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In the wake of corporate scandals, Provision 29 of the UK Corporate Governance Code has been revamped with implications for risk management and internal controls in many UK companies. With new rules set to apply for financial periods beginning on or after 1 January 2026, this podcast looks at how companies can prepare. In today’s episode Ashurst’s Will Chalk is joined by two people who were closely involved in industry consultations relating to the UK Corporate Governance Code; Ashurst risk expert Nisha Sanghani and ICAEW governance lead Peter van Veen. They consider what changes to Provision 29 will mean for regulated organisations in the UK. The episode includes a summary of what the new requirements involve and a practical road map for compliance, covering areas of greatest urgency, likely judgment calls, and the possible impacts for assurance. The trio also debate whether the description “Sarbanes-Oxley via the back door” is an apt one for revised Provision 29. To listen and subscribe to this podcast, search for ‘Ashurst Legal Outlook’ on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or your favourite podcast player. And to find out more about the full range of Ashurst podcasts, visit ashurst.com/podcasts. The information provided is not intended to be a comprehensive review of all developments in the law and practice, or to cover all aspects of those referred to. Listeners should take legal advice before applying it to specific issues or transactions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   Justin and his guest, Jennifer Pack, RIMS 2025 Risk Manager of the Year, discuss her career and achievements, including Hyatt's VP of Risk Management. Jennifer describes how her membership in the RIMS Chicago Chapter and service on the Board impacted her career.   Jennifer helped align Hyatt's risk strategies with its evolving business model to ensure resilience in today's complex environment. Leading nearly 40 professionals, Jennifer's leadership and innovative risk solutions have helped strengthen Hyatt's risk management framework, to proactively identify risks and develop strategies to address them. Jennifer successfully redesigned and centralized Hyatt's Short-Term, Long-Term Disability, and Workers' Compensation programs, reducing manual processing by up to 80,000 hours, improving compliance, and reducing legal exposure. It is linked to millions of dollars in savings. Under her leadership, Hyatt's risk management team is overhauling Hyatt Hotels' fire safety with the first-of-its-kind Fire Life Safety Compliance and Governance Program, setting a standard for the organization and industry. The initiative includes the implementation of new technology, as well as auditing the 1,450 Hyatt hotels in 79 countries. Jennifer is a beloved mentor who has had an impact on many careers. She continues to demonstrate her commitment to advancing the risk management profession as an active member of the RIMS Chicago Chapter.   Jennifer's innovations may inspire your work for your organization's ERM program. Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. It is one of my favorite episodes to produce, with the Risk Manager of the Year. This year's honoree is Jennifer Pack, Hyatt's Vice President of Risk Management. We will talk about her success in ERM, captives, and more. [:48] RIMS-CRMP Workshops! RIMS is co-hosting an intensive four-day program which is your gateway to achieving two prestigious certifications, the DRI Certified Business Continuity Professional (CBCP) and the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP). [1:08] This workshop will be held from May 19th through the 22nd in collaboration with DRI International. Links to these courses can be found through the Certification page of RIMS.org and this episode's show notes. [1:23] Virtual Workshops! On June 12th, Pat Saporito will host “Managing Data for ERM” and she will return on June 26th to present the very popular new course, “Generative AI for Risk Management”. [1:40] A link to the full schedule of virtual workshops can be found on the RIMS.org/education and RIMS.org/education/online-learning pages. A link is also in this episode's show notes. [1:51] We're at RISKWORLD this week but preparations are already underway for the RIMS ERM Conference 2025 on November 17th and 18th in Seattle, Washington. RIMS is accepting educational session submissions through May 20th. [2:08] The best submissions will address current and future challenges facing ERM practitioners as well as provide leading practices and concrete takeaways for a diverse audience of risk professionals from industries or organizations of varied sizes, disciplines, functions, and roles. [2:26] These include officers, leaders, managers, and students. The link to the submission form is in this episode's show notes. [2:35] While you are at RISKWORLD, be sure to take away some inspirado and channel it into an educational session submission for the RIMS ERM Conference 2025. Of course, mark your calendars for November 17th and 18th and I'll be sure to alert you when registration opens. [2:55] The RIMS Risk Manager of the Year Program aims to raise the profile of the risk profession and the outstanding programs the honorees have implemented within their organizations. [3:04] The award was created in 1977 and the Risk Management Honor Roll was added in 1981. The 2025 RIMS Risk Manager of the Year is Jennifer Pack of Hyatt. [3:16] As VP of Risk Management, Jennifer has transformed risk management at Hyatt, embedding a culture that has provided a launchpad for organizational success. Her innovations in captive management also earned her this award. [3:28] Jennifer is a long-standing member of the RIMS Chicago Chapter and an all-around fantastic professional. Her profile will soon appear in the Awards Edition of RIMS Risk Management magazine. [3:40] Jennifer will receive the award on May 5th at 4:00 p.m., on the main stage at RISKWORLD. We're going to get to know her a little bit now. We'll talk ERM, captives, Chicago RIMS, hotel and hospitality, and more. [3:57] Interview! RIMS 2025 Risk Manager of the Year, Jennifer Pack, welcome to RIMScast!  [4:34] Jennifer has been at Hyatt, for going on 18 years. She can stay at any hotel she would like! [5:03] Some people like to leave their jobs every few years for a new company and skills. Jennifer's career at Hyatt has been an adventure! She hasn't been doing the same thing for 18 years. Every couple of years, she gets new roles and responsibilities. She's constantly learning. [5:24] She has a foundation of knowing whom to go to, what the systems are, and how to get things done. There's a base familiarity but with some excitement and learning opportunities. [5:36] If the feeling of being able to learn and grow ever stops, Jennifer will think about leaving. She's enjoying her time. It seems like she's working or a new company all the time. They're transforming. They're changing. The risk landscape is changing. There's never a dull moment. [5:56] Justin feels the same way about working at RIMS! He started as a writer but then got these responsibilities and they took on sort of a life of their own and attracted more of an audience. It's more work, but it's more fun and rewarding. [6:25] Jennifer joined Hyatt in a group called Compliance and Controls. She was hired to set up their Sarbanes-Oxley department. In reaction to the financial crisis after the downfall of Arthur Andersen and Enron, Sarbanes-Oxley was born and Jennifer became an expert on it. [6:58] Jennifer launched that group and then it was moved into Internal Audit where they were exposed to a lot more people and systems. Jennifer had the opportunity to backfill someone in the Risk Management department and never left. She's been in the risk function for 15 years. [7:30] When Jennifer joined the risk group it had seven risk practitioners in the corporate office. There were five or six Occupational Health Managers in the field, helping with Workers' Compensation and occupational safety. There are over 35 full-time members now. [8:09] They've taken on new roles in the 15 years: physical security, business resilience, fire life safety compliance, and other health and safety functions in the company. They could probably use a few more people but they're doing well. [8:38] The risk profile of the company has changed. The geopolitical risk profile of the world has changed. Hyatt's offerings have changed. They used to be mostly business, group, and convention, and now they lean into leisure, travel, and all-inclusive, which have different risks. [9:16] Hyatt has tripled its resort rooms and quintupled its lifestyle rooms since 2017. A lifestyle room is about meeting clientele where they are. Millennials want to travel the world and experience the environment, such as an attached nightclub in Miami or New York. [9:55] They're unconventional hotels with the framework of a well-known brand, where guests have comfort, safety, security, cybersecurity, and loyalty points while feeling like they're in a niche hotel with great and different experiences. It feels like a boutique, attached to the brand. [11:06] Social inflation is a risk. Liability insurance has gone up because claim payouts have gone up tremendously. Claim attorneys are targeting hospitality. [12:12] Hyatt is thinking globally about health, safety, and security, making sure policies are locked down, training is locked down, and people know how to report an incident, and when to report it. How do you de-escalate an incident to win the guest back? [12:36] Saying, “I'm sorry that happened to you. Here are some points. We care about you,” reinforcing that, versus saying, “Let my insurance company deal with it.” That's the last thing we want. If our guests had a bad incident, they had a bad experience. [12:51] Especially if you're traveling on leisure with your family, you want to know that you'll be taken care of. There's an expectation that you're going to be safe and secure. Hyatt wants to make sure to bring the level of care to them that they deserve. [13:07] Hyatt is working on the front end to retrain employees on ramping up safety and security measures and knowing how to respond when an incident happens. [13:18] Then, if it gets into the claims section, the claims management team has new robust processes to manage claims to drive down exposure. On the insurance procurement side, Hyatt is leaning into its captive to take on much higher retention in-house. [14:09] Hyatt is asking leadership in the field to bring education and awareness to the importance of risk management, what's at risk, and what the current legal environment is, and overlay that with wanting to care for people. Hyatt cares about the guest experience. [14:43] This is a macro-level environment. If you have litigation system abuse across the country, what are insurers doing about it? What are brokers doing about it? What are corporations doing about it? [14:56] Jennifer gets with her peers in the hospitality industry, working in their respective associations, to address these issues at the state and federal levels, change laws, and push for tort reform and disclosures of litigation funding. [15:28] Hyatt has partnered with the American Lodging and Hospitality Association and is considering partnering with insurance companies. You can't just hope someone else will take care of the problem. It's a much bigger problem that we all need to address. [16:06] Justin points out that third-party litigation funding is one of the top initiatives and campaigns for RIMS this year. RIMS recently had the Legislative Summit in Washington, D.C., where third-party litigation funding was a top priority. It was a top RIMS talking point on the Hill. [16:38] Jennifer says Hyatt and the hospitality industry are in with RIMS on the issue of third-party litigation funding. If it continues, guests are going to have to pay more for a stay and for the experiences they want to have as rising risk costs are passed to the consumers. [17:04] Plug Time! RIMS Webinars! We are back on May 22nd, with GRC, a TÜV SÜD Company, and their newest session, “Asset Valuations in 2025: Managing Tariffs, Inflation, and Rising Insurance Scrutiny”. [17:22] On May 29th, Origami Risk returns to present “Strategic Risk Financing in an Unstable Economy: Leveraging Technology for Efficiency and Cost Reduction”. On June 5th, Zywave joins us to discuss “Today's Escalating Risk Trajectory: What's the Cause and What's the Solution?” [17:44] More webinars will be announced soon and added to the RIMS.org/Webinars page. Go there to register. Registration is complimentary for RIMS members. [17:55] Spencer's goal to help build a talent pipeline of risk management and insurance professionals is achieved, in part, by its collaboration with risk management and insurance educators across the U.S. and Canada. [18:16] Since 2010, Spencer has awarded over $3.3 million in General Grants to support over 130 student-centered experiential learning initiatives at universities and RMI non-profits. Spencer's 2026 application process is now open through July 30th, 2025. [18:36] General Grant awardees are typically notified at the end of October. Learn more about Spencer's General Grants through the Programs tab of SpencerEd.org. [18:46] On the 7th of October, the New Jersey RIMS Chapter will return to the beautiful Fiddler's Elbow Country Club in Bedminster, New Jersey for their Annual Charity Golf/Pickleball Event. [18:59] Registration is open and the event proceeds are used to fund the chapter's Spencer and Kids' Chance Scholarships. It was the filming location for the upcoming movie sequel Happy Gilmore 2. For more information, and to register, please NewJersey.RIMS.org. [19:21] Let's Return to My Interview with RIMS 2025 Risk Manager of the Year, Jennifer Pack! [19:47] Hyatt put a captive in place in 2013. Back then, Hyatt had huge insurance cost swings year-on-year that they couldn't forecast. It created a lot of “noise” on the balance sheet. They originally put the captive in place to take away that noise and remove wild cost volatility. [20:38] Over time, Hyatt started to see success and build up a surplus they saw the value of a captive, especially as market conditions changed. They brought in additional forms of insurance coverage with traditional deductible buy-downs with workers' compensation and GL. [21:04] They started to see the surplus build up and they were able to give some of the surplus back to the participants and drive down their premium cost. [21:14] In the pandemic, the hospitality business came to a halt. Before the pandemic, Hyatt's average occupancy around the world was over 75%. In April 2020, it dropped to 6%. The owners of Hyatt were under extreme pressure. [21:43] Jennifer had an extra surplus in the captive and was able to give relief to the owners and to the company in that year and the next couple of years. Claim volume went down due to lower occupancy. Hyatt used some of that cash to fund large acquisitions. [22:19] That's when Hyatt saw social inflation in gaps in coverage. There was no coverage for a pandemic. Through the captive, Jennifer was able to offer that coverage to the owners. She offered wages and hours insurance to the owners. [22:48] Coming out of COVID-19, with the impact of social inflation, the captive took on larger line sizes and larger layers in its umbrella tower. They had some acquisitions in cyber. They bought the Apple Leisure Group. [23:36] In a lot of those services, Hyatt isn't providing the service but is almost like a travel agent, connecting you to the hotel, airline, or excursion. If there is an incident, the third party has the coverage. Hyatt has exposure for connecting you to the service. [24:01] Hyatt had to get creative with coverage for these new exposures, working with broker partners to fill those gaps. They did it largely with the captive, buying time until they could get a traditional product in place. [24:17] With the captive, Hyatt filled gaps, helped grow the business, and used it as a business enabler, providing cash, relief to owners, and coverage that may not have been commercially available, either to buy time or permanently fill a gap. It's been fun! [24:53] Jennifer regularly changes which hat she wears. As the captive President, she has to look at what Hyatt is doing to protect the captive and make sure it's adequately funded and complies with regulations. From a governance perspective, is Hyatt doing the right things? [25:21] Jennifer regularly brings in third-party experts to check the captive. Jennifer's decisions as President of the captive are through the lens of the captive and as the owner of this business, what they are doing to grow revenues, manage expenses, and keep an adequate surplus. [25:44] The captive doesn't run razor-thin. To have a forward-looking approach, it needs to have an adequate surplus, reserves, and cash in the captive. They're very conservative in protecting it. [26:06] From a corporate risk management perspective, when Hyatt needs to buy insurance, Jennifer asks, can we buy it from the captive? She sometimes has tough conversations with Hyatt about borrowing versus driving up investment income to protect everyone's interests. [26:37] Jennifer has to keep top-of-mind, which lens she's looking through, whether President of the Captive or Hyatt Vice President of Risk Management. She wears two hats, managing all the key stakeholders' needs and wants. [27:17] Some of the stakeholders are Hyatt, third-party owners, the corporation itself, and guests and colleagues with short-term and long-term disability and medical, adding value for the benefits team so they don't have to go to third parties for that insurance. [28:27] As the Captive President, Jennifer is looking at loss and expense ratios, reserve to operating ratios, surplus to premiums, and surplus to reserves, making sure that they're within the set ratios. They shoot for three to one. Anything above that number can go to participants. [29:09] They won't go below three to one so they are capitalized for future unexpected losses or to back up future business growth. Jennifer believes Hyatt is unique in having those ratios and guards in place. Jennifer is looking forward to future needs. [30:15] The captive evaluates from time to time whether to change the ratios to five to one or four to one. In the liability space, claims are growing. Some of the demands are wild and the settlements reached or not reached are eye-opening! [30:46] Jennifer explains the global risk management claims software that is now also used for incident reporting to the risk department. They look at data from all incidents and are seeing a trend and looking to what could come down the pike and new coverages they may need to offer. [31:44] The technology is supporting the department and overall risk management strategy. The captive is benefiting through better data on what's happening out there so they won't get blindsided by unusual trends that aren't yet seen in the claims. [32:19] Technology helps the captive to build out platforms to manage compliance, safety, and security in the environment. [32:28] The more data insights and comfort Jennifer has over the Health, Safety, and Security diagnostic at each property, region, and the globe, and overlays those with risk assessments Hyatt does, the more comfort she can get to take on more risks knowledgeably in the captive. [33:15] RIMS Plug! The first of hopefully many RIMS Texas Regional Conferences will be held in San Antonio from August 4th through the 6th, 2025. This groundbreaking event is set to unite the Texas RIMS Chapters and welcome risk management professionals from around the world. [33:34] Guess what, folks! Registration is now open! The advance rate is available through May 16th. A link is in this episode's show notes. You can also visit the Events page of RIMS.org to register. We look forward to seeing you in Texas! [33:50] Let's Conclude Our Interview with RIMS 2025 Risk Manager of the Year, Jennifer Pack! [34:04] Jennifer Pack is the RIMS Risk Manager of the Year 2025 and she has been such a wonderful guest. This episode is coming out the morning of the awards. We will see her onstage, for anyone who has the privilege of being there. [34:19] Jennifer is honored, excited, and a little nervous to be onstage at RISKWORLD for the award. A lot of the RIMS Chicago members will be there. Jennifer has a wonderful Chicago-based team that will be there. Jennifer's parents and her husband are coming. [36:26] Jennifer says moving up the ranks at Hyatt and RIMS Chicago has been a fun and wild ride! The growth in her career, switching from being a Public Accountant to Auditor to Risk Manager has been fun with a lot of learning. [36:54] Jennifer tries to lead and grow with optimism, fun, and humor. She's been able to grow and develop a team under her. It's been a really interesting 18-year adventure. [37:11] Once Jennifer was exposed to RIMS, it opened her eyes to the wealth of resources, friendship, collaboration, and knowledge-sharing. It's been such an excellent experience for her. She couldn't be prouder of the Chicago Chapter and the great things they do to develop talent.  [37:43] Jennifer says since COVID-19, it's been wonderful to see the number of people who attend the outings and forums. It's great to have such a great community and seeing them regularly is impactful. [38:06] Jennifer is Risk Manager of the Year. The Rising Star is Megan Smalter, who has had a wonderful time with the Chicago Chapter before moving to New York. In her role on the RIMS Chicago Chapter Board, and when she ran the Golf Outing, Jennifer has worked with Megan. [38:45] Julie Bean won the Heart of RIMS Award recently. Jennifer says it's great to have the bench of expertise of long-standing members in the Chicago Chapter. Jennifer learned from them personally and in professional settings. They're great for sharing ideas and working with. [39:36] Jennifer also mentioned Theresa Severson who was RIMS 2023 Risk Manager of the Year, with Kite Realty. There's a lot of talent and deep risk knowledge in the RIMS Chicago Chapter. There's a genuine camaraderie.  [40:30] Jennifer looks ahead to see companies leaning into the concept of full risk management philosophy. Risk management is so much more than just the insurance buyers. [40:45] Risk management is “How can we bring a risk management mindset to our enterprises? How can we be business enablers? How can we leverage the wealth of data and information that comes through our department to enable mindful growth in the business?” [41:05] It's “How can we help with ESG efforts, especially with the reporting? How can we mitigate risks to the company and not just to our financial tools of insurance? What can we do in loss prevention or mitigation?” [41:26] “What can we do in claims management with more expertise, as things heat up on the litigation side with social inflation and nuclear claims?” Jennifer sees Hyatt and other companies taking more risks in the captive's or balance sheet to offset what's happening.” [42:10] Risk managers are going to have to articulate that and bring solutions to the forefront of their companies. Jennifer is excited about the future. She's looking forward to launching and rolling out more technology solutions as Hyatt leverages all its data. [42:57] Jennifer knows her team can have a lot of positive impact on the organization and she's excited about it. [43:08] Special thanks and congratulations again to Jennifer Pack, the RIMS 2025 Risk Manager of the Year. A link to RISKWORLD coverage is in this episode's show notes via the Show Daily. [43:20] That will update this episode's show notes with a link to the RIMS Risk Management Magazine coverage in our special Awards Edition. More honorees from RISKWORLD will join us here on RIMScast soon. [43:35] Plug Time! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in the show notes. [44:03] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them! Contact pd@rims.org for more information. [44:21] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information. [44:38] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [44:55] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [45:09] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. You can email Justin at Content@RIMS.org. [45:17] Thank you all for your continued support and engagement on social media channels! We appreciate all your kind words. Listen every week! Stay safe!   Links: RIMS Texas Regional 2025 — August 3‒5 | Advance registration rates now open. ERM Conference 2025 — Call for Submissions (Through May 20) RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Risk Management magazine RIMS Now The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center Spencer Educational Foundation — General Grants 2026 — Application Dates Press Release: “RIMS Risk Manager of the Year Goes to Hyatt's Jennifer Pack” RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars “Asset Valuations in 2025: Managing Tariffs, Inflation, and Rising Insurance Scrutiny” | Sponsored by GRC, a TÜV SÜD Company | May 22, 2025 “Strategic Risk Financing in an Unstable Economy: Leveraging Technology for Efficiency and Cost Reduction” | Sponsored by Origami Risk | May 29, 2025 “Today's Escalating Risk Trajectory: What's the Cause & What's the Solution?” | Sponsored by Zywave | June 5, 2025   Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Prep Virtual Workshops: CBCP & RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Virtual Bootcamp: “Mastering Business Continuity & Risk Management” | May 19‒22, 2025 | In Collaboration with DRI International Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule “Managing Data for ERM” | June 12 | Instructor: Pat Saporito  “Generative AI for Risk Management” | June 26 | Instructor: Pat Saporito See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops RIMS-CRMP Prep Workshops   Related RIMScast Episodes: “Risk and Leadership Patterns with Super Bowl Champion Ryan Harris” (RISKWORLD 2025 Keynote) “(Re)Humanizing Leadership in Risk Management with Holly Ransom” “Risk and Relatability with Rachel DeAlto” “RIMS Risk Manager of the Year, Steve Robles, Los Angeles County” (2024)   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: “The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience” | Sponsored by AXA XL (New!) “Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance” | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company “Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs” | Sponsored by Zurich “Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding” | Sponsored by Zurich “What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings” | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog “Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping” | Sponsored by Medcor “Risk Management in a Changing World: A Deep Dive into AXA's 2024 Future Risks Report” | Sponsored by AXA XL “How Insurance Builds Resilience Against An Active Assailant Attack” | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog “Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips” | Sponsored by Alliant “RIMS Innovation with Archer” | Sponsored by Archer “Navigating Commercial Property Risks with Captives” | Sponsored by Zurich “Breaking Down Silos: AXA XL's New Approach to Casualty Insurance” | Sponsored by AXA XL “Weathering Today's Property Claims Management Challenges” | Sponsored by AXA XL “Storm Prep 2024: The Growing Impact of Convective Storms and Hail” | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company “Partnering Against Cyberrisk” | Sponsored by AXA XL “Harnessing the Power of Data and Analytics for Effective Risk Management” | Sponsored by Marsh “Accident Prevention — The Winning Formula For Construction and Insurance” | Sponsored by Otoos “Platinum Protection: Underwriting and Risk Engineering's Role in Protecting Commercial Properties” | Sponsored by AXA XL “Elevating RMIS — The Archer Way” | Sponsored by Archer   RIMS Publications, Content, and Links: RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community! RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Kristen Peed!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Jennifer Pack, VP of Global Risk Management, Hyatt Corporation   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.  

“The Association for Financial Professionals (AFP) is a non-for-profit with a really simple mission, which makes it really easy for me to wake up and know what I'm doing every day,” says Bryan Lapidus, Director, FP&A Practice at the Association for Financial Professionals. “We exist for the success of the corporate finance and treasury professionals. FPAC, our certified corporate FP&A certification has been in the market for about 11 years now and 5,000 people have earned it in more than 80 countries.” Returning guest Lapidus joins Glenn Hopper  as they discuss the climate for FP&A including: Evolution of FP&A  and AI  Certificates vs Certification  Why business school doesn't prepare you for FP&A roles The impact of Sarbanes-Oxley on changing the CFO role  Why you need different CFOs at various stages of a company lifecycle  Why FP&A professionals are so hirable and promotable How to become CFO from an FP&A role  

Send us a textDebbie Reynolds “The Data Diva” talks to Marko Dinic, CEO of Jatheon Technologies, Inc. We discuss the evolving landscape of data archiving, compliance, and artificial intelligence. Marko shares his extensive experience in the archiving space, spanning over two decades, and highlights how regulatory frameworks like Sarbanes-Oxley, GDPR, and CCPA have shaped data retention practices across industries. He explains the complexities of managing data archiving, including challenges with deletion, deduplication, and maintaining audit logs while complying with privacy laws. The conversation explores the growing tension between data retention requirements and privacy mandates, especially in light of AI advancements.Marko emphasizes how AI-driven systems are transforming corporate data management, creating both opportunities and new legal and compliance concerns. The discussion touches on the evolution of data archiving from being a compliance necessity to becoming a strategic corporate asset. Laws such as Sarbanes-Oxley, GDPR, and CCPA significantly impact how organizations must retain and manage data while balancing individuals' right to be forgotten. AI complicates data deletion processes, raising new privacy risks as organizations increasingly rely on automated compliance workflows. The growing importance of archiving systems as enterprise-wide data hubs underscores their role in providing AI-driven insights while ensuring regulatory adherence.As AI continues to reshape the business landscape, organizations must rethink data governance strategies to navigate compliance challenges. AI models introduce complexities in legal discovery and searchability, requiring transparency in how AI-generated outputs are produced and stored. With companies leaning more heavily on archiving to manage the vast amounts of data being generated, data governance, compliance, and privacy concerns will remain central to business strategy. The integration of AI into archiving systems represents both an opportunity and a challenge, requiring careful consideration of legal, ethical, and technological factors to maintain compliance and data integrity.Support the show

In this episode of the Identity at the Center Podcast, hosts Jeff and Jim delve into the intricacies of compliance, governance, and cybersecurity with special guest and colleague Kia Smith, a director in RSM's Security and Privacy Risk Consulting practice. They explore the foundational role of compliance activities such as Sarbanes-Oxley, the crucial need to align governance with security, and the rising complexity of regulatory environments driven by third-party dependencies. Kia provides valuable insights into the Cybersecurity Maturity Model Certification (CMMC) and its widespread implications for industries beyond defense. The discussion also touches upon the relevance of legal language in contracts to manage risk effectively, the role of AI in compliance frameworks, and the importance of continuous compliance validation.Chapters00:00 Understanding Compliance: Beyond Check-the-Box01:58 Introduction to the Podcast03:46 The Importance of a Well-Rounded Identity Professional06:38 Upcoming Conferences and Discount Codes08:51 Meet Our Guest: Kia Smith09:36 Kia's Journey from Law to Cybersecurity13:50 The Role of a Director in Consulting19:37 Compliance vs. Security: A Balanced Approach21:41 The Evolving Regulatory Landscape25:00 Managing Third-Party Risks32:21 Setting IAM Security Standards32:54 Cloud Service Offerings and FedRAMP34:07 Procurement and Security Collaboration34:45 Contractual Security Requirements35:24 Business Involvement in Security Decisions36:26 Reviewing Security Practices37:10 Governance and Risk Acceptance41:12 Impact of Regulations on Industries42:58 CMMC and Its Broad Implications51:30 AI in Compliance and Cybersecurity55:33 Pickle Pops and Lighthearted FarewellConnect with Kia: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kia-smith-mpp-cisa/Learn more about RSM's Digital Identity Consulting: https://rsmus.com/services/risk-fraud-cybersecurity/cybersecurity-business-vulnerability/identity-and-access.htmlConference Discounts!Gartner IAM Summit - Code IDAC425 saves 425€: https://www.gartner.com/en/conferences/emea/identity-access-management-ukEuropean Identity and Cloud Conference 2025 - Use code idac25mko for 25% off: https://www.kuppingercole.com/events/eic2025?ref=partneridacIdentiverse 2025 - Use code IDV25-IDAC25 for 25% off: https://identiverse.com/Connect with us on LinkedIn:Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com

Send us a textSelecting an ERP system for large enterprises—companies generating over $1 billion in revenue—is a complex and high-stakes decision shaped by their scale, operational intricacies, and global footprint. While the lower enterprise segment often faces budget constraints and slower business model evolution, the upper enterprise tier is far more dynamic, frequently undergoing structural shifts due to mergers and acquisitions. Given their presence across multiple countries, these organizations require ERP solutions with strong multi-entity support, compliance capabilities, and localization features to navigate regulatory frameworks like GDPR, e-invoicing mandates, and Sarbanes-Oxley compliance. Unlike mid-sized businesses that may operate with a single ERP, large enterprises typically adopt a best-of-breed approach, integrating multiple specialized solutions to optimize financial and operational synergies across subsidiaries. In this episode, our host Sam Gupta discusses the top 10 Large Company ERP in 2025. He also discusses several variables that influence the rankings of these Large Company ERP Systems. Finally, he shares the pros and cons of each Large Company ERP.Background Soundtrack: Away From You – Mauro SommFor more information on growth strategies for SMBs using ERP and digital transformation, visit our community at wbs. rocks or elevatiq.com. To ensure that you never miss an episode of the WBS podcast, subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. 

