Podcast appearances and mentions of Seth Godin

Author Casper ter Kuile on transforming everyday writing into a sacred ritual, drawing on rest and reflection to fuel creativity, and moving past self-doubt to write as a gift for others. You'll learn Why the point of the work week might be the rest, not the other way around. How to turn an ordinary daily habit into a ritual using three simple ingredients. What a weekly tech sabbath can unlock in your most creative thinking. The reframe that turns a dreadful first draft into something you can build on. A piece of advice from a mentor that dissolves the pressure to say something new. How reading writers you love can quietly refill the tank when you're stuck. Why treating your writing as a gift changes the way you handle criticism. The practice for staying humble and kind toward yourself in equal measure. What sacred reading traditions can teach you about going deeper into any text. Why the smallest groups, not the biggest audiences, are where meaning actually forms. Resources & Links Casper ter Kuile's website The Power of Ritual by Casper ter Kuile The Nearness Harry Potter and the Sacred Text (podcast) Sacred Design Lab "How We Gather" report The Sabbath by Abraham Joshua Heschel Seth Godin About Casper ter Kuile Casper ter Kuile is the author of The Power of Ritual and the co-founder of The Nearness: a space to explore life's big questions with like-hearted others. Casper holds Masters in Public Policy and Divinity from Harvard University, is the former cohost of popular podcast Harry Potter and the Sacred Text, and loves harmony singing, the London Review of Books, and arriving at the pub after a long country walk. He lives with his husband in Brooklyn, NY. For show notes, transcripts and to attend our live podcasts visit: podcast.londonwriterssalon.com.For free writing sessions, join free Writers' Hours: writershour.com.*FOLLOW LONDON WRITERS' SALONTwitter: twitter.com/​​WritersSalonInstagram: instagram.com/londonwriterssalonFacebook: facebook.com/LondonWritersSalonIf you're enjoying this show, please rate and review this show!

