Podcasts about okay god

I trust God, but sometimes I like to give God suggestions. You know just in case he was 50/50 on what to do, I like to interject by bright ideas and tell him how he could make things work out really good. I occasionally even tell God how he could do “cool things”, as if he was sitting on his throne in heaven stumped over how he could pull off something cool today and he was waiting on me to help him. Do you do that too? I wonder what God thinks of our ideas of taking the path of least resistance. I wonder how God views our tendency to desire what is fastest and easiest. I wonder how God feels about our complete avoidance of hardship, struggle, and suffering. Well, there just so happens to be a story in the bible about this exact thing. Let’s read it together. Matthew 16, Jesus is walking along with his disciples. They’re doing awesome miracles together and making a huge impact every where they go. In fact, they had just finished feeding the crowd of thousands with a small amount of bread and fish. Now they know his power. The disciples know Jesus is the One. They’re all in. Verse 21-23 “From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “Never, Lord!” he said. “This shall never happen to you!” Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” Understand, Peter was just trying to save Jesus from suffering. He was trying to find an easier way. He was trying to fix this. And Jesus said, THIS SUFFERING DOESN’T NEED TO BE FIXED. THIS HARDSHIP DOESN’T NEED TO BE AVOIDED. That’s a hard pill to swallow. I want my suffering and your suffering to be fixed. Like immediately. I don’t want times to be hard for anyone. If there was something I could do to ease my friend's pain after her loss, gosh I would do it. If I could lift the suffering of my friend whose world has fallen apart, I would do it. If I could make your marriage problems go away, I would in a heartbeat. If I could solve your financial problems, boom, it would be fixed in an instant. If I could lift your burdens… If I could clear the way… If I could bring you healing … If I could restore what has been broken… I would be like Oprah. You get a new car. You get a good marriage. You get health. You get a whole family. You get a bonus. You get a baby. You get your answers. You all get EVERYTHING! No suffering. No struggle. No waiting. All your problems are fixed and there’s nothing but sunshine and glitter ahead, my friend. I really would fix it all for you … If I could. And to that, Jesus would say to me, “Satan, get behind me!” Why? Because just like Peter, I’m focusing on the wrong thing. I’m focusing on human concerns and overlooking the fact that God’s concerns are bigger, greater, and far beyond anything I can imagine. God is in the eternal game where current suffering will be redeemed. I tend to play in the right now game where suffering is always avoided. In your effort to avoid the suffering, go around the hardship, and skip the waiting line, have you become a stumbling block? Remember, that’s what Jesus called Peter. He was a stumbling block. His attempt to fix everything was in the way of God’s good plan. Honey, what if your attempt to fix everything is in the way of God’s good plan? What if God doesn’t need us to fix anything, and instead he needs us to partner with him in the bigger picture of what he is doing. What if this isn’t about what you’re going through right now, this is about what this will create for the future. What if God has magnificent plans that are so far above and beyond your scope of imagination, but the only way to get to them is through this stuff that doesn’t make sense? You know, this stuff you want to avoid. This stuff you want to skip. This stuff you’ve been giving God “suggestions” on fixing. Okay God, so this is going to fall apart? This is going to hurt? This isn’t going to work the way I had hoped? Now isn’t the time? I don’t like it, but I trust you. I will not try to fix your plans. I won’t get in the way of your work with my suggestions of an easier way. God has been trying to clear the way in your life, and you know what he’s been trying to move? YOU. You with your ideas of how it is supposed to be. You with your plans and good suggestions. You with your complete avoidance of current suffering that are for eternal purposes. What? You think you are above current suffering used for eternal purposes? You think you should be exempt from that? Dismissed because you’ve been a good person? Well, Sis, Jesus wasn’t dismissed and I’m pretty sure he was maybe even a little bit of a better person than even you. If Jesus wasn’t above suffering, why would we ever believe we are? I don’t want to be that stumbling block. I don’t want to be in the way of God’s plans. If God says I have to go through this, then I trust it’s for a purpose greater than my comfort. If God says this has to fall apart, I trust he will be doing something new on the other side of this and when I get there I’ll be more like the woman he created me to be. So, here we are Lord, trying our best to get out of the way. Here we are, surrendering to your plan that doesn’t make sense to us. Here we are, trusting you give and you take away, and our hands are to remain open. Here we are, counting on your timing to be better than our own. Here we are, trusting if you don't fix it and we can't avoid it, then you'll carry us through it. Follow Pamela on Instagram – https://instagram.com/headmamapamela Or Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/pamela.crim Find out more about BIG Life – http://biglifehq.com

So uh, CSIS is relying on the anti hate network as a primary resource to lead their "investigations"..  Lol. lmao. They don't get it yet but they've already lost. STREAM LINKS: Rumble (https://rumble.com/c/JeremyMacKenzie) YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@JeremyMacKenzieSSC) Odysee (https://odysee.com/@JeremyMacKenzie:9/rc515:0) Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/jeremymackenzie) Kick (https://kick.com/ragingdissident) ᚦᛖᚱᛖ•ᛁᛊ•ᚨ•ᛒᛖᛏᛏᛖᚱ•ᚹᚨᛁ • SUPPORT (https://fymm.ca/) (NEW) • SOCIALS AND WEBSITE (https://kick.com/ragingdissident)

Send us a textSome stories are so wild you'd swear they were made up… until you realize they're straight out of real life, and in this case, the Bible too.In this episode, Daniel and Duffy trade stories that sit right at the intersection of “there's no way” and “only God.” From intense, jaw-dropping moments they've personally walked through to biblical accounts that still feel unbelievable thousands of years later, this conversation is packed with humor, honesty, and a healthy dose of awe.These are crazy moments, but woven through all of it is a clear reminder of the powerful, creative, and often unexpected nature of God.The goal isn't to sensationalize—it's to shine a light on the wonder of God and remind us that He's still active, still moving, and still very much involved in our lives… sometimes in ways that leave us saying, “Okay God, that one was wild.”If you've ever wondered whether God still shows up in big, unmistakable ways—this episode is for you.Support the showCheck out what's happening locally with “1LoveHTX” and ways to get involved. www.1LoveHTX.org

What if a single introduction from a stranger you never saw again could change your entire life? In this episode, Theresa Bassett, CEO of The Diamond Group and sales and marketing expert with over $550M in transactions, shares the remarkable story of how a mystery connector named Isabelle introduced her to Kelly Bassett at a running training group and then vanished forever. That one serendipitous moment transformed not only Theresa's personal life but her entire professional trajectory, leading her from Fortune 500 corporate sales to building a thriving 28-year-old family business that now employs a team of 20 and serves small businesses across the nation. Theresa reveals how she "went in kicking and screaming" to entrepreneurship, initially unable to envision herself as a CEO, but discovered her true calling: equipping and empowering small business owners to triple their revenue, build legacy wealth, and create ripple effects that impact entire families and communities. From tripling a home builder's revenue in 18 months to helping a solo orthodontist open five offices and build generational wealth, Theresa's story is a masterclass in the power of partnership, resilience, and saying "yes" even when you can't see the full picture.   [00:05:29] What Theresa Does: Serving Small Business America CEO of The Diamond Group: A sales and marketing growth revenue agency for small businesses Why Small Business? Small businesses provide 86% of jobs in America Theresa counts it as one of her greatest privileges to employ a team of 20 people Every time a team member buys a car, house, or takes a vacation, it feels like a personal victory [00:07:43] The Backstory: From Corporate to Coaching to CEO Trained as a sales professional working for major home builders Merchandised new home neighborhoods for the biggest builders in the world Coached business owners on sales and marketing one-on-one Believed in the power of personalized consulting to elevate brands [00:08:55] The Life-Changing Introduction Both showed up at a running training group Neither could run "a lick"—couldn't even run to the corner A woman named Isabelle was at the front gate Isabelle: "Oh, you're new. There's this other new guy here too. His name's Kelly. I should have you meet." [00:11:40] The Partnership Begins: Joining The Diamond Group Started an agency in San Francisco, California Left the radio industry as a producer to produce radio ads independently Known as "Crash Bassett" in the radio world (crashed his truck into a brick wall on the way to work) When radio consolidated, he pivoted to more video production [00:13:13] Going "In Kicking and Screaming" A marketing agency had never been on her radar "Okay God, what are you up to? Seriously, whatcha up to?" Admits: "I had some selfish motives" [00:16:34] Kelly's Remarkable Pivot Not easy to welcome a new partner into your business Not easy to move yourself from chief/presidency to welcome a CEO alongside you Kelly allowed Theresa's vision to come up alongside his Eventually, her vision became the vision they were calibrating to [00:17:47] Results That Create Ripple Effects Rebranded a couple times along the journey Name reflects the resiliency and strength they build in strong businesses Goal: Build strong, sustainable sales and marketing systems so businesses don't run owners into the ground [00:18:58] Marketing Is About More Than New Customers The Recruiting Connection: "People think of marketing as new clients, customers, and patients, but marketing is also about new team members. Recruiting is a marketing and sales activity. If you want to attract great talent to your team, you gotta have a magnetic brand." [00:21:10] The Power Team Approach Theresa couldn't do this work alone When a client comes in, they get a "power team": essentially a sales and marketing department down the hall Experts rally around the business, create a strategic plan, and execute It's a co-creative collaborative process [00:22:58] Synergy: 1 + 1 = 3 (or 500!) One plus one equals three The ripple effect of exponential partnering impact Her relationship with Kelly is a prime example: "That was a one plus one equals 500 synergistic relationship" [00:24:21] Impact on Employees: Opening Doors Diamond Group hires and recruits a lot of young professionals Marketing is an industry of youth and talent (especially with AI changing everything) Watching employees soar is "a little bit like watching your kids move up and out of the nest" [00:28:10] Racehorses Run Faster Together Put the blinders on so all they can see is forward But they're getting momentum from running right alongside others "I love running with other racehorses" Iron sharpens iron We're all here to help each other— none of us can do it alone   KEY QUOTES "My mission on the planet is to equip and encourage and embolden leaders and their teams." - Theresa Bassett "Sometimes it's just your door that you open to them is the door that unlocks another door. None of that would've been possible if it weren't for Kelly. Him opening his door to me allowed me to open my door to so many others." - Theresa Bassett  "If you want to attract great talent to your team, you gotta have a magnetic brand." - Theresa Bassett "Racehorses are likely to run at least 10% faster when they're next to other racehorses." - Theresa Bassett CONNECT WITH THERESA BASSETT

Life can weigh heavily on our hearts. Whether it is worries about the future, burdens from the past, or anxiety in the present, God can take it. He never intended for us to carry these loads. Scripture invites us to lay down our burdens at His feet. In 1 Peter 5:7, we are told, “Cast all your anxiety on Him because He cares for you.” God is not distant from our pain; He wants to take it.Jesus gave the same invitation: “Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest” (Matthew 11:28). No emotion is too overwhelming, no fear too great, and no burden too heavy for the Lord. He is our refuge and strength (Psalm 46:1), a present help in trouble. When we bring our struggles to Him in prayer and faith, He offers peace that surpasses understanding (Philippians 4:6–7). Give it to Him, and experience the peace only He can provide.Remember that God can take it: stress, sorrow, fears, anger, etc.. We never have to carry it alone. Trust the One who is strong enough to carry it all. Referenced Verses: Psalms 103:81 John 4:8Romans 5:8Romans 8:35-39Philippians 4:61 Peter 5:7Hebrews 4:15-Social Media Ministries, founded by Spencer Coffman, is committed to sharing the Word of God with the entire world. We use social media to reach more people in more places and are counting on you to help us fulfill our mission. Learn more at https://socialmediaministries.com/about-us-MISSION: To use social media to present the living Word of God to as many people as possible and to help them understand and interpret the scriptures in the Bible.-FOLLOW US:YouTube - Podcast - Instagram - Facebook - Medium - Pinterest - TikTok - LinkedIn - X - Join Our Discord Server-DONATE:https://paypal.com/us/fundraiser/charity/4478888https://socialmediaministries.com/give-Apparel-Resources -Sharing Jesus. Making Disciples. Taking Ground. Building The Kingdom.

Have you ever gone through something tough and thought, “Okay God, I get it... But why did You have to use them?” Today, Pastor JD unpacks the powerful idea that sometimes God hires a “Nebuchadnezzar” in your life, someone God uses to shape you. It’s uncomfortable, yes, but it might just be what helps you grow your faith.

Have you ever gone through something tough and thought, “Okay God, I get it... But why did You have to use them?” Today, Pastor JD unpacks the powerful idea that sometimes God hires a “Nebuchadnezzar” in your life, someone God uses to shape you. It’s uncomfortable, yes, but it might just be what helps you grow your faith.

Are you ever confronted with the pivotal moments in life and find yourself asking, "Okay God, what should I do next?" Chris honors our high school graduates as he points them to their relationship with God being key to those "next steps" moments.

What happens when your entire identity and self-worth are wrapped up in athletic performance, and suddenly that's taken away? Wesley Tucker, an offensive lineman at Baylor University, lived this reality when a devastating injury sidelined him just as he was beginning to rebuild his relationship with God.Growing up with sporadic church attendance, Wes had basic knowledge of Christianity but lacked genuine faith. By high school, football had become his god – dictating his sense of value based on performance. "I had a good game, I loved myself. I had a bad game, I hated myself," he recalls. Though he accepted Christ around age 15 after a powerful youth camp experience, that commitment faded as athletic achievement again took center stage.Arriving at Baylor as a freshman, Wes faced the jarring transition from high school star to bottom of the depth chart. Searching for validation, he made choices that pulled him further from faith. But God wasn't finished with him. Through Baylor's team Bible study, Wes gradually reconnected with his faith. Then came the defining moment – a catastrophic knee injury that ended his season. Lying on the field in excruciating pain, something shifted: "Okay God, it's yours. You want my attention? You have it."What followed was remarkable. Instead of despair, Wes found peace. The injury that stripped away his athletic identity became the catalyst for complete surrender. On December 17, 2024, surrounded by teammates, Wes was baptized – making "an outward profession of an inward transformation." Today, former drinking buddies attend church with him, inspired by his journey.Have you tied your identity to something as fragile as performance or achievement? Listen to Wes's powerful testimony of finding purpose beyond the field and discovering that no one is ever too far gone for transformation.Helpful links:One80, Contact UsBaylor UniversityBaylor Sports MinistryBaylor Sports Ministry DiscipleshipOhio State Football Team AwakeningESPN discusses football players faith being lived outAustin Football Player interrupts press conference to give glory to GodLet us know what you thought of the show!Follow One80 on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.Never miss a One80. Join our email list. Follow us on Instagram.Share One80, here's how!OneWay Ministries

