Podcasts about Ethisphere Institute

Curious about becoming a thought leader or author? In this episode of Count Me In, host Adam Larson chats with Ben Cena, Co-founder at High Value Author, about how to turn your expertise into a nonfiction book that actually gets noticed. Ben shares his own story—starting with hating books—and explains how he now helps professionals use books as powerful tools for building brands, attracting clients, and opening doors. You'll hear honest advice about why most books fail, what makes a book succeed, and practical steps for getting started the right way. If you've ever wondered if writing a book is right for you or how it could impact your business, this episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Ever wondered how a chemical engineering mindset can supercharge financial leadership? Join host Adam Larson as he sits down with Kingsley Afemikhe, CFO of Shield AI, for a refreshingly candid conversation about bringing engineering problem-solving to the finance table. Kingsley shares his unique journey from a family of chartered accountants in the UK to leading finance at one of the most innovative defense tech companies in the U.S. Listen in as Kingsley breaks down how first-principles thinking helps solve complex accounting and finance challenges, reveals what it's like to manage rapid growth in the high-stakes world of AI-driven national security, and offers practical tips on building strong, agile finance teams. Whether you're curious about operating at the intersection of finance, technology, and defense—or just want to hear firsthand how AI is reshaping finance—this episode is packed with insights, stories, and actionable advice. Don't miss Kingsley's take on earning your seat at the table, embedding finance across organizations, and fostering a culture of curiosity and empathy in fast-paced environments. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join host Adam Larson in this engaging of the Count Me In, as he sits down with Deirdre Ryan, the Global Finance Transformation Leader at EY, for an insightful conversation on the evolving role of CFOs in the digital age. With over 30 years of experience advising financial executives, Deirdre shares the pivotal challenges CFOs face today—balancing short-term value with long-term investment, driving innovation while mitigating risk, and building future-ready finance teams. Discover Deirdre's expert insights on aligning digital strategies with business goals, leveraging data analytics, and retaining top talent in finance. Whether you're a finance professional or simply curious about the digital transformation in financial roles, this episode offers valuable perspectives you won't want to miss. Tune in for a refreshing and knowledgeable discussion that promises to leave you thinking about the future of finance. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Get ready for an enlightening chat with Alissa Vickery, the newly appointed interim CFO and the Chief Accounting Officer, SVP Accounting and Controls at Corpay, on Count Me In! In this episode, Alissa, who's appeared with us twice before, sits down with host Adam Larson to tackle the complex world of ESG reporting challenges and operations. At Corpay, Alissa's been knee-deep in this evolving landscape, and she's here to shed light on the hurdles finance teams face in adapting to new SEC regulations. Join us as Alissa shares her firsthand experiences navigating the maze of global standards and how her company learned to prioritize and adapt. From figuring out double materiality to streamlining ESG operations with tech and third-party expertise, it's all discussed with practicality and insight. Whether you're in finance or just curious about the future of corporate sustainability, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways and a unique industry perspective. So plug in and grab your notepad—it's a conversation you won't want to miss! Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join host Adam Larson in an engaging conversation with John Hewitt, a remarkable figure in the accounting world. Despite never taking an accounting course, John has built multi-million dollar companies like Jackson Hewitt and Liberty Tax. In this episode, he shares how his father inspired his entrepreneurial journey and offers insights into franchising and self-employment. Whether you're considering entrepreneurship or curious about building a billion-dollar business, John provides valuable advice on risk-taking, differentiation, marketing, and delivering exceptional customer service. Tune in for actionable insights and inspirational stories on this episode of the Count Me In Podcast Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join Adam Larson on today's episode of Count Me In as he welcomes dynamic guest Razzak Jallow, the CFO of FloQast, who is anything but your typical CFO. Uncover how his unique path through tech and finance has shaped his perspective on finance transformation. Razzak shares insights on the evolving role of CFOs in today's tech-driven landscape and what it really means to drive a financial transformation. Discover his thoughts on the vital mix of systems, people, and culture in reshaping business processes and how crafting a future-driven vision can empower companies. If you're ready to see the exciting opportunities in finance transformation, Razzak's passionate insights will inspire you to jump in. Tune in to explore the future of finance with Razzak Jallow! Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Tune in to an enlightening chat with Alan Lazaros, CEO, Founder & Co-Host at Next Level University, on this episode of Count Me In Podcast. Join host Adam Larson as he and Alan explore the transformative power of personal responsibility in personal and business growth. Alan shares insights from his own journey, illustrating the nuances of emotional intelligence, self-belief, and the balance of fitting in versus standing out. With his captivating storytelling, including anecdotes from popular films and real-life experiences, Alan offers listeners valuable life strategies. Whether you're looking to level up in your career or personally, this conversation is packed with actionable takeaways. Perfect for those eager to reflect, take responsibility, and unlock their full potential. Don't miss out! Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join host Adam Larson for an enlightening chat with business consultant Mike Straza of Straza Consulting as they tackle the ins and outs of strengthening accounting teams amidst today's market challenges. Mike shares his secrets on balancing financial responsibilities with genuine team support, emphasizing the power of effective communication and tailored leadership. Discover how identifying each team member's unique motivations and strengths can lead to happier employees and a healthier company. Hear real-life success stories, practical tips, and down-to-earth advice on navigating the modern work environment. Whether it's about mentoring, improving workplace culture, or handling restructuring gracefully, Mike serves up wisdom with a side of humor, making this episode a must-listen for leaders and team members alike. Tune in for a casual yet impactful conversation that's packed with insights you can apply right away. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

In this episode of Count Me In, join host Adam Larson as he chats with Stacey Chazin, Founder and Principal Coach at I-Factor Leadership. Stacey, a passionate advocate for introverts in the workplace, shares eye-opening insights on why introverts excel in presenting, debunking common myths about their roles in meetings, and how the post-COVID shift is impacting them. Get practical tips from Stacey's "meeting playbook for introverts" and discover strategies to manage energy in office environments designed for extroverts. Whether you're an introvert looking to thrive or a leader aiming to understand your diverse team better, Stacey's advice on leveraging introverted strengths in leadership roles is a must-listen. Plus, hear about her online course aimed at preventing burnout and the importance of setting boundaries and communicating work style needs. Don't miss out on this enlightening conversation!Follow the below links to find important infomration about today's topic:A Conference Survival Guide for IntrovertsMeeting Playbook for Introverts: 10 Strategies to Have Your Voice Heard and Your Ideas ShineDaily Productivity Hacks for Introverts: Achieve More with Less StressThe Introvert's Edge: 10 Tips for Winning Negotiations Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join us on this exciting episode of the Count Me In Podcast, where Adam Larson sits down with Mike Dion, an expert in FP&A and automation. Mike shares his fascinating journey from finance intern to automation advocate, revealing the transformative power of streamlining processes. Get ready to learn how simple tools like Excel can save hours in your workweek, and discover actionable insights on balancing work-life with smart automation. Whether you're a finance pro or just love a good productivity hack, Mike's insights are a game-changer. Tune in for practical tips, engaging stories, and a fresh perspective on working smarter, not harder Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join us for an insightful chat with Siqi Chen, CEO of Runway and a visionary in AI and finance, on this episode of Count Me In! Host Adam Larson sits down with Siqi to explore the incredible potential of AI in streamlining our work, making complex tasks more intuitive. Discover the fascinating world of prompt engineering and how Runway, Siqi's brainchild, is redefining tools for strategic thinking.Siqi shares his unique journey from working on Mars rovers to revolutionizing financial planning. Dive into a discussion on the democratization of data, the evolution of finance from a backward-looking to a forward-thinking strategy, and the shortcomings of traditional tools like spreadsheets. This episode is full of compelling insights on making financial models accessible and integrating context seamlessly into complex projects. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join host Adam Larson as he chats with Court Watson, Partner in Deloitte Advisory's Controllership services practice. Discover the future of accounting through Court's insights on data science, generative AI, and modernizing financial practices. From tackling manual journal entry inefficiencies to exploring AI-driven dynamic account closures, this episode offers plenty of real-world takeaways. Gain practical tips on integrating innovative tech, fostering continuous learning, and upskilling for the evolving landscape. Whether you're curious about AI's potential or seeking new ways to enhance your role, this engaging conversation is packed with inspiration and actionable advice. Tune in to elevate your accounting game with invaluable insights from Court Watson. Don't miss out! We also invite you to listen and subscribe to Deloitte's Resilient Controller podcast featuring controllers and financial executives who put the attributes of authenticity, determination, trust and grit into action. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join us in an exciting conversation with Alexandre Louisy, the co-founder and CEO of Upflow, as he and host Adam Larson tackle the challenges of ensuring timely payments in the B2B world. Alexandre shares his insights on modernizing payment methods, stressing why online payments are crucial for both vendors and customers. Learn why manual invoices and checks are becoming outdated and how automation can save time and money. Alexandre's passion for integrating finance and customer experience shines through as he discusses the future of digital payments and what it means for your business. Plus, get practical advice on how finance teams can drive effective change and simplify the payment process. Don't miss this engaging and informative episode that promises to change how you think about B2B payments! Tune in now and stay ahead of the curve. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join us on the latest episode of Count Me In as Adam Larson sits down with Jeremy Earnshaw, a seasoned executive coach and mentor, to talk about the transformative power of continuous coaching and mentoring. Jeremy breaks down the misconceptions around coaching, explaining why it's not just a quick fix but a vital, ongoing journey. Listen as Jeremy shares his unique "no fault" policy and underscores the importance of having genuine, systemic changes within organizations. Discover how Jeremy's extensive experience as a CFO and his passion for coaching and mentoring have driven effective leadership and long-term organizational success. Whether you're in leadership, HR, or just curious about enhancing professional development, this is one conversation you won't want to miss. Tune in to understand why coaching can be a strategic game-changer for your career and your company. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

In this riveting episode of Count Me In, host Adam Larson sits down with Renata Serban, founder of Highly Elevated CPA and a powerhouse in the cannabis accounting industry. Renata's journey from Kazakhstan to the US, her academic pivot from chemical engineering to accounting, and her role as a strategic advisor in the cannabis sector promise to keep you hooked. Together, they chat about everything from the potential rescheduling of cannabis legislation to the vital medical benefits of cannabis, especially for cancer patients. You'll also hear about the uphill battles faced in cannabis accounting, the importance of voting for transformative change, and the historical propaganda that still colors perceptions today. Whether you're curious about the practical challenges in the weed industry or the optimistic future of cannabis reform, Renata's insights provide a compelling look into the regulatory landscape. Tune in for a candid conversation that's both enlightening and inspiring! Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join us on Count Me In for an insightful chat with Justin Smith, CFO at FinQuery! Justin tackles pay disparities that accountants face at Big Four firms and envisions a future where salaries rise to reflect their true value. He also shares how FinQuery's robust learning budget helps employees dive into AI and product development.We explore the importance of transparency, mission-led organizations, and celebrating achievements to boost morale. Justin's advice on balancing empathy with organizational goals is a must-hear for leaders navigating post-pandemic challenges. Hosted by Adam Larson, this episode is packed with valuable insights on accounting, leadership, and employee engagement. Don't miss it! Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join us on the latest episode of the Count Me In Podcast as host Adam Larson chats with Sheila Rondeau, the CEO of MOGXP and an introverted powerhouse who's mastered the art of networking and personal branding. Discover Sheila's top strategies for making networking less intimidating, including her unique plan of connecting with five quality contacts per event. She also offers invaluable tips on maintaining authenticity in personal branding, balancing social media efforts, and the crucial distinction between reputation and brand. Learn how to build genuine connections, engage thoughtfully on LinkedIn, and offer real value in your professional interactions. Whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, Sheila's insights on making networking work for you, understanding thought leadership, and respecting others' time are game-changers. Tune in and get ready to transform the way you approach networking and personal branding, one meaningful connection at a time. Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join host Adam Larson as he chats with the insightful Rachel Kourakos, transition and leadership coach at Rachel Kourakos Coaching & Consulting, about the art of human interactions and mastering self-awareness. Rachel shares impactful stories and practical tips on understanding others' needs, handling feedback constructively, and managing emotions consciously. They discuss the beauty and opportunities within change, the power of self-talk, and how to approach life's transitions with positivity. Rachel emphasizes that everyone makes choices that shape their experiences—whether we realize it or not. Tune in to learn how adopting a leadership mindset, practicing empathy, and embracing curiosity can transform both personal and professional lives. Packed with heartfelt anecdotes and engaging dialogue, this episode promises valuable takeaways for anyone looking to enhance their communication skills and emotional intelligence. Listen and get inspired to lead your life with intention and awareness!  Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Join us on the Count Me In Podcast for an enlightening conversation with Daniel Paik, CEO of Curowork, as he shares powerful insights on transforming back office roles into vital growth engines. With 20 years of experience in corporate finance and accounting, Daniel discusses how enhancing efficiency, automating processes, and completing long-pending projects can supercharge your business. You'll hear practical tips on managing unplanned tasks, avoiding the pitfalls of partial task visibility, and the importance of prioritization. Discover how renaming back offices to "value centers" can shift mindsets and drive growth. Daniel's passion for elevating your team's role is both inspiring and actionable. Don't miss Adam Larson and Daniel Paik's deep dive into creating supportive, clear, and efficient work environments that lead to remarkable business outcomes. Tune in for this must-listen episode! Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/corporatepayments to learn more.

Tune into this episode of Count Me In, where host Adam Larson sits down with Rohit Kharbanda, Head of Hotel Finance Services & Growth at IHG Hotels & Resorts. With a 20+ year career at top companies like Hewlett-Packard, General Electric, and Oracle, Rohit shares vital insights into sustainable sourcing, reducing carbon footprints, and how green practices drive customer loyalty.Get the scoop on the challenges of ESG reporting, the strategic role of finance in sustainability, and the regulatory complexities of AI and data privacy. Rohit's mix of wit and wisdom offers practical advice for anyone curious about how sustainable practices are reshaping business.Don't miss this engaging conversation packed with forward-thinking strategies to protect our planet while achieving business success! Sponsor:Today's episode is brought to you by U.S. Bank. U.S. Bank is a trusted financial partner for our clients, businesses and communities. We believe in doing the right thing and putting people first. It's an honor to be recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies® by the Ethisphere Institute for the tenth consecutive year. From commercial credit cards and program management tools to innovative payment technologies and transportation offerings, U.S. Bank Corporate Payment Systems has the right solution to help your organization reduce payment costs, enhance control and streamline your entire payment processing function. We'll partner with you to uncover your challenges and provide smart, clear and honest guidance to help you meet the financial goals for your business. Visit usbank.com/ima to learn more.

Ron Robins, MBA Podcast: The World's Most Sustainable Corporations Transcript & Links, Episode 122, January 26, 2024 Hello, Ron Robins here. So, welcome to this podcast episode 122 titled “The World's Most Sustainable Corporations.” It's presented by Investing for the Soul. Investingforthesoul.com is your site for vital global ethical and sustainable investing mentoring, news, commentary, information, and resources. And look at my newly revised website at investingforthesoul.com! Tell me what you think. Now, remember that you can find a full transcript, and links to content – including stock symbols and bonus material – on this episode's podcast page located at investingforthesoul.com/podcasts. Also, a reminder. I do not evaluate any of the stocks or funds mentioned in these podcasts, nor do I receive any compensation from anyone covered in these podcasts. Furthermore, I will reveal to you any personal investments I have in the investments mentioned herein. Additionally, quotes about individual companies are brief. Please go to this podcast's webpage for links to the actual articles for more company and stock information. Also, some companies might be covered more than once and there are also 6 article links below that time didn't allow me to review them here. ------------------------------------------------------------- The Global 100 list: How the world's most sustainable corporations are driving the green transition I'm beginning this episode highlighting my favorite sustainable' Corporations ranking. You can find their just released 2024 ranking in this post titled The Global 100 list: How the world's most sustainable corporations are driving the green transition. The introduction is by Shawn McCarthy and posted on corporateknights.com. Here are some quotes. “Now in its 20th year, Corporate Knights' Global 100 ranking of the world's most sustainable companies reveals the top firms that are increasing their investments in green solutions such as renewable energy, energy efficiency and the circular economy. ‘When we launched the Global 100 in 2005, the green economy was a quaint idea. Many companies didn't publish in-house sustainability reports. There were no standardized key performance indicators, and none of the companies were reporting the percentage of their revenue or investments that were green,' says Corporate Knights co-founder and CEO Toby Heaps… In the 2024 Global 100 ranking, the top-ranked firms allocated 55% of their investments to sustainable projects, up from 47% the year prior. That compares with sustainable investments at a paltry 17% among the broader universe of publicly traded companies with more than US$1 billion in annual revenue… The 2024 Global 100 companies earned 51% of their revenues from sustainable sources in the fiscal year 2022, up from 50% the prior year. That compares with just 16% for the broader universe of companies… Top Companies Two Australian companies, Sims Ltd. (SMSMY) and Brambles Ltd. (BMBLF) top the 2024 ranking. Sims, this year's number one company, recycles scrap metal in 30 countries, and Brambles rents reusable pallets and containers around the globe. Both companies score 100% on sustainable revenue and sustainable investment… The Global 100 also awarded a ‘pivot prize' to Italian energy firm ERG SpA (ER9.BE), which completed its multiyear transition from black to green halfway through 2023… The Global 100 rates companies in 38 industry groups… based on 25 metrics. It applies different weighting to certain metrics given the nature of the sector. Sustainable revenue and sustainable investment are key measures… The Global 100 score far better on overall environmental, social and governance (ESG) metrics than do their peers. For example, 79% of Global 100 firms had sustainability-linked pay; only 30% of the broader corporate universe linked executive pay to the achievement of environmental or social sustainability targets… Between February 1, 2005, and December 15, 2023, the Global 100 saw a return of 287% on a U.S. dollar basis, while the MSCI ACWI had a return of 272%. The Dow Jones Sustainability World Index posted a return of 254% over that period.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- Franklin Templeton Positive On Green, Social Bonds In 2024 This second article features a green bond fund by a firm who was one of the pioneers in mutual funds. The article is titled Franklin Templeton Positive On Green, Social Bonds In 2024. It's by Amanda Cheesley and found wealthbriefing.com. Now some quotes from Ms. Cheesley. “David Zahn, head of European fixed income at Franklin Templeton, believes that sustainable investing will be a dominant investment trend, with structural tailwinds that could help improve financial returns… Zahn thinks that green and social bonds, which are typically issued to fund longer-term projects, are a good source of longer-duration investments… Zahn also believes that an expanding and increasingly diverse sustainable finance market means that attractive returns can go hand in hand with a positive impact on the environment and our communities… Zahn manages the Franklin Sustainable Euro Green Bond UCITS ETF (FLRG:SWX:EUR) which aims to provide exposure to the European green bond market whilst maximising total returns. It… invests mainly in bonds that are labelled green and denominated in European currencies. The fund… has outperformed the index over a three to five-year period.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- Top 10: Wind Power Companies Now this next article has an interesting ranking of the top global wind companies. It's titled Top 10: Wind Power Companies and is by Maya Derrick and seen on energydigital.com. Here are some quotes on the findings of Ms. Derrick's research. “Ranked by the latest available annual revenue stats, from year ending 2022, we run through the top 10 leading companies in the wind power industry. 10. Suzlon Revenue: US$403 million Country: India Indian multinational wind turbine manufacturer Suzlon is among the world's leading renewable energy solutions providers revolutionising and redefining the way sustainable energy sources are harnessed. The Suzlon Group has a presence in 17 countries across Asia, Australia, Europe, Africa and the Americas. 9. Renewable Energy Systems Americas Revenue: US$1.6 billion Country: USA Renewable Energy Systems Americas (RES) constructs renewable energy projects for its worldwide customer base. Renewable Energy Systems Americas now has an ever-growing portfolio, made up of 110 solar, wind, transmission and energy storage projects in the US alone and more than 1,000 miles of transmission line. 8. EDP Renewables North America Revenue: US$2.6bn Country: USA Owned by Spanish company EDP Renewables… With 59 wind farms and 12 solar parks in North America alone, EDP Renewables North America works to fulfil its mission of ‘leading the energy transition to create superior value for all'. 7. Avangrid Revenue: US$7.9bn Country: USA A part of the Iberdrola Group, Avangrid provides onshore and offshore wind power and solar power to clients across 20 US states… it has a footprint in 24 states with US$41 billion in assets… The company has… been named one of the World's Most Ethical Companies for five consecutive years by the Ethisphere Institute. 6. Vestas Revenue: US$15.5bn Country: Denmark Vestas designs, manufactures, installs and services wind turbines in 83 countries and has a workforce of more than 25,000 employees globally. The company has installed in excess of 66,000 wind turbines in its portfolio. 5. NextEra Energy Revenue: US$21bn Country: USA The American energy company that is one of the world's largest wind and solar energy generators and also operates nuclear power and natural gas plants. 4. RWE Renewables Revenue: US$41.7bn Country: USA Working toward a goal of being carbon-neutral by 2040, RWE is a key driver of the energy transformation, working across data networks, mobility, competitive industries and building infrastructure. The 125-year-old company works to balance the need to meet the growing demand for power while mitigating negative effects of climate change… It has 27 wind farms in operation across the country. 3. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Revenue: US$30.3bn Country: Japan Since Mitsubishi Heavy Industries delivered the first equipment for commercial use in Japan in 1982, the group has supplied more than 4,200 units, around 4.4GW, of wind power generators globally… It has a focus on on-shore wind turbines. 2. General Electric Revenue: US$76.6bn Country: USA GE is the largest renewable energy company by a significant margin… GE has installed more than 49,000 wind turbines and enough renewable energy sources to produce 400GW of energy worldwide… As well as this, GE's battery energy storage solutions can store and deliver electricity produced by their wind turbines. 1. Siemens Revenue: US$78bn Country: Germany (Siemens is) a more than 175-year-old technology company which played a major role in the early years of electricity, Siemens' wind power offering is extensive. The company established the world's first offshore wind power plant in 1991 and continues to be a large player in both the onshore and offshore spaces… Siemens Gamesa… is well-known for its SG 14.0-222 wind turbine… the largest wind turbine in the world.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- 3 EV Stocks Cementing Their Status as Top Long-Term Market Picks Many ethical and sustainable investors are buying EV stocks. Here's an article on that sector by Dmytro Spilka and found on investorplace.com. It's titled 3 EV Stocks Cementing Their Status as Top Long-Term Market Picks. Here are some quotes by Mr. Spilka on his picks. “1. Li Auto (NASDAQ:LI) At the core of Li's strong year was an astonishing 182.2% total deliveries growth to 376,030. Cumulative deliveries surpassed 600,000 vehicles. This makes the firm the most prolific among China's emerging new energy automakers.  With the upcoming launch of Li MEGA, the firm's flagship new MPV set to roll out in February 2024, the firm appears to be leading the charge to become China's EV market leader. Li Auto's recently announced partnership with semiconductor giant Nvidia (NASDAQ:NVDA) will see Nvidia's DRIVE Thor centralized car computer power Li's future EV fleets.  2. Rivian (NASDAQ:RIVN) has endured a fairly torrid time on Wall Street since its debut in late 2021… The news that the auto manufacturer will be supplying its vehicles for AT&T's (NYSE:T) fleet represents a significant coup for the firm… In perhaps its biggest statement of intent, Rivian produced 17,541 vehicles in Q4 alone… Rivian's management has boldly predicted that the firm will begin turning gross profit positive, making Rivian a solid pick for investors with a long-term outlook.  3. Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) Tesla… deliveries in Q4 alone hit a total of 484,507.  On top of this, the highly anticipated launch of the Cybertruck has helped to keep the stock in the spotlight. Tesla's commitment to autonomous driving is likely to ensure that it stays at the forefront of innovation… One of the stock's biggest supporters is Cathie Wood, CEO and CIO of Ark Invest (ARKK)… Wood claimed that Tesla stock could reach the $4,600 mark. That would be a price target of $1,533.33 when adjusted for the split.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- The Top 3 Stocks to Benefit from Next-Gen Energy Solutions My final article for this episode is titled The Top 3 Stocks to Benefit from Next-Gen Energy Solutions. It's by Steve Booyens and also found on investorplace,com. Due to limited space I'm just quoting Mr. Booyens briefly. “1. Brookfield Renewable Energy Partners (NYSE:BEP) A company with diversified renewable energy exposure with significant scale in store. 2. First Solar (NASDAQ:FSLR) Economies of scale and continuous capacity sequencing place First Solar best-in-class. 3. Enphase Energy (NASDAQ:ENPH) A buy-the-dip opportunity highly touted by Wells Fargo.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- Other Honorable Mentions – not in any order. 1. Title: 3 Top Renewable Energy Stocks to Power Up Your Portfolio on investorplace.com. By Muslim Farooque. 2. Title: 3 Alternative Energy Stocks to Watch Amid Rising Material Cost on finance.yahoo.com. By Aparajita Dutta. 3. Title: Morgan Stanley a Top Socially Responsible Dividend Stock With 3.7% Yield on nasdaq.com. By BNK Invest.   Articles from the UK and Canada 1. Title: Top 200 Ethical Businesses on thegoodshoppingguide.com. 2. Title: The top 20 ESG funds of 2023 on trustnet.com. By Matthew Cook. 3. Title: 2024 Responsible Funds Guide Canada on corporateknights.com. By Tim Nash. ------------------------------------------------------------- Ending Comment Well, these are my top news stories with their stock and fund tips -- for this podcast titled: “The World's Most Sustainable Corporations.” Now, please be sure to click the like and subscribe buttons on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you download or listen to this podcast. That helps bring these podcasts to others like you. And please click the share buttons to share this podcast with your friends and family. Let's promote ethical and sustainable investing as a force for hope and prosperity in these deeply troubled times! Contact me if you have any questions. Thank you for listening. And, again, please look at my new totally revised website at investingforthesoul.com. Tell me what you think! I'll talk to you next on February 9th. Bye for now.   © 2023 Ron Robins, Investing for the Soul

