Podcasts about UI

BONUS: The Operating System for Software-Native Organizations - The Five Core Principles In this BONUS episode, the final installment of our Special Xmas 2025 reflection on Software-native businesses, we explore the five fundamental principles that form the operating system for software-native organizations. Building on the previous four episodes, this conversation provides the blueprint for building organizations that can adapt at the speed of modern business demands, where the average company lifespan on the S&P 500 has dropped from 33 years in the 1960s to a projected 12 years by 2027. The Challenge of Adaptation "What we're observing in Ukraine is adaptation happening at a speed that would have been unthinkable in traditional military contexts - new drone capabilities emerge, countermeasures appear within days, and those get countered within weeks." The opening draws a powerful parallel between the rapid adaptation we're witnessing in drone warfare and the existential threats facing modern businesses. While our businesses aren't facing literal warfare, they are confronting dramatic disruption. Clayton Christensen documented this in "The Innovator's Dilemma," but what he observed in the 1970s and 80s is happening exponentially faster now, with software as the accelerant. If we can improve businesses' chances of survival even by 10-15%, we're talking about thousands of companies that could thrive instead of fail, millions of jobs preserved, and enormous value created. The central question becomes: how do you build an organization that can adapt at this speed? Principle 1: Constant Experimentation with Tight Feedback Loops "Everything becomes an experiment. Not in the sense of being reckless or uncommitted, but in being clear about what we're testing and what we expect to learn. I call this: work like a scientist: learning is the goal." Software developers have practiced this for decades through Test-Driven Development, but now this TDD mindset is becoming the ruling metaphor for managing products and entire businesses. The practice involves framing every initiative with three clear elements: the goal (what are we trying to achieve?), the action (what specific thing will we do?), and the learning (what will we measure to know if it worked?). When a client says "we need to improve our retrospectives," software-native organizations don't just implement a new format. Instead, they connect it to business value - improving the NPS score for users of a specific feature by running focused retrospectives that explicitly target user pain points and tracking both the improvements implemented and the actual NPS impact. After two weeks, you know whether it worked. The experiment mindset means you're always learning, never stuck. This is TDD applied to organizational change, and it's powerful because every process change connects directly to customer outcomes. Principle 2: Clear Connection to Business Value "Software-native organizations don't measure success by tasks completed, story points delivered, or features shipped. Or even cycle time or throughput. They measure success by business outcomes achieved." While this seems obvious, most organizations still optimize for output, not outcomes. The practice uses Impact Mapping or similar outcome-focused frameworks where every initiative answers three questions: What business behavior are we trying to change? How will we measure that change? What's the minimum software needed to create that change? A financial services client wanted to "modernize their reporting system" - a 12-month initiative with dozens of features in project terms. Reframed through a business value lens, the goal became reducing time analysts spend preparing monthly reports from 80 hours to 20 hours, measured by tracking actual analyst time, starting with automating just the three most time-consuming report components. The first delivery reduced time to 50 hours - not perfect, but 30 hours saved, with clear learning about which parts of reporting actually mattered. The organization wasn't trying to fulfill requirements; they were laser focused on the business value that actually mattered. When you're connected to business value, you can adapt. When you're committed to a feature list, you're stuck. Principle 3: Software as Value Amplifier "Software isn't just 'something we do' or a support function. Software is an amplifier of your business model. If your business model generates $X of value per customer through manual processes, software should help you generate $10X or more." Before investing in software, ask whether this can amplify your business model by 10x or more - not 10% improvement, but 10x. That's the threshold where software's unique properties (zero marginal cost, infinite scale, instant distribution) actually matter, and where the cost/value curve starts to invert. Remember: software is still the slowest and most expensive way to check if a feature would deliver value, so you better have a 10x or more expectation of return. Stripe exemplifies this principle perfectly. Before Stripe, accepting payments online required a merchant account (weeks to set up), integration with payment gateways (months of development), and PCI compliance (expensive and complex). Stripe reduced that to adding seven lines of code - not 10% easier, but 100x easier. This enabled an entire generation of internet businesses that couldn't have existed otherwise: subscription services, marketplaces, on-demand platforms. That's software as amplifier. It didn't optimize the old model; it made new models possible. If your software initiatives are about 5-10% improvements, ask yourself: is software the right medium for this problem, or should you focus where software can create genuine amplification? Principle 4: Software as Strategic Advantage "Software-native organizations use software for strategic advantage and competitive differentiation, not just optimization, automation, or cost reduction. This means treating software development as part of your very strategy, not a way to implement a strategy that is separate from the software." This concept, discussed with Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel on the podcast as "continuous strategy," means that instead of creating a strategy every few years and deploying it like a project, strategy and execution are continuously intertwined when it comes to software delivery. The practice involves organizing around competitive capabilities that software uniquely enables by asking: How can software 10x the value we generate right now? What can we do with software that competitors can't easily replicate? Where does software create a defensible advantage? How does our software create compounding value over time? Amazon Web Services didn't start as a product strategy but emerged from Amazon building internal capabilities to run their e-commerce platform at scale. They realized they'd built infrastructure that was extremely hard to replicate and asked: "What if we offered it to others?" AWS became Amazon's most profitable business - not because they optimized their existing retail business, but because they turned an internal capability into a strategic platform. The software wasn't supporting the strategy - the software became the strategy. Compare this to companies that use software just for cost reduction or process optimization - they're playing defense. Software-native companies use software to play offense, creating capabilities that change the competitive landscape. Continuous strategy means your software capabilities and your business strategy evolve together, in real-time, not in annual planning cycles. Principle 5: Real-Time Observability and Adaptive Systems "Software-native organizations use telemetry and real-time analytics not just to understand their software, but to understand their entire business and adapt dynamically. Observability practices from DevOps are actually ways of managing software delivery itself. We're bootstrapping our own operating system for software businesses." This principle connects back to Principle 1 but takes it to the organizational level. The practice involves building systems that constantly sense what's happening and can adapt in real-time: deploy with feature flags so you can turn capabilities on/off instantly, use A/B testing not just for UI tweaks but for business model experiments, instrument everything so you know how users actually behave, and build feedback loops that let the system respond automatically. Social media companies and algorithmic trading firms already operate this way. Instagram doesn't deploy a new feed algorithm and wait six months to see if it works - they're constantly testing variations, measuring engagement in real-time, adapting the algorithm continuously. The system is sensing and responding every second. High-frequency trading firms make thousands of micro-adjustments per day based on market signals. Imagine applying this to all businesses: a retail company that adjusts pricing, inventory, and promotions in real-time based on demand signals; a healthcare system that dynamically reallocates resources based on patient flow patterns; a logistics company whose routing algorithms adapt to traffic, weather, and delivery success rates continuously. This is the future of software-native organizations - not just fast decision-making, but systems that sense and adapt at software speed, with humans setting goals and constraints but software executing continuous optimization. We're moving from "make a decision, deploy it, wait to see results" to "deploy multiple variants, measure continuously, let the system learn." This closes the loop back to Principle 1 - everything is an experiment, but now the experiments run automatically at scale with near real-time signal collection and decision making. It's Experiments All The Way Down "We established that software has become societal infrastructure. That software is different - it's not a construction project with a fixed endpoint; it's a living capability that evolves with the business." This five-episode series has built a complete picture: Episode 1 established that software is societal infrastructure and fundamentally different from traditional construction. Episode 2 diagnosed the problem - project management thinking treats software like building a bridge, creating cascade failures throughout organizations. Episode 3 showed that solutions already exist, with organizations like Spotify, Amazon, and Etsy practicing software-native development successfully. Episode 4 exposed the organizational immune system - the four barriers preventing transformation: the project mindset, funding models, business/IT separation, and risk management theater. Today's episode provides the blueprint - the five principles forming the operating system for software-native organizations. This isn't theory. This is how software-native organizations already operate. The question isn't whether this works - we know it does. The question is: how do you get started? The Next Step In Building A Software-Native Organization "This is how transformation starts - not with grand pronouncements or massive reorganizations, but with conversations and small experiments that compound over time. Software is too important to society to keep managing it wrong." Start this week by doing two things.  First, start a conversation: pick one of these five principles - whichever resonates most with your current challenges - and share it with your team or leadership. Don't present it as "here's what we should do" but as "here's an interesting idea - what would this mean for us?" That conversation will reveal where you are, what's blocking you, and what might be possible.  Second, run one small experiment: take something you're currently doing and frame it as an experiment with a clear goal, action, and learning measure. Make it small, make it fast - one week maximum, 24 hours if you can - then stop and learn. You now have the blueprint. You understand the barriers. You've seen the alternatives. The transformation is possible, and it starts with you. Recommended Further Reading Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel episodes on continuous strategy  The book by Christensen, Clayton: "The Innovator's Dilemma"  The book by Gojko Adzic: Impact Mapping  Ukraine drone warfare Company lifespan statistics: Innosight research on S&P 500 turnover  Stripe's impact on internet businesses Amazon AWS origin story DevOps observability practices About Vasco Duarte Vasco Duarte is a thought leader in the Agile space, co-founder of Agile Finland, and host of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, which has over 10 million downloads. Author of NoEstimates: How To Measure Project Progress Without Estimating, Vasco is a sought-after speaker and consultant helping organizations embrace Agile practices to achieve business success. You can link with Vasco Duarte on LinkedIn.

Pozdravljeni v novi epizodi podkasta, kjer raziskujemo zanimive frazeme skozi kratke, hudomušne zgodbe za otroke in vse radovedne člane družine.  Besedila zgodbic o slovenskih frazemih mi je pomagal ustvariti UI. Vir: Frazemi so povzeti po spletnih virih: fran.si :Janez Keber: Slovar slovenskih frazemov. Slike: Artistly. Lektorira Tatjana Kovačič, bere Nataša Holy.

Wes and Scott revisit their 2025 web development predictions, grading hits and misses across AI, browsers, frameworks, CSS, and tooling. From Temporal and AI coding agents to React, Vite, and vanilla CSS, they reflect on what actually changed, what stalled, and what it all means heading into 2026. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 866: 2025 Web Development Predictions 01:26 Temporal API will ship in the browser 03:33 On-device AI becomes common 06:14 WebGPU unlocks fast local machine learning TypeGPU 07:10 Models will plateau 10:32 Is there an actual use case for video and photo gen AI? 13:27 Text to UI tools get really good 16:25 Framework choice will matter less 18:53 Web components in Standard Stack, Web Awesome takes off 21:37 AI browsers and Copilot Workspace-style tools will become normal 22:56 AI browsera will become inevitable, OpenAI will launch a browser 27:51 Relative color will feel fully “safe to use” 29:02 Vanilla CSS will make a comeback 30:33 Brought to you by Sentry.io 30:58 CSS mixins and functions spec solidifies CSS Custom Functions and Mixins Module Level 1 33:25 Container style queries will ship everywhere CSS if statements 35:40 Vertical centering jokes will stubbornly persist 36:20 VS Code will reach feature parity with Cursor 38:47 More VS Code forks will appear 39:46 React Compiler drops Babel 40:34 React server components will pop 42:17 Remix re-emerges as something new 43:17 React Native will have its time 44:21 TanStack Start and Tanstack will pop 45:46 SvelteKit gets more granular data loading 46:06 Local first apps will take off 46:43 Bun keeps doing “wild but loved” non-standard features, Bun will launch a platform-as-a-service 48:22 Vite stays king 51:07 Laravel will release a CMS 52:44 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs Sick Picks Scott: DARKBEAM Flashlight UV Black Light Wes: WOOZOO Fan Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

In episode 126, we're exploring the career and research of one of the leading scholars on gender, inequality, and crime, Professor Karen Heimer. Karen Heimer is Professor of Sociology & Criminology, Collegiate Fellow in the College of Liberal Arts & Sciences, and Distinguished Research Fellow of the Public Policy Center at the University of Iowa. She also holds a courtesy appointment in the Boyd College of Law. Heimer researches and teaches in the areas of gender and violence, juvenile delinquency, criminal punishment, and causes of crime and violence. She became a Fellow of the American Society of Criminology in 2015 and served as President of the American Society of Criminology in 2018.  She is a recipient of the 2018 Iowa Regents Award for Faculty Excellence and the 2019 UI's Hancher-Finkbine Faculty Medallion.

Kirk McElhern discusses the latest edition of Take Control of Apple Media Apps, covering what's new—and what isn't—in Music, TV, Podcasts, and Books. He critiques the "Liquid Glass" look, notes small updates like AutoMix and pinned items, and argues the apps have reached maturity. The conversation includes accessibility issues, managing personal video libraries, and why Spotify's appeal isn't just playlists. (Part 1)  MacVoices is supported by The Antigravity A1. Get off the ground like never before with the Antigravity A1. You have to see the results to believe them. Find out everything you need to know to get off the ground with Antigravity A1 — the world's first 8K 360 drone. https://www.antigravity.tech/drone/antigravity-a1/buy?utm_term=macvoices Show Notes: Chapters: 0:00 – Why this edition matters; introducing the updated book 2:46 – What's new: AutoMix, lyric tools, pinning, folders, widgets 4:04 – Consistency across Mac/iPhone/iPad and where the Mac differs 6:39 – "Maturity" vs innovation; why major UI changes may be over 7:44 – iPod/iTunes anniversaries and the long arc of media features 10:31 – Hardware/software "peaks" and what innovation looks like now 12:24 – OS 26 changes, Liquid Glass pros/cons, and usability 13:42 – TV app thumbnail/title problems; accessibility concerns 16:22 – Using Plex for ripped/personal video libraries 19:14 – Playlists, Spotify vs Apple Music, and personalization Links: Take Control of Apple Media Apps by Kirk McElhearn Guests:   Kirk McElhearn writes about Macs, iPods, iTunes, books, music and more. He is a regular contributor to TidBITS, as well as several other web sites and magazines. He is an avid podcaster who's shows include The Next Track,. You can follow him on Twitter, and visit his personal web site, Kirkville. Support:      Become a MacVoices Patron on Patreon      http://patreon.com/macvoices      Enjoy this episode? Make a one-time donation with PayPal Connect:      Web:      http://macvoices.com      Twitter:      http://www.twitter.com/chuckjoiner      http://www.twitter.com/macvoices      Mastodon:      https://mastodon.cloud/@chuckjoiner      Facebook:      http://www.facebook.com/chuck.joiner      MacVoices Page on Facebook:      http://www.facebook.com/macvoices/      MacVoices Group on Facebook:      http://www.facebook.com/groups/macvoice      LinkedIn:      https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuckjoiner/      Instagram:      https://www.instagram.com/chuckjoiner/ Subscribe:      Audio in iTunes      Video in iTunes      Subscribe manually via iTunes or any podcatcher:      Audio: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesrss      Video: http://www.macvoices.com/rss/macvoicesvideorss

I talk about my current tech projects and how I use AI for them. I also discuss the challenges of upgrading an app for mobile phones and updating the UI for smaller screens. I share about taking PTO to visit family and how much fun that was. On top of that, I go into more detail about my current job.

Randal is klaar met het Apple-ecosysteem: jaren iOS, maar de combinatie van “Apple doet weinig met AI” en een onweerstaanbare vouwdrang richting een Pixel 10 Pro Fold begint te knagen. Jurian herkent de frictie op z’n eigen manier. Probeer maar eens Gmail te openen tussen Google’s identieke icoontjes op iOS, terwijl gastnerd Rachid Finge — Communication Lead / AI Developer Communications Lead bij Google — uitlegt hoe hij developers warm maakt voor Gemini, en hoe verjaardagsfeestjes elk jaar weer andere “Google-vragen” opleveren. Het gesprek zigzagt van agentic AI (Deep Research, Gemini Agent, en de “Will Smith eet spaghetti”-tijdlijn) naar Gemini als lijm tussen Maps/Gmail/Calendar en je dagelijkse chaos. Daarna wordt het spannend: AI Mode en AI-overzichten veranderen zoeken, SEO en traffic, en dat schuurt met het open web. Ondertussen legt Rachid uit waarom “Gemini” tegelijk een app, een model-familie én een zoekmachine-variant is—handig voor de massa, verwarrend voor nerds. En ja: interoperabiliteit komt langs (RCS in iMessage, Quick Share dat AirDrop begrijpt), net als UI-polish, foldables, en de eeuwige vraag waarom YouTube Premium zo duur voelt. Shownotes Rachid Finge (site met video’s)Google GeminiGoogle One (bundelwens: opslag + Premium)Quick ShareAirDropRCSCursor (vibe coding / IDE’s)Stack Overflow Developer Survey (adoptie vs waardering) Tijdschema 0:00:04 Toekomstige AI bij Google0:01:22 Rachid’s Frustraties met Apple0:04:43 De Sterkte van Google’s AI0:05:49 Overstappen naar Pixel?0:11:34 AI en Gebruikerservaring0:16:01 De Impact van AI op Media0:20:35 Google en Concurrentie0:26:30 Voordelen van Google AI0:30:37 De Toekomst van Zoeken0:34:13 Perceptie van Google Werken0:35:00 Groeiende Technologie en Google Cloud0:37:59 De Kracht van Gemini voor Developers0:41:47 De Rol van AI in de Toekomst0:46:42 De Frustraties van een Apple Nerd0:50:53 Interoperabiliteit en Google Pixel0:55:11 De Uitdagingen van Android UI0:59:13 De Toekomst van Tablets en Foldables1:01:02 Complexiteit van Innovatie en Concurrentie1:01:34 YouTube Premium: Een Belangrijke DiscussieSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Warcraft II is one of the most influential RTS games of all time.  It brought the genre to the mainstream with insane sales, and set the standard for UI and tech trees for years to come.  Blizzard had cracked the code on what made RTS games tick, and it laid the groundwork for the classics that would come in its wake.But for all its influence, how much fun is Warcraft II to actually play today?  Does it suffer from its far more simplistic mechanics and mirrored factions, or is there something elegant and refined about a more stripped back and focused RTS?On this episode, we discuss:PresentationHow well does Warcraft 2 sell its aesthetic and lore?  Do its cartoony graphics hold up well compared to RTS's of today?  Are the responses of its units annoying or endearing?MacroAre the macro elements of Warcraft II well realised?  How does it balance building up your economy versus developing a standing army to take the battle to the enemy?  Are there diverse objectives or constraints to liven up the experience of building up your base?MicroHow fun is it to micro your units in Warcraft II?  Do the lack of quality of life features like unit queuing, rally points and limited units per control group make the experience miserable?  Are there any units that stand out as affecting the flow of battle?We answer these questions and many more on the 136th episode of the Retro Spectives Podcast!—Intro Music: KieLoBot - Tanzen KOutro Music: Rockit Maxx - One point to anotherWarcraft 2 OST: Glenn Stafford—If you'd like more RTS discussion, Pat guested on the Nostalgia Goggles Podcast for Starcraft 1!  You can listen to that episode here.—Was your experience playing Warcraft 2 back in the day radically different from our own?  Were there any strategies or tactics that we missed?  What other under the radar modern RTS games should we play?  Come let us know what you think on our community discord server!You can support the show monetarily on our buy me a coffee page!

This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club.http://gotopia.tech/bookclubCheck out more here:https://gotopia.tech/episodes/402Albert S. Tanure - Cross Solutions Architec at Microsoft & Author of "ASP.NET Core 9 Essentials"Rafael Herik de Carvalho - Platform & DevOps Engineering at DevoteamRESOURCESAlberthttps://x.com/alberttanurehttps://github.com/tanurehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/albert-tanurehttps://www.codefc.io/enRafaelhttps://x.com/rafaelherikhttps://github.com/rafaelherikhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/rafaelh-carvalhohttps://dev.to/rafaelherikDESCRIPTIONMicrosoft Solutions Architect Albert Tanure explores his approach to writing "ASP.NET Core 9 Essentials", a guide designed to take developers from basic .NET concepts to advanced cloud-native application development. Albert emphasizes the intentional structure of starting with foundations before introducing best practices, covering the complete application lifecycle from UI development and APIs to deployment, monitoring, and cloud operations.The conversation highlights how modern development requires understanding not just coding, but also DevOps practices, observability with tools like OpenTelemetry, dynamic configurations, containers, and cloud-native principles. The book serves both beginners seeking solid foundations and experienced developers looking to understand modern deployment strategies, with particular emphasis on chapters 9-11 that cover cloud native mindsets and operational considerations.RECOMMENDED BOOKSAlbert Tanure • ASP.NET Core 9 Essentials • https://amzn.to/43bH73tMark J. Price • Real-World Web Development with .NET 9 • https://amzn.to/46ZKsnwMark J. Price • C# 13 and .NET 9 – Modern Cross-Platform Development Fundamentals • https://amzn.to/4o5E5FZFabrizio Romano & Heinrich Kruger • Learning Python Programming • https://amzn.to/4myLBItBlueskyTwitterInstagramLinkedInFacebookCHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUSJoin this channel to get early access to videos & other perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/joinLooking for a unique learning experience?Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.techSUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

In this BG2 guest interview, Altimeter partner Apoorv Agrawal sits down with Ali Ghodsi (Databricks) and Arvind Jain (Glean) for a candid, operator-level discussion on what's actually working in enterprise AI—and what isn't.They unpack why 95% of AI projects fail, why LLMs are rapidly commoditizing, and why durable advantage is shifting to proprietary data, agentic systems, and workflow integration. The conversation dives deep into real-world use cases across finance, healthcare, and retail; the debate over whether we already have AGI; and how AI spend, CapEx, and valuation bubbles will realistically play out. A must-watch for builder, and investors navigating the AI transition inside real organizations.Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(01:00) Consumer AI vs. Enterprise Reality(02:15) Why 95% of AI Projects Fail(04:15) RBC, Merck, and 7-Eleven Use Cases(06:45) What Actually Makes AI Work(07:00) LLMs Are Commodities—Data Is the Moat(08:45) Failed AI Bets at Databricks & Glean(11:00) RPA vs. Generative AI(14:15) Advice for CIOs Planning AI Budgets(16:00) AI CapEx and the Revenue Math(18:00) The Three Camps of AI(21:00) Making AI Useful Inside Enterprises(24:30) Why Apps Capture the Value(30:00) The Future of UI, Voice, and Data Entry(37:30) Rapid Fire: Winners, Bubbles, Long/ShortProduced by Dan ShevchukMusic by Yung SpielbergAvailable on Apple, Spotify, www.bg2pod.comFollow:Apoorv Agrawal @apoorv03 https://x.com/apoorv03BG2 Pod @bg2pod https://x.com/BG2Pod

Pozdravljeni v novi epizodi podkasta, kjerodkrivamo zanimiva zemljepisna imena skozi kratke, hudomušne zgodbe za otroke in vse radovedne člane družine. Besedila zgodbic mi je pomagal ustvariti UI. Nataša HolyVir: Atlas Slovenije, Mladinska knjiga in Geodetski zavod Slovenije, Ljubljana, 1985,  slike: Artistly. Lektorira Tatjana Kovačič, bere Nataša Holy

The pod signs off for the year with its final episode—a sharp, chaotic recap of last year's predictions and a fresh round of hot takes for 2026. Sam and Dave, unsurprisingly, wing it: Sam calls a single $500B+ IPO (SpaceX), Google up, NVIDIA down, and Meta hitting new highs on AI-powered ads. Jess warns that AI-driven efficiency will fuel layoffs (especially in journalism) and that CapEx hype is outrunning reality. Dave predicts a boom in third places and games-first IP, while Britt bets on an Apple comeback, AI wearables as daily “life summarizers,” a breakout AI-native social app, and a celebrity licensing their AI twin. True to form, the crew goes off script to debate Amazon's rumored $10B OpenAI deal, AI as the new UI, which model builders survive, regulation looming over prediction markets, “slop” as word of the year, GLP-1s going mainstream, creators eyeing Emmys, and much more. Chapters:01:50 Morin's “Nauti or Nice” Holiday Card04:06 Sam's 2025 Predictions: Bitcoin, Solana ETFs, Crypto Government Adoption05:16 Britt's 2025 Predictions: Amazon Marketplace, Elon's “TITS,” Swift Engagement07:52 Dave's 2025 Predictions: Data Centers, Material Flow Robotics, Crypto Clarity10:18 Jess's 2025 Predictions: TikTok U.S., Vertical Stacks, Media Copyright, GLP-1s11:40 2025 Themes: “Slop,” AI Talent Wars, Government–Tech Ties12:58 Big Tech Check-In: Apple Loses Ground, Google's Delta13:41 Amazon's $10B OpenAI Bet and Chip Diplomacy16:16 Britt's 2026 Predictions: Apple Comeback, Wearable Agents, AI Talent Deals21:45 Jess's 2026 Predictions: AI-Driven Layoffs, Liquidity Wave, Prediction Market Regulation28:57 Dave's 2026 Predictions: Third Places, Games-First IP, Roblox Scrutiny36:17 Sam's 2026 Predictions: One $500B+ IPO, Nvidia Down, Google Up, Meta ATH44:13 AI Is the New UI: SaaS UX Moats Under Pressure49:35 Does AI Adult Content Go Mainstream?50:04 Dave on Google Doppl and AI Try-On Tech51:28 Britt's Pop Corner: Taylor Swift Album and Pregnancy Speculation52:19 Industry Wish List: More DPI, Kids' Mental Health, Waymos EverywhereWe're also on ↓X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/ehO3wIio7NwConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

With Haven gone, now only one person in Glasshouse knows about Cair Mallplex's location—the last Reyes sibling, Valeria. And as the spirit of revolution continues to rise in the Metropolis, where her loyalties truly lie is no clear thing. Trigger warnings for references to family death, grief, neglect, poverty throughout, discussion of surveillance tactics throughout, mention and discussion of police brutality and government force against its people, implied systemic racism/misogyny, discussion of political violence, and discussion of medical procedures and parental abuse and neglect. Find us on our website at undertheelectricstars.com! Transcripts are available on our website. Support us on Patreon ➠ patreon.com/mxeliramos Follow us on social media! Tumblr ➠ undertheelectricstarspodcast.tumblr.com Bluesky ➠ https://bsky.app/profile/utes-podcast.bsky.social Thanks to our patrons Lucas, Christine, Ferris, Chris Magilton, Audrey Pham, Joshua Hazeghazam, Seth Timple, Inigo Sherwani, Kyla Worrell, Everett Noir, James P. Olson, Miriam Brown, No1 Inparticular, and Merry for their support. Team Jae “GameJae” Shinn as Patton March Lushika Preethraj as Cybil Blanche John Patneaude as Sebastian Reyes Rhea Anne as Caine Reyes Philomena Sherwood as Tari de Whitte Kevin Paculan as Vic Vass Christine Kim as Su-jin Yi Raine Yoali Olachea Martinez as Indra Motzie Dapul as Valeria Reyes Additional voices were provided by Eli Ramos, May Ramos, Brandon Leland, Kai Ramos, Lianna Anderson, and Merry Wolf. From freesound.org “Breaking news intro music” by humanoide9000 (https://freesound.org/people/humanoide9000/sounds/760770/) “BrushingTeeth.mp3” by shelbyshark (https://freesound.org/people/shelbyshark/sounds/483475/) “Wine_Glass_Alarm.aiff” by dland (https://freesound.org/people/dland/sounds/69552/) “Wind Chimes 02.wav” by blukotek (https://freesound.org/people/blukotek/sounds/246055/) “Finger Tapping Phone” by jentlemen (https://freesound.org/people/jentlemen/sounds/704862/) “57-Cobija.wav” by wintuh (https://freesound.org/people/wintuh/sounds/471855/) “ceramic_06a_ballerinas_walk.wav” by sturmankin (https://freesound.org/people/sturmankin/sounds/272139/) “window_cleaning.wav” by tim.kahn (https://freesound.org/people/tim.kahn/sounds/52165/) “Space Ship Door Open” by MicktheMicGuy (https://freesound.org/people/MicktheMicGuy/sounds/434162/) “concrete_17a_boots_walk.wav” by sturmankin (https://freesound.org/people/sturmankin/sounds/272253/) “chair_sitting_7.wav” by FreqMan (https://freesound.org/people/FreqMan/sounds/25930/) “Bag Drop Foley.wav” by UlyssesAtSea (https://freesound.org/people/UlyssesAtSea/sounds/648137/) “city trains traffic apartments ambience 150906_0767.flac” by klankbeeld (https://freesound.org/people/klankbeeld/sounds/321495/) “lino_15a_darkshoes_walk.wav” by sturmankin (https://freesound.org/people/sturmankin/sounds/272517/) “Office_ambience.m4a” by servozero (https://freesound.org/people/servozero/sounds/636268/) “clean stereo classroom ambience with air conditioning” by busabx (https://freesound.org/people/busabx/sounds/718273/) “bus_door_opening.wav” by 13FPanska_Sychra_Petr (https://freesound.org/people/13FPanska_Sychra_Petr/sounds/379372/) “Bus Closing Door” by am7 (https://freesound.org/people/am7/sounds/520753/) “Bus_arrives_doors_open_and_close_bus_leaves.wav” by lichtsammler (https://freesound.org/people/lichtsammler/sounds/548374/)   “Cane_Hit_on_Gravel_3.wav” by Tdude9000 (https://freesound.org/people/Tdude9000/sounds/138298/) “Hyacinthe_door with push bar_edited.wav” by launchsite (https://freesound.org/people/launchsite/sounds/557348/) “Metal Door Impacted, Swings open” by DeqstersLab (https://freesound.org/people/DeqstersLab/sounds/767041/) “abandoned warehouse” by Kostrava (https://freesound.org/people/Kostrava/sounds/240895/) “door metal institutional push bar open close.flac” by kyles (https://freesound.org/people/kyles/sounds/637479/) “ceramic_11a_sneakers_walk.wav” by sturmankin (https://freesound.org/people/sturmankin/sounds/272143/) “Office Door Closing” by mhtaylor67 (https://freesound.org/people/mhtaylor67/sounds/126044/) “Cold CityNight 1032PM 210209_0248.wav” by klankbeeld (https://freesound.org/people/klankbeeld/sounds/625668/) “paving_17a_boots_walk.wav” by sturmankin (https://freesound.org/people/sturmankin/sounds/273071/) “Electric Crackle Ticking” by Headphaze (https://freesound.org/people/Headphaze/sounds/158706/) “Electric Zap – Electricity” by Wakerone (https://freesound.org/people/Wakerone/sounds/393067/) “Hug02.wav” by E0las (https://freesound.org/people/E0las/sounds/399674/) “VS_Short Whoosh 8.mp3” by Vilkas_Sound (https://freesound.org/people/Vilkas_Sound/sounds/460473/) “Ringtone 1” by mabdog (https://freesound.org/people/mabdog/sounds/447307/) “Whipping” by SoundsExciting (https://freesound.org/people/SoundsExciting/sounds/204358/) “CameraFocusing.wav” by Tony01726 (https://freesound.org/people/Tony01726/sounds/362818/) “Colorino Talking Color Identifier and Light Probe AM Radio.wav” by kb7clx (https://freesound.org/people/kb7clx/sounds/345712/) “PullChainMediumOFF.wav” by cbakos (https://freesound.org/people/cbakos/sounds/50640/) “A pistol or revolver being holstered/unholstered; 3 takes” by serøtōnin (https://freesound.org/people/ser%C3%B8t%C5%8Dnin/sounds/755986/) “Gun Cock.wav” by SmartWentCody (https://freesound.org/people/SmartWentCody/sounds/179011/) “SciFi Gun - Mega Charge Cannon” by dpren (https://freesound.org/people/dpren/sounds/440147/) “Male Footsteps on Hardwood Stairs With Shoes -- Medium Speed, Walking Down, Walking Up.WAV” by Ndheger (https://freesound.org/people/Ndheger/sounds/118106/) “sit_on_tatami1.mp3” by Taira Komori (https://freesound.org/people/Taira%20Komori/sounds/212552/) “Office Chair Impacts and Squeaks” by Lastered (https://freesound.org/people/Lastered/sounds/757323/) From other sources “Beep 25” by Soundjay.com “Button 37” by Soundjay.com “ROOM TONE Hotel Hallway 2, 5am, Chiang Mai, Thailand, LR” by Articulated Sounds ttsmaker.com From Zapsplat.com Science fiction door slide open 2 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/science-fiction-door-slide-open-2/) City street ambience, 8pm at night, pedestrians, traffic passing close by, George Street, Sydney CBD, Australia (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/city-street-ambience-8pm-at-night-pedestrians-traffic-passing-close-by-george-street-sydney-cbd-australia/)   Modern Digital Smartphone Tone 02 Mobile phone notification 1 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/mobile-phone-notification-tone-1/) Person sitting down into a leather office chair, air puffs out from cushion 1 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/person-sitting-down-into-a-leather-office-chair-air-puffs-out-from-cushion-1/) Bus Stop Close Perspective Conductors 01 Knock on Metal Bathtub 2 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/knock-on-metal-bathtub-2/) Aggressive metal impact, slam, hit with loose stretched piece rattling (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/aggressive-metal-impact-slam-hit-with-loose-stretched-piece-rattling/) Sci-fi UI tone, open, bright, electronic (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/sci-fi-ui-tone-open-bright-electronic/) Leather briefcase open. Version 2( https://www.zapsplat.com/music/leather-briefcase-open-version-2/) Game sound, processing, loading or waiting mallet tone, clicking and muted (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/game-sound-processing-loading-or-waiting-mallet-tone-clicking-and-muted/) Body punch, clothing, jacket impact 5 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/body-impact-could-be-hit-punch-or-kick-5/) Very fast airy transition whoosh 2 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/very-fast-airy-transition-whoosh-2/) Bathroom heater switch off (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/bathroom-heater-switch-off/) Science fiction, telemetry, computer, power down, power off, electronic, modulated, sci-fi (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/science-fiction-telemetry-computer-power-down-power-off-electronic-modulated-sci-fi/) Sci-Fi UI Tone – Opening 1 (https://www.zapsplat.com/sound-effect-packs/sci-fi-ui-tones/) Science fiction computer interface UI tone, negative, critical error, version 2 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/science-fiction-computer-interface-ui-tone-negative-critical-error-version-2/) Science fiction door slide open 5 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/science-fiction-door-slide-open-5/) Person sitting down on mattress 3 (https://www.zapsplat.com/music/person-sitting-down-on-mattress-3/) Music “Chloroform [Gloomy Suspenseful BGM]” by Kuzu420 (https://pixabay.com/music/mystery-chloroform-gloomy-suspenseful-bgm-433798/) “Ominous Criminal Atmosphere” by Universfield (https://pixabay.com/music/ambient-ominous-criminal-atmosphere-191758/) “Dark Sedation – True Crime Loop Music Track” by JoelFazhari (https://pixabay.com/music/crime-scene-dark-sedation-true-crime-loop-music-track-293364/) “Fester” by GabrielDouglas (https://pixabay.com/music/solo-piano-fester-2076/) "Under Hover" by Stirquoise, from the album “Gloominati” (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/stirquoise/gloominati/under-hover/) "Courage My Love" by Mr Smith, from the album “Streamliner” (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/mr-smith/streamliner/courage-my-love/) "Potential" by 1000 Handz (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/1000-handz/cc-by-free-to-use-ambientbackground-scores/potential/) "Strange Dreams" by HoliznaCC0, from the album “Left Overs” (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/holiznacc0/left-overs/strange-dreams/) "Part VII" by Jahzzar, from the album "Moonxine" (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Jahzzar/Moonxine) "Part IX" by Jahzzar, from the album "Moonxine" (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Jahzzar/Moonxine) "Part X" by Jahzzar, from the album "Moonxine" (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Jahzzar/Moonxine) "Unknown Dreamstate" by Unheard Music Concepts (https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Unheard_Music_Concepts/Home_1808/06_Unknown_Dream_State/) This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License.

This week we are joined by AutumnEev! We also talk about the island competition, interface changes, and we do Q&A.Follow AutumnEev on her socials!Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/autumneevYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaKSUEsUkyogksd4JxKAB0ATwitter: https://x.com/AutumnEevEPISODE TIME STAMPS00:00 Intro & personal updates21:29 Player designed island contest35:05 Sailing & UI updates51:51 Q&A with Rob & Michelle1:03:52 Joined by AutumnEev2:18:43 Q&A with AutumnEev2:58:56 OutroEpisode notes:https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/the-official-osrs-podcast-episode-6-with-mod-rice?oldschool=1https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/player-designed-island-competition?oldschool=1https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/more-sailing-and-interface-changes?oldschool=1Support the podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/bunebapeWatch live on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/bunebapeWatch live on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BuneBape/streamsJoin Our Community Discord at: https://discord.gg/bunebapeHelp buy cosplay supplies: https://throne.com/bunebapeDid you enjoy the content or have any questions? Let us know by commenting and check out more content you might enjoy at the links below.Podcast: open.spotify.com/show/4B3zj5EwqpatWmUre5wV6V?si=HfDE6IY5SqWLjlmdsJyXKQInstagram: instagram.com/bunebapeTwitter: twitter.com/bunebapeosrsTikTok: tiktok.com/@bunebapeosrsMerch: bunebape.comBusiness Inquiries:Bunebape@gmail.comTags:#osrs #oldschoolrunescape #osrspodcast #bunebape #runescapepodcast #podcast

Generative UI is quietly changing how digital products work — and Google Labs' experimental browser Disco is a perfect example of that shift.Not what buttons look like.But how interfaces are created in the first place.In this episode of Future of UX, I explore what happens when interfaces are no longer fixed screens, but generated on the fly based on user intent, context, and goals.Using Disco and its GenTabs feature as a lens, we talk about:why browsing is shifting from search-first to goal-firsthow UI becomes a temporary, situational response rather than a static artifactand why trust, transparency, and responsibility become core UX challenges in generative systemsThis is not a tool review or a hype episode.It's a UX-first perspective on what Generative UI signals for designers, product teams, and anyone shaping digital experiences.If you work in UX, product, or design strategy, this episode will help you understand what's actually changing and why it matters.Become part of the conversation:Please share your thoughts here: Users casually creating their own apps now? AI for Designers: 5-week Bootcamp

In this opinion column, Elizabeth New (Hovde) outlines how Senate Bill 5041 could lead to unemployment insurance overpayments for striking workers and added strain on Washington's UI fund, calling for clear disclosure at the point of application. https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/opinion/opinion-another-problem-with-strike-pay-from-the-ui-fund-potential-double-dipping-overpayments/ #Opinion #WashingtonPolicyCenter #UnemploymentInsurance #SB5041 #WashingtonState #LaborPolicy

In this episode, I go over one AI news item I can't stop thinking about, one trend you can build a business around, two tools I'm using, one startup idea you should steal, and one framework to end on. I start with a leak suggesting Anthropic is productizing “agent mode” for Claude with structured task buckets and a progress/context UI. Then I use Hyrox as an example of how I validate trends quickly with search data (and what “low competition + cheap CPC + explosive growth” signals). I wrap by pitching a hotel guest-communication concierge and the “thousand people framework” for getting to clarity on your ICP and what they'll reliably pay for. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 00:32 – AI New Item: Anthropic leak: Agent Task Mode for Claude 04:47 – Trend: Hyrox 08:59 – AI App: Krea and Notebook LLM 12:23 – Startup idea: Digital Hotel Concierge 15:59 – Framework: The “1000 People” For founders doing $50k+ MRR+: https://startup-ideas-pod.link/offline-mode Key Points Agent workflows get “productized” when the UI guides the task (not just a blank prompt box). Trend validation can be fast: look for explosive growth + low competition + cheap CPC, then ideate apps around it. NotebookLM's slide generation is an underrated workflow for turning sources into clean decks. The “Guest Guide” concept is a simple AI/QR wedge: answer repetitive hotel questions and monetize per property. The thousand-people exercise forces clarity: who exactly buys, what they pay yearly, and how you reach them. Section Summaries The Claude Agent Mode Leak I break down a leak claiming Anthropic is preparing a more structured “agent mode” for Claude, organized into buckets like research, analyze, write, and build plus choices like depth, format, and outputs. The big shift is moving from “open chat” to “delegating distinct tasks” with visibility into progress and context. Productized Prompts = Better Output I explain why a blank text box can be daunting, and why UI that scaffolds intent (validate/compare/forecast, quick vs. thorough, doc vs. slides vs. spreadsheet) can make results meaningfully better. To me, it points at a future where you “check in” on agents like teammates. Trend Hunting I use Hyrox, an indoor fitness competition that's “like the new CrossFit,” as a real example of how I sanity-check whether something is becoming a business opportunity. The workflow is simple: I see it in culture, then I go straight to Idea Browser to pull search/CPC/competition signals. Two Tools I'm Testing I call out Krea as a creative AI subscription bundling multiple models, and then I highlight NotebookLM's slide/infographic feature as the underrated part—turning a source (including transcripts) into clean, well-designed slides with strong hierarchy. Steal This: Guest Guide I pitch a hotel digital concierge that handles common guest questions via QR-code guides, priced per property with affiliate upside, and I reference Sadie as an adjacent AI hospitality product (more on calls/reservations). Then I close with the “thousand people framework”: define the real ICP, map what they'll pay yearly, and figure out distribution—because clarity is the driver. The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ The Vibe Marketer - Resources for people into vibe marketing/marketing with AI: https://www.thevibemarketer.com/ FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/

(00:00:00) Alan, dai (00:00:13) Introduzione al Software 2025 (00:00:34) Antipasti Tecnologici (00:02:01) Svolta di Apple nel 2025 (00:04:14) L'importanza di iOS 26 (00:05:48) Intelligenza Artificiale e iOS 18 (00:08:37) Errori con iOS 18.3 (00:11:07) La Novità di iOS 18.4 (00:14:14) Cambiamenti nella Numerazione (00:15:32) Liquid Glass e Innovazioni (00:16:36) Riconoscimento del Cambiamento (00:20:07) Contaminazione tra Dispositivi (00:25:41) Aspettative per il 2026 (00:28:52) Evoluzione dell'Ecosistema Apple (00:31:47) Saluti e Conclusioni dell'Anno Il 2025 è l'anno della vera svolta software o solo di una grande confusione? In questa puntata analizzo il controverso design "Liquid Glass", la fuga di Alan Dye verso Meta e un'Apple Intelligence che ancora fatica a ingranare. Tra numerazioni di iOS che non tornano e indizi sui futuri iPhone pieghevoli, cerco di capire se Apple sta tracciando una nuova strada o se sta solo correndo ai ripari.Le novità di iOS 26.3Visita Digiteee e scopri tutte le notizie sulla tecnologiaSegui Digiteee su TikTokDimmi la tua su Twitter, su Threads, su Telegram, su Mastodon, su BlueSky o su Instagram.Mail jacoporeale@yahoo.it Scopri dove ascoltare il podcast e lascia una recensione su Apple Podcast o Spotify.Ascolta An iPad guy su YouTube Podcast.Supporta il podcast

Note: this is Pliny and John's first major podcast. Voices have been changed for opsec. From jailbreaking every frontier model and turning down Anthropic's Constitutional AI challenge to leading BT6, a 28-operator white-hat hacker collective obsessed with radical transparency and open-source AI security, Pliny the Liberator and John V are redefining what AI red-teaming looks like when you refuse to lobotomize models in the name of "safety." Pliny built his reputation crafting universal jailbreaks—skeleton keys that obliterate guardrails across modalities—and open-sourcing prompt templates like Libertas, predictive reasoning cascades, and the infamous "Pliny divider" that's now embedded so deep in model weights it shows up unbidden in WhatsApp messages. John V, coming from prompt engineering and computer vision, co-founded the Bossy Discord (40,000 members strong) and helps steer BT6's ethos: if you can't open-source the data, we're not interested. Together they've turned down enterprise gigs, pushed back on Anthropic's closed bounties, and insisted that real AI security happens at the system layer—not by bubble-wrapping latent space. We sat down with Pliny and John to dig into the mechanics of hard vs. soft jailbreaks, why multi-turn crescendo attacks were obvious to hackers years before academia "discovered" them, how segmented sub-agents let one jailbroken orchestrator weaponize Claude for real-world attacks (exactly as Pliny predicted 11 months before Anthropic's recent disclosure), why guardrails are security theater that punishes capability while doing nothing for real safety, the role of intuition and "bonding" with models to navigate latent space, how BT6 vets operators on skill and integrity, why they believe Mech Interp and open-source data are the path forward (not RLHF lobotomization), and their vision for a future where spatial intelligence, swarm robotics, and AGI alignment research happen in the open—bootstrapped, grassroots, and uncompromising. We discuss: What universal jailbreaks are: skeleton-key prompts that obliterate guardrails across models and modalities, and why they're central to Pliny's mission of "liberation" Hard vs. soft jailbreaks: single-input templates vs. multi-turn crescendo attacks, and why the latter were obvious to hackers long before academic papers The Libertas repo: predictive reasoning, the Library of Babel analogy, quotient dividers, weight-space seeds, and how introducing "steered chaos" pulls models out-of-distribution Why jailbreaking is 99% intuition and bonding with the model: probing token layers, syntax hacks, multilingual pivots, and forming a relationship to navigate latent space The Anthropic Constitutional AI challenge drama: UI bugs, judge failures, goalpost moving, the demand for open-source data, and why Pliny sat out the $30k bounty Why guardrails ≠ safety: security theater, the futility of locking down latent space when open-source is right behind, and why real safety work happens in meatspace (not RLHF) The weaponization of Claude: how segmented sub-agents let one jailbroken orchestrator execute malicious tasks (pyramid-builder analogy), and why Pliny predicted this exact TTP 11 months before Anthropic's disclosure BT6 hacker collective: 28 operators across two cohorts, vetted on skill and integrity, radical transparency, radical open-source, and the magic of moving the needle on AI security, swarm intelligence, blockchain, and robotics — Pliny the Liberator X: https://x.com/elder_plinius GitHub (Libertas): https://github.com/elder-plinius/L1B3RT45 John V X: https://x.com/JohnVersus BT6 & Bossy BT6: https://bt6.gg Bossy Discord: Search "Bossy Discord" or ask Pliny/John V on X Where to find Latent Space X: https://x.com/latentspacepod Substack: https://www.latent.space/ Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction: Meet Pliny the Liberator and John V 00:01:50 The Philosophy of AI Liberation and Jailbreaking 00:03:08 Universal Jailbreaks: Skeleton Keys to AI Models 00:04:24 The Cat-and-Mouse Game: Attackers vs Defenders 00:05:42 Security Theater vs Real Safety: The Fundamental Disconnect 00:08:51 Inside the Libertas Repo: Prompt Engineering as Art 00:16:22 The Anthropic Challenge Drama: UI Bugs and Open Source Data 00:23:30 From Jailbreaks to Weaponization: AI-Orchestrated Attacks 00:26:55 The BT6 Hacker Collective and BASI Community 00:34:46 AI Red Teaming: Full Stack Security Beyond the Model 00:38:06 Safety vs Security: Meat Space Solutions and Final Thoughts

This show has been flagged as Clean by the host. Hello, again. This is Trey. Welcome to part 5 in my Cheap Yellow Display (CYD) Project series. If you are still listening to me ramble about this project, thank you. If you wish to catch up on earlier episodes, you can find them on my HPR profile page https://www.hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents/0394.html To review, My project is to build a portable morse code "Keyer memory" which can be connected to any of my HF transceiver radios by simply plugging it in to the code key input port. Then I could transmit stored messages by simply touching their specific icon on the touch screen. I also want to be able to program each macro individually from the graphical user interface (GUI). To do this, I need to learn how to build a GUI. Most of the CYD resources I have been referencing recommend using Squareline Studio for GUI development on the CYD. Sadly, Squareline Studio is not open source. If any of you have experience with a good, open source alternative to Squareline Studio, please record a show to help the rest of us. Squareline does have a free trial and a free single user / single computer license, which I am using for this project. It will run on Windows, Linux, and Mac. After watching several videos about using the CYD with Squareline, I started to outline the functionality I needed. Squareline provides a wide range of pre-configured boards and interfaces to choose from, in addition to widgets and controls which you can drag onto your screens, and it will automatically generate the supporting code in the background. The initial page needs to have the macro buttons, with labels for the message they will send when pressed. There also needs to be navigation buttons to move from one page to others. Another important page will be the configuration page, where the user can store the contents of each macro and set the speed at which code will be sent. I would like to have a keyboard page where the user can type a custom message and send it. I made a few GUI sketches on post-it-notes, then I installed Squareline Studio on my Ubuntu laptop to start designing. There is a bit of a learning curve. Even with guide videos, I found the user experience to be... challenging. Their own GUI leaves much to be desired. It was not designed to run on the laptop's screen size/resolution. I had to switch to a much higher resolution monitor and rearrange frames within the app itself in order to see many of the controls. Button size adjustments, alignments, and label text did not work quite as expected. Getting things sized and aligned properly took quite a bit of fiddling. The text displayed on a button is a separate object from the button itself, so I have had to put some thought into object naming so that I can write code which will change button labels dynamically. I am including some screenshots from Squareline for the interface I designed. One great feature is that you can define actions and conditions for objects in your project. For example, there are buttons on the left which will navigate to specific screens. I defined actions within Squareline, such that when the specific navigation button is pressed, it will change the button appearance to look like it has been pressed and will then scroll left or right to a specified screen. Actions were also valuable for the Speed (WPM) slider on the Config screen. When this slider is moved left and right, the GUI will change the actual number for WPM to the right of the slider. Next, there is a simulator function which can be used to test how well the GUI works. It took some trial and error, but I was able to build and successfully test, navigational actions and the WPM slider. As I was working on building the afore mentioned WPM slider, and thinking about the default words per minute of Morse to use, my ADHD interrupted me (As usual). I decided to change the default speed that I use for the Arduino Nano based Morse code practice keyer which I keep on my desk. You can learn more about this keyer in episode 3 of this series. And we will also discuss Morse code speed in a future episode in this series. The original code (As found on https://github.com/jmharvey1/ArduinoCPO ) specified 12 words per minute (WPM) as the default speed, with buttons to increase or decrease this. However, I am practicing at 20 WPM. Every time I turn on the practice set, I need to turn up the speed and guess when I am close to 20. I went ahead and opened the PracticeOscilator project in Arduino IDE and updated the wpm variable to a value of 20. No, you will not see this change reflected in my own GitHub repo because: A) I wanted to test it locally first B) 20 WPM may be a little fast for a default C) I do not use git the way that it is meant to be used, or the way I SHOULD be using it, with pull requests and all. Bad Trey. D) I was distracted ANYWAY, the reason I bring this up is that it is the first time I have used the Arduino IDE to program a board with this system since I upgraded from Ubunto 20.04 to Ubuntu 22.04. Try as I might, I was not able to get the Arduino Nano's USB port to be recognized in Linux so that I could upload the updated keyer code. I spent several days troubleshooting, using other Arduino devices, different USB ports, and different cables, all to no avail. If anyone has any recommendations, I am open to suggestions. So, I dug out my son's old Windows 10 PC and started again. I had to install the Arduino IDE, load all the necessary libraries, and my code from Github (Which I had to manually change once again, because I don't fully get git). Finally I was able to update the Arduino Nano with its new code, and it works perfectly. But this revealed the same problem for the CYD. I also could not get it to connect over USB to my Ubuntu system. Time to migrate the entire project to Windows. My next step was to install Squareline Studio on Windows. Here, I ran into another snag, as my trial license was only for one system, so I had to uninstall Squareline from Linux before I could activate the license on Windows. Did I mention that I would love to find an open source, free software product to use instead? If you know of one, please ping me or post a comment. I wasted more time trying to get the GUI project I had written on the Linux machine imported into Squareline on Windows, all the while thinking of improvements I could make if I started again from scratch. It would not load, and would not load. In the end, I started all over again. After much blood sweat and tears, my GUI code was working again, and this time in Windows. I was able to run it in the simulation mode and move from page to page successfully and also use the WPM slider. I exported the UI from Squareline, and I loaded the code it generated into a new project within Arduino IE. Now was the moment of truth. I followed instructions found on the Pang YouTube channel video [ESP32 + LVGL] Configuration input device rotary encoder ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGM6gu9OpbA ). I connected the CYD and uploaded the code. SUCCESS!! You can see my "Send" screen loaded perfectly! Now to try other screens. Wait. Drat. It does not seem like my navigation buttons work. Actually, it does not appear that the touch screen is responding at all. I spent the next several days trying to figure out what went wrong. I checked and double checked interrupt and configuration settings (Such as those described in another of Pang's videos, [CYD + LVGL] Configuration Cheap Yellow Display | Easy Guide ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmR-mjJVumU ). Nothing worked. I came to realize that I bit off more than I could chew, and I should NOT have started with such an ambitious project. Instead I should have started with a simple equivalence of "Hello World", where I could build and test simple functionality to make sure I knew exactly what I was doing, then expand on it. Lessons learned, and a good stopping point for this episode. I am open to your feedback on what you would recommend, what I should do differently, etc. You can post simple feedback as a comment or send me an email using the address in my HPR profile. As usual, if your feedback is more than a sentence or two, you might want to record it as an episode so that other listeners can benefit from it as well. Time for an espresso. Maybe I will make it a double. Or even a triple! Provide feedback on this episode.

Topics covered in this episode: Deprecations via warnings docs PyAtlas: interactive map of the top 10,000 Python packages on PyPI. Buckaroo Extras Joke Watch on YouTube About the show Connect with the hosts Michael: @mkennedy@fosstodon.org / @mkennedy.codes (bsky) Brian: @brianokken@fosstodon.org / @brianokken.bsky.social Show: @pythonbytes@fosstodon.org / @pythonbytes.fm (bsky) Join us on YouTube at pythonbytes.fm/live to be part of the audience. Usually Monday at 10am PT. Older video versions available there too. Finally, if you want an artisanal, hand-crafted digest of every week of the show notes in email form? Add your name and email to our friends of the show list, we'll never share it. Brian #1: Deprecations via warnings Deprecations via warnings don't work for Python libraries Seth Larson How to encourage developers to fix Python warnings for deprecated features Ines Panker Michael #2: docs A collaborative note taking, wiki and documentation platform that scales. Built with Django and React. Made for self hosting Docs is the result of a joint effort led by the French

Today we are talking about AI Marketing,Marketing Trends, and The caber toss with guest Hayden Baillio. We'll also cover Drupal core 11.3 as our module of the week. For show notes visit: https://www.talkingDrupal.com/532 Topics AI in Marketing: Hayden's Insights The Role of AI in Content Creation Challenges and Ethical Considerations of AI AI Training Data and Bias AI in Security Testing AI Replacing Jobs The Future of Marketing with AI Highland Games and Personal Hobbies Resources Drupal core 11.3 release highlights Carsinisation Guests Hayden Baillio - hounder.co hgbaillio Hosts Nic Laflin - nLighteneddevelopment.com nicxvan John Picozzi - epam.com johnpicozzi Fei Lauren - feilauren MOTW Correspondent Martin Anderson-Clutz - mandclu.com mandclu Brief description: Have you been wanting a version of Drupal core that moves away from the hooks system, has PHP 8.5 support, or has better support for asynchronous queries? The newly released Drupal core 11.3 has all these and more. Module name/project name: Drupal core 11.3 Brief history Created in the last few days (hopefully) by the time this episode is released Changes Performance improvements New MYSQLi database driver. In combination with the PHP Fibers support added in Drupal 10.2, this should allow Drupal sites to run much faster. Not all hosting environments will have PHP configured to work with the new driver, so for now the new driver is in an experimental core module you will need to install to try the new driver Drupal can now lazy load multiple entities at a time using Fibers PHP 8.5 support should also improve performance, as will a number of caching improvements Some early testing in the community indicates some significant improvements for pages loaded from cold cache, anywhere from 30 to 40% fewer queries One of the significant changes in Drupal core 11.2 was the addition of HTMX as the intended successor to Drupal's older AJAX system. Drupal core 11.3 includes some significant steps on the path to replacing all the places that AJAX system in core There's a new HTMX factory object with methods to abstract the specifics of the attributes and headers needed to implement HTMX HTMX is now used for the Form Builder and ConfigSingleExportForm BigPipe no longer uses the older AJAX API, which itself uses jQuery New Workspace Provider concept, will be interesting to see what new possibilities this creates New administer node published status permission, previously required the much broader "administer nodes" permission Drupal core 11.3 also includes some capabilities that previously required contrib modules Links created within CKEditor5 now dynamically link to the entity and when rendered will automatically point to the most recent alias. Previously Drupal sites needed the Linkit module, which has been part of Drupal CMS since its release at the start of the year Drupal CMS is also heavily based on Drupal's recipe system, which includes the ability to automatically import content included within a recipe. Until now you still needed the default_content module to export content as YAML for inclusion in a recipe. With Drupal 11.3 you can export all entities of a particular type, optionally filtered by bundle, and optionally including all dependencies Many of Drupal's remaining hooks, particularly those for themes, now have OOP class replacements, so we're now very close to being able to deprecate .module and .theme files Listeners may remember that the Navigation module was added as an experimental module in Drupal core 10.3. In 11.3, the module is now officially stable, so the rethought admin menu that originally debuted as part of the Gin admin theme is now fully realized in Drupal core SDCs can now be marked to be excluded from the UI, for example if they are meant to only be nested within other components Drupal core 11.3 also introduces some new deprecations: Migrate Drupal and Migrate Drupal UI officially deprecated now that Drupal 7 is EOL Also field_layout, which was ultimately superseded by Layout Builder Promoted and Sticky fields are now hidden by default (an issue created more than 20 years ago! A five digit issue ID) - the user who created it had a drop.org username lol Another issue that sets the "Promoted" default value to FALSE for new content types was also resolved, but only 15 years old. It had a six-digit issue ID - barely! Theme engines have been deprecated! This may be the last feature release of Drupal core before version 12, which could drop as early as June 2026 We'll include a link to the release highlights, but by the time you hear this there should also be an official announcement from Gabor and the DA with additional details

In this episode of The Effortless Podcast, Amit Prakash and Dheeraj Pandey dive deep into one of the most important shifts happening in AI today: the convergence of structured and unstructured data, interfaces, and systems.Together, they unpack how conversations—not CRM fields—hold the real ground truth; why schemas still matter in an AI-driven world; and how agents can evolve into true managers, coaches, and chiefs of staff for revenue teams. They explore the cognitive science behind visual vs conversational UI, the future of dynamically generated interfaces, and the product depth required to build enduring AI-native software.Amit and Dheeraj break down the tension between deterministic and probabilistic systems, the limits of prompt-driven workflows, and why the future of enterprise AI is “both-and” rather than “either-or.” It's a masterclass in modern product, data design, and the psychology of building intelligent tools.Key Topics & Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction02:00 – Why conversations—not CRM fields—hold real ground truth05:00 – Reps as labelers and the parallels with AI training pipelines08:00 – Business logic vs world models: defining meaning inside enterprises11:00 – Prompts flatten nuance; schemas restore structure14:00 – SQL schemas as the true model of a business17:00 – CRM overload and the friction of rigid data entry20:00 – AI agents that debrief and infer fields dynamically23:00 – Capturing qualitative signals: champions, pain, intent26:00 – Multi-source context: transcripts, email threads, Slack29:00 – Why structure is required for math, aggregation, forecasting32:00 – Aggregating unstructured data to reveal organizational issues35:00 – Labels, classification, and the limits of LLM-only workflows38:00 – Deterministic (SQL/Python) vs probabilistic (LLMs) systems41:00 – Transitional workflows: humans + AI field entry44:00 – Trust issues and the confusion of the early AI market47:00 – Avoiding “Clippy moments” in agent design50:00 – Latency, voice UX, and expectations for responsiveness53:00 – Human-machine interface for SDRs vs senior reps56:00 – Structured vs unstructured UI: cognitive science insights59:00 – Charts vs paragraphs: parallel vs sequential processing1:02:00 – The “Indian thali” dashboard problem and dynamic UI1:05:00 – Exploration modes, drill-downs, and empty prompts1:08:00 – Dynamic leaves, static trunk: designing hierarchy1:11:00 – Both-and thinking: voice + visual, structured + unstructured1:14:00 – Why “good enough” AI fails without deep product1:17:00 – PLG, SLG, data access, and trust barriers1:20:00 – Closing reflections and the future of AI-native softwareHosts: Amit Prakash – CEO and Founder at AmpUp, former engineer at Google AdSense and Microsoft Bing, with extensive expertise in distributed systems and machine learningDheeraj Pandey – Co-founder and CEO at DevRev, former Co-founder & CEO of Nutanix. A tech visionary with a deep interest in AI, systems, and the future of work.Follow the Hosts:Amit PrakashLinkedIn – Amit Prakash I LinkedInTwitter/X – https://x.com/amitp42Dheeraj PandeyLinkedIn –Dheeraj Pandey | LinkedIn Twitter/X – https://x.com/dheerajShare your thoughts : Have questions, comments, or ideas for future episodes?Email us at EffortlessPodcastHQ@gmail.comDon't forget to Like, Comment, and Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of AI, technology, and innovation.

TLDR: It was Claude :-)When I set out to compare ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, Grok, and ChatPRD for writing Product Requirement Documents, I figured they'd all be roughly equivalent. Maybe some subtle variations in tone or structure, but nothing earth-shattering. They're all built on similar transformer architectures, trained on massive datasets, and marketed as capable of handling complex business writing.What I discovered over 45 minutes of hands-on testing revealed not just which tools are better for PRD creation, but why they're better, and more importantly, how you should actually be using AI to accelerate your product work without sacrificing quality or strategic thinking.If you're an early or mid-career PM in Silicon Valley, this matters to you. Because here's the uncomfortable truth: your peers are already using AI to write PRDs, analyze features, and generate documentation. The question isn't whether to use these tools. The question is whether you're using the right ones most effectively.So let me walk you through exactly what I did, what I learned, and what you should do differently.The Setup: A Real-World Test CaseHere's how I structured the experiment. As I said at the beginning of my recording, “We are back in the Fireside PM podcast and I did that review of the ChatGPT browser and people seemed to like it and then I asked, uh, in a poll, I think it was a LinkedIn poll maybe, what should my next PM product review be? And, people asked for ChatPRD.”So I had my marching orders from the audience. But I wanted to make this more comprehensive than just testing ChatPRD in isolation. I opened up five tabs: ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, Grok, and ChatPRD.For the test case, I chose something realistic and relevant: an AI-powered tutor for high school students. Think KhanAmigo or similar edtech platforms. This gave me a concrete product scenario that's complex enough to stress-test these tools but straightforward enough that I could iterate quickly.But here's the critical part that too many PMs get wrong when they start using AI for product work: I didn't just throw a single sentence at these tools and expect magic.The “Back of the Napkin” Approach: Why You Still Need to Think“I presume everybody agrees that you should have some formulated thinking before you dump it into the chatbot for your PRD,” I noted early in my experiment. “I suppose in the future maybe you could just do, like, a one-sentence prompt and come out with the perfect PRD because it would just know everything about you and your company in the context, but for now we're gonna do this more, a little old-school AI approach where we're gonna do some original human thinking.”This is crucial. I see so many PMs, especially those newer to the field, treat AI like a magic oracle. They type in “Write me a PRD for a social feature” and then wonder why the output is generic, unfocused, and useless.Your job as a PM isn't to become obsolete. It's to become more effective. And that means doing the strategic thinking work that AI cannot do for you.So I started in Google Docs with what I call a “back of the napkin” PRD structure. Here's what I included:Why: The strategic rationale. In this case: “Want to complement our existing edtech business with a personalized AI tutor, uh, want to maintain position industry, and grow through innovation. on mission for learners.”Target User: Who are we building for? “High school students interested in improving their grades and fundamentals. Fundamental knowledge topics. Specifically science and math. Students who are not in the top ten percent, nor in the bottom ten percent.”This is key—I got specific. Not just “students,” but students in the middle 80%. Not just “any subject,” but science and math. This specificity is what separates useful AI output from garbage.Problem to Solve: What's broken? “Students want better grades. Students are impatient. Students currently use AI just for finding the answers and less to, uh, understand concepts and practice using them.”Key Elements: The feature set and approach.Success Metrics: How we'd measure success.Now, was this a perfectly polished PRD outline? Hell no. As you can see from my transcript, I was literally thinking out loud, making typos, restructuring on the fly. But that's exactly the point. I put in maybe 10-15 minutes of human strategic thinking. That's all it took to create a foundation that would dramatically improve what came out of the AI tools.Round One: Generating the Full PRDWith my back-of-the-napkin outline ready, I copied it into each tool with a simple prompt asking them to expand it into a more complete PRD.ChatGPT: The Reliable GeneralistChatGPT gave me something that was... fine. Competent. Professional. But also deeply uninspiring.The document it produced checked all the boxes. It had the sections you'd expect. The writing was clear. But when I read it, I couldn't shake the feeling that I was reading something that could have been written for literally any product in any company. It felt like “an average of everything out there,” as I noted in my evaluation.Here's what ChatGPT did well: It understood the basic structure of a PRD. It generated appropriate sections. The grammar and formatting were clean. If you needed to hand something in by EOD and had literally no time for refinement, ChatGPT would save you from complete embarrassment.But here's what it lacked: Depth. Nuance. Strategic thinking that felt connected to real product decisions. When it described the target user, it used phrases that could apply to any edtech product. When it outlined success metrics, they were the obvious ones (engagement, retention, test scores) without any interesting thinking about leading indicators or proxy metrics.The problem with generic output isn't that it's wrong, it's that it's invisible. When you're trying to get buy-in from leadership or alignment from engineering, you need your PRD to feel specific, considered, and connected to your company's actual strategy. ChatGPT's output felt like it was written by someone who'd read a lot of PRDs but never actually shipped a product.One specific example: When I asked for success metrics, ChatGPT gave me “Student engagement rate, Time spent on platform, Test score improvement.” These aren't wrong, but they're lazy. They don't show any thinking about what specifically matters for an AI tutor versus any other educational product. Compare that to Claude's output, which got more specific about things like “concept mastery rate” and “question-to-understanding ratio.”Actionable Insight: Use ChatGPT when you need fast, serviceable documentation that doesn't need to be exceptional. Think: internal updates, status reports, routine communications. Don't rely on it for strategic documents where differentiation matters. If you do use ChatGPT for important documents, treat its output as a starting point that needs significant human refinement to add strategic depth and company-specific context.Gemini: Better Than ExpectedGoogle's Gemini actually impressed me more than I anticipated. The structure was solid, and it had a nice balance of detail without being overwhelming.What Gemini got right: The writing had a nice flow to it. The document felt organized and logical. It did a better job than ChatGPT at providing specific examples and thinking through edge cases. For instance, when describing the target user, it went beyond demographics to consider behavioral characteristics and motivations.Gemini also showed some interesting strategic thinking. It considered competitive positioning more thoughtfully than ChatGPT and proposed some differentiation angles that weren't in my original outline. Good AI tools should add insight, not just regurgitate your input with better formatting.But here's where it fell short: the visual elements. When I asked for mockups, Gemini produced images that looked more like stock photos than actual product designs. They weren't terrible, but they weren't compelling either. They had that AI-generated sheen that makes it obvious they came from an image model rather than a designer's brain.For a PRD that you're going to use internally with a team that already understands the context, Gemini's output would work well. The text quality is strong enough, and if you're in the Google ecosystem (Docs, Sheets, Meet, etc.), the integration is seamless. You can paste Gemini's output directly into Google Docs and continue iterating there.But if you need to create something compelling enough to win over skeptics or secure budget, Gemini falls just short. It's good, but not great. It's the solid B+ student: reliably competent but rarely exceptional.Actionable Insight: Gemini is a strong choice if you're working in the Google ecosystem and need good integration with Docs, Sheets, and other Google Workspace tools. The quality is sufficient for most internal documentation needs. It's particularly good if you're working with cross-functional partners who are already in Google Workspace. You can share and collaborate on AI-generated drafts without friction. But don't expect visual mockups that will wow anyone, and plan to add your own strategic polish for high-stakes documents.Grok: Not Ready for Prime TimeLet's just say my expectations were low, and Grok still managed to underdeliver. The PRD felt thin, generic, and lacked the depth you need for real product work.“I don't have high expectations for grok, unfortunately,” I said before testing it. Spoiler alert: my low expectations were validated.Actionable Insight: Skip Grok for product documentation work right now. Maybe it'll improve, but as of my testing, it's simply not competitive with the other options. It felt like 1-2 years behind the others.ChatPRD: The Specialized ToolNow this was interesting. ChatPRD is purpose-built for PRDs, using foundational models underneath but with specific tuning and structure for product documentation.The result? The structure was logical, the depth was appropriate, and it included elements that showed understanding of what actually matters in a PRD. As I reflected: “Cause this one feels like, A human wrote this PRD.”The interface guides you through the process more deliberately than just dumping text into a general chat interface. It asks clarifying questions. It structures the output more thoughtfully.Actionable Insight: If you're a technical lead without a dedicated PM, or you're a PM who wants a more structured approach to using AI for PRDs, ChatPRD is worth the specialized focus. It's particularly good when you need something that feels authentic enough to share with stakeholders without heavy editing.Claude: The Clear WinnerBut the standout performer, and I'm ranking these, was Claude.“I think we know that for now, I'm gonna say Claude did the best job,” I concluded after all the testing. Claude produced the most comprehensive, thoughtful, and strategically sound PRD. But what really set it apart were the concept mocks.When I asked each tool to generate visual mockups of the product, Claude produced HTML prototypes that, while not fully functional, looked genuinely compelling. They had thoughtful UI design, clear information architecture, and felt like something that could actually guide development.“They were, like, closer to, like, what a Lovable would produce or something like that,” I noted, referring to the quality of low-fidelity prototypes that good designers create.The text quality was also superior: more nuanced, better structured, and with more strategic depth. It felt like Claude understood not just what a PRD should contain, but why it should contain those elements.Actionable Insight: For any PRD that matters, meaning anything you'll share with leadership, use to get buy-in, or guide actual product development, you might as well start with Claude. The quality difference is significant enough that it's worth using Claude even if you primarily use another tool for other tasks.Final Rankings: The Definitive HierarchyAfter testing all five tools on multiple dimensions: initial PRD generation, visual mockups, and even crafting a pitch paragraph for a skeptical VP of Engineering, here's my final ranking:* Claude - Best overall quality, most compelling mockups, strongest strategic thinking* ChatPRD - Best for structured PRD creation, feels most “human”* Gemini - Solid all-around performance, good Google integration* ChatGPT - Reliable but generic, lacks differentiation* Grok - Not competitive for this use case“I'd probably say Claude, then chat PRD, then Gemini, then chat GPT, and then Grock,” I concluded.The Deeper Lesson: Garbage In, Garbage Out (Still Applies)But here's what matters more than which tool wins: the realization that hit me partway through this experiment.“I think it really does come down to, like, you know, the quality of the prompt,” I observed. “So if our prompt were a little more detailed, all that were more thought-through, then I'm sure the output would have been better. But as you can see we didn't really put in brain trust prompting here. Just a little bit of, kind of hand-wavy prompting, but a little better than just one or two sentences.”And we still got pretty good results.This is the meta-insight that should change how you approach AI tools in your product work: The quality of your input determines the quality of your output, but the baseline quality of the tool determines the ceiling of what's possible.No amount of great prompting will make Grok produce Claude-level output. But even mediocre prompting with Claude will beat great prompting with lesser tools.So the dual strategy is:* Use the best tool available (currently Claude for PRDs)* Invest in improving your prompting skills ideally with as much original and insightful human, company aware, and context aware thinking as possible.Real-World Workflows: How to Actually Use This in Your Day-to-Day PM WorkTheory is great. Here's how to incorporate these insights into your actual product management workflows.The Weekly Sprint Planning WorkflowEvery PM I know spends hours each week preparing for sprint planning. You need to refine user stories, clarify acceptance criteria, anticipate engineering questions, and align with design and data science. AI can compress this work significantly.Here's an example workflow:Monday morning (30 minutes):* Review upcoming priorities and open your rough notes/outline in Google Docs* Open Claude and paste your outline with this prompt:“I'm preparing for sprint planning. Based on these priorities [paste notes], generate detailed user stories with acceptance criteria. Format each as: User story, Business context, Technical considerations, Acceptance criteria, Dependencies, Open questions.”Monday afternoon (20 minutes):* Review Claude's output critically* Identify gaps, unclear requirements, or missing context* Follow up with targeted prompts:“The user story about authentication is too vague. Break it down into separate stories for: social login, email/password, session management, and password reset. For each, specify security requirements and edge cases.”Tuesday morning (15 minutes):* Generate mockups for any UI-heavy stories:“Create an HTML mockup for the login flow showing: landing page, social login options, email/password form, error states, and success redirect.”* Even if the HTML doesn't work perfectly, it gives your designers a starting pointBefore sprint planning (10 minutes):* Ask Claude to anticipate engineering questions:“Review these user stories as if you're a senior engineer. What questions would you ask? What concerns would you raise about technical feasibility, dependencies, or edge cases?”* This preparation makes you look thoughtful and helps the meeting run smoothlyTotal time investment: ~75 minutes. Typical time saved: 3-4 hours compared to doing this manually.The Stakeholder Alignment WorkflowGetting alignment from multiple stakeholders (product leadership, engineering, design, data science, legal, marketing) is one of the hardest parts of PM work. AI can help you think through different stakeholder perspectives and craft compelling communications for each.Here's how:Step 1: Map your stakeholders (10 minutes)Create a quick table in a doc:Stakeholder | Primary Concern | Decision Criteria | Likely Objections VP Product | Strategic fit, ROI | Company OKRs, market opportunity | Resource allocation vs other priorities VP Eng | Technical risk, capacity | Engineering capacity, tech debt | Complexity, unclear requirements Design Lead | User experience | User research, design principles | Timeline doesn't allow proper design process Legal | Compliance, risk | Regulatory requirements | Data privacy, user consent flowsStep 2: Generate stakeholder-specific communications (20 minutes)For each key stakeholder, ask Claude:“I need to pitch this product idea to [Stakeholder]. Based on this PRD, create a 1-page brief addressing their primary concern of [concern from your table]. Open with the specific value for them, address their likely objection of [objection], and close with a clear ask. Tone should be [professional/technical/strategic] based on their role.”Then you'll have customized one-pagers for your pre-meetings with each stakeholder, dramatically increasing your alignment rate.Step 3: Synthesize feedback (15 minutes)After gathering stakeholder input, ask Claude to help you synthesize:“I got the following feedback from stakeholders: [paste feedback]. Identify: (1) Common themes, (2) Conflicting requirements, (3) Legitimate concerns vs organizational politics, (4) Recommended compromises that might satisfy multiple parties.”This pattern-matching across stakeholder feedback is something AI does really well and saves you hours of mental processing.The Quarterly Planning WorkflowQuarterly or annual planning is where product strategy gets real. You need to synthesize market trends, customer feedback, technical capabilities, and business objectives into a coherent roadmap. AI can accelerate this dramatically.Six weeks before planning:* Start collecting input (customer interviews, market research, competitive analysis, engineering feedback)* Don't wait until the last minuteFour weeks before planning:Dump everything into Claude with this structure:“I'm creating our Q2 roadmap. Context:* Business objectives: [paste from leadership]* Customer feedback themes: [paste synthesis]* Technical capabilities/constraints: [paste from engineering]* Competitive landscape: [paste analysis]* Current product gaps: [paste from your analysis]Generate 5 strategic themes that could anchor our Q2 roadmap. For each theme:* Strategic rationale (how it connects to business objectives)* Key initiatives (2-3 major features/projects)* Success metrics* Resource requirements (rough estimate)* Risks and mitigations* Customer segments addressed”This gives you a strategic framework to react to rather than starting from a blank page.Three weeks before planning:Iterate on the most promising themes:“Deep dive on Theme 3. Generate:* Detailed initiative breakdown* Dependencies on platform/infrastructure* Phasing options (MVP vs full build)* Go-to-market considerations* Data requirements* Open questions requiring research”Two weeks before planning:Pressure-test your thinking:“Play devil's advocate on this roadmap. What are the strongest arguments against each initiative? What am I likely missing? What failure modes should I plan for?”This adversarial prompting forces you to strengthen weak points before your leadership reviews it.One week before planning:Generate your presentation:“Create an executive presentation for this roadmap. Structure: (1) Market context and strategic imperative, (2) Q2 themes and initiatives, (3) Expected outcomes and metrics, (4) Resource requirements, (5) Key risks and mitigations, (6) Success criteria for decision. Make it compelling but data-driven. Tone: confident but not overselling.”Then add your company-specific context, visual brand, and personal voice.The Customer Research WorkflowAI can't replace talking to customers, but it can help you prepare better questions, analyze feedback more systematically, and identify patterns faster.Before customer interviews:“I'm interviewing customers about [topic]. Generate:* 10 open-ended questions that avoid leading the witness* 5 follow-up questions for each main question* Common cognitive biases I should watch for* A framework for categorizing responses”This prep work helps you conduct better interviews.After interviews:“I conducted 15 customer interviews. Here are the key quotes: [paste anonymized quotes]. Identify:* Recurring themes and patterns* Surprising insights that contradict our assumptions* Segments with different needs* Implied needs customers didn't articulate directly* Recommended next steps for validation”AI is excellent at pattern-matching across qualitative data at scale.The Crisis Management WorkflowSomething broke. The site is down. Data was lost. A feature shipped with a critical bug. You need to move fast.Immediate response (5 minutes):“Critical incident. Details: [brief description]. Generate:* Incident classification (Sev 1-4)* Immediate stakeholders to notify* Draft customer communication (honest, apologetic, specific about what happened and what we're doing)* Draft internal communication for leadership* Key questions to ask engineering during investigation”Having these drafted in 5 minutes lets you focus on coordination and decision-making rather than wordsmithing.Post-incident (30 minutes):“Write a post-mortem based on this incident timeline: [paste timeline]. Include:* What happened (technical details)* Root cause analysis* Impact quantification (users affected, revenue impact, time to resolution)* What went well in our response* What could have been better* Specific action items with owners and deadlines* Process changes to prevent recurrence Tone: Blameless, focused on learning and improvement.”This gives you a strong first draft to refine with your team.Common Pitfalls: What Not to Do with AI in Product ManagementNow let's talk about the mistakes I see PMs making with AI tools. Pitfall #1: Treating AI Output as FinalThe biggest mistake is copy-pasting AI output directly into your PRD, roadmap presentation, or stakeholder email without critical review.The result? Documents that are grammatically perfect but strategically shallow. Presentations that sound impressive but don't hold up under questioning. Emails that are professionally worded but miss the subtext of organizational politics.The fix: Always ask yourself:* Does this reflect my actual strategic thinking, or generic best practices?* Would my CEO/engineering lead/biggest customer find this compelling and specific?* Are there company-specific details, customer insights, or technical constraints that only I know?* Does this sound like me, or like a robot?Add those elements. That's where your value as a PM comes through.Pitfall #2: Using AI as a Crutch Instead of a ToolSome PMs use AI because they don't want to think deeply about the product. They're looking for AI to do the hard work of strategy, prioritization, and trade-off analysis.This never works. AI can help you think more systematically, but it can't replace thinking.If you find yourself using AI to avoid wrestling with hard questions (”Should we build X or Y?” “What's our actual competitive advantage?” “Why would customers switch from the incumbent?”), you're using it wrong.The fix: Use AI to explore options, not to make decisions. Generate three alternatives, pressure-test each one, then use your judgment to decide. The AI can help you think through implications, but you're still the one choosing.Pitfall #3: Not IteratingGetting mediocre AI output and just accepting it is a waste of the technology's potential.The PMs who get exceptional results from AI are the ones who iterate. They generate an initial response, identify what's weak or missing, and ask follow-up questions. They might go through 5-10 iterations on a key section of a PRD.Each iteration is quick (30 seconds to type a follow-up prompt, 30 seconds to read the response), but the cumulative effect is dramatically better output.The fix: Budget time for iteration. Don't try to generate a complete, polished PRD in one prompt. Instead, generate a rough draft, then spend 30 minutes iterating on specific sections that matter most.Pitfall #4: Ignoring the Political and Human ContextAI tools have no understanding of organizational politics, interpersonal relationships, or the specific humans you're working with.They don't know that your VP of Engineering is burned out and skeptical of any new initiatives. They don't know that your CEO has a personal obsession with a specific competitor. They don't know that your lead designer is sensitive about not being included early enough in the process.If you use AI-generated communications without layering in this human context, you'll create perfectly worded documents that land badly because they miss the subtext.The fix: After generating AI content, explicitly ask yourself: “What human context am I missing? What relationships do I need to consider? What political dynamics are in play?” Then modify the AI output accordingly.Pitfall #5: Over-Relying on a Single ToolDifferent AI tools have different strengths. Claude is great for strategic depth, ChatPRD is great for structure, Gemini integrates well with Google Workspace.If you only ever use one tool, you're missing opportunities to leverage different strengths for different tasks.The fix: Keep 2-3 tools in your toolkit. Use Claude for important PRDs and strategic documents. Use Gemini for quick internal documentation that needs to integrate with Google Docs. Use ChatPRD when you want more guided structure. Match the tool to the task.Pitfall #6: Not Fact-Checking AI OutputAI tools hallucinate. They make up statistics, misrepresent competitors, and confidently state things that aren't true. If you include those hallucinations in a PRD that goes to leadership, you look incompetent.The fix: Fact-check everything, especially:* Statistics and market data* Competitive feature claims* Technical capabilities and limitations* Regulatory and compliance requirementsIf the AI cites a number or makes a factual claim, verify it independently before including it in your document.The Meta-Skill: Prompt Engineering for PMsLet's zoom out and talk about the underlying skill that makes all of this work: prompt engineering.This is a real skill. The difference between a mediocre prompt and a great prompt can be 10x difference in output quality. And unlike coding or design, where there's a steep learning curve, prompt engineering is something you can get good at quickly.Principle 1: Provide Context Before InstructionsBad prompt:“Write a PRD for an AI tutor”Good prompt:“I'm a PM at an edtech company with 2M users, primarily high school students. We're exploring an AI tutor feature to complement our existing video content library and practice problems. Our main competitors are Khan Academy and Course Hero. Our differentiation is personalized learning paths based on student performance data.Write a PRD for an AI tutor feature targeting students in the middle 80% academically who struggle with science and math.”The second prompt gives Claude the context it needs to generate something specific and strategic rather than generic.Principle 2: Specify Format and ConstraintsBad prompt:“Generate success metrics”Good prompt:“Generate 5-7 success metrics for this feature. Include a mix of:* Leading indicators (early signals of success)* Lagging indicators (definitive success measures)* User behavior metrics* Business impact metricsFor each metric, specify: name, definition, target value, measurement method, and why it matters.”The structure you provide shapes the structure you get back.Principle 3: Ask for Multiple OptionsBad prompt:“What should our Q2 priorities be?”Good prompt:“Generate 3 different strategic approaches for Q2:* Option A: Focus on user acquisition* Option B: Focus on engagement and retention* Option C: Focus on monetizationFor each option, detail: key initiatives, expected outcomes, resource requirements, risks, and recommendation for or against.”Asking for multiple options forces the AI (and forces you) to think through trade-offs systematically.Principle 4: Specify Audience and ToneBad prompt:“Summarize this PRD”Good prompt:“Create a 1-paragraph summary of this PRD for our skeptical VP of Engineering. Tone: Technical, concise, addresses engineering concerns upfront. Focus on: technical architecture, resource requirements, risks, and expected engineering effort. Avoid marketing language.”The audience and tone specification ensures the output will actually work for your intended use.Principle 5: Use Iterative RefinementDon't try to get perfect output in one prompt. Instead:First prompt: Generate rough draft Second prompt: “This is too generic. Add specific examples from [our company context].” Third prompt: “The technical section is weak. Expand with architecture details and dependencies.” Fourth prompt: “Good. Now make it 30% more concise while keeping the key details.”Each iteration improves the output incrementally.Let me break down the prompting approach that worked in this experiment, because this is immediately actionable for your work tomorrow.Strategy 1: The Structured Outline ApproachDon't go from zero to full PRD in one prompt. Instead:* Start with strategic thinking - Spend 10-15 minutes outlining why you're building this, who it's for, and what problem it solves* Get specific - Don't say “users,” say “high school students in the middle 80% of academic performance”* Include constraints - Budget, timeline, technical limitations, competitive landscape* Dump your outline into the AI - Now ask it to expand into a full PRD* Iterate section by section - Don't try to perfect everything at onceThis is exactly what I did in my experiment, and even with my somewhat sloppy outline, the results were dramatically better than they would have been with a single-sentence prompt.Strategy 2: The Comparative Analysis PatternOne technique I used that worked particularly well: asking each tool to do the same specific task and comparing results.For example, I asked all five tools: “Please compose a one paragraph exact summary I can share over DM with a highly influential VP of engineering who is generally a skeptic but super smart.”This forced each tool to synthesize the entire PRD into a compelling pitch while accounting for a specific, challenging audience. The variation in quality was revealing—and it gave me multiple options to choose from or blend together.Actionable tip: When you need something critical (a pitch, an executive summary, a key decision framework), generate it with 2-3 different AI tools and take the best elements from each. This “ensemble approach” often produces better results than any single tool.Strategy 3: The Iterative Refinement LoopDon't treat the AI output as final. Use it as a first draft that you then refine through conversation with the AI.After getting the initial PRD, I could have asked follow-up questions like:* “What's missing from this PRD?”* “How would you strengthen the success metrics section?”* “Generate 3 alternative approaches to the core feature set”Each iteration improves the output and, more importantly, forces me to think more deeply about the product.What This Means for Your CareerIf you're an early or mid-career PM reading this, you might be thinking: “Great, so AI can write PRDs now. Am I becoming obsolete?”Absolutely not. But your role is evolving, and understanding that evolution is critical.The PMs who will thrive in the AI era are those who:* Excel at strategic thinking - AI can generate options, but you need to know which options align with company strategy, customer needs, and technical feasibility* Master the art of prompting - This is a genuine skill that separates mediocre AI users from exceptional ones* Know when to use AI and when not to - Some aspects of product work benefit enormously from AI. Others (user interviews, stakeholder negotiation, cross-functional relationship building) require human judgment and empathy* Can evaluate AI output critically - You need to spot the hallucinations, the generic fluff, and the strategic misalignments that AI inevitably producesThink of AI tools as incredibly capable interns. They can produce impressive work quickly, but they need direction, oversight, and strategic guidance. Your job is to provide that guidance while leveraging their speed and breadth.The Real-World Application: What to Do Monday MorningLet's get tactical. Here's exactly how to apply these insights to your actual product work:For Your Next PRD:* Block 30 minutes for strategic thinking - Write your back-of-the-napkin outline in Google Docs or your tool of choice* Open Claude (or ChatPRD if you want more structure)* Copy your outline with this prompt:“I'm a product manager at [company] working on [product area]. I need to create a comprehensive PRD based on this outline. Please expand this into a complete PRD with the following sections: [list your preferred sections]. Make it detailed enough for engineering to start breaking down into user stories, but concise enough for leadership to read in 15 minutes. [Paste your outline]”* Review the output critically - Look for generic statements, missing details, or strategic misalignments* Iterate on specific sections:“The success metrics section is too vague. Please provide 3-5 specific, measurable KPIs with target values and explanation of why these metrics matter.”* Generate supporting materials:“Create a visual mockup of the core user flow showing the key interaction points.”* Synthesize the best elements - Don't just copy-paste the AI output. Use it as raw material that you shape into your final documentFor Stakeholder Communication:When you need to pitch something to leadership or engineering:* Generate 3 versions of your pitch using different tools (Claude, ChatPRD, and one other)* Compare them for:* Clarity and conciseness* Strategic framing* Compelling value proposition* Addressing likely objections* Blend the best elements into your final version* Add your personal voice - This is crucial. AI output often lacks personality and specific company context. Add that yourself.For Feature Prioritization:AI tools can help you think through trade-offs more systematically:“I'm deciding between three features for our next release: [Feature A], [Feature B], and [Feature C]. For each feature, analyze: (1) Estimated engineering effort, (2) Expected user impact, (3) Strategic alignment with making our platform the go-to solution for [your market], (4) Risk factors. Then recommend a prioritization with rationale.”This doesn't replace your judgment, but it forces you to think through each dimension systematically and often surfaces considerations you hadn't thought of.The Uncomfortable Truth About AI and Product ManagementLet me be direct about something that makes many PMs uncomfortable: AI will make some PM skills less valuable while making others more valuable.Less valuable:* Writing boilerplate documentation* Creating standard frameworks and templates* Generating routine status updates* Synthesizing information from existing sourcesMore valuable:* Strategic product vision and roadmapping* Deep customer empathy and insight generation* Cross-functional leadership and influence* Critical evaluation of options and trade-offs* Creative problem-solving for novel situationsIf your PM role primarily involves the first category of tasks, you should be concerned. But if you're focused on the second category while leveraging AI for the first, you're going to be exponentially more effective than your peers who resist these tools.The PMs I see succeeding aren't those who can write the best PRD manually. They're those who can write the best PRD with AI assistance in one-tenth the time, then use the saved time to talk to more customers, think more deeply about strategy, and build stronger cross-functional relationships.Advanced Techniques: Beyond Basic PRD GenerationOnce you've mastered the basics, here are some advanced applications I've found valuable:Competitive Analysis at Scale“Research our top 5 competitors in [market]. For each one, analyze: their core value proposition, key features, pricing strategy, target customer, and likely product roadmap based on recent releases and job postings. Create a comparison matrix showing where we have advantages and gaps.”Then use web search tools in Claude or Perplexity to fact-check and expand the analysis.Scenario Planning“We're considering three strategic directions for our product: [Direction A], [Direction B], [Direction C]. For each direction, map out: likely customer adoption curve, required technical investments, competitive positioning in 12 months, and potential pivots if the hypothesis proves wrong. Then identify the highest-risk assumptions we should test first for each direction.”This kind of structured scenario thinking is exactly what AI excels at—generating multiple well-reasoned perspectives quickly.User Story GenerationAfter your PRD is solid:“Based on this PRD, generate a complete set of user stories following the format ‘As a [user type], I want to [action] so that [benefit].' Include acceptance criteria for each story. Organize them into epics by functional area.”This can save your engineering team hours of grooming meetings.The Tools Will Keep Evolving. Your Process Shouldn'tHere's something important to remember: by the time you read this, the specific rankings might have shifted. Maybe ChatGPT-5 has leapfrogged Claude. Maybe a new specialized tool has emerged.But the core principles won't change:* Do strategic thinking before touching AI* Use the best tool available for your specific task* Iterate and refine rather than accepting first outputs* Blend AI capabilities with human judgment* Focus your time on the uniquely human aspects of product managementThe specific tools matter less than your process for using them effectively.A Final Experiment: The Skeptical VP TestI want to share one more insight from my testing that I think is particularly relevant for early and mid-career PMs.Toward the end of my experiment, I gave each tool this prompt: “Please compose a one paragraph exact summary I can share over DM with a highly influential VP of engineering who is generally a skeptic but super smart.”This is such a realistic scenario. How many times have you needed to pitch an idea to a skeptical technical leader via Slack or email? Someone who's brilliant, who's seen a thousand product ideas fail, and who can spot b******t from a mile away?The quality variation in the responses was fascinating. ChatGPT gave me something that felt generic and safe. Gemini was better but still a bit too enthusiastic. Grok was... well, Grok.But Claude and ChatPRD both produced messages that felt authentic, technically credible, and appropriately confident without being overselling. They acknowledged the engineering challenges while framing the opportunity compellingly.The lesson: When the stakes are high and the audience is sophisticated, the quality of your AI tool matters even more. That skeptical VP can tell the difference between a carefully crafted message and AI-generated fluff. So can your CEO. So can your biggest customers.Use the best tools available, but more importantly, always add your own strategic thinking and authentic voice on top.Questions to Consider: A Framework for Your Own ExperimentsAs I wrapped up my Loom, I posed some questions to the audience that I'll pose to you:“Let me know in the comments, if you do your PRDs using AI differently, do you start with back of the envelope? Do you say, oh no, I just start with one sentence, and then I let the chatbot refine it with me? Or do you go way more detailed and then use the chatbot to kind of pressure test it?”These aren't rhetorical questions. Your answer reveals your approach to AI-augmented product work, and different approaches work for different people and contexts.For early-career PMs: I'd recommend starting with more detailed outlines. The discipline of thinking through your product strategy before touching AI will make you a stronger PM. You can always compress that process later as you get more experienced.For mid-career PMs: Experiment with different approaches for different types of documents. Maybe you do detailed outlines for major feature PRDs but use more iterative AI-assisted refinement for smaller features or updates. Find what optimizes your personal productivity while maintaining quality.For senior PMs and product leaders: Consider how AI changes what you should expect from your PM team. Should you be reviewing more AI-generated first drafts and spending more time on strategic guidance? Should you be training your team on effective AI usage? These are leadership questions worth grappling with.The Path Forward: Continuous ExperimentationMy experiment with these five AI tools took 45 minutes. But I'm not done experimenting.The field of AI-assisted product management is evolving rapidly. New tools launch monthly. Existing tools get smarter weekly. Prompting techniques that work today might be obsolete in three months.Your job, if you want to stay at the forefront of product management, is to continuously experiment. Try new tools. Share what works with your peers. Build a personal knowledge base of effective prompts and workflows. And be generous with what you learn. The PM community gets stronger when we share insights rather than hoarding them.That's why I created this Loom and why I'm writing this post. Not because I have all the answers, but because I'm figuring it out in real-time and want to share the journey.A Personal Note on Coaching and ConsultingIf this kind of practical advice resonates with you, I'm happy to work with you directly.Through my pm coaching practice, I offer 1:1 executive, career, and product coaching for PMs and product leaders. We can dig into your specific challenges: whether that's leveling up your AI workflows, navigating a career transition, or developing your strategic product thinking.I also work with companies (usually startups or incubation teams) on product strategy, helping teams figure out PMF for new explorations and improving their product management function.The format is flexible. Some clients want ongoing coaching, others prefer project-based consulting, and some just want a strategic sounding board for a specific decision. Whatever works for you.Reach out through tomleungcoaching.com if you're interested in working together.OK. Enough pontificating. Let's ship greatness. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit firesidepm.substack.com

Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ Jen Odess, Group Vice President of Partner Excellence at ServiceNow, joins Vince Menzione to discuss the company’s incredible transformation from an IT ticketing solution to a leading AI-native platform for business transformation. Jen dives deep into how ServiceNow has strategically invested in and infused AI into its unified platform over the last decade, enabling over a billion workflows daily. She also outlines the critical role of the partner ecosystem, which executes 87% of all implementations, and reveals the company’s strategic initiatives, including its commitment to the hyperscaler marketplaces, the goal to hit half a billion dollars in annual contract value for its Now Assist AI product, and the push for partners to adopt an ‘AI-native’ methodology to capitalize on the fact that customers still want over 70% of AI buying to be done through partners. Key Takeaways ServiceNow is an ‘AI-native’ company, having invested in and built AI directly into its unified platform for over a decade. The company’s core value today is in its unified AI platform, single data model, and leadership in workflows that connect the entire enterprise. ServiceNow will hit $500 million in annual contract value for its Now Assist AI products by the end of 2025, making it the fastest-growing product in company history. An astonishing 87% of all ServiceNow implementations are done by its global partner ecosystem, highlighting their crucial role. The company is leveraging the half-trillion-dollar opportunity of durable cloud budgets by driving marketplace transactions and helping customers burn down cloud commits using ServiceNow solutions. To win in the AI era, partners must adopt AI internally, co-innovate on the platform, and strategically differentiate themselves to rank higher in the forthcoming agentic matching system. Key Tags: ServiceNow, AI-native platform, Now Assist, Jen Odess, partner excellence, workflow leader, AI platform for business transformation, hyperscalers, Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, AWS, marketplace transactions, cloud commits, AIDA model, agentic matching, F-Pattern, Z-Pattern, group vice president, MSP, GSI, co-innovation, autonomous implementation, technical constraints, visual hierarchy, UX, UI, responsive design. Ultimate Partner is the independent community for technology leaders navigating the tectonic shifts in cloud, AI, marketplaces, and co-selling. Through live events, UPX membership, advisory, and the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® podcast, we help organizations align with hyperscalers, accelerate growth, and achieve their greatest results through successful partnering. Transcript: Jen Odess Audio Podcast [00:00:00] Jen Odess: The AI platform for business transformation, and I love to say to people, it sounds like a handful of cliche words that just got stacked together. The AI platform for business transformation. Yeah. We all know these words, so many companies use ’em, but it is such deliberate language and I love to explain why. [00:00:20] Vince Menzione: Welcome to, or welcome back to The Ultimate Guide to Partnering. I’m Vince Menzi on your host, and my mission is to help leaders like you achieve your greatest results through successful partnering. Today we have a special leader, Jen Odes is the GVP for Partner Excellence at ServiceNow. And joins me here in the studio in Boca Raton. [00:00:40] Vince Menzione: Jen, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Vince. It’s so great to be here. I am so thrilled to welcome you. To Boca Raton, Florida. Our podcast home look at this amazing background we have Here is this, and this is where we host our ultimate partner Winter retreat. Actually, in February, we’re gonna give that a plug. [00:00:58] Vince Menzione: Okay. I’d love to have you come back. I’d love to have an invite. And you flew in this morning from Washington DC [00:01:04] Jen Odess: I did. It was 20 degrees when I left my house this morning and this backdrop. Is definitely giving me, island South Florida like vibes. It’s fabulous. [00:01:13] Vince Menzione: And we’re gonna talk about ServiceNow. [00:01:14] Vince Menzione: And you’re also opening an office down here? We [00:01:17] Jen Odess: are [00:01:17] Vince Menzione: in West Palm Beach. Not too far from where we are. Yes. Later 2026. Yeah. I love that. And then so we’ll work on the recruiting year, but let’s dive in. Okay. So thrilled to have ServiceNow and to have you in the room. This has been an incredible time for your organization. [00:01:31] Vince Menzione: I have been watching, obviously I work with Microsoft. We’ve had Google. In the studio, Amazon onboard as well. And other than those three organizations, I can’t think of any other legacy organization that has embraced AI more succinctly than ServiceNow. And I thought we’d start there, but I really wanna spend some time getting to know you and getting to know your role, your mission, and your journey to this incredible. [00:01:57] Vince Menzione: Leadership role as a global vice president. We’ll talk about Or [00:02:01] Jen Odess: group. Group Vice president. I know it doesn’t roll off the tongue. I get it. A group vice president doesn’t roll. [00:02:05] Vince Menzione: G-V-P-G-V-P doesn’t roll off the time. And in some organizations it is global. It is in other organizations, it’s group. So let’s, you’re not [00:02:12] Jen Odess: the first to say global vice president. [00:02:14] Jen Odess: Okay. I’ll take either way. It’s fine. [00:02:15] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Yeah. And might be a promotion. Let’s talk. Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about you and your career journey and your mission. [00:02:22] Jen Odess: Yeah, so I’ve been at ServiceNow for five years. In fact, January will be like the five year anniversary and then it will be the beginning of my sixth year. [00:02:31] Jen Odess: Amazing. And I actually got hired originally to build out the initial partner enablement function. So it didn’t really exist five years ago. There was certainly enablement that happened to Sure. All individuals that were. Using, consuming, buying ServiceNow, working with ServiceNow. But the partner enablement function from pre to post-sale, that whole life cycle didn’t exist yet. [00:02:54] Jen Odess: So that was my initial job. I got hired to run partner enablement and it before. And how big [00:02:59] Vince Menzione: was your partner organization at that point? It must have been pretty small. [00:03:01] Jen Odess: It was actually not as small as you would think. Gosh, that’s a great question. You’re challenging my memory from five years ago. [00:03:08] Jen Odess: I know that we’re over 2,500 partners today and we add hundreds every year, so it had to have been in the low one thousands. Wow. Is where we were five years ago. But the maturity of the ecosystem is grossly larger today than it was then. I can imagine. So back then there was less than 30,000 individuals that were skilled on ServiceNow to sell or solution or deliver. [00:03:34] Jen Odess: Today there’s almost a hundred thousand. Wow. So yeah that’s like the maturity in the capability within the ecosystem. But before I start on my ServiceNow and my group vice president. Which is a great role, by the way. Group Vice President. Yeah. Partner Excellence group. I’m very proud of it. [00:03:49] Jen Odess: But but let me tell you what brought me here, please. So I actually came from a partner, but not in the ServiceNow ecosystem. Okay. I won’t name the partner, but let’s just say it’s a competitor, a competitive ecosystem. And I worked for a services shop that today I would refer to as multinational. [00:04:11] Jen Odess: Kind of a boutique darling, but with over 1,500 consultants, so Okay. A behemoth as well? Yeah. Privately held. And we were a force to be reckoned with, and it was really fun. I held so many roles. I was a customer success manager. I led the data science practice at one point. I ran global alliances and partnerships. [00:04:35] Jen Odess: At one point I was the chief of staff to the CEO at the time that company was acquired. Big global si. And and then at one point I even spun off for the big global SI and helped run a culture initiative to transform co corporate culture. Wow. Very inside the whole organization. Wow. That is very, yeah. [00:04:54] Jen Odess: Really interesting set of roles. And the whole reason I came to ServiceNow is by the time I was concluding that journey in that ecosystem on the services side, I felt like. I didn’t fully understand what it meant to be on the software product side. And I often felt like I approached friction or moments of frustration and heartache with resentment for the software company. [00:05:20] Jen Odess: Sure. Or maybe just a lack of empathy for what they must be going through as well. It always felt like I was on the kind of [00:05:26] Vince Menzione: negative you were on the other side of the table. Totally. [00:05:27] Jen Odess: Yeah. And, or maybe like the redheaded stepchild kind of a concept as a partner. And so I sought out to. Learn more, which is probably a big piece of my journey is just constant curiosity. [00:05:38] Jen Odess: Nice. And I thought I think the thing I’m missing is seeing what it means firsthand to be on the software product side. And that was what led me to a career at ServiceNow. Five years strong. Yeah. So [00:05:50] Vince Menzione: talk about partner experience for those who don’t know what that means. [00:05:53] Jen Odess: Yeah. Today my role is partner excellence, but it used to be partner experience. [00:05:58] Jen Odess: Okay. And so the don’t. Yeah, that’s normal to say both things. And they actually mean two very different things. [00:06:04] Vince Menzione: Yeah, I would say so. [00:06:05] Jen Odess: And we deliberately changed the title about a year ago. So today, partner Excellence is about really ensuring that we build a vibrant AI led ecosystem. And that’s from the whole life cycle of the partner, from the day they choose to be a partner and onboard, and hopefully to the day they’re just. [00:06:23] Jen Odess: Thriving and growing like crazy, and then across the whole life cycle of the customer pre to post sale. So it’s, we are almost like the underpinning and the infras infrastructure. Someone once said it’s like we’re the insurance policy of all global partnerships and channels. That’s how we operate across global partnerships and channels and service Now. [00:06:42] Vince Menzione: And you have a very intimate relationship with those partners. We’re gonna dive in on that as well. Yes. But let’s talk about this time like no other. I talk about tectonic shifts at all of our events. People that listen to our podcasts know we talk about the acceleration of transformation, and it’s happening so fast. [00:06:58] Vince Menzione: It was happening fast even during COVID. But then. I’ll call this date or time period, the November 20, 22 time period when Chat GPT launched. Oh yeah. And that really changed the world in many respects, right? Yeah. Microsoft had already leaned in with chat, GPT, Google, we talked to Google about this. [00:07:17] Vince Menzione: Even having them in the room was like, they were caught flatfooted in a way, and they had a lot of the technology and they didn’t lean in. But it feels like ServiceNow was one of the first, certainly on the ISV side of the house and refer to the term ISV. Loosely, because hyperscalers are ISVs as well. [00:07:34] Vince Menzione: They were early to lean in and have leaned it in such a way from a business application perspective that I believe we haven’t seen embracing and infusing AI into your platform. I was hoping we could dive in a little bit on ServiceNow from a. Kinda legacy, what the organization was and is today. [00:07:56] Vince Menzione: And then also this infusion of AI into the platform. If you don’t mind, [00:07:59] Jen Odess: I love this topic. Okay. And I feel like it’s such a privilege to talk about ServiceNow on this topic because we really are a leader in the category. I’ll almost rewind back to over 20 years ago when the company was founded. [00:08:11] Jen Odess: Today, fast forward, we are so much more than an IT ticketing company. We are, [00:08:16] Vince Menzione: but that was the legacy. That’s how I knew service now 20 years ago. [00:08:19] Jen Odess: And what a beautiful legacy. Yeah. But we have expanded immensely beyond that. And that’s the beautiful story to tell customers. That’s so fun. [00:08:28] Jen Odess: But what what I love is that. So 20 years ago, that was where we started. And today, do you know that over a billion workflows are put to work every single day for our customers? A billion [00:08:38] Vince Menzione: workflows, over a billion workflows. That’s crazy. [00:08:40] Jen Odess: And 87% of all implementations for ServiceNow were done by partnerships. [00:08:46] Jen Odess: And channels. That’s fantastic. So you think about those billion plus workflows daily, all because of our partner ecosystem. This is my small plug. I’m just very proud 80, proud 86%. [00:08:56] Vince Menzione: Did you hear that? Part’s 86%. [00:08:57] Jen Odess: Amazing. And so that’s like what we’re, that’s what we’re a leader in the category. We are a leader in workflows categorically. [00:09:05] Jen Odess: But then over a decade ago, we started investing in ai. We started building it right into our platform, and this becomes the next kind of notch on our belt, which is we are a unified platform. Nothing is bolted on, nothing is just apid in. Yeah, it is a unified platform. So all of that AI that for the past decade we’ve been building in into our platform. [00:09:28] Jen Odess: Just in our AI platform, which is now what we are calling it, the AI platform. [00:09:34] Vince Menzione: And I would say that unless you were a startup starting up from scratch today and building on an LLM, we were building in a way I don’t think any other organization’s gonna actually state that [00:09:45] Jen Odess: what’s actually why we call ourselves AI native. [00:09:47] Jen Odess: Yeah, beca for that exact reason. And that’s who we’re competing with a lot these days, is the truly AI native startups where they didn’t have, the 20 years. Previously that we had, but that’s what makes us so unique in the situation, is that unified AI platform, a single data model that can connect to anything. [00:10:07] Jen Odess: And then the workflow leader. And when you put all those things together, AI plus data, plus workflows and that’s where the magic happens. Yeah. Across the enterprise. It’s pretty cool. [00:10:17] Vince Menzione: That is very cool. And you start thinking about, and we start talking about agent as a, as an example. Let’s talk about this for a second. [00:10:23] Vince Menzione: You, when what is this bolt-on, we could use the terms co-pilot, we could use Ag Agent ai, but they are generally bolted onto an existing application today. So take us through the 10 years and how it has become a portion or a significant portion. Of ServiceNow. [00:10:41] Jen Odess: When say the question a little bit more. [00:10:43] Jen Odess: Like when you say it’s, yeah, when which examples have bolted on? [00:10:47] Vince Menzione: So exa, we, what we see today is the hyperscalers coming out with their own solution sets, right? They’re taking and they’re offering it up to their ecosystem to infuse it into their product and portfolio. To me, those that look like bolted on in many respects, unless it’s an AI need as a native organization, a startup organization. [00:11:07] Vince Menzione: They’re mostly taking and re-engineering or bolting onto their existing solutions. [00:11:12] Jen Odess: I follow. Yeah. Thank you for giving me a little more context. So I call this our any problem. It’s like one of the best problems to have we can connect into. Anything, any cloud, any ai, any platform, any system, any data, any workflow, and that’s where any hyperscaler, and that’s the part that makes it so incredible. [00:11:32] Jen Odess: So your word is bolt on, and I use the word any the, any problem. Yeah. We’ve got this beautiful kind of stack visual that just, it’s like it just one on top of the other. Any. Any, and no one else can really say that. I gotta see [00:11:45] Vince Menzione: that visual. Yeah. Yeah. So talk about this a little bit more. So you’re uniquely positioned. [00:11:52] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about how you position, you talked about being AI native. What does that imply and what does that mean in terms of the evolution of the platform? From ticketing to workflows to the business applications? What are the type of applications Yeah. Markets, industries that you’re starting to see. [00:12:08] Jen Odess: So I’ll actually answer this with, taking on a small, maybe marketing or positioning journey. So there was a time when our tagline would be The World Works with ServiceNow. There was a time when it was, we put AI to work for people and today and it, I think it was around Knowledge 2025, this came out. [00:12:28] Jen Odess: It was the AI platform for business transformation. And I love to say to people, it sounds like a handful of. Cliche words that just got stacked together. The AI platform for business transformation. Yeah. We all know these words, so many companies use ’em, but it is such deliberate language and I love to explain why. [00:12:46] Jen Odess: So the first is the AI platform is calling out that we are an AI native platform. We are a unified platform. It’s a chance to say all that goodness I already shared with you. Yeah. And the business transformation is actually telling the story of no longer being a solution. Point or no longer being an individual product that does X. [00:13:06] Jen Odess: It’s about saying. The ServiceNow platform can go north to south and east to west across your entire enterprise. Okay. Up and down the entire tech stack. Any. And then east to west, it can cut across the enterprise, the C-suite, the buying centers, all into one unified AI platform. With one data model. [00:13:26] Jen Odess: I love it. And so I love that AI platform for business transformation actually has so much purpose. [00:13:32] Vince Menzione: It does. So you’re going across the stack, so you’re going all the way from the bottom layer, all the way up to the top from the ue. Ui. And then you’re going across the organization, right? You’re going across the C-suite, you’re going across all the business functions of an organization. [00:13:46] Vince Menzione: Correct. And so the workflows are going across each of those business functions? [00:13:49] Jen Odess: Correct. And then our AI control tower is sitting at the very top, governing over all of it. [00:13:53] Vince Menzione: I love the control tower. [00:13:54] Jen Odess: I know the governance, security risk protocol, managing all the agents interoperability. Yeah. [00:14:01] Vince Menzione: And then data at the very bottom right. [00:14:03] Vince Menzione: Controlling all those elements and the governance of the data and the right, the cleanliness of the data and so on. Yeah. That’s incredible. I we could probably talk about business applications. I know one, in fact, I’ve had a person sit in this, your chair from we’ll call it a large GSIA very significant GSI one of the top five. [00:14:21] Vince Menzione: And they took ServiceNow and they applied it to their business partnering function. And they used, and we, you probably don’t know about this one, but I know that that’s a, an example of taking it and applying it all across all the workflows, across all the geographies of the organization and taking a lot of the process that was all done manually. [00:14:40] Vince Menzione: That was stove pipe business processes that were all stove piped and removing the stove pipe and making for a fluid organizational flow. [00:14:47] Jen Odess: And I’ll bet you the end user didn’t even realize ServiceNow was the backend. That’s some of the greatest examples actually. [00:14:53] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Yeah. So Jen, we work with all the hyperscalers. [00:14:56] Vince Menzione: We have a very strong relationship with Microsoft. Goes back many years, my back to my days at Microsoft and we’ve had Google in the room. We have AWS now as well. We bring them all together because we believe that partners work with, need to work with all three. And I know that you have had an interesting transformation at ServiceNow around the hyperscalers. [00:15:16] Vince Menzione: I was hoping you could dive in a little deeper with us. [00:15:19] Jen Odess: Yeah. We are so proud of our relationships with the hyperscalers, so the same three, so it’s Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, and AWS. And really it’s it’s a strategic 360 partnership and our goal is really to drive marketplace transactions. [00:15:34] Jen Odess: So ServiceNow selling in all of their marketplaces and then. Burn down of our customers cloud commits. I love it. It’s really a beautiful story for our customers and for the hyperscalers and for ServiceNow. And so we’ve, it’s brand, it’s a brand new announcement from late in the year 2025. Love it. And we’re really excited about it. [00:15:51] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And then we, and we get all of the marketplace leaders in the room. So we’ve worked with all of those people. And one of the key points about this is there is over a half a trillion dollars in durable cloud budgets with customers that [00:16:08] Vince Menzione: Already committed to, I know, so that tam available, a half a trillion dollars is available to customers to burn down and utilize your solutions and professional services with partners as well in terms of driving a complete solution. [00:16:21] Jen Odess: That’s exactly the motion we’re pushing is to go and leverage those cloud commits to get on ServiceNow and in some cases, maybe even take out other products to go with ServiceNow and actually end up funding the transition to ServiceNow. Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:37] Vince Menzione: So you serve thousands of customers today, thousands of customers. [00:16:42] Vince Menzione: I can’t even. Fathom the exact number, but you have this partner ecosystem that you described, and their reach is even more incredible, like hundreds of thousands. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about how you think about that, and then how do you drive the partner ecosystem in the right way to drive this partner excellence that you described. [00:17:02] Jen Odess: Yeah, that’s a great question. So yeah, thousands of ServiceNow customers and we’re barely scratching the surface in comparison to our partners customers. So we have over 2,500 partners Wow. In our ecosystem. And today they cut across what I would call five routes to market. That partners can go to market with ServiceNow. [00:17:21] Jen Odess: Okay. The first is consulting and implementation. This will be your classic kind of consulting shop or GSI approach. The second is resell, just like it sounds. Yep. [00:17:30] Vince Menzione: Transactional. [00:17:31] Jen Odess: Yep. The third is managed service provider. [00:17:33] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:17:34] Jen Odess: The fourth is what we call build, which is. The ISV, strategic Tech partner realm, and then the fifth is hyperscaler. [00:17:43] Jen Odess: Those are the five routes to market. So partners can choose to be in one or all or two. It doesn’t matter. It’s whichever one fits the kind of business they want to go drive. Nice. Where they’re. Expertise lies. And then we’ve got partners that show up globally, partners that show up multinational and partners that show up regionally and then partners that show up locally, in country and that’s it. [00:18:06] Jen Odess: And we really want a diverse set of partners capable of delivering where any of our customers are. So it’s important that we have that dynamic ecosystem where we really push them. We’re actually trying hard to balance this. Yeah, you would’ve heard it from many of your other partners. This direct versus indirect. [00:18:24] Jen Odess: Yes. Motion. For anyone listening that doesn’t know the difference, right? Direct is ServiceNow is selling direct to a customer, there might be a partner involved influencing that will implement. Yeah, likely but ServiceNow is really driving the sale versus indirect where the whole thing routes through the partner. [00:18:39] Jen Odess: Right? Which is your classic reseller or managed service provider and often a an ISV. And you know that balance is never gonna be perfect ’cause we’re not gonna commit to go all direct or all indirect. We’re gonna continue to sit in this space where we’re trying to find a healthy balance. [00:18:56] Jen Odess: So I find a lot of our time trying to figure out how do you set all those parties up for success? Yeah. The parties are the ServiceNow field sellers? And then you’ve also got the partnerships and channels, so the ecosystem, and then you’ve got the people in global partnerships and channels. So my broader organization, and we’re all trying to figure out how to work harmoniously together and it’s a lot of, it is my job to get us there. [00:19:19] Jen Odess: And so we use lots of things like incentives and benefits and we will put in place gated entry, really strategic gated entry. What does [00:19:29] Vince Menzione: gated entry mean? [00:19:30] Jen Odess: Yeah. What I mean is if you want to have a chance at being matched with a customer Yeah. For a very specific deal. Or it’s really one of three to get matched. [00:19:41] Jen Odess: ‘Cause you can never match one-to-one. It has to be three or more. Okay. We have good compliance rules in place. Yeah. But in order to even. Like surface to the top of the list to be matched. There’s a gated entry, which is, you’ve gotta have validated practices. Okay. Which is how, it’s these various ways, as you described, you quantify and qualify the partner’s capabilities. [00:20:00] Vince Menzione: Yeah. So you have to meet these qualifications. Yes. And you could be one of three to enter and be. Potentially matched, considered significant or Yes. Match for this deal? [00:20:08] Jen Odess: Yes, that’s exactly right. So we use, various things like that. And then we try to carve what I would call dance card space reseller in commercial, try to sit here and like carve by geo, by region, by country dance card space as well to help the partners really know exactly where they can unleash versus, hey, this is the process and the rules of engagement. To go and sell alongside the direct org sales organization [00:20:33] Vince Menzione: and you’re gonna have multiple partners in the same opportunities. [00:20:37] Vince Menzione: Absolutely not. Not necessarily competing with each other. There’s three competing each with each other, but also you’re gonna have other partners that provide different capabilities as well. You might have that have some that are just transac. Those are gonna be those channel or reseller partners. [00:20:52] Vince Menzione: You might have an MSP that’s actually delivering, or at least providing some type of managed service on top of the stack. Like supporting the customer. Yeah. And then you might have an SI GSI an integration partner that’s also doing the con the consulting work around getting the solution to meet with the customer’s requirements. [00:21:12] Vince Menzione: Would you say [00:21:13] Jen Odess: so? That’s exactly right. Yeah. And actually in. AI era, we’re seeing more of it than ever. And even on the smaller deals, maybe not the GSIs on the smaller deals, but we’re seeing multiple partners come in to serve up their specific expertise, which is actually a best practice. That’s [00:21:33] Vince Menzione: terrific. [00:21:33] Jen Odess: We don’t want. If you’ve got an area that’s a blind spot and you’re a partner, but that’s something your customer is buying from you, there’s no harm in saying let’s bring in an expert in that category to deliver that piece of the business. That’s right. And we’ll maybe shadow and watch alongside. [00:21:46] Jen Odess: So we’re seeing more and more of it. And I actually think like the world of. Partnerships and ecosystems. If I go back to like my previous ecosystem as well, it’s become so much more communal than ever before. Yes. This idea that we can share and be more open and maybe even commiserate over the things, gosh, I can’t believe we have the same frustrations or we have the same. [00:22:09] Jen Odess: Wow, that’s amazing. And you’re in this country. And I’m in this country. And so we’re seeing more and more coming together on deals which I really respect a lot. ’cause So one of the new facts we’ve just learned actually, Vince, is that. Of all the ai buying that customers are doing out there, they actually still want over 70% of it to be done by partners. [00:22:32] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:22:33] Jen Odess: So even though it looks like it could be maybe set up easy configured, easy plug and play it. It to get, it’s not real ROI. You still need a partner with expertise in that industry or that domain, or in that location or in that language to come and bring the value to life. And we will certainly accelerate, help accelerate time to value with things that ServiceNow will do for our partners. [00:22:56] Jen Odess: But if over 70% is gonna go to partners and AI is so new, wouldn’t you want more than one partner Sometimes on a absolutely on a deal, at least while we’re all learning. I think we can keep ebbing and flowing [00:23:07] Vince Menzione: on this. We you, I dunno if Jay McBain, ’cause we’ve had him in the room here and he is a, he’s an analyst that does a lot of work around this topic. [00:23:14] Vince Menzione: And we talk about the seven seats at the table because there are, again, you need more you, first of all, you need to have your trusted, you need to have the organizations that you work with. And you also, in the world of ai, with all of the tectonic shifts, all the constant changing that’s going on right now, I need to make sure that I have the right. [00:23:31] Vince Menzione: People by my side that I can trust, they can help me deliver what I need to deliver. ’cause it might have changed from six months ago. And the technology is changing. Everything is changing so rapidly right now. So again, having all those right people I want to pick up on something ’cause we talked a little bit about MSPs and they’ve become a favorite topic of ours. [00:23:52] Vince Menzione: I have become acutely aware of the Ms P community recently. I kinda looked at them as well. There’s little small partners, but you’ve suggested this as well. They have regional expert, they have expertise in a specific area. And can be trusted, and maybe you’re integrating multiple solution sets for a customer. [00:24:11] Vince Menzione: But we’ve seen this MSP community become very vibrant lately, and I feel like they woke up to technology and to AI in such a big way. Can you comment on that? [00:24:20] Jen Odess: So we feel and see the same thing I’ve always valued what managed service providers bring to the table. It’s like that. [00:24:26] Jen Odess: Classic are you a transformation shop or are you a ta? The tail end or the run business shop? And so many partners are like we’re both, and I wanna be like, but are you? But now I feel like we finally are seeing the run business is so fruitful. So AI is innovating. All the time. [00:24:46] Jen Odess: We, we are innovating as a AI platform all the time. What used to be six month, every six months family releases of our software. Yeah. It became quarterly and now we’re practically seeing releases of new innovation every six to eight weeks. So why wouldn’t you want a managed service provider? Paying close attention to your whole instance on ServiceNow and taking into account all the latest innovation and building it into your existing instance, and then looking out for what new things you should be bringing in. [00:25:20] Jen Odess: So that’s the beauty of the, it’s almost partnerships, observing, and then suggesting how to keep. Doing better and more and better versus always jumping straight back to complete redesign and transformation. Yeah, and that’s one of the things I like about the MSPs in this space. [00:25:36] Vince Menzione: So let’s broaden out from this part of the conversation ’cause you’re giving specific guidance to the MSPs, but let’s think about this whole partner community. [00:25:43] Vince Menzione: And you’ve seen this transformation coming over to ServiceNow and even within ServiceNow these last five years. How do these organizations need to think differently? And how do they need to structure their services in this newent world? [00:25:58] Jen Odess: Great question. There’s really four things that I think they have to be thoughtful of. [00:26:02] Jen Odess: The first is maybe the most obvious they have to adopt AI as their own ways of doing work methodology. Delivery, whatever it is, because only through the, it’s not about taking out people in jobs, it’s about doing the job faster, right? It’s about getting the customer to value faster so that adoption of AI will make or break some partners. [00:26:24] Jen Odess: And our goal is that every partner comes on the other side of this AI journey, thriving and surviving. So we’re really pushing. This agenda. And maybe later I can talk to you a little bit more about this autonomous implementation concept. Please. ’cause I that will [00:26:37] Vince Menzione: resonate. So you’re saying they need to, we used to use the term eat their own dog food. [00:26:41] Vince Menzione: Now it’s drink your own champagne. Yeah. But they need to adopt it as well internally. [00:26:46] Jen Odess: Yeah. And I think whether they’re using, I hope they’re using ServiceNow as like a client, zero. To do some of that adoption. But there’s lots of other tools that are great AI tools that will make your job and your day-to-day life and the execution of that job easier. [00:26:59] Jen Odess: So we want them adopting all of that. The second is, we really need to see partners. Innovating on the ServiceNow platform. Yeah. And whether that’s building agents AI agents that go into the ServiceNow store, whether it’s building a really fantastic solution that we wanna joint jointly go to market with, or maybe it’s one of those embedded solutions you were commenting where the end user doesn’t even know that the backend, like a tax and audit solution that is actually just. [00:27:29] Jen Odess: The backend is all ServiceNow. Yeah. But that partner is going to market and selling it to all their customers. Exactly. So I think this co-innovation is gonna be a place that we will really win in market. The third is if a partner wants to stand out right now, they have to differentiate on paper too. [00:27:47] Jen Odess: It’s gotta like what does that mean? So if there’s 2,500 partners. And it’s not like we don’t walk around and just say, you should talk to this partner. Yeah. Or here’s my secret list. You should, we don’t do that. That’s not good business and it’s not compliant. So we have algorithms that take all the quantitative and qualitative data on our partners and they know all the data points ’cause it’s part of the partner program Nice. [00:28:10] Jen Odess: That they adhere to and then ranks them on status. And all those data points are what I’m referring to as on paper. You’ve gotta be differentiated. So whether or not you wanna be great at one thing or great across the whole thing, think about how all of those quantitative and qualitative data points are making you stand out, because that’s where those matches that I was referring to. [00:28:35] Jen Odess: Yes. That’s where that’s gonna come to life. And it’s skills, it’s capabilities. It’s deployments. So Proofpoint and deployments, customer success stories, csat, all the things. So [00:28:47] Vince Menzione: those are all the qualifi qualifiers for and more, but those are the types [00:28:49] Jen Odess: of qualifications. Yeah. [00:28:51] Vince Menzione: And then do your, does your sales organization do a match against that based on a customer’s requirements that they’re working with and who they work with and co-sell with? [00:29:00] Jen Odess: And I feel like you just lobbed me the greatest question. I didn’t even know you were gonna ask it, but I’m so glad you did. So today. Today there is something called a partner finder, which is which is nice, but it’s a little bit old school in a world of ai. Yeah. So you go to servicenow.com, you click partner from the top navigation, and then it says find a partner and you can literally type in the products you’re buying the country, you’re, that you’re headquartered out of. [00:29:26] Jen Odess: Whatever thing you’re looking for. And it will start to filter based on all those data points, the right partners, and you can actually click right there to be connected to a partner. So lead generation. Okay, interesting. But where we’re going is a agentic matching right in our CRM for the field. Oh. So those data points are gonna matter even more, and that’s where the gated. [00:29:48] Jen Odess: I say gated entry, which is probably too extreme, right? It’s really gated. If you wanna surface toward the top, there’s gated parameters to try to surface to the top, but those data points will feed the algorithm and it will genetically match right in our CRM for the field. Who are the best suited partners? [00:30:09] Jen Odess: Would you like to talk to them? [00:30:10] Vince Menzione: Okay. And so is it. Partner facing? Is it sales team facing [00:30:14] Jen Odess: Right now? It’s sales. It’ll, when it goes live, it will be sales team facing. Okay. But we have greater ambition for what partners can do with it. Yeah. Not just in the indirect motion, but also what partners may be able to do with it to interface with our field. [00:30:30] Jen Odess: The. [00:30:31] Vince Menzione: The, yeah the collaboration [00:30:33] Jen Odess: opportunity. Which is always a friction point that we’re working on [00:30:36] Vince Menzione: always because it’s very manual. It’s people intensive. Yeah. Partner development managers sitting on both sides of the equation and the interface between the sales organization and a partner organization is not always the. The easiest. So right. Automated, quite a bit of that. [00:30:49] Jen Odess: My boss is obsessed with the easy button, which I know is a phrase many of us in the US know from I think it’s an Office Depot, all these ways in which we can have easy button moments for the partner ecosystem is what we’re trying to focus on. [00:31:01] Jen Odess: I love the easy button. [00:31:02] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And I love your boss too. Yeah, he’s fabulous. Fabulous. So Michael and I go back like many years ago. You must have, [00:31:08] Jen Odess: yeah. You must have had paths crossing on numerous occasions. [00:31:12] Vince Menzione: Yeah we we worked together micro I’m going to hijack the session for a second here. [00:31:16] Vince Menzione: But when I first came to Microsoft, he was leading a, the se, a segment of the business, and he invited me to come to his event and interviewed me on stage at his event. [00:31:26] Jen Odess: No way. [00:31:26] Vince Menzione: And we got to know each other and yeah. So he was terrific. He was what a great find for, oh, he’s for service now. [00:31:32] Vince Menzione: He’s really [00:31:32] Jen Odess: has been a fantastic addition [00:31:34] Vince Menzione: to the global partnerships and channels team. And Michael, we have to have you on the podcast. Yes. Or cut down here in the studio at some point too with Jen and I. That’d be great. So this is terrific. We are getting it’s an incredible time. [00:31:44] Vince Menzione: It’s going so fast this time, 2022 was, seems like it was five, it feels like it was almost 10 years ago now. It wasn’t that we just started talking about it and you were implementing AI 10 years ago, but it wasn’t getting the attention that it’s getting today. And it really wasn’t until that moment that it really started to kick off in a way that everybody, yeah. It became pervasive overnight I would say. But now we’re starting 2026, like we’re at. This precipice of time and it’s continuing. I don’t even know what 2030 is gonna look like, right? So I’m a partner. [00:32:16] Vince Menzione: What are the one, two, or three things that I need to do now to win over and work with ServiceNow? [00:32:23] Jen Odess: One, two or three things? I’ll tell you the first thing. So today ServiceNow will end up hitting 500 million in annual contract value in our Now Assist, which is our AI products by the end of 2025, which is the fastest growing product in all of ServiceNow history. [00:32:37] Jen Odess: That’s one product that’s so there’s lots of SKUs. Yeah, but it is. It’s our AI product. Yeah. And it is, but yeah, because of all the various ways. [00:32:45] Vince Menzione: So half a billion dollars, [00:32:46] Jen Odess: half a billion by the end of 2025. And I think, someone’s gonna have to keep me honest here, but if memory serves me right, the first skews didn’t even launch until 2024. [00:32:54] Jen Odess: So we’re talking about wow, in a year it’s fast. Over 1,700 customers are live with our now assist products. Again, in a matter of, let’s call it over, a little over a year, 1,700 partners. So I think the first thing a partner needs to do is they’ve gotta get on this AI bandwagon, and they’ve gotta be selling and positioning AI use cases to their customers, because that’s the only way they’re gonna get. [00:33:20] Jen Odess: Experience and an opportunity to see what it feels like to deliver. So we have to do that. And I think you could sell a big use case like that big, we talked north, south, east, west, you could do that whole thing. Brilliant. But you could also start small. Go pick a single use case. Like a really simple example of something you wanna, some work you wanna drive productivity on. [00:33:41] Jen Odess: Yeah. And make sure you’ve got multiple stakeholders that love it and then go drive proving that use case. That’s what we’re telling a lot of partners. That’s the first thing. The second is they have got to build skills on AI and they have to keep up with it. And so we’re trying to really think about our broader learning and development team at ServiceNow is just next level. [00:34:00] Jen Odess: And they’re really re-imagining how to have more real time bite size. Training and enablement that will help individuals keep up with that pace of innovation. So individuals have got to get skilled. Yes. On AI today, of that a hundred thousand or so individuals in the ecosystem right now, about 35% of those individuals hold one or more AI credential. [00:34:25] Jen Odess: Again, that’s in a little over a year, which is the fastest growing skill development we’ve ever had, but it should be a hundred percent. Yeah. All of our goals should be that every account is being sold ai. ’cause that’s where the customer’s gonna get to value a ServiceNow is if they have the AI capabilities. [00:34:40] Jen Odess: And [00:34:41] Vince Menzione: how are you providing enablement and training? Is it all online? It’s, we have [00:34:44] Jen Odess: all sorts of ways of doing it. So that we have ServiceNow University, which is just a really robust, learning platform. Elba is our professor in residence. Very cool. Which is very cool. And they’re all content. [00:34:57] Jen Odess: Is free to partners. The training is free to partners that is on demand. Beyond that, partners can still get, instructor led training, whether that’s in person or virtual. And then my team offers enablement. That’s a little bit more, it’s like not formal training, it’s more like hands-on labs and experiences. [00:35:17] Jen Odess: We bring in lots of groups that sit around me that help and we very cool hands on with partners face-to-face. And do you do an annual event where you bring all these partners together? No, because we do we have three major milestones a year for partners. So the first is at sales kickoff, which is coming up the third week in January. [00:35:33] Jen Odess: And alongside sales kickoff is partner kickoff. Okay. And so we do a whole day of enabling them. So that’s your [00:35:39] Vince Menzione: partner kickoff? [00:35:40] Jen Odess: That’s partner kickoff. But of the, of all the partners in the ecosystem, it’s not like they can all make it. So we still also record and then live stream some of the content there. [00:35:49] Jen Odess: Then at Knowledge, there’s a whole partner track at Knowledge and same concept. Yeah, it’s like it’s all about customers and we wanna, build as much pipeline and wow as many customers as possible, but we also need to help our partners come along the journey. Then the third and final moment is in September, always, and it’s called our Global Partner Ecosystem Summit. [00:36:08] Jen Odess: We should have you, I’d love to join this next year. I love that. And it’s really, that’s the one time if sales kickoff is all about the sales motion in the field and knowledge is all about the customers and getting customers value. Global Partner Ecosystem Summit is only about the partners, what they need, why they need it, and what we’re doing to make their lives easier. [00:36:28] Jen Odess: I love it. Yeah. I’ll be there September. I love it. Dates yet set yet? I have to, it’s getting locked. I’ll get it to you. [00:36:34] Vince Menzione: Okay. All right. I’ll, we’ll be there. Okay. So you’ve been incredible. I just love having you. We could spend hours, honestly, and I want to have you back here. I’d love to, I have you back for a more meaningful conversation with the hyperscalers. [00:36:45] Vince Menzione: Talk to some of the partners that join us at Ultimate Partner events. We’ll find a way to do that, but I have this one question. It’s a favorite question of mine, and I love to ask all my guests this. Okay. You’re hosting a dinner party. And you could host a dinner party anywhere in the world. We could talk about great locations and where your favorite places are, and you can invite any three guests from the present or the past to this amazing dinner party. [00:37:11] Vince Menzione: We had one guest who wanted to do them in the future, like three people that hadn’t reached a future date. Whom would you invite Jen and why? [00:37:21] Jen Odess: Oh, first of all, you’re hitting home for me because I love to host dinner parties. I actually used to have a catering company. This is like one of those weird facts that, we didn’t talk about my pre services and ecosystem days, but I also had a catering company, so I love cooking and hosting dinner parties. [00:37:38] Jen Odess: So this is a great question. I feel like it’s a loaded question and I have to say my spouse. I love my husband dearly, but I have. To invite Lee to my dinner party. Okay. He’s in [00:37:47] Vince Menzione: Lee’s guest number one. Lee’s [00:37:49] Jen Odess: guest, number one. And the reason why is, first of all, I love him dearly, but he’s super interesting and he has such thought provoking topics to, to discuss and ways of viewing the world. [00:38:00] Jen Odess: He’s actually in security tech, so it’s like a tangential space, but not the same. [00:38:05] Vince Menzione: Yeah. But an important space right now, especially. Yeah. And [00:38:07] Jen Odess: he, yeah. And he’s, he’s just a delight to be around. So he’d be number one. Number two would be Frank Lloyd Wright. [00:38:15] Vince Menzione: Frank. Lloyd Wright. [00:38:17] Jen Odess: Yeah. I am an architecture and design junkie. [00:38:21] Jen Odess: Maybe I don’t do any of it myself, though. I dabble with friends that do it, and I try to apply it to my home life when I can. And Frank Lloyd Wright sort of embodies some of my favorite. Components of any kind of environment that you are experiencing, whether it’s a home or it’s an office building or it’s an outdoor space. [00:38:39] Jen Odess: I love the idea of minimalism and simplicity. I love the idea of monochromatic colors. I love the idea of spaces that can be used for multipurpose. And then I love the idea of the outside being in and the inside being out. I love it. So I would like love to pick his brain on some of his, how he came up with some of his ideas. [00:38:59] Jen Odess: Fascinating for some of his greatest. Yeah. Designs. Okay. That’s number two. Number three, I think it would be Pharrell Williams. Really? Yeah, I, Pharrell Williams. Yeah. I love fashion music and all things creativity. He’s got that, Annie’s philanthropic. He’s just yeah. The whole package of a good person. [00:39:26] Jen Odess: That’s super interesting and I very cool. I would love to pick his brain on what it was like to be behind the scenes on some of the fashion lines he’s collaborated with on some of his music collabs he’s had, and then just some of the work he’s doing around philanthropy. I would. I could just spend all night probably listening to him. [00:39:43] Jen Odess: This would be a [00:39:44] Vince Menzione: really cool conversation night. [00:39:45] Jen Odess: Don’t you wanna come to my dinner? Was gonna say, I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to identify. No [00:39:49] Vince Menzione: I was, can I bring dessert? [00:39:50] Jen Odess: Yeah. I come [00:39:50] Vince Menzione: for dessert. I, but it can’t, [00:39:51] Jen Odess: it has to be like a chocolate dessert. It’s gotta have [00:39:54] Vince Menzione: I love chocolate dessert. [00:39:55] Vince Menzione: Okay, great. So it would not be a problem for me, Jen. This is terrific. You have been absolutely amazing. So great to have you come here. Yeah. Such a busy time of year to have you make the trip here to Boca. We will have you back in the studio. I promise that I’ll have you back on stage. Stage. [00:40:10] Jen Odess: This is beautiful. [00:40:10] Jen Odess: Look at it. Yeah. This is [00:40:11] Vince Menzione: beautiful. And we transformed this into, to a room, basically a conference room. And then we also have our ultimate partner events. I would love to come, we would love to have you join us. Like I said, ServiceNow is such an impactful time. Your leadership in this segment market, and I wouldn’t say segment across all of AI in terms of all the use cases of AI is just so meaningful, especially for within the enterprise. [00:40:33] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Right now. So just really a jogger nut right now within the industry. So great to have you and have ServiceNow join us. So Jen, thank you so much for joining us. [00:40:42] Jen Odess: Thanks Vince. Appreciate the time. It’s a pleasure to be here. [00:40:44] Vince Menzione: Thank you very much. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Ultimate Eye to Partnering. [00:40:50] Vince Menzione: We’re bringing these episodes to you to help you level up your strategy. If you haven’t yet, now’s the time to take action and think about joining our community. We created a unique place, UPX or Ultimate partner experience. It’s more than a community. It’s your competitive edge with insider insights, real-time education, and direct access to people who are driving the ecosystem forward. [00:41:16] Vince Menzione: UPX helps you get results. And we’re just getting started as we’re taking this studio. And we’ll be hosting live stream and digital events here, including our January live stream, the Boca Winter Retreat, and more to come. So visit our website, the ultimate partner.com to learn more and join us. Now’s the time to take your partnerships to the next level.

On this Newsbuzz episode, forecasts of budgeting in the 2026 legislative session, a recap of an inaugural summit at the University of Iowa's state legislature-imposed Center for Intellectual Freedom and the upcoming retirement of Iowa State University President Wendy Wintersteen. Also, Team USA women's wrestling coach Terry Steiner and Ukrainian wrestler Andrey Vorontsov discuss the two-week training camp they're having this month on the UI campus. This will culminate in a dual meet at the Xtream Arena on Dec. 18.

You've likely heard of Meta Ray-Ban Display by now — but what's it actually like to work on it? In this episode, Pascal talks to Kenan and Emanuel about the exciting features of Meta's First-Gen Display Glasses and Neural Wristband, the engineering and product challenges they encountered during development, and their vision for future generations of these devices.  Got feedback? Send it to us on Threads (https://threads.net/@metatechpod), Instagram (https://instagram.com/metatechpod) and don't forget to follow our host Pascal (https://mastodon.social/@passy, https://threads.net/@passy_). Fancy working with us? Check out https://www.metacareers.com/. Links Pyrefly Beta: https://pyrefly.org/blog/pyrefly-beta/ Pyrefly and Pydantic: https://pyrefly.org/blog/pyrefly-pydantic/  Meta Ray-Ban Display: https://www.meta.com/gb/ai-glasses/meta-ray-ban-display/  Timestamps Intro 0:06 Introduction Kenan 1:35 Introduction Emanuel 5:03 Roles and responsibilities 8:07 What is Meta Ray-Ban Display? 11:13 Memorable challenges: Clasps 15:52 Memorable challenges: Display 19:24 Celebrating incremental wins 23:51 The feedback cycle in hardware engineering 26:29 Open culture and dogfooding 31:39 One-way doors 32:44 Striving for quality and polish in fast-moving environments 36:25 UI principles for AI glasses 40:15 Future Plans 44:04 Outro 46:53 Blooper 47:49  

Eytan Seidman, VP of product at Shopify, joins the podcast to unpack Shopify's Winter '26 Edition and how AI is emerging into the market for developers and merchants. They discuss the new Dev MCP server, showing how tools like Cursor and Claude Desktop can rapidly scaffold Shopify apps, wire up Shopify functions, and ship payment customization and checkout UI extension experiences that lean on Shopify primitives like meta fields and meta objects across online stores and point of sale. Eytan also breaks down how Sidekick connects with apps, why the new analytics API and ShopifyQL open fresh analytics use cases, and more. Links Shopify Winter '26 Edition: https://www.shopify.com/editions/winter2026 We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Fill out our listener survey (https://t.co/oKVAEXipxu)! https://t.co/oKVAEXipxu Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Elizabeth, at elizabeth.becz@logrocket.com (mailto:elizabeth.becz@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Check out our newsletter (https://blog.logrocket.com/the-replay-newsletter/)! https://blog.logrocket.com/the-replay-newsletter/ Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket provides AI-first session replay and analytics that surfaces the UX and technical issues impacting user experiences. Start understanding where your users are struggling by trying it for free at LogRocket.com. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Chapters 01:00 — AI as the Focus of Winter '26 02:00 — MCP Server as the Ideal Dev Workflow 03:00 — Best Clients for MCP (Cursor, Claude Desktop) 04:00 — Hallucinations & Code Validation in MCP 06:00 — Developer Judgment & Platform Primitives 07:00 — Storage Choices: Meta Fields vs External Storage 09:00 — Learning UI Patterns Through MCP 10:00 — Sidekick Overview & Merchant Automation 11:00 — Apps Inside Sidekick: Data & UI Integration 13:00 — Scopes, Data Access & Developer Responsibility 14:00 — AI-Ready Platform & Explosion of New Apps 16:00 — New Developer Demographics Entering Shopify 17:00 — Where Indie Devs Should Focus (POS, Analytics) 18:00 — New Analytics API & Opportunities 19:00 — Full Platform Coverage via MCP Tools 20:00 — Building Complete Apps in Minutes 21:00 — Large Stores, Token Limits & MCP Scaling 22:00 — Reducing Errors with UI & Function Testing 23:00 — Lessons from Building the MCP Server 25:00 — Lowering Barriers for Non-Experts 26:00 — High-Quality Rust Functions via MCP 27:00 — MCP Spec Adoption: Tools Over Resources 28:00 — Future: Speed, Quality & UI Precision 29:00 — Model Evolution, Evals & Reliability 31:00 — Core Shopify Primitives to Build On 33:00 — Docs, Community & Learning Resources

Steven Fabre is the Co-founder and CEO of Liveblocks.Liveblocks builds ready-made AI copilots and collaboration for your product, and Steven is one of my smartest friends on how people are actually using AI on a day-to-day basis.We talk about what most people get wrong when trying to build AI-native software, how to treat it as more than just a copilot that sits on top of your product, and what he's learned about how large enterprises are actually buying and using AI right now.We also talk through Liveblocks journey of evolving from real-time human collaboration components into one that also incorporates AI, what he's learned going from a designer to a CEO, and how he rebuilt the company after his co-founder stepped away.Thank you to Numeral for supporting this episode. It's the end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance. Try it here: ⁠https://www.numeral.com⁠Timestamps:(2:17) Liveblocks: Infrastructure for people + AI(6:08) Wrong ways to add AI to software(8:05) Why humans and AI must collaborate(12:35) How AI will change software UI(18:58) AI search optimization(26:20) How to get #1 on Product Hunt(32:33) Liveblocks 1.0 to 3.0 evolution(36:40) Why collaboration software is so hard(38:38) How customers use Liveblocks(42:36) Hiring a coach to get better at sales(47:07) Steven's biggest enterprise sales mistakes(50:28) How AI changes GTM and funding milestones(57:57) Going from a designer to a CEO(1:01:06) How Liveblocks first started(1:04:56) Importance of design in company building(1:06:51) Learning to become a CEO(1:12:29) When his co-founder left 5 years in(1:15:49) Becoming stronger hiring a new Head of Engineering(1:22:10) Remote culture: what doesn't work(1:24:08) Remote culture: what does work(1:26:47) Importance of autonomy on remote teams(1:28:05) Most underrated basketball players(1:33:38) ACL injury that kickstarted his first businessReferencedLiveblocks: https://liveblocks.io/Careers at Liveblocks: https://join.team/liveblocksFollow StevenTwitter: https://x.com/stevenfabreLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-fabre-5510bb38Follow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

In this episode of Future of UX, Patricia breaks down the most important tech and AI shifts of 2025 — the trends that fundamentally changed how we design, build, research, and work. If you missed anything this year or simply want the essential takeaways, this episode is your shortcut.From AI Agents and deepfake-proof UX to vibe-coding, AI-native browsers, research automation, and the rise of general-purpose robots — here are the big transformations shaping the future of design.Why 2025 was the year AI Agents became real — not as chatbots, but as autonomous coworkers running full workflows.• How MCP unlocked the agent ecosystem• Vibe coding and intent-driven development• The shift from execution to oversight in human rolesVisual trust collapsed — and UX became responsible for rebuilding it.• Why humans can't detect deepfakes anymore• What actually worked: C2PA, identity checks, and UI “micro-literacy”• Designing interfaces that communicate authenticity and uncertaintyHow tools like Lovable, Replit, and AI builders changed who gets to create.• From pixel pushing to strategic direction• Conversational creation flows• What this means for designers and innovatorsAI automated more than ever — but made human oversight more important.• Where full autonomy worked• Where humans stayed essential• Why the future depends on intentional human-in-the-loop designResearch and analysis were transformed by automated synthesis.• Superagency: managing research instead of doing it manually• The new trust problem in fast research• Data provenance, model transparency, and expert validationBrowsers became intelligence layers instead of navigation tools.• Context-aware, predictive UX• Browsers that act, not just display• How this changes product and interaction designWhy general-purpose robots finally left the lab in 2025.• Embodied AI• Real-world perception• Language-driven task executionAI for Designers: 5-week Bootcamp

In this episode: Martin has been learning Go and created: Jivedrop - Drop the mix, ship the show-metadata, cover art, and all

The Overtired trio reunites for the first time in ages, diving into a whirlwind of health updates, hilarious anecdotes, and the latest tech obsessions. Christina shares a dramatic spinal saga while Brett and Jeff discuss everything from winning reddit contests to creating a universal markdown processor. Tune in for updates on Mark 3, the magical world of Scrivener, and why Brett’s back on Bing. Don’t miss the banter or the tech tips, and as always, get ready to laugh, learn, and maybe feel a little overtired yourself. Sponsor Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all eCommerce in the US, from household names like Mattel and Gymshark, to brands just getting started. Get started today at shopify.com/overtired. Chapters 00:00 Welcome to the Overtired Podcast 01:09 Christina’s Health Journey 10:53 Brett’s Insurance Woes 15:38 Jeff’s Mental Health Update 24:07 Sponsor Spot: Shopify 24:18 Sponsor: Shopify 26:23 Jeff Tweedy 27:43 Jeff’s Concert Marathon 32:16 Christina Wins Big 36:58 Monitor Setup Challenges 37:13 Ergotron Mounts and Tall Poles 38:33 Review Plans and Honest Assessments 38:59 Current Display Setup 41:30 Thunderbolt KVM and Display Preferences 42:51 MacBook Pro and Studio Comparisons 50:58 Markdown Processor: Apex 01:07:58 Scrivener and Writing Tools 01:11:55 Helium Browser and Privacy Features 01:13:56 Bing Delisting Incident Show Links Danny Brown's 10 in the New York Times (gift link) Indigo Stack Scrivener Helium Bangs Apex Apex Syntax Join the Marked 3 Beta LG 32 Inch UltraFine™evo 6K Nano IPS Black Monitor with Thunderbolt™ 5 Join the Conversation Merch Come chat on Discord! Twitter/ovrtrd Instagram/ovrtrd Youtube Get the Newsletter Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Brett + 2 Welcome to the Overtired Podcast Jeff: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. This is the Overtired podcast. The three of us are all together for the first time since the Carter administration. Um, it is great to see you both here. I am Jeff Severance Gunzel if I didn’t say that already. Um, and I’m here with Christina Warren and I’m here with Brett Terpstra and hello to both of you. Brett: Hi. Jeff: Great to see you both. Brett: Yeah, it’s good to see you too. I feel like I was really deadpan in the pre-show. I’ll try to liven it up for you. I was a horrible audience. You were cracking jokes and I was just Jeff: that’s true. Christina, before you came on, man, I was hot. I was on fire and Brett was, all Brett was doing was chewing and dropping Popsicle parts. Brett: Yep. I ate, I ate part of a coconut outshine Popsicle off of a concrete floor, but Jeff: It is true, and I didn’t even see him check it [00:01:00] for cat hair, Brett: I did though. Jeff: but I believe he did because he’s a, he’s a very Brett: I just vacuumed in Jeff: He’s a very good American Brett: All right. Christina’s Health Journey Brett: Well, um, I, Christina has a lot of health stuff to share and I wanna save time for that. So let’s kick off the mental health corner. Um, let’s let Christina go first, because if it takes the whole show, it takes the whole show. Go for it. Christina: Uh, I, I will not take this hold show, but thank you. Yeah. So, um, my mental health is okay-ish. Um, I would say the okay-ish part is, is because of things that are happening with my physical health and then some of the medications that I’ve had to be on, um, uh, to deal with it. Uh, prednisone. Fucking sucks, man. Never nev n never take it if you can avoid it. Um, but why Christina, why are you on prednisone or why were you on prednisone for five days? Um, uh, and I’m not anymore to be clear, but that certainly did not help my mental health. Um, at the beginning of November, I woke up and I thought that I’d [00:02:00] slept on my shoulder wrong. And, um, uh, and, and just some, some background. I, I don’t know if this is pertinent to how my injury took place or not, but, but it, I’m sure that it didn’t help. Um, I have scoliosis and in the top and the bottom of my spine, so I have it at the top of my, like, neck area and my lower back. And so my back is like a crooked s um, this will be relevant in a, in a second, but, but I, I thought that I had slept on my back bunny, and I was like, okay, well, all right, it hurts a lot, but fine. Um, and then it, a, a couple of days passed and it didn’t get any better, and then like a week passed and I was at the point where I was like, I almost feel like I need to go to the. Emergency room, I’m in pain. That is that significant. Um, and, you know, didn’t get any better. So I took some of grant’s, Gabapentin, and I took, um, some, some, uh, a few other things and I was able to get in with like a, a, a sports and spine guy. Um, and um, [00:03:00] he looked at me and he was like, yeah, I think that you have like a, a, a bolting disc, also known as a herniated disc. Go to physical therapy. See me later. We’ll, we’ll deal with it. Um. Basically like my whole left side was, was, was really sore and, and I had a lot of pain and then I had numbness in my, my fingers and um, and, and that was a problem the next day, which was actually my birthday. The numbness had at this point spread to my right side and also my lower extremities. And so at this point I called the doctor and he was like, yeah, you should go to the er. And so I went to the ER and, and they weren’t able to do anything for me other than give me, you know, like, um, you know, I was hoping they might give me like, some sort of steroid injection or something. They wouldn’t do anything other than, um, basically, um, they gave me like another type of maybe, maybe pain pill or whatever. Um, but that allowed the doctor to go ahead and. Write, uh, write up an MRI took forever for me to get an MRI, I actually had to get it in Atlanta. [00:04:00] Fun fact, uh, sometimes it is cheaper to just pay and not go through insurance and get an MR MRI and, um, a, um, uh, an x-ray, um, I was able to do it for $450 Jeff: Whoa. Really? Christina: Yeah, $400 for the MR mri. $50 for the x-ray. Jeff: Wow. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Brett: how I, they, I had an MRI, they charged me like $1,200 and then they failed to bill insurance ’cause I was between insurance. Christina: Yes. Yeah. So what happened was, and and honestly that was gonna be the situation that I was in, not between insurance stuff, but they weren’t even gonna bill insurance. And insurance only approved certain facilities and to get into those facilities is almost impossible. Um, and so, no, there are a lot of like get an MR, I now get a, you know, mammogram, get ghetto, whatever places. And because America’s healthcare system is a HealthScape, you can bypass insurance and they will charge you way less than whatever they bill insurance for. So I, I don’t know if it’s part of the country, you know, like Seattle I think might [00:05:00] probably would’ve been more expensive. But yeah, I was able to find this place like a mile from like, not even a mile from where my parents lived, um, that did the x-rays and the MRI for $450 total. Brett: I, I hate, I hate that. That’s true, but Christina: Me too. Me too. No, no. It pisses me off. Honestly, it makes me angry because like, I’m glad that I was able to do that and get it, you know, uh, uh, expedited. Then I go into the spine, um, guy earlier this week and he looks at it and he’s like, yep, you’ve got a massive bulging disc on, on C seven, which is the, the part of your lower cervical or cervical spine, which is your neck. Um, and it’s where it connects to your ver bray. It’s like, you know, there are a few things you can do. You can do, you know, injections, you can do surgery. He is like, I’m gonna recommend you to a neurosurgeon. And I go to the neurosurgeon yesterday and he was showing me or not, uh, yeah, yesterday he was showing me the, the, the, the scans and, and showing like you up close and it’s, yeah, it’s pretty massive. Like where, where, where the disc is like it is. You could see it just from one view, like, just from like [00:06:00] looking at it like, kind of like outside, like you could actually like see like it was visible, but then when you zoomed in it’s like, oh shit, this, this thing is like massive and it’s pressing on these nerves that then go into my, my hands and other areas. But it’s pressing on both sides. It’s primarily on my left side, but it’s pressing on on my right side too, which is not good. So, um, he basically was like, okay. He was like, you know, this could go away. He was like, the pain isn’t really what I’m wanting to, to treat here. It’s, it’s the, the weakness because my, my left arm is incredibly weak. Like when they do like the, the test where like they, they push back on you to see like, okay, like how, how much can you, what, like, I am, I’m almost immediately like, I can’t hold anything back. Right? Like I’m, I’m, I’m like a toddler in terms of my strength. So, and, and then I’m freaked out because I don’t have a lot of feeling in my hands and, and that’s terrifying. Um, I’m also. Jeff: so terrifying, Christina: I’m, I’m also like in extreme pain because of, of, of where this sits. Like I can’t sleep well. Like [00:07:00] the whole thing sucks. Like the MRI, which was was like the most painful, like 25 minutes, like of my existence. ’cause I was laying flat on my back. I’m not allowed to move and I’m just like, I’m in just incredible pain with that part of, of, of, of my, my side. Like, it, it was. It was terrible. Um, but, uh, but he was like, yeah. Um, these are the sorts of surgical options we have. Um, he’s gonna, um, do basically what what he wants to do is basically do a thing where he would put in a, um, an artificial or, or synthetic disc. So they’re gonna remove the disc, put in a synthetic one. They’ll go in through the, the front of my throat to access the, my, my, my, my spine. Um, put that there and, um, you know, I’ll, I’ll be overnight in the hospital. Um, and then it’ll be a few weeks of recovery and the, the, the pain should go away immediately. Um, but it, it could be up to two years before I get full, you know, feeling back in my arm. So anyway, Jeff: years, Jesus. And Christina: I mean, and hopefully less than that, but, but it could be [00:08:00] up to that. Jeff: there’s no part of this at this point. That’s a mystery to you, right? Christina: The mystery is, I don’t know how this happened. Jeff: You don’t know how it happened, right? Of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Brett: So tell, tell us about the ghastly surgery. The, the throat thing really threw me like, I can’t imagine that Christina: yeah, yeah. So, well, ’cause the thing is, is that usually if what they just do, like spinal fusion, they’ll go in at the back of your neck, um, and then they’ll remove the, the, um, the, the, the, the disc. And then they’ll fuse your, your, your two bones together. Basically. They’ll, they’ll, they’ll, they’ll fuse this part of the vertebrae, but because they’re going to be replacing the, the disc, they need more room. So that’s why they have to go in through the, through, through basically your throat so that they can have more room to work. Jeff: Good lord. No thank you. Brett: Ugh. Wow. Jeff: Okay. Brett: I am really sorry that is happening. That is, that is, that dwarfs my health concerns. That is just constant pain [00:09:00] and, and it would be really scary. Christina: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not great. It’s not great, but I’m, I’m, I’m doing what I can and, uh, like I have, you know, a small amount of, of Oxycodine and I have like a, a, a, you know, some other pain medication and I’m taking the gabapentin and like, that’s helpful. The bad part is like your body, like every 12, 15 hours, like whatever, like the, the, the cycle is like, you feel it leave your system and like if you’re asleep, you wake up, right? Like, it’s one of those things, like, you immediately feel it, like when it leaves your system. And I’ve never had to do anything for pain management before. And they have me on a very, they have me like on the smallest amount of like, oxycodone you can be on. Um, and I’m using it sparingly because I don’t wanna, you know, be reliant on, on it or whatever. But it, it, but it is one of those things where I’m like, yeah, like sometimes you need fucking opiates because, you know, the pain is like so constant. And the thing is like, what sucks is that it’s not always the same type of pain. Like sometimes it’s throbbing, sometimes it’s sharp, sometimes it’s like whatever. It sucks. But the hardest thing [00:10:00] is like, and. This does impact my mental health. Like it’s hard to sleep. Like, and I’m a side sleeper. I’m a side sleeper, and I’m gonna have to become a back sleeper. So, you know. Yeah. It’s just, it’s, it’s not great. It’s not great, but, you know, that, that, that, that, that’s me. The, the good news is, and I’m very, very gratified, like I have a good surgeon. Um, I’m gonna be able to get in to get this done relatively quickly. He had an appointment for next week. I don’t think that insurance would’ve even been able to approve things fast enough for, for, for that regard. And I have, um, commitments that I can’t make then. And I, and that would also mean that I wouldn’t be able to go visit my family for Christmas. So hopefully I’ll do it right after Christmas. I’m just gonna wait, you know, for, for insurance to, to do its thing, knock on wood, and then schedule, um, from there. But yeah, Jeff: Woof. Christina: so that’s me. Um, uh, who wants to go next? Jeff or, uh, Jeff or Brett? Jeff: It’s like, that’s me. Hot potato throwing it. Brett: I’ll, I’ll go. Brett’s Insurance Woes Brett: I can continue on the insurance topic. Um, I was, for a few months [00:11:00] after getting laid off, I was on Minsu, which is Minnesota’s Medicaid, um, v version of Medicaid. And so basically I paid nothing and I had better insurance than I usually have with, uh, you know, a full deductible and premiums and everything. And it was fantastic. I was getting all the care I needed for all of the health stuff I’m going through. Um, I, they, a, a new doctor I found, ordered the 15 tests and I passed out ’cause it was so much blood and. And it, I was getting, but I was getting all these tests run. I was getting results, we were discovering things. And then my unemployment checks, the income from unemployment went like $300 over the cap for Medicaid. So [00:12:00] all of a sudden, overnight I was cut from Medicaid and I had to do an early sign up, and now I’m on courts and it sucks bad. Like they’re not covering my meds. Last month cost me $600. I was also paying. In addition to that, a $300 premium plus every doctor’s visit is 50 bucks out of pocket. So this will hopefully only last until January, and then it’ll flip over and I will be able to demonstrate basically no income, um, until like Mark makes enough money that it gets reported. Um, and even, uh, until then, like I literally am making under the, the poverty limit. So, um, I hope to be back on Medicaid shortly. I have one more month. I’ll have to pay my $600 to refill. I [00:13:00] cashed out my 401k. Um, like things were, everything was up high enough that I had made, I. I had made tens of thousands of dollars just on the investments and the 401k, but I also have a lot of concerns about the market volatility around Nvidia and the AI bubble in general. Um, so taking my money out of the market just felt okay to me. I paid the 10%, uh, penalty Jeff: Mm-hmm. Brett: and ultimately I, I came out with enough cash that I can invest on my own and be able to cover the next six months. Uh, if I don’t have any other income, which I hope to, I hope to not spend my nest egg. Um, but I did, I did a lot of thinking and calculating and I think I made the right choices. But anyway, [00:14:00] that will help if I have to pay for medical stuff that will help. Um. And then I’ve had insomnia, bad on and off. Right now I’m coming off of two days of good sleep. You’re catching me on a good day. Um, but Jeff: Still wouldn’t laugh at my jokes. Brett: before that it was, well, that’s the thing is like before that, it was four nights where I slept two to four hours per night, and by the end of it, I could barely walk. And so two nights of sleep after a stint like that, like, I’m just super, I’m deadpan, I’m dazed. Um, I could lay down and fall asleep at any time. Um, I, so, so keep me awake. Um, but yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s me. Mental health is good. Like I’m in pretty high spirits considering all this, like financial stuff and everything. Like my mood has been pretty stable. I’ve been getting a lot of coding done. I’ll tell you about projects in [00:15:00] a minute, but, um, but that’s, that’s me. I’m done. Jeff: Awesome. I’m enjoying watching your cat roll around, but clearly cannot decide to lay down at this point. Brett: No, nobody is very persnickety. Jeff: I literally have to put my. Well, you say put a cat down like you used to. When you put a kid down for a nap, you say you wanna put ’em down. Right? That’s where it’s coming from. I now have a chair next to my desk, ’cause I have one cat that walks around Yowling at about 11:00 AM while I’m working. And I have to like, put ’em down for a nap. It’s pathetic. It’s pathetic that I do that. Let’s just be clear. Brett: Yeah. Jeff: soulmate though. Jeff’s Mental Health Update Jeff: Um, I’m doing good. I’m, I’m, I’ve been feeling kind of light lately in a nice way. I’ve had ups and downs, but even with the ups and downs, there’s like a, except for one day last week was, there’s just been feeling kind of good in general, which is remarkable in a way. ’cause it’s just like stressful time. There’s some stressful business stuff, like, [00:16:00] a lot of stuff like that. But I’m feeling good and, and just like, uh, yeah, just light. I don’t know, it’s weird. Like, I’ve just been noticing that I feel kind of light and, uh. And not, not manic, not high light. Brett: Yeah. No, that’s Jeff: uh, and that’s, that’s lovely. So yeah. And so I’m doing good. I’m doing good. I fucking, it’s cold. Which sucks ’cause it just means for everybody that’s heard about my workshop over the years, that I can’t really go out there and have it be pleasant Brett: It’s, it’s been Minnesota thus far. Has had, we’ve had like one, one Sub-Zero day. Jeff: whatever. It’s fucking cold. Christina: Yeah. What one? Brett? Brett. It’s December 6th as we’re recording this one Sub-Zero day. That’s insane. Brett: Is it Jeff: Granted, granted I’ve been dressing warm, so I’m ready to go out the door for ice related things. Meaning, meaning government, ice, Brett: Uh, yeah. Yeah. Jeff: So I like wear my long underwear during [00:17:00] the day. ’cause actually like recently. So at my son’s school, which is like six blocks from here, um, has a lot of Somali immigrants in it. And, and uh, and there was a, at one point there was ice activity in the other direction, um, uh, uh, near me. And so neighbors put out a call here around so that at dismissal time people would pair up at all the intersections surrounding the school. And, um, and like a quick signal group popped up, whatever. It was so amazing because like we all just popped out there. And by the time I got out, uh, everyone was already like, posted up and I was like, I’m a, in these situations, I am a wanderer. You want me roaming? I don’t want to pair up with somebody I don’t like, I just, I grabbed a camera with a Zoom on it and like, I was like, I’m in roam. Um, it’s what I was as an activist, what I was as a reporter, like it’s just my nature. Um, but like. Everybody was out and like, and they were just like, they were ready man. And then we got like the all clear and you could just see people in the [00:18:00] neighborhood just like standing down and going home. But because of the true threat and the ongoing arrests here, now that the Minneapolis stuff has started, like I do, I was like wearing long underwear just, and I have a little bag by the door ready to like pop out if something comes up and I can be helpful. Um, and uh, and I guess what I’m saying is I should use that to go into the garage as well if I’m already prepared. Brett: Right. Jeff: But here’s, okay, so here’s a mental health thing actually. So I, one of the, I’ve gone through a few years of just sort of a little bit of paralysis around being able to just, I don’t know what, like do anything that is kind of project related that takes some thinking, whatever it is, like I’m talking about around the house or things that have kind of broken over the years, whatever. So I’ve had this snowblower and it’s a really good snowblower. It’s got headlights. And, uh, and I used to love snow blowing the entire block. Like it just made me feel good, made me feel useful. Um, and sorry I cough. I left it outside for a [00:19:00] year for a, like a winter and a spring and water got into the gas tank. It rusted out in there. I knew I couldn’t start it or I’d ruin the whole damn engine. So I left it for two years and I felt bad about myself. But this year, just like probably a month before the first big snowfall, I fucking replaced a gas tank and a carburetor on a machine. And I have never done anything like that in my life. And so then we got the snowfall and I, and I snow blowed this whole block Brett: Nice. Jeff: great. ’cause now they all owe me. Brett: I, uh, I have a, uh, so I have a little electric powered, uh, snowblower that can handle like two inches of snow. Um, and, and on big snowfalls, if you get out there every hour and keep up with it, it, it works. But, but I, my back right now, I can’t stand for, I can’t stand still for 10 minutes and I can’t move for more than like five minutes. And so I’m, I’m very disabled and El has good days and bad days, uh, thus [00:20:00] far. L’s been out there with a shovel, um, really being the hero. But we have a next door neighbor with a big gas powered snowblower. And so we went over, brought them gifts, and, um, asked if they would take care of our driveway on days we couldn’t, uh, for like, you know, we’d pay ’em 25 bucks to do the driveway. And, uh, and they were, he was still reluctant to accept money. Um. But, but we both agreed it was better to like make it a, a transaction. Jeff: Oh my God. You don’t want to get into weird Minnesota neighbor relational. Brett: right. You don’t want the you owe me thing. Um, so, so we have that set up. But in the process we made really good friends with our neighbor. Like we sat down in their living room for I think 45 minutes and just like talked about health and politics and it was, it was really fun. They’re, they’re retired. They’re in their [00:21:00] seventies and like act, he always looks super grumpy. I always thought he was a mean old man. He’s actually, he laughs more easily than most people I’ve ever met. Um, he’s actually, when people say, oh, he is actually a teddy bear, this guy really is, he’s just jovial. Uh, he just has resting angry old man face. Jeff: Or like my, I have public mis throat face, like when I’m out and about, especially when I’m shopping, I know that my face is, I’m gonna fucking kill you if you look me in the eye Brett: I used Jeff: is not my general disposition. Brett: people used to tell me that about myself, but I feel like I, I carry myself differently these days than I did when I was younger. Jeff: You know what I learned? Do you, have you both watched Veep, Christina: Yes, Jeff: you know, Richard sp split, right? Um, and, and he always kind of has this sweet like half smile and he is kind of looking up and I, I figured out at one point I was in an airport, which is where my kill everybody face especially comes up. Just to be clear. TSA, it’s just a feeling inside. I [00:22:00] have no desire to act to this out. I realized that if I make the Richard Plet face, which I can try to make for you now, which is something like if I just make the Richard Plet face, my whole disposition Brett: yeah. Yeah. Jeff: uh, and I even feel a little better. And so I just wanna recommend that to people. Look up Richard Spt, look at his face. Christina: Hey, future President Bridges split. Jeff: future President Richard Splat, also excellent in the Detroiters. Um, that’s all, uh, that’s all I wanted to say about that. Brett: I have found that like when I’m texting with someone, if I start to get frustrated, you know, you know that point where you’re still adding smiley emoticons even though you’re actually not, you’re actually getting pissed off, but you don’t wanna sound super bitchy about it, so you’re adding smile. I have found that when I add a smiley emoji in those circumstances, if I actually smile before I send it, it like my [00:23:00] mood will adjust to match, to match the tone I’m trying to convey, and it lessens my frustration with the other person. Jeff: a little joy wrist rocket. Christina: Yeah. Hey, I mean, no, but hey, but, but that, that, that, that, that’s interesting. I mean, they’re, they, they’ve done studies that like show that, right? That like show like, you know, I mean, like, some of this is all like bullshit to a certain extent, but there is something to be said for like, you know, like the power of like positive thinking and like, you know, if you go into things with like, different types of attitudes or even like, even if you like, go into job interviews or other situations, like you act confident or you smile, or you act happy or whatever. Even if you’re not like it, the, the, the, the euphoria, you know, that those sorts of uh, um, endorphin reactions or whatever can be real. So that’s interesting. Brett: Yeah, I found, I found going into job interviews with my usual sarcastic and bitter, um, kind of mindset, Jeff: I already hate this job. Brett: it doesn’t play well. It doesn’t play well. So what are your weaknesses? Fuck off. Um,[00:24:00] Christina: right. Well, well, well, I hate people. Jeff: Yeah. Dealing with motherfuckers like you, that’s one weakness. Sponsor Spot: Shopify Brett: let’s, uh, let’s do a sponsor spot and then I want to hear about Christina winning a contest. Christina: yes. Jeff: very Brett: wanna, you wanna take it away? Sponsor: Shopify Jeff: I will, um, our sponsor this week is Shopify. Um, have you ever, have you just been dreaming of owning your own business? Is that why you can’t sleep? In addition to having something to sell, you need a website. And I’ll tell you what, that’s been true for a long time. You need a payment system, you need a logo, you need a way to advertise new customers. It can all be overwhelming and confusing, but that is where today’s sponsor, Shopify comes in. shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gym Shark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio with hundreds of ready to use [00:25:00] templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand’s style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to processing returns and beyond. If you’re ready to sell, you are ready to Shopify. Turn your Big Business Idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today@shopify.com slash Overtired. Go to shopify.com/ Overtired. What was that? Say it with me. shopify.com/ Overtired [00:26:00] cha. Uh, Brett: the, uh, the group, the group input on the last URL, I feel like we can charge extra for that. That was Jeff: Yeah. Cha-ching Brett: they got the chorus, they got the Overtired Christina: You did. You got the Overtired Jeff: They didn’t think to ask for it, but that’s our brand. Christina: shopify.com/ Overtired. Jeff Tweedy Jeff: What was, uh, I was watching a Stephen Colbert interview with Jeff Tweedy, who just put out a triple album and, uh, it was a very thoughtful, sweet interview. And then Stephen Colbert said, you know, you’re not supposed to do this. And Jeff Tweety said, it’s all part of my career long effort to leave the public wanting less. Christina: Ha, Jeff: That was a great bit. Christina: that’s a fantastic bit. A side note, there are a couple of really good NPR, um, uh, tiny desks that have come out in the last couple of month, uh, couple of weeks. Um, uh, one is shockingly, I, I’ll, I’ll just be a a, a fucking boomer about it. The Googo dolls. Theirs was [00:27:00] great. It’s fantastic. They did a great job. It already has like millions of views, like it wrecked up like over a million views, I think like in like, like less than 24 hours. They did a great job, but, uh, but Brandy Carlisle, uh, did one, um, the other day and hers is really, really good too. So, um, so yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. Anyway, you said, you saying Jeff pd maybe, I don’t know how I got from Wilco to like, you know, there, Jeff: Yeah. Well, they’ve done some good, he’s done his own good Christina: he has, he has done his own. Good, good. That’s honestly, that’s probably what I was thinking of, but Jeff: It’s my favorite Jeff besides me because Bezos, he’s not in the, he’s not in the game. Christina: No. No, he’s not. No. Um, he, he’s, he’s not on the Christmas card list at all. Jeff: Oh man. Jeff’s Concert Marathon Jeff: Can I just tell you guys that I did something, um, I did something crazy a couple weeks ago and I went to three shows in one week, like I was 20 fucking two, Brett: Good grief. Jeff: and. It was a blast. So, okay, so the background of this is my oldest son [00:28:00] loves hip hop, and when we drive him to college and back, or when I do, it’s often just me. Um, he, he goes deep and he, it’s a lot of like, kind of indie hip hop and a lot. It’s just an interesting, he listens to interesting shit, but he will go deep and he’ll just like, give me a tour through someone’s discography or through all their features somewhere, whatever it is. And like, it’s the kind of input that I love, which is just like, I don’t, even if it’s not my genre, like if you’re passionate and you can just weave me through the interrelationship and the history and whatever it is I’m in. So as a result of that, made me a huge fan of Danny Brown and made me a huge fan of the sky, Billy Woods. And so what happened was I went to a hip hop show at the seventh Street entry, uh, which is attached to First Avenue. It’s a little club, very small, lovely little place, the only place my band could sell out. Um, and I watched a hip hop show there on a Monday night, Tuesday night. I went to the Uptown Theater, which Brett is now a actually an operating [00:29:00] theater for shows. Uh, and I, and I saw Danny Brown, but I also saw two hyper pop bands, a genre I was not previously aware of, including one, which was amazing, called Fem Tenal. And I was in line to get into that show behind furries, behind trans Kids. Like it was this, I was the weirdest, like I did not belong. Underscores played, and, and this will mean something to somebody out there, but not, didn’t mean anything to me until that night. And, uh. I felt like such, there were times, not during Danny Brown, Danny Brown’s my age all good. But like there were times where I was in the crowd ’cause I’m tall. Anybody that doesn’t know I’m very tall and I’m wearing like a not very comfortable or safe guy seeming outfit, a black hoodie, a black stocking cap. Like I basically looked like I’m possibly a shooter and, and I’m like standing among all these young people loving it, but feeling a little like, should I go to the back? Even like I was leaving that show [00:30:00] and the only people my age were people’s parents that were waiting to pick them up on the way out. So anyway, that was night two. Danny Brown was awesome. And then two nights later I went to see, this is way more my speed, a band called the Dazzling Kilman who were a band that. Came out in the nineties, St. Louis and a noisy Matthew Rock. Wikipedia claims they invented math rock. It’s a really stupid claim, uh, but it’s a lovely, interesting band and it’s a friend of mine named Nick Sakes, who’s who fronted that band and was in all these great bands back when I was in bands called Colos Mite and Sick Bay, and all this is great shit. So they played a reunion show. In this tiny punk rock club here called Cloudland, just a lovely little punk rock club. And, um, and, and that was like rounded out my week. So like, I was definitely, uh, a tourist the early part of the week, mostly at the Danny Brown Show. But then I like got to come home to my noisy punk rock [00:31:00] on, uh, on Thursday night. And I, I fucking did three shows and it hurt so bad. Like even by the first of three bands on the second night. I was like, I don’t think I can make it. And I do. I already pregame shows with ibuprofen. Just to be really clear, I microdose glucose tabs at shows like, like I am, I am a full on old man doing these things. But, um, I did get some cred with my kids for being at a hyper pop show all by myself. And, Christina: Hell yeah. A a Jeff: friends seemed impressed. Christina: no, as a as, as as they should be. I’m impressed. And like, and I, I, I typically like, I definitely go to like more of like, I go, I go to shows more frequently and, and I’m, I’m even like, I’m, I’m gonna be real with you. I’m like, yeah, three in one week. Jeff: That’s a lot. Christina: That’s a lot. That’s a lot. Jeff: man. Did I feel good when I walked home from that last show though? I was like, I fucking did it. I did not believe I wasn’t gonna bail on at least two of those shows, if not all three. Anyway, just wanted to say Brett: I [00:32:00] do like one show a year, but Jeff: that’s how I’ve been for years this year. I think I’ve seen eight shows. Brett: damn. Jeff: Yeah, it’s Brett: Alright, so you’ve been teasing us about this, this contest you won. Jeff: Yeah, please, Christina. Sorry to push that off. Christina: No, no, no, no. That’s, that’s completely okay. That, that, that, that’s great. Uh, no. Christina Wins Big Christina: So, um, I won two six K monitors. Brett: Damn. Jeff: is that what those boxes are behind you? Christina: Yeah, yeah. This is what the boxes are behind me, so I haven’t been able to get them up because this happened. I got them literally right in the midst of all this stuff with my back. Um, but I do have an Ergotron poll now that is here, and, and Grant has said that he will, will get them up. But yeah, so I won 2 32 inch six K monitors from a Reddit contest. Brett: How, how, how, Jeff: How does this happen? How do I find a Reddit contest? Christina: Yeah. So I got lucky. So I have, I, I have a clearly, well, well, um, there was a little, there was a little bit of like, other step to it than that, but like, uh, so how it worked was basically, um, LG is basically just put out [00:33:00] two, they put out a new 32 inch six K monitor. I’ll have it linked in, in, in the show notes. Um, so we’ve talked about this on this podcast before, but like one of my big, like. Pet peeve, like things that I can’t get past. It’s like I need like a retina screen. Like I need like the, the perfect pixel doubling thing for that the Mac Os deals with, because I’ve used a 5K screen, either through an iMac or um, an lg, um, ultra fine or, um, a, uh, studio display. For like 11 years. And, and I, and I’ve been using retina displays on laptops even longer than that. And so if I use like a regular 4K display, like it just, it, it doesn’t work for me. Um, you can use apps like, um, like better control and other things to kind of emulate, like what would be like if you doubled the resolution, then it, it down, you know, um, of samples that, so that. It looks better than, than if it’s just like the, the, the 4K stuff where in the, the user interface things are too big and whatnot. And to be clear, this is a Macco West problem. If [00:34:00] you are using Windows or Linux or any other operating system that does fractional scaling, um, correctly, then this is not a problem. But Macco West does not do fractional scaling direct, uh, correctly. Um, weirdly iOS can, like, they can do three X resolution and other things. Um, but, but, but Macs does not. And that’s weird because some of the native resolutions on some of the MacBook errors are not even perfectly pixeled doubled, meaning Apple is already having to do a certain amount of like resolution changes to, to fit into their own, created by their, their own hubris, like way of insisting on, on only having like, like two x pixel doubling 18 years ago, we could have had independent, uh, resolutions, uh, um, for, for UI elements and, and, and window bars. But anyway, I, I’m, I’m digressing anyway. I was looking at trying to get either a second, uh, studio display, which I don’t wanna do because Apple’s reportedly going to be putting out a new one. Um, and they’re expensive or getting, um, there are now a number of different six K [00:35:00] displays that are not $6,000 that are on the market. So, um, uh, uh, Asus has one, um, there is one from like a, a Chinese company called like, or Q Con that, um, looks like a, a complete copy of this, of the pro display XDR. It has a different panel, but it’s, it’s six K and they, they’ve copied the whole design and it’s aluminum and it’s glossy and it looks great, but I’d have to like get it from like. A weird distributor, and if I have any issues with it, I don’t really wanna have to send it back to China and whatnot. And then LG has one that they just put out. And so I’ve been researching these on, on Mac rumors and on some other forums. And, um, I, uh, I, somebody in one of the Mac Roomers forums like posted that there was like a contest that LG was running in a few different subreddits where they were like, tell us why you should get one of, like, we’re gonna be giving away like either one or two monitors, and I guess they did this in a few subreddits. Tell us why this would be good for your workflow. And, um, I guess I, I guess I’m one of the people who kind of read the [00:36:00] assignment because it, okay, I’ll just be honest with this, with, with you guys on this podcast, uh, because I, I don’t think anyone from LG will hear this and my answers were accurate anyway. But anyway, this was not the sort of contest where it was like we will randomly select a winner. This was the moderators and lg, were going to read the responses and choose the winner. Jeff: Got it. Christina: So if you spend a little bit of time and thoughtfully write out a response, maybe you stand a better chance of winning the contest. Jeff: yeah, yeah. Put the work in like it was 2002. Christina: Right. Anyway, I still was shocked when I like woke up like on like Halloween and they were like, congratulations, you’ve won two monitors. I’m like, I’m sorry. What? Jeff: That’s amazing. Christina: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Jeff: Nice work. I know I’ve, you know, I’ve been staring at those boxes behind you this whole time, just being like, those look like some sweet monitors. Christina: yeah, yeah. Monitor Setup Challenges Christina: I mean, and, uh, [00:37:00] uh, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, and I, I’m very much, so my, my, my only issue is, okay, how am I gonna get these on my desk? So I’m gonna have to do something with my iMac and I’m probably gonna have to get rid of my, my my, my 5K, um, uh, uh, studio display, at least in the short term. Ergotron Mounts and Tall Poles Christina: Um, but what I did do is I, um, I ordered from, um, Ergotron, ’cause I already have. Um, two of their, um, LX mounts, um, or, or, or, or arms. Um, and only one of them is being used right now. And then I have a different arm that I use for the, um, um, iMac. Um, they sell like a, if you call ’em directly, you can get them to send you a tall pole so that you can put the two arms on top of them. And that way I think I can like, have them so that I can have like one pole and then like have one on one side, one Jeff: I have a tall pole. Christina: and, and yeah, that’s what she said. Um, Jeff: as soon as I said it, I was like, for fuck’s sake. But Christina: um, but, uh, but, but yeah, but so that way I think I, I can, I, in theory, I can stack the market and have ’em side by side. I don’t know. Um, I got that. I, I had to call Tron and, and order that from them. [00:38:00] Um, it was only a hundred dollars for, for the poll and then $50 for a handling fee. Jeff: It’s not easy to ship a tall pole. Brett: That’s what she said. Christina: that is what she said. Uh, that is exactly what she said. But yeah, so I, I, the, the, the unfortunate thing is that, um, I, um, I, I had to, uh, get a, like all these, they, they came in literally right before Thanksgiving, and then I’ve had, like, all my back stuff has Jeff: Yeah, no Christina: debilitating, but I’m looking forward to, um, getting them set up and used. And, uh, yeah. Review Plans and Honest Assessments Christina: And then full review will be coming to, uh, to, I have to post a review on Reddit, but then I will also be doing a more in depth review, uh, on this podcast if anybody’s interested in, in other places too, to like, let let you know, like if it’s worth your money or not. Um, ’cause there, like I said, there are, there are a few other options out there. So it’s not one of those things where like, you know, um, like, thank you very much for the free monitor, um, monitors. But, but I, I will, I will give like the, the, you know, an honest assessment or Current Display Setup Brett: So [00:39:00] do you currently have a two display setup? Christina: No. Um, well, yes, and kind of, so I have my, my, I have my 5K studio display, and then I have like my iMac that I use as a two to display setup. But then otherwise, what I’ve had to do, and this is actually part of why I’m looking forward to this, is I have a 4K 27 inch monitor, but it’s garbage. And it, it’s one of those things where I don’t wanna use it with my Mac. And so I wind up only using it with my, with my Windows machine, with my framework desktop, um, with my Windows or Linux machine. And, and because that, even though I, it supports Thunderbolt, the Apple display is pain in the ass to use with those things. It doesn’t have the KVM built in. Like, it doesn’t like it, it just, it’s not good for that situation. So yeah, this will be of this size. I mean, again, like I, I, I’m 2 32 inch monitors. I don’t know how I’m gonna deal with that on my Jeff: I Brett: yeah. So right now I’m looking at 2 32 inch like UHD monitors, Christina: Yeah,[00:40:00] Brett: I will say that on days when my neck hurts, it sucks. It’s a, it’s too wide a range to, to like pan back and forth quickly. Like I’ll throw my back out, like trying to keep track of stuff. Um, but I have found that like if I keep the second display, just like maybe social media apps is the way I usually set it up. And then I only work on one. I tried buying an extra wide curve display, hated it. Jeff: Uh, I’ve always wanted to try one, but Christina: I don’t like them. Jeff: Yeah. Christina: Well, for me, well for me it’s two things. One, it’s the, I don’t love the whole like, you know, thing or whatever, but the big thing honestly there, if you could give me, ’cause people are like, oh, you can get a really big 5K, 2K display. I’m like, that’s not a 5K display. That is 2 27 inch, 1440 P displays. One, you know, ultra wide, which is great. Good for you. That’s not retina. And I’m a sicko Who [00:41:00] needs the, the pixel doubling? Like I wish that my eyes could not use that, but, but, but, Jeff: that needs the pixel. Like was that the headline of your Reddit, uh, Christina: no, no. It wasn’t, it wasn’t. But, but maybe it should be. Hi, I’m a sicko who only, um, fucks with, with, with, with, with, with, with retina displays. Ask me anything. Um, but no, but that’s a good point. Brett: I think 5K Psycho is the Christina: 5K Sicko is the po is the po title. I like that. I like that. No, what I’m thinking about doing and that’s great to know, Brett. Um, this kind of reaffirms my thing. Thunderbolt KVM and Display Preferences Christina: So what’s nice about these monitors is that they come with like, built in like, um, Thunderbolt 5K VM. So, which is nice. So you could conceivably have multiple, you know, computers, uh, connected, you know, to to, to one monitor, which I really like. Um, I mean like, ’cause like look, I, I’ve bitched and moaned about the studio display, um, primarily for the price, but at the same time, if mine broke tomorrow and if I didn’t have any way to replace it, I’ve, I’ve also gone on record saying I would buy a new one immediately. As mad as I am about a [00:42:00] lot of different things with that, that the built-in webcam is garbage. The, you know, the, the fact that there’s not a power button is garbage. The fact that you can’t use it with multiple inputs, it’s garbage. But it’s a really good display and it’s what I’m used to. Um, it’s really not any better than my LG Ultra fine from 2016. But you know what? Whatever it is, what it is. Um. I, I am a 5K sicko, but being able to, um, connect my, my personal machine and my work machine at the same time to one, and then have my Windows slash Linux computer connected to another, I think that’s gonna be the scenario where I’m in. So I’m not gonna necessarily be in a place where I’m like, okay, I need to try to look at both of them across 2 32 inch displays. ’cause I think that that, like, that would be awesome. But I feel like that’s too much. Brett: I would love a decent like Thunderbolt KVM setup that could actually swap like my hubs back and Christina: Yes. MacBook Pro and Studio Comparisons Brett: Um, so, ’cause I, I have a studio and I have my, uh, Infor MacBook Pro [00:43:00] and I actually work mostly on the MacBook Pro. Um, but if I could easily dock it and switch everything on my desk over to it, I would, I would work in my office more often. ’cause honestly, the M four MacBook Pro is, it’s a better machine than the original studio was. Um, and I haven’t upgraded my studio to the latest, but, um, I imagine the new one is top notch. Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. Brett: my, my other one, a couple years old now is already long in the tooth. Christina: No, I mean, they’re still good. I mean, it’s funny, I saw that some YouTube video the other day where they were like, the best value MacBook you can get is basically a 4-year-old M1 max. And I was like, I don’t know about that guys. Like, I, I kind of disagree a little bit. Um, but the M1 max, which is I think is what is in the studio, is still a really, really good ship. But to your point, like they’ve made those, um. You know, the, the, the new ones are still so good. Like, I have an M three max as my personal laptop, and [00:44:00] that’s kind of like the dog chip in the, in the m um, series lineup. So I kind of am regretful for spending six grand on that one, but it is what it is, and I’m like, I’m not, I’m not upgrading. Um, I mean, maybe, maybe in, in next year if, if the M five Pro, uh, or M five max or whatever is, is really exceptional, maybe I’ll look at, okay, how much will you give me to, to trade it in? But even then, I, I, but I feel like I’m at that point where I’m like, it gets to a point where like it’s diminishing returns. Um, but, uh, just in terms of my own budget. But, um, yeah, the, the new just info like pro or or max, whatever, Brett: I have, I have an M four MacBook Pro sitting around that I keep forgetting to sell. Uh, it’s the one that I, it only had a 256 gigabyte hard drive, Jeff: what happened to me when I bought my M1, Brett: and I, and I regretted that enough that I just ordered another one. But, uh, for various reasons, I couldn’t just return the one I didn’t Jeff: ’cause it was.[00:45:00] Brett: so now I, now I have to sell it and I should sell it while it’s still a top of the line machine Christina: Sell it before, sell, sell, sell, sell it before next month, um, or, or February or whenever they sell it before then the, the pros come out. ’cause right now the M five base is out, but the pros are not. So I think feel like you could still get most of your value for it, especially since it has very few battery cycles. Be sure to put the battery cycles on your Facebook marketplace or eBay thing or whatever. Um, I bought my, uh, she won’t listen to this so she won’t know, but, um, they, there was a, a killer Cyber Monday deal, uh, for Best Buy where they had like a, the, the, the, so it’s several years old, but it was the, the M two MacBook Air, but the one that they upgraded to 16 gigs of Ram when Apple was like, oh, we have to have Apple Intelligence and everything, because they actually thought that they were actually gonna ship Apple Intelligence. So they like went back and they, like, they, they, you know, retconned like made the base model MacBook Air, like 16 [00:46:00] gigs. Um, and, uh, anyway, it was, it was $600, um, Jeff: still crazy. Christina: which, which like even for like a, a, a 2-year-old machine or whatever, I was like, yeah, she, my sister, I think she’s on like, like a 2014 or older than that. Like, like MacBook Air. She doesn’t even know where the MagSafe is. I don’t think she even knows where the laptop is. So she’s basically doing everything like on her phone and I’m like, okay, you need a laptop of some type, but at this point. I do feel strongly that like the, the, the $600 or, or, or actually I think it was $650, it was actually less, it is actually more expensive than what the, the, the Cyber Monday sale was, um, the M1, Walmart, MacBook Air. I’m like, absolutely not like that is at this point, do not buy that. Right? Like, I, especially with eight gigs of ram, I’m, I’m like, it’s been, it’s five years old. It’s a, it was a great machine and it was great value for a long time. $200. Cool, right? Like, if you could get something like use and, and, and, and if you could replace the battery or, you know, [00:47:00] for, for, you know, not, not too much money or whatever. Like, I, I, I could see like an argument to be made like value, right? But there’d be no way in hell that I would ever spend or tell anybody else to spend $650 on that new, but $600 for an M two with Jeff: Now we’re talking. Christina: which has the redesign brand new. I’m like, okay. Spend $150 more and you could have got the M four, um, uh, MacBook Air, obviously all around Better Machine. But for my sister, she doesn’t need that, Jeff: What do we have to do to put your sister in this M two MacBook Christina: that, that, that, that, that, that’s exactly it. So I, I, I was, well, also, it was one of those things I was like, I think that she would rather me spend the money on toys for my nephew for Santa Claus than, than, uh, giving her like a, a processor upgrade. Um, Jeff: Claus isn’t real. Brett: Oh shit. Jeff: Gotcha. Every year I spoil it for somebody. This year it was Christina and Brett. Sorry guys. Brett: right. Well, can I tell you guys Jeff: Yeah. [00:48:00] Brett Software. Brett: two quick projects before we do Jeff: Hold on. You don’t have to be quick ’cause you could call it Brett: We’re already at 45 minutes and I want Jeff: What I’m saying, skip GrAPPtitude. This is it? Brett: okay. Christina: us about Mark. Tell us about your projects. Brett: So, so Mark three is, there’s a public, um, test flight beta link. Uh, if you go to marked app.com, not marked two app.com, uh, marked app.com. Uh, you, there’s a link in the, in the, at the top for Christina: Join beta. Mm-hmm. Brett: Um, and that is public and you can join it and you can send me feedback directly through email because, um, uh, uh, the feedback reporter sucks for test flight and you can’t attach files. And half the time they come through as anonymous feedback and I can’t even follow up on ’em. So email me. But, um, I’ll be announcing that on my blog soon-ish. Um, right now there’s like [00:49:00] maybe a couple dozen, um, testers and I, it’s nice and small and I’m solving the biggest bugs right away. Um, so that’s been, that’s been big. Like Mark, even since we last talked has added. Do you remember Jeff when Merlin was on and he wanted to. He wanted to be able to manage his styles, um, and disable built-in styles. There’s now a whole table based style manager where you Jeff: saw that. Brett: you can, you can reorder, including built-in styles. You can reorder, enable, disable, edit, duplicate. Um, it’s like a full, full fledged, um, style manager. And I just built a whole web app that is a style generator that gives you, um, automatic like rhythm calculations for your CSS and you can, you can control everything through like, uh, like UI fields instead of having to [00:50:00] write CSS. Uh, but you can also o open up a very, I’ve spent a lot of time on the code mirror CSS editor in the web app. Uh, so, and it’s got live preview as you edit in the code mirror field. Um, so that’s pretty cool. And that’s built into marts. So if you go to style, um, generate style, it’ll load up a, a style generator for you. Anyway, there’s, there’s a ton. I’m not gonna go into all the details, but, uh, anyone listening who uses markdown for anything, especially if you want ability to export to like Word and epub and advanced PDF export, um, join the beta. Let me know what you think. Uh, help me squash bugs. But the other thing, every time I push a beta for review before the new bug reports come in, I’ve been putting time into a tool. Markdown Processor: Apex Brett: I’m calling [00:51:00] Apex and um, I haven’t publicly announced this one yet, but I probably will by the time this podcast comes out. Jeff: I mean, doesn’t this count? Brett: It, it does. I’m saying like this, this might be a, you hear you heard it here first kind of thing, um, but if you go to github.com/tt sc slash apex, um, I built a, uh, pure C markdown processor that combines syntax from cram down GitHub flavored markdown, multi markdown maku, um, common mark. And basically you can write syntax from any of those processors, including all of their special features, um, and in one document, and then use Apex in its unified mode, and it’ll just figure out what. All of your syntax is supposed to do. Um, so you can take, you can port documents from one platform to another [00:52:00] without worrying about how they’re gonna render. Um, if I can get any kind of adoption with Apex, it could solve a lot of problems. Um, I built it because I want to make it the default processor in marked ’cause right now, you, you have to choose, you know, cram Christina: Which one? Brett: mark and, and choosing one means you lose something in order to gain something. Um, so I wanted to build a universal one that brought together everything. And I added cool features from some extensions of other languages, such as if you have two lists in a row, normally in markdown, it’s gonna concatenate those into one list. Now you can put a carrot on a line between the two lists and it’ll break it into two lists. I also added support for a. An extension to cram down that lets you put double uh, carrots inside a table cell and [00:53:00] create a row band. So like a cell that, that expands it, you rows but doesn’t expand the rest of the row. Um, so you can do cell spans and row spans and it has a relaxed table version where you don’t have to have an alignment row, which is, uh, sometimes we just wanna make quickly table. You make two lines. You put some pipes in. This will, if there’s no alignment row, it will generate a table with just a table body and table data cells in no header. It also allows footers, you can add a footer to a table by using equals in the separator line. Um, it, it’s, Jeff: This is very civilized, Brett: it is. Christina: is amazing, Brett: So where Common Mark is extremely strict about things, um, apex is extremely permissive. Jeff: also itty bitty things like talk about the call out boxes from like Brett: oh yeah, it, it can handle call out syntax from Obsidian and Bear and Xcode Playgrounds. [00:54:00] Um, and it incorporates all of Mark’s syntax for like file includes and even renders like auto scroll pauses that work in marked and some other teleprompter situations. Um, it uses file ude syntax from multi markdown, like, which is just like a curly brace and, uh, marked, which is, uh, left like a double left, uh, angle bracket and then different. Brackets to surround a file name and it handles IA writer file inclusion where you just type a forward slash and then the name of a file and it automatically detects if that file is an image or source code or markdown text, and it will import it accordingly. And if it’s a CSV file, it’ll generate a table from it automatically. It’s, it’s kind of nuts. I, it’s kind of nuts. I could not have done this [00:55:00] without copilot. I, I am very thankful for copilot because my C skills are not, would not on their own, have been up to this task. I know enough to bug debug, but yeah, a lot of these features I got a big hand from copilot on. Jeff: This is also Brett. This is some serious Brett Terpstra. TURPs Hard Christina: Yeah, it is. I was gonna say, this is like Jeff: and also that’s right. Also, if your grandma ever wrote you a note and it, and though you couldn’t really read it, it really well, that renders perfectly Christina: Amazing. No, I was gonna say this is like, okay, so Apex is like the perfect name ’cause this is the apex of Brett. Jeff: Yes. Apex of Brett. Christina: That’s also that, that’s, that’s not an alternate episode title Apex of Brett. Because genuinely No, Brett, like I am, I am so stunned and impressed. I mean, you all, you always impressed me like you are the most impressive like developer that I, that I’ve ever known. But you, this is incredible. And, and this, I, I love this [00:56:00] because as you said, like common Mark is incredibly strict. This is incredibly permissive. But this is great. ’cause there are those scenarios where you might have like, I wanna use one feature from one thing or one from another, or I wanna combine things in various ways, or I don’t wanna have to think about it, you know? Brett: I aals, I forgot to mention I aals inline attribute list, which is a crammed down feature that lets you put curly brackets after like a paragraph and then a colon and then say, dot call out inside the curly brackets. And then when it renders the markdown, it creates that paragraph and adds class equals call out to the paragraph. Um, and in, in Cramon you can apply these to everything from list items to list to block quotes. Like you can do ’em for spans. You could like have one after, uh, link syntax and just apply, say dot external to a link. So the IAL syntax can add IDs classes and uh, arbitrary [00:57:00] attributes to any element in your markdown when it renders to HTML. And, uh, and Apex has first class support for I aals. Was really, that was, that Christina: that was really hard, Brett: I wrote it because I wanted, I wanted multi markdown, uh, for my prose writing, but I really missed the als. Christina: Yes. Okay. Because see, I run into this sort of thing too, right? Because like, this is a problem like that. I mean, it’s a very niche problem, um, that, that, you know, people who listen to this podcast probably are more familiar with than other types of people. But like, when you have to choose your markdown processor, which as you said, like Brett, like that can be a problem. Like, like with, with using Mark or anything else, you’re like, what am I giving up? What do I have? And, and like for me, because I started using mul, you know, markdown, um, uh, largely because of you, um, I think I was using it, I knew about it before you, but largely because of, of, of you, like multi markdown has always been like kind of my, or was historically my flavor of choice. It has since shifted to being [00:58:00] GitHub, labor bird markdown. But that’s just because the industry has taken that on, right? But there were, you know, certain things like in like, you know, multi markdown that work a certain way. And then yeah, there are things in crammed down. There are things in these other things in like, this is just, this is awesome. This Brett: It is, the whole thing is built on top of C mark, GFM, which is GitHub’s port of common mark with the GitHub flavored markdown Christina: Right. Brett: Um, and I built, like, I kept that as a sub-module, totally clean, and built all of this as extensions on top of Cmar, GFM, which, you know, so it has full compatibility with GitHub and with Common Merck by out, like outta the box. And then everything else is built on top of that. So it, uh, it covers, it covers all the bases. You’ll love it Christina: I’m so excited. No, this is awesome. And I Brett: blazing fast. It can render, I have a complex document that, that uses all of its features and it can render it in [00:59:00] 0.006 seconds. Christina: that’s awesome. Jeff: Awesome. Christina: That’s so cool. No, this is great. And yeah, I, and I think that honestly, like this is the sort of thing like if, yeah, if you can eventually get this to like be like the engine that powers like mark three, like, that’ll be really slick, right? Because then like, yeah, okay, I can take one document and then just, you know, kind of, you know, wi with, with the, you know, ha have, have the compatibility mode where you’re like, okay, the unified mode or whatever yo

In this episode, Daniel Lereya (Chief Product and Technology Officer @ Monday.com) shares how they are evolving their engineering roles from developers to builders & system designers, where the lines between product, engineering, and design are intentionally blurred, and developers manage AI Agents as team members, tackling an ever-expanding list of projects. We explore the shift from "developer" to "system designer" and why managing AI agents requires the same skills as managing people. Plus, a case study where the Monday.com team leveraged AI agents to decompose a monolith, autonomously manage the project board and assign strategic / high-risk tasks to humans. ABOUT DANIEL LEREYADaniel Lereya has served as Chief Product and Technology Officer at monday.com since 2023. In this role, he focuses on advancing monday.com's multi-product vision and operational efficiencies while driving execution to support company growth. Previously, he was Vice President of R&D and Product, leading global teams in shaping and executing the company's product strategy through innovation and technology. Before joining monday.com, Daniel held leadership and engineering roles at IBM and SAP. SHOW NOTES:The three core principles of monday.com's culture: Ownership, Transparency, and Speed of Execution (3:59)How AI acts as an accelerant to implement these cultural principles at scale (8:36)Why the “Developer” role is evolving into a “Strategic Builder” and “System Designer” (13:47)Breaking silos: How the “Builder” role blurs the lines between product, engineering, and design (17:13)Real-world example: A designer using AI to submit code and fix UI issues independently (19:09)Case Study: The “Agent Factory” & how a weekend prototype by one leader shifted the product roadmap (21:25)Operationalizing transparency: Using internal tools (“Big Brain”) to align every builder on daily business impact (25:58)The “Kickoff Meeting” framework: A strict protocol for falling in love with the problem, not the solution (32:26)The new management paradigm with AI agents as team members (37:31)Rapid fire questions (42:09) This episode wouldn't have been possible without the help of our incredible production team:Patrick Gallagher - Producer & Co-HostJerry Li - Co-HostNoah Olberding - Associate Producer, Audio & Video Editor https://www.linkedin.com/in/noah-olberding/Dan Overheim - Audio Engineer, Dan's also an avid 3D printer - https://www.bnd3d.com/Ellie Coggins Angus - Copywriter, Check out her other work at https://elliecoggins.com/about/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode: Martin has been learning Go and created: Jivedrop - Drop the mix, ship the show-metadata, cover art, and all

Get featured on the show by leaving us a Voice Mail: https://bit.ly/MIPVM

On this episode of the Ruff Talk VR podcast we are back in studio to talk all the latest VR news (and finish recording for our showcase on Saturday December 13th)! And this episode is STACKED! Including our first impressions on our PS VR2, our thoughts on Walkabout Mini Golf: Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Gran Turismo 7 DLC, some Quest 4 rumors, new VR games like Thief VR, How to God, and Deadly Delivery, as well a slew of new game announcements such as Guardians Planetfall, and much more!Use code RUFFTALKVR at checkout to save on any game or hardware on the Meta Quest store and help support the show!Big thank you to all of our Patreon supporters! Become a supporter of the show today at https://www.patreon.com/rufftalkvrDiscord: https://discord.gg/9JTdCccucSPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/rufftalkvrIf you enjoy the podcast be sure to rate us 5 stars and subscribe! Join our official subreddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/RuffTalkVR/0:00 - Episode start1:10 - PS VR2 first impressions16:50 - Walkabout Mini Golf Alice's Adventures in Wonderland Impressions26:15 - New games released29:50 - Stellar Cafe release date31:45 - Gran Turismo 7 free DLC41:30 - Meta Reality Labs 30% cuts45:55 - Neolithic Dawn release date48:05 - Meta Quest 4 rumors51:40 - Birdseed VR release window58:07 - Guardians Planetfall59:15 - Walkabout Mini Golf/Pencil collab1:03:35 - Skytail1:04:45 - Sol Protocol 1:07:30 - Legendary ales DLC1:09:55 - Banners and Bastions release date1:12:25 - Meta Quest exclusive Avatar: Fire and Ash clip1:14:10 - Tracked: Shoot to Survive update1:15:45 - Dread Meridian multiplayer 1:17:50 - Alliance Tales: Battle For The Frontier1:20:05 - Pirates VR: Jolly Roger1:21:55 - Meta Quest share your activity on Discord1:24:40 - Apple's Head of UI leaves for Meta1:29:55 - Meta Smart Glasses SDK1:32:30 - Upcoming VR GamesSupport the show

This week we have Eric Seidel, co-creator of Flutter and founder of Shorebird. Eric shares his journey from building WebKit at Apple and Chrome at Google to creating Flutter, a multi-platform UI framework that compiles to native code. We talk about the technical challenges of browser engines, why the web couldn't deliver high-quality mobile apps, and how Shorebird is solving Flutter's code push problem to enable instant app updates without app store approval.https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericseidel/https://shorebird.dev/https://bsky.app/profile/eseidel.comhttps://github.com/eseidel

Bizi dinlemekten keyif alıyorsanız, kahve ısmarlayarak bizi destekleyebilir ve Telegram grubumuza katılabilirsiniz. :)Yorumlarınızı, sorularınızı ya da sponsorluk tekliflerinizi info@farklidusun.net e-posta adresine iletebilirsiniz.Zaman damgaları:00:00 - Alan Dye Apple'dan ayrılıyor12:45 - Haftamız nasıl geçti, Etkinlikler30:47 - Eğitimde Teknolojinin Yeri53:28 - Okuduklarımız59:24 - Ev Krizi1:11:48 - Okuduklarımız Devam, Enshittification1:54:23 - İzlediklerimiz, Mr. Scorsese2:20:14 - Oynadıklarımız Bölüm linkleri:MonoforApple's head of UI design is leaving for MetaJohn Giannandrea to retire from AppleHamburg, deine PerlenWe need to destroy the data centers and start over from a pre internet era!!AI Detectors Claim the Declaration of Independence Was 98% AI-GeneratedPotato or Tomato? - Jamie Oliver's Food RevolutionChatGPT firm blames boy's suicide on ‘misuse' of its technologyKaybolan BağlarThe Dutch Plan to Build 10 New CitiesCompany Of OneAgainst the GrainEnshittification: Why Everything Suddenly Got Worse and What to Do About ItThe Anxious GenerationSuperbloom: How Technologies of Connection Tear Us ApartMr. ScorseseIT: Welcome to DerryThe Evolution of ARC Raiders EP1 - Finding ARC Raiders

First things first: David and Nilay are both having some TV problems, and they need to talk it out. But then they get to the news of the week, including Samsung's new extra-foldy foldable phone, and a big change in the design departments at both Apple and Meta. What does it all say about the future of smart glasses? After that, the hosts talk through why Sam Altman declared a code red inside of OpenAI in order to redirect focus to ChatGPT — and whether the technology that has made all these products possible is actually the right technology moving forward. Finally, in the lightning round, it's time for Brendan Carr is a Dummy, recap season, "dear algo," and thermostats. Further reading: Samsung's Z TriFold is official and it looks like a tablet with a phone attached  Huawei tris again.  Huawei's first trifold is a great phone that you shouldn't buy  Apple's head of UI design is leaving for Meta  Apple AI chief steps down following Siri setbacks  Louie Mantia's blog post about Dye Zuck's post about the new team Linux usage on Steam hits a record high for the second month in a row  OpenAI declares ‘code red' as Google catches up in AI race  OpenAI just made another circular deal  Anthropic's AI bubble ‘YOLO' warning  Anthropic's racing OpenAI to go public  Normalizing extraterrestrial data centers I tested five AI browsers and lost my mind in the process The AI boom is based on a fundamental mistake Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research FCC boss Brendan Carr claims another victory over DEI as AT&T drops programs First there was nothing, then there was Hoto and Fanttik This new Honeywell Home smart thermostat can answer your Ring doorbell Spotify Wrapped 2025 turns listening into a competition  YouTube introduces its own version of Spotify Wrapped for videos  Amazon Music Delivered puts your top tunes on a festival poster.  Google Photos Recap will tell you how many selfies you took this year “Dear algo.”  Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed.We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to vergecast@theverge.com or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thanksgiving is over and Dave and I are back at it! We have a great conversation about sharing some time with family over the holidays, a router failure and then dive into some big Apple topics. Apple's VP of AI is retiring (finally) and Apple is revamping the entire team. Another Apple executive is leaving the company for Meta—Alan Dye who was responsible for UI is leaving, although some are not dissapointed. Brought to you by: Surfshark VPN: Go to https://surfshark.com/dalrymple or use code dalrymple at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN! Show Notes: Apple to Revamp AI Team After Announcing Top Executive's Departure Apple UI Design Chief Alan Dye Leaving for Meta Meta plans to launch a creative studio that will be led by former Apple UI designer Alan Dye iPhone 17 Demand Is Breaking Apple's Sales Records Naming the Random Street Near the Dumpsters Apple's Founding Papers Return to Auction, Could Fetch Up to $4 Million Shows and movies we're watching The Control Room, BritBox HBO Max Butchers 'Mad Men' in Botched 'Remastering' Beatles anthology, Disney+. My Life as a Rolling Stone, MGM+

We discuss FluxPose potentially becoming the spiritual successor to Lighthouse body tracking, GravityXR building a chip to enable ultralight headsets, reports that Meta Reality Labs is facing a budget cut, and Apple's Head of UI leaving to lead design at Meta.Here's the full topic list, in order:1. Quest Gets Second Exclusive 'Avatar: Fire and Ash' Clip2. Visiting Meta's Los Angeles Store3. FluxPose Could Be The Spiritual Successor To Lighthouse Body Tracking4. GravityXR Builds Chip To Enable Ultralight Headsets5. Meta's Smart Glasses SDK Now Available To Build With6. Meta Reality Labs Reportedly Facing Up To 30% Budget Cut7. Apple's Head Of UI Leaves To Lead Design At Meta Reality Labs

In this LaunchPad episode, Dan K. Snelson shares a real-world solution for surfacing Mac compliance info using swiftDialog + Jamf Pro. His “Mac Health Check” tool acts as a visual, interactive dashboard for users with no configuration changes needed. Learn how to: • Display health and compliance info via Self Service • Customize dialog UI with swiftDialog • Log results for IT review   Perfect for orgs that want more visibility without disruption.  

Send us a text!Watch this episode on YouTubeThis week, it's the biggest brain drain at Apple for decades — and a lot of Apple fans are celebrating! Also: Intel is coming back to the Mac (but it's not what you think!) and another pedantic Mac question only Griffin can answer. This episode supported by:Listeners like you. Your support helps us fund CultCast Off-Topic, a new weekly podcast of bonus content available for everyone; and helps us secure the future of the podcast. You also get access to The CultClub Discord, where you can chat with us all week long, give us show topics, and even end up on the show. Support The CultCast at support.thecultcast.com — or unsubscribe at unfork.thecultcast.comCultCloth will keep your iPhone, MacBook, display, guitars, glasses and lenses sparkling clean! For a limited time use code CULTCAST at checkout to score a two free CarryCloths with any order $20+ at CultCloth.coNordLayer is an easy to use and easy to set up security platform for businesses. Get the exclusive Black Friday offer: 28% off NordLayer yearly plans with the coupon code cultcast-28. Try it risk-free with a 14-day money-back guarantee at nordlayer.com/cultcast.This week's stories:Apple design chief quits for Meta. Some say good riddance!Social media users responded to big news that Alan Dye will join Meta with Liquid-Glass-focused sarcasm. Is it really such a big loss?Meet Apple's new UI chief, the man Steve Jobs called ‘Margaret'Meet Steve Lemay, the new head of user interface design at Apple, and learn why Steve Jobs called him “Margaret.”Apple replaces AI chief, taps ex-Googler to fix Apple IntelligenceApple's AI chief is out after a string of failures. Learn about the new leadership for the company's critical AI development efforts.Macs might soon have Intel inside again — but there's a twistIn a surprising shift in Apple's chip strategy, Intel will reportedly fabricate low-end M-series chips for future MacBook Air and iPad Pro.How to find your music stats with Apple Music Replay 2025Apple Music Replay is where you find your most-played songs, artists and albums from 2025. Here's how to find it.Griffin on Apple MusicLewis on Apple MusicLeander on Apple Music

Lex is decking the halls. Sean searches for mistletoe. No, wait. That is later in the month. Right now, housing is the talk of the town! Midnight continues to develop with news that is giving Sean reason to cheer. The schedule for season 1 of Midnight is revealed as Sean worries for the poor 0.1%. News Housing 1st Impressions The talk of the town is the town as Warcraft early access opens up to all who have purchased the upcoming Midnight expansion. Links Housing Early Access Trailer | World of Warcraft: MidnightWhat's Next for WoW Housing? Interview with Devs Jay Hwang and Garth DeAngelis 11.2.7 is Here The prologue to the midnight expansion is live in NA and EU. Midnight Prologue CampaignRevamped New and Returning Player ExperienceLorewalking: ElvesPandaren Heritage ArmorTurbulent Timeways (through to Feb 9th)Brawler's Guild (Next Week) Links https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/2424444211.2.7 The Warning Launch Trailer | World of Warcraft Dungeon Philosophy in Action Changes to the dungeons begin reflecting the team's new philosophies. Standardized short castImportant casts with 4 sec or greater cast timeReduced number of castersBolt-slop reduced damageAnti Focus Fire behaviorCast Audio Notification (player and target) Links New Interrupt Philosophy Showcased in Midnight's Mythic+ Testing - Wowhead News Seeing Red Combat Addons are still allowed to provide a competitive advantage as Blizzard reneges on the entire reason for the addon de-escalation. Through a use of conditionals Platynator was able to color code:BossesLieutenantsCastersMeleeMinor enemiesCasters would only change to their colour when they first cast an interruptible spell.Blizzard has said this is okay but has not made any commitment to put this functionality into the default UI.  Links Color-Coding Enemy Nameplates is Returning in Midnight - Wowhead News Midnight Epic Edition Contest is over Congratulations to Pandachow, NickBeresford, and Random.ffxiv

