Podcast appearances and mentions of Kenneth Brown

Today we continue 10 More Great Adventure Stories, and we are pulling back from adventure realism to a fanciful pulp adventure from 1949, "Seeds of Greed," from the Escape series. The story follows Kenneth Brown, a man who partners with a ruthless killer/fortune hunter to locate a sunken treasure. Visit our website: https://goodolddaysofradio.com/ Subscribe to our Facebook Group for news, discussions, and the latest podcast: https://www.facebook.com/groups/881779245938297 Our theme music is "Why Am I So Romantic?" from Animal Crackers: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KHJKAKS/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_MK8MVCY4DVBAM8ZK39WD

This Advent, our series "Hope is Real" reminds us that hope is more than a feeling—it's a practice, a choice, and a promise. Today, we reflect on Mary's song of hope and how it inspires us to sing our own, even in difficult times. Let's lean into the hope that transforms our lives and our world. Welcome to Storied Church. Take the Hope Scale: Hope can be measured. Take the Hope Scale to see your level of hope here: https://forms.gle/9paEb3Hm9yiXCj6f9 Find out more about Storied Church @ STORIEDCHURCH.org TO GIVE storiedchurch.org/give JOIN OUR LISTSERVE: storiedchurch.org/connect instagram.com/storiedchurch facebook.com/storiedchurch YouTube: @storiedchurch921

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Dr. Kenneth Brown believes that delivering positive patient outcomes and exceptional service is the cornerstone of his gastroenterology practice in Plano, TX. Having been inspired by his clinical research performed on IBS drugs, the Kenneth Brown, MD practice has a special focus on finding solutions to IBS-related symptoms – especially where pharmaceutical drugs have underperformed. He formed KBS Research in 2012 with the goal of creating innovative natural products for digestive issues. Our first product, Atrantíl, launched in 2015 and has been clinically proven to relieve frustrating IBS symptoms like bloating and abdominal discomfort. In this episode, I talk to you Dr. Kenneth Brown board-certified gastroenterologist about IBS. What irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) and small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is. How it can affect your weight. Why standard protocols often don't work. What chronic digestive issues can do to your brain and hormones. What diet and supplement Dr. Brown recommends most! Buy Antrantil https://www.lovemytummy.com/martel/ Use coupon code "Martel" and receive %10 off! Listen to the full episode here: https://karenmartel.com/how-to-eradicate-your-ibs-and-sibo-with-dr-kenneth-brown-2/ Sponsors: Thyroid Fixxer by Amie Hornaman get 10% off your order with coupon km10 here. Interested in joining our NEW Peptide Weight Loss Program? Join today and get the details here. Join our Women's Group Coaching Program OnTrack TODAY! Karen Martel, Certified Hormone Specialist & Transformational Nutrition Coach and weight loss expert. Visit https://karenmartel.com/ Karen's Facebook Karen's Instagram

Dr. Kenneth Brown is a private gastroenterologist with a clinical research division at Atrantil. Dr. Brown shares his journey from traditional medicine to a more holistic approach, blending natural therapeutics with traditional methods to treat gastrointestinal issues. He also discusses the advantages of being a generalist, how to care for your microbiome, and the need for more education about the link between gut health, brain health, and overall wellbeing.  Guest links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethbrownmd/ | https://atrantil.com/ Charity supported: ASPCA Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com.  PRODUCTION CREDITS Host: Lindsey Dinneen Editor: Tim Oliphant Producer: Velentium   EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Episode 021 - Kenneth Brown Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey with Velentium and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world. Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them. Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives. Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives. Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives. Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference. Hello, and welcome to The Leading Difference Podcast. I'm your host, Lindsey, and I am excited to introduce you to my guest today, Dr. Kenneth Brown. Dr. Brown is a private gastroenterologist with a clinical research division. In his practice, Dr. Brown uses a mix of traditional medicine and natural therapeutics to treat patients suffering from gastrointestinal issues. He hosts the Gut Check Project podcast where he and his team address topics surrounding gut health, healthcare economy, patient safety, nutrition, and more. Thank you so much Dr. Brown for joining me today. I am so excited that you're here and welcome. Dr. Kenneth Brown: Thank you so much, Lindsey. I'm super excited getting to be a guest on The Leading Difference podcast. Awesome. I typically am always asked to do medical stuff, so this is a little bit out of my scope, but very exciting nonetheless. Lindsey Dinneen: Great. No I'm very excited to have you and talk with you, and I would love if you would start by just telling us a little bit about yourself and your background and how you got to where you are today. Dr. Kenneth Brown: Yeah, absolutely. So I'll take you way back. I was in medicals, I basically raised in Omaha, Nebraska. I was in medical school scraping ice off my car and realized one day, "I don't have to do this." And so I immediately drove down to Texas as quickly as I could, did my residency and fellowship, and became a gastroenterologist and still residing in Texas. I seemed to like the warm a little bit more than that scraping ice off cars. So I started my practice about 20 years ago. Initially, I started doing clinical research specifically for the pharmaceutical industry. And I was helping launch some small biotech firms that were developing products. We were doing research for them, and in that time I realized there was this unmet need. In other words, no drug was being developed, or no drug existed for this big space called irritable bowel syndrome. I started to do research for the first drug that was trying to address this when I was in training. IBS, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, was considered more of a psychological diagnosis and literally I was taught that if you do tests on people and everything is normal, then more than likely, it is a psychological thing. We used to think the same thing about ulcer disease. Whenever it was 50 years ago, if you got an ulcer, it was because you were too stressed. You need to back off work, do something like that. Then we found out that it was probably due to a bacteria called Helicobacter, H Pylori. And the person that discovered that got a Nobel Prize. That same massive paradigm shift was starting to take place when I was doing this research about 15 years ago. And that was that a doctor had shown that irritable bowel syndrome is actually caused by bacteria growing where it shouldn't be. And that's called small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. So it's just that bacteria growing where it shouldn't be. And I was doing the clinical trial for them to look at treating people that had irritable bowel with diarrhea and in passing, I was having a conversation with the lead investigator and he said, unfortunately we'll never be able to help the bloated person with constipation because the type of bacteria that is causing it is a very old, ancient type called archaebacteria, and no modern antibiotics affect it." And that was kind of interesting. And and he said, "the issue is that this type of bacteria produces a gas called methane." So I'm writing on my whiteboard in my office, "archaebacteria methane." And I start thinking, I started the story in the very beginning, 'cause I said I was raised in Nebraska and I scraped ice off my car to come down in Nebraska, the prime export would be agriculture. And what they were trying to do is mandate that these ranchers and farmers give different feed products to the cattle to decrease methane production that they're admitting for the Greenhouse Effect. And I looked at that and I just went, "they've been trying to do this in Nebraska for a really long time. What is it that they're giving these cattle and can it be transferable to humans?" And so that sort of started the "aha!" moment of a bloated cow producing methane could be something eventually that might help the millions of people, and I mean millions, like 20% of the US population suffers from some form of irritable bowel syndrome and many more suffer from bloating and have never been diagnosed. So I spent the next several years, me and my research manager, and we were looking at all the data in animals, and then we came across this combination of three large polyphenols, which are the molecules that make vegetables and fruits colorful. And realized that one of the major ones in there is something called Quebracho Colorado that had never been used in a supplement before, but it is used in wine making and beer making and many other things that humans are already consuming. Went through some trouble of trying to get some Quebracho. This is in the like, weird things that happen with entrepreneurs. The only place that it is being developed is Argentina. And I happen to be half Argentinian, so I'm emailing, I'm calling, I'm trying to do anything to get hold of somebody to get me some of this product up just so I can do a clinical trial on it. And nothing was happening, I'm getting no response. And so I actually called a cousin who's a physician in Argentina. She physically drove to the manufacturing facility, walked in an office and said, "there's a doctor in Dallas that's needs your product. He thinks he found a reason to give it to humans." And so that started this whole domino effect. And then eventually I get this shady bag of material sent to my office and I had to spend a lot of money to have analyzed and everything because they're used to working in the agricultural business where they would just send bags of stuff. And so I was able to get this analyzed and all this other stuff, and then we encapsulated it and then put it with a few other things, and then ultimately did two clinical trials and found that it was remarkably successful in this patient population. And, we were able to launch this company called Atrantil. And that was about seven years ago that we were able to actually launch the company. And we have just been learning more and more about the science of all of this. I've been fortunate enough to do this at the exact time where you and I were talking off air about where there seems to be this push for more awareness about nutrition, more awareness about doing things naturally, and not always relying on drugs to do everything. So I feel like I'm very fortunate to be in this great space, learning a ton. And being able to help millions of people at the same time. So that's where we're at now. Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I love your story. Thank you for sharing that. There's a few different things that really stood out. First of all, I'm curious, did you always want to be a doctor? Is that something that was always a bit of a goal for you, or what made you decide to go into the medical field? Dr. Kenneth Brown: I don't know how detailed you want to get into this, but I will tell you another quick story since this is, that one's very specific because, when I was in eighth grade, summer of eighth grade, my childhood friend got severely burned when he was on vacation with his mom. Third degree burns, ICU, whole nine yards, both him and his mom. And I get a call, you know, I was in touch with him, this is back before cell phones, so it's landlines. I get a call from him and he goes, "they say that I need to get outta the hospital because, mom needs to stay in here a little bit longer." Like they were in the ICU for a long time, so he had skin grafts and everything. And I said, " just come live with us." And didn't even ask my parents and I just said, "Junior's gonna come live with us." And so he came and ended up spending a year living in our house and I was changing his bandages and all this other stuff. One night, at like 8:00 PM at night, doorbell rings and it's a guy-- introduced himself, his name was Leonard Woods. He said, I'm a physical therapist. I hear you have a young man who could use little help. I'd like to volunteer my services. So he just basically rehabbed and then we all became friends, all of us. And of course I'm watching this guy that comes over and volunteers his time and I for sure am gonna be a physical therapist now. And I'm like in ninth grade, go through high school, always kinda shadowing and then during college doing some internships and stuff. And this guy saves my friend and he's this super cool dude and this is what I'm gonna do. And then he pulled me aside and he just said, "Hey, I know that you think this is what you should do, but I really think your calling is to be a doctor and I think you need to apply for medical school." So I went, "okay." I just, at this point, I'm gonna do something in healthcare, just to help people. And the fact that your hero slash mentor is telling you to not do the job he's doing that he loves, I'm like, "okay, I guess I'll apply to med school." And then I ended up graduating college early, so I got a chance to spend a year, and I worked officially for him and he knew I was going to med school and then he spent that year teaching me how to manage employees, teaching me how to manage patients, how to run a busy clinic. And he just said, " dovetail me so that you can see how the business side of this stuff works." And I was fortunate enough to go to medical school already having some idea of how I would do this and then I thought I would be a surgeon and then quickly realized that's a horrible lifestyle. I think I need to shift gears and was internal medicine. And then found gastroenterology and that fit me like a glove. So a gastroenterologist is an internal medicine trained doctor, so they already have a predisposition for a little bit of intellectual curiosity, but you get to do procedures. So you get to get in and immediately fix or help or prevent various diseases. And so as a gastroenterologist, you basically are treating things from the esophagus to the anus. So I got into fellowship to be a gastroenterologist. I'm loving it. And then that's when I started realizing, "wait a minute, all health begins and ends in the gut." I was seeing all these people, they had gut issues years before they had something else. Everybody would complain that they had something else, and so, when I started private practice, that's how come I was drawn immediately after just a few years, I started the first research division of our company and I did research for about 10 years and it was just this beautiful sequence of events that led up to that point where I'm thinking about a bloated cow. I mean, it took a really nice physical therapist to show up and then physical therapist to tell me to do something different-- possibly more, depending how you look at it-- and me to realize that all health begins and ends in the gut. And I basically continued that with that complete curiosity. And I'm continuing to learn all the time as everyone else is, as we're all learning that the gut is probably the root of disease and health. Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Thank you for going to that story. I love hearing the why, what prompted somebody's interest or passion in what they're doing, and it really struck me-- both kind of stories you've shared with me so far about how synergistic from an outsider's perspective your life has been in a few different ways where like, seemingly no connection. So grew up in, in Nebraska and just you didn't like the snow, which I totally relate to by the way, side note. And then drawing from that experience is what helped you translate that into your work more recently. And that, that seems so disjointed, but it actually was this synergistic connection. And then you also have something like, you mentioned the one random place in Argentina and you had the connections, and I just love those stories when what's meant to be comes together in such a way that you could never predict. Dr. Kenneth Brown: For sure. And the other thing about it, you say the story, but I look back and it was months and months of just radio silence. But I knew that we had something there. So it was me asking around, call my mom, "do we have anybody in this part of Argentina?" And so it took that continual pursuit of doing that. It wasn't just, oh, dumb luck. It's there, but it's the knowledge that it's there and it's the knowledge that you have an angle and it's the knowledge to utilize your network to try and get there. The story sounds like it just kind of fell in place, but I think with every entrepreneur that you speak with, there's that classic line, "it only took 10 years to be an overnight success." There's so much more that happens back over here. And I look at this and I realized that some of these decisions that were made-- I don't know if you gave me another shot at this. Do you ever think about this? I mean, you have this incredible dualistic career of being a ballerina and then being in the medtech, entrepreneur space and marketing and it's funny 'cause you love your life and you've got this great situation that you have going, when people say, "would you ever do it again?" I'm like, "no, no way. 'cause I don't know if I would make the right decisions, even though I know what decisions I made. I don't know if I would make the right decision to get exactly where I'm at right now, 'cause I kind of feel like I'm just beginning about where we can go with all this." Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. But that's the fun part, right? So it is kind of an interesting exercise to look back and think about the "what ifs." And if you were to redo it, would you make the same decisions? I've thought about that many times with different aspects where I chose between two seemingly really good options, but I'm so thankful I went with the one I did because that got me to where I am now. But you know, I was chuckling about your overnight sensation comment and I have thought about that so many times where, agree-- from an outside perspective it always looks different-- but I've always appreciated the quote, something like, "the harder I work, the more luck I have," or something like that, Dr. Kenneth Brown: Exactly. Lindsey Dinneen: I also think there's something to be said-- you talked about drawing on your network and the months of work that it did take. But I do think that there is something to be said to being open to possibilities that you wouldn't ordinarily pursue, or opportunities that you wouldn't ordinarily consider, because sometimes those, again, seemingly random, disconnected moments, somehow do all come together. And it might not be this overnight thing, but... Dr. Kenneth Brown: Have you heard of a book called "Range" by David Epstein? Lindsey Dinneen: Nope, but I'm writing it down. Dr. Kenneth Brown: So the book is called "Range: Why Generalists Triumph In a Specialized World." It's really interesting because it's an analysis-- who's looking like business leaders and things like that, and generalists that learn a little bit-- it's always thought like in medicine it's " jack of all trades, but master of none." So it's that whole thing of jack of all trades, but master of none. And so in my field, you wanna become the most specialized of subspecialists that just, you're the expert. And I think because of my path coming in, there was never this devotion to this one thing immediately or I'm gonna be the experts' expert. I'm a generalist in life and I eventually end up in this space of a specialized world. But I seem to be better off 'cause I was a generalist. And what I mean by that is in his book, what he describes is that when you have lots of life experiences-- if you've been in marketing for a little bit, and then of course you did have that, brief minor in accounting during college, and then you dabbled into sales over here-- and what he showed is that if you are adept at looking at this and you're still passionate about everything, you make the neural connections between these different experiences so you can see a connection between something where others are not. And almost by definition, that's kind of what genius is, where you can continually see things and go, "yes, this idea over here relates to that article that I read five years ago." I see where this happens, and that's how you end up having an electric car company and a rocket company and a whatever that Elon Musk does, right? He's just pooling from all this knowledge and forming something. So I think that is probably the most important thing, and I'm, and I say all this because my massively transformative goal for the rest of my life is to cure something that to me is the, like, the worst thing that can happen, which is robbing you of your memories. So dementia, it's an epidemic and it continues to go on, and I feel like what you lose when you have any type of brain trauma, even minor trauma, CTE, when you have toxins, when you start developing Alzheimer's and things, you lose the dendritic, meaning the connections between the neurons that allow that use of prior knowledge to now be integrated with new knowledge. And so that's why I think it's so important to protect the brain through the gut. Is any of that making sense? I feel like it just went down a rabbit hole. Lindsey Dinneen: No, I love rabbit holes, first of all, so that's great. But also I think that is such a fantastic goal and it's so important and actually very encouraging to hear people working on these kinds of things, and the losing your memories and not being able to recognize people you love but realizing that maybe there are ways to slow that process or reverse or cure, that's a wonderful, hopeful thing. Dr. Kenneth Brown: So that's the thing. Nobody's talking about that, but there's so much evidence out there. So one of my most frustrating things being in this space-- so what's happened since the-- I did, traditionally trained gastroenterologists, and then I'm doing pharmaceutical research and then I figure out that there's this space where maybe natural products can start filling the void, and that has really just shifted me to what I would consider myself more of a functional gastroenterologist. I still do traditional gastroenterology stuff, but I sure would like to find a more natural solution before we just knee-jerk and put you on drugs. And one of my most frustrating things when talking to colleagues is, and I'm not throwing any individual under the bus here, but I start talking about, "oh, did you see this?" For instance, "hey, I just read a great article on the neuromodulatory effects of flavonoids, polyphenols, my world and gut microbiota through the gut brain access and how we can ultimately start healing our brains by having the right microbiome plus flavonoids. So that's an article. Just reviewed it. Super cool. Neat." And discussing that amongst my colleagues would be like there's no data on that. And I went to a meeting recently and I was preparing to give a talk on, if you keep your microbiome young, you'll stay young. And, and it's all about manipulating your microbiome. And there's evidence to show that our supercentenarians, the ones that live past 95 or whatever, they actually have a microbiome, the microbiome is the collection of bacteria in your body, the collection of bacteria primarily in your colon that they have their own genome. You and I have a 99% identical genome, but we could have a 90% different genome in our microbiome, which may be one of the reasons why I age quick and you don't, one of the reasons why I get cancer and you don't, got it? The microbiome, it's the collection of the bacteria in our body. So I was in a meeting, so I'm already preparing for this talk about the microbiome. And so I'm going to Croatia to give it. So I'm like really excited and it's, it's motivating 'cause I'm learning and everything. And I go to a meeting where a professor emeritus is gonna give a talk on probiotics and he gets up and the actual title of the talk was the "Probiotic Guide to the Gastroenterologist in 2023." And he said, "I think we can finally agree to this," and this is his words, "that the data does not support the use of traditional probiotics and we need to move away from this, and this is data. So some people do well in probiotics, but the data really is showing that probably traditional probiotics don't survive the digestive tract." And he said, "but what we really need to start thinking is we need to work on our microbiomes, but unfortunately, there's no data out there." I'm in the audience and I have a folder of about 200 articles and a Mendeley. Mendeley is a journal repository on my computer of like another 300, and I'm like, "no data out there?" And it just got me thinking. I'm like, unless you have a specific desire to go look at something, the data that you're referring to is when a drug rep shows up at your office and gives you a detail piece 'cause that's how we're being reminded that there's new research. Here's the new drug, not are there any new, because this is like bench research that's going on all over the world. Now we live in unprecedented times. I can find an article that hasn't even been translated in English yet, translate it from some postdoc candidate in Thailand doing crazy work on the stuff that I'm working on. And this is a true story. This is exactly what happened, and it's helping me develop more products because I'm like, "Oh, this person did do the heavy lifting already." And it was done 10 years ago and nobody's probably even heard of this. It's out there. It's just, do you have the motivation and the time to go look for things? Right now doctors are super busy and the time that they have is the five minutes they get with the person that brings them lunch. Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah. So pivoting just slightly. I'm so thankful again that there are people like you doing this research and analyzing this data and helping us live healthier, fuller lives. So first of all, just thank you for that. I am curious if there are any moments that stand out to you throughout your career as really affirming that this was the right career path for you. Dr. Kenneth Brown: Yeah. There was a-- I can't call it "aha moment" or anything. It is a, " you cannot not do this" moment, is what it came down to. So I'm an adult doctor and a woman who quit her job brought her 18 year old, severely autistic son in to see me. And I don't have any particular specialty in autism or anything like that. And what she said to me is, she goes, "I need help, 'cause he's now a young man. He's big and he's strong." And she said, "Nobody will take him. Like nobody will babysit him because he can be aggressive. And he's getting much worse with his autism and things are very rough on me, I had to quit my job. I have to spend all my time with him at home." And I said, "I'm just curious, why here?" Now this is years ago, so it isn't like I was really deep into the functional medicine yet. And she said, "I've noticed one thing. I've noticed that when he eats, he's much more combative, and he's non-verbal so his communication is just really limited." And she said, "There has to be something with his gut if it's doing this." it didn't take very long to realize that he was getting super bloated after he ate and his belly hurt and he couldn't say, "I'm hurt, I'm hurting." And so now we're in my wheelhouse. I started doing some research real quick and it's very evident that people on the autism spectrum disorder can have dysmotility or changes in the motility of their intestines, which can predispose to developing bacterial overgrowth, which is exactly my space now. And so we treated him and we treated him with both an antibiotic and my product and then changes diet. Changed lifestyle, change his diet, just made some changes. No processed foods. Don't open a bag. It's whole foods. I personally, with the way that we grow our crop, I really try and get patients to avoid gluten as well. I think it's very neuroinflammatory. And so she came back three months later and she was crying. And she was so happy. And this young man was calm. He was talking. She's like, "he can eat." She's like, "I haven't seen him like this in 10 years since he was like a little kid." And I'm like, "Okay, this is the n-of-1 that tells you, the brain and gut are connected and you have to keep pursuing that." And so that was oof, I dunno, six, seven years ago or guess well, like shortly after we launched. So I guess about, yeah, I dunno, six years ago or so. Yeah. So when you say that, I always think about that, if that's ever a case. I've heard that many other times since then and I don't think it's just the product or the antibiotics, I think it's the lifestyle change as well. Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. And how it all comes together to support Oh my word. Wow. Thank you for sharing that story. That is really powerful and I can see why it would be such a moment that would make you say, "yeah, this is what I'm meant to do, this is the impact I can potentially have on changing someone's life." There's nothing quite like that. Dr. Kenneth Brown: Yeah. And then the more that you get into it, it just more reaffirming. So then it just becomes all consuming. You're like, you have to do this. And I think everybody that owns a business or is an entrepreneur-- I'm the visionary. We need an implementer to make things run at the company and all this. So if I had all the time and all the money in the world, it would just be 24/7 trying things out, looking at these natural products. The beauty is we're learning that the modulation of the microbiome, the gut microbiota, the thing that seems to positively affect them the most are these large, stable polyphenols. And it's these large, stable polyphenols that get broken down into smaller phenolic compounds that work in an anti-inflammatory way and can cross the blood brain barrier, which is what I think is happening. Just go ahead and name any neuro-inflammatory disease from anxiety, A D H D, dementia, autism spectrum. There's different neurologic mechanisms primarily excitability and overactivity due to inflammation, creating all of it. So knowing that's the root cause, where does most of the inflammation come from? It actually can start in the gut. So knowing that, how do we stop that inflammation? And then how do we improve the microbiome to produce anti-inflammatory aspects that then heal the brain? And the science is mapping out there. I think the traditional scientists will say that we don't know enough about it. And that's true, 'cause you can't manipulate it in a way that people wanna manipulate it, but, I'm kind of taking that functional approach. Let Mother Nature figure it out. Just give your body what it wants, give it the foundation. Make sure you have a good sleep. Make sure that you socialize. Make sure that you exercise a little and make sure that you eat the right foods and all of it will sort of work itself out If you have your foundation right. Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. So last year, I had the opportunity to spend a little bit of time in Puerto Rico and there was this beautiful rainforest that we did a hike in. And it was really interesting, our guide was telling us that with the hurricane that they had just a few years back, had destroyed like, I wanna say maybe 80%, it was a very high percentage of the flora and fauna of the rainforest. And when we were there, there was no way we would've known that had she not pointed it out. And it really struck me how resilient living things are. I think about this with humans as well. And when you intentionally try to nurture and cultivate and take care of yourself or other living things, how much we can bounce back from and how much we can heal and regenerate and make new, and I just thought of that when you were talking about the possibilities that if we can heal our gut, maybe we can heal our brain and heal some of these other things that come from, from that inflammation. Dr. Kenneth Brown: Yeah, for sure. So let's use that same analogy with the hurricane, because what we do to our microbiome is a tropical forest. Exactly what you are walking through. There's trillions of bacteria. There's thousands of species. The more diverse it is, the healthier it is. Just like the rainforest you were walking through. Now you take antibiotics, you eat a highly processed diet, you do something to disrupt it. That's equivalent to that hurricane disrupting the rainforest. The difference is we continue to do that and what we try to do is, we try to take control of it and take drugs or take different things to try and say, "oh, I'm gonna heal it with this." So the equivalent would be, when the rainforest was knocked down, somebody comes in and goes, "the rainforest was destroyed, but what I'm gonna do is I'm going to plant anything, name it, corn. I'm gonna plant grass, anything." And so now you have a big lush field of grass. Now on the one side is just grass, and on the other side is a dense tropical forest. The dense tropical forest is the healthier version. We tend to focus on one bacterial species. That's where the science is. It's like, how do we grow more of this? How do we do more of this when it's the diversity that has to happen? They left the rainforest alone and it figured it out. And grew back quickly. The more that they would intervene with that, the slower that process would be. Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Thank you for taking my own thoughts and putting it in, into exactly what we're talking about 'cause I appreciate that. Okay, so I am gonna take the conversation slightly differently, so just for fun, imagine you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, could be related to your work, but it doesn't have to be. What would you choose to teach and why? Dr. Kenneth Brown: Oh my goodness, it's gonna be so boring 'cause it's, I mean, the masterclass would be this exact same topic. It's, you can protect your brain through your gut, would be what it is just because there's too much evidence that so little people are talking about it. And would it be a masterclass, 'cause I'm still learning? You'd pay me a million dollars and we would have to share it, 'cause it would be a group learning session. That's what it would be like. Everybody that attends, we all teach each other and share the million. Lindsey Dinneen: There you go. You can use part of it to further your work because you were saying, if you had unlimited resources, how much more could you do? So, we can share the love. Dr. Kenneth Brown: Yeah, I just, immediately was thinking, "my ego would not allow me to accept a million dollars to give a class". I'm like, "oh my gosh." What kind of a, like, there's my PowerPoint. Could never be that good deserving a million. Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, yeah. Like We'll just give it to your organization and I'm sure you could find good ways to use it. I'm sure that would be a worthwhile masterclass to take, and it would be just a good learning experience for everyone. So, good answer. What is the one thing you wish to be remembered for after you leave this world? Dr. Kenneth Brown: I wanna be remembered as a curious and kind person. Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. I like that. And then final question, what's one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it? Dr. Kenneth Brown: Dude, I'm so boring on these questions. Like my knee jerk is like, oh, my family. I want to give something cooler than that. Oh my gosh. I try to practice some mindfulness type things. Have you heard of neurolinguistic programming? NLP? And so you know how there's an anchoring technique so that you can get yourself excited or happy? I will say that my happy memories would be, I took my family to Spain and we went to a Michelin star restaurant and had a chef's tasting menu there. And just thinking about that is my, anchoring to be happy. And then this summer, we went to Portugal and did the exact same thing, except the kids are older and all this other stuff. And so something that makes me smile immediately. Alright, there we go. It doesn't even have to be me. Something that makes me smile immediately is when people are loving and caring and they're breaking bread with each other over a nice Mediterranean meal. Lindsey Dinneen: That is a great answer. Yes. I would have to say that I, I can fully support that. I love both Spain and Portugal, and some of my fondest food memories would have to be there too. So see this. Dr. Kenneth Brown: It's just that feeling of, just openness and enjoying and discussing. There's something primal about breaking bread with other humans in a way that is, I don't know. And of course, it's a chef's tasting menu, so you don't know what's coming. There's that dopamine anticipation, and then it gets put down and it's like nine courses. It's just stuff like that that's awesome. Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, I love it. That's amazing. Thank you so very much for joining me today. This has been such a great conversation, and I learned a lot. I'm very thankful for the work that you do and just all the ways that you finding to help people live their best lives. I just wanna, again, say thank you for your time and as just a small token of that, we're honored to be making a donation on your behalf to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, which is dedicated to preventing animal cruelty in the United States. And we just appreciate again, your time, your efforts, and we just wish you continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. Dr. Kenneth Brown: Thank you so much, Lindsey. Thank you so much for having me on. And I really enjoyed this and I enjoyed our 10 minute off the record banter and I feel like you would be a great guest on the Gut Check Project, my podcast, and we can talk about the ballerina days and all that. Let's do it. Lindsey Dinneen: That sounds amazing. Alright, well, thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I'd love if you'd share this episode with a colleague or two and we will catch you next time.  The Leading Difference podcast is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a contract design and manufacturing firm specializing in the development, production and post-market support of diagnostic and therapeutic active medical devices, including implantables and wearables for neuromodulation and other class three indications. Velentium's core competencies include electrical design, mechanical design, embedded software, mobile apps, contract manufacturing, embedded cybersecurity, OT cybersecurity, systems engineering, human factors and usability, and automated test systems. Velentium works with clients worldwide from startups seeking seed funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

In this week's episode I interview top gastroenterologist Dr. Kenneth Brown, traditionally trained medical doctor and functional medicine physician. Dr. Brown teaches us all about creating a healthy gut, how our microbiome influences disease, and the gut-brain axis. As a special treat, towards the end of the episode, he answers all of our listener-submitted questions about gut health. This week's recipe is Cream Cheese Egg Cups. Schedule a visit today at www.bodymetrixhealth.com. My Nutrition Coach We understand ongoing support is critical for long term success; especially at the beginning of your journey. Unfortunately many health insurance plans do not offer adequate coverage for ongoing support. This is where My Nutrition Coach closes the gap. Click here to start your free trial!

01:00 Israel on the brink, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/far-right-government-in-israel-votes-to-limit-supreme-court-powers/ar-AA1eheDN?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=a803a22062674d7cbaf63868d91e5aef&ei=11 03:00 Redbar Decodes Song, 'Try that in a small town', https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiDF4aqSsiY 08:10 Decoding RFK's alleged anti-semitism, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l5bD96GTaI 20:00 Deep Left Jokl's Intro to the Channel (2023), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN1VgvViUps 51:30 Lukeford.com: Public Sex, celebrity and the internet, https://www.lukeford.net/Images/photos3/Derkits.pdf 1:10:45 Elliott Blatt joins on Deep Left JOKL 1:17:00 JOKL and the Jews 1:19:00 JOKL's Christianity 1:25:00 JOKL's opposition to HBD 1:32:00 People aren't evolved yet to handle the internet The radicalism of having a good time, https://www.ft.com/content/f406635c-254e-4d30-b9f4-0ba2ed8f93b2 https://sites.libsyn.com/217709/caribbean-rhythms-with-bap-episode-141-geishas https://sites.libsyn.com/217709/caribbean-rhythms-with-bap-episode-140-moldbug-versus-tradcons Decoding Bronze Age Pervert, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=149223 Bondi Badlands: The definitive story of Sydney's gay hate murders, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=149244 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/16/bronze-age-pervert-masculinity-00105427 https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/bronze-age-pervert-dissertation-leo-strauss https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-conservatives-must-reject-the-bronze-age-mindset-and-offer-something-better/ The Bronze Age Mindset (6-22-18), https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=122333 Phenomenal Conservatism & Epistemology w/ Michael Huemer, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Heoei-RFpZA Virtually You: The Dangerous Powers of the E-Personality, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=121464 Highlights, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=143746 https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

On this episode we talk to minister Cleo Brown, Brother Kenny Brown about prayer, Presence and faith in God and how they connect. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/greg509/message

00:30 Kevin MacDonald vs Nathan Cofnas, https://twitter.com/TOOEdit 14:30 Kenneth Brown on the logic of racial polarization, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6aYNXFcjYY 25:40 Tucker Carlson on gun control 29:00 Would You Date a Podcast Bro?, https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/06/style/dating-men-with-podcasts.html 46:00 The trans killer's manifesto 49:00 I struggle with anxiety 51:00 Best Practices for Anxiety Treatment, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT5-TNqUg-w 1:08:00 Politico: Why Glenn Youngkin Would Be Crazy Not to Run for President, https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/03/29/glenn-youngkin-presidential-candidacy-republican-party-00089346 1:12:00 Tight vs loose states, https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/29/opinion/red-blue-tight-loose-state.html 1:28:00 NYT: How the Right Turned Radical and the Left Became Depressed, https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/29/opinion/america-unhappy-poll.html 1:35:00 NY: The Dirty Secrets of a Smear Campaign, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/04/03/the-dirty-secrets-of-a-smear-campaign 1:40:00 Historian Matt Cockerill joins the show to discuss the JQ, https://twitter.com/History__Speaks 1:57:30 Amy Wax and free speech 2:01:30 Matt Cockerill says Mike Enoch keeps running away from an agreed upon debate 2:03:40 Richard Spencer 2:14:00 Wokeism is stronger in the USA than the UK 2:17:00 Scholar Nathan Cofnas, https://twitter.com/nathancofnas 2:19:00 Nathan Cofnas vs Kevin MacDonald, https://nathancofnas.com/debate-with-kevin-macdonald/ 2:22:00 Cockerill: Was Hitler a Leftist? https://historyspeaks.substack.com/p/was-hitler-an-economic-leftist 2:30:00 Were the Nazis fascist? 2:33:00 Apolloism and Mark Brahmin 2:36:00 Matt is just back from India 2:38:00 Indian air pollution 2:41:00 Holocaust Deniers Humiliated by Inability to Explain Disappearance of Millions of Jews in Nazi Camps, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKZ732GhBTk WP: How Fox News is trying to guide its viewers away from Trump, https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/28/trump-desantis-fox-news/ India's uprising, https://claremontreviewofbooks.com/indias-uprising/ How Christian is Christian nationalism? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/04/03/how-christian-is-christian-nationalism How freedom loving Florida fell for Ron DeSantis? https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/05/ron-desantis-florida-state-politics-gop/673489/ How to Understand the Well-Being Gap between Liberals and Conservatives, https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2023/03/how-to-understand-the-well-being-gap-between-liberals-and-conservatives/ Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

Behind the Brand with Prestige & EZ BlueZ: Kenneth Brown by WNHH Community Radio

Today, in the Scheer Madness Podcast, Rachel interviews the hosts of the Gut Check Podcast, Dr. Kenneth Brown (MD) and Eric Rieger (CRNA). Ken is a board certified gastroenterologist that turned his private practice into a hotbed of innovation. He has long been intrigued on how to best care for his patients. He challenged big pharma and developed an all natural solution (Atrantil) for bloating and symptoms of IBS. Eric is Ken's business partner and actually met Ken while delivering anesthesia to his patients in 2012.Eric enjoys science and research swell, and has a passion for helping people find sensible means to take care of themselves, but always armed with the best information. The trio discuss the importance of keeping our microbiome young and what this entails for our overall health, diversifying our intake to enrich the gut's good bacteria, and the role microbial diversity plays in our gut health.  Here is my 10% discount link for Atrantil: https://atrantil.com/?rfsn=2452322.bf5041850For more information about working with our team at Rachel Scheer Nutrition, book a free 30-minute call at www.rachelscheer.com/application  Listen ON:Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/scheer-madness/id1490423541 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5OLd9BtesW7Oe4nSH0QF9W Chapters:00:00 Intro03:20 Keep your microbiome young09:58 Socialization: Why people tend to live long 13:58 Microbiomes break down what we eat18:46 How do we select the right kind of foods?22:20 How probiotics work25:45 Migrating to a healthy lifestyle31:00 The short-term diet - a healing protocol34:32 Microbial diversity37:40 Circadian rhythm41:39 What would your microbiome say?44:50 How to diversify your diet49:09 Artificial sweeteners wreak havoc in the gutCheck out Gut Check Project:https://www.instagram.com/kbmdhealth/https://www.facebook.com/KennethBrownMD/https://kennethbrownmd.com/ Gut Check ProjectConnect with Rachel:Website | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube

What would your microbiome say? In this episode of the Love Your Gut Podcast, I talk to Dr. Kenneth Brown, about treating IBS with spore-based probiotics, the bacteria that contributes to gut symptoms, and developing Atrantíl. Dr. Brown received his medical degree from the University of Nebraska Medical School, and completed his Fellowship in Gastroenterology in San Antonio, Texas. He is a Board-Certified gastroenterologist and has been in practice for over 18 years, with a clinical focus on inflammatory bowel disease and irritable bowel syndrome. His mission is to bridge the gap between medical and natural science. For over a decade, he has been conducting clinical research for various pharmacological companies. Dr. Brown recognized an unmet need for something natural that could help his IBS patients find real relief. After developing the only all-natural and clinically-proven answer for IBS and bloating for 6 years, Atrantíl launched in the summer of 2015. Dr. Brown developed Atrantíl to help those suffering from symptoms of IBS, which we now know are caused by bacterial overgrowth. He continues his researched in finding natural solutions based in science, with the intent of providing affordable, effective solutions. Tune in to hear more about IBS dieting, pelvic floor issues, and the ways that we can best love our guts.To purchase Atrantil or Atrantil Pro use this link: https://us.fullscript.com/welcome/drheatherfinleyI would love to connect on Instagram or drheatherfinley.co

00:20 Tucker Carlson on Jose Alba, https://nypost.com/2022/07/06/nyc-bodega-worker-jose-alba-charged-in-fatal-stabbing-feared-for-his-life-family-says/ 24:00 Death of a nationalist at age 29, https://radixjournal.substack.com/p/a-cautionary-tale#details 25:00 He was one of the nation's most revered gay cops. His arrest changed everything., https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/interactive/2022/gay-dc-cop-parson-teen-florida-arrest/?itid=hp-top-table-main-t-4 48:00 Mind, Modernity, Madness: The Impact of Culture on Human Experience, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=143670 52:00 Boris Johnson resigns as British PM 1:04:00 Hunter Biden has been at the White House all week 1:25:00 Kenneth Brown on Internet Friendship Pornography, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXrZuqyXPDY 1:44:00 Who are we? By Samuel Huntington 1:47:00 Josh Neal on the state of American nationalism, https://youtu.be/iqWXoxA7BgM?t=2337 1:49:00 Abby Shapiro Nationalism, https://youtu.be/Y4JkrKqaiUM?t=350 1:51:00 REVIEW: The Star Chamber of Stanford: On the Secret Trial and Invisible Persecution of a Stanford Law Fellow, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=143937 2:08:00 EMJ v Greg Johnson, https://www.bitchute.com/video/N3RR8ZloGOMO/ 2:15:00 Laura Ingraham on globalism Stanford Star Chamber, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=143824 My Best Work: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=143746 Professor of Apocalypse: The Many Lives of Jacob Taubes, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=143590 http://vouchnationalism.com https://postkahanism.substack.com/p/the-failure-and-importance-of-kahanism?s=r Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

00:20 Who do you trust? Where do you put your money? 02:30 Tucker Carlson: Who do you trust? 04:00 Biden's war on fossil fuels 26:00 Hunter Biden 42:00 Organic free range chicks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_Meat_(TV_series) 50:00 Dutch legal scholar, ex-politician Eva Vlaardingerbroek, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eva_Vlaardingerbroek 55:00 Eva's Instagram, https://www.instagram.com/eva.vlaar/?hl=en 59:00 Eva's Twitter, https://twitter.com/EvaVlaar 1:08:00 Eva against defining rape down, https://www.ewmagazine.nl/nederland/achtergrond/2020/02/houd-de-overheid-uit-uw-slaapkamer-738209/ 1:11:00 Eva's legal scholarship, https://www.ewmagazine.nl/nederland/achtergrond/2020/01/vlaardingerbroek-idealisme-naar-boven-193866w/ 1:17:00 Kenneth Brown seeks rejuvenation 1:23:00 Mirror of Intimacy Webinar with Alex Katehakis: ACTIONS, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ChxloHxYYU https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-06-14/israeli-lawmaker-rebuked-wishing-palestinians-disappear https://postkahanism.substack.com/p/the-failure-and-importance-of-kahanism?s=r https://www.wsj.com/articles/fannie-mae-freddie-mac-fhfa-housing-finance-agency-racial-favoritism-equity-biden-bubble-market-redlining-mortgage-lending-11655059365?mod=opinion_lead_pos1 https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/three-blind-kings-edward-luttwak 7 ideas in Zeihan's new book: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/14/arts/music/lizzo-lyrics-grrrls.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/09/world/europe/michael-woodley-buffalo-shooting.html?smid=tw-share Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

00:00 Trans activists outraged by Ricky Gervais new Netflix special 05:00 How dopamine drives our addictions, https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/allinthemind/how-dopamine-drives-our-addictions/13646372 09:20 Mark Collett talks to Greg Johnson, Ethan Ralph 15:00 Caleb Maupin denounces Richard Spencer, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIRW7Rys0e8 19:00 Kenneth Brown says the Right is addicted to losing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pEBLYG4P3Q 21:00 The Rise of Reform and the Rabbinic Response (Part 5) || Dr. Marc Shapiro, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmZwL99wyng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

This content is for Members only. Come and join us by subscribing here In the meantime, here's some more details about the show: It's a warm welcome then to the man himself: Dr. Brad Stone - the JazzWeek Programmer of the Year 2017, who's here every Thursday to present The Creative Source - a two hour show, highlighting jazz-fusion and progressive jazz flavours from back then, the here and now, plus occasional forays into the future. Please feel free to get in touch with Brad with any comments or suggestions you might have; he'll be more than happy to hear from you: brad@soulandjazz.com or follow him via Facebook or Twitter. Enjoy! The Creative Source 3rd February 2022 Artist - Track - Album - Year Eric Person feat. Houston Person    Blue Vision    Blue Vision    2022 Pat Bianchi    Until You Come Back to Me (That's What I'm Gonna Do)    Something to Say: The Music of Stevie Wonder    2021 Jeremy Monteiro & Alberto Marsico    Catastrophy    Jazz-Blues Brothers    2019 Greg Amirault    News Blues    News Blues    2021 Sean Fyfe Quartet    Happy    Late Night    2022 Andrew Renfroe    Ghosts (Borrowed Time)    Run in the Storm    2021 Bruce Forman    Feel the Barn    Reunion!    2021 Randy Napoleon    The Presence of Fire    Rust Belt Roots    2021 Graham Dechter    Moonithology    Major Influence    2021 Dave Stryker    One Thing at a Time    As We Are    2022 Steve Slagle    The Four Margarets    Ballads: Into the Heart of It    2022 Kenneth Brown    Pieces of My Heart    Love People    2021 New Standard Quintet    The Guy in the Corner    Another Time, Another Place    2021 Micah Graves    Lost in Time in Central Square    Pawns: Not for the Ordinary    2021 Blue Road Records Studio Sessions Band    Espresso Bueno    Ira Sullivan: The Tribute Album    2021 Michael Eckroth Group    Soul Cha    Plena    2021 Carlos Henriquez    Hydrants Love All    The South Bronx Story    2021 Gui Duvignau    Canto de Xangô    Baden    2022 Jim Knapp Orchestra    Modal Horizon    It's Not Business, It's Personal    2021 Alistair Spence/Joe Williamson/Christopher Cantillo    Slow Spin    Curve    2021 The post The Creative Source (#CreativeSource) – 3rd February 2022 appeared first on SoulandJazz.com | Stereo, not stereotypical ®.

This holiday season was supposed to be a full-on celebration. But with the pandemic still ravaging parts of the US, how are business owners coping? What are the new challenges? And what are the big opportunities as they look to 2022? We talk to three business owners about what they learned from 2020, how they've pivoted for this holiday season, what challenges they expect to face even beyond the pandemic–from ongoing supply chain disruptions to exploring new revenue streams–and what they are hopeful about as they ring in 2022. Featuring Beau Coan, operations manager for Papa Noel Christmas Trees in Austin, TX; Kate Vourvoulis, co-owner of Good Luck Wine Shop in Pasadena, CA; and Kenneth Brown, co-owner of Sisters of the New South restaurant in Savannah, GA.

Eric Rieger  0:00  Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family, I hope that you are having a great day. It is now time for a new gut check project episode and guess what? Brain FM is in the house. That's right. Brain FM ceo dan Clark and chief scientist, Kevin Woods. Join us on the show today to talk about an incredible application of sound improving your life solving anxiety, sleep issues. Focus just an incredible tool that I can personally say I've used now for well over a year so as my family so as kids who has kids family, and so have several of our patients, they love brain FM so I don't want to spoil a single thing is an awesome, awesome episode. So let's get to our sponsors and get straight to talking to Dan and Kevin. We of course are always sponsored by atrantil. My co host Kenneth brown discovered, formulated and created atrantil to give to his patients to solve issues that are similar to IBS to give them all the polyphenols that they need for their daily lives whether they be athletes or they have gut issues or they just want to stay healthy. Go to love my tummy.com That's love my tummy.com Pick up your daily poly phenols today and of course unrefined bakery, let me just say some unrefined bakery. My wife is gluten free eater. She's got celiac disease. So I stopped by there and I picked up from unrefined bakery for my wife's birthday. I nice pumpkin pie. It was delicious. You would have no idea that was a gluten free product. It just tastes like awesome pumpkin pie. So go to unrefined bakery.com If you've never ordered from there before use code gut check and save 20% off your entire first order they deliver to any of the connected 48 and or you can you can just stop by go to unrefined bakery.com If you happen to be in the north Texas Metroplex area, and I think they have four locations. So just check them out and they got awesome stuff cupcakes, breads, various snacks that otherwise you may think I have to remain keto or I have to remain gluten free now. I can't have these awesome foods. That's just not true. Check out unrefined bakery.com today use code gut check for 20% off and last but not least go to KB MD health.com. And soon we will be featuring the signature package of course which includes atrantil CBD and of course you can also get not only CBD and atrantil there you can also pick up so if you're feigns That's right, Brock elite and broccoli pro exclusively available from physicians and guess what my co host he's a physician so we get to sell it and we bring it to a cost that you can't get anywhere else. So check out KB MD health.com Today Alright, let's get to some brain FM right now.Hello Gacek project fans and KB indie Hill family welcome to episode number 64. I'm your host Eric Rinker, joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And honestly you got a an awesome intro to make here for everybody.Ken Brown  3:52  Yeah, so we're super excited. This is something I'm extremely passionate about because we have the CEO and the lead scientist for a product that I believe in. I love I have my patients use. I have my staff use I have all my family use, and it is called Brain FM, this if you have any trouble focusing if you have any trouble sleeping, if you have any trouble with anxiety, there is a really, really cool way to correct this. And we've got the owner and CEO, Dan Clark here, and Kevin JP woods, Ph. D. Super smart, and they're going to explain to us why well quite honestly why it's so effective on me why it's so effective on my patients. And one of the most exciting things we've been trying to do this for quite a while now pre pandemic, we realised Eric and I realised that when we tried this on a few patients at the endoscopy suite, not only did patients have a better experience, they were calm going into it. They woke up quicker and almost you vigorously every patient loved without question. And so I'm so excited because they're here in town visiting from New York because we're going to end up actually doing an official study where I think it's going to be groundbreaking. I think we're going to be able to change how people feel about outpatient procedures like colonoscopies decrease the anxiety. And it's not just anecdotal. It's because there's science behind it. There is a growing movement with this, and I am just absolutely thrilled episode 64 is probably going to be our biggest episode, ever to date.Eric Rieger  5:33  I would imagine so and I don't want to take away time from you all feeding in but just so that y'all know, this is 20 months in the making, I mean, Coronavirus, COVID hit, and derailed all of our effort to really we should, we should be 20 months further down the road of actually implementing this. And it's really for patient benefit, which is what we talk about here all the time. This will enhance the experience, I believe, for people who come through and have procedures. So, Dan, Kevin JP, what's happening?Unknown Speaker  6:02  Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks for having us.Eric Rieger  6:04  Well, thanks for coming all the way down to Texas. How's Dallas, amazing, amazing. NotUnknown Speaker  6:09  my first time in Texas, everything is enormous. The streets are three times as wide as they are in New York. I tried across the street, and I just keep on walking. Keep on walking.Eric Rieger  6:19  Well, awesome. So yesterday was your first time to join us at the GI suite? And for honestly, I don't want to steal anything. But what was your impression that you thought you might see on an application of your technology? And then how do you see it fitting in kind of how Ken and I have been trying to experience it ourselves?Unknown Speaker  6:39  Yeah, sure. So first, let's maybe tell everyone what the technology is. And then we can talk about how we jumped in and started this whole process. The backstory is actually interesting. So basically, brain FM, we make functional music designed to help people focus, relax, or sleep better. And mostly, we have a consumer product, where we have 2 million people that use us to jump into focus or switch into relax, or help them sleep. And we've been having really great success there. We have papers and some things in review in nature, which we're really excited about. So it's evidence and science backed. There's some really novel ways which we use music to basically switch you into that state. And I'll let Kevin, jump into that maybe come back to that and some of the science. But what's interesting is while we're chugging ahead on that, what my girlfriend actually she starts going to get a tonsillectomy. And she's signs her life to me, we're dating for six months, I now know we're in a serious relationship. And, and I realised that I'm terrified, and I'm not even getting surgery. And she's very scared. She's never been under before. And I realised at that point that we can use the same things that we're using science to advance on our consumer angle, we can use it in relax in a medical grade setting. Remember calling up Kevin and saying, Hey, can we do anything? And he starts looking at the literature, he starts looking at other things. He goes, Yes, I actually think we can improve it a lot. I pitched that to you guys. When we met. Yeah, like I think we met probably three months later. Just a coincidence. And you'd love the idea. And that's when we became here. So it's really cool. It's been definitely long time in the making. But it was amazing. When we were doing it some some yesterday. And then one gentleman woke up. And he was so he was so he was almost emotional. He was so happy. He's like, every single time I wake up, this is like the worst or most traumatic thing that can happen. And I was using this music and I woke up. And it was it was it was fine.Unknown Speaker  8:46  And I've done this several times before without music. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  8:49  And that's the thing that we're trying to do is how do we help people relax into surgery, and then wake up, non groggy alert, and in being able to get on with their lives without, you know, making this traumatic, because a lot of people are so scared. And I know for me personally, it was really cool to see you guys doing the art form that you have, because I was able to see that it isn't scary. There's this there's this almost like divider between people that are non medical and medical have and for being able to cross over it and bring a bridge, using some of our music, I think is really what we're set up to do.Eric Rieger  9:27  So it's interesting that that, honestly, it was really awesome. I think that the first person that y'all got to see feedback from was somebody who was so engaged and immediately wanted to tell you all about it. And I only just want to just so the audience understands exactly what Dan's describing because it was awesome. So kid, I saw this multiple times before they even got here when we use brain FM as an experiment, but essentially this particular patient, he wasn't high high anxieties per se for him his singular case, but he had a history of waking up erratic very emotional, hard to console, not very comfortable in his surroundings as he was emerging. He even told you all, he feared how he was going to wake up. Yeah. How would you describe that you saw him wake up.Unknown Speaker  10:12  My goodness, he was he was happy. He looked straight in the eyes. And he thanked us on a personal level. And that meant so much. And just knowing that he had those prior experiences, and that he saw such an enormous difference, and I remember him saying, How can I recommend this to people? How can I tell people? Whoa, hold up, we're not ready for that quite yet. But yeah, he was ready to tell the world he was just so excited. And theEric Rieger  10:38  credit, the greatest thing is, it's non invasive, meaning that I don't have to inject a new drug brand doesn't have to use a new scope tip or something new, gigantic piece of equipment. I mean, this is something that we can apply. It's practical. And it's gave us real results in appreciable results. AndUnknown Speaker  10:57  it's enjoyable to absolutely. And that's the thing about music is it is familiar to people, they understand it. And yet we have this music with a scientific twist on it. Right? We have a dive into the science later. But you know, it's not exactly the music that you know, but it still is entertaining and fun to listen to. And as something that can distract you, while you're you know, lying there maybe worrying about the procedure you're about to undergo. So, you know, it's art and science coming together in a really special way. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  11:25  yeah. And I think what's cool about it is, to Kevin's point, people for 1000s of years have always used music, right to be able to control their environment, right. And, you know, there's been people that have tried with this in medical settings. But it's, it's always lacking some of the results, some of the things that are proven in science that this can make a better experience, what we're really trying to do is combine both worlds between, you know, auditory neuroscience with Kevin's background, and with a product that can be brought into these experiences that isn't, is more than a placebo. It's something that is shown to have an effect, and it makes everything better. So it's a win for the patient. It's a win for the the clinic, it's a win for everyone involved, because everything just becomes a little bit easier with something that everyone's already used to, which is music.Eric Rieger  12:20  Again, I know that whenever you've had to had conversations with patients before they come in for their very first colonoscopy, the level of fear and anxiety for somebody who simply has never even endured a procedure before it can be very real, and oftentimes occupies a lot of the time in the clinic for either you or Megan, or one of the nurses or the MA's to really kind of talk them off the ledge. So what have you seen incorporating something like brain FM so far?Ken Brown  12:46  Alright, so my personal experience, before we even get to the patients, I would say that, but what I really liked is that my day begins. Every every morning, I start my day, I switch from the evening brain FM sleep, because I go to sleep with it. So my day begins was switching it to focus. I come down, I do my French press, which I say French press because Eric gifted me this French class, he's like, dude, quit, quit using drip coffee. It's like French press is the way to go. That's why boil the water, I have my brain FM on, I'm in the focus mode, I put that in focus, because I know within five minutes that my brain is ready to really do this, I'm put the coffee on. I do the French press fire up the computer. And then I start looking at my chart. So within 15 minutes, I am literally ready to roll. Because there's a lot of stuff I have to do. I then go to work to go work out, do whatever I do in my day. And then when I come home, then my wife and kids know this. And everybody has. We all use brain FM we all use it for the exact same things. My kids use it to study, I use it to get my day going, and I use it to put myself down. So I'm such a big believer. And then when we had our first what 30 People that we did at the endo centre, yeah. It's very easy to say, hey, trust me on this. I've experimented with it. All my employees use it. I use it, my family uses it. And what, just like you said being on the other side of this medical experience, even will today Nasreen was talking to these guys. And she said, even though I've scheduled 10s of 1000s of these when it was my turn to do it, I was nervous. And we gave her brain FM to do and she said to you guys, that immediately I calmed down. And now she's had several different procedures since then, and she doesn't care at all. She's like, I know, I'm gonna get in there. I know, I'm gonna wear this, I'm going to calm down. I know I'm gonna go to sleep, and I'm going to wake up and it's going to be refreshing and I'm going to feel good. So she can now tell my patients that she's like, Don't worry about a thing. Because one of the things that really and you and I talk about this all the time and we've had several podcasts, colon cancer is the second leading cause of cancer death in the United States. Colon cancer comes from colon polyps, we have a cure. And you saw that yesterday you are with us, we have a cure. So you and I have this urgency that if you're anxious about having a done, if you're scared, if you know somebody that had colon cancer, if you know somebody that complained about their colonoscopy, anything to get you into the clinic to get those polyps removed, because it saves your life. So now, when we have this opportunity to offer something, to make it a more, a more pleasant experience, not only more pleasant, because we're going to get into the site, we keep saying we're going to get into the science because that's coming the thing, that's the coolest thing. And I'm I want to thank both envision healthcare and and search, that they're being open minded about this. I'm really excited to get all my partners in G IA, looking at this, because I really kind of feel like this is a win win win win. We spoke with Dr. Ackerman, who's been co host, multiple, multiple times, when we spoke with Dr. Ackerman. He said it he's like, yeah, he's like, you just it's it's a no brainer, it's zero risk, potentially might help. And this is somebody who hasn't used it yet. When he realises he's like, Oh, when I said potential, I should have changed that word. He's like, it'll help. And that's what we're gonna end up trying to figure out. So what I love about it is it is just a way to say, look, get it done. Any worries you have, I'm gonna take one layer of that away, the second you show up. And that's what I'm excited about. Because ultimately, it's just a way, if you're worried about it, just make the appointment. We'll handle everything else. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  16:45  I think it's it's interesting, too, because a lot of people that at least from my experience, right, the first time you're going to something like this, you focus on these negative thoughts. So you're trying to push out of your head by using music, which we're used to. And again, we'll get on the science last time we hear that, but it's something that we can focus on something else. So instead of the fears or something else, we can focus on the music that we're listening to, and know that we're in really good hands at a centre that's willing to invest in technology, and try new things. For better patient experience.Ken Brown  17:20  I would like to just comment on that right there a centre that's willing to invest in technology. You're exactly right. Because when you've been meeting with people, they're saying, you know, we would like to be the Apple version of delivering health care like this.Unknown Speaker  17:33  Yeah. I mean, well, it's interesting, because if you look at Apple, right, why, why do people want to be Apple, it's because they do things more, they're not the first to do things always. But the first to do things extremely well and extremely thought through. So they take their time. They they're not, you know, first to market sometimes, but other times they are and they when they are they're the dominant factor. And I think it comes down to really finding solutions that truly do work that truly do make a difference. And that are long term solutions rather than the not right. And when we're talking to other people that are looking to be the apple of healthcare, it does take an investment, it does take a chance, like a leap of faith into trying something new. But I think that the the return on that are exponential in patient satisfaction and repeat visitors, people that are actually showing up for appointments because they're less scared because we have a solution for that. But but more with with all the other things that we're learning on as byproducts like efficiency and helping so that's the stuff that we're really exciting, because it's still focused on patient experience first, but there's so many other things that come from patient experience being better. Let meKen Brown  18:49  get your take on this real quick. Since you guys did see this from the other side. Yeah, you saw what happens with me and my partners with the staff with the camaraderie how everyone there really is there for one ultimate goal and that's to take care of people to help in any way we can, meaning that we can fix diseases. I just want your take on the how the patients felt and where they came through. And certainly when we started using the technology, because people do need to hear it's easy for a doctor to say oh go go get this done because you should but I love that you're like this is the first time I've seen this and it's it's it's beautiful to watch how you guys as a team. Yeah, everyone.Unknown Speaker  19:32  Well, I think it really comes shines through that that's true and everyone it has a great teamwork. I went from my perspective, it looks like everyone's there because they're like we have to be a players because we're saving people's lives. And that comes in from the RNs that we saw from the people in the lobby from from how you guys are showing up and and giving great bedside manner joking around everyone's having a good time. because you guys are in a great line of work where you're, again, saving people's lives, and even just talking to some of the the nurses there in our ends, you know, they're not just trying to make the experience where they're processing people, I thought that was really great. Where it's not like, oh, let's get this person with an IV and all these other things as fast as possible. It's like, no, like, Okay, you're sensitive, you've never gotten a needle or an IV or whatever. Let me figure out how to make it. So it's less obtrusive, or less intense. And I thought that was really great. And that's when why we're so excited. We're trying to say, hey, we're gonna add this brain FM thing into it. And they're like, that's gonna make our job even easier. And that was, that was really fun to say,Eric Rieger  20:43  I love the fact that that's what you said, because what I see brain FM being, I know that it's for the patient, but truly, the person who's going to see the benefit repeatedly is going to be the nurse who's already trying to be exactly what you said, to make sure that it's not a cattle call for the GI centre, or really any surgery centre. Yep, that wants to be appealing to the patient, but at the same time, allow their staff to all be really really good at not everybody is great at talking or, or joking appropriately with a patient and make them come down at ease. But if you could have something that was somewhat of an equaliser, yes, yes, that's been proven and tested, etc. That looks to me like something like brain FM could easily fit that mould really decreasing the burden on the staff that's checking.Unknown Speaker  21:31  Absolutely. And we were talking earlier about the fellows that we saw yesterday that had this great experience coming out and said that, you know, in previous cases, that he'd come out crying and distress and you think, not only the stress on him, but the stress on the nurses that would have to, you know, deal with them in that situation and calming down, and how that loads day after day on nurses that have to deal with that. Right. And, you know, to be able to relieve some of that burden is just absolutely enormous. And by the way, and what I saw at the centre yesterday was, you know, not only the nurses clearly care about people, but also just extremely efficient, and how quick the process was people with people going through, you know, and I had never been to a GI centre like that before, did not know what to expect. We were struck out. Yeah, how fast the whole thing was, it was amazing.Unknown Speaker  22:17  Yeah, I think investing, you know, in something like this is investing and also your employees, you know, they see that we were talking to believe it was Alexis. And she's like, this is ice 1000 People wake up a week. And I'm just today I can tell you that those people are waking up faster. And that's, that's something which, when, especially now trying to hire people in the in the world that we live in right now, you want to work at a company that is leading the charge and is something that you can feel really good about working there, because not only are they taking care of you, but they're taking care of everyone else. And I think that that really shone through yesterday as well.Eric Rieger  22:56  I think we're really lucky honestly can have G IA in this position to help us do this. Because it seems to me like this this lot. And we've talked about this on the show before but this company wants to be a an innovator, not just some big Gi Group. They want to help establish what should be some some good norms instead of some of the the throwaway old norms they want to be the ones that emerge southern think this is this is only going to pay a compliment to that.Ken Brown  23:23  Yeah. And I want to point something out when you're talking about the efficiency and all that, you know, let's what you did see is the efficiency in the preoperative and post operative, but you saw in the room that it was consistent, it was Eric and I focused. My technician, Mackenzie, we you guys saw that. It's just it's right there. It's the same process. And so by not worrying about the patient's concerns, or the concerns are alleviated when they come in, and I know that they're going to wake up in competent hands, I get to focus 100% on taking care of what I'm looking at with the endoscope. Eric gets to focus 100% on making sure that that patient is sedated and I work as a team and you saw how that is that the the flow of the room. And that's what's beautiful about the centre there. We're at that, although it's the efficiency sometimes people think oh, well, that that feels like you're moving too fast. No, the spot where we slow down is in that route.Unknown Speaker  24:22  Right? Yep. Yeah, we definitely saw that. Yeah, by efficiency. I just meant as a as somebody coming into the centre for procedure, I would be out of there in less than an hour, which was amazing to me. I always thought that outpatient procedures and you know, my take all afternoon I'd be sitting around all day, did not see any of that. It was really amazing.Eric Rieger  24:41  Yeah, it is a whole nother dynamic. Beyond that and why this is a good setup. But I do think it's a great setup because we huge exposure for something like brain FM so we can really prove this concept. So let's get into it. What in the world is brain FM? How does it work? He's rubbing his hands together.Unknown Speaker  25:00  Here we go, here we go. All right,Ken Brown  25:02  before you even get into this, let's at least can I, I love being around I love being the stupidest person in the room. And yesterday, I'm by far, I just felt like I'm just like playing catch up with Kevin all day long. It's just that you are wicked smart, and certainly have the credentials to prove it. And the way your passion towards this you the whole story. So before we even get into the science, oh, I was out last time.Eric Rieger  25:35  I was trying to follow the flow here.Ken Brown  25:38  How in the world? Did you become a PhD in this? Like, what is the path?Unknown Speaker  25:43  Sure, sure. Well, let's see. I was first interested, I think in the study of consciousness, I want to understand subjective experience. Why it is the case that we should experience anything at all rather than nothing? Why isn't it the case that humans are simply zombies with nothing on the inside, but you know, objects in the world, that kind of thing? Well, it turns out, it's hard to make a living as a consciousness research researcher. But it is possible to make a living as an attention researcher. And of course, attention and consciousness are very closely linked, at least in the sense that you tend to be conscious of what you're paying attention to. So I went into attention research in neuroscience. And within attention, I went into Auditory Research. Being a lifelong musician, just interested in sound in general, there's something magical about sound, right? It's ephemeral, you don't see it, it's in the air. And yet, it's so important to our daily lives, as you're experiencing right now. And so there's this magic about it. And I want wanted to understand, you know, the principles of how do you attend to sound in the world, right. And often, we're in these situations where we're trying to listen to the person talking to us in front of us, but there are other people talking around us, right? Or maybe we're on a busy street corner. Or say we're listening to a piece of music and just trying to hear the guitar part, but ignore the drums. And so there's this notion of a spotlight of attention in listening to things, right. And with the eyes, it's simple to understand how that happens, because you can move your eyeballs around, and you can point your eyes and things right? Well, we don't point our ears at things. We do that with our brain, right? And so if I'm sitting at the dinner table, and I want to listen to the person next to me, instead of the person in front of me, I don't have to turn my head to do that. I do something in my brain, right, that changes the spotlight of my attention so that I'm eavesdropping, right? And what is that process? How does that work? So I became very interested in that. I studied it in undergrad and then then went on to grad school, and did my dissertation on something called The Cocktail Party Problem, which is exactly the problem I've just described. And again, you know that the eyes being a two dimensional sheet, objects already arrived on the retina separated, right, but the eardrum is not a two dimensional sheet that your drum is a one dimensional receiver where you just get pressure over time, sounds mix in the air before they arrive at the ear. And it's the brains problem to unmix those sounds right? This is absolutely fascinating computational problem. So I study that for seven years. And in the process of doing that, I developed some methods to do online auditory experiments, which hadn't been done before. And long story short, you know, the, the old guard in auditory computational neuroscience would have said, Oh, I have have to bring people into my sound attenuated chamber, I have to make you wear my calibrated headphones. And therefore I can only run two subjects a day. Well, it turns out that if you do things online and use the right methods, you can collect 100 participants that day. And the date ends up being roughly the same, you know, with a few more participants, you can even out the noise that's otherwise introduced, but slightly messy online methods. It turns out, it's a massively more efficient way to run experiments. And one day, by chance in the supermarket, I ran into an old colleague of mine, so excited about these methods, I went on and on and on. And she had just hooked up with brain FM. And in that she was a consultant for them. Wow, bright brain FM, this, you know, wonderful company, they're doing functional music. And they really need somebody to, as you know, as a team of one to run lots of lots of experiments, behavioural experiments to figure out, you know, what is the ideal background music for doing, you know, XYZ. And I jumped on that immediately. I started consulting for brain FM, even before I defend what yours is,Eric Rieger  29:27  do you think, Oh, thisUnknown Speaker  29:28  would have been 20? Nothing? No, no, no, no. 1819 2018 Oh, yeah. Yeah, bless. Yeah. Say I defended in 2018. Yep. And so six months before that, I was I was consulting with Brian FM and, and I remember the day that I defended my dissertation, I signed the employment contract with Brian. Nice, very, very happy day.Unknown Speaker  29:49  snagging right out.Ken Brown  29:51  any room at all? And theUnknown Speaker  29:53  rest? Yeah, the rest is history. And it was gone to do some really incredible things. We got a grant from the National Science Foundation to look into music for ADHD. Out of that has come a this beautiful piece of work that has behavioural experiments has fMRI brain scanning and has EEG, and another method of looking at brain physiology. And we combined all of these methods to essentially show how our focus music works. Yeah, the results are really great. The papers currently in peer review at nature. We're really excited to see how that goes. Yeah, so that's currently currently where we're at with brain FM. Super excited to explain how it actually works. But maybe, since Yeah.Eric Rieger  30:41  We have to round out and ask Dan. Dan, you mentioned maybe on this podcast, my memory is already fuzzy, but you didn't found brain FM but you hopped on it. The moment that you saw there was an opening so why don't you to go over how you got here?Unknown Speaker  30:56  Yeah, so I have a very interesting story that's different than Kevin so I, I started making websites when I was 13. I loved it. I thought it was like a nother kind of video game that you could play. And I am a sucker blackbelt. So I made martial arts websites made the first one for my school, and they went from getting 30 leads to 130 leadsKen Brown  31:19  sorry, somebody that's done martial arts his whole life. What second degree and what? Mixed martialUnknown Speaker  31:23  arts so it concentrated in jujitsu? Krav Maga, Muay Thai and Cuba.Eric Rieger  31:28  Sweet. Yeah, Lucinda Drew.Unknown Speaker  31:32  So yeah, so I did that for a while. And I went to make martial arts websites because I made it for one person. He's like, can you make it for all my friends. And before I was out of high school, I had 20 clients were dropped out of high school, ended up having, you know, 40 clients at one time. And so my first business when I was 20, travel the world and came back and I said, I wonder if I can do this again. Maybe I got lucky. And I started working with businesses and bringing them online and building lead generation businesses and started doing more and more complicated things like POS systems, I started doing digital advertising became digital director of a company at a like 24 years old. And from the outside, I made it you know, I was making more money than my parents, you know, like travelling around the United States selling million dollar contracts. But I didn't I hit this point where I didn't feel like I was as really like helping people like I did when I was teaching martial arts. Because we used to use martial arts as a vehicle to take a kid from being not really confident or sure of himself into a leader into being someone and I'm I'm an effective that I was really shy, I got bullied on mercilessly in fifth grade. I was a little chubby and, and martial art transformed me. So even though I made success, you know, financially, I didn't really find success success personally. And, you know, I had this life or death situation, which is a whole nother podcast to talk through. And I realised I need to quit my job, quit my job, I came across brain FM, like three months later, when I was looking for what I should do, I knew I wanted to work in tech, again, to help people. I remember using it the first time and being blown away. Because I used to work from 10pm to 4am, because that's where I could find my flow state, right. Like, I could find that magic zone where I could just jump into things. And I remember taking my headphones off the first time and being like, this is too good to be true. This is no way this is working. I was super speculative. And I was I was this is just music, right. And I remember trying I save 24 hours and then used it still worked. My diet still worked. And it was it was perfect. Because it was something that allowed me to switch into focus whenever I wanted to. And from then I was like this is going to be something that changed the world. I called the people that created the company like 12 times, I actually started working for free and absurdly the tech team becoming CEO and then purchasing the company. So wild ride, never never intended to do that. But along the way, you know, obviously Kevin, Kevin and I are together as well as a lot of other great team members. We're really trying to use brain FM as a tool to help people be their best self, their best best version of themselves. And while we are doing that consumer you know now we get to do it in the medical space and help people have best health that they can have. And that's something that's we're really excited about isEric Rieger  34:40  awesome stories it y'all linked by passion, which I find really endearing for the process.Ken Brown  34:46  So we're doing so at at atrantil and certainly with the practice and everything we really like to discuss what is the what is our collective why what is my why? What is the the companies Why if we're all on the same way, what I'm just hearing, I'm just writing little notes here. I'm like, wow, both you guys driven by the Why have you have this knowledge, Kevin, that you are like, wow, this could really, it's so I come from this music background and I understand this and I can do this. And Dan, you have this incredible like, this is where I came from I, I need to I'm it's not a money thing. It's a The why is how do we get everyone else on the same page. And we hooked up because we're in that car that one day, we were being shuttled to the to the meeting we're going to and the why was wow, that sounds like that could really help my patients and you're like, the more I think about I think I can and I like when the y's align. And you can move that forward and get more people doing it. The beauty of brain FM is that you can teach people that they are capable of their Why suddenly they can unleash that. So when I meet with so many people that have irritable bowel syndrome, and which is associated or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, SIBO, Crohn's, ulcerative colitis where they're kind of consumed by negative thoughts and anxiety. And there's that brain gut access, that Kevin's nodding, because he's like, that's definitely the cool part. So I want to affect the brain by protecting the gut. Kevin knows so much about the brain that we realised we're kind of meeting there were so I think that this collective why if we could expand this circle of why into okay, we now know that am Serge and envision is getting the why they're like, yes, we can do this. And now we can get the why going with the doctors going, we all can have this collective why, which is one thing, how do we get more people to have a better experience in healthcare and ultimately, collectively improve the health of everyone? You guys are doing it to the brain? I'm trying to do it through the budget.Unknown Speaker  36:58  So yeah, well, that's.Ken Brown  37:03  So I love hearing that story. I didn't know that. I mean, we've talked to me for hours and hours. I did not know that's a really, really cool story.Eric Rieger  37:10  Just a brief primer on, on how we all linked up there, because you just barely hinted at it is we you and I had met in snow skiing together, you have snowboarding on snow skiing, had a great time. And then we decided to ride together for the summer meeting. Yep, to the same group and share a shuttle. No pretence at all, we just got hopped into conversation about how are things going. And it probably took about 10 miles or a 70 mile ride. Before we determine, wait a second, there's something there is something here. Yeah. And so anyway, that's that's just my short version on how I showed up here today.Ken Brown  37:49  I love it a lot.Unknown Speaker  37:50  So I guess without further ado, should we talk about what's here and talk about some of the science?Unknown Speaker  37:54  Yeah. Finally, all right,Ken Brown  37:57  now we're gonna get into some cool stuff. All right, this is if you are, if you're listening to this, get a pen and a piece paper out because this is cool, cool, cool stuff. This is not just listening to music, I love that.Unknown Speaker  38:09  And so the trick with this is always to make it you know, straightforward and understandable. And hopefully, you won't need pen and paper to understand what's going on here. So simply put, a lot of neural activity activity is rhythmic, right? These rhythms, slow, fast, everything in between. And the rhythms in the brain support, perception, cognition, and action, essentially, those three things that the brain does. One that you may have heard of, are delta waves when you're sleeping, that's probably you know, the most common widely known one. But their rhythms are all sorts of different speeds that support pretty much you know, anything that you're doing in your daily life. And the idea behind brain FM, is, it's music that's specifically engineered to drive these rhythms in the brain called neural oscillations, or if you'd like brainwaves to drive your brainwaves in targeted ways, right? To support whatever you need to be doing, right. And so for example, we know what brainwaves in the focus brain look like? They're at particular speeds in particular regions. And so what we do is we say, okay, let's use the odd, let's use the auditory system as input for neuromodulation. Right? And so how can we use an auditory input to drive your brainwaves into the state that we know supports focus, right? And so we figured out that out and that's what we have our paper that's coming out shortly on, but because the principle is using the auditory system as a neuromodulator it's not just a one trick pony, right? So we can support focus, we can support relaxation, we can support sleep, and now we're discovering that we can, you know, support people going under and waking up from anaesthesia as well. So it's really it's a delivery method for you know, driving your brain into whatever state you need for, for what you need to be doing. Right. And so again, this is, you know, it's what we call functional music, which we'd like to make the distinction between that and, you know, what you might call art music with a capital A. Right? Which is that, you know, in modern times with artists and albums, there's a conception of music as something that primarily exists for self expression and for beauty and to connect to your audience. Well, things haven't always been that way, right. And if you go back 500 years, 1000 years, it's not about artists and albums. It's about music that is designed to do things for people, for example, you know, a lullaby a lullaby is a perfect example of ancient functional music. Because the point of a lullaby is not to sound beautiful. Maybe you also want that, but the point of a lullaby is to put a baby to sleep. Right? And similarly, you know, you have music that was used to help people do physical labour, right? Or music to march to if you're in an army, right? And the point of marching music is not to sound beautiful is to make people walk in lockstep, right. Another good example is dance music, right? And dance is a perfect example of this principle of rhythms in the brain and rhythms in the world. Which by the way, is called entrainment. That's a concept that you may be familiar with, which is, rhythms in the brain reflect rhythms in the world?Ken Brown  41:22  Yeah, what threw me off a little bit. Sorry.Eric Rieger  41:24  Just to catch up on everyone on on the vocabulary. I want to hear your just brief explanation of neuromodulation Sure, I've entrainment is another might have been one more, but just just to keep everybody on the same? Sure.Unknown Speaker  41:35  Sure. Sure. So neuromodulation is just a broader term that refers to, you know, inducing a change in the brain through an external stimulus, right. It could be a magnetic field, it could be electrical currents. But it could also be sensory stimulation, right? In this case, auditory system. And treatment is a form of neuromodulation, where you're providing a rhythmic input to induce a rhythmic response from the brain, right. And so you have this oscillating system, neural circuits of the resonance frequencies. And so you're basically pushing on this neural circuit in a rhythmic way and a response in a rhythmic, rhythmic way. And because the brain has this property of training to things around it, then you can drive the rhythms in the brain to help support what you need to do. Okay, which is, yeah, we're where I started. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward and simple example of that coming back around as dance, right? That's one that everybody understands. You hear the rhythm and the music and your body moves to that. And that's entrainment and what's called the auditory motor system, right? And also, by the way, if you want to know, how quickly does it take for brain FM to kick in, which is a question that we always get asked, I asked back, Well, how long does it take between when you hear dance music? And when you want to dance? Yeah, right? The answer is, it depends on how closely you're attending to the music, right? It depends on how intense the beats are. And all that's true for brain FM as well. But you know, the real answers, maybe 30 seconds, maybe a minute, if you're not really listening, if you're in the right mood, maybe 10 seconds, right. But that's the sort of timescale and ballpark timescale when you're talking about rhythmic entrainment in the auditory system. And interesting thing about dance music, right, is that the functional properties of dance music are completely dissociated from the aesthetic properties of dance music, right? Yes, you can listen to music that sounds terrible, and still makes you want to dance. And that's a perfect demonstration of functional versus art in music, right? And so what we've done in brain FM is we've said, okay, you know, we know entrainment is the thing, but instead of, you know, relatively slow rates that you will bounce to, you know, you can actually drive the brand very fast rates that support focus, or very slow rates that support sleep. And that's anything in between, and everything in between. And that's the principle.Unknown Speaker  43:47  What's really cool about it as well is in addition to all the things that Kevin is saying, we're also able to do it through sound, where it's something that is not obtrusive, or it stops you from what you're doing. So for example, in focusing, it's it's not something that you have to watch, or like meditation, you meditate, and then you focus this is as long as you are doing the activity. So what's nice about it is usually our work is visual, to why adding music to it, it's allowing us to focus better and work like we normally would. And the same thing in hospitals, right? And in the clinic that we were just at is this is music that you put on top. And it doesn't take away from the experience. People can still you know, hear what you're saying instructions, it's not something that they're putting over their eyes. One interesting thing about music compared or sound compared to light is what like one out of 18,000 people are epileptic,Unknown Speaker  44:47  right, the light can occasionally induce epilepsy, but music will not. Yeah, sound induced epilepsy is not only extremely rare, but it's also not due to rhythms. It's triggered by you know, things that have to do with your past. So the sound of a car crash or something might trigger trigger epilepsy for sound. Whereas with light, it's a very automatic thing where once you hurt once you hit a certain frequency of light flashing, you know, if you have that kind of photosensitive photosensitive epilepsy, it'll set you off. Not so with music, so it's extremely safe. Yeah, so,Unknown Speaker  45:19  so sound is really this perfect medium to apply to things that we're already doing, whether it's relaxing, sleeping, or going through surgery, but it's also something that's incredibly safe. Because we have all of these things that we've evolved to have that protect us from sound, the worst thing that can happen is maybe it's too loud. That that's, you know, very, that's, that's actually not even probably going to happen because of the way commercial headphones are made. You know, it's a very safe thing to add to your regimen.Eric Rieger  45:51  So what do y'all call this particular technology? And then how did you arrive at this technology? Because I know it's not the first iteration of utilising sound, you've even said, you know, it's been years ago from the lullaby to now. So what's this call that we're bringing in uses? Sure.Unknown Speaker  46:06  Well, I think we like to call it brain FM. It's it Yeah, it is. It is unique. We have, you know, patents on the process that we use to make this music because it is so unique, you know. Let's see. There are other methods of training the brain for example, you could flashlights that people like we were just saying, but you can't get your work done. If you're having lights flashed at you. Right? There's there's a conflict there. So Sam is really a great way to do it. Yeah, I don't think we have a really good name for the technologyKen Brown  46:40  there. Let me ask you a quick question. So I'm somebody that I own a different centre someplace else, like, oh, yeah, I heard this podcast you know what we're gonna do? I love Coldplay, so I'm gonna make everybody listen to Coldplay as they get in there. Because Coldplay does it for me. Explain the difference?Unknown Speaker  46:55  Yeah. So before we do that, I think so obviously, brain FM as a company, you know, we do have patents like, like Kevin saying, I would just say that every time we the reason why we call it brain FM is because every time we learn more, we actually grow and build and change brain FM. So it's an ever evolving thing, where brain FM was five years ago, and where it is now. And our understanding of the brain and even the music we produce different. As far as this of what we're making for health care. This is really brain health, that we're really focusing on as a pursuit, and it is different than our consumer product. And Kevin can share some of the things that we arrive to it. And it actually it's funny, because Coldplay was one of the control groups that we did that dimension. So when you when we first started talking about, hey, I think this is something that we could do. I think I share that story of my girlfriend. We were saying, I remember telling Kevin, I was like, Hey, can we make relax? We just play a relaxed music. And he's like, Yeah, we could but let me check to check. And he started finding all this free search, which I'll just like Kevin say, but it was just incredibly exciting. Because from that start, we were able to eventually build a product that blew the wall to off everything that existed so far, we can see that with science.Eric Rieger  48:14  So that's that's kind of where I was going. So I when you and I very first got engaged with this topic and what brain FM was. I think one of the first questions that can ask is how does this compare to some someone utilising binaural? Beats? Yeah, and then that that's really kind of what I was getting at is that that is more or less in, correct me if I'm wrong, but static in where it is. And just as you described, y'all have been evolving and finding new applications for brain FM proprietary applications. Whereas by neuro is a great discovery. However, y'all are evolutionsUnknown Speaker  48:55  on Yeah, I'll start and then I'll give it to Kevin. So you know, this, like we were saying before, it has been tried to be done forever. Sure, functional music lullabies those existed for 1000s of years. And then a lot of people are familiar with music that they they play to elicit a response. So when you go to spas, you hear the waterfalls and the relaxing, you know that because you're trying to have a relaxing experience. What we've done is we've taken that to another level. Now, to your point, binaural beats isochronic tones, those have existed for a long time. And that's when for anyone that hasn't heard about this is when you play one frequency in one year and one frequency in the other. And they basically combined in your brainstem, right? And that creates entrainment in your brain. But it's not as precise as what we're looking for. It still has effects but they're diminishing or they're not. They're not as rigorous as we'd like to know that this is 100% effective. So when we were creating brain FM, it was well this is something that's there but how How could we make it more effective? And Kevin, I'll share in a second, but the difference between is instead of modulating frequencies, we actually modulate amplitude. Mm hmm. Kevin, you want to explain that?Unknown Speaker  50:12  Sure. Yeah. So I can talk about by now binaural beats specifically. And Dan is absolutely right, you have two different frequencies coming in the two different ears. The difference between those frequencies creates beating in the brainstem, essentially, that if you were to take two sine waves of slightly different frequencies, sum them together, what you would end up with is amplitude modulation, basically interference between two very similar assignments. So for example, I've 400 hertz and one year 410 Hertz in the other ear, in the brainstem, I'm creating a 10 hertz amplitude modulation, okay, right dude with some of those things. Now, the issue? Well, there's several issues. One is that the brainstem was limited and how strongly it can pass those modulations up to the cortex, right, the cortex has a high level of the brain where all the interesting stuff happens. So even if you have, you know, it doesn't matter how loud those frequencies are in your two years, the the level of modulation created in the brainstem will cap out at a certain amount. But if you put that modulation directly in in each ear, instead of relying on the brainstem to produce it, you can get a much stronger response from cortex, right. So in terms of the strength of entrainment, and binaural beats is also about entrainment right? It's about producing this modulation, that then in trance cortex, the strength of that entrainment is much less than binaural beats because it is produced, because modulations produced by the brain instead of existing in the sound signal, right? A practical issue is that with binaural beats, you're limited to listening to tones. So when you listen to binaural beats, what you're hearing is, and one year and and the other year, I love that song. Exactly. No one loves that. Right? And so what we've done in brain FM is we found a way to insert modulation into music, right? So that it's enjoyable, and you get those effects as well. Right?Unknown Speaker  52:04  Yeah. And we can we can send over a demo if you want to stitch it to the end of this podcast so people can see here. Well,Eric Rieger  52:11  that's honestly one of the coolest parts is is the fact that y'all can y'all can put the effective portion of brain FM inside the genre that anybody wishes to listen to. That's right. It's one of the coolest things because I was even asking you when you were first describing Oh, is it? Is it country to go to sleep? And is it hard rock to wake up? And he said, actually, it's whatever you want, for anything that you want. And I thought that was the coolest explanation, because you're not limited to some type of genre, just simply because that's how you need to feel.Unknown Speaker  52:42  Absolutely. And to be clear, you know, most music is rhythmic, and therefore most music has amplitude modulation in it. But it's not targeted in the way that brain FM is, right. It's it's a byproduct of the artists doing their thing. So if you're listening to Coldplay, right, they have a mix of whole notes and half notes and whatever, you know, musical things are going on and do that they have amplitude modulation at all sorts of different frequencies happening, right? If they're at, you know, 120 BPM and they're playing whole notes, then they have, you know, one hertz or whatever it is maybe two hertz. But with brain FM, what we're saying is, okay, we know the frequency that we want the brain to hit. So we're going to directly insert amplitude modulations, at exactly 16 hertz, or, you know, whatever it happens to be, and make those the dominant modulation frequency in the brain. Whereas with music, you have all these overlapping frequencies. And you know, the, the target is to make it sound beautiful not to drive the brain into a certain solitary state. Right. And so, by the way, with Coldplay, we did this very large online study, we had 200 participants in this, we gave them a standard questionnaire called the profile of mental states looking at, among other things, tension and relaxation. And we had Coldplay as a control. We had brain FM, we also had another piece of music very fascinating. That was made by music therapists and was hailed as the most relaxing song in the world, it was used in multiple studies, it was shown to reduce blood pressure to similar extent as benzodiazepines to for people undergoing surgery. And we found that we beat that would be called Les by a mile. And we beat that song as well. You know, error bars were small relative to the difference between them highly, statistically significant. So that was very cool to see.Ken Brown  54:21  So the last part again, one more time, because it's based on science. And what I said Coldplay, kind of jokingly because I like Coldplay, and that didn't realise that they actually studied that. And so this was compared to a scientifically or supposedly scientifically derived music considered the most relaxing music in the world and I guess you paid yourself you like you went you just went immediately to the deepest water you could findUnknown Speaker  54:46  that's exactly right. We we did the hardest tests, we always try to give ourselves the hardest test. By the way, it's a track called weightless by Marconi union is extremely Google will you'll find it was CNR CNN article written about it, and we said okay, if this is the king of the hill, We're going to beat it. And we did. Wow.Unknown Speaker  55:03  Yeah. And we do that from some of the things that Kevin was talking about earlier, which were there's online experiments. So think about it, you know, we can actually test 1000s of people, and we know all the knobs to play. So not only are we doing these neural phase locking these amplitude modulation, we actually do other things in music, like 3d sound. So when you're in some of our relaxing music, we actually shift some of the sound from right here to left here, almost like you're in a hammock, sometimes, we have different BPM rates, different kinds of genres specific to make you feel more relaxed. And as we learn more about you, and what you prefer, we can actually have even a better response. And, you know, getting back on track on some of the stuff that we're doing with you guys, and hopefully more people in the future. We started looking at this from a science based procedure and saying, Okay, this is what the world says is the most relaxing music in the world. Let's beat it. And I believe it would be like, like 50 50% or 5%. It's a pretty pretty demonstrable, especially compared to,Ken Brown  56:08  just to clarify that was like, first iteration, you guys continually improve what you're goingUnknown Speaker  56:13  Oh, yep, yep. And now it just comes down to so we have improved sense and now it's comes down to doing clinical trials with real people to say okay, we've improved as much as we can outside the environment. Now let's make it better in the environment and continually testEric Rieger  56:29  one or something else that that you mentioned, Kevin, that I feel like is, is maybe even just glossed over as we're talking about comparing it to Coldplay or or waitlist, is you said benzodiazepines also. So now you're talking about comparing sound to a drug and a bit of die as a pain, of course, is what we use, if you're curious, that's verse said, that's out of and that's value. These are things that people religiously take for, as an analytic try to stop that. So the fact that you didn't just go to the deepest water and sound, you went straight to the heart of what we use and anaesthesia, chemically to allow people to alleviate their anxiety, and that's quite measurable.Ken Brown  57:11  Alright, so let's bring that up because you said religiously tape. But the reality is, is that benzodiazepines have an extremely addictive potential as well. Correct. So people that suffer from anxiety and using those medications to try and get through that there are tremendous rich,Eric Rieger  57:27  so in before we hit on that just just the array of benzo and benzo like drugs. I mean, it doesn't just stop with those three, you're talking also about Xanax, Ambien, senesce, those, all of those fit at some level to be maximum GABA agonist. So when you say that what you have by comparison is something that's effective. We don't know this today. But potentially y'all could be unlocking a way for people not to be dependent upon taking these drugs to to get better sleep to alleviate their anxiety, etc. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  58:02  I mean, this is definitely a road that we see could be possible. Obviously, there's a lot of work to be involved involved right now. But we do have testimonials of users that, like reach out and they say, Hey, I haven't slept well in 10 years. And I tried brain FM a lot last night, and I've been on Ambien, I've been on Lunesta, and I slept better than any drug I've ever taken. Right. And now we're I'm not here saying that this is a cure or treatment. Yeah. But this could be an alternative approach where maybe you can take less trucks, or you can do this before you try drugs, or, you know, whatever. And, you know, I think that gives someone more control and freedom.Ken Brown  58:41  As someone who tries to incorporate different lifestyle modulations to improve my life to try and incorporate these different things with my patients. When we talk about let's talk about benzodiazepine addiction, we can get into the fact that benzos works similar to alcohol. So I work with a lot of patients with liver disease, and we try and get over that. Well, the beauty that I really like about this is that just like you said, when you meditate to try and focus, you are meditating, and then you're going to try and have focus. What I love is I'll actually stack this kind of stuff. I will and Eric's a big sauna fan also. And so I will put my brain FM on I will go into the sauna, and I will do breathing exercises all at once. And I love is absolutely you know, it's I'm, I feel like I'm focusing on my breath. I know that I'm getting that neuromodulation that's going to happen anyways and start stimulating that area to try and do that. And I'm getting the benefits of the sauna that's there. And so just we're not saying that one thing does something or other but when we start on my lifestyle modifications, this is like one of the easiest as the other stuff you need a sauna like when I tell my patients I'm like you know sauna therapy is good. I don't have access to it. Okay, do you let's do some breathing and some meditation. I can't I'm super busy and whatever. Okay, how about just putting some headphones on? Yeah. How about that? Let's start with that and see what happens.Unknown Speaker  1:00:11  And it's something that, you know, one of the reasons why I was so attracted to the company in the beginning was, it isn't just for, you know, people that it is for everyone. It doesn't actually matter if you speak English or not, none of our none of our music is created with lyrics. And one thing I think we glossed over is actually we have in house composers that are makeup, that's gonna be my next question. Yeah. So we have people that have toured with some of the greatest bands ever, which, you know, I don't know if we can disclose, but some really great talented musicians. And they're, they're taking this in making this from a functional approach, where it's music that sounds great, it's music that has all the scientific effects, and all the knobs turned the right way to have the effect we're trying to, you know, get for the user. But it's also not necessarily music, that is going to be your favourite song. Because that's not the goal, right? The goal is to make an effect that can be measured in your brain, and is not just sometimes it's every time, whether you're trying to relax, you're trying to sleep, you're trying to focus,Unknown Speaker  1:01:13  and it's music that will sit comfortably in the background. So for example, with our focus music in particular, you know, a lot of people don't realise that. If I'm a music producer, normally, my job is to grab your attention. My job is to make music punchy, and make you sit up and distract you from whatever you're trying to do. Right. And so we've we've flipped the script on that, and we say, Okay, well, we know the tricks they're using to make music punchy and grabbing your attention. Let's do the opposite. You know, what can we do to make music still sound good and be entertaining, but help you work by not distracting you? Right? And because we have a different target than everybody else who ended up making different music than everybody else.Eric Rieger  1:01:50  So figuring this out, you some people say they're an audio file, I would say that You are the supreme audio file doctor. Yeah, no, no. But not not only that, you also play guitar. And we talked about this briefly yesterday. So when you have when when y'all team up with your composers to come in house to build stuff? Just just how does it happen? How do y'all know what sounds good for it to match together? And you're like that that'll work here? I mean,Unknown Speaker  1:02:19  absolutely well about it. They're much better musicians than I am. For starters, my job is to annoy the heck out of our musicians by saying, that's a bit too good. That's, uh, you know, that that melody that you made, it's too catchy, you know, oh, that that percussive part as normal music, it would be totally awesome. Yeah, right now, you know, we're not trying to grab people's attention. And so just sort of to remind them of the science and the target and that kind of thing. But,Eric Rieger  1:02:47  so what was the session? Like for them? Are they there for like, four hours, and they're cutting one track? Or?Unknown Speaker  1:02:52  Oh, they make enormous quantities of music. They're so good at it. In terms of a session, so they work in Ableton, you know, okay, yeah. So they have DAWs we have proprietary software that plugs into Ableton that helps us layer the science on top of music, essentially, that's what what's happening. And the principles of composition they use from the ground up, are meant meant to support whatever mental state right? So, you

Acting Chancellor Daisy Gonzales, PhD, is joined by Kenneth Brown, President of the El Camino College Board of Trustees and President of the Community College League of California's Trustee Board and Byron Clift Breland PhD, Chancellor of San Jose-Evergreen CCD and President of the League's CEO Board for a discussion about how the Chancellor's Office and the League together play a key role in preparing students for the future, fueling California's economic recovery and advancing the Vision for Success. Read the Transcript: https://www.cccco.edu/-/media/CCCCO-Website/Podcasts/Transcripts/ccc21045transcript-a11y.pdf

Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. I hope that you're having a great day soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's time for episode number 61. And today's episode, I'm just going to ask everyone, no matter what part of the spectrum that you come from, come with an open mind on this episode. This is a fantastic episode very, very informative. Our guest today is Michael ruark. He is the lead strategist for only one of three licenced medical cannabis companies. Good blend medical cannabis. And yes, that is THC, which is utilised as a medicine for specially designated criterion. And they update it every single year. So September 1, which we just recorded this right before September 1, there's actually a whole new list of medical conditions, which are now legal to be treated by medical professionals. And believe it or not, they have a network of already over 500 positions throughout the state of Texas since 2018, which are licenced and actively dispense medical cannabis. And good blend is one of those companies. So Michael joins the show today to really answer some fantastic questions. And Michael's an amazing person in his own right. He's, he's got a an electrical engineering degree from Stanford as well as his master's he served in the US Air Force, he led a team at National Security Agency, the NSA. I mean, this man is no slouch, he came to this profession to this company. By no mistake whatsoever. He simply doesn't want to just do good. He wants to do great by the citizens of Texas and simply help people live a better life. There's a better way for some of the elements out there and he has a very, very strong passion for helping out our veterans and the Veterans Administration. So I don't want to give away everything in the episode because Miko does a much better job of articulating all of that stuff. So let's get to our sponsors, of course are trying to they've been a sponsor for every show and I imagine they always will be because they were created by my co host, Dr. kins brown are trying to get your daily poly phenol is love my tummy, calm, stop the bloating, stop the abdominal discomfort. If you're an athlete, you need paly finos every single day. And I don't know maybe some of us are worried about a virus and I don't know maybe you're interested in things that function is natural zinc on fours. Well, polyphenols are natural zinc ion fours. So anyhow, without saying too much draw your own conclusions at what this awesome natural product can do for you, but go to love my tummy.com load up on your daily polyphenols today. Love My tiny.com artron deal. And of course, KB m d health.com. 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Or you can't have some awesome tasting bread or some trail mix that you can trust pie crust, check out unrefined bakery, they My wife has celiac disease This is her go to. And it's just incredible food you'd have no idea that they were all specialty foods to fit specialty diets, unrefined bakery go to unrefined bakery.com you can get 20% off of your entire first order. By using code gut check again your entire first order. So low up on bread load up on pie crust load up on cupcakes, are you selling cupcakes are just incredible. No levy cake, I mean like cake and they got great cakes or cupcakes there and I love the unrefined bakery.com check it out. Use code gut check 20% off your entire first order. Okay. Love those sponsors. they've kept the show going But what really keeps the show going just as much is awesome guests like Michael ruark coming up next episode number 61though KB MD health and gut check project fans, I hope you have a great day. It is now time for episode number 61. I am joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And we got a special guest today, Mr. Marcus ruark. Ken, why don't you go ahead and fill us in.5:38  So it's gonna be super exciting show. Today we have Marcus ruark. And this is something that is very, very important. It's important for my patients. It's important for anybody that deals with all kinds of diseases, but I'm thrilled to have him here. thrilled to be here. Marcus, thank you so much for coming in Marcus ruark is president of good blend, Texas, which is headquartered in Austin, Texas, and proudly sells cannabis products that are cultivated and produced right here in the Lone Star State as one of only three state licenced medical dispensaries. Now, Marcus, I saw your bio, this is super cool, you have a very interesting background. And prior to joining good blend, you received your electrical engineering degree from Stanford. Then you received your master's degree at Stanford and I keep saying Stanford because Eric and I both have kids which are applying for college. And when I see Stanford, that's the sort of crown jewel that most parents want their kids to go to. And they like tennis players. And they like you received your master's degree at Stanford in management, science and engineering. Following this, you went on to serve as a captain in the US Air Force, where you lead your team in the National Security Agency, followed by advanced Systems Division of us Space Command. That's crazy. Following that, your bio discusses a lot of other really fascinating things that I want to get into. But before we get into that, I want to talk a little bit about what's not in your bio. Okay, tell me about you. Family. What's going on with Marcus?7:21  Sure. Well, we just had a big week in the ruag family took my daughter to college, which you just alluded to a little bit ago there. She's going to San Diego State nice, pretty excited about that. But also, you know, it's a little bit anxious and first first kid out of the nest, so to speak. So that's exciting. And then my son started up eighth grade first time back in school since spring of his sixth grade year, right when everybody went home for COVID. So very exciting there too, and he's trying out for football. So fingers crossed,7:49  right on, right on.7:51  That's a plate right there. And so San Diego State that's Trojans, she's a Trojan Aztecs, Aztecs. Yeah. I'm learning too. Nice. All right, that's a Southern California Nevermind. Sorry.8:02  So the family, your background, there was this huge section in your bio, we're very clearly you have an entrepreneurial spirit, you have leadership skills, you are willing to push the boundaries a bit and try some different positions technologies. Can you give me what led you up to this?8:24  Absolutely. So after I got out of the Air Force, I was very interested in joining the the high tech scene that was happening in San Francisco. So did that ride around? Actually not the best time for that because it was right around the bubble here is where there was a big crash back in 2000. But that being said, really got interested in bringing new products to new markets, and bringing new benefits to customers who maybe hadn't seen those benefits before in the past. So very exciting, did a lot of startups founded a lot of companies. And then at some point I crossed over into healthcare so a startup in the healthcare space and it hit me then that as rewarding as I thought it had been doing startups in high tech to do in healthcare it was even more special because not only are you starting a company but you're actually helping people right we were helping doctors treat patients better we were helping patients have better outcomes in their in their hospitals stays. So it was really rewarding. And at some point after that, I was able to join a company called Fluence which you probably saw on the on the resume, but they were in the LED lighting space. And I started there to help out with the customer experience for their customer base. And I learned that the customer base was primarily in three segments, customers who are coming to a growing produce companies who are growing flowers, and then cannabis companies and can imagine which one of the segments was probably the fastest growing it was their cannabis customers and so that was entirely new to me the cannabis world and I as you guys have I dove deeply into it the endocannabinoid system the the benefits of cannabis and learned about cultivation and Creation of products and distribution, all that kind of good stuff. And right around, I guess was the spring of 2017, Texas announced the grant of the first couple of licences for the Texas compassionate use programme. And when, you know, I reached out to one of the companies and say, I think I can help you guys here in Texas. And so I came on board as president of goodwill in Texas at that time.10:21  And that's fascinating. So I mean, obviously, it was just natural as a natural progression. You ended up seeing that there was a need, it was certainly new to you. Sounds like maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but you're inspired by things that you don't know enough about, but seem intriguing could help people I'm still learning10:35  and so much to learn in this space still, but but it ends up it's a great match for all that because it's it's technology, right? It's, it's horticulture, and it's it's helping people within today, right was what was what we're here to do is help Texans.10:48  So it's an electrical engineer, I get that you were drawn to the LED space, but then getting drawn to healthcare and now more of a I mean, what would you describe your position at good blood?10:59  I, I'm leading the entire Texas team here. Everything from cultivation, to product development, formulation, packaging, distribution, working with physicians, working with patient support groups, so pretty much everything setting strategy product roadmap and trying to build a great culture for the team here.11:18  So one of the things that we talk about in our company is the why the why the underlying reason why all this is happening, because if you don't have a solid, why then what you're describing, nobody else really will believe in that. But it sounds like you found your y even if you haven't defined your y statement, you found the Y11:37  Well, I can define it for you. It's we are empowering Texans to find their well being right through natural medicines that our patients say work. And it's, it's, it's so rewarding. Now, we have a we have a group of we have a role the company called mobile wellness coordinators, and these are the folks it's probably one of the hardest jobs at the company, you have to be knowledgeable about cannabis, the endocannabinoid system, talking to patients, so you have to be bit of an extrovert, right? It'll talk to patients. But you also have to drive across the large distances of Texas to deliver medicine to patients doors. So you also have to be a bit of an introvert there to be happy listening to podcasts while you're driving. They have the best job in the company, though, because when they're making that second delivery to a patient, they get to hear how that patient did they could hear the patient testimonials, and they're incredibly rewarding. And it's I feel really almost envious that they get to do this. But they're they're so nice to come back and share their stories with us after they've had these amazing conversations.12:38  So where are you with the company before they ended up having their first dispense of their certified? Yeah,12:45  I've been with the company since 2017. We served our first patients in early 2019. Okay, and what12:52  was it like? What was the anticipation like to get your first patient that had been referred in and and bringing those physicians on board to do that here in a state that didn't do it before?13:01  Well, I think predict my answer was huge and hugely rewarding. Like I said, it's this, the testimonies we hear are fantastic. And as we've come to market with even a wider set of products, different ratios of CBD to THC, different terpene profiles, were able to help more people were able to give prescribing doctors more choices, and patients more choices on how they how they help themselves.13:28  But it just seems like it would be a really cool opportunity to paint a picture of how you feel like you're going to be able to deliver something that maybe a physician doesn't feel like they've got a total grasp, because that's why you would offer an alternative. And then now you've recruited them to go now then just a new novel way, but prior to your launch wasn't really necessarily well embraced. How hard is it to get that message and get physicians to want to buy in to do that?13:54  It is still a challenge today. Sure. And one of the reasons I'm so excited that you invited me here today is because one of my number one missions right now is to try to get the word out to increase awareness. I suspect. We don't have a random text in here right now. But if we grabbed one walked outside in the heat, and ask them if cannabis was legal in the state of Texas, most likely they're gonna say no. And even for the patient groups where it is legal right now, most of them don't know that it's legal. So our number one job right now is creating awareness growing the number of Texans who are aware that they have this treatment available to them. And I really appreciate being on a show like this to help get the word out.14:32  What I think is so cool is that somebody with your pedigree has chosen to do this and now finding out why you chose to do it, which is you got into healthcare, you had the opportunity to do these, these other companies where it could have just been about financial reward. But once you got in and saw the impact that you can have that then you chose to do this with that message of we're going to empower people to take, take their health over what was your statement again,14:57  you're going to empower empower them to take charge with Their own wellbeing,15:01  empower them to take charge of their own well being. That's something that I try to do as a physician all the time. And so many times, it's limited because of the insurance plan because of lack of funding because of lack of efficacy. Sure. So I'm thrilled that Texas decided to do this because we've been waiting to see this happen. I've talked to my colleagues and other states, where medical cannabis is legal. And they tell me about the success that they're having with their patients. As a gastroenterologist, when I looked at, let me just pick a patient population, like my inflammatory bowel disease patients, I'm open to discuss things I I'm more of a functional type person. So I will ask these questions. And if somebody has Crohn's disease, and they're between the ages of 18 to 40, I just say, Are you using cannabis for your health? And they'll stop and be like, yeah, how did you guess? Yeah, I mean, they just go, yeah. And because they're on forums, they're talking. And I said, well, it's pretty exciting, because I think we're headed that way with Texas. And I think that we can make this so that you don't, so that you can have control over this so that you can actually empower your own health with this with products that are meticulously cultivated that have Certificate of analysis that you don't question, which is what good blend is doing. Right. Right.16:23  Well, the other the other message I'd like to get across and it ties into what you just said, is that it's actually easy to do, it's easy to get into the programme. So right, not only do they do Texans not know what exists, but if they do, they probably think it's incredibly difficult to get a prescription and to get product and to be able to afford it. And that's another message I would like to leave with folks is that it, take a look into it, right? Go to good blend.com because it's actually easy to get signed up and get to be part of the programme.16:48  Oh, we're gonna get into all of that. I have a feeling I want to like, where do I go? I love I love talking to people that have been there done that, that have degrees, like you have that have seen so many things. I want to know, you know, what Goodwin does where it is. But I think one of the most important things that people have to realise is that you've got very, I've been to a programme and I've met the doctors that showed up to the programme. And I've talked to paediatrician, psychiatrists and pain doctors here in Texas here in Plano, not just I'm not going very far out. And they told me the effects they're having on their patients. And these are smart people, somebody like you, also extremely smart, we start validating this whole industry and start shedding that kind of negative feeling that people have carried over over the years, obviously, other states are a little more advanced. But even my patients today, we had a 65 year old woman that is quite miserable from an autoimmune disease. And she just said flat out, would you care if I started smoking weed, and I'm like, not only do I not care, but I'm going to send you to a doctor because one of your diseases qualifies you, at least right now on this fairly limited set. And we'll talk about the different programmes, which are easy to get into and all these other things. And she just completely was like, You're kidding. I'm like now and these are, then you start briefly talking about ratios. And it's not about you know, smoking yourself, so you can't move on the couch. I just18:22  want to add to that, because where she is and where she finds herself. And this is why I think what company like good blend really bridges a gap that needs to be bridged. And that is, the reason why she asked or was hesitant to bring up the use of marijuana is because probably up until a certain point she felt shameful and trying to find a solution. And finally, she worked up enough nerve to finally throw it to Ken and say, do you mind if I do? So how long had she been sitting on the fence before she finally worked up the nerve, because we've seen it before. She's not a stranger to the clinic, to work up enough energy to be able to do that. And what I think is great about a company like good blend is stop waiting, we want you to feel better. And there's actually an easy pathway to do. So it's kind of how you see the the access there. Absolutely.19:10  It's it's one of the reasons that we try to have a vast selection of products that feel a little bit less intimidating. Right? So we'll probably get into that later too. But everything we can do to help folks out I mean, I'm actually kind of feeling bad for this person. Right? Because like you said, How long have you been sitting on that and not sharing that and she could have been helped a lot earlier. So yeah, and Texas is making really good strides there. Every two years. I have a legislative session and every two years we've been expanding the programme so I'm I'm very optimistic.19:43  It's if you are knowledgeable about this, so Eric and I got heavy into the CBD. Yes. area when CBD was still people were being arrested in Iran a foreigner here Yeah, Marin County. Over in Fort Worth. They were getting arrested. And I'm like I call Eric I'm like there's another person like what are we doing here? endocannabinoid system. This is perfect. And when you start talking about I'm like this person has an Endocannabinoid deficiency. They've got these chronic diseases, we are just putting band aids on all of these things, including pain meds. If we can get their endocannabinoid system back to balance, it is something that they need. If I have an asthmatic that shows up and they're wheezing, and I say you the only thing that that that is allowable under your plan, the only thing that's allowable in this, I'll take it back one second. Simone Biles, oh, yeah. Alright, so Simone Biles, this is and this was shared, I didn't I haven't talked to her. But it was viewed on a couple different articles that seemed pretty credible. It makes sense. Regardless, it different countries have different rules. Japan does not allow ADHD medication to be taken. She's been on ADHD medication for most of her life. So she goes to the Japan Olympics. And nobody's discussing that she couldn't take that it's a banned substance in the country. It's an accepted substance in the Olympic Committee, because it's an exemption, because they understand that. So she goes there. And everybody's like, what she's lost her train of thought and everything. So imagine if you can't get the drug that you need or the product that you need, and it's available right there. But somebody is putting a wall that's right there, if you're an asthmatic, and you're wheezing, and I can't give you ventolin inhaler to open up your Bronco airways because guess what? ventolin and bronchodilators. It has to be an exception. If it's if you're on the Olympics, like you have to get it exempt. Otherwise, it's considered a enhancing thing. There's things like that that are on that. You know that that's why you get NSF certified for different things, right things. So this is one of those deals where I'm like, if you're a diabetic and you need insulin, or if you need Metformin, and you can't get that, when I look at some of my patients, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, a beautiful balance of your endocannabinoid system may correct 90% of what you have going on, and we can take these eight drugs away. That's what I'm excited about.22:14  Yeah, so I have, I have a theory on this, which is that well, and partly this may end up being preaching to the choir, but it's my understanding that the endocannabinoid system is not well taught in med school, if at all. And if that's true, that means you have to learn it after you graduate. But it also means you may have some scepticism about it, it was only discovered in the 1990s. Yeah, I mean, how can we couldn't do better and discover before them, but that Okay, so it's discovered in the 90s. It's really important, right? And I've heard you guys talk about it a lot. But it is the I call it the it's like the conductor of the symphony. So it is conducting all the other systems in our bodies. And it's telling you that when to get a little louder, or that when to slow down. It keeps everything in balance. And a word you guys use frequently is homeostasis, right? It helps maintain that. And yet I was in a doctor's office the other day with my daughter had to get a COVID test before being allowed to go to San Diego State. And on the wall, this doctor's office you guys probably have to is the systems of the body. Right? It's got the skeletal system nervous system. And I look pretty hard on that poster, it could not find the endocannabinoid system. So to me, that kind of said, everything23:23  is that surprising. And it's unfortunate because it The end result is what we have now. It just simply becomes ignored. And then it becomes taboo. Because if it's being ignored, then maybe it's not acceptable to talk about and it's not acceptable to talk about then you have patients who are fearful for bringing forth an idea for a solution and then we're just slowing recovery when in fact, I mean, I'm not an advocate saying that THC is going to solve everything for anybody. But that doesn't mean it won't work for someone.23:51  We've talked about this before that I believe I'm a gastroenterologist I focus on the gastro anthological system. There are neurologists there are endocrinologist cardiologists, we will have an Endocannabinoid ologists because that is something that people have to get on board to get on board with. There's when you like First of all, a quick side note I suggest everybody after this is over go to good blends website that website is great. It is filled has so much information. So much great information about the history about why it became sort of tucked under the rug about how it was manipulated on a political level and then ultimately about how all these other cannabinoids are involved. So it's I don't know if you can't see it, it's way over there. But I purposely put I put a terpene in there we got lemonade being diffused right now so we can stay mentally clear. You know, terpenes being involved in all this. So as an induction as an Endocannabinoid ologists we're going to get to the point where we'll be like okay, well tell me what your Oh perfect. Sounds like You need some assistance with this. This is probably the blend that you need. This is more of you need a more CBD front heavy with immersing terpene to calm down and one thing in the morning. Yes, absolutely. And the fact that it's all natural and and does that.25:19  You want to repeat that. Just fixed my. We knew it didn't pop right back. I25:25  know what? No, I just said that. I think an Endocannabinoid ologists will eventually be able to fine tune what people take based on the terpenes. And Jen, and you mentioned,25:38  you mentioned maybe one thing in the morning, right to get you ready for your day and another thing in the evening to help you get ready for bed.25:44  Absolutely. And if we could get to that point where people are doing this, then they're like, okay, or as needed. The delivery systems. It's like, Okay, I'm a little overwhelmed right now I'm feeling really anxious. I just did a little something to cut this off. And non addicting all these other things. And Eric can attest to this. When we see these patients and we cringe every single time how many people show up young people. You look at their med list and you're like holy cow that Xanax, that's three different antidepressants. You got a muscle relaxer. How maybe Ambien will frequency so much Ambien, so much other sleep medicines. But let's look at the addictive potential of some of these medications, ultra opioids and benzodiazepines almost criminal, what has happened with these addictive medications that we know they're addictive, but without anything else to give them and you have a patient that's there. And as physicians and healthcare I ultimately want to help people and I have given opioids and I have had the discussion with them. Like I understand you're in a tremendous amount of pain, I need you to sleep. I'm willing to give this to you for a very short period, because I feel like if I can get you to sleep, your pain will be markedly better. And we can stop these other things. As somebody who the world's now not that recent, but five months or so ago, I had my first real neck injury where the pain was an I've redefined my pain scale kind of thing. People go, Oh, that's an eight out of 10 I really thought stubbing my toe. redefine it. And we've talked about him before but Wade McKenna, an orthopedist, you know, he told me he's like, Listen, I'm gonna, I don't I don't like, you know, hitting you with a bunch of opioids and stuff like this, what we really need is to call the muscles down, I'm going to give you a long acting, benzo for days, take it for four days, stop taking it after that, because your muscles will calm down at that point, there was a plan, there's a plan to get me on as a plan to get me off. And he purposely said, I don't mess with these opioids. Are you kidding me? As an orthopaedic surgeon, and when if we could sit there and say, okay, you a patient comes to me, I'm a, I'm a primary care doctor, and somebody has a significant injury. And so tell me what the biggest thing about this. It's the anxiety of knowing that I don't know what's going to happen, okay, then you give a blend, which is more effective on the anxiety, tell me what's happening here, the pain keeps me up. Okay, let's do this, we now have the opportunity to treat these symptoms that ultimately may or may not need some other intervention. But we know it's not addictive. We know that it actually has. And now we're going to get into the science of it. But we know that it actually has these different properties that help decrease the inflammatory processes by blocking p parganas. by blocking these different pathways, g couple proteins, we can get all sciency about it. But the reality is, I don't do that with my patients, I say, Tell me what it is that's bothering you the most. Let's see if we can give you something for that. That's the beauty of what you're doing right now. Good blend has the ability to take these natural molecules in different ratios to help in different scenarios. Totally agree.29:15  I mean, that's actually hit you reminding me it's kind of dissonant disheartening to look at a patient's med list when they come in. And there's a bunch of things kind of like what can just describe, and we're almost used to the polypharmacy or the or the multiple meds that are all listed there. And truly, knowing that a natural alternative could probably reduce that load. So we're playing less of this chemical warfare with this patient because it's almost a new we're kind of hinting at it earlier. It's almost like you're taking one thing to balance out the other thing that I've just gave them this new thing, and you're almost always chasing rather than actually treating and then and letting them be themselves.29:59  So we are getting that feedback from patients which is that once they've been on our medicine for a while they're their drug list is decreasing. Tell us I've we've had we have been able to stop these three things and now I'm down to these things I've been able to reduce the dose of these things. And if you I'm not, I'm not asking you to do this, but if you want to go Oprah on me and ask for patient testimonials I I made, you know, their tear jerker is really, in terms of helping things we're able to do with people.30:25  Well, you know what, yeah. Do you want to do it? Brian? Yeah, yeah. Tell me about one word, somebody, it made such a profound difference in their life that they couldn't hold back.30:34  Yeah. So there's a there's a patient we have that has terminal cancer. And that was a hard just that you guys have these conversation. I don't, it was a hard conversation for me to have. But he had a great outlook on his life. And he started taking our medicine, and he was able to cut back on his opioid use. And the way he described it to me was, it's not just good for me, it's really good for my family. Because on opioids, I'm a zombie. And with your medicine, since I've been able to decrease the opioids, I can be myself around my family my final days. So they're hard stories, but happy stories. Another mom said to us, her son had so many seizures a day that, and he had so many anti seizure medicine. He was kind of just there, right? But on our medicine, he was able to stop taking some of his anticonvulsant medicines. And he said, how this is when it gets me he says to us, one day, Mom, I have feelings.31:34  Wow.31:36  That's, I mean, what a What a crazy thing to have to lose as a kid the ability to basically participate in life because it's being taken away from you by a chemical that up until now was necessary, because you you obviously can't just sit there and suffer from seizure activity over and over again, that's, that's dangerous in and of itself. Right. But not knowing that there's a better alternative is honestly criminal. It's criminal, not to know that there's a better solution than just taking anticonvulsants to control I'm assuming epilepsy or something similar to32:09  right. So that's, so that brings up a really good point that mom, I have feelings. These medications have side effects, and the side effects that most people don't talk about as the pharmaceutical medicines, the pharmaceutical medications. Correct. So I get so many of these patients that are on polypharmacy, because so many of them have anti parasympathetic, meaning they affect the gut. Almost all of them do one way or the other. Oh, I have diarrhoea. When did that start? Six months ago, I see you're on Zoloft. When you start Zoloft. Seven months ago, huh? I have so much conversation What's going on? Oh, you're on the opioids? Oh, I've got a date all there. I'm fully aware that there's completely these are necessary drugs. But my job when I during residency. Some of us were chosen for basically treating older people. So I went to the older people clinic. And so my the technical term for it, that's the tactic. The older people,33:21  obviously, yes.33:23  Yeah. The layman's term is gerontology. But yeah, but we call it the older people. OPC. I would sit there. And as a resident, I'd looked at these lists, I'm like, you're 90, you're still here. Why do we care about your cholesterol that has this effect on this? And this? Why are you on this? Right? My sole job I viewed in that clinic, was to just get people off medicines, because the side effects at some point are just completely Yeah, outweighing that. And that was just a lifetime of going to this doctor that doctors cardiologists going to give this guest route, they just keep adding up. They just keep adding up him. Somebody shows up with a list of this. None of these drugs have ever been conducted in a trial, where they're all together. What happens then? We don't know. Well, I'm dealing with that now. And I've got a nine year old person and just every time they'd come back, they'd be more alert more. If you made it to 90. You're a baller. You've done it right. You deserve to drink, what's your mama smoke,34:28  what you eat what you want, do whatever it is. And they would love that by the time they were there. Yeah, they start having fun again, and it was just about getting them off their drugs. You got to hit on something, though. And maybe you seen this because you said you've seen a show or or two but something that we've had we have hit on is lifespan, and life expectancy is just a number. But what's way more important truly, to enjoy those numbers is to have a good health span. And to be able to function and participate in life if you're going to live it. You may have It'll be involved in it right? How do you How does? How does your company view healthspan? In relation to to that?35:09  I would say it's similar to the the things we've been talking about, which is if you can, if, if there's, if there's an opportunity to live a higher quality life, right. And there's a natural way to do that, and to get off some of the pharmaceuticals that maybe are causing some of the side effects, and you can live a happier higher quality life. I mean, that's, that's what we're here for. Right? It's kind of what I talked about well being that's exactly what we're here for.35:36  So if you gave two quick testimonies, one, obviously about someone with epilepsy and one from somebody who was suffering from terminal cancer, yes, what other what other ailments to kind of focus on as it stands right now?35:51  The so there is a treatable conditions list on Texas. And it is, it was created by statute. As you know, it started out in 2015, as intractable epilepsy, that was the only treatable condition. In 2019, the programme was expanded in a significant significant way where a lot of new conditions were added. So terminal cancer, autism, ALS, Parkinson's, spasticity, a whole giant category of conditions under the headline, incurable neurodegenerative diseases. And that has a list of about 300 things underneath it. So it was pretty significant expansion. And I would say across all those, all those treatable conditions, we're hearing positive testimonials.36:36  That's fascinating. And actually, I had glanced at it, I don't think that they cannot have spent any time on it. But I did notice that there was autism. And I don't know that you do you have a testimony or not. But it's definitely something that's near and dear to this guy in our research, just to polyphenols but he's made he's made no mistake about it. There's a play there with with cannabinoids as well.36:59  Yeah, I'll give you my I'll give you my take. In fact, we work with a great asset. She's been on the show before Angie cook. And she wrote up an incredible which I've yet to publish, partly because at the time, people were being I mean, Texans don't even I, I can go around right now and talk to my patients about CBD. And I've got CBD all over my office. And they will be like, Oh, boy, no, I'm not into that. And I'm like, let me explain that to you real quick. And let me explain this. Do you have any chronic condition, whatever, like, Well, yeah, totally do well, and then they end up, you know, purchasing it and saying, yeah, it made a huge difference. And it comes down to that rebuy rate. So as a business person, we know that I've got a almost 50% rebuy rate on Tron teal. And this is like, you know, worldwide. We know that that works. Because as if anybody's ever been in the pharmaceutical industry, I prescribe a drug and they come in and I'm like, Did that work and their trials that you know, the studies show? It's 8% better than placebo, whatever. So it all comes down to does the person want to come back and purchase more? That's To me, that's the that's where the rubber hits the road. My move towards autism became very personal. When I had a patient that brought her son in and he had become I'm an adult doctor, he had moved on from paediatrics to adult. And she said he's becoming almost impossible to take care of when he eats. He cannot communicate. He flailed he gets almost violent. And he's, you know, he's 16. Is he just becoming a young man, and this is getting really bad. I said, Listen, I don't know a whole lot about autism. But I do know that. You said when he eats, let's treat his gut. Let's fix his gut. And I'm just now getting into something where I believe it will play a role. And I put them on CBD. And now looking back, we're going to look at this, I'm going to be sitting in a lecture someday and an endocrinologist will have the exact thing to give that person. But right now that was best I could do is your mother shows up three months later, crying. And her son is communicating, not high level, but she's like, he's like, Hi. And he's talking. And I'm like, How do you feel? And he's like, you know, good. And she's like, This is crazy. It's been 10 years and I have not seen this person. And like, I don't know if it was the fix in the gut. I don't know if it was the CBD regardless, I think it's both. And that's where it came in. So then Angie did this incredible write up and maybe we can team up with your people to get it published, but it's like 50 pages long. It's super sciency. It's all about autism and the effect on the endocannabinoid system. And when I go to my colleagues and they say there's no science on this, we share a Mandalay capability, what Mandalay is. So we share this, the repository of journals that are out there are published and we've got a whole folder on There's a whole folder on CBD a whole folder on cannabis and cannabis. And the sciences, they're animals to humans. The problem is the science in the United States is not here the science that is recognised by our journals here, because, and we talked about this, that people don't realise that it was approved if you're going to study cannabis, and Michael Pollan was talking about this, the author Michael Pollan was talking about this, that the cannabis, which is approved by the FDA to be used in studies. It comes from one place, one place some crap lace, it's like 60 years old. Yeah, it's been around, and kind of just40:40  shit marijuana. It just it's not indicative. It's not similar to the kinds of Medicinal Products that you're gonna get.40:47  Yeah, exactly. This40:48  is what it is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is, this is what all sanctioned and allowed us research is done on is basically just this one lot. Correct.41:00  or from a federal perspective, I believe that's right. Yeah. Having said that, very exciting news in this most recent legislative session. Nice. The statute that they added to the statute that Texas can start its own research programme. So the department State Health Service real for real so yeah, they're they're writing the rules right now. And yes, it's very exciting. So Texas cannabis research. Does part of the Texas compassionate use Berg did not know that did not know that. And it goes beyond the treatable conditions list. For sure. do research, the research, whoever the research institution is picks what they want to study,41:40  I need people to hear that said a little bit close with money. Which part the?41:46  The research so the Texas compassionate use programme is introducing a research element. And the department State Health Services is writing the rules right now. I think they're even posted for public comment. And it's gonna happen. And so the research, whoever the research institution is, and they provide a list of who can qualify, you pick the condition you want to do research on. You do have to find an IRB. But it's sky's the limit. Oh,42:12  my gosh, that makes me so excited that just that turned into hope for my IBD patient. Yeah.42:20  So just to click and you42:21  get to use our products. You don't have to use the federal cannabis.42:25  Okay, I have been that is exciting having you on just for that one thing. I hope my partners listen to this because ga right now is we're getting close to 1000 providers strong. And in the state of Texas, basically everybody in the state now as part of this one group, to be able to power a study like that could be fan tastic. I have just, I thought that it was completely prohibitive. And Gotta love Texas. Gotta love. We're gonna do it in Texas if the feds don't want us. That's awesome.42:59  No comment on that. Your point about autism, I've had the I've been very fortunate to be able to attend a to medical cannabis conferences in Israel. And then one was in LA. And there's plenty of studies out there about autism and THC for43:14  sure. And that's what this 50 page review that Angie put together, put a lot of sweat and tears into it. And it's something that we should probably team up with some of your scientists to update it because it's about two years old. Yeah. But I was shocked reading it, the level of science, the level of information out there, and the amount of benefit that you can actually do and the correlation. So for me as gastroenterologist the correlation that when the endocannabinoid system is off, it affects all systems. But in my opinion, all health begins and ends in the gut. If you don't have a healthy gut, you ultimately affect the brain. And we've got we've done podcasts on this where we can show that neuro inflammation or chronic inflammation affects f h, which is the enzyme that breaks down your own endocannabinoids. And when you lower your inanda mind, which is the one that you know is your low level keeping you there. It's your body's own equivalent to THC. It's your body's own equivalent. And then on the flip side, when you have to a G which is the spotlight if that's getting turned on all the time, that's your that's like a that's the other portion of the endocannabinoid system. The difference between a Stanford grad and a simple country but doctrine Nebraska is I've used the same example the endocannabinoid system, but you referred to it as a symphony conductor. I refer to it as a traffic cop. Yeah. They're both good. I could say mines. You know what? I won't say. Yours is more elegant to start using that from now on. Yeah,44:52  elegant was exactly the word I was gonna say. So I'm glad you said it is refined and yours is quickie, Martin.45:00  To your point about the importance of the gut. And if you haven't checked out this research, please do. I think you're gonna find it very interesting. There's one of the leading researchers in the field of cannabis is a Dr. Ethan Russo. And he has a I think he calls it. I may begin this wrong, but the grand unified theory, but of course it spells out gut, but it's all about the the brain gut connection and with the endocannabinoid system as a key part of it, and you've you've addressed this in previous conversations, but they're all tied together.45:33  One of my problems that I have had, and I'm curious how you and your sales people have dealt with this, it's the person that I know how to say this. I'm enthusiastic. And it took me a long time I've read vitamin weed, which is a great book, forgot the Michelle Ross, Michelle Ross. That's it. Michelle Ross wrote that she's a PhD. You know, there's Goldstein's book. These books are great. But I had to read them a couple times. The first time I started getting into it before you start going because it's it's a different language. It's that's why I think we're gonna have an Endocannabinoid ologists. My problem is when I have somebody, it's that the vomit of knowledge that I have to keep myself from doing when somebody is like, what's that? And then you start getting into it, and you're like, what's the endocannabinoid system? So I've always I'm a little bit curious, from a business perspective, how you as a company, get into that naive, let's just start with the naive doctor46:38  that says, Why don't know about this? They start with the, you know, yeah, you know, I'm kind of curious. He may not want to divulge everything, but I really kind of want to know how many practitioners throughout the state are actively participating in this programme.46:50  So the state publishes some data about the programme. The most recent date is from July, and there were over approximately 50046:59  Oh, wow, it's much47:00  bigger than I thought. And to be a prescribing doctor, you have to be a board certified specialist, as you are. So it's, it's not every doctor, you have to write you have to be board board certified. And then the patient, the patient count as of July was right around 7070 507,500. That may not sound like much, but it's growing 10% every single month. Well, it'll be one of those things every single and this is in the in the official kickoff was 2019. Right. For the first patients. The first patients were actually served in 2018. Okay, not by us, but okay.47:38  So that is so tip of the iceberg because as a clinician, I went on once I found out you know, one of your sales people that had has known me for a long time as a friend and they got involved with this knowing that I'm involved with CBD and understand the endocannabinoid system. So first thing I did is I tried to sign up well, my specialty is not listed. So as a gastroenterologist, I'm not listed as currently interesting currently, because when I did the whole thing and went through it and tried to I couldn't find that. And then for me, it was a little daunting to say, Well, I'm internal medicine is there on board certified internal medicine, but I really practice 100%, gastroenterology. And I did not want to false under any false pretences as this is, because it's just a matter of time. It's better a short time. So discussing that, from a business perspective, what can I do? As a physician who's very interested in this? help some of the legislation, bring in other let's start, I've got a tonne of questions about that all these little things, but help bring in other specialists are there? I mean, I don't I don't even know I don't even know, like committees are?48:55  Well, hopefully, a discussion like this helps. Right? For starters, right? It was one of the reasons. I mean, hopefully doctors watching this who are board certified specialists who are intrigued and have heard how much this can help will apply to get the programme. It's very simple for doctors to get in. You, you just provide your Texas Medical licence number, I think and your board certification number and the Department of Public Safety checks those two things. And that's pretty much the extent of it, you become registered and at that point, they very much leave things up to the doctor. That's one of the great things about the programme is Let's trust the doctors.49:33  So in this case, not knowing enough about that. I'm like, Well wait till my specific specialty, it just there was neurology, oncology, pain, internal medicine. There was a lot of specialists so if there's a physician listening to this, go check it out, because more likely you're there. I'm just saying that gastroenterology was one of the few that was not listed.49:55  I can I can certainly bring that up with them and ask, you know, we can get If we can get that specialty added, I'm surprised it's not on there.50:02  That was eight months ago, nine months ago, something like that. Maybe it is I haven't checked recently. But I thought, well, it should50:11  be one of the things I think you should be is. And I actually learned this from you in our very first phone call. One of the treatable conditions, which I don't think I listed before is called spasticity. And it is unlike everything else on the list for your very intelligent audience. They know as soon as I say that they're like, which one is not like the other spasticity is a symptom, am I correct, and everything else is a sort of a disease or condition. And you informed me that much of what happens between the mouse the top and the bottom, you know, by the way, for those who don't know, if you get on a phone call with a gastroenterologist, it can get like, it was unexpected. I was not expecting to have that conversation. In my day. I'm on the phone. I'm like, Whoa, because we went top to bottom, or you did, but apparently, it's all a lot of it's muscle. And there can be spasms in that muscle spasticity in the muscle, and that is a treatable condition.51:03  It's nerves innervating muscles and the muscles if they go into spasm create tremendous pain. And if you're ever worked in ER, and you ask an ER physician, what's the what's some of the most common complaints, it's abdominal pain. Now that can be all the way from a perforated bowel appendicitis. But a lot of times people just get labelled, Oh, you've got a bug or IBS, and then they get sent out. That's it's a huge chunk, because it covers so much territory. So yeah, for spasticity. If we can get the spasticity handled, I can help so many people, my cebo people. So if you have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, one of the reasons why you have so much pain is because the bacteria produce gas, which stretch the intestines, in a reflex, the intestines trying to track back, that's a spasm, this is reminiscent of our phone call together. except you're eating at the time. When somebody poops like this, you want to make sure that52:06  I'm kind of curious about if if, in the new, you put it in these words, if a if a interested position, or one on the fence, even we're, we're considering this, and you've already talked about what it takes to get approved. So let's talk a little bit about what's the experience like to be that practitioner. For one, you write a, an opioid, or what something has a highly addictive property, or even if it's classified that way, it's called a controlled substance. And then in Texas until recently, we always came with the paper, triplicate, I mean, there was a there was a form to do so. So what's it like? What's the process for the writing of the prescription? And the experience going through your company? And what is the physician See? How is it dispensed? What's the fall ill insurance your ongoing?52:52  Sure. A challenge for a patient can be finding a doctor who can prescribe we've tried to help with that by we have we have a virtual clinic on our website. So if you go to good blend calm, you can actually see a doctor through telehealth, it's one of the very great things the state of Texas has done is enabled telehealth for this programme, which is super exciting. You can see a doctor through a telehealth appointment or you can go to a doctor's office and see them there. They're either either the doctor will diagnose you with one of the treatable conditions, or you bring your medical records from a different doctor who's, for instance, if you had a patient and in their chart, and you'd put spasms of the gutter specificity, or they could actually take that chart to another doctor and get a prescription.53:37  That is fantastic video. So as somebody who's learning and I'm risk averse, and all these things, I just don't want to I want to make sure that I follow the lay of the wall, which is why I stopped when my own specialty wasn't there. That is fantastic to know that I can say look I can right now I'm not comfortable doing it. But I truly believe that you could benefit from this, please go to this website. Set up a virtual visit. Show them this note, fax them my clinic note 100% Oh, that's54:08  easy fan. TAs this, that's awesome news because it actually allows a physician on the fence or is worried about blowback from maybe their own partners, they can now safely dip their toe in the water and say, Look, I've got a pathway for you to get we have doctors that do this all the time.54:21  Oh my gosh, that is great. You're exactly right. When I first started doing CBD, one of my partners grabbed all my all my pamphlets and said brown wants to sell weed in our clinic. That's fine, but I'm not taking part of it. Not a joke. So and then if I actually,54:37  you know because there's just this much misinformation and and the people don't educate themselves. That is awesome. Because what are we talking about here and you said it you started off this interview. We want to help people and the people we want to help as the patients and you don't care if you're getting the credit as the doctor who is being in this position to do Do that. This is about the patient who comes in and says I hurt or I can't get over it or I as you said with the with the kiddo I can't feel. Let's get them on a route to do so if you're uncomfortable doing it's fine. Let them take what you found with them and then and then head over to G website55:18  not to digress really quick. But when you said that I can feel for the first time imagine your child who you love dearly that has never been able to express love can then express that because of this because you got them off these meds as living that's living. Yeah. That's, that's awesome.55:38  Yeah, it's fantastic. Oh, and I know you didn't mean to digress, but I am curious though. Yeah. Once they rot55:44  that continues a journey for Yeah, sure. So that everything the patient record for the programme lives on a Texas website. It's the it's called curtsy u RT, the Compassionate use registry of Texas. A prescribing doctor would go into it's it's an online service, but you go into you log into that service. And then you create a new patient profile for your new patient. And then you create a prescription for that patient. And so your prescription you have they give ultimate flexibility for how you want to write this prescription. The ones we recommend are flexible to give the patient flexibility. So you would specify here's the milligrammes of THC, I think would work for you over a an X day period. So this prescription is going to exist for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, we recommend 90 days, because I think one of things we've learned from the the, like the CVS is in the Walgreens of the world is that you can write that longer prescription you're going to get better compliance for for the second round of dispensations, but so 90 day prescription, this much THC and milligrammes and then you have to specify the means of administration, you can get very specific with that you can say, it's got to be tincture, or got to be a gummy, or there's a box that says, I think it says other any means other any means. And then there's a notes field. And so what you could say to a patient is, so you do all that. And you could say I recommend you start with this in the morning, this in the evening. And if you want to dabble with your, you know, try, try this and see how it works for you, you can try that too. So that all exists in an electronic record. The next step then is for the patient to contact, good blend. And then we they tell us their identifying information, we pull up that patient record and that prescription and we're able to dispense against that one opportunity for improvement in the programme. And some doctors do this some don't is you think about it, when the patient leaves that appointment. You know how this goes, I can't I can't remember really half what a doctor says when I leave that appointment, cuz it's a high stress, time. And when you get home, I have trouble remembering what the doctor said. So we do recommend you give the patient something that says, here's what I'm prescribing you, or you send them a follow up email and says, here's, here's the prescription I gave you, otherwise, they don't remember what you're prescribed. And then we're the ones reminding them, Hey, your doctor prescribed X, Y and Z. But that's the process. So you see a doctor doctor interest, the prescription into the compassionate use registry of Texas patient contacts us we dispense against that in terms of getting the medicine and products to patients. We offer a lot of different ways to do that. We started out as 100% a delivery model. So we were delivering to patients homes. We've recently added the the ability for patients to come into certain doctor's offices and pick up their what they've ordered. And even more recently, we've added the ability. It's almost like a miniature retail experience. But we bring unassigned product into the doctor's office, and a patient could walk right out of your appointment. you've entered their prescription and occurred and we can they can shop right there and buy what they want. And then so a one stop shop.58:50  Let me clarify that really quick. So you're saying that a physician can actually have product in their office and they can sell it directly to the patient.58:59  We do the selling? Yes. Okay. We are there in the in the lobby or wherever, wherever we are and patient comes in and they they see what we have to offer and then they buy what the prescription says and sorry, pharmacy extension, essentially essentially I'm okay. Okay,59:13  so just one small caveat on this journey, so far, so much like, just so that people don't think that a physician is just guessing what the milligrammes are, whenever a new minute, whenever a new medication comes out that isn't cannabis. They utilise representative representatives to go and educate a physician. I doesn't matter if it's a new blood pressure medication. Every blood pressure medication that you've ever taken has had a representative go in and basically detail a physician on that. So I would imagine that there is a detailing process on best practices, things to look for cues. Correct. Thank you for bringing that up.59:51  Yes, we as you would a physician would not be guessing. We have we have dosing guides. In For instance, if you want the prescription to be 90 days long. And you're thinking about prescribing x, we have a recommended daily dose and just multiply by 19. Put that into the prescription. So yes, we, we provide all those sorts of collateral educational material and that1:00:09  kind of stuff. I mean, that's, that's not unique just to cannabis. I mean, we do that literally with every single pharmaceutical that has ever been rolled out. Physicians practitioners need to be educated on it. So this, love this because this is no different. And except for that it is because people have worried away from it. And I think it shouldn't1:00:31  be different, right? And we're getting to the point where it's not sure I got here, you one other way, it's similar to the way prescriptions work in the pharmaceutical side is, if a patient were to call us or, or ask for something that was slightly different than what you prescribed, then we have the ability to contact the prescribing doctor and say, Hey, the patient is interested in this slightly different than what you prescribe. So for instance, let's say you, you check the box for tincture, and the patient decides they want to try our 12 ounce beverage or patient wants to try gummies might be in the same ratio might even be the same dose, it's just a different means of administration, we're able to contact you and say, Are you okay? If the patient gets this instead, and then we just write the note into the look like a little hamster typing there. We just write the note into the, into the prescription.1:01:21  But I mean, that happens with generics and name brands and regular pharmaceuticals, too. So I mean, I think I think it's awesome that y'all it's it's completely your legitimising something that should have been legitimise a very, very long time ago. I love that you'll have that in your model. Yeah, it's1:01:36  transparent. Yeah. I love how that's, that's well. And also, let's, since you brought it up several times, let's talk about these different means of administering. If you have examples, like what what are some of the things that you that you've seen your practitioners have success with that some of the clients the patients seem to like, because a lot of people don't realise A lot of people think oh, I, I don't I just have to smoke it. Right. That's the only thing that that it's there for it. So this is a medicinal product. What are some of the ways? Sure, sure.1:02:06  So we started with started with tinctures back in the our first first couple months and and that was when the programme was in early days of the programme. I should back up a second say. One thing to note about the Texas compassionate use programme is we are capped at a THC maximum currently of 0.5%. by weight. If you know your you know the world of cannabis, you're thinking that's a very small amount of THC. It goes up to 1% starting September 1 based on most recent legislation, but one of the things we realised is that if depending on what the product is what depending what the means of administration is 0.5% can actually be a lot right the heavier the other ingredients are. The more you can get in there more THC you can put in the product and still stay below the 0.5% limit. So we had tinctures for a while and then we moved on to Los Angeles. We were the first company in the state to come out with an edible product like that it was lozenges meant to kind of dissolve in your mouth and for absorption of the cannabinoids after lozenges, we came out with gummies we're the first in the state come out with gummies we have one to one CBD THC ratio gummies and we have five milligrammes THC straight up. And in those gummies we've got different terpene profiles, we've got a sativa profile and indika profile that that's getting our doctors from prescribing flexibility we see you know, common common prescription might be take the one to one gummy, that's sativa in the morning, because it can be more stimulating and it's not you know, it's a one to one CBD THC so you have those working together. But when you're getting ready for bed, take the five milligramme indika gummy which can can be relaxing and can help you sleep. So those gummies really helped with prescribing flexibility. We then came out with lotions. So we've got some topical products, which now again you have to have one of the treatable conditions. But if you also have some other symptoms that could be helped by our medicines, then you're in the programme. Sure you have access to everything once you're in the programme. We launched medical capsules, which is a really nice, very precise dosing product for doctors. And then most recently, we were the first. By the way, all of these were first in the state. We most recently launched our 12 ounce beverage cannabis infused beverage, which I guess I have since I brought pot props, I might as well show the prop. It's empty because right now we don't have a prescription. But all these are getting great feedback I'd say are1:04:47  the most popular. What are some of the other products that you brought. These1:04:50  are all empty, of course there's our gummies here, these are the Texas Orange City, the five milligrammes I got one of our lotion, one of our topical lotion jars, here. Sure. Thank you for asking that question because one of the things I should mention is one of the things we did launch, this is our dream tincture. So it's it's designed with a terpene profile for evening use. Yeah, but one of the things we also did with this tincture, and it's a different bottles that we added, lowers, they can go to our website and see a nice rendering of the bottle. But one of things we did with this launch of the dream tincture is we had a

Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family I hope that you're having a great day. It's now time for episode number 60. Soon to be joined with my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth brown board certified gastroenterologist and we are digging in to my colony Yes, kicking it off to fun guys talking about fun Gus so let's get straight to it. I think that you will really like the series which we are about to kick off So with no further waiting let's get into the people that pay the bills are trying to get your daily polyphenols and artron to go to love my tummy.com slash KB MD. Get your very own polyphenols from artron to love my tummy calm today. Second, of course go and feel like great food. Don't forget that you can always head over to unrefined bakery calm or you paleo eater. You can't tolerate gluten you want just some great bread but you're worried about the way there's gonna make you feel unrefined a bakery, take 20% off your entire first order it unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% for your entire first order unrefined bakery.com And last but not least, head over to KB m d health.com. For your very own Dr. Brown signature packages artron teal CBD from KB MD health as well as the only professional curcumin added to broccoli. That's right so if you're feigns for you, your health use code GCP for 20% off of any order a short intro because we're kicking off an awesome series here no guest today so we're going to get straight to the to the information for about mycology and fungus. There's over a million different types of mushrooms which you may or may not be aware of, however, does tune in Episode 16 starting now.Hello KBMD health family and gut check project fans. It's time now for Episode Number 60 with my awesome co host here, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'm Eric Rieger. Dr. Brown, I think with this episode number 60 we must be a couple of fun guys.that's a that's a pretty good pun. Because today we're talking fun guy.We are talking aboutmushrooms. So we're it's pretty exciting. I was watching on Netflix of a show called fantasticfungi. logs. It was talking about that.Yeah. And so a lot of people if you get a chance go and take a look at this. Paul Stamets I learned about this pre COVID when Paul Stamets went on Joe Rogan. And at that time he was talking about it and they're trying to raise money. So I rent or I purchased the movie, sure through Amazon Prime or one of those and watched it. Because they're supposed to go to various locations and show it at theaters like yeah, like in like in really cool locations, and outdoor theaters and stuff like that COVID hit, didn't get a chance to do it. And now it's on Netflix so you can see it. It's great. But what it does show is just how complex fungi are and the whole kingdom of fungi, which includes the mushrooms, which everybody thinks of them as mushrooms, and we're gonna get into that a little bit. But today we're gonna talk about that and not just kind of what they talked about. I mean, there's a lot of stuff in the medium right now about magic mushrooms and different things like that. But we're gonna talk the nutritional aspect, because an article just came out recently and I think you're gonna start seeing a big push of people discussing Well, how do we use this as a functional food, and that's what I want to get into today.That's huge and interesting, because growing up, I think that my only exposure to mushrooms were if they happen to come in a soup or if it was a you know, a portabello or a baby Bella or just a traditionally a white Texas mushroom and really didn't know much else than if they grew in the yard. And of course your mom was like, don't touch those are probably poisonous. So I I think it's kind of amazing how people kind of transitioned on this is actually something that can be very, very beneficial given the right circumstance.Absolutely. It's so cool. There's so much science with it. And you're right like it could be poisonous. Unfortunately, a good friend of ours, Dr. Rusev, Ron, a gastroenterologist in San Antonio, if you're anywhere in that area, make an appointment with him. He's amazing. His chocolate lab ate a skullcap I believe in cause liver failure. And his poor dog is really close to his dog and so that happened to our pig.Oh, that's right. Snoop hoggy, hoggy,hoggy hog you have pig wedid and Snoop Doggy hog a to death cap and it's very sad but it literally followed the the timeline of what happens when a mammaleats exists. skullcap or death tap is a call to death camp.I was assuming skullcap was another one I didn't really know butI'm barely getting into the one You can eat, let alone a boy,but you're not supposed to. So they, I think the death caps, at least in Texas, they'll follow the tree roots of oaks or post Oaks. And we've got a lot of okay. And so we're where we lived at that time. And so he was kind of lethargic for a day or two. And then there was about three days where he was really energetic and hyperactive. And I hated to see it, but it's almost like there's this turn, it's about a six to seven day rule. There's not a lot he knew.Regardless, I was just sitting there this morning, actually, this morning, I was doing the like news feeds. And of course, something always makes it up on Reddit. There's a woman in Taiwan where her landlord won't fix the leaks. And she was showing pictures of her bedroom, where the leaks are coming down to the wall. It's becoming a whole wall. It's a mushroom growing apartment, Natalie. Yeah. And she was just showing it's just like strips of mushrooms. And you know, it was getting a lot of comments, like if you you know, is that this will, if that's that, then you can eat it. And that's good news. And other people are like you're just breathing in spores. Pretty sure. Not the best place to have mushrooms all over your bedroom, but it is part of it.I don't know if it is or if itisn't. We'll get into all of this about the beneficial aspect of mushrooms. This is not a show about what what mushrooms can kill you. We're going to talk about how you can utilize mushrooms for your overall health benefit. And I was blown away by how healthy these are like people aren't talking about it. I always thought mushrooms were just something to add texture. And she didn't really think much about it. No. Now, this is really cool, because we're going to even sample a mushroom dish that has the nutritional value of this is pretty cool.Yeah, I'm excited to sample it again.Speaking of cool, yeah. I want to give a shout out to the wonderful Dr. Christian mill vilem you're that's how you sayOh, yeah, last guess. Yeah,yeah. Kristin. Well, she did something really cool about this now, and she sent us signed copies biohack your brain your Eric says right there dear Eric, left a little message for you. biohack your brain on our last episode Episode 59. Dr. Kristen, it's it's spelled Willem here. It's pronounced the villa Muir, PhD super smart, fantastic woman she sent us both signed copies of biohack your brain. And I think she's gonna end up coming out with addition to after she hears this episode, because I think we can help even biohack your brain more with these mushrooms.They are amazing. Thank you, Kristen, this is this is a very, very nice gift. And I mean, the feedback from that episode alone is really kind of amazing and ongoing. And people are are wanting to learn from her book because we referenced it. But yeah, she'sa smart cookie. And a study just came out today, sort of verifying everything she has in this book study just came out with a huge, huge number of people that showed those people that eat flavonoids, which she discusses correct in her book, significantly decreased dementia later in life. Oh, we talked about polyphenols all the time. But today we're going to come off the whole polyphenol thing and talk a little about mushrooms because I'm just excited. I feel like we're kind of pulling the lid off of this whole mushroom thing, the way that we did with polyphenols, and we keep getting deeper and deeper. Let'sdo it. I'm ready to learn.Yeah. Let's go ahead and jump in. Before we jump in really quick. I was just thinking about this. I I have not seen Mac or Murray around. And just it's odd not to see them or they did everything going okay with Mark and Murray. They are alive. Okay. And they are not in the countrywasn't as in the United States. They are in a country. So everyone is I mean, everyone's susceptible, I guess. And as a family, we took a trip to Panama the country onaverage on the news, those vacation trips look amazing, man, thatis great trip. I mean, it really wasn't wonderful family vacation. And we, we we weren't trying to go around crowds. Unfortunately, we we did have to go through an airport. So I'm assuming that possibly that's where the infection took place. But I don't I don't know. No one knows. But all four of us flew in to Panama City, we immediately get to a rental car. And we drove five and a half hours deep into the jungle down to this whale peninsula. There we served had a great time. And then we set up a test for us to be tested outside of the Panamanian International Airport at the tocumen Airport and we were advised that Be sure and do it outside of the air. Because if someone happens to be positive, you can then quarantine yourself, and then schedule your own subsequent tests to come back. So we did that. The other problem was is when they called to give us our results, we were already in the airport, we didn't realize that there was that caveat. So when informed that Mac was positive on his antigen swab coach that I said, well, do we need to leave? And they basically, we were informed Well, you're already on camera. And you're there. You got to stay. So essentially, Mac was was COVID positive, the pain could have any symptoms. 00 nada, no, no fever doesn't doesn't feel bad. But he and since he's only 17, and not 18, that meant that a parent had to stay. Fortunately for us, Murray does all of her work digitally, almost. And she's able to stay with him. But they are in a hotel room until the end of this week.Did they get to choose their hotel room that sounds neat wasn't necessarily a choice.Wasn't a choice at all. And they are only in the room and Reid and Mack both deserve huge credit because they've kept a great attitude. I don't think I could have pulled it off. But she she took some funny videos when they first got there because when they get their meals, they either flash the lights in the room or they buzz their room and tell them that they can go down the hallway. And this is a this is a very nice hotel. The hotel is not old at all. It's very brand new. It's brand new.It's so it's a Panamanian, COVID Hotel, that's where their quarantine all visitsare seven nice hotels that are quarantine for visitors currently. And they they didn't have to walk down the hallway and then an unmanned elevator appears with their food Emory took a picture of is a very Stephen King. Yeah,it sounds like a horror film. Yeah. They're waiting for two little girls and tricepsto shine. And I think I think if only for you know, five days, it would be kind of funny. As we're approaching 14 days, no one's really laughing much. You come home,I say on the news, because all my employees I showed up to work and they're like, Hey, we saw Eric's family. And like you didn't see the whole family.Yeah, just just just half. But does read it and re gave him pictures. She was contacted from a local affiliate, because I think it could be wrong, but I think she has a client who has a connection. They reached out to them and, and Mac and Maria, both good sports. And they went along with it. And I want to say just like they did, the Panamanian people, wonderful, this is very little to do with them. We're not above anybody's protocol, we went with exactly it happened. We thought we were being cautious. And, you know, we're we're still going to enjoy ourselves as a family. That's what this is the risk that we took.I think it's and I think that's great. I think the lesson here is if you're when you come into a country, you have to be COVID negative, and we're all getting used to taking those tests before we go. And then when you leave at least do it a day or two before so that you don't have to be part of the governmental process. Yeah,it's there's a couple of lessons certainly in there about the way to handle it, just simply because of the the way the bureaucratic rules are. And it's it's no one's fault, who's who's necessarily down in Panama. However, that being said, you know, would we have traded in the vacation in the time that we guys are family to tonight ever have those experiences? I still say no. Yeah.And so when that those, those pictures were amazing. The Panama just looked absolutely beautiful.Yeah, it was nice.anything going on with you personally, sides spending all your time trying to figure out how to get stuff to them inPanama. Oh, man, that was not very much fun. Everything is kind of pales into comparison. where lots of work and that's enough. Self well, because you got something coming up with you got a young one that travels.So this is relevant. So Lucas had a really good showing at one of the largest tournaments of the year called the qaiser tournament in Kalamazoo, Michigan. him and his partner, Nico godsick won the doubles. Awesome. And then he made it to the finals unfortunately didn't pull it off because the winner gets to go to the US Open. So didn't quite but still huge bracket 250 some kids the best in the country. And he made it to the finals. So super proud of him.But your son also overcame in the semi finals, a six one loss in the first to come back and win the next two. Correct?Correct Yeah, so in the semi finals, he came out a little but it just shows the caliber of play that's out there. If you don't have your game face on, you can or if you're just not firing on all cylinders, and you know he's playing two matches a day, every day for whatever seven days in a row. pretty wild and really cool to see that that level. We'll play they streamed it online. So I was able to watch these matches and you know, and love that my son was able to give a very gracious and appropriate loss post loss speech afterwards where they kind of hand the mic to you and you kind of get the you understand what it's like when you you miss out on something you want so bad, they're like, okay, that's great. Hey, what do you think about that? Put a mic in front of it, I think if the Naomi osaki stuff that's going on, and how the media stuff but so super proud of him. And we'll see what what goes on. He's gonna be doing some international traveling. And so we had a long talk about what makin Maria going through and how we're going to do the testing now and how to make sure that you cover your bases and how to prepare that if you have to stay for an extra two weeks,I will say gauge when we when the news broke that, that some people were going to have to stay because of quarantine gage was obviously negative. And he looked at us and he said, Well, I'm getting on the plane. So he is back at his back and luck attack and getting ready for the fall semester. He's looking forward to just having a fall semester where they actually go to classlike it like a real college experience. Yeah, yeah, totally. super proud. Carla's taking tennis, serious enough that now she's going to do online school. So she's joined the what I guess the more competitive group at the legs where they practice in the morning stuff. And so she's doing some fun fitness. This is the only thing she came home. And she was like, yeah, that had this fitness guy. And he's talking about fast twitch muscles in doing this and explosive power. And we're doing all the exercises that you make me do. I'm like, I'm telling you. Yeah. You guys think I don't read? I mean, I'm not telling you. Just because I'm a country, but doctor doesn't mean I can't at least read some stuff on sports performance. Yeah, I'mlearning that parents don't always get the same credence design.So Well, I think Dan is up to speed here. That's been an interesting week that you've had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk mushrooms that. Alright, so I want to talk a bit about the nutritional value of mushrooms and the effects on the microbiota. We always talk about the microbiota and I had no idea that mushrooms and factories very little in the literature about this, about the effect on our gastrointestinal health, okay, through mushrooms, we'll eventually get to that. Before we do that, we got to talk the mushrooms, the beautiful mushroom that everybody thinks about which is the fungi. The actual thing is, this right here is the cap. Mm hmm. Underneath the cap, you've got these gills underneath that you've turned a mushroom over and seeing the little lines that are there. And then below that is the is the basically the stock or the stem. And then beneath that you have the mycelium. What you'll learn if you watch fantastic fungi is that it's all about the mycelium, this that we eat that we think are mushrooms. This is basically a sexual origin, as they call it, fruiting fruiting. It's the fruiting body. underneath those gills right through here is where all the spores are made. And I remember what was his name that we had in the podcast that knew everything about mushrooms. Oh,that was early on.Cooper Reed Cooper read, talked about it like it just flowed off his tongue and I was like, what's he talking about? He used the word gills spores mycelium and I'm like what? Well, the mycelium is fascinating because that's basically without the mycelium. We don't exist. The mycelium is it's so cool, just watch fantastic fungi. But we're going to talk about the fruiting body right here. Because this is what we know more about mushrooms about what's going on. underneath here are the spores. They release trillions and trillions of spores, you actually breathe them in. Whether you know it or not all the time. We live in harmony with this organism. It's not a plant. It's not an animal somewhere in between. and we exist because of this. Yep. And I had no idea that this fruiting body is so good for you in so many different ways. So that's what I want to talk about.Let's do it.Alright, from a nutritional standpoint, you were we were working today and you're like you know, I hear all this stuff people throw out names and you hear things and gnocchi should tacky and you know, criminy and oyster and all these other names of mushrooms are some really cool names also Reishi Reishi lion's mane, but then there's like, I mean, just really wild ones. If you watch the Netflix special, he just starts rattling off purple headed dragons and things like that. It's there's over, I'm gonna get it wrong. I'm gonna get all this wrong, but 1.5 million different species that we've identified.I do not know that. It'slike some crazy number like way more than plants and everything. So from a nutritional standpoint, that's what I want to talk about today. And because we don't want to have a few other experts on to discuss some of these other aspects, but I've always kind of viewed mushrooms as just this filler that you just put into soups. Yeah. Or Whatever it is you want to do salads, it just adds a little bit of texture to things. So I pulled the nutritional facts of a few mushrooms very, very common ones, brown mushrooms, also known as crimini mushrooms. total fat is zero, total cholesterol is zero. Total carbohydrates is four grams. Protein is two grams. And the fiber content is point five grams, which is 2%. So four grams carbohydrates, but point five of it is fiber. Then you go to pataky mushrooms, which you'll find in Asian food all the time. And same thing about cholesterol and fat. That's the same process. This one also has two grams of fiber 12 grams of carbohydrates. And then oysters, oyster mushrooms, it's got two grams of fiber as well protein three grams. Now the aspect which I was unaware of, is the incredible micronutrients in it, it's one of the only ways to get vitamin D. Outside of Sunlight, sunlight, wow, it has a significant amount of selenium. In fact, a small serving of crimini mushrooms which would be like five small mushrooms is 31% of your daily Selenium that you need. And we have a hard time getting Selenium in our diets. That's actually why I eat like a Brazil nut three times a week just a pecans, yeah, to try and get that in. And then other nutrients like copper that you don't think of zinc, potassium, thymine. All of these things, and even iron are in slightly different, very slightly different concentrations of these different mushrooms, they're all slightly off. But the micronutrient component of this is incredible. Copper is one that I don't really pay much attention to. But then I realized, well, it's part of a cofactor in a lot of different things in your body it is. And so that is the mushroom content, or some of the nutritional values of some of the more common mushrooms. So if you're going to take these mushrooms, make a stir fry or a soup out of it, all you got to do is put five of these mushrooms, five of each kind into whatever it is. And what you're going to end up with is a total of 100 calories, no fat or cholesterol 4.5 grams of fiber. So that's 70% of the fiber that you need in a in in your whole day. six grams of protein. So for me 200 pounds, somewhere around point eight grams per kilogram, so slightly north of 70 grams of protein, I get six grams just in the mushrooms nice. And that's kind of what I aim for is around 72. But the real key to these are the micronutrients. It's like 64% of your daily Selenium 64% of your daily selenium, a ton of vitamin D and a lot of B vitamins that I didn't talk about before, along with copper, like we're talking about. Okay. So learning about this. We had a little bit before we started the show we Diego couldn't resist honestly, what we did is we made a basically it's kind of I don't know what would you call it a saute of. Number one, ittastes incredible.So with this in this, let's let's call the stir fry. In this stir fry, there is half a pound of grass fed grass finished meat, we have half a bag of spinach. There's those mushrooms that we discussed in those ratios. And what this comes out to is that with the grass fed meat, the spinach, and this doesn't include the nutrients from the onions and the other things to add a little bit of flavor onion, garlic, the zucchini, you're going to end up with 30 grams of protein, you're going to have 6.3 grams of fiber. Well I should break it down the meat is 30 grams of protein, you add the spinach, that's 6.3 grams of fiber, eight grams of protein and 50% of your potassium. So you put the mushrooms end with this and this little bowl here, which we're gonna take a bite of altogether is the bowl with a little bit bigger when we started. It's 500 calories, 11 grams of fiber 45 grams of protein and like 90% of the micronutrients that you would need in a day. Mushrooms, spinach meat, so take a little bite here.It is quite tasty. I'm gonna let him bite so that you're not just sitting in silence while we chop. But kids has a little bit of hot sauce on the top which I had some earlier with it and it's also delicious. But all I can say is it's fantastic. And I'm a creature of habit I can easily see myself doing thisevery day. So I would like to take credit for this. All I did is add the mushrooms but there are this is kind of a Kind of a staple in the bodybuilding world I didn't realize I started reading about this is what people will do this is they'll put spinach and meat. And they will use this for the whole week because then you add the mushrooms and now you've got the micronutrients. This is essentially a two bowls of this and you're done with all the protein that you need, all the micronutrients that you need and all the fiber that you actually need.So and to be fair, I would say for some eating mushrooms sometimes is an acquired taste. And I don't I don't know that feeling because I don't remember a time of not liking mushrooms. But I would say that this is this is a dish that I would say is not heavy and mushroom flavor. When you when you agree like the way that it's kind of salted and put together definitelyit's almost hard to distinguish what is mushroom? Because they're so finely chopped. What is mushroom? And what is me every minute. You asked meto kind of describe what are the and then you throughout the stir fry. But it's almost kind of like a super healthy stroganoff. It's kind of like a beef. stroganoff taste. Yeah, without strong mushroom tastes at all. AndI mean, I don't know, I think it's delicious. If I were to sit there if you're trying to watch your weight, and want to make sure that you eat healthy or even if people with intestinal problems. A lot of people can't handle gluten and a lot of people can't handle some some starches, which can result because of what we work in CBOE IVs. That can make it worse. This can be a very tolerable thing. And one of the things I really like about it is that you can get your body used to a certain thing every day. Yeah. And then you can start expanding your diet a little bit.Yeah, I mean, it's really good. It's very, very clean. Like it's the the fullness that you get just from the the natural fat and protein that's in there is is noticeable. So you, you probably won't overeat it, you'll feel satisfied, and you won't have a letdown because there's not a bunch of high carb sugar content inside.So let's talk about that. Why is this so satiating? Well, in on the Huberman lab, he talks about how your body your vagus nerve, actually sends an immediate signal that when it has reached a appropriate fat and amino acid content, that's the key here. So when you have a food that has a high amino acid content, and then in addition to the micronutrients, there is a immediate signal that sends to your brain and it turns on a hormone called leptin, leptin tells you that you're full, it's the exact opposite that happens in the food industry, which very highly processed packaged foods, they purposely make it with the emulsifiers, that it actually with the most fibers that make it shelf stable, but the emulsifiers actually do micro damage to that nerve. And that signal gets lost. So instead of turning on the unfold hormone, it turns on the I'm not getting enough nutrients called ghrelin, and you get hungrier, which is why you can eat a whole bag of Fritos or whatever your whatever, your crappy chip crappy chips or anything. Yeah, they the food industry hires PhDs, to figure out how to make it so that you will eat more of what they're making. If you're still hungry, you're still buying more products, because you're rifling through whatever they just sold you. So really simple way if you're fighting, I'm not gonna get so far as saying you're fighting food addiction, because I think that's a whole separate deal. But if you are somebody that fights cravings, a really good idea is to have something like this on hand, eat a cup of it, and then wait 15 minutes, then open up whatever device that you feel necessary that you have to do, because you're gonna end up eating less of it, because you've already turned on this hormone that says we've had enough.Yeah, I agree. It makes sense. I mean, quite honestly, when I was much younger and coming out of college, I didn't have the best eating habits. I would say I was I was falling into the pattern of being an overeater because I wasn't satiated. What wasthat crap that you would you would eat like a Yoo hoo. WhenI was in college, yeah, it was called a milk jug. milk jug and a fried pie. I can't believemill, chugging fried pie and now we're talkingabout chugging a five pie or sometimes I get a package ding dongs. Was that was the pinnacle health.So the package ding dongs are there to make you eat more ding dongs that is for sure. And the nutritional value is essentially that's that So today, we were you were like we're gonna talk mushrooms. I'm like yeah, I want to talk mushrooms. let's get let's get into this. And first thing you said is you know, I hear these names, but I don't Is there any science on this? Or is this just people saying oh, you should eat Reishi or Lion's Mane or, or whatever. I think Chagos is another one that people always talk about in all these different ones. corta seps as one.Sure. And how are we quantifying how I quote Find what we're measuring, and how do we qualify that the data is real. And it's we do that a lot.So it fit in perfect. I'm so glad that you asked that today, because one of the reasons why I wanted to do this particular topic is because a study just came out not too long ago, like a few weeks ago, on in the Journal of functional foods, and the title of the study is the role of dietary edible mushrooms in the modulation of gut microbiota, right in our wheelhouse. Definitely. So how do these mushrooms affect your gastrointestinal tract? And how do they affect your microbiome? So that's what we're going to cover today. And it's really cool, because I learned a lot. They they're so powerful. And I mentioned earlier how we pulled the lid off of polyphenols. There are so many similarities in a different lane. Nice. So we talked so much, we've got so many episodes where we talk about the innate immune system, we talked about the adaptive immune system. In relation to polyphenols, we talked about the how the polyphenols will increase the diversity of your microbiome, how polyphenols get broken down into post biotic, anti inflammatory, anti aging products. And this is all based on the science of these PhDs who've shared with us their brilliant work, right? This is when I started reading this, I'm like, Oh my gosh, they're saying something so similar by a different mechanism. So let's just jump right in. This is a super sciency article. So I'm, if I get too weird with it, you know, dumb it down and come back because it's, it's really complex. It's equally complex as the first time we were discussing the policy and also Yeah, if you look back, we did an episode with Sylvia, Sylvia Molino, and her research was just insane. It talked about how she took these complex polyphenols that are in our trunk to the kabocha in the horse chestnut, and she showed that they get broken down into smaller phenolic compounds like ecgc, which is green tea extract and light course attend and these different things. They didn't get into how the mushrooms do this, but I suspect it would be something quite similar. Yeah, through a different arm because these aren't polyphenolic compounds, the same ones that we're talking we'd have to find a fungus Silvia, we would have to find a fungal equivalent of Silvia correct. So it's very sciency. I'm gonna try to cover just some highlights of certain types of mushrooms, some of the more common ones that you may have heard of, and they're it's very complex, but these mushrooms have a wide range of constituents like things called glycoproteins polysaccharides phenolic compounds, and tri terpenes. Okay, so we're talking about terpenes when we're talking about CBD and cannabis and things. Yeah. Alright, so the first one that they covered was Reishi. Now Reishi has been well known for its anti inflammatory, anti tumor, something I didn't know acetylcholine esterase inhibition. So we talked about that when we looked at the the the episode with Angie, what was the title of that one? Anyways, when we talk about dysautonomia, acetylcholine has a big role. If you read biohack your brain she's got supplements to increase your acetylcholine, they do that by decreasing acetylcholine, esterase. And ratio has significant anti allergic properties. So what these team of scientists did, and this is out of China, where mushrooms have been used for ever, so it's it's more widely accepted that that is a functional food. These guys summarize that Reishi influences the gut microbiota by improving the intestinal barrier, okay, improving the intestinal barrier function, increasing microbial diversity. And it does a shift where it reverses bad bacteria and increases good bacteria very specifically, Reishi consistently would decrease bacteroides and increase from from from acuities for MC teas anyways, for me, Curtis, remember, I'm gonna mispronounce it might get all over me for doing the the reservatrol versus resveratrol. So let's just assume that I mispronounce a few things once in a while. Alright. So what it does, by doing that is that significantly increases the short chain fatty acids and anti inflammatory post biotics. They don't describe it as that what they do describe is molecules are then converted from the polysaccharides into anti inflammatory constituents also, they're describing post biotics while using the term. So all of these things in the literature has been shown to help with sugar control, lipid control, weight management and immune regulation. So when you said earlier, is there any data on these guys that's what they did in this article, they summarize the data on Reishi and showed this is what it's used for. This is how it does that. And this is why it helps with sugar weight management lift an immune regulation.Now well, I mean, you can even stop with this it'll Coleen be able to increase by stopping acetylcholine esterase. And that would be a benefit even by itself.So that's Reishi. Lion's Mane is another super common one that you'll find in supplements. It's one of the more popular supplements for mushrooms. And it's mostly due to lion's mane. Some studies were shown, I think it was in the 90s. That Lion's Mane can actually help with nerve regeneration. So it's been used a lot in the neurology world. And the reason is, is they believe that the beta glucans that are in lion's mane, show an anti aging and neuronal regeneration property, the prebiotic component of the lion's mane has been shown to have a positive influence in changing the pH in the colon, which increases the ability of other bacteria to produce butyrate. And in inflammatory bowel disease models, ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease. It decreased the inflammatory cytokines intraluminal, that have been shown to cause the damage and we've talked a lot about cytokines and a ton about cytokines. While once again, it improves the microbial diversity. And specifically, it has been shown to control the amount of Clostridium difficile that has been produced c diff is something really bad. If you don't know what it is good. If you know what it is. I'm sorry, you probably had it. That usually takes place when your microbial diversity gets shrunk down due to antibiotics. And then the C diff takes off unchecked. Now studies also show that Lion's Mane proteins are similar to immunoglobulins, like ag G. So structurally, these proteins look a lot like well, you might know it as SBI or colostrum. That's the immunoglobulins. And so those are the things that your body produces to help fight infections. Correct. So it looks like that. And this can result in this anti allergy anti tumor effect. And so there's so many studies going on with Lion's Mane right now. Not so much in the Western world. But there's a lot of studies going on in the Eastern medicine world looking at that. I mentioned shittaka earlier, do you have something to say about life? I wasgonna say I mean, we've all young gone in to and both from Reishi to lion's mane, there's a little crossover. And when you mentioned neurogenesis possible neurogenesis with lion's mane, it reminds me there's there are other mushrooms, too, that we're not going to cover today.Oh, no, no, no, we're gonna cover all of them. We only have 1 million for a really long episode. But it's cool though, just like just like traditional plants that we that we're that we're used to talking about, there's going to be some crossover and benefit from the way that certain fungi performs. I guess what I'm trying to say because there are other neurogenic or Yeah, neurogenic properties of other mushrooms or other acetylcholine boosters and other mushrooms. Anyway, I just kind of point that out there. There's absolutely complimentary aspect. And they kind of get into that in the fantastic fungi about how there's this symbiotic, sometimes competing, depending on what needs to be done. Some mushrooms will augment each other, some mushrooms will repel others. And this is kind of what it's showing that from a nutritional value these things do kind of the same thing in a slightly different way. Yeah, well, they're all kind of doing it. Like for instance, shotoku mushroom in colon studies, is a potent anti inflammatory specifically, the studies that they referenced, it showed that it decreased interleukin six, TNF alpha inducible nitric oxide, and we know that these are all things we've talked about in prior episodes, usually related to polyphenols and Cox two, while it increases the anti inflammatory cytokine called interleukin 10. Very similar to what the polyphenols have been shown to do, they've just been studied a little bit more over here.So Cox two just as a reference, if you've ever taken aspirin or anything similar to aspirin, you're, you're you're basically blocking coxy with that this is a this is nature's way of at least injecting itself into stopping that kind of inflammatory process.Exactly. So she Taki also, what's really cool about photography is that the studies have focused on its effect on the brain. More specifically, multiple studies have shown that it can help with anxiety and depression. Now this is through something that you're very familiar with. It increases BDNF brain derived neurotrophic factor. Yeah, brain derived neurotrophic factor and decreases something else. You're very familiar with. Nf Kappa beta?Oh, yeah. Are you talking about those two?So these so NF Kappa beta is like the first domino that starts a whole process of inflammation. And if that's always being tipped, that's chronic inflammation. BDNF is a Protein mood says it's a factor. So let's just call it a protein. Yeah. So it's a protein that crosses the blood blood brain barrier, and helps decrease inflammation in the brain and helps clear out toxic aspects of it. So BDNF is one of the reasons that have been shown that eating a diet high in polyphenols increases your BDNF. Now we've got a shotoku mushroom here that actually has been shown to do something similar. That's super cool. It's really wild. Now as well, it increases nerve growth factor. So Dr. philomela will love this because she has a whole section in her book about nerve growth factor, and increases neurogenesis in the hippocampus. In biohack. Your brain she explains what the hippocampus does, and how important it is and how relevant it is to memory. And how you can regrow these nerves and people didn't think that we could forever I was taught in med school once you once a nerve dies, you're done.So what are we dealing with today with our aging population increase in incidence of dementia? So possibly an early intervention with shotoku mushrooms could be could be something that could be arming your body to help that.Yeah. The one another one that they discussed, which I'm unfamiliar with, but it was listed in this nutritional roundup that I found on mushrooms, it's called my Taki. Otherwise known as hen of the woods. You've heard of Yeah,all of the time. My dad often talked about my turkey. And I always knew he was talking about his hand that was always stuckin the woods. While he named his hand, my talkie.Yeah, well, he didn't want it to be your talking. So yeah, something like that. Terrible, stupid joke. Really, youknow what? It's okay. You don't have Mac around to listen to your bad dad jokes. It's okay. You can call me out mostly just by complete disinterest. So in other words, your dad's talkie. Yeah, show that it was it's it's Richard and phenolic compounds. So it actually has some of these problems. Not the ones we talked about ones that I've never heard of, but they're phenolic compounds nonetheless. And it has high levels of these beta glucans, which are very unique to cell walls, but it's the beta glucans that make these mushrooms functional foods. Studies have shown that has an increased and profound effect on increasing anti inflammatory microbial species. So basically, they show that it will increase the species of your microbiome, which will keep bad bacteria in check, right? It's kind of that whole yin and yang type thing. And increases short chain fatty acids producing species of bacteria. So it was really cool about the my Taki is that it seems to focus more on the surrounding environment of bacteria, so that these other mushrooms can let those bacteria break them down into good things. So it's all about signaling and getting the bacteria to grow, kind of like we talked about with spore based biotics, where they signal to have more of these less of these, it's it's trying to manipulate this stuff after after we get further and further into it, trying to say, oh, we're going to turn this into a drug. So it does this one thing, you start realizing this is way more complex than we could ever single handedly manipulate 100%. So basically, it still works as a prebiotic, and it helps produce all these other beneficial bacteria. So we're not actually going to cover the other 1,000,499 94 or whatever we did. But to summarize, these were the only ones that they actually looked at in this article, because the articles thick and they went into tremendous detail in each one. But to summarize it, edible mushrooms like this have a very positive effect on regulating dysbiosis. So your microbiome, maintaining the balance of good to bad bacteria ratios, increasing short chain fatty acids, specifically butyrate. The searching fatty acids result in all kinds of benefits across your body, including blood sugar control, blood pressure control, weight management, and brain health all of this together. So now, if you think about this, these mushrooms work different than the large stable polyphenols, like I was saying, but there's a lot of overlap.Sure. So it's a compliment. It's a compliment.I'm starting to see this beautiful Venn diagram. So our food right here, amino acids in the meat. We've got a bunch of polyphenols, colorful plate being in there with the spinach and the zucchini and then all those mushrooms are in here. That is a Super Bowl.Yeah. And it's it's super good. Period.So that is our first take on mushrooms. We've never done a mushroom episode.Now we haven't and I'm just gonna go ahead and reveal it. We've got a series of some pretty awesome guests lined up to come in and really kind of school us on some really cool deep aspects of mushrooms, the applications, how to find out what to look for If you're utilizing mushrooms to improve gut health are similar.So this whole mycology world is really neat once you start showing a little interest. There were, I mean, we've got people were emailing people right now like I would love to come on the show, can we talk about this? I'm like, wow, that's wild loved fun, eventually work our way through to whatever. And if you guys have any things you want to find out, like, you know, talk about what the How would you go about? What's the best way to things? I'm thinking about? What's the best way to learn how to find mushrooms in the wild, what's the best way? What are the best supplements that would, you know, augment if I'm trying to achieve certain things? What are the side effects? Yeah, so we've got a great natural path, who's dealt with this a lot uses mushrooms as a consultant. And he goes, I would really like to talk about some of the cons because all you hear is, you know, the pros. And that's great. Also, I want to get into that we've got all kinds of stuff. I thinkit's really cool that we're catching up on this subject matter, too, because actually, when we did have Cooper on it was fascinating. And at the same time, I felt just really inadequate to keep up on the subject matter because he was he was a completely different country. And we were stuck here going, I'm not sure I'm following every single thing that he's saying. Butall the way just from him saying, remember, it's the mycelium. It's the mycelium, and I know we're alive at the time. So it's likeyeah, it was it was like that. And since that time, we've we've actually were inspired by Cooper to kind of really start digging in deep, and it's paid off. And it's, I'm excited to have the next two, maybe even three guests. Join us here.I mean, eventually, if I can talk you into it, I want you to get another pig and we're gonna go truffle hunting.Oh, can we truffle hunt here? I don't know. That that's what we're gonna have. We're gonna have a truffle expert. Join our Yeah, I don't really I don't know enough aboutI mean, the way I see it, if you're if you're thinking about this, you're like, Okay, I've never really thought about mushrooms. If you're like me, never really thought about mushrooms. Now I'm realizing, if I've got my poly phenol ring here, and I know quite a bit about the endocannabinoid system over here, you need to fill that in. And now we're going to bring into third circle to form this Venn diagram kind of feels like they all augment each other in different ways in synergistic ways.Definitely, yeah, no, it makes sense. The The proof is in the pudding. I think that the choosing the right things to complement what you eat and how you live your lifestyle, of course, still getting good sleep. But what's crazy is when you eat right, you select the right kinds of foods to eat, sleep actually becomes easier. functioning throughout the day, becoming more productive becomes easier,for sure. And even when we've met with other experts, like the owners of four sigmatic and stuff, I didn't know what to ask. Yeah,yeah, that actually that's that was really funny also, because we, we had just had Cooper on the show by the time we met Marcus. And I can remember I sit there Go, man, this is fantastic. What do we say to him?Well, because we've heard we've heard all these people like like for SIG Matic for SIG Matic did a great job of advertising on different podcasts.Yeah. But then, but they brought valuein doing it. Yes. 100%. And then I'll even hear Rogen talk about different, you know, defenders, there's mushroom coffees, and all this other stuff. This is the stuff I want to know. Yeah. Like they want to, like this is the stuff that you say, just go Do you want to improve your microbial diversity? Do you want to decrease inflammatory markers? That's not making a claim? Now, that's referencing studies that have been done? And I'm like, Well, yeah, I do. Yeah. So that makes sense. I'm going to start using so grass fed meat. Bag of fresh spinach, some spices, onion, zucchini, garlic, zucchini. And then really, every any mushroom you can get your hands on. Yeah, it adds bulk and adds micronutrients and picks that up and you got yourself several meals,maybe pretty soon and I don't think we'll have it in time for production. We should throw the the recipe of and one of the show notes or something like that. Just to get some feedback on what people think of it.Yeah, and you know what we'll do we'll hit up Gabrielle Lyon. Who, who's she's a great, brilliant doctor. I heard her on cell dinos podcast, and then her and I were talking one time where I was like, Hey, man, I heard you talk about that. She does this but without the mushroomsnow okay. She's a bodybuilder.She's bodybuilder in great shape. And yeah, so yeah, if I can just take the time to do this. It's just a just I love it. It tastes so good.It does taste very good.And it's got the fiber in it and it's got the protein content and the micronutrients once again the fiber fiber fiber we do not get enough fiber in our dietsnow now and this this is an easy way to make italmost like a sneaky way to make it happen. It's like the anti food industry meals like Haha, yeah, you think it tastes good? You're not getting anything out of it.You don't have to keep buying anything from you. Yeah. Well, that's gonna be it for that's going To be all for episode number 60. Be sure and tune in for our follow ups like and shared kin, anything to add.Yeah, so we're really gaining some traction right now and having some fun, it would really mean a lot. If everyone just go to iTunes and like it, share it. Make some watches on YouTube because that getting some traction, there's a big deal. At Spotify, we're having some great guests lined up. And it's because we're getting a little attraction and I learned a lot from this. I love the questions that we get. So fire him our way, and we can help out. I know somebody is gonna ask, Well, wait a minute, I thought you're gonna talk about mushrooms. You didn't say anything about hallucinations or anything like that? No, no,they are some of the 1.5 million that we haven't gotten to. Yeah,just one of the 1.5 million. That's all y'all Great Day.We'll see y'all soon. Have a great one episode60 stay safe.

Show NotesEpisode 5 - The Women of AlexandriaRaya and Sakina have become legends in Egypt, infamous for being the sisters who murdered the sex workers of Alexandria and burying them underneath their homes. Parents will no longer give their children the names “Raya” and “Sakina,” fearing they are cursed. Egyptians tell misbehaving children that the sisters will come for them if they don't do as they're told. But do the sisters deserve this infamy? And if they don't, then who were the real serial killers of Alexandria in 1920?Sources:Al-Hefnawy, Marwa. “Stinging Sisters.” Arab News. Saudi Research & Publishing Company, May 31, 2007. https://www.arabnews.com/node/299048. Awad, Mohamed. “The Metamorphosis of Mansheyah.” Edited by Hannah Davis Taieb and Kenneth Brown. Alexandria in Egypt, 1996. Bizawe, Eyal Sagui. “Sisters Without Mercy: Behind Egypt's Most Infamous Murder Case.” Haaretz. Haaretz Daily Newspaper, December 27, 2014. https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-sisters-without-mercy-1.5352259. Chiti, Elena. “Building a National Case in Interwar Egypt: Raya and Sakina's Crimes through the Pages of Al-Ahrām (Fall 1920).” History Compass, February 15, 2020. Esquire Staff. “New Series 'The Alexandria Killings' to Profile Egypt's Most Notorious Serial Killers.” Esquire Middle East. ITP Media Group, April 20, 2021. https://www.esquireme.com/content/52037-egypts-most-notorious-serial-killers-raya-and-sakina-tv-series-the-alexandria-killings. Mahmoud, Rasha. “Alexandria's France Street Still Living in Its Golden Age.” Al-Monitor. Al-Monitor, November 2, 2017. https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2017/11/france-st-reflects-alexandias-rich-heritage.htm. Moger, Robin. “An Excerpt from the Men of Raya and Sakina.” Jadaliyya. Jadaliyya, May 4, 2020. https://www.jadaliyya.com/Details/41064. Mustafa, Marie. “'Raya We Sakina Min Tani' Launches on Aug. 13 in Alexandria.” Egypt Today, August 14, 2019. https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/4/73863/Raya-we-Sakina-min-tani-launches-on-Aug-13-in. Rizk, Yunan Labib. “The Women Killers.” Al-Ahram Weekly, no. 434 (June 1999). St. Estephe. “Raya & Sekina Aly Hammam, Egyptian Serial Killing Sisters - 1920.” Unknown Gender History, February 8, 2015. https://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/09/raya-sakina-ablel-al-egyptian-serial.html. Takla, Nefertiti Mary. “Murder in Alexandria: The Gender, Sexual and Class Politics of Criminality in Egypt, 1914 - 1921,” 2016. “THE FITUWA: SALAH EISSA'S RAYA AND SAKINA IN ROBIN MOGER'S TRANSLATION.” The Sultan's Seal, February 3, 2018. https://sultansseal.com/2018/02/03/the-fituwa-salah-eissas-raya-and-sakina-in-robin-mogers-translation/. Music: Dellasera by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com

Eric Rieger  0:00  Hello gut check project fans and KB MD Health family. I hope you're having a great day. It's your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's Episode 59. And we have an awesome guest. This is Dr. Kristen Willeumier. She is a neuroscientist. That's right. a neuroscientist. She has groundbait goodness can talk groundbreaking, science driven plan for revitalising nourishing and rejuvenating your most essential asset, your brain. And she is the author of biohack your brain how to boost cognitive health, performance and power. It's essentially the first book to outline a strategy for COVID long hollers including those dealing with neurological issues. So you can see this is going to be an incredible episode. Let's get to our sponsors. Of course, it's artron to go to artron to calm or easy enough. Just go to love my tummy, calm and get your daily polyphenols. Guess what? This neuroscientist Dr. Wilma? Yeah, she says it's a great idea to do it for your brain. Also, we're not even making it up. So head to love my tummy, calm, pick up your own artron to today, not just for yourself, but for your family for your kids. Get them on it, protect them, given the polyphenols that they need daily artron to love nighttime e.com and of course, you can get Incredible Food unrefined bakery.com That's correct, unrefined bakery.com get 20% off of your entire first order. Just by using code, get check. That's the show that you're listening to get check 20% off your entire first order from unrefined bakery. It's incredible food. It's doesn't matter if you're keto, paleo, gluten free. And you're like me, I don't know if I can ever have an awesome tasting muffin again. Guess what they have developed incredible food at unrefined bakery. I don't know why I'm giving y'all such weird pauses in between zone my words, I guess because I'm looking at my notes and we're falling down regardless. last not least go to KB Md health.com kB Md health.com and use code GCP to take 20% off of any order, anytime. from Dr. Chris Brown's CBD or his combo signature packages, you can take 20% off of any order at any time at KB MD health calm. So just so you know is we had an episode number 59. We do an intro several minutes into a discussion with Dr. Willa Meyer. We started recording and just didn't want to lose some of the exchange that we had at the very beginning. So without further ado, here's Episode 59. With Dr. Kristen, will, Mr. neuroscientist.Unknown Speaker  3:10  Oh my god, I had a patient last night who has ulcerative colitis and fainted and just got sent to the hospital. So she's in the hospital as we speak. Her colon is horrific. her brain. When I imaged it, it's it is off the charts anxiety. And so she's sort of the perfect illustration of, you know, the gut brain connection. And was it her anxiety that led to you know, the issues with a colon in the gut? I think so. Because she's very lean and fit and thin and healthy. But I said to her last night, I'm like you need to stay in the hospital, because she didn't she didn't want to stay but she fainted. And her her colon and her. It is it is a scary, you know situation that she's going through and and then I have a patient when I found out about your supplement, who he has horrible gas and bloating. I'm talking horrific. And he follows a lot of the dietary and nutraceutical recommendations. I mean, I've he's been a patient for my god almost a decade. But I'm learning about yourself and I'm like, wait, he needs to try this. So, you know, I was curious about the efficacy and yeah, I mean, I hear I'm like oh, I have questions for you.Ken Brown  4:32  Oh yeah, we'll send you will send you our resorts and all that stuff. And yeah, the whole backstory of that what's really hilarious is because I'm I was going to do the same thing to you. Okay, because I am giving a talk to the ataxia society this Saturday. Oh, wow. I had off the record. I had sort of forgot that I committed to it and yeah, happens to be the person that started this is a very good friend of mine actually was by a med school roommate. That She allowed her to. And so her why now in life is yes, try and help those that have a taxi. And so that's why I applaud her. It's not to let you know it's a small population of people, but it's, you know, horrific for people who are only present. But the beauty is because of your book when talking about the total volume of the cerebellum versus having 50% of the neurons. So the whole talk I'm, I'm, if you don't mind, I wanted to ask before I do this, I would like to quote you in the book and sure, do some stuff and put it in the talk specifically, I would love for sure your supplements and your brain health diet and all that other stuff,Unknown Speaker  5:43  I would be honoured. And the beautiful thing about the book, you know, sometimes people ask me why I wrote it. It's like, you know, there's brain health books out there there. People know about supplements, you can go on the internet, but I am, I am blown away by what I have seen using neuroimaging. So it's like the book was really guided by what we've seen clinically with imaging. And as you saw, when you read in the book, you There was a time I didn't believe in supplements, like, Oh, my God, these really weren't yet right there. Right. Yeah. It's, it's, it's amazing. So I think, you know, probably both you and I, when you're in the profession, and you actually, you can look up all the research papers in the world. But when you see the changes in patients, and you see it, the measurable changes, whether it's imaging or whether it's your labs that you do you know, I'm a huge fan, so So, yes, please go quote, I'm happy to help you, you can email me if you have any questions.Ken Brown  6:49  I love that. Because I think that when I read your book, I was like, holy cow, we are speaking the same language here. Yeah. And the whole gut brain thing. And you know, what we should do is what that will just flow into this. Because Yeah, I think you're giving away a lot already kind of talking about everything. So here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna Eric introduce you, but the podcast actually started about six minutes ago. Perfect. So if you're tuning in now, rewind it and do this. SoEric Rieger  7:23  a very late introduction. This is taken away, Eric. Thank you. And this is episode number 59 of the gut check project. And if you've tuned in now, you've heard an awesome guest. This is Dr. Kristen Willem your she is a neuroscientist and she created this awesome book that that will actually she wrote this awesome book that Browns been holding up here. This is biohack your brain.Ken Brown  7:49  Yay. And look how much handsomer I am with the book over my face. I love it. Okay, yeah. colour. Colour coordinated to the book as well, which I love.Eric Rieger  8:05  Definitely, he definitely has. And basically this is biohack your brain and it's how to boost cognitive health performance and power. The first book to outline a strategy for COVID long hauls, including those dealing with neurological issues, cognitive decline, and brain fog. For years. Dr. William year has worked alongside with Dr. Daniel Amen. Rahman. Amen. Amen. who published over 30 books 70 articles just to just to prove the importance of brain health. Dr. Christian, William, your thank you so much for joining us on the gundry project. And I mean, what an awesome this is the probably one of the most unique coolest kickoffs of any podcast we've had yet. Amen. Amen. Amen.Unknown Speaker  8:52  Well, well, first of all, thank you, too, both of you for inviting me to come on the podcast. I love talking to all things brain health, and gut health. And truth be told, I am a huge fan of gut health. I think brain health begins in the gut and it begins with every single item of food that you are putting into your mouth. Now, Eric gave a lovely introduction and I I should also share with your listening audience. So my background, I was the director of research for psychiatric clinic, outpatient psychiatric clinic, and I ran their clinical neuro imaging department. And so I have seen 1000s of brain scans are, by the time I left the clinic, we had over 130,000 scans. Why I love taking care of your gut and gut health is in psychiatry. One of the foundational principles we have whether we're addressing ATD ADHD, autism, anxiety, depression, OCD, PTSD, by Polar issues, the first thing we have to do is work on the eating patterns. What are the things that you are putting in your mouth? Because a lot of these psychiatric issues have inflammatory components. And where does inflammation start? in the gut? Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That's right. So it's really such a pleasure to come here and speak with experts today, you know, in this field, and we can have a nice sort of melding of the minds of things that you've done things that we've done to really help support people's long term health.Eric Rieger  10:35  Well, I was fired up whenever can ask if I mean, we always talk about guests we're going to bring on in. And we've been really fortunate to have some some awesome ones. But essentially, when he brought up your name, we began to delve into it the we've talked about gut brain access for real really since episode one.Ken Brown  10:54  Yeah, it's just I thinkEric Rieger  10:57  it's Cornerstone as aKen Brown  10:58  gastroenterologist. So Alright, so let me tell you a little bit about how I found you. Oh, wait, love. Okay, please. Oh, my family is a tennis family. But and I mean, like tennis family like the family is in Florida right now playing and clay court nationals, I got both my daughter and my son doing it. And we got into this huge discussion with Naomi Osaka and the French Open, said that she was going to just sit out because the anxiety of doing the press conferences and all this stuff. So it became it became a dinner table discussion with my family, because the pressures that go on with the individual sports and this and that, and so I like I do, I'm like, oh, man, I gotta like help my kids. So let's up. How do I biohack sports performance and a PDF of somebody that did this interview with the Montana State Bobcat magazine. Like, this is a great article, and I didn't read your name until the very end, you know, you know, the interview performed by Kristen Wilmore. And I was like, Who is that? look you up and I'm like, holy cow. She's got a book called biohack. Your brain just came out. I'm all about edit all about working with professional athletes. And so then that turned into I actually have a very close friend Jr, who played for the San Francisco 40 Niners for 12 years and was, was the NFL player representative for CTE for a few years. And he's still works with Steve Young, and he had his he had his zoom 50th birthday party not too long ago, and the whole, there was like 40 people on there, and it was just Hall of Famers all over. So I called Jr. And I was like, dude, you should have done this whole aim. inclement thing. And oh, yeah,Unknown Speaker  12:43  yeah. It's I'm still taking care of football players from I started back in 2009. You know, where we did our work with the first 100 players. But my God, we've had hundreds of players come in, and I've watched them over the course of time, some of them are getting better. Now, unfortunately, if you play collision based sport, and you don't really proactively take care of your brain health, you know, some of them now have ALS, Alzheimer's disease at younger ages than we see in the general population. So we start to expect to see these diseases of ageing and your sixth decade of life, seventh decade of life, but in the professional athletes, we're seeing them in their fifth decade of life. And the reason why it's not surprising and this sort of goes into my background as a neurobiologist was sort of the first 10 years of my career, I'm in the academic setting. And I'm a neurobiologist, studying things at the level of the single cell and working in Parkinson's and understanding how neurons communicate with one another, and also having a great concept of synaptic plasticity, right. We read about it in the literature, but I've actually watched my beautiful neurons make contacts with their neighbours, it's, it's really extraordinary when you have the the perspective of what synaptic plasticity is, and and the ability of these beautiful neurons, one single neuron in our central nervous system can make between 10,000 to 40,000 connections. And that's 86 billion neurons we have.Ken Brown  14:18  I just want to clarify one thing. So like when you we hear about this like, and there's been a lot of discussion about neuroplasticity. Huberman has his podcast and people are talking about it. Could you just define that?Unknown Speaker  14:31  Yeah, neural plasticity is just the ability of a neuron to make additional connections with its neighbours. So what As I was saying, one neuron can extend a branch out dentre and dendritic branch out and connect with other neurons. And the way that we sort of increase our brain capacity over time is to be able to make as many of those connections as we can. This is why as we get older, this concept of synaptic play density or neuro plasticity is just the ability of, again, a single neuron to continue making branches. And how does that happen? That happens when we learn new information. That's why it's so important to continue to learn as we age, because that's how we grow these connections. Other ways to grow new connections is through exercise. But I like the new learning piece. Because the one thing that people don't realise, and I know I tell a lot of these fun little I call them fun facts, but they're really important. Because the brain reaches full maturity around the age of 2530. After the age of 40, our brain volume, right starts to decrease about 5% per decade. So your brain volume can get smaller. And you know, that's one thing that could concern people, but it the synaptic plasticity can continue on throughout life. So that's why, you know, there's certain interventions we can do to help maintain brain volume, which is where the exercise is important. omega three fatty acids are really important. And then there's things we can do to help maintain synaptic plasticity so that we retain our memories, you know, and we have the ability to live and be centenarians and still be happy, like Betty White, who I love bringing up because the woman is 99 years old, actually, she she comes and visits people in the building that I live in here in Los Angeles. And she's beautiful, right? So I see her often. She just turned 99. And she thanked her agent, because her agent continues to give her scripts and continues to get her job. So this is a woman who is still memorising scripts at age 99. So that's somebody who is able to retain her memory. So when people who were in their 60s are like, Oh, I forget where I put things. She's actually working her memory consistently because it's a part of her job. So this is something that all of us just need to remember to do. Maybe we should all start memorising scripts, or grocery list or memory.Ken Brown  17:11  I thought you wanted to be I thought you you wanted us to become an actress. I didn't know. We've already been told that we have faces for radio. Oh, that's right. Oh my gosh. So I heard I digress. No, I love what you're saying there because the new synapses. One of the coolest, Michael Pollan, and you quoted him in his book, The I don't remember all the books he's done, but he did did a series on he just came out with a new book about some anyways, how plants interact with our synapses and stuff. He quote, he said something that kind of made sense what you're talking about, he goes, it's been described that if you imagine a, a hill, that guts that had snow on it, everybody starts to sled on it, if you if you go down enough times, eventually makes a groove. And then you sat in that groove. And by doing certain things, you need to lay some new snowdown so that you can find a new path. And that's kind of what you're describing.Unknown Speaker  18:15  That's what new learning is. It's creating new paths. And then we're, I apologise if you're hearing the lovely fire. Can you hear the fire trucks out there?Ken Brown  18:28  It's la bursting in your door, we're gonna we're gonna raise the bond money for youUnknown Speaker  18:33  might actually hear the Sons of Anarchy out there as well, sometimes. motorcycle gangsKen Brown  18:39  are a little different right now. We didn't quite have the effect in LA in New York. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  18:46  But no, he's absolutely correct. It's, you know, in neuroscience, we have this phrase neurons that fire together, wire together. And it's the circuits that get repeated the things that we do every day, the thoughts that we think the the information that we take in whether we're reading or learning something new, it's all our brain is a dynamic organ that is continuing to grow and change every single second with every input that we get light sound, what we read, right, what comes in through our visual centres, everything. So part of why I wrote this book is to make us more consciously aware of the things that are in our environment that are impacting our health and our well being and our brain health. And because most people want to figure out how to retain their memories as they age, that was another reason for the book. But really the biggest reason you you noted it is working with the athletes who are really struggling with brain issues at very early ages. And the fact that we saw we could restore brain function through various Simple dietary and lifestyle modifications that anybody listening to this podcast could do. I mean, there's, you know, we've got all the bells and whistles in the clinical setting the neurofeedback, the current transcranial magnetic stimulation, the hyperbaric oxygen therapies, you've got the IV therapies. But even doing all of those, everybody still has to do the lifestyle piece. And that's as important, as all of these other technologies that we have that for some people could be cost prohibitive, which is why I, you know, I put those things more towards the back of the book, but we can still talk about them, because a hyperbaric oxygen chamber can actually revascularize the brain. So you can grow new new vasculature. And if you think about participating in a collision based sport, like football, now, I was an equestrian. So I spent 10 years showing horses falling off of horses. So when I speak about working with athletes, they're very much I'm very connected with them, because I've had my fair share of head impacts. The difference being in football, you know, they've put accelerometers inside the helmets. And I've studied how many impacts football players are taking in high school in college. So on average, do you want to take a guess? This is kind of fun. Since I have you too. I'm going to average so guess the average number of impacts a high school football player is having per season,Eric Rieger  21:37  I would imagine it's gonna be a few 1000. I don't know though.Unknown Speaker  21:39  It's actually lower. So it's around 650. So per season. And then college is about 1300. So then, if you're talking about a football player who's played four years of high school, four years of college, you're getting about 8000 impacts. But then you've got the G force.Ken Brown  22:02  So that so the impact is now you've got bigger, stronger people. So the impact is much greater at the college level.Unknown Speaker  22:11  at the college level, exactly. So the average g force in high school is around 28 G's per impact. So you can say anywhere between 10 and impact could be as low as whatever note 10 G's as high as 150 G. So they're lower impact and high school in college, they were averaging around 68 G's.Unknown Speaker  22:33  Yeah,Eric Rieger  22:34  I got a quick question on that. I think that long ago, I heard that. Not only is obviously the increase in the impact, obviously can be more damaging, but the sheer repetitive nature of it itself is quite damaging. Even if it happens to just be over and over again, it's kind of like water torture,Unknown Speaker  22:54  you hit the nail on the head. So that's the biggest issue. It's the repetitive sub concussive impacts that are damaging the individual cells. So you get the shearing and the tearing of the axons and the cells. And they now need the time to, you know, restore back to, you know, sort of try to get back to normal function. And, of course, if you're playing a game where football players are hitting, you know, every play of the game, the lineman might have three or four impacts per play. There was a paper that came out that actually not only measured the number of impacts, but measured the linear and rotational forces. And it was I think, across both high school and college, the average linear acceleration in G forces was 188,000, g forces to the very delicate neurons in your brain, the rotational acceleration was over 3 million, like radians per second squared. So you know, somebody can go through a whole High School and collegiate career and maybe not have a diagnosed concussion, because the concussion is just a temporary alteration of mental status after an impact to the head or chest with or without the loss of consciousness. So, you know, 10% of the people might have, you know, a loss of consciousness or amnesia, but they recover quite quickly. But it's all those repetitive sub concussive impacts that you're talking about Eric that are causing the damage at the level of the neurons that are then causing the tauopathy. That's what the chronic traumatic encephalopathy is, it's just a tauopathy right, an accumulation of this misfolded abnormally folded tau protein phosphorylated tau protein, they're starting to see it first stage one CTS in the frontal lobes. And that shouldn't be surprising because football players hit the front part of their head right? The that's why they're spacey at first in the frontal lobes then stage two gets into the temporal lobes. And some parietal lobe stage three gets into the deeper cortical structures like the amygdala, hippocampus and Toronto cortex. And then stage four is now getting into the brainstemEric Rieger  25:12  changed since then, but I mean, I can remember playing and you didn't know to complain, unless, you know, unless you're injured, you know, Are you injured? Are you hurt? And that was kind of the, the thought process, you know, almost 30 years ago was to make certain that you don't complain unless you actually could show an injury. But nobody was really doing anything about brain injury that at that point in time, and I know that it's improved somewhat, but unless I'm falling down and throwing up or they feel like the spots, nobody ever stopped,Unknown Speaker  25:45  you probably went back in the game after you throw up because I've watched you watch men play sports, rugby, it's like, Okay, I'm ready to go back. And plus, you have the adrenaline. I mean, I. So I was a competitive show jumper, I had several horses, one of my horses was a thoroughbred, off the racetrack, and I the fences, I would jump were four foot three, four foot nine. And I would race at them. I mean, I was a crazy, sort of, I was a maverick, I loved it. So I and I've fallen off hundreds of times. The differences, you know, the differences with football, that's a game where the impacts are coming. You know, you've got repetitive impacts on every play. Well, you may not you may only play 12 or 14 or 16 games a season. It's also the practice games. So you if you start to read the papers and say sometimes there's 95, practice games, and then 12 games in your season. So that's actually a lot of impacts that are happening. Now. You know, I don't I don't know what is going to happen with football. And there are certainly people who you know, have an extended career. I mean, we've worked with players, one of the players that was in our study, played 12. So he went to UCLA defensive lineman, his name's Fred McNeil. He played for the Minnesota Vikings was a first round draft pick, I believe pick number 17. Played 12 seasons on the Vikings played in a Super Bowl, they never won. When he left the NFL, he went to law school, I can't remember where he went. He went to law school, graduated valedictorian of his class, then became a partner in his law firm. So here's somebody who, right high school, I think he had a 22 year lifetime, sort of risk of from playing football, so 22 years in the game, but still was able to go to law school afterwards. It was clearly really smart. At the age of 57, is when he came in to our study, and he just came in to see what his brain look like. And when we did the brain imaging, the scan showed Frontotemporal dementia. So we saw low blood flow in the frontal lobe and the temporal lobes, he did not know he had that. But he knew he was struggling with depression, he was having memory issues, but he was still working. So then we sent him to the neurologist worked with him for seven years, he ended up getting diagnosed with ALS, and passing away at the age of 63. The reason why I share his story is he's the illustration of somebody can play football, and then have a 20 year 25 year period where they're just living their life. And then all of a sudden, you have the degenerative disease hit quickly. And we know you know in the world of neurology and neuroscience and neuroimaging, we know degenerative changes happen in the brain 1520 years at the cellular level before you have a symptom. So that's what's happening with the players. It's just happening earlier, which is why I think anybody who plays a collision baseboard should be on a brain health protocol. And that's just about being really mindful about the foods you eat. You know, I really wouldn't recommend drinking a lot of alcohol. It's not great for the brain. I mean, there, there's a lot of very intuitive things, and I talked about that in the book. But you have to be serious about it if you don't want to spend your 6/7 or eighth decade of life dealing with these issues. And because I was in a psychiatric clinic, we also worked with the underlying psychiatric problems, right? That they have a greater risk of depression and anxiety. So getting those things treated, is really helpful, and sort of having a better quality of life.Ken Brown  29:38  So I just want to say this. After reading the book, I want to eat your brain right now. Because what you're talking about is so cool. But in your book, you do a step wise process to prevent this from happening. So anybody that's listening, even if you're not into the science that we're going to get into because it's it's it's beautiful. Well, I think that the, that when a neuroscientist like yourself comes from a background of research and you, you're wise to protect the brain. And my why actually, and we've talked about this is if I had one goal that I can do in my lifetime would be to prevent dementia. And the reason is, is that I believe that memories have no price, I would prefer to buy a memory than buy a thing. And I gotta teach my kids this that yes. And so as we live our life, if those memories get stolen from you, in my mind, that is, that is a life wasted in your own mind, although it isn't for the others around you, but in your own mind. So if I could do one thing, and what we are seeing in my world is gastroenterologist is that when we see Alzheimer's, dementia and Parkinson's, present with gut issues 20 years before.Unknown Speaker  30:53  So you see the 20 year language, you see the 20 year note you saw, and I wrote about this in my book, my father ended up having Parkinson's. And you will appreciate this. And I didn't really go into it in the book, but you know, he, so he's a combat helicopter pilot in Vietnam, two tours, but exposed to Agent Orange. And then was a pilot for Pan American. So of course, there's all of the exhaust and things that you're exposed to and was a fireman. But my dad six for healthy, lean fit, no issues, no Parkinson's in our family, no psychiatric issues in our family. So I found it interesting about the age of 50 is when the tremor started coming on. You know, he was diagnosed later in his 70s and then passed away at 78. But he ate very healthy My dad was one of those people who is juicing and clean eating, I feel the glyphosate, whatever, the roundup whatever's in the Agent Orange, I feel my dad's issues really stem from that. And that all eradicates the healthy bacteria in your gut. And so I really for him, I feel environmental exposure was, you know, predominant in his parkinsonian issues. And, you know, I'm, I'm really about how do we help people live their healthiest life. And in the book I go into when it comes to food, I really talked about the Mediterranean diet with a plant based, sort of, they call it plant predominant, you know, it's, I still would allow for people to have meat, but really when I was working with the player, so I talked about running a brain directed weight loss group for football players, which is really quite comical, because when, when Dr. Ayman said I was doing that I thought he was crazy. I'm like, these guys are elite athletes, they already know how to work out be lean, but they actually weren't lean. When we were working with them, some of them work because they were active players. And some of them were older, so I had to get them slim. So it would help their brain health because we know excess inflammation in the body damages the brain and we publish research on that. But where does the information come from? It comes from the food. And it comes in the gut. And this is such a great teaching moment. And I'm here because I would love to learn from you. I mean, the meat What can I just ask you? What is your stance on me?Ken Brown  33:37  My staff. So I've tried to be open minded about everything. And it's like all things. So when game changers came out on Netflix, yeah, like that's it. I'm all plant based. I'm going to be an elite athlete and I did the stupid thing which was I tried to do the meat substitutes and stuff like that, which I didn't possible burger. I didn't even well not that but whatever it was, I mean, and so then I realised that in there so I'm a big I'm gluten intolerant and didn't realise that they use gluten as fillers all sort of stuff. So that was I Eric will laugh at this pretty much everything I do I will just dive into an obscene levels now pretty much.Eric Rieger  34:23  Pretty much that's just the male brain I applaud that.Ken Brown  34:28  They come out with these scars be like don't do that. But like don't do it that way. I actually believe the way that I try to eat is mostly I'm okay with me. I tried to do grass fed grass finished beef. brasco originally, so it would My my, my dad would roll over in his grave. He was actually a butcher so it would be difficult to actually deny.Unknown Speaker  34:56  a butcher Okay, I find okay. This is really fascinating. Your dad was a butcher and your gastroenterologist, and you read books like The China Study, which talk about the inflammatory nature of meat, and how it can release the bacterial endotoxins in your gut, and that can be inflammatory. So do you recommend that people keep meat down to one meal per day? limited to once per week.Ken Brown  35:31  So this is a great jumping off point and spotlight off me real quick, because one of the things I loved in your book was chapter one was pretty much or maybe it was chapter two, where you're like, if I can ask you to do one thing, it's quit eating processed food. Yep. Yeah. So yes, I'm the same way. So when you say what do you tell your patients I, I struggle with? Let's avoid high fructose corn syrup, and saturated fatty acids. Let's get rid of those emulsifiers everything that you talked in your book? Yeah, that's hard enough to do. That's people doing that. So once you get into the it's like, a comedian was joking about it. He's like, yeah, my, my trainer neighbour was saying, maybe you're eating too much fruit as I was eating a doughnut, like, that's the problem.Unknown Speaker  36:19  Right? The more fruit gets thrown out. And I'm like, No, you need the fruit. My God, you we need the antioxidants. As you know, in your supplement, which is polyphenols, right, we need our brain needs antioxidants, we need them from the diet, I feel it's the number one way to help preserve your long term brain health. Because the there's such a delicate balance between free radical production in the brain and antioxidant capacity. And free radicals are produced just by you know, metabolism. So we need to make sure our diet in our diet every single day, we're getting antioxidants. And I sort of made when I taught the Mediterranean diet to the football players and the patients in our psychiatric setting, it was very prescriptive. And I outlined the prescriptive nature of it in the book I I should have gone into it in more detail because people really seem to like it. But I make it like a pilot's checklist with people. And I just say, Hey, here's the things that I want you to get into your diet every day. We can modify, you know, if you're loving me, you know, well, meat can be inflammatory. And people, I'm going to find a really creative way, because I want them to stick with it for a lifetime. So I have a really sort of fun way of doing upgrades, but making it work for them. But the I really had a checklist for people, it was like, you know, three green leafy vegetables per day check, you know, one orange, red or yellow vegetableKen Brown  37:52  that was that was your adaption to the it's the mediterr.Unknown Speaker  37:56  It's the Mediterranean diet.Ken Brown  37:59  But but this is but this was your adaption when, in the part of the book where you said, This is my brain health diet. And yeah, you're saying that it's the Mediterranean with a checklist, youUnknown Speaker  38:10  I gave it sort of in a prescriptive way. So people knew, you know, because like you said, everybody's unique, and they have the things that they love. And if you make it too difficult, they're just not going to do anything. And so sometimes the initial barter was, you know, if I was trying to limit somebody drinking too much coffee, and I talked about coffee in the book, because coffees a vasoconstrictor. And in the brain imaging world, we don't want to cause too much vasoconstriction. So I would make a barter, I'd say for every cup of coffee, I'd love for you to do a fresh green juice. And I would actually make it or I have, you know, sometimes they come in the clinic if I'm teaching it to a group of patients and be like, here, here's what it tastes like. You got to make it fun and accessible. So that's what I would do with following the diet. The The point being I need to get more clean, healthy nutrients in and let's try to get some of those processed foods and sugars and the things that you're very sort of used to eating out. AndKen Brown  39:15  while I was just gonna say that what's interesting when you say used to eating as zero scientist, we know that if you look at the food industry, they hire very intelligent scientists to make junk food work on your brain. I've met with food chemists, I met them. Oh, yeah. Can you expand on that?Unknown Speaker  39:35  Well, I just when we were designing supplements, sometimes you you know, you meet with people who are hired for that specific reason. And what do people love fat, sugar, salt, you know, it's very easy to put all of those things into, you know, a packaged food that's gonna sit on the shelf for however, you know, however long to be on the shelf, one of the most important things I would teach people, if anything, sometimes you just got to get down to the basics, right? Because if I can help somebody change one bad habit, we're already going to make progress. You know, sometimes my, the one habit that I would have everybody do is change how much the amount of fluids they were consuming in water. That's why I actually dedicate one chapter to water. It is so important. And I have my glass right here, you know, cheers. It's, you know, before food, sometimes I think the hydration piece is the piece that always gets lost. And when I made people chart there, how much water they were drinking, this was so fun. As a scientist, I charted everything, because I can't help somebody change something if I don't know what you're doing. And you might say, Oh, yeah, I drink enough water. And I'm like, Oh, I bet you don't. So let's, let's track how much water you're drinking and make sure you're drinking the right amount. And I would we, in my groups that I taught, I would say, let's not drink our calories. So let's get rid of all the juices, the sodas, let's just do water. And it's amazing how people who love soda, if that was the only thing they got rid of in one year, they could easily lose 20 pounds. So for me, for Burbank brain health perspective, if I'm getting you to just drink clean water every day with even if it's from your tap with a filter, fantastic. Let's get it out of a plastic bottle, because the BPA you know, from the plastics are not going to be great for your gut health. Number one, let alone your brain health. So let's try to have it in a glass. And, you know, I talk about I now get water bottled water, you know, that's actually a hyper oxygenated and slightly alkaline, I mean, you know, I can't help myself being in this field, you sometimes know too much. So you're going to go for the best. But I clean up the water, I try to get more of the green juicing in, because we know how important vegetables are. And if somebody just does not want to have a vegetable, a lot of times I can get them to do a fresh green juice that has lots of great enzymes. And you know, and we can get fruit in there. So I was really working on how do I unwind some of the really destructive habits that people just do repeatedly, you know, multiple times a day over the course of weeks, months, years, that are not really serving you. And that was I think that was the fun part of teaching those groups. It's like, Oh, my God, I Wow. And not only do I change their habits, then they're dropping weight like crazy. That's why I put a bunch of stories in there about people that had lost over 100 pounds. With me not. That's not even my area of expertise. And it was just happening becauseKen Brown  42:47  I mean your areas to change habits, which is changing brain, that'sUnknown Speaker  42:52  my area, my area of expertise is brains and brain imaging. But I you know, it was this really fascinating experience of watching people change their diet and very quickly lose weight. And seeing people who were in their 50s and 60s who didn't even think they could lose 10 pounds, lose 60 pounds in a year. Like, wow, I just shifted a few things in your diet, you just you I'm a cheerleader, probably like you. So I get really excited for people success. So I'm sure there was a synergy between myself and the players and the patients I work with and the you know, let's help you clean up the foods you're eating. And you know why they're important, especially because everybody that I work with, you know, to psychiatric clinic, we're also working to improve their mood. And the only way we can do that is by cleaning up those foods. Right, bringing the saturated fats down trying to bring down the saturated animal fats, bringing in more of the mono and polyunsaturated right healthy fats from plants and marine based, you know, omega threes and just it's about fruits, vegetables, legumes, nuts and seeds, Whole Foods. It's not hard.Eric Rieger  44:09  I got a quick question for you. Yeah, mentioned the green juice. Yes. And the you've mentioned also a few times that there may be technologies that may not have access because of cost. And for some people even time, right, you've mentioned green juice a couple of times what was an ideal green juice for someone to make at home.Unknown Speaker  44:28  I love that. You know I mentioned green juice so much I started doing it 20 years ago. So I'm 4848 Now, every single day I've done some kind of green juice. Now I throw beets in it as well because I think it's an easy way to get a red you know something red in there. But I tell people just think green you know the base is typically celery or cucumber. And then you add kale, parsley, spinach edge, all throw in. I love pear So I put in a boss pair sometimes I put an apple in, sometimes they put a red bead in. The reason why I mentioned it is not only is it hydrating, so I drink usually 32 ounces of juice. So this morning, I start my day with two eight ounce glasses of water. The first is a water is clean water the second I usually put a little lemon in, then I do my juice, which is 32 ounces. So I you know the hydration is really how I like to start my day. And I feel that the juicing over time and I'm asking you the gastroenterologist and I've read about this, I'm actually priming my gut with these very healthy, nourishing enzyme rich fluids because the polyphenols and the vitamins and the nutrients that are in the greens are critical for your gut health and every single food you eat. Correct is helping to populate either good or bad bacteria. Dr. Brown?Ken Brown  46:04  Yes. Read in your book when I told my patients to do this. And they said, What do you mean by green? I'm like, I don't know if it's green. Just do it. And so then they were like I'm doing green m&ms. I'm doing green Skittles with thisUnknown Speaker  46:16  Skittles.Ken Brown  46:16  So maybe I should have looked more into what you meant by the greens. Thank you for asking that question, Eric. Yeah, IEric Rieger  46:22  just wanted to set you straight because I knew this was a problem.Ken Brown  46:25  My patients were gaining weight, and they're just like, I'm like, so what are you doing now? They're like, I do one sprig of spinach, one sprig of kale and green m&m.Eric Rieger  46:33  Yeah, I was doing today. green juice out of a sour patch. And I got diabetes. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  46:40  I'm coming after you, Dr. Brown. Yeah. You know what, I had fun having the football players do it, they all the coolest thing about working with pro athletes is they will do anything you tell them. And because they trust me, so I'm like, Come on, guys, here's what we're going to do, right, to get them to lose weight, I had to the volume of food that they were eating each day was around 4500 calories. So first of all, we're, you know, we're not at training table anymore. So you know, bring that down. And I did sort of the creative thing where, you know, if you can keep your meals from 500 calories, you know, if you can, you can have a burrito, that's 2000 calories. That's, that's a whole day's worth of calories in one meal. So I would creatively say, hey, whatever you're eating at noon, let's cut it in half and have your first part at noon, I say, you can have your second part at 130. If you're still hungry, and I did that at dinner, I said dinner, you can have your dinner, whatever at seven, and then at 815, if you're still hungry, you can have the other half. So you have to get I just had so much fun being creative with how in all my players were losing weight, so players were losing weight. And my mentor was like you're teaching this in our psychiatric clinic, I'm like I am okay. And it just kept going. It was this really beautiful. Because watching people change their foods, their bodies change, I knew their brain health would change for the better. And then we used the nutraceuticals. For the for the pro athletes, really to help support blood flow to the brain boost certain neurotransmitters, right? that are really important in memory. Because most people don't realise after the age of 40 is when our neurotransmitters, systems, we don't tend to make as many and that's how we start getting diseases like Parkinson's, that's the dopamine, you know, system is not functioning as optimally as it could and, you know, all simers, you know, we're talking about acetylcholine. So, you know, I mentioned in my book, you know, everyone over the age of 40 would probably be smart to take a whole food multivitamin, just for your brain health. So there was a nutraceutical component here. That was again very helpful for the players, but the goal being to really help improve perfusion to the brain and, you know, help to you know, omega three fatty acids, for example, are really important in building the cells, the neurons in your brain and for that synaptic plasticity, you need to have the building blocks which are in the omega three fatty acids.Ken Brown  49:25  Yeah, and in your book you do a fantastic job of describing these are your basics. This is the the first line startingUnknown Speaker  49:32  lineup starting Yeah, kind of made it a fun word analogy, like starting lineup where you know, here six, basic nutraceuticals pretty much everybody can take them. You know, I always tell people run this by your doctor. I mean, I was the director of nutrition in nutraceuticals. So not only was I responsible for helping to create and study the efficacy of these products using brain imaging, but I worked with our psychiatric A population who is trying to get off of medications and using nutraceuticals as a way to support their, you know, manage anxiety, depression add. So this is why I really became a fan of them because I saw how effective they could be. And if we could do a nutraceutical approach versus a medicine that has more side effects. A nutraceutical approach is sort of a wiser way to go. But then you started to see, okay, here's your starting lineup, the basics everybody could do, I did what I call all star team. So if you want to take your nutraceuticals to the next level, here's, you know, five other things that I think are really important. And then what I did what I call the injured reserve, which is, these are the nutraceuticals, we use for patients with brain imaging, or I'm sorry, with brain injuries, or say you had chemotherapy, and you have chemo brain, you know, or we're working on, you've had a toxic exposure, too much alcohol, these are the things that can help to restore blood flow to the brain.Ken Brown  51:06  What I loved about it is that you addressed initially, that you understood that people may not have the resources to get these, right to get these supplements. And then in addition to that, at each end of the paragraph, this is what you need to look for in the supplement which was awesome. Also, I was gonna do this. Yeah, look for GMP look for this, you if you're going to get a fish oil, look for the symbol for non mercury and this and that, that was beautiful. so that people can do their homework and not just walk into target, and go, Oh, this is what I'm going to grab our Walmart or whatever, and I'm right. But um, you know,Unknown Speaker  51:40  thank you for that. It's, you know, it's really hard. You walk into a whole foods and you have just sort of the shelves that are lined with nutraceuticals. And you just don't know, what do I take? What don't I take the you ask the person there who's working there? Hey, which one's good? And I because I've seen how these things work in our patients and know the levels. You know, it's very nuanced. And, you know, prior to being in the brain imaging space, I you know, I wasn't really using nutraceutical so I have a very, I really appreciate how they work in the brain. And a consistent use of certain nutraceuticals over time can really support brain health. And I think more people, even those who are on the fence. I've watched some doctors who work more in that sort of traditional medic Western medical world who I know a lot of them still aren't on the nutraceutical bandwagon. But I've seen the older doctors who are in their 70s or 80s, pretty much everybody starts taking a nutraceutical at some point for their joints. I mean, omega three fatty acids and our NFL population when we started just giving them they had a minimum of two grammes of fish oil per day, they started to have less joint pain. Because omega threes are anti inflammatory. They're like, Wow, I didn't even know that. So it's some of these little things that I think are really very valuable.Ken Brown  53:14  Absolutely. There's one thing that I do want because I need your help on this. Yes. After reading your book, so I'm a I'm a morning habit person, and I'm an evening habit person. Yes. And my OCD wife nuts that I will do the same thing, which well,Unknown Speaker  53:31  really, I would think she'd like that as a person of ritual.Ken Brown  53:34  ritual. It's how I how I end the ritual that bothers her. So for instance, I have tea every night, I've candle meal tea, but I hate enormous Amazon mug, and I will make it and I will sit and after a long day and we'll try and watch some TV. And inevitably I'll start dozing off and she'll fall asleep. Just go to bed and I will drink about this most of the tea. And then she gets mad at me. She's like, you waste all this to you after reading your book. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. Dr. William, you're said after a night of sleeping, you have not had anything to drink. That's when I'm going to get up. That's why I make it so I can wake up and then I chugged my tea in the morning. So that's where I start my hydration process. You do i do do the Kevin meal tea in the morning as well. I do that. Not a health reason. But just because I don't want to be yelled up on the wife. I love eventually I will drink that.Unknown Speaker  54:27  I love how she's like, okay, we're gonna make sure all of this tea gets drunk, do not fall asleep and not finish that tea. And I love it that it works very well for you as a sleep aid.Ken Brown  54:39  Well, I think working really hard throughout the day, we're probably well, you know,Unknown Speaker  54:45  I'm so coming from psychiatry, like more than 50% of people need help with sleep. It's just such a common thing. I was like, oh, it really works well for you. You're just exhausted. But they came a meal teas probably helping toKen Brown  54:59  say Hearing scientists and writing books and everything you just fall asleep. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  55:06  tell you something in our household. My husband is the real sensitive sleeper. He was super like, wakes up. He can wake up with me breathing like I could breathe too loud. He's like, Uh huh. And I fall asleep anywhere and everywhere. It's like a full shutdown.Ken Brown  55:23  You know, what I think is going on with your husband that maybe you could comment that is okay. Your book? I believe? He has a large amygdala. Oh, yes. He probably. Yes, that chapter on that. And the whole amygdala thing, because I have Eric. We watched free solo with Alex hormone huddled hahnel. Three. Oh, have you seen free solo? No. Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So basically, it's a movie about a guy who climbed El Capitan, with no gear at all, totally free solo.Eric Rieger  56:05  He does it all the time.Ken Brown  56:06  First person ever do it, and he just completely. But what was amazing is that he fell one time and it was a documentary. So his friend was, Oh, my, they didn't, you're gonna love this. They did an MRI on him. And they found that he has a little tiny amygdala, I no fear. No fearUnknown Speaker  56:23  can probably if I'm probably impulsive, like there's that in our frontal lobes, you know, I think having a lower frontal lobe function might make you more impulsive and more of a risk taker. We see that with firefighters and police officers. I mean, what, what sane human being wants to run into a burning building like my father or, you know, be a chopper pilot in Vietnam? And, you know, yeah, I'm just going to go down and, you know, drop some people out picks up people, or a police officer or a free climber who has no gear and feels perfectly comfortable in that position. Somebody who, well feels very, you know what, that's somebody who does not fear deathKen Brown  57:09  100% now? Uh huh. So he's a complete, unique individual. But in her book, you described how cortisol affects the amygdala can you get into that a little bit?Unknown Speaker  57:21  Well, and how cortisol affects our brain, in general, my God, too much cortisol. So we have glucocorticoid receptors, a lot of them on our hippocampus, the area of the brain that is critical to learning and memory. So when we have chronic, unrelenting release of cortisol, like probably like most of us have done during the global pandemic. You know, our big our hippocampus can shrink. And we were talking about neuroplasticity, and synaptic plasticity, that that absolutely stops. So you have lower amounts of what we call BDNF or brain derived neurotrophic factor, which is what we need to help grow new neurons. Or that'sKen Brown  58:07  another question, we're gonna talk about that next, just grow new neurons, neurons, because that was new to me. I was taught in med school, we can't do that. Okay, sorry,Unknown Speaker  58:15  course you were taught in med school. No, but now we know the hippocampus, you can grow new neurons until you're 90. And I'll tell you, we need them in the hippocampus By that time, because, you know, I've seen a lot of, you know, we do volumetric, MRI, hippocampal, MRIs on people who are older with dementia, and you see that, you know, they shrink to the 14th percentile or fifth percentile. And then you wonder, you know, 100%, is where we want it. And, you know, as we age, that structure shrinks. And, you know, so I know, I'm getting off topic, I'm talking about the hippocampus, it's really important, because if we, if we don't maintain the hippocampal volume, we aren't going to be able to take all of the things that we learned during the day that are in our short term memory, all the new things, when we sleep, we take that information, and we consolidate it into our long term memory, but it has to go through the hippocampus. And so it's really essential that that region of the brain, we want to continue to work it and continue to do the things to help those neurons grow. And that's exercise and new learning. Those are like the two amazing ways to do it. But back to our friend who's the free climber. So you're talking about stress and he clearly hasKen Brown  59:32  well i was i always joked with Eric that I feel like when we watched him do this and I'm just like he's got no I feel like my amygdala is like, pushed it's like it's so large. Yeah, pushing my cerebral low becauseUnknown Speaker  59:44  emotionally You're right, that amygdala gets activated during emotionally charged events. And that's what what makes it grow. So the amazing thing are the people who are able to find their centre are to be calm and to keep, you know, cortisol levels down. And my I will tell you my father was the combat helicopter pilot, he used to tell me when he was younger, he never feared dying in Vietnam, the only thing he feared was that if he died, his parents would have lost their only son. He loved it. He absolutely loved being a pilot loved it. He's like, I wouldn't even know all the death that he saw and getting shot at. And his funeral actually said, my dad took the you know, they give you the vest that you wear the bulletproof vest, he folded it sat on it, because all the firing was coming up underneath the chopper. Oh, but here's, I wish my dad was lead because he's so lovely. Just had just the beautiful spirit kind heart. And he taught me about not being afraid. He just, we can decide how we want to view things in life. I think the gentleman who's the free climber was probably not afraid of death. If he fell, he would he would fall doing something he loved. So I just think he, in his mind, his perspective on things such that, hey, I'm going to go out and have fun. I love doing this, right? It gets my adrenaline going. It makes me happy. It's my joy. It's my passion. And so, you know, he had no fear any trusted himself. He's done enough climbs with all of his gear, that he's like, I've done this, right. He's repeated the pathways. Remember you were talking earlier about Michael Pollan talking about what's you know, synaptic plasticity, and it's like going down the, the fresh snow and the sled and you keep repeating that, you know, event so that those tracks are really strong in the brain? Well, this gentleman clearly had done that as well. And he had confidence in himself. So it's more his levels were probably down, butKen Brown  1:01:57  it's so on that same line, when we're talking about repeating yourself and the tracks. Yeah, in chapter eight, you have a great chapter about controlling your emotions, both negative and positive thoughts and rumination and preventing that rumination? Can you talk about that, because that was the first time I've seen a neuroscience approach to what I would almost consider some form of meditation.Unknown Speaker  1:02:20  It is what you know, most of us don't really reflect on the thoughts that we have, you know, and thoughts. Some of them come from internally, and some of them, you know, we just get from the people that were around. That's why I also think it's really smart. As we get older, we're selective on the people that we keep company with. Because sometimes, you know, there's the people that make us happy. And then there's the people that don't write that irritate us. You get that thought cycle. And you're like, ah, but in I write the chapter on thoughts, because, again, I worked in the field of psychiatry, and what is what do we tell people have anxiety or depression, you know, anxious, people are fearing the future. depressed people tend to be thinking about the past. Oh, put rumination, ruminating thoughts. People who have ruminating thoughts, sometimes those are the ones who have the OCD, right? There's, there's a neurobiological wiring in certain people's brains where they can't get off the feedback loop. And what I've learned, this is why I talk about meditation. If you are one of those people, with there's many ways to help address thoughts. I mean, you can talk to a therapist and sort of talk through them, you know, you can take them out of your head and write them on paper. That's why journaling works for some people, or the meditation process, the whole goal of meditation is to it's, it's like observing a thought it's, you're supposed to just let the thought come through and leave come through and leave not hold on to it. We've got techniques like EMDR, they're different therapies that we can do to work with people to help them resolve a trauma or get through a negative thought. Because if you're a firefighter, and you know, you've lost a comrade, or you've, you've watched somebody die, I mean, that's a traumatic experience your amygdala is going to get, it's going to it's going to grow, your cortisol levels are going to be up and you might have a form of PTSD. And you may relive that memory. It's why sleep is so important, because sleep is one of the times our brain can actually work through those emotions. We actually does it while we're sleeping. So we're able to then get up in the morning and be able to sort of process it. So thoughts are really you know, they happen, you get 50 to 70,000. And they're just happening second by second by second. It's what we hold on to which thoughts that we're going to hold on to or let go. So meditation is the process of allowing things to just flow and to be in the present moment, not worrying about Future, not worrying about the past being here like I'm here with you to right now and fully present completely engaged, totally entertained to her awesome. And that's what we have to teach people to do is to live more in the now and not fear the future or stay stuck in the past, but I have, I have such compassion for people because sometimes there's the neurobiological wiring of the brain keeps people in these certain patterns. For example, you might have in your family, you might have OCD, or anxiety disorder. So to tell somebody with an anxiety disorder not to let your thoughts bother you. Well, that's, that's a wiring that they have. And we may need to do use some supplements like gamma to calm that region down. We might want to use some neurofeedback to help teach your brain to kind of calm that wiring down. Um, there are certain foods that you can eat, right, that can help release gabbeh that can calm that down, you can work with a therapist, so we have all of these modalities to help people redirect their thoughts. But the most important thing and I think you've probably learned that from the chapter is that our thoughts impact our body impact our physiology, right, our thoughts can increase our cortisol levels, like I could be sitting here talking to you right now and be super nervous. I'm not because you're, you two are so lovely. And it's a lot of fun. But in my mind, I could work myself up and get myself anxious and my heart rate goes up and my blood pressure goes up, my cortisol goes up, and then my gut could get all, you know, butterfly. So that's the power of our mind. AndEric Rieger  1:06:44  I was gonna ask you, do you think because what you're outlining when you talk about somebody who suffers from anxiety, or really any type of issue? Oh, do you think they're we're going to get to a point where when someone goes in for an element of depression, or anxiety, etc, it's going to be more mainstream at some point, that we begin to go through their diet history, their exercise history, and you said to yourself being present. So when you're with someone, are you putting your phone down all of these different things, before we leap into a prescriptive measure? Because it seems as if over the last 40 years, reaching for the pill, is it's just been the easy, quick fix. And in ultimately, what we're learning over the last four decades is that'sKen Brown  1:07:31  That's no way to live. Before you comment, I just want to say what's happening right now in the medical world is that in an intake evaluation, when you go to a primary care doctor, they are obligated to, to check certain boxes so that they can Yeah, when is this depression questionnaire? And if they score a certain amount? Yeah, they'll address it in the addressing is always or I shouldn't say always, almost always are often when they score a certain number if you if you're meeting certain metrics you against it. And the way to address it is by giving an SSRI, you are you obligated to do that? So it's like a DSM five. This is more of the primary care thing. So I see these when they come to me because yeah, as as you've already, you know, as you've already pointed out, I I the backwards, I don't think I ever treat a gut without treating a brain and the brain without treating the gut. So well. Yeah. But what Eric is saying is exactly right. So I just before you commented, I want you to know that the medical industry is sort of encouraging this pharmaceutical approach,Unknown Speaker  1:08:41  I have compassion, and I can sort of put myself in everybody's shoes. You know, I have a unique perspective, because I worked in a psychiatric clinic where we do brain imaging on patients. And the reason why is the kind of patients that were coming into our clinic have complex comorbid psychiatric disorders. So they've typically failed. Three previous psychiatrists, they have on average, three to four psychiatric diagnoses are on five to six meds, and they're still struggling. So we use quantitative eg, and, you know, functional imaging to see what's going on. How is their brain working? And how can we use the most natural approaches first, and we can see based on the way the wiring is, which medications are going to be better? Do they need an SSRI? Do they need an snri?Ken Brown  1:09:32  I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but what you just said is fascinating to me. You said based on the imaging, you can choose what corrections Oh, yeah, you count. That's a whole nother podcast. It was gosh, oh, yeah. And I really didn't have room in the book to get into that. But that raises the book.Unknown Speaker  1:09:52  Yeah. The book is about inspiring people to take better care of their brain health and talking about what we did with a football player. And how we were able to restore some function in their brain. But this is, yeah, I have compassion because I understand doctors who see patients, you know, there's the standard anxiety medications. There's the standard psychiatric depression, anti depressant medications. And you're basically just trying to figure it out, like which box Am I ticking, right? If you want an snri, you want to give that to somebody who has a DD symptoms, and depression, right? Because you want to stimulate and calm the brain simultaneously. Whereas an SSRI you want to give if we're just working on calming the brain, li

Here we are, at the end. Listen to this introspective with host Kenneth Brown Jr as he looks back at what he has learned while doing his project and gives some words of his own. In this episode we cover, Kenneth provides a definition of "pivoting" (3:09)The ways the pandemic has forced us to be vulnerable (12:28)The power of being connected in and out of sectors (17:20)The words our guests have shared  (25:20)Words from Kenneth (29:10)Kenneth's next moves (30:55)Special thanks to Indiana University Bloomington for allowing us to use their fight song "Indiana, Our Indiana"The Full Series Lineup. Check out each episode on our show page! Maggie Kane of A Place at The TableKristine Sloan of Leadership TriangleMaddy Starr, Paige Wilson, Gaby Jimenez of The Intersect ConferenceErnest Dollar of the City of Raleigh MuseumEric Dorfman of the NC Museum of Natural SciencesSandi Macdonald of the NC SymphonyRob Shields of ReCity NetworkPaul Atkinson of The Fletcher Academy, A School of AchievementAmber Smith of Activate GoodBrandy Bynum Dawson of the NC Rural CenterLaura Collins; incoming AJ Fletcher Fellow

Eric Rieger  0:00  Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. I hope you're having a great day. It is now time for episode number 58. And of course we got an awesome guest. It's Dr. Sabine Hasan, who is she a world renowned research gastroenterologist, she is based in California, and she is an expert in faecal microbial transplants, FMT trusted it fast. I couldn't do it. Anyhow FMT. So essentially you're taking healthy poop from a healthy person, and using that microbiome that's inside of there to be transplanted into somebody else who may not be doing so well and could have all kinds of disease etc. Regardless, she's at the forefront of finding real solutions that can be accepted by our bodies to make us better make us well even help you lose weight. That's right. Could poop because somebody else's poop Have you lose weight, and earmuffs in case you have any young kids in the car, but she wrote a book and it's called let's talk shit, although the AI is upside down like a exclamation point. So regardless, let's get to her interview. And well first got to pay the bills though of course brought to you by artron to artron to get your daily polyphenols that are Tron teal.com or just go to love my tummy calm get your daily polyphenols. That's right. Developed by my partner, Dr. Kenneth Brown, gastroenterologist, these polyphenols are terrific for you. Whether you having digestive issues, maybe you have symptoms that are similar to those of IBS. Or you're just an athlete and you want to be your best artron to love my tummy.com use code. gut check and save I believe 20% Next, of course, unrefined bakery they've been a longtime supporter, unrefined bakery.com excellent, incredible food, regardless of your specialty diet that's unrefined bakery.com if you are keto, paleo or vegan, they've got it in that is desserts breads, etc. pie crust yeah pie crust, do you think that you are gluten free or celiac disease and you can't have pie crust, unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% off of your entire first order delivered to all of the lower 48 states and last but not least go to KB Md health.com to get your very own KB MD health CBD and Brock elite which has severe veins or ultra until you can get the signature package from Dr. cans Brown. kb Md health.com. Now it is time for oh I'm sorry, KB Md health.com. Use code GCP to save 20% off of any order. Now it's time for episode number 58. Dr. Sabine HasanKen Brown  3:03  Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome to Episode 58 of the gut check project. Ooh, today's a really, really cool one. We have Dr. Sabine Hasan, who will be our very first gastroenterologist as a guest. So I'm a gastroenterologist, but she's way smarter than I am and does all kinds of really cool stuff on read. What's that? Cool stuff? Yes. Cool stuff. Indeed. It's awesome. So I put together a quick little bio for you. I apologise that I don't have your probably standard bio. So I hope I get some of this stuff, right. This is Oh, and you'll notice there's an empty seat here where my co host, Dr. Eric riegert crna, who's usually here on time. Don't do that. It'll make it blurry. It'll make it blurry. It'll get us out of focus. He almost photo bombed us. Dr. Hayes in this is Eric reser. We've already been talking and we practically had a whole podcast before this podcast. You missed it. Sorry. Oh, that'sEric Rieger  4:05  okay. Another topic that I'd like to talk about is promptness, and being on time, that's another thing that really well, apparently I wasn't very good at today.Ken Brown  4:14  So I'm really surprised. You know, what is what's interesting, and I hope it's something that we can comment later is that Eric got a round of antibiotics. And ever since then, it's so weird. He's just always late for everything, and I'm blaming it on the microbiomeUnknown Speaker  4:26  100% I think we should test this microbiome. I'll send you a kit. That's the first thing I do.Ken Brown  4:34  Alright, so Dr. Sabine Hasan is a Board Certified gastroenterologist and avid researcher. She has a thriving practice in Ventura, California, and she started her own clinical trial company 16 years ago called Ventura clinical trials, and has been principal investigator and sub investigator in over 150 clinical trials. Now you say that number but I'm in like, For, and it was exhausting. So 150 Holy cow. Alright, so during this period, she became an expert in the microbiome with an interest in cdiff. Clostridium difficile. So through this process, she became one of the world's leaders in faecal microbial transplant. And through her research and expert, and through research and experience, she realised the unmet need to dive deeper into the microbiome. And she founded progenitor biome. So she is the founder of her own company, progenitor biome. And most recently, she published a fun, easy to read book for the lay person called let's talk shit. And I got it, and I read it and I laughed a lot. And it's really good. Written in a great lay, lay person point of view. And I loved it. So Dr. Hayes, you want to talk some shit? Talk?Unknown Speaker  5:57  Let's talk shit, for sure. Oh, at least finally a podcast that's like willing to go there? Like, oh, I don't think we should talk about it. Or we should say another word. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? I've seen half the books that are out there. The Art of not giving a f EU Oh, that's number one bestseller. But let's talk shit. We can't even say the word shit. Since when is the F word more acceptable than the shit? Come on?Ken Brown  6:28  This is true. Unfortunately, I think I use the words quite frequently, both of them often. So I really do not discriminate.Unknown Speaker  6:36  I named it that way. Because too often, you know, we sugarcoat microbiome, right? We made it pretty. But I think we're entering in a world of microbiome, we got to tell the public and the consumer what it's all about. And that's why I wanted it. First of all, I thought it was funny. I mean, this is like a tough topic, right? People come to us as gi doctors, bloated, gassy symptoms of you know, bowel changes, etc. And so we hope to, we have to explain to them and how do you explain a topic like the microbiome, without, you know, a little bit of humour to digest it a little bit better? My opinion, that's what I that's why I named it. So to give it full transparency. And then the other thing was to, essentially, you know, make people smile, because there's so many jokes you could say about it.Ken Brown  7:30  I heard you on another podcast where you're exactly right. As gastroenterologist, we have no problem talking about it. But I have the same issue with patients. They're like it was so embarrassing. I don't want to discuss this. I'm like, we have to discuss this. And then that goes from that to Okay, well, as long as you're comfortable with it. Here's some pictures.Eric Rieger  7:49  Not all the time, like no pictures, please. Okay, sometimes randomly the nurses they showed up with the bag.Unknown Speaker  7:58  Field great. I mean, you know, you probably know Neil Stallman, right? Yeah. So Neil, when I was a fellow at University of Florida, and I was presenting my research on visceral hyperalgesia, which was super clean, would come to me and say, You better start getting your hands dirty, because we're going into the ship business. I said, No, please, they call me Gucci girl in the GI lab, because if it's dirty, if the colonoscopy was not clean, I was out of there. I'm like, sorry, we do the prep, come back next week. I'm not cleaning the patient, right. And then the mere mention of having to actually play with tools and putting it in there was just something I never ever thought that would even happen to me. And, um, you know, when a patient is about to die from C diff, and you tried everything from, you know, antibodies after antibiotics to, you know, clinical trials, and that was my, my path, right? I was doing clinical trials, and Neil was doing people transplants. And we met when I was doing a clinical trial on faecal material in a capsule because every time I would do a clinical trial for pharma, if the pharmaceutical product didn't work, I would do faecal transplant, because I would say, Well, you know, the patient trusted me to heal them. And whether they got placebo or the drug didn't work, it's my obligation to make sure they're fine. So I would do people transform them. And then I discovered all these things. And of course, I you know, I blame Neil in a way for stepping into this because I've stepped in fully and every day I play with it, I can tell you the first time I I was, you know, looking at collecting stools, I think I almost passed out. But then you develop you know, that survivor or that, you know, warrior mentality that you're like, I can do this, I can do this. I went into gi I'm tough and blameless goes I can do this. And that's what happened.Ken Brown  9:59  So I'm really curious about your history. Can you just give us a little background about like your family and where you came from who you're married because I find it all really interesting. Your, your past is fantastic to where you are right nowUnknown Speaker  10:13  increasing the volume. So I'm I was born in Morocco. My parents, you know, my background is pretty much a mud like Spanish background German, you name it. It's all mixed in Italian, I was happy to see on 23andme I have some Italian blood and Greek. So I'm a mutt. And essentially, my parents immigrated to Montreal, I was raised in Montreal, went to medical school in Nova Scotia. My siblings all went to McGill and wanted the McGill route. And I went down housing because I didn't want to, you know, in my family, you had to live at home if you're going to college in Montreal, but if you go to college elsewhere, then that's the only exception to moving out of the house. So I said, Okay, I'm going to Dalhousie and Dalhousie was, was fun because it was you got into the rotations of, of medicine right off. You know, from day one, you were seeing patients. So that was kind of fun for me. And then I was gonna go back to Montreal, and I had a cold and I was interviewing for positions for internal medicine and gi for internal medicine, I don't even think I was going to be a GI at the time. And I got an interview a University of Miami Jackson Memorial Hospital, and they paid for my plane tickets, because they love Canadians back then. And they paid for my hotel. So I said, Oh, free trip to Miami. And then I show up in Miami, and I'm interviewing, I'm doing the interview. And they're telling, they're showing me like a room of 10 CAT scans, and you know, just like beautiful hot. I mean, you've been I don't know, if you've been to Miami Jackson Memorial, it's it's a city in itself. And back then, I mean, we had one CAT scan and the whole country of Canada, I mean, show up in my app, and you've got like 10 CAT scans in the room, and it's like, and then they sell you on Miami, and they're like, Oh, you could live in, you know, on the beach. And then you could go to the hospital, like, I'm there. I'm coming. So I showed up. And that was during the, the world of HIV. You know, that's when HIV was really, you know, really starting and all right, I remember here I am this, you know, kid that my parents kept like in a, you know, protected and clean environment. And then I'm the move, I'm moving to Miami, and I'm dealing with, you know, HIV, like 12 HIV patients a night and patients are like throwing blood all over the walls. And you remember the, I don't know, you're probably much younger than I am. But, you know, this was this was war, right? And so, me and Neil and my colleagues from Miami, we we trained under those circumstances of patients coming and crashing from HIV, kind of what we're seeing with COVID. Right?Ken Brown  13:04  It does have some and yes, I did have that we had our aids Ward where you would have to rotate, and then you have to make sure because their CD forecasts are so low that you you know, so you didn't want to give them any microbes that could hurt them. We just didn't know back thatUnknown Speaker  13:20  you didn't know. And we were so scared, right? We were if we got pricked by a needle, we, you know, you'd hear the residents like chopping their fingers. You know, going into a room of a patient that was altered mental status and being dressed like an astronaut going into space. And I met my husband, by the way, in Jackson Memorial first day of internship. And we became best friends because we were on call together. And it wasn't like scrubs or er, although kind of, but it was kind of fun. We were together we like work hard and do call and then we'd go party after on South Beach. So we met under this circumstances, and I think some of my best friends and you know, I've been married to my husband almost 30 years. So I think that really that environment really, you know, bonded us forever The memories, my colleagues because it was really survival. And he used to joke because he used to say, you look like an astronaut going into space. Going to see these spaces are like I'm not coming because we had TB resistant TB and HIV. We had all sorts of infections in that hospital. So it was really Warzone. And at the same time, you're treating these patients that are swallowing bags of cocaine, and in condoms, right and you have to like wash the bag evacuated. So it was really it was intense. I mean, we were I was taking care of your HIV patients criminals. I mean, it was just it was a interesting times but it forms you and makes you you know, a top doctor that you can do survive, you know, helping people no matter who they are. Right. So I think that that was it was great for me. It was a great education. It was great. And then in Miami and residency, some guys said, because we were, my husband wanted to go into cardiology, and I said, Well, maybe I'll go into cardiology. And then some guy said to me, you know, we don't take an eye and I said, how's gi his gi a good feeling looks kind of fun. I mean, it's like surgery but without doing surgeries, and he said, we don't take women in gi so don't bother well. That's all it took.Ken Brown  15:40  In there on challenge taking you ripped off your space suit room is roomful of AIDS people vomiting blood me like I'm gonna do giEric Rieger  15:52  the lion You sound like you're talking shit. Let's talk shit.Unknown Speaker  15:56  So basically, yeah, and back then gi and it was actually a miracle because back then gi was like the the flexible StG where you're like, touching your like, baby, you train with that. You were still you were probably kaleidoscope. IKen Brown  16:12  am actually a few years older than you. And so I went through everything you're saying I'm 100% dead. But I will say this, you've got way more guests than I did. I interviewed at Miami. And I went I looked at the volume and what was wrong because Miami had that they had more than a bigger HIV population, tonnes of age, lots of trauma, all that stuff. And I'm like, I like the warp. So I was training in Nebraska and I just got sick of the cold. And so I just moved south, I just drew a line from California, Arizona, across and it basically Texas is like Midwest but south. So I just but Miami I was I remember thinking, Oh my gosh, if I do residency here, you're just you're just not gonna sleep.Unknown Speaker  16:53  And actually, I was sleeping because I came out. So I was a Canadian train. So we trained with like physical exams, right? you examine the patient, you actually say, oh, gallbladder problem just by doing, you know, Toby's face and percussion, etc. So, you know, it was much faster for me to take care of patients. So me and my husband used to have like, gone, you know, he would, he would come in the column. He's like, you're sleeping, I didn't sleep. And I'm like, Oh, you know, and then we would have this competition of who would discharge the patient and treat the patient the fastest. So there'd be a board. And it'd be like Hasan and Steinberg and HIV patients and I'd be like, I'm giving them this, this, this, that and that. Okay, they're fine out of the hospital one day, and then it'd be like zero. He's in 20, Steinberg and thenKen Brown  17:42  eventually he just made everybody DNR and just flowing out.Unknown Speaker  17:48  He was it was a you know, it was it. We do things for challenges, right. I mean, we do things. Why do you go into medicine? Otherwise, if it's not the treat, that's what bothered me with this whole COVID is like, was the idea of doing nothing. I the patient's having shortness of breath, oxygen, the SATs and you do nothing? I couldn't understand that mentality because you have to try.Ken Brown  18:12  So I have a feeling that this we're just going to go all over the map here. So I'm going to get right off because there's something I was super impressed that you did, you gave a lecture on COVID and ivermectin way back. So now ivermectin, now, all these things were being said, are now coming to light and going, what the heck, why don't we? Yeah. How did you realise ivermectin fairly early.Unknown Speaker  18:36  So it was I started the protocol with the hydroxychloroquine, which went completely political. And my idea was, well, makes sense, right? That's kind of like what we do with H. pylori, multiple drug combo. So I thought, well, hydroxychloroquine azithromycin would be killing the virus and then vitamin C, D and zinc would boost the microbiome, right? So in other words, you kill but you boost right? So you we we bring the balance. And so Dr. Berg when hydroxy glow. At the same time, Dr. Brody said you know what, I think ivermectin is a better solution, because he was investigating himself. And you know, Dr. Brody is the man we all follow for his leadership on faecal transplant, but also he was the one the brain behind H. pylori and triple therapy. So he was the one that said combination therapy, and he's big on combination therapy. I mean, he's used combination therapy for two patients in Parkinson's, he published on that. So, basically, for me, it was following his direction. And he said to me, you know, what we need to do ivermectin, doxycycline zinc. And I said, Yeah, but you got to add the vitamin C and vitamin D. Nothing should be done without vitamin C, and D because you're killing the virus. And in fact, the microbiome is going to tell the story, and it's going to be amazing, because I showed the data to Dr. Ayman quickly, and you know, Dr. COVID,Ken Brown  20:02  right. The Godfather of probiotics,Unknown Speaker  20:05  yes. And and by the way, he was like fantastic data. Fantastic. And he's on my paper that's coming out. So yeah. So I got I got Dr. bozkurt from Turkey. I got Dr. Brody, of course in the paper and even quickly, so and it's basically blank, blank, blank susceptible marker for COVID-19. And we know we're going to show in the microbiome why ivermectin is working. Oh, that's cool.Ken Brown  20:39  So both Eric and I are big fans of the podcast. Brett Weinstein the Dark Horse podcast. Yes. And he had the critical care doctor from New York, pa Corey. Yeah, up here. And I was just floored because, you know, like all of us. We, we there's only so many hours in the day and we do quite a bit of research and I'm and ivermectin caught me off guard. I went, I was like I was, I was behind the curve on that one. I looked back and went. How did I miss that? How did I miss ivermectin? That's why I was so impressed that you were on it right away.Unknown Speaker  21:09  Yeah. And by the way, when you see what is doing to the microbiome, it's going to be as clear as life because what happened is because I have a CR O, and I'm able to put these protocols through pipelines through the FDA. And by the way, I did it because I had enough of pharma. You know, I had enough of putting these products and then you saw with the Alzheimer study, this Alzheimer drug goes into market, and the benefits are like, you know, what's going on there. So I said, we need to have doctors lead the path for pharma. In other words, doctors come up with these solutions, and bring them to the FDA. And so I kind of started this with COVID was more of a lead to show it Look, I'm taking combination therapy, and I'm putting them through a pipeline, I wrote the protocol and I submitted to the FDA and the FDA approved it right off the bat. Then the FDA then had second thought, because they said, Well, you need to have a placebo, and I said a placebo and COVID in the middle of a pandemic. I'm like, that's like. And I said, we're in the middle of a pandemic. Rome is burning. Are you asking me to use a bucket that doesn't have water? On the fire?Ken Brown  22:30  Okay, the house is on fire. I'm going to give you a bucket. Yeah. And you're gonna get a bucket. Now go put it out. Yeah. And then walk one of those bucket was gonna have water and one's gonna have nothing makes gasoline. More than anything, because we're talking about COVID here. I mean, it's like giving a placebo is like giving gasoline.Eric Rieger  22:48  Okay, so some burning Sinan fire truck. And over here sim school bus?Unknown Speaker  22:52  Yeah. So that's basically what happened. And then I started, when I submitted these protocols, I said, Okay, find the, the placebo is going to be a vitamin. So we did vitamin versus the other thing. But what we discovered is when we started looking at the microbiome and looking at we found COVID, in the stools, whole genome sequencing presented at an american college of gastro and then it got published, took six months to get published on gut pathogen, because they couldn't believe it. Right? They were, what is this real, we had to like submit, it was sent to the who I mean, it was just too ridiculous, you know, long term time to get that paper published. And so when we started looking at the microbiome, we discovered something in the microbiome. And we discovered something in the microbiome of those that were super sick, compared to those that were not so sick, compared to those who never got COVID to begin with. But yet we're exposed to patients with COVID. So we said, Wow, if this is a susceptible marker, so it was so basically became like a susceptibility marker, right. And so we determined that if we don't know the baseline of the microbiome in a patient, and we're giving them placebo, and that person has those microbes are super high. In other words, where's your immunity in your gut, right? And your immunity at baseline is super high, and I'm giving you a sugar pill? Well, of course, it doesn't matter because you already have like super strong microbiome to survive. COVID So is it fair to compare a placebo to a person, you know, that doesn't have a good microbiome? You know, you're comparing like an athlete running a marathon to a person on a wheelchair. Unless you know, the microbiome, you're really doing placebo controlled trials useless and COVID in mind,Ken Brown  24:47  you're bringing up something that is, I mean, could be a complete game changer in how pharma would do and type of research in the future. Yes, because what we're saying what you're saying is, if You do not have. And we've discussed this kind of stuff on the on other podcasts. If you do not have a diverse microbiome, are you able to take full advantage of these medications that we believe are helping because the FDA determined that there's a safety profile on it, therefore, it goes to the second trial. And then just like you said, in phase three and four trials, you're 6% better than placebo. So because of that, it's now a $14 billion drug that got bought by a bigger company.Unknown Speaker  25:26  Yes, absolutely. And we are entering into a world of research now, that is no longer research. In my opinion, medicine is no longer an art, it's a business. And that's scary to me, because that's not why I went into medicine. I'm sure that's not why you went into medicine. We're all individuals, we should all have an individual treatment. We have the technology now, especially with what we do with Regina biome, to understand with precision, these microbes of the individual, and the future is beautiful, because it's going to be a readjustment of microbes to attain that precision medicine. We need to get there, we can't be stopped, because roadblocks is what stops innovations and stops answers. And we got to keep asking questions and say, is this is this correct? Is this safe? Why are we doing this? Why are we not? The moment we stop asking questions, we stop science, we stop research, we stop finding answers. And then in my opinion, humanity is lost. I mean, you're talking about diversity. Look at the diversity of microbes. Over the last 100 years, we've gone from diverse microbiome to now an diverse look at 1980 the rate of autism was one in 2000. Now it's one in 20. In New Jersey, something is happening in the microbiome that we have to pay attention to and is it the herbs we're giving? Is it these vitamins that are over the counter and supposedly have the vitamins right? Or is it the probiotics? Is it the right probiotics, the wrong probiotics? So I think all that we need to fine tune a little bit more.Ken Brown  27:06  fine tune is an understatement thatUnknown Speaker  27:09  sure, like people come to you and say, Doc, I want I'm on this probiotic. And you're looking at this bottle and you're shaking your head, right. Probably. Dr. Hasan,Ken Brown  27:21  have you met Kiran Krishnan from microbiome labs? Yes, yeah. Very, very, very smart microbiologist. We had him on the podcast and we discussed this exact thing about the fact do you know if it's alive, do you know that you can get a a railcar, you know, like one of those big giant crates for like $2,000. From who knows where and then anyways, we went into the whole aspect of probiotics and how easy it is to make your own probiotic. Yes, put your label on it, but you have no idea if it's gonna do that, you know, you have no idea if there's data it's gonna survive. So absolutely on the same page. bacteria in the gut that's live is dangerous, in my opinion. Yeah. And that's in your book, your offices. It's funny, because in your book, you you had a brief segment about how people in the desert when they would get I don't know, dysentery, they would eat Kagame. And Kiran brought up that exact same thing. oil based, soil based people figured out early on that somebody got sick, they would eat the camel dung, and they would get better. Yes. And you brought it up there, which was fascinating.Unknown Speaker  28:27  To the soldiers were stuck. I forget where but they they had Calera and that's how, you know, the Bedouins told them. Just eat the apples from the camel, which is really the poop from the camel, and they cure the colour all of a sudden.Ken Brown  28:45  Isn't that crazy?Unknown Speaker  28:46  I know. We're not going to go into that because I don't think people want to eat that. But I think we can understand the microbes that are play. Right. So that was my thing is we're heading up.Ken Brown  28:58  I just saw Eric trying to order a camel off Amazon. No,Eric Rieger  29:02  no, no, I've got a coupon for camel apples. Oh, that's what it is.Unknown Speaker  29:05  I already trademarked sisters of Camelot. I was in Jordan with my sisters. And we were on camels. And of course, you know, they're pooping all over. And it came to me. I said, I need to analyse the stools. So of course, I took my eye because I did bring some kids with me. And I'm taking it. I took it home and looked at it. So I said, Okay, we're starting sisters of Camelot. But we're not going to start that because I'm my plan not to make people eat pizza becauseKen Brown  29:36  of you. You're the reason why when I'm coming back from a from a country and in customs, they're like, Did you bring any animals? Do you have any food? Do you have any camel dung on you? And I'm like, why would I have Canada? No.Unknown Speaker  29:50  It was me. It was me. Actually one time my husband brought in an apple to an island and actually we got fine. I think they got the memo. They were like Dr. Hasan's come in, there's probably some microbes in there, stay away. $200 fine.Ken Brown  30:07  Alright, so we got so many things I would love to talk about. But I do want to really hone in on progen ibiam for several different reasons. Number one, I am also trying to run a different company and you know, have all this stuff, you've got a lot of stuff going on, we got a lot of similarities and how your enthusiasm and your need to keep your curiosity forces you to start other companies to sort of meet the need that you're trying to find. So can you please tell everybody what progetto biome is?Unknown Speaker  30:36  So progenitor biome is a genetic sequencing lab, what does that mean? It basically looks at the microbes, the genetics of the microbes, so the fingerprint of your microbiome, kind of like your DNA, but the DNA of all your microbes that co exist and cohabitate in your gut. It's so when I explain this, we have a choice. When we look at the microbiome to look superficially, it's kind of like scuba diving and being at the ocean, in the top of the ocean and seeing guppies or going super deep into the ocean and seeing the life and so we go super deep with every patients. So we can look superficially and do a lot of patients with that cartridge. So when we do genetic sequencing, you have to take that stool sample, which is the size of a fingernail, and then we have to tag it and do library preps are called and then we put them on these cartridges, and then essentially the cartridge we have a we have a choice, we can use the cartridge and do multiple development and see the surface. Or we can go deep, deep and use that same cartridge into the depth. So we go into the depth of the microbiome, to look at the microbes a species because that's what we want. We want species of microbes because we as doctors understand species, you know, to the rest of the for the forever the world of microbiome has been from acuities bacteroides. Right? But that's very superficial. So if you remember microbiology you go phylum class, order family, genus, species. I don't want to be at the phylum phylum is like looking at Planet Earth, right? I don't want to be at the class. That's like looking at London. I want to be almost at the family to say Mr. And Mrs. Jones, but I really want to see the species to see the kid of Mr. And Mrs. Jones, who has autism, the species tells the story, right? Because when you see mycoplasma for the first time, which is a cellular doesn't have a cell wall, and you see 40,000 sequences or 40,000 mycoplasma shapes into the microbiome. You say this kid has mycoplasma, and that's the cause of his problem. Maybe, right? Because then the next step would be, well, what is mycoplasma succeeding, and is mycoplasma. So creating something and therefore active in that patient, or it's just a dead organism? But even if it's a dead organism, why does that kid have so much relative abundance of that? So really, it's looking at the species and understanding the species yesterday, I was excited because I had a Crohn's patients. So remember, for Crohn's, I'm always looking for mycobacterium tuberculosis, right? Because that was Dr. Brody's idea. That map is the cause of Crohn's. Right? But when, but other scientists have come in and says said, well, you're sending your your sindhya and turistica is the cause of Crohn's. And then others have said, malice sees your firfer. And so you look at all that and you go Well, which one is it is a mouse, he's your first and your semi analytic as a map. So it's important to look at the species. And when you look at the species, you start going, Wow, this patient has a lot of eco lie a lot of Shigella, a lot of demopolis. There's definitely a dysbiosis there, right, because we know that these microbes have been the culprit of problems E. coli, chronic urinary tract infections, you know, Shigella, you know, all these bugs. So when you look at the species, and you see the species, and you can kind of make a correlation, it helps in the diagnosis and helps guide you with the patient. And so, to me, that's what it was basically. So that's why I started 42 clinical trials, we're actually up to 59. Now on every diseases, because it was that look, every time a patient comes in with Crohn's, we would say, Crohn's database going there, but what we discovered from the beginning with progetto biome when we looked at everyone, and that was something that made me think, you know, what's out there like you biome is not legit, because they're comparing individuals to others, but we're all different. How can we be compared? So what we so the first thing we discovered Regina biome is we're all different, which, you know, I know, you know, by common sense, right? We all have different fingerprints. How can we have the same microbiome? and Why would my microbiome that was in Jordan, B compared to someone that lives in Greece, right? Completely different microbiome. But why am I healthy with this microbiome? And this person is not healthy with down microbiome, right? That's the million dollar question. So we started noticing, well, if we are all different, how do we compare? How do we understand the microbiome, so the only thing that you can compare is really within the family. And then the other thing that you can compare is within the individual. So whenever you have a product that you want to give it, you have a patient with Crohn's, and you attain a cure. And that was my thing that I would speak about at conferences, attain a cure, understand the microbiome, right? Because if you attain a cure on the same patient, and you see the microbiome before and after the cure, you know that something changed in the microbiome, and what was it that changed that obtain the cure. And so that's basically my bath is, is looking at families. And then from there, once you have like a group of microbes that you've identified and said, Okay, well, that makes sense. This is the bugs, these are the bugs that are related with Alzheimer's, because I've improved the patient's memory. And now these bugs have disappeared. Now, let me look at other groups and see if those bugs are in those patients with Alzheimer's, and let's come up with an essay. That's a formula. So ideally, what I want is the dictionary of all the bugs with diseases.Ken Brown  36:43  Let me back that up just a little bit. First of all, it's super fascinating. And there's a lot going on here. But as the as gastroenterologist, and I know that my colleagues get this, I get second opinions. And so they'll come in, and they'll just hand me this pile. And in evitable, II, there's some sort of stool analysis. And then somebody will circle things and then say, you need to take this supplement for this, this supplement for this this supplement. And I've always just flipped it over and said, I'm sorry, just because we can analyse it doesn't necessarily mean that we need to make recommendations on this or that we can manipulate it. You're saying, just to clarify is that progen A biome your company is doing a much deeper dive and making the association with diseases, yes, with the person that comes in so that you can at least develop a trend and start to predict how or what I need to do for it.Unknown Speaker  37:43  And the other thing we did is basically we created an assay that we felt were the 25 actually 15 most important microbes for disease. And we validated that. So what does that mean? We took microbes that were cultured, we bought them, and we put them through the pipeline. And lo and behold, see this was seeded because we had the microbe. So that's validation process, right? The second thing we did is we verified the validation process. In other words, let me repeat that to sample Am I getting the same value? And then let's reproduce it right. So let's reproduce it at month one that's reproduce it by someone else, another technician takes on the same standard operating procedure of how we develop this asset. And basically, we produces the asset. So I was very vague at the beginning. And I hired a genetic sequencer, PhD physician, who is actually behind the bracket gene. And his genius, who developed the essay for me with me. And I said to him from the beginning, I said, Listen, I want to be able to give you a stool sample, and I want you to be able to reproduce the same thing. In other words, I give you my stool sample today, tomorrow, next year, it should be the same fingerprint, the same exact colours. Because if you I'm giving you a stool sample today, and in a month, I'm giving you another sample, but it's no longer the same colours, and the same fingerprint while you're comparing apples and oranges. And that was the whole problem with all these sequencing lab because I remember and again, you'll see them and I would call them because like you I was getting patients that would bring me Sue samples, and I would say what does that mean? I mean, like bacteroides in your gut, what does that mean? And I would call I would call Neon is like nothing, it's all bogus. And I know there's a whole holistic path out there that has looked into this, but you know, they have their vision but unfortunately, you know, we need to bring the holistic and we the idea that holistic healers have achieved and bring in into gi to understand it with the microbiome In my opinion, right. Bring everything that's out there and say, Okay, well, we all see this from this guy and this from this guy. Let's put it all together to say, yes, this is accurate information. This is valid, verified and reproducible data, because everything in science, you have to reproduce it right? If I do faecal transplant on a patient that's has alopecia areata, and my patient grows hair like Dr. Colleen Kelly. Then I've just reproduced Dr. Colleen Kelly's data. And I can say, Well, I did this ABCD like Dr. Kelly, and I got ABCD the same thing and my patient blue hair, right. So reproduction of validation, verification, and reproduction of data is very important in research. But, you know, the problem is just too many we live in a world where people want to just fast, fast development of products fast sell, you know, like sell a probiotic, sell this sell that. And we've stopped the research because it takes time to do research, but it doesn't have to take time to do research.Ken Brown  41:06  Where you're gonna say something? Yeah,Eric Rieger  41:07  I had a quick question is, so you've talked about the microbiome. And obviously, you've been able to look at different diseases and then figure out where they match up. And whether the same somebody it's kind of interesting to me, though, is that locally, that makeup of that microbiome, of course, is at the local level in the colon. But they've all looked at the second level and tried to map out that it also matches not just in the makeup of the microbiome, but what those post biotic metabolites would look like. So that the systemic responses are also the same to mimic what what the makeup isUnknown Speaker  41:44  absolutely an excellent point. There's so the microbiome is different at every location in the coalmine, that what we're doing is really a beginning of seeing what it's looking like at a deep level. The next step that we're going to do, and we're going to be working with a company that developed a capsule that is guided that takes a sample of Seoul, from every different locations, where we can show with precision that the stomach microbiome looks like this, the small bowel microbiome looks like this, the seachem looks like this, the transverse colon. So that's going to be coming because that with that technology, hopefully we can deliver precision microbes to those areas to achieve cures in the future. And, you know, capsule endoscopy, I was the first one Well, one of the first doctors to start using it. And that was the first time that we saw that I saw myself a parasite floating in the small bowel. That was a revelation, right? When you look at the, the sequencing of the microbiome, and you see all these microbes, and I said that I found c diff in my gut, um, you start going, Wow, this there's a mystery there that needs to be figured out. Yeah. Because the microbiome is everything. You're you're born with a lot of good microbes, you die with very little good microbes, right? You live, and then the microbes consume your body and put you back into the earth. So from the earth to the earth. I mean, we're proving that with the microbiome. So even on a and I think for me, the biggest lesson about the microbiome is really that diversity is key to life, key to health. And I was just speaking on the microbiome at a farm polyface Farm that's really big on regenerative farming. And so they believe in diversity of farming, they believe in, you know, coconut, you can't just put like avocado trees, you got to put the avocados with the blueberry trees with the tomatoes with everything. And it's the diversity that creates the beauty of the soil and the amazing, you know, matrix of microbes underneath the ground that feeds us really.Eric Rieger  43:55  So yeah, they they try to discourage monocropping now, because it will destroy the soil. They wanted, they want to switch it up. Yeah, right.Unknown Speaker  44:04  Well, you see, Amazon jungle, they tried to do that they tried to utilise things from the Amazon jungle.Ken Brown  44:11  So one more time in your book, you're you're not discussing the examples that you have in the book. But I was just thinking you had that great section on we should be doing green burials because what we're not doing is giving our microbiomes back we have micro biomes are trillions of microbiome we should give them back to the soil so that then other you know, it'll fertilise plants. We shouldn't be embalming ourselves. We shouldn't. We should be green burying and let that happen.Unknown Speaker  44:42  We should, we should. So that's what we should be doing. I have someone at the door but I'm gonna ignore them. You can go get him. You can.Eric Rieger  44:49  I am on bring him on.Ken Brown  44:51  Let's listen, we have some reach. Maybe Dr. Brody saw this and said I'm gonna fly over there and see Right or Yeah, that would be great. Do you have one quick question about progetto biome and then IUnknown Speaker  45:12  talked to Dr. Brody like every day two to three times a day times on love the man will have toKen Brown  45:19  genius I've never personally met him obviously read tonnes of his tonnes of his work even quickly I've met a tonne of times and you know he's just so nice and so approachable and everything. Quick question for you not for Dr. Hasan but to Sabine is it Sunday now you're sitting clean, it's fine. So being the how I built this aspect. So as a as somebody that built presented by him, how did you think about organising like that stuff? That's that was really intimidating to me. How do you how do you build a business?Unknown Speaker  45:51  You know, I built it basically, I just my attitude with everything in life is I just jump in, and I just expect, you know, to find something. So I basically jumped into it. I saw, you know, it was it was during the Woolsey fire, the whole backyard burned. And I was in communications with Dr. Feingold, who was the father of bacteria in anaerobic bacteria in the gut, he actually wrote the book anaerobic infections. And I was in communications with him because earlier on, I had done a faecal transplant on a patient who had Alzheimer's and he remembered his daughter's Date of Birth six months later. So to me, that was one of those, you know, and Dr. Brody likes to call it Martians. It's one of those Martians that comes in your front door and you say, wow, there's life on Mars. And so I called Dr. Feingold. And so what am I seeing? When I change the mind? Which microbe Am I seeing when I changed the microbiome in a patient with Alzheimer, and he remembers his daughter's date of birth. And Dr. Feingold said, You're seeing this bacteria that I cultured for so many years, nobody wanted to take on the study and to support it. So I'm giving you the protocol. Get yourself a next generation sequencer machine gets yourself alive, a scientist, and he showed me the path, right? He was 97 years old. And he showed me the path he gave me the paper. And then he put I put it in my Sage because I said, Well, I'm not going to start a genetic lab that's like, you know, at least a couple million. And so what happened is he passed away during the Woolsey fire, my whole backyard burns. And the family calls me and they go, Dr. Hayes, and we want to give you like all the books of our dad, and he signed all his books. So I had like, I have about 1000 books in my I picked up I took a pickup truck, and I picked up the books. My husband thought I was crazy. It's like, our house is burning. And I said, Don't worry about the house. I don't care. This is more important that this is like a seat. This is his work. I wanted to take it on. And I felt like and I felt like it was like tag you're it right. And about a month later, I started communicating with Dr. Brody because Neil had introduced us at ACG and said, oh, by the way, Sabine also cured Crohn's disease with faecal transplant. And he said, what he took my card, and then called me in December, and I said, By the way, I got the paperwork from, I got everything. And I found a couple of patents with you and Dr. feigl. You guys were communicating together those wonderful man, wonderful scientists, brilliant mind. And I said, Well, we got to continue this. And then he said, by the way, I'm working with Dr. Adams, who's publishing a data on autistic children post faecal transplant. So I said, he said, Be ready. You're gonna have the flood. This is Dr. Brody. I'm autism, I don't even know anything about autism. No way. And then next thing, you know, I start my lab. And I told my husband, I said, we're not rebuilding the backyard. I don't care about the house. I'm building a genetic sequencing lab. So he goes Sure, honey, and my if you know, my husband, my husband's a great guys, cardiologist. You know, hi, doctor. Amazing. And he's like, yeah, sure money, do whatever you want. You want to analyse shit, go for it.Unknown Speaker  49:15  I said, Okay, I'm buying a machine. So, and it was kind of at that point in my life where, you know, my, you know, you your kids are growing up and you've done the raising and they're blooming on their own and you're, you know, at that point where you say, Okay, well, what is my life mean? I'm no longer a mom. Okay, great. I'm a GI doctor, I do research for pharma. But now farmers getting into the shed business, and we don't even understand it. So I saw this light and I just said, I think this is my path. And then lo and behold, everything was just opened up. I mean, my first case of faecal transplant was a patient with metastatic melanoma. That I submitted the protocol to the FDA, the FDA thought I was crazy for wanting to put stools in a woman's body Hold on who was dying, but her haemoglobin was seven. She wasn't eating anything. She was dying. I had to fight with them to let me do it. And I saw her starting to crave chicken nuggets after the faecal transplant, the same cravings that her grandson had. So that was an open an eye opener for me. She ended up living a lot more months than she was supposed to, to to begin where she should have died within the month. But I think the faecal transplant really helped her and I think we're seeing that with, you know, MD Anderson's work with faecal transplants, and chemo, etc. So I think that was the path. I didn't really think of money because people always ask me, Well, how do you support it? How do you venture and I said, Well, let me create a nonprofit. So I created a nonprofit. And then next thing, you know, I wrote the book was shali. And, and everything, like even Shelley came to me in my office, it was just like divine intervention.Ken Brown  50:56  Shelley? Who is Shelly, I don't know her.Unknown Speaker  50:58  So Shelly is an author, she writes, you know, she writes books. And she, her husband, was a friend of mine. And we started talking, he's a pilot. And he said, you know, and I said, I need to write this book. And he goes, one is why don't you have Shelly, I'll pay you. And she puts it in the book. And she wrote, I helped Dr. Hayes and get her shit together. Because this is what happened. I gave her all my stack of papers. I said, this is chapter one. Let's start chapter one. And then she started. So as she was building, and we were building dog book. And then Dr. Brody, of course, every time we had a chapter, we're like, what do you think is that said, it's like, I like the quotes I like, you know, because he's very much into, you know, quotes and old quotes from, you know, people in the past. So we started, you know, writing. And then at the same time, I started building these protocols. And I had a team of writers that I basically, I had my, my, my main writer that I said, you know, let's start writing these protocols. And little by little, it was built, and I and Andrea showed me from day one, a patient with Crohn's disease. And he showed me the microbiome, and I changed the microbiome, I played with it with certain products like you that I believed could change the gut. And I was able to reach a cure in this kid, and I was able to see the cure in the microbiome. So before and after. And so when I saw that, I said, I have something. And then I saw see this in 17, the first 17 patients, I saw c diff, and all of them. So I said, you know, maybe we're wrong about C. diff May, and I and I actually challenged the industry, the infectious disease doctors, because I said, maybe we all have C diff, and maybe it's what we give our gut that kills off all the microbes, the diversity, that causes c diff to start succeeding, it's toxin, right? And so, you know, infectious diseases are very pragmatic. They're like, well, if you didn't call to it, then it's not there. And I can't say, Well, how do you culture a dead bacteria? How do you take a tree that's dead and expect to plant it? It doesn't work. I mean, you almost have to culture it anaerobically, right. And so I said, well, but the next generation sequencing shows the whole genetic sequence of the microbe, right? And then when we did RNA pipeline, which is the you know, so we have a bunch of pipelines when we look at microbes, right? So we actually can do a DNA pipeline that looks at our bacteria, or we can do an RNA pipeline, which looks at the bacteria reproducing. So if you see a microbe is reproducing, and you see it high in the messenger RNA pipeline, then you know that this microbe is active.Ken Brown  53:48  That that's that's a game changer. That's awesome. Yes. Nobody showed it. Nobody. Nobody's ever said that before. Because I remember mark, you know who Mark Pimentel is and cedars? Yes, I know, Mark. So I remember Mark was describing Well, when we're doing these stool studies, where basically it's like going into a neighbourhood and looking at the trash, and then making these assumptions about what's going on inside. That that's just trash is what you're looking at. Oh, the mRNA that's huge. That's big fish.Unknown Speaker  54:18  Yes. And then the metabolomes is the next step, right? Are those microbes to creating something like the sofa Vibrio in the gut, right, then we know that sofab embryo was linked with autism from Dr. Feingold. So he thought that the sofa Vibrio or Clostridium perfringens could play a role with autism. Well, when you see the sofa Vibrio in a family in one kid that has autism, and the rest of the family doesn't have autism, and don't have it, but the kid has 40% relative abundance of the sofa of embryo you don't even need to do metabolomic studies on that because you know, that there's that The problem most likely, and then that good faecal transplant would be a solution. Oh, that's, that's so cool.Ken Brown  55:06  I talk to my patients that, especially people with certain food cravings are battling their weight and stuff. And I'm like, well, it could be that you're not really it's not really you and controlled your microbiome, would you discuss briefly your two daughters? In your experience?Unknown Speaker  55:20  Yeah. So. So I took antibiotics, my young, my old, my oldest also, and, you know, I have a hard time I used to eat like, in Miami, I used to eat the whole tuna subway, and you know, would not gain a pound naito cucumber, and I get a pile. And my little one eats 5000 10,000 calories. Sometimes she'll eat like a one o'clock in the morning, the whole pizza, and then an apple pie doesn't gain weight. She's a toothpick, right. And so we looked at the family microbiome, and actually, there was a group of microbes that is potentially the obesity marker. There's also a group of markers that are potentially the cholesterol. And so this is a new world, right that we're entering. So even with Alzheimer's, we're seeing similarities in the microbiome. So we need to understand, but more important, I think, then understanding the microbes isn't is understanding the environment of the microbes. Because you saw studies when they do so we know that when we do faecal transplants, we are achieving improvement in patients, right. But you saw the studies where they remove the faecal material and they just had the liquid then they implanted it and they still got improvement, right? So something in the substance, something in the environment, the substances, I think, make a big, big difference. It's all gonna make sense to you. When you read the paper with ivermectin.Ken Brown  56:44  I'm so excited. I just I'm literally like thrilled.Unknown Speaker  56:49  Vitamin C and vitamin D, because I'm going to be writing Linus Pauling was right.Ken Brown  56:54  That's coming. I agree. With everything you said. I have a couple quick comments. Number one, your doorbell rang. And he did tell you that emotion would show up on your front doorstep that could have been, and Oh, well. And then I got a I have a I have a quick story for you. Yes, that we were interviewing a fellow. He was from Yale. And this is gonna be about eight to 10 years ago. So before faecal microbial transplant FMT was being discussed. We're out to dinner with them. I've took them to a nice steak restaurant here in here in my city. And I was asking him about his research. And he goes, Well, what we're showing is and he's talking, and the waitress was there, and she was like, This is interesting. And she was listening. And she was a little bit obese. And he goes, Well, we're taking stool from skinny mice and giving it to fat mice. And those fat mice are losing weight. And then vice versa. Right, like, no, that's so cool. Because like the first time I'd ever heard of it, he was doing the original research on this. And then the funniest thing happened. She was once again I said she was a little overweight. She looks over at this busboy who's all about six for 120 pounds. She was Bill, you are the sexiest person in this restaurant, right? Cuz he went on to say that if you live with somebody, you end up sharing the microbiome. Yeah, and she yells to this poor guy was probably like, 17. She's like, you want to move in? You want to move in? A little premature, but I don't know. Maybe she wasn't. SoUnknown Speaker  58:25  hey, you know what I do every day as a routine. I take my little one my 17 and I rub my face to her. I'm like, I want some of that microbiome on my skin. That's the best lotion right there. I mean, I don't need to put lotion on my face.Ken Brown  58:38  Your I'm scared that I'll ruin my kid's Mojo by giving them my kids,Unknown Speaker  58:46  my little one who actually is a hyper metabolizer. That's what I call her. I asked her to donate stools from me. I said, you know, your skills could be worth a lot of money, because that could cure for obesity. And I said $1,000 for one sample Scarlet. She's like, Nope, not giving it I'm not going to grab it. She's like, I'm not going to be a rat lab. Mom, she gave me one sample. That's it. That was all.Ken Brown  59:10  That's it. And this is this is not hyperbole. In your book you discuss about how the marathon runner they took his store he gave it to mice, and the mice immediately with no extra training could run 13% moreEric Rieger  59:21  than they could before. Before we publish this episode we need we need to get shit studying calm. have it ready to go?Ken Brown  59:31  Well, I will give you credit. A lot of the things that come across you do trademark it's like you'll just like call your trademark attorney and they're just trademarking everything.Unknown Speaker  59:41  Yeah. Because so yes, it's it's kind of funny because I, you know, in medicine and you know, you come up with an idea. A businessman takes an AI takes your idea and make something out of it. And then you're like, wait a minute, that was my idea how many doctors have I seen over the course of my career that have come up with cures, and a businessman came, took that cure and made it a business and the doctor now, you know, Dr. Feingold, his book is the beginning of so many pharmaceutical companies, because that was without his book. Without that foundation, none of these pharmaceutical companies, you know, existed. And, you know, the fact that he had to struggle to get money for his research and keep putting all his money into his work. It was just not okay. And so when I started this, and I started the company, I said to myself, first of all, I'm trademarking everything. And I learned from the best Dr. Brody, because he said, patent everything, trademark everything, because they will always say, somebody will take your idea and try to make something out of it. So the man is genius on multiple level. Yeah.Ken Brown  1:00:57  And the fact that you actually are doing what people don't realise is that you're going down this microbial path, a speaker microbial path. And to get these studies done, you have to file these nd eyes, these new drug sounds like that. Yes, I end that's it. Yeah, I end in Yeah. And that's, it's super expensive. And they make it they make it difficult, or maybe they do on purpose or not, I don't know. I mean, obviously, as as an investigator, where we have to deal with that a little bit with our supplement, we kind of skirt the FDA, but we still have to walk such a careful line, you want to talk science, but if you start talking too much science, then you have to file that ind andUnknown Speaker  1:01:40  and I think, you know, it's not hard to file it's not hard to do it. I think this is where doctors need to join forces because really, um, you know, we lose when we don't work together when we were in residency and internship we were collaborating together to fix you know, what happened with COVID was really sad to me because the collaboration disappeared. All of a sudden, the media is telling you how to take care of your patients, and the politicians and the whole time it was like, wait a minute, the moment the politician can tell me what the Latina does in COVID, or Rosa Yuria or fasula, bacterium, press neiti let alone they should probably spell fasula bacterium proxy, never mind what it's doing. The moment a politician can tell me that, then I will respect what they're saying or immediate person. But the reality is we're entering a world of microbes, I think we should let the people that are in the microbiome world, lead that path and lead the treatment. At the end of the day, achieve success listen to the people that achieve success. You know, those doctors on the front line that realise different methods to to meet, forget ivermectin, let's talk about others, right. kosha seen, you know, cheap solutions be that cyanide, you know, eliquis all these I think those were hints right? When when I have a patient that's oxygen saturation 73%. And I'm freaking out because the patient doesn't want to go to the hospital, but I know he's gonna die on my shift. And I don't want him to die. I'm going to do everything in my power. So I'm going to give him everything I know. And then I'm going to call, you know, my buddies. You know, Brian Tyson say, Brian, what did you do with this? And then he would say, you know what, I've this. And then Peter McCollum. What did you do on this? And so I think this is where the collaboration of physician comes into play. Because we are the ones on the front line, taking care of patients. And at the end of the day, who do you trust with your life? The doctors that guided you this way? Right. I trusted with my life. Tom perrotti. Let me Yeah,Ken Brown  1:03:50  I just want to ask a quick question on this, because I saw that you have done presentations you have submitted for different trials. You've done this, have you? A lot of the doctors that have had the guts to do this have had backlash. Did you receive any backlash from social media, from the media from anything?Unknown Speaker  1:04:07  So I'm because I'm working with the FDA oversight. And right now we're doing actually clinical trials with the Department of Defence sponsoring it, which is another product altogether? I've not had the backlash as much, I'm sure I've had backlash when I tried to advertise to get patients. You know, definitely my there were criticisms and you know, and I always try to stay under the radar as much as possible talking about treatment. I'm more the microbiome girl and I don't think anybody really knows about the microbiome and if they want to go one on one with me and start trashing me, bring it on the ship is going to be caught starting. And I call the book and in January because let's talk shit because I said Look, I couldn't be full shade or I could know my shit. But I think I know my shiftKen Brown  1:05:02  to that is awesome.Unknown Speaker  1:05:04  So we'll see. I mean, it's a it's a path. It's a, it's a discovery path. It's, it's, it needs to be done. And I think I say to people, if you stop the innovation, you're going to be the patient coming for an innovation that's not going to be happening. You know, right now we get how many patients do get probably as much as me that wants faecal transplant for Alzheimer's, for Parkinson's, for autism, etc. You can't offer it. We're not there yet.Ken Brown  1:05:31  So let me ask you this. So you've got your lab set up to do a really good job. We were doing it heavily. A guest standing for this podcast, Dr. Stuart Ackerman, him and I did a few of these super intelligent doctor, my colleague who trained in New York, we were lucky enough to steal him and bring him over about five years ago, he jumped all in on the on the faecal transplant, and he signed up, he did everything. And then like overnight, he said, Well, this was like, in between the FDA saying it's a drug and this and then he was able to get the frozen capsules. And then it was like overnight, it became cost prohibitory because something happened with the lab. And we just quit doing it because we couldn't get it approved insurance wouldn't pay it suddenly, it was super expensive. Right?Unknown Speaker  1:06:17  So that's the peer pressure and the lobbying power, right? of lobbyists that basically, and I'm gonna say it out there because I think it needs to be told, you know, there is a lobbying movement that is basically stopping these, these drugs, these, these cheap solutions. And I think we need to stop that we need to fight as physicians for that because the moment we stop, you know, trying to do what was right for the patient, faecal transplant being one of them. I think all of us that were doing faecal transplant join forces in the microbiome meeting, the Malibu microbiome meeting that you probably saw, because of the fact that we saw that our ability to help patients were being cut. We were doing, we were helping patients we were doing using a bank that was good. And that ability was cut. I think, you know, the onus is to go from that product that was sold of open biome to go to Finch, right, which is now a pharmaceutical product, then, you know, that's fine, as long as you know, the data shows that it's working, etc. But I think you know, stopping the right to try and doctors from doing faecal transplant or scaring them, you know, I still do faecal transplant, you know, who's gonna stop me? I mean, the the FDA, you know, has said you can do faecal transplant for C diff, provided you do all these things. And even if you want to do it for autism, you have to submit an ind, well, I just have to write the ind, I have to follow the protocol and follow the guidelines. Nobody's gonna stop you if you're doing things the right way.Ken Brown  1:08:03  So you don't have to wait for them to approve the ind. JustUnknown Speaker  1:08:07  wait for them to approve the ID. But for C diff, you can do faecal transplant. You just have to f

Eric Rieger  0:00  Gut Check project fans and KBMD Health family. How are you doing today? It's your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. This is episode number 56. And if you've heard 54 and 55, which we've gotten plenty of email about, thank you for all of that. You know that 56 is kind of the combination here. So we're talking about issues around erectile dysfunction, and more or less kind of the catalyst that causes it as it pertains to inflammation and systemic disease and certainly virus infections. So that being said, go ahead and dive in here to 56 I think that there's a lot of hope here. There's a lot of things that people can actively do to stave off some of these manifestations because that's what erectile dysfunction is it's it's a signal that something else is happening. So without further ado, let's get to our sponsors. Of course there is artron to get your daily poly females that are trying to go to love my tummy calm again. It's love my tummy, calm us, slash KB MD and get your daily poly phenol today developed by my co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. Dr. Ron teal is chock full of polyphenols does not matter if you have gut issues if you suffer from IBS or related symptoms or you're just a a an active athlete and you want to optimize your daily health so that you can be your best you need polyphenols, there's no way around it. So are trying to go to love my tummy.com slash KB MD. You got great tasting food, unrefined bakery go to unrefined bakery.com because it does not matter. If you have a specialty diet or not. unrefined bakery can make things available to you that maybe you thought were now impossible because you are celiac, or because you're paleo, or because you're keto? No, they have cracked the code using all natural ingredients. Go to unrefined bakery.com Get yourself some bread, get some tasty, tasty bread, knowing that you're both celiac and paleo. You can do it there. And it's gonna taste great, so unrefined. bakery.com use code, gut check and save 20% off of your very first order. They delivered to all of the lower 48 states even though they're based here in the DFW Metroplex of North Texas, so unrefined bakery.com Last but not least, KB and D health.com. kb MD health calm is the home of the gut check project. That's where Dr. Kenneth brown makes available his own CBD as well as broccoli and artron. teal, so check out KB Md health.com. Use code GCP and save 20% off of any order at any time. Okay, without wasting any more of your time. Let's get to episode number 56.Hello, Gut project fans and KB MD Health family hope you having a great day. It's me Eric Rieger here with the awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's Episode 56, a continuation of 54 and 55. So, Dr. Brown, why don't you kind of set the stage for us?Ken Brown  3:32  Yeah, so this is part three of what we didn't really realize it would turn into a part three series, right? That part one of this particular series. So Episode 34, was that I was seeing so many patients that were coming in. And because of the job that I have being a physician against neurologists, they're willing to talk about certain things. They're young men that had never had issues were showing up with erectile dysfunction. months, like eight months after having COVID. They want to know if there was a correlation. Well, because of that, I started looking into things. And then we actually did find that there's some studies going on with this. And so it's going to be much bigger than what people think we're just a little ahead of the curve on this. So Episode 54 was about how it's doing it. Episode 55 is a natural ways to try and protect yourself and Episode 56. It's a continuation of that. As it turns out, there's tons of science on this. And if you just look and you know where to look and you have access to people that can get these articles. It's fascinating. fascinating, because what we're talking about is not just a reptile health, we're talking about overall health. Every one of these topics that affect Well, if something affects your penis, it's probably affecting other parts of your body.Eric Rieger  4:44  Yeah. If that were to happen, it would probably affect your mentation, your mood, your drive to do a lot of things. So yeah, it definitely it's everything is universal. Everything that seems local is really universal. Yeah, vice versa.Ken Brown  4:58  Yeah. So it's We're gonna go over some really cool stuff today.Eric Rieger  5:02  So just briefly personal Eric anything cool going on man we're still remodeling kids are fine. Marie's on a, she took a trip to Montana she's on her. They were hired her social media conglomerate that she built is the Montana filming awesome stuff that probably looks different than a GI sweet I kind of wish I was looking at it.Ken Brown  5:23  That's awesome. For me. Same stuff we're remodeling, no big deal only issue is is that with some countries in some states having different COVID stuff, my kids want to start traveling more, but I don't know if that particular country would is going to cancel the tournament. And I'm trying to rearrange my schedule to go and book flights. It's just so annoying. And what a privilege to say that the what not, I mean, honestly a privilege to say it's annoying that I'm trying to plan a trip, although I'll be extremely important for my kids. We're in a position here in Texas where most of the economy is opened up. Oh, yeah, yeah, there's still places where everything shut down. So if you're a restaurant owner in New York or California, it's still super difficult. And I'm kind of complaining about the fact that I can't book a trip because I don't know if that country is going to, you know, do some blocking haveEric Rieger  6:18  been talking about this today. But before you walked into the room with one we had a patient from Canada, originally from Canada, so as a sister who lives there, and she was sharing with us that they are still you it's almost like textile blue laws out there every day. So you can't go into a Walmart and shop on the side of their textileKen Brown  6:38  blue laws. Me. Ah,Eric Rieger  6:41  so then in the old days, and I think even a New Jersey, in this, it's changed, it may still be the same. On Sunday. You can't buy certain textiles. Really? Yeah, it's just a blue law. I mean, I don't I don't know. I don't I don't want to talk out of turn there. But back in when I was really, really young, you couldn't couldn't go into a mall and shop at like a dillards was closed on Sunday. So yeah, I we don't do that anymore. No,Ken Brown  7:07  we don't cuz that's like the only time I'd be willing to go to a mall, like, really early. But, but really, Mother's Day anniversaries come on? Yeah, I have the moles that are, youEric Rieger  7:20  know, no one in my household. But what was interesting is she said that in the Walmart, for instance, is kind of a universal way to break it down, that they have blocked off or quarantined off, anything that's not food related. So you go into the store, and you'll see everything rubbed off, you cannot go over there to make a purchase or anything like that. And that's it. That was in Ontario, Canada. So I don't know if that's universal for the entire country. She just knew what her sister was relaying. And so if you're watching this, this is recorded. May 19 2021. It's starkly different here in Texas, where our governor released here recently that we're at the at the low, and everything's pretty wide open,Ken Brown  8:06  it's pretty wide open mass are no longer require they're suggested. And I don't think we're seeing a big bump. I talked to the doctors at my house. And they're like, no, we're not seeing a big bump COVID. Now, of course, IEric Rieger  8:17  live in a more rural setting in you do. And as far as what people say, is wide open, quite frankly, 1010 miles west of me is, I think has been wide open since a year ago.Ken Brown  8:30  It's just it's fascinating. Because we're gonna look back at these things. We're gonna look back at our first COVID episodes. Oh, yeah, we were with everybody else. But I felt like we were looking at the data ahead of the data that was being discussed on national news in Fauci and all these other people, because, shockingly, we were pretty spot on the whole time. And I think I hope that people when they walk away from this podcast can realize that this is not a politically motivated, or really, I think that a lot of things that we come to we don't know what the answer is going to be, or are certainly open to the we're going to change our mind.Eric Rieger  9:05  I think in a moment, you're gonna ask me a little bit about cbds, kind of the heads of he gave me but I'm not really sure where we're going. But years ago, you and I both had doubts if it did anything. And now I would say that we were open enough to try and you've got to be able, I think, to be intellectually honest with yourself when you have something new or information to make sure that you're receiving it, and you're evaluating it and not just putting up a wall because it disagrees with where you are currently.Ken Brown  9:34  100% I mean, I think that that is when you talk about the cognitive dissonance, or Oh, yeah, how's your views are different than mine? I'm going to shut you off before you're we did a whole episode on anger or agreement and how much of your brain gets occupied when you disagree with somebody and you're trying to combat it? Because you one of the things I notice, in fact, I noticed this with this podcast, because I heard I heard Joe Rogan talking about it, you know joselyn To be a really good listener. I mean, one of the flaws of what we do here is that I have all this science, I want to make sure that we get through in a timely fashion. And sometimes when we're talking and we can have like, great conversation, I'm kind of looking at my notes going, Okay, well, we need to make sure that we cover this because this is this was on my agenda. Sure. I'm listening to you. And now just realize that I do that I'm going to work on that I'm gonna work on listening, as his most recent guest said, We teach in school. reading, writing, arithmetic, and speaking and listening, but not listening. Yeah.Eric Rieger  10:37  All right, I certainly younger version of me definitely could have been a much better listener. And I think it's active. I mean, I'm not even trying to be funny. It just, as I've grown older, I've learned that listening is a skill, listening to someone tell their story. And even though you feel like you have a story that relates to them, if they're really airing out something, don't try to match their story, just listen to them. And that's, that's I mean, quite honestly, it's been difficult for me growing up because you feel like you're building a common bond. Oh, that happened to you. This happened to me. But you can see where that goes. When you're really young. It turns into a one upsmanship. And then eventually, you're like, well, I don't want to tell them anything. They just tell me what they did was 10 times better than what I did.Ken Brown  11:21  Yeah, I'm really, really guilty of this, as pointed out when on my 50th birthday met Jr. and Brian, and it was the running joke was me storytelling. It's just like, oh, you went 10 minutes without talking to your boss. Like, oh, yeah, I'mEric Rieger  11:40  gonna work on that for now. Hey, man, but the greatest thing is, it's not that you did or didn't do it in the past, it's in everybody can do it. And it doesn't have to be about storytelling. It's, what is it? Who do I want to be? And how do I get there? And what things can I improve to make it easier?Ken Brown  11:54  And as we're always doing the show, all these things are mental improvements that people do. But there's so many times when people have health hindrances that have pain, or they're not sleeping well, or that is the least of their concerns. Definitely, you know, I mean, I try and control my diet, I try and meditate, I try and do some breathing exercises on a daily basis. But it's because I have the luxury of not having severe health issues. That is not the primary concern, right, because I went for about two months, as we discussed last time, where my primary health concern was my severe neck pain. And that just shut everything down. And the only thing that I could really wrap my brain around was okay, you need to figure out how to not panic, right. And by practicing those things leading up to this, when that happened, I felt like it kind of helped me get over the acute phase of it. And now I'm into this kind of new aspect of now we're rehabbing soEric Rieger  12:55  and I don't want to derail that. analogies are just something that I've always liked. And we You and I both build on these throughout every single episode, we find an analogy, but something that was realized that occurred, I can remember being young, and we were complaining in elementary school, it was it was something really silly had to do with participant participation, and how you could earn to be the first one out at PE or something like this. And there was someone in our class who I didn't feel like it, several of us didn't feel like it earned the right to do it. And then quietly, our teacher pulled us aside and said, this is the best thing that's happened to her because she doesn't have a home. Like what you have, and I started thinking a lot was wanting to get to PE first she just wanted a place to sleep. And when you're young, that kind of context is important because I mean, yeah, it was kind of shoved in our face, but it shows you that your I don't know I don't know how to put it the immediacy of what you think that you need or want. Sometimes somebody else may need or want that same thing but at the same time they don't even have you said your health so that you could do the exercises to feel good sometimes you don't have the base things that allow you to Oh, Peter, just do whatever. Oh, let'sKen Brown  14:17  talk about I mean generosity feeds right there. 100% I mean, generosity feeds Ron Kobani feeds kids that normally only eat at school, those are the only meals that they get when they go home on Friday. They don't eat until Monday. And recognizing that need and spending his life to correct that one. small niche is just amazing to me. 100%Eric Rieger  14:43  and shout out to Ron generosity feedsKen Brown  14:46  Yeah, and we're we're avid sponsors and have been for the last couple of years and I'm just so blessed to have met people like that, that inspire me to be a better person.Eric Rieger  14:54  Yeah. Now didn't want to derail But anyway, that just popped in my mind. Yeah. You know, you got That's what this that's what I think that we're talking about though how do you get to the point where you can make better decisions for who you want to be and how you want to be there and a lot of that comes from take care of your if your physical health and it will allow you to do that.Ken Brown  15:14  Yeah, that and you know, be open minded that the maybe your initial ideas as you grow and experience them What ifEric Rieger  15:24  when they can't be open minded because your physical health is bad. AndKen Brown  15:27  one of them that's today was today was open minded lesson I came across it You and I were we're scoping today and I came across an article, which I thought was entertaining. And then you became academic on me, which then now I'm like, Oh, I just want to gloss over right now. As as, as a fellow there's, you know, you go to residency and then you go to fellowship. So you do three as a residency three is a fellowship, depending on what you do. And it became a running joke between all these people that I basically did. I don't even want to compare it. But as we've discussed before, when you rush or go through basic training, or you do residency, you get very close to these people, because you're all have this common bond. Oh, yeah, you're kind of getting beat down a little bit. But you're doing it together, but you're doing it together. Yeah. So in residency, I had friends that became cardiologists nephrologist. I'm a gastroenterologist. And there would always be this running joke about who has the smartest organ, silly, nerdy arguments, the kidneys smarter than the GI tract, and so on. And I would always go will the anus is the smartest thing, it could actually determine, can your organ determine the consistency between a gas liquid or solid? No other organ can do that? No. So I've always said the innocent, smartest. And I was gonna joke around about how a new study just came out that basically makes my system the winner. And it starts with, I kid you not, it's a bunch of new sites that have come out citing a scientific study out of Japan, saying how mammals, mice and pigs at least have the capability of breathing. They said breathing through their butts was the title. I had to stop and looked at it. And it was an Associated Press article, or a BBC or a New York Times, they're all jumping on this, because it's a bit of clickbait. And you and I were talking about it today. And I said, Yeah, basically, the rectum, or the distal rectum absorbs is anything that's put in there so readily, that this, the scientists figured out that they could hyper oxygenate the rectum, while not allowing the animal to breathe. And the animal stayed alive and corrected, its hypoxia. And then you started asking all these scientific questions as an anesthesiologist should?Eric Rieger  17:51  I didn't know, I was just curious if oxygen going in is a very, very important part of the process. But at the same time, what's the vehicle or the means for the waste gas, co2 and other things to be blown off? Because as co2 builds up, you become more acidotic? And that's where organ systems can, you know, this is a gastroenterologist, they can fail. So they become too acidotic. And that becomes a problem. However, it turns into, I think that that question we were like, like, this isn't just a joke topic. This is something that Yeah, soKen Brown  18:25  I came in with a joke, I was gonna make fun of it. And they asked me questions. So then I had to do the thing that we do. And I tracked down the original article. And it's thick, and it's beautiful as the scientists should not be made a joke of which is what their bit what's being done. I guess any press is better than no press. But it's quite elegant. And I would like to discuss this in the future where you walk through this article as a, a expert in the acid base physiology due to your anesthesia training into how you can oxygenate, but it is kind of an interesting phenomenon where maybe we could use something like this instead of making fun of it and look at that and say, Look, in certain situations, maybe some form of rectal oxygenation hunter says, You and I talked about, because we're really into rectal delivery of other things. So which, which, honestly, decades or centuries ago would have been odd to think that you can actually give a medicine through the rectum. That doesn't make sense, right? Yeah. SoEric Rieger  19:31  someone did it. They demonstrated that it works. So obviously, they may be getting made fun of today. But who knows, if somebody has an injured lung? Maybe this is a way that you can help someone who's in distress. And I can't imagine one's going to do it voluntarily.Ken Brown  19:46  Why No, I mean, like, I mean, who knows? 50 years from maybe they will 50 years from now you may walk into a hospital code saying where the patient's crashing, and it's just like we need mouth to buy Right nowEric Rieger  20:00  I won't work. I will not work there. I've been called things where maybe people have thought that I must breathe through. NowKen Brown  20:10  that is, so that is an example of just being I came here to make fun of it. And then you started questioning the science. And I went, you're right. Whoa. So we'll talk about that some other time. I changed my mind, I'm I am accepting that. I should not hang on to certain ideas, because our knowledge changes our experience change. And if we as everyone should not just completely hang on to idea because the idea is not you. It's just an idea.Eric Rieger  20:42  Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. And I would also add that if in 10 years, I have all of the same beliefs and whatever that I do today, that I'm not grown. I'veKen Brown  20:55  learned nothing. That's a Mohammed Ali quote. I wasn't really Yeah, it really is. It was he? He's, he's a boxer. No, I think he was actually quoted as saying, Do you feel like you're the same man now than you were whatever, there were there. Were kind of implying that you're, you're 40. And it was 30. And his response was, if I'm the same man, I was then then I just wasted 10 years.Eric Rieger  21:17  Oh, yeah. Oh, I've heard that. Yeah. But I'm sure that's subconsciously in there somewhere. But no, I feel that way. Because I'm not the same person that I was 10 years ago, or 20 year old me, probably and I hate I wouldn't be free. Anyway, so what's up?Ken Brown  21:35  Alright, so let's get into some other cool stuff. We're gonna, we're, you know, this is the part three. It's there's a little bit of science here, but it all makes sense. And I want if you're listening to this, when I keep talking about the different aspects of either reptile dysfunction, or the CNS, or the endocannabinoid system, picture, how it works everywhere, it's not selective. That's the key to this. People are not putting this together, they're not realizing that you can take control of your health in a natural way. And it's not conjecture, it's based on science. So that's what this is. Okay, so to recap, in part one, erectile dysfunction, we showed that inflammatory damage from COVID actually causes erectile dysfunction by affecting the endothelial cells, which is the lining of the blood vessels. Part Two was how effective poly phenol zz are in working as a potent anti oxidant and blocking inflammatory pathways, which ultimately increases nitric oxide, and also activating the cert one pathway. So after we get done with that episode, okay, you and I went to the next room, and you started asking me all these questions about nitric oxide?Eric Rieger  22:55  Yeah, I did. Because you had, you had initiated, something I didn't. I didn't know. And I don't even know that I fully understand it. But that nitric oxide can exist in different forms just as the compound itself.Ken Brown  23:08  So as it is, it's like, shit I didn't have to answer. And so I'm like, Oh, my gosh, now I got to go down this, this, you have to lay the foundation to be able to understand everything else.Eric Rieger  23:17  Yeah. And just to add, you had labeled nitric oxide, and essentially, there was neuronal nitric oxide. I've already forgotten the other two thatKen Brown  23:27  I'll go through right now for you don't even worry about it. Because I think that's what that is the really cool thing. So when people talk about nitric oxide, one of the things that I have heard before and in our adaptive or in our innate immune lecture, we talked about how nitric oxide can actually be a pro inflammatory. And so meaning you can cause inflammation. So now I figured some stuff out. To make nitric oxide, there has to be an enzyme called nitric oxide synthase. These are a family of enzymes that catalyze what they do is they're the thing that makes the reaction happen to produce nitric oxide from an amino acid called l arginine. So nitric oxide is a cellular signaling molecule and it helps modulate tons of stuff like vascular tone, insulin secretion, airway tone, peristalsis, which is gut movement, and it's involved in angiogenesis, which is blood vessel growth, in addition to that neuronal development, meaning your neurons, and shockingly I did not notice it works as a neurotransmitter as well. So basically, we're talking the whole body. It does unique things in unique places. So as Eric was mentioning, there's three main types. There's inducible, nitric oxide, I nos. So I nos is a pro inflammatory nitric oxide synthase enzyme. So what it does, it helps acute insults so if you get infected by a virus infected by bacteria, your ionos will go up. And during an acute infection, it helps get rid of everything thereEric Rieger  25:09  does want to clarify, you're saying that's the enzyme not nitric oxide, I nos is the enzyme,Ken Brown  25:14  yes or no. So as it turns out, an imbalance of nitric oxide will result in oxidation. But we're going to get into this. And this is where it gets really neat. The AI nos has a specific role in making sure that there's an inflammatory process that happens. Okay, so I'm just saying that nitric oxide synthase. So if you're out there buying supplements, and you're like, oh, man, it's increases nitric oxide. You want to know, how is it? Yeah, arginine is at the substrate. Yeah, because if you're somebody with chronic inflammation, tons of inflammation that's going on, and you start beating yourself, Argentine, theoretically, you could be feeding your ionos. Because, like an acute infection with a bacteria or virus, you want this to happen, because you want to squash that. But if you have chronic inflammatory cytokines going on, it will actually induce more eyeness. So in other words, if you're chronically inflamed, yeah, taking Argentine could be fueling the fire that's doing it. So if you have chronic inflammation, I nos has been been associated with creating more of the inflammatory cascade, which results in more ionos, which results in a vicious circle. Ultimately, I nos is been implicated in being very high in autoimmune disease, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, and even strokes. So when we talk about nitric oxide, it is all about the balance and about where it's happening. And Angie sent me a really cool article explaining specifically about how certain cytokines will induce ionos. But that's irrelevant. Bottom line is, if you are chronically inflamed, and your eye nos is using this against you, so it's using your fuel against you, you have to stop the chronic inflammation first.Eric Rieger  27:05  That makes sense, though, because the probably the most notable activity of nitric oxide on its surface, regardless of where it comes from, is basal dilation and a key part or key component of an inflammatory process just like carrying away anything else is recruitment, recruitment of cytokines or whatever needs to be so it makes it makes sense.Ken Brown  27:26  Yeah, that that actually makes sense. And that was surprising to me, because I did not know about this until I started researching for this. The second type that we talked about on the second episode is endothelial nitric oxide, e nos. This is found in the lining of blood vessels. This aids in tissue repair, regeneration. And the key here is it enhances blood flow, and I did not know this. It dissolves plaques. Hmm. And it will dilate the blood vessel. Yeah, so we talked about this during the poly phenol episode. And it does this by several different ways, but it dramatically activates endothelial endothelial, nitric oxide synthase in us. And so that's one of the ways that does it. And another really simple way to do it is to have is to go exercise when you exercise, you release enas. And that's what allows for the blood vessel dilation and everything. Okay, I bring up the plaques because as we sit there and talk about if you have coronary artery disease, and you're put on Plavix and things like that, nobody's discussing this. Now. How do you turn on your emails, it gets rid of plaques increase the blood vessels. It's doing what these pharmacologic agents are hoping to do without the side effects of a cerebral bleed are these different issues? Interesting something to think about? If you can turn on the enzyme, which does this, then you can do it through exercise and or through various things. We're going to get into all of them.Eric Rieger  28:58  Something just popped in my head. Of course, we've talked previously, you've probably year and a half ago, about different diet intervals, fasting and intermittent fasting, and how those have been shown especially like water fasting for over 72 hours, I think it is, can demonstrate or they've shown that you can I think valter Longo talked about you could initiate the decrease in plaques and stuff like me. Is that related, do you think to enough? Actually,Ken Brown  29:30  I absolutely think that there is something about that. I think that there's some other components to it. Dr. William Davis discussed how as a cardiothoracic surgeon or cardiologist remember what he is. But he said that he's taking people that had 90% plaques and put them on a five day fast and then redid their AMG grant angiogram. Yeah. And it was clean. So there is something to this. So if you're going to do this, and if you have fast you turn on, I mean, I'm speculating. Now if you turn on your stem cells and you increase The nos, you're going to you need something to clear the plaques. Yeah, dilate the blood vessels. So you don't cause a clot. Think about that. It dilates. And if you've got plaques there, it shifts them off, and it's in a big pipe, so it doesn't stick. Yeah. If those plaques shear off into what we discussed in the last episode, where it creates the bumps, hung up is the thumb over the hose thing. It's the thumb over the hose. It'll just block it. So enough, very important. Interesting. Now, you and I are always about the brain. So now let's talk about neuronal nitric oxide and nos. This acts on the brain in the nervous system enhances the ability of the brain and nervous system to adapt to change, and enhance the communication between neurons and to recover from insult. So enmasse modulates neuronal function through release of neuro transmitters, when you said earlier, is that the nitric oxide, they have actually proven that and nos can do things directly. Okay, I nos can do things directly. He nos can do things directly independent of nitric oxide. Wow. Okay. And they get turned on for different reasons. So this has been shown to be involved in long term prevention of depression, and improved memory formation. So when you have en nos going on, and it's also part of the neural plasticity and regeneration. I'm a big fan of the Huberman podcast and he, his whole, his whole theme is neural plasticity. And this guy hasn't even talked about this yet. talks about everything else, but I'm like, calm and start talking some and so if you if you know him, or whatever it's yell, you know, you're not even talking in nice, man, you're just scratching the surface. But um, you could say it like that also. Alright, so here's the part that we were confused by. Okay. So your question to me was, I don't get how nitric oxide functions differently in different places. And I just stared at you blankly after our episode notEric Rieger  32:06  clarified not just as a molecule unless it's being contained, or specifically only releases certain time that that was that was our discussion.Ken Brown  32:13  Yes. So as it turns out, nitric oxide is nitric oxide. Okay. So it's not like there's different nitric oxides that we know of right now. But the different nitric oxide synthase is caused different responses. So first would be the amount of nitric oxide produced too much, and you can't clear it, it becomes a pro inflammatory,Eric Rieger  32:36  oxidized, right?Ken Brown  32:36  It'll oxidize, okay. That's the first thing and the second that each type of these enzymes can actually have a direct effect on the cells in the local area. So like, in the case of ionos, it can actually increase oxidative stress through superoxide production, or en nos can have direct neurotransmitter capabilities. So a lot of science just there. It's allEric Rieger  33:02  brand new, but that that brings some clarity thatKen Brown  33:05  it brings some clarity, which which will bring clarity to all these other studies I'm going to bring up and we're going to go through really quickly and by all I just made a few, but it it reiterates that what we're talking about and what you can do for your health is based on scienceEric Rieger  33:18  now that's fantastic.Ken Brown  33:20  Okay, so while I was figuring out all this nitric oxide stuff, this is actually where this went down a rabbit hole. I kept finding studies that they kept discussing the endocannabinoid system and nitric oxide. And I ended up going down some rabbit holes and discovered some studies on how cannabidiol CBD and the endocannabinoid system is involved in this whole process. And ultimately, how it relates to erectile dysfunction because if you're like this is part three of erectile dysfunction. I haven't heard anything about that yet.Eric Rieger  33:52  Yeah, well, it is where we talk to them as part of an inflammatory process check jack and is the ECS and have a problem with with too much inflammatory process? Yes, yes,Ken Brown  34:03  sir. It does. Alright, so ECS? endocannabinoid system. Eric, can you just recap what it is? Oh,Eric Rieger  34:10  no cannabinoid system we have it all throughout our entire body. It basically is the copyright strikes the balance between reacting to something but not overreacting. Let's see here. You got to get some some cannabis. Or I'm sorry, I'm gonna say the right the neurotransmitters that we have or the cannabinoids, endogenous Canada in the largestKen Brown  34:31  categoryEric Rieger  34:33  was tripping over my own words but so you've had an and amide into ag. There's the two main ones and then to augment that activity, you can take exogenous which means you consume it. cannabinoids, THC and CBD with CBD being the one that we legally use to attenuate or lessen issues of inflammatory process, absolutelyKen Brown  34:56  by increasing your own endocannabinoids and probably a little bit of direct stimulation as the science becomes more but yeah,Eric Rieger  35:03  see it so and like everything in the body, you know, neurotransmitters are consumed by enzymes. And so what CBD they think does it doesn't necessarily replace an end of mind, for instance, but I think what it does or it can do is it will stop some of the hyperactivity of the enzyme that gobbles up an animal.Ken Brown  35:24  Correct. So I think that's pretty much what you I think that's exactly what I want to hear. Yeah, that's, that's exactly. Alright. So knowing that the endocannabinoid system, if you've not read about that, or if you've heard some things about CBD, that it's shocking how much science there is on all of this, and how nobody really talks about this. And it changes and it changes. And it changes when scientists do stuff. But let's talk about this. Alright, so I found some really cool stuff going down this rabbit hole. At first, they were talking about three studies briefly out of the same university in Egypt, because I think that they knocked over the first domino and went, well, what happens when this happens? What happens when this happens? And it's actually really cool because it applies to humans directly. So the key to all these studies is how the nitric oxide synthase pathway was regulated, and it's regulated independent of the colon nergic pathway, which in the episode 54, we went into great detail about Yeah, so in other words, it's another way to stimulate nitric oxide synthase these guys figured this out. Okay, so the first paper that they published, looked at how the CB one receptor interacts with enough endothelial nitric oxide synthase, they were able to show that the how the effect by increasing a Nandha mind, the endocannabinoid that Eric just talked about caused relaxation in the corpus cavernosa. corpus cavernosum are the spongy, blood filled vessels in your penis that allows for interaction. It was not through us through acetylcholine, which is how every other urology book describes erection. Yeah, now one medical book that I've come across actually talks about CB one doing this. So this is fascinating about this. So and it is doing this by actually increasing inas, the endothelial nitric oxide synthase. So by stimulating CB one through an and amide, they could actually show an increase of the e nos. And this resulted in increased corpus cavernosum blood flow.Eric Rieger  37:33  That's impressive. For a lot of different reasons. Number one, that no one's really glommed on to it or captured it. It's understandable that while you were in training that it hadn't been discussed at all, because I don't think that the the idea that an ECS existed until the 90s, so that that's okay. And so now you've got to figure out where all these functions are. But what what I found already and what you said is a change in science and really changing the way that I'm approaching it is I thought that for the most part, cb ones were in the CNS, or just the, you know, the brain and spinal cord.Ken Brown  38:08  That's a really good point. Yeah, because we've always been taught that they say that CB one is or I'm sorry, we haven't been taught in the most recent books have been published that discuss how CB one is more related to the neurologic aspects. These guys are showing that now send your penis also.Eric Rieger  38:21  Yeah, I don't even just started. Sometimes what we get accused of thinking withKen Brown  38:27  anyway, I gotta study for that also. So then the same group said, Well, wait a minute, we've just discovered something really cool. So they said, Well, what happens in disease? So they took some rats and they gave them cirrhosis? I'm not really to really get into the details, whatever, get into the, you know, like the methods of the study. Okay, so I picture a bunch of really cool rats hanging out at a bar for hours on end. They're like, Hey, man, we're just talking about we got this great lab gig and they didn't know that there that they were causing cirrhosis. I think it was done in a very different way. But I don't think I imagined it that way. Yeah, that you can imagine that way. I'm gonna imagine it that way. So what they did is they cause cirrhosis in rats, and then they were able to demonstrate enhanced relaxation of the corpus cavernosum those spongy tissues. In other words, they showed increased blood flow, when the CB one system was activated once again using an and amide then they wanted to have the cause and effect. And what they did is they blocked the CB one receptor, and there was nothing happened. So it was definitely related to the endocannabinoid system, not some other weird thing that we haven't figured out. This is the cause and effect of this receptor stimulation. So the unique thing about this is even in a disease state like cirrhosis, it helped these little rats to have directions directions. Yeah. Which is interesting because they're talking about cirrhosis. And remember the episode that we actually debunked how the FDA came out and said that CBD causes cirrhosis? Oh,Eric Rieger  40:04  yeah, I recall that. And it was completely erroneous.Ken Brown  40:08  Yeah, it's completely erroneous. And it didn't make any sense at all. Where is that we got one of those apps. I don't even know what episode it was. But we actually talked about that. And this is an example of Look, this is a way to take a certain disease, which generally has severe erectile dysfunction and they're like, now if you stimulate this looks like you can overcome it in different way. So that's cirrhosis, but you're like, ah, only a small percentage of drunken rats gets a very small percentage.Eric Rieger  40:40  But unfortunately, that's not true either.Ken Brown  40:44  But there's a there's a much higher percentage of donut loving rats that have Yeah, so they got so excited after that first study that they did a third study where they looked at the endocannabinoid system in diabetic rats Okay, then they showed on this study that the first thing is once they made the the rats diabetic, their baseline endothelial nitric oxide synthase, Enos was lower than all the non diabetic rats Think about that for a moment, okay, by having diabetes, your e nos is lower. In other words, your ability to produce nitric oxide becomes lessEric Rieger  41:25  Yeah, and and all the ramifications that you talked about what he nos actually does vascular, you're losing that ability, you'reKen Brown  41:32  losing it, it's not just in your penis, you're losing it everywhere, and nobody's talking about that aspect, which is, why don't we focus on something to increase the e nos. Alright, so by adding a Nanda amide, directly, they showed increased vascular activity in the corpus callosum and increased nitric oxide consistent, proportionally to the increase in nitric oxide synthase or enas. Now this part is really cool. When they added Argentine l arginine, which is a substrate to make nitric oxide, it synergistically went up. Make sense? So if you have a proper diet, and you are have a balanced endocannabinoid system, even if you have diabetes, your ability to have an erection is should go up based on these animal studies. And you know, we're not making any claims here. I'm just saying, based on these studies, it's super interesting to talk about.Eric Rieger  42:26  Yeah, no, it's it's, it's fascinating. I mean, and let's, let's call it what it is the the meds that have been approved to treat erectile dysfunction, they essentially they got here, we talked about the five different ways or the five different things that have to happen for an erection to occur. Essentially, what viagara is doing is it's stopping the phosphate arrays from breaking down. So this is what that that was a valid mechanism to address. This is yet another, in my opinion, valid mechanism to addressKen Brown  42:57  Yeah, so viagara doesn't work until you've arched actually formed the nitric oxide, right. So once you form it, you can have a longer sustained direction due to not breaking down the nitric oxide. man you got to get it started someplace. Well, one great way to do it looks like is to make sure that you have a balanced endocannabinoid system.Eric Rieger  43:16  Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I've never heard that before. And right now,Ken Brown  43:20  all of this is, all of this is new to me. I've got to be totally honest. And it was all sparked off of you asking you a question. I don't really get the whole, why you can act differently. And then this led to these things. Thank goodness. And that's what I love about hanging out with you is that you ask questions. You got to I mean, there's times where you're not been there and you're just like, Why is the sky blue? And why is why do my feet feel so heavy and I just have to look up everything.Eric Rieger  43:48  I can't even come up with something ridiculous.Ken Brown  43:52  Alright, so then, here's another interesting study by a totally different group. They were looking at it in a more indirect way. So your response of which head is actually responsible for the sexual function. These guys took some of this information and I bring this up, because this is looking at the end neurone the end nos process or the neuronal nitric oxide synthase. They looked at how the endocannabinoid system helps improve neuronal and Nos. and in prior studies, it was shown that a NAND amide helps not only form and nos, but it also works to drive the nitric oxide into neuronal cells. So and amide goes, Hey, and nos we need some more nitric oxide. They produce it and then of my grabs, it shoves it in a neuron.Eric Rieger  44:47  Maybe I'm leaving too far ahead, but this sounds like neuroplasticity could be enhanced simply with a healthy ECSKen Brown  44:56  100%. So in this study, what they did is they took neuronal cells. And they showed how stimulation of the CB one leads to a massive increase in neuronal nitric oxide. Now, if you say massive, Well, isn't that inflammatory? If you have something that puts it in a cell and puts it to using us, it's been you. Yeah, it's not accumulating. Yeah. So the CB one receptor and the N nos protein have been shown to be in close proximity. So, and randomize here, cb one receptors here, I'm sorry, the nitric oxide synthase stimulation is here, a Nana Midas or the CB one receptors here. And when they're together, this is where nitric oxide will help not only the neuron that they live in, but since it can move over, and it is nitric oxide, which is a gas I guess. It moves over and it can work in what's called a parrot grind function. In other words, it can help its neighbors. So if a cell gets injured, yeah, and sends a signal and your Endocannabinoid is healthy, it'll stimulate en nos and say, let's get some nitric oxide over here Help Help my friend who's just been injured. Fascinating,Eric Rieger  46:13  very, and that's the first time that there's been any of this is very superficial, but it's the first time I've ever felt like there's context or who was it that was talking to us about CBD, and that they were studying it for Ms stuff. Because if you're thinking about how ms functions and the breakdown, a lot of that comes down to the schwann cells file and and she's breaking my own sheath. And so you're you're losing transmission, you're you're leaking it's there's no insulation on the long nerve. So what if that role of CBD in part is that not only is it staving off inflammation, but it's actually allowing other neurons in the area to donate help to one that is distressed? I mean, we're leaving here. We don't have that in front of us. But I'm curious.Ken Brown  47:05  That's pretty much what they're saying though. Yeah, that's pretty much what they're saying, at least in this animal model that interesting. So yeah, so this is where nitric oxide can help the neuron that it's in, in the neurons that it's nearby. So because the two receptors are nearby, that's how they actually do this. And then this is the leap for the indirect erectile dysfunction. This kind of surprised me also, they actually act on the so this is we're talking about the endocannabinoid system, cb one receptors and act on the gonadotropin releasing hormone. So the endocannabinoid system can help with both the neuro component of erectile dysfunction as well as the endothelial component. So by releasing gonadotropin releasing a by stimulating gonadotropin releasing hormone that results in an increased testosterone.Eric Rieger  47:57  That's fantasticKen Brown  47:58  or estrogen because it's again, a trouble releasing Yeah, everything's in balance. Everything is not black and white is the yin and yang of the body and you need enough of everything. That's the beauty of the endocannabinoid system. It's our great balancer. Like you said it was the it's the traffic cop that says more or lessEric Rieger  48:15  Yeah, as fans. Fascinating I've never heard this stuff.Ken Brown  48:20  It's I was pretty shot. This is this is what's fun about doing this podcast is that you pose a question and then I'm like, dang it. I'm definitely not staying up because sleep is super important. If you don't sleep, you screw it up. But I will wake up early and go, Well, I'm not gonna work out today, I'm going to go down these rabbit holes. All right. And so oh my gosh, there's so much more research out there that we can't even get into today. But like, like this title of this article that was published recently, cannabis dial induces on top of G to protect neuro neural cells from mitochondrial dysfunction by up regulating cert one to inhibit NF Kappa beta and notch pathways. That's the title. So we've talked about all these things, and it sounds super complex, and nobody would probably ever read this, but it's actually a really good read because what they showed is that CBD protects neurons by turning on the cert one pathway, which we talked about last episode, causing a toughie G, which is programmed cell death in old and sick cells, while down regulating inflammation through the NF Kappa beta pathway. Sounds freakley familiar to how polyphenols do it.Eric Rieger  49:34  Yeah, it really does. I mean, and you can throw in there the cuz I think that last week, we labeled NF Kappa beta as the black hat cowboy. Oh, yeah. And then we said that the white hat cowboy would be a nerf to NRF two. And so it, it seems to me like these are simply complements that we are uncovering that could Be a far more natural way for your body to determine. Look, just give me the tools for the tool chest. I'll figure out what things goKen Brown  50:08  100% another article I gotta read this title because these scientists need always in the titlesEric Rieger  50:17  thatKen Brown  50:18  they need a marketing agent. Let's get this know that that breathe through your bot is all over the news.Eric Rieger  50:27  Yeah, that's a click. That's a clickbait clickbaitKen Brown  50:29  and it's way more than that these guys put a title that says CBG CBD Delta nine THC CBN CB g a CB, d A and delta nine t. h ca as antioxidant agents, and they're in intervention abilities in antioxidant action.Eric Rieger  50:48  It's important stuff and no one's gonna read that. Bob, doKen Brown  50:51  you want all that in there? Yeah, I want it all. We're all out of seas. Yeah, we're all out of seeds. Alright, so the title is too much. But basically what they presented was that they reported the antioxidant activity of CBG, CBD and all those other ones. And they present a data to prove that all the examine cannabinoids named exhibit potent anti oxidant activity in their ability to scavenge to scavenge free radicals to prevent the oxidative process. So very last episode, we're talking about how polyphenols are potent antioxidants. nobody's really discussing how CBD and THC and CBG are potent antioxidants. But they the whole study is how they actually do it, how they scavenge free radicals.Eric Rieger  51:44  And it's brilliant, honestly. And it just, it just lends more credence to why it's important to have a healthy ECS. I mean, I know that those are all exogamous that you read off, I think for the most part, but they from what I understand that ECS to date, they really serve complement to your Endocannabinoid. So exactlyKen Brown  52:03  an exhaust meaning these are the ones that we take in through our diet, or through smoking or whatever if, if it's that, but these are the ones that we ingest that actually do that.Eric Rieger  52:13  Yeah. Fascinating.Ken Brown  52:14  It's totally fascinating. And then oh, my gosh, one last one, because this one blew my mind, as I'm sitting there looking at these different articles, and you're reading through them. And it's the sad part is, as we're preparing for this, there's only so much we can actually talk about right here. But like, I want to call people I'm reading I'm like, Are you kidding me? This is nuts. Like I want to call the guy that made that title and be like, here's the deal. Next time you do a paper, let me write the title for you. And it'll be clickbait all the way his scientific colleagues will just be like, what kind of title is that? And it's just like, CBD causes you know, decreased baldness and it's like, but that's not really what it's about. It's about the telomeres and it's about you know, the the flu avian cells and he's like, Yeah, but and this guy said baldness, and I just want to Pulitzer. Yeah.Eric Rieger  53:03  I mean, that's really what it comes down to. You've got to get it language that someone's gonna read 100Ken Brown  53:07  Exactly. Alright, so we did a whole episode on Brock elite. We did. So love broccoli. It's on the KVM the health store. And broccoli is the really world's only stable sulfur fame product. We did this with David Roberts and dr. john Gill de wickedly smart people, both of them. That's Episode 44. highly suggest that you go take a look at that. Because of that knowledge that we learned on that show. I was I came across an interview quite a while ago actually with a doctor Jed Fahy who, what's her name, Rhonda Patrick. And he was discussing how his research was showing that a there was some similarities between a isocyanate called more engine is similar to sulforaphane not quite but similar. And his reasoning for this is that it's actually it's a tree that's very abundant in subtropical regions. And they should be looking at this for adding it to diets of certain things. Then remembering that I came across this article, which led me to start looking at various things. And this thing popped up anti inflammatory and antioxidant effects of CBD and more engine and lipid polysaccharides stimulated macrophages. So lipid polysaccharide is a protein on the outer. It makes up the outer shell of a bacteria. It's what our bodies react to. And it's also what causes inflammation. So what they did is they looked at how do macrophages, part of our innate immune system respond to stimulation when they're exposed to these lipid polysaccharides? In other words, when you feed a macrophage a piece of bacteria, what does it do? And they wanted to see how it reacts to pro inflammatory markers like TNF alpha interleukin. Sex etc. And they wanted to know how exposing the macrophages to CBD in one arm Morrigan in one arm, and then what happens if you put both of them together and see what happens. So remember that CBD has already been shown to have anti inflammatory anxiolytic anti cancer capabilities. More ringan is under this class of glucosinolates, like sulforaphane, and these molecules, these molecules are potent anti inflammatory regulators as well, in this case, it's called an isotherm cyanate meridian from the poly phenol Moringa. Okay, you see how it's all coming together here. Alright, so bottom line is the results are pretty cool. The pretreatment with either CBD or meridian resulted in significant decrease in anti inflammatory and antioxidant effects from CBD and more ringan separately, with decreases in TNF alpha, interleukin six and all the other inflammatory cytokines that we talked about. But when combined, they showed exponential decrease in inflammatory markers, while increasing NRF to white hat and good cytokines like interleukin 10. So the combination also enhance the nuclear intracellular level of antioxidants. So it KVM D on our store, we had the biohack combo, which is atrantil, CBD and broccoli. They did a study on the biohack combo. Yeah, they did. This is crazy. And it doesn't mean that you're not gonna be able to mount an anti inflammatory response. It's that living in the Western world, you're exposed to chronic inflammation. Yeah, chronic inflammation leads to all these things. So lots of articles, lots of rabbit holes to wrap up. We started with COVID, causing a reptile dysfunction and affecting endothelial cells. Then we went to how do you protect that by increasing e nos and decreasing inflammation with polyphenols? And now we've wrapped up with how CBD can help with this. And ultimately, the combination of sulforaphane plus the polyphenols and atrantil plus CBD, according to these studies, likely protect both your brain and your endothelial cells, ultimately, protecting your penis.Eric Rieger  57:22  Yeah, ultimately,Ken Brown  57:23  that's a lot of science to say, don't let COVID take your penis. Yeah, it'sEric Rieger  57:29  a lot of science to say exactly that we probably didn't even need to have you science to say just that.Ken Brown  57:36  Probably that one statement alone. Be like a T shirt.Eric Rieger  57:40  Yeah, we could have just said that, and probably called it a day. But now that, honestly, all of that is fascinating. It's informative. But it makes it makes sense. And even though it feels like that we go to like a local focal point to john Miller gets address interest. It just, it forced us to find out, like you said about nitric oxide and the different uses. And really, it's it's still universal. It's still universal throughout the entire human body. These are things that we need to be concerned about. And yes, we're talking about a penis today. But that process is happening there. It's the same thing that can be used to protect your brain, protect your heart, protect the rest of your organ systems, so that you can do what we were talking about the very beginning of the show, which is what kind of life would you like to live? How do you get there?Ken Brown  58:28  So I guess if we were to talk about the mission of this podcast, I would say that, you know, we've always talked about healthspan. But now I've got this whole new process, you cannot truly develop as an individual if you're being hindered by day to day aspects that prevent you from leading a normal life. Right? So it's really hard to say you should meditate when you don't have food on the table. Yeah. It's really hard to say you should go exercise when you have heart disease, and you can't, you can't exercise. I mean, there's all these aspects. So I guess the goal of the gut check project is to improve the health span.Eric Rieger  59:13  Now how 100% I mean, yeah, it's You're right. I like those examples telling, telling a homeless person to take in more fruits and vegetables. That's exactly a weird thing toKen Brown  59:24  Yes, they need those but there are other pressing needs so that they'll need to address so that they can tell you a parent that was two jobs to the weekend that they can't be home and they don't have food to give their kids to make sure that their kids don't eat cheap food. That's whatever it it. Just it doesn't happen that way now, and if we can, if we can do something, something becauseEric Rieger  59:49  maybe maybe people who watch this show or share the show. It's not necessarily that we're talking only to you but if you share with someone else And you are on your pathway to becoming healthier so that you're more vibrant than maybe that's kind of where it starts. I'm talking about myself too. I mean, I need to be healthy so that I can help take care of people that I'll take care of same for you. And same for anybody who's watching or listening. So you can't help somebody if you can't help yourself.Ken Brown  1:00:18  Yeah. And this is a good example that if you follow the show, or if you have a question, the questions turn into. In my mind, all of this is new to me. If it's not new to you, then you're way ahead of the game. As a guest, right now,Eric Rieger  1:00:37  yeah, yesterday.Ken Brown  1:00:39  But if this is new to you, as well, then please like share, we will always do the disclaimer that everything I've talked about today I am a doctor Eric is a certified crna. But we are not giving medical advice, while all we're doing is trying to show that there is some science behind all of this. And we are passionate about trying to make people healthier, ultimately, not just physically healthy. We're not talking about looking good. We want you to feel good. And we want you to be mentally healthy as well, because all of it is tied in together. And that's what we keep doing almost every single time is we're like wow, every time we want to separate. We want to do a three part episode on the penis, it ends up being the bodyEric Rieger  1:01:23  100% brain, we want you to stay healthy, mostly so that you can stay around long enough to ventilate through your anus. So we'reKen Brown  1:01:31  gonna get to that one. I want to make fun of it. I'm just gonna Heckle you the whole time. You have to show me the real science about why it's valid.Eric Rieger  1:01:40  Okay, that sounds great. I hope it's in there. But no, I'm excited that they're gonna be a good episode.Ken Brown  1:01:45  SoEric Rieger  1:01:46  that's Episode 56. Thank you all so much for hanging with us from 54 to 56 on this particular topic, it's very interesting. Hopefully, it's helpful. We've gotten not surprisingly, lots of feedback on anything discussing erectile dysfunction. Now I know why Pfizer cares so much about war. So anyway, thank you all for writing in and we'll see you Episode 57. I don't think it'll be a continuationKen Brown  1:02:11  conspiracy theory. Pfizer also came out with the first vaccine knowing that COVID can cause erectile dysfunction is the vaccine only partially is not where we need to buy. Bye, everybody.

Today: North Lake Environmental Partnership is providing free water sampling early next month in Gary and Hammond, so residents can determine if their tap water is contaminated with lead. It is one of the lasting legacies of pollution in the Region. We’ll speak to one of the research team members working on the project -- Hope College (Michigan) chemistry professor Kenneth Brown. We have another conversation from the Welcome Project at Valparaiso University. U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs acting administrator Tom Murphy talks about some major changes the VA is making that can positively affect veterans' lives. And a Gary native and Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology graduate is joining with his wife to provide a scholarship program that will assist young people attend the private engineering school in Terre Haute -- youngsters who might not otherwise be able to afford college. We bring back our conversation with Mike Mussellem.

00:00 Blokes over 40 should reconsider polo shirts, https://twitter.com/PaulSkallas/status/1396597992933658631 04:00 Kenneth Brown feels exhausted, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ulz5HGioYE 10:00 Bitcoin's Troubles Go Far Beyond Elon Musk, https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/bitcoins-troubles-go-far-beyond-elon-musk 17:30 Secession 2.0? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaxShgPONcA 21:00 Was I bullied? 23:00 Sexual repression in 2021, http://sociological-eye.blogspot.com/2015/02/why-does-sexual-repression-exist.html 1:40:30 Mersh is skeptical of Mr. Metokur's cancer diagnosis 1:53:30 Apollonian Germ on Greg Johnson, Richard Spencer, Keith Woods, the Rothschilds, The Scamdemic & More, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxtmaLOk_0 2:20:20 Stephen Miller on illegal immigrants getting put up in luxury hotels 2:03:40 RICHARD SPENCER & ED DUTTON | The Collapse of World Civilization, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47mA9U9jlik 2:13:40 The KMG Show EP 303 I Have Returned, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Aecqtg0Bw 2:16:30 When You Buy The Top of Every Investing Trend, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oG58PiZ5U8 2:18:40 Hyperinflation is here… But has it just begun?, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CJyFKoTxEs 2:23:35 Tucker Carlson on the origins of Covid 2:38:00 Joel Kotkin: The Rise of Corporate-State Tyranny, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl78OxcY0kc 2:50:00 Bill Gates song 2:56:00 JF Gariepy says no reunion with Andy Warski, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOjTIwydMPM Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

Eric Rieger  0:00  Hello gut check project fans and KBMD Health family, I hope that you are having a great day today to host Eric Rieger soon to be joined by my other host, Dr. Kenneth Brown, and Ken Brown KB MD, he's the reason that we get to gut check project. So let's talk a little bit about this episode that's going to follow these announcements. And it's episode number 55. It's continuation of Episode Number 54, where we talked about men's health, specifically how inflammation from various diseases and, and viruses, for instance, can cause erectile dysfunction, and what can be done about it, maybe to recognize it. But what 55 is going to talk about specifically, is the continuation of what we talked about in 5474, we, we kind of delved a little into, you know why inflammation can cause such a problem when two people are trying to be intimate. And now in 55, we're going to talk about what actionable items you can take to hopefully avoid these situations. And if you're experiencing them, maybe you can try this and get over it instead of just always having to turn to pharmaceutical. So anyhow, of course, this is an informative podcast, so we are not your direct healthcare providers, butjust definitely want to share the information. So without wasting any more time, let's get into our sponsors, of course are trying to talk to kids browns, baby, and artron deal is where you're going to get your daily polyphenols, we talk a lot about polyphenols and for good reason. It's what the bacteria in your microbiome in your gut, what they not only wants what they need, in order to provide the post biotic materials and compounds that your body uses every single day to stave off inflammation to stave off disease to give you more energy to protect your telomeres. Why because that can actually be an anti aging mechanism. So regardless, polyphenols are what your body needs. artron teal just happens to be chock full of some of the most stable polyphenols known to man instability matters, because that's how the bacteria is going to get them to break them down and give you what your body wants. So are trying to go to love my tummy.com that's love my tummy.com slash KB MD. Pick up your daily polyphenols today. And of course, unrefined bakery, we've talked about it. And for good reason because unrefined bakery has incredible food and it does not matter if you need to avoid bread because you are a gluten free eater or you're a keto eater or you happen to be paleo. They specialize in those types of diets. And they make the right kinds of breads, desserts, treats, packs, snack mix, all of the things that possibly you thought you couldn't have any more why you adhered to a specific diet, unrefined bakery has unlocked industry and they shipped to all the lower 48 you can go to unrefined bakery.com that's unrefined bakery.com and use code gut check at checkout, save 20% off of your entire first order. Like I said, it's just great food doesn't matter if it's keto, paleo etc. They've got all of the different diet specialties spelled out on there, but they will deliver or shipped to your house. And, you know, check them out unrefined bakery.com delicious food, use code gut check at checkout save 20% Last but not least KB MD health name for Ken brown MD. And this has not only the store that features the three products that Ken has absolutely no problem standing behind Brock elite as well as adriaan deal in KB and D CBD. But you can leave us a message you can inquire a little bit more we're trying to build up a little bit of the content that we have on there but a lot of that's going to come from what it is that you want. So shoot us some more messages I know the way we produce the podcast but we're looking to see if we can't expand on some of that. So go to KB MD health comm check out the store as well as the archived podcasts and if you have any questions or just a comment to say shoot us an email from the button on there and we will do all we can to get back to you as soon as we can. So without wasting any more time go let's go to what I mean go to I'm taking us there we're gonna go to Episode 55 right now on the go jek projectHello gut check project fans and KBMD health family. It is greatAnd I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Ken Brown, what's going on, man?Ken Brown  5:04  We got Episode 55, which is part two of the prior episode that we did regarding Men's Health and some erectile dysfunction stuff. And it was really good timing because we got some pretty cool research to go over today, and it's all appropriate. So sit back, learn a little bit about how to protect your penis naturally,Eric Rieger  5:27  naturally. And so that's what Episode 55 is going to be about a continuation of Episode Number 54. But before we get into that, I think that we, we need to touch on some things that I know that you've been doing with someone who was actually on show.Ken Brown  5:43  Alright, so we always do a little personal stuff. Yeah. So what's been going on in my life? I got my stem cells. So shout out to Dr. Wade McKenna and his team, which by the way, his staff is awesome. Yeah, they are. They are absolutely amazing. So it's the first time I've ever been sedated. And so I've had two colonoscopies three and das cuppies, two of which I did on myself, which was, which was a gag fest. And I've always been the owl that we put people you put people to sleep right all the time. First time I've ever received propofol. Wow, it was amazing. It was like the coolest thing ever. It's like I just like suddenly two hours labs and Dr. Jerry Lewis shout out to him, it's a way brought him in and they were able to actually float a catheter into my foraminal opening, and I got pictures of this. And injected stem cells after doing a bone marrow harvest on me. I don't remember any of it, no pain. And quite honestly, I'm feeling really good. And it's only the beginning because I'm doing IV infusions now.Eric Rieger  6:47  So the crazy thing is, is working with you and st talking everyday like we do at work, etc. I saw when you had true deficit, like you really could not extend your right arm, the the tricep really was not responsive. Literally, Brown is standing while we were scoping, you were kind of positioning yourself to work the scope differently than you just normally would, because you'd lost basically faculty in yourKen Brown  7:14  yard. So what happened is, is that with the disc bulge, it actually compressed the nerve. I've got foraminal which is where the nerve comes out. I've got foraminal stenosis, and I was the swelling that took place from the disc bulge was compressing the nerve, and I didn't have all my usual strength and one of them being these six, seven when I saw Wade the first time Yeah, he was like all here's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, you're not gonna have tricep strength, you're gonna lose your medial pec Rouse, which is exactly right. And he goes, that happened to me years ago, and this is what I did. And Dude, that guy is such a stud. He had a back thing where he did his own bone marrow harvest taught his colleague, because he's the only guy that has done it this much said, this is exactly how you're gonna do it. And did his own bone marrow harvest, made his own stem cells and then had him injected in him? And I didn't want to say that was like 10 years ago or 11 years ago that question, yeah, you know, and he's, he's done well, so if you're somebody that has knee injuries, shoulder, for sure. Knee, low back shoulder, they do this all the time. Neck for me looks like it's going to be a really good success. I'm no pain right now. And I'm gaining function back. It's really it's a it's a humbling experience to go to the gym. Yeah. And be proud that you like can you know, we're usually dumbbells would be? It's this. It's my ego getting in the way. But normally, it would be like, Yeah, I did you know, 110 and each each arm dumbbell incline dumbbells now, I'm just like, sweet. I got 20.Eric Rieger  8:48  Yeah. In your left hand. And five in your right. Yeah, exactly.Ken Brown  8:51  Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, so shout out to him. So if anybody has any issues, please. In fact, you You did a revisit of the episode. I did. Yeah. So you did a Facebook post and Instagram pose,Eric Rieger  9:04  we tried something new. So if we have, we have a different studio now. And honestly, the audience has grown significantly over the last two and a half years. So some of the episodes that we had the old studio there, we didn't really have the network. We didn't have Paul helping us push out things more on the internet. We were more kind of internet radio based back then which we had a great audience there. But now we've kind of got a new or a lot of new viewers. So what we're going to try to do is do some revisits when we can or when this last week, we're both super busy and just couldn't film an episode. So check out the revisit number one, which actually features Dr. Wade McKenna. And we were prompted to do that really, because of what you've been doing.Ken Brown  9:46  Yeah, absolutely. And if you want to learn a little bit more about stem cells, there's number one look at that episode, because, wow, I did not realize that this has been Wade's background his entire career. And you can look at some TED Talks. With some German doctors because the rules are a little bit more lacks over there. So they've been, they've been researching stem cells a lot longer than we have. It's incredible. I think it's going to be how we're going to treat disease in the future for sure.Eric Rieger  10:12  100% so I've known Wade for almost two decades. And when when I was covering for him in the O r, it was nothing for him to have a research project going on having someone in the room simply taking samples from the patient that would be spun down and he did all kinds of I mean, he's one of the first doctors to utilize PRP. I mean, it goes back a really, really long timeKen Brown  10:33  ago. Yeah. For anybody that's wondering, anybody that's worried about anesthesia, I will now get my first hand take on it. I gave my first hand take on what it feels like to get a colonoscopy. I'm so angry at myself, but I believe my crna his name was Corey, Troy. TroyEric Rieger  10:49  now try is Troy's. Wade's PA, it's probably Cory. Cory it'sKen Brown  10:55  probably Cory. Anyways, great guy. Great crna knew you because you guys trained together at some point he trained he trained under you. He told me, he goes, here's what's gonna happen, we're gonna they they got the IV in, because we're gonna go ahead and lay down the gurney here. We're going to harvest the bone where you're going to go to sleep and then we're going to wake you up. You're going to hop over on this floor, oh table go facedown. Then we're going to go ahead, the doctors will come in, they will then float the catheter get in there. Jerry Lewis is going to assist Dr. McKenna. Once they get in the right position, though, inject it, then we will stop the anesthetic and roll your over your wake up and you're going to you're going to do great. I said, awesome. So all of a sudden, I remember being Chuck a little bit now. I'm like, Okay, so we're gonna do that. We just did the bone marrow. Awesome. And I tried to go, where's the flow table? They're like, you're all done. Like, you're all done. I looked up. I'm like, it's been two hours. Holy cow. And I was like, euphoric and felt great. And sort of, whoa, I gotta do this more often. You're not more stem cells anymore.Eric Rieger  12:04  Just Just relax. Just relaxingKen Brown  12:06  anesthesia. Yeah, exactly. Personally, what's going on with you?Eric Rieger  12:13  We are still remodeling the house. It's interesting to not be in our normal home and having to go back and watch them kind of do demo, etc. But gates just came home from college yesterday. So it's very, very exciting Mac core, still swinging at basketball, and they just finished a big tournament down in San Antonio. They want three or four to get to the championship. So he did great and Murray's social media companiesKen Brown  12:38  really taken off. That's awesome. As far as my household, Karla won her tournament last weekend, so shout out to Carlos super proud of you did great. The Lucas his last tournament, Costa Rica hurt his heel. And just to be just because I'm a worrywart. I ended up taking them to direct orthopedic care, which actually was kind of impressive. They got us in right away, and they x rayed him and did all this he were in a boot for a week. And now his foots better. Fortunately, nothing was broken. And then same thing with you remodeling. So loida spending a lot of time with my wife loida, looking at white paint. And she keeps asking me, which white should we use? For what room where it's going to go? Yes, what shade of white and honestly, it's all the same to me. I honestly think I'm white colorblind. I clearly see just white. Well, isn't that what it is? Well, not loida. She sees nuances kind of like, kind of like a dragon fly would see like an ultraviolet light or something. I think she sees the nuance of weird whites that I don't get. So I'm just nodding. And I'll just be like that one. And she's like, Are you kidding? That has hints of gray and Oh, honey, thatEric Rieger  13:53  one is the one.Ken Brown  13:55  That is not what I want. Right? That we're gonna Yeah. So no,Eric Rieger  14:00  I understand. I just, I agreed with Marie, that she should pick out all things aesthetic. And she said, Well, you don't want to help. And I said, why would I want to do that? I don't know what we're looking at. And so that's pretty muchKen Brown  14:15  part of the thing I've been doing for my neck is I've been going to North Dallas Spine Center, where I've been getting traction on my neck. And so I lay down in one of those traction machines where they hold my neck table. Yeah. And they have a TV above me and they keep it on HGTV. And it dawned on me that if you've got nothing going on, HGTV will give you a home renovation. So pretty sure that my daughter Carla and loida can have their own HGTV Home renovation show because that's what they do. Can like you talked about Marie, it's like this tile, that tile looked at this look at this, and it's just like, Oh, this is gonna accent this and it is dizzying. Oh,Eric Rieger  14:55  it's a specialty and it's a specialty that I have no special skill andKen Brown  14:58  no at all. None of All so well that's awesome. So you get it? Yeah. All right. Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about this. I am so pumped. Oh, yeah, that is not so pumped. An article recently came out. You know, like when you're always posting Jeff's have like a guy falling off a skateboard, like a bunch of times, like screwing up. And you're like, isn't this guy awesome? And then I'll post under that. No, Eric, he's not awesome. He really needs lessons in a helmet. And then you'll respond with like, lol. And I just look at that and go. Is he saying lol? Because he now gets that the guy's bad? Or is he saying lol? No, it just adds to a lot of confusion. Well, what does lol mean? Well, it's it's laugh out loud. And it just but you know how you always do that all the time. And I'm always doing thatEric Rieger  16:00  I know how I always walk into these scenarios that I learned about myself.Ken Brown  16:06  Anyways, fortunately, shout out to university Central Florida, because we don't got to worry about these confusing social media exchanges that you and I have. Yeah, frequently, all of the time, all of them. So a study was just published may 8, in the Journal of entropy, where University of Central Florida has developed thank goodness, okay, to save our podcast relationship, a newly developed artificial intelligence algorithm that can accurately detect sarcasm in comments written on social media. Yeah,Eric Rieger  16:44  I want to challenge it now. TheKen Brown  16:47  dough Miami man or Florida man, I should I shouldn't just key in on Miami right there. Alright, so computer science, researchers at the University of Central Florida have developed a sarcasm detector.Eric Rieger  16:59  How can that even work?Ken Brown  17:01  So social media has become a very dominant form of communication for not only people but as it turns out, businesses, companies are always trying to sell products and services. And somebody is always assigned to respond to the comments that people do properly understanding and responding to the call to the customer feedback on social media platforms is critical for success. airgo somebody needs to invent something to help those people understand that your customer is being sarcastic. NotEric Rieger  17:31  I don't, I don't know. I mean, I hope that they make a lot of money moving this app out. But who cares? But it's wellKen Brown  17:37  anyway, so I got really into it because of our exchanges on social media, as I've said multiple times. That's where something called sentiment analysis comes in. This University of Central Florida team developed a technique that accurately detects sarcasm, and social media texts. Effectively, the team taught the computer model to find patterns that often indicate sarcasm, and combine that with teaching the program to correctly pick out cue words in a sentence, that were more likely to indicate sarcasm, they taught the model to do this by feeding it large data sets, then checked its accuracy. And I believe that our exchanges were probably fundamental to their research.Eric Rieger  18:21  Yeah. Actually, after hearing that, I think I think this is actually really, really important.Ken Brown  18:28  So I think it's super important also, and I was so interested in this, that I actually contacted the scientists themselves and wanted to speak with them. And I contacted another sarcasm expert. Oh, yeah, yeah, to get another take on the whole field. And so so your wife, Marie commented that sarcasm isn't always easy to identify in conversation.Eric Rieger  18:49  That's weird that she would say that, because I'm never sarcastic atKen Brown  18:52  home. And then the scientists are quoted as so you can imagine. It's pretty challenging for a computer program to do it and do it well. So my own research on this has determined that sarcasm is a difficult thing. And doing it on letting your computer decided is hard.Eric Rieger  19:12  Yeah, again, I just want to reiterate how important I think this is yes,Ken Brown  19:17  sarcasm has been a major hurdle since sarcasm relies heavily on vocal tones, facial expression, and gestures that cannot be represented in text. It's important science super important.Eric Rieger  19:31  This this makes sense to me.Ken Brown  19:34  In a quote, detecting sarcasm in textual communication is not a trivial task. Dr. akula is quoted or maybe it was Marie, I don't remember which expert was quoting. Now she's often given many lectures on sarcasm, I'm sure thatEric Rieger  19:52  it could go either way.Ken Brown  19:53  That's why I went to her and asked her I wanted to interview her. So kudos to University of Central Florida,Eric Rieger  19:58  and we're getting ready to Get on to this awesome.Unknown Speaker  20:03  Very important science super important.Eric Rieger  20:06  Incredibly. That is the weirdest thing that we've ever done. IKen Brown  20:12  saw that article and I was like, Oh my gosh, real scientists are spending a lot of time trying to pick out sarcasm and I'm like, wow,Eric Rieger  20:21  yeah, it sucks that they don't get it.Ken Brown  20:27  Alright, enough of that that was but it's it's real. You can look it up. It's to me, it's to me. It's just hilarious. That's why we have emojis, you know, the little gestures that people do. Alright, so let's just jump into this episode, Episode 55. To more important, more important topics, health. So remember that last episode was all about how I was seeing more patients, post COVID young patients otherwise healthy as I would start discussing things with them, they would ask me very honestly have Is there any relation to COVID and having erectile dysfunction, because after I've had COVID, I've been having issues. So we started looking into that. And that's what that episode was actually about where we covered how there is this plausible reason for this and how certain studies are showing that they're aggregating some data where people post COVID the long haulers are actually having issues with erectile dysfunction. That was last episode. Check this out. This was just published two days ago.Eric Rieger  21:32  Oh, wow. So definitely new information since our last episode.Ken Brown  21:35  Definitely new information. And this is why I said instead of you know, go Florida man go Miami man because out of the University of Miami to Florida studies, one episode out of the University of Miami researchers report COVID-19 found in penile tissue could contribute to erectile dysfunction, really.Eric Rieger  21:53  So we're like, corpus callosum? What are we talking?Ken Brown  21:58  Great question. So basically, it's a very small case series, but it is pretty interesting. a urologist out of the University of Miami published this, that COVID 19, or SARS cub to let's say it that way, it can present in the penis tissue long after men recover from the virus. So the widespread blood vessel dysfunction, or endothelial dysfunction, which is what our last episode was all about, right? And that results from COVID-19 infection can contribute to erectile dysfunction. According to this study that was just published in the world Journal of men's health. What this urologist did is he was implanting penile implants, okay, in patients with refractory erectile dysfunction. He had a few patients that were post COVID. And they develop this afterwards. So his idea was that the SARS cov to virus can affect the endothelial and create inflammation, which then can result in erectile dysfunction. What's crazy about this is that we know that you the endothelial lining is the lining of blood vessels, and outlines origins as well. So it can be anywhere in the body. What is really crazy about this is that he took these people that had this prior history COVID and then he took a subset of people that did not but we're coming into the same issues, right? So severe diabetic or somebody that that is having reptile dysfunction, that is, it's devastating enough that you're going to go have surgery for it and have an implant on. So it said this isn't like a big deal. This is. I mean, it's one of those things that I guess, you know, a lot of pharmaceutical money's made on it. A lot of you know, snickering is done with it. But the reality is if you get an infection, and then this affects that it affects your relationships, it affects your mood and all this. What was fascinating is that he did biopsies of the corpus cavernosum cavernosum sorry, yeah, the of the corpus cavernosum. And this is nuts that he sent it off to a research facility where they did electron microscopy on it, and they found a bite virus sitting in the corpus cavernosum consistent with it being SARS cov two hanging out in the corpus cavernosum in patients that had recovered eight months before from COVID-19 and had antibodies,Eric Rieger  24:27  so it hadn't really gone anywhere. It was basically sitting there dormant that's causing long term infection and problemsKen Brown  24:32  we don't know that part it this is possibly possibly I should say that Yeah, possibly. And I guess you know, like one of my questions I got a lot of questions for that guy is are you sure that SARS cov two shirts on another virus? Are you sure it's not whatever is your co infection with all these other things, but that is crazy, because that means you clear the virus and you got SARS cov two hanging out in your penis. Well, it'sEric Rieger  24:56  let's go the other way. He just at least identified that It's possible that there was a virus that happened to look like SARS. But inevitably, it's inflammation that is causing the reptile dysfunction. He thinks he believes that's the connection. So it in essence, it doesn't just have to be SARS, cov. Two, it really could be, how are you going to protect yourself from long term inflammation? Right?Ken Brown  25:23  You're exactly right. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Okay, this is exactly what we're going to talk about today. Because on so many episodes we discussed, almost, it seems like somehow we get into the fact that inflammation, right chronic inflammation, acute inflammation, it's good chronic inflammation band can create all different kinds of problems. So today, we're going to talk about how to protect your penis naturally. Okay. And I have not heard this anywhere. And so to me, it's a very, very fascinating article about how we're going to do this naturally and using Mother Nature's secret weapon. So let's just recap really quickly the physiology of from the last episode of erectile dysfunction. So if you remember, your brain somehow becomes aroused in any one of the centers, it becomes aroused. And then it releases acetylcholine, where acetylcholine leads to the conversion of arginine to nitric oxide via something that we're going to talk about nitric oxide synthase. The nitric oxide causes vezo dilation of the blood vessels in the corpus cavernosum, which are the spongy tissue in the penis, which then allows for an erection. Ultimately, when you don't need the erection anymore, another enzyme called PD five breaks down the nitric oxide and you go back to your normal state, the etiology of of erectile dysfunction can be psychogenic neurogenic, hormonal, or vasculogenic. And so when you look at all that, keep in mind that almost all of those have an underlying common theme. And that is chronic inflammation,Eric Rieger  27:09  right? And all of those have to be working for it to work to work.Ken Brown  27:12  Exactly, exactly. So that's that's what we're gonna look at. So if you have any, if I suggest everybody go look at the last episode, because we went into significant detail about this. And and and we were theorizing almost that getting COVID can do this. And now we just have an article that just came out two days ago, actually showing on biopsy that it's that it, it's not only plausible, but it's probably likely Wow, man, it is really, really wild. I know it's not. So this got me really thinking. After seeing this article, I started thinking about the whole aspect of how do we, after the last podcast if this is going to be a more common theme for so many people or you know, have been infected? Then what can we do from a natural perspective. And today I want to talk about the role of dietary polyphenols in the management of erectile dysfunction. In fact, a very brilliant article was published in 2017, out of a research group out of Africa, where they specifically looked at that, and what they were really looking at is the mechanism of action. And these guys go into great detail about erectile dysfunction, noting how many things can cause it, but also that one of the main underlying themes was inflammation at its root. Okay, so when I get articles, so Angie, and I exchange articles all the time, and when I get articles, I'll briefly read through the abstract. And when somebody says that in the abstract, I'm like, this, this group is speaking our language, right? So what that's what we're going to talk about today is specifically the inflammatory process, and how it leads to this Xay, we're specifically looking at reactive oxygen species, meaning the underlying cause of inflammation is free radicals that can be caused by so many different things. So it doesn't matter if it's arterial, it doesn't matter if it's the hormonal bottom line is if you have inflammation in tissue, how does that cause it? And how can how can it be prevented? Am I making sense?Eric Rieger  29:28  Yeah, you're making sense essentially, what you're saying his long term inflammation has this byproduct called reacted or I'm sorry, reactive oxygenation species? Is there something that we can do to help clean up that mess so that we can have a better chance of achieving things where inflammation is getting in the way?Ken Brown  29:43  Absolutely. So when you think about this when you because we always hear about antioxidants? And and people talking about, oh, take this antioxidant, it's a superfood, it's whatever. Yeah, what does that really mean? Well, specifically, inflammation from reactive oxygen species leads to increased production of free wrap. radicals, which ultimately leads to lipid peroxidation, meaning breaking down fat that kicks off more inflammation, protein oxidation, meaning breaking down protein, which kicks off more inflammation, DNA oxidation, which means you actually break down your DNA. And so that's the epi genetic component of some of this stuff. And then decreased synthesis of nitric oxide, and upregulation, of pro inflammatory cytokines.Eric Rieger  30:32  And that actually is a double whammy. So if you are stopping and just correct me if I'm wrong, but if if you are stopping the production of nitric oxide, you're now decreasing blood flow. And by decreasing blood flow, you're actually allowing whatever happens to be in that area to linger longer. And if you are increasing cytokine release in that area. Now, not only are there pro inflammatory markers now in the area that we don't want them, it's going to take longer for them to be flushed out because there's just simply not enough blood flow.Ken Brown  31:05  Did you speak with the researchers?Eric Rieger  31:07  I didn't, because that'sKen Brown  31:09  spot on. Okay, well, with a little more detail, but it's almost like you had a phone call with them.Eric Rieger  31:16  After we talked about the sarcasm meter.Ken Brown  31:23  All right. So you're exactly right. But what's really cool is the actual mechanism and how these polyphenols can help in this process at different stages. So reactive oxygen species cause oxidative stress, because you had an imbalance between the pro oxidants and the antioxidants in a cellular system. So once you tip that damage to the DNA, proteins and lipids and proteins, like I just talked about results in a massive increase in inflammatory cytokines, right? Yes, like you were saying. So in theory, anti oxidants could help protect the endothelium the lining of the corporate cap of the corpus cavernosum by shifting that inflammatory cascade someplace else, the most potent natural anti oxidants are in the form of poly phenol. So this study really reviews the dietary polyphenols and the role they play in the management of erectile dysfunction. From an inflammation perspective.Eric Rieger  32:33  It's it's fascinating. And then when our most of our viewers know that if you're addressing inflammation with polyphenols, you're not just addressing it for Ed, you're actually going to be addressing it systemically. This is what your body needs to balance everything out.Ken Brown  32:47  I'm blown away that the more that we do this podcast, the more that I keep uncovering research that has existed, this is 2017 never even heard about this and like holy cow. And it was so good. It's like when we had Charlene on with the celiac stuff correct? Holy cow. Really quick, can you just explain in case somebody is turning tuning in for the first time what a poly phenol isEric Rieger  33:07  poly phenol, so the easiest way to find them are knowing that they are the compounds that you find naturally in fruits and vegetables, which are responsible for the colorful fruit, or I'm sorry, the colorful visualization visualizations that you see in you know, green broccoli, or red apples, etc. But what they do when you consume them is they are really what your gut bacteria want for food. They've got specific functions by the time that they get there they arrived, your bacteria know exactly what to do with them. And then they can turn into beneficial products after they're consumed so that you can protect yourself from inflammation, you can give yourself a better chance of anti aging, the bio products of poly phenol, metabolism, I guess you could call it and your colon really pay long term dividends. It's the reason why we've always been coached to drink I'm sorry to drink to eat fruits and vegetables daily. And they're they're the workhorse inside fruit vegetables.Ken Brown  34:09  Exactly. So what you're going to see in the future, I'll say in the future of research, followed by the future of the market, is that there's a shift going from the probiotics that we're now learning are probably not as quite beneficial as initially touted, and there's lots of marketing behind it. And most research or a lot of researchers are moving away from probiotics to studying these poly phenolic molecules. And you summed it up perfectly, and that's awesome. It's like when I hear you, I'm just like, man, he's so smart. Why would he comment such a silly thing about that skateboarder?Eric Rieger  34:47  I don't know. I don't know why did that on that social media exchange that we never had.Ken Brown  34:53  Alright, so what these researchers looked at initially, they said, well, we're gonna we're gonna pull a bunch of studies and And what they looked at was something that that is very interesting to me as well is that they realize that all the studies really involved large, stable polyphenols like pro anthocyaninsUnknown Speaker  35:13  interesting. I think we know a little bit about prime we know a little bit about that,Ken Brown  35:17  as Eric mentioned, pro anthocyanins are the polyphenols, which are found in the fruits and vegetables with the most vibrant colors, the blueberries, berries and things like that. So that's what they were looking at with these studies, not so much that they were trying to select those. It's that what other people had published. So this study that I'm talking about is like a mini meta analysis. And what a meta analysis is, is when a research group will take data that exists small studies, they'll congregate it, and then they'll do a review and say, This is what the data shows when you put all the data together. Okay. So if you have a couple case series, then you put those together, and that's what so this is like a mini meta analysis, looking at several studies, not several, like many studies. For instance, prior studies have shown that poly females exert their action directly on the endothelial lining of blood vessels. One of the studies cited sums your whole message up where it goes all over the body. This is really true. One of the studies cited found that they radio labeled poly phenol metabolites. Okay, so and then just to break it down, that's what the that's the compound that would exist after the bacteria has taken up all the phenol and broken it down to what it knows is beneficial, right, exactly. So by radio labeling the large poly phenol once it gets broken down, then they can see wherever it goes. And the reason why I say that is because To their surprise, nothing was excreted in the urine. But they did find these polyphenol metabolites in the brain, heart, kidney, spleen, pancreas, prostate, uterus, ovary, Mary glands, testes, bladder, bone, skin, and highly concentrated in all endothelial linings.Eric Rieger  37:09  So essentially, every organ in all of our blood vessels are highly dependent upon these metabolites.Ken Brown  37:14  Yeah, and none are essentially none were being excreted through the urine. So as we sit there and talk about this, and we've talked about this, this is when these polyphenols, you take a large, stable poly phenol, right, like abbraccio proanthocyanidin. And if you have a diverse microbial base, your microbiome will break this down into beneficial metabolites that find their way everywhere.Eric Rieger  37:38  Why if it weren't important, and if your body didn't want it, it would be doing all it could with the reason why you brought up urine is it would be doing all that it could to eliminate them, but it's not doing that.Ken Brown  37:50  Well. It's not doing that because if it was, so I guess you could think about this, if it were absorbed correctly, you'd pee it out, right? Because all urine is is filtered blood, right? And if it's not absorbed at all, then what you would see is that radio label tracing in the totalEric Rieger  38:09  Yeah, and still Yeah, yeah.Ken Brown  38:11  So it's, it's pretty wild. So these authors want to know, well, okay, knowing that it's going to go everywhere. How would this correlate in erectile dysfunction? And more importantly, what are the mechanisms and how it actually does? Okay? So, knowing that these polyphenols can work directly on the endothelial lining, and that inflammation can cause erectile dysfunction. What studies exist to explain how these polyphenols can help directly with erectile dysfunction, so I admire these guys, it's a really thick articles. It was I had to read it like 700 times or something like that.Eric Rieger  38:51  I think the sarcasm meter has alarmed us that 700 is probably inaccurate. HoldKen Brown  38:57  on, let me check the computer. Oh, you're right. The AI says that I was being sarcastic. That's awesome stretch. All right. So first, they referenced many different studies showing how polyphenols have been found to have a direct anti oxidant effect. So when people think about polyphenols, they always refer to it as being potent antioxidants, preventing this oxidative stress. But a more important role that they have determined is that there may be very beneficial indirect effects. And we've talked about these indirect effects on multiple episodes. Absolutely. And so one of these that they went into tremendous detail is a pathway called the n f Kappa beta. Nf Kappa beta. We talked about this on the immune episode. We talked about it when we had the when we had david on broccoli on Yeah, the sulfur fans we've this NF Kappa beta is the is the first domino that gets turned on. So it's almost like a puri trophic phenomenon where it sets off This huge cascade. So if you want to know more about that, and about the cascade, go to our episode on the immune system, because that is where I just drew it all outward shows how complex it is. But basically, to sum it up, it causes this release of inflammatory cytokines just blood turns it all on, polyphenols control his process by controlling the NF Kappa beta. Okay, so it doesn't let NF Kappa beta come in and just say let's throw a party, it's as well hold on, just calm down. It's what down regulates that pathway. In addition, and this is something I did not know, poly phenol is regulated regulate local enzymes that are pro inflammatory, like something called ionos, which is inducible nitric oxide synthase. And I just shout out to Angie, because she said if you're going to do an episode follow up, she sent me a full article. She's like, I've always been confused about this, because sometimes people refer to nitric oxide as being part of the inflammatory cascade. And I'm like, but it's always there. And she's like, this is a great article that summarizes it. As it turns out, there's eyeness, Enos, and US and US is neuro nitric oxide synthase. Wow. Okay. In US is endothelial nitric oxide synthase. I nos is inducible. Okay, so inducible is very important when you have an acute inflammatory response.Eric Rieger  41:33  Yeah, it's, it's being induced to respondKen Brown  41:35  to being induced to respond, okay. But when you turn on certain chronic inflammatory issues, I nos, actually is an enzyme that converts nitric oxide into an inflammatory type molecule are really super cool. So anyways, polyphenols, block, the enzymes like that. And cyclo oxygenase two, or Cox two, right? Do you've ever seen any commercials, we just have commercial all the time about Cox two inhibitors, right. And so it blocks these two enzymes, which, to me is super, super fascinating, because I did not know that it did this on a local level as well. While it's doing this, it's increasing anti inflammation pathways like the and our F two pathway, which we've shown that that is the exact opposite. If you want to think about good guy, bad guy, yeah. And RF to, you know, the old cowboy movies wearing the white hat, the NF Kappa beta is the bad guy wearing the black hat. So you know who's good and who's bad. That's the old timey movies, I remember. That's how that I bring that that's really dating myself, but I'm bringing that up, because that's how I was taught during pathology, about how to read. You're looking at slides. If it's cancer, it basically has all this chromatin staining on top and I remember, my mentor, Dr. Brady would say, look, remember this, when you see a slide and if it's really dark on top, that's a black hat. That's a bad guy. Okay? And if it's darker in the middle, it's it's okay. You have a polyp. It's not cancer yet, but once it does that, so it's just always think about that. So basically, NF Kappa beta, bad NRF, two good pathways that do. One does a whole pathway a bad one does a whole pathway of good polyphenols decreased the bad pathway, and they increase the good pathway, nice and increases inflammatory cytokines or anti inflammatory cytokines like aisle 10. Okay, so that's part of what they get into, which is, which is really, really cool. And then instead of they go into tremendous detail about how this information or the rat of oxygen species creating this inflammatory process, actually, once the NF Kappa beta is turned on, it creates a pop ptosis in the endothelial lining. It's a big word. YouEric Rieger  43:57  know what that is? It's when cells automatically die, or they are, it's like programmed cell death. They are to they're told that they're, they need to terminate,Ken Brown  44:05  yeah. So when the NF Kappa beta gets turned on, it goes around, it tells healthy endothelial cells to kill themselves. Yeah, so to speak, which results in cell dying, which then leads to denudation, or sloughing of healthy blood vessel cells, which now needs to be replaced and repaired, which needs to be replaced and repaired, which sometimes that inflammatory process then leads to either scarring or plaque buildup or things like that. Yeah. So if you don't block the inflammatory cascade, it's just a vicious cycle. So this is going to lead to inflammation and fascinating what these guys showed in multiple studies is when you have this a pop, ptosis and denudation. The other thing that you're getting rid of His endothelial nitric oxide synthase,Eric Rieger  45:04  which is going was going to form nitric oxide, right?Ken Brown  45:08  Yeah. So its job is to form the good nitric oxide, which helps dilate blood vessels, you actually decrease the amount that's even available.Eric Rieger  45:17  Now, it's unfortunate, that's not what you want in this particular instance.Ken Brown  45:20  That's not what you want in this instance at all. And that is not sarcasm. That it No, that is true. That is the truth. Yeah. So anyways, that's enough. So basically, you have you decrease the nos or decrease the amount of nitric oxide that you have. If you stop and think about this, and you know that it goes all over your body. We need blood vessel dilation to keep our blood pressure down to increase the blood flow to our brain. You we have strokes because you blocked the blood flow, we have heart attacks, because you blocked the blood flow, you can have erectile dysfunction because the blood flow is decreased. Correct. So it's all making sense now. So without nitric oxide, you have increased adhesion. So now you have a lining of a blood vessel, which has lost its endothelial and smooth pathway. Yeah. And then now you've got these like ridges, yeah, so as platelets, and leukocytes is your white blood cells and your platelets come swimming through, they're like getting hit and they get, they get hung on, and they get stuck. And this actually causes a release of something called thromboxane. A to because they're like, oh man, we get we need to get out of here, we're stuck. thromboxane a two is a vasoconstrictor. Because if you think of plumbing, you have a big pipe like this, if you're getting decreased flow, if you constrict the pipe, you'll have higher pressure. And so the body's going oh my gosh, I got platelets that are stuck there. Let's release the strongbox saying, Yeah, that's exactly it. I read this, I was like, Oh, shit, yeah, all this stuff is going on with COVID. And people are having strokes, heart attacks, clotting. Now it makes total sense 100%, the inflammatory process is using up your nitric oxide synthase, so that you don't have as much nitric oxide, and then your body's producing a clotting mechanism to overcome that. Yeah. Nobody has discussed this that I've seen. I haven't seen Fauci or anybody talked about that I keep hitting my mic. Get all excited.Eric Rieger  47:29  Now, I've not seen anyone talk about it from that approach whatsoever. Granted some of this information, some is new as it pertains to COVID and the pandemic, but that the actual process of this though, is not new. There. What they're doing is they're applying some relatively recent knowledge and saying, guys is the same process. We have to get out in front of this.Ken Brown  47:50  Yeah, absolutely. And I just saw, we've talked about this, but I just saw that the guys that we work with it. And I'll try until they just filed for their they're finalizing their study where they're actually using polyphenols in hospitalized COVID-19 people. So it's public now nice. we've kind of been hiding it. I've been known. I've known about it for over a year now where that's is what they've been trying to do. But they they have their data done. And so now it's public knowledge that they have petitioned to be able to publish this. The data is out publicly yet, but they've at least shown that this is what they're doing. Right. And now it's making sense. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. So to recap, this oxidative stress leads to inflammation, which leads to decrease nitric oxide, and eventually vasoconstriction and clotting. So let's pause for a moment because I feel like I'm just throwing a ton of stuff out there. Well, there'sEric Rieger  48:49  a lot of stuff. But ultimately, the takeaway through all of this is make certain that you get rest, and that you have polyphenols on board, because that's what your body needs. Really breaking down is why, why do we need this? Why does it workKen Brown  49:03  exactly asEric Rieger  49:04  you referenced earlier, and it's to bring our attention back? We've been told that we needed probiotics 25 years ago, but they didn't really know why that is, knew that we wanted, or not. Even more importantly, how, yeah, how does it work? We knew that we needed bacteria in the colon, but we didn't really know of taking probiotics was going to really give us the diversity in the colon that we needed to give us the byproducts of the metabolites that our body was wanting. And what we're seeing here with polyphenols is that we know not only why we need them, how they work, and where specifically with erectile dysfunction, we can see that it could actually correct some some damage.Ken Brown  49:52  Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, well said. Alright, so we're gonna keep moving on because that's not it. It's done. Actually just stop there. Oh, no, there's more. There's more. Do you remember when we had that patient? Who was he is a cancer researcher, okay. And he was talking about how the research he's been doing was looking at blocking arginase enzyme to help as a cancer treatment vaguely. So, essentially, there's and then I had another patient who's a cancer. He's an MD, PhD, and I asked him, I was like, Hey, I had a patient that said, he was Oh, yeah, we've known about that. So he's MD, PhD. So in the research world, they've known about this for a long time. Okay. Basically blocking the enzyme that breaks ArgentineUnknown Speaker  50:42  down, okay.Ken Brown  50:44  helps your body heal itself.Unknown Speaker  50:47  Wow.Ken Brown  50:48  Okay. And I thought that was fascinating, because they're basically, they're basically developing a drug that which is more of like a dietary supplement to treat cancer. Fascinating.Eric Rieger  50:59  Yeah, it isKen Brown  50:59  super cool. So lots of research is going on in the cancer world regarding arginase inhibitors, and then doesn't take long for the pharmaceutical industry to realize there's money and other things. Sure. So there's lots of research going on in the world of erectile dysfunction, trying to use arginase inhibitors for erectile dysfunction. Big money, definitely big, big money. So as it turns out, there are studies out there that have shown that Polly females actually have a strong arginase and Ace to inhibition as well.Eric Rieger  51:37  And I think this is important, though, to point out because there's a big distinction, at least in our experience of the motivations behind pharmaceuticals, again, is to just find something to block that one enzyme arginase. polyphenols are really the far more natural way for your body to have the things at its arsenal and its disposal to use when needed, which is a much different approach, give your body the tools if I if if I needed a lug nut taken off of my of the wheel, so you change the tire, that'd be great to have that lug nut, you know, wrench. But then later on as a screw comes loose in the car, or I need to any I need to get my spark plugs or something else like that, I would much rather have the toolbox that had the lug nut wrench, the gap for the spark plug and the screwdriver. Versus well now I've got to try to fix my spark plugs with this wrench, and it's not gonna workKen Brown  52:36  100%. So think about this, if you develop a drug that is purely an arginase inhibitor. Yeah, but you don't have any nitric oxide synthase. To convert the arginase to nitric oxide, there's,Eric Rieger  52:47  there's no there's no balance in what you're what you're doing. There's no balance at all in that give your body the fuel to make use from the tool chest as it needs.Ken Brown  52:58  Absolutely. There have been studies that have shown this, they cite several different studies. But one in particular that I just want to bring up is a polyphenol called Moringa. I'm only bringing this up because we will be discussing Moringa on a future episode. Because it ties in I'm just I love doing this podcast because I learned a lot. I love it when anybody else listens to it, and they comment on it. We do get a lot of emails, and I'm loving that. But the reality is that it's fascinating how many things just come together? Yeah, when you're like, Oh my gosh, nobody's put this to this. Nobody's put this to this. So when I say that we're gonna talk about Marina in the future. Like in the very near future, I got some really cool stuff that I've come across. But there's, we can't, there's only so much we can discuss and on one episode at a time. So when we're looking at all this, and we said in the very beginning of this episode, that inflammation is the root cause. Well, you have to bring up will then address some of that, like, Are there any studies that show when somebody has chronic disease?Eric Rieger  54:08  for erectile dysfunction, there's tons of that, like diabetesKen Brown  54:12  for Oh, for instance. There was a study where it looked at how a poly phenol from a lactic acid, improved erections and diabetic rats. And they were able to demonstrate in these diabetic rats, they induced diabetes in them that this was done through an inhibition of the reactive oxygen species directly and locally in the corpus cavernosum. So diabetes is one disease, okay. There was another study that ingesting pomegranate polyphenols improved penile vasodilation in rats, that they caused severe arterial genic erectile dysfunction, so vascular disease, and this One, after administration of polyphenols they documented increased intra cavernosa blood flow. So increased blood flow to the penis, compared to the untreated rats with the same vascular disease, in other words, coronary artery disease. And the key point in this study was that the decrease in reactive oxygen species allowed an increase in nitric oxide to stick around long enough to override the lack of blood flow. I'll say it again. Wow, the that whole process that I just talked about, where you have inflammation, reactive oxygen species leading to the inflammation, causing the NF Kappa beta to turn on, which leads to vasoconstriction. As it turns out, by giving the poly phenol it allows the nitric oxide to stick around long enough and go like Braveheart hold. I was able to hold open the vessels and be like, we're gonna get an erection one way or the other. Just paint my face blue. Let's go. Let's do it. Yeah, no,Eric Rieger  56:01  I get it. Hey, I find that interesting, though, too, because it's once again, it's the antithesis is how we got to the problem in the first place. You mentioned COPD, or coronary artery disease, which also include probably similar diseases like peripheral vascular disease, having a problem but what inevitably do they think leads to those, those deposits or those blockages NCD And usually, it's long term inflammation processes, and it can be kicked off by anything can be kicked off by long term sleep apnea, etc. But you end up being deficient in molecules that your body wants to basically control that inflammation. It happens every single time. It's theKen Brown  56:45  tipping point, right? When you don't have enough antioxid antioxidants and the pro oxidants turn enough on the NF Kappa beta. Oh, you're on the wrong way.Eric Rieger  56:56  And then that's a long explanation in and of itself. I'm just highlighting that. That that is ca D is just another instance where what we needed to control systemic or even local inflammation is deficient in the molecules needed to prevent that accumulation that blockage.Ken Brown  57:13  Do you remember and stepbrothers when they, after they, when they met up at the Catalina wine mixer and he goes, are you still? Are you still? Whatever he said karate chop and watermelons. Whatever he said, he goes, No. And he was but I am taking a daily aspirin. He's like, that's the smart thing to do thing. Yeah. Somewhere in there was the whole enterprise rent a car, they teach you to be your own boss. But anyways, so the whole idea of taking an aspirin a day? Is it because it blocks the the cyclooxygenase pathway? Or is it the antiplatelet pathway? Or oh my gosh, really? aspirin is an anti inflammatories? Yeah,Eric Rieger  57:55  that's exactly what it is. And it does. It's an anti inflammatory because it was blocking CoxUnknown Speaker  58:00  Right. Yeah.Eric Rieger  58:01  So what is polyphenols doKen Brown  58:03  co x by the way? Yeah,Eric Rieger  58:05  yes. It's we're on that subject are we highlight the early in the show? Have you heard him say that's nuts twice? I heard that. So.Ken Brown  58:18  Yeah, so let's think about that. Like, like, my, everything was just going off in me. I was just like, wait a minute. That's why what we showed that taking an aspirin antiplatelet activity of Plavix. Why do we put people on Plavix to be antiplatelet without treating the underlying inflammatory process?Eric Rieger  58:37  Yeah, I mean, I think our society just become really accustomed to turning to the drug, which really is only targeting one small thing instead of giving your body the opportunity to correct the more universal problem. Because let's face it, if you're on a antiplatelet therapy like Plavix, of course, it can be saving your life if you had a standard etc. I'm not saying don't take Plavix. However, you do have side effects that come from that that you you can bruise easier. you bleed out you have a scrape. I mean, it's just it's fun.Ken Brown  59:10  Alright, so we know that you have to if you have a cardiac event, cardiologist goes in get a lot of Cardiology friends and they place a stent open up your artery increases the blood flow problem is the stent has little ridges on it. Yep. And that's where platelets can it he's exact same thing is happening when you do a nude. Oh, yeah,Eric Rieger  59:29  vessel. That's right.Ken Brown  59:30  Yeah. You create little ridges, that platelets will stay 100%. Yeah. And then that's all from inflammation. That's all from inflammation. And then finally, in another study using a poly phenol combo from grapes, apples and saffron, they demonstrated that an indirect mechanism in this case, by activating the sirtuin one pathway, we haven't mentioned that yet, but we've talked about it before the sirtuin one pathway which resulted in decreased apoptosis of the endothelium and resistance towards oxidative stress. If the cert diet rings a bell with anybody, that's because a Delta the cert diet lost a bunch of weight and everybody kept talking about the cert diet. It's a poly phenol that yeah, it turns on the serotonins, which basically function to block this stuff that we're talking about a pop ptosis denudation, reactive oxygen species, definitely. So super. Alright, so the bottom line is polyphenols are badass in the natural prevention of erectile dysfunction. And it was shown to do this by multiple mechanisms. Let's just go over the mechanisms super fast. Number one direct anti oxidant effect, right? So it is the antioxidant to protect the pro oxidants that are going on reactive oxygen species. It increases nitric oxide by decreasing the enzyme inducible nitric oxide. So that's the bad one. And it was actually shown to increase nitric oxide synthase because that goes down with inflammation. Correct? Number three, inhibiting arginase. SoEric Rieger  1:01:14  we didn't talk about this earlier, I think we're gonna get sidetracked. But why is arginine important for nitric oxide production. So if we break down arginine before it has an opportunity to be used by by nitric oxide synthase, then obviously it's just done a fuel or components to makeKen Brown  1:01:32  nitric oxide correct 100%. So in the prior episode, we talked about it in detail where acetylcholine turns on this ability for arginine to get moved through an enzymatic pathway using nitric oxide synthase. that converts Argentine into nitric oxide, right. So that's why it's so important. So if you don't have enough Argentine, then even if you're doing well, and your body wants to have an erection, it needs this substrate. Yeah. And if your body is breaking it down all the time, because arginase goes up during inflammation, then you don't even have the substrate to do it withEric Rieger  1:02:08  just not enough fuel.Ken Brown  1:02:10  There's not enough fuel, that's that's the best way to put it. Number four, it blocks pro inflammatory pathways like NF Kappa beta. And that, that just leads to blackhat. That's the black hat that just leads to decrease in TNF alpha and interleukin six and all these other inflammatory cytokines. Then it also turns on anti inflammatory pathways through the NRF two pathway, which is the white hat, which turns on the shuts down NF Kappa beta and turns on a whole host of other anti inflammatory processes. And then finally, number we're on six it activates the cert one pathway leading to less a pop ptosis. And it also helps with protecting the reactive oxygen species a pop ptosis creating the bumpy lining the denudation. So Mother Nature secret weapon new and improved for erectile dysfunction. We talked about it for other things, but we didn't really discuss it. Regarding this.Eric Rieger  1:03:11  I mean, at this point at this point. If you've been on the fence on Should I take polyphenols but you're not on the fence if if you like to have sex? And the answer is yes. If the answer's no, then I mean keep keep skipping. But if you want to protect an intimate love life, then polyphenols are critically important when they just aren't and they always have been it's this isn't new.Ken Brown  1:03:37  Well, this isn't new, and we just discussed the study out of Miami. We're now we're gonna start we're gonna see a lot more people younger people showing up saying I have erectile dysfunction. What's going on?Eric Rieger  1:03:47  Yeah, it's gonna be more devastating. The younger that you Oh, one is it's not normal.Ken Brown  1:03:53  That's not normal. The 100% and it's just one of those things. Nobody. Well, not well, no, I'll say nobody wants to talk about it. Yeah, nobody talks about it until Mike Ditka went on a Viagra commercial. It was like wolf ditches talk about it, then. I guess we can talk about it a little bit more. Oh, yeah. Remember that?Eric Rieger  1:04:08  Yeah. And then it thank thanks to them honestly, because it broke the barrier to where they became commonplace. I don't remember anybody talking aboutKen Brown  1:04:16  it publicly. No. And then if you're sitting there just going okay, you're done with these polyphenols. Which one that I talked about? You talked about grape. You talked about pomegranate, you talked about Moringa. The bottom line is the larger the more stable poly phenol you have. It will be broken down into the metabolites, the post biotics and we talked about on a prior episode with Silvia her research was she's PhD from Spain. Shout out to her for English being distant second language I think she speaks four languages also. But English being her last to learn and she came on the show and discuss it. Her research show that when you take a large table polyphenol like abbraccio and chestnut, your colonic bacteria, she fermented it, she digested it and fermented it, meaning that it was the metabolites, you kick off all these different smaller phenolic compounds that people try to study like allergic acid, like root and like reservatrol, like curcumin. It's incredible. You give your body what it wants you and we always talk about, you know, get it in your diet first. So eat a very colorful plate, you're going to get that. But to get the same amount of polyphenols, proanthocyanidins in five bowls of berries, it's equivalent to two doses of autoruns. Hill, it's correct. So from poly poly phenol content to poly phenol content of proanthocyanidin. That's, that's where it comes in. Yeah, and that's why I'm so passionate about it andEric Rieger  1:05:49  poly finos we made a reference or I made reference earlier to having having a toolbox. So certain polyphenols individually, they're great, they're great for you. But that may just be a small tool bag. And a larger molecule poly phenol like a pro anthocyanin is really like the entire tool chest. Regardless, you're giving your body all of the tools that it needs or several of the tools that it needs in order to make the right metabolites that you're in need of.Ken Brown  1:06:15  Yeah, so awesome. Do you want to recap this real quick? Because it's thatEric Rieger  1:06:22  man do I want to do it right now?Ken Brown  1:06:27  So I got one last question. Which which white? Do you like better?Unknown Speaker  1:06:37  hereKen Brown  1:06:37  Why would you choose that? works at all? Yeah, Episode 55. In the books we covered both sarcasm and directionsEric Rieger  1:06:46  we did we covered sarcastic directions. Thank y'all so much for joining us and we look forward to Episode 56 and that's actually a mystery we're gonna find out what that topic Yeah, thatKen Brown  1:06:58  one's gonna be a bit of a mystery. So as always, everything that we're talking about on this show, I am a physician Eric is a crna we do treat people on a regular basis but we are not your doctor and unless you are my patient and you're listening to this. So please do not take this as medical advice. This is a show it is for entertainment. And we are also trying to educate so in that light, we would love it if you would share this if you would subscribe. And if you would, you know like it post a comment whatever, so that we can run it through our AI software to find out if you're being sarcastic.Eric Rieger  1:07:31  Definitely do that we want to run it through our AI software. I thank y'all so much please like and share. Honestly this type of topic kind of gets shadow banned on certain platforms. So if you're ever going to share an episode, please share this one and episode number 55. And of course check out our first ever revisit with Dr. Wade McKinnon because this guy here went and visited him for some stem cell treatment.  Thanks everybody. Bye bye.

Don’t you just hate it when you’re walking in the yard of an old farmhouse and there is a ghost staring out the window? How about that strange noise some folks claim they have heard coming from the barn? And do you sometimes get the feeling that someone is looking over your shoulder only to turn and find no one there? Those are stories that Kenneth Brown, an archaeologist from the University of Houston, heard as he went digging at Magnolia Plantation near Natchitoches, Louisiana. Brown did not spot any ghosts himself, but he did learn much about the lives and traditions of those who occupied those grounds – including post-war freed slaves. Brown, who was a guest expert on the Destination America show “Ghost Brothers" which hosted it's first episode at the plantation, joins Errol Laborde, executive editor of Louisiana Life, along with podcast producer Kelly Massicot, to tell stories about what archaeologists are learning from plantation life. Oh yes, we will also hear about what he found in the ground for his exhibit at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of African American History and Culture.

00:00 The best looking Cabinet secretary is 61! 04:00 Grievance, rebellion and burnt bridges: Tracing Josh Hawley's path to the insurrection, https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/05/11/senator-josh-hawley/ 06:00 The Age of Pelagius, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=139261 11:00 Jesse Watters: The true origin of COVID, https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/jesse-watters-the-true-origin-of-covid 19:00 Are breathing techniques good for your health?, https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/12/are-breathing-techniques-good-for-your-health 21:00 Improve oxygen uptake in the blood - Patrick McKeown, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hga_6I7u0_A 22:00 My commentary on breathing techniques, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=139252 25:40 BMJ study on the Alexander Technique, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXmimtk381U 37:30 The Alexander Technique: First Lesson, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgplXmILzoQ 48:00 Rob Henderson watches The Shield, https://twitter.com/robkhenderson/status/1391521499513823233 49:00 All hail The Shield - the scuzzy forgotten classic of TV's golden age, https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/apr/30/all-hail-the-shield-the-scuzzy-forgotten-classic-of-tvs-golden-age 52:30 Saagar Enjeti: New Details REVEAL Fauci, Media Coverup Of Lab Leak Hypothesis, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pk0wLN5uuU 59:45 Richard Spencer on Conservative Anti-Capitalism, https://youtu.be/USe_yL64uPw?t=825 1:02:00 Affordable Family Formation, https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2008/11/06/affordable_fami/ 1:09:00 Rand Paul vs Anthony Fauci 1:11:40 Rick Wiles Says ‘The American People Are Being Oppressed by Jewish Tyrants', https://vimeo.com/546506402 1:22:20 The Pelagian Controversy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-NBgDQ1_Q 1:25:50 Jim Goad: Does whiteness exist? https://www.bitchute.com/video/GjifQib48j3l/ 1:27:30 Tribalism for everyone or for no one 1:30:00 Abysspilled Norman Finkelstein destroys your hopes and dreams 1:32:00 Kenneth Brown on nationalism, https://youtu.be/MY-3ekOEOs8 2:09:40 How and Why Did Judaism Survive? An Answer to Mark Twain, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9364pNlpQLg 2:37:00 Origins of Covid-19 2:42:00 Drag queen says keep kids away from drag shows 2:47:40 FAUCI ADMITS FUNDING PLA BIOWARFARE RESEARCH LAB IN WUHAN, https://www.bitchute.com/video/7SoIJ5qJ83q0/ 3:00:20 Violence erupts between Israelis and Palestinians 3:03:15 E. Michael Jones says Israel wants to rebuild the Temple, https://www.bitchute.com/video/2FoXyBabNVO5/ 3:05:30 JF Gariepy on Palestinians vs Israel, https://odysee.com/@JFGTonight:0/jfgt196:4 3:10:45 Tucker Carlson on Joe Biden's economy How Much Do American Jews Care About Israel?, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=139235 3:18:10 Michael Moore Presents: Planet of the Humans, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE&t=2949s 3:19:00 Sheldon Solomon on culturally constructed belief systems 3:21:30 Barricade Gage says there's no gas shortage Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

00:00 Dooovid joins to discuss Israel 41:10 Kenneth Brown on nationalism, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7bFDmBNBkw 46:00 Unsettled: What Climate Science Tells Us, What It Doesn't, and Why It Matters, https://www.wsj.com/articles/unsettled-review-theconsensus-on-climate-11619383653 50:40 Identity Politics Wins Big in the UK Elections, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq1KbhM_SPg 53:30 Rush Limbaugh - How Talk Radio Works, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELRmgJw8muw 57:30 Colin Liddell: Is Nick Fuentes Lying About His Flying Ban, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVbppPCTQgk 1:02:00 Talk: A Novel by Michael A. Smerconish, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=139199 1:09:00 Smerconish takes on Rush Limbaugh's legacy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxF_SN2-zyc 1:15:00 Australian media personality Mike Carlton writes in his 2018 autobiography about his six decade career, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=139194 1:18:00 Australian radio host and comic Richard Stubbs, https://radiogamechangers.com/richard-stubbs/ 1:32:20 Richard Spencer on American downward social mobility 1:42:00 Matt Forney talks to Joseph Cotto on the future of the internet, https://rumble.com/vgl80x-matt-forney-on-vaccine-passports-chauvins-conviction-more.html 1:44:40 IS MELINDA DIVORCING BILL GATES OVER JEFFREY EPSTEIN?, https://www.bitchute.com/video/aByeE08e7jGQ/ 1:49:20 Hillary Clinton fears the Philippines might become a 'subject of China', https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYbIc12rZNM 1:51:10 Matt Christman on USA v China, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izhK03bEk8k 2:02:40 Ten Global Trends Every Smart Person Should Know, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIANLddo-ec 2:09:30 Rational optimism (Matt Ridley, Steven Pinker, Bjorn Lomborg, etc) 2:11:30 Why Hitler Lost WWII (In a Nutshell), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjgW5AWOJ2U 2:15:00 Hobby vs business 2:20:00 How A White Supremacist Infiltrated The Military, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhn2MUWy9JQ 2:26:20 Sargon of Akkad reminds you that Youtube is not a job 2:39:00 ON INFOWARS' & REBEL MEDIA'S CLAIMS ABOUT CHINA BEING BEHIND ANTIWHITE PROGRAMS IN THE U.S., https://www.bitchute.com/video/uzGZwGDQPwvc/ 2:44:10 Tucker Carlson on Nicholas Wade's essay on the origins of Covid-19 Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

Hello Gut check project fans and KB MD Health family I hope you're having a great day This is your host Eric Rieger soon to be joined on my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth Brown. If the audio sounds kind of funny on this intro, I'm just having to record it while doing a little traveling and regardless, it will not take away today's episode will not disappoint. This is about erectile dysfunction. What can be done about it? Who wants to deal with it doesn't matter if it's male or female. You don't want to have to be dealing with erectile dysfunction it you know the inappropriate time. So let's not waste any more of your time and get straight to the podcast. But first, our awesome sponsors artron to get your daily poly finos and ultra and to go to love my tummy.com slash KB MD. Love My tummy.com get your poly phenol calls today and of course unrefined bakery incredible food, go to unrefined bakery.com if you are a keto eater, a paleo eater, a gluten free eater or you just like great food that happens to be healthy for you. Go to unrefined bakery.com felt like you had to avoid good tasting cookies simply because you have celiac disease. Well, don't worry, they are certified gluten free and all of their products and get 20% off your entire first order with code. gut check that's unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% off your entire first order. And last but not least, go to KB Md health.com. If you'd like to check out the podcast and all of our products that we offer, then you can do so just head to KB Md health.com. You can find the home of the podcast all of our previous recordings from gut check project and you know get to know Dr. Brown and myself a little better and shoot us a message. All right. On to episode number 54 the reptile dysfunction Hello gut check project fans and KB MD health family. How are you doing today? I hope it's great. I am here for Episode 54 with my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth brown and today's topic. I think it's actually pretty popular even though when people have it. They don't like it. I was gonna say it's not popular. It's common. Oh yeah. Popular. Yes. No one really? Yeah. No. Today we're talking about erectile dysfunction Ed, and I'm doing this as gastroenterologist because we're seeing that the pandemic may have a strong effect on this but probably not in the way that you're thinking. So today's episode is going to really look at the rise in erectile dysfunction in younger men that are otherwise healthy. That's what we're going to talk about the rise in erectile dysfunction pun intended. Yes, apparently that is funny wording for you. But nice. So erectile dysfunction Episode 54. I don't you told me there's going to be surprised. Yeah. Yeah. So lately what I've been doing when I get Latin when I latch on to a topic, I pretty much don't tell Eric what we're gonna do. So just kind of see him. And so I thought today would be really funny to see how many times he giggles at the word reptile. So if we count it, it could it could turn into a drinking game. I'm not sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, fortunately, all natural, sparkling wine. So that's what we're gonna talk about today, reptile dysfunction. So before we jump into that, I have an ask of anybody who's listening to this. Okay. All right. So this is my ask for the public. I have an amazing team at my office and one of my amazing team members. It gave her two week notice and she's leaving for reasons like all people do, she's getting better opportunities. And I'm proud of her to do this. She helps her deal who is my scheduler work with my patients, and she helps these patients and it's been working really great. So what I'm asking is if anybody listening happens to be super cool, nice, loyal and wants to work with a great team. Or if you know anybody who happens to be super cool, loyal and wants work with a great team. I would like to find somebody to fill this role. There is no medical experience necessary. I'm just looking to hire the personality. So we're just trying to find these cool loyal people go to KB Md health.com kB Md health.com and just hit the Contact Us button. If you know of anybody. Sign up your friends family, we just I really am very proud of my team. I'm very proud of the way that my team takes care of my patients and I'm really going to fill this pretty tough void so I'm reaching out to everybody. Yeah, and if you're watching this show, from far away from Plano does not include commute travel expenses or per diems. So you're probably going to want to be in the area of the clip probably want to be local. Yeah. On your way. And if you're thinking of moving the plane over for Go anyways, I would go ahead and do that. And so, all right, let's do the usual Eric, what's going on with your life? We're about to renovate our house we moved into about a year ago. And actually today after we finish filming, I've got to go to a builders meeting. And so this is a this is a first a true renovation of a home that we that we live in and feeling that anxious but gonna be displaced for a little bit so I'm not super excited about it, but at the same time, we'll be okay. Yeah, I mean, I would just to ease your anxiety if you learn more about homebuilding Oh, then you'll feel more comfortable. So I'm gonna recommend a movie called the money pit with Tom Hanks. That is not the movie. Showing long and Tom, you'll learn a lot about that. Yeah, I'd say never heard of this movie. Doesn't he say home crap home. As far as me, I've got Lucas in Costa Rica. Today's international tournament right now is in the quarters currently playing. Lucas, let's give it to him. And Carla will be playing out of town this weekend for a large tournament as well. So we got the usual thing going on. And I'm getting my stem cells next week. You are you're getting stem cells. In fact, he even came down with a little bit of extra pain yesterday in your neck. I did. Yeah. So it's interesting. I'm really excited to see what this will do. I hurt my neck. surgery was recommended. I've been really trying to avoid surgery. Dr. Wade McKenna was a guest on our show early on. And he's really one of the world's leading stem cells. Definitely. I just happen to be fortunate enough that he's in the DFW Metroplex. So, him and Dr. Jerry Lewis are going to work their magic and I'm going to get a stem cell injection plus a stem cell infusion. And what you and I were talking and yeah, so everyone. So as I do scopes, everyone saw you a little pain, I'll be like, it's I'm still gonna do it. We were talking, you came across some literature, which we will do a whole show on after I do this. All right, about how polyphenols can augment the stem cell stuff, right? Yeah. So there's a handful of them and kind of on a whim, just knowing that we're research based and wait is certainly research based. And we've talked many times with him about how can we complement each other? Because that way, it's very altruistic. And if you have, if you don't know that, just listen to the episode. And you can learn a lot about what he's given up just to give his patients the best service. But knowing that I was really curious on what do polyphenols do, they could augment what it is that Wade McKenna does at his office. And I mean, it's a simple Google search turned up a lot of articles about, well, I don't want to get into it and give it all away. But yeah, it's it's there. Well, it's interesting, because you and I both do intermittent fasting. And we know that intermittent fasting causes a tapa G and fasting long enough turns on stem cells, and we know the polyphenols are fasting the medic molecule, correct. So that at least we know that way. But we're gonna do a whole show on that. And we might even be able to get one of these cool scientists come in and talk about it, you know, like we did with Charlene and Sylvia, which I still get a lot of feedback from patients about that. No kidding, is deep, but I was I'm really proud of our audience that we have. Because y'all, you stick to it, and you really dig in deep to the to the material. And I mean, how many times do we in the show going, man, I hope that wasn't too thick. And the next thing you know, we get email and patients coming in saying that they love the episode had no idea that such and such worked. And sometimes I'm like, did we say that? No. Is that what they told us? Yeah, we're getting emails from really all over the world, which is really cool that we got people listening in all different kinds of places. Sure. Um, last episode, we talked about what month is this what day it is, and as it turns out, April right now is stress Awareness Month. Oh, nice stress Awareness Month. And interestingly, we just got our paper published, we just got our study published in the clinical case reports and reviews at the beginning of COVID. To try and help the frontline workers manage it. The title is gastrointestinal symptom and stress recall survey in frontline health care, healthcare workers after consumption of combined quebracho conquer tree embell Salma a wild extract, what that is, is that's the generic term for atrantil. So this will talk about this study on a different date, but I'm very happy that it got published because it was really good results. And as we're gonna get into further into this episode, and then further into the next episode, right, we're gonna get into how maybe polyphenols are really affecting your stress level and different things. Yeah. So and I know what you're gonna do before you interrupt me, I know what you're gonna do. You're like, hey, it's not just stress Awareness Month in April, I realized that April is actually national Awareness Month of a whole bunch of things, like a whole bunch of things like Autism Awareness Month, which is very important, very important. And then and I'm not kidding here. It is. National safe. Digging month is that we have to call test dig before you hit a line. I have no idea but I know you dug deep on that. I mean, I can just imagine this, you know, I mean, like, for God's sakes, Bill, you're just such a reckless digger. It's April, this is the one month where you got to not do that. It's April. This is not reckless digging. It's safe digging bill. So I just imagine conversations like that happening. I, I'm not kidding, I think you dial 311 and you find out if they can send someone out to your property and tell you if there's a line or a pipe or something like that before you dig. They must get inundated in April. Well, I must have to hire like they couldn't have done it. late February because we were iced over. That's true. So now now's when people I remember being snowed over and you are like, don't you just wish this was all thought? Dig? I thought for sure you'd at least wonder who bill is and why such a reckless digger. You know? Well, I thought everybody knows who bill is. I know Bill's my pet badger. So Bill, and I've been at odds for a long time about his digging habits at my house. So I'm just hoping that Well, hopefully Bill's calling 311 I don't know. I'm not. I don't know, Bill. I got him because he was supposed to be the sweet badger. It's called a honey badger. But he's not sweet at all. Oh, not even Nice. Yeah, no, he's not they never are. Did you have skunks are a badger is a form of badger. I didn't know that. Yeah, well, not honey badger. They do not smell like honey whatsoever. So Bill causes a lot of stress in my life digging everywhere without calling 311. Before doing this a national safe digging month. Why do we even care about stress? Stress affects so many things? Oh, wow. Yeah, super important. Because stress can actually those headaches, you're having the insomnia that's going on this severe fatigue that you're having, you're going to these doctors seeing stuff when actually it could be stress. So it's important to pay attention. And I got to add another layer of stress here. Okay, hate to do this. This is already a very, very stressful time in the pandemic, everything's going on. There is new evidence coming out that COVID is now causing chronic erectile dysfunction in younger men who were completely otherwise healthy. That's terrible. I know. It's like it's not a bad enough virus already. But so do do the link this back to stress. And where we're going, we're gonna get into this. So actually, this has actually come up in my clinic several times. So you know, we did the episode about hemorrhoids last time, I do treat a lot of hemorrhoids. And once you're doing that with somebody, I think that they feel comfortable enough bringing up other potentially difficult topics like erectile dysfunction. So I've been seeing a trend of younger men asking me questions about erectile dysfunction. And after the first one mentioned that this kind of all started after they had COVID. I started asking, and most of these people have had COVID. Interesting. Yeah. So this is why we're doing this episode, I went down a proverbial badger hole. And we're gonna try and solve this just trying to sort kind of our categories here are these same men? I guess you mentioned hemorrhoids. Are these same people also afflicted with hemorrhoids? If I do hemorrhoids, what's going on there? Well, it's this is an interesting topic also, because that's something else that I want to look into in the future, there is some correlation with large hemorrhoids leading to what's called venous Steele syndrome is a whole separate topic. It just happens to be that the people I treat are also the same ones that are coming to me for hemorrhoids, right? So if all you have is a hammer that everything's a nail, Cheryl, I'm trying to think outside the box and go, Why in the world would this do this? And so I started researching it. And lo and behold, a new report was just published, which confirmed my suspicion. So a study was just recently published out of Italy, showing that COVID-19 increases the risk of developing chronic erectile dysfunction, nearly six fold. I must say that again, if you get COVID, and you're a young male, you may have thought that it was perfectly smooth and easy. And you got through it. You have a six fold increase in developing erectile dysfunction. It's terrible. And then they backtracked with the data a little bit. And then they realize that those that were already diagnosed with erectile dysfunction had a five fold increase of contracting the virus. That works now both ways. The second part makes a little bit of sense, and we'll get into that, but this study was led by Dr. Giannini, who is a professor of endocrinology and medical sexology at the University of Rome. It was published in andrology. I just liked the idea of being double board certified and sexology and endocrinology. Yeah, I didn't know that was an option. I didn't know it was either. I'm gonna go get double board. That's it. I mean, it doesn't sound like it wouldn't be entertaining. This was just published just last month. In this paper, they explained that ultimately, the underlying issue and erectile dysfunction is endothelial dysfunction attorneys gonna keep coming up over and over. Okay? Now this is a super complex process. And I'm going to go into this in in detail in just a few minutes. But basically in their study design, they did an online survey early on in the pandemic. So they discovered this very early. We don't know what these numbers are now that we're a year into the pandemic. And they compare to erectile dysfunction. People that fill out the survey versus non erectile dysfunction groups EDI for short, and accounted for other variabilities like psychological stress locked down financial stress, they took those out, they're looking strictly at COVID at COVID on this one. So they were able to get 100 adults, and they use what's called a logistic regression model, which is why you hire statisticians to do these kind of papers for you. Yes. And they came up with those numbers, that after getting COVID, the likelihood of developing EDI was six fold higher than those that were not infected. Wow, I crazy, right? And their conclusion is that erectile dysfunction is all about the endo phillium. And those are the layers that line the blood vessels right now it's starting to go, that makes sense. Because we know that COVID creates a lot of different problems. And so that's when I went, Oh, my gosh, this makes sense. So, in there, Dr. Giannini must have a sense of humor, because in the paper, they actually said you should, it gives a whole new meaning to wearing the mask mask up to keep it up is what the doctor said. So I guess, somebody that's double board and endocrinology and sexology can make jokes like that and still get published. Yeah, respected journals. I tried that there's no way to be accepted. And so what he's saying is wearing the mask could potentially prevent you from getting COVID and also protect your prevent you from getting sexual dysfunction. And they're plausible mechanism by which COVID-19 may impact directly on the endothelial cells, leading to a reptile dysfunction. So in the paper, they go on to describe we're now seeing all these COVID long holders, right seeing patients that show up with neurologic complications, cardiac complications, pulmonary complications, we also know that people were having cardiac events, and they're having strokes. It all comes down to the inflammation in the endothelial lining the endothelial lines, all these origins, but more importantly, it lines the blood vessels supplying the organs. So the concern specifically is that the virus is directly damaging these endothelial cells. And this is how some people feel the virus causes long term damage, not just to those origins, but if you're otherwise healthy, it could hurt it could cause long term damage to your penis. I don't want that. No, this is I mean, this is kind of shocking stuff to think about it, but it makes sense because we're gonna get into the physiology of the penis. Here. Oh, by the way, I'm just got my master's in psychology. I'm not a doctorate yet. Not double board certified, but I just got my master's. I don't know when you had the time an hour ago, when I was preparing for this podcast. That does not sound like an accredited school. I is one of those online things. And that's one of the really reputable hard to get into, like University of Phoenix. I mean, it was, you know, Danna college, online school. So interesting. Yeah, we'll see what it we'll see what you learned. What I thought was interesting that somebody for 400 bucks, they gave me the title and then I Danna is where I went to undergrad. They close, they are not around anymore. So then another study. So then I started going down, and I looked at this and I was like, Okay, we got one study that looked at the actual a pool of people that had this. And then another study recently conducted, what they did is they made the correlation between COVID and erectile dysfunction. And their conclusion was that they assumed that the increase in cardiovascular and pulmonary complications is what is driving the erectile dysfunction. I mean, it makes sense it, I guess, I guess what I'm what I think you're leaning to or that this information is leading us towards is that COVID basically kicks off this systemic inflammation problem. And that being the case. inflammation, once again, is the root of long term and chronic disease. And knowing that erectile dysfunction happens to be one of the manifestations of and so that's what I want to get out here. You're exactly right, local or systemic inflammation, because all inflammation starts local and when it leads to a cytokine release on whatever episode that was that we did the innate immune system. Do you have any idea of why we believe that the end endothelial cells with a blood vessel cells are so ravaged by SARS cov, two or COVID, probably because of angiotensin converting enzyme receptors, Estill receptors. That's exactly it. So in this particular study and another one in the Journal of endocrinology investigation, what they said was that we had to be very careful because we know that SARS cov, two binds to the h2 receptor to get into the cell is access. That's its access. So the final conclusion of all these articles is that we now know that COVID can have both a direct and indirect effect on your penis. It's terrible. nobody's talking about that now, and this could just be the beginning. Like we don't really know like this. The data they published six fold increase was a very small number of people because it was early on in the pandemic, right? I mean, kudos to Dr. Giannini, who was thinking about erectile dysfunction when we didn't even know that SARS cov. Two was, yeah, I mean, I'm amazed continually who hopped on board early to know that these were things to be testing for so early in the game. Yeah. So the so the study that we just got published, we were working on this way back in April. I know we're working on a Yeah, working on in April, launching in May. Yeah. Working on an April launching in May, finalizing June, July, August. And then you go through all these revisions and so that, I mean, he really, he really worked hard to get this out. So more stress for stress Awareness Month. So I'm gonna, I'm throwing a lot at you. Let's just recap. Because right now, this is stuff that nobody's talking about. Yeah, no, right. I mean, I don't know where to begin with the recap. But I do believe that what we need to talk about is how can you prepare your body to successfully harness and Okay, let's just say that someone gets COVID. Yeah, I don't want them to worry perpetually, that they won't ever be able to imagine a life without EDI. And in sorry, for the moment, I'm gonna give you all play by play. Ken is on the ground. He's looking for a cable. Yes. And he just found it. And he wants, he wants me to keep talking. But what he's doing is quite dangerous. He's touching things, he's unplugging things. And I can guarantee you he did not call 311 before he started to dig down there, and then that mess of wires. Alright, however, he's back, I think you're muted. So that was really bad. So what I was saying is, is I think that regardless of what causes or triggers a cascade of inflammation, even if it happens to be COVID-19, you want to be certain that your body is prepared to not allow inflammation to run out of control. Absolutely. and protect your endothelial lining everywhere, right? And long term inflammation will be destroying that your healthy cells will be competing with out of control inflammation to 100%. So we're gonna eventually talk about how to protect yourself. Okay, but not on this episode. This is part one, part two, we're gonna be getting some cool science. Yeah, I just learned that. I know. Okay, but you're but you're on the right track your your level two Polly phonologists. So we're gonna be talking about that. But to actually understand this, I don't think many people really know what erectile dysfunction is. I mean, it gets talked about all the time. There's commercials and all this stuff. Yeah. Well, okay, where do you Where do you want to go? Let's start. Let's start with the definition. Okay. By definition, erectile dysfunction is defined in the medical literature as the inability to achieve or maintain an erection sufficient for satisfactory sexual performance. Yeah, that sounds awful. Yeah. very vague from medical definition also. Yeah, because that's how medical things are written. I just imagine this, this process with your with your partner and cheer he or she goes, you know, really should go see somebody about that. And then your responses, why we just had sex for two hours. And then shear your partner goes, That's not enough. I need at least three hours and by the medical definition, I'm not fully satisfied, therefore you have erectile dysfunction. You got Ed. I don't think that we're a good match. The definition was sufficient for satisfactory sexual performance. What is your satisfactory 100% not everything written in the medical journal is tested for for common communication I had and I'm not making So when I did residency, I worked in the geriatric clinic so you do internal medicine, you get assigned to clinic. I love doing the geriatric clinic, as I spent most of the time taking drugs away. 85 year old male 83 year old female, super smart. They came to the clinic. Because her complaint was, Oh, yes. Her complaint was that something is wrong, because they're only intimate three times a week. And for the past 60 years, good. There was awesome. I'm like, Oh, my. And so I went and when when you're in residency, you have to present it to the attendings. And every attending was like a maintenance couple. No kidding. Yeah. So they're apparently at 85, three times a week was considered EDI, in this case, because they had a different expectation, then everyone. Come on, man. Post stemcell. We don't even go to Padre anymore. I'm freaking 90. It's like, you know, 14 days always going to bed at two three in the morning. He won't even stay up and dance. Is this. I'm gonna I'm sorry, ma'am. Why are you here? He's like, Bill just doesn't want to rave anymore. It's because bills and bills shows up a lot. Bill. So anyways, I just think it's funny because whatever your definition of EDI, it's kind of like what your definition is. But I think most people can agree that the inability to achieve interaction or lose interaction is a big deal, right. And prior to COVID, it was projected that 322 million men worldwide will have significant erectile dysfunction by 2025. My prediction is that post COVID this may be a much, much bigger deal. We may be seeing a ton more. That worldwide, worldwide. Okay. That's a lot. It's still quite a bit, but just south of 8 billion people. 322 million seeking care. Oh, seeking care. Wow. That's good point. Yeah. Wow. That's awful. Yeah. A lot of people. That's a lot of unhappy couples, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Alright, so you're ready to talk some sexology it's good. All right, we're gonna talk about the process of an erection. Okay, so it sounds to me like we're gonna be talking about blood flow and what stimulates that and how those things work. This is kind of a PG episode. Yeah, because we got it because it's just off the topic, but we're gonna be science is the topic. Alright. Remember that? The process of an erection is very complex. Actually. I forgot how complex this was. It's multifactorial. You need to have a balance of psychological hormonal, neurological, vascular and anatomic factors. any alteration anywhere can actually affect the whole process. Yes, no penis, no erection. This is true. No. Unless you're like, mentally on a different level. No blood. No. I mean, we're picking up what you're putting down what's going on down here. I have a penile gland erection. I've achieved enlightenment. I can make my pineal gland. your pineal gland is in your brain. I'm sorry. I'm assuming Everybody knows that. Yeah, maybe you do gland is also pronounced but yeah, that's that's honestly, I just nodded. I didn't know what the hell you're talking. I was trying to make a pun. Yeah. It's called the third eye. But it's up here. Yeah. So anyways, a lots going on. This is super complex. Alright, I'm going to go Bill Nye science guy on you. Okay. And so I built a prop before you got here. This will be interesting. I hope that if you're not, if you're one of the 1000s that are online, you just go back to this part of the show and look at whatever the heck is planed. Everyone what's going on here and we will walk through a reaction. I thought we would do. Yeah, it looks like that's what we're gonna do. But can you describe what I just put on the table there It looks to me like to dish sponges with a two retractable those little squishy key ring holders holding the two sponges together. And on one end, you have a long hot dog balloon filled with water. And I can only imagine that what we're going to do here is show what happens when blood flow arrives in a typical man's penis. You are exactly right. So what we're gonna do here is Oh, yes. So let's walk through the process. Okay. So first step, your brain, which is probably on this end, somewhere way on the other end of that way over here, okay? So your brain find something arousing They could be anything for anybody, okay? And that arousing that arousal without knowing it, a signal is sent through your nerves, okay? To a nerve in the endothelial cells of your penis, and we're going to talk specifically about that. And what it does is it releases a chemical that we're all that we talked about all the time. acetylcholine, acetylcholine Yeah. And then what acetylcholine does is it actually hops onto the endothelial cells, the lining of the sponge hops there. And the acetylcholine actually creates this calcium mediated conversion of Argentine to nitric oxide. And people talk about nitric oxide all the time about vezo dilation. We've talked about it before on different episodes for sports using polyphenols for sports, right? So they see the Coleen calcium mediated channel opens up arginine gets converted to nitric oxide, and then nitric oxide is the key to this whole process. Okay. So nitric oxide, what it does is, it goes through this very interesting process of turning on something called the cgmp, the cyclic guanosine monophosphate, which opens up potassium and calcium channels. And what that does, is that stimulates increased blood flow represented by the balloon, notice that my hand is trapping the blood flow there. So right now the nitric oxide stimulated by acetylcholine turned on by the brain has opened up blood flow to these spongy areas here, known as the corpus cavernosum. The corpus cavernosum is filled with blood vessels and so blood rushes in. And then these swell up and it actually traps the blood, right? And this is the actual process of having an erection. So you need the mental component. You need the proper amino acids you need the proper health and the nitric oxide. Why is the nitric oxide so important? Because in the next episode, we're gonna talk about what COVID does to this whole process, okay, and as it turns out, affecting the endothelial cells is the key. Because when the endothelial cells don't do this process, you cannot achieve this, okay? So, when you are done being aroused, the cgmp is then broken down by an enzyme called phospho. diaster, Ace, five, PD five. And then the blood is slowly allowed to leave the cleaners, and you go back to its natural state. And so that fossil diaster race is important also, because once you achieve arousal, and once you're no longer aroused, the penis goes back to its normal state. That's the thing that created that made Pfizer into a multi multi billion dollar business, some scientist was trying to work on a high blood pressure medicine, to increase nitric oxide to vezo dilate the blood so that you drop your blood pressure. And if you remember the history of that one, they were doing a clinical study and none of the men returned their unused samples unused. And then that's when, you know, some poor scientists is like my life's work is ruined, I'll never fix high blood pressure, nobody ate something much better here again. And that is what is now known as Viagra, it actually blocks that enzyme that allows this to be released. And so this is all happening on the endothelial cells. And so once that enzyme gets blocked, then you can actually maintain an erection longer and all the other things and all the other TV commercials regarding those whole class of medicines. Now, there are phosphodiesterase five inhibitors, one little enzyme is what MIT turned it into a billion dollar industry. And so this is all happening right there to endothelial cells. So if there's any inflammation or damage to those cells, this whole process can't be achieved. Yeah. No matter how much you want to will it right, like there's more going on than that. So would you like to recap the process? Wow, that is a lot. And you don't really have to say the sciency words I just want to see you squeezing the balloon I can see. So essentially arousal, if endothelial cells are now stimulated, so that they can be dilated and that occurs because arginine is then converted into nitric oxide, which then of course has cgmp. And suddenly now we have a place for this high pressure blood flow to go. And I see I'm having problems. Probably more the reason why you want to be so anxiety can also I'm very nervous isn't working. But anyway, so now we have an erection because what we have here is the positive. Well all four all four measures were met. And our endothelial cells are allowed to becoming gorged, and then suddenly now phospho diaster race arrives, because we're finished, and blood flow returns back to normal, and you're good to go. 100%. So let's look at a couple health issues that tend to have more reptile dysfunction. So diabetes, definitely Oh man, poor vasculature, poor vasculature. You can have neuropathy, you don't have the nerves traveling secreting the acetylcholine, you have some vasculopathy. So your arteries look like the tail end of this in the middle. So there's things that can happen with that. hypertension is another one chronic hypertension. Definitely. So chronic hypertension, it can lead to issues with erectile dysfunction. Both of those have increased h2 receptors in the endothelial cells. Yeah. So you got better access for that COVID if you happen to be infected, so now you've got it's kind of like, multiplying the damage. Yes, exactly. And which also makes sense why people with prior reptile dysfunction had a five fold increase in developing significant COVID. Kind of makes sense. Yeah, it does. It's just more Ace to receptors present. Yeah. So you know, it's a very crude model, Bill Nye science guy kind of thing here. Oh, I think you really hit it on the park. I imagine walking around the studio trying to find things that I can like, you know, what I really want to do I want to do, I want to find something that that signifies the corpus cavernosum. It's a spongy, like smooth muscle sponge. Yes. Yeah, like that. I don't remember anybody talking about the key ring holder. But I mean, regardless, it works. Trust me. I thought of a lot of different ways how to make sure that the sponge is bad, though. I mean, that's kind of how tissues functions. Yeah. Yeah. So you have this. This is a smooth muscle. So anything that affects smooth muscle can actually affect this. Yeah. So that's how come we always talk about increasing sports performance, increasing nitric oxide, having the proper diet, all these things play into a role. So having the proper diet, maintaining healthy lifestyle, exercising increases? Oh, here's a great example. I was thinking about this. I was like, why is exercise so important? Well, exercise increases BDNF in your brain, oh, decreased neuro inflammation, allowing for more sensitivity allowing for more acetylcholine to go through. We know from Angie's Angie being on a guest. On the episode, she discussed how TNF an inflammatory marker decreases acetylcholine. So the more chronic inflammation you have, the higher likelihood you will not have the proper amount acetylcholine. So there's something else there, then we get into the vascular aspect of this, with regular exercise in good sleep, you have increased or improved vascular tone. So it all kind of plays into this is something that we didn't talk about in the breakdown on on the stimuli for where acetylcholine is coming from. And just a brief thing, but if I remember correctly, I think that the parasympathetic nervous system is actually the catalyst right for the release of acetylcholine. And if you can't rest, and you don't have good vagal tone, then you then just like you said earlier, you won't have the correct neurotransmitters to make this happen. That comes with great rest, which helps lower your anxiety. How can you get great rest you exercise is a cyclical thing. You're You know what? I'm so glad you brought that up, because this is something we learned in med school. And I forgot to because it wasn't discussed in any of these articles, and I kind of stopped at that. But you're exactly right. To achieve an orgasm. I need the parasympathetic system to get that acetylcholine to start on sorry, to achieve an erection to achieve an orgasm, you need your sympathetic. Yeah. And so that sympathetic drops all these things maintaining this, which is why you go back to your normal state post or in your phospho das races now present. Yes, yeah. phosphodiesterase is released, you break down cgmp blood flow is allowed to leave. And that's a really cool, fascinating thing, which is that people who have great vagal tone generally are exercising and don't have chronic anxiety. They usually have great rest, they typically eat well. Good. When we have patients who show up in the clinic or at the procedure, the procedure suite, they'll have a low heart rate. They generally have good physique and are healthy. They're either runner, cyclers lifters, crossfitters, whatever happens to be but today they're active, they vigorous lots, lots and lots and lots of diggers. But But I guess I'm just saying it augments in order to prepare for something like, like COVID you really just want to be in shape. You just want to take care of yourself. You want to give yourself that health span. We've we Sitting on services. Yeah and this this can be done through a lot of different ways. Just getting up and getting some. Oh my gosh. So while I was waiting for you to come over I get done with clinic a little early turned on. Brian Reagan has special at Red Rocks. Oh nice. I didn't know there was one. Oh, it's he's just I just you know he's just good. We're both big fans of stand up comedy huge big fan of stand up comedy. It's called Reagan on the rocks. And I'm I'm didn't look it up. But it the way you describe it. I think it's red rocks in Colorado. Oh, it's gotta be it was outdoor. Yeah, yeah. And it's like this amphitheater type style, outdoor rocks. And he was like, he was Yeah, I'm at that age. I'm going to doctors all the time. My doctor said, Brian, you need to quit being so sedentary. As he goes, right? Then I promised myself I need to get a dictionary. And never got around to it. I just lay around the house all day. So but I thought that was funny because he's never I just get out and do something, just get moving a little bit. you increase the blood flow, increase your body's responsiveness, your vagal tone. And then other issues that you may have problems with. The interesting thing is how many people how many men will avoid other health issues? Until erectile dysfunction comes up? Yeah. Which is, which I think is you ask a lot of people yeah, that that'll be the thing. They'll drive into a doctor? Yeah, I think guys are just generally just I don't know what it is. But guys are just generally that way about health care in, in total. Agreed? Yeah. So this is part one, because I didn't want to go on for way too long. This is still I think we're, we're having a decent time here. We're a little bit shorter than we normally do. But that's probably Yeah. But that's probably a good thing, because maybe we try and pack too much in all the time. So part two is going to be what can you do to make sure that you protect your penis, okay? How polyphenols on a molecular level work to take care of it, prevent it. And it all comes down to everything you're talking about inflammation and how it does it the amount that you need to take, how do you increase your nitric oxide all of the above. And spoiler, it is going to be all about inflammation. And I'm just I'm looking at the products that that are near and dear to my heart. I tried to polyphenol blend CBD didn't find anything directly related to nitric oxide. But there's a lot of evidence that CBD decreasing anxiety definitely allows a greater vagal tone and acetylcholine release. And of course, brockagh lead with sulforaphane in it decreasing NF Kappa beta, which we'll get into, which is all about inflammation. So that awesome episode, great introduction to what people struggle with and shouldn't be ashamed to go and seek help now. And I think that we'll be able to explain how to protect yourself from this, which ultimately is protecting your overall health, which ultimately protects you from COVID. And if you've been a maybe a little bit Cavalier towards COVID. Yeah, this is one of those things that kind of gets you thinking twice a little bit. Yeah, definitely no awesome episode. Yeah. Hey, this is I mean, I don't know if you want to try this at all, but it is a little bit soothing to move the water back and forth. Do you remember those those, those little things that used to have the inverted water below the water? Snake? Water? Snake? Yeah, you try to hang on to it and go all over the place? Yeah, that's similar to that. It is similar to that. But so anyways, I've submitted a patent as a teaching tool once I get my psychology degree. So I was told to tell you, you're not going to get that. That is going to be Episode 54. Be certain to turn in our are we going to do the follow up on 55? We're going to develop on 55. Yes. So 55 is going to be all about the science and what you can do to protect your penis, protect your health. And we're going to continue with, you know, battling COVID by prevention, not just when this happens, you know, it's this thing that we talked about what we've done, I don't remember how long that was vitamin D and all the usual stuff. I don't know either. But it's all it's funny how this is just becoming this multi circle Venn diagram and everything's landing right in the middle. And that middle is inflammation all the time. Definitely. Oh, almost forgot, this show is not meant for medical advice. So if you have any issues with erectile dysfunction, or any other health concern, please consult the doctors that you know, and this is technically just a show that we just talked about things that happen to be in health. It is it's just a show. But the other thing is that the whole point of the show is to also try and help one person so if somebody is having an issue, and they agree checked out because of this because they found the weird sponge thing, entertaining or not entertaining, then we've done our job. Absolutely. So Episode 54. No joke. Not one from you about car 54 I'm shocked with all of your your lame dad jokes. I honestly expected you to show up with like a cop hat and a spinning red light or something like that. I took my because my employer was put it two weeks and I took the staff out. Yeah, we are at a restaurant. And of course I'm throwing out and the waitress, same age as all my employees. they impart that my employees apologize, so he's gonna throw these out all night. She's like, Oh, don't worry, I'm totally down with that jokes. I'm like my boys have it doesn't matter how funny I think a meme is. I send it to them and they but they just type back seven years ago. It's all I get back. It's all you buy for both Mac engaged. So tune in next week for more dad jokes, I guess tons of dad jokes. Alright, that's gonna be Episode 54. Thank you so much for liking shared, certainly if you have a concern, rewatch and then tune in for Episode 55 or get some follow up on what can be done to naturally protect yourself from hopefully, yeah, and and and in all seriousness, if you have a friend or anybody that has discussed this with you or something like that, make sure that they listen to this because it could be an early sign of something else. Definitely that could that could save their life. Thank you all very much. We'll see you next time. Bye bye.

Hello Gut Check project fans and KBMD Health family. I hope you're having a great day. It's your host Eric Rieger soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's time for Episode Number 53 and this is a really informative episode about what causes Hemorrhoids and believe it or not, would you maybe listening to this podcast on could be making your hemorrhoids worse? That's right The phone anyhow, how is this possible? We'll just check out Episode 53 it's it's very light but really informative and without wasting any more time let's get to our sponsors. And as always, I'll try until formulated by my partner Dr. Ken otter ideal chock full of polyphenols go to love my tummy calm doesn't matter if you're an athlete trying to protect your gut health. If you just want to protect your body from systemic inflammation, trying to daily go to love my tummy calm that's love my tummy, calm slash, KB MD get your polyphenols today, and of course unrefined bakery, great food, regardless of your specialty diet. If you need to be paleo or keto or certainly gluten free, head to unrefined bakery.com use code, gut check and save 20% off your first order. This is just great food, great groceries delivered to your door unrefined bakery.com use code gut check and save 20% off your first order. And last but not least, go to KB Md health.com. And you can peruse the three signature products that Dr. Brown endorses his own CBD as well as Brocelite chock full of severe things and of course auto deal. So go to KB Md health.com. Use code GCP and save 20% off of any order anytime. Alright, let's get to it. Episode Number 53 what is causing my hemorrhoids every day?Hello Gut Check project fans and KBMD health family How are you doing? I'm Eric Rieger flanked here by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. It's Episode 53 What's up, man? That'sawesome. It's Episode 53. And you rarely refer to me as awesome. That's why I'm gonna use it three times in the same sentence. That's an awesome sentence. Usually it's I'm I'm here with my adequate co host, Dr. Ken Brown.Yeah, I've never said that. And y'all will never use awesome again. That's probably not even true. So what's what's shakin here for Episode 53.And this is exciting because Episode 53 it's gonna be all about hemorrhoids, hemorrhoids, hemorrhoids and Roy Roy. Yeah, this all came about because I was treating a patient in their mid 20s. And that person asked if it was unusual for me to be treating a person that was they felt that this was an older person's disease. And I said no, actually, I treat a lot of people in their 20s. And I started thinking about it. And I went, you know, I do treat a lot. And that person said, Why is that? And what I have not paused to think about and he goes you should do a show on it. Yeah, and I went absolutely. And as suggested we're doing a show on hemorrhoids. So I am declaring today officially national hemorrhoid Awareness Day. That's veryambitious. I actually you're not you're not gonna believe me, but I actually believe that there is a hemorrhoid day. And there's actually a hemorrhoid month the hemorrhoid days October 19. And hemorrhoid month is November and I don't want to take it away from you. Maybe this could be hemorrhoid30 minutes. Yes, yes. We all know this. Everyone knows that October 19. Everyone knows and it's also national clean your virtual desktop days national Kentucky day. National seafood bisque day 10 National LGBT Center Awareness Day. hemorrhoids gets buried under all that so I'm pulling hemorrhoids out and declaring today national hemorrhoid day.So we're shining the light on him right. I'm changing. Everyone likes to have their hemorrhoids eliminated. Oh,I emailed the national hemorrhoid committee and found out there is not one I made myself president. And by doing so. I voted. I was I filled a quorum and I was able to change it this morning. Today's national hemorrhoid day quit arguing with me. So I'm done. And I'll just go ahead and move on to I like the fact that you use the word quorum and they were using the words hemorrhoid because both of those are kind of hard to spell. Once you give me you were telling me you were second runner up in the deck. cater local spelling bee in 1978 was ityeah much like your impromptu declared hemorrhoid national day I was the only one who showed up and I still came in second.Alright, so before we jump into hemorrhoids man what's going on with your life? What's going on with the Rieger household?We are preparing to actually follow your footsteps we are about to renovate the house and sweeping changes about to move everything out today to the house the one that we just moved into so we're going to really justis upgraded did you do the renovations? Like we did? Did you flood the house first? No choose to renovate it. Wetried to order a freeze and it didn't quite work out. But now in about a week and a half we get started should take about a month. I don't think it's nearly as extensive as what you're doing. But yeah, we'll update some stuff. Mack is back in the throes of offseason basketball. Murray's got her new company up and going gage is back out finishing up his first full year in college. So you know, they're doing well. Howabout you? That's awesome. Oh, the brown households doing well. Lots of tennis going on. I think Lucas is playing on that ITF circuit and both Carl and Lucas have tournaments this weekend. So that's, that's cool. love to see everybody healthy out there able to do that kind of thing. You know, suffering through a little bit of a small neck injury that I now i i appreciate when you can get out there and play the sports that you want to play and have fun the way you want to have fun. Sodefinitely check that what episode was was Wade McKenna,who early on very early. Yeah, that was back in the original students how we even did this that was back in the spoony studio.So his episode was specifically on stem cells from his perspective. He's one of the world's leading experts.You throw a little y'all bro. Yeah, I'll throw a little information out there. Right. So I injured my neck. And which is a really, really common injury and there's typical traditional medicine that people do. And one of our read one of our guests maybe guest number five or sixWade McKenna,he's Dr. Wade McKenna happens to be a world expert on stem cell. So I texted him and said, Get an act thing going on. I want to I don't want to play around with this. I went and made an appointment with him. Super cool guy. Super cool staff absolutely phenomenal out at trophy club. He spent a long time with me. And we went through everything and I'm going to do stem cells. We're gonna see what happens. I hear Joe Rogan talk about stem cells all the time. Yeah. And honestly, there's varying differences with how people respond to it. But if you're gonna do it, you go with the person who's been doing it the longest that does the most the person that that Rogan had on to talk about it was who Wade used to open up his Panama clinic with Neil Riordan. Yeah. Neil Riordan.I'm pretty excited. And we won't spend too much time because this is about hemorrhoids. However, I think it's really cool on that episode, if you go back and check it, you'll learn that lots of stem cell failure is due to people not knowing how to even even the physicians themselves may not be using the best technique for sure there's there'shandling of stem cells doing things but he did on our podcast, he explained how he did research as a residence. He has been doing this autologous bone marrow use with stem cells, which nobody, which people are now just scratching the surface. He's been doing it for a long time and even had the Panama clinic where because the laws were a little bit more relaxed, and he could do some things that he had been doing research on. So I'm excited. So I'll keep everybody updated to what happens because if it if it goes well, and I imagine it really well, I'll be really excited that I can if I look 20 years younger, not that I took 10 bottles of Toronto at one time for the anti aging polyphenols. It's because those stem cells are kicking in but you know, we'll see. All right. This is kind of cool. I didn't even realize this. This threw me off. I'm really excited. Also, on episode 35, we interviewed ron paul Bundy. Oh yeah. Yep. generosity, generosity fee. So Eric and I, my family's out of town. Eric brought his family we went and we participated in one of generosity feeds, making campaigns or what is it? Yeah, wedid the food baking campaign where we packed all of the lunches for over I think that one was 11,000 meals that we did for kids who essentially just don't have a means to eat during the weekends. Yeah,it's it's absolutely shocking. So what Ron on that on that episode explained, is that how many children rely on the school system to get the only meals that they get right? Even in like what you would consider affluent areas, there's going to be people that still need the assistance. And so what they do is they have teamed up with a nutritionist and stuff that devised a very, I guess you would call it healthy, nutrient rich meal. Definitely that is sustainable. And so what we did is we packed rice and beans and seasoning and everything's all they got to do is you just give it to the child when they walk out the door, right and then they get there. We're able to eat over the weekend until the school is able to do it. I think it's a phenomenal thing and the fact that they're in so demand so anyways, it's been a year dude. And party on purpose is up again and we're gonna be sponsors again. So last year we helped sponsor What what? what Tim power setup with Austin down and yeah, it was a year ago. We were justwondering that pandemic stuff. That'swhat we were doing the pandemic, everybody was like this weird thing that's happening what's going on? Yeah, it was one year ago. So we're going to be sponsors, again, a party on purpose. And I would like everybody to take a look at Episode 35. And just see the special work that generosity feeds is doing and robbing Ron club Andy and his passion for it is really amazing. helps a lot of kids who just don't just don't have a voice, and it's pretty awesome. Yeah, so we've had some really sciency shows recently, a couple maybe a little too sciency. And, you know, I'm feeling like we're not doing good justice to the other arts. I went to a liberal arts college. Did you know that?I did know that. Yeah.My mom taught there and I went there. Good. Old Danna college that no longer exists.So you're not going to the reunion. So what what is it about that and it reminded you of your college?Well, I was gonna jump into the science of hemorrhoids. Oh, it's really cool stuff. And I thought, Wait a minute. No, let's, let's bring in some other arts into this. Let's be a full spectrum podcast.Okay. I'm excited.I'd like to kick some history. Okay.Let's find out.Yeah, let's kick some history. So I was sitting there preparing for this. And I'm, specifically I want to talk about the history of the toilet.Ooh, yeah. Okay.I mean, we take it for granted. It's something that in other people's worlds, my favorite thing is when patients come to me and they're like, I don't want to talk about this. But no matter what they're gonna say, I'm like, I talk about this all the time. Yeah. No, you can't say anything, but I'm not gonna go. Oh, yeah. So specifically the toilet and quick trivia quiz. Okay, first documentation of a toilet. Do you have any idea of when it actually took place? When when we when historians believe that there may have been the beginnings of writing about a particular thing that could have been a toilet? I'm just going to guess because of irrigation? Maybe in Rome? I don't know. That was interesting. 3000 bc and Scotland?No kidding.Yeah, that's what they that's what archaeologists believe was the first plausible thing that is a toilet, but it wasn't written about and you're exactly right. You're exactly right on this, but they think that the true record didn't start taking place until 315. Ad by the Romans. Okay.Make sense?Yeah. And this is kind of fun. Okay, because it's gonna play into what we're going to talk about later. All right. But the toilets at that time, were actually public toilets. And they were situated like in a square next to each other. And it was considered a social event to go poop. Oh, with the community.So could that be considered the first buches?They sell beaver nuggets?Oh, my gosh, that explains so much. Because I was looking at these archeological digs. And there was these little carvings of like this little beaver with a hat. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, the Romans actually started the first buches. But anyways, so they build these, these toilets in public locations where people would gather, and they would socially poop next to each other, right? Men and women, just just kind of part of it. And then there would be a stick attached to your toilet with a sponge on the end with which you would clean yourself.Hopefully, you'rethe first No, yeah, well, hopefully you are. But you're never the first because once it's there, it stays. And then you dip it in water and shake it off. And some historians believe that that is the origin of I'm not making this up of getting the wrong end of the stick. Wow. Well, trivia for you.Yeah, I never knew what was the right end of the stick was thrown out. That's a really good point.So if you're a private pooper, and Tim poop in public, remember that Romans would rather be like, Hey, I'm having a dinner party and a pooping party. So let's all eat and then we will go gather in the pooping room together and use the sponge that we've others have used 1000s of times,the Romans had a lot of ideas, wrestlingthings so thank goodness, during the medieval times, people became way more dignified, I mean, way more dignified. Sure. So they started pooping in private in a pot. Okay, which and then they would poop in their pot and then they would go to the window and they would throw it out on the street.How pleasantthat's what they were doing. Yeah. So, yeah, the medieval times they would throw the contents out there. And then in 1560s, sir john Harrington developed the first flush toilet a pipe that went straight down john Harrington, where john Well, this is funny because sadly his invention would go ignored for 200 years. Wow. That's like one of those things where you're like, you invent something that is really novel and exciting. Yeah, they didn't have social media back then try and promote it. You can take out Facebook ads and know that so john was out there, here, you here, you can poop over here. And, you know, it was documented that he did it. But then in 1775, so 200 years later, Alexander Cummings took his idea put an S shape at the bottom it was a pipe Yeah, and then that controlled the fumes that were coming back out Sure. Which made a world of difference and POW it took off and I mean, it literally took off the poop took off unfortunately, Alexander Cummings didn't think it through too far because then it just went through an S shape and then into a pit. Okay in and so in 1848 everybody was using these toilets and Britain had to Britain actually required that homes be built with an ash room a s h Okay, not bathroom ashra Ashram Okay, where the waste would be collected in a pile of ash. And who knows? If you think you have a bad job where night soil men that was the night soil night soil man would come by and empty your ash roomsay that fast.can't apply for that job. So tell me Eric, what makes you qualified to be in Knight soil man,I'm good at nothing else.Who takes that job? So if you're if you're upset about your job, remember, you could have been paid Knight's oil man. And then of course the one that everybody remembers here. And so you this lead up to it was funny because I always thought this guy invented in 1861, a guy named Thomas crapper patented a series of toilets and then the whole expansion on plumbing took off and this is what you now have in your home you sit in your home. I bring this up because I don't really think that we can talk about hemorrhoids without on national hemorrhoids. I'm going to keep referring to this as national hemorrhoids. I don't think we can talk about hemorrhoids on national hemorrhoid day without discussing toilets because it all plays into it. Okay, so that's my history lesson for you. I don't think we've ever done history before.Not well not about toilets. No, not quite like that. That's interesting. I actually always thought that with crappers first name was john. I didn't know as Thomas crapper. That's funny.Yeah,but it makes sense. No, no, you did say that. But the earlier the first guy was john Harrington. I guess they just overtime they kind of morph those two together. I think it's prettyThomas crapper. Funny. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? I'm gonna head to the john. Yeah. Take a crap. You're right. Right there.Yeah, there.There it is. That's how you want second place indicator spelling. Alright, so now back to the original question. Can younger people get him?Absolutely.So this is really intriguing. I went down some rabbit holes on this one. So as it turns out, recent data is showing that there is a significant increase in hemorrhoids with late Generation Z and millennials. Okay. And the real question is why? Me? There'sonly because we've, we've talked about that long term sitting, can do that there must be something that's drawing people to either sit more frequently or more importantly, sit longer.What do you think you are? 100%? Correct. On a prior episode, we did discuss a funny study. We thought it was kind of funny. We're in 2012. They did a survey in 2012. Right? 75% of the people admitted to taking their smartphone into the bathroom, the other 25 are lying about it. And then Verizon saw that as an opportunity. And they did their own study. And granted, it's from Verizon, June 2015 90% of the people admitted to it.Well, they know where yours they probably definitely know.Yeah, and there's an actual study ongoing right now. It started in 2018. I looked it up on clinical trials.gov where they are looking into the actual correlation to make it more scientific, interesting. And what they're saying is that as we continue to move forward, Generation Z, taking the phone into the restroom is basically built into the DNA. So I did I did a survey this morning, and I took a poll of Generation Z people around me now. Yeah, 100% of them said yes. 100% Use a phone. I believe that other estimates, maybe other regions, not in my area where 95%. But 100% of the Gen Z people that I interviewed, right said that they use their phone that way. Sothis is important, because I think what we need to ask you is how many people did you ask my son? There's wine.But that is 100%. It's a 100%. Yeah. So that's just shows to make sure that you look at the actual study design and data whenever something like this all the time, it's all the more time. So necessarily, the podcast is sponsored by these apps. But my medical practice is sponsored by these apps. Yeah, so I would like to give a shout out for our sponsors, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, tick tock. Yeah, somehow Reddit got left off, but I believe read, it should be on there. So there's all these articles now talking about this. And there's certainly lots of opinion pieces. And there's lots of blogs and stuff where they're interviewing colorectal surgeons and gastroenterologist and asking their opinions. And they what they actually talk about is that it's probably not about the app. It's more about the time sitting on the toilet. And I believe that's part of it. And that's what I want to get into with this guy. Because I believe that there's more going on than that. And I have a theory as to why those apps in particular, cause more damage. You'll notice it like candy crush isn't on there and things like that. When people really spend time they tend to go to those apps and I'm going to explain that later. Okay, so let's start with some basics. Alright. Alright, you fire questions. And well, let's talk you know, just as much about this topic, as I do. So let's just say what are hemorrhoids?It's when vessels of belief can becoming gorged people will probably notice them when they are external. But there are external internal hemorrhoids, you'll probably want to delineate between the two of those typically, oh, it's the number one reason that people notice bleeding, rectal bleeding, correct. They can become painful at different things like that. I don't remember how many vessels it is, can become a gorge two or three, typically, and, but if caught early enough, can be treated by a gastroenterologist and pretty much eliminated.Yeah. 100%. So it is a natural collection of veins. And I remember talking to a colorectal surgeon, I use all the time, Dr. Macaluso, and he goes, Hey, keep in mind that this is an arterial venous connection also. And I only say this because this reminds me of a story what early on in my career, like really early on I was in the hospital, I get called to go see an ICU patient that was crashing, absolutely crashing cirrhotic patient that was crashing, and blood was shooting out of this person's butt. And they were just running bags, and his pressure just kept dropping. He's like, Hey, we can't we have no time to wait, you got to come in here. It's probably variceal his massive bleeding. I scope him up top. totally clean. No viruses. Yeah. And I'm like, well, and he's still bleeding. And I'm like, either he decompressed them. So I'm like, we had an emergency call and flip them around. And this is all bedside and I'm early on. So if what I mean by that is I guess over time, you start seeing more and you kind of, you know, shrug stuff off and go another one of these this was like, out of left field. Like on a like a Monday afternoon. They're like you need to cancel clinic and go to the ICU right now. And so I, I end up scoping this person in blood is throughout the entire colon. And I'm like, I can't find the source. I can't find the source. I'm coming back. And there, I come back. And I retroflex this is before I started treating hemorrhoids. And I'm like, the rectum is just feeling full of blood. Uh huh. And I I said call. Like, I apologize, forgot his name down so many years ago, but I said, Call this guy get them on the phone. He's a colorectal surgeon that had just left the university and had come over and was joined the group that Dr. Macaluso was at. And so I said, Man, I got this guy, whatever he goes, this could be a massive hemorrhoidal bleed. People forget that. It's an arteriovenous connection connection. Yeah. And he's like, Are you comfortable banding it I'm like, I've never done it. And he goes, just treat it like it's a virus. Like it's a variceal bleed. I'm like, okay, anyone describe what a virus sees is their sees when people have liver failure. pressure builds up and actually when the blood tries to go to the liver, it backs up, fills up and then it the spleen gets big, the spleen fills up and then you end up shunting blood. It's all applying up to the gastro esophageal veins. These come up this way. And those veins can dilate and they can actually pop. Oh, yeah. And unfortunately, people will bleed a ton when they actually have that. And so what we do is we go down with the camera and then we do a rubber band ligation on the various hillbillies. So at this point, he's like, I'm gonna come over and see what's going on. And I loaded up a banner. I put one band, and it's like a scene from a movie with the clouds this. Birds start chirping blood pressure comes up one band and I was like, Wow. So that's so although they can be a nuisance in very, very, very rare circumstances, they can be like a really big deal. And that particular time it was a really big deal. Yeah, it's a big deal. So, yes, collection of veins and they weren't like shock absorbers. So all of us have hemorrhoids. If you don't have hemorrhoids. You're an alien. Yeah. Or Ilan musk.He lives Ilan.I don't know. Yeah, I'm thinking he doesn't have them. He's, he's not of this world. He's not of this world. So and they look like shock absorbers. But when you build up too much pressure, then they will fill up. And they're it's a it's a vein that can actually stretch. Yeah. And if too much pressure builds up, then it goes into the extra hemorrhoids, then the extra hemorrhoids get big. And that's when people really notice them because they hurt because there's a line called the dentate line, where you have pain fibers below it. No pain fibers above it. So frequently, I'll get people that will come in when they have an external thing. Yeah. And then we realize well, it's the internal ones feeding the external so if you've ever had an external hemorrhoid it's probably because your internal your internal hemorrhoids have grown and it's created a diversion for the pressure over there. And it hurts bad over there. And you're right, they can bleed edge pain thrombose. incidence, how many people do you think have issues with hemorrhoids?I don't know. How many people I've got no idea. It seems like it seems like it's it's really often for those that we see in our line of work, but that you know, that's that's a kind of a skewed sample size.is a little bit skewed. Yeah.I don't know. I'm just gonna throw a number out there cuz I really have no idea. One in more than 20. I don't know.120. Okay.I have no idea. It's probably bigger than that.Well, this is interesting, because on up to date, which is supposed to be the most up to date thing that I subscribe to I pay service to the incident is a study show that up to 14% of us people had hemorrhoid issues. And that seemed really small. And I realized that I'm skewed on this. And then I started researching more. I went and found that study, it was done in 1989. Wow. The only study that was published on the incidence of true hemorrhoids was done in 1989. Now looking back and other studies where people are mentioning them on colonoscopies and such Yeah, it's way more than that more recent data is that one in three people have issues and that incidence is going up. That's one in three people seeking the care of a doctor interesting. And then I started looking at the number of people that are or the amount of money that's being spent in over the counter medications. It's in the hundreds of millions. So it's gotta be way it's gonna be even more than one in three. I would even say that most people at some point in today's society may have a hemorrhoid issue even if they don't realize that it's a hemorrhoid issue.Yeah, wow. Yeah, I was I was off by at least three to five fold. They'renot close. So like but but you're exactly right. In my world. Everyone has a hemorrhoid. Yeah,I feel like I've rescued because we see, dude.It's like that. That time in Nebraska when I was running the the free STD clinic. And I got interviewed. They're like, how many people have committee? I'm like, all of them. All of them. Everybody does.I was skewed. I didn't realize that there's I'm wearing my silver x suit.So I am a hemorrhoid doctor or I treat hemorrhoids. So everybody seems to have it right. Or at least they funnel to me. I probably should remember that time and I did that free STD clinic. But anyways, alright, so why did I even bring up him? Why did I even bring up toilets? In the beginning, when we're talking about hemorrhoids?Oh, because we're sitting. And on top of that, not only are we sitting, I know this, we're straining, we're gonna applying pressure. So applying pressure sitting for longer. I think when you're reading through your statistics, it sounds to me like the incidence is rising. So now we're going to start looking at what could potentially make us be sitting longer. In a spot where we are increasing our pressure,we think 100%. So what people don't realize is, and it's funny, because this particular patient asked, Do you think that we're seeing more hemorrhoids because of COVID? Because people are sitting instead of? And yes, and then I started thinking about it. I was like, but why is the toilet different? Like how does this support, there's no support hole. So what you've done is they've put a hole there so that the your rectum is now lower, you form a king, the blood pools there And sure, which is why sitting on a toilet scrolling through your abs is one of the reasons why more blood can pool in that area.Okay, so there was some context around that. So essentially sitting on the toilet seat is actually more conducive to forming hemorrhoids more rapidly than just sittingsomewhere flat. Correct. Okay. And then this is one of the things when we talk about the evolution of the, of the toilet. I was really funny because I was googling this. And then what came up was a blog that I wrote in 2011. About the angle of dedication. Yeah, angle that we poop at our Western toilets, actually are not conducive to proving right. And one of my biggest pet peeves is in the older population. They make the toilets very high, so that they can get off of it easy the wrong way to go. Exact wrong way to go. Because as you change from a sitting to a squatting position, yeah, squatting is how we're actually supposed to be moving. Yeah. Which is why if you go to Middle East, certain Asian countries, the toilets are on the ground. Yeah, that's really the way that you should be. Yeah. And they did a study, the blog that I wrote was a Japanese study where they took med students which is I just thought it was a funny study. And they did they put barium paste in these med students. And then they made them poop. multiple different angles. Yeah. So it was like, you're like, there's there's labs that do this where there's like an audience watching and you just kind of like I mean, that's just yeah, we'rethe modern day ash. shovelers arethe descendants of the ash, soil man. What am I call night soil?Well, people really sure it's not a job I'm going for No,it's not but certainly the descendents night soil man.They do now.Dr. Satish Rao who runs the anal rectal lab, and I got in Georgia, he's probably gonna look this up and go, great, great, great. Night soil man. You can read some of the work that he's done on this Dr. Rouse done some most of the work on the anal rectal movement. I remember watching him in a lecture and he showed his lab which is a barium toilet. And then our panel of people that watch on a large screen as a cameras there. And he said john, unfortunately designed it a little bit wrong shift and walk up a couple steps and sometimes people they can't hold the Wow. Because the whole time I mean, I'm just like watching this as a gastroenterologist. I'm like, that is a profoundly invasive thing. When you go I'm gonna go to the doctor, what are you gonna do? I'm gonna I'm gonna go poop in front of an audience. Yes,Ma'am, I'm missing my appointment.Sir, you're 15 minutes late, we're gonna have to reschedule. Oh, shoot. So anyways, squatting is the best. So toilets contribute to it in its own right. Sure. And it's called the angle of dedication. Basically, you have a muscle that wraps around when you stand. It's there so that it kinks it. So that when you're walking around, you have several safeguards. So you don't put yourself right. Internal sphincter, external sphincter and even this thing. And that thing is always tight. The people retells muscles, so as you sit, the angle becomes so as it's, when you're standing, the muscles will tighten. And as you sit, the muscle relaxes, and then it allows for a straighter, straighter shot. Yeah. So that's one of the reasons the toilets are an important part. And then if you spend more time in it, so if you're wondering, the best way to poop, lift your knees up. squatty potty style. Oh, it's fine. Yeah, it's a product, but you can do it with anything, get your knees up above your hips lean slightly forward. And that's the best way to poop. So let's talk about prevention of hemorrhoids.Well, since we were talking about toilet seat whole while ago, I was going to make sure you weren't going to say you should just poop on a flat board. So I'm glad that wasn't one of the solutions. Just sounds incredibly messy. So prevention, find things when number one probably find a way to to consume the foods that allow you to make good stool to come out. Be certain that you're not doing activities that make you want to stay on a toilet longer, walk around smoking, the new sitting.Oh, explain that real quick. smoking's the new settings you through that our settings in settings, the new smoking, sorry, setting, sitting sitting, the new smokingsettings, the new smoking, there was a there's been a handful of different studies, but most recently, I think it was almost two years ago, there was a study where they showed that the comorbidities that people can develop over time was commensurate with how many hours of a day they were sitting and as people begin to sit longer and longer. throughout the day. They had more incidents of obesity, hypertension, just on and on die, diabetes. I can't remember what else lifespan, lifespan latwon lifespan and lifespan if ik quality of life,the quality of life so the your likelihood of dying is equivalent. If used a certain amount of hours a day is equivalent to smoking like a pack a day. Yeah. For like 30 years.Yep. Something like that. Yeah.That's wild. Yeah. Soany and actually, they say that if you did that routinely, you actually couldn't overcome it through rigorous exercise. That's right. Yes. It was almost like there wasn't a way to combat the long sedentary periods of the day or something like that.I remember exactly. You're making me Can you hold on the podcast? Well, Imean, podcasts aren't two hours anymore.We read that study. Back in the early days, Eric and I were doing marathon podcasts were like Joe Rogan gets that many views with three hours. Let's do six hours. Yeah,I decided I didn't want to be a smoker.So you're exactly right. Don't sit too long on a toilet. If you're sitting there for a very long time, then that's just gonna lead to hemorrhoids. And what you're talking about proper diet. So eating fiber, actually 20 to 30 grams of fiber. just published a blog yesterday, on getting enough fiber does have this Yeah. So go to Kenneth Brown, or go to Kenneth Brown, MD. com. You can see these you can see this blog. But basically, it's how to get 20 to 30 grams of fiber and soluble insoluble. The distinction. The distinction is, it's To me, it's a lot of overlap a lot of gray, I think you need both. Basically, if you're eating your veggies, in having some fruit, you're probably you're probably pretty good and getting your fiber. Yeah. So 20 to 30 grams. And then the question that everyone's gonna ask is, well, are there any supplements that I can take for this?supplements for hemorrhoids, for hemorrhoids? I think there is one key ingredient within artron to that has research behind it and the horse just notYeah, so wild. So I just assumed that there would be like five or six that have. So I signed up to examine calm, shout out to them, because they actually go through the effort of doing everything research backed, and they have what's called a human matrix panel, where you can see what the human studies are. Alright, so it's the human matrix. So there's, there may be animal studies. And shockingly, the only one that showed any evidence of decreasing hemorrhoids was horse chestnut, or the extract and horse chestnut called asen. And I'll read exactly what the the one study that actually that they referenced on this is that supplementation of three times a day of horse chestnut, 40 milligrams asen, for over the course of a day in a short period of time with somebody with hemorrhoids was associated with this significant reduction in symptoms, bleeding and improvement in endoscopic evaluation. I didn't even know this. And what they showed is that there's a 32 response in the placebo arm, but an 82 response 82% response in the arm that actually got the horse chestnut, and most benefits were apparent within six days. So it's not like you have to take it forever. Wow. Now, what's really interesting is when we're talking about something like I'll try and steal that may help you go to the bathroom easier, and it's got a horse chestnut in it. I haven't even been having my hemorrhoids. Patients take it because I just really kind of use it for the polyphenol effect on those that do not have bloating. And if you have bloating, I'm gonna recommend it. Right. But now we're looking at a whole new aspect here of horse Jessa being for him, butyeah, I remember when you first found that study, it was just kind of a eureka moment. I, I didn't know that.Yeah. So now speaking of eureka moment, here's mine about this topic. So every other colorectal surgeon and gastroenterologist on all these different blogs or interviews or TV spots and stuff like that. They were there said, well, it's not really the phone that's doing it. It's just the time on the toilet. I want to disagree with that a little bit. And I'm gonna I'm gonna see if you agree cuz this is purely theoretical here. But there's something called pelvic floor dyskinesia, okay? pelvic floor dyskinesia is when the muscles down below. They are not responding the way that you want them to respond. Okay? It's very common in women who have had babies. And so I'll bring people in. And it's typical of the person that says, I get the urge, but I feel like I've not fully evacuated or it takes way too long to get the stool out. Yeah. And that's when I have my discussion about squatty potty and, and lifting your knees up above and leaning forward, making sure there's enough fiber the fiber will bind the stool together so that hopefully, it brings moisture in along with binding it so that it all comes on at once. The typical person that has something like this as they struggle to go and when they go to the restroom, it's small, uneventful stores, you know, they talk about it being just like small rattle millet, rabbit pellets, things like that. So now knowing that pelvic floor dyskinesia is associated with some emotional response, because it's muscles they tense up. And they believe that they are relaxing the muscles when in reality, they're tensing them. So when I examine somebody, I'll go, can you relax your anus for me? And they'll frequently, many times can't do it. I'll be like, contract your anus for me. And they'll squeeze their butt cheeks, but the anus doesn't contract, right? And then when I say try and expel my finger, like you're having a bowel movement, everything clamps down. And I'm like, does this and then I can get them to relax. And that's what Satish Rouse Dr. Satish Rao's whole lab works on is this and there's Laureen forgot her last name. lorien is a physical therapist that specializes in only this, and I spend a lot of patients so we're gonna have her on the podcast at one time to really deep dive into this one top pelvic floor experience, pelvic floor expert. And yeah, because it's not just deputation, it can, it can lead to dyspareunia, which is pain during intercourse, it can lead to spasms in the bladder calledstatus, it can lead to a lot of other things and that without with the poor, and that could be way off here poor pelvic floor tone can lead to the need for like bladder slings and stuff like that, forsure. All of that over time leads to that. So the more you keep doing this, that's what a rectal seal is. Yeah, that's what prolapse happens from and other things. So it's not something that if you're having these issues, so if you're like the twin, mid 20 year old that's doing this, we got to correct these things now, because if you continue to let this happen over time, the muscles start relaxing the nerves start thinking it's normal. And then that happens. So my theory is this. Number one, you're on these particular apps, okay, these apps can be associated with an emotional trigger shares all imagine going into the bathroom sitting down, you hit Facebook, you're trying to go poop, and you realize that you weren't invited to a dinner party, a party. Yeah. And then you start going on, you start scrolling through the pictures. And it's emotionally upsetting. you hop on Instagram and see a very, or Twitter and see a very angry political posts that get you riled up. As you do this, your sympathetic tone goes up, which is the fight or flight, and you will tend to contract muscles. So I would love to do a study on that, in particular, like you get to use your phone in the bathroom, but you can only I'm just I'm have a great idea. We're gonna hold on and I need your help on that. Okay. Okay. So basically, these particular apps in general, put you on the toilet longer, but then you can actually become emotionally invested in what you're looking at. I think you and I should design an app. Okay. How would you do it?probably find something that would make me completely relax. And well, actually, we we know people who have technology to have scientifically backed data to to help one relax, and possibly utilize a mobile device.Yeah, we need a bit. So you're about brain.fm? Yeah, yeah. Dan Clark CEO. Interesting, very interesting. Imagine having we need to set the brain.fm has a patented technology, which is called neural phase locking, where and I'm going to, we've talked to their PhD. Oh, yeah, super smart. And I'm not going to pretend to explain it. But basically, you can increase the activity in a certain part of your brain so that you can focus when you want to focus Mack and sleep when you want to sleep. You can relax, chill,anti anxiety, yeah, antianxiety. We got to sit with him and be like, let's team up.awesome idea.Let's do a pooping app where we're going to stimulate an area and then we'll just we'll combine that with the headspace guy. Have you ever listened to headspace?Is that the guy from New Zealand or Australia?Yeah, it's huge. headspace is huge. Yeah, you know. Hi. Welcome back.Yeah, yeah,we're gonna talk today about emotional stress it just hot Welcome back. I see that you're on the loo.Don't stay here too long.I'm going to talk you through this. Now make sure your knees are up. And you are leaning slightly forward. Please know while this app is running, no other apps can be opened.You are stuck here until you're finished.And at at a certain amount, you will be required to stand up walk around. And then we'll make it so that the only way to turn it off is the sound of a flushing toilet.Yeah. Then that actually is not a terrible idea. Nota terrible idea at all.I'll tell you what was funny though. I got to confess some because I was laughing a little bit earlier before you got to that. In case y'all don't know, this guy, and I hardly ever been This guy does not use social media apps and watching you struggle for what people are looking for in Twitter. And what else did you mentioned Facebook and Instagram. That was awesome. He has no idea what makes you mad when you get on those apps. You're trying to find out.But all I know is every day I get on my MySpace page, and it's just blank. I don't know whypeople don't like me, man, you treat your your laptop like a Solitaire machine.I actually believe that. Well, fortunately, I'm a total nerd. So I would rather actually read some journal articles. Yeah, no, totally.Yeah. 100%.Yeah. And I mean, shout out to everybody that's crushing it out there. Like, you know, Tony yuans. A friend and his Instagram is just chilling. Well, he's,he's actually on it.Yeah. He's doing a good job with that. Yeah. And I admire that. Yes. That's awesome. But yeah, but anyways, I think we should do it. We should get into the app business and figure out how to and obviously we can't afford the headspace guy at this point. But I think what how is your accent? Let's hearno, now it's not very good. I would have to think about thealways starts with Welcome back. Yeah. And it's really cool. very soothing. Welcome back.Very rarely get described with a calling voice. Eric is not really what happened.You were starting to sound like the NPR SNL episode of Alec Baldwin.That's the only thing I do.Alright, so anyways, that's that's my theory, pelvic floor dyskinesia. So if you've ever been on the toilet and realize that you're looking at something that may be emotionally may be an emotional trigger, that may be causing some of the issues. Yes, that's my theory. And that's why I think that the advent of the smartphone is doing that. So now treatment, other than some prevention, so treatment, there's lots of treatment out there. That is a whole separate episode unto itself. Yeah, sure. And to do it justice, we will bring some serious experts in here that do like like a colorectal surgeon that does surgery and understands the anatomy inside and out. But the treatment that I do, that's a whole separate episode, of course, but basically, if you have them, speak with your doctor, I want to say one thing for sure. If you see rectal bleeding, it is never, never, never, ever, ever normal. Even if you're saying, Oh, it's probably just hemorrhoids. Now you need to have it checked out no matter what. Yeah, and as always, our little disclaimer is that this is a medical show, but I'm not your doctor, if you have anything, anything at all that you're concerned about, please discuss it with your doctor. And if this gets one person to go in and talk to their doctor about it, and we can remove a polyp or or you can prevent colon cancer. Yeah, that is a huge deal. And if it is hemorrhoids, you want to get them treated early before they become too big. Because the reality is that hemorrhoids come in different stages. Yeah, so in internal hemorrhoids, they're one through four. So internal hemorrhoids grade one, they pop up, they can bleed some times. But you don't really notice hole at grade two, when you go to the bathroom, they pop out. So frequently, patients will come to me and they're like, I felt something that I was going to the bathroom. And now I don't grade two hemorrhoids, they pop out spontaneously because you're in that position. And once the pressure is relieved, it goes back in grade three, you have to manually reduce it. And grade four, they stay out all the time. So if you're having any of this, if you're having any symptoms like that, the sooner you get it treated, the more likely you do not need surgery surgery, trying to avoid surgery at essentially all costs. The type of treatment I do is called is a modified banding procedure. So if you talk to your parents, and they say oh, I had hemorrhoid banding done, it hurt really bad. It's come a long way and the old way of doing it was to grab the hemorrhoid itself plays a rubber band and Remember when I said earlier that there's that dentate line below it is pain above it is no pain. The way that this works is the type of banding that I do is the reagan ligation right go up above where the dentate line is place a rubber band above the hemorrhoid. And the reason why is so that the vein that is supplying it, you actually create a little scar and it decreases the blood flow. So it isn't so much cutting out the hemorrhoid. It's just over time getting it to calm down. And I treat a lot of these. It's one of my favorite things to do because I get such good response from patients in a very quick amount of time where you do it, they come back and they're like, wow, I'm already better. That's fantastic. It is the safest, least invasive and most effective way to treat these symptomatic hemorrhoids. I got some videos on this. You can go to Kenneth Brown, MD calm and take a look. I'm a big big proponent, but mostly if you're having any symptoms, go talk to your doctor, get your colonoscopy done. We did a whole episode on colon cancer. Definitely. And so that's the really important thing.random question and maybe this will help someone if you're sitting on the fence. What is the possibility or probability that a hemorrhoid will just suddenly resolve itself?So that is a great question. Because remember, in the very beginning was said that they are shock absorbers. Yep. So they can actually increase in decrease. And there's a bunch of risk factors for hemorrhoids sitting a long time. pregnancy is one of them. So I have a lot of women that will say, Well, I got them with my first child, I got them with my second child, and then they and then they go away, because the pressure is relieved, and they can do this. People that modify their diet, they're like, it was really bad. But then I changed my diet, I increased a lot of fiber, and there is a chance that they can go away. So we always recommend first line is to try to do the preventative stuff. Let's change your diet. Let's change your lifestyle with the toilet. And if it doesn't get better and continues, and then we can actually treat them so yes, they can go away. And I think by the time this is why I think that the incidence is really underreported. Yeah. Because by the time somebody actually comes to me, it's never like, Oh, this this happened once a week ago. It's always like, all right, I've been dealing with these for a long time. They seem to keep getting worse. Because of my hobbies. I like to work out jujitsu I get a lot of people that strain a whole lot. It's just the nature of it because when you're straining a whole lot you're gonna have that I get a lot of you know, people that are in vigorous jobs that do that so it's it can happen any age, any lifestyle it can happen some of this is genetic also. So we do know that there is a genetic component where whether it's the elasticity of the veins or not that's all kind of been figured out but so yes, they can go away so by lifestyle modification, maybe even you know, supplementation according to the one study unexamined calm did help.Yeah. Interesting. That's a lot of information about hemorrhoids well, and we never got to it. Wehave spell hemorrhoid. Oh, let's see if we can do this is National hemorrhoid day and we are at the National hemorrhoid day spelling bee with reigning runner up Eric Rieger.were no first place participant in that particular spelling the reigning runner up. He mm r h Lidy All right.Let's do it in true spelling bee format.So hemorrhoid hemorrhoid can you use them to sentencemy hemorrhoids are killing me today. hemorrhoidsgo originof the Spanish origin the emulator IDs which by the way, this is really important we're gonna have to translate everything ever since our Silvia podcasts were huge in Spain right now. Huge Yeah, no toy these Mr. Ortiz? Okay. him Roy which I think would be Latin in origin.It's gotta be hemorrhoid h MMR. h od?Yeah, no, he m o r. Every time I do every time that's what made you lose back in 1978. No,that's not what made me lose.So anyways, I'm trying to make light of something that a lot of people are embarrassed to talk about. That was kind of the goal of today's podcast, but it's super important and easy to fix. so common that now we have 20 year olds coming in worried that they're abnormal and we've got very fit people thinking that's abnormal and it's it's really just something that's part of our society now and treating it and getting it treated early is probably the key to this.Definitely. Well get yourself checked if you see any anal or bleeding when you wipe etc.See the toilet go view so there's a few other diseases that cause bleeding and one of my favorites is ulcerative proctitis ulcerative colitis, I'm a big inflammatory bowel disease fan. We're working on some stuff for our inflammatory bowel disease patients. In the meantime, if you suffer from any bloating or change in bowel habits, remember artron to go to artron to calm and take a look at that now that you realize that there's horse chest in there right there on the label and you have some hemorrhoids I'd be curious to see if it affects them according to this one study and of course KB MD health calm for CBD and broccoli, the biohack combo of artron to CBD and broccoli.For our for on camera like that.Oh yeah, probably not.Yeah. So this is broccoli. There we go.We did a whole episode with the founder of broccoli and their PhD. I just love it when there's like minded people that are sciency and everything and so we'll say I don't know. Let me know if you take all three and your hemorrhoids you better be curious to see.Absolutely. Well, that's gonna do it for episode number 53. Thank you all so much for joining us please like and share. And of course if you know anybody who suffers from hemorrhoids or you do Reach out to your gastroenterologist or your health care provider and they can point you in the right direction.Now if you're in the neighborhood, I'd be happy to talk to you.Alright, take care

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Hello Gut Check Project fans. Welcome to Gut Check Project and KBMD health family. I'm Eric Rieger here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. We have another special show. We just keep we just keep outdoing ourselves with smart people. I'm like I normally I've well I'm becoming very comfortable being the stupidest person on these zoom calls right now this is like this is the new norm, me being the absolute dumbest person on the screen right now.If you're the well, that's thank you. That's really weird. And and if you're the dumbest, then this is gonna be a really, really intelligent show. So today, Episode Number 52. We have a special guest. This is Dr. Charlene Van Buiten. She is an Assistant Professor of food science and Human Nutrition at Colorado State University. Hello, Charlene. How are you doing today?I'm doing well. How are you guys Doing great. We're doing great. I'm not going to introduce the paperwork that we're going to get into. But what I am interested...before we get into some incredible information about your research around celiac disease, and how essentially people can stave off long term inflammation. We always like to get to know a little bit about you. But we did print off your resume. And it looks to me like from all of the stuff that you do in the CV, that you started sometime in the womb getting things done.So you've been like publishing papers in utero somehow.Yeah, yeah. It's it's a really rare skill. So.So where are you? Where do you Where are you from originally?Originally I'm from Connecticut, grew up there. And then did my bachelor's degree at University of Connecticut in nutrition.Nice. And how long have you been at Colorado State?I've been at Colorado State about a year and a half now. So I got about six good months before everything shut down. Still happy to be here. It's a nice place to be locked down in at least.Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The northern part of Colorado. It's it's definitely beautiful up there. So before you read Colorado State, let's see where else you were a postdoctoral fellow, obviously. And then, is there any other stops along the way that really leapt out to you and ended up pushing you into Colorado State to do you know, good nutrition for human?Um, yeah, I would say probably the most important step in my whole academic journey was at Penn State where I did my PhD in food science. That's kind of where all of the research that we'll talk about today was really conceived. It was just kind of a one off idea that my PhD advisor and I had just one day, you know, oh, what if we looked at interactions between gluten and tannins, and then, you know, I kind of went back to my office, first year PhD student really excited. And all of a sudden, it was like all of these ideas just in terms of the chemical interactions and what this means for nutrition just designed this whole project. And in a really rare case of circumstances, everything I had designed in my first year of my PhD ended up being what I eventually did over the course of the next five years. I don't think anybody is ever that lucky. Yeah, and the project turned into what you all were able to read before inviting me here. We will definitely dive deep into that. But I'm really curious. So I've, we have the CV here that shows your academic pursuit. I want to know why Charlene, Dr. Charlene, Dr. Charlene decided to do the study of food science and nutrition. Let's just start from there. And then I get the passion once you've latched on to something, but I'm always curious how people find their way like, like, how you how you got there.Yeah, I think I discovered Food Science a little earlier than the average person. Most people will get into it in college, having followed a path of chemistry or biochemistry, and then realizing they can apply all of these concepts to food. But I actually was in the Future Farmers of America when I was in high school. And I thought that I wanted to be a vet, and then realize that I was not really into like blood or sick animals or anything. And one of my teachers was like, we have this competition. It's called food science. you design a food product, you talk about safety and everything. And I was sure sounds cool. And the first day that I met with that team for this competition, we got a textbook chapter on canning. And I was reading about canning, and I was like, I was really interesting. Like, if you can something it'll last a really long time. Or if it's done incorrectly, it can be so dangerous that it can kill you. Kind of dichotomy there. I was like, food science is crazy. And just from there was like obsessed with it. And, yeah, I was for nutrition, grad school for food science.This kind of reminds me of the whole mycology thing that we were talking about before. Where like you might find a brave food canner and you might find an old food canner but you won't find them in the same person. I'm going to just dabble in some aggressive food canning and see what happens. They don't walk around anymore. We were we have Paul Paul Stamets was talking about that. And then the other mycologists, we've talked to mycologists that actually discuss that they feel the same way where it's like, look, you can have a mushroom that will save you. But if you prepare it wrong, or eat the wrong one, you're gonna die. If you have food canning, you can have food forever. But if you do it wrong, you can die. Well, that is awesome. So reading your article, or reading your paper, which is a review of your thesis, which tells me that you know this essentially better than anybody in the entire world because you did a thesis on something that I have been searching for for a very, very, very long time. I developed Atrantil to help people with bloating and irritable bowel syndrome. And then we started learning I late started learning about these effects of polyphenols came across your article, your review, which is titled gliadin sequestration as a novel therapy for celiac disease, a prospective application for polyphenols. This is the thing that really I've been looking for for a long time, we've known the benefits of polyphenols, but you're the first person that has been able to explain why I'm gluten sensitive. And once I start, once I started taking Atrantil whenever I would eat gluten, I didn't have issues, and I really couldn't explain it. We've had patients that say, when I, you know, when I take these large polyphenolic compounds that are in Atrantil, I can eat wheat. Why is it I didn't know I couldn't actually say from a molecular reason. And then I came across your paper. And this is absolutely fantastic. It's 32 pages of incredible material. And 185 references my goodness, you put some work into this congratulations on putting together what I think is the most comprehension review of polyphenols in the setting of celiac disease. So once again, if anybody listened to this, know somebody that has celiac disease, or has a family member, or has celiac themselves, this is something that really we need to share as a community. We need to get this out there and your work is really pivotal to explain the science, which is so cool. So let's jump into it. Because it's awesome.Yeah, I don't even know where to start. Because you you described multiple different mechanisms of action on why polyphenols begin to work. So what drove you to to put these two associations together? Why celiac disease and why polyphenols?So at the time that we came up with this project, I had recently joined my graduate advisor Ryan Elias at Penn State, I joined his lab, and he was doing a lot of work on wine quality. So as a food chemist, you know, we're looking at oxidation of polyphenols, how that can affect wine astringency, etc. And so I was, you know, showed up to grad school thinking I was going to work on wine. And then we found these papers that were studying protein polyphenol interactions using tannic acid with peanut allergens. And so that was an interesting paper doing a little bit more reading, thinking about that. And then thinking about, you know, still wine. And I came across these papers that were using gluten as a fining agent and red wine. So fining is the interaction between polyphenols and wine and a protein that will actually precipitate those polyphenols and take them out of wine to kind of soften the mouthfeel. And so I saw that and knowing that gluten is this immunostimulatory protein, I was like, why are they doing this? That seems crazy to me, and Is it hurting people and you know, it's not labeled, because it's something that's not technically in the product, because it's falling out as a solid. And that was just sort of the the end of the string on that ball of yarn that we kind of started to unravel. Um, and looking at that in terms of a food processing aid, I thought, what if we looked at this from the perspective of a nutraceutical? So if we know these interactions are happening already. Can we flip this around and put it in the human body? Can these interactions still occur? What is happening to the protein? How does that affect the actual mechanism of the disease? And, you know, we just came up with all of these questions from there, but it really started with gluten as a fining agent in wine.That's incredible. That is a that is a lot to peel back as you're starting your sort of academic career to take this on, and then suddenly go down a rabbit hole and you end up over here with a disease. That is, and thank you. I mean, that is crazy to take on that. You just discussed layers and layers that I imagine you were looking at an article that then led to another one led to another one and then you finally went, oh, this is way bigger than I thought.Yeah, there's 185 references on the paper. It's just like the tip of the iceberg.Well just to reset for everyone to those who suffer from celiac disease, obviously know about gluten and want to avoid gluten, but maybe not everyone understands why gliadin specifically, is what it is, is what we're concerned with with its blog. So why don't you explain a little bit about gliadin itselfto ours. So gluten is a heterogeneous protein made up of two subunits. So we have the gliadin, as well as glutenin. And those two proteins will come together forming inter and intra molecular bonds in order to form this gluten protein kind of as a whole. But it's the gliadin that has these repeat motifs in its amino acid primary sequence. And it's usually a prolene. That's one amino acid away from a glutamine, that's going to get recognized in the human body by an enzyme called tissue transglutaminase, or transglutaminase. Two, and that gets a deamidated. And then that's the area of the protein that's recognized by antigen presenting cells. So it really comes down to the amino acid sequence in the gliadin, versus what's typically seen in glutenin. So step back, what you just described is exactly what happens to 1% of the population because celiac disease is the most prevalent autoimmune situation, or autoimmune disease that's there. And what you just described was the amino acids, the prolene, and the glutamine actually form the gliadin. My hearing that right, so those two forms of gliadin.Right, so they're found within the structure of gliadin. So gliadins really are a class of proteins. There's alpha, beta, omega. And then within that alpha one, alpha two, alpha three, there are so many types of gliadins. But sort of this consistent pattern that we see in those gliadins is a really high percentage of prolene, as well as glutamine.Okay.So, in your article, you did describe something that I was I wanted to clarify on this, you described the prolamin glutamine residues and the sulfurus component a pro amine assisting in the ability to find these disulfide bonds, all of that, is that why gluten makes things spongy, because of these disulfide bonds is used in so many things.Yeah. Yeah. So disulfide bonds are formed within the structure of gluten over the course of hydration, oxidation and mechanical kneading. So that's what you see when you're making like bread or pasta, and that dough sort of starts to really come together. That's a result of the formation of disulfide bonds.Nice.Which is what makes it yeah, which it's that texture that everybody that we're that's which is why when you get gluten free bread, you're like, no. Not the same.Yeah, it kind of forms that balloon structure to leavening.Yeah. So I'm gonna I have actually sent back some some gluten free pasta. Can I have some more disulfide bonds in here?Yeah, they don't have that in a shaker Ken. It's not there.That is that is impressive. So what why why gliadin. Why gliadin because we know that gluten is formed of of these two different proteins. But why gliadin being the more problematic protein in the in the gluten molecule.So gliadin is more problematic, because as I mentioned, that higher frequency of the amino acid residues, the prolene, and the glutamine just found in that particular order prolene, something else, glutamine is what's going to make it more recognized by the body. It's also this high amount of prolene results in almost like an unraveled protein structure. And that is something that's recognized structurally by the body as being a problem, it's more difficult for enzymes to break down gliadin because of all of those prolenes, because of that unraveled structure, and then that unraveled structure allows it to be it allows it to interact with that tissue, transglutaminase enzyme as well.So let me stop you right there. So you said something, and that's kind of what I wanted you to say is that gliadins are resistant to digestive enzymes. So you have this thing that your body can't readily break down. So as a scientist, my patients ask, what's the deal? Why is celiac on the rise? Why is it exponentially in the rise? Why are more people saying that they have gluten intolerance, whether or not comedians will make fun of that like, like, it's like, it's something that's in your head, but I am very gluten intolerant, but I don't have celiac disease. So why do you think we're seeing more of it?There are quite a few ideas as to why we're seeing more celiac disease and I know that one of the prevailing hypotheses is kind of based on exposure on whether people have been exposed to gluten at certain times in their life, it's also associated with an overall increase in autoimmune disorders worldwide. So I think that there's probably a link there for sure.So you talked about this, and I'm jumping ahead, but you did show how gliadin can actually create some paracellular leakage, so, so to speak, or that so I see a lot of my patients that will have celiac disease and then show up with another autoimmune disease. So the question is, do we really is one of the reasons why we're seeing so much autoimmune disease like Crohn's and ulcerative colitis could it be precipitated by an inflammatory process in the gut, beginning in the gut? And I just bring this up, because maybe you're at the tip of the iceberg on possibly one of the causes of why we are developing so many autoimmune diseases. What's your theory on as on how we raise these crops, and how gluten has sort of or the wheat has changed over the years from the amber waves of grain to short, stocky plants?Well, in terms of the molecular profile of the gluten itself, I'm not as familiar with that research as probably some other more agronomy focused individuals are, but in terms of actual food products, so what we end up seeing in bread and pasta, the overall gluten content really hasn't changed over time.Really? Okay. That's actually something that I think I was, I've told my patients wrong. I've told them that we're probably getting more gluten, which is one of the reasons why we can have thatNo but I found it interesting, though, because you did reference the alpha beta and omega different gliadin subunits. And then even from there, there's sub sub units of one, two, three, and four, possibly, and as you said, I don't want to press you on this. But maybe maybe the the expression is just simply different from all of those different units over time, depending upon the mean, GMO, or not GMO or hybrid, or, who knows, it's hard to it's hard to say.Yeah, it's also difficult when considering whether there are differences based on those individual gliadins. Because that prolene x glutamine pattern shows up in all of them. repeatedly. Yeah. And in my, in some of my papers, I've focused on alpha two gliadin as one of these specific proteins. And that one just happens to have many, many overlapping at the topes in terms of recognition and celiac disease, but it's certainly not exclusive to just that one subunit.Can you comment on these different subunits? And in your paper, you discussed the the starting point of causing an inflammatory cascade with interleukin 15? I believe it was 15 Have you? Can you comment on that, and that's in the relationship for my gastroenterology colleagues, to lymphocytes because we always look for intraepithelial lymphocytes. And I think you show the mechanism through IL 15.Right, so in the celiac disease inflammatory cascade, we start with the recognition of gliadin by the CXCR3 receptor on intestinal epithelial cells. And that's one of the prevailing hypotheses in terms of pathogenesis is that the CXCR3 receptor will stimulate the release of zonulin zonulin will then trigger that paracellular leakage that you mentioned earlier. And as the gliadin passes through the laminapropria, then we see this release of IL 15 from the intestinal epithelial cells and that IL 15 is what's going to recruit those intraepithelial lymphocytes. And so that infiltration of those lymphocytes into the intestinal barrier is one of the Hallmark one of the Hallmark traits of celiac disease from the clinical perspective, as I'm sure you're very familiar with Marsh scores. For example,Let's back that up. Because that is a key, everything you just said. But I want my colleagues to understand this because as somebody who is a strong believer in intestinal permeability, aka leaky gut on Google, but intestinal permeability, from talking to my colleagues leading to other things, let's let's walk it back. You discussed how gliadin binds to CXCR3 which is fancy and everything but dumb it down for me really quick gliadin leads to this which leads to zonulin which leads to this so that I can tell my patients and my colleagues can tell their patients. This is this is the process of why I want you to avoid or to avoid gluten to avoid gliadin.So I guess what you would tell patients is basically that their intestinal lining is extremely sensitive to this individual protein and when they take in this protein their body is it's it's mounting a response almost as if there is an invader an immune response to this protein if that is helpful.And you showed it is helpful because zonulin is something that I look for I actually found a lab that can order that so I can look and see, okay, I believe that you do have some intestinal permeability. We know that infection, bacterial overgrowth, and in talks that I've given, I say that high ingestion of gluten does this lead to increased zonulin. I didn't have a mechanism how it did, but now we realize it. You just explained it. So it makes it like every time you dial it down a little further, you're like, no, I believe it more now. So I've been saying that for a long time. Yeah, that is really cool. So yeah, so you, in your science have shown that zonulin leads to intestinal permeability.I was not the person to discover that. But there there is a I believe...You have the opportunity to own it right now. Nobody else has stuck their flag in it.I'm not gonna take credit.You can credit for everything you want. Until somebody else calls me right now and says "that's mine!"Brilliant, man. Yeah, yeah, there there is the mucosal immunology lab at Massachusetts General Hospital, Dr. Alessio Fasano who headed that work. Yeah, I would love to take credit for it, but I think that would follow my career in a negative way.Alessio Fasano basically, I would fly and just listen to him lecture and then leave the whole rest of the, you know, the lecture yet Alessio Fasano is one of my heroes. So yeah, for sure. That's that that's why I thought it was funny. If you claimed it. He seems to have relaxed a little bit over the years, he needs to get back at it. That is awesome. Um, let's talk a little bit about the whole section that you have on treatments, because you did a great job of summarizing different treatments that pharmaceutical companies different people have tried to do. I'm very keen to well, anyways, I'll let you get into it, because he did a great job of reviewing all of it and to show what has promise what doesn't what's there, what has failed in clinical trials, before we even begin to discuss the polyphenols because then the rest of your paper is about, I believe that this is probably the best mechanism. So do you remember some of the stuff that you have in the paper about a few of the different mechanisms that different pharmaceutical companies are looking at?Yeah, for sure. So they can kind of be broken down into two major classes. So I think of them really as patient focused versus protein focused and the patient focused therapies are going to be kind of your immunomodulators things that are affecting the individuals the individual's immune response, that inflammatory cascade through for example, Nexvax was a vaccine that was I think it got to phase two trials and then eventually was, was shut down. We have larazotide acetate, which is a zonulin inhibitor. That one is in I believe, phase three trials now, which is pretty exciting. And those that target the immune response. I also I have to mention my favorite, which is the hook worms. So a hookworm infection can actually mediate immune responses, then take down what would be this overactive immune response and celiac disease, immunosuppressive effects of hookworms have been.So we have looked at trying to use worms for Crohn's disease for the same for the same reason. How does it do it in celiac disease?So in celiac disease, it just dampens the immune response. And what they've shown is that in vivo, individuals who've been infected with hookworms have a decreased IL 15 release upon stimulation with gluten.Interesting. That's the thing where we always say that in third world countries, you don't see autoimmune diseases. A lot of us argued that as to why. Yeah, so that's probably my favorite that I haven't done. But then we have the the protein focused therapies, which I think the most notable are the enzymes. So if you're orally taking in an enzyme that will help break down gluten further, that's one that's been shown to be effective, also some antibodies that will bind to gluten and prevent its digestion. So it's kind of a similar mechanism to what I talked about with polyphenols and those protein focused are basically going to either break down or further sequester. gluten from digestion. .Yeah, you got into a little bit about how these proteins bind and how there's different mechanisms with polyphenols really quick. The nexvax, was that, was that ImmusanT? Do you know the company that was doing it?Yes,So years ago. So Bob Anderson is a guess is a PhD gastroenterologist out of Australia. I had hooked up with him when we were just beginning the whole concept of using polyphenols to treat IBS. And, and it shows how difficult it is to really take a concept. And take it all the way through to something you can get through the FDA because it was like 8, 10 years ago that he was working on this, and it started a company. And then when you said that I was reading your paper, I was like, oh, it didn't work. That guy put his life. I mean, put his heart and soul into it. And so shout out to Dr. Anderson, who really kind of, I think, hopefully his next version will be able to do this. So we can have a vaccine. Everybody's talking vaccines right now. So we'd love to have the old vaccine.It's a hot topic.That's awesome. You wanna ask anything about that? About all of that? Yeah. Man, you must be tired. Thanks, Ken. That was awesome. No, I find it incredibly interesting the way that you've had this pathway to to figure out what proteins are the biggest threat. I was surprised from what you had written specifically about hookworms. And I was just thinking about the, you know, those who who wouldn't have an inflammatory issue because they weren't wearing shoes. Isn't that how you transmit hookworms is through the soles of the feet?I do not remember my parasitology right now, do you know Charlene?I'm not sure I'm pretty sure they were orally administered, at least in the studies.I'm sure in the study they were. My version was the was the old version. We're gonna see if hookworms work here, everybody take your shoes off. That vat right there has placebos or that vat has hookworms just jump around and see what happens.So remember before we recorded and started this episode, we told you we'd leave all of the all of the mistakes in that joke didn't work. And that's fine. It happens occasionally.But I think it's really important because leading up to that you're discussing all these different ways that pharmaceutical companies are trying to do it and people are trying to figure it out use it's really not always like the hookworms oral ingestion, not soles of the feet. But I do think hookworms happen because you get exposed to it. So then this is when you propose why polyphenols. So now this is the peeling back where now you're going to discuss polyphenols. So looking at all those different mechanisms, why do you 30,000 foot view, why do you think polyphenols will be beneficial, and then we'll dial down to the different steps, you've got some great charts and steps A through F on how it works and some incredible science on everything. So why did you think the polyphenols would do this in the very, very, very beginning?So in the very beginning, it seemed like there was probably a pretty good chance that polyphenols would be able to be beneficial because we knew from those studies with using gluten as a fining agent in wine, that there would be an interaction between gluten and these polyphenols. And then we have sort of this added benefit of knowing that polyphenols are generally safe, you know, people consume them every day, as long as they're eating fruits and vegetables. And we know that they have these other beneficial effects for so for example, they have these antioxidant, anti inflammatory effects that are occurring when these compounds are not interacting with protein. So we know that they're already generally a pretty good thing. And protein polyphenol interactions are just kind of this natural phenomenon that we see all the time in many different contexts. So just starting out it seemed like it was probably going to be a slam dunk.That's awesome. All right now, oh, where was it page for this page 19. That little picture sums ups a lot of important things that little picture right there sums up about 15 or 12 pages of material. So this is the your graph here shows stepwise why you can demonstrate how a and then we'll get into this after you go through this but a large polyphenolic compound with more branches can do some of these things. So this is kind of the steps A through F on how these polyphenols may help us deal with gliadin. So on your first part right here, can you please explain the physical sequestration of native gliadins.So with native glutens that's going to be your gliadin before it interacts with any of your digestive enzymes in your gastrointestinal tract. So that would be the form of gliadin, that's going to show up in, for example, a slice of bread. So these are going to be higher molecular weight proteins that are fully intact and haven't been digested at all. And these are able to interact with polyphenols through a variety of molecular mechanisms. So we see a lot of hydrogen bonding, we see ring stacking, one of my earlier papers really gets into the weeds in terms of the types of bonds that are formed from but we see these interactions and the formation of this precipitate and solution. So if you were to combine a solution of polyphenols in a solution of gliadin, you would see it actually form a solid and start to fall out of solution, which is a pretty good indicator that there is a physical interaction going on. So it's kind of the first step. And we see that also with gliadins that have been digested by pepsin and triptan which are two digestive enzymes.What what polyphenol did you start with specifically, what type of polyphenols?So I specifically first was interested in Epigallocatechin Gallate, which is the primary catechin found in green tea. I was interested in egcg because because of its prevalence in green tea, and we know that it has all of these other beneficial effects, it was being studied, in terms of its anti obesity and anti inflammatory effects by another group at Penn State at the time. So it seems like the one to target and some of my later more applied work used green tea extract. So that would also combine other types of catechins and smaller phenolic compounds.Nice. We're gonna get into that and a little bit here. All right, then in your beautiful little graph here. Step two hydrolyzed gliadins.Yeah, so what I just mentioned hydrolyzed gliadins, that would be those which have encountered pepsin and triptan. So breaking those proteins down into smaller digested fragments. And we see the same sort of precipitation forming the same kind of haze formation when we combine those in solution.So basically, we're talking about a larger gliadin molecule versus a smaller one. Regardless, the polyphenols are going to suck up, grab it, and sink down to the bottom. What was that called in wine again? Would you consider this fining also, even though it's not in the wine industry? Can we use theIt is the same molecular mechanism. But it's, I mean, fining I think, refers more to the processing. But we do see protein and polyphenol interactions similar to this in a lot of different areas of science. So again, in wine, because it's sort of the root of this project, we see interactions between small prolene rich proteins and polyphenols in astringency. So like if you take a sip of red wine and you kind of get that drying sensation on your tongue, that's actually the polyphenols from the wine, precipitating your salivary proteins, which are also rich in prolene.So that was I always wondered that also. So okay, so quick question, which is interesting. So if it well, I'll save it for later because I want to go through the mechanisms first. So that's two mechanisms, but I got so many questions for you related to all this stuff. Then there's the aspect of digestive enzyme inhibition.Right. So um, this is actually I think one of the one of the really interesting parts of this study is polyphenols have been noted for anti nutritional properties and the prevention of protein digestion, and a few different studies in the past, showing that individuals have a high intake of polyphenols, they actually can sometimes have issues with protein absorption. So one of the reasons is the direct interactions with protein like we just mentioned, between the polyphenols and gliadin. But another is the fact that these polyphenols can directly inhibit the action of digestive enzymes through either binding directly to the enzyme and kind of changing the shape of the enzyme preventing it from being able to preventing it from being able to hydrolyze its substrate or binding in that same binding pocket for the enzyme and preventing the substrate from even getting in.So that's fascinating. So there's there is a little bit of a debatable thing because when working with scientists in the cattle industry, there's actually some data to show that when you give sheep and cattle large like tannins, they actually have improved nutrition and but they're ruminants and then people try extrapolates the ruminants over here. And then we've worked with some scientists that have actually said, well, the binding, if it binds to the protein, not necessarily the protease or the lipase, or whatever pancreatic enzyme it is, that when it gets since the actual large tannin does not get absorbed, it stays intraluminal, the body can digest the protein off, and then the tannin keeps going. So there's it's interesting because I think that there is some debate a little bit where like you have people like Anna Hagerman that are talking about how it can be an anti nutritional thing. And then you've got these other people in sports nutrition saying no, actually, you can improve the overall nutritional value of foods by taking it with a polyphenol. And so it's it's a fascinating area. And I think that it's kind of a moving target we have seen in clinic in my clinical practice, and in the studies that we've done, we've seen beneficial results using polyphenols. And I think that's why it can do some different things like work as a fasting mimetic molecule and things like that. That's That's really interesting. I did not know that it has the potential to bind to the digestive enzyme. I had not come across that before wild. So...Yeah, because enzymes are proteins. The next one, improved barrier integrity and transport and decreased transport. So um, there have been some studies that have shown in individuals with leaky gut or intestinal permeability, that polyphenols are able to just directly affect intestinal barrier function. And I showed in one of my studies actually, in our untreated controls that we saw an increase in barrier integrity, when we just use green tea extract, compared to the control, so in the absence of gliadin, we still saw an increase in transepithelial electrical resistance,Improved leaky gut, do you have a mechanism for that when it's not related to gliadin?Um, so in terms of improving it, when it's not related to gliadin, it's most likely just related to the inflammatory cascade. And, you know, the gut is kind of just always in flux, and always producing, you know, interleukin 6 810, just everything and kind of mediating that response, I think, can expose potentially some underlying permeability, that it can then reverse.I love that you say that because we talk a lot about other things that create intestinal inflammation like high fructose corn syrup, polyunsaturated fatty acids, like soybean oil, and things like that, that have been shown to create an inflammatory response. So you said something really interesting. We're talking about gliadin here, but you this also shows that it can help with the leaky gut, intestinal permeability, whatever you want to say, when it doesn't even it isn't related to gliadin it can actually do that related to the inflammatory cascade, and we talk a lot about inflammation on the show all the time. inflammation is good when you need it. Bad when it stays there all the time. And unfortunately, our diets I think that we tend to keep it inflamed, if you eat the typical, you know, American diet, the sad diet, you're gonna you're gonna have an inflamed gut, you need to protect it. Definitely. And you haven't gotten to zonulin yet have you?We talked about Zonulin a little earlier.No, like during during the cascade that you had written down with your hand. The reason why I say that is because you had long before in conjunction with the leaky gut protection. You had mentioned that zonulin contributes to leaky gut. And since we had mentioned it earlier, and he hadn't put it on there, they're probably controlling the, or keeping the decrease of zonulin, after having enough polyphenols would also lend toWell, now that he brings it up. So you wrote that gliadin binds to myd88, which ultimately releases the zonulin. So does it prevent the binding to the myd88? Is that how it prevents zonulin from from being released?We don't know the precise mechanism in terms of what interactions it's actually preventing. So where it's really targeting that inflammatory cascade, it would make sense based on our data, that the polyphenols are sequestering the gliadin and preventing it from binding to anything else. But in terms of studies where we actually pinpoint that mechanism, those haven't been done yet. So I think it would be really interesting to do some of this either in vitro or ex vivo if we were able to get tissue cultures to see how that affects really the zonulin release because that's kind of the the linchpin in that mechanism.So that's fascinating. So I've had you know, I've always I treat a lot of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth SIBO patients and I will check them and they will have increased levels of zonulin. I assume it's related to the bacterial inflammatory cascade and we treat it and it goes down. Treat them with Atrantil and it goes down. And I'm assuming it's I got rid of the bacteria, but you just brought up something interesting. There may be something more nuanced going on.Or SIBO I mean a lot of a lot of different options.Yeah. So that's, I think that's, that's another angle. It just shows how much I think there's so much cool chemistry, cool physiology, cool applications of this, that you're that you're really tapping into. And you're, you're bringing up your own questions, you're gonna have a long career chasing your own thoughts. So. And then, we already talked about the anti inflammatory activity, NF Kappa beta, and things like that, that you basically discussed, which is the overall decreasing of the inflammatory response. And then the final one that you discuss in this in this in this figure is the transglutaminase downregulation. Can you explain that that one I was struggling with.Yeah, so that actually is from a really recent paper by a group out of Louisiana State University. And they found that when treating intestinal cells in vitro with Coco polyphenols, they saw a down reveal a down regulation of tissue transglutaminase. So when we have this exposure of gliadin, to our intestinal cells, transglutaminase is released kind of as a response to epithelial damage. It's an enzyme that is found in everyone's body that's associated with wound healing. So when the intestinal when your intestinal barrier is kind of infiltrated by intestinal epithelial lymphocyte, intestinal lymphocytes, sorry. When you see that infiltration, and that damage that's occurring, that's when transglutaminase is released. And what they found in vitro was that we're not seeing that release of transglutaminase when polyphenols were added to that culture.That's super cool. You probably don't have a direct MLA on that yet, but it's definitely been noticed as a as a decrease. Is that what you're saying?Right, yeah.Okay. Now that that's very, very cool, though. I don't think I'd ever heard that before at all.No, that is really cool. And the mechanisms that how you're going to all of this is just absolutely incredible. Alright, so let's dumb it down real quick, for me. I need my prolene and my saliva. And now I understand why, so can you tell me how fat...so like if I eat a ribeye and then take a big, bold Cabernet? Why the Cabernet doesn't have that astringency while I'm eating a fat I've always wondered...Yeah, so fat will coat your tongue. And it's basically creating a layer between the proteins that are in your saliva and inhibiting that binding.So it's, it's making the tannin just slide over the prolene is what you're saying?Um, yeah, you could explain it that way.Well, that's, I'm gonna explain it that way to myself. I'm not gonna get more complex. I'm just gonna go you're just doing this to let it slide over. I liked the way she said, "you could do that."Alright, so in theory, we have done I mean, it's, it's not fining because it's the but but you need to come up with your own term when when polyphenols bind gliadin and sink to the bottom. So shining, Charlene fining and it's Charlening. So when you're Charlening gliadin down in there and then if I take so if I put a bunch of gliadin in this cup and then I put a bunch of polyphenols in there and it it Charlenings it down Charlenings, can I turn that into a verb? Yeah, you did. You just did!So when I'm Charlening the gliadin to the bottom of the cup, and I mix it up and I swallow it. This is the other concept I'm trying to think of does the body then it goes down. I don't feel the astringency because it's already bound to the gliadin or whatever. It's I'm not getting that but will the body then break off? Will the enzyme since the polyphenol is tied to the gliadin? Will my body break off that Charlening molecule? In other words, will it can it still digest the protein that is attached to it?So in terms of whether it can still digest the protein, our data says that it will not so doing an in vitro digestion of polyphenols and gliadins that have been sort of pre combined before all of the pH fluctuations before the introduction of pepsin and trypsin. We've found that that complexation will prevent The digestion of gliadins of native gliadins. And it will prevent the formation of the smaller molecular weight fragments that stimulate the inflammatory response.So since it binds so strongly to the prolene, glutamine aspect, if you have a protein that doesn't have that, do you think that there will be less affinity and it will come apart?Well, that's definitely something we're interested in, in looking at. Now that I have some grad students working on this project, we're really interested in seeing how kind of the matrix effect of everything else in the gut can affect these interactions and affect the stability. So one thing that I think suggests that we'll still see some success with this nutraceutical treatment is the fact that polyphenols generally have a greater affinity to bind to proteins that have a high frequency of prolene. And the high frequency of prolene that we see in gliadin is is fairly unique. We don't really see that much in other food proteins. So it's something we'll need to investigate, but there's definitely a chanceWhat are some other high prolene foods that we typically eat?High prolene foods that we eat? I think you got me on that one. But in terms of the kind of major food proteins that we study, in the lab, so I remember doing some sort of preliminary work with like beta lactam globulin and some casein when I was in grad school. And just to kind of look at precipitation, those definitely have less prolene than than gliadins do. In terms of others that have high amounts of prolene, I'd have to look into that. I remember looking once as to why everybody did why there's a lot of soy issues. And I did see that soy has high prolene compared to other proteins. And so I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons why a lot of people have issues with soy also. I don't know,I that's definitely something that's that's worth looking into. Because it is the high prolene content that kind of gives gliadin that unraveled structure that makes it difficult to break down enzymatically. That's definitely something to look at, but not something I have I've heard or read.You've been slacking CharlenePoor CVs only 17 pages long.You know, you sit there you, you come up with the term Charlening, and you're just resting on your laurels making money off that Trademark. All right. Now my favorite, favorite part of this whole thing you said in your article studies into mechanisms have shown phenolics with large branching structures with greater potential interaction have greater affinity for interacting with gliadin. So that's something that a lot of people don't really understand is that these polyphenolic compounds come in varying shapes and sizes. I this is I'm setting this up, because the scientists that we've been working with in South America, the quebracho Colorado is one of the largest stable polyphenols that we the original research I was doing is because it's both acid stable, and its basic stable, which means it can stay intraluminal in the in the intestine, and then the scientists we've worked with one of them in an in vitro digestion showed that when this becomes fermented, in other words, with our microbiome, that it actually she did a gas chromatograph and showed all these different molecules that came off, one of them being egcg, and other one being quercetin and another one being rutin. And you're like, holy cow, wait a minute, these large building blocks actually have all these smaller phenolic molecules in it. And all the studies have been done on smaller phenolic molecules, because the prior studies were done on that. And you're going to grab a molecule that's already been done. I forgot his name but the but the gastroenterologist that uses egcg to look at ulcerative colitis, and then that guy, because somebody else did it, and that's the proof of concept. What is really interesting is this whole science is using these large if I gave you the largest, most hydroxyl bond, you know, molecule, would this be the thing that would work that I guess your paragraph implies that,Yeah, so it's actually really interesting. And some studies that I've completed that we're kind of working on getting out there at the moment, sort of take this idea of size versus actual shape. So when we talk about polyphenols and their and their structure, we're taking into consideration the molecular weight, but also the branching like you mentioned. So if we compare molecules like Thea Flavin, which is found in black tea versus egcg, which is found in green tea, they have relatively comparable molecular weights. But egcg has this hydroxylation that almost makes it from like arms. And it has this more flexible bendable structure.You lost me though. Would you show that one more time? What does it do?Yeah. So it kind of has these arms that are almost able to wrap around a protein whereas Thea Flavin has, if you look at the structure of this Benzotropolone ring, which is just as large, bulky, sort of ring structure, and it doesn't have sort of that same flexibility as egcg has. So even though Theo Flavin actually is a little bit larger, egcg is able to bind better. So it really comes down to the structure dictating the function of the molecule, which kind of brings it to my lab and my fascination with all of this the food structure and function lab. Yeah, figuring out how structure can affect the function of these molecules with...Oh! That's why you called it that. Food structure and function. Your website. I was like, that's an odd name for website, foodstructureandfunctionlab.com. And now it makes sense, not just the food, or the structure, but it happens to be that the two combine to make a function.Those are really interrelated and biochemistry andFood structure function lab. Sorry, I want to make sure everybody hears that food structure, function lab.comStructure and function lab. Okay just say it one more time.Foodstructureandfunctionlab.comThere we go. Sorry to interrupt. I just want to make sure that peopleNo you're fine. But yeah, conceptually, that is something that I just think is so fascinating how the structure can really affect the function in terms of health. SoSo as a, butt doctor, the thing that's going to blow, take that all up to another level is how the microbiome is involved with us, then we're, like, everything you're doing is fascinating. It's so cool. And then you start fermenting it and seeing what happens, and some pretty incredible magic happens. SoRight, yeah, so fermentation, but then some of the work that I did, during my postdoc at Rutgers University, we were looking at alternative mechanisms for polyphenols to affect the gut microbiome, because we saw with, um, I believe it was cranberry polyphenols, as well as Grapeseed, extract someone before me, and found that supplementation of those polyphenols to an individual with diabetes resulted in the increase of this growth of akkermansia ophelia. And so we're trying to look at how this can why this happens, you know, like, what is the mechanism? And so one of the things that we really got interested in was the potential for polyphenols to act as radical scavengers in the lumen. So whether they're being broken down by the gut bacteria, whether they're scavenging radicals, whether they have an antibiotic capacity, I mean, there are so many options, and it's so fascinating. So, yeah, sorry to go off on that tangent,TThat's pretty much the world I live in because I see my goal. What we have seen through fecal studies, actually, is that when my patients take a either a diet large and polyphenols, or they supplement with Atrantil we have seen an increase in microbial diversity. And then once you have an increase in microbial diversity, you start having different species of bacteria which can do these beneficial things like the anti diabetic, anti obesogenic and then you have the anti. And then people are now looking into that. And that's sort of this whole new field of science called the postbiotics. It's like, what does the so we're almost describing that these become prebiotic, like, we're just something that is not digested and then your own microbiome, but what we're seeing is, is that it's not a one to one, you have to have a diverse microbiome to get the full benefit of these polyphenols. So you can have the structure and function but you also have to have the ability to produce these postbiotics, like have you ever heard of a molecule called urolithin urolithin a urolithin B, you know, things like that. Lactic acid gets, you know, kicks off and we know that that helps, you know with apoptosis and Mitophagy and there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff to uncover. This is a lot of really cool things. What do you think? Alright, so just sum this up. Sorry about that. We covered so much material. So to sum up your whole paper here and in just a couple sentences, because there's a lot that we just talked about, and I want to hear it in your words. How would you describe what you just what we just talked about in just a couple sentences?So overall, we are focusing on developing a nutraceutical approach to treating celiac disease via the natural phenomenon of protein polyphenol interactions, and keeping gliadin from being digested and being recognized by the immune system.She did it in one sentence Ken. Yeah she did. Wow. All right, what's your lab gonna do next? What are you guys working on?We are continuing to pursue this project. It was kind of on a hiatus as I did my postdoc working on a different project. But now that I have my own lab, but I have a couple of graduate students who are really targeting that sort of structure and function angle, we're looking at extracts from different polyphenol rich foods for their ability to basically elicit the same effects that I observed with green tea extract. And we're also trying to kind of target those downstream mechanisms that I discussed in the paper. So what is the impact of polyphenol supplementation on for example, the activity of tissue transglutaminase? What is the impact on the recognition of these proteins by antigen presenting cells? I'm kind of trying to go downstream and sort of look at this. The potential of polyphenols from really every angle of celiac disease.That's awesome. You said you have two graduate students working for you right nowI actually have four right now. Yeah, I have a few that are working. I have two that are working on the celiac disease project. And then two more that are working on another project based on protein polyphenol interactions. We're looking at using novel plant proteins as delivery systems of anthocyanins. Oh, wow, that's awesome. Can you do me a huge favor and subtle debate between me and Eric? Can you just take two of those and have one of your graduate students swallow hookworms have the other one just walk around on hookworms to seeWe haven't even had a hiatus to have this debate.I have a student who an undergrad who really wants to work in my lab, so I'll pitch that project to him.Poor undergrad doing anything. to get into graduate. Hookworm internship. Nice. Well, Dr. Charlene Van Buitin. Thank you so much PhD as Assistant Professor of food science and Human Nutrition at Colorado State University. I can't thank you enough for coming. Oh, yeah. Without I want to repeat your your website foodstructureandfunctionlab.com correct? Everything will be listed in show notes will have links to your study as well as your own personal website and Ken, any closing remarks?Your social media hashtag, there's no way you're as smart as I am. Do you have any social media or anything? Do you want to get out there? I'm on Twitter, cbvanbuitin. If anyone has questions or is interested, I don't share that much science on there. Mostly insight to working in academia. But yeah, that's that's really all I'm on.So if you want hard hitting political opinions. Go to her Twitter account. Not at all. Thank you so much. Don't go anywhere once we wrap up the show. But gut check project fans, that is going to be episode number 52. Be sure and check show notes. So you can connect with Dr. Van Buiten. And, again, if you have anyone in your life or yourself suffer from celiac disease, we think that this information could be of just huge, great consequences for you and your family. 100% and this is why we do this this is we get an opportunity to meet brilliant people like you, thank you for taking the time to do this. And hopefully this will this will get somebody to call you lab. Hopefully we'll be able to do some sort of collab, I would love to collaborate with your lab. We can we'll talk more about that. But maybe another scientist goes, Oh, this is a little piece I was looking for. This is how we help each other as a community. I'm a clinician, you're a bench researcher. I'm going to apply whatever you tell me and see if it works and just thank you for doing everything that you do.Thanks. Thanks so much for having me.Absolutely. That's episode number 52. We'll see y'all next time. Like and share. See you next time. Bye bye.

This one is for all of you aspiring nonprofit founders. In this episode, we serve up a hefty dose of reality about what it takes to found and run a successful nonprofit organization. News flash: running a nonprofit is actually running a small business. We speak with new founder, Kenneth Brown, about everything he's learned in the first year of his nonprofit and Andrea Ortega who helps founders establish 501c3s. We chat about how much time is spent on fundraising, how to deal with rejection and the reality of funding (spoiler alert: grant money will not fall out of the sky into your lap). This is an important one if you're thinking about starting up a nonprofit of your own. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/nonprofitlowdown/support

Eric Rieger  0:00  Hello gut check project fans and KB MD Hill family. How are you doing today? This is your host, Eric Rieger, soon to be joined by my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. I'll be feeling great today. This is episode number 50 halfway to 100 What does that mean? I don't know. But I can tell you what we've got an awesome show. Our guest today is the author of healing CBOE. Shavasana. That's right, the same one who founded CBOE SOS community online. shavon, has written an incredible book. And I wish that we had had our hands on just essentially a publication like this to share with our patients years ago, so that they know that they're not alone. shavon has written this book, and you'll hear a lot about it here in the episode, that essentially, if you're new to suffering from SIBO, or you've got a a family member that just got unsolvable gi issues, and they they think it is SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. This book is for them. It's not overly medical. It's actually written from the patient's perspective. Why? Because she avans that patient, she dealt with struggling to find her solutions for CBOE 40 years. She can tell you how she thinks that she developed it, what stressors caused it, who she talked to how she failed. And then ultimately, what she began to learn by connecting the dots and talking to a bunch of different professionals. And then tell you a little bit about not only how to heal from CBOE and how to maintain that status, and most of all, how to improve your quality of life. Because it's all about healthspan it's not just about lifespan, and health span is critically important if you're gonna live long, live long and healthy. So let's get to it. Our sponsors today are of course all trying to go to love my tummy, calm, love mydomain.com slash KB MD guess what is in Shawn's book. I'll try until That's right, is right. She suffers from CBOE and she helps direct several people who deal with CBOE and she openly recommends artron to what do you know, polyphenols go to love my tiny.com slash KB MD. Get your own polyphenols today are trying to gigantic proanthocyanidin polyphenols in there. That's right. So love my tummy.com forward slash KB MD and of course, unrefined bakery, get fantastic food and if you have a specialty diet, it's keto paleo, gluten free or otherwise, and you want some of the foods that you felt like you had to avoid. Go to unrefined bakery.com use code, gut check and save 20% off of your entire first order. That's unrefined bakery.com Last but not least, get your very own signature products from Dr. Keith Brown. It KB Md health.com. That's KB MD health calm, especially the CBD. And here pretty soon to be a new product rolling out so definitely check out KB Md health.com. See what we have to offer arm our year for 2020 one's going to change quite a bit as we grow the community and kind of have some really awesome revelations in terms of health and discovery. So check us out KB Md health.com. Check out the store, use code GCP and save 20% off of any order any day all the time. Okay, let's get to it. Meet shivan Sarna, She's the author of healing cebo, founder of Siebel SOS. She's a delight. I think you're gonna love episode number 50.Hello, project fans. Family, I hope you're having a great day. I'm Eric here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And again, for our 50th show. We've got a we've got a guest we've known for a long timeKen Brown  4:10  well, so this is awesome. We've waited for this. And it just so happens that it coincided perfectly. That one of our favorite people, one of the people that is so knowledgeable about something that we are passionate about happens to have a brand new book, and she waited to release it till our 50th episodeEric Rieger  4:31  that was very nice of her. What's up chevonneUnknown Speaker  4:34  Hey, anything for you guys. Thanks for having me. And I'm very thrilled and honored 50th episode and my new book that I've been working on for what feels like 50 years.Eric Rieger  4:45  Heck yeah. What I mean the and you're you're so much bigger than than just that book. I mean, you started CBOE SLS. You mean you're literally the founder. You've been working with Dr. Allison c Becker for quite some time. I'm going to forget something in here. Oh, and she has a cat named Belle.Ken Brown  4:59  She Tennant Bell, I would actually I would venture to say that shavon because of your passion, because now that I understand your reasoning, why you're passionate about it, because the book is phenomenal. I loved it. It was it's a, it's a really easy read, it's really awesome. I'm gonna recommend it to all of my patients, because not only did you really expose yourself on a very personal level, so that you can show how, and all my patients are not alone. I mean, this is like what you actually explained in the beginning is exactly what my patients say. But then you got into the science and you interviewed so many of the world thought leaders on this, and then ultimately, you ended it with Look, I'm not just going to tell you about this, I'm going to tell you how to eat. And the last half of the book is a really cool recipe book about how to do it in the one thing, which is you're doing something unique. It's how to heal your Siebel in 21 days, and I'm covering your name their Shavasana beautiful Shavasana one of our favorite people and I'm gonna say that you are the voice of Zeebo. There's lots of scientists out there, Allison cvac, or Mark Pim and tell Roussel all these people that you've interviewed, awesome, we know them, well, we love them. They're great people. But you have a very unique history in that you have the ability to write, produce, and do these different things. So we need people like you to be the voice of this. And that's what you really are becoming with this book. Congratulations on the book.Unknown Speaker  6:34  Thank you so much. It's been a dream of mine, my best friend told me while I was going through all of these treatments and discoveries, you know, you really need to write a book and I would like bring my notebooks into the doctor's offices and appointments and they'd look at me go, you know, you really need to write a book. I really got to know. And I, I, you know, writing a book is not easy. This little baby like looks like a one and done. Oh my gosh, it was very laboris but I am a TV person. So I did the CBOE SLS summit one, the CBOE SLS summit to the IBS and CBOE SLS summit, the microbiome rescue summit. And now it'll be my mother had lymphoma back in the 90s. No one knew anything about anything it felt like and I'm just working on the lymphatic rescue summit. So I really took everything from those digestive summits and put it into this book. And I have interviewed hundreds of people about the topic, including you. And I wanted to give everybody a book that was inexpensive, because 20 bucks for all this is crazy good. And sometimes Amazon has already put it on sale for 18 bucks, which is also crazy, probably won't stay that way for long. But I'm thrilled. And I, you know, I wanted to get everybody a book that I wish I had had, because I was doing like Dr. Google and you know, staring at the incredible website, cebo info.com, which is Dr. C. Becker's website. But I needed everybody to know that they weren't alone. And if I could share a couple of stories and some recipes, and how to get through the day more easily plus the science. Then as I was talking to God and the universe and the angels begging for help. I was like, Look, if I have insurance, I have a brain. I have a great computer, I have a little bit of time on my hands, because for the first time my husband was studying become a CPA. And so I actually had some free time while he was studying. And I was like, Look, if I'm having a hard time figuring this out. I know other people have to be. So I told the universe, I was going to help them as I got helped. And here it is.Eric Rieger  8:44  You know, I think all of that is awesome. And I don't want to steal any Thunder from Ken as he goes over the various aspects is he's he's gonna, I'm sure pull some quotes and stuff from the book. But the thing that I liked is that and C Becker says it from the foreword is it's written so that anybody who is new to this game can pick up this book and feel like they're learning the what's happening to me, what's kind of the science behind it, and let's give you some how on how you can begin to work your way out. It's a it's an awesome manual. And honestly, it's a tribute back to when we very, very first teamed up with one of those CBOE summits that you did, and it's been great for us and that connection for altran to to the CBOE community has, it was really was a launching point for our product as well.Ken Brown  9:30  Well, what I love about this is that I can I can hand this book to people that have come up to me, because when we do the CBOE when I've done the CBOE summits with you, you have such knowledgeable people that join this and the questions are in depth and they're there. And that's not what I'm seeing in clinic. What I'm seeing is your forward. Yeah, you said my story. Yeah. And that's what I see. I see the people that come in and they go I went to this doctor, that doctor said I do want to open with a quote, because this is basically how your book opens. And if anybody relates to this, I need you to go by healing CBOE by Shavasana. Like right now, because this will grab you, and this is your writing style. This is beautiful. This is what makes it really cool. You make it personal, and you make it sciency. But here it is. I was in the bathroom sweating. When I finally got out of there, the waiter looked worried. And my poor boss, a polite man in his 40s asked me if I was alright, I mumbled body functions and shrug my shoulders. I thought that was the funniest opening line, you basically described yourself in the toilet opening line. That's awesome. That's so vulnerable. And so cool.Unknown Speaker  10:51  You know, I'll never forget that moment. And I in touch through Facebook with that boss who's no longer my boss, but and I can't wait for him to read that. I don't even know that. You're in line. He's like, let me just get the book.Ken Brown  11:10  You're the polite man in your 40s.Unknown Speaker  11:14  It turns out he wasn't in his 40s he was in his 30s. But I didn't realize that.Eric Rieger  11:22  Better. Hey, I don't know if you know this or not. I don't know if you have an audio version of your book out. But actually, Ken was just only doing that because he wants to be.Ken Brown  11:30  I did not know. Yeah. So I was sort of auditioning for the audio version. Do you happen to have an audio version yet for your book?Unknown Speaker  11:39  I actually do. I didn't realize you were in the market. But I do. She is an amazing actor. award winning. And she's actually done the audio books for some of the most famous and influential people on the planet. And I didn't realize that when they were like, what about this person's voice? I was like, that sounds amazing.Ken Brown  12:01  I'm just gonna go back toUnknown Speaker  12:03  song. Yeah, right. Anyway,Ken Brown  12:06  doctor and do my thing. I will try an audio book person anymore. But that's awesome. So you already have an audio version of this. That's incredible.Unknown Speaker  12:14  And Kindle? Yep. It's It's really good. Actually, when they told me they were gonna do an audiobook because I was I am so new to the book game. I was like, really? And they're like, Yeah, of course. I'm like, Okay. I mean, it was it was really exciting. This has been an exciting process. For me, it's something I've always dreamed of writing that book. And then I never thought I'd be writing it about this. But I am. I'm very proud of it. And the fact that you like that line makes me feel really safe and good, because I was, you know, this is like, really vulnerable stuff.Ken Brown  12:49  Well, I think it's the reason why I really like it, honestly, chevonne is it's number one, it's, it's great reading, because it hooks you immediately. But that is actually the conversations that I have with my family. And it's a very real thing. And people hold that in until they find a doctor that they can communicate with. And I hear that and I just say, hey, you're not alone. And now I can sit there and say, not only you're not alone, but it's actually people have written books that have experienced similar things. I talked to patients that turned down jobs because the commute is too long. I talked to people that, you know, they they they won't eat for two days because they have to go on a trip and so on and so on. And you've been there and you basically described that. I think that what you have done and I you know, I mentioned this in the beginning that you have become the voice of CBOE, you know, teaming up with people like Dr. C. Becker, who we all respect a ton and you've done these summits in his Facebook Lives. What you've done is that you have made CBOE front and center. And I'm gonna challenge you that I think that this is just the beginning because so few people really know what this is. But you may have to continue to do this to keep it front and center. Oh, so that people areUnknown Speaker  14:04  like, in a way, it's we've had over 2 million views of the summit's, which is just like scratching the surface. So thank you for that challenge. Challenge accepted. I'm not giving up I am doing a lymphatic summit and I'm doing a biological dental dental summit because I think those are two things that are not talked enough about but my heart is always going to be here with CBOE because I have a big heart. I can talk about other things too, but the CBOE is So, look, from the age of five, I've had it so yeah, I just figured it out. That's been a whole lifetime of obnoxious feeling. So I absolutely am going to continue I was just doing I just did six radio shows yesterday. NPR in Utah, Kentucky, Hudson Valley in New York. It was so cool. And I'm not I'm not stopping I'm not gonna be like, oh, launch now. It's all over. I'm just not gonna Yeah, if it doesn't it, does it. No, no, this is going to be like book launch every single day. I am totally totally thrilled to have it all here. And and also like those summits ranged anywhere from 59 to 200 bucks. Here's 20 bucks people on here.Eric Rieger  15:11  And yeah, like I said earlier, it's just so easy to read. And I think that sometimes people get a little turned off when they only read things that are written medically and didactically. Like it's, it's about someone it's not from someone who's had that journey. And your book is definitely from someone who's had that journey. I mean, do you want do you want to learn the pathway to, you know, to happiness from someone who's done it or someone who's read about it said, I think it's that way? Well, yours is definitely one of someone who has suffered, like many do and who's had their schedules compromised, your plans, sorted, etc, simply because of CBOE. And you walk us through exactly why you think that you ended up there and what someone can do about it. And that's really what people want to know when they come to the clinic. Absolutely. AndKen Brown  15:59  what I love about your book is that you have certain aspects, which are the little gray boxes, yes, which are just kind of pearls. And more importantly, you say how to use my book, like this is how to use the book. So you have this way of saying, This is my story, if you want to get into it, that's fine. This is what I recommend. This is what the experts recommend. This is the science part of it. So it's it's almost a guide that people can go back and forth to so it's, I want to read it once get the story. And I'm going to go back and use the book as a guide to help me get through this.Unknown Speaker  16:35  I really appreciate that observation, because that is exactly what I was intending it to be. And on page 111. There is that protocol or the algorithm that Dr. Pimentel created that Dr. Sanford Lewis added to and Dr. C Becker attitude I even added to it. And this is we call it the Siebel recovery roadmap, which is also the name of the course Dr. C. Becker and I created and it takes you through everything where to test when to treat, what if that didn't work? Go back to you know, it's like a game right? Not really. But it this is the guide. So that is the whole book is based on that the whole course Evo recovery roadmap is based on that as well. And, you know, 21 days, people, it's gonna take longer than 21 days. Okay, I'm just gonna tell you that right now, we were given a really good start. And you can make a plan in that 21 days. SoKen Brown  17:25  this is not a spoiler alert, but it is kind of a spoiler. Alright, so it is a spoiler alert, if you're, if you're going to read the book, just press mute here because the the book, I mean, it grabs you right away. And then it really, really peaks and just nailed you on page 47. That's probably my favorite page. by far my favorite page on 46. very bottom of 40. A book completely peaks at 46. And does a good job of maintaining From then on, but really, at 46 is really whenEric Rieger  17:58  we get to print, we have a pre Super Bowl party just to sit around and read page four.Ken Brown  18:03  Yeah, we're gonna read page 46. That's when she mentioned my name. SoUnknown Speaker  18:07  I was Yeah.Unknown Speaker  18:11  You're gonna go to page 46. And about Asan to Eric, I'm your name. I'm so sorry.Eric Rieger  18:18  That's okay. That's okay. I really want people to come over to the house before the game and talk aboutKen Brown  18:25  that was not really a spoiler that was just thank you for mentioning me in your book. That was very, very kind of you. That was very sweet. And actually, that's, there's many, many other highlights in the book besides page 46. But go to page 46.Unknown Speaker  18:40  I should have made it longer and bigger. There it is. Um, yeah, I think you're also on page 220 as well. Oh,Ken Brown  18:49  I missedUnknown Speaker  18:50  219 Oh, gosh, I hope so. I hope you're in there. Yeah. Dr. Ken Brown.Unknown Speaker  18:54  There we go.Unknown Speaker  18:57  So what can I say?Ken Brown  18:59  All right. So one thing that I would like to do because you're the voice of CBOE as far as my world, all my patients tell you, oh, oh my gosh, I had a patient today that I telemedicine visit. And I said, Yeah, this is really exciting. We're going to be interviewing Shavasana and she goes, Oh, I was on her summit, and she told me to make an appointment with you and she lives in Texas, so she could do a telemedicine. So because of you She made it a point with me and she got so excited. Like, like, I was like this celebrity whisperer. She's like, you know, shavon I'm like, Well, yeah. And she's like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. I'm gonna watch this. It's gonna be really neat. So what I really what I really liked was the beginning because honestly, you and I have worked together for a few years now and it's always been in the medical aspect. I loved your story. Would you mind just telling who Shavasana is and why you ended up here.Unknown Speaker  19:58  Okay, so There are many aspects to Shivani Varna one of them the multifaceted jewel that she is. Well, basically, you know, my parents are my dad's from India. My mom is Irish and Welsh from upstate New York. And they met in the 50s. And in a New York Times ad, because this is relevant to not just like my life strike, because my father ran this incredible business called the Bell's Sarna. And if you're of a certain age, you know what they are. They're the brass bells that the hippies loved. And I have an incense named after me and yes, man, I, you know, I like I've already arrived the incense, you know. That is like, wah, wah. Anyway. My mom was upstate New York. She went to work. In the big city, she had a merchandising background. He wanted her to run his showroom back then, and she would not work for him because he was not going to pay her, which I love and his family legend. However he did caught her and they did get married. And he was 30 years her senior and of another culture and was older than her mother. And father's is very, yeah, he was born in the 1800s. Okay, so I was born when he was 69 years old. Oh, my, oh, my 30 year age difference anyway. So we would go on buying trips to India, they would and I would obviously, as a little kid, get schlepped along and I would go and you know, I've been to India a bunch of times as a child. I got really, really sick. And as you can imagine when my little baby microbiome, and you're drinking water buffalo milk and just Who knows? So anyway, I got really sick. I justKen Brown  21:55  want to stop there for a second Eric said sure. Like, of course water buffalo milk. Why not?Eric Rieger  21:59  Is that not something you saw? Yeah,Ken Brown  22:03  I just thought, Wow, there it goes. Sure. Yeah, of course. indicator. We do water buffalo all the time.Eric Rieger  22:09  Oh, no. Do we do dry buffalo? Okay,Ken Brown  22:13  go on. sighsUnknown Speaker  22:14  Why? Anyway, then I came back, right? A little kid. We lived in Manhattan. We went on field trips, right from this fancy Dalton school. I went to like super chic school. Anyway, we would milk the cows like little city kids at this farm in upstate New York. They had us drink some of the milk just like a sip, you know, no big deal. But man, I got so sick. Really? Oh my gosh, it was so sick. And like things weren't the same. They just were not the same. And I remember my mom had a poster with a quote on it in the bathroom like as a decorative thing. And it was the first thing as a person that I'd ever memorized because it was bottom line is my father being Indian asked my mom like cheban going enough, you know, because like, there are a Vedic perspective, you gotta be going to be healthy. And mom was like, all of a sudden really worried. And that was the first time I experienced shame around the bathroom. Because like they were just a little bit too invasive enough. Five years old. I'd like it you know, mind your beeswax. Okay, get out of my does. But that was the first memory I have of that. And then it has just been like, I'm not great the rest of my life and I'm a skinny person and in college we would call my stomach Buddha belly, all the guards and perspective Buddha. But it was just like a thing like skinny person bloated belly. And I used to also see those posters of Sally Struthers you remember her and she would like save the child and they have these little kids with these big distended bellies. Right? Be like, look like that. Like, yay, what's that? Am I okay? Anyway, not that not as severe, of course. But I fast forward, moved into a sorority house at the University of Florida and realized that my patterns were definitely different than everybody else. But I was doing okay, got into life got, you know, career, big career on TV 20 years at HSN home shopping network for those of you who are not my demographic and and you are not my demographic. And, you know, I was starting to get really, really sick towards you know, the past like seven, seven years or so. And I was like, the slimware was not working to hold the belly and the bloat in and I was really getting concerned like I started to think maybe I had cancer. I just didn't know. And I insisted, thank goodness, he listened to me in a way my gastroenterologist I like begged for a What do they call, you know, endoscopy? No the other one and asked the colonoscopy stupid. Yeah, this is me doing a demo of a colonoscopy.Ken Brown  25:04  I begged for him to play a violin andEric Rieger  25:09  I wanted him to conduct aUnknown Speaker  25:11  mock up. So anyway, um, so I begged him to do this because I thought I was dying. I thought he's gonna go in there and he's gonna see something and it was like the day before Christmas Eve, it was like right before Christmas. I got the last appointment beforehand. And I thought, Oh, well, this is the year I find out that I'm dying. Something something's clearly wrong with me. And you know, after the colonoscopy and you're like, all drunk from the prop the proper fall. He's like, not I just saw nothing. It's fine. I'll see him like five years cheban I'm like, how is that possible? And why is it that I'm upset that I don't have a diagnosis right now? That is messed up. messed up. You should be thrilled. Answer That's awesome. Oh, I you know, I just kept trying to find the right doctors and the several I went to were like, here's an antidepressant You poor thing. Wink wink bless your heart run three miles like I can barely like get out of bed much was run run three mile IKen Brown  26:15  love that that you refer to that guys the run three miles doctor for several chapters.Unknown Speaker  26:21  Yeah, I really don't even remember his name. I just remember that. He's retired now, which I think is best. So I did. Finally I was talking to my girlfriend at work. And she and I had this passing conversation because we were the weirdos who were gluten free. And you know, now it's much more prevalent, but like we really like got flack for being gluten free. Just to show you how like backwards. The situation was. And she's like, Oh, yeah, this really intense antibiotic right now for my gut. I'm like, What? And she goes, Yeah, breathe into these test tubes. And then I'm on this serious antibiotic and like immediately here, serious antibiotic and your brain shuts down and I go, I'm not gonna do that. But I couldn't get it out of my head. I called her. I was like, What are you talking about? She told me to the best of her ability. And I asked the doctor for a breath test had the breath test for CBOE they interpreted it wrong. It literally said negative and I could see the handwriting scratch. No, it said positive and it was scratched out. And new handwriting was there that said negative, which is totally wrong. It was positive. But I lost 18 months, right? And you know, when you when you're in this quest mode of trying to find out what's wrong with you. Knowing what you're not dealing with is just as important is knowing what you are dealing with. So I was misinformed for those 18 months. Anyway, I finally got the right person and did another breath test. And it was so freakin positive. It was, you know, irrefutable, and started treatment and was never told that you might have to do multiple rounds. So here I am taking my Rifaximin I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get better. And after the two weeks, 10 days, I was not better. I was not better. I was confused. And I'm like, hey, it didn't work. I've never had an antibiotic, like not work. And then I got I was like, wait a minute misinformation. I'm not getting the whole story. I'm gonna have to do some research here. And that's really what I mean, there was a lot of research beforehand. But when that first round of antibiotics didn't work, I realized something, something's wrong here. Like, I'm gonna have to become my own advocate. So I started printing out the studies, I would like walk into the appointments with them, I'd be like, Look, here's the treatment right here, you need to give me another round and I need some neomycin as well, dear. And my doctor was amazing, was very open. And now he's basically a sumo expert. And he has a mixed emotion about all the patients that go to him at from my family with a lot of really difficult cases now, but that's so that's it, I took the IBS smart test, I found out that I definitely had post infectious IBS, which was a relief because I do my pro kinetic religiously. And even though I have the underlying cause of post infectious IBS, meaning that from food poisoning, I have thebault the fact that I am dealing with it and treating it with my mo Tegrity pyrokinetic I feel percent better and that's part of the message that is really important is like you might not be cured on paper. It's a different mindset. But if you're managing your condition, you can feel 100% better than a than a condition on treated and you as medical professionals know that but I just want other patients to hear thatEric Rieger  29:50  man that's awesome, honestly, because when you tell that story, it's it seems it is it's very unique to you because that you're the one experiencing it. However For the patients who come through with long term CBOE, they when I hear the stops, and I didn't know, and I just wanted to find out, even if I found out what it wasn't, it's almost like everyone who starts off with CBOE or severe IBS. They're just a long line of hurdles, that for years, you just simply had to jump over or push down to finally get to some kind of answer. And that's, that's, that's who ends up in our clinic. 100%. And that's why I wanted you to tell your story, because I felt that your intro of the book was it although the names are a little slightly different, the timeframe, slightly different, but every one of my patients has such a similar story. I'm usually the third or fourth doctor that they come to see. And they have that they have that response, which is that they feel that they are being dismissed, they're being placated. It's, you know, and they're moving on. AndKen Brown  30:54  the interesting thing is that much like you and intelligence, strong person that, you know, is successful, they know that something's wrong. And they're like, Look, I get that you're a doctor, but I'm telling you, it's like when it's like when a mother knows that something's wrong with their child, you don't argue just okay, I'm missing something, right. And that's how I feel about that. So when somebody comes up and says, and it is an I challenge you and everyone in this book that's involved with this, because this is going to be a moving target, that we all have to continue to evolve and move through this because you covered so many important things in this book. So that's your story. And then you get into I just want to go over the book a little bit. Because if if somebody's listening to this, and they're like, Well, I I was told I have irritable bowel syndrome. I mean, how do I know that I have this? Well, the first chapter you have is really basic, what is CBOE period, and you just, you just cut to the chase, which I love because I'm very myopic. By the time I see people, they've already done their homework. They've already been to your summit. They've already heard this, but you took a step back and you're like, Look, this is what is CBOE. I'm going to tell you the basics here. So we're going to cover the basics. And then not to like get too far ahead in the book, but then you went through and you covered things like some pretty intense stuff, relapsing remitting CBOE pots, stuff like that. So what I really love is that you tell your story, and then you said, Okay, this is my journey, this is what I learned. I'm just gonna lay it out there. And then these are what the experts say, in the gray boxes, you said, I interview this person, this is what they suggest.Unknown Speaker  32:38  Yeah, I, you know, we're very clear that I'm not a medical professional. I mean, I'm medically oriented in my brain, and I'm a yoga teacher. So I know some about the body. But this is for I wanted to write it for people who had never really taken the time to think about their intestines before. And I one of the NPR interviews, the person asked me, like, why is it that we don't pay more attention, like we feel unwell, maybe we have a round of diarrhea, we take our Maalox or whatever, and then we don't do anything until it happens again, and then we just get on this, this whole vicious cycle. And I've, I've really thought about this a lot. If my intestines were on the outside of my body, they would be so pretty. Alright, I wouldn't be like have the prettiest, I'd be so proud of them. Everybody would be like showing theirs off. And you know, they put hats on them and different colors and tattoos and who knows what else it'd be decorative. So the fact that they're on the inside of the body much like your teeth, right? You'd like you see these students back there? What's going on with your tonsils? Like that's, I don't think people think about that, because we're not staring at them. The way we are on the outer of our outside of our body. So I wanted to really write this for people who hadn't thought about it. And there's a section on learning how to prove Yes, there is a better way to do it. A tip for being lovers.Ken Brown  34:00  Can I can I just stop you for a quick second, talking about if my intestines are on the outside. As a gastroenterologist and I know that you'll agree with this. Here's the deal, our outward presentation are outward, brain health are outward, everything is a reflection of our gut health. So if you're somebody that's battling rosacea, if you're somebody that's battling acne, if you're somebody that has brain fog, or these different things you covered in your book, so although you say if my guts around the outside, really we do manifest our guts on the outside, in the way that we interact with the world. SoUnknown Speaker  34:36  brilliant, Lord, He is there. It is there, but we have to make the connection. We have to make the connection. And you know, I'm sitting here talking to you and I don't have brain fog right now. But at one point, my brain fog was so bad and scared my husband so much because I could not speak it wasn't for a long period. of time, it was just a couple of times where I literally couldn't talk. And it scared the crap out of him. And it scared me. And then I was for a small period of time also memorable. stuttering, because I just, it just couldn't come out. And I speak for a living. So that really scared us. But it, it's real, you guys, it's real, you're not crazy, you are absolutely in have every right to good medical, you know, assistance, you are just a message to other patients, you may have to drive the bus for a while.Eric Rieger  35:36  And I love the fact that you just use the word that you're not crazy, because so many times we see people who've either been told that that's what they are, or that they are overly anxious or they are severely depressed. And that happens to be the route that someone goes to. And truthfully, they may be experiencing anxiety or depression. But just as both of y'all just said, it's really just a manifestation of a, it's there's an oven down there. And it's it's creating inflammation everywhere, and it's affecting the brain. And it's unfortunate because we need to begin to heal by taking care of the gut. SoKen Brown  36:12  on our previous podcast, we interviewed a well, as soon to be PhD, who her specialty is in looking at gut inflammation affecting the brain. And what we can show is, and you actually talked about it in your book with the lipid polysaccharides. And things like that. Brain fog is actually a result of TNF alpha different inflammatory mediators that cross the blood brain barrier. So when people go, and they they beat themselves up, and they say, you know, my gosh, I, why can't I do this? Sometimes it's out of your control. And sometimes it's because you have an inflammatory process starting in your gut, crossing your brain. So when you say, somebody that is a TV personality that struggled to find her words, that's your livelihood. That's not a fake thing you like that was real. That's scary. Yeah.Unknown Speaker  37:05  What was it very scary. I happen to have been doing it on my day off. So it wasn't like I had to go into work that afternoon. And I have good history of like, being able to sleep it off. Like if I don't feel well, I take a nap. I'm often better. Because that's just like, my body does a lot of work when I sleep. But it Yeah, it's Look, if you're in a banking situation, or you're a nuclear chemist, or something, you have to be thinking about, and you've got to have clarity. Not to mention, it's so hard to show up, right? It's so hard to show up for your loved ones and for yourself. And, you know, the thought of running three miles or even like doing some fitness for myself at that time was practically impossible, because I was just like surviving. Now, it did have something else going on at the same time, which I didn't realize until later. And that is that the television studio was infested with mold. Oh, yeah. So that is my opinion. That has not been proven. That is my opinion. However, I definitely have mold poisoning. I definitely have that. And so that made everything worse. And I think I ended up getting a lot worse with my CBOE and having those extra brain issues temporarily as they may have been, when the mold really started to you know, the bucket over was overflowing with that.Ken Brown  38:28  Well, in your book, you also described the hours you're working, the stress you're under. I mean, it was the perfect storm, immune system to an end, everything comes down to inflammation, everything comes down inflammation. So if the inflammation is in your gut, it goes to your brain. If your body's reacting to mold, mycotoxins same thing, it's you, you unfortunately, were put in a situation that your immune system could not handle and yeah, or over handle. Let's put it that way over. Yeah,Unknown Speaker  39:03  exactly. That's when the psoriasis came and all that I have other friends that work there that don't don't have any symptoms of mold whatsoever. I have other friends that are like, you know, they walk in and their eyes are running whatever the situation is. But it's interesting because they're definitely people who are not impacted by it.Eric Rieger  39:23  But chances are, wouldn't it be something that would be important that if you don't have a healthy gut, and let's say that you do suffer from severe IBS or cebo you are now compromised, you will not be able to handle circulating mycotoxins otherwise had you had your gut been healthy and where it needed to be optimized. You may have never even noticed the compounding aspects of mycotoxins.Unknown Speaker  39:47  Exactly, exactly. So it was the perfect storm. But you know, I, I want everyone to know there is hope there are answers there. You know, I think I do think Pimentel is gonna come With a cure, I really do, or at least, you know, big, big advances. I'm sorry, love a stat and didn't seem to work out. But we do have natural alternatives as well. Thank you very much. I'll try to.Eric Rieger  40:13  You're hoping thatUnknown Speaker  40:14  what is that?Eric Rieger  40:15  That looks pretty?Unknown Speaker  40:18  Really cool. This is one of those incredible stories that some friends of mine have developed from a conversation about a cow. Tell us that story. Dr. Ken Brown, please.Ken Brown  40:30  The conversation involves a cow and Dr. Pimentel and I'm gonna go I'm gonna throw it right back to Dr. Pimentel. I mean, somebody that can take the concept of irritable bowel, which is a trash can, and then figure out that it comes down to bacteria. I love that guy. And I think you're right, I think he's gonna figure it out. And because him and I were working together, I was involved in the original studies ends I faccin. Trying to do it naturally is sort of my goal. And so everyone has their mission, I want to try and figure out how to heal people naturally. And the tannins in Toronto have been shown to help with bloating, irritable bowel and CBOE also, and which is why we got page 46. And page 219. Go read the book. It's amazing. Probably the best part of the whole book, because that's a whole separate discussion.Eric Rieger  41:20  Is there a reason why we didn't bring up water buffalo, and we're only talking about?Ken Brown  41:24  But so chevonne, a couple of the things that I found really cool about your book, which my patients struggle with. And I love that you had a chapter on his cebo controlling my weight. Yeah, if I have one complaint, it's that patient say I'm eating less and still gaining weight. And you had a whole chapter on it. And I admire you for taking that on because you covered it in a very scientific way. I love that. Can you comment on that?Unknown Speaker  41:52  Oh, thank you so much. You know, there are two parts of that. One is that and I had never really thought about this until someone in my facebook group wrote me an email that said, Hey, Sean, you're talking about overweight a lot. You're not paying attention to those of us who are underweight. And you know, ours is, you know, not a vanity issue, we could die. And it was a big wake up call for me. So in this chapter, I do address underweight for those of you who are listening. I mean, my heart goes out to you 110%, please don't give up. For those of us who struggle with our weight on the other side. Dr. Pimentel, his wife is also a researcher. And she is doing a lot of studying about how methane actually a methane dominant or IMO, actually, those little ARCA rkip, okay, are absorbing your calories at a higher rate than other things. So you could be eating the same thing someone else is eating, you could have a twin, assuming all things were also equal. And if you had IMO, and they didn't, your little guys would be absorbing more calories than someone with a different microbiome. And so that can lead to weight gain, which I found fascinating and deeply depressing, by the way.Ken Brown  43:13  Well, it's it's really interesting, because there's lots of fecal microbial transplant studies. Yeah, twins have had that do to ulcerative colitis and things I actually have a I actually have a patient that the twin got the FMT from the non ulcerative colitis. And then the twin started gaining weight developing, acting, developing polycystic ovary disease, things that she didn't have, that the other twin did, it did help her colitis. So it is really it's a very complex thing, the whole microbiome and the environment. But you did a really good job of explaining in the book about how complex it is, and how it's so much of this is out of our control. So please don't get frustrated. That's not what I really got out of your book. Don't, don't blame it on yourself. A lot of this is out of your control. Try control the environment, the epigenetics, and the doctors that you go see.Unknown Speaker  44:11  Exactly. And that if you don't find the right doctor right away, keep going. I do here in our Facebook group, which you know, has over 17,000 people in it, and it's just it's an amazing community. I do hear sometimes despair, and just an unwillingness to do the next thing that they actually logically know is the right thing to do next, but they're exhausted. And they aren't even acknowledging their exhaustion. They're just like, I've tried everything I spent $10,000, which I can totally relate. But Dr. Steve Becker has this thing which is very simple. And she's and it's in the book I know. And it's Have you tried really everything like everything. It's very rare that someone's tried everything you could possibly do. And there are other options and don't quit before the miracle, right? You hang in there, keep at it there. What if we only have like one thing or we didn't even have, as I Faxon or Shawn deal to deal with it, we have a variety of choices. The herbal antibiotics have been studied, the pharmaceuticals have been studied elemental diet, to be miraculous for you are drawn to is miraculous for so many people. So the fact that you have all of these choices, I think is huge, huge, huge, huge. I'm not trying to be Pollyanna, but I am just trying to do a little bit of perspective change. And, and, and just encourage you to keep going keep keep I we call it spinning the plate in the industry of when like my my family and the gift registry, you spin the plate like well, you have the mashed potatoes, now you gotta sell them the peas now you gotta you just have to keep going.Eric Rieger  46:01  I think you just described it, it's CBOE and IBS, they, they're complex problems. And complexKen Brown  46:07  problems require some complex solutions. It didn't generally happen overnight. And, and addressing all that is is incredibly important. So one thing Shivam that you did hit on on your book also that I'm seeing a whole lot of, even if you're a super tough person, and you just brush off all of this and say whatever so I'm bloated, it is what it is. I got a family out of I got to work I'm going to do things. I'm seeing that the inflammation caused by this can lead to a domino effect. Ultimately, which could be autoimmune disease, but also I'm seeing this this constellation of what you what you tapped on, which is this dysautonomia pots, probably, you know that the whole thing leading and so I'm seeing this constellation of Ehlers danlos people that then they started with cebo, then suddenly were diagnosed with Ehlers danlos. And then they go see a cardiologist to diagnose him with pots, and then all of a sudden, we're talking about maules syndrome, medium arcuate ligament syndrome. And it's this constellation where you're like, wait a minute, you were normal. Five years ago, yeah. And now we're talking about this crazy constellation of symptoms. We need to you know, it's that whole thing of a walk it off. No, you need to rest you need to figure it out, you need to fix it before this becomes something more like an autoimmune disease.Unknown Speaker  47:41  Right. It's it, you know, I have mild Ehlers danlos, like, you know, legitimately diagnosed by a specialist. And you know, I can do this whole thing with the thumb. And you know, it's I don't have I know, people have, some people can't walk from it, it's really an insidious scenario. But if it started to feel like oh, I've got psoriasis, I've got a list and loves, I have the mold, I have old Lyme, I have old EBV. So I can totally relate to that, that there is a way forward to at least feel better, right, at least feel better. And you do have to take really good care of yourself. And the other thing, you know, you're also teaching other people how to treat you by how you treat yourself. And there are two things I wish my parents had done. And my parents were amazing, amazing. I wish they had taught me how to save money. And I wish that they had exercised regularly and made that a habit for me. And those are the two things. I mean, it really obviously, look, if that's my biggest complaint, I'm doing great in terms of my early childhood, but you have to teach other people how to treat you and you have to take time to do the things that you weren't taught. So maybe that is doing the yoga class or just like frickin 15 minutes a day of a walk or shutting the door or whatever, or meditating or playing your favorite music and dancing in the living room. I really don't care what it is as long as you really claim it and use it as a healing tool for yourself. Because in that quiet, that's when that super thinking can happen. Now I'm a big meditator and that has definitely saved my life. There's no doubt about it. And I talked about some apps and some places on the web where you can learn how to meditate. But even just that act of cleaning 15 minutes a day is so powerful and I believe it starts a velocity of other positive things.Ken Brown  49:37  I would say I love that absolutely love that and I get made fun of by my family. I get made fun of by my friends. But the one thing that I'm teaching my children is that do not discount any idea until you number one researcher number two try it. So I will come back I'll be like other beautiful Cast and there'll be a random packages showing up from Amazon heard a podcast we're gonna try this now. So it's become a running joke in my family. But it the the nonsense sits down and the gold kind of stays up top and we saw no we call that we breathe, we do stuff and I'm and I'm I say this not so much for me and my kids I say this to my colleagues, don't just pat somebody on the head and say the scope was negative, you're fine because I've learned a ton in the last I've learned a ton from you. Yeah, I've learned a ton from you know, Dr. C. Becker, Dr. Russo, Dr. Pimentel, all these fantastic people that have taken the time to learn things and then put them in a readable format, so that we can all learn from it. Traditionally trained gastroenterologist like myself, I run into my colleagues that their initial knee jerk is, oh, there's no science on that. Well, there is you just haven't taken the time to look at it. So my, what you say is what I wish my parents would have taught me. You're, what you did is you took everything great that your parents taught you, and you took it to the next level, which is, which is the legacy that you're doing, and you're doing an amazing job of that what I'm trying to do is teach my kids. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I'm having an open mind. And just believe and try it. If it doesn't work, no harm, no foul.Unknown Speaker  51:35  But those are great steps in the right direction. For sure. Thank you guys so much for having me. Don't forget to pick up your artron tail at CBOE SOS comm slash shop, we have one of the best prices in the world.Eric Rieger  51:49  So I'm gonna say it again, go to CBOE sls.com. To link up with chevonne. And then in shop, we should go ahead and say it's one of the best deals that you can get an electron to period.Ken Brown  52:01  Alright, so chevonne has been a huge supporter of us from day one. And we are a huge supporter of her. So if you're gonna buy ultra until this is,Eric Rieger  52:11  and this is, you know what, while we've been talking, I just thought about it. It's not just how to heal from CBOE This is really how to improve your quality of life. If you're a player. I mean, you said it yourself it sometimes it comes down to management until something better comes along. But each day, we only have so many days. And if I can improve my quality of life, and this is something that is affecting me. This is how I improved my quality of life. And we talked about we talked about healthspan and healthspan versus lifespan you want you want good health for as long as you're alive.Unknown Speaker  52:46  Yeah, that isKen Brown  52:48  very worried. Sorry, interruption on I just want to add that if if if if you're sitting here and you're like, well, I can't eat anything really. You can't eat honey macaroons which are dairy free, gluten free, not free. Yeah, there's a recipe for that bad boy. You've got some, some killer recipes are really, really good.Unknown Speaker  53:07  They're really good. And I did, I created them with Christie Regan, who has written like two or three CBOE cookbooks who's a CBOE nutritionist who's a fantastic human being. And I would eat her food when I would go to Portland, Oregon. And because that's where she's located. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I really need your help with this cookbook. And so we've created these together, and she made sure they tasted really good. And then I have the blessing of a woman who's helping me the house right now, because I'm trying to do these other summits and do a couple of other products. She's been helping me with creating some of my food. I just handed her a book. I'm like, here, I need this food. This is it. And I've been re tasting it. And I've been thrilled and very relieved. It is delicious. A long time ago, I just had that Green Goddess dressing with a slab of celery, yum. I mean, it's legitimately really delicious. But I promised I would not say that. If I did mean I'd be like, Okay, fantastic.Ken Brown  54:07  One last thing I want to I want to talk about your book, which is really awesome. Not only do you have a bunch of recipes to do this, but you really do have a 21 day plan where day by day you go through and you say this is what you're going to do. And you're going to walk people through just as if you were like a a personal trainer, and you said you're gonna have this on this day, you're going to eat this. It's amazing. So it's like it's basically a no brainer. People are going to read the first part, they're gonna go Okay, now I understand it. And then the middle part, you're saying, This is what you're going to do to fix it. And then the back part, this is what you're going to do to keep yourself healthy going on. It's great. It's a great book. It's awesome.Eric Rieger  54:47  Gentlemen, thank you so much. chevonne for joining us, this is Shavasana healing CBOE and you want people to buy the book at Amazon. Correct.Unknown Speaker  54:56  Amazon, wherever booksellers you know, find booksellers Barnes Although there are tons of places, but if you do buy it on Amazon, please do leave a review. And be sure to come to see Bo SOS calm to get the best deal on auto scale.Ken Brown  55:08  And remember if you leave a review just mentioned that page 46 is the best page in the book.Eric Rieger  55:14  Yes. Big fan. That is Episode 50. gut check project fans, thank y'all so much for joining us. shavon. Thank you so much for all of your support, introducing us to have you introduced us to and I'm certain that we'll do this again. So,Ken Brown  55:28  absolutely. So where do they go to get entrepreneurial from themEric Rieger  55:30  go to CBOE sos.com. And of course, we'll always have it in our show notes so that you'll know exactly where to go. And you go to the shop button. If you happen to go to the homepage and you can find it right there.Ken Brown  55:44  That's awesome. shavon I once again, thank you much love. You are the voice of CBOE and I feel like you're just getting warmed up. Awesome.Unknown Speaker  55:53  Yeah, baby. Thank you guys so much. Bye bye.Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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Join host Cyrus Webb as he celebrates his 10,000th guest of his career as host of Conversations LIVE and his Guiness World Record event.  Guests include Kenneth Brown, Ashley Rae Harper,Tony Saunders, Ronyai,Shelia Bell,Lyn-Dee Eldridge, LaWanna Bradford, Mitzie Pratt, Debbie Ortiz,Sandra Chaney,Gissele Donovan,Lisa George,Michael Jai white.

Bienvenidos Ah, this is where no, sorry, I screwed it up. So I got really nervous. It's like the lights came on. Okay.Remember, we're actually saying that Yeah.Okay, there we go. Three. You ready? Oh, yeah. Okay. Three, two on bmnh Oh, god check project. Your soy, Eric. Esta Dr. Brown,Dr. Brown Como estas Morgana, grassy asmita story super emotional o por el podcastone tenemos en invitado fantastical. gephi ancestors that podcast story.Sylvia done this style of video.Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, guys, I can't speak English. Oh, okay.Oh, thank goodness cuz I'm pretty sure that's all the Spanish Eric knew. And banyo I got that down too. So why don't we Why don't we start over and just take it from the top in English. Now that we know that our wonderful guest who lives in Spain to learn all about That's right. actually speaks English. Okay, probably should have figured that out. Before we started the podcastguys. I'm gonna start all over. So welcome gut check project fans and KB MD health family. It's now episode number 49. I'm Eric. This is my awesome co host Dr. Kenneth Brown. And today we've got an incredible special guest that I tried. I you know, I can't I tried Spanish.I tried. You did so Eric. Eric dusted off his eighth grade Spanish. He was trying to impress Silvia you know, I mean, we're both a little nervous because what what we have on the podcast today is super special. Everybody has heroes in their life and Silvia is my hero because she is a poly phenol expert. She's getting her doctorate in specifically the polyphenols that we use on Tron teal. So she knows more about it than anybody I've ever met. And I'm so excited and nervous that we actually tried to speak in her native her native language.I'm just embarrassed that but there'll be a welcome to the show. Welcome to go check project. Thank you so much for makingvideos.She said y'all she's trying tolearn some Texas now first of all, Silvia get us up to speed you're living in Granada Spain. What is going on there? You You WhatsApp to me You guys got a little earthquake situation right?Yeah, we were we were we were that weights. But now where? We stay better here. Fortunately, visitation is is better.You said it so calm. When you just WhatsApp you're like, oh, things are good. Here. We're dealing with a lot of earthquakes. Thanks for asking. Tough in Spain.We used to.So this is this is super cool. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I have followed your work. Some of the work that you have done as the lead author I have used we've discussed it on multiple podcasts. If you've seen Episode 47 Episode 46 multiple other episodes, we always refer to the large stable polyphenols and how they get broken down by the microbiome and the purse that articles that always reference. This is the author of those articles. Sylvia Molino, who is I almost called you doctor but you're almost a doctor, right? almost almost.Nice. Nice. Hey, sowhy don't you tell us a bit about your background how you ended up there? What's going on? Everything Everything about Silvia Molino.Okay, so I am a biologist. I got my master's degree in Italy. But I the my train sheep here in Granada, where we started working with embitter. And they're just in implementation. And I fell in love with this argument. And then in one Congress, I met Michaela Battaglia is the CEO of silica team, that Britain is a b2b company that produced what the word leader is producing tannins that are polyphenols, sure, and he got interested in my work. So we started collaborating and and then we had the idea to create a new project to investigate the application of tannins in humans. And so I just started with my PhD working on that, and I'm still working on that and we have continuing on thatYeah, that's awesome. So when you when you first hopped into it, were polyphenol something that drew your interest in their immediate applications for for health or is it something that just kind of just happened over time? What was it that drew you into wanting to study about polyphenols?Well, um, I ever I always have been interesting in polyphenols about more in general about nutraceutical okay, because I believe that we could treat some diseases or some dysfunction with natural product, because actually, we are using a lot of synthetic treatment, but they were discovered from studying nature. So sometimes I think that we could go back to the power of nature. And in this case, 10 isabsolutely Well honestly, the timing really couldn't be better and where we find ourselves not just in the United States, but obviously all the way around the world for us to find and escape from synthetic solutions to what otherwise are just natural problems. And if probably we were consuming more polythene hauls as a you know, for the entire earth we would be in better shape. Yeah.Repeat that.Eric was just saying that you're exactly right. We have always we have a we have felt that the consumption of polyphenols is what what we're lacking in the western American diet. If we had more polyphenols we would have better health.Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah,I was just gonna say you use the word nutraceutical, which is, which is interesting because we've, we've coined that term, but what does nutraceutical mean to you as a scientist?Wow, it's a hard question for me and you're just starting over is a solution that could be assumed for from a person by person. Like it will be a part of the natural diet like it will be a tude. Okay, so something more natural.Okay, so a functional food, nutraceutical interesting, a molecule that can have health benefits, but it's found in nature?Yeah, exactly.And so you through your research, you found that these beautiful molecules called polyphenols have hold all this potential to be bioactive and possibly a nutraceutical for humans. So, for anybody that has not heard this, can you explain in your words what a poly phenol is?Well, polyphenols are molecules if we can find in a network, obviously, the name derives from the chemical structure and they are well known for the multiple by activities beneficial by activities. First of all, they are antioxidant, they are what non antioxidant. And this is a super important characteristic of them because they help us to counteract the action of the oxidative stress. The oxidative stress is a normal events that we have that happens in our bodies, and can lead to a lot a lot of diseases and a lot of problems.So leading to like inflammation, is that kind of what you're talking about there with long exposures of oxidative stress?Well, can you repeat, please?Sure. Are you saying that oxidative stress leads to inflammation, like more inflammation around tissues? Is that what you're saying?Yeah, for sure. Well, normally we our normal metabolism, I produce free radicals. Okay. And this normal normal process of power rally, but what happens if we produce a high amount of, of these free radicals, and it's normal to breathe in sometimes to produce a lot of free radicals. And the causes could be external factors, such as stress or bad diet, for example, we have some endogenous mechanisms of our body to counteract these production of oxidative stress done by the free radicals, but these are not sufficient and are not not the most of the times. So we need to intake somehow. From from external hub. And in this case, we have to take antioxidant. And antioxidant we can find, for example, polyphenols, other one on the oxygen, for example, our could be vitamin C, Vitamin E. But from our study, for example, we could discover that time knees, among other 43 years has exert a higher activity than this well known molecules, such as vitamin C. So we could, in this case, it is a smaller amount of external external compounds and not enough to not have to have the same effect. So it's so great.Okay, now it makes it makes a lot of sense. Very congruent.Yeah, it absolutely does. So when we talk about these polyphenols and you brought up tannins, which is what your research has been in, we know that people that are discussing polyphenols, the molecules that make vegetables colorful, there are different sizes and different characteristics as a researcher that you have figured out, can you explain the differences in sizes, characteristics and antioxidant capabilities? Just real grossly and then we'll talk about some of your research because I think it's so cool. Getting the foundation like this.Yeah, I'm on point he knows Wait, what polyphenols are a huge group of molecules. Among them we can find tannins and tannins are one known for the characteristic to the capacity to bind and precipitate protein alkaloids and carbohydrates among other molecules. Among tannins, we can have hydrolyzable tannins and condensed hominids, the realizable Chinese are called like that because they are the they are either realizable, with a lot of facility with weak weak assets. Among these group, we could find Gulf tannins, and a lot of tannins, depending on the different structure nucleus that we can find in the in the in the compounds. And when we don't have a generalizable tannins we have so condensed tannins destructors are characterized by the presence of Brandis entities that can form a big big structure like with with bending blocks. Just explain in an easier way. And sometimes we could have also an association between advisable timings and condensed tannins. And so we have complex diamonds and the name was explained the complexity of the molecules because they we have in this case, big big big molecules.Sothe these molecules that are larger Danny's the alternates, and the contents on this are characterized by the presence of a lot of hydroxyl groups. And these groups are responsible of the antioxidant, the great antioxidant capacity of the planets. So it's also so important.So let me pause you right there. So you're saying that the what makes these polyphenols unique the polyphenols under the big umbrella, or the large polyphenols proanthocyanidins which are in the class of tannins. They have tremendous antioxidant capacity because they have the hydroxyl groups, a bunch of them all around the hydroxyl group is the oh ah that you'll see in those chemistry structures are always there, hydroxyl. So you're saying that the the amount of hydroxyl groups is very important to the antioxidant component?Yeah, definitely. And they can exert they are different activity in different way. For example, and thanks to the hydroxyl groups, they could they have the capacity to come in the free radicals. But in other cases they could have, they could have also our endogenous antioxidant system, for example, they can use the production of antioxidant enzymes that we can produce.Like, is that like super oxide? dismutase? Is that one of them? The anti turning onto what is it? What is an example of a endogenous antioxidant enzyme that the tenant turns on?Well, well, what I was saying before what what I was what I was explaining before About our endogenous response to the oxidative stress, we produce some antioxidant enzymes, okay, for example supersedure, dismutase, or catalase, okay? So we know that tannins among all therefore the females can in us increase the production of these enzymes, so reducing that oxidative stress in our body.So it's twofold. It can basically bind to these weak acids, as well as make our bodies produce more of the enzymes to help basically combine these free radicals.Onto production. Yeah,that's awesome. And I think that once we get to your studies, we're gonna find it. That's not that's just the tip of the iceberg. That'sjust tip of the iceberg. So everybody, so over here, Sylvia, there's shows like Dr. Oz, or he's always talking about different diets, and they're always talking about different compounds. They rarely discuss it as a polyphenol, but they'll have a show on green tea extract egcg, or they'll have a show on reservatrol. Or they'll do these different things. But these are all polyphenols. But what people don't understand is this complex science that you're an expert in, which is what I love, because I can sit with my patients, and explain to them why these these particular polyphenols whether in diet, we always ask everybody during their diet or through a supplement, do multiple things. And the tip of the iceberg is the potent antioxidant.Yeah, totally. Because the the oxidative startles then could lead to multiple diseases, that will be chronic diseases or chronic inflammation. So in this case, we can counteract a lot of problems. Systemic levels, or at local level.Now, the research when you when you teamed up with Michaela, had you been doing research on these polyphenols? Or did you take some of the research that Silva team had done with the animal studies? Because they've been involved with cattle in the wine industry for so many years? Was this? Was this a hard step to move from some of that research over to the data that we're going to talk about with your different studies?Well, they have a great experience with with animals, they were they are working with animals from 15 years, maybe more or less. But it's true. Try to start working with with humans is always different, because the information that we have in animals could have, but it's not a reality is not atranslate, just because it happens in an animal doesn't mean it will happen in a human.It's true. I wanted to say that. Okay, thank you. So, we're here, I started working with an in vitro system, just to study in the deep in the, in this Moore's more particles, because I wanted to know, how these molecules are acting and how they are metabolized. Because there are a lot of literature about tannins, but there, there still be big lack about the information because it's totally new this argument, this issue. So I first started working on the antioxidant activity of different extract. And then I proceeded to digest and ferment in vitro, just simulating that the digestion of the human body to try to drain to discover what's happening in our body when we intake tannins,so I'm sorry, no, no. Well, how long have you been then working with Mikayla and Sylvia team then because what I'm curious about is since you started doing your research, and kind of what your observation is, or how you've seen the world's view possibly change or be influenced by powerful studies regarding polyphenols and their benefits with health what what have you seen while you've been working with Michaela, and has the has the are people more receptive to that idea?Well, I started a six years ago, okay. And when I started, I have to be clear, I didn't know anything about tunings. I knew just the tunings about wine, wine, I'm Italian It was a total discover for me. Um, yeah. From my studies, I think that we discover a new product that could resolve a lot of problem. Above all, I think this is a great way discovered about InDesign. It is, I think the solution for all the problem, I don't know, maybe could be strange to understand. But I discovered a lot a lot of properties of time knees, because fundamentally, they have a prebiotic action. So they function like a fiber, they help our digestion, they can modulate the composition of our microbiota, and through that they can regulate our inflammatory status, our oxidative status, so it's perfect.I think that's so incredible, because what we always hear about is just the antioxidant potential. So here from a marketing standpoint, a lot of people try and sell supplements, they go, this is an antioxidant, this has the highest antioxidant capacity. What you have discovered in your research is, these beautiful large molecules do so much more than that, which you just touched on right there, which is it functions like a prebiotic, meaning that it feeds our own microbiome. And we know that when we have a diverse microbiome, you end up having a healthier body all around. So when I started treating my patients with our combination of the cabrito, and chestnut, and we were seeing incredible results, I knew what was happening in the short term when we were getting the bacteria, the bacterial overgrowth. That's why we developed it. But so many of my patients felt better and better while remaining on it. And now I can explain to them because of your research, what's actually going on. And that's what's so cool. And that's what's so neat that most of the research that is done and you've You know, this are done on smaller phenolic compounds, those ones that we talked about. So they always talk about the same ones over and over course, the 10 reservatrol curcumin those, you took a step back and said, Wait a minute, let's find out what happens when we look at these larger molecules. Definitely. And you use the really cool term because I'm going to start using this building blocks the molecules just a large building block. Yeah. Which is awesome. The when, before we get into your research there, I had to plow through trying to trying to prepare for a paper and some and a podcast of really big article called the immunomodulatory, anti inflammatory antioxidant effects of polyphenols a comparative review on the parental compounds and their metabolites. It's like a 50 page article where all they did is show that no every time you take one of these polyphenols, it does more and it gets broken down into more things. And it was like really thick. And then you I found your article, which do you have more questions? Because I think one of the coolestone of the things that you said that we've said on the show multiple times is you said the word prebiotic, and that's still not really a commonly used word here, at least in the States. Would you mind Silvia kind of explaining what you view is a prebiotic?Yeah. Normally people know that term probiotic. And sometimes there's like a mistake between pre and probiotics. So I could explain it a probiotic. It is like a strange this, our bacteria normally are beneficial bacteria that we can intake. Normally with yogurt or the products. A prebiotic is something that is before the bacteria. So if something is a substance, or for example, fibers that could act on the on the composition of our microbiota. So we are not going to change the composition of our microbiota by taking some external strain of bacteria, but we just want to moderate what we have with prebioticmakes sense. So basically, it's it's almost like the perfect food for the bacteria that we already have. Right? Yeah.If we give to our microbiota, like a good food to to grow well, right.What generally speaking since you've been doing research on this over here, probiotics. It's a massive industry. But just recently, a lot of data is coming out that probiotics probably don't do as much as we used to think, mainly because many of these probiotics that we purchase, don't make it to the colon where your microbiome is, what are with through your research? I'm just curious what your opinion is on probiotics in the use in humans? Well,I think that each person has his own microbiota, and each person needs a specific strain of probiotic. And it's so difficult to do that. Because normally, what we can find in the supermarket is like last bifidobacterium more lactobacillus but is so general, we don't know if that strain is the right strain for us. In the other way, it prebiotic always is good, because it's helping our our on microbiota. So we are going to solve the problem for sure. Well, and then there are other technical problems, for example, the probiotics are not so resistant. So sometimes we can intake a product with probiotics, but they don't have done work. So good.That makes sense.Yeah, that's we've we've done a little bit of research on this, my personal belief is, is that when, when we look at probiotics, we at least know that certain things like a spore based probiotics stays in the spore form. And there is clinical data to show that it can make it to the colon where then it wakes up. And if it's got the prebiotic like a polyphenol with it, the combination helps both of them improve the microbial diversity, or basically they work together.Actually, there's a paper that is in publication. So then I can send it to you. I always working with in vitro, they just send fermentation, I could demonstrate that the intake of tannins caught it improve the diversity of the of the microbiota.It's perfect. That is huge. Hey, out of curiosity, if this paper since you've been doing some of that research, is it possible that not only will the tenants improve the diversity, but will it help raise good bacteria and lower the type of bacteria that we know can create problems?Yeah, we have to know that tannins are really our molecules produced our secondary metabolites from plants. And these metabolites are produced from plants as defense. So these cues are produced to counteract the action of bad guys, such as bacteria, bad bacteria, or other other external factors. And and if we intake tennis is up in the same field. So they are able to detect the bad guys, the bad bacteria. And I don't want to say to kill them that reduce the amount or the activity. And the other part on the other part, they can increase the activity and the functionality of the code guy or the good bacteria.That is awesome. Nobody has said that before like that.No, they haven't. And in fact, it makes perfect sense, because it's not like and Sylvia said this earlier, it's normal for us to have reactive oxygen species, right. But in small amounts, what do tannins do, they keep us from having too much. So you're saying it's not eliminating all of the quote unquote, bad bacteria, it's more or less delivering balance, where we need balanceis a modulation.That's beautiful. It's allowing mother nature to do what it's what it wants to you. We hinted at it at the beginning of the show, but what happens in the pharmaceutical industry is they go, Oh, we want this molecule, let's make a drug out of this tiny molecule and not taking into account that when you give the body what it wants, it will use what it needs to make sure that it keeps you in balance.Yeah, I think that the great thing about the extra toe I'm working with from siba team is that they are Phyto complex. We are not working with just one specific molecule. We are working with a group of molecules so we have multiple action and multiple effect.Let's say you have I have a paper on this specifically and and it really, really piqued my interest. And the reason is because you illustrated and then essentially gave the How to on why a larger parent molecule, which basically would have more of these smaller polyphenols is actually what your body wants, because simply, it begins to pull apart the polyphenols as it needs to use them. Is that is that right? Is that how Am I understanding that correctly?Yeah, yeah, it's correct. and here we can find it another super characteristic often is because we can see that they could art at a local level in the InDesign as big molecule. And these big molecules are the molecules that are that are going into in contact with with a good microbiota. But when they are metabolized, they could give form to smaller metabolites. And these modern metabolites are the responsible doses possible of the systemic effects. Okay. They could pass them through the intestinal barrier, and then extra day they fashion and system 11 in the audience, there isn'tthat kind of what you called post biopsies. Soyeah, that's we're referring to those metabolites as post biotics. So it's the post biotic or the metabolites or the break? Absolutely. So can you do me a favor? I'm, can you explain, I don't know if you can see that. But your little summary, the diagram, but this is what's so cool. And this is what separates Silvia from everybody else, she developed this super eloquent model, can you explain what you did with this, because it's so neat. With in vitro digestion?Well, the in vitro digestion and fermentation are two basic steps. First of all, we have the digestion. In this case, we are mimicking what happened, what's happening in the mouse in the stone much and during this time, we mimic the temperature pH, enzymatic condition that we find in the in the mouth, and then in so much and then in time, okay, then what we obtain from the digestion we take apart, and we put it in contact with the microbiota within inoculum. And then we'll add a permanent state. And then from that, we obtain our sample that we are going to study. So from from these records, we have a resembling matters of that of the human digestion.So in your diagram, so cool, you mixed one to one in the oral phase with salivary fluid, salivary amylase at a certain pH, then you mix it in the gastric phase with gastric fluid pepsin. So a digestive enzyme at a certain Ph. And then in the intestinal phase, you mixed it with intestinal fluid, including pancreatic fluids, like trypsin, and bile, that's fantastic. So all three phases of digestion, then you separated those, and you took one of them, and then you fermented it, to show what happens in the colon.So this part is very important, which is is important to us. And we wrote a paper, I think, in a few days will be published in, in natural protocols.That's incredible. So then you took this fermented you first of all, you took the digestion part, and then you analyze that and then you took the fermented part, you analyzed it, when you say analyzed it, what did you do to analyze it?Well, we could perform every type of analysis, I dedicated my studies about the antioxidant activity of of tannins, just to see how can the digestion and then the fermentation could affect the antioxidant activity exerted by by by tannins, and then I try to understand how these big molecules could be metabolized by our body. So how the structures could be affected by the action of the enzyme enzymes or digestive enzymes and then how these molecules could be affected by the action of the gut microbiota.Okay. Makes sense. So essentially, she was just trying to show the what's going to happen all the way through the entire phase of having a polyphenol.Yeah. Which is so cool because nobody has done this yet, looking at the literature, this is the one thing that I've wanted to see for so long. What happens with these large tannins through digestion and through fermentation? So after fermentation? What did you notice? Like What Did you see when these large building blocks were digested and then fermented?Well, after digestion, and it was a bit surprising that the large molecules, they're still there. But then, after the action of that gut microbiota, we could have said that a lot of small molecules a small metabolized were forming, thanks to the action of the of the of the bacteria bacteria. Okay. Yeah. So we could see the formation of smaller molecules, typical from the idealized Bhutanese or from the combat standings. So we will see an increase in the presence of Corsetti in a gcg, galley kassig, or ellagic acid.This is this is awesome, because just not to veer far. But right now stateside, what people are hearing about on podcast trying to find solutions for people maybe who can't get access to a vaccine, or they have difficulty because they're overly exposed to public, they're getting lots of guidance on utilizing certain polyphenols, like course attended cetera, to function as zinc on a force. But what I'm hearing you say is that you can actually still get that same course. And they'll have your body disassemble a much larger parent molecule or parent poly phenol. Yeah. And your body will essentially pull apart exactly as much as it needs. Is that right?Yeah.Can you do that?Yes, no, no, it's fine. I What I'm saying is, is that your what you illustrated in here, you were able to find these metabolites of the bacteria was able to make use of the poly phenol. Yeah, some of those included the corset in which, over here stateside, now people are hearing about corsten. And its ability to help people with antiviral activity. And what I'm hearing you say, from your research, you can actually get plenty of course it in by having a larger poly phenol that actually has it inside. Is that right?Yeah, actually, we know that our extracts for use from from Suba team are very effective for antiviral activity. And we started to with a big trial clinical trial in Argentina, and what does is trying to give a supplement to COVID patients. And we have the first results, we don't have all the results, but we have the first results about that. And we could have served at first that the passion supplemented with tunings Beside that, then the typical therapy registered and a decrease of the inflammatory status, we registered the crease of for example of some indicators like TNF alpha.That sounds very familiar. And again,very, very, very familiar. Still doing what's really interesting is that this is the first time that anybody has discussed the fact that over here, there's lots of supplements, and the supplements are Oh, get this green tea extract, oh, get this ellagic acid, which will help produce your alisson get this course written. And so I have so many patients that have 20 different bottles in front of them. And they're doing this and then when we realize that no, once again, that's almost a smaller version of what the pharmaceutical companies are doing. It's like, Oh, this molecule was studied here. So I'm gonna go buy that molecule. But when you give the large stable molecule, Mother Nature's secret weapon, then your microbiome will kick off these smaller molecules like this corseted. Now, something that's interesting, I did reference that first study that was really thick. What they did is they did, they did mass spec on these different polyphenolic compounds, including reservatrol, including quercetin and including tumeric. And what they showed is those are poorly absorbed, and they end up having to be broken down also. So it isn't like taking the smaller molecule is a shortcut, it still has to go. The beauty of using a large tannin like this is the prebiotic effect which improves the microbial spectrum. And then the broader the microbial spectrum, the more of these beneficial, smaller phenolic compounds are going to get 100%.And this is just like a bi directional relationship between tannins and microbiota because tannins in some way, we could say that feed the microbiota as prebiotic, by then the other way that that feed, the Fed microbiota is going to metabolize them.A bi directional relationship bi directional relation tannins and by the micro. Yeah, it makes sense. They need each other.Yeah. Frequently, I think of tannins in the microbiome, like the bidirectional relationship that Eric and I have in our friendship. Yeah, I need him he needs me.If it weren't for him, bringing AGI patients, I would just be putting people to sleep for nothing.Yeah, they would just go to sleep and nobody was doing anything. This is what's so cool about this is can you just explain really quick, just so that people don't take your word for it yet, you ended up doing some pretty cool chemistry to determine what molecules were there. So what did you do when you did the fermented how you were able to show that quarter 10 was kicked off that your lifting was kicked off that egcg was kicked offwhat I had to perform before an extraction of the polyphenols. And when I had the sample, I perform an analysis on a uplc ms. That is a huge instrument that allows our allow us to identify exactly every single molecules.So the detectable so she had definitive proof that they were there.That's awesome. Right there. I'm looking at her mask. Right there. Got it in the article.Mass Spectrometry. Yeah,yes. I love that. That is what's that's the thing that I think is going to be the biggest game changer understanding that through your science, really, you can get these other beneficial products through one parent molecule, the building block. And that's what I try to tell my patients like, Well, why don't we take the largest, most stable tannins, right, put them together? And then as you take that, that will not only feed your microbiome, but you'll also produce these other things. And then the metabolites, the other metabolites like, oh, short chain fatty acids?Yeah. Because we don't have us only just the metabolites deriving from the receptors of the big structures. We also have the other secondary metabolites that arise from the action of microbiota. We know from my researches and from other scientific literature, that tan is good in us both microbiota to produce short chain fatty acids. These small molecules are so important for us because they exert a lot of activities, they will be absorbed, and they their main activity is an anti inflammatory effect. But also they are super important for them. Past military maintenance of the sad part of what leaving what been leaving for this house. Yeah,I mean, we're basically on about item number 17. on why polyphenols daily are critically important. And Silvia put it in here in a paper that anybody can read. I mean, this is awesome. 100%, when when you did this article, this is the thing I've been trying to explain to patients for so long. And you showed it very eloquently here, you also have another published study, which is pretty eloquent in itself. And this one is a little bit more related to the thing that we're both very passionate about, which is the brain gut access. Yeah, my my goal as a physician, eventually is to make it so that we protect the brains of people we know that inflammation results in all kinds of different diseases. And you actually published a paper as the lead author, polyphenols in dementia from molecular basis to clinical trials. How did you decide to do How did you decide to do a review article on dementia? That's really cool. That's right in our wheelhouse also, definitely.Well, at the moment, I was working in a lab in Italy. They were specializing in dementia, and they wanted to publish something about about that, and they proposed me to write a paper. And I think that I had inside already that the love for pony feels. At the moment I was working with polyphenols of grapefruit,grapefruit. Oh, yeah.So I started searching something and then I just decided that it's dementia and polyphenols, I started to find a lot of source. So interesting literature and then I could find also clinical trial. So I decided to construct the paper from the molecular basis to explain exactly what's happening and its molecular level until to the clinical trials. What happens in the passions?Well, it's a it's a powerful piece, because essentially, you're outlining that somebody who has had dementia, it's probably have long exposures to inflammation. And then in the paper, you're essentially showing how or why I guess polyphenols are critical.So So in this particular paper, you were looking at the literature. So this was a review. So the literature that was available, looked at those different molecules that were already talking about reservatrol, curcumin and things, and I have to I love how you address this head on you said that the bioavailability of curcumin tumeric, which everybody talks about all the time is very low, because it is poorly absorbed and rapidly metabolized them eliminate and eliminate it. Here one study that talked about this, you go in to describe how reservatrol has very low bioavailability. Everything that you're talking about is exactly what this other article did, where it showed that even these smaller phenolic compounds do that. So we know that there's evidence to show that this can help in dementia. How does it help in dementia, though, let's just so when in your review, how did you figure out that it helped to prevent dementia or assist those people with dementia?What the mechanisms are with are always the same. First of all, we have the antioxidant activity and anti inflammatory activity. What I can say now, after some years, I could say that could be related also to the modulation of the microbiota, because we know that almost 70% of the immune system is in the in dangerous time. Okay, so by regulating the microbiota, by maintaining maintaining a good status in the intestine, and reducing the inflammation there, we could then regulate also the inflammation all over the body and also reducing for sure, the inflammation that can lead to dementia. So it's everything is related.So she used some pretty common terms that you and I have talked about quite a bit, right. Um, thing about Oh, NF Kappa beta. Yeah. CRP lippo, polysaccharides cyclooxygenase. pathway. So that is that definitely summarizes Do we have this thing, open that up real quick, like Sophia, this is what Eric and I did last time. That's all about inflammation and polyphenols and where they help.Yeah, so we I, I drew first and then we realized how bad it was. So we found a young child, a kindergartener walking down the street, better than I did, so we paid them to do this. So it's done by some children.It was another one of those bi directional relationships.bi directional relationship. So this is this is so exciting. Here's why you're doing research, you have shown that the cause of dementia is actually due to inflammation, which we talk about all the time, all the time, diseases, inflammation, cause of cancers inflammation, we have, I have a lot of friends that participate in a lot of combat sports. I have a lot of friends that are former football players. So I have this whole community of people that have had traumatic brain injuries, which I think could really benefit from stuff like this. We know that because of the diet, people have a pro inflammatory diet correct. And you know, when we look at this, that the group of people that I treat a lot are people that have intestinal inflammation through bacterial overgrowth, poor diet, one of the most common things that they talk about or if I asked them is brain fog, or fatigue or anxiety. Yeah. And now we knowthe reason I found in nature tour I can I can send it to you to interesting papers talking about some products that have been developed with tannins for the productivity for the mentality. Oh, Gordon, explain why but I guess it we could do it.But I mean, isn't that something though, they probably stumbled upon it. Not really knowing. And quite honestly, it's your review and some of your other research that's starting to show people the why, which is critically important. Why, you know, why does someone want to do what it is that we're doing with polyphenols and Sylvia's? Honestly, paving the way on on the why it's very powerful.we all we all have heroes. Sylvia, you're my hero, you are proving the things that that we have been trying to I've been trying to explain to my patients. And then now I can go low. I'll refer you to this article. This is why this is also why I think it's important to have a good diet, but also the long term strategy of the longer that you allow your body to access these tannins. Definitely the more your microbial diversity, the more you will block the inflammatory cascade. Yeah,well, inflamed inflammation long term is not an overnight thing. So in order to repair our bodies, you need to consume healthy polyphenols for a long period of time. And then your body gets used to having the tools that it needs to provide your body with the short chain fatty acids or the Euro lessons or the course it cetera, for you to repair and control inflammation it makes, it makes a lot of sense.Yeah, totally.Okay, Sylvia, so I had, I did clinic this morning, and I have a series of patients, and I told them, I said, Don't worry, I'm having one of the smartest scientists in the entire world on the show today. This is an interesting thing, because of your research, I think we can help some of these people. I have a series of patients that have had their colons taken out for various diseases, either, that, for whatever reason, they have no colon. So now they have no microbiome. So now, in fact, I had a patient. My last patient said something really interesting to me. She loves she loved taking artron teal, she said she'd never felt better. And then due to some adverse events, she has an ileostomy so that she's not connected to her colon. And she said today, she's like, I just don't I don't get it. I'm not feeling as good as I used to. And I'm like I do. Because we're not, we're not breaking these down. We're not fermenting them in the way that they should be. So my task to you, how do we develop something for people that do not have the capability of fermenting foods, tannins, prebiotics, to have these beneficial to handle this opportunity to decrease the inflammatory cascade? What do you what pops in your mind of how we can figure something out for these people that don't have access to the microbiome? Am I saying that right?Well, just to understand your question, you are meaning don't have access to microbiome in the senate don't have a white coat microbiota, orno, they have had their colons removed completely. No, yeah. So no large intestine Yeah.Okay. Okay.One of ourone of our prior guests, one of our prior guests, Angie, she said, You got to figure this out with I'm gonna call you Dr. Sylvia. Because you're you're almostyou can go me almost doctorWell, does he go Tada, Silvia de la luna Casa gasi. Dora, that's almost doctor, I'm catchingup.No, but it's something with with your with your research that shows that people with a colon will have a a more beneficial response to prebiotics and to these polyphenols. So is it possible that fermenting them first and then giving that as an absorbablethis could be a possibility. We called what the product should be developed. But it's, it's okay. We could do it in laboratory The name of this product are post biotic as we were saying before, sure. So we could generate directed the metabolites from from Danny's from the big structures in laboratory by fermenting them with an old microbiota outside the body. And then give the to the patient the post biotic so all the fermented Tell the lightsbe interesting to at least try. Because if without having the colon, you have to kind of wonder though, if the passage is quite the same when it comes to only having a small battle. That makes sense.It's extremely, it's extremely complex, and we're seeing it more and more. And so I'm just wondering how, you know, figuring something like this is it's a small community.I can't hear you anymore.Oh, that's because he was on mute. I'm sorry. Well, I was just saying that it is a small community, but people that it's insult to injury, if you have a disease, ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, a severe dysmotility, whatever, and you have your colon taken out? That's hard enough. Yeah. And then from then on, how do you make sure that you are able to produce these metabolites, which decrease your inflammatory pathway? Sure.And you need them systematically?Yeah. It's just something that I dealt with this morning. And I said, I have the person has the answer. How long do you think it'll take you to develop this product? And then get it back to me so that I can start helping my patients? I told him, I told him about a week. Yeah, cuz gosee looked at I Silvia can do anything.As soon as I finish my thesis, I can start with the project.And nothing doesn't do it at all. Well,this is exciting. This is super cool. Yeah. Sylvia, your your research is incredible. I think that you're just getting warmed up, I think that you have shined a light in an area that many of us can start looking at and start talking about in a very scientific way. And it isn't just Oh, go out and buy this marketing product over here. We want to we want to educate people through science. And that's what you're doing over here. So 100, right.And I just think it's so cool that you are able to where people are already turning to polyphenols, and we mentioned ecgc and in quercetin before, and we've all been trying to compete on how do we get our body to use these nice, awesome poly phenol molecules. And really, you just took a step back and said, Guys, you really want this bigger one. Because by using this bigger poly phenol, your body is actually going to get a better bioavailability of everything that you think that you need. And it's, it's, it's awesome. And it put it into practice. And quite honestly, this is a theme that we've seen before, over and over and over again, where we tried to give women who are who are in need of a folic acid, and they put folic acid in a little, a little pill. So they're while they're pregnant, that they don't have, you know, some some birth defects. But the truth is your body wants full eight, not necessarily folic acid. So once again, it's it's the bigger molecule that it's natural that your body wants. And what you did is you just basically took that same science and just blasted it into polyphenols. I think it's awesome.We're going to, we're going to get you hooked up, we had a meeting with the author of the cert diet, which in your article, you actually describe how these polyphenols were turned on the sirtuin pathway as well. And so that is a whole nother aspect of almost an epigenetic process that goes on with it. But the other really cool thing is you talked about how these polyphenols increased nitric oxide both Eric and I like to exercise so we take our polyphenols for the nitric oxide capability. So all right, Cassie dotata Silvia does Michaela let you do anything. What do you like to do for fun when you're not always working on your thesis?You You talked to us?Because that's because I'm speaking Spanglish. gasi Dr. Sylvia? Yeah.Are Spanish or English.We, I want to know does other than working on your thesis and working from a Khaleda? What do you like to do for fun?This is my phone.My phone?Well, I in my free time, I'm an athlete. I'm a triathlete. Oh,yeah. Are you taking your polyphenols while you train and recover?Working on me to develop new supplements with Thomas.Oh, look at that. Nice. Yeah.Yeah, they are so useful. So for first of all to people, because for sports that requires a lot of exercise like triathlon for example. The the body is always always trust and the development of oxidative stress and inflammation is huge. So We are used to take just supplements with carbohydrates or proteins they are giving us just micronutrients but they are not thinking about macronutrients or polyphenols, some some molecules that could help us to reduce the fatigue and to help us to recovery.What's the most challenge? What's the most challenging event that you've done in a triathlon? Have you done like an Iron Man orI'm sorry to interrupt you soyou can fit those in a little bit quicker to understand.I come from autism I before when when I was young, I was a sprinter. So for me, an Olympic distance of triathlon is just like a mortal now.I think that your research is really important because Eric tried doing some triathlons also. And he understood the power of polyphenols. But the only one that he had read about was reservatrol. So he was drinking wine the entire time that he was doing the triathlondata, remember?Before to cycle in, it's not the road.Well, I don't remember any of it. So it's okay.Well, Sylvia, thank you so much for joining the gacek project. This is exactly what I wanted to talk about. You did an incredible job. Your your research is amazing. And I feel like you're just getting warmed up. I feel like she's going to continue to uncover a lot of different things.Yeah, what an awesome show to have you join us and and for all of you as a gut check project, like normal, we will put Sylvia's research in the show notes so that if you would like to see her own articles yourself or some of the others that they can reference. That way, you know, that we're not just we're not just speaking, it's, there's there's lots of powerful information in here. And I just can't thank you enough Sylvia, for making time to hop on with us today. It'sbeen it's been awesome. And if you're, if you're listening to this, as always, you know, share this with people, it's super important information that this is an incredible opportunity to have somebody like sylviane explaining this intricate science. So if you know somebody that has intestinal health problems, if the autoimmune problems, inflammation, possibly risking dementia, things like that, this is really important stuff that they all need to hear,definitely. Or if you think that you're in the market for trying some type of new polyphenol or course it's in or you're going to green tea to get ecgc maybe just reconsider re listen to this particular episode. And I think that we can help you with artron to find a much better larger poly phenol, that Believe it or not, Silvia here has researched thoroughly. She knows it very, very well. So,Sylvia, can we be can we be a sponsor for your next triathlon? I'll try to just give her the whole logos everywhere. AndI think that the corporate office is gonna love the fact that you've already committed so I guess we'reworking for my new uniform so we can talk about it. Oh, I'msorry. I think we're a little mistake. Oh, and I mean, sponsor, the only sponsors we get are people that actually get tattoos.Yeah, yeah, you we. He wants to give you a tattoo of altro until it's kind of a permanent sponsorship.That's awesome, Sylvia. So much. Hey, don't hang up yet. But everyone else thank you so much for joining. Gotcha project number 49. And like I said, we'll make everything available to everything else to answer it.No, I'm just loving it. Loving everything. I thought it would be. All right.Thank you all very much, Silvia. Don't go anywhere. Bye bye.

0:01  Hey, gut check project fans and KB MD health family. This is Eric, I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. And this is Episode 48. I don't have a clue what we're gonna talk about.0:12  Well, I think that Okay, so if you did not see Episode 47, we put a lot of work into that one. Yeah, we've gotten a ton of great feedback on that. And it's just the beginning, because because of that episode, we've been contacted by a lot of other scientists, a lot of people. And we're gonna be having a really special PhD on to describe her research soon. And it's, you know, thankfully, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's0:34  really, really cool. We actually got a lot of feedback not only in the traditional sense, thank you all for who've been emailing in and messaging. But the two patients who came through and watched it right before we scoped them, I was impressed to how many of them tried to do what you did to me and made me list everything out. And so that was that was pretty interesting. So0:53  just a recap of 47 it was important because we've uncovered a lot of important research showing how the polyphenols like polyphenols in atrantil can actually help your innate immune system. And it's, it's the tip of the iceberg because I've been contacted by out both allergist epidemiologists, some PhDs going wow, that is exactly what my research is in. I'd like to talk about it more.1:16  What about just this morning, we had that discussion with somebody over in the UK who is specifically utilizing guess what polyphenols for athletes and elite athlete training. Never met the guy before has an incredible program. What do you think of that? Oh, that's1:31  great. It's actually Aiden Goggins. And he he wrote the cert diet, which is the I believe it's the diet that Adele lost all her weight on and it's all about the benefit of polyphenols turning on these sirtuin pathways. He's he agreed to come on the show also great guy super smart. That was awesome hanging out with him this morning. So what's going on with you? Let's let's get let's make this more casual this time. The last couple of podcasts have been so intense with the immune system and stuff. Let's change it up a little.1:56  Yeah, man. I chatted with gage this morning. He scores out of tech he's loving School, which is great. And you know he's he's enjoying his time as a freshman. His most college kids who are freshmen should be doing Mack is in midseason basketball. He loves it. He just He scored his 106 point where this basketball team is last week. He's super pumped about that. Okay,2:20  let's let's clarify that. So he scored his 106 documented point or he scored the 106 I2:25  scored the 106 which is the high watermark for his current code. That's awesome. That's awesome joints. He joins his brother who was the first person to push a coach over 1002:34  Yes, that's awesome. So the reader brothers doing proper to the basketball team.2:39  Their dad's terrible. I know. I got a shiner got a little shiner. Here you go look at the camera here. Yeah, look at the mirror image of me. Yeah, we're doing little remodeling on the house. And unfortunately, the middle of the night I tripped over a box and face planet. So as I was telling my patient I walked in and we're gonna put him to sleep. And he's like, Whoa, Doc, he's like, do a get a little tussle. And I'm like, no. And he's like, well, it'll probably only affect your modeling career for a bit. And I'm like, Well, I'm actually a hand model. So that's why I protected myself with my face. Yeah, why don't you show that fingerand see how good of a handball you are?3:16  Well, I played I play the before picture and all hand model. A bunch of Orthopedic Surgeons jabbed me they're like, hey, yeah, can I use that in an ad?3:26  I specialize in ring finger. Yeah. We're gonna straighten it out.3:32  Oh, guess what I signed up for what? I signed up for the Wim Hof breathing. Wow, awesome. I'm doing the Wim Hof if you don't know who Wim Hof is, he's this crazy guy that has this incredible breathing course which we're gonna talk about that I read. I read James nesters book called breath, the site the lost science, and everything is all over there. Oh, dude, it's because we're all just like, Whoa, you can change your life by breathing. And that's what the Wim Hof Method is just breathe. And it's so I've been doing this every morning for we're going on two weeks now. And the problem is it also involves cold exposure. So every morning instead of waking up and doing my Yani coffee and warm hot shower, I'm breathing a ton and then jumping into a cold shower so we'll see4:16  feedback on it. Okay, well, just real quick, since I don't know where we're going with today's show. I'm just gonna go ahead and ask is this one of those things from Wim Hof where he is having you breathe in at a certain interval breathe out a certain interval so that you can achieve something and then it can you can you shed a little light on them?4:32  Yeah. So the Wim Hof Method in a nutshell is a cyclical breathing where you, you over inflate and then you exhale to atmospheric pressure. So you go above atmospheric pressure to atmospheric pressure. You do this in a cyclical way, almost like a wave and you train yourself to breathe in a cyclical way. And what that does is that increases your oxygen saturation of the cells decreases your co2, and I know where you're going because last time we I started talking about putting physiology, we ended up doing a whole podcast on that. Check out COVID episode three or four. But what that does is that actually raises your pH because the co2 retention will increase the pH. Okay. So in this book, in breath, I got really into that because we realized that in our stress society and the more stressed you are, we tend to shallow rapid breathe, which actually is the improper way to do it. So when you want to relax, you breathe six seconds in six seconds out, that should be the proper tempo. This is a different method. This is to supercharge your parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system interesting. And then you do 30. In this case, you can do like 30 cycles of this. really deep breathing and then it on number 30, you exhale, and you hold your breath. So you and you time it and it's really funny because I'm following him on the course. And he's this very, he's been on Rhonda Patrick show and always been a me Joe Rogan. And everybody and so he's so funny, because he's the same all the time. I think he's always Wim Yeah. And so he's been on Ben Greenfield and stuff. And so he's, you know, you feel like this bond, because I'm like, holding my breath. And he's like, it's okay. You're good. You can do longer. You're,6:12  I mean, the guy is a physical walking experiment. He's done everything, especially when it comes down to this controlled breathing situation.6:19  Yeah, he holds like 20 world records and stuff. Yeah, but but it's all but it's all based off science. It's not like and that's what he tries to tell everybody. He's like, anybody can do this. So that's what I'm, that's what I'm going to experiment. We'll6:28  see if I can interesting. I'm curious how how they're explaining to lay people because that's probably what this is written for. From lay people all the way down to the science. So maybe that would be a topic that we will get into after you experiment with it a6:40  little bit. Yeah, 6:40  I'm really interested. 6:41  But we want to keep this episode light. Okay, this is just gonna be a fun, easy episode. Or we're just gonna relax. Gosh, I was sitting there with Dr. Ackerman in the office. And I got a quick question for you. Because uh6:56  have a quick question for me after talking to Steve6:57  Yeah, okay. Because it says cuz Stu, and I kind of disagreed on something. And I was like, Are you insane? We got in this discussion about carbonated water and he actually likes Waterloo over Bella VB. Like more like I couldn't even believe it. I'm like, Are you insane? Okay, well, wait, who's7:15  insane? He's insane for liking for liking Waterloo.7:18  Like how can you like Waterloo? Over Bell v. I mean, it's a apparently, well,7:25  I never questioned the fact that you are a doctor until right now. Because apparently, Stu is on the right side of history. And you're on the wrong side of history. 7:33  How can you even say that? I mean, the bubbles in this are more effervescent, the flavoring is better. I mean, I have7:40  a feeling that you're way more prepared for this talk than me. I'm just going to tell you that Waterloo kicks ass. Because I think Waterloo labor looks really cute7:48  is delicious. We can argue about this calories,7:50  no sugar. I don't know how many of these are crusher day, but I think they're awesome.7:55  I don't want to spend this whole podcast arguing about which carbonated beverage is better? I do I do have a real question for you. Okay, because I was totally forgot this. And I know that you and I've done this. Would you mind explaining to me? Because I know you're really like theoretical mathematics. Can you explain to me again, the Yang Mills existence and mass gap in mathematics?8:15  I would but it would take way too long. Okay.8:17  So I mean, you're super smart. And I realized that that would normally be just like a no brainer. I don't want to tell you that Yang Mills I love not being patronized back. Alright, so the whole reason for that set up. Was I I've been talking to a lot of patients and a lot of patients that have had COVID are having lingering symptoms and brain fog and things like that. And so you call them the the long haulers. Well, I see that all the time, because we see that people that have gut inflammation, end up having other things going on. So I was like, wow, you know, what, what, what is happening there? And then I started going down a little rabbit hole and Angie and I looking up articles and then you know, found this article where we thought Oh, when we initially when COVID first came out, it's like oh COVID infects the brain. And then I think you and I even discussed the possibility of the vagus nerve being a conduit where viruses can get up and it was all theory and everything. And so then I started thinking Wait a minute, if we end up with all these long hollers, what's the effect on the brain and then on the effect on the brain, I went down a little rabbit hole. And then I'm like, Well, wait a minute. If we end up with lots of neuro inflammation, how does that impact our psychiatric help?9:34  Health health? Yeah,9:35  because I'm, I really believe that we're gonna end up in another pandemic. So many people are suffering from depression and anxiety. And we may end up you may end up in a situation where if you had this infection, you could end up having a little bit more anxiety, OCD, different things. And so neuroinflammation then that got me thinking, Wait a minute, how does how will this affect spouses and families and things? Because divorce rates through the roof and I'm like, What if whoa, wait a minute, what if all this inflammation and the stress is leading to psychiatric changes, but not even something really tangible that you can sit there and label a DSM for diagnosis on? What if it actually affects your cognitive ability? And so then,10:20  let me just stop there. How could it not?10:22  Right? Totally agree, except this is this is a podcast where we try and make sense of things. Sure, that that are like that. So that's the rabbit hole that I went down. And now I'm going to bring it back. So what's interesting is I did I do want to discuss one article that looked at damage in dissected brains and people that died of COVID. Okay, and it's not as straightforward as you think. Okay. And then I started thinking, well, if there's the inflammation that's there, then I found an article that actually discusses neuro inflammation, psychiatric illness, followed by here's what happens in our brain when we disagree. And ultimately ending up on disagreeing takes up a lot of mental real estate. So that was a really long setup to ask you a mathematic question, to pretend like I tied up your brain arguing over carbonated water. I'm sorry. I was trying to figure out how to set up how we're gonna talk about today's episode, which is all about the brain. Okay. It's all about neuro inflammation, the brain and the fact that we're still in the middle of this pandemic. It really wasn't to bring you on the show and argue about water and then ask you a theoretical math question that I just googled 30 seconds before we came on the air11:35  live is fine. I'm just glad that I wasn't up for the challenge, either.11:39  You would have freaked me out if you would have noticed.11:42  It is would have been a random Google experience to be interesting. So if I understood what you just said that you're saying that we we probably waste far too many resources metabolically and over our brain trying to disagree with someone. Well, it's Yeah,11:58  that But let's get back to the inflammatory process. Okay, Episode 47 was the innate immune system. And it makes sense why we have all this inflammation. So I guess what I'm saying is, let's prepare ourselves for the possibility that more than the usual number of people may be behaving in a way that they may not, or they may behave an extreme way, because I just heard a podcast this morning on med cram, that he was discussing that an article came out on the online version of ama, where they were looking at these, they surveyed, like a bunch of 170 people, and a shockingly high number had residual symptoms, three to six months after actually being diagnosed with COVID. And of this group, they were all really mild. And so what, what we're now realizing is, is that we may end up having a lot of these young people that had really mild COVID end up having symptoms of they're just fatigued. Brain fog is super common. Sure. shortness of breath, it's common. Sure. So I think that we need to start preparing for this, I guess, is what I'm getting not only preparing for, here's, here's something that we don't know. So you just said three to six months. I mean, the the full on onset of COVID, still wasn't even one year ago. So if we're looking at that number, there, we're not even looking at like a threshold for this to end, right. Because we don't know that yet. There's not enough time has passed. We're saying three and six months, because that may just be as long as that infection has existed for13:32  that number of people. 100%. So13:34  let's jump into these articles. But I like where you're going with this. Because this is what I want to do is prepare for what makes sense of things before it actually happens. I'm actually quite proud of something. And I've heard this from several people that whatever, nine months ago when we did COVID one and two, I'm sure yeah, we actually still stood the test of time. Yeah. Because one of my friends was actually talking about this, the fact that he's hearing he's going back and having fun looking at podcasts at the beginning. And now it seems absurd the things that were saying, and I got scared. I was like, we're totally absurd. And we were actually pretty pretty spot on.14:10  Yeah, but I mean, I think quite honestly, in a lot of this has to do with the way that people who've communicate with us we, what we approach it isn't politically motivated. It's, I think that we're trying to always lean on what research says, and what research means. And so you can actually filter off, sometimes the stuff that's just noise. And that's what we try not to do here is deliver noise, we want to see if we can bring some context to what we think is real.14:37  So what I would like to do is let's talk about this and let's look at this from a future neuro inflammatory process. And it all comes down to one thing that we've said a million times on this show inflammation. Sure. All right, so the first article that I came across, and these are all obviously very recent articles, some of them just a few days ago actually. Study uncovers blood vessel damage and inflammation in COVID-19 patient brains, but no infection. So this is a surprise that they did an in depth study and how COVID-19 affects patients brains, and they consistently spotted hallmarks of what they consider damage in an MRI while the patient was living, okay. And then they ended up taking a sample of 19 patients that actually died, and then they did an autopsy on them, okay, assuming that they would find necrosis clots. Because we've been talking about clots during this, oh, you're gonna have these thrombosis factor five lied and gets kicked in, and then you're gonna have you know, clots happen. And so what they found was now the exact opposite was happening in these brains. What they did is they found these bright spots contain blood vessels that were thinner than normal blood vessels. Yeah, they gave up integrity, didn't they, they gave up integrity, they had leaky vessels. And this appeared to leak proteins, like fibrinogen, the brain, which triggered an immune reaction locally, sure. microglial cells, these spots were surrounded by the innate immune system T cells trying to control it. And what that ended up happening was that the brain's own immune cells, tried to shut this down, created inflammation, which ultimately led to the neuro inflammation seen on these MRIs.16:20  Yeah.16:21  So the fascinating thing about that is controlling the inflammation may have prevented these lesions from forming. That's not why these patients died. But it does give us insight as to why people will be having brain fog in the future.16:33  Without question, then guess what? That processes, even though it's specific right now about COVID-19? These things cycling out of control that that's not new, though, right? I mean, people have had these kind of problems before. And it's just like you said, it all goes down to inflammation. So what can we do to help control inflammation that doesn't get out of control?16:54  So what you just said, This isn't new? Yeah, you're exactly right. An article in 2013, in the Journal of neuro inflammation, shows that there are multiple lines of evidence to support the pathogenic role of neuro inflammation in psychiatric illness. why that's important is because neuro inflammation can lead and then they go on to describe all these psychiatric illnesses. Now, one of my friends had a recent zoom, 50th birthday parties, a football player and some other football players were on there. And so, you know, you start looking at all these, the players that played a career in that, and that's what I was thinking. I was like, you know, neuroinflammation, how do we protect all these? And then I started thinking about, you know, veterans and things like that. Looking at this article, we've known that inflammation does this for a very long time. So I'm like, well, recently, let's see what's happened. Let's see if they tied it to very specific diseases, do a Google Scholar shirts, and you will see that there's a link between neuro inflammation and depression, aggression, fatigue, obsessive compulsive disorder, addiction, anger, chronic pain, all of it. The the scientists return to today, he checks inflammatory markers in his athletes. Yeah, he trains a lot of MMA fighters, a lot of pro boxers and things,18:09  guess what he's checking, TNF alpha, interleukin six.18:14  So we already know from prior podcasts that eating functional foods will help with inflammation. So what I want to do is take a different turn. And like I was kind of prepping, let's prepare for the possibility that we may be dealing with more people that have neuro inflammation. So how do you handle it, there may be more mental illness coming towards us. Sure. And mental illness can be a spectrum, mental illness just might be a few. If you've ever suffered from anxiety, even a little bit of anxiety that that can incapacitate you. And that goes all the way to complete debilitating, OCD or schizophrenia and things. And it looks like it's all coming down to inflammation, let alone now we're just talking about the short term, let alone dementia, Parkinson's, and so on, which is, once again, inflammation is the cause of that.19:09  Yeah, absolutely. And I like that at the very beginning, you were at the very beginning. But about a minute and a half ago, you were talking about how do we protect these people like you saw on Jr's zoom call? But also, what do you do for those who are sustaining an assault right now or inflammation right now to heal them to help bring them back? Because I think it's both of those things. Let's say that someone's having an anxious problem, long term anxiety. Do you really think that having a long term poor diet along with that is going to help them with their mental state and recover it's not you still have to give your body the tools to give it I mean, a mechanic can only fix the car with the tools and you have to give your body the tools to help your brain heal.19:55  So when you have inflammation, there's a possibility that you are Maybe have a little more anger, which could lead to arguments. So now let's get into the physiology of arguing. I mean, I could see how heated you got when I was insulting Waterloo there. And I know. So this is a study that actually was published in in the Journal of nature and neuroscience. Basically what they did is they looked at people during an argument, right, and they tried to see what actually goes on. And so in a heated disagreement, generally speaking, you may lose respect for the person that you're talking to, you know, whether it's about something real heated or whatever, but if you're passionate about it, you will lose respect and whether you feel appreciated or not, a lot of times what is described as that the other person is ignoring them, or they feel ignored. And so there's a concept here where you're passionate about your thing, I'm passionate. When when I walk out of the room, I feel like I've been ignored, like you have not heard anything, and you feel the exact same way. And then there may be some truth to that. There could be Did you ever wonder what's going on in the other person's brain that could explain that? So understanding when you're looking at somebody, and you're like, I'm talking but you don't really seem like you're hearing me?21:12  Can I kind of guess on what you heard this may be going? Sure. So as a as a younger person engaging in an argument, I oftentimes would find myself, let's say that you and I were having a true disagreement. And that your your first approach to me was to tell me why you felt something that I was doing, or that I thought was completely wrong. So the first thing I hear is, he doesn't like what it is. And while you're talking and making that point, I'm really just fortifying my position. Really not even listening to anything that you would have said, however, as a, as an older adult, I would imagine, and you learn this as a parent to really go to the child or the person you have a disagreement with. And try to find an area where we already agree or even compliment the other person. So that you're really beginning to build a bridge and make it look like your point of disagreement is you're arriving at it that there's a problem that we have together.22:14  That is correct. From the top. Okay, now let's talk about what's actually going on in the brain that leads to that. Okay, so to get to that point, so that you can take control of it. So have you ever been in a heated argument? All right. So what they did is they took 21 pairs of volunteers, and they asked them to make financial decisions, decisions in particular, they each had to assess the value of real estate, then they had to bet money on there a second. All right, so each volunteer, terrible, I know, each volunteer laid in a brain imaging scanner while performing the tasks, so that the scientists could record and the volunteers had to agree on the price of real estate. If they agreed, each of them became more confident, and they bet more money on it. Which makes sense, because that's the tribalism if you affirm what I'm believing Well, yeah, we're both right. Are you kidding me? You need to buy some GameStop.Yeah, then we get really excited.23:27  I love this Reddit group.23:29  That's, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. So stop and think what Reddit is, when you do a sub group, you've already positioned yourself in a tribe. And when you say something, and you get up voted, you're just like affirming exactly what's going on. So that's totally cool. So I agree with you that I'm more sure that I must be right. Now what's going on is the activity is in the brain region called the posterior medial medial frontal cortex, which is also known to be involved in cognitive dissonance. And it's the part that will track the confidence level in the person that you're with. So there's a section of the brain that lit up when they agreed. And it was associated with the fact that they were agreeing and they had more continental cortex. No, no, no, it's not. It's the posterior medial frontal cortex. Okay, so wherever post posterior medial frontal Let me think about that. neuroanatomy is ridiculous. It's hard. It's like where is it? It's in the back. Middle. upper part. Yeah. On the lower. I mean, southwest corner. Yeah. All right. So anyways, so they found that the more competent one volunteer was, the more confident the partner became and vice versa. It and once again, it gives the feeling of why we joined tribes and why we seek out people with similar opinions. Okay. However, the interesting part is this when people disagreed, their brains became less sensitive to the strength of others opinions. Remember that the posterior medial frontal cortex when they agreed it tracked the content So I'm sensitive to exactly what you're saying. So what they're saying here, when people disagreed, they became less sensitive to the strength of others opinions. And after agreement, the post your medial frontal cortex cortex, could no longer track the partners competence on the scan when they disagreed and went, yeah, and went away. Consequently, the opinion of the disagreeing partner had little impact on people's conviction that they were correct. Regardless of whether the disagreeing partner was very sure in their assessment, or not at all, they doubled down. They went, Oh, no, they disagreed. So this one shut off, and perceived no lack of confidence in the other person. Does that make sense? Like it's, it's, it's not even a conscious thing going on very much sense. Blood went away from that part of the brain. And so pretty interesting. When they tested the volunteers memory, so a lot of times you'd say, Oh, they just didn't listen to me. They just didn't, they didn't remember it. clearly didn't remember. Because I feel that way a lot when you walk away, and you're like, well, they didn't listen, they won't remember anything. That's not the case. They actually tested the volunteers memory of their partners assessment and bets. Rather, it seemed that contradictory opinions were more likely to be considered categorically wrong. And therefore the strength of those opinions was unimportant. Yeah, that's right. So you can understand how we end up in this polarizing society, if that's going on. It's super complex, multi layered reasons for all this stuff. But how can we increase our chances, you said it best right there. So the end of this article was, well, if this is going on, do something First, find someplace to agree on first, because when you get to an agreement level, if you and I are agreeing, then I assess your confidence, and I automatically a part of my brain gets turned on. If we're finding the common ground, then I'm that part of my brain is ready to see if we can do this. So it's a subconscious thing. We don't know what's going on, it's going on on a physiological level, that that part of the brain kind of gets lit up. And so in the midst of a heated disagreement, just take a step back, find a common ground, and be like, Hey, I know that you're super passionate about Waterloo, and you're part of that subreddit, our Waterloo kill all other, you know, bubbly, but you know what, you know, what's really good? Doesn't matter the brand. I just like the effervescence, right?27:26  Yeah, it's all about the effervescence, as long as it's waterloo.27:31  So I'm the one that found the common ground, so I was prepared to accept your opinion. But you didn't, you didn't join me on that.27:38  The way it started 20 minutes ago.27:41  So the whole reason why I asked you the math question. So, um, it started out with Oh, my gosh, we're gonna have a lot of people with neuro inflammation. Oh, my gosh, they'll be arguing How do you prepare yourself for these arguments? How do you tell, like many things, I do better when I know, oh, I'm behaving like this. My body's doing this. I'm tachycardic. My blood pressure is rising, because I'm letting my emotions have a physiologic effect. Okay, so same thing. So you get an argument go, Oh, why am I being so dissonant here? It could be because blood is going to the wrong part of your brain, instead of where it should go. So that's step one. And then the reason why I asked you the math question, because this is the article that came out on January 14. disagreeing takes up a lot of brain real estate. This one is fun to me. Because much like the adage, it's easier to smile and frown. disagree, is exhausting mentally.28:36  I mean, think about it, you you have a great encounter with a friend, it feels good. And you don't want it to end if you're locked into a disagreement. Think of people sweat sometimes when they're when they're just having a verbal disagreement. And I've got Yeah, that's not even surprising. It's it's not surprising, but28:56  what is always surprising to me is when scientists can prove it, and they have tests to do it. Oh, for sure.29:02  Sure, your brains lit up on that one. So29:03  this one's really cool. So they is defense though, right? Well, we're gonna get into it right here. Check this out. It's more than just defense, something really unique. And it's fascinating. This comes out of Yale. So Yale, researchers devised a way to peer into the brains of two people simultaneously, while they are engaged in discussion. So when two people agree, their brains exhibit a calm synchronicity of activity focused on the sensory area of the brain. I'll say this, again, a calm synchronicity in the sensory area of the brain, okay. This was the sensory area. They didn't get into the exact place but it could be the amygdala, it could be you know, various areas. However, so many other regions of the brain are involved in higher cognitive groups. But when they disagree, so when you're agreeing, you synchronize in the area of the brain, that is the sensory area, okay? In other words, I can feel and see your social cues. Okay? So when we disagree, however, many other regions of the brain involved in higher cognitive function become mobilized as each individual combats the other's arguments. So say that again. So if we're arguing, instead of me just sinking into almost a Zen state of, we're in the sensory area right now, my brain knows that we're arguing. And so my brain shifts blood to the frontal cortex, where there should be higher cognitive functioning, and it's trying to prepare and figure out how we're going to do whatever and come back at it. And so it just, it just lit up and these people, so our entire brain is a social processing network. However, when you disagree, you lose the social processing cues, because you get away from the sensory aspect. I believe that so it becomes all trying to wrap your brain around the logical thing, why in the world, would you like Waterloo, and I'm, you know, so it becomes this, the state and you don't have any, any control over it. So to test their theory, they looked at 38 adults, and after they match them up, based on their responses that the researchers used, they put them in this really cool imaging technology called a functional near infrared spectroscopy. And what they were able to do is record their brain activity while they're engaged in face to face discussions. So remember, the last one, they were kind of in this functional MRI, and they were kind of arguing over a thing. This one specifically allowed them to do real time where two people could like, get in their face and be like, are you you know, like a argument or whatever it is. And what they found is pretty cool. 32:04  Yeah, so if I am.32:06  So if we agree, we are in sync? Sure. If we don't, then I'm trying to use my brain to figure out how to get you to do what I want you to do. So when they were in agreement, the brain activity was harmonious and tended to be concentrated on sensory areas of the brain, such as the visual system. thought this was super cool. Okay, think about when you used to date. And you could tell we're all of a sudden, it's like, the data is going well.32:33  Why is she walking away?32:39  So your date, your dating life? Was that bad that she actually showed up? You're like, oh, when she's leaving, or she's leaving to32:47  what am I doing?32:48  Well, you're, you're not in sync with the sensory areas. Yeah, learn that. But I thought this was fascinating. But the visual system as a sensory area gets in sync. And the visual system, presumably in response to the social cues from the partner.33:03  Okay. Makes sense, though. Because you're almost trying to complement what it is that the person there is doing. Right? That's Yeah,33:09  exactly. So like, I just think it's interesting. When you're like, man, I really, it's that classic thing. Oh, yeah, I know that person. Yeah, we had a great, really cool, we really connected or, you so easy to get along with or, you know, it's33:21  seen as kind of a bad thing, whenever, whenever it's highlighted, because a wrong decision ultimately is made. But there, I think it's just somewhat natural for people to long term when they are jiving with someone else to develop certain confirmation biases. And it's not necessarily always wrong. The conclusions, it's just highlighted when a confirmation bias turns out to be the wrong decision. Doe s that make sense? Because maybe when people are agreeing, and they're working together, it's actually fostering teamwork. And people need other people, wolves are in packs, etc. It's like part of that has to happen so that people feel comfortable working together. But if they're disagreeing, it's like you said, I'm your brains working this puzzle? How am I going to effectively remove myself from this guy's opinion or this thought? Because it's not working out for me. So you really don't care that the visual cue is telling you that the other person is uncomfortable. So you don't you're not tuning in to the fact that they're wanting to pull away? In fact, you're kind of glad.34:25  Yeah, that is totally true. The first article showed the activity, the blood flow, sure, this art or I'm sorry, that basically the blood flow, this article shows the actual activity and however they do it. So it makes sense that once we start disagreeing, I start shifting blood to the the cognitive region of my brain, and it just starts bouncing around trying to figure out how to do that if two people are34:47  agreeing, you're almost allowing yourself to trust the other person to help you in figuring it out. So you're a little bit more relaxed, it's not requiring as much as you begin to disagree. I just wonder if this plays into Little bit of biology like, Well, look, we're in disagreement, we're not working together, I've got to assume more responsibility of this thought this process this conversation.35:10  And then you know, these these guys looked at that, and they're like, well, meanwhile, if they're disagreeing activity, increasing the brain's frontal lobe, your home of higher order executive functions and filtering, and but that's a necessary evolutionary response. Yeah, because if I'm actually in a disagreement, like my like this could escalate, I need to start thinking and planning ahead. The problem is when you start having disagreements over stupid stuff, or things like that, or you have the same disagreement, let's say with a spouse, like you know, I don't know, it's really random, but like, clean up your bedroom, you're so messy, when you come home kind of thing, just random. And fortunately, since I disagree, I'm able to cognitively avoid that. You know what, never mind I realize I'm just going to go home and be in sync from now on and just be one with my mess. Sure, and just allow it to happen. Yeah, or I don't consider it a mess. Yeah, just said, I actually don't consider it that. So what knowing that we've got this synchronicity when this happens when two people agree that brains exhibit calm synchronicity, focused in the sensory areas of the brain, and discord, the brains engage in emotional and cognitive resources. Now, here's the cool part, if we're both disagreeing, and this is both going on, when we're in synchronicity, we're playing a symphony together. When we're disagreeing, and your cognitive functions doing this, and minds doing this, we're both playing symphonies in our heads, but they're different. Trying to play him at the same time. It's36:36  like a jazz band.36:40  So you're, you're equating jazz to cognitive dysfunction.36:44  drummers playing one song bass players playing another. I love jazz music, but it's wild.36:49  So the bottom line is, when you're actually in agreement, you have less cognitive engagement, you have more brain power to do other things. I thought about this, because when you're really like, well, like when we scope like, when I'm scoping, you get into this flow state. And things are good, just, it's just things just your brain just goes. And37:08  so over the years, we've worked together now several, I mean, really, I think the first time that we worked together as in 2012, and in that time, we've seen certain technicians in the room, right, come through and and work with you right now. And we, you've had several great technicians. But over the years, I've seen us where maybe you didn't have the one that caused them not that they were bad, but one that didn't compliment the way that you scope, or the pace that we have in the room, something like that. And right now, we're really fortunate because pretty much every technician that we have right now is really, really, really good. That being said, interesting, that when we're all on the same page, and we can have a we can have a day with several patients, but we catch every problem. patients feel great. They wake up awesome. turnover. Time is awesome. And we're all37:58  we're never behind. Oh, all those things still happen regardless, but we're just smiling more in those days. Yeah.38:05  Thanks for a great day other than I'm out of here.38:08  You know, what's funny about that? Now, that really brings up a good point where I have, I have a lot of surgical friends that do really kind of like neurosurgeons and things. Yeah, and wow, at what I would consider now where I'm like, man, they're so sad. They gotta have that same anesthesiologist, they gotta have those texts, they gotta have that certain music going. They gotta have that. That's not OCD. That's them getting in sync.38:28  Yeah. But it's, but it's kind of a home, right? Because everyone's agreeing with this environment. This scenario, and I do that same thing with Eckhart, when I'm doing is eyes, you know, I mean, it's, we've got a great pace. But some of that, honestly, it's kind of overused term, it's kind of curated, right, we have a playlist that we listen to, that the patients will relax to, but it's good for us.38:50  Yeah, that's gonna be a whole separate thing about the what happens when, you know, you played certain music, and they'd like now now knowing that you can, like examine the brain while they're doing you don't have to be hooked up to things. I don't know how this test was done. So I just thought it was kind of interesting thing, I went down a rabbit hole where I'm very nervous about the possibility of varying degrees of long haul or symptoms. I don't like the term long haul. Because we've seen this with other viruses. I see it all the time. I mean, we've seen it with EBV, we've seen it with,39:19  which is really new. And we don't have enough data, especially because you said it from the very beginning. They got people who've been exhibiting these symptoms for three to six months. And if you look at the timescale for how long this has been out, that could technically be for as long as they've had the problem.39:34  And then if you're one of these people, you're like, Hey, you know what I had COVID and nothing's happened. So I'm sure I'm clear. That's cool. be on the safe side. Do the thing that we I was talking about eat functional foods. Take in polyphenols, avoid fasting. Yeah, avoid fast food. And, you know, if you do find yourself in an argument, and you're like, Hey, you know what, this person probably has a lot of brain inflammation. find some common ground, get a box of Atrantil set it there and be like we both need to calm down. I need to improve my microbiome and you need to block that neuro inflammation that's making you so mean towards me.40:06  Yeah, they'll totally be receptive if that's the first thing. I'm sure.You look angry.40:14  You look angry. Have you had your ? That should be a commercial? We do. Yeah. Two spouses fighting. Somebody shows up.40:21  I mean, anyone loves being told that it's your significant other The first thing out of your mouth, how was your day? You look angry. Everyone responds to that.40:31  You look like you. Your frontal posters. cerebral anterior cortex is not firing. And40:37  yeah, just start off with a cotton that just anything nice shoestrings today?40:42  Well, thank you find that common ground.40:44  Yeah, start start with the shoestrings and then see if we can grow from there.40:48  Alright, so you can disagree. So So the moral of this podcast is that, number one, find yourself in an argument, first of all, give somebody the benefit of the doubt that, hey, they could be having some inflammation going on in their brain. And if you've heard this podcast and understand that, then you can stop and go, Okay, now I understand that blood is being shunted someplace else. So it's going to be very difficult to continue this path. Let's take a second, find some common ground and start there and see if you can work your way back.41:14  It makes sense. And it doesn't have to just be COVID. If you have someone that's in your life, and you're they struggle with anxiety issues, and you always wonder kind of why they're on edge, it may not really be their fault.41:25  Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to the inflammatory process that's going on. And if you've got neuroinflammation because of God because of other things, it's from a science standpoint, it's always real you can I think it's easier to see the other person's perspective when you can, when it's easier for me to always understand somebody's perspective, if I can break it down to a soul level, you're short of breath, that means that your co2 is you know, like, I can go Okay, that's cool. I'm not gonna say why are you short of breath? We only ran one lap.42:04  Yeah, it's this is what's going on. It's so weird to say to somebody. Yeah, well, I think it's a really good point. And I'll, I'm gonna pull the curtain back here a little bit. And it's not exactly just an anxiety, inflammation of the brain. situation, however, it is a brain situation. And it was somebody who was close to me that started acting a little strangely. And for a while no one really knew. But my dad, who was always happy go lucky. For a brief period in his life, there was 24 months or so where he was irritable. And nobody really knew why, however, me included, everybody, unfortunately, hadn't had an exchange with my dad. This is several years ago, where we would probably have like an argument where I'm never even heard just the guy growing up, really. And it turns out, he had a brain tumor. And once we got a treated, and he was back to us back to, you know, normal dad. But oddly enough, I'm just thinking of situations where you just have to have enough empathy that if you feel like someone's on edge, I love the way you said it, give them the benefit of the doubt, find common ground. If you've always been running into recall, someone just find the common ground, because who knows, you may actually help them. You'll certainly get further in your conversation. And I wished it. Did I known that even back then. I mean, of course, it we were we were over it quickly, when we all figured out what was what was going on. But it was something that he couldn't control at all. And but yeah, it's worth giving someone a bit of a doubt.43:44  The brain is so fascinating to me, because when you say that he couldn't control it all whether it's a tumor or whether when people I was listening out, man, that fighter that's on Joe Rogan's most recent episode. Oh, what's his name is? Justin Ren. Justin read.44:01  Yeah. Is it just an idea? He does the in Uganda? Yeah.44:06  He does such an incredible job of explaining addiction and depression. He's been through it in a way that you're just like, Whoa, yeah, like I did not know it got like that. And even Joe was like that. I'm just the kind of guy that can walk away from things. And guess what, some people could have walked away from everything that he struggles to walk away from. It's just not how it worked for him. And it's how his brain is wired. And it helped him to understand he actually said that flat out he's like, once it was explained to me that I have less dopamine going on. And once I take this, it hits me different than it hits other people. And finally learning that allowed me to realize this is not a mind over willpower kind of thing. This is strictly when I do this. This is what's going to happen. If you're a diabetic. And I'm like, Eric, I got the greatest donut. You're gonna love it. It's amazing. And you look at that and go well, if I eat that my blood sugar will spike and I will end up Possibly, you know, an hyperglycaemic crisis. It's that makes sense, right? Yeah. But we never talked about the brain, we never say, oh, if you drink the day before, maybe the following day, you may end up with your GABA receptors depleted, and therefore you'll have increased anxiety. And that can lead to panic attacks. Yeah, things like that.45:19  My cousin, psychiatrist and years and decades ago, I remember him telling me that one of the most difficult things to deal with in psychiatry is that it's not like orthopedics, you can see a broken bone and want to fix it. You just can't see the brain, you just see the resulting things of people's behavior. And that's kind of hard, because it's all when you're little, you're told to behave, Oh, of course, behave, do the right thing. Whatever. If someone misbehaves so many times, it's attributed Well, they've chosen to act poorly. But maybe, maybe some things are just in a process of inflammation where they're making. Yeah, they're making bad decisions, but maybe they're arriving at the decision, not really, how they wanted to get there. And then, you know, we46:07  talked about what we've, I mean, CTE is a relatively new thing. But CTE is now showing up. And not just in football, it was discovered there. But now we're seeing in MMA fighters, which we thought MMA was safer than boxing, because, you know, you didn't get hit 20 times. But now we're seeing some of these fighters do some different things we talk about some of the very, you know, some very sad and horrific suicides, and some things like that have gone on with people that have had long careers in professional wrestling is one and that and you're just like, Whoa, and people want to block your players.46:39  Oh, really? Yeah. head butting? Oh, yeah, knocking that46:43  knocking the ball around. It's great. It's crazy. And so it all comes down to inflammation. And so it's it's sort of, it's sort of my life's mission, you know, the brain gut access, decrease the inflammatory process in the gut, and the brain and the same thing, and we can do it all the time. You know, increase your NRF two pathway, decrease your your TNF alpha, your interleukin sector and liquid ones. And those are those are fancy words for just saying, Let's stop the inflammatory process.47:09  Yeah, that's it. It's crazy. But it's all it's not it's all but so much of disease and chronic disease is just tied back to inescapable long term inflammation.47:20  And that's so good. Circling all the way back to the very first thing that I said the whole Wim Hof thing as I started reading about it, actually one of my patients who's suffering a lot from a multitude of symptoms, kind of like a systemic inflammatory process. And it's really kind of struggling to come out of it. And we've tried a lot of different things. He's like, he's like, Doc, it's like, I've been doing this thing called Wim Hof Method now for a couple months. And I was like, I'll try anything. And then as I started looking at it, it actually, because you control the parasympathetic system, which is the vagus nerve, which is the great highway from the gut to the brain, you actually do change the whole, well, I don't know the exact aspect. But if you're affecting the parasympathetic nervous system, you're going to decrease neuronal activity in areas that you don't want it to be hyperactive. So breathing, that's how come calming breathing increases parasympathetic, exhaling, and that's how come there's so much meditative yoga. And there's so many things like that there's a physiologic thing that goes on if you do it, right. Which also brings up an interesting point, because I just thought of this, just now, every time I've ever done yoga, like a yoga class, and I've done quite a bit, it's mainly just to kind of get it out of the way. It's like, I'm gonna go do my stretching thing. And when they say home, and they do this, and I had cognitive dissonance, I was like, I was gonna argue the fact we don't really need to make these weird sounds, can we just stretch? And now I just realized, and here I am, I did that. I went in there with a disagreeing attitude of why we have to do these other things I just wanted to get my stretch on. And I'm at fault for that. I just realized, I just noticed that there it is,49:03  you know, even when someone's intubated in surgery, in your right eye when you're applying the yoga and the humming or whatever, because basically, you're creating resistance for the air to leave the lungs, etc. The hyperinflation of the lungs. Well, guess what we do someone's intubated and we need a valsalva maneuver, we basically just hyper inflate the lungs, but we're just doing it mechanically. And it's because it's been proven time and time again that that is going to stimulate the vagus nerve and get the acetylcholine from the Vagus,49:34  man. See, this is what I liked that book so much. They went into that where they said that if you slow exhale while humming through your nose, you actually increase nitric49:44  oxide in the blood as well. Yeah, because you need the veza dilation to bring in blood that's been metabolized or the blood it's been bringing the metabolites co2 back to the lungs be breathed off. I mean, it just goes in that cycle over and over again. And it's kind of cool because this is This is really why I want to do this show, I think because later after you do some more Wim Hof, because I'm really curious on how they explain it to the layperson. Maybe we could lay down a little bit of physiology that way that if someone's sitting there, sitting on the edge of Wim Hof, or nesters ideas, we can actually show physiologically why what they're saying,50:20  actually makes a lot of sense. And there's a lot of science on this. I think that a lot of academic institutions have used him as a guinea pig because he allows it because he's not only a believer, he is the example he Yes, and then they can show all these different physiologic changes, but it's really cool. So like, I'm thinking, you know, practice, practice what we preach here. I don't know like next time I find myself in an argument with somebody have something locked and loaded, that you can agree on just so that you can almost like press the reset button. Possibly. Yeah. Oh, wait, hold on. I know that you're doing this. But if you're noticed, and then just something that's kind of that everybody will agree on me. Of course, everybody likes Jolly Ranchers. Yeah. You know, that's high fructose corn syrup. Yeah. I was just thinking of things that people would normally like. Yeah, normally.51:11  Yeah. Honestly, in today's climate, I don't know that there's any one thing other than you could say oxygen is good to breathe. And Sun is good most of the time.51:20  I know that the Lord is gonna call you up be like Eric, what happened? Every time that I want to tell him to go clean his room or something? He says that that don't you think that my hair looks pretty? It's it's become a weird tick. I51:35  think we need to scan as bright as the common51:39  that's common ground.51:40  Yeah. Well, man, awesome. Awesome. Surprise there. I love I love the topic.51:47  But we're good. We're gonna get sciency Yeah, we're gonna have some guests on that can can kick some knowledge on their books and on the on the research that they're doing?51:53  Yeah, keep an eye out for Olivia and Aiden to be joining the podcast here really, really soon. Sweet. I'm excited about that. And we're still not finished with the installments on on the immune system, literally. Keeping up with the email over the last episodes, as well as preparing for a couple of other things. Just the new year is etc. We've had a really bizarre shake up in our schedule at the info center. Whether we're full or not full of random times. There's news. Yeah, life still goes on here too. Hey, we52:26  got a new president of the United States.52:30  Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about that.52:32  So there was immediately executive orders, which were like, Oh my gosh, how's this gonna affect us? And52:36  did you know what we have to work? We still have to put gas in the car. So take care of the kids. Ultimately, all politics is still local. I still gotta be nice to everybody around the house. You know, you said52:48  you put in order gas in the car then kids and I know deep down USA stuff to work got to buy my Waterloo. Oh, Bill, the gas52:57  that's given. It's like taxes,52:59  Episode 48. So next time, if number one, hopefully you will never get COVID if you do get COVID and it's mild. Keep an eye out that there appears to be a low level inflammatory response which could lead to other things so control the inflammation by controlling your diet eating a very colorful plate. Top zinc Yeah, takes a vitamin D. The polyphenols in our trunk to have been shown to help with the innate immune system. See Episode 47 your sleep? Absolutely. pillars. So any parting words hurt53:30  now? Thank you all for for I mean, seriously, the the last two episodes the amount of email sharing. Thank you. Yeah, and I appreciate it.53:40  Yeah. So please, like subscribe, the usual stuff, share it. We want to try and get the word out and if there's any questions or anything, email them, we try to get to it. We have Angie Coker secret weapon who will find any article anywhere in the world at any hour.53:57  Yeah, he gets some sleep.54:01  All right. Thanks, everybody. Bye bye. It's54:02  Episode 48 till later

00:00 Are all men created equal? https://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2020/07/01/meaning-declaratnce-changed-time/ 05:30 Kenneth Brown appears on Godward Podcast, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4zJFBO8FRE 20:30 Adam Green, Angelo John Gage on Nick Fuentes, https://youtu.be/ItNwzGr_mLA?t=3084 25:00 Richard Spencer on Nick Fuentes ban from CPAC 37:00 Ramzpaul on Vox Day sticking with QANON, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjzSuKquza4 39:45 Dinesh D'Souza: Is White Supremacist Richard Spencer Really Aligned With the Right? 53:00 Competitive reading 1:00:00 Episteme, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episteme 1:08:30 Glenn Greenwald to RT | Biden administration predictions 1:23:40 ADHD as an adult, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhWY50bzdqI 1:29:00 Whenever I am disturbed, there is something wrong with me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a0aogomVqc 1:32:50 QANON as a psyop, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLqYCDu_ZcY 1:37:10 American Ideals: Founding a “Republic of Virtue” by Professor Daniel N. Robinson, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_N._Robinson 1:41:40 Vaush: Cringing HARD at Styxhexenhammer's Bizarre Inauguration Day Video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRaDkpgwF3o 1:49:45 Cigar Stream #68: The Importance of James Burnham, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWX2lA_iU4Y 1:59:00 David Foster Wallace on being alone, silence, reading, and our culture of instant gratification 2:03:00 Adam Curtis: 'Can't Get You Out of My Head: An Emotional History of the Modern World' 2:07:50 NWG: ON WHY POLICE ARE ABLE TO BRUTALIZE PATRIOTS; THOUGHTS ON BAKED ALASKA 2:13:50 Jared Taylor: Enjoy the Gulag, Trump! 2:20:20 Jared Taylor returns on the Political Cesspool https://trovo.live/lukeford https://rumble.com/lukeford 90% of my livestreaming is here exclusively: https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford

0:00  Hello, everyone, welcome to the gut check project gut check project fans, KBMD health  family, how are you doing? It is now time for episode number 47. I'm here with my awesome co host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. 0:13  What's up Episode 47. This is part two of our immunology. So this is I'm pretty excited. Because just this morning, you said you better check out Joe Rogan this morning because Dr. Mark Gordon is on there. And this dude was saying everything that we've been talking about, but I feel like we even have it to the next level. So we're talking to scientists that understand the whole concept of functional nutrition, functional things that I felt like he was saying, everything that we've been talking about now for quite a while like yours0:45  is no doubt the coolest thing is another thing that we'll we'll get to it in a moment. But it's it's all about eating right. having great nutrition, he used an incredible example of India, where Let's face it, a lot of people don't have the economic means that we do here in the United States. However, they're facing COVID, they have the same health issues that we do here, roughly, and they've got a large population. So when comparing apples to apples are talking about nutrition, and there's some specific things in that nutrition when you say,1:17  oh, and we're gonna get into that, in fact, I got an article here that we're gonna go over and I'll spoiler alert for you. But it's exactly what what what we're talking about right now. So we got some feedback. I apologize to everyone the last podcast we did, we were trying some unique things. And we didn't have such good sound quality, but that's what you get when your sponsor is lousy Lavalier comm so we had LousyLavalier.com Yeah, so we dropped them. And so I'm happy to announce that we got a new sponsor, which we did get a new sponsor, and this is awesome. It's actually a hot dog company. They're called diarrhea dogs. And their slogan is, we're not sure what's in the dog, but we know it will give you diarrhea. Yeah. who's who's betting our sponsor?2:05  The cool thing is, is it's a it's a host specific sponsor, so I'm looking for you to tell me how I2:11  know seriously, who in the company is? Is it Mike? is Mike getting sponsors for us, Mike, because I've already cashed a check. We got to keep talking about diarrhea dogs.2:18  It's, I can't this can't keep happening.2:20  We had lousy Lavalier as a sponsor, then we followed up with diarrhea dogs, yeah. Oh, my goodness,2:25  this is not working out.2:26  We're gonna have a little talk with Barry Weiss. How you been man?2:30  doing well, so we're into a brand new year now. What brief amount of time had a great vacation with the family? And it really just in time, right. I mean, there's, everything's kind of limited on what you can do. Yeah. But we it was, it's good to always have the older son come home spend time with him. We started building some furniture over the last couple weeks. So it's a great bonding experience with me and the boys. And of course, Maria is telling us what she wants us to look like. So trying hard to make it. Yeah. But you know, it's it's been a lot of fun. Mac is in the swing of basketball. And so life, normal life is starting to take on a new meaning. But it's it's good.3:09  Yeah. What about you? Well, for us, um, you know, the, the whole COVID lockdown, you start looking at your house a little bit. And so loida kind of convinced me that maybe we should start considering making a few little changes. And it started out with the master bath. And she's like, you know, shoot, can I do a few other things? I'm like, Yeah, absolutely. So I'm really busy with work and come back. And then you know, next thing I know, the builders or the contractors there and he's like, Look, okay, so this is what we've designed. Here's the plans, bla bla bla bla bla, and, you know, he's like, we're gonna buy the neighbor's house and we're gonna, you know, tear, tear this one down. But I mean, it was just I'm like, Whoa, we're doing a lot of work here. So I'm already in it. We're gonna be in this house for a long time. It's a great area. You notice everybody's moving to Texas. They definitely dragons bringing everybody down here. So following him. So at3:54  any point, did you have a spreadsheet that said, redo house or simply burn house?4:01  Well, then it's like one of those shows. Like once you see the plans, you're like, Oh, yeah, I want it to look like that. But you know, and oh, guess what I did today was that guess what I did? 30 seconds ago. Oh,4:12  I know what you did? Yeah, you got into crypto.4:15  So as we're setting up to do this show, we started having a conversation about cryptocurrency and Bitcoin and people have been telling me to get involved. So in a spur of the moment, while Eric was setting up the mics and everything I bought some Bitcoin Yeah, go Bitcoin.4:29  Yeah. And and we need to probably have a disclaimer that we know nothing about cryptocurrency. Oh, absolutely. Nothing nice. But yeah, it was really kind of cool to watch you do it.4:36  Yeah. So we've covered our sponsors. A little word with the person that's choosing them in the future. And so let's jump into the immune episode part two. So even if the audio is a little bit off on that last one, I encourage everyone to look at our last podcast, because I do a detailed explanation in or at least detailed for a simple country butt Dr. That's living in Texas for the innate immune system, and I actually rewatched it when we were getting the comments great information, audio bad. And at the very end, I go, so that covers the adaptive immune system. I'm like, No, I should have no it was the innate, we did not cover the adaptive yet. There's a reason why that's coming, because then we're going to lead into the vaccinations for COVID and things. Right. So that was the innate. But here's what's really cool. We're gonna talk about what Dr. Mark Gordon was talking about on Joe show. And it's super cool. Like we've been on top of this the whole time. It's been it's it's actually huge, huge news for everyone.5:36  I think a lot of people can learn a lot about what they can do just to protect themselves. And let's small preface, you don't have to just apply the knowledge that you'll pick up today to COVID. COVID actually can begin to fit into other viruses with this talk that we're going to have today.5:52  Yes. And specifically, this is not a COVID talk. We're not saying that at all. What we're saying is we're gonna talk about how to optimize a well running immune system. Yeah. And so when I talked to some of my colleagues and people discuss different things, Angie, and I were talking that she's like, have you looked at our Mendeley account? So Mendeley is where we put all our articles, and I just did a quick look. We have over 1000 articles regarding immune health and how to optimize it through nutrition and lifestyle. Yeah. So even that is science backed. Everything we're talking about here is completely science backed. In fact, one of the things I wanted to discuss because I think it's really cool is this article that just came out in 2020. It's called the antiviral functional foods and exercise, lifestyle prevention of Coronavirus. That's a very boring title. And those are the kinds of things that I read. And it was published in the Journal of nutrients. What's fascinating about this is that they discuss the things that other people are now just finally starting to talk about. Yeah, so I want to review this article really quick. Then I want to get back to the whiteboard. And hopefully sound a little bit better.7:06  We're gonna use headphones today.7:07  Yeah, we're gonna try and use headphones. I got a new mic attached to a hemorrhoid bander because I feel very comfortable holding hemorrhoid banders. Yeah, so that is dry tone right there. That is right there. 7:20  that's almost as good as the Bob Barker microphone from the remember the little skinny one that he had on7:28  the show? Yeah, when they tell you to go spay and neuter your dog.7:31  Yeah. spay and neuter your dog spin the wheel. Drive. I can't wait. I had a hard time of that. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Great show.7:37  So basically, on this article, it's really interesting. Not actually not interesting. For us. It was it just reiterated everything that we've kind of base talking about. What they looked into was functional foods. They called it functional foods, and physical exercise. So the exercise part was a brief part than 90% of the article was talking about functional foods, which they described as functional foods being polyphenols.8:02  Incredible.8:02  So the functional foods are polyphenols because of the various mechanisms that they do in the body. We got contacted by an author of the sirt diet. That's sirtuins. And he noticed that we've been talking about polyphenols and said, Wow, you guys are on that. So the whole thing about Adele's diet that she lost all that weight, that's called the sirtuin diet or the sirt diet. And then I've watched it on Dr. Oz. And I was like, there's something about polyphenols, polyphenols. And the reason why is you're gonna see on this whiteboard, how many different ways a functional food like a poly phenol can benefit you definitely. And so the cert diet just means that you turn on certain genes, it's an epigenetic thing. So really quick on the exercise. No big surprise, as it turns out, exercise is pretty good for you. Sure. So they looked at different aspects of it. And what it does do is it does activate natural killer cells, and will induce monocytes to become antigen presenting cells like dendritic cells. If you go I don't know what that is. We talked about that on the last episode. And we're going to get to it again here. So don't worry. That being said, super extreme exercise, which we have talked about this can actually lower your immune system. So many times when people train super hard, and we're talking about like, marathons and triathlons and marathon running. I've had so many patients that get very sick after they really train for something, they go all out, and then they get sick. And it's because I didn't even realize this, that you produce so many reactive oxygen species. This damages cells, which leads to inflammation, you're gonna hear this term over and over again. And then it actually adversely affects your white blood cells ability to fight off infections. Yeah. So the real idea is that regular exercise is really good for you. It gets rid of old immune cells that don't work very well. And you actually stimulate young healthy cells that can actually have a young, healthier immune system. It has been shown that highly conditioned athletes have a much better functioning innate immune system, as opposed to sedentary people. Yeah. So when we're sitting in a viral season, and if you're sedentary and you're overweight, and you got diabetes and high blood pressure, your immune system doesn't work as well. And there's reasons for this in this paper. So then they kind of went through that they're like, yeah, okay, so exercise is good. And then they go into 90% of the rest of the article is discussing polyphenols and the multiple areas that these functional foods benefit our immune system. Okay. And, oh, we're probably jumping ahead. What's a polyphenol?10:40  Oh, what is it polyphenol? Yeah, tell everybody what a polyphenol islittle compounds that are found. And fruits and vegetables. Generally they are what can be responsible for the coloration that's inside those fruits and vegetables. And they they're naturally occurring. Some of them are large, or small. But in essence, our bodies love them.10:59  Absolutely. So I always refer to them as mother nature's secret weapon. This particular article goes into great detail about how the flavonoids, terpenoids alkaloids in the polyphenols, so they can go into that are actually bio active, they can influence genes have peptide qualities, and are broken down by our microbiome into potent anti aging, anti inflammatory, anti cancer metabolites.11:25  Right. You know, I was thinking about this, how do we bring validation to this part of this study, or the I'm sorry, the discussion, I guess, whenever we're talking about this to people, because I started thinking about, if someone years ago when you were when you were young, and someone said, you probably need more calcium to make your bones strong, you didn't just go to the store and buy sack of calcium, you generally just started drinking more milk or something similar. Or if you were an athlete, and you knew that you needed to make sure that you didn't get cramps, you ate bananas, or ate spinach, all of that stuff, you didn't go and just buy the little element, those elements are naturally occurring in something that you're eating or drinking. That's essentially what we're trying to talk about with polyphenols is there are small little things in there that your body craves, just like your bones want calcium, the these are the vehicles, these are the foods that will deliver what your body wants to maintain health and keep you healthy 100%. And they mentioned how versatile polyphenols are.12:24  Oh yeah, meaning they function in many different ways. Number one, they can have potential influence on your gut barrier, where they improve the immune system of the gut barrier, the first portion of that, then they actually have epigenetic phenomenon. Most important is that your microbiome will break these things down to beneficial products. And that's going to be something that we've talked about post biotics before, I'm very excited. We've contacted this a PhD in Argentina, who has one of the most amazing articles describing the post biotic effect. And they actually demonstrate that the larger, more complex polyphenol is the best way to consume it. In other words, yeah, you don't want to take the one little molecule. So that's pretty much what they said about polyphenols, because we're gonna talk a lot more about that. And then it kind of like briefly go over Oh, and then there's vitamin D, which is pretty good for y'all. So vitamin D deserves its own show, because it's more like a hormone than it is like a vitamin here. And then they look at a couple other things like vitamin C and stuff, and they kind of gloss over it. And then they come back to the polyphenols. And they're like, and then they reference to the viruses. And they show how there's so much information out there about how these polyphenols actually influence the destruction of multiple viruses like influenza, Zika, virus, HSV, and Corona.13:45  And there's a mechanism to and there's13:47  a mechanism for each one of these. So the conclusion is, and this is, I hate to say Joe Rogan, for the third time in about first five minutes, it'll validate what we say. He's always said, why aren't we discussing ways to improve our immune system, prevent ourselves and do this, these guys end the whole article, and by the way, it's thick 20, some pages with references and everything they end it with the conclusion is, this is a pretty cheap and simple way to improve your immune system or optimize, get some exercise, eat some polyphenols and get a little sun. Yeah, that was the combination of it. All right. And and these people put a lot of work into that. And that that's a spoiler alert.14:31  I think I might have said though it's really, really important is that there's a lot of work. There's a lot of research, there's a lot to take in here. However the solution if you really think about it, it isn't that difficult to adhere to this to keep to keep people healthy. That's actually the coolest part. The summary of it all is polyphenol, sleep exercise. You're off to an incredible start just with that and don't i don't think you should shy away from Rogan at all. He supports tons of other podcasts gives huge mentions to other people. They're doing the same thing. When I heard Dr. Mark on this morning with him, I just I liked it because it not only was somebody else talking about the same subject, but he was doing it in such detail that we like to talk about it, that I encourage you, we're not the only ones who have this level of research and are seeing these kinds of results with people.15:22  Oh, it's so cool. And now because we're in these circles with these PhDs, I'm getting preliminary data on different studies where it's humans, where they're looking at what I'm going to talk about here. Yeah. So what I thought we could do is try and do round two, you put some headphones on, 15:37  I'm going to have to,15:38  I'm going to grab my Bob Barker mic right here. I'm going to turn this one15:46  that was kind of quiet. And now I'm going to come back like this. There he is. This is why we have headphones. This is15:52  why we have headphones. And now I'm going to switch the cameraprobably should have you looked at the computer to make sure that I'm in focus and everything. And now, let's do a recap of the last. And that's not a window of the last podcast that we did. This is a kind of quicker version of what we did. And this is to get everybody up to speed because when we talk about polyphenols, we need to make sure that you understand exactly what's going on and why there are functional food. So just to recap, the innate immune system is your response to any type of damage, whether that damage is through physical damage, whether that damage is through infection, whether that damage is through repeated poor diet choices, your body is going to try and repair itself. So let's walk through what happens. The first step, step one, let's just assume that you have an infection. If you have a virus or bacteria, what it will do is it will attack a cell. So that cell no matter what it is, sounds an alarm. And it notifies its neighbor, which is kind of its bodyguard, the mast cell. The mast cell then releases what is called braided cinan. This is really neat, because if you ever sprained an ankle or done anything, this is what's going on. The braided cinan send different proteins or cytokines to the blood vessel. First step is the blood vessel. And what it does is it actually normally the blood vessels have very tight seals, what it does is the blood vessels pull apart a little bit to allow fluid to come out. Well, the reason for that is is that you want the swelling to contain whatever's going on. You sprained an ankle, you go oh my gosh, look at my ankle, it's so swollen, well, it's there for a reason, because that fluid is trying to concentrate what your body needs in the same area. So the fluid starts coming out step to these braded cinan, and different other cytokines send up little flags, just like Velcro sticks. And these are called intercellular adhesion molecules. And what they do is they grab white blood cells that are swimming by so these white blood cells have these little hooks and they get hit and they stop and they go, Oh, what's going on all the fluids going out that way, I'm gonna go out that way. So then the white blood cells join this little party over here. This is what ends up causing redness, swelling and pain anytime you have any type of infection, anytime you have any type of injury. So now we have these white blood cells, what they do is they go, Oh, that mast cell told us to go that way. And so the white blood cells head over to what's going on. And then this allows your body to fight the intruder that's doing this. So that's step one. So now these white blood cells come around. You heard me say in that other study the antigen presenting cells. So one of these types of cells, which is a phagocyte, will actually first thing it does is it swallows the invader, bacteria, virus, fungus, whatever it is, swallows it, and the reason why does it it digests it, and then it breaks it apart and goes, Okay, this is what it looks like. So it puts wanted posters on its outside. So this guy said, I know what's attacking us now, this, this guy right here. So these antigen presenting cells, put it on the outside, and then they do something else. They release cytokines, specifically, multiple cytokines, but the important ones are TNF alpha, interleukin six, interleukin one, interleukin eight, and you're going to hear a lot more about this, because I'm talking to scientists all over the world. And people are now studying specifically how we can use functional foods to control this response. So TNF alpha, does a lot of things. It's a pro inflammatory cytokine. And so we know that TNF alpha is used in very expensive drugs block that for rheumatory arthritis for Crohn's disease for ulcerative colitis for all of that. So TNF alpha does something kind of interesting that I found unique is it actually goes to the hypothalamus and it increases your core body temperature. So when I say these are bad, they're really good for you in small amounts, it's when it becomes too much that it becomes bad. So TNF alpha hits the hypothalamus increases, and that's how you get fever, interleukin six, it goes to the bone marrow and increases the white blood cells. So this is why you have that achy feeling if you've ever had the flu, or if you're gonna get a vaccine, and you go, Oh, my gosh, I had a vaccine, that kind of hurt, I feel like I have a low level flu. It's because the bone marrow is producing more white blood cells. interleukin one goes to the liver to produce acute inflammatory reactance, which goes into something called the complement system. But that inflammation is what we measure in people. In fact, cardiologists use this all the time they look at C reactive protein, yeah, because when you have inflammation, the liver produces this. So people with coronary disease will have increased levels of that, and then interleukin eight.Fascinating, it basically produces more of those little Velcro hands. So then we come all the way back to the blood vessel. And now we've got dilation, fluid coming out. And every white blood cell that's coming through gets grabbed. So when you have the white blood cells producing here, you've got the fever, which increases the amount of blood flow heart rate is faster, everything. It's an phenomenal and just beautiful little system. Yeah, it is. And when it works great. It's exactly what we need. It's exactly what you need. In the acute phase. Definitely the innate immune system is here to protect you in the first phase. So now step three of the innate immune system out of you, but that's the antigen presenting cell, the one that we were talking about over here, sometimes they sometimes they get overwhelmed, and the virus actually wins. So the poor little guy dies. It's that's a good cartoon. Yeah, so the poor guy dies here. So the antigen presenting cell dies. So it leaves rubble, so it's comes out and the body even gets that. So reactive oxygen species are left behind, that's known as oxidative stress. That's good in small amounts, because that will kill other things around it. Assuming that this guy got overwhelmed when he dies. Maybe other cells are being overwhelmed, and then that oxidative stress will kill it. Yep. This is known as a reactive oxygen species or reactive nitrogen species. But when that goes on for a long time, that's what actually causes chronic disease, like heart disease, cancer, aging, this is actually why we age, reactive oxygen species, autoimmune disease, dementia and obesity. Nobody ever thought that you can become fat because you have low level chronic inflammation. And I've talked about this on other episodes. 22:56  Definitely.22:57   So final step here is the thing you didn't know about, which is the toll like receptors, right? Okay, so toll like receptors is just another layer of defense, where if these toll like receptors are actually activated, they do very specific things. For instance, the toll like receptor number seven, is very specific to release certain things to fight RNA viruses. You can go through these others, there are ones that are built to fight bacteria that are flageolets flageolets. Yeah, I think we're both saying that wrong, but that's okay. fragilities, flageilities. And they also do something that we have talked about before, I want to say we talked about it. On at least three episodes, I can think of the epigenetic phenomenon of nuclear factor Kappa beta NFKB. So when the toll like receptors turned on NFKB goes up. And NFKB is the one that we talked about with the broccoli episode, right? with David Roberts and john gilday. On Yeah, this is the one that actually has a what's called plio trophic phenomenon. So it affects many different things. So when NF Kappa beta is turned on, then you go through a huge surge of our old friends, TNF alpha, interleukin six, right? So he has more inflammation with inflammation, the common theme of inflammation, right? So inflammation, what does inflammation lead to? Oh, this dementia, autoimmune aging, cancer, heart attack na, so this innate immune system is here. The other thing that I did not mention was that when the toll like receptors get turned on, like this toll like receptor number seven, which is for viruses, one of the things that releases is interferons. interferons, actually, are molecules that directly destroy cells that have been infected with viruses. So if you were to get a virus, you breathe it in through your nose, let's say it goes to your lungs, a cell is being attacked, it can actually send a signal to a healthy cell says We're under attack, you need to be ready for this. And that's the little cell that waits with a gun at the door. So when the virus rings, the doorbell goes and shoots it. That's not proper technique and how you shoot it. We've25:21  seen actual footage of this going down at a microscopic level. So yeah,25:24  it's it's fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. It's like watching an old Western, just like oh, my gosh, and the. And it's totally true. Because the viruses that show up, they always wear black hats every time every time. Yeah. So that's a recap of very quick recap of what we talked about last episode. Yeah, I get it a little bit more detail. How's it? How's the sound quality?25:47  The sound is much better than last time.25:49  Okay, good. So hopefully, we'll continue with this. So how do we describe how functional foods work? Because our big thing last time was improve your immune system do this, but nobody talks about how, why?26:05  I've got a question for you. So when we look at this, and I think this is a reasonable question, you look at it, and we're talking about all the bad manifestations that happen. When there's too much TNF alpha, or aisle six or aisle one, we have too much row s, or I'm sorry, reactive oxygenation, species, ultimately, too much inflammation. But I needed all of this to happen. So, Dr. Brown, what is it that I'm missing? That would help me not have the system that I need? That keeps me alive and safe, run out of control? And basically, ultimately destroy me anyhow?26:42  Absolutely. So what we're talking about is how do you optimize? Yeah, well, running immune system. Definitely. One of the theories right now is that why do younger people not get sick with the current virus that's going around, is because they have a very good innate immune system. As we age, as I mentioned, as we age or you become sedentary, possibly, this happens. And so you go, Oh, well, I still don't get that. We'll imagine this. Imagine quietly, this attack happens, virus, bacteria, anything, and your innate immune system is kind of slow to react. And by the time it realizes, Oh, my gosh, something's going on. Many cells have been infected. Which means when these cytokines go up, it's a huge amount. If you have a really healthy innate immune system, you catch it at the first cell. Yep. So let's talk about functional foods. functional foods, functional foods, polyphenols, so I'm going to use these little brand. These little hexagons. Yeah. Demonstrate functional six added. Yes. Excited. Whatever you go.27:50  All right. Now hexagon, you're27:52  right. This is all based off of science. All based off of very detailed documented, I want to thank every PhD out there who goes through this kind of trouble and probably gets no recognition. Because this is Sony. And, you know, we're talking about so when Dr. Mark Gordon was on his show today, he didn't really understand why course it's an or why tumeric does this. Let's talk about that. Let's do that. All right, step one. So this will represent the different stages that it actually happens. Step one, intestinal gut health, intestinal gut health, that's your first barrier. Anything that comes in, you're going to make sure that you have a good healthy working gut, healthy work in gut. Step two. We know that it has potent antiviral activity. I mentioned earlier in the other article about how these functional foods can actually destroy viruses on contact.28:52  So we've got gut and the virus itself.28:54  antivirus itself step. If the virus makes it past that, inside the cell itself, is the M protease that allows the virus but bacteria do this also. It has to attach to the cell. Well, what does it do? It prevents it from attaching then, oh my gosh, this is a really tough virus and it made it through all these lines of defense already. Yeah. Well, as it turns out, bunch of foods polyphenols actually work zinc Ionafores and prevent the replication29:35  Hmm. Blocking replicase 29:37  replicase correct. Nice actually blocks the replication.29:42  So So right now we have four tags up and we're still on number one of the innate immune system. That's29:47  why it's so important to understand the innate immune system. Yes. And why nobody's talking about this. I'm going to keep going. Yeah, and this is not once again, this is not my opinion. Yeah. We've got 1000 articles to To show all of it, right? Okay, so now we got our friend, the mast cell over here and everything that I'm saying is not an on or off switch, it's the optimized way to do it. If your body needs it, these functional foods help it ramp it up. If it doesn't, it does it. Alright, so the mast cell that releases the braided cinans that go to the blood vessel, oh, the mast cell actually gets stabilized by functional foods, polyphenols, nice. So it doesn't overreact or under react, then it's almost like, really, truly Mother Nature's secret weapon, then the blood vessels which release the fluids, there's something called or I forgot what the actual enzyme is, but it actually attenuates the enzyme that creates the leakage. So it controls the amount of fluid that comes out. And in the same line, what it does is it actually controls the amount of the adhesion molecules, so all those little hooks that grab that, right, it actually does the optimum amount for that. Okay. So getting back, this is why Dr. Mark Gordon was like, Oh, we have shown that it helps with inflammation, I'm going to tell you exactly where it helps, right whole pathway. Okay, so we've now blocked the little adhesion molecules so that only the right amount of cells come out, only the right amount of cells come out. And remember, when I said that it monocytes become our antigen presenting cells, it helps them mature. Oh, it's like steroids for those guys.31:35  So it activates them. It's a growth hormone, right? So we're allowing these phagocytes to now do their role. And by having the right amount of polyphenols available, it's going to do it quicker.31:45  Exactly. So we're now heading to step two. So what does it do? Oh, yeah. It helps the antigen presenting cells, taking the vacuoles and put those different proteins on the outside quicker, because it's already made these more mature. And then we get to the real important part, it tells the antigen presenting cell, yo, be a little careful how many cytokines you send out. Hmm. So there's multiple studies looking at each one of these. And so I'll do this real quick. While you're32:19  putting those up there, I'll just add that Dr. Gordon spoke today specifically about how high circulating cytokines lead to insomnia and an inability to rest enough because it causes neural inflammation, which is just building on it. That's32:33  right. He did, he talked to specifically about that. And that's that brain gut connection and percent inflammation, that's what we always talk about. So as it turns out, it tells the antigen presenting cell, Hey, be careful what you do, then just to make sure as another safeguard, it specifically will control how much TNF alpha, how much interleukin six, how much interleukin one and how much interleukin eight is actually necessary. And these are all documented on specific studies. And I know that these are being done in humans right now, because I'm getting preliminary results. And they're showing very specific in vivo, meaning people that have this kind of situation, actually decrease these different cytokines. So it's not just a total decrease. It's the right amount. So if you need more white blood cells, then there's no reason to shut it off completely. Right. Like we just can't You can't be smarter than Mother Nature. Yeah, comes down to Okay, how am I sounding sound good. All right. Now, let's go to it's a lot better than last week. So so let's go to Step three, the antigen presenting cells that do this, also do another job, briefly, which we will get into in some other episode, or will bring a better person to do it. Some of those cells go to the lymph system, where they then activate the adaptive immune system where they form antibodies.33:56  Very, very important,33:58  relevant right now, because if everybody's running out getting a vaccine, that's what you're working on worthless unless you have this optimal.34:04  Yeah. 100%.34:06  So we won't get into that. But guess what functional foods polyphenols do?34:10  Oh, you don't even tell me that. They also work on that side. They also work on that. It's almost like your body wants polyphenols.34:16  It's almost like your body wants polyphenols. And of course, while we're at it, I mean, it's like it's almost like no, no, now he's just going overboard. No, no, I mean, it's, trust me, I read every article. It's like I feel like I'm making stuff up. Now. It helps produce interferons. It helps control the toll like receptors.34:43  So means you're just a side note. interferon if anybody's ever dealt with early stage, melanoma, I mean, there are various cancers that you actually had to end up getting injections for interferon.34:54  I did I really thought you're gonna go if anybody's ever dealt with herpes. Now I'm dead serious. Yeah, like Libya isn't interferon?35:02  Absolutely. It isn't interferon. I'm just saying I guess what I was going is, is that35:07  if you've ever dealt with herpes, you kind of looked at me like, no.35:11  That's how I felt.35:16  But this is true. So drugs do this. You're exactly right. chemo drugs and drugs like a cycle of beer. They're their interferons. Yeah, because they block viruses. So polyphenols help increase the amount of interference when it's necessary. Correct. And by blocking the toll like receptors and controlling that. They actually decrease nuclear factor Kappa beta nfkb. We had that talk with Brocelite. So polyphenols and sulforaphane block, NF Kappa beta. So35:46  I was making sure that you're making contact with the people in the room. Do you think I was I was waving over somewhere else?35:52  I thought you were having a hallucination. So all right, so we blocked NF Kappa beta, which ultimately we know does the most major thing inflammation. So we've been saying a long time that the Mediterranean diet is an anti aging, anti inflammatory diet. Yes. This is why when Adele did her sert diet, this is why it works. You decrease overall inflammation, definitely the whole process. And because, oh, I skipped a little step here. But one thing that we always talk about is the potent antioxidant effects.36:33  Yeah, I'm glad you're getting this part because we're going to augment this little section here, too.36:37  Yeah. So tell me what you got to say about antioxidant.36:39  What is it immediately takes me back because ROS is something that Joe botel and we've referenced her on the show multiple times. But when she was talking specifically about long endurance athletes and how they get injury, and how certain people who are high performance athletes get injured and have a difficult time recovering, it's often because they don't have good control of their RMS or reactive oxygenation species. you're pointing at something, but I'm not on camera. Oh, I am now. So there we go. I didn't know that. There's no red lights in here, by the way. But I find that to be a really big key aspect about rlms. And what polyphenols do because she specifically said to it to decrease healing time and increase optimal athletic performance, high polyphenol concentration, or normal amount is a must, and that our bodies are simply waiting on enough polyphenols to do this job.37:34  Yes. 100%. So now the final part here is more of a vague, you get a picture camera now to fix the camera. You can't take me by surprise anymore. I mean, we can hire Mike to find our to find our podcast sponsors, but we can't even hire a good audio visual guy.37:50  I don't think that hot dog company comes with that.37:56  Alright, so we get down to this last thing here, which is chronic disease. So what we talked about low level inflammation. This is how you can protect yourself against heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia and obesity. And I put this one up as a general one, because we mentioned it a little bit, I want to talk about it right after this, about how large stable polyphenols I found an article that showed the more hydroxyl bonds on the outside, more beneficial is. That's why when we initially were developing Atrantil, and Dr. Bruce Burnett looked at this and said you picked the perfect poly phenol to be the most bioactive and most diverse.38:37  That's all he does. There's there's more points to do stuff. It's like more surfaces. It's more38:41  surface area. Exactly. And then in addition to that, we know that in all these articles, so if you're somebody you're like, Oh, I already take tumeric. I already take quercetin and that's awesome. Keep doing that. Yeah, keep doing that. But you have to understand something tumeric and quercetin don't get directly absorbed, they actually have to go to the microbiome where they get broken down into the metabolites. I've got articles to show what is the effective metabolite, of quercetin. So when Dr. Mark was talking about that, I want to tell him, that's awesome. But you better make sure that you have a good microbiome. So what this represents is the prebiotic ability of polyphenols to diversify your microbiome so that when you take these things, you're getting the appropriate we're gonna call them the appropriate metabolites. I call them post biotics, but we're gonna call him the appropriate metabolite.39:31  It's a honestly it's kind of like if, if you look at the way that he talked about ecgc, and, and tumeric, and trying to enforce it and etc. He broke all those down and talked about their beneficial natures as it pertains to inflammation. But what you're describing, if I can kind of put it into layman's terms, it's almost as if that is great. And you can get an Uber to have that delivered to somewhere and you hope it's a great car and you hope It gets you there comfortably. But in order for it to be effective and get there on time you want a private car you want the limousine. The limousine is the larger molecule, the all natural, larger parent molecule, if you will, kind of like what's in Atrantil and abbraccio to do that,40:17  exactly. So what you want to be able to do and what we're saying is not just supplements. Now, this is why you want to have a very colorful plate. That's why you want to have lots of fruits and vegetables. Yeah, continue to do that. Try to do every non GMO foods and vegetables. But when we're talking about polyphenols, very few things concentrate polyphenols, so when you're like, Oh, I heard Dr. Oz talked about reservatrol polyphenol. Oh, I heard someone so talk about Kirsten, polyphenol. Oh, but you know what? I drink green tea, polyphenol. Yeah. And they all get broken down. Here's what's fascinating. And I can't wait to do this. When we have Dr. Sylvia on her research is showing that you can produce quercetin egcg, which is green tea extract. You can produce the metabolites of curcumin and all these things from larger tannins. Yeah, that's what I mean, this is so fascinating, and your body knows how to do it. And you know what? I mean? Do me a favor, when you get done watching this, go to COVID? episode number two, because we did that in March. Yeah. And we were right, because we talked to scientists all the time. We're always doing this. So Sofia said, You know what, I'm gonna challenge you not to we will share the mic even though the You and I both been tested, like yesterday. Yeah, for COVID and we're negative, can you walk through and just explain what each one of these days does really quick, 41:30  I'm going to try Okay, so that a right there is going to prevent the virus itself that a if there's for the gut microbiome, that a I believe is going to prevent it from binding to that set of cells, that one is going to function as a zincionafor prevent or allowing zinc to go in and stop the replicates that is a mast cell that's going to help control the number of goodness gracious, I guess those little inflammatory markers that are going to go to the blood vessel braided cinans kind of There you go, and then be circulated which of course, we're going to regulate the amount of fluid that's going to leave the bloodstream and we're going to stop the amount of flags are gonna pop up as appropriate. Orders one, Oh, that one is a phagocytes, that's going to improve the the maturation of the phagocytes the one just below it is going to help the phagocytes since they are maturing more quickly, it's going to allow the them to display quicker and then it's going to regulate the number of cytokines which is TNF alpha, IL six, IL one and il eight. And I don't know if I'm gonna go through the mechanisms of those but that's okay. Oh, yeah, good, quick. TNF. Alpha is for the brain. IL six is for the bone and it's because of white blood cell maturation IL one is for infection and inflammatory things that come from the liver and i l eight, is what is going to basically start the cycle all over again, where the fluid is, is being summoned and redness, swelling and pain.42:55  Excellent. Stage three.42:56  Okay, that's the presenting. Yeah, it is. And that's where the cells dying, we get to oxygen a oxidative stress. Yeah, it says that. But we need to control our ros because it's not the RO S is bad. Too much ros, though, can lead to long term heart disease, cancer, aging, autoimmune dementia, obesity, and adaptive antibodies, we aren't going to go all the way through there. But essentially, aside from the innate immune system, we need help in the adaptive immune system as well.43:28  It would be fascinating to see what the antibody levels of people that are vaccinated if you're scientists out there on your on your cool study will supply you with some big polyphenols and see if people mount a better antibody response. If it lasts longer. These are all just fascinating questions. What's this?43:45  So when we get over here to TLR, we this is what is going to function as another flag zone, where we're going to signal the liver to then produce interferon, which functions to fight cancers and all kinds of different things like that. And then we have NF kb. We've talked about this extensively, whenever we had Brock elite on the show, both john and David was gonna say, Robert, but it's David Roberts on the show. And essentially, what we want to do is not have this gigantic burst of TNF alpha, and IL six because it's just going to turn into more inflammation. And again, Polly finos once again, aren't going to abandon you. They're still going to work even on that end. Okay.44:32  You're so much smarter than I thought you were. Nice job.44:36  I just remember a lot.44:38  Can you hear me on this one?44:39  Yeah, yeah, that was never good.44:41  You can probably take the headphones off now to show everybody. So did that make sense? I44:47  think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's a lot of information. Not everybody is going to just readily walk away, like we just did from it, but watch it several times. I think though, really what we're trying to show here is that We don't want to just say that we don't want to just say that polyphenols they'll work with with viral or bacterial infection. This is something that I wish more people would do you tell me that something works. Just explain how show me how how do you know that it's going to work? And I'm not saying that people don't have markers or blood enzymes or circulating things that they measure, they see things go down. That's important that lets you know that we're on the right track. But this kind of stuff, this kind of research that you've been sifting through with Angie, is just awesome. Because now it's almost like putting a name to the face. We can see how it's working. Exactly. So I think it's important. 45:41  And this doesn't just stop here because you know, Angie's episode, people, it's really being shared a lot. Oh, yeah, just people if you have pots or Ehlers danlos or CBOE or anything, people thousands of downloads on the podcast, by the way. Yeah. And she describes how when you have NF Kappa beta up, yeah, you're gonna have decreased acetylcholine when TNF alpha like this is all the balance in that. Yeah. The key is to see the colon whenever Yeah, but that's a whole separate conversation. This is strictly on the innate immune system, right. And so I find it fascinating. I find it fascinating that when I listen to another doctor talk about this, and I'm like that I very much like, very much like me, like, I'll listen to stuff and the patients will ask me, they're like, hey, do you know about this? And I'm like, I don't have the bandwidth and the time to do it. That's awesome, which is why I kind of tasked or I didn't task. She did it on her own, which is why Angie learned so much about dysautonomia, like I just don't have that in me right now or the time to do it. And she crushed it. Yeah. And one of the what we've been emailing, she's been emailed by so many people, she's gonna keep going, she's gonna end up writing a book and probably saving a lot of people. And so this is this is first step, innate immune system. I tell all my patients, let's exercise a little I don't care what you do, just get up off the couch and move around, right? Doesn't really matter what, don't eat highly processed foods, like high fructose corn syrup, soybean oil, anything, you're open in a package, read the label, because that breaks down that Mary, Mary Mary first step, which is gut health. All health begins and ends in the gut, definitely. And then get your polyphenols, get a little sun, get some sleep. Do you do that? That's better than what's better than most are doing.47:32  I mean, it really is. And it's, it seems complicated. And but in the end, the actionable items really aren't that complicated.47:41  I mean, when we're in some weird times, I mean, let's be honest, we're taping this episode. The day after we had that weird thing that happened last night or yesterday where47:51  you didn't get your change back at the store. I didn't47:53  get my change back. I'm still upset about that. The lady was clearly distracted, because apparently our government was overrun by48:02  Oh, yeah, that was a big deal. Yeah.48:05  And so these are stressful times. Yeah, we got to keep the inflammation down. There's nothing to cause inflammation. Yeah, don't, don't bring it upon yourself. Don't eat bad. Don't lose sleep, and make sure that you get your polyphenols.48:17  To my knowledge, polyphenols won't directly help bad politics, but maybe those politicians could use some more polyphenols and they wouldn't act so crazy.48:26  Oh my gosh, don't even get me started. Because what I want to do, and I believe that this will be the future we're gonna be sitting here 50 years from now we're gonna look the same because of the anti aging qualities of polyphenols. The 50 years from now we're gonna be like, wasn't that great that they put psilocybin in the water so that we all treat each other nice. You know? It's so you're just gonna pull up instead of Starbucks, you're gonna pull up to MDMA cafes? And I'm not kidding. Like the research on that is like, we're gonna go there also. Yeah, there. Somebody joined at baby bathwater Dr. Raven, I was reading his profile, really cool. And we're gonna I'm gonna try to bring him on here. But he's got a device called an Apollo device, which vibrates when you're not breathing appropriately, which means if and we're gonna do a whole episode on breath work, and we got our we just got all kinds of cool stuff to do. But you can't, you can't leave this hanging like, this is important. Look at all those. Look at all those one last time here. Let's just look at the amount of places.49:29  Places I'm just counting right now. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 19 20 looks like there's almost 20 things out there49:40  that I found in a guy like Bruce Burnett, sitting at home, he's like, there's 38 you're missing the critical ones. 38 on line one. I know. Well, this is this is what you get when you let a doctor try and try and try and describe this.49:54  Yeah, but seriously, I think the takeaway here is that we can put there's no Muscle behind the message there, it really does work. And this is not specific to any one virus or any one bacteria. This is what your body needs in order for your immune system to work efficiently just so happens, that it works really, really well for what a lot of people are concerned about.50:18  It does and you just came up with a whole new idea. But as we close this out I think I'm gonna attach this next time I do a hemorrhoid on a patient so we can hear50:27  the hemorrhoid. Be sure that requires some type of consent. But yeah, I think it's awesome.50:34  All right. So thank you, everyone, for listening to this. I hope that this is something that makes some sense, please share it, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to the I guess all the other platforms, iTunes and Spotify and 50:52  we are honestly the run on Atrantil at the KBMD store has been kind of intense over the last two months. So number one, thanks for everyone for sharing all the information here recently we're doing all that we can to bring that part back online but we'll have an associated discount probably with this particular show. Just in general with with the immune system. Yeah, and as soon as that rolls out, then we'll make that available and all the show notes etc.51:15  Totally and thank you diarrhea dogs for this episode go to diarrhea dogs.com put in code Mike for a 98% discount.51:26  I can't wait to find out what people email in and say what's it diarrhea dogs.com.51:33  Remember, it's code Mike, for 98% discount.51:39  I think it's probably gonna do it for us. Thank you all for joining us on the gut check project please like and share and we will see y'all with 48 with some continuation on the immune system. Talk to you then51:49  bye bye. Thank you.

00:00 Voter fraud, https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1332920839235399681 02:00 White noise documentary 20:00 How Biden Won: Ramping Up The Base And Expanding Margins In The Suburbs, https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/935730100/how-biden-won-ramping-up-the-base-and-expanding-margins-in-the-suburbs 34:00 For Trump advocate Sidney Powell, a playbook steeped in conspiracy theories, https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/sidney-powell-trump-kraken-lawsuit/2020/11/28/344d0b12-2e78-11eb-96c2-aac3f162215d_story.html 58:00 The 5% wignats cost Trump the election? 1:08:40 Sam Harris discusses President Trump's failure to concede the 2020 presidential election 1:22:40 Shane Burley, the Wolves of Vinland, and Jack Donovan 1:27:00 TFW No GF 1:29:00 Donald Trump will Complete the System of German Idealism 1:32:00 Richard Spencer, Brad Griffin (Hunter Wallace) on the long MAGA 1:42:00 Black american nationalist Tariq Nasheed being racially prejudiced toward a sub saharan Congolese-American 1:52:00 Whoopi Goldberg Interviews Tom Metzger of White Aryan Resistance, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG-XgxBbOGI 2:04:20 Richard Spencer praises Nick Fuentes 2:06:00 Kenneth Brown returns, https://twitter.com/jokkull 2:21:40 Vaush vs Ryan Dawson 2:23:00 R. Yaron Reuven says Jewish schools must discriminate 2:52:00 Dominion Exec Eric Coomer — ‘Don't worry, Trump's not gonna win, I made F-ing sure of that!', https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/dominion-exec-eric-coomer-dont-worry-trumps-not-gonna-win-i-made-f-ing-sure-of-that/ 3:02:30 LAT: ‘Why won't Black folks trust us' on COVID-19? These doctors and nurses have answers, https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-11-29/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-black-doctors-nurses-racism-healthcare 3:08:00 Jonathan Rauch on information warfare Join this channel to get access to exclusive videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join Listener Call In #: 1-310-997-4596 Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

Dr. Jill talks with renounced gastroenterologist and creator of Atrantil Dr. Kenneth Brown on gut health and leaky gut and leaky brain

About Dr. Brown Dr. Ken Brown received his medical degree from the University of Nebraska Medical School, and completed his fellowship in Gastroenterology in San Antonio Texas. He is a board certified gastroenterologist and has been in practice for the past 15 years with a clinical focus on inflammatory bowel disease and irritable bowel syndrome. For the last 10 years he has been conducting clinical research for various pharmacologic companies. During this time, he saw the unmet need for something natural that could help his IBS patients find real relief. After working on the development of Atrantil for over 6 years Atrantil launched in the summer of 2015. Dr. Brown and his research team developed Atrantil with the intent of helping those suffering from the symptoms of IBS which we now know are caused by bacterial overgrowth. Learn More About Dr. Brown For info on Atrantil lovemytummy.com For info on Dr. Brown KBMD.com Today's episode was brought to you by BookNotes Get Smarter Faster By Visiting > https://booknotes.page.link/dailygrind For a FREE 7-Day Trial

There's no easy way to say it: Bloating causes more pain and discomfort for people than loose stools or constipation. And in the same vein, it's more beneficial for our bodies if we treat the root cause of bloating before treating for the symptoms of the colon.

On this episode, The 1st edition of the "FREE4ALL"... An episode with no agenda, just friends getting together and talking about whatever comes up... Nola and Kenneth Brown from "Ear Splitting Media" and Derek A. Davis and Robert C Howard V from "Dongle" stop by the studio for some Monday night Shenanigans and more ha... Much Love, Enjoy :)   

Kenneth Brown has been a real estate broker for the past 25 years and his team has bought and sold over $1 Billion Dollar in Commercial Real Estate. Ken holds the prestigious CCIM designation (Certified Commercial Investment Member), the highest designation in commercial real estate one can achieve. Key Takeaways: [2:45] The start of Ken's real estate journey [5:08] Ken walks you through his first commercial transaction [7:32] How Ken found his first deal (and it wasn't through a listing) [9:04] How little Ken had to raise rent on his storage units to drastically increase the value of the facility [11:57] Whether there are still deals for the mom and pop investor in storage facilities [14:12] The word that best describes the search for a storage unit deal [15:32] What you should know about triple net leases and why it would be attractive to investors [17:45] How you can use triple net deals to make 12-18% cash on cash return [20:20] Where a new investor without much money can find investors rather easily [21:15] Where you can find triple net deals [23:27] The typical structure of a triple net deal [25:44] Picking which asset class to be in [28:08] What happens with your triple net lease if the big companies (like Circuit City and Barnes & Noble) go under Websites Mentioned: www.triplenetcompanies.com www.cresuccessacademy.com