Podcasts about national museum

A new exhibition of Cambodian bronze sculptures from the Khmer Empire and other significant pieces opens at the Minneapolis Institute of Art on Saturday. It's the first time some of these pieces have been on display in the U.S. and Mia is the only U.S. museum that will host this exhibition. The exhibition is part of a collaboration between Mia, the National Museum of Cambodia and the Guimet, the National Museum of Asian Arts, in France. Virajita Singh, Mia's chief diversity officer, and Chhay Visoth, the director of the National Museum of Cambodia, joined MPR News host Nina Moini to share more about the exhibition's significance. Royal Bronzes: Cambodian Art of the Divine is at Mia from Oct. 25 to Jan. 18, 2026.

In this episode, Dr Sam Willis discusses the conservation of HMS Victory. As the flagship of Admiral Lord Nelson at the Battle of Trafalgar, Victory holds immense historical and cultural significance, but preserving her is proving to be a monumental challenge.Simon Williams, who leads the ship's conservation project 'HMS Victory: The Big Repair', shares the unexpected realities of working on the 260-year-old wooden vessel, including the discovery of extensive degradation. What began as a plan to replace six futtocks has grown into a massive effort to conserve 150 futtocks on the starboard side alone. With limited documentation from previous restorations, Simon explains how the team navigates risk management and decision-making in uncharted territory. Simon also discusses the delicate balance between public access and preservation, revealing how the team has had to repair structural elements while ensuring visitor safety and offering the public a rare opportunity to witness conservation in action. He reflects on the privilege of working on HMS Victory, and his fascination with the hidden stories embedded in the ship's construction and maintenance. To ensure future generations can continue this work, the team is creating a detailed historical record of the conservation process - laying the foundation for informed maintenance and repair for years to come.Carolina Sophie Henham also offers a fascinating glimpse into the daily realities of conservation work, from managing water ingress to battling persistent pests like the 'Death Watch' beetle, which is notoriously resistant to traditional treatments and particularly fond of oak, HMS Victory's primary timber. Carolina explains the difficulty of treating infestations without compromising the ship's structure, and shares insights into the team's ongoing research into sustainable pest control methods. She also discusses the innovative approaches being explored to protect this historic vessel.Tony Noon offers a behind-the-scenes tour of the conservation workshop at the National Museum of the Royal Navy in Portsmouth, revealing bays dedicated to tasks like laminating futtocks and carving ornate timbers. The space also houses materials and artefacts from other historic ships, showcasing the broader scope of maritime preservation. This episode offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at one of the most ambitious maritime conservation projects in recent years.This episode is supported by the Society for Nautical Research, the Save The Victory Fund (STVF) and the Lloyd's Register Foundation. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this commemorative episode of Mariner's Mirror Podcast, host Dr Sam Willis marks the anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar by exploring the exact location and circumstances of Admiral Lord Nelson's death aboard HMS Victory on the 21st of October 1805. Joined by Andrew Baines, Executive Director of Museum Operations at the National Museum of the Royal Navy in Portsmouth, and Dr Dan O'Brien, historian of undertakers and funerals in Eighteenth Century England, the discussion unfolds on the very decks where history was made - the quarter deck where Nelson was shot, and the orlop deck where he died.This episode offers a poignant reflection on the emotional weight that the decks of the Victory still retain. Baines observes how visitors respond to these spaces onboard the ship, noting the evolving significance and the solemn atmosphere on the flagship. The plaque on the quarter deck is polished every morning by the Royal Navy crew to commemorate Nelson's death. Once a functional part of the ship, the purpose of the orlop was forever transformed by the events of Trafalgar. O'Brien explores how this quiet, confined area has become a site of reverence - not only for Nelson's final moments but also for the countless anonymous sailors who perished. These spaces onboard HMS Victory now stand as a powerful reminder of sacrifice, legacy, and the human cost of naval warfare.Listeners are immersed in the chaos of battle on October 21, 1805, with vivid accounts of Nelson's final moments, the ship's damage, and the emotional impact on the crew. The episode also reflects on the significance of HMS Victory as a national memorial, contrasting it with Trafalgar Square and other public monuments. This is more than a retelling - it's a journey into the heart of naval heritage, recorded on the ship that still carries Nelson's legacy.This episode is supported by the Society for Nautical Research, the Save The Victory Fund (STVF) and the Lloyd's Register Foundation. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this week's show: Turkish Airlines may shift their large B737 MAX of 150 aircraft order to Airbus; DHL Airbus A300 suffers tail strike during landing at London Heathrow; and Ryanair a flight lands with 6 minutes of fuel left following a storm and subsequent diversions.    In the military: An RAF A400M conducts a historic landing on a remote arctic Island in a NATO mission; and  he National Museum of the USAF is Dayton, Ohio is to Display the MiG-25 ‘Foxbat' aircraft.    Also joining us on the show this week is Ian Parrott from Flight Zone 320 (more about Ian in a second) and we have Part 5 of the Alan Munro interview that Captain Nick did for us. Take part in our chatroom to help shape the conversation of the show. You can get in touch with us all at : WhatsApp +447446975214 Email podcast@planetalkinguk.com or comment in our chatroom on YouTube.

[Historic American Art] We go deep into the world of American illustration with today's guest, Judy Goffman Cutler, the founder and director of the National Museum of American Illustration in Newport, Rhode Island. Judy tells us about the incredible mansion that houses the museum's collection, and also goes into her own history as an art dealer before founding the museum, which is home to a world-class collection of illustration from artists such as J.C. Leyendecker, Norman Rockwell, N.C. Wyeth and many others. Today's episode is sponsored by American Fine Art Magazine. Learn more at americanfineartmagazine.com.

Catherine Coffey O'Brien and her family have donated some of her mother’s possessions to the new Changing Ireland Gallery at the National Museum of Ireland, Collins Barracks. The state sent both Catherine and her mother to institutions where they suffered abuse. She spoke to Treasa about her believe that we must acknowledge and learn from our history so that we never repeat the mistakes of the past | Kerry Today with Treasa Murphy

Evelyn O'Rourke, Arts and Media Correspondent, speaks to Lynn Scariff, Director of the National Museum of Ireland, about a new exhibiton which includes Rory Gallagher's 1961 Fender Stratocaster.

Dr. Mike Heenan is the President and CEO of St. Joseph's Health System and President of St. Joseph's Healthcare Hamilton. On the episode, Mike tells us about a time when he received one very striking complaint and how it pivoted his work and that of the organization. We also speak to Mike about his career path and how no matter who you are, you can have an impact on someone's life. Throughout his career, Mike has dedicated a lot of time to learning. He shares with us his views on how it's an important balance for all of us to keep in view. While covering some heavy but important topics, Mike also touches on how his family grounds him. And of course, how he's a big Blue Jays fan! Quotables: “I think when you go through life and you say what's my value proposition, it allows you to focus on what gets you up every day and it doesn't look like a transactional job, but a career calling.” – M. Heenan “It's these real-life experiences that can stop you as a leader… but it's these humanistic ethical issues that really make a leader pivot and say enough is enough, we really need to deal with this.” – M. Heenan “This happens in coffee shops, and it happens in hospitals. And so, I'm not going to change society overnight in one healthcare organization, but I can contribute to us fixing it one incident at a time, or one hospital at a time.” – M. Heenan “Even though we have signs in our hallways across all our hospitals in this country that say there's zero tolerance, the fact of the matter is, we do tolerate some of it.”  – M. Heenan “Someone like the IHI or HIROC who sees all these different organizations can bring this very diverse perspective to a table and apply it depending on the environment.” – M. Heenan “I appreciate all of HIROC's support. Most people see HIROC perhaps from an insurance reciprocal perspective but the value-added services and the partnership it provides to the whole continuum of providing quality care…” – M. Heenan Mentioned in this Episode: -              St. Joseph's Healthcare Hamilton -              St. Joseph's Health System -              Catherine Gaulton -              HIROC -              Dr. Kevin Smith -              University Health Network -              National Museum of African American History -              Institute for Healthcare Improvement -              Longwoods -              London Health Sciences Centre -              McMaster University -              Ontario Hospital Association -              Toronto Blue Jays Access More Interviews with Healthcare Leaders at HIROC.com/podcast Follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram, and listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your favourite podcasts. Email us at Communications@HIROC.com.