How can building an audience in advance help your stories reach the people who make movies? And how can you prove there's demand for your book or screenplay before you've written it? Brooks Elms shares his advice after more than 20 years as a WGA screenwriter. In the intro, what doesn't work for book marketing and what does [Amy Chan SubStack; Unsingle; Rephonic]; Goodreads giveaway for Bones of the Deep; FutureVision XPrize. This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Brooks Elms is a WGA screenwriter with over 45 scripts, over a dozen sales, and he has directed two indie features. He is the creator of the Answer the Call system and has trained over 1,000 writers. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes How to see the opportunity in AI when others only see the threat How to test a story with samples, and what a 16-second movie can do Building the trailer before you write the screenplay Letting your audience finance the film once they have validated the idea Why Hollywood still wants existing IP, and what makes them pay attention Feeling safe enough to write the truth, and finding a concrete path forward You can find Brooks on LinkedIn or email him at brooks@brookselms.com. Transcript of the interview with Brooks Elms Jo: Brooks Elms is a WGA screenwriter with over 45 scripts, over a dozen sales, and he has directed two indie features. He is the creator of the Answer the Call system and has trained over 1,000 writers. So welcome to the show, Brooks. Brooks: Thank you. It's awesome to be here. Jo: Fantastic. So first up— Tell us a bit more about you and how you got into screenwriting. Brooks: I started filmmaking first. A buddy came up to me in high school and said, “Hey, we're making a karate movie, do you want to help us?” I was like, “Oh my God, yes, that sounds amazing.” So next thing I know, I had this karate outfit on, and we were just making this completely ridiculous and totally fun movie, and it was amazing. It was so fun. Then it went to a whole other level when we shared it with a friend, this guy Jay Sharon, and he watched the movie and he laughed so hard he literally fell out of his chair. I was like, “Oh my God,” the fun I had making it could actually transfer to somebody else. I was hooked. So from there I went to NYU film school, and then made a few independent feature films which were good but not great in terms of how they were received. They were great for me in terms of enjoyment, but I knew I needed to iterate faster at that point. So then I was like, “Well, it's expensive and it takes a long time to make a movie,” at least back then. So I pivoted to screenwriting, and pumped out two, three scripts a year, got signed at UTA, got writing assignments, and basically launched a screenwriting career. Then I still tried to get some stuff going, but it's hard when movies are so expensive. It's not hard, it's just that it takes a lot of precision in the marketing, and a lot of conversations to find the right matches to finance something, and you're either interested in doing that or you're not. I just was like, “Well, I'll just mostly write screenplays.” Then I started teaching at UCLA Extension and then coaching after that, along with writing. Then all the way up to the future. What's great about moving forward is that with AI, shot-making is becoming very close to cinematic quality. You can actually match cinematic quality in moments in some genres, but probably by next year. Right now you could actually do a really good horror movie all AI for 10, 20,000 bucks, depending on how much you're doing yourself or getting other people to do. So the economics are going to absolutely explode. So I'm sitting on dozens of scripts that didn't get through the Hollywood packaging bottleneck because they're too expensive, and I now have this giant slate that's ready to go, and I'm just absolutely thrilled. It's been a lifelong dream for me. Jo: Oh, so much to come back on there. Where to start? I do want to talk about what you just said there, sitting on dozens of scripts and now seeing the opportunity. I actually wrote down in my journal about a year ago, I see what's coming with AI, and I think that the best thing I can do is create as much original IP as possible, so that I can make the most of the opportunity ahead. So let's just get into the AI, because a lot of people feel it's a super bad thing. Talk about the opportunities and the attitude that you've got [around AI], and that you've seen others have around this, for what is ahead in a positive way. Brooks: It's fascinating to see how people respond to AI. I wonder, when the printing press rolled around, if there was some sort of backlash. Books must be handwritten. They can't be mass-produced. Here's one of my theories. At a deep psychological level, it's so profoundly powerful that I think the default setting is, “Oh, crap.” When I was a kid, some things were hard, and that power imbalance, when something big, new and powerful comes along: I'm going to get screwed, and so this is somehow a bad thing. I think that's the base psychological thing going on with most of the noise. Obviously there are some legit problems, in terms of copyright infringement from learning models, or from some of the environmental situation. So I'm not saying it's all rainbows and butterflies, but I think 90% of the noise around it comes from a fear of change. Here's the other one—a fear of, “Oh, yikes, I'm going to get taken advantage of somehow by either robots, or the corporations are going to use the robots against me,” or something like that. I have real empathy for me when I feel that way a little bit, but I don't feel it much, and for other people that do feel it. The other thing is, you know what it is? I think they fear their own empowerment even more. I had a therapist who was really good. He said, people aren't so much afraid of failing as they are afraid of succeeding. Because if we fail, we're stuck in act one and we don't go anywhere. The fear is answering the call and going to act two, when everything effing changes in the new world. So I think people are afraid of how goddamn powerful they're going to be when they can have a team of AI agents helping them do everything they want in business or life or whatever. I think it's the same thing with the internet. People are like, “Oh, I don't like social media, blah, blah, blah.” And I get it. There's a lot of noise and a lot of crap. Yet we have access to billions of people, and the algorithms in social media right now I think are level three out of 10. They're just going to get better and better. Even as it is now, if I do a post about something and it gets ignored, that's on me. The algorithms are trying to match me to my people. So if I'm not unique enough and authentic enough and aware enough of how virality works, that's on me, and it's a learnable skill that I can embrace and then change and then get better at. So I think people then resist that change. They resist the empowerment of learning the art of virality, or learning the art of some sort of social media stuff or whatever. The last thing I'll say about this rant is, I don't want to act like I'm the guru on the hill that has all the answers. I refuse calls all the time. I'm scared about all sorts of things. I'm certainly not perfect. I feel frustrated when I'm trying to put my big ideas into action and I can't get this technology thing to work or that one, and I throw tantrums. I'm trying to come at it from a real human perspective, but by and large, I've got stars in my eyes. I'm like, “This is amazing. This is going to be so powerful.” For so many people, you just have to be ready to embrace it and just go along for the ride, because there's going to be some big-ass changes. There already are, and that's going to accelerate. Jo: You mentioned there learning the art of whatever it is. One of the things is, I've spent 20 years, and so have you, learning our craft and our art, and now it can be done very easily. I'm generating video, as you mentioned, which is a craft I haven't spent 20 years on, but now I can generate. So things have definitely changed in that way. Just coming to the screenwriting side. Probably about a decade ago now, I did my first screenwriting course. I've written screenplays. Then I looked at the game you have to play and, like you said, the conversations you have to have, the events you have to go and network at, all the things that you have to do to put a screenplay in front of the right person at the right time. I was like, “I cannot do that. It's just not going to happen. I can't do that along with everything else.” So I put it aside, but now I feel maybe it's time to bring it back because things are changing. So can you maybe talk about, if someone has a screenplay now that they've written, or some IP like a book that they have now— What would you recommend people do in terms of wanting to get that [IP] in front of somebody, or doing something with it themselves? Brooks: It's such a good question. By the way, not even a screenplay—you could do the same things with a novel. Let me try to be succinct here, which is a good challenge for me. A simple way to look at it is, you're giving samples. Let's say it's a lemonade stand, and you give out a little shot of your… maybe you have cayenne pepper lemonade, some sort of fun lemonade. If you give out a sample and people are into it, they're going to come back and they're going to tell friends. If you give a sample of the lemonade and they're not into it, then you go back to the kitchen and you mix up a different flavour. So that's some basic business, but the internet allows us to do that at scale. So what I like to encourage people to do when I coach them is come up with the minimum viable material. It can be a 10-second clip. There's a writer in my community who made a really beautiful 16-second movie. It's one shot. I love it so much. It's two wine glasses. There's a lipstick smudge on one of the wine glasses. They're half full, and it's just that shot. It's sitting there, and all of a sudden you hear this thundering, thumping down these stairs, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Then you see out of the corner of the frame one person runs by, and then the other person behind her runs by and goes, “Wait.” That's it. That's the whole movie. It's 16 seconds. He did that with his phone. So there's so much going on. There's a couple of basic elements, but he just did it with his phone, and you can evoke enormous emotional impact on people through social media, whether it's just words. You guys have a big advantage as novelists because you're so good with words. Whether it's a little bit longer, like sudden fiction, that's a couple of pages or whatever. Even just copywriters are really in a good position for the future because they're super potent with two words or three words or 10 words. Then novelists are probably really advantageous because it doesn't cost anything to just put some words out on the internet. The point is, if you put something out, it's a signal, and you're talking about billions of people who could find that signal. If you do it and then you look at the response, and then you try again, you look at the response, we can do this iteration infinitely for free. So you can do it already. You've been able to do it for 10, 15, 20 years, just with words. But now you're going to basically be able to do that with movies or clips or trailers. So the thing that I'm leading in my community of writers is having people build trailers in advance, or clips. When a book or a movie is done, how the heck do we get people to see it? One way is a trailer or some sort of behind-the-scenes material. You can just do that stuff now before even writing the screenplay. I saw that you were doing this project, a trailer for this competition. And then you mentioned, “Oh, I've got to write the screenplay.” Not really. You have to develop the story enough to know what you're referring to, and then it's about studying the craft of either trailer construction, or whatever the clips are, or viral clips. They all have a structure, and then you just test it. If you enjoy that testing process, which I find absolutely thrilling, it feels like the filmmaking version of a stand-up comedian. If I did stand-up, I say a joke, they laugh or they don't laugh. It's really beautiful feedback from the universe. Nerve-wracking, right? But we can do that now as storytellers. We put a story out there in any format, and the audience responds. Just like you have to read any room, you have to learn how to read the engagement on social media. What do likes mean? What do shares mean? What do comments mean? How do you deal with trolls? All that is just part of the new art. Once you get good at it, holy smokes, that's the key to the kingdom. You can build audiences in advance, and for movies you could even have them finance your movie in advance, if you've built an email list of 20,000, 30,000, 40,000 people because you kept putting out all these viral clips around your story, novel, or screenplay. Then you go, “Okay, now 30,000 people are on my email list and I tell them about me and my perspective and my world. We're going to make this darn thing with AI for 20,000 bucks. You guys have got to pony up some money. Put in a dollar, five, 10, or you get the VIP $500 experience.” It's like crowdfunding, but much more sophisticated, because most crowdfunding was like begging friends and family to donate to your crazy dream. What I'm talking about is going to the audience directly, developing enough of the story, then going to the audience second, and then only when they validate the idea, to the extent that you're happy with. You could do a crazy idea that's going to have a small audience, and you don't have to have a blockbuster audience. You get to pick the audience size that you want, and then put the samples out there and see if you have a relevant audience size for this next project. Once the audience tells you, “Yes, we want this,” then you go make it. So you're ultimately reducing risk to almost zero. It takes time and you have to learn how to do this stuff, but it's thrilling to me because we just have the capacity to test the material and listen to the audience upfront. The last thing I'll say, and I've rambled a lot, I'm sorry. When I made a movie in 1994, a feature film right out of NYU, it took me three years to find out what the audience thought about that movie. I had to make the damn thing, and then I ran out of money, and that took me years to edit it, and I finally got it, blah, blah, blah. And again, I loved it. I loved every facet of it, and it was fine, but it was super inefficient. Today, I could take those same elements, create an AI trailer this weekend, put it in front of hundreds of thousands of people, and they could tell me right away, “This sucks,” or, “This is interesting,” or, “Holy smokes, this is amazing. I want this.” If it's not, “Holy smokes, this is amazing, I want it,” I can go ahead and re-edit the whole damn trailer, and just keep reiterating at almost no cost. Then once the demand is there, I can take that demand and that audience and go to Hollywood, and that's when they're going to want to work with me. Then it doesn't take a million conversations and finding the needle in the haystack, because Hollywood sees the numbers and they go, “Oh, you're the people we do want to do business with. You've proven demand. We want to do business with you.” Jo: Yes, it's so interesting. I can hear people listening and they're like, “Easier said than done, getting an email list of 40,000 people.” And in fact— It's exactly the same as building up a career as an independent author. This is as a filmmaker, as a visual person, and the industry is visual, so doing a visual trailer is the obvious thing. And as you say, the tools I use just to do this one, I use Midjourney, and I've used Seedance as the main video model. It does take a while, but it is pretty fast now, if you have a visual image of what you want in your head, which obviously you're a visual person as well. But is it… Brooks: Hold on. I want to push back on that a little bit, because I think it's really important. So yes, that's true, but underneath that, my friend, it's a relationship. It's the relationship, and the media is secondary. You have been prolific in connecting with your audience, and that's why I think a lot of people like you, because you share and they get to know you in that sort of cadence. I saw you in another podcast, you mentioned Seth Godin, who just said, “Hey, I want to be the type of person that has this relationship with my audience. I'm going to share some of my thoughts every day.” He happened to do it with words, with his background in marketing, but you could do the same thing with still images. You could do the same thing with a five-second movie clip once a week. It's the relationship you want with your fans. I'm not saying you snap your fingers and you have 50,000 people on your email list. What I'm saying is, what else are you doing? If we're artists and our impulse is to create and share, and if you do it in this way, if I can create and share and inspire trust in this relationship with a stranger because they like my genre thing and they like the way they felt when they experienced my media, words, images, movies, it doesn't matter. They just like the feeling, and they go, “Ooh, I want more of that feeling. How do I get more of that? Oh, this person has this email list or community.” If I can do it with one, then I can scale it out. So getting the first one, or the first 5 or 10 samples, that is a whole process. But then once you do that, scaling up is more of a mechanical thing. It's not even that hard, especially when you can do paid ads. So you can scale up very quickly if you have the sauce. If you don't have the sauce, it doesn't matter who you're related to, you've got to get the sauce right. Jo: Yes, and again, it's so parallel to the indie author community. I've just got to ask you, in the olden days, an author might write a screenplay, or a screenwriter write a screenplay, and then they would send it. They'd find an agent. They'd pitch an agent, and I guess then they'd hope that someone would turn that into a movie. So is that just dead now? Is it realistically that you need to get yourself out there, build the audience in the same way that it often is for authors? Brooks: So, no. I've got two screenplay deals going right now. So here's how it's going to work. Think about Broadway, or the theatre district in Britain. It's like West End or East End or whatever… Jo: The West End. Brooks: Sorry for my American ignorance. West End, okay. So every town on the planet has a stage, but there's only one Broadway, there's only one West End, right? And every town has its own festival, but there are a few significant tastemakers. There's Cannes, there's Sundance, there's Toronto. Hollywood is always going to be a tastemaker in our lifetime, for sure. What they don't have anymore, what they enjoyed for the first 100 years of the industry, is that they had a stranglehold on basically the equipment, the financing, and the audience, and that's all going away. Do you want to hear a fun story about the birth of cinema? Do you know why Hollywood started in Hollywood? Jo: No. Brooks: So Thomas Edison invented the camera, or the type of model camera that they were using in, I don't know, 1910 or something around there. They didn't want to pay his patent. They didn't want to pay the patent to make these movies, so they went all the way across the country, a bunch of outlaws, and they set up shop in California because he couldn't enforce his patent that they were basically stealing. And reason number two, LA enjoys amazing weather almost all year round. The weather here is either nice or really nice. You have mountains, you have beach, you have desert, you have all these different locales. So when it was really important to be on location, LA was the perfect place. Anyway, that is all going away. For many decades, more people could make movies. In the early '90s, Robert Rodriguez made a movie for 9,000 bucks. There was a book in the '80s that I bought that I loved, it was Feature Filmmaking at Used-Car Prices. This guy, Rick Schmidt, I think his name was. There were the independent filmmakers really in the '60s and the '70s. So the cost has been going down and down and down, and now it's less than ever. Once social media came along, now you have access to the audience, so why do you even need Hollywood? That being said, there are tons of people. There are 400,000 people already working in the movie and the TV industry here. And they're voracious. We have a voracious demand. Humans need stories. We need big stories, long stories. We need stories, and Hollywood is so good at giving them stories. And so they have a need for these things, and they're still spending a lot of money on those budgets. So yes, there's still a demand for turning books and optioning them and turning them into movies. Books are great. Any sort of existing IP is great because there are marketing efficiencies there. People already know that stuff, know the vibe of it, and so it's easier to market than something that's totally creative and new. When you're spending that much money, you want those marketing efficiencies. They're really important. So the point being, the power is shifting away from Hollywood. Hollywood will still be a tastemaker, but you and me can reach anybody on the planet now. Almost. Billions of people. If it's making a movie, right now you could make a movie that most people wouldn't realise is an AI movie. If it was a horror film, I know a handful of people that could make a feature-length horror film right now with AI and 99% of the audience couldn't tell, if it was professionally written. Jo: I think the point here though is, I'm an author, the people listening are authors, and we don't want to make movies. We want to license our IP to people who want to make movies. Brooks: Yes. Great. Okay, good. So then you could, if you wanted, build an audience. Hollywood loves when something's already proven, so that's that IP thing, right? So if you just have a great book, then it's all about the sales. You guys have Dragons' Den, we have Shark Tank here. And what's amazing about that show is these are people or entrepreneurs pitching an idea, and there's an amazing rhythm that happens. They say, “We've got this great idea. It's this sort of company.” And the sharks, or the dragons, will listen. And there's a huge turning point when they reveal sales. They're either really excited about the idea and then they go, “Well, how are the sales?” And the person goes, “Well, we don't have any sales yet.” And they go, “Uh,” and they're not interested. Or they might even be like, “Eh, it doesn't seem like a good idea.” And they're like, “Well, how are the sales?” And they're like, “Oh, well, we've sold through the roof.” And then all of a sudden they perk up. So it's all about the sales. So step one is writing something that you want. Step two is making sure other people in your target audience are also loving it as much as you do. Step three is proving in some way at scale that there's real demand for it. So you could do that with trailers, you could do that with clips, you can do that as an indie publisher. There's all sorts of things that you can do. Humans are much more persuaded by concrete data than they are by just vibes. So if you can bring Hollywood concrete data of any type, like viral videos, like audience, like obviously bestsellers. Awards mean something, but not quite as much as sales. Then you're going to get Hollywood's attention because that reduces risk for them. So even now, when Hollywood's definitely shrinking and contracting, there's still very significant money being spent because it's a huge demand. If you ever walk around a studio lot, those things are opulent places. It's stunning. Like, how are they paying for all this stuff? These lots are enormous. It's because humanity is voracious for stories, and movies are one premium type of storytelling. The demand for stories is steady if not going up. It's just that we have a wider variety of types of stories that we can do, whether we're an indie author. So anyway, did I answer the question? You get me too excited with these questions, Jo. It's a problem. Jo: Yes. I think there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of ways in, but the parallels with being an indie author I think are quite clear. One of the things I found interesting about your profile and what you do is that you help clients who are already accomplished but not quite breaking through, and that sounds like a lot of mid-list indie authors, probably a lot of mid-list screenwriters, mid-list filmmakers. This is a hard place to be because, on the one hand, we are grateful for what we have achieved and what we can do, and yet wanting more, wanting that big Hollywood deal or the Netflix deal, or wanting the massive bestseller or whatever. So if someone wants to get to that next level, what are some of the ways that they can perhaps try and get there? Brooks: It's a great question. Coaching is a really wonderful way to learn anything of this sort of complexity and challenge, especially if it's a hyper-competitive business. We need two things, I think, to write a great novel or screenplay or both. A, we need to feel profoundly safe in our space. If we can't really feel deeply authentic about the things that are embarrassing, or that we feel shame about, or just our shadows, or anything that we don't feel completely comfortable saying and sharing in public usually. We need to be able to touch those things, and be articulate about those things, and that's one part of it. Then we need a concrete path forward. Maybe you're thinking about some tragedy that you had in childhood, and how you dealt with it and how difficult that was. So you need to be able to be real precise in those observations about what it felt like, and how you tried to compensate for it, and that didn't work and it made it worse. Whatever your observations are about your life journey, you need to be really specific and really deeply felt. A good coaching relationship allows you to be in that space, to be really honest with yourself and authentic. g Aood coach will push you back and say, “You know what? That sounds interesting, but maybe not quite as true to you deeply.” So that's one piece of it. Then there's a concrete path forward. You need to have the emotional access to that truth, and then you need to know what to do with that truth in a step-by-step way. Because most people, the ones that you're talking about, they're accomplished in something else. What happens is when we first start writing, and maybe this happens with novelists, but for sure it happens to screenwriters, you just start typing words. But you haven't really thought through the theme, the concept, the structure, the character, all the deeper questions that really matter. The milestones, like a North Star: winning a major award, or getting a publisher. That's the direction that we're heading towards, and then you set it and forget it, but you want to keep checking it every week, every month or whatever. But you want it very specific. “I would like to sell a book, or sell a book to Hollywood, or write a screenplay, or get a producer attached to a screenplay.” Whatever the milestone is, make it really specific, really concrete, and then reverse engineer. This is what I do on the concrete path. I reverse engineer every step to get there, starting with a really tiny one we can do today, and I make sure they feel really safe, and then we just walk through. Then what happens is, if you do that, if you feel safe, if you're showing up authentically and you have a process that's repeatable, not just willy-nilly, it's got to be something that's proven to work. It wasn't an accident I wrote 45 scripts. I've got a whole system. But by the way, the first five scripts took me forever. The last movie that I made took me three years to write that script. I can write a better script with those same elements in three months now, because I know I have a concrete path. So if you want to do something new, whether it's playing the piano or getting six-pack abs or writing a screenplay, work with somebody who's got a system that's already proven, and make sure you relate to them, and then just follow the system. Then when the doubts come up, and they will, that's where the feeling safe is really important. Because, oh, I want the six-pack abs, but I don't feel like going to the gym. I want the extra donut. If I'm working with a really good trainer, they go, “Dude, do you want the six-pack abs or not?” And then you go back and forth, and I go, “Okay, now I can make peace with myself and say I can take one tiny bite of the donut and then still do my workout,” and then I'm moving towards that North Star. Does that make sense? Jo: Yes. I think, like many independents, I resist anything that is systematised. I'm a discovery writer, and I follow the muse, and all of that kind of thing. I think I would say something in a similar vein, which is sustainable creativity for the long term, because your 45 scripts are also years of work, and my books are years of work, and we get better at what we do. So my system, I do have a system really, because— My system is that I do the work, and I write my stories, and I get them out there, and I do the marketing. So even if it's not as systematised as such, it's still a process that I have repeated over and over again. Brooks: That's fascinating to me. Would you consider yourself a pantser? You're like, “I've got an idea,” and you just start writing? Jo: I don't use the word pantser. I guess I call it discovery writing, which is… Brooks: That's a better term. Jo: Yes. What I'm writing for this prize, for example, I know the characters, I know now what's happening. When I had the idea, it was very much a vision and a theme, and the competition has a theme: a positive future with AI and technology. But the things that came around that, I then started playing with ideas around the treatment. I haven't written the screenplay yet. I don't do a plot, or I don't follow Save the Cat or any of that kind of thing. When I write a novel, I just explore and I never write in order. Then at some point I stop and then I have to think about the structure and putting it all together, so the edits are quite big. But my fun is in that discovery, really. Brooks: Oh, that's awesome. Okay, so let me ask, that's really fascinating. And by the way, that doesn't, to me, negate the system that I use. The one that I use is ultimately… the thing is, these questions, the audience is wanting your unique answers to. You don't necessarily need to do it in a certain order. I think that's actually really cool that you write out of order and you have a few elements in mind. All that stuff sounds awesome. The only thing that then makes me curious is, how's your pace? Are you actually completing novels at a pace that feels good, or do you feel like you go too fast, too slow? Jo: I do one or two a year at the moment. Well, two a year, really. But I would say I'm not as successful as I'd like to be, so I'm not saying that my system is the best. I'm saying I want to be better. It's just that my fun is this sort of creative chaos, which I then try and control later. One of the things I really like about screenplays and treatments and doing this kind of thing for film is that it is much more structured, I think, than a 70,000-word novel. You can go in all kinds of directions, whereas with screenwriting you do have to be more disciplined really. Brooks: Yes, so this is going to be fun probably, to hear my view for your audience, and the differences as I see them. For starters, you're talking about what, 10, 20, 30 hours reading a novel sometimes, or maybe less, whereas a movie's a 90-minute experience, right? So that's different. Or if it's a TV series, you might see an hour and then an hour. So that's a very different experience. What happens is when it's condensed like that, you're loading up layers. So every scene is stacked with exposition beneath the drama, and done in a certain way. So specifically, movies are only what you can see and only what you hear. Whereas novels, if you can think it, you can write it, it can be in there. So you don't need to have a plot, but if you want to sell your book to Hollywood, it helps. So I was very resistant about structure. I went to NYU film school, where we really just made short films. It was funny, I had friends that were in the dramatic writing department, and I was like, “You guys are wasting your money. You're just learning to write scripts. We learn to write the scripts and make the movies.” What I hadn't realised is it's a different skill set to hold somebody's attention across an hour-long play, or a 90-minute movie, than it is to make a movie that holds their attention for two minutes or five minutes. I found out years later when I made a feature that was like a lot of shorts patched together, and people were not… They liked it, but they didn't love it. I was like, “Well, what's going on?” And so then I learned to really love Save the Cat in particular. It completely changed me. What happened was, I got a big old slice of humble pie. I had made my second feature, and I put everything I had into it, and it had loose structural beginning, middle, end, blah, blah, blah. But I was still, “Eh, Hollywood BS. What do they know? It's all fake.” So I was very anti-Hollywood structure. Then I was like, now I've got two independent films out there, people saw them, liked them, whatever, but it wasn't getting me consistent work. It wasn't really advancing my career in the way that I wanted. And I was like, “Well, maybe there is something to the Save the Cat.” So I went to the Save the Cat workshop with Blake when he was still alive, and he was delightful, a really awesome guy. He's got this kind of cutesy style, for people that don't know. For context, Blake Snyder was a working Hollywood screenwriter, and he had this system called Save the Cat, which actually has some really interesting ideas. He's got this very light, breezy sort of style. A lot of people don't like him and some people really love him, and everything in between. But I took his weekend seminar, and it completely changed me, because at that point, like I said, I took three years to write a script. Then once he had a process and he had a way of thinking about craft that was just much more screenwriter-friendly, I was like, “Oh my God.” It was so much easier, because I was just focused on the right thing at the right time. So it just sped everything up. After that, I was banging out two to three scripts a year, and better and better quality. So for me, because I went from winging it and wrote five scripts in 13 years, and then wrote two to three scripts every year, I became a huge proponent of system and process. Then my own system really came from that, but it's modular. I have a nine-step system, but you don't necessarily have to go in that order, other than the last three steps, but I won't get into the details. Sometimes you kind of jump from two to three and then back to two and then back and forth. So I love that you get the feel for those elements, and then you just felt your way through. But writing screenplay pages doesn't make sense until you really understand concept, you get a deep sense of beginning, middle, end, character arcs, and these other threads. There are just way better tools for those jobs than screenplay format, because it's a really weird format. It's got these weird slug lines at the top that are all in caps, because a screenplay is a blueprint for somebody else to make the movie. It's not an end-user document like a novel. I don't let my clients even go to that format because it just gets them focused on the wrong things. What they really need to know is, what is your perspective about this theme? What happened in your life that you're fascinated with, that you'd even want to write about this? And tell me what your real life lessons are. So we go into… again, I go back to relationship. What's your relationship to the universe? And what's your relationship to your best friends, or where you got your heart broken, or whatever you want to write about. And then we get that clarity, and then I show you how to express it in terms of developing a screenplay. It's really long-form storytelling, and then the structure just makes it build on itself. But with the structure, because you're talking about so much money and people involved to make it, at least traditionally, what ended up happening was narrative structure that was not so much rigid. Because here's the thing, you can look at 50, 100 years of European cinema and you can look at Hollywood cinema, and Hollywood laps them. When I taught at UCLA Extension, I had lots of foreign students. Let's say there'd be two or three students… if there were 12 people in the class, two or three people would be from America, and everybody else would be from other countries. I would go around, I'd be like, “What movies and TV shows have you been watching?” Almost in every single country, they watch half from their own country, half from Hollywood. So Hollywood storytelling works, that's just the data, and they're dominant. The reason it works is what Aristotle was saying thousands of years ago.. There's a way of thinking about beginning, middle, end that just deeply speaks to the psyche, and you can ignore it if you want. I think Godard said, “You need beginning, middle, and end, but not necessarily in that order,” right? Which is great. Just the way we experience life, there's a beginning, a middle, an end to this podcast interview. There's a beginning, middle, end to the day, a beginning, middle, end to me eating lunch. So if you don't lean into the beginning, middle, end psychological aspect of your story, you're going to bore your reader. But to your point, you don't necessarily have to sort that out in the beginning. It's more efficient probably if you do, but you don't have to. Go into it wherever the muse tells you to go, and then at some point, like you do, then you go, “Okay, now I go back and I edit.” If you're saying there's another level, you have another gear in you, then yes, I'd be curious to slowly go through how you're making those decisions. Because what's happening probably is there are ways you're holding back a little bit. There's maybe something you're afraid of being vulnerable about. That's usually where me or other writers are holding themselves back, and we can take a look at that. There are different ways I show writers to do it. Then you can go, “Oh, I was doing it here, and now I can do it there.” And it could be with process, or just a certain creative choice. With story, it's clear and compelling. Those are the simple things. So, is this clear enough? Is it compelling enough? And there are almost always ways to up-level on any facet, whether it's one sentence, or a sentence that describes the whole concept of the book, or a chapter. Each one of those can be looked at with that lens and we can just say, “Hey, this is 70%, 80%,” whatever, and then we say, “Well, how do we get a little bit more?” And then when you do that enough, it piles up. Then especially if you bring in an audience and people are flipping out for your work, they'll tell you. Jo: Yes, I love a challenge, so thank you for everything you've shared today. So where can people find you and everything you do online? Brooks: Well, one way you can find me—if anything I said seemed helpful for you, if you have questions about Hollywood or you have a screenplay in your heart—you can just email me, brooks@brookselms.com. You could look me up on LinkedIn. I'm at Brooks Elms. I also have a Skool community called Screenwriter Marketing, but it's really for any sort of storyteller, and it talks about my favourite way to engage an audience and get through it. So anybody can jump into that if you like my vibe. If you really think anything I've said, or the way I said it, seems like it could be helpful for you, just reach out. Let me know what you're up to, and maybe there's a way I can help you. Jo: Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for your time, Brooks. That was great. Brooks: You're welcome. It was a total pleasure. It was lots of fun, and I really appreciate you.The post How To Prove The Demand For Your Stories And Get The Attention Of Hollywood With Brooks Elms first appeared on The Creative Penn.

