Podcast appearances and mentions of Bill Gurley

Passion doesn't drive work — fascination does, says venture capitalist and author Bill Gurley. Drawing on years of research into the lives of high achievers, he shows why obsessive, lifelong learning is the real engine of career excellence. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Bill Gurley spent years on Wall Street, built his career as a partner at Benchmark, worked through Uber's hypergrowth era, and now serves on the board of the Santa Fe Institute, where he studies complexity and systems thinking. In this episode, Bill shares the mental models he returns to most, including systems thinking, second- and third-order effects, and the importance of understanding both the bedrock of your field and the bleeding edge. He explains what separates great founders, why storytelling and product instincts matter, how he uses AI across different models, and what he sees coming in open source, China, stablecoins, tokenization, payments, and venture capital.  ------ Timestamps: (00:00) Key Mental Models (02:02) Investing Journey and Key Players (05:21) Knowing the Bedrock of the Industry (08:50) Obsessive Learning in Founders (10:04) The Silent Edge (11:44) Surprising AI Use (13:13) The Future of AI Models (14:17) Global AI Regulation (18:12) Impacts of AI on Investing (19:53) Are There Limitations on Training AI Models? (23:04) Would You Sit in the Back Seat While Your Tesla Drives? (24:15) Non-Consensus Opinions (24:53) Are We Overfunding this Buildout? (29:40) The Role of Retail Investors and Tokenization (34:26) What is a Stablecoin? (37:58) Competitive Mode: Visa and Mastercard (39:55) AI and Debt Analysis (45:05) The Craft of Storytelling and Writing (48:07) Founder Advantage: Product Instinct (50:12) Real World Lessons from Working With Uber (52:10) Inside Benchmark's Success (59:42) What is Success for You? ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it's completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ Follow Bill Gurley LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/ X: https://x.com/bgurley?lang=en Check out Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love ------ Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: +CoinShares: Delivering Reason to Digital Asset Investing. ⁠https://coinshares.com/⁠ +Granola AI, The AI notepad for people in back-to-back meetings: https://www.granola.ai/shane Check out the Granola Notes +HeyGen is a message-first AI video platform that helps people and AI agents turn ideas into professional video in minutes. Try for free at https://www.heygen.com/ +LMNT: My go-to zero sugar electrolytes — get a free LMNT Sample Pack here: DrinkLMNT.com/TKP Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(0:00) Bill Gurley joins the show! (6:00) Making yourself valuable in the age of AI, first class of "AI Natives" (17:37) Reacting to Pope Leo's AI encyclical: Who guards the guardians? (26:54) Anthropic's Digital God: Do they believe they are creating a superior species? (38:32) AI sovereignty, the next era of privacy, open-source crackdown coming? (59:56) The Great AI Jobs Debate: Dario and Sam Altman flip their rhetoric, Goldman CEO says no AI job apocalypse Follow Bill Gurley: https://x.com/bgurley Apply for Summit 2026: https://allin.com/events Follow the besties: https://x.com/chamath https://x.com/Jason https://x.com/DavidSacks https://x.com/friedberg Follow on X: https://x.com/theallinpod Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theallinpod Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://x.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://x.com/TheZachEffect Referenced in the show: https://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiv/en/encyclicals/documents/20260515-magnifica-humanitas.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORFrdYSvzuw https://rdad.org https://www-cdn.anthropic.com/9214f02e82c4489fb6cf45441d448a1ecd1a3aca/claudes-constitution.pdf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GaKJ4Fp2x4 https://allpoetry.com/All-Watched-Over-By-Machines-Of-Loving-Grace https://darioamodei.com/essay/machines-of-loving-grace https://x.com/chamath/status/2059850242779136031 https://x.com/vivekgaripalli/status/2059651390784344491 https://x.com/edzitron/status/2059122774401311095 https://p3institute.substack.com/p/from-open-source-software-to-open https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/the-briefing/anthropic-likely-generating-least-35-revenue-openai https://www.theverge.com/tech/930447/microsoft-claude-code-discontinued-notepad https://x.com/Polymarket/status/2060034216906068131 https://x.com/savipww/status/2060070450785305030 https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/22/opinion/ai-job-crisis-goldman-sachs.html https://fortune.com/2026/05/26/sam-altman-dario-amodei-walking-back-ai-jobs-apocalypse-prophecies-ipo https://fortune.com/2026/05/05/dario-amodei-jevons-paradox-will-ai-wipe-out-white-collar-jobs https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/jack-dorseys-block-cuts-4000-jobs-critics-claim/503108