BIO:The Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a poet, practical theologian, and itinerant prophet for a coming undivided “kin-dom.” She is the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, named for her work and witness and an associate editor at Good Faith Media. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church. Her writings have been featured in Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Free Black Thought, Word & Way, Plough, Baptist News Global and Nurturing Faith Journal among others. She is a frequent guest on podcasts and has her own. The Raceless Gospel podcast takes her listeners to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion, and politics. Starlette is also an activist who bears witness against police brutality and most recently the cultural erasure of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C. It was erected in memory of the 2020 protests that brought the world together through this shared declaration of somebodiness after the gruesome murder of George Perry Floyd, Jr. Her act of resistance caught the attention of the Associated Press. An image of her reclaiming the rubble went viral and in May, she was featured in a CNN article.Starlette has spoken before the World Council of Churches North America and the United Methodist Church's Council of Bishops on the color- coded caste system of race and its abolition. She has also authored and presented papers to the members of the Baptist World Alliance in Zurich, Switzerland and Nassau, Bahamas to this end. She has cast a vision for the future of religion at the National Museum of African American History and Culture's “Forward Conference: Religions Envisioning Change.” Her paper was titled “Press Forward: A Raceless Gospel for Ex- Colored People Who Have Lost Faith in White Supremacy.” She has lectured at The Queen's Foundation in Birmingham, U.K. on a baptismal pedagogy for antiracist theological education, leadership and ministries. Starlette's research interests have been supported by the Louisville Institute and the Lilly Foundation. Examining the work of the Reverend Dr. Clarence Jordan, whose farm turned “demonstration plot” in Americus, Georgia refused to agree to the social arrangements of segregation because of his Christian convictions, Starlette now takes this dirt to the church. Her thesis is titled, “Afraid of Koinonia: How life on this farm reveals the fear of Christian community.” A full circle moment, she was recently invited to write the introduction to Jordan's newest collection of writings, The Inconvenient Gospel: A Southern Prophet Tackles War, Wealth, Race and Religion.Starlette is a member of the Christian Community Development Association, the Peace & Justice Studies Association, and the Koinonia Advisory Council. A womanist in ministry, she has served as a pastor as well as a denominational leader. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette holds degrees from Buffalo State College, Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School and Wesley Theological Seminary. Last year, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Sacred Theology for her work and witness as a public theologian from Wayland Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of "Take Me to the Water": The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church and a contributing author of the book Faith Forward: A Dialogue on Children, Youth & a New Kind of Christianity.  JennyI was just saying that I've been thinking a lot about the distinction between Christianity and Christian supremacy and Christian nationalism, and I have been researching Christian nationalism for probably about five or six years now. And one of my introductions to the concept of it was a book that's based on a documentary that's based on a book called Constantine Sword. And it talked about how prior to Constantine, Christians had the image of fish and life and fertility, and that is what they lived by. And then Constantine supposedly had this vision of a cross and it said, with this sign, you shall reign. And he married the church and the state. And ever since then, there's been this snowball effect of Christian empire through the Crusades, through manifest destiny, through all of these things that we're seeing play out in the United States now that aren't new. But I think there's something new about how it's playing out right now.Danielle (02:15):I was thinking about the doctrine of discovery and how that was the creation of that legal framework and ideology to justify the seizure of indigenous lands and the subjugation of indigenous peoples. And just how part of that doctrine you have to necessarily make the quote, humans that exist there, you have to make them vacant. Or even though they're a body, you have to see them as internally maybe empty or lacking or less. And that really becomes this frame. Well, a repeated frame.Jenny (03:08):Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like that's so much source to that when that dehumanization is ordained by God. If God is saying these people who we're not even going to look at as people, we're going to look at as objects, how do we get out of that?Danielle (03:39):I don't know. Well, definitely still in it. You can hear folks like Charlie Kirk talk about it and unabashedly, unashamedly turning point USA talk about doctrine of discovery brings me currently to these fishing boats that have been jetting around Venezuela. And regardless of what they're doing, the idea that you could just kill them regardless of international law, regardless of the United States law, which supposedly we have the right to a process, the right to due process, the right to show up in a court and we're presumed innocent. But this doctrine applies to people manifest destiny, this doctrine of discovery. It applies to others that we don't see as human and therefore can snuff out life. And I think now they're saying on that first boat, I think they've blown up four boats total. And on the first boat, one of the ladies is speaking out, saying they were out fishing and the size of the boat. I think that's where you get into reality. The size of the boat doesn't indicate a large drug seizure anyway. It's outside reality. And again, what do you do if they're smuggling humans? Did you just destroy all that human life? Or maybe they're just fishing. So I guess that doctrine and that destiny, it covers all of these immoral acts, it kind of washes them clean. And I guess that talking about Constantine, it feels like the empire needed a way to do that, to absolve themselves.Danielle (05:40):I know it gives me both comfort and makes me feel depressed when I think about people in 300 ad being, they're freaking throwing people into the lion's den again and people are cheering. And I have to believe that there were humans at that time that saw the barbarism for what it was. And that gives me hope that there have always been a few people in a system of tyranny and oppression that are like, what the heck is going on? And it makes me feel like, ugh. When does that get to be more than just the few people in a society kind of society? Or what does a society need to not need such violence? Because I think it's so baked in now to these white and Christian supremacy, and I don't know, in my mind, I don't think I can separate white supremacy from Christian supremacy because even before White was used as a legal term to own people and be able to vote, the legal term was Christian. And then when enslaved folks started converting to Christianity, they pivoted and said, well, no, not all Christians. It has to be white Christians. And so I think white supremacy was birthed out of a long history of Christian supremacy.Danielle (07:21):Yeah, it's weird. I remember growing up, and maybe you had this experience too, I remember when Schindler's List hit the theaters and you were probably too young, but Schindler's listed the theaters, and I remember sitting in a living room and having to convince my parents of why I wanted to see it. And I think I was 16, I don't remember. I was young and it was rated R and of course that was against our values to see rated R movies. But I really wanted to see this movie. And I talked and talked and talked and got to see this movie if anybody's watched Schindler's List, it's a story of a man who is out to make money, sees this opportunity to get free labor basically as part of the Nazi regime. And so he starts making trades to access free labor, meanwhile, still has women, enjoys a fine life, goes to church, has a pseudo faith, and as time goes along, I'm shortening the story, but he gets this accountant who he discovers he loves because his accountant makes him rich. He makes him rich off the labor. But the accountant is thinking, how do I save more lives and get them into this business with Schindler? Well, eventually they get captured, they get found out. All these things happen, right, that we know. And it becomes clear to Schindler that they're exterminating, they're wiping out an entire population.(09:01):I guess I come to that and just think about, as a young child, I remember watching that thinking, there's no way this would ever happen again because there's film, there's documentation. At the time, there were people alive from the Great war, the greatest generation like my grandfather who fought in World War ii. There were other people, we had the live stories. But now just a decade, 12, 13 years removed, it hasn't actually been that long. And the memory of watching a movie like Schindler's List, the impact of seeing what it costs a soul to take the life of other souls like that, that feels so far removed now. And that's what the malaise of the doctrine of Discovery and manifest destiny, I think have been doing since Constantine and Christianity. They've been able to wipe the memory, the historical memory of the evil done with their blessing.(10:06):And I feel like even this huge thing like the Holocaust, the memories being wiped, you can almost feel it. And in fact, people are saying, I don't know if they actually did that. I don't know if they killed all these Jewish peoples. Now you hear more denial even of the Holocaust now that those storytellers aren't passed on to the next life. So I think we are watching in real time how Christianity and Constantine were able to just wipe use empire to wipe the memory of the people so they can continue to gain riches or continue to commit atrocities without impunity just at any level. I guess that's what comes to mind.Jenny (10:55):Yeah, it makes me think of, I saw this video yesterday and I can't remember what representative it was in a hearing and she had written down a long speech or something that she was going to give, and then she heard during the trial the case what was happening was someone shared that there have been children whose parents have been abducted and disappeared because the children were asked at school, are your parents undocumented? And she said, I can't share what I had prepared because I'm caught with that because my grandfather was killed in the Holocaust because his children were asked at school, are your parents Jewish?(11:53):And my aunt took that guilt with her to her grave. And the amount of intergenerational transgenerational trauma that is happening right now, that never again is now what we are doing to families, what we are doing to people, what we are doing to children, the atrocities that are taking place in our country. Yeah, it's here. And I think it's that malaise has come over not only the past, but even current. I think people don't even know how to sit with the reality of the horror of what's happening. And so they just dissociate and they just check out and they don't engage the substance of what's happening.Danielle (13:08):Yeah. I tell a friend sometimes when I talk to her, I just say, I need you to tap in. Can you just tap in? Can you just carry the conversation or can you just understand? And I don't mean understand, believe a story. I mean feel the story. It's one thing to say the words, but it's another thing to feel them. And I think Constantine is a brilliant guy. He took a peaceful religion. He took a peaceful faith practice, people that literally the prior guy was throwing to the lions for sport. He took a people that had been mocked, a religious group that had been mocked, and he elevated them and then reunified them with that sword that you're talking about. And so what did those Christians have to give up then to marry themselves to empire? I don't know, but it seems like they kind of effed us over for eternity, right?Jenny (14:12):Yeah. Well, and I think that that's part of it. I think part of the malaise is the infatuation with eternity and with heaven. And I know for myself, when I was a missionary for many years, I didn't care about my body because this body, this light and momentary suffering paled in comparison to what was awaiting me. And so no matter what happened, it was a means to an end to spend eternity with Jesus. And so I think of empathy as us being able to feel something of ourselves in someone else. If I don't have grief and joy and sorrow and value for this body, I'm certainly not going to have it for other bodies. And I think the disembodiment of white Christian supremacy is what enables bodies to just tolerate and not consider the brutality of what we're seeing in the United States. What we're seeing in Congo, what we're seeing in Palestine, what we're seeing everywhere is still this sense of, oh, the ends are going to justify the means we're all going to, at least I'll be in heaven and everyone else can kind of figure out what they're going to do.I don't know, man. Yeah, maybe. I guess when you think about Christian nationalism versus maybe a more authentic faith, what separates them for youAbiding by the example that Jesus gave or not. I mean, Jesus was killed by the state because he had some very unpopular things to say about the state and the way in which he lived was very much like, how do I see those who are most oppressed and align myself with them? Whereas Christian nationalism is how do I see those who have the most power and align myselves with them?(16:48):And I think it is a question of alignment and orientation. And at the end of the day, who am I going to stand with even knowing and probably knowing that that may be to the detriment of my own body, but I do that not out of a sense of martyrdom, but out of a sense of integrity. I refuse. I think I really believe Jesus' words when he said, what good is it for a man to gain the world and lose his soul? And at the end of the day, what I'm fighting for is my own soul, and I don't want to give that up.Danielle (17:31):Hey, starlet, we're on to not giving up our souls to power.The Reverend Dr.Rev. Dr. Starlette (17:47):I'm sorry I'm jumping from one call to the next. I do apologize for my tardiness now, where were we?Danielle (17:53):We got on the subject of Constantine and how he married the sword with Christianity when it had been fish and fertile ground and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, that's where we started. Yeah, that's where we started.Starlette (18:12):I'm going to get in where I fit in. Y'all keep going.Danielle (18:14):You get in. Yeah, you get in. I guess Jenny, for me and for you, starlet, the deep erasure of any sort of resemblance of I have to look back and I have to be willing to interrogate, I think, which is what a lot of people don't want to do. I grew up in a really conservative evangelical family and a household, and I have to interrogate, well, one, why did my mom get into that? Because Mexican, and number two, I watched so slowly as there was a celebration. I think it was after Bill Clinton had this Monica Lewinsky thing and all of this stuff happened. My Latino relatives were like, wait a minute, we don't like that. We don't like that. That doesn't match our values. And I remember this celebration of maybe now they're going to become Christians. I remember thinking that as a child, because for them to be a Democrat in my household and for them to hold different values around social issues meant that they weren't necessarily saved in my house and my way because they hadn't fully bought into empire in the way I know Jenny muted herself.(19:31):They hadn't fully bought into empire. And I slowly watched those family members in California kind of give way to conservatism the things that beckoned it. And honestly, a lot of it was married to religion and to what is going on today and not standing up for justice, not standing up for civil rights. I watched the movement go over, and it feels like at the expense of the memory of my grandfather and my great-grandfather who despised religion in some ways, my grandfather did not like going to church because he thought people were fake. He didn't believe them, and he didn't see what church had to do with being saved anyway. And so I think about him a lot and I think, oh, I got to hold onto that a little bit in the face of empire. But yeah, my mind just went off on that rabbit trail.Starlette (20:38):Oh, it's quite all right. My grandfather had similar convictions. My grandmother took the children to church with her and he stayed back. And after a while, the children were to decide that they didn't want to go anymore. And I remember him saying, that's enough. That's enough. You've done enough. They've heard enough. Don't make them go. But I think he drew some of the same conclusions, and I hold those as well, but I didn't grow up in a household where politics was even discussed. Folks were rapture ready, as they say, because they were kingdom minded is what they say now. And so there was no discussion of what was going on on the ground. They were really out of touch with, I'm sending right now. They were out of touch with reality. I have on pants, I have on full makeup, I have on earrings. I'm not dressed modestly in any way, shape, fashion or form.(21:23):It was a very externalized, visible, able to be observed kind of spirituality. And so I enter the spaces back at home and it's like going into a different world. I had to step back a bit and oftentimes I just don't say anything. I just let the room have it because you can't, in my experience, you can't talk 'em out of it. They have this future orientation where they live with their feet off the ground because Jesus is just around the corner. He's right in that next cloud. He's coming, and so none of this matters. And so that affected their political participation and discussion. There was certainly very minor activism, so I wasn't prepared by family members to show up in the streets like I do now. I feel sincerely called. I feel like it's a work of the spirit that I know where to put my feet at all, but I certainly resonate with what you would call a rant that led you down to a rabbit hole because it led me to a story about my grandfather, so I thank you for that. They were both right by the way,Danielle (22:23):I think so he had it right. He would sit in the very back of church sometimes to please my grandmother and to please my family, and he didn't have a cell phone, but he would sit there and go to sleep. He would take a nap. And I have to think of that now as resistance. And as a kid I was like, why does he do that? But his body didn't want to take it in.Starlette (22:47):That's rest as resistance from the Nat Bishop, Trisha Hersey, rest as act of defiance, rest as reparations and taking back my time that you're stealing from me by having me sit in the service. I see that.Danielle (23:02):I mean, Jenny, it seems like Constantine, he knew what to do. He gets Christians on his side, they knew how to gather organically. He then gets this mass megaphone for whatever he wants, right?Jenny (23:21):Yeah. I think about Adrian Marie Brown talks a lot about fractals and how what happens on a smaller scale is going to be replicated on larger scales. And so even though there's some sense of disjoint with denominations, I think generally in the United States, there is some common threads of that manifest destiny that have still found its way into these places of congregating. And so you're having these training wheels really even within to break it down into the nuclear family that James Dobson wanted everyone to focus on was a very, very narrow white, patriarchal Christian family. And so if you rehearse this on these smaller scales, then you can rehearse it in your community, then you can rehearse it, and it just bubbles and bubbles and balloons out into what we're seeing happen, I think.Yeah, the nuclear family and then the youth movements, let us, give us your youth, give us your kids. Send us your kids and your youth to our camps.Jenny (24:46):Great. I grew up in Colorado and I was probably 10 or 11 when the Columbine shooting happened, and I remember that very viscerally. And the immediate conversation was not how do we protect kids in school? It was glorifying this one girl that maybe or maybe did not say yes when the shooters asked, do you still believe in God? And within a year her mom published a book about it. And that was the thing was let's use this to glorify martyrdom. And I think it is different. These were victims in school and I think any victim of the shooting is horrifying. And I think we're seeing a similar level of that martyrdom frenzy with Charlie Kirk right now. And what we're not talking about is how do we create a safer society? What we're talking about, I'm saying, but I dunno. What I'm hearing of the white Christian communities is how are we glorifying Charlie Kirk as a martyr and what power that wields when we have someone that we can call a martyr?Starlette (26:27):No, I just got triggered as soon as you said his name.(26:31):Just now. I think grieving a white supremacist is terrifying. Normalizing racist rhetoric is horrifying. And so I look online in disbelief. I unfollowed and blocked hundreds of people on social media based on their comments about what I didn't agree with. Everything he said, got a lot of that. I'm just not interested. I think they needed a martyr for the race war that they're amping for, and I would like to be delivered from the delusion that is white body supremacy. It is all exhausting. I don't want to be a part of the racial imagination that he represents. It is not a new narrative. We are not better for it. And he's not a better person because he's died. The great Biggie Smalls has a song that says you're nobody until somebody kills you. And I think it's appropriate. Most people did not know who he was. He was a podcaster. I'm also looking kind of cross-eyed at his wife because that's not, I served as a pastor for more than a decade. This is not an expression of grief. There's nothing like anything I've seen for someone who was assassinated, which I disagree with.(28:00):I've just not seen widows take the helm of organizations and given passion speeches and make veil threats to audiences days before the, as we would say in my community, before the body has cooled before there is a funeral that you'll go down and take pictures. That could be arguably photo ops. It's all very disturbing to me. This is a different measure of grief. I wrote about it. I don't know what, I've never heard of a sixth stage of grief that includes fighting. We're not fighting over anybody's dead body. We're not even supposed to do it with Jesus. And so I just find it all strange that before the man is buried, you've already concocted a story wherein opposing forces are at each other's throats. And it's all this intergalactic battle between good and bad and wrong, up and down, white and black. It's too much.(28:51):I think white body supremacy has gotten out of hand and it's incredibly theatrical. And for persons who have pulled back from who've decent whiteness, who've de racialize themselves, it's foolishness. Just nobody wants to be involved in this. It's a waste of time. White body supremacy and racism are wastes of time. Trying to prove that I'm a human being or you're looking right at is a waste of time. And people just want to do other things, which is why African-Americans have decided to go to sleep, to take a break. We're not getting ready to spin our wheels again, to defend our humanity, to march for rights that are innate, to demand a dignity that comes with being human. It's just asinine.(29:40):I think you would be giving more credence to the statements themselves by responding. And so I'd rather save my breath and do my makeup instead because trying to defend the fact that I'm a glorious human being made in the image of God is a waste of time. Look at me. My face is beat. It testifies for me. Who are you? Just tell me that I don't look good and that God didn't touch me. I'm with the finger of love as the people say, do you see this beat? Let me fall back. So you done got me started and I blame you. It's your fault for the question. So no, that's my response to things like that. African-American people have to insulate themselves with their senses of ness because he didn't have a kind word to say about African-American people, whether a African-American pilot who is racialized as black or an African-American woman calling us ignorance saying, we're incompetence. If there's no way we could have had these positions, when African-American women are the most agreed, we're the most educated, how dare you? And you think, I'm going to prove that I'm going to point to degrees. No, I'll just keep talking. It will make itself obvious and evident.(30:45):Is there a question in that? Just let's get out of that. It triggers me so bad. Like, oh, that he gets a holiday and it took, how many years did it take for Martin Luther King Junior to get a holiday? Oh, okay. So that's what I mean. The absurdity of it all. You're naming streets after him hasn't been dead a year. You have children coloring in sheets, doing reports on him. Hasn't been a few months yet. We couldn't do that for Martin Luther King. We couldn't do that for Rosa Parks. We couldn't do that for any other leader, this one in particular, and right now, find that to beI just think it just takes a whole lot of delusion and pride to keep puffing yourself up and saying, you're better than other people. Shut up, pipe down. Or to assume that everybody wants to look like you or wants to be racialized as white. No, I'm very cool in who I'm, I don't want to change as the people say in every lifetime, and they use these racialized terms, and so I'll use them and every lifetime I want to come back as black. I don't apologize for my existence. I love it here. I don't want to be racialized as white. I'm cool. That's the delusion for me that you think everyone wants to look like. You think I would trade.(32:13):You think I would trade for that, and it looks great on you. I love what it's doing for you. But as for me in my house, we believe in melanin and we keep it real cute over here. I just don't have time. I think African-Americans minoritized and otherwise, communities should invest their time in each other and in ourselves as opposed to wasting our breath, debating people. We can't debate white supremacists. Anyway, I think I've talked about that the arguments are not rooted in reason. It's rooted in your dehumanization and equating you with three fifths of a human being who's in charge of measurements, the demonizing of whiteness. It's deeply problematic for me because it puts them in a space of creator. How can you say how much of a human being that's someone? This stuff is absurd. And so I've refuse to waste my breath, waste my life arguing with somebody who doesn't have the power, the authority.(33:05):You don't have the eyesight to tell me if I'm human or not. This is stupid. We're going to do our work and part of our work is going to sleep. We're taking naps, we're taking breaks, we're putting our feet up. I'm going to take a nap after this conversation. We're giving ourselves a break. We're hitting the snooze button while staying woke. There's a play there. But I think it's important that people who are attacked by white body supremacy, not give it their energy. Don't feed into the madness. Don't feed into the machine because it'll eat you alive. And I didn't get dressed for that. I didn't get on this call. Look at how I look for that. So that's what that brings up. Okay. It brings up the violence of white body supremacy, the absurdity of supremacy at all. The delusion of the racial imagination, reading a 17th century creation onto a 21st century. It's just all absurd to me that anyone would continue to walk around and say, I'm better than you. I'm better than you. And I'll prove it by killing you, lynching you, raping your people, stealing your people, enslaving your people. Oh, aren't you great? That's pretty great,Jenny (34:30):I think. Yeah, I think it is. I had a therapist once tell me, it's like you've had the opposite of a psychotic break because when that is your world and that's all, it's so easy to justify and it makes sense. And then as soon as you step out of it, you're like, what the what? And then it makes it that much harder to understand. And this is my own, we talked about this last week, but processing what is my own path in this of liberation and how do I engage people who are still in that world, who are still related to me, who are, and in a way that isn't exhausting for I'm okay being exhausted if it's going to actually bear something, if it's just me spinning my wheels, I don't actually see value in that. And for me, what began to put cracks in that was people challenging my sense of superiority and my sense of knowing what they should do with their bodies. Because essentially, I think a lot of how I grew up was similar maybe and different from how you were sharing Danielle, where it was like always vote Republican because they're going to be against abortion and they're going to be against gay marriage. And those were the two in my world that were the things that I was supposed to vote for no matter what. And now just seeing how far that no matter what is willing to go is really terrifying.Danielle (36:25):Yeah, I agree. Jenny. I mean, again, I keep talking about him, but he's so important to me. The idea that my great grandfather to escape religious oppression would literally walk 1,950 miles and would leave an oppressive system just in an attempt to get away. That walk has to mean something to me today. You can't forget. All of my family has to remember that he did a walk like that. How many of us have walked that far? I mean, I haven't ever walked that far in just one instance to escape something. And he was poor because he couldn't even pay for his mom's burial at the Catholic church. So he said, let me get out of this. And then of course he landed with the Methodist and he was back in the fire again. But I come back to him, and that's what people will do to get out of religious oppression. They will give it an effort and when they can. And so I think it's important to remember those stories. I'm off on my tangent again now because it feels so important. It's a good one.Starlette (37:42):I think it's important to highlight the walking away from, to putting one foot in front of the other, praying with your feet(37:51):That it's its own. You answer your own prayer by getting away from it. It is to say that he was done with it, and if no one else was going to move, he was going to move himself that he didn't wait for the change in the institution. Let's just change directions and get away from it. And I hate to even imagine what he was faced with and that he had to make that decision. And what propelled him to walk that long with that kind of energy to keep momentum and to create that amount of distance. So for me, it's very telling. I ran away at 12. I had had it, so I get it. This is the last time you're going to hit me.Not going to beat me out of my sleep. I knew that at 12. This is no place for me. So I admire people who get up in the dead of night, get up without a warning, make it up in their mind and said, that's the last time, or This is not what I'm going to do. This is not the way that I want to be, and I'm leaving. I admire him. Sounds like a hero. I think we should have a holiday.Danielle (38:44):And then imagine telling that. Then you're going to tell me that people like my grandfather are just in it. This is where it leaves reality for me and leaves Christianity that he's just in it to steal someone's job. This man worked the lemon fields and then as a side job in his retired years, moved up to Sacramento, took in people off death row at Folsom Prison, took 'em to his home and nursed them until they passed. So this is the kind a person that will walk 1,950 miles. They'll do a lot of good in the world, and we're telling people that they can't come here. That's the kind of people that are walking here. That's the kind of people that are coming here. They're coming here to do whatever they can. And then they're nurturing families. They're actually living out in their families what supposed Christians are saying they want to be. Because people in these two parent households and these white families, they're actually raising the kind of people that will shoot Charlie Kirk. It's not people like my grandfather that walked almost 2000 miles to form a better life and take care of people out of prisons. Those aren't the people forming children that are, you'reStarlette (40:02):Going to email for that. The deacons will you in the parking lot for that one. You you're going to get a nasty tweet for that one. Somebody's going to jump off in the comments and straighten you out at,Danielle (40:17):I can't help it. It's true. That's the reality. Someone that will put their feet and their faith to that kind of practice is not traveling just so they can assault someone or rob someone. I mean, yes, there are people that have done that, but there's so much intentionality about moving so far. It does not carry the weight of, can you imagine? Let me walk 2000 miles to Rob my neighbor. That doesn't make any sense.Starlette (40:46):Sounds like it's own kind of pilgrimage.Jenny (40:59):I have so many thoughts, but I think whiteness has just done such a number on people. And I'm hearing each of you and I'm thinking, I don't know that I could tell one story from any of my grandparents. I think that that is part of whiteness. And it's not that I didn't know them, but it's that the ways in which Transgenerational family lines are passed down are executed for people in considered white bodies where it's like my grandmother, I guess I can't tell some stories, but she went to Polish school and in the States and was part of a Polish community. And then very quickly on polls were grafted into whiteness so that they could partake in the GI Bill. And so that Polish heritage was then lost. And that was not that long ago, but it was a severing that happened. And some of my ancestors from England, that severing happened a long time ago where it's like, we are not going to tell the stories of our ancestors because that would actually reveal that this whole white thing is made up. And we actually have so much more to us than that. And so I feel like the social privilege that has come from that, but also the visceral grief of how I would want to know those stories of my ancestors that aren't there. Because in part of the way that whiteness operates,Starlette (42:59):I'm glad you told that story. Diane de Prima, she tells about that, about her parents giving up their Italian ness, giving up their heritage and being Italian at home and being white in public. So not changing their name, shortening their name, losing their accent, or dropping the accent. I'm glad that you said that. I think that's important. But like you said though, if you tell those stories and it shakes up the power dynamic for whiteness, it's like, oh, but there are books how the Irish became White, the Making of Whiteness working for Whiteness, read all the books by David Broer on Whiteness Studies. But I'm glad that you told us. I think it's important, and I love that you named it as a severing. Why did you choose that word in particular?Jenny (43:55):I had the privilege a few years ago of going to Poland and doing an ancestry trip. And weeks before I went, an extended cousin in the States had gotten connected with our fifth cousin in Poland. We share the fifth grandparents. And this cousin of mine took us around to the church where my fifth great grandparents got married and these just very visceral places. And I had never felt the land that my ancestors know in my body. And there was something really, really powerful of that. And so I think of severing as I have been cut off from that lineage and that heritage because of whiteness. And I feel very, very grateful for the ways in which that is beginning to heal and beginning to mend. And we can tell truer stories of our ancestry and where we come from and the practices of our people. And I think it is important to acknowledge the cost and the privilege that has come from that severing in order to get a job that was not reserved for people that weren't white. My family decided, okay, well we'll just play the part. We will take on that role of whiteness because that will then give us that class privilege and that socioeconomic privilege that reveals how much of a construct whitenessStarlette (45:50):A racial contract is what Charles W. Mills calls it, that there's a deal made in a back room somewhere that you'll trade your sense of self for another. And so that it doesn't, it just unravels all the ways in which white supremacy, white body supremacy, pos itself, oh, that we're better. I think people don't say anything because it unravels those lies, those tongue twisters that persons have spun over the centuries, that it's really just an agreement that we've decided that we'll make ourselves the majority so that we can bully everybody else. And nobody wants to be called that. Nobody wants to be labeled greedy. I'm just trying to provide for my family, but at what expense? At who else's expense. But I like to live in this neighborhood and I don't want to be stopped by police. But you're willing to sacrifice other people. And I think that's why it becomes problematic and troublesome because persons have to look at themselves.(46:41):White body supremacy doesn't offer that reflection. If it did, persons would see how monstrous it is that under the belly of the beast, seeing the underside of that would be my community. We know what it costs for other people to feel really, really important because that's what whiteness demands. In order to look down your nose on somebody, you got to stand on somebody's back. Meanwhile, our communities are teaching each other to stand. We stand on the shoulders of giants. It's very communal. It's a shared identity and way of being. Whereas whiteness demands allegiance by way of violence, violent taking and grabbing it is quite the undoing. We have a lot of work to do. But I am proud of you for telling that story.Danielle (47:30):I wanted to read this quote by Gloria, I don't know if you know her. Do you know her? She writes, the struggle is inner Chicano, Indio, American Indian, Molo, Mexicano, immigrant, Latino, Anglo and power working class Anglo black, Asian. Our psyches resemble the border towns and are populated by the same people. The struggle has always been inner and has played out in outer terrains. Awareness of our situation must come before interchanges and which in turn come before changes in society. Nothing happens in the real world unless it first happens in the images in our heads.(48:16):So Jenny, when you're talking, you had some image in your head before you went to Poland, before it became reality. You had some, it didn't start with just knowing your cousin or whatever it happened before that. Or for me being confronted and having to confront things with my husband about ways we've been complicit or engaged in almost like the word comes gerrymandering our own future. That's kind of how it felt sometimes Luis and I and how to become aware of that and take away those scales off our own eyes and then just sit in the reality, oh no, we're really here and this is where we're really at. And so where are we going to go from here? And starlet, you've talked from your own position. That's just what comes to mind. It's something that happens inside. I mean, she talks about head, I think more in feelings in my chest. That's where it happens for me. But yeah, that's what comes to mind.Starlette (49:48):With. I feel like crying because of what we've done to our bodies and the bodies of other people. And we still can't see ourselves not as fully belonging to each other, not as beloved, not as holy.It's deeply saddening that for all the time that we have here together for all the time that we'll share with each other, we'll spend much of it not seeing each other at all.Danielle (50:57):My mind's going back to, I think I might've shared this right before you joined Starla, where it was like, I really believe the words of Jesus that says, what good is it for someone to gain the world and lose their soul? And that's what I hear. And what I feel is this soul loss. And I don't know how to convince other people. And I don't know if that's the point that their soul is worth it, but I think I've, not that I do it perfectly, but I think I've gotten to the place where I'm like, I believe my interiority is worth more than what it would be traded in for.(51:45):And I think that will be a lifelong journey of trying to figure out how to wrestle with a system. I will always be implicated in because I am talking to you on a device that was made from cobalt, from Congo and wearing clothes that were made in other countries. And there's no way I can make any decision other than to just off myself immediately. And I'm not saying I'm doing that, but I'm saying the part of the wrestle is that this is, everything is unresolved. And how do I, like what you said, Danielle, what did you say? Can you tune into this conversation?Jenny (52:45):Yeah. And how do I keep tapping in even when it means engaging my own implication in this violence? It's easier to be like, oh, those people over there that are doing those things. And it's like, wait, now how do I stay situated and how I'm continually perpetuating it as well, and how do I try to figure out how to untangle myself in that? And I think that will be always I,Danielle (53:29):He says, the US Mexican border as like an open wound where the third world grates against the first and bleeds. And before a scab forms it hemorrhages again, the lifeblood of two worlds. Two worlds merging to form a third country, a border culture. Borders are set up to define the places that are safe and unsafe to distinguish us from them. A border is a dividing line, a narrow strip along a steep edge. A borderland is a vague and undetermined place created by the emotional residue of an unnatural boundary is it is in a constant state of transition. They're prohibited and forbidden arts inhabitants. And I think that as a Latina that really describes and mixed with who my father is and that side that I feel like I live like the border in me, it feels like it grates against me. So I hear you, Jenny, and I feel very like all the resonance, and I hear you star led, and I feel a lot of resonance there too. But to deny either thing would make me less human because I am human with both of those parts of me.(54:45):But also to engage them brings a lot of grief for both parts of me. And how does that mix together? It does feel like it's in a constant state of transition. And that's partly why Latinos, I think particularly Latino men bought into this lie of power and played along. And now they're getting shown that no, that part of you that's European, that part never counted at all. And so there is no way to buy into that racialized system. There's no way to put a down payment in and come out on the other side as human. As soon as we buy into it, we're less human. Yeah. Oh, Jenny has to go in a minute. Me too. But starlet, you're welcome to join us any Thursday. Okay.Speaker 1 (55:51):Afternoon. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Episode No. 727 is a holiday weekend clips episode featuring artist Andrea Carlson. The Denver Art Museum just opened "Andrea Carlson: A Constant Sky," a mid-career survey. The exhibition spotlights how Carlson, who is Ojibwe and of European settler descent, creates works that challenge the colonial narratives presented by modern artists, museum collections, and cannibal genre horror films, all in ways that challenge and depart from the US landscape tradition. The exhibition was curated by Dakota Hoska, and will remain on view through February 16, 2026. The exhibition catalogue was published by Scala, Amazon and Bookshop offer it for $30-35. Museums that have featured solo exhibitions of Carlson's work include the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian, New York, and the Minneapolis Institute of Art. Her work is in the collection of museums such as the National Gallery of Canada, Ottawa, the Walker Art Center, Minneapolis, the Whitney Museum of American Art, New York, and the Denver Art Museum. She is also the co-founder of the Center for Native Futures in Chicago. This program was taped on the occasion of Carlson's 2024 solo exhibition at the MCA Chicago. For images, please see Episode No. 677. Instagram: Andrea Carlson, Tyler Green.