Chris criticizes the collapse of the vibrant IPO market from the 1990s, arguing that regulations like Sarbanes-Oxley and Dodd-Frank have paved the way for endless financing rounds and inflated valuations. He explains how private equity now chases exits over real market-driven public offerings, leaving American investors and entrepreneurs sidelined. www.watchdogonwallstreet.com

Security takes center stage in this episode as Lois Houston and Nikita Abraham are joined by MySQL Solution Engineer Ravish Patel. Together, they explore MySQL's security features, addressing key topics like regulatory compliance.   Ravish also shares insights on protecting data through encryption, activity monitoring, and access control to guard against threats like SQL injection and malware.   MySQL 8.4 Essentials: https://mylearn.oracle.com/ou/course/mysql-84-essentials/141332/226362 Oracle University Learning Community: https://education.oracle.com/ou-community LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/oracle-university/ X: https://x.com/Oracle_Edu   Special thanks to Arijit Ghosh, David Wright, Kris-Ann Nansen, Radhika Banka, and the OU Studio Team for helping us create this episode.   ---------------------------------------------------------   Episode Transcript:   00:00 Welcome to the Oracle University Podcast, the first stop on your cloud journey. During this series of informative  podcasts, we'll bring you foundational training on the most popular Oracle technologies. Let's get started! 00:25 Lois: Welcome to the Oracle University Podcast! I'm Lois Houston, Director of Innovation Programs with Oracle University, and with me today is Nikita Abraham, Team Lead of Editorial Services. Nikita: Hey everyone! In our last episode, we took a look at MySQL database design. Today is the first of a two-part episode on MySQL security.  Lois: In Part 1, we'll discuss how MySQL supports regulatory compliance and how to spot and handle common security risks.  00:55 Nikita: Joining us today is Ravish Patel, a MySQL Solution Engineer at Oracle. Hi Ravish! Let's start by talking about how MySQL supports regulatory compliance. 01:06 Ravish: Some of the most important international regulations that we have surrounding data and organizations include the GDPR, HIPAA, Sarbanes-Oxley, the UK Data Protection Act, and the NIS2. Although each regulatory framework differs in the details, in general, you must be able to comply with certain key requirements and all of which are enabled by MySQL. First, you must be able to monitor user activity on the system, which includes keeping track of when new users are created, when the schema changes, and when backups are taken and used. You must protect data, for example, by ensuring that databases that are stored on disk are encrypted at REST and ensuring that only authorized users have privileges to access and modify the data. You must have the appropriate retention policies in place for your data, ensuring that backups are held securely and used only for the purpose intended. You must be able to audit access to the data so that you can trace which users gained access to records or when they were modified. All of these facilities are available in MySQL, either as part of the core community edition features or made available through enterprise features. 02:21 Lois: What kind of risks might we encounter, Ravish, and how can we address them? Ravish: As your system grows in complexity, you're likely going to have more risks associated with it. Some of those risks are associated with the human factors that come with any computer system. These might be errors that are introduced when people perform work on the system, either administrative work on the environment or database or work that developers and testers perform when working on a changing system. You might even have malicious users trying to exploit the system or good faith users or support staff who make changes without proper consideration or protection from knock-on effects. At the foundation are the necessary components of the system, each of which might be vulnerable to human error or malicious actors. Every piece of the system exposes possible risks, whether that's the application presented to users, the underlying database, the operating system or network that it works on, or processes such as backups that place copies of your data in other locations. More complex environments add more risks. High availability architectures multiply the number of active systems. Consolidating multiple application databases on a single server exposes every database to multiple vectors for bugs and human error. Older, less well supported applications might give more challenges for maintenance. Engaging external contractors might reduce your control over authorized users. And working in the cloud can increase your network footprint and your reliance on external vendors.  03:53 Nikita: What are risks that specifically impact the database? Ravish: The database server configuration might not be optimal. And this can be changed by users with proper access. To mitigate this risk, you might enable version control of the configuration files and ensure that only certain users are authorized. Application and administrator accounts might have more data privileges than required, which adds risk of human error or malicious behavior. To mitigate this, you should ensure that users are only granted necessary permissions. In particular, structural modifications and administrative tasks might be more widely accessible than desired. Not every developer needs full administrative rights on a database. And certainly, an application should not have such privileges. You should limit administrative privileges only to those users who need that authorization. 04:45 Nikita: Okay, quick question, Ravish. How do authentication and password security fit into this picture? Ravish: Authentication is often a weak point. And password security is one of the most common issues in large applications. Ensure that you have strong password policies in place. And consider using authentication mechanisms that don't solely rely on passwords, such as pass-through authentication or multifactor authentication. 05:11 Lois: So, it sounds like auditing operations are a critical part of this process, right? Ravish: When something bad happens, you can only repair it or learn from it if you know exactly what has happened and how. You should ensure that you audit key operations so you can recover from error or malicious actions. If a developer laptop is lost or stolen or someone gains access to an underlying operating system, then your data might become vulnerable. You can mitigate this by encrypting your data in place.  This also applies to backups and, where possible, securing the connection between your application and the database to encrypt data in flight. 05:54 Did you know that Oracle University offers free courses on Oracle Cloud Infrastructure? You'll find training on everything from multicloud, database, networking, and security to artificial intelligence and machine learning, all free for our subscribers. So, what are you waiting for? Pick a topic, head over to mylearn.oracle.com and get started. 06:18 Nikita: Welcome back! Before the break, we touched on the importance of auditing. Now, Ravish, what role does encryption play in securing these operations? Ravish: Encryption is only useful if the keys are secure. Make sure to keep your encryption assets secure, perhaps by using a key vault. Every backup that you take contains a copy of your data. If these backups are not kept securely, then you are at risk, just as if your database wasn't secure. So keep your backups encrypted. 06:47 Lois: From what we've covered so far, it's clear that monitoring is essential for database security. Is that right? Ravish: Without monitoring, you can't track what happens on an ongoing basis. For example, you will not be aware of a denial-of-service attack until the application slows down or becomes unavailable. If you implement monitoring, you can identify a compromised user account or unusual query traffic as it happens. A poorly coded application might enable queries that do more than they should. A database firewall can be configured to permit only queries that conform to a specific pattern. 07:24 Nikita: There are so many potential types of attacks out there, right? Could you tell us about some specific ones, like SQL injection and buffer overflow attacks? Ravish: A SQL injection attack is a particular form of attack that modifies a SQL command to inject a different command to the one that was intended by the developer. You can configure an allow list in a database firewall to block such queries and perform a comprehensive input validation inside the application so that such queries cannot be inserted. A buffer overflow attack attempts to input more data than can fit in the appropriate memory location. These are usually possible when there is an unpatched bug in the application or even in the database or operating system software. Validation and the database firewall can catch this sort of attack before it even hits the database. And frequent patching of the platforms can mitigate risks that come from unpatched bugs. Malicious acts from inside the organization might also be possible. So good access control and authorization can prevent this. And monitoring and auditing can detect it if it occurs. 08:33 Lois: What about brute force attacks? How do they work? Ravish: A brute force attack is when someone tries passwords repeatedly until they find the correct one. MySQL can lock out an account if there have been too many incorrect attempts. Someone who has access to the physical network on which the application and database communicate can monitor or eavesdrop that network. However, if you encrypt the communications in flight, perhaps by using TLS or SSL connections, then that communication cannot be monitored. 09:04 Nikita: How do the more common threats like malware, Trojan horses, and ransomware impact database security? Ravish: Malware, ransomware, and Trojan horses can be a problem if they get to the server platforms or if client systems are compromised and have too much permissions. If the account that is compromised has only limited access and if the database is encrypted in place, then you can minimize the risks associated even if such an event occurs. There are also several risks directly associated with people who want to do the harm. So it's vital to protect personal information from any kind of disclosure, particularly sensitive information, such as credit card numbers. Encryption and access control can protect against this. 09:49 Lois: And then there are denial-of-service and spoofing attacks as well, right? How can we prevent those? Ravish: A denial-of-service attack prevents users from accessing the system. You can prevent any single user from performing too many queries by setting resource users limits. And you can limit the total number of connections as well. Sometimes, a user might gain access to a privileged level that is not appropriate. Password protection, multifactor authentication, and proper access control will protect against this. And auditing will help you discover if it has occurred. A spoofing attack is when an attacker intercepts and uses information to authenticate a user. This can be mitigated with strong access control and password policies. An attacker might attempt to modify or delete data or even auditing information. Again, this can be mitigated with tighter access controls and caught with monitoring and auditing. If the attack is successful, you can recover from it easily if you have a strong backup strategy in place. 10:50 Nikita: Ravish, are there any overarching best practices for keeping a database secure? Ravish: The MySQL installation itself should be kept up-to-date. This is the easiest if you install from a package manager on Windows or Linux. Your authentication systems should be kept strong with password policies or additional authentication systems that supplement or replace passwords entirely. Authorization should be kept tightly controlled by minimizing the number of active accounts and ensuring that those accounts have only the minimal privileges. You should control and monitor changes on the system. You can limit such changes with the database firewall and with tight access controls and observe changes with monitoring, auditing, and logging. Data encryption is also necessary to protect data from disclosure. MySQL supports encryption in place with Transparent Data Encryption, also known as TDE, and a variety of encryption functions and features. And you can encrypt data in flight with SSL or TLS. And of course, it's not just about the database itself but how it's used in the wider enterprise. You should ensure that replicas are secure and that your disaster recovery procedures do not open up to additional risks. And keep your backups encrypted. 12:06 Lois: Is there anything else we should keep in mind as part of these best practices? Ravish: The database environment is also worth paying attention to. The operating system and network should be as secure as you can keep them.  You should keep your platform software patched so that you are protected from known exploits caused by bugs. If your operating system has hardening guidelines, you should always follow those. And the Center of Internet Security maintains a set of benchmarks with configuration recommendations for many products designed to protect against threats. 12:38 Nikita: And that's a wrap on Part 1! Thank you, Ravish, for guiding us through MySQL's role in ensuring compliance and telling us about the various types of attacks. If you want to dive deeper into these topics, head over to mylearn.oracle.com to explore the MySQL 8.4 Essentials course. Lois: In our next episode, we'll continue to explore how user authentication works in MySQL and look at a few interesting MySQL Enterprise security tools that are available. Until then, this is Lois Houston…  Nikita: And Nikita Abraham, signing off! 13:12 That's all for this episode of the Oracle University Podcast. If you enjoyed listening, please click Subscribe to get all the latest episodes. We'd also love it if you would take a moment to rate and review us on your podcast app. See you again on the next episode of the Oracle University Podcast.

Last week in San Diego, a group of 165 finance leaders convened for the fourth Future of Finance Summit. This JofA podcast episode is a compilation of takeaways from the event and a look at key areas of focus for leaders in 2025. It is the first of several Future of Finance recordings. The speakers for this episode are: n  Tom Hood, CPA/CITP, CGMA, AICPA & CIMA's executive vice president–Business Growth & Engagement n  Kimberly Ellison-Taylor, CPA, CGMA, the CEO of KET Solutions and former AICPA chair n  Becca Shane, CPA, CGMA, the CFO of Blue Marlin Ventures n  Okorie Ramsey, CPA, CGMA, vice president–Sarbanes Oxley at Kaiser Permanente and former AICPA and Association of International Certified Professional Accountants chair What you'll learn from this episode: ·         More about Tom Hood's summation that the event "leveled up." ·         The top priorities of finance leaders, based on polling last week at the Future of Finance Summit. ·         Why Kimberly Ellison-Taylor says she's looking forward to “clarity” in 2025. ·         Why the phrase “feed forward” and an emphasis on positivity resonated with CFO Becca Shane. ·         Okorie Ramsey's focus on the talent pipeline and relevance. ·         His explanation of the profession's need to “tell a better story.”

Comment on the Show by Sending Mark a Text Message.This episode is part of my initiative to provide access to important court decisions  impacting employees in an easy to understand conversational format using AI.  The speakers in the episode are AI generated and frankly sound great to listen to.  Enjoy!Are whistleblowers the unsung heroes of corporate accountability? In our latest episode, we promise to unravel the transformative impact of the Supreme Court's decision in Murray v UBS Securities LLC. This pivotal ruling from February 2024 marks a seismic shift, as whistleblowers no longer need to prove retaliatory intent under the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. We guide you through the implications of this landmark change, exploring how it empowers those who speak up against corporate fraud by only requiring proof that their whistleblowing was a contributing factor to negative treatment. Companies now face the challenge of proving their actions against whistleblowers are justified and unrelated, adding a new layer of accountability.We also have an engaging conversation about the broader repercussions on corporate culture. Discover why fostering environments where ethical behavior is celebrated and whistleblowers are valued as guardians of integrity is more crucial than ever. We offer practical advice for potential whistleblowers, from documenting misconduct to seeking expert legal guidance, while acknowledging the emotional and financial hurdles they might encounter. This episode underscores the need for organizations to genuinely embrace ethical practices, moving beyond mere legal compliance, and showcases the courage required for individuals to step into the spotlight despite potential risks. Join us in this essential dialogue about reshaping corporate ethics and accountability. If you enjoyed this episode of the Employee Survival Guide please like us on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. We would really appreciate if you could leave a review of this podcast on your favorite podcast player such as Apple Podcasts. Leaving a review will inform other listeners you found the content on this podcast is important in the area of employment law in the United States. For more information, please contact our employment attorneys at Carey & Associates, P.C. at 203-255-4150, www.capclaw.com.Disclaimer: For educational use only, not intended to be legal advice.

In a world where corporate ethics are often tested, the latest episode of the "Do Good to Lead Well" podcast brings a timely discussion with Ann Skeet, the Senior Director of the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics. This episode offers listeners a comprehensive exploration into the intricacies of leading with integrity amidst the challenges of today's corporate landscape. During our conversation, Ann discusses the need for a comprehensive approach to ethics education and highlights the need for systemic assessments rather than attributing misconduct to a single "bad apple." We also explore how systemic pressures can foster a culture of fear and ethics washing and why organizations must effectively address toxic high performers. The episode further explores the role of empathy in ethical leadership, underscoring its influence on decision-making and organizational dynamics. Practical applications of empathy, such as rotating assignments and fostering narrative integration through leadership stories, are discussed. In a time when businesses must navigate partisanship, self-regulate, and address pressing issues like climate change and DEI initiatives, ethical leadership is more critical than ever. This episode inspires listeners to embrace their potential as ethical leaders, regardless of their role or setting.  What You'll Learn: • How to foster a culture of trust and accountability within organizations. • The importance of empathy and ethics in decision-making and organizational dynamics. • Strategies for handling toxic high performers and conducting culture self-assessments. • How leaders can responsibly harness technology in the age of AI and disruptive innovations. Podcast Timestamps: (00:00) - An Introduction to Ethical Leadership (15:41) - Organizational Ethics and Risk Assessment (22:40) - Characteristics of Ethical Leadership (36:02) - Building Ethical Cultures Through Empathy (43:54) - Navigating Ethics in Technological Advancements (53:52) - Ethical Leadership in the Future More of Ann Skeet: Ann Skeet is the Senior Director of Leadership Ethics at the Markkula Center for Applied Ethics at Santa Clara University. Her work centers on the ethical challenges faced by leaders and their teams, with a focus on fostering healthy corporate cultures, ethical leadership practices, and governance frameworks that promote human flourishing. Ann teaches ethics literacy for boards through the Silicon Valley Executive Education Center at the Levy School of Business. She has played a pivotal role in global initiatives, including serving on the Steering Committee for the Responsible Use of Technology at the World Economic Forum and contributing to the Partnership on AI's Working Group on AI, Labor, and the Economy, co-authoring a framework for workforce well-being in AI-integrated workplaces. Additionally, Ann has co-authored Ethics in the Age of Disruptive Technologies: An Operational Roadmap and Voting for Ethics, a guide for evaluating candidates from an ethical perspective during elections. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ann-gregg-skeet-239306/  Key Topics Discussed: Positive Leadership, Ethical Leadership, Corporate Culture, Organizational Ethics, Risk Assessment, Silicon Valley, Sarbanes-Oxley, Integrity, Systemic Issues, Misconduct, Ethics Education, Toxic High Performers, Empathy, Applied Ethics, Ethical Decision-Making, Code of Conduct, Ethics Training, Artificial Intelligence, Technological Advancements, Responsible Technology, Governance Framework, Continuous Improvement, Public Trust, Polarized Political Landscape, CEO Success More of Do Good to Lead Well: Website: https://craigdowden.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigdowden/

Today Laura and Kevin speak with Cybersecurity Expert Craig Petronella and founder of the Petronella Technology Group. They speak about cybersecurity and disaster recovery after events such as Milton and Helene and how you should test your cyber practice with table-top exercises. Craig shares some scary ransomware stories. He also gives tips on how to get into cybersecurity in 2024. We get into some of the overlooked compliance risks and new regulations. Craig is a true expert!Craig and the Petronella Technology Group have helped 5,000+ businesses stay safe from network attacks and fully comply with their industries' regulations, including CMMC and NIST for defense industrial base contractors, HIPAA and HITECH for medical practices, GLBA for banking and finance, FTC compliance, Sarbanes Oxley and more. Craig is also the author of 8 cybersecurity and compliance books, including the Amazon #1 bestseller How HIPAA Can Crush Your Medical Practice.With 30+ years of experience, Craig is well-known and highly regarded in the U.S. cybersecurity industry. He has served as a compliance consultant and conducted onsite risk assessments for over 500 medical practices, hospitals, and business associates, across the country, protecting them from hackers halfway around the world in places like Ukraine, Russia, and China. Craig holds MIT certifications in AI, blockchain, cybersecurity, and compliance. 

Answering listener questions about Disney's massive investment in cruises, follow-ups on Canva and Sarbanes-Oxley, a new Chick-Fil-A streaming service, Perplexity's advertising strategy, and lots more.