Take the 2026 AI Engineering Survey and get >$2k in credits and AIE WF tickets!On the product side, everyone is getting Computer - Perplexity, Manus, Cursor, and so on. Meanwhile on the research side, agentic evals like TerminalBench and GDPVal are also assuming computer (Harbor). On both ends, the consolidating LLM OS stack has become a standard toolkit, and Daytona is one of a small set of AI Infra companies that are booming because of it.“The end of localhost” has been Ivan Burazin's obsession for more than a decade.Something that is all too familiar…Long before agents became the default way people talked about software development, Ivan was already chasing the idea that development should not depend on a fragile local machine. CodeAnywhere, one of the first browser-based IDEs, was an early attempt at that future: move the development environment into the cloud, make setup reproducible, and free developers from the endless “works on my machine” tax.The thesis was directionally right, but the market wasn't ready yet.However, agents changed that. They do not care about a laptop, desk setup, or favorite editor. They need a computer they can access through an API: something stateful enough to keep working, fast enough to spin up instantly, flexible enough to resize, isolated enough to be safe, and composable enough to run the messy real-world workflows that real software engineering actually requires.Daytona isn't just selling “sandboxes” in the narrow code-execution sense. It is the latest version of Ivan's original localhost thesis.In this episode, Daytona's CEO joins swyx to explain why AI agents need more than code execution boxes: they need composable computers, stateful sandboxes, instant startup, dynamic resources, and infrastructure that can survive workloads going from zero to 100,000 CPUs.We go deep on the new agent compute market: Daytona's hard pivot from human dev environments to AI sandboxes, the New Year's Eve MVP that customers begged for, why Daytona runs on bare metal with its own scheduler, how one customer runs almost 850,000 sandboxes a day, and why RL/eval workloads went from 0% to roughly 50% of usage in just months. Ivan also explains why agents need Windows and macOS machines, why CLI may matter more than MCP, why Kubernetes is painful for this workload, and why the future AI cloud may look more like Stripe than AWS.We discuss:* How Daytona grew out of CodeAnywhere, Shift, and the “end of localhost” thesis* Why Daytona pivoted from human dev environments to AI sandboxes* Why agents need composable computers instead of disposable code execution boxes* The New Year's Eve MVP that customers chased API keys for* Why Daytona chose bare metal, stateful snapshots, and its own scheduler* How Daytona spins up one sandbox in ~60ms and 50,000 sandboxes in ~75 seconds* Why Daytona's biggest customer runs ~850,000 sandboxes a day* How RL/eval workloads create zero-to-100,000 CPU spikes* Why RL workloads went from 0% to roughly 50% of Daytona usage* Why customers compare Daytona against EKS/GKS and say they're “never going back”* Why every AI agent may need a computer, including Windows and macOS environments* The Apple licensing constraints that make macOS sandboxes hard* Why CLI gives agents more power than MCP* How open source helps agents integrate Daytona* Why agent-generated PRs may break today's CI/CD assumptions* Why AI SaaS companies reselling tokens may face a cold shower* Why the AI cloud may look more like Stripe than AWSIvan Burazin* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanburazin* X: https://x.com/ivanburazinDaytona* Website: https://www.daytona.io* X: https://x.com/daytonaioTimestamps* 00:00:00 Hook* 00:01:12 Introduction* 00:03:15 CodeAnywhere, Shift, and the end of localhost* 00:05:58 What Daytona is: composable computers for AI agents* 00:08:07 The pivot from dev environments to AI sandboxes* 00:10:17 The New Year's Eve MVP and customers begging for API keys* 00:12:56 Bare metal, stateful sandboxes, and Daytona's scheduler* 00:17:28 60ms startup, 50,000 sandboxes, and 850K daily runs* 00:21:53 Spiky RL/eval workloads and the new agent infra problem* 00:28:12 RL workloads, Kubernetes pain, and dynamic resizing* 00:33:31 Why every AI agent needs a computer* 00:38:48 macOS sandboxes and Apple's licensing problem* 00:44:28 Why CLI may matter more than MCP* 00:48:11 Open source, GitHub stars, and agent integration* 00:53:11 Git, CI/CD, and agent collaboration bottlenecks* 00:58:15 Founder life and building a 25-person infra company* 01:02:44 AI SaaS, token resale, and API-first business models* 01:06:10 GPU sandboxes, data centers, and compute growth* 01:09:48 Why the AI cloud may look more like Stripe than AWS* 01:11:26 Closing thoughtsTranscriptIntroduction: Daytona, CodeAnywhere, and the End of LocalhostSwyx [00:00:02]: Okay, we're in the studio with Ivan Burazin, CEO of Daytona. Welcome.Ivan [00:00:07]: Thanks for having me, man.Swyx [00:00:08]: Ivan, you and I go back.Ivan [00:00:10]: Way back.Swyx [00:00:11]: How I don't even know how, you found, did you reach out or, for Shift.Ivan [00:00:17]: I reached out to you. The reason was you - we were just - we were thinking about I was one of the co-founders of CodeAnywhere, the first browser-based IDE, and so we were thinking a long time of, localhost should die. And you had this article.Swyx [00:00:29]: End of localhost.Ivan [00:00:30]: Then I reached out to you because of that, and then we talked, and I was actually at a different job and learning about I was the head of, developer experience, and you were quite well-versed in that, and I actually reached out to you, among other people, how do we go about that? What are the key things and whatnot at this point in time? And you were nice enough to take the call, and I remember I was late on your call with you.Swyx [00:00:51]: I don't remember.Ivan [00:00:52]: I remember because I was with my then I'm thinking of a girlfriend or wife at that point in time, I'm not sure. It's the same person, so that's great, and I was late ‘cause we were, in, Italy on, vacation, and then I was late for something. I felt so bad, and you were so nice to be, good about.Swyx [00:01:10]: The reason I'm nice is because I'm also late to other people, so it's like, who's, who's without sin here, yeah, so I have to, for those who don't know, InfoBip Shift, there's this whole thing that, you did in the past, and, and that was basically one of the inspirations for me starting AI Engineer, which is like, I have to thank you for giving me that push to be like, “Oh, you can, you can build and sell conferences?”Ivan [00:01:34]: I remember you asked you asked me at the beginning to give me advisory shares, and I was so focused on what we were doing, I said no, and I should've took the advisory shares. So I'm sorry, dude. But anyway.Swyx [00:01:43]: We're not, we're not venture backed.Ivan [00:01:44]: No, it doesn't matter.Swyx [00:01:45]: It's Yeah, anyway, so I think what's impressive about you is that CodeAnywhere is the thing that you've been trying to build, and, you kind of put it on hold and then came back after InfoBip. Just give us the story, do you - the story and the origin story, going into Daytona.From CodeAnywhere and Shift to DaytonaIvan [00:02:05]: Sure. Like, really way back, me and my co-founder have been together. I say this, I've said this multiple times, it's like we were married and divorced and married. Some people actually ask me is my co-founder my partner. they thought it literally. It's not literally, but we have done multiple companies together, and to your point, we had this shift where we went from the CodeAnywhere to the conference called Shift, and then back to, Daytona. We originally started stacking servers, doing like virtualization in the early 2000s and, routers and doing basically all these things, at a foundational level, and that was a services company which we sold to focus on what my co-founder actually invented, which was the very first browser-based IDE, right, I say the first. Before us was actually Heroku. They did it for a very short time until they became Heroku. But outside of them, we were the only one, and it was called.Swyx [00:02:55]: There was Cloud9.Ivan [00:02:57]: Cloud9 came out slightly after us. There was Replit, which came out when we stopped doing it, Replit came out, and they have been successful since then, which is great. There was Nitrous.io. There was quite a few that existed at the time, but it was like too early. But the interesting part is that we, at that point in time, because there was no VS Code, there was no Kubernetes, and Docker had just started when we Or I'm not sure if it was even public at that point in time. And so we had to build everything to the whole stack ourselves and that was the key learning that we brought into and that we've been using in Daytona today. So it was super early. There's about 3 million people used CodeAnywhere. It was slightly, it was angel-backed more than venture-backed. We ended up paying everyone back because it didn't have that sort of scale. But, three years ago, we started something similar with Daytona, which is not what we are today, but it was automating dev environments for human engineers, the basically the underlying stack of CodeAnywhere. And then we did a hard pivot last January to sandboxes. And so here we are.Swyx [00:04:01]: Historic pivot, yeah, and, it's one of those things where, I had independently invested in CodeAnywhere, but also in E2B, and then both of you pivoted into the same thing, and I'm like, “F**k.”Ivan [00:04:12]: You invested, you invested in Daytona. You invested in Daytona. But you were the first If we had not got your check, we wouldn't have done it.Swyx [00:04:18]: No way.Ivan [00:04:19]: No, it was like, “We have to get him on board first,” and you were that kicker that we, that got us off the ground.Swyx [00:04:23]: No, because you were putting me on your pitch deck, man. I was like, “Man, this is like a good trip if I don't invest.”Ivan [00:04:29]: That's because it was your quote. It's like we.Swyx [00:04:30]: Yeah. It's the end of localhost.Ivan [00:04:31]: Did a bunch of research about end of localhost and who was interested in that,.Swyx [00:04:34]: No, that's like, I put, I wrote that blog post, and every single company in that field reached out to me, and then every VC who was receiving those pitches then also had to call me and, talk it, talk through it with me.Ivan [00:04:47]: It's finally happening though.Swyx [00:04:48]: It was really super interesting.Ivan [00:04:48]: It's finally happening.Swyx [00:04:49]: It's finally happening.Ivan [00:04:49]: Yeah, it's finally.Swyx [00:04:49]: It's finally happening, with maybe sort of non-human users. Yeah, so what is Daytona today? Let's get like a quick description. I'm wearing the shirt.What Daytona Is Today: Composable Computers for AI AgentsIvan [00:04:58]: You're wearing the shirt. Yes,.Swyx [00:04:59]: It says, I think your branding is very good. Like, it's very consistent. It runs AI code. Like, it cannot be simpler.Ivan [00:05:05]: Exactly, but we're gonna probably have to change that.Swyx [00:05:07]: Oh, s**t.Ivan [00:05:07]: It's also a subset of what we do. Unfortunately, we really love this, Run AI Code is super simple. People interpret it different ways. I think we've given out 5,000, 6,000 of these shirts. People wear them with pride because it doesn't really market about us.Swyx [00:05:21]: Yeah, Daytona's on the back.Ivan [00:05:22]: It markets the back. It markets to the person itself, so I think we did a really good job on that one. But it is also a subset of what we do, because people, when they think about Run AI Code, they just think about these small, let's call it isolates, code execution boxes that, you send some code, you get an output. Whereas what Daytona is today is essentially composable computers for AI agents. It is, the market calls them sandboxes which can be misleading.Swyx [00:05:44]: All these things. All these things on.Ivan [00:05:45]: Yeah, exactly, ‘cause it can be misleading ‘cause people usually think about sandboxes as a demo or a test environment versus a production-grade environment. But what Daytona does, if you think of the laptop that you have in front of you or the computer that's over there, or, my wife is an architect, so she has like a Windows with a 3D graphics card inside to do 3D rendering. Like, as humans, we have different computers or different compositions of computers. And our belief is strongly that agents today and going forward will need all these different compositions of computers to do different types of tasks. And so we offer that basically through an API.Swyx [00:06:19]: Yeah, to give people - I'm trying to sort of front-load all the aha moments or the wow moments so that people can, stay engaged and click like and subscribe. the market is exploding, right? Like, you have been reporting 74% month-on-month growth, and it also, it's just been growing for a while. Like, it's been going like this. And every single - It's not just you guys. It's every single.Ivan [00:06:41]: Everyone, yeah.Swyx [00:06:42]: Sort of, compute provider. I don't know if you agree with me saying compute provider or not.Ivan [00:06:48]: It's fine.Swyx [00:06:48]: Yeah. So like organically PLG-driven growth, but also enterprise is doing super well, I think I wanna rewind to January of last year when you did the pivot. Like, so you obviously called this market early, and you were positioned for it, and you are now one of the market leaders. But what was the insight that made you do the pivot?The Pivot: From Human Dev Environments to Agent SandboxesIvan [00:07:06]: The insight that made us do this pivot is the quarter before that, so end of 2024, when we had - Basically, we did a demo with - I don't I think we discussed this as well, Devin was not public. You actually gave me access to Devin at that time. So Devin.Swyx [00:07:25]: I did?Ivan [00:07:26]: Yeah, you gave me access.Swyx [00:07:26]: I don't think I was supposed.Ivan [00:07:27]: Yeah, exactly.Swyx [00:07:28]: Yeah, I.Ivan [00:07:28]: So it doesn't matter. You.Swyx [00:07:29]: Yeah. I gave like three friends access.Ivan [00:07:31]: Yeah, or it was a call and you showed it to me. It doesn't matter. but OpenDevin was available, which is now called OpenHands. And so we're like, “Oh, this seems to be a thing. This is not public. Let's take our for human automation of dev environments and take, OpenDevin and launch that as a SaaS.” And we did that. Not very many people signed up and used it, but a lot of people reached out that were building agents, and they were like, “Hey, my agent needs a compute sandbox runtime,” whatever you wanna call it. I forgot what it was called at that point. And then we were like, “Oh, amazing. This is a new market. Here is our infrastructure. Here's our product, and go.” And what we found really fast, soon, was that people did not like what we had built. It didn't work. And I remember talking to people at the beginning when we're doing this, the sandbox we're building for agents. People were like, “Oh, why is it different? It's the same thing. We have like EC2, we have VMs, we have all these things.” But we saw that everyone we gave it to, it was like 20, 30 people, they all said, “No.” Like, “This is not what we need. This sort of breaks.” And basically, me and my co-founder not knowing a lot about - ‘cause we're infra people. We're not AI people. So I basically took it upon myself to like watch every single podcast that exists, including all of, all of these and all that, and sort of get up to date, read all the blogs, like get, understand what's going on.Swyx [00:08:45]: Do you wanna shout out who else was useful, just in case people are also looking.Ivan [00:08:49]: Generally we -, I looked at There's a few of podcast, different segments and different types. So there's you guys, No Priors, Bill Gurley's was great while.Swyx [00:09:04]: VG2, yeah.Ivan [00:09:05]: Yeah, while it was around. So there's a few. 20VC is interesting from a different dynamic, and some are different dynamic. But there was, also Red Points.Swyx [00:09:14]: We're not really about the compute market.Ivan [00:09:15]: It was also already - Sorry?Swyx [00:09:16]: You're, you want - You're looking at the agent infra market.Ivan [00:09:19]: I was looking at the agent market and the AI market in general and sort of understanding who are the players, what the perception, and how that goes. And like obviously you complement this with like going to conferences, going to events, going to meetups, reading white papers, like doing all the things that you have to do to understand what's happening. And so when we figured, when we sort of had an idea of what we had to build, literally over the New Year's Eve, literally on New Year's Eve, I half vibe coded the first MVP, first minimal viable product of what Daytona is today. And I went to sleep at like 3:00 AM or something like that. I was doing - I just put my like baby daughter and wife to sleep and, Happy New Year's, and go back to just, doing this. And I sent it to my co-founder, my CTO, and he saw it in the morning. He's like, “This is absolute garbage.” “Do not show this to anybody at all, but the idea is good.” And so he took two weeks, and he rebuilt it.Swyx [00:10:09]: Did it like look like that? Listen, I - It was rough idea.Ivan [00:10:12]: Oh, not even, not even close. Like it was it was way worse. But it was like a very - It was a simplistic view of what it should be. Like, it worked, but it was not ideal. And so he went, we went down the whole, which is his job as CTO, to go, and he came back with this version. We then called all the people that had said like, “This is garbage,” a quarter ago. And we set up these calls, and we gave it to - We just demoed it to everyone. And all the calls went long, every single one. They were 15-minute calls, and they all went to like 25, 30 minutes or whatnot. And everyone said, “We need, we want access.” There was no login, just an API key, ‘cause it was just a beta or an alpha. And they said, “Oh, we want access.” And we're like, “Sure, yeah. Okay, thank you very much.” But after like the next day, if we'd not send it, every single one, like every call that we did, everyone came back, “Where is my API key?” Like everyone wanted it. We're like, “S**t.” Like this is it. Like I've never felt So one, the understanding to your point was like most people thought it was the same infrastructure for humans and agents. We understood a quarter ago it's not. We just didn't know what was the right primitive. And then when we came, and we can talk about what that is, and we gave it to these people, I've never seen, I've never experienced - I've done multiple companies in my life. I've never experienced this, that people literally call you if you do not give them access. Like they want access right now. And so it's like, okay, they don't want this. the thing that they want doesn't seem to exist, or they have not found it, and they really want what we want. And then when we understood that we're onto something, and then when you think about the size of the market, like the market for human engineers and enterprise is a very large market, so think GitLab or whatnot. But the market for every single agent that will exist ever in the future is just like, what is that market? How big is that? And we're like, “We are all in on this.” And so that is where we made sort of the cut between the old product and the new one.Bare Metal, Stateful Sandboxes, and the Lambda + EC2 ModelSwyx [00:12:02]: Yeah. But it wasn't composable at the time?Ivan [00:12:05]: It was very - It was basically just a Linux box that you could change, that you could define number of CPUs, disk, and RAM. Like that is what you could do, but you couldn't have multiple operating systems, you couldn't resize it on the fly, you couldn't add a GPU, you couldn't do like all the things. It was just the, just the first sort of variation of that, yeah.Swyx [00:12:22]: Was it bare metal from the start?Ivan [00:12:24]: It was bare metal from the start. And so the interesting thing that we thought about right away, so our.Swyx [00:12:29]: Which, give people the background, what is the normal path?Ivan [00:12:32]: Yeah, so, basically most providers run this on top of VMs. And also.Swyx [00:12:37]: Firecracker.Ivan [00:12:38]: Yeah, they run on Firecracker and VM. And so we also fire - We can get - We have multiple isolation layers and we can do that. But the common way to do it is that they, one, that the state of the machine, or the hard disk is not part of the sandbox itself. And the other thing is they're not meant to last forever. So most of them are preemptible, like they can There's a time that they can live. And so our thought was when we were going into this is, agents will be like humans in the sense of you don't want your laptop to be shut down until you're done with work. Like, and you want to close the lid and open the lid, it's the same state. So you - Agents would want that, like the pause and come back. They want those two things. But also agents really want speed, right? Can they get it? So when we thought about it's like we need something insanely fast, how to make it fast, how to make it long-running, and stateful. And so those two things, it's like combining a Lambda and an EC2, right? Those two things together. And so we didn't have an idea how others did it, ‘cause we didn't know too that there was a market around this. It was more like, okay, this is what we need, what they need. And we looked at Kubernetes, it wasn't wasn't good enough for that. We looked at Nomad, it didn't enable that. And so our history in rewriting our own scheduler at CodeAnywhere is basically what my CTO came up with. Like, he's like, “Oh, the learnings from there,” and he brought it. And the funny thing is, our third co-founder, when he saw it, he's like, “Dude, what is this? This is like 2008.” Like, we went back in time, and he's like, “Exactly.” And so the reason why Daytona is like super fast, and you see this on benchmarks, is we essentially, we run on bare metal. We have our own scheduler, we use the underlying, disk, CPU, and RAM of the underlying machine, which means your IOPS are insanely fast because there's no, there's no network between an EBS or something like that. But also the snapshot, the point in time, the templates, are also preloaded on the bare metal machines. So when you fire off a sandbox from a template or a snapshot, you're essentially directed to the bare metal machine where that snapshot is based on that NVMe drive, and then it literally just turns on that machine, and it's local. There's no network latency, anything on there. And so that is sort of the specificities that we, when we're thinking from first principles, what a computer would look like for an agent, that is what we came up with, and that's what we created.Benchmarks, 60ms Startup, and 50,000 SandboxesSwyx [00:15:02]: Yeah. I should maybe, I don't know if you endorse this, but there's someone that does compute SDK, you guys do very well on there, with like the TTI, right? I. is this a, is this a is this a relevant benchmark for you guys? I don't know.Ivan [00:15:16]: I don't know, and it changes every day. So today RKL is.Swyx [00:15:18]: I don't know what RKL is. Never heard of it.Ivan [00:15:20]: Yeah. RK, yeah, so it is there.Swyx [00:15:22]: You are, at least a third of the next tier of performance, and then, there's a lot of other better-known names that are very slow to start.Ivan [00:15:31]: Yeah. We've been the number one by far for a long time, and now there's different, there's different definitions also of sandboxes, different isolation patterns, different other things. So RKL runs it literally on the S3, the data, so it's very different, and they spin up a sandbox, spin up a container for that, so it's a different type of thing. So the definition of a sandbox is something that we can all, we all need to get along with. But yeah, we're insanely fast on getting these things, up and running. And so you can see even there that it's a zero point 0.10 to 0.11, so.Swyx [00:16:03]: Close enough. Yeah. what else do you need, right?Ivan [00:16:05]: Yeah. So the benchmarks itself, so, in this, in I don't think the benchmarks equate to market ownership or revenue or anything like that. and I've seen this with multiple benchmarks, not just in sandboxes, but in general benchmarks around.Swyx [00:16:20]: It's table stakes. It's just like.Ivan [00:16:21]: Exactly. But it doesn't hurt.Swyx [00:16:22]: Just roughly check.Ivan [00:16:22]: Like you definitely have to be up there and you have to be competing so that people know that, oh, this is definitely one of the top. Because this is only one dimension of what customers look for. There's other things like how many can you spin up consecutively? There's a feature set, there's support, there's like all different things that people look at, but you definitely have to be there, on the benchmarks.Swyx [00:16:40]: How many people do people spin up consecutively?Ivan [00:16:43]: So we have.Swyx [00:16:43]: Or concurrently, is the Concurrency, right?Ivan [00:16:45]: There's three metrics that we look at. And so one is like time to spin up one, and so our time to spin up one is 60 milliseconds with network latency. So request, spin up, reply, 60, the whole thing, 60 milliseconds. That is one. But if you wanna spin up 50,000 at once, we are now at about 75 seconds. So it takes about 75 seconds to spin up concurrently 50,000. Some others, there's public data around this, like take 2,000 seconds, which is 30 minutes. Like there's different variations of that. And then there is the so it is speed of one, speed of like multiple, and then how many can you consistently have up and running. And so we basically have right now no limit to how much we can add because we basically own our own metal. But the biggest customer of ours does like about 850,000 every single day is sort of where they're, where they're just shy of a million every single day that they're running, we do have a request for half a million concurrent, which is literally half a million CPUs somewhere running. So that's an interesting.Swyx [00:17:44]: They pay by like vCPU seconds.Ivan [00:17:47]: By seconds, yeah.Swyx [00:17:47]: Or whatever. Yeah. Okay, and so and then, and the other thing is, the sleeping and the resuming, ‘cause it's all the stateful resumption of all these things, how, what kind of workload are people putting through this, right? Like how is it Do we measure by gigabytes in memory, gigabytes in storage? I don't In like network attached storage. I, what are the costly ones of, out of all these features?Workload Economics: CPU, RAM, Network, and StorageIvan [00:18:15]: The most expensive thing are CPU.Swyx [00:18:18]: Okay. Yeah, of course.Ivan [00:18:18]: The second one, yeah Then it's RAM, then it's disk. We actually don't charge.Swyx [00:18:22]: Which is snapshotting, right?Ivan [00:18:23]: No, it's actually the, snapshotting's part of it, but basically the size of your hard disk, of your machine. So do you have 10 gigabytes, do you have 20, do you have 50, do you have whatever? And then the transference of that. Right now, currently we don't charge for, network at all at Polychron.Swyx [00:18:37]: Oh, you gotta, yeah, you gotta fix.Ivan [00:18:38]: Yeah. It is very much a it's a larger and larger part of our bill, so we're working around, that part there. Obviously, that is the least, expensive, so the hard disk is the least expensive, so it's basically CPU, RAM, for us network, ‘cause we don't charge the customer, and then hard disk, is how it's split up. But there's also different types of workloads, so we basically split it up into two types of workloads in Daytona. One is what we call background agents or long-running agents. and the other is, basically RLs and evals, which I put sort of together. And so they have very different patterns of usage, and if you look at the usage of a background And I'll just name names of companies, not specifically.Background Agents vs. RL/Evals: Two Usage ShapesSwyx [00:19:21]: Yeah, open, all hands.Ivan [00:19:23]: Yeah. So like a background agent's a Cognition, a Lovable, a like all these things are Harvey. These are all long-running, background agents. And so if you look at their usage patterns, their usage patterns are similar to human, which is like follow the sun. Basically, the usage patterns of that is like noon is probably the highest, and the midnight is the lowest, and then weekends are lower. weekday is higher.Swyx [00:19:42]: Yeah, that's a fun question. How global is it? Is it very US-centric or?Ivan [00:19:46]: The US is a large part, but we have currently, we have Asia, Europe, and the US regions.Swyx [00:19:52]: So it's quite global.Ivan [00:19:53]: Yeah, it's quite global. We have it all over. It's interesting that our I talked to you a bit about this. Our number one city by user.Swyx [00:20:01]: Hmm.Ivan [00:20:02]: Is Singapore.Swyx [00:20:04]: Oh, wow. Amazing.Ivan [00:20:05]: Which is an interesting one, right? Not by revenue, just by just like by individual head count.Swyx [00:20:09]: Really?Ivan [00:20:09]: Just like an interesting thing.Swyx [00:20:10]: Singapore is, Singapore is weirdly high in the adoption charts of AI for the population. It's like an, seven, eight million population. And it's like keeps showing up.Ivan [00:20:20]: No, it's quite interesting. We were quite shocked, and I was like, “Oh, this is interesting.” And also one that's up there.Swyx [00:20:24]: There's a reason I'm doing AI using Singapore. it's because I'm from there.Ivan [00:20:27]: We're there. We're gonna, we're gonna be there as well. and it's interesting that Japan is in the top or like Tokyo's in the top, which is in all the tech cycles it has never been. It has never been, so it's quite interesting that they're.Swyx [00:20:39]: I think the Japanese just love AI. Yeah. It's that, and then it's Brazil. That's it.Ivan [00:20:44]: Brazil has always been in.Swyx [00:20:45]: I think.Ivan [00:20:46]: Even when I look, if you look at like GitHub's data and ask historically with CodeAnywhere, it was always like US, Western Europe, and then you'd have like India, Brazil, China, like that would be there. But like Singapore was not in, specifically Japan was never in sort of that top, that top.Swyx [00:21:01]: Yeah. Weird pockets.Ivan [00:21:01]: Weird. Yeah, so it's very global.Swyx [00:21:02]: Okay, so actually that, but that's helps you to distribute your load through, all time?Ivan [00:21:08]: The interesting thing is like we have those kind of loads, but if you look at the researcher loads, they're quite different. So what they are is like if you give them concurrency of 10,000 or 50,000 or 100,000 CPUs at ARMb, when they fire off a run, it's just 100%. And then it just runs, and then it stops. So it's very, the usage pattern is squares basically, right? And it's also not follow the sun, because people will fire it off at midnight before they go to sleep but then wake up and so it's very unpredictable, so you don't know where that is. So the shapes of the usage are quite different than we have had before. And also what's interesting is when it's sort of a follow the sun, even if you have a high growth company, you can sort of predict your usage patterns and have enough capacity for that, because it's sort of, it grows in a, in a way you can project. When you have companies doing sort of like evals and RL, they're super spiky. So they're gonna come in, it's like, “We're gonna use nothing, then can we have 100,000?” Right? And then go back down. And then 100,000, go back down. So it's very different, right? And.Swyx [00:22:09]: Do you want to lock them into commits so.Ivan [00:22:11]: Yeah, we do.Swyx [00:22:12]: Yeah, okay.Ivan [00:22:12]: We so we have to lock them into some sort of commits to have that capacity, because we have to have, basically we have to have the capacity for peak. Right? And so right now, Daytona's mean utilization is 15%, 1-5.Swyx [00:22:25]: Oh my God.Ivan [00:22:26]: So it's very low.Swyx [00:22:27]: Because it's very spiky.Ivan [00:22:27]: It's very spiky, but we get up to 90%. so we have these things. And so what we're, what we're looking at right now as a company is similar to Cloudflare where you can like geo move things around, but that works really well for basically the background agent where it's follow the sun. But this, it's not. Like it's a very different shape. Obviously with scale you figure these things out, but that's an interesting new problem that we have, as a compute provider in the agent space. And when we were doing the conference recently, and so we talked to like Nikita from Neon and.Swyx [00:22:57]: I should bring it up.Ivan [00:22:58]: Parag from Parallel and whatnot, everyone has the same problem. Whereas the usage is super spiky, and this is something that has not happened before, that you have these types of like it was always, it the amplitudes were not this high, right? So it's quite interesting use case and problem solve.Compute Conference and Spiky Agent InfrastructureSwyx [00:23:12]: Yeah, I don't know if we're gonna bring this up again, but let's just talk about the conference, you had like 1,000 something people at the Warriors game, at the Sorry, where is it? What's.Ivan [00:23:22]: Chase Center.Swyx [00:23:23]: Chase Center.Ivan [00:23:23]: Chase Center.Swyx [00:23:24]: I went. It was, it was very impressive. Obviously, you can, how to throw a conference, what did you learn? you put, you pulled together all these impressive names.Ivan [00:23:33]: What I.Swyx [00:23:34]: What were you looking for?Ivan [00:23:35]: My thesis behind the Compute Conference was let's bring together people that are building infrastructure for AI agents. Because when I think of what we're building, it is the agent is the primary user, what are the ergonomics and usage patterns of agents, and so we can do that. And what I found, this was a theory, it wasn't proven, is that we all have these problems, as I touched onto. And I was, as I was talking on stage, it was like we all have the same underlying infra problems, which is this spiky workloads, unpredictable workloads that we've never had before, in human, compute or human infrastructure. And it's, again, it's the same when I was talking to Parag or when I was talking.Swyx [00:24:20]: Lynn. Nikita.Ivan [00:24:21]: Lynn, Nikita. Lynn especially, I was talking to her the other day as well. Like the It is a very interesting type of problem to solve because I can touch on Cloudflare because there's a lot of like talk about that recently as to how they solve that, which is they have a bunch of geos, and basically, as users work in different places, and depending on your tier, they can move you around the geos. And so that how, that's how they get the higher utilization. But you can sort of predict these, and it's If it's something in You'll rarely get a spike that is 10 orders of magnitude. Like you'll get a like let's say one of your customers has some like an exponential curve. What is that to I'm using Cloudflare as an example. 10%, 20%, whatever it is. I don't, I don't have this data, I'm just assessing. It's surely not 10x, right? It's surely not something there. And so how do you go out and solve this problem? And we're all solving this in different ways. So we have.Swyx [00:25:11]: She also has the same thing.Ivan [00:25:12]: Yeah, I know specifically that like Neon had that issue as well. Like how are we solving these spiky loads and things like that ‘cause we talked about it. And so the interesting thing for me to actually internalize was, yes, everyone that's building for agents first is going through this, and we're all solving similar problems, which is quite.Swyx [00:25:28]: Let me let me double-click on this. Okay. So for example, Neon, I happen to know that they're very sort of S3 oriented, right? so they're just like fully bet on S3. And you get to benefit from S3's distribution and infrastructure. So I would imagine that Neon doesn't have to care, whereas Lynn maybe has to care a bit more because obviously she's doing GPU inference. And, for listeners, we did an episode with her, one and a half years ago. And you have to care. But like, right?Ivan [00:25:54]: Parag cares for sure, and Nikita.Swyx [00:25:58]: And Parag is C of, Parallel.Ivan [00:25:59]: Parallel, yeah.Swyx [00:26:00]: Former CTO of Twitter.Ivan [00:26:01]: Twitter, yeah.Swyx [00:26:02]: They are the search.Ivan [00:26:03]: Yeah, they're search, yeah.Swyx [00:26:03]: I You and I know but the listeners don't know.Ivan [00:26:08]: Yeah, we can put it down in the screen, and so ‘cause we, when we were talking.Swyx [00:26:11]: I'll put it up on the, on the screen.Ivan [00:26:12]: Yeah, right.Swyx [00:26:12]: People can look it up if they need.Ivan [00:26:14]: Look it up. And, yes, but they still have CPU and RAM, allocation that you have to have up and running. And so CPU and RAM, you have to allocate that and have that ready. And so there's basically two ways to do it. One is you either over-provision and you can handle the bursts, or two, you basically have, I don't know if this is a term, just-in-time compute, which is like as your load becomes, as your usage comes in, you can fire off requests for VMs or bare metals at other cloud providers and then get them up and running.Swyx [00:26:43]: This is if you go above 100%, right?Ivan [00:26:45]: Yeah, this is.Swyx [00:26:46]: Like your overflow.Ivan [00:26:46]: If your overflow, like spillage or whatever you do.Swyx [00:26:48]: You probably lose money on it, but it doesn't matter, right?Ivan [00:26:50]: It, not Well, you might, you might not That is a more cost-effective way to do it but it's a slower way to do it. Because basically what you have to do is you have to like queue your requests, spin up these just-in-time compute, get it all ready, provision it, and then get your workload there. And so if the time isn't important that much, that's fine, and you can do that. But if your customer, and especially for, let's say, the RL training runs, the reason why a lot of people come to us is because GPUs are more expensive than CPUs, right? So you want your GPU running at, what, 100% the entire time. And so when you're running runs on CPUs, when the when the CPU cycle is like down and spinning up the next one, you want that to be instantaneous so that your GPU doesn't go down, right? And if you then have to like go out and provision machines, you're essentially telling the GPU that it has to wait, and that's incurring our cost. So there's things that you have to try to solve for there.RL Workloads, Declarative Images, and Kubernetes ReplacementSwyx [00:27:43]: Yeah, let's talk about the different workload, right? You said that, what was it? A few months ago, you had zero RL workload and now it's 50%.Ivan [00:27:52]: It will be this one, 50%, yeah.Swyx [00:27:54]: Let's talk about how different it is, right? Like I imagine, for example, a lot less dynamic code generation of like arbitrary code. Like here, it's probably all the same code. You're just doing parallel runs or something, I don't know.Ivan [00:28:05]: Yeah. So you'll have multiple Depends on the like for each run, you'll have a snapshot. And they, for the most part, they actually do use our declarative image builder, which is like, “Oh, we, the agent wants these dependencies, these env vars.”Swyx [00:28:17]: These ones, yeah.Ivan [00:28:18]: Yeah, the declarative image builder, it.Swyx [00:28:20]: Which is a very modal like thing that they.Ivan [00:28:22]: Yeah. And so we build it on the fly and then we propagate that snapshot, and you can spin up as many sandboxes as you want against that snapshot. And then if you have to do changes, the model can, or like it could be also be automated. It's like, “Oh, now for the next run, we need to install these things or remove these things or whatever to get, a task done,” and then it goes off and runs that. So yes, that is something that it seems that they prefer. The number one reason I found, or should I say, let's take a step back. What we are competing against in that environment is essentially managed Kubernetes. So EKS, GKE, whatever. That is what the vast majority run on. And anyone that has tried Daytona versus GKE, EKS is like, “I'm never going back.” That has always been. There's a few reasons. One is the ergonomics. So if you have, if you're using Kubernetes to spin that up, you have to essentially manage the interface interactions with that. Daytona, although as a compute provider, it's more akin to a Twilio and Stripe from a consumption perspective than it is an AWS. Like you have an API, an SDK, it's quite like easy and seamless to get these things up and running, that's one. The other is the speed to which we spin up, which we mentioned earlier, which is much faster, and the scale to which we can go to. We haven't got into features, but an interesting feature is that it's very hard to OOM, or out of memory, our sandboxes, because we can dynamically on the fly.Swyx [00:29:48]: Resize.Ivan [00:29:49]: Resize, which is like impossible on almost any other thing. There are some technologies that enable you to do that, but it's like a very hard thing. And so we actually saw this when, the Terminal Revenge team is, brought us actually. So thank you, Alex and the team, that brought us into this whole space.Swyx [00:30:05]: It's just very rare that, a framework would just say, “Guys, just use Daytona.”Ivan [00:30:11]: Yeah, I think it says it somewhere. Yeah.Swyx [00:30:13]: Yeah. I was like, “What is this?”Ivan [00:30:15]: There's all, there's multiple there, but they also mention a few other places. and so Daytona specifically-We have, the, just jumping on themes here We, I don't know where it says Data Center.Swyx [00:30:27]: I, there.Ivan [00:30:27]: Doesn't matter.Swyx [00:30:28]: There's a very strong recommendation, which is, very unusual. Which is, it's.Ivan [00:30:33]: We do not pay them for this, just.Swyx [00:30:34]: I know, yeah. They just like you.Ivan [00:30:35]: Yeah, they like us. yeah, and also a thing, so, Data Center has multiple isolation sets underneath. The customer doesn't have to know what they are. But basically we have Docker, which is a container, that's hardened with Sysbox. So it's Docker's, isolation that is a security equivalent to a VM, but it's still a container. And that is the default, and they, especially in these training workloads, really like that as an interface to be able to use just a basic Docker container, and we enable Docker and Docker. Which for these RL runs, if you need to do a Docker compose or Kubernetes, you can spin up a K3S inside of these things, which unlocks a huge amount of workloads that you can do that you cannot do on other providers. So just on that part is much more interesting. And so we went that, through that. We showed them that we could do that, and they enjoyed that quite a bit. They being the general venture people.Swyx [00:31:28]: Those people, yeah.Ivan [00:31:29]: And Harbor people.Swyx [00:31:29]: Harbor people, do are they, are they a company yet?Ivan [00:31:33]: As far, I do not know.Customer Pull, Slack Connect, and the Computer Use BetSwyx [00:31:35]: Okay. All right. Yeah. It's like super obvious that like, there's a lot of excitement and success around these things, okay, so yeah, tell us more, right? Like, this is an exploding workload, Harbor adopted you, which helped speed things along. But what are you learning as this new workload comes online?Ivan [00:31:53]: There's a couple things that we learned, which we chat about in the beginning. We, and this has led our story, as we mentioned, we like talked to a lot of customers along the way, and we add more features and more tool sets as we talk to customers. And it's interesting that And I think it's that the ecosystem is so small and/or the models get smarter, where when we see one user come with a request, we know it goes on a roadmap if like three to five customers come with the same request in that week. It's like very bizarre. It happens so many times, which is.Swyx [00:32:27]: Because they're all friends.Ivan [00:32:28]: Sorry?Swyx [00:32:28]: They all, they're all friends. They're all in the same group chat.Ivan [00:32:30]: Yeah, probably, yeah. ‘Cause and they're like, “Oh, can you do this?” And I'm like, “Okay, this is interesting. We'll put it on a feature request.” And then the next one's like, “Oh, can you do this?” “Okay.” It's all the same, right? It's always the same. And so what we try to do, and I personally try to do, I try to be on as many call, quote-unquote “sales calls” I can. I'm in every Slack channel. We literally have about 1,000 Slack Connect channels, something like that. It's an interesting, there's so many interesting things you find out when you have all the Slack channels. You can also see where people, transfer between companies. You see leave Slack channel, enter Slack channel. It's an interesting thing. Also, just I digress, I feel that Slack Connect is literally LinkedIn what it should be. You have a list.Swyx [00:33:08]: LinkedIn charges you to, use your own connections, but Slack doesn't, right? Slack is like, do it for free. It's more lock-in. It's great.Ivan [00:33:15]: Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It's one of the reasons.Swyx [00:33:17]: You're gonna pay Slack for life.Ivan [00:33:18]: Exactly. You're there for life. So that's interesting. And so one of the things, the newer things we were talking about earlier is we made a big bet and put a lot of investment on computer use. that is not seen publicly the light of day. We haven't GA'd that yet, but we have.Swyx [00:33:32]: Is there a thing I can pull up?Ivan [00:33:33]: There is computer use there. It's right up a bit.Swyx [00:33:36]: Oh, yeah. Okay.Ivan [00:33:38]: What we have, what we talked about and what we've seen publicly is there's this theme now about, the human emulator where And Elon from XAI has talked about this publicly, and if you think about the models today, they're actually quite sophisticated and they can do a lot of work, but they still don't have access to all the tools. Like, I'm a strong believer that the most efficient way for an agent to work is essentially headless or through, terminal or whatnot. But if we, if we look at knowledge work in general, there's about 100 million knowledge workers in the US, about a billion in the world, and knowledge workers, and the salaries of them aggregate to 10 trillion in the US 50 trillion worldwide.Swyx [00:34:24]: Wow.Ivan [00:34:25]: Something like that. And if we look at, the five most important sectors of that, so like healthcare and government and financial services and whatnot, that's about 56% of that. So let's say it's about half of that. So in the US it's about 25 trillion, and most of them, most of that work is actually still locked into legacy apps inside of Windows, which is not going anywhere for a very long time. Like, people just won't invest in that. How much of it? our assumption is the following: if, in the RPA market, which is similar market, well, not the same 25% of, these white collar, workers', work is automated. If an agent is more sophisticated, can go through more runs, figure stuff out, let's say it's, 40%, right? And so if you take 40% of that, you get to essentially, $10 trillion a year.Swyx [00:35:17]: That's a TAM.Ivan [00:35:18]: That is a that is a TAM. So that's the TAM of the models, right? That's not our, essentially ours. But you get to that size, and to be able to do that, you essentially have to give agents these computers with the legacy. So computer use, either Mac or Windows or Linux. Linux we also obviously have and others have. But Windows specifically is something very new, and the only option right now is an EC2 with, Windows or on Azure. Both of them take anywhere from three to five minutes to spin up. We've created an actual sandbox, so it's a second instead of milliseconds, but you have, point in time snapshots, you have, forking, you have all the things that you have from a sandbox, but essentially enables you to hopefully unlock all this value. And so that's been our big push and bet, but we've sort of, kept our ear to the ground. What is sort of the next things in the market?RPA Returns: Why Agents Still Need ComputersSwyx [00:36:06]: Yeah, knowledge work, and building, and sort of RPA, the next wave of RPA. I got very excited about RPA kind of during COVID times. The UI path was IPO-ing. And it was, a very hot Isn't it, Eastern European?Ivan [00:36:20]: It is, Romanian.Swyx [00:36:21]: Romanian?Yeah, it might be the only Romanian, big unicorn okay, yeah. This I don't I don't, I don't have like a I think there's, I think there's a stage being set for the resurgence of RPA, ‘cause everyone understands that, yeah, no one wants to deal with these shitty apps and no one's gonna rewrite them. Like, you just have to do, a remote operation and programmatic operation of them.Ivan [00:36:45]: If you wanna unlock it, my own setup was basically the following. So I was doing a board deck recently, last month, whatever, and I'm like, “Okay, let's just, let's just do automated.” So, all our data's in, ClickHouse and PostHog and QuickBooks, where everyone else's is, and I'm basically, connected that all to, my Cloud code, like go off and go Cloud code whatever. Go off and, here's the integrations, go do that. It pulled out the first report, which was great. It connected to Brex and all these things, pulled it, which was great, and then I say, “Okay, now pull out this, and this,” and I kept getting, really well McKinsey-style design reports, but the data said partial data. all the missing data, partial data. Like, it can't access all the things, and I got so frustrated, and so I got, I got, my Mac Mini virtual sandbox with OpenClaw. I gave it its own account in our company, and then I went to all these services and created a read-only account, so literally like an intern in your company. And so I would say, “Now go and do this report,” and it would get the same, or like, “I can't via the MCP or the API or whatever. I can't get all the information.” I'm like, “Go log in.” And it will log into the website, then go in, export the data. It'll export the data and do the thing end to end. So even for things that have today APIs, not all of it is exposed, and I to get value, I get immense value right now, but it has to be a computer usage, unfortunately, and so I spend a bunch of tokens just on that, but I get the job done. And so if even a startup like ours, and using all the hottest tools, still needs a computer agent what hope does, Goldman have to have a headless, right?Swyx [00:38:22]: Yeah, what a - Why isn't Microsoft doing this?Ivan [00:38:27]: I'm pretty sure, Satya had a post yesterday.Swyx [00:38:29]: Oh, okay. I see.Ivan [00:38:29]: Which was like, “Every agent needs a computer.”Swyx [00:38:31]: I see, I see.Ivan [00:38:32]: So they have launched something recently.Swyx [00:38:34]: Yeah, they have Microsoft Power Automate, I'm sure, I'm sure, they're gonna have their version.macOS Sandboxes, Apple Constraints, and the Windows OpportunityIvan [00:38:39]: Version of that, yeah.Swyx [00:38:39]: You're gonna try to do yours, and it - I always know there's always demand for Mac, but I know it's, tricky to host, macOS sandboxes.Ivan [00:38:49]: We will have macOS sandboxes fairly soon. The problem with macOS, OS sandboxes is, I'm deep in this, I don't know how much interesting is.Swyx [00:38:55]: No, it's.Ivan [00:38:56]: MacOS has this problem.Swyx [00:38:57]: It's a licensing thing, right?Ivan [00:38:58]: Licensing thing. So one, you're allowed to run only two parallel VMs per machine, so that's one. Two, you can only license to a different user every 24 hours. So if you come in and theoretically, if I wanna charge you per second and I charge you one second, I have to have it idle for the rest of the day. I can't have anyone else doing that. So the pricing will be different in the sense that I will have to - we would have to charge for 24 hours, and that's not even, that's not even the most difficult thing. But the, thing above that is, from a security perspective, they enable you to do memory snapshot, pause, resume, but only on the same physical drive, physical machine. And so what you can do in, Windows world or Linux world is that I can move in the background, your snapshot from one to the other and manage load, right? Here, if you wanna do that, you essentially have to have your.Swyx [00:39:49]: Yeah, snapshots. Yeah.Ivan [00:39:50]: Your.Swyx [00:39:51]: It's like.Ivan [00:39:51]: Physical machine.Swyx [00:39:52]: You can't break it up.Ivan [00:39:53]: You can't, you can't move things around that, and all of that is, that part is, from a security standpoint, if it is written. Like, I understand the security aspect of that, but it disables you from doing these agentic, like really scalable agentic workloads.Swyx [00:40:08]: You need to do a vibe-coded, clean room implementation on macOS that you can then - That's like Clean OS or something. I don't know.Ivan [00:40:17]: So. We have.Swyx [00:40:18]: ‘cause like Linux was originally like a clean room rewrite of Unix.Ivan [00:40:21]: Okay. Yeah.Swyx [00:40:21]: Or something like that, right? Like same thing to macOS. Someone needs to do it.Ivan [00:40:25]: Someone will do that, and someone will have some long-running agents for a few days to figure this stuff out. But yeah. So definitely we - we're really close to offering something ‘cause people do want it, but the pricing will be different, and the feature set will be sort of stringent.Swyx [00:40:38]: Yeah, nobody's gonna use this. like, the labs, the labs will because they want to automate macOS.Ivan [00:40:42]: They have to do RL. They have to do RL again. But even if you The - So the point is with the RL part, if you, if you do RL on macOS, then the next iteration of the model comes out, it will be able to use these tools significantly. Then you actually need to run those, that somewhere. So you're gonna have to have that, later on. And from, if anyone at Apple is listening, I very much feel that they are shooting themselves in the foot of the scale of the revenue of compute or licensing they could get if they would just enable a concurrency model similar to what you can get on a Windows and a, and Linux.Swyx [00:41:17]: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure they've heard this before. They just don't care. Yeah, it's And maybe they will change their mind with the new CEO.Ivan [00:41:24]: Yeah. We'll see.Swyx [00:41:25]: We'll see.Ivan [00:41:25]: High hopes.Swyx [00:41:26]: High hopes.Ivan [00:41:26]: High hopes.Swyx [00:41:27]: Okay. But I, it's very clear the market opportunity is huge in Windows, and you can go for a long time on just Windows, but your customers are gonna want both. and I think, it is interesting to me that, this is the sort of God application of agents, right? Like, I don't It was - How big was OpenClaw for you guys? Like, was it, was there, a significant bump.OpenClaw, Agent Labs, and the B2B2C Sandbox MarketIvan [00:41:54]: Not for us because we.Swyx [00:41:54]: Because you already.Ivan [00:41:55]: We're kind of positioned differently. Whereas although it's completely PLG and we have individual developers that use it, most of the users that use Daytona are sort of a B2B2C. Sort of it's either B2B or B2B2C. So, in the researcher world, it's B2B, so you're selling to, labs and neo labs and things like that. But on the long-running agents, it's mostly, from a scale revenue perspective, it's mostly B2B2C, where you have a app layer agent that uses you at a big scale.Swyx [00:42:26]: Like a Manus. Yeah.Ivan [00:42:28]: Like a Manus Lovable type of thing.Swyx [00:42:31]: Yeah. I think that's the question of, well how, um-Uh, yeah, B2B to C is basically to me what I've been calling an agent lab, which is kind of like you're not in a model lab, but you're making a very good wrapper that is a platform that other people can sign up so they don't have to code those things. Yeah, it sound, it sounds like a much better market than the direct OpenClaw market.Ivan [00:42:56]: I've like - We I've done multiple things. So the CodeAnywhere's part of our career path R in the calendar, was very much an end user developer product. And so that is great. It You can get a lot of developer love, and I feel that we do as a company have a bunch of developer love. But it's a different type, where it's people building these things. Again, it's more akin to a Twilio because you don't really run - As a person, you wouldn't run Twilio. I don't know how many people remember. It was like ask your developer billboard and whatnot. And people really love Twilio, but they only used it inside of like, “Oh, I'm building this app or service for thing.” And so we're very much directly to that. And you also know that I used to work for a competitor for Twilio, so it's kind of ingrained, in my DNA.Swyx [00:43:35]: People don't know InfoBip is that big.Ivan [00:43:38]: Yeah, it's.Swyx [00:43:39]: Because.Ivan [00:43:40]: It's a billion euro.Swyx [00:43:40]: They're all American. They're like, “Whatever's in Europe doesn't matter to me.” But like it's the, it's the same size or bigger? Same size?Ivan [00:43:46]: It's about half the size.Swyx [00:43:47]: Half the size?Ivan [00:43:48]: Yeah, about half the size.Swyx [00:43:48]: It's like, yeah.Ivan [00:43:48]: Still huge. Multiple billions a year. Yes.Swyx [00:43:51]: That's crazy.Ivan [00:43:51]: Exactly, and so that - These are like really interesting and large revenue-generating, very sticky businesses. Whereas when you're selling to the - When your focus is the end developer, it is a very hard sell because they're very price sensitive, very price conscious, very around that. And there's very It's very hard to scale. Your cap is the number of people that are willing to spin up - First of all, wanna spin that up, and then spin up multiple of these. Whereas if you're in the enterprise one, like we know everyone's talking about like how many tokens they're spending, I'm spending. Like a lot of companies today are like, “If this is our company, spend as much as you can.” Like basically that is where we're going. And so if you think about that paradigm, where you're selling to companies that say, “Spend as much as you can to generate, productivity,” versus, “Oh, I'm a single person. I have this much budget, and I'm doing this thing because it's fun or it's helping me out or whatever.” Like it is a different, it's a different go-to-market, I think, strategy.MCP, CLIs, and Sandboxes as the Agent RuntimeSwyx [00:44:50]: Yeah, there's a lot of discussion. I'm just kind of going through like the mental list of things that are in your favor, which is, for example, MCP versus CLI. Like obviously you want CLI. It's been very good for you. I feel like it's maybe a drop in the bucket or maybe it's huge. I'm just checking whether it's like these are big trends.Ivan [00:45:10]: Those things you - work well in our favor, to your point just because every.Swyx [00:45:13]: They're kind of drop in the bucket, right?Ivan [00:45:15]: I think it's like sort of all the things come together. And so there's so many things that impact that. To your point, like OpenClaw wasn't huge for us, but like having the agent SDK, from Anthropic, so or Cloud Claude Code was very interesting. The reason why it was interesting is that a lot of, let's call them app I don't know what to call them, app layer agent companies, essentially they are like, “Oh, I can create this new app, this new agent. All I need, I just use Claude Code, and I throw it into a sandbox, and then I have my interface to the human to that.” And so that enabled so many more companies to actually offer this, and then they would pull on sandbox. So that was, that was interesting. And to your point, like MCP, versus the CLI, the MCP is an interface against an API, whereas the CLI is like you can actually go do things. Like this is it. The difference between integrations and actually running scripts or data or analysis against a thing. So being able to use a CLI very well enables the agent to do more things, and it's because that people will invoke a sandbox, they'll run it in the CLI, and but it'll do anal-analysis on that data and then give you an actual result versus just, pulling data from an API source.Swyx [00:46:29]: Yeah, it's a layer of indirection basically, it's the same thing as agentic search versus RAG, which where you're.Ivan [00:46:34]: Exactly, yeah.Swyx [00:46:34]: Just like you just win whenever people put more agents into their workflow. And so like it doesn't really matter, but I'm just kinda teasing out like what else have people heard about that like it's sort of, “Oh yeah, this is another sandbox use case. Oh yeah, that's another one.” Am I, am I missing any big ones?Ivan [00:46:51]: The thing, the thing that people, which is the computer use stuff, which I think is probably the most interesting one, is, and to your point, we've talked to so many people over the last year. It's like, “Oh, like why do you need a sandbox? Why do you need this? Why this?” And to your point, it's like, “Oh, I need sandbox for this. I need sandbox for that. I need sandbox-” It's like, “Oh, I need it for every single thing.” And so basically what I, what I - and it sounds like a broken record, it's like you use a laptop every single day, right? And you are n of one. It's just you. But now imagine how And by the way, the laptop, the computer PC market, the PC market is about equal to the cloud market in total. So it's about 150, 180 billion a year. Something like that. It's about roughly the three cloud hyperscalers is about equal to like Apple, HP, Lenovo, whatever, It's a little bit less, but it's sort of like that. And now imagine And that's just like, so how big is the addressable market? What, how many people are there in the world now? What's the last data?Swyx [00:47:45]: Let's call it eight billion.Ivan [00:47:46]: Eight billion. And so let's say you can have two computer, like you have one personal and one business, whatever. Like so it's double that, right? and so that's 16 billion, right? How many agents are gonna be running in two years, in 10 years, in 100 years? Like And for every single task, they will need one of these. And so how big is that? That market is essentially quote unquote “infinite”. You will get to the point, and Dylan Patel was at the conference talking about, from SemiAnalysis, that talks usually about GPUs, was also talking about how CPUs will now be a bottleneck because it will be the constraint. You won't be able to grow, or we won't be able to have enough of these because there won't be enough CPUs to basically do.Swyx [00:48:23]: Yeah. Well, I actually had a really good podcast with Doug Oliphant, who, which was his president at SemiAnalysis, where they've basically been like, yeah, it's been a GPU shortage first, but then it's cascaded down to memory and now to CPUs.Ivan [00:48:35]: CPU, yeah.Swyx [00:48:35]: It-What's next? So networking. So, networking actually has been in shortage for a while if you're looking at, just GPU networking. But, yeah, it's really crazy the amount of computer use that's going on, yeah, cool. I, other questions are, just the one very big part is the open sourceness which you didn't have to do, your competitors don't do, like it's not, a lot of people are worried about keeping their projects open source because some competitor can just slot fork it. I don't know if there's any reflections on just being an open source company.Open Source, Trust, and Enterprise ProcurementIvan [00:49:15]: Yeah. There's a bunch. So we the original product that we did was open source.Swyx [00:49:19]: Yeah. CodeAnywhere.Ivan [00:49:20]: So doing that was actually very good for us. There's basically a saying of, What's the saying? Like, companies that are, that are doing really well, measure themselves against, free cashflow, that are kinda okay, it's EBITDA, then, it's, it goes all the way down.Swyx [00:49:36]: The worst is like GitHub stars.Ivan [00:49:37]: GitHub stars. GitHub stars are the worst, yeah. So you go all the way down to GitHub stars. And so our original one was GitHub stars. That's what we talked about, we're at the point we're talking about revenue, so we're we've gone up the stack on that. And so we started.Swyx [00:49:47]: No, profit.Ivan [00:49:48]: Yeah. We haven't, we're, we'll get there. We'll get there. But basically at that point we did stars and GitHub and it was useful, and the original variation that we did, it we split the core into its own repo and it was Apache 2.0, so very, permissive. And then we basically would bundl