The US State Department has changed their safety ratings for Mexico. The only places in the country where, according to the US State Department, you can just go as freely as you might to, say, Washington, DC, would be Campeche and Yucatan. Everywhere else in Mexico it's suggested that you should “exercise increased caution.” Some places I love to go, like Jalisco, Baja California, Chiapas, and Queretaro, I'm told I should “reconsider travel.” And my beloved Michoacan and Guerrero are “do not travel” zones, according to the US State Department. So … what does this mean for gringx bartenders?Agave Road Trip is a critically acclaimed, award-winning podcast that helps gringx bartenders better understand agave, agave spirits, and rural Mexico. This episode is hosted by Lou Bank with special guest Linda Sullivan of seynasecreto.Episode NotesThe cover to this episode is everything to me. The art is by Gilbert Hernandez — Beto, of Los Bros Hernandez, creators of the comics series Love and Rockets. When I was a 15- or 16-year-old kid, this comic book showed me that comics could tell any story. The magical realism that Beto and his brothers Jaime and Mario depicted in Mexico and Southern California stuck with me. I think a lot of the joy I feel when I'm traveling in rural Mexico now is the discovery of images that they planted in my teenage brain. I was a comics geek growing up — mainly Marvel with a bit of DC on the side. Then some of the alternative superhero stuff when that started popping in the 1980s. But Los Bros Hernandez showed me a whole different world. That realization of the broader stories that could be told through the medium didn't redirect the trajectory that I was on in the business side of comics. I landed at Marvel when I was 21 years old, where I made so many friends who are still friends to this day. The angry, sarcastic Greg Wright was one of those friends — is one of those friends, though now he's neither angry nor sarcastic having become a gentle and loving father who now goes by the more gentle and loving name Gregory Wright. Gregory stepped up to color this amazing Beto art.And the initial reason for commissioning the art? Since 2021, the National Museum of Mexican Art has welcomed me to help organize their annual spirited fund-raiser, Copitas de Sol. I get to drag in a bunch of spirits brands and a bunch of restaurants and bars, and I get to commission art like this. This cover will be one half of the poster for next year's Copitas de Sol, which will occur some time in August. And wait until you see the second half!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Show Notes: Miruna studied art history at Harvard, focusing on Renaissance art. After taking a year off to travel and visit Romania, she decided to study Latin American Studies and Spanish and Portuguese at Yale. She found the graduate experience at Yale challenging, especially the sense of isolation that can come with graduate work when it is not socially or politically involved. Miruna began traveling to Mexico for her research on colonial Latin America, focusing on the intersection of history of science, literature, and ritual. Teaching History of Science Miruna moved to Mexico City, where she still resides. She works at a public university, Universidad Autónoma Metropolitana, in the Humanities Department where she  works on narratives that have to do with the history of science. She also teaches courses on collecting and museum formation  from a material culture perspective. She works with the national archeological collection in Mexico City, focusing on how collections are formed and the role of material culture in shaping history. Arriving in the U.S. As a Refugee Miruna shares more about her experience as a refugee and her journey to the US. Miruna was 13 when she left Romania with her parents, staying in a refugee camp near Vienna before moving to the US. Her parents applied for asylum in Australia, Canada, and the U.S., and the U.S. was the first to grant it. Miruna describes the cultural shock of arriving in Los Angeles in March with heavy winter coats, highlighting the differences between Central Europe and Southern California. The Cultural Importance of Understanding the Past Miruna discusses her teaching at a public university in Mexico, where she encourages students to question and engage with the past. She explains the hierarchical nature of Mexican society and how public universities provide a space for people from different backgrounds to meet. Miruna emphasizes the importance of understanding that the past is not fixed and that there are always opportunities to intervene and shape the present. In her courses on the history of archeology and collecting, she encourages students to develop their own relationships with the past. Archeological Collections and Community Ownership Miruna shares a story from the 19th century about the National Museum of Mexico and how archeology became a central part of the country's national heritage. She explains how archeological collections were moved from communities to the capital, often with resistance from local people. Miruna discusses a specific incident where urns from the Pacific coast were shattered during transportation, highlighting the different ways of caring for objects. While disciplinary narratives insist that museums care for objects, this episode shows how the opposite is true as well: objects and their meanings can be destroyed, physically and conceptually in their transfer to museum. She further discusses  a more recent event, involving state violence and local resistance, when a 168-ton monolith was moved from  a village outside Mexico City to the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City, in 1964. Practices and Norms in Archeology The conversation turns to changes in archeological practices and norms over the years. Miruna notes that younger archeologists are more likely to seek permission from local communities and give credit to local guides and people working on excavations. She mentions the increasing difficulty of accessing certain areas in Mexico due to organized crime, which has reduced the number of archeological projects in some regions. Miruna emphasizes the importance of local museums and community collections in providing more inclusive and contextualized narratives. The Rise of Political Parties and the Zapatista Movement Miruna shares her experience of arriving in Mexico and the political changes she witnessed, including the rise of new political parties and the Zapatista movement. She describes the vibrant and dynamic nature of Mexican society, with ongoing efforts to find new ways of relating to the past and imagining the future. Miruna discusses the challenges of prejudice and hierarchies in Mexican society, despite progress in areas like gay marriage and feminist marches. Science Fiction as a Form of Resistance Miruna teaches science fiction written from the Global South, which she sees as a form of resistance against dominant narratives. She explains that this genre is relatively new in Latin America and is influenced by writers from the Global North like Octavia Butler and Ursula Le Guin. Miruna highlights the work of young writers like Gabriela Damian and Fernanda Trias, who explore social and cultural realities through science fiction. She discusses the importance of imagining open networks and connected worlds, rather than closed systems and technological fantasies. Archeological Points of Interest in Mexico Miruna offers a few recommendations for visitors interested in archeology in Mexico. She suggests visiting the Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City, which focuses on archeology and pre-Hispanic history. She also recommends a trip to Teotihuacan, highlighting the importance of visiting the mural paintings in the residential compounds. Miruna also recommends exploring the center of Mexico City, which is a palimpsest of different centuries and cultures, with the Templo Mayor, a pre-Hispanic structure from the 16th century, which is rising out of the ground due to shifts in soil and shifts in the water table. Harvard  Reflections Miruna mentions Joseph Koerner, who taught Northern Renaissance art, and John Sherman, who taught Italian Renaissance art. She also recalls Oleg Grabar, who taught Islamic art and read poems such as Yeats' poem "Sailing to Byzantium" to inspire students to see art with different eyes. Miruna expresses regret for not taking classes with other influential professors like Stephen Jay Gould, which she would have loved to do now. Timestamps: 01:35: Studying Art History and Latin American Studies 03:20: Life and Work in Mexico City 04:43: Experiences as a Refugee and Arrival in the US 08:43: Teaching and Research in Mexico 13:41: Historical Context of Archeology in Mexico 21:43: Changes in Archeological Practices 24:33: Miruna's Experience in Mexico and Political Context 29:38: Teaching Science Fiction from the Global South Featured Non-profit The featured non-profit of this week's episode is recommended by Becca Braun who reports: “ Hi. I'm Becca Braun from the class of 1992. The featured nonprofit of this episode of The 92 Report is the Lawrence School in Sagamore Hills, Ohio. The Lawrence School is a leading school in teaching students with ADHD and dyslexia, and its wonderful tagline is “Great Minds Don't Think Alike.” Lawrence School has been transformative for our youngest child with ADHD, and he went from thinking that he was a troublemaker and problem student to completely believing in himself and loving going to school every day. Every child should have this opportunity, regardless of their financial means. We have donated and hope that you might so that more children with ADHD or dyslexia, those who are unable to thrive in large public school classrooms might have the opportunity to attend this transformative school. Thanks a lot. You can learn more about their work at Lawrence school.org, Lawrence L, A, W, R, E, N, C, E, school.org, and now here is Will Bachman with this week's episode.” To learn more about their work, visit: www.lawrenceschool.org. 