In today's episode of the IC-DISC show, we welcome Deanna Walker, CEO of Venturity Financial Partners, to discuss the world of outsourced accounting. Deanna reflects on transitioning from banking to leading an accounting firm committed to transparency and team-based client service. We explore Venturity's unique approach to addressing private businesses' administrative and strategic needs. From supporting founder-led ventures to navigating COVID disruptions, Deanna shares insights into competently enhancing clients' capabilities. Our conversation considers the evolving role of CPA firms and the benefits of mentorship in this field. This episode offers not just information but valuable perspectives on outsourcing in today's accounting landscape, enlightening you on the potential strategies and solutions available.     SHOW HIGHLIGHTS I discussed outsourced accounting services with Deanna Walker, CEO of Venturity Financial Partners, exploring their commitment to open book management and "The Great Game of Business" principles. Deanna shared her journey from a decade-long banking career to leading Venturity, highlighting her experiences in business development and the firm's team-based approach. We examined a case study involving a multi-entity dental service organization where Venturity's offshore team significantly improved financial reporting and reduced errors. The conversation included how Venturity supports founder-led companies by maintaining institutional knowledge while enhancing accounting capabilities amid a nationwide shortage of qualified accountants. We delved into the importance of quality work, proactive collaboration, and consistent communication with clients in financial services, emphasizing a team-based approach to outsourcing. Deanna discussed the evolving role of CPA firms in the outsourcing space and the impact of regulations like Sarbanes-Oxley on their services. We explored Venturity's advisory practice, which includes a team of CFOs and COOs providing operational expertise and strategic planning support to clients. Deanna highlighted the significance of mentorship, particularly for women in accounting, and the positive impact of open book management on team engagement and service quality. We addressed the challenges Venturity faced during the COVID-19 pandemic, including capacity issues and the necessity of prioritizing client relationships based on mutual value. The episode concluded with a lighthearted debate on the merits of Texas barbecue versus Tex-Mex cuisine, revealing a shared passion for Tex-Mex.   Contact Details LinkedIn- Deanna C Walker (https://www.linkedin.com/in/deannacwalker/) LINKSShow Notes Be a Guest About IC-DISC Alliance About Venturity Financial Partners GUEST Deanna WalkerAbout Deanna TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dave: Hello, this is David Sprey and welcome to another episode of the IC Disc Show. My guest today Deanna Walker, the CEO of Venturity Financial Partners in. Deanna: Dallas. Dave: And Venturity is a outsourced accounting consulting firm and they've also grown into outsourced CFO, coo type work. We had a really great conversation talking about a variety of different things. One of the most interesting is they're committed to open book management and following the framework from the book the Great Game of Business framework from the book the Great Game of Business, and over time they've even gotten to where they are consulting with their clients on implementing open book management and all the benefits to it. So we went into some details there and I asked my standard questions, of course, about what they wish they had known when they were 25. And so it was a really great interview. Deanna has a really great story and we also got into a little bit of UT and A&M rivalry. So it was a fun conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Good morning, deanna. How are you today? Deanna: I'm great, David. How are you? Dave: I am doing great. I have my Yeti Whataburger cup and you'll see it as we talk. Deanna: There we go, let me some Whataburger. Dave: I know. So where are you located today? Deanna: I'm actually in Dallas, Texas. Dave: Okay, great, and I am in Houston, where I typically am. Hey, before we get started, I want to just address something that may cause this to be a very short podcast, so I noticed that you appear to be a proud graduate of Texas A&M University. Is that true? Deanna: Very true Well. Dave: I am a proud graduate of another large Texas State University in Austin. So I just thought, if this is going to be a problem. We should probably, you know get it out of the way right away. Deanna: I don't think it'll be a problem. I've already addressed this similar issue about 30 years ago. My husband went to the University of Texas, so we are divided. And I've got one graduate of there already and is soon to be graduate in May, and I can also probably say I am one of very few individuals, if not the only one, that has graduated with a degree from A&M that has a license plate currently that says hook'em. Dave: Yeah, you better not let too many Aggies hear about that, they may disown you. Deanna: Yeah, no. Well, we also have a text exchange that's called UT3 and a wannabe. So I would say I'm old Southwest Conference because I've got ties to SMU and Arkansas. So that may date me a little bit, but that's how far back I go with our Texas football. Dave: That's. That is awesome. So are you a native Texan then? Deanna: I am Born and raised in San Antonio, okay. Dave: Yeah, I grew up just east of San Antonio, so I know that part of the state. Well, let's get started. Tell me about Venturity Financial Partners. What the heck do you all do? Deanna: Well, we help business owners, CEOs, management teams solve problems that relate to their accounting back office, including the office of the C-suite. The CFO and the COO relate an alternative to becoming an in-house accounting and finance group. Dave: Okay, and where you see that you've been the CEO for a little, while not a long time. What's the background? How did you end up there? Did you start your career there? What's the story? Deanna: Yeah, no good question. I had about a 10-year banking career. So, coming out of A&M, moved to Dallas and worked in the investment banking field and corporate lending, acquisition financing field for about 10 years or so. Took a little bit of a break when my kids were younger and then got introduced to Chris McKee, the founder of Venturity, in 2001. I really fell in love with the business model and the opportunity to, like I said, help business owners, ceo-led teams, really focus on their back office accounting and bring expertise to the table, and so mainly grew up on the side of the business. That was, the business development side of the house. So most recently, before taking over CEO, I was the CRO. Dave: Oh okay, Chief revenue officer. Deanna: Yes. Dave: Okay, so who? What are the characteristics of the companies that you're kind of best suited to to serve then? Deanna: Yeah, Privately held companies really ranging in size from 10 to 500 million in revenue. Companies, like I said, people don't come to us generally because everything is working great in their finance and accounting department. They usually come because they're frustrated, can't get the right teams in place, not comfortable with their information, and so we can bring a lot of that expertise and partner with them. Dave: Okay, and what is that? And how does that look like? Is it, like you know, consulting engagements? Do they just completely like outsource their back office to you? Is it a mix? Deanna: It's a mix, it's a little bit of both At our core on the accounting outsourcing side. It's, like I said, an alternative to having an in-house team. It's a team-based approach and then we can augment that solution with special project resources, either on the accounting side and then, most recently in the last three and a half years, we added a COO advisory team that can really round out that finance function. And whether it's for an ongoing type of service there or popping in for a project either way. Dave: Okay, got it. Okay, I think I'm with you so far. Well, I love stories and I think our audience does too. Do you have some like client, like success stories that you can tell us about? And I realize you may have to have them anonymous, but I think that helps people understand, understand better with stories and examples. Do you have some stories? Deanna: I do. You know, I guess before I would launch into that I would say is just to add on a little bit to the concept of people don't come to us because their accounting is going well. You know, we're system agnostic, which I also think is a benefit. We work with a variety of industries and so just a lot of times people will come because they're very frustrated in terms of being able to attract and retain top talent where there's been a transition in their business and they're looking to augment and get information. So one that comes to mind in particular it's a family-run business, a wholesale distribution company, and they knew they wanted to sell second generation, but they really knew they wanted to sell. The CEO was not a family member. There was a family member that was still involved in the company and so they brought us on to help get their accounting ready for sale. I'm sure processes really make sure that they are adherence with GAP and so we worked with them probably for I don't know about a year and a half or so working through all of that, getting good cadence, with their month in close and their financial reporting really all in preparation to be put up for sale. Excuse me, they went through a successful transition. This one happened to be purchased by a private equity group, but we really help companies get ready for sale in all areas, but this one was private equity back and I think the interesting thing to note there is that this company has become now the platform for additional add-on acquisitions. So what we've also been able to do is augment to help the due diligence with this group in bringing the special project resources to bear, as well as CFO consulting and advisory. You know when it's needed. Dave: Okay, no, that's, that's great, did? I'm a big fan of John Wierlow's podcast. You know John. He wrote the book Built to Sell and he has a great podcast where he interviews every week an entrepreneur who had a successful exit and they kind of debrief on everything. Do you think that deal would have been much more difficult, if not impossible, to get done if they had not engaged you for the prior year and a half? Do you think it would have just been a non-starter for the private equity firm without that, or do you think it would have just been a lower price? Deanna: That's it lower price. There's a lot of capital out there that people have been to deploy, so I don't know that. I would say I think the accounting, when it's really bad, it may delay. I don't think it keeps the deal from getting done. But I think what we have seen and what our investment bankers and private equity folks will tell us, that having good information and your ducks in a row can really be the equivalent of two to three times turn on an EBITDA. So it's definitely an enhancer to valuation. Dave: Okay, give me one second. Hey, my dog is over in the corner. He woke up and decided his bed wasn't quite comfortable. He was just scratching around. Sorry about that, yeah, and that's, and that is what it comes down to, right, and then the due diligence was probably less painful. I'm guessing as well. Deanna: Yeah, it is. You know we have a product called an accounting assessment and it really sits in front of the Q of E reporting that is in either on behalf of the company or the private equity group and really just kind of what I'll call kick the tires on the accounting and it may seem like basic things but it can be very important. Are they really gap compliant? Are they matching revenue and expenses? Do they have an accounts payable process? Is there a revenue recognition need? That's out there for the type of company they are, and are they adhering to the right treatments there? So those are things where we can really go a little bit deeper into the accounting pretty quickly and that really helps with that Q of E and just helps the process move along to identify what might need to be shored up. Dave: Okay and Q of E quality of earnings. Deanna: Quality of earnings yes. Dave: Yes, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, okay. Well, that's a cool one. You have some other client stories. Deanna: Yeah, another one a little bit larger company. So we're, you know, like I said, we can work with companies 10 to 500 million in revenue, and this one was a multi-entity dental service organization and this one in particular had grown through acquisition. The CEO, when they came to us, was pretty frustrated and heavily involved in the accounting. They had a team in place, four or five person team, some offshore, some onshore and it just wasn't getting the information that he needed and instead of using the time when the financials were generated to analyze and look forward, a lot of time was spent checking for errors. This particular company had outside reporting to an investor group as well as to a bank, and so there was just a lot of eyes in different constituencies looking at the information. And there's just a lot of eyes and different constituencies looking at the information and there's just a lot of time checking for mistakes. And so we were able to come in and map out the very seamless transition over a period of a few months. We tapped into our offshore team as well that we've had since 2006. And we were able to transition to the accounting to our team really short processes and procedures move up the month-in-close timeframe so we could get information into the hands of the management team sooner and then hence out to the external reporting constituencies. And now the time is spent really looking at the operations of the business, figuring out what needs to be drilled down on getting information out to those individual locations more analysis and forward looking than looking for errors. Dave: Okay, did they end up just eliminating that internal team then? Deanna: There was a transition. A couple of people on their India side were kept and moved over to. We don't handle the billing, because insurance billing had a different team, but a couple of those folks were moved over to that team and then the others were transitioned out. We don't handle the billing, because insurance billing had a different team, but a couple of those folks were moved over to that team and then the others were transitioned out. We don't always have to be a situation where we transition team members out. A lot of times it's really based on sort of the level of talent and what the opportunity is there. We kind of round out that function if there's resources that need to remain in-house. Dave: Okay, so you had a situation here where, let me just recap because of the bank and the investor group, the accounting team was hyper-focused on not being in the uncomfortable position where the bank or an investor would say, hey, what's this expense? Then they look at it and then they come back and say, oh, that was a mistake, we had miscoded that, and which just crushes the confidence that those investors and users have. So it sounds like they were hyper-focused on preventing that and they probably got to that hyper-focused because they'd been burned, probably in the past. So they got to that position to burn probably in the past. So, yes, so they got to that position and because of that that slowed down the close and it just had them really devoting a lot of time and resources to just that. You know, no, no errors financial. Deanna: Yes, and also getting the senior management team involved and kind of running down those errors, spending way too much time in the higher level I mean, because the trust wasn't there and they were the ones that were putting their faces on the front lines right to the investor group and to the banks, and there was, you know, debt on the books and you know, and so they really wanted to kind of just glitched up sort of the roles and responsibilities and freed up the CEO to really, like I said, focus on more of the analysis once the team was able to start trusting in the numbers again. Dave: Okay, well, that's okay. That's another great story. Do you have a third one? Deanna: Let's see. You know, I think we've had lots of situations where we can come in, so these were involved, sort of taking over everything that. We have lots of situations, though, where we can come in, so these were involved, sort of taking over everything that. We have lots of situations, though, where we can come in. And you know the thing about some, especially the founder led companies they have really great people on their team that have grown up with them over time and they become family members, right, and so it can be difficult or challenging sometimes when you've got a really longstanding, committed team member, but maybe the company has grown to the point where it's maybe outstripped the skill sets of that individual or individuals, and so those team members bring a lot to the table in terms of institutional knowledge, but they may not have what's needed to take the company to the next level from the accounting standpoint, especially if there's complexity in the business. Sure, mentory management, manufacturing processes or, for construction, clients work in process. So we do this quite a bit. Actually, we'll come into scenarios where those types of team members are on the ground and a lot of times the business owner, the management team, really want to keep those folks and elevate them into new roles because of their operational expertise. So we can come in and augment and work with those types of team members so they don't have to be displaced and they can get more on the analytical side of it, or they can be a bridge between operations and accounting and then we can come in and do that blocking and tackling on the accounting and really get the books closed and make sure that we bring that type of product to the table for them, but that those individuals stay in place and are supported by us but also elevated and coached by us if need be too. So I don't have a specific particular client on that one, because that's a lot of what we do for clients. Dave: Yeah, no, that's great A representative example, because that's a lot of what we do for clients. Yeah, no, that's great A representative example. So the CPA firms we work with, you know, so basically all of our clients because we do just one, we do just one part of the tax process that we coordinate with their longtime CPA firms so we have interactions with hundreds of CPA firms each year. Firms so we have interactions with hundreds of CPA firms each year and, of course, a common theme is just the shortage of qualified people, and I'm guessing that's a similar problem in-house as well, not just in public accounting. Is that accurate? Does there seem to be a shortage of talented people? Deanna: Yes, we've had a shortage of accounting folks for quite some time, really even pre-COVID, but it's definitely been exacerbated by COVID and the opportunity for accounting folks to work remotely to service companies all over the country and, in fact, from all over the world. I think we've been doing outsourcing since 2000, and so we were a little bit on the cutting edge of, hey, you can get your accounting done and not be in the office, you know, sitting there. But now it's really opened all of that up, and so it has created some challenges in attracting and retaining folks. So for us we're not immune from that. But we offer our team members the ability to work with a lot of different clients and be promoted from within and a career path and, you know, in training as well, and so they're first and foremost employees of Venturity, which we are a 20% ESOP owned company and we're also open book management. So we invest a lot in our culture, which I believe helps us to attract and retain folks. We also have an offshore partner that we have worked with since 2006. And so we partner with them and so we divide and conquer on scope of resources between our two groups as well, which just helps us in terms of being able to, if an opportunity comes to us, especially if it's a large one, mobilize quickly to serve that client. But you're right, it's been tough for several years now. Dave: But it sounds like in on balance it's been more of an opportunity for you because you're better able to navigate that shortage than what your client is probably. Is that accurate? Deanna: Yes, I would say so. I think you know that's very true, and we can provide that ongoing training as well, and we have 50 accountants that come to the office every day. So there's a lot of collaboration, team-based approach, resource sharing, things like that, and so that's enticing to a lot of people, as well as the ability to get exposure to a lot of different companies and a lot of different industries. So being system agnostic, working in a lot of different systems as well as industry, provides a lot of opportunity for folks in the accounting field and the opportunity to be promoted as well. Dave: Okay, and you all don't like audit financial statements or prepare tax returns, correct? No? Deanna: that's a really great question. So we're really structured as a professional services company and we like to say we sit on the same side of the table as our clients. So while we have CPAs on staff and our founder is a CPA, our clients get audited by outsourced CPA firms and we don't do tax work either. So we're more of that internal accounting department resource and we partner a lot of times with the tax CPAs and the auditors in terms of giving them the information they need to discharge their services. Dave: Okay, what do your clients say? Or what would you think your clients would say if I said, hey, what makes Venturity so great to work with? What are the things that your clients tell you differentiate you in the marketplace or make you such a valuable partner? Deanna: Yeah, I would say the quality, two things the quality of our work as well as the proactive focus we have on collaboration and communication with our clients. We're consistent. We deliver our financials on time. We send out weekly updates to our clients that they even though we're not going on site to do the work on a regular basis they know at any given point in time where they stand. We're in constant communication with them. We do have onsite meetings it's not like they never see us by any means, but it's very reliable, very consistent. It's very process and team-based versus a people-based solution where you have, maybe you know, all of your accounting is done by one individual and it's tied up in the head and knowledge of that one person. We bring a team to the table and divide and conquer on skill sets, and that's a little bit unique in terms of the way outsourcing. We bring a team to the table and divide and conquer on skill sets, and that's a little bit unique in terms of the the way outsourcing it has been done. Dave: I know some of our the CPA firms. We know, because of the shortage of talent, they've had to make some hard decisions. You know which clients you know they can serve and they've had to actually, you know, disengage with clients just because they didn't. You know they just don't have enough people to really serve everybody. Have you all had to go through a similar process where there's just you know some of your smaller clients you just realized you just don't have the capacity for? Has that been a challenge for you as well? Deanna: We definitely have gone through that in various periods of time. You know we had a couple of things during and coming out of COVID. There was just more work to be done than you can have people for, and so you know there was at one time at our not proud of this, but we had a wait list of like six to eight weeks to bring on a new client and that's super challenging. And so at that point in time we, you know, we were working to have the most efficient client relationships that we can, and you know we want to make sure we have partnerships with our clients where there's mutual value in the relationship. We're more than just bookkeepers and ticking and tying on transactions. So our clients that really that we both collectively benefit the most from, are those that really value that collaboration that we were talking about getting together once a month and having financial summits or we call it getting the call, the ones that are going to pick up the phone and call us and include us in decision-making. And so when we have to have those times that are unfortunate, when we go through some of those analysis to make sure what's the best fit, we take all those things into consideration. So we have had to do it. We don't like to do it necessarily, but at the end of the day we're looking for the right fit on both sides, and so generally that works itself out in the way that it's supposed to. Dave: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. As far as new business the business that's referred does it come mostly from current clients, investors, cpa firms, banks, a mix of all of them, and are there any? There have been any trends in the last few years where it's shifted one way or another? Deanna: way or another, the answer is yes, it comes from all of those. We've got a really great business development team. So we're a referral-based, relationship-based selling organization. We do very little cold calling. We're keeping our eye on things that are out there in the market and definitely are opportunistic. If we come across a company that we may think that is looking for someone or could use our services, and we'll reach out. But yes, we, we develop a group of center of influence. You know relationships and they are comprised of everything you just mentioned. You know bankers, cpa firms, lawyers you know, other professional services providers that really have the ear of that client. You know as well. I would say, one of the things that's been an interesting trend as of late and I would say late, maybe four or five years is the CPA firms are more and more focusing on the client accounting outsourcing space Used to be they would do bookkeeping as a means to an end for the tax work and they weren't so much focused on providing what I would call ongoing accounting services to clients, but we've definitely seen a focus in that area in the last five or six years, but it's pretty popular right now and so, but there's still so many companies that need expertise. We don't often go up against five or six at a time when we're looking at a new relationship. It's still very rare, and mostly what we're competing against is companies choosing to build an internal team, but we're definitely the CPA firms putting more emphasis on it. We still have maintained those referral relationships because if you are auditing those companies, you generally don't want to necessarily be doing the accounting for them, and so we partner with folks that really want to put the best interest of the client first and foremost, and so our referral partners. You know there's sometimes overlap in terms of what maybe they can do and what we can do, but when we take that honest approach to what's the best in the best interest of the client, that tends to work itself out. So we want to have partners as well. When we come across something that is not going to be a great fit for us, that we can send and know that they're going to get taken care of in the way we would. Dave: Okay, no, I like it and that's interesting that evolution of the CPA firms really doing more and more outsourced accounting. It makes sense and I think back when I was at Arthur Anderson like a long time ago well, they'd been out of business for 25 years, so it's been a long time ago but I think back then the accounting firms could actually do consulting for clients they audited and I think that was part of the shakeout or the fallout from that and I think that's what led to Sarbanes-Oxley and some of that stuff. Deanna: Now you're getting a little technical on me, but it's actually true. So, public companies if you're a public company you really can't do it. If you are private, technically you can have that separation. The onus is on the CPA firm to make sure that if they're doing an audit and also doing the accounting, that they put the proper separation in place. But a lot of them just won't mess with it. You know because of things that have happened in the past. In certain situations it might make sense, but we oftentimes find that they like to maintain those relationships and so if they've got a strong audit relationship and there's an accounting need there, they generally will refer it out. Dave: Okay, well, that is excellent. We have covered a lot quickly as we're kind of nearing the home stretch. Is there anything I have not asked you that you wish I'd asked you? Deanna: You asked some really good questions. I mean, I think we haven't talked too much. We talked a lot about accounting. We haven't talked too much about our advisory practice. Dave: Yeah, let's talk about that. Deanna: It's relatively new. So our company is 23 years old and I've been with the firm for about 20 and off and on throughout that time. Actually, during all of that time our focus up until about three and a half years ago was the outsourced accounting piece and to get specific about, that's what I would call the controller level and down. So you know our relationships are rooted in that month in close in the financial reporting. We can also pay bills, invoice clients. We don't do actual payroll processing but we do payroll coordination. So a lot of balance sheet reconciliation work, that type of thing, and over the years there would be times where a client may need that forward looking piece or some additional consultation or an advisor to the CEO or what have you, and so we would bring in a CFO generally fractional CFO partner from the outside. So we would maintain those relationships as well and have good referral network there and that's worked really well and we've maintained those relationships. But about three and a half years ago we established our practice internally as well and we have five what we'll call CXOs. But the reason we have the CXO in there is because it's a combination of CFOs and a couple of folks that are COO, executive type individuals that are 25 plus 30 years plus of experience in the marketplace that can bring that expertise and knowledge to the table to really round out our accounting function and really have what we call that seat at the table with the management team. What that does is it allows us to go deeper with our clients and bring operational expertise to the table or kind of merge and mesh the operations in the accounting. Accounting is the ultimate scorecard. So if you're doing your accounting correct and you're analyzing your information, then you can take it back to what's going on in the operations right, whether it's a process you need to revamp or sales you need to focus on or handling something slightly different way, so that team can help. Those individuals can help bridge that gap and then take that information and look forward with the client as well, and get more into forecasting and budgeting. And how do we prepare for a sale, or where should we go next? A new market, that type of thing. So it brings that operational focus in, you know, to the forefront too. Dave: And that service? Was that more an augmentation of existing relationships or adding that piece? Or is that actually grown to be where you're actually bringing clients in through that service path and then sometimes adding the accounting outsourcing or not? Deanna: Yeah, that's a really great question. It's been a little bit of both. So, you know, we've been able to expand our existing client relationships and bring that level of you know of service to the table. But then we have a lot of opportunities that we may not have been able to do the accounting if it were not for that C-suite individual to lead the charge of the team. And those are usually, the more you know, david, the more complex situations where and it's generally not the complexity related to the accounting, it's the complexity related to the relationships, the management team folks, the constituencies, whether external reporting, things like that to have that C-suite individual to help manage all of that allows us then to come in and do what you do, what we do, really well, which is the accounting. It can be challenging for our controllers to have to manage multiple relationships at the client level because of the way that our teams are set up. So to have that extra level of expertise who can get in there and have those conversations and be a right hand to the CEO or other members of the management team, allows us to have a more expanded relationship in certain situations. Dave: OK, yeah, I can see why you all have gotten into that service line. And then how do you know when to still use one of your longstanding fractional CFO relationships, maybe industry expertise or something like that? Deanna: relationships, maybe a industry expertise or something like that. Yes, thank you for bringing that up, because I'm particularly proud of the fact that when we started the practice, we went to the folks that we had existing relationships with and it's you know, it's a variety and we said, hey, we're getting into this, but we don't want to displace our relationships with you know, with you for that very reason because they're you know, as I said before, our focus is to make sure that we've got the client's best interest in mind, and you know our folks are generalists that we have on our team, and so if there's a particular expertise that is needed, say, and really deep restructuring knowledge, or you know just something where we don't have that expertise, we want to be able to refer it out to someone that we know and can trust. So we've maintained all of those relationships. You know that if it doesn't make sense for us, then we know exactly where to go with it. Dave: OK, no, I'm glad that you mentioned that and I'm sorry I didn't ask you about that. What else? Is there anything else that you wish we'd covered, that we didn't get to? Deanna: I think a couple of things that might be unique about us that I think allow us to really bring a high quality service to the table is that we're a group of accountants, so we definitely know accounting, but we went open book management in 2017 through a relationship with an organization called the Great Game of Business I don't know if you're familiar with it, I do. Dave: Yeah, the Springfield remand. I forget his name, jim, something. Jack Stack, jack Stack, yeah. Deanna: Yeah, and so we really we went open book management, not because our folks didn't know how to do accounting, but we wanted them to be able to have a stake in the outcome and to really feel empowered, to know that they can make an impact in our business, and it's been very successful for us. As you can imagine, it's a process-oriented kind of system and a communication system, and so our folks love process and so we follow it. What I would say letter to the law. We huddle every week. We know where we stand at any given time in our financial situation, and the benefit to that is our folks are constantly having conversations and engaging themselves and services farm where the new deals come from. So it's much more expansive than just, hey, how do you calculate gross margin or net income. So that type of conversation really allows us to even be better and bring more of that type of conversation to the table with our clients as well, and we have clients that are becoming more and more interested in that, and so we can help with that as well in terms of helping them if they want to start thinking about how they can get their team members involved. Dave: That's great. Yeah, that was going to be. My next question was whether, having done that for seven years, you're advising clients who are interested in that as well. So that's great, yeah, it's been a lot of fun. That's great. Well, as we wrap up, I have just a couple of fun questions here at the end, Some curveball questions. Are you up for some curveballs? I am, let's see so if you'd mentioned that you've got a recent graduate of UT and then another one that's there. So the question almost could be a two-part, but I'll ask it the way I normally ask it. So if you could go back in time and give advice to your 25 year old self, what advice might you give? Like, with the benefit of hindsight and knowing how things turned out, is there any advice you might give to your 25 year old self? Deanna: Yes, absolutely so. I also have a 26 year old, so I have three children. So, I am tempering myself every single day on how much advice to give and how much to support. Sure, sure, I have evidence by my dinner conversation, even last night, with our oldest who is, you know, looking to make a career move. So I would say the advice I would give to myself is to I was someone who wanted, was very eager, to go to that next step. Have this planned out, have that planned out, get to this next step. And I think the advice that I would give to myself back then would be to take a little bit of time and try something new and not worry so much about if it doesn't go the way that you need it to, or think you might want it to, or you think it might should, and not be so worried about what happens if it doesn't work out, and that can translate to switching a career or maybe even moving away, or you know, for a period of time and just not being so planned out. Dave: Okay, yeah, I intentionally asked the question because it seems like we would be more amenable to advice from our future self than other people might be amenable to our insights. Deanna: Yeah, for sure, and you know, from my young career standpoint you didn't have this question, but I think you know I often get asked the question. I would say as soon as you can get a coach or a mentor, get one, even if you think you can't afford it. I would say invest in somebody who's going to really be objective, push you out of your comfort zone, you know, to someone that you can really rely on to to help you push yourself to grow. Dave: Okay, well, and maybe. Deanna: I've given you an opening there. Dave: So so now you, the next time you want to give advice, you can say hey, I was on this podcast and they asked what advice I would give to myself when I was your age and this is the advice I would have given to me. But I'm not saying you should take it, but this is if I knew then, what I knew now. This is what I would have told myself to do. So maybe I'll give you a new tack that you can take. Deanna: Yeah, I think, as long as it's not your kids. I do mentor a lot of women who are earlier in their career and trying to figure out how to navigate and manage and you know ebb and flow, the things that come with with life and so I really enjoy that and it's one of my, one of my passions, quite honestly. Dave: I think kids your own kids. Deanna: Having that separation is also the advice I would put out there. As we all know, we learn from that and I continue to learn that lesson. Dave: It's ironic. You could have an unrelated person who's virtually a carbon copy of you, and they could have a carbon copy family, yet their kids would take much more value from your advice, and vice versa it's something about you can't be a prophet in your own homeland, I guess you can't be a prophet in your own home either. Deanna: Yes, no for sure. Which is you know the benefit of like having a strong community. You know growing up and having kids and you know investing in your community because that part does help, yeah, but no that's absolutely true. Dave: All right. So the final question. This is the fun one, so I'm going to ask you a question and you just need to give your gut answer, right? So don't think too much about it. Okay, so we're both in Texas, barbecue Tex-Mex. Deanna: Oh, tex-mex hands down. Tex-mex hands down. I can eat beans and rice for every single meal. I actually love barbecue. Five or 10 minutes in it starts to get too much. No, but beans and rice, mexican, all day long. Dave: Yeah, I'm with you. Well, Dina, this was really fun. I appreciate you taking the time to join me this morning and I hope the rest of your week goes great. And again, it was a real treat and I appreciate you making the time. Deanna: No, I enjoyed it very much, thank you. Special Guest: Deanna Walker.

#IMMUNITY: The strange unmooring of Sarbanes-Oxley. Richard Epstein, Hoover Institution https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/07/justices-rule-trump-has-some-immunity-from-prosecution/ 1910 SCOTUS

GOOD EVENING: The show begins in North Gaza where the Hamas gunmen have gone to hide and to retrieve old weapons in yet more tunnels that were missed the first time the IDF patrolled in the neighborhood... Berlin 1945 FIRST HOUR 9-915  #GAZA: Raiding North Gaza as Rafah combat ebbs. Seth Frantzman, FDD. Bill Roggio FDD https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2024/07/idf-operations-in-northern-gazas-shejaiya-neighborhood-eliminate-dozens-of-terrorists.php 915-930 #HEZBOLLAH: Not ready for the War in the North but when? Seth Frantzman, FDD. Bill Roggio FDD https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2024/07/hezbollah-rocket-barrage-on-israel-wounds-several-including-a-us-citizen.php 930-945  #IMMUNITY: The strange unmooring of Sarbanes-Oxley. Richard Epstein, Hoover Institution https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/07/justices-rule-trump-has-some-immunity-from-prosecution/ 945-1000 #SCOTUS: "Chevron" is gone except. well-written regulations? .. Richard Epstein, Hoover Institution https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-chevron-curtailing-power-of-federal-agencies/ SECOND HOUR 10-1015 #HAMAS: President Sisi may speak of the tunnels beneath the Philadelphi Route. Malcolm Hoenlein @Conf_of_pres @mhoenlein1 @ThadMcCotter @theamgreatness https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2024/07/idf-operations-in-northern-gazas-shejaiya-neighborhood-eliminate-dozens-of-terrorists.php 1015-1030 #IndianaHoenlein and the Lost 1500 year-old ship drawings in the Negev. Malcolm Hoenlein @Conf_of_pres @mhoenlein1@ThadMcCotter @theamgreatness 1030-1045 #CANADA: Defending the Arctic & What is to be done? Charles Burton, Sinopsis. @GordonGChang, Gatestone, Newsweek, The Hill. Charles Burton, senior fellow at Sinopsis, on this: https://breakingdefense.com/2024/07/canadian-defence-minister-our-commitment-to-nato-is-growing-in-europe-and-the-arctic/ 1045-1100 #NUKES: Is testing required for new weapons designs? Peter Huessy, president of Geostrategic Analysis and a fellow at the National Institute for Deterrence Studies. @GordonGChang, Gatestone, Newsweek, The Hill THIRD HOUR 1100-1115 #NewWorldReport: #BRAZIL: #ARGENTINA: Milei hugs Bolsonaro. Ernest Araujo. Joseph Humire @JMHumire @SecureFreeSoc. Ernesto Araujo, Former Foreign Minister Republic of Brazil. #NewWorldReportHumire https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/brazilian-industry-reps-travel-with-lula-bolivia-bid-obtain-cheaper-gas-2024-07-05/ 1115-1130 #NewWorldReport: Lula goes to Bolivia. Joseph Humire @JMHumire @SecureFreeSoc. Ernesto Araujo, Former Foreign Minister Republic of Brazil. #NewWorldReportHumire https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazils-bolsonaro-formally-accused-over-saudi-gifts-sources-say-2024-07-04/ 1130-1145 #NewWorldReport: Milei is a rock star. Joseph Humire @JMHumire @SecureFreeSoc. Ernesto Araujo, Former Foreign Minister Republic of Brazil. #NewWorldReportHumire https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentinas-milei-speak-right-wing-rally-brazil-2024-07-07/ 1145-1200 #NATO: Globalizing NATO to the IndoPacific. Katrina Vanden Heuvel https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nato-leaders-are-descending-on-washington-heres-what-to-know/ar-BB1pBRXa#fullscreen FOURTH HOUR 12-1215 #AFGHANISTAN: $2Trillion of gemstones and metals and marble in mines & what is to be done? Bill Roggio, FDD. Husain Haqqani, Hudson Institute https://ig.ft.com/afghan-mining/ 1215-1230 #ISIS: Vs Taliban & what is to be done? Bill Roggio, FDD. Husain Haqqani, Hudson Institute https://ig.ft.com/afghan-mining/ 1230-1245 #LASVEGAS Gets a spaceport. Bob Zimmerman BehindtheBlack.com https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/las-vegas-space-related-resort-claiming-it-will-be-a-spaceport-gets-faa-airport-license/ 1245-100am #Artificial Gravity on ISS & What is to be done? Bob Zimmerman BehindtheBlack.com https://behindtheblack.com/behind-the-black/points-of-information/centrifuge-research-on-iss-suggests-some-artificial-gravity-can-mitigate-negative-effects-of-weightlessness/

In today's Trish Regan Show LIVE: I'm all over the newest development in the cases against Donald Trump. Already, Judge Merchan announced a kdelay in sentencing! It comes just as Trump's attorneys move to get the cases against him thrown out of court. The reality is this: much COULD be thrown out. The court already ruled Jack Smith was over his skis in his application of an arcane Sarbanes Oxley law to implicate protestors on Capitol Hill — and, it may be determined that Trump has considerable immunity from all other charges brought against him as well. We'll discuss.   Plus, Steve Bannon is joining Donald Trump in his war on Fox News. Find out why he's taking direct aim at Fox and — the family controlling Fox. I have the inside scoop as Bannon tries to dismantle the corporate media.    Meanwhile, new questions about inflation are percolating. Is it really here to stay? Can ANYTHING be done to prevent us from effectively facing the fate of the Roman Empire? Not to be over dramatic, but, nearly $35 Trillion in debt is not a sustainable scenario. I'm joined by Akash Chougule, Vice President for Americans for Prosperity, for a look at the risks face — and the solutions we can consider.    If YOUR'RE worried about inflation and your future, I remind you: it's time to take your financial future seriously. I'm thrilled to offer a special promotion for July 4th at my financial research company, https://76research.com — just go to https://76report.com and use code: DOLLAR to get the subscription to the best financial research for an introductory rate of just $1 a month. Better yet, add on a model portfolio — which provides you with 10-15 stock picks and in-depth analysis on the companies my colleague (long time stock picker and mutual fund manager Rob Hordon) consider best in class.    CHECK OUT MY MERCH! Https://TrishRegan.shop and help support the show today.    I'm thrilled to give a shout out to some of our wonderful sponsors on the program, including:   American Hartford Gold.  Https://TrishLovesGold.com TEXT TRISH to 65532 to receive up to $15,000 in free silver with American Hartford Gold or go to https://TrishLovesGold.com. You can also use my name when calling 1-844-495-1115.   Https://BalanceofNature.com USE CODE: TRISH for 35% off! And free shipping.   https://AmericansforProsperity.comSupport the show: https://trishregan.shop/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hunter Biden is convicted of a series of felonies and the major media uses this as an opportunity to prop up the Bidens.  But this is but one example of the rope-a-dope being played against the American people.  Jerry tells a story about the collapse of the rule of law visiting upon his family in a very personal way.  This leads into a discussion of the two-tiered system of justice in America and the weaponization of the law for politics, and how the flowering of lawfare today had its seeds planted during the Obama years: Operation Choke Point, the harassment and prosecution of Chris Christie and his aides - and how that prosection laid the groundwork for using a financial services law (Sarbanes-Oxley) to go after J6 rioters (and those who were merely "Rioter adjacent").  Speaking of J6 - video has surfaced (finally) of Nancy Pelosi taking responsibility for the chaos on Capitol Hill on January 6, and this leads to a discussion of coups and insurrection, and the affirmative undermining of a presidency by people in the bureaucracy.And the Supreme Court rules, in another 9-0 decision, that the FDA's approval of an abortion drug can stand.  But this will not quell the left's lies about the court having an out-of-control ideological slant.Finally, Andrew talks about his high school reunion - and how the potentially well-meaning implementation of "diversity" policies and programs can lead to intense divisions in a community years later.

I got acquainted with Todd Brooker through LinkedIn, where we follow some of the same voices, and learned last fall that he spends a lot of time in Fort Collins - where his daughter Libby Brooker is a goalie on the CSU soccer team!  It took us a minute, but this spring we finally got properly acquainted over lunch, followed by a long-form conversation in The LoCo Experience studios.  Todd is the second Texan I've had on the podcast, and the second from Austin - apparently the Fort Collins of that state. I'm hoping for Joe Rogan or Lex Fridman as my third such citizen - intros welcome!  Cawley, Gillespie & Associates (CGA) is a 60+ year petroleum engineering, geology, and valuation firm that Todd has worked at for 32 years, and been President of for more than 10 years.  The firm has ~35 employees in two offices, and is something of a boutique firm in the industry.  Owners of oil wells all over the nation - and beyond - hire CGA to evaluate potential acquisitions or support creation of audited financial statements to comply with Sarbanes Oxley.  I wanted to bring Todd onto the show because he knows a lot of things about a lot of things, especially as it pertains to the oil and gas industry in our nation.  Todd is a proud dad, loving husband, and VP and Board Member of the Town & Country Optimists Club in Austin.  He's a part-time Fort Collinsian now, and fits right in - and when he moves here full-time in the future I'll try to snag him for the Breakfast Rotary Club and maybe as a LoCo Facilitator - he'd be great.  So please join me in enjoying my conversation with oil industry expert and my new friend, Todd Brooker.  The LoCo Experience Podcast is sponsored by: Logistics Co-op | https://logisticscoop.com/

What You Need to Know is that tomorrow the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the Fischer v. United States case, which pertains to the 1512(c) charge that has been levied against January 6 protestors. 1512(c) is part of the Sarbanes-Oxley act of 2002, and it prohibits the obstruction of official proceedings and destruction of evidence. The question is: does protesting on January 6 really count as a violation of this law? Carrie Severino has a great bench memo on the case in National Review. We are meant to trust that the government will give citizens their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights to due process, but the use of the 1512(c) law is emblematic of how much the narrative machine has stretched the narrative to take down political enemies on the right. Jason Jones is a film producer, author, activist, popular podcast host, and human rights worker and president of the Human-Rights Education and Relief Organization (H.E.R.O.). Jason joins Ed to discuss the Arizona Supreme Court decision on abortion. Check out Jason's book on The Great Campaign Against the Great Reset. Dan Schneider, VP of MRC Free Speech America, joins Ed to discuss Alvin Bragg's exclusion of Orthodox Jews from the jury pool in Trump's trial. Dan explains how Orthodox Jews lean pro-Trump more than any other demographic in New York City, so Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg moved jury selection from Wednesday to Friday in an act of religious discrimination to protect his political attack. This is not due process, this is a trick of Democrat operatives. Wrap Up: Sources to follow this week, plus - a consideration on Trump.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode I am incensed about the use of Sarbanes Oxley for the January 6th rioters --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/nichelle7/message

(0:00) Intro.(1:04) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.(1:51) Start of interview.(2:54) Terry's "origin story." (5:18) The start of her legal career with O'Melveny & Myers.(8:35) Her time at Howard Rice and her current role at Arnold & Portner (the firms merged in 2012).(11:34) Her book ESG, the Professional's Guide to the Law and Practice of ESG, published by the American Bar Association.(14:55) On the evolution of the purpose of the corporation and emergence of ESG.(17:28) Environmental risks and opportunities (the "E" in ESG)(21:00) Her take on the new SEC Climate Disclosure Rules. "It's arguably, to me, the Sarbanes-Oxley of its generation in terms of a regulatory shift."(24:21) On the legal challenges to the SEC Climate Disclosure Rules.(28:11) Social risks and opportunities (the "S" in ESG).(33:31) On the ESG backlash. Reference to FT article ($13.3bn pulled out of BlackRock). Larry Fink's 2024 Chairman's Letter to Investors.(37:50) Challenges to CA's board diversity laws (SB-826 and AB-979)(42:14) Challenges to Nasdaq Board Diversity Rule.(44:14) The Theranos Governance Story with Tyler Schulz (event hosted by BASF).(46:22) BASF's Truth and Power Distinguished Speaker Series.(48:47) Future corporate governance trends: ESG is increasingly intersectional (i.e. sustainability and AI)(52:29)  Books that have greatly influenced her life: My Life on the Road by Gloria Steinem (2015)Lady Justice by Dahlia Lithwick (2022)(54:04) Her mentors: Larry Rabkin (former partner at Howard Rice)  and her Dad.(54:57) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by: "To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that" (St Teresa of Avila) and "You have to see it to be it" (Billie Jean King)(55:55) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.(56:14) The living person she most admires: Gloria Steinem.Terry Johnson is a partner at Arnold & Porter and the 2024 President of the Bar Association of San Francisco and its Justice and Diversity Center. You can follow Evan on social media at:Twitter: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__You can join as a Patron of the Boardroom Governance Podcast at:Patreon: patreon.com/BoardroomGovernancePod__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

Guests:Emily Coyle, President & Founding Partner, Cyber Governance AllianceOn LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-elaine-coyle-a8243328/Dr. Amit Elazari, Co-Founder & CEO, OpenPolicyOn LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/amit-elazari-bar-on/On X | https://www.twitter.com/AmitElazariAndrew Goldstein, Chair of Global White Collar Defense and Investigations Practice, Cooley LLP [@CooleyLLP]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-d-goldstein/____________________________Host: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martinView This Show's Sponsors___________________________Episode NotesIn the episode of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast, host Sean Martin discusses the issues surrounding the SEC's precedent-setting decision to charge the CISO of SolarWinds, Tim Brown, in the aftermath of the Sunburst cyberattack. Joining Sean are Emily Coyle, the founder of Cyber Governance Alliance, Andrew Goldstein from law firm Cooley and Amit Elazari from OpenPolicy. Emily elucidates on the work of the Cyber Governance Alliance, aiming to lobby for methodology change by bringing the best practices of cybersecurity into the legal framework. The Alliance is seeking to provide cyber security professionals with the protections they need to carry out their role, including limitations on liability and protection against the chilling effect of litigation. Andrew speaks to the potential impacts their arguments could have on the wider cyber security field. A pressing concern he highlights is the effect of the SEC's decision on aspiring cyber security professionals and their willingness to engage in the field, potentially exacerbating an already vulnerable shortage of professionals.Amit points out the contradictions between best practice standards for cybersecurity, enshrined in legislation, and the SEC's decision. She puts a call to action to the cyber community to collectively support the renewal of the amicus, around furthering discussions with policy makers to create a balanced decision.The group concludes that the lawsuit sets a challenging precedence for cybersecurity professionals. They argue that aligning legal and policy frameworks with cybersecurity practices should be a priority. They also encourage the community to engage the policymakers in discussion, starting with commenting on and signing the next amicus brief being drafted. Collectively they emphasize the urgency and importance of the cybersecurity community's involvement in shaping the future of cybersecurity policy and governance before it's set in stone.Key Questions AddressedWhat has been the impact, thus far, of the SEC's decision to charge the CISO of SolarWinds, Tim Brown, after the Sunburst cyberattack?How can conflicting policies potentially impact the sustainability of effective cybersecurity practices and what is the call to action for the cybersecurity community?How is the Cyber Governance Alliance challenging the current cybersecurity legal framework and what protections are they seeking for cybersecurity professionals?Top Insights from the ConversationThe SEC's decision to charge the CISO of SolarWinds has far-reaching implications for the cybersecurity community and can deter aspiring professionals for a long time to come.Through the Cyber Governance Alliance, there's an ongoing effort to integrate the best practices of cybersecurity into the legal framework and provide basic liability protections for cybersecurity professionals.Despite the contradictions in cybersecurity policies, there's an urgent call for the cybersecurity community to unify and shape the future of cybersecurity policies and governance.___________________________Watch this and other videos on ITSPmagazine's YouTube ChannelRedefining CyberSecurity Podcast with Sean Martin, CISSP playlist:

Guests:Emily Coyle, President & Founding Partner, Cyber Governance AllianceOn LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-elaine-coyle-a8243328/Dr. Amit Elazari, Co-Founder & CEO, OpenPolicyOn LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/amit-elazari-bar-on/On X | https://www.twitter.com/AmitElazariAndrew Goldstein, Chair of Global White Collar Defense and Investigations Practice, Cooley LLP [@CooleyLLP]On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-d-goldstein/____________________________Host: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martinView This Show's Sponsors___________________________Episode NotesIn the episode of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast, host Sean Martin discusses the issues surrounding the SEC's precedent-setting decision to charge the CISO of SolarWinds, Tim Brown, in the aftermath of the Sunburst cyberattack. Joining Sean are Emily Coyle, the founder of Cyber Governance Alliance, Andrew Goldstein from law firm Cooley and Amit Elazari from OpenPolicy. Emily elucidates on the work of the Cyber Governance Alliance, aiming to lobby for methodology change by bringing the best practices of cybersecurity into the legal framework. The Alliance is seeking to provide cyber security professionals with the protections they need to carry out their role, including limitations on liability and protection against the chilling effect of litigation. Andrew speaks to the potential impacts their arguments could have on the wider cyber security field. A pressing concern he highlights is the effect of the SEC's decision on aspiring cyber security professionals and their willingness to engage in the field, potentially exacerbating an already vulnerable shortage of professionals.Amit points out the contradictions between best practice standards for cybersecurity, enshrined in legislation, and the SEC's decision. She puts a call to action to the cyber community to collectively support the renewal of the amicus, around furthering discussions with policy makers to create a balanced decision.The group concludes that the lawsuit sets a challenging precedence for cybersecurity professionals. They argue that aligning legal and policy frameworks with cybersecurity practices should be a priority. They also encourage the community to engage the policymakers in discussion, starting with commenting on and signing the next amicus brief being drafted. Collectively they emphasize the urgency and importance of the cybersecurity community's involvement in shaping the future of cybersecurity policy and governance before it's set in stone.Key Questions AddressedWhat has been the impact, thus far, of the SEC's decision to charge the CISO of SolarWinds, Tim Brown, after the Sunburst cyberattack?How can conflicting policies potentially impact the sustainability of effective cybersecurity practices and what is the call to action for the cybersecurity community?How is the Cyber Governance Alliance challenging the current cybersecurity legal framework and what protections are they seeking for cybersecurity professionals?Top Insights from the ConversationThe SEC's decision to charge the CISO of SolarWinds has far-reaching implications for the cybersecurity community and can deter aspiring professionals for a long time to come.Through the Cyber Governance Alliance, there's an ongoing effort to integrate the best practices of cybersecurity into the legal framework and provide basic liability protections for cybersecurity professionals.Despite the contradictions in cybersecurity policies, there's an urgent call for the cybersecurity community to unify and shape the future of cybersecurity policies and governance.___________________________Watch this and other videos on ITSPmagazine's YouTube ChannelRedefining CyberSecurity Podcast with Sean Martin, CISSP playlist:

In today's episode of the IC-DISC show, I sit down with Dan Corredor, the owner of Strategic CFO, to discuss how his firm is revolutionizing the accounting landscape through near-shoring in Mexico. We explore Dan's journey starting in Colombia and arriving in Houston, where his bilingual skills have helped Strategic CFO carveout a unique niche. Our conversation reveals how Strategic CFO blends accounting expertise with innovative strategies to strengthen businesses from the inside out. Through insights on US GAAP, technology, and building capable teams, Dan shows us why accounting is about more than compliance - it's about fostering strategic growth. Near the end, Dan offers us personal anecdotes about cultivating early savings habits and his culinary interests. Our discussion provides a blueprint for navigating accounting challenges with an international perspective and strategic foresight to propel businesses higher.   SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Dan Corredor's firm, Strategic CFO, is leading a cost-saving revolution by near-shoring back-office accounting services to Mexico, significantly reducing costs compared to traditional US-based services. Strategic CFO was acquired by Dan Corridor in 2017 after the passing of founder Jim Wilkinson, and Dan has continued to evolve the company while maintaining its legacy. We discuss the importance of differentiating between bookkeeping and accounting, where bookkeeping involves recording transactions and accounting involves analyzing and interpreting financial data according to US GAAP. We highlight how an effective accounting team can steer companies beyond outdated systems, and how technology is transforming financial statement preparation. Dan emphasizes the symbiotic client relationships that result from a combination of coachability and strategic foresight in financial matters. There's a discussion about the challenges in the US accounting landscape, including talent shortages and wage inflation, and how near-sourcing with Mexican talent offers a solution. The near-sourcing model involves Mexican employees supervised by Texas-based controllers, ensuring quality control while offering CFO-level support to US companies. We touch upon the personal side of Dan Corridor's journey, including the importance of early financial savings and sharing personal culinary favorites, to connect with the audience. Strategic CFO brings a unique international perspective to each client they serve, emphasizing their hands-on approach and operational expertise. We wrap up with anecdotes and stories that provide insight into the practical application of financial strategies and how companies can scale efficiently with the right accounting support. LINKSShow Notes Be a Guest About IC-DISC Alliance About Strategic CFO GUEST Dan CorredorAbout Dan TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dave: Hi, my name is David Spray. Welcome to another episode of the IC-DISC Show. Today, my guest is Dan Corredor, the owner of Strategic CFO. Strategic CFO is like many virtual CFO service companies, except that Strategic CFO has an interesting twist that they implemented a little over a year ago. They use what Dan calls near-shoring similar to offshoring, but done in Mexico, where it is very near, and we go into great detail about how they have developed a model that allows for providing professional grade back office accounting for 60% less than a traditional US-sourced solution. There's a lot of great ideas in here, whether you're looking at developing a professionalized accounting group or not. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did. Good morning, Dan. Welcome to the podcast. Dan: Good morning David. Thanks for having me. My pleasure, my pleasure. Dave: So where are you calling in from today? What part of the world are you in? Dan: So we are in Shurgland, texas, which is a suburb of Houston, houston, gotcha. Dave: So let's so. You're a native of Houston. Dan: No, I was actually born in Bogota, colombia, in South America. Dave: Okay. Dan: My family moved to the States when I was a baby about six months old, grew up First 10 years in Ohio, moved to Houston area in 1976, and we've been here ever since. Dave: Oh wow, Did y'all speak Spanish at home then? Dan: We did. That was my first language. My dad always said speak Spanish at home and I don't care what you speak outside of house. We learned English outside the house when I went to school and we still speak Spanish today, and my kids do as well. Dave: That's awesome. I'm so jealous. My heritage is German and both of my grandmothers were born in the Dakotas in German communities. They only spoke German until they started school, but then they married non-German guys and then it was during World War II where, you know, speaking German was kind of frowned upon, so we lost the language. I'm always jealous of you truly bilingual folks, and bilingual with no accent in either language, because I'm assuming your Spanish has a nice Colombian accent. Dan: Right, it's pretty good as well. Yeah, it's certainly paid off. I really think that I've gotten a couple of jobs I've had in my career because most of the time I spoke Spanish and could be in Latin America. Dave: That's awesome and good for you for keeping it going to the next generation. I'm told that's easy to kind of let it slide. Dan: Especially as kids grow up, you know, get a little bit older and they start talking back in English and we have to kind of remind them. But it works. You know, my kids are not 20 and 21, and they both are fluent Spanish and English. Dave: That's awesome. What a great skill set to launch them into the world with. Dan: Yeah, we're proud of them. Dave: That's great. So you end up in Houston at some point, at least when you went to college. Dan: Yes, I went to University of Houston, got an accounting degree there and I started working in Houston in oil and gas production first, and then oil and gas services. So yeah, it's always been in Houston, except for two years in Dallas and then almost about four years as an expat in Mexico. Dave: So other than that, always based in Houston- Okay, yeah, I tell people you go through it's like the stages of grief. I tell people that like it's the stages of Houston, right, like when you first get here at least this is what I went through you hate it. There's like it seems like an ugly city. It's flat, you know the traffic, the humidity in the summertime. Then after a while you start to tolerate it and then at some point it kind of gets in your blood and if you ever move away you're like, wow, I really miss that place. That place has got a lot going for it. Dan: Yeah, I've always enjoyed it. You know I've always liked the Houston area and love Texas. Houston has been great. I love the climate, except for these January February days where you know we made it up in 32 degrees. I don't like that. But I don't mind. It has grown a lot. The last few years has experienced a tremendous amount of growth. Dave: Especially where you are. Yeah, I remember when Sugar Land was the middle of nowhere, the country it was nothing. Dan: It was nothing. I remember going to school elementary school we'd go to private school, st Thomas Memorial, and I'd tell kids where I live and I thought I was crazy. You live where you know, but it was only a 30 minute drive back then, so I know. Dave: Well, let's talk about strategic when. When did you become involved in strategic CFO? When did you acquire it? Dan: So I acquired the business in October 2017. The business has been around since the mid 90s. The founder, jim Wilkinson, was a colleague of mine and I actually met him in the 90s and it was ironic. I met him because my brother-in-law and his family hired Jim Wilkinson back in 96 or 97 to help him on a project as a CFO and my brother-in-law said, hey, you got to meet this guy. He's a really nice guy. You know, in Houston is your area. So I met him back then and you know, jim and I had similar backgrounds in regards to the type of things. We worked on our personalities, so we would do lunch and breakfast, you know, quarterly or every six months. Over the years Never worked with each other or for each other, but we'd networked a lot and we'd run into each other. We stayed in touch. We even referred business back and forth to each other, so that you know Jim is the founder and started this business, started the brand, did a great name, developing the brand, the strategic CFO, and he started our online business where we sell a membership subscription and some coaching workshops. Jim was very much a strategic coach. He loved the academic side of accounting and operations. He was very involved with the entrepreneurship program at the University of Houston, so all that really strengthened the business. And, unfortunately, jim went to bed one day in 2017 in the summer and didn't wake up and passed away. So it was really sad. I unfortunately didn't hear about his passing for two or three months afterwards and I was not able to attend his funeral, but I heard it was a beautiful funeral with, you know, a thousand people. So that was Jim. You know he was a network, he had lots of friends and you know so when he passed, I was at a company called Opportun and I was a restructuring group and I was finding an opportunity to love that firm. They've done a great job over there. But when Jim passed, you know, I thought to myself. You know, I've always been, you know, kind of un-perno myself. I've always had the back of my mind wanting to do something on my own. So when Jim passed, I approached the family and asked them what are they going to do with the firm? And they really didn't have a plan of action. So they put me in touch with their attorney and, make long story short, I acquired the firm in October 2017. And it's been great ever since. This is a year six. I can't believe we've already been here six years and we've had a great firm, great growth. We've got really good people. The brand continues to build and strength and it's a well-known brand and I meet a lot of people that a new Jim you know, and they go yeah, I knew Jim, you know, and congrats for taking over Jim's business. You know, so to me it's a privilege to take on his legacy. Dave: Yeah, no, I really like Jim. I think the last time I had dinner with him he had a restaurant I forget where it was in West U that he liked to go to and we'd had dinner or drinks probably after work one day, but that was about a year before his passing, and also like you. Well, no, I think I did hear about it, but I was out of town, I was in, I was out of state and was not able to make the funeral. But same thing I heard. Yeah it was well attended. Well, I'm glad that you reached out to the family because I'm sure they were. His wife was likely in shock from the whole thing. And so that probably worked out well that there was somebody that she knew him had a clean relationship with. So that's great. So talk to me about who are the companies that you all are best set up to serve what's really your sweet spot and who you really can add value to Right. Dan: So people ask us what are the typical companies you work on and boy it's a wide range Our clients, our smallest clients probably seven million in revenue, and our largest client is literally a 13 billion public and trade company. Dave: So it's a wide range. Dan: Now what's right down kind of the middle of the fairway? It's that typical entrepreneur or family owned business that started small and grew and is now doing 40, 50, 80 million hours in revenue and they need to professionalize the back office. It's the companies that started with very basic financial statements and cash reporting and things like that and have bookkeepers and then they move on and now their bank or their partners or investors somebody or the business owner needs professional financial statements. So we professionalize the back office, we professionalize your financial statements. I always explain to business I have this same discussion almost every single day with business owners there's a difference between bookkeeping and accounting and everybody knows bookkeeping. Everybody does bookkeeping. Bookkeeping is entering transactions into a system. You enter a PAR, you push a button, generate a report. That's bookkeeping. We don't do bookkeeping. We don't do that clerical, administrative entering transactions. We will do it as support staff, but we do accounting. We apply accounting principles based on US GAF to those transactions and it starts with everything on the P&L and everything on the balance sheet. You can go to line by line and there are some accounting principles that apply to each one of those transactions. Perfect example Yesterday I was at a client meeting. It's been a fairly new client and they have a lot of manual processes and the transactions on the bookkeeping side. And we said, hey, we can automate this and then all you're going to need is the controller and the accounting manager. And his response is wait a minute, but if you automate all this transactions, I don't need anybody. And I was like well, you're automating the bookkeeping, you're not automating the accounting. Somebody has to apply the knowledge of accounting principles to all those transactions to make sure you have the right P&L and the right balance sheet. But if you just do the bookkeeping, then all you have, in whatever accounting system you're using, is transactions in a system that are really meaningless because you don't have the right margins, you don't have the right assets, you don't have the right liabilities, because you're not applying accounting principles. So oftentimes we find ourselves as a firm educating and coaching the business owners on what is accounting. Why do they need financial statements based on US GAAP? It's not just for the public and credit companies that are trading on the Dow Jones, it's not for those billion dollar companies Every business if you don't have the proper financial statements the financial we call it financial tools, because it's more than just financial statements. If you don't have good financial tools, how do you make decisions in your business? How do you know what projects are making money and not making money truly based on accounting principles, not on a cash basis? So we have to often educate them. So our ideal company is one. Well, one is the entrepreneur or business owner that wants to listen, because we have some that they don't know what they don't know and they think. I had one business owner not too long ago, probably four months ago, telling me that these financial tools and financial statements are just purple unicorns. I was like, okay, so if somebody doesn't want to accept the fact that I've been doing this for 32 years and we know what financial statements are and how they improve your business, if that business owner thinks that they know more than we do, we can help them. If they don't want to be coached, if they don't want to listen, we can't, and we've run into those. We've run into business owners that they think they know everything. They've run their business 20, 30 years, which they run very well. They have good widgets that they make, but they don't know anything about financial statements or accounting principles. So that's the ideal client when it's coachable when it allows us to bring process and procedures and US gap so that they can have not only good financial statements, which are all historical in nature, but also what do we do with that data? Now we have to interpret that historical information, forecast it, analyze it, look at margins so that the business owner can make better decisions about the future. And we that's hence our name, strategic CFO we always want to think strategically. What do we do with that data? To interpret it so that we can properly forecast and know where the business is going and keep it financially healthy. The balance sheet and the P&L are going to describe to you the health of the business and we want to make sure it stays healthy. So that's the ideal client. Dave: So it sounds like yeah. So it sounds like really it's. Companies are kind of a victim of their own success. You know, companies who have, I mean, a $5 million company who stays static for 20 years, you know probably can't add as much value, but that $5 million company that quadruples in revenue over five to 10 years, where they outgrow their accounting system, their processes, the team. It sounds like that's where the opportunity starts, with you all. Dan: That's right. That's right when they want to grow, they want to professionalize the back office, have professional finance savings. Now there's a lot of companies do what we do and since I bought the firm, I've always thought how can we differentiate ourselves? How can we really stand out and bring something to the table? So initially, the first five years of voting the business, I thought that you know we're and it's true, we are very different because we do have a tremendous amount of operational experience. Myself speaking, I've been CEO of companies with as many as 2000 people. I've been general manager of business. When I was in an expat in Mexico, I was general manager for that business after first being the CFO. So we've got tremendous, got tremendous operational experience. I've been interim CEO for one of our clients as strategic CFO. We have that operation, and operations and accounting always have to talk to each other, Sure, but about a year and one month ago, year and two months ago, we really came up with a differentiating factor where yeah. So we, you know I've always been against outsourced accounting and I've been asked previously if we do outsource counting. I've always said no and I don't want to do it because the companies that exist today that do the traditional outsource accounting. I have two main problems with them. Number one is that they are very far removed from the operation. They are located somewhere else. They never said foot in the business, so there's not that connection with operations. Number two is that those companies do outsource accounting. They're working on 10 other clients at the same time, so the business doesn't really get the biggest bang for their buck, and that always bugging as being an operating guy. So, out of a need, one of our clients who came to us said Dan, we love y'all, we love these two people you have here. They're doing a great job, they find us. They finally got us professional accounting, financial statements and these tools and we budget and forecasting all this stuff. But we can't afford you because we're charging U of S rates and we have to charge US rates. We have to pay our people good wages, fair wages. We have to have a little margin in it. We're not going to become millionaires out of this, but we have to have a margin. So I told the owner. I said you know what? You're right, you can't afford us, you're too small. They were seven million in our business. So I went to the drawing board and came back a couple months later and we have developed now a product called mirror sourcing. Mirror sourcing is outsourced accounting, improved and on steroids. We took those two things that I don't like, which is far removed from the operation and working on multiple clients at once. So what we've done with mirror sourcing we will hire an accounting team and it's it starts. It could be a team of two kind of the typical model. It could be one, it could be 10. We actually have one that's 20, but the typical model is a controller and accounting manager. We hire them. They're dedicated to your business and they are on live every day. They only work for you. They are on teams. You go to the group and teams and join a meeting. You're talking to your accounting teams, like having them down the hall Monday through Friday. So that that eliminates that they only work for you, they're not working for anybody else. Number two the onboarding of that team and quarterly visits are on site. So the business owner, the operating team, the clerical staff. They get to know the accounting team because the onboarding is there and on according to the basis. They fly in and they sit there and they do a quarterly review review with you and they're usually there three to five days with you at the office, working with you, hand in hand. So now you start developing that relationship. Now you have a connection between the accounting team and the operations and it's dedicated team and we're able to offer that at a 60% savings. That's six zero, wow, that's huge. Yeah, because the team happens to be located in Mexico. Now why Mexico? Mexico? I spent four years in NexFAT there. I got to work with all the big four firms, got to establish a good network over there in Latin America and Mexico and Columbia and other places. There are very strong professionals. And let's just talk about accounting. The accounting professionals. The accounting professionals that we hire usually have big four experience. They work for US companies. They're all bilingual, they speak very good English, they all know US GAAP and they just happen to work remotely for that period of time between their visits and the wages and economy in Mexico is much different than US. A controller in the US will easily a qualified controller. Let me start with that, because I've seen people labeled controllers that aren't. A qualified controller is the $150,000 person in the US. An accounting manager is going to be $85,000, $90,000 person. In the US. You're spending with benefits and 401k and taxes and everything else. You're going to spend over $300,000, $350,000 on just two people for a small 10 million dollar business. That's a big pill to swallow, sure, we realize that. So we've brought that cost down. So for $12,500 a month, which is less than half of what you'd pay here, you get a team of two qualified professionals dedicated to your business that are providing this professional accounting. We started this out of a need with one company we're up to 10 and we had a very. I have got a contact at a very large public-traded company and I was telling her about this over dinner. She came back to me a couple of days later and she goes you know near source thing you told me about, can you scale that up? I said absolutely. Make long story short. We've opened up an office in Monterey, mexico, only for this publicly-traded company of 13 billion and we now have yeah, we now have I think we're at 22 accounts and that's probably going to be over 30 or 40 accounts because again, any business will benefit from reducing costs. So this large public-traded company is shifting some accounting rules and it could be AP accounts, payable accounts, receivable fixed assets, inter-company cash applications, whatever the needs are. We're able to provide that a huge savings. So with that we've developed near source and it's a successful model. It applies to any business anywhere in the US but we're able to finally bring professional accounting the work done remotely but it's on-site business every three months for 60% savings. So that's a new differentiating factor for our firm at strategic CFO and we think that's going to really take. It has taken off. We think it's going to be a change, game changer for us and our future as a business. We'll continue to do everything we're doing. We're not leaving that, but we're just adding to our revenue stream. Dave: That's really. I really appreciate the innovation of that, and it also just seems like the college students just are not enamored with entering the accounting profession right. There just seems to be staffing shortages and whereas it seems like these countries outside the US there's a greater enthusiasm to do the work. Dan: Yep, there's a large pool. There's a large pool there. You're right. I heard numbers as high as 30% less enrollment in accounting in colleges over the last couple years than historical. So there are less people entering the accounting profession. A lot of them have retired. A lot of people have simply left the accounting profession. It can be grueling, it could be long days and long month ends and long quarters, long year ends. So people have found other ways to make a living and that means it's supply and demand. That means the ones that stay in place, that are controllers and account managers. The wages they're demanding higher wages because there's less of them and there's high turnover. That's. The other thing is that companies, if they hire us in our near sourcing team, if there's tone or turnover, that's our problem, it's not the company's problem. We will fill in a role, fill in a position, if somebody leaves the near sourcing team and we have such a large stack of resumes that we're able to do this quickly. So now we've got now over 30, 35 accounts in Mexico working for us and we hope to double that number in 2024. So we are going to have a very large pool. We have a formal legal entity, we've got Bank account in Mexico, we've got any in Mexico. Payroll in Mexico. We're paying our taxes in Mexico, so it's all legit. It's all meeting all the guidelines and labor requirements that we do in Mexico. But even with all that, we're able to save US businesses a tremendous amount of money. Dave: That's awesome, and I was just reading about a new Department of Labor ruling making it even more difficult for companies to have contractors. There's always this desire by the federal government to have as few people classified as contractors as possible, and it seems like your model avoids those issues as well, because these aren't even US contractors. Right, that's right. Dan: That's correct. Yeah, they're all our employees but they're through a Mexican entity that we have down in Mexico. I failed to mention that. Each team is supervised by one of the controllers we have here in Texas. That controller is available if the client says, hey, I need to see somebody tomorrow. You know, all right, fine, controller myself can the car and go see the client and a month end all the. We have quality control. The controller here in Houston reviews a month and reports, meets with the team several times during the week. So the controller usually supervises three or four teams and that's how we're splitting it up. So the controller is busy full time. We'll continue to hire local controllers in Houston because we need more supervisors and are supervising these accounting teams in Mexico. So we do have local support and, being the strategic CFO, our specialty is CFOs, so we actually bring that to the table also. So a company, by signing up with us for the near sourcing, yes, they get the team, but they also get the support of our firm at the CFO level. So I've attended many bank meetings, many business owner meetings you know, strategic meetings with business owners because they are our clients and we're able to provide that CFO support by them joining our near sourcing model. Dave: Now I really, I really love that and I, you know, our clients tend to be similar to yours, you know, except all of our clients are privately held. You know median annual revenues probably 60 or $75 million, and so here's a question so there's obviously a cost to professionalizing the back office accounting function. Dan: What are? Dave: some of the financial benefits to having more. So, as I mentioned, there's a cost to professionalizing your back office, right, but I'm sure there's also financial benefit. What are some of the financial benefits that you've seen from companies who do upgrade their accounting function, the quality of their financial statement? I mean, I can imagine some benefits, but what are some of the benefits you've seen? Dan: Great question and oftentimes a new business owner that I meet will ask me the same question. So my response is if you do not do this, if you do not spend money on professional accounting we call US GAAP accounting whatever books and records you're keeping are wrong Period they're wrong. The most common example is cash basis account. If you manufacture widgets or you install something or you have contracts and you do not have the professional US GAAP accounting, you do not have a true picture of your margins Period Because it's cash basis. The world we live in is a world of accrual accounting and I don't want to get into accounting and accruals and all that, but it's a timing difference. The easiest example is an invoice and a counter-sealable. That is, in essence, the most basic example of an accrual. We have a timing difference. That's the economy we live in. Unless you sell the company that does not need professional accounting like we provide, is the guy who has a hamburger stand and sells burgers for cash and receives every day, for example, a little bit bigger than the hamburger stand or hotdog stand. We really can't help. For example, a fast food business that's point of sale. They sell a burger and fries and they collect At the franchisee level. At that small business level, they're not going to benefit from US GAAP accounting. Now the company that owns them and has multiple franchises will, because they've got accruals, they've got vendors and they've got this and they've got that and they buy machines the cash basis transaction. In the most simplest explanation, if I sell you something for cash and I don't have any inventory and I don't have any receivable or any payable or anything else, and I don't buy equipment, they don't need us. But that's a tiny business. That's what the US government calls a micro business. The companies we deal with are not micro businesses. The company we deal with have employees, they've got insurance, they buy equipment, they have inventory or they have complicated services or they have contracts that go over 30 days. There's some nuance and by not having professional accounting, you don't have a good financial statement. If you don't have a good income statement, how do you know your margins? How do you know what you really have? How do you know if you're losing money? By having them, not only do you have good reporting tools, but we've also increased your enterprise value. I've had several investment bankers tell me over the years that the difference between having the professional accounting versus not is at least a multiple of one of enterprise value. That's huge. If you've got a business that does a million dollars of EBITDA, that's a multiple of one. We just added a million dollars of value by bringing a professional accounting to your business. Not only does it help you in the short term which is running the business, because now you understand your margins and you're able to forecast and plan your cash flow and determine if you're going to reinvest in your business but we're also adding value on a long-term basis enterprise value those are the benefits and we're never going to cost you that added value that we bring to the table. We're not going to cost you a million dollars a year, but we're adding that value and what about Most business owners? Dave: will listen yeah and I can also imagine that, let's say, their bank starts requiring reviews or audits. I'm guessing that the audit fees by the accounting firm are probably going to be less if you're providing them professional financial statements that are gap basis already. Dan: That's right. So if somebody, first of all, I would recommend that everybody go through an audit because it's just good to have. But if you're required to have an audit, yes, an audit firm which we do not do audits we're not a CPA firm, but an audit firm will come in and do an audit First of all, they cannot complete an audit if you don't have professional accounting Right. So what the audit firm is going to tell you is you need to hire somebody, get your books and records per US gap so we can audit you. Otherwise, we're going to audit you and you're going to have a qualified opinion because you don't meet any of the accounting principles. And the audit firm cannot do that service for you because they get conflicted out. Dave: They can audit their own work. 30 years ago, I think they had more latitude. Dan: Yes, yeah, before my prior employer, enron, before Enron in 2000,. You know, the Sarbanes Oxley was formed. A lot of accounting principles were changed at that time. I think it was at that time that it was required that if you have to split your services, if you're going to be auditing, you can't be consulting and you can't be auditing your own work. So, and we've been hired by companies that are going through an audit, and audit firms have contacted us and said hey, I have a client, here's what they need help on to get their books and records to this professional level. And we are hired by the client. The audit firm comes in later, after we're done, and they can complete their audit and we're able to save us some money by doing that. Dave: But yes, I know that makes sense. What do you enjoy most about your role with the company? Dan: I love dealing with businesses that trust us and I've got, and most of our clients do, 95% of our clients do, or 99. We may have one or two that don't believe yet because we're still new, but I love getting involved with the business owner or business owners that trust us and they allow us to deliver over time. Because it takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. It'll take three or four months to develop a relationship. It'll develop six or eight months to finally get things really where they're seeing the deliverables. But I love seeing the transformation and we've got many examples in our firm of transformation where a company started with no financial reporting that was accurate to really good financial reporting and cash flow forecasts and budgeting and financial models where we interpret that data and everything's working. So watching that transformation is very rewarding. That's what I love the most and I love dealing with business owners on the operating side where we can add value as well. Dave: Sure, yeah, no, I can certainly relate to that. Well, I can't believe how fast this time has flown by. I've just a couple of kind of fun questions for you. Are you ready for some outside the box questions? Bring it on, I love it Awesome. So let's say you could go back in time and give advice to your 25 year old self. What advice might you give to your 25 year old self with the benefit of you know, the last few decades? Dan: If I were to go back to my 25 year old self, I'd say start saving money early. And that's what I tell my children. We had a discussion over Christmas In your early 20s. Unless you're really smart and talented and I wasn't you don't understand the time value of money and compounding interest. Dave: Yeah. Dan: Like you do now. And if I literally told my kids to go for Christmas, we had this exact same discussion. I said you know, take 25% of your paycheck and put it away in some account that you're never going to touch, yeah, don't even think about it. And by the time you're 50 or 60, you're going to see a huge nest egg and it's going to feel very rewarding. That's something I would do differently. I was. I got married late, you know, I was 34. So I worked hard. In my 20s I was already working for very large companies in nice positions controller roles. In my time I was 30 controller roles. So I was busy with making good money but also spending money, you know, getting the nice. I was really focused on getting the nice car, you know, traveling and, you know, not so focused on planning ahead and planning a family. Then I stumbled onto my beautiful wife and said, oh my God, I got to get married, you know. And then you know, soon after, kids, and then you know the house, and then but so anyway, that's the long response I would say early, mid 25, start saving early. Dave: Okay, yeah, I see I read a study once that said and it was a crazy number Like if you saved a certain you know amount of money you know call it $10,000 a year from the time you were 22 until you were 30, and then you stop saving, you never saved again. You'd have more money, like when you were 65 or seven. Then if you started saving at like 40, and you saved that $10,000 a year for 25 years, like you'd end up with less money than saving for eight years early on, which just demonstrates that whole time value of money. I think Einstein said the compound interest was the most amazing invention in the history of the world, or some crazy thing. Dan: It's crazy that the effect on that dollar saved early on is huge, you know, and I think I would do that different. Dave: Okay, well, here's the last question. I guess I have one and a half questions. I have the last fun one and then the last one will just be if there's anything we did and you covered, that we should have but the fun one is barbecue or Tex-Max barbecue. Okay, that's usually the most common answer. I stole that question. We helped Chris Hans, like the managing partner, and Boiler Miller. We were able to help them launch a podcast, and that's one of his standard questions that I've copied. I find it to be a fun question. Dan: It's a tough one. I almost said Tex-Max it's a tough one, or? Dave: I guess I should have asked you barbecue Tex-Max or authentic Colombian food. Dan: Yeah, I'd still go with barbecue or Tex-Max. Yeah, club with food is okay. I find it to be a little bit blander, but it's okay, that's good, I'm gonna knock it. My Colombian friends will hate me, but I don't know. It's good. Dave: Well, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I? Dan: had. Well, maybe you know one other comment that I'd like to add about our firm, which is a little bit differentiated. Facts is, we have a lot of good international experience, not just myself, but my managing director, oscar Pinoe, cindy Dinn. They both have tremendous audit and international experience, oscar also interesting. If we haven't made it, let me tell you Oscar's story. We actually met in a small town in Argentina 23, 24 years ago when we were both at Weatherford. I hired him when I was in at Weatherford as controller for Latin America and he was an accountant that I hired. He ended up staying at Weatherford for 20 plus years, did very well, grew throughout the. You know the ladder at Weatherford and he left Weatherford a couple years ago and joined our firm. But we've got tremendous international experience, tremendous operational experience that could also add value to companies. Dave: So okay, well, yeah, that is great to know. Well, Dan. And then, if people want to learn more about the services, what's the best place to learn more Best? Dan: place to go to is our webpage, strategiccfocom. There's two C's in the middle there strategiccfocom. Or just call my cell phone. You know I don't mind people call my cell phone 713-501-7481. But we're still small enough that we touch every client I do. I like meeting all our clients and spending time with them. We're very involved with all of them. Myself and our managing directors are available to any one of our clients at any time. So yeah, we'd love to continue Jim's legacy and continue to build this firm. Dave: That's awesome. Well, Dan, thank you again for spending time with me today. I know the listeners are really good. Thank you, David. More and especially this near sourcing model. I think that's really intriguing, and I hope you have a great day. Dan: Thank you very much, appreciate your time and thanks for having me All right. Special Guest: Dan Corredor.