After a recent episode on packing, Jen and Pete spend this week mulling over the idea of its opposite: unpacking. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What are some tactics we might use to make it easier to manage change? How might we assess what everyone on our team needs before making a plan? What surprises might we find when we take a different path than planned? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

Bestselling and award-winning writers Seth Godin (The Practice), Amie McNee (We Need Your Art), Mason Currey (Daily Rituals) and Bec Evans & Chris Smith (Written) on choosing yourself before anyone else does, protecting the hour you actually have, and why the writing rules you were handed were the rules that worked for someone else.   You'll learn Why "grow a thicker skin" is the wrong advice for a writer facing rejection. What shifts when you notice the harshest rejection you face each day is your own. The case for lowering your standards if your ambitions are big. How an hour that doesn't look like writing can still be an hour of writing. What the word discipline shares with the word disciple, and why it changes how a project turns out. A quiet argument for half an hour a day over the perfect routine you can't sustain. Three questions worth asking at the end of every writing session. Why the writing rule that failed you was probably never yours to begin with. When a good outcome hides a bad decision, and what that means for your practice. The difference between talent and skill, and why only one of them applies to writing. Episode Links #150: Seth Godin — Obscurity Is the Enemy, Here's How to Stop Seeking Validation, Find Your Audience and Build a Creative Practice #158: Amie McNee — Creating Without Permission, Overcoming Self-Doubt, Facing Rejection, Building a Life on Your Own Terms, Embracing Social Media as an Artform #177: Mason Currey — Daily Routines and How Artists Work, Focus Time and Protecting Your Best Hours #046: Bec Evans & Chris Smith — Overcome Creative Blocks, Get It Written About the Guests Seth Godin is the author of twenty-plus international bestsellers that have changed the way people think about work and have been translated into 39 languages – among them Unleashing the Ideavirus, Permission Marketing, Purple Cow, Tribes, The Dip, Linchpin, Poke the Box, and All Marketers Are Liars. He writes the most popular marketing blog in the world and speaks to audiences worldwide. He is the founder of the altMBA, the founder and former CEO of Squidoo.com, the former VP of Direct Marketing at Yahoo!, and the founder of the pioneering online startup Yoyodyne. Amie McNee is a trained historian turned creativity coach, writer, and speaker best known for her popular Instagram account, @InspiredtoWrite, and The Unpublished Podcast. She's self-published two historical fiction novels: The Rules Upheld by No One and Regrettably, I Am About to Cause Trouble. Her book We Need Your Art: Stop F*cking Around and Make Something is a manifesto on the vital, human importance of creating. Her most recent novel, To Kill a Queen, a queer historical mystery set in Elizabethan London, was published in 2025. Mason Currey is a writer and editor living in Los Angeles and the author of the Daily Rituals books. In addition to compiling the Daily Rituals books, Currey was a design-magazine editor for ten years, working as the managing editor of Metropolis, the executive editor of Print, a senior editor at Core77, and the programming chair for the 2015 Core77 Conference. His freelance writing has appeared in the New Yorker, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Atlantic, and Slate, and he has delivered talks on the creative process to high school and college students, writers' groups, and the partners of the design consultancy IDEO. He sends out a fortnightly newsletter on routines, rituals, and wriggling through a creative life. His latest book, Making Art and Making a Living: Adventures in Funding a Creative Life, was published by Celadon Books in 2026. Bec Evans and Chris Smith are the co-founders of Prolifiko, a coaching business that helps people build productive writing habits. They met while working together in a bookshop more than 20 years ago and have spent a lifetime writing and working with other writers. Prior to Prolifiko, Bec worked in publishing, led teams of writers and managed a writing centre for Arvon. She's also the award-winning author of How to Have a Happy Hustle. Chris has a background as a ghostwriter and content consultant to global business brands, charities and the public sector. He worked as an agency director before setting up his own communications consultancy and has written for national newspapers and magazines. He is also an award-winning comedy scriptwriter. The authors live in Yorkshire with their dog, Peggy. Their book Written: How to Keep Writing and Build a Habit That Lasts was published by Icon Books. For show notes, transcripts and to attend our live podcasts visit: podcast.londonwriterssalon.com.For free writing sessions, join free Writers' Hours: writershour.com.*FOLLOW LONDON WRITERS' SALONTwitter: twitter.com/​​WritersSalonInstagram: instagram.com/londonwriterssalonFacebook: facebook.com/LondonWritersSalonIf you're enjoying this show, please rate and review this show!

After thinking over and over about the concept of strategy, Pete turns to Jen to help him unravel what strategy actually is and how it can be best utilized by individuals and companies. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What even is strategy? How might we move from our goals to a clear strategy? What are some tactics to stay focused on the things we actually have control over? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

Ian sits down with Asher Bykov, Head of Growth at USVC, AngelList's newly launched publicly accessible venture fund, to talk about how they took USVC from a hundred and fifty investors to tens of millions of impressions on launch day. Asher shares why the biggest marketing lever wasn't a campaign but years of owned audience-building through Naval Ravikant's podcast and Ankur Nagpal's Silly Money newsletter, how a great offer beats great copywriting every time, and why he thinks about brand as a promise you keep rather than a logo you design. Key Takeaways: A great offer beats great marketing. Asher ranks the sequence as offer, then copywriting, then design, then media buying - no amount of clever positioning saves a weak offer. Owned audiences compound for years before they pay off. Naval's podcast, Ankur's Silly Money newsletter, and AngelList's own network turned USVC's launch into demand capture rather than demand generation. Brand is a promise, not a logo. Borrowing from Seth Godin, Asher argues that consistently delivering on what you tell your audience matters more than any campaign, rebrand, or design choice. Sponsor:  Pipeline Visionaries is brought to you by Qualified.com. Qualified helps you turn your website into a pipeline generation machine with PipelineAI. Engage and convert your most valuable website visitors with live chat, chatbots, meeting scheduling, intent data, and Piper, your AI SDR. Visit Qualified.com to learn more. Links: Connect with Ian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianfaison/ Connect with Asher on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/asherbykov/ Learn more about USVC: https://usvc.com/ Learn more about Caspian Studios: https://www.linkedin.com/company/caspian-studios/about/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Seth Godin said "choose your customers, choose your future" and he couldn't be more right! Today I talk about the massive importance of indeed choosing who you want to serve and how affects the success of your business. READ MORE HERE

Most change efforts don't fail because of bad strategy. They fail because the people leading them are asking the wrong question.Seth Godin has written 21 bestselling books. He's built movements, challenged industries, and spent decades studying why some ideas spread and others die quietly in conference rooms.In this conversation, Seth cuts straight to what most change leaders get wrong — and what to do instead.You'll walk away with:A clearer way to think about strategy that actually holds up under pressureWhy chasing ROI may be the thing killing your credibility — and what to say insteadHow storytelling works (and what has to happen after you tell it)What it really takes to lead change when you don't have the authority to force itThis one stayed with me long after we recorded it. I think it'll do the same for you.

Marketing strategy, brand distinctiveness, and the courage to stop blending in: Louis Grenier shares fresh research on why 80% of B2B companies come across as invisible or generic. Digital beige is everywhere, and it's costing brands the very thing they're trying to build, memory.Louis audited 100 B2B tech companies against eight recognised brand asset types, colour, logo, visual device, typography, taglines, human identity, product UI, and sound, and found that only one made it to iconic. He breaks down what's overused (colour and logo), what's sitting completely untouched (sound and human identity, despite being scientifically proven to trigger stronger memory recall), and exactly what to do about it.Louis is a positioning and go to market expert for B2B and founder of STFO. He was previously the host of Everyone Hates Marketers, where he interviewed some of the biggest names in the industry, including a famous conversation with Seth Godin.And if you haven't met Louis before, expect a bit of swearing and some very honest answers!

As Jen prepares for her summer travel, she and Pete noodle on the activity of packing, and the sometimes difficult decisions of what to bring and what to leave behind. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: Why is making decisions so hard? How might the usage of constraints and rules be beneficial when making choices? What are some tactics to deliberately carry less around with us? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