On this episode, Payton unravels the chilling history and dark legends surrounding the world's most cursed doll. Links: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/murderwithmyhusband NEW MERCH LINK: https://mwmhshop.com Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Twitch: twitch.tv/throatypie Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paytonmorelandshow/ Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUbh-B5Or9CT8Hutw1wfYqQ Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7 Case Sources: The Little House of Horrors - https://thelittlehouseofhorrors.com/annabelle-the-demonic-doll/ Boston Ghosts - https://bostonghosts.com/annabelle-the-haunted-doll/ i95 - https://i95rock.com/annabelle-doll-left-connecticut-museum-heres-whats-happening-now/ NBC News - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Rric-i6NI CT Insider - https://www.ctinsider.com/entertainment/article/annabelle-missing-rumor-warren-occult-museum-ct-20346806.php New England Society for Psychic Research - https://tonyspera.com/annabelle/ National Museum of Play - https://www.museumofplay.org/toys/raggedy-ann-and-andy/ USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/2025/05/25/annabelle-new-orleans-plantation-fire/83743565007/ All That's Interesting - https://allthatsinteresting.com/annabelle-doll New York Post - https://nypost.com/2025/07/15/us-news/paranormal-investigator-dan-rivera-dies-on-annabelle-haunted-doll-tour/ Yahoo! Entertainment - https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/articles/annabelle-doll-handler-dan-rivera-021708827.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Culture keepers and historians are closely watching President Donald Trump's review of the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian (NMAI) and other institutions to eliminate what he calls derisive or partisan narratives. It's among eight museums that receive federal funding are that are currently under review. NMAI's exhibits include Native American perspectives on historical documents and events that include treaties, Indian Boarding Schools, the Termination Era, the American Indian Movement, and the Indian Child Welfare Act, among many others. Those watching are concerned Trump's directive could permanently alter how those topics are presented to the public. NMAI also develops educational curricula that counters incomplete instruction on historical events, like Thanksgiving. We'll hear from those who were instrumental in NMAI's founding, as well as get perspective on Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's announcement that soldiers that took part in the Wounded Knee Massacre would retain their Medals of Honor. GUESTS Dr. Suzan Shown Harjo (Cheyenne and Hodulgee Muscogee), president of the Morning Star Institute, a founding trustee of NMAI, and recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom Rick West Jr. (Cheyenne and Arapaho), CEO emeritus of the Autry Museum of the American West and founding director of NMAI OJ Semans Sr. (Rosebud Sioux), co-executive director of Four Directions Vote

October 4, 1915. President Woodrow Wilson designates Dinosaur National Monument as a national historic site. That's a big deal, right? There must've been a grand ribbon-cutting ceremony, maybe even a parade. But no. In 1915, nobody really cares about dinosaurs. But that is all about to change. And when it does, it is largely because of two paleontologists. Two guys who started off as best friends … until their growing obsession with unearthing and cataloging dinosaur bones would turn them into rivals. Then enemies. How did the competition between a pair of paleontologists lead to unprecedented dinosaur discoveries? And how did their rivalry unhinge them both?  Special thanks to guest Dr. Hans Sues, curator of vertebrate paleontology at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History. ** This episode originally aired October 3, 2022. Get in touch: historythisweekpodcast@history.com  Follow on Instagram: @historythisweek Follow on Facebook: ⁠HISTORY This Week Podcast⁠ To stay updated: http://historythisweekpodcast.com To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, two new cast members are given a big role, skip waiting for A Christmas Fantasy Parade this holiday season, a new experience is coming to Downtown Disney, behind the scenes with the new Oogie Boogie at Haunted Mansion Holiday, a preview of Mr. Lincoln returning next year, a construction update, we talk about our time at this year's Dreaming Tree Gala in Marceline, Missouri, and more! Please support the show if you can by going to https://www.dlweekly.net/support/. Check out all of our current partners and exclusive discounts at https://www.dlweekly.net/promos. News: Just a few days ago, two cast members were selected for a very important role at the Disneyland Resort. Michele Mary and Oralia Neria Felix will represent thousands of cast members as the 2026-2027 Disneyland Ambassador Team. This year marks the 60th anniversary of the Ambassador program, which was started by Walt Disney himself for the 10th anniversary of Disneyland. Since the start, nearly 250 cast members have been part of Ambassador teams all around the world. In addition to the parks, Aulani, the Disney Resort and Spa in Hawaii also has an ambassador. – https://disneyparksblog.com/disney-experiences/2026-2027-disney-ambassadors-celebrate-cast-community-disney-spirit/ https://www.laughingplace.com/disney-parks/disneyland-resort-reveals-2026-27-ambassadors/ This holiday season, there is no need to wait for the perfect spot to see The Christmas Fantasy Parade. The Plaza Inn will offer a dining package starting November 16th that includes reserved parade viewing. The package is priced at $58 per adult and $32 per child. The package includes a creamy potato leek soup, herb-roasted chicken with mashed potatoes, buttered haricots verts served with a caramelized onion sauce, a holiday yule log, and a fountain drink. The childs meal includes chicken tenders served with creamy mashed potatoes, green beans, and chicken gravy with a Hawaiian roll, holiday yule log, and botttled water or milk. Booking starts on September 25th. – https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2025/09/20/disney-confirms-full-menu-and-prices-for-exclusive-holiday-dining-package-in-disneyland/#more-1069412 We have talked before about wages at the Disneyland Resort and all the struggles that cast and the company have had coming to a mutually beneficial agreement. Disneyland has agreed to pay $233 million dollars to settle a 2019 class-action lawsuit that alleged Disney was not adjusting wages to match the higher requirements that Anaheim had passed. In addition to the settlement, four unions representing over 14,000 employees struck a deal to raise the base pay to $24 an hour, including back pay with interest to 2019. – https://www.micechat.com/423670-disneyland-news-most-stressful-record-settlement-ceo-succession/ A new experience is coming to Naples Ristorante e Bar in Downtown Disney this Halloween season. Pumpkins & Pancakes is a 90 minute experience that includes a family-style breakfast with hot cocoa and cider, pumpkin picking and decorating, a photo opportunity, take-home treats, and bottomless momosas for guests 21+. Tickets are $75, plus tax and gratuity, for adults, and $39 for kids age 3-10. To reserve a place, check out the link in our show notes. – https://www.micechat.com/423670-disneyland-news-most-stressful-record-settlement-ceo-succession/ https://www.exploretock.com/naples-ristorante-e-bar-anaheim/experience/494937/pumpkins-pancakes?date=2025-10-05&size=2&time=10%3A00 Walt Disney Imagineering is at it again showing off their skills online! This time, they posted a video on Instagram showing off the behind-the-scenes that resulted in the updated Oogie Boogie for Haunted Mansion Holiday. Imagineers show off how they did it and what is new this time – https://www.laughingplace.com/disney-parks/haunted-mansion-holiday-oogie-boogie-update/ Weeklyteers who watched the special edition of 20/20 for the Disneyland 70th Anniversary may have seen a preview of Mr. Lincoln, which will be premiering after the 70th anniversary in 2026, in rotation with Walt Disney – A Magical Life. The Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln show will be largely the same, except for the setting. Lincoln now sits in a space similar to the Oval Office, flanked by US and State of Illinois flags. If you missed it on ABC, you can stream The Happiest Story on Earth: 70 Years of Disneyland on Disney+ and Hulu. – https://www.laughingplace.com/disney-parks/reimagined-great-moments-with-mr-lincoln-first-look/ Not a ton is going on construction-wise in the parks, but there is quite a bit going on in Downtown Disney. The security checkpoint between the Disneyland Hotel and the shopping district is under construction to add a new, permanent gate. The new location for Earl of Sandwich continues to take shape, while work still continues on Lullemon in the old ESPN Zone building, and exterior work on the LEGO store. – https://www.micechat.com/423670-disneyland-news-most-stressful-record-settlement-ceo-succession/ A recent study of TripAdvisor reviews found that some of the places we like to visit the most are also the most stressful. Theme parks dominate the results, with 6 Disney locations in the top 20 worldwide. Disneyland ranks #5 globally, but #1 in the US, followed by the Las Vegas Strip, and the National Museum of American History in Washington, DC. Some reasons for theme parks to rank so highly include a combination of massive crowds, long wait times, and high expectations. To see all the results, check out the link in our show notes. – https://www.micechat.com/423670-disneyland-news-most-stressful-record-settlement-ceo-succession/ SnackChat: Downtown Disney – Earl of Sandwich Main – https://earlofsandwichusa.com/menu/downtown-disney-at-the-tavern/ Trailer – https://www.earlofsandwichusa.com/menu/downtown-disney/ Discussion Topic: 2025 Dreaming Tree Gala Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Metzdorf, Julie www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Fazit

Metzdorf, Julie www.deutschlandfunk.de, Kultur heute

The very successful Canon ‘World Unseen' exhibition which showcases a series of photographs taken by world-renowned photographers accompanied by elevated prints, audio descriptions, soundscapes and braille that launched at Somerset House in London in April 2024 is now out on tour. Canon worked closely with the RNIB on the launch of the exhibition at Somerset House and now ‘World Unseen' is on display at the Iziko National Museum in Cape Town South Africa.  RNIB Connect Radio's Toby Davey was joined by David Preston from Canon South Africa and the British High Commissioner to South Africa, Antony Phillipson to find out more about bringing ‘World Unseen' to South Africa and how the exhibition is helping to show how art and photography can be made accessible for blind and partially sighted people as well as the exhibition changing peoples perceptions around sight loss too. All the photographs in the Canon ‘World Unseen' exhibition along with the soundscapes that feature audio description can be found on the following pages of the Canon website - https://www.canon.co.uk/view/unsee-the-world/ Image shows the World Unseen logo, white text in block capitals against a black background with a diagonal red line on the left

Dr. Louis L. Jacobs is Emeritus Professor in the Roy M. Huffington Department of Earth Sciences and President of the ISEM at SMU. As a vertebrate paleontologist, Louis studies the fossils of animals with backbones. His goal is to understand their evolution and how it fits together with the earth and the environment to present a holistic picture of our world. When he's not working, Louis loves to look at rocks, tend to orchids, bind books, and spend quality time with his grandchildren. They are insatiably curious and interested in everything, including rocks, fossils, and space. He received his B.S. degree from the University of Southwestern Louisiana (now the University of Louisiana at Lafayette) and his M.S. and Ph.D. degrees in Vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution from the University of Arizona. After completing his training, he worked as a research paleontologist at the Museum of Northern Arizona, a geologist for the U.S. Geological Survey, a lecturer and a research associate at the University of Arizona, Head of the Division of Paleontology at the National Museums of Kenya. He joined the faculty at SMU in 1983. During his time at SMU, Louis has held leadership positions at the Dallas Museum of Natural History as well as the Shuler Museum of Paleontology at SMU, where he ultimately served as Director for 13 years. Louis has won numerous awards and honors for his scholarship, his service, and the books he has written, including the University Scholar/Teacher of the Year Award from SMU, the Joseph T. Gregory Award for Service to the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology, The Texas Earth Science Teachers Association Lifetime Membership and Friends of TESTA Award, and many others. In addition, he is a past Fellow of the Explorers Club, Past President of the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology, and ten fossil species have been named after him. In this interview, he shares more about his life and science.

Greg Sarris is an author, professor, and is the Chairman of the Federated Indians of Graton Rancheria and the current Chair of the Board of Trustees of the Smithsonian's National Museum of the American Indian. On this episode of Nature Revisited, Greg discusses his latest work, The Forgetters, a richly beautiful story cycle about remembering our shared histories and repairing the world. Recounting his early years, to discovering his native american heritage, Greg explains how stories and language are what makes us human, and how the lessons contained in the the stories of our indigenous ancestors contain the blueprints for a survivable future through a reconnection with nature and each other. [Originally published April 16th 2024, Ep 119] Greg's website: https://greg-sarris.com/ Listen to Nature Revisited on your favorite podcast apps, on YouTube, or at https://noordenproductions.com Subscribe on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/bdz4s9d7 Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/5n7yx28t Subscribe on Youtube Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/bddd55v9 Podlink: https://pod.link/1456657951 Support Nature Revisited https://noordenproductions.com/support Nature Revisited is produced by Stefan van Norden and Charles Geoghegan. We welcome your comments, questions and suggestions - contact us at https://noordenproductions.com/contact

How do you design a world that honors Hawaiian history while telling a story on a global stage? For Production Designer Jean-François Campeau, the answer was equal parts creativity, cultural respect, and collaboration. This week on Below the Line, Skid is joined by Jean-François “JF” Campeau, Production Designer of Chief of War, the Apple TV+ historical drama starring Jason Momoa. Two special guests from the Smithsonian Institution add their perspectives: Kalewa Correa, Curator of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific at the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center, and Halena Kapuni-Reynolds, Associate Curator of Native Hawaiian History and Culture at the National Museum of the American Indian. We cover: JF's first reaction to the project — both inspired and intimidated by the cultural weight of the story Research at the Bishop Museum and working closely with Hawaiian and Māori cultural advisors to ground the sets in authenticity Constructing major builds like temples, strongholds, and the bone tower — with blessings and protocols woven into the process Carving sacred objects from authentic materials, including shipping an ʻōhiʻa tree from Hawai‘i to New Zealand for sculpting Collaborating with Pacific artisans on woven mats, sails, and canoes that carried both cultural and cinematic weight Blending Hawaiian and New Zealand landscapes, balancing cultural similarities with visual continuity challenges Jason Momoa's insistence on filming battle sequences on real Hawaiian lava fields — including a shoot delayed by Mauna Loa's eruption Capturing the gravity of historically significant moments, like the Olowalu massacre carried out under Captain Simon Metcalfe, with sensitivity to sacred ground JF's personal reflections on how the project changed him, and the values he carried forward from working alongside Native Hawaiian and Māori communities The conversation also touches on recommended resources for further learning, including Ke Kumu Aupuni: The Foundation of Hawaiian Nationhood by Samuel Kamaka and Fragments of Hawaiian History by John Papa Iʻi, suggested by our Smithsonian co-hosts. What emerges is a portrait of a production designer whose work went beyond craft to embrace cultural exchange — designing a world that feels both epic and deeply rooted in respect.

Antelman both deconstructs the body and then reassembles it, not just as a way of imagining a deeper connection with nature, but also as a way of expressing how malleable the very idea of it has become. In place of a techno-utopianism, in which the steady advance of technology is uniformly celebrated, Antelman expresses an atavistic position instead, one which delights in the complexity of nature rather than seeking to explain or instrumentalize it. Her work reminds us that what is mysterious in the world often connects us to what is mystical in it as well. Born 1971 in Athens, Greece, Maria Antelman received her MFA in New Genres from Columbia University and a BA in Art History from the Complutense University, Madrid. Her work has exhibited internationally, including at the Bemis Center of Contemporary Art, Omaha, NE; Pioneer Works, New York; Macedonian Museum of Contemporary Art, Thessaloniki; Visual Arts Center at the University of Texas, Austin; Botanical Garden I&A Diomidos, Athens; National Museum of Contemporary Art, Athens; Onassis Cultural Centre, Athens; Benaki Museum, Athens; Centro Nacional de Arte Contemporaneo, Cerillos, Chile and Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, San Francisco. Antelman's work was included in Companion Pieces: New Photography 2020 at the Museum of Modern Art, New York. She has been the recipient of grants from the Onassis Foundation USA, as well as the National Museum of Contemporary Art and the J.F. Costopoulos Foundation, Athens. Antelman has taken part in artist residences including Silver Art Projects, Pioneer Works and the International Studio & Curatorial Program in New York. Antelman currently lives and works in Athens. Maria Antelman, Conjurer, 2024. Archival pigment print, 21 1/2 x 27 1/2 inches. © Maria Antelman. Courtesy Yancey Richardson, New York Maria Antelman, Hypnos, 2020. Archival pigment print, 58 x 52 inches. © Maria Antelman. Courtesy Yancey Richardson, New York Maria Antelman, Hall of Mirrors, 2020. Archival pigment print, 39 x 19 inches. © Maria Antelman. Courtesy Yancey Richardson, New York

It's the most recognizable TV theme in America. But Jeopardy's “Think Music” wasn't originally written for a game show… It was written for a toddler. In this episode, we trace the unlikely journey of the Jeopardy theme, from Merv Griffin's living room to over 10,000 episodes across six decades. Along the way, we explore the show's sonic evolution, including honking buzzers, 80s synths, and orchestral remixes. Featuring Lisa Broffman, Jeopardy's Consulting Co-Executive Producer.This episode was written & produced by Casey Emmerling.Visit the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History to see some of the Jeopardy objects we have in the collection. MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODEHarry Endivo - Don't Bore Me Alberto!Medité - This Round's On MeFlickering - The SquadAndreas Dahlbäck - 808 or 909Trevor Kowalski - Watercolor Motion IGavin Luke - The Power of One Art by Michael Zhang.This episode of Twenty Thousand Hertz is part of our summer playlist to keep you entertained while Sidedoor is on summer break. We'll be back in the fall with brand new episodes of Sidedoor.