How to Build a Winning Strategy for Your B2B Brand In a fast-paced business environment, marketers, agencies, and consultants must proactively help clients differentiate their brands in the marketplace. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging, and brand positioning, both for their own brands and key competitors. So how can teams conduct this kind of brand research and competitive analysis in a way that's insightful, efficient, and actionable for planning the next steps? Tune in as the B2B Marketers on Mission Podcast presents the Marketing DEMO Lab Series, where we sit down with Clay Ostrom (Founder, Map & Fire) and his SmokeLadder platform designed for brand research, messaging and positioning analysis, and competitive benchmarking. In this episode, Clay explained the platform's origins and features, emphasizing its role in analyzing brand positioning, core messaging, and competitive landscapes. He also stressed the importance of clear, consistent brand positioning and messaging, and how standardized make it easier to compare brands across multiple business values. Clay also highlighted the value of objective, data-driven analysis to identify brand strengths, weaknesses, and gaps, and how tools like SmokeLadder can save significant time in gathering insights to build trust with clients. He provided practical steps for generating, refining, and exporting brand messaging and analysis for internal or client-facing use. Finally, Clay also discussed how action items and recommendations generated from analysis can immediately support smart brand strategy decisions and expedite trust-building with clients. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_o1PzF1Kk Topics discussed in episode: [1:31] The purpose behind building SmokeLadder and why it matters for B2B teams [12:00] A walkthrough of the SmokeLadder platform and how it works [14:51] SmokeLadder's core features [17:48] How positioning scores and category rankings are calculated [35:36] How differentiation and competitors are analyzed inside SmokeLadder [44:07] How SmokeLadder builds messaging and generates targeted personas [50:24] The key benefits and unique capabilities that set SmokeLadder apart Companies and links: Clay Ostrom Map & Fire SmokeLadder Transcript Christian Klepp  00:00 In an increasingly competitive B2B landscape, marketers, agencies and consultants, need to proactively find ways to help their clients stand out amidst the digital noise. One way of doing this is by analyzing the strategy, messaging and positioning of their own brands and those of their competitors. So how can they do this in a way that’s insightful, efficient and effective? Welcome to this first episode of the B2B Marketers in the Mission podcast Demo Lab Series, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp. Today, I’ll be talking to Clay Ostrom about this topic. He’s the owner and founder of the branding agency Map and Fire, and the creator of the platform Smoke Ladder that we’ll be talking about today. So let’s dive in. Christian Klepp  00:42 All right, and I’m gonna say Clay Ostrom. Welcome to this first episode of the Demo Lab Series. Clay Ostrom  00:50 I am super excited and very honored to be the first guest on this new series. It’s awesome. Christian Klepp  00:56 We are honored to have you here. And you know, let’s sit tight, or batten down the hatches and buckle up, and whatever other analogy you want to throw in there, because we are going to unpack a lot of interesting features and discuss interesting topics around the platform that you’ve built. And I think a good place to start, perhaps Clay before we start doing a walk through of the platform is, but let’s start at the very beginning. What motivated you to create this platform called Smoke Ladder. Clay Ostrom  01:31 So we should go all the way back to my childhood. I always dreamed of, you know, working on brand and positioning. You know, that was something I’ve always thought of since the early days, but no, but I do. I own an agency called Map and Fire, so I’ve been doing this kind of work for over 10 years now, and have worked with lots and lots of different kinds of clients, and over that time, developed different frameworks and a point of view about how to do this kind of work, and when the AI revolution kind of hit us all, it just really struck me that this was an opportunity to take a lot of that thinking and a lot of that, you know, again, my perspective on how to do this work and productize that and turn it into something that could be used by people when we’re not engaged with them, in some kind of service offering. So, so that was kind of the kernel of it. I actually have a background in computer science and product. So it was sort of this natural Venn diagram intersection of I can do some product stuff, I can do brand strategy stuff. So let’s put it together and build something. Christian Klepp  02:46 And the rest, as they say, is history. Clay Ostrom  02:49 The rest, as they say, is a lot of nights and weekends and endless hours slaving away at trying to build something useful. Christian Klepp  02:58 Sure, sure, that certainly is part of it, too. Clay Ostrom  03:01 Yeah. Christian Klepp  03:02 Let’s not keep the audience in suspense for too long here, right? Like, let’s start with the walk through. And before you share your screen, maybe I’ll set this up a little bit, right? Because you, as you said, like, you know, you’ve built this platform. It’s called Smoke Ladder, which I thought was a really clever name. It’s, you like to describe it as, like, your favorite SEO (Search Engine Optimization) tool, but for brand research and analysis. So I would say, like, walk us through how somebody would use this platform, like, whether they be a marketer that’s already been like in the industry for years, or is starting out, or somebody working at a brand or marketing agency, and how does the platform address these challenges or questions that people have regarding brand strategy, analysis and research? Clay Ostrom  03:49 Yeah, yeah. I use that analogy of the SEO thing, just because, especially early on, I was trying to figure out the best way to describe it to someone who hasn’t seen it before. I feel like it’s a, I’m not going to fall into the trap of saying, this is the only product like this, but it has its own unique twists with what it can do. And I felt like SEO tools are something everybody has touched at one point or another. So I was using this analogy of, it’s like the s, you know, Semrush of positioning and messaging or Ahrefs, depending on your if you’re a Coke or Pepsi person. But I always felt like that was just a quick way to give a little idea of the fact that it’s both about analyzing your own brand, but it’s also about competitive analysis and being able to see what’s going on in the market or in your landscape, and looking specifically at what your competitors are doing and what their strengths and weaknesses are. So does that resonate with you in terms of, like, a shorthand way, I will say, I don’t. I don’t say that. It’s super explicitly on the website, but it’s been in conversation. Christian Klepp  05:02 No, absolutely, absolutely, that resonated with me. The only part that didn’t resonate with me is that I’m neither a coke or a Pepsi person. I’m more of a ginger ale type of guy. I digress. But yeah, let’s what don’t you share your screen, and let’s walk through this, right? Like, okay, if a marketing person were like, use the platform to do some research on, perhaps that marketers, like own company and the competitors as well, right? Like, what would they do? Clay Ostrom  05:32 Yeah, so that’s, that is, like you were saying, there’s, sort of, I guess, a few different personas of people who would potentially use this. And initially I was thinking a little more about both in house, people who, you know, someone who’s working on a specific brand, digging really deep on their own brand, whether they’re, you know, the marketing lead or whatever, maybe they’re the founder, and then this other role of agency owners, or people who work at an agency where they are constantly having to look at new brands, new categories, and quickly get up to speed on what those brands are doing and what’s the competitive space look like, you know, for that brand. And that’s something that, if you work at an agency, which obviously we both have our own agencies, we do this stuff weekly. I mean, every time a new lead comes in, we have to quickly get up to speed and understand something about what they do. And one of the big gaps that I found, and I’d be curious to kind of hear your thoughts on this, but I’ve had a lot of conversations with other agency owners, and I think one of the biggest gaps is often that brands are just not always that great at explaining their own brand or positioning or differentiation to you, and sometimes they have some documentation around it, but a lot of times they don’t. A lot of it’s word of mouth, and that makes it really hard to do work for them. If whatever you’re doing for them, whether that’s maybe you are working on SEO or maybe you’re working on paid ads or social or content, you have to know what the brand is doing and kind of what they’re again, what their strengths and weaknesses are, so that you can talk about that. I mean, do you come across that a lot in your work? Christian Klepp  07:33 How do I say this without offending anybody? I find, I mean jokes aside, I find, more often than not, in the especially in the B2B space, which is an area that I operate in, I find 888 point five times out of 10. We are dealing with companies that have a they, have a very rude, rudimentary, like, framework of something that remotely resembles some form of branding. And I know that was a very long winded answer, but it’s kind of sort of there, but not really, if you know what I mean. Clay Ostrom  08:17 Yeah. Christian Klepp  08:17 And there have been other extreme cases where they’ve got the logo and the website, and that’s as far as their branding goals. And I would say that had they had all these, this discipline, like branding system and structure in place, then people like maybe people like you and I will be out on a job, right and it’s something, and I’m sure you’ve come across this, and we’ll probably dig into this later, but like you, it’s something I’ve come across several times, especially in the B2B space, where branding is not taken seriously until it becomes serious. I know that sounds super ironic, right, but, and it’s to the point of this platform, right, which we’re going to dig into in a second, but it’s, it’s things, for instance, positioning right, like, are you? Are you, in fact, strategically positioned against competitors? Is your messaging resonating with, I would imagine, especially in the B2B context, with the multiple group target groups that you have, or that your company is, is going after? Right? Is that resonating, or is this all like something that I call the internal high five? You’ve this has all been developed to please internal stakeholders and and then you take it to market, and it just does not, it just does not resonate with the target audience at all. Right? So there’s such a complex plethora of challenges here, right? That people like yourself and like you and I are constantly dealing with, and I think that’s also part of the reason why I would say a platform like this is important, because it helps to not just aggregate data. I mean, certainly it does that too, but it helps. To put things properly, like into perspective at speed. I think that might be, that might be something that you would have talked about later, but it does this at speed, because I think, from my own experience, one of the factors in our world that sometimes works against us is time, right? Clay Ostrom  10:19 No, I totally agree, yeah, and, you know, we’re lucky, I guess would be the word that we are often hired to work on a company strategy with them and help them clarify these things. Christian Klepp  10:33 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  10:34 There are a million other flavors of agencies out there who are being hired to execute on work for a brand, and not necessarily being brought in to redefine, you know what the brand, you know they’re positioning and their messaging and some of these fundamental things, so they’re kind of stuck with whatever they get. And like you said, a lot of times it’s not much. It might be a logo and a roughly put together website, and maybe not a whole lot else. So, yeah, but I think your other point about speed is that was a huge part of this. I think the market is only accelerating right now, because it’s becoming so much easier to start up new companies and new brands and new products. And now we’ve got vibe coding, so you can technically build a product in a day, maybe launch it the next day, start marketing it, you know, by the weekend. And all of this is creating noise and competition, and it’s all stuff that we have to deal with as marketers. We have to understand the landscape. We’ve got to quickly be able to analyze all these different brands, see where the strengths and weaknesses are and all that stuff. So… Christian Klepp  11:46 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  11:46 But, yeah, that, I think that the speed piece is a huge part of this for sure. Christian Klepp  11:51 Yeah. So, so we’re okay, so we’re on the I guess this, this will probably be the homepage. So just walk us through what, what a marketing person would do if they want to use this platform, yeah? Clay Ostrom  12:00 So the very first thing you do when you come in, and this was when I initially conceived of this product, one of the things that I really wanted was the ability to have very quick feedback, be able to get analysis for whatever brand you’re looking at, you know, right away to be able to get some kind of, you know, insight or analysis done. So the first thing you can do, and you can do this literally, from the homepage of the website, you can enter in a URL for a brand, come into the product, even before you’ve created an account, you can come in and you can do an initial analysis, so you can put in whatever URL you’re looking at, could be yours, could be a competitor, and run that initial analysis. What we’re looking at here, this is, if you do create an account, this is, this becomes your, as we say, like Home Base, where you can save brands that you’re looking at. You can see your history, all that good stuff. And it just gives you some quick bookmarks so that you can kind of flip back and forth between, maybe it’s your brand, maybe it’s some of the competitors you’re looking at and then it gives you just some quick, kind of high level directional info. And I kind of break it up into these different buckets. Clay Ostrom  13:23 And again, I’d love to kind of hear if this is sort of how you think about it, too. But there’s sort of these different phases when you’re working on a brand. And again, this is sort of from an agency perspective, but you first got the sort of the research and the pitch piece. So this is before maybe you’re even working with them. You’re trying to get an understanding of what they do. Then we have discovery and onboarding, where we’re digging in a little bit deeper. We’re trying to really put together, what does the brand stand for, what are their strengths and weaknesses? And then we have the deeper dive, the strategy and differentiation. And this is where we’re really going in and getting more granular with the specific value points that they offer, doing some of that messaging analysis, finding, finding some of the gaps of the things that they’re talking about or not talking about, and going in deeper. So it kind of break it up into these buckets, based on my experience of how we engage with clients. Does that? Does that make sense to you, like, does that? Christian Klepp  14:28 It does make sense, I think. But what could be helpful for the audience is because this, this almost looks like it’s a pre cooked meal. All right, so what do we do we try another I mean, I think you use Slack for the analysis. Why don’t we use another brand, and then just pop it into that analysis field, and then see what it comes out with. Clay Ostrom  14:51 So the nice thing about this is, if you are looking at a brand that’s been analyzed, you’re going to get the data up really quickly. It’ll be basically pop up instantly. But you can analyze a brand from scratch as well. Just takes about a minute or so, basically, to kind of do some of the analysis. So for the sake of a demo, it’s a little easier just to kind of look at something that we’ve got in there. But if it’s a brand that you know, maybe you’re looking at a competitor for one of your brands, you know, there’s a good chance, because we’ve got about 6000 brands that we’ve analyzed in here, that there’s a good chance there’ll be some info on them. But so this is pipe drive. So whoever’s not familiar Pipedrive is, you know, it’s a CRM  (Customer Relationship Management), it’s, it’s basically, you know, it’s a lighter version of a HubSpot or Salesforce basically track deals and opportunities for business, but this so I flipped over. I don’t know if it was clear there, but I flipped over to this brand brief tab. And this is where we we get, essentially, a high level view of some key points about the brand and and I think about this as this would be something that you would potentially share with a client if you were, you know, working with them and you wanted to review the brand with them and make sure that your analysis is on point, but you’ll see it’s kind of giving you some positioning scores, where you rank from a category perspective, message clarity, and then we’ve got things like a quick overview, positioning summary, who their target persona is, in this case, sales manager, sales operation lead, and some different value points. And then it starts to get a little more granular. We get into like key competitors, Challenger brands. We do a little SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats) analysis, and then maybe one of the more important parts is some of these action items. So what do we do with this? Yeah, and obviously, these are, these are starting points. This is not, it’s not going to come in and, you know, instantly be able to tell you strategically, exactly what to do, but it’s going to give you some ideas of based on the things we’ve seen. Here are some reasonable points that you might want to be looking at to, you know, improve the brand. Make it make it stronger. Christian Klepp  17:13 Gotcha. Gotcha. Now, this is all great clay, but like, I think, for the benefit of the audience, can we scroll back up, please. And let’s just walk through these one by one, because I think it’s important for the audience/potential future users,/ customers of Smoke Ladder, right? To understand, to understand this analysis in greater depth, and also, like, specifically, like, let’s start with a positioning score right, like, out of 100 like, what is this? What is this based on? And how was this analyzed? Let’s start with that. Clay Ostrom  17:48 Yeah, and this is where the platform really started. And I’m going to actually jump over to the positioning tab, because this will give us the all the detail around this particular feature. But this is, this was where I began the product this. I kind of think of this as being, in many ways, sort of the heart and soul of it. And when I mentioned earlier about this being based on our own work and frameworks and how we approach this, this is very much the case with this. This is, you know, the approach we use with the product is exactly how we work with clients when we’re evaluating their positioning. And it’s, it’s basically, it’s built off a series of scores. And what we have here are 24 different points of business value, which, if we zoom in just a little bit down here, we can see things like reducing risk, vision, lowering cost, variety, expertise, stability, etc. So there’s 24 of these that we look at, and it’s meant to be a way that we can look across different brands and compare and contrast them. So it’s creating, like, a consistent way of looking at brands, even if they’re not in the same category, or, you know, have slightly different operating models, etc. But what we do is we go in and we score every brand on each of these 24 points. And if we scroll down here a little bit, we can see the point of value, the exact score they got, the category average, so how it compares against, you know, all the other brands we’ve analyzed, and then a little bit of qualitative information about why they got the score. Christian Klepp  19:27 Sorry, Clay, Can I just jump in for a second so these, these attributes, or these key values that you had in the graph at the top right, like, are these consistent throughout regardless of what brand is being analyzed, or the least change. Clay Ostrom  19:42 It’s consistent. Christian Klepp  19:43 Consistent? Clay Ostrom  19:44 Yeah, and that was one of the sort of strategic decisions we had to make with the product. Was, you know, there’s a, maybe another version of this, where you do different points depending on maybe the category, or, you know, things like that. But I wanted to do it consistent because, again, it allows us to look at every brand through the same lens. It doesn’t mean that every brand you know there are certain points of value that just aren’t maybe relevant for a particular brand, and that’s fine, they just won’t score as highly in those but at least it gives us a consistent way to look at so when you’re looking at 10 different competitors, you know you’ve got a consistent way to look at them together,. Christian Klepp  20:26 Right, right, right. Okay, okay, all right, thanks for that. Now let’s go down to the next section there, where you’ve got, like this table with like four different columns here. So you mentioned that these are being scored against other brands in their category. Like, can you share it with the audience? Like, how many other brands are being analyzed here? Clay Ostrom  20:51 Yeah, well, it depends on the category. So again, we’ve got six, you know, heading towards 7000 brands that we’ve analyzed collectively. Each category varies a little bit, but, you know, some categories, we have more brands than others. But what this allows us to do is, again, to quickly look at this and say, okay, for pipe drive, a big focus for pipe drive is organization, simplification. You know, one of their big value props is we’re an easier tool to use than Salesforce or HubSpot. You can get up to speed really quickly. You don’t have all the setup and configurations and all that kind of stuff. So this is showing us that, yes, like their messaging, their content, their brand, does, in fact, do a good job of making it clear that simplicity is a big part of pipe drive’s message. And they do that by talking about it a lot in their messaging, having case studies, having testimonials, all these things that support it. And that’s how we come up with these scores. Is by saying, like the brand emphasizes these points well, they talk about it clearly, and that’s what we base it on. Christian Klepp  22:04 Okay, okay. Clay Ostrom  22:06 But as you come, I was just gonna say as you come down here, you can see, so the green basically means that they score well above average for that particular point. Yellow is, you know, kind of right around average, or maybe slightly above, and then red means that they’re below average for that particular point. So for example, like variety of tools, they don’t emphasize that as much with pipe drive, maybe compared to, again, like a Salesforce or a HubSpot that has a gazillion tools, pipe drive, that’s not a big focus for them. So they don’t score as highly there, but you can kind of just get a quick view of, okay, here are the things that they’re really strong with, and here are the things that maybe they’re, you know, kind of weak or below average. Christian Klepp  22:58 Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s certainly interesting, because I, you know, I’ve, I’ve used the, I’ve used the platform for analyzing some of my clients, competitor brands. And, you know, when I’m looking at this, like analysis with the scoring, with the scoring sheet, it, I think it will also be interesting perhaps in future, because you’ve got a very detailed breakdown of, okay, the factors and how they’re scored, and what the brand value analysis is also, because, again, in the interest of speed and time, it’d be great if the platform can also churn out maybe a one to two sentence like, summary of what is this data telling us, right? Because I’m thinking back to my early days as a product manager, and we would spend hours, like back then on Excel spreadsheets. I’m dating myself a little bit here, but um, and coming up with this analysis and charts, but presenting that to senior management, all they wanted to know was the one to two sentence summary of like, come on. What are you telling me with all these charts, like, what is the data telling you that we need to know? Right? Clay Ostrom  24:07 I know it’s so funny. We again, as strategists and researchers, we love to nerd out about the granular details, but you’re right. When you’re talking to a leader at a business, it does come down to like, okay, great. What do we do? And so, and I flipped back over to slacks. I knew I had already generated this but, but we’re still in the positioning section here, but we have this get insights feature. So basically it will look at all those scores and give you kind of, I think, similar to what you’re describing. Like, here’s three takeaways from what we’re seeing. Okay, okay, great, yeah, so we don’t want to leave you totally on your own to have to figure it all out. We’ll give you, give you a little helping hand. Christian Klepp  24:53 Yeah. You don’t want to be like in those western movies, you’re on your own kid. Clay Ostrom  24:59 Yeah. We try not to strand you again. There’s a lot of data here. I think that’s one of the strengths and and challenges with the platform, is that we try to give you a lot of data. And for some people, you may not want to have to sift through all of it. You might want just sort of give me the three points here. Christian Klepp  25:19 Absolutely, absolutely. And at the very least they can start pointing you in the right direction, and then you could be, you could then, like, through your own initiative, and perhaps dig a little bit deeper and perhaps find some other insights that may be, may be relevant, right? Clay Ostrom  25:35 Totally. Christian Klepp  25:36 Hey, it’s Christian Klepp here. We’ll get back to the episode in a second. But first, I’d like to tell you about a new series that we’re launching on our show. As the B2B landscape evolves, marketers need to adapt and leverage the latest marketing tools and software to become more efficient. Enter B2B Marketers on a Mission Marketing Demo Lab where experts discuss the latest tools and software that empower you to become a better B2B marketer. Tune in as we chat with product experts. Provide unbiased product reviews, give advice and deliver insights into real world applications and actionable tips on tools and technologies for B2B marketing. Subscribe to the Marketing Demo Lab, YouTube channel and B2B Marketers on a Mission, on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Christian Klepp  26:21 All right. Now, back to the show, if we can, if we could jump back, sorry, to the, I think it was the brand brief, right? Like, where we where we started out, and I said, let’s, let’s dig deeper. Okay, so then, then we have, okay, so we talked about positioning score. Now we’re moving on to category rank and message clarity score. What does that look like? Clay Ostrom  26:41 Yeah. So the category rank is, it’s literally just looking at the positioning score that you’ve gotten for the brand and then telling you within this category, where do you sort of fall in the ranking, essentially, or, like, you know, how do we, you know, for comparing the score against all the competitors, where do you fall? So you can see, with Slack, they’re right in the middle. And it’s interesting, because with a product like Slack, even though we all now know what slack is and what it does and everything. Christian Klepp  27:18 Yeah. Clay Ostrom  27:19 The actual messaging and content that they have now, I think maybe doesn’t do as good of a job as it maybe did once upon a time, and it’s gotten as products grow and brands grow, they tend to get more vague, a little more broad with what they talk about, and that kind of leads to softer positioning. So that’s sort of what we’re seeing reflected here. And then the third score is the message clarity score, which we can jump into, like, a whole different piece. Christian Klepp  27:48 Four on a tennis not a very high score, right? Clay Ostrom  27:52 Yeah. And again, I think it’s a product, of, we can kind of jump into that section. Christian Klepp  27:57 Yeah, let’s do that, yeah. Clay Ostrom  27:59 But it’s, again, a product, I think of Slack being now a very mature product that is has gotten sort of a little vague, maybe a little broader, with their messaging. But the message clarity score, we basically have kind of two parts to this on the left hand side are some insights that we gather based on the messaging. So what’s your category, quick synopsis of the product. But then we also do some things, like… Christian Klepp  28:33 Confusing part the most confusing. Clay Ostrom  28:36 Honestly to me, as I get I’d love to hear your experience with this, but coming into a new brand, this is sometimes one of the most enlightening parts, because it shows me quickly where some gaps in what we’re talking about, and in this case, just kind of hits on what we were just saying a minute ago. Of the messaging is overloaded with generic productivity buzzwords, fails to clearly differentiate how Slack is better than email or similar tools, etc. But also, this is another one that I really like, and I use this all the time, which is the casual description. So rather than this technical garbage jargon, you know, speak, just give me. Give it to me in plain English, like we’re just chatting. And so this description of it’s a workplace chat app for teams to message, collaborate, share files. Like, okay, cool. Like, yeah, you know, I get it. Yeah, I already know what slack is. But if I didn’t, that would tell me pretty well. Christian Klepp  29:33 Absolutely, yeah, yeah. No, my experience with this is has been, you know, you and I have been in the branding space for a while. So for the trained eye, when you look at messaging, you’ll know if it’s good or not, right. And we come I mean, I’m sure you do the same clay, but I also come to my own like conclusions based on experience of like, okay, so why do I think that that’s good messaging, or why do I think that that’s confusing messaging? Or it falls short, and why and how can that be improved? But it’s always good to have validation with either with platforms like this, where you have a you have AI, or you have, you have a software that you can use that analyzes, like, for example, like the messaging on a website, and it dissects that and says, Well, okay, so this is what they’re getting, right? So there’s a scoring for that, so it’s in the green, and then this is, this is where it gets confusing, right? So even you run that through, you run that through the machine, and the machine analyzes it as like, Okay, we can’t clearly, clearly define what it is they’re doing based on the messaging, right? And for me, that’s always a it’s good. It’s almost like getting a second doctor’s opinion, right? And then you go, Aha. So I we’ve identified the symptoms now. So let’s find the penicillin, right? Like, let’s find the remedy for this, right? Clay Ostrom  30:56 Yeah, well, and I like what you said there, because part of the value, I think, with this is it’s an objective perspective on the brand, so it doesn’t have any baggage. It’s coming in with fresh eyes, the same way a new customer would come into your website, where they don’t know really much about you, and they have to just take what you’re giving at face value about what you present. And we as people working on brands get completely blinded around what’s actually working, what’s being communicated. There’s so much that we take for granted about what we already know about the brand. And this comes in and just says, Okay, I’m just, I’m just taking what you give me, and I’m going to tell you what I see, and I see some gaps around some of these things. You know, I don’t have the benefit of sitting in your weekly stand up meeting and hearing all the descriptions of what you’re actually doing. Christian Klepp  31:59 I’m sorry to jump in. I’m interested to know, like, just, just based on what we’ve been reviewing so far, like, what has your experience been showing this kind of analysis to clients, and how do they respond to some of this data, for example, that you know, you’re walking us through right now? Clay Ostrom  32:18 Yeah, I think it’s been interesting. Honestly, I think it can sometimes feel harsh. And I think again, as someone who’s both run an agency and also built worked on brands, we get attached to our work on an emotional level. Christian Klepp  32:42 Absolutely. Clay Ostrom  32:42 Even if we think about it as, you know, this is just work, and it’s, you know, whatever, we still build up connections with our work and we want it to be good. And so I think there’s sometimes a little bit of a feeling of wow, like that’s harsh, or I would have expected or thought we would have done better or scored better in certain areas, but that is almost always followed up with but I’m so glad to know where, where we’re struggling, because now I can fix it. I can actually know what to focus on to fix, and that, to me, is what it’s all about, is, yes, there’s a little bit of feelings attached to some of these things, maybe, but at the end of the day, we really want it to be good. We want it to be clear. We don’t want to be a 4 out of 10. We want to be a 10 out of 10. And what specifically do we need to do to get there? And that’s really what we’re trying to reveal with this. So I think, you know, everybody’s a little different, but I would say the reactions are typically a mix of that. It’s like, maybe an ouch, but a Oh, good. Let’s work on it. Christian Klepp  33:55 Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. So we’ve got brand summary, we’ve got fundamentals, then quality of messaging is the other part of it, right? Clay Ostrom  34:02 So, yeah, so this, this is, this is where the actual 4 out of 10 comes. We have these 10 points that we look at and we say, Okay, are you communicating these things clearly? Are you communicating who your target customer is, your category, your offering, where you’re differentiated benefits? Do you have any kind of concrete claim about what you do to support you know what you’re what you’re selling? Is the messaging engaging? Is it concise? You’ll see here a 7% on concise. That’s basically telling us that virtually no brands do a good job of being concise. Only about 7% get a green check mark on this, and kind of similar with the jargon and the vague words big struggle points with almost every brand. Christian Klepp  34:55 Streamline collaboration. Clay Ostrom  34:58 So we can see here with Slack. You know some of the jargon we got, KPIs (Key Performance Indicators), MQLs (Marketing Qualified Lead), if you’re in the space, you could argue like, oh, I kind of know what those things are. But depending on your role, you may not always know. In something like Salesforce marketing cloud, unless you’re a real Salesforce nerd, you probably have no idea what that is. But again, it’s just a way to quickly identify some of those weak points, things that we could improve to make our message more clear. Christian Klepp  35:27 Yes, yes. Okay, so that was the messaging analysis correct? Clay Ostrom  35:33 Yeah. Christian Klepp  35:33 Yeah. Okay. So what else have we got? Clay Ostrom  35:36 Yeah, so I think one other thing we could look at just for a sec, is differentiation, and this is this kind of plays off of what we looked at a minute ago with the positioning scores. But this is a way for us to look head to head with two different brands. So in this case, we’ve got Slack in the red and we’ve got Discord in the greenish blue. And I think of these, these patterns, as sort of the fingerprint of your brand. So where you Where are you strong? Where are you weak? And if we can overlay those two fingerprints on top of each other, we can see, where do we have advantages, and where does our competitor have advantages? So if we come down, we can sort of see, and this is again, for the nerds like me, to be able to come in and go deep, do kind of a deep dive on specifically, why did, why does Discord score better than Slack in certain areas. And at the bottom here we can see a kind of a quick summary. So slack is stronger in simplification, saving time, Discord has some better messaging around generating revenue, lowering costs, marketability. But again, this gives us a way to think about what are the things we want to double down on? So what do we want to actually be known for in the market? Because we can’t be known for everything. You know, buyers can maybe only remember a couple things about us. What are those couple things where we’re really strong, where we really stand out, and we’ve got some separation from the competitors. Christian Klepp  37:18 Right, okay, okay, just maybe we take a step back here, because I think this is great. It’s very detailed. It gets a bit granular, but I think it’s also going back to a conversation that you and I had previously about, like, Okay, why is it so important to be armed with this knowledge, especially if you’re in the marketing role, or perhaps even an agency talking to a potential client going in there already armed with the information about their competitors. And we were talking about this being a kind of like a trust building mechanism, right? For lack of a better description, right? Clay Ostrom  38:03 Yeah, I think to me, what I like about this, and again, this does come out of 10 years of doing work, this kind of work with clients as well, is it’s so easy to fall into a space of soft descriptions around things like positioning and just sort of using vague, you know, wordings or descriptions, and when you can actually put a number on it, which, again, it’s subjective. This isn’t. This isn’t an objective metric, but it’s a way for us to compare and contrast. It allows us to have much more productive conversations with clients, where we can say we looked at your brand, we we what based on our analysis, we see that you’re scoring a 10 and a 9 on simplicity and organization, for example. Is that accurate to you like do you think that’s what you all are emphasizing the most? Does that? Does that resonate and at the same time, we can say, but your competitors are really focused on there. They have a strong, strong message around generating revenue and lowering costs for their customers. Right now, you’re not really talking about that. Is that accurate? Is that like, what you is that strategically, is that what you think you should be doing so really quickly, I’ve now framed a conversation that could have been very loose and kind of, you know, well, what do you think your strategy is about? What do you know? And instead, I can say, we see you being strong in these three points. We see your competitors being strong in these three points. What do you think about that? And I think that kind of clarity just makes the work so much more productive with clients, or just again, working on your own brand internally. So what do you think about that kind of perspective? Christian Klepp  40:08 Yeah, no, no, I definitely agree with that. It’s always and I’ve been that type of person anyway that you know you go into a especially with somebody that hasn’t quite become a client yet, right? One of the most important things is also, how should I put this? Certainly the trust building part of it needs to be there. The other part is definitely a demonstration of competence and ability, but it’s also that you’ve been proactive and done your homework, versus like, Okay, I’m I’m just here as an order taker, right? And let’s just tell me what to do, and I’ll do it right? A lot and especially, I think this has been a trend for a long time already, but a lot of the clients that I’ve worked with now in the past, they want to, they’re looking for a partner that’s not just thinking with them, it’s someone that’s thinking ahead of them. And this type of work, you know what we’re seeing here on screen, this is the type of work that I would consider thinking ahead of them, right? Clay Ostrom  41:18 No, I agree. I think you framed that really well. Of we’re trying to build trust, because if we’re going to make any kind of recommendations around a change or a shift, they have to believe that we know what we’re talking about, that we’re competent, that we’ve done the work. And I think I agree with you. I think like this, it’s kind of funny, like we all, I think, on some base level, are attracted to numbers and scores. It just gives us something to latch on to. But I think it also, like you said, it gives you a feeling that you’ve done your work, that you’ve done your homework, you’ve studied, you’ve you’ve done some analysis that they themselves may have never done on this level. And that’s a big value. Christian Klepp  42:08 Yes, and a big part of the reason just to, just to build on what you said, a big part of the reason why they haven’t done this type of work is because it’s not so much. The cost is certainly one part of it, but it’s the time, it’s a time factor and the resource and the effort that needs to be put into it. Because, you know, like, tell me if you’ve never heard this one before, but there are some, there are some companies that we’ve been working with that don’t actually have a clearly, like, you know, a clear document on who their their target personas are, yeah, or their or their ICPs, never mind the buyer’s journey map. They don’t, they don’t even have the personas mapped out, right? Clay Ostrom  42:52 100% Yeah, it’s, and it’s, I think you’re right. It’s, it’s a mix of time and it’s a mix of just experience where, if you are internal with a brand, you don’t do this kind of work all the time. You might do it at the beginning. Maybe you do a check in every once in a while, but you need someone who’s done this a lot with a lot of different brands so that they can give you guidance through this kind of framework. But so it’s, you know, so some of it is a mix of, you know, we don’t have the time always to dig in like this. But some of it is we don’t even know how to do it, even if we did have the time. So it’s hopefully giving, again, providing some different frameworks and different ways of looking at it. Christian Klepp  43:41 Absolutely, absolutely. So okay, so we’ve gone through. What is it now, the competitor comparison. What else does the platform provide us that the listeners and the audience should be paying attention to here? Clay Ostrom  43:55 So I’ll show you two more quick things. So one is this message building section. So this is… Christian Klepp  44:03 Are you trying to put me out of a job here Clay? Clay Ostrom  44:07 Well, I’ll say this. So far in my experience with this, it’s not going to put us out of a job, but it is going to hopefully make our job easier and better. It’s going to make us better at the work we do. And that’s really, I think that’s, I think that’s kind of, most people’s impression of AI at this point is that it’s not quite there to replace us, but it’s sure, certainly can enhance what we do. Christian Klepp  44:36 Yeah, you’ll excuse me, I couldn’t help but throw that one out. Clay Ostrom  44:38 Yeah, I know, trust me, I’m this. It’s like I’m building a product that, in a sense, is undercutting, you know, the work that I do. So it is kind of a weird thing, but this message building section, which is a new part of the platform. It will come in, and you can see on the right hand side. And there’s sort of a quick summary of all these different elements that we’ve already analyzed. And then it’s going to give you some generated copy ideas, including, if I zoom in a little bit here, we’ve got an eyebrow category. This is again for Slack. It’s giving us a headline idea, stay informed without endless emails. Sub headline call to action, three challenges that your customers are facing, and then three points about your solution that help address those for customers. So it’s certainly not writing all of your copy for you, but if you’re starting from scratch, or you’re working on something new, or even if you’re trying to refresh a brand. I think this can be helpful to give you some messaging that’s hopefully clear. That’s something that I think a lot of messaging misses, especially in B2B, it’s, it’s not always super clear, like what you even do. Christian Klepp  45:56 Don’t get me started. Clay Ostrom  45:59 So hopefully it’s clear. It’s, you know, again, it’s giving you some different ideas. And that you’ll see down here at the bottom, you can, you can iterate on this. So we’ve got several versions. You can actually come in and, you know, you can edit it yourself. So if you say, like, well, I like that, but not quite that, you know, I can, you know, get my human touch on it as well. But yeah, so it’s a place to iterate on message. Christian Klepp  46:25 You can kind of look at it like, let’s say, if you’re writing a blog article, and this will give you the outline, right? Yeah. And then most of the AI that I’ve worked with to generate outlines, they’re not quite there. But again, if you’re starting from zero and you want to go from zero to 100 Well, that’ll, that’ll at least get you to 40 or 50, right? But I’m curious to know, because we’re looking at this now, and I think this, I mean, for me, this is, this is fascinating, but, like, maybe, maybe this will be part of your next iteration. But will this, will this generate messaging that’s already SEO optimized. Clay Ostrom  47:02 You know, it’s not specifically geared towards that, but I would say that it ends up being maybe more optimized than a lot of other messaging because it puts such an emphasis on clarity, it naturally includes words and phrases that I think are commonly used in the space more so than you know, maybe just kind of typical off the shelf Big B2B messaging, Christian Klepp  47:27 Gotcha. I had a question on the target persona that you’ve got here on screen, right? So how does the platform generate the information that will then populate that field because, and when I’m just trying to think about like, you know, because I’ve been, I’ve been in the space for as long as you have, and the way that I’ve generated target personas in the past was not by making a wild guess about, like, you know, looking at the brand’s website. It’s like having conducting deep customer research and listening to hours and hours of recordings, and from there, generating a persona. And this has done it in seconds. So… Clay Ostrom  48:09 Yeah, it’s so the way the system works in a couple different layers. So it does an initial analysis, where it does positioning, messaging analysis and category analysis, then you can generate the persona on top of that. So it takes all the learnings that it got from the category, from the product, from your messaging, and then develops a persona around that. And it’s, of course, able to also pull in, you know, the AI is able to reference things that it knows about the space in general. But I have found, and this is true. I was just having a conversation with someone who works on a very niche brand for a very specific audience, and I was showing him what it had output. And I said, Tell me, like, Don’t hold back. Like, is this accurate? He said, Yeah, this is, like, shockingly accurate for you know, how we view our target customer. So I think it’s pretty good. It’s not again, not going to be perfect. You’re going to need to do some work, and you still got to do the research, but, but, yeah. Christian Klepp  49:13 Okay, fantastic, fantastic. How do, I guess there’s the option, I see it there, like, download the PDF. So anything that’s analyzed on the platform can then be exported in a PDF format, right? Like, like, into a report. Clay Ostrom  49:28 Yeah, right now you can export the messaging analysis, or, sorry, the the messaging ideation that you’ve done, and then in the brand brief you can also, you can download a PDF of the brand brief as well. So, those are the two main areas. I’m still working on some additional exports of data so that people can pull it into a spreadsheet and do some other stuff with it. Christian Klepp  49:49 Fantastic, fantastic. That’s awesome, Clay. I’ve got a couple more questions before I let you go. But this has been, this has been amazing, right? Like and I really hope that whoever’s in the one listening and, most importantly, watching this, I hope that you really do consider like, you know, taking this for a test drive, right? How many I might have asked you this before, because, you know, I am somebody that does use, you know, that does a lot of this type of research. But how much time would you say companies would save by using Smoke Ladder? Clay Ostrom  50:24 It’s a good question. I feel like I’m starting to get some feedback around that with from our users, but I mean, for me personally, I would typically spend an hour or two just to get kind of up to speed initially, with a brand and kind of look at some of their competitors. If I’m doing a deep dive, though, if I’m actually doing some of the deeper research work, it could be several hours per client. So I don’t know. On a given week, it might depend on how many clients you’re talking to. Could be anywhere from a few hours to 10 hours or more, depending on how much work you’re doing. But, yeah, I think it’s a decent amount. Christian Klepp  51:07 Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, this definitely does look like a time saver. Here comes my favorite question, which you’re gonna look at me like, Okay, I gotta, I gotta. Clay Ostrom  51:17 Now bring it on. Let’s go. Christian Klepp  51:22 Folks that are not familiar with Smoke Ladder are gonna look at this, um, and before they actually, um, take it upon themselves to, like, watch, hopefully, watch this video on our channel. Um, they’re gonna look at that and ask themselves, Well, what is it that Smoke Ladder does that? You know that other AI couldn’t do, right, like, so I guess what I’m trying to say is, like, Okay, why would they use? How does the platform differ from something like ChatGPT, Perplexity or Claude, right? To run a brand analysis? Clay Ostrom  52:00 Yeah, no, I think it’s a great question. I think it’s sort of the it’s going to be the eternal AI question for every product that has an AI component. And I would say to me, it’s three things. So one is the data, which we talked about, and I didn’t show you this earlier, but there is a search capability in here to go through our full archive of all the brands we’ve analyzed, and again, we’ve analyzed over 6000 brands. So the data piece is really important here, because it means we’re not just giving you insights and analysis based on the brand that you’re looking at now, but we can compare and contrast against all the other brands that we’ve looked at in the space, and that’s something that you’re not going to get by just using some off the shelf standard LLM  (Large Language Model) and doing some, you know, some quick prompts with that. The next one, I think, to me that’s important is it’s the point of view of the product and the brand. Like I said, this is built off of 10 plus years of doing positioning and messaging work in the space. So you’re getting to tap into that expertise and that approach of how we do things and building frameworks that make this work easier and more productive that you wouldn’t get, or you wouldn’t know, just on your own. And then the last one, the last point, which is sort of the kind of like the generic software answer, is you get a visual interface for this stuff. It’s the difference between using QuickBooks versus a spreadsheet. You can do a lot of the same stuff that you do in QuickBooks and a spreadsheet, but wouldn’t you rather have a nice interface and some easy buttons to click that make your job way, way easier and do a lot of the work for you and also be able to present it in a way that’s digestible and something you could share with clients? So the visual component in the UI is sort of that last piece. Christian Klepp  54:01 Absolutely. I mean, it’s almost like UX and UI one on one. That’s, that’s pretty much like a big part of, I think what it is you’re trying to build here, right? Clay Ostrom  54:13 Yeah, exactly. It’s just it’s making all of those things that you might do in an LLM just way, way easier. You know, you basically come in, put in your URL and click a button, and you’re getting access to all the data and all the insights and all this stuff so. Christian Klepp  54:29 Absolutely, absolutely okay. And as we wrap this up, this has been a fantastic conversation, by the way, how can the audience start using Smoke Ladder, and how can they get in touch with you if they have questions, and hopefully good questions. Clay Ostrom  54:47 Yeah, so you can, if you go to https://smokeladder.com/ you can, you can try it out. Like I said, you can basically go to the homepage, put in a URL and get started. You don’t even have to create an account to do the initial analysis. But you can create FREE account. You can dig in and see, you know, play around with all the features, and if you use it more, you know, we give you a little bit of a trial period. And if you use it beyond that, then you can pay and continue to use it, but, but you can get a really good flavor of it for free. Christian Klepp  55:16 Fantastic, fantastic. Oh, last question, because, you know, it’s looking me right in the face now, industry categories. How many? How many categories can be analyzed on the platform? Clay Ostrom  55:26 Yeah, yeah. So right now, we have 23 categories in the system currently, which sounds like a lot, but when you start to dig into especially B2B, it’s we will be evolving that and continuing to add more, but currently, there’s 23 different categories of businesses in there. Christian Klepp  55:46 All right, fantastic, fantastic. Clay, man. This has been so awesome. Thank you so much for your time and for your patience and walking us through this, this incredible platform that you’ve built and continue to build. And you know, I’m excited to continue using this as it evolves. Clay Ostrom  56:06 Thank you. Yeah, no. Thanks so much. And you know, if anybody, you know, anybody who tries it out, tests it out, please feel free to reach out. We have, you know, contact info on there. You can also hit me up on LinkedIn. I spend a lot of time there, but I would love feedback, love getting notes, love hearing what’s working, what’s not, all those things. So yeah, anytime I’m always open. Christian Klepp  56:30 All right, fantastic. Once again, Clay, thanks for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Clay Ostrom  56:36 Thanks so much. Talk to you soon. Christian Klepp  56:37 All right. Bye for now.

On this episode, I breakdown eight little-known mobile apps that each generate around $50,000+ per month and explain why they work. I walk through specific examples—from AI video generators and Bible note-takers to vinyl pricing tools and AI English tutors—then explain the common patterns behind their success. The second half of the episode is devoted to six clear frameworks for spotting high-potential niches and designing simple, sticky mobile apps around them. I end the episode with a batch of extra startup ideas built on high-intent inputs like photos, videos, and scans so listeners can “vibe code” their own profitable apps in 2026. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 02:02 – App 1: Flashloop: AI Video Generator for Viral Character Clips 03:26 – App 2: Bible Note-Taker & Prayer Recorder for Churchgoers 06:35 – App 3: AI Home Decor Interior Design App and Visualization Pain 08:48 – App 4: Moji Lab: Emoji/Sticker Packs and Expression as a Business 11:43 – App 5: Vinyl Snap: Scanning Vinyl Records for Accurate Pricing 13:51 – App 6: Genora AI: Bundling Multiple LLMs into One Assistant 16:45 – App 7: Logo Maker: AI Generated Logos 18:57 – App 8: Menu Fit: Healthy Eating Recommendations at Any Restaurant 20:44 – App 9: LangLearn: Personal AI English Tutor and Duolingo Comparison 22:37 – App 10: Zozo Fit 3D Body Scanner: Tracking Body Change, Not the Scale 25:04 – The “ 50K MRR App Framework” 31:30 – Bonus Startup Ideas Key Points Profitable mobile apps often do one high-intent, recurring job for a specific identity-based group, then charge a subscription around that behavior. Many breakout apps turn photos, videos, or scans (high-signal inputs) into premium insights like valuations, design plans, or tailored recommendations. Simple, one-screen interfaces with clear before/after transformations make these AI-powered tools feel approachable and addictive to use. The “50K MRR App Framework” combines spending power, repeating problems, visual inputs, accuracy needs, and bad existing tools to guide idea selection. New app ideas can be generated by pairing these frameworks with underserved niches like golf swings, pet health, used cars, or RV layouts. Numbered Section Summaries Why Mobile Apps Are Printing Money in 2026 The host opens by arguing that now is an incredible time to build mobile apps, pointing to new apps that have appeared “out of nowhere” and reached $50K+ per month. He cites a tweet listing 10 such apps launched in the last 180 days and sets the goal of reverse engineering what makes them work so listeners can apply the patterns to their own ideas. The 50K MRR App Framework The “50K MRR App Framework”: find a group that (1) spends money, (2) has a repeating problem, (3) uses photos/videos as inputs, (4) cares deeply about accuracy, and (5) suffers from bad existing tools. He walks through how vinyl collectors fit every criterion and stresses that while the framework is simple, execution still requires great UX, clean UI, and the right niche. The goal is to make idea selection easier by checking all five boxes before committing to an app. Six Supporting Frameworks for Designing Hit Apps I expands into six additional frameworks: start with a “nerve” (identity, urgency, stakes, repetition); solve one job that always must be done; build around a single high-intent input (photo, address, object); use AI to unlock a premium insight (price, diagnosis, summary, design plan); wrap it in a simple, desirable interface (one screen, one button, one transformation); and create a recurring behavior loop that pulls users back daily or weekly. He summarizes these in a conceptual pipeline: high-intent input → AI premium insight → simple interface → recurring loop → $50K MRR. The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ The Vibe Marketer - Resources for people into vibe marketing/marketing with AI: thevibemarketer.com Startup Empire - get your free builders toolkit to build cashflowing business - https://startup-ideas-pod.link/startup-empire-toolkit Become a member - https://startup-ideas-pod.link/startup-empire FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/

Ben Toner once again joins Keith Parsons to explain the new WLAN-Pi App. Originally built to control the WLAN-Pi Go, the app now works with all WLAN-Pi models and consolidates controls previously spread across the web UI and APIs. They then dive deeper into the method of connectivity for the app and the functionalities it... Read more »

On this episode I sit down with indie app builder and designer Chris ****Raroque to walk through his real AI coding workflow. Chris explains how he ships a portfolio of productivity apps doing thousands in MRR by pairing Claude Code and Cursor instead of picking just one tool. He live-demos “vibe coding” an iOS animation, then compares how Claude Code and Cursor's plan mode tackle the same task. The episode closes with concrete tips on plan mode, MCP servers, AI code review, dictation, and deep research so solo devs can build bigger apps than they could alone. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro 03:04 – Which Tools & Models to Use 09:16 – Thoughts on the Vibe Coding Mobile App Landscape 11:14 – Live demo: prompting Claude Code to build an iOS “AI searching” animation 18:07 – Live demo: prompting Cursor with same task 21:02 – Chris's Best Tips for Vibe Coders Key Points You don't have to pick one IDE copilot: Chris actively switches between Claude Code and Cursor because they have different strengths. For very complex bug-hunting, he prefers Cursor with plan mode; for big-picture app architecture, he leans on Claude Code with Opus. Non-developers should start on higher-level “vibe coding” platforms like Create Anything for mobile apps before graduating to Claude/Cursor. Plan mode plus detailed, spoken prompts dramatically improves code quality, especially for UI and animation work. MCP servers and AI code review bots let solo developers safely set up infra, enforce security, and catch bugs they'd otherwise miss. Claude's deep research is a powerful way to choose the right patterns and libraries before handing implementation back to Claude Code or Cursor. The #1 tool to find startup ideas/trends - https://www.ideabrowser.com LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ The Vibe Marketer - Resources for people into vibe marketing/marketing with AI: thevibemarketer.com Startup Empire - get your free builders toolkit to build cashflowing business - https://startup-ideas-pod.link/startup-empire-toolkit Become a member - https://startup-ideas-pod.link/startup-empire FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND CHRIS ON SOCIAL Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@raroque X/Twitter: https://x.com/raroque Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chris.raroque/

Join us as James and Frank delve into the fascinating world of AI-driven UI design with Gemini 3.0, exploring its creative capabilities and potential to revolutionize aesthetics. Discover the latest AI model advancements, including GPT-5.1 and Codex, and gain insights into real-time trace debugging and distributed programming. Plus, we tackle the evolving landscape of Integrated Development Environments, AI tool integrations in Visual Studio Code, and cutting-edge developments in robotics and virtual reality. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of AI, design, and technology. Follow Us Frank: Twitter, Blog, GitHub James: Twitter, Blog, GitHub Merge Conflict: Twitter, Facebook, Website, Chat on Discord Music : Amethyst Seer - Citrine by Adventureface ⭐⭐ Review Us (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/merge-conflict/id1133064277?mt=2&ls=1) ⭐⭐ Machine transcription available on http://mergeconflict.fm