This Flashback Friday is from episode 842 published last Jun 12, 2017. Client and fellow podcaster, Elisabeth Embry joins Jason to discuss the importance of coming to the live events, finding the true value of your properties and what happens when interest rates rise and inventories are low. The upcoming Venture Alliance and Oklahoma City Property Tour and Jason Hartman University Live events are a great way to meet like-minded people who are income property investors. You can share your creative ideas with Jason or any of the investment counselors at these events and there are tried and true professionals who share their real life experience on the panels. Go to JasonHartman.com/Events and sign up today. Key Takeaways: 3:26 In a booming real estate market nobody is making money if they don't have any inventory to sell. 7:01 The quality of properties lowers when property inventories are limited. 9:57 Puerto Rico, are the tax breaks worth the risk? 16:30 Zillow could be getting sued for their Zestimates. 23:40 A Trulia article states houses haven't reached the pre-recession peak. 27:40 To see properties that make sense come to the Oklahoma Property Tour and Jason Hartman University Live Event. 30:45 Will there be three rate hikes by the Federal Reserve in 2017? 35:48 Sarbanes-Oxley had very little effect on Wells Fargo thievery. 40:49 If you are a Jason Hartman client and want to contribute to a mutual project or goal contact your investment counselor. Mentioned in this episode: Renter's Warehouse - Get 3 free months of property management with this link. Jason Hartman Venture Alliance Mastermind Hartman Education The Jetsetter Show Women Investing Network   Follow Jason on TWITTER, INSTAGRAM & LINKEDIN Twitter.com/JasonHartmanROI Instagram.com/jasonhartman1/ Linkedin.com/in/jasonhartmaninvestor/ Call our Investment Counselors at: 1-800-HARTMAN (US) or visit: https://www.jasonhartman.com/ Free Class:  Easily get up to $250,000 in funding for real estate, business or anything else: http://JasonHartman.com/Fund CYA Protect Your Assets, Save Taxes & Estate Planning: http://JasonHartman.com/Protect Get wholesale real estate deals for investment or build a great business – Free Course: https://www.jasonhartman.com/deals Special Offer from Ron LeGrand: https://JasonHartman.com/Ron Free Mini-Book on Pandemic Investing: https://www.PandemicInvesting.com

Blake chats with Brandt Kucharski, former chief accounting officer at GrubHub and current CAO at Ethos Life, about his career journey from public accounting to leading startups through IPOs. They discuss Brandt's pivotal role in taking GrubHub public as one of the first "unicorn" startups, the process of scaling accounting teams and controls, nonprofit work with the Holiday Heroes Foundation, and thoughts on increasing accounting talent amid growing complexity.SponsorShareFile - https://earmarkcpe.promo/sharefileChapters(01:06) - Welcome Brandt Kurcharski to the show (02:40) - Early Career and Joining GrubHub (05:10) - What was the first thing you did at GrubHub? (05:44) - The Journey to IPO (09:54) - What advice would you give a young controller going through an IPO (11:32) - Let's talk about GrubHub's tech stack at the time (15:29) - Building the Accounting Team at GrubHub (18:06) - The smartest thing you did at GrubHub (24:14) - Reflection on GrubHub's Success (25:39) - Biggest mistake you made at GrubHub (27:05) - Size of Your Accounting Team (29:21) - The Merger with Seamless and Going Public Again (31:27) - Let's talk Sarbanes-Oxley (35:05) - The Journey of Grubhub's Second Public Listing (36:12) - The Challenges of Merging and Going Public Again (38:11) - The Role of Charity in Personal Growth (41:22) - Accounting Challenges For a Charity (43:37) - The Journey from Grubhub to Ethos Life (47:53) - Accounting at Ethos vs GrubHub (49:32) - The Impact of Accounting Standards on Business (55:31) - The Accounting Talent Crisis and Possible Solutions (01:01:29) - Thanks for Listening and Remember to Subscribe Sign up to get free CPE for listening to this podcasthttps://earmarkcpe.comDownload the Earmark CPE App Apple: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/earmark-cpe/id1562599728Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.earmarkcpe.appConnect with Our Guest, Brandt KucharskiLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandtkucharski/Connect with Blake Oliver, CPALinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blaketoliverTwitter: https://twitter.com/blaketoliver/

In some minds, accounting and sustainability don't go together. But the truth is, they need to. In order for our economy to stay strong for the future, accounting needs to have a greater focus on sustainability, and my conversation this week dives into exactly what that is going to look like.   In his day job, Okorie Ramsey is the Vice President of Sarbanes/Oxley for Kaiser Foundation Health Plan and Kaiser Foundation Hospitals. In his capacity as a volunteer, Okorie currently serves as the Chairman of the AICPA and has previously served on various nonprofit boards supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion in accounting and finance. This makes him the perfect person to discuss todays topic: sustainability and ESG in the accounting world.    Get full show notes and more information here: https://sensiba.com/resources/

Cyber has been an historically hermetic practice. A dark art. Full of mysteries and presided over by magicians both good and bad. This is a bit of an exaggeration, yet there is some truth to it. Many in our industry knew that the SEC was evaluating the role that cyber risk management and incident disclosure plays in the pricing mechanism for an equity. Many of the participants in GRC, IRM, and Cyber Risk anticipated this before the SEC had even proposed such rules. Boards, C-Suites, and Information security teams within publicly traded companies brought it up occasionally in the year preceding its adoption. Lawyers on K Street actively advocated in the press against enacting such rules, and there is still a hearty back and forth concerning the merits of SEC involvement in cyber risk. But more transparency is a very welcome development. For investors, it's essential. Industry veterans say that this development hearkens back to Sarbanes Oxley, which had very big implications for Governance, Risk, and Compliance. This is likely cyber risk's SOX moment, and the drop date is December 15th of this year on all 10-K filings. The SEC will not look kindly upon boilerplate disclosures, particularly if a cyber attack with significant losses occurs. So where do you start? This segment is sponsored by CyberSaint . Visit https://securityweekly.com/cybersaint to learn more about them! In the leadership and communications section, Building an Effective Information Security Strategy, What Makes a Company Great at Producing Leaders?, 80 Fun Meeting Icebreakers Your Team Will Love, and more! Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/bsw for all the latest episodes! Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/securityweekly Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/secweekly Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/bsw-332

Cyber has been an historically hermetic practice. A dark art. Full of mysteries and presided over by magicians both good and bad. This is a bit of an exaggeration, yet there is some truth to it. Many in our industry knew that the SEC was evaluating the role that cyber risk management and incident disclosure plays in the pricing mechanism for an equity. Many of the participants in GRC, IRM, and Cyber Risk anticipated this before the SEC had even proposed such rules. Boards, C-Suites, and Information security teams within publicly traded companies brought it up occasionally in the year preceding its adoption. Lawyers on K Street actively advocated in the press against enacting such rules, and there is still a hearty back and forth concerning the merits of SEC involvement in cyber risk. But more transparency is a very welcome development. For investors, it's essential. Industry veterans say that this development hearkens back to Sarbanes Oxley, which had very big implications for Governance, Risk, and Compliance. This is likely cyber risk's SOX moment, and the drop date is December 15th of this year on all 10-K filings. The SEC will not look kindly upon boilerplate disclosures, particularly if a cyber attack with significant losses occurs. So where do you start? This segment is sponsored by CyberSaint . Visit https://securityweekly.com/cybersaint to learn more about them! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/bsw-332

Cyber has been an historically hermetic practice. A dark art. Full of mysteries and presided over by magicians both good and bad. This is a bit of an exaggeration, yet there is some truth to it. Many in our industry knew that the SEC was evaluating the role that cyber risk management and incident disclosure plays in the pricing mechanism for an equity. Many of the participants in GRC, IRM, and Cyber Risk anticipated this before the SEC had even proposed such rules. Boards, C-Suites, and Information security teams within publicly traded companies brought it up occasionally in the year preceding its adoption. Lawyers on K Street actively advocated in the press against enacting such rules, and there is still a hearty back and forth concerning the merits of SEC involvement in cyber risk. But more transparency is a very welcome development. For investors, it's essential. Industry veterans say that this development hearkens back to Sarbanes Oxley, which had very big implications for Governance, Risk, and Compliance. This is likely cyber risk's SOX moment, and the drop date is December 15th of this year on all 10-K filings. The SEC will not look kindly upon boilerplate disclosures, particularly if a cyber attack with significant losses occurs. So where do you start? This segment is sponsored by CyberSaint . Visit https://securityweekly.com/cybersaint to learn more about them! In the leadership and communications section, Building an Effective Information Security Strategy, What Makes a Company Great at Producing Leaders?, 80 Fun Meeting Icebreakers Your Team Will Love, and more! Visit https://www.securityweekly.com/bsw for all the latest episodes! Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/securityweekly Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/secweekly Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/bsw-332

Cyber has been an historically hermetic practice. A dark art. Full of mysteries and presided over by magicians both good and bad. This is a bit of an exaggeration, yet there is some truth to it. Many in our industry knew that the SEC was evaluating the role that cyber risk management and incident disclosure plays in the pricing mechanism for an equity. Many of the participants in GRC, IRM, and Cyber Risk anticipated this before the SEC had even proposed such rules. Boards, C-Suites, and Information security teams within publicly traded companies brought it up occasionally in the year preceding its adoption. Lawyers on K Street actively advocated in the press against enacting such rules, and there is still a hearty back and forth concerning the merits of SEC involvement in cyber risk. But more transparency is a very welcome development. For investors, it's essential. Industry veterans say that this development hearkens back to Sarbanes Oxley, which had very big implications for Governance, Risk, and Compliance. This is likely cyber risk's SOX moment, and the drop date is December 15th of this year on all 10-K filings. The SEC will not look kindly upon boilerplate disclosures, particularly if a cyber attack with significant losses occurs. So where do you start? This segment is sponsored by CyberSaint . Visit https://securityweekly.com/cybersaint to learn more about them! Show Notes: https://securityweekly.com/bsw-332

In this episode with Adam Jacob, we discuss Adam's role in the history of the DevOps movement, from creating Chef to becoming CEO of Systems Initiative. You'll learn about configuration management frameworks vs infrastructure as code, how DevOps workflows have evolved over time, and what's next for the industry. Tune-in today!Adam Jacob is an engineering and product innovator, with decades of experience designing, building, and managing large production systems. Adam is the Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder of System Initiative.Adam previously co-founded Chef Software, was the original author of Chef, served as CTO, and on the board of directors. Chef grew out of HJK Solutions, an automated infrastructure consultancy responsible for helping build some of the earliest large-scale production cloud infrastructures. A systems administrator at heart, Adam has also been responsible for internal corporate automation, Sarbanes-Oxley compliance efforts, and a whole lot of systems automation.

Welcome to Count Me In, with your host, Adam Larson. In this episode, Adam is joined by Tim Hedley, the Executive in Residence at Fordham University and Shari Littan, Director, Corporate Reporting Research & Thought Leadership at IMA.  Join this thought-provoking discussion as they delve into the importance of internal controls, the evolving landscape of sustainability reporting, and the challenges and benefits organizations face in adopting sustainable business practices.Discover how the COSO framework, the gold standard for reliable reporting, has been adapted to include non-financial reporting objectives, aligning with the rise of sustainability and ESG reporting. Explore critical trends in the world of ESG reporting, from increasing regulations to stakeholder engagement and supply chain transparency.Learn from Tim and Shari as they share their insights on the challenges organizations face in implementing sustainable practices and balancing short-term profits with long-term sustainability goals. Understand the significance of internal controls in providing a basis for external assurance and building stakeholder trust in reported information.Join Tim and Shari for a live event Nov 30 - Dec 1 in NYC. Register todayFull Episode Transcript:< Intro > Adam:            Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. In today's episode, joining us are two guest experts. Tim Hedley, who is Executive-in-Residence at Fordham University, and Shari Littan, Director, Corporate Reporting, Research and Thought Leadership at IMA. Our discussion revolves around the importance of internal controls and sustainability reporting. And how they enhance trust, accountability, and reliability of the reported information.  Tim and Shari share insights from the COSO framework. Which was developed to help improve confidence in all types of data and information. The landscape of sustainability reporting is constantly evolving, with shifting regulatory requirements and increased stakeholder expectations. We explore crucial trends; such as the focus on materiality and risk assessments, stakeholder engagement, supply chain transparency, and evolving reporting metrics. Let's get started, with this enlightening conversation.  < Music > Adam:            Shari, Tim, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. We're really excited to be talking about COSO, internal control, and everything in that whole ESG world. But just for our listeners, who may be unfamiliar, you could've, probably, have heard the term COSO, or ICSR, and those things before, but maybe you're not familiar with those terms. Maybe, Shari, you could take a little bit of time and define, maybe, a high-level overview of what COSO is, the significant, internal control framework, and the purpose of the new documents. Shari:             I'd be happy to, thanks, Adam, it's great to be here. So COSO stands for Committee of Sponsoring Organizations and it came about in the late 1980s. It is a collaboration of five accountancy and auditing organizations. There's the American Accounting Association, which is an academic organization, primarily. AICPA, everyone is familiar. IMA, where we sit, and we primarily focus on the accountants and finance professionals in business, the in-house folks are ours. Institute of Internal Auditors, and FEI, Financial Executives International. So those five organizations make up COSO. COSO came about in the late 1980s, amid what was then the savings and loans crisis, and there was concern that the profession needed to do better. That we were starting to see major accounting failures, disclosure, litigation, regulation, questions. Are we doing the right things in the profession?" So the five accountancy organizations got together, and they said, "How are we going to resolve this? How are we going to promote trust and accountability in what we do, as a profession?" The focus became on this concept of internal controls, which we'll get to.  So in '92, after that, the COSO, as an organization, produced its first internal control framework. And then we can move forward to 1990s, late 1990s, 2000, the Enron, WorldCom's era, which led to Sarbanes-Oxley. And Sarbanes-Oxley, rather than looking at the substance of what a company needs to disclose, again, looked at the idea of governance process, auditing, and said, "In order to produce financial reports to the markets, you need to focus on your systems and your controls. You need management to speak to it, in your reporting system. You need auditors to address controls." We had the PCAOP. So we have this Sarbanes-Oxley, which created this idea of internal controls over financial reporting. And, although, Sarbanes Oxley didn't specifically say, "You must use the COSO framework." It was considered the best thing around, and it's become the gold standard in how to produce reliable financial or corporate reporting in more general. Now, in 2013, the framework was refreshed, we got a new internal control framework. And what it did, in the 2013 refresh, is it added the idea of non-financial reporting objectives. That was around the same time, about 10 years ago, when we started to see all kinds of sustainability integrated, ESG, reporting frameworks. And, so, though not express, what the framework did, in its refresh, was say "Yes, this is completely applicable to these types of activities and reporting." And, so, that leads us to where we are, today. Where, earlier, in 2023 we issued the internal control over sustainability reporting publication. And what the authors did, in that publication, was we looked at the existing internal control framework and said, "Okay, now we're seeing an acceleration of ESG or sustainability reporting and activities, performance and activities.  And that means we need good information, and that means we need quality information and transparency. Let's look at the COSO Internal Control Framework, and see how we can interpret it and apply it to these new forms of reporting. Adam:            Shari, I think that's a great overview. And, as you mentioned, there's the ever evolving nature of this new type of non-financial reporting, ESG reporting. There are shifts in regulatory compliance. We were just speaking before we started recording how this could change, or that could change, or this regulatory body can make a statement, at this moment, at this time, how this is constantly changing.  And, Tim, maybe, I'll ask you, how do you see this landscape changing? And what should organizations be, particularly, aware of, especially, with the ever evolving nature and things constantly moving? Tim:               Well, Adam, thank you, and thank you for having me here. The sustainability reporting landscape has rapidly changed, particularly, recently, to meet stakeholder expectation, and government regulations. And, Adam, your question could be an entire podcast, or a big section of this podcast if we had that kind of time, but I do see some critical trends, just some of the ones, from my perspective.  I mean, many people are out there, I'm sure Shari's got all kinds of ideas of what those trends might be. But there are some that just come to mind, for me. I think the biggest one that I think about a lot, and certainly what I experience in the classroom, and then talking to people who are in the field of sustainability reporting, some of the people I work with in different contexts, I think the first one is increasing regulation.Regulatory bodies, worldwide, are increasing their focus on sustainability reporting. And, personally, I think we should expect ever more stringent reporting requirements. And an interesting case in point, I think, is under the new California Climate Corporate Data Accountability Act. U.S. companies with annual revenues of $1 billion or more, in the State of California, for report both their direct and indirect greenhouse gas emissions, in the next few years. I think that's a huge change and really indicative of the kinds of things that we can expect going forward.  I think next is, probably, increased investor pressure, I have no doubt about that. Institutional investors are placing more emphasis on sustainability factors, while making investment decisions. And, actually, I just saw an actual run of this, recently, last month, actually, they are employing very structured analysis using very detailed sustainability factors. So I think there's going to be more and more demand for increased disclosures, and that's not going to go away anytime soon. I think we're going to see more focus on meaningful materiality and risk assessments. People are paying a lot of attention to ensuring there are robust materiality and risk assessments, that identify and prioritize issues that are most relevant to businesses and to stakeholders. Stakeholder engagement will increasingly be more important.  Engaging with stakeholders now is critical, but, I think, it's only going to become ever more so, as we move through this process. There appears to be a much keener focus on greenwashing, and I, personally, think this is a huge problem for us. I think it's actually gotten to the point, where it seems that the perception of greenwashing is causing some pushback in this space and, actually, almost threatening the integrity of the effort. I think we're going to have to think a lot more about honest transparency, in this process. Do we want people to actually buy into this and trust the process, and the kinds of things, this year, I was just talking about? I think I'm leaning directly toward that notion of more honest transparency. I think there's going to be a greater focus on supply chain transparency. Particularly around human rights, DEI, environmental impact, all these kinds of things. I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg in this space. I think reporting, metrics will continue to change. The metrics that investors and stakeholders focus on are changing really fast. We are seeing a great deal of movement in the EU, in particular. For example, the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive, which went into effect this past January, it's extending the requirement to report on sustainability management from a select number of companies in the EU to nearly all companies in the EU. Except these little micro companies, I guess. So, again, a lot of movement here, a lot of stuff is changing. My bottom line, I mean, I could keep listing these things. But my bottom line is that sustainable reporting is dynamic, it's always changing, and, as professionals, we must stay informed about changes in regulations, investor perceptions, and societal expectations.Shari:             Can I add just one thing to what Tim said, and that is we tend to focus, or we have tended to focus, when we think about corporate reporting on public companies. Because naturally there are securities regulations both in the U.S. and in various jurisdictions around the world. But one thing that we are seeing in the world of sustainability, or ESG information, is that it is going to affect small and medium-sized companies. Maybe not direct corporate disclosure, but to their commercial customers into supply chain. We're actually seeing where a large public company, for example, has made net-zero commitments or other kind of commitments. And they talk about that in their public materials, and it goes into their ratings, et cetera. Well, they turn around and turn to their suppliers and say, "If you want to sell to us, we want your carbon footprint data. We want your modern slavery DE&I data. And we're seeing, in a positive way, in certain places, where the large commercial buyer is working along with the smaller suppliers. The component, the agricultural companies, to say, "Let's find ways that we can work together."  And it has become a competitive advantage for non-public companies to be able to say, "Not only can I deliver your components, but I can deliver your components along with quality information." We're seeing supplier audits in this area starting to come up, or industry collaborations where they're setting standards. So it's not only public companies to think about. Tim:               It's not just the public companies, because I've had conversations with a lot of organizations, they're asking for my help in responding to their customers. And if they're part of the supply chain, they will, certainly, have to disclose Scope 1, 2, & 3 emissions. Shari:             Exactly. Tim:               And one of the problems they have is they have no clue, what in the world that company is talking about. They don't even know what the starting point is. We're talking about internal controls over sustainability reporting, this is wonderful stuff. But if you're a small organization, that's never even heard of this space, that has no idea how to report. A lot more education is going to be necessary for that upstream and downstream indirect emissions providers. I've had people call me up and say, "They're asking, now, my employees, how far do they drive to work? What kind of a car do they drive?" And all of these kinds of things, and it's very confusing for, in particular Scope 1, Scope 3, emissions information providers. Like "How in the world do I capture this stuff?" And, Shari, you're absolutely right, large organizations can't get where they want to get to with their reporting, unless the entire value chain comes on board. Adam:            That makes a lot of sense, and there's going to be so much pressure from the consumers and regulatory bodies. And I can imagine it's overwhelming for any organization. Maybe somebody is listening to this and saying, "I know I need to do something." And, so, maybe, we can define what some of the benefits are to organizations and some advantages, if they can apply the sustainability business, the internal control integrated framework, to their organization.Shari:             Well, I will say that, first of all, one of the great benefits of looking to the COSO framework, or ICSR as we're referring to it in shorthand, is that we already know how to do a lot of this. We have the ability to leverage what we already know about building good governance systems, and controls, and processes, and oversight into our company systems, and looking at the information flow. We can train, think about training our board, and our members, but we already have a lot of the tools, and the know-how to address the concerns. It's not as esoteric or new, it really can be rooted in what we already do. Second, another great benefit is that, although, we think about COSO Internal Control with respect to external financial reporting. When you actually get into the framework, it is enterprise wide, it is holistic.  If you want good reporting, well, then, you need good information, and that means you are tracking your activities, and what your company is doing. And if the company is taking steps to actually become more sustainable in their performance. Of how they source energy, and how they human resources, and take care of waste, and all of those things. So it runs throughout an entire organization.  And the thing that I find is that when you think about it holistically, you start with the concept of purpose. So if you look at the publication, you look at the framework, you look at principle one, a commitment to ethical behavior, of being a good corporate citizen. And what is your purpose?  Why does your company or organization exist in the world?  What are you aiming to achieve? Why should all of your investors, and stakeholders, and employees, stay with you?  What are they going to get out of this; with respect to performance, and activities, and returns? So it leverages a reexamination, it leads to a reexamination, I should say. Why does our organization exist?  What are we doing, and are we doing these things efficiently? Are we doing them effectively? When I first started writing this publication, when I was tapped to become part of the authorship team. I said, "Internal controls and sustainability, well, that feels a little apples and oranges, to me." But, in fact, it's really about focusing on goals. It's focusing on purpose, and objectives, and how the company achieves those, and the information that it uses to decide how it's going to use these resources. Tim:               And I think I'll add something because I thought that was a great explanation by Shari. The bottom line is, from my perspective, I think the framework we're dancing or advocating and what has been put together with respect to internal control and sustainable reporting, it's comprehensive. It has widespread acceptance, it focuses correctly, in my belief, on risk management. It's very adaptable. When I read the publication that Shari co-authored, it's absolutely adaptable. We had with the internal control, the Internal Control Integrated Framework, absolutely adaptable, and it works perfectly here. And, really, most importantly, it has absolute global applicability Shari:             Yes, when I hear Tim say that global applicability is that there are so many regulators, and policymakers, and standard setters, and all sorts of organizations that are saying, "Here's what you need to report." It's a lot on the what to report, but this gives a framework of method of how. Tim:               Yes, and it does a good job with that. Adam:            I think you've given a great explanation about all the advantages and how it benefits. But I can't imagine that it's an easy process, and there are got to be challenges that people can encounter along the way. Maybe we can discuss a few of those challenges, to help people feel at ease. Tim:               When I was thinking through this, you can talk about some of the challenges. But, I think, it might make sense to talk about what some of the benefits are before we got to the challenges, perhaps, because I found that significant. I think the first, at least, from my perspective, the first benefit is enhanced reputation. A commitment to a purpose-driven business can enhance an organization's reputation, there's very little doubt about that. And there's a fair amount to thought leadership research, and surveys, and what have you, that support what I just said. If you look at GM, you look at Procter & Gamble, those are great examples of companies, in their sustainability report that have detailed their corporate purpose in very explicit ways, and easy to read, and make a lot of sense. And really I tell you in this space, there's been a paradigm shift. From just being a shareholder-first mentality, to say, "Hey, well, you know what, there are a lot of stakeholders." I think through this process you can gain a competitive advantage. Gain business practices, it can help recruit, and retain talent, just for one example. They can foster innovation. They can lead to development of new products and services. Think about electric vehicles, think about solar, think about power storage. These are all kinds of industries that we were not even really thinking much about not that many years ago, at least, not in a serious way. They can provide access to new markets and opportunities. And one thing I found very important, certainly, as my work over the last 25 years in the governance space and what have you, I can go a long way to increasing stakeholder trust and engagements. It can also have significant cost savings. Case in point is 3M's, 3Ps-Pollution Prevention Pays.And if you look at a sustainability report you'll see that, "Hey, this has saved billions of dollars since its inception." And they do a good job now of highlighting it, even though this was before we were really talking about sustainability, and ESG, and these things, and they were on top of some of the stuff. Risk mitigation, sustainable practice if well executed, it can mitigate environmental, social, and governance risk, ESG risks. It can help avoid costly reputational damage, integrity breakdowns, governmental scrutiny, fines and penalties, all kinds of benefits. Help provide access to capital, companies that demonstrate strong sustainable performance. Can often find it easier to access capital from socially responsible investors and from institutions that prioritize sustainable investments. Can lead to long-term value creation by producing a more stable and sustainable business model, less risk, and what I would say are higher valuations. And I think that's the greatest selling point for, actually, doing this stuff in a very serious way. It really is all about long-term value creation. And, of course, finally, I would say it can differentiate your brand. If you embrace sustainability and corporate purpose, you can distinguish yourself from competitors and build a brand that resonates with your consumers. Remember, it's all about the consumers in the end. There are some challenges which you had mentioned earlier, when we talked about it earlier. I think one of the biggest ones, the initial investment costs for sustainable products and efforts can be very expensive. Perhaps beyond the grasp of some, but well worth the investment for many. Understanding shifting consumer preferences is not always straightforward. Encouraging consumers to choose sustainable options over conventional ones can be slow and a challenging journey. Sometimes these sustainable options are perceived, sometimes, as being more expensive. Regulatory compliance can be demanding. It may require continuous adjustments to business operations. Clients with changing environmental regulations and standards can require continuous adjustments to your business operations. Which may pose significant operational challenges. Another big one is balancing short-term and long-term objectives it's often tricky. Organizations may, counter a lot of pressure to prioritize immediate profits over long-term sustainability, creating both internal and external pressure. And some may, I'm afraid, think you have to sacrifice one for the other. And, Adam, I don't buy into that, I don't believe that. But a lot of people do believe that, it's an either/or kind of thing. There are significant resource limitations above and beyond the budget I mentioned earlier. Things like renewable energy sources, sometimes, are hard to find. Sourcing sustainable materials can be really difficult, not to mention human resources and talent acquisition can be very difficult. Complex global operations are challenging. Multinationals might face headwinds in implementing uniform sustainability standards across diverse regulatory environments, cultural norms, socio-economic situations. Further global supply chains are incredibly complex. Much more so than domestic organizations, and requires a great deal of collaboration to make this work. And, then, finally, in this area, I would say the greenwashing concerns, we kind of touched upon it earlier. But with the focus on sustainability, there is a risk of an organization engaging in greenwashing. Where they make misleading claims about the environmental benefits of their products or operations. Such practices can lead to reputational damage and loss of trust among stakeholders.  I know I've talked twice about greenwashing, but it is a huge problem. And it really is undermining a lot of the good efforts taking place in this area. So to help ensure long-term viability and success, I think it's important to develop a comprehensive strategy that aligns sustainability goals with the overall corporate purpose. Shari:             Listening to Tim, I'm reminded of a story that was shared with me a few years ago, now. It was my colleague in an agricultural company. And, of course, the questions came to them about carbon footprint, "Are you measuring greenhouse gases, et cetera?"  And, so, they started to do that measurement, the inventory, instituting their processes. And in doing that what they discovered is a huge waste of water because they were looking at how they produce and operate in a more holistic, as you say, totality.  And, so, in trying to quantify and measure their carbon footprint they ended up changing their entire system of water and reduced it by a lot. So they ended up having gains, by extension, to new streams of information, that they hadn't been looking at before. Tim:               It really is an exercise in navel-gazing, looking deep inside yourself, to actually do this stuff. And it's not an easy process, but that's a great example of where there are all kinds of benefits, well, and it's unintended benefits, from actually going through this process, and a lot of discovery takes place. You learn a lot about yourself. Adam:            It really sounds like you can learn a lot. And I think you've kind of illustrated, my last question was going to be around, how does this framework play a crucial role in ensuring effective governance, and rules, and internal control systems. Especially, concerning sustainable business practices, and what you just displayed there, Shari, for us, was a great example of that. And if there are any other examples you guys can share, I think that would be really helpful, and encouraging as people are thinking about this and looking at it. Because it's inevitable that it will be affecting every organization. Shari:             Yes, here's another example that I thought of, when you're getting more into the risk and the overall reasons, to think about sustainable business. But I do remember if you drive along highways now, how often do you see charging stations. In fact, I saw, not far from where I live, a former gas station had completely changed into an electric vehicle station. And I thought somebody else in that supply chain, if you create fuel pumps, you might want to think about changing that business model, and that's what the information can bring forward. Tim:               Yes, earlier I had mentioned that notion of a robust, risk, and materiality assessment. And just adding on to what Shari was saying, I had a conversation not long ago with a tire manufacturer. So they were doing deep dives and taking it very seriously. But they started understanding things that were hugely important and material, they'd never thought about before. For example, when you drive down the road, your tread wears out of your tire. You don't think about, "Where does that rubber go?" Maybe it goes in the atmosphere, it goes on the street, it goes on the side of the road. And suddenly, wow, they're materiality mapping and that process is hugely dynamic. The risk assessment is dynamic, and I think people are looking for that dynamic approach to these kinds of things. You can be an energy company just delivering electricity for a municipality, and suddenly you start getting into solar panels. And, suddenly, "Wow, we got new risk, where are they sourced? Where is this stuff coming from? What does that supply chain look like?" So a lot of interesting things that actually pop out of going through this process. And a lot of it leads to much better decisions and also uncovering important things and cost savings, it's all there. Adam:            Tim, Shari, do you have any final thoughts for our audience? Shari:             Well, as we wrap up, I want to just bring it back to why the internal control, and the COSO framework, and that publication, in thinking about all these new types of activities and new types of information, that has risk associated with it. And there are business risks, but there are also risks in the information. For example, we talk about supply chain, so in order to account for Scope 1, not Scope 1 because that's your data. But Scope 2 and Scope 3, you, by definition, need to get information that doesn't come from your system that you're responsible for, it has to come from a third party. So there's risk in that information. So we need to think about other controls. We need to think about affiliates, or other investees, or companies that we outsource to, that we used to consider immaterial for financial reporting purposes, but now we need their information. Green Bonds, is another, where we're affirming to our lender that we are in compliance with certain ESG metrics and then they lower our interest rate, that's informational risk.  We also have the risk of estimation and expectations, and how we measure prospective assumptions and leads to that kind of reporting. I think that's really huge because so much of sustainability reporting, including some of the mandatory disclosure requirements coming out of Europe, double materiality, impact accounting, it means estimating the future. That's what sustainability is all about. Do we have the resources made available to us in the future? Can we count on that?  Are stakeholders willing to make those available? So, anyway, it goes to the question of estimating the future, which makes many, in traditional accounting, uncomfortable. They don't like to disclose and report on the future and our assumptions. But that's a necessary part of creating the measurement techniques in order to effectuate all these new demands, for reporting all these new KPIs. What I'm saying is that by following what we already know how to do, By leveraging the frameworks that we already have, it can highlight and help direct us address the innovative areas, the information, the use of digital technology, perhaps, to bring this about in a reliable way, and avoid the greenwashing that Tim has highlighted for us. Tim:               Yes, I think the things that you talked about resonate with a lot of things we talked about earlier. Those things are all about long-term value creation. Shari:             Agreed, absolutely. Tim:               You got to be thinking about the future. And, also, one of the things that I see from the work you've done here and the internal controls of sustainability reporting. I think it's going to go a long way to helping with the notion of external assurance of this information. Because now we'll have internal controls in place that make some sense, that can be tested in and of themselves, it gives a lot more confidence in what's being reported. Because stakeholders are going to take some of this stuff with a grain of salt. Unless someone actually opines it, "Hey, wow, you know what they're telling you it seems accurate enough. It's doing what it's supposed to do."  I think that's going to be a huge underpinning for the document we've been discussing here. Because I think it's going to go a long way to enabling that. And unless you have that third-party attestation, the trust may not be there until we get to that point. I don't know, that's just my prediction. Adam:            Well, I appreciate you guys sharing your final thoughts and sharing all your insights with our audience, today. And thanks so much, again, for coming on the podcast. Shari:             Thanks so much, Adam. Tim, it's been a pleasure.  < Outro > Announcer:    This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders, from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting in finance education, visit IMA's website at www.imainet.org.

The Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 protects whistleblowers who report financial wrongdoing at publicly traded companies. 18 U.S.C. § 1514A. When a whistleblower invokes the Act and claims he was fired because of his report, his claim is "governed by the legal burdens of proof set forth in section 42121(b) of title 49, United States Code." 18 U.S.C. § 1514A(b)(2)(C). Under that incorporated framework, a whistleblowing employee meets his burden by showing that his protected activity "was a contributing factor in the unfavorable personnel action alleged in the complaint." 49 U.S.C. § 42121(b)(2)(B)(iii). If the employee meets that burden, the employer can prevail only if it "demonstrates by clear and convincing evidence that the employer would have taken the same unfavorable personnel action in the absence of that behavior." Id. § 42121(b)(2)(B)(iv). The Question Presented is: Under the burden-shifting framework that governs Sarbanes-Oxley cases, must a whistleblower prove his employer acted with a "retaliatory intent" as part of his case in chief, or is the lack of "retaliatory intent" part of the affirmative defense on which the employer bears the burden of proof?

The results from this year's Global Technology Audit Risks Survey, conducted by Protiviti and The Institute of Internal Auditors, reveal a complex and multifaceted landscape of technology risks. Cybersecurity is the top priority and by a wide margin. AI is an emerging risk with gaps in organizational preparedness and audit proficiency. The talent gap in IT is a growing concern and data privacy is a growing regulatory challenge.Protiviti and The IIA recently published a research report on the results of this survey, Navigating a Technology Risk Filled Horizon. For this episode, we talk with Protiviti Managing Directors Lindsay Gleeson and Angelo Poulikakos about the results of the survey and their insights about the findings and the trends they reveal.Angelo is global leader of Protiviti's Technology Audit and Advisory practice. His specific areas of concentration include technology risk management, cybersecurity, IT compliance, internal audit and automation. Angelo has more than 18 years of experience in all facets of internal controls and frequently works with CIOs, CISOs, CAEs and other leaders to mature their technology risk management and audit capabilities.Lindsay is a leader in Protiviti's IT, internal audit and financial advisory practice. She has over 16 years of extensive experience with a focus in audit consulting and project management. She has managed and executed numerous projects related to internal controls and rationalizations; Sarbanes-Oxley, SOC2, NIST and HIPAA regulatory compliance pre-implementation reviews; and automation and information security governance assessments.For more information, read Navigating a Technology Risk Filled Horizon.Contact Angelo at angelo.poulikakos@protiviti.com.Contact Lindsay at lindsay.gleeson@protiviti.com.To request a transcript of this episode, contact kevin.donahue@protiviti.com.

Dr. Fene Osakwe, Best-selling Author, Global Speaker, CISO & Career Coach | The Riderflex Podcast Dr. Fene Osakwe is a highly acclaimed technology professional renowned for his expertise in the realms of cybersecurity, IT governance, IT strategy, risk management, and Sarbanes–Oxley implementations. With a stellar career spanning over a decade, he has evolved from his early days as a penetration tester to becoming a prominent figure in the field, sought after as a conference speaker on both the national and international stages. His impressive portfolio includes consultancy work for financial institutions, telecoms, FinTech companies, state governments, and universities, where he imparts his knowledge and holds sway with over 10 globally recognized IT certifications. Driven by a passion for mentoring, he guides countless aspiring professionals in their journey from fresh graduates to executive management, mirroring his own rapid ascent. In 2021, his leadership and innovation prowess was officially recognized with an honorary Doctor of Business Administration from the Swiss School of Business Geneva. Moreover, Dr. Fene's contributions extend to the literary realm, as he is currently authoring his first book on accelerated career success. His accomplishments culminated in an invitation to the exclusive Forbes Technology Council in June 2022, a testament to his extraordinary depth, diversity, and wealth of experience in the realm of information technology and cybersecurity. As an advisory board member on numerous boards, both within and outside Africa, Dr. Fene Osakwe continues to make an indelible mark on the technology landscape. Meet Dr. Fene Osakwe: https://www.feneosakwe.com/?v=7516fd43adaa Watch the Full Interview: https://youtu.be/Dhhau4L6ijY Gain valuable insights on entrepreneurship, leadership, and hiring with "The Riderflex Guide: Inspiring & Hiring" - 30+ years of experience packed into one book. Get your copy today at: https://tinyurl.com/Amazon-Riderflex Listen to real stories from successful business leaders, CEOs, and entrepreneurs on the Riderflex podcast hosted by CEO Steve Urban. The Riderflex Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5NDLaxEqkMsnlYrc5ntAPw Trust Riderflex, a premier headhunter and employment agency based in Colorado, to recruit top talent for your team. Visit https://riderflex.com/ to learn more about our executive recruiting services. #TechInnovator #CybersecurityExpert #LeadershipJourney #MentorshipMatters #ForbesTechCouncil #riderflexpodcast #careeradvice #Podcast #entrepreneur #ColoradoRecruitingFirm #recruiting  #Colorado #National #Riderflex #TalentAcquisition #Employment #JobTips #ResumeTips Podcast Sponsor: Kura Home Services, Air Duct Cleaning & Home Maintenance. For All your Home Maintenance needs!   https://www.kurahome.com/kura-home-services-colorado/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/riderflex/support

In this episode, we dive into SOX compliance – specifically, the findings of and key takeaways from Protiviti's latest Sarbanes-Oxley Compliance Survey. The results of our research are featured in our just-released report, The Evolution of SOX: Tech Adoption and Cost Focus Amid Business Changes, Cyber and ESG Mandates.Offering their insights and perspectives are Protiviti Managing Directors Andrew Struthers-Kennedy and Angelo Poulikakos. Andrew is the global leader of Protiviti's Internal Audit and Financial Advisory practice, and Angelo is the global leader of the firm's Technology Audit practice.Read Protiviti's latest SOX Compliance Survey report here: www.protiviti.com/soxsurvey.Contact Andrew at andrew.struthers-kennedy@protiviti.com.Contact Angelo at angelo.poulikakos@protiviti.com.To request a transcript of this episode, contact kevin.donahue@protiviti.com.

By Adam Turteltaub There has been, to say the least, a great deal of controversy over the US Department of Justice's plan to require compliance officers to provide a certification as a part of corporate resolutions. Many fear that it could lead to significant legal risk for compliance teams and fewer individuals willing to assume compliance roles. Jonny Frank, Partner, and Kat Nolan, Senior Consultant, at StoneTurn are not concerned.  They point out that in the 20+ years since Sarbanes-Oxley, despite the predictions, there have not been the lawsuits and empty CFO and CEO chairs that some feared. Instead, they believe, these certifications could lead to increased power and prestige for chief compliance officers. In the podcast they lay out a five-step process for certification: Select a framework for the certification criteria that the organization will grade itself against. Conduct a scenario-based compliance risk assessment. Assess and design key control activities. Create a sub-certification waterfall: set accountable owners throughout organization to certify compliance effectiveness in their area. Arrange for a third party or internal audit to assess the program. Listen in to learn more, including the importance of documenting your processes.

Welcome to the Accounting Influencers Podcast, going live every Monday to 150 countries and 30,000 accounting practitioners, fintech specialists and influencers in the accountancy, CPA and bookkeeping space.In this episode of the Accounting influencers Podcast, Okorie Ramsey discusses his role and responsibilities as part of the global board supporting approximately 700,000 members worldwide highlighting three priorities: driving innovation, instilling integrity in sustainability areas, and supporting the next generation of accountants and the importance of leveraging technology, such as AI, to advance the profession and attract top-tier talent. He also addresses challenges in the pipeline of accounting professionals, including birth rates, education costs, and unclear career paths. Ramsey advocates for diversity in the profession and building bigger tables to accommodate different perspectives.YoutubeYou can watch this episode and more on our YouTube Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/@accountinginfluencers Guest BioOkorie Ramsey is a distinguished finance and accounting professional with a rich and impactful career. He has made significant contributions to the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA) through various volunteer roles, including serving on the AICPA Board of Directors and the Association Board of Directors. Currently, at Kaiser Permanente, Ramsey holds a crucial position overseeing SOX and Model Audit Rule compliance, ensuring effective internal controls over financial reporting for the integrated healthcare enterprise. With 14 years of experience at Kaiser Permanente, he has held diverse roles, including Vice President, Finance Compliance Officer, and Director of Sarbanes/Oxley and Financial Governance. Ramsey's passion for mentoring, demonstrated by his involvement with the National Association of Black Accountants and his role as an adjunct professor, reflects his commitment to fostering growth in others.◣━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━◢If you like the show, we'd truly appreciate a review on whatever platform you listen. We'd love to get to know you!Main show website. For access to every single show with full shownotes: https://accountinginfluencers.com/podcastFor announcements of published shows, tagging guest so you can build your network and offer feedback on the show: https://www.linkedin.com/company/accountinginfluencersFor videos of all podcast interviews and bonus video content: https://bit.ly/AI-youtubehttps://www.instagram.com/accinfluencershttps://twitter.com/accinfluencershttps://www.facebook.com/accountinginfluencersThanks to our sponsors:Accountex. Accountex will return to ExCeL London UK on the 10-11 May 2023. Bringing together 250+ top fintech companies and cutting-edge start-ups, visitors can browse new software and stay up to date with the latest technology, tools and ideas in accountancy and finance. Alongside the exhibition, attendees will take away actionable tips from the CPD-accredited seminar programme, led by 200+ thought leaders shaping the profession.Accountex is Europe's largest annual event for the accounting and finance profession. It attracts 8,000+ attendees and 250+ exhibitors. Attendees can get up to 16 CPD hours with 200+ free seminar sessions across 12 theatres.

Welcome to the Accounting Influencers Podcast, going live every Monday to 150 countries and 30,000 accounting practitioners, fintech specialists and influencers in the accountancy, CPA and bookkeeping space.In the latest episode of the Accounting Influencers Podcast, Randy Johnston shares insights from his experience at AICPA Engage. The event was abuzz with discussions around artificial intelligence (AI), with several major players in attendance. Randy highlights the significance of the event, including the 40 under 40 influencer meeting and the recognition of the most powerful women in accounting. He mentions engaging conversations with CEOs and CTOs, delving into product strategies and insights. Over the years, the focus of the event has shifted from low-level technology to management strategy, reflecting the fast-paced changes in the industry. Randy also addresses concerns about independence in the profession, undisclosed relationships, and the impact of private equity acquisitions on operations and support. He emphasizes the importance of independent advisors and the need for transparency in the industry.YoutubeYou can watch this episode and more on our YouTube Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/@accountinginfluencers Guest BioRandy Johnson is a seasoned finance and accounting professional with an impressive 20 years of experience in the field. With a strong background in credit and collections spanning 10 years, Randy has honed his skills in effectively managing financial transactions and mitigating risks. For the past decade, Randy has focused on accounting, taking on diverse projects and assignments as a Salaried Professional consultant for Robert Half, Inc. Throughout this time, Randy has gained valuable expertise in various accounting areas, including sales and use tax, property tax, Sarbanes-Oxley auditing, and general ledger accounting. With a comprehensive understanding of financial processes and regulations, Randy brings a wealth of knowledge to his roles and consistently delivers accurate and reliable results.◣━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━◢If you like the show, we'd truly appreciate a review on whatever platform you listen. We'd love to get to know you!Main show website. For access to every single show with full shownotes: https://accountinginfluencers.com/podcastFor announcements of published shows, tagging guest so you can build your network and offer feedback on the show: https://www.linkedin.com/company/accountinginfluencersFor videos of all podcast interviews and bonus video content: https://bit.ly/AI-youtubehttps://www.instagram.com/accinfluencershttps://twitter.com/accinfluencershttps://www.facebook.com/accountinginfluencersThanks to our sponsors:Accountex. Accountex will return to ExCeL London UK on the 10-11 May 2023. Bringing together 250+ top fintech companies and cutting-edge start-ups, visitors can browse new software and stay up to date with the latest technology, tools and ideas in accountancy and finance. Alongside the exhibition, attendees will take away actionable tips from the CPD-accredited seminar programme, led by 200+ thought leaders shaping the...

