationship with some once thought, you know, first year. Yeah. I go I to find it as a source of education. And, you know, I think that having a child and they really in childhood, they are forming a relationship and bringing that to the forefront, that you are building a relationship with food, whether or not knowledge it, every adult world has a billion relationships with food. Absolutely. And unhealthy and sudden realize that as you're doing it, bring it to cognition is. Aw, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So the final obvious question and that we had a ton of people ask about and so I'm going to ask the kind of broad and let you just go where you want with it. But it was naturally about Cobbett, the teen pandemic. And there's so many different facets and I don't ascribe lineage or blame to any country. There's a ton of talk about what markets, particularly with begins, and that's fine. And, you know, I have my own private foundation there with what I believe. But you as a dietitian. Again, because you have a lot of people coming in with health that there will be eventually, you know, people coming in wanting to prevent Koven and things like that, moving forward as a reason why they're consulting with you. But do you a sound bite that you offer people who do have clients currently, they ask you about it. You have anything that you can kind of state about diet and things like pandemic's, you know, or the current state of Cauvin that you advise people with regularly. [00:51:24] So are you waiting in order to boost immune system, prevent coded or post covered worlds? You have that like all of it. You know, good advice you have. [00:51:36] Yes, well, obviously, as a stronger your immune system, the less likely you are to catch anything. So if you're healthy and you eat an antiinflammatory diet and you get plenty of rest and you know, you exercise and you eat lots of fiber and colorful organic whole foods, you're going to be much more likely to fight off poverty if you patches or maybe prevent yourself from getting because the stronger immune system that's like you to catch things. Bacteria, viruses, salt. [00:52:05] And in terms of the post-Cold War, the world still I mean, you know, like you said, people put blame on things like I really believe that the factory farming and all that stuff is is obviously always taught or is wrong. But after the cold. But it just shows that, you know, it's risky. What we're doing, what we're doing is risky. I mean, animals carry diseases. You've got animals, not even wet markets. We're just inside and these chicken houses and all cooped up together. They got diseases and they're sick and, you know, there's a risk of passing on stuff to humans. You know, so I just think that that kind of food is not we wanted to put it in your body. So I think. Stay away from it. Stay away from animals products even more so ethical that I need a morsel. I definitely wouldn't be wanting to eat animal products after after Kofman 19. [00:52:59] But, yeah, just generally, there's not really anything specific. But just keep your immune system healthy. Just easy eating a healthy, wholesome thomkins diet, exercising every day, getting enough sleep. Not too much stress because people find this very stressful. [00:53:14] This whole thing is very stressful. When you're stressed, you're more likely to catch things. So you need to do what you need to do. Yoga, meditation. Take a hop wrestle for. Do whatever works readable. We live in a very stressful world and I read a post code. I find paper even more niche, more anxiety. More people are just scared. And also it's very important to look out for mental health and physical health. [00:53:39] Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Well, Yvonne, we are out of time, but I want to say thank you so much for taking the time today and giving us all of your information. I am Perman woman and I will circle back around once your book goes up and you are on your tour to be part of that circuit so that our audience can have this follow up with the first the the first Vegan Bible, as I've turned it. [00:54:03] Maybe that would be the new thing. Do you have a title for it? No, my guess. OK. What do I do now? [00:54:12] The app. Don't call it that. I would do that. Should they name people can look it up first and then the subsequence, you know, pregnancy and begin and pre pregnancy and Vegan fertility and Vegan, you know, all of those areas that book I will keep pestering you for as well. But thank you so much for giving us your time today. No problem. Thanks for having me on. It's good for everyone listening. We've been speaking with Yvonne O'Halloran and she's a dietician. You can find out more about all of her work. I assume her future books will be posted there as well. It's w w dot living Vegan dot com. [00:54:48] And thank you for sharing your time with us today and with myself personally. Please stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am talking with Renata Joy. Renata is a personal trainer, nutrition expert, and the founder of Pure Joy Wellness—a community-based lifestyle brand that helps women over 50 improve their lives through fitness, nutrition, and self-care. A former Emmy-nominated television producer, Renata started Pure Joy Wellness to teach women the importance of taking care of themselves, and to show them how to regain their health and revitalize their bodies and spirits. She’s on a mission to change the conversation around aging, and to give women who have been left behind a voice. At 63, Renata is living proof that you can be confident and healthy at any age, and she’s created a space where women can talk about whatever issues they’re dealing with—everything from menopause, nutrition, and fitness, to supplements, skincare, and mental health.   Key points addressed were   The philosophy and core values around Renata’s lifestyle brand and consultancy work  in her company Pure Joy wellness We also discussed Renata’s current work and future endeavors with women over 50, a population that is largely underserved and under heard from in contemporary health venues   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.

Today I am speaking with Susannah Juteau. Susannah is a registered dietitian who discovered a medication-free solution to chronic headaches. Following a 10-hr brain surgery - she suffered for 5 years from constant, debilitating headaches and migraines until she discovered therapeutic fasting. Within 8 weeks she got off all meds and has not experienced any migraines since. She is now on a mission to help others achieve the same life-changing results.   She's also an avid traveller who loves playing sports and competing in geeky board game nights with her husband. She is determined that her two young girls grow up continuing to be best friends. Susannah holds a Bachelor's degree in Neuroscience and a Master's degree in Nutrition and Dietetics.   Key points addressed were   Susannah's personal history suffering from Migraine and how she developed a nutrition and fasting regimen to eliminate the episodes from her life We also discussed the need for studies in regards to how biological benefits from fasting such as autophagy can significantly aid alleviating episodes of Migraine in combination to a curated nutrition and diet plan. This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts

Today I chat with Ania Mroz-Pacula. Ania is a CEO of FERRON, a vegan luxury designer brand, that enables her to be creative and talk about things that are important to her- sustainability, cruelty-free lifestyle and empowering women entrepreneurs. When she's not working or researching ways to lower her negative impact on the planet, Ania is usually busy with her rescued babies, 4 year old Beagle- Harrier, Oscar, and 3-year-old Husky cross, Maya. This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with the CEO of FERRON, which is a Vegan luxury handbag brand Ania Mroz Pacula key points addressed were on his work that tie her humanitarian efforts into FERRON brand. We also discussed key elements of her handbags, products and her efforts to ensure that every stage of the production was as clean as possible, given the infancy of her company's age. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Ania Mroz Pacula. [00:00:36] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Acom, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:33] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Ania Mroz Pacu. Ania Is the CEO of FERRON. [00:01:42] It's a Vegan luxury brand. You can find out more about it and Ania as well on her Web site. W w w dot FERRON dot c o. That is Effy r o n dot CEO. Welcome, Ania. [00:01:55] Thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely, I am excited to climb through. [00:02:00] We were talking before we got started and I really love both your company, the ethos, the philosophy, as well as the product and kind of like learning out on. [00:02:09] I'm a little obsessive and I have to get myself one. But before we get to all of that, I will tell everyone who's listening who hasn't listened to our podcast before. I'll give you a quick roadmap in which our inquiry will be based today. And then I'll give you a brief bio on Ania before I start asking her all of our wonderful questions. So a roadmap for today's inquiry will be we'll first cover Ania's academic and professional background and then we'll look at kind of unpacking her Vegan story if it hasn't already come to fruition within the academic and professional background. Then we'll turn to the logistics around FERRON, namely the who, what, when, where, why, how of the company. And then we'll turn to the philosophy and the ethos based around it and all of its endeavors. [00:02:49] We'll get into the Vegan nature, the UK, where unus based out of the difFERRONces and then some of the stylistic choices of her products, things like that. [00:02:59] And then we'll talk about future plans and also just particular's with the Vegan story as it pertains to FERRON and yet in particular. [00:03:06] So, as promised, a quick bio on Ania, Ania is as sustainability and waste reduction advocate with a passion for working with people and building relationships. She's the CEO of Feron, a Vegan luxury designer brand that enables her to be creative and talk about things that are important for her sustainability, cruelty free lifestyles and empowering women entrepreneurs. [00:03:29] When she's not working or researching ways to lower her negative impact on the planet, she's usually busy with rescued babies, with her rescue babies, her four year old beagle, Herry Harrier Oscar and three year old Husky Cross. I'll have to get into those names, Maya, who love exercising more than she does. She volunteers at Launch Pad Reading, organize and attends meet ups in the Reading and London area. And she travels whenever she can as well, which is a little put on hold. I'm sure right now. I'm so excited to climb through everything that you do and everything you have kind of postured here. But prior to getting to that, I'm wondering if you can kind of walk us through your academic background and early professional life at book as it led to launching Feron. [00:04:21] Sure. Yes. Thank you. So to be completely honest. My education and early kind of experience, job experiences are ups and nothing to do with what I do at the moment. [00:04:38] So I am fresh. I moved to the UK. Oh, gosh. Way too long now. And then I went to university. This was my dream come true. Basically, I like the challenge. When I arrived, I didn't speak any English. I went to a community college, got the English language lessons that took me about a year to be ready to enroll into what was, again, my dream, a journalism with criminology. [00:05:10] So I finished the degree and then it kind of a kind of I move from job to job. And then I ended up working in H.R.. [00:05:25] And as much as long as I like some bits, some parts of the H.R. role. [00:05:31] I've been doing it was too structured for me, if you will. Mind you, it was a I.T. sector. So obviously everything is kind of fast paced and moving. That's what I liked the most. And then. Yeah. Meeting, meeting people, meeting various people, coming from difFERRONt backgrounds, difFERRONt cultures. That's why kind of. I appreciated at the time, but I always kind of knew that this isn't this is not it. I've been doing a lot of outside work activities that kind of led me to explore the sustainability and Vegan passion more and more. [00:06:18] Um. And yeah, the the way I kind of ended up launching fire on is just by a lot. [00:06:27] I met this beautiful couple that that cared about the animals. And whenever for, you know, for a cruelty that fashion is sadly intertwined with at the moment. So we came up with the idea, with the product. They've done a lot of legwork for me, too. So I have to mention that, unfortunately. [00:06:58] They kind of they say they take their personal circumstances have changed and they weren't able to dedicate as much time and resources into the brand. [00:07:09] So after careful consideration and obviously discussion discussions with my husband, I decided to buy the brand fully and so effectively, officially off the last last year. April Theran is as is my my band, my on any front originally. [00:07:37] Peggy, when was it launched originally from? [00:07:42] It was launched in 2018. March 2018. That's where our first baby came out. [00:07:51] Nice. Yeah. In those first five years, there's so much transition that happens within myself. It's all about staying flexible. Right. For the pivot. That keyword pivot I climb through Feron and it's attachment to. It's big in values, in the sustainability that it sounds like it already was. But before we get there, do you can you describe. So are you yourself. Vegan. And how did you attach. How did you know that you wanted to. How did all of the people that began the project understand or know that they wanted to make sure that it was sustainable and Vegan in nature? [00:08:28] So I come from a family that was obsessed with meat and. [00:08:38] And not only in terms of food, but also animals used for fashion. So I vividly remember and bless her heart. I love my mom to bits that it was this old fashioned old generation of people where she would she would be making sure that all the investments she does is it's in leather because it's high quality. It's it's versatile. [00:09:07] It's obviously it's more kind of sturdy. [00:09:13] And, you know, it's going to last us for a longer time, longer period of time than any synthetic material. And I just I don't know. I think I was very empathetic, sympathetic, um, child always. And I kind of I never agreed with with usage of animals for for the sake of fashion or anything, really. So I'm I'm Vegan at the moment. Yes. But I've it's not I've been vegetarian most of my life, but I transition to Vegan is probably around three years ago and. [00:09:53] And that was a very conscious and very obviously adult driven decision. [00:09:59] It was I just I just knew I had to do that to move even further from being vegetarian to Vegan. [00:10:10] Yeah, there's a lot of difFERRONt ways to come at it. And it sounds like you have several in your own personal story. You know, a lot of people come in, particularly some of the younger generations coming up right now. You know, Generation Y or whatever, we're going to name them as well as generation ahead of them. But there's been a lot of people that come at it from the accountability and sustainability. And I think some of the older guard, and maybe this is too general, but come at it or you came to the Vegan lifestyle from compassion, you know, from these kind of animal rights moments that were happening and really big in the 80s and 90s when they were hitting their genesis. But it doesn't really matter how you get there. I think it sounds like you have a combination of this, you know, empathy and compassion for animals as well as this, you know, this huge push that you have in your every day life towards sustainability and, you know, and being fiscally proactive in conservation of the Earth and its resources. I'm curious when you so let's unpack it really quickly. So everyone who's listening. So it's a it's a Vegan luxury designer brand. And it's you mainly deal with handbags, correct? [00:11:19] Correct. So at the moment, it's an online store. So it's it's a designer bag. So you are closely in touch it with with the design of the back. So. And we aren't sure at the moment. [00:11:38] Oh, we we only have three difFERRONt colors. There's the same design in three difFERRONt colors. Obviously we hoping to grow and expand on our designs. But the moment this is just one classic piece, it's our signature collection. And hopefully we'll be able to grow from here. [00:12:01] Yeah, I love it. I was talking to you before we started. And because of a history in fashion photography and I've had fashions, my my safe space where I go to explore and have fun. And that includes handbags and accessories and things like that. And people who follow a lot of my podcast know that I'm I'm nothing short of a fan of Stella McCartney, both in her clothing and handbags. And for a long time, she was kind of one of the only major designers that was overtly, you know, vegetarian and had Vegan products. And so but we were talking about the classical. I love the style of your. I have to say the signature cross body in Camel is such a. It's bull. It's so in one. And I leave things that are classic and iconic, like the Coco Chanel era. And yet so contemporary. You know, your lines are so clean and everything is so. And here's my tie in with with Vegan and that because I feel like a lot of designers, clothing and accessories who deal in leather substitutes or leather like materials become very scared of that kind of modern clean line because they're terrified that the it will be perceived as immediately not leather or, you know, sub sub leather. And I love that you guys kind of took that full on, you know, not only in kind of being this luxury design, but also this minimalistic where imperfections do show, you know, that's there. They say if you want a really great paint job, don't put anything on the walls or the floor and look at it because it's like there's nothing to hide anything, you know? And the same is true with design. And I'm wondering how that how that's been perceived and also how that kind of has been received. Like, you know, if you go on your Web site, you see that you have an attachment to Vogue and things like that. How is your reception since hitting the market ban large? [00:13:50] I just love what you just said. Yes. So the idea was to always to go for a timewell timeless staple and very versatile piece. And I think we managed to do just that. And to date, I've been receiving a really good reviews not only from our customers, but also from the people that have seen the bag. I think that one of the best, this compliment that we've received today was the fact that I'm a cobbler person, that, you know, he's been working in difFERRONt industries, difFERRONt not my being justice, but he's always been working with the leather. [00:14:37] And he he actually said that he he thought that is leather. It's just so well made. And the material is super, super doable as well as beautiful. And it gives you just a leather like feel to it. So I love everything about the back and the fact that you can unhook destruct and use as a handbag or a body or a shoulder bag. [00:15:09] And I think I think everyone kind of appreciates the versatile versatility of it. [00:15:18] Yeah, it has that. And it has both masculine and feminine qualities. I don't mean labels like that. However, you know, if you were to kind of denote the classical, you know, masculine and feminine, it has both like classical brands. Did you know Chanel in particular is always coming to mind? Because it was a very structured look and that was usually used for men, you know, and and and to have that come in and also represent the women. And I love that for your your pieces, they feel incredibly versatile and that they span, you know, this new awakening we're having regarding, you know, gender and fluidity and all of that. It just speaks to all of those things so well. And I like the simplicity and not having too much of a variation right now. I think people branch out and many, you know, too many versions of something too quickly and yours. It really does just kind of exemplify it. You can tell I'm a fan. I'm wondering when you went your product that the materials that you did, were you involved in that process? And if so, what? Did you kind of sample. Like, what did you consider before you landed on the material that you landed on? [00:16:25] And can you tell us a little bit about that material through material that is used at the moment is PITU and I'm not going to be lying. It's a synthetic material, so it's not the most sustainable one at the moment. [00:16:40] And there are difFERRONt Matute, you probably know that are difFERRONt fabrics being developed and being sort of developed and also trialed. And I'm more than happy to explore all the options for the future humpbacks and difFERRONt designs for fibrin. However, at this stage, I must say that's when we kind of this side is on the materials that we use for the bags. We just knew that we the most important part part for us at the decision of this decision in the decision process was to make sure that the material is it's is it gives you the luxurious feel and touch to it. And that was that was. And we did sample a few other materials, but we just we were quite disappointed with the whole look. And we actually made some samples out of the materials that we sampled. And then the result wasn't as beautiful as thoroughness today. But again, I'm conscious. [00:18:04] I'm very conscious of the fact that, you know, not the most sustainable material. And I'm happy to explore some other options. [00:18:14] And this is time. I mean, I think, you know, that's it's cool that you're being honest and open and years. Yeah. Kind of your only option. And now, you know, people are still playing around, but you've got pineapple leathers coming out. Apple leather is like it's a great time to, you know, be able to consider it and really sample the market and switch when you feel comfortable. I'm curious about like the hardware and things like that. Wood, did you pay great attention? Because when I think of luxury, I think of those details, you know, that Birkin bag moment and obviously not being something I own or it's not Vegan. It's just a very, very classical, iconic, you know, handbag that people think of. And it's the Birkin hand stitching, right, that everybody talks about. There's very tiny details. And for me, with with your brand, I think that the hardware would become very thoughtful. So can you tell us a little bit about that and how you guys are sourcing that as well as your production? Is that happening in the UK? Is it being outsourced to overseas? A little bit about that. [00:19:13] Yes. [00:19:14] So we went through a great deal of research in terms of their hard work, is that the back is so simple that, you know, the hardware we knew straight away that it's going to stand out is just going to stand out. So we need we need it to make sure that it's enhanced this luxurious look as well as the rest of the bag. So we've sampled quite a number of Hardwell details elements. So, yeah, it was a long, long process as well as the logo itself. So I don't know if you know this, but we do have a logo of our elephant. And we kind of that's linked with the charity work that we do. So we do support the Sheldrick Wildlife Trust, where we donate 10, 10 pound of each box sold to the orphanage in Kenya, which is absolutely amazing. And we we love collaborating with the with the charity days. They state is such an amazing job. But let's move to the materials and hardware, etc.. So. So their bags are actually manufactured in China. And again, that's I know that that's very disappointing to some of their customers. I actually had some people contacting me and saying that they are not going to be supporting a brand that manufactures in China. And I do understand it and. And I myself, as a customer, I would be concerned and I would be doing a thorough research about the brand by what I can tell you, I can I can promise you that myself, as the ex colleagues, we made sure we made the trips to China, to our manufacturer sites. We made sure that not only our factories, that the factories are Vegan and don't use any animal survival products, but we we just want to to make sure that we get to know them. And we are in contact with them and we appreciate what they do for us, because let's face it, it is the most economic lead, logical point of manufacturing the products at this stage. Again, this is something that I'm more than happy to explore, investigate and potentially move the factories that we use into Europe. And I've done some research and this might be something that we'll be investigating where we think at this stage it's it's China. [00:22:14] Yeah, absolutely. I see on your website you talk about FERRON, the name actually being Latin and mean iron gray hair or one who is well dressed in gray. How does that tie in to the brand? What is the communication there? [00:22:31] So we always want to give back to the charity that supports supports orphaned elephants. So that was, if anything, that was the starting point for us. [00:22:43] So we always want to make sure that the brand evolves around elephants given back, spreading the message about Vegan and more sustainable lifestyle and hence the name. Again, I was a lot of research and investigating and voting in. But we came up with a with the with the brand name. And I, I honestly, I do love it. It's, it's kind of it's strong. [00:23:17] It gives you this simple message and kind of bold boldness of the, you know, of of what we want to present to the world. [00:23:28] I think it ties in beautifully with with the image on the label as well as this. It's a very simple line drawing. That is your your logo or if you will, of the elephant. I think it's all very beautiful. You have a blog on your say. I feel like this is where you kind of really connect. Aside from the materials and things like that, you talk about, you know, difFERRONt Vegan aspects that are environmentally affecting things, how silk is made. You have difFERRONt person, things like that. How do you decide what is curated? Like what what makes it into the your blog or not? And do you yourself compose it or do you outsource that? [00:24:06] So I compose a composer. [00:24:08] I very often collaborate with other people, so I believe that the blog post you mentioned about silk, I kind of I wrote that with another lady. She has her own band. She's in an organic cotton clothing industry, if you will. So, yeah, I do. I kind of do my research. [00:24:35] I go online and I see what what is the most viewed kind of and researched. What are the most researched terms for Vegan fashion in general? [00:24:52] And I research Piton Web site. I go to my absolute guru. You probably know him. Joshua Kotcher. He's he's a Ments menswear fashion brand owner, brave gentleman. So I just I reach out to the Vegan fashion and entrepreneurs for kind of inspiration because I think we're in this together. And the more we spread awareness about veganism and sustainability, the better for the world in general. So. So, yeah, I honestly, I do believe it's a teamwork. [00:25:38] I agree. Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious about what the scene over in the UK is in London and difFERRONt areas of the UK regarding fashion that is Vegan in the States it's becoming it's over. I would say over the past at least five years, it's kind of not just blossomed, but taken off, you know, and it's it's due to all of these difFERRONt areas. The conversation about long before covered nineteen pandemic and took over. There was a huge conversation, particularly in fashion in the United States, about really being accountable, you know, and and talking. Having those conversations about sustainability, being more transparent about fashion, like littering the landfills. Designers are doing a lot of what you did with your brand, which is kind of going down to very few options and then being classical. That could stand the test of decades. As you know, you don't need to buy a new handbag every year. This is the one you can have for a decade, you know, hand down to your your sister or your daughter or something, your friend. So those kinds of conversations really start taking over. Designers that weren't Vegan had those conversations because they, you know, they were being asked the questions. And so I'm curious if it's the same in the UK, if you've seen it in the trajectory kind of spike with people being interested. And also with people wanting to own items that were eco friendly and sustainable and Vegan and accountable for not impacting the animal kingdom. [00:27:10] Yes, it's a very, very good question. So. [00:27:15] I opted in for the for the Vegan bags because as I did mentioned before, I, I, I just wanted to save the animals from being the victims of the fashion, vanity and like of thoughtless pursuit of of of stay on trend. So it's it's shocking to think that, you know, our desire for for cheap clothes, our desire and kind of sense of entitlement to feeling that we can take someone someone's life in the name of fashion is just horrendous. And whilst I'm seeing I'm noticing a big spike in the does that are more and more people are happy to invest in organic food and cruelty, food and Vegan and plant based food. There's still I believe there's still quite some times quite some work to do around clothing and fashion in general. Don't get me wrong, there are fashion shows. So last year in August, Tharon was actually one of the participants of the fashion show. It's a it's the only UK Vegan fashion show. And there are exhibitions and shows and pop ups coming up every now and then. But I think that's yet in terms of the clothing in general and fashion, if you can fashion, there's still some work to do and believe it or not. Quite recently I had a lady contacting me. She'd email to the mailbox and she said that she loves the back. She loves the look of it. She loves the design. But at this price point, she prefers to buy a real leather bag. And and, you know, I didn't respond. I just didn't because I got very upset, not by the fact that she doesn't want to invest in fibrin. But that kind of defeats the whole point of investing in cruelty free fashion, you know. Yeah. And maybe I shoot maybe in a in a while when I'm kind of I'm going to cool down. I will respond to, you know, provide a structured answer because that's that's what I mean. People they don't you think about how something is made. They just think about the price. And let's face it, if we you know, if we need to be be ready to spend a bit more for something dies environmentally friendly and. [00:30:13] Yeah, I agree. I completely concur. And I feel like that's why Stella McCartney and people that have come out as you know, as being vegetarian and big and brands are so powerful because it is still luxury that the price point is still designer runway. And and and I don't think that the continuity is which mean, in fact, there's a divorce from it. And a lot of industries where you get something environmentally friendly and there's more labor, it could because it's new. You know, things haven't come down in price. There's not enough competition and things of that nature. But it's also the caring shouldn't be free, you know, I mean, like as far as like with efforts that we put into, things should mean something to us. And I agree with that. I think attributing a lower price point to non leather is absolutely silly. I think you should, you know, perhaps pay a touch more for that new effort and things like that going through. That's neither here nor there, though. I'm wondering, what do you see? So this obviously with the pandemic, this has changed for a lot of people. And I'm wondering if it's changed really being a solely online enterprise, perhaps, and perhaps not. And what is the future for FERA? Do you are you going to expand on designs? Are you going to keep it where it's at? Are you going to expand it to difFERRONt marketplaces? You're available online? Does it shipped from the UK or are you going to try to get a United States presence? Is that down the road or not at all? What are the future plans for on. [00:31:39] So I never wanted FERRON to just be an online store. [00:31:43] If that makes sense. Oh, well, one collection even. So I really want to be a part of a bigger picture of the change in the fashion industry. And, you know, the cinema cottony. Courtney, this is this is this is my guru, too. This is an amazing example of how things should go in fashion. So I'm hoping down on the good path, on doing that, on expanding. So I'm planning on expanding the brand with more designs to really offer more kind of scale up model. And then the plan is to obviously do the whole wholesale and distribute much larger quantities. At the moment, we only an online store. However, we are we are part of a few marketplaces around the world. Actually, we do have some marketplaces in the states. And then I say that a majority of my customers are funding enough. They come from United States, especially Canada, which I'm very curious why that is. So, yeah, I'd love to open a boutique in London, too. Who knows? But at the moment, I think I'm being a very positive person, so I'm not trying to jump ahead and, you know, dwell on things. But unfortunately, I think that the current situation will kind of impact my plans. And and I'm going to have to brace myself and be more patient, which I'm struggling with. [00:33:27] Well, I think everyone as well. So much for talking with me today. We're out of time, but I really appreciate you kind of unpacking FERRON and what it's doing and just all of your honesty and transparency. I really appreciate it. And I hope all the success in the world for, you know, your future Vegan endeavors with their on and outside of that and very projects spoken to you today. [00:33:52] Thank you. Thank you for having me. He was a real pleasure. [00:33:56] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we have been speaking with Ania Mroz Pacula. She is the CEO of FERRON. It's a Vegan luxury brand. You can find out more and purchase those items on. W. W. W. Dot. F. E. R. Oh. And c. O. And until we speak again next time. [00:34:14] Remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am speaking with Sheena Russell. Sheena is founder & CEO of Made with Local, a health snacks company based in Nova Scotia. What started as a farmer's market table in 2012 has grown into a nationally-distributed brand known for delicious Real Food Bars and their innovative social-impact production model. You can find Made with Local's products in 1000 retailers all across Canada!   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry. 

Today I am talking with Vanita Badlani. Vanita is a sustainability activist, entrepreneur, CEO, and Founder of LaBante London. She has an MBA in International Business from Thunderbird, The American Graduate School of International Business in Arizona, USA. After a career in investment banking, she switched to her true love – pursuing her childhood passion for fashion and worked her way to making fashion sustainable and cruelty-free. Key points addressed were  Unpacking Vanita’s efforts to base Labante’s ethos of sustainability into the brand and products social messageWe also discussed some of the difficulties in finding vegan leather products that did not contain harmful ingredients such as PVC as she went into manufacturing her products This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with activist, entrepreneur and founder of the Vegan handbag line called Libonati London Vanita Badlani. Key points addressed were unpacking vanity's efforts to base Labonte his ethos of sustainability into the brand and products social message. We also discussed some of the difficulties in finding Vegan leather products that did not contain harmful ingredients such as BVC as she went into manufacturing her products. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Vanita Badlani. [00:00:40] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. Dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:37] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I'm very excited to be sitting down with Vanita Badlani, she is an activist, entrepreneur, CEO and founder. You can find out more regarding what we talk about today, as well as her products on Labonte, a dot com. [00:01:52] That is L.A. b a n t e dot com. Welcome, Vanita. [00:01:58] Hi, Patricia. Thank you for having me on your show. [00:02:01] Absolutely, I I'm excited to climb through everything that you're doing with Liban Day and your products as well as your history for everyone listening. [00:02:09] Who hasn't listened to my podcast before. I will offer you a quick roadmap of where the line of inquiry will be coming from and going to the podcast today. And then I will also read a quick bio on Veny to give you a platform as to where she's coming from. The roadmap that today's trajectory will follow is we'll look at events, does academic and professional background, and then we will look at unpacking her vegetarian slash Vegan journey. As it stands on a personal level, if it is not already tied into her aforementioned information, then we will look at unpacking Libonati and the logistics around her company when it was started. Who? What funding? All of those things. And then we'll start unpacking the ethos of how she embraces a specific philosophy with a company. We will also address goals for the brand and how that ties into vegetarian and vegan endeavors. We'll look at who her customer is and then we'll wrap everything up with future work that Venita looks at having over the next one to three years. As promised, a quick bio on Vanita. Prior to asking her questions that Neeta. But Loni is a sustainability activist, entrepreneur, CEO and founder of Libonati London. She has an MBA in international business from Thunderbird, the American Graduate School of International Business in Arizona, USA, after a career in investment banking. She switched to her true love, pursuing her childhood passion for fashion and worked her way to making fashion sustainable and cruelty free. So, Venita, I know that and we kind of crawl through everything quickly. I'm hoping that you can kind of divulge just a little bit more information about your academic and professional background and how that catapulted you into launching Libonati. [00:03:52] Absolutely. [00:03:55] To start off with, I was born in India, and through my years I actually worked in fashion in my uncle's business on and off and all my summer holiday. So I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I guess by the age of. Thirteen, fourteen. Quite young, Ben. And I always say the single minded focus grew into like a business I did a undergrad in business. And then after working a couple of years in India, I went to. Came over to Arizona, where I graduated international business from Thunderbird, which is ranked number one for its international business program because I knew. While I was working in my uncle's office, working with a fashion merchandizers designers, we used to supply two big box retailers like Calvin Klein, Macy's. So it really wasn't my blood from a very young age. And when I landed up doing the international business degree, I did it in finance because, as you know, the backbone of any business is cash flow and how it performs. Not only on profitability, but also at the same time keeping all the fundamentals in the black. [00:05:22] Yeah, after that relationship as well. [00:05:26] Cash flow as it goes. I'm interested about the relationship between cash flow and sustainability as we speak later on. But go on. [00:05:33] Yes. Yes, I did. And I will cover that when we discuss a bit more about sustainability as well. But when I graduate from business school, it was straight after 9/11. It was really hard to get a job at that time. But finally, after six to eight months of really Grilli like really trying really hard and managed to get a job in investment banking in Chicago. Whereas working for Bank one, which then later got acquired by JP Morgan. So I moved I worked originally for in Chicago, loved, loved Illinois and then moved to New York. Where I worked for JP Morgan. But I had to move to London, where, again, I continued in investment banking with Commerce Bank and Dresdner Kleinwort, where I worked in strategy and the strategy team for the CEO and CEO's office to help get prisoner Kleinbaum to be bought over by Commerce Spang. [00:06:38] So that was really where my professional life. When did was purely numbers oriented? But always, Patricia. There was like a niggling feeling in the base of my stomach that my calling was always to do much more. And I saw a window of opportunity when I decided to have a baby. And I said, OK, it's now or never. It's now or never. I'm going to do it. I took all my savings and I put it into a brand called Alabam. Take Lavonte by the waste comes from the Sanskrit term to truly achieve where it means. It's about the circle of life. It's more about giving back than it is taking from the planet. And that really became the ethos of the pillars of the brand that I set up. [00:07:27] So when you launched Liban today, did you have a clear idea of the product that you were building and the direction that you were headed, or did it kind of gradually unfold? [00:07:39] I think it's a that's a great question for show. [00:07:42] I knew that as a brand, it's always going to be easiest to spread the word about sustainability and cruelty free fashion if it's a bit more in your face. So handbags don't have a brand name on them. Whereas with clothing, it's a bit harder where the labels are hidden. [00:08:00] So originally, because I had only started with my own capital, my hard earned money that I put into the business, I did not take any outside investment. I started a really small way, the sterling silver ethically made jewelry business, which I supplied into big box retailers. But as I grew that business, I knew that the trend would be to go into handbags next. So I had planned it so that I would launch the handbags with a bit more capital. So as the business grew, I was able to take that into the handbags business and build a line which I knew really from the beginning would be Vegan cruelty free and sustainable. Because, you know, Patricia, I don't know if you remember, there was the days when you would go shopping and you would try to local, beautifully crafted handbags and which were cruelty free. But quite frankly, only thing all you found on the shelves will ever handbags. And if you will look for the non leather bags, they would be like the P you the cheap feeling kind of quality. It looked tacky and looked like not so great. The top felt like plastic. And that's not what I wanted our brand to be. I wanted it to be premium. I wanted to have the same craftsmanship as the leather bags. But I don't want to give a quality to the customer. But I knew that in order to get this true to the right customer base and spread the sustainable message, it would have to be at an accessible price point where most department stores or stocks would be happy to stock it so that there's enough potential in their return. [00:09:46] They get enough return on investment as well for the retail space to give to us. So. So that was a gradual transition into handbags. And then coming up with the handbag line, which also took a year or two to get the esthetic of the brand looking and feeling the right way that it should be, because that was we did quite a bit of research, really find the best materials. That was what was time consuming and that was really what makes the essence of the brand. [00:10:13] So when did you what year was it that you were shopping for materials and how did that curation process work? So we haven't spoken to too many. I will say we are speaking with a few more Vegan handbag makers currently and for the podcast, and a lot of them are in different parts of the world. So it's interesting to find out how your experience in the UK was. But when you went shopping, first of all, what was the year and what was the material selection and is it different now? [00:10:44] Yes. [00:10:45] So when I went so when I would sort of go about it was about twenty thirteen. And by the time we launch the first time my collection was twenty fifteen. [00:10:55] So took two years really to get that process perfectly nailed. Because what happened. Patricia, is that in the shopping process. We found that there were lot of materials available, but a lot of them contained QVC. Now PDC is nothing but plastic. So the whole planet can block these PDC handbags will be flying in space. I mean, it's that ridiculous of a material. And that's something I did not want to contribute towards because I cannot say that we truly Vegan cruelty free, which means we don't harm animals. We're truly sustainable. Which means we don't want to harm the planet. And then I go about making handbags, which my which put PPC in them. And then essentially I'm harming both the planet. And essentially, there is no point in saying that because then I'm not being true to myself. If you care about the animals and you care about the planet, then it's like a circle. It's like the circle of life, which is technically what Levante also stands for. I mean, the three pillars. We are very, very clear on our view Vegan, because we believe no animal needs to be killed in the name of fashion. We're ethical because we believe that our workers have the right to correct wages as a great working conditions. And we are sustainable because we believe we all have a responsibility to reduce the amount of waste in the world. So that's what our pillars are. So I'm coming back to your question. It took us two years to get the process of the right fabrics because now we use a bunch of vegetable leather, we use apple leather, we use premium. The other recycled materials are premium Bluestar, Vegan leather. So we have a couple of combinations. [00:12:37] And the second part of your question was what? Remind me again, Patricia. [00:12:44] It was just that. It was when. How is it different as Europe as it would have been before in Europe? [00:12:52] Yeah. So basically, we took really classic styles which everyday women can take to the office and be proud to wear. And that's where we took Solomont. They makes a lot of classic fashion. So it's something you can wear on a regular day to work. You get married in the evening when you go out. We tend to do, you know, similar cuts. [00:13:14] But with beautiful Hardway, our our devil is in the detail. We pay a lot of attention to the hardware. Everything is custom made for us. And that's really what the lavonne, the woman and the Levante bag is. It's plastic. It's beautiful. It's sustainable. The insides are made from recycled plastic bottles. We put a little empowerment messages inside which are sustainability related in our women. Empower empowerment related because I think these women have a tough enough. [00:13:41] We need some, you know, really. Go, go, go. Kind of our empowerment messages as well. And that all comes from me because I guess that's a part of what I stand for and what the brand stands for, really. [00:13:57] And that's what I want women to enjoy. Just having these really beautiful pieces that they go into work in the office or just a regular day out. [00:14:06] Absolutely. I'm interested. Stella McCartney is probably the most famous handbag designer from the UK that I see most in the United States, particularly on the West Coast where I'm currently located. And I am an avid fan of Stella. For those people who follow me on Instagram, they know that I can't I can't get enough. I think it's nearing an addiction standpoint of Stella. But I'm curious with what your data says, what is your acceptance and popularity and growth in the United States with Labonte in London? [00:14:41] That's a great question, Patricia. So Stella has been doing this a lot longer than us. And I will come back to the US part of the question in my second half of my answer. So originally, I'd like to sort of talk about the UK because that's where the brand was born. And just so that, you know, we've been part of the fixing fashion bill, one which was discussed by the Fabio network, which is a think tank for the UK government to encourage the UK government to take more stands to help sustainable businesses in the United Kingdom. So I have been a part of that. And I will also tell you that, I mean, I was asked by those ladies to join that network. It was along with members of parliament, with the curator of of BNA Museum and quite a few of the fashion sustainable CEOs. [00:15:34] And I was asked to that conference and that fixing fashion bill only because our handbags are more excessively priced than the other brands in the market. Because what I was also told that which I didn't realize, which with me make complete sense in retrospect, is that not everybody can afford these expensive brands. The idea is to have a larger group of people wearing sustainable cruelty free bags, but which are also accessible pricing. And that really had hit home to me because I was inadvertently really trying to do that for quite a long time. But she put it in such beautiful words and really made me feel very happy because I'd really worked really hard to make such a beautiful, you know, a really expensive, sustainable product and pretty much charge what I think is a very fair price for such a sustainable product. And I think it's very important for us. And then the second part of the question is about the popularity in the US. I think that's a great question. Be launched in America late December, twenty eighteen, January twenty nineteen. So we've only been going in the states industry for a year and a few months, given Koban ninety nine. [00:16:52] I have to say the response from America has been great. We have now stockists in the States. We're going to be part of QVC next big find and we're going to be launching on QVC on our 200 million home in America. In August this year. So what I would be very happy to tell you maybe in a month or two is a very well-known brand in the States. But I would like to say. But just a month away. [00:17:19] Yeah, I know a lot of designers kind of it's up there on their Everest. You know, it's Europe has like this great ability to share in film and information about designers. [00:17:29] All of my girlfriends in Dublin are aware of the latest Greek designer or Italian designers. But finally, you know, kind of permeating the United States is is it tends to change people's growth factors a great deal just for the sheer scale of people. I like the idea that you kind of attach and not kind of directly attach sustainability and accountability, environmentalism with your brand. And so, you know, an individual carrying one of your handbags is certainly attached to your brand and to those ideals. Do you find it difficult to make that connection or do you feel like when someone hits your website and experiences what it is and realizes that it's a Vegan handbag made with recycled plastic, plastic lining and things of that nature that it's already implied? Or do you spend a great deal of time educating people to those facts? [00:18:21] I think that's a great question. We hope that our Web site does educate our customers because our customers do appreciate and know that they are buying into a sustainable Reagen product. Now, the only part that we think we need to do a better job of is to bring in the people who are not Vegan minded but are sustainable minded as well, because they need to understand that there is a core relation and we hit all the sweet spot. So that's one point, which I think is something that we've really been trying to tackle as to how we can communicate that better. [00:18:54] Yeah, absolutely. That's a. A key connection, too. And I like that you guys are doing it. I'm wondering about growth, about future growth. Surely you have a one to three year plan and surely over the past four months that one to three, your plan has changed with the dial up covered 19 pandemic. [00:19:12] It sounds like QVC to hit. That is going to be an incredible marker of change. But do you have other things on your horizon? Do you have more products that you're designing, things of that nature for the next one to three years? [00:19:25] Absolutely, Patricia. I'm glad you asked me that. [00:19:28] So 19 has obviously made a huge impact on all the retailers business plans. But we still what we are doing is that we have not we're not slowing down, but we're very now strategically placing our products so that we're introducing new collection, slow and steady, much slower than what we would have done without the Koven 19. So that's been a way of just, you know, still getting feeling the market, making sure that we're still on the right fit. But the good news is because our products are affordable, customers are still coming back to us. And that's what's great, especially now that the economies are opening back up. But yes, we're introducing our apple leather collection for fall this year, which is going to be made, which is made from apple core and apple skin, apple waste. And it's completely biodegradable. We're also introducing men's laptop bags. So we're trying to improve the product categories. And a lot of men shop on our Web sites for their or for their better halves. And we think it's a great way to get them into that opportunity to buy sustainable as well. And of very soon, we're going to be looking at introducing leather jackets and then gradually drawing this. Absolutely. [00:20:40] Yeah. I've wondered how long a line the line apparel would come because you've got your hands so deeply entrenched in these, you know, alternative leathers that have been brilliant in coming out over the past five years. I'm curious, as a designer, I know that you probably keep, you know, your ear to the line as to trends and things like that. Do you think that some of the more major and luxurious brands will start coming out with Vegan alternatives to their bags, or do you think they'll still just hold that old guard? I don't know of anyone who thinks that wearing leather or buying a leather handbag is sustainable or friendly anymore. You know, I think people do it for ideas of durability and all of these old guard arguments. But I'm wondering if you think that some of the traditional brands will start to kind of bow down to the idea of sustainability and Vegan alternatives. [00:21:30] I think, Patricia, some of the older I would say, what's the right word, old luxury old luxury brands like maybe Louis Vuitton would not do it. But I think I've already seen in Macy's, Calvin Klein do it and they write the Vegan option. [00:21:48] But it's very interesting because buyers because we're stocked in stores now and buyers have given me feedback, is that they don't know if a brand, which is generically a leather brand, actually understands the nuances of producing a Vegan bag and a sustainable bag. So they will probably call something Vegan just because they do not use animal skin on the outer element. But there is a lot of nuances which go into Vegan bag, including having Vegan free glue, animal cruelty free glue into the eyes of reinforcements. We check every single part of that item, which every small Hotan and small hardware like a nail in the bottom of the bag. We know where it's coming from and what's gone in it. Let me put it that way. So that level of detail is not something every brand can do. So, yes, you can go ahead and buy this Vegan bag from this generic leather brand, but you generally don't know what you're getting. At least I know it works as a brand. [00:22:49] And if you put that in perspective, which is a purely Vegan sustainable brand, because then you know that the PWI Vegan, they've got all these certifications there. We sort of signed documents that none of our products are going to contain any animal animal products. [00:23:06] So with your sustainability activism, do you get into that playing into the manufacturing arm as well with Levante London, where are you manufacturing and how do you kind of safeguard some of those practices? [00:23:21] I think on the sustainability element, what we do is we actually know where our suppliers are getting the fabrics from and we have all of that certified. We've gone and pretty much landed up at headquarters and said, OK, this is what we need, this level of certification. So that's the level of detail that has gone into it. So absolutely, when you say that is the sustainability part sort of featured into your production process, a lot of that has been so everything comes from a nominated supplier. So, for example, when a factory is manufacturing, they cannot actually just get one of our fabrics or anything from any supplier, from anything which looks similar. They actually have to show us invoices of that. It's come from our database of suppliers. So everything is is really detailed, that level. [00:24:10] That's wonderful. Are there conventions or any opportunities for you to get together with other Vegan or vegetarian lines based out of the UK or in Europe, the United Kingdom? [00:24:21] It kind of reaches our borders where you can kind of caucus with these individuals and share ideas and incentives and things of that nature. Is that kind of in the distant future? [00:24:30] I think that's actually even the very near future. And that's something which actually I don't know how you got this insight information. But we're actually looking at doing that quite quickly because as the need for sustainable cruelty free brands grows, it makes sense to start getting everybody have a dialog, come together and show ourselves as one enough unified front where a lot of consumers can have an auction and understand that this is this is regulated. This is you know, this is a common platform where like minded brands and like minded brands are available. So this is something it's actually a work in progress and it's something we're looking to rule out relatively quickly. [00:25:09] That's exciting. I can't wait to hear. I think great things come when people share information and best. Absolutely. [00:25:16] You know, and I think that the old days of the competition scaring those things, those kinds of practices offer gone. So I looked at the collaboration of minds and things that come from it. Well, you know, we are out of time. Vanita. But I want to say thank you so much for giving us your time today and talking with us about Libonati, London. Your line. I think the product is beautiful and exquisite. I encourage everyone to get on and have a look at it. The hardware and things, I haven't seen them in person, but I can imagine when people, you know, kind of tell it something about their products. I find it to be true because otherwise everyone's going to discover otherwise. And I really do appreciate you coming on and enumerating all of these different areas and details about what it is to have like this Vegan product handbag line. [00:26:00] Thank you so much for your show, for having me, it's been such a pleasure. [00:26:03] Absolutely. And for everyone listening. I have been speaking with Vanita Badlani. She is an activist, entrepreneur, CEO and founder of Labonte, a London. [00:26:12] You can find her products and more information about her brand and her philosophy on Labonte dot com. That is L.A. b a n t e dot com. [00:26:21] Until we speak again next time. Thank you for giving me your time. Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am speaking with Ariel Garten. Ariel is probably one of the most interesting people you will meet. She is a psychotherapist, Neuroscientist, mom, former fashion designer, and the female founder and visionary of an amazing and highly successful tech start-up Muse. Muse tracks your brain during meditation to give you real-time feedback on your meditation, guiding you into the “zone” and solving the problem most of us have when starting a meditation practice. Muse lets you know when you are doing it right. When Ariel is not reading brains (literally) or investing in, inspiring and advising other start-ups and women in biz, you can find her on stages across the world, from TED to MIT to SXSW. She inspires people to understand that they can accomplish anything they want by learning what goes on in their own mind. Ariel is also the co-host of the Untangle Podcast.   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.    TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:07] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series will contain interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their perspective. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts, regardless of age, status or industry. We intend to transparently investigate the evolving global dialog regarding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad by hosting these stories and conversations. We aim to contribute to the changing platform and representation of these individuals for the future. If you're enjoying this podcast series, be sure to check out our subsequent series called Roundtable with Patricia Kathleen, where we talk with a panel of guests regarding key topics that arise in these individual interviews. You can subscribe to all of our podcast series on iTunes, Stitcher or Pod Bean, as well as our Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com. And you can also contact me directly via this Web site or through my media Web site. Wild dot agency. That's w i. L. D e dot agency. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:30] My time will be off to the races.   [00:01:38] I said your name right? Ariel, Garten.   [00:01:40] You did. You're actually like the only person ever. So great job.   [00:01:45] I wonder if my little mermaid like, The Little Mermaid with Ariel. Is that how people like to say it?   [00:01:52] People say air-i-el. I say you say r-e-el, which is the right way, but nobody ever does it.   [00:01:57] So, yay, I'm glad. OK.   [00:02:00] Make sure. Yes. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am sitting down with Ariel Garten. Ariel is the founder of Muse, which is a tech startup, a device that gives you Real-Time feedback during and post meditation. You can locate it online at w w w dot. Choose News dot com. Welcome, Ariel.   [00:02:23] Thank you, Patricia.   [00:02:23] It is a joy to be here. I am excited to climb through what you're doing. I'm really excited to have you on today for everyone listening. I will read a brief bio on Ariel.   [00:02:32] Before I do that, though, a quick roadmap of today's podcast will follow the trajectory that all of those in these series do. Namely, we will first unpack oriels academic and brief professional life so that we have a basis of a platform understanding where she came to developing news. Then we will look at unpacking news and the device. What it does, the data that it captures will also get into the nuts and bolts of her enterprise, which is the who, what, when, where, why and how. For all of you entrepreneurs out there, you guys like to hear about founders ship funding. We'll get into all of those logistics and then we'll turn our efforts towards looking at the ethos and kind of the philosophy behind the company. Then we will look towards goals that Orio might have towards the next one to three years. How she's kind of reconceptualizing goals, though, that dialog has changed for a lot of you. Given the recent pandemic, and it's interesting to hear for all of us about that change, and then we will wrap everything up with advice that RTL might have for those of you who want to get involved in what she's doing and perhaps emulate some of her career success. So a quick bio on Orio before I start peppering her with questions. Ariel Garten is probably one of the most interesting people you will meet. She is a psychotherapist, neuroscientist's mom, former fashion designer, and the female founder and visionary of an amazing and highly successful tech startup Muse. News tracks your brain during meditation to give you real time feedback on your meditation, guiding you into the zone and solving problem most of us have when starting a meditation practice. Mused, Let's you know when you are doing it right? When Orio is not reading brains literally or investing in inspiring and advising other tech startups and women and bears, you can find her on stages across the world, from Ted to M.I.T. to south by Southwest. She inspires people to understand that they can accomplish anything they want by learning what goes on in their own mind. Oriol is also the co-host of the Untangled podcast. So Orio, I want to climb through all of that. You have such a prolific history and and what isn't in your bio that I do know from our research is that you have even more history on the back end before Muse was in two realities. I'm hoping right now you can unpack some of your professional and academic background to develop like your own personal platform.   [00:04:57] Sure. So my whole life, I've been kind of split between arts and sciences when I was a teenager in high school. I excelled at the arts. I excelled at sciences. I had a job in a research lab doing embryonic stem stem cell research on knockout mice in the 90s. And I also had a tiny clothing line that I sold on consignment to stores in downtown Toronto where I lived. So I was always kind of parlaying between the world of art and the world of science. And back in the 90s, people would say, well, you can't be an artist and a scientist. You have to choose. You can't do both. And when I went to school, when I went to university, I chose to go for neuroscience because I felt like if you went to arts, you couldn't go back into the sciences yet to continue on with the sciences and then keep doing the arts on the side. So in university, I studied neuroscience at the University of Toronto. I also had an art gallery that I ran. And then as soon as I graduated, I opened a clothing store in basically the front of my house. I was just like, OK, I need to do this clothing thing because I've done the science thing for four years. Yeah. I then continued to work in research labs part time while I ran a clothing line that what I was selling across North America and a store retail store in downtown Toronto. All of this being entirely unable to sew. So it's like I'll just start a clothing line, even though I've no idea how to sew. But I love fashion and I can figure it out. And my family business was very, very small scale real estate. So I was also helping out the family business at the same time. So I was had these multiple career trajectories going simultaneously. I was fascinated by all of them and always kind of felt like I could do what ever I put my mind to.   [00:06:44] So in my mid 20s, I started collaborating with Dr. Steve Mann. He's one of the inventors, the wearable computer. And he had an early brain computer interface system. I began working in his laboratory, working on basically concerts that you made with your mind. These artistic endeavors with real scientific information from the brain and really started to marry. My art and science approached the world. And from there, I became inspired to take this technology that was letting you literally interact with the world directly with your brain.   [00:07:18] It was a brain computer interface and try to take it to market and create my own business. And that's how myself and my two co-founders, Chris Emeny and Trevor Coleman, created news.   [00:07:29] Fantastic.   [00:07:30] So you have two co-founders that kind of dropped us into the next question that I have, which is the top three tiers of logistics, which is co-founders funding and year you launched.   [00:07:43] So I started working in Steve's lab in 2000 to 2002, 2003. And in those early days, we were creating concerts using this early brain computer interface system. And I began collaborating at that point with Chris. Amy. Chris was Steve's master's student. And he was just the most brilliant engineer you could ever meet. And also had an incredible understanding about humanity and art and the soul. And so as I started to think that this technology could come out of the lab, I got together with him as the CTO, the company. And Trevor Coleman, who is my boyfriend at the Times, best friend. And the three of us founded Muz. But before founding Muse, we spent many years playing around and Trevor's basement and in Steve's laboratory, figuring out what this technology could do. And so probably 2007, we really agreed that, yes, reforming a startup. In 2009, we incorporated and had our first big project, which was at the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics. We the first funding that we had came in twenty twelve I reck. I was the CEO of the company and recognized that we would need to raise funds. We got paid for Olympics projects. We were able to bootstrap for many years. And when we started to raise funding, I went out first to New York that Boston, San Francisco to raise funds and ultimately probably. Or first. Yeah. First round is four million dollars from FEC in New York. And our very first investor was actually Chad Menteng, who was at that point. Google's jolly good fellow. He was the guy who started Google's meditation program. Also search inside yourself. Since then, yes, it was amazing. So since then, we've raised I personally raised eighteen point two million dollars as the CEO of the company from, I guess, 2012 until 2015. In 2015, I stepped down from maternity leave and brought in another CEO. And to date, the company's raised probably around 30 million dollars.   [00:09:54] Wow, that is amazing. What round are you guys on? Moving into Runcie. Brilliant. That's amazing.   [00:10:01] I mean, and it's it's an incredible. I think there are a lot of people that get to a certain position and phase out, particularly with that kind of longevity in a career. You know, you can kind of very few founders anymore kind of staying on and hanging around past that point. I'm wondering, in the beginning when you said you were going to I don't know if it was trade shows or in 2009 or 2012 when you started kind of getting out there. What was the gradual change of the product or was there a story like how did it you know, companies grow with funding traditionally on a lot of different levels. But I'm interested in before we describe the product of it as it is now, the device.   [00:10:44] What was the original product or device like?   [00:10:48] So this is pretty funny. Originally, we started with a technology and a technology that was in search of a solution. So we had this device that let you put an electrode on the back of your head. And by focusing or relaxing, you could change some element, sound, light, etc.. So initially we thought we were going to go after a thought controlled computing. As you shifted your brain state, it would allow you to control the lighting in a room or control, you know, a cursor on a computer screen. And we did a lot of demos and experiences showing people that you could literally shift your brain state and make music or brighten a light. The project that we did at the Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics let people in Vancouver control the lights on the and tower Canadian prime buildings and Niagara Falls with their brain from across the country. So we had tens of thousands of people literally interacting with the lighting on these massive icons with their mind. So when we came off the Olympics, we were on a high. And we're like, we can do anything we want. Yeah, we just succeeded at the Olympics. And so we went on to try to thought control everything. We made like a thought controlled toaster and which was really stupid. But it was a fun trick and a thought controlled beer tab, which is awesome to have at Christmas parties, but not really useful in real life. You'd focus on it. It would pour. You would relax or clarity. It would stop pouring. We made all sorts of great thought control, things like, you know, trying to grasp. But what is it that we're really going to do with this? And that's when we sort of had that light bulb moment that it wasn't about letting people control the world outside then. It was about the fact that this technology could actually show you what was going on in your own mind and give you real time feedback on your brain. Because as we were teaching people to focus and relax so that they could, you know, make a light bulb go brighter. What we're really doing was taking these internal states that were intangible and making them tangible and visible, showing you when you're focused, showing you when you're relaxed and doing so, essentially giving you BuYeo or neurofeedback to teach your brain and body to do that more. And that's when we kind of had the recognition that this was going to be most useful for the world as a meditation tool, because meditation is this amazing activity that is so powerful for you. But most people don't really know how to do it, and they're not good at it, per say, because you don't know what's going on in your mind. And there's nobody showing you what's going on in your mind and telling you when you're in the right zone and when you're not. And we have technology that could really do that.   [00:13:22] Well, there is a year when I feel like there was a year, it may have been a couple of years or a day, but where Silicon Valley began leading this or Silicon Valley like areas started leading this charge where they had meditation rooms developed in Google, you know, places like that where it felt like it took meditation out of this Eastern philosophy yogi realm and placed it like squarely into like productivity. Corporate America like this is now like a break room moment. And I'm wondering when your device when it switched over into, like, focusing on the meditation and inward movements and recognition moment and how well that paralleled with you think the industry kind of accepting this new form of meditation being just as important for productivity and things like that in the workplace as a break.   [00:14:14] We were so lucky. We completely followed that curve. So, as I mentioned, our first investor in 2012 was Chad Menteng, the guy who literally made Google's meditation program before 2012 when somebody would ask us what we were building. We felt like we had to say it was a cognitive trainer and are really like our early das. Our early pitches all had pictures of brains with like big muscles on them. Going like this is going to make your mind strong. It'll help you focus. And then people would do the demo. And on rare occasions I would be asked, like, is this meditation? And we'd be like, Do you like meditation? Yes, I meditate. I would be like, it is meditation. Just don't tell anyone. I was like, you know, we whispered background conversation. And then over time, I think for us, what I really kind of count is the tipping point was meditation being on the cover of Time magazine. It was around 2013. There was a photo of a woman on the cover of Time magazine, and Tom got in trouble because it was a very, you know, white woman doing this. But she was sitting there with his eyes closed and the lotus position meditating. And that, to me, really marked the moment when the world took notice. And all of a sudden you had big CEOs meditating and athletes meditating and celebrities talking about it. And then the you know, first the kind of vanguard corporate meditators like Google and then the slow trickle of every company having a meditation program that they'd offer to their staff. And we just, by chance, were entirely in tune with that wave and were able to capitalize on it from 2012 moving forward.   [00:15:53] Yeah, that auspicious. Right.   [00:15:56] I mean, I think it would have done well without. But like I said, when you mentioned into cognitive training and things like that, I think that's esoteric and confusing as well. You know, and it's funny when you have to fight against terms like that just to kind of make sure that you're alleviating communication gaps or bigotries. It's fun to kind of look at those things. So now let's get into the device. Let's talk about its structure. I mean, for everyone who's looking to get a picture of it, obviously, if you jump on w choose News.com, you're going gonna get some of that. But if you can kind of describe for everyone listening right now briefly where it sits, what it looks like and how it outlook as an experience as a user. I come to your house. I sit down. We put this thing on me. What's going on?   [00:16:40] So news is basically like a Fitbit for your brain. So it's a slim little headband that sits on your head and it tracks your brain activity during meditation and gives you Real-Time feedback to know when you're focused and when your mind is wandering. So you slip on the news. It would connect to an app on your phone. You'd plug in your headphones. And then as you meditated, you'd be able to hear the sound of your mind through guiding sounds. And the metaphor we use is your mind is like the weather. So when you're thinking or distracted, you hear it as stormy and as you come to quite focused attention, it quiets the storm. So you're getting Real-Time feedback, letting you know when your mind is wandering and killing you back into the meditation zone and then reinforcing you for staying there, reinforcing you to that state of calm.   [00:17:27] Then after the fact, you get data, charts, graphs, scores, things that show you what your brain was doing moment to moment and really help you track the progress of your practice.   [00:17:37] Yeah, it is exactly like a Fitbit, and it's exciting.   [00:17:40] I mean, it it almost just lends to I don't know if it's the human mind or the American human mind or the entrepreneurial mind, but I already when you pitch it that way or when you describe it, I start thinking, oh, I get into training it more. I have areas I want to tap into immediately. It's like this, you know, nice little green pill that I could, like, do something and take and like focus and train or even like a muscle and focus on that. Do you find that people immediately, the people who congregate towards the idea are those that want to tap into certain resources in their brains most quickly? Or is it just the curiosity?   [00:18:17] A people come from both directions. So, you know, people who are performance oriented obviously love the performance aspect of it that you can measure and through measure improving.   [00:18:26] There are people who are very experienced meditators and they come at this more from the perspective of being a consciousness explore, of understanding the process of the mind, of being able to hone the observation of the mind through a new year on their internal state. So there's lots of different experiences that people get out of it. The app is completely customizable, so you can either use the Real-Time feedback during your experience or you can turn off all the feedback and just after the fact, see what your brain was doing through your own silent meditation. We also started with the brain and now have sensors for the heart, the breath and the body so you can hear the sound of your heart like the beating of a drum and be able to track its increases and decreases and really learn your heart's rhythms. You can find stillness in your body and track your movement. There's breath patterns and now there's also hundreds and hundreds of guided meditations that you can use along with the device to actually track your brain, heart, breath and body during your guided meditations as well.   [00:19:29] And are those developed by ever in in collaboration with your company Muse?   [00:19:34] Yeah. So we have dozens of top teachers from all around the world who build meditations for performance, stress, anxiety. We have a cancer collection that males currently testing for finding morning joy for sleep and on and on.   [00:19:50] Nice. What is so I want to you have a topic that you've addressed in the past and I kind of want you to enumerate on for our audience. What is the the mindset of an entrepreneur like it?   [00:20:03] How does that relate to the collection of the data that you've looked at? That's a fascinating question.   [00:20:10] So the mindset of an entrepreneur is different than the mindset of an average individual. And the mindset of an entrepreneur has to be one that A is willing to handle a whole lot of risk and B, is able to have emotional flexibility because being an entrepreneur, you have so many demands on you. And a lot of those are emotional demands. You know, you're you're at the high of success. You're at the low of your business crashing or at the moment before funding. So you need to be able to navigate all those smoothly. And you are typically not afraid in the same ways that other people are afraid that this goes back to the risk piece. So one of the things that I noticed in myself with the mindset of an entrepreneur was that I really believed I would be able to accomplish what ever I wanted. And, you know, occasionally I'd have thoughts that came and come into my mind, like we all do it, like, oh, that's gonna be too hard. You're not good enough. You know, somebody will judge you for it. But I was very easily able to overcome those thoughts. Was variable easily. Is able to say you're just a thought. That doesn't matter. I'm not going to let that hold me back. And I was able to move out into the world without really being held back by a fear that something wouldn't work without being held back by the thoughts in my own mind. I think that's a that's a fundamental feature of entrepreneurs, because the people who aren't entrepreneurs are the people who have a great idea and then just get overwhelmed by the thought of doing it, get bogged down in the feelings that it will work, get held back and not knowing what to do next.   [00:21:47] Yeah. And it doesn't work. We'll just move with it.   [00:21:49] So how would an entrepreneur. Most quickly utilize Muse? What would be, you think, one of the first steps of using it? Is it just articulating areas that they could tap into through meditation?   [00:22:01] Or what do you think, given, you know, the dialog you just created about the entrepreneurial personality and mindset? How would it be most beneficial or collaborated with using Muse right off the bat?   [00:22:14] Sure. So we have literally hundreds and hundreds of entrepreneurs that use Muse and top CEOs and CEOs will buy them for, you know, their top executives and muse together. So it's it's something that entrepreneurs have really tapped into. So one of the reasons is the idea that the thoughts in your head don't need to govern how you live. So most of us just have the thoughts in our head and we assume that they're supposed to be there, like this isn't gonna work out or I'm not good enough for, you know, this is gonna be too big for me. We just assume that that's the truth, because that's a thought in your head. As an entrepreneur, you learn how to move your mind away from those thoughts and overcome them by taking actions. And that's a big part of what Muse teaches you to do, Muse, cuz you when your thoughts are wandering and then gives you a cue to say, hey, you don't need to follow that thought, you can come back and focus on the thing in front of you.   [00:23:04] You can move your mind away from that and focus instead on something you care about or the task in front of you. So it helps you shift into that mindstate of possibility and lets you move out of your negative thoughts and into a neutral space. And it also significantly increases your productivity because every time your thoughts wander away, that's a little procrastination. That's a micro distraction. With music, get very good at saying like no distraction, back to focus, distraction, back to focus. And then on the emotional piece. What meditation teaches you to do is to ride your emotions without getting bogged down by them. So you might, you know, have just lost a big deal and you might, you know, feel a lot of emotion in your body. And what you learned to do with meditation is to observe that emotion, you know, see the sensations and feel the sensations that it brings in your body without ramping the thought cycle in your head. It's not like, oh, my God, I just lost that deal. Oh, my God, I feel terrible. Whoa, that's really bad. And cycle cycle down with meditation. You. You observe the sensations without getting sucked into the feelings in a way that's going to drag you down with a negative feedback loop between thought, feeling, thought, feeling, thoughts, feeling. So as an entrepreneur, it becomes an incredibly valuable tool to ride through the lows and to let yourself relish the highs.   [00:24:25] And I'm interested about the feedback that it provides through the app and collect collecting that data. What would the average user do with that feedback? Does it help growth? I mean, if you have the cues on obviously there should be some in the moment change and, you know, change of of mental status. But I'm wondering, accumulating that feedback. Do you see how quickly you are able to return to focus and meditation? What what would someone apply the feedback to and what all is collected?   [00:24:57] Sure.   [00:24:58] So when you do a mind meditation, what you're looking at is the times when your mind has wandered in the times and you return and. We celebrate the ability to notice that your mind has wandered and to return back to a place of focused attention and calm.   [00:25:15] We also reinforce and celebrate staying in that calm spot. So it's OK that your mind wanders all of our minds. Do what you want to do. Say like, nope, I'm going to come back to focus. And what you end up seeing over time is a graph that starts looking really jagged. You've got lots of distractions and your mind's bouncing all over the place. And as you progress in your practice, that curve gets smoother and smoother and lower and lower as you're spending more and more time and focus calm. So when you look back to your graphs, you can identify the things that trigger you, the kinds of thoughts that distract you or the sounds that might have been in your environments. You can become very aware of your internal state and you can also really acutely see your progress over time. And you can then also see, you know, OK, this was a great meditation today. What was I doing differently? What what does this mean? How do I reinforced this in the future? Yeah. With the heart meditation you're actually seeing when your heart rate increases and decreases moment by moment and you're learning the things that will get your heart to speed up, things that cause you stress and anxiety and things that get your heart to slow down. And by seeing the patterns of your heart, you learn the kind of relaxation and breathing patterns that get you into optimal HRB and an optimal, beautiful, smooth, sinusoidal rhythm and allow you to relax your body more effectively.   [00:26:33] Right. And when you say that I picture things that I'm more than likely, everyone listening has had glimpses into either the Buddhist monk that was hooked up to electrodes that kept, you know, his heart rate at a certain way, or the deep sea diver who she was, you know, controlling heart rate so that she could dove deeper and things like that. Is that kind of the area that you're headed towards in this kind of lowering of the heart rate or raising it back up? Is it this mind body connection and control?   [00:26:59] Yes. So you learn you learn that mind body connection and that mind body connection is called interception. It's the ability to sensitively understand your internal state. And there's studies that demonstrate that people who have improved interception actually have less stress because you're much more able to sensitively understand where your body is at. Check in on your body.   [00:27:21] And then if you notice stress, tension, increased heart rate, say, hey, I have an exercise that I've learned like a breathing exercise or guided meditation that I know will bring me back to that state of calm. So we start to become master self regulators, noticing where we're at. Having a set of tools to use at that moment, applying them and then shifting into the state that we choose to be in.   [00:27:42] Yeah. I love that. It's perfect master self regulators. You know, that's the call. I think the key right to everything. I'm sure nobody hears that and doesn't think that sounds fantastic. I'm wondering, you you talk a little bit in in some of your the numerous different speaking engagements you've had about how to be empowered in your own mind. And I you know that it's that's a beautiful statement, but it's more a theory than practical, you know, engagement for me. And I'm wondering, since this is kind of tying into that idea of being master over over one's own mind, body relationship, if you can kind of enumerate further on what you feel the empowerment to be empowered in one's own mind looks like in reality, like some of the benefits beyond being able to connect with stress and therefore lower it. You know that the mind body connection. But even further than that, some of the the practicality of what that looks like.   [00:28:41] Sure. So being empowered in your own mind to me means not being at the behest of the crazy thoughts that you consume most of us. Much of the time, you know, most of us just go through our lives with our brain generating a bunch of content in there that often makes us feel unhappy, like we're not good enough. Like things aren't good enough.   [00:29:03] And generally, you know, frustrated, not feeling great. Our brain is constantly telling us that makes us feel things that make us feel a little bit shitty. And frankly, there is no reason for that to be the, you know, existence of your life. There's no reason it needs to be that way. What you learn in meditation is to change your relationship with your thoughts. So rather than being sucked in by them and just listening to all the stuff it tells you and assuming that that's what you need to hear, you actually learn that you can rise above your thoughts. You can create metacognition, you can observe them, and you can make choices about where your brain goes. You can make choices about the contents of your own mind. And when you start to do that, you can now start to orient yourself towards the positive. You can now shut down those negative narratives that weren't serving you. You can now begin to recognize that the narratives that you had about yourself probably aren't true. And you can choose new narratives. It becomes an incredibly. Liberating way to live. And as you start to make better choices about the contents of your own mind, your body follows suit. You start to sort of shut down the negative narratives that keep you small and frustrated. You start opening yourself up to freedom and joy and possibility and the emotional experiences that come with it. And meditation, taking you out of your head and putting you in the present moment really brings an aliveness to your life, to the things that are right in front of you and the things that that are here and real rather than the problems that we worry about that probably will never happen. And so it's it's an incredibly empowered place to be.   [00:30:47] Yeah.   [00:30:48] And when you said, you know, and change the relationship with your own thoughts, a piece of me, I felt like a piece of that was a description or about as rather a piece of a description of happiness, you know, of the human condition to be had to change the relationship with your own thoughts is to change ones that are in disparate nature or causing discomfort. And so to change that back into something, it sounds like a control over one's unhappiness, which is exciting to the human condition.   [00:31:19] You know, across the globe, I think I don't think that's just approaches one particular genre of person, though. I'm sure that there are many that utilize it better than others. But changing the relationship with your own thoughts is is a power that I think a lot of people come to when they start meditation and don't realize that will be one of the benefits.   [00:31:37] You know, it's yeah, it's an extraordinary power. It makes such a difference in your life. You know, most of us are living in self created jails in our own mind, getting caught up in thoughts that truly create our own suffering. And it just doesn't need to be that way.   [00:31:55] Yeah. Who are the clients that that muse has so far reached? You talked about CEOs and people that are really looking at it, as you know. I mean, one of your a jolly good fellow. You know, he's he's brought it up with the Google meditation and stuff like that. But, um, who else do you have industries or populations that have really tapped into being clients? And who do you see it going towards next?   [00:32:18] Sure. So there are literally hundreds of thousands of people that use Muse regularly. And it's from, you know, moms and just awesome everyday people to corporate. So as I mentioned, you know, what CEOs do with their exact we have corporate programs in healthcare. So we have over 200 studies that have been done with Muse, both as a meditation tool and as a clinic. Great. E.g.. So we have a whole hospital systems that have been engaged in testing news. Mayo Clinic has written papers on breast cancer patients awaiting surgery using news. We have thousands of doctors and clinicians that recommend it to their patients. Oh, in an athlete's pro golfers, skaters, footballers, Olympic soccer teams, Olympic swimmers like really quite across the board. So we've we've been we've been very, very lucky that both from just average people who want to learn how to meditate to really top experts. All have been able to find value in the tool.   [00:33:27] Definitely. And I I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't be able to find value in it. Even children, you know, young not children, but adolescents and people who are just learning to have that dialog. I think that there's such an opportunity there with young minds that people don't necessarily look at. And to that end. I'm wondering how young the youngest age group that, you know, that studies with Muse have been done on?   [00:33:52] So Muse used to be able to be used for anybody, but now we are GDPR compliant, which is Europe's privacy standard. So we say Muse is not for anybody under 16. Certainly, I've seen no photos of people using Muse of their very young children, though, according to label. It's not not not not till over 16. There have been studies done using Muse in schools. The Denver school board did one. Kansas State University did a study of grade eight students using news, and they saw a 72 percent decrease in kids being sent to the principal's office after using use in their classroom.   [00:34:28] Yeah, and that's kind of what I was suspecting. You know, I think a lot about some of these different ailments that afflict children who tend to be disturbing in the classroom environment or group settings. And it's more just about the therapies applied to social therapies apply to these children are very much so the feedback that it sounds like news would provide. It's about being in touch with the thoughts and reading relationship with the thoughts, which we just clarified. And so that kind of feedback sounds like it will be instrumental. What is there when someone gets on? How much can they explore on your Web site? Like, what are the price points and how does one go about purchasing it? Where at what phase is all of that in?   [00:35:07] So Muse's in market and has been for since 2014. We now have. So we have two devices, Muse two, which gives you real time feedback on your heart, breath, body and brain during meditation. And then we have a new device that we just launched, which is Muse s one of the things that we noticed as people were using Muse before going to bed to help them sleep. And so we now built this beautiful purpose-built device that does all the same things as Muse two. And it also gives you guided meditations and Real-Time feedback in a way that's designed to help you fall asleep faster. So it's a very soft, comfortable band that you were in bed to help you fall asleep. And then we're building more and more sleep features that are going to be released over the next year. So Muse 2, is somewhere around two hundred and fifty bucks. And Muse S is somewhere around 350.   [00:35:59] Nice. So not going to break the bank. You know, I mean, not inexpensive. But for the feedback it's providing and given, can you use one device, I'm assuming for different family members or definitely individuals or does everyone. OK. So you can change application.   [00:36:15] Yes. So we typically see, you know, device. Mom brings the device home, dad starts using it. Kids start meditating. Now you have the whole family using the one device together.   [00:36:24] Absolutely. That's so exciting. I'm wondering to that. And given that you just came out with muse s. What goals does Muse have on the horizon between the next one to three years? And has there been any conversation of application between the global dialog about the pandemic and Muse, or has that kind of been something that it's just obviously addressing within the functionality of the device? Or has the company come out and kind of looked towards efforts as to have a dialog with that?   [00:36:51] Oh, we're definitely dialoging with it. So since the start of the pandemic, we've obviously seen a massive increase in Muse usage, both people purchasing new devices, buying them as gifts, and people who had Muse's really starting to use them very, very regularly. And so we're really looking to how we can build more support and content to help support pandemic specifically. We have a collection of actually free content available to anyone called our S.O.S. Com collection with guided meditations for dealing with uncertainty, working at home, cetera.   [00:37:28] And then we also have monthly challenges that we run with both users and nonusers where you can be guided through a week of support on a particular topic focused around coalbed. So it might be finding peace working from home. Kofman the mind and uncertain times, etc..   [00:37:48] That's fascinating.   [00:37:49] That's a great idea to a monthly challenge, you know, focused around things that are particularly found within it. That's an interesting take on it. I think that a lot of people have tried to get there but haven't quite gotten there with a lot of their business endeavors. Monthly challenges are interesting. And are there any other goals for with the company has that is aside from the covered conversation? Are you guys going to come out with new models? What areas are you reaching further into? I feel like and this might be incredibly naive, but like diet and certain things that are affecting, you know, that the greater health and relationships certainly would be kind of this trickle down effect that would happen when being in conversation with one's own thoughts and their thought relationship. But has there been any movement towards, like diet and exercise or using it, showing people the utility of using it and other major areas of their life?   [00:38:39] So on our podcast that I co-host with Patricia Karpas called Untangle, we approach questions like diet, relationships, etc. every single week with guests in those areas. So, you know, we try. Give you more information around how the brain and the mind work and how to kind of optimize them in relationship to all these topics. And then in our guided content, we also have content specific for different areas, performance, work from home. We've a mindful eating collection. We have lots of relationship collections. So we also try and the guidance to give you new insights, new tools to help with specific areas of your life. And then the thing that we're really diving into now is sleep, because people don't realize how fundamental sleep is and was.   [00:39:28] Sleep has really gotten disrupted. Also, as an entrepreneur, sleep gets disrupted as well because you sit there as you're falling asleep and you can't help but think about all of the problems of the day and the problems of tomorrow and that poor sleep and poor sleep hygiene and poor ability to fall asleep actually depresses your immune system and decreases your emotional self-regulation and cognitive function the next day.   [00:39:51] So for us, we're really looking at how we kind of help people optimize this 24 hour cycle, how you can fall asleep more effectively, stay asleep longer, have more restful sleep, and then be more cognitively and emotionally capable the next day. Do your meditation, you know, enhance them further, sleep well at night and feed forward. Absolutely.   [00:40:13] And it's key. I think Muz asks coming out sounds perfect. I mean, the populations that need sleep most are the ones that always receive it less. It's new parenting entrepreneurs, people making very heavy handed decisions. There was in 2005 a report came out that said the average American president and all of our history got about four hours a night.   [00:40:33] And it was like, no, I need them to get so much more than that. They've got very hands on the button.   [00:40:39] You know, it's a it was just daunting. These. The more important the position, the less sleep. And it was and it was a reverse dialog. It was in conversation to some of the most prolific people that they had discovered in the arts were these people that got massive amounts of sleep. Some of these founders that were coming out saying, I get like nine hours a night and I can't believe anybody wouldn't. And these were the people that were changing the world at the time. And it was this kind of dialog, a back and forth. The article was. But I think it's it's so crucial. Young parents, people like that, Warriors' in all places, you know, don't leave. You have to be the founder of a billion dollar company to be a wildly important individual. And those people in those high stress, high stakes environment are usually not getting sleep. And so I think that feedback is crucial. And I'm glad you brought up your podcast, because I'm wondering, I haven't had the opportunity to dove in and explore more. And so for everyone listening, join me in that endeavor. It's called Untangle. And I really want to climb into a little bit about that experience, how long it's been running. And also, do you bring users of Muse on to have like an actual conversation with a user?   [00:41:48] So the podcast actually started with Patricia Karpas. It was a podcast that she had started building. And when she joined our company as the head of content, I joined as the co-host. And we love doing it because we get to speak to experts, neuroscientists, meditators, top athletes, top artists and unpack the practices in their life that allow them to be effective. And my particular passion is talking to neuroscientists and through with them, unpacking how the brain works and then how we can use that knowledge and understanding the brain to be able to optimize our behavior and our functioning. It turns out that a fair number of the people I interview are users. You know, my my colleagues and peers and in neuroscience and in arts or athletics, they tend to actually also use music. And often I don't even know that.   [00:42:39] I interviewed B.J. Fogger, a top behaviorist, and when he got on the music, oh, my God, you make me use I'm like, oh, my God, you know that I made music crazy. And Dr. Stan Kotkin, he's a top relationship therapist. He was like, I love you. I'm like, oh, my God, you know what news is like? Yes, I use it every day. So it it ends up being kind of serendipitous and typically slightly embarrassing moment for me. I'm sitting here like, what am I supposed to wonder? But it's lovely.   [00:43:06] Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's exciting. I'm glad to know that. And I'm glad to know that you guys kind of interview people who you don't know have used it as well just to garner the information around it without this kind of marketing standpoint. And I look forward to getting on and I look forward to purchasing it because I'm sold. I'm all in. And I practice my station and I have for 10 years based on my spiritual following. So I I'm wholeheartedly looking to jump into this. I think it's important for people to understand that regardless of what you practice and how you do, you can always change your relationship with meditation. You know, there have been people who've meditated for 50 years that are constantly changing their relationship with it. And this device sounds like it could do that and should do that as well. I'm wondering if you can if you can answer our final question on this series is always one of my favorites and it's one that people usually think that they won't be able to answer.   [00:44:01] Perhaps, given that your life has been dedicated to research and and proffering up solutions, you'll be able to more easily than one often thinks. But if someone approached you tomorrow and it's important, we didn't get into it today. But you also have a lot of dialog about women in business. And I do want to ciAriele back around one day and pepper you with that, because that's the platform that we run a lot of our series off. Patricia Kathleen, podcasts. But if you were approached tomorrow by a woman or a female identified a non binary individual, essentially anyone other than a white CIS gendered man. And the person said, listen, I started my career off in this wonderful science and I've I've done a peripheral amount of work there. And I'm thinking about launching this new device, this tech device feedback company. So something remarkably similar, perhaps not identical to what you've done. But she was headed. They were headed that way. And they said, can you give me your top three pieces of advice? What would those top three pieces be?   [00:45:02] Knowing what you know now, sure, that's easy.   [00:45:06] So number one is you don't need to know everything. So I think as a founder or an entrepreneur, it can feel daunting when you start a business because you feel like, OK, well, I need to understand finance. I need in the case of my business, manufacturing, engineering, technology, neuroscience are logistics. There were so many pieces to this puzzle and I really only understood one piece. Got educated and learned myself several of those pieces like fundraising and being the CEO of a company, having ever worked in one myself. And then I was able to attract and hire individuals who knew how to do everything else.   [00:45:44] Experts in their own domain who understood manufacturing in China and logistics and customer care and whatever the role was. So tip number one is you really don't need to know everything. And frankly, there's very few things you do need to know because you can bring on the people that matter to do the job. Yeah. Number two is do not let your own thoughts of not being good enough or not accomplishing enough. Hold you back. We are all amazing capable creatures, but we are held back by the stories in our own mind. You know, the stories that say, oh, you know, we shouldn't take the risk because or people will think this of us or what if it just doesn't work out? And so it's normal for those thoughts to be there. But the person who becomes a successful entrepreneur is the person who is overall to able to overcome those thoughts, who is not held back by them, the person who takes the step and moves forward despite the thoughts and fears in their mind and body. And number three is lead with inspiration. So you may not know most of the things that you need to know to do this. Totally fine. But if you have an inspiring vision and you're able to articulate it and that inspiring vision is going to make the world better in some way, people will want to come along and join you and follow you and work with you and work for you and bring this vision to life together. So the most successful entrepreneurs are those that are able to see a vision that the world needs, that people agree is going to be good for the world and inspire people to come along with them.   [00:47:23] Nice. I love that. So I have. Don't. No one.   [00:47:29] You don't need to know everything. Number two, do not like negative thoughts. Hold you back. And number three, let lead with inspiration and let your vision inspire your audience. And I have to say that, as you said, those things as as silly or interesting as it sounds, I feel like if your device muse could speak, it would say that's exactly what it does. I think so. Yeah. I think that you've you've got the idea in tune and chip with what your craft and your knowledge have all developed in this embodiment of the device. And we are out of time today. But I really want to say I appreciate you taking the time.   [00:48:09] I know everyone is at once available and incredibly busy, you know, during this time of stay at home. And so I want to say thank you so much for all of your knowledge and time today.   [00:48:21] Thank you for the opportunity to share it. Much appreciated.   [00:48:24] Absolutely. And for those of you listening, we've been speaking with Ariel Garten. She's the founder of Muse. You can located at W w w dot Tewes Muse dot com.   [00:48:36] And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am speaking with Jane Elizabeth. Jane is a best selling author, personal trainer, empowerment coach, motivational speaker, athlete, and animal lover who has been active in the animal rescue community for over a decade. She went vegan for the animals two and a half years ago and has been an active advocate for veganism ever since. Key points addressed were  Jane’s book titled become a badass rebel runner We also discussed Jane’s personal journey from being obese to health and a vegan lifestyle as a long-distance runner, mother of a toddler, and coach This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with bestselling author, personal trainer, coach and Vegan athlete Jane Elizabeth. Key Points addressed where Jane's book titled Become a Bad Ass Rebel Runner. We also discussed Jane's personal journey from being obese to health and a Vegan lifestyle as a long distance runner, mother of a toddler and coach. Stay tuned for my inspirational talk with Jane Elizabeth. A quick technical note. We suffered some audio difficulties on our hosting end of Zoom. However, as the less than ideal audio is only suffered on the part of my questions and this portion of the podcast, DANZ is 25 percent of the interview. Our team made the decision to go up with this version rather than delay and rerecord. We appreciate your understanding and know that the interview with Jane will be worth putting up with a little static. [00:00:56] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:52] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Jane Elizabeth. Jane is a best author, personal trainer, coach and Vegan athlete. You can find out more about her work and get in contact with her on her Instagram handles. She has two. One is at bad ass dot rebel letters. And the next one is C Dot. Jane, Dot, do dot everything. Welcome, Jane. [00:02:21] Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. [00:02:23] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of comb through your book. I read that last night I was talking to you before we started recording. I really love it. I think you have some core tenants that equal to that. I don't hear a lot of women athletes were begins in general speak about. And I'm really excited to kind of enumerate those with you before I do that for anyone listening who has been following this podcast. I always offer our listeners and Volquez viewers a roadmap of where we're headed today. And we will be looking at Jane's academic background and early professional life. But and then we'll turn straight to unpacking her Vegan story if it hasn't been already enumerated within her background of academic and professional level. And then we'll turn towards unpacking her book, which I'm excited to talk about, is called Become a Badass Rebel Runner The Ultimate Guide to Being a Fit Mom Without the Diet Bullshit. And I'm excited to climb through a lot. As I said, those core components that I feel like really differentiate, Jane, from a lot of the leading athletes that I've spoken to. And then we'll turn towards the ethos and what she was hoping, the ethos of the book and what she was hoping her readership would kind of garner and gain from, as well as the audience that she had in mind when she was writing it. And we'll wrap everything up with that. Looking at the future and the goals that Jane may have within it's one, two years, this is a conversation that people has changed a great deal for those of us in the world as of late with the public pandemic upon us really quickly. As promised before I'd start peppering Jane with questions of bio. Jane Elizabeth is a bestselling author, personal trainer, empowerment coach, motivational speaker, athlete and animal lover who has been active in the animal rescue community for over a decade. She went vegan for the animals two and a half years ago and has become an active advocate for veganism ever since. Although she originally went vegan for the animals, Gene discovered the health benefits and the vast environmental benefits of building begin to be incredible. Using her own transformation story as a platform of hope, she inspires others to take care of the animals and the planet by taking care of themselves. Her Vegan fitness mobile app, Batak Rebel Runners, has empowered hundreds of people to get fit and healthy. Her book become a badass Bevell runner and the ultimate guide to being a fit mom. Without the Diet, Bullshit shares her personal journey and is available now on Amazon. She believes strongly in being a voice for the voiceless and standing up for what is right, even if it means standing alone. And so and I do also I neglected to mention I want you to kind of put across through your app. I have read the book. I have not gotten on the apps side. Have you kind of just pull that out? All of us. Before we get to all of that, I'm hoping that you can kind of draw us this platform of your early academic and professional background that led you to where you are now. [00:05:07] Sure. Well, thanks so much for that question. It's really interesting because, you know, from an academic standpoint, actually started in music. That was my first love. That was my first year. I drove into that thinking, you know, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. I went to a trade school that was focused on the performing arts. So it was called music tech. And then it changed to McNelly Smith. And unfortunately, it doesn't even exist anymore. Back in Minneapolis, Minnesota. So I did that. I had a rock band for about 13 years. And that was a lot of fun, a lot of fun times with that. And all that time, I had to work, too, because, you know, when you're in a rock band, that's not something typically that is going to pay the bills. So I was in sales and management, which actually led me down a different path professionally than I thought I was going to to go down. So I hadn't intended on getting into the realm of corporate America. But that's what happened. And so, you know, getting into management and seeing the result of really mentoring people and figuring out or helping them really figure out what they wanted to do with their professional careers became a passion of mine, too. And so actually, in my thirties, after getting into human resources or from sales management to human resource, it seemed like a natural progression from a professional standpoint. And what I was doing that I thought, well, this is probably what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. So I actually went back to school in my early thirties and I, I got my undergraduate degree and my graduate degrees, both with human resource management thinking, you know, if I can help people and mentor them. And actually help them figure out what it is they really want to do with their lives, help them feel fulfilled from a professional standpoint, that will help them then in their personal lives, too. So it is really, you know, trying to also help corporations find that that win win, that's good for the company, good for employees, good for management. And, you know, being in human resources, you see kind of the underbelly of organizations. [00:07:19] You see people at their very worst. And, you know, people come to you with all their crap. I mean, people, you know, are hurting. They're frustrated. They're angry. You very rarely get to see people on their best days. So kind of being that voice of, you know, it's OK. You know, let's figure this out. There's a solution here. [00:07:41] You know, tell me how you're feeling. Tell me what you're thinking. Tell me your perspective. And taking that in as not right or wrong, but your perspective is your perspective. And giving people that space to actually just be heard was something that became second nature. And I think that's actually helped me in where I am now. But what happened is I actually got pregnant on purpose. I was always wanted kids. And I got pregnant with my daughter. And at that time, I was in grad school and I was working full time in human resources. So it was a bit of a struggle, you know, like waddling around downtown Minneapolis, going to work and, you know, going to school and all these things. And, you know, when you're pregnant, you're exhausted all the time. And I had this funny thought in my head. I remember thinking they're doing my my papers for preschool and handing them in and being so exhausted and thinking, gosh, you know, when she's born, I'll probably have more energy. But anybody who's out there who is a parent knows that that is so not true. Less than I do. And she was worried because I didn't get any sleep, but I managed to push through. So I finished grad school when I was on maternity leave and I had my my newborn daughter who didn't want to be held by anybody else but me. And she is a breastfed babies. So, you know, I was her only source of nutrients. She wouldn't take a bottle like it was just me. But I finished grad school anyway, and I just said, this is something that I need to do. And part of it honestly was showing her that she's capable of doing this. You as a mom, I think a lot of people, a lot of women feel like they can't go to school, they can't work. There's so many things they can't do because their mom is doing all these other things is selfish. But I wanted to show her that it's not that you can live this full, fulfilling life in so many aspects and be an amazing mom. So that's really, you know, what kind of my background from an academic standpoint, once I finished grad school, that's actually kind of when my life completely changed because I realized everything I had been doing and all these goals I have from a professional standpoint, they were good. [00:10:04] They were all really great goals, but they weren't really aligned with what I wanted to see from my life. And so I had this little, like mini celebration, took some pictures finishing grad school. Big deal, right. I was super, super excited to to be done, quite honestly. I mean, I was I love school, but at that point, I was so exhausted. I was really happy to be done with it. To be able to move out and have a little bit of time at least to do something other than writing papers. So I was looking at these pictures and I was holding my daughter. And, you know, looking back at these pictures, you know, when you're in that moment, you don't think about looking down at yourself. You don't think about looking at your at your body. I had been avoiding mirrors at that point for, well, quite a while, honestly. I already knew what I was going to see in the mirror, so I just didn't even want to go there. And when I looked at these pictures, it was right there staring me in the face like I didn't even recognize this woman holding my daughter. [00:11:07] And the woman was me. And that was that moment I fired. Holy crap. [00:11:12] How did I get to this point? You know, I was so busy doing all of these things for so many years. And I had let myself go. I wasn't focusing on my health. I wasn't focusing on anything other than the busyness that had come along with everything I was doing. And I had a lot of emotional trauma and suffered several losses. [00:11:36] And there was a lot that was a lot that really played into that. And what I saw in those pictures was this person, this woman who was hurting so much, just completely helpless. And all of the emotional things I had gone through were manifesting in how big I was. [00:11:56] I mean, I went from having like five, 10 extra pounds to being obese. And that was the moment I thought, oh, my God, I need to do something about this. Because I was holding my daughter and I kept thinking, you know, all of these limiting beliefs and unhealthy behaviors. This is something that if I continue going the way I'm going, I'm going to pass it on to her just like they've been passed on to me. So I could do that or I could stop that cycle. I could be the last person in my family to live my life that way and give her a clean slate. And that meant that I had to completely change my life. But she's my daughter. She's totally worth it. And that's what I found my wife to completely change my life. [00:12:47] Yeah. Your book, you can hear why and talk about your daughter being your why. [00:12:51] And then. And it does a good job of kind of mixing and matching the time here of what you're talking about. I'm curious how the relationship and the conversation between exercise and the Vegan diet, you kind of climb through, you pass out when meat left your diet and then, you know, we have an identical experience nursing your daughter, you know, that immediately turning you off the milk. And then you also kind of unpack later on how the extraction of milk enables you to start your exercise. But I'm hoping you can kind of make sense of that being a Vegan athlete yourself and being this pro distance runner that you are. You a lot of people here are Vegan. And this is running is about the last thing that weightlifting did. They're like, no, Vegan don't do that. I love talking to people who do it that way. And I'm wondering if you can kind of form the relationship between becoming Vegan as well as your weight loss journey like they didn't come spontaneously or did they kind of did, because, you know, what I did is I was looking at my life and what needed to change. [00:13:55] And, you know, eating meat never resonated well with me because I love animals. So I've been involved in animal rescue for a really long time. [00:14:03] And I've rescue dogs. We fostered dogs. I mean, this is something I mean, I love cats, too, but I'm allergic, so I could never foster them. But they are really cute and they love me, especially, I think, because I'm allergic. They like to crawl up, man, get lost and hurt, which is fine. I just make sure I, you know, shower right after. [00:14:20] But, you know, we had, you know, animals like cows and pigs and turkeys come into rescue as well. And these are animals that are typically killed for food. And their personalities were the same as my dogs. And I couldn't help but thinking, you know, why are we rescuing these animals? But, you know, killing these animals? I mean, obviously, the ones who came to rescue those were safe. But, you know, my my point is, you know, these farmed animals are the exact same as the ones are coming into rescue. So we're saving some and then paying to have some meat kill the other ones. And it just didn't sit right with me. It didn't resonate with my spirit. So I just thought, you know what, I have to change this because this isn't right. It's it's been bothering me for a long time. There's gotta be another way. And I mean, I was raised in a very I mean, almost a.. Vegan household, as I mean, most people were. And, you know, back in that day when I'm going to 80s, baby and, you know, meat was where you got your protein. And if you want to if you wanted to be strong, you eat eggs, which I never actually really liked eggs. But if you wanted strong bones, you know, you drink a lot of milk and. But, you know, cutting that meat out was like that first thing and it felt so right to do that. And then, you know, from there, that was the what I was planning to do would just, you know, for the well-being of the animals. It wasn't really about me. It was about them. And I just wanted to do something to reduce the suffering I was causing because, you know, I've got I feel like I have a lot karmically to make up for. I mean, so many years of harm that I caused. Not really even realizing it was harm, because we're not taught that it's harm. But it's like once you know better, it's your responsibility. It's my responsibility because I know better to do better with my actions and to show my daughter. What this means, you know, we're saying cruelty free. That doesn't just mean the products you buy from a cosmetic standpoint, it doesn't just mean what you're using in your household. A cruelty for your life also means not eating animals and causing the least amount of harm possible and not wearing animals, not exploiting animals. So, you know, so that was a big turning point for me. And what happened from there is right at that same time, you're right after I made that decision that I had to change my life. I decided to go Vegan and. But then there was this moment of, gosh, you know, I don't know, dairy. I gave up cheese like that was okay. There are a lot of substitutes out there. And, you know, that was fine. But that half and half was really difficult to to give up. So I had started trying to run. I mean, this was like me trotting along. This is jogging, really. I mean, this was like three days a week. This was not even a mile. I suffered from chronic asthma. And so, you know, I was trying, though I knew running would work. It's that one thing I knew would help me get fit. And, you know, people always think, well, what is it I can do? You know, and there are so many things that don't require equipment and running is one of them. Walking is not is another one. You know, they're really great ways to exercise that. You're, you know, how to do it. And so, you know, I was I felt really heavy. My knees were were hurting, but I knew I had to keep going. But I always need to my rescue inhaler before I would even start because my asthma was that bad, that I had to actually kind of give my lungs a little boost in order to open up enough for me to actually run that not even one mile that I was going to run that day. But once. Yeah. I was nursing my daughter, like you said. You know, a lot of moms, I think, have this this revelation when they are nursing moms. And if you are in tune at all to what animals go through and I was nursing her and I saw this this video at that time, I only had half and half left to give up. That was the only thing I thought. Well, it's it's one thing. It's only one thing. No big deal. Right. Because it's just one thing. But yeah, I saw this video. It popped up. And, you know, Facebook I really I'm not a fan typically of Facebook algorithm's. You know, they totally screw with businesses and like, you have to pay if you want anybody to see anything. So I I'm not a huge fan. But in that moment, I can tell you that Facebook knew exactly what I needed to see. So I'm so grateful for that one moment because that's what I needed to see to change that one thing. And it was this video of a mammoth cow who is chasing her baby who had been stolen away from her. And I'm nursing my daughter. And I just broke down. I started crying like, OK, I said, I don't care what I have to do to give up. This happened half. It's done. I poured it down the drain. I was. That was it. I didn't care if I had to try a thousand different Vegan Kramers, which I probably did, you know, that was it for me. And then so that that was about the animals too. But then within about a week my asthma just completely reversed. It went away. So, you know, yes, it was still a struggle to run because I had an extra 80 plus pounds on me, but I was that I could breathe when I was running. And that feeling of that, that almost liberation, being able to have my lungs be clear while I was running with something I had never experienced before. And I've been an athlete, you know, in grade school and high school, I played sports and I always had a stop kind of like mid game to take a puff of my rescue inhaler, you know, is made fun of as a kid for being an asthmatic, which is also really crappy for kids to do. But it's what happens sometimes with when you're in school. And but that feeling of just. Oh, my gosh. I can do this. I can actually run. So that allow me to run further. So I could go for a longer amount of time. And then it was four more, you know, four more days during that during the week. I could run. And it started being this this thing I could do. And as a weight dropped off and because I could actually breathe with clear lungs without asthma, I could just keep going. And I appreciate that so much because, you know, as an asthmatic, you know, I would always be limited by something I couldn't control. But now, because I was able to go fully Vegan because of that one video, I saw that give up that last bit of dairy. All of a sudden, boom, it was done. And I could actually feel myself becoming stronger as an athlete. And, you know, and it took a while for me to get to where I am now. I mean, that was that's practice. That's work that's actually putting in, you know, grinding, putting in that work every day. But it all was sparked by finally giving up dairy. [00:21:27] And also what's interesting about that is I had gone to begin for the animals. So that wasn't negotiable. I mean, I'm never going back to any animal products. But when my asthma went away, I was like, there's got to be more to this. This is researching veganism for my health benefit standpoint. And so. Yeah. And then I started getting more into, like, whole food plant based because it's so incredibly healthy for your body. And I mean that just everything kind of took off from there because I found just this wealth of information about how, you know, going vegan and particularly eating mostly wholefood plant based is so incredibly impactful for people from a health standpoint. And I just remember thinking, where the hell has this information been my entire life? It's like this is where where were they hiding this? I mean, you know, you've got people who are dying of diseases that are, you know, by and large preventable by getting rid of cruelty, by getting rid of animal products. So that was something that was shocking to me. Absolutely shocking. So now I really even though I went Vegan for the animals, I like to use my platform to tell people about the health benefits as well, because, quite frankly, a lot of people are drawn in for that reason and then makes a connection to the animals down the road, which is fine. [00:22:52] Absolutely. What a curious case. When you said you're asthmatic, you know, in the book and I agree and I thought, oh, this is kind of clean. [00:22:57] Right. Or one of the most common things I've heard when it comes to disease of any sort with them. People who turned to a vegan lifestyle, either by knowing or being suggested that we interview will help or by accident is that things clear up allergies, as mothers can do immediately. They don't just go a little bit away. They completely eliminate chronic migraines, all sorts of things that, you know, these things that really impact all of your life. And I was curious when that happened with you and because you are kind of a community based spirit, you kind of hear it throughout different threads of your book. Did you ever have a coach or a mentor throughout your 18 months? Because in your book, you kind of lay out and talk about a solid 18 months from what you remember being your heaviest to your true fitness and and wondering, did you ever have a mentor or anyone that you leaned on or Vegan group that you identified with? Or was it all just you? [00:23:53] Yeah, that's a really great question. It was all just me. So I actually, you know, what's interesting is that kind of leads to why I do what I do. So, yeah, I took, what, 18 months? I was over 80 pounds and went from not being able to run a mile. So now I run between like seven and 20 plus miles a day just because I love to. And now that I can do it, I appreciate having that ability, which is so different from a lot of people who do it because, you know, maybe they feel like they have to or it's a punishment or whatever. Look at, you know, as far as exercise is concerned. But for me, it's this thing that I couldn't do before. And so now I'm so grateful just to be able to physically do it. So it's like every time I run, it's this time to distress and unwind and gain clarity and work through anything I'm going through. But during that 18 months, it was pretty lonely because, you know, in the Vegan community at that time in Minneapolis, there aren't a whole lot of vegans. And I did that finding a couple different Vegan groups, but they weren't really into fitness. It was something where if you even talked about the health benefits, they're like, well, you're not really Vegan if you are doing it for health reasons. I'm like, no, I did it for the animals. But I'm also very interested in the health and fitness. But you're kind of shame, you know, by the people who are, you know, ethical vegans, which I am. But I'm so shamed by people who think, oh, no, it's selfish to do it for health reasons. Well, OK, but. That's also a part of being Vegan is that it is a healthy, all of a healthier alternative, even if people are junk food Meagan's, it's still healthier than being a junk food omnivore. So, I mean, this is something that know people shouldn't be ashamed to talk about. [00:25:36] But I didn't have this integrated with draconian measures. Let's be clear. Yes. You know, enforced compassion and things like the large part of the Vegan theory is based on with like a weikel. [00:25:49] That doesn't make any sense. The love one another for the motives. Things like that seems a bit oxymoronic. [00:25:56] It does. It does. And that was I kind of pulled back, honestly, from the Vegan community for a while just because I knew I was doing it for the right reason. And honestly, there's no wrong reason to go Vegan. The animals don't care why you go Vegan they just want you to stop eating them. So it's like I don't care whether people do it from a health standpoint, for the environment, for the animals, just, you know, the animal just wants you to stop eating them, exploiting them and wearing them. Right? Yeah. So. So I celebrate anybody along their journey and whatever people's dreams look like. But as far as having a mentor, I couldn't really find anybody who spoke to me whose story resonated with me because you as a mom, she's my number one priority. There are a lot of Vegan fitness trainers that are more into, you know, like body building. But that's not what I wanted. I wanted to run. I wanted to be an endurance athlete and I wanted to get fit and healthy and have like long lean muscle, but not build bulkier muscle. I mean, it's a beautiful esthetic and I have a lot of friends who do it. And I'm not saying it's wrong. It's amazing. It's just not my thing. So I can find anybody that was really, you know, speaking my language in a fitness center from a fitness standpoint. So I really figured it out on my own. And I'm assuming so that's kind of one of the reasons, too, why. You know, once I went through this journey, I thought, oh, my God, there are probably a lot of other people who feel exactly like I felt they're doing this brand new thing that's breaking tradition from everything they've known. And they're probably feeling really isolated and lonely and unsupported by people who should who should show support. But I mean, in a sense, then my I have a lot of friends in the Vegan community who are super supportive. I have a huge support group now from, you know, friends and followers and things like that. But, you know, a lot of that has just stemmed from, honestly, my place of saying, you know what? I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to be authentic to who I am. And if people are attracted to that, great. If they're not, that's fine, too, because I am not going to be for everybody. And that's OK. Yeah, I know what that taught me when I got a sense of that. [00:28:19] We were talking off the record. And I think you do address a couple of values that you hear from Vegan offers and prep because they don't cross wires as much as you do on how you get into your personal, your health. All of it plays, you know, you as a package with this book. But I was telling you in Chapter seven and eight, when I was kind of climbing through those, you have a lot of conversation about show in the early part of this book. You talk about the the onus of responsibility to your daughter. And then you kind of you kind of explain that further. In Chapter seven, you talk about relationships and how we adopt these from, you know, people before us and how we look at those things. And then we hand them off subconsciously to the next generation. This unhealthy relationship with food being candy, particularly as you know, as women. And then also you talk about the social influences over diet and mind bodies. You get into limiting beliefs and mental handicaps, reverting self sabotage and things like that that also, I think, play into like, you know, illustrating quietly in this kind of subconscious way to the next generation. You can kind of understand how you came to that and how you came to talking about it, because it is one of the first big injuries. People always say it's Vegan. I really reexamine I have a very different relationship with them, but they can't stop there. They never kind of go into and that's that's a very blanket statement that if you haven't lived it, you may not even know what that means. And you have to do a good job of unpacking that sentiment. This idea of my, you know, food being the enemy, self sabotage and how it was handed quietly to you, you were getting ready to quietly handed on to your daughter before you became aware of it. How did you come to know those things and how did you come to write about them as being part of your Vegan story? [00:30:12] That's a really good question. And, you know, it was just this idea of realizing, you know, how I grew up. It wasn't. My parents said that the best they could with the information they had at that time, but I saw the women, particularly in my family, dieting all the time. So there was always this focus on getting skinny. It wasn't about getting fit. And the focus was there were, you know, the weight loss plan that only work right. If you stick with them and the weight loss companies are banking on you failing and coming back and then failing and coming back. And that's how they're making money. They don't really make any money off of you if you succeed. So then you've got like diet pills. You've got your shakes. You've got like the gadgets, the late night as seen on TV. You've got these really, really fit people advertising these things they probably don't use. And, you know, so all of those things, there's this mindset of food is it is the enemy. It is something that you use to reward yourself on a good day. But then on a crappy day, you dove in and you indulge and you binge and you're like, it's OK because it's a bad day. And looking at even how you create a plate of food, it was like, meat is your main course. And then everything else around it is kind of like secondary and vegetables are gross. But you have to eat them if you want dessert. I mean, that's like the mindset. I mean. And I think most people remember their parents saying if you want dessert, you gotta eat your vegetables. So it was this punishment like, OK, the punishment is that you the you know, you have to eat your vegetables. But if you can make it through that, you can have dessert. It's this terrible way of thinking about food and super unhealthy to you. Make it about, you know, if this than this in a negative way. So, you know, once I went Vegan, I it's almost like you're a rebel anyway because you're completely going against the grain with everything you've been taught about food. And so what happened is I was looking at, you know, these all of these unhealthy, you know, behaviors that were handed down to me with exercise and food. And, you know, that idea of bingeing or of limiting calories so much that you're basically starving yourself. And it's really funny. I will tell you something that there is there is a shock. Golden Girls, I mean, everybody knows the show, right? There is one particular episode. And I think there's mostly be in their 50s or something in that show. And these ladies, it was just having me on late at night and I was it was before I went Vegan. But my daughter was OK. She was always I got like two hours and she was always awake and so having me on. And I remember in this one episode, these women who are middle aged women, they had an event coming up in like a week or two weeks or something like that. So they all went on a diet to get thin before this event. And I remember this this moment thinking to myself. I do not want to be middle age and still be frickin dieting like this. This whole mindset, though, has been handed down and it's through my family, too, that it's you know, you have to starve yourself if you want to get fat. And it's about getting fat. It's not about getting fit when you exercise. Gosh, you know, if you can do the most punishing thing to your body for, like, a short amount of time, then you should see results. But if you don't see results, then you're not doing the right thing. It's not about consistency. It's about, you know, that quick fix. And if it doesn't work right now, then it's then it's the fault of the system, the product, whatever it might be, to the program. And there is a lack of personal accountability. And so looking at food and the way I want my daughter to look at food, that was huge for me. What do I want her mindset to be for food? I don't want it to be about restriction. I want it to be about abundance. So when we're when I'm looking at food, I'm looking at all of the findings that is there from a nutritional standpoint and how beautiful it is to be able to choose from all these things. You've got vegetables, fruits and grains. I mean, I haven't even tried everything that's available to me because there are so many things I'm not even aware of at this point, even though I've eaten a lot of them. I've tried so many things. But there's always something new to try. And so with her, I want her to look at food as something exciting, not something that she has to constantly restrict. And so, you know, looking at it from a healthy standpoint and saying, yeah, OK, there are these potato chips here and I'm MacIntyre's, you can't have them, because when I grew up, it was you can't have any junk food, which then made me kind of veer off. It didn't make me. I chose to veer off in that direction of, you know, fast food and junk food and all that. Yeah. But with her, it's like, OK, this is an option if you want to have that. I also have this green apple and you know, I'm going to have this you can choose. And nine times out of ten, she wants the apple because I'm not making it a negative thing like these are these chips are so bad for you. It's you know, it's your choice. How do you feel when you eat the apple versus how you eat those or how you feel when you eat those chips and having them available so she can make those good choices and healthy choices in an environment where I'm there to support her and encourage her. Then as she gets older and she's only four years old right now, but as she gets older, she's gonna be making decisions that impact her health and her life in so many ways. And so, you know, teaching her to choose something that makes her feel good. Choosing something that is cruelty free, that, you know, is Vegan and helping you kind of see that difference between a dead animal and something that is going to actually bring you so much life and so much nourishment and fueling your body. That way, when you feel good, you want to keep feeling good. Right. Is that that's been missing, I think, from the whole narrative about food and fitness for so long. But it takes a lot of effort because, you know, all of these beliefs and there's a lot of societal pressure, their social conditioning that teaches us what fitness looks like, what health looks like, what good food looks like. [00:36:57] And it's this it's all shit like you could. It's horrible bullshit. [00:37:01] I think in your book, there's a really good job that might kind of just setting that stage and letting your readers kind of run with it. You know, the concept that would exist in a vacuum, which would then become healthy and thin and break one day. It's a it's an incredible medicine. It's a drug. It's your grandmother's love. It's so many things as human beings to just think that you just switch it, you know, or not analyze the level I think is is one of the greatest fault for being fat is definitely pushed on me, you know, as a father, as a concept, like you said, that helps infomercial, didn't Summerside after I did so many of ridiculous things out there, then I said, why worry? She's going to look back on that, if you really like. I think that really looking at it because your book is the great job of your journey, talking about things, talking about how you implement things, but then also talking about, you know, ends with this like emotional, sociological look at having to impact the brain eventually. And I think that if that happens, whether you want it to or not, you know, if you're eating healthy and you're exercising and you're returning to a state of health, even if you thought you were insulin, you will naturally have another conversation with yourself, not unlike Kobe. You know, I think a lot there was a large part of the population that would say they were pretty fair on who they were, what they were doing, what job they rented, and that they liked it. And everyone I talked to had completed the evaluation with themselves of their new internal. Dialog about reevaluating what quality of life means to them, what family actually means, how much they should be spending time with their family and things like that. Something stripped of freedoms taken away or implemented again. We analyze and I think your book does a really good job of setting the reader up for that until I really. I was delighted to find that can attend it thinking, you know, about handing it off to the next generation. It doesn't matter if you have children or have or want them. You should care about how you depart this earth. And I think most people do and be slightly better at speaking. But I believe that better is thoughtful and that begins with how we analyze and look at food in the animals, the industries, the system. It's not just the animals. Veganism is tied up into a lot of this endeavor. It ties into everything from sustainability, responsibility, the earth to the farmers. The economy is a lie. You know, anytime you start to pay for things like milk and eggs, like our country does, to subsidize it, to make sure that we stay dependent on it, it cripples an economy that could exist in its place. So there's just so many aspects, and I love that your how your book kind of came at it from that emotional and mental one as an athlete. Let me ask you realistically, we had some people write in. We would take questions from our audience and they know we're getting Vegan athletes on the slopes of Quick Fire question. Rounds of people write and off at the same time. I get to ask a couple right now, as a Vegan athlete, do you feel like your endurance has ever suffered, particularly as a distance runner or benefited from it's benefited. [00:40:08] So I have more energy and stamina now than I've ever had in my life. So one great example is the first two races I did this year. [00:40:17] They're the only two races I have been able to do this year off of my whole list. I did a half marathon in January and a marathon in March and before both, I have maybe an hour of sleep just because, you know, you've got this nervous energy. I had my oatmeal. What's fruit and cinnamon like I always have in the morning and some water and coffee and went out both times and ran without stopping. Both races finish strong. And that is something I never could have done without going Vegan. So it's. Well, because what you do with asthma, too, there's no way to pluck it that mile anyway. But but now definitely my stamina, my endurance has increased. And I've learned also how to fuel my body, you know, so that what I'm eating is actually energizing me for my for each one. So that's something that I've learned to do as well. [00:41:10] And we had a lot of people write and ask if you've ever had a conversation with your doctor and M.D. of you and any doctor about being Vegan and what he was. [00:41:20] Yes, actually, last year I broke my foot. I was walking down the stair, holding my walking down the stairs, holding my daughter. [00:41:27] And my dogs kind of swirled around my feet and I fell, managed to, like, fall backwards. And so my daughter wasn't injured Jews in my arms because she was my. But one thing I could think about in that moment. So I ended up breaking my left foot and I had like had my way into the doctor and they noticed the significant weight change from where I was before. And it was like over 80 pounds, like eighty five pounds or something like that. And they just kind of looked at me and I said, I'm a I'm a long distance runner and I'm Vegan. And they're like, oh. And they said, you know, you haven't been in for an asthma check recently. And I said, Oh, I know. You know what, I I'm I can tell you it's cured because you have to be very, very careful using that term. I said, but I haven't had any flare ups since I went Vegan. And I run every single day and the doctor looked at me. They did an asthma attack and they took it off my chart. So by an actual doctor, it was taken off of my chart. And I say that because a lot of people had that question. Did an actual doctor as a fair like a doctor? I mean, I don't even know why he will say that. But yes, an actual doctor at a clinic took asthma off my chart. [00:42:41] So that was critical, like what we're experiencing. I don't know why we need it validated by him. Like it's always easing for me. Would you feel like what did the doctor say? I don't know if you're feeling pretty good. I hope they agreed. And then we also have one of the last questions that kind of breakthrough through is people asked if the baby's parents have received budget from other parents or if you at your daughter's pretty young. But if you convey that information and if we have any of our people interested, are they judgmental? How is that kind of weighing on the. [00:43:14] I've had both I mean, I've had a lot of people, Judge Mantle, from you know, from my growing up like, you know, friends and family. And, you know, I can't believe you would deprive your daughter of meat and dairy. [00:43:27] And I'm like, well, I can't believe you feed your child death and illness. So, you know, I'd rather feed my child the food that is going to give her life, make her feel good. I don't actually see it that way because I'm much more compassionate when I'm speaking to people. [00:43:45] But I have had a lot of judgment. And, you know, I always try to remember that I wasn't always Vegan. So, you know, when people ask me questions or they come at me with an aggressive manner, I just say, you know what? [00:44:01] I was in your shoes before. I understand that. It's really scary to think that there's this possibility that the way we've always done things isn't the correct way to do things. It isn't the healthiest way, the kindest way and the most compassionate way. And that's really scary. Do you have questions for me or what questions can I answer for you about the way I'm living my life? Because that sometimes will open the door, even though they came at me in an aggressive manner sometimes. Yeah, that'll be any on some people, though, don't want to have any conversations. And people have been ridiculously judgmental. And if they don't want to actually have a conversation and they're just going to come at me with no judgment about my parenting style or about me or whatever it is, those are people I don't need in my circle. And I will I've learned to set boundaries so that the truly toxic people will not ever infiltrate this. You know, Joy, I have this healthy lifestyle. I've learned how to eliminate those people from my life. So, yeah, and guess what? Those people the door's open. If they actually want to have a conversation, that's totally fine. That's cool. I'm here. But if they're going to continue to be toxic and documental, then I don't have time for it. And with other people, you know, with Vegan parents or people who are really curious about having Vegan children, when you're doing the right thing for your child's health and wellbeing, that should matter to you so much more than anybody else's opinion. You know, if there's something that comes up, let's say you do go to the doctor and maybe your child is deficient in something that can happen, whether you have, you know, meat and dairy in your diet or whether you are Vegan. I mean, there are times when as kids, like my daughter is four, they're really picky eaters. So, you know, there are gonna be times when maybe you do have to adjust things a little bit or like add a multivitamin or something like that. So that might be something that, you know, you want to talk to a plant based nutritionist about. [00:46:01] It's okay. It's OK to not have it all figured out. But just knowing that you're doing what's right for your child and for you and for the animals in the environment that matters more than anybody else's opinion anyway. [00:46:15] Absolutely. And, you know, it's a personal testimony. I don't know a lot of Vegan, if they're quite young that haven't had an incredible health turnaround. You know, when I became vegan, I was incredibly healthy and I just went to see if I shouldn't sleep. When I started being able to it was, you know, just being a little teachers of good day, regardless of how healthy. I just don't know anyone who became healthy way on like this whole basis, you know, that doesn't have some kind of wonderful story that they should want for their children. And think, before I let you go, I want you to unpack your the bad ass rebel runners. He helps a little bit about what it is. [00:46:55] Yes. So, you know, along the fitness journey on my fitness journey, like we're talking about before, I didn't have a lot of support. So what I wanted to do actually went back to school and became a certified personal trainer and life coach. And so that's something I do. And I felt like, you know, even though I just finished grad school before I started, my journey is like, you know what, though? This is what I'm supposed to do. And so I finally found my purpose and I created this app because this is what worked for me, kind of struggling through all these roadblocks and finding my way, finding my journey and creating a healthy lifestyle, going from just eating anything that was Vegan like Vegan izing anything and everything, using meat substitutes and two substitutes and then eventually going wholefood plant based. And don't get me wrong, like I still will treat myself and indulge in something really deliciously, you know, Vegan that's super indulgent sometimes. So I want to make sure I say that because there is such thing as going too far one way. And I do balance. I do believe in having balance. Gotta have Vegan Lozano's every now and again. Right. Reagen Kates or something. [00:48:02] But so I created this app so that people would have something like one thing they could look at. That would teach them what they need to do on a daily basis as daily work. It has Vegan meal plans, but they don't look like other meal plans because you do have things like pizza and lasagna. And then you do have other things are hopeful, plant based. So people choose their breakfast, their lunch and their dinner and then they portion it out for the week because this is about portion control instead of counting calories, because for a lot of people who are raised like I was, calorie counting is extremely triggering and can go so wrong because people are freaking out. If they have like, oh my gosh, I had an extra 100 calories that I wasn't supposed to have or, you know, they get to the end of the day and they're starving. So you should never feel like you are so restricted that you're light headed or, you know, you're having trouble focusing. I mean, these are things people do in order to lose weight. And I want people to know that there is a healthy way to do things. It's not about being so restricted. It's about balance, portion control, making sure you're satisfied with what you're eating. [00:49:18] So that as all of those things included in it and it is a running app, but for people who don't want to run, it's OK. You can walk. And it's something. It's what worked for me. So there's the beginners intermediate and advanced levels for people who do want to progress and maybe become a distance runner. So it is pretty specific. That's why. Bad usera wheel runners. For anybody who is veg curious or Vegan and they want to get themselves in shape. They want to get healthy their support. Right. In that app. So I come on in beginning the week at the end of the week to tell them what to expect of beginning and then to congratulate people at the end of the week, get moved into the next week. And it's just it's something I wish I would have had. And that's one thing I really tried to do. Now, with anything I'm doing on social media or anywhere else in my life is I really try to be that person. I wish I would have had on my journey. So other people are just going Vegan whether they're just starting their fitness, Sturdee, whatever kind of progress they're making. I like to encourage them and support them and celebrate them and just be there because I think we don't need anymore people really saying, like, this is exactly what you need to do. And if you don't do it my way, it's not good enough. Instead, we need people who are uplifting and encouraging and supportive. And so that's what I try to be. That's what I try to do for people. [00:50:44] Yeah, it's great. And I can answer to when I asked you earlier, if you had a mentor, someone who became the mentor you needed, would you kind of fill up that if you haven't found it become? Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Jane. We're out of time today, but I really appreciate your candor and your story and all the personal information you put out there for everyone to learn from and glean all of your wisdom. And I really appreciate your time. [00:51:11] Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Patricia, have a great rest of the day. Absolutely. For everyone here today, we have been speaking with Jane Elizabeth. She's a best selling author, a personal trainer, coach and athlete. [00:51:21] You can find out more on her two Instagram handles, one, his bad ass rebel dot oners, and the other is C Dot, Jane Dot, do Dutch everything. Her book is called Become a Badass Rebel Runner. Her app, the mobile app, is called Bad Ass Rebel Runners. [00:51:38] And until we speak again next time. Thank you so much for giving us your time. And remember to stay, shake, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I chat with Leisse Wilcox. Leisse is a transformational mindset + success coach who helps high-potential women courageously become the vision of themselves they can’t stop dreaming about. A passionate speaker, dynamic thought leader, author, NLP practitioner, top podcast host, cancer survivor, mom of three, and taco enthusiast, her entire experience has been about coming home to her truest self and to call herself “beloved,” knowing intimately that changing the world starts by making the changes we want to see within ourselves, first.   Key points addressed were   Leisse’s podcast titled “To Call Myself Beloved” and how it explores  and speaks to some of Leisse’s core tenants she has based her Coaching, advising, and speakership career out of We also explored her book which was launched hours ago titled “To call myself beloved: A Story of Hope, Healing, and Coming Home” and how it not only unpacks what Leisse terms difficult conversations but also provides action items and real life utility for solving unhealthy and unhappy aspects of life.   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.  TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with transformational mindset and success coach and author Leisse Wilcox. Key Points addressed where Leisse's podcast titled To Call Myself Beloved and how it explores and speaks to some of Leisse's core tenants as she has based her coaching, advising, and speakership career roles out of. We also explored her book, which was launched hours ago, titled To Call Myself Beloved. A Story of Hope, Healing and Coming Home and how it not only unpacks what Leisse's term terms as difficult conversations, but also provides action items and real life utility for solving unhealthy and unhappy aspects of one's life. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Leisse Wilcox.   [00:00:48] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM. You can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:45] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I elated to be sitting down with Leisse Wilcox. Leisse is a transformational mindset and success coach. And a recent author, you can find out more about all of her services, as well as her book on her website. LeisseWillcocks dot com. That is leissewilcox.com. Welcome, Leisse.   [00:02:09] What a pleasure to be here. Thank you.   [00:02:11] Absolutely. I'm so excited to climb through. I'm elated for everyone listening. Leisse's book just dropped today and I can I'm just cannot get enough of it.   [00:02:21] I can't tell you how excited I am to be this kind of baptismal moment of one of her first few podcasts to kind of climb through all of it. And I will do just that with you before I get to asking her questions. I will tell everyone who might be new to the podcast. I will read a quick bio on this. But before I do that, let me give you a quick roadmap for today's podcast, inquiry and line of trajectory in which that will follow. We'll first look at unpacking Leisse's story. So I'll ask her about her academic, professional and personal history. It pretends particularly close to her career at this point. And then we'll look at unpacking Leisse's career right now. We'll look at her coaching. I want to get into her podcast and then also, of course, her most recent book titled To Call Myself Beloved A Story of Hope, Healing and Coming Home. Her podcast, also under the same vein, is titled To Call Myself Beloved. And we will call kind of climate, too. We'll get first to all the logistics of those endeavors. So the who, what, when, where, why? And then we'll climb into some of the more specifics about the ethos and the philosophy. So we'll cover both aspects of that spectrum. And then we'll turn to as all of the podcast in this particular series, we'll turn to unpacking goals that list has for the next one to three years for herself. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she has for those of you who are looking to kind of garner some of her wisdom and perhaps emulate some of her career success. So before I question her, I start peppering her with questions, rather a quick bio. As promised, onlies Leisse Wilcox is a transformational mindset and success coach who helps high potential women courageously become the vision of themselves. They can't stop dreaming about a passionate speaker, dynamic thought leader, author and LP practitioner, top podcast host, cancer survivor, mom of three and taco enthusiast. Her entire experience has been about coming home to her true self and to call herself beloved, knowing intimately that changing the world starts by making the changes we want to see within ourselves.   [00:04:26] First, an expert featured on Simple Habit and an entrepreneurial advisor with Startup Canada. Leisse's  intention is to guide people to come home to themselves, giving them permission to live authentically. Leisse's first book, To Call Myself Beloved, is available now, and you can watch her on season two of Amazon Prime's The Social Movement. So please, I can't wait to unpack everything. As I said, I am become positively giddy with new authors and particularly like I don't think I've ever had a guest on launch that day and I'm into your book.   [00:04:59] But before we get to all of that, I was hoping you can draw us a narrative however you see fit of your personal background. You know, briefly how your childhood spilled into adulthood, leading to you, to the endeavors that we will speak about today.   [00:05:14] Absolutely. That was an amazing intro, and I got to tell you, I was sweating a little because I was like, well, we are going to get very real here.   [00:05:20] And also, how much time do I have?   [00:05:22] This is like a major, major suitcase or series of suitcases that we're going to unpack. You know, my story that has informed that has informed my present. Absolutely. Without dictating my future. If I had a I had a really difficult childhood, as so many of us do. My mom left very, very early on and for a while it was just my dad and I. Which was amazing. And a few years later, he reconnected with somebody like our high school sweetheart and they kind of partnered up together and it felt like my dad died and it was like Cinderella story kind of living out in my real life with this new stepmother there who openly did not want me in her life. They had two more kids together. I was such an inconvenience to her life and her lifestyle that I really felt like I had to minimize my entire existence. And that might not sound like a big deal if I wasn't physically abused. And I was like, OK, right. I also wasn't loved. And she shut everybody out of our lives who did love me. So she created this weird dynamic, which is classic and narcissistic abuse that she isolated me. So I had nobody else to turn to for any help. And she the way that the environment she created, I suppose, was one that made me question my own sanity. And so it was just this really, really uncomfortable place where I learned that I wasn't a person of value and if I wanted to get the love I so desperately needed. We also desperately need, especially as kids. I was gonna have to radically change my personality. And so I learned how to put on all these masks and learn how to please other people. And as I say, like minimize my own existence and stop listening to my own intuition and only listen to what I thought other people would expect from me. Well, guess what? That's not a great way to live your life. It was survival mode for sure. And what that survival mode taught me as I grew up was that that's how we find love. We develop these patterns of attachment that when I would meet somebody who is like, OK, here's a person for whom I have to fight for their love. I have to prove myself. I have to be who I am not. Oh, this is familiar.   [00:07:31] This is what a healthy relationship dynamic looks like.   [00:07:33] So, you know, fast forward a few years. I got into a marriage and that just absolutely was so included by his family. And I absolutely felt like I was home for the first time. But the marriage itself, even through beautiful vacations and three wonderful children together and this picture perfect dream life, we had created you so lonely, it was so lonely inside. And one day I had this genuine wake up moment of, you know, we're our seven bedroom house. We're in this beautiful, tiny little town with beltless property, wonderful family around us. And I remember lying on the floor of my little girls, looking at my good looking husband in the kitchen and making coffee at our, like, Karara career, a marble bar. And I had this sinking feeling of like. If this isn't enough for me, what the hell is wrong with me? I had this moment of intuition. Hi yourself. God universe what everyone is. I heard this little voice and that little guiding voice was saying, none of this is enough for you because you are not enough for you. And in that moment, it really did feel like I woke up and I knew at that point that I had some painful decisions to make and some painful conversations to have. And ultimately, I ended the marriage right. I called time of death on the merits of this kind of already dead and started Life 2.0 in a brand new direction.   [00:09:11] That's amazing. I mean, I can't recall.   [00:09:14] You know, I've heard a lot of particularly for this series over the past three years, I've spoken to a lot of women and women, identified individuals, non binary individuals included in that. And I none of them have come to their point.   [00:09:27] And perhaps it's just not spoken about as much because it feels almost privileged. But this idea that, you know, you come to this ultimate success, you know, you had the money, the family, the the mate, all of it. And to realize at that point to be brave enough to call, to just say it's not it's not working on me is kind of amazing. I'm wondering first steps when you headed down because your book is about, you know, the lessons from this journey. Right. As you said yourself, the difficult conversations and this began, it sounds like this is the one of the first difficult conversations you posture to yourself in order to come to all of these realizations. And I'm wondering, did you first have a mentor? Where was the first place you looked to guide yourself? Because your book is about guidance and helping other people have these conversations. Who guided you?   [00:10:24] Google, which is why I wrote the book.   [00:10:31] You know, in fairness, I had like a new friendship at the time with a woman who was very spiritual and kind of one of those other worldly people. I mean, you live in California.   [00:10:41] Maybe you just grew up with these people. I didn't grow up with these people. And I bear in my life now, like, I totally get it now.   [00:10:46] But at the time, she was the first person who really started talking to me about there being another way or about, you know, increasing my faith in the process and trusting what was unfolding. And she's like the first person to ever use those words with me. And I remember I I had a lot of conversations with her which helped me feel like I wasn't crazy.   [00:11:05] I have an incredible art. I have an incredible extended family. But I have one aunt who is such a rock. And when I got through all the Google searches, like, what will happen if I stay? What'll happen if I go? How do I know it's time for divorce?   [00:11:17] Like, what is marriage supposed to feel like and other assorted Google phrases?   [00:11:22] You know, I phoned my aunt and I was like, I think I know what I have to do and I need to know if you will support me in this. And I don't know why I chose to have that conversation with her. I don't know why that was important for me to do. But, oh, man, am I ever glad that I did. Because it it kind of it kind of forged a contract. To be honest. So it kind of forged this emotional contract that I knew I had her support as my person to go and talk to. What's interesting is that, you know, you mentioned that this is the pain that we don't talk about because it sounds privileged and absolutely like you're familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs. When you have your physiological needs met, you have your physical needs met, your needs for safety and security. You have all those needs met. You're still having a human experience. And this is what's so fascinating to me is that pain is relative. So absolutely, you can call it a privilege because there is a lot of privilege in there. But we're still having a human experience and that human experience is rooted in our emotional health and our feelings. And I work with so many women who are like overachievers. Right. We're all high achievers. And we've learned through our lives that you do achieve, do achieve, do achieve. And if you want to achieve more than you do more. And suddenly so many women get to this point where they're like. Oh, I did everything right. I climbed all the right ladders and made all the right moves and made all the right connections. I have this list in front of me of all the things I was supposed to do and I checked us. So how can I feel like shit? And then that's wrapped in shame because you're like, well, I obviously can't talk about this because who am I to complain? Like, look at my life. And what we're not looking at is like, Sure. Look at the outside of my legs. Look at the outset of my world. But what does my inner world look like? And for me, it was like overriding that shame or feeling the shame and healing through it to allow myself permission to be like, listen, you do have a loving and supportive in-law family. You do have you know what? At that time, felt like a really huge group of friends and support. And you're not happy. And you've been to therapy and you read the books and not the podcast. The time that, you know, you you've taken all the steps to heal this. And, you know, I remember having a notebook full of things that we had tried to like, quote unquote, make marriage work. And Amber, getting to the final page in the notebook and being like, oh, shit, I know what has to happen. And what has to happen is that either he has to radically change his personality or I have to radically change mine.   [00:13:57] And like I had this visceral reaction as somebody who had had to change her entire personality for the first 30 years of her life.   [00:14:05] I was like, you know what? I think I'm done. I think I'm going to have this really, really painful conversation and make a decision that is, for the first time in my life, rooted in what honors my needs. And I'm going to act in a way that is actually advocating for who I am and what I need. And that was the beginning of this. Like, I get shivers still talking about it. It was the beginning of this, like, wild trajectory of tapping into more of that. Because no matter how difficult that was, once you rang the bell. You can't hear it. Right. And as a result, my piece is the most valuable thing I own. And I paid dearly for it. And I still wouldn't change that for the world.   [00:14:53] No, it's life shattering. And I think anyone who hasn't felt it are the only population that wouldn't get that. He who has gone through a life, regardless of, you know, judgment from the outside, which I like to abstain from altogether, but to to come out in adulthood to a sense of self knowing and peace and compassion wrapped within that for the self, you know, a lot of times in this world, particularly covered pandemic talk. People get into compassion, which I love. I want to help spread the word. But it begins with compassion for the self, you know, and a self awareness that, like you said, you know, once you've tapped into it, it leads onto more of that. And that actually feeds your society more than anything I think ever would. But it's so it's so powerful to hear you talk about that. I do want to start climbing to you. So I first want to look at the podcast because the book launched just today. And I want to kind of unpack the book after we've talked a little bit about the podcast. And I want to start off with some of the nuts and bolts of it. So when was it launched? I have down I saw the last up with the first episode is last August. I'm not sure if that's accurate. So if it was launched a year ago, what the impetus was for it. Did you take any funding or capital? How did you get going with it? Did you have a guest host? Did you have an idea as to how many you were going to release? How did you know about any or end or all of it? Or did it just all come to fruition naturally?   [00:16:18] You are not going to like the answer I'm going to give you because I Googled it once again and I Googled it, though very honestly.   [00:16:24] I remember August sounds about right, but I can't quite remember. I there's somebody who's, you know, used to be actively in my life is now kind of on the periphery of my life. But I have a lot of respect for her. And there've been so many moments in my life where she's such a boss and she's just kind of popped in and be like, oh, you should start a blog. And I'm like, OK, so I write a blog. And then she'll be like, you know, people aren't reading long form content anymore. Usually start an Instagram account. So I like durin Instagram into a microblog. And she popped up one day. She's like, you need a podcast like you, you need a podcast, period. And I was like, I don't want I don't want to do this. I don't have a podcast. What would that be like? And fast forward a little bit, which we can unpack this, too, because it's the third major cataclysmic event of my life, which is also the third in the book. I got a breast cancer diagnosis at age 36 and I had like a week before my 37 birthday or something like that. And it was during chemotherapy that I a decided, well, I have some time.   [00:17:28] And now I guess I can to write a book proposal up. I'm wondering how I'm going to fit that into my schedule.   [00:17:34] And I also use that that time, four months of chemo to research. I literally did. Google had. Casts. I just like went through a checklist and I follow that I ordered a podcast kit from Amazon. People are always shocked to hear this, but I read in a podcast kit, you know, I ended up meeting somebody locally who's a musician, really talented. And I was like, oh.   [00:17:56] You literally sound like John Mayer when you play guitar. Would you would you write a song for me? Europium song for me.   [00:18:03] And he does on my audio. And I chose to do a solo show because the effects of the work we're talking about, I have a in a former life, I have a background in Montessori education. I am naturally an educator. So for me, you can see that went from the classroom to a parenting column to a blog, to Instagram, to a podcast, to a blog. And the podcast effectively is my blog. So I don't have a co-host. It's just me. It's a solo show. I've had one guest on to one episode when I did like Life Coaching Session. But otherwise it's me because I feel like I have a pretty unique standpoint on emotional health and how to genuinely feel your feelings and how feeling your feelings at their core is what changes the manifestations of all the shit you don't want in your life. You know, we experience something. I really. Oh, can you believe this happen? And I was like, yes, let's trace that back to what is actually happening internally. Heal that and then blammo that so naturally starts to disappear.   [00:19:08] So basically, I'm so arrogant that I'm like, what I have to say is so interesting. I'm just going to deliver this product. In fact, it was a hard fought for.   [00:19:18] I don't think it's arrogance when you've gone through the kind of battles that you fought for. Those are badges, you know. And to think that other people wouldn't glean information from them, I think is largely what's wrong with women across the world. And there's nothing wrong with women across the world. Let me clarify and quantify that's put on my tombstone. What I mean is there are a lot of unification factors that I find with oppressed populations. And when I look at women, I've been studying women, female identified, non binary individuals for the better part of 20 years. And throughout feminist lenses and all different kinds. And the truth is, is that one of the narratives in the threads that is in common with all of us is that even those of us that become successful not speak about those stories, they're not important enough and they're not applicable enough. And so I think to fly in the face of that is so very, very important. But there's still even a small dialog with you. You know, as a joke saying, you know, and I'm arrogant enough, like, no, it should be an end. Women need we need to hear each other's stories. You know, the whole point of this particular podcast for any of you that haven't listened is everyone who says there's two people in this world, ones that say, oh, my God, they're so fantastic. I can't believe you're doing that. And then the others say, what is it for? What are you doing? And it's just the difference of people that understand women. Women identified Banan by individuals. We need to hear each other's stories. It's been completely isolated and cut out of rhetoric from marketing to cinema for so long. We don't understand how deprived our own personal narrative is, not gleaning the stories of any other people like us. And so I love that you've done that. And I. I mean, it sounds so stressful for me. And I love the idea that you've described it as arrogant because the concept of taking your own podcast, which is I love your narrative because it is this I'm the most recent one for anyone who hasn't. Listen, jump on really quickly because she narrates one of the chapters in her books that we'll talk about. But it's you have these moments you have to really design and then get into these specific you've got lessons that you're delivering, you know, and you're coming out with these and they're all between 20 and 40 minutes. And that's a lot of work. It's a lot of dialog. It's a lot of choreography, especially when you need it to be fluid. And so I have to commend you on that level. And to that end, I want to talk about you. You release, give or take, it looks like once every two weeks. And I wanted to talk to you about what made you decide that. And I have to say, before we get into that, as a side note, as a total nerd who loves them on a story program, you Googling things is so much right. The self fed that is Monta or any of you out there. I have four children who all went through the Montessori school and they all like it's a very self led education model. So the fact that everything in you, everything in your life has been this self led model, it does not strike me as odd at all that you're Moniz's.   [00:22:12] But I want to climb into. What? Who.   [00:22:15] How did you decide for your own. Was it a conversation with your personal schedule? Like once every two weeks you release. And how do you develop the choreography of what you're going to talk about? How do you curate that?   [00:22:26] So I am currently a solo printer. Right. Like I'm the queen. I run the show. I have three little girls. For the last entirety of their lives, except the last five months, I have had them in my custody. Eighty percent of the time. With like minimal financial support. So the stuff that I have done in four and a half years with three kids in tow. Frankly, I am clapping for myself because it really is remarkable. And the. That's from a brand. You know, when you're an entrepreneur, you wear so many different caps. Right. Like you were the genius cap where you really shine. Then you got to put on like the CFO cap, which is not as much of a strength area strength for me. And then I've got a strategy hat. And so strategically, I'm also very Dutch and I'm very much a Taurus. So when I put on that strategy cap, it is like is rooted in the earth. And that root tells me what is the intention behind what you're doing? What will this lead you to or what will it return? I'm really very spiritual. So what it leads me to. There are so many options in front of me. Most of those options are. Who knows? But I trust my gut to go for the podcast. I only do it once every two weeks because it is very difficult to turn a profit and to convert with a podcast. I think. And so I have to balance out. And I've looked at sponsorships and like I don't want to do sponsorships online. That, frankly, it seems like it's going to add an additional layer of effort on my behalf. And frankly, I look at what is the content? What what is the intention? Why am I creating this? Who am I serving? What am I doing? And how does it align with my value? That's my feel today. I use online literally every decision of my life, especially in my business. And so for the podcast, I believe it's very important to have the podcast as one of the moving pieces of my business. But there's only so much energy I can give it. If somebody else was footing the bill or if they was really converting a lot of clients back to private clients, it would absolutely be at least once a week, if not more. But right now, it's like I really want to have it, but I'm also keeping my eye on it to make sure what I'm doing is actually worth my time.   [00:24:41] Yeah, and those are really good points. I have to say, I get asked to speak a lot about developing podcasts because I've done so many that I know four years ago that I was a little podcast maven. But and what I quickly surmised and kind of speak to and advise you on is everything that you've spoken of. I think that the most important thing is consistency, tone and rhetoric and authenticity as well as like really having a point. And yours are so polished, like, you know, you kind of just quickly prattled off. But you have this original sound music, you know, to your podcasts and then and these sound quality of them, like everything sounds so amazing. And I think that people need to realize that it's still the Wild West. So I realize that I'm speaking to rules I've made up for my own kingdom. But within that, as far as podcasts go, I think consistency and tone. You know, you can have a change in the podcast, but to go from one week to one kind. And then for another, which another is very jarring. And then there's this idea that, you know, people can just not release or stop or do whatever you some random Thursday. And that seems a little immature as well. You know, and just holding yourself accountable, sponsorship, like you mentioned, is another big one. I myself am not attached to it. But funding is not an issue for me because the majority of my projects are self-funded.   [00:26:00] But as you've mentioned, a lot of people think that it's going to be this cash making machine and sponsorship in partnership or a ton of work. They frequently align you with a brand that may or may not be in sync with your brand.   [00:26:11] There's just a lot of things that decimates my brand. I'm so authentic that if I start talking about paper towels, my brand is dead and like the me-ness of me is dead.   [00:26:24] Yeah. And I like your Yankee. I like that whole concept. I was just seems that Yankee know how and you're in Canada, but either concept of ingenuity and kind of like out of the box off Amazon. And then I met a friend and they wrote the music and that that's really what you can do with podcasting. And I encourage people to get on and listened to Leisses because it is a sense of professionalism that is astounding that you did. I for sure assumed that your publicist with your book had hooked you up with an entire crew. So it's hats off to you. It sounds amazing and I love it. I want to turn now to unpacking and to call myself beloved. A story of hope, healing and coming home. The book it just launched today and everyone who has listened to me before knows that I'm an absolute bookworm. But I haven't read it as it came out today. And I am excited. Excited because this will be what I call an airplane conversation. So if I just met you on an airplane and we and I had you quarantined for an hour and a half next to me, I would be able to ask you all of these questions, hopefully without you getting away or putting on your headphones.   [00:27:21] I just, like, leaned closer because I'm so excited about this.   [00:27:27] Oh, I love it because I don't know anything about it. And so this is very off the cuff, which is my favorite kind of conversation. I'd love research, but I do far too much of it. OK. So I first want to talk about this. My introduction to the book was through whatever we could grab Off-line. And I want to read a quick line that I found to myself that kind of explain to me what the book was about and you can tell me if it's correct or not. So it says, To call myself beloved is informed by lessons learned through navigating the most cataclysmic events of woman's of one woman's life and realizing throughout each one that I am still OK. So we've kind of climbed through some of that. You know what you said earlier and things like that. But that for me, kind of gave me the impetus of what I expected the book to be about. I then listened to the most recent podcast, which is about one chapter of that, and it's called The Myth of Competition. And this actually speaks to a great deal of my heart. And I think a lot of people that listen to this podcast series will identify with it. So I first want you to hear what I would like to hear from you. Before we unpack, I want to talk about the myth of competition and all of the other chapters. But when you were writing it, did you keep your audience in mind or did you just read it for yourself? Because you do have this kind of self-serving platform, which is a plausible. But I want to know if you did keep your audience in mind, who was that audience? And as you were composing it, how did how were you speaking to them? How did it help transform her build the book?   [00:28:54] Well, until very recently, I used to introduce myself as a professional human and real ethical because frankly, that's what I am. My dream has always been to get paid to be me again. I spent so much of my life, arguably the first half of my life denying who I was and proving who I was and hiding who I was.   [00:29:12] That now I'm like, Oh, no. Here I am. It took so much.   [00:29:16] I'm so happy to be this person. I love this person so much. Let me share that. And let me see if what kind of opportunities arise. And the cool thing is, lots of opportunities have arisen from that place of genuine authenticity. So, yes, the book. I absolutely kept my audience in mind because I am also my ideal client. I'm very passionate about the fact that just like we said, if I'm having this feeling and I'm really struggling and I can't even Google the answer, I can't figure it out.   [00:29:49] Oh, man. If I can't figure it out, there about to be thousands, if not tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of other women who are struggling this that for some reason don't have the right genetic makeup that compels them to figure it out. So all this stuff I figured out, I went back to school for coaching. I read every book. I did all the things. I saw so many therapists. I ended up creating this incredible healing modality for myself that I started to use of my clients. And I watched how it was affecting my clients lives in this earth. Shatteringly simple way. You know, all of my clients this week, for example, I got on the phone with them and they're like, I am not doing well. It has not been a good week by the end of the conversation. Fifty seven minutes later, they're like, oh, my God, this is a dramatic difference. I feel so much better. I thought I felt stuck. But actually what I see now from talking to you is that I'm not so trapped. I have so many options. So I am my ideal client because those are all pain points that I, I had so close to me. So when I was writing it, it was really important to me, too. Like when it says like somehow I wrote about like, it's just one woman's life. I'm just a woman. Like, I'm just a person living a life as a human on this planet. And I was an episode on my block that's got to be where the female empowerment brand, because when you start to scratch the surface on the female empowerment brand, like you are not going to like what you find in so many that people who are championing themselves as just regular people.   [00:31:23] Are not. So let's take a look there. They're not just regular people, and I feel like I just kind of a regular person living a life.   [00:31:30] And so, again, to write from that place of wealth, here are the three things that ultimately tried to define my life childhood abuse, a really painful divorce, and then this experience with cancer that the treatment for which included chemo, full hair loss and a radical mastectomy. If I remove both of my breasts and what I learned through each of those things was how to heal and not only how to heal from trauma and pain, but how to come home to. So when you read in the space of like, all you have to do is self lollypops. Just love yourself. Just take care of yourself. Just start to prioritize. I'll just set boundaries. My personality is like, yeah, but how? Like tell me how to do that. Nobody is telling me how to do that. They're just creating a listicle. Is that gets great MCO ratings. And so suddenly I was like, well fuck it, I'm going to write this manual on how to do this. So the book is divided and I would call a book like a self love manifesto because it's almost 400 pages and it's literally a compendium of everything and every healing modality, mindset, HAAKE technique that I learned about spotted figures. And it's divided into these three sections, understanding where you've come from, making peace with where you are and then healing forward. And each section opens with one personal essay. So, like, here's a glimpse of what my childhood was actually like. People think because I had such like an engaged Instagram audience, that I must be like very extroverted and very public. I'm insanely private, like I'm an insanely efforts. And so this is a big deal to them actually sharing stories of what it was like in childhood. And then, you know, the second part opens with what does divorce actually feel like? Because if you want to polarize a room real quick, just ask for people's opinions on marriage and divorce, and you will find you'll find basically it's always the woman's fault.   [00:33:22] There a lot of things in the marriage. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that was it was just so it was so intense.   [00:33:28] Divorce was literally the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. And that includes cancer. It was way harder than cancer. And then just as I was building momentum and doing all the right things and navigating that divorce, a lot of grace and kindness and compassion. I got breast cancer, like I got breast cancer the day my ex-husband got married and I was like I was so ready to give up. I was ready. I was like, I'm out. My life is a Kafka novel. And I've read it. And I don't like how it ends. I'm not gonna be this beetle trapped in my back because that's stupid. I don't know what I'm gonna do. And I came home from one of my appointments. There are many, many, many appointments at the very beginning of cancer. And I was so young and no family history that the treatment was going to be super aggressive. So I came home from one of my appointments. I hadn't picked up my kids from school yet. I was just like once again, once again lying on my living room floor. A different house was one I bought by myself, lying in my living room floor rage, screaming like primal rage. But that anger that you're never, ever allowed to feel, particularly as a woman. Like, I was just rage screaming. And I was screaming out like, how the heck am I going to do this? How am I going to do this? Yeah, I wouldn't you know, it. This little voice came back. Again, and the voice this time was like you were going to make this beautiful. And I remember like stopping and being like, what? And I heard it again. You're gonna make this beautiful. And it was in that moment where I was like, oh, my God. The only expectations I have to meet are the ones I set for myself. So I actually get to defy what anybody else's expectations of are of my cancer experience. And I'm going to make it my own. And I'm going to make it so fucking beautiful. Nobody's gonna know what to do. So from that, it was such a turning point that I realized I'm sure you read The Alchemist by Paulo Pueblo. If you're a reader, that's my favorite book. And I remember going through that process of deliberately making everything about the cancer experience and single parenting. And I was like, this is emotional alchemy. This is taking this dark, painful, really heavy stuff. Allowing enough trust and flow and expertize and intuition to consciously transform it into something beautiful and golden. So to kind of answer the question a very long way. That's the third part of the block. It's full of how you do that. You know, it's very easy to be like if you want to heal and move forward, all you to do is forgive your parents. Do you know what it's like to forgive your parents? Do you know what it's like to forgive an ex-husband who doesn't treat you very well? That's hard. Do you know what it's like to forgive people who you thought you could trust? And then they violated all your trust. So in the book, it's I am so proud of it because it's like. Lots of personal essay, lots of anecdotes. There's so many little funny examples, just like it feels like you're kind of talking to your girlfriend on the couch because it's just kind of a casual conversation. We're intensely practical hands on information that anybody can do, that anybody can just teach themselves how to think. Definitely.   [00:36:40] And as a single mom of three, when I say things like it's lifestyle friendly, you better believe it's lifestyle friendly because, like, ain't nobody got time to get up an extra hour and a half to do a workout and make a great movie and then a bulletproof like, I'm like, no, I can't do that right now. So just tell me, how do I teach myself how to think differently?   [00:36:58] I wrote the tome on it. That's amazing. I love. I'm obsessed with anyone who knows.   [00:37:06] Mayors had the unfortunate experience of hearing me ramble on either in front of a crowd or not. I'm obsessed with action items and utility and and it's because I get lost very easily personally in despair. And, you know, and I look at really, really hard subjects and I don't mind doing that as long as we've got a ladder out what path towards that ladder. And so this this call to to action that you have that, you know, you've insisted on fitting into schedule and things like that is kind of. And it's I'm I'm obsessed with the concept. A lot of books that kind of dove into narrative and things like that. We'll tell you how that particular person kind of came out of it. And frequently it'll be like time passed and things changed and fell in love again or something. And I'm like, this is not a solution, you know, with the dot, dot, dot.   [00:37:55] I what what the hell is happening in the dot, dot, dot that nobody will tell me.   [00:38:00] Yeah, exactly. And so I can't I cannot wait to kind of pull it up and and look at your action items because it sounds like it's it's built that way because that's how you're leading, you know, a lot of your coaching. If you're coming out of fifty seven minutes saying this is a lot better, you know, that does not happen just from saying so my life sucks. You know, it it comes finding solutions out how we can toxify like it was will end.   [00:38:26] Because, you know, I really believe that all of us are soul children and we just, you know, live in bigger houses and drive fancy cars. But I think we all stay kids. And because I have these little girls, my inner child got so neglected as a kid that my inner child was so alive and well because she's fostered in this incredible environment that we've created as a little family, that I didn't want the book to be preachy either.   [00:38:50] So all of those action items I like sometimes if you say homework, people actually do get triggered or really these are activities they get.   [00:38:58] They kind of get put off.   [00:39:00] So I was like, well, listen, I love tacos. If you look at my branding at all, it's a very common thread that weaves itself in I love tacos. When I went to California, eight tacos, like all the way up the coast from California to L.A., but to Seattle.   [00:39:13] Yeah.   [00:39:15] So each of the activities or whatever.   [00:39:17] No, no, no. I was just saying you're right. And I mean, tacos are like more than our air state flag like me very well anyway.   [00:39:26] And so each of be like activities or the action items in the book are called taco activities because everybody likes soccer. And so it like sparks this like Tuckerton. It is so cool.   [00:39:35] Oh, not to forgive my friend, ok. It's like it's so it's very unhealthy because I, it's like I make it a very safe environment for you to trust me.   [00:39:45] And then all of a sudden you're like, oh my God, I'm doing the work and doing the work. And I am really proud of that.   [00:39:51] Absolutely. As well you should be. I think that that's exciting and finding those things. It's interesting you talk about creating a safe haven within, you know, your family, where you're it's it's dancing a fine line. When p when adults you I think you've been the first adult in the past few months has talked about being a child that hasn't irritated me. And I myself felt a little robbed of a childhood, you know, and for it for loving reasons. I came from a beautiful family of six children and it was crazy and dynamic. But my parents definitely did, you know, all that they could. And and I and when people talk about really their childhood, I'm like, oh, so your children hate being them, like, because you get to be the kid in the situation or there's those adults that like, I guess living out their dream. And so their kids are like having to make dinner.   [00:40:35] And I think like what's why are you taking out your problems on the next generation?   [00:40:38] But I like the way that you describe this environment where you're like we all get to kind of feel safe and experience and you're fostering that inner child without, like robbing it of your children, I think is so cool.   [00:40:49] Yeah. And like, my kids and I are not friends. We are not friends. I'm definitely their mother. They are definitely my children. But there it's so Medda because. I am the mother that I didn't get. I am the mother naturally, that I need it. And through my Montessori education, I totally started reparenting myself. And all of this healing is like it's essentially me re mothering myself and against all odds, because, trust me, I heard a lot of negative feedback and a ton of judgment when I when I did get divorced, people were like the worst thing you can do for your kids, you're gonna ruin their lives. And I'm like, well, not like I'm a really good mom. And that's just not that's just natural to who I am with my clients is the same thing. It's a very mothering energy. I'm not going to be like, oh, good. Did you set a goal this week? No. Like, let's be real. Like, what are you actually intending to do? I'm not your hype squad for my kids. I'm like their back them. Right. There's a lot of structure. There's there's this firm ness with a lot of flexibility. But there are these meta moments because we'll be sitting around writing like song parodies, like taking one of the new tillers with songs and making it up. But our cats instead, we're like watching a movie or something. And we all have this moment where it feels like all four of us are systems. Sometimes I'll go take them out for ice cream before dessert.   [00:42:07] First I'll be like, Oh, you do? Don't tell our mom, because there are those moments of like it's so insanely joyful and playful that none of us can believe that I'm your mom. But trust me, there's like so much mutual respect. Everybody is very, very clearly aware of, like, who the mother is.   [00:42:25] It's like it's a beautiful balance. I like the description that you have. You know, I can't wait to kind of unpack it even further in your book, and I feel the same way. I think there's a way to experience such a think, complete companionship with your children, but always remain. I always tell my kids I'm not your friend. So it's not supposed to be fair friendship.   [00:42:45] Frankly, this actually isn't a democracy. So thank you.   [00:42:48] I've heard what you had to say, but ultimately I make you assertion and I don't know what you like. I think, again, this is yes, this is rooted in my own past with the way that I apply emotional alchemy to it is like I was never, ever allowed to be myself or I felt punished and shamed and exiled for being myself. So with my kids I'm like. What do you like? What makes you happy? Let's do that. You want to do dance? OK, cool. Let's explore that. You know, you want to do karate, whatever. Let's explore that, because it's what makes you feel. I have no expectations of my children other than they are showing up as kind, lovely individuals and whatever that means for them. You know, if they're being of service and they're treating other people with respect, that's cool. They each have their own nuances and passion and style of clothing and and interests and hobbies.   [00:43:39] And to me, that individuality, while live, is the purpose of relationships to be completely whole on your own and independent while sharing an interdependent existence. Yeah. Grunting Right. And that is definitely the little environment that we've created in our home is gorgeous.   [00:43:58] That's got to be your next book. I mean, I'm putting it out there. There you go. Well, it's amazing.   [00:44:04] I love it. And I love the dynamic. It's like I said, I'm very sensitive. When things get described, I get like. But that it sounds wonderful. I love the idea of it. I want to climb into one of your chapters because it was narrated. I felt like I read it online and on your podcast, The Myth of Competition, because it really taps into something that we've actually had a lot of conversation on this particular podcast about. This was something I've looked at and a lot of different angles from a lot of different angles through a lot of different lenses in the past. And them if I would be so bold as to quickly just tell you what I heard from it and when listening to the podcast, is that there is this concept that we are all aware of, of women, that we get pitted against each other. And then you unpack it in a more interesting way. I haven't really heard this before, at least not that I can remember reading this kind of angle, but you get into the perception of what competition is. And Dina. And the takeaway for me was there will always be someone better and worse than you. So competition truly doesn't exist and it doesn't foster you in the way that you think it will. It delineates you from your society, from your fellow sisterhood. It can you know, it can actually slow things down. And it actually removes you from the goal that you're probably headed towards in the competition like circus anyway. And so I wanted to kind of talk about how you came to this chapter. Like, it's such a pivotal, crucial thing. It feels like the conversation, even as I tried to make it simple, is still so complex and dynamic per individual. How did you come to writing about this and what kind of made you come to the realizations you came to with it?   [00:45:36] So I have been basically single for about five years. Like, I've dated a couple of people since. Since my marriage ended. But ultimately, I've been single for five years. And while that has been a massive pain point for me over the past few years, because, like, oh, my God, I didn't think I was ever going to be single, like I.   [00:45:52] Where is this football player I've been dreaming about what five years is talking to? It has done.   [00:45:59] It has enabled me not only to be with my family and create a business and all the rest of it go through cancer. It has enabled me to use my thoughts. So I think about this stuff all the time. But because I spend a lot of time in solitude, it actually allows me to kind of tap into the cultural knowledge of what we're experiencing or what we're being told. I have a love hate relationship with Instagram because that's how I created my business. But also, there's so much bullshit on Instagram. Like, it pains me to watch it happen. And so for me, it's like when you start to strip it back and you strip it back and you strip it back. We are a we are animals. We are social animals at that. And so we are naturally inclined to always look to the group to see that what we're to see if what we're doing is in line with what everybody else is doing, because that means we're being accepted or we're not. And if we're accepted. Cool. You get to live. And if you're not accepted. Oh, you're dead. And so I to ignore competition is so stupid to me. It's like, wait a second. We're kind of wired in our DNA to have this litmus test of, like, is what I'm doing. OK. OK. So that's part of us. But the other part of us has to zoom out and realize, yes, we're social animals, but we've also really evolved as a species. So while we are looking out to make sure we're surviving, we actually have to look in and see what am I doing, why am I doing it? And like, what's the whole purpose behind this? If you spend your time looking at what everybody else is doing, you're only witnessing a moment in time. Right. And, you know, like, success is a long game. You can't you can't measure yourself. You can't measure your words and your progress by anybody else's standards other than your own. Because we're all just comparing weird moments in time and that each of us is walking this individual path. Why the hell would I look at anybody else's path, see where they are and why would I internalize that to make that like a metric of my success as my own? So if you understand that, like. Success as my own in this moment and that moment is like a series of moments over a long period of time. There's always gonna be somebody who's doing way worse than I am. And there's always going to be somebody who's way far ahead of me.   [00:48:18] So to me, it seems pretty stupid to do any of that.   [00:48:22] And instead take all that energy and all that focus and be like, OK. Was this my best? No, it wasn't. OK. Then how could I have done that better? Or what would I tweak to make that smoother? Or is this my best? You know what? Given what I had at the time, the resources that I had, this is my best. Look, I'm going to stand confidently in that. And it's so freeing. Just to be at peace with who you are and what you're doing that I really wanted to frame it for people as like competition. Isn't this you really only have to be to value what you're doing and why?   [00:48:56] Yeah, and I love it because it unpacks it. I think a lot of people have different terminology. You know, people who have a really positive relationship with competition don't actually mean the same thing by that word. As someone who has a negative relationship is where I get very into people like defining their terms. Yes. Least this chapter seems to really define the way that you have started to look at and use these words moved beyond them. And I think that that is so crucial. You know, when you're having particularly self dialog, you really need to ask yourself what you mean by those words. And if you're comparing yourself with somebody else, what they mean by those words and if they give you they haven't defined themselves. You can't possibly believe that you're speaking about the same thing.   [00:49:34] Well, then the second part of that chapter is like, I been controversial.   [00:49:40] But the second part of that chapter is that like collaboration over competition. Is like even more of a myth. And I would argue is rooted in such patriarchal roots that it just it makes me want to vomit because I feel like living in this Instagram generation is Instagram culture that we are told over and over again like, don't worry, girls, that we know we put you against each other for so long. But now all you do is collaborate. And then you don't have to feel, though, that bitter pain of rejection from somebody doing better you better than you.   [00:50:10] And to me, I am like I don't even have a good analogy for it. I feel like I'm like a mere cat looking up, being like, is anybody else hearing this shit? They show me a room full of men.   [00:50:22] Show me a fuckin cafe table with two men where they're being told that, OK, boys, you just need to collaborate instead of compete. No, it doesn't exist. That that's not a thing. And it's like, OK. So if that conversation is now a movement for women to champion collaboration over competition, what I hear is playing nice girls. We don't want you to Slainte nobody's feelings to get hurt. You really can't handle it. So why don't you just work together? And I'm like giving middle fingers all over the place. And like, if you want to collaborate for your brand because it's good for your brand or it's good for your soul.   [00:50:57] I work with people sometimes because I love working with them and it's so fun. I don't care what the outcome is. I just want to be in that energy. That's a fucking awesome collaboration. But if something isn't good for my brand, just because I think somebody else might do it better than me. Does that mean I'm gonna then work with her to get ahead? It's like it's so condescending and it's so misogynistic that I like a want bar. Right. I'd like to see it on.   [00:51:26] Well, and it's wrapped in this beautiful you know, it's wrapped in this message of like women lifting up women. You know, that's bullshit. Drag and all of that. And I think that you're right in saying that one must now collaborate. It's just silly as saying one must compete in. And eventually exclusive. Yeah. And they've taken, you know, a word that didn't used to mean, you know, your week and then called it week like collaboration used to be how NASA was built. It wasn't how, you know, we have the population that couldn't get ahead because of, you know, hundreds of years of misogynistic implementation at micro levels, you know. Oh, it's crazy. I want to turn I could talk all day.   [00:52:07] I could have you unpack every chapter, read it, and we'll do just that, too.   [00:52:14] I love asking coaches and people who have done so much self dialog and then turned into, you know, advisers and and mentors of that nature.   [00:52:24] I am obsessed with how you look at goals yourself. So I want to first know as a business person. Do you have one to three your goals for your business endeavors? And second of all, do you use the same structure in which you advise your client tell when it comes to looking at the future or goals or whatever terminology you want to supplement if you hate the word goals.   [00:52:44] Yeah. So I think for me, interestingly, like today's book launch day for me. Right. And I, I had ordered a bunch of copies in advance for pre sale and they arrived a few days ago. And so the from the time they arrived to today has been such an emotional time because you're confronted with it. And I read about this in the book, like the failure, the fear of getting what you want. Suddenly it's like, oh, my God, I've been focused on writing a book, even if on the back burner on my periphery. I've been focused on writing a book for four years. I did it. It's in the world. Last time I checked, it's like number three already arms in self esteem. Like I think it's going to be a bestselling book now to go back into it.   [00:53:27] And at first that, you know, the roller coaster of emotion is like, oh, my God, what do I do now? And the flip side is like, oh, my God, what do I do now?   [00:53:37] So for me, the next one to three years are so interesting because today was the pinnacle of what my goal was, was like. Right. I look today I'm like, I did it. Oh, my God, I did it. Like I created this brand. I started hiring people to run Facebook ads and build online course or build the ads to promote the online courses. You can work with me privately. I have a Quantcast I have a book I do speaking as soon as I can get back on a stage. It's like. Oh, my God. What is next for me? And so I don't know what that looks like. Really, what it feels like is more freedom, more thought leadership. I feel like all this self dialog, all of this work. All this granular attention to the emotional experience we're having. I really feel like my purpose on this earth is to change the global conversation on emotional health and self-love. And to me and this answers the second part of your question as to how I support clients with their goals. I'm so intention based. And, you know, the spirituality component ties them because I know what I want this to feel like. I know what I want how I want to honor my family. I know the level of financial freedom that feels really good for me. I know how I want to be of service to not only my local community, but my global community. And if I'm really clear on that intention, which I am, and if if that intentional why and so beautifully with my values, which it does. Then I almost don't really care what happens next, because I know it's good thought, leadership to me is always possible on my radar. I'm going to be on this TV show. We're shooting it in October. And it's called the Social Movement. It's getting like 60 people together. We're divided by expertize and we're given four days to solve a major problem like education, pendent, how to stop a pandemic. And then we pitch those ideas to a team of investors. So part of me is like, oh, man, what if I get, like, my own Netflix docu series to come out of that or wouldn't wouldn't it be cool? I get on my own Amazon mini series that's just sharing what I know about the emotional experience. I don't know, but I know that it's gonna be so fun.   [00:55:56] It's going to be like lots of work and also lots of fun.   [00:55:59] It sounds like it. I love that and I love that. You know, it came and you had a very clear thought that was just also based out of intention like that faith and knowing what that framework for yourself and understanding that, you know, you could move forward out of that confidence and grace. I think that's everyone's goal is to feel like, you know, that regardless of how clear their goals are, they will be obtainable because they've developed this platform. Well, I wanted. We've got like a few minutes left. And I want to finally climb into my last question, which everyone knows I ask on this particular series, and I'm excited to find out what yours is going to be, your answer. But so if you were walking tomorrow outside of Toronto on your beautiful lake community at a safe social distance and someone ran up to you and it was a woman or a woman identified or non binary individual, they said, listen, I am so good, least I found you. We have someone in common. They've told me to come and talk to you. I have undergone this, you know, like this litany of personal difficulty and triumph from that. And I'm getting ready to kind of pull myself up and pivot and start this huge empire for myself. And it's going to be based on all of my knowledge and all of my findings. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual? Knowing what you know today?   [00:57:19] That's a powerful question. I think it would be. Trust yourself.   [00:57:26] Don't pay more attention to what you have to say than what anybody else has to say, and I appreciate that. It is a long game, and just because it's a long game doesn't mean that you're failing. It just. Sometimes things take more time than you think. And if you can keep yourself present and really, really be in the process without focusing so much on the end goal.   [00:57:55] Beautiful. So I've got trust herself. Appreciate that it's a long game. And stay in the process. Stay present. That's great. All of those, you know, speaking to self-knowledge and then endurance and looking at like the true livelihood of everyone's struggle. And then obviously staying present, which I think a lot of your advice does. I am so thankful for you speaking with us today. It's been such a pleasure for me. And we're out of time. But I just wanted to say I really appreciate your candor. I know that your empire is developed on it, but I feel like you stay present with that. It's very easy. I think when you write as much as you do when you podcast's and things like that to fall into these like very Klip things that we say over and over again.   [00:58:39] But I listen to a lot of information on you online before we spoke. And I've never heard anything that you've given me today. So I just want to say thank you for that. It's it's really appreciated. Your authenticity is amazing.   [00:58:50] Thank you. And what an opportunity to be here. I wish we weren't coast-to-coast because like I want to go for tacos with you or like go get coffee right now. What an amazing opportunity to be here and share the space from across the world.   [00:59:03] Absolutely. And that will happen one day. We are absolutely getting tacos. Soul Sisters, for sure and for certain.   [00:59:12] But yes, I appreciate it. And for everyone listening. Thank you so much for giving us your time. I do appreciate all of you. And we've been speaking with Leisse Wilcox, who's a transformational mindset and success coach and author. You can find out more about her book, her podcasts and her coaching different courses and things like that on her Web site. Leisse Wilcox dot com. That's Leisse i. S s e w i lcross dot com. Her book is called To Call Myself Beloved. A Story of Hope, Healing and Coming Home. Jump online. Grab it off and we will come back around. I always serve. I, I know my audience is like, how could you not have read it. I will grab Leisse back up again before COVID ends and so that she's somehow still at home and I'll trap her into having a conversation with me. Guaranteed.   [00:59:58] With pleasure.   [00:59:59] Yeah, absolutely.   [01:00:00] So thank you everyone for giving us your time again until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am chatting with Jimmy Moore. Jimmy is an internationally bestselling author, podcaster, and inspiring speaker who is a highly sought-after lecturer around the world. He catapulted onto the health scene in 2004 after a phenomenal 180-pound weight loss enabled him to come off prescription drugs for high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and respiratory problems. He is the energetic personality behind the uber-popular blog  Livin' La Vida Low-Carb and the host of the longest-running and top-ranked health podcast, The Livin' La Vida Low-Carb Show, as well as Keto Talk with Jimmy Moore & Dr. Will Cole, The KetoHacking MD Podcast, and The Nutritional Pearls Podcast. He has interviewed well over 1,400 of the world's top health experts and has dedicated his life to helping people get the best information possible about nutrition and lifestyle so they can make the right decisions for their health. He has authored or coauthored a series of books, including  Keto Clarity, The Keto Cure, The Ketogenic Cookbook, The Complete Guide to Fasting, and Cholesterol Clarity.   Key points addressed were   Jimmy's extensive personal history with fasting and his personal narratives about the myths, struggles, and immense benefits from a fasting lifestyle We also discussed some of the important scientific and medical measurements involved in Intermittent fasting that were also covered in his book he co-authored with Dr Jason Fung titled “The Complete Guide to Fasting”   This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts   TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with bestselling author podcasts, our inspiring speaker, an enigmatic influencer, Jimmy Moore. Key points addressed where Jimmy's extensive personal history with fasting and his personal narratives about the myths, struggles and immense benefits from a fasting lifestyle. We also discussed some of the important scientific and medical measurements involved in intermittent fasting that were also covered in his book that he coauthored with Dr. Jason Fung titled The Complete Guide to Fasting. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jimmy Moore.   [00:00:42] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas in an effort to explore the world of fasting from a variety of angles. This dialog is meant to develop a more complete story about the information, research, personal stories and culture in and around the science and lifestyle of fasting. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Vegan life and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:34] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am so excited to be sitting down with Jimmy Moore. Jimmy is a bestselling author, podcasters and an inspiring speaker. You can find out more on his Web site. L. L. V L.C dot com. It stands for Live in leveed. A low carb dot com. Again, it is l l v l.c dot com. Welcome, Jimmy.   [00:01:55] Hey. Hey. What's going on?   [00:01:57] Hi. I am excited to climb through things. I was just telling you off the air, I've listened to a bunch of your podcasts and gotten into some of your online lectures and things on YouTube and I can't wait to really climb through it. Our audience has really reached out to us and asked us to speak with people who have an in depth and really intimate knowledge of fasting. And I can't wait to ask you all of our questions today.   [00:02:16] Yeah, I've done quite a bit of different kinds of fasting when I was writing this book with Dr. Jason Fung. I actually had never done a really long fast. So I did some of those which we talked about in the book. So, yeah, happy to talk about this subject. That's a little taboo in some circles and it's really cool in other circles.   [00:02:33] Yeah, I think it's it's gaining popularity, to say the least, for everyone listening. A quick roadmap for today's podcast. For those of you that are new to our series, I will start by reading a quick bio on Jimmy, and then I will drop in to asking him about his own personal history. If he's got kind of a succinct elevator pitch story, he can let us know about himself and how he came into the fasting world. And then I'll drop straight into asking him to clarify some definitions and terms that we all think we know about, but we don't. And then we'll just kind of pepper our questions through. All of you have written in. I want to make sure we answer the rapid fire questions. Jimmy Gymea said that he's more than happy to just go off the cuff and answer everything that you guys have asked us. I'll make sure to get the bulk of those asked. And yeah, it'll be a fascinating half an hour. Forty five minutes for me, to say the least. Really quickly, before I start peppering Jimmy with all of our questions, a bio on him. Jimmy Moore is an internationally bestselling author. Podcasts are an inspiring speaker who is a highly sought after lecturer around the world. He could typic could you excuse me? He catapulted onto the health scene in 2004 after a phenomenal one hundred and eighty pound weight loss enabled him to come off prescription drugs for high cholesterol, high blood pressure and respiratory problems. He is the energetic personality behind the uber popular blog Live in Leveed, a low carb and the host of the longest running and top ranked health podcast live in lovely to low carb show, as well as Akito talk with Jimmy Moore and Dr. Wilko, he Iquito Hacking M.D. podcast and the Nutritional Pernell's podcast. So he's a podcast veteran. He has interviewed well over it with well over fourteen hundred of the world's top health experts and has dedicated his life to helping people to get the best information possible about nutrition and lifestyle so that they can make the right decisions for their health. He has authored or coauthored a series of books including Ketel Clarity, The Kitto Cure, The Ketogenic Cookbook and The Complete Guide to Fasting and Cholesterol Clarity. So we'll climb into some of those books, hopefully, while we're talking today, Jimmy, and things of that nature. But I want you to if you would just start off. We had a little bit of a teaser in that bio. But if you could talk to people a little bit about what brought you to investigating the fasting lifestyle and some of your own personal narrative with that.   [00:04:49] Well, it started not with fasting, but with changing the eating altogether. I used to be the junkiest of Junk Food Eater back in 2003. I weighed four or ten pounds. I was drinking six Kansa Coca-Cola a day. I was eating whole boxes of, like, little Debbie snack cakes. I was a junk food junkie and I was eating like there was no tomorrow. And what I started on to lose the hundred eighty pounds was the Atkins diet. Got a diet book for Christmas in 2003. And in 2004 was when I had to change my my diet. What was interesting about switching over to an Atkins diet from a sad diet is I found I wasn't as hungry during the day. Now, that was odd for me because I always used to eat and then like 30 minutes later, man, I'm hungry, eat again or just constantly eating all day. So I went from a heavy, heavy, constantly eater guy over to a few meals a day kind of guy. Like three meals a day with no snacks, no junk food, no nothing. Then that morphed into only two times a day. And of course, when you only eat that infrequently, what do you do? It your spontaneously intermittent fasting. I remember in the late 2000s, this was a few years after I did this for a while, somebody said you should try doing like an extended fast of like, I don't know, 24 to 36 hours. I'm going to do that. Like I enjoy the low carb. It's so easy to just eat this way. And I'm satiated and I feel good. My health markers are all great. Why would I do that? And so they're like, try it. I remember trying it. It horribly, like I dipped my toe in to trying to do it for 24 hours and I was drinking diet soda. Still at the time, that idea of you're trying to fast, by the way, and other things that were stoking hunger still. So it wasn't until I met Dr. Fung, who's my coauthor on The Complete Guide to Casting. When I met him at a conference. We shared the stage together in South Africa in 2015. And I heard him talking about fasting. And I was so fascinated by what he was sharing. I went up to him afterward and I'm like, dude, like, is there a book out there about extended fasting and trying to do this longer than just a, you know, a day or so? He's like, no, I said, I want to write one. And so that's how a complete guide to fasting came about. But I was like, I can't do this book and give it justice if I don't actually go through this. So I started experimenting with longer fasts. And even before that book came along, I did try a seven day fast that that again included bone broth and kombucha and different things that I thought I needed. If you have to add anything to water and salt to a fast, then it's not really going to help you. People think it will, but it really doesn't in the end. So I did several like seven day fast. I did three twenty one day fast, which is a really interesting thing. In fact, when we were coming out with the book and I went on a podcast speaking tour. I was full on in the midst of a 21 day fast and I'd go on a show, yeah, I'm on day twelve of my fast and they're like, Oh what? So it was kind of fun. Do that. And I was so energetic and I was so vibrant. I wasn't lacking in energy. It was just it was kind of fun and then a very loose sadness in my brain. So my curiosity was born out of a spontaneity because of my dietary choices made it easy. My continued curiosity is when I learned more of the benefits, things I called top vagy, things like resetting kind of some of the insulin sensitivity that you're looking for. Those were the things that got more exciting to make to me. Now, the major reason most people go on a on a fast is they think, oh, I'll lose weight. Well done. You don't eat food, you're going to lose weight. That's that's a no brainer. That should not ever be your primary reason for going on a fast, if anything, else. I think it's for the autophagy. It's for the brain health benefits. It's for kind of giving your pancreas a break for a little while. Those are all the reasons that I go on a fast today.   [00:09:09] Yeah, let's climate straight into that. You've dropped some terms and for everyone, his new to it are still kind of climbing into the fasting industry. I'd love to know how you'd personally define. I don't need it. You know, your health, that definition of it, just how you personally when you think of these words, what your brain is saying to you. So first, let's start off with fasting, because you have actually a very interesting take at this. I've listened to a lot of your other YouTube's and you talk about how come Bhutan and things that you've got flak for, you know, in other communities. What to you is fasting and what breaks a fast?   [00:09:43] So it's tricky because you have some people out there promoting bone broth while you fast promoting kombucha while you're fasting. God forbid, if you're one of those people that thinks you can have a big bullet proof coffee that has M.S. t oil and butter and all the rest, that is calories. And by definition, if you're fasting, you're having no calories. And so your drinking bulletproof coffee. Yes, it will keep your insulin low. But no, you most certainly are not fast things. I want to get that one out of the way first. To me, I'm a little more hard nosed about it than even I used to be. I think if you're gonna get the full benefits of fasting, you need to make it water and salt. And if you need to add other electrolytes, magnesium, potassium, that's fine. But water and salt are the primary things you need to be consuming.   [00:10:34] Sometimes there are people who need to take medications and we talk about this in our book that OK. That's one of that's you then have a little something, just very minuscule number of calories under 200 calories for sure. You go over two hundred. You're basically telling your body, OK, it's feasting time. All right. So you get four calories of that proof coffee. OK. The body's going OK. It's feasting to weight. Well, you're not. You're not feeding me. What. What's going on? And you're actually are more counterproductive when you're trying to fast with that limited amounts of calories. It's better to eat no calories at all than to eat a few hundred calories because your body will be in feasting mode when it should be in fasting mode. So my definition from nonclinical is just my definition is Warshel.   [00:11:27] Yeah, absolutely, and you talk a little bit about why and the bone broth, early on, it was doing that song. You felt like it was supplementing that sodium, MOEED Right.   [00:11:35] And you can get the sodium without the bone brought. The bone broth had about 15 grams of protein. And that protein, whether we like it or not, it actually can stoke a bit of an insulin response, which stokes hunger. I found I was getting really, really sick. And then sometimes I would drink so much of it that it came out the other end. It wasn't pleasant. So you kind of have to be mindful of that. Yeah, I know TMI. But we're talking about fasting. You've got to talk about the real stuff. Bring it.   [00:12:03] Absolutely. Bring it. And so, Autophagy, when you quickly hear that word, what is the first basic definition you think of?   [00:12:10] I remember when it first came out, I was like the auto Fiji. And so I said, no, it's autophagy. Oh, OK. Looks like autophagy. For me, it's cleaning up kind of dead proteins. There's like people don't realize this, but there's like protein gets recycled again and again and again in your body. And so this is why you don't need to constantly be loading up on protein, because the body has a lot of proteins that are in the body just floating around. What autophagy does is it like Rodo rooters them out of there, just sucks them up like a vacuum. Now, you can get some of that just in the day to day doing some intermittent fasting. The guy that won the Nobel Prize in medicine in 2016, the year that we came out with our book, just like the very same month the guy that won the Nobel Prize in medicine actually got it because of his work with fasting and autophagy. And he found that within about a 72 hour period, you've done a good, clean sweep of all those dead proteins that are just kind of floating around in your body and you don't want this excess junk in your body. So it's a good, easy way to get rid of it. You can do autophagy in other ways. Exercise gives you autophagy. Even a ketogenic diet can do it somewhat. But nothing is as effective as a good 72 hour fast to clean all that stuff up.   [00:13:29] Yeah. I like that definition. I haven't heard that before. And I had kind of a tweaked out, more complex definition, but I think I'll start using yours.   [00:13:37] The fasting in a diet definitely has become more popular. I'm a little bit not a fan of fasting mimicking because it's like why are you mimicking fasting when fasting is good enough? You don't have to mimic something that's not hard. It's almost like saying I want to do a ketogenic mimicking diet. So let me load people up with beta hydroxybutyrate salts. And they're in ketosis. And then let them eat whatever they want. It doesn't work the same way. So I like it. If you're going too fast, don't mimic the fast. Just fast.   [00:14:09] Yeah. And I want to get into pasta. I want to continue with the definitions just to get them out of the way. It helps clarify. I want to talk about how you define specific fast. So first define.   [00:14:19] Let's do 16. Eight.   [00:14:21] Yes, 16. Eight is probably the most popular intermittent fasting protocol. So it's 16 hours of not eating. You're eating within an eight hour window. So just imagine you have your first meal, eleven o'clock in the morning and then your second meal at seven o'clock at night. Then you don't eat again until 11:00 the next day. It's no big deal. That's a 16 eight. Very easy for a lot of people, especially when you're eating foods that aren't stoking hunger. It's why I think kind of a low carb ketogenic diet is a nice kind of ramp up. To go into a fast 16 eight should become very spontaneous and very easy for someone eating that way. OK. And what about mad? Oh, mad is an interesting one because some people I should I go mad every day. I'm like, I mean, if your body tells you don't eat for 24 hours. Fair enough. Oh, man. By the way, stands for one meal a day. So it's ostensibly it's about a twenty three and a half, 24 hour fast. And I've done a lot of that. I enjoy oh, mad a lot, especially days when I'm doing a lot of podcasts. I'm very busy and I don't have time to really stop and eat. It's just fun to just say, OK, I eat at eight o'clock yesterday I. And so I don't have to eat again till eight o'clock this morning. It's just it's just an easier kind of way. Now I don't think you need to. Oh, mad. Every single day. And with all these things that we're describing here, I think the more you mix up the fasting, the better. So if you're going to do, oh, mad one day tries sixteen eight, the next day after that do alternate day fasting, then go on to maybe twenty four fast and just kind of mix it up. Keep your body not knowing what's happening.   [00:15:59] OK. And then how excited we can get into longer terms. But I would just be listing off hours from days. Say you have. Oh man. And then you go into forty eight. Seventy two. Ninety six I've heard. And then you get into five, seven day. What are the most common types of fast are the ones that you in and and and and Jason explore in the book.   [00:16:18] Yes. So intermittent fasting is the most common. I think that's where most people are going to get the benefits from fasting. Is that intermittent fasting? So. Be 16 eight, it could be 18, six to be twenty four. Could be oh man. So those are all considered intermittent farts and I think the vast majority of people could probably get most of the benefits just by implementing one of those kinds of farce. We also in the book talk about alternate day fasting. So that means today you eat, tomorrow you don't eat. The day after that you eat, the next day you don't eat. So what it ends up being is about a thirty six ish hour fast. When you do it that way and when you're done with a very long, fast, like a seven day fast, for example, what we encourage people to do do encourage people to do to keep the benefits going is to do alternate day fasting when it's over. So and then there's people that are like fasting years and they go long term. And of course, consult with a physician or definitely someone like Dr. Fong who can help guide you. There's other people there's somebody on Instagram, the fasting doctor, Dr. Cecily. And she does a great job as well with fasting. There's fasting M.D. There's all kinds of people out there that can help you kind of do this the right way. But if you want to try a longer, fast, if you've never done longer than, say, 24 hours, don't go for a week unless you like pain. If you can make it 20 hours, then shoot for thirty six. See how you do. If you make it to thirty six and you're good. Keep going. But don't, don't make the unrealistic expectations. This is where a lot of people mess up. They say, oh man, I've heard Jimmy Moore talk about going on a seven day fast. I'm going to go and I've never done more than 16 hours of fast. Don't be the hero. This is like an incremental thing. You don't jump when you're in the gym. You don't jump right to the 500 pound deadlifts. No, you've got to work your way up. You got to work that muscle up. And so if you're not quite ready, if your strength isn't there, if you haven't prepared your mind and body for something like that, then you're not going to succeed. So work your way up, start eating Quito's, then ramp up to intermittent fasting, which will probably happen spontaneously. Then try. Oh, man. Then try 36 to 48 hours, then seventy two and then five to seven days. Let me let me say one more thing about longer. Fast. I think you get the law of diminishing returns after seven days. So you get great results. Up to seven days. But then once you go beyond that, OK, you're getting more benefits. But then you start to have fall off as well. You start to have the concerns about maybe having some muscle loss. You have concerns about other issues coming up. Of course, the hunger which then could make you try to bean. So if you're going to do a longer, fast and plus one more thing, when you do a shorter fast, like five to seven days, guess what? You can fast again next month. But if you do 14 days, 21 days, you can't fast again for maybe a couple of months. So it enables you to do more periods of fasting, which I think cumulatively leads to more benefits in the long term.   [00:19:33] Yeah. I want to climb into that a little bit more with you, because you've had a lot of rhetoric in your myriad of you teams and things like that with your different podcasts. But you do talk about also stress has been one of the big things is particularly in your 21 day ones, where even happy stress it was travel twice, I think, for you. But it was that the Sabbath tour of these longer fast. Do you find that there's less chance of getting the sabotage, effective stress or something that will prevent you from fasting on these sort of seven days? Or was it just accidental for you?   [00:20:05] Seven days is easy now. I can pretty much do seven days in my sleep. It's so stupid, easy now. But that's only because I've done this awhile, because I've ridden the bicycle a little while now and popping wheelies and that five to seven days. Yeah, I do think it becomes a matter of mind over body at that point. You're kind of willing yourself to make it to 21 days. The example you're referring to is, yeah, I had a trip to Myrtle Beach and it was day 17 of twenty one. And it was I was with friends. It was an enjoyable time as everything, but it just overwhelmed my body and my body's like, you know, and I was just hungry, just like ravenously hungry. So just be mindful to plan your fast around your life. Sometimes people sometimes people are like, well, I'm gonna fast, I'm going on vacation is the perfect time. And I'm like, no, don't do that to yourself. Enjoy your vacation. Come back and you've got a period of time when things are pretty chill. Then fast, I will tell you, in the midst of this, Kogure, 19, has been very challenging for a lot of people to be fasting because the stress of it and all the racial tensions and then just the everything and everybody's everyday lives. I have cautioned people don't get gung ho about going on a fast just because you have the time availability. Your body is going through some traumatic stuff right now. And no, it's not anything that you can necessarily deal with because we're all dealing with it right now. Other than doing meditation and all the things to try to relax yourself when you feel your body's in a good place, then try fasting. Don't just jump into it and say, well, I'll do this to jump start my weight loss because I gained fifteen pounds and quarantinable. No, no, no. You will save as your effort before you even begin speaking about sabotage.   [00:21:56] We've had a lot of people write in that wanted to know for you personally. Do you have a list of like the top five saboteurs like you talked about diet soda and a lot of your history and the stress aspect? You have things that people should watch out for when planning, say, their first five to seven day fast, say someone's gotten comfortable, they've done a forty eight, but then in 72, they're climbing into your kingdom and they want to do their first seven day. What are life markers to look out for.   [00:22:26] You better drink the crap out of this stuff because water people don't think about what's happening metabolically when you're fasting and same thing happens when you're Quito. But at an accelerated rate when you're fasting. Your body is dumping glycogen like crazy, and it really kicks in hard on the third day. So you're testing your blood sugar and you're testing your ketones maybe on the day you start. It's like eighty five for your blood sugar and it's like maybe point seven on your blood ketones. But then day two, you start getting all those ravenous feelings. Your body's like, okay dude, it's time to eat. Oh that. Did you not remember to eat black. And so day to your body kind of rebels against you. By day three, something pretty magical happens. And it happens because your body's making this shift. It has dumped the glycogen stores. Your blood sugar has fallen sometimes into a level that freaks people out. I had somebody tell me just just say I'm on a I'm on the third day of my fast and my blood sugar is fifty three. I'm like, congratulations. You feel good, right? She's. Oh yeah. Fifty three. I'm like, you feel good, right. She's like, yeah. I said, that's all that matters. Fifty three in the context of a farce. It's not hypoglycemia if you feel good. So people freak out about absolute numbers because look what happened to her blood ketones. She went from one point one on day two to three point nine. On day three. And so what happened was her body dumped the glycogen. Her body started using her own body fat stores as energy. She replenished the water to replenish the electrolytes with the salt, electrolytes and water are your friend. If you get hungry, drink and have electrolytes. If you get thirsty, drink, drink, drink. Like, I think we just we get so used to forgetting to drink that we don't drink enough. I keep water by me all day long, even when I'm Quito, just because it's helpful. That is the key. If you want to be successful on a longer, faster or even like an intermittent fasting, never done it before. If you get hungry, drink like people. They just. Oh should should I drink. Drink like don't. Don't hold back. That is like the the what was it. Weight Watchers. That's the zero points that cost you anything to drink. Water. So drink, drink, drink, drink, drink. And you're gonna be glad because it makes you feel good. Sometimes people will also put the salt underneath their tongue and so go underneath the tongue and just let it sit there and it kind of loses a little bit. You take you feel like you're having some chicken noodle soup. And sometimes when you have a hunger or craving in the midst of a fast you, that will salt trick under the tongue. It's amazing how quick it disappears. And so I think people also psych themselves out. Oh, I should be eating. Oh, I heard a little I heard a little gurgle. That must be hunger. Gerbils or not hunger. GURGLES It's just your body is just adjusting. And especially once you kind of get today three by day three, it's party time. Like if you make it to day three of a fast go five to seven, don't just stop at three because that's where the magic is. Just begin.   [00:25:37] Yeah, absolutely. What about diet soda? You have a personal relationship with this. Doesn't sabotage a fast what is it done for you in your body to respond to.   [00:25:46] Right. So some of the ones that will almost all of them, except for the ones sweetened with stevia. What's the name brand? ZB, I think is the only one that's really good. But yeah, I don't have any artificial sweeteners. And we talked about this again in our book as well, because when you have artificial sweeteners, people say, well, it's zero calories, so it's zero. No, it's not zero. You need to look at artificial sweeteners as a negative. It's taking away from you because what's it doing? In one of my other books, The Kito Cure, Dr. Nalley and I actually talked about that. The sweeteners, while they may not raise your blood sugar, that you will raise in some people their insulin. So the last thing you want to have happen when you're fasting. Is to raise your insulin, because what happens when you raise insulin levels and you have no food in your body? The body just screams at you and says it's time to eat. And it's not time to eat, but metabolically, your body's like you just gave me some kind of substance that said, it's party time. It's time to eat. And you're not eating, homeboy. Give us food or we're going to scream at you some more. And so just know that had that visual of me screaming at you that that's what diet soda is doing to your metabolism in the midst of a farce. It's why you're going to get so much more satiated in your thirst and in your hunger when you have just water and salt.   [00:27:13] You talk a lot about like the day three, you know, even in some of your other things because of this kind of lifting and this ability to go forward.   [00:27:21] What are some of the misperceptions or misconceptions that you running to most from people come to you to talk to you about fasting? You've mentioned just recently and in five minutes ago this this fear based people have their very hyped up in their heads about longer, fast. Are there other misconceptions that attached to fasting with working out or any of these things that you find very common in people who come to you? Going past two or three day fast?   [00:27:42] Oh, the biggest one is, am I starving myself? Is this an eating disorder? And that's kind of the funniest one to me, because people have this notion that fasting is starving. Starving is where you have food available and you're not allowed to have it. That's being starved. In this case, you're in complete control. Fasting is all about you being the boss and you're choosing not to eat for a period of time to get all the benefits that we're talking about here today. And if at any point it becomes overwhelming, guess what? You in the fast and you go eat. It's no big deal. So I think people psych themselves out thinking they're doing something harmful. So I'm leeching my muscles over my muscle. My my bones are going to deteriorate. So they have all these kind of psychological visuals in their head of what they think is happening when just the opposite is happening. There's really good things happening. I wish in real time we could have some device on us, like a CGM or something that would show like insulin, lowering blood sugar, lowering inflammation, lowering because you would see this magical effect, especially by day three of all these things happening. You could really see autophagy happening. That would be. Oh, my gosh. Like put an autophagy machine on me and let's see it all get eaten away. It would be awesome. But yeah, I think a lot of the barriers to people doing these longer, fast, it's all mental. They they allow themselves to get talked out of it. And plus, you've got family members. You're doing what you're not eating. Oh, my gosh. You know, you need to go into an eating disorder clinic and it's just like, no, don't tell anybody you're fasting. Just keep smiling, wash your face a little bit if you're not feeling good. Keep drinking water to keep having the salt. And in the end, you're the one that's going to have the last laugh because you have better health.   [00:29:27] Yeah, I agree. And I agree with you about the machine hook up. I would love to see that stuff play out as well. And to that end, we've had a lot of people write in and you have experience with, you know, going back and fasting, going back, having levels read in and out of a whole bunch of different things. But for the at home faster. Are there specific tools from Quito's strips to, you know, any any type of thing that you would recommend people pick up to kind of measure where they're at with their fast?   [00:29:54] Let me tell you one thing you don't need to do. Step on a scale. Can we just all agree we're going to smash the crap out of our scales because they're not really doing us any good. Obviously, you're going to lose weight in the midst of a fast, obviously. But the thing is, it's not going to be that total amount that you lose during the fast. People go on a seven day fast and they lose like five pounds. Oh, my gosh. Just wondered if I needed to lose five pounds. And they eat two meals and they're back up three. And I'm just like, don't do that to yourself. It's not about how much weight you lose during the fast. It's the cumulative effects that happen that you lose five pounds in seven days, but you gain back three. But you but you lost two net and then the next time you fast you lose seven pounds and you came back for it. You lost three neck. It builds up over time. Don't look at the absolute amount of weight that you're losing during a fast. Oh my gosh, this is wonderful. I can fit into the wedding dress. I can go to my high school. You and I'm just like, no, you're missing the point of fasting, so not the scale. Can we all agree on that one? Let's all take a sledgehammer to it. I want to go out in my driveway and do like a slow motion and just watch it shatter. But I'm that starts as far as schools. You can do it at home. Sorry. I have fun when I'm on podcasts. You going to definitely test your blood sugar like it's so stupid. Easy to go down to Walgreens, CBS, Wal-Mart and get a glucometer if you can get your doctor to prescribe you this thing called a CGM, a continuous glucose monitor. You can put it in your arm and you can on a whim know what your blood sugar is any time over a two week period. So pretty cool tool. And what that's showing you is your body's need for glucose going down, down, down, people like that. Maybe the other day that wrote me and had the fifty three, I'm like, where would you need glucose? You're not eating anything at all. And she's like. Oh, I guess I don't. It just it dawned on her. Oh, wow. That's true. When I when I'm not eating food, my body doesn't need glucose. Why would it have glucose? So you're having lower levels. Now, it still needs a few bits of glucose for the glucose dependent functions in the body. But it does that with various processes in the body to create that glucose. One thing that I do highly recommend, too, is testing your ketones. So there's various things out there. You pee on a stick. Don't think that's very accurate. By the by day three of a fast, you're going to see Deep Dark Purple and it's never going to change anything else. So it's not really helping you that much. Plus, if you don't stay hydrated enough, it's going to turn purple. But it's a false purple. Or if you over hydrate, it's going to take away. So it's just it's not accurate. I don't like urine ketones, breath ketones. I found this device recently here I'm going to show you on camera called the bio scents. And what it does is it lets you blow into it. And on your smartphone, it gives you a readout. And it's a 10 to one ratio to to the blood ketone, which, if you're going to test blood, is kind of the gold standard if you want to test. There's all kinds of meters out there. Kito, Mojo, precision, extra Quito coach, X-rays, a bunch of them out there. But test where you are. And what this is measuring is your body's ability to be burning sacks for fuel. So people that are on a ketogenic diet you're familiar with this ketogenic is kind of a lower end of nutritional ketosis, whereas when you get into fasting, you're going on a much higher end of like like the lower end would be somewhere between point five to like two and a half, three. When you go on a fast, it's about two and a half to six potentially. When I've been deep, deep, deep in a fast of like day 12, I've seen a six point eight on the blood ketones, which means all that stored body fat is being released. And it's actually getting in the bloodstream and it's actually serving as fuel for the body. So people I oh my gosh, I haven't eaten in X amount of days. No, you're eating every single day, even when you're fasting because you're tapping into those store body fat. The reason the body fat is there is for such a time as this, when there is famine and there's no food availability, you're able to survive because you have body fat on your body.   [00:34:14] So this really quickly, the bioscience, which I haven't heard about, I think I've seen them actually on different things. How accurate do you feel? Because you are testing your blood regularly? How what's the correlation? I don't like the stakes either. I think that they and they go over time. Who knows how long they've been sitting on the shelf. But I'm wondering, with the bio sense, the correlation, is it close enough for you or no?   [00:34:38] Yeah. The reason I've been impressed with it and the reason I like it. Number one, I don't finger anymore because it's that good. But they put it through some FDA trials. They've done many kinds of studies using it. It's a ten to one ratio. So when you see a ten show up on this meter, that's just like a one point. Oh, on the blood meter. And so breath is measuring this ketone called a CDO or acetone. In the breath, the blood is measuring this ketone body called Beda Hydroxybutyrate. You don't need to remember this for a test, but I might test you later and we'll see. But BHB is Beda hydroxybutyrate is the gold standard. But if you can find a breath device, that will translate 10 to one. So at twenty five on here would be a 2.5. So if you're in the midst of a fast and you blow at twenty five, you kind of know OK I'm starting to ramp up my ketones. I like this one too because it's a more efficient way is a less painful way. The device itself is a little bit expensive. It's a medical grade device and so it's up there in price, but it's a one time expense and you don't have to keep buying strips and have blood and all that stuff. So I think it's a good tradeoff. But yes, I love that meter and it's kind of new to the market with what I do for a living. I have all kinds of companies riding me all the time, and most of them are garbage. I just thrown to the side. OK. That was nice. But this one, when I got it, I was like, whoa. OK. Now we're seeing a real deal. This is something that I think moving forward we're going to see more of these kinds of like easy devices that will make it easier to track your biomarkers.   [00:36:11] Absolutely. And then really quickly, we kind of glazed over the glucometer. Hey, how are you using that to gauge? Is it using it to gauge as to whether or not your body is releasing or what are you having people look at those levels for?   [00:36:26] So when you get into let's say you're doing a five day fast, so you put it on or you test your blood sugar on day one and it's ninety five. By day two, it's down to eighty seven. But by day three, it's down to seventy one. You see in real time where your blood sugar is coming down, it shows you that the fasting is doing something metabolically. So sometimes people are like, wow, that day too was so. So bad. Just blow. I don't know if this is worth it. Check your blood sugar, because at that point you'll see, OK, my glucose is going down. I am doing good things in my body. And then you test along with the ketones and you see it going up as the blood sugars going down. It's just kind of a snapshot of what's going on metabolically inside your body. And sometimes that gives people confidence that maybe they don't feel well because it's the first time they try to fast like this. But they're doing good stuff. And so for me, it's a motivational factor more than anything.   [00:37:28] Yeah, absolutely. And it's a different measurement than that horrible scale as well, as you mentioned earlier. And what do you look out some of the you said because you're such a personality and such a brand with fasting. I'm curious what you think about some of the personalities and brands with fasting out there. You have you know, you've really extreme ones. And I don't know if you follow any of them. There's this snake juice guy, Cole, who people feel it's just crazy, you know, and he's he's been blacklisted by a lot of different groups that feel like he's coming at in a different way. He's got the snake juice where he talks about the salts and things like that that I think are necessary. But what is your personal take on some of the fasting personalities out there right now?   [00:38:10] It calls an interesting one. I've never met him in person. I've definitely never had him on my podcast before. I did hear him on McKayla Peterson's podcast recently. He's pretty reasonable. I think he plays this persona on YouTube because he feels like he needs that to get attention. Like, I've never really had to do anything like that to get attention. I get lots of attention. I think if you're compelling with information, you don't have to go to that extreme of using horrible language like he does. So, but I guess he has a crowd that loves that. So so be it. Go, go for coal. I do think Dr. Fong is compelling. He's he's just so good at explaining things and breaking things down. It was such a joy. I've had many coauthors on books. This was the funnest book to write with a coauthor because he and I have a very similar writing style. So I think he does a good job. But I'll tell you, his cohort in crime, Megan Ramos, I love that little lady to death. She is amazing. She's a bubbly personality. And she probably, other than Dr. Fong, has more fasting experience with patients and herself doing fasts than probably anybody else in the whole world. And so I really like her. And like Dr. Cecily and I mentioned earlier the fasting doctor. And then there's a fasting M.D. There's a few people out. There's not nearly enough people talking about what I like to refer to affectionately as the other F word. I think we need more people. People have kind of slipped it into their work here and there. Oh, yeah, intermittent fasting. I'm like, OK. Intermittent. But talk about some of the benefits of the longer as well. I think if you mix it up and we have educators doing that, we need more people doing that.   [00:39:52] I agree and I agree with when Megan Ramos and Jason Fung, they're very digestible as well. You know, it's it's difficult to have this a beautiful bridge between the scientific and the applicability.   [00:40:04] And I feel like you had the book and the complete guide to Farseeing that you wrote with Jason Fung. And a lot of what Megan Ramos writes on as well is digestible and applicable, which is nice with having that scientific backing. We have a lot of people write and ask you personally what your the hardest aspect of fasting is for you to date.   [00:40:22] Oh, it's still day to day to us. Because like, you wake up when you wake up one day, one of your kido. That's just on that, if you're going to fast the first day, it's just a mess. No big deal. Oh, man. Day two, the body's kind of gone. Hello, Jimmy. It's time to eat, dude. Hello. And it's like you get those subtle. It's just kind of like Jar's use. OK. It's over. OK. OK. And that's when on day two, it's so hard. That's probably my challenge. I'll tell you what I want to try. When I do, day two's from now on. I've been thinking a lot about this. Not wanting to add in things other than salt water. But I wonder I'm just thinking out loud here on your show today. I wonder if adding in on day to some exoticness key tumbles along with the water and the salt might mitigate some of that day to succubus? Of course, those of you that don't know what exhaustion is ketones are to these are drinkable beta hydroxybutyrate, ketones, all kinds of companies making them out there now. So I don't want to give any company a plug, but look them up. Exoticness ketones e case. So I wonder if on day two you sipped on e ks all day. Now, of course, at that point in the past, your body's also starting to make that switch over from dumping the glycogen stores and then running primarily on ketones by day three endogenous ketones. So I wonder if a stopgap measure between day one and three on day two is to take those E.K.. So I definitely want to experiment with that, because if you can lessen the severity of day two, you're gonna get more buy in factor for people to do longer. Fast.   [00:42:10] Yeah. I want to know that too. I'm desperate to find out. Now that you've said that I find day two to be a beast at night. I can't sleep on day two. I like if I've got an all nighter to pull, I should be fasting.   [00:42:24] Can we talk about sleep in the midst of a longer farce? Because I think this is a big topic that people have. Oh, my gosh. My sleep was wrecked when I went on a farce. The reason people say that is they don't sleep as long. Course, I wear a little tracking device. I will give them a plug or a range. They don't pay me anything, but I get to see the different phases of the sleep. Can I tell you when I'm fasting? And it's like day two, three of a fast. That is kind of the worst period for it. It does impact your sleep. But it's not in a negative way. What it does and I've talked to several sleep experts about this, when you get into a really deep state of ketosis.   [00:43:05] Your body does not need to do as much repair when you're sleeping. And so it stands to reason that if you're used to getting about seven and a half to eight hours of sleep and then you're fasting or you're going in a really deep state of ketosis on the ketogenic diet, that you might go from seven and a half to eight hours of sleep to about six and a half to seven hours of sleep.   [00:43:27] And yet the quality of the sleep, the rim cycle, the deep sleep cycle, all of that recovery is far better on the shorter term sleep than it is on the longer sleep when you're not in that good metabolic state. So shorter sleep as far as time in bed does not mean you had crappy or sleep. You had more efficient sleep. So I do know some people do have trouble because they start having the hunger and the hunger keeps them awake. OK. Those are real issues. But most people don't just see shorter period of time in bed, meaning that you had worse sleep. It might have been more efficient.   [00:44:03] Absolutely. And we've had a lot of people on this show talk about dreaming, you know, increasing. Oh, oh, that's over.   [00:44:09] And what I want to talk about next year, I'm the dreams and then the intensity and severity and all of that speaking to a greater sleep cycle itself.   [00:44:18] But I want to climb into you so I have people who listen to the show, know that I came to fasting for the mental benefits. And AM has academics of all have long since talked about tapping into this, you know, the clarity that happens with longer, fast and different kinds of fasting and utilizing fasting for mental acuity.   [00:44:39] And other people talk about lifting a fog that they've had and things of that nature. I want to know your personal experience with some of the mental benefits when you get into 48 hours all the way up to a week of fasting.   [00:44:49] Oh, my gosh. Like the mental health benefits. If I never lost a pound of I never got any other benefits whatsoever. There is no trip and drug quite like going over 48 hours of fasting. I promise you guys. Like if you've never pushed yourself to see if you could do this again, like we talked about earlier, work your way up to that. But if you get into that magical day three in today for beyond. This is never sharper. I mean, I'm a pretty quick witted kind of guy as it is, just naturally. That's just the way I am. But when I'm in a fast, it's like I'm on some kind of drug and stuff, you know, and I don't want to, like, oversell it. But the point is, you're clearing your brain of all of the things that we're inhibiting it from being completely clear. Think about this. 70 percent of your brain is fat. And so it stands out. Yes. I just call all called you all of fat Ed. So you're welcome. So am I. I'm a fat head as well. But we're fat heads, and that means we're ketone hits. So when you're ramping up your body's ability to tap into your body fat, which then translates into higher ketone levels, lower glucose.   [00:45:55] Guess what happens? Those ketones chew right into the brain and your body, your brain actually prefers to be fueled by ketones. This is why people get the energy boost. This is why people get very clear mind mood control. Like, can you imagine all the people that are so anxious right now with all the stuff happening in the world, how this is a calming effect? I. I read a story right after all this went down where mental health drugs are up. I like 36 percent. People are taking them more than ever before. No, no. Fast for a few days. Quito for a little while. And you won't need mental health drugs because you're going to start to be chill. Doesn't mean you're never anxious. Doesn't mean you're never depressed. But it means you're able to handle it better because your brain's being fueled properly. And I would say if you want to have a reason to do this more than any other. Is the mental health.   [00:46:52] Absolutely. I think people really play down, especially in our society, in the United States of America. What mental health really brings. And really a clear and not just mental health, meaning you're not taking Klonopin, but mental health, meaning, you know, that you wake up everyday feeling alive and your mind and your thoughts and those types of things. Able to function and how that affects the rest of our quality of life, life, happiness. And I wonder how we've had a lot of people reach in and say that they wanted me to ask someone who had had a lot of rhetoric with doctors. There are a lot of people that are timid about explaining to their health practitioners on any level that they're fasting for fear of judgment and not having all of the answers. Can you speak to either resources that you have that you plug into with people who are new to fasting or a way to get an M.D.? Or would you even tell people to tell their doctors that they're playing around fasting? Where do you stand with all of that?   [00:47:46] I'm going to be controversial. Cool. Don't tell your doctor. Just like don't tell your doctor. You're on the ketogenic diet. You're going to get a lecture because, see, here's the thing. Why would you tell your doctor about your fasting attempt or your ketogenic attempt? Why, when they've never been trained in nutrition and the metabolic effects of what happens when you eat or in this case not eat for a period of time, guys? They don't know they've been taught pharmacology and physiology. You break your arm, they know how to put it back together. You have some symptom. They have a pill for it. That's it. Like we have to stop for fine physicians, as if they're the be all end all. I think the physician, the traditional mainstream physician model is dying. I think they're going to be gone and obsolete within the next decade. And we're going to see more functional medicine doctors, natural pass people that look at the core issues of what's going on. And it's those people that are very interested that you're interested in ketosis and in fasting. So my short answer is don't tell. Just do it. And if you're type two diabetic, watch your rate once he drop. Watch your knee for now. The caveat there, if you are on some kind of medication, do tell your doctor that you're doing some things and you would like for him to monitor your insulin intake, your drug intake and that kind of thing. So he can adjust it. You might blow his mind and he might ask you, what are you doing? You're coming off of all your medications. And at that point, you could say, well, I read this book, I listened to this podcast, I listened to this lecture series. And it convinced me I needed to give this a go. Are you pleased with the results? Stop? No, of course they're gonna say yes. And he might say, I don't know. Want to know what you're doing, but keep doing whatever it is. And at that point, you're in.   [00:49:35] Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think that, you know, people are on statins. I mean, there's all sorts of it's limitless. You know, when you get into fasting. But I think that there has been a lot of people writing in who are of the same feather and that that that there's just been a lot of resistance talking to natural practitioners. And I think you're right. I think everyone has finally discovered that, you know, they're about disease and death and not about health and living.   [00:49:57] So something about mainstream medicine that we need to give them a little bit of a break. I give them a hard time because that's my job as influencer in this space. But I think they are trapped because there is this thing called standard of care. Patients don't understand standard of care. The standard of care requires a doctor that if you have certain numbers on a panel, like a cholesterol panel, for example, that hits some mark, they are required to push the drug or whatever the given protocol is on the patient. Now, the patient doesn't know any better. Oh, the doctor says I should take this step. And so they go fill it. They start taking it. They get all the joint pain and all the everything. And then the docs. Oh, you must be getting older. That's what happens when you get older. You get joint pain every minus the drug. They prescribe them for the cholesterol lowering. And so let's give the doctors a little bit of a benefit of the doubt that they're kind of stuck in a system that forces their hand to do things. And standard of care is a thing. Now, what you can do as a patient is play the game with them. OK, let them do their prescribing, because that's the standard of care. Just because you get a little sheet of paper that's got a little prescription on it doesn't mean you've got to go down to Walgreens and fill it. So I'm not telling you to do that. I'm just saying you at the end of the day, ask the patient you were the boss in that relationship. He's merely a consultant. He or she is merely a consultant in your health. At the end of the day, you're the CEO of you. Then you decide what's best for you.   [00:51:29] Yes, a thousand percent. And I think taking that kind of control and that clarity and and taking them for being I you know, I was like, what's what's the burden that you've had to bear since the 1950s as a doctor to carry around this godlike status is ridiculous. You know, and anyone who wants to rise to that challenge has issues anyway. So I think that clarifying that they're human beings studying a specific part. Our lifecycle or, you know, disease issues within that really clarifies things, as you're saying. Well, Jimmy, we're almost out of time and I'm bummed out because I couldn't listen to you forever. But I want to get to the final piece of what I want, because you're this prolific personality and you've said so much over the past few years. I'm wondering, do you have, like an elevator pitch? Do you have, like, a top three, a top five or just a top singular piece of advice that you give to people about fasting or how it's affected your life?   [00:52:19] Oh, my gosh. Like it. There's so many directions and we've hit on a bunch of them in today's show. I think just do it. I think what what causes people to hesitate is just a bunch of head stuff. Just do it like people like. I don't know where to start. I'm like, start. That's where you start. Start like. I 8:00 this morning, I had a ribeye steak this morning around eight o'clock. I'm still not hungry and it's almost eight hours later. It's you just start. You just do it. You don't even think about it. And so feed yourself. Well, when you are eating, feed yourself really good, high quality, real whole foods. You can be keto or definitely help, but you don't have to be Kitto. You can be paleo, whole 30, whatever your choice carnivore and do what you want. Vegetarian might be a little bit tricky, begin might be a little bit tricky because you do need some of that nutrition from the meat and the animal based foods. But you can start by kind of when you are eating, eating or when you are eating, eating really high quality food. That's a good basis. Then it's over. And let your body just go listen to your body, allow yourself to calm everything down and just methodically go through the process. I think, again, psyching yourself out is not going to help you because the stress of all that. Guess what's going to make you hungry because your body can't stay calm. So give this a go and do methodically. Let's check this out. You've never done more than 16 hours. You make a goal at 24. You made it 90 and a half. Guess what? You just made your longest fast ever. You tried to walk in and you make it. Twenty two. Guess what? You just made your longest fast ever. I think we're we're in this all or nothing mentality when it comes to things like fasting and oh, I fail to make, like I sometimes do seven day challenges on my Instagram, on Jimmy rants and people. Oh, I only made it three days. I'm like, what was your longest fast before that. Sixteen hours. I'm like, you just went three days. Congrats. You went more than three times as long as you ever have. So it's like putting things in perspective, keeping them in perspective and realizing this is a journey, not a race. And in the long run, if you get into the habit of doing this and it becomes a habit that makes you healthier, in the end, you win. Yeah, I agree too.   [00:54:46] Right. Well, thank you so much for meeting with me today, Jimi. I really appreciate I know you're wildly busy and I'm so happy that you came on. I know our audience is really going to appreciate it. And I love your candor and everything that you're saying.   [00:54:57] Thank you. This was a lot of fun.   [00:54:58] Absolutely. For everyone listening, we've been talking with Jimmy Moore. He's the best selling author, podcasts, inspiring speaker. You can find out more on his website. L l v L.C dot com. That's live in lavada low carb dot com. L l v l.c dot com. Thank you so much for tuning in and spending this hour with us. I appreciate all of you.   [00:55:17] And this is me reminding you to stay safe, stay kind to each other responsibly and clean when you do eat and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am speaking with Niki Webster. Niki is a cookbook author, freelance food consultant, recipe creator, food stylist, photographer and qualified Holistic Health Coach. Niki shares her easy and accessible plant-based recipes packed with fresh seasonal organic veg on her award-winning food blog Rebel Recipes. Her debut cookbook 'Rebel Recipes' was released December. Niki has a social media following of over 300,000 and works with a range of household brands including Sainsburys, Riverford and Kenwood. She is the co-host of the podcast What the Focaccia and regularly teaches workshops and appears on panels. This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with cookbook author, food consultant stylist Niki Webster. Key points addressed were Niki's Web site, blog and new cookbook titled Rebel Recipes. I also had the chance to ask Niki about her perspective regarding the Vegan scene in the UK, where she is based, as well as about some of the core philosophies and values she has based all of her cooking, writing and podcasting around. Stay tuned for my interesting chat with Niki Webster. [00:00:35] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:33] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Niki Webster. Niki is a cookbook author, food consultant and stylist. You can find out more regarding everything that she does. Her cookbook, as well as her podcast on w w w dot rebel recipes dot com. Welcome, Niki. [00:01:51] Hi. So thank you for having me. [00:01:54] Absolutely. I am so excited to cleanse you everything that you're doing. We've spoken to your good chum. Bettina recently on this podcast. I'm very happy to get the other co-host on the podcast as well as I love nepotism and kind of friendly relationships like that for everyone listening. We're going to go over a quick bio for Niki to kind of garner a sense of who we're speaking with today. But prior to that, I'll give you a roadmap for today's podcast so you can kind of follow the trajectory in which I will be basing the large portion of my inquiries from. I'll first ask Niki to describe a little bit about her academic background and occupational history, so can garner a sense of what her history has offered her up until this point. And then we'll look at her personal history and rhetoric regarding her Vegan or plant based journey and where it brought her to now and then. We'll turn towards unpacking her website, blog and podcast and we'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, hi, how founding time period, all of those. And then we'll turn to the ethos and the philosophy behind her work and how the threads kind of pull through her podcast, her book, her recipes, all of those good things. And then we'll get into some of the particulars just around the Vegan culture and a lot of the issues that she's brought up on her podcast. I've had the pleasure of listening to quite a few of those, and I would love to kind of climb through some of those core tenants and get Niki's opinion on a lot of those things. That will wrap up our half an hour podcast so quickly. As promised, a bio on Niki. Niki Webster is founder of Rezac Rebel Recipes. She is a cookbook author, freelance food consultant, recipe creator, food stylist, photographer and qualified holistic health coach. Niki shares her easy and accessible plant based recipes packed with fresh, seasonal organic veg on her award winning food blog, Rebel Recipes. Her debut cookbook, Rebel Recipes, was released in December. Niki has a social media following of over 300000 and works with a range of household brands, including Sansbury River, Ford and Kenwood and Kenwood. She is the host of the podcast. What the Focaccia and regularly teaches workshops and appears on panels and What the Coccia is the podcast. I was listening to and referring to and I hope everyone jumps on and checks that out. I will have Niki kind of drop. You can find that on her website, rebel recipes dot com. But I'll have her kind of enumerate more of those. Those podcasts in a minute. But Niki, I'm hoping you can start us off talking about your academic background, occupational life and some of your Vegan story as it transpires through both of those. [00:04:32] Yeah, of course. Okay. So in terms of my academic background, I think like many people, I can really go to where you have an interesting route to, actually owes the Bloods it up now. But I basically went to university and I studied sociology and criminal justice, completely unrelated to anything I'm doing. Yeah, but there were just subjects I would sort of secret interest in and I love doing. And then I sort of finished university, went back home, had absolutely no money. So I just needed to get a job. So I basically worked in a bar and I got a job as a graduate trainee at a breakfast roll company. [00:05:15] And yes, basically I did graduate for you. Always get a broad understanding of the business. Some Chinese and I thought that was sort of a good place to start coming from the bases. [00:05:29] I literally was so broke I just had to get a job. So an opening came, became available in multi departments with breakfast or company, and that sounded eminently more exciting than the projects and the things I was doing working in the factory and various things at the time. So I am very sort of I'm quite determined, criticized when I put my mind to something, I sort of go all out and try and get it. And that sounds like a better option. So the marketing. That sounds exciting. No, I'll go in and see what that's all about. So what's the role? And yet I really liked it. It was tiny. That was it. The company was in sort of transition and turmoil and also sort of thrown deep end. And I had no idea what was doing. But it just seemed like a fun, exciting, interesting, relatively creative role. So. So, yeah. So I stayed in marketing. I worked in that role for a couple of years, sort of changing roles as a product management and brand management role. And then, yeah, sort of got him to a stage where. Wanted to progress further. I was only young. Opportunity is also getting a little bit ahead of myself, I felt like I knew everything, knew absolutely nothing. Yeah, and then. Right. Well, I've had enough. I'm not not moving forward enough, so. Well, I'll move on. So at that time, I'd started seeing a guy he would he was at you need finished duty. [00:06:53] So he was living in Birmingham. [00:06:56] I'm from Shropshire. That means anything to you. I mean, I was living in Birmingham, finishing at eight. So I went to looking for the jobs and the recruitment company that I was looking jobs through, said Nicky. Would you like to. We'd be interested. Working agreements. I had absolutely no idea about recruitment. I think they were luring me in with the promise of huge bonuses. Lots of hot work. I've never been afraid of hard work. So the challenge was quite appealing to me. And yes, I basically went to work in recruitment, sales, recruitment for about 18 months. I think it was in the end. But honestly, it was such a horrific shock to my system. Yeah. I was genuinely awful at it initially. And but I you know, I'm I like to absorb things. I like to be good at things if I can be. So I you know, I work really hard. It's so intense. We need to work twelve hours a day. Yeah. You know, it's a sales role. So it was it was difficult. But it honestly, I feel like it changed my genes, my career trajectory. I would say just for the fact that I got the opportunity to pay off all of my student loans, which, you know, I felt a weight off. No. Yeah. I mean, kids leave school and they have loads of major debts, basically. And and it sort of is relatively prohibitive to what you can actually do. And I didn't feel right for you having all these debts. So I basically paid it all off and then decided much to my mum's horror because I was you know, I've always been maybe a little bit rebellious and naughty and didn't necessarily do the things that, you know, people expect me to do. And. And so I just got myself in. A situation is more financially secure. I had a stable, if not exciting career improvement. Yeah. Right now, my boyfriend. So I was just going one evening were to go traveling for six months. So, yeah, much mum's horror. She was just, you know, up in arms and said, how can you do this? But we're off. So spent went to Asia and India for three and a half months and feels a bike traveled round the whole of the south coast, although the end of India. And. And then, yeah, I did a huge tour, really three 1/2 months in India. And then we went over to Thailand for Christmas. It's very exciting. And then went to Cambodia like Vietnam, back to Bangkok, flew to Nepal to track him in the Himalayas and then went back down through northern India. So brilliant. [00:09:35] That's was right track. Well done. I mean, he know so young. Yeah. Absolutely. And those countries are not frequently picked, at least not by the young Globetrotters I talked to today. You know, that's an amazing journey. [00:09:48] It was. And this is I still find it quite sinding in six months. My boyfriend and I only spend fifteen hundred pounds each. [00:09:59] Excellent. [00:10:01] I mean, that's a book unto itself. That's an advisory board at the very least. [00:10:07] That included it need to the flights and visas. We were it was it was one big sort of negotiation and anything that's really where my no comments talking about my recipes and things. But that's that's one of the things that really instilled my sort of, you know, passion for the food and different cuisines. And, you know, vegetarian never would've been sort of vegetarian begin for a long, long time. But, you know, those countries, they just did the most amazing, you know, vegetarian food. So that was just such a joyous experience, I think, even though we spent so little money. Most of the most that time is actually deciding what we're going to eat every day. So that was a highlight there. That was so inspirational. So anyway, I came back from traveling again, once again, this pending situation, and then went back home to Shropshire. And I hope Ryan's going to see what I can get back into marketing. And and so I did. I worked in a in a dairy company, yogurt company and a brand management position for a couple of years. That company was sold. And then what went to work in salad? What there for a number of years. So, yes, it's sort of produced by healthy eating. And I moved around a little bit from management, then sort of marketing. Mok's manager and I specialize in social media and digital marketing. [00:11:31] Nice. Were you Vegan when you were traveling throughout India and Asia? [00:11:35] Yeah, vegetarian, but sort of Vegan because I've got a dairy allergy. So. So yes, I would have said I was vegetarian, but mostly vegan because, you know, I've always had an issue with dairy. So even though I can sort of tolerate it a little bit and sometimes how to avoid things. Yeah. Most vegetarian. [00:11:58] It's foretelling. [00:11:59] I was talking to you off the air and I listened to a podcast or somewhere where you were mentioning, you know, as a child, your introduction, your baptism into curry paste and how you were putting that on everything because it was like this new found first spice, you know, in the kitchen as you kind of walked into the kitchen and were introducing yourself to that whole scene that you ended up in India, you know, kind of eating. [00:12:20] But I always tell people my relationship with being Vegan changes so drastically with every new country I go to. And it's the investigation of the local cuisine of not just the local cuisine, the local agriculture. [00:12:34] You know, I was in Fiji recently and cassava is just not something they serve a great deal in the United States, at least not on the West Coast where I live and researching cassava and the differences between the nutritional differences between that and a potato and why that kind of plays into how you cook it slightly differently and how the locals use it. And it's just it's always growing. My relationship with it. And so it's for you to have traveled through all of these countries. I think people think of a lot of Asian and Indian cuisines and and don't realize how many, like just sharply Vegan, naturally Vegan recipes there are, as well as how many ingredients kind of augment, you know, Vegan cooking today all over the world. So I think it's an awesome baptism into what you did. I'm curious, what was the springboard into this? You know, you you career travel back to your career, what took you into this entrepreneurial? I'm going to launch my role. I'm going to start creating recipes. How did that all come together? [00:13:32] Yeah. I've been into cooking and food for ever. [00:13:37] I've just been the biggest foodie. And, you know, you you mentioned meats. I'm starting to use curry paste, things like that. I've just I've just got this really sort of strange taste buds, I think. And even though it's grew up in the UK, you know, my mom was my mom's a great cook, actually, but it's just very traditional, sort of, you know, in U.K., British cuisine, potatoes and meats and vegetables and use this funds a little bit now. But, you know, definitely growing up digital and I just didn't find exciting tool. I just find it super bland because I was I've never, ever been interested in eating meat and I always have a dairy allergy. [00:14:17] You know, it was just a bit limited, you know, what I could eat. So that's where the sort of, you know, this whole world exploded when I suddenly discovered concretized. Sounds really simple, but. Oh, my goodness, I can get food. I find that Blanton's suddenly exciting. And then. Yeah, so I suppose it is driven by me always sort of cooking for myself and having to create the food I like to eat. So yes, we've been cooking these recipes and I've been thinking about starting a blog for quite a long time before I actually start today, because I think, like, I would just have never crossed the nation and why would I do it would be would be interesting. All of this sort of physical barriers haven't gone along. How can I get one? You know, I'm really busy working with Chris, really important. Just things just busy. [00:15:07] So when they get press donated. [00:15:10] For many years, few years, and then and then suddenly there was just more of a sort of burning urgency to actually do it. And, you know, as things get to the stage where if you don't do it is actually unbearable, you know, mentally that you just have to do so. [00:15:27] So, yes, my my husband is a graphic designer. He builds websites among many things, many, many hats like me. And so finally, I persuaded him kindly make my first Web site. And yeah, I just started to put things online. I sort of because I had a background in food marketing and digital marketing, I sort of sort of knew I was doing. So I decided to, you know, software platforms at the same time. Instagram five years ago was not that huge right now, right? Yeah. But I loved it because I'm incredibly visual, sort of creative person. So for me, even though the things I was putting on that were. Hideous, freezing. Awful. But excellent, really lovely creative outlet. Yeah. And just something that I could see myself doing for myself because, you know, doing all sort of stuff at work, which was fine. The job was good. But I just I was feeling increasingly more frustrated that I just had to work for myself. And, yeah, it was getting uncomfortable even. Yeah. I was rationalizing at that stop. That job is good. It's provides a steady income. You know, I've worked hard to get AM, but I've just really wanted to work for myself and see what I could do it. [00:16:49] Yeah. And that's I mean, it's an interesting point I like from your background. I don't talk to a lot of it. I think maybe some are more well versed than they like to give credit to. [00:16:59] I think that the great fear with chefs is that you'll take away from the recipe design and things of that nature. If you talk about the stylization or the visual aspects of the food, they bring photographers in. You know, they have it done. But that part is very unspoken. For the cookbook and I like your attention to and you're honest, you know, candor with the idea that you like stylization of food and, you know, and menu design and recipes, it's like you're not afraid of that design aspect. And I'm really curious because I haven't had the honor of cracking your cookbook yet, which I promise you I will do in the near future. [00:17:34] But I wonder when you went to create that. How much of the conversation was about. I like it. [00:17:41] There must have been some kind of a rapport between the two because you're visually and stylistically in very in tune with, you know, the appearance of food and stylizing food. [00:17:52] How much of the creation or the direction or the route that the cookbook take took was based on that aspect as opposed to the recipes? You know, was it was there any conversation that directed the flow or which foods made it in which you didn't? Because you're so keen to be open and honest with some of those visual aspects of food? [00:18:13] Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And I suppose my whole business, unsuccess, my business is stems from from online and from Instagram, which is clearly a visual platform round. And so it's all intrinsically linked. So so, yes. I mean, I don't get lots of thoughts on that, actually, because. Yeah. [00:18:38] Everything I make. I'm sort of thinking about it from a visual perspective. And I I think I can pretty much make most things attractive because a lot of the food I chose to eat in my cookbook and online. They're quite brown, actually. I mean, I eat a lot of lentils and curries things because I always want to post authentically what I'm eating. And that's the essence of it comes I can write about things that visually and also assuage people's Marxian plan in terms of sort of, you know, online. And I know that lots of craters absolutely create food purely for the visual aspect, because I know that that's popular. And that's part of that business model. And it is in my mind, and I will think that I need to make this look attractive. However, it is still a bite. For me, the taste in January wasn't eating and having sort of a, you know, documenting. This is what I'm eating. This is what, you know, on a day to day basis rather than creating specific content. [00:19:44] And it does. And I think that to actually have a lot of conversation between each other in an unspoken way. Bettina, your buddy and I were talking about I'm eating seasonally, you know, and she converted me. [00:19:57] I feel like I talk to so many nutritionists and vegans a week that you couldn't possibly introduce a new idea. And bam, there it was with Bettina. And she said, you know, I'm even with the greenhouse's, even the ability to eat year round. It doesn't taste the same. She doesn't believe it does the same thing for your body, which I don't now either. And she's like she was talking about genuinely tasting, you know, a strawberry in season. And what that tastes like from a responsible farm and comparing that to the difference of one grown year round. [00:20:27] And I was thinking when I hung up with her, even the vibrancy like I was at the market, you know, strawberries are in season. And she was right. They have never. If you look at the most vibrant, saturated foods in real life. Right. I r l then you are looking at things that are very much so in season and then that's having a conversation with the visual, with the taste. You know, if it's looking vibrant and you haven't shoved chemicals all over it to get it that way, it's going to taste beautiful. [00:20:55] Yeah. Because you absolutely eat with your eyes. So, I mean, it looks vibrant and juicy and gorgeous. You're gonna wanna read it, but I can. I completely agree. You know, I'm a huge fan of, you know, organic veg boxes. I said, what about it all the time? Because it's just such a sort of superway, super easy way of knowing first and knowing what's in season. And secondly is having this gorgeous seasonal product. [00:21:21] It's all organic, all grown, perfectly delivered to you. And it's like an education in itself because, you know, with it, with a weekly box, it's. It's fresh. It's you know, it's hopefully, you know, locally ish. If, you know, it's always a bit of a challenge in the UK because it's not the water supply climates. It's so but obviously it's something that we're benefiting from losers'. I you've raised muchly. Yeah. [00:21:46] Yeah. You're literally getting the best on produce at the moment, so it's just the best time. And that in itself is super borrowing. That's again how I tended about recipes I would take. The raw ingredient for me is sort of the the veg, the seasonal veg, and then basically create sort of, you know, recipes around that. And that's it. I use that sort of guide, how I how I develop. And then it's yeah, it's not only fresh, but it's healthy, it's in season and it's like a Yes. Little roadmap of how to eat seasonally. And I'm curious about that. [00:22:18] I was wondering how one, because you're kind of guided by your own light. So the curation process, it sounds like what's in season and then do you take any following feedback? Do you ever hear fans say, listen, I want you to show me how to cook this? Like how much of it is directed by what you're doing and what you think is cool at the time? And if it is just all based on you? Where do you get your influences? Do you go out? You talked. I mean, obviously, the pandemic has put a damper on these kinds of inquiries. But prior to that, do you do you kind of expose yourself to influences that will then curate what you're making? How does all of that come to be with what you're creating right now? [00:22:57] Yeah, it's sort of a combination of everything I'd say, because I've been sort of developing continents Vegan recipes for quite a while now. I do I do sort of know what people want from me. [00:23:08] So but of course, that in itself is driven by those type of things I like to produce and eat, so. Yeah. So, yes, it sort of feeds into each other. I think people have come to expect from me a certain type of recipes so they know they're going to get the whole food recipe. It's going to be natural products can be seasonal VegFest commercially can be organic, it's going to be pulses, it's going to be, you know, veg based food. You know, that's the center. So they sort of expect that. And then I'm always having a conversation myself with, you know, maybe I should be doing a few more cakes. They may make or Rakestraw. They may want chocolate. But it's you know, I mean, I'm sort of instinctively drawn to them. Some people so passionate about baking. They love making all the desserts. But it's not something I typically eat that much. Yeah. I don't I don't I don't really do it. So it maybe is producing things quite selfishly. But then I also think it's coming from a place of natural food. Whole Foods and, you know, seasonal veg. So hopefully if I can make it tasty enough, which I'm always trying to do, sort of inject layers of layers of flavor and spices. And also, I think that that's what food is quite accessible. You know, store cupboard is quite cheap. [00:24:26] You know, if you if you've got the basics pulses and some grains and some nuts and seeds and then you add some nice seasonal veg. But, you know, that's cheap. But not, you know, big batches of food. And you make it delicious. It sort of takes quite a few boxes. [00:24:41] Absolutely. How many of your recipes did you take for your cookbook? Rebel Recipes from your website. Rebel recipes? About 25. [00:24:52] Yeah, I went in publisher. They felt that that was because some recipes in which some recipes over the years just have just superseded popular. So I think it's nice for people to have it in a Walker handheld format rather than accessing online. [00:25:10] What are your baptismal recipes? And when I mean that, I mean from non vegans. What do you like to serve most? On a personal level or recommend other people make who are kind of getting societies and communities? A big conversation happening among Vegan and non vegans that isn't angry is one of like, how do I introduce them to this? Without that, there's a great deal of fear with people who think that, you know, they're going to be missing out on dairy meat. All of the things that they've been used to. Do you have, like go tos that you recommend for yourself or for others that people make? [00:25:43] Yeah, I think it's you sort of have to think about making people really satisfied and happy. So, for example, if you set someone up, you know, big place of salad, it might be healthy and might look gorgeous and be very vibrant and might be seasonal. [00:26:00] But I don't know, I wasn't necessarily going to be really satisfied from that. So I really loved the big, hearty sort of comfort foods type dishes. [00:26:11] So I would, you know, probably have a really lovely spiced curry or something or stew, but then not just that, because that's good in itself. And you can be feel comforted and happy, but then you have some layers of flavor. I mean, I always have big with great big feasts. So that is a problem I have. I can't just create one day she'll have to think is my main dish. And then let's just sneak three others and some flatbread and some crunch. And I think that's, you know, some tips and then a bit of salad and then some people. [00:26:41] And I think that's what, you know, people are missing. Sometimes when I'm not eating meat, that's sort of like different flavors and textures. And so if you have that's something that's like big and hearty and comforting and you've got some, you know, vegetables and roast veggies and pulses, but then you've got something sharp, that pickle, and then you've got some flatbreads mochi up and you've got some creamy hummus. I mean, you could feel pretty excited and satisfied by that meat because it's just the amazing texture combination. [00:27:10] Yeah, absolutely. I agree. [00:27:11] And I think that one of the negative associations people have with veganism, which I'm not sure where it stems from. [00:27:16] I think it comes from the early punk movement that was in the 80s where a great deal of people expressing the Vegan philosophy were very, very like anorexic looking white boys walking around. And so I think that that was like somehow, because I feel like one of the negative associations is that vegans don't eat where. Pound for pound my meals and the amount of food I consume because it's so much, you know, raw and whole fruits and vegetables. It's actually quite, quite much a great deal larger than someone who's actually eating meat or cheeses, which are dense and kind of like on your plate, you know. And so I think that this huge abundance visually of food is kind of this like. [00:27:55] And now we feast, you know, kind of flips that on its head, which is delightful. I'm wondering with that. So I forgot to go over for all of my nerdy little founders out there. The logistics of can you just run us to rattle off really quickly when the website was founded? Did you have co-founders? Did you take any funding to found it? And what was originally the content of it? [00:28:17] Yep. Founded in 2015. [00:28:19] And it was basically all just purely myself and just done at the same time as my marketing job. So for the first 18 months, I was doing it alongside some needed income. [00:28:29] So just working really hard, getting used to sort of exercise at six a.m. for work. And then I just swapped it. And so instead I would get up and create content. Yeah. And then. Yes, of successively creating content constantly. And as I said, pretty badly initially. But I really wanted to work. You know, I studied hard to, you know, make myself look a bit more appealing. And then. Yeah, and then it was quite slow initially. And what I said was working at the same time. And then I got better gain, more followers, more opportunities preparing. [00:29:08] I want this organization over the award, which is amazing, about sort of eight months after I started, which was just incredible. And yet things to Rome, really. [00:29:22] And I just felt that, you know, there was only so much I could do. I'm just going to sort of take this scary leap and resign and see what happens. And then, yeah, it's just been sort of like up and down sort of rollercoaster, but absolutely amazing. And I think, you know, I always say that. And I sort of felt that if I Johnson did take the chance. I mean, at the end of the day, I could, I'm sure, get a Moxham job again. So it is when you take the risk that exciting things happen and if you sort of have confidence that you have the sort of work ethic sort of to work. And I was literally, I think most people's saying yes to absolutely everything. Yes, I can do that whether I can. But I'll I'll give it a go. Make it your house. All sorts of crazy things. And some things work. Some things were not so good. But, you know, it's all a learning process. And yeah. And then it's just sort of evolved and things have definitely changed over time. But yeah. [00:30:23] Well, to that end, I kind of want to pull on that thread a little bit just because I you know, you're across the pond and I can go on and on about the Vegan community here over the past 10 years and the change it's currently even undergoing this incredible spike. I actually really adore being on the flagship, as it were, of know the second wave of veganism in this. Because I think it's exciting to see things change and manifest, and this is where the podcast. This podcast is built out of the rhetoric and the growing change of Vegan worlds. But I want to know about the UK, which I haven't. I'm. I visit Ireland a great deal. And so I know a little bit about their scene. And I was just in Australia and Fiji and bunch of those places. [00:31:02] But the UK, it's interesting. I've spoken to about 30 people so far for the podcast and about seven or eight of those have been people located in the UK and they talk about. So there's been two schools of thought. One of them was that they felt as though, you know, the US had a greater threshold and strong stronghold on the Vegan culture and the UK was kind of behind, if you will. And taking notes from it. And conversely, I've spoken to a great deal of Americans that believe that. Well, they had one of the first institutions in, you know, just outside of London that was certifying and talking about the philosophy of the Vegan culture and had like an actual certification program in Vegan dietary cuisines and things like that. And so they believe that the UK was the four founder of it. And neither of that's important as to who was really the granddaddy or grandmother of the whole thing is not here or there for me. What I'm curious about is right now and the past, you know, over the span of your professional life, what is the growth and tone been like for the Vegan culture? I know it was neach and tiny and small, but what has it been as of the past five years in your eyes as it relates to food and your industry? [00:32:19] I think it's it's been so interesting, firstly, because when I started on my channels, my blog. It was absolutely in that initial stage. There was no one talking about it at all. [00:32:31] And, you know, a few people across the world that I had the pleasure of connecting to to make me feel less weird. But, yeah, tiny. [00:32:43] And then I don't know. It was like for me, it felt like a wash, just an explosion. And I felt those you know, there's some resistance in the press. And then it just it was like a tidal wave of acceptance, I think, in the U.K. And now it's unbelievable. [00:33:01] Of course, you know, there's been no restaurants or anything for the past few months, but. Pretty much all restaurants, you know, even in obscure areas now that they've got. Vegan options. These markets are incredible. My friend Derek Sonna has been instrumental in developing the Tesco Vegan range. And then all the other retailers pretty much followed suit and they've got huge ranges. So from our perspective on all lines, eating natural foods. Yeah. And I provide recipes that don't necessarily aren't necessarily replacement for meat. But if you if businesses are just moving into veganism or you do want something that emulates that sort of meaty taste a little bit, the ranges are huge. So, you know, there's so many options everywhere. I mean, I'd love to live in London. But, you know, directional seed in London is amazing. So, yeah, it's it's exploded. It's sort of secret. [00:34:01] So two time cookbooks, online platforms, everything. What year do you think that that happened? Can you say it like a year or a time period in which you really felt like that that change happened? Yeah, I think it was a couple of years ago that things really escalated. I think the year before it was moving and then a couple of years ago, it just exploded. You personally. [00:34:23] Do you find that with the acceptance you're able to bring in not more centric, but maybe more eclectic or, you know, it's like, let's see, maybe baking like arrowroot? [00:34:35] I mean, I couldn't find it 10 years ago without going, you know, a bit outside of town. And now, you know, those types of things are even coming down in price because of the commonality of Vegan bakers cooking with things like that, that those kinds of thickening agents. But I'm curious, do you find yourself being influenced by it as as a creator? Do you find yourself kind of broadening what you are inspiring people to cook? Like, how has that kind of infiltrated you, the way you cook and your business with this kind of acceptance opening up? [00:35:06] Yeah, I just I. [00:35:09] I don't think I've ever really created recipes specifically for vegans. I've I've always just created. I hope I try. This is my aim. [00:35:19] Really tasty, plump based food, Vegan food that I hope is accessible to everyone. Because, you know, again, this is a huge thing in the UK. And I think this is instrumental in terms of people's acceptance. It's really now, you know, this is Stovall's of people that like die hard meat eaters that, you know, would never, ever eat a Vegan meal, you know, that just quit. And now I know personally people that, like, aren't unique from Monday, I'm reducing my meat content. So that's just for me that indicates the real shift change. [00:35:51] So how would you. So how are they about recipes is. This is some really delicious veg based food. And I hope. Viegas, I like it, but parents don't like it. People that reducing meat will like it. [00:36:04] So it's open to anyone. But in terms of ingredients. Yeah, I think there's a lot more a lot more awareness night because of so much stuff in the process, so much stuff on TV, it's becoming more mainstream. Sort of weird Nishu readings. It's definitely becoming more accessible. I mean, eat. I mean, you know, I mean, there's always been these like plant based milks, but I mean, not from walks. [00:36:24] There's 20 plant based milks, you know, this far. Vegan Jesus. You know, it's just it's just amazing everywhere. And one of the sudsing workshops like what is nutritional yeast? Is it. Is it just the Yeast Munch workshops? They've provided the ingredients. I've got like a little pot of diesel, fresh yeast and like. No, no, no. Right, right. This terrines. People people know that. [00:36:51] Yeah, they do. I agree. And I like that. [00:36:53] I like I like all knowledge, you know, I don't care which can't be subscribed to you, but I want everyone to read the same information so that we can argue adequately, especially when it comes to nutrition and health and things like that, that I think are direct byproducts of the Vegan culture, which is another reason why I think the covered nineteen pandemic has resurged in, you know, acclimated regardless of its roots. And I don't even get into the wet market conversation with anyone other than friends. But the conversation with health has always been here. And I'm glad to have that be like one of the things that's most quickly attached to the Vegan lifestyle. You did drop the word and I usually wait for all of my guests to do it. You said plant based three times. So I'm going to ask you, what is your key and fundamental difference between being plant based and being Vegan and how do you define each for yourself? [00:37:42] Yes, so Vegan for me is a lifestyle choice. [00:37:46] And for me, that's more. That's that is an ethical choice, a move, a commitment to being sort of Vegan in all aspects of your lives, making commitment to have a crew, to feed lifestyle, not one lever, you know, not not having cruelty free makeup and beauty products. And it's it's a much broader lifestyle thing for me. [00:38:06] Plant based is much more centered around having a plant centric diet and embracing, you know, could be Vegan. But it's more about having a sort of, you know, a plant focus. That's OK. [00:38:22] And to that end, does plant based denote health? Because that's been the next connection that everyone's making that the marketing industry has just attached on to that and flown off into the sunset with plant based denoting organic health healthy, those types of things. [00:38:40] Does that work for you to degree? [00:38:44] Because I think that, you know, on a really basic level, including more plants and tump based derivatives and sort of natural products in your diet, for me, that's sort of an easy way to make you a little bit healthier if you're eating natural foods and plant based fruits and vegetables and fruits and things like that. [00:39:00] Vegan. In my mind, it's it's an ethical commitments. You could be healthier. Big Vegan. But it doesn't Nessus. It doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand because you can be a vegan and just eat sort of, you know, processed Vegan food. But, you know, do it for purely ethical reasons, so I find know separate. [00:39:24] Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important to separate them regardless of how one defines them. They need to be defined. I think it's crucial also to have individuals define and companies how they're using those terms. You know, because I do find that most vegans believe that that title Vegan is much more of a lifestyle and philosophy and those who are not Vegan view it as a dietary restriction. So it's an interesting, you know, disconnect, if you will, that I think is solved by defining terms, which is I think we should do more of across the board in all of society and civilization. Defining one's terms would clarify a lot of things. I want to jump quickly into the podcast. I know we're kind of coming in on time, but I loved it and I loved listening to it. And again, I spoke with Bettina, who is on this podcast series a few weeks back. [00:40:14] And I told you off the air and I kind of want to bring it back on to record right now. What I liked about it is I'm kind of picky with my podcast. It's not just because I'm a podcast host, it's because I care about information and knowledge. And then I also, you know, I care about show person, ship and flow and those types of things. And I really like your podcast. I've listened to four of them. And I think there's seven or eight total that I could find online. And I want to know when it was founded. But I really I have to put it out there that I think that the flow of information is very succinct and different. And you would think that it might be the same. I thought, oh, they're both going to be saying the same thing and simply agreeing with one another. And it's simply not what happens. You just have such different perspectives on things that you bring and augment. And then when you bring your guest on as well, I think it's just this kind of beautiful round table and you're keeping your times tight at like 20 minutes. I have to applaud you for all of those things, but I want to know when you launched it and how you kind of develop what you're going to speak about around it, because you come into some very core topics about Vegan food, Vegan culture, you know, aspects of nutrition, all of those things. So how do you curate the show? When was it founded and how do you continue moving forward? [00:41:27] So we started just recording. I think it was October last year, and then it took some time, as I'm sure you know, it's that get the guest Pennsylvanian actually available. And on the show, the producer sort of edited a little bit and then just to cut out the repetitive stuff. And then it launched in January. And then we basically launched one every week for, you know, six, seven weeks. So actually, in terms of the content, it's really quite organic because petite and I know each other really well and have quite a good sort of. Bantry dynamic, sort of slightly challenging each other and definitely aren't sort of too polite and were happy to disagree with each other. I think that's sort of naturally works. And that's really why we thought that we might be okay doing a podcast together. And then we just sort of think about what we would love to hear and what we think the audience would love to hear from the person that were having on the podcast. And of course, it doesn't necessarily always go to plan because, you know, people it's conversation and people, you know, say whatever they want, but that's what we do, really. So it's really quite organic. And we didn't necessarily know know. We didn't. We did. We did it. Yeah. Point intuitively, I would say. So if you think it's good that that's what it is. [00:42:51] I idea. And I'm picky. I think it's magnificent. I always have to preface that I am really pick and picky with my fashion and my podcasts. I cannot I don't have any leeway there, so I really do enjoy it. I hope everyone gets on. Where can everyone find it? You can find it on your website. You guys are on iTunes. [00:43:05] You're on Spotify, all the normal places. Yeah. And it's called something. So a bit cheeky. Yeah. Gotcha. I love it a lot. Yeah. I think it's appropriately titled too. [00:43:19] And it's it's easy to remember. I like that, you know. And the name I'm wondering as we wrap up today, I wish we could talk longer. I always wish that. [00:43:30] But with you particularly so I'm wondering how what you think I do want you to be brazen here, because I think that those are kind of the best answers and people are afraid to talk about the future, particularly more so now. But where do you see some of the biggest changes and movements happening for the Vegan industry in so much as it affects health as as a subsequent effect from diet and and food? Where do you see the next five to 10 years playing out? If you had to kind of surmise from everything you've experienced thus far. [00:44:10] Honestly, I don't know. [00:44:11] I think the world is in such flux at the moment. I mean, I think that, you know, the ground for me, I feel it's shifting by the day. So things which felt normal and you can maybe make prediction last week. Something is happening today and everything's changed, so. [00:44:29] But I do feel that on the whole, people are just becoming way more aware, you know, in terms of society and health, in terms of that diet, in terms of, you know, ethical and moral decisions. And, you know, I think this lockdown situation has given people the headspace to actually think about things in a way that isn't important. You know, what do I want to do? [00:44:52] Am I going to change things? [00:44:53] And you know what's good, what's good for the planet, what's good for me. But, you know, am I do all this stuff and I don't need to be doing it. So I don't know. I'm really hopeful because I think that. [00:45:04] Yes, it's like it's like a weird reset and people thinking things much more. [00:45:10] And also in terms of sort of what food people are cooking more, so they're thinking about what they're putting on the table, having to think about it, you know, three times a day and getting more engaged with it. So so generally, I think I'm I mean, I didn't think, you know, being a strength was going away anyway. But just because people are much more conscious and aware now, I think, ever before. I think you just continue to grow. [00:45:37] I agree with you. [00:45:38] And I think the demystification of food and the the re conversation that people are having with the food that they thought they knew, you know, is is part of that beautiful natural evolution that you describe happening. That is, it wasn't going away before and is probably augmented with the most recent endeavor. [00:45:58] Well, Niki, we're out of time, but I want to say thank you so much for all of your conversation today. I really enjoyed it. And I hope everybody tunes in, listens to your podcast, jumps on your website and checks out your cookbook. [00:46:09] Thank you so much for having me. All of it. Absolutely. And for all of you listening, thank you so much for giving us your time. [00:46:15] We have been speaking with Niki Webster. She's a cookbook author, food consultant and stylist. She just had her first book come out. Rebel Recipes. And you can also jump online. W w. W. Rebel recipes, dot com. Check out her podcast from there as well. She's got a ton of wonderful YouTube, blogs, recipes, consultancy information. There's so many great things. And thank you for giving us your time today until we speak again next time. [00:46:40] Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am talking with Stormi Scott. Stormi is the Business Development Manager for Leverage, a software and education platform designed to help small business owners and property investors make more informed and empowered financing decisions. Stormi began her career at one of the largest financial institution in 2016 and through hard work and determination, she advanced herself within the banking system and became a Branch Manager at a Regional Bank.    During her time in the banking industry, Stormi saw firsthand some of the struggles business owners face when seeking financing and her experiences inspired her to want to help create a system to empower better outcomes for all small businesses seeking financing going forward. With Leverage, Stormi hopes to provide small business owners, entrepreneurs, and property investors an advantage in the financing process - and empower them to start their funding conversation like never before.   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.  TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with business development manager at Leverage Stormi Scott. Key points addressed were Stormi professional history in retail and banking industries that brought her to her work with leverage. We also address some interesting fundamentals in the world of business, credit and financing that are largely unknown by the communities in which they are meant to serve. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Stormi Scott.   [00:00:30] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:27] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia, today I am excited to be sitting down with Stormi Scott. Stormi is a business development manager at Leverage. You can find out more about the company and everything we talk about today at leverage calc dot com. That is l e v e r a g e c a l c dot com. Welcome Stormi.   [00:01:49] Hello. Thank you so much for having me today.   [00:01:51] Absolutely. I'm excited to claim through everything that you're doing at leverage for everyone listening. This podcast will follow the same in the series with the trajectory and the inquiries based out of the similar direct trajectory, namely a roadmap for that will be. We'll look at stories, academic and professional background, and then we'll turn towards unpacking her work as a business development manager at Leverage and what leverage is we'll get into when it was founded. The transitions, how it's grown, all of those things. And we'll talk about funding for it and it being a financial company, it's quite interesting. Then we'll unpack Stormi's goals and plans for the future. We'll look at how those have changed, perhaps with the most recent COVID 19 pandemic wrap everything up with a half an hour with advice for me has for those of you who are looking to get involved or perhaps emulate some of her success before I start peppering her with questions. A quick bio on Stormi Stormi. Scott is the business development manager for Leverage, a software and education platform designed to help small business owners and property investors make more informed and empowered financing decisions. Swarmy began her career at one of the largest financial institutions in 2016, and through hard work and determination, she advanced herself within the banking system and became a branch manager at Regional Bank. During her time in the banking industry, Stormi saw firsthand some of the struggles business owners face when seeking financing, and her experiences inspired her to want to help create a system to empower better outcomes for small businesses seeking financial financing. Going forward with leverage, Stormi hopes to provide small business owners, entrepreneurs and property investors an advantage in the financing process and empower them to start their funding conversation like never before. So start me. I'm excited to kind of climb through that. I think that now is a really appropriate time to be talking about the work that leverage is doing. But before we get into that, I'm hoping you can draw our audience kind of academic and professional background of who you are and who you have been up until your point of working as a business development manager for leverage.   [00:03:57] Yes. So let's just dove right into that. So I come from a family that had very little money growing up. You know, I had to be very, very independent and grow very fast. I learned at a very young age that if I wanted something more out of life, you know, I really would really have to rely on myself. So I got my first job at the age of 15 at Subway, which I have to tell you was the biggest deal to me at that time to earn my own money, you know, and at that time, I actually did have to pay rent to help my mom with like household expenses. But I didn't mind that whatsoever. You know, I continued working throughout my high school, and once I graduated high school, I actually landed a job at a family owned department store. And I continued by getting promoted. And that's what everyone was going off to college. And I just made the decision at that time not to. And really because at that age, you know, I was making good money and I actually had people who worked under me at the time who just graduated from college, who couldn't get a job in their field. And, you know, they would tell me about the struggle that they went through, having all of the student loans and having to pay them off. And, you know, I just decided that if I continue to work hard, I could get where I wanted to. You know, my my experiences and, you know, I did take classes here and there. But, you know, then I did get into like you said, I started my career in banking and I started off working for one of the largest financial institutions. And I found such a passion for helping people with their finances. And one of my favorite parts of my job was actually teaching financial education classes. I went to different businesses and talk to their employees, and I taught at different schools in organizations like Dress for Success and Homeless Shelters. You know, I just I just loved providing that, you know, free financial education because we don't get taught that and, you know, throughout our school years, I just think it's so important. So I then became a branch manager. I actually I'm originally from Iowa. And a couple of years ago, I made the loans to the East Coast, and that's when I became a branch manager for a regional bank excuse me. And that's when I really started working with small businesses. And, you know, I meant many business owners and belt really great relationships. And I just learned the struggle that business owners face when it came to obtaining. Saying, first off, some business owners just honestly didn't know what business credit.   [00:06:31] You know, that that was even a thing which was kind of shocking, but it was true. So it was all about educating them and learning kind of how to build business credit, which is great. Being able to help them do that. But the part that was kind of frustrating for me was when I had a business owner apply for any type of funding and they were being declined or they were being approved for like only a portion of what they would apply for. And that, unfortunately, happened a lot. It was mainly just due to the fact that my finance institution at that time, they are a very, very conservative lender. So you really need to fit in that bank box to be approved. And what I mean by that is, like you really have to meet the requirements. And of course, that's not the case everywhere. Every lender has different loan options, different requirements that you need to meet. But anyways, I wanted to just always be on the side of supporting and educating business owners and entrepreneurs. And I didn't want to do that bad guy delivering bad news. I mean, if anyone is listening and has ever gone to that financing process and got I got a no, it's a horrible feeling. And, you know, so I sat there and I was like, is this really what I wanted to do with my career?   [00:07:46] Or do I want to get into a position where I am able to go out kind of on my own and help more people? So my father in law has a family owned business in the real estate world and in software. And so I decided to get involved with a software company because I loved what it offered business owners. And I didn't really want to stay in that corporate world and limit my career. So when I had the opportunity, I became the business development manager for the financing software. And here I am.   [00:08:17] Yeah, absolutely. So I want to be clear. Going back over as a quick description and I'll have you kind of unpack it for us as well, looking at leverage. But it's a software and education platform designed to help small business owners and property investors make more empowered financing decisions, according from your bio. Yeah, and and I want you to kind of unpack the the real terms of what that means and what it looks like and point to examples and things like that. Before we get to that, I do want to cover the logistics for everybody listening. This podcast series started three years ago with founders and entrepreneurs. And so we always cover the same top three, which was when was it founded? Who were the founders and how long have you been working there?   [00:09:01] Yeah. So a little bit of background on the company. So, John, my father in law, like I said, he's a very successful real estate developer and had when he was actually creating  the software, he had plenty of like venture capital, capital and investor interest in the software. But he truly just decided to self-funded to maintain 100 percent ownership and keep it a private company so he could really keep it family owned. And, you know, that really gave us a lot of flexibility with what we offer and for us to have our mission be our own and not have to answer to, you know, to anyone. So we really like that. And we allowed it allowed us to determine where our product is a best fit and like enter the market. So I personally started with leverage back in December of this year, and leverage was really created to level the playing field for everyone who was going for business, finance or commercial property financing. So our mission is all about empowering people for the financing discussion because we know that or in five businesses fail within the first five years due to not getting the capital that they need. So, you know, we we all know how it goes when you initially start that conversation with the lender and the feeling that people get. And even for the most experienced bah bah, we're it's a little bit of trepidation all the way to absolutely dreading it.   [00:10:26] And it's like, why is that? And it's because, like, you're going and not knowing what the lender is going to say.   [00:10:32] You walk and having no idea of the outcome. So how it started was John actually partnered with a commercial banker to write the algorithm for the underwriting and our calculators that we offer. So our original platform was created in 2016 and it was named commercial loan success. And that actually had thousands of customers who vetted over a billion dollars worth of deal flow through that original form over the years. But that platform really was for that experienced borrower who, you know, that experienced business owner who was connecting to a traditional bank. And we know that many, many businesses cannot get a loan from like a traditional bank due to, you know, this or that. So we wanted to create leverage, which is our platform now that allows business owners and property investors at any point in their career. You know, if you're. Starting out or you've been in business for 30 years, either way, you have the ability to determine if you are pre qualified for the financing that you're seeking. And what was really cool that I loved and like when I got involved was, you know, we got told by third party reviews from the software that, you know, it's a look under the hood of commercial underwriting and that has never been done or seen before. You know, most people don't realize how a bank underwrites you. You know, how does your commercial loan long get underwritten? Like what factors determine how much they give you? You know, people just don't know. Patricia, you are such an experienced business owner, like have you ever been through the process and you know.   [00:12:09] Yes, absolutely. I mean, I do have a familiarity in this just because I'm not a young entrepreneur anymore, but I do understand that the actual ignorance of what's entailed and things that are considered is daunting to people and not really thought of until they go and do it. And once they do have the information, it's usually based on things that they wish they had altered or changed prior to applying for loans. And I'm guessing that that's what your company has gone in and kind of solved then and suggested. Do you guys suggest that people get on and find out what their business credit is prior to even thinking about a business loan just out of ways to fix it? And curiosity? I'm thinking of these ways that people credit karma in places that help you clean things up. Does your company advise to that end as well?   [00:13:03] So no matter what with anything. I always recommend that a business look at their credit. I mean, it's actually kind of shocking because like I said before, and my banking for talking to business owners and they had no idea business credit was even a thing. And when I looked into it further, it was like half of all the small businesses didn't even know that business like you have a business credit score. And it's like, why is it important? So definitely because obviously building business credit is so important and part of growing your business, you know, a good business credit score can enable you to move easily to acquire financing. And it also like increases the value of your company and all. And another reason, protecting your personal credit. So the first step is always ensuring if you want to finance the financing process to go very smoothly for you, start with your business credit. Really see all your business credit reports. You can go to the three credit bureaus for business as Experian, Equifax, and of course, of course, that in Broadstreet I always recommend, hey, you can go in there, get your business credit report, see what's on there, see what's affecting your credit. You'd be amazed. I mean, it goes as well as personal credit. You'd be amazed if you see any errors that are just sitting there and nobody knows the look and pull it. And then you just find this area that's been affecting you and that's why you can't get business financing. So definitely. Yes, start there.   [00:14:33] Yeah. When someone arrives at your site, how are they already in need of business financing or do you have people that are also just kind of perusing educational basis of how to kind of look at business financing and business credit?   [00:14:49] Usually they're ready to take that step. They're ready to find financing, especially with the with the business calculators. You know, you're able to go and see if you qualify for a loan line of credit, Tahmoor equipment, like whatever you're trying to jail. But what about another thing that I do find for our property investor calculators is that if you are a property investor and you're thinking about getting involved in a property, are screeners are going to be able to allow you to know if you're able to get financing for that building, which is so valuable. So you don't want to get involved in a transaction and find out you're not going to be able to get financing for that property. So that kind of you know, you can go in and sanity check a property as much as you like before getting involved. So that's kind of where that educational piece would fit and suit bound for that property investor.   [00:15:41] Right. Do you find with them? I mean, you mentioned property management. And I think anybody who's been on the news over the past three months has recognized that it's kind of a tenuous time. What have you guys spoken to the COVA 19 pandemic opening properties and, you know, some of them were major cities and having, you know, a fluctuating rent coming in and things of that nature. People not able to provide rent. The government stepping in a little bit later. Landlords taking the bill for that. Do you have any have you implemented any new verbiage or considered any new systems given there, like the recent state of affairs in dealing with property management, things like that?   [00:16:20] Yeah. So actually, I'm glad that you brought that up. So we heard from a lot of a lot of businesses, a lot of property investors who had who had a lot of issues. And one thing that we did on the property side is we actually added refinancing calculators to all of our property calculators. So therefore, that's what a lot of people were doing. They're like, OK, I'm not going to be able to get rent, what am I going to do? And they want to park cash from their building. So they went in and tried to see if they could refinance a out cash to kind of weather the store.   [00:16:53] And then when it came to the business side, a lot of businesses were like, I'm going to you know, I'm applying for the BPP. I'm trying to see if I can get help from the government. And we were just I was sort of saying, hey, like you came out. Wait. You have to be proactive like it's your business if you are needing financing now to kind of bridge that gap. With everything going on right now, it was hard, though, because we had a lot of people who came to us and was like, why went to my lender that I banked with and been with for years? And they're not able to give me a loan right now. So that was a huge hard part was we didn't know who was lending and what the rules were. They were constantly changing. So we actually dropped Cauvin.   [00:17:37] We partnered with a loving capital because we wanted to create a database which is called Leverage Connecting, and we wanted to create that database for those people who were struggling to find the lenders that were lending.   [00:17:51] And we were just saying, go and see if you can see, you know, trying the software green. And if you can, you can for a digital platform, connect with a lender that is ready to lend to you and find you really faster.   [00:18:06] Nice. Do you have. Do you have areas of aid when someone comes in and discovers that their business, credit or lending capital isn't what they wish that it was? Do you have affiliates or people, other companies that you work with in order to help people kind of repair their credit?   [00:18:26] So we don't have that like we don't work with any other companies at this time. But we do have a really good resource center. So it's kind of like, you know, different articles, different blogs and different. I'm just giving free education on kind of what your first steps are. And I always like to provide my information. If anybody wants, like, a 30 minute consultation with me and sit down and kind of look to see where where things are at.   [00:18:52] I'm always happy to do that because that's what I enjoy doing, right? Yeah.   [00:18:58] I mean, to look at what you said, to look under the hood of the underwriting community. What can you kind of illuminate for everyone listening today about what that entails? When you're looking at business, credit and business loan industries.   [00:19:13] Yeah. So let's kind of go back in the day like you were really able to sit with the decision maker. You know, you could walk into a bank and sit down with, like the head of commercial lending and do a transaction. And that person you were sitting with had the authority to pretty much give you the deal right now with, you know, oh, and everything. Like, so much has changed. And you have that relationship banker, you know, out in front to do all the paperwork. And then the underwriter is just completely a ghost, in my opinion. You know, the banker will advocate and fight for your loan. But they do not make the decisions at the end of the day. You know, you have a customer comes in and applies for an eighty thousand dollar loan and they're like, oh, you know, we can only approve you for 50. And then the customer sitting there like, why? And you can't have you don't have any communication with that underwriter to really provide a solid answer. And I can't tell you how many other customers I would come to me in my drinking days who would go to try to get something from a different financial institution. And they didn't receive they just received a letter in the mail saying, oh, your your transaction has been declined. And that was no reason. So I just think, like, a huge, huge, huge problem is the miscommunication of what they were really needing from from the customer.   [00:20:37] And I mean, I feel like the two biggest reasons that it's difficult for people to get approved for a bank loan is just them themselves walking in not prepared, you know, not knowing what they need and how much they really think is realistic for their business.   [00:20:53] People come in with unrealistic expectations. And when you go in for getting any type of financing, you never want to walk into a situation being unprepared and not knowing the outcome especially like, women.I feel like it is so much harder for us to dive into something completely blind and not knowing what will happen in the at like we as women would probably not do it. We're like, no, thank you. I'm good. I'll use my personal credit credit cards, which is horrible. Horrible idea, but true because, you know, you're going into a financing system that at times are stacked against you.   [00:21:30] And so you need to level the playing field and navigate that system with confidence. So that's why, you know, we have the technology now that's available to you. And we just with leverage, we want to answer a simple question like, are you financeable, yes or no? And if it's a yes, you know, and maybe you're having a bank tell, you know, you need to feel comfortable with going to the next lender because like I said before, every lenders are different. There's so many different alternative lenders out there. You know, you can get the financing you need, but you we have to say no because you don't fit their aren't requirements. And, you know, maybe you've only been in business for a year and a half and they need you to be in business for. Two years and, you know, you never know what they're looking for.   [00:22:12] And I mean, now, if you are not getting financed instead of, like, bearing embarrassing yourself in front of a lender, you can take the steps inside the software to become finance. Also, you can go back in the software and see where things must improve to realistically move forward before speaking to a lender. So maybe you need more revenue, maybe a cosigner come into play. If it's credit on, if you have high expenses, like how much do you need to cut back on your expenses, do that. That question is answer within the software. So really, just doing what you can do on your end to be fully prepared before going and speaking to a lender is going to change that conversation and you are going to have such a better outcome. And I always like to say, like, nobody knows the outcome when you're going in and putting your dad into the software because, you know, you're at home, you're at your office desk and you run an analysis. And if you're prequalified, like you go out, when you get freaking empowered, you take that report and give it to that lender. And what we tell our customers is to say, I use a third party software that tells me I'm qualified for this loan. Would you like to continue the conversation with me? And that's pretty much just saying, you know, can you do this deal? Yes or no? And you, the borrower, we're just completely turned the table around because that wonder why you're coming in as one of the most prepared borrowers. And that's not like us. You know, asset leverage saying no. But that's actually feedback that we've received from banks because, well, they've hit up our customer service line being like, where can we get more of these leverage customers? Because they're coming in prepared. And it's making light on them easier, right?   [00:23:55] Yeah. And I think it's crucial to remember that banks are as humaine or as responsible or exploitative as we make them. Yeah. As people. And they haven't been required to be they've been draconian. You know, two thousand eight pointed that out. But even since the repair and things like that and that industries is far from good. And I think that companies like this that return information, education and power back over to the borrower is crucial in moving forward with their financial systems. On the whole. I'm wondering, how does your model work personally with the software? Is it subscription? Is it a one time purchase? How does all of that happen with the and other aspects of tools for free? The calculators. How does all of that play?   [00:24:41] Yeah. So when John was actually pricing the software, how many people actually were telling him to put a one in front of the prices just because like because of the value of what you get from from the calculators. But he didn't want to do that because we didn't want price being a way of getting people into the software and becoming empowered. So it is on a subscription base. So for fifty seven dollars a month is a monthly plan. And that's great for anybody doing like a short one term financing transaction with no additional financing or refinancing predicted.   [00:25:15] And that is a pay as you go cancel any time. And then we also have the one 97 four annual plan. And that's perfect for that person who wants to like sanity, China's new financing opportunities. You will be doing more than one transaction in the year.   [00:25:31] It allows you to preserve your dashboard of data for refinancing purposes. And that plan does include like a 30 day. No questions asked. Money guarantee as well with our software. So anybody who is looking at business or business finance calculator is a cash flow tool that really determines that first reaction of a lender. So you go in and how you use as you input your business information, your expenses, revenue, any add backs that you can put back and you can pretty much string that software green, that means your business is lendable and you can walk into a bank feeling confident. And like I said before, if it's not green, you can really see where your numbers must improve to realistically afford. And then with our property calculators, we have three different ones, multifamily, commercial and mixed use.   [00:26:23] And they all have refinanced calculators, the tops of them, like I said, due to Coalbed. And those actually do really, truly do prete underwriting for those properties. So it really depends on who you are and what you're looking to do for those those type platers. It's an awesome tool for anybody who is looking to invest in commercial property to determine if you're able to obtain financing for that property. Like I said and in addition to that, with each calculator also provides you a leverage report, which is just personalizing financing for containing the transaction metrics that lenders are looking for to initiate and completely jump start that funding conversation. And when a lender receives a leverage report. Look at it and understand it and read exactly what you're wanting to do. Less than two bet. So really, like I said, yes. An opposition gets going.   [00:27:18] Absolutely. I'm curious, what are the plans for leverage for the next one to three years? Is there going to be growth within the utility? And also, before I let it go about the conversation. I mean, it begs the question, especially with the breach some four years ago. Do you guys sell information even anonymously about your accounts or do you share it with other people, lenders, things of that nature? Is it all private and confidential?   [00:27:43] It is all private and confidential. We are a cloud based software, so everything is protected with your username and password. And one thing that we really wanted to be clear about was that when it comes to when you connect with a lender like that, is you connecting with them? We are completely not in the line of loan detail. So once you utilize our software and take that leverage report and then from there it's on you. We don't want to be involved in any other life long process. But so far, our goal is so what?   [00:28:21] With leverage. We've only been in the market for a couple of months now with this new platform leverage. Calkin and you'll like it. This is the sister app from the original, you know, and it's been getting a lot of good traction. We figure that we can be over a thousand users by early fall and hoping for 10000 by next spring and just kind of continuing from there. And some may say that's a little ambitious by our platform is really unique. And, you know, there is nothing in the marketplace that allows business owners the ability to become prequalified. You want to go out and buy your first home without getting prequalified first. Right. So same same kind of thing. But what that also comes like our challenges. You know, when you have a product that no one's really searching for because they don't know what's out there, you really have to you know, it's my job as the business development manager to really organically spread the word. You know, I work on that every day, connecting to people, making connections with people to just helps spread the word of what our software can do. And in an expanding and other goals that we have. We definitely do want to expand into developing some more calculators. There are some unique calculators that we want to kind of get into for different business settings that we can create to serve and empower those businesses like company on building, self-storage, mobile, home, park flippers as a flipping is huge right now. But our our property circulars are really geared toward commercial properties. So that's five units and up. It's not that residential. Wanted to add those flippers. So that's definitely what we want to get into for sure.   [00:30:05] This sounds wonderful. It sounds advantageous since it's going to be a busy ride. Yeah. Closing in Stormi towards the end of the podcast and I have my final question that everyone who listens to this series knows. I always ask and that is if you were out and about this a social distance tomorrow and you bumped into another woman or female identified by another individual who said, listen, you know, I've I have gotten a really great footing in the occupational industry. I've I've done a lot of different career paths. I started off in retail, managing people. I went on I did a bunch of the banking information industry and I now I'm gonna kind of go into this and family run and bad business, credit, financial enterprise.   [00:30:51] What are the top three pieces of advice you would give the individual knowing what you know now from your endeavors?   [00:30:57] That's a really good question. I would have to say for me, giving advice throughout kind of going around that the same career path is really just getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. Like if you don't get out of your comfort zone, you might find yourself staying in one place and never seizing different opportunities because you are scared. Like, if I didn't do that, I would not be where I am today. And I really, truly believe that being that discomfort brings engagement and change. And it means that you're doing something that others are and do not be scared of failure if something is not very new to you. Like go out and treat failure as an asset and learn from it. And when you go out of your way to experience new things or when you let things happen to you, you gain so much in terms of personal development. So my advice is get out there and show up for yourself.   [00:31:56] Nice. I love that. I've got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Do not be scared of failure. Use it as an asset and get out there and engage. You'll love it.   [00:32:11] That's so wonderful. Well, Stormi, we thank you so much for taking the time to meet with us and discuss leverage. I really appreciate it. I think it's been eye opening and kind of considering these aspects of business, credit and lending. And I'm hoping that everyone in the audience found as useful as I did. I appreciate your time today.   [00:32:29] No, thank you so much for having me. And like I said, if anybody wants to reach out to me, please reach out to me personally. My email stormi s-t or am I that Scott ncdot at leverage kelts and that's c a l c dot com. I'd be more than happy to talk to anyone.   [00:32:46] Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that little personal reach out and I'm sure there's plenty of people that need your advice. So thank you again. And for everyone listening, thank you for giving us your time today. We've been speaking with Stormi Scott, business development manager at Leverage. The company's Web site is again leveraged seei l.c dot com. Until we speak your next time. Thank you for your time. And remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am speaking with Katrina Fox. Katrina is an award-winning journalist, publicity consultant, editor of the vegan business blog VeganBusinessMedia.com, host of Vegan Business Talk podcast and author of Vegan Ventures: Start and Grow an Ethical Business, the first global book providing success strategies for aspiring and existing vegan business owners, and founder of the Plant Powered Women’s Network global ethical leadership community.  Key points addressed were  Katrina’s animal advocacy and how her written journalist and book work have all been in effort to aid the core tenants of that advocacyWe also discussed many common issues vegan businesses have in regards to PR and market engagement and how she has designed tools to dissolve these problems and enable vegan companies to thrive. This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:01] In this episode, I speak with journalist, author, founder and PR consultant Katrina Fox. Key points addressed were Katrina's animal advocacy and how her written journalist and book work have all been in effort to aid the core tenants of that advocacy. We also discussed many common issues Vegan businesses have in regards to PR and market engagement and how she has designed tools to dissolve these problems and enable Vegan companies to thrive. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Katrina Fox. [00:00:43] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:40] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Katrina Fox. Katrina is a journalist, author, founder and PR consultant. You can find out more about her services as well as everything we talk about in today's podcast at w w w dot. Katrina Fox dot com as well as w w w dot Vegan business media dot com. Welcome. Katrina. [00:02:04] Hello, Patricia. It's a pleasure to be with you today all the way across the pond. [00:02:10] Thank you. Katrina earlier today, I'm excited we could make our schedules work as well. I look forward to diving into everything that you're doing, just talking off the air that Katrina is kind of based her consultancy in an industry that I think is going to blow up and is already blowing up, but perhaps even more so. [00:02:29] For those of you that are new to the podcast. I will give you a brief bio on Katrina before I ask her to further elaborate on that and her history and then get into some of her current endeavors. But before we get to that, a quick roadmap for today's podcast. We will look. As I said, it triggered some of Katrina's past histories, professional, academic, anything that ties into her current story as it pertains to what she's doing now. I'll also ask her to unpack her personal Vegan journey as it pertains to all of the areas that we'll be talking about today. And then we'll look at unpacking Katrina's work in three different sectors. Namely, we'll look at her podcast, her book and her online courses, and we'll see if we can kind of suss out her ethos and business philosophies as they stand within that. Before we do those three things, however, we will also ask Katrina to kind of decipher and self-defined key terms that tend to create heated debate and topic within the Vegan world and community will climb upon those just asking for some personal definitions. So we all have clarity as to how we're defining things. And we'll wrap all of the podcast up with advice for those of you that are looking to get involved with Katrina, as well as maybe some of the predictions that she has for the next five or so years on the horizon. Things have changed greatly over the world landscape with the covered 19 pandemic. So this is an area that's changed a lot for people when they go to look forward. As promised, before I start peppering her with questions, a quick bio. Katrina Fox is an award winning journalist, publicity consultant, editor of the Vegan business blog Vegan. Business Media dot com, host of Vegan Business Talk podcast and author of Vegan Ventures Start and Grow an Ethical Business. The first global book providing success strategies for aspiring and existing Vegan business owners and founder of the plant powered women's network Global Ethical Leadership Community. [00:04:20] Oh, can I Pause you there. Sorry. That must be an old bio. It's actually now called the Vegan Women's Leadership Network. [00:04:27] OK. All right. [00:04:28] There was a trademark issue. So I changed the name. It's called the Vegan Women's Leadership Network. Sorry about that. I thought I'd updated the BIOS ladder first there. [00:04:38] Anyway, better. So well done. She has. Let's see. She's written extensively for niche and mainstream media for 18 years on animal advocacy, ethical business and was a regular Forbes contributor for years specializing in writing about Vegan and plant based businesses. A Vegan of 22 years, Katrina teaches Vegan business owners how to do their own PR and get free media coverage through their signature on through her signature online courses and group coaching program begins in the limelight. A passionate animal advocate, Katrina one, the voiceless, the Animal Protection Institute Media Prize for her article, Speciesism The Final Frontier for Australian National Broadcaster. The ABC is the drum Web site. Her work has been featured in the books Circles of Compassion Essays Connecting Issues of Justice, edited by Wil Tuttle and Plant Power of Women. Pioneering female Vegan leaders share their vision for a healthier, greener, more compassionate world. Edited by Cathy Divine. She lives with her wife Tracey and loves glitter and Internet cat videos. And as I said before, you can find her on W WW Katrina, Foxconn and Vegan business media dot com. So Katrina, before we kind of climb into all of the endeavors that you're currently involved with, as well as a book that I know came out in, I think 2015, I was hoping you could draw us a landscape of where you kind of came from regarding your academic and professional life and your personal Vegan story as it brought you into what you're doing now. [00:06:13] Yeah, sure. So I've always had an affinity with animals, and I actually went vegetarian at the age of 11, although I didn't know the word. I asked my mum what the beef burger was made of that we would eat. And when she told me it was a cow. I was absolutely horrified. And I made the connection between the roast chicken on Sunday and the fish fingers. And so I just said, I'm not eating animals anymore. That didn't go down very well. So I was brought up in class at a working class family just outside of South London in the UK, where I'm originally from. But, you know, I stuck to my guns. It took me a while to get to veganism. It took me till about 1997, 96, 97, to learn about the dairy industry and the cruelty involved in all of that. But once the penny dropped, then, you know, I was all in. And, you know, I've been involved in animal rights activism as well as other social justice issues and in terms of professional career. [00:07:05] For the first sort of part of my earliest of adult life, I basically was involved in performing arts. So my original degrees in performing arts and then around the Yes brand, about the similar time that I went vague and actually I retrained as a journalist. And so it worked on mainstream Masche and specialist trade media throughout my career, freelanced and written all pets on animal advocacy and other topics for mainstream media. And as you mentioned, they had a column in Forbes for a year writing about Vegan and plant based business. So I ran about to 2015 when I wrote the book was really when I tried to meld my I guess my my passion with my profession. And so I wrote the book because there was nothing else on the market specifically for Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs. And I interviewed over 60 Vegan entrepreneurs and waved their insights throughout the book, which is a how to guide on how to start and run a business of any kind to run it on Vegan principles. [00:08:10] Then I decided to start a podcast because I love interviewing people. And once I finished the book, I was like, Oh, I've finished my interviews. I want to carry on interviewing people. So that's why I launched the podcast and then the blog. So I didn't really, to be perfectly honest, I didn't really have a business plan per say. I just kind of I just was drawn to doing these things. And I thought, well, I'll just kind of put them out there and I'll work it out as I go along. I'm not necessarily recommending that as a strategy, although I do know other business owners who have done something similar with different businesses. But that's just the journey that I went on. And then I created the course. I realized people needed to know how to get into the media and do PR. [00:08:47] Not everyone's got a budget to hire a publicist or a PR firm. So that's why I created the online course. And now I do consulting and coaching and just working with my ideal clients, which I love, which are a Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs. [00:09:02] Yeah, it's interesting you so you have this kind of gateway. It is as a young child into the vegetarian life, you know, through compassion and animals. What was do you think it was the same kind of moment of compassion and animals that led you on your Vegan journey, or was there a distinct difference between that and how it impacted? Because you have this unique view of, you know, being able to approach it from a business standpoint, too. And there's obvious relationships and correlations about sustainability that tie into good business measures and things like that. But what was the churn from you into switching from vegetarian to veganism, or was it kind of a natural progression? [00:09:38] I only wish I would've done if I'd have known then what I knew about the dairy industry back when I was a child 11, I would have stopped eating dairy and stopped wearing an and all of it. So it was definitely my I've definitely come from. I know some people. I know you're gonna talk about terminology. I mean, a little bit. But if veganism is about doing the least harm as as is practically possible. You know, in terms of not using, abusing or exploiting or commodifying animals. And that's a paraphrase of the UK Bacon Society's definition back in I think it was around nineteen forty five. So that's basically ice by two veganism as a philosophy, as a way of living, of doing the least possible harm. So eliminating animal products as much as you practically can from your life. So I've been involved in feminist movement and when I was at college, at uni and when I was on an animal rights demonstration, actually about vivisection, about kittens being bred for baby section in the UK. And a lovely school teacher was on the coach of the bus taking us up to this demo in Oxford. And I pulled out my sandwich. I still would you like a Vegemite and cheese sandwich? And she said, Oh, no, I'm Vegan. I don't eat cheese. And I said, Oh, it's vegetarian. Cheese is no animal ran in it. And then she explained to me about the dairy industry and about all these myths of happy cows and what actually happens to cows, you know, the female reproductive system being hijacked and forced, you know, forcibly inseminated babies taken away from. And I was just shocked. And I was I was extra shocked because as a feminist that really, you know, as someone who obviously believes in, you know, women having. Body autonomy. I was just horrified and shocked and I thought, how did I not know this? How did I miss this? You know, I've been involved in and around sort of animal rights for a little while back in the late 80s. But I kind of I don't somehow miss the bacon memo then. So it was very much an ethical decision. And once I knew I was one of those people that pretty much went Vegan straight away. I mean, obviously, there were some things that needed to be phased out gradually but quite quickly. And I was obviously a privileged enough to do that in terms of shoes, you know, switching out the leather shoes. But food wise, it was pretty much I got home and I said to my wife, Tracy. Right. I said, we're now. I said, well, I'm vague. And I said, if you want cheese, you'll have to buy it yourself. I was responsible for doing the food shopping. And we kind of went from there. And I can tell you, it was 24 years ago now. I think I went Vegan. And back then it was it was quite tricky, especially in terms of the cheese. They were tasted rubber back then. So it's been pretty exciting seeing that developments that were going on, but very much an ethical decision for me. [00:12:15] Yeah. And I have your your fellow country mate, Bhavani and I spoke some number months ago about cheese. Actually, I kind of I think I went off on a terror. Just Vegan cheese has been one of those things that in at least in my humble Vegan tenure of under a decade and the Greeks, God bless the Greeks because they were the first people that got, you know, Vegan cheese right for me. And I think it was their perception of olive oil and things like that. But it's over the past five years, it's the change of Vegan cheese has been astronomically to my life. [00:12:46] It's so brilliant, isn't it? And we recently now in Australia, like Pizza Hut and Domino's of Pizzas with the Vegan cheese on. And it's just so nice. So I'm I deliberately have one, you know, like at least a couple of months just because I can I can lie after 24 years, I can finally have pizza with cheese on again. So yeah. And it's just amazing, all the brilliant products that are coming out that are, you know, just so realistic, full of flavor and just. Yeah, it's game changing. [00:13:14] Speaking of products, this is a good gateway into kind of defining some terms. And I'd like to kind of jump right into the hottest one, which is how do you get between Vegan and plant based? What do each. What does each term mean independently to you and how do you define them? [00:13:30] Yeah, it's an interesting one. I wrote a whole article for Forbes on that because it is such a, I guess, a hot potato. So Vegan as always. I think Vegan up until now, until it became I guess started to become more mainstream, more mainstream, started to accept a little bit more, became a little bit more, quote, trendy. It typically always meant, you know, the ethical side of things that you as someone who you know, who didn't eat or consume or where you know, any products that involved any kind of use of animals or animal ingredients, etc. Then when it started to kind of take off, people started to describe themselves as Vegan, whereas actually they were plant based. So the difference really for me in terms of plant based, plant based is when you eat it, it's very much based on food, because generally think about plant based shoes, for example, a plant based fashion, but it's typically what you eat. And it's kind of about you. It's not you know, typically people go plant based for health, for example, or perhaps for the planet. Some people might go plant based for the animals, but typically it tends to be, you know, for your own reasons. And it's very centered around food. So someone could be eating plant based but still wear leather. So that could kind of give a little bit of a differentiation. Now, unfortunately, what's happened is some companies, while using the term plant based to say, oh, it's mainly plants. And that's really frustrating because, you know, for most with plant based simply meant that you don't eat any kind of animal product. But now they're trying to kind of twist plant based a little, which is why personally, I love the word vague and because it literally kind of means, you know, you don't eat. I mean, sometimes people again, sometimes people are using the term Vegan when they mean plant based. So it can be a little bit of a mix up. But for me, Vegan is he knows it's someone who lives by the philosophy of veganism. So, you know, you eliminate animal use, ingredients, products, etc from all areas of your life, whereas plant based is more about eating food. And then of course, there's whole food plant based, which is people who don't eat, they don't have oil or gluten or a whole bunch of other stuff. To me, that's quite different to veganism. And how do you do? [00:15:42] If I look at foods, I always say it's it's I feel like my Whole Foods brothers and sisters are the ones that talk about whether or not it's head of factory and like the Whole Foods people, if it's been industrialized or more than likely going to kind of shun it, you know, anything that had to be extracted or. [00:15:59] Yes. Or processed. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of. Yeah. There are other terms that you or other ways you clarify Whole Foods. It's not really. I mean, I just see I mean, I see a whole mix actually, even on the whole food. Based, you know, like I subscribe to a male to live a plant based meal delivery service and some of the products that they describe as whole food plant based, you know, some of them got like some white rice or some basmati rice in. And I, I get a bit confused about that because I thought only brown rice is, you know, no. So I think, again, it tends to be different definitions. But I guess at one end of the this the stream around that is, you know, like like I say, no salt, no sugar, no oil, no gluten. For me, that's quite restrictive. And I, I don't like whatever people want to do as long as not eating animals. I don't care. But, you know, I will not post photos of my salad or my fruit shake because people know that. And I, I kind of want to get people over the stereotypes of what eating vague and particularly is. So I will post my pizza with its MLT egg and cheese. I will post my cheeseburger from all Vegan, you know, a burger joint, you know, because then people can kind of go, Oh, I can go Vegan, I can still eat burger, I can still have pizza, I can still have a bacon steak. You know, I can have all of these kind of things, you know, be on me. I've just got their new TV commercial out, which is brilliant and I love it. And the burger I got, it just looks like a regular burger. Thank goodness. Finally, you know, it's not some little lentil pâté that we've had since, you know, the whenever 70s and 80s. So, yeah, I'm kind of I will tip an oral poached chocolate cakes like naughty stuff. And it's not all I actually do eat really healthily. If you look to my social media, you would think I only eat junk food, but I don't. But I post that because I want people to know that, you know, they don't have to go from having their steak and chips to only eating salads and lentils. You know what I mean? They can still have their favorite foods. And arguably, you know, no one's trying to claim that, you know, these kind of things are all necessarily healthy. But I would still argue they're healthier than having the animal products, you know, the animal based counterparts anyway. [00:18:14] And the founder of Impossible Burger did come out and say exactly that. You know that as well. It might be processed. It's definitely leaps and bounds ahead of the. Yeah. Alternative. I'm wondering, you your your industry, you help clients kind of define themselves and in addition to, you know, finding resources and getting good PR out and things like that, but it seems like you would do some advising work about really capturing or meditating on what, you know, one's product design and things like that. And you've mentioned this kind of it seems to be an industry based as well as kind of just individual company based. But whether or not people identify with the words plant based or Vegan, some people believe that Vegan is powerful and helpful. Others believe that it's exclusionary. And it's this kind of politicized term. It seems like I've spoken with a lot of Vegan clothing designers and handbag designers and they're very attached to the term Vegan leather because they said plant based leather doesn't actually make a lot of sense, which is funny because they're leather's directly. It's pineapple, the apple leather whose. But they specifically say Vegan leather, usually to get away from PMU, you know, the polyurethane that that isn't sustainable and environmentally friendly. And I'm wondering when you go to advise your clients this this role where you kind of help them qualify and quantify and you begin the PR process with them. Is this a conversation you're frequently having and is it industry based or is it very company by company based as to what term you help them identify with and use? [00:19:46] Yeah, I've got a whole chapter about it in my book, as well as well as writing the article on Forbes, where I expanded on it somewhat. And it really does depend on the business, I always say. And I asked people that question on my own podcast, Vegan Business Talk, why they choose to use the term Vegan or plant based or otherwise and why. And there's no wrong or right answer. It really depends on the company. It's definitely it's not industry wide because, for example, you've got me Kerschner Chinna, who uses Vegan loud and proud. She's got a big tattoo on her arm. You know, she is all about branding and marketing. The packaging is got Vegan up front because she wants to demystify the word Vegan and have it be associated with lovely things. In her case, you know, amazing Chazen and Vegan butter. And then there are others like beyond maids and other brands that specifically don't use Vegan, or they might have it in tiny letters. And that's an option, I think, for products that are package. You can have the word Vegan in very small letters on the back for people like me who want to know it's big and who will look for it. But then you can have plant based, you know, as the, you know, one of the key descriptors. So it really does depend on it depends on a couple of things. Who your market is. So, for example, my wife, Tracy's a clinical hypnotherapist, psychotherapist, doesn't have the word Vegan on her website anyway. She has sheep and cattle farmers come to see her. And depending on what they're coming to see her, she's also a natural path. You know, she's got quite a few of them on to Vegan, a plant based diet. So it does depend on who your target market is in terms of what words use and also as a founder, what your mission is and what you were comfortable with as well. [00:21:20] Yeah, absolutely. It does it does seem like it would be case by case. It's weird, though, as that's changing. I feel like there's going to be even a third term proposed, I think, plant based with vegans. Now, most of the at least the passionate vegans that I know, they they don't like the term plant based because at least in the United States, it's become very kind to fortified. You know, in the 90s, in the 80s, all of these these fortified cereals and things where they were ripping it out of its stripping it of its real content and then just shoving vitamins and minerals back in there and the same things, plant based. You flip over over a package and it's not Vegan at all. You know, they've they've thrown. They've infused it with some kind of a plant based material. [00:21:59] And so, yes, that's that's what I meant when I said earlier about the term plant based is, you know, it's starting to become twisted and hijacked. So. Yeah, yeah. And they could well be. I mean, we're seeing a little bit of not necessarily with food, but plant powered, you know, there's the whole free from movement. So sometimes, you know, we've seen animal free. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens in terms of terminology. But I guess I mean, for me personally, like for my own business, obviously I love the word Vegan because it's kind of in everything that I do, but everybody's different. And at the end of the day, if it gets people to stop consuming animals, use whatever term you like. [00:22:39] Yeah. That's the goal, right? Yeah. The humane washing in greenwashing. In fact, that has been kind of come up and labeled by I don't know if it's GenZE or the millennials, but I love looking at the sociology behind all of those terms. I want to turn now to unpacking the kind of the three cause of what you do. So first one to unpack what you've gotten into the book a little bit. But I was hoping as an author when you were writing it, you know, I find coming from a family of authors that there's there's two scores, at least in my lineage, and there's ones that couldn't possibly stand to think about the audience because they would never publish. And then there are ones that keep the audience in mind the whole way through. And I was wondering if you were keeping your audience in mind when you wrote it. And if so, if you can pull out five or six of the main core tenants that you really hoped the take home would be. [00:23:28] Sure. Well, I definitely have my audience in mind, so for this particular book. So it's it's my first book on my own. That is it. I have coauthored and I've also coedited a couple of anthologies in a completely different field. So I've been published by mainstream media, by mainstream publishers, traditional published in the past. For this particular one, I basically because I wanted to move into this field, I started hanging around with entrepreneurs who were asking me how do I get people to get into the media? And then I thought of the people I really want to help Vegan entrepreneurs. I must be a book about that. And there wasn't. So I thought. Right. I guess that's a sign from the universe. I need to write it so because it was a very practical book. I very much had my audience in mind. So my audience was mainly aspiring Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs. But I also wanted to have enough in there for existing Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs as well. So for those who haven't yet set up a business, you know, it's got all the stuff about how to set up the structure, what your Y is, you know, staff. And then there's also marketing, PR and branding, which is helpful for anyone who's starting out. But also a lot of the existing Vegan entrepreneurs. I've found those particular chapters quite helpful. And also, I waved in as I did over 60 interviews with Vegan entrepreneurs in all different sectors from across the globe. And I waved some of their insights throughout the book. So so I very much have my audience in mind. And that the aim really is to I guess one was to inspire more people to start a Vegan run business, because basically, I think I say in the beginning in the intro, my mission with this book is Vegan World Domination One Business at a time, because I think as an animal activists, which I do consider myself, I think it's so, so important we've got to have Vegan products easily and accessible both financially and physically so people can get these products. We've got to make it as easy as possible for people to be able to buy their Vegan makeup, skin care, fashion, food, etc.. So that was one of the key things that I wanted, was to inspire people, to give them ideas. So that's why I interviewed quite a few of the Vegan entrepreneurs, because some people would say to me, I want to start a business, but I'm not sure what kind. So that kind of Gibson's my ideas. And then basically the book is really kind of a step by step guide for people to get going and to at least avoid some of the pitfalls. I think as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, of course, you're always going to make some mistakes. But I think when you equip yourself, you know, with as much information as possible, you can at least avoid some of the key pitfalls, too, you know, to go ahead and start a business and run it on Vegan principles. Yeah, it was your advice applicable to people with products or products and service, all products. And so I wanted it to be very universal. So whether you were making products in any sector, you know, any kind of product, not just food and also. Yeah, for people who are offering services as well. So there's quite a range of interviews with with a mix and mix of entrepreneurs from from all different sectors, service providers, product makers, etc.. [00:26:38] Did did the book give birth to the online course or coincide or was it. How did that like how did that all play out timeline wise? [00:26:49] Yeah, I think I sort of touched on earlier. I really didn't have a plan, to be honest. You know, sometimes you just get a gut feeling that you've got to do something. And I just knew that I had to do the book. And I gave myself a deadline of a year from conception to publication. So that was a really full on year. And once the book was out, I mean, I think I did put like a thing at the back a bit like, you know, you can contact me for a consult, but I hadn't really built the business around it. And so the podcast came next. And then the Web site came and I started producing, you know, some extra content, some blog posts. I took some extracts from the book and turned them into a blog post to kind of put them out there. And then I, I, I thought, right now I'll add an online course in there. So that's the kind of the timeline. So it kind of, I guess, really stemmed with the book. Then the podcast consulting and coaching, which I've added some of the coaching packages of, actually added quite recently. But I've been doing the know the consulting and I've done some done for you PR services as well. So do you still, though, it's kind of happened organically and I guess it sounds like it's working. [00:27:59] So that's good. Did you do one consulting? Do you still take clients on on a one on one or is it turns me. [00:28:06] Yeah. Yeah, I do. So basically, if somebody does a lot of free information on the website, on the blog and in the podcast as well, people. [00:28:15] So they get a you know, it's basically the podcast is a free training tool really, because, you know, entrepreneurs that I interview were very generous in sharing their challenges and their strategies to success. There is a lot of free information there. But if someone wants. Taylored, one on one advice on an as and when basis, so there's no long term commitment, they can just book like a one off hourly consult with me. We do that by Zoome video. And then I will take on a limited amount of one on one coaching clients. If it's if it's a fit because that's obviously a lot more intensive where I'm working with them, I might be looking at their copy, giving them no strategy and tips and advice and we get on regular calls and stuff. I may introduce them to some of my connections, you know, try to get them. I don't really did the dunk for you PR in terms of the coaching services, but I've recently got, for example, one of my clients, a regular column on Vetch economist because she's a specialist in a particular field. So, yeah. So that's that's kind of what I do at the moment. And then there's the online course and plus the new project, the Vegan Women's Leadership Network is is something I'm doing as well, which is a membership, global membership based ethical leadership community for Vegan women to help them become leaders. So we have live webinar trainings, just the members, the premium members for that. So what a busy. [00:29:38] It sounds like it. What about female identified or non binary individuals? Can they join the Vivienne's women literacy course? [00:29:44] Basically, anyone who supports it can join. It's very inclusive. My partners involved trends, activism. She's a trans woman, so I'm very, very inclusive. And I've written that's the other areas I've published in and written about. Right, for the gay press. And I was one of the first journalists in Australia to write about non binary people and sex and gender diverse people. So, yeah, it's a very inclusive network. [00:30:08] Yeah, it sounds like it. I can't wait to look into it further. And I like like I said, I like the new name even better. Getting into Vegan business talk. Your podcast. So when you. I like to talk to other podcasts. I think it's fantastic because in the States in particular, but I find globally still I consume podcasts, you know, versus wait. But I think that it's and it's still the Wild West. It's still very you know, it's anything goes. Any time, any subject, any format, people can start off very formal and within a season become very informal. It kind of spans the gamut. Do you have a structure to yours? How do you cure rate it? How many times a week or a month did you release it? And when you started out, did you have any of those things figured out? [00:30:54] Yeah, it's evolved a bit over the years, I will say. I mean, I started there. I think it is about 2016. So it was. Yeah, early 2016, I think. And the book was published late 2015. That was a few months in between. I think initially I kind of went, right, I'm gonna do this. And I think I kind of, you know, was doing it weekly. As time has gone on, I'd shifted it to fortnightly, which I know Americans don't always know what a fortnight is apparently. So it's every two weeks. I just I didn't know there wasn't a term in America. And then sometimes it's gonna allow kind of some podcast host to have seasons. And I think that in a way that's quite clever, like you do a season and then you have a pause. But I've kind of gone away through I've kind of had a couple of hiatuses, like I had one recently when I was launching the Vegan Women's Leadership Network, and now I've come back to it. So I'm aiming to put out show every couple of weeks in terms of the structure. I'm actually I'm actually changing that a little bit as well. Previously, I would prerecord the bio on my own and after I'd done the interview and have the bullet points and then I would also have some news at the end. But from going forward, it she from the next interview that I'm doing, which is very shortly, I'm changing that slightly. I'm gonna do some it's similar to what you're doing where I actually introduce the guest on the show itself and I'm missing out the news because there's so many. Back when I started the podcast, there wasn't a lot of Vegan news out of Vegan business news outlets particularly. And now there is there's like a plethora of the mainstream media covering a lot of Vegan business news. So I'm missing that, BEYDOUN. And that's going to actually be less work for me to do. And the real value, I think, is in the interviews, you know, people typically say they can kind of get the news anywhere, but the real value is in the interviews. So basically, my my my criteria is that businesses ideally would have been running for about three years. And the reason for that is because this particular podcast is giving other big and entrepreneurs insights into your challenges and success strategies that don't typically interview startups unless they've been in business and run their own business in other areas. And the reason for that is I think it can be quite easy to start a business, but maintaining it over a period of time is a lot more challenging. And I think you you've just got more to give and more to share when you've been running your business for a little while. So that's my key criteria. But other than that, you know, as long as the business, the whole brand is Vegan completely bagan. And you've been running it for around about three years. I would typically interview. Entrepreneurs in all sectors, service providers, product makers, sometimes have specialists, some as well like specialist marketing or CEO, etc., people on to share. I will always try and source those first from the Vegan community. But I did. I think I had one woman on who wasn't Vegan, but she was a. really mega food scientist that I had on about three years ago. So I will occasionally have non Vegan guests on if they have know if I can't find their expertize anywhere else. And I feel like they've got a lot of value. The Vegan business owners can use. So, yeah, that's my structure at the moment as is. I'm just kind of shifting it a little bit going forward. [00:34:09] And is your audience. Is it intended for Vegan business owners themselves or for everybody to educate? [00:34:16] It's mainly for Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs, both aspiring and existing. Sometimes I might have. I've heard interview quite a few investors. You know how to get funding. It's a very practical podcast. Like, I really kind of we really kind of focus on, you know, what were their challenges when they started out? What are the challenges now? How are they handling them? What marketing strategies are they using? How is it funded? If they've got investment, how did they get investment? It's very practical. It's literally like they're almost like little mini training courses almost, but they're done in kind of interview format. So it is very practical. So I'm not sure that anyone who's I mean, look, if someone's got an inkling or, you know, perhaps in the back of their mind and they're nowhere near getting started yet, but they know that maybe one day they would like to start a Vegan business and run a business and run on Vegan principles, they might tune in, but otherwise it really is for. Yeah. Aspiring and existing Vegan business owners. [00:35:14] Nice. Absolutely. All right. I wanted to quickly unpack the Vegan Women's Leadership Network. So you've just kind of it sounds like, you know, you've just kind of built, launched, renamed it rebranded maybe. Tell us what it is. What is the network for? I mean, that you've clarified that it services everybody who's who wants to be included. But what does it do? What is the network about it? Does it meet? What's its functionality, all of that? [00:35:41] Yeah, sure. So basically I pre launched it in the middle of a pandemic. So pretty much during lockdown. I I've been working with a business coach and because I knew I wanted to do something else in addition to baking business media. And so it kind of we came kind of full circle as I have been involved in the women's movement and feminist movement. So we kind of came up with this idea and it was gonna be a physical event in London, actually, original plan. But then obviously Cobbett 19 happened. And so I thought, right, I'm going to look prelaunch. I'm gonna see if there's. I knew it had to be sustainable because in the past, I've launched projects out of pure passion, but they haven't been sustainable. And I end up getting burnt out. And then, you know, things come to an end. So I knew that this had to be sustainable. So it's a paid a membership based global ethical leadership community for Vegan women. And it's to provide them with resources to help them become leaders in their field, whatever that looks like for them. So it's not it's for big business owners and entrepreneurs, but it's also for people who work in the corporate sector, work in a job, working entertainment, sport, any sector work for NGOs. And what we provide. So I put it out there. I put the prelaunch out there just to see if it was staged. I thought if I get a certain amount of women by this date, then I'll go ahead with it and get the, you know, the website and membership site. Bill and I got the numbers. I was pleasantly surprised even during lockdown, you know, when people were losing their jobs left, right and center are still able to attract, you know, a number of women who said, yes, this is so needed. This is the perfect time to be launching this. So got the Frontin website and the membership POOLESVILLE. And essentially what we have at the moment, we have regular virtual meet ups via Zoome, and that's proved to be really popular because the women are really getting to know one another. And this collaboration is happening left, right and center. People are really supporting one another. And then we've got live webinar trainings on a number of topics around kind of leadership, self leadership, quite broad there. And we've got the front facing website. We have got something else coming up, which I can't say quite at the moment. But that's gonna be, I think, quite exciting. And yeah, and we're we're looking we're also working with VegFest UK. We've partnered with them to elevate women's Vegan women's voices. [00:37:58] So providing, you know, Vegan women with opportunities to present and to speak. And I'm hosting a couple of panels with Vegan women. One's on Bakan Women in business. One's on how to find your voice as a leader in the bacon and animal advocacy movement. So it's really about supporting Vegan women, elevating them, providing them with resources and connecting with them so that they can collaborate. [00:38:22] That sounds exciting. And it's just in its infancy. That sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. Will you after there is add and add a cure? Will you go to back to opening up to like a physical event, or do you think you'll keep it virtual just because this is the space you're in now? [00:38:41] Well, it's an interesting one, because, I mean, I do like virtual because it is like this community is very global. Yes. The majority of women at the moment from the US. But then there's plenty of women from the U.K., all different countries in Europe, Asia Pacific. Women are joining. So I like the virtual obviously is is good because it's easy in some ways. You just kind of get on your computer and get get women together. But I'm certainly not ruling anything out. I mean, I say I love I do love to go to to go back to my hometown of London. I love to go to New York. So, you know, I am certainly not ruling out some kind of physical event, either a stand alone event or being part of a bigger show, because, you know, it is nice to just kind of hang out with people and physically meet them. So I think down the track when we you know, I'm not sure when that will be, but I think we will do some kind of fiscal events as well. [00:39:36] Exciting. All right. Well, we're almost running out of time. Katrina, which is to save a million questions, but I want to get to fire questions. And I neglected to tell everyone in the roadmap. But we have a lot of you writing in and asking us questions. And we have a team of people that have put them together in different categories. And so I'm going to we've combined a lot, but I'm going to just get a few that people who write in who want us to ask people of your expertize in specific about the Vegan world. And one of the first ones is what is the number one mistake you see most Vegan businesses making? I think this was more. We had a bunch of questions about ones that have products. So products across the board. But what do you feel like? What are the number one PR mistakes that Vegan businesses that you run into make, not putting aside a budget for marketing and PR? [00:40:24] I see a lot of Vegan businesses putting a lot of time and effort into their product, which of course you need. Do you want to get a good quality with it? Is a product out there or if it's a service, you want to make sure you're giving value to your clients, whatever you do. But a lot of them, I'd say a second mistake would be underestimating budget required. I think you always need to at least triple what you plan to spend. Whether that's, you know, for machinery, equipment, etc.. But put some kind of budget aside for marketing and PR. Yes, you can do a lot organically, of course, and everyone jumps on social media and what have you, and that can be be good. But I think it's always good to have some kind of budget, whether you use that for paid ads or for PR or for some kind of digital marketing. I think that's really important because you can have the best product to the best service in the world. If no one knows about it, then you got a business. [00:41:13] Okay. And along the same lines, you've had a lot of people write in and say, what is the number one thing that a small business, small Vegan business can do on their own to really help their bottom line with PR like this, some bad technique or a tool or posting or anything along those lines? [00:41:29] Yeah, I think learn how to do your own PR so so that you can actually pitch yourself to media. So, you know, certainly, yes, you can hire a publicist or a PR firm if you've got that kind of budget, which is several thousand dollars a month. A lot of small businesses don't have that. So learn the tools and techniques and tips. You can get that information for free on the Internet. Obviously, you know, little plug, you can do my course, but, you know, you can find that information out on how to pitch to the media and get into, you know, find out what target media is best for you and and how to approach journalists, because that can really help, I think, getting media coverage. And, of course, having a presence on social media. Make sure your way, your audience is and show that behind the scenes stuff and tell your story. You know, see, I'm not just kind of every post is by this, by this, by this, but showing people who you are. Brand storytelling, I think is really important nowadays as a founder, don't you can no longer afford to hide behind your business. You know, you're no longer the faceless founder. You need to be there front and center. Let people know who you are. And remember, not everyone will love you or your product. And that's okay. You're not trying to serve everyone. Nobody can serve everyone. You're trying to attract to you the people who who feel passionate about you and your brand and will want to support you. [00:42:51] Right. Right. And I will say to kind of further that plug that I did appreciate your I'm you to take three minutes, maybe two and a half minutes on YouTube, kind of explaining Vegan, Vegan business, media, like the course and what it means in the limelight begins in the limelight and and what the course was about. And a quick synopsis that really imparted a great deal of information. I felt like what you were going to give your people, including interface, you know, and and how there's question and format, but it's this more loose for the calendar online and things like that. I think it did a good job of answering that for anyone who's thinking about it. And you can jump on it seems great. Absolutely. We do a lot of people right in asking if I'm OK. A lot of going along the same lines. Social media do end this kind of delineation between founder and. Yes, I don't think the younger generations think that that needs to or even could exist anymore either, which I agree with you, I don't think it can or would a lot of people wonder if they should be linking up their business and their their personal accounts. This kind of communication between the two people talked about, you know, linking one to the other or probably closing one down. There was a lot of questions as to what you would advise on that level, because it's a Vegan business and they've been a Vegan individual. [00:44:08] Yeah, it's an interesting one. And again, I think it comes back to the terminology question that you asked, and there's it's going to be different for everyone. So, for example, I do know people who have got their own personal, but they have a personal Facebook account and they've just got a handful of literal family and friends like people that they know. And that's just for sharing their personal stuff. And then they've got their business page, which is totally separate and that that can work for them. But then like someone like me, I've got my personal Facebook. Everything I post is public and I've also got my various pages. And I think when you're, I guess, a personality, for example, then. I think what you can't assume that people won't find out what you've posted on your personal side. For example, if, say, you were running a Vegan brand and then you posted a pay, I don't know, the weekend you or a plant based branch to send in the way. Can you post a picture? You've been trophy hunting or whatever on your personal Facebook. That's obviously going to be, you know, a complete mismatch. And just because it's on there, like someone may still see it on screen, grab it. Same if you're going into groups, for example, say you're hanging out and Vegan groups on Facebook, for example, as you as you want your personal account, then people will screen grab it, even if it's a so-called private group. So I think you need to be wary of or be aware of what you put on your personal social media. Don't assume that what you put on. So when your personal stuff won't somehow be connected with your business because it can be so, just be wary. But having said that, I do think it's nice for people like if you are willing to put yourself out there. It can be nice for people to say, oh, look, here's, you know, so-and-so in their family and their cat or dog, what have you. But just be aware of that. My rule of thumb is don't post anything in public, whether on social, on your website, that you wouldn't be happy for anyone to say in five years. Now, five years and 10 years time, like I am so glad. Social media didn't exist. It's for example. So that's my kind of rule of thumb. You know, be comfortable with what you're sharing, but be aware that, you know, it could be connected with your business. [00:46:23] Yeah. And finally, we had a lot of people write in and I have my own personal take on this. I'm interested to hear you have to say we've a lot of people talking about sponsorship, and I'm assuming they also mean partnership. But regarding their brands and other this kind of, you know, uniting to be a stronger voice together, there are people asking for your personal business advice in regards to reaching out for a sponsorship or partnership with a young Vegan business. [00:46:50] OK. So this sponsorship or investment, I'm not sure whether they mean I'm not quite sure what they mean about sponsoring it is typically a Vegan business would sponsor like a nonprofit, for example. So I don't know if they mean kind of help, financial help or investment or fundraising. [00:47:10] There's a lot of advice in the States right now. Kind of casually whispered, I would say through the grapevine that I'm not sure I can hear a voice that's actually saying it. But this idea of becoming a partner or a sponsor. There are new platforms. In fact, there's new startups where, you know, they're joining people together, particularly women and women, identified businesses and things like that, and kind of bringing two disparate groups together to have a greater reach, if you will. So though, you know, there are these companies that are matchmaking, like cosmetics with a new Levi's, you know, company and bringing them home. OK. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha. And people that are now hearing that and writing and going, what does it all mean? I get it. Should I be doing this? Do I need to reach out for sponsorship? And we've had a lot of people ask, you know, what's the terminology around and ask like that. So if you had a client saying, listen, I want to reach out to a partner or ask someone to sponsor me or let's just say partner up with somebody to encourage increase your reach. How would you advise they go about that? [00:48:11] Yeah, I think you've always got to look at what is in it for them, not just what's in it for you. A lot of the I find with with small business owners and I find this particularly around PR as well, is like they're like, oh well, I want free publicity for my products and services. That's not a journalist's job. And the same with a partnership. If you're gonna go to someone and say, right, I would like this, I would like us to partner because I want this, this and this. You've got to say, well, what's in it for them? And that's particularly if you're then approaching someone who's already got a big platform and has already got a big market. You know, why should they help you? What's going to be in it for them? So I think that's a really important thing. What can you offer them? Why would this partnership be a positive thing for both? So I think that's my advice, particularly with a larger company. So, you know, if you were looking to partner with a larger company and they perhaps haven't got into a plant based or they just kind of dipping their toe in it, you know, you can kind of go in there and say, look, our product is innovative. You know, this is what we know about the plant by sector. And this is how I feel it could work. This partnership could work for both of us. When I wrote the book, I've got a whole chapter on collaboration, because what we're seeing, certainly with Vegan business owners and entrepreneurs is they've been collaborating for years and continue to do so. So, for example, there was one there were three Vegan shoe brands that all decided to share a store or a booth at a particular trade show or event. So they pooled their resources. Technically, they're all in competition. You know, they're all Vegan shoemakers. But obviously they that they're that different, you know, different products, slightly different. But they were technically all in competition, but they pooled their resources, bought this booth, and then they each staffed it at different times and promoted everybody's brands. Sometimes you might get a bacon cheese partnering with a vague, you know, some kind of cracker company to do a promotion. We've certainly seen a lot of that and in lockdown, actually. And I think Bhavani, who we've mentioned from the Green Line, which is a Vegan eatery here, has done that as well, and as well as a Vegan chocolate brand here. So they partnered with another company. I can remember what they were. It was like a savory and a sweet. So people would go and collect. They could order and then go and collect their savory and their chocolate treat together so that that can work to be it. It's all about the mutual benefit. And I think that's really important. So definitely focus on what's in it for them, rather them. I've got this great product on it. Money on eight marketing. I need support. Can you help me? You know, that's not gonna fly. Because they're gonna get lots of people that always think about what's in it for the other person. [00:50:46] Yeah. And I think that's it's. So I think it's true for any good business measure, you know. Yeah. Business meeting to kind of look at the other point of view before you go in for the ask, the elevator pitch is really important. And and I think we all need to be very concise and very clear about what we're doing, you know, as as business owners or anyone kind of walking throughout today's world. But in that kind of gets lost in translation, the concept of like really listening and and ascertaining prior to meeting with somebody, you know, what they could possibly use you for as well. [00:51:17] And then honing that pitch a bit. Yeah. Our final area of inquiry is kind of looking at the future. And this is I love this question. The further we get into this year, because it's changed so much for people on a daily basis. But as far as the Vegan industry, particularly someone like yourself, because you have this this bird's eye view of so many different companies that you're helping and advising and speaking to and all of these different areas and venues that you're involved with. And you and I were talking off the record a little bit on the record about. Now, hyperspeed, you know, the Vegan industry world seems to be in the past five years, 10 years, as opposed to 20 years ago. The 50 before it, I've written an article saying, you know, for the 50 before the last before the arts, it wasn't even a microscopic dot as opposed to what's happened in the past 10 years with just IPOs alone, economics, all of that. And then with that comes to follow suit of culture, all of these things. But for you personally. What do you do? You see a continuing with hyperspeed. Do you disagree with me on that in the next five years? Where do you see some of the biggest changes happening within the Vegan world? What are some of your predictions? [00:52:28] Go to hell. Yeah. Cool. I loved it. I think I definitely agree with you. I think it's going to continue along with the hyperspeed that you mentioned, because of various reasons for human health, for sustainability, and also more and more people coming aware of animal welfare. I think we're seeing that. But we've got major investors. I mentioned on my website, I've got a whole list of Vegan and Vegan friendly investors, and I keep having to add to it. You've got Mioko, who's got no Kerschner of Yoko's. He's got investment from Ellen DeGeneres, and her wife, Portia. You know, we've got big name celebrities, Bill Gates, you know, really kind of big names who are getting on board with this even. And then, of course, you've got these big corporate companies who not don't necessarily have great ethics in terms of animals, people or planet, but they're kind of jumping in on this plant based brand. And they're buying up Vegan brands as well. And that can be, you know, see, there's pros and cons up with the pros, all the bacon products then get way more distribution and become way more available, you know, in places like Wal-Mart and, you know, these to make them more accessible. So I think we're kind of seeing that happening at the moment. We're kind of seeing these kind of partnerships, though, bedfellows that you wouldn't normally have seen. You know, all those years ago. I think potentially what's going to be happening and I know there's people working in the space is that they is that they're creating a vague and economy so that at some point we won't necessarily have to partner with these big brands or we will have an impact on how these big companies, corporations operate. We're almost like force them to be ethical because consumers will demand that they're not just going to be demanding cheaper products, but they want to know where the products came from, what the ethics behind the brands are. I think we're going to see more nations. We're already starting to see that. So in terms of, say, Vegan Italian, Vegan Indian, Vegan Mexican in terms of eateries, I think we're going to get even more and more niche. And I think and cheeses, I mean, we're just we talked about the earlier we're just at the cusp now. You know, if you look in the supermarket, how many dairy cheeses there are. So there's a lot of room in this category to provide animal free versions of all the different dairy cheeses. You've got companies like Perfect Day that are making dairy from bacteria. [00:54:45] So they they're replicating the casing that is in regular dairy, but they're creating it from yeast and bacteria. So I think we're seeing a lot of high tech three day. We're seeing 3D printed steaks, for example, Vegan steaks. So I think the technology is going to continue and we're seeing, you know, billionaires, you know, investing in this kind of technology. So I think, yeah, we're going to see more IPO shows. I think it's just gonna get bigger and better. I think as well, the fashion space is really starting to come into its own. The big in fashion, partly as part of the overall sustainable fashion, the move away from the all the push to move away from fast fashion beauty. We're seeing celebrities when they are launching their beauty products, they might not be Vegan themselves, but they are producing their products as big and by default because it just makes sense. So, yeah, I think we're really kind of seeing Vegan tourists. I know of at the moment of this interview were in, you know, still in Cobbett 19. But, you know, there's Vegan tourism, Vegan travel. You know, I think veganism is is literally a Vegan interior design. That's another growing market as well. You know what you're using in your home. It's not just about eco friendly and natural and sustainable. It's also people want cruelty free now. So that's another growing market. So I think it's really exciting. I think that paganism is pervading everything. And to create a world where what we buy, what we consume is good for people, good for animals and good for the planet. And I. I love you, too. [00:56:20] And I completely concur. I love the areas you're getting into, too. I'm gonna have to bring you back on because it's a huge passion as it. Yes. As a Vegan parent for Vegan children and I Globe-Trotting yearly and Vegan, I just don't there's not enough Vegan travel blogs for me. I think that there are some, but like people really speaking to people so much and happy cow. And I'm like, there's got to be more, we need more of them, you know. So I think that it's it's true and it's burgeoning and it's growing and it needs to be kept up to date and. It's an exciting time, and there's so many different industries, like you say, the fashions, a big one for myself as well. You know that the beloved daughter of England, Stella McCartney, is one of my most favorites. And she was one of the first in the major industry, I think, to actually come out and just say it's it's humane, it's right and it looks better. It's all those things. And I think that once we have more artists and people like that that are coming forward, really marriage, the ideas, it will just continue to fact track it all. I completely agree with you and I'm excited to venture into that future with you. That's going be. Absolutely. Thank you so much for meeting with us today. I really appreciate it. I know you're incredibly busy and I appreciate you taking the time and giving us some of your candor and information. [00:57:30] It is a pleasure. I'm really great to connect with you and find out more about you. And it's been lovely chatting with you. [00:57:36] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, we have been speaking with Katrina Fox. She's a journalist, author, founder and PR consultant. You can find out more about her, all of her services, her books, her online courses and her podcast on both of her Web sites. W w w dot. Katrina Fox dot com as well as w w w Vegan business media dot com. [00:57:57] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat clean and responsibly and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am talking with Ahyiana Angel. Ahyiana is the Founder of Mayzie Media and host of the personal growth podcast Switch, Pivot or Quit. A traditionally published author and speaker, Ahyiana and her work have been featured by Apple, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Girlboss and more. Quit Playing Small is her latest highly buzzed-about book that's a must-have for morning routines.   Key points addressed were   Ahyiana’s professional chronicle that took her from a prolific PR and jewelry design career into writing 2 books, hosting an influential podcast, and launching Podcast Production company Mayzie Media We also discussed Ahyiana’s advice when it comes to the particulars of book writing and publishing and the various experiences she encountered producing both of her books   TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with founder, author and podcast host Ahyiana Angel. Key Points address whereAhyiana's professional chronicle that took her from a prolific PR and jewelry design career into writing two books, hosting an influential podcast and launching a podcast production company, Mazey Media. We also discussedAhyiana's advice when it comes to the particulars of book writing and publishing and the various experiences she encountered producing both of her books. Stay tuned for my invigorating talk with Ahyiana Angel.   [00:00:37] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and nonbinary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen ARCOM. You can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:34] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.   [00:01:37] And today, I am so excited to be sitting down with Ahyiana Angel. Ahyiana is the founder. She's a founder, a podcast or and an author. You can find out more on one of her Web sites. I'll have her bring in the other one later in the podcast at w w w dot. Switch, pivot or quit dot com. Welcome, Ahyiana.   [00:01:57] Thank you, Patricia, for having me.   [00:01:59] Absolutely. I can't wait to unpack. I know that our audience has written and we were talking off the record about a great deal of aspects of different endeavors that you've kind of climbed through recently. And I can't wait to look at that, namely your book and the process of writing that and getting it published, as well as looking at your podcast. It's got a prolific history and following, as well as your Web site, some of the core tenants in the ethos behind what you do and for everyone who's listening who might be new to the podcast. I will read a quick bio on Icona to kind of give you a platform before I ask her to kind of expand on that herself. But before I do that, a trajectory in which the line of inquiry for today's podcast will come from a road map for all of you to follow. I will first ask Ahyiana to kind of unpack her personal, professional and academic history as it relates to the work that she's doing now. We'll then dove straight into unpacking her professional chronicle. So we will look at all of her endeavors, writing the book, her website, as well as her podcasts and anything else she's involved in this kind of forming the ethos of her brand, her business, and perhaps her future endeavors will then turn to looking at goals that I own a house for the next one to three years, with all of her work spanning across all of her different activities. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice at Ahyianami. For those of you who are looking to get involved, perhaps emulate some of her career success as promised. A quick bio on Ianna. Before I start peppering her with questions, Man Angel is the founder of Mazey Media and host of Personal Growth podcast Switch, Pivot or Quit, a traditionally published author and speaker,Ahyiana and her work have been featured by Apple, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Girl, Boss and more Quit Playing Small. Is her latest hype highly buzzed about book? That's a must have for. Morning routines and we'll unpack all of that. Ianna, before we get to the book and all of the kind of exciting things you're doing. I was hoping you could draw some a stage or a background platform of your personal history, your academic history and your professional history as it leads to and pertains to what you're doing now.   [00:03:59] So that's a great question. I haven't I haven't had it posed like that.   [00:04:05] So my personal background is that I am from California, born and born and raised, and I am the oldest of four siblings, which I think plays into. I think you could say my leadership tendencies. You know, you have to become a leader early on in the household when you're the oldest. Right. And have a lot of responsibility and all of those things. So I think that's a part of that foundation has helped me to sort of navigate all the different challenges that have come our way. And not that there's been a ton. It's just life happens. Right. So my undergrad, my undergraduate degree in business administration and my concentration was marketing. But funny enough, I was one of those people. And this ties into sort of my whole growth getting to where I am now. I was one of those people who heavily consulted with my parents, namely my father, about my career choice, what I was going to do. And he obviously wanted me to do something. I was going to make any money, but also that I would be remotely interested in. So when I first initially went to college, I thought that I was going to be in a physical therapy program. I thought that that was gonna be my route that I was going to take. And then I got into my very first physics class and I was like, girl, this is not for you. This is not going to work. So science wasn't my thing. So then I said, okay, I'm gonna go to the College of Business. And I thought, OK, I see my dad. He's in that whole tech sort of I.T. space. And so I said, OK, I could do this, I can make good money. And then I got into the first class and all these zeros and ones and I was like, this does not make any sense to me. So once again, I had to switch things up and I ended up finding myself in marketing because for me it was a nice compromise between doing something that was business related, but also creative. And I just found myself feeling like this could open up a ton of different avenues for me. And I really didn't know where it was going to take me. So I ended up taking internships and marketing spaces. I had an internship at Showtime Networks through this amazing program called the T. Howard Foundation. And I also ended up getting an internship at the game show network just as I was graduating my senior year. And that's what introduced me to PR. And so when I was introduced to PR, I didn't really know what I could do with it. But I quickly realized that there were a lot of crossover with the skills that I had and the skills that were required to succeed in that field. So I ended up staying in that field and eventually making my way to New York from L.A. to New York and working at the National Basketball Association, doing sports entertainment PR. And so that was very exciting at the beginning, that the first three years. It was just like this amazing experience. It was a dream job. It was a dream company to be working for. But then eventually, this is where it comes back around. I started tapping back into how I really felt, what I really wanted to be doing and what was in like an alignment with me as a person as I was starting to get to know myself. And in the midst of that, I realized I wanted to tap into my creativity more. And so I did just that. And I started a jewelry line while I was working my nine to five. And it did really well, like our stuff. Our jewelry was worn by beyond, say, and like Lauryn Hill and some amazing people. But what that did was that introduced me to the idea of entrepreneurship and what could be possible with it. It also introduced me to other people who were doing it successfully. So eventually I got to a point where I said, you know what, I want to do something more. I feel I'm feeling I'm having this strong tug that there's more that I should be doing. I just don't know exactly what it looks like. And then that's what led me to making the transitions, because at a certain point, I felt like I had checked all the boxes. I had done everything that was expected of me. So now was time for me to start to venture into the space of what do you really want? What really feels right to you? And so that's sort of how I started coming into this journey of creating the switch, pivot or equip podcast and doing writing and doing all the other things that I do now.   [00:08:38] It's interesting because your story, you know, a lot of people think that they quit something when they're miserable or whatever, but you've got this magnificently successful career. And then you've got this magnificently successful moonlighting endeavor with the jewelry. And you still chose to kind of switch and ask to have that internal dialog about self happiness and things like that.   [00:08:57] What do you think promoted you continuing on? You know, you have two forms of success that you came into. But this is this persistent issue that you have with kind of re dialoging with yourself about what makes you happiest and things like that. Do you have an impetus that kind of caused you to continue to question or do you think it was just kind of an inborn thing?   [00:09:18] I think it was kind of an important thing, I think I'm just that type of person that's always looking for freshness. That's always. It's not that I'm not settled in spaces. It's just that I feel like I could be doing more. And it's not that perfection or, you know, really driving yourself and not really ever appreciating your accomplished accomplishments type of. I feel I could be I could be doing more. It's more along the lines of what's out there. This is a huge world with a ton of options and possibilities. And the more that I get introduced to things, the more that certain things may piqued my interest or I may feel called to a different direction. Or I may feel like I could be of service or I could really succeed in a certain space, or I start to see and learn things about myself that I didn't know before, which helps me to get interested in how I could pull more of that out. So I think it's more of an internal thing versus something that's coming from the outside in making me think that I need to, you know, switch favorite or quit.   [00:10:24] Yeah. And they talk I mean, a lot of people talk about the mystique of entrepreneurs, you know, and the spirit of entrepreneurism kind of being something that's just this hunger within or things of that nature. So it doesn't come with that. OK. So I'm curious, you switch out of both of these endeavors in the jewelry and the PR. And I'm wondering what happened. First, you have this prolific podcast. You have, you know, hundreds of episodes. And did that happen? Did you immediately develop this brand? Did you write your first book? Which Endeavor Came First?   [00:10:57] So while I was working, I was working also on my first book so I would wake up an hour earlier than I needed to get ready for work, which I hated because I'm not really a morning person. And I would work on this book. I would be writing and I'd be half asleep writing, but I had this goal to finish.   [00:11:17] So it took me about nine months of working on this book while still working in my full time job. And once I was done with the book or I felt like I was in a place that it was done. That's when I started entertaining, putting in my notice and just really taking this series in terms of trying my hand at becoming an author. And for me, it wasn't about entrepreneurship. It was more about finding my happiness. You know, I was no longer satisfied doing what I was doing day to day. It wasn't making me happy. And so I said, I need to figure out what's going to make me happy and I need to go in that direction. And I don't know what that's going to look like. There was a ton of uncertainty, but I was open to it because I also had confidence in myself. I said I can't control everything. I don't know everything that's going to come our way. Or what I do know is that I can give my best. And I know the things that I'm skilled at and I can use that to make this a better situation. So the book writing came first and then I quit the job. Then luckily, I was really, really extremely blessed to have an opportunity about four months after I quit the job to get a traditional book publishing offer. And I was completely novice to all of this. I didn't even know when I got the offer. I called my editor and I was like, is this like, good?   [00:12:40] Like, is this something I should be like doing? And she's like a yarn. Are you kidding me?   [00:12:44] So many authors that I'm working with right now who would kill to be in your position? I was like, OK, I'm happy. OK, this is good. This is good. So for me, it was a process of just taking things as they were coming and doing what I knew I needed to be doing and following sort of like that internal voice as well. Because when I first quit, I didn't know that I was going to get this publishing deal. But I remember having a conversation with my dad and I was deciding on investing in this. This editor.   [00:13:12] And it was a lot of money at the time, seeing as how I had just quit my full time job. And so I was like, you know, should I do this? And he just asked me a question. He was like, Do you believe in yourself? Do you believe in this project? And I was like, Yeah, of course I do. And he's like, didn't do it. What decision is there? If you believe in it, do it. And I was like, OK, I'm gonna do it. And that's sort of like what kicked off all all the other things falling in place. And then eventually, once I wrote the book once again, I was very, very fortunate to have the book come out a little less than a year of me starting this process. Usually it takes minimum a year for a book to be published. And so for me, it came out. I did this book tour and I was starting to realize how people were gravitating to my story and the changes that I had made in my life and the decisions that I made, because I also not only left my job and rurals, this book, I left my job, wrote this book, or got an opportunity to get it published. But I also left New York and went to London and lived there for about four months. Traveled around and had some amazing experiences, so people were like, how are you doing this? And I want to do more of what you're doing, maybe not follow the exact same path, but I'm interested in shaking up my life, basically. And that's what eventually brought me to the podcast and to switch, pivot or quit, because I realized that I was uniquely qualified to tell that story, to tap into what that looks like and to be that person to help share those stories with other people. The stories that I would have wanted to listen to when I was sitting at my desk on Fifth Avenue in midtown Manhattan trying to figure out what the heck am I going to do next? So that's how I got to the podcast. And this switch proved that a quick conversation, because I knew how it felt to be having these feelings. But you don't exactly know what to do with it. And then you don't know what other people are doing and your peers may not be experiencing the same thing at the same time. So then you start to feel isolated and alone in these feelings as well. So I wanted to create a conversation that let people know that they weren't, you know, going crazy.   [00:15:22] Yeah, absolutely. Really quickly, before we drop into the podcast and some of its particulars, what how did you find your editor for the first book? Did you do a search?   [00:15:30] Did you have a referral? We've had a lot of people write in. Namely, people who want me to ask authors to come on this show. Asking about locating it can be a predatory situation. Finding an editor. Finding a publisher. You know, self publishing. And we can climb into that later when we talk about your second book. But I want to get into how you personally found your first original editor and how you knew whether or not the price was fair. You talked about having this long conversation with your father about it, but how did you find that individual and how did you deduce that they were legitimate and fair?   [00:16:00] Sure. So what even brought me to an editor was when I was maybe three quarters of the way done with the book. I started querying agents and the query process can be a bit daunting and intimidating as well, because you read all this stuff that says tons of people query these agents and their query letters and all the time, and then some agents don't even accept unsolicited queries. So you also it's a combination of you having to find the right agent who represents the projects in your genre, as well as them being interested in what you're pitching. So you have to pitch them and they have to believe in you because they ultimately have to sell the project. Right. So I had gotten quite a few responses where people were interested. But I remember this one rejection. I was sitting in a hotel room in Miami at the NBA finals in the office room, basically working. And I checked my personal email and I got a rejection from this agent and he basically said, I love this story. I love where it's going. But I unfortunately, I can't take this to my editors sees me. He said, I can't take this to my editors right now as it is. That crushed me. But what I have to do is take a step back and realize, OK. So he's saying it's a good project with potential. It just needs to be cleaned up and tightened up by an editor. So that's what brought me to actually hiring my own editor, because unfortunately, publishing is very similar to the music business right now. You see all these indie artists that you picked up or labels want to pick them up? Well, it's the same thing with publishing. They want you to come to the table with a project that's pretty much ready to go, ready to hit the shelves, ready to be sold and ready to be pushed. So I had to hire my own editor and that's where the process came in and the conversation with my dad. But how much do you believe in this project? So what I did was I started doing the research about editing, what types of editing, because I didn't even know that there were different types of editors who edit for different things. Right. And so I started to realize what type of editor I needed. And then I also started to get an idea of what type of fees editors were charging. This editor that I decided to go with. She was a recommendation. A quick other little note that I think I should mention only because it was very random, but it worked out in my favor. I was at work doing some research, found this thing called office hours. I don't even know if they do it anymore, but it was where professionals lend their time and their expertize to people just simply for nothing because they want to do good. So you can sign up. And so I did that and I got in touch with this woman who was an agent. Her and I ended up becoming friendly. We met up for drinks one evening and she is what I told her everything that was going on, my process. She's the one that told me about this, Ed, that ended up going with. She told me about the Ed come to find out that Ed and I also had another mutual friend. So at this point, I felt comfortable with her that she wasn't going to, like, take my money and run or, you know, that she was a reputable person. And she was also on a higher end because she had worked at a lot of the larger publishing houses and still was working with them. So she was not just an editor who says, hey, I can edit your work for you. She was someone with a proven track record. So that's why the price point was there as well. So when I ended up hiring her, it was actually a great process and an easy process, working with her and her, giving me the feedback. We met up in person a few times. So that's nice. If you're in the same city as a person or you can meet on Zoom. But I think the main thing is you need to do your research and you need to see who else is vouching for this person, because it can be a situation where someone tells you that you're an editor, but maybe they're not qualified to edit your work. That's the other thing. Just like with an agent, you want to make sure that the editor that you choose, that they are also interested in the genre, that you write it because you don't want to get a sci fi editor and you're doing a romance novel. They may not edit the same way or see the potential or see where you're trying to go with it. So I know that that was a lot, but I really want to share the full process because there's layers to getting to where you have to actually or where you actually want to be, right?   [00:20:35] Yeah, absolutely. And no, I think it's wildly useful information. I know a ton of entrepreneurs and savvy business established people like, you know, looking at writing books. And it's an area that just keeps transforming itself and needs to be discussed before we let it go. I do want to ask you personally, did you the utility of your editor and did they indeed edit your work? Did they guide the refinement? What kind of a role did they play for you?   [00:21:01] Absolutely. So she went through and she did the editing for the words Escape Me right now, but she did the editing for this specific, like sentence structure and everything. And then she also did the editing for the continuity in the story, like I remember, for one example. Couple different places in the novel. I mentioned a cab, but then I mentioned a taxi in another place and she's like, you have to be consistent if you're going to call it a cab. Call it a cab. If you're going to call it a taxi. Call it a taxi. And those types of things I would have missed. I didn't know the importance of that. But that's the kind of attention to detail that she had. And also she in her note, she asked questions. Maybe you want to think about adding this. Maybe you want to think about fleshing this out a little bit more. It feels like there could be more to this portion to paint the picture. You know, so she was really, really thorough. She was very thorough. And I appreciated her for that. And her name is Ricky Reynolds. If anybody is thinking maybe she could be the girl for me, too. She and she's really amazing. And she's no nonsense in the sense that she's not here to be your best friend. She's here to do the best work possible. And she's serious about editing your work really well.   [00:22:16] Nice. That's a great shout out, Rakeysh. So I want to turn now I want to pivot to looking at your podcast. It sounds like it came about, you know, with the advent of your first book.   [00:22:28] I want to know, can you kind of cite a rough year or time period in which it was launched and the scope of it when it was launched, if you had a clear, concise idea or if you just wanted it to accompany your current endeavors, what was the whole motivation behind launching it and kind of the structure? Oberon's the original launch.   [00:22:46] Sure. So I launched in twenty seventeen January twenty seventeen, if I'm not mistaken. So it's been about three and a half years that I've been doing it. And when I launched, I was running a program running a platform on social media by a different name. And so I thought this could be a good continuation of those conversations via the podcast. But I also was a podcast listener, so I knew that I wanted the structure to be in such a way that. You knew what you were gonna get when you started listening to an episode, just how, you know, you ran down at the top of the show, what people can expect to listen to. That's what I liked to hear when I was listening to a podcast because was nothing more frustrating than looking at a podcast title, being 20, 30 minutes in. And they're still talking about their weekend with a all these, you know, things that don't matter to me, you know. And so I said, I want to have a very tight structure and I want people to get the most that they can get, the most goodness that they can out of these podcast episodes. So I'm not here for the fluff. I do not want the fluffy stuff at all. So for me, I knew exactly where I wanted to take the podcasts and the conversations. When I started it, I, I did have some hiccups in the beginning because it was called it had a different name and switch privative quit was just a segment. And then I realized, no, this is with this switch, pivot or quit name is really speaking to the real conversation that I want to have. The overall theme of everything. So this needs to be the name of it. So I ended up switching the name a few months in. And for me. I just wanted to create a conversation that would be beneficial to other people. And I realize that with so many people coming to me asking me about my story on my journey, people wanted to hear these types of stories. So I just knew that I had to be the person to tap into them. It wasn't like I had this, you know, extreme grand thought out marketing plan as to how I was going to use this podcast. Really, this podcast was just a channel for me to be helpful to other people.   [00:24:54] Yeah, so I and I've listened to episodes. I went back in your history to listen to some old ones and I've listened to the most recent ones. And and you do have this as you said, you've kind of created everything around the ethos. And I'm curious about the curation because you still have a lot a huge arena that you can draw from and you're still going to have to edit it down, as it were. You know, you've spoken to people about utility, about efficacy of their work schedule. You bring on women, or at least the ones I listen to where women are female, identified individuals with them. All of these different caveats as to, you know, how to increase your span and climbing in the workforce. A lot of people talk to I listen to one where you had two women on and one was advising that you start, you know, taking meetings with people and writing those those meeting notes down for yourself so that you keep them accountable. All these little tidbits that people can kind of incorporate into their wife. But I'm wondering how you curate who you bring on. I mean, how do you compose? Because you bring specialists on or people from different fields that have these really great pieces of advice for all umbrella. But how do you yourself compose that? Do you sit down on a monthly or weekly ledger? Do you let it kind of play out organically? How does that work?   [00:26:05] I actually let it play out organically. You would think that I have a much more like.   [00:26:11] Involved scheduling process or anything, but no, I think that a part of the beauty for the Switch to Quit podcast is the organic nature of it. I truly speak to people that I'm interested in hearing their story. Someone may have a great switch, private equity story, but if it doesn't move me and if I'm not interested, then unfortunately I don't want to hear from them because I don't think my audience will want to hear from them. I want to hear from people who I would have wanted to hear from or who have something to say that I think would have been useful when I was in the midst of transition. That's simply what it comes down to. That is the guiding light for the podcast. It's like so many people now are pitching to be on podcasts because they think it's a great way to market yourself and get yourself in front of other people's audience. And while it is, it has to make sense. People people who don't take any time to listen to our podcast before they pitch me, they pitch a man to me and they don't even realize I've never interviewed or spoken to a man on the podcast. Never. Never. So you could save yourself some time, you know. But what happens is people just get so caught up in the me, me, me of things that they don't think about. I'm trying to serve an audience here. I don't care about what your story is. I don't care about what your product that you're selling is. If it's not going to be beneficial for a group of people, if it's not going to be beneficial, I don't care about it. So that's really what my process looks like. I don't have some extreme process. I don't vet guests like, you know, get on the phone with them first and ask them 90 questions. No, it's about the feeling that I get. And do I think you're coming from an honest and authentic space? Do I think when I ask you questions, you're gonna give me cookie cutter answers or do I think you're gonna give me the raw answer that you didn't think about before a day before getting on this podcast interview? You know, I want people to come from a very honest and genuine and raw space so that other people can really connect with what they're saying, what they're sharing, because we're all trying to figure this life thing out.   [00:28:15] We don't have perfect answers for everything. But what we can share is our experiences. What we can share is what we've learned from our experiences. And if you're not willing to share that in an honest way, I don't want to talk to you. That's just what it comes down to.   [00:28:29] No, and it's marketing, too. You know, I always say I tell a lot of people I speak on a lot of podcasts about, you know, how how to start out podcasts and things like that, because I have so many and I say it's still the Wild West and confusing for people.   [00:28:42] You know, a podcast can take any form, it can be any length. They can do anything it wants. But the truth is, is that the true divisive line is that you have some podcasts that are truly about marketing and then you have others that are investigating something. Any number differences. And I think that some people get confused and try to go with their marketing agenda onto an investigative platform. And that's where the disparity can come up that you're talking about. And I truly agree to its podcast. For me, one of the most beautiful things about them is the transparency. It's supposed to hostile rhetoric, you know, and it's supposed to do so without having to have a degree in broadcast journalism. Anybody add up and share their story and their voice and it becomes authentic and real and some you tenuously a whole new genre of media that no one really knows what to do and how to classify it. And I love it for all of that. And so I think the marketing I feel like we just need channels for the marketing. So it kind of stays separated a little bit from the more authentic and real voice that you're talking about. Is that when you started just for people who are out there and listening about some of the logistics, how did you decide how many episodes you were going to release a week? How did you decide some of those earlier things? Did it change as you started doing? You know, if you started classing over into the hundreds mark? What episode do you know roughly are you on right now? And what's been some of the like the transformation that's happened with it?   [00:29:58] Sure. I think I'm about to 60 something right now. Two hundred and sixty something. I started off doing twice a week, so I used to do well. It was once a week and twice a week, sort of like this short timeframe. They blended together. But I started off doing weekly episodes because I at first I thought I could do like every other week. But then I quickly realized, like, why would you hold back? Go full throttle. And these are conversations that need to be heard. And if you really want to get people engaged in this conversation, you have to keep showing up for them. You can't give them too much time off. Right. So that was me trying to introduce the podcast and the conversation to people. Then I started doing this thing called Seven Minutes Sunday, because at the time I was having these musings that I really wanted to share in the podcast wasn't about me and my voice. Right. So I was from the beginning, I was interviewing people that it was very interview heavy and it wasn't about telling my stories so much so or giving my perspective so much. So when I started the seven minute Sundays is because more people wanted to hear from me and my thoughts on different things. So I started sharing those on Sundays because Sundays were the days that I dreaded the most. Right. A lot of people call the Sunday Skerries all these different things. Right. I have to go back into the week. Oh, my gosh. I don't feel like doing this. Or like, I just want Sunday to never end. Right. So I started off with that mindset of if we're talking about a switch, pivot or quit, we're talking about people who are in the midst of transition or entertaining a transition. So they may be feeling that way on a Sunday. Right. So what can I do to help serve them on a Sunday? To give them something to be motivated to go into the week or maybe shift their outlook on things or give them something to be excited about or positive about? So I started doing seven minute sundaes, did those for a while. Well over a year. And then eventually I got to a point more recently.   [00:32:00] So about two years, I would say to two and a half years I did weekly episodes without fail. And then I got to a point where I realized that especially some of my new listeners, they were having a hard time keeping up. You also have to pay attention to the landscape. Like you said, podcasting is still like the wild, wild west. You have some shows that are daily. You have some shows that are multiple times a week. You have some shows at their frequency is really, really high. Right. They have a loyal listenership. You have to pay attention to your listeners and your audience and who they are, what they have going on in their life. I realize there are a lot of working mothers in my community of listeners, and a lot of times people can't make the time to listen to a podcast like they want to. The intentions are there. The intentions are good, but sometimes they just can't make the time or now they're being torn because there's a lot of different options of things that you can listen to. And, you know, before when I first started, I feel like it wasn't as many options. Right. So now there's more options. There was more voices in the space. So they have to decide where they're going to go and how much time they're going to devote to these different podcasts. So I started to pull back and I started to do every other week for a little while because I wanted to give people time to catch up. And I wanted to give people time to actually listen. I'm not producing this stuff just to say that I produce it. I did it. I'm producing it so that it can bring value into your life. But if you don't have the time to listen to it or if you haven't had the time to catch up and I just keep producing more episodes, is it really benefiting you? So that's where I have sort of gotten to at this point. Right now I'm doing weekly episodes for like the next two month months because I'm also incorporating older episodes. I'm doing reboots so that people who haven't been listening from the beginning can tap back in to some of the great conversations that were had way early on and that are still relevant.   [00:33:51] That's very clever. And I've talked to a lot of people that have done this, the idea of kind of, you know, and they've they've edited down, they've spliced it back in. They've come back in with commentary. And it's some of my most favorite work with some of the most prolific podcasters I've spoken to, because you grow as a podcast or any way and to reflect back and say, you know, at this point and I'm not sure how you're doing yours, but this kind of editorial content and weighing in on yourself or the other previous formats is I think I love it. I do. I mean, I'd love it for someone else. You know, people ask why I'm not doing it. And I'm like that nerve wracking, you know, looking older version of me. I'm always like who is she.   [00:34:29] I know right. Ha!   [00:34:33] I love the idea and the ones that I've listened to, there's nothing better than someone going back over their older work and giving you a latter day commentary on it. It's just a beautiful thing, particularly for me, for a female voice, because the female mind has always been so reflective in my life. I wanted to ask you about. We have a lot of people who write in, and because you're such a prolific podcast and you have such a like a wonderfully bird's eye view of everything, you have this PR background and things like that, sponsorship and partnership and all of these things, again, still very undocumented. I've spoken to a lot of people who have gone. I spoke with someone who had three episodes out of a podcast and immediately was acquired and she was on her history in PR and marketing. And she just started reaching out like with this ferocity, you know, and it was just responded to by these major conglomerates is with excitement. So there are people that want to do as such and at least receive some kind of compensation or partnering with people but don't know. How did you yourself how long did it take? Did you have you reached out? You have sponsorship or partnership? If so, how long did it take you to do it? And who advised you? How did you know how to reach out to. How did you find your applicable partners? How did all of that work?   [00:35:46] So I was podcasting well over a year before I started doing hosts read ads. So there were ads running on my show, but they weren't read by me.   [00:36:00] So that it wasn't about. It wasn't until about a year. And then I started doing that and they started coming my way. Actually, I had a agency come to me and want to represent me, and I was like, OK, we could do this. And so that's where I sort of started my introduction to it. But for me, I knew that there was potential to incorporate ads and to be able to generate revenue in that way. But it wasn't a focus of mine. And I think that that was beneficial because. It didn't make me alter my content early on to please a certain audience. You know, my ah, my content was already flowing. It was already in the vein that it was going to be in. Once these people came on board. And so it's like either you like what I'm doing and you want to be a part of it or you don't. And we would never have a conversation if you don't. Right. So it's fine. So for me, it was a very natural progression. But I do think that a lot of people start podcasting because they think that it's going to be a money maker. And I think the thing you have to realize is that the average podcasts and numbers have probably changed a little bit. But the average podcasts, let's just say you're somebody who starts a podcast. Nobody knows you. You're trying to build traction with this podcast. You're probably gonna get less than 200 people listening per episode. That's normal. And so many people see some of the larger podcasters and attraction that they have and they start podcasting thinking that that's where they should be going. That's what they should be aiming to do. But what you have to realize is sometimes people that come into this space who are able to do large numbers like that, either they've already been in the space in another way, showed up on another show, whatever, they have some history. They may be already have some type of celebrity or following some type of fan fair behind them, and they're able to transfer that over. So I say don't put pressure on yourself to get advertisers from the beginning because you want to make sure that you maintain the integrity of your show before you start looping other people into the conversation. Podcasting is a very intimate experience. We all know that it's just like you and this person. It feels very one on one. So before you start bringing in an advertiser and potentially tainting that relationship, you want to make sure that the listener has a chance to get to know you first before they start getting to know all these other brands that you're potentially working with. And that's just how I feel being on the indie side. I know when you go into a space where you get acquired by a larger network or things like that, you don't have as much say. So it's about the money. It's about the dollars. What how can we do numbers? How can we get more advertisers and. Right. So those are the things that you need to be mindful of as well as well. It's like where are you showing up in the podcasting space? Yes. And yet I kind of like my I don't answer your questions.   [00:39:05] It does. No, it does. And I think there's a lot there's a lot to explore there. And, you know, you can Google it and it comes up with kind of a bland stereotypical like here's how here's what you want, pictures which want to do. But I always like to encourage people as well to really think about the tradeoff.   [00:39:18] I am very protective, creative property, you know, and also ID if you know, if you have someone if you're going with them, there is these like as you kind of mentioned, I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but there's these kind of conglomerate agent type people that, you know, if you have a certain amount of listeners or you're in a certain genre, want to attach ads. But then you have to ask yourself whether or not you identify with those ads. I like you. I'm in a huge space with female film identified, not binary individuals. There's a lot of major companies that have A.I. rhetoric for trans communities. And, you know, my podcast was inadvertently attached to that. Then I would immediately not service that community. Or so you have to be a little bit more cognizant rather than just kind of looking for getting funding. You know, I think that it's hysterical. The idea of of of making money off of it is you probably not in the right game. I'd say play like the craps tables in Vegas before asking if you're looking for money, like that's your better odds are over there.   [00:40:15] Yeah. What we didn't touch on and what I should say is that in order to in order for a typical advertiser to be interested in you like the big box guys. Right. That it may lead the B to C, people like Casper Madres, all these different people we regularly see show up in the space. Right. Those people want you to have them. They do it by cost per thousand CPM. And that means that you have to have a minimum of, let's say, two thousand, not even 1000, let's say a minimum of two thousand people listening per episode. And what did I tell you before? Sometimes it's hard for most people to get two hundred people listening, let alone two thousand. And that's not to be negative. And it's not to bring you down and shoot your dreams down. It's just to say, let's be realistic. Realistically, this is what these people are looking for, because this is industry standard, if you will, even though it's the wild, wild West and it's what makes sense for them to try and get there are a wide. So you have to be mindful of what you bring to the table and what they're looking for you to bring to the table before you start trying to enter these conversations about potential advertising sponsors, because you might be getting in over your head if you do it too early, especially.   [00:41:34] Most definitely. And there's coaches, there's all sorts of things out there now for podcasters and things which again, I encourage people that invest heavily, you know, really look at people's background as much as they're going to be looking at yours and your numbers. Quickly switch over to talking about your most recent book. Before we run out of time. Quit playing small. Yes.   [00:41:57] There for people who are watching the vodcast. It's right there. We were talking you gave me like a little bread cart before we started recording. And you talked about the cover art. So I want to start with that. What is the story behind that?   [00:42:09] So I actually went to ninety nine designs and had this cover art drawn up.   [00:42:16] What I did was I found someone who creative projects similar to what the feel was that I wanted to go for. They had a little fun. They had a little creativity. But the thing that I think people think they can do, especially self publishing, this book is self published. This is my second book is self published. But I always knew from the very beginning that when you're self publishing, you want your book to be able to sit on the shelf next to a traditionally published book. And no one can tell the difference. That's what the goal is. So I knew with my cover, I wanted it to give a certain feel. I wanted it to pop. Had you ever been in a bookstore? Most of us don't go on bookstores as much anymore. Right. But if you're walking them out and you see something and it pops out to you and then you look at the back cover. Right. I knew that it needed to pop. I knew I didn't know anything about the color combination that I wanted or anything. I just gave the designer direct. I told him told her what projects that I like that she had done. And then I told her what kind of look and feel I was going for. And I also told her what the vibe was of the book. What type of content we were delivering. You have to sort of like basically give this background or what you're looking for the designer to create because you can't just say this is the name of my book, create something. You have to give them an idea of what the feeling is that you want the reader to have when they look at the book. This book is supposed to be for your morning routine. Right. Daily inspiration for your morning routine. When you look at this, I want you to feel happy. I don't want you to feel like home. I'm going to pick up that book off my nightstand. I want you to be excited, like, oh, look at this. These big red lips, it just gives me fire and energy. Let's go for the day. Where am I gonna flip to? That's how you want to look at it. And then you also want to be conscious of with a cup with the back cover, looks like as well. What's going to make it pop? Have your picture on it. Have a great picture. A really high resolution picture this side, the spine of the book as well. When this is on a shelf and you can't see the cover, is this still going to pop out to you at least enough to where it catches your eye a little bit? So all of these things are important when you're talking about the cover of a book. You can work your hardest and put the most amazing content in your book. But if the cover does not speak to people, nobody is going to open it and you want them to open it.   [00:44:49] Yes. Absolutely, and also I love that those pieces of information. It's so true. I mean, we haven't even talked about the kind of the core aspects of the book. And we've already climbed through like a great deal of the ethos of it. You know, I can kind of get a feel for all of it. It also strikes me, as you know, you've kind of zoned in on an audience with the art alone, whether or not you intended to. It feels directed towards my people, you know, feels it towards women of a certain caliber of a professional statue. Those types of things without even reading the verbiage, you know, the colors, the art, everything that you're talking about. It does speak to all of that I want to climb into. Well, when you were writing it. Who were you writing it for? What did you keep your audience in mind? And what are they like them? Five main key points. If you were forced to boil it down or are less than five that you want people to take away from it.   [00:45:37] So when I was writing it, I was definitely writing it for my switch, pivot or quick audience on that podcast we talk about, we ask guests about their morning routine. I've talked to them before about my morning routine. We talk about staying motivated and just things that are going to make you continue to go throughout this journey. We talk about the fact that our careers, our lives are a journey. Right. So I wanted to create something that would accompany people on that journey. It didn't have to be. This is the other thing. Like you guys may have figured out about me by now. I don't like the fluff. Right. I can't stand when you're reading a book and you're like this far in. And you still haven't gotten to the meat of what they're trying to tell you. It's like, no, I just give me the goods. Like, that's all I need. So I decided I want to create. I wanted to create something that would be able to kind of like smack people in the face, sometimes, lift them up other times. Tell them grow. Get it together sometimes. Give them a little hug. Other times, you know. So all of these entries are super, super short. Like, it's very, very, like approachable in the way that it's position. And that's because I also knew that my audience was ambitious women who are out there on the go trying to get things done. Sometimes their morning routine cannot consists of an entire hour. They may have fifteen minutes. And if they can spend two of those minutes reading something from this book, getting their mind right and getting them positively pushed in the right direction, then I did my job, you know. And so when it comes to like, what do I want them to walk away from this book with? I want them to walk away encouraged. I want them to walk away inspired. I want them to walk away feeling like they can. I want them to walk away understanding that a lot of this comes from what I've learned off of my journey. So you're not alone in the things that you're experiencing or even things that you're thinking. Right. So I just want them to feel like they're a part of a community and that somebody gets what's happening with them.   [00:47:48] Yeah, that's wonderful. I love that. It's I mean, how could anyone not want that? You know, I do love the concise. I do. I get very into these, like, grabby. You know, I do like the novel as well. But I think that right now, especially for that genre, you know, getting these really quick tidbits of like empowerment and structure and just things to kind of set the intention for the day and really requestion and reorganize like you're talking about is amazing. I want to turn now really quickly to. You have so many things that you've done thus far. And so I love asking people, particularly of your candor, because I'm curious as to what the next one to three years do. You look at your life that way? Do you. Do you put it in form of format? Do you do vision boards? Do you just say forget it? I'm taking it as it comes. How do you set up your goals and what do those goals look like for you?   [00:48:37] You know, I wish I could tell you guys that I'm more of this goal oriented person that just breaks everything down and goes, what? I do write things down and I do write some goals down. And I have an awareness of what I want and where I want to go. But I don't dwell on it. I don't stress myself out about it. So for me, a lot of I have those goals and those things that I identify with. A lot of it is. I just have faith that I'm gonna be OK, that things are going to work out in my favor. I say every morning I got this from Jen and Cheryl. I say I receive all the good that life has to offer me. That is how I move. So I feel like if I'm moving in, that space is really is it is really hard for a ton of bad things to just be, you know, and I and I'm going I don't have the time to let my mind swirl and worry about what's not going right and what's not happening. It's like, let me focus on the positive. And in the back of my mind, having an idea of where I want to go with things. So for me, I want to continue to build amazing media. That's something that I know. But I'm even pivoting in the way that I'm structuring mazy media, in the way that I'm going about doing the work that I do with Mazey media. But the only way that you can pivot is if you start somewhere. I had to get started in order to see some things that I would potentially want to do different. So I'm a big person that loves I'm big on action, I should say. So I think that's why sometimes I don't get stuck on the goals in writing everything down and all this stuff because I'm too busy doing I'm doing well all the time. Somebody else is set their thought about a vision, board it, it and everything else. I'm done. And I now I figured out what works and what doesn't work. Right. So sometimes I think we can hold ourselves back and we can play small when we try and do too much planning. Right. So for me, that's one of my big goals, is expanding mazy media and really digging more into the corporate side, because I think that there's a lot of conversations that can be had over there that are not being had internally. So I'm digging way more into that now, working with corporations, a lot more to develop conversations via a podcast. And I'm also working with more original content now, working on developing a lot more original content for the mazing media platform. And when I say original content content that has come from within the company and not outside the company, somebody bringing it to us saying, hey, we want to see if you would want to, you know, help us produce the show that we're already producing. And then I'm also working on just speaking of quit playing smart, there's going to be a podcast for this. There's going to be a podcast for this with quick doses of inspiration. So I'm working on that as well. That'll come toward the end of the year. And I'm just working on obviously just trying to be the best version of myself. That's what I'm always trying to do. And I feel like as long as I'm working on being the best version of myself, nothing but goodness is going to come from that or as a result of that, absolutely good intention to the light of enlightenment.   [00:51:44] I love it. All right. So we're fine. We're wrapping up at my final question. Ask every guest, and I can always ask you, because you're your last book was based on advice. And so I'm wondering if you walked up to someone in a safe so so distance in a Gardiner Park tomorrow. And for the sake of this question, it's a female woman identified or non binary individual. And they said, listen, I'm so glad I found you. We have a friendship of a mutual friend in common. She's recommended I talk to you. I've had this prolific career and I had, you know, a side hustle that did very well as well. And I've decided that even though both of them are going swimmingly, I was going to pivot and go on into. I've started writing a book and doing these things, but I really want to just change into true answering of my happiness and kind of developed my kingdom within that. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual? Knowing what you know now?   [00:52:37] That's a great question, I would say. One thing that I have learned and that I share with people at the end of the quit playing small workshops that I do. Is your greatest success, Lives behind your greatest fear.   [00:52:53] And I realize that I learned that because the things that I may have been intimidated to try or to do, those are some of the things that have made me felt feel the most proud and have given me like the most boost in my person and feeling like, wow, you're really doing something. You know, you're really making some kind of headway or making some type of difference. So I would say that. I would say. Really start to know and understand yourself, because when you know and understand yourself, it's easier for you to make decisions. It's easier for you to identify where you're going and where you want to go. Just like what we talked about before, having these goals and winding down and all of that stuff. If you don't know yourself, the goals that you identify may not be in alignment with who you are and what you're truly capable of achieving. So I would say really start to explore and get to know yourself. And then finally, I would say. Back away from the comparison game because nobody else has lived this life before you. You are the first to do it. You are uniquely in only you. So who are you comparing yourself to realistically? This person that you maybe compare yourself to or these people you don't know their background. You don't know their history. You don't know their story. You don't even know what lies ahead of them. So if you really thought about it your while you're sitting here comparing yourself to them, would you really want to change positions with them? I wouldn't I wouldn't, you know, so I think so many of us get caught up in. I want to do this or I think I want to do a version of this. And so until I was over here doing it and it looks great while they're doing it, so maybe I should try and do like them. And then when I try and do like them, I'm not getting the results that they're getting. My results don't look like their results do. I'm a failure. No, your you your results look perfect for you. You actually have nobody to compare to because there isn't another Aiyana Angel who live this life 100 years before me. And I'm comparing myself to what she did back then. No. Just doesn't exist. It's not realistic. So that's what I would share with someone who walked up to me six feet away and asked me that question.   [00:55:30] And I love your last point because it speaks so much in the face of this whole, like, competition value culture that we have, which, you know, you got to you have the best competition.   [00:55:39] Who's your next competition? Who you fighting against this idea of like. OK. So really quickly, I have your greatest success lives behind your greatest fear. Number one, which I love. I think that that one can sit on so many different planes with so many different areas of one's life.   [00:55:54] Number two, know and understand yourself.   [00:55:57] It will create fluidity between your reality and your desires. So truly knowing and understanding yourself. And number three, back away from the comparison game.   [00:56:06] Absolutely awesome. I love those so much. I know we are out of time, but I wanted to say I know you're horrifically busy and beautifully busy at the same time.   [00:56:15] So grateful that you took the time to sit down with us. You have your own thing going on your own podcast. I want everyone to attach themselves to that. Have a listen to several episodes at the very least, and check out your books really quickly. Will you give us the name of both of those?   [00:56:33] Absolutely. Thank you so much Patricia for having me. This has been a great conversation. Great. In that your questions were just so thoughtful. So thank you. Everybody can find me at Yana Angel dot com and that she's h why I a in a angel dot com. My very first book, the one that talked about early on, was a novel and it's called Preseason Love. And my second book, which I self published, is called Quit Playing Small and it's available on Amazon everywhere now. And be sure to check out the switch, pivot, a quick podcast. And if you are on Instagram, you can follow me at a Yanta Dot Angel on Instagram. I tend to hang out there. We go live sometimes and I just talk my talk and do my thing. So hang out with me.   [00:57:21] And for everyone listening. Thank you so much for giving me your time today. I really do appreciate all of you. We've been speaking with Ahyiana Angel. She's founder, podcast and author and another one of her Web sites, W WW, Dutch Switch, Pivot or quits. All of the others that she mentioned as well.   [00:57:37] Thank you for giving us your time today. And until we speak again, remember, just stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am speaking with Vinay Bhambwani. Vinay is a fitness entrepreneur and nutrition expert. His coaching portfolio includes celebrities, athletes, businessmen and regular joe.  