The Most Ethical US Companies includes coverage of the following articles: “22 Most Ethical Companies in the US,” by Habib Ur Rehman at Insider Monkey; “Top 15 Infrastructure Companies in the US,” by Ty Haqqi, also at Insider Monkey; and “Caterpillar Leads 5 Stocks To See Infrastructure Spending Boost,” by Harrison Miller. Plus much more Podcast: The Most Ethical US Companies Transcript & Links, Episode 96, December 16, 2022 Hello, Ron Robins here. Welcome to my podcast episode 96 published on December 16, 2022, titled “The Most Ethical US Companies” — and presented by Investing for the Soul. Investingforthesoul.com is your site for vital global ethical and sustainable investing mentoring, news, commentary, information, and resources. Remember that you can find a full transcript, and links to content – including stock symbols and bonus material – on this episode's podcast page located at investingforthesoul.com/podcasts. Now if any terms are unfamiliar to you, simply Google them. Also, a reminder. I do not evaluate any of the stocks or funds mentioned in these podcasts, nor do I receive any compensation from anyone covered in these podcasts. Furthermore, I will reveal to you any personal investments I have in the investments mentioned herein. Additionally, quotes about individual companies are brief so that I can get as many companies covered as possible in the time allowed. Please go to this podcast's webpage for links to the actual articles where you'll find much more great company information. Also, note several companies are covered more than once and there are also six article links below that time didn't allow me to review them here. Also, I'm taking some time off over the holidays, so my next episode of this podcast will be Friday, January 13, 2023! ------------------------------------------------------------- The Most Ethical US Companies The first article I'm covering today is titled 22 Most Ethical Companies in the US. It's by Habib Ur Rehman at Insider Monkey and found on yahoo.com. Mr. Rehman describes how they arrived at choosing these companies and then offers commentary on each one. “For our list of the 22 most ethical companies in the US, we've ranked them based on how many times they've been hailed as honorees for being ethical up until 2022 by Ethisphere Institute, a global leader in assessing ethical businesses. We've also mentioned each company's ESG-risk scores from Sustainalytics, a premier ESG grader… It assigns quantitative risk scores between 0 and 50 to corporations… and classifies them into any of… five risk categories: Negligible (0-10) Low (10-20), Medium (20-30), High (30-40), and Severe (40-50). 22. V.F. Corporation (NYSE:VFC) Ethisphere Honoree: 6 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 12.9 21. Oshkosh Corporation (NYSE:OSK) Ethisphere Honoree: 7 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 19.4 Oshkosh Corporation is a… machinery company that manufactures military vehicles, fire apparatus and truck bodies among others. 20. Mastercard Incorporated (NYSE:MA) Ethisphere Honoree: 7 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 17 19. The Allstate Corporation (NYSE:ALL) Ethisphere Honoree: 8 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 19.1 The Allstate Corporation is one of the biggest insurance companies in the United States. 18. Best Buy Co., Inc. (NYSE:BBY) Ethisphere Honoree: 8 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 14.2 17. CBRE Group, Inc. (NYSE:CBRE) Ethisphere Honoree: 9 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 6.9 CBRE is a… commercial real-estate investment company based in Dallas, Texas. 16. Dell Technologies Inc. (NYSE:DELL) Ethisphere Honoree: 10 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 16.5 15. Visa Inc. (NYSE:V) Ethisphere Honoree: 10 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 15.6 14. Henry Schein, Inc. (NASDAQ:HSIC) Ethisphere Honoree: 11 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 13.5 Henry Schein is a… multinational supplier of healthcare products and services. 13. Hasbro, Inc. (NASDAQ:HAS) Ethisphere Honoree: 11 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 7.1 12. Intel Corporation (NASDAQ:INTC) Ethisphere Honoree: 12 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 17 11. Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ:MSFT) Ethisphere Honoree: 12 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 15.2 10. ManpowerGroup Inc. (NYSE:MAN) Ethisphere Honoree: 13 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 10 ManpowerGroup is… the third largest staffing company in the world. 9. Teradata Corporation (NYSE:TDC) Ethisphere Honoree: 13 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 17.4 Teradata Corporation is a… software corporation that provides analytics software. 8. Waste Management, Inc. (NYSE:WM) Ethisphere Honoree: 13 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 16.8 7. Salesforce, Inc. (NYSE:CRM) Ethisphere Honoree: 13 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 13.2 Salesforce is a major… software company based in San Francisco, California. 6. Rockwell Automation, Inc. (NYSE:ROK) Ethisphere Honoree: 14 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 17.7 5. Premier, Inc. (NASDAQ:PINC) Ethisphere Honoree: 15 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 19.9 Premier is a… healthcare company. 4. Cummins Inc. (NYSE:CMI) Ethisphere Honoree: 15 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 19.4 Cummins is a… machinery company. 3. Deere & Company (NYSE:DE) Ethisphere Honoree: 15 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 16.6 2. Aflac Incorporated (NYSE:AFL) Ethisphere Honoree: 16 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 16.9 1. Jones Lang LaSalle Incorporated (NYSE:JLL) Ethisphere Honoree: 15 Times / ESG-Risk Score: 6.8 Jones Lang LaSalle… has provided its Science-Based-Target-initiative (SBTi) aligned to the 1.5 degrees Celsius goal of the Paris Agreement.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- Top 15 Infrastructure Companies in the US Here's another analyst from Insider Monkey, Ty Haqqi, with his analysis titled Top 15 Infrastructure Companies in the US. Also, on yahoo.com. Again, the writer explains how they picked these companies. He then follows with brief outlines of each company. All market caps are as of December 3, 2022, and dollar numbers are millions of dollars. I start at #13 due to duplication of data for #'s 14 and 15. “The top infrastructure companies in the U.S. are giants of the industry… To determine these companies, we have considered their market cap, revenue, profit and assets, assigning 30% weightage to the first three criteria and 10% to the last one. 13. Construction Partners, Inc. (NASDAQ:ROAD) Total market cap: $1,559 Total assets: $4,809 Construction Partners is one of the fastest-growing civil infrastructure companies. 12. Uniti Group Inc. (NASDAQ:UNIT) Total market cap: $1,770 Total profits: $124 Uniti Group is involved in the acquisition as well as construction of infrastructure pertaining to critical communication. 11. SBA Communications Corporation (NASDAQ:SBAC) Total market cap: $31,877 Total profits: $238 SBA Communications is one of several real estate investment trusts which owns and also operates wireless infrastructure. 10. Crown Castle Inc. (NYSE:CCI) Total market cap: $60,700 Total profits: $1,158 Crown Castle is a real estate investment trust and also provides shared communication infrastructure. 9. Plains All American Pipeline, L.P. (NASDAQ:PAA) Total market cap: $8,548 Total profits: $593 Plains All American Pipeline is engaged in pipeline transport. 8. Sempra (NYSE:SRE) Total market cap: $52,157 Total profits: $1,318 Sempra is an energy infrastructure company. 7. Kinder Morgan, Inc. (NYSE:KMI) Total market cap: $42,707 Total profits: $1,784 Kinder Morgan is the biggest energy company in the U.S. 6. Norfolk Southern Corporation (NYSE:NSC) Total market cap: $58,821 Total profits: $3,005 Norfolk Southern operates more than 19,000 miles (of railways) in 22 states in the Eastern side of the U.S. and Norfolk Southern Corporation is also responsible for the maintenance of 28,400 miles. 5. American Tower Corporation (NYSE:AMT) Total market cap: $102,140 Total profits: $2,568 American Tower provides wireless and broadcast communications infrastructure in the United States and several other countries worldwide. 4. CSX Corporation (NASDAQ:CSX) Total market cap: $67,382 Total profits: $3,781 CSX is one of the biggest railroad companies in the U.S. 3. Union Pacific Corporation (NYSE:UNP) Total market cap: $132,016 Total profits: $6,523 Union Pacific is the biggest railroad company in the U.S. as well as among the top infrastructure companies in the U.S. 2. Comcast Corporation (NASDAQ:CMCSA) Total market cap: $155,037 Total profits: $14,159 Comcast is one of the biggest conglomerates in the world and is the second largest broadcasting and cable television company in the world in terms of revenue. 1. AT&T Inc. (NYSE:T) Total market cap: $135,556 Total profits: $20,081 AT&T (is) the largest telecom company in the world.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- Caterpillar Leads 5 Stocks To See Infrastructure Spending Boost Continuing on the theme of infrastructure is this article Caterpillar Leads 5 Stocks To See Infrastructure Spending Boost, by Harrison Miller, found on investors.com' Here are some quotes from Mr. Miller on each of his picks. “All of the companies should see a boost from the recent infrastructure bill and the Inflation Reduction Act. The infrastructure spending plan… will dole out more than $500 billion for various projects. And the Inflation Reduction Act includes $369 billion to expedite mining projects and build out renewable energy infrastructure. 1. Caterpillar Stock (CAT) The construction giant has rallied nearly 50% since bottoming in late September, and saw positive earnings and revenue growth the past two quarters. 2. United Rentals (URI) Earnings growth for the world's largest equipment rental company fluctuated over the past seven quarters, averaging roughly 40% gains during that time. 3. Terex Stock (TEX) Materials processor and machine maker Terex… earnings and revenue jumped 79% and 13%, respectively, for the most recent quarter after three periods of decelerating gains. 4. Deere Stock (DE) Agriculture equipment manufacturer Deere's… shares are way up after a big run going back to late September. 5. Martin Marietta Stock (MLM) The building materials and concrete supplier shed 19% from its stock price so far this year, but started to recover at the beginning of the summer.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- 3 Alternative Energy Stocks to Buy Amid U.S.-EU Trade Rift Now back to our old familiar sector, alternative energy, with this article titled 3 Alternative Energy Stocks to Buy Amid U.S.-EU Trade Rift. It's by Zacks analyst Aparajita Dutta. And found on sports.yahoo.com. (Note, some of you might have concerns about the designation of ‘alternative energy' being applied to two of the stocks.) Now some quotes from Ms. Dutta. “The forerunners in the U.S. alternative energy industry are Texas Pacific Land, HF Sinclair and Clearway Energy. 1. HF Sinclair (DINO) Based in Dallas, TX, this company is an energy company, which produces and markets light products such as gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, renewable diesel and other specialty products… HF Sinclair currently sports a Zacks Rank #1 (Strong Buy). 2. Texas Pacific Land (TPL) Based in Dallas, TX, Texas Pacific Land is one of the largest landowners in the State of Texas operating under two business segments: Land and Resource Management and Water Services and Operations… Texas Pacific Land currently carries a Zacks Rank #1. 3. Clearway Energy (CWEN) Based in San Francisco, CA, Clearway Energy owns, operates and acquires renewable and conventional generation and thermal infrastructure projects.” End quotes. ------------------------------------------------------------- Now some Other Honorable Mentions – no particular order 1) From Canada, Title: 3 Best-in-Class Stocks to Build Long-Term Wealth on fool.ca. By Robin Brown. 2) Title: 14 Best Environmental Stocks to Buy Now on yahoo.com. By Omer Farooq. 3) Title: 10 Most Responsible Retailers of 2023 on risnews.com. By Liz Dominguez. 4) Title: 8 Best Solar Power Stocks Of 2022 on forbes.com. By Cory Mitchell. 5) Title: 7 Best Socially Responsible Funds | Investing on money.usnews.com. By Jeff Reeves. UK article Title: Best ESG ETFs to Buy UK in 2022 on investingreviews.co.uk. By Antonia Medlicott. ------------------------------------------------------------- Ending Comment Well, these are my top news stories with their stock and fund tips -- for this podcast: “The Most Ethical US Companies.” Now, please be sure to click the like and subscribe buttons on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you download or listen to this podcast. That helps bring these podcasts to others like you. And please click the share buttons to share this podcast with your friends and family. Let's promote ethical and sustainable investing as a force for hope and prosperity in these terribly troubled times! Contact me if you have any questions. Thank you for listening. Now I'm taking some time off over the holidays, so my next episode of this podcast will be Friday, January 13, 2023! I wish you and your family and friends a most joyous, healthy, and fulfilling holiday period! Bye for now. © 2022 Ron Robins, Investing for the Soul

Hon. Jim Carroll has substantial experience as a legal advisor to two White House administrations, federal government agencies, and a Fortune 25 company. He counsels clients on complex and sensitive issues involving government and internal investigations, corporate ethics and compliance programs, and white collar defense. In his 30-plus years as an attorney and a Washington insider, Jim has also built a reputation as a go-to choice for strategic business and policy counseling. In addition to his role as a Partner at Michael Best, Jim is also a principal at Michael Best Consulting LLC. Previously, Jim was a co-founder and principal of DC Consulting LLC, a consulting firm specializing in public health, pharmaceutical and substance abuse and regulatory risk involving law enforcement issues. Earlier in his career, Jim spent a decade as in-house counsel at Ford Motor Company where for many years he was the Company's Global Director of Compliance. Jim also served as the nation's “Drug Czar” for three years, following his unanimous confirmation by the United States Senate. Jim's significant federal government and legal experience include the following: - Starting in 2018, served for three years as the Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy after being unanimously confirmed by the United States Senate. Under Jim's leadership as the “US Drug Czar”, the U.S. saw its first year-over-year decrease in overdose deaths in 30 years. - Served in a number of high-profile posts at the White House between 2016 to 2018, including roles as Deputy Chief of Staff and Deputy White House Counsel. - Appointed General Counsel of the U.S. Office of Management and Budget. - Spent 10 years as a legal advisor to the Ford Motor Company. Jim served as the automaker's Washington Counsel and Global Director of Compliance. During Jim's tenure there, Ford was named one of the “World's Most Ethical Companies” for three consecutive years by Ethisphere Institute. Jim was also General Counsel to the Ford Motor Company Fund, the company's philanthropic arm. - Served as Deputy General Counsel and Acting General Counsel to the U.S. Department of the Treasury. - Served as Associate Counsel and Special Assistant to the President between 2002 to 2004. - Attorney at  the Department of Justice, Office of Legal Policy. Selected as Assistant Ethics Counsel in the White House Office of Counsel to the President. - Served as Attorney Advisor to the Department of Justice, Executive Office for United States Attorneys. Jim began his legal career as a prosecutor in the Virginia Commonwealth Attorney's Office in Fairfax, VA. He went on to serve as Assistant Bar Counsel for the Virginia State Bar before transitioning his career to the federal level.