That first Easter was so incredibly unfair. Jesus – the innocent man – was crucified and Barabbas – the man guilty of murder – walked off Scott free. If you were God, would you have done things that way?   Let's Tarry a While It's interesting how when Easter passes us by we kind of quickly forget it and move on. It was a long weekend, it was a great time to have off and have a rest, have some chocolate. It comes, we eat chocolate, we have a long weekend, it goes, that's it, we move on, back to work, back to school, back to the empty house, whatever it is we do day after day and this week on the program and in fact over the coming three weeks we're going to dwell in Easter for a bit longer than just a long weekend. We're going to tarry and stay there a little bit longer. And today's program is the first message in a series that I've called, "The Price He Paid For You" and as well as talking about Easter over the Easter period we're going to do the unthinkable and spend the next few weeks after Easter doing it as well. Can you believe that because it's a big thing this Easter thing? Not as a religious holiday, I don't mean that, I for one am definitely not into religion, it just doesn't work for me. Not talking about religion, I'm talking about this big thing that God was up to at Easter. The thing that Jesus went through, the suffering, the persecution, the beating, the rejection and that death on the cross. You and I are so incredibly special to God which is what makes you and me worth dying for. He's handcrafted us, He's made us, He's set us free in this amazing universe, always loving us but with the freedom He gave us a free will to accept Him or reject Him and when it comes right down to this, according to God, He made us, He loves us, He gave us free will and the point of all of that was for us to know Him and have this fantastic relationship with Him here and now and for all eternity. But it doesn't matter which way we cut it each one of us in our own way we've rejected Him. I know I have, more often than we could ever imagine or count or recall and in doing that we miss the whole point. The whole point of creation, the whole point of life, the plan and the desire of God's heart. When we turned our backs on God and we all have, we miss the whole point of life, that's exactly what the Greek word for "sin" actually means. It means to miss the mark or as we might say today to miss the point. I know when I use the word "sin" people often write in or they call and say, "Come on, this is some kind of old fuddy-duddy concept, get with it Berni, get into today, sin just isn't relevant, it's something that priests or ministers talked about in the 1950's, get with it, it's old fashioned." I know, I know that some people think of sin that way but lets come back to Easter and the central point, the central problem of all creation is that we rejected God. We turned our back on Him, it's hard to come to grips with. People say, 'Well I'm not a bad person, I'm not that bad, I'm okay' but let me ask you, from the moment you were old enough did you put God first? Was God always first in your life? Did you live your life as though you belonged to Him? And the answer for all of us is, "No, we didn't." We've all done things; we've all turned away in our own way, in different ways; we've all turned our backs on God and at that Cross at a time that we now call Easter and we celebrate and we remember, on that cross God calls us home. The consequences, what we should have paid for rejecting Him, were paid for by His Son Jesus; He died to give us a new life. Okay God calls us to a life of sacrifice, God calls us to a life of giving, He gives us a fresh new life, a wholesome life with real joy and because out of His great love He reached out to us through Jesus, He opens the door to a real and dynamic and exciting and beautiful and wondrous relationship with God. At the heart of the message of Easter is the fact that Jesus paid the price of my sin and of your sin, of our rejection of God, our missing the whole point of creation and the fact that Jesus paid the price seems unfair don't you think? Let's have a read, we're going to go to the Bible, if you have one grab it, we're going to open up at John chapter 18 beginning at verse 38 and we're going to read through to chapter 19, verse 16. Here it is: What is truth, Pontius Pilate asked? With this he went out again to the Jews and said, 'I find no basis for a charge against this Jesus but it's your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release the king of the Jews? And they shouted, 'no, not him, give us Barabbas. Now Barabbas had taken part in a rebellion. Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged, the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head, they clothed him in a purple robe and went up to him and again and again and again saying, 'hail the king of the Jews' and they struck him in the face. Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews, 'I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.' And when Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe Pilate said to them, 'here is the man'. As soon as the Chief Priests and their officials saw him they shouted, 'crucify him, crucify him. But Pontius Pilate answered, 'you take him, you crucify him. As for me I find no basis for a charge against him.' But the Jews insisted, 'we have a law and according to that law he must die because he claimed to be the son of God.' And when Pilate heard this he was even more afraid and he went back inside the palace. Where do you come from?' He asked Jesus but Jesus gave him no answer. 'Do you refuse to speak to me?' Pilate said, 'don't you realise I have the power either to free you or to crucify you?' And Jesus answered, 'you would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin. From then on Pilate tried to have Jesus set free but the Jews kept shouting, 'if you let this man go you are no friend of Caesars. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.' When Pilate heard this he brought Jesus out and sat him down on the Judges seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement. It was the day of the preparation of the Passover week, about the sixth hour. Here is your king' Pilate said to the Jews but they shouted, 'take him away, take him away, crucify him.' 'Shall I crucify your king?' Pilate asked. 'We have no king but Caesar' the Chief Priests answered. Finally Pilate handed him over to be crucified. Pretty amazing story we're going to take a look at it in a moment.   An Innocent Man Not much regard for the rules of evidence if indeed there were any rules of evidence way back then. A good friend of mine by the name of Paul is a magistrate. Now, the more I get to know him, the more I realise how gifted Paul is to do that job. I've got to tell you, I'd hate to have to sit in judgment, this one goes free, this one gets locked up. And to make things even more difficult he's a magistrate in the children's court. Now Paul has this really balanced thing happening in his outlook. He weighs this against that in almost everything he does. I was saying to someone else recently that when I look at Paul, what I see is someone that I'm really comfortable with being a magistrate. I'm really glad that this guy is on the bench in the children's court because he's absolutely the right person to be doing it. When you look at the story of the crowd and Pontius Pilate and Barabbas and Jesus and this angry, ugly mob I see some of that in Pilate. When the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate and Jesus had been talking to him about truth, he says, "What is truth?" And he goes out to the mob and he says, "Look, I have looked into this man and I find no case against him, this Jesus." See he wasn't swayed initially in judgment by the religious leaders, who frankly just wanted Jesus dead because Jesus was threatening them. Jesus was going to the people and making sense to them and healing them and caring for them and loving them and standing up for them. That's why the religious leaders wanted Him dead. That's how poisoned that whole rule-based religion scene had become. See Pilate wasn't swayed by the same things that whipped up that mobbed. And all the way through this scene, over and over again, Pontius Pilate finds Jesus "not guilty". In verse 38 he says: ‘Look, I find no basis for a charge against Him'. Again in verse 4 of chapter 19: Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews, ‘Look I'm bring him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him'. Verse 6 of Chapter 19: You take him, you crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him. And then again, down in verse 12: From then on Pontius Pilate tried to have Jesus set free. See he was a man who was fairly objective and he found no guilt in Jesus the Christ. Of course there's a marked difference between my friend Paul and Pontius Pilate in that ultimately Pilate was a weak man and he gave in to the crowd. He never changes his judgment mind you, but based on this tradition he just rolls over because of this angry mob. And ultimately he said, "Look, look at the life of Jesus, this man who healed people and who reached out to them and who cared for them, who taught them stuff about life that made sense, of course he's innocent." Innocent of everything except the fact that his goodness, his genuiness, stood out in stark contrast to the manipulation and the deceit of the religious leaders of the day. He threatened their power base, that's why they wanted him dead. Now the other player in this game is Barabbas. Barabbas is an interesting character. His name literally means "Son" which is what "Bar" means, "of the father" – "abba". "Barabbas" son of the father – Barabbas. We'll come back to that a little later. But he is a criminal. John tells us there in verse 40 that he'd taken part in a rebellion. If you go to Matthew's gospel chapter 27 verse 16, Matthew calls him a notorious criminal, so it was well known that this man was a crook. Mark Chapter 15 verse 7 and Luke Chapter 23 verse 19, they both tell us that Barabbas committed murder as a part of an insurrection. So here we have it. A well-known, notorious criminal, a murderer, Barabbas versus Jesus Christ superstar. This Jesus with rock-star status who healed the lame and the sick and the blind and stood up for the oppressed and the needs of the people against all of those of religious rulers from all that manipulation. He exposed the religious hypocrisy of those leaders. Huge crowds followed him, they listened to him, they saw him heal countless people, they saw miracles. The same crowds just a few days before, on the day we now call Palm Sunday, when Jesus came into Jerusalem riding on a donkey, they threw down palm leaves, they were shouting praises literally calling him "King of the Jews" – their Messiah, their Saviour. Yet now, just a few days later whipped up by the religious leaders, manipulated by them again, here they are, baying for his blood. "Crucify him". What a brutal response. No wonder politicians say that the opinion polls are fickle. There's a great saying: "A week is a long time in politics." And it was certainly true then as it is now. Look at it again. When they're given a choice they say, "We want Barabbas! We want Barabbas!" And of Jesus, "Crucify him!" When Pilate asked them about Jesus they said: "Crucify him". And ultimately Pontius Pilate went against his own impartial judgment. He was weak, he was afraid of the crowd. He had Jesus beaten, he had him handed over to be crucified. Wait for it, instead of Barabbas who got set free. Do you get it. It's a switch, it's a substitution that's going on here. Barabbas the son of the father was the murderer. He should have gone to the cross, but instead he was set free and the innocent Jesus was crucified in his place. And here's what God's saying to us through what happened. Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man. "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." God said that of Jesus. Jesus was also man. He often referred to Himself as the Son of Man. He was human, He was God in the flesh, He was perfect without spot or blemish. He was totally innocent. The Son of God – Jesus; the son of the father, the son of dad – Barabbas. God is a loving Dad. There's a radical concept here introduced by Jesus. The Jews didn't refer to God as Dad but Jesus called Him Abba – Dad. And this man, Barabbas – Bar-abba, son of dad – is the one who gets set free. It's the swap over, it's the substitution. The "Son of God" and the "son of God". Both with the same name. Jesus and Barabbas. The innocent is substituted for the guilty. Jesus went to the cross for Barabbas; Barabbas deserved it but Jesus wore it. Barabbas was the murderer but Jesus was killed. Barabbas was the one who hurt people and yet Jesus suffered in his place. Barabbas – the son of the father – was guilty and he went free. Jesus – the Son of the Father – was innocent and He went to the Cross. And who judged Him? Not Pilate. Pilate wasn't the one that sent Him to the Cross, it was the angry mob and the religious leaders – the very people whom He came to set free, whom He loved, whom He healed, whom He taught. They were the ones that turned against Him. They were the ones who had Jesus crucified. So what does that mean for you and for me here and now?   Who is Barabbas Let me ask you something. Who was Barabbas? There was Pontius Pilate, there was Jesus, there was Barabbas. And then there was the angry mob in this story. To the angry mob, Barabbas was just that criminal and murderer and it was the Passover Festival. The Passover is the celebration of when God was releasing His people out of slavery in Egypt centuries before. He sent ten plagues on Egypt, on Pharaoh. And the final plague was the death of the first-born of all the Egyptians from Pharaoh's son through to a slave's son right through to the first born of all the animals. And yet here was the nation of Israel captive as slaves in Egypt. And God said to them: "Look, get a lamb, kill it, takes it's blood, smear it on the top of the door and the angel of death will pass over your house and you won't suffer that death – that death in the tenth plague." It was only visited on the Egyptians but not on God's people. And the way in which God's angel passed them over was by the seeing the blood of the lamb on the door posts. And so there's this tradition where the Roman Governor at the Passover Festival all these years later would release one criminal to the people. And this year that criminal was going to be Barabbas. Someone who had been part of an insurgency, an uprising; someone who killed multiple people. I mean, the worst sort of all criminals possible is who Barabbas was. Bar-abba – "son of the father", one of God's children. You see, you and I are Barabbas in this story. I said before that attitudes to sin vary enormously in our society and so many people see "sin" as an outdated concept. But the whole point of creation was us to have a relationship with God and to give glory to God but in our free will we rejected Him just as Barabbas rejected God, just as Barabbas went out and sinned. And when we did that we missed the point. And that's what God calls "sin". It's conspicuous, you can't hide it. We're all guilty of that and ‘the wages of sin is death'. See, God is wondrous and perfect and holy and awesome and a loving God and it's hard to imagine love and judgment in one person. Yet my friend Paul, the magistrate, I was talking about him earlier, Paul is a really fair and compassionate man, he's a great husband, he's a wonderful father, but he's also just. I look at him and it gives me some understanding at how those things fit together in God's nature. In His love, instead of letting you and me pay the price, in His love God sends Jesus, His Son, to die in my place. Now you and I might say, "Look, I'm no Barabbas. I haven't killed people. I haven't done all these horrible things." The point is, the moment we turn our back on God, the moment we reject Him, the moment we do one thing wrong – because God is holy, pure, perfect, clean – the moment we sin we deserve death. God's Word tells us "The wages of sin in death", and yet when we put our faith in this Jesus, in this Jesus who died on our behalf, we're forgiven. You too are one of the sons and daughters of Abba – Dad – God. We too are loved by Him and we too can put our faith in Jesus and believe with our hearts and with our heads that on this very first Easter, on that Cross, Jesus paid the price of our sin and when we believe in Him we have complete forgiveness. Finally, Pilate handed Him over to be crucified, so that the soldiers took charge of Jesus. Carrying His own cross He went out to a place of the Skull which in Aramaic is known as Golgotha. Here they crucified Him and with Him two others, one on each side and Jesus in the middle. And Pilate had a notice prepared and fastened to the Cross. It read, ‘Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews'. Many of the Jews read this sign for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek. The Chief Priest of the Jews protested to Pilate, ‘Don't write ‘King of the Jews' but that this man claimed to be the King of the Jews.' And Pilate answered them, ‘What I have written, I've written.' When the soldiers crucified Jesus they took His clothes off, divided amongst them in four shares, one for each of them with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in a single piece from top to bottom. Let's not tear it they said, let's decided by lot who gets it. This happened so that the Scripture might be fulfilled which said, ‘They divided their garments among them and cast lots for my clothing'. So this is what the soldiers did. Near the Cross of Jesus stood His mother, His mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw His mother there and the Disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, ‘Dear woman, here is your son and to the Disciple, here is your mother.' And from that time on this Disciple took her into his home. Later, knowing that all was completed and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, ‘I'm thirsty.' A jar of wine vinegar was there and so they soaked a sponge in it and put the sponge on a stalk of hyssop plant and lifted it to Jesus' lips. When He'd received a drink Jesus said, ‘It is finished'. With that He bowed His head and gave up His Spirit. That's the price, the price that Jesus paid for you and for me and Barabbas. And as much as we here in the 21st Century might have a cultural problem with the notion of sin, it doesn't change anything. It doesn't change God, it doesn't change who God is, it doesn't change why God created us, it doesn't change the reality that you and I have fallen short of the glory of God. You and I have both rejected God and it doesn't change the reality that He loves us so much that He sent His one and only Son. So many people in our society have this nagging sense of guilt, this nagging sense of inadequacy, this deep down sense that they're not good enough. And the reason is that we aren't good enough. And God comes to us to the Cross of Jesus Christ and cries out and says to us: I love you. You are my Barabbas, you are my child. I love you, I sent my Son to pay the price. Look at my Son, look at the Cross, put your faith in Him and you can have eternal life. A new life, a fresh life, a life that begins now, a life with me that goes on forever. When we believe Jesus we have the forgiveness that Jesus purchased. When we believe the door is flung open into a deep relationship with God, when we believe we have eternal life, we do. Anybody, the worst criminal, you, me even if he had believed … Barabbas.

Life doesn't always go as planned, but Psalm 23 reminds us that we can trust God in every season. Check out this message from Noah Felten, as he explores contentment, faith, and learning to say, 'Okay God,' even when it's hard.

“Okay God, if this is it, I'm going to kind of test you. Typically that's not a smart idea you know. I said, ‘okay God, if this is really of you, then you're going to make something happen.' I didn't put out resumes. I didn't do any of that stuff, but I'm going to consistently […]