Read my new book, The Price of Becoming. www.LearningLeader.com/Becoming The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk This is brought to you by Insight Global. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world has the hustle and grit to deliver. My guest: David Epstein is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Range and The Sports Gene. A former investigative reporter at ProPublica and senior writer at Sports Illustrated. His new book is called Inside the Box: How Constraints Make Us Better. Notes   Be part of "Mindful Monday" -- Text Hawk to 66866 Key Learnings The easier move is to let it go. David found a factual error in Ryan's new/my new book. David was supposed to read it and write a blurb on it - but went further and challenged a factual error. The kind move, what great leaders actually do, is being willing to point things out, even if it could cause a little friction.  There is such a thing as too much autonomy. After Range became mega viral, David optimized for autonomy. He individualized his whole life. He no longer was writing about what others assigned him. A year later, he realized there is a thing as too much autonomy. He missed the structure of a work day, the deadlines, the annoyances of working with other people's schedules. This total freedom ended up feeling terrible. "The great thing about being committed by your own choice is that you can stop wondering how to live and start living."  This quote by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi hit David when he was on a dating app for book topics, just swiping and swiping. That day he said, "I'm really interested in constraints. I need some myself. I'm writing a book proposal on this." Two weeks later he was 10 times more interested because he decided to dive into it. Cal Newport says "system shutting down" at the end of his workday. It seems silly, but when you have all that freedom, you need something to close the workday so you can recover and be ready for the next day. Your brain is made for preventing you from having to think whenever possible. Cognitive scientist Daniel Willingham says thinking is energetically costly. So when your calendar is too open, all you'll do is what's convenient. Your brain will be lazy. The path of least resistance. The mere urgency effect: when schedule and structure is too open, people do things that seem urgent even if they're unimportant. When you're too unstructured, you end up doing huge volumes of low value stuff just to have checked off doing something. What David's workday looks like now:  Batching work: people at work check their email on average 77 times a day. The way people are usually doing that is they're toggling all the time between email and something else. When you do that, it lowers your productivity and massively increases your stress. David doesn't start his day with his inbox. He'll check it at the end of the workday because emails can take him away from the most important work at the beginning of the day.  Stress + Rest = Growth. The workday ends when David's son gets home. When writing, you have to program in rest, just like you would if you were an athlete in training.  Daniel Kahneman said writing "Thinking Fast and Slow" was the worst few years of his life. David had lunch with Kahneman and praised the book. Kahneman said, "Never again." He said it was so isolating. He was used to working with a partner or multiple partners and colleagues. He felt so isolated that he said he'd never write a book again, or if he did, he would write it with somebody else. And that's what he did. And David could empathize with that.  David made a one-page architectural outline for how "Inside the Box" would look. If it's not on that page, it is not in the book. He wrote as small as possible to try to defeat his own system. The book's 20% shorter than his other two. He thinks it's much tighter writing. He was so much more efficient that he doesn't feel nearly as burned out. After a mega hit book, two things matter: (1) A lot is out of your control, and (2) Identify as a craftsman. David's colleague at Sports Illustrated told him, "If a book about genetics and vampires comes out the same day, you're screwed, and there's nothing you can do about it." He was right. But David very strongly identifies as a writer now, as a craftsman. He's taken fiction writing courses just to learn about craft. With Inside the Box, he did a structural experiment that he found so engaging because he was focused on the craft itself, not just the commercial outcome. "Docendo discimus" - by teaching, we learn. This is a quote from Seneca. If people think they're going to have to teach certain material, they organize it more coherently in their own mind. They start pulling out main ideas and attaching different ideas together. Teaching it is even better, but just making someone think they're going to have to teach it makes them learn in a much more coherent way. Narrative values: the recurring themes that give coherence to a life. David went back and looked at his life and identified: curiosity, open-mindedness, diligence, and resilience. Now that he's started telling his story in that way, it shows up everywhere. But going forward, he also wanted some things in his story that he didn't have. So he identified forgiveness in particular because that has not been a strong suit for him. Ben Helfgott: the only living Olympian to have survived a concentration camp. Almost everybody in his family was killed in the Holocaust. He just preached forgiveness all the time. When David saw what Ben did, these petty grudges he's holding are nothing. You're just poisoning yourself when you hold these grudges. So David decided he wanted forgiveness to become one of his narrative values.  Herbert Simon won the highest award in computer science, psychology, and the Nobel Prize in economics. His quote serves as the epigraph of the book: "It is a myth, widely believed but not less mythical for that, that people are most creative when they're most free." Simon coined the term "satisficing." It's a combination of satisfy and suffice. It means having good enough decision rules. He contrasted that with maximizing. From a mountain of psychological research, it is almost always bad to be a maximizer. Maximizers are less happy with their decisions, less happy with their lives, more prone to regret. There's not much evidence they actually make better decisions most of the time. Simon was a proactive satisficer. He said you need three sets of clothing: one on your back, one in the wash, and the next one ready to wear. He simplified all the decisions in his life so he could save cognitive bandwidth for the really important ones. He famously said, "The perfect is the enemy of the good." Choose when to choose. Choose when to save and when to use your cognitive bandwidth.  Good enough doesn't mean you have low standards. It means you're saving your bandwidth for the most important things. "How you do anything is how you do everything" is completely wrong. This is one of David's least favorite quotes. It's wrong. Herbert Simon did the same mundane thing, the same breakfast every day, the same socks, so he could crush it in his work. He wasn't doing everything the way he was doing his work. The Fredkins Paradox: We spend the most energy on the least important decisions because we agonize when the options are really similar. General Magic: They invented the smartphone in 1990. The iPhone would not exist without them. They had infinite degrees of freedom. They could do anything. When the device came out, it didn't solve a clear customer problem. It had a 200-page manual. They sold 3,000 units in the first six months. Meanwhile, people inside General Magic who bit off much smaller chunks had success. One low-level engineer started Auction Web. His bosses said no, too small. He left and changed the name to eBay. Another created Graffiti. He said "I'm going to solve a clear customer problem. Busy professionals want contacts and calendars on the go." He did just a calendar, contacts, and a memo pad. That was the Palm Pilot. By doing way less. By doing something, not everything. Tony Fadell (the "podfather"): "If you don't have constraints, make up constraints."  Bill Gurley said, "We have a saying in venture: more startups die of indigestion than starvation." When Tony co-founded Nest, he made his team work inside a literal box. He made them prototype the box before they had the product. If it didn't fit in that box, it was not a priority. Reflection Questions What area of your life has too much freedom right now? Where could you add a constraint (a deadline, a ritual, a boundary) that would actually make you more productive or creative? If you had to pick three narrative values that run through your life story, what would they be? Are they the ones you want, or do you need to add an aspirational value like David did with forgiveness? What's one decision you're maximizing (trying to find the perfect choice) when you should be satisficing (good enough and move on)? How much time and energy would you free up if you applied Herbert Simon's approach? More Learning #310 - David Epstein: Why Generalists Will Rule the World #582 - Cal Newport: Obsess Over Quality #660 - James Clear: The 4 Laws to Behavioral Change Podcast Chapters00:00 The Price of Becoming - Ryan's New Book 01:15 Meet David Epstein 02:39 The Fact Checker: What Great Leaders Do 04:27 Dedication Easter Eggs 05:50 The Problem With Too Much Autonomy 10:47 Why You Actually Need Constraints 12:29 Batching Work: The 77 Email Checks Problem 17:20 Lunch with Kahneman: Thinking Fast and Slow Was Miserable  22:18 What To Do After A Viral Book 27:07 Docendo Discimus: By Teaching, We Learn  29:13 Why Leaders Should Regularly Teach 31:09 Desirable Difficulties 31:56 Narrative Values: The Themes That Define Your Life 34:31 Adding Forgiveness As an Aspirational Value 36:13 Chips on Shoulders vs. Proving People Right 39:10 Herbert Simon: The Man Who Won Everything 40:20 Satisficing Over Maximizing 42:40 Choosing When To Choose 44:29 Good Enough Doesn't Mean Low Standards 46:13 Why "How You Do Anything" is Completely Wrong 47:25 General Magic: Do Something, Not Everything 52:49 One Year From Now: What Are You Celebrating? 54:54 EOPC