What you'll learn in this podcast episode As the business world makes an overdue shift from shareholder to stakeholder capitalism, is it possible that we will see an erosion of innovation? How does a company's purpose impact its success? In this episode of the Principled Podcast, LRN Chief Advisory Officer Ty Francis MBE talks about how corporate purpose and stakeholder capitalism fuel innovation with Mark R. Hatch, CEO of clean energy startup SiLi-ion, Inc., an instigator of the maker movement with the founding of TechShop, author of The Maker Movement Manifesto and The Maker Revolution, and researcher on the influence of “organizational purpose” on innovation and business transformation at Pepperdine University. Mark has dedicated his career to educating the business community on innovation and advanced manufacturing and has spoken at the White House on these topics. Listen in as the two discuss what it means to help people—and companies—around the world do the right thing.   Featured Guest: Mark Hatch Mark R. Hatch is an advanced manufacturing entrepreneur, writer, and sought-after speaker and advisor on innovation, the maker movement, digital strategy, and advanced manufacturing. He has held executive positions for innovation, disruptive technology, entrepreneurship, and intrapreneurship in various industry sectors. Mark is the CEO of clean energy startup SiLi-ion, Inc. and an advisor to Studio MFG, an advanced spatial-web innovation consulting and manufacturing design firm. Mark has dedicated his career to educating the business community on innovation and advanced manufacturing and has spoken about these topics to various audiences—including the White House, TEDx, Global Fortune 500 firms, and Harvard University. He has appeared on prominent media outlets such as ABC, CBS, NBC, Bloomberg, CNN, and Fox, and has been quoted in Bloomberg Business, FastCompany, Forbes, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The LA Times, and The San Francisco Chronicle among other publications. An avid researcher on the influence of “organizational purpose” on innovation and business transformation, Mark is working on his DBA at Pepperdine University and is a faculty member for digital innovation and strategy at Pepperdine's Graziado School of Business. He is also an entrepreneur in residence at UC Berkeley. Mark holds an MBA from the Drucker Center at Claremont Graduate University and a BA in economics from UCI.   Featured Host: Ty Francis Ty Francis MBE is a Welsh-American business development, operations executive, and subject matter expert in Corporate Governance, Ethics, Compliance and Culture and is currently LRN's Head of Advisory Services, and a member of the Executive Team as a Special Advisor to the CEO.  Ty has utilized his expansive network of industry experts and thought leaders to help companies enhance corporate character, culture, D&I and transparency and has launched E&C programs and forums in the US, UK, France, Hong Kong, Japan, Brazil, Singapore, Brazil and the Middle East. He spent over a decade in New York City where he was EVP of Global Programs at the Ethisphere Institute and prior to that led the Corporate Board member business at the New York Stock Exchange's Governance Services division.  In 2019, he was awarded an Honorary Doctorate in Business by the UK's Solent University for his outstanding contribution in the field of corporate governance and international trade. In 2017, Ty was appointed a Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (MBE), by Queen Elizabeth II, in recognition of services to business.  Ty also studied at Stanford's Rock Centre for Corporate Governance and Oxford University's Said Business School and is a Certified Compliance & Ethics Professional (CCEP).    Principled Podcast Transcription Intro: Welcome to the Principled Podcast, brought to you by LRN. The Principled Podcast brings together the collective wisdom on ethics, business and compliance, transformative stories of leadership, and inspiring workplace culture. Listen in to discover valuable strategies from our community of business leaders, and workplace change makers. Ty Francis: As the business world makes an overdue shift from shareholder to stakeholder capitalism, is it possible that we'll see an erosion of innovation? How does a company's purpose impact its success? Hello, and welcome to another episode of LRN's Principled Podcast. I'm your host, Ty Francis, Chief Advisory Officer LRN. Today I'm joined by Mark Hatch, an accomplished entrepreneur, advanced manufacturing expert, and sought after speaker on topics of innovation, disruptive technology, and the future of work. Mark holds an MBA from the Drucker Center at Claremont Graduate University. And is presently pursuing a DBA, a doctor of business administration, from Pepperdine University. We are going to be talking today about corporate purpose, stakeholder capitalism, and what it means to help people, and companies around the world do the right thing. After several successful decades in business, Mark is now researching the influence of organizational purpose on innovation and business transformation at Pepperdine, while simultaneously serving as CEO of the clean energy startup, SiLi-ion, amongst other things. Mark Hatch, thanks for joining me on the Principled Podcast. Mark Hatch: Thank you very much, Ty. It's great to be here. Ty Francis: Okay so, for those of us saying to ourselves, "Where have I heard this name before," please tell us a little bit about your professional history. Now, we know you as the founder of TechShop, and an instigator in the maker movement. What else? Oh, yes, you've spoken at White House about advanced manufacturing, and at the Clinton Global Initiative, something my wife [inaudible 00:01:58] was actually involved in during her time at Swiss Re. Mark Hatch:   Oh, how fun. Ty Francis: Yeah, she was at Swiss Re for about 10 years and worked very closely with President Clinton. So, that's a name, it's all too familiar in my household. But I also know you're involved in the Singularity University, which sounds very Star Trekky, which is an interesting side note, especially since we're talking about purpose today. So, I've given an overview, but can you give us a little bit more about your backstory Mark? Mark Hatch:   Oh, hit a couple high points. I'm a former green beret, so I was in the army for three years coming out of high school, which was quite entertaining. And then, I started my first company, an interactive multimedia company back in '80s. One of the things I've discovered that I'm really good at is jumping into something way too early. And then, getting beaten up for years and years until it becomes the obvious next thing. The interesting thing about that interactive media though, was that John McAfee of McAfee Antivirus was one of my first investors. I actually got to know John before he became infamous, I guess. I spent a little bit of time at Avery Dennison, a big package goods company. A little bit of time at Kinkos, where I launched the e-commerce portion for Kinkos. And pulled T1 lines around the United States to wire them all up. Spent a little bit of time doing a health benefits ASP and so forth. But most people, if they know who I am at all, is from the maker movement days wrote a couple books in it, and spent a lot of time traipsing around the globe trying to get people to make things again. Ty Francis: Well, I want to touch a couple of those things. So now, you aren't the average professor, as we've just heard, because you've got some real bites to your bark. Within what you just told me, I did read that you raised over $20 million and turned TechShop into that leading brand in the maker movement, growing it from 1 to 12 locations. And more impressively membership and revenue 20X in five years. I got that right, 20X? Mark Hatch: 20, yeah. As long as you start from a very small base, it's really easy to hit those high numbers. Ty Francis: I think you and I have got a different definition of the word easy.  If that wasn't impressive enough, you also grew that $200 million business at Kinkos by 18%. But I think more impressive than that, and someone who runs a P and L you cut costs by 15 million in a single year. Mark Hatch: In a single year, yeah. Ty Francis: That is both impressive. And I get, your students get a kick out of all that experience. We had a pre-conversation before. And I mentioned that I'm lucky enough to know Sir Richard Branson. And he told me years ago how he went into a bookshop, and pulled a bunch of books off the library that were about business. I think the first 20 he counted, none of the authors had actually been in business, or run a business, and were anecdotal at best. Looking at what you've done and what you've succeeded, how has that happened? And how has that paradigm shifted to you now? Mark Hatch: One, I do actually tend to live in the future. It's a bad habit. I've got a very, very clear view of what I believe is going to happen. And I clearly did not take my desert training in the Special Forces very well, where they beat into your head, never mistake a clear view for a short distance. It will kill you. So, I saw interactive multimedia early. I saw dot com early. I've seen many of these things. What I managed to do with TechShop was raise funds, and grow the base quickly enough so that we actually survive for a solid 10 years. But what I do is innovation. My entire career has been on the edge between in a research and development, or the most recent trends, and then commercializing them, turning them into something that a consumer can understand, and acquire. Ty Francis: So, I am seeing a Star Trek theme in all of this, by the way. Seeing into the future. A Q-esque type person here. But this is fascinating. And you, obviously, have an incredible foundation [inaudible 00:06:08] what you are doing, looking at the past, predicting the future. But I do want to tap more into the research you're doing at Pepperdine. And as part of your DBA, again, I'm looking at this and I have an honorary doctorate, and I feel very, very small right now. Mark Hatch: Congratulations. That's quite impressive actually. Ty Francis: Yeah, but apparently when the air cabin crew asks if there's a doctor on the plane, I'm not allowed to raise my hand. When they say, "What can you help this person with?" I can say, "Well, I've got an interesting anecdote about business." So the DBA you're pursuing right now, I mean, I particularly admire the notion of going back to school for an advanced degree. I've had a limited amount of business success. And during the lockdown, I took three courses, one at a side business university at Oxford, one at Stanford, and one at the London School of Economics. The recurring theme through all of those courses... One was executive leadership. One was DEI and leveraging business through it. And the other was international relations and global politics. Organizational purpose was a common theme through all of those postgraduate and diplomas. And it was fascinating how that was a theme, and linking back into business. So, I want you to talk about your work on organizational purpose. But first of all, can you give me, or us a definition of your definition of organizational purpose? Mark Hatch:    There are like three versions of what purpose means. But to get a little bit technical, the short version is really simple. Like the single word, the single concept is why a corporation exists. That's what purpose means, why? Now, usually, when you use the term, what is your corporate purpose? You're not thinking of the single thing that the word means. You're thinking of a corporate purpose statement, or a development of a series of concepts. Or, as they say in business speak, it's a construct. So, I have adopted George et al's from 2021, which is interesting. Most of this good work has happened just in the last few years. So, purpose in the for profit context captures the essence of an organization's existence by explaining what value it seeks to create for its stakeholders. So, you're creating value. But then he goes on and defines it a little bit more, which I like. "In doing so purpose provides a clear definition of firm's intent, creates the ability for the stakeholders to identify with and be inspired by the firm's mission, vision, and values, and establishes actionable pathways, and an inspirational outcome for the firm." Sorry, that's very technical, but that's the best broad version that includes mission, vision, and values, which people tend to associate with purpose when you ask them what a corporate purpose is. But let me back up a little bit. So, the reason I got intrigued with this was, well first of all, I'm very purpose driven personally. I was, usually, involved with technologies that I found intriguing, and could improve humanity in some way. But my experience at TechShop was at a completely different level. People were joining because of the purpose of this idea that we could remake our lives by going to a shop that had, basically, democratized access to the tools of the industrial revolution. We were giving the average Joe access to tools that they had never had access to, unless they were 80 years old, had come up at three machine shop or something. But we were giving them laser cutters, and 3D printers, and so forth.  And I personally got a level of satisfaction out of that. And I got my staff members to perform at levels I had never seen before. We had members that are evangelists. I mean, it seemed like sometimes they would go out on the street and tell people, "Have you heard of this place? You've got to come in." We had this one member, he quit his job. And he didn't have a great job to begin with, but he quit his job as a night watchman, came up and couch surfed. Like that was a thing for a while, couchsurfing.com where you could go and spend the night at somebody's house randomly. This was well before hotel folks came along. He would evangelize each couch that he slept on became a member, like not the couch, the people. Every place that he went, we got new members. And we thought about maybe paying him just to hang around, and sleep on a new couch every night because he was our best attractor. And so, this got me really interested in this concept of what is your corporate purpose? And how does it play out and impact the organization at large? Ty Francis: I think the biggest question that we have, and I have is when people are talking about this concept, how organizations are dealing with this, how are you articulating this to companies, to brands, to leaders, and how to actually put this into practice? Because many of the conversations I have with boards, with GCs, with anyone, they understand the problem. They see what's happening. They read and they see blogs, and they have conversations with the fellow board members. But it's actually the tangibility of creating a strategy that puts this into place. And something they can follow. I guess what's the sticky sauce? What's the magic wand that you throw over your clients, your peers on how do I actually put this into play? Mark Hatch: So the research that I'm doing specifically came out of kind of the question, how do I deal with the naysayers? How do I convince a board, or a C-suite folks that are like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever. I've got my ESG guy and they're going to keep me between the lanes, and everything's going to be fine." I started down this path as like, what do we actually know about corporate purpose? Where did it spring from? Actually, I go all the way back. What's the original concept of a corporation? Where did that come from? And it goes all the way back. It's crazy. It goes all the way back to pre-Babylonian times. And I won't bore you with all of that, but it turns out you couldn't have a corporation without having a purpose of some kind. It wasn't allowed. The state would not allow it. The king would not allow it. I've got a great quote out of the Law of Corporations 1702, "The sole purpose of a corporation is to improve the society and support the king." Full stop. You can't say, "Okay, I'm here to do like, blah, blah, blah. And I'm going to make this." No, no, no, no. How are you going to help your customers? How are you going to improve society? And how are you going to support the king? And if you don't have an answer to that, I'm sorry, not only will I not give you corporation, if I happen to have given you one, and you have strayed too far, I will shut you down. And this was actually the norm up to about 1880 globally. And there's this great quote. It was Massachusetts Bay Company and they charged this poor sod 200 pounds for overcharging his customer. And then, on Sunday morning, the preacher got engaged talking about the egregious greed, and what can happen. And it was simply against the law. And then, things changed with the 14th amendment, some other bizarre things. But we've had this like weird era, and that's how I would describe it, between 1886 to about 1950, we were set loose. You didn't have to have a purpose at all. You actually didn't need any purpose at all. You could just go down to Delaware and say, "I want to set up a company." And they go, "Great." They still would ask, what are you going to do? And so, in your mind, you had to at least have a customer, or somebody you were going to steal money from. You had to have some idea. So even today in your charters, you have to say, "Okay, I'm going to be in this industry segment," which by the way, you just send them a note and that can change. But about around 1950, that started to shift. So, that was a long winded way of saying, so how do we deal with these guys? And what I wanted to do, and what I'm doing is I'm a practical guy, I'm a practitioner. I don't want to sell them something that doesn't work. What does that mean for your purpose? And so, I'm really intrigued with this idea of empirically based management tools. How do you know something works? Not one of those 19 books that Sir Branson was talking about, but the one that comes out of the trenches. So, I've gone back and I've done a fairly significant review of all of the literature on corporate purpose. What's actually known from a theoretical perspective from doing interviews, which I don't put a lot of weight into because you get what you want out of your interviews. But actual empirical work that's been done in this space. And it turns out those corporations that do have a purpose that's more than simply serving customers, they have substantially superior financial returns. And actually, I think your firm is an example that promulgates that point of view based on research you guys have done in the past. Ty Francis: Our tagline is, principle performance. And I'll add that some research we did last year echoes most of what you're saying. I mean, all of what you're saying. My own advisory team released a report alongside our marketing team. And we called it our LRN Benchmark of Ethical Culture, which is a multi-year, it's a collaborative research effort, which draws data from nearly 8,000 employees, 17 industries, 14 countries. And that study conclusively proves that ethical cultures don't just protect corporate reputations, but they propel the bottom line. Companies with the strongest ethical cultures, strongly outperform by approximately 40% those with weakest ethical cultures. And that was across all measures of business performance, customer satisfaction. You talked about employee loyalty, innovation, adaptability, and growth. It's very simple, and you can make a lot of links to this. But if you keep people happy, if people believe in what you are doing, they will stay. If they stay, they will not leave. If they will not leave, they will not take IP with them. They will not go somewhere else. So, all that money you've invested in hiring them, training them, making them better people they will not take that somewhere else. Mark Hatch: Yeah, your brand positioning, your ability to [inaudible 00:16:32]. The theory is actually pretty well illuminated. Actually, the step that I'm taking... I think we have, in fact, proven that having a higher purpose can, or will result in superior financial success. So, there's my answer to the naysayers. This is really simple besides being the right thing to do, and to feel good about yourself, and your company when you go home at night, and you talk to your kids about what you're doing, your returns are higher. But the next question that I asked is, okay, show me how? Just throwing a purpose together and announcing it from the mountaintop is not the right answer. Now, we are getting results, so kudos to the companies that are executing. But I'm trying to answer the question, okay, how do you operationalize a superior purpose? What are the actual specific financial drivers that create superior firm performance? Innovation, and then specifically radical innovation is historically the largest way that firms create superior returns by far. There are other ways of doing it: brand, financial management, operations, Six Sigma, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the number one way of improving your financial performance is actually to do innovation. And then radical innovation in particular. That's my little chunk that I'm chewing on is can I show that firms with a higher aspirational purpose actually get superior innovation returns and superior radical innovation returns? And the quantitative numbers have come in. I'm now working on writing it up. And it's clear like it's 0.0001 chance that it's false. In fact, a higher purpose does drive radical innovation in a very significant way. It explains 30% of the variance of that. And like 35 to 37% of all variance in your innovation. It's huge. So, my answer is, okay, install, purpose, and innovate. Point this amazing effort that you've created, point this missile down the range at radical innovation because you're going to get an enormous return out of it. Ty Francis: You've actually answered the next question I was going to ask about, what this means for the future of business, and what is your vision for how company leaders can apply these insights? As you said, it's not enough for somebody to read in a book about what's happening. It's how they can relate that and put that into practice to change the dynamic of their own companies. We're not just talking about this. Investors are asking companies point blank, define your purpose. What are you doing to make the world around you better? Larry Fingers, writing to CEOs every single year. In the UK, the banking industry are asking, "Yes, we get it. You're raising capital for people, but what else are you doing?" It's a little bit, what have you done for me lately kind of thing. Mark Hatch: We've come full circle now. In 1886, we decided, okay, you don't have to have a purpose. But now, we are rewriting the laws. The SEC in the US, the UK, as you mentioned, the French have done it. The Italians have done it. The Germans did it ages ago. But there's an enormous amount of pressure now on corporations to be able to explicitly measure what their social good is. They don't necessarily call it your purpose, but that's what they're getting at. When I came at this, of course, I have the context of working at Singularity University as a speaker. And I know, I know a friend of mine is Salim Ismail, who's driving this whole exponential organization's effort globally. And, in it, he said, sidebar conversation. "So Mark, I've tried to do these exponential innovation efforts without a massively transformative purpose at the beginning of the effort because the corporation was like, 'Yeah, you're making me feel kind of weird about this idea of changing the world and all that. We're an X company, let's just do the execution part and skip the massively transformative purpose part.'" And he said, "Every single time we did that, it failed. Every single time. We got nominal innovation out of it." And it actually makes sense when you think about the internal resistance of individuals in their risk profiles. Typically, you go to work and you want to have things normal. And then, what's going to happen all day long, and you're competent and so forth. But when you start doing innovation and, particularly radical innovation, you don't know what tomorrow looks like. You don't understand who your customer is. You don't know what the value is per se. And you're thrown in the deep end and you got to figure it out. Now, it's not quite that bad, but it is substantially different than your day-to-day. And it's hard. Doing radical innovation is the hardest part of being in business because you don't know how it's going to come out. That as a background, is like, "Oh my goodness, you're kidding me. You just told me that one of the keys to being able to execute this isn't actually reaching for the stars." It's not like, can we get a 15% increase in this? Or can we cut costs by 10% or 5%? It's can you cut cost by 50%? Can we double our market share? Can we open up an entirely new market segment? Just saying those words creates a new tension in somebody's head. You bring them in and say, "Okay, we're going to get 10% here, and 15% there." And everybody goes, "Oh cool, I don't have to change anything. I can go back to my desk and keep stamping those pieces of paper. And I'm good." You come in and say, "I want a 50% increase. And I need a 30% reduction over here," actually you've lost the audience because for the next five minutes, all they're going to be wondering is whether or not they have a job. Am I qualified to do this? That's what got me going. And we live in the most exciting time in all of human history. We've got more technologies coming on stream in amazing and radical ways, and how they're interacting with one another is absolutely stunning. So, this is the best time in all of human history to do radical innovation. This is the best time to go after actually deep purposes. And I feel sorry for these corporations who are going, "Okay, let's try to get a 12% bump over the next two years." They're doomed. In my mind it's like, forget it. You and I and others in this world are going to teach the executive suite that radical innovation is possible, it will drive the bottom line, make them feel better and will, in fact, change the world. And I'm proving it empirically. That's kind of what I'm excited about. Ty Francis: It reminds me of a quote that was a famous NFL coach. And I can't remember it now and I'll come back to you by the end of the podcast. But it was about reaching for perfection that you'll never attain it. But on the way down, you will hit excellence. And I think this is an area why people aren't reaching for the stars is surprising because it's that competitive advantage. When we talk about how this is a competitive advantage, not just on a social scale, but on a business scale, we've been talking to board directors. We had a collaboration with a group called Tapestry Networks. We spoke to 40 directors of publicly traded companies, I mean 40, 50 companies. And they represented about 70 or 80 different companies across their different board positions. We did this specifically to talk about purpose and culture. We released the findings in a report called Activating Culture and Ethics for Boards late last year. And the results, albeit mostly predictable, the boards want to put culture at the top of their priority list, but they still don't fully understand how to measure it. The refreshing part was that they see that the paradigm shifted from board members having a nose in, fingers out ability to more having nose and fingers in because they are starting to see this as a competitive benefit to having both strategy and culture and purpose aligned. And with that, I think they're seeing they have a better understanding of what corporate purpose should be. I think we're trying to see a tangible move in the... I'm using quotation marks here, a "tone from the top" conversation on how boards are impacting priorities, and are influencing culture. So, how does that help your research for what you are doing now for the future of work? Mark Hatch: You've done the surveys, you know what the answers are. But what I'm trying to do is start a small renaissance around, prove it to me. What are the actual ways that you operationalize it? It's like, okay, employee retention. Okay, measure employee retention. But don't just measure employee retention, invest in your employees. If you know that they're going to hang around longer, don't just sit on your hands, and say, "Oh cool, they're going to be here longer. Woo hoo." No, no, no. What that means is you can't actually invest in them in ways that your competitors can't. That's operationalizing this idea of this competitive advantage, invest in your customers, invest in your brand. What are you doing specifically to drive your brand in relations in a deeper way? You've created this competitive advantage. You've got this great purpose now sitting on the shelf. Great. How are you going to operationalize it? And can we measure it? That's my point. It's can we actually measure it and see what the returns are? Ty Francis: The measurement, that's the trick. Everyone knows what they should be doing, but they don't know how they should be doing it. Mark Hatch: And if you don't measure it, then you don't care about it. Ty Francis: Wasn't that the famous misquote from Peter Drucker what you can't manage, you can measure, or the other way around? Mark Hatch: Right. Ty Francis: So we've been talking a lot about boards and purpose, but we know the SEC, and we're talking about the US. Obviously, although I'm American, I'm also Welsh. So, I'm curious if your research extends to Europe, or other regions. I mean, is this universal? Or is it just stage one USA, stage two [inaudible 00:25:55]? Mark Hatch:    It does work at least in the UK. So, I chose my sample's 50/50, US/UK. 50/50, male/female. Native English speakers, try to control for some other variables. This is clearly true in the UK and the US. My suspicion, obviously, is that it's true in a lot of other parts of the world as well. Other research suggests that it is at least pan-European. Gartenberg's work and others. Gartenberg did some quantitative research that had 500,000 companies in it from around the globe. And they were able to show empirically that purpose does, in fact, drive superior financial returns, similar to what your research did. Ty Francis: When you're talking about this corporate purpose, I've noticed working in the States for a long time, that there is in the States and, to a certain extent, in the UK as well, there's a shareholder driven purpose kind of alignment where there's in broader Europe, France, and Germany, and Italy there's more of a stakeholder driven perception. So, there you see in Germany where you've got the different kind of board levels, and with the very straight labor laws in France, you are seeing that connection between leadership, and the employee base having to be aligned because they've got no choice because if they don't like what their companies are doing, they can change it, and quite dramatically. So, that would be interesting to see how that dynamic between the UK and the US, but then certainly further afield of that, how the European companies and organizations are actually using this corporate purpose vehicle to their competitive advantage. Mark Hatch: Right. One might hypothesize that corporate purpose, that's a fundamental driver. But how you operationalize it may vary from region to region. Maybe brand is a better tool than radical innovation. Maybe employee retention is a better one. I'm not sure. I doubt it, frankly. I think innovation is one of the fundamental things that you do as a business. Drucker would say, you're not even an entrepreneur, if you're not doing innovation. You can call yourself a businessman, but you're not an entrepreneur. And so, I suspect that innovation. And then as we're moving, again, the opportunity set available now to innovate is phenomenal. Radical innovation, it should be a fundamental strategy for any business that's trying to drive purpose into their organization, and with their stakeholders. Ty Francis: Well, before we sign off, and before I get a raft of my very angry American listeners asking why this British guy is talking about American football? It was Vince Lombardi, [inaudible 00:28:28]. And his quote was, and I'll see if I can get this right, "Perfection's not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." Mark Hatch: Yeah. Ty Francis: So Mark Hatch, this has been a fascinating conversation and one that we have merely pricked the surface of. And I'd like to have you back to talk a little bit more definitively, especially when the research is done, to look at those results. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me today and us on this episode.       My name is Ty Francis. I want to thank you all for listening to the Principled Podcast by LRM. If you have enjoyed the conversation today, please do give us a top rating on your favorite podcast app. Goodbye for now. Outro: We hope you enjoyed this episode. The Principled Podcast is brought to you by LRN. At LRN, our mission is to inspire principled performance in global organizations by helping them foster winning ethical cultures rooted in sustainable values. Please visit us at lrn.com to learn more. And if you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen. And don't forget to leave us a review.

Since 1923 Hasbro has delighted generations with beloved toys, games and brands that are synonymous with childhood. Kathrin Belliveau is the first Executive Vice President and Chief Purpose Officer of the self-described "global play and entertainment company," where she is charged with bringing their purpose to life in ways that make the world a better place for children, fans, and families. In this episode, Kathrin talks about why it's critical for companies in all sectors to embrace sustainability and lead with purpose to drive growth, relevance and impact. From innovative packaging to building a purposeful culture, Kathrin explains the strategies Hasbro has used to be recognized as one of "the World's Most Ethical Companies" eleven years in a row.  Simon Mainwaring:  Simon Mainwaring is a brand futurist, keynote speaker, and bestselling author. He is best known as the author of We First: How Brands and Consumers Use Social Media to Build a Better World and Lead With We: The Business Revolution That Will Save Our Future; as the Founder and CEO of We First, an award-winning strategic consultancy that works with purpose-led companies to build their brand strategy, company culture, and impact storytelling; and as the author of the influential 'Purpose At Work' column in Forbes and host of the podcast, Lead With We.   Kathrin Belliveau: As Executive Vice President and Chief Purpose Officer, Kathrin Belliveau leads Hasbro's Global Purpose Organization. Her responsibilities include Global Government and Regulatory Affairs, Global Communications, Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) & ESG, Climate & Sustainability, Philanthropy & Social Impact, Human Rights, Ethical Sourcing, and Health & Safety. She is responsible for leading Hasbro's ESG strategy and for embedding purpose across the business to advance Hasbro's positive impact on the world. She reports to the CEO and is a member of the company's executive leadership team.   She was also instrumental in creating Hasbro's CSR function, leading the establishment of the company's CSR practice in 2011 and it's evolving ESG strategy to support the company's growth and transformation as a global play and entertainment company. Under her leadership, Hasbro has been recognized for its corporate citizenship, including being named, for the past ten consecutive years, at the top of the 100 Best Corporate Citizens list by CR Magazine and also for the tenth consecutive year as a World's Most Ethical Company® by Ethisphere Institute. Resources: Learn more about Bayer at https://www.bayer.com/en/us/bayer-united-states-of-america Connect with Kathrin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathrin-belliveau-97572491/ Visit leadwithwe.com to learn more about Simon's new book or search for "Lead With We" on Amazon, Google Books, or Barnes & Noble.

Infosys has been recognised as one of athe World's Most Ethical Companies for 2022, the second year in a row, by Ethisphere Institute, which works in the area of defining and advancing the standards of ethical business practices. A clarification on disallowing offset of loss against profit in crypto transactions in India has caused much consternation among startups, TechCrunch reports. Plus, ecommerce automation SaaS company CommerceIQ turns unicorn. Infosys has been recognised as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies for 2022, the second year in a row, by Ethisphere Institute, which works in the area of defining and advancing the standards of ethical business practices. It is also the only company from India, and one of four such honourees globally, in the software and services industry, the company said in a press release. In 2022, 136 honourees were recognised from 22 countries and across 45 industries. India's proposed taxation law of virtual digital assets won't permit individuals to offset the loss from one asset against the profit of another, the Ministry of Finance said on Monday, causing dismay among the country's crypto startups, TechCrunch reports. This move is “detrimental for India's crypto industry and the millions who have invested in this emerging asset class,” Ashish Singhal, co-founder and CEO of CoinSwitch, one of India's largest crypto exchanges, said in an email. CommerceIQ, which helps retailers automate various ecommerce processes, has raised $115 million in a funding round led by SoftBank Vision Fund 2, at a value of more than $1 billion, making it the 12th Indian startup unicorn of this year, Economic Times reports. Qualcomm has launched a Snapdragon Metaverse Fund, established to invest up to $100 million in developers and companies building unique, immersive XR experiences, as well as associated core augmented reality and related artificial intelligence technologies, the company said in a press release. nurture.farm, a digital platform for sustainable agriculture, has generated and forward-sold 20,000 carbon credits through its alternate wetting and drying and dry seeded rice project, the company said in a press release. Its benefits included 15-30 percent of water savings, according to the release. Snowflake, a data cloud provider, has launched a healthcare and life sciences data cloud to offer customers a single, integrated, and cross-cloud data platform that eliminates technical and institutional data silos. PhonePe, a payments platform provider that is part of Walmart's Flipkart unit, has acquired GigIndia, a network for freelancers, to help corporates and enterprises acquire more customers and scale up their distribution channels, the company said in a press release. Bizongo, a B2B trade enablement platform provider, has acquired Mumbai based IoT and location services provider Clean Slate Technologie. Bizongo aims to equip more than 100 Indian factories with its IoT powered cloud factory solution by 2023. PolygonLEAP 2021 Accelerator has announced its first cohort of 31 startups. It will support the 31 solutions, selected from over 270 applicants globally, in building their innovative decentralised ideas in the boot camp phase. Theme music courtesy Free Music & Sounds: https://soundcloud.com/freemusicandsounds