“My birth stories are my testimony…I have never trusted God more with any situation in my entire life other than with the lives of my children and bringing them into this world.”Shelby's story is one of faith, trust, and surrendering. Shelby joins us today from Indiana sharing her wildly traumatic Cesarean story due to a placental abruption and her peaceful, healing home birth. Shelby was on vacation at a cabin in New York at 34 weeks when she woke up to regular contractions and heavy bleeding. She rushed to the nearest hospital, was put under general anesthesia for her Cesarean, was transferred via a separate ambulance from her baby to a hospital 3 hours away, and had a 23-day NICU stay in the height of COVID 800 miles away from her family and community.She and her husband were certain they would not have any more children. But as they fought for healing through faith-based counseling, their hearts yearned for another baby and a chance at a healing birth experience. She completely surrendered, found holistic prenatal care, and created a birth space for herself where she knew she felt safe. She was brave and vulnerable, and her second birth was everything she hoped it would be. As Meagan says at the end of this episode, “Get educated. Love yourself. Have faith in you and your body and your baby. You are amazing. You are a true Woman of Strength.”How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Women of Strength, we have our friend, Shelby, here with us today sharing her HBAC story. In addition to her HBAC story, she's got some other unique things that I think are going to be important for us to talk about today. One is placental abruption. That is something that is definitely a reason for a Cesarean and one of those absolute needed reasons for a Cesarean. We are going to talk a little bit more about that and then we are going to talk about faith and how faith in whatever faith looks like to you, it's so important to cling onto that. Shelby has some messages about that. Then we really want to talk about physiological birth. We hear it. We see it online. I mean, if you go on Instagram and you go into the birth world, you're going to see it almost 100% guaranteed but what does that really mean? We're going to be diving in with that today. Shelby, you are in– where did it say, Indiana? Shelby: Indiana, yeah. Meagan: I have to look at my notes. Indianapolis, Indiana. She's in Indiana so Women of Strength, if you are coming from her area, definitely listen up as well. Okay, so we have a Review of the week and this is by birthing confident. It says, “Invaluable information. I love this podcast. As a mom planning a VBAC and a VBAC-trained birth doula, the information shared on this podcast is invaluable. I have become so passionate about helping all women know their birth options and avoid unnecessary C-sections. I think this podcast is great for all expectant mothers” and I 100% agree with that. This podcast is for anyone and everyone because like she said we are wanting to help people avoid unnecessary and/or undesired Cesareans. We have a ridiculous Cesarean rate. It is through the roof. I would love to see it start dropping and I don't know if this podcast truly is going to impact the Cesarean rate the way I would love it to, but I do believe that it's a starting point. It's a starting place for you guys to learn your options for birth after Cesarean and to learn how to have a better Cesarean experience if you have one because that's also a really important factor that I think a lot of people forget about. Not only do we share just VBAC stories, but we do share healing, beautiful CBAC stories and repeat Cesareans. Thank you so much, birthingconfident, for your review. As always, please if you haven't yet, leave us a review. You can do so on Apple Podcasts. You can message us. You can rate us on Spotify and all of the places that you listen to your podcast. Meagan: Okay, cute Shelby. Welcome to the show. Shelby: Thank you. I'm so excited. Meagan: I am so excited. So let's dive in. I am actually really excited to talk a little bit more about placental abruption as well and hear about your experience. Shelby: Yeah. I don't think I even knew it was a thing honestly before it happened to me. I think it's something that people don't really talk about and it's probably a good thing because it's really scary but also, it would have been good to maybe know what was going on. I know it wouldn't have changed the outcome, but yeah. I just had no idea that was even something that could happen. With my first pregnancy, it was very run-of-the-mill. Everything was good and I was planning on birthing at a birthing center in Indianapolis so I was still going for that natural, unmedicated birth. I didn't really know anything that went into that as you do with your first and I feel like you do the typical making the baby registry and doing all of these things that don't really actually help you with your birth. Not that I would have gotten the chance to even try anyway. I feel like I just definitely didn't really have much knowledge and I think the problem is that you don't know what you don't know which is why I literally recommend this podcast to all of my friends who are even pregnant with their first baby because I'm like, “Just learn the things. Learn all of the things.” We took a very basic birthing course through the birthing center and it was just virtual, like four sessions and it was not super helpful honestly but we also didn't get to implement it. The pregnancy itself was just very normal. I mean, I have pretty much all of the symptoms which is the worst like really horrible rib pain and nausea and heartburn and all of the things. What was crazy though, this was in 2021 and I actually got COVID while I was pregnant also. Everyone I've talked to thinks that's probably why I had a placental abruption.Meagan: That's interesting to know. Shelby: Yeah. I had it in about my 5th month of pregnancy in September and I was due in January. It was horrible for a week but then I recovered and I was back to working out. I was totally fine. I didn't have any blood pressure issues after that. Everything reallly seemed okay. We decided at 33 weeks that we were going to go to New York which is really far away from Indiana on vacation for Thanksgiving to gather with all of my husband's family. My midwives cleared it. Like I said, I was working out. I was healthy. I was fine. The trip was going super well. I was working out while we were there. I was doing barre obviously so I was doing safe things. Fitness is a really big part of my life but also, it's not something I added in during pregnancy. It was just normal for me. Meagan: I used to take barre too. I took barre and was teaching barre with my second TOLAC. It's a very low impact but very, very good for strength and cardio. Shelby: Yeah, and my husband and my father-in-law were doing them with me so we have some really awesome videos of me at 34 weeks pregnant working out with my husband and my father-in-law doing barre. But yeah. Everything was going well and anything that was slightly risky which really even wasn't, I wasn't doing. They did this office chair floor hockey where they were pushing each other around in office chairs and playing hockey in a building and I didn't do it. I sat on the sidelines and observed. I was being really what I feel like was cautious. Meagan: Responsible. Shelby: Right, yeah. We even took family pictures on Saturday and everything, I have pictures of us smiling and laughing and then literally the next day we had a baby which was crazy. I start having Braxton Hicks contractions at 20 weeks. For both of my pregnancies, I just feel like I start having them really early so they are not shocking for me. But that Saturday, I remember several times looking at my husband and being like, “These feel a little stronger than I remember them being,” but with your first, you don't know anything. I kept mentioning that to him but they weren't super regular and there were no other signs of anything, just Braxton Hicks contractions. Then that night when we went to bed, I couldn't really sleep. I was laying there by myself the only one awake. We were all staying in this big cabin together which was great. My husband and I were in our room. At 4:00 AM– this is so funny to me now that I know what labor is actually like. At 4:00 AM, I started timing contractions and they were less than 5 minutes apart when I started timing them. I'm like, What was wrong with me?So after an hour of them being like that, I woke my husband up and I was like, “I think you should go get your mom,” because she is actually a midwife which was good. Meagan: Oh, convenient. Shelby: She was in the room next to us. Yeah. I was like, “I think you should go get your mom because this is not right.” They were not just less than 5 minutes apart. They were pretty uncomfortable. She came over and checked things out. I know now that she definitely knew that something was going on but she was really good at keeping her cool. She was like, “Why don't you go shower and try to relax?” When I went to go to the bathroom and shower, I started bleeding. Like I said, I knew nothing about labor, so I was like, “Oh, well maybe I am in labor” which was really scary because I was only 34 weeks but it was a lot of bleeding. I was like, “Well, I don't know what's normal,” but I know that obviously, my mother-in-law knew what was going on. She was like, “It's okay. We'll have Chad (my father-in-law) just go start the car and we'll go in and get everything checked out.” So we were in the middle of the Adirondacks which is literally nowhere. We had a 25-minute drive to the nearest hospital and this hospital, I mean we were probably the only people there. It was 5:30 in the morning maybe. They didn't have an OB there. They didn't have a surgical team there. They were all at home so we come in and the front desk lady is like, “What's your occupation?” She's typing like a sloth. I was like, “Girlfriend, I am bleeding and I am in full-on labor. Can we just go inside?” So that was crazy. She's asking me to sign stuff and I'm telling my husband, “You have to sign.” At this point, contractions were pretty back-to-back and they were super strong. I could tell I was bleeding with every one. I could feel it. They got me back into the ER and the poor nurse. I know that this was probably so scary for her, especially with an OB not even there but she was asking me, “Have you felt her move recently? I can't find a heartbeat.” I was like, “I don't know. I'm in labor. I don't know if she's moving or not.” Every time I'd have a contraction, she'd just be like, “Oh wow, that's a lot of blood.” I'm like, “Thank you. I know.” Meagan: You're like, “I can feel it.” Shelby: Yeah, it was wild. By the time the OB got there, she checked. She said I was fully dilated and effaced. Meagan: Holy cow. Shelby: This was maybe 2 hours. It was not long. Now that I've been through a full labor, I'm like, that is crazy. My body had to have just been in panic mode like, We have to get this baby out right now.She checked and something that was kind of cool was I knew that my baby was head down. She had been from 20 weeks. She was perfectly always in the same spot because I could always feel her kicks really high and one of the times the OB checked, she goes, “Oh, and she's breech so we're just going to have to go.” I was like, “She's not breech. Check again. She's not breech.” She checked again and she was like, “Oh, you're right.” I was like, “Yeah.” So the nurse brings in all of the scrubs and stuff for my husband to put on and as he's getting dressed and everything, he's fully ready to go. He's all excited because he wasn't really super scared. Meagan: He didn't understand what was going on. Shelby: Yeah, but also, he's like, “I'm going to meet my baby today. This is so cool.” And the literal most gut-wrenching thing of my life was when the OB was like, “No, we don't have time. It's going to be under general. You can't come.” She wheeled me out of the room and I looked back and saw him standing there fully dressed just like yeah. It was awful. In that moment, I wasn't even worried about myself and I wasn't worried about the baby. I was just like, He's going to be traumatized from this. This is horrible. They took me back there and I'm in labor holding onto the top of the bed. I was only in there probably for a minute, but it is scary. The whole room is white and there is somebody over here counting instruments. They stick a mask on your face and you can barely breathe and then the next thing you know you wake up in recovery. I woke up as the only person in this room. There were maybe two guys sitting at the desk but that was it. Nobody else was there. They didn't say anything to me. Nobody told me if she was okay. I knew nothing. Yeah. I was just laying here. Eventually, my husband came in and he showed me pictures of her. He was like, “She's okay. She's on oxygen but she's doing all right.” But yeah. It was totally crazy. Then they moved me to– I don't even know. It probably wasn't actually a postpartum room. I don't even know if they have those at this hospital. I feel like they probably try to send everybody everywhere else. Then basically, they told me, “Hey, you have 10 minutes if you want to go see her and try to hold her before the ambulances get here to transfer you guys,” because there wasn't a NICU there and they probably weren't even– they couldn't have cared for her. I think as soon as we got there, they must have called Albany Medical Center because it's 3 hours away. She was born at 7:30 in the morning. I started timing contractions at 4:00 AM. We didn't leave until after 5:00. The whole thing was so fast. I'm getting ready to get out of bed and get in a wheelchair to go see her and they didn't warn me how much pain I would be in and they didn't really help me get out of bed either. As I went to stand up, I leaned back a little and after you've had a C-section, I almost passed out. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Shelby: Yeah, so I get in this wheelchair and I get in the room where she is. She's got the oxygen mask on and she's got all of these tubes and all of the things and you could tell in the pictures I was barely with it. What I remember bothering me the most is I had obviously been intubated so I felt like there was stuff in my throat because it was so swollen. My mouth was all dry and I got to hold her for a couple of minutes but it didn't even feel real. Then the NICU team got there. She was on one ambulance and I was on a different one and my husband was in a car so we were all separated for 3 hours to Albany. Halfway there, my ambulance– so hers left first, and halfway there, we passed hers pulled over on the side of the road. I started panicking. There was no communication between the two ambulances. Meagan: Oh my heavens. I'm dying right now. Shelby: Yeah. The EMT, bless her heart, was amazing. She was like, “It could be anything. It could be one of the monitors isn't hooked up right and they're just stopping to do that or they need to change out an oxygen tank and they can't do that while driving.” She helped me calm down a little bit. She probably shouldn't have said this, but we got closer to Albany and she said, “We don't need to panic.” I don't remember if she actually said this but she said, “Unless they pass us again going fast.” I kid you not but we were 5 minutes out from the hospital and her ambulance went by us with lights and sirens on. I had maybe seen her for 10 minutes before this and she couldn't contact the other ambulance. So just traumatizing, all of it. Thankfully, when we pulled into the hospital, the first thing that the guy on the baby's ambulance did was come over and say, “Everything is okay.” It was just something. They had a lead or something come off so they needed to stop and take care of it so it wasn't a big deal but it made it feel like a big deal. We are in New York still for all of this. We get in there and I have to get settled in the postpartum section and she has to get settled in the NICU and then finally, hours later, I was still bleeding a lot so they were trying to take care of that. They were doing the fundal rubs and I remember texting my mom and I was like, “If they do it again, I'm going to punch someone in the face,” because it was so awful. They were saying, “It's because the EMT didn't do them on the ride over that you are bleeding so much,” so they kept coming over and doing them. It was so awful. So then we had a 23-day NICU stay in New York, just my husband and I because no one else could even visit us because it was 2021 in New York which was pretty bad for COVID. Once I was discharged after 4 days, technically, the only visitors allowed were my husband and I with our NICU bracelets to see her. Even if they had someone come, they couldn't even come into the hospital. We didn't really want to leave the hospital because we wanted to be there with her. We were Ubering to Target. We didn't have a car because we flew there. We are Ubering to Target and thank goodness they had a Ronald McDonald house there so we were staying there and they supplied a lot of dinners and housing which was the biggest blessing in the world. I literally don't know what we would have done otherwise. Getting discharged without your baby is super horrible and she was only 4 pounds, 10 ounces so she was really little and nursing just never took off for us. I didn't get to try for a while even because she was being tube-fed and she could barely stay awake because she was so tiny. Every nurse that you'd have would tell you their tips and tricks which is great but not helpful when every 3 hours you are being told something different. We tried so hard and eventually got to the point where it was like, “Let's just get home. We are 800 miles from home and if it takes a bottle, that's fine. We just need to get home.” Yeah. After 23 days, my amazing mom drove to New York because we didn't even have a car seat. It was all at home. She picked us up and drove us back home. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Shelby: Yeah, so then you are coming home with this little 5-pound baby and you are like, “How are we even allowed to do this? She doesn't even barely fit in the car seat.” It was so crazy. After that, we were really unsure if we'd have more kids. Especially right after, we were like, “I don't know if we can do that again.” My husband and I always wanted lots of kids and a big family. That has always been something that we wanted so after that first experience– and you do a quick Google search of placental abruption and they say, “Once you've had one, it's 15% more likely that you'll have another one.”You're like, I can't go through that again. That was horrible. I knew that if we got pregnant again, I was like, I'm going to feel like a ticking time bomb. All of these also quick Google searches tell you that it can happen as early as 20 weeks. Thank goodness we made it to 34 but I'm like, If that happens at 20, baby is probably not going to make it. Meagan: That's a scary thought. That's a really scary thought. They really have advanced the medical world so much to a point where even when babies are born really, really preemie, there are higher chances than there used to be, but the thought of that in general is just too much to think about. Shelby: Oh yeah, and my mom who drove to New York to get us– which is probably part of the reason they discharged us. She's a NICU nurse so she actually knew how to feed this litle 5-pound baby who was still causing us feeding issues and all of the things, but I've obviously heard from her too the stories of the really early babies. I mean, even 29 weeks and I was like, It's just too much. But we also knew that we couldn't stay in that place because we both were not in a good place with it. My husband was obviously so traumatized for different reasons and I was too. It was just a lot. We started seeking out some faith-based counseling basically like spiritual reconciliationing kind of to work through it all because I knew even if we weren't going to have more kids, I could not just live with that raw the way it was. Meagan: Both of you needed to process that. Shelby: Yeah. We were just praying for the release of that and we even prayed over our poor baby because I was like, She's probably holding trauma from that too. The losses that I was experiencing were also losses for her. She missed out on the golden hour and a peaceful entry into this world. It would drive me crazy thinking that her first moments in this world were with people she didn't know and it was bright in the room and being hooked up to machines. I was like, That was probably so scary for her too. We could tell for a long time, probably her first 7 months that she was so sensory. I mean, just screamed and hated the car seat, hated transitions, hated bedtime. I mean, it was basically non-stop screaming for 7 months. I was like, You were supposed to be in the womb for 6 more weeks and instead, you were in the NICU with lights and sounds and all of the things. We just started praying really hard over all of it and speaking to some really trusted friends who worked through trauma with people. I started listening to The VBAC Link. This is probably when it started obsessively. I was doing Amazon deliveries just for fun on the side. I could take the baby with me so I'd put her in her car seat. This was eventually when she stopped screaming in the car seat so it took a while. I would put my AirPods in and while I did all of these deliveries, I would just listen to back to back to back episodes forever and for months. I think honestly that was probably what started getting me thinking even about more kids. I started learning about VBACs and how really the odds of having a VBAC are not that horrible and that it's really not any riskier than a second C-section and I was like, I really don't want another C-section because that was– I mean, I couldn't even roll over in bed by myself. My husband told me, “You don't usually need me, but that was the one time you actually needed me.” He was like, “Honestly, that was really hard to see you in that much pain and struggling that much.” I was like, “Yeah. I couldn't even pee by myself.” Meagan: Oh, I remember my husband literally helping with my second. He had to hold me up in the shower. I was like, “I just can't stand the whole time in the shower. Can you just hold me up and shower me?” I remember feeling so vulnerable and I was frustrated because I'm like, This isn't my personality. I'm very independent. Why is this happening? Yes. Shelby: Independent and strong. Yes. But also in my fashion, I was walking to the NICU by myself very slowly by day two. I'm like, What was wrong with me? But also, we didn't have a choice. I was about to be discharged. We had to figure something out. Thankfully, I didn't need to stay for 4 days, but because I had nowhere else to go, they were like, “You can stay all 4 days if you want.” I was like, “Okay, great.” But yeah, so I just started learning everything and consuming as much information as I could about physiological birth and about VBACs and there really isn't a ton of information about placental abruption. There are risk factors which I had none other than COVID which no one talks about yet because it had just started, but I didn't have high blood pressure. I obviously didn't do drugs. Meagan: You didn't have multiples. It was a singleton. Yeah. Shelby: It never happened before. My placenta was in a good location. Meagan: Your membranes hadn't ruptured. Shelby: Yeah, my water never ruptured with her so it was crazy. But around when she was probably 9 or 10 months, I couldn't even believe it, but I told my husband, “I'm not totally opposed to having another baby.”He was like, “For real?” We talked about it and we prayed about it a lot and I told God over and over again, “If I get pregnant again, this is going to be the biggest test of my trust in You ever because I know that if I try to worry about it, I'm going to go crazy. If I try to control the outcome which I can't, I'm going to go crazy.” So it basically was like, “If it happens, I'm just going to have to trust you with it fully. No holding back.” Actually, before we were even pregnant, started shopping around for providers. Meagan: That is key. That is so important. Shelby: Yeah. We do have one hospital locally that has midwives and birthing pools. I was like, “Okay, that sounds like a pretty good option for a VBAC.” We went to talk to them– well, I went by myself. I had my list of questions ready. I walked in ready to not take any crap because I also knew a lot about what they were probably going to say and they said, “Yeah.” First of all, they wouldn't call it a VBAC of course because nobody wants to do that. Meagan: TOLAC.Shelby: That was the first thing. I was like, “No. I'm going to do this.” Yeah, so they were like, “We'll allow you to try.” I was like, “Okay.” They were boasting about their VBAC rates and it was 60%. It was not very high and I was like, “Umm, okay. That's not that awesome, but all right.” They started listing off the things you have to do because I had all of these questions ready because I knew. So you have to have an IV hooked up. I was like, That's annoying. I was like, “Can you at least have the hep lock?” They said, “Yeah, that would be fine.” Then they said, “But you have to have continuous monitoring.” I was like, “Okay. I really, really don't want continuous monitoring,” and they try to make it sound better like, “Well, it's waterproof and it's mobile so you can still move around with it,” but I also knew about the statistics of continuous monitoring and how a lot of times they indicate things that aren't actually an issue and then especially if you are a VBAC patient, they're like, “Well, time for another C-section because baby's heart rate is dropping.” Baby's heart rate is supposed to fluctuate as they are descending. Meagan: Just like ours. Shelby: There was that and then they also said, “You can labor in the water, but VBACs aren't allowed to push in the water.” I was like, “Doesn't that defeat the purpose?” Especially if it's a VBAC patient, we should be doing everything we can to ease the labor. Why would you make them get out right when they are feeling like they need to push? They were like, “Oh, well it makes the OBs uncomfortable.” I was like, “Well, the OBs aren't delivering this baby so I don't really care what makes the OBs uncomfortable.”So they made me schedule out all of my prenatal appointments and I went to one of them but I told my husband, “I just don't want to have to fight for it. I know I can. I know that I can go in there and say ‘No thank you' and be confident in myself, but I don't really want to.” So I had never ever even considered a home birth. I don't even remember how, but we somehow heard about the only home birth midwife in our area and I scheduled an appointment with her. I didn't even get established with her until I was 19 weeks. I pushed out the OB care for a really long time when we found out we were pregnant because I knew we didn't really love them. So I just didn't go for a long time. I felt like everything was good. I felt like I was pretty in tune with everything. But yeah, I skipped a little bit but when we got pregnant with our second, it was a lot more immediate where I started praying about it all like, Okay God. This is for You because You are the only one who knows how long this baby is going to gestate and you're the only One who knows if it's going to end how we hope it does. I started praying. This is something. I started praying really specific prayers. I believe that God cares even about the little things which really aren't little things in this, but I prayed that my placenta would be in a good spot and I prayed that my placenta would be strong and that it would make it all the way to term and I prayed that this baby would make it all the way to term. Literally every little concern I had, I pretty much sat in the shower every day and just spoke it aloud. I was like, God, I know that You are a God of healing and restoration and I know that You can do that for me. I believed that through this birth, He was going to heal the trauma from our first because I was like, that feels like this is how it has to go at this point. We went and we met this midwife. She didn't doubt for a second. She didn't say anything that was like, “I'll let you try.” She was like, “You sound like a perfect candidate for a VBAC.” I told her that I had COVID and she was like, “Well, that's probably why your placenta ruptured.” She told me that the placentas she had seen throughout COVID and recently, she was like, “They are not healthy and they are not sustaining a lot of them until the end of pregnancy or if they are, they don't look good by the time they get there.” She wasn't surprised. But yeah, she said, “You sound like a perfect candidate. I think you can do this.” At every appointment with her, we'd sit there for an hour and we'd talk and she totally respected all of my wishes. She'd ask me if I wanted to do something. I'd ask her for information and then she'd let me decide either way which was cool too. With our second pregnancy, we didn't use a Doppler until I was in labor. I could feel her moving first of all so I knew that she was well but we actually started using a fetoscope which was really cool. You can't start using it until after 20 weeks so we had to wait for a really long time to hear her heartbeat but our toddler would watch us do it too. It was really cute because she would walk around with this fetoscope around her neck and she would go put it on daddy's belly and say, “I'm listening to Daddy's baby,” or she'd put it on her belly and it was really sweet. Yeah, we took a full 180 with this pregnancy. I had learned so much at this point that I was so confident in my body and in my instincts and all of it. We didn't find out the gender which with our first one, we found out at 8 weeks with the blood test. We didn't find out gender. I didn't do much prenatal care. We didn't do genetic screening anyway with the first one either because that didn't really matter to us. But yeah, I didn't even do an ultrasound until we were 32 weeks or something. We waited a long time because I had learned a lot about ultrasounds and how we actually don't know as much about them as we might think we know. Meagan: Might think we know. Yeah. Shelby: I read about how sometimes the techs are like, “Oh, they're moving away from it,” because they can feel it and I'm like, “We're not going to do that.” We waited and just had the technician who worked in our midwife's office which was perfect because we could tell her we wanted a very minimal one just to check basically the heart and vital organs and the brain to make sure everything was okay. She would pause the screen and take the measurement she needed and take the Doppler off and everything so it was very minimal. I was like, “I don't really care if they have 10 fingers and toes. We'll figure that out later. Just check the important stuff. Don't tell us the gender.” We did that and she basically was like, “Everything from as far as I can tell looks good.” That was pretty much all we did. My lifestyle was still very active and I was eating as best as I could. I didn't really feel like I had anything that was anything of concern which was perfect. I remember at my 30-week appointment, my midwife looked at me. We hadn't really talked about specific expectations I think for the birth because I didn't really know what I needed or what I wanted but she looked at me at my 30-week appointment without prompting and said, “I think what you really need from me in this birth is for me to just be there and for you to just do your thing.”Meagan: I love that. Shelby: I was like, “That's actually perfect. That's exactly what I want,” because at that point, I had listened to hundreds of birth stories and watched hundreds of birth videos and shown them all to my husband. Everything I was learning, obviously I was soaking it in but if there was anything I felt was pertinent to me, I was showing to him too. He really benefited from that because we went into birth also with him not being afraid. He would watch birth videos with me and he'd be like, “Wow, that's amazing.” That's one of my things. Knowledge is power and educate your husbands too or whoever is going to be with you at your birth. Physiological birth especially, they should be comfortable with it. They should know what it looks like and how it progresses and how to best support you in that. That was huge for us. I made him watch a lot of birth videos and he wasn't even weirded with it by the time it came around. But yeah. She said that and I was like, “Yeah, you know, that sounds great.” We made it all the way to 40 weeks and I just felt completely at peace the whole time. I wasn't worried and I was like, “She's going to come when she's going to come.” Another thing they had told me at the hospital was, “We only let VBACs go to 41 weeks and once you go past 41 weeks, you have to have a C-section.” I was like, “I'm not going to do that. I don't even know what my typical gestation is because I haven't made it term.”Meagan: I was going to say, you didn't even make it to 40 weeks. Shelby: Yeah, so my midwife was like, “Well, if you get to 42 weeks, we'll do an ultrasound and make sure everything is okay,” but she wasn't putting a timeline on it which was so great. I did a lot of courses. I stay at home with my daughters so I just listened to a lot of courses. I did the Christian HypnoBirthing one, our midwives did a course. It was really cool. They got us all together at one of their houses and went through a course with us and our spouses with all the moms who were about to have babies. I also did the Free Birth Society course which I was kind of so/so on but I was like, “If I want to know how to home birth, I just want to know about everything. I want to know about the complications that could happen and what you should do in those situations,” so even though I wasn't planning to free birth, I still wanted to learn all of the things. That was one of the things that I did and I was just listening to constant everything. When we made it to– I guess it was two days before my due date, so July 29, I was having fairly consistent contractions in the evening and so we were all excited. We're timing them and we were texting our moms but then they stopped the next morning which was a Sunday before church so we were getting ready to go to church but then I lost my mucus plug in the shower. I was like, “Okay, just in case something is going to happen, we should probably watch online.” We stayed home, watched online, and nothing was happening all day. We knew that we shouldn't get our hopes up but also you make it that far and you're like, “I'm just ready.” Our church had a picnic that night at a local water park so I was like, “Well, nothing has happened all day. We might as well go because we didn't go to church.” We went to this picnic and we were doing the mini playground with our 1-year-old at the time who is water crazy. I think I jumped to get into one of the tubes and felt something kind of funny then around 8:30 PM, I had a really strong contraction. I was like, “Okay. That was unusual.” I went to the bathroom and had bloody show so I went back out and got my husband. I was like, “We've got to go home.” On the drive home, contractions were 8-10 minutes apart. I showered and we called the midwife and our photographer and my mom and grandma who were coming to get my daughter and the dogs because we didn't know how it would go so we didn't want anybody else there who needed care obviously. Meagan: Well and your last labor was actually pretty dang fast. Shelby: Right, yeah so I was like, “I don't know how this is going to go.” My mom came and helped us clean up the kitchen which is where we were going to put the pool and everything. The midwife and her student arrived at around 10:30 PM. At this point, I was between the coffee table and the couch on my knees holding a comb and my husband was pushing on my back. I labored just in that one position for a long time and that felt as okay as it can feel. Then at around midnight, the midwife heard one of my contractions and was like, “That one sounded a little different. Let's get in the pool.” So I got into the pool and that was instant relief. I was able to sit between contractions and try to relax then after a little while, I was too afraid to feel. We did zero cervical checks. I didn't want to know. I was like, I just want to go. After a while, it was so cool how in tune she was with it all. She goes, “Why don't you see if you can feel your baby's head?” I was like, “Are you serious?” So I reached up and I could feel her head. I was like, “Okay. That gave me a little bit of encouragement to keep going.” I would say probably about an hour after I got into the water, my body started pushing. I didn't push voluntarily once. It was wild. I felt something at one point. We were about to change positions again. I had been in the tub for a little while and they were getting the bedroom ready. I was like, “Hold on, something just happened.” I reached down and a big hand-sized bulge of my amniotic sac was sticking out still full of fluid.Meagan: Yeah, I've seen that. It's so cool. Shelby: I told my husband, “Do you want to feel it?” Meagan: It's like a water balloon sticking out of your vagina. Shelby: Yeah, then the midwife was like, “Okay, we're not going to move. We're going to stay here. Obviously this position is good.” I held a comb in my hand the whole time and I had my husband push on my back because with both labors, I have had total back labor. I don't know why. I just have. I mean, she said I pushed for less than 40 minutes which was crazy. I felt her head come out but we didn't know it was a girl yet so that was fun and then I tried to slow down because I knew that sometimes you need a push or a contraction between and you don't want to get pushed too hard and tear but I couldn't. My body literally just pushed her all the way out in one push. That fetal ejection reflex is definitely a thing. So at 2:14 AM was when she was born and my first contraction was at 8:30 PM. I caught her by myself in the water and pulled her up. She had her cord on like a backpack. It was around both arms and her neck so I had her head out of the water but I could barely get her up. The midwife came over and untangled her and I mean, my husband and I just sat there for probably over 5 minutes before we even checked what the gender was because we were just in awe. We didn't even care. We were like, “Whatever. It's fine either way.” So when we finally looked, we saw it was our girl and we already had a name picked out, Elowen Ruth so we got to hold her for a long time but obviously, my midwife could tell that I was bleeding a lot so she had me get out and I had planned not obviously to do Pitocin unless I really needed it especially before baby was born but it was a lot of bleeding. I tried one of our tinctures first and it didn't really slow it down. So we did some Pitocin. She just did it. I didn't even notice. I was sitting there holding my baby and I was like, “You can't make this moment not perfect.” So we did some Pitocin and delivered the placenta. Then we went out and just sat on the couch and my husband made a snack plate and we all– the photographer and the midwife and her student and my husband and I just sat there talking about the birth and eating snacks.Then after a while, my husband got to hold her while I got cleaned up. I did end up having a lot of bleeding.Meagan: I was just going to ask if the bleeding resolved or did it continue?Shelby: I mean, it stopped pretty well. I didn't end up having to go get checked, but about a week later, my mom and when I took the baby into her first appointment at our nurse practitioner, I wasn't even there for me and she was like, “We are running iron labs on you because you look super pale.” I was really anemic and we didn't know so I think that probably was something. Now I know for the future, if I have a lot of bleeding again, I need to get it checked out really fast because I think it really slowed down my healing. Other than the initial pain of a C-section, my vaginal birth recovery was much more difficult. I could barely walk or stand for 4 weeks. I could not believe it. I remember going to my appointment and I was like, “Is this normal?” The birth went so well. I know it was fast but I think it was because my iron was so low. My body just couldn't heal. I did end up having a little bit of tearing but we didn't stitch it or anything. It healed pretty well on its own. It was super painful when I would have to pee and all of the things but eventually, it healed up on its own. But yeah. I mean, we got to sleep in our own bed. Well, I mean, the husband and the baby got to sleep. I could not. That high we were on, my midwife told me, she was like, “Okay. She's probably going to sleep for the next 5 or 6 hours and you should try to also.” I laid there and I was like, “There is no sleeping. There is none.” After that, she's like, “It's time to nurse 24/7.” Meagan: Of course. Shelby: She's 9 months today and we are still breastfeeding which is huge because with my first, I exclusively pumped for 8.5 months and that was so hard. I was so determined. I also took breastfeeding courses leading up to this baby because I was like, “We are going to make this work because I do not want to pump again.” I love nursing. I have to leave for an Army training here in a couple of weeks and I'm planning to take her with me and still nurse her at night time. I'm like, “We're going to make this go as long as we can.” Yeah, I mean, it was wild but so good. Meagan: Wild but amazing. Shelby: Yeah. Meagan: Did you find it healing? Because sometimes I feel like when you have a harder postpartum where you're like, “I'm not walking as well and I'm feeling gross with the iron,” that can be defeating and frustrating. But did you find that healing or were you like, “I would still take this over the other?” Shelby: Oh absolutely. I mean, I definitely had times where I would just break down not only because of the hormones but everything else. With my husband, I'd be like, “I did it. Why is this so hard?” I had prepared for postpartum. I made sure we had help lined up for our daughter and for meals and for everything so I was really able to take the time I needed. I think if I hadn't done that, I don't know what would have happened honestly because I needed it. I couldn't even sit on the couch. I had to be laying down in the bed or I was in pain. Meagan: Dang. Shelby: I think preparing for it definitely helped and the birth itself made it all worth it. Now, I'm like, Yeah, that was really hard for a couple of weeks but that experience made up for it for sure. Meagan: Worth it. Shelby: Overall, with the recovery, I'm like, Man, that was really hard with the C-section. it was two really hard days with the C-section but everyday is a little better. With my vaginal birth, I was like, Man, everyday is gettig worse. It's hurting more. But it was still really good. Meagan: What was it that was in pain? Was it your pelvic floor? Was it your abdomen? Shelby: It was probably my pelvic floor honestly and also because I think I had torn and she came so fast and there was no slow stretching, I mean– Meagan: Fetal ejection. Shelby: From the first one, it was crazy. I think it really was pelvic floor. I remember one of my friends describing it as she just felt heavy. I was like, “Yes. That is what it is.” It just felt heavy and it ached. Yeah. That was hard. I mean, even being in the shower didn't fix it and that was how my husband and I had planned to bond postpartum was showers together and stuff and I would be in there and I'm like, “I cannot stand up. I have to go back to bed.” Meagan: Too much pressure. Shelby: Yeah, for sure. Meagan: That makes sense. Okay, so let's talk about faith and getting yourself through a really, really rough first birth and you finding that faith. Do you have any advice for the listeners to gain faith in their ability?Shelby: Yeah. I mean, for me it was just knowing that God created my body to do this. No matter what had already happened, my body knew how to birth. I think what helped was I was like, Okay, it's already gotten fully dilated and effaced in my first labor. Maybe not gradually or the way it should have, but I was like, I've kind of already done it. I didn't get to the pushing but just knowing that I was designed to do it and through a lot of prayer and speaking and speaking, “God, you created me to do this. You gave me this baby to grow and to birth,” and just the knowledge is the same thing. Learning about how your body was made to do this is just huge and like I said, just praying those specific prayers for me was so important and proclaiming the promises that God has that He is a healer and a redeemer and He cares about our birth stories. He totally does. That was part of His plan from the beginning. I think for me personally, my birth stories are my testimony. I feel like until these two babies, I really was like, Oh, I grew up in the church and I don't really have a cool story which is fine but also with these babies, I'm like, I have never trusted God more with any situation in my entire life other than with the life of my children and bringing them into this world. For me, that was something I didn't really realize until recently too. That same friend was like, “I think this is your testimony.” I was like, “You're so right.” Meagan: That's cool. Shelby: It totally brought beauty from the whole experience. From the first one, you are like, Why in the world did this happen to me? What good could possibly come of this? We're traumatized. My baby is having sensory overload and I'm not at home. It was all of these things and then realizing that I shared about my story and I was able to connect with so many other moms who were like, “I had an emergency C-section” or “I had a really scary birth story” and now when I hear that a mom had a baby, my first thought is, How did her birth go and how is she doing? Did it go the way she planned and is she hurting? Those are my first thoughts instead of, Oh, is the baby okay? Okay, the baby is okay. It's made me really passionate about postpartum moms and at some point, I'd love to do something with that not while I have a 9-month-old and a 2-year-old but just knowing that there can be beauty that comes out of every story because in the moment, it totally did not feel like it with our first baby. Meagan: Right, yeah. That is the case a lot of the time. It feels like there is no beauty at all anywhere in that story and then you go and you listen to these stories and there is beauty in every single story and growth in every single story. There is learning. I think there is just so much to take from these stories. Then I wanted to go over physiological birth. There's a women and infant's blog or website and it says, “A normal physiological birth and birth are defined globally by midwife organizations as a birth that is powered by the innate human capacity of the birthing person and fetus.” The innate human capacity. “This means that there are no interventions performed that disrupt the normal physiological process in the absence of complications that warrant interventions supporting the physiological process of labor and birth has the potential to enhance birth outcomes and experiences.”I do believe so wholeheartedly that there are sometimes here. You had a real thing happening, a real medical–Shelby: Right. Thank goodness for the medical system in that situation, you know?Meagan: Yes. Thank goodness for intervention in that situation but that doesn't mean that we always have to just get all handsy with birth. It does show the benefits of supporting and fostering physiological birth of individuals include reduced Cesareans, increased breastfeeding success, improved birth experience, and reduced cost of care. Now, this world is very cost-minded especially with insurance and all of those things, but in the end, if you look at the reduced amount of money that we are spending when we are not paying for all of the interventions that happen during birth– and they don't always happen. We know that this is not a blank statement where it's like, “Every birth ends this way,” but usually when there's one, there are more. That adds up. Right? In the end, it's like, is that experience worth another experience? Even if you're in the hospital, you do not– you can totally have a physiological birth in a hospital. I love that so much. Some people don't feel safe out of the hospital. Shelby: Right. That's physiological birth. The key is being where you are safe because your body cannot progress as it needs to if it doesn't feel safe. I majored in animal science and I think about how animals won't have their babies if they don't feel safe. I think that we are mammals and our bodies are the same way. If you feel safest at home, awesome. If you feel safest in the hospital where you know you can get care right away, awesome. Yeah. You definitely just have to make that decision for yourself. Meagan: Yeah. I had a client who really wanted a home birth really, really badly. She decided not to, but decided to labor at home as long as possible and she was laboring and she was laboring and she was laboring and I was like, This labor. Something is off. Something is off. It was going but it wasn't really going and through chatting with her and doing a fear-clearing and fear-release to see if we could get over to that next stage, she never said, “I want to go to the hospital.” She didn't say those words but everything else that she was saying to me, that's what I heard. I said, “Why don't we go to the hospital? If we end up coming back home, that's okay but let's go and let's just see how things are going.” She was like, “I don't know,” because she was steering off of her plan in her mind of laboring at home. I said, “Okay, cool. It's going to be your decision.” About 25 minutes later, she was like, “Yeah, let's do it.” I'm not kidding you. The second she got into that car, it was a game changer. Shelby: Oh my gosh. Meagan: Because her mind was like, I'm going. She immediately felt better and safe. She didn't realize that's where she felt safer. We went. We had a total physiological birth. In fact, we didn't know if we were going to make it. She had the baby on the bed and the doctor was not there. Shelby: There's so much mental work that goes into it and everything. For me, knowing that I was going to my house. I hate packing and knowing I didn't have to leave and go somewhere, that was how I felt safe but I know a lot of people who are like, “No, I want to be in the hospital.” I'm like, “Great. Do it. Just make sure you are informed.” Meagan: Make sure you are informed. That is the ending tidbit here to this story. Be informed. Take a VBAC class. We have our VBAC class online. If you have any questions online, you can always email us on Instagram or in our email at info@thevbaclink.com. Hire a doula if you can. Hire a provider that you really, really trust to support you. Find that birthing location. Get the information. Learn what is important to you because what's important to you is going to stand out that day that you are in labor. Get educated. Love yourself. Have faith in you and your body and your baby. You are amazing. You are a true Woman of Strength. Shelby: Yes. So good. Thank you so much. Meagan: Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