Today on Getting Unstuck Hi, I'm Jeff Ikler, host of the Cultivating Curiosity podcast. This summer, I'm periodically releasing mini-episodes of "Cultivating Curiosity." In about 10 minutes, I'll dive deeper into a key point from a previously broadcast evergreen episode. The content in these mini-episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. At some point during the summer of 2019, I was walking in our nearby forest preserve, listening to a podcast with Tim Ferriss in conversation with Seth Godin. Tim Ferriss always asks his guests during the wrap-up what they're reading that they find fascinating—books that have truly impacted them. Without hesitation, Seth Godin replied, The Art of Possibility. I thought, if Seth Godin found the book worthwhile, I had to look into it. The authors of the book are Benjamin Zander, who at the time was the Conductor of the Boston Philharmonic and served on the Faculty of the New England Conservatory in Boston. That's an important distinction, as you will hear. And Rosamund Stone Zander was a family therapist and a landscape painter. Sadly, Roz died in September 2023 in a tragic accident. The idea The book's central premise is that life is a story and we are its author. Many of the circumstances that block us from leading a deeply satisfying life are assumptions and interpretations of our own making. We can, therefore, write better ones. Supporting that idea are 12 practices, which, if followed, promise to transform our thinking and the way we walk through life. The book, then, and this is important, is not a self-improvement book that results in merely tweaking our undesirable habits or making only incremental changes. The 12 practices are powerfully disruptive. Not surprisingly, because Roz was a psychotherapist, the practices call for a completely different way of looking at the world and our behavior. I purchased the audio version of the book because the authors narrated it and Ben infused it with rich musical examples. If I had been asked to write a back cover blurb, I might have offered something very erudite like, "I was blown away by it." It sits on my bookshelf with only a few other titles that I can grab in case of disaster. At the time, I thought I had little hope of securing Ben and Roz as guests on our fledgling show, but they could not have been more gracious in their response and participation. Episode 100, which I'll link in the show notes, has become one of my top 5 downloaded episodes out of more than 400, and for good reason. I'm going to feature two of the practices in this mini-episode: One is "It's all invented," which is really the capstone practice, and Two, Giving an A. In both cases, the authors will explain the practice in an excerpt from the original interview, followed by my brief commentary. It's all invented. Here is Roz touching on "It's all invented." Everything we do or say is really embedded in an interpretation, and we don't notice that, and when slide back and forth between the interpretation and what we say is real, and most of the time we are saying that what we, how we are interpreting things is reality, and that's how you get Republicans, Democrats, and all sorts of people in conflict because they don't make that distinction, so we are saying everything that you do and talk about, aside from something that everybody agrees is just happened or is true, is a story, and if you, if everything is a story, you can retell the story, and it'll make a different life for you. Enormous power of realizing that, and then saying, "Okay, let me just take the same circumstances I've just dealt with and make up a new story about it that helps, that is enlivening to me and enlivening to you and enlivening to everybody else. This practice has always taught me that I have the power to reframe and interpret what I've seen or heard about something, whether it's external or internal to me, so that whatever it is becomes more meaningful. I don't see this as putting a glossy coat of paint on something. It's challenging me to look at an aspect of life for what can be gleaned from it. This practice definitely calls for me to pause, step back, and refrain from immediate judgment. And that's not always easy because it runs counter to how our brains seek immediate clarity. As an exercise, take a situation and see if you can look at it differently so that it is, as Roz suggests, more enlivening. Sometimes you might have to do this through gritted teeth, but remember, you are the author of the story. Give yourself an "A." OK, here is the second practice: Giving an A. We'll hear from both Ben and Roz in this excerpt. The giving of the, which was Ross's idea, came out of my class, and the reason is that the students were living under such fear of competition and failure, and so I, we came up with this idea, Ross came up with the idea, and I practiced it, which is giving the A the beginning of the year before they've done anything. This is right in the very first class, they get the grade. The condition is there to write a letter at the beginning of the year describing who they will have become by the end of the year, and that to justify this thing, and so they're describing themselves at their very best at being successful and effective and wonderful musicians and people, and that's the person I teach when I go into the class, so that there became a way of approaching all teaching or conducting, I walk into an orchestra and give everybody an a instantaneously before we've begun, and the orchestra players feel that sense of confidence, of trust, of joy, of shared love of the music, and it creates an atmosphere. Oh, and then very important, if they make a mistake, we go, how fascinating. That has to be seen. How fascinating. I encourage people to go out and try that on the golf course, because what we do is we live under such fear of failure that we become very cautious and anxious, fearful, and looking all the time to see if other people are making the mistakes, and so it's not an atmosphere of risk taking and joy, and if you create an atmosphere of risk taking and joy, then, and everybody who makes a mistake gets to say, "How fascinating, then you've got a chance to people to learn more effectively, giving something here about transformation, because if we don't give an A and hope they'll live up to it, right, you see them as an A, and that means that I, or Ben, as the teacher or therapist, or whoever's given the giving the A has to do the work themselves, that becomes the relationship of an A. It isn't just the student that we hope to help along, because they feel loved and everything, and now they, they're not afraid. It is the relationship that changes, and that is the transformation. So, teachers transformed, students transform in the process, and transformation means that you're living in a different world, you're living in a world that doesn't operate by the same physics as the world we live in. It's very hard for people to get that the A is not a judgment Giving an A is my favorite of the twelve practices because, as Roz pointed out, it carries responsibility for both the giver and the receiver. We can give anyone an A, and that calls for us to see and treat them differently because our intent is that the A becomes, to quote from the book, "a possibility for the receiver to live into." I saw immediate application in my lifelong vocation of education. The key, as the authors point out in the book, is for the receiver to "place themselves in the future, looking back, and to report on all the insights they acquired and milestones they attained during the year as if those accomplishments were already in the past. Everything must be written in the past tense. Phrases such as I hope or I intend or I will must not appear." As an exercise, give a server in a restaurant an A the minute you sit down. How might doing so impact your behavior toward them? The key point here is that you're not trying to get the server to live up to a standard you've set, but to have them look more carefully at their own behavior and how they want to conduct themselves. Connect / Referenced Book: The Art of Possibility Benjamin Zander Center Video: Ben's TED Talk Video: Ben on "Giving an A" Rosamund Stone Zander Book: Pathways to Possibility Original episode: Creating a Life of Possibility: "How Fascinating!"

Two simple questions can change the way you make decisions, spend your time, and build your future.  In today's episode, Mel sits down with Seth Godin, one of the most influential thinkers of our time and one of Mel's most trusted mentors.  Seth has written more than 20 bestselling books, taught millions of people how to think differently, and shaped the way Mel thinks about success, confidence, purpose, business, and making an impact.  Today, Seth is sharing the advice Mel wishes everyone could hear, particularly when it comes to business and success.  His wisdom will make you rethink how you spend your time, what you say yes to, what you keep avoiding, what you need to quit, and what kind of future you are building.  You can use this advice for anything:  Your goals. Your career. Your business. Your creative ideas. Your next decision. The thing you keep talking yourself out of. The life you say you want, but have not started building yet. Seth will show you how to stop chasing the wrong things, stop measuring the wrong things, and stop trying to be everything to everyone. In this episode, you'll learn: -The 2 questions that will help you make better decisions immediately -How to know what is worth your time and what is not (this works for everything!) -Why trying to please everyone keeps you stuck -How to stop hiding behind being busy, perfecting the plan, or waiting to feel ready -Why the right decision and the right outcome are not the same thing -How you know when to quit and when to keep going -Why criticism from the wrong people can pull you off track -Why doing work you're proud of changes the way you feel about your life -How to build a future that feels more honest, meaningful, and aligned This is not just advice about business or career. It is a masterclass in how to think. By the end, you'll know what habits to cut out, what to start doing, and where to focus your energy so you can build a better future. For more resources related to today's episode, click here for the podcast episode page.   If you liked the episode, you'll love Seth Godin's first appearance on The Mel Robbins Podcast: How to Build a Life That Matters & Get What You Want Starting Today Connect with Mel:     Order Mel's product, Pure Genius Protein Get Mel's newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration. Get Mel's #1 bestselling book, The Let Them Theory Watch the episodes on YouTube Follow Mel on Instagram  The Mel Robbins Podcast Instagram Mel's TikTok  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-free Disclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Seth Godin takes us into how he thinks about storytelling and the intersection of strategy and story, and then we hear him dissect one of his go-to stories. Plus, Seth and I trade stories in the back half of the episode—business storytelling nerdery on full display.Seth is a world-renowned author, speaker, and thought leader who has written more than 20 bestsellers, including Purple Cow, The Practice, and This Is Marketing. At the time of this recording, Seth was focused on promoting This is Strategy.Together, Seth and I discuss his delightful story about recumbent bikes. This "super-story" has found its way into Seth's work repeatedly for over a decade. We discuss ‌the evolution of this story, how he conceptualizes status and affiliation, and why focusing on pedagogy as a storyteller is essential. Also in the episode: why the idea of your "posture" matters for storytellers, the role of the storyteller in the world today, and why smaller stories often have a bigger impact.Learn more about Seth's work and subscribe to his daily blog at seths.blogEPISODE CREDITS:Written and produced by me, Jay Acunzo. For more, subscribe to my newsletter→Production support for the original edit by Ilana Nevins.Music for Why They Resonate is by Embleton (Instagram - Facebook).***ABOUT ME, JAY ACUNZOI'm a public speaking and storytelling advisor trusted by bestselling authors, TED speakers, seven-figure coaches, and brands like Mailchimp, Wistia, and Salesforce. Before starting my advisory firm (where I work 1:1 with clients and run group programs), I was a digital media strategist at Google and head of content for 3 organizations, including HubSpot.I've given keynotes across the US and several other countries to marketers and managers, designers and dentists, leaders and landscapers, and my journey as a speaker has been featured in 3 different books.Today, I teach business leaders how to communicate with greater clarity, influence, and resonance.Learn more about my advisory work at jayacunzo.comBook me to speak at jayacunzo.com/keynotesWatch video versions of some episodes, plus get regular insights into stronger public speaking and growing a speaking business, at youtube.com/jayacunzo***IF YOU ENJOY THE SHOW:Leave a review on Apple Podcasts Leave a rating on Spotify Thanks for your support! Keep making what matters.

This week, Pete shares with Jen a perfectionism trap within an AI model, and together they noodle on how to get their work unstuck and shipped. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What tools might we use to gauge when our work is good enough? What are the signs and symptoms of looking for perfection? How might we use AI to ship our work more frequently? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

Our book of the month is "This is Strategy" by Seth Godin. When this book was published, I knew I wanted to read it. I've been following Seth for years. Rather than presenting strategy as an academic discipline or a collection of management frameworks, he describes it as a way of thinking about systems, incentives, and long-term change. The result is a book that is less about business tactics and more about understanding how meaningful change actually occurs.His assertion is that what is taught in school consists of questions where the answer is known. If the teacher doesn't know the answer, they can't write a test to give you a mark. As a result, schools don't teach you how to answer questions where the answer is not known. In fact, part of the job will be to define the question. The true underpinnings of strategy come from asking these types of questions. ------------**Real Estate Espresso Podcast:** Spotify: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/show/3GvtwRmTq4r3es8cbw8jW0?si=c75ea506a6694ef1)   iTunes: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-real-estate-espresso-podcast/id1340482613)   Website: [www.victorjm.com](http://www.victorjm.com)   LinkedIn: [Victor Menasce](http://www.linkedin.com/in/vmenasce)   YouTube: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](http://www.youtube.com/@victorjmenasce6734)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/realestateespresso](http://www.facebook.com/realestateespresso)   Email: [podcast@victorjm.com](mailto:podcast@victorjm.com)  **Y Street Capital:** Website: [www.ystreetcapital.com](http://www.ystreetcapital.com)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital](https://www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital)   Instagram: [@ystreetcapital](http://www.instagram.com/ystreetcapital)  

This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the creative process, and how we might build and iterate on our ideas. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: How does Jen think about the creative process? And Pete?  What is the Ship of Theseus? What are some tactics and questions we can use to build and expand on existing ideas and frameworks?   More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

show notes

This week, Pete revisits what it's like to be a student, and he and Jen noodle on the mental frameworks this inspires in them. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is it like to be new in a learning environment? How might we learn from our peers, and their questions and learnings? How might we more often put ourselves into communities that are growth minded?   More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

Marketing visionary Seth Godin explains how the Internet got hijacked by an attention-stealing spam economy that keeps us in an endless loop of badly targeted marketing. Godin's anti-spam playbook: demand companies earn your attention with awesomeness, and break the digital slop loop that broke the Internet. Make yourself harder to find, harder to hit: https://joindeleteme.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another life-focused edition of Beats, Vines & Life. Today, MJ Towler sits down with renowned entrepreneur, teacher, and bestselling author Seth Godin. Known for his game-changing books like Purple Cow, Tribes, and This Is Marketing, Seth Godin has shaped the thinking of marketers, creators, and leaders around the world. In this episode, the conversation explores the intersection of marketing, storytelling, connection, and lifestyle—diving deep into why stories matter in the world of wine, how meaning and community elevate experiences, and the real power behind the premium price tag on that special bottle. From wine glasses and chocolate bars to placebos and permission-based marketing, get ready for practical wisdom and insight on building trust, finding your tribe, and living a life—and creating products—that truly matter. Pour a glass, settle in, and enjoy a conversation about creativity, generosity, and the courage to ship your best work.Subscribe to Seth's Blog!Follow Seth on IG!____________________________________________________________Until next time, cheers to the mavericks, philosophers, deep thinkers, and wine drinkers! Grenache Fest is BACK!!! Grenache Fest is coming to Waitsburg, Washington, bringing with it a focused, celebratory spotlight on one of the world's most important and expressive grapes. This year, we will start with a blind tasting seminar hosted by MJ Towler, Chauncey Arkfeld, and Michael Alberty, followed by smaller breakout sessions across town.Subscribe and give Beats Vines and Life a five-star review on whichever platform you listen to.For insider info from MJ and exclusive content from the show, sign up at blackwineguy.comFollow MJ @blackwineguyFollow Beats Vines and Life @beatsvinesandlifeFollow Totally Biased Wine Reviews on IGSign up for Totally Biased Wine Reviews Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In a hyper competitive market, you need to differentiate in any way that you can.Visibility and ultimately 'authority' are a proven way to drive B2B sales – and justify more premium pricing.The goal is to get out of what Seth Godin refers to as ‘sort by price'.  That happens when every product looks the same, so buyers simply choose the cheapest one.Good marketing is the way to avoid that trap. It is the time tested, proven route out of that sales dead zone.In this episode we discuss  4 key ways to create brand differentiation and establish authority.   This how to rise about the market noise and start closing more B2B sales.Visit A Seat at The Table's website at https://seat.fm

Energized from her coaching retreat, Jen shares with Pete five learnings from the three-day discourse between herself, the coaches, and their clients. Specifically, in this episode, the learnings that Jen and Pete talk about are: Know what hat you, as the coach, are wearing. Know what hat they, as the client, are wearing. Say less. Sort your thoughts into objective and subjective, before you say them out loud. Doing is much more powerful than talking about doing. More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

This Week In Startups is made possible by:Plaud https://Plaud.ai/twistPilot https://pilot.com/twistAgree https://agree.comIM8 Health https://IM8health.com/twistAfter watching Elon build out his rocket (and AI) company over the past 20 years, Jason celebrates the SpaceX IPO on a new TWiST. He explains why some investments are evaluated based on earnings and current numbers, while other stocks are bets on expensive visions for the future, and why SpaceX why likely pay off across multiple time horizons.PLUS Polsia solo founder Ben Cera is back with guidance for founders on creating a “Purple Cow”: a unique experience that makes their brand memorable.Guest:Ben Cera on X: https://x.com/BenceraPolsia: https://polsia.com/Polsia on X: https://x.com/polsiaBen on TWiST E2256 (Feb 2026): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCce8e02IswRelevant Links:SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/SPCX on Yahoo Finance: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPCX/Starlink: https://www.starlink.com/Planet Labs: https://www.planet.com/Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/Valor Equity Partners: https://www.valorep.com/Seth Godin's “Purple Cow” on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Purple-Cow-New-Transform-Remarkable/dp/1591843170Uber Ice Cream stunt article: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ubers-brilliant-marketing-stunt-hail-195946535.htmlHillsborough Flintstones House article: https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/The-Flintstone-House-is-now-for-rent-on-Airbnb-10420107.php“19 Hours Inside the Airbnb X-Mansion” article: https://www.theringer.com/2024/05/29/pop-culture/x-mansion-airbnb-x-men-icons-experienceWas The Pepsi Challenge based on LIES? https://www.historyoasis.com/post/the-pepsi-challengeCloudKitchens: https://cloudkitchens.com/Cluely: https://cluely.com/Timestamps:0:00 SpaceX IPO details2:12 Plaud: If your work depends on conversations — interviews, meetings, calls — you need a Plaud NotePin. You can check it out at https://Plaud.ai/twist and use code TWIST for 10% off!7:21 The voting vs. weighing investment framework9:41 Pilot: Focus on your product, let Pilot handle your bookkeeping. Pilot provides the most reliable accounting, CFO, and tax services for startups and small businesses. Head to https://pilot.com/twist and get $1,200 off your first year.19:53 Agree - Stop chasing invoices at https://agree.com and tell them Jason sent you to get 50% off for life!22:25 The media's SpaceX criticisms and "hot takes"23:54 Ben Cera of Polsia is back26:53 Why Jason says no to a free tier29:10 IM8 Health: Start feeling like your best self every day. Go to https://IM8health.com/twist and use the code TWiST to get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order.34:27 The wisdom of Seth Godin's "Purple Cow"50:37 The "Pepsi Challenge" model1:05:45 Lon got a dog, Jason got routers1:10:37 The YouTuber to movie theater pipeline1:15:20 Jason's new favorite travel bagSubscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.comCheck out the TWIST500: https://www.twist500.comSubscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcpFollow Lon:X: https://x.com/lonsFollow Alex:X: https://x.com/alexLinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelmFollow Jason:X: https://twitter.com/JasonLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanisCheck out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, Eoghan McCabe, Steve Huffman, Brian Chesky, Bob Moesta, Aaron Levie, Sophia Amoruso, Reid Hoffman, Frank Slootman, Billy McFarlandCheck out Jason's suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanisFollow TWiST:Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartupsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekinInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartupsTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartupsSubstack: https://twistartups.substack.com