Local leaders are calling for a full investigation after an immigration enforcement agent fatally shot Silverio Villegas-Gonzalez in Franklin Park. Host Jacoby Cochran and executive producer Simone Alicea have the latest, including resources on ICE activity in Chicago. Plus, they're wishing luck to the Leo High School boys choir on “America's Got Talent” and they're taking a skyscraper quiz ahead of Chicagohenge.  Good News: Día De Muertos at National Museum of Mexican Art Want some more City Cast Chicago news? Then make sure to sign up for our Hey Chicago newsletter.  Follow us @citycastchicago You can also text us or leave a voicemail at: 773 780-0246 Learn more about the sponsors of this Sept. 16 episode: Chicago Architecture Center Kidney Cancer Association Chicago Association of Realtors Window Nation The Newberry Become a member of City Cast Chicago. Interested in advertising with City Cast? Find more info HERE

Reality and Faith Prompts1. What are the formations or structures for how you know you are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Internal senses? External resources? 2. Who are you in active dialogue with in regards to your faith? Who that is living and who that is passed on? 3. When you encounter dissonance with your reality of faith, how do you stay grounded in your experience?TranscriptsDanielle (00:00):To my computer. So thank you Starlet. Thank you Tamis for being with me. I've given already full introductions. I've recorded those separately. So the theme of the conversation and kind of what we're getting into on this podcast this season is I had this vision for talking about the themes have been race, faith, culture, church in the past on my podcast. But what I really think the question is, where is our reality and where are our touchpoints in those different realms? And so today there's going to be more info on this in the future, but where do we find reality and how do we form our reality when we integrate faith? So one of the questions I was asking Tamis and Starlet was what are the formations or structures for how you know are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Do you have internal senses? Do you have external resources? And so that's where I want to jump off from and it's free flow. I don't do a whole lot of editing, but yeah, just curious where your mind goes when you hear that, what comes to mind and we'll jump from there.Starlette (01:12):I immediately thought of baptism, baptismal waters. My baptismal identity forms and shapes me. It keeps me in touch with my body. It keeps me from being disembodied. Also, it keeps me from being swindled out of authority over my body due to the dangerous irrationalism of white body supremacy. So that's one thing. Protest also keeps me grounded. I have found that acts of defiance, minor personal rebellions, they do well for me. They keep me spiritually that I feel like it keeps me in step with Jesus. And I always feel like I'm catching up that I'm almost stepping on his feet. So for me, baptismal identity and protesting, those are the two things come to me immediately.Tamice (02:04):Whoa, that's so deep. Wow, I never thought about that. But I never thought about protests being a thing that groundsBecause I mean I've just been, for me I would say I've been working on the right so, and y'all know me, so I got acronyms for days. But I mean I think that the radical ethical spirituality that's tethered to my tradition, that's a rule of life, but it's also a litmus test. So for me, if you can't tell the truth, we don't have conversations about non-violence and loving enemies. I don't get to ethical spirituality unless you come through the front door of truth telling and truth telling in that sense of the r. And the rest arrest mix tape is radical. Angela Davis says radical and that's grasping stuff at the root. So before we have conversations about forgiveness for instance, or Jesus or scripture or what is right and what is moral, it's very important that we first tell the truth about the foundations of those realities and what we even mean by those terms and whose those terms serve and where they come from. I talk about it asking to see the manager. We need see the manager(03:24):Me that grounds me is now if something comes in and it calls me to move in a different way or corrects me or checks me in a certain way, I say yes to it if it comes through the door of truth telling because it means I also got to be true and tell the truth to myself. So that keeps me grounded. That kind of acronym is kind of how I move, but it's also how I keep toxic ways of doing religion out. And I also have come back into relationship with trees and grass and the waters and that's been really powerful for moving down into different types of intelligence. For me, the earth has been pulling me into a different way of knowing and being in that part brings me to ancestors. Just like you starlet my ancestors, I keep finding them in the trees and in the water and in the wind. So it's like, well I need them real bad right now. So that's where I'm kind of grounding myself these days.But to your point about grounding and protest, I feel most compelled to show up in spaces where the ground is crying out screaming. I feel like it beckons me there. And we talked about the most recent news of Trey being found and you talked about truth telling and what resonated immediately. And it didn't sit right with me that African-American people, people of African descent know not to take their lives in that way because of the traumatic history that when you say things like you don't suspect any foul play, it sounds like what has historically been named as at the hands of persons unknown where that no one is held responsible for the death of African-American people. That's what ties it in for me. And I feel like it's an ancestral pool that they didn't leave this way, they didn't leave in the way that they were supposed to, that something stinks and that they're crying out to say, can you hear me? Come over here Terry a while here. Don't leave him here. Don't let up on it because we didn't call him here somebody. So I love that you said that you are, feel yourself being grounded in and call back to the earth because I do feel like it speaks to us,But there are telltale signs in it and that the trees will tell us too. And so I didn't have a hand in this. It was forced on me and I saw it all come and talk to me. Put your hand here, put your head here and you can hear me scream and then you can hear me scream, you can hear him scream. He was calling out the whole time. That's what I believe in. That's how I test reality. I tested against what the earth is saying like you said, but I think we have to walk the ground a bit. We have to pace the ground a bit. We can't just go off of what people are saying. Back to your point about truth telling, don't trust nobody I don't trust. I don't trust anybody that's going to stop because you can't fix a lie. So if you're going to come in with deception, there's not much else I can do with you. There's not much I can say to you. And I find that white body supremacy is a supreme deception. So if we can't start there in a conversation, there's nothing that I can say to youTamice (06:46):That's facts. It's interesting that you talked about baptism, you talked about grounding and I had this story pop up and while you were talking again it popped up again. So I'm going to tell it. So we are not going to talk about who and all the things that happened recently, but I had made some comments online around that and around just the choice to be blind. So I've been talking a lot about John nine and this passage where it is very clear to everyone else what's happening, but the people who refuse to see, refuse to see.So in that, I was kind of pulled into that. I was in Mississippi, I was doing some stuff for the book and this lady, a chaplain, her name is Sally Bevin, actually Sally Bevel, she walked up to me, she kept calling me, she was like, Tam me, she want to come. I have my whole family there. We were at the Mississippi Book Fair and she kept saying, Tam me, she want to come join, dah, dah, dah. Then my family walked off and they started to peruse and then she asked me again and I was like, no, I'm good. And I was screaming. I mean I'm looking in the screen and the third time she did it, it pulled me out and I was like, this woman is trying to pull me into being present. And she said to me, this is funny, starlet. I said, I feel like I need to be washed and I need a baptism because this phone feels like so on right now and the wickedness is pulling me. So she poured, she got some ice, cold water, it was 95 degrees, poured cold water on my hands, had me wash my hands and she took the cold water. She put a cross on my forehead. And you know what she said to me? She said, remember your baptism?She said, remember your baptism? And when I was baptized, even though it was by a man who will not also be named, when I was baptized the wind, there was a whirlwind at my baptism. It was in 2004, that same wind hit in Mississippi and then I felt like I was supposed to take my shoes off. So I walked around the Mississippi Festival with no shoes on, not knowing that the earth was about to receive two people who did not deserve to be hung from trees. And there's something very, I feel real talk, I feel afraid for white supremacy right now in the name of my ancestors and I feel like I'm calling on everything right now. And that's also grounding me.Starlette (09:36):I was with Mother Moses last week. I went to Dorchester County just to be with her because the people were here. Take me. I said, I'll leave them all here. I know you said there are a few here, but give me the names, give me the last names of the people because I don't have time for this. I see why she left people. I see why she was packing. So to your point, I think it's important that we talk to the ancestors faithfully, religiously. We sit down at their feet and listen for a bit about how they got over and how they got through it and let them bear witness to us. And she does it for me every time, every single time she grounds, she grounds meDanielle (10:23):Listening to you all. I was like, oh wait. It is like Luke 19 where Jesus is coming in on the show and he didn't ride in on the fanciest plane on a donkey. And if you're familiar with that culture that is not the most elevated animal, not the elevated animal to ride, it's not the elevated animal. You don't eat it. Not saying that it isn't eaten at times, but it's not right. So he rides in on that and then people are saying glory to God in the highest and they're praising him and the Pharisees are like, don't do that because it's shameful and I don't remember the exact words, but he's basically be quiet. The rocks are going to tell the story of what happened here. He's walking his way. It kind of reminds me to me. So what you're saying, he's walking away, he's going to walk and he's going to walk that way and he's going to walk to his death. He's walking it in two scenarios that Jesus goes in to talk about. Your eyes are going to be blind to peace, to the real way to peace. It's going to be a wall put around you and you're going to miss out. People are going to destroy you because you missed your chance.Starlette (11:50):Point again creation. And if you're going to be a rock headed people, then I'll recruit this rock choir. They get ready to rock out on you. If there's nothing you're going to say. So even then he says that creation will bear witness against you. You ain't got to do it. You ain't got to do it. I can call these rock. You can be rock headed if you want to. You can be stony hearted if you want to. I can recruit choir members from the ground,Tamice (12:16):But not even that because y'all know I'm into the quantum and metaphysics. Not even that they actually do speak of course, like words are frequencies. So when you hold a certain type of element in your hand, that thing has a frequency to it. That's alright that they said whatever, I don't need it from you. Everything else is tapped into this.Starlette (12:39):Right. In fact, it's the rocks are tapped into a reality. The same reality that me and this donkey and these people throwing stuff at my feet are tapped into.You are not tapped into reality. And so that's why he makes the left and not the right because typically when a person is coming to Saka city, they head towards the temple. He went the other direction because he is like it was a big fuck. I don't use power like this. And actually what I'm about to do is raise you on power. This is a whole different type of power. And that's what I feel like our ancestors, the realities that the alternative intelligence in the world you're talking about ai, the alternative intelligence in the world is what gives me every bit of confidence to look this beast in the face and call it what it is. This isTamice (13:52):And not going to bow to it. And I will go down proclaiming it what it is. I will not call wickedness good.And Jesus said, Jesus was so when he talks about the kingdom of heaven suffering violence and the violence taken it by force, it's that it's like there's something so much more violent about being right and righteous. Y'all have to use violence because you can't tell the truth.Danielle (14:29):Do you see the split two? There's two entirely different realities happening. Two different kingdoms, two entirely different ways of living in this era and they're using quote J, but it's not the same person. It can't be, you cannot mix white Jesus and brown Jesus. They don't go together. TheyStarlette (15:00):Don't, what is it? Michael O. Emerson and Glenn e Bracy. The second they have this new book called The Religion of Whiteness, and they talk about the fact that European Americans who are racialized as white Tahi says those who believe they are white. He says that there's a group of people, the European Americans who are racialized as white, who turn to scripture to enforce their supremacy. And then there's another group of people who turn to scripture to support and affirm our sibling.It is two different kingdoms. It's funny, it came to me the other day because we talk about, I've talked about how for whiteness, the perception of goodness is more important than the possession of it.You know what I mean? So mostly what they do is seek to be absolved. Right? So it's just, and usually with the being absolved means I'm less bad than that, so make that thing more bad than me and it's a really terrible way to live a life, but it is how whiteness functions, and I'm thinking about this in the context of all that is happening in the world because it's like you cannot be good and racist period. And that's as clear as you cannot love God and mammon you will end up hating one and loving the other. You cannot love God. You cannotStarlette (16:29):Love God and hate your next of kin your sibling. Dr. Angela Parker says something really important During the Wild Goose Festival, she asked the participants there predominantly European American people, those racialized as white. She said, do you all Terry, do you Terry, do you wait for the Holy Spirit? Do you sit with yourself and wait for God to move? And it talked, it spoke to me about power dynamic. Do you feel like God is doing the moving and you wait for the spirit to anoint you, to fill you, to inspire you, to baptize you with fire? You Terry, do you wait a while or do you just the other end of that that she doesn't say, do you just get up? I gave my life to Jesus and it's done right handed fellowship, give me my certificate and walk out the door. You have to sit with yourself and I don't know what your tradition is.I was raised Pentecostal holiness and I had to tear all night long. I was on my knees calling on the name of Jesus and I swear that Baba couldn't hear me. Which octave do you want me to go in? I lost my voice. You know them people, them mothers circled me with a sheet and told me I didn't get it that night that I had to come back the next day after I sweat out my down, I sweat out my press. Okay. I pressed my way trying to get to that man and they told me he didn't hear me. He not coming to get you today. I don't hear a change. They were looking for an evidence of tongues. They didn't hear an evidence, a change speech. You still sound the way that you did when you came in here. And I think that white body supremacy, that's where the problem lies with me. There's no difference. I don't hear a change in speech. You're still talking to people as if you can look down your nose with them. You have not been submerged in the water. You did not go down in the water. White supremacy, white body supremacy has not been drowned out.Terry, you need to Terry A. Little while longer. I'll let you know when you've gotten free. When you've been lifted, there's a cloud of witnesses. Those mothers rubbing your back, snapping your back and saying, call on him. Call him like you want him. Call him like you need him and they'll tell you when they see evidence, they'll let you, you know when you've been tied up, tangled up. That's what we would say. Wrapped up in Jesus and I had to come back a second night and call on the Lord and then they waited a while. They looked, they said, don't touch her, leave her alone. He got her now, leave her alone. But there was an affirmation, there was a process. You couldn't just get up there and confess these ABCs and salvation, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Why do you think they'll let you know when you got it?Danielle (18:56):Why do you think that happened? Why? I have a question for You'all. Why do you think that became the reality of the prayer in that moment? And we're talking about Africans that have been brought here and enslaved. Why do you think that happened on our soil that way? Why question?Tamice (19:12):I mean I'm wondering about it because when stylists talk and I keep thinking the Terry in and of itself is a refusal. It says what I see is not real. What's in front of me is not right. I'm going to wait for something else.I'm saying, the slave Bible, them taking stuff out of the Bible and it's like, but I feel like the ground, there was something about the ground that indigenous people, that indigenous people were able to help them tap into over here. It was waiting on that.Starlette (19:49):We didn't have punishment. We had a percussion session. So they ring shouted me. I didn't know what it was at the time. We didn't have all the fancy stuff. Everybody had put me in key. We didn't have, we had this and feet them people circled around me. We don't do that no more.Danielle (20:06):We don't do that no more. But don't you think if you're a person that is, and I believe Africans came here with faith already. Oh yes, there's evidence of that. So put that aside, but don't you think then even if you have that faith and it's not so different than our time and you're confronted with slave owners and plantation owners also preaching quote the same faith that you're going to have to test it out on your neighbor when they're getting saved. You're going to have to make sure they didn't catch that bug.Don't you think there's something in there? Block it. Don't you think if you know faith internally already like we do and run into someone that's white that's preaching the same thing, we have to wait it out with them. Don't you think our ancestors knew that when they were here they were waiting it out. I just noticed my spirit match that spirit. We have to wait it out. Yes, because and let's say they didn't know Jesus. Some people didn't know Jesus and they met Jesus here for whatever reason, and your example is still the white man. You have to wait it out to make sure you're not reflecting that evilness. I mean that's what I'm thinking. That's it's the absolutelyStarlette (21:20):Truth. There's a book titled Slave Testimony, and I know this because I just read about it. There's a testimony of an enslaved African-American, he's unnamed. It was written on June 26th, 1821. He's talking to Master John. He said, I want permission to speak to you if you please. He talked about, he said, where is it? Where is it? A few words. I hope that you will not think Me too bull. Sir, I make my wants known to you because you are, I believe the oldest and most experienced that I know of. He says in the first place, I want you to tell me the reason why you always preach to the white folks and keep your back to us is because they sit up on the hill. We have no chance among them there. We must be forgotten because we are near enough. We are not near enough without getting in the edge of the swamp behind you. He was calling him to account. He said, when you sell me, do you make sure that I'm sold to a Christian or heathen?He said, we are charged with inattention because of where their position. He said it's impossible for us to pay good attention with this chance. In fact, some of us scarce think that we are preached to it all. He says, money appears to be the object. We are carried to market and sold to the highest bidder. Never once inquired whether you sold to a heathen or a Christian. If the question was put, did you sell to a Christian, what would the answer be? I can tell you, I can tell what he was, gave me my price. That's all I was interested in. So I don't want people to believe that Africans who were enslaved did not talk back, did not speak back. They took him to task. He said, everybody's not literate. There's about one in 50 people who are, and I'm one of them and I may not be able to speak very well, but this is what I want to tell you. I can tell the difference. I know that you're not preaching to me the same. I know that when you talk about salvation, you're not extending it to me.Yikes. You need to know that our people, these ancestors, not only were they having come to Jesus meetings, but they were having come to your senses, meeting with their oppressor and they wrote it down. They wrote it down. I get sick of the narratives that we are not our answer. Yes we are. Yes I am. I'm here because of them. I think they called me. I think they call me here. I think the fussing that I make, the anger that I possess this need to resist every damn thing. I think they make me do thatTamice (23:35):Indeed, I think. But I didn't get my voice until they took the MLE off, had an honor with my ancestors and they came and they told me it's time. Take that mle off, MLE off. Shoot. Why Jesus ain't tell me to take no muzzle off. I'm going to tell you that now.Danielle (23:52):That's why I mean many indigenous people said, Jesus didn't come back for me because if that guy's bringing me Jesus, then now Jesus didn't come back for me.Starlette (24:07):Come on.Make it plain. Danielle, go ahead. Go ahead. Walk heavy today. Yeah, I meanDanielle (24:17):I like this conversation. Why Jesus, why Jesus didn't come back for us, the three of us. He didn't come back for us. It didn't come back from kids. He didn't come back for my husband. Nope. And so then therefore that we're not going to find a freedom through that. No, that's no desire to be in that.Tamice (24:33):None. And that's what I mean and making it very, very plain to people like, listen, I actually don't want to be in heaven with your Jesus heaven. With your Jesus would be hell. I actually have one,Starlette (24:47):The one that they had for us, they had an N word heaven for us where they would continue to be served and they wrote it down. It's bad for people who are blio foes who like to read those testimonies. It is bad for people who like to read white body supremacy For Phil. Yeah, they had one for us. They had separate creation narratives known as polygenetic, but they also had separate alon whereby they thought that there was a white heaven and an inward heaven.I didn't even know that. Starla, I didn't even know that because they said they want to make sure their favorite slave was there to serve them. Oh yes, the delusion. People tell me that they're white. I really do push back for a reason. What do you mean by that? I disagree with all of it. What part of it do you find agreeable? The relationship of ruling that you maintain over me? The privilege. White power. Which part of it? Which part of it is good for you and for me? How does it help us maintain relationship as Christians?Danielle (25:47):I think that's the reality and the dissonance we live in. Right?Starlette (25:51):That's it. But I think there needs to be a separation.Are you a white supremacist or not?Tamice (26:03):That's what I'm saying. That's why I keep saying, listen, at this point, you can't be good and racist. Let me just say that. Oh no, you got to pickStarlette (26:12):And I need to hear itTamice (26:13):Both. Yeah. I need you to public confession of it.Starlette (26:19):Someone sent me a dm. I just want to thank you for your work and I completely agree. I quickly turned back around. I said, say it publicly. Get out of my dms. Say it publicly. Put it on your page. Don't congratulate me. Within two minutes or so. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to disturb you. You are right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did he post anything? No. Say it publicly. Denounce them. Come out from among them.Very, very plain. As a white supremacist or na, as a kid, as children. HowDanielle (26:56):Hard is it? I think that's what made this moment so real and it's a kind of a reality. Fresher actually for everybody to be honest, because it's a reality. All certain things have been said. All manner of things have been said by people. This is just one example of many people that have said these things. Not the only person that's lived and died and said these things. And then when you say, Hey, this was said, someone's like, they didn't say that. You're like, no, some people put all their content on the internet receipts. They did it themselves. That's not true. And I went to a prayer vigil. I didn't go. I sat outside a prayer vigil this weekend and I listened in and they were praying for the resurrection like Jesus of certain people that have passed on. I kid you, I sat there in the car with a friend of mine and then my youngest daughter had come with me just to hang out. She's like, what are they praying for? I was like, they're like, they were praying for a certain person to be resurrected from the dead just like Jesus. And I was so confused. I'm so confused how we got that far, honestly. But I told my kid, I said, this is a moment of reality for you. This is a moment to know. People think like this.Starlette (28:13):Also, white bodyDanielle (28:14):Supremacy is heresy. Yes. It's not even related to the Bible. Not at all.Why I steal away. This is why even the mistranslated Bible, even the Bible that you could take,Starlette (28:33):ThisThe version Danielle started. If you wouldn't have said that, I wouldn't have said that. This is exactly why I steal away. This is exactly why I leave. Because you can't argue with people like that. Now we're resurrected. IAll I need, it's like away. This is exactly why, because I can't hear what Howard Thurman calls the sound of the genuine in that. It's just not going to happen.Danielle (29:01):Can you imagine what would've happened if we would've prayed for George Floyd to be resurrected? Listen, what would've happenedStarlette (29:08):That he called the scumbag.Danielle (29:10):Yeah, but what would've happened if we would've played for their resurrection? Adam, Adam Polito. ThatStarlette (29:19):Was foundTamice (29:19):Psychosis.Starlette (29:21):Yeah. What would've happened? See, don't push me now. I feel like I need to pack. As soon as I said fill away, it's like people keep saying, what are you going to do if gets worse? I'm going to leave my, I'll sell all this crapAbout this stuff. This booby trap of capitalism. I'll it all don't about none of it. What matters most to me is my sense of ness. And when you get to talking, I almost said talking out the side of your neck. Jesus God, today, lemme God Jesus of your neck. You just need to know that's a cultural thing. That's going to have to be reevaluated. God. It just came right on out. Oh Lord. When you start saying things that go against my sense of ness that you think that I have to defend my personhood, that you want to tell me that I don't exist as a person. I don't exist as a human. Back to your reality testament. It's time for me to leave. I'm not staying here and fighting a race war or a civil war. You mamas are just violent. It's what you've always been.Tamice (30:28):Why would I stand in the middle? Why would I stand in the middle of what I know is a confrontation with yourself?Starlette (30:36):Oh, okay. Alright. I'm going to justTamice (30:38):You all. What happened last week is it, it is a confrontation with a really disturbed self and they're trying to flip it. Oh yes. They're trying to make it. Yes. But this is like, I'm trying to tell people out here, this is beyond you, Jack, that was a prophetic witness against you because now you see that what you're fighting is the mirror. Keep me out of it. I won't fight your wars. Keep me out of it. Look, James Baldwin said, y'all have to decide and figure out why you needed a nigger in the first place.I'm not a nigger. I'm a man. But you, the white people need to figure out why you created the nigger in the first place. Fuck, this is not my problem. This is a y'all and I don't have anything invested in this. All I'm trying to do is raise my kids, man. Come on. Get out of here with that. I'm sorry.Danielle (31:48):No, you keep going and then go back to starlet. Why do you think then they made her Terry? They had to make sure she doesn't buy into that. That's my opinion.Tamice (32:00):It's funny too because I see, I mean, I wasn't Pentecostal. I feel like who's coming to mind as soon as you said that de y'all know I'm hip hop. Right? So KRS one.Starlette (32:12):Yes. Consciousness.Tamice (32:14):The mind. Oh yes, the mind, the imagination. He was, I mean from day one, trying to embed that in the youth. Like, Hey, the battlefield is the mind. Are you going to internalize this bullshit?Are you going to let them name you?Starlette (32:34):This is the word.Tamice (32:34):Are you going to let them tell you what is real for the people of God? That's That's what I'm saying, man. Hip hop, hip hop's, refusal has been refusal from day one. That's why I trust it.Because in seen it, it came from the bottom of this place. It's from the bottom of your shoe. It tells the truth about all of this. So when I listen to hip hop, I know I'm getting the truth.Starlette (32:57):Yeah. EnemyObjection. What did public enemy say? Can't trust it. Can't trust it. No, no, no, no. You got to play it back. We got to run all that back.Danielle (33:11):I just think how it's so weaponized, the dirt, the bottom of the shoe, all of that stuff. But that's where we actually, that's what got it. Our bodies hitting the road, hitting the pavement, hitting the grass, hitting the dirt. That's how we know we're in reality because we've been forced to in many ways and have a mindset that we are familiar with despite socioeconomic changes. We're familiar with that bottom place.Tamice (33:38):Yeah. I mean, bottom place is where God is at. That's what y'all don't understand. God comes from black, dark dirt, like God is coming from darkness and hiddenness and mystery. You don't love darkness. You don't love GodStarlette (33:56):Talk. Now this bottom place is not to be confused with the sunken place that some of y'all are in. I just want to be clear. I just want to be clear and I'm not coming to get you. Fall was the wrong day. TodayI think it's good though because there's so much intimidation in other communities at times. I'm not saying there's not through the lynchings, ongoing lynchings and violence too and the threats against colleges. But it's good for us to be reminded of our different cultural perspectives and hear people talk with power. Why do you think Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez wrote letters to each other? They knew something about that and knew something about it. They knew something about it. They knew something about why it's important to maintain the bonds. Why we're different, why we're similar. They knew something about it. So I see it as a benefit and a growth in our reality. That is actually what threatens that, that relationship, that bond, that connection, that speaking life into one another. That's what threatens that kingdom that you're talking about. Yeah.You just can't fake an encounter either.When I was tear, no matter what I've decolonized and divested from and decentered, I cannot deny that experience. I know that God was present. I know that God touched me. So when mother even made sister, even made, my grandmother would call me when I was in college, first person to go to college. In our family, she would say before she asked about classes or anything else, and she really didn't know what to ask. She only had a sixth grade education. But her first question was always you yet holding on?Right. She holding on. And I said, yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. Then she would, because it didn't matter if you couldn't keep the faith. There really wasn't nothing else for her to talk to you about. She was going to get ready to evangelize and get you back because you backslid. But that was her first thing. But what I've learned since then is that I can let go.The amazing thing is that the spirit is guiding me. I didn't let go all together. You got it. You got it. If it's real, if you're real, prove it. Demonstrate it. I'm getting chills now talk to me without me saying anything, touch me. I shouldn't have to do anything. Eugene Peterson says that prayer is answering speech. In fact, the only reason why I'm praying is because you said something to me first. It's not really on me to do anything. Even with the tear. I was already touched. I was already called. The reason why I was on my knees and pleading is because I'd already been compelled. Something had had already touched me. FirstThey called Holy Spirit. The hound of heaven. Damn right was already on my heels. I was already filled before I could even refuse. I was like, I don't want this. I'm going to always be star Jonah, get your people. I prefer fish guts. Throw me overboard. I don't like these people. Certified prophet because I don't want to do it. I never want to do it. I'm not interested at all. I have no too much history. I've had to deal with too much white body supremacy and prejudice and racism to want anything to do with the church. I see it for what? It's I'll never join one. By the way, are we recording? Is it on? I'm never joining a church ever. Until you all desegregate.You desegregate. Then we can talk about your ministry of reconciliation. Until then, you don't have one. Don't talk to me about a community day or a pulpit swap. I don't want to hear it. All Your praise. What did he say? A clinging, stumble, put away from me. Your conferences, all your multiracial. I don't want to hear none of it. Desegregate that part desegregate you, hypocrites, woe unto all of you white supremacists. If nobody ever told you that's not God. It's not of God. So I don't, for me, my reality is so above me, I know that Paul, because when I don't want to say anything, somebody is in my ear. Somebody was talking to me this morning. Somebody was writing a note in my ear. I had to get up. I said, please. I'm like, now I'm not even awake all the way. Stop talking to me. You can't fake that as much as I push against the Holy Spirit. You can't fake that. I don't want to do it. I don't want to say it. I'm of saying it. And yet I get up in the morning and it's like, say this, that post that. Write that. Somebody else is doing that. That's not me.As the mothers say, my flesh is weak. My flesh is not willing at all. I want to, all of y'all can go on. I'll pack this up and move somewhere else. Let them fight it to the death. I'm not going to, this is just my flesh speaking. Forgive me. Okay. This Raceless gospel is a calling friends. It's a calling. It's a calling, which means you coming into it. I'm an itinerant prophet. I'm heavy into the Hebrew scriptures. I come up with every excuse. My throat hurts. I got a speech impediment. The people don't like me. I'm not educated. It don't work. You need to know when people come to you and say, y'all need to get together, God speaking to you, the Pendo is coming. That's not like an invitation. That's kind of like a threat whether you want it or not. You're getting together.Everybody up. There's a meal ready, there's a banquet that is set and the food is getting cold and you are the reason why the drinks are watered down. That's go. You don't hear me calling you. ComeWhat I keep hearing. You have to know that God is speaking to people and saying that there's an invitation coming and you better get right. You better get washed up. Tam me said, you better let somebody pour that water over your hands. You better get washed up and get ready for dinner. I'm calling you. Come on in this house. Come on in this house. And this house is for everybody. Martin Luther King called it the world house. Everybody's coming in and you ain't got to like it doesn't matter. Get somewhere and sit down. That's that old church mother coming out of me and lemme just confess. I didn't even want to be on here this morning. I told God I didn't feel like talking. I told the Lord and you see what happened.Promise you. I'm a child. I'm full of disobedience.I was not in the mood. I said, I don't want to talk to nobody. I'm an introvert. I don't want to deal with none of this. Get somebody else to do it and look at it.Tamice (40:39):Yeah. It's funny because I woke up this morning, I was like, I'm not, I forgot. And then after all of the news today, I was like, I just don't have it in you, but this is, wait a minute. And it was three minutes past the time. Come on. And I was like, oh, well shoot. The house is empty. Nobody's here right now. I was like, well, lemme just log on. So this is definitely, it feels like definitely our calling do feel. I feel that way. I don't have time to bullshitSo I can't get out of it. I can't go to bed. I might as well say something. It won't let me go. I cannot do deceit. I can't do it. I can't sit idly by while people lie on God. I can't do that. I can't do it. It won't let up. And I'm trying to get in my body, get in this grass and get a little space. But I'm telling you, it won't let me go. And I feel it's important, Dee, you can't stop doing what you're doing. That's right. I mean is this thing of it is beyond me. It is living out of me. It's coming through me. And there has to be a reason for this. There's got to be a reason for this. And I don't know what it is because I know my eschatology is different, but I feel like, buddy, we got to manifest this kingdom. We have to manifest it until it pushes all that shit back. Come on. I'm telling you. Till it scurries it away or renders it and null and void, I'm talking. I mean, I want the type of light and glory on my being. That wicked logic disintegrate, wicked people drop dead. I mean that just in the Bible. In the Bible where Hert falls, headlong and worms eat em. Y'all celebrate that. Why can't I think about that? It's in your scriptures or daykin and the thing breaks and the legs of this false God break. I want that. I'm here for that. I'm going after that.Danielle (43:14):You think that this is what the definition of Terry is? That we're all Terry serious. I'm rocking the whole time. I'm serious. Right. That's what I told my kids. I said, in one sense, this is a one person of many that thinks this way. So we can't devote all our conversation in our house to this man. And I said in the other sense, because Starlet was asking me before he got here, how you doing? I said, we got up and I took calls from this person and that person and I told my kids, we're still advocating and doing what we can for the neighbors that need papers. And so we're going to continue doing that. That is the right thing to do. No matter what anybody else is doing in the world, we can do this.Tamice (43:56):Yeah, that's a good call. I mean, I'm headed to, I ain't going to say where I'm going no more, but I'm headed somewhere and going to be with people who are doing some innovation, right. Thinking how do we build a different world? How do our skillsets and passions coalesce and become something other than this? So I'm excited about that. And it's like that fire, it doesn't just drive me to want to rebuke. It does drive me to want to rebuild and rethink how we do everything. And I'm willing, I mean, I know that I don't know about y'all, but I feel like this, I'm getting out of dodge, but also I'm seeking the piece of the city. I feel both. I feel like I'm not holding hands with ridiculousness and I'm not moving in foolishness. But also I'm finna seek the piece of the city. My G I'm not running from delusion. Why would I? I'm in the truth. So I don't know how that maps onto a practical life, but we're finna figure it out. Out in it. I mean, the response of leadership to what has happened is a very clear sign where we are in terms of fascism. That's a very clear sign.What else y'all are looking for To tell you what it is.Danielle (45:36):But also we're the leaders. We are, we're the leaders. They're a leader of something, but they're not the leader of us. We're the leaders. We're the leaders. So no matter what they say, no matter what hate they spew, I really love Cesar Chavez. He's like, I still go out and feed the farm worker and I don't make them get on the boycott line because if they're pushed under the dirt, then they can't see hope. So people that have more economic power, a little more privilege than the other guy, we're the leaders. We're the ones that keep showing up in love. And love is a dangerous thing for these folks. They can't understand it. They can't grasp it. It is violent for them to feel love. Bodies actually reject it. And the more we show up, you're innovating. You're speaking Starla, you're preaching. We're the leaders. They're leaders of something. They're not leaders of us. We're leaders of freedom.Tamice (46:31):Come on now. D, we're leaders of give us thisStarlette (46:34):Bomb. We're leaders of compassion. You coming in here with the Holy Ghosts, acting like one of them church mothers. We were in the room together. She put our hand on us. YouDanielle (46:43):We're the ones that can remember Trey. We're the ones that can call for justice. We don't need them to do it. They've never done it. Right. Anyway. They have never showed up for a Mexican kid. They've never showed up for a black kid. They've never done it. Right. Anyway, we're the ones that can do it now. We have access to technology. We have access to our neighbors. We can bring a meal to a friend. We can give dollars to someone that needs gas. We're the the one doing it. We're the one that doing itTamice (47:11):Fill usDanielle (47:12):Up. They cannot take away our love.Starlette (47:15):Receive the benediction.Danielle: Yeah. They can't take it away. I'm telling you, if I saw someone shooting someone I hate, I would try to save that person. I don't own guns. I don't believe in guns, period. My family, that's my personal family's belief.And I would do that. I've thought about it many times. I thought would I do it? And I think I would because I actually believe that. I believe that people should not be shot dead. I believe that for the white kid. I believe that for the Mexican kid. I believe that for the black kid, we're the people that can show up. They're not going to come out here. They're inviting us to different kind of war. We're not in that war. That's right. We have love on our side and you cannot defeat love, kill love. You can'tTamice (48:04):Kill love and you can't kill life. That's the only reason somebody would ask you to be nonviolent. That's the only way somebody would've the audacity to ask that of you. Especially if you're oppressed. If the true is truth is that you can't kill love or life, damn man. It's hard out here for a pimp.Starlette (48:38):Really. Really? Yeah. Because what I really want to say isTamice (49:27):I can't. Your testimony a lie. No. Your testimony. That would be a lie. And like I said, truth telling is important. But there are days where I could be that I could go there, but I witnessed what happened that day. I watched the video. It's just not normal to watch that happen to anybody. And I don't care who you are. And the fact that we're there is just objectively just wow. And the fact that all of the spin and do y'all not realize what just happened? Just as a actual event. Right. What? You know, I'm saying how has this turned into diatribes? Right? We need reform. I, whichDanielle (50:29):Which, okay, so I have to cut us off. I have a client coming, but I want to hear from you, given all the nuance and complexity, how are you going to take care of your body this week or even just today? It doesn't have to be genius. Just one or two things you're going to do. Oh, I'm going toTamice (50:51):Take a nap. Yeah, you taking a nap? Y'all be so proud of me. I literally just said no to five things. I was like, I'm not coming to this. I'm not doing that. I won't be at this. I'm grieving. I'm go sit in the grass. Yeah, that's what I'm doing today. And I have stuff coming up. I'm like, Nope, I'm not available.Starlette (51:14):What about you Danielle? What are you going to do?Danielle (51:16):I'm going to eat scrambled eggs with no salt. I love that. I've grown my liver back so I have to have no salt. But I do love scrambled eggs. Scrambled eggs. That's the truth. Four. Four scrambled eggs.Starlette (51:31):And we thank you for your truth. BIO:The Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a poet, practical theologian, and itinerant prophet for a coming undivided “kin-dom.” She is the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, named for her work and witness and an associate editor at Good Faith Media. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church. Her writings have been featured in Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Free Black Thought, Word & Way, Plough, Baptist News Global and Nurturing Faith Journal among others. She is a frequent guest on podcasts and has her own. The Raceless Gospel podcast takes her listeners to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion, and politics. Starlette is also an activist who bears witness against police brutality and most recently the cultural erasure of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C. It was erected in memory of the 2020 protests that brought the world together through this shared declaration of somebodiness after the gruesome murder of George Perry Floyd, Jr. Her act of resistance caught the attention of the Associated Press. An image of her reclaiming the rubble went viral and in May, she was featured in a CNN article.Starlette has spoken before the World Council of Churches North America and the United Methodist Church's Council of Bishops on the color- coded caste system of race and its abolition. She has also authored and presented papers to the members of the Baptist World Alliance in Zurich, Switzerland and Nassau, Bahamas to this end. She has cast a vision for the future of religion at the National Museum of African American History and Culture's “Forward Conference: Religions Envisioning Change.” Her paper was titled “Press Forward: A Raceless Gospel for Ex- Colored People Who Have Lost Faith in White Supremacy.” She has lectured at The Queen's Foundation in Birmingham, U.K. on a baptismal pedagogy for antiracist theological education, leadership and ministries. Starlette's research interests have been supported by the Louisville Institute and the Lilly Foundation. Examining the work of the Reverend Dr. Clarence Jordan, whose farm turned “demonstration plot” in Americus, Georgia refused to agree to the social arrangements of segregation because of his Christian convictions, Starlette now takes this dirt to the church. Her thesis is titled, “Afraid of Koinonia: How life on this farm reveals the fear of Christian community.” A full circle moment, she was recently invited to write the introduction to Jordan's newest collection of writings, The Inconvenient Gospel: A Southern Prophet Tackles War, Wealth, Race and Religion.Starlette is a member of the Christian Community Development Association, the Peace & Justice Studies Association, and the Koinonia Advisory Council. A womanist in ministry, she has served as a pastor as well as a denominational leader. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette holds degrees from Buffalo State College, Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School and Wesley Theological Seminary. Last year, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Sacred Theology for her work and witness as a public theologian from Wayland Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of "Take Me to the Water": The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church and a contributing author of the book Faith Forward: A Dialogue on Children, Youth & a New Kind of Christianity. Dr. Tamice Spencer - HelmsGod is not a weapon.  Authenticity is not a phase.Meet  Tamice Spencer-Helms (they/she). Tamice is a nonprofit leader, scholar-practitioner, pastor, and theoactivist based in Richmond, Virginia. For decades, Tamice has been guided by a singular purpose: to confront and heal what they call “diseased imagination”—the spiritual and social dis-ease that stifles agency, creativity, and collective flourishing. As a pastor for spiritual fugitives,  Tamice grounds their work at the intersection of social transformation, soulful leadership, womanist and queer liberation theologies, and cultural critique.A recognized voice in theoactivism, Tamice's work bridges the intellectual and the embodied, infusing rigorous scholarship with lived experience and spiritual practice. They hold two master's degrees (theology and leadership) and a doctorate in Social Transformation. Their frameworks, such as R.E.S.T. Mixtape and Soulful Leadership, which are research and evidence-based interventions that invite others into courageous truth-telling, radical belonging, and the kind of liberating leadership our times demand.​Whether facilitating retreats, speaking from the stage, consulting for organizations, or curating digital sanctuaries, Tamice's presence is both refuge and revolution. Their commitment is to help individuals and communities heal, reimagine, and build spaces where every person is seen, known, and liberated—where diseased imagination gives way to new possibilities. Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