He aims to share the knowledge and science of fitness, and create awareness and education about the importance of well being and living a better quality of life through fitness. With this vision he launched Muscle Manual, the world's first completely free digital magazine. The magazine has featured some of the world's most successful fitness influencers, Olympia winners, and world record holding athletes. Muscle Manual has been read by over 400,000 people in over 45 countries and is going to be relaunched in August 2020. Vinay is also a 3rd generation chocolatier, and rebranded his family dessert company to Lush Healthy Chocolates. He lives in Mumbai where he continues to learn and share his knowledge in the field of nutrition and training. Key points addressed were   Vinay's background in Nutrition and fitness as well as his personal history and study in regards to fasting We also discussed Vinay's book: Intermittent Fasting: A Science-Based Approach and how it narrates the core principles of what Vinay believes to be the most important aspects of fasting as well as some of the most crucial points for those looking to start incorporating fasting into their lives This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] With us from over in India. So we have a bit of a time delay, but we are all going to make do and I do appreciate everyone's patience as we get through the podcast. I know that the information will be well worth the time delay. For those of you that are new to this podcast, I will read a brief bio on Vinay to give you a platform before asking him to describe his own personal narrative himself prior to doing that. Quick roadmap for today's podcast. We will first look at Vinay's. As I said, his academic, professional and personal story as it relates to fasting and fitness and almost all of his endeavors that he has had with in and around those areas and subjects, we'll then look at.   [00:00:46] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas in an effort to explore the world of fasting from a variety of angles. This dialog is meant to develop a more complete story about the information, research, personal stories and culture in and around the science and lifestyle of fasting. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Vegan life and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .Com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:38] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I am excited to be sitting down with the Vinay Bhambwani. Vinay is a fitness expert, entrepreneur, nutrition expert and the founder of Fitness magazine. You can find out more about everything we talk about today, as well as all of the news endeavors on his Web site. One of his Web sites, w w w dot muscle manual mag, dot com. That is m u s c l e m a and u l m a g dot com. Welcome, Vinay.   [00:02:13] Thank you for having me.   [00:02:15] Absolutely. For everyone listening. Vinay has been so gracious as to speak with us from over in India. So we have a bit of a time delay, but we are all going to make do. And I do appreciate everyone's patience as we get through the podcast. I know that the information will be well worth the time delay. For those of you that are new to this podcast, I will read a brief bio on Vinay to give you a platform before asking him to describe his own personal narrative himself. Prior to doing that, a quick roadmap for today's podcast. We will first look at Vinay's. As I said, his academic, professional and personal story as it relates to fasting and fitness and almost all of his endeavors that he has had with in and around those areas and subjects. We'll then look at unpacking some of the terms that Vinay employs when he talks about fasting. These are areas that kind of differentiate everyone. And while we all think we know what one another talking about, I find that unpacking terms is a key and essential part when discussing the science of fasting and nutrition. We'll then look at his book that specifically speaks to fasting. It's titled Intermittent Fasting, a science based approach, which was also published under his online magazine Muscle Manual a few months ago. And so we'll first look at unpacking his book, namely the core kind of components of the information that it relays his audience that he had in mind, things of that nature. And then we'll turn straight to unpacking his online magazine, the Muslim manual mag, and all of the information that it has. It has an enormous following. It's worldwide and kind of unpack what it services and what it maintains, what it holds in any transitions that it may or may not be going through. We'll then turn our efforts towards unpacking any perceptions that Vinay himself has regarding the pandemic and societal conversation between health and fasting and some of the dialog that has been changing globally over the past few months. And then we'll wrap everything up with some rapid fire questions that everyone has written in who has asked us to ask fitness experts such as we need to kind of answer to and that will be everything. So as promised, prior to peppering him with questions, a quick bio Vinay Bhambwani is a fitness entrepreneur and nutrition expert. His coaching portfolio includes celebrities, athletes, businessmen and the regular Joe. He aims to share the knowledge and science of fitness and create awareness and education about the importance of wellbeing and living a better quality of life through fitness. With this vision, he launched Muscle Manual, The World's first completely free digital magazine. The magazine has featured some of the world's most successful fitness influencers. Olympia winners and world record holding athletes. Muscle Manual has been read by over 400000 people in over forty five countries and is going to be relaunched in August of 2020. I'll have him kind of draw that out for us in print, pushed back, I think, just by a month. And so it's exciting to be on the verge of talking about that. Vinay is also a third generation chocolatier and rebranded his family dessert company to lush, healthy chocolates. He lives in Mumbai, where he continues to learn and share his knowledge in the field of nutrition and training. Savani. I cannot wait to kind of climb through everything, you know, beginning with your book and kind of ending with this chocolatier wonderful endeavor that you have been born into. But before we get to all of that, I was hoping that you could briefly describe your professional, academic and personal story as it relates to nutrition and health and fasting and how everything kind of brought you to where we are going to be talking about today.   [00:05:54] Thanks for that introduction, Patricia. And once again, thanks for having me. So I started off my fitness junkie duty early. I grew up really skinny and I was absolutely horrible at sports, so I had a hard time dealing with that at school. And fortunately, my dad had the right role models. You know, he was looking out on all that, Sylvester. And so I grew up watching those kind of 80s action movies. Well, I'll go. And I violated some citizens. And so I knew that was kind of the direction in which I wanted to have. By the age of 14, I was the really, really good. Yeah. I almost got my black belt. I was on a national level. But it got kind of boring to the point that once, you know, at a national level like the age of 14, there's not much more to fill up.   [00:06:42] So I decided to. And what I realized was modern skating. I was enjoying the evening with others. So I said, let me just get into training. So diamonds and everything that nobody else could get. So I got into training. My dad gave me this book called The Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding. It was 800 pages. You had an audition in 1970. It's a copy of A Choice, but it's written by Arnold Schwarzenegger, S.I. So that's all I got. What I got up on. I've started training at the age of 18, basically, so stop using that. I only just met. By the age of 16, I started studying. S. I don't know all of people out the study for sports nutrition, also studying them by the age of 18, I have got my post nutrition, sex education, training. So I'm a little kid. But I was never really happy with academic sense to something that I dedicated in school, because when it comes to science and sickness in particular, I debate is up in the syllabus. And by all the science is going to be all you know. So by the time I'm studying this nutrition course, the syllabus is yours and the science is going to move on. So my approach has always kind of sense and you do want to be sick also, but it's Muslim and I think it times and research the. So that's kind of how my journey started. I was just a young, enthusiastic kid when you wanted to do something in the field of fitness, but I didn't know what I mean. I knew that switching was my thing, my initial I vls to launch an online fitness coach thing, which eight years ago it was too early for the Indian market for that kind of service, but it just wasn't happening and it just wasn't going anywhere.   [00:08:31] And I figured, let me stop watching people in person until then. And it turns out that was the best decision I ever made. That's the best way to become a good paunches of the experience. And unless you have that, you can't have the things in place. Female. Because you just don't have the experience and know what the kinds. Well, I started beating people up. At the age of 19, I was fortunate who I came across this getting, who's a bodybuilder from grilles and you can't be here. And you're doing a book about this battle. Yes.   [00:09:11] And he was holding eat and beat it. Where he was. And. Well, yet another influence I had growing up was this magazine. And I was always good at English and writing. I said, I'm knackered. So I'm inspired back to this getting at this point at the age of 19. And I go to his book signing, I put a copy of this book. I stand in Q4 and I use my sense. And when I get a chance to talk to him, I tell him that, you know you know, my role model is. I've known this man. And maybe when I do love you some. And he was kind enough to sign in the copy of the big. And the moment that happened, I was like, okay, now this has to happen and I'm gonna untangles going to go live to his words. So I found that just two weeks later, we were having the one of the largest expos ever. And it's gone. And we had athletes and bodybuilders all around the world attending this event. And I knew just getting to that, too. And at this point, I didn't still have a plan to launch a magazine. I was 19 years old going to college. I didn't really know what I'm doing. I have my basic nutrition. I'm training so patient. But, yeah, I still don't exactly have a business acumen to make sense of it. But I decided that it's a good idea. What does this mean that steeps? I mean, it's built up. I've had a few conversations I'm seeing with. So I said that with a friend, with your camera and my mobile phone, we just record and do interviews and introduce myself and things kind of take off over that. I suddenly I'm sitting and talking to some of the biggest athletes on the most successful names, industriousness in NASCAR all around the. And I get a lot of interviews, but does not plan on launching a magazine. That's not name. That's Brand. I don't really even know how to do it. And so I decide that within the next 20 days, because I was getting isn't. I've got e-mail ideas. It's fine. So from the day I met captain of the signing, it was the. And then two weeks later, we launched the first issue of. In where I just put it together, writing most of that is myself asking my science to teach me how to design it and if I don't get up and just a makeshift website which was not ready to be on, but that was like the spark in my head that showed me that this had some huge potential with you. And my goal was always to put all the magazines obsolete, because one of the things that I aspire to do is to transform at least one hundred thousand people with in my lifetime. To help answer this. And one other than a personal coaching one, we can do that by publishing on. Dandrige credible information. Shannon. Deal, because on Magazine Street, eventually. But then all of us and our readers at one point, one million views on it. And I got this young kid who doesn't know the licking his hand on the missiles.   [00:12:20] Right. But eventually I decided to take a break. And Lou Diamond watching. And just take a hiatus. I'm five years late, but I am ready to relaunch the. Big project, big of athletes and some huge names like.   [00:12:36] Nice. Absolutely. So here's what I'm curious about. You decided to launch the original version of the magazine online and you did it really quickly within this couple week timeframe. It sounds like at least the initial launch, even though it was clumsy. It was up. And you said that your direction was kind of being made up as you went along. But curious, in the original inception and the original launch, how what was your audience chip like? Because now you've been you know, it's been visited by over four hundred thousand people. It's a massive feat. Originally, when you launched. How did you garner or glean readership?   [00:13:16] Well, it was really hot, the first issue we had, maybe 20 does county and most of them are probably my friends and family. But after that, we launched our social media page. I was really good at that. You go to marketing and things all within one year we had, I think, 60000 followers just on. I found like we had a bunch of stuff biodata. So we buy a bit, forget thousands of views Web site within the last year. Other than that, because the magazine is free. All other models have been fairly kind. It must have been. I would be active on the social media and that because the kind of shared this vision that it's to educate the masses about living a. So can you be happy? I am. And all of these athletes that we go on O magazine, they have massive social former. So I'm grateful to them being happy. Authorities in Sudan did not eat any lunch.   [00:14:18] Yeah, absolutely. I want to climb into a couple of terms now before we get into your book. Your book does a good job of kind of laying out what you're going to be looking at and the title, indeed, you know, intermittent fasting, a science based approach, kind of spells out how you're coming at the subject. But I first want to get into how you personally define some things. So the first one is, it seems rote and transparent, although it's not. How do you yourself define fasting? Do you find. Do you define it as going without food? Food and liquids? Is there different ways of you know, people think I've spoke with someone that thought that even if you were drinking your nutrients, that was a form of fasting. So how do you personally define fasting?   [00:15:03] That's a good question, because it's going to be so contextualize on each person's individual level goes on what they're getting into it. But to give you a definition, for me, intermittent fasting is a specific timing program where you limit your book.   [00:15:19] The second to putting your own goals, whether that's for anti aging, whether that's what we've lost, where the ducks fall in growth, productivity goes just stamina. What about. Doesn't matter to me. Intermittent fasting is when you set a specific thing, Glenn. Personally, I don't believe in consuming.   [00:15:38] I mean, you new in Boston to me, if you're Tommaseo modern practicalities starting. Your source is as good as that's personally my opinion and what I have studied in science is that I want to give the maximum I'm going to consumers. Least you're probably just upsets me.   [00:15:59] It also talks about the maximum food intake that would allow during a fast I'm OK, give it as many drinks as you can consume, whether that's water, black eating. It was allowed during the fasting. But personally, I'm not a big believer of any liquid nutrition intake or anything during fasting have a more traditional approach.   [00:16:22] Yeah, absolutely. And what do you. Let's get into some of the forums and this is kind of unpacking one of your chapters in your book. But what are the most common forms of fasting that you employ or that you recommend your clients employ?   [00:16:35] So the top you have, you start off with a 12. I asked, I think.   [00:16:43] Yeah, there's a lot of different ways you can sum it up. The gold standard is 16 hours. The reason being that other than all the other benefits, you get so exhausting, it was the limited calorie intake. Their insulin levels that both hormone levels up and then all of those benefits at the 16 hour Mako fasting up and get for it and you stop to get all the health benefits.   [00:17:05] Also, getting rid of stock sense from your body and also MDH autophagy is a very good process, which only takes this one missile sting in the process where the body eliminates, stops, ends and gets rid of stops. It takes place when you're not eating, when you're asking for a long time. So generally autophagy kicks and the novel stops when sleep. But by extending that time period, by fasting, you're extending the amount of time or space in your body and maximizing the long of stocks enjoyed.   [00:17:39] So and you also talk about a twenty four, right? So it's a 24 hour out, 20 hour fast and a four. Is that the same for you as, oh, MADD, which is a lot of times that's an acronym one meal a day or from dinner to dinner. There's a lot of ways of saying this, but do you feel like a 24 is the same approach or is it slightly different from MADD in that people could eat potentially twice within those four hours?   [00:18:03] That's going to deter us from person to person and what your capacity is like. Personally, when I do my 24 hour fast, I need two meals. I feel like if I don't eat meals, I'm going to wake up really hungry that next day. And I'm going to feel really unproductive and destructive because I knew fast, what, 24 hours. All you have is like a night. Eat your meal before you put your. And I been in the morning, I need to be a little more fuel for my book.   [00:18:30] That's my personal preference. If somebody is able to get obesity on me, let that's exceptional. Well, if you can do that. That is some all I one solution for us. If you're eating full meals on a. OK.   [00:18:47] Do you personally. I'm wondering how often you employ eating 24 hour or twenty, slash four fast. Do you do it regularly? Is it a constant? Do you do it occasionally for weight management? Health increase bodybuilding world. Are you employing your fasting for personally?   [00:19:09] I generally employ like a 16 to 20 hour source, depending on what time I start working the day to be transparent with you, I don't have the best relationship with food.   [00:19:18] I really don't like eating. I grew up in that kind of a spiral. And the problem with being skinny quite a while I put on a good amount of muscle. I used to be 40 pounds heavier than I am, I suppose. But I've since dropped on my feet and I've just done a little simple, comfortable life.   [00:19:38] So for me right now, 16 to 20 hours can be good. It makes it convenient. And on my walk, on my bike in the morning, I'll be forceful and then have my skills. Yeah. Personally, I find that productive. My insulin levels are stable. When you eat, your blood sugar levels fluctuate with fasting. Those levels are really stable. Plus, most people like my sense, well, Austin, probably few lessons with a caffeine flow, a good living. So we generally don't have any energy deficiencies or any weakness or exhaustion.   [00:20:16] Good enough. Once the whole season that frosting your body only adapt fairly well and you become a high.   [00:20:25] Mm hmm.   [00:20:26] Yeah. A 24 hour fast one sale question is something I'd buy once in two weeks or maybe once a month just to get some of them off and using benefits.   [00:20:35] I'm a little confused in that sense of how I look. So once in a while. And you still us. Just why aren't you doing better?   [00:20:42] But it does make desiccant district.   [00:20:45] You know, I know somebody can do it even just once a week.   [00:20:51] Yeah. What are your what's the longest fast you personally have ever engaged in?   [00:20:57] Probably took you 6000. That was by mistake because I had like it was just said, ask me. I had to it was during this time dynamic and I could go out, get groceries at my parents house and have them out. I've woken up and one after the other, you know, one.   [00:21:12] Dusko, I was one bloke. I mean, one. Yeah. And then I had my client obligations later on. So it dawned out that my 16 hour foskett extended. It was because of all these woke up. And I said, you know, I've got 22 guys, I might as well push a little bit longer H20.   [00:21:29] So Berlusconi backs the accident. I honestly, I think it was I thought I would see under the stuff, but it turns out that you can overcome any obstacle and. So it was by accident that I did thank you for lost, lost for the first time. And then one week later, same thing happens. And I said this time. I know it's easy. So let me just push through. Thirty six thousand seehofer.   [00:21:56] Yeah, absolutely, I think that a lot of people experienced the mental component of fasting, you know, early on and then again revisit it as they continue their fasting. I'm wondering, you mentioned earlier about, you know, that the anti aging benefits and things of that nature that you really have tapped into. And I like talking to fasters who employ it personally, such as yourself, who don't have an issue with weight management and aren't currently employing it for that reason, because the universe of fasting, you know, historically has been used for thousands of years, mainly for disease fighting and prevention, as well as, you know, mental clarification, skills and things of that nature. And this is a huge school fasters that's still kind of run around with the physical benefits that exceed weight loss and management, as well as tapping into some of the intellectual benefits from it that philosophers from thousands of years ago have, you know, employed. And I'm curious for you yourself personally, have you looked at using fast in these other aspects? You talk about anti aging aspects and things of that nature. Can you talk to some of the specifics? Is it just for the, you know, the regenerate generation of the cells? Are you talking about autophagy or what what areas for you personally, are you engaging with fasting when you get into the health benefits?   [00:23:16] Yeah, yeah, absolutely right. I don't have any issue with weight management. I'm doing this only because of the convenience and the health benefits it brings into my life.   [00:23:24] You know what I needed? I was all using it for weight management to drop some of the excess muscle, but I had. But after a while, I realized that the longer you start, the more you would just see more and more benefits. Right. And I saw the amount of convenience that this was bringing into my life by finishing all of my adult swim store and then relaxing. That's only. Increased productivity being based.   [00:23:50] The energy levels, it became more and more clear to me that the longer you fast, the more health benefits you see and as compared with a million Helfant from any reason security us. Look at it this way it is. Go in wasting your time and energy in asking how much are you getting compared to that? And to be real, you're not really interesting any time in which you're saving time by fasting, if anything. And the amount of help that.   [00:24:19] Under. So my ideal way to look at it is why wouldn't I?   [00:24:26] As it was, I'm sure. Yeah, I agree. It's funny that you say that, though. I think a lot of people there's still a great deal of hypertension around it. Even people who are excited about the idea of fasting, there's an emotional relationship. It sounds you personally lack, you know, with this hyper focus on food and and for good reason and a lot of countries in people's lives. I'm wondering, when you apply fasting, have you ever prescribed it for clients? And if so, what's the top reason? Is it weight loss and management or is it you know, there's a lot to be told with there a great deal of athletes that I'm sure you featured on your site, then employ fasting for their muscle healing and rejuvenation and the anti swelling properties they're getting into fasting can have with muscle healing, particularly biathletes and things like that. So whom have you kind of prescribed it to as you've been coaching people in health and fitness with fasting?   [00:25:24] The brief answer would be anyone and everyone. Do you want to gain weight, lose weight? I recommend fasting for everyone. I'm not very pushy with any of my claims on any kind of chinstrap. What I like to boost generally understand the Slainte an assessment. Folks who understand this line's preconceived notions about fasting because so many of us have been conditioned to believe it. For instance, on unhealthy, it means a lot of people are really ambition who believe that it's really outdated science. New science is really showing me the drawbacks of fasting. So I really recommend anyone what I like, where they a sense. Question on. Not Austin, whether they had mission in mind busting. Then I explain some aspects that are going to add to your previous question, which I'm sorry. Other than the weight management of Betty, what do you boss? Number one is that you get by. Studies have shown that fasting and stem cell regeneration as we grow older are endurance stimulus and so stuff. But flossing kind of. And even though in the University of South. So this is one of the benefits of doing that, like I mentioned, just the increased productivity and energy levels is something that everyone with. But the. Again, some people have that chance when it comes to what he's put in mind in terms when Vegan us. Look good. It'll be fine. And it's Kofman oh oh. But this was just your body adjusting it well, it's like like I'm getting used to a different. Another is that a love potion that by fasting, they're going to lose Musson, but they're going to see it. So I they don't do it. But by stopping them, they held off us. Just anybody. You're probably sleeping eight hours out of. Slainte. Knock them off, my son, slow, gradual, build up over your weeks and be doing Atheel asking. I want a bus. I'm actually allowed in. Yes. Yes. Some people say it's an. Dizziness, headaches, dehydration like symptoms in the first two days of fasting. Again, your body takes time to adapt to any kind of nutrition programs. Fasting is not the maximum. I see us in just asking, is it? No one's had any scandals. It last longer than days.   [00:28:26] I see. Yeah, I think that. And it can vary, as you're saying, individual to individual.   [00:28:30] Your book does a good job of kind of covering some of those myths and things like that that, you know, and and actual real attributes. You have a section where you talk about before you start fasting about kind of debunking some myths. I'm curious when you talk about how to break your fast. Did you personally weigh into that? Did you research things when you advised. This is a big thing for a lot of, you know, experienced fasters is what to do as you're breaking a fast because the body does not receive all things as equal. And it can kind of alleviate symptoms that were happening during fasting or fight them. Can you speak to a little bit to the section and how you researched for it and why you included the information you included in how to break your fast?   [00:29:21] Right. So I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is assuming that fasting is just skipping a couple of meals and then you're not done. You know, everything. It's like a natural way. All of a sudden you're in a day. But, yes, fasting does make a limited impact. And the. But there's a lot more science to it. You know, it's not just skipping. There's a lot of concern. But before you add up your phosphine, maximize the radius and make it expedients. So when it comes to breaking your fast, I did a lot of research online on Google. I just go on really. I have a couple of subscriptions to some research magazines. So that gives me the latest information on my source. To be honest. So CBI, the government, is my secret medical publication when it student and fasting are being. Through these sources, I learned that when you do when you bust, there's a lot more to lose. Internally, you know why? No. There's a bunch of. That might be bestowed on smoothen busting. One example is when you're fasting your kidney stone to expel a lot. But what you should do is add it is a half of salt. I know Fosdick. And this is gonna keep thousands. And I did. Well, it's a. Another thing you could do before your fasting is if a lot of people say it's on the banks, you are in the stinky. They could eat a high fiber meal before they stop that you your last meal, before you start your boss could a hypermedia puts some vegetables or anything that provides high dose security. And we'll keep you. And you're going to notice less cravings and fangs the next day. No. I could write another one on this if I could be honest. But there's a ton of records that you should I could employ more than your fasting experience on the head.   [00:31:26] But, you know, when you talk about breaking your fast, you have a part where you talk about never mixing carbs and fats when you break your fast food and insulin. And you kind of speak to that. You have this very it's it's a very, you know, exclamatory, you know, point in the book where you talk about how out antithetical that is to the fast, sir.   [00:31:49] Yes. So when it comes to eating, cooking on dogs and cats together, this is will be another. You are learning that from science, that eating dogs and facts together, especially when you break the fast. What it does is it promotes fat. You see, what happens is when you haven't eaten for a long period of time and you're fasting, your insulin levels are a lot more sensitive. But even having a small line of food is going to lead a larger insulin response. Now, high insulin promotes fat storage. When you are in your fasting, your body's fight or flight state. Right. So your titles like a higher stress threshold and your cortisol levels, which is that stressful one is really high. Now, insulin last high. Cortisol is a terrible disaster for fat storage. But what you want to do is get your cortisol levels down a little bit, get your insulin levels up to allow your. Right. Right. And why do you think jobs and that were used to prop it up? And you have. That's OK. Well, that's still the Jews.   [00:32:58] And because anything that's among those stats. And that's one reason why you. Dobbs on facts. But why do you think dogs and cats together as a Lou? Yeah, OK, I'm wondering.   [00:33:14] I want to kind of switch gears really quickly and get into I know that you are having kind of a reboot of the muscle manual mag. I want to talk about what we can expect your audience can expect from that. And do you have any information on your Web site from Muscle Manual? The online magazine. Do you do you cross pollinate with the your fasting information? You know, can people access the book on their. And also, do you share information about fasting on there or is it solely dedicated to health and fitness, excluding fasting?   [00:33:53] I know the frosting is definitely one of the things you cover on the magazines from time to time, we give it just as much importance as we do with any other scientifically engrained nutrition technique.   [00:34:05] So from time to time, you.   [00:34:07] As us now, not a single doctor is on it exclusively, but it will be on the massive market. When it comes to what people can expect with this magazine, it's going to be 20 pages of pitch information when it comes to training, nutrition, lifestyle, motivation and athletes sharing their experience on an average in. Are some of the big names for the upcoming issues?   [00:34:37] I don't know how much of this I should be talking about, but one of the big names we have, a strange scene is alleging something. The easy time was stolen. One of the only people on this panel, and he's really a legend, and he was kind enough to do a quick interview.   [00:34:56] And so Tomaso Manual magazine again off the list of the magazine issue. Yeah. Bhima with the goal of eating again. Is that you? Ice on ice and. And other groups lost along with a bunch of other techniques. I know you're just imagining there are a lot of people in the United States where I'm located right now and the health and nutrition enterprises and as well as them in fasting, it's all been kind of conglomerated into specific dietary regimens like you're doing at a focus on body building and things of that nature. But there is frequently like a cross platform dialog about, say, Vegan diets or paleo and fasting and body building. And, you know, everybody's got their own secret formula as to what's going to achieve what and things like that. Will your will the new site also explore different areas like that with different diets? Are those things spoken about or is it all mainly under the lens of bodybuilding? And also, do you look at any of the female athletes out there or is it mainly under the purview of the like the male gender?   [00:36:09] Oh, no. We have no restriction that such scholar female athletes in the past. In fact, one of our most successful magazine issues was with Oksana Grishin, on the other hand. She's a nine misselling figure. So does that. Oh, we don't limit ourselves on any kind of end times. Well, I wouldn't hit on a bodybuilding focused magazine model on chair.   [00:36:31] Yes. And it just so happens that a lot of bodybuilders. When it comes to on best and. We don't have a lot of competitions in this, you know, films or the buildings and in sickness, you have credible names. Athletes who are it's hard to explain. But a book by a magazine called A Bodybuilder is ideal. You know, as a. On by bus, by style, on general.   [00:37:09] OK. Interesting. I'm wondering where how do you how are you going to curate it moving forward? How will you decide the direction in which the magazine's headed after the kind of reboot? Do you have plans for the next one to three years? And if so, has it changed with the wake of the pandemic? Has any of that narrative kind of taken change with this kind of global re conversation and meditation that everyone, it seems, on Earth has had with nutrition and health and fitness and all of those things?   [00:37:41] To be honest. There's no change in our business model or. You think is in being. Oh, we're following the same business model as this all, which is that we have a Web site and every month we're going to publish a magazine and she walk free. I have the next YODO. So planned out this act of this pandemic hasn't shown us any setbacks other than a few time delays. But people are also consuming more content because of the pandemic, citing it's a very quick. And he launched this kind of.   [00:38:11] Yeah, absolutely. I want to turn now to one of my more favorite aspects about your bio and profile, which is your family's chocolate company, Lush Chocolates. I am. And I want to get into your third generation chocolatier, which is ironic for someone is, you know, not maybe ironic anymore, but back in the days. Unorthodox. Yeah. And I love that. And I think that there's actually been a huge change in the sweets industry, you know, and for a lot of reason, I'm wondering what you can tell us about what does it mean anymore to be a third generation chocolatier? Have things changed? Are there sugar free chocolates? Is there, you know, Monck fruit chocolates? Is there Vegan chocolates? Have you kept the same age old recipes? How is all that looked for you?   [00:39:00] Right. So the chocolate business is definitely is something unique. So the story behind it was that my grandmother was a dessert chef years and she used to supply his arms to some of the biggest restaurants and caterers in Mumbai. So I kind of. But she got those who just stuck us with chocolates and aches and had this decided to having an office every evening. I grew up eating a lot of chocolate. And what happened was at one of my events, we had this event in college where every college under the snoots and stuff. But I had fitness business there and I said, I want to promote my food drink business or move my magazine. So I got a one. Something brought attention by Stone in my home state by. So I asked my grandmother she would use some of her talents to make use healthy chocolates that will attract customers. And she did. And it was a big hit. So I decided that maybe this is something I should look into because my mom's been doing it on me. Yes. And there's definitely a market for a healthier direction. Wish chocolates and desserts. So what I did was I took the family, business and family. And now what we do is it'll be only two individuals Slaínte just it and the husband of Job Bowl while managing that way. So it's it's an entire range of products. We do veto sugar shop stuff. So we turn it on us. Yeah. Yeah. We do chocolates which are high in. Oh I got the anti-tax I in sibo much higher in antioxidants. So if you look at our website, almost Omine ingredients are going to find much of a healthy Boxey or even undergoing anything that's good for your health. I'm unsure, but it's primarily a B2B business. We do a large audience of eating weddings on a special occasion. But Betaworks, OK? Individuals, actually US democracy actually go to the IMF and find something you are looking for. We do also call it as a Bustamonte. Fantastic. He's long a question about the chocolate industry. Yes, there is a lot of interest in healthy chocolate help, especially with people becoming more and more upbeat about the health benefits. And I think we're going to see a trend retrofitting stock and dockett shock and milk. Chocolate is going to eventually be so exclusively for children. But the health benefits are all going to come from the doctor shop unless the sugar. And the less milk you you're going to get much higher yield signals. And like, you know, doctors are recommending declines of chocolate undies or at least once a week for adequate and adequate antioxidants to keep a hot.   [00:41:54] Yeah, absolutely. I concur. I think that's where the trends are headed and it seems to already be well on its way, at least in the United States. I want to turn now to our rapid fire questions. We have a lot of people that write in with questions that they'd love to ask health and fitness experts and nutritional coaches like yourself. And I want to get into with fasting. People are wondering what the number one misconception that your clients are, people you run into have about fasting.   [00:42:23] I think the biggest ordeal that my clients have about when it comes to fasting is really just getting over the fact that you have two stops skipping meals and breaking all of these habits that you have of eating a heavy breakfast.   [00:42:35] And I'm not skipping meals where you just condition who believe these old times and old lifestyles and old science. You know, science has proven that breakfast is actually an. Without Jack, you can bet opens up, but the biggest difficulty I have isn't just on mixing my time. It's costing, you know, give it a shot. Don't worry about all. Your body is going to survive. Do it, guy.   [00:43:01] I went like this without, you know, being a couple of hours without, you know. Yeah, absolutely. What do you think the the easiest thing about fasting has been for your clients who have tried it? Have there been any kind of things that they didn't realize we're going to be easier than they kind of thought?   [00:43:23] I think a lot of people always say to me how difficult, how how to deal with the hunger pains, and then once they get into it, they realize that it's certainly not that hard to control young guys to keep us busy. And you have the right to antibiotics and a couple of beverages. One of them is lying in water. That's going to keep your acidity low. Another is a black a black Gosta. You have to eat something to just get some instinct into your mouth who, if you can satisfy, satisfied and not get you anything. Thanks. So there are a bunch of different things that you do to make fasting a smooth experience for you, like I've discussed.   [00:44:02] I'm sorry. Just give me a second. I want to get to my thoughts and tie this all in together really nicely. Yes. Can you repeat the question once more?   [00:44:10] I'm wondering what some of the easier things that people hadn't anticipated would be, you know, in the benefits of fasting or even just the easiest thing is how easy it is to really control your high hunger and hollering, please, fasting wrinkle, because a lot of people just struggle with getting into a 16 hour fast because it's kind of a big change initiative began by breaking that down.   [00:44:33] What? Well, us. And then every week asking them to fast for one hour more density of protein, just eating them 16 hours. They realize that with that I lose with all offie with lime. I'm locked out of these beverages that are allowed during your fasting if outsourcing is not stopping your sentence. It does not mean you're going to say yes and you get. That's the biggest problem that people associate Austin with starvation.   [00:45:01] Yeah, agreed, and I think that there is a lot of lack of information and the lack of history with it. Right. A lot of people don't have a history with it. The body is an incredible learning machine. So I think it adapts to more than we recognize because we don't make it to a depth that much anymore. I'm wondering, everyone, we have had a lot of people write in and ask for you. What is the number one benefit of fasting for yourself and for your clients?   [00:45:30] Personally, I noticed my energy levels on our productivity improvement lock mind, that's the main benefit that I got equal. Because that's all much easier get just mix might be and how much time it saves me during my working hours and eating, preparing my meals and all of those things, you know. So that's really the biggest benefit that I got. Another thing that I look by is antiaging. And maximizing the hormones like human growth hormone is something that's involved in fasting. And the longer you force, the higher the level of. Six, eight.   [00:46:01] Now, the more growth hormone you have, the more anti aging benefits are get inside. Growth hormone is also something that a lot of small celebrities are not. Get themselves together. And you can just get some. So my top defense minister, Austin, would be increased productivity. And just looking at ceiling by slope that they actually get lights.   [00:46:23] Excellent.   [00:46:24] Well, Vinay, we are out of time, but I wanted to say thank you so much for taking the time today and speaking with us from all the way across the world and giving us all of your information about fasting and all of your expertize.   [00:46:38] Thank you for having me. A pleasure to speak to you.   [00:46:40] Absolutely. For everyone listening, we've been speaking with Vinay Bhambwani. And you can find out more. He's a fitness entrepreneur, our nutrition expert and the founder of the fitness magazine to find out more about his book, his magazine, everything online at W w w dot to muscle manual mag, dot com. And until we speak again next time, thank you for giving us your time. And this is a reminder to stay safe, eat well when you do eat and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am SO EXCITED to be speaking with Jane Valez-Mitchell. Jane is the founder/editor of JaneUnChained News, a non-profit, social media news network reporting on animal rights, veganism, health and climate change. With more than 70 volunteer contributors around the world, JaneUnChained’s videos are seen by millions. JaneUnChained.com's daily vegan cooking show via facebook.com/JaneVelezMitchell features some of the best vegan chefs in the world. This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with social media journalist, activists and prolific author Jane Velez Mitchell. Key points addressed where Jane's endeavors with her nonprofit social media news site, an educational platform called Jane Unchained dot com. We also discussed her documentary titled Countdown to Year Zero and how its narrative uniquely links animal agriculture to climate change and action items one can take to participate in the cessation of the ecological crisis the world is facing. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Jane Velez Mitchell. [00:00:43] My name is Patricia Kathleen. And this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen Dot, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:40] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Jane Velez Mitchell. Jane is a social media journalist, activist and author. [00:01:49] You can find out more regarding everything that she does, as well as what we speak about today on her Web site. Jane, unchain dot com. That is J and E, you n c h h i n e d dot com. Welcome, Jane. [00:02:03] Thank you for having me, Patricia. [00:02:04] Absolutely. I'm excited to unpack everything that you're doing and have done with your company, your documentary and all of your other endeavors for those of you that are new to the podcast. I will proffer up a bio on Jane to give everyone a good foundation. But prior to doing that, a quick trajectory of the line of inquiry in which this podcast will be based. Today, we will first ask Jane to briefly describe her academic and professional background that brought her to her current day endeavors. Then I want to turn to unpacking. Jane, unchain dot com. It's a news and begin animal rights Web site. I'm going to get into questions of curation, obviously, when it was launched, logistics around the launch partnership, sponsorships, things of that nature. And then I'll turn to unpacking the documentary Countdown to Year Zero, in which she directed all of the endeavors within that. And some of the response that the audiences have had with that will then turn towards our rapid fire questions. These are questions we've taken from you, our audience, who has written in and asked us to ask experts such as Jane about the various endeavors and areas of expertize that she can answer best. [00:03:14] And we'll wrap everything up with advice that Jane has for the future of Vegan warriors, as well as some of her predictions as to where certain industries in the Vegan world are headed. As promised, a quick bio on Jane. Jane Velez Mitchell is the founder and editor of Jane and Jane News, a nonprofit social media news network reporting on animal rights, veganism, health and climate change. With more than 70 volunteer contributors around the world, Jane and Chanes videos are seen by millions. Jane and Jane, dot coms daily Vegan cooking show via Facebook dot com. Jane Velez Mitchell features some of the best Vegan chefs in the world. Jane Unchained has launched a new daily New Day, New Chef, a popular Vegan cooking series streaming on Amazon Prime and public television stations around the nation. She's documentary Countdown to Year Zero now on Amazon Prime. It lays out the animal agriculture's leading role in climate change and how we must transition to plant based culture or face ecological apocalypse. It won best documentary feature at the Studio City Film Festival and Jane won for Best Director documentary feature at the Culver City Film Festival. Jane Unchained has also partnered with software developer artist Wave to create plant based Nabor dot com, which is a beta testing set to become an AP later in 2020. [00:04:41] This AVP, the app, will connect vegan's with the other vegans in their community and encourage the vegan economy. We Jane is has one for Genesis Award commendations for from the Humane Society of the United States for reporting on animal issues. Veggie News named Velez Mitchell. Media Maven of the Year in 2010. For six years, she hosted her own show on HLN. HLN, CNN Headline News, where she ran weekly segments on animal issues. Previously, she was a news anchor and reporter at Cakehole TV in Los Angeles and WCB s TV in New York. Her first documentary, Anita Velez Dancing through Life, won a Graciella to work in Two Thousand and one. She's the author of four books, including two New York Times best sellers, and she is active in the LGBTQ community and lives in Los Angeles with her five rescues for dogs and cats. So, Jane, I am so excited to kind of unpack everything that you're doing currently and really climb through some of your projects, possibly not all of them, because you're too prolific. But before we get to that, I'm hoping you can draw a narrative of your early academic and professional life that led you to launching Jane. And tain't. [00:06:03] Well, I grew up in midtown Manhattan, directly across the street from Carnegie Hall. And my mom was from Puerto Rico, from the island of Vieques, which is part of the Puerto Rican Commonwealth. My dad was Irish American. He was an advertising executive straight out of madmen with the pipe rack in the hat and the whole outfit. And he had a ad agency on Madison Avenue. So he was truly a mad man. And they met my mother was the last of the board bills. They were both born in 1916. And my mother formed a successful  dance troupe when she came to New York from Puerto Rico called Anita Velez Dancers. They danced all around the hotels of the Caribbean, North America. And when she met my dad, because her her agent was my dad's best friend, Charles Conaway, who happened to be Jeff Conaway's dad. The the actor. Anyway, they met. They hit it off. They love to dance. They would stop the show. It was how they put it. When they started dancing, everybody else just formed a circle and watched them dance. And they were married and growing up. I actually thought I was vegetarian because when my mom was a child, she had a pet pig. She thought she had a pet pig. She thought she had a companion the way we have dogs and cats. But it turned out the pig was a food pig and was slaughtered. And my mother fainted when she came home from school and saw the carcass and she shunned meat from that point on. My dad was very meat centric when he met my mother. Corned beef and cabbage, etc.. But he changed. So we were pretty much a Pescatarian household growing up. So I went to various schools in New York. My mom wanted me to be a performer in some way, shape or form. But she was a nice stage mom. She wasn't one of those meanies. And I graduated from Rudolf Steiner, which is small private school, went to New York University, majored in broadcast journalism because I had been on television a couple of times. I'm pretty much the same person I was back then. If you look at my high school yearbook picture, it's all about animal rights and protesting. And so I have been interviewed a couple of times. And even though my initial desire was to be a syndicated columnist, I just switched it out to broadcast journalism. When I was looking at the form and said broadcast journalism, I said, OK, I'll do that. And I graduated from NYU. My first job was in Fort Myers, Florida, as a reporter anchor, a place I still love to this day. And in fact, I've gone back there to protest because a nearby county, Hendry County, Florida, had decided they wanted to become the bio farming capital of the world, which means breeding and accepting monkeys from foreign countries for laboratory experimentation. We didn't put it entirely out of business, but I think their idea of becoming the bio farming capital went out the window because we had protests, court fights, challenges. We went to town and just as a little aside, they called us radical animal rights activists. And the funny part was I was staying with this lovely lady, Madeleine Duran, an old Fort Myers right near the Thomas Edison Summer Home Museum. [00:09:20] She's in her 80s. Whereas tennis shoes and actually wears a little hat with a little orange on it. So when we bought it, brought everybody, the media came out and that the commissioners were saying these were radical animal rights activists and about 40 old ladies in tennis shoes showed up from Fort Myers. I pointed to the to the senior citizens and I said, here are your radical animal rights activists, all in your homeowners from Fort Myers, Florida, who love animals. Anyway, then I went and worked in Minneapolis for a couple of years, and I worked in Philadelphia for a year and a half at WCAU. Then I got a job in New York, which was my hometown, right down the block or up the block from where I grew up. I grew up on fifty seventh and seventh, and the CBS Broadcast Center is fifty seventh between 10th and 11th. So I literally had come back home. [00:10:10] That was my goal. Worked there for eight years. I was exhausted. I was the weekend anchor and a weekday reporter and you just literally go from one crime scene to the next disaster. And after about eight years of that, I was like, I want out. Friend of mine had gotten a job at Cakehole TV, which was owned by the Disney Studios. They had taken it over and they were hiring all the staff at once and they needed an anchor. They suggested me I got the job and I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I moved out here to L.A., which was Oh Way is my favorite place. [00:10:42] I had been to L.A. a couple of times prior with my parents once when I was 13. And I remember we had a great time and parents didn't argue with Sunny. I like this place is great. And then I had been also out to L.A. when I was in college to visit my best friend who had moved to L.A. She took me to the beach and honest to God. We sat on the beach at a spot where I look back and I said, I can't believe people get to live on the beach. And guess what? That's exactly just by total accident where I live today. So I always felt like my heart was in L.A. and when I got the job at Cakehole and we were at the Paramount Studios and I had a great parking lot, I had a parking spot on the Paramount Studios, which is. You know, everybody wants a great spot. A parking spot, the Paramount Studios. Honestly, it was it was to this day, I would say the most fun job I've ever had. It was great. You've got you'd walk to work and you'd see people dressed as Star Trek. Captains walking in the other direction. So after about eight years of that excuse me, 12 years, I was 12 years at cow and then they had imagined change. [00:11:52] I was no longer an anchor. I said, OK, I'll just wait out my contract. And basically, after five minutes, a case CBS. Harvey Levin, who is now the head of TMZ, had started a show prior to that called Celebrity Justice. And he was a good friend of mine. We used to go karaoke ing together. [00:12:12] That was our thing when he was a reporter at CBS that I was in a great cake. And so he says, hey, I'm starting to show celebrity justice. You want you, would you? I'm looking for reporters and I can't find any. Or something like that. I said, What about me? You said you'd be interested. Heck, yes. Everybody warned me against it. Like it's a tabloid show. You'll laugh. It'll last 13 weeks. Then you'll never get hired again because you're gonna be tabloid. I said, you know what? Life short. Harvey's the smartest guy I know. If he thinks it's a good idea, I'm going to take a shot. Suffice it to say, it lasted. [00:12:49] About, oh, gosh, three or four years, I guess. Anyway, I ended up covering the Michael Jackson trial in Santa Maria, California. It was the biggest global trial of that particular time period right up there with some of the other biggies that we all know. The whole world was there. I was on Larry King Live the night of the arraignment, the night of the verdict. I was on Nancy Grace pretty much every night as the reporter. Then that that show wrapped the trial, wrapped the show wrapped. And I got asked to fill in for Nancy Grace on HLN, which I did for a while. [00:13:27] And then. [00:13:29] What happened was, I believe I was told that Glenn Beck, who was the host of prior to Nancy, stormed off the set or had a hissy fit of some sort and marched out you don't do on TV if you want to come back. They wanted to replace him quickly. They call me up and they said, Would you like a show? I said, yes. I was sitting right here drinking a cup of coffee, wondering what am I gonna do with the rest of my life? I wasn't free, Dad. I was just like, what's next? [00:13:55] I like to let the journey of life take me, take me here, there and everywhere, like Niagara Falls anyway. I said, yes, I'd like a job. They said, OK, we'll call it ISSUES with Jane Velez-Mitchell. I said, great, because I got a lot of issues and I'm a recovering alcoholic. Twenty five years sober. I'm gay. I'm a Vegan. Perhaps the most controversial of all. Not anymore. Anyway, when I got the job, I literally they said, OK, do the show today from L.A. and come to New York. It was Friday this weekend. That's exactly what I did. Once again, the job was two blocks from where I grew up. Fifty seven and seven. This was Columbus Circle. So I moved right back in with my mother, who had a huge rent controlled apartment right across from Carnegie Hall. So I went back to my old bedroom and I was there for seven years, six years on the show. And that was that was great. It was a gift. And what I did when I would ask, see, I started to do animal rights news at Celebrity Justice. Cut me off when you think I've said enough because I could go on all day. [00:15:03] Starting with the issue on HLN, CNN. I thought that that was when you started bringing in the focus on the animal rights. You started at Celebrity Justice. [00:15:13] Oh, yeah, I did start at Celebrity Justice. What happened was I don't know if you've ever seen the show TMZ, but Harvey stands in the front and goes that other than all the producers have to come up with ideas or whatever, it was exactly like that. He got the idea because that's what we used to do. It got ungodly hour of like 7:00 a.m. ET Dale when I lived in Venice. Do the math. It was up early and so we'd have to have a couple of story ideas and he would go, where's the celebrity? Where's the justice? And it was stressful. So all of a sudden I went bingo, because I was an animal rights activist. At that point I was Vegan I thought I go to these great PETA galas. I love Peta. I'm going to call PETA up. They know all the celebrities. I started work with the guy, PETA, and he would get celebrities who would normally run in the other direction from us because I literally chase celebrities down the street with my own little camera and. And the publicist, by the way, this is not an ankle. This is not a police monitoring device. This is my exercise, my arm exercise anyway. Well, when we'd call, the publicist would just click what celebrity? So it was very hard to get celebrities to participate in any way, shape or form. But these celebrities who cared about animal issues were so passionate about their animal issues, they would literally push their publicist aside and talk to me about whatever their passion was. I even interviewed Robert Redford about his passion for saving the whales from the horrors of military sonar. Imagine. Hollywood royalty speaking to moi, who is with a tabloid show. But that's how much he's a great guy. Wow, what a nice person. That's how much these celebrities cared about their animal issues. So I was doing that. That's how we got a couple of Genesis awards. Then when I got the job at CNN Headline News, I said, would you mind if I did a little animal segment once a week, like really innocently because I am innocent. And they said we don't we don't see a problem with that. [00:17:10] Well, maybe this was going to be pet adoptions. I did hardcore animal rights for six years every Friday. And we also introduced some of the of the. But the budding Vegan entrepreneurs like Josh Tetrick, who had just started just Mayo, and we put him on the air and a lot of these people were able to use their segment, take that copy of that segment on CNN Headline News and go out and pitch their projects. So I felt very blessed. I will always think CNN for allowing me to do that. They were true to their word. They let me do it. They never stopped me. And then after I left, I had a good run and the show wrapped up. And then I moved on to create a nonprofit that focus exclusively on animal rights and veganism. [00:17:59] And is this Jane and Jane dot.com that we're speaking about now? [00:18:04] It is indeed. So this is an interesting platform. [00:18:07] It's done what's, I think, a most latter day survival platforms do. You've got a lot of news and you've got a lot of resources. And I'm wondering, I first want to talk about how you carried it. What is the editing process? Do you have a team of people? How do you decide which news makes it on to Jane Unchained? What do you decide gets featured? How is all of that done? [00:18:31] Well, I'll tell you the genesis of it. As after I wrapped the show and I was in New York, I said, oh, I can go to protest because I was a journalist for my whole life, with the exception of a few years where I wasn't fully employed, but I was still working freelance. You can't really go and participate in protests. So actually, my girlfriend at the time was still a dear friend, Donna said. Yeah. Jane, your unshaved. You can go to protest. You can protest. And I was like, Yeah, Jane, Jane. It just had a ring to it. We laughed about it. I remember were walking down 9th Avenue and we were laughing, get Jada Jade and. So I started going to protests immediately, I noticed there was a missing component, A. It was freezing out at the time. People are rushing to get indoors, so they're not really stopping to study it. B, people are shivering and doing all these incredible things, but they're not documenting what they're doing. Remember, this is too late, 2014, 2015. So really, the idea of documenting everything hadn't become ubiquitous. And so I said, OK, here's my niche, because actually an executive at their old cable channel had said, you're obviously passionate about animals. You need to focus on that exclusively. And I said, OK. Good advice, because I always ask people for advice when I'm about to go on the next leg of my life adventure. And so I said, OK, now I found my niche, that little segment that I did every Friday. I can do it all the time. And I can I. They gave me my social media, which was very nice of them. I started putting it on Facebook. I started putting it on Twitter. And soon enough I realized there's so much happening here that I can't do it alone. And it gradually evolved into a Facebook life, which means you don't have to edit for hours and hours and hours. You can just do what I was always a live reporter or host. And we also then decided to expand it. And now we have 70 contributors around the world going live at all sorts of events, protests, VegFest conferences. And we also now have anchors who do their own shows on Facebook. And so we have animals in the law, which is Krista Krantz, a Vegan super lawyer. She's been voter super lawyer. She's Vegan from birth based in Florida. We have Lisa Carlyn who interviews doctors who are Vegan nutritionists and doctors. We had some of the top doctors. We have Lindsay Baker, who does animal rescue stories. We have Chef Babbette who run stuff I eat here in Inglewood. She's an incredible vegan chef, entrepreneur. I don't want to leave anybody out, but we would be here for an hour listening. Everybody is involved. We've got a great team of people, all of whom are working for free. This is a nonprofit and otherwise known as a money pit. I said people used to ask me before I became an OB. [00:21:27] How are you going to monetize it? I was like, oh, how did they monetize the Underground Railroad? [00:21:33] Then they would just look at me and turn on their heels and walk away because they couldn't handle it in our society. People don't even understand if you're doing something that's not motivated to make money unless it's a nonprofit. I realize that I was like, why does everybody keep asking me for my angle? I don't have I have an angle. Yeah. Save the world from extinction. But apparently that's not good enough. So I decided to make it a nonprofit, and I'm really glad I did. Because people need clarity on what? On what's what it's all about. And also, we have to raise funds to do this. This is not it's certainly cheaper than running one of those other networks, but it's not 100 percent cost zero. There's a lot of costs involved. [00:22:16] Yeah, I think it's interesting. I do think it's some of the areas you've touched upon, too. And there's just such an incredible void. [00:22:24] And speaking to, for instance, the show that you have where she's speaking with Vegan doctors, you know, I've had a ton of guests on. And one of the areas that longstanding vegans will still talk about are, you know, finding a pediatrician or an O'Bagy y and it's comfortable with one being Vegan. You know, there's this and just this. It almost seems on real like a surreal moment of lack of information with professionals that we ascribe to health, such as M.D. when it comes to diet and the Vegan nature of health and things like that, or the health nature of veganism. So. And I think those are crucial points to have and need to be continued on. What is the future of it? What is the future of Jane and Jane? What is the next one to three years, five years look like? [00:23:09] Well, we're constantly pivoting and you never know what's good news or bad news. So, for example, when the quarantine happened and we had all these people all the time going live at Cubes of Truth where they hold up the signs and the monitors showing animal abuse at VegFest at all these things that were not happening. So immediately I said, oh, well, I saw within one week all of our content had dried up because except for lunch break life lunch break, like we do every single day since we started it at the advent of Facebook, like we've never missed a day. I'm talking Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year's, New Year's Eve, Fourth of July, Election Day. We never miss a day. Kind of like the post office. Ale's sleet. Snow will not stop us from our appointed rounds. And post office isn't that bad. Don't, don't don't knock the post office. We need that post office them to vote. And so that we still have going and we still continue to do. It's going to happen today. Just happened already. It's 130 here. It's twelve, thirty p.m. Pacific every single day on Facebook. Dot com slash. Jane Velez-Mitchell. So where we have almost nine hundred thousand followers so. I thought about it and I thought, well, cable news networks have anchors, right? That's what they have, a slate of anchors who talk. Let's do the same thing. We've got all these great people who are super articulate and talented. So we just reached out and sure enough, we got everybody stream yard, which is a great platform to go live on. And next thing you know well, Jed's a millionaire. You know, everybody was doing their own shows and having a great time doing it. Now, you asked a little bit about curation and editing. We are not investigative journalists. And we do have a code of conduct. Anybody can read it. You can go to Jane and Jane dot com. By the way, please sign up, get our biweekly newsletter. We are not in a position to be investigative journalists because when you're alive, look. Investigative journalism obviously takes months, even years, sometimes many years. So we're more appealing to the consumer. We do not. When you're live, you don't have an opportunity to vent and do all the things, the lawyerly things that would normally be required for an investigative story. So I tell everybody. Don't pretend to be Woodward and Bernstein, OK? We don't need that. What we do need is bringing people to these events and being their eyes and ears. So if there's a pig vigil, for example, which we go to regularly, and they still are happening with social distancing now in downtown L.A., right near downtown L.A., where it's heartbreaking to see these baby pigs six months old going into the slaughterhouse and we go wiv and we bring people there. We're not playing Woodward and Bernstein trying to make allegations of specific against any company. This is happening at slaughterhouses around the world. It's a global tragedy. What we do is try to be the eyes and ears of a consumer who might be about to pick up that package of bacon. And they see that and they go, wow, that that's really horrible. I don't want to be a part of that. I consider myself a kind person. I consider myself a loving person. I'm going to make a different choice. So we really are appealing to consumers more than anybody else. Everything we're talking about is a consumer issue. If consumers stopped eating these products, dead animals and the breast milk of cows and the menstrual period of chickens, in one week, our entire society would transform. We would stop accelerating climate change. If nobody ate animals, we'd stop destroying the rainforest. That means we'd stop destroying the habitat of wild animals. That means we'd stop participating in wildlife extinction. And because animals eat so much more than they produces food. More than 70 percent of the soy produced in America, we'd stop contributing to human world hunger. We'd stop contributing to human diseases like heart disease like that prior to Cauvin, kill one out of every four Americans and is still killing plenty of Americans, except some of them are also dying from Kolbert or and or Koban. So for all these reasons, if we just took the power back with our food choices, we could change the world. So that's why we talk to the consumers. Everything we talk about meat, dairy, pharmaceuticals is a consumer issue. [00:27:58] Yeah, the purse strings hold the power. Right. And some of the change. It kind of leads us into unpacking the documentary Countdown to Year Zero. [00:28:07] I will tell you as a viewer and someone who grew up in the documentary film industry and I was the most moving part for me was maybe 15 minutes in. Then you've got Dr. Salish, Rao Rayle. He said very simply in a way that I think only he can. He said, you don't try to change the corrupt current culture. You build a better one. And you bring people over to it. You know, it was then I am butchering it. That's not a direct quote. But this concept of and I really appreciate people that set up frameworks and this concept of stop not trying to fix the current broken structure, but rather developing a new format in which people can envision belonging and want to belong. Because, you know, if you can get through this life, another quote that someone on your show said, if you can get through this life, you know, living well, eating well and not hurting anyone with the same quality, why wouldn't you? You know, this concept of just constantly perpetuating something because you were born under parents that didn't know better. I mean, all of these weird forms of hereditary nature and things like that being dispelled all at once. And what I like about the documentary is that it has a very distinctly different voice than all of the really mass major heavy hitter ones out there. And I want to get into how you decided that you were going to come at that, because you have things like conspiracy, what the health, all of these, you know, game changers, big ones that came out. But you took a very much a more microscopic view with this documentary. You kind of developed the entire ethos around, you know, the attachment between veganism and the future of our planet. And and I think a lot of other documentaries had that muddled into their narrative. But they really didn't pass it all out as clearly as you did. What made you decide that you were going to take that direct narrative or did it unfold as you were filming? [00:30:11] Well, we didn't really start out to make a documentary. I had made one small documentary before about my mother, Anita Velez, dancing through life because she had thousands of incredible photos of her and her dance troupe back in the heyday and the last days of vaudeville. And there were just all Averitt costumes. [00:30:33] You could you couldn't you couldn't miss a documentary like that up, especially with my mother, who was incredible character and very ahead of her time, she was doing yoga. Ortiz, she was the first hyphenate. She kept her name and added my father's name. She was Anita Velez Mitchell. [00:30:47] And that's why I added my mother's name to my name. I was born Jane Mitchell. But in tribute to her and also to fully express who I am, I use my mom's name as well. And so I wasn't really thinking about making a documentary. What happened was somebody asked me, well, what happened? Was I. Met, talked around. I was at the rowdy girl's sanctuary in Texas at a one of these VegFest and. This guy gets on the stage and it was a big, big grassy area. So not that many people were paying attention and there were all a bunch of food booths back there. And so I was sort of like by myself alone with my live camera getting the next speaker. And what he said just blew my mind. And I said, this is what I've been waiting to hear my whole life. He said very matter of factly, we are going to create a Vegan world and we're gonna do it by twenty, twenty six. You know, you have to have a deadline to get it accomplished. We know why we have to do it. All we need to find out is how we do it. And we I'm a systems analyst and I'm an engineer and we have methodologies for doing that. And that's how we put a man on the moon. And that's how we increased Internet speeds so rapidly. And that's how the Internet went, something when we all got our first computers. Those little weird things that look like spaceships, we didn't know how to use them. And now can we live without this for four minutes without panicking? Rapid social change can and does occur. And so he was actually instrumental in the development of the rapid acceleration of Internet speeds. I hear this guy. I'm going. He's a genius. I don't say that about very many people. I do not have a bumper sticker on the back of my car. This is my two. I will mix's are Mensa members. They are very smart, though. But this guy is a seriously. He's a genius. And so I was just taken with this idea. It's like I remember reading about the women who stop the troubles in Northern Ireland, who some trial was shot on a grassy front yard and some woman came out and said, enough, we are going to end the troubles. And, of course, all the men her. Guess what, they ended up doing it and winning a Nobel Prize. And they had said, you can never achieve something unless you can express what you want. If you can't even express what you want to achieve. How the heck are you going to achieve it? So when he said that flat out, we're gonna create a bigger world, we're gonna do it by twenty, twenty six. I was totally taken with him. So I got involved in his campaign. Climate Healer's Dawg and Vegan World. Twenty, twenty six. And then he sent out an e-mail. It said, I'm going to Costa Rica. I'm going to look at a former cattle ranch that has been reforested and we're gonna show whoever comes along. How reforesting can occur very rapidly, because that's part of what needs to happen when we eliminate animal agriculture that's eliminating most of the farmland. It's only like a fraction that's actually growing food that we eat like vegetables. It's mostly food that's fed to farm animals. So we get to reforest all that foreign land. Then that begins to sequester carbon. That will begin to reduce the temperature back to maybe 200 years ago. And we as a species will survive. Trees sequester carbon, they absorb carbon. That carbon makes the earth harder. The world's harder. So I decided to go down there with my partner at the time, Donna. We said, let's go. Let's hurry up. And then somebody who I work with very closely said, why don't you take? Because I have. I have usually issued 90 percent of stuff, but I do have two good cameras. So once you take a good camera with you and shoot some of it. So, of course, having the attic mind, I can't shoot a little bit. You know, I've got to always shoot everything. So I had my camera in their face the whole time and he was so gracious about it. It's just like nothing ruffles. And I'm shooting the people arriving at the airport and the rioting and everything, he said. Anyway, at the end of it, we actually made a like a new constitution, we created a declaration for the Vegan world and what needs to happen. And there were just, interestingly enough, twelve of us. So it was kind of like this mystical kind of thing, like here we are together and I travel at twelve of us, creating like a constitution for a new world so that the planet can survive. It felt very heavy. And I got all the debating about the Constitution or the declaration. And so when I got back, I was like, what do I do with all this? Then I went to North Carolina to speak at the Hilton Head VegFest. And that was at the time, way before. This is a couple of years, several years ago, where, you know, VegFest, I try to support small VegFest because those are the important ones to Hilton Head. Boy, that's great to have a beachhead at Hilton Head. Right. A beachhead of the organism. So I went down there, lovely people. And this editor and videographer, Jeff Adams, who lives in North Carolina, called me and he said, you know, I really feel like in North Carolina, I don't have a lot of Vegan friends and I'm feeling kind of alienated. Can I come down to Hilton Head and videotape your speech? Because I was giving a speech there. I said, sure. So we all went out to dinner afterwards and I said, Do you still feeling alienated? And you want to project? And he said, Yeah. I said, OK, I'll put you to work. Come to Vegan world. Twenty, twenty six. I'll buy your plane ticket. You go to Viðga World twenty twenty six in Arizona. Mesa, Arizona. And you film it all. I said because I'm participating in it and it's hard enough for me to do the live videos, much less do love videos and shoot a good video camera and participate. So he flew in and he shot the Vegan World twenty twenty six conference where people came from all around the world to do exactly what Dr. Rao said. We know what we have to do. We just need to know how to do it. We all created questions of what needs to be answered. He didn't call it problems. He called it questions that need to be answered in order to create a Vegan world. So we had all sorts of people there, doctors and lawyers and scientists and cryptocurrency. I mean, it was just like a huge group of maybe 200 people with a lot of varying backgrounds. We all wrote questions on the board. Then we divided it up into maybe a dozen different topics like agriculture, finance, workers, you know, those kinds of things. [00:37:28] And then he creates committees and those committees will create subcommittees. And he explains. This is exactly how they do engineering projects. They create committees and subcommittees. So he's moving full steam ahead on this. Anyway, after that, he shot all that. We had pretty much what we needed for a documentary. Also, I have tons of footage that I shoot constantly and some of the best moments of the documentary or lie videos that are contributors shot Leive one. To me, one of the most emotional moments is when one of our contributors in our book or at Jane and Jane Page fastens Roach happened to see a truck filled with cows driving on the road. And she he pulled over, she pulled over and she just started videotaping these animals and talking to them. It's gut wrenching. It's just it brings tears to my eyes. You couldn't catch that if you decided to hire a crew and go out. And now we're going to look for trucks. No, these moments, the power of why video is that you capture moments that are completely spontaneous, that are not staged in any way, shape or form. The same thing with some of the visual moments. We had moments where we were seeing a pig thirsty drinking water and then turned right to some woman who's crying and talking about people need to see this. These were really emotional moments that were captured alive that we took and we added to the documentary. I mean, I think that considering we did this in one year, pretty much the whole thing. I'm used to doing things quickly. I totally respect people who take years on a project like the game changers. And it's spectacular and it's game changing. But we all have to contribute what we know how to do. I was a day of air a news reporter. I, I just I have to turn things around quickly unless I have a personality change. So we shot it. We edited it. And with one year within a year, it was on Amazon Prime. [00:39:27] Well, I have to say, that is auspicious. Maybe at the very least. And at the very most, it's definitely just it's it's being very latter day. [00:39:37] You know, GenZE is the non filter generation. You can't put a filter, you know, photograph up without having a 20 year old house. And I love that because they speak very much so to the mantra of my heart, you know, with this this desire for a platform for authenticity and honest rhetoric and engagement and transparency. And that, I think was part of the moving part about it, the length. None of it was confined by some of these other magistrates that controls other documentaries, even good ones in the industry. You know, this this it did feel shot by obvious different mediums and end it. You'd have to either plan that or just have it happen. And so I think it's very interesting that they narrowed the narrative, curated itself just by a year's format and and your hustle and bustle to put it together. I love it. I think it's one of the best ones out there. And I like its scope. Again, the imagery that you're talking about, you know, she is actually apologizing to the cows when she reaches through the crate and says goodbye. Those you're right. You just you can't write that. And I think a large problem with some of Dowagiac documentary filmmaking is that it's written, you know, and there is that the hypothesis re needed to head and you didn't do that. And so the narrative really does just write itself with a realistic and honest tenor. And I think that it's it's delivered in immeasurably. So I encourage everyone to get on Amazon Prime. And it's a figure, a prime member. It's free. And if not, it's pennies on the dollar. [00:41:04] So what you're going to gain in education, Jane, we're running out of time, but I'm going to move to our rapid fire questions so that we honor our audience members and talking to you about you in particular. We have some very directed ones for. We've had people we reached out to people on our mailing list and we give them this some trajectory of who's coming on. And so let me give you. OK. So the number one thing that we had I tried to take. So for everyone listening, I hear you. But I'm trying to condense a bunch of your questions into one with a lot of people that wanted me to ask you directly about the KFC and the Burger King, these substitution meat alternatives that these major offenders and problem causers of the industry. Do you support the efforts that they switch because any animal saved is a good idea, or do you think that they are the propagators of the problem and still shouldn't be sponsored? How do you view that? [00:42:00] Well, I think that's an age old problem. But let me say this beyond me. For example, we did an entire tour with Ethan Brown, the CEO and founder. It's right here in El Segundo. He's a vegan. He's making a completely plant based product. And he went public. [00:42:18] So I don't know where the bad guy is there. [00:42:21] I mean, and and as this his not competitor, his associate at another company, Impossible Foods CEO, pointed out, just because it says process doesn't mean it's bad for you. It's much better than dead animals. It doesn't have cholesterol because plants don't contain cholesterol. It doesn't have hormones, antibiotics, all these other things that animals bring with them. Also, it's a completely pure product that's untouched by human hands as it's manufactured, unlike meat, which is produced obviously in concentrated animal feeding operations. And then these animals are slaughtered in slaughterhouses that are riddled with corona virus. And where are the workers who tens of thousands of tested positive are sweating onto the meat? OK. So there's obvious benefits there as far as looking at, for example, beyond meat burger or an impossible burger at a fast food joint. The way I like to look at it and honestly, the first time I've ever been in a Burger King was for the B Army burger, the impossible whopper. That was impossible. I mix them up a little bit, but that they're my two, you know, Burger Biondi and impossible. But these are just boxes. OK, these are corporations are are not people. I mean, they can be led by a very dominant personality, but they're not people. They can't be changed. Who pays the price for the purity of us? For example, suing because a Vegan burger might have been cooked on a grill that had also grilled meat and some vegans did sue. I believe it was Burger King and the suit was thrown out. Who pays the price for that purity? Animals? Yeah. We don't want to be an exclusive club. We want the world to be so Vegan that the word Vegan doesn't even need to exist, that there needs to be a code word for Cardus and that you go into a restaurant and the menu is one or two percent Vegan. Well, I don't engage in magical thinking, just like I don't think the virus is just going to disappear. I don't think we're just going to magically one day wake up and I'll be Vegan. It's a process and we have to open the door. As Jean Bauer says, to accept everybody wherever they are on the journey. Very few of us were born Vegan. I wasn't born Vegan. So it was about learning. That doesn't mean I'm not for confrontation on for peaceful, nonviolent confrontation. In cases where it's necessary. But, guys. [00:45:06] We have to get into the major institutions. If we don't get into the major institutions, we're gonna be marginalized. We can get in there and we can change those institutions. I've gotten calls from people, unnamed executives in major, major food companies who will tell me. Wow. This plant based me is coming here. Send your folks over there. There are people in these organizations that want to help. If we just demonize them and say we're not going to deal with them, they're very powerful. OK. So what we can do is convince them it's in their self-interest to convert to plant based. McDonald's could be a 100 percent Vegan company if it wanted to be. And it should become that because some very powerful companies like Woolworths no longer exist. Do they want to be the walrus? Or do they want to be the veggie girls of the future? So we know that they can convert. [00:46:03] The question is consumers need to prove it to them. That means we need to support those products when they appear in those institutions that we may not love. That's my personal, Ben. OK. [00:46:16] Interesting. Yeah. I wasn't sure you were gonna go that way. I like it in countdown to year zero in the documentary, as well as other tidbits of you on YouTube in places you've kind of had this rhetoric about that I find very integral and fascinating regarding the differences between generations and marketing to them and what the marketing to generations now consisting on social media means that they are no longer beholden to old stereotypes and things like that of marketing enterprises that relay horrible information. [00:46:50] And we had a lot of people write in and ask, what is the best utility for social media and getting the word about veganism out there. Like, what is a good action item for the average person who just wants to help the Vegan cause? [00:47:05] Here's a great action item. Every time you make a Vegan meal, take a pretty photograph of it and post it and post a hashtag. You could post boycott me. Skip meat plant based party. I love Vegan. Whatever you want, whatever you want to post, because there's all those hash tags are all circulating out there. It takes a second. You make your food, you post it. This is the most powerful tool we have. This is a network. What's a network? And that work is a production company with a distribution pipeline to an audience. Everybody who has a phone has a Facebook page and Instagram page, a tick tock page. Look at what Tabitha Brown accomplished with one tick tock video on making carrot bacon, 12 million views. A show now with the Ellen Network. [00:47:57] I mean. [00:47:59] I do. And by the way, I really want to urge people to watch our cooking show on Amazon Prime, New Day, New Chef. It's a new day. You can be a new chef. Please watch it. Write a review. It's very successful. Watch it with people who are not yet Vegan and recommend it to people want to go plant based. We have a lot of fun. Every time we turn on the blender, we dance. [00:48:22] Epic, who who's hosting that? [00:48:25] Me. And we have a lot of celebrity co-hosts. Nice. New Day, New Chef. [00:48:32] On Amazon Prime. They're your best days. No question that we had we had a lot of people right in around this topic as well. And there's a lot of people looking at launching nonprofits, a lot of entrepreneurs that want to get involved in starting a nonprofit based with a Vegan tone or ideology behind it. And we had people ask, what are your top pieces of advice? And beginning off with a nonprofit with a Vegan focus. [00:49:00] Well, realize right off the bat, it's a lot harder than you think. Oh, I am one of these people. I just want to go live. I wouldn't be on camera. I want to go shoot videos. Paperwork. Paperwork. Paperwork. Paperwork. And it's important. You've got to do the paperwork. So create a system. So we have people who help us and thank God. But it's complicated and it requires attention to detail and setting up a system and being organized. So this know that there's that part of it. And I would say do it. I mean, that's really the the only thing that I would say was a little bit once I got into it, like, overwhelming. But I've set up a system and I try to adhere to it and I ask for advice. So we just got a great attorney on our board. So that was wonderful because she can give us a lot of insights into how to do everything her as best as we can and as pay attention to details. But do it, do it and get started and try to figure out how to make it support itself, because there's expenses in just having a nonprofit board of directors insurance and the accounting and all the other things that you might need. So there's it's not free. Let's put it that way. [00:50:29] No. What do you do you think the sponsorship or partnerships are both a collection of both. How would you advise someone head into, like, solving some of that difficult financial aspect? [00:50:41] Well, that is probably the biggest issue. And I know everybody's asking right now for all the many nonprofits. It's a high class problem in the sense that, for example, 30 years ago, there were maybe three farm animal sanctuaries. I mean, there was. Farm Sanctuary. The the the biggie we have animal place that I think was founded in nineteen eighty nine of Woodstock Central. I don't wanna leave anybody out. Indro Local. There's a lot of great sanctuaries, but there were not that many 20 some years ago. Now there are like hundreds if you include myco sanctuaries and all of them need to support themselves. So we've been I've been thinking about when I do work and just associate in whatever manner, whether it's a a rescue of animals or whatever, with nonprofits that are sanctuary based. How can you make yourself self supporting? [00:51:34] You have to think outside the box. You have to be creative. [00:51:37] Let me say that one of the sanctuary started something called goat to meeting. I mean, sanctuaries are hurting now during the pandemic. They rely on people coming to visit. They created a goat to meeting. You can Google go to meeting where people can have a zoom and they invite a farmed animal at a sanctuary to participate. They basically put a camera in front of a farmed animal. It is a success. He had to hire more people. That's what I mean about thinking outside the box. Now, we don't want to turn those sanctuaries into petting zoos now, but there are ways to make it creative. Without that, zoos obviously need to go away. They need to either shut down or turn into sanctuaries. Zoos are designed for the better for the people. Sanctuaries are designed for the benefit of animals. But there is a way to make these sanctuaries intriguing enough, whether it's a theme or a value added in terms of maybe concerts or things like that, that where the animals are perfectly protected, they're not exploited in any way, but that they can support themselves. That's a big challenge. But I think if we think creatively, like go to meeting, it's great. I think those are the kinds of solutions we need to come up with. [00:52:59] Absolutely. I agree. I had that creative thought. I hadn't even gotten into that. But sanctuary in a support is a big one. And you're right, with the pandemic, it's it's a rough situation. Well, Jane, we are out of time today, and I'm depressed because I have a billion more questions. And I went by your book, so I'm going to have to lure you back on in a few months and see if we can unpack some more of your work. [00:53:20] I love it. And by the way, one last thing I'd like to say, I have a cup of coffee every morning and it's brewing good coffee and a percentage of all their profits goes to animal sanctuaries. So right there, when you have your Morning Joe, you can order for brewing. Good. They deliver right to your door. And that's how we're going to keep that Begoña me going. Every single thing we buy is a political, environmental, moral. And, you know, it's a choice that affects our world. So I just picked up the coffee and I thought I'd end with that. [00:53:55] And it's absolutely true. You have a million choices towards veganism and fighting that with them. Consumerism a day. I truly believe it. Thank you so much for your time. And I appreciate all of your candor and your information. [00:54:09] Thank you. It was fun, was a great conversation. Thank you for everyone listening. [00:54:13] We've been speaking with Jane Velez Mitchell. She's a social media journalist, activist and author. You can find out more about everything we've spoken about as well as the documentary. [00:54:23] It is countdown to year zero and find out all the information regarding her news and all of the projects in her endeavors on Jane Unchained dot com. [00:54:34] Thank you so much for giving us your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am speaking with Louisa Deasey. Louisa is a twice-published bestselling memoirist, editor and non-fiction writing coach. Over the past twenty years, Louisa has worked as a magazine editor and features journalist, ghostwriter, newspaper columnist, digital copywriter, online editor and media and publicity consultant to major brands, personalities and experts in the health, travel, lifestyle, design, medicine and psychology space.     This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.    TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with Best-Selling, memoirist, editor and nonfiction writing coach Louisa Deasey key points addressed where Louisa's incredible journey throughout writing her first memoir titled Love and Other U Turns. We also looked at these self-taught and honed education and subsequent skill set that Louisa developed in order to write her following and Best-Selling memoir titled A Letter from Paris. We also examine how Louisa used her education and self-taught knowledge in order to develop her online memoir, a nonfiction publishing programs that she now offers online. Stay tuned for my enthralling interview with Louisa Deasey.   [00:00:44] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status. For industry, we aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:42] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I am elated to be sitting down with Louisa. Deasey Louisa is a Best-Selling memoirist, editor and nonfiction writing coach. You can find more about all of her work as well as the services she offers on her web. W w w dot. Louisa Deasey. Dot com. That is l o u i. S a d. A s. E y. Dot com. Welcome, Louisa.   [00:02:09] Hello. Thanks for having me.   [00:02:10] Absolutely. I'm excited to climb through everything that you're doing. We were talking off the air and I told you that we've had a lot of audience and listeners right in over the years and talk about writing coaches and people who can advise about writing rules a great deal in our past. I know that everything that you share with us today is going to be received in the highest regard. Oh, that's good to know. Absolutely. For everyone listening who is new to the podcast, I'll offer up a quick roadmap of the direction of my inquiry's will head. And then I will read a bio on the so that everyone can garner a brief sense of her background before I start peppering her with questions. So the roadmap for today's podcast will first look at Louise's academic and professional background, leading her up to the services that we will then unpack. Then I will turn towards, of course, unpacking Louise's suite of online memoir, a nonfiction publishing programs, where I know a few of those are currently being used up and changed a bit. Then we'll look at unpacking the goals that Louisa has for the next one to three years, professionally and personally. Those have changed a lot for a lot of people in regards to the current climate of the Kovik 19 pandemic. And then we'll wrap the entire Adva podcast up with advice that Louisa may have for those of you who are looking to get involved with some of her services or perhaps emulate some of her career success. A quick bio, as promised on Louisa. Before I start peppering her with questions, Louisa Deaseyis a twice published bestselling memoir list editor and nonfiction writing coach. Over the past 20 years, Louisa has worked as a magazine editor and features journalist, ghost writer, newspaper columnist, digital copywriter, online editor and media and publicity consultant to major brands, personalities and experts in the health, travel, lifestyle, design, medicine and psychology space. More recently, Louisa has created a suite of online memoir and nonfiction publishing programs for writers at every stage of the publishing journey. Her work has been featured in Vogue Body and Soul, The Guardian, Cosmopolitan, The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and Hundreds More Publications. She is currently at work on her third memoir. So, Louise, I cannot wait to unpack a lot of that with you. I'm excited. I haven't had anyone who actually self identifies as a memoirist on and I cannot wait to climb into that with you. I find it such a valid and noble profession. But before we get to that, I'm hoping that you can describe for all of our audience members listening and those watching on a vodcast a little bit about your academic and professional background leading up to where you are now.   [00:04:51] Sure. So. Well, I went to high school, which is pretty normal here in Australia. Then I took a year off and just worked. I lived in a share house and I worked and I did a few little short courses in acting and drama. And then I started an arts degree, which I think it's the same in the US liberal arts. I thought I wanted to do drama and acting. I can't believe I've never even noticed how much I loved writing. But it wasn't until I was in my third year of my arts degree that I realized I actually loved writing about the place that I was studying rather than being in them because I didn't really like people looking at me. So I had a bit of a switch and I ended up doing a double degree in literature because I'd accidentally taken on too many drama subjects before I realized that I didn't really want to do that. And then because I realize sort of it took three years of writing essays for me to realize that I actually love that part of studying. I applied for a really well at that time. It was really prestigious writing postgrad writing degree in Melbourne. And I thought I didn't get in because I looked in the newspaper on the wrong day. So I applied to work on a cruise ship because I thought, well, look, I will just travel the world and write about that, you know, Harry instead. And I literally made it through to the third round of interviews for this job. Crystal Cruises or whatever it was. When my aunt called me and said, congratulations, I just saw your name in the paper for the riding college. So I had actually got in. So I had to cancel that at the last minute. And I started this writing postgraduates. To you, to you, that's called Tife. I'm not sure what that is in the US, but it's more hands on than university. And the whole reason that that's cause it was RMIT, which is Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, professional writing and editing. And I think the reason that it was so highly regarded was because the teachers in the. It wasn't academic. It wasn't philosophical. It was actual hands on how to get published, which, you know, I don't know. That was just sort of the Holy Grail when I was at university, nor one, you know, they talk about writing and publishing, but no one could actually tell you how to get published. Yeah, it did. I started that course. And I loved it. But I ended up being quite disappointed because it wasn't all that it was sold to me to be. And I sort of thought, wow, well, look, this is one of the best publishing courses in Australia, even though it's not very good. And I got a lot of sort of the wrong advice in that course.   [00:07:45] And I ended up sort of staking out a lot of stuff on my own. And remember, this is before the Internet was, you know, the Internet existed, but it wasn't big. It's 2001. And part of the costs was a topic called industry overview. And we needed to do a few hours. So I think it was two weeks on site at a publishing company. So other a newspaper or a book or magazine publishing company and all that that caused told me to contact with these tiny little publisher in Melbourne and see if I could get a couple of weeks unpaid work there. And I didn't want to work at that tiny little publisher. That just sounded miserable. And I didn't want to work that. I wanted to work for magazines at that time. That was my passion. And all the magazines, all the women's magazines, offices were in Sydney. So I bought a copy of the reader's marketplace, which was like this like fifty five dollars an hour. Remember, saving up my waitressing money and buying it and just going through the list of phone numbers and calling every single women's magazine until I could get someone that would take me on for a couple of weeks work. And then I went back to RMIT and I said, OK, I've got two weeks at Elle magazine, I've got two weeks at Bay magazine. And they were like, what are you talking about? They don't take interns. And that's it.   [00:09:01] Yeah, they do. I just tend to call fifty so fifty seven times.   [00:09:06] And then so I flew up to Sydney and did that and that was I guess you'd say I was off to the races because I got my first byline in that work and I'm sort of simplifying it now. But that really taught me that, you know, I just there's only so much that you can learn at university and and time. You know, you really have to do it yourself in a lot of ways. And the other thing is the people that are teaching you often, there's a reason that they are teaching, you know, that they've obviously had their career or they're having a break or so. I just found a real gap between what I was being taught and what I really wanted to do. And I learned so much as soon as I actually started working in, like I think it was the following year, I got my first job at a newspaper back in Melbourne and I learned more about writing for publication in a week. They have had it five years at university. Yeah, it was just really interesting to me. The gap between academic learning and actual actually being inside a newspaper or magazine office.   [00:10:14] Yeah. In the States, we call that on the job training. Oh, T.J.. Yeah.   [00:10:20] Yeah. And I think it's so true, though.   [00:10:23] I mean, I can't say it enough and I'm a big I'm really big on internships or any type of apprenticeship, things of that nature. There are so many fields that I think do this as well. Computer I'm married to an original Silicon Valley computer nerd. A lot of people asking to me know that. And the most hysterical thing for me, and I think it might be changing right now, but it's not nearly quickly enough.   [00:10:48] Computer programing, as studied in university, has absolutely nothing to do with the code that is written that affects you die and changes the range. They are very likely ayari. And that's the same thing with writing. I think you're right in literature and all of my university degrees. And what I love about university is that you do study philosophy and theory, but there's absolutely no practicality. There's no applicability in that knowledge. And I think that writing is a crucial one. And I think your story also brings up a really interesting point, which I've always described. There's a certain amount of entrepreneurship, even to the writers of old to going Artley, Walden, you know, all of those things. That is a very kind of like gusto, greedy. And I think that people leave that out when they talk about writers, you know, and what it's really necessary to be a writer and successful. You running off to city, you calling fifty seven times.   [00:11:44] I would have been more than that, but yeah, it's so interesting that you say that I have all of this. I have all three of Steven Pressfield books. Have you read the war of arson, Tony? And I love I love these books and hate. I love. I think it's in the war about. He says, find you. You know, there's nothing braver and more entrepreneurial than sitting at a blank screen and, you know, trying to put your heart out there and in a way that's palatable for the world to rageous story. He says, find yourself an entrepreneur to chat to for some motivation. I know why that is so true, because it's very similar. You're putting yourself out there. You trying something that's never been done before? Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with you there.   [00:12:30] And you have to have a certain amount. It's it's a crazy tightrope for.   [00:12:34] Right. For authors. I find you have to care deeply about your audience, but you also have to have this kind of devil may care genessee quar about like I'm just going to put it out there. I don't care what anyone says, like, here it is. Here's me, you know, because if you worry too much, you don't release it. You don't put it out. And if you if you don't worry enough that you're not capturing your audience in the way that you ought to. You know, this is kind of given take is so difficult. I'm wondering, how did your career after you kind of launched into doing all of these, you got your first byline from this, you know, very greedy, like something tiny. Yeah. So how did that kind of launch into did you start to pepper into taste as to know which areas of writing you were most suited towards? How did you find, like, your memoir this moment?   [00:13:20] Well, it's so funny because I didn't actually know that I loved memoir until a few years ago. But I say that, you know, I've simplified it a lot. But I you know, I went to Sydney. That was actually a six month process when I was working, interning, trying to get a job, a paid job, because I was working like 40 hours a week at a restaurant in Corkle by Sydney while I was doing days unpaid at these offices. And my Driton, the thing was back then, because it wasn't there was no you know, the Internet wasn't as big as it is now. You had to actually be working on staff to say the stop job ads in Pacific publications and all of those places. And nothing came up in the times that I was there. And I made some contacts and I was like, can you please let me know if something comes up? And I ended up running out of money and just being exhausted because I was working so much because Sydney is so expensive. I came back to Melbourne and got a waitressing job here in Melbourne and then just started sending out because again, no Internet sending out kulla photocopied packs of my tiny little byline. So I think by then I had had a review of a film, an essay, a first person essay, which is Memoir in Runner's World. So I used to run quite a lot. And maybe one other thing and. Oh yeah, quiz. I had a quiz published in Playboy magazine and I would send out these color coordinated packs and that must've cost me so much money because it was all my past. And eventually I got a job. I think it was eight or nine months later at the Herald Sun, which is our major daily newspaper. And I actually had a hiring freeze on at the time, which I didn't know. But now I'm glad I didn't come after got the job there. And that was fantastic. That was a baptism of fire. And I got mobile ones there. And what I found that I really enjoyed writing about was health and wellbeing and psychology, because I think I knew the health editor from school and she'd said, if you want to write a couple of columns, you can do that. And just a bit like you. I loved interviewing people. So I think one of my first articles was on iron deficiency or something, and I had to find a medical expert to interview on why women have less often than men typically. Well, something like that. And I just love the whole process of putting together a story and formulating the argument, getting experts to give you information. That's something. And I'd seen in my time at the magazine offices that freelancers, you know, that you could freelance the health magazines or women's magazines on health topics and get paid quite well. I think in feature articles, this is still when we have print. But, you know, people read print, so you'd get maybe a thousand dollars for a health feature. So I made it my goal to to make a living writing health features and psychology features. There's a magazine in Australia called Good Medicine, and I pitched to them. I just pitched lots of articles and I'm still waitressing. And then I eventually quit the Herald Sun because I didn't want to do news journalism. I found it quite. I really couldn't. I just couldn't handle it. I was there when the Bali bombings happened, which was a major news story here in Australia because Bali is so close to Australia. And yet I just I couldn't take it. I'm not I'm not cut out for news journalism. So I'm trying to fast forward, so after that, I started freelancing, I loved writing about health and psychology. I loved interviewing people at sort of the same as, you know, it just it felt feels like such a privilege when people opened up their lives to you. And, yeah, it's very mutually inspiring. And I, I find the whole process of interviewing very interesting. I think I was working for an architecture magazine and I interviewed this architect and I could see him actually transforming in front of my eyes when I was interviewing him because he was he was considering something he'd never considered before just because of the way I'd framed the question. And I've always found that really interesting. So then miraculously and I'm making it sound quick. But this took a few years. I've gathered enough work to actually just be living off my freelancing. So I no longer needed to waitress. And I met this comedian who he lived out of his car and he excellente basically just performed in outback rough pubs around Australia. And I fell in love with him really quickly and basically moved him to his car because I was like, well, I can write from anywhere. And at that point, I was making enough money and it was just a huge adventure. And so I went traveling with him for about a year. And that was sort of when my career took off in terms of freelancing. So it was quite strange. I got all these weekly columns, fashion columns. Would you believe in a in another newspaper called The Age? And I was traveling with him through these really, really rough redneck sort of places and having to write sometimes from the front seat of the car or lack of a room at the back of the pub. And eventually I came back to Melbourne because, yeah, I couldn't I could only leave out of the car for so long. I missed Melbourne. And I'd always thought, like, I sort of thought, well, wait, I'm always looking for the next thing. And I sort of thought, well, the only thing that is left for me now is to write a book, because I had been freelancing at that point for two or three years, I think, which I loved. But I just wanted to do something bigger. And I always wanted to write a book. And I think I was getting close to 30 years old and I didn't. It's those those significant voices that make you sort of think, oh, yeah, I've got to do that thing that I always said I'd do. So I started writing a book about traveling around Australia with GM, which was a memoir travel memoir, because I always loved reading travel memoirs as well. Mm hmm. And long story short, and I sort of talk about this a lot in a lot of my memoir, blogs and trainings and things. But, you know, it took I didn't know how to write a book. Crooner's knows how to read a book when they stop. And I had a really, really. So I had a few really fortuitous connections. A woman on the street introduced me to her literary agent, like who was one of the top literary agents in Australia. That was a very amazing fluke. But I also had the most brutal rejection that you could actually imagine. One of the top publishers in Australia, a great arrange to meet with me. She contacted my agent. She said she'd been reading my manuscript. She agreed to meet with me at a cafe and she flying down to Melbourne from Sydney. And I thought, wow, she's going to offer me a book deal. And I told my family, my friends, and after an hour of her telling me how bad my writing was, why I'd never be published, I had to actually say, well, I might go now.   [00:20:48] Yeah, what a malicious moment.   [00:20:51] It was pretty awful. It was really awful. It took me six months to get over that. I couldn't even look at the manuscript. I was just humiliated, absolutely humiliated.   [00:21:00] Well, at that point, I wonder, looking back now that you have success under your belt, what was the point of her make going to such effort?   [00:21:08] Well, this is a thing I didn't know at the time. You know, I was so naive, which I sort of think you have to be to get anything done. It took another year when I did actually sign the book deal for that book. And I met with my new publisher and she gave me the background to that particular person and said, you know, she's she's been put on on leave for bullying. She's got a mental disorder and various other things. And I was like, oh, my God, because I never I thought I would go to the grave without knowing why she had flown down to basically put me down for an hour in a cafe.   [00:21:50] The power hierarchy in publishing is ridiculous. I mean, it's all right up there with my mother, most antiquated, you know, DHT and subject kind of. Ships that happen. And I is I am excited about it being overturned and we can get into this later.   [00:22:04] I've spoken to a lot of authors that self publish because that did this system, it was abusive at its finest.   [00:22:11] So abusive. I'm wondering, are you describing the beginnings of love in other U turns? Yes. Yeah. Oh, my God. That book was published. Yeah. So after I got over the brutal rejection and everything.   [00:22:25] I actually rewrote the book and then pitched it on a cold pitch Friday. And it was like she called the publisher, called me on the cheese day and offered me a book deal and I just cried. And it was published, I think, six months after that, which is pretty quick in publishing, really fast.   [00:22:42] What caused you to, like, finally kind of regroup after six months from your lashing and think. No, no, this is good. I know so many people that would abandon a piece of work with that kind of abusive moment in their life. You know, it doesn't. I would have abandoned it.   [00:22:56] And yet, my friend Dave. He's no longer alive. I ran into him just on the straight and. Hey, hey. I'd gone to school together and he was there. And the other student who studied literature in our country, high school, and he was a good four A's, like a sole friend. You know, I hadn't seen him for about five years. And I ran into him on the street and just said I said I wrote a book. But it got no love lost or something. And, you know, I just vaguely told him the story, but I was still crushed. And he said, you wrote a book, you write, you actually finished it.   [00:23:28] You got to pick it up.   [00:23:29] And he was determined. He took it on like it was on him. But I get that book back to a publisher. And if it hadn't been for him so passionate about getting me. And he looked at it and gave me feedback and he was like, you need to stop the story here. And he was so passionate. And he was actually dying of liver cancer at the time. And he passed away before that book was published. He was only thirty two, but if it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't picked it up. But he was just so determined like you wrote it and you finished it. You can't just chuck it out. And I think about that now. And I think that's how I want to be for other people, because it is I think it's just it's a tragedy when people get so crushed by rejection that they just put it away. And I've seen that happen. And it's.   [00:24:18] It takes a long time to finish a book. It really does. Just labor.   [00:24:23] And bless Dave for knowing that, you know. Yes. You, too. I think you're right. I think voices of encouragement are so necessary. People don't realize, I think, how important that they can be, you know, from outside. So after you had your initial success, did you immediately catapult you into a letter from Paris or did you take some time? How did that play out, the aftermath of success?   [00:24:50] No, sir. This is sort of a complicated I mean. Yeah. So the book so I love another U-turn came out.   [00:24:59] It was a very odd time in my life because my mom died at the same time.   [00:25:06] And also publishing had switched completely online. So everything that I used to do for money, which was pitch FHA radicals, I went down from first the word count stopped. So we went from a nineteen hundred word FHA to 700 words. So that means if you getting paid by the word, you're now getting three hundred and fifty dollars where you used to get twelve hundred. So it just became less and less. It was harder and harder to live off freelancing. And I knew that I had to retrain in the digital world, but I had no idea where to start because, you know, and a lot of people that I had worked at the Herald Sun with or had who'd been freelance journalist or had been journalists, it was a really hard time. Everyone was like, you know, they just suddenly lost their jobs. I know a woman who started a funeral home after losing her 20 year job, you know, in this type of some editing, because she was like, well, that's never going to you know, there's always gonna be a need for a funeral home. Yeah, but I sort of and I saw some of the bloggers coming up, and I think Sarah Wilson had just started blogging in Australia. She's the I quit sugar lady. And I could say that some of these people were really taking on the digital world and harnessing that. But I have no idea where to start. Like, I'm such an on tech savvy person, like, you know, and I didn't know anyone who did it. And I ended up taking this. And the thing was, my book came out and I talk about this a bit later, but I had no idea what I should have done when that book came out to really make it a success. So a lot of people don't know when a book comes out. You know, you basically get three months, if you're lucky of time, chop shop shelf space. Yeah. And you've got to do with many interviews, as much publicity as you possibly can. I had like a website that was stuck in the 1970s. I had to ask people to actually update it for me because it was all hyped, humoral card. I didn't even know I couldn't even update my website, wasn't even a word press or anything was on some something that I don't even know. Yeah. So, yeah, I was really shocked. The book came out and it sold a few copies and then by October that year it was like I'd never done anything and I was starting from scratch again. And so I was really crushed, actually. It was quite depressing because I sort of thought, well, I spent so low on this book and, you know, these are these things that people don't tell you about publishing, but you need to be stuck thinking a year ahead. You need to be doing your publicity count down. And then this is the full podcasts really were a thing as well. And I do do a lot of radio interviews, but. But because I did I had this weakness in the tech sphere.   [00:28:05] I didn't have a good website. I didn't know how to how to set up a blog. I yeah, I didn't know how to do any of that. I basically went back and got a corporate job at an accounting company because they would take they taught me how to do web editing. And I had to use like six different content management systems.   [00:28:25] And I learned a lot. But it was the most boring job I've ever had.   [00:28:31] Yeah.   [00:28:32] Yeah. But, you know, I just I needed to get a job and I needed to learn how to use the Internet, you know, digital publishing. And so I was sending out seven weekly tax newsletters at these incredibly boring job. I don't think I really lasted like three months. That got I learned a lot. And then I went to Byron Bay because, as I said, my mum had died not long. You know, maybe a year and a half earlier. And I still very, very wounded from that. So I sort of packed up all of my things and moved to Byron Bay and just sort of lived in this shed that overlooks the forest, which didn't cost very much money and started writing digital copywriting. So I, I transferred the skills that I've been doing as a journalist to that and got quite a lot of stuff published. The only difference is your byline isn't on it when it's copyrighting. And at that point, I started writing a fiction novel. Sorry, this is such a long winded way now.   [00:29:33] Love. Yeah.   [00:29:36] So I started writing a fiction novel because I thought that was the other thing. So publishing a memoir. It was actually also quite a bizarre psychological process when Love another U-turn came out, because, as I said, my mum had just died and I was doing all these interviews based on the person that I was when I wrote Love of a U-turn. So it's all these free wheeling and it's a quite a funny book. Quick. It's it's all about the wackiness of outback towns and how I liked not having many possessions and just living out a car. Banks are free in Australia, but after my mum died, I, I really changed. My character changed. I think everyone loses a parent without changing a lot. And so it was quite hard doing those interviews and trying to be all cheery and promote that book when I had changed so dramatically. So I thought, well, gee, I don't think I can write in another memoir because it's just so personal and, you know, people are asking me about my relationship with Jim when really. And saying, you know, your mom must be your parents must be so proud of you. And I hadn't even properly grieved. And it was all just was really hard. It's it's very hard for me writing a memoir because it is so personal and you need to have a lot of. Not protective, but you need to know what you're doing. And I didn't know what I was doing. I hadn't. I didn't really know anyone else who published a book. I though the lady on the street who'd interviewed, introduced me to the literary agent had sent me some great advice. But aside from that, you know, I there were no writing coaches at that point. There were. Yes. So I moved to Byron Bay and I started working on a fiction novel, which was sort of a thinly veiled fiction. It was about trauma and grief and processing, sort of what I was processing. And the only way I could write it was to make it a fiction, even though it really wasn't. It was all just a metaphor. And then I sort of did what I needed to do in Byron Bay. And I came back to Melbourne about a year later. And, yeah, just just went back to work. And I was pitching that fiction novel around. I ended up going to the US, going to this incredible writer's retreat because I wanted to get it to a publisher in the US because I thought, well, the reason my book Eleven of a U-turn wasn't a success is because it was only published in Australia. That's such a small market here. But that didn't really eventuate. And then that book was sort of messy. And I think I really didn't. I'm not supposed to write fiction. It's not. I didn't have the genre right. I didn't even know if it was a thriller or a romance or what or like a supernatural. It was just it was a bit of everything. That book was kind of my therapy writing that.   [00:32:32] Well, yeah, it sounds cathartic. Maybe maybe not being published in any way.   [00:32:40] And so I came back to Melbourne and I just got lots of different jobs editing and ended up working in media, sort of media training and marketing for Melbourne University, which is really big. But it's I think it's one of our biggest universities. And I loved that job. And, you know, I really just threw myself into my work and thought, you know, like a cat published a book. But I'm probably never gonna do that again, even though I wanted to. I sort of stuffed that down because I'd been so disappointed with what happened with love. Another U turns anyway. Long story short. I had just finished a year working at Melbourne Uni and I'd quit because of something really awful that happened there. We've with this boss and I received this email from a woman in Paris about my father. And so my dad died when I was very young. And she said our grandmother died yesterday. And in her apartment, we found a stack of letters written in nineteen forty nine about a man named Dennis in Deasey Are you any relation? Is he your grandfather? And that was my dad. And I said, well, I wrote because this was on Facebook Messenger. She contacted me and I said, nineteen forty nine. That's right. So she was telling me he'd been in London. I didn't know any of this stuff about my dad. I didn't know that he'd been in London when he'd he'd been to France. I knew that he'd had a French wife, but I didn't really know when or how or how that had connected. And basically, as soon as she started e-mailing me and she sent me all of these translations of the French letters that her grandmother had written and she said, you know, grandmother was talking about your father until the day she died. And they actually sent me a recording of her in the hospital talking about my death. And this had been 36 years since he died. And I just couldn't. It was all a bit crazy. And I remember thinking in the pit of my stomach, if I'm going to have to write another book.   [00:34:54] I just I was like, man, but I've done it.   [00:34:57] And it was so hard. Yeah.   [00:35:00] And I think this is sort of where why and where the whole memoir coaching and the courses that I do now, where it will come from. Because at that time as well, a good friend of mine, she'd won a competition, a writing competition for a piece of memoir she'd written about running away from. So she her dad was a Vietnam vet and had very serious PTSD. And so she and her siblings and her mom had had to run away from home because he was very violent. And she'd want to competition for this pace. And long story short, that led to her publishing contract for that book. But she'd never published a book before either. And I saw her going through everything that I'd gone through with Love, another U-turn. So she didn't know that she would have to organize the launch event and do as much public. She felt the publisher was going to do everything. You know, she she really didn't know anything about the promotion. She was really upset and kind of stressed and. Yeah, that sort of thing. And so, like, I sort of took it on myself to try and educate her for what she should be doing up to the launch and that sort of thing. And then. Yeah, we just talked a lot through through the launch of her book and everything. And that was when. I was working on a letter from Paris, but I was determined that I would not write the book the same way that I did love another U-turn. So I didn't want to write the whole manuscript and then stop pitching it. I was like, I need a deadline. I need an FUC advance. I need you to pull this stuff. So I was really, really strategic, which I'd never been before. And I pitched, I wrote, I got things published. I used that to leverage publishers interest, which then led to a documentary. There's a show in Australia called Australian Story, which is documentaries of I don't know if you've ever seen it. I have. OK. Well, one of the producers of from Australian Story contacted me about this story about my dad, which I've been how to make. Leveraged into the contract for a letter from Paris. Because I really want to. Yeah, yeah. And I'm shortening it. There are a lot of very stressful phone calls and emails. But I was determined that I would have a deadline and a contract before I sat down to write that book. So I worked on a letter from Paris. And it was it was a bestseller when it came out in Australia two years ago and it's still been up and down a bestseller here, and it's come out in the UK and the US and Canada as well. But the reason that I'm sharing that isn't too advanced. It's because I was very, very specific and determined and strategic in everything that I did with Boris. How I pitched the book, how I avoid it to how it was published. How I went to the editor, what I did pray, publicity, all of that sort of thing, because I had had such a bruising experience with love and other unions. And the thing is, most people don't get a second chance to write a memoir or publish a memoir. So I was very lucky. But this is what led me to create these courses. And so the coaching that I do with authors is because what I saw I saw what happened with my friend Bruce. I know what happened with me. And so many people think the story's over when you sign that book to Sharon. And I know what you're saying about self publishing as well. If you actually if you want a lucrative publishing contract, self publishing is the way to go. And if you've already got a platform and you've already got an audience, you might be better off self publishing. But for a lot of people, like it was to me, you want to be traditionally published because that's, you know, this it's pretty amazing to have the backing of a traditional publisher. And it's you know, it's one of those dreams you want to be published by a publisher. And, you know, they do things that. I mean, just the quality of working with the editors on a letter from Paris taught me so much that I would have learned if I'd, you know, I would never of self publish that book anyway, because it's too important to me that it be produced in a really quality, beautiful. I just really wanted it to be traditionally published, but I understand that a lot of people. If if the purpose is to make money, then I would say sure. So publish or even spade, if you want to be speedy.   [00:39:55] No. And I also think there's a great deal more to be learned. I think both processes have education.   [00:40:00] But certainly the old still old school, there was, you know, a valid moment in that two to be had. And I think that there is there's a great mystique. It's just like academia. It's just like any race. You know, there is still a great deal of pride that one should take out of executing those systems. And it sounds like, you know, your qualifications. What I love about the difficulty in this journey that you've just unraveled for us is that you couldn't come from a more qualified source, you know, to have love another U. Turns and then a letter from Paris and and being on this bestseller, you know, international list is amazing. And I love. I don't really trust teachers that haven't had some kind of a struggle.   [00:40:46] Well, that was the thing.   [00:40:47] That was the thing with me and I, you know, and that was what made me so angry, actually, when I was at uni was none of those teachers had been published. And I was like, what do you know, except for, you know, bizarre academic journals. But I was like, but I want to see your book in a shop.   [00:41:03] Yes.   [00:41:04] And I want to hear the story. The difficulties are, you know. Yes. This horrible moment of someone flying from Sydney to kind of train crash you until this friend uplifted you and all of that back and forth.   [00:41:15] And yet I'm wondering. So we're getting to your Web site and kind of crawling through the suite of online services that you have. Can you kind of crawl? Anyone who hasn't visited your Web site yet or knows anything about it? What are the different services that you offer your clients?   [00:41:34] So it's it's funny that we're doing this podcast now because I'm actually raised configuring a few things because what I've realized. So I always wanted to offer memoir coaching and courses to show someone step by step how to write a memoir, because I know how overwhelming, how overwhelmed I felt at the beginning of a letter from Paris. I was like, how do I even put the sample chapters together for a publisher? How do I know? Because it's such a personal thing. You write, it's so overwhelming to go well, how do I, you know, jump into my entire life story and pick out the most relevant or interesting peso's to this story. And so I sort of came up with a process and a method for that finding the quote which know most storytelling. You would find the same with documentaries. You finding a hook, you finding where the story actually begins like that is more crucial than anything. You're finding the universal themes, finding the they really unique personal aspects to the universal themes. So I'm always sort of obsessed with finding like creating a mathematical or strategic formula to something to make it less overwhelming. So I originally started I created a course called Memory Academy, which was a six month step by step course for writing your memoir and getting it ready for a publisher. And I've had a few people take that course and I realized that it sort of needs to be three courses because it's very layers. There's three layers to writing and publishing a memoir is the actual writing of it, which anyone can can do. I love writing and craft is really fun to study. Yeah. Great to sit in your room and write a memoir. And this is something that I noticed with my students who took the program last year, which I'm really doing is if I hadn't got over their visibility issues, if I hadn't won, one of my students didn't even have a website that had her name on it. She was too scared to use her real name for any of her published paces. And I realize visibility is one of the biggest aspects of writing and publishing a memoir. So I sort of have to put that into a separate program, which is all. And I didn't realize that I'd done all of this with you. So all those years that I spent pitching articles and following up and writing freelance articles. That was me getting comfortable, being visible, pitching and following up. So I created a another smaller program, which is all about getting getting published and getting visible because that is actually going to lead to your book deal anyway. So, you know, if you want to be traditionally published and if you want to self publish, you really need to get visible, too, because you'll sell more books. So I separated that. And then this is the new program that I'm working on, which I'm really excited about, because it's everything that I was just sort of. Describing to you about my friend Bruce and then what I went through with love, another U-turn, which is people who signed the book deal, right? That's amazing. That is a huge accomplishment. But there's actually a six to 12 month process that they need to go through to ensure that that book sells for longer than two months, because that might be the book. The only book that they ever publish and you want to give it the best chance of success. And self care is a huge part of that process because otherwise, how are you going to go on TV or radio or podcasts and talk about your incredibly personal, sometimes traumatic story? Because a lot of memoirs are about very traumatic experiences or Newtons. You know, sometimes if it's a travel memoir like Love, another U-turn, that is a happy that is a really happy story that I wrote. But, you know, for example, with a letter, letter from Paris, I did a lot of talks, library talks. I did some events in Sydney at the Ambulance Française, because my dad was connected with the aliens from sides. And I had complete strangers coming up to me afterwards and asking incredibly personal questions about my family. And if I hadn't been prepared for that and if I hadn't done it all before, I would have just fallen apart. And I still was extremely exhausted after promoting that book, but. I had all these methods in place and I knew what I was getting into. And I think there's a real gap there. People think as soon as I've signed the book deal, that that's that's a fantastic I'll just hire a public system. I can take care of the rest. Yes. Or you actually have to do a lot, particularly with memoir, because you you are the story. It's not like I didn't invent with a really well-known historical fictional son. Attach a list of documents. You've heard of her. She's hit the bestsellers in the in the US with her latest book, The Paracel Orphan. And we didn't have into the library. And, you know, she had always it was the same library that I'd done an event at two or three months earlier. And she had members in the audience asking her questions and she looked so relaxed and so happy. And I realized, oh, my God, it's because she didn't because hers is a fiction. And I was like, oh, man, you have to be so different.   [00:47:16] And she wasn't, like, absolutely ruined after the event and, you know, just meeting. And I never thought about that. She's just discussing the story. She told you she's not discussing her history.   [00:47:29] I would feel personally, I would feel sorry personally, sort of pried open after every media appearance or event, which is fine, you know? And they will. And I did certain things to strengthen myself before that. And there were questions that I wouldn't know, that I wouldn't answer them, but I'd sort of come up with because I've worked as a journalist. Sort of come up with deflecting ways to turn them back. But, you know, it's all this stuff that people don't know. And I really want to educate people because. Yeah. A bit like the legacy project thing. If this memoir if this book is the only book that you ever have published, you want to give it the best chance of success. And you you owe it to yourself as well to to really look after yourself and really promote it to the best of your ability, your ability, and make it a really joyous, glamorous, wonderful thing because. Yeah. I mean, a lot of memoir groups on Facebook, which is sort of showing me how. How damaging that whole launch process can be if people aren't prepared properly. So that's that's the new program that I'm working on. How long is it? How long does it last? At least six months. I haven't. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't completely fine tuned the the material yet, but it has to be at least six months. I'm thinking of possibly extending it to 12 because most most publishers give you at least 12 months lead time before the book comes out. Yeah.   [00:49:08] And it's it's more to cover not just the marketing and the publicity, but self care. And you know what you want what you want to say. Media training from that perspective of, you know, if this is the only book that you publish. If if this is what your children and your grandchildren are going to hear about your story, what would you like them to take away? So, you know, I like politicians. Get trained to. Sure. Your press conferences. Authors may need that sort of training as well.   [00:49:42] Absolutely. Well, given that you're revamping a couple of things right now and kind of extending into its proper time, length and category, sectioning with the three different courses, and what are their goals and plans do you have for yourself moving forward?   [00:49:56] Are you looking at any new works yourself or are you kind of honing in on this some coaching role, this advisory role that you have for the next few years? What do you see for yourself?   [00:50:06] So I'm always I'm always thinking of the next project. At the moment, I'm actually working on a proposal for my third memoir, which is actually a Joel memoir with my dad. So as I as I worked through a letter from Paris, I found his manuscript in the library. I found a memoir that he'd written. And this is part of the reason I'm so passionate about memoir. And even though he died when I was six through writing his memoir, I feel like I've got a relationship with him. I know my dad again. So I really am so passionate about the value of memoir in terms of writing. You know, if he if he hadn't left his memoirs, I wouldn't know so much amazing stuff that happened to him that, you know, even things about this character that I've just really, really been important to learn. So I'm working on a proposal for that to be published as a follow up to a letter from Paris. I've been transcribing all the material because it's suddenly pipe up at the library. So over the last year, I've been transcribing it and into digital files and now I'm just polishing it because it's sort of from the 1940s and 50s. So, yeah, it's pretty, pretty fun to work on that. And also working on. Yeah. I'm really excited working on these memoir programs. I have one of my programs that I'm not revamping. That's just there. Evergreen for anyone is for beginners and that's a memoir journaling program. So that's a 30 day program because I couldn't have written any of my memoirs without my journals. And it sort of teaches you how to write in sort of how to ask yourself those questions that are going to get you writing in a way that you can then use for for a future published book if you want to turn things.   [00:52:02] Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love the call and response that you're having with your with your father as well.   [00:52:07] You know, I'm I'm a big believer in closed doors and death being maybe one of the most astute ones that we're faced with in this sphere, not closing conversations in relationships. You know, I think it it's it's very finite. To view it that way. And I love the idea that you're having this newfound conversation in relationship with your father all these years later. It's amazing.   [00:52:30] It's set a work of love. It is. So I mean, I was working on it yesterday and I I published a couple of the chapters from his first trip to Paris in 1940. I was just like, Ma going out. This is this is incredible. It's like a Paris that is from a made up story buttons because it was in his diary. I knew that it was true. And I just.   [00:52:53] Yeah. Yeah. The Paris. I want to go to everybody from Paris. I want to be there. I can't.   [00:53:00] You know, I can go and read some of the stories. I want to go back to Simone de Beauvoir as Paris like I want.   [00:53:05] Yeah. That this is like. Have you seen Big Night in Paris, the Woody Allen film? Yeah. This is like that. It's like, you know, he's just walking into a cafe and people are like, oh, god, my car coming. I will, I will take you somewhere better. And just hopping in the car with people and.   [00:53:21] Yeah. Yeah.   [00:53:22] Absolutely brilliant. Well I cannot wait for it to come out at all. And Louisa, I am sorry to say that we are wrapping it up on time because we could I could sit here for our days with you.   [00:53:36] I probabley talked way too much.   [00:53:37] No, not at all. I'm not editing any of this out. Am I going to let my team do it either. I want to know. I this is my final question. I wrap everything up for those of you listening the same question. It's my favorite. She's never going away. I'll never stop asking it. If you were in a park or a garden somewhere in beautiful Melbourne tomorrow to socially safe distance given the pandemic and a young woman or female identified or non binary individual walked up to you. So anyone other than a straight, white, cis gendered male and said, listen, I you know, I went to university, I would do this writing program. I think people have it wrong. I don't think there's enough application applied there in a mean I'm going to launch out on my own. I'm going to write my memoirs, and then I'm going to get them published and I'm going to do all of this and I'm going to use the grit and determination that doesn't hasn't been taught to me before. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?   [00:54:34] It's so funny because I did actually run into a. A girl who sounded very similar to that at a bookstore a few months ago, and she was so sweet and asking me questions because she wanted to be a writer. The first thing I would say is. Persevere. It's like it's like what what Dave said to me. You have to persevere.   [00:54:57] You probably get rejected the first 10 or 20 times. So perseverance is more important than having a quick win.   [00:55:07] The second thing is to always be learning. So I take everything as a learning opportunity. Even the most brutal rejections or feedback try to take the good and drop the bad because you can't take it personally or you'll just be wounded. So I try and just treat everything as a learning experience. And lastly, only speak to people who've been published in terms of advice, if that's what you want to do. Just get your advice from people who've been published. Don't be listening to, Someone whose Aunt Jenny, maybe Wrote a letter once 50 years ago. That was maybe put in a newspaper. Yes. Find some people that you can model or and even if you can't talk to them, read on their blogs, listen to their podcasts. We're sort of lucky in the Internet era, we can find mentors and not even make them. And learn all their best stuff. So, yeah. I my three pieces of advice persevere. Take the good. Drop the bad. When you learn and find someone that you can model what you want to do. Find someone actually published that you can model.   [00:56:28] I love this. Three pieces, especially the last one. Only speak with people who published about publishing like I love them.   [00:56:33] I shouldn't have this now. I believe it is last or. I know. I agree.   [00:56:40] Thank you so much for speaking with us today, Louisa. I appreciate it so much. And I know that everyone listening will as well.   [00:56:47] Thank you, Patricia. It was really good.   [00:56:49] Yeah, absolutely. And for everyone listening. Thank you so much for giving us your time. I have been speaking today.   [00:56:55] I've had the brilliant opportunity to speak with Louisa, Deasey and you can find her at w w w dot. I'm going to spell it out. L o u i s a dea s e y dot com for all of her services, as well as information regarding all of her bestselling books and works. And thank you again for giving me your time today.   [00:57:15] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay well, stay safe and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am chatting with Elena Theis. Born and raised in Germany, Elena traveled the world extensively before she decided to settle in Berlin. She left a successful career in online marketing and went on a trip to Hawaii in 2013 that changed her life for good and marked the beginning of her vegan journey. Today she is dedicated to promoting plant-based and cruelty-free living around the globe as a vegan writer, artist and coach. Elena is the creator of #VeganVentures - Plant-based around the world, a vegan travel blog which also features occasional recipes. This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with author and creator of the Vegan travel blog, hashtag Vegan Ventures, Elena Theis, Key Points addressed where Elena's world travel and expertize developed within that travel. Regarding Vegan life both in Berlin and the world over. We also discussed Elena's point of view on the Vegan scene as it is in Germany today, as opposed to five years ago. Stay tuned for my wonderful talk with Elena Theis. [00:00:33] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertise and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics they can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:30] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. [00:01:33] And today I'm excited to be talking with Elena Theis. She is the creator of hashtag Vegan Ventures. It is a Vegan travel blog. You can discover more about it. And Elena herself on w w w dot Vegan hyphen ventures dot com. [00:01:47] Welcome, Elena. [00:01:48] Welcome. Hello. [00:01:50] You started to unpack everything that you're doing. You've written a couple of books as well that I'll kind of try to pull into the threads in the conversation regarding the rhetoric of hashtag Vegan ventures for everyone listening, who's perhaps new to this podcast and broadcast, I will offer a quick roadmap of the trajectory in which we'll base our inquiry out of. And then I'll also give you a quick bio on Elena before I start asking her questions. So the roadmap for today's podcast will we'll look at unpacking Elena's academic and professional background and then we'll also look at her Vegan story as it's interwoven or not within that previous inquiry. And then we'll look at the logistics around Vegan ventures, unpacking that the who, what, when, where, why, how, when it was founded. All those good things. And then we'll look at the ethos of that site. Its intention, Elena's intention for the future with it, the goals, the audience that she's approaching and speaking to and the efforts that she hopes to make with it. And then we'll wrap everything up with advice or future work that Elena Theis's seeks to endeavor regarding all of her work. So, as promised, a quick, short bio on Elena before I start asking her my questions. Born and raised in Germany, Elena traveled the world extensively before she decided to settle in Berlin. She left a successful career in online marketing and went on a trip to Hawaii in 2013 that changed her life for good and marked the beginning of her Vegan journey. Today, she is dedicated to promoting plant based and cruelty free living around the globe as a Vegan writer, artist and coach, Elena is the creator of hashtag Vegan Ventures, a plant based around the world. Vegan travel blog, which also features occasional recipes as if you can ambassador. She shares her lifestyle and recommendations on social media, as well as on the Vegan platform. A billion veg, which donates one dollar for each roo, review to animal sanctuaries and cruelty free products. Molina holds an M.A. in Mass Communication and Media Arts from Southern Illinois University, a coaching for transformation certification from the leadership that works and is also and is a licensed realtor in Germany. She's the author of several books, including Shampoo Thoughts on Happiness and Tag a Nasha. This is going to test my German Derice Vineet. I probably butchered that, which is soon to be published in English as hash tag a Nasha. The journey begins. It's a n a. S h. The journey begins. So know I'm excited to crawl through. I have read your original. Well, one of your several books. Shampoo. Thoughts on Happiness. And I'm excited to kind of climb through that with you as well as what you're doing with hashtag Vegan ventures. But before we get to that, I'm hoping you can draw kind of at a platform or description of your academic background and early professional life that brought you to the point of launching Vegan Ventures. [00:04:45] Sure, I'll be happy to. So, yeah, as you mentioned, I gather a master's degree in mass communication from southern Illinois back in. Oh, my God. 2005, I believe it was. And after I decided to move back to Germany to be closer to family and started working for a really small advertising agency, like one of those things, you know, you're out of college, you get the first job that you get. And that's how it went. [00:05:14] And one day, however, a Google recruiter found me and offered me to work for Google. So back in the day, I didn't think about it too long. And I accepted the job and I moved to Dublin and started working in marketing for Google and. But realized quickly, I'm not the kind of person that's gonna be very happy in a big corporation. So I left that job, moved back to Germany and work for what was at the time, Germany's biggest social network. That was before Facebook took over the world, actually, where the biggest platform and I headed the sales department, sales and Partnerships Department there. [00:05:58] Yeah, I spent pretty much most of my traditional professional life and online marketing and sales to some extent, and also at some point realize this can be it. It was a fun journey, an interesting journey. But I came to the point where everything I was doing seemed to be missing something. I realized I wanted to make a difference in this world with this lifetime that I have. So. A process started that took several years, actually, but it started with a thought. With this wisht of, you know, doing something meaningful for the world. So I started venturing out and got a couple of certifications about different things and finally decided to leave that corporate world and then traveled on my own. [00:06:53] So what was what do you cite as some of the impetus? It sounds like, you know, it was a journey, the coaching for transformation, certification and things like that kind of coming into play. [00:07:03] But and your book, Shampoo Thoughts on Happiness, kind of starts to climb through, you know, a lot of the the main axioms or montreaux, if you will, of kind of this idea that I think has shaped a lot of what you're doing with your future endeavors following that. But you talk about mindfulness and frustration. There is, you know, unemploy. You have a period underneath a description or neith that where you stayed, you were unemployed and you were telling people that it was your intention to stay that way. It sounds like you kind of crawled through this journey slowly. But do you have any specific key point in your life that pushed you towards it, or was it mere unhappiness that made you desire something more? Or was there ever any point that you were introduced to something or an incident that happened that started the journey? And was this when you started thinking about Vegan life? [00:07:58] To the first part, yes and no, I mean, there was underlying unhappiness, but I wasn't aware of that. The real trigger, the major event that triggered this this quest for something more was actually I had a miscarriage in 2008. It wasn't a planned pregnancy, but I had just arranged myself my life, my ideas around the thought of having a baby. And then I had a miscarriage. So my entire life changed completely. Within a couple of weeks, twice, first in one direction than in the other. And that for me, was really like my whole foundation shattered. Everything that had mattered before just didn't matter anymore. I mean, I had a successful career. I was making a lot of money. I had all the glory. Fancy names on my resumé, but I just didn't care anymore. Nothing mattered. Yeah. So that was really the. The starting point, I would say, back in the day and but then it still took a couple of years, actually. So like I said, this happened in 2008, late 2008, and it wasn't until 2008. Well, I believe that I left my last corporate job. But in the meantime, I did a whole lot of other things. So, for example, I spent some time at a Buddhist Buddhist monastery, which I would describe definitely as another milestone. I over the years, I spent two, three retreats there. But the very first time being there and getting in touch with Buddhist philosophies, which back then were completely new to me. I mean, I knew nothing about all that mindfulness and that I was busy being busy. And so I would say those two were the major milestones in everything from there really happened. I never. Your second question, I never consciously decided to be Vegan. But one day I was. And it was just this process that started with a dietary consultation, actually, with an innovative dietitian. And she I was. I have to tell you, I looked a lot different back then. I was 60 pounds heavier. One of the things and I just actually went to see her because I was struggling with allergies. And so looking at my eye, you're Vedic type. She just recommended to leave out certain foods. And I did not completely, but I tried. I was experimenting and I could tell the most, mostly that is red meat and dairy at the time. And I realized very quickly how much better I was feeling. And so for me, it's all interwoven. I didn't think about being Vegan at the time, but once I started or I stopped consuming edible products or reduced them, at least at this point, I could see the connection not only to my body and mind, my health, but also my mental state. Yeah. So and this journey led me to a point where I just first of all, my body was craving any of these foods that I used to love before, but also how my mind something was started. I started to question things and how, you know, I can lead this lifestyle on one hand, but not look at the entire picture. And for me, food, body, mind and spirit, it's all one. So at one point I realized I can't do this anymore. And suddenly I was Vegan. [00:11:54] Yeah, after that path. I've spoken to, you know, this series, this podcast endeavors to look at the Vegan world from all angles, not one in particular. And it's interesting how all roads lead back to Vegan. You know, it's a there a like maybe I've unearthed about I'd say well over 30 so far in my 50 podcasts that I've done. [00:12:18] Reasons why, you know, there's health, there's optimal mental clarity. There's spirituality, there's animal welfare, there's economy and ecology. There's environmentalism, there's accountability and sustainability, all sorts of things. But it all kind of leads back to people questioning all of the other arms of it as well. You know, so if someone came at it from the environmental aspect, they eventually come back to describe having questioned the cruelty aspect and things like that. It doesn't really matter where you begin. Everyone ends up at the center with a lot of very similar ideas, which is unique because it's not true in a lot of ways of life, you know, and certainly not in a lot of dietary, which a lot of people consider vegans to just be a dietary thing. And I think what's interesting about it is I titled the podcast this after doing research of realizing that it's truly a way of life for people after they've encountered it enough and much like yourself, you know, allergies and things like that. I don't think that people who are adults who don't suffer from allergies. I was one of them. Understand how much mental fog accompanies them. Allergies from food even and from the environment. There's a description of just like a haziness constant like sleepiness. And when that's lifted, along with the allergies like you, you speak about this mental clarity that goes along with it, which I think sounds like a brilliant side effect. I'm curious, after you, it sounds like everything was interwoven within this time period. You know, you were experiencing this idea, Vedic help with the diet. Then you're going to, you know, Buddhist retreats. You're studying this philosophy and you wake up one day and your Vegan. Is that when you chose to write shampoo thoughts on happiness? Or was it during that transition? Was it during that journey? [00:14:02] Actually, Champi thoughts the book as the book was, it was just published last year. Dories, I'm right about we're a part of this journey. And actually back then I started blogging. I started a blog which I called Mindful Vision, which still exists. But I don't really use it anymore. But that's how it all started. I woke up one night in the middle of the night, I remember, and I had to start this thing and I started writing. So the idea for this book came last year on a trip, actually, and I started not just using the block. A lot of the things I published on the blog first, but they've been edited and enhanced. But the foundation was really that blog. And then it's it's a continuation also of my first book, Nasha Deviser Begin. You were close with that, by the way. Thank you. But it was really the the idea of taking all these learnings, taking all my baby steps that I took at the time. You know, I took so many steps in different directions. Sometimes I was walking circles. Sometimes I took one step ahead and three back to to use that and share it. And like, I have all this and. I mean, you read it, so, you know, it spans quite, quite some time. Yeah. This little episodes. But that's that's how the champloo thoughts came about. But really, as a library of inspiration, sharing my own way, sharing my own doubts and thoughts and stumbling stones along the way. [00:15:51] Yeah. It talks a lot about core tenants that I think speak to a lot of things that Vegan practitioners from all different rooms kind of come into concept with. [00:16:00] And I hadn't really thought about it until it was leaked as part of your bio. But you talk about addiction to stress and things of that nature that, you know, these these moments of of having to do to use as a, you know, radical honesty in an effort to really analyze things we'd rather not look at. We've spent a lot of barriers. I think a lot of people would tell you the majority of people I know would say that they don't like stress. And you unpack it as this like. Indeed you do. And you enable it. And, you know, you're quite addicted to it in one's life unless you're looking at it, because it's part of, you know, I was too busy working to consider work. You know, think all of these f they kind of turned in on themselves, which I think is a lot of the Vegan things as well. You know, people talk about, you know, I was too busy eating to consider my diet, you know, things of that nature. I was too busy being addicted to food to realize why I was addicted or to realize that it was killing me. So I want to climb into the I want to know. So let's get the logistics for everyone listening out of the way. So when was hashtag Vegan Ventures, the blog launched? And did you take any funding? Did you have any co-founders? And what was the impetus for it? Like what was the beginning phase of it? [00:17:13] It was born out of necessity, actually. The blog, as it is now, I would say, was launched sometime in 2016, maybe seven, early 17. I can't even give you the exact date because also everything in my life, you know, I start something. I don't know where it's heading. And one day I see the result. So Vegan Ventures was really started out of necessity. And I went Vegan in 2013. So it's been seven years and a lot has changed in the meantime. And I've always loved traveling. So when I first went Vegan and I was traveling, I was on my own. I mean, you couldn't just go to the grocery store and pick up five different kinds of plant based milk and Vegan cheeses and whatnot that you can do now everywhere, at least in Germany. I mean, all the major grocery stores everywhere carry a good amount of Vegan products back in the day. [00:18:13] Not the case, let alone eating out when you're traveling. So a part of my travels for me was not just the travel, but I enjoy it. But I also wanted to. [00:18:27] Help other Vegan travelers at the time sharing. You know what I found out, caring about local places or sharing the best tips about how to go about something. So, for example, I learned very quickly that you can't rely on really getting a Vegan meal on an airplane even if you ordered it. Just little things. But it was really things I discovered along the way that I just wanted to share to make it easier for others. And also in the second set, that was the first step, how it came about in the second step. [00:19:09] I just wanted to share my Vegan life as an inspiration to show people you can do this. And this is not just munching on carrots and celery. And you don't stop living a decent, fun life because you go Vegan just the opposite is the case. How much more very colorful, healthy fun this can be. And that was really the second step that I still wonder. That's still my aim until today. [00:19:39] Absolutely. So you and you kind of mix in everything you said. You know, you've got some recipes. You do this. You do that. [00:19:46] How do you what does your curation process like? How do you decide what makes it onto the blog? What's important enough to feed you? Take audience readership feedback. How do you do that? [00:19:56] A little bit of everything. So as I told you before, I'm kind of I just do it and then I see where it goes. But I had to be a little more considerate at some point. The recipes, for example, that was I wasn't planning on putting recipes on there. And there are not a whole lot up there yet. I still have a lot more to go on there. But this was. Yeah. Reader feedback. Yeah. [00:20:25] Actually on Instagram because I'm posting a lot of my food on Instagram that I make and I'm making a lot of Vegan German food as well. So this was actually this came from a German speaking following mostly like, oh, can you send me that recipe? And then I send the first recipe in a sense a second recipe like, oh, that's a lot of work, something out each recipe by itself, like, okay, I'll put it on the board. [00:20:51] So this is reader feedback. I started doing little videos, promotional videos as well. And this also just happened because I happened to be in Greece and I met a wonderful Vegan chef with German roots. [00:21:10] And finally his his place is also called Roots, Foods and Cultures. [00:21:15] And I loved his story. I loved his food. I love his place. And his vibe was like, I need to share this with others. So I started making a little video to catch up, catch the vibe of the entire situation. [00:21:30] So really, it evolves as I go along. Yeah. And I would respond. [00:21:36] Speaking to that, I still think one of my my great narratives that I like to draw vegans and non vegans alike through is the story and chronicles of Vegan cheese. And I don't know how, but the Greek the Greeks got it right, like Fast and Furious, like 10 years ago when Vegan cheese over here was terrifying. Like, you just couldn't get near it. It didn't melt. It was horrible. It was filled with more preservatives than plastic. And the Greeks just came along and used olive oil. You know, it was a genius thought. So I and to that end, I kind of want to unpack because you have this great finger on the pulse for a German begins. And I have to say, I have a lot of stereotypes to unpack when I start traveling as a Vegan because I think of Germany and I think of schnitzel, you know, and like very, very few things I can think of eating are like Kraut or something like that, you know, like very few items. But I want to kind of unpack with you how your perception of the Vegan scene in Germany is and how it's changed if it has changed over the past five years. [00:22:39] Oh, definitely. Absolutely. I mean, I live in Berman, so this is not really a good example for the rest of Germany because this is, I think, the Vegan capital of at least Europe, if not more. I think we have now I'm not quite sure, but I think we have in Berlin alone about 80 all Vegan restaurants and cafes or stores. So here, whatever you crave, it's a Vegan schnitzel. You'll have at least two or three places to get their Vegan schnitzel. So Berlin, different story. But even the rest of Germany, major, major changes. So when I first I remember 2014, I was traveling throughout Germany, the southern area of Germany, mostly rural. [00:23:28] So I was Vegan already. It came to a point. I didn't even bother asking for Vegan options anymore. Right. It just didn't exist. Maybe they had something vegetarian, but it was surely stuffed with cheese and. Other things I wouldn't. So I went on a raw vegan diet for a while because I didn't have I didn't I couldn't cook or prepare my own food. That's fine. So that's OK. [00:23:58] But nowadays I want to say, of course, you you still see different agencies. If you go to a bigger city, even if it's not Berlin, it's a bigger city. [00:24:09] All of them have Meekin restaurants by now. And unless it's it's a very nice old fashioned place, I would say most places either have a vegan option on the menu or will be able to free something for you. [00:24:34] And an issue without getting angry, like back in the day, I would say five years ago when you told someone you were vegan, it was like a call to arms. You know, they were immediately, like, offended if there was an immediate education and perhaps it a de-escalation of being offensive to them. And I think now a very least, people are willing to hear the word without like that reaction, at least in the states. Is it the same over there? Can you kind of use the word Vegan? And what is it in German? [00:25:03] Is it is there a word for it? It's almost the same. It's Vegan. [00:25:10] Do you think that if you were traveling through, let's say, South Germany and you bumped into a little town or even over towards like the Polish border would if you said that word would in a delicatessen or a restaurant, would you think that people would know what it was? [00:25:29] Hard to say. Most I would. I mean, if you're in a very, very small town, let's say older people, your chances are getting slimmer. But overall, I would say overall, people know what it means. I mean, not necessarily everything that it means. So I always I learned that very quickly that if you say I'm Vegan, I don't eat animal products. Sometimes it needs more explanation than that. [00:26:01] So I usually just run through the list, you know. So that means that I don't eat and then I just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when they suggest something I think about and everything they could possibly put in there. [00:26:14] And I double check and ask again. But overall, this people I don't see this. What you see this. I think it's an anger. Something like that. It's more. [00:26:28] Amazement or so, how can you live like that? Oh, my God. Or why would you do that? But it really has changed over the years. It's much more accepted and no. Like I said in the May, all the major supermarkets here in Germany, they have increased their Vegan a product by I don't even know a lot. [00:26:56] And I think that well, I believe that were some of the anger that a lot of people may have experienced five, 10 years ago is based out of veganism, was introduced as this restrictive, almost cultish way of life that a group of people lived who were kind of obsessed with the welfare of animals and militant and not caring values and beliefs like the rest of us. [00:27:16] And since that time period, at least in the United States, there's been so much media and propaganda and films and scientific studies that have come out and proven the benefits and the longevity, you know, on the disease reversing and health aspects of veganism. But I think a lot of people now don't necessarily attribute it to this militant way of life, but rather people who may be seeking health or may have allergies. It's just been attached to something else. And so I think that the anger portion of it has definitely dropped off. No, I will stay say that. As a mother of four children, there's no faster way to get, you know, people kind of throwing up their arms with me than to suggest that my Vegan child's coming to their child's birthday party even when I'm like none of them know that they're good. [00:28:03] They don't eat anything that you wouldn't worry about it. [00:28:06] You know, there's there's this sense of difficulty, whereas children who have any type of allergies, you know, I don't think that there's that same sense, at least not to their face, perhaps behind their backs. But this inclusiveness, I think, is starting to reach out. I like it there. So Europe is tiny, but so different, you know, especially with the Vegan culture. I visit Ireland a great deal. Dublin and my husband's family is, you know, it from there. And then we travel all over. And Dublin did a good job. Over the past 10 years, they've had some really staunch old historical Vegan restaurants that have been around for 20 years. And and since that time period, the vibrancy has kind of come up. But I really see it as a product of you had a few of the old guard, but it's the youth. It's generation, you know, it's the millennials, definitely. But GenZE who are actually coming at veganism, not necessarily from a health standpoint, because the youth tend to be healthy, but rather from an environmental and a responsibility standpoint that they all have. And it's very different from there when I go to Australia or somewhere else. The youth and the vegans there have a very. They come at it from exercise and fitness. You know, there tends to be that influence over there. I'm wondering, where do you think the larger population of the Vegan members of the community are in right now in Germany? Is it in the younger? Is it also spreading into the older? How does that work? [00:29:37] They're everywhere, of course, but I do think the younger gender a generation is. [00:29:44] Is making a difference and bringing more awareness to veganism. And also, you know, tying in like environmental aspects. The odor. I mean, this is by no means. A general assessment. But from what I see or from the people that I know, I would say the older generation, most of them, not all of them, but a lot of them did come to veganism because of health or for for health reasons. And like with myself, you know, that's the start. And then along the way, a lot of them open up like, oh, they're a million more reasons to be Vegan. But this was the starting point. I see that with with the older generation in general, but especially the young ones. Environment. Animal rights activism. All of that. I would say is probably the driving factor. Like the young folks are willing to go out in the streets and do all the protesting and all that. Definitely. And I also think that from my experience. It's a lot more normal. And the younger generation to be Vegan. [00:31:02] Yeah, and they're gonna grow up. So it's going to get you know, it's going to be normalized one way or another. I'm wondering, with the Kovik 19 pandemic and the set in for you personally, obviously not on a political scale, but has there been conversation in Berlin that you've seen about Acom returning to looking at food or sources of health? Not even I don't get into the cause of Cobbett or anything like that, but it's returned a lot of people to a conversation about diet and what we are eating and and what will keep immune systems healthy in a way like hasn't happened over the past 50 years. And I'm wondering in Germany, if there has been a return to considering, you know, even just like increasing the amount of vegetables or things that do kind of speak to the Vegan lifestyle. Have you seen an increase in that with anyone personally or on the news or anything like that? [00:31:55] Personally, I'm trying to have these conversations because that's exactly my arguments. Like, we do have an immune system. It's it's made for things like that. I mean, I'm not saying that this is not real and people aren't suffering and dying. I do see that yet. We do have an immune system. And for me, this I have to say, I don't follow the news daily. I just don't. But from what has come to my attention, what I've seen, I'm not seeing that at all. It's more about, you know, trying to what can we do to go back to our weird way of normal life that we had before? No, we're wearing masks. We're doing this, doing everything possible so we can go back to our routine behavior, which was the most convenient. And we don't have to look at it. Nobody's publicly, at least, and that's a nobody. But this is not the news that the majority of Germans hear about, like a discussion about, well, what can you do with your immune system? How can you boost it? All these things? And it's really I find it very annoying because I'm trying to have this conversation or at least have the conversation. Why don't we hear about this? I do trust in my system. I do. And so right now and this is really a very sensitive topic, because just this or last week, they found a huge outbreak in a slaughterhouse in Germany. I don't know if you've heard about that day. [00:33:30] And I had wondered kind of what the local conversation was about around that. [00:33:36] So. [00:33:38] I just heard on the radio today as I was driving in my car, I just heard that apparently one major politician won. One of the conservative parties said we need to reconsider. [00:33:53] Our animal agriculture was like, ha! [00:33:59] I didn't hear what he said in detail just so I can only give you what I heard on the radio. But apparently for him, we need to go back to small slaughterhouses. [00:34:08] That's not the discussion we need to wrap up. [00:34:11] But at least, you know. But not the discussion. I want to have, but it's at least a step and still I mean, a lot of major outbreaks. [00:34:22] I mean, from what I know, this has been the biggest in Germany and the slaughterhouse. But there have been major ones at the slaughterhouses before. [00:34:30] And I can't believe that we're not having other discussions then. How long do we need to have. Wear a mask? How can we keep our kids out of school? That's not the solution to the problem. That's just masking it with a mask. [00:34:46] Yeah. And as endurance wanes, I think the desire to stop questioning, you know, the endurance, to continue staying at home, the endurance to continue questioning, like, exhaust the mind. But I agree. And the cool thing about science and pandemics, if there ever were a cool thing, which there isn't, is that it doesn't let up just due to human exhaustion. So it will spike again if things aren't considered and changed, you know, it won't let go until it's had its way, until we figured out a way through its way. [00:35:16] So I agree with what you're saying. I'm wondering. It sounds like you've had a lot of interpersonal dialog. You've wanted to have conversations with your public, with everyone around. And I'm wondering if that has changed your goals and what some of your goals are for hashtag Vegan ventures, for the blog, for your investigative efforts. Will you continue traveling once travel restrictions are lifted, once there is an immunization to covered? And if so, will it change your dialog with the world? What are your future goals? [00:35:50] It kind of has, actually, I mean, I can give you like an exact direction where see the setting. But what I what I found is, I mean, I started this, as I said, more as an inspiration for others or sharing my knowledge. And I've come to the point where I really want to speak up for those who don't have a voice. I want to help this planet move in a plant based direction. I don't know if I'm going to see this in my lifetime, but at least I want to say be able to say at the end of it, I try. And so for me, this entire thing has been to be a lot more outspoken about that and to also have the uncomfortable discussions, which it's not that I didn't have them before, but it wasn't really my my focus. But to to wake people up, to show them what's going on. And also, I mean, I was one of them. I mean, I eat meat for thirty four years of my life. I not once questioned that really before. Not seriously at least. So to have these discussions knowing I know where you're coming from. I know this is very uncomfortable and I know this will maybe be a little. Challenge here and there, but. We live in the year 2020. There is so much information out there. You literally it's harder to close your eyes and not see or hear any of them. Then it is true, as it was, let's say, 20 years ago, you had to go out and find these pieces of information. Absolutely. I agree. I think it out there and there is not one ethical reason to keep doing what we're doing, not for humanity, not for the animals, not for the planet. And there is no planet B and we need all of us on this planet. [00:37:58] Well, that just shows you the incredible attachment to the only thing I can equate it to is practicing breath work during meditation and things like that when people tell me to control my breath. There is an innate like almost automatic anxiety that creeps in to the body without even realizing in the mind when you go to control that because you're controlling your life source. Right. You're controlling your air. You need it. And I feel like the same is true for food when we go to question certain things about food. You are not just thinking about one aspect of your life that you might change. You're thinking about the love that your grandmother gave you. You're thinking about all of these things subconsciously. You know, the way that you reward yourself, the way that you hide from things, the way that you get through a tough situation. All of these different things are very much so attached to food in every single person's life, all over the world from, you know, South Africa to Antarctica. And so I think that analyzing it needs to come from, as you're saying, this place of compassion, you know, that we get that the people who have gone through it and thought through it and gone through these these testing things that we're very much so attached to for existence and coming out saying it's fine to be a little bit nervous, you know. But I think it's also proof that it is so clearly ingrained in just more than nutrition. It's more than just we're eating what we're eating to live because there is no evidence on Earth that says eating meat anymore is a good idea. There's just no thought given for the sustaining of our civilization. And so the idea that people are still doing it, it's because it's so attached to other things that we fight wars over, you know? And so I think that it's really great to come at it, as you say, with this very patient. Like, I understand this is a little scary. And I was where you were at those types of things. I have yet to actually speak with someone who was born Vegan. I will find them. Hopefully it's a her or a female identified or non binary individual because that's the company I like to keep. But I would love to find someone who was born and is a Goldstar Vegan never, never varied away because I just haven't met one yet. [00:40:06] I have some good fortune. I wish I could say I can put you in touch with her, but I can't because one of the things that I do are used to do. [00:40:17] I do Vegan tours in Berlin and one of my guests. Which wasn't even looking for it was a different tour that I did. But we started talking about veganism and she told me she was born vegan. Remarkable. Her dad was vegan and. Yeah. [00:40:36] I'm jealous, seeing as you have never even questioned it. [00:40:44] You know, and so I think it'll be. Yeah, it'll be fascinating. My children will be able to say they were born vegetarian. My youngest won't be able to remember not being vegan. But to be able to say you've never is an interesting idea, you know, and to kind of crawl into that. And the majority of the rest of the vegans are walking around, you know, needing to exhibit the compassion that we once should have for having realized, you know, the truth and things of that nature. We're slowly car crawling into being out of time. [00:41:12] But I wanted to ask you before I let you go. Elena, if you have, like, a taut piece of advice for anybody who is listening, who is not Vegan, but kind of analyzing it, listening to this podcast, we've had a lot of people right in saying I really like the idea that you're coming at it. We've interviewed a whole bunch of doctors and, you know, just as I've said, different characters and experts from different parts of life. And you're coming at it from this traveling standpoint, from a very personal testimony. And I'm wondering if you have any piece of advice that you can offer anyone who's kind of listening just to educate and understand a little bit more about the Vegan world. [00:41:49] Two things, actually, one. I get that, too. A lot of messages from people who are not Vegan yet, but they see the benefits for whatever, like all the reasons mostly, but they struggle. And for me, this this has led me to think about offering some Vegan coaching. As you mentioned, I am a coach. I'm a certified coach. I never really before I thought about going in the direction of seeking coaching, but doing exactly this, helping people along the way with their struggles. But that's a general approach. But overall, have compassion with yourself and take one step at a time. I mean, you don't have to be the perfect Vegan overnight. Some people can do it. Most people can't. And you don't have to. It's OK. Take the step that you can look at your life as it is right now and look at, OK, what's the first area I'm going to take on? What can I do? What can I change? How can I create new rituals, new things to reward myself? Join Vegan groups like acquaint yourself with the lifestyle with little bit and then go step by step by step by step. And you'll always be you know, you'll do it at your own pace and eventually. Don't beat yourself up if you can't keep your goal that maybe you had in mind. Turned out you couldn't reach it. Yes. It takes time for most people and have compassion with yourself as much as you do with the others and the animals, and I love that. [00:43:31] That's perfect. Thank you so much for coming on and giving us all of your advice and your expertize today. Elena, I really appreciate it. [00:43:39] Thanks for having me. [00:43:41] Absolutely. For everyone listening, we've been speaking with Elena Theis. She's the creator of hashtag Vegan Ventures. You can find out more. It's w w w dot Vegan hyphen ventures, dot com. And thank you for giving us your time today and having your thoughts with me. [00:43:57] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe, eat well and always bet on yourself. Slainte. 

Today I am chatting with Maggi Thorne. Maggi is an American Ninja Warrior 5X competitor who was the 2nd Mom up the warped wall and first to beat the salmon ladder, NBC Spartan Ultimate Team Challenge 2X championship competitor, and a previous Mrs. International 2014. In 2013 she placed 2nd at The World’s Toughest Mudder running 75 miles and completing 330 obstacles in 24 hours. Maggi served as a Global Ambassador for feedONE traveling the world in an effort to further feedONE's mission of helping others with the gift of a nutritious meal. Recently she created a BOW patch with the Girl Scouts to inspire female entrepreneurship, empowerment and community engagement, which thousands of scouts have earned since 2019.   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.    TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with elite athlete and motivational speaker Maggi Thorne. Key points addressed were Maggi's history as a track and field college athlete and the subsequent career that followed it at the University of Nebraska. Maggi explains how both of these opportunities led up to her becoming one of the most famous American ninja warriors to date. We also unpack the ethos behind Maggi's brand and how her phrase never give up serves not only as a guiding light for her present and future endeavors, but also remains a constant theme throughout her past, which was riddled with obstacles itself. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Maggi Thorne.   [00:00:42] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen. And this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM. You can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:39] Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I am your host, Patricia. And today I'm elated to be sitting down with Maggi Thorne. Maggi is an athlete and motivational speaker. You can find out more regarding her, her services and all the information we talk about today on her website. W w w dot. Maggi Thorne dot com. That's w w w . m a g g i t h o r n e . com. Welcome, Maggi.   [00:02:05] Hello. Thank you so much.   [00:02:07] Hi. I'm excited to unpack everything through. We're talking off the record and I have your famous in my household. I have four children that worship American Ninja Warrior as well as all of the other games that you've been involved in with your story. And so I can't wait to kind of unpack that. You're there, our first ninja warrior on the show. So I'm excited to kind of climb through everything with you.   [00:02:25] Oh, I love that you just climb through everything, because we are certainly going to unpack some obstacles today. So thank you for the opportunity.   [00:02:31] You bet. For everyone listening who might be new to our podcast, I will read a bio on Maggi to give you a brief background before I start asking her to unpack her history with us herself. But prior to doing that, a roadmap for today's podcast and the trajectory of inquiry that we'll be following. We'll first look at Maggi's academic and professional background as it pertains to where she is right now. And then we'll look at unpacking all of her endeavors. We'll look at. I'm packing her athletic endeavors with American Ninja Warrior, Spartan race, things of that nature, as well as her professional life and getting into motivational speaking, some of the ethos and philosophy that motivates both of those things that she's kind of known for. And then we'll look towards goals that Maggi has for the next one to three years. This is an area that's changed for everyone. Given the pandemic climate that is upon us, as well as for Maggi herself, given her history with them competing and all of her activities, we're up everything up with advice that Maggi has for those of you who are looking to get involved or emulate some of her dynamic success. So, as promised, a quick bio on Maggi before I start peppering her with questions. Maggi Thornee is an American ninja warrior, five time competitor. She was the second mom of the Warped Wall and the first to be to beat the Salman letter, MBC Spartan Ultimate Team Challenge, two time champion competitor and a previous misses International 2014. In 2013, she placed second at the world's toughest mud rent motor running seventy five mile, completing three hundred and thirty obstacles in twenty four hours. Maggi served as a global ambassador for Feed One, Traveling the world in an effort to further feed one's mission of helping others with the gift of a nutritious meal. Recently, she created a BO patch with the Girl Scouts to inspire female entrepreneurship, empowerment and community engagement, which thousands of scouts have earned since 2019. Maggi is a previous Governors Award winner for inspiring community engagement and her American Association Heart of Gold Award recipient. Professionally, she speaks to hundreds of thousands on inspiration and never giving up. In addition to engaging volunteers globally, a mother of three, she and her kids love serving, being active, traveling together and in her spare time, she loves to eat chips and salsa. So I have to say, as possibly one of the most fantastic things to just kind of put out there about yourself. Thank you. I love for your career and everything that you've done and a lot of the particulars that I have to inquire with you about. I'm wondering if you can kind of give us a general background of your academic and professional history prior to becoming the American ninja warrior that kind of propelled you into this.   [00:05:12] One of the biggest misnomers about myself and any success is people say, oh, man, anything you do, you're successful at and you have the golden touch. But they don't really realize is where I started at. And to jump back to the good old days of the 1980s that we all love to be nostalgic. I was born in San Diego and grew up in a low income home. We lived with another family and I actually never played sports growing up at all. I wasn't an evolved child. I did Girl Scouts. I was a Girl Scout and loved that time as a Girl Scout. But it wasn't until a teacher in high school at the age of 14 who thought I looked fast in PE and gave me an opportunity to become a California state champion. I became one of the top runners in California. Or that ties in for me academically is both of my brothers were high school dropouts, the highest grade completed, and my family was high school. So college wasn't something immediately on the radar for me as a kid. And I thought I was going to enlist in the military and become some kind of Air Force person who would serve our country. And it turns out I got to be a professional athlete later in my life who ended up having a college degree. And that was the first person in my family who ever had a college degree, which was just of all the accomplishments, if I look back. A school was a huge challenge for me. I really struggled with it. I didn't have a lot of academic support, support and really looking at the academic history of my family around me. It was a little hard to be motivated when you think, well, both my brothers dropped out. There wasn't a huge push for me to go further academically. So it started to be a series of choices that I really had to realize. I'm going to write my own story that I'm going to have to choose where I end up. There's nothing else around me that is going to determine my path but me, I decide. And so that played a huge role into a lot of decisions I made going forward.   [00:07:12] Yeah. I mean, being a trailblazer that early on was something is, I think, college. You know, for those that don't come from a family of it is daunting, you know, that the prospect of anything at that level without having someone to kind of refer you as to, you know, the process, even silly things, financial aid forms, you know, those used in the day. Things have gone electronically. But it was that kind of thing. When you don't have anyone who's done it before, it can seem almost intermountain insurmountable. What did you end up majoring in?   [00:07:45] Well, I wanted to be a PE teacher, and two weeks after I got to the University of Nebraska, they unfortunately dropped that major. And the only other thing I could do was get a bachelors degree in community health without entirely starting over my academic career. I had a huge support system at Nebraska that was actually one of the top reasons that I chose Nebraska. It wasn't just that I got a full ride or they had a great check her room, which they absolutely did. But I had to take a step back and look at the academic support that they had. And it was off the charts. They have more academic all Americans than any school in the country. And that's even over Ivy League schools. And, you know, you're surrounded by cornfields and counselors. So they really help set the table for that. And then being able to decide that degree.   [00:08:29] What was that experience like as a college athlete? I haven't spoken to too many, particularly guests on this show that speak to the experience. We've heard stories in the news where things, you know, on Olympic teams and things like that can be horrific. And I've also heard stories of camaraderie. But for you, what was that experience like?   [00:08:47] Number one, I love my experience in Nebraska from the moment I stepped on campus for my recruiting trip. It was so welcoming. I do remember I'm a pretty sharp, quick, funny story. They got me a sandwich after I got off the airplane. And unfortunately, there had been a hair in my sandwich. And I think they thought I was never going to sign as a recruit. After that, they were mortified. When this big, long hair came out of their mouth.   [00:09:11] But from day one, they're like, we're so sorry. We'll make you right.   [00:09:14] And I remember walking around, everybody said, how are you? But then they stopped. They keep moving past you to mention it. They were really invested in your life. They knew. How's your family doing? Whereas when I was a student athlete, my brother had died by suicide. And the support I got from people, everyone writing personal notes, you know, not just a group card, but. Other people were on academic staff pulling me and my coaches. Do you need any support? Are you OK? So I really had an amazing experience there. There were things that were hard. Absolutely. There's things that we did as an athlete that we got push. But I think that it's shaped part of who I am. I had a coach that was from Russia. And at the time, I got so hard on me because there are other athletes. If it was snowing or raining, you know, we're in Nebraska. And I would see them not having to practice inside or outdoors. When we were or, you know, they would get some back out of the meat if it was snowing. But one day, because I was complaining I was being such a big baby. He goes, Maggi Easterday was big truck championship was run. Yes, Vector's absolutely. I'd run. If today was a national championship. Would you run? Yes, that was. He goes then today you run and every day you run like a champion regardless. I was like, OK, I think I just like five accents. He's Russian and he was fantastic. But I remember that because I think one of the reasons I've become successful is it wasn't deciding to be my best when it was always convenient or it was the most opportune time. It was learning to be my best when I was at my worst consistently, and that some people might have to wrap their head around that for a little bit. But my time at Nebraska shaped me for ever. It launched me into careers and what I did next, which will probably talk about in a second. But I love Venus student athlete, the discipline. That was a part of it. I was in the weight room by five thirty in the morning that I was in class and I took a power nap for 30 minutes every day and then I was practicing again. So I spent six to seven hours or whatever. Was NCW allowed? I don't want to. I'm sure we stuck to that. But I spent you know, I was a part time, full time job, if you really want to say it, being a student athlete and then working and then doing your academics. And then I also served on the Student Athlete Advisory Committee. So there was there was a lot involved that it taught me how to have practical life skills that really applied to the real world.   [00:11:45] Yeah. And for the real world, you encountered, particularly right in your future to come, this one can be taken on a lot of levels. I think there are a lot of people that it's a it's an interpersonal dialog. That word conjures up different things for anyone that it's asked to, you know, and for athletes, it's a very special relationship with the word discipline. So I'm wondering, after you came out of college, what did you go into next? What was your first kind of professional encounter?   [00:12:13] When I was a student athlete, I had one class left before I graduated. And at that time, I actually thought I was going to end up being a personal trainer. And I was going to enroll in graduate school to get a graduate degree in nutrition and health science. I wanted to do nutrition counseling at the time, but I had that one class and then I had free time. And even as a student athlete or, you know, a college senior, I was so uncomfortable having so much free time, I thought I should really get a job. So I asked my coaches if they knew anybody on campus that needed worker. And it turns out the facilities and construction crew needed a worker. So I started as a student worker for Nebraska athletic department, picking up trash. I used to vacuum suites.   [00:12:57] I'd set up tables. And this turns out 10 years later, I ended up managing 340 million dollars in projects and designing and managing the facilities I used to clean. So that's in a scope of it. So I'm going to go back to literally no. How did that really happen? I was this do when I was a student worker on the grounds crew. They had a secretary that was gone one day and I was the only female. So they brought me in to answer phones. Yet we can all chuckle at that one. Only girls can answer phones, which isn't true. One of her puts, but there was a group of guys talking about projects and I had an idea. And so I spoke up. And I think it's so important for people to do that, to not think that you're not qualified enough, you're not good enough, your ideas aren't good just because you're not a person standing in the room with the suit. I mean, I had a T-shirt and jeans on and they all looked at me and then one of the persons who was in charge of that department said, I want you to start coming and bringing a suit and still bring your grounds to float, browse through clothes. And he would just give me projects, no instruction on the projects. You just tell me something to do and see where I would take it. And that's how it really started. It was because someone missed a day of work, which I'll say to this day, I can't transfer a phone call. There are so many notes that we could people they were out. They were busy like too many buttons. But eventually he asked me, said, what do you want to do with your life? I said, well, I'm not I'm not super sure, but I know I will never spend every day in an office wearing a suit. And I spent the next 10 years in an office wearing a suit. So I learned never say never. You have to open yourself up for opportunity because that could change the world literally can't count ourselves out. But it came down to. There was a one day when I think this is the day that I really got hired. We were working on the Nebraska football lounge. We were redesigning it. And it was a meeting that I wasn't even invited to. I'll see it right now. But I was hungry for it. And so what I did and keep in mind, you heard what my degree is. I had a bachelor's degree in community health. I never had any experience in construction, architectural design, engineering. But every day when they left office, I sat down and I taught myself how to use every single program that they used AutoCAD, 3D design, Photoshop, all of the Microsoft programs. And then I taught myself how to read for plants. And so it came down to that meeting. And my boss and they had a intern get a master's degree in architectural design. And I walked into his office with the floor plans and I said, are you ready to go? And he he didn't want to tell me no. So he's a. Yeah, sure. Come to the meeting. He was being so kind. And when we showed up, the thing that happened is I was prepared. No one had asked me to be prepared. No one told me what to do. If you want something, you've got a deal to figure it out. You can't sell yourself short. I didn't have the degree. So that was the day I think I got hired because the there is the principal of a firm who said, does anyone else have any other comments on the drawings? And no one expected me to say a thing. And I pulled up my floor plans and I said, I actually have some comments. And everybody, again, they looked at me. And after the meeting, they came up to me and said, I have to tell you. Nobody ever catches things like that except me. And he's a senior principal of a firm. And so my boss looks and eventually, six months later, I had to compete for that job against that intern that had a master's degree in architectural design. And I had a bachelors degree in community health and I got hired. So I spent my next 10 years doing that. And it was amazing. All the cities that got to use this student athlete, I got to create awesome environments, build an arena, expand a football stadium, build a volleyball arena. So if anybody ever wants to tell me, I can't I'm not equipped. I don't have the degree. My family was too poor and really the wrong person to say that, too.   [00:16:59] Yeah. Absolutely stacked against you. And those software, not for nothing but AutoCAD.   [00:17:04] I mean, when my partner in life is, you know, one of the original Silicon Valley computer nerds and I feel like I've touched almost every software piece out there. AutoCAD is my least favorite. It's not friendly. It is like in the arts. It is like too much there, too much utility. So teaching that to yourself is I mean, the grit that is required with that alone is is astounding. So you you went onto it. You were you were an employee through this department of the University of Nebraska for ten years. Yes. And universities are an interesting umbrella to work under because they're kind of their own microclimate. But they have a lot of the similarities as far as the aspects and the software and things like that. But they have their own hierarchy. I think, you know, I worked for the University of Utah for a spell and it's just its own microclimate. I tried to explain it to people like, you know, there's it's you have the professional industry and then you have the university bubble as well. And everything functions under boards and committees. And this and there's a lot of different boxes that get checked for things.   [00:18:04] So it's it's it's a lesson, I think, in patients as well as process. Right. They sometimes when I think about universities. So what happened? What caused you to leave the job?   [00:18:16] I love that job and I actually loved it so much that sometimes I would really choose it over friends or family in gatherings and there's a lot of things that got pushed aside. And I started to have this whole of every day. You know, we're building the east stadium expansion. And I watched it go up from the first piece of steel that went in. And I love something being built from the ground up. My heart space is on a job site. But as I watched it construct, I'd walk over this bridge every day from where I parked. And it's like that start to say, don't just build buildings, build people. And every single day I was on a job site and I felt it. And eventually, unfortunately, my best friend in the world, she was the maid of honor at my wedding when I had got married. She died by suicide. And she was the second person who in my life, my brother had in 2005. And then she died in 2011. So within 10 years, I lost two people to suicide. And the day of her funeral, I was standing over her casket. And I thought, I can have all the success in the world. But what if I lose people, I get. It just doesn't matter. I could put my name on every building in the city of Lincoln, Nebraska, on. I've been a part of so many, quote unquote, important projects, but when you're a part of building someone's life. That's it's amazing, there's nothing that compares to being able to just share love and empower someone. So I made a commitment that day that I was going to love people. So I thought about three years we were in the middle of the biggest capital campaign that had ever existed for Nebraska athletics. And I wanted to be committed to what I was assigned. I was at the helm of a lot of the projects with my boss, John Ingram, who's fantastic and definitely inspired me in so many ways as a male leader supporting a female in a male dominated industry. But I had told him, I said, I think I'm going to leave eventually. And it's really my passion to go love people and build people and not buildings. And he knew that. So I started getting involved outside of work in Mrs. International. I wanted to take the skills that I had.   [00:20:34] And I learned over time because as a part of Nebraska athletics, that role grew a lot, whereas a part of hiring committee is a part of the rebrand for the entire athletic department. When we made our move to from the big twelve to the Big Ten contracts, you know, I ended up leading our recycling initiatives as a university. So there's a lot of things that I'd never had experience with. Yet there I play and I bet you these are skills that can translate and impacting lives. And how do we do that? And so I wanted to find platforms. I had a marketing background. Now there are things I knew how to do. You didn't know how to do makeup to save my life. I used to call eye shadow I powder. I mean, it took me like an hour in several minutes of tears to, like, not get my eyes glued together, putting my lashes. So patents was a great platform. But then I also felt like it was going to teach me how to speak well from that platform. And if you really want to impact lives, you need to sharpen those skills in 30 seconds. You should be able to tell anybody what you want to do with your life and how you're going to do it quickly and concisely. I think that's important for people to know that to always have an elevator speech because you need to live ready if you want to live with purpose. So I ended up competing for Mrs. International. I got top 10 my first year. And what I did was I stood back as I watched the other girl get crowned, because at that time I thought, well, I'm ready. You know, that was the athlete in me. I'm ready. I'm going to win.   [00:22:06] I didn't realize how ready I wasn't. So I just stood back and I was watching everything unfold on stage. And that's kind of how I learned. If you'll hear this theme over time, as I just learned and invested. So the next year I came back and I won. I wasn't a pageant girl. It had been about 15 years since I had done was as a teenager. And I'd also spent the last decade having babies. I have three children. So I decided to become a professional runner that time, too, because that makes sense. Let's do that. It really set the stage. This is all before American Ninja Warrior. They started to tie in together, but I really wanted to broaden myself to be able to have a broader audience and a broad impact and see how it could uniquely and creatively impact lives. Yeah.   [00:22:59] And it sounds like it. It all sounds very like a path that makes sense, you know, now that you're kind of unpacking it as to what you became, even the public health aspect of it, because, you know, I mean, what you went on to do, which is kind of affect public health. How did you first come into contact or how did American Ninja Warrior enter your radar zone?   [00:23:22] In college, I was roommates with Jesse Graff, which for you as a Ninja Warrior fan and for your kids. She is one of the top female. She she's absolutely amazing. And so people don't really realize we've actually been friends for 17, 18 years now. So we were roommates. I knew she had competed on American inj work. And I had someone tell me all you should do that. So I talked to Jesse and I applied. And the first year I really thought I was going to go out and crush it. Jesse was by my side. She helped me train. She flew out to Nebraska. She was trying to make sure I got ready and she had not competed. That year is actually an off year for her. But I went out and I fell on the very first step. My very first year. And they aired it. Luckily, the girl at this planet. Yep, yep. Yep. Little did we know five years later happened again, but in a much more traumatic way. But I applied the next year for Ninja Warrior and I actually got rejected. And then I applied the next year for Ninja Warrior and I got rejected again. So I was three years into it. And I can't tell you how many people at this point. My journey on the outside. It wasn't making sense to anybody. You're doing pageants for your in races now you're doing American means where and you're getting rejected and yet you're still going for it. Clearly, they don't want you.   [00:24:36] You should give up. And if anybody knows me, they think about my brand. It's never give up. And I believe that with every part of my fiber and my being and my soul and I believe that for people, if you have to know who you are and your passion so much that it's such a part of you that you can tell people, I'm going to continue it. I was not supported at that time. I will just say that it was a really challenging journey to keep going. So four years into it and came back as the top female. So I went from one of the worst to one of the best and the only one who had beat crank it up. And all those people who said you shouldn't do this shit is not right. How did you do it? And so it was just it was really important, as I learned, started to learn as a teenager, that I had to make a choice for my own journey and and also for me, knowing what God wanted for my life and that path and where it was going to go. So Ninja Warrior has been such an amazing platform to reach families, empower women. Bill, people in a real way of overcoming obstacles above and beyond.   [00:25:47] Of course, I remember when you were first the first time I saw you on, and I'm not sure which year it was for you, but I remember when I first saw you on watching it with my little girls. They were we were talking about. They had mentioned your story and they were talking about how you had three young children and you were a single mom. And. And I kind of paused. And the only thing that really big I've I've just met so many prolific, wonderful, amazing women in my life. It wasn't shocking. I just thought, I wonder when she sleeps, because if she's training for this and working and I'm a full time parent as a single parent would be. It seems to me like you would need some kind of help with some of it. What kind of aid did you have during that time period? And can you kind of describe your training routine? Was it similar to training in college? I mean, you have to do kind of design your own training. I would think the circuit, even if they're shared, prolific, you know, passes and things like that on line between the different ninjas, you're designing your your schedule, your training time, your routine. What did life look like during that time period when you went from, you know, unknown to the top female ninja warrior?   [00:26:57] It was really challenging. I, living in Nebraska, do not have any family here. So it was really hard to do it. I mean, there's there's no way to put it. And one time I actually got asked an interview. What do you like about being a single parent? And I didn't realize I was going to react this way, but I about had it like a nervous breakdown in front of them, like no one had ever asked me not. It hit me in such a way that I just I started sobbing. And I looked at them and I said, I hate it. I don't like this like it's not what life's supposed to be like. And they're like, just once you take a second, what's different, Krista? Because it was it was an in-person interview, actually, by the TV show. And I don't think they realize, you know, the number one I told the show, I never want to promote divorce. It was the hardest decision I ever had made. And I can't express enough the amount of counsel that I had surrounding that. If you can really work it out, why in both parties are willing. I want to encourage. I just need to say that now. And number two, it wasn't training like an athlete because I it was really hard to have set schedules. You know, my kids came first. So if I'm dropping off or someone says, hey, we've come have lunch with me today, mom, I forgot my bag. We bring it to school, you know. And then I freelanced for work doing what I could and find sponsorships. And so for me, really, it was the minute they went to bed is when I got to train. You know, if I could fit in an hour during the day or 30 minutes during the day, no one else will. Maybe I can give the rest of it. And tonight. So I didn't have these dedicated training sessions and then tried. The most difficult part for me was I. There is no ninja gym here.   [00:28:44] The entire time time I competed on American injured warrior. So all the equipment I trained on, I got from thrift stores attire I found on the side of a road, a truck tire. Really, if someone wants it, you can make it work. I just had to figure out how to adapt once again and thankfully my kids all of being active. So when I did travel, people notice like I'm a package deal. There's a really hard line in the sand. And if my kids can't be involved, I won't do it. And I have to trust God to, like, say no to some really hard thing sometimes that given the wow, that would be so financially good for the guy. It just might not be the best with your kids around him, like. Well, then it's a. because we are. I mean, you know, as a parent, you get such a short window of time and I'm just not willing to trade that.   [00:29:39] Absolutely. I wonder, though, when you talk about doing it on your own there, not being an engine there, the micro muscles, did you have to learn more?   [00:29:48] Did you study more about getting into because it feels like so looking at some of the obstacles over the years, especially how they've changed and things like that, it feels like you have to kind of fine tune in different regions. Jesse Graf is talking about it. I think a shoulder injury or something, or maybe it was someone else and they were talking about like slowing down their reps of their pull up so that they could get an absolutely perfect form so that the micro muscles and all that whole area would rehab correctly. And I think of in terms of the different obstacles, how would you get your body ready for the task at hand and get to the place that you did so prolifically without testing any of the courses or the activities themselves out? Did you find yourself studying anatomy or were you just doing what you could and hoping that there would be some kind of cross pollination effect?   [00:30:34] There's probably a mix of it. Jesse's always been a huge influence. And even to the point of what you just said, she's actually the one who taught me, hey, this is how you really do a pull up focus on these mechanics. So she's just always been a huge influence and have competed as a ninja.   [00:30:51] But also I think that's where being a track happily came in. I was a hurdler, which is a really it's a technical event. You have to even as you warm up, what's your mechanics go slow. Repetition, repetition, repetition. So repetition was very important for me. And what I learned to do was say flexible, build the muscle groups, especially I'm an older athlete. I mean, people to remember, both ninjas are in their early 20s. I am now thirty nine years old. So I had to make sure I don't want to throw myself eight feet in the air and catch something and rip both of my shoulders up. So that was something that was so important for me to make sure to build all of those groups, the dynamics, the functions. I didn't have a warped wall. Well, what muscle groups am I gonna use in a worthwhile what will most replicate it? And then absolutely, we spent a ton of time on playgrounds. I mean, people want to ninja Werdum, go swing around in a playground. So that was always super fun for us. And then I did have lots of opportunities to get out to ninja gyms as I was starting to speak. My kids will come with me. And so I would train on the road and try to get in some time in competitions. I will say, yeah, there's ways where I could see where it affected me, where I wasn't as fluid or I couldn't be able to cast myself as well on a laschet. And those are just things that eventually an owner of a gymnastics gym here in Lincoln, Nebraska, gave me a key to his gym just so I could try to practice Lachaise. And you can get creative. Yeah, yeah.   [00:32:20] And you have to. And it sounds like you've honed in on that skill your entire life. I'm wondering, you're starting to speak. You know, you're you're starting to compete. You didn't get in then you are. You got in on the walk on line for Ninja Warrior. This is prior to you taking the title. I'm wondering.   [00:32:39] You're starting to do public speaking and things like that. Recovery wise, like I think a lot of ninjas are starting to speak more about this. But in the past, I had a friend who is an Olympic hopeful in gymnastics, and she talked a lot about like the devoutness of her gym, about recovery after meats. And it's the reason why she thinks she went so far and a lot of fellow athletes that didn't have the same focus on that. And I'm wondering, how do you personally come at recovery? Because it kind of plays into your story as it lies now. But back then, when you were just beginning this first few years in seasons and things like that, what was recovery like for you? Like you trained nonstop? And then how long did you spend in recovery? Was there rehabilitation that had to take place? How did that all work for you?   [00:33:25] As a student athlete, it was a high priority. I will say I had to learn for ninja word because I was doing different muscles in different groups. I mean, I spent 10 years turning left and jumping over sticks. So there's a little bit of a different dynamic. But after practice and I think it's one of the reasons when I was a Division one athlete is I was an ice bath. Every day I made sure to do my cool down a stretch to eat right. I hydrated. I got sleep. So translate you had to binge warrior. I struggled to learn what to do, what was right or what my shoulders needed. And there were points where I didn't know when to stop. And now I've learned to listen to my body. But I did get to the points where I hurt my shoulder so that I put on or take off a sports bra was just about excruciating for me. And some days even just lifting my shoulder up. And that's when I started to make sure, as you mentioned earlier, building the muscle groups around, like it's basically building a body of armor around you for when you compete. And then I have to know when to say no on things. You know what? I did just spend eight hours in a car, and this course looks fun. And I want to play with all my friends, but I think I need to say no right now unless I'm dedicated to spending the next forty five minutes to warm up. So you learn. Sometimes the hard way.   [00:34:45] That rotator sounds bad. Not for arms up like that. That's a no. There are a lot of activities that would be limited with that. So I want to get into your kind of the pinnacle of the American ninja where as where as well as the Spartan Games. So for people who are listening that maybe haven't seen the show or been living in a cave somewhere. American Ninja Warrior is this multiple obstacle course. How would you define it if someone was like, I've never heard about what it do? What is that? Whatever you want.   [00:35:17] For American, each word and the one thing I'd say, it's a family friendly show, that is stories of people who are not only overcoming obstacles in their life, but they have an opportunity to do it on a global platform to overcome obstacles, literally physically in person as people cheer them on. And that's what it is. A who we all debate about. This is an injustice for it. Yes, I do believe it is a sport, but it's also also this blend of it's something that you can turn on and, you know, you never have to worry about it with your family. And I've appreciated that as more. But there's these feats of physical strength that you can tell.   [00:36:01] You see it in my eyes when I compete like my knuckles are white. And I'm holding on with everything I have. And you feel it. I think you feel it as the audience member where you're like, oh, just hold on.   [00:36:12] Oh, you can oh, you can do this.   [00:36:15] And then they make it through. And that's like everybody's chairman of the Libyans are with you. And you know that as an athlete, you know that you're part of something that's so much bigger than stepping onto a TV show. And that's such a core responsibility. I think I just took it long there. But when people ask you to talk about it and nerd out a little bit because I love it so much.   [00:36:34] Absolutely. And from that, your family, you're kind of ninja warrior family spilled over into the Spartan Games, right? You were on a team of people that was formerly ninja's.   [00:36:44] Yes, we were Team Ninja for the Spartans show competed for two seasons. It was such a cool experience and I will say things like Spartan or I haven't competed on Titan games. But those are actually more up my alley. I love brute strength, mud, grit. Not that you don't have great ninja. But it's definitely different with Spartan or something like a Titan games. It was more suitable to my comfort zone. Believe it or not, too. Yes. I want to have six people stand on my shoulders and a tilted wall.   [00:37:19] So it's fantastic. It really actually does. I loved it.   [00:37:24] Yeah. It's it's I think it defines a personality type. For sure. You know, and it's it is uniquely different hormones. Like it's the same thing right there. UPS, of course is another very, very different Rehov.   [00:37:34] So different. Yeah. Spartan it was brutal. We were just exhausted. And I think people saw that in our last race. We actually competed back to back nights and got home at seven a.m. and had to be back on set at four p.m. after we competed night after night and then compete again. And yeah, it's we were tired.   [00:37:58] Yeah. It's an indoor as it looks like an endurance game. You know, Ninja Warrior feels like there's a lot of technicalities that can go wrong and and your your run early. But the Spartans, it seems to just leave it all out there on the course, as they say. I'm wondering if so, let's Kleman to you had kind of this now very famous moment in you finished. You know, you became this this titleholder for how far you went up until that point. Can you kind of describe the run? Is it Oklahoma City that that run happened in?   [00:38:30] Oklahoma City in 2019 for American Ninja Warrior.   [00:38:35] It was my fifth year competing in the show officially and I was excited, but I'd also say I was probably the most relax I had ever been. I was really, really intense there before from Minneapolis and my training to the point that maybe overly intense. So going into this year, I thought, you know, I'm just going to really. Soak this in news in God's hands. But on the prelims night had actually fallen and saved myself by like two pinky fingers or I mean something ridiculous. And I didn't realize I could he'll hook my leg up to pull myself up up on the diving boards. But then what happened? Actually, the next night and finals going into it on the same obstacle, the diving boards, I tripped and I face planted. And with the diving boards are is there pieces of steel that are covered for traction, traction, not padding. And what that caused was a brain injury. So we didn't know it at the time. And I don't remember most of my run. I've tried to get parts and pieces of it and I got to experience it with the rest of the world. So I didn't see it before it aired. No one had video of it. The producers, you know, they don't share film with us. We don't get to see our runs or how they edited it.   [00:39:57] So watching it was really emotional. I watched it first in public. There was a watch party and I tried to actually not really watch it. And then immediately after I was in Virginia, I went to my hotel room and I watched it.   [00:40:10] I just cried because, as I said, I had spent the last oh, it was four or five months as an outpatient at a brain trauma hospital in about 20 hours a week of rehab, doing speech and cognitive physical PTO t. I ended up having a psychologist or a therapist and then vision. So pretty much almost everything that they had in the unit was a part of my life. And so those emotions were just felt so strongly because not only did I go to the E.R. that night from set, but I went to the E.R.. That's. Oh, Thursday, I had a friend come and check on me because I don't even remember driving home for no Oklahoma City, one of my friends found someone else to drive. Me and my kids got us home. I was another person we had been training with. And there was this terror van and the leg. The last thing I remember is being on stage for the starting line. And then I was standing in my kitchen in Lincoln, Nebraska. So it was so surreal and confusing. And I finally got to see why I had been so miserable, so to speak, for so many months and. Then just started to talk about it because I didn't realize how many people are actually affected by being in by brain injuries, but the number two, it also forced me to stop in such a real way and think about how fast I was going in every area of my life. And I can say right now, I think it's actually a gift. I had a brain injury because I didn't prioritize self care. You asked me about that. How how were you a single mom? I was training 40 hours a week, working for an hour as weak as parenting, you know, 40 hours a week. I, I did. I was living in a constant state of survival mode. And I think it was such mercy and grace that God's like, I love you too much to let you keep living like this. So it's it's such a gift for me today to slow down and make sure. I continue to build in arrests and slowing down and say no to something so I can allow for other yesses in my life.   [00:42:28] And I think that sometimes as simple or maybe even trite as it sounds, slowing down can require more discipline. You know, for someone who is prolifically moving through life, young parents, people who just are constantly juggling things, actually taking space and holding still and really continuing thought through, thinking about things like self care can be much more nerve wrenching, you know, than running a marathon because it's, you know, motion stays in motion is constant and things like that.   [00:43:01] But when you stop and you question can be a daunting place, even if you're doing well, you know perfectly well with all of these wonderful titles and this incredible career to sit and actually really question yourself and re identify and revisit those conversations. Is it can be a lot, you know, to handle brain injuries. I just spoke off the record. I do have a colleague and friend who suffered from one. And I think you mentioned in a prior interview that I read of yours that it's incredibly painful because it's not seen on the outside frequently that the individual looks incredibly normal. But the suffering on the inside and the therapy is particularly with my colleague and friend. She post and recovery from the actual therapies themselves sometimes would take her a day and a half, you know, just to kind of reorient it was a very painful recovery process. It wasn't just laying in bed, taking time, getting well. You know, all of that was amazing. Has have you incorporated that kind of dialog and conversation into your public speaking now? Do you think it will change how you go on to relate to your audiences and what you do?   [00:44:17] It absolutely has impacted it in a great way were a lot of people. They want to know how can I survive something traumatic? There's a lot more to my story.   [00:44:29] People want to dig deeper. It's probably on some interview somewhere. But I had a history of trauma from the time I was like five years until adulthood of different things that happened from rape, assault, abuse. And so that brain injury. It really literally forced me to sit still in the very first day I ever had and sit still, which I can't tell you the time I remember doing it before, that I legitimately can't tell you what I told you. I rested before that I screamed and it was so scary. And the next day I went into the hospital and told them, I think I'm on the verge of an emotional breakdown. But I said it in such a casual way they didn't know what to do. And I was like, listen, I'm not vulnerable. I'm an athlete. I'm trying to tell you I need help. And I will absolutely advocate for that in such a real way to not burn both candlesticks, you know, from both ends, I guess. Success is success. But if you can't have peace in your life, it's really all for naught. Kind of is what I believe. And I echo with what your friend said. For me, my vision was the hardest hit. I hit on the right side of my face. It affected some of my nerves and my eyes didn't communicate with each other. So it forced me to not be on my phone. I couldn't even answer an email. I couldn't look at technology. I physically couldn't handle the scroll of a screen. I had to reach out and ask for help. Being away from my technology. Yes, away from my emails. Gifts in it. It really restructured my entire life. And I know I still do have effects. I talk about it a lot less because I get that people say, Oh, you're so strong.   [00:46:13] Can you come back?   [00:46:14] You look amazing. And I just want to be healthy. I can't focus on that. I called the producers before I told anyone else I was going to announce. I said, you know, this is what I'm going to say. I'm so grateful for American injurious. But like, I'm I can't even think about anything beyond recovery right now because I was at the point where I was literally losing my vision. I wasn't having double vision, but my eye therapy was so aggressive I would go home and not be able to see for forty five minutes. And that was Harry. So I, I want to make sure that first and foremost, I'm the most physically healthy mom I can be because I can go out and train like I know to train. Know how to do well. But if I do that and then get hurt again, then. So my health is such a Purdie and I want to advocate for that for all people to build that in behalf phones. It's great. So, um.   [00:47:12] Yeah. And it's honorable. I think that, you know, this is the athletic spirit is celebrated, but sometimes I think just one piece of it celebrated just that moment on top of the mountain. You know, sometimes maybe the training and the climb up. But there's another piece of that.   [00:47:28] You know, there's another there's always growth. And I think that the story of the athlete that has for any reason, injury or not, kind of hit the the moment where they're they're moving on to something else. It's another pivot, you know, that that's equally as as celebratory. The story is, you know, continuing. You're not ceasing to exist because you're not on American Ninja Warrior 20, 21 or whatever. And to that end, I want to ask you, what is your your future? Have you thought about the next one to three years? I know a lot of times in recovery, even a therapist will encourage you to just keep your sights on this one goal. And so if if it isn't out there, I don't want to encourage you to not to have one. But have you thought about, professionally speaking, more any of those types of things for the next one to three years for yourself? What do you see?   [00:48:16] Within the last couple weeks, I've definitely set goals for what the next one to three years look like. I will say before that. That's the number one question I got from everybody when I spoke. What's next? What's next? What's next? And I had to be OK telling everybody. I don't know yet. And that was my answer for awhile. My next thing is to not have a next thing. And I think that's actually what is going to set me up best for what will eventually be a next. And that sounds like a big tongue twister riddle, but it was so important to not have a nexus for a little bit and be OK with that. Well, now. Yes. I want to continue and I will continue to speak and engage with people on a global scale, including Girl Scout partnerships. Empowering youth to be healthy. Goal setting individuals. Writing a book is on the table for me. Has been for a long time. I know God told me that for a while that I just need to be able to focus enough to get something specific. But most immediately, I'm actually applying for a master's degree in biblical studies with Colorado, Christian University. I want to know why not get a brain injury and go back to school? That sounds about right. So that's it. I am going to be focusing on is I'm going to be searching for scholarships to go back to school as a single mom and get a master's degree. I think it will be important for my kids to be a part of that process as well. And then I think it will honestly help me as a TBI survivor. It is going to be challenging. I do still have cognitive challenges, but I think it's going to be healthy to face them. I don't want to live in fear of them or worry or or be scared. I think that I'll continue to need the right people to support me as I try to get a masters degree. And it's going to be exciting. And then I'll have something I'll be launching in the next couple months. I'm partnering with some media teams. So I think ultimately my goal this is going to sound weird is to like a race myself and not have Maggi Thorne be the brand. But something else exists that last beyond me that can pass on as a legacy for other people where it becomes their own thing. And they're not just how I go to your page and it's so inspiring. Yes, I love it and I appreciate it. What can I help other people make their own? And that becomes their legacy within themselves. So that's a goal.   [00:50:44] That's a beautiful thing. I love that. And I love legacy. And I think it's I think as parents, you get to a point where you start to actually think about it. You know, you have this this breath. And I say the second, you know, you come up as a parent. You know, when you the toddlers are sleeping through the night. You have like a year. And you start saying, what am I going to do with my life? And then you immediately become enveloped with, like, what's my legacy? What am I leaving on Earth? There's never, ever an expectation or break for me anyway. And so I. Yours is beautiful. I love that. We're running out of time. But I do want to ask you, Maggi. What do you if if you ran up to someone next tomorrow and safe social distance at a Gardiner Park. And it was a young woman and she said, listen, we have a friend in common.   [00:51:33] And they said, I've got to come talk to you. I've had this wonderful career as a student athlete. I then spent the next decade involved in this area that at the beginning I didn't necessarily have the training for became prolific at. And I was very proud of all of those things. But I'm going to actually pivot now and do this wonderful, you know, obstacle course slash television show and hope for the best. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?   [00:51:58] I would ask her or him what, number one? Why do you want to do it? What's your purpose behind it? Because the training and commitment for it is so hard. If that is it behind it, it's gonna make it all that more difficult. So I'd really want to know that first and have a compass of Wohlsen here. Here's where you go from there. And being able to make it, it's 24/7 training. And what I mean with that is your rest is training your waters, training your nutrition. The people you surround yourself with is training. It's a full time commitment. It's not something you turn on and off during the day to the point that I stop wearing high heels for a while because it was to impact like my legs couldn't handle it. And again, I'm older. But there's those three things. Why do you want to do it? Letting them know it's a full time commitment and then building a really solid foundations are able to get the experience and have the best experience possible. As if if I think if you go into it and I'll say this for anybody, anything you go into. If your expectation is is just to win, I think you walk away with a loss. You have to walk into it with purpose and passion, because if you don't win, but you still know, you give everything you've got. That's a victory. Absolutely.   [00:53:31] Yeah. A thousand percent, I think with everything in life, two measurements are, you know, first of all, usually not constructed by the person competing in them. So developing your own son's very solid. So loosely, I have no one know your purpose in why training is hard. So you need to know where all of your passion and purpose is coming from and what they are identified. Number two, training is 24/7, 365, encompassing all aspects of your life. Remember that. And number three, build a solid foundation for the best experience possible. And the goal isn't just to win. I love. That's why you're the pro. Good job. Thank you very much.   [00:54:08] I'm so thankful that you spoke with us today. Maggi, we're out of time. But I just wanted to say again, I really appreciate everything that you've you've given us today. And I know that there's a lot of personal narrative tied into your professional story. And I really do appreciate your candor and honesty.   [00:54:23] Thanks, Patricia. I appreciate what you're doing to educate, empower and equip people across the nation and globally.   [00:54:29] Absolutely. For everyone listening, we've been speaking with Maggi Thorne. She's an athlete, motivational speaker. You can find out more regarding everything that she is doing on her Web site. W w w dot. Maggi Thorne, dot com. That's m a g.g i t h o r and e dot com.   [00:54:48] Thank you for giving us your time today and until we speak again next time. Remember to stay healthy, stay safe and honest. But yourself. Slainte.  