If only the going was always easy. But life's not like that. Sometimes we have to travel through difficult times. Times that test our patience, our endurance and our faith. And it's right in the middle of those times that God's Word holds the answers that we need to make it through.   Life Wasn't Meant to be Easy These days, it's a bit unpopular for someone like me to be talking about obedience to God's Word. It's not something most of us want to hear. Aw, come on Berni, teach me about grace, tell me about God's blessings, I want to know more about God's love. That's the stuff people want to hear about and sure, they're all really good things. I mean, really good things. But what about these particular verses of Scripture, John chapter 14, verse 15: If you love me, you will obey my commandments. 1 John chapter 5, verse 3: For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments. No, obedience to God's Word is not a particularly popular concept these days. But the whole point of obeying God, is that the only things He tells us not to do, are the things that are going to bring harm to us and the people around us. So paradoxically, obedience brings freedom. Obedience sets us free from the consequences of our sin ... and sin ... sin always has consequences, right? Okay that's great. But what about when the going gets tough? What about when other people are doing the wrong thing, and we're hurting? What about obedience to God's Word in that place when the degree of difficulty gets ratcheted up to about a 9.9? Psalm 119, verses 20 to 24: My soul is consumed with longing for your ordinances at all times. You rebuke the insolent, accursed ones, who wander from your commandments; take away from me their scorn and their contempt, for I have kept your decrees. Even though princes sit plotting against me, your servant will meditate on your statutes. Your decrees are my delight, they are my counsellors. That's amazing, because the man writing this Psalm, the man speaking to God here, is under a lot of pressure. But he's taken a stand. He's made a decision that he will long for God's will, God's Word, God's ways, when? Just in the good times? No! At all times! Even when evil people are heaping scorn and contempt on him, even when princes are plotting against him. That's a tough decision, but it's the right one. Many centuries later, the Apostle Paul put it this way. Galatians chapter 6, verse 9: So let us not grow weary in doing what is right, for we will reap at harvest time, if we do not give up. The time when God's Word is most important, when God's wisdom is most important, when God's ways are most important, is when the going gets tough. Right in that moment when we want to give up honouring God by living His way, right in that instant, that's when obedience to God's Word is most important. Because in that moment, the enemy wants to snatch your inheritance away from you. But don't give up, because there's a harvest coming. When? Well, at harvest time of course! The trick, I guess, the piece of wisdom, the powerful Word that God wants us to hear today though, is don't give up in doing what is right. Don't give up honouring and obeying God. But that's not always going to be easy is it? One of the things I love about the Hebrew culture in which the Psalms of the Old Testament were written, is the powerful use of picture language to express deep emotions. The Jewish tradition is full of rich, evocative picture language, like Psalm 119, verses 25 and 26: My soul clings to the dust; revive me according to your word. When I told of my ways, you answered me; teach me your statutes. Just drink that picture in for a moment: my soul clings to the dust. It speaks of complete and utter desolation. It speaks of burdens so heavy, a body so weary, that it's lying in the dust, barely able to move. Not even able to lift its head to look up at God. When you're in that place, it feels hopeless. It feels lonely. It feels as though you're the only one who's ever been there, and nobody else understands. My soul clings to the dust. It's a picture that we all get. It's a picture that speaks into the desolation that we've all felt. Perhaps you're in that place right now, where your soul is sucking in the dust, with nothing else to cling to. It's the place where we want to give up, because we don't have a single ounce of energy left in us. Yeah, we've all been there. So, what do you do? What does the Psalmist do? What does he have to say to God? God, revive me according to your word. When I told of my ways, you answered me; teach me your statutes. The first part of that makes a lot of sense – God revive me. The obvious thing to do, the obvious place to turn, the obvious cry for help … although how often do we miss the obvious? The question is, how does God bring that revival to an exhausted and completely depleted soul? Well, the psalmist knows! Revive me according to your word. When I told you of my ways, you answered me; teach me your statutes. You see, when we're in that desolate, dusty place, we need a way back. A real, tangible way back. And that way is through the Word of God. It's through God speaking to us. God's Word is food for the starving soul. God's Word is living water for a parched soul. But how often do we miss the obvious? I've seen Christians from time to time praying for revival. But revival begins at home. There will be no revival unless and until the living water, the Spirit of God, overflows from His people. You and I need revival in our hearts. You and I need to be filled to overflowing with the revelation of God through His Word, the joy of God, the healing of God, the Spirit of God. Revival begins at home! Lord revive me, according to your word. God's Word is a powerful thing, because not only does it bring revival to our hearts, not only does God breathe His Sprit into us through His Word, not only does God deliver His new life for us through His Word, but His Word also brings understanding. And understanding is wisdom. Have you ever found yourself in a situation where you don't understand what's going on – either around you, or in you, or both? Sure you have, so have I. I mean, sometimes we don't even understand ourselves, let alone our circumstances, or the way other people behave and think. And the absence of that understanding, that wisdom if you will, makes life a difficult thing to live. Understanding as it turns out, is the key to living life. Psalm 119, verses 27 to 32: Lord, make me understand the way of your precepts, and I will meditate on your wondrous works. My soul melts away for sorrow; strengthen me according to your word. Put false ways far from me; and graciously teach me your law. I have chosen the way of faithfulness; I set your ordinances before me. I cling to your decrees, O Lord; let me not be put to shame. I run the way of your commandments, for you enlarge my understanding. Understanding is mentioned twice in that passage, once at the beginning and once at the end. Again we see that the Psalmist is going through difficult times – my soul melts away for sorrow – and yet the thing that he asks for is understanding. That in itself is surprising enough. We spend our time asking God to take away the pain when our souls are melting away through sorrow, but the Psalmist is asking instead, for understanding. But understanding of what? Of the ways of God's precepts. In other words: Okay God, Your Word, Your precepts, they're all fine, that's a given. But now, God, I want to understand the ways of your precepts. I want to understand how the rubber hits the road. I want to understand how I can live them out, because I want your strength, I want to put false hope far from me, so teach me. I'll cling to your Word, because I know that as I live it out, You are going to enlarge my understanding. What a powerful prayer. It's a prayer for on-the-job training. You imagine asking God for that, over and over again … imagine the understanding, the wisdom, the power that God is going to unleash in your life. Just imagine! Here's the thing: God wants to do powerful things in you and through you, He just does. And He's put His Word there, the Bible, through which to give you, all the understanding you need. Make me understand the ways of your precepts, and I will meditate on your wondrous works. Wow!   A Heart for God's Word If I were to ask you today, what is the one thing that you're focussing on at the moment, what would that be? What's the biggest thing going on in your heart at the moment? The truth is, that from time to time the things of this earth grab our attention. Some of those things are good things. Some of those things are bad things. In a few months' time my daughter is going to be getting married. Well, you can imagine, that's pretty much the focus of things in our household at the moment. There's nothing wrong with any of that, unless and until the things of this world bubble to the top of our priority list, above God Himself. When that happens, our lives have a way of going pear-shaped. All of a sudden, when we get our priorities the wrong way around, we start to live out the consequences of that. So let me come back to that question: what is your heart focussed on at the moment? What's at the top of your list, hmm? Psalm 119 verses 35 and 36: Lead me in the path of your commandments, for I delight in it. Turn my heart to your decrees, and not to selfish gain. This Psalm is written by a man who is speaking to God. So, when he says: lead me in the path of your commandments and turn my heart to your decrees, He's asking God to do those two things for Him. Psalm 119 blows me away. It's the longest chapter in the Bible – 176 verses all-in-all. And the majority of it is a prayer, asking God essentially to help this man who is writing it, to get his life straight, by getting God's Word into his heart. That's the bottom line of the whole Psalm. God I can't do it on my own, I need your help. That's a great admission, because it happens to be true. And here in verses 35 and 36, the Psalmist is asking God to turn his heart to God's decrees rather than to his own selfish gain. That's the pivot point in our hearts isn't it? Our whole lives swing on this hinge between honouring God and selfish gain. Between right and wrong. And that's why I keep asking you: what's the focus of your heart right at the moment? Where is your heart? Focussed on honouring God or on selfish gain? The answer matters. It matters a lot. There is such power in the Word of God to set you free from your selfishness. Why is it that people leave their Bibles on a shelf somewhere gathering dust? God has the power to set you free. Free from the consequences of sin. All you need to do is to ask Him for His help and He will step in. And here's the thing about God's help. It's intensely practical. Intensely real. In our lives on this earth, you and I, we're prone to trusting things that we can see. It's only natural. We live in a physical world, so we trust in physical things. We know, for instance, that tonight the sun will set, and in the morning it will rise again. We trust in relationships. We trust in our circumstances, good or bad. We trust in our pay packets and our bank balances. And to a point that's as it should be … to a point. Up until the point where we trust in those things above and beyond who God is and what He says He will do. At that point, you've started trusting your life into things that are not worthy of that level of trust. If you have a share-portfolio that's worth a certain amount of money, hey, the market could plummet tomorrow. The same is true of every other physical thing on this earth – they can give way ... in an instant. And so often, we're caught out, because we've place our trust in the wrong things. That's why we need God's help, His intensely practical help, to get our hearts focussed on the right things. Psalm 119, verses 37 to 40: Turn my eyes from looking at vanities; give me life in your ways. Confirm to your servant your promise, which is for those who fear you. Turn away the disgrace that I dread, for your ordinances are good. See, I have longed for your precepts; in your righteousness give me life. So here the Psalmist is asking God to turn his eyes away from all those vanities, all those false idols in which we place our trust. What idols as you trusting in at the moment? In what vanities have you placed your trust? Hmm? Father God turn my eyes from looking at those vanities and give me life in your ways, literally, give me living energy to pursue the way marked out by You O God. That's it! That's what I need, that's what you need. Living energy. Holy Spirit energy, to head God's way, to trust God to lead us forward, rather than placing our hope in false idols. Friend, God's promises are true. Those false idols, ultimately are going to lead you to disgrace. But God's promises will never fail. God I've seen that your ways are good. I long for your ways. Lead me in them. Give me life. What a great prayer. What a powerful way to change your heart. Try as we might, we cannot change our own hearts for ourselves. But God's living energy, the power of His Word, the power of His Spirit – that's where we get a change of heart. That's where we get a change of focus. God doesn't want you to continue trusting in idols, dreading the disgrace that they will ultimately bring. He wants to shift your focus, transform your heart, with His living energy. Because when we walk in God's ways, then all of a sudden we discover what freedom really is. It pains me to tell you this, but for the first thirty-six years of my life, I thought I was free. Free to live my life the way I wanted. But now, looking back on that time before I accepted Jesus into my heart, I realise that I was nothing but a captive. The best way to describe it, is that I looked successful and happy on the outside, but on the inside, I was plagued by fear and doubt. On the inside, I was a complete mess. That's because I was a captive rather than living as a free man. That's because the expectations of this world dominated my heart. Again, the Psalmist puts it like this, Psalm 119 verses 41 to 46: Let your steadfast love come to me, O Lord, your salvation according to your promise. Then I shall have an answer for those who taunt me, for I trust in your word. Do not take the word of truth utterly out of my mouth, for my hope is in your ordinances. I will keep your law continually, forever and ever. I shall walk in liberty, for I have sought your precepts. I will also speak of your decrees before kings, and shall not be put to shame. I really get that bit about having an answer for those who taunt me. The criticism, the mockery of others, used to be like arrows into my heart. Let me ask you, to what extent are you marching to the beat of the world's drum? To what extent are you dancing to the tunes of the expectations of others? And when you can't meet those expectations, people criticise you, people reject you, they throw you out like a worthless piece of trash. We spend way too much time and energy striving, sacrificing, performing in order receive the approval of others, only to fail, only to miss the mark, only to discover that it's a pursuit that's hollow and empty and simply not worth the effort. But the more we get into God's Word, the more we discover the steadfast love that God has for us, the more we get to know God's Word and trust God's Word, the less those things matter. And the less those things matter, the more we discover the freedom that we have in Jesus Christ. I shall walk in liberty for I have sought your precepts! Yes! Hallelujah! Absolutely! Freedom. God's freedom. There is such freedom when we get it into our hearts that we're meant to live our lives for an audience of One. That's what God has ready and waiting for you. True freedom in His ways, in His precepts, in His Word. Jesus said: If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.   Jesus is the Way It's rather an odd thing, but one of the names that Jesus is given in the Bible, is that He is the "Word of God". Now we normally use that term ‘the Word of God' for the Bible itself, because, after all, it's through the Bible that God speaks His words into our lives. Fair enough. But have you ever thought how powerfully God speaks to us through Jesus Himself, the very Son of God ... God in the flesh? This is how the Apostle John puts it. John chapter 1, verses 1 to 5: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people. The light shines in  the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. We all travel through dark times, we just do. And in those dark times, what we need is light. Jesus came to be that light. This is what He said of Himself – John chapter 8, verse 12: I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life. Jesus is God speaking to us in a language that we can understand. And that's why in my own personal reading of the Bible, I always make sure that from time to time, I cycle through one of the Gospels. Right now I'm just about to finish the book of Psalms and head into Matthew's Gospel. Why? Because Jesus is God revealing Himself to us – to you, to me. And I don't know about you, but I need that Light in my life. I need Jesus speaking directly into my life. I need a deep, personal, intimate relationship with Jesus, as I walk with Him and for Him, day by day. Without Jesus, we don't know God, indeed, we cannot know God. Without Jesus we can't find the way to God, because Jesus is the Way. Might I ask you today, what darkness do you have going on in your life? What fears, what uncertainties, what worries are at the forefront of your thinking right at this moment? What situations are confusing you and confounding you and proving completely impossible for you to overcome? Jesus is the answer. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. All things that were created, were created through Him and by Him. He has knowledge and wisdom and power beyond anything we can imagine. And He is the light for all people. That includes you. And when that light, His light, the Light of the world shines in your life, the darkness simply cannot overcome it. Jesus is the answer.