SUMMARY While Part 1 of this podcast targets trailblazing research and regulatory approaches to workplace mental health, Part 2 chronicles the evolution of organizational policies, practices, and programs at two very different and unique organizations. Join Quentin Steen (CLAC Labour Relations Representative) and Trever Amendt (AECOM Site Safety Lead, Energy Operations & Maintenance in Lacombe, Alberta) as they share their personal mental health stories and their groups' commitments to building cultures of compassion with strong leadership, workplace-wide peer support, regular training, and ongoing employee communication and engagement. They also touch on the impacts of stigma and the challenges and opportunities presented by COVID-19. TAKEAWAYS This podcast will help you understand: The evolution of workplace mental health policies, practices, and programs in both union (CLAC) and engineering (AECOM) environments Union approach focused on cooperation rather than confrontation Corporate culture that cultivates employees' social and emotional well-being The importance of authentic peer support throughout organizations Types of training needed to optimize workplace mental health Impacts of COVID on workplace mental health What's been learned from COVID that will guide future polices, practices, and programs Return-on-investment for businesses that do workplace health and safety right Types of stigma existing in various workplaces   SPONSORS WorkSafeBC is a provincial agency in British Columbia, Canada that promotes safe and healthy workplaces for more than 2.3 million workers. Serving more than 230,000 employers, WorkSafeBC's services include education, prevention, compensation and support for injured workers, and no-fault insurance to protect employers and workers. WorkSafeBC is committed to creating a province free from workplace injury or illness. By partnering with workers and employers, WorkSafeBC helps British Columbians come home from work safe every day. CLAC is the largest independent, multisector, national union in Canada, representing more 60,000 workers in almost every sector of the economy including construction, education, emergency services, healthcare, retail, service, transportation, manufacturing, and more. CLAC has 14 member centres in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC, along with 25 active, independent, affiliated locals. Based on values of respect, dignity, and fairness, CLAC is committed to building better lives, better workplaces, and better communities.  AECOM is a global engineering firm whose infrastructure services for public- and private-sector clients include transportation, water, energy, and environmental projects. Employing about 87,000 people, AECOM was ranked #1 in Engineering News-Record's ‘2020 Top 200 Environmental Firms,' and named one of Fortune magazine's ‘World's Most Admired Companies' for the sixth consecutive year. Transforming the ways it works through technology and digital platforms, AECOM leads the engineering world in environmental, social, and governance solutions… leading to the Ethisphere Institute naming it one of ‘2021 World's Most Ethical Companies.'   RESOURCES National Standard of Canada for Psychological Health and Safety in the Workplace and the resulting Case Studies Research Report Addressing the mental health effects of COVID-19 in the workplace: A guide for workers Managing the mental health effects of COVID-19 in the workplace: A guide for employers    Guarding Minds@Work   Antidepressant Skills@Work    Psychological Health and Safety: An Action Guide for Employers    Mental Health Commission of Canada    Canada's Workplace Mental Health    Canadian Mental Health Association    Government of Canada/Mental health in the workplace      Wellness Works Canada        Wellness Together Canada: Mental Health and Substance Use Support provides free online resources, tools, apps, and connections to trained volunteers and qualified mental health professionals.      Workplace Mental Health Playbook for Business Leaders (CAMH)     Workplace Mental Health Research     Deloitte research reveals significant return on investment for workplace mental health programs.   GUESTS  Quentin Steen Quentin Steen is a Labour Relations Representative with the CLAC labour union, who works out of the Kelowna Member Centre and specializes in the transportation, manufacturing, and healthcare sectors. He is also the CLAC Provincial Member Education Coordinator for BC and facilitates numerous workshops for various signatory companies and shop stewards working in BC. Being a certified Mental Health First Aid (MHFA) instructor for the Mental Health Commission of Canada, Quentin is passionate about delivering the MHFA course because of his experience with mental health issues, personally and professionally. Quentin's personal life's mission is to educate others about mental health issues and provide them with the tools/skills they need to recognize changes (possible signs) to the mental well-being in self and others, to help those who may be in a mental heath crisis by offering comfort and support, and to reduce the stigma that surrounds mental health in our workplaces and society.  Phone: 250-868-9111 Email: qsteen@clac.ca Website: www.clac.ca Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/clacunion Twitter: https://twitter.com/clacunion Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/quentin-steen-23249326/ Trever Amendt Trever Amendt has been the Site Safety Lead for AECOM at the NOVA Joffre Plant in Lacombe, Alberta, Canada for five years. AECOM is the capital projects group on site and completes all project-based work, including pipefitting, electrical, iron work, insulation and scaffolding. AECOM made mental health its number one priority in 2020, and it became an even greater priority when COVID-19 hit in March of last year. To that end, Trever has an open door on site and is always ready to listen to what someone is going through to support them and build trust. The Mental Health First Aid course he took from CLAC in 2019, opened Trever's eyes and gave him a new desire to support and be there to help people when it comes to their mental health. Trever has a real passion for organizations that support people with addictions: the Dream Center in Calgary and Teen Challenge in Allan, Saskatchewan. Red Deer, Alberta is just raising money to redesign a building downtown to start a Dream Center. These centers address the physical, mental, and spiritual components of addiction.  Phone: 780-983-4966 Email: trever.amendt@aecom.com Website: www.aecom.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AecomTechnologyCorporation Twitter: https://twitter.com/aecom   HOST Jo de Vries is a community education and engagement specialist with 30 years of experience helping local governments in British Columbia connect with their citizens about important sustainability issues. In 2006, she established the Fresh Outlook Foundation (FOF) to “inspire community conversations for sustainable change.” FOF's highly acclaimed events include Building SustainABLE Communities conferences, Reel Change SustainAbility Film Fest, Eco-Blast Kids' Camps, CommUnity Innovation Lab, Breakfast of Champions, and Women 4 SustainAbility. FOF's newest ventures are the HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Summit and HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Podcast. Website: Fresh Outlook Foundation Phone: 250-300-8797   PLAY IT FORWARD The move toward optimal workplace mental health becomes possible as more people learn about the challenges, successes, and opportunities. To that end, please share this podcast with anyone who has an interest or stake in the future of workplace mental health and wellness. FOLLOW US For more information about the Fresh Outlook Foundation (FOF) and our programs and events, visit our website, sign up for our newsletter, and like us on Facebook and Twitter.   HELP US As a charity, FOF relies on support from grants, sponsors, and donors to continue its valuable work. If you benefited from the podcast, please help fund future episodes by making a one-time or monthly donation. Quentin Steen, Trever Amendt Interview Transcript You can download a pdf of the transcript here. The entire transcript is also found below: INTRO  0:10 Welcome to the HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Podcast. Join our host Jo de Vries with the Fresh Outlook Foundation as she combines science with storytelling to explore a variety of mental health issues with people from all walks of life. Stay tuned! JO  0:32 Hey, Jo here. Welcome to part two of our podcast on workplace mental health, where we'll build on what we learned in Part 1 about trailblazing research and regulatory approaches. This time around, we'll explore groundbreaking union and business solutions thanks to our co sponsors WorkSafe BC, CLAC, and AECOM. You'll meet Quentin Steen, Labor Relations Representative at CLAC, a Canadian labor union, and Trevor Amendt, Site Safety Lead for AECOM, Energy Operations & Maintenance at the Joffre chemical plant in Lacombe, Alberta. First, let's meet Quentin from CLAC, which represents more than 60,000 workers in almost every sector of the Canadian economy. Based on values of respect, dignity, and fairness, CLAC aims to build better lives, better workplaces, and better communities. The union also helps members reach their full potential by finding their own versions of everyday greatness. Hi, Quentin... thanks for joining us. QUENTIN  1:41 Thank you so much for the invite. It's my pleasure, Jo. JO  1:45 Can you give us an overview of CLAC's approach to mental wellness, and how that differs from that of other labor unions?  QUENTIN  1:56 I'm sure most of the unions out there are tracking some of the similar directions, but CLAC has been a labor union who's pretty proud of their progressive labor relations model, like a collaborative approach between the employer, employee, and the union. It's built on cooperative versus confrontational encounters... we've always believed that it's the most effective model when dealing with workplace issues. And among some of these issues, for sure, is the physical and mental safety and well-being of workers in the workplace. And it all sort of started with us in terms of the weight of this, about three-and-a-half or four years ago. It became a national mandate for the mental health of our CLAC staff and our shop stewards, where we made a huge investment into it. So, this mandate included things like working with our signatory companies in their management to address mental health safety of their employees at the workplace. In CLAC, we have a My Health & Wellness department where you can go to our CLAC website where our members can get the knowledge and tools they need to take charge of their own health and well-being by adopting good habits and a healthy lifestyle, and they can live a better and perhaps a longer life. This site is very interactive, and it's got like several health and wellness tools... like mental health is a specific area. Substance-use case managers are part of that, to financial wellness, workplace wellness. We also have EFAP programs like a lot of companies do, where we have an Employment and Family Assistance Program... that's what it stands for... where we have resources that are available to our members and their families to reach out for free. And they receive confidential help. If they or their loved ones are struggling, then we encourage them not to hesitate on that. We also have a quarterly magazine called The Guide that includes mental health articles and resources for our members and is really ramped up since the pandemic outbreak. Those are sort of our approach the some of the things that are kind of in our toolboxes that we provide for our members and how our organization looks at it. We're very aggressive with it. We think it's really important. We easily put it on par with the physical safety and wellness and well-being of employees at the workplace. Absolutely, one hundred percent. JO  4:14 Quentin... you're a labour relations representative with CLAC. Tell us about the mental health-related work you do specifically. QUENTIN  4:23 I've had a recent change in my role from not just rep but where I do that 50% of my role, but also the other 50% is member education coordinator for BC. Part of my role as the coordinator, and has actually been as a rep for the last three years, is providing Mental Health First Aid courses to our signatory companies, to our staff, and to our stewards. And I've done I think, in the last few years about 23 or 24 in total, and these Mental Health First Aid courses are designed by the Mental Health Commission of Canada, and basic courses are about 12 hours. So over two days, generally speaking, and then a blended virtual course that came online as of the pandemic, that's about eight hours. And I deliver these courses throughout BC and Alberta. Part of my role, too, in the last year-and-a-half has been creating Mental Health Moments. And that started of course with the onset of the pandemic, when I was tasked to write Mental Health Moments that were published on a weekly basis to our membership and staff about 60,000 people plus, and now they're published monthly. And they hit a variety of different subjects. The reason I started writing them is because I realized at the beginning of the pandemic, that once the virus comes and goes, or it's no longer on our minds because we've had these vaccinations, and herd [immunity], really what we're left with is really going to be the damage that's caused to our mental health. And so, I started seeing it in our representatives and I asked our national office if I could begin to write some articles for our reps, and they took that and decided it needs to be published to the rest of our membership. And we've gotten a lot of responses from a lot of people sharing their stories. And so that's been very, very great part of my journey in this last year-and-a-half in my role. JO  6:14 And I think in this difficult time, people are just craving that kind of information. QUENTIN  6:20 Oh, absolutely. The reality is, what I've seen anyways, from my perspective, the pandemic did a few things. And I would kind of categorize that impact on three different types of or kinds of experiences out there. The first being someone who has never had mental health-related issues, and they might be anxious, and they might worry from time to time, but never a diagnosable thing. And then all of a sudden, three weeks, four weeks, four months into it, they're now sitting across from a therapist or an EFAP program, and they're talking about an anxiety disorder. And then there's other people that have had them lying in the weeds, like myself for years, but I just kept myself busy, or didn't pay attention to it, or sort of deflected it, or pretended it wasn't there. And with the pandemic, I mean, it just bubbled to the surface for so many people. And then the third category of people, like where I'm at right now, where I have two diagnosable mental illnesses that I've lived with for most of my life. They've just been amplified... I've had to really dig down and really learn how to manage them in the middle of this pandemic, much differently than maybe prior to the pandemic. It is affecting people. JO  7:32 Thank you for being so vulnerable about that. Can you share your story? QUENTIN  7:37 Absolutely love to. I'm 51 years old. And my personal journey with mental health issues goes way, way back. I just didn't realize how far back the rabbit hole really went. But like I said, one of my diagnosable illnesses is clinical depression. I had it from early childhood into adulthood. It was seasonal at first... September was the start of new school year or work year, or January... the start rebooting of that. So, it would come like that, and it was kind of like this cloud that would come over me. And then it started to develop in a year-round in about 2008. It was nonstop, and some weeks were worse than others. Some of the darkest times I battled with suicidal ideations. In fact, those go back to grade four, where I first tried to take my life by suicide. And fortunately, I'm still here. In 2012 it got really bad for me, and those ideations came back again, and I had to pull over to the side of road, while I was traveling between two different cities, and call for help. I didn't realize that I had a clinical depression, until actually I took our Mental Health First Aid course, about five years ago, or four years ago. The irony of this all is I'm married to a former therapist, and three of my friends out of the top four are therapists. And so, they've known this for a long, long time. But like they said to me, you know, you weren't ready to hear it. And so when you're not ready to hear you just shut everything down. So that was kind of ironic the way it came about. I also have an anxiety disorder that I believe just comes from my being an infant... I was adopted... and at an early age I spent my first number of months going between wet nurse to wet nurse. And one particular time I was dropped on my head on the cement sidewalk, and that just changed my brain, physiologically, from that day forward. I didn't know that was an issue, until like I said, about 15 years ago when I was in therapy, and it was brought up as something that that's actually a big impact. And then into early childhood, my attachment issues that come from the adoption, like abandonment, emotional depravations, where the need to feel loved, significant, valued, like us all. But that just added to the anxiety part of it. In the early school years, I was bullied horribly physically because I was adopted. We're from a low-end family, and I was really the runt of the school. And emotionally, for sure, the bullying continued where, you know, I was always picked last or assigned to a group, which is even worse, because no one would pick you. And then it increased into high school where I was routinely held down by a group of guys that were popular, and jocks, and in woodwork shop, for at least by Grade 10 year anyways, and pinned to a table at some point during the class and they poured linseed oil down my throat until I threw up. Then I was sent to the principal's office because I was the troublemaker. And then it just continued on like that throughout high school and I even had a cancer scare. And so, I developed a phobia of death, which added to my anxiety. And then to my adult years was just even harder, in the sense that I made these vows that I would never, ever get rejected or bullied again, which, if you look at life, those are ridiculous, right? Because it happens every time we turn around. But those vows actually turned into my curses, and my default setting... my racket as a human being, I like to call it... is to get big, loud, critical, and overwhelm people. You know, in the midst of that, I developed panic attacks, too. And they started back in 1999. And I occasionally still have them. Last one happened to me was in Costco. And all that to say, though those are my issues, I've learned how to manage them much more effectively now that I know what they are, and how I function inside of them, and how I function with them. I've had a lot of therapy in the last number of years, Cognitive Behavior Therapy, to look at my attachment issues, my anxiety and panic attacks, and ways to deal with that neurofeedback, which is a recalibrating of your brain, Alpha-Stim, which was a big step in adding to my Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I've taken a lot of education and emotional intelligence in why I do the things I do. And then type theory, understanding my personality type. There's been this very robust sort of knowledge that I've gained once I understood what was in front of me. That's kind of my story. I don't think they'll ever go away... I don't expect them to. But that's not the issue. For me, the issue is, how do I function with them? They're part of my life, and they are who they are, and I am who I am. So, how do I learn how to manage them? That really is the issue, not hoping and wishing they would go away, because that's probably not going to help. JO  12:37 Thank you so much for sharing so many very personal experiences. Quentin. One of the things I'm learning through this podcast is just how resilient people can be. And those stories of resilience, and your particular story of resilience, are not only so informative, but inspiring. And people like yourself, they tend to take what they've learned about themselves, and then move that into an area where they can help other people who have similar challenges. I'd like to know, how has your personal experience helped you better understand and serve CLAC members who are struggling? QUENTIN  13:24 That's a great question. Well, let me start with this. One in five Canadians live with a mental health issue... and that figure only actually includes people seeking treatment. And you know what Joanne, I would say the last three years in my classes, it's more like one in three… it's not one in five, I think it's more like one in three. But that's just from what I've seen. And almost 50% of people will develop a mental health illness in their lifetime. Psychological health problems and the illnesses are the number one cause of disability in Canada, according to the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety in 2016 survey. The Mental Health Commission of Canada, as well as the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety, report that one in five workers experience fatigue, sleeping problems, headaches, and anxiety, and 23% of workers experienced physical health problems caused by stress, anxiety, or major depression, and 20% of all sick leaves are related to mental health. So, nationally, in Canada, an estimated 35 million workdays are lost to mental health conditions amongst our 10 million plus workers. That's astonishing. So, it's not fake. It's real. JO  14:34 Well, not only that, but also the impact on our economy. They say that the impacts of mental health on our economy are at least $55 billion a year. And by the year 2030, or 40, I believe, they expect it to be more than $300 billion a year. QUENTIN  14:55 Yeah... so it's not going away. So, because it's not going away, then my next thing is… it's about promotion. And what I like to say in my discourse with people, whether it's the workplace or wherever else... and what I actually alluded to earlier.... that it's entirely possible to be diagnosed with a serious illness or disorder, and then learn to live with your life, coping well with it and have a positive mental health about it. So, my mental health issues, like I said, might never go away, but it's how I learn to manage them that can make all the difference in terms of a person's resilience. JO  15:26 How has your personal experience helped you serve your members better? QUENTIN  15:32 I just teach them what I know. The reality is that it's a part of my personal mission in life to educate others of the prominence and importance of addressing mental health issues, not just in our society, but in our workplaces... in providing them with the skills and tools necessary in the way that I can, because I got to stay in my lane. I'm not a professional therapist, or a doctor, but I have a lane. And my lane is to be able to help our workers in our workplaces recognize the changes, or possible signs, of the decline of mental health, well-being in their selves first, and then maybe others around them. And then to assist those who might be in a mental health crisis by offering the proper comfort and support. And that's a key. And then probably one of the biggest things outside of that... and connected to this, and sort of the driver of it... is helping reduce the stigma that surrounds mental health in our society and workplaces. And it's there, and it's big. JO  16:29 Thanks, Quentin... we'll dig deeper into that a little later, but now let's bring Trevor from AECOM into the conversation. AECOM is an award-winning infrastructure consulting firm of planners, designers, engineers, consultants, and construction managers. Its Energy Operations & Maintenance Division provides best-in-class maintenance, turnarounds, construction, and fabrication services to North American oil, gas, and chemical industries. Hello, Trevor, and thanks so much for being here. TREVER  17:04 Thanks a lot, Jo. I'm very excited to be part of this conversation with you and with Quentin. Just a side note... Quentin has become probably one of my biggest mentors in the last year-and-a-half. His attitude towards mental health and the way he opens up people is just huge for me. So, thanks again. JO  17:20 You are a site safety lead for AECOM, which is an international engineering firm... which I mentioned earlier. Can you tell us a little bit about your work?  TREVER  17:32 I'm a safety professional here at Joffre NOVA Chemicals. We're about half-an-hour from Lacombe, [Alberta]. We deal with a lot of different trades out here... we've got pipe fitters, iron workers, electricians. And then we have a couple of CLAC groups with our insulators and scaffolders. We have a multiple trade group that does a lot of projects on site, deals with a lot of different, stressful environments... a lot of stuff that can go wrong, day to day. People is a key to our industry. Having people fit for duty, making sure that they're healthy, when it comes to the physical and mental state of their body and their mind, is so important to us. It's really changed I think, too, in the last couple of years of how we support people. We look at them in a different way. And I really put a lot of the onus onto the Mental Health First Aid course that we started two years ago that really changed the way we look at [being] fit for duty. JO  18:22 I understand that AECOM is zealous in its approach to optimizing mental health for its 47,000 workers around the world. What does that look like from your perspective, as the site safety lead in Lacombe? TREVER  18:39 Whatever safety I can give to somebody... when it's procedures, policies, site safety rules... if they're not fit for duty, and they're not healthy to come in, we can achieve that. We just had a milestone last week Wednesday, we've done a full year without any incidents, no injuries, no first aids. And through a time of COVID, it's a huge announcement... it's exciting to have that happen on our site. We've had so much diversity, so much isolation, where people come to work, go home, go to grocery store, go to the mall... there's not much left to do outside of that. We've really tried hard to make sure that people still feel that they're getting that support. Digging deeper… when you see someone who looks off, or just isn't firing on all cylinders, so to speak, that's such an important thing that we don't just push them off or put them in a corner. I like to talk to individuals and find out how they're made inside, and what they like and dislike... how they're wired. Every individual is created in a special unique way, and that's the message I give in every orientation. So, of course the safety guy sits there and 90% of people think the safety guy is just going to pump safety and policies and procedures. But the first interaction I get with every worker... if it's a subcontractor or it's an AECOM person on site... is just that individuality of each person, so we understand that we build that relationship right from the ground level... so they feel that respect built right away, they feel that connection built right away. So, you start that relationship. My safety director, Dale Hartery, he always talks about hand on shoulder... that's one of his favorite lines. That's something I really try to show to people when they come in, it's very clear in our company to see that right from our VP, down to all our corporate, our site managers, and all our safety that work in the service industry. One of the biggest things we use is our human performance tools, that gives them the tools to see obvious things that can cause things to go better, to help them slow down. It gives them triggers to do what's right and not be rushing, not be causing something to cause an accident or an incident on site. We give them the tools that we put in front of them, the traps too, that could cause things to go wrong. So, we make it very clear, you know what, these are common things, stuff that cause problem, but it gives them that opportunity to see what's right. And then of course, we have all the different organizations in our company, through HR, through Morneau Shepell, through the counseling groups, that we can help them to treat anything that's going on. It's not just the physical things that go wrong. It's more the internal, the mental stuff, the mental health issues that people have, that now we can put them into the right place to get that help and get treatment. And I like what Quentin said earlier, a lot of things that we deal with in life, if it's a mental health issue, they don't go away. We need to treat them and figure out a way to manage them. And I think AECOM is getting way better at managing this part of mental health and being able to deal with it. JO  21:36 That's amazing. Trevor, you too have a personal story with mental health challenges. Can you share your story? TREVER  21:43 AbsoluteIy. Mental health challenges, feel like it's part of who you are. It's part of your fiber of your being. And sometimes it's so embedded, you don't know what it is. I grew up on a mixed farm Saskatchewan, had seven siblings, and we all had a part to play on the farm. When I was about 11 years old, my brother Emile, who was 18, passed away from cystic fibrosis. He was born with this disease, and it goes after your digestive and you're breathing. When he passed away, I had to grow up in a big hurry, and I was by no means ready for it at that time. And now I had to take over responsibility for the farm, I was the next person up to do the work and didn't really understand why. Wasn't a lot explained to me why I needed to step up. My dad wasn't very understanding with this specific issue and didn't have time for me to make mistakes along the way. After about five years of trying to figure out where I belonged, I ended up quitting school and moving out... basically running away. We never talked about things at home when it came to how we were feeling or going through. Usually there was a lot of hollering with teaching... very physical aspects to life. There was no point to make mistakes, I guess. When you made mistakes that wasn't looked on as a learning experience. When I can look back on things now, my mental health, my own issues were never dealt with. It was embedded so deep inside me that I never got a chance to talk to anybody about it, And I thought that was a dark part of my life that I didn't dare bring up. My opinion of mental health at that time was someone who was born with the physical disorder. You talk about stigma! To me, mental health wasn't something that you could even have in everyday life. It wasn't something you could deal with. And, in my opinion, it couldn't be corrected or dealt with. This was a huge stigma. I went to drinking and smoking fairly heavy, and at 14 basically became an alcoholic. I didn't know how else to deal with what was going on inside, didn't feel like it was going good enough for my own family, and really struggled for the next seven to eight years with where I belonged and what I should be doing. Feeling like I wasn't good enough really drove me to always try and be the best at anything I tried to accomplish, and not in a good way. I would go on to different jobs and different work jobs, and if I would learn a task, or a school, I would drive until I could be better than anybody on that site. Failure, when I did make a mistake, wasn't a learning experience. So, it basically crushed me. So went from getting into drinking and heavy smoking, into basically working every second of my life. I felt the more I could work, the better I would feel and wouldn't have to deal with those internal mental health embedded hurts and hang-ups which were just always there gnawing at me. I had a son at the age of 19. We were both in the party scene and didn't want to grow up and take care of responsibility. We got married before the baby was born and I ended up working away, of course...  workaholic... work before anything else, and she got into an affair and left me basically a year after the baby was a year old. After a couple of years of back and forth with our son trying to figure out where we could be in life... again, I was working like crazy because I thought that was the way to fix everything. I met a great young lady who had her life together. She was beautiful and really smart young lady who was going to college at the time, taking care of her two young boys. The moment we went on a blind date, set up by one of our cousins, I stopped smoking and drinking all the same night... so I got rid of something that was really causing a problem. This felt like the right thing to do. A year later we were married. As soon as we started out, my mom started to dictate how we lived and especially picked on my new wife, Cindy... on how she was doing everything completely wrong. My old hurts and hang-ups kicked in, and I went straight back into a workaholic... the stress of life knocked me down again. And I hadn't figured out a way to deal with my own mental health, and didn't dare talk to Cindy about it because, again, this was something that I thought you didn't dare bring out... you didn't talk about. And the stigma to me was, this has no value, I've got to somehow bury that and move on. Cindy and I now have been married for 24 years, and it's because of her love and patience and perseverance that have taken us this far. And I have to say very clearly, a year-and-a-half ago, when I went through this Mental Health {First Aid] course, there was so many things that opened my eyes to my own mental health issues that I dealt with. And Cindy and I... she's had an opportunity to see a part of me 23 years after we were married that she'd never seen before. The vulnerability that I've been able to bring to her has changed our marriage. And by no means is it 100%... there's still lots it has to be dealt with, but it's amazing. And what I've gone through in my life, I turned 50 this year, so I'm not quite caught up to Quentin yet, but passion for mental health and people, who I rub shoulders with every day, so not just at work... works very important... but anywhere I go. So, through COVID a big thing I always tried to do if I was out shopping, I keep my eyes up and I try to get eye contact. And if you just say, "Hello, how's it going?" You could just feel that isolation and the hurts of people. We couldn't rub shoulders. We can't hug anymore. We can't shake hands. But man, whatever I could do to show people that you care, and the expressions and the excitement, sometimes in people's voice to get that interaction was just amazing. JO  26:49 You both exemplify the power of vulnerability with the stories that you've shared. Quentin, first, when you're dealing with people in your union who are struggling with mental health challenges, do you share your story? And if so, how does that help those people? QUENTIN  27:09 It's funny that you should say that because when I first started mental health courses, teaching them, I was with a very good friend and colleague at the time, Dave Phillips, who is a family therapist for 30 years. My wife actually worked underneath him in Abbotsford. I remember getting into the weeds of it the very first time and feeling very nervous, because the initial platform was to our entire staff. And I'm about to open my life up in front of my colleagues, which means... and again, attached to stigma... what are they going to think? Here's a guy who's like completely unstable, and should we actually think about promoting him? Or should keep an eye on him? Or maybe we should send someone to visit all these things that kind of going through my brain. And so, the very first course I did, after we were debriefing, Dave just said to me, "Quentin, you got to jump in with both feet, man." I said, "Dave, you know my story, we're very good friends, and I'm not comfortable. What will people think?" He's like, "What have you got to lose? We're not just talking about you, we're talking about other people, and they can learn from your narrative." Your narrative is nothing to run from. It's everything for you to embrace and walk into. I do that... I am not afraid of speaking my story. I'm not afraid of saying I have clinical depression...that I have anxiety disorders... that I get panic attacks every so often. And sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind. Some days are better than others. Not every day is filled with rainbows and ponies. For me, it becomes very vital that the first sort of entry into mental health is me, at least telling my story when I'm given the opportunity to. And so, every class, I start with my story, and then I turn it over and say, "Why are you here?" Jo, you would not believe the reaction that people have, once you step into that arena and say it's okay to tell me and to tell us, and for you to vocalize who you really are, and where you're really at. And it's amazing. There are people in there that in my 23 classes across the last number of years who have said to me, "I'm going to say something I've never said... I have bipolar." Or, "I live with schizophrenia." That's the first words out of their mouth. I'm telling you right now, Jo, there was a time, and not too long ago, where that was never your entering comment. And so, at the workplace, do the same thing... exactly what Trevor does. I try to maintain eye contact, and I know I can feel it when something's off. I don't necessarily ask a lot of questions, but I do take the opportunity to talk about, "Man looks like you guys got a pretty difficult job here. That must be really wearing on the brain. I know what it would do for me." I think those type of things, just to recognize what they're experiencing and what they're feeling. For me, it's an essential critical step. If you don't have that step, if I'm not sharing my story, my narrative... and my narrative doesn't have to work for everyone, it's not about everyone, it's about me.... but when I do that, it changes the environment. It lightens the air, and it allows people the permission to say, "You know what, things aren't really great... haven't been for a while. Here's what I'm dealing with." JO  30:27 What it does is it really engages people emotionally. And that's where things really start to happen. A personal example of mine is, when I was initially fundraising for the HEADS UP program, I would talk to people about what the program was and what our objectives were, and what our plans were. But when I shared my story of chronic anxiety... and like you, I have an anxiety disorder... when I share that story, people would lean into me. I could see their body language change and their interest in what I was talking about, just increase exponentially. I agree that that vulnerability is so critical. Trevor, how have you found the use of vulnerability to either help or hinder your work? TREVER  31:23 So, first off, when I did this course with Quentin, and I've been in safety now for seven years, but we did this course a year-and-a-half ago, we sat down at the course, I'll be very honest, I was pretty nervous. I was a little stressed about where's this was going to go. I've never gone through that before. Like Quentin said, he tells a story right from the beginning. It's like it knocks your socks right off. And everybody in the room, their eyes are wide open, and they want to speak, it just opens the room. He's not asking them to speak, he's not telling them to speak. People want to tell him their story and open up.  The vulnerability he gives to people… it's such a huge reaction. And I've been involved now with two of his courses, we did that one and three of us from our site went. And then we had a full course here on site with a very mixed group. And it's a true story. Like he says, it's real life. This is real, this isn't something made up. And people, just they want to tell their story. I had so many texts and phone calls that da, ye did it here on site, they couldn't believe that this is actually something that was happening. It opened up such a new part to our site that we've never had before. And it's still there. After COVID, we've had trouble getting training back, but it's slowly coming again. But for me, on a daily basis, this year not as much because we're a lot slower. But in 2019, we had 200 people on site, and almost on a daily basis people would come down and sit in my office, and some would be in tears when they show up... some would be having stresses going on. They would say, "You know what... this is what's going on in my life... this is what's happening at home... this is what's happened to me... my wife isn't doing good... my wife got cancer... I had a family member pass away." And they understand that because I've opened up with my story, what's going on in my life, that they can come to me and say, "Hey, this is what's going on." And they feel like I'm going to be able to either direct them, or just listen to what they have to say. And it completes them for that day. And either I give them the right that they should go home, or they should take a break. It's just that conversation. I don't tell them it's okay. But they have that feeling that now I've been able to open up. And it's part of a treatment that they feel good about, hey, somebody listened. I'm by no means a counselor. But that feeling they get when they leave, it is really good. JO  33:35 They feel they're not alone. And I think that's huge. And particularly during the time of COVID when people are feeling so isolated, people are feeling lonely. That sharing of stories and emotions, and solutions, and all of that great stuff becomes an antidote for isolation and loneliness. And people just realize that they're not alone. TREVER  34:04 I know when COVID hit last year, we had a quite a big group on site. And, of course, we had the COVID payments come from the government, and it was quite a disaster to start off. And I became an in-between person working with HR and payroll, trying to get these ROEs done and trying to get people paid. And some of them it took sometimes a month to almost a month-and-a-half to get there first cheque. And the stress that was caused by that was something we haven't seen for a long time because it happened so quick. The government wasn't ready. And there was a lot of dotted I's and crossed T's that weren't done. So, it took a long time to get people the right help they needed, just financially. So, to be part of that really helped to build a lot more relationships and build a lot more respect for people to be part of that. Again, it had to do with financial, but sometimes they'd be on the phone for 45 minutes just talking to somebody, just taking the time to listen and see what I could to just support that person, and it built again relationships. To me, really, relationship is so important with any mental health issues people are having, because then they feel comfortable to be vulnerable. It's just such a big key. QUENTIN  35:08 Not only that, but going, hey, you know what, no matter what the issue is, not only are there resources, but I can have a preferred future. I don't have to live under the weight of this. I can learn it is manageable. And for some disorders, some mental health issues are harder than others, you can live with them. And there's many examples out there of normal people living with significant issues, learning to manage them, and having good mental health, even though they have a significant mental health issue. JO  35:40 That's just such a good point, Quentin. And I know that, Trevor, you mentioned earlier about how every one of us is unique. And that's why every one of us needs to have a very special management plan. And for me, that includes medication, getting good sleep, good nutrition, regular exercise, support from my family, and my friends. As this unfolds in front of you, you will learn what those management strategies are for yourself. QUENTIN  35:56 And some work better for others. For me, I check all those boxes off too, Jo, maybe in different ways, but those are the boxes that I use as well. What's comforting is to know that there are resources, and that there is a way through these weeds, and that's a God send. When somebody in front of me not only feels comfortable telling me their story about issues they're dealing with, but also how they're dealing with it, that goes a long ways. TREVER  36:43 I understand that there's treatment, I think when that's the key. When you bring on the course, yes, now they have a mental health issue that they've been dealing with their whole life, or it's just come to light, like you said. Now it's out there, but all of a sudden, there's a way to treat this that they never knew was possible before. It's not just being open and vulnerable, but going through whatever avenue we can give them to get that treatment and living a normal life, still having that mental health issue. We talked about Speak Up when it came to mental health, quite a few years ago, and it was so short lived, that there wasn't really any help for it that we could see. And now, with this Mental Health First Aid course that we do, that you've been running for the last year-and-a-half, the treatment is there. We're treating this Mental Health First Aid course just like first aid when it comes to physical injury or when you're born with something that's physical. Stigma, we talk about. We take that away now and say, "You know what, it's no different than going to the doctor when you have cancer, or you've got anything that you have to deal with through life." At certain ages, as men, we've got to go ahead and get tested to make sure we don't have cancer for colon, all these different wonderful fun things we get done. But that's part of life on the physical side. Now we show up and say, "Hey, mental health is the same way. We've got to treat it just like physical illness or injury." And we can live life healthy, dealing with and treating our mental health. And I think that's something when we did these courses, people came out of it, looking at it saying, "Wait a minute, this isn't just some dark thing that we have to hide and put in the past. It's something we need to bring out and talk to people about to help them." But then we can treat this because it's a condition. It's real. It's a fibre of our being. We are born this way, or something pushed us that way. But it's part of our life. I think that's the exciting part of bringing mental health out the open is the treatment side of it. Because now we can help people. And because they have this mental health issue doesn't mean they can't live a healthy life, a good life, and be involved and do all the normal things that everybody else is doing, because we can take care of that. I'm so excited about the learnings I have for mental health. QUENTIN  38:42 There's no discrimination with mental health. It doesn't care who you are. It doesn't care how your status... doesn't care about your sexuality. It doesn't care about your worldview. It doesn't care about your ethnicity. It doesn't care about your social or economical background. It doesn't care, your gender, your religion, it really doesn't. There's no discriminatory pieces to this. It goes after everyone. It's a predator. It's a predator, though, that we not only know more about than ever before, but we're naming it more than we ever have. And we're calling it out. And we're saying, "Enough is enough. You've wreaked havoc long enough. And this is where I draw the line." And we can help people draw the line and go, "That's it." It's like Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, when he's being chased by the fire demon, and he's across this bridge and he slams down his staff and he says, "You shall not pass." That's the picture of a resilient person who understands the issues, who has the resources and support and goes, "That's it. You have a corner… you stay in that room. That's all I'm giving you. You do not have access to the rest of my life, the way that you have in the past. I am the one, you are not." If we can deliver that, however it is that we do, not only will our workplaces transform, but our families, our relationships, our community, and most of all, with ourself... empathy for self, love for self, compassion for self. When we make those things available to us, even with significant mental health issues... that it's not a character defect, that it's not a problem with whatever it is with me, that there's nothing wrong with me... but when I can actually give myself the permission to feel those things and to accept those things, that is then much easier to give out.  JO  40:39 Wonderful input, thank you. I'd just like to step back for a minute. Quentin, in the union environment, how has people's interest in, and response to, mental health challenges changed over the years you've been doing this work? QUENTIN  40:57 Trevor and AECOM is a classic example. It's the acknowledgement that there's been this increased level of acceptance that mental health issues are real and common, and they're here to stay. And then it's a subject that's influenced lawmakers, HR departments, policies, lunchrooms. It's not as demonized as it used to be, the ones we shall not speak of, that's gone. That kind of mentality is making a quick exit, and it's increased the resources around us to assist people. Those are probably the top markers. JO  41:33 You both mentioned stigma... and you really can't talk about mental health without discussing stigma. So, Quentin, I'm really interested to know how stigma manifests in your members' work environments. Nowadays, I know that great progress is being made, but what are you noticing that still has to be dealt with? QUENTIN  41:57 Let me back it up for a second and just set this as the foundation. The Mental Health Commission of Canada and the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety report that, nationally, an estimated, like I said...  35, and I refer to this early because it's really important... 35 million workdays are lost to mental health conditions amongst our 10 million plus workers. So, it's an estimated cost to Canadian employers of $51 billion [annually]. And like you said, Jo, it's going to just catapult after that. But this is the cost of direct services and loss of productivity. So, that's the stage it's on. What are the manifestations? Here's the ones that are most prominent, from my experience of what I've seen, is that there's this sort of denial and apathy... that, "I don't have an issue. It's not that big. Like, for years I didn't know I actually had an issue, or issues." I think language, there's stigmatizing words and ideas and statements and stereotypes and categorizations and interactions based on ignorance and insensitivity. Those are the two things... either you know, and don't care, or you don't know, at all. Not just language, but I just think of fear in general, that we fear what we don't know or what we don't understand.... ones we do not speak of. I think there's fear of repercussions. Actually, the Conference Board of Canada said that 65% of Canadian workers in the survey said they would not disclose a mental health problem to their employer for fear of repercussions, which could look like job loss or lack of promotion, or keeping an eye on somebody, you know, that little extra because you just in case they snap, or discrimination. A Health Canada survey said that 54% of people reported facing discrimination for their mental problems in the workplace. This is all workplace related. There's embarrassment and shame. [In the] Health Canada survey, 54% of respondents who met the criteria of anxiety-related disorders or mood-related disorders, or substance dependence, felt embarrassed about their mental health problems. And then there's a kind of dismissal. I found this astonishing when I came across this, but according to Benefits Canada, there's a survey that was done based on malingering rates in Canada's workplaces, which means you're faking it or exaggerating your issue, your workplace-related health issue. So, the national board for psychological safety in the workplace, they approximate that the malingering rate in Canada workplaces is about 15%, which means, Jo and Trevor, that 85% of the people that are expressing health-related or mental health-related issues are in fact not faking it. It's real. That's significant. But stigma goes, "There's Johnny again, got to pull the slack because he's got an anxiety disorder. Really, what it's code for is he just wants more time off." JO  44:53 So, before we go into how we're going to actually tackle these stigma-related issues, I just want to chime in with you, Trevor, about stigma within the energy industry. And I may be assuming too much, but it would seem to me that that's likely a male-dominated industry. And men in particular, have a hard time expressing their feelings. And perhaps there's the macho thing going on. Can you tell us about that? TREVER  45:28 Absolutely. I think that's a key thing. In oil and gas, especially in construction, it is still mainly men dominated. It's changed a lot in the last couple of years... you see a lot more women in this culture, in this industry... but it is still a lot of men. And I think, as men, we don't want to talk about this stuff. And we really single people out, we build even on a whole crew. You'll go into the lunchroom. and, you know, these guys work together, and all of a sudden Johnny's sitting over there, he's by himself, and yet he's a good worker out there. But there's something different about him that everybody has pushed him out. Or he does have anxiety issues, or things like that, that are slowing him down and he can't keep up with a group. And you see those guys singled out. And it's so important that when that happens for me, especially when I've been in safety, because I have this opportunity now to do that. Those are the people that I warm up to... those are the people that I want to find out their story. I don't want to use that to beat up the other crew. But I want to find out how I can start to deal with this, make it more open. So, everybody sees, you know what, there's nothing wrong with this person. They've got something they're dealing with, but you guys have to accept them for who they are. QUENTIN  46:35 It's really been helped out in the workplace... guys like Trevor and their companies and HR departments and management. There's lots of government legislation out there that helped minimize it in the sense that there's laws that govern the physical safety of the workplace. Those same laws also govern the mental health safety of each worker in their respective workplaces. Some of that stuff comes with other fines, or it could even include jail time. It's serious. We're not just making this up. There's laws that are helping us work through this issue. And like Trevor said, the idea that AECOM is actually celebrating it, normalizing it as a way that can help minimize stigma. Stigma is never going to go away, but the onslaught of further education continues to say, "Here's what's really going on. You break the ice behind here and this is the thing." Part of education for some employers also includes discipline, for those people that continue to be offenders by using these kinds of silos and stigmatizing phrases and sort of nasty behavior. There's discipline in the workplace for that, which is also governed by legislation, that a lot of contracts have 'respect in the workplace' articles, and what that looks like. And if you don't toe the line, this is what you can expect. So, all those things, I think, do help minimize stigma. But like I said, with mental health issues, I don't think stigma will ever go away. We can get the upper hand on it, which is what AECOM is working towards, which is what I'm working towards, but will never completely defeat it. It'll still be there to some extent because we're people, and it's a people thing, it's not some nebulous force. It's something that's part of who we are, unfortunately. JO  48:18 We heard from Trudy and Lisa earlier about key components of mentally healthy workplaces. And there were four primary ones. And this is where we bring part two of this episode into alignment with part one, we're going to talk about those four components... leadership, culture, peer support and training. Starting with leadership, Quentin, how does good leadership set the stage for a mentally healthy workplace?  QUENTIN  48:54 Buy-in at all levels. So, from the owner, to the manager, to the workers themselves, you have to have that buy-in. It starts with the owner. It starts with the CEO. It starts with whoever's at the top. If they own it, it's disseminated much better than if it's not. Proactive HR departments where they make progressive workplace policies, on things like bullying, harassment, or zero-tolerance policies... on behaviors that would stigmatize the workplace and its employees. There's occupational health and safety committees... them using their platform to make mental health an actual regular agenda item for the promotion, or the education, of mental health. And it's awareness. Things like celebrating Mental Health Day. There's the education thing like 'mental health first date' as Trevor's attested to a number of times. It's a powerful, powerful thing for education in the workplace. Education on what is bullying. I'm doing actually a course a couple of weeks from now talking about what is bullying and harassment in the workplace, and what it's not. Respect in the workplace is along the same kind of lines... respect for each other. And on site, companies that take toolboxes, they do their toolbox in the morning just to brief everybody. But some of those toolboxes now are starting to add in Mental Health Moments. That's another great place. And of course, I'm an advocate of proper discipline in the workplace. And what I mean by proper discipline is not just the discipline that's rendered, but it's how they arrive at what discipline we rendered. For instance, I've been advocating into our companies... to our signatories and HR departments... listen, you need to be adding mental health as part of the framing of your investigation. In other words, "Is there a potential mental health issue at play that we need to consider as a factor?" I can remember dealing with a health care unit... a company... and this person had patterns in absenteeism around Christmas for the last three years. This is a number of years ago, going back a number of years ago. And I asked the HR department, the directors, "Have you ever asked this individual why that is? Because you've made a bunch of assumptions here. And maybe there's something going on that we're not aware of?" They said, "I don't think that's my place." I said, "It is absolutely your place to ask." It's the same thing as if you suspect one of your employees might have an addiction to alcohol, you have to ask the questions… "Do you have a problem? Are you in need of assistance?”... these types of things. And I just said, “Listen, do you mind if I approach the individual and ask them?" And so, I did. And I said, "Hey, listen, I just came out of a meeting. They're concerned about this timeframe... every year for the last three years you take it off, or you don't bother phoning in, and then you just go to kind of AWOL." I said, "If there's something going on, that would help me explain the situation to them, that we might be able to reconcile this in a different way than just discipline. And this lady told me that, "Yeah, I'll tell you what it is... I have an anxiety disorder, and it peaks. And it started three years ago, when my aunt and my niece were coming to visit me, and they went through Rogers Pass and got in a head on, and both died instantly on impact. So, every year, the week before Christmas, my brain shuts down, and I can't handle it." I said, "Do you mind if I share this with the HR department, because this is significant, and we can get you help." Long story short, went in there and said, here's the reason. And what we ended up doing is that we're not going to discipline her, what we're going to do is you're going to give her a hall pass for the next couple of years. “We're going to give you the time off, just let us know if you need it. But we'll just make sure that you're off the schedule, so that you can work through this issue, not worrying about leaving us behind.” And within that two years, we also got her some help dealing with a cognitive behavioral therapist about her anxiety disorder  around it. You know what, two years later, different lady and learning how to manage it. And now it's like, every so often, every Christmas since then, maybe a day, if that at all, couple days, but a significant difference. That's what I'm talking about. That's very, very helpful. Or including mental health days as part of the definition of sick days. That's an important piece to put in there. And of course, I think, personally speaking, that the inclusion of personal days, either paid or unpaid, preferably paid into the collective agreement, covering off mental health days, including mental health days, like I said, as definitions of sick days. I think that's huge. I am a big advocate of that. JO  53:25 Trevor, what are AECOM leaders doing to build more mentally healthy environments for its workers? TREVER  53:33 I think a big thing with our leaders, for our VP Shawn Jubinville, he has made this such a big mission of his for the last two years to talk about mental health. So, it's coming down from above, to our corporate guys, to our site managers, to our project managers, to our directors. He is such a key part to our industry. And in that same breath, he's serving the people, coming to the same level so that servant leadership is so important, because then people feel like they can come to you. I've worked for a few different companies in my life, and usually a VP or a director, usually you feel like he's above you, he's so far away that you can't connect, or you can't contact him. When our VP comes to site, or he comes to talk to people, they feel open to talk to him. If they've got an issue, they want something resolved, they'll bring it up to him... he has such a good way to represent our company in that servant way. And it's so easy for me as a site safety, to serve the people here to show them that we want to take care of any mental health issues that come up. And Quentin talked about harassment, and people that get beat up, and we don't see it. They're getting harassed by words... are getting picked on. We've had quite a few different occasions on site where that came to my attention. And we do have the tools to discipline and deal with that very quickly, even quicker than sometimes an instant, because when it comes to harassment, and somebody is getting pushed to the side, getting bullied, we do not allow that. And you don't always get to see it right away, so that's where, when you come in as a servant, you come in at the same level as people, you don't come from above, it's easy for somebody to come over and say, "Trevor, this is what's going on, what do we do?"... because they're at a loss... they feel like they're up against the wall. We need to show anybody in our group that it's very important to speak up. JO  55:16 So, it looks like AECOM is doing a number of really incredible things to foster better mental health. What else could they be doing? You're down in the trenches doing this work every day. What else can they do to help in that move toward minimizing stigma and mental health issues? TREVER  55:38 I think a big thing is we just need to keep pushing and keep speaking up to make sure that our leadership hears that the sites need this. And the importance of it is the same as safety. It's the same as practices, procedures, all the stuff we deal with already this has to be pushed that same level. And I like what Quentin said, when it comes to benefits, we need to get sick days, we need to get things that support mental health, as well as they understand that this is something we need time to deal with. We need to pull away and take that break to recharge, reset, and get that special treatment.  QUENTIN  56:10 If I'm an owner of a company and I have a problem with absenteeism, or even presenteeism, it's a lot more cost effective, to be honest, to provide that in a contract, than for people to take two three weeks off and collect either medical EI or short-term disability. The numbers make sense from a fiscal