Today I sit down with Marisa Moon; Speaker, Certified Health Coach and Intermittent Fasting Instructor. Marisa is a Certified Primal Health Coach and creator of the online course “Intermittent Fasting Freedom”. Marisa teaches the most flexible intermittent fasting lifestyle to help busy adults forget the rules and put an end to the confusion around what's healthy. Named 1 of 10 influential health coaches to follow in 2020, she is also a fasting coach for LIFE mobile apps, the host of the Foundation of Wellness podcast, and writer for The Primal Health Coach Institute blog.   This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with speaker, certified health coach and intermittent fasting instructor Marisa Moon, key points addressed were the core tenants of her one on one health coaching, as well as Marisa's online course called intermittent fasting freedom. We also discussed Marisa's opinions and advice regarding the fasting communities and some of the pitfalls she feels many people new to fasting suffer with. Stay tuned for my fascinating talk with Marisa Moon.   [00:00:37] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas in an effort to explore the world of fasting from a variety of angles. This dialog is meant to develop a more complete story about the information, research, personal stories and culture in and around the science and lifestyle of fasting. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Vegan life and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:29] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Marisa Moon. Marisa is a speaker, certified health coach and intermittent fasting instructor. You can find out more about her. Everything we talk about today, as was Marisa herself on her Web site, w w w dot Marisa moon dot com. That is m a r i s a m o o n dot com. Welcome, Marisa.   [00:01:52] Hey, it's great to be here, Patricia. Thank you for having me.   [00:01:55] Absolutely. And for everyone listening, I will give you a quick bio on Marisa before I start peppering her with questions. But before we do that, a quick roadmap for today's podcast. We'll first ask Marisa to kind of unpack her personal fasting history and narrative before she begins to unpack the work that she does regarding fasting. And we'll then look towards her online course that she has called intermittent fasting freedom. We will also discuss elements of her podcast that she does based on the Foundation of Wellness podcast, which is discusses a lot of elements of fasting. And we'll get into the nuts and bolts, the logistics, as well as the ethos of that. I also want to discuss some of her philosophies that she has on her website, based around five elements of the approach that she looks at and kind of walks her clients through. And then I'll get into some of the specifics. I'll ask about if there's client profiles and things of that nature will wrap up the entire podcast with our Rapid Fire Questions section based on everybody who is listening and writing in in honor of letting you know that we hear you. We're going to ask Marisa some direct questions that you had for her and people of her expertize. So, as promised, a quick bio on Marisa share. Marisa Moon is a certified primal health coach and creator of the online course, Intermittent Fasting Freedom. Marisa teaches the most flexible, intermittent fasting lifestyle to help busy adults forget the rules and put an end to the confusion around what's healthy. Named one of 10 influential health coaches to follow in 2020, she is also a fasting coach for life. Mobile Apps and the host of Foundation Wellness Podcast and a writer for the Primal Health Koch Institute blog. So that's Marisa. I know that that is a very, very condensed version of what you do with your bio. And before we unpack everything that you're doing and all of the resources that you have, I'm Marisa Moon .COM. I'm hoping you can kind of tell us a little bit about your journey, your your personal history with fasting and kind of what brought you to launching your company?   [00:04:04] Yeah, I was probably in my late twenties, around twenty nine years old, and I had terrible IBS. I didn't know it was IBS at the time. I was just like, what the heck is going on in my gut? And it's really embarrassing. And I was determined to find answers and I somehow I don't know how far of looking to podcast's and I found a nutrition podcast dishing up nutrition. I think they're still in production led by these amazing dietitians and nutritionists telling me things I had never heard before about, you know, gluten sensitivities, your microbiome eating healthy fats like butter. I was like, wait a minute, because I did not eat fat and I did not even know what gluten was and I didn't know I had a microbiome, etc. They just sent me down this beautiful rabbit hole and gave me the confidence to attempt a gluten free diet to see if that was what was causing my IBS. And sure enough, it was. And all that brought me to the paleo ancestral world. And I learned while the way that I am eating now are trying to eat now is like a paleo diet. And it was just kind of like a match made in heaven for me and all made so much sense. And I was like, why is nobody talking about this and why are we not waking up to the fact that our food system has changed so much that it's destroying us. And that passion led me to blogging about my gluten free journey, my longevity kitchen dot com. And I started collaborating with some really incredible companies like Hi Vibe Superfood Usery in Chicago and my six method of really incredible weight loss program. And over time, I realized, wow, I could make this into a career. At first it was really for fun. And I became a certified health coach with the Primary Health Coach Institute. And fasting came into my life early in that journey because I was diagnosed with ADHD in my late 20s. And when I kept learning about it in the paleo literature and ancestral health literature, at first I was like, I would never do that.   [00:06:18] I love eating. Like, why would I ever skip a meal? That's crazy. Food means so much to me. I mean, I know it means a lot to everyone, but I'm like, that's like my hobby is food, you know, cooking.   [00:06:28] Cooking shows, reading cooking magazines. I went to culinary school just for fun. That's how much I love it. So I was like, OK. I don't think I'm going to skip meals on purpose. But then I started connecting the dots and I was like, wow, this is really tremendous for the brain. And I was always looking for natural remedies for my EGD brain. And I was like, I really skipped breakfast anyways on accident. So let me just try this thing out. And it was like perfect for me. It was exactly what I needed. Gave me that extra edge, that extra available mental energy so that I can be noticeably more productive. And now I really believe that this is an unspoken therapy or natural remedy or support. Like vehicle for ADHD reigns and no one's talking about it.   [00:07:16] Yeah, and it's interesting that it affected you in that way. I think a lot of people come at fasting from a myriad of different ways. But I think that the top one is health and exercising things. Did the paleo diet have a relationship with fasting or did it just. It was that just your gateway into kind of exploring diet as it is, as it helped your IBS and and at the subsequent, like, gluten sensitivity, like, did this go hand in hand or did one lead to the other?   [00:07:46] Well, some of the earliest works in the paleo diet kind of area of health and nutrition, like Mark Sissons Primal Blueprint or NORGAARD Goddesses, primal body, primal mind. They all mention the importance of intermittent fasting and how we are just constantly eating in modern times. And our body is not prepared for this constant, laborious process of digestion all day long. And how do we expect to burn body fat if we never allow our body to go without food like our ancestors always have? So even though it made logical sense to me when I was reading it at the time, I just it was kind of intimidating. I didn't even think find it appealing, you know.   [00:08:33] Yeah. I mean, I ended fasting. I think you've spoken on a few of your podcasts about like, you know, it's a very abrasive term. You know, it speaks of like deprivation and punishment to a lot of people. You know, it just doesn't have the most positive connotation.   [00:08:48] Whereas when you look at it as resting and allowing your body to take care of these other forums, it seems much more genteel, I think. And what you do in educating, you know, your clients for fasting when you personally started out, do you recall your favorite form? And I also want to get into the different fast that you personally have experienced. Have you done. Oh, Mad's 24 16. Like what? Which ones did you start out with and which ones have you experimented with?   [00:09:14] Well, in the beginning I just didn't care about the rules then, and I don't care about them now. And I think that's how I ended up in my own lane and this whole fasting arena. I just it didn't. It was never going to work for me. If I had strict rules, it wouldn't. And I didn't understand why there needed to be rules anyway. I was like, I feel great now. I'm doing it at a different time every day. I feel great. Some days I'm not doing it. Some days I am. Why does all that other stuff matter? And it just worked for me because 80 years we like novelty. We don't like routine. We don't like anything too ritualistic or predictable. And perhaps that's why I realized maybe that's not the key to it. And so to answer your question, I have and I still do. Changed my fasting routine constantly based on my needs, my social circumstances, my mood, my energy levels. The food that's in my fridge doesn't doesn't really matter. I've the longest I've gone without any food at all. Our 24 hour fast. And I've done five day low sugar juice cleanses. And those are awesome, too. They included bone broth. They were with high vibe Chicago. And I really I don't find it appealing to do longer fancy. No, I know it's the results are tremendous. And I have clients who like doing them. It's just perhaps for me, something I don't want to do when I'm older and I really want to experience that almost like spiritual or personal challenging kind of thing. I mean, right now I'm like, dude, 24 hour fast. I feel like a champ on me. Yeah. You know, you feel great. But then you're also like, wow, I don't need food. That's amazing. Like, I really don't need food. Right.   [00:11:03] The relationship and I think a lot of what you're talking about with your own personal journey is it's it's an interpersonal dialog. Right. It's not just on paper. It's not just something written out. I think you start to have a very different conversation with yourself, you know, over fasting and what we have been taught, you know, inadvertently or straight up about diet and eating and, you know, and how those were all fueled by industries that had no business talking to us about her family, things of that nature. So I think that that is it's a key point. I'm curious about that. When you get into. I want to kind of unpack your site and things like that. And a lot of what you do is, you know, this consultancy and coaching. Do you have a narrative where you begin talking with your clients about, like, you know, having an interpersonal dialog? I kind of I feel like there should be an intake form. Like, how do you feel about food, like all of these different things so you can kind of gauge and measure wherever one is at. Can you talk to us a little bit about that process?   [00:12:02] Well, there's always an intake form, even when someone just wants to hop on a quick strategy call, which is what I call them. It's like a quick consultation. They're not sure if they want a health coach. They think they want a health coach. They don't even know what the health coaches and. So just a brief form that I asked them for that call is what's not working in your life right now regarding your health and well-being? What's your vision for health and well-being? What top three things you want to change in your life regarding your health and well-being? And do you cook? And just a couple other questions. And then that kind of gives me an idea. Are there goals, like really pressing for them? Are there goals like really clearly defined? Are they ready to commit to such a change? And. Are they are they dealing with challenges that I can help them with? Because I can't help everybody. I'm not even qualified to help certain people. I know what I can do. And the whole point of that strategy calls to see if we're a match. And then if they do decide to work with me as their coach, there's a way, a longer intake form, because I need to know so many details about their life, their support system, what motivates them was worked in the past. What hasn't the the things that they crave, the foods that they miss or love, what their food experiences were like growing up. If they have any negative thoughts around food or ever had negative body image issues or things that they feel like are standing in their way of progress with their health goals. There's so many things that I get into on that form so that when it's time for the sessions and I'm working with them one on one, I already know which things from the intake form would be nice to discuss and go deeper on. But actually coaching calls are really led by the client because I want to know what you want to work on. When we get on the phone, I want to know. So, Patricia, what are you looking forward to talking about today or working on this week? Because you know what you need to do or what's weighing on your shoulders or what you think about every single day when you wake up and when you go to bed. And that's what we need to work on first, because it will be the most rewarding and it will be the most motivating and we can start moving forward in it in a more confident direction.   [00:14:12] Nice. Yeah. And to that end, you have. I like your your site actually really does a great job of describing your philosophy and the nature. I think a lot of coaches struggle ironically with really conveying like the parameters in which they'll be functioning under and on your side. You have these five elements. You've got diet, gut, brain, sleep, mobility and stress. And within those, you've passed out even further terms. But you present it as this kind of, you know, harmonious environment, all of which affects each other and things of that nature. And I like that because it seems very holistic. It seems like your piece of the individual out when you start advising people and helping them and coaching them and talking with them about fasting, whatever version that looks like for them. What area of those five do you find fasting affects most quickly?   [00:15:03] Well, that's a good question. First, I just want to say I don't tell my clients to fast unless they want to fast. So you would think that because I'm a fasting coach, I would be telling everyone to fast. But I really don't know. It just depends if they're dropping the bread crumbs that make me think that's ideal for them or will work well for them. Otherwise, you know, some people just come to me for fasting, coaching, and I love that. Now, how that affects which areas regarding sleep, brain function, gut diet, stress is so hard to say because it depends on the individual. Almost everyone feels freer right away, which is crazy.   [00:15:48] You would never think that you feel freer when someone's telling you you can't have something. But it's like one less thing to do in the morning, one less thing to worry about if you're doing it right.   [00:15:57] And it's kind of like, good. There's no decision making there. I don't have to worry. Like, should I have this or should I have that? Do I need to cook? Do I need to go shopping? It's like so much easier. And then from that, you get the confidence boost, you get the energy boost, and it makes you start thinking about other things like, wow, what I thought about food or eating or breakfast was wrong or. You know, misguided. What else do I need to learn? What else can we do? Let's do more.   [00:16:24] And a lot of people aren't even ready for fasting more than 12 hours a day until they fix their stress, until they fix their sleep. And I personally went through a bout of chronic fatigue that was so debilitating I couldn't even, like, stand up for longer than five minutes without feeling like I got to put my arm and body weight on the countertop to support me and constantly taking naps throughout the day. It was great. I thought I was losing my mind. I thought there was some Romi and I mean, there was something wrong with me. But ultimately, if you don't have your sleep figured out, that is already such a huge burden on the body in so many ways, it just affects everything that you do.   [00:17:09] And without that being something that you prioritize or start to improve, your diet is not going to be giving you the changes that you hear everybody else is experiencing. Your exercise program is not going to be giving you the results that everybody else is getting. And your stress is going to be worse. Your gut is going to be worse. Your brain's going to be worse. And so that's why those things are all on one holistic kind of graph. It's it's inevitable that one will always suffer because of the way our lives are in the modern world. But they all need your attention at one point in your life or another. Otherwise, you're wasting your time and energy on things that we'll never really realize. Right.   [00:17:56] Yeah, absolutely. I'm wondering the online course. So you've got this health focus for clients. It's interpersonal, this coaching. But the online course with intermittent fasting freedom. Can you give us, like, some of the core tenants? First of all, how long does it last? Is it is it based on live episodes like the structure of it? And then also kind of the core tenants that it's meant to deliver to the recipient?   [00:18:22] Yeah, well, I called it intermittent fasting freedom because the whole purpose is to free someone from dieting that sucks. And just finally create a lifestyle that makes sense for you, helps you achieve the life you imagined and feels like it makes sense and something you want to continue. And the course is a multimedia course. It's got videos, slideshows, and it's got text based modules and tons of worksheets.   [00:18:51] For me, worksheets are so important because I'm not there with you to kind of personalize this journey and understand your personal challenges necessarily because I'm not coaching you one on one.   [00:19:03] You're taking this online, although you do have contact with me throughout the course and can leave comments and questions for me, etc.. The worksheets help you kind of work through a lot of these things, like, for instance, in the very beginning, everyone goes on a 21 day carbohydrate reduction phase. It's nothing like low carb. It's nothing like HITO. It's just more realistic for the body so that you're not requiring so much insulin production and you're not addicted to carbohydrates.   [00:19:31] So everyone goes under one hundred thirty grams of carbs for 21 days. And in that process, we have to talk about a lot of things, the worksheets, rock walking through foods that spin you out of control, foods that you feel like you can eat in moderation. We go through circumstances in your life, places that you go or people that you're around that trigger those cravings, an appetite that are out of control. And slowly together, we learn a lot about fasting. In the meantime, we start twelve hour fast just to see how that feels, because if you can't do twelve hours, it's a sign that your metabolism needs a little while to fix the mess that you've made over the years. And everyone starts experimenting with 14 to 16 hours to kind of find their sweet spot, because I don't think anyone should be trying a 16 eight or an 18 six if they don't already feel really good at the 15 hour mark or the 14 hour mark.   [00:20:25] And there's just no rush that we're talking about, something that could pay off for the rest of your life. And it is already going to be paying off when you're doing twelve hours, when you're doing 13 hours, when you're doing 14 hours, you're gonna feel it. And that's why you're going to want to jump in. All matter. Jump in the 18 six. But I teach everyone really the signs to look for. I mean, even just as women, some of us can't do that so fast. It just doesn't come naturally to us as it does to managers jumping sixteen, eight or 18, six. And if it's affecting your menstrual cycle or if you're especially hungry during your ovulation phase, these are important biological signals that are happening to remind you of what really matters. And if we don't have that intuitive relationship with fasting, it'll be just like every other diet we've tried that we quit in the end.   [00:21:12] Right. Miserably, too. I think that, though, the worst part about failed diets are ways of trying to obtain health for any reason, weight loss, you know, disease, abrasion, things of that nature is that when you lose it, something you kind of leave more dejected than you ever came into it. There's that added horrifying aspect.   [00:21:35] And I'm sorry. I just want to say that I think the fasting industry does that to a lot of people, too, because you join a Facebook group that's for mad or you see everybody says you got to do 18 six or you're not going to get autophagy and you can't do it. And you feel like a failure or you feel like you're not doing a good enough or you want to have some cream in your coffee and everyone's telling you you're not really lose weight. Is that going to happen? And that's not true. I see it all the time. You will still lose weight if you might have a different route, a different path to get there. It might take longer.   [00:22:06] I mean, there are just so there is so much flexibility and fasting. I wish more people were talking about it because that's what will help us share it with the world.   [00:22:15] Yeah, I agree. I think that that's true. And it's funny to talk about flexibility and fasting because, again, even with my what I think is a storied history with it, you know, my initial thought is black and white, open or closed.   [00:22:29] You know, you're fasting. You're not. And I think you're right there. If there isn't flexibility, then it won't be appropriate for the masses. It will only be for a very Taipei, you know, individuals like myself who are aren't scared at that prospect. And I don't think that it should exist that way because not just between genders and and all of those things, but we're all so varied and storied, you know, lifestyle, ethnicity, gender, all of these things vary from every single person to the next. And there's got to be flexibility within it.   [00:22:57] You know, all black or white thinkers, like we're all all or nothing. So many of us are like, if I can't do it the best, I'm not going to do it at all. Or people just don't fast on the weekends because they can't do the 18 six on the weekends. And I'm like, what about 14?   [00:23:12] What's the other one, 10, 14 time? What about Pat? That's still good. It's better than not fasting at all. Because trust me, Monday is going to be a lot harder when all you've been doing is eating and drinking on weekend. Oh.   [00:23:24] Absolutely. And that actually ties into a lot of what I want to discuss about trends and things that you've seen over your clients and things of that nature going back into a fasting lifestyle after not, as you mentioned, being difficult. But before we get to that, I want to look at your podcast.   [00:23:41] And I just want it unpacked for everyone listening. It's called the Foundation Wellness Podcast. And really quickly, just some logistics. When was it started? What was the impetus and how many do you release a month or a week?   [00:23:55] Well, the foundation of wellness is something I created just about three years ago. I can't believe it's been that long and I've wanted to do one forever. But I knew that I wouldn't be consistent with it or have like the ongoing motivation or confidence to really realize this dream. If I didn't have a co-host and through working with High, I met a registered dietitian, Jessica Doga, who I adore and is still my best friend today. And she helped me in the first couple years of the podcast co-host it. And it was a great dynamic because we each offered something the other didn't. We have opposite personalities and voices and it was just such a great way to kick off the show. And the concept of the show was something I always wanted. The Foundation of Wellness is really about offering listeners a refreshing take on diet and lifestyle that helps to diffuse the intimidation factors about so many things around dieting and wellness. And then also just being really relatable. That's so important because so many of the nutrition and wellness podcasts are like sometimes even over my head and I'm in the field and it's like sounds like everyone's got something to prove. And I'm like, well, who are we really talking to? I want to talk to people who might need a health coach one day. I want to talk to people who are frustrated and but they're still looking for answers because they're on the edge, man. They're like this cause they're like, I know something is out there that can make me feel better. I just haven't found it yet. But, you know, they could give up at any time. So many people do. And so I hope the foundation of wellness makes learning about health and wellness fun and also feels relatable. And I think we've we've begun to achieve that. We published shows every single week until I got to run the 80th episode or or something. And now I'm just trying to keep up do it all myself. I finally hired an editor and so that helps a lot. I was doing all the production myself and the promotions, graphics, everything. And it's hard. It's hard when you have a business that you're running to because I wasn't making any money on the park, as it were. I was literally just to provide a library of content for my audience, followers and clients.   [00:26:08] Nice. Yeah, it is. It's a lot of work. I think that people are discovering that somewhere. I feel like about a year ago it got advised on some massive Tony Robbins kind of platform where everyone was advised that everyone started podcast because 90 percent of the people that bring me on their podcast, you know, are talking about, you know, how difficult it is and and asking me to speak to it. And I was like, yeah, I never thought it was going to be easy. But I think that a lot of people go into it thinking it's just this very simple platform. There's so much post-production work and preproduction. If you're doing one well with research and things of that nature, it is. It's a labor of love, even if you're making money off of it. I've never heard there's very few that are actually making like parts of America, like these kinds of, you know, massive figures off of it. And that's what I love about it. It's, you know, it's information sharing and things of that nature. How many do you so do you shoot to release one a week or is it just kind of varied? Given your business schedule?   [00:27:03] Well, right before the pandemic, it was still once a week. And I slowly had to figure out, you know, how am I going to keep managing everything like I'm in school right now for the second level certification at the Private Health Coach Institute to qualify for the board certification exam. And I realize I just can't keep doing it all. And so now, you know, I've told my listeners a couple times through the pandemic, like it's been hard for me. I even went through a stage of depression. I didn't know what was going on. My husband's an emergency room physician. I didn't know what to expect and I had to work from home. All of a sudden, my Internet sucks at home. It was just too many changes, like for me too fast and too many unknowns. And in that I told my podcast listeners, like, the only thing like I truly have control over is the podcast. And I feel like I need to be more reasonable with my expectations regarding that. And so now I'm just kind of there's always gonna be at least one or two a month, always right now, even while I'm in school. But if I feel like I need to be satisfied with two a month right now, because once a week is just not going to happen. And I just went through like my long advance booking of guests. And so if I'm creating the content myself or I have to find, I guess there's like this whole nother, you know, amount of work that needs to happen. So right now, the. Expect to hear from me once or twice a month.   [00:28:24] Yeah, and it's great. I like how candid you are. I've listened to several of your podcasts and you mentioned, you know, this depression. And one of your episodes very, very candidly lays out this feeling of depression and and, you know, kind of working through that moment with your husband and things like that. And I think it's important because particularly with fasting and all dietary research, it doesn't exist on paper. It exists in a living organism. You know, that we call human beings. And so when you when you go to correlate or translate something that's being studied on paper, I theorized on paper and you apply it to a living creature, you have to have the flexibility that you're talking about and the authenticity to experience, you know, depression or anxiety which the world over, you know, has been suffering through these things. And so I really appreciate that you have that very transparent lens for your audience. You're able to kind of walk through it. It's I think it's very unique and really necessary. I'm wondering as you've gone along. So we had a lot of move. Rapid fire questions are coming up and we have a lot of people that really want coaches to be asked with fasting coaches and things like that. A lot of what you speak to, which is the particulars of someone being an individual. And so I want to start off with a couple of my questions and then we'll get into the rapid fire. But you've had because you deal with people on this very level, you have, you know, your podcast where you advise you have this consultancy and coaching with one on one. And then you also have these online resources and classes. So you've come across people on a myriad of different platforms. And I'm wondering if you yourself have kind of recognized trends or anything like that that you can speak to different client profiles like, you know, people who prior to the pandemic, of course, work nine to five struggle in these areas, more with fasting as opposed to those that don't front that women and fathers of mothers and fathers of young children. You know, the fasting can vary for them. Do you have any, like, kind of summaries of different client profiles for fasting that you can proffer up for us today?   [00:30:27] Yeah, you know, I kind of wish I took a minute to gather these thoughts because it's such a great question and I need to work on that. But I just hear you give a couple examples was perfect because it triggered a few memories for me, like people with small children that have a really hard time with fasting because they're constantly around children snacks, which are often not even the foods they usually will eat like goldfish crackers, pretzels and just cookies and things that they know are not really going to contribute well to their goals.   [00:31:00] But they can't help themselves. They're always around and they're always preparing their children's food and all these snacks in between. And, you know, I've I've learned that if it takes some real determination to make the changes at home that support your fasting goals, because you can have all of that stuff already prepared for your kids the day before while you're in your eating window.   [00:31:26] And you can also get the kids involved once they're at a certain age. I mean, they don't have to be very old to grab their own goldfish crackers and put them in a baggie. And I don't have children, so I'm not usually giving a lot of ice in that area. But over time, I have seen like, hey, there are certain things where we need to put our foot down. Like if your family doesn't want, you stop buying ice cream and donuts and Doritos, but you need that in order to move in the right direction and just kind of get through this phase of breaking those bad habits.   [00:31:56] Then you either need to put those foods in a separate part of the pantry, your own food on a different shelf, put their stuff in that weird cabinet above the fridge that nobody uses and, you know, get it out of the house if you can.   [00:32:09] I mean, if you're the one who buys the groceries and does all the cooking and I say you're the one who makes all the rules. And I think you can put up with your family being annoyed with you for like two weeks. And anytime they want Doritos or pizza or donuts, they can just go get it. You're asking them to please support you in these one or two weeks while you help break the habit. I think that's one of the hardest things. And the people that come to me, I'm starting to notice, have a history of disordered eating in a way where they're like obsessive around dieting and trying to do everything right and feeling like they have to be careful of every single thing. And it starts to become like this fear based relationship with food. And they come to me because I'm so like laidback or flexible in my approach that they're like, I need to get some of that. And then together we start to achieve that somehow.   [00:32:58] I honestly, I can't give you the formula, but all I can say is when you're working with a coach, they start to make you more self-aware and you start to just realize the things that you are doing without any real reason. Besides that, it became a habit. And together they we realized that fasting actually gives them more.   [00:33:21] Um, because like I said earlier, they don't have to think about if they're doing it right or wrong, if they're eating at the right time in the morning or having too much carbs or too much protein or whatever, it's like they're free. Then they can just eat whatever they want within reason when the eating window opens.   [00:33:40] And I think that's surprised me. I didn't imagine that someone with a history of disordered eating would take to fasting in such a healthy way. Well, I'm starting to see that more and more is the case.   [00:33:52] Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're right. I think it could be nothing more than a long novel about, you know, the different observations to be made among those groups of people. There you go. That's your next assignment. Write a book for us. All right. Well, we're back down to our Rapid Fire section of the podcast. And for everyone listening, I want everyone to know that I love you writing in. I adore our audience. Feisty and calm as they come. And I want you to know that I will continue asking your questions to the experts that we have on in the areas that they pertain. So the first question we have is what what for you? What is the most unexpected benefit that you personally received from fasting that you hadn't anticipated?   [00:34:39] My appetite decreases. I didn't even think that was possible.   [00:34:43] I was already kind of achieving that. With the paleo type diet. But food was just always on my mind. Like, that's all I ever wanted was to eat. Even if I had just eight, I wanted to eat again. If somebody else was eating around me and nowadays, I don't remember the last time I said, I'm starving, like, you know how that's just kind of part of our language casually today. Like we're just having eat and we're like, I'm starving. And really, you you just eat lunch like five hours ago, like you're fine. But I don't even get that feeling anymore.   [00:35:11] That was probably the biggest shock to me was that food became less of a, I don't know, dictator of my my day to day mood and appetite. It's just incredible.   [00:35:26] Yeah, it is. And it's crazy how beholden we are to it on so many levels. You can say it, but it feels like the words just put out there don't really convey, you know, what a slave. I think that the majority of people, at least in the United States, are to it. What are the top triggers that for you that you advise, that you find for yourself or for CLY and clients that make fasting difficult?   [00:35:50] So social or it wasn't really clarified, but that the triggers of their delineate fasting.   [00:35:57] Well, honestly, if you haven't slept on a biological level, you're getting hormones that signal for you to eat.   [00:36:05] And for you to eat carbs. And for you eat them very soon. And so you might not even usually crave carbs. But all of a sudden, you find yourself like you just got to have something or you've just got to eat. And that's because you don't sleep.   [00:36:18] And so that's number one. Number two, if you're smelling somebody heat up, their like tacos at work.   [00:36:25] It's going to make you want to eat. If you're scrolling social media and there's food pictures, all in your feed is going to make you want to eat and being extremely emotional or for women,   [00:36:35] Those few days leading up to our period, the day that it actually starts, I mean, we are seeing like a huge plummet in our hormones right before that happens. And it can be such a shock to you emotionally and hormonally in a way that really affects your appetite. And if you don't give into that a little bit and really understand what's going on there, it can even happen in the ovulation phase. Then you start thinking that you screwed up or you just can't do it or you're not good enough. And really what's going on is your brain logy is like, hey, excuse me. Now is not the time for this whole 18 six thing. Can you relax a little bit?   [00:37:11] Yeah, exactly. We had people right in asking the things that enable fasting. So I guess, conversely, the other side of that, do you find that there are techniques that people can easily implement that kind of enable them to do a daily fast?   [00:37:28] Yeah, you have to eat more nutrient dense foods and bring your carbohydrate intake down to something more reasonable for the human body. I mean, never before in history did humans have so much access to readily available shelf stable carbohydrates made from flour and that we could eat anytime day or night.   [00:37:47] And if you're eating those carbohydrates at night, especially, you can have 25 to 50 percent more of an insulin response to the same exact food. If you eat it at night than if you were to eat it during the day. And that means you're packing on more weight and you're gonna crave more food fast, there's going to be more difficult the next day. And fasting come so much easier when you start to cut out some of those flowerings foods and some of the sugar sugary drinks especially. That is a tough habit to break. But man, does it pay off.   [00:38:17] Yeah, there. And this goes along with we had several questions to this train of thought. So we'll I'll ask further. We had people ask if you recommend a specific diet or lifestyle. And also can fasting in European humble opinion, can it be done in this? You know, there's there's people writing in who are vegans. There are people who are trying the paleo. Do you feel like fasting is better suited to one of them? Can it be done under all diets?   [00:38:47] I'm starting to see that it can't be done under all diets, although I just. I guess I don't really get it, so I don't understand how fruitarian is for innocent people who only eat fruit. Are fasting like I just don't get it. But it's not like I really care to get it. It's not my area is not my arena. I believe in an ancestral diet and an ancestral diet is focused on eating the foods that have been available to humans for tens of thousands of years and before civilization. So before we were farming for the masses, before we had refrigeration, grocery stores, convenience. Before that, humans diet consisted of things that you could hunter-gatherer or grow or catch. And that's important because our genes have adapted or evolved to expect certain nutrients and to you know, they can't necessarily deal with the onslaught of toxins and sugar and carbs that we have now. And so I think that that's one of the most important things, is eating a well-rounded, diverse, like variety packed plant heavy. But digestion, friendly diet that is filled with adequate fats from healthy animals so that you can feed the myelin around your cells, especially the brain cells. Man, we really need that. That healthy cholesterol. Cholesterol. We've all been so afraid for so long of eating healthy fats or eating saturated fats or eating cholesterol or animal products. And I believe it's all misguided. And the science has really misled us in a direction that just goes so far from commonsense and human wisdom. And we can really look at all of these time tested lifestyle factors and dietary influences that that are right there for the taking. Like if we just sit and think for a moment what has always worked for humankind. I really believe it's a Whole Foods diet that includes a huge variety of plants and wild or pastured animal foods. Yeah, we have people asking, what is the most common misperception regarding fasting that you come into contact with, that you have to do it perfectly, that it has to be clean and can't be dirty, that you have to do it longer. And that's why you're not losing weight. Like, there's just the rules are let me say this. The people who are screaming the rules are usually one of two things that are really, really science driven people who are just looking at the research. And so they're like, this is what the research says. So this is the way you have to do it. But nutrition research sucks. It's just hard to to consider all the variables that really affect our bodies, reaction to nutrition. And then there's also the other group of people are people who are in the minority.   [00:41:45] They're the two percent of people who can't have stevia during a fast or it's going to trigger insulin. They're the people who can't have any dairy in their coffee because it's going to make them hungrier and make fasting harder. But we're talking about a small percentage of the population or if people have to lose over 100 pounds. Those aren't the people that I work with. Again, I usually don't attract people like that, probably because I didn't get into fasting for my weight loss journey. And I've helped plenty of people lose 40 pounds, 50 pounds. And that's pretty remarkable.   [00:42:15] But I think it might change when your metabolism, you know, your whole metabolic health history is so far from optimal because of years and years of damage or living with obesity or Type two diabetes. I think that really takes a different, more strict approach than the type that I and I believe in. Right.   [00:42:37] Yeah. And finally, we had people talk. You you speak a lot about this as well. Breaking habits of sugar and refined carbohydrates and things like that. Do you have a set group of time that you advise people to break these habits with people like inquire like is it one week away from it? Is it two days away from it? And can fasting help speed that up?   [00:43:03] It depends where it is. I mean, I love this concept by Gretchen Rubin, she calls it abstainer or moderator and what she's getting at. She's habits. And happiness expert. And she explored that some people can eat certain things in moderation. And that's what we've all been taught, like Jews in moderation. You can have it in moderation, but some of us can't.   [00:43:22] It depends on the food. So I teach my clients to go through this whole abstainer moderator worksheet that makes them think like which things actually spinning out of control and make you like have an eating frenzy and dream about the food every single day from that point forward. Or which ones do you feel better when you have just a bite or just a piece? And just having that permission makes you have more control. And that is moderation.   [00:43:46] Now, for me, I can't eat French fries in moderation. You got to be kidding me. I can not. OK. So I just don't eat them. I'm better off abstaining from French fries personally, like I'll have them on my birthday or like for a big celebration. You know, every few months. But the day that I have those fries grama be dreaming about those fries the next day, I want to every single day that follows. And so I know I can't have them my reason, but I can have ice cream in moderation. I can have, you know, like a sweet drink in moderation. Now, once you figure that out about yourself, you can see where you find the freedom.   [00:44:24] Do you find the freedom from abstaining or do you find the freedom for moderation? And then you really have to probably go at least two weeks of breaking a habit that is so ingrained.   [00:44:35] And it's easier than you think because it's not always just about getting rid of it. It's like what triggers the habit? Where are you when you do that habit? Are you eating popcorn every single night after dinner because you go sit on the couch and you watch your show, just go watch your show in a different room, use your phones that you have to use both hands and your hands aren't free to eat popcorn. Do that for two weeks. Go for a walk instead.   [00:44:57] And before you know it, you broke that habit. And is it gonna be harder? Someone's eating popcorn right next to you. Yeah. But I mean, within reason, it's totally doable and easier than people think.   [00:45:08] Yeah, I agree. And I think you're right, it's an interpersonal dialog. Along with this theorist about, you know, moderation versus abstaining. I agree. Well, Marisa, so we're out of time. But I want to say thank you so much for giving us your time and your expertize today. I really appreciate it.   [00:45:23] Oh, yeah. It's been a blast. Thank you for letting me go on and on about the things that I'm passionate about. It's really nice being here always.   [00:45:31] I appreciate it as well. Your transparency and just your honest rhetoric is is so wonderful and necessary in these areas, in these times and for everyone listening. Thank you for giving us your time today. We've been speaking with Marisa Moon. She's speaker, certified health coach and intermittent fasting instructor. You can find out more and contact her on her Web site. W w w dot Marisa moon dot com.   [00:45:52] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay safe, eat responsibly and clean when you do eat and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I am talking with Dr. Joel Kahn. Joel Kahn, MD, FACC of Detroit, Michigan, is a practicing cardiologist, and a Clinical Professor of Medicine at Wayne State University School of Medicine.  He graduated Summa Cum Laude from the University of Michigan Medical School. Known as "America’s Healthy Heart Doc", Dr. Kahn has triple board certification in Internal Medicine, Cardiovascular Medicine and Interventional Cardiology. Dr. Kahn has authored scores of publications in his field including articles, book chapters and monographs. He writes health articles and has five books in publication including Your Whole Heart Solution, Dead Execs Don’t Get Bonuses and The Plant Based Solution. His 6th book, Lipoprotein(a): The Heart’s Silent Killer, is about to be published. He has regular appearances on Dr. Phil, The Doctors Show, Dr. Oz, Larry King Now, Joe Rogan Experience, and with Bassem Yousef.www.drjoelkahn.com This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. TRANSCRIPTION*Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors[00:00:00] In this episode, I had the fortunate opportunity to speak with America's healthy heart doc, Dr. Joel Kahn. Dr. Kahn is a practicing cardiologist and a clinical professor of medicine at Wayne State University School of Medicine. Key points addressed were Dr. Kahn's books, titled The Plant Based Solution, published in 2018, and his most recent book, Leipold Protein Little, a published in March of 2020. We also conducted a Q&A with Dr. Khan regarding some of the most common inquiries. Our audience had regarding cardiovascular health and Vegan diets. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Dr. Joel Kahn. [00:00:45] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from food and fashion to tech and agriculture, from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas. The dialog captured here is part of our ongoing effort to host transparent and honest rhetoric. For those of you who, like myself, find great value in hearing the expertize and opinions of individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to their ideals. If you're enjoying these podcasts, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen, dot com, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. [00:01:42] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. [00:01:45] And today, I'm delighted to be sitting down with Dr. Joel Kahn. He is a practicing cardiologist and a clinical professor of medicine at Wayne State University School of Medicine. You can find out more about all of his endeavors on his Web site. W w w. Dr. Joel Kahn, K. H and dot com. Welcome, Joel. [00:02:05] Thank you very much. Excited to be here. [00:02:08] I am excited to have you on as well. We were talking prior to recording and you're involved in an insane amount of endeavors. But today I'm going to kind of forecast for everyone listening. We're going to unpack a couple of Dr. Kahn's works and then get into some general questions that our audience has reached out and kind of wanted to know on the medical forefront. Before I get to all of that, for everyone listening, I will offer a brief bio on Dr. Khan, as well as a roadmap for today's podcast. Let me start with the roadmap. We'll look at unpacking a couple of books, as I mentioned. One being the plant based solution published in 2020. And then we'll look at another book, Libro Protein A and kind of is the latest launch. And then I'll get into the general questions that a lot of you have reached out regarding some of the covered 19 pandemic inquiries and future scientific research being done as it relates to the Vegan diet and heart health prior to getting into all of that. Let me quickly do a bio on Dr. Kahn. Joel Kahn, M.D., F.A. of Detroit, Michigan, is a practicing cardiologist. Any clinical professor of medicine at Wayne State University School of Medicine. He graduated summa cum laude from the University of Michigan Medical School known as America's Healthy Heart Doc. Dr. Kahn has triple board certification in internal medicine, cardiovascular medicine and interventional cardiology. He was the first physician in the world to certify and metabolic cardiology within a four m m m I and the University of South Florida. He founded the Kahn Center for Cardiac Longevity and Bingham Farms, Michigan. Dr. Kahn has authored scores of publications in his field, including articles, book chapters and monographs. He writes healthy health articles and has five books in publication, including Your Whole Heart Solution Dead Exacts Don't Give Bonuses and the Plant Based Solution. His sixth book, Lipoprotein A., was just released, I believe, in March of this year. The Heart Silent Killer. He has regular appearances on Dr. Phil the Doctor Show, Dr. Oz, Larry King, now Joe Rogan experience and with Bassem Youssef. He has been awarded a Health Hero Award from Detroit Crain's Business. He owns GreenSpace and Go, a health restaurant in suburban Detroit, and he serves as medical director of the largest plant based support group in the USA. W w w dot p and s g dot org. Dr Con again can be found at w. W. W. Dr Joel Corn. Dot com. So I'd like to launch straight into your book and the inquiries that we have within that, namely the plant based solution that was published in 2020. We grabbed a quote from online. That's no disease that can be treated. Oh I'm sorry. It's the dedication that you did in this book that I found to be so pertinent after reading it. And it's no disease that can be treated by diet, should be treated with any other means by an old philosopher in the 12th century. I can't remember. Moloney's how do you pronounce that? [00:05:17] My Munadi My Money is a Spanish Moroccan born rabbi. Physician and I lived in Egypt most of his life. Quite a remarkable history in and of itself. [00:05:30] Yeah. And I like the quote. It reminds me a lot of like let food be thy medicine. People getting into some of the Aristotle and things. The book is described as a passionate, compelling and scientific argument for plant based nutrition. [00:05:45] You get into. For everyone who's listening and hasn't read it or would like to get a brief overview on it. It explores weight loss, how most people get it wrong when it comes to calcium protein, carbs. It's a relationship between lay people's knowledge and the heart health. And then you kind of unpack these different areas. The links between Vegan diet and your sex drive, gut health, brain chemistry, why plants might hold the key to better aging, eating out, stocking your pantry. And the whole thing is kind of wrapped up with this 21 day meal plan and advice for, as I call them, action items or this implant implementation into one's life. And my first question for you is in in your previous book, Dead Exists, Don't Get Bonuses, you focus on the coronary heart disease and you talk about a lot of the statistics and the science behind it. And this one seems to be like an application guide as you and. Talking about earlier. And I'm wondering what the impetus for the change in that was, what what the kind of inspiration behind writing this was. [00:06:50] You know, I spent decades practicing as a cardiologist. And that book called that exact I don't get bonuses and even my previous book, first book called Your Whole Heart Solution at a Real Cardiology Focus. It's my training. It's my practice. It's my primary avocation. But I had not written a book that went deep into plant based nutrition, that went deep into the science and went beyond her disease because the plant based solution goes well beyond our disease to speak about some other entities you talk about. And I wanted to do it. I just needed a resource to give to my patients. And people were asking in a way that didn't require, you know, a month to read, wasn't thick enough to know if your table were shaking. It was the heavy book you'd pick to balance it out. So I wanted it to have content and medical support, of course, but to be an easy read for people. And as you say, to be practical. So it ends with recipes. It ends with pantry, stocking solutions or the very challenging what do you do when you go over family or go to restaurants? Well, you know, very, very grounded in the science literature. I was always amazed. You know, there are a growing number of plant based cardiologists and there should be a growing number of plant based nephrologists and pulmonologists and gynecologists and all the others. I don't like dividing the body into organs. It all works together in one symphony when it's working well. But there really wasn't a book by a cardiologist. And with all respect, Esselstyn trained as a surgeon and Dr. Ornish trained as an internist and others. It just wasn't a bug out there with the experience I had over decades of treating heart attacks and congestive heart failure. And now I'm being part of hospital faculty. So I put that all together. And thank you for your kind words about it. I think it's a practical book. [00:08:47] Absolutely it is. I'm wondering how you chose. How did you curated? [00:08:50] Was it combined from patients that you had over the years or was it from areas that you found to be most integral for the person picking up an informational moment about diet and cardio health? [00:09:03] It was clearly based on, you know, by the time I wrote that book, it came out. I think you mentioned 20, 20, but actually came out in twenty eighteen, to be fair. No problem. I wrote most of it in late twenty seventeen. I mean I've been plant based since nineteen seventy seven. I started cardiology practice in nineteen ninety. So literally by the time I wrote that book I had twenty seven years of experience recommending to heart patients, high blood pressure patients, weight challenged patients, cholesterol patients, diabetic patients, auto immune patients. That there was science to suggest I would add multiple sclerosis patients. There was science to suggest shifting their diet to a complete or nearly complete whole food plant based diet would be of some potential therapeutic benefit. I had so many wonderful results and stunning results and people that avoided surgery and people that hit their goal, reduced their medication. Ever get on a medication, avoid surgery? So it certainly was based on that. This is the real deal. There's nothing theoretical about the science base and the practical application of whole food plant diets. The frustrated group is the small group that are trying hard and don't reach that goal. They're not getting enough blood pressure meds and they're not getting off cholesterol medicine. And that's what I try and help them with in my clinic in suburban Detroit is what are we missing? You know what's missing in their physiology, their chemistry, their genetics, their toxicology or their diet itself? [00:10:29] But majority people respond dramatically well and really just need a little push. A book like mine, watch a couple of videos, have a couple simple recipes. And, you know, you don't need to hold their hand for 30 years. They'll get it because they're gonna feel better in two, three, four weeks. The majority of the time. [00:10:49] Yeah. And ideally, there wouldn't be a lot of handholding, particularly between your clinic. What I like about the book is it talks a lot about prevention and not just treatment of heart disease. I feel like, you know, and when one goes into a cardiologist, there's already an issue. You know, you have a specialty that a lot of people don't talk about prevention. It's more about treatment once there becomes a problem. And so I like the idea of a book coming from the concept of prevention. [00:11:17] Do you feel like we are moving towards that as a society, into a prevention based model, or are we still based in a treatment moment when it comes to cardio health or crawling or crawling if if a average person walked into or maybe you say if a person walked into an average cardiologist office and said, I feel great, I just want you to check me. They probably would be told we don't do that here. Yeah, it's that in every case, in a large practice, there might be one cardiologist in twenty five that has that preventive interest. You know, you'd end up getting a stress test you probably don't need and some routine bloodwork. It's what I do know every day of the week in my clinic and people don't need to have a problem. In fact, I had a wonderful follow up phone call today with a woman who we went through the process of checking her advanced labs. She already was on a excellent diet of plants. And all we did was celebrate the fact you're healthy, you're healthy or healthy. You'll see in 10 years. I mean, that is a wonderful thing. And it ends the relationship and it ends anxiety. Allow these people have a family history like she did of a father with a heart attack at a young age and able to share such good news. But very often it's not such good news. There is heart disease, there is inflammation, there is metabolic abnormalities, vitamin abnormalities, and there's just lots to do. And food is the basis and food fix is most of it. But if you're low in vitamin D, if you're missing, I have to. I mean, I got to be very specific with some of the testing we do. I know nutrition science. Just you know, the reason I wrote the book in part, nutrition science is tough and that's why we see this war of Quito Paleo, you know, Mediterranean diet. There's a Mediterranean diet aren't as aggressive as the pro paleo pro Iquito. Prokhanov for the vegans are weak ninnies and meat eaters are strong and incredible. It's just amazing how contentious it is. It's also difficult to do good nutrition science. It's hard to get a thousand people to eat in different patterns for 20 years and really make measurements. So you've got to do the best with what you have from basic science, from epidemiology, from the few randomized studies like Dr. Ornish. Just you got to take a jam, put it all together and try and be very honest with the data. I mean, once in a while, an article comes out that low fat dairy may be decent for your blood pressure. Well, I'm not going to recommend my patients start drinking milk if they're not. But after recognizer is some data out there. So you got to be fair and authentic. [00:13:52] Yeah. And you mentioned in a previous interview, I think it was a podcast or something we dug up on YouTube. But you talked about and it was kind of a divisive rhetoric, you know. [00:14:02] I think was it more aggrandize than when I watched it at a Google talks between yourself and some experts with them? The names are escaping me, but with Anderson from what? [00:14:13] The Health and Dave Asprey from Bulletproof Coffee. Yeah, well, reporters in California. [00:14:20] Yeah. You talked a lot about in the clip I saw the divisiveness is concerning for someone who's trying to get, you know, good health out of good health information and things like that. [00:14:30] Because you stated in this clip your concern was that if if you hear one camp saying one thing, one camp saying directly opposite the, you know, the client or the public walks away and does nothing and they're walking and they walk and they walk into McDonald's in one days because they say the experts can't figure this out. [00:14:48] I'll just eat what I want to eat and doesn't seem to really matter. So it does really confuse the public. I just give an example. 60 years, a science suggests the more saturated fat, rich foods you eat butter, cheese, pepperoni, bacon, the more likely to develop heart disease and a lot of other things. Diabetes, cancer, dementia. Decades of science. The last 10 years that got very muddied by some very poor science that got big headlines like Time magazine butter's back cover in 2014. But about four or five weeks ago, the most prestigious science group independent of funding did a review paper. Saturated fat causes heart disease. When you cut back butter and cheese and pepperoni and croissance and pizza, you will reduce your cholesterol. You reduce your risk of having a heart attack or stroke. This is the most respected group. So I wrote a couple blogs. I did a interview. All that stuff came on the last week. It did nothing to bring any real unity, even though the science is pretty well unified. If you're entrenched, meat, cheese, butter, eggs, pro science are good for you. You know, you ignore the science. You find some flaw in it even when there really isn't much of a flaw. So it's unfortunate that food wars exist. But it really what I always come back to when I lecture and I'll be quiet. And if you look at the Harvard School of Public Health, they have a food plate from 2011. Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, healthy protein. If you look at Canada's food plate, 2019, same beautiful food plate. We look at peace. Cierra physician, Kabbani, responsible medicine, all plant food. There actually is tremendous unanimity around the world by reasonable people that your diet should be brightly colored, whole fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes. I don't add in small amounts of extra meat. Some of these food plates give you the option of adding in small amounts of eggs and meat. I think diets are better when they don't include that. But we're really talking about truly a very tiny debate with tremendous unanimity. But, you know, if you've got a platform and a, you know, a YouTube channel, Alhurra, a blog, you can create a mountain of what is really a molehill of differences. [00:17:09] Yeah. And I like the celebration of unifying factors. You talk a lot about how a lot of these people, you know, everyone is in unison that white flour, sugar, processed foods, these things should not be in one's diet. And beginning from that standpoint, I think is good. And yes, the the visual representations that have come out since 2016 and the advice they're all very similar to looking can turn the old food paradigm where it needs to be, which isn't just on its head. [00:17:37] I think just to complete rubbish. I want to look at the book like a protein A and I told you before we started, I hadn't thought it had launched yet. I was corrected. You said it's been out since March. I think I've been in a little bit. There it is. I think I've been in a little bit of a cave. But what I did see, what I did do is find research from you yourself online, making up a recipe of overnight oats. I'm always amazed. I fancy myself as a very adventurous Vegan cook. And I've been doing a search for 10 years. And it's always amazing to me how there's just this the overnight oats I haven't ever made. And it's so ironic. But I think that it's it points to the utility of books like this. And I'm hoping you can speak because I haven't read it a little bit about the impetus for writing it and what it contains, aside from recipes. [00:18:27] But as I say, started out writing kind of cardiology books for the public, wrote a couple books directly on the Vegan topic. This actually brings the two together. It's a very interesting story I'll blurt out in about two minutes. But it turns out about 60 years ago, a kind of cholesterol. This we get a little science, see that you can inherit from mom and dad was identified in the blood and it is called it's a terrible name. If you're were in the marketing field, Lifebook Protein Live Olay. Anybody can see the cover, the book. The word liberal isn't there. It's lowercase A.. But that's how it's pronounced scientifically. Lipoprotein Little A, you could ask your family doctor, your internist, your gynecologist next routine physical. Can you add a light poke protein little a blood level to my standard blood. It's a form of cholesterol you inherit from your mom and dad. And if you inherit it and if it's high, it can clog up your arteries. It can lead to heart attack, stroke, erectile dysfunction aneurysms and even destroy one of the heart valves in the heart. And it does it very slowly and very progressively because since you inherit it, it's in your blood. From the time of conception forward, the dramatic statement is 25 to 30 percent of people inherit it. So that means 90 million Americans, one point eight billion people worldwide and hardly a doctor in the United States checks the little box to measure it. It's been researched. There's hundreds and hundreds of very high quality research articles and it has been mentioned. If you have a family history, if mom had a stroke at age 48, if dad had bypass surgery at age 52, maybe your doctor should order this. But that's rarely done, even though that's been in the mainstream. But just recently, there's a growing incentive. Maybe everybody should just ask, is it twenty or thirty dollar blood tests? It's not like a fancy genetic test. It's just a blood test. And find out early in life. Did you inherit it or not? It's kind of that's why it's a silent heart killer, because it's silent in part because we don't test for it. And also, by its nature, it's slowly, slowly, slowly can damage vessels. And this tradition also you can get your routine cholesterol. Your cholesterol is one hundred and eighty and your HDL, your LDL. It won't show up on that. And it could be that your lipoproteins is still very high, the standard treatment of cholesterol. Exercise. Change your diet. Take your lipid tour. Take your Crestor or do very little to lower it. If you inherit a high level, I have a whole practice full of people with very high blood levels, and many of them have had a bypass, heart attack, a stroke and other problems, heart valve surgery. The vitamin niacin can lower it, but there's at least some science at a Whole Foods plant. Diet can also lower it. And even if it doesn't lower it much, it'll probably lower the blood pressure to lower the blood sugar, to lower the more commonly checked LDL cholesterol at a lower inflammation. So, you know, that's why the book is Half Science and half beautiful recipes, including the overnight out recipe that I did a little YouTube video on. [00:21:41] I mean, I brought in one of my favorite plant based recipe writers, Beverly Lynn Bennett. I've worked with her before. So it's kind of like the plant based solution, their science. And then there's some practical steps. There's all this gorgeous food and the food and the recipes were specifically selected to be very likely to help control cholesterol, blood pressure, inflammation, blood sugar. They're delicious, but they emphasize things like oats, oats, lower cholesterol by the soluble fiber and the glue cans and a lot of chia hemp flax seeds, which can lower cholesterol and blood pressure. So there it's kind of a heart healthy, delicious diet book with some fascinating science and probably somebody listening right now. Undoubtedly, somebody watching this has a high lipoprotein egg because it's come it's the most common genetic heart risk that exists. But we never talk about it. I'm trying to break that there. But, you know, somebody is going to benefit just by thinking, God, my whole family's riddled with heart disease and they keep telling me we don't know why. No, nobody smoke and nobody has insulin required diabetes. I'm telling you. Check your libro protein, literally. [00:22:53] It reminds me when you're saying this. [00:22:55] We've spoken to a few autoimmune experts about veganism, you know, the vegan diet and the auto immune triggers and things of that nature. And I know from the sound of it, it's going to build regardless, except for, you know, these these things that you can do with diet and maybe niacin. [00:23:13] But he isn't similar. It's not a trigger. It's not a switch that's getting switched on like the autoimmune. Right. It's just destined to build more than genetic. [00:23:22] We know what chromosome we know and which genes are involved. And the trigger is conception. Right. Unlike the idea that there might be a gut issue that triggers lupus or a toxicity from Roundup that might trigger an auto immune disease, a gut damage. So nothing triggers us. It just sits there circulating in the blood, knocking into arteries, knocking in the Arpels, causing a reaction that, again, slowly, slowly, slowly. But by the time you're forty five, you might be sitting on a little ticking time bomb you didn't know about without scaring anybody. But it is possible. Yeah. You talk about the big famous just so people can relate. A lot of people used to watch The Biggest Loser show and there was Jillian Michaels looking repped and there was Bob Harper looking. Well, three years ago, Bob Harper at age 51, had a massive heart attack and almost died. And he announced a couple months later when he had recovered from a very long illness, that he found out he had inherited a very high level of late pope protein, little ache, and he was under treatment now and very optimistic for the future. But what if he found out 10 years before we can argue? What could he have done about it? There is a drug in development that will be the answer to the problem. But in the meantime, get your diet right exercise. Get your weight right. Know your numbers. I mean, take super good care yourself. [00:24:47] Yeah. You talk a lot about kind of affecting. I think it's important, especially for scientists as well. Particularly when you get into book writing and things like that to consider all groups and industries within, you know, the people they are talking about, which are all masses of people in your society. And to that end, I was curious, you know, you talk a lot about fast food. And in even in something I watched you talked about, you know, just as the sad irony of having a Wendy's or McDonald's in their hospital green room before the rat reception. Yeah, but I'm wondering to that end to kind of speaking to everybody, all socioeconomic classes and things of that nature in the book, Libo Lipoprotein Little A.. When you went to form your recipes, did you consider like the nationwide availability of the products of the ingredients that you were putting in those recipes, income, status or other like necessary moments to think about when you were trying to make. Accessible to everybody, but also have the same or the necessary ingredients to help the condition. [00:25:53] You know, in general, a well constructed whole food plan diet is an inexpensive and widely accessible diet. You just got to get back to basics. A lot of the recipes have brown rice. The recipes have Ghinwa. The recipes have beans and peas and lentils. The lagoon family, which if you know, you go to a bulk store and you buy big bags of dried rice and dried beans, you know, you need access to produce. Could be frozen big bags. The book doesn't stress organic because that becomes a price point. Many people get it. It's a nice add on when it's available and when you can afford it. But nonetheless, any well constructed whole food plan diet, even if it's not organic, is going to beat out from a total health standpoint. Almost any plant based plant, animal based meal, whether it's organic or not. So I think it is sensitive to all that. And there are other great resources. I wrote a book two ago with coauthor Ellen Jaffe Jones. She has a great paperback called Vegan on Four Dollars a Day that I would recommend anybody who's really trying. And it was written probably seven, eight years ago. So maybe it's Vegan and six dollars a day now. But there are so many tips in a book like that that you could adapt a few. But it takes a little preparation and, you know, a little bit of courage to dove into these recipes if you're coming from a place that has never really cooked. You've just got to have a chopping board and some good nice. [00:27:25] You mentioned on one of the episodes I saw that an average C.T. scan tips to obtain artery health reports and calcium scan ESAN. [00:27:35] Seventy five to one hundred dollars in most major hospitals. And this is a piece of information. I had no idea. I think you get thousands. I don't have a great idea about how much medical tests cost since the bills. Always astronomical from anything I hear about. And I'm wondering if you have a basic elevator pitch style pieces of advice like that within the cardiac health industry that you give people who kind of run into you and are looking for like your top type five pieces of advice. You talk about men being between the ages of 45 and 50, getting there for a C.T. scan if they haven't had one. And things like that. You have other little pieces of information that you like to give off to people as quickly as possible when you run into them. [00:28:12] Yeah. You know, I have a few little things that roll off my tongue over and over. And one of them is, you know, we can talk about recipes and food, but it takes technology added to great lifestyle to really cement the security that you and I are going to have a sudden medical adverse event or particularly cardiovascular heart adverse event. And, you know, talking about getting a blood test for Lipoprotein Little A is actually a very technical topic. I could go on and on and refine that about the genetics of it, but we don't need to simply just check a box and get it. Similarly, you know what I bring up all the time with patients. Just think about it. You know, somebody recommended you to get a mammogram at age 45. If you're a woman, somebody recommended you get a call and ask could be at age 50 at an annual physical. Did anybody want to check your heart in all that? And even if you say, I know my father had a stent at age 59, did anybody recommend anything? So that's where the entree is to talk about that. There actually has been a test, quick CAT scan, no dye, no needle, no pain, no claustrophobia. It used to be a thousand dollars 20 years ago, but in the hospitals in suburban Detroit and usually around the country, it's one hundred dollar range and you just pay out of pocket and you immediately know I'm weathering life well with clean cut, flexible arteries that are degraded by calcium deposits, which make your arteries hard, hardening of the arteries, or there's a problem. Something's going on. I'm walking around with heart disease. I didn't know about it. You need to find that preventive doctor in your community and work with him or her and get a handle on it and get your diet. You know, the plant based solution done of approved diet. So test, I guess, comes out of my mouth. Prevent, not stent. Lot of people are getting invasive procedures. Stents bypass. All the data, including just in the last six weeks is for the majority of people. This is hardcore science data at the best centers in the world can be approached with medication, diet, fitness and avoid stents. A bypass or prevent that stent is a nice little one. You know, you mention, you know, I just like the word reversal. So many people come to me. They've had heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, erectile dysfunction, gut issues. And just to open Pandora's box, that it may be related to their lifestyle and it may be possible to reverse some or all of it is to most patients an idea that's never been brought up with them before. You know, I had no idea there's a chance I might be able to reduce my blood pressure, blood sugar, blood. Heart medication, if you worked very hard at it, you're going to have to work very hard at it. But gives people a lot of hope and a lot of actually empowerment to know that they know it's not all about the prescription pad the doctor has. It's a lot about the pantry, the grocery store, the fridge aerator, the freezer, the treadmill, the sidewalk, the pillow. You've got to sleep at night. The whole lifestyle that I educate patients. [00:31:17] Yeah. And speaking to lifestyles, I've been on YouTube. And it seems like some of the videos since the Cauvin 19 pandemic has really set in and the stay at home quarantine has been advised. [00:31:29] You have a lot of little I like your videos, the very brief, very succinct, and I'm very diversified. You have a lot of things, combination of exercise and stacking, a combination of exercises, movements, connection to the earth, conquer thing. You talk about melatonin and the recent research being done in treatment, or at least alongside the Kovik 19, the microbiome of an Apple nutrition of sprouts and the sprouting book with a colleague of yours that came out nitric oxide. Are there any other things that you're kind of looking at right now? Vitamins, exercise, et cetera, that you do like that that are kind of at the forefront of what you're what you're looking at with health as diversified as they might be? [00:32:11] Yeah. You know, so just since you brought up the word covered, 19, you know, nobody can authentically say we actually know how to prevent it or treat it. We're struggling to find that pathway. There's a lot of people talking about that. There isn't prominent professor of what's called pulmonary critical care medicine in Norfolk, Virginia, who suggested it might be reasonable to add in some vitamin D, some vitamins, C, some zinc. These are supplements. You can do it in your food. Of course, you know, zinc is a quite rich in soy like hemp and tofu template of melatonin at night is one of his recommendations. And there is finally an antioxidant called quercetin, which is finding garlic and apples and onions and cherries. But there are people that are taking a course. It's an supplement based on reasonable recommendations. Do we know? Has it been studied? We don't. These are very safe, very inexpensive supplements. Pennies a day. Good night's sleep. Maintaining proper body weight, excess body weight has been a risk factor for not doing well if you do contact Koven 19. You might be in a state of constant inflammation. Here you got a virus that triggers massive inflammation. If you started a high point, that's going to be a little easier to reach a critical inflammatory status. And of course, wash your hands and physical distance as appropriate and wear your mask as appropriate for sure. Those are all interesting. There is actually just to mention there's a theory. Again, remember, 25 to 30 percent of people have lipoprotein little they elevated in their blood. One of the bad actions of this special cholesterol inherited Mollica is it can cause blood, the clot. And one of the tragic circumstances in a lot of cases, sick people with Cauvin, 19 in the ICU is all of sudden there's clotting everywhere. There's clotting in the heart, there's clotting in the lungs, there's clotting. It's a theory that lipoprotein the delay may be partly to explain why some people just explode with this terrible issue and others don't. So not now, but maybe the God forbid, the next pandemic will have more people that are where they have lipoprotein little a inherited problem. I'll have a better therapy for MRSA or anything else. I'm working. I'm always working on something. I'm deep, deep right now into the endocannabinoid system. You know, the fact that we have a chemicals in receptors in our body, that when you access cannabis or hemp or know CBD, why does that activate reactions and about. I'm just reading a lot about it. Oh, it is. These are phyto cannabinoids, plant based chemicals that are hacking into our own internal system. Most people don't know we make a series of chemicals in our body that are the authentic cannabis like chemicals, and it just happens to be many plants. But cannabis is the most famous plant. You don't have to smoke it. It could be a hemp oil capsule or A-S, but many plants have a response in the body, just like our own internal system. Some people there may be the future diagnosis. Maybe you have a hypo cannabinoid system. You better add in some cannabinoids like hemp oil. It's a fascinating pathway right now being looked at in anxiety, poor sleep. Some metabolic issues, some pain issues. So I'm pretty deep into learning as much as possible on that. [00:35:50] Excellent. I look forward to your findings. And I reached out to some of our audience members and colleagues when I knew I was going to be speaking with a cardiologist today. And I asked them about any questions that they had late or not. I told them I wasn't going to quote any of them. And I have a few I'd like to run by you. One is and kind of a general inquiry that how would one know without pain or some kind of a cardiac arrest moment if there was an issue with their heart. [00:36:22] Yeah. So I don't wait for the cardiac arrest. Very bad way to find out. You have heart disease because recovery from that is very low. Again, just succinctly. Get a few extra blood tests, get blood tests. Go see your doctor. Get your blood pressure check. Get the routine stuff. Maybe ask for the lipoprotein little lei and maybe a test of inflammation. The C reactive protein. [00:36:46] But I'm going to reach over. And just so a visual is always better. This is a practice for sure. But again, if people aren't familiar, there's a great documentary you can find on Netflix called The Widowmaker movie, and I'm not in it. It's about seven, eight years old. But this is a picture of a CAT scan of the heart. That's the bones on the outside. The lungs are black, the heart and the metal. And there's a yellow arrow. If you want to know if you're walking around with silent blocked arteries that you're not aware of, you get is called a coronary artery calcium scan. And you need a prescription generally from your doctor. And you spend, as I say, seventy five. One hundred dollars. If you're being charged more than that. Just call the next hospital. And if you want to learn more about it. The Widowmaker movie, Boom, you'll have all the data you need. And that is now recommended by the American Heart Association and others. This is not a unique viewpoint that I have. Yeah. [00:37:44] OK. And how so? Olive oil, coconut oil and other plant based oils have been something that a lot of people that we've reached out to feel like they've had misinformation about. [00:37:55] And how do you feel about these particular oils when added as condiments or sources to a vegan diet? [00:38:03] So very hot topic when I know a lot about. And I'll give you again a quick answer. You've got to go back to science. Number one, people have been using olive oil for thousands of years. That's not true of coconut oil. It's a basic component of the Mediterranean diet, which we learned in the 1950s resulted in a much lower rate of diabetes, cancer, dementia and heart disease than junky Western foods. So you could ingest in Crete and the island of Crete off of Greece. They drank olive oil like a liter a week. It constituted 40 percent of their calories of their diet. And they had very low rates of these diseases. But it wasn't butter and it wasn't lard and it wasn't ghee. And there's no coconut trees in Crete. It wasn't coconut. There is also very strong data from the Harvard School of Public Health that if you're using butter or if you're using lard and you switch over to extra virgin olive oil, you will def. And actually, it's also true of other plant oils. You will definitely drop your risk statistically of developing heart disease. So olive oil has gotten a very bad rap in some portions of the Vegan world because if you're the very small slice of the pie. It is terrible heart disease. And when somebody comes to me and says, I'm supposed to have bypass surgery next week, what do I do? I'm going to definitely advise them. Whole food, plant based, no added oil diet, because that's consistent with the studies by Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Ornish, Mr. Nathan Pritikin and such. But that's a very small slice. If you're sitting at home and you're healthy. Maybe if add your calcium score down and it's great and you want to drizzle some extra virgin olive oil on your Froogle a salad. God bless you. Enjoy it. It's a delicious way. [00:39:47] And it may actually help you absorb fat soluble vitamins like vitamin D, invite him and even vitamin A out of your foods a little better. So I'm not as rigid that nobody can have oil. Coconut oil has a unique position. It's very high in saturated fat where olive oil, avocado oil and canola oil are very low in saturated fat. And there's just no data that coconut oil actually supports healthy heart lifestyle. It's not part of the Mediterranean diet. Some people mentioned that it just doesn't exist. It's a it's a tropical plant. It's not a Mediterranean basin plant. And there is concern that oil raises cholesterol. The official word to the American Heart and American College of Cardiology Associations is we're concerned avoid eliminated from your diet. Put it on your skin if you want, but don't eat it. There was this trend by Dave Astbury. Here's a cup of coffee. Here's a couple tablespoons of coconut oil. Your brain will be fired up for super function, but some people's cholesterol go insane with that approach. Two hundred to five hundred in three weeks. So if you're going to do it, do it with an experimental mind to at least check your blood work. But I don't use coconut oil. I do use extra virgin olive oil. But I know my arteries are wickedly clean. Thank you. [00:41:09] Absolutely. Well, and to that end, yeah, I did. And once I heard it was going to produce all sorts of brain clarity, I myself down just a straight tablespoon, never felt any clarity. There's that personally. [00:41:21] Try getting a lot of it. You will find clarity in your colon because it causes a very rapid diarrhea. You do. [00:41:28] I did not do enough. That would have stopped me as well. I'm wondering. We've had a lot of feedback from people who've spoken to either advisors, health advisors, to people that said they spoke with doctors, just general M.D. and that said that they shouldn't fast because their calorie intake as vegans is both a little bit more fickle and different from that. They're carnivorous or milk eating counterparts. And Dan, a lot of vegans that are watching the show and listen to it have a relationship with fasting. You yourself have talked about what the doctor, Longo and Autophagy, those things, you know, kind of have been heated conversations even in the Vegan community with cellular repair and things like that. How do you personally stand about vegans fasting from, oh, mad one meal a day, too intermittent or longer? Fast. [00:42:26] On average, a well constructed plan diet has fewer calories in a day than a general American or meat based diet. It's, you know. The food is nutrition dense, but not very calorie dense. If you're eating big salads and beans and peas and grains, you will change up a little bit of use, too much extra virgin olive oil because of the density of calories. And you can bring it up. So we are some people talk about we are like leaning towards fasting naturally day after day after day, because even if it's two or three hundred calories a day, less than our compatriots are eating meat day after day after day, that is less of a metabolic stress on the body. But there is a magic to going a period of time and it may take three or four or even five days of reduced or no calories. I don't do no calorie fasting. I don't do water fasting. I could I'm healthy enough to some people are not healthy enough. Too frail to diabetic to nutritionally imbalanced for heart failure. Some people should. So Dr. Longo created this five day, 800 calorie day plant meal based program called the Fasting Mimicking Diet. That's a trademark name or prolon. That's a trademark. And I'm a big, big advocate because there's some magical responses when you deprive the body of glucose and protein for five days. And this program is a very low glucose, very low protein, high fat, high complex carbohydrate program. With all the food provided, you can you can inhibit some pathways that cause damage and aging. You can activate some pathways that cause rejuvenation, regeneration. You can stimulate stem cells. It's all very high level science. And you will see in 2020 that this particular program, fasting, mimicking diet, combined with cancer, chemotherapy, combined with other programs, is revolutionary, revolutionary, revolutionizing the way we're using nutrition as an adjunct to treating serious disease. But it's a perfectly great choice for somebody just wants to enhance their health. So, you know, there has not been a study. You've got a perfect plant based diet. Will adding on fasting give you some even further health advantage? But there are some people, as I mentioned, they're struggling, they're eating all food based diet, but their weight still isn't at target. Their blood pressure still isn't at Target. Doing fasting with that whole food plant based diet may be the key to turn on metabolism the way they want and get the results they want. Interesting. [00:44:59] Yeah. And finally, we had just a general inquiry as to what your personal thoughts were. And there's been a lot of people a little bit more shocked than not regarding how little their personal doctors or cardiologists and specifically know about nutrition. And I'm wondering if you can speak to your own personal testament as to whether or not you feel like the majority of your colleagues are educated in the science of nutrition and particularly latter day nutrition. [00:45:30] You know, the answer is generally no. There are some that are just completely resistant to the topic and you're not going to get them away from their steak and potato diet. There are some of the younger ones that just can't help but notice the game changers movie they heard about or Tennessee Titans football team or Serena Williams. I mean, it's just too much in the public culture. So they're aware and they may have done some readings from research. There's a growing number of plant based doctors and plant based cardiologists that as many as there should be. But it's growing. But it is frustrating. And again, when you walk into a hospital and there's a Wendy's or you walk in the doctor's dining room and there's fried chicken on a regular basis, you know that there's mixed messages and inconsistent education, that the board exams to become a doctor rarely have any nutrition questions. So that means the curriculum is not going to have much nutrition because one of the goals are going to training is to pass the darn test. And why spend too much time on a topic that's not been tested for? So there's a movement to get more nutrition questions on these board exams, forcing the curriculum to be more nutrition based. I think everybody listening should buy a copy of the plant based solution and gift it to their doctor and we can start a revolution. You know that it's going to take things like that. I mean, I've had the pleasure of giving grand rounds at cardiology departments on nutrition as recently as last week by Xoom and other ways. And it's frankly now 10 percent of the audience has any clue what I'm talking about. And the rest of them are just blown away that there's data about this. But are they blown away and they're going to make changes or are they blown away and they're on to the next topic? I'm only hopeful that it's altering some of their opinion about spend four minutes of your 20 minutes talking to people about nutrition or just tell them to watch forks overnight. I mean, that's what I did for years. I had 15 minutes. One minute was prescription pad. Please watch this movie. I usually actually had at that time DVD they could take home. Now it's just online. So one little statement to a patient can change your life forever. [00:47:41] Is there any index to find or locate cardiologists who are open to or entertaining Vegan or vegetarian diets? [00:47:50] A cardiologist, not exclusively. There is a website article on it called Plant Based Doctors Dot Org. And if you type in your zip code and twenty five mile radius, you know, it might be a therapist, it might be a nurse practitioner and it might be a general internist or cardiologist. But at least from the meetings I go to, there's a few dozen cardiologists, maybe, maybe there's one hundred, but that's out of thousands in the United States. [00:48:18] That's terrifying. Well, I want to say thank you so much, Dr. Khan. We're out of time. I do appreciate you indulging me in our questions and unpacking your books. I really appreciate everything and all of your candor today. [00:48:32] Well, I always appreciate the opportunity. I'm very passionate about talking about what we talked about as one, two, three, four, five people that are listening and maybe 10 times. And many are going to you'll find out something. And even if it's just that blood test lipoprotein little. Hey, but, you know, if you're eating plant based, you are making a quality decision. Don't give up. And if you're having a struggle with it, reach out to somebody in your community or, you know, my clinic does cancels. Let me help you figure out why I click in for you. [00:49:00] Wonderful. Thank you for everyone listening. We've been speaking with Dr. Joel Klein. You can discover more about him, all of his research on W WW, Dr. Jill Concow. You can also purchase all of the books mentioned here on Amazon until we speak again next time. [00:49:17] Remember to eat clean, eat responsibly, stay in love with the world and always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I chat with Tamara Klink. Tamara’s life purpose is to empower females working in technology to live a balanced and purposeful life. She founded FIIT Collective to create a global support network for females working in tech, or considering information technology as a career.   Along the way Tamara spent 8 years as a circus performer, graduated from Bond University with a Bachelors of Business and Accounting, then moved into recruitment, before finding her joy in technology. Tamara now works for Salesforce, one of the leading technology companies globally, as a Senior Solution Engineer.   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.    TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with Tamara Johanna Klink. Tamara is the founder of the Global Support Network. F. I. I. T. Fit Collective. Key points addressed were tomorrow's professional history and current dream job with Salesforce. We also discussed her founding the Fit Collective, which stands for females in information technology and serves as a global support network for females working in tech or considering a career in tech. Stay tuned for my talk with Tamara Johanna Klink.   [00:00:37] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .com , where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod, Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:35] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia. And today I'm excited to be sitting down with Tamara Johanna Klink. She's the founder of Fit Collective, a global support network for females working in tech, are considering a tech career. You can find out more about her and fit collective at fit collective dot com. Welcome, Tamara.   [00:01:56] Oh, thank you so much, Patricia, for having me.   [00:01:58] Absolutely. I look forward to unpacking fit collective and everything that you're doing there for everyone. Listening and perhaps new to the podcast series will follow the same trajectory, a roadmap for today's podcast and follows the same trajectories, all of those in the series with our inquiry line. First looking at unpacking tomorrow's academic background and early professional life leading leading her up to father founding of Fit Collective. Then we'll turn straight to Unpacking Fit Collective. We'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, why, how, funding all of those things that may pertain to it. And then we'll get into the ethos and the philosophy behind what Tamara is doing with her vision there. We'll then turn our efforts towards unpacking and looking at the goals and plans that she has in the future for both the collective and her other work endeavors. And we'll wrap everything up with advice that she may have. For those of you looking to get involved with fit, collective and or emulate some of her career success. Before I begin peppering Tamara with questions, I'll read a quick bio on hers that can garner a bit of her background prior to her describing herself. Tomorrows life purpose is to empower females working in technology to live a balanced and purposeful life. She founded Fit Collective to create a global support network for females working in tech or considering information technology as a career. Along the way, tomorrow spent eight years as a circus performer, graduated from Bond University with a Bachelors of Business and accounting, then moved into recruitment before finding her joy in technology. Tomorrow now works for Salesforce, one of the leading technology companies globally as a senior solution engineer. Since founding her business, Tamara has been awarded the top five leading ladies in tech on Instagram by women who code top blogs. Young women in technology should follow by code like a girl, a finalist for the air and women in I c t awards and a finalist in the Emerging Leader category of the Empowerment of Women Awards. So tomorrow, that's really exciting. You've had some like really quick early on success and I'm excited to kind of climb through what you're doing now and find out more about it. But before we do that, could you please, for our audience listening and watching today, kind of describe your academic background and early professional life that led you to where you are right now?   [00:04:23] Yeah, no problem. Did you want me to start back in the circus is that way?   [00:04:28] Yes. I want all of it. I do. And you can't drop a little tidbit like that without me just dying to hear more about it.   [00:04:35] Or I said so ever since I was a little girl, I was a sporty kid and I really enjoyed it and excelled in professional sport. So I went to state swimming, water polo. I was very good at dancing, gymnastics. But none of them had my heart. And it was one day when I was walking down Queen Straight and All in Brisbane and I saw these kids doing circus tricks. And I looked at my mum saying, Oh, my God. That is so cool. That's exactly what I want to do. And she's thinking, my gosh, tomorrow you are already doing a million other things. But okay, let's go to the game. So I started doing circus. At the age of 10 and by the age of fifteen, I moved out of home and was traveling all of Australia with a circus school. So I would still go to normal high school. But the teachers would come and tour with us to ensure that we did allow exam the same as every other normal kid would. At the same time. And we would schedule our tours and performances around those exam timetables. And my ultimate goal at that point was to be in display. That was that was the dream. And in my graduating year, when I was 18 years old, I had an injury and it wasn't surveyed. But it was enough for me to wake up and realize how dominant or how much my body needed to be fit and healthy for me to have a sustainable career at Circus.   [00:06:15] And everything that my parents said about moving out of home. I mean, at the time I was going to an all girls Catholic boarding school before I went to sex. So it was a big shift for them emotionally. So, yeah, everything just came rushing back of them saying that I needed a back. So I decided to listen as much as I didn't want to and put my head in the books and studied really, really hard. In my final year at school and ended up going to university in the Gold Christ, where I studied business management and accounting, and the goal was to just get my degree and then head back to circus. But that wasn't the case at all. I fell in love with university and left my circus career behind. And naturally, I excelled in accounting. So as any, I guess, university student would think. What you excel at. You should pursue. So I ended up getting a part time job in a tax accounting firm and then studying part time and then having three other casual jobs on the side to ensure that I could sustain the party life and buy all the new dresses that I wanted. And at the end of my degree, I realized how much I hated accounting and I thought it was really dull and really boring. And it wasn't for me and I could not stand to look at another tax or 10. I needed some more human interaction. So I was really, really lost at that point and I had no idea what I wanted to do. So I went to my parents for advice and I had two opportunities on the table. One was in change management at one of the top four firms here in Australia, and another was starting up a recruitment firm for an international recruitment agency in Melbourne. And I spoke to them at the time. I was like, what do you think I should do? And they said, Mary, you have two options. You can either be really small fish in a really big pond and start consulting on change management. When you have zeri industry experience and work really, really, really long hours, or you can really step outside of your comfort zone and start a recruitment firm and they you're going to learn how to sell, how to negotiate and build a really, really thick skin because not everyone likes recruiters.   [00:08:46] And so yeah, I decided to start a recruitment firm. I thought it's going to give me a really good perspective of all the industries out there and first hand knowledge of all of the different corporate coaches. And then after that, I'll know where I want to go and guide my career that way. So funnily enough, the recruitment side of the business that I was starting with s schools recruitment. And at the time I had no idea what SAS was, was I was like, what is it, CRM? I just don't understand. And so in the first week, I had to do a presentation to my managers at the time and about sousveillance and the type of candidates that we would hire by the end of the presentation. My manager said to me, When can we get sound? Supposing we need it as a CRM? And I was just so passionate about it. I would be the first one in the firm to be there in the morning researching about Marc Benioff and what technology he's just bought and the latest innovations. And I ended up spending more time learning about Salesforce than actually recruiting. And one day I decided to do what I did best. And that was take a day off and recruit. And I recruited myself into all of the different organizations that I knew had samples so specialized in samples, implementations and just said, look, I'm a junior. I don't know a lot. I've been studying sounds and really passionate about it. Would you give me a chance to work at your firm and I'll do whatever it takes? I work the long hours. I'll do whatever course. And two organizations had said yes. And I decided to go with the organization that specialized in marketing cloud, which is what I specialize in today. And I wouldn't say could not believe that they hired me. I had zero technical knowledge, zero technical skills. And within the first two weeks they put me on site with clients and building the platform. And I just fell so deeply in love with it, ended up being a developer. And then after two years, I got a job at Salesforce. So that's my career journey. I guess where I went, especially where I want to talk about, is with it. Collective came into that.   [00:11:13] Yeah, absolutely. What was the inspiration for launching a collective or was it something that germinated for a long time, or was it just something that kind of hit you one day?   [00:11:23] Well, being in recruitment and specializing in tech recruitment, it sounds folks recruitment. I started to notice how many men I was talking to, and at the time it wasn't an issue at all. I love men. I think they're great. I think they're really intellectual and very smart. And when I started my job at Kaleido, which was the partner that first hired me with serious technical skills. I very quickly realized that my team were olman, and that wasn't an issue at all. They didn't discriminate against me. They really looked after me. They gave me so many different opportunities. I wouldn't be where I am today without them. But I couldn't say what I couldn't see. And there was no senior management there at the time that were female. And I was lusting where my career path could go. So I started looking online for some tech events that I could attend and meet other women who were in tech. And I found some really, really great events with girls in tech and cried like a girl and they were just phenomenal. But the issue at the time was that I didn't have time to attend these events all the time working in tech. You do have implementation projects that require later hours at times. And I found myself signing up to these events, but not being able to go. So I looked online looking for some other career stories about women in tech. And the ones that I found I didn't feel were authentic. I felt like it highlighted all of the success, but it didn't talk about the challenges that women have to go through to get to where they are today. And they missed such a big piece of the puzzle, which was the life aspect. You know, it focused on the career. But what about the life? And what about falling pregnant and going on maternity leave and what it's like to come off maternity leave and the guilt that you have behind that? Why aren't we talking about that? Like, why is that seen as a weakness? So I started off with an Instagram account just to save. That was an audience out there. And if there were other women in tech who wanted that holistic view in that work life balance and being more purposeful in life, work and life. And my Instagram account just blew up and I thought, OK, this is an opportunity. Started a website and now it's time to into a podcast, which I absolutely love. And yeah, there's just so much that I want to do with it.   [00:13:51] So I'm curious, when your audience started to grow. Was it local? Did you. Did you make it immediately global or was it Australian?   [00:14:01] And was it largely women or female identified? Or did any of those profile elastic characteristics matter?   [00:14:09] Yes. So I thought that my audience would be predominantly in Australia. But it's actually masked mostly in the US, which is amazing. I love. I definitely want to go to the US again one day. I think it's such an incredible country. And. But I do have a lot of men as well. And that's not a problem for me at all because men are part of the picture. And that's what an equal workforce looks like. And we need them to have that do best by thinking when we need them to help us get to the levels that we deserve. So it was global. Straight away, us predominant. And then I would say Australia and then the Asian countries.   [00:14:53] OK, let's get into some of the logistics. So am I correct? It's a fit collective stands for females in information technology.   [00:15:03] OK. And so that's where you're getting the acronym. When was it founded? Did you take any funding? Do you have any co-founders and. Yeah. Let's start with those three.   [00:15:15] OK. Awesome. So the website started May 2018 and that was just made blogging about my experience as a female in tech and talking about the different areas of life. So tech well-being and balance and getting other women in tech to share their stories and their advice and how they got to where they are today and what I found in doing that. It was very time consuming and I'm not a natural writer at all. That's something that I've struggled with. Having a mother who comes from the Netherlands, I guess her English wasn't his strong suit, ADA. So it was very time consuming for me. And I thought I was doing a disservice to those women by not sharing their stories to a wider audience. So that's when my partner, Joe Norson, thought that launching a podcast would be a great idea. So the podcast launched in September 2019, and it's absolutely skyrocketed since then. And I love doing it.   [00:16:21] And then your last question was about the fandoms reality. Yeah. You and what did you found it alone. And since have you brought on other founders? If so, and did you bootstrap or get funding?   [00:16:33] So will I. So I founded it by myself initially, but my partner, Joan Auton, I would also classify him as a puppet found on whether he likes it or not. But it honestly wouldn't be where it is today without him. I wouldn't have slept through so many hoops outside of my comfort zone to launch the bug and the website. And he's very technical and helped me a lot with the Web site and is a very good writer. So you raids and edits everything that I write. So I definitely classify him as a founder, if not the same, when helping me lead the way. And in terms of funding, no, it's all self-funded by myself. So I'm very grateful that I do have a very good salary at Salesforce to help fund my business. But it is getting to the stage where, you know, I am looking for sponsorship. I'm really hoping to increase the amount of podcasts that I release and start advertising on there. But it's a fine line of adding ads to a podcast and making sure those ads are helping my audience. I don't want ads that aren't relevant or that are disrupting their listening and it's not bringing value to them. So, yeah, it's a very fine line. And if you have any advice, I'd love to know how.   [00:17:57] Well, I. The same. No, I think you're right to be very considerate.   [00:18:01] I host four different podcasts and I, I take myself seriously because of the communities that I'm speaking with. Not on the whole as a person, I don't think I take myself that seriously. However, working with women and female identified non binary individuals such as yourself and telling the professional chronicles over the past three years, it's been a struggle. I haven't done a lot of partnerships and sponsorships. We've had offers for acquisition that couldn't go through simply because I couldn't guarantee the authenticity and value staying the same to those audiences. I think it depends on the niche market. You speaking to women? I think that's getting better. I think that the actual industry is growing up before our eyes. Podcasting is was very much so still the Wild West three years ago. And now there seems to be some kind of a tenor, you know, and an appropriate following and things like that. And even though there's still variance in how people put them out, I was always like, where's the structure? Like, how do I know what I'm getting? And I think a lot of those things are carrying over into sponsorship and partnership as well. I think the people are starting to get that. You don't want to just go rogue and have some anti female ads suddenly on your, you know, female podcast. That would be daunting. So I do think that that is happening before our eyes. But I do think you are also very wise to consider those kinds of aspects before you just kind of throw it all into the wind, because you do you have an onus, you have a responsibility to this community that's been sharing stories with you and listening to each other's stories and things like that. And so there's there's a reference, at least for me, that I think is required. I love your work, like your website design. I think it's very clean. There's been a lot of change. I originally came up in Silicon Valley and, you know, the newest rage and stuff like that with website design can be like the worst color of orange for a prom dress that you've ever seen. Like, it's just kind of like you can't fall too quickly for, like, the new things because they're very fad, like. And so I like that your site has like a classic timelessness to it, which I feel like any site that's supposed to be for a collective or that kind of a word has a lot of heti meaning for me. And so I like the the design and what it looks like. But I also like that you very judiciously and succinctly get into like a clear mission, you know, about what you what you're meant to do, what you what you're intending for, the collective and things like that. And I want to kind of ask you about that. I grabbed the quote you it's from your site. It says, Our vision is for 50 percent of the global information technology workforce to be female. And I think that that kind of a mission is cool. I think it's important to say those kinds of things, even though it's it's a lot, you know, it's it's a lot of people would say that and be like maybe, you know, there's a lot that goes along with that. But I like that you're stating it. You also talk about transparency and communication and all of these values that you really you uphold in the collective. And I want to kind of unpack that a little bit more and see where some of the future or current action items are in how they're meeting up with those philosophies. So can can you kind of speak two main areas of conversation that your collective is happening or are there initiatives that people are getting behind? Is it as much as petitions being signed or are there any things that people are actually doing to start putting some of these goals into actual work, real action items?   [00:21:36] Yeah,  there is a lot that's happening. And I'm so grateful that a lot of Mella allies are running these petitions and pushing for regulations to be changed. So in Australia, there's a lot happening with equal pay and southpaws. That itself has you know, I think they've balanced the pay by twelve million dollars now to ensure that all of the employees, no matter what race, gender, religion, that they're paid the equal as their colleagues. There is a lot of movement like that happening and having paternity leave. So giving men the option to be able to take that paternity leave. Scandinavia's definitely leading the way. Then they make it mandatory. So you either use it or lose it. So when an employer is looking to hire male or female, both of them could have the opportunity to take twelve months of the year. So there's no discrimination and there's no unconscious bias when hiring a male or female. So that's knocked off the park straight away. That is a lot of it's not. Some organizations are a little bit more aggressive, and that's not the approach that I would like to take. Like I mentioned before, men are out of the picture. And Fickett Collective isn't about females taking over the world. It's just about simple equality.   [00:23:03] And it's funny when you look more and more into it and say how many aspects of the organization molded to fit a man's world. So, for example, the air conditioning, that's at a level that is most comfortable to men and not women. Women like it a little bit more woma. So it's just simple things like that that organizations are becoming more aware of. And I don't think any organization is purposefully making unconscious bias or discriminate discrimination against any gender or religion or so forth. I think it's just more about being open and aware of what is equal and that we're not asking for anything more than what a man would ask for. So there is a lot happening. I wouldn't say this petition, so forth. I don't think we need to get ahead. But there are slightly changing regulations all over the Web.   [00:24:00] Do you make goals? And if so, is it a collective? How does it work when you have so many people kind of belonging to this union? And has that changed since the launch?   [00:24:12] Do you make goals as to what you would like to see it be a part of what you would like to see fit? Collective have. It's like some print on its like signature too. Or are you still kind of forming that?   [00:24:28] Yeah, it's, it's funny because I'm so passionate about it collective and I'm so passionate about Salesforce. I could not think about losing one of the other. So I'm very big goes by. But then it comes that whole lot of balancing and fame really stake in what you can and can't achieve. So I guess within the first next three years, what I would like to do is really increase the cost, because that is saying such an incredible shift. And the reviews and the direct message, things that I get on Instagram and on LinkedIn, I just mind. And I have a best selling authors contacting me, asking me to be on their podcast. And I have women messaging me, opening up to the stories that they've had that they resonated with some of the guests that I've had on the show. Like, it's just it honestly, those guys would cry because I'm so grateful to be able to have that impact on a female and make them feel like that they can have it all and that they can pursue their wildest dreams and they are worthy of receiving that. So the first one to call is increasing that tech podcast frequency. So currently it's fortnightly and so hopefully get it to weekly, then create a number of eight learning programs to really help women in tech accelerate their career. So I've got one. Got a few ideas, but I've got one that's due to be launched soon. And then I have a really ambitious idea, and that's to develop an and pay for a female centric productivity app. So I'm super excited about bots and as well as, you know, really big goals for Salesforce as well. So really big goes there. And I'm very ambitious to get them. But as long as I'm putting my mental and physical health as a priority, because that's everything that I talk about and it's really important and then not intact, then you can't possibly table the goals that you want to.   [00:26:37] That's absolutely true. And it's it's good to recognize it young.   [00:26:41] I think a lot of the women that I speak to and female identified individuals are, you know, in a place of of a little bit more pain and sacrifice after they've come to that conclusion. It's good to recognize that at a younger age. I'm curious about your podcast. And I'm I so I had the opportunity. You're in Australia. We talked about this prerecording and I had the opportunity to be in Sydney and actually do a couple of podcasts there. And I went to a meetup group based on local podcasters there and had the opportunity to speak in and kind of share the platform idea. I wasn't sure how different it would be where you're at versus my side of the globe. But I did learn that there is a lot of different networks and there's a lot of different ways, like you said, ads and things like that. There's a lot of podcasters in the states that are just, you know, cow people. They will just kind of up and bootstrap it all and just figure it out as they go. And they don't really think about those things. And I found at least a lot of my Australian counterparts to be very thoughtful and particular. At said that at that pace that they were finally out. When I am when I met up with them at the Meetup group and I'm wondering with you. Are you on? So I know your podcast is you can locate it on your website. But are you hosted on other networks? You. Australia has a very famous podcasting female network that Kelly Glover. I interviewed her and she used to work for it, but it was one of the first ones I had ever even heard of, even including in the States. But I'm wondering if you have if you host it yourself or if it's nestled in different indexes, how does that work for you guys down under.   [00:28:25] Yes. So I didn't know about that old female podcast racing. You'll have to have to look out for her up after this episode. That's really interesting. Sorry, it's just on all the regular podcast channels like Apple and Spotify and Stanzler and Chain I Heart Radio. So on my Web site. I do think that. I have had a few emails lately that it is opening up into the Scandinavian countries and I just assumed that they would be there already. I don't know if you've had the same as well. So I would assume that it's that it's available globally. But that could be naive of me to think that.   [00:29:08] Well, I wasn't sure either.   [00:29:10] I actually did podcasts about a year and a half ago out of Sweden and Ireland, and I wasn't sure when I was there. And the people that I contacted, I gave them just my natural like I tune Spotify address. And and I did get notifications. They were all able to access it. But I also got notifications that they're kind of doing their own hosting of channels and things like that. I think people again, you know, you're kind of witnessing the toddler doom of of podcasting. It's growing up before our eyes, which is kind of a ride. I mean, you how how frequently can you say that? It's like being around when the computer first launched, it would have been a riot. So that's interesting. So I'm wondering, given that you're doing this within the podcasting, as you know, this kind of beloved creature of yours, how is it based? Are you doing an all interview based? How are you running a length? Are you picking topics? Are you lousing the collective to weigh in on what is spoken about? How does all of that work when you're doing your fortnightly podcast?   [00:30:10] Yeah. So it's a combination. So when I first started, because I was a bit nervous thing behind the mike, I thought that someone would just be my partner, Joel and I, talking about some of the challenges that women in tech face and how to overcome them, as well as acknowledging some of the discrimination that men have as well. Second, for example, you know, I don't know if you have them in the States, but Father's Day Marquises is typically at seven a.m. and then Mother's Day breakfast is at 10 a.m. So there's discrimination on both ways. Assuming that the father is working and the mother is not just talking about some of those things and that it's also difficult for men to leave work early to pick up that child, it's often that thinking, well, why isn't the female doing that? So this discrimination bikeway. So I really want to have him on the show to have it ensure that we have that collective, at least from a male and female standpoint. And just in my preliminary launch, I hadn't even launched a podcast yet. It was just all marketing and showing little sound bites of the podcast. I actually had the CIO of Susan Group, which is a huge Aussie fashion brand here in Australia, contacted me saying I wanted to be on your cost and I'd love to be interviewed. And I'm looking at my Poncho's thinking what this was meant to be. Season two, I'm not ready to interview people, especially not a CIO of a major fashion company. You're kidding. And then just like, what are you doing? Forget season one. Get her on the show. You just need to learn and guide for it is sort of being ad hoc since then. I definitely get the input of my collective. I ask all the time on Instagram what are the topics that they want me to talk bad? Or I ask specific questions like what are some of the challenges that they're facing currently right now and get their input. And we do talk about a lot of those topics. And then with the interviews with the guests, I've been very fortunate. A lot of them have come to me to be on the podcast, and I initially have a 30 minute conversation with them and look at their background and had some ideas of the topics that we can talk about and then get a feel of what they're comfortable in and what they're passionate about and what is the impacts that they want to make. When the podcast is finished. How do they want to transform a female and text lives? Or how do they want to help a male ally help women in tech get to the top?   [00:32:43] So, you know, it's it's definitely very collaborative. And I am. Very proud that they guess that I've had on the show a very authentic and talk about the challenges. That's really, really important to me. And I do try my best to pull them out and be vulnerable and open because that's where people really start to relate. So, yes, it's definitely a combination of everything that you talked about.   [00:33:10] Just fantastic. I think the goal to I mean, you know, Melinda Gates was telling David Letterman on his inquiry's show that launched a couple of years ago.   [00:33:19] She just said, listen, if we have to keep women at the table, there's less women in tech right now than 10 years ago. And it's a huge concern for, you know, women who are allied to women in tech or women who are in tech. I have two daughters for that reason alone. I mean, you know, it's it's scary to think that we're losing our place at the table because we will lose our voice in the future. And the future is tech. And we want to have a seat at that table. And we need about 50 percent of those seats. Not one, you know. And so I think it's so crucial to have organizations like yours and Fit Collective like out there sharing stories, making sure we're still having these important conversations.   [00:34:02] And to be clear, you know, pay parity, sexism across all boards, across all genders, it services nobody. Men lose out, women lose out. Non binary people we all lose. There I can show everyone that paradigm very, very quickly. Any kind of bigotry actually doesn't service to society very well. And that's why ones that go about eliminating it have a happier work life balance and just a happier citizenship in general. So it's definitely for you know, I have two boys and two girls and it's for everyone. But I do think that your mission is as audacious and awesome and I love it. Olympic collective. I love everything about it. We're wrapping up and running out of time, which I wish we weren't going to. I mean, I'll go into my final question, which I am I'm known for. It's one of my favorite. Everyone's like, are you ever going to change it? I was like, No, never. And I'll be forever. So if you were at a safe social distance from someone and a gardener a park tomorrow and they walked up to you and it was a young woman or female identified not by an individual, anyone other than a straight white male for purposes of this podcast. And they said, listen, tomorrow, I'm so glad I caught you. So check it out. I know I had this incredible background in sport. And I am. I went in to uni. I got my stuff done. I thought I was gonna go back to the spa and up not doing it. And then it turned out that I was setting something at uni that I had to kind of pivot. Then people gave me two options and I chose the harder of the option. I found my niche. I found this company. This works that I'm obsessed with. And I'm getting ready to launch this this side Passion Hustle project that I'm just I'm related to do it, but I'm getting ready to do it without a whole lot of mentorship. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now?   [00:35:57] I would definitely say ensure that this is your purpose. The purpose is very different to following your passion. And I think a lot of people get confused between the two and your passions change, just like in my story. My passion was circus than it was accounting. But they change your purpose, doesn't it? And I was very, very grateful to find that very early in my life. And it is tough finding it. You have to dig really, really deep and open all the skeletons out of your closet to understand what that is. Because if you follow your passion, you end up just creating a job for yourself. And that's no different to what you are doing today. Whereas if you follow your purpose, you're intrinsically motivated to continue even through the most challenging times. So I'd say that would be the first piece of advice. The second is just get started. It's so easy to get caught in a trap of striving for perfection, whereas you just need to get it and they pay out that test the market. Is there an audience? I start with an instant. Family can do whatever way that works for you. And then just test it. Right. Test it. Right. And then you evolve and build a product that you're really, really proud of. And the third one, if I can only choose three to get a mentor, I wouldn't be where I am today without my mentors. So with that, my partner, John Wharton, and the mentors that I have at schools and outside of Salesforce, they are a big part of where I am today.   [00:37:29] Yeah, absolutely. And I'm not sure the end the word mentor, like there's a lot of people calling it different things, but I, I don't know of anyone who got to happiness or the top of a mountain or hill without some kind of an advisor, teacher, a mentor that they could really guide themselves by.   [00:37:47] All right. So I've got to ensure that this is your purpose. It's different from your passion. So recognize what your purposes and make sure that this endeavors that just get started and get a mentor. Absolutely. Yeah. Fantastic. Those are perfect. Three, I love this. And they really do cross like industry genre. Like you could tell that to a young artist. It's perfect. The next biochemist.   [00:38:12] Well, Tamara we're out of time, but I wish we weren't. And I thank you so much.   [00:38:16] I know you got up early for this and I know you're busy. Everyone is. But you in particular. And I really appreciate you sharing your story and your candor and all of your information with us today.   [00:38:28] Thank you so much, Patricia. I've had a lot of fun, and I wish you all the success that I'm looking forward to here in the process when it gets launched.   [00:38:35] You bet. You as well. And for everyone listening, we've been speaking with Tamara Johanna clink and you can find out more. She's the founder of Fit Collective. And you can look it up online. It's Ficke collective dot com.   [00:38:48] Thank you for giving us your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself.  Slainte!    