Oh, we all want to hear God speak!

by Mary Lindow DO YOU FEEL AS IF THINGS ARE UTTERLY HOPELESS  AND COMPLETELY UPSIDE DOWN RIGHT NOW?   Maybe you have you been in that scary place before. Most people, if they are being transparent and honest will admit to times of experiencing hopelessness and feeling alone and afraid. Friend. You aren't without hope, You aren't hopeless, But you ARE helpless!   God Has Allowed This Time And Position Of Helplessness And Complete Dependency On Him, And You Are Helpless To Help Yourself.   We struggle to gain back some measure of control over our lives when this pressure is upon us, but our personal pride (that we didn't even know that we had) is being crushed, and the only thing for us to do is to surrender!   NOW YOU MAY FEEL HOPELESS, BUT REALLY…  …IT'S THE CONDITION OF HELPLESSNESS THAT IS CAUSING YOU PAIN.   God Wants You Completely Dependent On Him, and He will keep you a “prisoner of hope” until you are.   OH HOW WEARY YOU ARE OF THE AWFUL REFINER'S FLAME AND THAT SEEMINGLY ENDLESS TWEAKING OF YOUR ATTITUDE! “Okay, God, you can stop now!" you scream. But He doesn't stop. You're caught in a prison of hope and He will not let you out until He is finished with what He began in you.   There are times during the process of pursuing heartfelt dreams and callings in life that you might feel that your "hope" seems to have been locked up in a prison. You can't seem to make your dreams come true, and yet, you find it impossible to stop believing in them!   YOU CAN'T GO FORWARD ANY FASTER THAN GOD WILL LET YOU, and yet, you sure don't want to return to where you once were before you were overshadowed and given a "life vision" with a promise from God!   GOD JUST WILL NOT LET YOU GIVE UP! During this time you might feel like saying, "Okay God, this is enough! I don't want to hope anymore!  I am tired of being like an egg in an incubator with this promise!  I want out of this prison of hope!"   IT'S DURING THIS TIME THAT YOUR DREAMS FEEL SO VERY REAL TO YOU, YET TO OTHERS THEY DON'T! There is a big conflict between what you discern in the Spirit and what appears to be moving so slowly in the natural, and that grates at our souls! We feel like we are on a Ferris wheel. You have your “up times” when you can see your dream's fulfillment far into the future, but you also have your “down times” when you can't see anything and everything seems to have crashed into a messy heap.   YOU THINK TO YOURSELF, “AM I CRAZY TO THINK THAT GOD COULD USE ME? NOW? IN THIS TIME?"   The enemy comes in like a rushing flood and you begin to doubt, causing anguish to your soul.    THIS IS THE TIME WHEN GOD IS DOING HIS GREATEST WORK IN YOU! This is when the refining process REALLY hurts, because He is getting down to the very core of your soul, to the deep regions of your heart.   HE IS DEVELOPING THINGS IN YOU THAT YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT YOU LACKED. THINGS THAT YOU DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT YOU NEEDED.   You think, "Okey Dokey God, this is deep enough!" But, every builder knows you must dig down deep to lay a proper foundation first, before you start to build upward. And the greater the height of the structure, the deeper the foundation must be.   YOUR FORTRESS OR PLACE OF REFUGE IS TRUSTING IN A LOVING GOD. Trusting Him in spite of all the reasoning of your mind, in spite of the circumstances that surround you.   YOU WERE CONTENT TO GIVE GOD CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE UNTIL HE DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR LIFE, YOU DIDN'T LIKE. You were happy to surrender all to Him, until He decided to give your promotion to someone else. You believe in His sovereignty, until His sovereign will conflicts with, your will. Then you are sure He has made a mistake! You want to run from Him, but He is your refuge. How do you run from your refuge? How do you run from the only one who really loves you or understands you? The answer is . . . you don't.   SO, RETURN, MY FRIEND, TO YOUR FORTRESS, AND REMAIN A PRISONER UNTIL HE IS DONE WITH YOU - UNTIL HE DECIDES THAT YOU ARE READY FOR ALL THAT HE HAS FOR YOU. “Return to your fortress! Yes! You prisoners who have hope! Today I declare that I will return double what has been taken from you." - Zechariah 9:12   PROPHETIC WORD OF ENCOURAGEMENT The Spirit of God says, “Even now I announce to you that not only will I restore to you all that has been taken from you, but I will give you double for all the trouble you have endured." He says, "Don't stop now . . . …Keep trusting me, because I can see your future and it is very blessed. Keep walking with me,  and keep trusting in me  and I will give you rest." “Come to me all who are weary and burdened, And I WILL, give you rest." -Matthew 11:28 THERE IS MORE PROPHETIC ENCOURAGEMENT IN THE PRAYER AS YOU LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST THAT IS NOT IN THE TRANSCRIPT HERE. BE SURE TO LISTEN TO THE COMPLETE MESSAGE. Duplication and sharing of this message is welcomed as long as the complete message, podcast location and website information for Mary Lindow is included. 
Thank You! Copyright © 2024 "THE MESSENGER " ~ Mary Lindow
 www.marylindow.podbean.com   www.marylindow.com   If you have been impressed by the Holy Spirit to assist Mary helping her to meet other administrative needs such as website, video teachings and podcast costs, or desire to bless her service with Spirit-led Love gifts or regular support: Please JOYFULLY send your gift in the form of: ► Personal Checks ► Business Checks ► Money Orders  ► Cashiers Checks   To: His Beloved Ministries Inc.  PO Box 1253 Denver, Colorado 80614 USA   Or feel free to use our send a tax-deductible gift with Pay Pal   paypal.me/mlindow Under the name of - His Beloved Ministries Inc. ALL gifts are tax-deductible under His Beloved Ministries 5013c non-profit status. We are financially accountable and have been in full compliance since 1985 with Clergy Financial Advantage. THANK YOU!  

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/RF-3TbX8fXAAs a Christian in Iran, Naghmeh Panahi was arrested numerous times—and once even had a gun pointed at her head. But as awful as that was, Naghmeh says she endured something far worse when she began speaking out about abuse from her husband. It was then that she faced persecution—not from radical Muslims, but from Christians. In this edition of The Roys Report, you're going to hear Julie's powerful interview at the Restore Conference with Naghmeh Panahi. Naghmeh was catapulted into the national spotlight in 2013, a year after her husband, Pastor Saeed Abedini, was imprisoned for his faith in Iran.  With the help of Franklin Graham of Samaritan's Purse and Jay Sekulow of the American Center for Law and Justice, Naghmeh launched the Save Saeed campaign. The campaign garnered worldwide attention. And it eventually led to Saeed's release in 2015. But during this time, Naghmeh learned that Saeed's violence, repeated insults, and spiritual manipulation were not just a sign of a bad marriage. It was abuse.  Yet, when she spoke out about the abuse, the backlash from Christians was virulent and cruel. And the psychological and spiritual damage from that backlash was far worse than anything Naghmeh said she encountered in Iran. In this interview, Naghmeh talks candidly about the abuse and the Christian community's failure to stand with victims. But she also talks about the persecuted church—and how the Western Church's failure to care for the abused and broken is not a bug but a feature.  Drawing from her book, aptly titled, I Didn't Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse, Naghmeh's message is a prophetic witness to the American church—if we will listen in and take heed.  In her talk, Naghmeh refers to recent books by Miriam Ibraheem and Lance Ford. Guests Naghmeh Panahi Naghmeh Panahi is an author, speaker, and Bible teacher. Naghmeh made national news when she publicly advocated for the release of her then-husband, Saeed Abedini, who was imprisoned in Iran for his Christian faith. Naghmeh's autobiography, I Didn't Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse, is available now. Learn more at NaghmehPanahi.com. Show Transcript SPEAKERSNAGHMEH PANAHI, Julie Roys Julie Roys  00:04As a Christian in Iran, Naghmeh Panahi was arrested numerous times and once even had a gun pointed at her head. But as awful as that was Naghmeh says she endured something far worse when she began speaking out about abuse from her husband. It was then that she faced persecution, not from radical Muslims, but from Christians. Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and today you’re going to hear my powerful interview at the RESTORE conference with Naghmeh Panahi. Naghmeh was catapulted into the national spotlight when her husband, Pastor Saeed Abedini, was imprisoned for his faith in Iran. And with the help of Franklin Graham of Samaritan’s Purse, and Jay Sekulow of the American Center for Law and Justice, Naghmeh launched the Save Saeed campaign. The campaign garnered worldwide attention and it eventually lead to Saeed’s release. But during this time, Naghmeh learned that Saeed’s violence, repeated insults, and spiritual manipulation was not just a sign of a bad marriage, it was abuse. Yet when she spoke out about the abuse, the backlash from Christians was virulent and cruel. And the psychological and spiritual damage from that backlash was far worse than anything Naghmeh said she encountered in Iran. In our interview, Naghmeh talks candidly about the abuse and the Christian community’s failure to stand with victims. But she also talks about the persecuted church and how the Western Church’s failure to care for the abused and broken is not a bug but a feature. I am so grateful for Naghmeh’s, prophetic witness to the American church, and I’m confident that God is using that witness both through podcasts like these, and in Naghmeh’s book aptly titled, I Didn’t Survive: Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution and Hidden Abuse.   Julie Roys  01:50 We’ll get to my interview with Naghmeh just a moment, but first, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University and Marquardt of Barrington if you’re looking for a top ranked Christian University, providing a caring community and an excellent college experience. Judson University is for you. Judson is located on 90 acres just 40 miles west of Chicago in Elgin, Illinois. The school offers more than 60 majors, great leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Plus, you can take classes online as well as in person. Judson University is shaping lives that shaped the world. For more information, just go to JUDSONU.EDU. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt are men of integrity. To check them out, just go to BUYACAR123.COM.   Julie Roys  02:56 Well, again, here’s my interview with Naghmeh Panahi on surviving persecution from the church. This is from our last RESTORE conference in October 2023.   Julie Roys  03:07 Let’s just start with a little bit of your story. And again, those of you who know her story, this may be familiar, but I know I learned a lot of new things. You were born in Iran. And the interesting thing is you got to see Iran before the revolution, and then after. Talk about what the change was in Iran when you when you saw that happen?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  03:29 Yeah, I was actually born soon, a few years before the revolution. So, my mom was one of the first women in the king’s army, as a woman, which was pretty radical for her time. And also just, you know, Iran has had Islam for about 1400 years, so not Islamic culture. And she was very proud woman with her gun and protecting the Shah, but also, you know, having authority in a sense that women usually didn’t have. So, my mom was kind of protecting the king from the revolution. My dad was actually one of the people that wanted the Islamic Revolution, because, before the revolution, people like my mom, were wearing miniskirts. And, you know, just like the US, they were free, and my dad and his group of people thought, you know, we’re becoming too westernized. And if we have an Islamic religious revolution, then the culture will be more purified. And so, I kind of grew up in chaos. I saw  tires burning, my mom going, and my nanny would cry, and is she going to come back? Cuz she was trying to defend against the protesters, and then my dad would be in the streets and there was different groups that were trying to take over the government. And they were all radical and there was a lot of people just been killed in the streets. And so, I kind of grew up in a very chaotic political atmosphere of where the country was becoming very Islamic. And so, I went to school I shared in my book, my photo from my school, elementary school and I looked at and I was the most covered up. Like some of the girls had their head covering a little back. Just from the photo, you can tell I was so afraid. I was told you can’t show hair and all this teaching that was like going through the schools about just Islam and how we had to cover up. And so, it was very foreign to me, having seen my mom without a covering, and then seeing her, she had to be all covered up and her rank  taken away from her. And she had to be in an office setting, as a woman couldn’t have any authority over men in any position of power. And so, I was noticing a lot of that changes and the fear that was gripping a lot of the woman. I would actually have a lot of dreams that I was walking in the streets in Iran without head covering, and I was being arrested. And that was one of my, a lot of the nightmares I had. But just the fear of having to cover up and right around the revolution right after there was a war with Iraq. So, I also grew up in war, we had bombs and missiles. And I was just flipping through my social media, and I saw a video with the sirens going off in Israel. And all of a sudden I had a panic attack, because I would hear those sirens all of the time, the bomb sirens and you have to go to shelter and not knowing if your house was going to be the next one that was bombed, or a missile would hit it, or a lot of the Iraqi soldiers were certain parts of Iran were attacking and raping and taking captives and women and children were being killed. And so, it’s brought back a lot of that memory as a child, even just hearing that siren was so hard to listen to.   Julie Roys  06:47 I’m thinking when you’re talking about being covered up your mother losing her rank, being afraid as a woman I mean, I’m thinking of Sheila’s talk yesterday. I mean, this is like modesty message on steroids. As a young girl, how did you internalize, did that make you feel different about you?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  07:04 Yeah, I was told as a seven-year-old at that time. Like when I went to school, I had to dress up, like cover up, I was told that I was sexually appealing to men.   Julie Roys  07:14  As a seven-year-old?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  07:16 That’s what I we had to once I went to school, like six, seven-year-old got to be fully covered. And people I know that had their relatives like their grandmother had married at the age of nine and their mother had married at the age of 12. Right now, we do work in Afghanistan, and since the Taliban has taken over these, as soon as the girl hits puberty, like nine, a lot of times 9-10, they’re being married and they’re now giving birth to babies at like 10, 11, 12. And so yeah, it’s unfortunately it was part of the culture. And as a little girl, you’re told that you had to cover up because it would be tempting to a man as a little seven-year-old. Which is interesting, because years later was like, the purity culture sounds very Islamic.   Julie Roys  08:05 So, your parents did leave. And it sounded like the impetus was the fear that your brother might get drafted in the army. And the little boys were basically sent out there to check where the landmines were right? So, I mean, it was almost certain death. So, your parents escaped out of there and came to the US, settled in Idaho, and then the story of how you became a believer is really phenomenal and interesting too, how your parents when you became a believer, that was not welcome.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  08:41 No. My mom was more of a moderate Muslim. My dad was very strong Muslim. Like he had his prayer life and fasting. I’d never in the Islamic Revolution world, I never heard of the name Jesus. And so, when we came to America, my twin brother who actually he got his doctorate at University of Chicago in quantum physics, and so he was not emotional growing up, and even with the war I was the more emotional one he was, the more like, questioning God. But he was crying like I’d never seen him emotionally. And he said, I know we question Who is God? Why is he allowing, we would see our classmates like their dead bodies in the street. The houses of the kids that we would play with,  completely gone. And we didn’t know if we were next. I mean, just growing up in war was just insane. And so, we had a lot of questions about God. And he came running to me one day when we’d just come to America, and he said, I found the God we’ve been looking for. His name is Jesus. And I was like, what? He had a vision, I guess he had seen Jesus and he said, he is all I felt was love. And I just know we have to find out who this Jesus is. And so that’s how we were saved. We were running around acting like crazy nine-year-olds, like who’s Jesus? And with our limited English, we found some people who, you know, spoke Farsi, and told us and gave us a Farsi Bible. And we thought our parents would be as excited as us. They were angry. My dad wanted us actually, to move us back to Iran. He said, it’s better if we die in the war. You’ve become Christian. You’ve lost your culture. You’ve lost everything. And my full name is Naghmeh Sharia Panahi. So, Sharia is Islamic law. Panahi means protector, so our last name meant protector of Islamic law. And so, my dad always prided himself like we’re related to the Prophet Mohammed, like the Prophet of Islam. And so, for him, for us to become Christian was like, the worst thing ever. And so, he was in the process of moving us back into a war with like chemical warfare. My brother was about to be signed up to go to like, run through the mines. And he didn’t seem to care. He thought us becoming Christian was like the worst thing that had happened.   Julie Roys  11:07 Unbelievable. And despite that, I mean, you would think as a nine-year-old, something like this happens, your parents don’t support it, it’ll be gone, it will be eradicated from your life. Why didn’t that happen?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  11:19 Yeah, my uncle, my uncle, who graduated from university in California, had found a job in Boise, Idaho. And he said, you know, let’s move them there. They’re only nine. It’s just a little feeling. They’re going to forget about this Jesus, you know. And as a nine-year-old, you want to please your parents. They’re all we had in the war. Like, they were our lifeline, and wanting to please them. And so, they thought he said, they’re going to forget about this Jesus. And we didn’t. I mean, it’s by grace of God, he kept our faith, our Bible was taken from us, me and my brother weren’t allowed to even pray together. My dad had a lot of fits of anger. Just a lot of it, we experienced a lot of persecution, anger in the home. And in Idaho, we were pretty much isolated. Try to forget about Jesus, and we didn’t, and it was not until we were from nine until 16-17, where my parents, I guess, were on their own journey. We didn’t know but they were on their own journey of finding Jesus. They were secretly reading the Bible they took from us. I didn’t know that at that time.   Julie Roys  12:26 When did they actually become believers?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  12:29 Right around as I was graduating, I could see they had softened. I would sneak out, as soon as I got my driver’s license, I would sneak out to a church. And I thought they didn’t know but they knew. And they were okay with it because they were reading the Bible. But they didn’t become Christians until I went to college. And when I came home, they were like, We believe we want to be baptized, from nine until 22.   Julie Roys  12:57 And why is it? I’ve always you hear this among Muslims so often, that they have these visions of Jesus, and they come to Jesus through that. I mean, it just seems to be a feature. Why do you think that is?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  13:14 I think that whoever cries out to God, anywhere in the world, God will make himself known. In Iran, you don’t have a lot of missionaries right now. And I would talk to people in Iran, I would talk to, and I would say, hey, I would talk to a woman, I’d say, Do you know who Jesus is? And they would start crying. And they would say, Yes, I saw him in a vision. Like, tell me more. My child was dying, and I cried out to God, and I said, help and Jesus appeared to me and said, I am the way the truth and the life, but they didn’t know much. They just knew that he’d healed their child, or he was the way the truth and the life. Like they knew little parts of who Jesus was. But it was really not hard to evangelize. That’s why I think when I returned to Iran, we saw such a revival because people already knew who Jesus was. They’d seen him in dreams and visions, and they’d already seen him move in ways that wasn’t, we weren’t trying to convince them. They were like, Yeah, we know him. He healed our child, or I saw him in a vision.   Julie Roys  14:15 Wow. So you went to college, were planning on becoming a doctor. You must have done quite well in school.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  14:23 I think coming from an immigrant family, you’re told you have no choice, lawyer, or doctor. We’re in America you have to pursue the American dream.   Julie Roys  14:33 Right. And probably the last place on earth you wanted to go was Iran and yet you ended up back in Iran.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  14:41 I did. My parents really struggle with that because I went right after September 11. And when no one wanted to get on an airplane, and no one wanted to fly into the Middle East. So, I had the whole airplane to myself flying into Iran, and President Bush was like there’s gonna be war in that region. And so, I just felt like God was like, this is the time to go, I’m going to change that land through the gospel. My fight is through the gospel is through love, you know, in Christ. And so, I didn’t know when I went back. And my parents thought I was crazy. I was about to take the MCAT like I was on the road to being a medical doctor. And I said, I need a break. I feel like God’s telling me to go to Iran  I didn’t know that I was going to be at the forefront of a revival. But I just knew God was like, You need to go now. And so, when I went, he allowed me to be at the forefront of revival and be part of leading one of the largest house church movements in Iran.   Julie Roys  15:46 And when you flew over there, was it on the plane, you get those cards, and you have to declare things?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  15:51 In Muslim countries, I don’t know why, but every single they have no shame about discrimination. Religious discrimination is like they don’t there’s like nothing. So, everything you fill out has religion, what’s your religion? So, that’s why Christians when people become Christians, they have to fill up. And because of their conscience, they can’t put Muslim. So, they put Christian so as soon as they put Christian, even like filling out a passport. If they write Christian, they’re arrested. They can’t work if they write Christian, if they’re not arrested, they can’t find job, or they can’t go to school, Christians are not allowed to go to school. And so even on the airplane immigration form, I had religion, and I knew my last name meant I was a Muslim. Like people could tell by your last name, you’re a Muslim, but I knew I was a Christian, I really struggle with that form. And it was right after September 11. And I was like, stepping into radical Iran that I had read about killing so many pastors and hanging them as an example. And I wrote down Muslim.   Julie Roys  16:57 And also because of your name, they would know that you were born Muslim, yeah. That you converted and that’s a major, major no, no.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  17:04 Yeah. I was fine by myself. And I mean, I just felt so bad. I felt like a Peter moment. I just there was so much fear, flying into Iran. And as a Christian, I’d never experienced that. Anyway, I had left Iran as a Muslim. God was allowing me to go back as a Christian and to experience what it meant to really understand the persecuted church. And so yeah.   Julie Roys  17:30 So, you get into Iran. Talk about the church and the, you know, the way the house church movement was going and also about this very charismatic pastor that you saw over there named Saeed.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  17:43 Saeed. Yeah, so I grew up in the purity movement. I was like, when I went to Iran, I was 24. I hadn’t dated I was told first hold, holding hand or first kiss had to be with someone you married. I had some people pursued me in college, good Christian guys that I was like, nope. And so, I hadn’t really experienced  anything. And Iran had right now they don’t they had some building churches, that they allowed the Armenians to conduct church, because the Armenian people are considered Christians. They’re not converting. They were like, they have been Christians for generations. So Iranian government allows for religious freedom for the Armenians to conduct church. They weren’t allowed to let Muslims in like Persians. Persians are, you know, have been Muslims for so many hundreds of years, you know, 1400 years. But the church actually that I met Saeed in had started allowing Muslims to come in and they were converting, and one of them was Saeed. And that’s why they had killed some of their pastors. The government had arrested and killed some of the pastors at that building church. And I saw Saeed he was on. It’s a long story, how I ended up in that church. I had a cousin that had gotten saved and invited me, so I was about to leave Iran. I had been a missionary for one year, and I had five people who accepted Christ. And I was like, Okay, I shared with every single relative, like aunt and uncle gave out Bibles. And there was five people became Christians. And then I was like, Okay, I’m done. I was about to leave.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  19:12 My cousin invites me to this church service. And I go inside Saeed was on stage worship on the worship team. And I really saw a lot of passion for Jesus. And then he was like, I love evangelism. Like that’s my number one passion. And even in Boise, I would always go and evangelize to the refugees, the Muslim refugees that were coming in. And so, he seemed like this great evangelist, and I was really drawn to him. And so, we started working together. He actually reached out to me and said, Hey, you want to do ministry together? And I didn’t realize but he was going to an underground bible school by the Assemblies of God there. And  because the government was heavily persecuting the building church, they were being trained to start house churches. So, at that time, he had about a dozen people, I had five we decided to join forces. And within a few years it grew to 1000s over 33 cities and it was college students, they were our house was in the middle of Tehran-by-Tehran University. And so, all these college students were getting saved. And then they would go back into their city and evangelize. And all these house churches was just popping up. And all over Iran, every 33 major cities had churches, within two years.   Julie Roys  20:34 Very organically.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  20:35 Very, it was all college students, very organic.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  20:39 And women. Women did a lot of leadership. Yes, it’s really I mean, ironic in a Muslim country.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  20:46 Very ironic. I was just sharing that is China and Iran had this revival of house church movement, and women are the main ones leading it. And in a culture like, Iranian culture, where women are literally told their property, and a lot of the Muslim men treat them with a lot of contempt, they don’t have a lot of freedom. And so, a lot of Muslim women are drawn to the church and become saved because they see how the men in the underground church honor women and they’re leading. And the men are completely okay with that. And they’re working together. I mean, there’s no titles, there’s no stage, they call each other brother and sister, even the pastor, which is like a shepherd or shepherdess. It’s called sister like Sister Naghmeh, Sister Julie. So, no one’s called, , no one’s given a title. And actually, being the pastor or the leader of that house church, means you’re going to be the first one to be arrested and killed, you know. And I share in my book about a 10-year-old girl that I met in one of the cities and  she got saved at 10. She was passionate by 25. She was a discipling like 500 women. And she was arrested, tortured, and solitary confinement. She would not even give out one name, she was defending her flock. She went through so much. And she came out she’s like, I didn’t give out one name. They weren’t able to find any of the 500 people that she was discipling. And so that’s what it means to be the leader, it’s, you’re literally laying down your life for the sheep. It’s not like a place of popularity, it’s actually not a place, I’ve shared that in the podcasts with you. Not a place that a lot of narcissists like to serve. It’s not fun.   Julie Roys  22:33 I mean, that’s the thing, if you hear so often, the shepherd should be the first to lay down his life, right? And if that were the case, it does just sort of naturally weed out the chaff.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  22:47 Literally, if you’re the leader means you’re going to be the first one that’s arrested and tortured. So what narcissist want to do that? So, you don’t see a lot of narcissists. And you don’t see, unfortunately, you don’t see a lot of the men wanting that position. So, a lot of the women are the ones carrying the torch of the gospel, and they’re the ones being arrested. They’re the ones being raped. They’re the ones being tortured. They’re the woman by the well that Jesus is using. I was sharing with one of my pastors recently, I was like, how dare God use women on the underground churches in Iran? Why does he do that? But it’s the woman but they’re not getting any popularity. They’re literally being tortured and killed, but they’re the ones, the weak, Isn’t doesn’t Jesus says he uses the weak, broken? It is the weak, broken woman who’ve been so shattered in that society that God is just lifting up and honoring and giving the privilege to suffer for the gospel.   Julie Roys  23:45 And where we see the church shrinking in the West, in these places where it’s organically happening without all of the money and the programs and, you know, all the seven steps to this that are the other thing. The gospel is going forward.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  24:02 Yes, it is going without a program. It’s weak vessels that society has crushed, that Jesus is honoring and using for the gospel in one of the hardest countries in the world that has the most crazy governments. With great wisdom, God is using that. And doesn’t he say that in his word? That’s who he uses, but it’s really It’s so confusing for me because I see that happening in the Middle East. And then the way women are honored in a place where they haven’t been. And then I see something different here, which has been so hard to try to digest that. But it’s so radical. I mean if you guys could understand how radical it is. And I know you’ve watched like sheep among wolves and all that. It’s radical for women to be leading in the Middle East, the house churches. Just think about that in a culture that has said You’re nothing your property, just how radical that is. And for Jesus during his time to do that too; be so radical in the way he honored women. I am just still shocked by the fact that how the men in the house churches really honor the women and really  God, it’s the work of the Holy Spirit. There’s no other explanation.   Julie Roys  25:19 It is so cool. So, you told of a time when you denied the Lord, but you had another chance.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  25:26 Yeah, I told the Lord. I went home and I cried, I said, God, if I have another opportunity, I will not deny your name. And two and a half years later, I was arrested. But I’ve been arrested a lot. Many times, for the gospel. We were like, if we were smuggling Bibles, like at night, we would try to move around Bibles and give it to different house churches. So, we were arrested many times, there’s so many stories. But there was an incident where it was the scariest because I was actually detained. I have guns pointed to my head, we were basically told, if you say you’re a Christian, you will go to a woman’s prison, you will get raped and tortured and you will die. If you say you’re Muslim, you get to walk out this door right now. And everything within me wanted to be Muslim. I just want to get out of that door. I had the radical Revolutionary Guards all around me with guns and I was just like, Okay God, you know how the Bible says, he will put the words in our mouth? And I said, I’m a Christian. And the story is more detailed in my book. But towards the end of it,  this top interrogator was crying and asking for a Bible. The guy that threatened to kill me, was actually ended up asking for a Bible.   Julie Roys  26:46 And Saeed said that he got his inspiration from you because you. . .   NAGHMEH PANAHI  26:52 There was three of us that got arrested. The first guy wrote Muslim, and then it was my turn. And so, I wrote Christian, and the Revolutionary Guard interrogator asked for my testimony. He said,  basically my testimony was the evidence that was going to convict me of the death sentence they were going to give me for converting. And then Saeed also said he was Christian. And he told me after we left, I was gonna write Muslim. But when you said Christian, I got inspired to also write Christian. So yeah.   Julie Roys  27:32 So, you guys come back to the States. You end up getting married to Saeed. There were some red flags in your dating relationship, obviously, that you talk about in the book. And we don’t have time to go into all of what happened. But what was your life with Saeed behind closed doors?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  27:55 Yeah, so Saeed had never been to the states. We came to the States in 2005, after a lot of persecution. But in Iran, it was the first full on physical abuse happened when we fled Iran in Dubai. So about a year and a half into our marriage, but I didn’t see the signs of abuse, obviously, now looking back, but early on, he didn’t find me attractive. He would say, you’re so dark, and you’re so ugly, and you need to do nose surgery, you need to do surgery with your eyebrows, and you need to lose weight. And so, he was just, pretty much I start questioning, I said by that by the time we were  eight years into the marriage before Saeed’s arrest, I couldn’t even think for myself. I remember the interviews, I would tell people, this is the first time I’m processing life without Saeed because I would have to ask him permission, what do I say? And it was really hard  being put in the spotlight and having to rely on my own. Not as Saeed  to give answers. It started out with him putting down my looks. And then it was like, questioning the way I was seeing things and then questioning the way I was looking at Scripture and saying, I was idolizing scripture, I needed to let the Holy Spirit , you know, his own idea of what the Holy Spirit is. And just he started questioning my understanding of Scripture. There was not a full-on beating, but he would shove me he had me beg. He would have me beg and kiss his feet. It’s in the book. There’s some really hard stuff in the book. But pretty much, after eight years of marriage, we came to America because of intense persecution. And then after four years of being in America from 2005 to 2009, we didn’t go to Iran, but then he started traveling. And then he got arrested. He thought, Well, we haven’t done house church for four years. I can go back. He went back and forth, back, and forth. 2012 was arrested the time he was arrested; I was a shell of a person. I had no friends. He cut off my family, my friends. I had so much makeup on, I was 30 pounds lighter than I am now. I tried everything to be exactly how he wanted me to be. And I couldn’t show emotion. If I cried, he would say you’re trying to manipulate me with your tears, he would get very angry with tears. I couldn’t laugh, I couldn’t express any emotion. So I was just like this very dead person, just basically, I worked full time he didn’t work. So, I was full time I was a slave, I was working full time taking care of the kids cooking, cleaning. And he was just traveling, and I was funding his travels. And so I was, close to death. I didn’t realize his imprisonment was my freedom. I did not see it; I was so mad at God. And I explained it in my book. I thought God was being so cruel to me. Now I have to try to get my husband out of the worst prison in the world.   Julie Roys  30:55 And you are gone from being premed, you had done incredibly well in school, then you help your dad run his business.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  31:02 I was very confident.   Julie Roys  31:03 Confident, competent, all of these things. And after these years of marriage, you have been reduced to that point. And then you start advocating for him. It doesn’t dawn on you that you’re being abused till pretty far along in the whole process. But talk about when you finally because I think a lot of people have heard you know the story up until this point. But then you advocated for him. And then you got to the point where you finally said, it dawned on you you were being abused. And you said something.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  31:36 Well, the reason it dawned on me if he hadn’t had a phone, most people don’t realize this part of the puzzle. The last year of his imprisonment, he had obtained a smartphone where he could literally get on the internet in maximum security prison in Iran. It was a smuggled phone worth $7,000 to get that phone to him. But I’m glad it happened. Because at first I was like, why does he have a phone and he’s treating me like this? He would call me Jezebel, like that was the number one word he’d use against me. whore and again, you’re ugly, you’re nobody if people are clapping, they’re clapping for Abedini, Saeed Abedini. They’re not clapping for you. I’m the hero of the story. He saw that I met with Obama I met with Trump I  was on the news. And we did a prayer vigil with Mr. Franklin Graham and 2 million people watching online and he saw when he called me for the first time he saw this confident woman that he had destroyed for eight years. So, he saw, Oh, she has confidence in Jesus. I dreamed in his time of imprisonment. It was my time in the cocoon. I was reading the word praying again, because I couldn’t even pick up the Bible when I was in abuse. I couldn’t imagine, I kept myself pure. I had been a missionary and part of me was really mad at God for allowing me to suffer like this. I mean, I describe a lot of hard things in the Bible. In my book, I was raped by him. It was just a horrible, horrible marriage.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  33:15 And so, part of me, I guess, had distanced myself from God thinking, I kept myself pure. I wanted to serve you. Why would you allow this? And so, when he was in prison, actually, I drew close to God and like you said, I had been raised in a home where my dad gave me a lot of confidence. And so anyways, my Heavenly Father was like, really, through the Bible I am finding confidence. So, when he got a smartphone, he saw that confidence and he was scared. I didn’t see it at that time. So, as he was calling me all sorts of names, I’m writing articles for The Washington Post and New York Times. I'm writing op-eds on being on the news and traveling, speaking in churches and he’s calling me names. I couldn’t understand why because people are like, Your husband must be so proud of you. I was literally traveling the world getting him out. He had an eight-year sentence. He spent three years in prison, six months in house arrest, but he could have been there for a longer time. They were actually going to give him more and more years. People are like, he must be so proud. You’ve met with presidents to get him out and then here he was calling me names and I couldn’t get it.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  34:22 So finally, I broke coming from the Middle Eastern culture and the Christian culture, you don’t want to air out your dirty laundry. So, I didn’t tell anyone even my parents had experienced abuse themselves. He had physically beat up my dad, but it was a culture of you don’t divorce no matter what, but also a culture, you don’t talk about it. So, for the first time I shared with this pastor that I was speaking at his church, I said, I don’t understand. Here’s all these text messages he’s sending on Skype to me. He’s calling me all sorts of names. I don’t get it like why? And he said, “You're an abused wife. He said, This is why he is And then it started making sense Oh, he needed to crush me to control me. And I wasn’t crushed. During his time of imprisonment, God was setting me free inside was seeing that. And so, he was calling me all sorts of names. And when this pastor gave me the diagnosis, that was it   There was no going back. Because before then I was like, I have a hard marriage. And then once I knew it was cancer, I’m like uh, this needs chemo, and I knew I had to educate myself on what abuse was and what do I do?   Julie Roys  35:35 And so, you sent an email. To like, 100 close supporters.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  35:39 Yeah, I was like, Nah, this is the way the media has blown it up. I sent an email to really close friends. And then that got leaked to the media. And then yeah, I was, I think Lori Anne Thompson said this stone was like the person bleeding by the road. I was like, stones were thrown at me. I was bullied by Franklin Graham, told to shut up. You’re damaging the cause of Christ. He used every power every connection he had. And he was like, You’re never ever going to do ministry again if you talk. I was like, I don’t want to do ministry. I just want to live quietly in Boise, Idaho. Why is ministry an idol? He was scaring me but saying you’re never gonna do anything. I’m like, It’s okay, I don’t want it. So, he couldn’t hold that over me. But I lost everything like Lori Anne Thompson said, I had to quit my job to advocate for him. So, my income had been speaking engagements. And that was taken from me. So, all of a sudden I’m in the middle of he comes out, files for divorce, because how dare I have leaked, shared with a group of people that leaked information about abuse. And so, he came out filed for divorce, the worst thing I was afraid of which was actually my freedom. But at that time, it was heartbreaking. Because I fought to get him out. He didn’t even want to fight for our marriage. He just came out and filed for divorce. And I literally lost everything. I lost my marriage, I lost my income, I had stones thrown at me, I was literally by the side of the road. And all the religious leaders were like either kicking me, or quietly walking by. It was very few that were there, all the text messages stopped, all the Naghmeh, we got you and my poor kids too, they would always get gifts and support. They would get so many gifts on their birthdays. And it all of a sudden stopped. And they’re like, Mom, what happened? And all of a sudden, we’re just like, I mean, I got so many calls from past, pastors that were just throwing things at me. And I had a really interesting experience with Family Research Council too. And so, it was just like, a lot of stones at a time where my marriage was falling apart. And yeah, it was a very difficult time.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  35:43 So that the title of your book is I Didn’t Survive.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  37:58  People don’t like that. They’re like you’re a survivor.   Julie Roys  38:03 But the old Naghmeh is not the Naghmeh who’s sitting here is this like Dr. Monroe said, you know that you change your different. How have you changed and why?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  38:19 I am not the person I was 10 years ago once I went to prison. I think I would describe it like a caterpillar going into the cocoon. The caterpillar is no longer the caterpillar, it's a butterfly. There’s a confidence I have in God. There’s a lack of fear of what religious leaders. My Goliath was Franklin Graham. He used every power he had to shut me down. I know this for a fact. Some megachurch pastors called me and said yeah, Franklin called us and every person I reached out for help, Franklin would call and say if you help her, you know? And so yeah, there’s a lot of stories. I don’t have fear of losing anything. I know that losing income, ministry, people’s praises, all of that fell and the old Naghmeh was afraid of losing a lot of things like marriage, status, income, even as a single mom; all that fear is gone. He’s been my provider, day in and day out. I live for Christ and if people don’t like that, then it’s okay. I don’t get any benefit from people either copying or so there’s a lot of people pleasing. I’m just not the old Naghmeh. The old Naghmeh was so afraid, scared about people’s opinion. I mean, I care for people but I’m not a people pleaser. You would have been surprised to meet the Naghmeh of 2012. She would have been a completely different person.   Julie Roys  39:49 Thing Mariam said in her book, that she said that the domestic abuse that she suffered by her husband was worse and If you read Miriam’s book, I can’t quite even wrap my head around what can be worse than some of the things that she suffered at the hands of Muslim persecutors. But in what ways was that worse when you get persecuted from professing Christians?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  40:22 She said it’s worse? So, Miriam and I are, she’s one of my best friends. And she came out of Sudanese prison. She was on death row, and I met her soon after she’d given birth to her daughter, Maya in prison. And then she faced this horrific, you will read her account in prison in her book that’s out there. The prison experience her growing up as a refugee in Sudan. Her mom was a refugee. Her dad was Sudanese, and she grew up in a horrible situation and then she was given the death sentence by the radical Muslims there in Sudan and treated horribly. For her to say what she experienced in domestic abuse and the church’s response was worse than that? I was like, “Are you what?! She said she knew that was the enemy, she’s like, I knew that was my enemy. I knew that those people that had persecuted me where my enemy. I didn’t expect it to come from my home. And I didn’t expect it to come from my Christian community. Like that was what was like I think you said that about Lori Anne Thompson’s, that it came from the church is the most messed up thing with the name of carrying the name of Jesus to for broken people that Jesus so cares about to be trampled on. And use then abuse is I just that just, it’s so messed up. And so that’s why she says that she’s like, I didn’t expect it in my home, that my enemy would be in my home and that the way the Christian community respond to her she was a Christian hero for standing up to the Muslim community in Sudan. And then she was a bad person for wanting to divorce her abusive husband. No one wanted to touch her. She shares that. It’s like the modern leper, she Yeah, she  actually became homeless, no one wanted to help her. She had to flee her home with her two kids that had just left Sudanese prison. And no one wanted to touch it. No one wanted to get her a lawyer help get her nothing. She had nothing. She just come out of Sudan with no English. She filed for divorce in 2018. So, four years after she came out from Sudan, so she knew a little bit of English, but she had never worked in the US. I mean, she literally was helpless. She had no family. Her mom had died. I mean, she had no family and the Christian community that had tried to help her escape Sudan was now like, don’t talk to us, don’t reach out. Don’t talk to us. Like she became a leper. Yeah, so I wish she was here. And we tell her story.   Julie Roys  42:56 Yeah. So last question because we’re gonna have to wrap up. But having been through what you’ve been through, seeing what you’ve seen in the house church movement in Iran, then coming to the US and experiencing what you did by the American church, what message do you have for the American church today?   NAGHMEH PANAHI  43:18 To get Lance’s book. It's so messed up the way the system is destroying is not Christianity, what we have here is a system it’s a business. It’s not laying down your life for the sheep. It’s actually like Ezekiel, where God’s like you’re abusing,  you’re using the sheep for your own benefit. A good shepherd would actually lay down. I mean, Paul says, you know, parents should give to the children, not children, like he should have been this rich pastor, and he’s like, I’m poor. I’m homeless. I’m treated like he wasn’t a great speaker, he wouldn’t be probably have any church gathering. And so, it’s just the way the system is really. If anyone that comes from the house church movement in Iran or China, they come here and they’re like, Oh, the church is asleep, like there’s no church. There’s buildings, people are gathering in buildings, but the church is dead. Anyone has ever come that’s the first reaction they give is, wow, the church here is sleeping. And so, I would say I think we really need to rethink and not just read about Jesus was the servant, what does that mean in my life? And I love what Lori Anne Thompson said that we don’t also as abuse survivors, we are not the heroes either, Jesus is. I think the reason I wrote my book is that it's not heroic, someone wrote a review. It’s not about anyone being a hero. It’s about the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony, and my hope is my testimony is going to help draw people to Christ because I’m not the answer. Christ is. And so that’s why I’ve kind of refrained from writing a curriculum or having an answer. I’m and like Jesus, he helped me, point to him. And so, we’re not the heroes. You know, as survivors, or as the persecuted church. The persecuted church doesn’t want to be heroes. They’re just following Christ. But I think we can learn a lot from the persecuted church and really learn what it means to carry our cross. I don’t think the American church really, the leadership understand what that is. What does it mean to carry your cross and die to yourself daily?   Julie Roys  45:36 And I do believe that out of the ashes, new things are coming. And who was it that said, maybe it was last night at the dinner that I think it was Laurie Adams Brown, who said that she believes that survivors and a lot of what’s happening for people that have been through this who have really experienced the pain of what’s happened, it’s fertile ground for a new thing to happen in the church. And so that’s my prayer.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  46:07 I think this is my I’ve prayed and cried out to God many times. I think God’s gonna use the broken. We are looking for oh, I think Sheila said that, too. We’re looking to these big platforms to do something and God’s like, No, I’m going to use the little scattered broken people on the outside. You keep looking to these megachurch pastors see, please see this. And they’re not because for them to see it, it means their whole world would be toppled upside down. And so, we’re trying to change these big organizations. But a lot of times the answer is actually Jesus is like, no, I’m actually going to  do a work outside of that. And that’s going to, yeah, anyways, I think just having spent many hours just crying for the church in America, because I was born and raised for the first nine years in Iran. But I’ve been in America for like 37 years. And so, I’ve cried for this country. And as a Christian, and I think he’s going to work in a way we didn’t expect him to. It’s not going to be people with platforms, it’s going to be a grassroot, no one’s going to be the hero, it’s only going to be Jesus. I tell people because they like to build heroes. I’m like,  don’t look to me to be the chain. It’s gonna require every one of us, like Sheila I think said, and a lot of the speakers. It’s going to be a grassroot because like I said, Jesus Himself, God is a jealous God. He deserves all the glory; he’s going to be the Savior. There’s no minnie saviors that are going to change the climate, you know, here. So, it’s just gonna be all Jesus. But all of us are just a voice. But we need to use our voice. And I think what Lori Anne said, or Adam said is true, I think it’s going to be a lot of the movement is going to start with the survivors and the broken. And that’s why people ask me, you were so passionate about the Middle East, I still work with the underground church in Iran and Afghanistan. I’m not a ministry, but I try to collect money and just give everything there. But I also care about their views, then they’re like, this is kind of two different worlds. I’m like, No, it’s not. Because Jesus is with the broken, the persecuted church is broken. The abused are broken, they’re both desperate for God. And guess what God cannot resist? God cannot resist His people being broken. Like he will step in like you have not. Gloria Thompson said she was like, once she had her daughter, she’s like, I will fight for her. And God is that jealous for us. And when we’re broken, that’s when God’s steps in. And so, for both the persecuted church and the abused, my heart is for them. First of all, Jesus says, If you want to minister to me, minister to the least of these my brothers. So, if you want to actually walk with Jesus, it’s not on the big platforms. It’s literally walking with the least of these. That’s where I experienced Jesus is when I’m walking with an abused woman. I’m not on I’m literally just, I’ve had abused woman live in my house, like, that’s where I’m experiencing Jesus, or when I’m working with the persecuted church, who have no money to eat, and they’re still carrying forth the gospel. They’re in these countries that are sanctioned. They’re so poor, and as Christians, they’re even poorer, but they continue to take the gospel. So when I hang out with the least of these, I truly experience the move of the Spirit. And so, they’re related. The persecuted church, and the survivors abused, you know, women and men. They have a common thread that is attractive to me, and that’s brokenness and desperation for God. Anyways.   Julie Roys  49:47 Naghmeh, every time I sit with you, I get inspired. Thank you so much. Thank you for so truthfully telling your story and for being an inspiration to so many of us.   NAGHMEH PANAHI  50:02 Thank you, Julie. And I just so appreciate it. You know, people have attacked you before being divisive and like, trying to go after the church, but your heart to bring healing to the church is I think I just know there’s going to be I’ve prayed for this, there should be 10s of 1000s of people coming to this conference of just finding that restoration. And you know, and so I appreciate your work so much. And yeah, keep going. You have my prayers. And so, thank you. Thank you.   Julie Roys  50:45 That was just such a special interview with Naghmeh Panahi, and it’s one of many unforgettable moments from our last RESTORE conference. And if you’re listening and thinking, man, I don’t want to miss out on that next RESTORE conference, I want to encourage you to send us an email at The Roys Report at JULIEROYS.COM, and just put in the subject line RESTORE EMAIL, and we’ll be sure to add you to our email list. And then when we announce the date and all the information about the next conference, you’ll be sure to be the first to know. Also, if you’re grateful for these interviews and talks, which we’re making available free of charge, would you please consider giving to The Roys Report. As I’ve noted before, we don’t have any big donors or advertisers, we simply have you the people who care about abuse and corruption in the church and want to expose it. To donate, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. Also, just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts or Spotify. That way you won’t ever miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. Read more