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Check out the full episode: https://greatness.lnk.to/1027DM Seth Godin highlights the significant difference between talent and skill. He explores how talent, an innate ability, differs from skill, which is developed through practice and effort. Godin discusses the implications of understanding this distinction, emphasizing the role of deliberate practice and continuous learning in honing skills. The episode offers insights into how individuals can cultivate and refine their skills, transcending the limitations of raw talent to achieve meaningful success. Sign up for the Greatness newsletter! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the idea that sometimes the simplest answer might really be the answer. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is Occam's Razor? How might we simplify our problem solving? What tactics can we utilize when we are stuck on something?   More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

AI filmmaker and 14-time author Jason Moore joins me to unpack how artificial intelligence has reshaped the way he tells stories — without stripping out the creativity behind them. We get into a real client project that only became possible because of AI, his three guiding principles for using it well, and how he handles the inevitable wave of online critics. If you're curious (or a little nervous) about where AI fits into your video business, this conversation's for you. Key Takeaways AI works best as a collaborator, not a vending machine — the more of yourself you bring to it, the better the output. Some projects only exist because AI makes them affordable. In those cases, nobody actually loses a job that was never in the budget to begin with. Every big tech shift — Photoshop, CGI in Jurassic Park, even self-checkout — displaced some work while creating new opportunities for the people who adapted. Jason's "soul test": if you don't bring your own creativity and judgment, you get soulless results. The human stays in the driver's seat. About Jason Moore Jason is the author of 14 books on topics ranging from creativity and design to artificial intelligence. His most recent release, AI and the Church: A Clear Guide for the Curious and Courageous, is an Amazon bestseller that has sparked more than 150 national training engagements. In film and television, Jason has collaborated with Hollywood producers and created book trailers for New York Times bestselling authors including Arianna Huffington, Seth Godin, Robert Greene, Ryan Holiday, and Marc Ecko. A graduate of The Modern College of Design, Jason now returns to his alma mater as an adjunct instructor, alongside his work as a sought-after keynote speaker and trainer whose career bridges the worlds of creative production, ministry, and emerging technology. In This Episode [00:00] Welcome to the show! [05:58] Meet Jason Moore [12:06] AI Video Content [16:22] AI Video Package [27:47] Using AI Morally [38:23] Example Projects [48:35] Outro  Quotes "AI should be a 'do it with you' tool, not a 'do it for you' tool." — Jason Moore "You have a soul and AI doesn't. If you don't bring enough of your soul to your interaction with AI, you get really soulless outputs." — Jason Moore "I'm a human first, business owner second." — Ryan Koral "When the option exists, we're going to help more people tell stories in more compelling ways than we could in the past." — Jason Moore Guest Links Follow Jason Moore on Instagram | Facebook | X Links Find out more about the Studio Sherpas Mastermind Join the Grow Your Video Business Facebook Group  Follow Ryan Koral on Instagram Follow Grow Your Video Business on Instagram Get your Early Bird tickets for the Onward Summit Join the Studio Sherpas newsletter

Transformation is hard. To be successful, it has to be human. That's what Julie Anixter and Dan Hill mean by Business Change that Works from the Inside Out. The guests they bring forward have one thing in common - a level of mastery and a passion for making a difference. As cohosts of this new program, Julie and Dan bring a wealth of experience and credentials. Julie comes from a lineage of Chicago entrepreneurs and has built her career at the intersection of strategy, design, and enterprise change. Through work for and collaborations with individuals (Tom Peters, Seth Godin, Scottie Pippen) and organizations (The US Military, P&G, Chanel, Morgans Hotels, AIGA), among others, she has been on the front lines of innovation and co-creation. That's her calling card. As in Dan's case, her blue-chip clients span multiple sectors. Dan's signature mark has been following Daniel Goleman's lead in applying emotional intelligence (EQ) to business issues, using Dr. Paul Ekman's facial coding research tool to capture and quantify emotional responses, radically transforming market research. He's considered a pioneer in emotional branding. He's also applied his craft in pro sports and current events, and served as a commentator on national TV, exploring how U.S. presidential candidates communicate and connect. Dan has authored 10 books, notably Emotionomics, a top ten selection by Advertising Age. This episode introduces Dan and Julie for who they are…first and foremost as individuals devoted to making the business world both more humane and productive - the foundation for a culture that can sustain a real transformation. Listen to this episode, and you'll learn about their guiding principles and how they see this podcast and their other current initiatives as the capstones to their respective careers.  Real Transformations: Business Change That Works from the Inside Out is co-hosted by Julie Anixter and Dan Hill, PhD, entrepreneurs with deep experience as corporate change agents, devoted to helping companies make continuous change work for everyone through clarity and connection. To learn about their keynote talks, workshops and labs, check out Real-Transformation.com.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

This week, Pete and Jen noodle on the activity of a subtraction audit...one more thing to add to their plate, that will hopefully free up more space. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is a subtraction audit? How might we help ourselves filter the things we say yes to? What are some tactics protect the free time in our calendar?   More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 2071: Seth Godin challenges the broken state of customer service by arguing that companies are trapped between customers demanding instant perfection and businesses cutting costs wherever possible. He proposes a smarter, asynchronous approach where issues are handled thoroughly over time instead of rushed through frustrating real-time interactions, creating a system that rewards accountability and genuinely delights customers. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://seths.blog/2007/02/starting_over_w/ Quotes to ponder: “The internet has taught us to demand everything immediately (and perfect).” “The rapid proliferation of choice has taught us to demand that everything should be cheap.” “Make it really clear to the caller that there is a problem, that the caller deserves great service and that things will be dealt with.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever caught yourself thinking, “If I could just figure out the perfect niche, everything in my business would finally click?” In this episode of Doing Business Like a Woman, I'm sharing my own niche journey after 20 years in business, from saying yes to every client and opportunity, to discovering the deeper purpose behind my work and building a business centered around helping women entrepreneurs grow. And honestly? The biggest lesson I've learned is this: your niche is not something you force. It's something that evolves over time. I'm talking about: — The mistake women entrepreneurs make trying to “pick the perfect niche”— Why your niche should be built around your strengths, desires, experience, and purpose— What it really means to shift into purpose in your business If you've been stuck in niche perfectionism or questioning whether you're “doing it right,” this episode is for you. Because it's not the perfect niche that creates success. It's knowing who you are, how you want to serve, and the change you want to help create in the world. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Doing Business Like a Woman01:00 – What “niche drama” really looks like02:30 – Defining what a niche actually is03:15 – Why your niche is an evolving process04:15 – Melissa's first business and serving “everybody”05:30 – The benefits of casting a wide net early in business06:30 – From content creator to mortgage and real estate marketing07:30 – Feeling disconnected from purpose in business08:15 – The moment that changed everything09:30 – Realizing the desire to help women entrepreneurs10:30 – Shifting into purpose and meaning in work11:15 – Gradually transitioning into a new niche12:15 – Discovering the types of clients she serves best13:00 – Trust driven service businesses and relationship based marketing13:45 – Why women get stuck trying to find the “perfect niche”14:30 – Why perfectionism keeps entrepreneurs stuck15:00 – Letting your niche reveal itself organically16:00 – The question from Seth Godin that changed Melissa's thinking16:45 – Building a niche around your strengths and desires17:30 – Why it's not the “perfect niche” creating results18:15 – Discovering the through line in your business journey19:00 – Invitation to work together and create clarity20:00 – Final encouragement and closing thoughts Stay Connected:

'Today is day one of whatever streak you choose to commit to.' Something a little bit different this week, as I celebrate an unusual milestone: eight years of running every single day. But this isn't really about running, it's about streaking (no, not that kind of streaking, do grow up) and why committing to one tiny daily action can be such a powerful way of moving yourself towards the person you want to be. Don't just take my word for it: writing productivity expert Bec Evans and daily blogger Seth Godin also share their thoughts on why consistency matters more than brilliance, why the practice matters more than the output, and why this might be exactly what you need to get your book written. One day every streak will end, and that's a tough thought to comptemplate. But today? Today, you get to choose.

Seth told me, "It doesn't matter how fast you're going if you're headed in the wrong direction." He's right. Here's my attempt to create a hierarchy for this idea:1. Strategy = This is your approach, given all the factors, systems, games, players, and environments. It's about who, how, and why.2. Objectives = To-do items or steps on the path to help you achieve the goal. It's about how you're going to get there.3. Tactics = The actions or individual steps for accomplishing the objectives. It's about what you're going to do.“A goal might be part of strategy, but strategy is not a goal,” Seth explains. “Strategy is a goal along with a sketch that becomes a plan.” Unlike a rigid plan, the strategy must allow for flexibility. It should act more like a compass than a fixed map, providing a directionally correct route to success rather than insisting on a singular path. Support the show

This week, Pete and Jen are celebrating four hundred weeks of podcasting (with no breaks!). To honor the occasion, they answer questions that were sent in by you, the listeners. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: How have Pete and Jen sustained their momentum of recording, over four hundred episodes? What episodes are in The Long and The Short Of It's cutting room floor? What episode might Pete and Jen want to revisit, with new information or context? What three leaders from their industry might Pete and Jen want to invite for dinner? Should we spend less time training leaders, so there is more time to train followers? What is a favorite lesson or transformation that Pete and Jen have had, over these years of podcasting? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

This week on Conflict Managed we welcome Laura Kriska. Together we explore: Seeing and breaking down silos at work Asking: What are we actually trying to achieve together? The power of superordinate goals The four stages of trust Turning colleagues into trusted colleagues We-building instead of division Conflict Managed is available wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube @3pconflictrestoration Laura Kriska is a Harvard Business Review contributor, TEDx speaker, and the author of three books on trust, culture, and collaboration, including The Business of WE, The Accidental Office Lady, and her newest work, focused on practical trust-building in today's organizations. Her article in Harvard Business Review, published in November 2024, was recently selected for a special edition to be released in May 2026. Her career began at age 22 as the first American woman to work in Honda Motor Company's Tokyo headquarters, an experience that launched a 30+ year career helping global teams, leaders, and organizations close the “us vs. them” gaps that quietly erode performance, culture, and results. At a time when workplaces feel more divided than ever—across culture, politics, generations, functions, hybrid vs. in-office, and identity—Laura works with organizations worldwide on what actually creates change. Her approach goes beyond slogans, focusing instead on research-backed, practical actions that measurably build trust. Her work has been featured in Harvard Business Review and highlighted by platforms such as Seth Godin's ChangeThis. Laura's life's work centers on inspiring what she calls a “WE-building revolution,” moving people beyond awareness into meaningful action that narrows the gaps holding teams and communities back.    Conflict Managed is produced by Third Party Workplace Conflict Restoration Services and hosted by Merry Brown. #ConflictManagement #WorkplaceCulture #Communication #Connection #Podcast