Today I chat with Lynn Power. Lynn is a longtime ad agency executive with a love for beauty. She's been fortunate to work on many iconic brands, including the Gillette Venus global marketing launch, Clinique global, L'Oreal Natural Match launch and VIVE relaunch, Nexxus repositioning, Vichy positioning and La Roche-Posay and St. Ives. She has done lots of other categories too including American Express, Hershey's, Campari, Kimberly-Clark, Nestle, T. Rowe Price. . . She loves building teams, reinventing cultures and disruption. Lynn is currently the CEO of MASAMI (Botanical hair products). This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.    TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with CEO of botanical hair company Masami Lynn Power. Key points addressed where Lynn Dynamic 25 year history as a top level exhibit in New York City's elite ad agencies and her new endeavor at Masami, an organic and Vegan hair care line with a devout backing and responsible and ethical ingredients and ethos. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Lynn Power.   [00:00:32] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:29] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia, today. I am so excited to be sitting down with Lynn Power.   [00:01:34] Lynn is the CEO of Masami, which is a botanical hair product company. You can find out more about her and the company at w w w dot. Love Masami dot com. That is l o v e m a. S a. Am I dot com. Welcome, Lynn.   [00:01:51] Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.   [00:01:53] Absolutely. I'm excited to kind of climb through your personal background as well as Masami, the company. I actually really like a lot of the direction that it's headed and it has a lot of very similar constituents to the work that we do. Patricia, Kathleen Podcast's, in regards to responsibility towards the Earth and everything that it's doing for everyone listening. I will read a brief bio on Lynn before I start peppering her with questions. But prior to that, a quick road map for today's podcast. For those of you that are new, it's following the same trajectory. The four core constituents that all of them in podcast series. This one do cover. So we will first look at Lynn, academic background and early professional life. Then we'll turn towards and packing Masumi. We'll get into logistics about who, what, when, where, why, how founders', how long it's been around all of those things, what it is, the products. And then we'll turn to the ethos and some of the philosophy that this particular company actually enumerates on quite beautifully and has a lot to say about that. Our third point, we'll reach in two Lynn's goals and plans for the next one to three years and both with Mussomeli and maybe personally. And how this to kind of intertwine. We'll wrap everything up with advice that she has regarding her success, her legacy, what she's done with her professional life and her current work. But prior to that, as promised, a quick bio on Lynn. Lynn is a longtime ad agency executive with a love for beauty. She's been fortunate enough to work on many iconic brands, including the Gillette, Venus Global Marketing Launch, Clinique Global L'Oreal Natural Match Launch and Veev Relaunch Nexus Repositioning, Vicha Positioning and Larocque Laroque Post say. I'm probably not saying what is right. I'll let Lin correct me in a second. And St. Ives. She has done lots of other categories too, including American Express, Hershey's, Campari, Kimberly Clark Ness, Nazli T. Rowe Price. She loves building TMD and reinventing cultures and disruption, which I love that you can contact her at her current position and find more about the website again at w w w dot love Masami dot com. So Lynn, I. You've had an amazing career you've worked with. There's not a personal life that hasn't heard of one of these brands and the ad agency. One can only imagine the kind of wealth that you've developed. And I am hoping that you can prior to unpacking less of me, I'm hoping you can kind of walk us through an understanding or summary of your academic background and professional life prior to go into Masami.   [00:04:32] Yeah, sure. So unlike my children today who are 19 and 17 and are kind of now having to figure out what they're wanting to do and figure out their majors very early.   [00:04:47] I had no idea.   [00:04:50] And I actually was a double major of criminal justice and English. And I was thinking for a hot minute that I was going to go into law school. But then I was like, oh, that's just boring. I can't do that. So then I decided I wanted to go into the FBI and I went through the whole application process and it was nineteen eighty nine. And there was a hiring freeze. It was a recession. And I got kind of a form letter back saying thanks but no thanks. You know, you've kind of you've made the you've made the list supposedly, but we're not hiring. So check back in in six months kind of thing. I was living at home at my parents' house, so I was like, that's just not going to work. So I met a recruiter who sent me on an interview for advertising and she said, this is what you're gonna do. And I was like, oh, I hadn't really thought about it. It was interesting, but I didn't go to school for it at all. I've never taken up advertising or marketing class and set me on an interview. And I was a really good typist. And so they hired me as a receptionist. And from there, I just love the culture, the creativity. And I kind of was able to just work my way up and I just I just really enjoyed it. So, you know, I went from a small agency in Chicago to a bigger agency in Chicago. And then I met my my boyfriend now husband at the time we moved to New York. And then, you know, I was able to at least stretch stretch my wings at the New York shops. And I worked at several of the of the large funds all the way up until. My last job at J. Walter Thompson, I was CEO of the New York office.   [00:06:32] Wow, amazing. It does. So it is for everyone listening. You know, I have this very Hollywood version of the advertising agency.   [00:06:40] I must say, like, my internal knowledge is probably limited to what I've seen on, like, Mad Men or something.   [00:06:46] But I'm wondering, is it is it is it is New York City really the kind of the nexus of advertising its kind of perceived? You know, I think among a lot of lay people as like this heart, this heart throb heart center of the advertising world, would you concur with that?   [00:07:02] Yeah, I absolutely would. And I think if you're really serious about the business, you just can't beat the experience you get at a New York agency. So you don't have to do it forever. I thought I was going to do it for two years maybe. And then I ended up being in New York for 25 years. You are kind of just grabs you and doesn't let go, you know, and you just have to go with it.   [00:07:25] It's amazing the time period that you were in as well. I mean, and it's probably it's probably my age. I'm forty three.   [00:07:31] But, you know, that time period and advertising, it went through almost a diabolical, like up and down. I feel like the 80s, the 90s and the 90s in particular, you know, it was a disconnect, a reconnect. It is particularly because the society itself was like having these schizophrenic breaks with health and things like that that were so pushed, you know, in the advertising industry. But like fat free, sugar free additives, this that preservatives, like all these different things that were kind of chronicled in a lot of different caveats in society. But I imagine it would have been a really wild ride to be involved in during that time period. Would you? Do you think you feel that way now or looking back, do you think now the advent of social media really shook things up? It was the OTS that really changed things?   [00:08:17] No, it was definitely an interesting industry to be in for sure. It's changed massively. I mean, there's so many things that have changed about it since I started. You know, primarily the the way that the industry was was monetized was through people and hours. And clients just don't pay the kind of fees anymore. So you don't have the ability to put the people in the hours and all that stuff. So there's a lot of there's there's a huge sort of seismic shift happening and things being much more accountable, things being working, obviously digital and more analytical, you know, so creativity has become more analytical. But I was definitely very much in still felt like the Madmen era, looking back where I didn't you know, I grew up with two brothers. I'm very comfortable around men. So I wasn't sort of as overtly aware at the time of of the sort of sexism. I mean, I knew it was there. But looking back, of course, I go, oh, my God, I can't believe that happens, you know, because today you wouldn't you wouldn't allow those some of those things to happen. But, you know, at the time when you're in it and you're kind of looking around and there aren't many other women, you just sort of try to do what you can do to to, you know, prove yourself. And I'm lucky that I never had any sexual assault or any, you know, any anything other than, you know, sort of verbal and verbal dressing down kind of things happen.   [00:10:03] I'm wondering, as a female who climbed through the ranks, did you know of any others? Were you friends with other women or women identified or non binary individuals that were also hitting like this successful stride of climbing that corporate ladder?   [00:10:19] Or were you all alone? It was changed throughout the years. You know, there was a time when I was in one of the agencies I worked at, I was pretty much the top woman there. And I will say, unfortunately, a lot of the female bosses I had in my early years were really bad bosses. It's almost like they felt they had to operate like men and be these tyrants. And it actually helps form my leadership style because I didn't want to be like that. I was like, wow, if that's how you think you have to behave to get people in line, that is not good. So, you know, it's almost like when you're raising kids and they do the opposite of what you tell them, you know, it's like I had a lot of role models that were really bad, actually. And I kind of decided when I got to senior enough point that I don't want to emulate this very rough, rough male swagger, arrogance, you know, that's not at all who I am. And if people don't like it and I don't get promoted anymore, well, then fine.   [00:11:37] That's just the way it is. But I think I was lucky that.   [00:11:44] I think the female leadership traits are more effective, ultimately listening, being more transparent, you know, having vulnerability. I think those are things that people actually appreciate. So, you know, I think any women listening out there, you know, those are things you should embrace. You should not shy away from.   [00:12:06] Yeah. Particularly for your industry.   [00:12:08] It's always shocking to me when someone says, you know, that the creative or more discussion oriented or ideas sharing personality doesn't survive in creative endeavors like advertising. I cannot see a doctor, you know, who chain smokes and drinks like a fish. It's just like what does your her expertize isn't being lived out, you know? And I. I wonder when as you climb up through the ranks, you yourself be turned to hiring and things of that nature. What kind of personalities were you kind of bringing on to work with you and under you to kind of facilitate what you're describing here, which is just a more. It sounds to me like a more communicative environment.   [00:12:49] I mean, I was always overtly hiring women and diverse people. I would demand my H.R. teams find those candidates, even though it's harder to find. And, you know, I wouldn't always hire them, but but I made a point of, you know, really trying to lean in heavily and bring in women and bring in people of color. And I heard a guy in a wheelchair. People said to me, you're crazy milk travel. You know, what are we? He was great. No issue. But I think I think you just have to kind of demand that. And then in terms of the traits of the people, I always look for people that are curious, you know, that that are not close minded people that want to learn, people that are not afraid to, you know, learn from above, but also learn from the people under them in the sense of like I get a lot of learning these days from my children and from younger people that I that I work with. And it's really a two way street. So as much as, you know, sometimes they look to me for my experience. I look to them for their know how when it comes to tick tock or. And yet many other things that I don't understand. Right. So I think it really is about that vulnerability of admitting what you don't know. Being open and willing and curious. And I think those traits will get you pretty far.   [00:14:20] Yeah. And cognitive functioning, you know, and studies done. Geriatric communities would back you up on that one. You know, staying curious, which are people you hired and then you're doing yourself, you know, is linked to longevity of the mind of the vital mind and cognition.   [00:14:35] So I think those span all throughout life, not just the advertising industry. I think that's fantastic. I'm wondering with the I like what you said, and I'm hoping to just get you to enumerate a little bit on it, because it you just reverse the power structure that I think most people feel like H.R. and hiring has. You said I would make my H.R. team go out and find those people. And I think that there's a lot of conversation, particularly in female female identified and non binary communities where people say, like, well, I want to hire a woman led company, but I can't find any like I don't know. And it's it's becomes this crutch, you know, not just for these communities, but for people outside of those communities to not say they're not represented. You know, I'm not most familiar with female female identified, non binary and computer engineers, people saying I want to hire more female tech nerds, but they're not out there. They're not, you know, and you switching that dialog and taking that power and saying, no, you go find them to H.R. is such a novel idea.   [00:15:37] I've never heard anyone describe it that way. What what kind of incited you to do that? Were you just determined to have it and you made them go out and find it? Because I could. Eight years is very good at saying. Here you go. This is all we got.   [00:15:49] You know, any industry what I figured out is like shit in, shit out. Right. So, you know, if you give them a shitty brief, they're gonna give you shitty candidate. I'm not saying, look, good shit, but they'll give you what you ask for. Yeah. And usually it's the same old. Same old. And what I believe in and I'm actually quite good at it. It's one of my superpowers is building teams and I'm really good at identifying talent. And thankfully so I don't have to do everything to bring in people that are great. And I've always hired on potential, not on proven capability, meaning you just have to widen the net a little bit, you know, because if you only hire people for the Campari account that have worked in liquor and, oh, I need somebody who actually worked in brown spirits, you know, that kind of thing. And, oh, I want them to be this kind of education. You're going to find candidates that look exactly alike, that are just like the people that left that job. And a lot of times they do tend to be very, you know, either their. I want to say, you know. Maybe they're white guys. But but but but even beyond that, they tend to go to the same schools. They tend to have some of the same experiences and have worked at similar places. And I've just always believed that you're going to get better creativity when you find people that come from different, completely different walks of life, different industries, different. So I never cared about where I went to school. I literally couldn't care. And so I think once you open up the ability to find candidates that look a little different. And I'd say, you know what? I actually don't want to hire someone for that job that has any lack of experience. I want to bring in somebody that, you know, maybe they've works in event marketing or maybe they've done something in PR or, you know, something related. But but useful. Then you can find those interesting candidates and then, you know. It was a lot easier for the H.R. people because if I if I was hammering away at finding me that same candidate but, you know, find me a black woman who's done it. That's hard. Hanukkah's because she hasn't been given the opportunity to do that job before. Absolutely.   [00:18:06] I'm wondering, how did you. Do you have any. I'll leave this point alone. I promise. I know this is my third question to her, but I'm so taken with it, I.   [00:18:14] Do you have any, like, tricks that you developed, even subconsciously in order to help you? I mean, this superpower of, you know, super hero power, a building super tenuous, is like everybody wants that. You know, that's the key to success. People build industries just to try to take a taste of it. And so I'm wondering, did you personally ever develop this kind of technique or specific thing that you did when you went looking to build these super teams that enabled you to do that you can share?   [00:18:47] You know, I wish I did. I wish I could say, oh, it's just this, you know, do one one, two, three. And you're you're there. But I think a lot of it is intuition. And part of it is building that muscle of knowing what works. And what I would say is one thing I did. That is a very tactical, tangible thing anyone can do. And I've done my pretty much my whole career, but much more aggressively in my later years of my career. I would meet with. Anywhere between three and five new people that I didn't know a week, and sometimes it would be for a job, but a lot of times it wasn't. It was just I got introduced to this person from somebody else and they sound interesting. And let's grab a coffee. And I think when you do that, you can start to your brain creates these like neural networks where you can connect the dots. And I go, oh, the thing that person did was so interesting. I would love to have that skill set. And in my team, I find somebody who's got some of that, you know what I mean? And you just start to build these bridges and start to become inspired by by all these different. But I think I think a lot of that came from meeting all these different people all the time. And I would meet people outside my industry and I would just meet interesting people. And, you know, I think people started to kind of know like if they reached out to me on LinkedIn, chances are I'm going, oh, sure, I'll meet with you, you know. Now, I can get a little crazy, obviously. Yeah. You got to protect your own schedule somewhat. But no. But I think, you know, it's not that hard to carve out a few hours a week. And, you know, sometimes nothing would come from it. But a lot of times it would either be like, oh, I actually know somebody who could help you and what you're trying to do or you just inspired me to give me a great idea on something that I'm working on. Or it just there's a lot of serendipity, but it kind of forces the serendipity. You know what I mean?   [00:20:46] Yeah, absolutely. And I like it. And it was I think it was a lot trickier to do that back in the day, you know, without social media and things like that.   [00:20:54] You kind of had to do this seven degrees of Kevin Bacon thing and, you know, so said what's going on there? And I'm curious, I want to start looking at unpacking Masami and and all of the cool things that that company is doing. Is that your sole endeavor at this moment is serving as their CEO or do you run any other side gigs or consulting firms, anything like that?   [00:21:17] Yeah, I wish I could say it was my sole endeavor because I love it. It's my baby, but I probably spend about 90 percent of my time doing that.   [00:21:26] I still do a little consulting because I had started a brand consulting firm after I left J. Walter Thompson. It's called the HMS Beagle. So we work almost exclusively with startups and helping them get their kind of foundation and narrative and go to market plan.   [00:21:39] So I still do a little bit of that because I need like everyone else, you got to pay the bills. And on Masami, we when I met my partner. So my co-founder. So he and I basically are the co-founders of friends. We decided to do this together, but we decided to self-funded, you know. So we haven't taken investment money. I mean, my husband is basically our lead investor. I could say that, but. So, you know, it literally is our baby. And every every dollar we get back, we're putting back into the business. So tell us. A little strapped. Yeah. Super bootstrapped. But this is where, you know, I am lucky because I've built a team that is pretty committed to the business that is all kind of equity based. So they're all sort of partners in the company. And I could not do it without them. Or sure.   [00:22:42] Let's get into it. I want to know. So you were a CO felt you were a founder.   [00:22:46] How many other founders were there and when was it launched?   [00:22:52] So it's just James and I were the two founders of the company. James is my partner. He had been working on these hair care formulations for almost 10 years. When I met him, he's he's a bit of a nutty professor in the best way possible. I say that with love. He worked at Clairol for about 20 years and worked on a bunch of other Pudi brands. And he was the guy, the Uber producer, that would book a lot of the models and would be the one that would get yelled at when he had to color their hair and colored back and it would be fried. So he just started to feel like there's got to be a product out there that's not going to, you know, that's going to actually hydrate and help their hair. And also not have all the toxins that the products on the market have. So he started doing research into formulations. And our product is really inspired by his husband, Mozza. Hence, the name Masami Massa is Japanese. He's from northeast Japan.   [00:23:55] And Masami also means truly beautiful, by the way, in Japanese. So that was another serendipitous moment when we found that out. Yes. But, James, you would go home with Mozza. And he was always amazed at how young massas family looked and how healthy. And, you know, the Japanese have the lungs. Life expectancy in the world. And so James started doing some digging into their diet and saw that they were consuming this ocean botanical comic copy that comes right out of their bay pretty much every day.   [00:24:22] But they would also grind it up and put it in their skin care in their haircare and began playing around with that as potentially the answer for hydration, which it was.   [00:24:33] But by the time I met James, he had the products about eighty, eighty, eighty five percent done.   [00:24:40] And he just didn't know what else to do. He's not a marketer. He's not a brand guy. And he. Yes. So we met and he was kind of taking me through everything. I was super skeptical. Because as someone who's done a lot of marketing. I usually have a product that's kind of shit. And you have to make it sound great. And I'm just I'm not used to having a product that's absolutely amazing already, you know? And so we did a little more tweaking to the formula to just clean it up a little bit more.   [00:25:12] We follow EU standards, which are much stricter than the US in terms of what goes in in the US market.   [00:25:18] People don't realize about 90 percent of the products on the market have toxic stuff in them. So, you know, people don't think it's much about the hair care.   [00:25:27] I think it's a little more there's more awareness and skin care casino. It's absorbing into your skin. But the reality is your scalp is actually one of the most absorbent areas of your body. And when you shampoo, when you're rubbing it in your head and it's got sulfates, impairments of phthalates, that's not very that's not very good. So part of what we wanted to do is, is create a product without that. But one of the reasons why it's it's so it's so disruptive is that most hair care products that are clean as we are are actually not very good performing products. Right.   [00:26:06] Yeah. And this in line is the dichotomy. And I spoke to you earlier about this, and I have another podcast.   [00:26:13] I'm tempting you on exploring Vegan worlds. And, you know, here Vegan they think of food. And if there's clothing designers that are sustainability, environmental impacts, there's all different angles and conversations with the Vegan empire. And this is one of the ones that they talk a lot about Vegan products. You know, people assume a couple of things. One that is naturally non toxics, which isn't always true. And also there tends to be on the plus side, there tends to be more of a conversation about what exactly the the Vegan conversation furthers responsibility and things like that. You know, they're supposed to be more of a packaging and things like that. And I'm curious how I looked at the philosophy. And I want to kind of climb into the institute and the studies about getting back into the environmental impact with Masami. Can you kind of speak to is it James who kind of led this research part institute to the product is actually James's husband, Mozza.   [00:27:18] So when we launched the brand and one of the things that was really important to us is to have a mission and a purpose and not just sell product. And we just are very big believers that when you take from the earth, you have to get back. It's just as simple as that. And so the area in northeast Japan where we get our my Cabu and we get it from a local family owned seaweed company, we've actually gone and visited them and saw their facility and really were very impressed with how they manage everything.   [00:27:51] Anyway, where were we get that? We they were devastated by the tsunami back in 2011. That still has not they feel that they haven't fully recovered from, believe it or not. So we were against serendipity, fortunate to find a guy named Kazoo Yoshino who moved from Tokyo. He was an I.T. director. And when the tsunami hit, he felt this calling to move up to Atsushi, this little tiny town, and it was facing flat. The town was pretty much flat.   [00:28:27] And he decided to go up there and help in his way of helping as he dives into the bay and he documents what's going on there with the growth with the ocean botanicals. And he was the one that figured out probably now would have been about two or three years ago that there was a huge sea urchin problem. The sea urchins had been washed into the bay and we're applying and we're basically eating all of the stuff that the people there relied on and had thrown the ecosystem completely out of balance. So anyway, we decided to form the Masami Institute, where we can donate part of our sales to help his research so that he's just got more resources to continue to do what he's been doing. And a lot of it is educating people. So the way he saw the sea urchins problem is he had people eat the sea urchins. So, you know, we're the top of the food chain. And it was like, wait a minute, you know, they're eating all of our good stuff. We should just eat them. And so he created a magazine and had all these sea urchin recipes because apparently in that region, people would eat sea urchins like on Christmas Day. It was like a delicacy. You know, it wasn't something they did all the time.   [00:29:44] And he really helped change it and get it basically get that whole bay back on track. So that's been really interesting. So, you know, in a perfect world, we'd like to not just fund his research, but but also move beyond that little tiny area of Japan that we're focused on. But one thing at a time. You know, our feeling was let's start where we can make an impact and then we'll move out from there.   [00:30:13] Cool. Can you speak to given, you know, your advertising and marketing career prior to coming on with Masami, I'm wondering, how have you kind of sculpted it's got this beautiful narrative that you've just kind of walked over with us with the environment and sustainability. And if you take you give back. And how has that played into the rhetoric that you try to communicate with marketing or packaging or any of those endeavors that you've looked at?   [00:30:42] Have you allowed that that dialog to carry through or pushed it through?   [00:30:47] I think there's a place for where you tell that story and then there's a place where people just want to know, does it work, you know?   [00:30:54] Yeah. Like, is it going to actually work? Does it hydrate my hair and all that stuff? So beauty's funny that way. I think that's why a lot of beauty brands have that way without having to have any purpose or give back because people are just, you know, want to just know that it's going to perform. Mm hmm. So, yeah. So I think as we've developed our content strategy and narrative, we've figured out when and where it was. World Ocean Day on yesterday, on the 8th. So that's a great place where we could kind of reinforce that message. And, you know, we try to do that regularly. I mean, my biggest challenge on us being a pro ocean brand is our plastic because we're in plastic bottles. You know that the hard part about being in hair care is that you're in the shower. So you have a limited number of aerials that you can work with. And glass is usually the go to for beauty brands. Right? Can't really be in glass bottles in the shower.   [00:31:51] So we are actually creating a large size, refillable, sustainable bottle that's beautiful.   [00:31:58] That will go in the shower that you can refill with cardboard packages. And I'm excited about that because I feel like that will help us. Yeah. And mitigate ah ah. Plastic issue.   [00:32:12] I've come to that myself. I dabble in depends on my ambition for the month.   [00:32:17] But I dabble in making I make all of our own hand soaps and I've dabbled in shampoos and conditioners. They don't work well. So I kind of quit. But I did get into the idea that I didn't want to keep filling plastic containers. Even reusing plastic, regardless of how safe, doesn't rub me overly well.   [00:32:35] And I came into this glass thing exactly that, you know, and a lot of metals, rust like there isn't a great solution there. So I really like the idea of this one. I think it's groundbreaking.   [00:32:47] I hope it is. I mean, we ended up because of exactly what you're saying. We looked at all different kinds of materials. And, you know, there's bamboo material. It gets moldy. There's there's just different issues. And so we ended up doing a ceramic bottle, which people say to me, and it can still break Mike. I know, but it's not going to have little shards of pain that you're gonna step on. It's going to break into chunks that you can just pick up and throw out and we'll send you a new you know what I mean? Yeah, it's a great idea. So I'm hoping I'm hoping that it sticks. I've had a fair amount of interest so far for preorder, but we're gonna try to get that thing made it out the next time. I hope for five months. It's hard to say with Kobe going on because timelines for a supply chain are all kind of out of whack right now. But anyway, supply chain is out of whack.   [00:33:32] However, I wonder, has interest peaked? You know, health has had Vegan community for any reason.   [00:33:38] Vegan by default, Vegan because of a montera has peaked, you know, over the past three months. Naturally, when you have a pandemic, breaking out makes everyone kind of requestion their own personal health all the way down to, you know, I think a lot of people started with food and things like that. It's just a natural dialog. And then very quickly got into, you know, I myself took and I've I've I've I fancy myself incredibly healthy and have had, like, new analysis and lenses applied to areas that I hadn't thought about with nail polish, you know. Yeah. Things that I should have been thinking about. But I imagine it has spiked for you. Have you guys been able to kind of at least have some chartable measure as to interest since the pandemic has taken hold?   [00:34:21] I mean, yes, but the tricky thing for us is we launched in February. It's sort of like we don't really have a benchmark because we launched at New York Fashion Week a couple weeks right before everything was shut down.   [00:34:35] And we had a you know, in March, it was very up and down. There were two weeks where it was crickets. And I was like, oh, shit. Now then. But then business would pick up again. And I. I do think what you're saying is true, though. The conversations and searching.   [00:34:52] Or solutions that are less toxic, that are clean beauty, that are blue beauty, I think are all happening right now and obviously we are a brand that fits all that. But on top of that, we actually work. So to me, that's like our Holy Grail is.   [00:35:08] Yeah, that's the thing with it, at least with shampoo. And mind you, I'm not a mixologist and I don't pretend to be a chemist, but it's kind of an issue for anyone that's tried to go that route due to toxins or any other thing.   [00:35:23] You know, I flip over free trade, great like sounding shampoos. And the ingredient list is like ninety thousand. And I'm a, you know, masters educated woman and I don't know what half of them are. It's just it's it's lunacy to think that it's still out there like that and not being vilified. So yours working is clean enough. You know, like there's amazing being Vegan it working, like having all of these things. The new ceramic thing, it sounds it sounds amazing. Have you guys projected. I know it's. This is like asking someone about another child when you're in labor. People like how could you ask that? But right now, because, you know, Cauvin has just thrown everyone through an incredible whirlwind. But have you kind of looked at your next one to three year projections as to where you guys would like to be even considering the pandemic and the change that that's happened? And if so, where do you where do you see your sights for your goals for the future?   [00:36:22] Yeah, I mean, I think we're pretty good about doing the rigorous, you know, business metrics. So we have got five year projections.   [00:36:31] I think part of it for us is expanding our footprint and really developing some Ceylan partnerships here in the US. But also launching some more products were we're very much into the Japanese simplicity had space, meaning we're not going to launch another shampoo.   [00:36:49] We're not going to be a brand that has five variants of shampoos are one variant works for virtually everyone. And when it when you get the hydration, you get shine, you get manageability to get volume. It works for color treated hair like you don't need another version of our shampoo. But we are going to launch things like a hair mast, you know, a beard bomb because our products are gender neutral. So I really want to lean into that a little bit more. Yeah. We've got some stuff in the pipeline there, so I would love to get those out. We were gonna try to get them out this year again, but I don't think that's going to happen now. So next year. But and then we'd love to to to go international, you know. I think right now, you know, the priority is to really nail the US. Yeah. But I, I think our products we tested on every ethnicity, every hair type, you know, multiple types of Asian hair.   [00:37:44] And we just got such great response across the board that I do think the audience is much wider than just here and it is gender neutral.   [00:37:53] So we actually I'm I'm surprised we the orders we got today were all men. Yeah. Again, like, we actually have about 40 percent of our sales are men.   [00:38:03] Good. You.   [00:38:05] I think that men's products smell. I think they're discussing they remind me of something that we should have left behind with the thirties, I guess like lime in it or something. That just terrifies me. It's always so daunting.   [00:38:16] Why does it always have to smell like Drakkar from the 80s or something? It's just this awful smell to your shampoos that have been marketed to men should be taken out and given a strong lecture or two. Am I a pain? In my humble opinion?   [00:38:29] I would agree with you. I'm wondering, given everything that you're doing. Well, first of all, can people purchase it? Can we can they have a website? Can they pre order?   [00:38:41] All in all, our full line is is for sale. The ceramic bottle right now is on. I fund women, but we're about to. We're gonna slide that over to our site for pre purchase. But, yeah, everything is for sale. And we're also on Amazon.   [00:38:57] Yes. Excellent.   [00:38:59] And final question before I wrap up and ask you my final final question, which is on your site, you wouldn't be answering to my community if I didn't say, you know, I hit your Web site.   [00:39:11] I do a lot of research for these these chats I have. And I always pull up those pictures. I whites, our team, our story. Who are you? Yeah. Give me. Give me. And I did notice and I told you before we started, I said, why are you the only woman with four men on there? And that's rhetorical. You know, this is how it happens. A lot of industries. But you had some interesting news. So can you kind of speak to your executive staff and what your team looks like right now?   [00:39:38] Yeah. That is not been updated. As I said to you, I was literally just having that conversation with myself this morning thinking, oh, my God, you know, we don't have the right outward reality of our team. So, yeah, I have three other three other people that need to be on there that that are all women that are that are really haw haw, haw, haw to the team.   [00:40:00] One heads up our digital marketing. One heads up our content strategy and one heads up our PR.   [00:40:06] So I am going to be updating that to reflect the full team, which I'm excited about. And we work with, you know, when I hire.   [00:40:18] Editors and photographers and things like that, we're always trying to look for, again, diverse, diverse people, we.   [00:40:26] We do try to make a point of of casting a wide net and finding finding those people to kind of help us when we need help.   [00:40:35] Whether that's, you know, I've got two different women who are people of color, once a designer who's helped us quite a bit, actually. And the other one's an editor who did our brand video for us. So I don't put those people on our website.   [00:40:48] But that's just part of, again, you know, the the magic of finding finding those talent.   [00:40:55] Yeah. And your legacy. It sounds like from your entire career history of what you did in the past. I must say from a bird's eye point of view of looking in and being married to an original Silicon Valley computer nerd and having looked at that industry for the past 20 years from the outside, it's safe to judging distance, is what I like to say. Overly judgmental right here. And I do love your site.   [00:41:19] So they did amazing work. You know, these women, I think it's it's it speaks the esthetic of a stereotypical esthetic of like a Japanese, you know, this simplicity and all of that, which actually sounds like is a lot of the narrative throughout what you're doing. You're not launching, you know, five different shampoos. You've got this one like that clarity from an art historical point of view, which is what I have my master's degree. And that seems very true as well. So it's comforting. It's very interesting to kind of receive that wash over as well. So we're at the final point. My question, my favorite question, they're all my favorites. But if I had to pick one, this would be her. And wondering if you walked up to someone in such safe social distance tomorrow or they walked up Dan Rather and it was a woman or a female identified or not binary individual, pretty much anyone but a straight standard white man. And they said to you, hey, Lynn, you know, I'm so glad to run into you. I've I have this amazing thing I'm doing this 20 year career climbing up the ranks and the ladders in the ad agency. You know, I the epicenter of that world. And I've just left it. I'm endeavoring on this new startup. And I'm so excited with the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now.   [00:42:38] Yeah, I would say build a network, find a support system for yourself.   [00:42:46] You know, that's been really helpful. I'm a I'm part of several female founder groups and, you know, just having other women to talk to about the journey that stress sometimes what happens in my personal life, my teenage casino, all that stuff is is is very helpful. So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing is build your team, which we talked about earlier. But I think the peace around that that I would just reinforce to people that are looking to start a business is it's obvious that you need help. But a lot of people, a lot of women, I shouldn't say, a lot of people, a lot of women think that they need to figure everything out themselves first and then bring in the help. And I would just challenge that and say, I understand what you love to do and what you don't love to do.   [00:43:40] And if it's if there's stuff that you don't love to do, don't feel like you need to get it and understand it and master it, find somebody else to do it. And just like, don't be afraid to acknowledge that you don't want I don't love spreadsheets and numbers and I'm going to bring in somebody and they're going to manage that. Like, that's not a weakness. That's actually really good because you can focus on the things that that you're really good at. And then the third thing I would say is find a mentor, which is a little different than than, you know, you're just getting your network. Find signed several mentors, not just one. And don't wait till once presented to you, you know, go out and find people that you think you know, will help you will inspire you that you can learn from, that have done something that you want to do. And I've had people reach out to me on LinkedIn and say, hey, would you mentor me? I just need an hour. A month. And I'm like, yes, of course. And that's that's it's rewarding for me. It's rewarding for them. And you'll be surprised how generous people can be, I think.   [00:44:46] Absolutely. I love those. I will say that in 200 episodes plus doing this, you're the first person to talk. And your advice, your three advice about your team, about building the team. And I love that because I think it's everything for success.   [00:45:02] Very few people are just the solo producer of their ideas and how quickly we grow.   [00:45:07] And also, you are in company with well over 90 percent of women who say women don't outsource enough. This whole got to do it all. And a lot of people have argued that it's built baked into, you know, the stereo gender roles that we're given in this society where he had to be wife, mother, you know, entrepreneur, like all of these things, you're just expected to do all these things, whereas them stereotypically the male gender has been very, very good about outsourcing, you know, about very, very happy to get a housekeeper. You know, when they don't feel like they clean their house adequately and women assign value to being able to do it themselves in areas that actually deplete businesses. And I would argue even their own livelihoods and happiness in their personal lives. Yeah. So I have no one build a network and a support system. Number two, my favorite, build your team. You do not need to know everything and do everything before you hire out for it. Rather, focus in on what you're good at and what brings you the most success and happiness. And number three, find several mentors and don't wait for one to be presented to you. And those they're very actionable items to it's all very like get to work. Get going. Like, I love that.   [00:46:17] Yep. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for speaking with us.   [00:46:20] Lynn, we're out of time today, but I really appreciate your candor and your advice and you sharing a little bit of your wonderful history and your current endeavors with me. I love it.   [00:46:32] Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.   [00:46:34] Absolutely. For everyone listening. We've been speaking with Lynn Power. You can find out more about Masami, her company on w w w dot love, Masami dot com. I myself am going to be jumping on and grabbing some for certain.   [00:46:48] Thank you for giving me your time today. And until we speak again next time, remember to always bet on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I speak with Ivor Cummins. Ivor Cummins BE(Chem) CEng MIEI PMP completed a Biochemical Engineering degree in 1990. He has since spent over 25 years in corporate technical leadership and management positions. His career specialty has been leading large worldwide teams in complex problem-solving activity.    Since 2012 Ivor has been intensively researching the root causes of modern chronic disease. A particular focus has been on cardiovascular disease, diabetes and obesity.    He shares his research insights at public speaking engagements around the world, revealing the key nutritional and lifestyle interventions which will deliver excellent health and personal productivity. He has recently presented on heart disease primary root causes at the British Association of Cardiovascular Prevention and Rehabilitation (BACPR). He has also debated Irish Professors of Medicine on stage, at the annual conference of the Irish National Institute of Preventative Cardiology (NIPC). This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their research, businesses, lifestyle, and health to various forms of Fasting and the science of Fasting. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. Patricia Kathleen Podcasts   TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors [00:00:00] In this episode, I speak with biochemical engineer, author and international speaker Ivor Cummins, key points addressed were core tenants of his book, Eat Rich, Live Long, in which Ivor enumerates the scientifically backed health benefits of eating a low carb diet. We also talked on aspects of fasting and how both his book and Ivor himself have engaged in fasting practices in order to facilitate and enhance benefits received from a low carbohydrate diet. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Ivor Cummins.   [00:00:39] My name is Patricia Kathleen, and this series features interviews and conversations I conduct with experts from medicine and science to health and humanitarian arenas in an effort to explore the world of fasting from a variety of angles. This dialog is meant to develop a more complete story about the information, research, personal stories and culture in and around the science and lifestyle of fasting. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as founders and entrepreneurs. Vegan life and roundtable topics. They can be found on our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation.   [00:01:31] Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.   [00:01:34] And today, I am very excited to be sitting down with Ivor Cummins. He is an author and chief program officer for Irish Heart Disease Awareness. You can find out more about Ivor and all of his work on the Fat Emperor, or dot com, which is his website. And we will be climbing through that as well as his book today. Welcome, Ivor.   [00:01:55] Thanks a lot, Patricia. Great to be here.   [00:01:57] Absolutely. For those of you that are new to this podcast, I will read a brief bio on Ivor. But before I do that, I want to give everyone an overview of the road map of which our trajectory, the inquiry will be based out of. We took a large part of our podcast inquiry today from you. Public as we reached out and asked everyone what they would like to hear from Ivor on. So I will first spend the first part of it unpacking, Eat Rich, Live Long, which is the book that Ivor has released in tandem with Dr. Jeffrey Gerber. I'll have him unpack the three main sections of that book and some of the core axiomatic details. And then we'll turn straight to the inquiry that all of you have put out there. Namely, we'll look at areas of emphasis that he has in the book and then outside of that, on fasting in general, different types of fasting, fasting, blood glucose levels, things that he's spoken to in the book around that, as well as other knowledge he may have. He has not spoken to. We'll ask him about his future plans of study. We'll ask him about different forms of fasting that he may have practiced himself. We'll ask him about an increase based on hitting a stall for different people who have looked into that, namely calcium scores of zero. A lot of you have written about very specific elements that Iowa or has spoken to. We'll talk about vitamins and minerals supplementation and other cardiological elements with different aspects there. And we'll talk about fast mimicking. And if he's had any things to study or talk about that we're going to get into the questions you guys had about, based on the list of the 10 items to be considered outside of the low carb diet that he advises about sleep vitamin D. I know that I've always done a bunch of podcasts on on his own podcast system based on expertize from people in a lot of those fields as well. So as promised, prior to peppering Ivor with questions, quick bio, Ivor Cummins has completed a biochemical engineering degree in nineteen ninety. Since 2012, Ivor has been intensively researching the root causes of modern chronic disease. A particular focus has been on cardiovascular disease, diabetes and obesity. He shares his research, insights and insights at public speaking engagements around the world. Revealing the key nutritional and lifestyle interventions which will deliver excellent health and personal productivity. Iver's 2018 book, Eat Rich Live Long, coauthored with preventative medicine expert Geoffrey Gerber, M.D., details the conclusions of their shared research can be found on Amazon. His public lectures and interviews are available on YouTube, where he has about seventy five thousand subscribers and about six million views as recorded to date. Again, you can find out all of the information regarding either on the Fat Emperor or dot com. So I work instead of kind of climbing through which people can find on your Web site a lot of your academic and occupational background. I know that you come at it from a different viewpoint. Can you briefly describe what your career prior to diving into Eat Rich and Live Long and the studies there in.   [00:05:06] OK, Patricia, I'll try and keep it brief.   [00:05:08] Yes, I came out. 1990, I started in the medical device company as a development engineer in kidney dialysis units and those kinds of things.   [00:05:20] And basically, to put it very bluntly, I very rapidly got into complex problems solving some multifactor kind of complex problems that were causing major impacts to the processes. And I found that that's where the flare. So I focus more and more on that. And then as my career went on, I moved between companies. I. Became a team leader, senior engineer, then a very senior technical expert, and ended up as a master technologist, which is one of the highest levels in the corporation. But I also spent around fifteen years in and out of management roles. So managing teams of people, doing the people management as well as the technical. So I think problem solving was really the thing that unified it all. I would be the person who'd go in and take a very complex problem, multi-million dollar losses per week, say, and I would get to the bottom office as fast as possible using all the Problem-Solving tools. And there are many tools I won't last year. So in 2012, I got some kind of adverse blood tests. There just standard blood tests. And three of the measures were very far off, cholesterol and then a liver enzyme, GGP and Serum Feresten, an iron loading in the blood. And after I went through three doctors in succession over several weeks, including a professor of medicine, I couldn't get the answers to the two key questions that any complex problem that you're faced with or if you're brought in to lead it from outside. And the two questions are what are the implications of the bad metrics and what are the root causes generally that would drive those metrics to be bad so they can be addressed or at least investigated? And I couldn't get the answers from the three doctors. And I realized then something fairly profound, that if these are standard blood tests and I can't get those two questions broadly answered, there's something huge missing in medicine. There has to be I wasn't sure what it was, but I just knew there was no question about that. So I went to research gate and pop mad corporate law guns. And I started going through the last 60, 70 years of human trials, published science, biochemical science. And essentially within several weeks I'd worked through the three metrics I found the answers of the implications of them being bad, and they were pretty huge except for cholesterol. But the other two and I found the processes and I got myself to carbohydrate metabolism, excessive glucose, excessive sugars in my diet. So whole grain breads and pastas and orange juice, all that stuff. And I realized I was trying to eat a healthy wholegrain type diet and a low fat one generally. And it had completely backfired because I also discovered then that the whole thing about fat was fat wasn't really a problem at all. So I switched my diet. Eight and a half weeks later, I had lost thirty four pounds. I had my blood tests, came back fantastic. And basically everything was fixed. My blood pressure, which had been all was kind of hypertensive, was right down, but no extra exercise. So I knew then that I basically found the primary root cause. But then I got into fasting as well during that period. And essentially I began to research and that over the years releasing YouTube videos, you've seen a few. It just became my main career. You know, as though. Yeah.   [00:08:53] Did the book write itself then? Were you? I mean, I know the history of it personally, but it sounds like a personal journey.   [00:09:00] And this research that you were doing and then you came into this camaraderie with Dr. Jeffrey Gerber. Was it a combination of your own personal research or did you need to put it out there so that you had this kind of cohesive collection of information?   [00:09:16] Yeah, there were a few things just from a long time back I knew that I at some point want to write a book.   [00:09:22] I wasn't sure about what happened when this happened to me. In 2013, I released the cholesterol conundrum, which is extremely popular around the world. And that's so Gerber and all the other doctors found me originally and we struck up this kind of friendship. And we met in South Africa, the world's first low carb conference in South Africa in early fifteen. But I was basically during fifteen writing this book. And then later in fifteen, you know, I kind of linked up with Jeff and said, Hey, Jeff, you want to be a coauthor on this? And he was delighted because he could bring all of his clinical experience, clinical expertize. Twenty five years as a low carb doctor and kind of complete the package, if you will. But I did. And I'm sure he won't mind me saying this. I did write most of the book for sure in terms all the science and everything else. I mean, brought in a professional chef them to do all the recipes that you've probably seen. But a key thing as well was I got funding in 15 to really support me to be able to write the book and do many other things like travel and research outside of my main job. So that was from David Bobert, an Irish heart disease awareness charity. They found me through the same video, the cholesterol video, and wanted to support me to get the message out. So a lot of things came together. We got a professional editor from Karl Mann agencies in New York, which I was able to phone now. Otherwise, I would have done a book that would have been very different. So the professional editors, they know their craft in terms of structuring and simplifying. So I think it was way, way better as a result of that.   [00:11:02] Yeah. The book is beautiful. I must say in layout format, having come from a literary family and I appreciate the content. However, the actual graphics and the layout of it is incredibly friendly.   [00:11:13] I think you have a review on Amazon, but I was looking over that said the Kindle version is good, but that the in-person version is great. And I think it speaks to the vibrancy of not just the layout, but also the art, you know, the pictures, the photographs of the food, because it is really a part of what you're speaking to. Right. You're talking about diet and nutrition. And that's best relayed through both Visual Forum and I think lesson. I'm wondering with you, you kind of dropped a little nugget about fasting and you mentioned frequently and a lot of your other YouTube lectures and things like that that I've looked at. You have this conversation with your audience about becoming truly ketogenic and and following a keto diet and how it allowed you this freedom to kind of choose when you eat. And that parlays into this semi fasted mentality where you tend to skip lunch on certain days. You kind of choose your way in and out of meals. Can you speak to how that relationship came about?   [00:12:11] Right. Well, originally, actually, during that period of eight and a half weeks, I discovered a few weeks into low carb that my appetite came under an incredible degree of control.   [00:12:22] And this was completely new to me. I used to do triathlons and I would do huge amounts of swimming, cycling, you know, running. But when I came home, I'd be ravenous and I'd, of course, be eating lots of healthy whole grains. And what I thought at the time was healthy. But now I found when I was eating meat, fish and eggs and just low starch vegetables, I just found that my appetite, after having one good meal, was kind of suppressed for much, much longer. When I was going to eat lunch, I realized I'm not hungry like I used to be for this lunch. In fact, I could almost skip it and I began to skip meals in work because I was so busy. And then I just learned that there was a different way of living altogether that didn't involve breakfast, lunch and dinner in the evening.   [00:13:10] And also some snacks in the afternoon and maybe a bar or two in the mid-morning. I realized if you're eating meat, fish, eggs, high protein, high fat, you know, and vegetables and eating real human diet, your appetite just it just comes under your control. And because I was losing weight, I actually in fairness, during that eight 1/2 week period, I began to fast, more purposefully because I was enjoying losing the weight. And it was such fun, I decided to accelerate it, which happened so people and work out an awful shock, like in four or five, six weeks, I was completely transformed. And that was how I kind of got into the idea of fasting and skipping meals. And I also liked it. It suited me because I could really enjoy a meal then later on so I could get all my work done and put off the pleasure of the meal, which would be a good nutritious meal later on. And at the end of my labors kind of way, I could sit down and really enjoy a good meal. And that suited me. It suited my psychology. So that was kind of it just grew. And by the time it came to writing the book, I had done a lot more research on that because we are writing a book and got a little more technical about it. But in a sense, as Dr. Gerber says, rather than fasting, he thinks of it as meal skipping because you can so you save time.   [00:14:33] You can spend the time eating and work doing work, maybe finish earlier and just skip meals here and there and let your hormones, let your insulin, your glucose. Let let all that digestive process calm right down, you know, and it's just it's the right way to live. And I think evolutionarily as well, it's so appropriate. As you can imagine, though, I know that's not proof of any benefit, but it just makes sense and it gives you freedom. There's no downsides that I'm aware of.   [00:15:02] It's a laissez faire attitude about eating for sure that I don't think a lot of hyper and intense individuals in this latter day have towards food.   [00:15:11] You know, the addictive nature that we've kind of every country that I've seen ascribes to their diet, at least. And I'm wondering, do you. Have you experimented with this control? Has there come? You're a very curious individual. And has there been any curiosity about playing around with forms of fasting? Have you met at these conferences with other like minded health individuals who talk about extended fasts, or is it more about this meal skipping mentality?   [00:15:38] Yeah, it's probably more the latter. Patricia, I'm relatively casual, so I'm not really the type.   [00:15:44] I did a lot of blood measurements, blood glucose meter and ketones way, way back. And then I kind of dropped it, to be quite honest. Now, if I thought I had any kind of physiological issue that I had to address, I'd be a real metrics person, you know, because I'm an engineer. But I've kind of got more casual about that because I just feel if I'm doing things right, I occasionally take a blood glucose, but I'm not compelled to.   [00:16:07] And likewise, the fasting, I don't feel I have to keep a certain routine. So what I've kind of ended up at first sheer convenience is and to get a little longer fasting in, because I believe the longer, fastest way you really get your glucose and insulin down, I'm kind of doing one meal a day around three times a week or four. And the other three or four days, two meals a day. So that's roughly where I've settled for me. Now, I've talked to Jason Fong, many people who know Dr. Jason Fong, the fasting guru, and many other people about fasting. But I explain that I have a longer term. Fast is more like a medical intervention to me. So someone who has profound obesity or very severe insulin resistance that will is not dealt with in a normal, healthy low carb with some meals skipping can push the boundaries further. And I know Jason deals with a lot of those more challenging people. But for me, I haven't gone over 24 hours and I do anecdotally hear that there's not really much published science on it, obviously because of the nature. I anecdotally hear about some people, many people maybe more so female, maybe postmenopausal. That going beyond that 24 hours into longer term fast can just be challenging, you know, tiredness, sleep impacted. Don't feel so good. And I sense that it appears that men appear to be a little luckier in terms of fasting. There's less of that anecdotal feedback. But even myself, when I go to around 27, 28 hours, I really feel like eating. So I've never pushed true the envelope into apparently day two, where the hunger that has come on falls away again. And apparently there a utopia of healing in today, three and four. I haven't done that. But I do hear about his.   [00:18:00] Yeah. Curiosity hasn't led you there yet. Well, there's time. I wonder, with your emphasis on I were meant to ask you about that before I start the rapid fire questions with people that wrote in.   [00:18:12] In reading through your book, you do talk about faster blood glucose levels, measuring that. And it seems like you tie into you have mentioned actually a lot of your interviews as well as a very quick way to get into ketosis is through this kind of fasted state. And I'm hoping that you can kind of draw that out or enumerate that further for everyone listening.   [00:18:32] Yeah, well, my my approach to QI tells us we all know those hardcore Kiesel people who tend to push fat into their bodies with ultra low carb to kind of almost force Quito's.   [00:18:45] It's almost like eating the extra fat is creating this beneficial ketosis. And I just never perceived it that way. So my way to be in ketosis and I like to kind of go in and out of it. I'm not entirely convinced from the literature that staying hardcore Akito all the time suit's all genetic type suits everyone so well, I'm not sure now. You know, the jury's out in the sense, but what I like to do is eat low carb and then skip meals and the combination of a good, healthy, new, nutrient dense, low carb diet. It might not make you in ketosis deeply, but if you start skipping meals as well in combination with low carb, then you're going to be going in and out of ketosis in waves. And it's a great feeling and I find ketosis now. I never gone really hardcore, but it does a great feeling of mental acuity. Even so, I give an example and it's anecdotal, but when I'm speaking in a very big conference, maybe eight or nine hundred people in the audience, you know, your tension will build and you want to be at your best. And I always pretty much ensure that I'm around 24 hours fasted before I go on stage. Now, this would be a shock to the average American. You know, who if they didn't have their lunch, you know, they wouldn't be able to concentrate or Irish or anyone nowadays. I don't mean just Americans. But for me, like when you get into that 20 hours fasted. Your mental acuity, it may relate to the fact that Bayt hydroxybutyrate and ketone bodies are feeding our brain, but no one has proven that. But something changes and and you get sharper, edgier. There's a high performance feeling. So I think I've gone off the topic now. But that's why I like to go in and out of ketosis by meal, skipping and eating low carb. And I don't really target eating lots of fat and ultra low carb. Like I said, it's meat, fish, eggs. You know, all of those cheeses above ground, leafy vegetables, sometimes even a little rice. If the family is doing rice, I'll have to eat much smaller portions than I used to. But, you know, for old times sake. Bitter rice. Yeah. So it's kind of that's kind of my approach to it in terms of science. One of the interesting things I always bring up about fasting in ketosis is that everyone knows that exercise gives neurological benefits and does not does nothing faddish about that. Everyone accepts exercise is good for neurologically. But I have a paper that I was amazed to find once, and they'd looked at the whole question of why does exercise give this apparent neurological benefit, even short term? And I think it's brain derived neuropathic factor B DNF. So they went to all the biochemistry and actually found out that when you exercise beta hydroxybutyrate, ketone body rises. And their paper came to the conclusion that the increase in BHB was one of the primary mechanisms that was supportive of neurological function. So it's interesting to think that you can almost fasting is almost like exercise of the pill away and some other papers like that. I love ones that integrate the benefit of exercise and the benefit of the right foods or fasting behaviors into a kind of more unified thing. Those reasons, all these different things are healthy and a lot of the biochemical pathways overlap. So anyway, I just I just thought I'd throw that out there.   [00:22:21] Well, yeah. And I think that part of the problem with Western medicine in at least in the early part of the nineteen hundreds, was that, you know, and this necessary isolation view.   [00:22:30] But nothing exists in a vacuum, certainly not any system within the human body. And so to not consider other factors would be, I think, to introduce the concept that you love of black swans. You know, with them, with engineering and these kinds of flying in the face of the hypothesis moment. And so I like that you stay open to the inclusive city measure while always looking for things that disprove that. I'm wondering, with what you've said about fast before I drop into the rapid fire questions. You do, have you haven't you explained Fats? And I think it's important with people who do low carb, who don't practice, actually those who practice Vegan diets as well. But there is a very clear distinction between fats for you as well as carbohydrates. And I'm wondering if you can draw those out quickly, because I think I always preferred people to say low refined carbohydrates, because almost everything in the human diet, aside from straight fat, has carbohydrates in it. And I think what most people on a low carb centric diet or way of life are looking at refined carbohydrates. So if you could just drive for you, if you could define those terms as to how you define carbohydrates when you talk about low carbohydrates as well as healthy versus non healthy fats.   [00:23:47] Gotcha. OK. How can I do this efficiently? Well, I'd say upfront what I generally say to lay people who are not going to get into the whole falsies stuff. I say to them, look, there's the what I call Satan's triad or the devil's triad that's caused a lot of modern chronic disease, sugar, refined carbohydrates, refined grains and vegetable oils, these fake factory oils, I call them.   [00:24:11] So those three things are the primary components and most ultra processed food.   [00:24:16] So if you cut out ultra processed food and those three components greatly, you know, for most people, that'll be the vast amount of the benefit they're going to get. I'm honest about it. And then if you want to go low carb, you know, you're going to be careful with the not quite so bad carbs, like fibrous carbs or even for details in moderation. If you want to really go towards ketosis and then the non starchy vegetables are fine. So broccoli, cauliflower and all those carbs and avocados and lots of things. So I kind of say that first. So in terms of refined carbs. Absolutely, Patricia. That's the real devil in the room rather than carbs in general. And I give the example in the book of the catarrh funds, and they're around sixty five percent carb in their diet, which is actually high carb. But again, they're eating nutrient dense fish and meats and another good stuff. And the carbs are eating or like I think contains on the high fiber, low blood sugar spike carbohydrates. And they were eating this high carb diet all their lives and they never got access to refined carb sugars or vegetable oils. So any human who from birth. Right. True. Never gets access to the three. I think they can eat a whole range of diets. No problem. They're never going to be diabetic or obese. So it's when you get a population that those three components have come into and the population becomes diabetic and obese. Now you've got people who are carbohydrate intolerant, generally insulin resistance, and then they have to also maybe be very careful with carbohydrate foods that may be an ancestral person wouldn't have to worry too much about. So I kind of say everything is nuanced on the fats then. So saturated fats from real Whole Foods sources. Fine. And any fats from real Whole Foods sources are fine. The problem, again, I'll have to say it, are the added fats and oils, particularly vegetable oils in all the factory oils, basically, and seed oils. Another name for them. And then you could say that the omega three fats are good to keep, you know, good and high in your diet. Not just not to be low. So eat the fatty fish and get your omega three. Good. And no problem. And saturated fat and omega six kind of polyunsaturated fats that are in the vegetable oils that are a problem. My general part is if they're in real whole foods and the balanced diet, I would not worry about excessive omega six fats. I would only worry about them really coming from added oils of a vegetable oil nature. So that's kind of the fats, really, put simply. And I think I've kind of Kollberg covered the carbs as well. Good versus bad, roughly.   [00:27:09] Absolutely. And I'm wondering and I think your book does a good job about talking about Whole Foods and how, you know, the supplementation of fats is not to seek out fat, but rather supplement those calories with the nasty carbohydrate calories that you're removing. And so that augmentation makes a lot of sense for the reader, at least it did for me. All right. Moving on to the Rapid Fire. So we had a lot of questions asking about and because of the work that you've done as over the past two years and with the launch of the book in 2018, where do you see the most research needing to be headed or headed towards this low carb and or fasting scientific research?   [00:27:53] Right. Well, I think probably the big gap for me personally or see Ts are randomized control trials are generally designed for drug treatments. So you've got your, say, statton drug and you've got a placebo inert. And the RC teas are usually Dohm, which is one intervention, you know, and that and that makes sense in a certain way. But I would love to see an R t that adds together a multi factor approach. So a standard a kind of heart association, kind of low fat diet, but pitched against a low carb, nutrient dense kind of healthy diet of my defining. OK. Including some element of fasting that's tracked. So you can work out from the data afterwards. Some people may do more, some may do less. But you can work it out at the end of the trial. Add in vitamins and minerals. Not too many Bacau ones like magnesium, potassium, add in sun exposure and ultraviolet light exposure, which gives us way more than vitamin D and like do it, do an experiment, a human trial that admittedly the ethics committees don't like these.   [00:29:08] They like to see one intervention. Simple, but I think we're missing out on doing a multi factor intervention of all of what we know is synergistically going to boost health and do all that cluster of things together. Well-documented, undefined, you know, no hiding, no secret changes. What? Just do it against the control of the standard low fat diet on what the Orthodox authorities tell us to do and then pitch. Pitch my system up against that. I'd love to if that experiment was done. I'm not sure of what lever happened.   [00:29:44] Oh, I hope so. That sounds fun and kind of along those same lines of research. And and what you endeavor to do. We had a lot of questions regarding how you curate the research. You do. You're one human being. And so even with a team of researchers, how do you curate what you look at, what you incorporate, what you also kind of allow into the metrics of your theories and philosophy?   [00:30:08] Yeah, well, I kind of you I'm a lone wolf, to be quite honest, I have no staff.   [00:30:12] I have nothing. So what I do is I research our research, our research. And I have around probably nearly 3000 published papers on my hard drive under myriad different directories and topics. And I have a good memory for these things. So like when people ask me about a study, I'll say, oh yeah, that one was a rats. And there was a four percent threshold of adding omega six for a mammary. Tumors were increased in size, but after four percent add, there was a threshold effect. And I'll usually remember studies even though there's so many. So I have an informal system of directories, but I generally do is I take topics of my greatest interest. So for the movie we made extra time movie dot com. We were involved with a scanning forty five ads, guys in their 50s X sportsmen.   [00:31:05] We found that some amazing stuff. And we also followed a guy who reversed his score and he did all the stuff we're talking about to do that.   [00:31:13] But during the making of that movie, I went deep dove on the mechanisms of calcification, you know, medial versus into more calcification kidney disease and the mineral based calcification that occurs in that. So, again, I went much deeper into the mechanisms because I felt as the movie came out, we really wanted to thoroughly know the state of the art and the science of exactly why calcium may leach back out of Arthur almost as plaques, why it's actually gathered. And it's just an example. During that period, I did a ton of work on that. And another recent example was I finally got the chance to meet Professor Vladimir Subaltern. And I released the podcast a few weeks ago, but I met him in Crossfade headquarters in Santa Cruz last November and I did a ton of work researching on the pathways of cholesterol and LDL particles from the Luman into the Intermap, all of the diffusion coefficients and all of so Boltons science where the cholesterol comes in from the outside of the wall of the artery.   [00:32:25] So Vaslav a Sorum and the lymphatic system that drains cholesterol out of the arterial wall, I discovered that HDL good cholesterol. People know that it takes the cholesterol out of your artery wall. But what I found out was it takes it out to the outside. It doesn't take it back into the blood.   [00:32:46] So let's just say during that journey that I may be another hundred and twenty published papers on my hard drive. And I've gone through all of the made notes in the margin. And then what I do is I produce talks. So one way for me to kind of store the research, other high level, useful for real people is I'll do a talk maybe an hour, 50 minutes, and I'll do all the diagrams and slides to explain it to a lay person. But behind it, there might be a hundred published papers and maybe, I dunno, three, four or five hundred hours of research. But all those papers and references are there. When people ask about an aspect of the talk, I'll immediately just email them the paper. So it's kind of informal, but I'm very dynamic and these things, you know.   [00:33:35] Yeah, absolutely, and you talk about I mean, just to kind of unpack a little bit of what you were saying.   [00:33:41] If I could be so bold from what I garnered without having looked at all of the research, you were kind of getting into a lot of the five markers when you're talking about the build up and the X exposing in that lead to like a coronary episode. Right. And also other things that have been affiliated with it, like cancer and things like that. And those are low HDL or good waist size hypertension, blood sugar. And then you kind of we're getting into the very specifics of the plaque within what's found in a C.T. scan.   [00:34:12] Yeah. And this was found in the C.T. scan, the C.A.C. score, that's the best measure of your degree of heart disease and degree of risk.   [00:34:19] So if you get a zero score at middle age and it simply sees the calcium in your coronary arteries and the inflammatory disease of atherosclerosis driven by vegetable oils and refined grains and on an insulin resistance. Well, all of those things and more lead to pressure on your arterial wall and lead to inflammation, inflammatory forces on the body. When you develop these plaque brings in calcium at a certain stage to try and stabilize these, that could rupture. So the calcium that comes in is is a bone formation process and quite complex and not fully understood, even with all the papers I Gartner's. And this scan can simply see the calcium like an x ray. So if you have a zero score, it means there's no detectable calcium, which means you've developed very little plaque. You haven't even reached the stage that your body is reacting to. And therefore, your risk is very low. Maybe one or two percent risk in the next 10 years of a heart attack. And if you have a very high score, like my sponsor, David Bobert, nearly a thousand at the age of 52, you have an enormous risk, maybe 25, 30 percent. So the measure of the calcium in the C.A.C. score in the scan. That's the best measure of risk. But what causes that then exactly? You mentioned there the five criteria of the metabolic syndrome, which is insulin resistance syndrome, which is essentially type two diabetes.   [00:35:51] And you got your low HDL. You've got your high triglycerides. You got your high blood sugar. You've got your high waist size. And you've got your hypertension, blood pressure. And they're pretty good. Five metrics. I would add in serum feresten. I would add in Jegede T Gamma illusional transfer as they were the two I had high rise and they are good markers to for metabolic syndrome or insulin resistance syndrome. And there are lots of other good markers. But I would say if people really wanted a simple way to check themselves out, if you just got a fasting glucose and a fasting blood insulin and you put them in the home calculator, it's online h.o. m.a calculator, you get your home resists our insulin resistance index. And if that's below one point two, you're pretty good. Non diabetic and it is above one point eight or you're you're probably in trouble. So that's a really easy way to skip all the other measures. And a lot of people like that one.   [00:36:53] And your book, Eat Rich Live Long talks about the tests that you should really just garner an understanding for as you begin the journey of looking and endeavoring into the advice there.   [00:37:04] So I think that's good to know and it's good for people to have understand what those results mean and most importantly, that those are all, you know, retractable. A lot of those those results can be fixed very, very quickly with a correction in diet, which obviously is is the main ethos of eat live long. I'm curious, you have a section in the book and we've had a lot of people. Right. And talking about vitamin and mineral supplementation. And you you advise as specific vitamin A mineral protocol. I won't list them off here, but we do a lot of people. Right. And asking if you consider there to be a chief like catch a multivitamin that hits all of your core constituents. And that advice.   [00:37:47] Yes. OK. In terms of products. Well, actually, going forward, I have got a new friend, a Goodbody, who is a nutraceutical manufacturing plant on the other side of the world.   [00:37:56] So I am going to be getting more into vitamins and minerals research. So I did enough in the past for the bulk, but I'm probably going to be getting into that more in terms of multivitamins. I've never really looked at them, but I generally do as I get magnesium, potassium, that's magnesium, separate potassium chloride. We have iodine there and see kelp and does a couple more than me think, oh well, the vitamin D though I prefer to get that from my UV lamp and from the sun because that way you get nitric oxide and other folder chemicals. But the vitamin D, if you can't get that, is another important one. And that's kind of that cluster there. I mean, you could say chromium is important, too. There's quite a bit out there on that. But that cluster of around five or the key ones for me. Now, obviously, there's loads more vitamins and minerals that could be beneficial. I never got into the vitamin C thing. I think that if you're eating a very healthy diet, well-balanced, you should be OK anyway. But I notice a lot of people feel very strongly about taking higher doses of vitamin C. I've never been overly convinced that the science behind, rather than just being sufficient and not insufficient, actually getting a lot of it into you. And it's something that I've made a note I must circle back to some day. But a lot of people say to me, Ivor, why don't you talk about vitamin C? It's magic. And I've just never been convinced of that. Yes.   [00:39:27] Yeah, absolutely. Well, I've heard it. We're running out of time. And I mean, I apologize in advance to my audience. I'm going to try and quarantine you again, no pun intended.   [00:39:35] And before I let you go, I'm hoping to ask you a bunch of people ask what your future plans of study and speaking abroad. Given that, you know, people aren't traveling as much right now, have you looked forward to 2020, 2021? And do you have any kind of a sneak peak you can offer us?   [00:39:54] Yeah, well, actually, because unfortunately, sadly, the Irish heart disease awareness funding was supported true business and the impact has been enormous with Korona. And so I'm kind of moving on from that now, largely. So I'm going to have to find alternative sources of support. So I will be probably developing into having some kind of patrie on. I'm talking to people in the U.S. about developing a nutritional program for training medical people. So their connections who have come to me. So that will be a role I left to spend time on and of course, do more research around vitamins, minimal minerals, nutrition at all. I have a lot of it already.   [00:40:35] And there's a few more projects as well, that there's one where there's an insurance company in the US. Very large insurance company. And they want to get their people healthier because obviously they'll save an enormous amount in terms of medical bills. So very large amounts to savings. So I may be doing a program with them, with a couple of other doctors who again came and found me. And then there's conferences I just came out of low carb Sydney. Well, it was actually called low carb international all stars, but it was online. But there are going to be more veny torture trick on the West Coast is doing a conference, I think is the end of June. Dr. Burgs, Quito's so much this year is gonna be virtual. So I'm gonna be at that and does the series more of those. Let me see what else. Several more projects I may take on depending.   [00:41:28] But I've got to pick my winners because, you know, I've got a family, five children, and I'm going to have to pick things now that are more commercially minded than I would have had two in the past. And I've also got my pal in Extend Life dot com. New Zealand, an excellent manufacturer of vitamins and minerals. So I'll probably be working with him, helping him research the best ones for heart disease, reversal, etc., and engaging to some degree and maybe offering discounts to my followers and some of those products.   [00:42:01] So really a lot of balls in the air at the moment. And I just have to do my more engineering manager role now and actually program manage all these different potential projects. I make sure I get I do the the best use of my time.   [00:42:18] Absolutely. I think 20 twenty one is the year of the pivot and the juggle for a lot of people. So it sounds like you're no exception to that. Ivor, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us. I really do appreciate you taking time out of your really busy schedule and giving us all of your knowledge.   [00:42:34] Not at all. Thanks a lot, Patricia. We should talk again sometime.   [00:42:37]  I'll make sure of that. And for everyone listening, thank you for giving us your time. We've been speaking with Ivor Cummins. He is author, engineer and speaker. You can find out more on his Web site, the fat, poor dot com.   [00:42:53] And until we speak again next time, remember to stay safe. Well, when you do eat and always count on yourself. Slainte.  

Today I chat with Kristin Lajeunesse. Kristin is a published author and founder of the award-winning website Will Travel for Vegan Food (based on a two-year van-dwelling excursion that took her through all 50 states and an eight-month-long around-the-world trip). In January 2011, Kristin quit her 9-5 desk job in an effort to eat at every single vegan restaurant in the country. Kristin continued to travel full-time for 8 consecutive years while building her business from all over the world. Kristin has a Master of Arts in Integrated Marketing Communication from Emerson College. Follow Kristin’s travel excursions at @wtfveganfood.com (Instagram) and her dancer meets copywriter business at @kristinlaj (Instagram). This series features conversations I conducted with individuals who have dedicated their work and lives to Vegan research, businesses, art, and society. This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media.

Today I am chatting with Sallie Holder; acclaimed bestselling author of “Hitting Rock Middle: The Roadmap From Empty Success To True Fulfillment” (Advantage 2020), podcast host, and founder of The BRIMM. She is a sought after coach, speaker, trainer, and guide to her clients breaking out of their silent scream in success and into true fulfillment. As a nationally-recognized public speaker and business coach, Sallie has spent more than fifteen years helping businesses, entrepreneurs, and employees identify what’s getting in their way and then breaking down those barriers to success.   This podcast series is hosted by Patricia Kathleen and Wilde Agency Media. This series is a platform for women, female-identified, & non-binary individuals to share their professional stories and personal narrative as it relates to their story. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age, status, or industry.    TRANSCRIPTION *Please note, this is an automated transcription please excuse any typos or errors   [00:00:00] In this episode, I had the opportunity to speak with bestselling author, podcast host and founder of Brimm, Sallie Holder. Key points addressed were key aspects of Sallie's book, Hitting Rock Middle of the Road Map from empty success to True Fulfillment. And we also discussed Sallie's current endeavors to massive online training platforms she is currently leading and developing to help entrepreneurial women move their businesses to a solely virtual platform. Stay tuned for my informative talk with Sallie Holder.   [00:00:35] Hi, my name is Patricia Kathleen, and this podcast series contains interviews I conduct with women. Female identified and non binary individuals regarding their professional stories and personal narrative. This podcast is designed to hold a space for all individuals to learn from their counterparts regardless of age status for industry. We aim to contribute to the evolving global dialog surrounding underrepresented figures in all industries across the USA and abroad. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to check out our subsequent series that dove deep into specific areas such as Vegan life, fasting and roundtable topics. They can be found via our Web site. Patricia Kathleen .COM, where you can also join our newsletter. You can also subscribe to all of our series on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Pod Bean and YouTube. Thanks for listening. Now let's start the conversation. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. I'm your host, Patricia.   [00:01:35] And today I am ecstatic to be sitting down with Sallie Holder. Sallie is a best selling author, podcast, host and founder. You can find out more about her and all of her efforts on her Web site. W w w dot. Sallie Holder, dot com. Welcome, Sallie.   [00:01:52] Thank you for having me, Patricia. I'm really excited to be here.   [00:01:55] Absolutely. I'm excited to unpack everything that you're doing. It's really exciting. You know, we were talking prior to recording and you have a very unique situation is having launched your book at the beginning of the covered pandemic breakout. And so I'm actually really interested to find out about some of the conversation that exists between that relationship as well as unpacking your book for everyone listening. I will give you a brief bio on Sallie. But prior to doing that, in case you're new to the podcast, a roadmap for the way that we will be following our trajectory and inquiry. Within that, we'll first look at unpacking Sallie's academic background and early professional life, bringing her up to writing the book, Hitting Rock Metal, The Roadmap from Empty Success to True Fulfillment. And then we'll turn straight to unpacking that book and I'll get into the logistics of who, what, when, where, why, how, funding all of those kind of more back end logistical author based things. And then I'll also turn towards the philosophy and the impetus of the inspiration behind it. Writing it, what community she intends for it to serve and all of those things. And then we'll look at unpacking her podcast and again, some of the logistical issues or questions around that. And then also the ethos, the I guess the content matter. She's getting into all of those things. Then we'll turn towards unpacking what's called the brim. And this is a coaching experience that Sallie offers as a technique. And I'll kind of climb through all of those things again, industries, client profiles, people that she's helping out. And what's new on the horizon with all of that? Maybe any more books in that arena. And then we'll turn our efforts towards asking her about goals and plans and then we'll wrap everything up with advice that Sallie may have for those of you who are looking to get involved with her or contact her about her work or perhaps emulate some of the success that she has had over the past year. A quick bio, as promised on Sallie. Before I stop peppering her with questions, Sallie Holder is an acclaimed bestselling author of Hitting Rock Middle the Road Map From Empty Success to True Fulfillment that came out in January of Twenty Twenty, I believe. She's a podcast host and founder of The Brim. She is a sought after coach, speaker, trainer and guide to her clients, breaking out of their silence screen in success and into true fulfillment. As a nationally recognized speaker and business coach, Sallie has spent more than 15 years helping businesses, entrepreneurs and employees identify what's getting in their way and then breaking down those barriers to success. Sallie earned a degree in human and organizational development from Vanderbilt University and followed that by earning her law degree while spending more than 10 years practicing labor and employment law, advising small companies as well as giants like FedEx and Michelin. She grew passionate about the growth of businesses moving beyond her law practice. She became an entrepreneur, starting her own business and coaching here. She discovered her true passion, helping others make the bold choice that lead to lasting success and happiness. So, again, you can find out more on her website. W w w dot. Sallie Holder dot com. That is s a l l i e h o l d e r dot com. So, Sallie, before we kind of launch into your book, which I am excited to kind of ask you about the core of, and seven I had the privilege of looking at over the past week, I'm hoping that you can dress an academic and professional background, which I know is kind of leading straight into your book and its narrative, but so that everyone can garner an understanding of where you were at prior to writing and launching your book, Hitting Rock Middle.   [00:05:41] Yeah, sure.   [00:05:42] So I feel like I came into this world following society's mold.   [00:05:53] Of success that, you know, while my father was an entrepreneur, my family had a very rigid view of what success looks like, what it felt like, what it showed up as to the outside world. And I learned quickly on that success meant that you achieved external accomplishments, that it came from a lot of awards and accolades, and that success really only meant one thing and that it was all that external kind of shiny penny stuff. I never really grasp that success meant that you got to feel words and feelings like happiness and joy and contentment. And so I believed for a very long time. More than 30 years. That you needed to work hard enough. Be very focused on those external accomplishments. And when you did, eventually you would be rewarded with the feelings of happiness and contentment. But after the 30 years of work and sacrifice of time and energy and getting many of the awards that I thought would lead me to that place of happiness and contentment, you know, after getting all of those, I didn't feel any of the things that I wanted to feel. I didn't feel fulfillment. I didn't feel joyful or happy. And I felt robbed. I felt frustrated and mad and angry and really dissatisfied. And I kept all of that to myself. You know, I kept quiet about all of those feelings because I felt like there must be something wrong with me because I had checked all of the boxes along the way that everyone else told me to check. And yet I didn't get all of the feelings back that I assumed came with checking the boxes. So, you know, eventually, through my own internal hard work of turning inside instead of spending all of my time focused externally and kind of we can talk about this part later. But, you know, eventually turning internally, I did the even harder work to figure out who I was and what I defined as success and who I wanted to eventually become in this life and made a big career change from, you know, focusing on things that I disliked in the corporate world and began my entrepreneurial journey. And I always had said to myself, Patricia, that if I figured it out, if I figured out how to make this sincere, switched and change that, I would write the book on it, that I would help other people be able to do the same. Because when I was out there struggling and floundering, I looked for the external solution. I looked for a book or someone just to say, I've been there, too, I get it. And I couldn't find that. And so this was my attempt to be authentic and raw and open to say if you have landed in this place, I get you, I hear you. And, you know, there's nothing wrong with you. All you need to do now is just a little bit of different work than you were ever told you needed to do to get to that place of happiness and fulfillment.   [00:09:21] I'm curious, and this is an area that the book doesn't really pass out. You do a really great and very candid.   [00:09:27] I think you have a lot of bravery and your honesty in the book describing, you know, what what could be seen as a nonproblem and really unpacking the problem within that. You know, the book begins with this kind of description of this incredible young success. It like twenty seven years old that you had and then just this this feeling of a disconnect at any rate. It felt to me I felt as a reader, like there was an emptiness behind everything that obtaining everything you had achieved before the age of 30, including the accolades and being recognized by society for that, and then the disconnect between what true happiness actually was and why you hadn't reached it with your bench markers that you had set forth at a younger age. And I thought a lot about that after reading that particular, because it's something I'm not even certain we're instilling in our own next generation. You know, for those of us that are lucky to have figured out what, you know, our zone of genius or whatever phrase you want to come up with, it is. I'm not certain that we have learned it well enough to do what this book is, as you've put forth, meant to do, which is to kind of help others go about doing the same thing, you know, and then instilling it in the next generation. I'm curious, how long did it take you? Because the book does this beautiful job of mapping things out, and I want to unpack that. But how long did it take you personally to kind of get to a place where the books written? In hindsight, you've kind of come to this revelation, you've walked into your zone of genius. How long would you say that journey took you from the bathroom floor that night until writing?   [00:11:00] Oh, gosh. I would say probably 10 years. Yeah. You know, I think that from.   [00:11:10] I had that bathroom floor moments that you're talking about after receiving the young professional of Year of the Year award. And I came home and just collapsed in tears because I felt like nothing was going to be different. And yet I wanted so desperately for things to be different and.   [00:11:30] My greatest fear was that I didn't have the power to make things different for myself. And I didn't realize all along that I did. I possessed that power all along. But I stayed exactly where it was for eight more years. I stayed practice law. I shifted things slightly. Right. You know, I kind of describe this concept in the book of staying in the loop that, you know, I would investigate other careers, other areas and believe that they would be the solution, that it was just the people I worked with or the job or the city I lived in.   [00:12:05] And if the problem wasn't that I was following someone else's model of success.   [00:12:12] And so I stayed there eight more years doing those slightly different things, running a law firm. I ran several companies after that as their chief operating officer, real estate company, retail company. But I still felt all of those same things because they were still always chasing someone else's model. So it took me 10 years after going through several other iterations to realize, OK, if it's not just practicing law and it's not just, you know, the people I work with in it, I take me wherever I go. And so if it's if I'm finding the same feelings every single time over and over. It must be something within me that needs to be resolved.   [00:12:54] And I finally began actually working with my own business coach, and she really helped me unlock that and make the realization that I need to do to do the work myself.   [00:13:07] And so over the next two years, I saw more growth and more rapid change in my life and career than I had from the previous 10. Yeah, absolutely.   [00:13:18] I'm curious to your book does a good job at posturing questions and even on your Web site, you know, as as a viewer, when you land and things like that, you've got a survey and things of that nature that I know that ties into probably work with the brim.   [00:13:32] But I'm wondering how much of it it it seems like you have a very therapy approached basis to it in that the solution is within. We just need to kind of unlock these, you know, and I'm referring obviously to to normal social therapy that a lot of people receive. But you have a lot of these questions about like looking in and answering it for oneself, you know, and it's it's also checking these factors that I think you talk about in the book as well, these kind of smile and nodding moments that people do and they really don't feel that way inside and kind of coming to terms with that, identifying it and then identifying true questions. Once you've detached it from stigma that a lot of us have about what we ought to be doing or what one was planned to do because of means from like a desperate moment in childhood. And so I wonder if you can speak to how much of that is is accurate. What I just said in clients that you've already worked with and things like that, is it? Very much so. Bringing things into consciousness to help one let go. Are there other steps that they need help with along the way?   [00:14:39] I love the way that you put that it. It is a bit of a therapeutic approach. And what I've come to learn and really resisted for so long in my kind of 10 year journey prior was the fact that I thought that there was some kind of tactical solution and that it could only come from some sort of tactical solution. And if I just worked hard enough that the solution would appear.   [00:15:03] And and yet the solution wasn't coming. And yet I still stayed in that loop. Right. The definition of insanity. And what I've come to realize in working with female entrepreneurs is that it is absolutely a combination of both. Right. It is a combination of tactical solutions that we are generally, as you know, and I primarily work with women, just I'm because I'm fascinated with female entrepreneurs and really passionate about helping them increase their revenue and income.   [00:15:35] And what I've come to realize is we aren't necessarily open to the tactical changes that we should or may need to implement until we have resolved many of the mindset issues. The limiting beliefs.   [00:15:49] And, you know, kind of exactly how you put it. The therapy puter approach and the therapeutic work is done first. You know, I have a mindset course that I offer. And, you know, I generally recommend that people start there because and many entrepreneurs say, well, it's not my mindset.   [00:16:08] You know, it's my, you know, lack of sales or my inability to have a lead funnel or lead generation. And I'm like, don't worry, I'm going to get there or I'm going to talk to you about all of those things and help you implement those. But the reason why you haven't created those first. The reason why they don't exist now is because right of these blocks, these mental blocks that you have, these assumptions you've made about yourself, your self-worth, the worth of your business. And it's driving many of the decisions that you're currently making in your business. So when we when we can resolve those, then we can implement some really great tactical tools that are, I find, small tweaks that can create massive success for you. But it all does begin with what's between your ears?   [00:16:58] Yeah, absolutely. And to that end, I'm wondering, who is the who is the ideal candidate for your book when you were writing it?   [00:17:07] Did you have your audience in mind or you were you just writing your truth?   [00:17:12] My actually, I always had my audience in mind because I was always thinking about the person that I was, that if there was another twenty seven year old woman out there who was doing it and trying to force that square peg in a round hole, staying in a career that she disliked. So to me, it is that younger audience, not where I am currently, which is OK. I have other things that serve them. But to me, ideally, it is the younger audience, you know, the, you know, twenty seven to thirty five, twenty five to thirty five where they're questioning and sitting there saying, you know, I like what I do but I don't love it, I'm not passionate about it.   [00:17:51] I don't know where I'm going from here. Do I stay here or does it really invest and double down in the career that I've chosen?   [00:17:59] And, you know, I want them to be able to read this and know whether it's right to stay where they are or whether creating the wholesale change may be right for them.   [00:18:12] Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think anybody can benefit from that, even if the answer is, you know, a lovely like, I'm great. I'm right where I should be. A check in is is really necessary and wonderful.   [00:18:24] And what has been the greatest success with your book that you hadn't anticipated? What has been like some of the happier moments that took you off guard?   [00:18:35] Oh, what a great question.   [00:18:37] You know, I did have the pleasure of getting to do a book tour, right. That ended the literally the week before it hit. And, you know, I think an unexpected just do away with seeing women probably who are of an older generation who were in their 60s and 70s coming up and saying, I read this, or they enjoyed the talk that I gave relative to the book.   [00:19:08] And coming up in tears saying, I don't want to give up. Right. I don't want to make the change. I still want to do the work to create the life I always wanted. And to me, just to be able to inspire one person to take the risk on themselves and to go and do that is beyond what I could have ever hoped for.   [00:19:33] You know, I'm thinking in particular, one woman that just like, held my hand and she was just in tears saying, you know, I've been wanting to do this for myself for so long. Thank you for giving me the courage to do it. And I mean your smart eyes right now.   [00:19:49] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And as well, it should be moving. Anybody like that, I think is wonderful. I'm wondering, you mentioned Kov It and the book I have written down January 20, 20, I myself didn't find that fact.   [00:20:05] But if it if indeed launched, then you kind of, you know, gracefully partnered Cauvin into the existence of kind of the global pandemic that it is right now. And I'm with your book launch. And I'm curious, as I started thinking about it, I don't come at anything always pessimistic. And I was wondering if it was I'm sure that there was some fallout and some issues in canceled tour dates and things of that nature. But has there been like a shift? Did it cause you to pivot and look at your book differently? Has there been a dialog that wouldn't have existed without that extreme and rare circumstance as launching the book right then?   [00:20:46] Patricia, I think you were the first person I have talked to about this in this manner, so I love the question. Yes, yes and yes and yes, all of the above. Like I said, I was fortunate to get to go to twenty five cities.   [00:21:01] I did a full book tour. The difference that I didn't expect was I thought that I would still be talking about the book at length from, you know, January throughout the entire year when things hit in March.   [00:21:19] What became apparent was that I needed to help my clients and even potential clients and just any female entrepreneur in an entirely different way. And very fast. And so I wanted to be able to offer help. And that wasn't the time for them to take that wholesale risk and change to, you know. And some began the thought process. I will say I had some people reach out to me and say, you know, now is the time where I'm, you know, deeply thinking about whether or not I might want to make a change. And that's great. But but the immediacy that Cove had created of meeting to create income and needing to have, you know, an ability to take businesses online really trumped the other message of, hey, go out and feel the freedom of creating whatever career it is that you want to have. So I did switch gears much faster than I anticipated. It's been interesting. You know, I had a bit of mourning over that. I didn't have a lot of time to let it sink in. And it really came after the fact. So I pivoted so quickly to offer a free five day workshop.   [00:22:34] I did it. Online, just on Facebook. I did five full days of training. Two female entrepreneurs. How to. And taught them how to take their businesses online to immediately create revenue. And so, you know, getting that content written and up and running and the whole thing going for a little over 300 people took a lot of work. And so. And then from that came obviously different as things always do, that Ben takes you in a totally different path. And so now I'm going to offer that again because people said it was so great. And so, you know, I I'm sad a little bit that I haven't gotten to continue to focus on the book. But I am a big believer that, you know, whatever path that we are given is the one that we were meant to be on. And so, interestingly enough, I'm just walking this to my pack and with curiosity and with interest, will you return to the honeymoon phase or try to with them with with your book?   [00:23:41] Once Kove It is over and social distancing is more of a distant past. Would you think you'll ever return and try to do some of the activities you were planning on doing or just move forward?   [00:23:53] I don't think I will. I've thought about this very recently because we are actually in the process of a Web site revamp to focus less on the book. And even before getting on this. That's exactly what I was doing, is changing the message again and revamping. But, you know, and I think that's one of the things that you've got to be willing to do as a female entrepreneur. You know, I love the quote, be clear on your intentions, but fluid on how.   [00:24:21] And I thought I knew how how it was going to go, how I was going to execute my ultimate intention, which always has been to help change the lives of female entrepreneurs and help them increase their revenue and make the biggest impact in the world that they possibly can. And how I thought I was going to do that was through the book.   [00:24:42] Interestingly enough, that was not my life plan. Now, in May, it may still but again, some of the other ways that the book was going to make an impact was through conferences and book speaking engagements and places like that, all of which have since been canceled. And so many of in-person events, you know, maybe those will come back and maybe they will come back and the book will be relevant then. But but I'm different now. And that's, I think what you have to always be open to is open to the growth that you can get to experience along the way. If you don't see it, as you know, with a victim or negative mindset of, oh, no, this happened to me rather than this is happening for me. And so that I may reach that ultimate destination. I didn't expect it, but somehow it will be a gift. And we all expect to be able to see that in the moment. And you don't get to write. You just have to have faith and then trust. And then you get to see it as an as a reflection.   [00:25:48] Yeah.   [00:25:49] Well, so as your message is growing with the new Web site development and things of that nature, does that will it also affect areas that you've done with your podcasts that you've launched? Is that affect some of the work that you're doing there? Are you going to continue with it? And if so, can we get into discussing some of that?   [00:26:08] I would love to. Gosh, you are getting me to open up about things that I have not talked about at all. And excellent. Yes, I am actually in the process of completely revamping the podcast. It the title was hitting Rock Middle and when Cobh it hit and I saw the need to, like I said, pivot to offer a different resource, something that would live where people could provide interaction. Then I did the live versus having just simply the audio format. And so now I want the podcast to be both both visual and so that there is a way to watch it. And then I and then have the audio format as well. And then my idea is to Wharfe reformat it to be something like that. I can test out the name on you. The keester earning more. And so that it is all centered around, you know, giving women more of the keys to their own success. And, you know, helping them with what I find are really typically the three most predominant areas that are problematic for female entrepreneurs there. They'll trouble with their time. The trouble with their earnings, which goes into many more different facets, you know, through pricing and sales. And then the last is through their mindset, which is everything from leadership to boundary setting.   [00:27:44] Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and it does. Exactly. I was going to say I love the title as long as it does what it says and it does. You know, I'm all about utility, especially when someone is going to talk about keys and functionality. You know, especially I mean, I have a very poetic waxing and waning heart, don't get me wrong. But when it gets into, you know, career talk or business or anything like that, I. Mike, let's not use metaphors. Let's be straight. You know, let's talk about what we're really talking about. So I like it a lot. I'd like the title and I think it'll be fun. To that end, do you think the format will be interview? Will you make it a hodgepodge? Will it be interview? Will be some of you. Are you shooting for a specific type of format in the beginning or have you even thought it through?   [00:28:23] I have I. I want to do one interview a month and then I'm going to do the rest.   [00:28:30] The other three will be me talking about both things that, you know, are tools and assets that people can, as you said, implement right away and are very utilitarian.   [00:28:46] And then I would love to be able to use one of the episodes as a way of implementation of the tools that hopefully have been shared by the guest. So by the prior guest so that we could talk about what they said and and give you some some ways to implement their tips, which we all know. There is another step to the process when you're interviewing someone. They're gonna give you a lot of awareness, which is fantastic. But then beyond awareness comes implementation. So I want to be able to follow through with that. And so that's the idea is that I would have two new concepts a month and then an interview and the implementation of the interview.   [00:29:28] This is a great format. Will you ever take kinds of questions and answers from your audience as you grow? Like it will ever be like a Q&A where people can kind of write in about things that they're questioning?   [00:29:39] Love that idea. Yes. That is such a fantastic idea.   [00:29:43] Yeah. Implementation and action items that you're talking about. I think it's so imperative with everything, you know, the social turmoil our nation is under right now, not just the morning, but like the actionable like what can we do moving forward changes. You know, you're coming from the body of water of change. And so I think that it's some the action items that you just mentioned, implementation and everything, and then coming at it from answering Q&A later on. That sounds fantastic. It's so great. I think that that's. It seems like a really beautiful marriage somehow, philosophically, between what your book, you know, strove to do as well, which was help people implement it into their lives. So I like the idea that you're kind of carrying that ethos over. So I want to unpack the brim. I'm not sure if that I'm sure it will. I believe it's what you were mentioning when you said Kovik hit. You need to help your clients. You went on this Facebook. I'm guessing it's from the same kind of coaching experience that you're doing towards. Can you draw a little bit out about maybe an average profile of your clients? You like to work with female entrepreneurs, but maybe a little bit deeper within that within that area. And also, I'm curious about like what, the top three to four main issues some of your clients always have.   [00:31:00] So the brand really is intended to serve female entrepreneurs. Traditionally, I find that they fall. My age range, 40 to 50.   [00:31:10] Obviously, everyone is welcome on either end of the periphery. We have some, you know, one that I can think of. That's twenty three and one that is 58. But typically, it's somewhere around the 40 to 50 age range where I find that many of them also grew up like I did with this very external focus and with this thought process that, you know, I'm smart.   [00:31:36] I've got the degrees generally. They may have succeeded in a previous career and now they're trying to apply a lot of that to their entrepreneurial experience. And it's not really working and they aren't sure why. Much of the time they have between zero and 10 employees. Maybe their revenue is. I've several companies that I work with that have up to 10 million dollars in revenue. But what is consistent about them is they're all missing the leadership support. So they still remain the primary decision maker. They still are. You have very little they have support staff, but they have very little people to delegate any type of decision making or other leadership responsibilities, too. So they still bear much of that burden. And so they're looking consistently to someone like myself to turn up to because they don't want to complain down. They want to be able to turn up to someone else and they don't have anywhere else to turn. And so I can serve within the broom as that person, guide them through the next stages, which really are all about helping them with those three main problems that I find. They are always almost undercharging. Very consistent issue. Know female entrepreneurs tend to earn fifty six cents on every male dollar in the entrepreneurial world, whereas in the corporate world we earn 76 cents on every male dollar. And I constantly put it back to my female entrepreneurs to say, and who set the price? Who did that? We did. We're doing it ourselves. It's fantastic to know that, because then we get to change it and then we have the power to do so. So, you know, we were well aware because of the loud think, gosh, voices of women everywhere saying, hey, we deserve to be paid. You know, in the corporate world, what we know is equal pay. But when we are given the choice, too often we are diminishing our own talent. And so that is a big focus of the brim is helping with pricing structures and then also with becoming familiar with and passionate about sales, which is not an icky word, but something that women need to lean into and know that the the fantastic sales process is being able to serve the people who need what you have in a way that's thoughtful and creates a Win-Win relationship.   [00:34:14] And then the other is certainly about time management.   [00:34:22] And so, you know, we break that down over several weeks of work on productivity tools, time management tools and efforts that I have found that have changed my business dramatically. And so I teach those. But I also deal a lot with the mindset issues that that are incorporated in the time management problem of not valuing ourselves. And so we do dove into the third issue, which is mindset, which is around self care. And the idea that when you care for yourself first, your business will actually flourish instead of operating and making decisions constantly from a place of fear, believing that, you know, you can run yourself into the ground and do a little bit more and that will help you earn more.   [00:35:16] That is, in fact, wrong. And so we break down those three areas of main focus into smaller modules and deal with those.   [00:35:25] Yeah, and it's so true. And I feel like it's been told to me since I was in my twenties by Oprah and I just the implementation never. And. I remember the day it sunk in, you know, about self care actually coming out to be in fruition, to not just your bottom line, but your bottom line of happiness. It's amazing what self care does. And it's amazing how even as I think I was raised really liberally and incredibly privileged and I still wasn't raised with those values, women were taught to sacrifice. That's what you got to do. You better be multitasking. You better be making everyone happy ahead of yourself. And it was just so weird to realize that so many years into my career and thinking, oh, if I had done this. Earlier on, at very least, my happiness level would have been through the roof. So I have to ask you, I love to ask authors this having come from a family of writers and playwrights and things like that, it's one of my most favorite things because it's very agitating. But I'm wondering if it's like asking about someone's next meal as they've just completed supper. But I'm wondering if you've thought about another book on the horizon. A lot of times when you're going through the process, it's actually, you know, it can spark things in people or it's like, I will never do that again. You know, there's there's two schools of thought. But I'm wondering if you've thought about writing another book as you're kind of doing this beautiful metamorphosis and pivoting, you know, listening to the Times and the reality around you. Has it sparked up like the thoughts of maybe writing another book or. No?   [00:36:58] It has, and I think that that is so interesting because I always equate it to having children. I have a 10 and almost 13 year old, and I remember when my son was born first. And I said to myself, I will never do that again. That was really tough. And I'm glad that I have the child. And he is absolutely wonderful. But oh, my gosh, I can't imagine putting myself through that. And then you got enough distance from it and you say, well, you know, it wasn't that bad.   [00:37:26] It wasn't that hard to. I could do it again. And I think that now that I actually finished writing the book almost a year ago, I'm having a little bit of that distance to think. I have more to say. I have more I want to talk about. And so I definitely think that there will be another book. And I just began probably thinking about that within the last two weeks as this next probably third pivot since I've been in. And it is coming about. And that's what really stirred that thought. Process is good.   [00:38:06] That's exciting. Well, that's good for me. And I get to read another one for you. Welcome to your triumph and tribulation. Along with that, in addition to that, I'm glad I got that out of you.   [00:38:19] It's hard to get people even to admit that there's a very there's a secrecy when somebody's going to write something with so many authors. And I got you working on something. No, no, not really. Not really.   [00:38:28] You know, there's this. Don't judge me. Don't ask me about it next week. I ought to be accountable. I love it. But midway through even the first book, I was like, not many people know about this. We're just going to talk this away. We're just going to pretend like I only told about ten or twelve people.   [00:38:43] It's fine. Yeah, exactly. It happens.   [00:38:47] I'm wondering. So that's a plan. It's a goal for the future. And I'm wondering if you can kind of enumerate on other, like, goals for the next one year. This has been a conversation that everyone, you know, from a 12 year old two hundred and twelve year old has had with themselves. It's changed significantly for all of us in this world. And I'm wondering if your goals have changed drastically. Obviously, you've had this pivot that's come up, but do you have goals that you can kind of expand on for the next one to two years?   [00:39:20] Sure. I had huge goals around traveling and speaking, and so that was, you know, suddenly became a big X in the goal sheet and the income sheet as well.   [00:39:34] And so, you know, sometimes forced pivots are a really great thing. And, you know, it, again, forces us to dig deeper and do the harder work. Right. Speaking would have been easier for me because it's something I've done for a long time. And now the harder work is for me to figure out that next deeper layer of myself of where I can continue to push myself and to grow. And so I hope over the course of the next year that, you know, my goal has been, you know, my bigger life goal is to obviously impact as many female entrepreneurs as I possibly can and help them reach at least the million dollar mark of revenue or more since only two percent of female entrepreneurs ever get to that place. And I think that there should be so many more out there.   [00:40:26] And. But within the next year, I hope that. That seat. Now, I'm hesitant to put that finite goal out there. What I've been thinking about is that I hope I can at least help 10, right, 10 female entrepreneurs reach that million dollar mark. I know that we've seen in the last two months gotten two more there.   [00:40:56] So that feels really magical and amazing to know that they reached that threshold for the first time in their careers ever and had been in business prior to this for, you know, 10 years, 12 years and just never gotten there.   [00:41:12] And that's where we say sometimes it's it's a tiny tweak that can unlock that next level.   [00:41:18] So, yeah, I think that I'm going to focus very heavily on those three areas.   [00:41:24] That, to me, seemed the most evident in need of coaching courses, et cetera, of just the mindset, time and time and earnings sections. So those are going to be my three areas of a deep focus is really digging into those. I already have a course on mindset. I focus tremendously on earnings in the brim of helping women scale their businesses, develop new revenue streams and increase their pricing, develop sales funnels, et cetera, in the brim. And but I think it is time to introduce something that will be a like a six week course is what I'm kind of imagining on time that will incorporate slyly some mindset issues and things like that. But we'll rope you in telling you we're going to make you more productive.   [00:42:30] All right. My. Absolutely. That's awesome. Well, we've come to the part of podcasts. My favorite.   [00:42:37] Everyone who's been listening or following me over the past couple of years knows this. But I'm curious if you were at a safe social distance tomorrow in some outside outdoor space and someone walked up to you. It was a woman or a female identified or non biner individuals, anyone other than a man ad for purposes of this podcast. And they said, listen, I'm Sallie. I'm I'm so glad I ran into you. I went to law school. I had this amazing firm. I did great. I started questioning my, you know, my placement there about eight years prior to this. And I decided I know it was not the right path for me. I'm going to launch out on my own to try and figure some things out, find my path. What are the top three pieces of advice you would give that individual knowing what you know now about your own life?   [00:43:29] The first would definitely be dream big.   [00:43:34] And I know that that has been a phrase that we have, you know, probably overused. But what I mean by that very technically is start with the Indian mind. Begin with your end of life, end of career, everything. And look at two things. Both your income goals and your lifestyle goals do not leave your lifestyle behind. And that's how very often. If I had defined those things and said who I wanted to become. At the end of this wild and crazy life. Thank you, Mary Oliver, for that quote. And I love it. Is. Then I never would have practiced law. I would have skipped that entire part of my journey because I wanted to become a woman who was a million dollar earner. A woman who traveled internationally made an impact on other women in business and, you know, changed the world. That was not going to happen within the type of law practice that I chose. So I would have known, oh, OK. Wait a minute. My lifestyle goals do not match up with the direction that I'm heading. And so I would tell her, don't get back in the same loop by just getting started. You know, very often I hear people all the time say to entrepreneurs, just begin. And I'm like, OK. That's like telling someone to get in a car and just start driving or you're gonna go left or right. Where are you headed? If you know the end destination is California versus Europe. Sure. Just start driving and enjoy the the winding route.   [00:45:07] But you always have a direction, and that is really different than just begin. Right. And so so, again, that's about creating that final destination. I've kind of wrapped up a couple of a couple of other things. And there is always set both income and lifestyle goals, not just one. And then. I would say the third is, gosh, I think one of the biggest mistakes that I have made, even as an entrepreneur along the way, is still continuously believing that someone else has a magic pill or a, you know, expertize out there that can fix me and they can't. Right. Sometimes you've got to just take the bumps and the bruises along the way and learn as you go. And you don't need to pay someone else, you know, thousands of dollars to fix you.   [00:46:09] Now, you know, is it more joyful to get to experience the journey with other female entrepreneurs and be part of a community that's challenging and growing themselves to.   [00:46:20] Absolutely. But just know when you go into that that and go into a coaching relationship or any of those that.   [00:46:30] You have all the power, you have everything within you that you need to be the best version of yourself already. And so really what you're looking for from the coach or the other person that you're hiring is just to bring that out even more, just to highlight it, to complement it.   [00:46:46] And so very often I see entrepreneurs, you know, looking for the PR firm go marketing.   [00:46:54] If I only had this or that, it would all be better. And that's just not the case. And believe me, I've wasted plenty of money doing those things, too. And I like that.   [00:47:06] And it's cool. I haven't heard that from anyone before. And I think it's obviously indicative of the work that you've done in your book and the work that you'll continue doing.   [00:47:16] All right. So to sum up, I've got dream big and what you end up with as a side note. Start with the end in mind, which I love. Number two always said income and lifestyle goals, not just one. Number three, nobody outside of you can fix you or your career. It's merely those people's tools that release your own power and prowess.   [00:47:38] Oh, I love that.   [00:47:40] That's awesome. That's you. Yeah. That's you. Like you. Back to you. I like that a lot, too. Sallie, that's so awesome.   [00:47:46] I know we're out of time, but I just wanted to say thank you so much today. I know that you've got a bunch of balls in the air and nobody is busier than someone revamping their life, which everybody is doing. And I really do appreciate you taking the time to speak with me and have our audience hear your wisdom.   [00:48:00] Well, thank you for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure.   [00:48:03] Absolutely. For everyone listening. We have been speaking with Sallie Holder. She's a bestselling author, podcast, host and founder. You can find out more about all the stuff that we've been talking about on her website. W w w dot. Sallie Holder dot com. I myself eagerly await her next book and can't wait for all of the future wisdom that comes from that and for everyone else listening. Thank you for spending your time with us today. I do appreciate you.   [00:48:30] And until we speak again next time. Remember to stay in love with the world and always bet on yourself. Slainte.    

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