Pablo Molina, associate vice president of information technology and chief information security officer at Drexel University and adjunct professor at Georgetown University, leads the conversation on the implications of artificial intelligence in higher education.   FASKIANOS: Welcome to CFR's Higher Education Webinar. I'm Irina Faskianos, vice president of the National Program and Outreach here at CFR. Thank you for joining us. Today's discussion is on the record, and the video and transcript will be available on our website, CFR.org/Academic, if you would like to share it with your colleagues. As always, CFR takes no institutional positions on matters of policy. We are delighted to have Pablo Molina with us to discuss implications of artificial intelligence in higher education. Dr. Molina is chief information security officer and associate vice president at Drexel University. He is also an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. Dr. Molina is the founder and executive director of the International Applies Ethics in Technology Association, which aims to raise awareness on ethical issues in technology. He regularly comments on stories about privacy, the ethics of tech companies, and laws related to technology and information management. And he's received numerous awards relating to technology and serves on the board of the Electronic Privacy Information Center and the Center for AI and Digital Policy. So Dr. P, welcome. Thank you very much for being with us today. Obviously, AI is on the top of everyone's mind, with ChatGPT coming out and being in the news, and so many other stories about what AI is going to—how it's going to change the world. So I thought you could focus in specifically on how artificial intelligence will change and is influencing higher education, and what you're seeing, the trends in your community. MOLINA: Irina, thank you very much for the opportunity, to the Council on Foreign Relations, to be here and express my views. Thank you, everybody, for taking time out of your busy schedules to listen to this. And hopefully, I'll have the opportunity to learn much from your questions and answer some of them to the best of my ability. Well, since I'm a professor too, I like to start by giving you homework. And the homework is this: I do not know how much people know about artificial intelligence. In my opinion, anybody who has ever used ChatGPT considers herself or himself an expert. To some extent, you are, because you have used one of the first publicly available artificial intelligence tools out there and you know more than those who haven't. So if you have used ChatGPT, or Google Bard, or other services, you already have a leg up to understand at least one aspect of artificial intelligence, known as generative artificial intelligence. Now, if you want to learn more about this, there's a big textbook about this big. I'm not endorsing it. All I'm saying, for those people who are very curious, there are two great academics, Russell and Norvig. They're in their fourth edition of a wonderful book that covers every aspect of—technical aspect of artificial intelligence, called Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach. And if you're really interested in how artificial intelligence can impact higher education, I recommend a report by the U.S. Department of Education that was released earlier this year in Washington, DC from the Office of Education Technology. It's called Artificial Intelligence and Future of Teaching and Learning: Insights and Recommendations. So if you do all these things and you read all these things, you will hopefully transition from being whatever expert you were before—to a pandemic and Ukrainian war expert—to an artificial intelligence expert. So how do I think that all these wonderful things are going to affect artificial intelligence? Well, as human beings, we tend to overestimate the impact of technology in the short run and really underestimate the impact of technology in the long run. And I believe this is also the case with artificial intelligence. We're in a moment where there's a lot of hype about artificial intelligence. It will solve every problem under the sky. But it will also create the most catastrophic future and dystopia that we can imagine. And possibly neither one of these two are true, particularly if we regulate and use these technologies and develop them following some standard guidelines that we have followed in the past, for better or worse. So how is artificial intelligence affecting higher education? Well, number one, there is a great lack of regulation and legislation. So if you know, for example around this, OpenAI released ChatGPT. People started trying it. And all of a sudden there were people like here, where I'm speaking to you from, in Italy. I'm in Rome on vacation right now. And Italian data protection agency said: Listen, we're concerned about the privacy of this tool for citizens of Italy. So the company agreed to establish some rules, some guidelines and guardrails on the tool. And then it reopened to the Italian public, after being closed for a while. The same thing happened with the Canadian data protection authorities. In the United States, well, not much has happened, except that one of the organizations on which board I serve, the Center for Artificial Intelligence and Digital Policy, earlier this year in March of 2023 filed a sixty-four-page complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. Which is basically we're asking the Federal Trade Commission: You do have the authority to investigate how these tools can affect the U.S. consumers. Please do so, because this is your purview, and this is your responsibility. And we're still waiting on the agency to declare what the next steps are going to be. If you look at other bodies of legislation or regulation on artificial intelligence that can help us guide artificial intelligence, well, you can certainly pay attention to the U.S. Congress. And what is the U.S. Congress doing? Yeah, pretty much that, not much, to be honest. They listen to Sam Altman, the founder of ChatGPT, who recently testified before Congress, urging Congress to regulate artificial intelligence. Which is quite clever on his part. So it was on May 17 that he testified that we could be facing catastrophic damage ahead if artificial intelligence technology is not regulated in time. He also sounded the alarm about counterfeit humans, meaning that these machines could replace what we think a person is, at least virtually. And also warned about the end of factual evidence, because with artificial intelligence anything can be fabricated. Not only that, but he pointed out that artificial intelligence could start wars and destroy democracy. Certainly very, very grim predictions. And before this, many of the companies were self-regulating for artificial intelligence. If you look at Google, Microsoft, Facebook now Meta. All of them have their own artificial intelligence self-guiding principles. Most of them were very aspirational. Those could help us in higher education because, at the very least, it can help us create our own policies and guidelines for our community members—faculty, staff, students, researchers, administrators, partners, vendors, alumni—anybody who happens to interact with our institutions of higher learning. Now, what else is happening out there? Well, we have tons, tons of laws that have to do with the technology and regulations. Things like the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, or the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Sarbanes-Oxley. Federal regulations like FISMA, and Cybersecurity Maturity Model Certification, Payment Card Industry, there is the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, there is the Budapest Convention where cybersecurity insurance providers will tells us what to do and what not to do about technology. We have state laws and many privacy laws. But, to be honest, very few artificial intelligence laws. And it's groundbreaking in Europe that the European parliamentarians have agreed to discuss the Artificial Intelligence Act, which could be the first one really to be passed at this level in the world, after some efforts by China and other countries. And, if adopted, could be a landmark change in the adoption of artificial intelligence. In the United States, even though Congress is not doing much, what the White House is trying to position itself in the realm of artificial intelligence. So there's an executive order in February of 2023—that many of us in higher education read because, once again, we're trying to find inspiration for our own rules and regulations—that tells federal agencies that they have to root out bias in the design and use of new technologies, including artificial intelligence, because they have to protect the public from algorithm discrimination. And we all believe this. In higher education, we believe in being fair and transparent and accountable. I would be surprised if any of us is not concerned about making sure that our technology use, our artificial technology use, does not follow these particular principles as proposed by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, and many other bodies of ethics and expertise. Now, the White House also announced new centers—research and development centers with some new national artificial intelligence research institutes. Many of us will collaborate with those in our research projects. A call for public assessments of existing generative artificial intelligence systems, like ChatGPT. And also is trying to enact or is enacting policies to ensure that U.S. government—the U.S. government, the executive branch, is leading by example when mitigating artificial intelligence risks and harnessing artificial intelligence opportunities. Because, in spite of all the concerns about this, it's all about the opportunities that we hope to achieve with artificial intelligence. And when we look at how specifically can we benefit from artificial intelligence in higher education, well, certainly we can start with new and modified academic offerings. I would be surprised if most of us will not have degrees—certainly, we already have degrees—graduate degrees on artificial intelligence, and machine learning, and many others. But I would be surprised if we don't even add some bachelor's degrees in this field, or we don't modify significantly some of our existing academic offerings to incorporate artificial intelligence in various specialties, our courses, or components of the courses that we teach our students. We're looking at amazing research opportunities, things that we'll be able to do with artificial intelligence that we couldn't even think about before, that are going to expand our ability to generate new knowledge to contribute to society, with federal funding, with private funding. We're looking at improved knowledge management, something that librarians are always very concerned about, the preservation and distribution of knowledge. The idea would be that artificial intelligence will help us find better the things that we're looking for, the things that we need in order to conduct our academic work. We're certainly looking at new and modified pedagogical approaches, new ways of learning and teaching, including the promise of adaptive learning, something that really can tell students: Hey, you're not getting this particular concept. Why don't you go back and study it in a different way with a different virtual avatar, using simulations or virtual assistance? In almost every discipline and academic endeavor. We're looking very concerned, because we're concerned about offering, you know, a good value for the money when it comes to education. So we're hoping to achieve extreme efficiencies, better ways to run admissions, better ways to guide students through their academic careers, better way to coach them into professional opportunities. And many of this will be possible thanks to artificial intelligence. And also, let's not forget this, but we still have many underserved students, and they're underserved because they either cannot afford education or maybe they have physical or cognitive disabilities. And artificial intelligence can really help us reach to those students and offer them new opportunities to advance their education and fulfill their academic and professional goals. And I think this is a good introduction. And I'd love to talk about all the things that can go wrong. I'd love to talk about all the things that we should be doing so that things don't go as wrong as predicted. But I think this is a good way to set the stage for the discussion. FASKIANOS: Fantastic. Thank you so much. So we're going to go all of you now for your questions and comments, share best practices. (Gives queuing instructions.) All right. So I'm going first to Gabriel Doncel has a written question, adjunct faculty at the University of Delaware: How do we incentivize students to approach generative AI tools like ChatGPT for text in ways that emphasize critical thinking and analysis? MOLINA: I always like to start with a difficult question, so I very much, Gabriel Doncel, for that particular question. And, as you know, there are several approaches to adopting tools like ChatGPT on campus by students. One of them is to say: No, over my dead body. If you use ChatGPT, you're cheating. Even if you cite ChatGPT, we can consider you to be cheating. And not only that, but some institutions have invested in tools that can detect whether or something was written with ChatGPT or similar rules. There are other faculty members and other academic institutions that are realizing these tools will be available when these students join the workforce. So our job is to help them do the best that they can by using these particular tools, to make sure they avoid some of the mishaps that have already happened. There are a number of lawyers who have used ChatGPT to file legal briefs. And when the judges received those briefs, and read through them, and looked at the citations they realized that some of the citations were completely made up, were not real cases. Hence, the lawyers faced professional disciplinary action because they used the tool without the professional review that is required. So hopefully we're going to educate our students and we're going to set policy and guideline boundaries for them to use these, as well as sometimes the necessary technical controls for those students who may not be that ethically inclined to follow our guidelines and policies. But I think that to hide our heads in the sand and pretend that these tools are not out there for students to use would be—it's a disserve to our institutions, to our students, and the mission that we have of training the next generation of knowledge workers. FASKIANOS: Thank you. I'm going to go next to Meena Bose, who has a raised hand. Meena, if you can unmute yourself and identify yourself. Q: Thank you, Irina. Thank you for this very important talk. And my question is a little—(laughs)—it's formative, but really—I have been thinking about what you were saying about the role of AI in academic life. And I don't—particularly for undergraduates, for admissions, advisement, guidance on curriculum. And I don't want to have my head in the sand about this, as you just said—(laughs)—but it seems to me that any kind of meaningful interaction with students, particularly students who have not had any exposure to college before, depends upon kind of multiple feedback with faculty members, development of mentors, to excel in college and to consider opportunities after. So I'm struggling a little bit to see how AI can be instructive for that part of college life, beyond kind of providing information, I guess. But I guess the web does that already. So welcome your thoughts. Thank you. FASKIANOS: And Meena's at Hofstra University. MOLINA: Thank you. You know, it's a great question. And the idea that everybody is proposing right here is we are not—artificial intelligence companies, at least at first. We'll see in the future because, you know, it depends on how it's regulated. But they're not trying, or so they claim, to replace doctors, or architects, or professors, or mentors, or administrators. They're trying to help those—precisely those people in those professions, and the people they served gain access to more information. And you're right in a sense that that information is already on the web. But we've aways had a problem finding that information regularly on the web. And you may remember that when Google came along, I mean, it swept through every other search engine out there AltaVista, Yahoo, and many others, because, you know, it had a very good search algorithm. And now we're going to the next level. The next level is where you ask ChatGPT in human-natural language. You're not trying to combine the three words that say, OK, is the economics class required? No, no, you're telling ChatGPT, hey, listen, I'm in the master's in business administration at Drexel University and I'm trying to take more economic classes. What recommendations do you have for me? And this is where you can have a preliminary one, and also a caveat there, as most of these search engine—generative AI engines already have, that tell you: We're not here to replace the experts. Make sure you discuss your questions with the experts. We will not give you medical advice. We will not give you educational advice. We're just here, to some extent, for guiding purposes and, even now, for experimental and entertainment purposes. So I think you are absolutely right that we have to be very judicious about how we use these tools to support the students. Now, that said, I had the privilege of working for public universities in the state of Connecticut when I was the CIO. I also had the opportunity early in my career to attend public university in Europe, in Spain, where we were hundreds of students in class. We couldn't get any attention from the faculty. There were no mentors, there were no counselors, or anybody else. Is it better to have nobody to help you or is it better to have at least some technology guidance that can help you find the information that otherwise is spread throughout many different systems that are like ivory towers—emissions on one side, economics on the other, academics advising on the other, and everything else. So thank you for a wonderful question and reflection. FASKIANOS: I'm going to take the next question written from Dr. Russell Thomas, a senior lecturer in the Department of International Relations and Diplomatic Studies at Cavendish University in Uganda: What are the skills and competencies that higher education students and faculty need to develop to think in an AI-driven world? MOLINA: So we could argue here that something very similar has happened already with many information technologies and communication technologies. It is the understanding at first faculty members did not want to use email, or the web, or many other tools because they were too busy with their disciplines. And rightly so. They were brilliant economists, or philosophers, or biologists. They didn't have enough time to learn all these new technologies to interact with the students. But eventually they did learn, because they realized that it was the only way to meet the students where they were and to communicate with them in efficient ways. Now, I have to be honest; when it comes to the use of technology—and we'll unpack the numbers—it was part of my doctoral dissertation, when I expanded the adoption of technology models, that tells you about early adopters, and mainstream adopters, and late adopters, and laggards. But I uncovered a new category for some of the institutions where I worked called the over-my-dead-body adopters. And these were some of the faculty members who say: I will never switch word processors. I will never use this technology. It's only forty years until I retire, probably eighty more until I die. I don't have to do this. And, to be honest, we have a responsibility to understand that those artificial intelligence tools are out there, and to guide the students as to what is the acceptable use of those technologies within the disciplines and the courses that we teach them in. Because they will find those available in a very competitive work market, in a competitive labor market, because they can derive some benefit from them. But also, we don't want to shortchange their educational attainment just because they go behind our backs to copy and paste from ChatGPT, learning nothing. Going back to the question by Gabriel Doncel, not learning to exercise the critical thinking, using citations and material that is unverified, that was borrowed from the internet without any authority, without any attention to the different points of view. I mean, if you've used ChatGPT for a while—and I have personally, even to prepare some basic thank-you speeches, which are all very formal, even to contest a traffic ticket in Washington, DC, when I was speeding but I don't want to pay the ticket anyway. Even for just research purposes, you could realize that most of the writing from ChatGPT has a very, very common style. Which is, oh, on the one hand people say this, on the other hand people say that. Well, the critical thinking will tell you, sure, there are two different opinions, but this is what I think myself, and this is why I think about this. And these are some of the skills, the critical thinking skills, that we must continue to teach the students and not to, you know, put blinds around their eyes to say, oh, continue focusing only on the textbook and the website. No, no. Look at the other tools but use them judiciously. FASKIANOS: Thank you. I'm going to go next to Clemente Abrokwaa. Raised hand, if you can identify yourself, please. Q: Hi. Thanks so much for your talk. It's something that has been—I'm from Penn State University. And this is a very important topic, I think. And some of the earlier speakers have already asked the questions I was going to ask. (Laughs.) But one thing that I would like to say that, as you said, we cannot bury our heads in the sand. No matter what we think, the technology is already here. So we cannot avoid it. My question, though, is what do you think about the artificial intelligence, the use of that in, say, for example, graduate students using it to write dissertations? You did mention about the lawyers that use it to write their briefs, and they were caught. But in dissertations and also in class—for example, you have students—you have about forty students. You give a written assignment. You make—when you start grading, you have grading fatigue. And so at some point you lose interest of actually checking. And so I'm kind of concerned about that how it will affect the students' desire to actually go and research without resorting to the use of AI. MOLINA: Well, Clemente, fellow colleague from the state of Pennsylvania, thank you for that, once again, both a question and a reflection here. Listen, many of us wrote our doctoral dissertations—mine at Georgetown. At one point of time, I was so tired of writing about the same topics, following the wonderful advice, but also the whims of my dissertation committee, that I was this close from outsourcing my thesis to China. I didn't, but I thought about it. And now graduate students are thinking, OK, why am I going through the difficulties of writing this when ChatGPT can do it for me and the deadline is tomorrow? Well, this is what will distinguish the good students and the good professionals from the other ones. And the interesting part is, as you know, when we teach graduate students we're teaching them critical thinking skills, but also teaching them now to express themselves, you know, either orally or in writing. And writing effectively is fundamental in the professions, but also absolutely critical in academic settings. And anybody who's just copying and pasting from ChatGPT to these documents cannot do that level of writing. But you're absolutely right. Let's say that we have an adjunct faculty member who's teaching a hundred students. Will that person go through every single essay to find out whether students were cheating with ChatGPT? Probably not. And this is why there are also enterprising people who are using artificial intelligence to find out and tell you whether a paper was written using artificial intelligence. So it's a little bit like this fighting of different sources and business opportunities for all of them. And we've done this. We've used antiplagiarism tools in the past because we knew that students were copying and pasting using Google Scholar and many other sources. And now oftentimes we run antiplagiarism tools. We didn't write them ourselves. Or we tell the students, you run it yourself and you give it to me. And make sure you are not accidentally not citing things that could end up jeopardizing your ability to get a graduate degree because your work was not up to snuff with the requirements of our stringent academic programs. So I would argue that this antiplagiarism tools that we're using will more often than not, and sooner than expected, incorporate the detection of artificial intelligence writeups. And also the interesting part is to tell the students, well, if you do choose to use any of these tools, what are the rules of engagement? Can you ask it to write a paragraph and then you cite it, and you mention that ChatGPT wrote it? Not to mention, in addition to that, all the issues about artificial intelligence, which the courts are deciding now, regarding the intellectual property of those productions. If a song, a poem, a book is written by an artificial intelligence entity, who owns the intellectual property for those works produced by an artificial intelligence machine? FASKIANOS: Good question. We have a lot of written questions. And I'm sure you don't want to just listen to my voice, so please do raise your hands. But we do have a question from one of your colleagues, Pablo, Pepe Barcega, who's the IT director at Drexel: Considering the potential biases and limitations of AI models, like ChatGPT, do you think relying on such technology in the educational domain can perpetuate existing inequalities and reinforce systemic biases, particularly in terms of access, representation, and fair evaluation of students? And Pepe's question got seven upvotes, we advanced it to the top of the line. MOLINA: All right, well, first I have to wonder whether he used ChatGPT to write the question. But I'm going to leave it that. Thank you. (Laughter.) It's a wonderful question. One of the greatest concerns we have had, those of us who have been working on artificial intelligence digital policy for years—not this year when ChatGPT was released, but for years we've been thinking about this. And even before artificial intelligence, in general with algorithm transparency. And the idea is the following: That two things are happening here. One is that we're programming the algorithms using instructions, instructions created by programmers, with all their biases, and their misunderstandings, and their shortcomings, and their lack of context, and everything else. But with artificial intelligence we're doing something even more concerning than that, which is we have some basic algorithms but then we're feeling a lot of information, a corpus of information, to those algorithms. And the algorithms are fine-tuning the rules based on those. So it's very, very difficult for experts to explain how an artificial intelligence system actually makes decisions, because we know the engine and we know the data that we fed to the engine, but we don't know the real outcome how those decisions are being made through neural networks, through all of the different systems that we have and methods that we have for artificial intelligence. Very, very few people understand how those work. And those are so busy they don't have time to explain how the algorithm works for others, including the regulators. Let's remember some of the failed cases. Amazon tried this early. And they tried this for selecting employees for Amazon. And they fed all the resumes. And guess what? It turned out that most of the recommendations were to hire young white people who had gone to Ivy League schools. Why? Because their first employees were feeding those descriptions, and they had done extremely well at Amazon. Hence, by feeding that information of past successful employees only those were there. And so that puts away the diversity that we need for different academic institutions, large and small, public and private, from different countries, from different genders, from different ages, from different ethnicities. All those things went away because the algorithm was promoting one particular one. Recently I had the opportunity to moderate a panel in Washington, DC, and we had representatives from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. And they told us how they investigated a hiring algorithm from a company that was disproportionately recommending that they hired people whose first name was Brian and had played lacrosse in high school because, once again, a disproportionate number of people in that company had done that. And the algorithm realized, oh, this must be important characteristics to hire people for this company. Let's not forget, for example, with the artificial facial recognition and artificial intelligence by Amazon Rekog, you know, the facial recognition software, that the American Civil Liberties Union, decided, OK, I'm going to submit the pictures of all the congressmen to this particular facial recognition engine. And it turned out that it misidentified many of them, particularly African Americans, as felons who had been convicted. So all these artificial—all these biases could have really, really bad consequences. Imagine that you're using this to decide who you admit to your universities, and the algorithm is wrong. You know, you are making really biased decisions that will affect the livelihood of many people, but also will transform society, possibly for the worse, if we don't address this. So this is why the OECD, the European Union, even the White House, everybody is saying: We want this technology. We want to derive the benefits of this technology, while curtailing the abuses. And it's fundamental we achieve transparency. We are sure that these algorithms are not biased against the people who use them. FASKIANOS: Thank you. So I'm going to go next to Emily Edmonds-Poli, who is a professor at the University of San Diego: We hear a lot about providing clear guidelines for students, but for those of us who have not had a lot of experience using ChatGPT it is difficult to know what clear guidelines look like. Can you recommend some sources we might consult as a starting point, or where we might find some sample language? MOLINA: Hmm. Well, certainly this is what we do in higher education. We compete for the best students and the best faculty members. And we sometimes compete a little bit to be first to win groundbreaking research. But we tend to collaborate with everything else, particularly when it comes to policy, and guidance, and rules. So there are many institutions, like mine, who have already assembled—I'm sure that yours has done the same—assembled committees, because assembling committees and subcommittees is something we do very well in higher education, with faculty members, with administrators, even with the student representation to figure out, OK, what should we do about the use of artificial intelligence on our campus? I mentioned before taking a look at the big aspirational declarations by Meta, and Google, and IBM, and Microsoft could be helpful for these communities to look at this. But also, I'm a very active member of an organization known as EDUCAUSE. And EDUCAUSE is for educators—predominantly higher education educators. Administrators, staff members, faculty members, to think about the adoption of information technology. And EDUCAUSE has done good work on this front and continues to do good work on this front. So once again, EDUCAUSE and some of the institutions have already published their guidelines on how to use artificial intelligence and incorporate that within their academic lives. And now, that said, we also know that even though all higher education institutions are the same, they're all different. We all have different values. We all believe in different uses of technology. We trust more or less the students. Hence, it's very important that whatever inspiration you would take, you work internally on campus—as you have done with many other issues in the past—to make sure it really reflects the values of your institution. FASKIANOS: So, Pablo, would you point to a specific college or university that has developed a code of ethics that addresses the use of AI for their academic community beyond your own, but that is publicly available? MOLINA: Yeah, I'm going to be honest, I don't want to put anybody on the spot. FASKIANOS: OK. MOLINA: Because, once again, there many reasons. But, once again, let me repeat a couple resources. One is of them is from the U.S. Department of Education, from the Office of Educational Technology. And the article is Artificial Intelligence and Future of Teaching and Learning: Insights and Recommendations, published earlier this year. The other source really is educause.edu. And if you look at educause.edu on artificial intelligence, you'll find links to articles, you'll find links to universities. It would be presumptuous of me to evaluate whose policies are better than others, but I would argue that the general principles of nonbiased, transparency, accountability, and also integration of these tools within the academic life of the institution in a morally responsible way—with concepts by privacy by design, security by design, and responsible computing—all of those are good words to have in there. Now, the other problem with policies and guidelines is that, let's be honest, many of those have no teeth in our institutions. You know, we promulgate them. They're very nice. They look beautiful. They are beautifully written. But oftentimes when people don't follow them, there's not a big penalty. And this is why, in addition to having the policies, educating the campus community is important. But it's difficult to do because we need to educate them about so many things. About cybersecurity threats, about sexual harassment, about nondiscriminatory policies, about responsible behavior on campus regarding drugs and alcohol, about crime. So many things that they have to learn about. It's hard to get at another topic for them to spend their time on, instead of researching the core subject matter that they chose to pursue for their lives. FASKIANOS: Thank you. And we will be sending out a link to this video, the transcript, as well as the resources that you have mentioned. So if you didn't get them, we'll include them in the follow-up email. So I'm going to go to Dorian Brown Crosby who has a raised hand. Q: Yes. Thank you so much. I put one question in the chat but I have another question that I would like to go ahead and ask now. So thank you so much for this presentation. You mentioned algorithm biases with individuals. And I appreciate you pointing that out, especially when we talk about face recognition, also in terms of forced migration, which is my area of research. But I also wanted you to speak to, or could you talk about the challenges that some institutions in higher education would have in terms of support for some of the things that you mentioned in terms of potential curricula, or certificates, or other ways that AI would be woven into the new offerings of institutions of higher education. How would that look specifically for institutions that might be challenged to access those resources, such as Historically Black Colleges and Universities? Thank you. MOLINA: Well, very interesting question, and a really fascinating point of view. Because we all tend to look at things from our own perspective and perhaps not consider the perspective of others. Those who have much more money and resources than us, and those who have fewer resources and less funding available. So this is a very interesting line. What is it that we do in higher education when we have these problems? Well, as I mentioned before, we build committees and subcommittees. Usually we also do campus surveys. I don't know why we love doing campus surveys and asking everybody what they think about this. Those are useful tools to discuss. And oftentimes the thing that we do also, that we've done for many other topics, well, we hire people and we create new offices—either academic or administrative offices. With all of those, you know, they have certain limitations to how useful and functional they can be. And they also continue to require resources. Resources that, in the end, are paid for by students with, you know, federal financing. But this is the truth of the matter. So if you start creating offices of artificial intelligence on our campuses, however important the work may be on their guidance and however much extra work can be assigned to them instead of distributed to every faculty and the staff members out there, the truth of the matter is that these are not perfect solutions. So what is it that we do? Oftentimes, we work with partners. And our partners love to take—(inaudible)—vendors. But the truth of the matter is that sometimes they have much more—they have much more expertise on some of these topics. So for example, if you're thinking about incorporating artificial intelligence to some of the academic materials that you use in class, well, I'm going to take a guess that if you already work with McGraw Hill in economics, or accounting, or some of the other books and websites that they put that you recommend to your students or you make mandatory for your students, that you start discussing with them, hey, listen, are you going to use artificial intelligence? How? Are you going to tell me ahead of time? Because, as a faculty member, you may have a choice to decide: I want to work with this publisher and not this particular publisher because of the way they approach this. And let's be honest, we've seen a number of these vendors with major information security problems. McGraw Hill recently left a repository of data misconfigured out there on the internet, and almost anybody could access that. But many others before them, like Chegg and others, were notorious for their information security breaches. Can we imagine that these people are going to adopt artificial intelligence and not do such a good job of securing the information, the privacy, and the nonbiased approaches that we hold dear for students? I think they require a lot of supervision. But in the end, these publishers have the economies of scale for you to recommend those educational materials instead of developing your own for every course, for every class, and for every institution. So perhaps we're going to have to continue to work together, as we've done in higher education, in consortia, which would be local, or regional. It could be based on institutions of the same interest, or on student population, on trying to do this. And, you know, hopefully we'll get grants, grants from the federal government, that can be used in order to develop some of the materials and guidelines that are going to help us precisely embrace this and embracing not only to operate better as institutions and fulfill our mission, but also to make sure that our students are better prepared to join society and compete globally, which is what we have to do. FASKIANOS: So I'm going to combine questions. Dr. Lance Hunter, who is an associate professor at Augusta University. There's been a lot of debate regarding if plagiarism detection software tools like Turnitin can accurately detect AI-generated text. What is your opinion regarding the accuracy of AI text generation detection plagiarism tools? And then Rama Lohani-Chase, at Union County College, wants recommendations on what plagiarism checker devices you would recommend—or, you know, plagiarism detection for AI would you recommend? MOLINA: Sure. So, number one, I'm not going to endorse any particular company because if I do that I would ask them for money, or the other way around. I'm not sure how it works. I could be seen as biased, particularly here. But there are many there and your institutions are using them. Sometimes they are integrated with your learning management system. And, as I mentioned, sometimes we ask the students to use them themselves and then either produce the plagiarism report for us or simply know themselves this. I'm going to be honest; when I teach ethics and technology, I tell the students about the antiplagiarism tools at the universities. But I also tell them, listen, if you're cheating in an ethics and technology class, I failed miserably. So please don't. Take extra time if you have to take it, but—you know, and if you want, use the antiplagiarism tool yourself. But the question stands and is critical, which is right now those tools are trying to improve the recognition of artificial intelligence written text, but they're not as good as they could be. So like every other technology and, what I'm going to call, antitechnology, used to control the damage of the first technology, is an escalation where we start trying to identify this. And I think they will continue to do this, and they will be successful in doing this. There are people who have written ad hoc tools using ChatGPT to identify things written by ChatGPT. I tried them. They're remarkably good for the handful of papers that I tried myself, but I haven't conducted enough research myself to tell you if they're really effective tools for this. So I would argue that for the timing you must assume that those tools, as we assume all the time, will not catch all of the cases, only some of the most obvious ones. FASKIANOS: So a question from John Dedie, who is an assistant professor at the Community College of Baltimore County: To combat AI issues, shouldn't we rethink assignments? Instead of papers, have students do PowerPoints, ask students to offer their opinions and defend them? And then there was an interesting comment from Mark Habeeb at Georgetown University School of Foreign Service. Knowledge has been cheap for many years now because it is so readily available. With AI, we have a tool that can aggregate the knowledge and create written products. So, you know, what needs to be the focus now is critical thinking and assessing values. We need to teach our students how to assess and use that knowledge rather than how to find the knowledge and aggregate that knowledge. So maybe you could react to those two—the question and comment. MOLINA: So let me start with the Georgetown one, not only because he's a colleague of mine. I also teach at Georgetown, and where I obtained my doctoral degree a number of years ago. I completely agree. I completely agree with the issue that we have to teach new skills. And one of the programs in which I teach at Georgetown is our master's of analysis. Which are basically for people who want to work in the intelligence community. And these people have to find the information and they have to draw inferences, and try to figure out whether it is a nation-state that is threatening the United States, or another, or a corporation, or something like that. And they do all of those critical thinking, and intuition, and all the tools that we have developed in the intelligence community for many, many years. And artificial intelligence, if they suspend their judgement and they only use artificial intelligence, they will miss very important information that is critical for national security. And the same is true for something like our flagship school, the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown, one of the best in the world in that particular field, where you want to train the diplomats, and the heads of state, and the great strategical thinkers on policy and politics in the international arena to precisely think not in the mechanical way that a machine can think, but also to connect those dots. And, sure they should be using those tools in order to, you know, get the most favorable position and the starting position, But they should also use their critical thinking always, and their capabilities of analysis in order to produce good outcomes and good conclusions. Regarding redoing the assignments, absolutely true. But that is hard. It is a lot of work. We're very busy faculty members. We have to grade. We have to be on committees. We have to do research. And now they ask us to redo our entire assessment strategy, with new assignments that we need to grade again and account for artificial intelligence. And I don't think that any provost out there is saying, you know what? You can take two semesters off to work on this and retool all your courses. That doesn't happen in the institutions that I know of. If you get time off because you're entitled to it, you want to devote that time to do research because that is really what you sign up for when you pursued an academic career, in many cases. I can tell you one thing, that here in Europe where oftentimes they look at these problems with fewer resources than we do in the United States, a lot of faculty members at the high school level, at the college level, are moving to oral examinations because it's much harder to cheat with ChatGPT with an oral examination. Because they will ask you interactive, adaptive questions—like the ones we suffered when we were defending our doctoral dissertations. And they will realize, the faculty members, whether or not you know the material and you understand the material. Now, imagine oral examinations for a class of one hundred, two hundred, four hundred. Do you do one for the entire semester, with one topic chosen and run them? Or do you do several throughout the semester? Do you end up using a ChatGPT virtual assistance to conduct your oral examinations? I think these are complex questions. But certainly redoing our assignments and redoing the way we teach and the way we evaluate our students is perhaps a necessary consequence of the advent of artificial intelligence. FASKIANOS: So next question from Damian Odunze, who is an assistant professor at Delta State University in Cleveland, Mississippi: Who should safeguard ethical concerns and misuse of AI by criminals? Should the onus fall on the creators and companies like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to ensure security and not pass it on to the end users of the product? And I think you mentioned at the top in your remarks, Pablo, about how the founder of ChatGPT was urging the Congress to put into place some regulation. What is the onus on ChatGPT to protect against some of this as well? MOLINA: Well, I'm going to recycle more of the material from my doctoral dissertation. In this case it was the Molina cycle of innovation and regulation. It goes like this, basically there are—you know, there are engineers and scientists who create new information technologies. And then there are entrepreneurs and businesspeople and executives to figure out, OK, I know how to package this so that people are going to use it, buy it, subscribe to it, or look at it, so that I can sell the advertisement to others. And, you know, this begins and very, very soon the abuses start. And the abuses are that criminals are using these platforms for reasons that were not envisioned before. Even the executives, as we've seen with Google, and Facebook, and others, decide to invade the privacy of the people because they only have to pay a big fine, but they make much more money than the fines or they expect not to be caught. And what happened in this cycle is that eventually there is so much noise in the media, congressional hearings, that eventually regulators step in and they try to pass new laws to do this, or the regulatory agencies try to investigate using the powers given to them. And then all of these new rules have to be tested in courts of law, which could take years by the time it reaches sometimes all the way to the Supreme Court. Some of them are even knocked down on the way to the Supreme Court when they realize this is not constitutional, it's a conflict of laws, and things like that. Now, by the time we regulate these new technologies, not only many years have gone by, but the technologies have changed. The marketing products and services have changed, the abuses have changed, and the criminals have changed. So this is why we're always living in a loosely regulated space when it comes to information technology. And this is an issue of accountability. We're finding this, for example, with information security. If my phone is my hacked, or my computer, my email, is it the fault of Microsoft, and Apple, and Dell, and everybody else? Why am I the one paying the consequences and not any of these companies? Because it's unregulated. So morally speaking, yes. These companies are accountable. Morally speaking also the users are accountable, because we're using these tools because we're incorporating them professionally. Legally speaking, so far, nobody is accountable except the lawyers who submitted briefs that were not correct in a court of law and were disciplined for that. But other than that, right now, it is a very gray space. So in my mind, it requires everybody. It takes a village to do the morally correct thing. It starts with the companies and the inventors. It involves the regulators, who should do their job and make sure that there's no unnecessary harm created by these tools. But it also involves every company executive, every professional, every student, and professor who decides to use these tools. FASKIANOS: OK. I'm going to take—combine a couple questions from Dorothy Marinucci and Venky Venkatachalam about the effect of AI on jobs. Dorothy talks about—she's from Fordham University—about she read something about Germany's best-selling newspaper Bild reportedly adopting artificial intelligence to replace certain editorial roles in an effort to cut costs. Does this mean that the field of journalism communication will change? And Venky's question is: AI—one of the impacts is in the area of automation, leading to elimination of certain types of jobs. Can you talk about both the elimination of jobs and what new types of jobs you think will be created as AI matures into the business world with more value-added applications? MOLINA: Well, what I like about predicting the future, and I've done this before in conferences and papers, is that, you know, when the future comes ten years from now people will either not remember what I said, or, you know, maybe I was lucky and my prediction was correct. In the specific field of journalism, and we've seen it, the journalism and communications field, decimated because the money that they used to make with advertising—and, you know, certainly a bit part of that were in the form of corporate profits. But many other one in the form of hiring good journalists, and investigative journalism, and these people could be six months writing a story when right now they have six hours to write a story, because there are no resources. And all the advertisement money went instead to Facebook, and Google, and many others because they work very well for advertisements. But now the lifeblood of journalism organizations has been really, you know, undermined. And there's good journalism in other places, in newspapers, but sadly this is a great temptation to replace some of the journalists with more artificial intelligence, particularly the most—on the least important pieces. I would argue that editorial pieces are the most important in newspapers, the ones requiring ideology, and critical thinking, and many others. Whereas there are others that tell you about traffic changes that perhaps do not—or weather patterns, without offending any meteorologists, that maybe require a more mechanical approach. I would argue that a lot of professions are going to be transformed because, well, if ChatGPT can write real estate announcements that work very well, well, you may need fewer people doing this. And yet, I think that what we're going to find is the same thing we found when technology arrived. We all thought that the arrival of computers would mean that everybody would be without a job. Guess what? It meant something different. It meant that in order to do our jobs, we had to learn how to use computers. So I would argue that this is going to be the same case. To be a good doctor, to be a good lawyer, to be a good economist, to be a good knowledge worker you're going to have to learn also how to use whatever artificial intelligence tools are available out there, and use them professionally within the moral and the ontological concerns that apply to your particular profession. Those are the kind of jobs that I think are going to be very important. And, of course, all the technical jobs, as I mentioned. There are tons of people who consider themselves artificial intelligence experts. Only a few at the very top understand these systems. But there are many others in the pyramid that help with preparing these systems, with the support, the maintenance, the marketing, preparing the datasets to go into these particular models, working with regulators and legislators and compliance organizations to make sure that the algorithms and the tools are not running afoul of existing regulations. All of those, I think, are going to be interesting jobs that will be part of the arrival of artificial intelligence. FASKIANOS: Great. We have so many questions left and we just couldn't get to them all. I'm just going to ask you just to maybe reflect on how the use of artificial intelligence in higher education will affect U.S. foreign policy and international relations. I know you touched upon it a little bit in reacting to the comment from our Georgetown University colleague, but any additional thoughts you might want to add before we close? MOLINA: Well, let's be honest, one particular one that applies to education and to everything else, there is a race—a worldwide race for artificial intelligence progress. The big companies are fighting—you know, Google, and Meta, many others, are really putting—Amazon—putting resources into that, trying to be first in this particular race. But it's also a national race. For example, it's very clear that there are executive orders from the United States as well as regulations and declarations from China that basically are indicating these two big nations are trying to be first in dominating the use of artificial intelligence. And let's be honest, in order to do well in artificial intelligence you need not only the scientists who are going to create those models and refine them, but you also need the bodies of data that you need to feed these algorithms in order to have good algorithms. So the barriers to entry for other nations and the barriers to entry by all the technology companies are going to be very, very high. It's not going to be easy for any small company to say: Oh, now I'm a huge player in artificial intelligence. Because even if you may have created an interesting new algorithmic procedure, you don't have the datasets that the huge companies have been able to amass and work on for the longest time. Every time you submit a question to ChatGPT, the ChatGPT experts are using their questions to refine the tool. The same way that when we were using voice recognition with Apple or Android or other companies, that we're using those voices and our accents and our mistakes in order to refine their voice recognition technologies. So this is the power. We'll see that the early bird gets the worm of those who are investing, those who are aggressively going for it, and those who are also judiciously regulating this can really do very well in the international arena when it comes to artificial intelligence. And so will their universities, because they will be able to really train those knowledge workers, they'll be able to get the money generated from artificial intelligence, and they will be able to, you know, feedback one with the other. The advances in the technology will result in more need for students, more students graduating will propel the industry. And there will also be—we'll always have a fight for talent where companies and countries will attract those people who really know about these wonderful things. Now, keep in mind that artificial intelligence was the core of this, but there are so many other emerging issues in information technology. And some of them are critical to higher education. So we're still, you know, lots of hype, but we think that virtual reality will have an amazing impact on the way we teach and we conduct research and we train for certain skills. We think that quantum computing has the ability to revolutionize the way we conduct research, allowing us to do competitions that were not even thinkable today. We'll look at things like robotics. And if you ask me about what is going to take many jobs away, I would say that robotics can take a lot of jobs away. Now, we thought that there would be no factory workers left because of robots, but that hasn't happened. But keep adding robots with artificial intelligence to serve you a cappuccino, or your meal, or take care of your laundry, or many other things, or maybe clean your hotel room, and you realize, oh, there are lots of jobs out there that no longer will be there. Think about artificial intelligence for self-driving vehicles, boats, planes, cargo ships, commercial airplanes. Think about the thousands of taxi drivers and truck drivers who may end up being out of jobs because, listen, the machines drive safer, and they don't get tired, and they can be driving twenty-four by seven, and they don't require health benefits, or retirement. They don't get depressed. They never miss. Think about many of the technologies out there that have an impact on what we do. So, but artificial intelligence is a multiplier to technologies, a contributor to many other fields and many other technologies. And this is why we're so—spending so much time and so much energy thinking about these particular issues. FASKIANOS: Well, thank you, Pablo Molina. We really appreciate it. Again, my apologies that we couldn't get to all of the questions and comments in the chat, but we appreciate all of you for your questions and, of course, your insights were really terrific, Dr. P. So we will, again, be sending out the link to this video and transcript, as well as the resources that you mentioned during this discussion. I hope you all enjoy the Fourth of July. And I encourage you to follow @CFR_Academic on Twitter and visit CFR.org, ForeignAffairs.com, and ThinkGlobalHealth.org for research and analysis on global issues. Again, you send us comments, feedback, suggestions to CFRacademic@CFR.org. And, again, thank you all for joining us. We look forward to your continued participation in CFR Academic programming. Have a great day. MOLINA: Adios. (END)

More Than a Numbers Game is rich in business and accounting history. We learn about the Merchants of Venice and why they had a strategic advantage. We also learn about the many flaws and imperfections of financial reporting, where completeness and consistencies are impossible.This conversation is geared toward non-accounting students and professionals where additional topics include the one-page report by the early railroads, what was included in the first modern financial report in 1903, the many names for the bottom line, Sarbanes–Oxley, and a stronger focus on liberal arts in higher education.