In this episode of CHATTINN CYBER, host Marc Schein is joined by Matthew Pachman, the Vice President, Chief Risk and Compliance Officer at FTI Consulting. Matthew has an extensive background in Compliance and Risk Management. Originally hailing from New Jersey, Matthew Pachman has a degree in Law from the University of Virginia. He has been awarded Compliance Week’s Top Minds Award. He was named “Top Ethics and Compliance Officer” by the Ethisphere Institute for three consecutive years. He is a recognized and decorated professional speaker in the corporate compliance space. Welcome Matthew Pachman! Matthew  kicks it off with an explanation of the differences between Compliance and Risk Management as they relate to cyber liability. Cyber risk is top priority. It is what every board member, executive and regulator worry about on a day-to-day basis. From the compliance side of cyber security, Matthew stresses that one can implement rules and systems to control these dangerous factors. We then move into a discussion about the importance of cyber protection within a company and the approaches we can take to make sure the company has a culture of compliance and awareness. What role does Human Resources play in this? Matthew shares his take on cyber protection and employee awareness which rely on HR communication tactics. Anywhere we talk about communication and culture, HR is involved! Next, we shift gears to the subject of cyber insurance. Matthew shares the qualities and tools he looks for in an insurance program as well as a corporate program. If you are in the risk business, you cannot underestimate the importance of cyber insurance! This especially applies to today’s work environment which is primarily remote due to Covid-19 and thus a higher need for cyber security. Wrapping up our interview, Matthew leaves us with some of the pros and cons for those looking to start a career in cyber risk. He says “You have to like playing defense. You are trying to protect your goal.”   What You Will Learn Compliance or Risk Management; which one is more difficult to approach? What is required for better risk management? What is HR’s role in cyber risk management? What makes a good cyber program for controlling cyber risks? Importance of having cyber insurance. What are the pros and cons of taking cyber risk management as a career path?      

The world-renowned HR thought leader Josh Bersin joins Mike Simonds, COO of Unum Group, and Swapnil Prabha, Unum's VP of Digital Offering, in a discussion about the fundamental changes wrought by the pandemic – and how those changes are driving benefits tech trends and innovations in 2021. Post-pandemic economic boom. As we slowly emerge from the pandemic, many experts are predicting an economic boom. Signs are pointing to a dynamic economy with a lot of opportunities for businesses and HR professionals. [03:28]A greater appreciation of work. This past year, many workers experienced the stress of balancing personal and professional responsibilities from home. Yet, many people gained a greater appreciation of the value of work, finding a purpose and refuge from the pandemic, according to The Business Resilience: The Global COVID-19 Pandemic Response Study[RA1] .  (08:49)The employee experience and technology. At the beginning of the pandemic, many leaders doubted the capabilities and productivity of employees working from home. A year later, there's a completely new way of thinking about work technology and the employee experience. [10:16]Real-time integrations with HRIS platforms. Unum has accelerated work of building technology that integrates with popular HRIS platforms for a seamless experience for employers and employees alike. Intuitive technology like this helps employers overcome administration challenges and focus more on the employee experience. [12:58]Benefits are essentials. Now is the time for the benefits industry to start thinking about how to deliver a digital, consumer-like experience to employees. What was once viewed as optional benefits are now seen as essential parts of the work experience and employee productivity.  (15:48)HR tech objectives. In 2021, innovations in HR technology are trying to get HR teams back at what they do best and where they have the biggest business impacts – with simplistic and thoughtful designs and solutions.  (18:00)Mental health is critically important. As more employers adopt mental health programs, employers and leaders can promote mental and emotional well-being by incorporating it into the workplace culture while technology can help easily deliver access to the appropriate support and care. [20:40]  Josh BersinGlobal Industry Analyst, Dean, Josh Bersin AcademyJosh Bersin founded Bersin & Associates in 2001 to provide research and advisory services focused on corporate learning. He expanded the company's coverage to encompass HR, talent management, talent acquisition, and leadership and became a recognized expert in the talent market.Mike Simonds Executive Vice President, COO of Unum GroupMike Simonds is the Chief Operating Officer of Unum Group, one of The Ethisphere Institute's world's most ethical companies. Since joining Unum in 1994, Simonds has worked in various leadership roles and has helped lead the company's focus on customer satisfaction and expansion into voluntary, dental and vision benefits.. Swapnil PrabhaVice President, Digital Offerings, UnumWith 15 years of experience in the insurance industry, Swapnil is the Vice President of Digital Offerings at Unum. Prior to joining Unum, Swapnil spent seven years at McKinsey & Company where she was a leader in the Insurance Practice focused on Digital Services across all lines of business and Employee Benefits specifically.

Terry Stringer, head of ethics at HP, speaks with LRN’s Ben DiPietro about the mission work she does in Africa with her husband, what it’s like to be a Black female executive in 2020, and how she is adapting her ethics initiatives to account for COVID-19.   “I’ve always been very self-confident, so those types of, we’ll call them micro-aggressions, that I might have experienced, I could just slough them off...Where it gets harder is if that individual has some sort of control over your pay, or your ability to be promoted.” - Terry Stringer   Terry Stringer has been called “the Ethics Whisperer” for her work in enabling leaders and organizations foster cultures of integrity. She has worked in ethics and compliance and HR for over 15 years in the energy industry, and as founder of a consulting firm and now is with HP, where she heads the company’s ethics office and the Center of Excellence. HP was named for the first time in 2020 as one of the world’s most ethical companies by Ethisphere Institute.   In addition to her work in E&C, Terry is passionate about developing a pipeline of STEM-educated talent in minority and under-served communities and has worked with several organizations to help prepare today’s youth for the jobs of the future.   She is married to Bishop Martin Stringer, and together they conduct mission trips to African countries including Zimbabwe, Liberia, South Africa and Zambia. She is the mother of three children and a chocolate Labrador-mix named Jackie Robinson.   What You’ll Learn on This Episode:   [2:04] What kind of work have Springer and her husband done in Africa and what are they currently doing?   [3:12] What sparked Springer’s interest in ethics and compliance and how has her career path led to her current role at HP?   [5:36] As a black woman, what experiences are informing the way that Springer engages with the social justice issues of today?   [10:40] How has Covid-19 impacted HP’s operations and how is Springer planning the return of employees to their offices?   Don’t miss our next episode! Be sure to subscribe to Principled on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Play or wherever you listen to podcasts.

The Compliance Life details the journey to and in the role of a Chief Compliance Officer. How does one come to sit in the CCO chair? What are some of the skills a CCO needs to success navigate the compliance waters in any company? What are some of the top challenges CCOs have faced and how did they meet them? These questions and many others will be explored in this new podcast series. Over four episodes each month on The Compliance Life, I visit with one current or former CCO to explore their journey to the CCO chair. This month, my guest is Louis Sapirman, Vice President, Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer and Chief Compliance Counsel for Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Panasonic Corporation. He oversees the company's regulatory and compliance function, maintaining a culture of ethics, and ensuring all employees are upholding Panasonic's longstanding values in their work.   Louis previously served as Associate General Counsel & Chief Compliance Officer for the Dun & Bradstreet Corporation. During his tenure as CCO, the company was recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies by the Ethisphere Institute. Prior to moving in-house, Louis worked in private practice with several law firms including Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr and Buchanan Ingersoll. Throughout his career, Louis has been recognized for his work. In both 2015 and 2016, the Ethisphere Institute named him to their list of Attorneys Who Matter in Compliance and Ethics, and in 2010 he was named International Employment Lawyer of the Year by the Association of Corporate Counsel. In this final episode, going forward Sapirman says it will all be about the data, data and more data and the metrics to go along with it. However, it is not enough to simply track data, both from the government's perspective and from the business case, your business unit folks need actionable insights. There will be greater scrutiny of both CSR and the Supply Chain and that 3rd party compliance is not just about due diligence on your suppliers and finally the role of procurement in compliance. Sapirman believes there will be more professional in the field of compliance with schools having Ethics & Compliance. Compliance professionals will be more challenged with privacy issues, trade control challenges and economic sanctions as well the cultural realities of movements such as #MeToo and Black Lives Matter. We concluded with thoughts on the convergence of compliance and risk – the importance of compliance professionals understanding their position in an organization's risk universe. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Compliance Life details the journey to and in the role of a Chief Compliance Officer. How does one come to sit in the CCO chair? What are some of the skills a CCO needs to success navigate the compliance waters in any company? What are some of the top challenges CCOs have faced and how did they meet them? These questions and many others will be explored in this new podcast series. Over four episodes each month on The Compliance Life, I visit with one current or former CCO to explore their journey to the CCO chair. This month, my guest is Louis Sapirman, Vice President, Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer and Chief Compliance Counsel for Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Panasonic Corporation. He oversees the company's regulatory and compliance function, maintaining a culture of ethics, and ensuring all employees are upholding Panasonic's longstanding values in their work.    Louis previously served as Associate General Counsel & Chief Compliance Officer for the Dun & Bradstreet Corporation. During his tenure as CCO, the company was recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies by the Ethisphere Institute. Prior to moving in-house, Louis worked in private practice with several law firms including Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr and Buchanan Ingersoll. Throughout his career, Louis has been recognized for his work. In both 2015 and 2016, the Ethisphere Institute named him to their list of Attorneys Who Matter in Compliance and Ethics, and in 2010 he was named International Employment Lawyer of the Year by the Association of Corporate Counsel. In this Episode 3, Sapirman discusses how communications can be used to help drive a more ethical culture. Sapirman believes that communication as a driver of culture. But more than simply being a great communicator, a compliance practitioner must use skill to help others communicate the messages of ethics and compliance. He discusses the concept of 360-degree communications. He is a big fan of social media and the power of non-verbal communications. He concludes with an example of how he used training as an effective tool of communications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Compliance Life details the journey to and in the role of a Chief Compliance Officer. How does one come to sit in the CCO chair? What are some of the skills a CCO needs to success navigate the compliance waters in any company? What are some of the top challenges CCOs have faced and how did they meet them? These questions and many others will be explored in this new podcast series. Over four episodes each month on The Compliance Life, I visit with one current or former CCO to explore their journey to the CCO chair. This month, my guest is Louis Sapirman, Vice President, Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer and Chief Compliance Counsel for Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Panasonic Corporation. He oversees the company's regulatory and compliance function, maintaining a culture of ethics, and ensuring all employees are upholding Panasonic's longstanding values in their work.    Louis previously served as Associate General Counsel & Chief Compliance Officer for the Dun & Bradstreet Corporation. During his tenure as CCO, the company was recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies by the Ethisphere Institute. Prior to moving in-house, Louis worked in private practice with several law firms including Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr and Buchanan Ingersoll. Throughout his career, Louis has been recognized for his work. In both 2015 and 2016, the Ethisphere Institute named him to their list of Attorneys Who Matter in Compliance and Ethics, and in 2010 he was named International Employment Lawyer of the Year by the Association of Corporate Counsel. In this Episode 2, we explore the qualities of thesuccessful CECO. Some of the key leadership attributes Sapirman sees as critical are Great Communication, a skill that should be practiced constantly, to ensure you remain successful. You should engage in Servant Leadership and your success lies solely in the success of others. Why you need to be flexible and even be a Chameleon. You must be innovative because if you keep doing the same thing over and over, eventually it becomes stale and is destined to fail. Success in E&C requires the ability to be creative and see the novel solutions and change necessary to keep your program successful. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Compliance Life details the journey to and in the role of a Chief Compliance Officer. How does one come to sit in the CCO chair? What are some of the skills a CCO needs to success navigate the compliance waters in any company? What are some of the top challenges CCOs have faced and how did they meet them? These questions and many others will be explored in this new podcast series. Over four episodes each month on The Compliance Life, I visit with one current or former CCO to explore their journey to the CCO chair. This month, my guest is Louis Sapirman, Vice President, Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer and Chief Compliance Counsel for Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Panasonic Corporation. He oversees the company's regulatory and compliance function, maintaining a culture of ethics, and ensuring all employees are upholding Panasonic's longstanding values in their work.    Louis previously served as Associate General Counsel & Chief Compliance Officer for the Dun & Bradstreet Corporation. During his tenure as CCO, the company was recognized as one of the World's Most Ethical Companies by the Ethisphere Institute. Prior to moving in-house, Louis worked in private practice with several law firms including Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr and Buchanan Ingersoll. Throughout his career, Louis has been recognized for his work. In both 2015 and 2016, the Ethisphere Institute named him to their list of Attorneys Who Matter in Compliance and Ethics, and in 2010 he was named International Employment Lawyer of the Year by the Association of Corporate Counsel.  In this first episode, we consider Louis' personal and professional journey into the field of compliance. We get to know Sapirman through his family and why he is so passionate about compliance, institutional justice and institutional fairness. We learn about two experiences growing up that helped informed his views on diversity and the wider world. He talks about his experience as a member of a service fraternity in college and then moves into his professional career. His legal work as a Generalist into Employment Attorney, moving to Employment and Litigation work at D&B and then revamping the investigations process at D&B. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode features Louis Sapirman, chief ethics and compliance officer at Panasonic North America, who talks with LRN’s Ben DiPietro about the need for empathy by companies during the pandemic, the ways companies can help address racial injustice, and what it means to be the white parent of an adopted Black teen-aged son in 2020 America.   “Corporate America is a great Petri dish for building the type of society that we actually want externally. I would challenge all companies to take the time, not just to talk, not just to communicate...but to take the time to look within themselves and say what can we do to strengthen our own cultures...so that it reflects the way we want society as a whole to be.” - Louis Sapirman   Louis A. Sapirman is the chief ethics and compliance officer and chief compliance counsel for Panasonic Corporation of North America, the principal North American subsidiary of Panasonic Corp. He oversees the company’s regulatory and compliance function, maintaining a culture of ethics, and ensuring all employees are upholding Panasonic's values in their work.   Sapirman previously served as associate general counsel and chief compliance officer for the Dun & Bradstreet Corp. During his tenure, the company was recognized as one of the World’s Most Ethical Companies by the Ethisphere Institute. Prior to moving in-house, Louis worked in private practice with several law firms, including Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale & Dorr, and Buchanan Ingersoll.   He earned his bachelor’s degree in philosophy from the State University of New York-College at Geneseo, and his Juris Doctorate from Rutgers School of Law in Newark, N.J. Outside of work, Sapirman is an avid volunteer, including his work with the Giving Network, and as a former member of the Board of Trustees of Rutgers University.   What You’ll Learn on This Episode:   [1:06] What sparked Sapirman’s interest in ethics and compliance and how has his career path led him to his current role?   [3:43] What are some of Panasonic’s core values?   [4:41] What were Sapirman’s goals after joining the company and how has Covid affected their progress?   [6:50] What are some of Sapirman’s concerns from a ethics and compliance perspective as it relates to reopening post-Covid?   [8:23] How can employers handle employees who are reluctant to return to in-office work?   [13:38] How has Sapirman’s experience with his own son shaped how he views the current climate?   Find this episode of Principled on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Sound Cloud, Podyssey, or anywhere you listen to podcasts.  