This is where it gets spicy. Part two kicks off with a crash course in policy experiments and why state-vs-state competition could be America's cheat code—or its downfall. If you've ever raged at why politicians keep talking but nothing gets fixed (homelessness, out-of-control rents, broken education system), Bill Gurley is right there with you—AND he's backing up his rant with receipts. We peel back what actually works in places like Austin and Houston—and why so much good policy gets blocked by bad incentives and performative politics. Get ready for eye-popping stories about lobbyists, broken U.S. systems versus what works in Germany and China, and why American media coverage can't keep up. Plus, we go deep on the future of AI—where Bill is refreshingly candid about both the bubble and the opportunity (if you're not learning these tools, what are you even doing?!). Bill breaks down exactly who loses their jobs, how schools and kids can weaponize curiosity, and why passion—not just hard work—protects you from getting left behind. Wrapping up, we riff on Bill's new book “Running Down a Dream,” the cruel illusion of the “safe” path, and why genius (and VC success) is a young person's game. This is SO much more than tech talk—this is your cheat sheet for thriving in a world that's never stopping. Follow Bill Gurley:Twitter: https://twitter.com/bgurleyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/ What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business: join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER:  https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business: see if you qualify here.:  https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox: sign up here.: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast, Tom Bilyeu's Mindset Playbook —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Blinkist: Start your free trial at https://blinkist.com/impactQuince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpodShopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impactKetone IQ: Visit https://ketone.com/IMPACT for 30% OFF your subscription orderQuo: Try for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months at https://quo.com/impactAT&T Business: Switch to AT&T Business at business.att.comNetsuite: Right now, get our free business guide, Demystifying AI, at https://NetSuite.com/TheoryMonetary Metals: Future-proof your wealth at https://monetarymetals.com/impactIncogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code IMPACT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/impact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is where it gets spicy. Part two kicks off with a crash course in policy experiments and why state-vs-state competition could be America's cheat code—or its downfall. If you've ever raged at why politicians keep talking but nothing gets fixed (homelessness, out-of-control rents, broken education system), Bill Gurley is right there with you—AND he's backing up his rant with receipts. We peel back what actually works in places like Austin and Houston—and why so much good policy gets blocked by bad incentives and performative politics. Get ready for eye-popping stories about lobbyists, broken U.S. systems versus what works in Germany and China, and why American media coverage can't keep up. Plus, we go deep on the future of AI—where Bill is refreshingly candid about both the bubble and the opportunity (if you're not learning these tools, what are you even doing?!). Bill breaks down exactly who loses their jobs, how schools and kids can weaponize curiosity, and why passion—not just hard work—protects you from getting left behind. Wrapping up, we riff on Bill's new book “Running Down a Dream,” the cruel illusion of the “safe” path, and why genius (and VC success) is a young person's game. This is SO much more than tech talk—this is your cheat sheet for thriving in a world that's never stopping. Follow Bill Gurley:Twitter: https://twitter.com/bgurleyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/ What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business: join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER:  https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business: see if you qualify here.:  https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox: sign up here.: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast, Tom Bilyeu's Mindset Playbook —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Blinkist: Start your free trial at https://blinkist.com/impactQuince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpodShopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impactKetone IQ: Visit https://ketone.com/IMPACT for 30% OFF your subscription orderQuo: Try for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months at https://quo.com/impactAT&T Business: Switch to AT&T Business at business.att.comNetsuite: Right now, get our free business guide, Demystifying AI, at https://NetSuite.com/TheoryMonetary Metals: Future-proof your wealth at https://monetarymetals.com/impactIncogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code IMPACT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/impact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu. In today's episode, we're diving into a powerful conversation with legendary investor and thought leader Bill Gurley. As the world stands at the crossroads of AI disruption and political upheaval, Bill unpacks what it takes to not just survive—but thrive—in times of profound change. From understanding how curiosity and agency can shield you from being left behind by technology, to exploring the realities of regulatory capture, policy failures, and the success secrets of entrepreneurs like Travis Kalanick, this episode leaves no stone unturned. Bill shares his perspective on how Americans can rediscover their competitive edge, the hidden truths behind educational and financial systems, and why embracing your fascination might be the answer to building a life of fulfillment—even in uncertain times. Whether you're a founder, investor, or simply eager to future-proof your life, this conversation with Bill Gurley is packed with actionable insights for the age of disruption. Let's get into it! Follow Bill Gurley:Twitter: https://twitter.com/bgurleyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/ What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business: join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER:  https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business: see if you qualify here.:  https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox: sign up here.: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast, Tom Bilyeu's Mindset Playbook —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Blinkist: Start your free trial at https://blinkist.com/impactQuince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpodShopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impactKetone IQ: Visit https://ketone.com/IMPACT for 30% OFF your subscription orderQuo: Try for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months at https://quo.com/impactAT&T Business: Switch to AT&T Business at business.att.comNetsuite: Right now, get our free business guide, Demystifying AI, at https://NetSuite.com/TheoryMonetary Metals: Future-proof your wealth at https://monetarymetals.com/impactIncogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code IMPACT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/impact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome back to Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu. In today's episode, we're diving into a powerful conversation with legendary investor and thought leader Bill Gurley. As the world stands at the crossroads of AI disruption and political upheaval, Bill unpacks what it takes to not just survive—but thrive—in times of profound change. From understanding how curiosity and agency can shield you from being left behind by technology, to exploring the realities of regulatory capture, policy failures, and the success secrets of entrepreneurs like Travis Kalanick, this episode leaves no stone unturned. Bill shares his perspective on how Americans can rediscover their competitive edge, the hidden truths behind educational and financial systems, and why embracing your fascination might be the answer to building a life of fulfillment—even in uncertain times. Whether you're a founder, investor, or simply eager to future-proof your life, this conversation with Bill Gurley is packed with actionable insights for the age of disruption. Let's get into it! Follow Bill Gurley:Twitter: https://twitter.com/bgurleyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billgurley/ What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business: join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER:  https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business: see if you qualify here.:  https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox: sign up here.: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast, Tom Bilyeu's Mindset Playbook —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter: https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Blinkist: Start your free trial at https://blinkist.com/impactQuince: Free shipping and 365-day returns at https://quince.com/impactpodShopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impactKetone IQ: Visit https://ketone.com/IMPACT for 30% OFF your subscription orderQuo: Try for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months at https://quo.com/impactAT&T Business: Switch to AT&T Business at business.att.comNetsuite: Right now, get our free business guide, Demystifying AI, at https://NetSuite.com/TheoryMonetary Metals: Future-proof your wealth at https://monetarymetals.com/impactIncogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code IMPACT at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/impact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The SpaceX IPO will likely be the largest public offering in history... But before you get excited, Nicole breaks down how the IPO machine actually works, and why some of the smartest people in finance say the system is rigged against you. Nicole walks through the full IPO process step by step: what underwriters actually do (and what they charge for it), how the roadshow and book-building work, and why the price you'll pay on IPO day is not the price institutional investors paid. She also covers what SpaceX employees need to know right now about their equity, stock options, RSUs, lockup periods, and the tax surprises that can blindside you before you sell a single share. Then, Nicole shares the framework she uses to evaluate any IPO, including the two sections of the S-1 prospectus most retail investors skip, and explains how you can get in on SpaceX before the IPO. Check out Nicole's financial literacy course The Money School  Find a Financial Advisor or Financial Coach from Nicole's company Private Wealth Collective Watch video clips from the pod on Money Rehab's Instagram and Nicole Lapin's Instagram  Here's what Nicole covers today:  00:00 Are You Ready for Some Money Rehab?  00:04 The SpaceX IPO: Just How Historic Is It?  01:08 How the IPO Process Actually Works  02:12 What Underwriters Do (and What They Cost)  03:04 The Roadshow and How IPO Pricing Works  03:45 NYSE vs. NASDAQ: Where Will SpaceX List?  04:25 Why Companies Go Public  05:14 What SpaceX Employees Need to Know About Their Equity  06:00 Lockup Periods Explained  07:06 Three Things Every Employee Must Do Before an IPO  08:06 Is the IPO System Rigged? Bill Gurley's Argument  10:00 The Figma Example: How Retail Investors Got Burned  11:19 How to Evaluate Any IPO Before You Invest  13:27 Watch the Lockup Expiration Date  14:09 Tip You Can Take Straight to the Bank All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute financial, investment, or legal advice. Always do your own research and consult a licensed financial advisor before making any financial decisions or investments.

They say do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. But c'mon. Is that possible in this day and age? On today's show, we speak to a tech investor who tells us the ingredients he believes are needed to make passion pay. And we hear from an economist who's run the numbers on luck. Bill Gurley's book is Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love.  Come see Planet Money live on stage! 12 cities. Details and tix here: planetmoneybook.com/#tour Related episodes: Teamwork actually does make the dream work  Why women make great bosses  For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez. Music by Drop Electric. Find us: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Newsletter.  To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below:See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Most career advice gets one thing wrong: it always tells you to follow your passion. In this episode of Technoventure, Bill Gurley, recent Author of Runnin' Down a Dream, General Partner at Benchmark and investor in companies like Uber and Zillow shares a more actionable framework: follow your fascination. Drawing from decades in venture capital and insights from his new book, Gurley explains how curiosity, not convention, drives long-term success. Key insights include: Why fascination is a stronger signal than passion How over-structured career paths lead to disengagement The role of peer networks in accelerating growth Why non-linear careers produce better outcomes How AI is reshaping opportunity and speculation cycles

Concerns grow over AI's cyber security risks with the Fed Chair and Treasury Secretary meeting with bank executives. Legendary investor Bill Gurley lays out his thoughts on the rapidly changing landscape. Then CoreWeave inking yet another deal with a major AI player, this time Anthropic. We look at the bull and bear cases for the stock. And a new treatment from Revolution Medicines targets one of the deadliest forms of cancer, pancreatic.   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Bill Gurley, legendary investor behind Uber, Snapchat, and Twitter, shares why "follow your passion" is dangerously misleading, what to chase instead, what the best startup founders do, and the delusional factor that separates outliers from everyone else.  Plus, his best advice on finding a mentor, landing your dream job, his biggest mistake (passing on Google), and what he'd tell young leaders just starting out.

As the U.S. and Iran enter a high-stakes, two-week ceasefire, Brian Kilmeade explores if this is a strategic masterstroke or a "fragile" mistake. Hudson Institute Senior Fellow Michael Doran joins to break down why President Trump rejected Iran's "comical" 10-point proposal and the truth behind the $2 million extortion fees being charged at the Strait of Hormuz. [00:00:00] Michael Doran   [00:18:26] Bill Gurley   [00:55:13] Jonathan Ruhe   [01:13:38] Karl Rove   [01:32:01] Buck Sexton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Daredevil Michelle Khare lives life to the extreme in Challenge Accepted, amassing more than 6 million followers and more than 1 billion views. Across the show, you'll see Michelle attempt everything from Tom Cruise's Deadliest stunt to Harry Houdini's water torture cell to trying to earn a black belt in taekwondo in only 90 days.This episode is brought to you by:Fin powerful AI Agent for all your customer service: Fin.Ai/TimMonarch track, budget, plan, and do more with your money: Monarch.com/Tim Momentous Fiber+ 3-in-1 formula with soluble fiber, insoluble fiber, and Solnul® resistant starch: LiveMomentous.com/TimAG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: DrinkAG1.com/TimTIMESTAMPS:[00:00:00] Start.[00:00:24] Challenge Accepted: The logline and why breakdowns stay in the edit.[00:03:05] Growing up in Shreveport, LA: Friday night movies, the AFI Top 100, and interning on Snitch.[00:06:15] Podcasting: While “easier” than writing books, it's a heck of a lot more work than meets the ear.[00:21:24] Quality over quantity: 8–10 episodes a year, scarcity as strategy, and building a defensible moat.[00:31:47] “Hard choices, easy life.” — Jerzy Gregorek, calling the FAA 300 times, and why no one copies you when the barrier is insanity.[00:35:32] Dartmouth to Google.org: the Fermi estimation faceplant and not getting the job.[00:37:10] BuzzFeed as graduate school of the internet.[00:40:37] Work for someone else first: My case against starting a company right out of school.[00:47:28] The stolen book: Michelle pulls out a battered 2016 copy of The 4-Hour Workweek and reads her fear-setting chart aloud.[00:51:10] “I've never designed my own rubric of success” — the nightmare, the repair plan, and what Michelle was putting off out of fear.[00:56:59] Practicing poverty: studio apartment, stripped-down life, moonlighting for a year, then the three-month-savings leap.[01:06:58] Kebab-shop destiny: meeting stunt coordinator Steve Brown in L.A. — now he does Avatar and straps Michelle to planes.[01:09:04] Surface area for luck: Bill Gurley, Kevin Kelly's sleeping bag, and Seneca on voluntary discomfort.[01:12:44] Coach, mentor, cheerleader: the three-person Formula One team you actually need.[01:17:20] The art of the cold email — and cold-calling the FBI tip line to meet “The Hollywood Guy.”[01:21:55] Michelle's three-paragraph, six-sentence formula for emails that open any door.[01:26:15] My cold email playbook: the “via” trick, include your damn cell number, and why “Yo, Ferriss” is an auto-archive.[01:36:24] The fake Tim Ferriss Podcast phishing scam: Zoom calls, screen access, and hijacked Facebook pages.[01:40:58] Emailing Hank Green, Brandon Sanderson's unpublished novels, and why your first cold emails are just practice reps.[01:46:37] Michelle's storytelling syllabus: Survivor, Snyder's Save the Cat, and peer review of whatever went viral last week.[01:48:44] The magic of Jeff Probst, and dissecting the bones of storytelling.[01:53:12] John McPhee's red-ink writing class at Princeton.[01:58:38] Six Thinking Hats broke Michelle's pessimism; Radical Candor taught her how to give feedback.[02:07:20] The slinky org chart: Seven full-timers that balloon to 50 for a shoot, then compress right back.[02:21:21] Scope creep, saying no to big checks, and why Michelle has never hit creator burnout.[02:30:34] My No Book teaser: 850 pages on renegotiating commitments and getting back on the wagon.[02:33:31] The Mindy Kaling manifesto: @MindyKalingFan, The Office, and shattering expectations for Indian women in entertainment.[02:40:38] Wishlist shout-out: Norland College, where Mary Poppins meets Secret Service.[02:42:48] Episodes Michelle would pay to relive.[02:47:40] Episodes Michelle would pay to skip.[02:52:15] Seven marathons, seven continents, one week.[02:57:10] Free Solo, Alex Honnold in the creepy van, and things both of us would never do.[03:00:38] Books gifted most: Radical Candor, The Great CEO Within, and Adam Grant's Originals.[03:01:21] Michelle's billboard.[03:02:45] A primetime Emmy run and parting thoughts.*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim's email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim's books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bill Gurley is a venture capitalist known for early investments in Uber, Grubhub, Zillow and many others. Gurley joins us to discuss "Running Down a Dream," his new book — which is full of career advice that is as surprising as it is useful.  In this episode, we discuss: The Power of Mentorship: Why Bill feels a moral urge to share what he's learned with the world. The "Safe" Path Trap: Why the jobs your parents think are safe might actually be the most dangerous in the age of AI. The Peer Group Secret: Why sharing your best ideas with others actually makes you more successful than hoarding them. Finding Your Obsession: Why Bill looks for "fascination" rather than just "passion."  

Bill Gurley, legendary venture capitalist and early investor in Uber and Zillow, shares the principles behind identifying billion-dollar companies. He reflects on missing the Google opportunity, lessons from evaluating thousands of founders, and why execution consistently beats ideas. The conversation explores network effects, founder psychology, venture capital decision-making, and how young investors can build an edge in emerging industries.Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nikhil Basu Trivedi and Mike Smith are the Co-founders of Footwork where they invest up to $15 million in Seed and Series A rounds. This is the first time they've ever sat down to record a conversation together on video.We talk about starting the firm in 2020, their secret sauce for working with founders, lessons investing in Canva's Seed round, scaling Stitch Fix from $0 to $1B revenue in five years with $17m in capital, why AI will enable a new wave of entrepreneurship, and how public company boards are discussing AI today.Thank you to Tony Staehelin, Andrew Riesen, and Hunter Walk for helping brainstorming topics for the conversation.Thank you to Flex for supporting this episode.Sign-up for Flex Elite with code TURNER, get $1,000: https://form.typeform.com/to/Rx9rTjFzTimestamps:(0:24) Starting Footwork from a tweet in 2021(3:11) Difference between startup and public company boards(4:52) 20-40% of board meetings are now about AI(7:48) How Footwork's investing in AI today(10:37) AI will enable millions of new entrepreneurs(15:04) 37 questions to ask when starting a VC firm(17:40) Importance of differences(23:08) The pace of VC is faster than operating(26:26) Footwork's secret sauce (2x board seats, 1-pager)(31:59) Investors should talk to and help employees(37:05) Building an equal-carry partnership(39:33) How Footwork makes decisions(43:21) Navigating short-termism and politics in VC firms(51:18) “You're only as good as your next investment”(53:30) Characteristics of great founders(58:13) Canva's Seed pitch in 2014(1:02:54) Joining Stitch Fix as 4th employee(1:06:40) Scaling Stitch Fix $0 to $1B revenue in five years with $17m in capital(1:16:48) Raising from Bill Gurley after a failed Series A(1:19:40) Footwork's office near YC(1:22:10) Opportunities in consumer health(1:25:20) Using flash mobs to win deals(1:26:15) Dad lifeReferencedFootwork: https://www.footwork.vc/Anything: https://www.anything.com/Table22: https://www.table22.com/Canva: https://www.canva.com/Stitch Fix: https://www.stitchfix.com/Honeydew: https://www.honeydew.com/Follow MikeTwitter: https://x.com/msmith492LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelcsmith1Follow NikhilTwitter: https://x.com/nbtLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikhilbtSubstack: https://nbt.substack.com/Follow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

AI founders are finally turning to paid marketing… and the internet is losing its mind!This week, James and Daniel unpack the debate sparked by Andrew Chen and Bill Gurley, and question whether paid marketing really kills creativity. They also explore why, despite 25+ years of data, there's still no clear startup playbook and why that might never change.Plus: the shift from hiring people to hiring tech, why AI could reward leaders like Mark Zuckerberg, and a few bold takes from Paul Graham.It's the funniest era of tech, where everything is easier to build, harder to grow, and somehow… ads still work.STAY CONNECTEDJAMES on Twitter & Linkedin – /jamesborowDANIEL on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok – /danieldruger

Today on Open Book, I'm joined by legendary venture capitalist Bill Gurley, whose new book Runnin' Down a Dream challenges a lot of the career advice we give young people. Bill argues that the safest career path isn't the “safe job” at all—it's finding something you're genuinely fascinated by and chasing it relentlessly. We're going to talk about curiosity, regret, and how to build a career you actually love. Bill Gurley is a general partner at Benchmark, a leading venture capital firm in Silicon Valley. Over his venture career, he has invested in and served on the board of such companies as Nextdoor, OpenTable, Stitch Fix, Uber, and Zillow. Gurley has written about technology and other subjects on his popular blog, Above the Crowd, for over 20 years. This is a sensational book. Get your copy of Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love here: https://amzn.to/46X4rEc Anthony Scaramucci is the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge, a global alternative investment firm, and founder and chairman of SALT, a global thought leadership forum and venture studio. Pre-order my next book, All the Wrong Moves: How Three Catastrophic Decisions Led to the Rise of Trump, out on the 17th of September in the UK and the 22nd of September in the US: ⁠https://linktr.ee/anthonyscaramucci⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When Bill Gurley wanted to break into Wall Street, there were no job postings waiting for him. So he flew to New York, knocked on doors, and asked strangers for meetings. That hustle launched a career that would eventually take him to Silicon Valley, where he became one of the most respected venture capitalists in tech. In this episode, Bill joins Ilana to reveal the unconventional lessons that shaped his journey. From chasing curiosity to designing your own career path, he explains how anyone can create opportunities, stand out in a crowded field, and build a career that actually excites them. Bill Gurley is a Silicon Valley venture capitalist and a longtime partner at Benchmark Capital, a Silicon Valley venture capital firm. He has invested in and served on the boards of major companies, including Uber, OpenTable, Zillow, Nextdoor, and Stitch Fix. In this episode, Ilana and Bill will discuss: (00:00) Introduction  (03:14) Where Bill Gurley's Tech Curiosity Began (05:09) Transitioning from Engineering to Finance (08:25) Breaking Into Wall Street Without a Job Posting (14:24) The Question That Made Him Quit Wall Street (19:59) Making a Pivot to Venture Capital (24:41) The Best Way to Get Into Venture Capital (26:50) How to Know If You're in the Right Career (30:30) The Role of Experimentation in Career Growth (33:20) How to Stand Out in a Competitive Job Market (37:29) Why Location Can Make or Break Your Career (40:50) Breaking Free From the “Safe Career” Pressure (48:30) The 5–5–5 Rule for Career Experiments Bill Gurley is a venture capitalist, technology investor, and general partner at Benchmark Capital, best known for his early investment in companies like Uber. Before venture capital, he worked as an engineer at Compaq and later as a Wall Street technology analyst. Throughout his career, Bill has been known for identifying transformative companies early and for his widely read blog Above the Cloud. His new book, Running Down a Dream, offers a practical guide to building a fulfilling career Connect with Bill: Bill's X (Twitter): x.com/bgurley  Bill's Website: abovethecrowd.com  Resources Mentioned: Bill's Book, Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593799666  One Up On Wall Street: How to Use What You Already Know to Make Money in the Market by Peter Lynch: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0743200403  Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World by David Epstein: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0735214484  Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593139135  Leap Academy: Ready to make the LEAP in your career? There is a NEW WAY for professionals to fast-track their careers and leap to bigger opportunities.  Check out our free training today at https://bit.ly/leap--free-training

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In an exclusive interview with CNBC, Treasury Sec. Scott Bessent detailing what the passage of ships in the Strait of Hormuz means for global energy prices. Then Morgan Stanley Wealth Management detailing what high oil prices could mean for the upcoming midterm elections. And Benchmark's Bill Gurley. On how AI is disrupting the workforce. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Bill Gurley is a venture capitalist, general partner at Benchmark, and a former Wall Street analyst. How do you find work you actually enjoy? So many people warn about the jobs they hate and the dreams they never chased. But turning passion into a career is harder than it sounds. So how do you reinvent yourself and build a life where work feels meaningful instead of miserable? Expect to learn why most people end up having careers they regret, how to build a framework for regret minimisation, what people do that achieve success in their dream career, how to know when you're plateauing versus when you're just bored, what great mentors actually do that books and podcasts can't, if someone can learn to love the grind or if it is something that's innate, how you know if you're in the wrong field versus just in the hard phase of the right field and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/deals⁠ New pricing since recording: Function is now just $365, plus get $25 off at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get up to $350 off the Pod 5 at https://eightsleep.com/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Get up to 20% off the leading longevity and cellular health supplement at https://timeline.com/modernwisdom Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/books⁠ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: ⁠https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom⁠ Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: ⁠https://tinyurl.com/43hv6y59⁠ #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: ⁠https://tinyurl.com/2rtz7avf⁠ #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: ⁠https://tinyurl.com/3ccn5vkp⁠ - Get In Touch: Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast⁠ Email: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/contact⁠ - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

#697: Most people regret the things they never tried. Venture capitalist Bill Gurley says that pattern shows up again and again in research on end-of-life regrets — including regret about the careers people never pursued.  In this episode, Gurley joins us to talk about how people actually discover work they enjoy - and why the cliché to “follow your passion” sends people in the wrong direction. We start with a question many listeners wrestle with: what if you reach your forties or fifties and still do not know what you want to do?  Gurley explains that career changes later in life remain possible. Financial flexibility helps. People who spend every dollar they earn limit their ability to shift paths. People who control their spending keep more options open. Gurley argues that “passion” often appears only after someone spends time exploring a field. A better starting point involves fascination - the subjects that pull your attention when nobody assigns the work.  Gurley suggests paying attention to what you study in your free time. If you find yourself reading about a topic instead of watching Netflix, that curiosity may signal a possible career direction. We also discuss how most successful careers involve several stops along the way.  Gurley studied hundreds of success stories and found that many people move through two or three roles before landing their long-term path. That pattern shows up across industries. Gurley began as a computer engineer working at Compaq. Even though he enjoyed the work, his curiosity shifted toward investing and business.  He eventually left engineering, went to business school and started knocking on doors in New York until he landed a job as a Wall Street analyst. That path later led him to Silicon Valley and a 25-year career in venture capital. Throughout the conversation, we talk about continuous learning, side projects that expand career options and how curiosity often shapes a career more than long-term planning. Resources Mentioned: Runnin' Down a Dream by Bill Gurley - https://amzn.to/4loywlQ The Power of Regret by Daniel Pink - https://amzn.to/4sNwZbQ Designing Your Life by Dave Evans & Bill Burnett - https://amzn.to/47yfeov One Up on Wall Street by Peter Lynch - https://amzn.to/4ruPsIX Atomic Habits by James Clear - https://amzn.to/4bj3cjR Interview with James Clear - Afford Anything Episode #638 Interview with David Epstein - Afford Anything Episode #206 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Run your life like a $100M business. Get Sam's system here: https://clickhubspot.com/fhs Episode 803: Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) sits down with legendary investor Bill Gurley ( https://x.com/bgurley ) about how to avoid the biggest mistake you can make in life.  — Show Notes:  (0:00) 6 out of 10 people hate their job (11:24) Insane determinism (14:15) Finding your fascination (21:19) Underrated advice: Peer Groups (26:55) Dancing to work (28:44) Learning leadership (33:19) Risk vs uncertainty  (42:19) Be fearful when others are greedy — Links: • Runnin' Down a Dream- https://www.amazon.com/Runnin-Down-Dream-Thrive-Actually/dp/0593799666  — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Shaan's weekly email - https://www.shaanpuri.com  • Visit https://www.somewhere.com/mfm to hire worldwide talent like Shaan and get $500 off for being an MFM listener. Hire developers, assistants, marketing pros, sales teams and more for 80% less than US equivalents. • Mercury - Need a bank for your company? Go check out Mercury (mercury.com). Shaan uses it for all of his companies! Mercury is a financial technology company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group, Column, N.A., and Evolve Bank & Trust, Members FDIC • I run all my newsletters on Beehiiv and you should too + we're giving away $10k to our favorite newsletter, check it out: beehiiv.com/mfm-challenge — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth • Sam's List - http://samslist.co/ My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by HubSpot Media // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano /

Life is a use-it-or-lose-it situation, says our speaker. Shouldn't you try to spend it doing something you love? Venture capitalist Bill Gurley has set out to teach people his ideas for how to find your dream job and avoid a career you'll regret.  For lots of young people, career paths feel like conveyor belts—the next test, the next application, the next college—without a pause to ask what they really want to do with their lives. After Gurley went to college, he landed a job at a famous tech company. A dream job, right? But he was bored, so he took a chance and leapt into the unknown, eventually finding his place in the world of venture capital.  Such a result is rare. He says nearly six in ten people would do things differently if they could start over. So how can you avoid career regret? What can people at the top of their fields teach you about loving what they do? Gurley has assembled six principles to flourish in your chosen career, and he has explained it all in his new book Runnin' Down a Dream. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The best careers are built on curiosity. Bill Gurley — the legendary Benchmark Capital investor behind Uber, Zillow, and Snapchat — makes that case in his new book, Runnin' Down a Dream. I sat down with him on the same day we published LinkedIn's annual Skills on the Rise list, and his message felt like a perfect companion to it: the skill that makes all the others possible is being a continuous learner. And for that, Bill says, you need to have fascination.

Bill Gurley is a Wall Street and Silicon Valley legend. He's the analyst who led the Amazon IPO and went on to become one of the most successful VCs of all time and an early investor in Uber, Zillow, and GrubHub. Today, he joins Nicole to answer the biggest questions on investors' minds right now. Bill doesn't mince words: yes, we're in an AI bubble— and he explains exactly why, from circular spending deals that smell like Enron to the speculative behavior that always follows a real wave of innovation. He breaks down why the IPO system is rigged against retail investors, what tokenization could do to fix it, and what a SpaceX IPO would actually mean for everyday investors. He also shares the one market sector he thinks is quietly becoming a buy, and the specific Chinese battery stock he personally owns. Then the conversation shifts to Bill's new book, Runnin' Down a Dream, and his surprisingly personal framework for building a career you actually love. He shares the question he asked himself twice that changed the entire course of his life, his research on career regret, and why chasing passion is a competitive advantage. Check out Nicole's financial literacy course The Money School  Find a Financial Advisor or Financial Coach from Nicole's company Private Wealth Collective Watch video clips from the pod on Money Rehab's Instagram and Nicole Lapin's Instagram Get Bill's book Runnin' Down a Dream  Here's what Nicole covers with Bill:  00:00 Are You Ready for Some Money Rehab?  01:12 SpaceX + xAI: What Elon's Deal Really Means  03:18 Why Retail Investors Keep Getting Shut Out of the Best Companies  05:55 The IPO System Is Rigged  08:36 Inside the Amazon IPO 10:40 Are We in an AI Bubble?  16:30 AI vs. the Dot-Com Bubble 21:15 Which AI Tools Bill Actually Uses  22:00 Bill's Take on AGI Hype  23:30 Where Bill Sees Opportunity Outside of Tech  27:30 The Chinese Battery Stock Bill Personally Owns  28:45 How to Evaluate Stock Options as an Employee  31:50 The Hidden Value of Joining a Fast-Growing Company  33:15 Buy Side vs. Sell Side Analysts  35:40 The Question That Changed Bill's Career Twice  38:00 Why Following Your Passion Is a Competitive Advantage  42:00 How Tito's Vodka Started with a Blank Sheet of Paper  45:20 Bill's Next Chapter: A Policy Institute  48:00 Nuclear Energy, Healthcare, and the Issues Bill Wants to Fix  51:06 Bill Gurley's Tip You Can Take Straight to the Bank All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute financial, investment, or legal advice. Always do your own research and consult a licensed financial advisor before making any financial decisions.

The rules of career success just changed. Hard skills matter less. Credentials matter less. And playing it safe? That might be the riskiest move of all. Bill Gurley has backed Uber, DoorDash, eBay, and Snap. He's spent 30 years watching who wins and who gets destroyed. In the AI era, that gap is about to become a canyon. In this conversation, Bill breaks down the exact skill stack that makes you anti-fragile: why unbridled determination beats raw intelligence, why salesmanship is the most compounding founder skill nobody talks about, and why the conveyor belt from college to consulting is now the highest-risk career path in existence. You'll learn the Jeff Bezos hiring filter for people who will build something come hell or high water, why AI is a jetpack for the self-directed and a threat to everyone else, how open-source Chinese AI models are a bigger disruption than most realize, and the regret minimization framework Bezos used to decide whether to start Amazon. If you've ever wondered whether you're on the right path — or how to stand out when everyone has access to the same tools — this one will permanently change how you think about winning. Ready to turn your newsletter into your career? Head to https://beehiiv.link/uth844 and use code CODIE30 for 30% off your first three months. Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code BIGDEAL at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: https://incogni.com/bigdeal ___________ ___________ MORE FROM BIGDEAL

Running Down A Dream: How to Succeed and Thrive in a Career You Love by Bill Gurley has been one of the most valuable talks I've heard. For years I have been using ideas from that talk to build this podcast. Bill has written a new book based on that talk: Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love. This episode explores the most valuable ideas from the book and talk. Episode sponsors: Ramp⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ gives you everything you need to control spend, watch your costs, and optimize your financial operations —all on a single platform. Make history's greatest entrepreneurs proud ⁠⁠⁠by going to Ramp.com to learn how they can help your business save time and money.⁠⁠⁠ https://ramp.com Automate compliance, security, and trust with Vanta.⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Vanta helps you win trust, close deals, and stay secure—faster and with less effort⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠Find out how increased security leads to more customers by going to Vanta⁠⁠⁠. Tell them David from Founders sent you and you'll get $1000 off. https://vanta.com/founders

In this episode, Kyle sits down with venture capitalist and author Bill Gurley to talk about how to figure out your passion, what people get wrong about networking, and why pursuing your dream career isn't such an idealistic idea.  00:00 Intro 01:23 How do we recognize if we have a “passion”? 04:40 Do we spend enough time in a sampling period? 08:48 Something Bill advises young people to ask of older adults 09:14 How Bill responds to the pushback that people should aim for a stable, money-making career instead of their dream jobs 11:21 On mentorship and networking 17:09 Bill's “Go where the action is” principle  21:54 Advice to people early in their career with regards to emerging technologies Be sure to check out Bill's new book, Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love. Want to get all of Kaila & Kyle's career resources? Subscribe to Per My Last Email: https://www.permylastemailshow.com/  Watch Per My Last Email on YouTube:   @PerMYLastEmailShow Follow Per My Last Email Instagram: @permylastemailshow TikTok: @permylastemailshow Twitter: @permylast_email Have a question for us? Send us an email or voice note to permylastemail@morningbrew.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Each week on Per My Last Email, Morning Brew's resident career experts Kaila and Kyle – whose careers have collectively spanned the corporate, government, nonprofit and startup sectors – debate the trickiest challenges in work life, and share tactics on how to overcome them. Share the show with a friend, and leave us a review on your favorite podcast app! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bill Gurley, accomplished venture capitalist, longtime Silicon Valley “worrywart,” and early Uber backer, joins Kara Swisher to discuss how to build a career you love and the tech industry's sharp turn to the right.  Gurley's new book Runnin' Down a Dream, guides readers on how to find and nurture a truly fulfilling career — and his advice is the polar  opposite of Scott Galloway's “follow your talent, not your passion.”  Kara and Bill talk about how to find your fascination, and why the best careers are built through craft, peers, mentors, and a willingness to start at the bottom. They also dig into AI-related job loss anxiety and Gurley's growing focus on public policy — from regulatory capture to the concentration of power in the Mag 7. Plus: an expert question from Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill Gurley is a titan of Silicon Valley, a visionary investor who has shaped the landscape of modern business with game-changing insights and investments in companies like Uber and Zillow. As a general partner at Benchmark, Gurley's track record is undeniable, but it's his passion for unlocking human potential, articulated in his new book "Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love," that truly sets him apart. Through his popular blog "Above the Crowd" and social media, he has consistently shared his wisdom, inspiring countless individuals to pursue careers they genuinely love with confidence and strategic methodology.Takeaways:Unlocking Human Potential: The book "Runnin' Down a Dream" aims to equip individuals with the motivation and methodology to pursue their passions confidently, even in non-traditional fields.Mentorship and Sharing Knowledge: Learning from legends like Bobby Knight highlights the exponential positive impact of seeking mentors and generously sharing your own knowledge with others, rather than viewing success as a zero-sum game.Harnessing AI for Career Growth: Rather than fearing AI, individuals should embrace it as a "jet pack, jet fuel superpower" for accelerated learning and career advancement, especially for those with "agency" and a passion for continuous self-learning.Sound Bytes:"I could have written a book about investing or venture capital or any of those things, but it wouldn't touch as many people as I hope this one can touch.""I think the most positive reflection people should have on Bobby Knight, and I know there's a controversy about some of his tactics along the way, is his coaching tree.""If your career is crafted by the educational industrial complex and you're one of a hundred people doing the exact same thing and you come out of of academia like a widget and you're not someone who's passionate or not someone who self learns, you are a sitting duck for what AI may do."Connect & Discover Bill:LinkedIn: @billgurleyX: @bgurleyFacebook: @bgurleyBook: Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love

An astonishing majority of Americans claim that they hate their job and wish they could do something else. Often though, what might drive our passions is an unknown. How do we find the right path in life and how do we know we are on our way?Joining the Riskgaming podcast this week is Bill Gurley, a legendary venture capitalist who for more than two decades invested at Benchmark in such defining startups as Uber and Zillow. He's just published a new book titled, “Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love.” It's based on his own personal story of how to avoid career regret, of sticking with a job way past the point of boredom.He's joined in conversation by Lux's own Josh Wolfe. The two talk about the book as well as the intersecting points of their long friendship and careers.

In my conversation with Bill Gurley, we explore what it really means to pursue your dream career—without a zero-sum mindset. Bill shares why your peers can become your greatest mentors, how rejection is often a sign of growth, and why continuous learning embracing AI is the key to future-proofing your career.  As a general partner at Benchmark, Bill has influenced transformative companies like Uber, Zillow, OpenTable, Grubhub, Stitch Fix, and Snapchat. In his book Runnin' Down a Dream, he encourages readers to reflect regularly, take courageous leaps, and pay attention to what energizes them outside of work.  "If you've only got one shot then why not do what makes you happy?" Bill asks. To hear Bill's advice on passion, peer mentorship, and building a career with intention, download my podcast interview with Bill!

In this episode, meet professor of medicine Dr. Robert Wachter, journalist Norah O'Donnell, and venture capitalist Bill Gurley. Hear why Robert Wachter chose to narrate his audiobook, learn about the startling realization that inspired Norah O'Donnell to write We the Women, and hear why Bill Gurley wants you to chase your dreams. A Giant Leap by Dr. Robert Wachter https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/776443/a-giant-leap-by-robert-wachter-md/9798217282074/ We the Women by Norah O'Donnell with Kate Andersen Brower https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/746548/we-the-women-by-norah-odonnell-with-kate-andersen-brower/9798217176236/ Runnin' Down a Dream by Bill Gurley https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/769256/runnin-down-a-dream-by-bill-gurley/9798217175208/

Career regret is more common than most professionals admit. In Bill Gurley's survey, 7 out of 10 people said they would restart their careers if given the chance, revealing widespread dissatisfaction with their chosen paths. After decades of working alongside successful founders, Bill distilled what actually leads to meaningful, energizing work into his book  Running Down a Dream, offering a clear path to designing a career you don't want to escape from. Now on Spotify video! In this episode, Bill reveals how to build your dream job and shares what top professionals do differently to create careers that bring both success and fulfillment. In this episode, Hala and Bill will discuss: (00:00) Introduction (02:17) The Career Regret Crisis (06:57) Designing Your Own Career Path (12:53) How Curiosity Over Passion Drives Success (22:10) Bill's Journey From Engineering to Venture Capital (28:45) Mastering Career Fundamentals for Growth (41:34) The Power of Mentors and Peers in Career Development (52:10) Dot-Com Crash Lessons and the AI Wave (54:20) Unit Economics and Business Fundamentals (1:06:39) Smart ROI Decisions for Entrepreneurs (1:16:47) Making Tough Calls in Leadership (1:21:34) Traits of Extraordinary Founders Bill Gurley is a renowned Silicon Valley venture capitalist and general partner at Benchmark, known for early, pivotal investments in companies like Uber, Zillow, and Grubhub. With over 20 years at Benchmark, he is recognized as a top tech investor and the author of the influential blog Above the Crowd. In his new book, Running Down a Dream, Bill breaks down the components of balancing joy with success and identifies the key principles of career fulfillment. Sponsored By: Indeed - Get a $75 sponsored job credit to boost your job's visibility at⁠ Indeed.com/profiting⁠ Shopify - Start your $1/month trial at⁠ Shopify.com/profiting⁠. Spectrum Business - Keep your business connected seamlessly. Visit ⁠https://spectrum.com/Business⁠ to learn more. Northwest Registered Agent - Build your brand and get your complete business identity at⁠ northwestregisteredagent.com/paidyap⁠ Framer - Publish beautiful and production-ready websites. Go to⁠ Framer.com/profiting⁠ and get 30% off their Framer Pro annual plan. Quo - Run your business communications the smart way. Try Quo for free, plus get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to⁠ quo.com/profiting⁠ Working Genius - Discover your natural gifts and thrive at work. Go to⁠ workinggenius.com⁠ and get 20% off with code PROFITING Experian - Manage and cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reduce your bills. See ⁠experian.com⁠ for details. Huel -  Get all the daily nutrients you need with Huel. Grab Huel today and get 15% OFF with my code PROFITING at⁠ huel.com/PROFITING⁠.  Resources Mentioned: Bill's Book, Running Down A Dream: ⁠bit.ly/BGDream⁠  Bill's X (Twitter): ⁠x.com/bgurley⁠  Bill's Website: ⁠abovethecrowd.com⁠  Designing Your Life by Bill Burnett: ⁠bit.ly/BB-DYL⁠  One Up On Wall Street by Peter Lynch: ⁠bit.ly/PL-OUOWS⁠  Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen: ⁠bit.ly/CC-ID⁠  Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey: ⁠bit.ly/MM-GL⁠  Active Deals -⁠ youngandprofiting.com/deals⁠  Key YAP Links Reviews -⁠ ratethispodcast.com/yap⁠ YouTube -⁠ youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting⁠ Newsletter - ⁠youngandprofiting.co/newsletter⁠  LinkedIn -⁠ linkedin.com/in/htaha/⁠ Instagram -⁠ instagram.com/yapwithhala/⁠ Social + Podcast Services:⁠ yapmedia.com⁠ Transcripts -⁠ youngandprofiting.com/episodes-new⁠  Entrepreneurship, Entrepreneurship Podcast, Business, Business Podcast, Self Improvement, Self-Improvement, Personal Development, Starting a Business, Strategy, Investing, Sales, Selling, Psychology, Productivity, Entrepreneurs, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Marketing, Negotiation, Side Hustle, Startup, Mental Health, Career, Leadership, Mindset, Growth Mindset, Business Ideas, Growth Hacks, Workplace, Career Podcast

Bill Gurley is a legendary venture capitalist who has backed companies like Uber, Zillow, and OpenTable. His new book, Runnin' Down a Dream, is a user's manual for figuring out what you actually want and how to go get it. In this conversation, he shares some of his favorite takeaways from the book. Plus, Bill reveals the one skill he desperately wishes he had. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What do most people regret at the end of their careers? According to legendary venture capitalist Bill Gurley, it's not the failures — it's the risks they never took. In this wide-ranging episode of The Puck, Jim Baer sits down with Gurley — longtime Benchmark partner, early Uber board member, and author of Running Down a Dream — for a candid conversation on boldness, bubbles, AI speculation, venture capital cycles, and America's structural challenges. Gurley reflects on: - Why “boldness regret” weighs heavier than failure - How to turn passion into mastery — and why most people don't - The resume arms race and why young people feel trapped - AI: real revolution or speculative excess? (Hint: both) - Venture capital's evolution — from discipline to burn-at-all-costs - Why five-year AI forecasts may set companies up to stumble - Regulatory capture in healthcare and education - State-by-state competition as America's hidden advantage From Austin's music scene to Silicon Valley's capital cycles, Gurley delivers battle-tested insights from decades at the center of tech's biggest waves. If you care about careers, markets, AI, or the future of the U.S. economy, this episode is essential listening.

Bill Gurley is a venture capitalist and longtime general partner at Benchmark, where he has backed companies such as Uber, Zillow, and Grubhub. He began his career as a Wall Street research analyst before transitioning into venture capital, building a reputation for deep, first‑principles analysis of technology businesses. He also writes the blog Above the Crowd, where he publishes essays on the evolution and economics of high technology businesses. His upcoming book, Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love, draws on his eclectic career path to offer a playbook for navigating risk, opportunity, and long‑term fulfillment. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: AG1 https://DrinkAG1.com/tetra ------ Squarespace https://Squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Athletic Nicotine https://www.AthleticNicotine.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

OpeningReformer Machine Workout at YogaSource in Los Gatos. Indiana. Fernando Mendoza is a truly special. Markets1 Year: VGT/QQQ 17%. S&P 500 17%. 2025: 1 yr and 10 yrQQQ: 20.8% and 19.4% = $100k > 620VOO 17.8% and 14.8% = $100k > 400VXUS: 32% and 8.5% Gold and Silver. Great year. 77% and 200%. That's 3x. IBIT and Etha: Down 14% and 10%. NetflixGreat earnings call. 17.6% YoY revenue growth, better than Q4 2024 of 16%. Warner Brothers Acquistion is huge overhang. It will help them: IP. Harry Potter, DC Comics, Game of Thrones, Matrix, Sopranos, Succession, Lord of the Rings. BarbieHBO!LemonadeHIMS. TeslaAutonomous. Finally pulling the driver out in Austin. No longer able to buy FSD outright. Needs to be subscriptionLemonade cutting premiums by 50% if you drive a Tesla with FSD. Important implications for all car insurers.Humanoid RobotsYes Boston Dynamics and many others particularly in China are great, but… Manufacturing, Software, Hardware, ….XAI Will have more AI compute than all others combined in < 5years! From ElonThe Colossus 2 supercomputer for @Grok is now operational. First Gigawatt training cluster in the world. Upgrades to 1.5GW in April.I'm using Gemini and Grok. Perfect combo.  SpaceXSpaceX will be ~99% of all Earth payload mass to orbitI think there will be an allocation to Tesla LT shareholders. Could be $1.5T, but could go to $10T.  PoliticsWealth Tax Wealth Tax. 1 time 5% on Billionairs. No limitations on quantity or $ limit. Play Ben Horowitz on wealth tax. More taxes is not the answer. Eliminate Fraud, waste and abuse!Billionaires ~$8T, everyone else $170t.The two Google founders per Gemini represented 23 percent of the aggregate billionaire wealth in CA. Throw in Peter Thiel and well over 30 percent is goneVideo here. https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/2014785916083020062$23m$125k Rover seizedHome in GreeceMansion in LABalance the Budget State Audit Report hereBudget Summary.05% of Californian's or ~8500 people making over $10m per year pay 25% of the personal income tax liability. 1% of Californian's pay 49% of Personal Income Tax. $54 billion Uhaul Growth Index: Companies moving out of CaliforniaRecommendations:RoganBradley CooperBen Affleck and Matt DamonEthan HawkeTim Ferris and Bill Gurley

Episode 745: Neal and Toby sit down with Bill Gurley, a venture capitalist and author and discuss Bill's new book “Runnin' Down a Dream, How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love”. The guys ask Bill about what practices one should have when pursuing an interest they might wanna make a career. Plus, where would Bill start an AI company, Austin or San Francisco? The 9-9-6 mentality, and more. Check out https://www.public.com/morningbrew for more Subscribe to Morning Brew Daily for more of the news you need to start your day. Share the show with a friend, and leave us a review on your favorite podcast app. Listen to Morning Brew Daily Here:⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.swap.fm/l/mbd-note⁠⁠⁠  Watch Morning Brew Daily Here:⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@MorningBrewDailyShow⁠ Paid endorsement. Brokerage services provided by Open to the Public Investing Inc, member FINRA & SIPC. Investing involves risk. Not investment advice. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool by Public Advisors. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. See disclosures at public.com/disclosures/ga. Past performance does not guarantee future results, and investment values may rise or fall. See terms of match program at https://public.com/disclosures/matchprogram. Matched funds must remain in your account for at least 5 years. Match rate and other terms are subject to change at any time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

OpeningHolidays! . Cats and Dogs and Family. Happy Holidays. New Cat named Timmy. Pure trouble and pure JOY! Coinbase Fraud. Called with automated message asking if I attempted to change my “email contact”. If “no” they said press #1 or otherwise hangup. So I press 1. Some dude is on the line. Says he needs my first and last name to help. I ask him, “how do I even know if you're real…How do I know you're Coinbase?”. He hangs up!!! OMG! Startup InvestingRule #1: Be comfortable losing all the money. Might sting, but should not cause you to lose sleep!MarketsInvestments for our kids!  Brad Gerstner and Michael Dell at White House. Fed Regulation of AI. To prevent a 50 state patchwork, onerous system. Bernie Sanders and other Dems calling for a “halt” on AI and Datacenters!!Markets S&P 500AppleApple head of AI retiring. Apple could partner with Gemini. Also, tech is getting so good that Apple will offer privacy! NetflixNetflix back in pole-position. I think this is “Good”Turnkey studio and ICONIC space. IP. Harry Potter, DC Comics, Game of Thrones, Matrix, Sopranos, Succession, Lord of the Rings. BarbieHBO! TeslaTesla AI ChipsTesla AI Chip and Advanced Engineering from Elon. Elon tweeing/xing tried and trying to help legacy automakers, but they want a pilot program that starts in like 5 years!This video of Optimus jogging is insane. Should double the market cap! TSLZSpaceXWhen Starship is launching several times a day in a few years, SpaceX will be ~99% of all Earth payload mass to orbit, even if the others triple their current launch rate. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1994518037614268565?s=51&t=YUkdoBz4yNifBaQlQUp3-gDrugsDrug TradePolitics https://open.spotify.com/episode/65oG0YARECbXnFCbv2PTZpDavid Sacks is a highly successful business person that is serving our government well and we should all be thankful.From Chamath on the Topic. Tim Waltz Fraud. String on X and And another oneCalifornia Budget Crisis - Wealth Tax200 billionaires are on Zillow right now! RecommendationsMolly's Game (interview on All-In). Movie: The Spy Who Dumped Me. Bill Gurley on ferrisSean RYan Show with Tobi Ludke and JockoEthan Hawk

Bill Gurley (@bgurley) is a general partner at Benchmark, a leading venture capital firm in Silicon Valley. His new book is Runnin' Down a Dream: How to Thrive in a Career You Actually Love.This episode is brought to you by:Momentous high-quality creatine for cognitive and muscular supportOur Place's Titanium Always Pan® Pro using nonstick technology that's coating-free and made without PFAS, otherwise known as “Forever Chemicals”Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail businessCoyote the card game​, which I co-created with Exploding Kittens*Timestamps:[00:00:00] Start.[00:01:43] The book that gave Jerry Seinfeld permission to pursue comedy and inspired Runnin' Down a Dream.[00:03:59] AI bubble or not?[00:06:33] Circular deals and SPV chaos.[00:12:01] Angel investing in the AI era.[00:14:32] Why you should be the most AI-enabled version of yourself, regardless of field.[00:20:47] China deep dive: Ten days, six cities, high-speed trains, and a Xiaomi SU7 factory tour.[00:22:43] Communism misconceptions.[00:25:40] Lei Jun: The Steve Jobs of China.[00:29:17] Jack Ma, ByteDance's invisible CEO, and the risks of prominence in China.[00:32:11] America vs. China (Lawyers vs. engineers).[00:41:01] Keys for US competitiveness.[00:43:47] Bill is bullish on these countries.[00:47:30] Matthew McConaughey's “Don't half ass it” moment.[00:49:45] Runnin' Down a Dream thesis: Helping people pursue X instead of A, B, or C.[00:51:03] The 80,000-hour question.[00:52:47] The self-learning test.[00:56:58] Bob Dylan as music expeditionary.[01:00:27] Go to the epicenter where the action is.[01:10:56] Danny Meyer's pivot.[01:13:30] Working for free.[01:19:37] Never too late: Tito Beveridge started Tito's Vodka at 40.[01:21:51] AI sanity checks.[01:25:59] AI-proof bets.[01:29:13] Sam Hinkie's Moneyball moment.[01:32:37] Competitive strategy, avoiding false failures, and regret minimalization.[01:43:46] Purpose, Progress, and Prosperity — the P3 Policy Institute.[01:47:18] Regulatory capture explained.[01:51:55] Why the IPO market is broken.[02:01:52] Stablecoins putting Visa and Mastercard on notice.[02:03:40] Hopes for Runnin' Down a Dream and parting thoughts.*For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsorsSign up for Tim's email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.Discover Tim's books: tim.blog/books.Follow Tim:Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferrissYouTube: youtube.com/timferrissFacebook: facebook.com/timferriss LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferrissSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This Week In Startups is made possible by:Uber -  http://uber.com/twistPilot - https://pilot.com/twistNorthwest Registered Agent - https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twistToday's show: Boom is still making supersonic jets but ALSO plans to start selling their turbines as power sources for AI data centers. It's a perfect example of problem-solving on the go and how “the best founders… MAKE IT HAPPEN.”Join us for another insightful VC roundtable episode, featuring special guests Bryan Kim (a16z) and David Clark (Ven Cap).They're discussing why Boom's turbine announcement is about necessity AND opportunity PLUS…- Why we might NOT be in an AI bubble after all- Promoting your startup without spending your entire runway on marketing- Why founders need to be RELENTLESS- Bill Gurley's classic response about Uber's Total Addressable Market- AND LOTS MOREBill Gurley's iconic “Miss By a Mile” post: https://abovethecrowd.com/2014/07/11/how-to-miss-by-a-mile-an-alternative-look-at-ubers-potential-market-size/Link to David's LinkedIn (including the AI Bubble chart): https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7404139606398443520/Timestamps:(02:11) It's a VC Roundtable with special guests Bryan Kim (a16z) and David Clark (Ven Cap)(03:07) Why Bryan is leading a Series A into learning app Oboe(06:20) Calculating a startup's value to make everyone “somewhat unhappy”(09:19) How Oboe hits a lot of the same metrics that LAUNCH looks for in startups(11:58) Uber AI Solutions - Your trusted partner to get AI to work in the real world. Book a demo with them TODAY at http://uber.com/ai-solutions(12:57) How funds decide when to cash out and lock in some DPI(18:12) When some LPs want to sell and others want to buy…(19:57) Pilot - Visit https://www.pilot.com/twist and get $1,200 off your first year. (24:07) Is the threat of AI job displacement boosting self-improvement apps?(27:37) Why Jason says we're all standing on the shoulders of Bill Gurley(29:46) Northwest Registered Agent - Form your entire business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Get more privacy, more options, and more done—visit https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twist today!(31:28) Boom's turbine pivot, and why it's about necessity AND opportunity (in that order)(34:14) THE BEST FOUNDERS find a way to make it happen!(39:10) So… are we in an AI bubble? David says NOT NECESSARILY! Checking out the actual metrics.(44:36) We're still SO EARLY in AI… We're still seeing mostly skeuomorphic uses! (It's a real word!)(48:06) William Gibson was right: “The Street finds its own uses for things”(51:11) How AI startups should think about margins(55:58) Why LAUNCH tells founders to “start at the high end”(57:33) Should founders spend a lot of $$$ on marketing in 2025? The panel disagrees!(1:00:05) Momentum vs. Product Release Velocity(1:03:26) It all comes back to the “relentlessness of the founder”(1:05:17) Our panel's hopes and dreams for the coming year*Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.comCheck out the TWIST500: https://twist500.comSubscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp*Follow Lon:X: https://x.com/lons*Follow Alex:X: https://x.com/alexLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm/*Follow Jason:X: https://twitter.com/JasonLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis/*Thank you to our partners:(11:58) Uber AI Solutions - Your trusted partner to get AI to work in the real world. Book a demo with them TODAY at http://uber.com/ai-solutions(19:57) Pilot - Visit https://www.pilot.com/twist and get $1,200 off your first year. (29:46) Northwest Registered Agent - Form your entire business identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Get more privacy, more options, and more done—visit https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/twist today!

Welcome to this classic episode. Classics are my favorite episodes from the past 10 years, published once a month. These are N of 1 conversations with N of 1 people. Sean Feeney makes you want to be a better person, friend, and leader. Sean is the co-founder of Grove House Hospitality Group and the owner of Lilia and Misi, two of New York City's most sought-after restaurants. He left his job in Trading to chase down a dream with Michelin star chef Missy Robbins. Sean leveraged his finance background to write his own rulebook for the restaurant industry, crafting several establishments that now boast several thousand people on the waitlist any given night. His story is as entertaining as it is inspiring. As we go step by step through his business endeavors, he points out all of the times he was told “it's just always been done this way” and how that revealed to him where he could innovate. Sean's restaurants are the perfect example of building a business into the fabric of a community, collaborating with other brands in authentic ways, and staying true to yourself along the way. Please enjoy this awesome conversation with Sean Feeney.  For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page here. ----- This episode is brought to you by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WorkOS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. WorkOS is a developer platform that enables SaaS companies to quickly add enterprise features to their applications. With a single API, developers can implement essential enterprise capabilities that typically require months of engineering work. By handling the complex infrastructure of enterprise features, WorkOS allows developers to focus on their core product while meeting the security and compliance requirements of Fortune 500 companies. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WorkOS.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to Transform your application into an enterprise-ready solution in minutes, not months. ----- Invest Like the Best is a property of Colossus, LLC. For more episodes of Invest Like the Best, visit joincolossus.com/episodes.  Past guests include Tobi Lutke, Kevin Systrom, Mike Krieger, John Collison, Kat Cole, Marc Andreessen, Matthew Ball, Bill Gurley, Anu Hariharan, Ben Thompson, and many more. Stay up to date on all our podcasts by signing up to Colossus Weekly, our quick dive every Sunday highlighting the top business and investing concepts from our podcasts and the best of what we read that week. Sign up here. Follow us on Twitter: @patrick_oshag | @JoinColossus Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (https://thepodcastconsultant.com). Show Notes: (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:03:58) A Chance Encounter with a Michelin-Starred Chef (00:08:52) The Birth of a Culinary Partnership (00:12:49 Embracing the Genius Within (00:16:41) Innovative Approaches to the Restaurant Business (00:24:53) Creating Demand: The Art of Exclusivity (00:28:49) Learning from the Best: Insights from Kith's Success (00:34:21) Defining Exceptional Hospitality (00:44:20) The Power of Customer Relationships in Hospitality (00:52:31) Unlocking Team Potential  (00:53:33) The Philosophy of the Perfect Turn (00:54:05) Balancing Art, Commerce, and Satisfaction (00:56:13) The Impact of Authentic Experiences and Brands (01:03:24) The Evolution of a Hospitality Brand (01:06:38) Community Engagement and the Power of Simplicity (01:24:40) Creative Responses and Business Lessons Learned (01:36:05) Lessons From Working In The Restaurant Industry  (01:43:01) The Kindest Thing Anyone Has Ever Done For Sean

In its first six years from 1998 to 2004, Google built one of the greatest products of all time (and certainly the greatest business of all time) with Search. Then in its next six years from 2005 to 2011, Google built seven (!) more billion+ user products: Gmail, Maps, Drive and Docs, YouTube, Chrome, Android, and Photos — all either started from scratch internally or acquired as startups that were still in their infancy. This six-year period of wild innovation STILL stands unmatched in technology history… no other tech company counts more than four billion+ user products in its portfolio total. And of course, this “Google 2.0” era culminated in the transformation of the very company itself into Alphabet.So the question we answer today is… how did they do it?? And why? What was the strategy that led a once “pure play” search company into such far flung fields as email, mapping, funny cat videos and operating systems? We unpack the brilliant (and sometimes accidental) strategies behind each product, the simultaneous three-front war Google fought against Microsoft, Apple, and Facebook, and the spectacular failure of Google Plus that nearly destroyed the company's culture — before ultimately setting the stage for both Alphabet and the AI revolution to come.Sponsors:Many thanks to our fantastic Summer ‘25 Season partners:J.P. Morgan PaymentsAnthropicStatsigVercelLinks:Sign up for email updates and vote on Fall Season episodes!Jeff Dean and Sanjay Ghemawat New Yorker articleEric Schmidt on stage at the iPhone keynote (!)Bill Gurley's classic “Less than Free” Android postOur recent ACQ2 episode with Bret Taylor and Clay BavorWorldly Partners' Multi-Decade Alphabet StudyEpisode sourcesCarve Outs:Bluey x Camp in NYCSteam Deck vs Switch 2 (Part 2)ClaudeSony RX100 VIICarissimi clothingMore Acquired:Get email updates and vote on Fall Season episodes!Join the SlackSubscribe to ACQ2Check out the latest swag in the ACQ Merch Store!‍Note: Acquired hosts and guests may hold assets discussed in this episode. This podcast is not investment advice, and is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. You should do your own research and make your own independent decisions when considering any financial transactions.

My guest today is Bill Gurley. Bill was the general partner at Benchmark Capital. He joins me for his sixth time on Invest Like the Best with his most comprehensive market analysis yet, examining the realities reshaping venture capital. Bill tackles the uncomfortable math underlying today's venture returns, with companies staying private for far longer. He also walks through why no one—from GPs to LPs to founders—has proper incentives to mark assets accurately, creating a system-wide coordination problem. And, we dig into the investment implications of AI as a platform shift, ranging from evaluating AI revenue quality to international competitive dynamics. Bill offers crucial perspective on playing the game both as it exists today and as it may evolve. Please enjoy my conversation with Bill Gurley. For the full show notes, transcript, and links to mentioned content, check out the episode page⁠⁠⁠⁠ here.⁠⁠⁠⁠ ----- This episode is brought to you by⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ramp⁠⁠⁠⁠. Ramp's mission is to help companies manage their spend in a way that reduces expenses and frees up time for teams to work on more valuable projects. Go to⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ramp.com/invest⁠⁠⁠⁠ to sign up for free and get a $250 welcome bonus. – This episode is brought to you by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ridgeline⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Ridgeline has built a complete, real-time, modern operating system for investment managers. It handles trading, portfolio management, compliance, customer reporting, and much more through an all-in-one real-time cloud platform. Head to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ridgelineapps.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more about the platform. –  This episode is brought to you by⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Arcana. Arcana is the world's most advanced portfolio intelligence platform, trusted by institutional investors managing trillions in AUM — including market neutral, long-short, long-only, and capital allocators. Arcana enables portfolio managers, risk teams, analysts, and CIOs to drill into exposures and idio, construct optimal portfolios, and decompose performance at incredible granularity. Visit arcana.io to request a demo and learn more. ----- Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant (⁠⁠⁠⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com⁠⁠⁠⁠). Show Notes: (00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:05:23) State of the Union: Venture Capital Edition (00:07:58) The Rise of Mega VC Funds (00:09:38) Zombie Unicorns: The Overvalued Giants (00:17:29) The IPO and M&A Market Stalemate (00:24:08) The AI Wave and Its Impact (00:26:03) Private Markets and LP Liquidity Issues (00:29:57) The Future of Capital Markets (00:37:49) Advice for Founders in a Changing Landscape (00:39:27) The High-Stakes Game of Capital Battles (00:41:35) AI: The New General Purpose Technology (00:42:57) Challenges and Opportunities in AI Revenue Models (00:44:37) The Role of Founders in the AI Revolution (00:46:44) The Impact of Time and Liquidity on Venture Capital (00:50:35) Navigating the Future of Venture Capital (00:58:45) International Dynamics in the AI Race (01:13:58) Advice for Founders in the AI Era