SponsorsTri-Merit - https://ohmyfraud.promo/trimeritIt seems that fraud is always in the news, but how much fraud is happening that we don't know about? How could someone even figure that out? Believe it or not, people have tried, and in this episode, Caleb and Greg discuss a recent attempt to quantify how pervasive fraud is in corporate America. HOW TO EARN FREE CPEIn less than 10 minutes, you can earn 1 hour of NASBA-approved accounting CPE after listening to this episode. Download our mobile app, sign up, and look for the Oh My Fraud channel. Register for the course, complete a short quiz, and get your CPE certificate.Download the app:Apple: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/earmark-cpe/id1562599728Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.earmarkcpe.appQuestions? Need help? Email support@earmarkcpe.com.CONNECT WITH THE HOSTSGreg Kyte, CPATwitter: https://twitter.com/gregkyteLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkyte/Caleb NewquistTwitter: https://twitter.com/cnewquistLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/calebnewquist/Email us at ohmyfraud@earmarkcpe.comSources: How pervasive is corporate fraud? [SpringerLink] Just How Common Is Corporate Fraud? [NYT] Sarbanes–Oxley Act [Wikipedia] Market Capitalization [Investopedia]

Get ready for part two of our insightful ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) discussion on the Count Me In podcast. Our expert panel, Douglas, Dan, and Catie, unpack the pressures and fraud risks inherent in ESG reporting, offering invaluable insights gleaned from real-world scenarios. But it's not just about identifying risks; they also provide practical guidance for those embarking on their ESG journey. Learn how to start with what you have, concentrate on materiality, and establish a robust, cross-functional ESG team. Tune in for an essential roadmap to navigate the complexities of ESG reporting in today's business landscape. This is one episode you won't want to miss!Connect with our speakers:Catie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ctserex/Dan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-mosher-8552519/Doug: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglas-hileman-fsa-crma-cpea-p-e-6abbb71/Download the reports mentioned into today's podcast:Achieving Effective Internal Control Over Sustainability ReportingManaging Fraud Risks in an Evolving ESG EnvironmentFull Episode Transcript:Adam:            Welcome back to Count Me In. Today we have part two of Unraveling ESG. We're joined, again, by Catie Selex, Douglas Hileman, and Dan Mosher for the completion of their conversation. Now, if you didn't hear part one, I encourage you to pause right now and listen to that first. In today's episode, we explore the challenges and risks of ESG reporting, including the potential for fraud. Our experts delve into the pressures companies face and discuss real-world examples of how well-intentioned sustainability efforts can sometimes lead to misreporting and potential fraud. But it's not all about the pitfalls, they also offer essential guidance to those new to ESG. Emphasizing the importance of starting with existing resources, focusing on materiality, and setting up the dedicated cross-functional ESG team. Don't miss this invaluable conversation, so let's get started. [00:00:55]       < Music > Dan:                Doug, I mentioned the ACFE's Fraud Triangle earlier, and I'm eager to hear some of your perspectives on applying that Fraud Triangle to ESG.  Doug:              Thank you, Dan, it can be done too. It's a familiar construct, and I was fortunate to be an in-house at a Big Four when Sarbanes-Oxley hit. And at the very beginning of designing internal controls and testing internal controls, we had to consider the possibility of fraud.We had to design controls to prevent fraud, in audits we had to detect fraud.  Being an environmental specialist, and then with the IIA coming out with changing their IPPF, their framework, to require testing for fraud. I've been testing for fraud and considering fraud for 20 years, in the environmental space since 2002. It looks a little different for ESG, but not as different as you might think. There is pressure, pressure can be, "We've got to get this report out." "The customer wants this answer." "We have to say, for example, that our products didn't come from Bangladesh, so what the heck? How will they find out?" There's so much pressure. I see that people are involved in ESG, in this non-financial reporting, as an add-on to their jobs. It might be 20% of their job, and it's the 20% between 120 and 140% of what they're supposed to do. People are under, and companies, are under tremendous pressure to put the right answer out there.  They have the opportunity to do so because the controls are not designed, and have not been implemented with the potential for fraud in mind. So where there are weak controls or no controls, the opportunities are there. I see this comes into play, also, when data and information comes from outside the organization. There's this tricky thing where so much of what we do, in ESG, is not only what the organization controls but what the organization can influence. There are some challenges there, how do you control what you don't control?  So the opportunity is there because the controls can be weak or nonexistent. And the rationalization can be, "Well, everybody does it."  Or "It's not about money, it's about prestige." "It's not really this, we want the award." We've seen, for example, there's a magazine, an organization, that rates colleges, the 10 best colleges in each thing. And we've started to see, in recent years, where the colleges are even fudging the information to get the prestige of being in that award. That may have secondary effects for how many people go to that college or what they're willing to pay for tuition, but that's fraud.  In my book, if you submit data and information that is incorrect, or inaccurate, or misleading, with the intent to deceive at the expense of others. Especially if that turns into actual or potential financial gain, I call that fraud. So that applies on all three sides of the triangle. It's just a matter of thinking about this ESG and non-financial world and how that can happen. Dan:                Excellent, Doug. Yes, maybe, just to add a couple of extra points around those pressures and incentives. Today we are seeing that there is incentive compensation for certain executives that is linked to various ESG measures. If you think about that and the opportunity for management override of certain controls that are out there, that's a great incentive.  If you're going to get paid a bigger bonus because of greater ESG metrics, and your ESG, for example, your emissions information is held in Excel spreadsheet, which in many cases that is the case. I saw a survey, not so long ago, of more than a thousand executives saying that, I think, it was 86% of them had their emissions data just sitting in a spreadsheet. And if you could change that with a few keystrokes, at the executive level, to boost your bonus, someone might do that. Other things I think of are from an incentive or pressure standpoint. Things around ESG-linked bonds or credits where there are a key performance indicators and you're required to maintain those metrics, to maintain certain interest rates or payment on your bond. Those things are out there and they're going to influence some portion of those that are held to them. Catie, maybe, you have some other thoughts around this as well? Catie:              Yes, Dan, so one of the things that we're seeing in ESG, especially because people are so compelled to make great strides on their data and to make progress towards their targets, in a very quick manner, is there's an emerging market of solutions that some are absolutely legitimate and there's good actors, but they're also bad actors. So one real-life example of this happening is the Vatican used a third party to preserve a forest area, as part of its carbon offset effort and to help move towards its emissions reductions targets. So, in this instance, the Vatican thought that it had protected an area of Hungarian Forest as part of that reductions plan, but that actually never happened.So while there were good intentions to reduce the Vatican's emissions footprint, ultimately, that desire left them to susceptible to fraud by this third party. So that's something else to think about is as you're incorporating other entities, that are outside of your organizational boundaries to help you reach these targets, are they genuine good actors?  Have you conducted the due diligence to ensure that they're going to support you in getting to those targets, as opposed to hinder or even mislead you, which could lead to misreporting on your part? And, Dan, I wanted to get back to that pressure element. A lot of the clients that we're working with are in those early stages of ESG reporting, and are just getting their program started. So, Dan, Doug, and I am happy to contribute, as well, but what are some guidance that we can give to listeners? In terms of for those who are at ground zero and need to start reporting, and disclosing, and to ease some of the pressure that they're experiencing from stakeholders and regulators. What are some ways that they can approach this? What are some tools that they can use to mitigate associated risks?  Dan:                I'll go ahead and start. So I refer back to some of those frameworks, that you have mentioned, Catie, as a starting point. In terms of the kinds of disclosures that an organization might make in a certain business sector. I think that they should be taking stock of the various channels in which they might be reporting that information, and looking at the various kinds of scenarios, in which the information might be incomplete or inaccurate. So even just thinking about those processes will get them on a good path forward.  I think that you probably want to think about starting fairly small, with the kinds of disclosures, and build upon those as your maturity from an ESG perspective grows. Doug, what are your thoughts? Doug:              For companies just starting out, or in the early stages, what I would say to them is, first, just recognize this is not a hobby. This is not a nice to do, this is a business imperative and it is not going away. Put the right people on it and devote resources to it, who can really get things moving. Another thing I would say is, one of my phrases, is begin with what you've got because you really can't begin with anything else. A gap assessment is a really good idea. What are the requirements that are expected from the general capital markets?  What are the questions you're getting from impact investors and customers, where you're getting that pull and you're expected to provide something? Well, what is it you have? Companies may have a little more information than they think they have. Because much of this information is already being collected to achieve regulatory compliance obligations, with let's say the EPA, or with OSHA, or the Department of Labor. Is that data and information fit for purpose or can it be modified a little bit, to meet the expectations of the stakeholders who want this kind of reporting and disclosures? Another point I would say, we've touched upon the cross-functional team. This cannot be the responsibility of any one person. This is a team effort because this non-financial information touches every part of your business internally, and it touches many parts of your business externally. With your providers of capital, your banks, your insurance companies, your customers. So all the people who engage in external relations with folks outside the company, it has to include those.  One tip I would say is climate change is the single biggest issue of our time and climate change and climate change reporting, greenhouse gas emissions reporting, is expected of everybody. So climate change has got to be on your agenda. There is some specialized expertise that comes with that.  I would suggest that climate change has even its own team and its own work streams. I think supporting that when the ISSB put out their two exposure drafts. They had one for all sustainability reporting disclosures and one for climate change risk and exposures. So you've got to address climate change. And, finally, I would say I put in a shameless plug for using the COSO Framework, that if the data is going to be complete. If it's going to be accurate, if it's going to be verifiable if you're going to have the right people with access to it and only the right people with access to this data. There's nowhere better to start than that COSO Internal Controls Framework. And even backing up that COSO Enterprise Risk Management Framework to lead into materiality. And to lead into what are the issues where we should be reporting on and focus our efforts.  To use an extreme example, if you're a Chevron you're not going to bet the company on recycling paper. So what are the issues that matter to you as a company? Where you invest your time, your resources, your people, and your initiatives on improving performance.  Catie:              And, Doug, you brought up a great point when it comes to materiality, and I want to make sure that for our listeners, they know that when it comes to ESG and sustainability, materiality is separate and distinct from the concept of materiality under federal state securities law, as well as GAAP. And that's because items that are material to ESG they're not, necessarily, the same as those that are material under securities law or GAAP.  So one of the ways that we help clients and, especially, our year zero clients who are trying to uncover what is material to their company. We always recommend starting with a materiality assessment, and ESG strategy and policy development. This is going to help you set your own guardrails so that you don't overextend or overcommit on ESG. Doug mentioned that climate change is becoming one of those topics, that companies absolutely need to have resources and teams dedicated to. And I'm seeing that with most of my clients, climate, even if it's not on the horizon immediately, it's coming.  And, so, it's something that you will need to consider and continue to refresh what's material to you. So having those assessments, we recommend every two to three years because material topics for ESG are not stagnant. You don't select them, and then that's what you have for the entirety of your company's lifespan. They change because society changes, the political environment changes, and the actual environment changes. So you want to make sure that you're staying on top of and looking ahead to what those risks are.  So that you've got the data, mechanisms, and the internal control processes in place, to be able to have that data, have those baselines that you need. And then as you're planning out your ESG programming, set realistic goals and targets. So that you're not overextending yourself and that you are setting commitments that you know that you can achieve, and you're not falling victim to the fraud triangle in an attempt to achieve those commitments that you set for yourself. Dan:                Doug, I know you talked a bit about the great importance of climate change and emissions reporting. I did want to give our listeners some food for thought around emissions reporting. If you think about how some of that emissions reporting takes place, it's a calculation. So, for example, I've been in touch with a large organization. They calculate some of their emissions, taking their rented square footage of office space and applying the relevant coefficient to it, to come up with an estimate of their emissions.  I asked the question, well, "You have a number of offices across the country. What would happen if you, accidentally, forgot the Dallas office? Would someone catch it?" And the answer was, "Not necessarily." And, so, the care and the completeness, and the extra effort to make sure you have that completeness, it can be challenging, but I think it's completely necessary. Because if something could be forgotten accidentally, it could be forgotten on purpose, and if it's forgotten on purpose that's contributing to fraud.  Catie:              And to add to that point, Dan, some of the frameworks, specific to climate, already have built-in mechanisms to help you guard against that fraud. So, for instance, The Greenhouse Gas Protocols Corporate Standard sets guidelines for when to recalculate your corporate base year emissions. Because companies are setting their targets and their reduction strategies based upon that base year calculation. And, so, there are some particularities in terms of, for instance, if your company goes through an acquisition and your footprint goes by X percent, that is what triggers a base year recalculation for your emissions metrics specifically. And, so, that's a policy example. That's an example of a policy that you would want to have in place for some of these metrics.  So that as your company continues to grow, and circumstances change, and your footprint either shrinks or increases, based upon your operational size. You'll want to have policies in place so that you know when to recalculate your base year, so that you're continuing to report complete and accurate data.  Doug:              I think carbon emissions reporting, encapsulates everything we've discussed on this podcast and everything that's in both of our reports, the COSO Report and ACFE Report. And I think we could probably do a separate podcast on that. I'd encourage our listeners, many of whom are accountants, to read the Greenhouse Gas Protocol and become familiar with it.  There are operational and technical people doing it, but at its heart it really is an accounting protocol. We've discussed how you put together data and information to meet different purposes. I've worked with clients who get called upon to publish a greenhouse gas report, greenhouse gas emissions, using an operational control basis. Using the equity share basis, using the financial… So there's the same data that needs to be sliced and diced three different ways and for different reporting periods. Catie brings up the good point that there are protocols to restate or to correct errors when identified, or to account for forgotten facilities. There are uncertainties documented in it because many of these emissions that are reported involve estimates. What if you get better estimates? Do you apply that to this reporting period or do you retroactively do that and report it? Much of this involves judgment. What is a material change? So maybe you apply materiality in ways that you would apply it elsewhere or differently. All this has to be documented and the possibility of fraud starts to creep in, when there is the pressure to say, "We are on target for getting carbon neutral by 2030, in accordance with senior management's directives." So they can get their compensation bonus, and we can stay in that ESG-preferred trading fund, and we can get our low-interest rate from the bank or decline from that. If you understand, if accountants, and business folks, and operations, and environmental people take a good look at the Greenhouse Gas Protocol and you overlay that with the COSO Internal Control Framework, and you overlay that with that terrific publication on ESG fraud, from the ACFE. A lot of what we're saying will start to make sense and you will understand where you can contribute to more effective and more efficient reporting, and prevention, and detection, of fraud.  Catie:              So we know that, especially, because ESG is still an emerging discipline and there's different interpretations of data, and some of the data points themselves are evolving. So what do you say to those who are concerned about, unintentionally, misreporting data. And realizing two to three years down the road, "Oops, we made a mistake." How should they approach that in the future?  Doug:              Well, that's a great question, Catie, and we see that all the time. And I predict we will see it a lot more as this field matures, and as companies mature their processes and controls, and as more people take a look at it, both, assurance providers, investors, and the like, we're going to see more of that. And it's understandable that everybody will be handwringing and so afraid of making a mistake. And I go back to what we said 20 years ago, at the beginning of Sarbanes-Oxley. I was on many financial audit teams supporting them as ESG specialist for asset retirement obligations, environmental liabilities. And, well, we don't know the right number. We don't know if it's going to happen, and my advice, at the time, as a non-CPA, just an engineer and auditor is to say, "Well, in good faith, read, interpret what is required, develop a process, document the process, and then follow the process and document that you followed the process and the output from that process." That's what goes on the line item in your financial reporting.  If somebody determines that that was not correct or it can be improved. Maybe it's an internal suggestion, maybe it's from an auditor, maybe it's from an enforcement authority. It doesn't really matter how you discover something that needs to be changed. At least you can produce what it was you did and show that you were consistent with the design. The operation was consistent with the design. If you need to change it later, then change it later. Then comes the question, do we change it from this point going forward or do we have to do an adjustment for prior reporting periods? So that can be part of your process and your criteria. Set a threshold, a materiality threshold for that. Develop a process for how teams consider that and who decides yes or no. It's really using processes that you already have, and apply those for non-financial reporting.  Catie:              And just to jump in there from the ESG perspective, Doug, I think, not every year will be one marked by progress towards your targets. There's a million different circumstances that can affect progression on your commitments. And, so, again, going back to being transparent and communicating challenges and setbacks to your stakeholders, goes a long way in the ESG space. In terms of them continuing to have faith that you are reporting these disclosures, as they go along, and highlighting where you are experiencing those challenges and setbacks. Doug:              That's right.  Dan:                One part of the ACFE's Fraud Triangle is rationalization, and I think that this longer time horizon that Catie was just pointing to, actually, causes some rationalization to happen. Because there's a longer time horizon, someone might say to themselves, "Well, I can catch up next year.Let me fudge the number a little bit this year, and show some progress, and I will make it all better next year." And, so, there is something particular to ESG with that longer time horizon for those commitments being made around, "I'm going to be net zero by such and such a date. Well, that's a long time from now, let me just show that I have progression every year and hope that I can catch up in reality." Dan:                I maintain that non-financial reporting has a couple of attributes that are a little different from financial reporting, or at least they occur in greater proportion. Two of those attributes are much more narrative in non-financial disclosures, descriptions of processes, and also some forward-looking statements. Companies are encouraged to announce goals and targets, which sets the stage for reporting in future reporting periods on their progress to the goals and targets.  One of the things that is starting to look a little different, companies will say, "We are committed to meeting our climate goals for 2040." Where they make some grand, forward-looking narrative statements, and talking to some folks who are reviewing that, and even some of the external auditors, they're comparing those forward-looking narrative statements to where the companies are spending their money.  So if you're making statements and disclosures that are these grand, forward-looking projections, and the auditors see you're spending $7, a year, towards meeting that goal. Well, is that statement itself? Is that disclosure? Is that negligent?  Is that sloppy, or is that in order to get into an ESG fund, or to attract Helen, in ways? Is that tiptoeing into fraud?  I think the dust is yet to settle on that, but the topic is coming up. Dan:                I think it's a great point, Doug, and I'm sure that there are a host of attorneys out there who will, gladly, be spending time to figure out when the line has crossed into fraud. Catie:              And I will add to that, we're seeing a lot of companies set 2040 goals. And just for context, that comes out of the Paris Agreement, saying that the global target for net zero needs to be… Hang on, Adam, let me pause and make sure that I don't misstate this. So part of that Paris Agreement was this global recognition that net zero needs to happen by 2040.  And, so, that's why you're seeing that number come up in a lot of different corporate targets, when it comes to their net zero goals. That said, there is still a lot of work that needs to be done, at the company level, in order to achieve that. And there are things that are beyond your control.  So the different breakthrough technologies that are needed in order to accelerate transitioning to a decarbonized economy. There's still a lot of research being done in terms of the electrical grid and the different green technologies that can generate energy, to help reduce that carbon footprint. So I urge caution in terms of setting your goals because it needs to be, again, coming back to the point, it needs to be realistic and something that you think you can achieve. So one thing that we encourage our companies to do is it's great to have a moonshot goal, and if 2040 is your moonshot goal, then that's awesome. But setting those intermediary milestones to hold yourself accountable, to that moonshot goal, is something we really encourage our clients to do.  So that could be as simple as setting your baseline year for Scope 1 and 2 emissions. So that you have a complete understanding of your carbon footprint. And then from there you can understand what are those emission sources that we have? What can we do, that's in our power, to reduce those emissions? Are there simple process changes that can reduce our footprint?  So it's important, again, just go back to what you have already, what you know, and work from there. And there's no shame in having a really great moonshot goal if it's 2040 or if it's not 2040. But I think that setting those intermediary goals is going to be what really helps you to not fall susceptible to the fraud triangle.  Dan:                I think, we've had a really good conversation here and we've covered a lot of ground. Everything from visibility into your supply chain and the challenges raised by that. All of the complexities around data quality for emissions reporting and other sorts of reporting. I really have enjoyed this conversation immensely.  Doug:              As have I, it was a privilege. I hope our listeners enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed having the conversation. Catie:              Yes, thank you to Dan and Doug for this discussion. I really enjoyed chatting with you and, hopefully, the listeners will get some useful information out of this that they can take back to their organizations, and start to implement some of those tools and mechanisms to help them guard against fraud. [00:29:20]       < Outro > Announcer:    This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast. Providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in, for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.

The US Supreme Court is set to clarify the burden-shifting framework for whistleblowers in a case involving a former UBS Securities research strategist. The case hinges on whether the Sarbanes-Oxley Act requires whistleblowers to show that their former employer fired them with retaliatory intent or if it is sufficient to prove that the protected disclosure was a contributing factor to the decision. Requiring proof of retaliatory intent would make it almost impossible for whistleblowers to pursue Sarbanes-Oxley retaliation claims, and the Supreme Court is expected to undercut the legal safeguards for corporate whistleblowers if it upholds the decision. The Tenth, Ninth, Fifth, and Fourth circuits instead have applied the contributing factor test. The decision could have a domino effect on anti-retaliation protections for corporate whistleblowers in other industries. The case could also impact federal whistleblower protection statutes that have virtually identical legal burdens, and there are concerns that the decision could reduce the number of whistleblower cases that otherwise would've survived the summary judgment stage or resulted in a verdict after trial.UBS Whistleblower Case Creates Avenue to Upend Retaliation TestSenators Richard Blumenthal and Ron Johnson are investigating KPMG's relationship with three recently failed banks, requesting a wide range of documents as part of their initial inquiry. The senators have requested "all communications," records related to the firm's audits and advisory work, and a complete list of all advisory work between KPMG and Silicon Valley Bank, Signature Bank, and First Republic Bank. The inquiry comes as part of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. KPMG has faced scrutiny for issuing clean audits of all three banks shortly before they collapsed. The senators have also asked KPMG for "all documentation" detailing the firm's policies and practices for any non-audit services, as well as "a complete list" of the firm's employees, contractors, and subcontractors employed by any of the banks after their affiliation with KPMG. They have requested the firm to send the documents as they become available to expedite the subcommittee's review. KPMG has not yet provided a comment on the investigation.Big Minimum Competence fans will remember this was a subject I covered in a past column and corresponding Column Tuesday segment. I argued on April 4th that the recent collapses of Silicon Valley Bank, Signature Bank, and the near miss at First Republic Bank, all point to the culpability of the Big Four accounting firms that had signed off on the banks' financial statements. I metaphorized the legal concept in torts called res ipsa loquitur, which means "the thing speaks for itself" in Latin, and suggested that something is amiss in the audit opinions provided by KPMG on these banks' fundamentals. The revolving door of personnel between accounting firms and the banks they purport to audit is also part of the problem. Banks with high average deposits and relatively few depositors are especially at risk, as they may be vulnerable to losing their deposit base if there are potential risks in their books. My conclusion was there needs to be liability placed on the accounting firm tasked with acting on behalf of a regulator when that organization fails to identify indicia of questionable financial health. Moreover, consultants who work for accounting firms should not wear auditor hats. It seems there may be some political will to make one or both of those solutions a reality. Senators Open Probe Into KPMG's Relationships With Failed BanksBig Four Auditors and Consultants Need Liability—And a DivorceAnd remember when we reported on Lewis Brisbois having a 100+ attorney walk-out? Well, the founding partner the firm, Robert Lewis, has stepped down from his role as chairman after the departure of at least 110 lawyers to a new firm this week. Lewis helped start the Los Angeles-founded firm in 1979, which has grown to around 1,700 lawyers. Lewis Brisbois will dissolve its executive committee effective immediately, and a newly expanded 13-member management committee will oversee the firm. The firm will hold elections on May 9 to add five new members to the management committee, which will then name a managing partner and other top leaders.Lewis Brisbois chair, executive committee are out after lawyer exodus | ReutersFour members of the Proud Boys far-right militia group, including its former leader Enrique Tarrio, have been convicted of seditious conspiracy, which is kind of like treason's little brother and entails a plot to oppose the government with force, under a Civil War-era law. The conviction carries a sentence of up to 20 years in prison. The jury found they had plotted to attack the US Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, in a failed bid to block Congress from certifying President Joe Biden's election victory. The verdicts after a trial lasting nearly four months in federal court in Washington were another victory for the US Justice Department, which Attorney General Merrick Garland said has secured the convictions of more than 600 people related to the Capitol rampage by supporters of then-President Donald Trump. The rampage occurred on the day when Congress was voting on formally certifying Biden's victory in the November 2020 election, with rioters attacking police with a variety of weapons. Five people including a police officer died during or shortly after the riot. More than 140 police officers were injured.Jury convicts Proud Boys members of seditious conspiracy in US Capitol attack | Reuters Get full access to Minimum Competence - Daily Legal News Podcast at www.minimumcomp.com/subscribe

ob Zukis is a man on a mission to improve the ability of corporate America to succeed in a complex digital world, even when under constant cyber attack. Bob is the CEO and founder of the Digital Directors Network, the global pioneer in helping corporate directors advance their understanding of systemic risk. We consider Bob to be the world's leading advocate for improving cybersecurity governance. His many articles published in major business journals and impactful books on the topic make this case well. Bob has worked with, studied, and been on corporate boards for years and now teaches corporate governance as an Adjunct Professor of Management at the USC Marshall School of Business. He is co-author of the book The Great Reboot. We examine the book and Bob's approach to helping corporate directors mitigate cyber risk in this OODAcast. Topics covered include: How the 1200 strong members of the Digital Directors Network collaborate together to seek to reduce systemic risk. The creation of the Qualified Technical Expert (QTE) program and how the need for QTEs on boards is analogous to the need to have a Qualified Financial Expert (QFE) on boards when Sarbanes-Oxley drove that requirement. The new SEC regulations on cybersecurity that will require corporate boards to designate cybersecurity experts. How the new US Cybersecurity Strategy is helping create positive momentum in corporate America (Bob says "the White House has declared war on systemic risk with this strategy"). Actions directors can take to ensure corporate management is appropriately engaging to mitigate not just cyber attacks against the company, but broader systemic risks. Bob explains that "It's not just enough for board members to ask questions on cyber risk, as the questions are meaningless if corporate directors don't understand the answers." Very well put! Board members should continuously seek to improve their ability to understand. And then on top of that should ask the right questions. What is Bob's view of a powerful question boards should be asking? " What's the value of what we are trying to protect, and how safe is it for what we're spending?" Bob provides information on an event that brings together the Digital Directors Network called Domino (16-17 May 2023 in Chicago). This is a gathering of 200 of DDN's corporate director, CIO and CISO members for a unique executive learning experience. This year's event will feature keynotes from experts like SEC Commissioner Jaime Lizarraga explaining the new cyber rules being rolled out by the SEC. For more see: The Great Reboot The Digital Directors Network Bob Zukis on LinkedIn DDN Domino 16-17 May 2023

Julie Bell Lindsay is CEO of the Center for Audit Quality, a nonprofit public policy organization representing U.S. public company auditors.Previously, Julie served as Managing Director and the Deputy Head of Global Regulatory Affairs at Citigroup, where she worked to formulate and execute regulatory policy strategy. Lindsay also managed Citigroup's $20 billion TARP repayment and $58 billion exchange offers in 2009. Julie previously counseled on Sarbanes-Oxley and other public company disclosure requirements at the SEC and in private practice. She holds degrees from The Ohio State University and Vanderbilt School of Law.On this episode of Outside In, Julie talks with Jon about what the accounting and auditing profession gets right, what it gets wrong, making it relevant for the future and attractive to the next generation. They discuss fraud and the CAQs public mission.

In this week's special episode, we cover some key takeaways coming out of the 2022 midterm elections. Host Heather Horn sat down with Michael O'Brien of PwC's Office of Government, Regulatory Affairs, & Public Policy group to discuss how the midterm election outcomes may impact companies and what we can expect from Congress over the next two years.In this episode you'll hear:1:40 - An overview of the outcome of the midterm elections 7:40 - The impact of a split Congress on President Biden's legislative agenda13:42 - The key points companies should be aware of regarding the outcomes of state elections18:13 - What the results of the midterm elections mean for the SEC and PCAOB's agendas22:12 - Background on the upcoming Congressional leadership elections and their influence on future legislation28:44 - Ways President Biden might accomplish his agenda with a split Congress over the next two years35:28 - What to expect from the “lame duck” Congress over the next month40:33 - Advice for companies as they navigate the current period of uncertaintyWant to learn more about recent federal actions? Check out our podcast episode on the US government's proposal on federal contractor climate disclosures.Michael O'Brien is a Managing Director in the Office of Government, Regulatory Affairs & Public Policy. In his current role, Michael represents the firm and its interests before Congress, the Executive Branch, and Federal regulatory agencies. He has represented the firm on matters related to the implementation of Sarbanes-Oxley and Dodd-Frank, state and federal taxation, and litigation reform.Heather Horn is PwC's National Office thought leader, responsible for developing our communications strategy and conveying firm positions on accounting and financial reporting matters. She is the engaging host of PwC's accounting and reporting weekly podcast and quarterly webcast series. With over 30 years of experience, Heather's accounting and auditing expertise includes financial instruments and rate-regulated accounting.Transcripts available upon request for individuals who may need a disability-related accommodation. Please send requests to us_podcast@pwc.com.

(11/15/22) The FTX fiasco and ensuing bankruptcy is symptomatic of the times; professionals are no better than amateur investors at this point in valuations and performing due diligence. The truth behind the "Santa Clause Rally," and what's really happening; get ready for sloppiness in December. FTX shenanigans & repercussions: How we got the SEC, Sarbanes-Oxley, & other regulations; "Stakeholder Capitalism" and corporate "responsibility" to take care of the world, because you're too stupid to take care of yourself: The experiment of COVID lockdowns: who's compliant? Pepsi's Points for a Harrier Jump-jet on Netflix; the Miami Heat cools on FTX's naming rights deal, and Bang Bros. wants in. Yellowstone, Tulsa King, Mayor of Kingston; Amazon layoffs: "It takes a lot of people to censor stuff." FedEx Freight furloughs: The economy is most certainly slowing down. SEG-1: What Ever Happened to Due Diligence & Valuation? SEG-2: FTX Shenanigans & Repercussions SEG-3: SBF, FTX, & Stakeholder Capitalism" SEG-4: Pepsi Points & Porn Sites' Naming Rights Hosted by RIA Advisors Chief Investment Strategist Lance Roberts, CIO Produced by Brent Clanton, Executive Producer -------- Watch today's show on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu0wDff5Iyw&list=PLVT8LcWPeAugpcGzM8hHyEP11lE87RYPe&index=1&t=2669s -------- Our Latest "Three Minutes on Markets & Money: "Will Inflation Data Pump Market Momentum?" is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=611sSZdQnlk&list=PLVT8LcWPeAujOhIFDH3jRhuLDpscQaq16&index=1&t=1s -------- Our previous show is here: "How to Lose a Billion Dollars in Crypto" youtube.com/watch?v=JtOCMd2ywu4&list=PLVT8LcWPeAugpcGzM8hHyEP11lE87RYPe&index=1&t=2657s -------- Articles mentioned in this podcast: "The Big Short Squeeze Is Coming" https://realinvestmentadvice.com/the-big-short-squeeze-is-coming/ -------- Get more info & commentary: https://realinvestmentadvice.com/newsletter/ -------- SUBSCRIBE to The Real Investment Show here: http://www.youtube.com/c/TheRealInvestmentShow -------- Visit our Site: www.realinvestmentadvice.com Contact Us: 1-855-RIA-PLAN -------- Subscribe to RIA Pro: https://riapro.net/home -------- Connect with us on social: https://twitter.com/RealInvAdvice https://twitter.com/LanceRoberts https://www.facebook.com/RealInvestmentAdvice/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/realinvestmentadvice/ #InvestingAdvice #Cryptocurrency #PPI #Inflation #FTXBinance #StakeholderCapitalism #SamBankmanFried #PepsiPoints #MiamiHeat #Markets #Money #Investing