Leslie Benton is the Vice President of Ethisphere Institute. She chats with Vince Walden about how her company helps businesses with anti-corruption, assessments and benchmarking. Leslie shares her background in the field of anti-corruption, and how she became Vice President of Ethisphere. She mentions that she has gained perspectives from both the private sector and NGOs.  Ethisphere has created a methodology platform for companies to internally assess their programs, which they can take to score the maturity of their programs in various areas such as corruption and cyber security. Ethisphere encourages companies to take a deep dive into their own programs with the platform's assessment tools, which allow them to address and identify areas of high and low performance. The maturity scoring provides metrics that can be tracked over time as they improve, and are used as benchmark data. The platform also has other tools and resources that help companies ensure their programs are in a cycle of continual improvement. Leslie advises companies to regularly monitor their third parties, as their involvement brings numerous risks.  Resources Leslie Benton on LinkedIn  Ethisphere.com

Engineering Influence sat down with Tom Topolski, Parsons' EVP for Infrastructure Business Development to discuss the company's rigorous ethics and compliance program and being recognized as one of the world's most ethical companies by the Ethisphere Institute.Transcript:Host:Welcome back to another episode of Engineering Influence, a podcast by the American Council of Engineering Companies. Now America's engineering industry is engaged in a daily effort to improve the lives of every American, but how they go about doing that work is just as important as the work itself, which really brings us to today's topic - the importance of ethics in business and the role of compliance and how that plays in corporate success.Host:And I'm really pleased to be joined by my guest today. Tom Topolski. He's the Executive Vice President for Infrastructure Business Development at Parsons. In his role, Tom oversees efforts to achieve top and bottom line growth by identifying market opportunities to extend Parsons' infrastructure portfolio. And really what sets Tom apart from many of his peers in the industry is - especially in business development - is the fact that he is also a Certified Compliance and Ethics Professional and serves on Parsons' ethics committee.Host:And that is interesting in itself. But beyond that, Parsons for the 11th year running was just named one of Ethisphere's most ethical companies in the world. And it's not a small, small honor. It's something that is, that is very, very competitive and very highly sought after. So 11 years in a row, first time Parsons has won it as a public company. And it's great to have Tom on the show today to talk about the award and also just kind of the outlook that the company has on ethics, compliance, you know, business practices and why it's so important for the engineering industry and why it just helps, you know, accentuate what we do. So, Tom, thank you for being on.Tom Topolski:Jeff, thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it's just great to have the opportunity to talk to you about this.Host:Could you tell us a little bit about what you, what you do at Parsons?Tom Topolski:Well, as you mentioned, I'm the Executive Vice President for Strategy and Business Development across our critical infrastructure business. So that includes all modes of critical infrastructure. It's highway, bridge, rail and transit, aviation ports and marine, smart cities, intelligent transportation systems. You know, the gamut of - Parsons is very much a full service company providing services from the conceptual planning feasibility studies through to design, construction, asset management.Host:So really it's that whole infrastructure portfolio that you cover.Tom Topolski:Right, and solutions. And I think why ethics and compliance is really important in that space too is people take it for granted, right? But everybody uses some form of transportation to get where they are today, Right?Host:Exactly.Tom Topolski:We serve hundreds of millions of people when you think about it in terms of the infrastructure, right? Whether it's people driving on our roads using our bridges, riding on the Metro system, using an airport. And so there's a lot of public trust that's put into making sure those structures are designed properly, they're constructed properly and that they're safe.Host:Absolutely. I mean Parsons is an international company. You do business around the world. You have about 10,000 employees, I think is...Host:16,000 employees.Tom Topolski:How, how important is it to drill the message down of doing business in an ethical way, especially when you're dealing with other countries that have different rules and regulations and practices on business?Tom Topolski:Well, Jeff, let me give you a couple of good examples. I was running our business in the middle East for a number of years and I can give you two examples that is, that I'm particularly proud of and I've always used these as ethics and compliance moments when we start meetings and so forth. In one case there was a country in the middle East after nine 11 that they started to surveil communications. And they were basically looking to see if there was money laundering going on for any terrorism activities, things like that. I don't know if they ever found that, but what they did find was a very large corruption scheme at one of the public works authorities. And what I'm proud of without going into a lot of details is that our company was the only one in our peer group, our company that not even had anyone questioned.Tom Topolski:So what that told me, I mean, every one of our other competitors either had their managing directors deported, put in jail, people were questioned top to bottom, but we weren't even questioned. So what that said to me was not only did we have the tone at the top correct, but it was the mood in the middle and the buzz at the bottom as they say in the compliance industry, that it was in our DNA, that we didn't get involved in any of those kinds of activities. Another example was in a, in the middle East was when we participated in a design competition and we spent a lot of money on that. When you're doing a design competition, you have to come up with the concept design, the architecture of it and so forth. As the procurement proceeded, we and I was called to a meeting with the director of the public works department. At that time I realized that it was not going to be a transparent procurement and essentially said that we would withdraw from the competition. And again, what's important wasn't my decision on that. But when I called the president of our global business unit, I had full support. It wasn't like, Tom, are you crazy? Get back in, you know, I have the full support. And so again, it's a culture right top to bottom. Everybody knows to do the right thing. And I think that's one of the things that's always differentiated Parsons in the industry.Host:For our members. I mean we have firms of varying sizes. We have, you know, of course, solo to small practitioners all the way up to Parsons and your peers in the international space. And we had one of our executive committee members on a couple programs ago when he was talking about leadership. He's the, he's the chairman of another firm out of Michigan. And he, he was really talking about the need to kind of drill down through all the layers to try to get a when he was talking about business, it's more of the vision, strategic vision. And I guess it's the same for really an ethics and compliance program.Tom Topolski:Let me give you another good example of how you apply that and how you build up the client trust. Also going back to the middle East, and this is about 18 or 20 years ago. So it's not a new thing with Parsons. It's been in our DNA I think really since the inception of the company. But in Dubai when there was just massive construction going on, well and it's continued, we introduced the concept of integral abutment bridges. And so by doing that, we reduce the cost of bridge construction by about 50% with reduced quantities, which we demonstrated. But more importantly to it was the life cycle cost. Because when you're using integral abutments, you eliminate the need for the expansion joints and the bearings in most cases. So from a life cost, from a maintenance cost is greatly reduced. Now in doing that and why this is important is our design was on a percentage of constructed value. So we actually reduced our design fee by doing that quite substantially. But the client could obviously see what we were doing. We earned the trust and ultimately ended up with a tremendous amount of market share because they knew they could count on Parsons to do the right thing and you know, create the most efficient and effective design for them considering life cycle.Host:Absolutely. Yeah. As a lasting effort if you can prove that you're doing things right.Tom Topolski:Yeah. And especially where you're really, again, you're using it, it's the public trust, right. And it's using money in the public interest. And so if you can demonstrate that you're using that, those funds again for the beneficial purpose of the project, delivering it as efficiently as you can. I do think that no better way to gain trust.Host:Yeah, absolutely. And an award like Ethisphere is, like I said, it's a, it's a sought after award. Some of the most recognizable brands in the world are our recipients. And you are just one of, I think one of two engineering firms that actually were named. And what does that mean for your role in business development to be able to go out to potential clients to potential markets and be able to say, you know, we were able to achieve this thing.Tom Topolski:I think it means a lot. It's a, it's a huge differentiator. And I think what adds to that is that we've done it 11 years in a row. So it shows that we, it's not just something that we've decided to do because it was seen as something that was important in a given year. No, it demonstrates, I think, the ongoing commitment that just like our commitment to health and safety, environment, quality, sustainability, innovation, all of those core values, integrity, ethics and compliance is central to the way that we conduct ourselves, the way we do our business. And it is, it's it, yeah. As you know, very well winning the Ethisphere recognition. It's, it's not an easy task. I mean, there, it is a very rigorous process. So it demonstrates the commitment amongst all the 16,000 of my peers. Yeah. Yeah.Host:And from your position, both as a certified ethics professional and then also on the on on the ethics committee at Parsons for if you were, if there was a firm there that was looking to either revise or to strengthen its own compliance program and you know, what, what are some of the top things they should keep in mind if they were to do that?Tom Topolski:Great question Jeff. And I think because I've seen the other side of it, of firms that really haven't had quite the same commitment that Parsons has always had. I believe having someone, for example, I and indeed I may be the only a business development professional in our peer group who has a CCPI. But what it does is it demonstrates to the larger population the commitment that ethics and compliance is not here as a police force or an enforcement. No, it's rather we are here working with you to address concerns. You may have to address questions. You may have to ensure that we're imparting what it means to do business with integrity.Tom Topolski:You know, to have the highest commitment to ethics. So having people from the business to, so for example, having me on the ethics committee, I know what it's like to run the business. I know what it's like to pursue with a procurement processes like or challenges come up so I can add a lot of value rather than just having somebody on the ethics and compliance compliance side who hasn't necessarily been in the operation. So we on the committee, we have two other of my colleagues. We have the EVP for corporate operations and then we also have a VP for corporate compliance operations. So it's a very tight group. We interact with each other on a daily basis, reviewing questions that come up, cases that come up. And the other thing that I always try to do too is I get the FCPA blog.Tom Topolski:I don't know if you've ever heard of it. And so what I do is I share the FCPA blog, not all the time because then it's overload and people can look out of this perfunctory. But I give a good example when there was a Houston Astros scandal with the, with the cheating and the world series, and there was some articles about that and the FCPA blog. I was really delighted actually about the amount of dialogue that came out once I forwarded that article. And people expressed personal, very passionate stories about how it affected them because they were Houston Astros fans and so forth. But it's in that way, I believe that you build up the culture and people recognize, look, I need to not only do this from my peers, I need to do it for myself. Right? I mean, can you imagine if you had a compliance issue, right?Tom Topolski:And you had to, you know, you had to, you lost your job or worse, you had, maybe you, you know, had a criminal case against you. How do you face your family, your friends, you know it's you never get your reputation back after something like that.Host:And kind of a shameless plug for our webinars, but we actually do have a webinar available that, that focuses on FCPA compliance. Bill Steinman who contributes to the FCPA blog, actually, it actually held that webinar. So that's up there for members. If you want to go take a look, that's the foreign corrupt practices act. Of course that's more international work. Of course. But still, you know it's a body of law, which is the DOJ is doing a lot to enforce increasingly. SoTom Topolski:Just like to let people know if they didn't know I last year in 2019, it was a record year for DOD DOJ enforcement of the FCPA violations, $2.6 billion dollars. So you know, even when we always talk about health and safety, of course the overall overarching objective is to make sure everybody goes home at least as healthy or more healthy than they were when they started out. But the same but the results. So of course the financial impact of it, right? Cause you don't want workman's compensation claims and so forth. Same thing with ethics and compliance. We want to do things the right way, but there is I, if you look in our peer group of all the firms that have either gone out of business or have become acquired that aren't on the map, firms that have had compliance issues tend to not survive it.Tom Topolski:You know, because the fines are steep. Then you tack on the legal costs associated with that, the lost opportunity costs. It can kill the firm and you need to think about, you know, the jobs lost reputational issues.Host:It's not an add on. It has to be a core business practice.Tom Topolski:Yeah, you can't. And again, that's why you know, it is kind of glib to say tone at the top, mood in the middle, buzz at the bottom. But, but the point of that is, is to really drive home to everybody that it has to be in the DNA and that people can't just give a wink and a nod. You really, you have to believe it. You have to. And that's what's wonderful about Parsons too. It's always, you know, I've been with the company 12 years, over two stents and I missed the company while I was away because I did miss that really strong commitment. But I've always seen it from the earliest days I was with the company through to today right from our chairman, our board all the way through to people out in the field. People take it seriously and and believe in it. And you can feel that.Host:Yeah. Well I wanna I want to take advantage of your expertise also in business development because some, some wider industry questions because we always try to get a handle on where things are trending and wanted to get an idea from you from your perspective looking at the infrastructure space and and, and where do you think technology is taking us? Where do you think the, you know, the next 10 years lays for firms or the industry doing work in the public sector? And, and you know, where's technology going? What's Parson's kind of looking at? How are you positioning yourselves?Tom Topolski:Great question. I, I liked it. Well, first of all, I, what I always say to people too, I feel very fortunate to be in this business at this time because I think it's the most exciting time in our industry and probably over a hundred years. And you know, if you really look back, it was just over a hundred years ago that automobiles started to really take hold and have mass you know, ownership and replace the horse and buggy. And I think that right now the opportunities are immense. I liked it. I think Parsons with our focus on technology, our focus on innovation, always our quest for doing things better. You know, making it things more efficient and effective position us where the nexus between the traditional infrastructure, which we had been doing for over 75 years and technology enabled infrastructure. You look at construction, you're going to more modular construction, you're going to drones, robotics, you know, for example, if it's signaling in a subway system, right?Tom Topolski:It's easier to have a robot go into some of those confined spaces than put people at risk. It's more efficient. And you know, again, sometimes there's labor shortages as well. So I think you'll begin to see more robotics in some ways, scheduling and programming, artificial intelligence coming into play. But I think some of the big transitions are, you know, you look at the smartphone, right? 10 years ago, if I held out a smartphone and said, you're going to be able to do your banking on that, you're going to be able to call a taxi on that. You're getting kind of all your videos, your music on that. You'd say you're crazy, right? Yeah. But think of the disruption that the smart phone has had on so many different industries, right? So I think Uber and Lyft are the first stage of getting us to connected and autonomous vehicles.Tom Topolski:Now, right now, the impact is more traffic, but the convenience factor of Uber and Lyft, it took hold immediately, right? I mean, people adapted to that. They're willing to spend a little bit more money for the convenience and comfort. So the next step, and I think where we'll begin to really realize the benefits is when we do have the adoption of more autonomous vehicles. And I don't think that that's that far away. And I think the combination of that with electric vehicles as well is going to be transformational. And then a lot of it, what we, I always like to say I'm an airport is really a city with runways. And so I think that's another place where you can incubate a lot of the smart cities technologies that you can then more broadly apply across two cities and States. And so it's an exciting time for us.Tom Topolski:And I think I'm, I'm delighted to be with Parsons because I think with the technology we have, we're incredibly well positioned to capitalize on the trends and shape the trends. In fact, absolutely. I think that, that, that sentiment is shared that technology is going to unlock a whole host of new opportunities for the industry regardless of size. Well, just as an example to think about airports, again going back there, you know, if you look at manufacturing and if you ever watch a manufacturing floor, most of that has robotics, right? Whether it's bringing parts, whatever, you know it's a very, very automated. If you look at the air side in particular, there's no reason why a lot of those activities couldn't be automated that are now you know, where you have people driving around on your, so from a safety factor and efficiency factor to automate the air side, I think we're not far away from something like that.Host:Yeah. And that's, that's something which from a policy side ACEC has been working with the airports is the facility charge. It's getting that increased so that airports can look to make investments in physical plant.Tom Topolski:We hope to work with ACEC on the land side as well because I think there is a massive opportunities for them.Host:Without question, without question. We've got, we have a, we have a great opportunity for a, for a long term and substantial infrastructure bill and hopefully one that does take advantage of policy and policy pro projects and, and, and kind of test beds for bringing a lot of this from, from the drawing boards in the reality.Tom Topolski:And, and Jeff, I think what we need to do, you talked about policy and funding and I think what we really hope to do working with the AECC in concert is, is ring fencing the funding because sometimes it, it, it's we don't have that consistent funding, right?Tom Topolski:We're always sort of wondering, is a transportation bill going to be passed? Is there enough funding? Is chasing our tail in one way. And so consequently, if you look and you compare us globally, we've fallen behind and our infrastructure is in pretty dire shape. So we really need that focus and making sure that the funding is there, that it's consistent and allows us to really do her job and deliver infrastructure that again, will serve millions of people every day. Without fail. Yeah. And that's one of the things we always take to the Hill when we have meetings is, you know, our industry are a bunch of problem solvers. We know there's a problem and there's a solution and the solution just has to involve longterm predictive, sustainable funding to actually get this stuff done. Think about it, right? You look at, I don't know if you're aware, but the average travel speed in Manhattan during peak commute hours is about four and a half miles an hour.Tom Topolski:Okay. So think of the economic impact that has where you can't move people and goods effectively and efficiently. So this is a, it's things like that and there are ways to solve it. And I do think technology is going to end up being a big part of improving congestion.Host:Well it's, I think we should a good place to leave it off there. I'd love to have you back on the program later. We can kind of expand on this and maybe get into specific areas of infrastructure that have great promise. But again Tom Topolski, thank you so much for being onto the show on the show today with us. Talking about ethics compliance. Congratulations on the award. We'll have a link to that in the show notes and again just great having you on and thank you so much.Tom Topolski:Jeff, It's been my pleasure. Thanks for having me. 

How can being ethical grow a company’s bottom line? Joining us is Erica Salmon Byrne, the Executive Vice President at Ethisphere Institute and the Executive Director Business Ethics Leadership Alliance, as she shares about the Global Ethics Summit, the importance of being proactive when it comes to compliance, and how companies can do well by doing good. Proactive compliance Through the many investigations Erica has been a part of and learning about how or why things went wrong, she learned the value of a proactive and effective ethics and compliance program, not just on the company as a whole, but for the individuals who work for the company. It impacts both finances and team morale. That’s when Erica decided she had enough of a "defensive" compliance approach, and is now helping companies become more predictive and proactive about their compliance programs. Data and analytics There is a sudden proliferation of data that is available to us to figure out what’s actually working. You can find out where people are going for questions, what sort of things they’re looking for, and how to make overwhelming processes engaging, easy, and interesting for employees.  Externally, you can now also see what other companies are doing and how trusted they are by their employees. If you can position yourself as a trusted employer, how much easier would it be to recruit in this tight labor market?  Doing well by doing good At Ethisphere, they call this the Ethics Premium. Ethical companies continue to outperform others, and while Erica doesn’t know what the causation might be 100%, her hypothesis is that it’s a “sauce” of: Engaged employees who are committed to their role at the companyNot having to pay giant fines and fees Using the money saved from not having to pay fines and fees and putting it into R&D, M&A, and organic expansionInvesting in the communities that they’re engaged inWhat’s working well in building programs Internal partnerships: Have very strong working relationships between sister control functions, whether that’s ethics and compliance, internal audit, human resources — these functions have all figured out a way to work together.  Diversifying skill sets: Up until a few years ago, everyone who worked in compliance was a lawyer. Now we have people with data analytic skills, IT skills, audit skills, and even communication skills. Diversify those voices and make sure you have a robust reflection of skill sets on your ethics and compliance team. There’s no competition in compliance At the end of the day, what compliance professionals are all doing is trying to give people the tools that they need to be able to make good decisions on behalf of the company. There’s absolutely no reason why they shouldn’t share their discoveries with colleagues if it makes everybody’s life easier. It lifts our collective boats as organizations, and that’s the attitude this community has. Advice Don’t be afraid of data. Get close to the people who understand it. Ask stupid questions. Data is not going anywhere so you need to figure out how to get comfortable working with it and speaking about it.  Understand that we’re in a dynamic age. Transparency is everything. Figure out how you can tell true stories (in a way that your Labor and Employment lawyers are comfortable with) as  part of your education process. The impact this can have on employees is tremendous: not only will the situations feel real (because they are), but they’re also relevant because they actually happened at your company. Contact Erica  LinkedIn | Twitter

Guest OverviewThree time Foreign Correspondent of the Year nominee (the UK equivalent of a Pulitzer Prize), a dozen major International Prizes for Reporting including four Amnesty International Awards for Outstanding Human Rights Journalism, a Royal Television Society Award for Documentary-Making and a Martha Gellhorn Prize Nominee for War Reporting, Foreign Press Association of London writer of the Year and One World Journalist of the Year for outstanding Foreign Reporting, these awards are testament to the talent and tenacity of Scottish born journalist Dan McDougallDan was also voted one of the world's most influential people in the field of ethical trading by the US-based Ethisphere Institute, he is also a visiting lecturer at the University of Cambridge on Business and Human Rights and recently spoke at The UnitedNations in Geneva on the impact of corporate supply chains on the world's poorest.He's also an ardent Glasgow Celtic Fan and a all round good guy.I hope you enjoy this stimulating and uncompromising discussion with Dan MacDougallWhat we discuss:The influence of his working class upbringing in Glasgow, ScotlandHow he developed his political sensibilitiesThe impact of Poet Robert BurnsThe teacher that influenced his journeyHis route to tabloid journalism in GlasgowHis reporters lifeThe value of his curiosity and tenacious spirit in uncovering storiesHow serendipity changed his path during the 2005 TsunamiHis deep conviction to uncover corporate supply chain injusticesHis experiences of child labor abusesHis war correspondence experiencesHis views on fake newsDan's perspective on educationWhat he'd do with the keys to No 10 Downing Street or the White HouseHis views on the importance of creativityHis principlesHis hard choicesTurning class into an advantageHis Impossible adviceThe books he recommendsLinks in ShowDan's Current Content CompanyDan's InstagramMiran Instagram Miran YouTubeLinks in showRobert BurnsHerges Adventures of Tin Tin Maya AngelouLetter From America Glasgow Celtic The Daily Record 2004 TsunamiHis Recommended BooksThe Sheltering Sky - Paul Bowels Road to Oxiana - Byron See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Today's guest is Eric Foss, Chairman, President and CEO of Aramark, a Fortune 200 global leader in food, facilities and uniform services. The company employs 270,000 people and provides award-winning services wherever people work, learn, play and recover in 19 countries worldwide. Throughout his career, Foss has established a strong track record of generating profitable growth through integrated strategies and consistent execution. He has led global teams to successfully build leading brands through a 'front line first' mindset. Under Foss' leadership, Aramark has been recognized among the "Most Admired Companies" by FORTUNE and the "Worlds Most Ethical Companies" by the Ethisphere Institute. Connect with David on Twitter: twitter.com/DavidNovakOGO See more Podcasts: davidnovakleadership.com/leadership-podcast/ Take our Free Recognition Survey: davidnovakleadership.com/survey

The Ethisphere Institute recently had the opportunity to interview PepsiCo Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Indra Nooyi. Recorded at PepsiCo’s world headquarters in Purchase, New York, Mrs. Nooyi discussed her role as a CEO and how PepsiCo drives business results in a way that is responsive to the needs of the world around us while upholding a high standard of corporate integrity. In this exclusive podcast, Ethisphere CEO Tim Erblich chats with both Mrs. Nooyi and PepsiCo’s Executive Vice President, Government Affairs, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary, David Yawman, about the company’s journey to continuously improve and operate as a world class organization in supporting its communities and customers all over the world.

In this podcast, RANE founder David Lawrence sits down with David Pitofsky, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer at News Corp, where he oversees global legal operations including litigation, mergers and acquisitions, ethics and corporate governance matters and chairs the company’s Compliance Steering Committee. In June 2015, he was recognized on the “Attorneys Who Matter” list by Ethisphere Institute, the global leader in defining and advancing the standards of ethical business practice.

Richard Davis is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of U.S. Bancorp, a financial services holding company, headquartered in Minneapolis, with more than $438 billion in total assets and businesses across the United States, Canada and Europe. Davis has been an influencing force in the banking industry for 38 years. He began his banking career as a teller at age 18. In 2006, he became CEO of U.S. Bancorp after serving in several senior executive roles with the organization and its predecessors since 1993. U.S. Bank has been recognized by the Ethisphere Institute, the global leader in defining and advancing the standards of ethical business practices, as a World’s Most Ethical Company in 2015 and 2016. Davis was also named one of the 100 Most Influential People in Business Ethics by the Ethisphere Institute in 2015. His leadership and prudent approach to financial management has garnered national and international praise for U.S. Bancorp. Davis’ enthusiasm for his industry is equally prevalent in his many civic and philanthropic commitments. Davis earned a bachelor’s degree in economics from California State University at Fullerton. He is married and the father of three adult children and has four grandchildren.  

Richard Davis grew up in Hollywood and entered the banking world on his 18th birthday as a teller. Today, at age 57, he leads America’s 5th largest bank as Chairman and CEO of U.S. Bancorp – parent company of U.S. Bank. Headquartered in Minneapolis, U.S. Bancorp has over $410 billion in assets and businesses across the United States, Canada and Europe, including over 3,000 full-service banking offices and 5,000 ATMs in 25 states. This traditional bank model is now also the foundation for active innovation. U.S. Bank appointed its Chief Innovation Officer, Dominic Venturo, a decade ago (I highly recommend following Dominic on Twitter @innov8tr). They are active in payments technologies, and the holding company owns Elavon, which recently opened a mobile innovation center in Atlanta called “The Grove” focused on “new technologies that enable merchants to accept payments via mobile devices while also ensuring the ease of use and safety of the transaction from the customer’s perspective.” Richard’s leadership earned praise through the financial crisis and its aftermath, including being named “2010 Banker of the Year” by American Banker. The father of three adult children and with three grandkids, he is highly active in civic efforts and philanthropy, including serving on the boards of the Twin Cities YMCA, Minneapolis Art Institute, University of Minnesota Foundation, and National American Red Cross, among many others. He has been the recipient of the President’s Lifetime Volunteer Service Award, while U.S. Bancorp and its employees earned the 2011 Spirit of America Award, the highest honor bestowed on a company by United Way. The company also received the 2013 Freedom award, the U.S. Department of Defense’s highest award for employers for supporting employees who serve in the National Guard and Reserve. In 2011 Richard received the Henrickson’s Award for Ethical Leadership. In 2015, U.S. Bank was named as a World’s Most Ethical Company by the Ethisphere Institute, the global leader in defining and advancing the standards of ethical business practices. In my conversation with Richard, he wove together all these themes of business, innovation, and ethics. More than any of our guests thus far, he voices a full-throated faith in the future of retail bank banking -- including branches in lower-income communities. At the same time, he speaks thoughtfully about the need for innovation in the branch and beyond (while warning against falling in love with every new idea).   He also offers concrete advice for regulators on how to assure that innovation can flourish. And he talks inspiringly about the need for banks to rebuild the public’s trust in them, one customer at a time. He says customers are “the banks’ to lose,” and that, “If it’s good for the industry, it is probably worth doing.” Richard’s perspective is an invaluable contribution to our search for better consumer financial solutions. Speaking from the vantage point of a lifelong banker at the helm of one of America’s largest and most successful banking companies, he shares his thinking about what to keep and what to change, as the industry and its customers face continuous change. For more on U.S. Bank, click here. Enjoy Episode 12 You can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or by opening your favorite podcast app and searching for "Jo Ann Barefoot".

Gregg Steinhafel is chairman of the board, president and chief executive officer of Target Corporation. Target, a Minneapolis-based discount retailer with more than $70 billion in annual revenues, serves guests at 1,778 retail stores in 49 states nationwide, online at Target.com, and by offering credit to qualified guests through branded proprietary credit and debit cards. Steinhafel was named president of Target in 1999 after 20 years with the company in which he held numerous merchandising and operating positions. As president, Steinhafel had companywide responsibility for merchandising, stores, global sourcing, product design and development, presentation, supply chain and Target.com. Steinhafel was named to the board of directors in 2007, became president and chief executive officer in May 2008, and was appointed chairman of the board of directors in January 2009. Steinhafel has been instrumental in developing and promoting Target’s unique corporate culture, in which 365,000 talented and diverse team members collaborate and innovate to make Target a fun and convenient shopping experience, providing access to highly differentiated products at affordable prices and sustaining the company’s legacy of giving and service. Since 1946, the corporation has given 5 percent of its income to non-profit organizations that support the communities where Target does business. Today, that giving equals more than $4 million a week. In 2012, Ethisphere Institute ranked Target one of the “World’s Most Ethical Companies” for the sixth year in a row, and Forbes magazine and the Reputation Institute named Target one of the “World’s Most Reputable Companies.” In addition to serving on Target’s board, Steinhafel also serves on the boards of The Toro Company and TreeHouse, a Minnesota-based non-profit organization. He is a member of the Business Roundtable, Business Council and the Minnesota Business Partnership. In 2010, he was appointed to the Council for the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture. In 2012, Steinhafel began a two-year term as chairman of the board for the Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA). Steinhafel was born in Milwaukee, Wis. He graduated from Carroll University in 1977, and in 1979 he earned a masters of business administration degree from Northwestern University’s Kellogg Graduate School of Management. Steinhafel is married and has three children.

Successful Boards Spawn Ethical Cultures, Tim Erblich, Executive Vice President, Ethisphere Institute; Splitting the CEO & Chairman Roles, Knowledge Partner, Catherine Bromilow, Partner, Corporate Governance Group, PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP

SUMMARY Given that most Canadian workers clock between 35 and 40 hours weekly, it's vital that time be invested in healthy workplaces that care as much about mental, emotional, and social well-being as they do about physical health. In Part 1 of this podcast, join workplace mental health expert Dr. Merv Gilbert, along with WorkSafeBC's Trudi Rondou and Lisa Smith. Together they explore Canada's groundbreaking National Standard for Psychological Health & Safety in the Workplace, the subsequent Case Studies Research Project, regulatory approaches driving the much-needed move toward more supportive workplaces, and the vital roles played by progressive leaders, cultures of compassion, peer support, and training. In Part 2, discover how this “new normal” is rapidly playing out in CLAC (a Canadian labour union) and AECOM (an international infrastructure consulting firm). TAKEAWAYS This podcast will help you understand: The National Standard of Canada for Psychological Health & Safety in the Workplace (voluntary guidelines, tools, and resources) and the subsequent Case Studies Research Report (key findings, promising practices, and supports and barriers to implementation) ‘Promising practices' identified during research project (commitment across the organization, leadership support and involvement, supportive structures and resources, communication and awareness building across all levels and departments, a business case that includes baseline indicators, measurement approaches that track the rate and impact of change, sustained and updated implementation efforts) ‘New normal' vs. ‘old normal' workplaces Awareness of evolving ‘language' (mentally healthy workplaces vs. psychologically healthy workplaces vs. psychologically safe workplaces) Psychosocial issues and solutions Province of BC (WorkSafeBC) perspective and priorities on workplace mental health Importance of psychological injury prevention through policy and education Overview of WorkSafeBC's mental health-related policies and programs Overview of WorkSafeBC's commitment to getting members back to work after being injured Requirements of businesses to help prevent psychological injuries How employers' and workers' responses to mental health challenges have changed over the years What progressive unions and businesses are doing to help build mentally healthy workplaces Return on investment for businesses that do workplace health and safety right Types of stigma existing in the workplace Prevention of bullying and harassment Impacts of COVID-19 on workplace mental health How leadership, culture, peer support, and/or training impact workplace health and safety   SPONSORS WorkSafeBC is a provincial agency in British Columbia, Canada that promotes safe and healthy workplaces for more than 2.3 million workers. Serving more than 230,000 employers, WorkSafeBC's services include education, prevention, compensation and support for injured workers, and no-fault insurance to protect employers and workers. WorkSafeBC is committed to creating a province free from workplace injury or illness. By partnering with workers and employers, WorkSafe helps British Columbians come home from work safe every day. CLAC is the largest independent, multisector, national union in Canada, representing more 60,000 workers in almost every sector of the economy including construction, education, emergency services, healthcare, retail, service, transportation, manufacturing, and more. CLAC has 14 member centres in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and BC, along with 25 active, independent, affiliated locals. Based on values of respect, dignity, and fairness, CLAC is committed to building better lives, better workplaces, and better communities.  AECOM is a global engineering firm whose infrastructure services for public- and private-sector clients include transportation, water, energy, and environmental projects. Employing approximately 87,000 people, AECOM was ranked #1 in Engineering News-Record's ‘2020 Top 200 Environmental Firms,' and named one of Fortune magazine's ‘World's Most Admired Companies' for the sixth consecutive year. Transforming the ways it works through technology and digital platforms, AECOM leads the engineering world in environmental, social, and governance solutions… leading to the Ethisphere Institute naming it one of ‘2021 World's Most Ethical Companies.' THANK YOU for supporting the HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Summit and the HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Podcast.   RESOURCES National Standard of Canada for Psychological Health and Safety in the Workplace  and the resulting Case Studies Research Report Addressing the mental health effects of COVID-19 in the workplace: A guide for workers  Managing the mental health effects of COVID-19 in the workplace: A guide for employers Guarding Minds@Work Antidepressant Skills@Work Psychological Health and Safety: An Action Guide for Employers Mental Health Commission of Canada Canada's Workplace Mental Health Canadian Mental Health Association Government of Canada/Mental health in the workplace Wellness Works Canada Wellness Together Canada: Mental Health and Substance Use Support provides free online resources, tools, apps, and connections to trained volunteers and qualified mental health professionals. Workplace Mental Health Playbook for Business Leaders (CAMH) Workplace Mental Health Research Deloitte research reveals significant return on investment for workplace mental health programs    GUESTS  Dr. Merv Gilbert Dr. Merv Gilbert is a Director at Vancouver Psych Safety Consulting Inc., a consulting group providing services that enable organizations to foster psychologically healthy employees and workplace climates. He has worked as a psychologist for over thirty years in clinical and leadership roles in regional, provincial, and international settings. He is an Adjunct Professor with the Faculty of Health Sciences at Simon Fraser University, and a member of the Steering Committee of American Psychological Association's Psychologically Healthy Workplace Network. Dr. Gilbert is a primary participant in the development, evaluation, and dissemination of resources for workplace mental health, including Guarding Minds@Work, Antidepressant Skills@Work, and Psychological Health and Safety: An Action Guide for Employers. He has published in national and international professional journals, and has presented at a diverse array of forums on the importance of workplace psychological health issues for individuals and organizations. He has consulted with governmental, private, and public-sector organizations. Phone: 604-809-4173 Email: merv@psychsafety.org Website: https://psychhealthandsafety.org LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/merv-gilbert-064a125/ Trudi Rondou Trudi Rondou is a senior manager in Prevention Programs & Performance at WorkSafeBC. She's spent the last decade working with numerous industry and labour groups, to reduce workplace injuries and improve return-to-work outcomes. Over the last three years, Trudi's focus has expanded to include workplace mental health. She currently serves as Chair of the BC First Responders Mental Health Committee. Trudi speaks at conferences and gatherings around the province on worker safety for new and young employees, health and safety management systems, and promoting positive mental health in the workplace. She was the MC for the very successful BC First Responder Mental Health Conference in 2019, and the lead facilitator of the BC First Responders “Building Resilient Workplaces” workshops in 2019. Email: trudi.rondou@worksafebc.com Website: www.worksafebc.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WorkSafeBC/ Twitter: twitter.com/worksafebc Linkedin: Trudi Rondou Lisa Smith Lisa Smith joined WorkSafeBC in 2008 as a Vocational Rehabilitation Consultant and transitioned to a Client Services Manager role in 2010. Presently, she is the Senior Manager of Special Care Services. She has worked with both workers and employers, which has helped expand her perspective on the importance of early intervention for people faced with a mental health challenge. Lisa recognizes the critical supports Special Care Services provides to some of the most seriously injured workers and their families. Her core belief is that we are best equipped to help workers and employers when we are mindful of achieving a healthy life/work balance for the people WorkSafeBC has the honour of serving. Lisa is also committed to a vision of respect and safety in the workplace, and is optimistic that BC's workers and employers are willing to embrace change that will positively influence acceptance of diverse cultures, abilities, and beliefs. Prior to her career at WorkSafeBC, Lisa worked for Social Services in Ontario for 11 years and spent 10 years overseas, teaching English across 5 countries. In 2006, she returned to Canada and began managing a program that transitioned at-risk people with behavioural issues from institutional to residential settings. Lisa's passion for improving outcomes for people with mental health conditions, led to her current undertaking of working on a Master of Psychology Counselling. Email: lisa.smith@worksafebc.com Website: worksafebc.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WorkSafeBC/ Twitter: twitter.com/worksafebc   HOST Jo de Vries is a community education and engagement specialist with 30 years of experience helping local governments in British Columbia connect with their citizens about important sustainability issues. In 2006, she established the Fresh Outlook Foundation (FOF) to “inspire community conversations for sustainable change.” FOF's highly acclaimed events include Building SustainABLE Communities conferences, Reel Change SustainAbility Film Fest, Eco-Blast Kids' Camps, CommUnity Innovation Lab, Breakfast of Champions, and Women 4 SustainAbility. FOF's newest ventures are the HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Summit and HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Podcast. Website: Fresh Outlook Foundation Phone: 250-300-8797   PLAY IT FORWARD The move toward optimal workplace mental health becomes possible as more people learn about the challenges, successes, and opportunities. To that end, please share this podcast with anyone who has an interest or stake in the future of workplace mental health and wellness. FOLLOW US For more information about the Fresh Outlook Foundation (FOF) and our programs and events, visit our website, sign up for our newsletter, and like us on Facebook and Twitter.   HELP US As a charity, FOF relies on support from grants, sponsors, and donors to continue its valuable work. If you benefited from the podcast, please help fund future episodes by making a one-time or monthly donation. Merv Gilbert, Trudi Rondou, Lisa Smith Interview Transcript You can download a pdf of the transcript here. The entire transcript is also found below: INTRO  0:10 Welcome to the HEADS UP! Community Mental Health Podcast. Join our host Jo de Vries with the Fresh Outlook Foundation, as she combines science with storytelling to explore a variety of mental health issues with people from all walks of life. Stay tuned! JO  0:32 Hey, Jo here! Thanks for joining me and my five guests over two episodes as we explore the rapidly changing world of workplace mental health, and how progressive social scientists, governments, unions, and businesses are remodeling the foundations upon which our work lives are built. A big shout out here to WorkSafe BC, CLAC, and AECOM for co-sponsoring these vitally important conversations. In this first episode, you'll meet workplace mental health expert Merv Gilbert, along with Trudy Rondou and Lisa Smith from WorkSafe BC. We'll delve into their trailblazing research and regulation approaches that are raising the bar for workplace mental health and Canada and well beyond. In part two, you'll get to know Quentin Steen with the CLAC labor union and Trevor Amendt from AECOM, an international engineering firm. They'll share their groundbreaking visions and on-the-ground methods for building organizational cultures of compassion. While preparing for this episode, I came across groundbreaking work led by the Mental Health Commission of Canada in partnership with the Canadian Standards Association and the Bureau de Normalization du Quebec. In 2013, they launched the world's first National Standard for Psychological Health and Safety in the Workplace. The standard was developed with input from more than 30 technical committee members representing Canadian corporations, unions, regulators, economists, service providers, and many others. The standard includes voluntary guidelines, tools, and resources that redefine what it means to be a responsible employer. In the move toward building more psychologically healthy, safe, and sustainable work environments, the standard helps organizations envision and implement more progressive frameworks, policies, and practices. Those, in turn, foster more connected, protected, and compassionate workplace cultures. The standard has been embraced by organizations of all sizes, and from all sectors and industries throughout Canada, and served as a template for an upcoming international standard. To help determine the standard's reach and effectiveness, the commission led a three-year follow up Case Study Research Project. It was conducted by Simon Fraser University's Centre for Applied Research in Mental Health and Addiction between 2014 and 2017. Researchers studied more than 40 Canadian employers from a variety of sectors, industries, and geographies who'd implemented the standard. The resulting report outlines key findings, promising practices, and supports and barriers to implementation. As quoted in the report, these diverse trailblazers signed on to benchmark a "new normal." To help us understand project findings and what could be the new normal, I welcome Merv Gilbert, who was co-lead of the Case Study Research Project. Immersed in the work of psychology for more than 40 years, Murphy has spent the better part of the last decade focusing on the psychology of work, or more specifically, what makes a workplace work for all employees. Hi, Merv, great to have you here. MERV  4:19 Hi Jo... it's great to be here. Thanks very much for including me. JO  4:22 My pleasure. So let's start by you telling us why you're so passionate about workplace psychological health and safety, and why it's so important to all of us. MERV  4:34 At a kind of broad level, a lot of the focus on mental health, and I'll say more about language in a minute, has focused on very important issues like serious and persistent mental illness, childhood areas, where I worked a lot and so on. But there was relatively little attention to the fact that, frankly, the majority of folks with a diagnosed or diagnosable mental illness or mental health issues were working or had jobs at any rate, they may be off. And there was little focus on the workplace the extent to which it was actually supportive of their psychological health, mental health, or was detrimental to their health. Sort of broad level, it was an untapped area. At a more personal level, I worked as a director of a psychology department a large hospital for a number of years, and during that time two of my colleagues started to have some performance issues, which is usually the first indicator within a workplace setting. I started to struggle a bit, there were issues, there were some conflicts and so on. We did as an organization some things to try and provide some support. At any rate, both individuals quite independently went off work on, to use a euphemism at the time, stress-related disability, and to my knowledge never worked again. Now, maybe we failed them. Maybe I failed them at some level. But it was a terrible loss. It was needless suffering, and we lost some very skilled and talented individuals. So, it really became apparent we needed to do better. JO  6:03 Most of us have to work or have had to work. So, an obvious question would be is work good for our mental health? Or can it be? MERV  6:13 Absolutely. To paraphrase Sigmund Freud, which every psychologist is obliged to do, the two most important things in life are love and work. Good work provides us with all sorts of support, provides us with a sense of meaning and purpose. It gives us skills and talents, and opportunities for new learning that we wouldn't have otherwise. It gives us an opportunity to interact with others, obviously a little bit different during current circumstances. And it gives us a reason to get up in the morning, get dressed and go someplace else to interact with others outside your immediate family. So, absolutely, good work is good for us in many ways. JO  6:51 Before we talk about the new normal for workplace psychological health, I'm hoping you can help us understand the "old normal," and the state of some workplaces today where little consideration is given to psychological health and safety.  MERV 7:07 Prior to the national standard, for example, and some of the work that we and others around the world have done, workplace health and safety was primarily, almost exclusively, focused on physical health and safety. Appropriately so. Health and safety in various industries and sectors was a key factor, and really wasn't addressed and still needs a lot of work. Workers' compensation boards obviously focus on those kinds of issues, back pain and those kinds of things, but there was very little attention given to psychological injuries, if you will, in that sense. The only exception historically, of a work-related psychological injury was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Since we do not know definitively the cause of the vast majority of mental illnesses, we can't say workplaces are responsible, so, therefore, is not an area where there was attention. So, there wasn't much being done. I think things have improved a great deal in Canada and elsewhere. Part is a function of the standard and other efforts and so on, but there's still some sectors in some areas, that this is still a relatively new concept or remains not addressed. JO  7:42 Based on the work you've done over the last decade, and the work that you did as part of the research project, how would you define a "new normal?" New normal pre-COVID, or new normal current circumstances, little bit different. As I mentioned a moment ago, up until current circumstances, I think there was a lot of improvement, there was organizations who were identifying psychological health and safety officers, that were changing the name of occupational health and safety committees and groups and policies to include psychological [health]. So, that certainly was a good thing. Now, if we want to turn to COVID, and more importantly perhaps for the workplace, the response to COVID and, obviously, the impact it's had on individuals, workplaces... it's very different. People can't connect in the same way as they could before. So that support may not be there. There's a lack of clarity of boundaries and job roles and communication has been challenged in some ways. Certainly work life balance is more elusive than ever with folks working at home. That said, I will... and I say this with caution... for some folks, select groups... particularly more traditional white-collar folks and so on... the capacity, the ability to work from home or work in a more flexible way, may improve their psychological health. It's a mixed bag, but I remain concerned about it and I think we should all be concerned about it at a larger level, is that many of these things that are happening are accentuating the divide between groups. JO  9:49 The research, project findings and voluntary guidelines for successful implementation were based on applied research and then implementation science. For those of us who aren't academics, can you explain what those two things are? What is applied research? MERV  10:09 I think there's a lot of academics that wouldn't necessarily know what it is or necessarily agree with it. Applied research means basically taking up to the dirty world, where you don't have a group of volunteer undergraduate students as your subject pool, for your particular research enterprise, but you're actually dealing with real people who are the ultimate audience or the ultimate target for your work. But the real world, such as it is, is messy... you don't have the same degree of controls. So, applied research is an attempt to work collaboratively with whatever sector, whatever group you want to work with out in the real world. Implementation science is... the policy government, the literature in any field... frankly, littered with publications and research reports, and journals, and so on. Many of the findings from that, however positive, never actually get implemented, or if they are implemented, they're implemented poorly. So, implementation science is one of the factors that lead to successful pickup and sustainability of an effective program, or effective initiative. JO  11:17 So, how could we use implementation science to optimize the benefits of the research that you conducted? MERV  11:26 Great question. I'm being sincere when I say this, I think we can learn from advertising and marketing. Ask people... ask whoever your audience is... if they know about a particular program. What is the best way to make it available to them? What makes it more likely that they will make use of these particular findings, or whatever the initiative or program or policy is. Ask them. Second thing, and this certainly is reflected in the standards well, is to measure two things. Sorry. First one is to know why, and explain very clearly why you're doing what you're doing. If you're doing, for example, a work-from-home kind of initiative, and so on, explain why you're doing it... just don't keep people guessing. And secondly, measure the results... measure a sort of baseline finding... this is where this tradition is now, and then at a appropriate period of time, measure whether you've made a difference. There's uptake and application of whatever your findings are. JO  12:19 So, your project findings and the voluntary guidelines for implementation provide a recipe for success that lists key ingredients needed to create a psychologically healthy and safe workplace. But before we start cooking, though, I'd like to confirm the differences between the following descriptors. And here's where Merv, we talked about language. So, what is the difference between: first, a mentally healthy workplace; second, a psychologically healthy workplace; and third, a psychologically safe workplace? MERV 12:58 Let me start by suggesting a distinction between mental health and psychological health... [these] words are viewed somewhat synonymously. When we collectively, we the media, talks about mental health, we're actually not really talking about mental health. In most cases, we're talking about mental illness and that sense of already kind of changed the conversation. And when we're having those conversations, as I said at the outset, when we talk about mental illness... and frankly, when we see the latest atrocity, wherever it may be... the question comes up, there may be mental health involved. Well, that's not terribly helpful. That just adds to stigma. So, we talk about psychological health. We're talking I think, in a much broader way. We're talking about a continuum, not a categorical approach with a bunch of diagnoses. We're talking about a continuum from struggling and suffering, through to thriving, doing well, positive psychological health. So, it's a different kind of model that is not dependent on traditional mental illness labeling, in that sense. So, I think that makes a very big difference. When we talk about psychologically healthy... and against mentally healthy workplace, if one uses that language... I think, in general terms, is a place where people want to go to work, they believe in what they're doing, they believe they're making a difference. They feel that they have some voice in what is going on in their department or organization, or whatever work they're doing, volunteer or paid. And they feel like the organization, that leadership, and the organization itself, has good or bad to some degree, they will support them in various ways. And if they're struggling with their issues, they will do their best to address them. I think we all kind of know what a psychologically healthy workplace is, whether we work there or whether we're clients or customers. You can almost feel it in the air... you can almost smell it. Are people smiling? Are people saying hello, not because it's corporate policy to greet every customer, but because they actually want to say hello? So, I think it's a vibe in many ways. The "safe" part is interesting, let's say psychologically safe... I think two comments. Now, first of all, as I said at the outset, to some extent this notion with psychological health and safety is, in my opinion, an intentional and, I think, intelligent link to occupational health and safety, which is pretty well established and legislated in policy and practice in some ways. So, it's kind of latching on to that and expanding the concept. Psychological safety, however, is also used in some context to describe an environmental work environment, where people feel free to express their opinions and ideas, without fear of what they perceive as unfair criticism. I get that, but it's, I think, a narrower and somewhat different definition. JO  15:43 So, would it be safe to say then that a psychologically safe workplace would have the needed plans, policies, practices, and programs in place that would then enable and encourage a psychologically healthy workplace?  MERV 15:59 Yes, very definitely.  JO  16:00 So, let's go back to the key ingredients of the research project findings, or what the final report calls "promising practices." Those are intended to help nourish a psychologically healthy and safe workplace. Can you explain a few of them to us? MERV  16:18 Sure, and I should probably clarify, the national standard is, well, it's that... a standard set of guidelines, identifying what the key components of psychologically healthy workplace would look like. What we did when we did the case study project is identify those kind of practices that would lead to more successful and sustainable implementation. And there were a number of those that came up. Certainly one of them that was key, it comes as no surprise, was leadership... meaningful leadership throughout your organization... a large organization, a CEO, or whomever... who kind of gets it, and again, cliche, but who talks the talk. It's not something that it's a checkbox they're checking off... they actually believe in this. And I think that's key. And that that also has to, again, in particularly in large organizations, that has to filter down to every level of management. If a mid-level manager or supervisor... oh, here's another directive from on top, but he or she doesn't get it... it's not gonna be effective. So, it needs to actually cut across all different levels of your organization. The other thing that I think is really important is, in the same vein, having a what's called a business case. A clear rationale with data as to why you are making these changes... why having a psychologically healthy and safe workplace matters to you. And, initially, the argument among... and there may still be in some settings... particularly private-sector settings... maybe affects the bottom line. And indeed, there's all sorts of calculators of lost productivity and increased costs associated with psychological disabilities. And it may be financial or return on investment as well. But certainly for a lot of sectors, a lot of areas... particularly public sector, like hospitals... return on investment isn't really the point. It's not having staff available, the loss of talent, those kind of things. So, being clear as to why a particular organization wants to do these things, and having some data to back it up. JO  18:25 I think, too, getting back to the leadership comment is that you really need to have supportive structures and resources to keep this up over the long term, which is where you're going to see the actual change in culture. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? MERV  18:41 As I mentioned, some organizations, for example, WorkSafe BC, has in the last few years appointed a fairly senior level of management specifically around psychological health and safety. So, it's sort of embedding some of these responsibilities and roles and titles within the organization. And also supporting leaders... no one's immune from this, in many ways, leaders themselves... there's some research suggesting mid-level managers, like get this, quite frankly, can experience as much if not more stress than those that report to them. There needs to be some personal investment in it. And I guess to speak to that, certainly some of the organizations we worked with, when we talked to senior leaders... for many of them, the reason they saw this as a good thing and wanted to introduce it within their organization, was because they'd had some personal experience... family experience... they'd had some experience with someone who was struggling with psychological issues, psychological health issues. So, it takes on a personal note. We see that in all sorts of efforts to address illnesses, be it cancer, heart disease, and so on, people coming from their own experience.  JO  19:48 As a communication specialist I resonate with another promising practice, which is communication and awareness-building across all levels and departments. And I think what this means, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that the messaging not only has to be pertinent to each of the audiences in the organization, but it has to be concise and timely, and particularly, ongoing. You can't just do a one-off campaign and expect people to change their attitudes and their behaviors. MERV  20:21 Absolute agreement at all levels, and it has to be very flexible. Again, I can bring it back to the pandemic response in some ways, we're seeing changing messages and so on. I understand the frustration... confusion with that, but it allows that kind of flexibility. And it also requires humility, not promising something that you can't deliver, in some ways, and being very realistic about what's actually helpful and practical. While many organizations in our study and elsewhere started with a mental health awareness campaign, that's good... awareness is a good thing and does make some strides towards reducing stigma... but you can't stop there, it's got to be a lot more than just awareness. JO  21:04 In most of the interviews that I've been doing for the podcast, we've discussed culture, and whether that be a family culture of mental wellness, or a workplace culture or a community culture. So, I was interested in another promising practice, which is the need to build a corporate-wide culture that respects, reflects, and protects psychological health and safety. So, what does that kind of culture look like? And what's it like to work in a culture like that? MERV  21:41 Great point, and it's certainly the case. and let's not lose sight... this does not mean you put aside your organizational objectives, and so on. These are actually to enhance or fulfill the very purpose of that organization. It's in the practical best interest to any department or group or organization where there's a work environment where people feel valued, and believe in what they're doing, they're willing to work together to achieve success... organizational success, personal success... and again, they feel that the organization, or the department, or their leaders have their back who can support them if there are challenges of some sort. And if I can give an example of that from the past, I find this a very touching and heartwarming example in a lot of ways. Years ago, I was involved in an initiative to recognize and acknowledge psychologically healthy workplaces. And one of the applicants for the British Columbia award was an extended care unit in the interior, actually, I'll name them because they deserve to be recognized... Brookhaven Extended Care. This was some years ago. So, they did a survey and filled out some questionnaires for us. And we did a site visit and what they had done, amongst other things, this is... as you can imagine... a place where mostly the elderly, but there were some younger brain-injured folks, and so on. So, it's a care facility that says their problem, like many healthcare settings, was staffing. It wasn't about return on investment. It was about having sufficient staff to provide the care they needed to do. And that staffing problem was difficult on days for their school holidays. They relied on retired or part time folks, and so on, who were often single parents, or two working parents. So, when school holidays happened, or school breaks or professional days and kids were off work, it was a real challenge if you got a call saying, "Hey, would you mind coming in and doing relief today?" So, what Brookhaven did, and this idea came from their staff… I think from a recreational therapist… to set up a program whereby staff, if they had a child between, say, eight and 12 years old, could bring their child to work. No, it was not a daycare. And that says I'm going to be clear about that. That's important issue, but this is different. That child was then paired up with a resident within the facility and spent the day with him or her hanging out. And I think that's particularly wonderful because... let's say Johnny, who's a precocious nine-year-old, got to spend today with Mr. Smith, and Mr. Smith was a Korean War veteran, and maybe he lost a leg. So,  he entertained Johnny with all sorts of stories about his past experiences. Johnny looked across and saw his mom doing her job, which a lot of kids never see. Mom looked across and saw Johnny being entertained and chatting away. They all had lunch together. It was, forgive the cliche, a win, win, win. Beautiful thing about that, first of all... they identified a problem with staffing. There was now a lineup of staff wanting to work in those days at this particular facility, because it's a cool program. What was the cost? Absolutely nothing. Whereas the leadership, and this is important... there was some initial pushback from, I suspect, the lawyers within this healthcare setting. What if Johnny trips and breaks his nose? And the executive director told lawyers to go away, said that's fine, I'm with it, and so on. The program was a wonderful success and got expanded to, I believe, some other facilities. And this was some years ago, and I didn't hear much about it for a while. And I hope it still continues. But what I did hear a few years ago is that some of the kids that have been involved in program had aged out, they're now teenagers, maybe even young adults. And on their own initiative, they continued the program, kind of a volunteer involvement program within the setting. And I love that story because it identified a specific problem, so it was a measurable problem, actually, staffing. Identified a solution that came from the people who worked there, didn't cost anything, and actually addressed the problem. So, that to me is a concrete example of a collaborative, psychologically healthy workplace practice. JO  25:42 So Merv, if you can put on a CEO hat for a few minutes, did the research findings suggest specific measures of cost versus benefits of a mentally healthy workplace? And if not, what does your experience tell you? MERV  25:58 Great question. And this is a challenge in some ways, because we don't have great quantitative financial indicators. We can look at disability costs, we can look at retraining costs, we can look at recruitment costs, as well, we can look at insurance, WorkSafe costs as well. But those are what are referred to as trailing indicators. That's after the cow has left the barn, if you will, in some ways. Leading indicators are things you measure at the outset. And those are a little softer and harder to track, and may rely more on qualitative kind of information. So, you can pick up through surveys, through initial interviews, those kinds of things. I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done in this area to quantify or qualify, if you will, the kind of measures that you want to look at, and the cliche is, if we don't measure something, you can't know if we have an impact. And that's certainly true here, we have work to do in this area.  JO  26:57 Along that same vein, barriers to successful implementation of the standard listed in your report include inconsistent or limited access to psychological health data. Tell us more about that.  MERV  27:13 It's exactly that kind of thing. It's not having the data that indicates, and certainly for both ethical and practical reasons, I'm not a fan of, for example, doing a survey or a measure of depression amongst all employees. I think ethically, or practically, that can be intrusive and, ethically, what you find you need to do something with it. So, it's going to involve asking employees and new recruits and retirees about their experiences and trying to capture what's important to them, what would be some of the indicators for them. Being realistic about it, if I can go back a little bit to talking about the business case for psychologically healthy workplace, and so on, the expectation amongst many was that companies or organizations would be doing this because it would save them money. And there's lots of consultancies and programs that are trying to sell on those grounds. We found that yeah, that mattered to some of them, some more than others. But in many cases, in fact, the majority of cases, the main reason they were adopting the standard and cared about psychologically workplaces was for a practical reason... i.e., people are struggling, if people are not at work, if people are fighting with one another… it's not good for the organization as a whole. So, practically, it makes sense to look after people. And also ethically it's just the right thing to do, in many ways. JO  28:31 Given the research and your experience, what do you think are the most difficult changes in attitude for leaders to make that needed transition toward a more psychologically healthy and safe workplace? MERV  28:46 Firstly, I think a recognition... and this is happening slowly but is happening... that this is not a fad. This is not flavor of the month. This is not fluffy. This is not a nice thing to do off the side of your desk... like let's raise funds for a particular charity on March 17, whatever the case may be. This is something that is important and will continue to be important. So, it needs to be embedded within your organization. Another thing is really critical, I think, is a recognition that this is a joint issue. This is a collaborative issue between workers and organizations... with employers and employees, I think there's a joint responsibility there. To be a little bit simplistic about it, a construction organization has some obligation to provide safety equipment, to provide a hardhat and so on… the employees, the worker… has responsibility to wear them. So, when you work jointly as opposed to finger pointing, where if it's saying "this is all about toxic workplaces and bad managers, not my responsibility at all," that's not going to help. And, if on the other hand, the perception perhaps unspoken, or the belief unspoken, is "this is all a bunch of wimps, why can't people just suck it up," that's not going to help. You need to work together. JO  29:54 So, were there any research findings that surprised you? MERV  29:58 One of them was one I just mentioned, quite frankly, in fact, that people did this for practical and ethical reasons, not financial reasons. Come back to the comment about leadership. One of the pioneers in Canada some years ago was Michael Wilson, our former finance minister, whose son died by suicide some years ago. This made it personal for him and for his family. And so, he worked hard to make it a corporate issue. What was surprising and encouraging was the fact that people got it and came up with innovative solutions. The thing that was a little bit worrisome, quite frankly... and this isn't intended to be a criticism, but it was a reflection of the level of knowledge and resource at the time... was that there was a tendency, even in well-intentioned organizations, to pick programs or initiatives, if you will, off the shelf. So, not considering whether or not it was a good fit, or whether address their particular needs, whether it was a good fit for the organization. And I do think there's a real need to customize it and adapt it back to your earlier point, in order to make things implemented effectively and sustainable. JO  31:02 That brings me to a question about customization. And you just mentioned that every business is unique... it has a special mandate and special plans and policies and programs and objectives. So, I suppose that while the standard and your research findings give people a general idea of how to make this work, they really to have to be so focused on their individual needs. MERV  31:32 It's a good point... we're all special in our own special way, but we also share a lot in common. So, it's finding a balance. I've heard from some sectors and some organizations where, "we're unique"... "you don't understand"... or "this doesn't apply to us, because we're very unique and different." Well, you're not that different. So there's gonna be some things that are universal, some things are going to be specific, balancing those two and asking people, gathering data... there's more and more tools out there that will do this... about what's the fixed snapshot...  what the organization looks like. And using that information to guide, be it policy or practice, or training, or new positions. JO  32:12 And that brings us to another one of your promising practices, which is measuring approaches that track the rate and impact of change. MERV  32:23 Yes, indeed. And I talked about the importance of measurement... an ongoing kind of measurement. These days, and under the current circumstances, people are being bombarded with surveys and being asked questions. I think there's absolutely merit in that, but one needs to be succinct. You need to be discreet and respectful of people's time and so on, or you're not going to get good information. Back to effective communication, in a sense, but tracking it on an ongoing basis, and then being flexible enough to change your approach if you're getting meaningful data or data suggests you need to change things. JO  32:57 While preparing for this, we talked about how increased stress fosters psychosocial issues that require psychosocial solutions. First, what is a psychosocial issue, and a related psychosocial solution that you can share with us? MERV  33:17 "Psychosocial" basically just reflects psychological... individual and societal/social kinds of factors... be they income equality, be they poverty, be they individual coping. It's a psychological aspect of things, as opposed to the, if you will, physical aspect of things. And what I mean by that, in this context, is I do have some concern. COVID, the pandemic, is indeed a physical risk, if you will, however, the response... our human response, or social response... is a psychological one, a psychosocial response in many ways. And frankly, it therefore requires, I would suggest, psychosocial, psychological kind of responses that we've talked about. The organization can do policies to provide appropriate and meaningful support… communication could actually support people's psychological health. JO  34:07 You conducted your research between 2014 and 2017. Are you aware of any emerging research or any groundbreaking trends or best practices that support this move toward more mentally safe and healthy workplaces? MERV  34:25 I think it's an evolving situation. One thing which I think was pretty cool, and I've seen this in several different sectors, are what's referred to as communities of practice. And that is something coming... I think I was first aware of it in the healthcare context... but it's basically organizations or groups with common features, getting together and learning from one another. There was initiative actually, that came out of I believe, UBC Okanagan in collaboration, I think it was with Waterloo, for a kind of communities of practice for universities and colleges, where they took an opportunity to meet to discuss with one another what they were doing, what was working, what wasn't working. So, learning from one another... I think that's very promising. That's a great thing. And frankly, I think the same thing can happen on a more micro level, within an organization or a group, just creating a space... creating opportunity... for the key people to talk about these issues, and identify possible solutions moving forward. I'll throw a bit of a side comment in this one. And this one was a bit surprising to me too, certainly, when it comes to programs and things like employee assistance programs, and policies and benefits and so on. Those are typically the purview of large organizations, and smaller mom and pop businesses may not have that opportunity. That part may be true in terms of having the money and size to initiative things, but I think smaller organizations actually can be a lot more nimble. The leader or manager, whomever, within a department or a small construction crew, or whatever the case may be, is more likely to be in touch... more immediate contact... with the people he or she is working with, and therefore can come up with things on the fly... perhaps a lot more readily than large organizations that go through a kind of bureaucratic process. That creativity is certainly encouraging. JO  36:17 Have you conducted any other workplace research that you'd like to share? MERV  36:21 Let me add one more comment to what we're saying earlier. The other thing, which I think is promising is, we're now seeing organized labor and contracts pay more attention to psychological safety in the workplace, and a great example is here in British Columbia, where the nurses union in a prior contract, essentially... and the employer agreed with this... mandated adoption of the national standard across of all health care. So, I think that was another positive thing. Back to your question. So, on new things we're doing... certainly my colleague, Dan Bilsker, and I have been working with support from WorkSafe, frankly, with BC Emergency Health Services for about the last three years. And very much what I was saying a moment ago, recognizing that paramedics and dispatchers have unique work circumstances, and it's a unique organization. So, we've started by learning from them what resiliency looked like, what some of the stresses of the job were, what some effective coping methods were. And on the basis of that have created a workbook, a resilient coping workbook, which we're currently in process of disseminating throughout the organization.  JO  37:26 I'm wondering if you can tell us a story about an organization that moved from being perhaps not so focused on psychological health and safety, to embracing a psychological contract that really made a huge difference in the lives of all the people who work there? MERV  37:45 The beautiful example of an organization that took evidence-informed steps... there is a financial institution, I guess I can name them... VanCity (Vancouver City Savings Credit Union). Being a financial institution, they experience robberies. Now, as I said earlier, historically, WorkSafe did not cover psychological injuries, with the exception of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Well, frankly, being robbed or held up within a finance institution can be very traumatic event. So, it actually was data of days lost following a robbery. What VanCity did some years ago, again, I hope the program is still in place was, hey, okay, let's talk to people. What can we do here to actually sort of address this issue? We can't necessarily stop robberies, per se, but what can we do to address the impact psychological impact on staff who've gone through such a troubling, and potentially traumatic event? And what they came up with were a couple of things. First of all, they used and bolstered their employee assistance program, and so on, made that available. If there was a robbery in a particular branch, I believe the CEO, the head of the organization, communicated very quickly with that particular branch and said, "How are you guys doing? Are you okay?" So, leadership, they connected, in some sense said, "Something happened here that wasn't good... is troubling." And then they said, "What can we do? How can we help?" And they put funds and resources aside, said, "Okay, you guys just been through a bad event or troubling event. How can we help? Here's some funds… you want a pizza party, you want tickets to a baseball game, you tell us something that would help, if you will, recover or move forward from a difficult event." Because they had some data on lost time, they could actually measure the impact. And they also were able... circumstantially, back to your question about applied research, frankly...  they couldn't, because it's the real world that said, roll it out to all the organizations. So, those branches that adopt the program, great, but there were also some new branches, new people came on. So, they actually had a control group, and they can compare those branches that didn't have this kind of a program and those that did, and indeed, there was a notable difference between the two, and lost time went down and continued over time. And they were then able to spread the program. So, that one, I don't say they're in bad shape, but they started by identifying a problem, and asked people and then did something about it that was measurable. JO  40:12 I'd like to end our time together with you sharing about what I think is one of the most important pillars in a workplace mental health program… and that's trust. How can leaders best build trust with their employees around psychological health and safety? And how can employees come to trust their leaders? MERV  40:33 Part of my response is, how long has it tried to measure growth, tried to understand what the level of trust is. I did hear about an organization awhile ago, and the CEO talked about a "trust meter," in a sense, and not something that's necessarily quantified, but recognizing that trust is a very fragile entity. Trust is based on a perception, it's a belief, the belief that you as an employer, in this context, are concerned about my interest, and you're going to sincerely try to do what you're saying you're going to do. And that belief is going to be based on past behavior. It's a perception kind of thing, not something you put your finger on. But yes, I absolutely agree is critical to all interactions, not just with respect to psychologically healthy workplaces, but just the effectiveness of an organization, of a group effort. There's a concept that has been floating around for a number of years, which I think is useful...  people talk about "psychological contract" is context between employer and employee. The psychological contract is the implicit mutual reciprocal understanding between the two parties... between the employer and the employee... as to what they expect of one another. As an employee, I expect to be treated fairly. I expect to be compensated fairly. I expect opportunities to learn new things and do new things. I expect my opinion will be listened to. I'm willing to put that extra effort in if need be. As an employer, I expect my employee to do his or her job, to ask questions, to respect leadership, and follow the appropriate practices, and to put your shoulder to the wheel a little bit more, if needed, if there's some kind of crisis or emergency. And that contract is fragile, and very fluid, and perhaps more fluid during a COVID response. But if that contract... unspoken... it's not a job description, it's not a labor contract, per se, it's unspoken... if that's broken on either party, results can be very, very deleterious to either side. JO  42:32 How can that psychological or can that psychological contract be moved from being implicit to explicit?  MERV 42:42 Crazy as it may be, talk about  it... try to take the covert and make it a little bit overt.  Asking supervisors, managers, leaders... asking and meeting in a very authentic way with the people they work with. And asking them how it's going. Are your expectations being met? Are there things that we need to do? So, again, it's going to be communication, it's going to be communication that's succinct, not overwhelming people, that's going to be humble, for lack of better word, not promising things that you can't deliver. And it's gonna be fair, saying that I don't have that information, but here's what I'm going to do to get it. Or, we don't have that service right now, that program right now, that initiative right now, but here's what we might do, or here's what might be available instead. And, particularly, helpful... what is going to be helpful, not just empty language. I do feel concerned about the language especially... it started with the pandemic, was, "We're all in this together." Well, no, we're not. We're all in this, yes, but we're not necessarily together. Many of us… and many organizations and sectors and individuals… have their own circumstances that are very different from others. A little bit of a Kumbaya, we're all in this together, can sound false. If you're a single mom who's lost your job in the hospitality sector, and has a special needs kid at home, your circumstances are very different. So, humility is called for. JO  44:02 So, in closing, Merv, I'd like you to imagine that you're standing in front of a group of 100 CEOs from a variety of sectors and industries. And that you can say one thing to them about workplace mental health, and that they would not only take you seriously, but they would move forward, really being open-minded about potential change within their organizations. What would that one thing be? MERV  44:33 I think it would be, in essence, this attention to the psychological health and psychological well being of organizations under the people who work in them is not a fad... is not going away. It's very real. Work has changed in many ways. Whereas in earlier times, many jobs involved primarily physical labor. Increasingly, jobs these days require psychological labor. We used to talk about "putting your back into it" to describe the physical efforts that were required for doing a lot of work. And perhaps not surprisingly, the majority of workplace injuries and disability were musculoskeletal back injuries. Nowadays, we expect people to "put their head into it," they put their psychological skills and learning and knowledge into a thing. And correspondingly, when that's not supported, you're gonna see psychological injuries. So, this is very real, it's good for the worker, it's good for the workplace. And it is absolutely essential to the resilience and success of the organization. JO  45:36 Marv, I understand that you're involved in some research around trust. Can you tell us what that's all about? MERV  45:43 Years ago, actually, before the creation of standard, actually, we created a tool called Guarding Minds at Work, which has had a lot of uptake... it measures, psychosocial risks in the workplace. It's a survey-based tool and we have noticed... and along with another colleague, Dr. Graham Lowe... that trust, as you pointed out, is really a key ingredient. But we need to try and measure it to understand it. So, what we did is use our existing data around this Guarding Minds at Work tool and looked at what kind of factors, what kind of considerations, were related to a basic question, "Do employers and employees trust one another?" And they come across things that we've talked about, like communication, and honesty, and sincerity, and practicality, and culture. And we've created a tool called the Trust Building Survey, that we're currently in the process of informing a variety of groups in Canada and elsewhere about this tool to trial it… to use it. Frankly, as a snapshot, it's not long, it's about a 20-item, survey, but take a snapshot of where an organization is at at various points. And I think because things are so fluid with the world in general, and the pandemic response, in particular, it is very worthwhile for organizations and departments to take that snapshot at various points over time to try and capture an evolving and ever-shifting nature of the situation. JO  47:05 Is that opportunity to be involved in the research still open to organizations? MERV  47:12 Absolutely. Yes, we welcome inquiries from various groups, organizations that want to help us use this tool, apply this tool within your organization. So, we can all learn about trust as it evolves over time. JO  47:25 And how would people connect with you? MERV  47:27 They can connect through my email, my email is Merv... m-e-r-v at p-s-y-c-h-s-a-f-e-t-y dot org.  JO  47:39 Well, that's amazing. I think that trust in the workplace is a huge issue. And maybe a little further on into your research, we can do a whole episode on that. MERV  47:49 Terrific, that would be wonderful. JO  47:51 That's amazing. Merv, thanks so much for kicking off part one of this episode. MERV  47:57 Absolute pleasure. And I really appreciate the you're paying attention this issue and spreading the word, as you will… we've come a long way, but we've got a long way to go. JO  48:05 My pleasure. Thanks again. I'm excited because you're wise and wide ranging insights...  after 40 years of working in this field... I think they set the stage perfectly from my next conversation with Trudy Rondou and Lisa Smith from WorkSafe BC, which is a progressive provincial government agency in British Columbia, Canada. But before we get to that, listeners can visit the Mental Health Commission of Canada's website at m-h-c-c dot c-a to learn more about the National Standard of Canada for Psychological Health and Safety in the Workplace, the subsequent Case Studies Research Project, and a variety of tools to help organizations meet their goals. As mentioned earlier, you can connect with Merv about the research project or other workplace mental health issues at m-e-r-v at p-s-y-c-h-s-a-f-e-t-y dot org. Now to help us get a feel for what's happening with workplace mental health from a provincial perspective, I'm here with WorkSafe BC's Trudy Rondou and Lisa Smith. WorkSafe BC promotes safe and healthy workplaces for about 230,000 employers and more than 2.3 million workers. Its services include education, prevention, compensation and support for injured workers and no-fault insurance to protect both employers and workers. Trudy, let's start with you. First of all, thanks so much for being here. TRUDI  49:54 Thank you... I'm really pleased to be here. This is the topic I'm pretty passionate about, so I'm excited to be involved. JO  49:59 WorkSafe BC's vision is… British Columbians free from workplace injury, disease and death. To that end, there's a strong focus on prevention through policy and education. What does that look like in your world as senior manager of prevention programs? And why are you so motivated to help? TRUDI  50:20 As senior manager now in prevention programs, I actually have a new department called Mental Health and Psychological Safety. And while WorkSafe BC has been dealing with mental health from a claims and compensation point of view for a number of years now, this is sort of the start of the shift to looking at mental health from a preventative perspective. So, we're really looking at what we can be doing with workers and employers to try to prevent those mental health injuries from happening. JO  50:49 And again, speaking to your motivation? TRUDI  50:52 Well, I guess I'm passionate because I do believe in the sense of prevention. I don't think that we have to wait for a mental health injury to occur before we can help treat. I think that early intervention has shown lots of signs of assisting people and mitigating their mental health issues.JO  51:08 So, it sounds like an upstream approach to health care is applicable in your industry as well. TRUDI  51:15 Absolutely. JO  51:17 What does WorkSafe BC require of employers to help prevent psychological injuries? TRUDI  51:24 We want businesses out there to recognize that psychological health is just as important as physical health. And I think that's a real mind shift for employers. Employers in the province have been dealing with the physical health and safety for years, and they're used to that. But recognizing now that psychological health of the workplace is equally as important is a new shift. And I think along with that, having an employer recognize that they can play a proactive role in psychological health... again, going back to that notion that it's not just about treatment. There are proactive upfront things that can be done. And we also want employers to implement policies and programs that support mental health in the workplace. JO  52:03 Building on that theme of proactivity. What are some of the emerging best practices employers are using? TRUDI  52:11 Employers who represent best practices always have leadership champions. So, it starts at the top and they have people who are in senior roles, who really advocate for mental health and normalize mental health as being part of a workplace conversation. We want employers who have policies in place... so, recognizing that any behavior that goes contrary to mental health is not allowed in the workplace... things such as bullying and harassment are not allowed in the workplace. And policies that are going to support proactive and positive mental health. Anti-stigma campaigns have been proven to be really successful, because there is a lot of stigma around mental health. And I think we'll talk a little bit about that later, but some of these campaigns that individual employers have done, again, trying to normalize mental health and make it part of the regular conversation. Training and education are certainly important. And that is training and things such as mental health literacy so people understand how to have the conversation, as well as coping skills so people can understand what they're feeling in times of stress. What are some resources that they can fall on themselves? What are some coping skills that they can have? And what kind of resources and supports are available? Many employers have informed Employee and Family Assistance Programs or ESAP programs, but in a lot of cases, employees aren't always aware of the supports that are offered through those programs. So, those are some of the things that progressive businesses are really doing to help.  JO  53:38 Do you have a specific example of an employer who has done a really good job with this? TRUDI  53:45 Yes, I can certainly think of an employer... it's actually a first responder organization... and they recognize the importance of the mental health of their workers. And if you think of first responders, they're exposed to traumas all the time in their job... they see and hear things that are quite exceptional that regular workplaces, and regular workers, don't see. And so, this employer wanted to implement everything they could, so they had leadership champions step forward. They created a very robust peer support program so that workers had somebody that they could relate to, to talk to. And they even went so far as to start hosting family nights, so they recognize the importance of first responder families. And they hosted these family nights so that they could get the first responders and their families together to talk about what mental health supports were available. JO  54:39 So, what is the return on investment for businesses that are doing this health and safety right? TRUDI  54:46 That's really interesting. There has been some research done recently by Deloitte, looking at the return on investment for mental health programs. So these aren't just health and safety programs. These are specific to mental health and they actually found there was a return on investment of about $1.60 to $2.20. So, for every dollar you were investing in your mental health program, you were getting a return of about $1.60 to $2.20. And you were seeing that return on things like less absenteeism, less workplace claims, and more presenteeism for people who are working. That report really focused on the fact that we should invest in proactive programs that promote positive mental health, in addition to treatment. So again, that report reinforced this messaging around prevention, and promoting positiv