Have you ever felt like you're not hearing from God in your business? Are you wanting to finally hear from the Holy Spirit every day? If so, then this piece of content was created just for you, because in it, we cover why you're not hearing from the Holy Spirit in your business & how to change that. To be quite honest with you, this is a question I get frequently, and I believe it needs its own episode because more people need to know and understand the answer to this question. It's time for more people to hear from God on a daily basis, don't you think? We are covering FIVE different reasons WHY you may not hearing from the Holy Spirit AND the solutions to each of those. Because y'all, there have been so many moments where I was like, “Okay, God, I know you're with me... but I don't know what to do. Please tell me what to do.” And then it just feels like there are crickets. And then I just wish Jesus was right in front of me, where I can see Him and He can tell me what to do.  I know I am not the only one who has ever felt this way and I want you to know that there have been so many moments where I've been like, “Okay God, I feel like you're trying to tell me something.. but it doesn't feel super clear, so can you just come out and just tell me?” If this is you, you are not alone. Over the last year and a half, He has really been showing me why I may not be hearing from Him and how to change that. Which is why I knew I needed to share this with you. As always, this is a juicy one. You know I don't hold back.   MENTIONED:   The Collective -> www.hannahbrindley.com/membership   Faith-Fueled Business Blueprint Waitlist -> www.bit.ly/blueprintwaitlist     BLOG:   Read this episode –＞ www.hannahbrindley.com/blog/episode83   CONNECT: Instagram –＞ @hannahbrindley     FREE RESOURCES:   Called to CEO Facebook Community –＞ https://bit.ly/reclaimedtoreign   The Called to CEO Confidential –＞ bit.ly/powerprompts Get faith-fueled life & business coaching delivered straight to your inbox   ROOTED: 3 Day Devotional Series for Faith-Fueled Female Entrepreneurs –＞https://bit.ly/3daydevotional   30 Days of Provision (Scripture Download + Prompts) –＞ https://bit.ly/30daysofprovision   Attract Your Queendom (Learn to Attract Your Ideal Clients to You) –＞https://bit.ly/attractyourqueendom     WORK WITH HANNAH:   1:1 Coaching Options –＞ www.hannahbrindley.com/services   Faith-Fueled Coach Academy (Signature Course) –＞ www.hannahbrindley.com/fca For faith-fueled females who are ready to start + scale a Holy Spirit led coaching business Called to CEO Collective –＞ www.hannahbrindley.com/membership For faith-fueled female entrepreneurs ready breakthrough spiritual warfare + self-sabotage in life + business   CONTACT: Email –＞ hannah@hannahbrindley.com

In the book of Exodus God commands Moses to go to Egypt and rescue the Israelites. Moses was like “Okay God, but you know, like what should I say?” Basically Moses is saying, “Yo, I don't want to look all crazy when I get there.” You know sometimes when you tell people GOD spoke to […]

I thought we'd begin this week with a bit of Trivia. You want to know what this is? This is considered the oldest known complaint in the world. It's 4000 year old Akkadian cuneiform tablet written by a man named Nanni who complains about a substandard ingot of copper he received by the hand of his servant and in the letter he demands a refund. Complaining, as it turns out, is one of the oldest art forms in history. We can complain about anything from copper ingots to cold weather to people cutting in line, to poor customer service, our unreasonable boss to a boring movie to an overpopulated city and its traffic, and the worst of all, not being able to connect to Wi-Fi. But sometimes our complaints center on things that are much less trivial. Sometimes our complaints arise out of deep suffering. When we are pinned down in an uncomfortable situation, we complain by demanding an answer to the why question? Why am I suffering? Why this betrayal? Why this death? Why this injustice? Why this financial hardship? Why my marriage? Why are my children like this? Why am I here? Lord, why don't you change things? Last week James gave us three commands on how to be righteous in the face of suffering and not complain. Be patient, trust God and don't complain. Now this week James is going to work that out through EXAMPLES. Examples are helpful because examples are simply commands applied in real life situations. He says, let me point you to some biblical examples of people who did a good job of being patient, trusting God and not complaining in their impossibly hard situations. So James give us the prophets and God's servant, Job. So let's start with the prophets. Now the prophets are amazing. The prophets have been given the most unrewarding of all possible jobs. Let's first consider Isaiah. Isaiah When we open up the book of Isaiah we see God's assessment of the nation of Israel. God says, my people have not heeded any of my warnings. They don't even know me. And for the rest of chapter 1 and into the next chapters he outlines the many ways in which Israel has turned away. Now in Isaiah 6, the prophet Isaiah has a vision of God and it's breathtaking. It really just knocks Isaiah on the carpet. And the Lord says, Isaiah, will you go to my people and preach who I am? Will you preach what you just saw? And he said by all means. Yes, I'll go! Send me! But here's where it gets interesting. Isaiah, I'm not sure you're going to like your mission. I'm going to send you to preach the gospel to my people for the next 20 or 30 years and no one will listen, believe or respect you in any way. Ever. You will never see fruit in your ministry your entire life. You will live your entire life without witnessing a shred of evidence that anything you ever said or did mattered. I'm letting you know in advance that they will never respond no matter how much you beg and plead. They will persecute you, marginalize you and basically make your life miserable until you die. - In fact your job is to harden hearts by speaking truth and being rejected. - The more you try to show them truth the blinder they will become. - The more you try to get their attention the heavier their eyes will become until they just fall asleep. - The more you talk the more plugged up with wax their ears will become. Look at Isaiah 6:9 And Isaiah responded, "Well that doesn't sound like much fun? How long do I have to do that Lord?" Preach the truth until everyone is judged. Preach until a foreign nation obliterates them and they are utterly destroyed. Okay, now get going. That's hard. God, why? Why would you want me to do that? Why do you want me to beat my head against the wall with ZERO results? You want to talk about a job that might require a little patience? You want to talk about a situation in which you might be tempted to complain? Isaiah can relate. James says look at the prophets. What do you think was motivating Isaiah? What caused him to go year after year after year, watching the horrible hard-heartedness that led to destruction? What enabled him to keep going? What enabled him to keep preaching to this stiff-necked rebellious people? What made him able to not complain and to be patient? Think about it. CAN YOU GUESS WHAT IT IS? Jeremiah Consider Jeremiah. Jeremiah preaches during the Babylonian invasion of Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar is steaming forward. Jeremiah, go tell Jehoiakim that I'm going to use Nebuchadnezzar as a rod to discipline the nation of Israel. You have disobeyed me; therefore you will be destroyed by him. - Jehoiakim sees Babylon assembling for battle and they are scurrying about like ants trying to prepare for battle and God says, "Jeremiah, Go up to the king and here's what I want you to tell him to his face. Prophesy over him and tell him that he is going to lose this battle." - Tell Jehoiakim, "The right thing to do is to surrender to Nebuchadnezzar and to submit to him." Okay, that's your job. Now go. Jeremiah argued to God. God I'm only a child; I don't know how to speak to kings. But God says, "That excuse doesn't work. I'll give you the words. Get yourself ready!" Jeremiah says, "Are you kidding me? Everybody is going to think I'm a traitor! You really think he's going to listen to this message: Hey, Jehoiakim, you know that pagan overlord, Nebuchadnezzar? Yeah, well, God wants you to give up and let him take you into captivity. They're going to think I'm a traitor." And that's exactly what happened. They did think he was a traitor. In Jeremiah 11 we read of all the friends in his hometown (these are his elementary school classmates, those who grew up together), they all assemble and say, we have to kill this guy. He's spreading the language of sedition. We read of the temple prophets conspiring to kill him. Jeremiah discovers the plot to kill him and he complains to the Lord about his persecution and the Lord responds by telling him. "Oh, don't worry, it's going to get way worse." And sure enough. Jeremiah is beaten and put in stocks. He is thrown into a cistern where he starts sinking in mud. They are starving him. We call Jeremiah the weeping prophet. He writes a book in our Bible called Lamentations. But he can't stop speaking. He just keeps speaking. You want to talk about a job where you might be tempted to complain? How about Jeremiah? God why? James says, look at the prophets. What do you think was motivating Jeremiah? What caused him to sit in that muddy pit and trust God? What do you think motivated him to keep on speaking despite the terrible suffering and persecution? Think about it. CAN YOU GUESS WHAT IT IS? Hosea Then you have Hosea. God comes to Hosea, and he says, "Hosea, you're never going to be any kind of prophet until you understand what the betrayal of the nation of Israel feels like to the heart of God. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to marry a prostitute. I want you to marry a woman who will never be faithful to you. I've given her a fitting name, Gomer. You're going to marry Gomer, and she's going to continually be unfaithful to you." God says, "She's going to continually commit adultery. It's going to just absolutely gut you. You are going to love her to death and she's going to have affair after affair after affair. You're going to have to continually forgive her and go get her and buy her back and carry her back to your home. And you are going to love her again even though she hurt you so badly. And you are going to have to go through that difficult process of rebuilding trust. That's the training routine you are going to need to suffer in order to be a usable prophet in my hands. So I just want you to live that life on repeat for the next 30-40 years. Cool? You good with that? You want to talk about a job where you might be tempted to complain. I think Hosea can relate. God why? James says, look at the prophets. What do you think was motivating Hosea? What caused him to go year after year after year, watching the unfaithfulness of his wife. What enabled him to forgive time after time after time? I mean can you imagine the sorrow? Just horrible sorrow all the time. God says to all these prophets, "Get going." Hosea. Get going. Jeremiah. Get going. Get going, Isaiah. Their lives were suffering. They never had answers. Nothing ever went right for them. God says, "I want you to obey me. Be patient and don't complain." What do you think caused the prophets to be so patient? What do you think motivated them to keep serving the Lord despite terrible suffering and persecution? Think about it. CAN YOU GUESS WHAT IT IS? I'm baiting you aren't I? You want to know. Be patient. I'm helping you practice patience. We are supposed to look at the prophets. The prophets are given as an example. But we are also supposed to look at Job. Job Let's think about the patience of Job. Man, this is so good. Now to understand the lesson of Job you have to understand the structure of the book and the structure of the book of Job is a little odd. The story is found at the beginning and the end. In the middle you have these long speeches. When we open the book we read of the integrity and character of the man Job. - He was a man who feared God and turned away from evil. - He was an upright man. - He was blameless in all his ways. - He was a devout man, and he also was an extremely wealthy man. Now Satan comes and says, "I see this servant of yours, Job. I see how he's kind of your poster child. He's pretty hot stuff." Well, he's amazing for a reason. The dude's filthy rich. Job has learned not to bite the hand that feeds him. He's wise. Does Job serve you for nothing? The only reason he's serving you is because you've blessed him. In other words he doesn't love you. He loves your blessing. Take away his cash and he'll curse you. You can prove where his devotion lies by taking away his assets. So God allowed it. One day Job was standing in his home, and a messenger comes up and says, - "I was herding your donkeys and plowing with your oxen, and plunderers, those wretched Sabeans, well they came and attacked and took them all and killed the servants, and I alone have escaped to tell you. " Well there goes his food supply. - And while the words were still in his mouth a second servant comes running up, and he says, "I was with your sheep, and lightning came down from the sky and destroyed all the sheep and all the servants, and I alone have escaped to tell you." - And while the words were still in his mouth another comes and says the Chaldeans came and formed three bands and took all your camels and killed all your servants. This is basically the equivalent of saying your entire retirement portfolio has been wiped out. Your stocks gone. Your houses burned down and insurance won't pay and even your bars of gold you buried in the ground were dug up and robbed. All of his earthy capital is gone. He's financially ruined. He's now poor. That's a lot to absorb. - And while the words were still in his mouth another servant came up and said, "I was in the home where all of your grown children were feasting and drinking wine together, and a wind came out of the wilderness and the house collapsed, and all of your children are dead, all ten, seven sons and three daughters, and I alone have escaped to tell you these things." Now after the first stroke from Satan, we are told that Job howls in sorrow. He rips his clothes, shaves his head, falls to the ground in ashes and says, "Naked I came into the world, and naked I will return. The Lord gives. The Lord takes. Blessed be the name of the Lord." In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing. That is pretty stinking impressive. Now that introduction and the initial commentary has caused many people to misunderstand the book. Some people use this as the interpretive key for the book. Okay, Job was a righteous man, blameless. Satan attacked him and he didn't crack. So they read everything through that lens. True enough. Job was righteous. Job was blameless. There was not a better man on the earth. He was the top tier. He was the upper crust. But the story of the book of Job is that trials crush even the righteous. Trials wear you down. Trials cause even the finest poster children to crack. Trials are too much for all of us. All of us will crack eventually. There's a saying in the Navy Seals about fear of water. "All men panic. It's just a matter of when." And so it is with trials. All men eventually doubt God. All men eventually sin. All men crack. It's just a matter of when. Show me one who does not? At the first stroke, his self-control holds. Job hasn't cracked, yet. So the pressure turns up. There was a second stroke of Satan. Now Satan attacks his health. We're told he was afflicted with these running sores. He sat on an ash heap, and he scraped himself with pieces of pottery, scouring the pus off. It says he was afflicted with these sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. I mean that has got to just be terrible misery. I've run into poison ivy several times in my life and I just absolutely hate that stuff. It's just so itchy. The sores just run for weeks. It's so gross. From the top of the head to the sole of the foot. Head to toe. Can you imagine? Some people after funerals get consolation cards, meals cooked for them, phone calls. Job buries his 10 kids and loses his entire retirement portfolio and to boost his spirits he's given head to toe bleeding sores. Now that's bad. That's really bad. But I think the absolute worst comes next. I think what made him crack was not: - The loss of money. - Not the loss of children. - Not the loss of health. - It was the loss of being believed by his closest friends. Along come four terrible counselors. The first was Job's wife. She's a piece of work. Here Job is suffering. He's covered in sores and she looks at him and says, "Curse God and die!" Obviously this is an indication of where she's at. She's mad at God. She's lost all her kids. She's convinced God is evil. She's cursing at God. And she wants her husband to do the same. She's trying to drag him down with her. Look at his response. It's remarkable. You see he is still barely holding on, but he is still holding on by the tips of his fingers. He says, "You are talking like a foolish woman." He doesn't say, "You are a foolish woman." He says, "We've been around foolish women. You and I have both agreed what foolish behavior looks like. What you're saying feels awfully similar to that." It's a very kind response to someone who says to you, "Curse God and die!" Next up were Job's three friends: Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar. Now Job's friends come along and take a totally different approach. They say, "No, God's not the problem. God can't be the problem. God is perfect. God is holy." And that is like a breath of fresh air to Job. "Yes, I was just trying to tell my wife that. That's so comforting to hear. Thank you for saying that. I agree, God can never be wrong. He is all wise! He's always good." But what comes next is like a baseball bat to the knees. Job's friends say, "So if God is good. If God is not to blame, the only one left is you. Job, you're the problem." They say, "I've never seen an innocent man perish like you. Obviously, you're to blame. God doesn't judge the righteous." Oh man, that hurts. That's deep. He cries out. He yells. He screams. So Job's wife says: "God's the problem. God is to blame." Job's friends says: "You're the problem." And I think he cracks. Right there. And in his agony for 35 chapters he basically asks two questions: - Why didn't I die at birth? - Why is God not answering me? He says, I am an innocent sufferer. I am righteous. I have done nothing to deserve this. This is senseless suffering. Why? Why won't God talk to me? Why are the heavens as bronze? Why? In Job 23 he says, "If only I knew where to find him; if only I could go to his dwelling! I would state my case before him and fill my mouth with arguments. I would find out the reasons, and consider what he would say." You see, Job is just like us. He's asking, "Why?" And what's the answer? Silence. Be patient. He gets nothing. He gets silence as a response. Why are you allowing this to happen? It would be one thing if I could see a reason. If it was because I had sinned, that would make sense. Okay, this is punishment for my sin. Or there was some greater purpose. I could handle that. It would be one thing if I could discern a reason. This trial will accomplish this purpose. Okay, now I have a reason to suffer. But I am innocent and you are silent. Why? Why am I suffering? To be patient and not complain and live in great suffering is among the hardest places in the world to be. Wait. Trust me. Now, here's what I want to point out. By the time we get to chapter 38, Job has officially cracked. Here the most righteous man on the face of the earth has cracked under suffering. He's cracked. He's doubting God. He's angry. He's questioning God. Everyone cracks. Listen, the prophets cracked too. - You don't think Isaiah cracked when he watched innocent children being slaughtered because of the hard-heartedness of Israel? Of course he did! - You don't think Hosea cracked when he got the news that his wife was sleeping with another man? Of course he did! - You don't think Jeremiah cracked while his feet were sinking in the mud? Read Lamentations. That's a poem written by a broken heart. Of course he did! - And here is Job. Cracked! And yet James says, "Consider the prophets. Consider Job." What does that mean? The lesson to learn from the prophets and Job is NOT how NOT to crack. It's what to do when you do. Or even more accurately, the lesson is what God will do for you when you crack. We looked at Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea and asked what do you think motivated them to keep on serving God in their terrible suffering and persecution? What did they do? CAN YOU GUESS WHAT THEY DID? Here's the answer: They did nothing. God did something. In all these cases, what happens is that his beloved children crack and God shows up and puts them back together. And how he shows up to do that is shocking. The Rebuke Since we are in Job, let's just keep going here. In Job chapter 38, near the end, God shows up. Job is not doing well. And God appears in this great storm and whirlwind. Job has been asking the why question for 35+ chapters. And finally God shows up and here's how he answers. There are two things here that are just absolutely astonishing to me. First, God doesn't give Job a reason. He doesn't tell him why? We might have ideas as to what God is up to but he doesn't say one thing about it to Job. Job has been asking for chapters and chapters why, and God says not a thing about it. He gives no explanation. So first, He doesn't tell him why, but secondly, he doesn't give him any comfort. We don't read God saying, "Job, I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm so sorry that you lost your wealth and your children and I see those terrible painful sores. It must have been so terrible to go so long and not understand. I am so, so sorry." We get none of that. The absence of that language is so shocking to me that it almost makes me want to throw away the book. How cold can you be? It's like God just has ice in his veins. Are you kidding? Not only does he not give Job comfort, he goes on the offensive. He goes on the attack. Over and over God says, "Who are you? Who do you think you are?" I mean the language is so harsh, I just shrink back. God says to Job, “Surely, you know Job, Surely, you were there. You're talking like you are so old. You're talking like you are so wise.” So surely, the lightning bolts report to you. They come to you and say, "Here we are. Which way would you like us to go, Job?" They do that for me, so surely they do that for you too, since you seem to have so much knowledge of the way things ought to be? Surely you understand how to make stars. That's easy, right? Like billions of them, right? Surely, since you know so much about how your life should go and how it fits into my great plan of redemption, surely you know about these petty small little details. Right? Oh you don't know? You don't have understanding about these things? Well, then maybe you should trust me. That feels like the opposite of compassion. And we think, God, what are you doing to this broken man? We feel like God is making a mistake here. But let's not commit the same sin that Job just committed telling God how he should instruct his children. God you don't know how to discipline your children. You're too harsh. You haven't read the positive affirmation books at Barnes and Noble. What God says totally works. Look what comes out of Job's mouth. Job stammers out a first response. You know what comes out? Repentance. The great theme of the book of James. Repentance. Job was written NOT to tell you how to NOT crack. It was written to tell you what to do when you do crack. In fact, it was written to crack you and then put you back together. And how does Job help put us back together? Through the beautiful, wonderful work of repentance. What a gift. What a healing balm. To just repent. To just say, "I thought I knew what was best. What a fool, to ever question you. I repent, Lord." Listen to Job's repentance. And you think, man, okay, Job really learned his lesson. Okay God you can be done. Do you know what God says? "I'm not finished. I'll tell you when I'm done." "Job, you think I am unjust? Must I be condemned that you be justified? Is that how this should be? It doesn't make sense to me, so I should be the one who is repenting to you? Does that make sense, Job? Either I am competent to judge God or God is competent to judge me. Which is it? Job, you're suffering is 1000 times worse simply because you assume you can understand all these things. How could that be? Were you there when I invented the molecular structure of the universe? Were you there when I invented snow? Were you there when I laid the foundations of the earth? Were you there when I said to trillions of stars, come forth? Job, you weren't. How could YOU know? Who do you think you are to question me? Either I'm God or you are. Either I'm right or you are. Either I know what's going on or you do. I'm appealing to you. Think. It's not possible, Job, that you are wiser than me. You want justice, Job? You think this is unfair. Try your own hand at justice, Job. Look at every proud man and bring him low. Crush the wicked where they stand. Bury them in the dust, and then I will concede that you are in a position to be the determiner of justice." Now all of this is too much for Job. Think about the phrase, don't obscure my counsel without knowledge. When you throw up complaints against God, you want to know what that does? It obscures God's wisdom. All of a sudden something that should never be questioned, comes into question. It's like a thick fog descends and now all of a sudden that mountain range in the distance is no longer visible. I'm confused which way is north. You know this is no different than Isaiah. What happened to Isaiah? He's brought into the throne room of the Lord of Hosts. And he sees the Lord high and lifted up and the cherubim on the throne screaming Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty. The whole earth is filled with his Glory. And Isaiah smashes his face into the dirt and says, woe is me for I am ruined. I am a man of unclean lips. How dare I ever question the Lord? Who do I think I am? That turbulence inside Isaiah is put to rest when he sees God. The turbulence inside of Job is put to rest when he sees God. The anger goes away. That pride evaporates. They are changed men. They don't have all the answers, but they have what they need to be content. To trust. To not complain or grumble. The thing that so upset me is it seemed like God came and did all the wrong things to Job, and yet, look. Sometimes God asks for trust without a reason. God asks for trust without compassion. Why? Because now the trust is complete. It's the highest form. It's the most complete form of love. Is that hard? Yeah, of course, it's hard. When you have cancer or your spouse just left you or you lost everything, or whatever, we are just bawling our eyes out. We are cracked. We are laying on the ground, cracked in a million pieces. Can you listen to God in that moment? God is no more distant from you than he was from Job. God is no more distant from you than he was from Jesus when he cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Even Jesus asked the why question. Conclusion Remember, Job and the prophets are not here to tell you how not to crack. They tell you what to do when you do. And what should you do? Run to Christ. That's what Job did. At the very end of the book of Job, God commends Job. He says, "My servant Job did the right thing." Job had some pretty low days. He had some pretty ugly moments. He cursed the day he was born. He accused God of injustice. He ranted and raved. He was filled with self-pity. It was terrible. He cracked. But what did he do right? He repented of thinking he knew better than God. He went looking for the WHY. He never found it. But you want to know what he did find? He found the who. He found the who and that was enough. He was satisfied. He found someone he could trust with the why. Remember the cross. Those in Jesus day said, "THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE." Why God? Why would you allow this? God what are you doing? I'm guessing many lost their faith when they watched Jesus hang on the cross. They said, "How in the world could this be?" And yet God turned that into the greatest act of mercy in the world. Can you trust him with the unknowns in your life knowing he has done that?

What price have you put on giving your life over to God completely... What are your "But, First" requirements?CONNECT WITH US: info@thehillsnashville.comWEB: https://thehillsnashville.comSOCIAL: @thehillsnvilleGIVING: https://thehillsnashville.com/giveGROUPS REGISTRATION: https://thehillsnashville.com/groupsSupport the show

Praying for others has stopped me in my tracks more than a few times. Whether it was simply not knowing what to pray for or, if I'm honest, lacking the motivation to pray for this person or that person, I crossed them off the list with guilty dismissal and skip to the next. Hear me out. I wanted to pray. I remembered times in years past when I looked forward to my conversations with God. Times I kept on praying without a single glance at the clock. My prayer life, however, fluctuated between a willingness to face the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to throwing a pity party right alongside Jonah in the belly of a whale. Bottom line? My prayer life was in desperate need of an overhaul.

Tonight's special guests are Rachel Hawley and Eli Yoder from the Amish Rescue Mission. Rachel grew up in Southern Minnesota. The Amish community where she was raised was so sheltered that she didn't even know there were any other Amish. She still has a lot of unanswered questions. In 2020 a little 12 year old Amish girl got pregnant in Missouri, by one of her 4 brothers. Rachel said, "Okay God, I am listening. Where do I start?" Inspired by the Holy Spirit, she created a 'safe touch~not safe touch' poster for the Amish and Plain children, took advocacy training and became the Co-Founder of Amish Rescue Mission in hopes to give all God's children a voice. Eli Yoder grew up in a old order Amish community in Kenton, Ohio, where he experienced lots of physical abuse. "I wanted to run away at a very young age and I failed at every attempt of escape until 18 years when I could legally leave by law." He continues, "I thought for sure that I would go to hell but I wanted to get away from the abuse so badly that I thought hell might be just a little bit better." In 2017 he first laid his eyes on the English written Bible, and realized he'd been lied to his whole life. "After being out for 15 years I got to know many other former Amish on social media including Rachel." He'd discovered a path. "I knew that I had to be a part of helping victims who don't have a voice in these Amish communities." The Mission now has many different tools including safe houses, Dutch speaking interpreters and many other resources. The group has recently added a hotline -- 888 / 621-1985 -- and safe houses for those in need of rescue from current abusive situation.

Have you ever felt like you're not hearing from God in your business? Are you wanting to finally hear from the Holy Spirit every day? If so, then this piece of content was created just for you, because in it, we cover why you're not hearing from the Holy Spirit in your business & how to change that. To be quite honest with you, this is a question I get frequently, and I believe it needs its own episode because more people need to know and understand the answer to this question. It's time for more people to hear from God on a daily basis, don't you think? We are covering FIVE different reasons WHY you may not hearing from the Holy Spirit AND the solutions to each of those. Because y'all, there have been so many moments where I was like, “Okay, God, I know you're with me... but I don't know what to do. Please tell me what to do.” And then it just feels like there are crickets. And then I just wish Jesus was right in front of me, where I can see Him and He can tell me what to do.  I know I am not the only one who has ever felt this way and I want you to know that there have been so many moments where I've been like, “Okay God, I feel like you're trying to tell me something.. but it doesn't feel super clear, so can you just come out and just tell me?” If this is you, you are not alone. Over the last year and a half, He has really been showing me why I may not be hearing from Him and how to change that. Which is why I knew I needed to share this with you. As always, this is a juicy one. You know I don't hold back. This is a core topic we are going to be focusing on inside of the Reclaimed to Reign membership. It's been in the works for so long now. If you want details on the membership, head to www.hannahbrindley.com/membership.     CONNECT: Instagram –＞ @hannahbrindley     FREE RESOURCES: Reclaimed to Reign Facebook Community –＞ https://bit.ly/reclaimedtoreign ROOTED: 3 Day Devotional Series for Faith-Fueled Female Entrepreneurs –＞ https://bit.ly/3daydevotional  Attract Your Queendom (Learn to Attract Your Ideal Clients to You) –＞ https://bit.ly/attractyourqueendom    WORK WITH HANNAH: Reclaimed to Reign (Membership) –＞ www.hannahbrindley.com/membership For faith-fueled female entrepreneurs ready breakthrough spiritual warfare + self-sabotage in life + business Faith-Fueled Coach Academy (Group Coaching) –＞ www.hannahbrindley.com/fca For faith-fueled females who are ready to start + scale a Holy Spirit led coaching business 1:1 Coaching Options –＞ www.hannahbrindley.com/services    CONTACT: Email –＞ hannah@hannahbrindley.com

Talking about how God sees and hears both good and bad. Love you all mucho GBY!!!

Talking about how many time God's way is not our way and that is more than okay. Love you all mucho GBY!!!

Talking about the greatness of God's gifts to us and how we many times can't even fathom how perfect for us they really are. Love you all mucho GBY!!!

Talking about actually being open to and willing to having God guide your steps. Love you all mucho GBY!!!

Talking about how God's grace is a gift freely given through faith that can never be earned. Love you all mucho GBY

“God is our refuge and strength, A very present help in trouble.Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!” (Psalms‬ ‭46:1, 10‬) NKJV‬‬By a show of hands, go ahead, wherever you are reading this, how many of you have ever rushed into something too fast? Said something you regretted later? Did something you wished you hadn't? Oh my! Both my hands and my feet are up! :) Today, I just want to take a moment and be still before an awesome and mighty God! To acknowledge how good and faithful He is! Be encouraged today, He is for you, not against you and He cares about every facet of your life! Yet, how many times do we keep Him at bay until we feel we actually need Him? It looks something like this, “Okay God, I can handle all the smaller things like this, this, and this, and I will call on you if/when this, this, or this arises.”In doing so, we try and compartmentalize Him, control Him, and treat Him in essence like a spare tire or genie in a bottle.Listen, I'm not saying we need to get all hooky spooky, “Oh Lord which flavor of gum do you wantest me to have today...?” Yet, I am saying this: If we will on purpose practice putting Him first in our decision-making, our spending, our giving, our child-rearing, our work, if we will on purpose begin to allow Him to be involved in more areas of our life, we will find that the “small” things we used to keep Him out of, won't stress us out near as much!Take some time today and think about some areas in your life that perhaps you have been trying to do on your own, without truly involving Him, and begin to get scriptures for those areas. Begin to talk to the Lord about them. Watch and see those areas begin to turn around for the better! He will be exalted in the Earth! Allow Him to be exalted in your life today! Be still and know that He is God! :) In Christ, Joshua Scott ZeitzSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/joshzeitz)

Talking about putting God first, following Jesus's commandments and letting everything else fall into place. Love you all mucho and May God bless us all always!!!

God is with us in everything and always around us waiting for us to listen for his guidance. Love you all mucho and may God bless us all always!!!

God is with us always, and will get us through anything. Love you all mucho and may God bless us all always!

God wants all of you, the good, the bad and everything in between.

Never being shameful of it, and never withholding it from anyone, the word of God is our life blood. Love you all mucho and may God bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christ's precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how we are all God's children and it behooves us to imitate him and his love. Hope you all have/had a great day love you all mucho and may Abba bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how we should transform our hearts in Abba so that we may become loving transformations in him. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho mucho mucho and may God bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how our faith is an understanding and belief that God is real, and that he is a real being who cares for and loves us all always. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho mucho mucho and may God bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all always and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how God is our safe space and he is always with us. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho mucho mucho and may Abba bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how Abba is a savior to us all. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho mucho mucho and may God bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how Abba cares about everyone, always! Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho mucho mucho and may Abba bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Do you ever ask yourself why someone struggling with addiction consistently chooses pain over love? Do you have a loved one who has lost their faith in the wake of their addiction? In today's episode, our guest Anne Reynolds spends time telling us what it is like to fall away from God and into addiction. Anne tells us about her triggers, what caused her to lose her faith, and what ultimately helped her see the light. Her stories are both jaw-dropping and unbelievable – you don't want to miss them! Episode Highlights: [2:41] Anne tells us how she fell into addiction soon after her daughter was born. “I was instantly in love.”  [5:32] “I was like a wild teen again.” When her married life took a turn for the worst, Anne found herself caught up in her emotions and addictions.  [8:10] “You're there, but you're not… I took off for a long time.” Battling addiction as a young mother had some serious consequences.  [9:07] Learn about the ‘honeymoon period' that many people struggling with addiction experience. “The drug completely took over my thoughts.”  [11:12] Anne gives her thoughts on the age-old cliché that “you have to hit rock bottom before you start healing”.  [13:55] “It's when all my faith in God went down the tubes.” This traumatic event changed Anne's worldview at an early age.  [18:18] “There were some awful things happening in that house… I felt like I was stuck there.” Believing she was witnessing true evil; Anne reignited her faith in God by praying.   [20:19] After making her escape, Anne seeks help, but finds herself being shut out from those who love her. “How are we supposed to believe you?”  [25:52] “Okay God, I'm not finished yet with my rebellion, but you are real…” Anne describes when she finally felt God's love.  Episode Resources: Enneagram Strategy Call 

Talking about how God will finish what he started within you and with all things. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho and may Abba bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how the peace of and from God is different than other type of peace and is the exact type of peace we need and crave. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho and may Abba bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how God's love and law is perfect within us and for us. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho and may Abba bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

All right, we are jumping back into our series we're calling Questions. In episode 16 we talked about why bad things happen to good people. So, you may be thinking…okay, I'm starting to see this, but what about this question,  “Okay, so maybe God didn't cause it to happen, but didn't He allow it? That's exactly what we are going to talk about today. Know that, just because something happened, it doesn't automatically mean it was the will of God and just because something didn't happen, it doesn't mean it wasn't the will of God. But how do we know this? Let's think about it this way, it is the will of God that everyone get saved, right? However, there are people who die daily who have chosen to reject Jesus. God wants everyone to get saved, but because we have free wills, it's a choice we get to make.  2 Peter 3:9 talks about the return of Jesus and why He's taking so long and this is what it says, “This means that, contrary to man's perspective, the Lord is not late with His promise to return, as some measure lateness. But rather, His “delay” simply reveals His loving patience toward you, because He does not want any to perish, but all come to repentance. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 goes on to say, “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” Did you know that hell was not even created for people. Matthew 25:41 tells us It was prepared for the devil and his angels, however the devil is going to do all he can to bring as many people with him that he can, because he wants to destroy as many people's lives as possible. See, God's will is that everyone gets saved, but sometimes just because something is God's will, doesn't mean it will automatically happen and just because it's not God's will, doesn't mean it won't happen.  Like we talked about in episode 16, there is a bad devil out there, we do live in a cursed world and sometimes we the people make some pretty bad choices that can lead us and others to face horrible consequences. Now, that we have that squared away, what about this question? I have heard this one a lot…especially during really bad tragedies like 9-11. Where was God when 9-11 happened? God could have done something to stop it, Why didn't He?Listen in to today's podcast to learn more.Follow us on IG: @Uncommon_Teen_Ministrieshttps://www.UncommonTEEN.com

Talking about how God our father is our eternal shepherd and how we should trust and follow him with all our being!! Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho and may God bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

Talking about how God's will, not ours, is what we should strive for on a daily basis. Hope you all have/had a great day, love you all mucho and May God bless us all always!!! May the power of Lord Jesus Christ compel us all and in Lord Jesus Christs' precious name we pray amen amen amen!!!!!!!

In this episode, we dive into what it truly looks like when your present circumstances aren't reflective of your expectations for yourself. We examine the heartache of this reality and how it may lead one to being frustrated with God. As Damesha divulges a trial she found herself in, in 2020, she takes you on the journey of when she found herself in that exact position. This is not a place where the Lord desires for us to stay though, so how are you supposed to move forward in confidence on the path the Lord has set forth for you? We're so glad you asked!   Three ways that one can live out their God-given dreams:  Determine your desires  Some believe that the desires of our heart align with that of the Lord naturally because they are placed there by God.  Its crucial for us to make the distinction between the desires of our Spirit and the desires of our flesh.  Ex: It may be a desire of yours to be married. Your flesh may tell you to settle though with any person that seems as if they'd be a good catch. Your spirit man though will inform you to be patient and wait on who God has for you.  Take it to God in prayer  Its one thing for us to desire things and go after them in faith, but it's a different level of faith when we take these things to God in prayer. Taking our goals and dreams to God in prayer allows us to partner with God in the things He has for us.  “Okay God these are my dreams. These are the goals I have to reach. How can I partner with you on this?”  Release the expectations  The only expectation that we need to have is that God will act according to His word and His will for our lives.  Because you may have asked for something and didn't receive it, doesn't mean that God is a liar. It just simply means that whatever that thing is, wasn't apart of God's will for your life.  Rest and trust that whats for you, wont past you.  *Scripture References   "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55: 8-9 NIV  "The smallest family will become a thousand people, and the tiniest group will become a mighty nation. At the right time, I, the Lord, will make it happen.” - Isaiah 60:22 NLT  "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end." - Ecclesiastes 3:11 NIV  "And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord." - Luke 1:45 KJV.  This season of the podcast is in loving memory of Misty Roseman. Forever in our hearts. Rest well. We love you.