Eric Ries: Incorruptible Eric Ries is the creator of the Lean Startup method, and the author of the New York Times bestseller The Lean Startup, The Leader's Guide, and The Startup Way. Over the last two decades, his ideas about continuous innovation, long-term thinking, governance, and market reform have reshaped company building and management practices. He is the author of Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great (Amazon, Bookshop)*. If you build a great organization, the predators will come. With the right principles in place, not only can you protect what you love, but help many people flourish because of it. In this conversation, Eric and I show you exactly where to start. Key Points Most leaders are one acquisition, one IPO, one board meeting away from seeing something they love turn into something they hate. If you build something great, they will come. The “they” are the predators who are willing to kill the golden goose. Financial gravity is the force no one controls but everyone obeys. Appreciating its realities and laws will help you build stronger. Rather than framing profit as good or bad, define profit as how you contribute to human flourishing. Harder is easier. Rather than viewing principles as a burden, the best leaders see principles as opportunities. Design the business model so the organization prospers only via mission attainment. Resources Mentioned Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great by Eric Ries (Amazon, Bookshop)* Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes Doing Better Than Zero-Sum Thinking, with Renée Mauborgne (episode 641) Crafting the Modern Business Plan, with Seth Godin (episode 704) Notice Disruption and Innovate Through It, with Steve Blank (episode 761) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by Hal Mayer, a coach and consultant who works with pastors and business leaders to help them grow healthy teams without burning out. With decades of ministry experience and a background in coaching, Hal brings actionable insights into one of the most common leadership challenges: how to move a team from passive compliance to active engagement. Are you carrying too much of the leadership load yourself? Feeling like you're the only one coming up with ideas or pushing things forward? In this conversation, Hal shares a simple but effective framework to help leaders shift from telling to asking—and unlock the potential of their teams. Why teams become disengaged. // One of the most common frustrations leaders express is that their team feels stagnant or unmotivated. Hal suggests this is often not a team problem but a leadership problem. When leaders consistently provide the answers, shut down ideas, or unintentionally reward passivity, team members learn that their input isn't needed. Over time, they stop contributing and simply comply. What appears as laziness is often the result of a system that has trained people not to engage. From answer-giver to question-asker. // Many leaders are promoted because they have strong ideas and can solve problems quickly. However, if they continue operating as the “answer person,” they eventually limit both their own capacity and the development of their team. Hal emphasizes that asking better questions is the key to unlocking engagement. Questions reveal what team members understand, help them think critically, and shift ownership of solutions back to them. When people help create the solution, their investment in execution increases dramatically. The Smart Ask framework. // Hal introduces a practical coaching framework called Smart Ask, designed to guide conversations that lead to action. The process begins broadly by asking, “What issues are you facing?” This allows team members to surface their own challenges and become more self-aware. From there, the leader helps narrow the focus by identifying one clear goal for the conversation—something the person can act on immediately. Next comes a pivotal question: “If you could try anything, what would you do?” This opens up creativity and removes internal barriers that might limit thinking. From there, the conversation moves toward selecting one idea, identifying potential roadblocks, and outlining specific next steps. By the end, the team member leaves with a clear, self-generated action plan. Why buy-in matters more than the idea. // Even a great idea will underperform if the person responsible for executing it isn't fully invested. Conversely, a slightly weaker idea can produce better results if the team member has full ownership and enthusiasm. Engagement drives execution. When leaders consistently choose their own ideas over their team's, they unintentionally lower buy-in and limit results. Coaching toward self-leadership. // Over time, consistently using questions develops leaders who can think and solve problems independently. Hal describes the ultimate goal as “self-coaching” where team members begin asking themselves the same questions and generating solutions without needing constant input. This not only reduces the leader's workload but also builds a stronger, more capable team. Balancing development and delegation. // Hal cautions that delegation is not the first step. Rather, it's the result of development. Leaders must invest time in coaching and guiding their team before handing off responsibility. Skipping this process leads to frustration and failure. However, when leaders take the time to develop people through intentional questions and feedback, they create a foundation for effective delegation and long-term growth. Recognizing true engagement. // Leaders can spot engagement by watching for energy, initiative, and ownership. Engaged team members proactively solve problems, follow through on ideas, and bring solutions rather than just concerns. In contrast, disengagement shows up as slow execution, repeated questions, or a lack of enthusiasm. These are signals that more coaching, and better questions, are needed. Leading with humility and transparency. // For leaders who recognize they've been over-directing, Hal encourages a simple starting point: acknowledge it. Telling your team, “I've been giving too many answers, and I want to change that,” creates trust and opens the door for a new dynamic. This kind of vulnerability invites feedback and helps reset expectations for how the team will function moving forward. To learn more about Hal Mayer and his resources—including Smart Ask and The Coaching Playbook—visit halmayer.com or find his books on Amazon. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: TouchPoint As your church reaches more people, one of the biggest challenges is making sure no one slips through the cracks along the way.TouchPoint Church Management Software is an all-in-one ecosystem built for churches that want to elevate discipleship by providing clear data, strong engagement tools, and dependable workflows that scale as you grow. TouchPoint is trusted by some of the fastest-growing and largest churches in the country because it helps teams stay aligned, understand who they're reaching, and make confident ministry decisions week after week. If you've been wondering whether your current system can carry your next season of growth, it may be time to explore what TouchPoint can do for you. You can evaluate TouchPoint during a free, no-pressure one-hour demo at TouchPointSoftware.com/demo. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. So glad that you are tuned in to today’s episode. Man, we’ve got something super helpful for us. It’s one of these areas that many of us spend lots of time doing, but we maybe haven’t taken a step back and think thought about what do we do in coaching relationships? We all are involved in coaching staff and people on our teams. And today we want to help you with some practical steps to make that even better. Rich Birch — Excited to have Hal Mayer with us. He’s a coach and consultant for both businesses and business leaders and pastors who want to grow but don’t want to burn out. He’s authored a few books, including “Smart Ask”, “The Coaching Playbook”, and excited to have Hal on the episode today. Welcome. So glad you’re here.Hal Mayer — It’s good to be here, Rich. I’ve been a fan on the sidelines for years, and unSeminary was so good because I did the seminary thing, and I did all the stuff, and you’re right. There’s so many things we didn’t talk about there that you help us prepare for, so thank you for what you’re doing.Rich Birch — Oh, that’s super exciting. That’s kind of you to say, but I'm I’m really looking forward to today’s conversation. It’s been a while coming and so excited. We bumped into each other at the Exponential conference this year.Hal Mayer — Yeah.Rich Birch — Shout out to Exponential. I was like, we got to get you on. So excited that you’re here today. Well, why don’t we kind of start. Give us kind of the Hal background. Tell us for folks that don’t know, you know, you give us the kind of the 90 second, this is who Hal is conversation.Hal Mayer — Yeah, I, ah goodness, was born up north, came to faith in Georgia in high school. We moved down there, played basketball in college, and then coached for about five years. Married Sandy, moved off to seminary, finished that up, and I’ve been in Florida since ’84, serving in churches from the size of 200 to 12,000. Rich Birch — Love it. Hal Mayer — So all over the yard, and also do some business coaching in the middle of that.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. Yeah. And I’m, I really, that’s really what I want to tap in today. You spend your days coaching both pastors and businesses leaders, like we talked about that. Rich Birch — When, when someone first sits down with you, I want to kind of use the fact that you have a lot of these conversations today to help our listeners kind of take advantage of you. When someone first sits down with you, what’s like a common version of stuck that you hear, whether it’s a pastor or maybe a business leader, like do you hear common themes with folks.Hal Mayer — Yeah, you know, probably the most common thing I hear is our team’s stuck, our team’s stagnant. And I’ll say, what do you mean by that? And they’ll often say something that relates to this of, I have to come up with all the ideas. It seems like I’m the only one pushing the team to get going. I’m the only one with the ideas. They just seem often lazy, or they’re not doing it. What do I do to engage them?Rich Birch — Right. Love that. Well, man, I wish I hadn’t thought that. I haven’t thought that as a leader over the years. What what, so then take us the next step from there. What what, as you’re kind of coaching someone, I’m assuming as a leader, you know, I, or one of my convictions is our teams are a by-product of our leadership… Hal Mayer — Yeah. Rich Birch — …and we’re leading in a way that’s leading them to act that way. So what what leads our people to be like that?Hal Mayer — Yeah, I think it’s the leader. And that’s the fun thing to do. As a parent, I loved watching my kids do something that was dumb, but they repeated it, and it’s because it was rewarded.Hal Mayer — So I watch team members disengage because they come up with an idea and it gets shot down. Or they ask everybody in the room the idea and it’s only the leader’s idea they go with. And when that happens, they they kind of go, well, I guess we’re just here to hear his ideas. And they start pulling back and not engaging and just being compliant.Rich Birch — Interesting. I remember years ago we had a coach in who said who said to us, this is when I was on the senior leadership team of a fairly large church, fast growing. We were like four or 5,000 people at the time. And he spent a bunch of time with our ah you know with our team, with us.Rich Birch — And ah he looked at us and he said, listen, you guys answer way too many questions. You need to be asking more questions than answering questions.Rich Birch — And that was a pivotal you know changing moment for me as a leader. I was like, oh, Oh my word, that is so true. Talk us through that dynamic of, you know, asking the right questions versus always being the answer man or the answer person.Hal Mayer — You know, we usually get promoted because we did the job well or we have the answers. If we continue in that framework, one day we will run out of the answers, but let’s say we’re in that framework. I’m not developing anybody if it’s only my ideas we’re using. And if we’re only using my ideas, they’ve got ideas, but they’re dying. So what I encourage and push guys to do is exactly what you said, ask questions. Hal Mayer — I mean, questions will do a couple things. One, it will tell me what they understand. I mean, do they really understand the problem? I say, tell me what’s going on. Okay. What do you see here? And all that. It tells me, do they understand the problem? And I may have to probe some more, but I want them solving things that I find out about later. And to do that, I’ve got to lead different. Hal Mayer — For me, we were in a fast growing church in South Florida. And I was the answer man. And what I realized was I’m working harder and harder and I’m not developing people. So I started stepping back and then learning this principle and started asking questions, looking for their engagement. Here’s what I found. When they had the answer or they got to do what they wanted to do, their engagement went way up.Hal Mayer — So for me, not only did it go up, they began to develop. And I’ve had somebody say, well, I don’t have time to develop people. He said, in fact, if I develop them, they’ll just leave me. I say, yeah, yeah you know, it’s worse is if you don’t develop them, they stay, right? Right.Rich Birch — Right. Exactly.Hal Mayer — So I found this to be a tool for development: asking questions.Rich Birch — Okay, that’s cool. I, like talk to me more about engagement. What would be some telltale signs for you of like someone who’s really engaged, fully engaged versus, you know, when your team isn’t as engaged? Because maybe we’re having a hard time even discerning what that looks like.Hal Mayer — Yeah, I I mean, if they’re slow walking the solve that we came up with, if there’s no passion around it, if there’s no energy going in it, and I find myself even answering the same question over and over, I’m realizing more and more, I don’t have engagement. I’ve got compliance. And I really want them engaged and dialing in to what we’re doing. And to get that, I’m going to have to get them on the same page.Rich Birch — Well, and then obviously questions are at at a core of this. And a part of what I love about your resource, “The Smart Ask” or just “Smart Ask” is this framework, it’s it’s, you know, it’s simple… Hal Mayer — Yes. Rich Birch — …but powerful. So why don’t you kind of talk us through the Smart Ask framework? What’s kind of the basic arc that you try to walk someone through?Hal Mayer — Very good.Rich Birch — Coach us through that. Talk us through what that looks like.Hal Mayer — I start very broad and I’ll say, and by the way, I take notes, but at the end I give them the notes and I’ll explain that in a minute. Rich Birch — Okay.Hal Mayer — So I'll I’ll ask permission, can I take some notes? And they’ll say, sure. And I say, I’m going to give them to you. But our first question is, what are the issues you’re facing right now? And let them just elevate them out. Let them say everything they want to say, every problem they’ve got.Hal Mayer — And then I’d say looking at these problems, is what’s one goal that we could have for our time today? Now, what that does is it focuses it on a goal and what they’re going to do, not on me. It can’t be, how could you find me 10 more leaders? That’s not something we can do in that meeting.Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — So I want a goal from them, something they can do when they leave the meeting. And so they say, you know what? I want to face this volunteer engagement. In fact, I use the illustration from the book about a preschool lady who said, I need 30 more volunteers to serve in preschool. And I said, well, I can’t get that for you now. So her goal was come up with an idea that I could engage 30 more people. And then I’d go with this.Hal Mayer — Okay. If you could do anything, what would you try? Yeah. And of course, the first, she says, anything? She said, yeah. She said, I’ll pay them $1,000 a piece. I said, okay.Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — And I just write it down to go ahead and get that out and get them moving on to the next thing. Rich Birch — Right. Hal Mayer — And they run through things. And I listen, I’ve got to be careful not to go, oh, that’s a really good one. But let them talk about it. And as they get through, if I’ve got something at the end, I mean, as they’re going, I’ll go, anything else you could try? Anything else you could try? And you feel like you’re asking that too much, but what you’re doing is just unpacking all of it. If I’ve got an idea, I can add that in, but I don’t give any passion to it because I don’t want to control.Hal Mayer — Then I’ll say, now look at these. Which one of these ideas would you like to explore further? And they’ll look, and this lady said, I want to explore the one about a lemonade stand in the lobby, which I thought was a dumb idea. I didn’t tell her that, but I thought, aaaah.Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — So then I said, okay, what potential roadblocks? Well, I’ve got to talk to leadership. Okay, what else? And they talk about that. And any detours?Hal Mayer — Well, if this happens, we’re walking through solving the problem before it approaches, right? And then the last thing I said, okay, if you’re going to do this, what will it look like? And we list out six or eight things. And I say, okay, let me know like it goes. And hand her the paper. In this case, I said, hey, listen, let me know on Instagram how it went. Rich Birch — Oh, nice.Hal Mayer — So the next week she picked up 40 new workers. And this was a very large church. Rich Birch — Wow.Hal Mayer — She picked up 40 workers with this idea, because it was hers. And to me, it was crazy. It worked. Hal Mayer — But so the the framework is you’re starting broad and you’re narrowing down. And I’m actually getting a set of to-dos and objectives. One, two, three, four, five. Then I hand them that. They’ve got their plan. All going to do is execute it. And they develop it when I’m asking them questions. Rich Birch — Yeah, I love that. Hal Mayer — Now, let me tell one of the advantages of that too.Rich Birch — Yeah.Hal Mayer — If I use that enough with them, there’s going to be a time when they come to me and say, and want to talk to me and I’m not available. They’ll say, well all he was going to do is ask questions. Rich Birch — Right.Hal Mayer — And they start going through the questions and they start self-coaching is what they do. And that’s the end game. That’s what I want. And by the way, when I use questions with people, I explain to them what I just did. So they can then take it and use it somewhere else.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. I’d love to start right back at the beginning. Hal Mayer — Sure.Rich Birch — I love this idea of really starting at a wide open. Hey, what challenges are you facing today? I think too often if we’re, I’m thinking in kind of the one-on-one situation, maybe I’m an executive pastor at a church of 1,500. One of my people comes to me and I go to that conversation, and I’ve got five things I want to talk to them about. Hal Mayer — Right. Rich Birch — But I love, you know, starting with what challenges are you facing? What happens if we skip that with people? If we if we don’t start there, I’m sure we get, you know, we end up in all kinds of bad places. Talk us through why you encourage people to start with that question.Hal Mayer — Especially early on when you’re coaching folks, because as they go later, they’ll kind of work through that, no, that’s the framework I’m going to work with. And they’ll come up with their biggest issue. But the reason I do that, I want to show this value to everything they’re facing. And I want them to elevate it, not me tell them what they’re doing, so they become more self-aware.Hal Mayer — Now, if they don’t list one of the things I see as an issue, I may say, and what about this? Is this an issue for you? Oh, yeah, that too. I just don’t want to put a lot of passion on it because then they’ll do what I want. And I want them to do something they’re passionate about because the framework just means I’m going to get more from it.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. That that’s a key lesson. I think particularly for first-time managers or people who haven’t managed a lot of people before, we don’t realize the weight of our voice, right? Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — If we, you know, even by saying like, oh yeah, you’re right. That’s a good idea. Then all of a sudden they’re running with that idea just because you indicated it. That’s an interesting thing. That’s interesting. Rich Birch — Now one of the, I mean, you kind of pulled it apart, but I would love to double click on it there. To me, as I go through your framework, I can imagine, that, hey, “what if you could try anything” is a is a pivotal moment, is kind of a turning point, it is an important question. Why is that and so important? Maybe give us another example. I love the idea when you talked through with the lemonade stand, but talk us through why that’s so important and what does that unlock as we’re interacting with our teams and people?Hal Mayer — That’s a great question because what will happen there is if we don’t ask that question, ah it’s “what if you could try anything”, they may be in the back of their mind have something they go I can’t try that. So they keep trying to think somewhere else. Just get it out on paper.Hal Mayer — It’s like when I feel stressed or something, I just list everything that I’m dealing with and then I can focus on one thing.Hal Mayer — But I allow them to get it all out at that point of trying this and trying that. And usually what will happen is they’ll come up with six or seven ideas. And I say, “and what else” a lot? And it seems like I’m saying a lot, but is when they’re in the zone, they’re answering, well, could try this. Well, could try that. I could try this. And then I find which one they have the most energy around because that’s what they want to do.Rich Birch — Yeah. And obviously you would, you observe that, that energy and you’re like, Hey, it seems like this one, tell me more about that.Hal Mayer — No, no I don’t I don’t do that.Rich Birch — Oh okay. Okay. Talk to me about that.Hal Mayer — What I do is I say, okay, which one of these seven things would you like to try?Rich Birch — Okay.Hal Mayer — Once they identify it, then I say, okay, tell me more about that. What would that look… Why do you want to try? And and then we dive into that.Rich Birch — Okay. One of the things that this strikes me, and this, when I read, again, friends, you should pick up a copy of of this book and there’s a playbook as well I want to talk about. But but I think this could be ah a huge gift for…Just this week, two days ago, I was talking to somebody who, they asked me, they said, hey, what should I be doing in my one-on-ones? I’ve got these staff, what should I be doing with them? And I thought of this framework. Rich Birch — So I think the part of what I love that you’re driving towards is is buy-in. At least my, my my impression as an outsider looking in is that this would really increase the buy-in of my staff. Talk me through, you know, the connection there between buy-in and moving the organization forward and that sort of thing. What, how does that help us think through those issues? Hal Mayer — Yeah. I’m going to bring up the equation I use in the book, the buy-in equation, or the engagement question, whatever that is. I was a math teacher in a former life. So PBI, possible value of an idea, times BI, the buy-in, equals their ROI.Hal Mayer — Now, let’s say, you know, we’ve we’re we’ve got, you’re my boss and I’m doing student ministry and you have an idea because you did student ministry and all that. Your idea out of one 10, it’s going to at least be a nine. I mean, you’re Rich Birch. I mean, you have all the answers.Hal Mayer — Now me doing it, I don’t get any input on it. So I will comply. I will do it, but my buy-in is probably going to be about a three. I’ll do what you ask, but there’s not going be a passion with it. So 3 times your 9 idea is a 27. Hal Mayer — However, let’s say I come up with an idea and it’s not going as good as yours. In fact, it’s a only two thirds as good as yours. It’s a 6, but what’s my buying going to be if it’s my idea? It’s a 10.Rich Birch — A lot higher. Yeah.Hal Mayer — That’s a 60. So there’s a 60 ROI to my buy-in because of my buy-in as opposed to a 27. Now you had the better idea, but buy-in is what gets it done. We’ve seen that over and over again. When people are bought in on something, they often they’ll make a bad idea work. We’ve seen that.Hal Mayer — So for me, that’s what I want. I want full engagement. And when they know that they get to do their ideas, people are much more engaged than they’re running around doing mine. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so true. As a coach, somebody who obviously I coach people full time now and and that is you’ve you’ve named something there that I think is critically important and that oftentimes like I can’t coach people who don’t want to be coached.Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — Right? Like if they’re not bought in, if they don’t think this will help. And, you know, I’ve said in other contexts, I’ve been like, man, the the leaders who who apply the frameworks we’re talking about are seeing great results. And those that are applying, the majority of them are seeing, but a lot of it is just their own buy-in on these issues. Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — There might be a leader that’s listening in today that’s like, okay, this all sounds good, but like, what if my people just have bad ideas? Like, and if, if it’s going to push us in the wrong direction, like it’s one thing to be like, tell me seven ideas. All seven of those are crappy and they’re going to, we’re going to end up somewhere where I don’t want us to end up as it. How do I steer somebody back towards better direction?Hal Mayer — Yeah. One the things before I give people full leash or full run on something is I want to check out their readiness for it. For example, if I want to do brain surgery, I may be excited. I may have done AI search on it and Claude said, do it this way and all that. But I’m not ready for that. It wouldn’t take but a second to find that out. I found that out in high school. I went, so I worked at a gas station where they actually worked on cars too. And I saw a guy fixing the valve. So I went home and took my 1960s Comet and tightened the valves down and ended up having to get a valve job. Hal Mayer — I was excited. I was passionate, but I wasn’t ready. So if you don’t have people who are ready, you cannot hand it off to them. They must be developed some. They’ve got to have some experience. To hire somebody in fresh who’s never done it before and start leading with questions is like leading me with questions in how to operate. I wouldn’t have a clue. I’d be most excited about cutting. No, stop.Hal Mayer — However, questions also help draw focus. And sometimes the reason they don’t have ideas, is we haven’t focused them.Hal Mayer — I learned this with a physical metaphor. Somebody told me it would work. My son, pretty good basketball player. I had him out driveway. I said, son, see how many shots you can make out of 10? And so what that basically did was put a little pressure on, right? And he’s a good, so he shot four out of 10 from the three point line.Hal Mayer — I said, okay, let’s forget about how many you’re making and just shoot and answer my questions. I said, okay, what do you notice? All right, what do you notice about the ball? What do you notice about the ball? He hit 10 in a row. And what I discovered was, you know, you college athletes who will shoot seven out of 10 in a game, but in practice hit 20 in a row. It’s the fog of war or whatever.Hal Mayer — And so with employees, sometimes we haven’t asked enough questions. to get through that. However, we could also have some people who aren’t ready to lead. It’s not fair to expect them to come up with good ideas. They haven’t done anything. So both edges on that. Hal Mayer — And at the end of the day, all of the employees I have are my fault. And if I haven’t developed them, that’s on me, right?Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, that’s good. Talk to me about, so I feel like there are, lead there’s leaders on our teams or there’s people that are listening in today that think they’ve got buy-in, but they really actually don’t. They think their teams are really with them, but they don’t. How, what advice could you give us to try to spot the difference around buy-in that’s not actually there? Like I keep kind of bumping into this wall. How can, how can we spot that?Hal Mayer — You know I look for people who are solving problems. Are they solving them and telling me about it later? Are they coming to me with every problem? Because that means I’m still solving. Buy-in has to do with the passion and the ability to finish something. It doesn’t mean you work until 9 o’clock every night, but it does mean you manage to get the ball across the line.Hal Mayer — So when I watch a lack of energy around an idea or somebody slow walking it. Or maybe somebody asking questions that really aren’t, that are just curmudgeon questions. They’re asking questions just to find every hole that’s wrong. I mean, everything that you can find, well, suppose that doesn’t work. Suppose… That’s not buy-in because for me, my challenge is always, don’t tell me what won’t work or tell me what’s not working. Give me an idea of what we might try. At least then we’re thinking in solutions and not just problems.Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s really good. So a big part of scaling any organization, a growing church, a growing business is delegation, is leaders figuring out how to give away things they’re doing. I’ve said this in so many contexts, you know, roll this clock forward. The majority of what you’re doing, we need to figure out how to give to someone else… Hal Mayer — Right. Rich Birch — …how to empower a volunteer or another staff member to pick that up. How does asking better questions change the way we hand off responsibility to other people? How how does it help in that transaction?Hal Mayer — You know, I'm a big fan of Ken Blanchard and the book “Situational Leadership”.Hal Mayer — And I used to train that with a corporation. And one of the things I watch is people like to start people and like to delegate. But when they leave off the coaching in between, it’s not delegation, it’s abdication. And people fail. Hal Mayer — I go, what’s wrong? They said they understood. Well, you stay engaged. I mean, you give them a task. You stay engaged. You’re asking questions. Soon, you’re no longer asking questions to to help them figure out what to do. You’re just asking questions to draw focus. And then you know they’re ready. You can hand it off to them. Hal Mayer — But you’re right. If we’re not finding a way to delegate, but delegation is not the first step nor the second. It’s more like the fourth, right? You watch me. We do it together. I watch you. You’re doing it. However you want to call that. But it takes more engagement. Hal Mayer — People say, well I don’t have time for that. Well, here’s the deal. You can pay me now or you’ll pay me later. But you’re going to pay me. If you’re if you’re not developing people, you’re going to run into a system where you’ve got a bunch of people who don’t know how to think and do. And that’s on you.Rich Birch — True. Yeah, that’s so true. And if we don’t start that process, hey, you watch me, we do together. And if we don’t start that process today, we’ll never get there. And so it takes time. But we’ve got to, you know, that’s, that’s what it we just constantly have to repeat that over and over and over in our areas. I love that. So let’s talk more specifically about the books specifically. So it’s “Smart Ask: Questions that lead your team to win.” Where can we pick up copies of this? If people are looking, because I think this is not a huge book. It’s, you know, if you’re watching on video, it’s just a little thin one, but it’s got, it’s one of these ones. It’s a quick read. You could literally give it to a team member and say, hey, let’s read through this. And then we’re going to talk about it next week. I’d love to get your thoughts on it. But talk to us kind of, when why did you put this together in a book form?Hal Mayer — Well, I was training it and people kept asking me questions. And the only reason I write books is to stop answering all the questions I get asked, right? Is to put it out there. I mean, Seth Godin’s idea of a long tail, right? I want it to last when when I put a book out there.Hal Mayer — So “Smart Ask” is on Amazon, but it was created for the purpose to to help people, after I’ve used it in coaching, to be able to take it then and train their teams. Because it dives in also to the why it works and and such as that. But you’re right, intentionally a short book because I like short books and there you go.Rich Birch — Well, and we all, you know, I can say this as an author, that we’re tempted when we write to be like, well, I’m just going to stuff a bunch of other stuff in there.Rich Birch — But this is, it’s to the point, it’s it’s focused, it’s a great training material, I think, like you say, for you know for our entire team.Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — But then you also put together a playbook. Talk us through how this is different than just the standard book.Hal Mayer — Well, my daughter-in-law, Chrissy, Chrissy Mayer, married to my son. She’s a pastor over to church in Tampa, Grace Family Church. And she said, why don’t you create a handbook for it? And you know what I said? Why don’t you do that?Rich Birch — That sounds like a great idea for you.Hal Mayer — So I said, that sounds like great idea. Once you create the framework, I’ll get it published on. So she did the work and we got together and we put it there. And the reason for it is you can take your coaching conversation, it has all the questions in it. It’s got lines you can write answers. And it gives you a chance to keep up. And I would probably take a picture and send the person they’re the the answers they gave to the questions or whatever like that. It just helps you stay on track. So you’ve got all the questions right there.Rich Birch — And yeah, talk us through the the handing off of the notes back to someone. I think that’s a great move. Hal Mayer — Yeah.Rich Birch — Talk us through why that’s important. Why is that such a critical piece of the puzzle?Hal Mayer — Well people are so used to us building files on them. And you’re going to put that in my file to show that I didn’t know what to do? And so I asked for permission on the front end to take notes. Now, if I’m the boss, I’ll do take notes if I want to. But I I won’t and I won’t if they say no, though. So I’m I’m really giving it to them. And I tell them, I’m going to give you these at the end because I don’t want them taking notes. I want them talking. I want their full engagement with me. And you can’t get that while they’re writing.Rich Birch — That’s good.Hal Mayer — So I said, you just pay attention to me. I’ll take the notes and I’ll give you them at the end. Then you hand them at the end and they’ve got their execution plan.Hal Mayer — So my meeting with them, usually it’s a 30-minute meeting and land with an execution plan that gets handed to them and they go back and do the work. So it pulls them into full engagement. They’re not getting distracted by trying to write down everything or slow play that way. So I’m taking notes again, putting value to them. Hal Mayer — When when they’re the hero, right, and I’m the guide, what I’m doing is is setting them up. And when you take notes on somebody, that means something to them. Rich Birch — Right, right. Hal Mayer — So that’s where I am. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. Now, what about, so one of the tensions I have found in my one-on-ones is wanna make sure that I’m doing all the other stuff: caring for them, you know releasing, you know I guess, finding barriers that that I can pull apart for them and say like, hey, here’s some stuff. Yeah, I’m gonna take some to…Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — And I’ve said to my team in the past, hey, I’m hoping that you don’t walk away from this with a bunch of to-dos. That’s not the the goal of today. I want to help you. And I know you got a lot going on. I don’t want to just dump on you today. And so how do you avoid that in this framework that we don’t end up with? Okay. Every time they meet with Hal, now I’ve just ended up with a plan that I just, gosh, I just gave myself more work to do. How do you, how do you, do you understand that tension?Hal Mayer — Yeah, I don’t do this every meeting with them.Rich Birch — Okay.Hal Mayer —  The meetings on there. And I, you know, I’ll check in. How are you doing? One the things I i really want to pay attention to is the emotional, soul, health of the individual.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Hal Mayer — Because we’ve got people facing burnout today. So I’ll ask them, you know, tell me on a scale of one to 10, what are you feeling? You feel like you want a 1 being I want to go home and go to bed, a 10 being let’s charge hell with water pistols. Right, that gives me a framework. The number doesn’t really matter. I just compare it each time to see if they’re tanking.Hal Mayer — The second thing I’ll ask for is give me a win in your private life, in your home.Rich Birch — That’s good.Hal Mayer — Give me a win in your ah ah ministry side because I want to get them on the positive run. And then I’ll say, anything you need from me. And this may be 15-minute meeting. But what it is is I’m checking in on them. If I have something I need them to do, sure, I can tell them. But I’m checking in on them, and ah that gives them value, right?Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, that’s really good. That’s good. I love there’s, friends, as you’re listening and you can tell Hal’s done this a few times. And so, you know, it’s been such a great conversation for you. So if if I’m a church leader listening in today and I feel like, man, I’m doing way too much telling and not enough asking, where would I, and and maybe even my team has told me this.Hal Mayer — Yeah.Rich Birch — Where do I start? How do I start to shift that dynamic with my people? Because because you you you kind of set this up at the beginning of like the teams that are passively disengaged, they’re just waiting for for you to give the list of, okay, go do these 12 things and then come back. How do I shift that dynamic? Where do I start? If i if my analysis is, I think that I’ve actually done that to my team, ah where would we start?Hal Mayer — If I’m convinced of that, I start at this place and I’ve done this before. Guys, you know what? I’ve been running our meetings and coming up with the answers and that’s not fair. So what I want to do is pull back more and get your engagement. So I’m going to be asking questions. I need your engagement in this meeting and your ideas coming. And in fact, if you see me over talking, catch me one-on-one afterwards and give me some feedback because I’m open up the feedback loop then, right?Hal Mayer — But I will do some self-disclosure and just own it because here’s what I do know. If you don’t own it, they won’t recognize the difference later. For example, if I tell somebody, you know what, I’m going to work on asking more questions. Six months they go, wow, you’re asking more questions. If I don’t tell them, they’ll never at they’ll never notice. Sometimes you have to highlight it. Hey, I’m going to stop being the guy trying to be the smartest man in the room, and I’m going to do this.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah.Hal Mayer — People get, vulnerability from a leader is a great thing, right? Own their stuff, but come up with some resources ah to help them, so so you’re asking more questions.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. I like that. I like i think that’s a keen insight, that not just like shifting the behavior, but actually pointing to it like, hey, as a person, I’m changing. And the implicit, the great kind of ninja move you’re doing there is like, and therefore I need you to change because, you know, what?Hal Mayer — Right. Right.Rich Birch — I’m changing because I don’t think this is working. Implicit in that is I don’t think our relationship is structured correctly and we need to figure out a different way to do that. You don’t even need to necessarily say that. But but flagging that, hey, I need to change my approach, I think is a really smart move for sure. That’s you know that’s fantastic. Rich Birch — Well, as we’re coming down to land today’s episode, any kind of final words around this idea of asking, leading with questions rather than being the answer person all the time?Hal Mayer — Yeah, this model doesn’t mean you don’t ask offer suggestions. This model doesn’t mean you couldn’t collaborate to build it. It just means you can’t be the person always having the answer.Hal Mayer — And it’s engaging other people. And the thing you will find for me that I have found, when I truly am asking them for their ideas and we execute on their ideas, they’ll come back later and say, you know, I thought that was one of those conferences you went to that said ask questions.Hal Mayer — But you actually did execute on what we talked about. Then they’re more engaged because everybody wants has ideas and wants to be heard and wants to be a part. I think people are motivated. They’re just not motivated when we take over a meeting and and run everything, right? There’s an intrinsic motivation. There’s there’s something they want to do. They’re in ministry, not because they’re just wanting to plow through. They want to see a difference. Well, they’re in the business cycle.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, that’s very true. And I think that’s a good reminder for us. I think sometimes we can get caught in the weeds of running Church World and we forget that like all these people have chosen to be here. They could be doing something else. Hal Mayer — Right.Rich Birch — And how do we bring the best out of them? And how do we, you’ve encouraged me to thinking about long term the long-term win, that really engagement, even if we have to walk through a couple of things that maybe are not the best, because… But if I can get engagement up with my team, man, that’s way better place than like, sure, we have the, it’s the, you know, it’s that perfect plan that’s poorly executed. We want to avoid that, you know, even an imperfect plan. But if it’s got tons of engagement behind it, man, there’s some gold there that we need to think more clearly about. That’s good. Love it. Hal Mayer — Yep.Rich Birch — Well, I want to send people to Amazon to pick up both of these. I think it’d be great. I really do think this could be the kind of book you could build a staff training around it, friends, really easily. You’ve got 15 staff. You could buy 15 copies of this and say, hey, you’re going to read this. And then we’re going to come to our you know team meeting in two months or whatever in a month. And we’re going to work through how do we ask better questions in our our training. That’s how it sticks out to me. Anywhere else we want to send people online to connect with you or to pick up copies of the book?Hal Mayer — You can catch my web website at halmayer.com. They can email me at hal@halmayer.com or I’m on the socials just as Hal Mayer. I, my son is Hal Mayer also, but I beat him to all of them. So I’m Hal Mayer on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn. It’s just /halmayer. So I win there.Rich Birch — Nice. Really appreciate you, Hal. You’re a good friend of leaders and I appreciate you being on today. Thanks for being here.Hal Mayer — Thanks, man. It’s been an honor.

In this solo episode of Referrals Done Right, Scott tackles one of the hardest but most important questions people face in business and life. How do you know when it is time to pivot? While persistence and discipline are often praised as the keys to success, Scott explains that there is a major difference between pushing through a meaningful challenge and staying trapped in something that no longer aligns with who you are becoming. Drawing inspiration from Seth Godin's concept of “The Dip,” he explores the tension between resilience and the wisdom required to recognize when a path has become a dead endThroughout the episode, Scott breaks down three major signs that it may be time to make a change. From internal misalignment and changing industries to fear disguised as loyalty or discipline, he challenges listeners to honestly evaluate whether they are still growing or simply holding on because change feels uncomfortable. This episode is a thoughtful and powerful reminder that some of the greatest growth in life comes not from avoiding uncertainty, but from having the courage to step into it intentionally.You Will Learn:• How to recognize the difference between a temporary “dip” and a true dead end• Why success on paper does not always equal fulfillment internally• The importance of adapting when industries and environments evolve• How fear can keep people stuck long after they know change is necessary• Why some of the best opportunities in life begin after letting go of old identities---Scott Grates' Links:Referrals Done Right - https://www.referralsdoneright.orgReferrals Done Right FB Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/296359076662332Scott Grates Website - https://www.scottgrates.comLove Living Local  - https://www.instagram.com/lovelivinglocal315Scott's FB - https://www.facebook.com/scott.grates.1Scott's - https://www.instagram.com/scottgratesTikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@scott.grates

Almost four hundred episodes later, Jen and Pete throw it back, in a way, to Episode 1, asking: How do I start? Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: Why can starting something become scary or overwhelming? What are many different tools and frameworks through which to experiment with starting? How are endings and beginnings related? More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

If you own a business (or want to soon), one of the most important things you can do is intentionally start building a brand. Today I share tips from Seth Godin's books and my 25 years experience as a business owner to help you build a brand worth talking about. READ MORE HERE

In anticipation of Episode 400 of The Long and The Short Of It, Jen and Pete are asking for questions from you, our listeners, to answer in an Ask Us Anything episode. Do you have a question that you'd like Jen and Pete to ponder, to noodle on, to think out loud about on Episode 400? Head on over to thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/400, and submit your question. To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/). More from us in your inbox. Subscribe to Box O' Goodies. A weekly email with the books, podcasts, quotes, and other noodles Jen and Pete are mulling over.Listen to all episodes and read full transcripts at thelongandtheshortpodcast.com.Reach us: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.comPete's work: humanperiscope.com · Jen's work: jenwaldman.com

When your G2 category has 97 listings and the average is 75, sounding like everyone else is a death sentence. In this episode of Content Amplified, Mike McGee, Director of Product Marketing at Vantaca, explains why he's building his PMM team to look less like a traditional org chart and more like a digital newsroom, with product marketers assigned to specific customer roles the way reporters are assigned to beats. Mike walks through the inspiration (Nilay Patel's Decoder, the Brian Chesky episode on how Airbnb blended product, PMM, and program management), the internal precedent at Vantaca (support and implementation already reorganized around customer roles instead of platform modules), and the Seth Godin "who's it for, what's it for" lens he uses to pressure-test every messaging decision. He also gets honest about when not to overhaul an org: look at what's predictable and replicable first, find the gaps, and only do a major restructure when there's no tenable way to get from where you are to where you want to go. If you're scaling a PMM team and tired of inheriting your competitors' pitfalls, this one's for you.About MikeMike McGee is the Director of Product Marketing at Vantaca, where he leads the team responsible for messaging and go-to-market in community association management software. Mike got into marketing through customer success, spending several years managing the largest customers at a property management software company and learning how to translate one-on-one relationships into one-to-many storytelling. He joined Vantaca in May of 2025 and is currently scaling the PMM team from two people to five. Mike believes in breaking the rules when the rules just inherit your competitors' pitfalls, and he comes back constantly to the question of whether the team is serving customers to the utmost of its potential.Show Notes- Connect with Mike on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikepmcgee/- Decoder with Nilay Patel (referenced episode: Brian Chesky on Airbnb's product/PMM/program management restructure)Text us what you think about this episode!

This week, Pete coaches Jen as she navigates the urgent and important curveballs and projects that have been thrown into her life recently. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is The Eisenhower Matrix? How might we prioritize the urgent and important? How might we move between periods of sprinting and periods of recovery? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

367: Activate Good - Leading with Fearlessness and Purpose (Marjorie Maas)Episode SummaryNonprofit leaders carry the weight of the next grant, the next major gift, the next board meeting - and that constant worry doesn't make the work more productive, it just makes it heavier. In Episode #367, Patton talks with Marjorie Maas, CEO of Share Good, based in Omaha, NE, about what it actually looks like to lead with fearlessness when stakes are high and resources are tight. Marjorie leads a national technology and community-building nonprofit that helps cities position generosity in one place - now active in nine markets from Charlotte to Detroit to Omaha and beyond - and she shares the mindset shifts that have shaped both her organization's growth and her own “patchwork quilt” career path. She unpacks the difference between scarcity thinking and an abundance mindset rooted in logical thinking rather than blind faith, why emerging leaders shouldn't talk themselves out of their passion, and why governance fluency is something professionals should be building early — not waiting for an executive seat to learn. Listeners will walk away with a practical framework for leading through uncertainty, language for coaching the next generation of nonprofit professionals, and a clearer sense of how to keep moving forward when fear shows up.About MarjorieMarjorie Maas is the CEO of Share Good, a national technology and community-building nonprofit that connects passion to action in hyperlocal communities by giving nonprofits a shared megaphone to tell donors and volunteers what they need. She leads the growth and expansion of Share Good's national footprint and supports the SHARE Family of community partners across the country. Before joining Share Good in December 2022, Marjorie launched and directed SHARE Omaha, building a platform that promotes more than 700 nonprofits across the Greater Omaha and Council Bluffs metro, and earlier created and implemented the corporate social responsibility strategy for Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Nebraska, redesigning their corporate giving and volunteerism programs. Her 20-plus-year career spans arts marketing, statewide grantmaking, and CSR — a winding path she calls a “patchwork quilt” and credits as the very thing that prepared her for the work she does now.ResourcesConnect with Marjorie on LinkedInLearn more about Share Good at ShareGoodUSA.org — visit the About Us page for community case studies and video testimonialsConcept referenced: Ikigai — the Japanese framework for the overlap of mission, vocation, profession, and passionBook recommendation: The Dip by Seth Godin — a quick, essential read on knowing when to push through a setback and when to walk awayAlso mentioned: Mindset by Carol Dweck (Patton's reference on growth vs. fixed mindset)Follow Your Path to Nonprofit Leadership — and please leave a review!Learn more about the leadership resources at Armstrong McGuire — ArmstrongMcGuire.com

This week, Jen and Pete noodle on the questions: Is thought leadership a teachable skill? And if so, how might we teach it? Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What is thought leadership? What attributes does a thought leader possess? How might we turn our thoughts and ideas into implementable and practical actions? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

Flower Darby shares about being a joyful online teacher on episode 620 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast. Quotes from the episode Higher education doesn’t do a great job of preparing faculty to teach, generally speaking, that’s not new, but especially online teaching. -Flower Darby If you're not a meme person, don't do that. Something that isn't authentic to your personality is not going to be effective. -Flower Darby Sometimes you don’t need all the latest bells and whistles; you don’t need the latest iPhone. We can be effective with simpler tools. -Flower Darby We can't be joyful if we're always working. -Flower Darby Resources The Joyful Online Teacher: Finding Our Fizz in Asynchronous Classes by Flower Darby Michelle Pacansky-Brock The Spark of Learning: Energizing the College Classroom with the Science of Emotion, by Sarah Rose Cavanagh Dave Ghidiu Denise Maduli-Williams TextExpander Thor: God of Thunder gets a library card A Starting Point for Seth Godin's Blog Feel Good Inc., by Gorillaz Muddiest Point Handout from Purdue Revitalizing the Muddiest Point for Formative Assessment and Student Engagement in a Large Class, by Amy Mackos, Kelly Casler, Joni Tornwall, and Tara O’Brien Poll Everywhere

This week, Jen jumps in to spring cleaning and Pete jumps in to autumn cleaning, and together they noodle on questions that might help us to question, sort, and polish the things in our lives. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: What questions might we ask ourselves, to get intentional about the systems in our lives? How might we question, sort, and polish our marketing materials? Where else in our lives might there be a need for spring (or autumn) cleaning? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

This week, Pete brings a Trojan Horse to Jen, and sneaks in ideas around leadership, empathy, curiosity, and humility along the way. Specifically, in this episode Jen and Pete talk about: How might we utilize the idea of a Trojan Horse in leadership and coaching? How might we set up our teams to feel they can fully contribute? When might we Trojan Horse something, versus being more straightforward and clear? What are some examples of where Trojan Horses show up in the corporate and theatrical realms? To hear all episodes and read full transcripts, visit The Long and The Short Of It website: https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/. You can subscribe to our Box O' Goodies here (https://thelongandtheshortpodcast.com/) and receive a weekly email full of book and podcast recommendations, quotes, videos, and other interesting things that Jen and Pete are noodling on.  To get in touch, send an email to: hello@thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. Learn more about Pete's work here (https://humanperiscope.com/) and Jen's work here (https://jenwaldman.com/).

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Check out the full episode: https://greatness.lnk.to/1027DM Seth Godin doesn't fight self-doubt. He engineers a life where it barely gets a vote. 7,500 blog posts in a row. Not because every one is great. Because Friday is Friday, and the post goes up. The decision was made once, 20 years ago. No internal meetings. No second-guessing. That's the whole system. Lewis gets honest too, admitting it was never failure or success that scared him. It was judgment. The weight of what people thought. That fear quietly ran his life for years. Two sharp minds. One clear truth: stop debating what you've already decided to do. Sign up for the Greatness newsletter: http://www.greatness.com/newsletter Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today's episode is going to change the way you think about your life.  If you keep telling yourself you want to: -go after something bigger  -start something new  -speak up  -take a chance  -or finally do the thing you know you're meant to do in life…  but you “just can't seem to find the time,” or “make it happen,” this is the conversation you need to hear right now.  Seth Godin is going to call you out in the kindest, clearest, most liberating way.  Seth is one of Mel's most beloved business mentors. He's written more than 20 bestselling books, his ideas have influenced millions of people around the world, and he's widely considered the godfather of modern marketing.  But this episode is not about marketing.  It's about the life you want to live, and why you keep putting it off with busyness, scrolling, excuses like, “I'll do it when…”  Seth is going to teach you how to stop procrastinating and start moving forward, even if you're scared, even if you're tired, even if you don't feel ready.  Once you hear what Seth says about resistance, you're going to feel a fire in your belly to make you take action.  You'll learn: -The one word that is keeping you stuck and the one word that will help you move forward -How to stop waiting for permission and pick yourself -The small, simple way to start that actually works, even when you're overwhelmed -How to stop getting trapped by fear and what other people think -How perfectionism keeps you safe, but also keeps you stuck By the end of this conversation, you're going to feel capable, and you're going to want to take action immediately.  For more resources related to today's episode, click here for the podcast episode page.   If you liked the episode, check out this one next: Reinvent Yourself: How to Let Go of Past Mistakes and Create a New Version of You Connect with Mel:     Order Mel's new product, Pure Genius Protein Get Mel's newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration. Get Mel's #1 bestselling book, The Let Them Theory Watch the episodes on YouTube Follow Mel on Instagram  The Mel Robbins Podcast Instagram Mel's TikTok  Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-free Disclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.