(Fremont County)- On the latest County 10 Podcast, Darin Coyle, Riverton chapter lead chair of Hunting with Heroes, joins the show to talk about the upcoming Riverton event, set for September 19–20, 2025. This special weekend is all about providing disabled veterans with the chance to connect, heal, and experience the outdoors. Activities include hunting trips, tours of the National Museum of Military Vehicles, and community gatherings that allow veterans to share stories and build bonds. One of the highlights is the FREE community dinner this Saturday night at the North Portal Firehall, where everyone is invited to come out, enjoy a home-cooked meal, and most importantly, help honor our veterans. Darin also shares moving stories of the impact these events have, like a veteran who, for the first time in years, opened up about his war experiences during a Hunting with Heroes gathering. The community is encouraged to attend, donate, or volunteer to support our local veterans and make this year's event one to remember. Listen to the full conversation with Darin on the County 10 Podcast, and don't miss your chance to be part of this incredible weekend of gratitude and camaraderie.

Julie and Simon join John for a wide-ranging conversation on the latest headlines.They dive into the controversy around Charlie Kirk's recent events, celebrate the first Indigenous New York Fashion Week ever, and discuss President Trump's push to review several Smithsonian museums — starting with the National Museum of the American Indian. Plus, listener calls and thoughts throughout the hour.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

New Yorker magazine poetry editor Kevin Young has called poetry “the most efficient mode of time travel.” In his new volume of poems “Night Watch,” Young, a literary hyphenate who edits, writes and teaches, takes readers on a journey of loss and re-emergence. From his cycle of poems about a conjoined pair of twins born into slavery and kidnapped to a carnival freak show to his meditations on grief set to the phases of the moon, Young's spare and incisive language provides the reader passage through history and memory. We talk to Young about his collection and what it means to be a poet today. Guests: Kevin Young, poet and author; poetry editor, The New Yorker; former director of the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

W. Richard West Jr.. my guest on the podcast is the Founding Director of the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian .A citizen of the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes and a member of the Society of Southern Cheyenne Peace Chiefs, first among equals of the warrior societies among the Cheyenne and central to the governing of the nation on the Council of 44. Where he follows on the paths trod by the great Black Kettle, Dull Knife (aka Morning Star), Lean Bear, Little Wolf and Porcupine, among many others.Richard West was appointed to be the founding director of the National Museum of the American Indian in 1990. He was formally named to the position on May 21, 1990. Following his retirement from the Smithsonian he was asked, and accepted, a role as CEO of the Autry Museum of the American West. A role that certainly challenged Rick to bust a lot of myths and lead him to be acclaimed as a leader who "helped shift the love-hate dynamic between Indigenous people and museums"Though he is modest about this, sharing the credit among his colleagues, Rich was a major force at both the Smithsonian and Autry for steering the mission of the modern museum to a space of collaboration, education, community building and mutual understanding.

On this Friends Like Us, I talk with both Erica Switzer and Nnenna Freelon about the improvisation of grief. Experience the powerful stories behind Nnenna Freelon's album "Beneath The Skin" and her upcoming book "Beneath The Skin Of Sorrow." Pre-order the book now and get the album today! Don't miss out on these soulful insights into art and grief.  Nnenna Freelon is a celebrated jazz vocalist, composer, producer, author and host of the award-winning podcast Great Grief with Nnenna Freelon. A seven-time Grammy® Award nominee, Freelon is a member of the North Carolina Music Hall of Fame. She has released over twelve solo albums, most recently, Beneath the Skin on Origin Records. She toured with Ray Charles. She performed at the inauguration of President George W. Bush in January 2001. In November 2011, The White House, under the leadership of President Barack Obama, asked Freelon to headline the Asia Pacific Economic Summit for 300 Presidents, Premiers, and Heads of State from around the world.  Dr. Maya Angelou was an admirer of her voice.  Married to Phillip Freelon, the lead architect for the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of African American History. Nnenna's book-  preorder it  now! : officially Oct. 21, is the companion piece to her lauded spring 2025 album ‘Beneath the Skin' (Origin Records), Beneath the Skin of Sorrow, is a new collection of essays, poems, lyrics, revelations, and explorations of jazz, shaped by Freelon's personal experiences with grief. It's also a love letter—to Phil, to her sister, and to anyone learning to live with loss. Erica Switzer: Chicagoland's Erica Switzer is a rising stand-up comedian; think “Your bougie jet-set auntie who twerks to NPR.” Since 2021, she has produced Fear Of A Black Cat Comedy, a platform highlighting diverse comedic talent. A 2020 Flappers Comedy Club Soup-or-Bowl winner, she has performed at major festivals such as the World Series of Comedy, Black Women in Comedy Laff Fest, and Burbank Comedy Festival's Best of Fest. Always hosted by Marina Franklin - One Hour Comedy Special: Single Black Female ( Amazon Prime, CW Network), TBS's The Last O.G, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, Hysterical on FX, The Movie Trainwreck, Louie Season V, The Jim Gaffigan Show, Conan O'Brien, Stephen Colbert, HBO's Crashing, and The Breaks with Michelle Wolf. Writer for HBO's 'Divorce' and the new Tracy Morgan show on Paramount Plus: 'Crutch'.    

All over the world, for all of human history – and probably going back to our earliest hominid ancestors – people have found ways to try to keep themselves clean. But how did soap come about? Research: “Soap, N. (1), Etymology.” Oxford English Dictionary, Oxford UP, June 2025, https://doi.org/10.1093/OED/1115187665. American Cleaning Institute. “Soaps & Detergents History.” https://www.cleaninginstitute.org/understanding-products/why-clean/soaps-detergents-history Beckmann, John. “History of Inventions, Discoveries and Origins.” William Johnston, translator. Bosart, L.W. “The Early History of the Soap Industry.” The American Oil Chemists' Society. Journal of Oil & Fat Industries 1924-10: Vol 1 Iss 2. Cassidy, Cody. “Who Discovered Soap? What to Know About the Origins of the Life-Saving Substance.” Time. 5/5/2020. https://time.com/5831828/soap-origins/ Ciftyurek, Muge, and Kasim Ince. "Selahattin Okten Soap Factory in Antakya and an Evaluation on Soap Factory Plan Typology/Antakya'da Bulunan Selahattin Okten Sabunhanesi ve Sabunhane Plan Tipolojisi Uzerine Bir Degerlendirme." Art-Sanat, no. 19, Jan. 2023, pp. 133+. Gale Academic OneFile, dx.doi.org/10.26650/artsanat.2023.19.1106544. Accessed 18 Aug. 2025. Costa, Albert B. “Michel-Eugène Chevreul.” Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Michel-Eugene-Chevreul Curtis, Valerie A. “Dirt, disgust and disease: a natural history of hygiene.” Journal of epidemiology and community health vol. 61,8 (2007): 660-4. doi:10.1136/jech.2007.062380 Dijkstra, Albert J. “How Chevreul (1786-1889) based his conclusions on his analytical results.” OCL. Vol. 16, No. 1. January-February 2009. Gibbs, F.W. “The History and Manufacture of Soap.” Annals of Science. 1939. Koeppel, Dan. “The History of Soap.” 4/15/2020. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/history-of-soap/ List, Gary, and Michael Jackson. “Giants of the Past: The Battle Over Hydrogenation (1903-1920).” https://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publication/?seqNo115=210614 Maniatis, George C. “Guild Organized Soap Manufacturing Industry in Constantinople: Tenth-Twelfth Centuries.” Byzantion, 2010, Vol. 80 (2010). https://www.jstor.org/stable/44173107 National Museum of American History. “Bathing (Body Soaps and Cleansers).” https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object-groups/health-hygiene-and-beauty/bathing-body-soaps-and-cleansers New Mexico Historic Sites. “Making Soap from the Leaves of the Soaptree Yucca.” https://nmhistoricsites.org/assets/files/selden/Virtual%20Classroom_Soaptree%20Yucca%20Soap%20Making.pdf “The history of soapmaking.” 8/30/2019. https://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/history/history-science-technology-and-medicine/history-science/the-history-soapmaking Pliny the Elder. “The Natural History of Pliny. Translated, With Copious Notes and Illustrations.” Vol. 5. John Bostock, translator. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/60688/60688-h/60688-h.htm Pointer, Sally. “An Experimental Exploration of the Earliest Soapmaking.” EXARC Journal. 2024/3. 8/22/2024. https://exarc.net/issue-2024-3/at/experimental-exploration-earliest-soapmaking Ridner, Judith. “The dirty history of soap.” The Conversation. 5/12/2020. https://theconversation.com/the-dirty-history-of-soap-136434 Routh, Hirak Behari et al. “Soaps: From the Phoenicians to the 20th Century - A Historical Review.” Clinics in Dermatology. Vol. No. 3. 1996. Smith, Cyril Stanley, and John G. Hawthorne. “Mappae Clavicula: A Little Key to the World of Medieval Techniques.” Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, vol. 64, no. 4, 1974, pp. 1–128. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/1006317. Accessed 18 Aug. 2025. Timilsena, Yakindra Prasad et al. “Perspectives on Saponins: Food Functionality and Applications.” International journal of molecular sciences vol. 24,17 13538. 31 Aug. 2023, doi:10.3390/ijms241713538 “Craftsmanship of Aleppo Ghar soap.” https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/craftsmanship-of-aleppo-ghar-soap-02132 “Tradition of Nabulsi soap making in Palestine.” https://ich.unesco.org/en/RL/tradition-of-nabulsi-soap-making-in-palestine-02112 “Soaps.” https://www.fs.usda.gov/wildflowers/ethnobotany/soaps.shtml van Dijk, Kees. “Soap is the onset of civilization.” From Cleanliness and Culture. Kees van Dijk and Jean Gelman Taylor, eds. Brill. 2011. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1163/j.ctvbnm4n9.4 Wei, Huang. “The Sordid, Sudsy Rise of Soap in China.” Sixth Tone. 8/11/2020. https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1006041 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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In this episode, Fred Lawrence speaks with Tammy L. Kernodle, University Distinguished Professor in the Department of Music at Miami University, whose work explores African American music, gender, and race in American popular culture. Kernodle shares how her working-class upbringing in Danville, Virginia, and a home filled with music led her to Virginia State University, graduate studies at The Ohio State University, and a career dedicated to expanding the narratives taught in music history. She discusses her mission to change classroom conversations, create scholarships for underrepresented musicians, and broaden what audiences hear in the concert hall. She also reflects on her roles as curator of the New World Symphony's I Dream a World Festival and her work on the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture.

If we need proof that textiles can rewrite human history, then it lies with the bog bodies of northern Europe. Textile archaeologists are revealing a whole new past about people who, in some cases, are older than Tutankhamen, but much less celebrated. Across northern Europe there are hundreds of bog bodies, who long ago were buried in marshlands and were preserved down the centuries by acidic conditions and lack of oxygen. We will never know all their secrets, but slowly we are discovering more about who they were, and how they lived. It is their textiles that bring us closer to them and tell us, not just about their skills, but also how they thought and designed cloth and clothing.    In Denmark more than a hundred marsh bodies have been found - some in extraordinary states of preservation. They date from the late Bronze and early Iron Ages, and are between 1,500 and 3,000 years old. But what some of them are wearing can take us back much further than that, into a time when humans first started to cover their bodies with clothing. For this episode, Jo travelled to the National Museum of Denmark, in Copenhagen, to explore the textiles of two of the world's most famous bog bodies.   For more information about this episode and pictures of the people and places mentioned in this episode please go to https://hapticandhue.com/tales-of-textiles-series-7/.   And if you would like to find out about Friends of Haptic & Hue with an extra podcast every month hosted by Jo Andrews and Bill Taylor – here's the link: https://hapticandhue.com/join/

Dreaming of a city escape that blends world-famous architecture, lakefront beauty, rich history, and dynamic culture? Chicago has it all. From iconic skyscrapers to hidden neighborhood gems, this episode will change the way you see the Windy City.Today host Angie Orth welcomes Kit Bernardi, a Chicago native and travel journalist, on the rooftop of the Virgin Hotel in Chicago. She'll reveal the stories and experiences that make her hometown shine, from the Great Fire that reshaped the city to the immigrant roots that continue to define it. Kit shares insider insights that go far beyond the guidebooks.You'll hear about the best ways to see Chicago's legendary skyline, when to hit the lakefront for outdoor adventures, where to explore can't-miss museums and theaters, and how to begin a Route 66 journey. Whether you're planning your first trip or a repeat visit, this episode is packed with tips that will help you experience Chicago like a local.What You'll Learn:05:32 How the Great Chicago Fire reshaped the city12:27 Must-see museums and surprising niche gems15:49 Chicago's thriving theater scene17:53 Sports culture and the “no ketchup” hot dog rule19:23 Starting Route 66 the classic wayConnect with Kit Bernardi:Website: https://kittravels.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kitbernardi/More of Kit's Chicago Recommendations: Neighborhoods to Visit: Hyde Park, Oak Park, Pilsen Attractions: Chicago Cultural Center, Chicago Sports Museum, National Museum of Mexican Art, DuSable Black History Museum and Education Center, The American Writers Museum, Chicago History Museum, Jane Addams Hull House Museum CTA: What's your favorite must-see in Chicago? Tell us about it in the comments! Connect with AAA:Book travel: https://aaa-text.co/travelingwithaaa LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aaa-auto-club-enterprisesInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/AAAAutoClubEnterprisesFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/AAAAutoClubEnterprises

An appeals court has rejected President Donald Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport Venezuelans.Military strikes killed 11 on an alleged 'drug vessel' from Venezuela.USA TODAY White House Correspondent Bart Jansen breaks down a judge's move blocking President Trump's deployment of the National Guard in California. Plus, Illinois responds to Trump's troop plans.The House Oversight Committee released thousands of pages of documents from the government's investigation of Jeffrey Epstein.USA TODAY First Amendment Reporting Fellow BrieAnna Frank talks about her reporting trips to Smithsonian museums amid Trump criticisms that they're too woke.*This audio was corrected to reflect that the National Museum of African American History and Culture opened in 2016.Please let us know what you think of this episode by sending a note to podcasts@usatoday.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

"What you want is never going to be the way you envisioned it." "Dreams don't always happen overnight, but if you keep plugging away, they do come true." I wanted to be Bo Jackson, but instead—I built my dream studio. Today, Freddy Cruz shows us how perseverance can turn detours into destinies. In this engaging episode of Better Call Daddy, hosts Reena Friedman Watts and Wayne Friedman welcome Freddy Cruz, a dynamic radio veteran turned podcast host, who shares his journey of creating a new reality in the world of audio storytelling. Freddy opens up about his entrepreneurial spirit and how he visualized his dream studio long before it became a reality. He discusses the importance of perseverance, hard work, and the unexpected paths that lead to success, emphasizing that dreams don't always materialize overnight but can come true with dedication and effort. Listeners will be captivated by Freddy's insights into the podcasting landscape, his evolution from radio to producing podcasts, and the creative processes behind his writing. He reflects on his experiences with self-publishing and the challenges he faced along the way, including the emotional toll of losing an editor during a critical project. Throughout the episode, Freddy shares heartfelt anecdotes about his family, his passion for storytelling, and the lessons he imparts to his children about hard work and resilience. With humor and authenticity, this conversation serves as a reminder that life's journey is filled with peaks and valleys, and the key to success lies in embracing each moment. Join us for an inspiring discussion that encourages listeners to pursue their passions, navigate the complexities of entrepreneurship, and find joy in the creative process. Don't miss this thought-provoking episode that might just spark your own journey of self-discovery! (00:00) Reena Friedman Watts: Better Call Daddy is back with more daddy drama (01:30) Freddy Cruz hosts podcasts in studio and in person (02:03) The building where Speke podcasting is located was originally outfitted for only medical (06:44) How in the world did your books come to you (09:43) The book explores just how depraved people can be (13:06) How did you decide to self publish your first three novels (17:51) There was a secession movement in California years ago (19:50) How did you get involved with the animal community? So Zeke is your first dog (22:54) How can you tell if a dog is going to be a good match (27:02) Houston is a big city, but it's also a small town (31:46) How did you land the radio job? Yeah, uh, talk about that (35:53) Freddy says he never made any mistakes editing clients podcasts (40:32) Some of your best opportunities came from working shifts that other people wouldn't (44:03) How have you tried to show your kids that you can create opportunities (46:21) What are you proud of your kids for? I'm proud that they're not on social media (51:27) Is there anything that you've learned from your dad that you would like to share (53:55) Night of the Living Pod is scheduled for October at the National Museum of Funeral History (55:36) Freddy Cruz is putting his lifelong dream of being on television into action (01:00:17) How important is going to college versus having a trade or on the job Connect with Freddy: https://www.spekepodcasting.com/ Connect with Reena: https://bettercalldaddy.com https://linkedin.com/in/reenafriedmanwatts https://instagram.com/reenafriedmanwatts https://www.youtube.com/c/bettercalldaddy Thank you for tuning in to Better Call Daddy—where wisdom and heart meet.

Jayne Kennedy is an American actress, model, sportscaster, and author whose groundbreaking career spans entertainment, sports journalism, and fitness. In 1970, she made history as the first African American woman to be crowned Miss Ohio USA. She began her career as a dancer on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In and soon found success as a model, appearing on the covers of Jet and Ebony. Her acting career grew steadily in the 1970s with roles on television shows such as Ironside, Sanford and Son, and The Six Million Dollar Man. In 1978, Kennedy broke new ground in sports broadcasting when she joined CBS's The NFL Today. As one of the first women—and the first African American woman—to serve as a sportscaster on a major national sports program.  Her performance in the 1981 film Body and Soul earned her the NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Actress in a Motion Picture. Kennedy's resilience and personal journey are chronicled in her memoir, Plain Jayne (2025), which explores her experiences in breaking barriers and navigating challenges in Hollywood, broadcasting, and beyond. She has since been recognized by the National Museum of African American History and Culture for her trailblazing career. Jayne Kennedy's Website Here Order Jayne's Book Here Jayne Kennedy's Signature Fragrances  Jayne's Instagram Page ______________________________ Follow me on my Instagram or Facebook Podcast Facebook page here Check out KristiCapel.com Email: Kristicapelpodcast@gmail.com  

Greg and Ed discuss a much neglected topic in Bangkok expat life: how to survive as someone who doesn't drink alcohol. Everyone knows that Bangkok has an epic nightlife, but much of that experience revolves around alcohol consumption. The guys discuss the option of going to the usual places and merely opting out of drink, but they also admit that for some people that is socially awkward and can put a damper on the evening. So what about events that themselves are not based around alcohol? Well, both guys offer multiple suggestions. First, sports activities that are social by nature but NOT directly tied to booze. Popular options today are padel and pickle ball. Second, the broader wellness community that includes yoga, meditation, and cold plunges offer great opportunities to meet people and not drink. Third, the guys recommend other hobbies that while they may not ban alcohol, they are not centered around it. Chess, board games, and martial arts all come to mind.  Another option is to focus on the community of expats that are into Thai history and culture, such as those involved in the Siam Society and the National Museum. While social gatherings may include cocktail options, opting out is much easier among that crew. Greg and Ed fully support the avoidance of alcohol - it's obviously not healthy and peer pressure itself is toxic. The good news is that Bangkok is big and diverse enough that there are plenty of options out there for those willing to check out new things.  Don't forget that Patrons get the ad-free version of the show as well as swag and other perks. We also sometimes post on Facebook, you can contact us on LINE and of course, head to our website (www.bangkokpodcast.com) to find out probably more info than you need to know.

In the finale of our series on The Donner Party, rescue groups head off for Truckee Lake and Alder Creek, hoping to save as many survivors as they could. For many members of The Donner Party, the rescue crews came too late. Some had died. Others were too depleted to make the journey back to safety. Ultimately, of the 87 members of The Donner Party, 41 died. The survivors did their best to lead normal lives, but many of them struggled. They carried unspeakable trauma. They were judged. They faced prying questions. Through it all, they tried their best to settle in to the place they'd fought so hard to call home. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Indifferent Stars Above: The Harrowing Saga of a Donner Party Bride,” by Daniel James Brown “The Best Land Under Heaven: The Donner Party in the Age of Manifest Destiny,” by Michael Wallis The documentary, “The Donner Party” “How the Donner Party was doomed by a disastrous shortcut,” by Erin Blakemore for History.com “Lansford Hastings, the Donner Party, and the Civil War,” by Elizabeth Eisenstark for the National Museum of Civil War Medicine “The deadly temptation of the Oregon Trail shortcut,” by Laura Kiniry for atlasobscura.com “Refurbished Castro-Breen Adobe offers visitors a glimpse into state history,” Gilroy Dispatch “Lansford Hastings, the Donner Party, and the Civil War,” National Museum of Civil War Medicine Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court.

Dana Shoaf and Melissa Winn came into the studio to talk about the National Museum of Civil War Medicine and Civil War medicine in general.   Check out the museum on your next trip to the area https://www.civilwarmed.org/

Children say it every day in school, but have you ever wondered why we recite the pledge of allegiance? We journey back to the late 1800s to understand how a massive wave of immigration and sagging magazine subscriptions gave rise to this vow of patriotism. From the Civil War to anti-immigrant nativism and Cold War politics, this one pledge tells many stories. Guests: Debbie Schaefer-Jacobs, curator for the history of education collection at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American HistoryMarc Leepson, author of Flag: An American Biography

By the winter of 1846, the Donner Party found themselves in the exact scenario they'd been dreading. They were trapped in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, pummeled by snowstorms. Their food supply dwindled. They knew that if they stayed put, they'd all be doomed. So, a group of men, women, and children set off to get help. They thought their journey would last six days. They thought wrong. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Indifferent Stars Above: The Harrowing Saga of a Donner Party Bride,” by Daniel James Brown “The Best Land Under Heaven: The Donner Party in the Age of Manifest Destiny,” by Michael Wallis The documentary, “The Donner Party” “How the Donner Party was doomed by a disastrous shortcut,” by Erin Blakemore for History.com “Lansford Hastings, the Donner Party, and the Civil War,” by Elizabeth Eisenstark for the National Museum of Civil War Medicine “The deadly temptation of the Oregon Trail shortcut,” by Laura Kiniry for atlasobscura.com Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court.

By the time they realized what they'd done, it was too late. Hastings Cutoff turned out to not be much of a cutoff at all. In fact, it was more time consuming and taxing than the regular California Trail. As a result, members of the Donner Party grew hungry. They grew thirsty. Their oxen, horses and dogs suffered. Some died. Some ran away. They ran low on time. People snapped at one another. The group knew that they'd have to do something desperate to survive. So, they sent a few men ahead. They prayed the men would come back with help – before it was too late. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Indifferent Stars Above: The Harrowing Saga of a Donner Party Bride,” by Daniel James Brown “The Best Land Under Heaven: The Donner Party in the Age of Manifest Destiny,” by Michael Wallis The documentary, “The Donner Party” “How the Donner Party was doomed by a disastrous shortcut,” by Erin Blakemore for History.com “Lansford Hastings, the Donner Party, and the Civil War,” by Elizabeth Eisenstark for the National Museum of Civil War Medicine “The deadly temptation of the Oregon Trail shortcut,” by Laura Kiniry for atlasobscura.com Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you'll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90's style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court.

Polymath Anna Maria van Schurman was a very well-educated woman in the 17th century, making her exceptional. She’s described as the most learned woman of her time, and she basically became a celebrity because of it. Research: Aldersey-Williams, Hugh. “’A Truer and Deeper Knowledge’: Anna Maria van Schurman’s The Learned Maid (1659).” Public Domain Review. https://publicdomainreview.org/collection/the-learned-maid/ "Anna Maria van Schurman." Encyclopedia of World Biography Online, vol. 31, Gale, 2011. Gale In Context: Opposing Viewpoints, link.gale.com/apps/doc/K1631009647/GPS?u=mlin_n_melpub&sid=bookmark-GPS&xid=cdba4228. Accessed 21 July 2025. “Anna Maria van Schurman: an academic multitalent.” Utrecht University. https://www.uu.nl/en/background/anna-maria-van-schurman-an-academic-multitalent Clarke, Desmond M. “Anna Maria Van Schurman and Women’s Education.” Revue Philosophique de la France et de l'Étranger. No. 3. July-September 2013. Via JSTOR. https://www.jstor.org/stable/42773326 de Baar, Mirjam. “Elisabeth of Bohemia’s Lifelong Friendship with Anna Maria van Schurman (1607–1678).” From Elisabeth of Bohemia (1618–1680): A Philosopher in her Historical Context, Women in the History of Philosophy and Sciences 9. S. Ebbersmeyer and S. Hutton (eds.). https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-030-71527-4_2 de Baar, Mirjam. “SCHURMAN, Anna Maria van.” Online Dictionary of Dutch Women. https://resources.huygens.knaw.nl/vrouwenlexicon/lemmata/data/Schurman,%20Anna%20Maria%20van/en 1/13/2014. Dekker, Maryse. “Anna Maria van Schurman: Brains, Arts and Feminist avant la letter.” Art Herstory. 2/23/2021. https://artherstory.net/anna-maria-van-schurman-artist-scholar-and-woman-of-letters/ Larsen, Anne R. “A Women's Republic of Letters: Anna Maria van Schurman, Marie de Gournay, and Female Self-Representation in Relation to the Public Sphere.” Early Modern Women, Fall 2008, Vol. 3 (Fall 2008). Via JSTOR. https://www.jstor.org/stable/23541520 Larsen, Anne R. “Religious Alterity.” French Forum, FALL 2018, Vol. 43, No. 2. Via JSTOR. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2307/26762079 National Museum of Women in the Arts. “Anna Maria van Schurman.” https://nmwa.org/art/artists/anna-maria-van-schurman/ National Museum of Women in the Arts. “Anna Maria van Schurman: Self-Portrait.” https://nmwa.org/art/collection/schurman-self-portrait/ Pal, Carol. “Chapter 2 - Anna Maria van Schurman: the birth of an intellectual network.” From Republic of Women: Rethinking the Republic of Letters in the Seventeenth Century.” Cambridge University Press. 2012. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9781139087490.005 Project Vox. “Van Schurman (1607-1678).” https://projectvox.org/van-schurman-1607-1678/ Sint Nicolaas, Samantha. “The Correspondence of Anna Maria van Schurman.” Early Modern Letters Online. http://emlo-portal.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/collections/?catalogue=anna-maria-van-schurman The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica. "Jean de Labadie". Encyclopedia Britannica, 9 Feb. 2025, https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jean-de-Labadie. Accessed 25 July 2025. Van Beek, Pieta. “The first female university student: Anna Maria van Schurman (1636).” Igitur. Utrecht Publishing & Archiving Services. 2010. Van der Stighelen, Katlijne. “Chapter Title: Anna Francisca de Bruyns (1604/5–1656), Artist, Wife and Mother: a Contextual Approach to Her Forgotten Artistic Career.” From Women and Gender in the Early Modern Low Countries. Via JSTOR. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1163/j.ctvrxk3hp.12 Weststeijn, Thijs. “Anna Maria Van Schurman’s Chinese Calligraphy.” Early Modern Low Countries 7 (2023) 1, pp. 1-25 - eISSN: 2543-1587. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Smithsonian Institution has recently been called out by the Trump Administration for pushing "one-sided, divisive political narratives." But American history isn't the only domain in which the Smithsonian is advancing misinformation. The National Museum of Natural History's Hall of Human Origins vastly distorts the scientific evidence on human evolution, seeking to convince visitors that there's nothing special about us as human beings. On today's ID The Future, host Andrew McDiarmid talks to attorney and geologist Dr. Casey Luskin to dissect his explosive new editorial in the New York Post calling on the Smithsonian Museum to stop "miseducating the public" on the history of human beings. Source

Val Plumwood was an Australian philosopher, environmental activist and crocodile attack survivor. During a 1985 trip to Kakadu National park, Val was attacked repeatedly by a crocodile but miraculously survived. The experience completely reshaped her life and her perspective of her role within it. Sources: Book: The Eye of the Crocodile  Documentaries: Kakadu: Land of the Crocodile  Articles: The Guardian, National Museum of Australia, Websites: Val Plumwood,  Remembering Val Plumwood, Kakadu National Park, Sightseeing Tours Australia, PBS For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodes For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at: Instagram: @nationalparkafterdark TikTok: @nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week's partners! Smalls: For a limited time only, get 60% off your first order PLUS free shipping when you head to Smalls.com/npad. Pagagen: For 15% off your order and a special gift, head to Pacagen.com/NPAD and use code NPAD. BetterHelp: National Park After Dark is sponsored by BetterHelp. Get 10% off. Hello Fresh: Use our link to get up to 10 FREE meals and a free item for life.

She's stunning grey, sleek as a race car, and stronger than all the boys. Her name is Winning Colors and for Dino and Miami she's the long shot of a lifetime.This story contains strong language and includes descriptions of gambling, sensitive listeners please be advised.If gambling has become a problem for you or for someone you know, you can call 1-800-GAMBLER (426-2537) to seek free, confidential, 24/7 problem gambling assistance.A huge thank you to Mark “Miami” Paul for sharing his story with Snap!Wondering what happened to Winning Colors? After her 1988 Kentucky Derby crown the big grey filly retired the following year with eight career wins. In 2000, she was inducted into the U.S. National Museum of Racing and Hall of Fame. In 2008, at the age of 23 Winning Colors was laid to rest in Lexington, Kentucky.To find out more about Miami and Winning Colors' story – check out Miami's book, “The Greatest Gambling Story Ever Told” Produced by Bo Walsh, original score by Renzo Gorrio, artwork by Teo Ducot.Snap Classic – Season 16– Episode 32 Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices