Podcasts about covid covid

《馬力歐陪你喝一杯》節目製作即將邁入第九年！喝一杯經典「人物故事訪談」繼續耕耘，陸續探索這世界有趣的靈魂們！ ▲本集內容 我們今天的來賓是徐嘉凱。為什麼今天要邀請他呢？他是一個創業家，是一位導演，其實我自己也是從很年輕的時候就想要創業，所以很佩服畢業就開始創業的嘉凱。 我們今天跟嘉凱聊了很多，而且他創業至今也超過10年，很明顯的看得出來心境上的轉變。他跟我分享了創業的不同階段。而剛好，可以用Covid疫情來分隔，他說Covid-19疫情前2014-2019算第一階段，疫情中算第二階段，疫情後是第三階段。第一階段年輕氣盛，有很多比較驕傲的想法，第二階段因為疫情需要更多思考、沈潛。第三階段疫情後又變得很不一樣，想法也變得很多元。 另外他在2019年推出了第一部電影劇情長片《聖人大盜》，他跟我們分享了整個過程和經歷，直到現在他都描述的徐徐如生，也有很多精彩的故事在裡面，包含了在開拍前臨時需要換人的驚險經歷。 最後我們聊了他現在在做的一些事情，他在創業的管理上面有哪些變化，以及他對於區塊鏈這樣的科技對於影視產業的影響，想法上跟以前又有什麼不一樣？ ▲本集使用的音樂： Impressions (Acoustic) by Robert Alan Dunn Creative Commons CC BY SA 3.0 Robert-dunn-15 – Impressions-acousticSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Dr. Terri Show is presented by Evexias Health Solutions, for more visit: https://www.evexias.com/ --- Hey everybody, welcome back to The Dr. Terri Show! Are you destined to experience long COVID if you've had COVID? What makes some individuals more prone to long COVID than others? In this thought-provoking episode, I'm joined once again by Jim LaValle to explore these critical questions and dive deeper into the mystery of COVID long-haul syndrome. From the role of genetics and environmental factors to gut health and cardiovascular risks, we're uncovering the layers that contribute to long COVID and how proactive measures can make all the difference. This episode is packed with insights to help you take charge of your health, whether you're dealing with lingering symptoms or looking to prevent complications. Here's what we cover in this episode: Understanding long COVID risk: What role do genetics, environmental burdens, and lifestyle choices play? Learn how factors like stress, diet, and past exposures can influence your recovery. Gut health and immunity: Discover how imbalances in the gut microbiome, triggered by COVID, can affect the brain, heart, and overall inflammation in the body. Cardiovascular connections: Uncover why COVID long-haulers are more susceptible to heart issues, from arrhythmias to systemic inflammation. Proactive health strategies: Why regular testing and a shift from reactive to proactive health care are essential for prevention and long-term wellness. Advanced testing insights: What you should request from your health care provider, including advanced lipid panels and specific markers for cardiovascular and metabolic risks. This episode emphasizes the importance of personalized, preventative health care and the need for deeper testing to identify and mitigate risks before they escalate. Stay tuned for the next episode, where we'll focus on actionable steps for preventing and addressing long COVID. From practical lifestyle changes to targeted therapies, we'll give you tools to empower your health journey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Dr. Terri Show is presented by Evexias Health Solutions, for more visit: https://www.evexias.com/ --- Hey everybody, welcome back to The Dr. Terri Show! Is COVID still a thing??? Well we may not be in the midst of a global pandemic, but that doesn't mean that what you are experiencing might not still be COVID related. Today, we're diving into a critical yet often misunderstood topic: COVID long-haul syndrome. Joining me is my friend and expert practitioner, Jim LaValle, to unravel the complexities of this global phenomenon. From lingering symptoms to innovative approaches for recovery, this conversation is packed with insights to empower your health journey. COVID long-haul, or post-acute sequelae of COVID-19, has left many clinicians and patients grappling with unexplained symptoms like chronic fatigue, heart palpitations, brain fog, and even diabetes. But what causes these symptoms, and how can they be addressed effectively? Jim LaValle brings his extensive knowledge and practical solutions to this growing issue. Here's what we cover in this episode: What is COVID long-haul? Learn about the underlying mechanisms, including lingering inflammation, mitochondrial dysfunction, and immune dysregulation, that contribute to long-haul symptoms. The surprising faces of long-haul COVID: We discuss real-life cases, from a young, healthy bodybuilder experiencing heart issues to individuals developing diabetes or recurrent viral infections post-COVID. Why it's not just about being “unhealthy”: Contrary to common belief, long COVID can affect anyone, even those who appear healthy. We explore why relatively healthy individuals are struggling with these unexplained symptoms. The role of spike proteins and inflammation: Discover how lingering spike proteins and chronic inflammation can disrupt your body's ability to recover, leading to long-term issues like heart rhythm abnormalities, gut dysbiosis, and more. A closer look at cancer and chronic disease risks: We discuss the alarming uptick in cancer cases and the potential links to COVID's opportunistic effects on immune function and inflammation. Throughout the episode, Jim and I share personal stories, groundbreaking studies, and practical insights to help you understand and navigate the complexities of long COVID. Whether you're dealing with unexplained symptoms, supporting a loved one, or just curious about this pressing issue, this episode is a must-listen. And don't worry—this is just part one of our conversation! In the next episode, we'll dive into actionable strategies for prevention and treatment. If today's discussion resonated with you, be sure to check out our previous episodes and stay tuned for the follow-up conversation on how to take charge of your recovery from COVID long-haul syndrome. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What is our relationship to the land, to its other-than-human inhabitants, and to the rest of humanity? These are fundamental questions for thinking through how we can transform ourselves in ways that allow a multiplicity of ecologies and human communities to thrive alongside one another. And these questions are not just fundamental to us as individuals—they are essential to how we view our cultures, traditions, institutions, and ways of knowing.Layel Camargo lives at the vibrant intersection of ecological justice, queer liberation, and indigenous culture—a cultural space that offers a distinctive vantage point on how our societies work, while holding enormous potential to both see and reorient our relationships to the land and to one another.Layel Camargo is an organizer and artist who advocates for the better health of the planet and its people by restoring land, healing communities, and promoting low-waste and low-impact lifestyles. Layel is a transgender and gender non-conforming person who is an indigenous descendant of the Yaqui and Mayo tribes of the Sonoran Desert.I met Layel at a climate storytelling retreat in New York City in 2019, where I became a huge fan of their work and of their way of being in the world.Layel is a founder of the Shelterwood Collective, a Black, Indigenous, and LGBTQ-led community forest and retreat center, healing people and ecosystems through active stewardship and community engagement.Our conversation explores the idea of culture as strategy in confronting the climate crisis, diving into Layel's work in video, podcasting, and poetry and the origins of their approach to this work of healing people and planet.You can listen on Substack, Apple Podcasts, and other podcast platforms.Please rate, review, and share to help us spread the word!Layel CamargoLayel Camargo is a cultural strategist, land steward, filmmaker, artist, and a descendant of the Yaqui tribe and Mayo tribes of the Sonoran Desert. Layel is also transgender and non-binary. They graduated from UC Santa Cruz with dual degrees in Feminist Studies and Legal Studies. Layel was the Impact Producer for “The North Pole Show” Season Two. They currently produce and host ‘Did We Go Too Far' in conjunction with Movement Generation. Alongside Favianna Rodriguez and at the Center for Cultural Power, they created ‘Climate Woke,' a national campaign to center BIPOC voices in climate justice. Wanting to shape a new world, they co-founded ‘Shelterwood Collective'. The collective is a land-based organization that teaches land stewardship, fosters inventive ideation, and encourages healing for long-term survival. Layel was a Transformative Justice practitioner for 6 years and still looks to achieve change to the carceral system in all of their work. Most recently, Layel was named on the Grist 2020 Fixers List, and named in the 2019 Yerba Buena Center of the Arts list of ‘People to Watch Out For.'Quotation Read by Layel Camargo“You wanna fly, you got to give up the s**t that weighs you down.” - Toni Morrison, Song of SolomonRecommended Readings & MediaTranscriptIntroJohn Fiege  What is our relationship to the land, to its other-than-human inhabitants, and to the rest of humanity? These are fundamental questions for thinking through how we can transform ourselves in ways that allow a multiplicity of ecologies and human communities to thrive alongside one another. And these questions are not just fundamental to us as individuals—they are essential to how we view our cultures, traditions, institutions, and ways of knowing.Layel Camargo lives at the vibrant intersection of ecological justice, queer liberation, and indigenous culture—a cultural space that offers a distinctive vantage point on how our societies work while holding enormous potential to both see and reorient our relationships to the land and to one another.And besides that, Layel is hilarious.Layel Camargo My passion for humor has come from has been maintained by a lot of data and information that I've gotten around just the importance of people being able to process things through laughter. And that the climate crisis is nothing to make mockery and or to laugh, there's this is very serious. The ways in which our species is kind of being at threat of extinction, and right before our eyes. But I think that as humans, we're so complex and layered, and we're so beautiful in the sense that we get to feel so intensely, and feeling is what motivates us to take action. And laughter helps you process so much data quicker, it helps you be able to take something in, embrace it, release, and then have it make an impression.John Fiege  I'm John Fiege, and this is Chrysalis.Layel Camargo is an organizer and artist who advocates for the better health of the planet and its people by restoring land, healing communities, and promoting low-waste, low-impact lifestyles. Layel is a transgender and gender non-conforming person who is an indigenous descendant of the Yaqui and Mayo tribes of the Sonoran Desert.I met Layel at a climate storytelling retreat in New York City in 2019, where I became a huge fan of their work and of their way of being in the world.Layel is a founder of the Shelterwood Collective, a Black, Indigenous, and LGBTQ-led community forest and retreat center, healing people and ecosystems through active stewardship and community engagement.Our conversation explores the idea of culture as strategy in confronting the climate crisis, diving into Layel's work in video, podcasting, and poetry and the origins of their approach to this work of healing people and planet.Here is Layel Camargo.ConversationJohn FiegeHow you doing?Layel Camargo I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing?John Fiege I'm doing well. I've got this thing in my throat. I, so I'm going to be drinking a lot of tea. And I might have to have a bathroom break. Know, I have forgotten to take my allergy medicine. And here we are. Great. Yeah. So can you start out by telling me where you grew up? And how you viewed your relationship to the rest of nature when you were a kid?Layel Camargo Yeah. Um, I can start off by Yeah. talking a little bit about where I grew up. Yeah, so I grew up on the Mexican border between Tijuana and San Diego. And my upbringing was in this very highly dense migrant community from Latinx to Philippines, because of the proximity to the military base. It was very military towns, pretty much the professions. They're like you're either work for Homeland Security, the military or police. And I didn't really notice what my upbringing was like till I left. But I grew up crossing the border back and forth. My grandmother migrated from the Sonoran Desert, to Tijuana. And that's basically where my mother was born. And she grew. She went to high school in San Diego, which is why I can say I'm an American citizen, but I'm a descendant of the Maya or the uremic tribes, my grandmother said, and then my grandfather said, The yucky tribes of the Sonoran Desert so I think for me, my connection ecologically was like the ocean Because I grew up in a beach city, and then it was also the desert, because of all the stories and my grandmother's connection to sanada. So high, I never felt like I was at home because as a queer person paid never really fit into the conservative nature of San Diego due to how militarized it is, and all this stuff. But it was through a drive, which I took from Northern California, down to Sonora, where my grandmother's family lives, when I drove through the saguaros and Arizona that I remember seeing the Saguaro forests and just like needing to pull over and just like, take them in. And I had this a visceral feeling that I don't think I've ever had before of just like being home. And I think this, this experience was like in 2016 2017. And that's when I realized that, in theory, I was a climate activist, I cared about the planet. But it wasn't until that moment that I was like, oh, what I'm actually doing is like actually fighting for us to return to be in better relationship with the planet. And this is where I belong, this is my source of my route, these trees and this desert. So because of that, and growing up in proximity to the beach, water conservation has always been an area of like passion for me and caring about the ocean, which pushed me to a practice of lowering my plastic consumption and being more mindful of oil consumption. And the desert has always been a source of like grounding in regards to like place and knowing that I come from the earth. So it's kind of like I was gonna say, it's kind of like, I'm from a lot of places, I moved to Northern California in 2006. So I love the forest. But nothing speaks to my heart, like the beach in the desert.John Fiege Well, they have sand in common. Is there? Is there a tension between the ocean pulling you in the desert pulling you or is it? Is it a beautiful harmony?Layel Camargo It's a bit of a tension. But I would say that in my body, it feels the same. They both dehydrate me and over, over like it's just a lot of heat, typically. So yeah, that it's different for Northern California beaches, because they're a little bit more Rocky and more cold. You have to wear more layers. Right? definitely like to where I grew up, it's it is warm, the sandy ness. That's a great connection, I definitely need to make that a little bit more concrete.TotallyJohn Fiege cool. Well, can you tell me more about the path you took from the neighborhood where you grew up in San Diego, to studying at UC Santa Cruz and what that experience was like for you?Layel Camargo Yeah, I, I went. So I grew up in a home where there was a lot of violence, which is very common in a lot of migrant-specific and indigenous communities. And I kind of came into my teenage years, like really realizing that I was different, but I didn't know how when it kind of got summarized in college around my queerness my sexuality and my gender, but just feeling this need of like needing to leave. It just didn't make sense for me to be there. And with that being said, I had a wonderful community. I still have quite a few friends in San Diego that I keep in touch with my sisters live there. And I was actually just started last weekend. So I, when I was in San Diego, I think a lot of my trauma responses of like, just ignore what doesn't make sense and just keep moving forward was how I kind of functioned. And that race. And I loved it, I succeeded at it. I've actually realized that I'm a performance artist because of that upbringing. Like I, you know, was captain of the water polo team. I was president of my senior class, I was featured in newspapers for my swimming. I was a competitive swimmer for 10 years. I I did, I did a you know, a good job. I had advanced placement classes and honors classes and I was well rounded but in the inside, I just didn't feel like I belonged. So I picked UC Santa Cruz to go to college because it was the farthest University and the University of California system that had accepted me. And they went and I didn't know what I was getting myself into. I visited the campus like two to three weeks before I had to actually be there to live on campus. Bass. And when my dad drove me, drove me up with my whole family drove me up and they left me they were like, are you sure you want to say I'm like, I got this, like, it was all redwoods. So it was definitely like, we went down to the local store. And it was like all these like hippie dreadlock, folks. And I was like, I don't even know what I got myself into. But I'm getting this degree, so we're good. And it was a big culture shock, I think for a lot of black and brown and indigenous youth when they have to leave their communities to attend. What is like better economic opportunities outside of them it is it's, it's more than just having to adjust, it's having to really like, Oh, I had to let go of everything I knew. And in order for me to take the most out of college, and I was fortunate enough that I had a container a university is like a container for young folks that I wasn't having to leave for work or opportunities. And so I fully immersed myself, and it allowed me to be able to identify myself sexually and through my gender, and a gave me solace, when you know, my family rejected me for coming out. And I think that I'm so fortunate that I had that experience. And then I also was able to gain double bachelor's when feminist studies and legal studies which allowed me to have some upward mobility that my family hadn't had, traditionally I was, I am the first person in my whole family to attend a four year university after high school. So I'm definitely very grateful that that path took me there. And at this point, I feel like it was not only good for me, but it was good for my whole family for me to have taken that journey.John Fiege And did you come out to them? In college or before college?Layel Camargo in college? Yeah, I was my second year, I had my first girlfriend. And I was a Resident Advisor, always I'm always trying to be the overachiever. So I was like Resident Advisor of my college, I was like, involved in every club, I was part of the dance team. And, you know, my mom called me, I just decided to actually move in with my girlfriend the following quarter. And she was like, What are you doing? I was like, Oh, my girlfriend's house. And she was like, why do you have to tell me those things. And I'm just like, because I'm not gonna lie to you. And she was like, I know, you're gay, but I just don't need you to rub it in my face. And I was like, then I guess we can't talk. And so we didn't talk for three months. And then she called me It's, it's, it's hard, you know, like, going to college is hard, especially when I went to very marginalized public schools before that. So I was struggling academically. And my solace was, like, being involved on campus, like to meet some social needs. And I was in, I was in a retention program for black and brown youth from urban communities. So that helped a lot. But I, I, my mom kind of rupturing that, really. I didn't realize what the impact was until probably a quarter the quarter into after that. And she called me three months later, and was like, so are you not gonna talk to me? And I was like, you're the one that doesn't talk to me. And she was like, well, let's just let's just try to make this work. And so we, you know, it took probably five to six years for my family to kind of fully integrate my, you know, my, my lifestyle as they, as they call it. The magic word of magic word. Yeah.John Fiege Yeah, wow. Well, you know, that's just what you need, right in the middle of college trying to adapt to, you know, crazy new culture and world is for your family to reject you.Layel Camargo Yeah, yeah. It's definitely one of those things that like a lot of queer LGBTQ folks. I, I feel like it's so normalized to us, right? And it's just like, well, when you come up, just expect to lose everything. And I think it is it now until I'm like, in my 30s, that I realized how painful that is, and how, like, it's just like, you know, one of the core things I think, as a human species is to know that you belong somewhere. And if you don't belong at home, then where do you belong? And I think for many of us, we've had to go through that unconsciously, without really thinking through that we're seeking to belong. And this theme of belonging has been something that's been coming up as I'm I navigate like, my professional career now is that like, I really do want people to feel like they belong somewhere. And the only thing I feel like makes sense as we all belong to the planet. We all belong to the same descendants and how we got here as a species and that I think that's being rejected from my family allowed me to be like weird do I belong? And so I fortunate that I had a best friend who was also queer. I had my queer community I had student governments and students social organizing. And then when I graduated, I was like, wait, like, Where else do I belong? So I went to my natural habitats like to the beach, and I picked up surfing again and scuba diving. And then it was like, Oh, I actually like I belong to the earth. Like, that's where I belong.John Fiege That's beautiful. Yeah. I love that. Oh, I am hearing some background noise.Layel Camargo Is it audio? Or is it just like,John Fiege people laughing?Layel Camargo It's my partner's on an Akai here, I'm going to shoot her a quick text. She like gets really loud because she gets so excited. Just going to share a quick text.John Fiege So before coming to climate justice work, you worked as an organizer with the Bay Area transformative justice collective. Can you tell me how your work in transformative justice informed your understanding of the climate crisis and how you approach ecological concerns?Layel Camargo Yeah, so I I organized with transformative justice for about six years. And then I you know, for folks who don't know, transformative justice is an alternative response model to violence, harm and hurt. And so similar to restorative justice, which works with the carceral system, so police, judicial systems, etc. to reform in order to help alleviate some of the biases that exists in the systems, transformative justice, as there's those systems actually don't serve certain communities like migrants, folks like that are trans, just the way that those systems just inherently violate certain people who are not included in our society fairly, was like, transparent justice exists to serve folks who cannot access or choose not to access or use the carceral system. So if you will, if you believe in defunding the police, and let's say you're sexually assaulted, you're probably not going to call the police for a rape kit, because there's probably ways that you've experienced those systems as harmful or violent. So when I started organizing were transferred to justice the spoke to me as somebody who had just come out as trans, somebody who grew up in a mixed status family, have relatives who have been deported. And I realized, like, Oh, it's actually worth investing in alternative models, besides the police. In order for us to get our needs met when crisises do happen, because they happen to all of us. And I was in it for six years, you know, we had built up, I had built a great capacity to work with people who had caused harm people who are caused domestic violence, sexual assaults and transforming their behavior and working towards reparation of relationships and or just like helping victims be able to move on after something like that happens. And it's it wasn't an easy task. And what we would come back to is we would spend like the first front of the months, trying to make sure that people's basic needs were met in order for them to slow down enough to process what had just happened. And basic needs included food included shelter, if they lived near, you know, a toxic site, what was infringing on their health, making sure that they had access to health coverage or health benefits. And that was about 60% of what we're doing was making sure that we could get the basics kind of stable so that they could jump into really honoring what it was a justice look like for them. And in doing this a handful of times, not too many, I will say I didn't think thankfully, we had a team. And so I did wasn't always having to handle everything. And we, the experiences that I did have, I was like, man, if people just had, like, a healthy environment where having to fight for housing wasn't a thing. Like we could just actually say, this is where I was born, this is where I belong, and I'm in relationship with the land. And that's how I feed myself, I clothe myself, like all these things that are kind of like indigenous traditional ways, then people could actually solve a lot of their crisis. He's in the moment without having it to be delayed years or having to rely on for it to get outsourced through the carceral system in order for them to feel like they get a minuscule amount of justice. And so I started to just be more cognizant of the way that we interact with the planet and how are everything from our legal structures to our economic structures are just completely devastating. Our environment that have led for us not to have good air quality for us not to have good clean water for us not to feel like we've belong to the earth that is right beneath us that we like, are in relationship with, with the rest of you know, most of our lives. And I, at the time I was living in West Oakland and I had just looked into the air quality report in the area I lived in, and I had the worst air quality in the whole Bay Area. And I started noticing my dog started developing like little spots on her skin, I started having like a lot of chronic coughing. And I was looking at how much money I was making. And so at the time, I was doing a lot of our pop ups, I was really passionate about zero waste, I cared about veganism, a lot of it was through the planet, and it just slowly started shifting away from Yes, I care about how we respond to violence and harm and all of that. And I want us to have alternatives that meet the needs of folks who fall through the waistline of certain systems. And at the same time, we don't even have clean water to come home to to drink when something violent happens, like we have to go buy it from, you know, a grocery store. Most of us don't even test our tap water anymore, because it's just consistently, we just grew up thinking that it doesn't, it's dirty, it's gross, it's non potable, so Right, right. I think at that moment, my heart just completely was like, I want to dive into this work 100% I want to fight for people to have clean air, like if you can't breathe, then you can't, you can't even do a lot, a lot of things. And so many black and brown people who grew up in rural communities have high rates of asthma have like low life expectancy because of air pollution, to you know, the logistics industry etc. And I just kind of fell in with all my heart in like, if I'm, if I'm against plastic put which at the time I was, like vegan for the planet and vegan for my health. And I was also really passionate about reducing plastic use. And I was like, if these are two things that I care about, I want to do it at a larger scale. So it meant that I had to really make those connections of if I want to end gender based violence, if I want to end large forms of violence, I have to start with the one common thing we have that we're constantly extracting and violating, which is the earth. And I think that that led me towards climate justice, because that is the most critical environmental crisis that we're in at this moment.John Fiege So what is the climate crisis? What what what causes is how do you how do you think about culture as a source of power and strategy for climate crisis?Layel Camargo Yeah, I mean, I this is this is really, you know, this, that this is what I do for my life is I spent the last 7 to 8 years really strategizing around what are the cultural shifts that are needed in order for us to be able to be in right relationship with the planet where things like the climate crisis are not happening, so that we can have an economic system and a political system that is serves the planet and the needs of our of us living and thriving, not surviving, which is I think, what we're stuck in as a global society now. And the, we have like quite a few things to kind of look at historically. And I think that there is a dominance of, which is we now know, it is like white supremacy, which is the idea that one group of human is like better than another group of human, and that because of that, everybody else needs to conform to the languages, the culture, the food, the clothes, the housing structures, that are pervasive, and that in, you know, the Euro centric way of living, and that has created a monoculture that is now spread at a global scale. And it's even because it's an economic sister in their economic system. Now we have global stock markets. Now we have the extraction at a global scale, for the sourcing of consumer goods that are all homogenous, and there. There's just one kind of how we do things. And I think the crisis that we're in is the ways that human have removed ourselves from our natural biodiversity relationships with our ecological systems. And then as removing ourselves we have are allowed for the rupture of a relationship that is very needed, which is if we're not integrated into the trees that are natural in our environment into trimming certain invasive species and supporting other biodiverse relationships around us, then we're crippling the ability of the soil to be healthy of the air to have the most amount of oxygen Have you Now we know that we need to be trapping carbon at such high rates. And I think that with a crisis that we're in is that we've allowed and have fallen victims to white supremacy, which was facilitated by colonization, that I, you know, that dominance of one group of people in the way of existing, and I think that's where we're at. I mean, if you look at the kelp forests, the kelp forest needs the otters, they need the, the sea urchins. But when you remove the otters and the sea urchins, you know, are not being preyed upon at a normal scale. And that's, you know, we're connecting it to white supremacy, let's assume that the sea urchins are like the dominant and because they're, they're the ones that ruled the kelp species are starting to be eradicated, and some of them are becoming a threat of extinction. And without a healthy kelp forests, you don't have healthy oxygen and maintenance of the acidification in the ocean, which, you know, couple that with global warming, and you basically have the rapid eradication of so many other natural ecosystems in the ocean that we need to survive. And so when you have one species dominating over another, it leads towards a crisis. So I think we're in a imbalance of relationships because of, of white supremacy. And that's what's causing the climate crisis we have. We have a monoculture. And so just as you look at mono cropping, as you look at anything that eradicates the health of the soil, because it doesn't have the reciprocal relationships that it needs from other crops, and are the resting in order for the soil to be healthy. This might not be speaking to everybody who's listening. But it makes sense that like, Yeah, definitely. The environment crisis is a symptom of Yes. Oh, the climate crisis is a symptom of a larger systemic problem.John Fiege Yeah. And in so many ways, white supremacy was created by colonialism, like, white supremacy is the cultural system that in some ways had to emerge to justify the political and economic brutality of colonialism. You know, it was a it was it was a way of organizing and understanding the world that justified these terrible things that were happening. And they're so it goes so much hand in hand.Layel Camargo Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I could talk about this for hours, because there's just so many ways in which we can break it down to the minute level. And then there's so many ways that we can think about solutions. And a lot of my my work and my passion is really bringing as much power as I can to black, indigenous and people of color. Because the retention of culture, language, and different ways of engaging with the world, everything from how we grow our food to how we dress and what we celebrate. And where we honor is what's going to help us be more resilient towards the impending and the realism of what the climate crisis means to a lot of our communities.John Fiege Yeah, totally. Yeah. And you're you're living and working at this really interesting intersection between ecological justice, queer liberation and indigenous culture. Can Can you talk a bit about the intersections of your identity and cultural background and their importance to you and how you orient yourself to this work?Layel Camargo Yeah, definitely. So as I mentioned, I'm a descendant of the Yaki and the Mio tribes in the Sonoran Desert. And I didn't really realize how much this matter to me, I think till about like five to six years ago, because I grew up because of the borders. Technically, I'm Mexican descent, and Mexican American salesperson in this country. But the Mexican government is similar to what we're talking about white supremacy was created by European settlers and, and a hybrid of mixture of stealing of indigenous cultures. And there are so many subgroups of different indigenous cultures. And my heritage is that both my grandfather and my grandmother's tribe as they were nomadic, and they used to migrate up and down the Sonoran Desert, before the border was there from seasonally for survival. And there's so many ways that like food that we eat, how we dress, how we talk that I didn't realize like, Oh, that makes me so much more than just Mexican American. It makes me more than just Latinx. And I think my background and being in such close proximity to immigration and the necessity of immigration or to survive because my grandmother came to Tijuana because it was industrialized and she needed work. And so when they migrated, they like left everything behind. And they never went back. Like, I think so many people leave their home, thinking that they're going to go back and they don't, their children are born in different places. And eventually, that led me to be born in a different country. And so because of that background, I am so keen to issues around native sovereignty and land back here in the United States is like the retention of keeping people in the place of their origin is a climate solution. It's a way of keeping that ancestral knowledge in the place that is needed. I mean, here in Northern California, we look at the wildfire crisis, and it's due to climate change. And it's also due to the lack of forest management, that our indigenous relatives that are native to that area have been robbed of the opportunity to maintain those forests at the scale, which is needed in order to adapt and prepare for wildfires. Yeah,John Fiege yeah, with with the prescribed burning, and all that maintenance that used to happen. That was invisible in so many ways to the European colonists, they didn't even understand that that was going on, or how it worked.Layel Camargo Yeah, and I feel like, you know, it goes back to the monoculture. And I think, because I have indigenous ancestry, because I understand the nature of needing to migrate. And the realities of migrant experience, I think I feel so passionate about keeping people in their place of origin as much as possible, and allowing for people to move freely when they have to. And I think as as the climate crisis gets worse, I started to realize just what a disservice we have made by instilling borders by having governments that have been so gatekeeping and operating off of scarcity, that we've kind of mandated a world where people can move freely people, and people have to leave their place of origin. And that these two paradox that we exist in, is creating the dehumanization of a group of people that if you cannot sustain yourself in your place of origin, because of global extraction, by the way, because of environmental degradation and the economic viability of your area, and how that creates wars and mass extraction, that that is why people migrate. But yet those same people who are creating those systems that make it difficult for you to stay in your place of origin have also created borders to not let you move freely. That paradox to me is also part of this climate crisis as because many of us are going to have to leave john, at some point, there's going to be floods, there's going to be hot water, we're experiencing a drought prices in California, I'm actually living between northern California and Southern California already. And a lot of it is because of the wildfires and my family's down here. And my family's at threat of sea level rise by living in San Diego, which San Diego filed a lawsuit against Exxon and Chevron. And I think one or two other oil companies is we're all we're all existing now in this global climate crisis, that it's not quite in our face every day, but we feel it seasonally now, so we're gonna have to be able to move. Right? So yeah, and last to say is like similar to my cultures I have I lived with an end an endocrine illness. And so air pollution is something that could severely impede my ability to reproduce my ability to function. At this point, I spend about four to five days a month in bed, working from bed, and I'm fortunate enough that I get to work remotely. But for a lot of people, we're going to see more and more ways in which the mass destruction of the planet which has led to the climate crisis is how we become to adopt ways of having different abilities or not being able to live our day to day function. So yeah, the intersecting points are just, they're overwhelming. And I think a lot of us are starting to feel that more as things start to kind of get a little worse.John Fiege Right, right. Yeah, I was talking to, to my partner the other day, she was she was talking to a fellow activist about this idea of ableism. And how, you know, so much of the discourse around it is you know, what are your abilities and, and this, this person was talking about how it it's how unstable that is. Like you can be able bodied today and tomorrow, you can be not able bodied in the same way. Because of, you know, like you say the changing air quality or something happens, or you just you're getting old, or you get sick. And it's one of those things that we've so ignored as a culture of what, what ableism really means about our assumptions about the world.Layel Camargo And like the economic viability and how our economic system is just so dependent on us being fully productive 24 seven, which I made a video on this called The Big Sea, which talks about the intersecting points of labor and how the labor crisis is actually the root of our climate crisis. Because if we can have people have a bigger imagination around how they can use their bodies, to serve their own needs, instead of serving the needs of corporate interests, how that would actually alleviate a lot of pressure on the planet. And that that would potentially lead to our most successful outcomes in regards to the climate crisis.John Fiege Yeah, totally, totally. Well, can you tell me about decolonizing conservation in the environmental movement and what that looks like to you?Layel Camargo Yeah, so I, I started during the beginning of the pandemic, I started a nonprofit called shelterwood collective, which is black and brown and indigenous queer folks who are aiming to steward land at the time, I was aiming to sort of land a month ago, we acquired a 900 acre camp in cassada, California, and Northern California and our team is about conservation efforts, specifically with forest resiliency against wildfires. Taking Western Western practices of conservation, mixing them with indigenous practices that are similarly to conservation. And I feel like when we think about conservation efforts, a lot of them have been dictated by European ways of thinking through conserving natural environments, which a lot of it is like humans are bad, nature must be left uncared for. And this does such a disservice because our indigenous ancestors knew that in order for a forest to be thriving, we needed to be in relationship with it, we needed to monitor monitor it, if there was a fun guy or a virus that was spreading their disease, that we could actually help it, he'll help trees, he'll help it spread less, if there was fires that were coming that we could trim, and tend and do controlled burns, if there was, you know, sucks anything happening where a species was struggling, that we could help support its growth and its population by you know, hunting its predators. And so I think that, that is the challenge between indigenous conservation efforts are traditional ways of just being in relationship with the natural environment and conservation is the western conservation is that we have been so removed from what it means to protect water systems, what it means to protect forests, that now we have a crisis of mismanagement we have and that more and more countries are adopting European Western perspectives because of the dominance that white supremacy has instilled that there are certain group of people that know more than we do. And that's just that's created, at least for me feels very heavy on when it comes to wildfires. There is certain areas in Northern California where there have been residential communities that have been built on wildfire lines that we know now, indigenous people knew that like every 30 years, for every 50 years, there would be a wildfire that would run through that area. And now that we're not that it's getting hotter, the gap of that time is getting shortened. And also that we're realizing that the years, hundreds of years of mismanagement, and lack of tending has led to also these extreme wildfires, that's now causing casualties outside of wildlife. And I feel like conservation needs to evolve. I think that there needs to be more understanding around the harm that Western conservation has done to not only the ecosystems but to the people who have traditionally been keeping those ecosystems. And I do feel like it's like it's evolving. I just think that it's not evolving as fast as we need. And unfortunately, with the climate climate crisis, we're gonna have to really come to recognize what do we need to move really fast on on what can wait because it just feels like Everything's urgent, we need to save the oceans as much as we need to save the forest as much as we need to Save the Redwoods as much as we need to take the rain forests and it just feels like and and that is like the natural environment, then we have like the growing list of extinction, threats of extinction for certain animals. And I think that I don't know why just came to my head. And then you have people like Bill Gates who want to eradicate a whole mosquito species. So it just feels like we're gonna have to pick and choose our battles here. And I do feel like coming to reckoning around the harm that this pervasiveness in western conservation, which isn't the idea that sometimes we are harmful to, you know, our natural ecosystems isn't a bad one. Yeah, we are. But how we got here was by completely removing ourselves and not knowing how to take care of those ecosystems, had we been in a relationship with them for the last 100 years, maybe we wouldn't be so wasteful, maybe we would have caught air pollution sooner than then our body is telling us, hey, we don't like this, this is bad, we're gonna die sooner if you keep doing this. And I think that that is a disservice. So it's beautiful to see more forest schools popping up for young people. It's beautiful to see more conservation groups trying to bring in indigenous leaders into the conversations. But I do feel like that overall idea needs to shift. And I also think that the land back movement, which is returning national parks back to indigenous hands, is going to help alleviate some of those major tensions that do not honor that certain people have been doing this for hundreds of years. And if we don't return it in this generation, we just run the risk of losing more language, more culture and more practices that we need at a larger scale.John Fiege Yeah, in protecting ecosystems is just not a complete picture of everything that's needed. Like as you say, it's important on some level, but it's it's not it's not a whole, it's not a whole understanding of of the problem or how to address it. There reminds me I was I was just reading or rereading a bit of Robin wall kimmerer book braiding sweetgrass, and she talks, she talks about this very issue a bunch about, you know, sweet grass in particulars is something where there's this, this back and forth relationship between humans and nature. And she talks about teaching one of her University classes up here in New York, and asking them at the beginning of the semester, you know, whether people are bad for the environment, and almost everybody says yes. And we alsoLayel Camargo have this this perception of we are bad. Right?John Fiege Yeah. Yeah, this Western guilt is pervasive in that as well. Which is,Layel Camargo which is facilitated by religion? Yes, religion has a very good job of making us feel like we are horrible for everything that we have sent us that we need to repent for our whole existence as like, going from embryo to sperm is actually a sin itself. So we're born with so much already on our shoulders.John Fiege I was gonna say Catholic guilt, but I feel like at this point, it's so much broader than that. Yeah, it is. So you work with the Center for cultural power. And, and one of the main projects you've done with them is climate woke. And I'd like to start by saying how much i'd love the artwork of the logo. It says climate woke. And it's in, in the style of this fabulous flashback 1980s airbrushed t shirts, with, you know, rainbow colors and sparkles. And it feels like there's so much meaning embedded in the artwork. And I wondered if you could tell me about climate woke, how the project emerge, but also like how this logo artwork reflects what this project is.Layel Camargo Yeah, so we when we started thinking about what climate woke would be, we didn't know what's going to be called climate woke it was through several meetings with different community partners, different funders and other stakeholders, where we kind of discussed that we wanted a unifying symbol for all the communities that we had been meeting and we kind of landed that we wanted something to look good to represent black Dan Brown young people between the ages of 16 to 25, something that was appealing that somebody would wear with pride. And, you know, at the time, there was a lot of like, different stuff coming up around the importance of wokeness. The it wasn't used as how we use it now, which is like political correctness. It's, it's, it's not where it is now. And so we decided to kind of ride on the, the term itself climate woke, which talks about uses black vernacular very intentionally that this is a racialized issue. And we spoke with several leaders in the black community, and at the time, it felt like it made sense. And, and so we kind of quickly were like, this makes sense kind of work. We want people to wake up to a climate crisis, but also be like down and enjoy it. And that it's different than this doom and gloom narrative that we constantly see when it comes to the environment. As it is kind of depressing when you think about it. But so we wanted it to feel like inviting. And at the time, which I think was like 2017 2018. All these like 90s was like coming back. So we sat with like two or three potential designers, and we didn't really like what we saw. And then it was heavy and agile that he Guess who is kind of a co creator of this. Also, like a globally recognized artist who was like, hold on, I got this and just like hopped on her computer through some colors, did some and we were like, We love it. Like we just love it. We wanted it to be bright. We wanted it to be inviting. And I feel like we've been successful just two weeks ago actually got a text from my executive producer who works on the planet. Well, content, it was like to send a photo of like, I believe it was a young male of color about 21 or 22 years old wearing a climate woke t shirt. And she was like, do you know where that's from? And he was like, No, I have no idea. And I was like, that's how, you know, we succeeded. Because we popularize something, we made it look so good. People don't necessarily need to make the connections, but they'll be promoting our work. And I'm sure and I get so many compliments when I wear t shirts and sweaters. And so she she told him to look up the videos. And you know, she sent me the photo. And she's like, we've I think we've succeeded. And I was like, I think we succeeded, I think we have you know. But at this moment, we are considering evolving the terminology because it doesn't feel as honoring. And we definitely are very sensitive to the fact that we use black vernacular intentionally. And it's time to kind of give it back and think through like what other ways can we popularize other terms to kind of help. It's about it's about to help kind of build the community because it was about building a group of people kind of drawing in a certain community that wouldn't necessarily be about it. And I feel like that to me was like a, we did it. We did it.John Fiege Yeah, it's it's it's definitely one of those terms that the the right has co opted and really done a number on they. Yeah, they're they're good at stealing those terms and turning them on their head. And usually, honestly, as a as a weapon back the other direction. Can you turn down your volume just to hear again, just noticing when you get excited? I get excited so much. Alright, how's that? Right? Great. Yes. So in a couple of your videos, you talk about what being climate milk means to you. And you say it means one, standing up for communities of color and communities most impacted by climate change, to complicating the conversations on climate in the environment. And three, doing something about it. Can you take me through each of these and break them down a bit?Layel Camargo Yeah, so the first one is, can you repeat it again, that's the firstJohn Fiege standing up for communities of color and communities most impacted by climate change,Layel Camargo right? That's right. Yeah, I've said it so much. And we actually haven't even recorded anything because of the pandemic. So I'm like, I haven't said it in a while. Yeah, standing up for communities of color. I think that that one to me specifically spoke to that. We need black, brown and indigenous people to feel protected and seen when it comes to the climate and environmental crisis. And that's everything from activating people in positions of power to empowering the people who come from those communities to know that this is an intersectional issue. I think that the climate crisis traditionally was like a lot of visuals of melting ice caps, a lot of visuals of the polar bears and you It's interesting because as we're getting more people narrative, I feel like the, we need to get a little bit more people narrative. And we need to return those images a little bit back, because the IPCC report has just been highlighting the rapid rates in which we were losing ice. And I think that when I initially thought of this at the time, there wasn't highlights of how indigenous people were protecting the large scale biodiversity that we have on the planet. There wasn't stories of, you know, urban, black or brown youth trying to make a difference around solutions towards climate change. And so I kind of made it my purpose that climate woke represent those demographics that we that I was important for me that black, brown and indigenous people of color were at the center of the solutions. And the complicated conversations and do something about it was that I actually feel like we have a crisis of binary versus complexity in our society. And I think that how we've gotten into this climate crisis is because everything's been painted. So black and white for us, that if you want a job, you have to be harming the planet, if you want to be unemployed, then. And then like all these hippies that are fighting to save the trees, they're taking away your job, you know. So I feel like there's so many ways in which our trauma responses just look for the patterns have been used against us. And it just felt really important for me, that people feel comfortable to complicate as much as possible, where we're gonna need different angles and different ways of looking at solutions that we need to embrace experimentation, where we need to embrace failures, and we need to really let go of these ideas that technology is going to come in and save us technology is a big reason why we got into this mess. And so I think that complicating the conversation to me was about this is like, if you are black, brown, indigenous, and you want to be a part of the climate crisis, but you have no way of integrating yourself besides talking about gender oppression, go for it, look at look at the leaders in this movement, and look at how many women are fighting and protecting, you know, at a larger global scale that don't get the visibility that they deserve. So I feel like that was my aim is to really invite that complexity. And then let's do something about it is that I don't want things to get stuck on the dialog. One of the biggest failures of the United Nations when addressing these crisises is that they don't have global jurisdiction. So they cannot actually mandate and or enforce a lot of these, it's usually done through economic influence, or like if one if we can get a first world to sign on to a certain agreement, then hopefully, they'll all do it. But then who ends up in implementing it, usually it's not the United States and Europe is not the first one to do it. And yet, we are the biggest global polluters on almost every sector you can think of. And I think that the do something about it is, for me a call to action, that we can talk about this, we can try to understand carbon emissions, methane emissions, global greenhouse, carbon markets, carbon, sequestering drawdown methods, we can talk about it. But if we're not doing it, putting it to practice while integrating these other two points, which is centering communities of color, and embracing the complexity of that, then it's nothing, it's pointless. We're just we're just allowing corporations to keep exploiting the planet and governments can keep, you know, sitting back and saying that they're doing something because they're convening people without actually regulating and putting down their foot for us. So, yeah, I think it was trying to summarize just my general feelings of this movement and the ways that there's been just lack of opportunities by not centering certain other people or allowing there to be more complexity.John Fiege Yeah, there's, I find, watching how those un meetings go down. So frustrating. Yes, just, you know, Time after time. It's just maddening. I'd have a hard time working in that space.Layel Camargo Yeah, I think I was fortunate enough to take I voluntarily took like a law class at pace, Pace University, pace law University, and one of the classes was United Nations policy, and so I got to witness the sub All meetings before that big meeting where Leonardo DiCaprio came out and said that we had a climate crisis, which everybody googled what the climate crisis was, I think it was called climate change. It was like the most time climate change was googled in the history of mankind. And I was sitting in those meetings and just seeing how it really is just a lot of countries just try not to step on each other's toes, because relationships translate into the economic sector, that I'm like, wow, y'all, like legit, don't care about the people you're representing?John Fiege Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, I wanted to talk a bit about what environmental justice means to you. And I thought we could start with your video called a power to rely on. And in your crudest, you include a statistic in the video that says in the US 75% of all houses without electricity, are on Navajo land. And, and then one of the people you interview in the video with Leah, John's with a group called native renewables, says, whoever controls your water and your power controls your destiny. And that's really powerful statement. Can Can you talk a bit about your experience working on this video, and how it impacted your thinking about environmental justice?Layel Camargo Yeah, so I, I realized that I'm really passionate about renewable energy and alternatives to energy capturing, probably through working on this video. And when we were first thinking about what themes we were going to cover, that's usually how I approached most of the climate world videos as I tried to talk to a few community partners. But mostly, I just do a lot of like, cultural observation, just like what are some of the themes that feel that are kind of resonating for people outside of the sector. So what's resonating for folks outside of the environmental justice world, and, you know, land back native sovereignty is something that's been popularized, especially after the Standing Rock camp, the no dapple camp, and I was noticing that it was kind of dwindling down. But a lot of data was coming up around the fact that a lot of indigenous communities are either sitting around and or holding and protecting 80% of the global biodiversity. And so something that how I approached this video was I wanted to show the native sovereignty piece with the land back as well as my passion for alternatives to our current energy use. And what Haley Johns is somebody who was recommended to me by Jade bug guy who's also featured in the videos, a dear close, like cultural strategist, filmmaker, co conspire in the sector. And she would I had initially approached her and said, I want ndn collective, which is what she works to kind of help us think through the script. And she said, Yeah, we're down and like, we trust you, like, we know you're gonna get the story, right, but we're down. And so it was, it was very easy for us to start with that. And then when I was like, Who do I talk to? They're like, you need to talk to a hayleigh. And I was like, Alright, let's talk to a healer. And so I flew out to Arizona, just to have a scout meeting with her, which I felt like I was chasing her down, because we didn't know she was going to be in Flagstaff, or if she was going to be near Phoenix, like we didn't know. So we were flying in. And we were like, Where are you today? She's like, I'm at my mom's house. I'm with my mom at this hotel. And we're like, Alright, we're coming through. So it felt very, like family off the bat, which now she has been nominated for I forget the position, but it's the internal affairs of Indian energy, energy efforts and some sort. So she's she's doing it at a federal level now. And when I was when I was working on this video, and I had talked to her and I interviewed her as she was giving me a lot of these numbers, and I just realized that, you know, the irony of this country is just beyond what we could imagine. You have a lot of these coal mines that help fuel some of the larger energy consuming cities and in the United States, like Vegas, like la that just consume energy at such high rates that are being powered by coal mines in Navajo or near Navajo Denae reservations. And yet, I was hearing about what halos program and her efforts were just trying to get funding and or subsidies from the government in order to put solar panels on folks his house because the infrastructure doesn't exist. And she was running she's letting me know about that. cost, she's like at $75,000 per house. And then we in order to like run the lines, and that's not even including the solar panel infrastructure. And then if they can't, we can't run the lines, and we're talking about batteries. And she was breaking this all down, I'm like, that is a lot of money. We need to get you that money. And then she started just educating us more through that. So I think I went into this video just knowing that I was going to try to make those connections. But what I realized was that I was actually going in to learn myself, just how much I need to humble myself with the realities that communities who have had less to nothing in certain things, everything from food, to energy to water, have made alternatives that they are, they've already created the solutions like we found one of the elders who had put up one of the first solar panels and Hopi reservation, which I highlighted in my video, she got it 30 years ago, like I, I was flabbergasted that she had the foresight, and the way that she articulated was everything from comfort to entertainment. But at the end of the was she knew she needed power. And she runs a business, the local business won a very few on the reservation that she was passionate enough to keep alive. And so this video just showed me that like, wherever you go, where there has been disenfranchisement, that's where you will find solutions. Because a lot of people have just making do for a long time, it just hasn't been seen, it hasn't been highlighted. Those are the people that like the UN should be talking to the you know, our federal government should be listening to.John Fiege Yeah, and I actually wanted to talk to you about Janice de who's the Hopi elder that you mentioned. And, you know, in particular, how it relates to how depth and skillful you are communicating with people from a wide range of backgrounds. in you, you you use humor a lot. And in this power to rely on video, you're sitting down with Janice day. And talking about how she's one of the first people to get solar power 30 years ago. And you asked her whether the first thing she charged with solar power would be a vibrator. And that was that was that was really funny. And all of a sudden, I'm watching with anticipation, asking myself, how is this woman going to react to that question? And you seem to have such a good read on the people you're speaking with. And I was hoping you could talk a bit more about how you communicate so many, so well and so many in so many different spaces and how you consciously or unconsciously lubricate the relationships with humor.Layel Camargo Yeah, I've been I I think a lot of it is my passion for humor has come from has been maintained by a lot of data and information that I've gotten around just the importance of people being able to process things through laughter. And that the climate crisis is nothing to make mockery and or to laugh, there's this is very serious. The ways in which our species is kind of being at threat of extinction, and right before our eyes. But I think that as humans, we're so complex and layered, and we're so beautiful in the sense that we get to feel so intensely and feeling is what motivates us to take action. And laughter helps you process so much data quicker, it helps you be able to take something in, embrace it, release, and then have it make an impression that is the one line that everybody brings up with that video. So I made the impression. And I hope that people watched it and then wanted to show it to other people. And so I think that, that that knowledge has retained my passion for humor. And then like I said, You know, I grew up in an abusive home where we had to process things fairly quickly in order to be able to function in the world to go to school to go to work. And growing up in a home where there was a lot of violence. I learned how to read people very keenly everything from anticipating when something was going to happen tonight, and I speak about that pretty like nonchalantly because I think a lot of us have a lot of strategies and skills that we've developed because of our traumas and our negative experiences that we've had in the world. And I think they don't often get seen as that we'll just say like, Well, I was just really I'm just really good at reading people and we'll leave it at that and it's like, but what is your learn that from like, there have been many chronic situations where you had to be really good at reading people in order for you to like practice it so clearly in it skillfully. And so I think I honor my experience in that in order for me to do that. And then I think cultural relativity and cultural content petencies is another thing like, Janice de actually reminds me a lot of my grandmother and my grandmother was somebody who was very religious. And at the same time, I always loved pushing her buttons. I would just like try to say things to get her activated. And I knew at the end of the day, she loved me. And that was about it. I didn't have to question whether she loved me because she was upset that I asked her something and appropriately. So I think it's a combination of that. And I'm grateful that I can embody that and be able to offer it to people who are curious about climate change and and feel more invited through laughter than they would about doom and gloom or heavy statistic videos and our ways of gathering information.John Fiege Awesome. Well, another kind of video you made is called consumerism, cancelled prime. And the first shot is you waiting while the camera crew sets up the shot and you're putting items in your Amazon cart on your phone. And then the quote unquote real video begins. And and you say 80% of California's cargo goes through the Inland Empire. And then you yell along expletive that's beeped out. And you ask emphatically his climate, wrote, his climate woke about to ruin amazon prime for me. And and I love how rather than just saying Amazon, or Amazon customers are bad. You're starting by implicating yourself in this system that leads to serious environmental justice issues. And again, it's really funny. Can you talk more about the situation with Amazon and other real retailers? And and how you went about positioning yourself in this story, and using humor again, and self criticism to connect to the audience?Layel Camargo Yeah, I mean, when we first started working on this video, we explore different avenues of that opening scene, when we wanted to highlight community members, I kind of at this point, have a pretty good like tempo of what it is that I want. I want a community member I want somebody who's like academic or scientifically based, and then somebody else who kind of comes in allows her to be more of a creative flow. So we have a pretty good structure at this point of the voices that we seek, we just didn't know how we wanted to hook the audience. And we went back and forth quite a bit on this, the thing that kept coming up was amazon prime memberships are very common. Most people have them most people buy on e commerce and this is pre COVID. And I was keenly aware of that I also knew that Amazon was growing as a franchise to now own Whole Foods that were just like expanding in regards to what it is that they offer people online. And as I mentioned, I, through my passion for reduction of plastic usage and plastic consumption, and plastic waste, I understand the ways that ecommerce has really hurt the planet. So I myself am not an Amazon Prime member, I I don't actually buy online and I allow myself when needed one Amazon thing a purchase a year. And it's like kind of more of a values align thing. So in order for me to reach connecting with somebody who's kind of a little bit more normal in regards to needing to rely on buying online, is I just had to exaggerate what I think happens when you're shopping, which is you look at a lot of stuff, you add them to cart, you get really excited, and then you kind of mindlessly click Buy without knowing what's going to happen. But you're excited when it arrives, surprisingly, because maybe you bought it in the middle of the night while drinking some wine and watching some Hulu. So that's like what I was trying to embody. And then what I was really trying to highlight in this video was I wanted to invite audiences to not feel shame about what they do, like we are we've all been indoctrinated by the system through what our education has taught us. Like we have values of individualism and patriotism and all these things, because that's what we were taught in schools. And that's been used and co opted by corporations in order for us to continue exploiting other humans and the planet. And that's by no fault of our own. That's a design that's an economic model that was designed since the Great Depression. It's just the way that it's been exaggerated and has scaled so quickly is beyond our control where our governments don't even regulate it anymore at the ways in which they should be. And I think that I wanted this to feel like it's not just on you as an individual, but it's specifically if you live in Europe or in the United States. You need to know that we are The biggest consumers on the planet, we have the most economic resources. We actually, if even a fraction of the United States decided to stop shopping at Amazon, we could significantly bring that Empire down. I say Empire pretty intentionally. And we could I mean, I feel like you. And that's and how I understand economics is that all you need to do is impact 10 to 20%. of supply and demand chain in order for a whole corporation to collapse. The problem is, is that our governments always come in to aid these large corporations that are hurting us on the planet by saying that they want to maintain jobs and maintain a GDP are going stock market, which they're reliant on. So this video was meant for audiences. And for people to feel like this is not just on you. But if you live

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What an episode! You are all in for a TREAT! Unpacking long COVID and vaxx injury (aka side effects of the vaccine) was something else! I have wanted to dive into this for a while with someone, but finding the right expert was tricky… then by chance, I came across one of Tashs blogs & I was mind-blown! In this episode, we unpack: Navigating expectations and client despair when so impacted by long COVID/vax injury Classic symptoms of Long Covid/Covid Vax Injury and the first steps to healing Summarising current hypotheses/explanations of spike protein damage Working alongside an integrative GP if additional pharmaceuticals (eg LDN, Ivermectin) could be supportive Dosing and complex scripts in sensitive clients Integrating herbal medicine with clients who can tolerate it (e.g not MCAS early stages) and some favourite liquid herbs Importance of EARLY symptom support when viral Sx begin (a much-suppressed narrative during Covid) Key nutrient levels to maintain (Vit D, iron, B12, etc) General wellbeing immune care during winter months LINKS TO NATASHA:  Website:  www.freedomwellness.com.au Social links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/natashasidoti/Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/NatashaSidotiNaturopath FLCCC.com - protocols with natural and integrative medicine https://covid19criticalcare.com/treatment-protocols/ LINKS TO SHERADYN: Assess your gut health in 3min HERE Follow me on Instagram HERE.  Join my Private Facebook group HERE. Book a Free Gut Health Planning Session HERE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week Aaron Woods is joined by one of games all time greats Greg Inglis! GI talks us through his incredible career winning multiple premierships, Origin dynasties, his difficulties transitioning into retirement & how Craig Bellamy shaped his career!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bio Dr. Jeff Sutherland is the inventor and co-creator of Scrum, the most widely used Agile framework across the globe.  Originally used for software development, Jeff has also pioneered the application of the framework to multiple industries and disciplines. Today, Scrum is applied to solve complex projects in start-ups and Fortune 100 companies. Scrum companies consistently respond to market demand, to get results and drive performance at speeds they never thought possible. Jeff is committed to developing the Agile leadership practices that allow Scrum to scale across an enterprise.   Dr. Sutherland is the chairman and founder of Scrum Inc. He is a signatory of the Agile manifesto and coauthor of the Scrum Guide and the creator Scrum@Scale. Jeff continues to teach, create new curriculum in the Agile Education Program and share best practices with organizations around the globe. He is the founder of Scrum Inc. and coauthor of, Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time, that has sold over 100,000 copies worldwide.    Social Media:                 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jeffsutherland                 Twitter: @jeffsutherland Website: Scrum Inc https://scruminc.com               Books/ Articles: The Scrum Guide by Jeff Sutherland and Ken Schwaber http://www.scrumguides.org/index.html Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time by Jeff Sutherland The Scrum Fieldbook by JJ Sutherland Agile Competitors and Virtual Organisations by Steven Goldman, Roger Nagel and Kenneth Preiss https://www.amazon.co.uk/Agile-Competitors-Virtual-Organizations-Engineering/dp/0471286508 Accelerate: Building Strategic Agility for a Faster Moving World by John P. Kotter Leading Change by John P. Kotter Process Dynamics, Modeling and Control by Babatunde A. Ogunnaike and Harmon W. Ray A Scrum Book: The Spirit of the Game by Jeff Sutherland, James Coplien, Mark den Hollander, et al    Interview Transcript Ula Ojiaku: Hello everyone, my guest today is Dr Jeff Sutherland. He is the inventor and co-creator of Scrum, the most widely used Agile Framework across the globe. Originally used for Software Development, Jeff has also pioneered the application of the framework to multiple industries and disciplines. Today, Scrum is applied to deliver complex projects in startups and Fortune 100 companies. Dr Jeff Sutherland is the Chairman and Founder of Scrum Inc. He is a signatory of the Agile Manifesto and co-author of the Scrum Guide and the creator of Scrum at Scale. Jeff continues to teach, create new curriculum in the Agile education programme and share best practices with organisations around the globe. He has authored and co-authored a number of books which include Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time – which has sold over 100,000 copies worldwide. In this episode, Dr Sutherland shares the backstory of how he and Ken Schwaber developed the Scrum framework. I was pleasantly surprised and proud to learn that one of the inspirations behind the current Scrum framework we now have was the work of Prof Babatunde Ogunnike, given my Nigerian heritage. Dr Sutherland also talked about the importance of Agile Leadership and his current focus on helping organisations fix bad Scrum implementations. I'm sure you'll uncover some useful nuggets in this episode. Without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, my conversation with Dr Sutherland.   Ula Ojiaku: Thank you, Dr. Sutherland, for joining us on the Agile Innovation Leaders podcast. It's a great pleasure to have you here. Jeff Sutherland: Glad to be here. Looking forward to it. Ula Ojiaku: Fantastic. So could you tell us about yourself? Jeff Sutherland: Well, I grew up in a small town in Massachusetts. And I always felt that I would go to West Point of the United States Military Academy, even at a very young age. And I finally made it there. I spent four years there. And I went on to a program where a certain number of cadets could join the Air Force. And I told the Air Force, if they made me a fighter pilot, I would move into the Air Force, which I did. I spent 11 years as a fighter pilot in the Air Force. And most of the operational aspects of Scrum actually come from that training. My last tour in the Air Force was actually at the US Air Force Academy, I was a professor of mathematics. And I had gone to Stanford University in preparation for that position. And I had worked closely with the, at the time he was Head of the Department of Psychiatry, became the Dean of Stanford who had studied under my father-in-law, he had become an MD under my father-in-law, who was a brilliant physician. And I was working on research papers with him, both at Stanford and at the Air Force Academy. And I asked him for guidance. And I said, I'm thinking about, given all the work we've done in the medical area. Starting in Stanford, I'm thinking maybe becoming a doctor - become an MD. And he strongly recommended against that he said, ‘you'll just go backwards in your career, what you need to do is you build on everything you've done so far. And what you have is your fighter pilot experience, your experience as a statistician, and a mathematician, you want to build on that.' So, I had already started into a doctoral program at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, which was not far from the Air Force Academy. And so, I talked to my department Chairman there who offered me a position in the department running a large research grant, funded by the National Cancer Institute and so, I decided to exit the Airforce and join the medical school. While I was finishing up my doctoral degree. And as soon as my doctorate was finished, I became a professor of Radiology, preventive medicine and biometrics. I was a joint across multiple departments. And I was doing mathematical research on modeling, particularly the human cell on a supercomputer, (to) determine what caused cancer. And to do that required extensive mathematical research as well as the medical research. But at the end of the day, what we found was for any complex adaptive system, like a human cell, or a person or a team, they go through different states. And they're moved from one state to the next by some kind of intervention. And so, if you understand what causes those changes… turned out in the case of cancer, there were four different states that led to a tumor. And in every state, there were certain interventions, and if you knew what they were, you could prevent them and prevent cancer. Or you could even, to my surprise, take a cancer cell and make it go backward into a normal cell. So, this fundamental understanding is the theory behind Scrum. So, while I'm doing this all at the medical school, a large banking company came by and said, ‘you know, over the medical school, you guys have all the knowledge about the technologies; the new technology, we're using (for) banking, you're using for research.' And they said, ‘you guys have all the knowledge but we have all the money and they made me an offer to come join the bank'    Ula Ojiaku: [Laughs]You couldn't refuse Jeff Sutherland: Not just me, it was my family. So, I wind up as Vice President for Advanced Systems, which was effectively was the CTO for 150 banks that we were running across North America.   Each was, you know, a dozen, 50, 100 branches. And of course, we were mainly doing the software, installation and support to run the banking operation, which is largely computer stuff – (this) is what banks run off. And as we're building these systems with hundreds and hundreds of developers, one of the first things I noticed is that all the projects were late. And I look at what they're doing. And they're using this process where they spend, you know, six months defining requirements, and then they put all the requirements into a Gantt chart. And then they, they plan on taking six months to build something, but it's never done. Because as soon as they start testing that they find there's all kinds of things that are broken. So, virtually every single project of the bank is late. So, as a head of technology, one day I walked into the CEO's office and I said, ‘Ron,  have you noticed all your projects are late?' He said, ‘Yes'. He says, ‘Every morning at least five CIOs or CEOs of the banks, they call me up.' And he says, ‘they scream at me.' I said, ‘wow', I said, ‘You know, it's going to get worse, not better. Because these guys are using this, these Gantt Charts.' And I showed him one. And then being a mathematician, I mathematically proved that every project would be late at the bank. And he was stunned. And he said, ‘what should I do?' I said, ‘we need a completely different operating system in the bank.' This is back in 1983. ‘Let's take one business unit. Let's take the one that's losing the most money, okay, the worst business unit' Ula Ojiaku: They have nothing to lose then. Jeff Sutherland: And it was the automated teller division that was rolling out cash machines all over North America. It was a new technology and they had a ton of problems. So, I said, ‘let's take that unit and every one, sales, market, support, installation, we're going to split them down into small teams. And we're going to have Product Marketing come in on Monday with a backlog prioritized by business value. And at the end of the week, on Friday, we're going to deploy to 150 banks.' ‘And I'm going to train them how to land a project every week, just like I trained fighter pilots to land aircraft. I'm going to give them a burndown chart, we're going to throw away the Gantt Chart, I'm going to give them a burndown chart to show them how to land the project.' So, he said, ‘Well, that's gonna be a big headache.' I said, ‘look, the bank needs to be fixed.' He said, ‘Okay, you got it.' So, I took that unit. I told them, ‘I know it's gonna take several weeks,' today we call them sprints, ‘for you to be successful.' Because as new pilots, trained to land, these high-performance jets, they tend to come in high and then they have to come around and try to land again, they over and over, they practice until they can nail it. And it took them six weeks, six sprints to actually nail the end of the week (and) deploy (to) 150 banks. But within six months, it became… it went from the worst business unit in the bank to the most profitable business unit in the bank. And the senior management said, ‘you know, Jeff, here's another 20 million dollars to throw at whatever that thing you're doing  it's the most profitable thing in the bank, we're gonna put more money in that. So that was the first prototype of what we call today Scrum at Scale. Now, I've been CTO of 11, or CTO or CEO of 11 different companies. And for the next 10 years, I prototyped that model and advanced technology teams until in 1993, at a company called Easel Corporation, we found that because of the tooling we were building and selling to customers, we needed to build the tool with what today we call Agile Practice. Ula Ojiaku: Yes Jeff Sutherland: And we need to train the customer to use the tool by having teams do an agile practice. So, in order to train our customers properly in 1993, we actually had to formalize what I've been prototyping for 10 years. And we wrote it down and at the time we were reading this paper, we're going through 1000 papers in the journals I, you know, I had done many new technology. And, in every one of them, you have to read everything that's ever been done so that you can go beyond. You can use everything that's been done, but then you go beyond, okay? Ula Ojiaku: Yeah Jeff Sutherland:  So, it's a tremendous amount of research to launch new technology. And at about the 300th paper in our file, it was a paper out of the Harvard Business Review, which really surprised me, by two Japanese Business School professors, Professors Takeuchi and Nonaka. And in there, they described the best teams in the world. They were lean hardware teams that reminded them of a game of rugby, they said, ‘we're going to call what they're doing Scrum Project Management.' So, I said to the team, ‘we need a name for this thing that we're going to train our customers in, and let's call it Scrum.' And off we went. So, for the next two years, we were actually using Scrum within Easel deploying products. But it was not public, to the general industry. And Easel got acquired by a larger company. And at that time, I felt that this needed to be rolled out into the industry because we had benchmarked it with the best tooling in the world from the leading productivity company, and showed that it was… that (it) went 10 times faster. The quality was 10 times better, which is what you need for a new technology innovation. And so, I felt it was ready to go to the industry as a whole. So, I called up an old friend, Ken Schwaber. And he was a CEO of a traditional Project Management software company, a waterfall (methodology). He sold these methodologies with 303 ring binders, a software package that would make Gantt Charts. So, I said, ‘Ken, I want you to come up and see the Scrum, because it actually works and that stuff you're selling doesn't work – it makes projects late.' And he agreed to come in, he actually came up, he met with me. He stayed for two weeks inside the company, working, observing the Scrum team. And at the end of those two weeks, he said, ‘Jeff, you're right. This really works - it's pretty much the way I run my company.' He said, ‘if I ran my company with a Gantt Chart, we would have been bankrupt a long time ago.' So, I said, ‘well, why don't you sell something to work that works instead of inflicting more damage on the industry?' So, he said so we said ‘okay, how (do) we do it?' I said, ‘it needs to be open source, it needs to be free.' Ken felt we needed to take the engineering practices, many of which appear today in extreme programming… Ula Ojiaku: Yes Jeff Sutherland: …and let Kent Beck (creator of eXtreme Programming, XP) run with them because Kent had been sending me emails, ‘Jeff, send me every...', he had been following the development of Scrum, ‘…send me everything on Scrum, I'm building a new process. I want to use anything that you've done before and not try to reinvent anything.' So, he (Ken Schwaber) said, ‘let Kent take the engineering practices, we'll focus on the team process itself.' And we agreed to write the first paper on this to present at a big conference later that year. And writing that paper was quite interesting. Ken visited DuPont Chemical Corporation, the leading Chemical Process Engineers there that they had hired out of academia to stop chemical plants from blowing up. And when Ken met with them, they said, describe what we were doing in the software domain. They said, ‘you know, well, that process that traditional project management is a Predictive Process Control System. We have that in the chemical industry.' ‘But it's only useful if the variation in the process running is less than 4%.' They said, ‘do you have less than 4% change in requirements while you're building software?' Ken says, ‘no, of course not! It's over 50%!' And they started laughing at him. They said, ‘your project's going to be exploding all over the place.' ‘Because every chemical plant that has blown up has been somebody applying a predictive control system to a system that has high variability. You need to completely retrain industry to use Empirical Process Control, which will stop your projects from blowing up. And they said, here it is, here's the book, they had the standard reference book for Chemical Process Engineering. And in there, there's a chapter on Empirical Process Control, which is based on transparency, inspection, and adapting to what's happening in real time. Okay, so those are the three pillars of Scrum that are today at the base of the Scrum guide. Ula Ojiaku: Do you still remember the title of the book that the chemical engineers recommended to Mr. Schwaber by any chance? Jeff Sutherland: Yeah, so I have a, when I do training, I have a slide that has a picture of the book (Process Dynamics, Modelling and Control). It's written by Ogunnaike and Ray. But that is the root of the change that's gone on in the industry. And so then from 1995, forward, Ken and I started working together, I was still CTO of companies. And I would get him to come in as a consultant and work with me. And we'd implement and enhance the Scrum implementations in company after company after company. Until 2001, of course, Scrum was expanding but Extreme Programming in 2001, was actually the most widely deployed. They were only two widely-deployed agile processes at the time of Scrum and Extreme Programming. Extreme Programming was the biggest. And so, the Agile Manifesto meeting was convened. And it had 17 people there, but three of them were Scrum guys - that had started up Scrum, implemented it in companies, four of them were the founders of Extreme Programming. And the other 10 were experts who have written books on adaptive software development or, you know, lightweight processes, so, industry experts. And we, we talked for a day and everybody explained what they were doing and there was a lot of arguments and debate. And at the end of the day, we agreed because of this book, Agile Competitors, a book about 100 hardware companies - lean hardware companies, that have taken Lean to the next level, by involving the customer in the creation of the product. And we said, ‘we think that we all need to run under one umbrella. And we should call that Agile.' Ula Ojiaku: So, did you actually use the word umbrella in your (statement)? Oh, okay. Jeff Sutherland: Often, people use that right? Ula Ojiaku: Yes, yes Jeff Sutherland: Because at the time, we had Agile and Extreme Programming, and now everybody's trying to come up with their own flavor, right?  All under the same umbrella of ‘Agile'. And that caused the both Scrum and Extreme Programming started to expand even more, and then other kinds of processes also. But Scrum rapidly began to take dominant market share, Scrum today is about 80% of what people call Agile. The reason being, number one, it was a technology that was invented and created to be 10 times better. So, it was a traditional new technology developed based on massive amounts of research. So, it worked. But number two, it also scaled it worked very well for many teams. I mean, there are many companies today like Amazon that have thousands of Scrum teams. And Extreme Programming was really more towards one team. And (reason number) three, you could distribute it across the world. So, some of the highest performing teams are actually dozens of teams or hundreds across multiple continents. And because of those three characteristics, it's (Scrum has) dominated the market. So that brings us to in 2006, I was asked by a Venture Capital firm to help them implement Scrum in their companies, they felt that Scrum was a strategic advantage for investment. And not only that, they figured out that it should be implemented everywhere they implemented it within the venture group, everybody doing Scrum. And their goal was to double their return on investment compared to any other venture capital firm. They pretty much have done that by using Scrum, but then they said, ‘Jeff, you know, we're hiring you as a consultant into our companies. And you're a CTO of a healthcare company right now. And we don't want to build a healthcare company, we want to build a Scrum company.' ‘So, why don't you create Scrum Inc. right here in the venture group? We'll support it, we'll do the administrative support. We'll write you a check - whatever you want.' So, I said, ‘well, I'm not going to take any money because I don't need it. I understand how that works. If the venture capital firm owns your company, then (in the) long term, you're essentially their slave for several years. So, I'm not taking any money. But I will create the company within the venture group. If you provide the administrative support, I'll give you 10% of the revenue and you can do all the finances and all that kind of stuff. So, that's the way Scrum Inc. was started to enable an investment firm to launch or support or invest in many dozens of Scrum companies. Ula Ojiaku: That's awesome Jeff Sutherland: And today, we're on the sixth round of investment at OpenView Venture Partners, which was the company the six round is 525 million. There's a spin out from OpenView that I'm working with, that has around this year, 25 million. And over the years, just co-investing with the venture group I have my own investment fund of 50 million. So, we have $570 million, right this year 2021 that we're putting into Scrum companies. Agile companies, preferably Scrum. Ula Ojiaku: Now when you say Scrum companies is it that they facilitate the (Scrum) training and offer consulting services in Scrum or is it that those companies operate and you know, do what they do by adopting Scrum processes? Jeff Sutherland: Today, Scrum Inc sometimes help some of those companies, but in general, those companies are independently implementing Scrum in their organizations.   Ula Ojiaku: Right Jeff Sutherland: And okay, some of them may come to Scrum training, maybe not. But since Scrum is so widely deployed in the industry, Scrum Inc, is only one of 1000 companies doing Scrum training and that sort of stuff. So, they have a wide variety, wide area of where they can get training and also many of the startups, they already know Scrum before they started the company. They are already Agile. So, what we're interested in is to find the company that understands Agile and has the right team players, particularly at the executive level, to actually execute on it. Ula Ojiaku: No matter what the product or services (are)… Jeff Sutherland: Products or services, a lot of them are software tooling companies, but some of them are way beyond that, right? So, turns out that during COVID… COVID was a watershed. The companies that were not agile, they either went bankrupt, or they were crippled. That meant all the Agile companies that could really do this, started grabbing all the market share. And so, many of our companies, their stock price was headed for the moon during COVID. While the non-agile companies were flatlined, or are going out of business, and so the year of COVID was the best business year in the history of venture capital because of Agility. So, as a result, I'm spending half my time really working, investing in companies, and half of my time, working with Scrum (Inc.) and supporting them, helping them move forward. Ula Ojiaku: That's a very impressive resume and career story really Dr. Sutherland. I have a few questions: as you were speaking, you've called Scrum in this conversation, a process, a tooling, the technology. And you know, so for some hardcore Agilists, some people will say, you know, Agile is all about the mindset for you, what would you say that Scrum is it all of these things you've called it or would it be, you know, or it's something (else)...? Jeff Sutherland: So, certainly the (Agile) mindset is important. But from an investment point of view, if the organization can't deliver real value, quickly, agile is just a bunch of nonsense. And we have a huge amount of nonsense out there. In fact, the Standish group has been publishing for decades. 58% of Agile teams are late over budget with unhappy customers. So, when you get these hardcore Agilist, that are talking about mindset, you have to figure out ‘are they in the 42% that actually can do it or are they in the 58% that are crippled?' My major work with Scrum Inc. today is to try to get to fix the bad Scrum out there. That is the biggest problem in the Agile community. People picking up pieces of things, people picking up ideas, and then putting together and then it doesn't work. That is going to that's going to be really bad for agile in the future. If 58% of it continues not to work. So, what we found, I mean, it was really interesting. Several years ago, the senior executive (of) one of the biggest Japanese companies flew to Boston wanted meet with me. And he said to me, ‘the training is not working in Japan for Scrum.' He said, ‘I spent 10 years with Google, in Silicon Valley. So, I know what it looks like what actually works. And I can tell you, it's not working in Japan, because the training is… it's not the training of the Scrum that is high performing. And in fact, our company is 20% owned by Toyota, and we are going to be the trainers of Toyota. And we cannot deliver the training that's currently being given to Toyota, it will not work, it will not fly. And we want to create a company called Scrum Inc. Japan. And we're a multibillion-dollar company, we're ready to invest whatever it takes to make that happen.' To give them the kind of training that will produce the teams that Takeuchi and Nonaka were writing about in the first paper on Scrum. And as we work with them to figure out what needs to be in that training, we found that the Scrum Guide was only 25% of the training. Another 25% was basic Lean concepts and tooling, right? Because the original Scrum paper was all about Lean hardware companies. So Lean is fundamental to Scrum. If you don't understand it, you can't do it. And then third, there are certain patterns of performance that we've developed over the years, we spent 10 years writing a book on patterns - Scrum patterns. And there's about a dozen of those patterns that have to be implemented to get a high performing team. And finally, scaling to multiple teams. It turns out, right about this time I started working with the Japanese, I was at a conference with the Agile Leadership from Intel. And they told me that they'd introduced Scaling Frameworks into Intel division, some of which had more than 500 Scrum teams in the divisions and the Scaling Frameworks had slowed them down. And it made the senior executives furious and they threw them all out and they said, we did not want to hear the word Scrum at Intel anymore. But you guys need to go twice as fast as you're going now. So, they came to me, they said, ‘we're desperate. We have to go twice as fast. We can't even use the word “Scrum”. What should we do?' And they blamed me, they said, ‘Sutherland you're responsible you caused problem, you need to fix it.' So, I started writing down how to do what today we call Scrum at Scale. And everybody, you know, most of those people in the industry were implementing IT scaling frameworks. They were all upset. ‘Why are you writing down another framework?' Well, it's because those IT frameworks do not enable the organization to show Business Agility, and win in the market. And in the best companies in the world, they're being thrown out. So, I've had to write down how do you add, how do you go to hundreds and thousands of Scrum teams - and never slow down as you're adding more and more teams. You know, every team you add is as fast as the first team when you start. Yeah, that's what Scrum at Scale is all about. So, there's two primary things that I'm focused on today. One is to fix all this bad Scrum. Second is to fix the scaling problem. Because it turns out that if you look at the latest surveys from Forbes magazine, and the Scrum Alliance on successful Agile transformations - I learned recently, that almost every company in the world of any significance is going through an Agile transformation or continuing transformation they'd already started years ago. And 53% of them do not meet management expectations. And the MIT Sloan Business Review did an analysis of what happens if an agile transformation fails, and 67% of those companies go out of business. So, this is becoming really serious, right? To be successful today, if you're competing in any significant way, you have to be agile. And number two, if you try to be agile and fail, you have a 67% chance going out of business. And the failure rate is 53%. So, this is the problem that we're wrestling with. And half of that 53% failure is due to the bad Scrum we talked about, but the other half is due because of the leadership not being Agile. Ula Ojiaku: I was just going to say, as you said something about the leadership not being agile. In my experience, you know, as an agile coach in some organizations whilst the teams would embrace you know, Scrum and embrace Agility - the practices and the processes and everything. There's a limit to, you know, how much they can get done… Jeff Sutherland: Absolutely… Ula Ojiaku: …if the leadership are not on board. So… Jeff Sutherland: …you hit this glass ceiling. So, I've been, you know, giving presentations on Agile Transformations around the world. And I can remember multiple times I've had 300 people in the room, say, and I say okay, ‘How many of you are agile, in Agile transformations or continuing the ones you'd started?' Of course, everybody raises their hand. ‘How many of you have waterfall traditional management that expects you to deliver all the old Gantt Chart reports that we always got, and don't understand what you're doing?' There's 300 people in the room and 297 people raised their hand. I said, ‘you need to give your leadership the book by Professor Kotter called Accelerate.' Professor Kotter is one of the leading change experts of the world. Ula Ojiaku: And he also, yeah, He also wrote ‘Leading Change' as well - the book, yes. Jeff Sutherland: And in that book, he says, if the leadership of the Agile part of the organization is traditional in their mindset and requirements, the Agile Transformation will eventually fail 100% of the time. Ula Ojiaku: Those are sobering statistics in terms of, you know, the failure rate and how much of you know the success hinges on business agility and the leadership being agile as well and taking the time to know and care what it means. Yeah. Jeff Sutherland: And what's happening is that the Agile Leadership today, if you look at some of the companies that have been most successful during COVID, one of them is John Deere Corporation, the biggest farm equipment manufacturer in the world, probably the oldest. Their stock price went up more than Amazon during COVID. And the board of directors gave their Agile Leadership, the Agile Coaches, Scrum Masters, the highest award in the Corporation for producing that result. So that's another reason I'm trying to communicate to Agile people. The success and survival of your company depends on you. You think your management's going to save you but no, if they are old-style people, they are going to run that company out of business. And you need to either save it before it goes out of business or run to another company before bad things happen. Ula Ojiaku: It's impressive that, you know, John Deere being a farm equipment manufacturer… I think they were ahead of the curve you know, (compared to some of their contemporaries in that industry as well) and embraced agile ways of working. Do you know how their Agile Leadership were able to quantify their contributions to the company? Jeff Sutherland: John Deere started to get Agile more than 10 years ago. So, they've been at it a long time. But in recent years, they really started to build… build internally… Agile leadership, you know, based on my work and they started applying that across the company. I mean, the major focus has not been software actually – it's been in other parts of the company. What has to happen to run a company that's building tractors? Well, there's all kinds of things that have to happen, you know - purchasing, there's legal, there's acquiring all the pieces, it's putting them together at the assembly line, you know, software is a piece of it. You know, that's probably the easiest piece to fix with Agile, it's the rest of the company that's the challenge. They have started doing that really well which is reflected in their stock price. Ula Ojiaku: Amazing. So, you said something about you know, you're out to fix a couple of things, the problem with bad Scrum out there. And, you know, the problem with scaling agile. Jeff Sutherland: Right Ula Ojiaku: So, with respect to the first one, the point about bad Scrum, what in your experience would be the root cause of bad Scrum implementations in organizations? Jeff Sutherland: There're about 11 things, that if you fix them, the team will go twice as fast. And it's multiplicative. So, you know, we have extensive data on, you know, really big companies. What's the difference between the fastest team and the slowest teams? The fastest teams are 2000 times faster than the slowest teams. So why is that? Well, first, the team has to be small. The optimal team size is four or five people. If you have a 10-person team, that's going to take at least 50% longer to get anything done. If you go out, look at the team size, you'll see companies have even not only ten-people teams, they have 15 people in a team, 25 people in a team, okay? Those teams are never gonna meet Agile performance. Second, the backlog needs to be really ready in a sense of small, it's clearly understood, it's properly prioritized. So, you need somebody managing that backlog that can get it right, because we have extensive data for multiple case studies showing the team's production doubles immediately. As soon as you get that backlog right. So you go into many companies, you'll see, there's still arguing about what's the top priority, right? Or everything's top priority. That's just gonna create a massive mess. Third, teams are constantly interrupted. You know, the only teams I know that aren't interrupted are people… these teams and defense contractors working on top secret stuff. And they work in a locked room, the door, it says ‘no managers can enter' and they don't get interrupted. But for the rest of us, there's always somebody coming in wanting something else done. And there's a way to manage that using a pattern we call the interrupt buffer. And if you don't have that pattern implemented properly, you're gonna go half as fast. If you're lucky, you might go half as fast. Ula Ojiaku: And what do you say the Scrum Master has a part to play in making sure the interrupt buffer is there and it's enforced? Jeff Sutherland: The scrum master needs to set this all up. Fifth, in high performing teams, we see this pattern called swarming, where multiple people are working on a story together. That increases the process efficiency, which doubles the performance of the team. So, if people are specialists working independently, that team is going to be really slow. So I'm up to number five, there are six more things, but you probably want to go through them. It's very clear, what makes agile teams suck, we know exactly why. And it needs to be fixed. So, I appeal to anyone listening to this help fix bad agile, it's hurting us all. Ula Ojiaku: Thank you for sharing that. Would this be in any of any of your books or in any of your articles that you've written? Jeff Sutherland: Yeah, it's everywhere and (in) everything I've written, but the best summary, it's the red book Scrum … Scrum, The Art of Doing Twice the Work and Half the Time And we've had people pick, pick this up. A CEO in Kenya came to New York to one of my courses, he said, ‘Jeff, I just read your book. And I'm CEO with three new energy startups in Kenya. And my teams implemented that, and they're going… they're doing three times the work and a third of the time. So, your book is too conservative.' He says to me, this guy, he only read the book, he had no training. So, this book is enough to really get off on the right foot. And if you're having problems, it's enough to fix things. In fact, recently before COVID when we could get everybody together, we had an Apple employee in the class and she said, Jeff, do you know why Apple always meet its states? I said, no, you know, Apple is really secretive. They don't tell anybody anything. She says ‘it's because they do Scrum by the book.' So, I said, ‘What book?' She says, ‘The Red Book - Scrum, The Art of Doing Twice the Work and Half the Time - they do it exactly by the book.' So, again, my message to the Agilists out there: Apple is winning. They are the most valuable company in the world. And it's because they do Scrum exactly by that book. So, you probably should read it. Ula Ojiaku: Definitely. So going by the book, would you say there's any wriggle room for adapting to one's context, or is it about you know, going, ‘check- we've done page 123…' Jeff Sutherland: Well, the whole thing about adapting is fundamental to Scrum. So, one of the things I'm constantly doing in my talks, training, is I'm going back to before Scrum and reading a paper from the leading researchers on complex adaptive systems, in which they mathematically proved, you model things on the computer, that systems evolve more quickly, if they have more degrees of freedom, up until you hit a boundary where the system goes into a chaotic state. So, from the very beginning in Scrum, maximizing the freedom and the decision capability of the team has been fundamental. And we talked about this as self-organization. Now, unfortunately, that term has been so misused, misunderstood that we had to take self-organization out of the Scrum guide. And what we inserted was self-managing. And we put next to it goals, okay, the theme is self-managing to achieve a goal. And to make that happen, they need a commitment to do that. And so, this is one of the fundamental things for Agile teams that work that they have that self-managing commitment to achieve a goal. And the teams that are not working, they're fuzzy about that, right. So, we want the maximum degree of adaptation, the thing that they don't want to change is the basic structure that's in the red book, if they change that, it has the control mechanisms to allow the maximum degree of self-organization - not to go off the rails. Ula Ojiaku: Right. Jeff Sutherland: So, we see a lot of Agilists, ‘oh, you know, let's just tweak the framework this way or that way.' And then the self-organization takes a team off the rails, and then they fall into that 58% that can't deliver, they're late, they're over budget, the customers aren't happy. And so, this is the really one of the hardest things to communicate to people. There're certain things that you absolutely have to be disciplined about. You have to be more disciplined to get a great Agile team than in all ways of working. And that discipline is what allows the maximum degree of self-organization and self-determination, right? So, understanding those two things together, you know, it makes it makes people's brain explode, right? It's hard. Ula Ojiaku: But it works. Jeff Sutherland: But it works right.  Ula Ojiaku: You've already mentioned a lot of books in the course of this interview session, and these would be in the show notes. So, would there be anything any final word of advice you'd have for the leaders that would be listening to this podcast in terms of their transformation journey? Jeff Sutherland: So, one of the things we did to Scrum at Scale is that the difference between that and most of the other scaling frameworks is that it's all about the leadership. So, we need an operating leadership team, that is a Scrum team that needs a Scrum Master, a Product Owner, backlog. And its objective is to improve the Agile implementation of the organization. On the prioritization side, we need a leadership team that, led by a Chief Product Owner, that is prioritizing backlog across the organization. So, you know, I've had the Chief Product Owner of Hewlett Packard in my course, he had a $200 billion portfolio. He learned from that class. Says this class is pretty good.' He said, ‘In just one slide I figured out how to get $20 billion more a year with no additional resources'. Just by understanding how to work the framework right? At the $200 billion level. Ula Ojiaku: And you're talking about the Scrum at Scale course, right? Jeff Sutherland: No, this was a product owner course. Product Owner course. He came to it. We're now doing a Scrum at Scale… we're actually doing a Chief Product Owner course. So, a Product Owners at Scale course which it has been really well received by the leading Agile Practitioners. (They) really like that because they need to work more in the large than in the small often. Ula Ojiaku: Definitely. That means this available on the Scrum Inc site? Jeff Sutherland: Yes. Ula Ojiaku: Okay. Jeff Sutherland: So, one of the things I would recommend I would really recommend is the Scrum Field Book. It's a bunch of case studies for organizations, large and small, that have tried to take the whole organization to Scrum. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Sutherland - it's been a great pleasure having you and hopefully we could have a you know, follow up conversation sometime. Jeff Sutherland: Yes. Thanks for inviting me and glad to do it again. Ula Ojiaku: That's all we have for now. Thanks for listening. If you liked this show, do subscribe at www.agileinnovationleaders.com. Also share with friends and leave a review. This would help others find the show. I'd also love to hear from you, so please drop me an email at ula@agileinnovationleaders.com. Till next time, take care and God bless!    

Physician-scientist Dr. Velva Boles provides us with COVID- COVID-19 update. If you took the jab or know someone who did, Dr. V has some very important information to share. Dr. V will also discuss Baton Rougues' controversial Brave Cave. Before Dr. V Reparations United's Kaam Howard will check-in. Frank Malone from the 100 Fathers Inc. will also join us. The Big Show starts at 6 am ET, 5 am CT, 3 am PT, and 11 am BST on WOLB 1010 AM, wolbbaltimore.com, WOL 95.9 FM & 1450 AM & woldcnews.com. To participate, listeners call 800 450 7876 and can listen live in the DMV on 104.1hd3 FM, 93.9hd3 FM, & 102.3hd3 FM, TuneIn Radio & Alexa. “Don't miss out on this informative and thought-provoking discussion! Tune in on Monday morning to join the conversation and learn more about the issues impacting our community.” All programs are available for free from your favorite podcast platform. Follow the programs on Twitter & Instagram and watch your Black Ideas come to LifeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

@TheHeartlandPOD on Twitter and ThreadsCo-HostsAdam Sommer @Adam_Sommer85  (Twitter) @adam_sommer85 (Post)Rachel Parker @msraitchetp   (Post) Sean Diller @SeanDillerCO   (Twitter and Post)https://heartlandpod.com/JOIN PATREON FOR MORE - AND JOIN OUR SOCIAL NETWORK!“Change The Conversation”Outro Song: “The World Is On Fire” by American Aquarium http://www.americanaquarium.com/ Tim Scott seems to have just realized he's in the Republican partyhttps://www.businessinsider.com/tim-scott-responds-gay-rumors-unmarried-black-2024-campaign-2023-9Sen. Tim Scott, a 2024 GOP presidential candidate, is defending his unmarried status.It's garnered more attention over the course of the campaign, with some insinuating he's gay.Scott insists he has a girlfriend and says the attention on his relationship status is a stand-in for other attacks.Sad that Sen. Scott cannot simply be who his is, or is not. The Trump 14th Amendment Insurrection clause push is onLet's talk 14th Amendment Often referred to as the “substantive due process” clause and where you can find the “priviledges and immunities” language, along with equal protectionBTW why this isn't being mentioned as a way to challenge abortion laws, I'm not sure, but that's another showLanguage of 14th: 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Civil Rights (1868) | National ArchivesVery Smart Legal Scholar ArticleQuote from article: The Congress that proposed the Fourteenth Amendment rightly regarded the situation as outrageous—not only morally, but practically. If former Confederates held the levers of federal and state government power, effective “reconstruction” of the political order and any hope of extending the full and equal protection of the laws to the newly freed former slaves would be at an end.Section 3 is the insurrection clause: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.Potential problem: section 5 places enforcement with Congress to make laws that enforce the provisions of the 14th, but wording of Sec 3 seems to automatically attach, or be “self executing” in legal termsLaurence Tribe: If Trump doesn't qualify for insurrection clause, nobody wouldMinnesota challenge (just the latest similar in Colorado) Trump faces another 14th Amendment candidacy challenge, this time in Minnesota | CNN Politics14th Amendment challenges against Trump's candidacy mount as campaign pushes back - ABC NewsFrom law suit: “Donald J. Trump, through his words and actions, after swearing an oath as an officer of the United States to support the Constitution, then engaged in insurrection as defined by Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment,” the new lawsuit says. “He is disqualified from holding the presidency or any other office under the United States.”Trump's Final Solution Plan unveiledConservatives aim to restructure U.S. government and replace it with Trump's vision | PBS NewsHourFrom article: With a nearly 1,000-page “Project 2025” handbook and an “army” of Americans, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on Day One to commandeer, reshape and do away with what Republicans deride as the “deep state” bureaucracy, in part by firing as many as 50,000 federal workers.Plan to “flood the zone” with ConservativesBasically a plan to completely turn over the government with only those who have passed the Fuhrer's loyalty testGOP Primary now with more COVID COVID panic hits the Republican primaries | SemaforGOP on social media posting like it's 2021 and they are fighting masks againHitting the panic button on Biden? Not so fast say https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/12/joe-biden-age-polls-democrats-2024-electionWashington Times - which has become increasingly right wing, not just right leaning, article about Biden being cut off and ushered off stage in Vietnamhttps://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/sep/11/joe-biden-cut-mid-sentence-vietnam-press-conferenc/ Impeachment inquiry opened in the House, will include Gym Jordan and Missouri's own Jason Smithhttps://nypost.com/2023/09/12/mccarthy-greenlights-impeachment-probe-into-bidens-alleged-involvement-with-hunter-business-dealings/White House not concerned https://t.co/ouJmB8QKLrThe Fett Man seems unphased by this news (Video  & sound)https://twitter.com/noliewithbtc/status/1701639496498843932?s=46&t=mukZUfs5M_R3E9tAHIu-GA The non-Biden contenders listThe Memo: Five Democratic alternatives if President Biden exits the 2024 raceArticle lists: Harris, Newsom, Mayor Pete, Whitmer, and AOC as their 5Each presents their list of 5 Dem POTUS hopefulsSeanBig Boy from Illinois, Gov. JB Pritzker - $170 MM in last campaignCO Gov. Jared Polis - $13 MMKS Gov Laura Kelly - $8 MM U.S. Sen from MN Amy Klobuchar - $8 MM in 2018, $4 MM cash on hand nowNC Gov Roy Cooper - $41 MM in 2020 win by 4.5 pointsAdamGretchen Whitmer - MI GovRaphael Warnock - GA Sen.Josh Shapiro - PA GovJB Pritzker - IL GovJared Polis - CO Gov

@TheHeartlandPOD on Twitter and ThreadsCo-HostsAdam Sommer @Adam_Sommer85  (Twitter) @adam_sommer85 (Post)Rachel Parker @msraitchetp   (Post) Sean Diller @SeanDillerCO   (Twitter and Post)https://heartlandpod.com/JOIN PATREON FOR MORE - AND JOIN OUR SOCIAL NETWORK!“Change The Conversation”Outro Song: “The World Is On Fire” by American Aquarium http://www.americanaquarium.com/ Tim Scott seems to have just realized he's in the Republican partyhttps://www.businessinsider.com/tim-scott-responds-gay-rumors-unmarried-black-2024-campaign-2023-9Sen. Tim Scott, a 2024 GOP presidential candidate, is defending his unmarried status.It's garnered more attention over the course of the campaign, with some insinuating he's gay.Scott insists he has a girlfriend and says the attention on his relationship status is a stand-in for other attacks.Sad that Sen. Scott cannot simply be who his is, or is not. The Trump 14th Amendment Insurrection clause push is onLet's talk 14th Amendment Often referred to as the “substantive due process” clause and where you can find the “priviledges and immunities” language, along with equal protectionBTW why this isn't being mentioned as a way to challenge abortion laws, I'm not sure, but that's another showLanguage of 14th: 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Civil Rights (1868) | National ArchivesVery Smart Legal Scholar ArticleQuote from article: The Congress that proposed the Fourteenth Amendment rightly regarded the situation as outrageous—not only morally, but practically. If former Confederates held the levers of federal and state government power, effective “reconstruction” of the political order and any hope of extending the full and equal protection of the laws to the newly freed former slaves would be at an end.Section 3 is the insurrection clause: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.Potential problem: section 5 places enforcement with Congress to make laws that enforce the provisions of the 14th, but wording of Sec 3 seems to automatically attach, or be “self executing” in legal termsLaurence Tribe: If Trump doesn't qualify for insurrection clause, nobody wouldMinnesota challenge (just the latest similar in Colorado) Trump faces another 14th Amendment candidacy challenge, this time in Minnesota | CNN Politics14th Amendment challenges against Trump's candidacy mount as campaign pushes back - ABC NewsFrom law suit: “Donald J. Trump, through his words and actions, after swearing an oath as an officer of the United States to support the Constitution, then engaged in insurrection as defined by Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment,” the new lawsuit says. “He is disqualified from holding the presidency or any other office under the United States.”Trump's Final Solution Plan unveiledConservatives aim to restructure U.S. government and replace it with Trump's vision | PBS NewsHourFrom article: With a nearly 1,000-page “Project 2025” handbook and an “army” of Americans, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on Day One to commandeer, reshape and do away with what Republicans deride as the “deep state” bureaucracy, in part by firing as many as 50,000 federal workers.Plan to “flood the zone” with ConservativesBasically a plan to completely turn over the government with only those who have passed the Fuhrer's loyalty testGOP Primary now with more COVID COVID panic hits the Republican primaries | SemaforGOP on social media posting like it's 2021 and they are fighting masks againHitting the panic button on Biden? Not so fast say https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/12/joe-biden-age-polls-democrats-2024-electionWashington Times - which has become increasingly right wing, not just right leaning, article about Biden being cut off and ushered off stage in Vietnamhttps://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/sep/11/joe-biden-cut-mid-sentence-vietnam-press-conferenc/ Impeachment inquiry opened in the House, will include Gym Jordan and Missouri's own Jason Smithhttps://nypost.com/2023/09/12/mccarthy-greenlights-impeachment-probe-into-bidens-alleged-involvement-with-hunter-business-dealings/White House not concerned https://t.co/ouJmB8QKLrThe Fett Man seems unphased by this news (Video  & sound)https://twitter.com/noliewithbtc/status/1701639496498843932?s=46&t=mukZUfs5M_R3E9tAHIu-GA The non-Biden contenders listThe Memo: Five Democratic alternatives if President Biden exits the 2024 raceArticle lists: Harris, Newsom, Mayor Pete, Whitmer, and AOC as their 5Each presents their list of 5 Dem POTUS hopefulsSeanBig Boy from Illinois, Gov. JB Pritzker - $170 MM in last campaignCO Gov. Jared Polis - $13 MMKS Gov Laura Kelly - $8 MM U.S. Sen from MN Amy Klobuchar - $8 MM in 2018, $4 MM cash on hand nowNC Gov Roy Cooper - $41 MM in 2020 win by 4.5 pointsAdamGretchen Whitmer - MI GovRaphael Warnock - GA Sen.Josh Shapiro - PA GovJB Pritzker - IL GovJared Polis - CO Gov

Liberty Dispatch ~ September 05, 2023WE'RE BACK!... Unfortunately, so is COVID!?!?! Or, at least, that's what the media and our public health officials would have you believe. We'll tell you the truth that they don't want you to hear.[Segment 1] - The Lies: The Regime WON'T LET COVID DIE!:"As kids go back to school, experts say a 'tripledemic' looms: COVID, RSV, and the flu" | The Star: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/as-kids-go-back-to-school-experts-say-a-tripledemic-looms-covid-rsv-and-the/article_8199faf5-e5e0-56f9-ad75-3fa278dbcff6.html;"COVID-19 Fall 2023: What to Expect in Terms of Vaccines" | The Globe and Mail: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-covid-19-fall-2023-vaccine-;"Alberta Health Says Masking Will Be a Personal Choice" | Western Standard: https://www.westernstandard.news/alberta/alberta-health-says-masking-will-be-a-personal-choice/article_7d4eac18-4819-11ee-9e3f-b70f88c63d57.html;"Ontario Will Not Require Masks in Schools This Fall Despite Uptick in COVID Cases" | CTV News Toronto: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-will-not-require-masks-in-schools-this-fall-despite-uptick-in-covid-cases-1.6545914;"COVID-19 Outbreak Declared at RVHS Transitional Care Unit in Barrie" | Simcoe.com: https://www.simcoe.com/news/covid-19-outbreak-declared-at-rvhs-transitional-care-unit-in-barrie/article_e663c197-24ab-552a-89c9-96e846b24720.html;"Biden Administration to Reinstate COVID Mandates, Says Report" | Frontline News: https://frontline.news/post/biden-administration-to-reinstate-covid-mandates-says-report;"COVID Mask Mandates Return to Hollywood: Lionsgate Requires Employees to Mask Up, Submit to Daily Testing" | Breitbart: https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2023/08/21/covid-mask-mandates-return-to-hollywood-lionsgate-requires-employees-to-mask-up-submit-to-daily-testing;"Morris Brown College Implements Two-Week COVID-19 Mask Mandate as Cases Climb" | Fox 5 Atlanta: https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/morris-brown-college-implements-two-week-covid-19-mask-mandate-as-cases-climb;"5 Hospitals Mask Mandate Returns" | The Blaze: https://www.theblaze.com/news/5-hopsitals-mask-mandate-returns; [Segment 2] - The Truth: Jabs & Mandates Do More HARM than Good:"Exclusive: Health Canada Not Concerned About Scientists' Finding of Plasmid DNA Contamination in COVID Shots" | The Epoch Times: https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/exclusive-health-canada-not-concerned-about-scientists-finding-of-plasmid-dna-contamination-in-covid-shots-5449394;"Pfizer Documents Show COVID-19 Vaccines Contain Potentially Harmful Modified RNA, Not mRNA" | ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/pfizer-documents-show-covid-19-vaccines-contain-potentially-harmful-modified-rna-not-mrna;"Mask Study Published by NIH Suggests N95 COVID Masks Expose Wearers to Dangerous Levels of Toxic Compounds Linked to Seizures, Cancer" | Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12443319/Mask-study-published-NIH-suggests-N95-Covid-masks-expose-wearers-dangerous-level-toxic-compounds-linked-seizures-cancer.html;"The Rise of Excess and Unexplained Deaths in Canada" | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms: https://www.jccf.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/The-rise-of-excess-and-unexplained-deaths-in-Canada_Justice-Centre.pdf;"People Rarely Transmit COVID-19 Before Experiencing Symptoms: Lancet Study" | The Epoch Times: https://www.theepochtimes.com/article/people-rarely-transmit-covid-19-before-experiencing-symptoms-lancet-study-5485459;"First COVID Deaths Were Fully Vaccinated" | Rebekah Barnett: [https://news.rebekahbarnett.com.au/p/first-covid;"Deaths Involving COVID-19 by Vaccination Status - England, Deaths Occurring Between 1 April 2021 and 31 May 2023" | Office for National Statistics: https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusenglanddeathsoccurringbetween1april2021and31may2023;"Secret Biological Lab in Reedley Shut Down by Health Authorities Over Safety Concerns" | KMPH News: https://kmph.com/news/local/secret-biological-lab-in-reedley-shut-down-by-health-authorities-over-safety-concerns;"CDC Removes VAERS Database on Doctor-Reported Vaccine Side Effects From Website" | The Post Millennial: https://thepostmillennial.com/cdc-removes-vaers-database-on-doctor-reported-vaccine-side-effects-from-website; [Segment 3] - COVID Fallout - Good & Bad:"Charges Against Michael Thiessen of Grace Baptist Church Stayed" | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms: https://www.jccf.ca/charges-against-michael-thiessen-of-grace-baptist-church-stayed;"Justice Centre Pleased with Stay of Prosecutions Over Breaking COVID Rules" | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms: https://www.jccf.ca/justice-centre-pleased-with-stay-of-prosecutions-over-breaking-covid-rules;"Pastor Hildebrandt Pleads Guilty to COVID Charge" | Western Standard: https://www.westernstandard.news/news/watch-pastor-hildebrandt-pleads-guilty-to-covid-charge/article_1fa4c8f0-4368-11ee-94fa-57728b22053a.html;"Sheila Annette Lewis, Alberta COVID Organ Transplant" | National Post: https://nationalpost.com/news/sheila-annette-lewis-alberta-covid-organ-transplant. UPCOMING EVENTSJOIN US FOR:LIBERTY PODCASTS LIVE - Oct.23 @ Trinity Bible Chapel, Waterloo, ON: https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/liberty-dispatch-live-tickets-699808795947?aff=oddtdtcreator; & Oct. 24 - https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/liberty-lounge-live-tickets-701294319187?aff=oddtdtcreator;and...Spark Conference - Oct.31- Nov. 1: https://www.sparkconferences.org/;SUPPORT OUR LEGAL ADVOCACY - Help us defend Canadians' God-given rights and liberties: https://libertycoalitioncanada.com/donate/; https://libertycoalitioncanada.com/liberty-defense-fund/our-legal-strategy/;SHOW SPONSORS:Join Red Balloon Today!: https://www.redballoon.work/lcc; Invest with Rocklinc: info@rocklinc.com or call them at 905-631-546; Diversify Your Money with Bull Bitcoin: https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/lcc;BarterPay: https://barterpay.ca/; Barter It: https://vip.barterit.ca/launch; Carpe Fide - "Seize the Faith": Store: https://carpe-fide.myshopify.com/, use Promo Code LCC10 for 10% off (US Store Only), or shop Canadian @ https://canadacarpefide.myshopify.com/ | Podcast: https://www.carpefide.com/episodes;Sick of Mainstream Media Lies? Help Support Independent Media! DONATE TO LCC TODAY!: https://libertycoalitioncanada.com/donate/ Please Support us in bringing you honest, truthful reporting and analysis from a Christian perspective.SUBSCRIBE TO OUR SHOWS/CHANNELS:LIBERTY DISPATCH PODCAST: https://libertydispatch.podbean.com; https://rumble.com/LDshow; OPEN MIKE WITH MICHAEL THIESSEN: https://openmikewithmichaelthiessen.podbean.com; https://rumble.com/openmike;THE OTHER CLUB: https://rumble.com/c/c-2541984; THE LIBERTY LOUNGE WITH TIM TYSOE: https://rumble.com/LLwTT;CONTACT US:Questions/comments about podcasts/news/analysis: mailbag@libertycoalitioncanada.com;Questions/comments about donations: give@libertycoalitioncanada.com;Questions/comments that are church-related: churches@libertycoalitioncanada.com;General Inquiries: info@libertycoalitioncanada.com. STAY UP-TO-DATE ON ALL THINGS LCC:Gab: https://gab.com/libertycoalitioncanada Telegram: https://t.me/libertycoalitioncanadanews Instagram: https://instagram.com/libertycoalitioncanada Facebook: https://facebook.com/LibertyCoalitionCanada Twitter: @LibertyCCanada - https://twitter.com/LibertyCCanada Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/LibertyCoalitionCanada YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@liberty4canada - WE GOT CANCELLED AGAIN!!! Please LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE & REVIEW and SHARE it with others!

Liberty Dispatch ~ September 05, 2023 WE'RE BACK!... Unfortunately, so is COVID!?!?! Or, at least, that's what the media and our public health officials would have you believe. We'll tell you the truth that they don't want you to hear. [Segment 1] - The Lies: The Regime WON'T LET COVID DIE!: "As kids go back to school, experts say a 'tripledemic' looms: COVID, RSV, and the flu" | The Star: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/as-kids-go-back-to-school-experts-say-a-tripledemic-looms-covid-rsv-and-the/article_8199faf5-e5e0-56f9-ad75-3fa278dbcff6.html; "COVID-19 Fall 2023: What to Expect in Terms of Vaccines" | The Globe and Mail: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-covid-19-fall-2023-vaccine-; "Alberta Health Says Masking Will Be a Personal Choice" | Western Standard: https://www.westernstandard.news/alberta/alberta-health-says-masking-will-be-a-personal-choice/article_7d4eac18-4819-11ee-9e3f-b70f88c63d57.html; "Ontario Will Not Require Masks in Schools This Fall Despite Uptick in COVID Cases" | CTV News Toronto: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-will-not-require-masks-in-schools-this-fall-despite-uptick-in-covid-cases-1.6545914; "COVID-19 Outbreak Declared at RVHS Transitional Care Unit in Barrie" | Simcoe.com: https://www.simcoe.com/news/covid-19-outbreak-declared-at-rvhs-transitional-care-unit-in-barrie/article_e663c197-24ab-552a-89c9-96e846b24720.html; "Biden Administration to Reinstate COVID Mandates, Says Report" | Frontline News: https://frontline.news/post/biden-administration-to-reinstate-covid-mandates-says-report; "COVID Mask Mandates Return to Hollywood: Lionsgate Requires Employees to Mask Up, Submit to Daily Testing" | Breitbart: https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2023/08/21/covid-mask-mandates-return-to-hollywood-lionsgate-requires-employees-to-mask-up-submit-to-daily-testing; "Morris Brown College Implements Two-Week COVID-19 Mask Mandate as Cases Climb" | Fox 5 Atlanta: https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/morris-brown-college-implements-two-week-covid-19-mask-mandate-as-cases-climb; "5 Hospitals Mask Mandate Returns" | The Blaze: https://www.theblaze.com/news/5-hopsitals-mask-mandate-returns; [Segment 2] - The Truth: Jabs & Mandates Do More HARM than Good: "Exclusive: Health Canada Not Concerned About Scientists' Finding of Plasmid DNA Contamination in COVID Shots" | The Epoch Times: https://www.theepochtimes.com/world/exclusive-health-canada-not-concerned-about-scientists-finding-of-plasmid-dna-contamination-in-covid-shots-5449394; "Pfizer Documents Show COVID-19 Vaccines Contain Potentially Harmful Modified RNA, Not mRNA" | ZeroHedge: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/pfizer-documents-show-covid-19-vaccines-contain-potentially-harmful-modified-rna-not-mrna; "Mask Study Published by NIH Suggests N95 COVID Masks Expose Wearers to Dangerous Levels of Toxic Compounds Linked to Seizures, Cancer" | Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12443319/Mask-study-published-NIH-suggests-N95-Covid-masks-expose-wearers-dangerous-level-toxic-compounds-linked-seizures-cancer.html; "The Rise of Excess and Unexplained Deaths in Canada" | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms: https://www.jccf.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/The-rise-of-excess-and-unexplained-deaths-in-Canada_Justice-Centre.pdf; "People Rarely Transmit COVID-19 Before Experiencing Symptoms: Lancet Study" | The Epoch Times: https://www.theepochtimes.com/article/people-rarely-transmit-covid-19-before-experiencing-symptoms-lancet-study-5485459; "First COVID Deaths Were Fully Vaccinated" | Rebekah Barnett: [https://news.rebekahbarnett.com.au/p/first-covid; "Deaths Involving COVID-19 by Vaccination Status - England, Deaths Occurring Between 1 April 2021 and 31 May 2023" | Office for National Statistics: https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusenglanddeathsoccurringbetween1april2021and31may2023; "Secret Biological Lab in Reedley Shut Down by Health Authorities Over Safety Concerns" | KMPH News: https://kmph.com/news/local/secret-biological-lab-in-reedley-shut-down-by-health-authorities-over-safety-concerns; "CDC Removes VAERS Database on Doctor-Reported Vaccine Side Effects From Website" | The Post Millennial: https://thepostmillennial.com/cdc-removes-vaers-database-on-doctor-reported-vaccine-side-effects-from-website; [Segment 3] - COVID Fallout - Good & Bad: "Charges Against Michael Thiessen of Grace Baptist Church Stayed" | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms: https://www.jccf.ca/charges-against-michael-thiessen-of-grace-baptist-church-stayed; "Justice Centre Pleased with Stay of Prosecutions Over Breaking COVID Rules" | Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms: https://www.jccf.ca/justice-centre-pleased-with-stay-of-prosecutions-over-breaking-covid-rules; "Pastor Hildebrandt Pleads Guilty to COVID Charge" | Western Standard: https://www.westernstandard.news/news/watch-pastor-hildebrandt-pleads-guilty-to-covid-charge/article_1fa4c8f0-4368-11ee-94fa-57728b22053a.html; "Sheila Annette Lewis, Alberta COVID Organ Transplant" | National Post: https://nationalpost.com/news/sheila-annette-lewis-alberta-covid-organ-transplant. UPCOMING EVENTS JOIN US  FOR: LIBERTY PODCASTS LIVE - Oct.23 @ Trinity Bible Chapel, Waterloo, ON: https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/liberty-dispatch-live-tickets-699808795947?aff=oddtdtcreator; & Oct. 24 - https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/liberty-lounge-live-tickets-701294319187?aff=oddtdtcreator; and... Spark Conference - Oct.31- Nov. 1: https://www.sparkconferences.org/; SUPPORT OUR LEGAL ADVOCACY - Help us defend Canadians' God-given rights and liberties: https://libertycoalitioncanada.com/donate/; https://libertycoalitioncanada.com/liberty-defense-fund/our-legal-strategy/; SHOW SPONSORS: Join Red Balloon Today!: https://www.redballoon.work/lcc;  Invest with Rocklinc: info@rocklinc.com or call them at 905-631-546;  Diversify Your Money with Bull Bitcoin: https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/lcc; BarterPay: https://barterpay.ca/;  Barter It: https://vip.barterit.ca/launch; Carpe Fide - "Seize the Faith": Store: https://carpe-fide.myshopify.com/, use Promo Code LCC10 for 10% off (US Store Only), or shop Canadian @ https://canadacarpefide.myshopify.com/ | Podcast: https://www.carpefide.com/episodes; Sick of Mainstream Media Lies? Help Support Independent Media! DONATE TO LCC TODAY!: https://libertycoalitioncanada.com/donate/   Please Support us in bringing you honest, truthful reporting and analysis from a Christian perspective. SUBSCRIBE TO OUR SHOWS/CHANNELS: LIBERTY DISPATCH PODCAST: https://libertydispatch.podbean.com; https://rumble.com/LDshow;  OPEN MIKE WITH MICHAEL THIESSEN: https://openmikewithmichaelthiessen.podbean.com; https://rumble.com/openmike; THE OTHER CLUB: https://rumble.com/c/c-2541984;  THE LIBERTY LOUNGE WITH TIM TYSOE: https://rumble.com/LLwTT; CONTACT US: Questions/comments about podcasts/news/analysis: mailbag@libertycoalitioncanada.com; Questions/comments about donations: give@libertycoalitioncanada.com; Questions/comments that are church-related: churches@libertycoalitioncanada.com; General Inquiries: info@libertycoalitioncanada.com.  STAY UP-TO-DATE ON ALL THINGS LCC: Gab: https://gab.com/libertycoalitioncanada  Telegram: https://t.me/libertycoalitioncanadanews  Instagram: https://instagram.com/libertycoalitioncanada  Facebook: https://facebook.com/LibertyCoalitionCanada  Twitter: @LibertyCCanada - https://twitter.com/LibertyCCanada  Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/LibertyCoalitionCanada  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@liberty4canada - WE GOT CANCELLED AGAIN!!! Please LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, RATE & REVIEW and SHARE it with others!

The outrageous truth about establishment medicine and control of the media narrative, as told by Dr. Pierre Kory through the examples of the ivermectin follies and excess deaths after Covid vaccines. Also: how you can get help today. Subscribe to my two podcasts: “The Sharyl Attkisson Podcast” and “Full Measure After Hours.” Leave a review, subscribe and share with your friends! Support independent journalism by visiting the new ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sharyl Attkisson store⁠⁠⁠⁠. Order “Slanted: How the News Media Taught Us to Love Censorship and Hate Journalism” by Sharyl Attkisson at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Harper Collins⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Barnes & Noble⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Books a Million⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠IndieBound⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop⁠⁠⁠⁠! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sharylattkissonpodcast/message

The outrageous truth about establishment medicine and control of the media narrative, as told by Dr. Pierre Kory through the examples of the ivermectin follies and excess deaths after Covid vaccines. Also: how you can get help today. Subscribe to my two podcasts: “The Sharyl Attkisson Podcast” and “Full Measure After Hours.” Leave a review, subscribe and share with your friends! Support independent journalism by visiting the new ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sharyl Attkisson store⁠⁠⁠⁠. Order “Slanted: How the News Media Taught Us to Love Censorship and Hate Journalism” by Sharyl Attkisson at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Harper Collins⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Barnes & Noble⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Books a Million⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠IndieBound⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bookshop⁠⁠⁠⁠! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sharylattkissonpodcast/message

In this episode of the Enterprise Sales Development Podcast, we speak with Matt Bertuzzi from The Bridge Group, we discussed the evolution of the SDR role, current industry standards, and SDR program structures. Matt shared the latest results of The Bridge Group study, we viewed examples of successful SDR programs including well-defined career paths, cross-functional collaboration, and efficient tools and technology. This episode offers valuable insights for sales development professionals and companies looking to improve their SDR programs. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN How the SDR role has evolved over the years What are industry standards nowadays How other companies structure their SDR programs QUOTES “It's very difficult to decide to go inbound with enough volume that you wouldn't just give them to your as you'd want an actual team to do some qualification on the front end." - Matt Bertuzzi [12:07] “Well, the error of big burn rates is paused. I am hesitant to say anything's over, but it's retreating now and I think the one to one ratio would see that”. - Matt Bertuzzi [17:50] “But tenure is falling. And if tenure is falling in the ramp is not also correspondingly falling, then the productive time in seat has to fall too”. - Matt Bertuzzi [25:45] “No more office lines, but the trend was starting way before COVID COVID was the accelerator. You, it's just, I mean, everyone has been doing this for a while knows it's harder to get someone to want to engage with someone they don't know” - Matt Bertuzzi [35:15] TIMESTAMPS [0:00] - Meet Matt Bertuzzi  [4:10] - How The Bridge Group Billenial report was born  [5:40] - This year's Billenial report [11:40] - How companies structure their SDR teams [19:40] - The “nature” of the SDR role / The fall of SDR hiring as in recent years [25:25] - SDR average duration in their role [32:27] - SDR daily activities according to the Bridge Group Report [37:40] - Matt on personalization   [44:33] - Matt on SDR monthly quotas [51:10] - Connect with Matt CONNECT Matt's LinkedIn CIENCE on LinkedIn CIENCE on Facebook CIENCE on Twitter CIENCE on Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It was three years ago the world changed. The World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a pandemic. Since then, nearly seven million people across the world have died and millions more have been infected with many suffering life-altering effects. We're going to look into the mental health impacts, the mysteries of long COVID, the local public health response now, the political divide and if Congress can help us figure out the origins of the virus.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It was three years ago the world changed. The World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a pandemic. Since then, nearly seven million people across the world have died and millions more have been infected with many suffering life-altering effects.  We're going to look into the mental health impacts, the mysteries of long COVID, the local public health response now, the political divide and if Congress can help us figure out the origins of the virus.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Taylor's Website: https://taylorwilliamson.comTaylor's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/taylorcomedy/Taylor on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2743976/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAuto-Generated TranscriptsTaylor Williamson (00:00:00):They could have gone way harder on me. These real, these reality show contracts are insane. Like lawyers tell you, don't sign them like they have the rights to like, own your soul forever and things you make for the future and stuff. You can find the contracts online. It's really, really bad.Michael Jamin (00:00:13):You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin.Hey everyone. It's Michael Jamin and you're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This. I got a special guest today. I always say that when I have a special guest, but this time we have a world famous comedian. And now what does comedians have to do with screenwriters? Well, comedy writing, it's a form, it's a form of writing. Taylor. So we're here with Taylor, Taylor Williamson, who was, let me get you, lemme make sure I get this right. You runner up on America's Got Talent. What, what, how long, what, what year was that? BecauseTaylor Williamson (00:00:48):We, we just say recently, fairly recently. Recently in the spectrum of time, you know,Michael Jamin (00:00:52):Yesterday. And the how I met you was because, so we've been friends Taylor, we've been friends for a long time, but which means I'm probably not gonna be as nice to you as on this podcast as if we weren't friends. So you're just be far warned.Taylor Williamson (00:01:08):No,Michael Jamin (00:01:09):No,Taylor Williamson (00:01:10):, you're not gonna be as ni you're gonna be less nice to me cause we're friends.Michael Jamin (00:01:14):Yeah, it's the chat. It's all cordial. You're on our podcast. So that's how, I mean, it'sTaylor Williamson (00:01:18):Not cordial,Michael Jamin (00:01:20):But I wanna tell everyone how we met. So we, we met, I guess a few years back. It was, it was a w it was a little bit.Taylor Williamson (00:01:27):Sure, sure.Michael Jamin (00:01:28):And you had, you had just, I guess you had just won or, you know, runner up to America's Got Talent and comedian and you were, you were poppin. And so I don't remember exactly how, but you, our manager's teamed us up and you had an idea for a TV show based on your life. You were looking for writers. My partner and I met, we met our managers, teamed us up. We we met in kind of conversation. We liked what you had to say. And we thought, yeah, let's, let's try to develop a show and see if we can get it off the ground. And that's kind of how it works, is like, some people say like, well, I'm a comedian. Make a show about me. No, no, no. You don't understand. You were having this moment. You were, you know, you were, you were meaningful to the network because of your appearance on the, your, your success on that show. And that's how we went about it.Taylor Williamson (00:02:13):Right? No one else even wanted to meet with us. And then you guys seem so excited. I was like, are they playing a trick on us or are they terrible? , why? No, I'm, I'm have, I'm slightly, I mean, I'm joking about the mean part. Unlike you being serious about the mean part. Yeah, , there was one other fancy showrunner guy who was attached, I think, while you were also attached. And I was confused. What was hap like, why we have,Michael Jamin (00:02:37):We, we couldn't have both been attached. That's not possible.Taylor Williamson (00:02:40):I don't know. There was a guy, I'm just, I'll, I mean, obviously I'll tell you, we, you already know this stuff from years ago just to remind you. But like, there was another like, executive producer guy who was attached and then you guys, when we met with you guys as well, and everyone was gonna be a part of it in different ways. And I guess you would've been theMichael Jamin (00:02:59):Sure.Taylor Williamson (00:03:00):I guess. But then I thought he was, I didn't, I don't know what's going on. I, you know, I'm the, I'm the dumb comedian who's just all these, these, these Jewish people are telling me what to do. And I'm Jewish, by the way. I don't wanna sound like the new Kanye West. I was making a, I was playing along with Kanye. Wait, I playing against You're Jewish. Can you say me Hebrew Happy Hanukkah ,Michael Jamin (00:03:20):Hebrew . Dude, I wanna know, I wanna know. So Taylor's a, you know, com touring comedian. You work all the time. You tore the country. But I wanna know, I guess I wanna know how you broke into the business. Like how did you go from open mics to getting paid to do this?Taylor Williamson (00:03:38):We'll, we'll cut out the last 12 minutes. That I said so far, right?Michael Jamin (00:03:42):If you No, I, that's we're gonna lead with that. Taylor Williamson (00:03:45):. I feel like you have like real writers, those people that say, let me just say that. Well, are we just gonna talk more about that? I think that's interesting. WeMichael Jamin (00:03:52):Could talk about anything you wanna talk about.Taylor Williamson (00:03:54):I don't mean I, like, I made jokey answers to whatever, but yeah, we, I, it was, I think it's important to share this stuff. And I, I came up, I had to show idea that I liked and then my, my friend is I'm taking over the show.Michael Jamin (00:04:08):No, no. Okay. I'll get back to what we have. We got some time to fill here, so we'll get back to my questions.Taylor Williamson (00:04:13):Well, so no, I'm taking over, I'm answering your question, buddy. Yeah,Michael Jamin (00:04:16):I know, but I was steering the conversation away from your answer.Taylor Williamson (00:04:19):So then Jillian Bell, who's a great comedian, actress, writer person and mm-hmm. , she was interested in the show and and then she wanted to produce the show. That's right. Signed. It's a fun facts show business. I used to be with the management company that, that she was with, and I was no longer with them. And I brought this idea to them and my reps were not enthusiastic about it. Yeah. But then, so I, and I stopped working with them, but then a year later, Jillian Bell was interested in the idea, same show, then me go into their office with Jillian and then they're like, Jillian, this is a great idea. , I'm like, the show. ThisMichael Jamin (00:04:55):Is funny. She, I totally forgot that she was involved in it, but that's an, but that's right. Cuz she brought another piece to the puzzle. It was like, yeah. And you did, which was like, it's all about how many pieces of this puzzle can you, like, how much more can you bring to the table? And her involvement, the fact that you had this other, you know, she was a, she's an actress, actor, producer she's trying to get into the producing field and that was another piece of the puzzle, which made it more meaningful. So that's how Yeah. You weren't just like some random dude, you know, you kind of put these pieces together.Taylor Williamson (00:05:24):Yeah. And then obvi, I mean, she helped tremendously and I wouldn't have gotten to you and Siever if if it was not for her. And then we met with you guys and it was such a joy and we could talk about it as much as you want. But but anyways, but how did I start comedy? I, I was 17. I was like, I got into STEM comedy in high school. I never liked comedy as a kid. I remember being at the airport and the, as a child and some guy was like, I'm a comedian. Ugh. And he is like so obnoxious. And I've always hated that kind of comedy. Like, people are like, look at me, I'm a comedian. I got some jokes. You know? So I think that that scarred me for life. So I was like, I don't like, and my brother liked comedy stand up comedy, so I said, I don't like stand up comedy cause like dumb sibling ri sibling rivalry stuff. And it makes no, I'm not proud of anything. So I'm saying I still stand by hating those obnoxious comedians who like, tell it when the com Hey, I'm a comedian, nice to meet you. Like, you know. Yeah. I don't need that. And then then,Michael Jamin (00:06:19):But that's funny cause I always say like, people who have to advertise that they're funny, not be funny. You know what I'm saying? They have to put it on their business card, you know? Funny guy.Taylor Williamson (00:06:28):Yeah.Michael Jamin (00:06:29):But, okay,Taylor Williamson (00:06:30):Go ahead. And for the record, I've been saying I'm not funny. This entire, I've this entire convers we believe, I believe you . Fair. Good. I'm glad that's clear. Yeah. And then in high school I got into standup a lot as a being a fan of it. And then and then I'm from San Diego and rest in Peace. Her name is Sandy Seashore, Mitzi's daughter from the comedy store. Polly's sister had a comedy workshop in San Diego. And I'm, I'm 17. And I'm like, oh, that seems like a way to start, you know? Mm-Hmm. , I don't necessarily encourage comedy classes.Michael Jamin (00:07:08):Why not?Taylor Williamson (00:07:10):At first standup comedy, improv sketch. Yeah, standup fine. It helps you get your feet wet and you learn structure and stuff. But generally you're learn. I learned what not to do really. I don't, you kinda, there'sMichael Jamin (00:07:24):No structure though. What do they teach you there? You get comfortable learn on the funny, on the funny word.Taylor Williamson (00:07:29):Yeah. It's just like helping dissect. I don't know. Everyone has, there's no curriculum for comedy classes, but I learned a lot of things, what not to do. And I watched things being rewarded. Everyone should be like, this is not what I want to do. This is not right. And you're in the class with a bunch of crazy people too, honestly. You know? AndMichael Jamin (00:07:47):What kind of things do you learn that you, you're not supposed toTaylor Williamson (00:07:50):Do? I, as I was saying that I was like, that's gonna be a, a follow up question. I can't think of one, but like, rule of threes all this, I don't, I don't like the, I don't like these. It's just like, yes, those are things, right? But then also it doesn't have to be as such, you know? Mm-Hmm. I'm trying to think of like better examples of that. But here's the positive that I got out of it is if you're fat, talk about it. If you're skinny, talk about it. Mm-Hmm. and the, this is what I got out of the class that's invaluable, is that everything I got picked on in school was things that were like my superpower as a comedian or a writer. So like, all the bullies were like, Hey, you talk weird or you walk weird or you're a dork. And I, and I, I was able to spin all of those into, I go on stage, hey, so I'm weird and I, I talk weird and I walk and then people are like, we like you. And it's just kind of a beautiful thing to do comedy writing. It'sMichael Jamin (00:08:45):So funny. Yeah. This is what I say all the time to people, which is talk to talk about your vulnerabilities. That's what you want to talk about. And, you know, in screenwriting. But it's the same thing with standup. You know,Taylor Williamson (00:08:55):If that's, yeah. And I guess it's a standup that I, I, and I, I don't have better answers than this at the, off the top of my head cuz it was so long ago. But I remember like, it's like you learn to go like, oh, I'm half Jewish and I'm half Italians, so that means I like pizza that's on sale. You know? And then they go, right, great. Like, no thanks, come on. So it teaches you that kind of, but it, it does teach you what a joke is and it teaches you to get comfortable on stage and it teaches you what's out there. But I don't know, it can make a hacky hack comedian, you know?Michael Jamin (00:09:32):And then what came next? So it open mics after that you put together a five minute act orTaylor Williamson (00:09:36):Something. So I was k very tenacious and ridiculous. And I knew I was very, I did very, I was very good for my age. And this is also the time when not everyone's on Instagram and TikTok and all this stuff. So like, I was maybe one of the three 17 year old standup comedians out there, Uhhuh , like, you know what I mean? So I was probably the best music quotation of fingers. 17 year old com, I don't know. So I got all, I got attention and I was really good, especially in front of that supportive body. It's represented by their friends and stuff, you know? Mm-Hmm. , I didn't invite anybody, but like in that safe space, I, I don't know, I was very good at my age. I don't know, this probably sounds douchy, but, so I moved to LA to for college, but really for comedy. And it was very humbling doing an open mic that was not that safe space. And then the crowd wasn't so supportive. I'm like, what, what's wrong with you people? Oh wait, that's not real. This is real. You know? Yeah. But I got really good video footage, videotape, footage b you know, BCRs, those things. And who,Michael Jamin (00:10:42):Who brought the camera?Taylor Williamson (00:10:43):So the comedy workshop, you pay like four, 4 billion and then you get to do the eight weeks, then you get a tape at the end. So I got a killer tape. So I sent that to the, the producers of the Tonight Show, . I sent it to the last comic standing producers. I sent it to Eddie Brill, who booked David Letterman. So like, I was 18, I was, gosh, was it before I was 18. And didMichael Jamin (00:11:08):They they write back? Yeah. Did they reach out? What'dTaylor Williamson (00:11:10):They say? Yeah. Every time.Michael Jamin (00:11:12):, what'd theyTaylor Williamson (00:11:12):Say? These guys, every time I remember I never got, I don't believe I ever got them on the phone. Eddie Bri Letterman guy called me. I remember, I remember being in college 18 in the hallway. I had a voicemail from the booker for Letterman. Nowadays I would've recorded it and saved it. You know, this is like flip from time. So, and he was like, thanks for the tape. Funny jokes. Cause I remember reading somewhere that he responds to every bird, everyone who submits. And I remember he said, yeah, you can't do the AIDS joke on the show, the aids. It was like, you g it wasn't a AIDS joke, but it was like, the joke was, I was trying to be Bitch Hedberg at the time, you know, like brilliant one-liner guy. I'll show me one of those guys. So like, I remember being like, all these people are walking for aids, so I'm against aids.(00:11:59):I don't know. You know what I mean? Right. Some dumb joke like that. And he's like, you can't say that. You can't say that, but keep working at it. Whatever. And the Bob Reedit Tonight Show was so sweet and he seemed accessible to me cuz he was a judge on last comic standing, the first few, few seasons. Uhhuh . So he would send me the tape back, say, thanks for the tape, keep working at it. They would literally return this sender, but with a note and Thank you. And, and then the last time he called me or sent me like the third time, he was like, you don't have to keep sending me tapes . But he is still supportive though. You know, like, it was like, Hey, you don't have to keep doing, it wasn't like, leave me alone. But like, it was like, I think, I think he called me to tell me to stop chill, chill a little bit, you know,Michael Jamin (00:12:39):Give some, give some time. But then like you would, do you know if other comics who do this, like reach out? Is that how you Well,Taylor Williamson (00:12:46):I think funny shows, I think crazy 40 year olds do it now. I think. Like, I was cute cause I was young. Oh, I, I can't imagine what their emails are like now. You know? Now it's much of insane. Not well,Michael Jamin (00:12:56):But you wouldn't, you don't know anybody. Like, you wouldn't do this to get booked on any of these shows. Now that's not, ITaylor Williamson (00:13:00):Mean, I mean now I, I do, but I know the people Uhhuh, , you know what I'm saying? Now I'm like, I've done all these things. Would you please take a look at my, I ha I nowadays, if I wanna get on like James Cordon and I have the guy's email and I make a five minute tape and I send them a nice email, hi, I'm Taylor, I've done these things. Or how you been? We had coffee one time, whatever. But I DoesMichael Jamin (00:13:22):That work? Does that stuff work?Taylor Williamson (00:13:24):Yeah. I mean, I haven't been on James Cordon, so maybe not. But yeah, they, I mean, if you're professional in this business, like Uhhuh , I've a mistake that I've made, and I'm even sure my reps would agree, like, don't go through them for everything. Like I, I used to think you have to go through representation and get shit done. Can I curse on this show? Yeah. A a big mistake I made in this business is not using my personal relationships that I have and just reaching out myself.Michael Jamin (00:13:48):That's so, man, dude, it's so interesting. Cause I say the same exact things, but for screenwriter, like I say, people think that I get, I need an agent, I need a manager. Like, that's gonna change your life. And the truth is, it's not, you still gotta do 99% of the work yourself.Taylor Williamson (00:14:04):. I honest, I'm grateful to any of my reps who are listening to this. They're not listening. And I mean it sincerely, like I've been news for 19 years. So like, I have like old men wisdom, even though I'm not like a thousand years old yet. But like almost everything that I've gotten that was like monumental or big, big deal was without representation. Mm-Hmm. like respect to them for making the deals way better than it would've been at them itself or to, to them for making something. Mm-Hmm. taken to the next level. You know, that's their jobs. You know, I think most honest and classy agents and managers would agree that Yeah. Like they, they pour gasoline on fires, but you have to start the fire yourself. Yeah. And like, you gotta do it. And I thought it was unprofessional to reach out without them.(00:14:55):Now do, like, I'm, I'm selling unscripted shows right now. That's kinda what I'm hustling on. And I just say, Hey, Jillian told me this, or her sister told me this. She was a producing partner who's brilliant too. Like, yeah. She just goes, Hey, I had a meeting with, I'm making up, I had a meeting with paramount today. Oh cool. How was it? You know? Mm-Hmm. . So I, I call my agent agent and go, I said, I have these three pitch meetings today. Can you please reach out to some of these places I don't have? And sometimes I just go, can you gimme their email? Cause they have Rolodex.Michael Jamin (00:15:28):Interesting.Taylor Williamson (00:15:29):Interesting. Do I sound like a crazy person rightMichael Jamin (00:15:30):Now? No. And so you set up the meeting yourself? Is that what you're saying?Taylor Williamson (00:15:34):Honestly, I set up a, like I try to do it myself and then I reach out to them if I need help, even for comedy club bookings.Michael Jamin (00:15:40):Whoa. Let's talk about that. What do you mean for comedy book? So you have a, you don't have a separate booker forTaylor Williamson (00:15:45):Comedy clubs? I have a booking agent who's awesome and, but like, I just got a gig in Atlanta at the com, at the Punchline comedy club out there. And the guy texted me cause he knows me, right. I'm just long enough before I know the pe I know them. So I can just like some, some of these owners of comedy clubs, I can just text and say, Hey, I've done your, you know, I've done the club 10 times, you know? Mm-Hmm. So like, I've been there the 30 days of my life. I've hung out with these people. Hey, can I I'd love to come. I'd love to do a weekend with you guys. You have anythingMichael Jamin (00:16:15):Coming up? Is that, and is that what you do? I mean, you'll fly to Atlanta and you'll do a couple of shows at this one club? Or do you go on tour? Like, do you go from Atlanta to the next city, whatever the next city, Raleigh. I mean, we used to, you might make a tour of it or do you just keep flying back and forth to laTaylor Williamson (00:16:30):That's kind of, a lot of people are doing that now. Like, I mean, that's always been kind of, if you're like gym Gaffigan level or like mm-hmm. , whatever. Like if you're a superstar, you're, you're doing like theater, theater, theater, you know? Mm-Hmm. . I'm still comedy club level guy. Mm-Hmm. . So I do weekends. But a lot of these TikTok stars, like people who are getting like independently famous just from their social media, like yourself, honestly, they're, they're doing off nights at comedy clubs. So like, they're doing like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, they'll be in Cincinnati one night. They'll go to date in the next night. They'll go to Toledo the next night.Michael Jamin (00:17:08):Why Off nights though? What's that about?Taylor Williamson (00:17:10):Because the weekends are tradition. The business is changing so much. But in comedy clubs, the weekends are traditionally held for quote, established comedians. Uhhuh, the idea being that if some randoms walk in, they're gonna have a good time. Like, I'm Taylor, I'm a comedian, I've been on America Set Talent, I've done Economy Central, all these things. But like, if people just walking, cause they wanna see a comedy show, they're probably gonna be fine, you know? But like on a Tuesday they would book a TikTok dancer or they'll book someone who just got famous cuz they're really funny and people are connected to their jokes, but they haven't been around that much.Michael Jamin (00:17:52):But they can still put Get Asses and Cs.Taylor Williamson (00:17:55):Right. But also the other side of it, the business side of it too is if I do a weekend, I can get a guaranteed deal. Uhhuh. , that's enough for me to come out no matter what. If we sell lots of tickets or not, but the people going on a Tuesday, they could make more money than I if they sell every ticket. The venue is more willing to give up equity in ticket sales on an off night than on a weekend.Michael Jamin (00:18:18):And so what does equity ha like splitting the door?Taylor Williamson (00:18:20):Yeah. So like if, so a a comic who, if you can sell out 300, 400 seats or whatever the venue seats on a Tuesday night, you can say the venue give me 80% ticket sales, I'll, I'll fly on 80%. Yeah. Or more, you know, I'll come in on Wednesday, you get drink sales, I'll get the ticket sales And the clubs. HaveMichael Jamin (00:18:40):These venues have 300 seats or is it some ofTaylor Williamson (00:18:42):ThemMichael Jamin (00:18:43):A lot? Or is that just like the number of shows? Because I thought they're like, I thought most of these clubs are smaller.Taylor Williamson (00:18:48):A lot of comedy clubs now are switching to bigger venues because they're trying to compete with theaters. Okay. Because thanks to Netflix and social media, comedians are selling more tickets than they've ever sold. Ever. Like, like there was just, there's a poll star that just came out. This is public information. Like Burt Chrysler made 25 million touring last year. This year.Michael Jamin (00:19:11):Like we almost, we almost did a show with Bert . Yeah, we talked about it. Now he's 25 million. That's a lot of money. His house wasn't that nice. .Taylor Williamson (00:19:19):Well that no,Michael Jamin (00:19:20):It's wasn't 25 million.Taylor Williamson (00:19:22):Well now he has three houses. Neil Brennan just did a podcast with David Letterman bragging about how Burt er is killing it and let him in like was like laughing, rubbing his eyes like 25 million . That's probably more, that's legit. Probably more than he made doing his show. Legit, you know, andMichael Jamin (00:19:39):Just touring.Taylor Williamson (00:19:40):Yeah, just touring. And I mean, to be fair, that's gross sales before commission, right? I mean, as we all know, like that's before 30, 30% commission. You know, you're aging 30% commission.Michael Jamin (00:19:50):OhTaylor Williamson (00:19:50):Man. Tour manager, lawyer, maybe no lawyer for touringMichael Jamin (00:19:54):Your tour manager. They take 10%.Taylor Williamson (00:19:57):I'm, I said business man. So your manager takes 10%, your agent takes 10%, your business manager takes 5%.Michael Jamin (00:20:04):Well you don't need a business manager, but you need touring manager.Taylor Williamson (00:20:08):I, so I don't know how he does tour manager. I'm just thinking like, normal manager. Wow,Michael Jamin (00:20:13):This is so interesting. I didn't know this talk was gonna be as interesting as it is.Taylor Williamson (00:20:16):Oh, you know what Mr. But last thing I say is Bert said on a podcast that he said that just talk to him. You actually, you don't have to talk to him. Just talk to me. I'll tell you about him. He said he wouldn't take a movie or TV show right now. The wildest thing to hear a comedian say I get it. But like that's so not how we all started. Because he's making so much touring and he has, he has gigs booked and he, his fans, he has such connection with his fans.Michael Jamin (00:20:40):That's so interesting. Cause I've never ied to develop a show and it was his idea. And then he kind of, I think he lost interest of his own idea probably because he is like, I don't need to do this. I can make more money on, on the road.Taylor Williamson (00:20:50):Wow. Yeah. And it just, the dream is just different now. Like I started in 2003 and like I, my dream at that time, I'm sure we talked about this during one of our writing sessions slash therapy sessions for me. Yeah. But like, I wanted to do like Timal and Drew Carey, Ray Romano, all that, that you become a really funny comedian. You work hard and then you pair up with brilliant comedy writer like yourself and then you get a sitcom. And that's not how it goes anymore. Most people don't want to bolt at Cam sitcom even like Yeah. You know what's kind of interesting too? My girlfriend is an actress, so she's brilliant and then comedian and all the things. She's absolutely brilliant. And she's Filipino and she's, I said to her like, I had all these people I wanted to be like, and I don't know what to do anymore. You know, one of those things. And she's like, that's cool that you had people that you watched on TV that you wanted, that had a blueprint for you. Cuz I never had that. I was able Oh,Michael Jamin (00:21:51):So you're saying because she's Phillips there weren't any role models forTaylor Williamson (00:21:53):Her. There was no like, oh, I wanna be like that. I wanna be like that. It was just kind of like rufi respect. But like the guy who played Rufio and Hook and Tia Carre Respect, you know, I think she'sMichael Jamin (00:22:01):Yeah. Yeah. ButTaylor Williamson (00:22:02):Like, yeah. It's justMichael Jamin (00:22:04):Interesting. But she's an actor comedian.Taylor Williamson (00:22:05):Yeah.Michael Jamin (00:22:07):And does she, so she, do you, do you work a lot with her then?Taylor Williamson (00:22:11):We are pitch show together, actually, but no, no, she's not really standup. She's more of a Oh, she's a standup, but she's, she's an actor and stuff.Michael Jamin (00:22:17):So how did you meet her then?Taylor Williamson (00:22:19):We met doing standup like a million years ago. We, but we reconnected recently. Wow.Michael Jamin (00:22:25):Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And so you, and so I, so when you, when you talk about reality show or or unscripted, what, like, what are you, you don't have to tell me your ideas, but is that your, for you to star in some kind of unscripted show that you'reTaylor Williamson (00:22:37):Saying, yeah, please don't steal my ideas.Michael Jamin (00:22:39):I, you, I don't, I don't, I don't know anything about scripted. People ask me about scripted all the time. Like, I don't know how itTaylor Williamson (00:22:45):Works. I don't know how it works either, honestly. But it's what you said though. It's, you have an idea and then you get people, people go, I don't know. And then you get someone attached to people trust and they go, oh, that's a great idea. ,(00:22:57):You convinced the person who people res have, who has the equity in that field and status or whatever you wanna use whatever word you wanna use. And then and that's, that's what I've done. So like, I, the, the success I've had in unscripted TV is I had a travel show on Spike tv or a pilot a few years ago mm-hmm. . And I knew this guy Tom Beers, who's like a genius. He's like a mad scientist for unscripted television. And he's, he's got a really inspiring story. Like he became a superstar, like in his fifties. Mm-Hmm. . And like, he wasn't a millionaire to his fifties, but then he became like super millionaire. He created Deadliest Catch and Ice Road Truckers and Oh and a Thousand Ways to Die in Storage Wars and stuff. And he won the Emmy every year for Deadliest Catch. Yeah.Michael Jamin (00:23:42):I loved Deadliest Catch.Taylor Williamson (00:23:43):Yeah. And and so I, I knew him through cuz he was the c e O of Freemantle after he's sold his company to Freemantle, which produced a G T. So, and I had a holding deal with Freemantle and N B C. So I just reached out to him after I had some bummer business stuff happen. And I just reached out to him. Cause there was a nice guy who I know he saw me perform and he liked me and he was nice to me. And then and then he started his, I messaged him on Facebook. Like, I, like I don't have his phone number, you know? Right. And this is a few years ago. And then he, we met up and we brainstormed a lot and him and his partners and at his company and we got a pilot with Spike TV after. And it was like, this is like a two year process by the way. Like Yeah. It takes forever. It was a whole thing. And then you selling a pilot, I didn't get any money, you know what I mean? , I making a, I didn't get any money.Michael Jamin (00:24:41):Didn't make any, you didn't make any money at all. Went the budget of the show. Tell me what your, so tell me what a holding deal for the ever loved one. Listen, what exactly is a holding deal?Taylor Williamson (00:24:50):So I got the janky kind of holding deal you get nowadays, like I hear comedians from the nineties talk about their holding deals. They would get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to be exclusive to networks.Michael Jamin (00:25:03):Yeah. And never actually get anything made. But they would hear pitches or sometimes they would pitch. Right.Taylor Williamson (00:25:08):Yeah. So it's like you just, you they'd get pilots or they have shows built around. I mean, I'm telling you, I'm telling you know about the audience. You know, you tell the audienceMichael Jamin (00:25:15):No, but you tell me what, what your, what your jankyTaylor Williamson (00:25:17):Holding was. So I got the Janky Reality show holding deal where, and they didn't force it upon me. Like I was flat grateful for it, but I think it was $10,000. So from being America's Got Talent, they had the option, they could have gone way harder on me. These real, these reality show contracts are insane. Like lawyers tell you don't sign them. Like they have the rights to like own your soul forever and things you make for the future and stuff. You can find the contracts online, it's really, really bad. But they didn'tMichael Jamin (00:25:44):You don't sign those, you don't sign those contractsTaylor Williamson (00:25:46):Or Well, I did it when I was a contestant cause I was desperate.Michael Jamin (00:25:50):Well, that, well that's another thing. Okay. So you did sign one of those contracts, the A G T, but they don't own you now?Taylor Williamson (00:25:55):No, no, no. And it was for a couple years. And it's confusing cause I was on the show last week, but the contract ended after a couple of years. It's confusing. But yeah, theyMichael Jamin (00:26:04):They keep on calling you to back into,Taylor Williamson (00:26:07):Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. SoMichael Jamin (00:26:08):Heidi, I know Heidi loves you.Taylor Williamson (00:26:09):Yeah. she says hi by the way,Michael Jamin (00:26:13):. I know she does.Taylor Williamson (00:26:15):But so the, there's a contract that I signed that I'm sure is similar. It's probably worse now honestly. But they have the rights to like specials and ticket sales and all these things they could have claimed because like One Direction, Simon Cal owned one sixth of One Direction, I believe. Interesting. Cause they were an X Factor show.Michael Jamin (00:26:35):Right.Taylor Williamson (00:26:36):Right. So he, he put them together and he owned them. So they, but they didn't take a penny from me. But the holding deal was, they had the option for a holding deal and I could have fought it and they, I don't think they would've enforced it upon me. Right, right. But and I heard that kids can get out of this stuff. The crazy, if you're under 18, you can just be like, I'm 16, leave me alone. Whatever you sign. I think there's a thing I heard that's if you're a teenager that wants to be in a reality show. But so I, I had like a $10,000 holding deal, which my reps thought it was a good idea to go with it because I would be touring so much that whole year and then we could develop something. It was the NBC and Fremantle. Mm-Hmm. . I was frustrated by it because I wasn't supposed to audition for things outside of that. So I felt restrained while it didn't go the way I hoped it would. But because Do youMichael Jamin (00:27:25):Do a lot of auditions for acting parts?Taylor Williamson (00:27:27):Not as much as I like, but I do. Oh really? Yeah. I just auditioned for Caribbean Enthusiasm and I was so excited cuz I've al I've never been able to get that even on audition. And that's my dream to be on that.Michael Jamin (00:27:36):And so was that for casting or did you go directly to Larry?Taylor Williamson (00:27:39):It's all online now. Oh. So from my understanding, when you audition for Kir, you go, you go to Larry. Like you're, you play, you play with him. Right. But Right. Even like my cousin's an actress, my girlfriend, like the most successful p people, it's still on tape.Michael Jamin (00:27:55):Yeah, right, right. I forgot about that. It's been so long.Taylor Williamson (00:27:58):. Yeah. But, but even, even like an improv. So, but I'm saying that even like an improv audition, which is curb. Yeah. Like you just ramble with your friend that you're filming it with.Michael Jamin (00:28:07):See that's, that's hard, especially for improv cuz your friend, you have to play with your friend. Mm-Hmm. . Wow. And so, yeah. So, so how did you go from, I have so many questions, but how did you go from that first standup you're doing open mics to actually someone paying you?Taylor Williamson (00:28:24):I got my first paid gig about a year in like, I got a lot of, so I sent my tape to like, everyone you should never send your tape to like, like just cuz I had a, I was, I mean, looking back, I was very, if you go online you can find some clips. Thankfully that took out the problematic stuff. It was different time period. . Yeah. Yeah. But like, I'm not, but like but like I was very good for my age and like, so I sent my tape to people and then I got booked at the improv in Ontario when I was 18. That was my first paycheck.Michael Jamin (00:28:54):You to tape when you, okay, you say you're taped to Booker, to the owners of comedyTaylor Williamson (00:28:57):Stores. Man managers and agents. I contacted manager agency. Yeah.Michael Jamin (00:29:01):But is that okay?Taylor Williamson (00:29:03):You should not do that. It's not the move to do. It's insanity. And it's a different time now where you don't need toMichael Jamin (00:29:08):Do that. So how would, so how would you, if you're trying to break in, so how, if you, how are you today? Go get, if you're doing open mics for, I don't know if you're ready after doing,Taylor Williamson (00:29:16):I can tell you exact what someone should do today. Yeah. To post their clips on in my day. You don't post your clips. I remember when I, when I, I was submitting for, I made a tape. I'm trying to remember exactly why I made a tape. I uploaded it to YouTube at private YouTube. I don't even think private was an option or I didn't know how to do it. I don't know. But I uploaded a clip on YouTube and this is 2007 mm-hmm. . And I wanted it anyway, I got on Craig Ferguson when I was 20 in 2007. And I rushed to get the tape off of YouTube. Cause I didn't wanna have my jokes on YouTube. Cuz the, the thought back then was, and I still did fix this in my, myself, my head. I, I started like two a couple years too early.(00:30:01):Cuz the ti the, the business and rule the rules in our brain just changed so much. I don't know if you, if you, if you ever feel like that, but you, you're such an amazing job doing things the way you things are done now. But anyways, but we didn't want our ec clips online because we thought people are gonna come see us perform. They're gonna hear the jokes again. And comedy doesn't work the way music does. Where you want to hear the, the repeat of like, I could hear a Foo Fighters sing Everlong 12 times in a row. Be like, this is great. You know? Right. But stand up. You don't wanna hear the same joke 12 times, you know, so, but now, like, you want, you want your clips online and I struggle with that causeMichael Jamin (00:30:37):So Well why do you want your clips online? Do don't, I mean, don't you still feel like they don't want to hear your jokes again?Taylor Williamson (00:30:43):Yeah, but that's not, it's not how younger people are or anyone is. The consumers aren't like that now. I think they want,Michael Jamin (00:30:49):If you act online, will they go see it at a club even though they've already heard it? Yeah, they will. They will see it. They'll hear itTaylor Williamson (00:30:54):Twice. I don't think people hold on to joke memory like that.Michael Jamin (00:30:58):Really.Taylor Williamson (00:30:58):Yeah. And, and enough people, I think the idea is that listen, say best case scenario, even if you're famous, 40% of the people saw that clip you posted. They bring a date, they bring their friends. Right. There's gonna be enough people laughing where everyone's okay and their friends says, I love that joke. Oh yeah, I saw 'em on Instagram. That's why people be excited that they knew about it. And now people are into like, I'm old and I always liked if music was on mtv, I liked it. But if they're indie, I didn't listen to it. Which is so stupid and ignorant and not thank God as an artist. Other people don't feel like that, you know. But like, people want him, people like loving some Instagram comic now. And like I have a buddy, Ralph Barbosa, he's a really special young comedian. He's like 26 or 27 out of Dallas. He's been posting clips on Instagram and TikTok. He went from like 4,000 followers in April to like 160,000. Now in December when we're taping this and on TikTok, he has way more,Michael Jamin (00:31:57):He's posting clips that he records at a club.Taylor Williamson (00:32:00):Yeah. He's po he's selling out more tickets than like, I think than I sold. I don't know, I don't know all his numbers, but I think he's selling you more than I sold after being on America's Got Talent for a Year. You know what I'm saying? Interesting. He just sold out eight shows at the Hollywood Improv in, in February.Michael Jamin (00:32:19):And how many seats is that?Taylor Williamson (00:32:21):I don't know. 200 something really. But he sold them out months in, in advance. It's wild. It's wild. It's wild. And they gave him the Wednesday night cuz he's a young comic who's new and whatever. Then they gave him a slate, show ends it, then they gave him a Tuesday, they gave him LA show Tuesday. Then they're like, okay, you want the whole week . I haven't seen that since. Wow. Maybe Joe Coy or Gabriel Glacia. You know, that'sMichael Jamin (00:32:43):So interesting because, because you really are, you're, it's hard to get people outta their house on a week weekend, a weeknight. And yet they'll come out to seeTaylor Williamson (00:32:50):Him. I commented on one of his posts, he's this kid open for me. He's like my little opener. I say Little is younger than me, like, but like, he's like, he's a kid who, when I went to Dallas, he'd be like, can I open for you again? And like, you have any other gigs? And I'm like, you know what? He's funny. He's nice. I would take him to lunch and like, I treated him the way I wish people would've treated me when I was that age, you know, and younger or whatever. And and some people did. And it meant a lot to me, you know? And like I knew he's special. I knew he is gonna do something, but how do you know he's gonna be like in two years? You know? Wow. And but he opened, he was my opener in Dallas like seven months ago. And now he's like, he's gonna be in la I'm like, can I, can I open for you on your showsMichael Jamin (00:33:33):? IsTaylor Williamson (00:33:33):That right? No joke. You know. Wow. Like, and and I'm actually coming, I'm working on a, what's kind of special too is like me and Chip Pope, you know our friendship. Yeah, yeah. We, we were, I said to Chip cuz I, I talked to my friend who was producing a thing for Netflix, like a new faces type thing for standups in like February. And I was like, you gotta get this guy Ralph and audition. And so we came out for that and I was like, Ralph is so special, we gotta come up with an A show for him. And like, so we've been talking about it for a while and now serendipitously he's become like this little superstar. He's in Dallas and he's, he got represent, he's got the biggest agent and biggest manager. He didn't have to move to la he didn't have to move to New York.(00:34:13):He's staying in Dallas. It's, I'm posting on social media being funny and working hard. He was seen the, the Alleg. So anyways, but so we're, we're working on a show with him now, which I'm really excited about a scripted show. And wow. But the last thing I'll say on that is the confusing thing for me is it used to be you tap dance for like a, a, a gatekeeper. Like trying to get some kind of producer to like, I hope they were your email, they booked me or whatever, whatever. Now you're, you're trying to make an algorithm like youMichael Jamin (00:34:44):Well, but I, but I think it's more about, cuz I say something like this as well as people are saying, well how do I break into Hollywood? How will you read my script? Will, like how do I get a manager or agent? It's like, dude, all of this stuff you could do on your own. Yeah. You, you don't have to beg for permission. You just do it. Yeah. They do it and make it great and people will come to you.Michael Jamin (00:35:07):Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.Taylor Williamson (00:35:31):You know what's funny? It, it sounds k like easy for you to say or it sounds kind of like, like bullshit advice on mm-hmm. at first. Like, like how I used to, I remember they, how do, like an agent will they find you? How do they find you will get it seen by them? Well, we gotta get booked. It, it was just like, but what comes first? Chicken and their egg kind of thing. Whatever. And what you just said sounds the same, but now is like, someone's been around a long time. You're right. And it sounds not fair and it sounds ridiculous. I'm seeing it all day and like, can I tell you my agent, I, I'm with a great agent at a great agency and like they rep Dave Chappelle and stuff. He's not, I, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn for, I don't know. But like, I mean, he would come on and say the same thing. He would say, it's the somebody he told me a few months ago, if you're on tonight's show, it's not going to, it's not what it used to be. Right. My, I he didn't say this, I'm saying this, but I bet my agent would rather represent somebody who has a million Instagram followers than someone who was just on this Tonight show.Michael Jamin (00:36:32):Right.Taylor Williamson (00:36:33):And has no followers and but has potential and like they, you something special. It's not the current, it's a more valuable currency to have a big social media following than to have been on Jimmy Fallon.Michael Jamin (00:36:46):Interesting man. It's changing so much. It's, but see, to me, I, I would think that gives people hope because it's like you, you're more in control of your destiny than you think you are. You meets empowering, you know,Taylor Williamson (00:36:59):It's, to me, it's stressful for me. It's stressful because like, I was like climbing this ladder for so many years and then the the then like game changed. Everyone's on this other ladder. I'm like, what about this one? But this one, everyone's like, Hey, have fun over there, but we're over here. So beat them or beat them or join them. What is it? Join them or, IMichael Jamin (00:37:16):Don't know. Well, what is your, like what, what is your goal? What at this point you're traveling, you work all the time, every you work every week that you wanna work.Taylor Williamson (00:37:25):Yeah. You know, it's confusing coming outta Covid. It's confusing. I've had, I had like some almost things that went to shit cuz of Covid. I had like a thing that was supposed to happen. Like I was gonna start working for Fox. I always liked wrestling. You know, we talked about that and like, yeah. And I was gonna start being a correspondent on Fox primetime being like a daily show type correspondent. But for wrestling stuff, like talking to fans and wrestlers and celebrities and like that kind of thing. So I was gonna be on Saturday night primetime Fox WrestleMania 2020. And like, and then if that went well, it'd be, I'd be on the weekly Fox Sports show after that.Michael Jamin (00:37:59):But why is that? WhyTaylor Williamson (00:38:01):Is that Covid Covid shut down Covid? No, no audiences, you know, so then, right, that was on Fox. And then since, by the time then Fox canceled the show I was gonna be on before Covid stopped being closing down everything. And then by the time fans came back last year, w b kind of transitioned to n b nbc. So Fox is kind of like, we're not gonna keep making this kind of stuff cuz you're withMichael Jamin (00:38:26):Nbc. Well, why do you care? The, because is it more about the exposure about the moneys about the lifestyle or, you know, cause that's, it would've Fox comedy,Taylor Williamson (00:38:33):But I would've gotten to be a, a comedian. I would've gotten to be Taylor being silly. I wouldn't be work. That wasn't a job working for ww it would've been a job with Fox Uhhuh . So I would've been same as Frank Callo and Rob Riggle do for NFL's Sunday, you know.Michael Jamin (00:38:48):Oh, I didn't know that. Frank Callo isTaylor Williamson (00:38:49):That? Yeah, he's, I mean, Frank's been doing that for a year, for 15 years, probably. Like, oh, John Madden impression got like, blew him up. Yeah. That's probably, that's probably bigger for him than Matt TV maybe.Michael Jamin (00:38:59):Right? ThatTaylor Williamson (00:39:00):Sounds interesting. So, so that would've been a thing that led to more hosting opportunities and just like, I'm so grateful for America's Got Talent, but my struggle has been I, I'm always confused on these things. Am I supposed to talk about how great I am and how great perfect things.Michael Jamin (00:39:14):We, we talked, we're honest here on this podcast,Taylor Williamson (00:39:17):. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think, I think it's important to share stuff. And that's a, that's honestly another confusing thing in this business too, is it used to be, I remember talking to Tommy John again about this. Do you know Tommy?Michael Jamin (00:39:28):No.Taylor Williamson (00:39:29):He's a brilliant standup who's just become a superstar TV writer, producer, Uhhuh . And but he's like this killer stand up. And but I remember talking to him, we did Last Comic Standing in TW 2010, and I remember him saying, I don't respond to fan mail. You gotta pretend Brian Regan doesn't turn to fan mail. You gotta be like, you're Mick Jagger. You know, you gotta make the crowd think that you're famous. Like that's the, that's the attitude that people had. You know, like,Michael Jamin (00:39:54):But now it's not that.Taylor Williamson (00:39:55):Now it's like if you don't return an email, like, or a DM or don't resp, people think you're a jerk sometimes, you know? IsMichael Jamin (00:40:01):That right? You're supposed to respond.Taylor Williamson (00:40:03):It's confusing, especially during Covid, everyone's doing Instagram lives and interacting and stuff and like mm-hmm. , I don't know. I I need you. I don't know, people, people wanna be friends with you now or feel like they're friends with you. Yeah. I don't know if there's a point to this, but oh yeah. So now, but then now also people want to hear artists be vulnerable and talk about like, yeah, things are hard right now. Like yeah, like Covid shut down my career. I couldn't work for a year. Like, right. Some people, I don't know. They, they leaned into the TikTok and all that stuff. And for me, that wasn't healthy for me, for my brain to just go hard on that. And, but anyways, it is a confusing business and but I have a lot of cool things going on too, and a lot of potential things. AndMichael Jamin (00:40:48):So why did you, because you're from San Diego, so why did you move to LA then for that reason to be more connected to other opportunities?Taylor Williamson (00:40:55):I moved when I was 18 and I had to go to college. Oh. And I got into Cal State Northridge one of the greatest schools in the country. It's like Harvard. It's like Harvard and HarvardMichael Jamin (00:41:05):On the highway.Taylor Williamson (00:41:07):.Michael Jamin (00:41:08):,Taylor Williamson (00:41:08):Is that what they call it?Michael Jamin (00:41:10):? Maybe. I, they call the school that they don't call thatTaylor Williamson (00:41:13):I've never heard of. That's funny. But yeah. So I got, but it was my excuse to move to LA and I, I wanted to be, well, I thought that the owner of the comedy store's daughter likes me. I thought I was gonna be like, I was so a little bit too tenacious, like cringeworthy going for it, you know, like I remember calling the comedy store saying, I took Sandy's comedy workshop. Michael Jamin (00:41:33):.Taylor Williamson (00:41:34):Yeah. And you get it. But just knowing,Michael Jamin (00:41:35):But you're a kid.Taylor Williamson (00:41:36):I'm a kid. But like, just knowing who is answering out the fucking bitter door like phone guy, like, yeah, thanks buddy. You know what I mean? Like, they were nice to me. Actually, I remember I talked to the guy who, I think it was Duncan Trussel, who's a great comic. I think he was the talent booker at the time. Anyways. But I moved to LA and then I went to New York for a couple years. But now you don't have to live anywhere really. It's really Right. My, my girlfriend's an actress. She's living in Atlanta now. And she's on big shows. She's on huge shows. But like, that's where you don't because they they film in Atlanta. Right. You don't have to, you don't have to. It's really weird cuz everything I've , I'm talking like I'm 70, but like everything, the rules, it's completely like, like, like an, it's like a, like an earthquake and everything is all different now.Michael Jamin (00:42:27):Yeah, no,Taylor Williamson (00:42:28):I can, and it's not bad at all. It's, it's good in many ways, but it's confusing for like an old man like me. Like, wait, this is how it is. This must be how racist people feel. You know, like, yeah,Michael Jamin (00:42:39):Right.Taylor Williamson (00:42:39):We like diverse, we like minorities. Now what?Michael Jamin (00:42:44):But what I want have other things. I wanna men get to you cuz I, you know, so much to,Taylor Williamson (00:42:49):I don't sound sad, do I? I'm, I I think it's information to share with a fellow artist,Michael Jamin (00:42:54):Listeners. I, I think this is super interesting. Maybe I, I love this conversation.Taylor Williamson (00:42:58):I got a puppy for the people watching. It was a cute puppy.Michael Jamin (00:43:00):I don't think that's a dog though,Taylor Williamson (00:43:02):Sir.Michael Jamin (00:43:03):How dare you?Taylor Williamson (00:43:04):I enjoy your humor most of the time. But when you talk about the love of my life is beautiful. She's Jewish by the way. She says happy Hanukkah. WhatMichael Jamin (00:43:12):Is your name again? Your dog?Taylor Williamson (00:43:13):This is Betty.Michael Jamin (00:43:14):Betty. I didn't know that. I didn't know that was her name.Taylor Williamson (00:43:17):Well,Michael Jamin (00:43:18):You don't know why is she squint? Why is she why is she squinting like that? Why is she eye fucking me like thatTaylor Williamson (00:43:22):Sir? How dare you? She's, she's falling asleep cuz she's comfortable looking in your eyes.Michael Jamin (00:43:28):Oh, she's, ah, she's in transplant my eyes. I wanna talk because I wanna talk about how you transitioned from writing just jokes. Like you're saying you wanna be like, do a Mitch Headberg head.Taylor Williamson (00:43:38):Oh, that transition.Michael Jamin (00:43:39):Yes. But then not the other one. Not the yeah, not the other one, but you kind of, how you found your voice.Taylor Williamson (00:43:46):Yeah. That's one of those other things that people go, like, when people say how long does it take? There's no rules, but like how long does it takes you to find your voice? I think Pan, I could be making up a complete story, but I feel like he said it took 20 years for him to become like, to really find his thing, whatever, while people say 10 years, whatever, there's no rules for anything. Like you could have a car that's 10 years old, but you can drive it three times. That's not the same as someone who does 500 shows a year and hustles whatever. But like, and some people have, we've all, I started comedy when I was 17 and I was, wasn't a full human. So like I, I didn't know have things to ex life experience to talk about things. Everyone's and everyone's lives are different.(00:44:23):Whatever. There's people who start, there's this special guy who's he just passed away, but he was in his eighties shoot, I'm gonna find his name before we hang up on this cuz he's so special. He is worth mentioning. But he was 80 in his eighties doing standup comedy and he started, and he had all this to talk about and it was really cool. And I'm gonna talk to you while looking his name, but how did I find my voice? Is that the question? Yeah, yeah. I dunno. You just live your life and you keep doing it. And like the, my favorite compliment I get, and the first time I got this was really made me happy. Someone said, you're the same onstage as offstage. Like, well,Michael Jamin (00:45:02):But I would say though, from watching you, I would say you're onstage, you're 10% more thanTaylor Williamson (00:45:07):Yes, you are off stage. I mean, the way you're,(00:45:11):You're an observant Jewish comedy writer. So you can see, you can see that. Yeah. Ideally it's you with the volume turned up, you know? Right, right. So yeah, like, but I used to be, if someone's bored and wants to see it, like my first Craig Ferguson appearances on YouTube. So if you'd having Taylor Williamson, Craig Ferguson in 2007, I tried not to smile. That was my shtick. And like, that's the problem, like, cool problem. Like, it's not good or bad, but being seen early, you're being seen while before you know who you are. But then, as you know, as a writer or artist, this is always so frustrating to me. But now I try to look, I I have to remind myself that it's a positive thing. This is what, this is what I got from the comedy workshop. Sandy Shore said to me, rest in peace, Sandy.(00:45:58):She said, after my set, I destroyed my, my first set I demolished like, like it was ridiculous. But I'm saying that not to practice sound like an asshole. But my point being, it went so well. And then I walked up stage and she said to me, in six months, you'll be embarrassed by that. And I was like, fuck you lady. That's my head in my head, you know? Right. I didn't know what she's talking about, but I've learned, and I still feel like that when I listen to a tape of my, I record all my stats on the audio. I look, I, if I listen to some of them from a year ago, I used to go, Ooh. But that's good. That means you're getting better. You know, you'reMichael Jamin (00:46:28):Growing. How often, how do, how often do you write new material and how do you go about writing the material?Taylor Williamson (00:46:34):I used to be really good writer, like writing every day and all that stuff. And then cause I'm more, I really see myself as a joke teller, you know? And oh, by the way, answer your question is, you'll see how I evolve the second time's on Craig first, and I'm smile. I'm trying to smile, I'm trying on purpose to smile, and then I still remind myself to smile on stage. Right. And I remind WhyMichael Jamin (00:46:56):Do you feel like you have to, why do you feel like you're not smiling?Taylor Williamson (00:46:59):By the way, Marty Ross is the guy in his eighties who's really special. Look up m a r t y, Marty Ross. He's an 80 year old comedian. Anyways. But and and I, I think it's my, I was always just appalled by, I had such extreme judgment for comedians who walk on stage, like, whoa, I'm a comedian. You know? Like, I love Robin William. Like, like I love the legendary guys like that. But like, like I would do open mics and I would watch a guy go on stage and just b like give it his all. And there's two people in the crowd. And like, it just made me so uncomfortable. Mm-Hmm. , this is clearly my problem, not theirs, you know? But I think I have a, I don't know, I, one of my struggles as a performer is I, I don't know, I don't know how to articulate it. Like, I feed off the audience. Like, if the audience likes me, I work harder and I do better. Yeah. But if they don't like me, I kind of have like a Fuck you. I don't, I don't care. You know? Right. well,Michael Jamin (00:47:57):How do you go about writing your material then?Taylor Williamson (00:47:59):Yeah. I don't, I, I've gone kind of lazy lately in the last 15 years, . But like, I kind of work out on stage. I have ideas. I mean, it used to be even beginning of my lazy face, Twitter, remember Twitter used to be for jokes and stuff. Yeah. I was just like, oh, that tweet did good. I'm gonna try to turn that into a bit. But the problem with tweets, from my experience, for me, it was more premises than punchlines. Mm-Hmm. , like, I remember I had some joke, some tweet, they got a lot of traction. I forgot what it was, but something about like,(00:48:36):This cop keeps following me. He must really like me. Or I don't know what the joke was, whatever. But I remember just saying it on stage and it bombed. Mm-Hmm. . But I re I realized, oh, it's a premise. Right. It's not the funny part. Right. So that was confusing to me. But now I, I write ideas in my notepad just randomly. Then I go on stage and I fuck around and I kind of sandwich new ideas between between jokes that work already. So I have a, I go, I have a good opener. I open strong and then I might do two, two jokes. I know work, and then I'll just ramble on something new. Cause I'm also trying to become less jokey. I'm trying to become story storyteller guy, which is very, very terrifying to me. And I still haven't figured it out.Michael Jamin (00:49:18):That's interesting. So, because you don't wanna just constantly be testing out material because you wanna people, you also wanna show people your best stuff cuzTaylor Williamson (00:49:26):The Yeah. Like when people comes, and that's something I, I blows me away that like, there's comedians that don't do, like I work out the comedy store in LA mm-hmm. and like, we still have to bring it. Like, you can't go, it's not open mic night for me, but it is for, I don't know, George Wallace if he comes in, you know what I mean? Like it can be, but he's still gonna be funny cuz he's George Wallace, you know, but who I don't, I think I've seen there once in my life. I don't know why I'm using his name because I don't think he was gonna la but like but there's like, in LA you work out and then when, when I go on the road mm-hmm. , it's 93% ready to go. Right. And if the crowd's with me, I mean, I'll, I'll do something else. But I think as you get better and do this long, you don't bomb anymore.Michael Jamin (00:50:13):Right.Taylor Williamson (00:50:14):You kind of know how to, like, I know how to recover from a joke not working. Like I, I can bomb have a joke bomb, and then I can say something and then the crowd's with me and then I can move on. Like, like it never happened, you know? Right, right. Like, I don't let it, it destroy me or the performance.Michael Jamin (00:50:28):Yeah. I remember we, we saw you. I don't remember where we but club we saw you at, butTaylor Williamson (00:50:32):You probably the improv,Michael Jamin (00:50:34):I always forget. No, no, that's not Melrose. I don't think, I don't think it was that one. I thought it was like, maybe the comedy story. Is that possible? OrTaylor Williamson (00:50:41):Maybe,Michael Jamin (00:50:43):But you were so comfortable on stage, it really was like, wow, this guy's really, he knows w

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Keith Stump is the executive director of a nonprofit organization, Able Inc., that serves mostly persons with learning and development disabilities. Keith really began his career of service as an intern in Cambodia where he saw first-hand the challenges faced by disenfranchised persons who happen to have disabilities.   Eventually, Keith arrived at Able Inc. where he is helping the agency take clients out of more limited work environments and working to help them learn jobs around communities in Central California. The positive philosophy around disabilities shown by Mr. Stump is all the more remarkable since he does not have a disability but certainly has learned that all of us, no matter our differences, have gifts worth our time to enhance and bring into the world. Through Keith's involvement, Able Inc., as it went through a recent rebranding process, found and now uses accessiBe to help make its website more inclusive.   Keith has a number of stories he shares to help us all discover how Able Inc. is working to help make our world a better place for all of us. I am certain you will enjoy your time listening to Keith Stump's interview. I would appreciate you giving this episode a 5 rating after you listen to it. Thanks in advance.   About the Guest: Keith Stump has been volunteering and working in the nonprofit sector for the last twenty years. He received his MA in Intercultural Studies from Columbia International University where he did a deep dive into cross-cultural studies, world religions, and non-profit management and leadership. He is the Executive Director of Able Inc., which is an organization that offers life skills, job training and ultimately employment opportunities to individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Able Inc. has recently rebranded and is preparing to move into a newly renovated building in Visalia, CA. Before Able, Keith worked in Fresno on behalf of homeless individuals and families as the Chief Development Officer for the Fresno Mission. Before settling in California, Keith also worked with Bethany Global where he managed fundraising for family preservation programs in Haiti and Ethiopia among other countries. While living in Michigan, Keith worked with Samaritas where he advocated on behalf of global families, refugees, and local foster youth by creating a program for the recruitment of foster and adoptive parents that was eventually implemented statewide. Keith's career has always been focused on advocacy and building awareness around the organizations he has been fortunate enough to represent and serve. Keith and his family moved to the Central Valley four years ago, and so far, they love being so close to so much of California's natural beauty.   Social Media Links for Keith: Keith Stump - Executive Director - Able Industries | LinkedIn www.ableinc.org https://www.facebook.com/ableincvisalia/ https://www.instagram.com/ableinc_/     About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes* Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson  01:20 Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Glad you're with us wherever you happen to be today. We get to interview Keith Stump Keith is a person I met through a colleague at accessibe our nonprofit manager, Sheldon Lewis, Sheldon, who we also interviewed here on unstoppable mindset. Keith has been involved in the disabilities world for over 20 years, and specifically, mostly involved in developmental disabilities and so on. And we'll get to all that, because I'm anxious to hear what he's doing and how he got there, and, and all the things that he's accomplished. And I'm sure that it will be inspiring to all of us. But Keith, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Keith Stump  02:01 Thank you very happy to be here.   Michael Hingson  02:03 So tell us a little bit about you kind of how you got started and all the early stuff? Sure. Well,   Keith Stump  02:10 again, thank you for asking, and thank you for the opportunity. So I knew right out of college, quite honestly that I wanted to be involved in the nonprofit world, initially, that started on the global front. My background, really, up until fairly recently has been working in countries all over the world on behalf of refugees, immigrants, and many families, families that had children or caregivers, parents that had developmental disabilities. And so it has been very exciting to see that also translate here now that I'm working in the US. Again, I've always just had a passion for serving people and happy to continue doing that. So here   Michael Hingson  02:53 you are now in in the Central Valley in California. And that'll be an interesting story to hear how you how you got there. But how did you start out in terms of dealing with the global world and how you got involved in serving at that level? And then how did that translate into coming kind of more into a little bit more localized environment? Sure.   Keith Stump  03:15 So it all started with an internship in Cambodia. And I will say that I at that point really did not want to go to Asia, I had nothing against Asia, of course, but I thought that I would be working in a number of other countries continents, and I had the opportunity to go, I just decided, let's do this, let's see where it goes and what I can learn and, and that really opened my eyes, I will say first and foremost to the needs that were needs that were greater than just those that I was seeing here in the US. And certainly there are needs here as well. But when I started to see and at that time were in Cambodia, a lot of it had to do with human trafficking, there was a lot of trafficking happening with young girls, even young boys. And I noticed as I began to learn more and more that often people were children were put into trafficking situations because obviously their families could not support them or could not support the family unit as a whole. And so they felt they had no choice but to put somebody put a child into trafficking, which was truly tragic. The thing that I learned through that is that are really developed a passion through that for serving families. I learned that if we can serve the family unit as a whole, we'll be able to keep children out of these really tragic situations if we can provide them a means to support themselves and certainly children to be educated. We're, you know, we're basically on the way to fighting against human trafficking. And also what happened with that is I noticed that a lot of the families that were most desperate, were families that had children with disabilities, developmental disabilities, physical disabilities, and that really started I guess I should say my work In terms of focusing specifically on Family Preservation and working with families that had children with special needs,   Michael Hingson  05:08 so So who did you do this internship with? How did that come about? Oh,   Keith Stump  05:13 that was during my undergrad. And that was with Bethany global, which was out of Minneapolis. So I, I did the internship, I was in Cambodia for about a year I went with a couple other students, which was mostly a lot of fun once in a while, I had some drama, but it was a good time. And the great thing about it is I also met my wife during this internship, we lived in the same apartment complex. And so I worked with her aunt, at a local orphanage again, at that time, it was on behalf of some trafficking victims. And so one night, her aunt invited me over for dinner, and we got to know each other, and 15 years later, we're still married, we've been together for 17 years. So the global experience for lack of a better word has not only become something that I'm personally very invested, or I should say, professionally, very invested in. But personally, we get to go back to Cambodia a lot and visit her family. And it's been it's been good, I have a real passion for serving people around the world. And again, I'm very grateful that I've been able to do that locally here as well.   Michael Hingson  06:18 It's interesting that you say that a lot of the families that seem to be the most desperate are families that have persons with disabilities in them was that desperation also, in part because of trafficking or what   Keith Stump  06:34 it was because they they didn't, you know, often they didn't know what to do with those children. I know that sounds really awful. But that's that's the reality. And, you know, Cambodia was just sort of the tip of the iceberg as I as I finished school and really stepped into global work. Here in the US initially, after the internship, I worked on behalf of refugees and undocumented immigrants, but that took me all over as well. And then eventually, I moved into working with a family preservation program, spent a lot of time in Haiti and Ethiopia specifically as well as Cambodia, of course. And at that point, I really focus specifically on again, families that had children with special needs, and they just didn't have the resources, there were still a lot of taboos around folks that had disabilities. Specifically in Ethiopia, I'll be honest with you, a lot of it had to a lot of the taboos rose around a person's religious beliefs, they felt that if not everyone, certainly, but many people feel that if there is a disability in the family, especially with a child, the parents probably did something wrong. And so fighting against those stigmas, again, in any country can always be a challenge. And what happens with that, then is if the family feels that they did something wrong, they are unfortunately, sometimes very quick to push that child into a very desperate situation, right. So if the child can be traffic, they may do that. Simply again, to earn a little bit of extra money, which is, of course, truly tragic. I always remind folks that it's easy to beat these parents up. But then when you see what they're dealing with, and often, many of them are in extreme poverty and have seven or eight other kids. As tragic as it is, you can start to see how how that really desperate road has taken.   Michael Hingson  08:24 And unfortunately, the child with the disability is the Well, I was gonna say the loser, but everyone loses in that kind of situation, because we don't realize the gifts that maybe that child with a disability really brings to the world or could bring to the world if given the opportunity. Absolutely, yes. And so then we have that challenge. And it happens worldwide. It happens all over and it and happens in this country, sometimes in a more subtle way. But it happens in this country as well that kids with disabilities, kids who are different are just not treated the same. They're not given the same opportunities. And there's a lot of disservice that somehow we need to address as well. Yes, yeah, absolutely. So you came back from that, and then what? Well, so keep   Keith Stump  09:19 in mind that was that was over a period of oh, about 15 years. And so we eventually landed here in the Central Valley, where I am now in Visalia, California. My wife also has family here. And so I have young children and we decided it's time to settle down. We were both traveling a lot specifically me. And I have had the opportunity now to be with Able Inc. Able is an organization that works specifically here in Tulare County and Visalia on behalf of individuals who have developmental disabilities specifically, and so we teach life skills, independent living money management, and then we also do job training and job plays. smell. And so it has been really amazing to be able to do this close to home as much as I love global work, I was certainly at a place in my life where my kids needed to see me more, I wanted to see them more. And being able to do essentially the same work. Like you said, some of the challenges are different. But it's, the challenges are still very real. There's plenty of taboos here to deal with as well. But being able to do it locally, and in my own community, my wife and I recently just bought a house, and we're really plugged in here. And looking to get more plugged in. That has been exciting because I've actually never had that opportunity. As much as I worked globally or on behalf of a state or, you know, nationally, on some level, I was always, I was always in a different place, right. So I would go in, I would see the same people for a couple of weeks, and then I would have to fly out. And now that I get to do this in my community and spend time with amazing individuals on a daily basis. It's been it's been a lot of fun. It's been very exciting as well,   Michael Hingson  10:56 how long is able been around as an organization.   Keith Stump  11:00 Able has been around since 62. And so we are getting ready this year, in fact, to celebrate our 66   Michael Hingson  11:07 years. And what is able stand for?   Keith Stump  11:10 Well, quite honestly, Able stands for for. And I'm gonna explain it this way because we recently rebranded and one of the coolest things with the rebrand is we use the word we used to be able industries incorporated. Now we just go by Able. And during the rebrand process, we ended up coming up with a new logo and all of that, but the word Able really came to the forefront. And our during that process, our designer came up with Able period, they put a period at the word eight after the word Able. And that was something that our board really grasp onto was this idea we are able period we are able there's finality there enough said we are able to be part of the community just like everybody else, and in many cases contribute sometimes more than everybody else. So it simply means Able, it simply means that we are about being in a community and we are here to be recognized. And we are able just like everybody else. So it's not an acronym it is able. Yeah, yeah, that's which is literally which Yeah, which is as good as it gets, right? Yes, yes.   Michael Hingson  12:13 So what exactly does Able do?   Keith Stump  12:16 There's essentially three programs that we have right now. And we essentially offer these programs to folks wherever they may be. So the first step in our program is again, life skills, independent living skills, money management, how to cook, that's more of a classroom setting. So that would be our first step. The second step is actual job training. And I know that many organizations like Able , sort of our industry as a whole has a reputation for sheltered workshops. Able does not have a sheltered workshop, when I say job training, we're not, we don't have people in a shop that are assembling pieces for production and kind of doing the same thing all day, we're actually out in the community. So we are very integrated. We have big contracts with our city parks with Best Buy a huge distribution center, we do a lot with craft, we've got a lot of local businesses and nonprofits that we partner with. And they, they give us opportunity to do on the site, job training, paid training. And then once a individual is ready once they've gone through that program. And our goal is to help them learn a job for about two years. And it's as you know, it's not just about learning the job, some individuals learn that job very quickly, I mean, much quicker than certainly I could if I was in their shoes, but there's some additional social skills that really need to be learned soft skills sometimes are the biggest challenge. So once someone completes the job training, they are eventually placed in a actual job. So community or I'm sorry, competitive, integrated employment, we do have a lot of acronyms. CCIE is where essentially somebody finishes the program, they're placed in a full time job. And we continue to provide case match case management, we provide additional insight, sometimes we have found and I'm sure you know this, but our community loves hiring our people. But there's some there's sometimes a little bit scared to do it. And that's okay. There's sometimes a little bit worried about how to manage somebody that may have a bad day that doesn't have all the soft skills. We've worked to train them in that but we all we all have off days. And so the case manager really is a mediator between the individual that is with us and the employer. And so we have very long standing relationships with employers in our community a and w is a great example. There's a gentleman here that owns four different franchises, and he has employed our folks for over 15 years now. One of one of our staff actually our one of our folks actually stayed with him for 10 years. And so everybody loved her everybody, you know would show up at a NW and they actually they absolutely love what we do because as you know, folks, in many cases that have have what we call developmental disabilities are some of the nicest people you're ever going to meet. And so once once they're plugged into a job, they're also very committed to it. So retention is good as well. So we have a lot to give back to our community. And that has been key as well as, as a nonprofit being able to say, we're not just asking, it's very easy to always want to be on the receiving end of things. But to say, actually, we have something to give back. And by the way, if you are a business who wants to employ our folks, you're going to, you're going to learn far more from them than then you will teach. And I feel that way personally, as well.   Michael Hingson  15:35 And the people who get hired, gets the same wages as everyone else, they get a competitive wage and so on. Of course, yes. Yeah. And I asked that because you mentioned sheltered workshops. And I don't know whether everyone in our listening audience is familiar with what sheltered workshops were in our and so on, can you maybe describe that a little bit?   Keith Stump  15:58 Yeah, and enable did have a sheltered workshop, pretty much every organization or in this industry, I think at one point they were they were very common, especially back in the 60s, when Able started, there was unfortunately, a lot of taboo and around stigma around people that had developmental disabilities. And there was this idea that these folks are not going to find jobs in the real world, for lack of a better word, they're going to struggle to be integrated. And so let's create a safe space for them where they can can work and often be paid Yes, less than minimum wage, they're paid by piece rate, or that's traditionally what happened, where they can work and be paid based on what they're producing. But unfortunately, many of those places ended up being It wasn't intentional. In many cases, I really think that people started out with the right intentions, it was a very different time. And again, Abel, Abel had a sheltered workshop as well. And I respect what had happened there. I had seen it. Part of what I did recently was what our team did recently was to move on. beyond that. So I think intentions were right, I certainly feel that way with APR. But unfortunately, in some cases, there was abuse. And you had folks that were, you know, essentially doing the same thing every day. And they were being paid less than minimum wage, they were being paid based on what they're being paid piece rate, which basically means they were being paid based on their productivity or what the organization or the state deemed productivity. The the crazy thing about that is, in recently, Trevor and Trevor Noah actually did a story on this when sheltered workshops were really brought to light in the last year, and the laws have changed. But none of us are 100%. productive, right? It's not, it's not reasonable to expect that every single day we go to work, we're going to be able to give 100% some days, we may get 5060, some days 120. But it really was a very, it was very unfair to the individuals who worked in those in those sheltered workshops, because as you can imagine, they're being held to a standard that really not everyone else is and it's not fair to look at a human being just based on what we consider productivity. And so I am very glad that the industry as a whole has moved beyond that. And although there's some challenges with that, I am, I have, you know, certainly enable has as well readily embrace those challenges. So it's it's fairly recent, it's fairly recent. And, again, it's exciting to see folks move beyond that, because I'll be transparent. I feel personally, I'm newer to ABL, but I feel personally that it should have happened quite a while ago, and that the industry as a whole should have should have moved beyond that a long time ago, and maybe it maybe it shouldn't have been, again, different time different place. I'm not going to comment on how it worked in the past. But certainly, it's one of those deals now that we know better, we can do better,   Michael Hingson  18:55 right? Well, the, of course, part of the issue was sheltered workshops. And I'm familiar with them as well from the blindness standpoint, because sometimes departments of rehabilitation and other forces would shunt blind people into sheltered workshops and other people with other so called disabilities, because the feeling was that we could not be productive. And the whole point of the workshop is that it began with the Javis Wagner eau de Act back in 1938, when the whole concept of workers rights and employment and work weeks, and so on, and minimum wage, and so on, were all created. And the idea was that the workshop was supposed to be a training place where people who might not have the same opportunities as others, and I think it was intended to be something with the with with the right attitude and the right intentions, but the intent was that the workshops would be a place where people could go to get trained, and then they would go out into the, to the workplace. But unfortunately, a number of the workshop people decided to take it further and there was also a minimum wage. As I recall, if you were put into a workshop, initially, you would get three quarters of the wage that others would get in competitive employment. And the whole idea was, it was a training facility. Yeah, but then workshop, people evolved it to lower the minimum wage to the point where eventually it got to be that there was no minimum. And, and people were being paid blind people, for example, 22 cents an hour to make brooms. And as you pointed out, there was the whole issue of the productivity, the peace, productivity rate, and they had some very bad standards for how they determined how competitive a person could be. So it was a very unfortunate thing. And it is something where most of the country is recognizing the value that Able did, of getting away from the workshop and going out into the regular community, because people can be competitively employed.   Keith Stump  21:11 And it's great for the community. I mean, again, I will tell you that I'm just gonna say it. But this idea and this stigma that was there in the past that we have to keep people safe, that we almost have to keep them locked away from the general population is truly tragic, because now that we're and we have been out and about for 20 years now. But now that we also have the site of our employment training, where we're out in the community and integrated, it is super exciting to see and to be part of something where folks could say, Hey, I recognize you from when you were in the parks, or you were at BestBuy or what have you, and, and again, our community really loves people and loves the people that we serve. So it truly would be tragic to keep them in a warehouse all day. I don't know how else to say that not only for their own sake, but because they have so much to give back.   Michael Hingson  22:00 Well, and I think in general, you will well, people would find that these people are brighter than you think. And they know absolutely. They know when they're being shunted away. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was on the board of the Fort Worth Lighthouse for the Blind for nine years and just rotated off earlier this year. But the lighthouse for a while, had a sheltered shop. And not while I was on the board that had long gone away, I think back in 2004, was when the workshop was eliminated, because they discovered, rightly so that, in reality, people can work competitively. It's all about setting the stage. It's all about proper training. And I know of other agencies and so on that have gone the same way. Because the reality is, everyone has gifts, and what we need to do is to match the gifts to the job.   Keith Stump  23:00 Yes, absolutely. Now there are many, there are many things that I see our our folks do. And this is true for staff. This is true for trainees, I mean, we hire our trainees as well. And there are things that they're much better at than I am. So we learn together. Everybody has different skills. Now your job at Able is I'm the executive director. And so it's slowly being at the top, isn't it? It can be Yeah, it can be we have a phenomenal management team. But we are going through a lot of changes in organization, not only as our industry changing, which for me is exciting, because I'm not necessarily you know, the domestic industry is very different than the global I don't I have to be careful with that word industry. But the service that we provide is very different here than what I was able to do globally. So there's it's very exciting to have more resources. On the flip side, there's far more red tape. So so that has been that has been interesting. It's been a learning experience. But it's been very good. And again, our management team is very good. Very, very grateful for each of them. And we're in the process of moving as well. We rebranded a year ago. So Able is looking quite different. And our programs have changed a lot. And we have to move we have a new building, just in the last year. So   Michael Hingson  24:21 well tell us about the move. That's a that's an interesting thing. i You had mentioned it before. So why Why move what's what's happening?   Keith Stump  24:29 Yeah, so a couple things. So first of all, we want all of our campuses to be together. We have two campuses right now, our life skills program is on one campus, and then our other programs are here at the campus where I am. And so we want everybody to be together. We really want again, the whole program as a whole to be integrated as well. The other thing is that Able, the building that we're currently in did have a sheltered workshop. So obviously we don't need that anymore. And And then the third thing is with COVID. Like everybody else we found that we can do far more remotely. And actually, most of our jobs, obviously, the job. And I will say all of the jobs, actually all of our job training programs and the jobs that we actually provide to folks that we help place them into, unless we hire them personally, they're all off site. They're all remote, right? Because we're actually out in the community. So we don't need the space that we once did. The largest part of what we do is our Community Employment Services, crew, and they're hardly here, which is a good thing, because that means they're out working in the community. So so we didn't need the space. We we downsized to some extent, but because we, we are now consolidating both campuses into one, we're still in a good size building. It's about 37,000 square feet. But we didn't need the space that we did, we learned that we can be more efficient by being out there. And now moving forward, we can all we can all be together, we're still in the community, we only moved about a mile and a half north. And it's been exciting. We're renovating a brand new building. So good times.   Michael Hingson  26:05 So the the whole idea of being out in the community, of course, does a lot to educate people. Do you have some stories of just some great successes that you've had and how people who aren't normally associated with disabilities suddenly discovered that maybe things aren't as bad as they think?   Keith Stump  26:28 Yeah, I think so in terms of the community, and just building awareness. It happens almost every day, I will say that we are very lucky, very lucky. We recently hired a coordinator of public public relations and fundraising. His name is James and he and I are out in the community on a regular basis. And I will tell you that first and foremost, there's still a lot of stigma, stigma not around our folks, but around ABL and whether or not we are Are we one of those organizations that had a sheltered workshop. Just recently, actually, somebody said to both of us on the same day, two different individuals, oh, Able, you guys are the ones that lock people in the warehouses, and they can work and make money all day like, well, we're not locking anybody anywhere. We never did. But yes, there was that in the past. And so probably the biggest thing that I get to do again, on a daily basis alongside James is build awareness and tell stories about what's actually happening today. And then we get to take folks out in the community and introduce them to our, our people. And so I think practically a great example of that is we recently partnered with our local minor league baseball team in Visalia rawhide. And they have six interns, or they did during the season, the season ended a couple days ago, but they had six interns, that were part of Able, and for the most part, it went phenomenally well, they are looking to bring them on for future events, and then certainly hire them. And so that has that has been something really exciting to see is, is not just to partner with sort of our usuals, we really, really value those individuals that we've worked with those partners that we've had for years, but to be able to go out to community and to be part of what rawhides is doing not just as interns, not just as staff, because again, rawhides will hire our folks. But to also go out there and we had a we had a night that was just for ABL it was called free to be me night, we set up our booths, and we give things away every single Friday night home game. And so that's a practical example of not only a business embracing our people and interning them hiring them, but then also saying we love what Abel does, let's bring you went to the larger community and talk about what you're doing on a weekly basis. And there's two interns specifically that that work there they're six total, but two of them are really a delight. They're all awesome. So I want to I want to be careful about that. But these are the two the brothers and sister. They are a lot of fun. And I tell you, you see them walk around the park and do their job. And it's just exciting. It's also fun. I'm at the booth off, and we haven't able booth setup. They're kind of its standard now. And it's awesome. It's great having them come by and talk to folks and obviously our individuals, the people that have been through our program or or are in our program. They're the best representatives of of what we do. There are challenges, obviously, is to be expected, right? I think of the relationship we have with Best Buy a huge distribution center here. We've worked with them for years. And there are times that, you know, there's things that we need to we need to work out we need to improve, we need to help folks understand what it means to work a second or third shift. But these are all practical skills that we get to teach one individual Her name is Marley. She's been with our program for a very long time. And she's been at Best Buy I believe for over 10 years now and she is somebody who takes her job extremely seriously but is one of the most fun people you're ever going to meet. So there's certainly success stories and there's certainly stories of challenge The parks right now have been very difficult, because Visalia really has a challenge right now with transient folks. And so what does it mean for us to clean our local parks, when we also have an issue with, you know, engaging with folks that may be homeless or what have you. And unfortunately, that's not always safe. So that's something that we've really had to embrace is able and say, should we still be doing this, we've worked very closely with the city parks with the city of Visalia to, to make sure that people are safe. And it is a balancing act, because we want individuals to be out there in the real world, we want them to be seen. Our parks crews are probably easily the most recognizable because all of our trucks are branded, and people see them out there every day. And so again, we have really focused on just putting our people out there like everybody else, not of course, in an exploitive way, but saying, These are jobs that we can fulfill. And again, I'm very excited about the fact that we've been able to do that. I mean, honestly, our Community Employment Services crew is is really rising above and beyond, it's very exciting to see them build relationships, and not just with businesses, but local nonprofits. So we, we partner with Happy Trails, which is a organization here locally that does therapeutic riding, horse horseback riding, they've given so much to us over the years, we've given a lot to them, we essentially have the same clients. The source LGBT resource center is another organization that we work very closely with. There's a lot of crossover with the people they serve and the people we serve. And so building awareness around our people in the Partnerships has been really exciting. It's been very exciting to see Visalia or Tulare County as a whole really embrace us.   Michael Hingson  31:47 So what job does Marly do at BestBuy? She does a   Keith Stump  31:51 number of different jobs. But right now she is basically, she's still she drives a tug, I believe. And she's collecting cardboard and various various items like that and recycling them. But they rotate. Sometimes they're stalking sometimes they're driving the tug, sometimes they're cleaning. Sometimes I know in the past, we've had people on the line as well. So Best Buy is it's a distribution center. So there actually is an amazing place. Actually, that's where you go and you see these huge TVs and iPads. And so this is this is like Santa's workshop.   Michael Hingson  32:27 Yeah. boxes and boxes and boxes of all of that stuff, too. Yes, yes. And so that's the center. That's a distribution center then sends things to the local stores.   Keith Stump  32:37 Yeah, they cover the entire west coast. Yeah, they've been a great partner.   Michael Hingson  32:41 And so the the folks that work at the rawhides, what do they do?   Keith Stump  32:46 So they basically help. They help with some maintenance, they help with facilities, they help with cleanup, they also help with sales and that sort of thing as well. They've been out on the field they've they've helped to they don't maintain the landscape or anything like that. It's a pretty specialized deal, as I'm sure you know, but they've certainly been been out there helping with events, pre and post event type deals. So a lot of it is facilities.   Michael Hingson  33:13 Yeah. And do you think that they require, once they're on the job and trained, do you think they require a lot more supervision and a lot more work to maintain than the average worker? No, no,   Keith Stump  33:27 not at all. Unless, unless somebody again, and we all have a bad day. But if somebody, there's additional challenges, right? I mean, it's no secret if somebody has autism or something like that. And we certainly serve a number of clients that do and they wouldn't mind me saying this. Sometimes you just, there's some additional soft skills there that you need some additional help. The employer needs to understand that, you know, it's okay, take a break, step back. And then and then get back to it. But no, they definitely don't need additional help, in my opinion. I mean, I will say, and again, I love Able, we have an amazing crew. But like any organization, there's there's drama, and there's things you have to deal with on a daily basis. And I very strongly believe that it is consistent whether someone has a disability or not.   Michael Hingson  34:13 And that's the reason I asked the question, because the reality is once training takes place, and training may be a little different for some people as opposed to others, whether it's disabilities, we've been trying to train politicians for years, and that doesn't seem to be working. So there's another branch that you should start to recover politicians but but the reality is that that training is different for different people. And the best training processes are the ones that can accommodate whatever anyone needs. But the fact is that once a skill is learned, once a job is learned, people can go do it. And so we need to get rid of this whole fear of what disabilities are viewed as being thing in the world by most people as opposed to what they really are. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's up. And it's so unfortunate that we have such a hard time making that happen. And I was gonna ask you, but I think I think you've kind of explained it. The the differences between here and in doing this in other countries. From an attitudinal standpoint, do you think that it's much different here overall? Or do we still really face the same fears? And are we making much more progress here than elsewhere?   Keith Stump  35:36 That is a really good question. I think, I think there is less stigma, but it is almost more subtle here. You've already kind of said that almost in a passive aggressive way. Where it's, oh, yeah, we love we love those people. But no, no, they can't do that, can they? Right. Whereas in the other places I've worked, it might be more direct, somebody might actually not be passive aggressive, they may not be so subtle, however. And that's that is worse. I mean, I'm just going to be transparent. I have found that those stigmas, people will outright come and say you, you can't work here, because you have this disability, you won't, you won't find anybody here in the US say that, mostly for legal reasons. Although they certainly will let you know. And I'm talking locally, I'm sure this doesn't happen. But I have never run into that here where someone will outright say you can't be here because of these reasons. But they will will very subtly let you know, this is the reason that we can't accept folks. And so there's pros and cons to that sometimes it's easier dealing with folks that are just they're not gonna be passive aggressive, they're not subtle, they'll just tell you what you think. And that means that you can have that open dialogue, you can have a conversation, you can educate them. And I do think that globally, what I have found is that folks are much more open to being educated, they're open to the conversations. Whereas here, you can have the conversation. And you know how this goes, everybody kind of nods their heads, and you didn't get through? Yeah, you didn't get through and the person acts nice, they act, you know, they're very, they're passive aggressive, and, Oh, we love those people. You're not We love those people. But those people, again, we can't help you right now. Whereas globally, I have found that again, this the stigma may be worse the things they say out of their mouth, eight, maybe even worse, but there's sometimes more openness to, to backup. And when you when you challenge those individuals, they say, oh, geez, you're right, I was wrong. Whereas sometimes it's harder here to get people to admit they're wrong. There's a little bit more pride around that. So you know, there's, there's some things are easier, for sure. And there are more resources here. But some things are more challenging, because I think there's more pride. I don't know how else to say that. I think people are a little bit more. They don't want to admit that they have they have they they hold the stereotype or that they have these ideas. Whereas sometimes it's it's easier to get folks to admit that they're wrong in other places,   Michael Hingson  38:04 and there's also the profit aspect of it where people say, well, it's just going to impact our profits. And we're so tied into that, that we miss so many things. So you said something earlier that I thought was absolutely irrelevant, which is that when a lot of persons with disabilities get hired in various places, the odds are we're going to be on we usually are a lot more loyal. And we're going to stay there. Because we even though it may not be articulated as such, we know how hard it was to get that job in the first place.   Keith Stump  38:41 Yeah, yeah, that's true. Absolutely. I think there's also I don't know if at least with our, the individuals we serve, the loyalty is not just about how hard it was to get the job. You're absolutely right about that. But there's also a real love for that place for their community. I think, from what I have seen, and again, I'm just speaking from personal experience. Now. There's, I think sometimes folks that have disabilities develop developmental disabilities, in my case, maybe they value community more, maybe they want to feel plugged in more than some of the other individuals we serve. I know it is very easy, especially in our culture to have a I'm a I'm a solo guy, right? It's you want to be independent, you want to do your own thing. And, and obviously, sometimes that can be to the detriment of folks of myself of us. And so I do find that the folks we serve, really they want to be plugged in more they want that community and that does play into how long they choose to stay at a space a place if if the job is going well. There's really no no reason for them to leave. They're not interested in that.   Michael Hingson  39:49 That all gets back to the proper training the proper fit and understanding and some potential employees may not be able to RTK like that or understand it. But you know whether you have a disability or not, that could still be the case. And so we all can use assistance and help from others. And there's a lot of value in community. And I think we miss it way too often, oh, I can do that. I don't need any help. And, and sometimes we don't need help. And the other side of that is that people need to recognize that they shouldn't just assume that we need help those people don't need help. It's always or should be okay to ask, but don't assume. Yes, yeah. Good point. And we we encounter that a lot. Well, what is the whole world of working in the nonprofit sector and so on, done for you personally, it's obviously had to have a lot of personal effect on you, and family, and so on.   Keith Stump  40:50 Yeah, it's taught me a lot. It's allowed me to learn so much about people that I, I love them, far more than I think, over the process of time. It really puts me in a space where I love people, I really care about people. And the more that I learn about people, whether it's the folks that I serve now or globally, whether it's, you know, internationally, local, doesn't matter, people are people. That's the number one thing that I've learned is, there's really not that much of a difference between somebody in Ethiopia versus here in California, there's not much of a difference between somebody that has a disability for somebody that apparently doesn't, although I will say I, you know, I'm actually I'm very transparent parent, to be honest with you about some of my own struggles, mental health, as I like many of us, you know, I feel that that is a certainly as a disability just as much as physical or developmental and so we all have something to struggle with, I certainly have my struggles. I know that our clients do our staff to the people I've worked with around the world doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, we're all human, we all have our struggles. And I love what you often say about folks that I'm going to butcher the language you use, but folks that can see in there, they're basically limited by sight, right? Correct me on how you you word that. But I've listened to quite a number of your podcast and presentations. And I love that because it is very true. We each we each have something to deal with. We each have pros and cons, and we're all human, there really is no difference on many levels. And so I guess what I've learned through the Global work and through all the nonprofit work is that I get to see that every single day, there really should not be any such thing as stigma, because or we should all just admit we all have our own stigmas. We all have our own taboos, right. And so yeah, it's given me a real love of people want to continue to serve, it can be exhausting. I mean, it can be, as you know, I mean, mentally, you really do have to create space so that when needed, you have your personal time, and then you're at work. And that can be tough. When you're dealing with people, it can be tough with any job, but it can be I do personally take all of this very seriously, I know that we're dealing with people's lives. And in many cases, with the global work, I actually have been in settings where it was life or death. If you don't mind, I'm gonna share a quick story of this and how, how it impacts my work today. So when I was in Ethiopia, I worked with a family preservation program. And there was a child there in America, who had pretty severe autism and his mother, he was with a single mother. And that was really, she was really the only real relationship in his life, we worked hard to try to create other relationships and other spaces for him. But his mother tragically passed away, we did not know she didn't let us know that she had HIV. And she passed away. And all of a sudden, we were left with a child who had pretty severe developmental disabilities and really did not have any other relationships. And although we were able to, in many cases, help families provide and support their children with disabilities, it was still a real challenge in Ethiopia to move a child with disabilities into a foster or adoptive home. That is that is a real challenge. And so we were tragically not able to find a home for Bereket. And he went into an orphanage it was it was we hope to temporary, but he refused to eat. He did not have any other relationships in his life besides us. Obviously, he lost his mother completely unexpectedly. And he passed away within 30 days. And that was still to this day. So you know, still one of the toughest situations I've ever had was to have somebody die essentially on my watch. We weren't able to provide him with with the needs that he he really had to have met. And so that continues to impact me when I think about the resources we have here when I think about how important it is to build awareness and move past stigma to move past these taboos, because in his case, it is very tragic. But he was not able to get the help because we weren't able to find somebody to care for him because those stigmas existed. And like I said, there's things that are better globally. And there's things that are more challenging globally. And that was something that I have to say, if it would have been here in the US, we would have had the resources, I think, to certainly keep him alive and find him a temporary solution. And so when I'm here locally, or I'm not working in those life and death situations anymore, I have to constantly remind my staff sometimes that when we have a really tough day, it's not life and death, we are dealing with people's life. That's true. But because we have resources, and because we have a community that really supports us, I know that we would not have a Berikut situation here in Visalia. Now, that may happen in other places in the US, but we do have a very supportive community. And so that is, again, obviously something that has had a huge impact. And that happened. Several times several cases, it's very difficult finding help for folks. And so   Keith Stump  46:18 that really gave me continues to give me a passion to advocate for folks. And also, I think it's so important that here locally here in the US, we don't take for granted the resources that we have, we don't take for granted the progress that we have made. Right. And although like I said, there's things that are sometimes easier in other countries, there's also there's also challenges. And here we have the ability, we have resources, and we can help. Fortunately, we live in a community, we live in a state at least that is supportive, and there's a long ways to go. But being reminded of that, you know, to me, I feel very lucky that I am in a place that I know that would not happen again. Other things may happen, people may fall through the cracks, or maybe, maybe we can't find somebody a job, but I am grateful that we can at least temporarily keep them safe and provide for their life needs. And, of course, COVID COVID made that scary, because as I'm sure you know, we did lose people. And, you know, it's kind of put back into that place. Again, I got out of the global work for about five years and went Oh, wow, you know, I'm here at Able, and we lost, we lost five people initially, that that did get COVID and passed away. And so it's always, you know, it's just there's a real sense of brevity, I guess. And life is so short. And it's a privilege to be able to help people in a little time that we have   Michael Hingson  47:40 to you sometimes have challenges dealing with the families of persons with disabilities in terms of getting them to let go and let people grow and expand a little bit.   Keith Stump  47:52 Yeah, and this is true. I mean, certainly here locally in Tulare, but it's true globally as well. Yeah, it's I want to be careful how much I say about that, because our families and caregivers are really phenomenal human beings. But yes, it is a probably one of our greatest challenges. And certainly I'm not going to talk specifics around that. But no, there are. There's there is an idea. And some of this is generational. Some of it is just maybe how an individual grew up in the community. But again, I often hear folks refer to our clients as kids. Let's see what we can do for those kids. You know, many of them are, are older than me or have retired, they're in their 60s 70s. And even if they're in their 20s, they're not kids, they're adults. And so that is an issue. And often the people that refer to them that way are their parents or caregivers. And there is, as you already know, and as you've alluded to there, there is a challenge sometimes to help those individuals understand that if we're truly going to be integrated. We need people to be out in the community and that actually the community is safe again, that's not something that people sometimes have the luxury of in other countries it can go either way and this story I just shared with bear cat it wasn't a safe community. And part that's why actually his mom felt she couldn't reveal that she had HIV and get help in the first place. But here in Tulare County, we do live in a safe community and helping folks understand that it is okay to be out there and actually it's it's it's better for everybody not just the person that has the disability but maybe even more so for our community as a whole. Well, there   Michael Hingson  49:29 there are a lot of challenges and unfortunately families oftentimes shelter their loved ones. We I've seen it a lot with blind with blind people or in people who are losing their eyesight and the rest of the family doesn't really want to deal with it. They they just don't recognize that it isn't the end of the world. As I like to say people talk about the road Less Traveled you know all having a any kind of a disability and you're right, I've referred to people with eyesight is light dependent, which is really the whole issue that you rely on light in order to function. But all of us traveled down different lanes in the same road or on the same road. And there's nothing wrong with that. And we, we really do need to recognize that it's not the end of the world, just because someone acquires a difference that they didn't have, we need to train them, we need to make sure they get the training, and that the people around them get the appropriate training, a lot of times attitudinally, but we need to get that training in order to be able to allow people to grow and continue to thrive and be in the world. Absolutely. And it makes sense to, you know, to do that. So it is a it is a challenge. And it's something that we all have to deal with. Yes. So I can't resist Of course, how did you come to discover accessibe   Keith Stump  50:59 I came to. So we were basically looking for we with the rebrand, we did redid our website, and I wanted to find something that would make it of course, accessible, but not just accessible, but the most accessible possible. And so when I just started doing some searching, and excessively popped up, and that's how I personally found it, and then obviously, through through connecting from there, and it's been I will tell you, it's been really awesome, because not only have our clients in our community benefited from just being able to go to our website, but also I've been able to share excessively with within our coalition's with with our other nonprofit and business partners, and they've started to plug into that as well. And so I have to be honest, every time I show off accessibe, people, they want to give APR credit. So I keep reminding them like oh, this is a free service we've received. But it's so cool that folks, you know, our community at least just feels like it's, you know, mind blowing, and it kind of is on one side, I feel like that's a little bit sad, because I think these resources should have been the norm much longer than that. But I'm happy at least locally to be able to kind of lead the charge on that. And, again, it's it's been very, very good for us and very fun to show off.   Michael Hingson  52:24 Well. The interesting thing about SSP and technologies in general, when when people talk about and I hear it, well you have to use this sensor to to tell light, I don't have to do that. Or you have to have these special tools to make websites accessible. And I don't. The problem is that the reality is, as we talked about a minute ago, yeah, you do have to use tools, and you have to have the light bulb in order to get light at night or we all have different tools that we use, we just don't think about it. And the biggest problem I think, for us, from a technological standpoint, us who happened to have so called disabilities, let's say blind people. But others as well, is that although the technology got developed a lot quicker for people with eyesight, or for people who walk or for people who don't have Dilip Velop, mental disabilities, the reality is we're evolving the technology that allows us to have a lot of the same access that everyone else has. And if attitudes had been different, perhaps that technology would have been developed right alongside of, of the technologies that were developed for so called persons without disabilities. But that's not the way it worked out. It doesn't make us less, it does, in part, create an indictment on the people who weren't inclusive right from the outset. Absolutely. And so that's something that we of course, have to deal with.   Keith Stump  54:00 Yeah, very, but I agree. But so far, it's been very exciting for us. And it was, it was perfect timing because of the new website and the rebrand. So it's been good. I'm very grateful. Thank you.   Michael Hingson  54:14 Well, and, you know, it's an exciting time from a standpoint of technology and everything else, because inroads are being made. I think the biggest challenges that anyone with a disability faces are still attitudes, the technologies are becoming more and more available, and other things are becoming more available, but it still boils down to ultimately attitude that has to be addressed in order to make sure that we all truly get the same opportunities. Yeah, yeah, very much agree. And you're making a big difference in that just by virtue of what you're doing, which is really pretty cool. And it's exciting to see the various things that You know that ABL is doing and that you're doing personally? What what kinds of things are coming up for you and Able, what, what's the future gonna hold?   Keith Stump  55:09 Well, we are near end of year. So of course, for any nonprofit, we are really pushing for our typical, you know, our giving campaigns or donations with the move, we're doing a VIP sort of invite only open house December 2, and then once we finally finish everything, then we'll do a big open house in the spring so that the move really is a really big deal. So trying to get past that. It's both exciting and certainly daunting. But that's what's coming up in the next six months in terms of our programs, we've actually worked with our local regional center to really four reformat almost all of our programs at this point so that they are more person centered so that we can spend more time with our clients one on one, getting the funding for around that has been a challenge. I mean, that's probably been the better part of eight months trying to finalize what our new programs are going to look like. And we are we're very excited, I think with the passing of SB 639, which is the minimum wage law, we very much embrace that. And as you've already asked folks that are placed in employment, of course, get that we're looking to move all of our training we do. So our training programs, which are temporarily temporary, temporary, sorry, our are still almost like an internship. So we're looking to offer minimum wage and those programs as well. So there's a lot of changes that are coming for, certainly for any nonprofit, I mean, it's always a balancing act, my desire and our desire is to provide the best service possible. And then also looking at how you do that when you don't have a lot of money. And thankfully, the state recently passed some bills that have helped with that. But it's a challenge. I mean, I'm not it never really ends, because there's so many people that need to be served. And there's only amount of limited resources again, we're lucky, we're lucky that we live in a state that has resources, I've certainly worked without them. But it's challenging. So but it's exciting. It's there's so much change right now that I personally love change. And I sort of I accept chaos, I like it. And part of that is maybe I'll to global travel and all that. And that can be very challenging, obviously for some staff, some enjoy it. But being able to lean into that and say changes exciting. Let's let's go there, I'm also kind of unlucky and lucky. And I gave Able credit. Because when I was hired, you know, my background is in nonprofit work in the nonprofit world as a whole. So I have a lot of experience in development and leadership. But working here domestically, on behalf of individuals that have developmental disabilities, there's a new for me. So there's advantages to that, because I get to go into these places. I have a lot of coalition meetings and such where it's like, well, we can't do that. That's the way it's, you know, it's always been done this way. And I'm like, why? I don't know the difference. This seems much better to me, let's do that. So I have that advantage where I've not really stuck on a certain way of doing things, which, in the midst of a time that has really been full of change. That's obviously a positive on the flip side. You know, I certainly have a lot to learn about program and policy because even though I'm good at dealing with people, those the red tape side of things did not exist, to the extent that it does here when I was working globally. So it's an exciting time. For me, for me personally, it's very exciting. I hope my staff can say the same, because so much has changed. But most of them have been very good about embracing it. And and I think we all recognize that good things are to come. But there's certainly some challenges ahead as well.   Michael Hingson  58:46 Yeah, but we can cope. And we can help. We all have broad shoulders. You mentioned the regional centers, my wife was the chair of the board of the Orange County Regional Center for a while. So we're very familiar with, with that program and the whole case management process that they bring in the fact that through them, a lot of funding is available. And you're right, California is a state that has so many resources and is willing to, for the most part share them which is really pretty cool. Absolutely. Well, I want to thank you for being here. You've been here for a whole hour and it's been a lot of fun. And I I've learned a lot and always get inspired when I get to hear stories sometimes even when the sad ones are, are told they're still stories that help teach us and so I hope that that everyone listening is has enjoyed it and we certainly appreciate you taking the time to be here because you've obviously got lots to do but we really appreciate you coming and being a part of this today.   Keith Stump  59:46 Yeah, no, thank you so much. I love it. I'm always glad to do these sorts of things. And I if you don't mind, I'm gonna tell you one more story I love Sure. And this is this is a this is a light one. So we love stories. So one of the reasons I love work In here at Able, and I will say with the folks that we work with is that when I literally the first week that I started, obviously, folks were a little bit shy, right? I'm a new executive director, and I very much have an open door policy. And I kept trying to remind folks of that, but it took, you know, a good six months for them to take me seriously. But the very first week, a gentleman that works for us by the name of David, who had gone through our programs, and he's been here for a long time, he literally walks into my office when everybody else has been shy. And again, this is somebody that has been through our program. And you know, certainly we've, we've served and we've now hired, he walks in, he doesn't he doesn't tell me his name. He doesn't ask me what my name is. I'm not even sure he knows who I am. And he just walks in, he says, Hey, hav

Welcome to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Podcasts, Today we are joined by Adam Benton.  Adam founded Stellar Senior Living in 2012 with 4,000 units and 2,300 employees. The company now has 9 states with plans to grow to 30 locations by 2021.    [00:00 - 05:36] Stellar Senior Living Reports Steady Growth in Senior Housing Market Adam talks about how the company grows and manages its operations The senior living market is in a good position with high demand and few competitors   [05:36 - 11:17] Senior Housing Industry rebounds after Covid Covid did not do as well as other businesses, such as restaurants or office space, during the downturn. However, Covid has seen growth in its business since then and now offers a need-driven product that is in high demand. Senior housing is currently cheap because of the depressed occupancy levels and demographic trends of people living longer. The cost of construction and interest rates are also contributing to the current depressed market for senior housing.   [11:17 - 16:47] How to Keep a Building Occupied: Tips for Attracting and Retaining Talent People do want buildings that look nice and smell good, but they also want someone to care for their loved ones properly. People are more likely to be distressed with a property if it has deferred maintenance or is older. There is no one silver bullet for retaining or attracting employees, but the same things that make employees happy at work - like contributing and feeling like they're making a difference - will make them stay. Senior housing businesses look for market conditions that will allow them to keep residents and attract new ones." [16:48 - 20:58] Closing Segment Reach out to Adam!  Links Below   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Tweetable Quotes: “We learned during Covid that it truly is a need-driven business. So people move in for a number of reasons, maybe a lifestyle change or they just want to make that next step. But often it's also driven by maybe you had broken your hip and you're getting surgery and then you realize that probably home isn't the best environment for you going forward, or that your kids are worried about you living by yourself and you wanna be in more of a social structure”- Adam Benton   “When we look at a property that's maybe distressed, you'd be surprised that sometimes they're distressed because they've had deferred maintenance and they're older and there's an opportunity just to do like a CapEx improvement plan.” - Adam Benton Connect with Adam Benton by following him on Linkedin or visit their website at (www.stellarliving.com Connect with me:   I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook   LinkedIn   Like, subscribe, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or whatever platform you listen on.  Thank you for tuning in!   Email me → sam@brickeninvestmentgroup.com Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below: [00:00:30] Sam Wilson: Adam Benton started Stellar Senior living in 2012. The company now has 4,000 units in nine states with 2,300 employees. Adam, welcome to the [00:00:41] Adam Benton: show. Hey, thanks for [00:00:43] Sam Wilson: having me, Sam. My goodness. 2300 employees. That's a lot of people to keep track of. [00:00:48] Adam Benton: How do you do it ? well, it's our most impressive metric. It just happens to be a people business. Obviously, you have your real estate component. You got this operational piece and the operations, it's a people business, so there's residents, there's employees, and probably the most difficult as the resident family members. So all in lots of people that we're trying to make happy and but it, it makes for a great [00:01:07] Sam Wilson: business. Absolutely. Adam, there are three questions I ask every guest who comes from the show in 90 seconds or less. You tell me where did you start? Where are you now and how did you get there? [00:01:15] Adam Benton: Yeah, so this business I started, it was, I started with my With my dad and my brother. And we did it about 10 years ago. I see 11 years ago. We just had this idea, didn't, didn't grow up. Think I'd be in a family business. And so we we started looking for properties to buy. I was working on Wall Street. So had a lot of experience on the sales side of things and and we ended up finding four assets. My dad had a fair amount of experience in the space, but had never started a business on his own doing this. So we We basically found these four assets. We ended up partnering with a public real estate investment trust who actually bought them and then we leased it back from them. And then at that point, the whole goal is just that you gotta make more money than your lease payment. And at the time we were making a little less, and so we just had to kind of grind and, and keep going. So that's how we started. And then the second question is where are we at today? And then how did we get there? Is that right? [00:02:06] Sam Wilson: Yeah, we're just gosh, you gotta be confusing. My own question. Where'd you start? Or Callie, 90 seconds or less? Where'd you start? Where are you now? And how'd you get there? Yeah, I think that's gist, but feel, like I said, I asked that question. Seven times a week, and I can't even remember the exact level, [00:02:19] Adam Benton: but there you go. So, so today we're at, like, like you said, we're at nine states. We've got a few thousand employees, we've got 30 locations. And and, and how we get there is it, it seems amazing, but it's basically three properties a year. So that's it over 10 years and all of a sudden you're at 30. So that's, Out there. I just adding on three. [00:02:39] Sam Wilson: Yeah, adding, So it's one, one every four months you're bringing, bringing online, and I guess you're right, it's the it's the toes and hair idea in that is that you just, Yeah. Keep plugging away at it. Tell me about the senior living opportunity. Where, where is the market now in, in, in this opportunity? I guess just, just gimme a, I guess if you don't mind, just a, a, your, your overall perspective on Yeah. The asset [00:03:04] Adam Benton: class and where you see it going. So I, I love this asset class for a number of reasons. One is it's it's the very people focused, very service oriented. So that component of the business is just incredible there. There's so many stories every day of people caring for other people and and really showing love one to another. So, and it's hard to avoid. There's a lot of businesses where it's you're struggling to find a purpose as to why you're doing it that's easy in this business. Right. It's also a nice nexus between real estate and operations. So senior housing is still considered. Or senior living is still considered a real estate asset class. It's an alternative asset class. It's the largest piece. It's about 35% of alternatives. So you've got your sort of five major food groups, right? It's like multi-family and office space and retail. And let's see, what would be another one? Industrial. Storage industry. Yeah, I guess, storage. Yeah. So then on the, Yeah, exactly. So on the alternative side storage is considered alternative student housing, alternative senior housing, alternative databases, database centers is alternative. So, we're the largest portion of that. Cause it takes a level of operations to do it. But it's a nice mix, so you still need to know the basics. Blocking and tackling related to mainly like an apartment complex. Oh, I remember the fifth one. It's hotels, it's hospitality. That's on the core asset class stuff, so, Right. But but then there's another piece which is just, there's an operating component to it. So if you look at our income statement on one end, it looks a lot like an apartment complex, and on the other end it looks a lot like. More of like a home health and hospice or a Chili's restaurant, and you just combine those three together and you've got our business, which is senior housing. . [00:04:48] Sam Wilson: What is the health of the market today? I mean, there's all sorts of, you know, theories going on. Okay, where's multifamily now? Where's self storage? You know what's over bought, What's under bought? But tell me about the senior living space. What's that market snapshot look [00:05:01] Adam Benton: like? So, the senior living space, I, I think it's in a phenomenal position to invest in today, and there's a few reasons for it. So, just to make a comparison, if you look at multifamily today, there's some difficulties. There's people are looking for high prices. There's a ton of demand. It's very obvious and a lot of properties are, are totally full. Well in our space. We're still, we got knocked on our heels a little bit during Covid and and the, the whole industry dropped from kind of the 90 ish percent occupancy down to. Mid to low seventies, and it's been climbing back every month. Right. So we didn't get nearly as as hit as restaurants or office space for example, or hotels. But it did hurt us. But we've seen it growing back now. What we learned during Covid is that it truly is a need driven business. So people move in for a number of reasons, maybe a lifestyle change or they just want to make that next step. But oftentimes it's also driven by maybe you had a. You broke your hip and you're getting it you had surgery on it, and then you realize that probably home isn't the best environment for you going forward, or that that your kids are worried about you living by yourself and you wanna be in more of a social structure. So those are kind of the need driven reasons why people would move in. We thought that during covid, you know, March of 2020 and April of 2020, that you would just see it go to zero. And it didn't, It was incredible. Our, our offering, because of the restrictions put on our business, or, Hey, you can move your loved one in. They'll move in. They're never allowed to leave and you're never allowed to come in and visit. And it is like, And you could talk through a window. We had to do that for almost a year, and people were still moving in. So it just really highlights the fact that there's a need even with that kind of poor value proposition during the time. But and that it's climbing back now, you, you combine the fact that. I think senior housing right now is actually still cheap because of of the, of the depressed occupancy levels. And then you you look at demographic trends of where it's going and the demand is just, the math is just easy to do where you're just seeing baby boomers aging. People living longer. And then a higher utilization percentage of people above 75 that use assisted living that are really driving it. And then you layer on the fact that right now it's actually a little difficult to build existing buildings with cost of construction and cost of interest of, of debt. And you end up in an interesting scenario where you've got. What I consider something that's probably on the more value in terms of what it's worth today because of the lower occupancy, but then with really good demographics going forward. And then not a lot of new supply coming on for a while because of people looking at the cost of construction and the fact that it's still depressed with occupancy. [00:07:49] Sam Wilson: So how, how does that play in with, say, a recession? So you have, I get the need side of things. I get the fact that, okay, maybe if occupancies are low, the prices overall are like, in, in your words, you know, things are still cheap, but let's let, let's, let's forecast a recession and say, Okay, you know what, maybe, maybe that boomer, maybe that retiree, maybe their portfolio went to pot, right? It's worth half its value. How does that play into your guys' business, and does it affect it, [00:08:20] Adam Benton: if at all? Yeah. So, it will affect it. But for example, in the 2008, 2009 financial crisis it was the best performing real estate asset class coming out of it right in the middle of it as well. And then to highlight back to what we saw during Covid, which is just that. the reasons why people are using senior housing don't necessarily correlate with the market as a whole. It's more need driven related to your health. And then the main ways in which our residents pay for moving into senior housing they have three. Sort of buckets that they pull from. So one is obviously just your general social security, so you're getting a thousand or 2000 a month from that. The second is maybe savings, your pensions, and then the last one is equity from your home. And so those, well, those will come down a little bit, but if you. Look at what's happened even over the last run of 10 or 15 years. Those second buckets your pension savings, those amounts and then the value of your home have gone up tremendously. So we're not seeing a huge slowdown from people's ability to pay for senior housing when they need it. And I don't think that'll slow very much during per session. [00:09:31] Sam Wilson: Right. What are you guys, are you guys building ground up? Are you buying existing facilities? What's your [00:09:36] Adam Benton: strategy? We do both. Yeah. So we do, we have three ground up constructions that we're doing today. A typical ground up will be 150 units. And they generally range at that size of about 40 to 50 million to build something like that. And then in terms of existing oftentimes these properties need to compete. And so to do that, you need to have really good set of amenities and common space and we'll take existing properties, renovate them, make 'em look nicer, and then put in the correct operations and get it going. So we do both options by existing and build. What, [00:10:14] Sam Wilson: what, When you look at a, an asset, and I'm gonna call it distressed, right? I'm gonna take this all the way back to maybe my single family days of, of flipping houses. Yeah. You could spot one a mile away. You're like, Oh, hey, there's a house we can make a pile of money on. Cuz you see the common signs, like what are the common signs you're finding in assets that you're acquiring and then renovating. You're like, Oh, hey, there's something that we can turn around. [00:10:35] Adam Benton: Yeah, it's a little different than what you might find in a home or multifamily. And the fact that you might find a multifamily that, hey, it's just a little tired. There's deferred maintenance, and the prices are a little bit too high if we just go through and carpet, paint and lighting and maybe some changes that we can then compete and have it fill back up and charge higher rate. Within the senior housing space, if you think about how you choose hospital, for example it's less about what the building looks like and more about the reputation and their operational ability to care for you, right? So when you take those two concepts, senior housing sort of sits in the middle where there's a component where you want it to look good and nice, but at the same time you have to have a solid reputation and There's a saying in our industry, which is that chandeliers don't give care. People do. Hmm. And so you see that now when people first look to move in they they wanna make sure the building looks nice and you just kind of hit those table stake options, that it smells good. You got somebody that's greeting at the front desk, things like that. But then ongoing, what they really want is that someone's gonna do two. They're going to they're gonna properly care for your loved one and they're gonna love them. Right? So those are those two sort of aspects that. That that you need. So when we look at a property that's maybe distressed, you'd be surprised that sometimes they're distressed because they've had deferred maintenance and they're older and there's an opportunity just to do like a CapEx improvement plan, right? But we see a lot of new buildings that are also distressed and it's because they missed on the, on that reputational or operational component to it. And those are Ones that we love because it just is a matter of just finding the right team, training 'em properly, incentivizing 'em, and just having everybody pull in the same direction. And that doesn't actually take a lot of CapEx, but you can't go buy it at Home Depot either. So you gotta, you gotta build it. [00:12:20] Sam Wilson: Yeah. I mean, that, that sounds more like a company culture issue than it does a, like you're saying, a, a CapEx. [00:12:28] Adam Benton: Right, right. Yeah. You, you can't go to, you know, Aisle 13 and Walmart and buy company culture. You, you get, it's one of those secret sauce items that you have to just constantly work on. And and especially when you have a couple thousand employees, that is, that is truly something that we focus a lot on. In fact, we have, this is something we pulled from Netflix. We have what's called the culture deck, which is about a 70 page PowerPoint slide that goes through all of our culture items. That we [00:12:53] Sam Wilson: talk about how, how, I mean from a couple, you know, from two sons and dad saying, All right, hey, let's go buy some senior living facilities. That's cool. To now having a 70 page culture deck like that's a lot of progress, first of all. But how did you decide, and how did you finally figure out, especially from the early days, what that culture was gonna look like, what you wanted, how you wanted that to actually play out? I mean, that, that to me sounds a lot like work going, Yeah, [00:13:22] Adam Benton: this is gonna be, sounds pretty daunting, right? That's exactly, that's a great word [00:13:25] Sam Wilson: for it. [00:13:26] Adam Benton: So if you were. So for your listeners on the podcast, what I'd recommend, if you wanna get some exposure to senior housing, what you want to do is partner with a management company like an operator that will, that will be able to do it for you. I wouldn't just jump in and start saying, Great, I'm gonna just. This is easy. I'm just gonna start operating, buying and operating senior housing unless you got a lot of time. So the, the first thing you can do is you can find a property and then you basically just couple it with a very good operator. And there's usually a handful of operators in every state that are well known that will partner with you. And they and some of them do third party management where they'll come in and just manage for a fee. And then the other option is you could joint venture with them where it's. Manage for a fee, plus they'll probably throw in some capital and, and invest alongside you. So that's probably step one. If you don't want to go build like a 60 page culture deck and manage a whole set of employees and payroll and everything goes with it. And then you can learn a lot by doing that. And if you feel like it's worth it, then you could over time just like morph into your launching your own management company. [00:14:29] Sam Wilson: What, who is, who is the hardest. Employee for you guys to bring on and, and kind of fit into your system. Like what's the greatest need that you say inside of your business? Like, man, this is somebody that makes or breaks this, and it's probably the hardest seat to fill. [00:14:45] Adam Benton: Yeah, we're a 24-hour business, so the hardest seat to fill would probably be a weekend night shift, med tech or caregiver, right? So imagine it, right? Your 2:00 AM Sunday morning caregiver, that that's probably your hardest position to fill. And they're the most important because they're right front lines on, on what's happening. If you think about a standard building of ours, we've got an executive director, you have a chef and their whole team, so. So chef servers, cooks, dishwasher. You have like a nurse with their whole team. So that's rn, LPNs, med techs, CNAs, right? So, and then you have activities, right, which is activities transportation. And then you might have a front desk, and then you have a sales team maintenance. And and then you have basically an executive director that runs that whole thing. And I'm sure I'm missing a section, but that's the basic structure of a senior housing team. [00:15:38] Sam Wilson: Wow. Yeah. That And, and how do you guys solve that? Like what, what do you do to attract that 2:00 AM. You call med tech, Was that the right [00:15:45] Adam Benton: word? Yeah. Like a med tech, somebody who's managing medications or, or a, a certified nursing assistant. That is a real trick, especially today where, where we're having a lot of payroll issues related to attracting, retaining, maintaining talented employees. And there's, there's not a silver bullet but it's the same thing people wanna. In a place where where they have a friend, where they feel like they're making a contribution or making a difference every day, and where they have opportunity to grow and hit their own goals. And and so you have to be just like, we're, you're, you're trying to keep a building occupied by attracting residents on the same side. We have a similar process for attracting and retaining talented employees. [00:16:31] Sam Wilson: Is there a location or, or I guess like where does this business work? Is it anywhere? What, like what do you guys look for in expansion? You say, Okay, here's, here's kind of the right market conditions for us. To move into that area? What's that look like for [00:16:46] Adam Benton: you? That's a great question. They, the, the knee jerk reaction is to say, I know it's Arizona and Florida, right? That's where we're at. But this is actually, it's just draw five mile radiuss around the entire country with population. So your top 100 MSAs. And then you just this, this is more of like a a product where you offer to a neighborhood. For example, our average age resident is 86 years old. Wow. And at that point there when we look at the demographics of where to build a property, Sometimes we look at what the population is of where their kids are because at that age, let's say mom lives in Texas and she has a fall and her kids all live outta state, right? They're probably not gonna actually find a place in Texas to. To have their mom live. They'll have mom live near one of the kids. Right. And and so they tend to move to places like Columbus, Ohio or Salt Lake City. They're not, it doesn't actually match up with what, what you're thought of is where elderly live. They might live there before, but then when they have more needs, they'll move in close to their kids. And we're talking a five to six mile radius, 12 minute drive time. That's what we're [00:17:57] Sam Wilson: talking that, That's interesting. I'm thinking about a small town here in Tennessee that I know pretty well. And they put in, I don't know how big the facility was, but it, for that small town, it was a pretty astounding facility. I'm like, really? Here? And the place is, It's jam packed. Yeah, jam packed. And I mean, this town doesn't have more than 15, maybe 20,000 tops. People in it. And I just kind of looked at that. I was, you know, it's a head scratcher for me going, I would not have put a assisted living facility or a senior living facility in this town. And yet, here I am wrong again, which is not uncommon, but here I am wrong again. So I was really curious what, what you guys see you know, where, where you guys find opportunities. So that's really cool that, you know, think through like where are the kids, wherever the kids are gonna be in a five mile radius, you know, with any, any any, you know, large msa. There you go. That's that, that's a pretty easy easy, easy dart to board. So [00:18:52] Adam Benton: that's not do. It is, and we, we find that know we've seen that strategy as well. Obviously it, it makes sense if you're in the middle of Salt Lake City and you've got a million people to draw from. But we've seen it in places. We have a property in Colene, Idaho. Colene is not very big. Mm-hmm. . But we find that the draw actually comes not just from Colene, but there's a massive sort of 50 mile radius of rural population where people are coming in from and and that at some point, the similar. Track that you would do to come to a hospital or to something where you need additional care, You'll do the same thing to come into the, the closest city for senior housing needs. Right, [00:19:27] Sam Wilson: right. I guess that that would make sense for the town. I'm thinking of too, cuz there's nothing within an hour and a half of there that would be any, any substantial size. But there's dozens of towns that are, you know, anywhere from five to 15,000 people. That surround it within 30 to 45 minutes. So [00:19:43] Adam Benton: that makes sense. That's the big town. Yeah. Right, [00:19:45] Sam Wilson: right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's very, very fascinating. Adam. I've loved this. Thanks for taking the time to come on this show today and break down the senior living space for us. How you guys got involved in it, the ways that you guys have grown and built your company, things to look out for and, and, and then, Yeah. I mean, this is, this has been absolutely awesome just learning about your business, the people business. I can't believe that 2300 employees. Right. That's a lot of, a lot of balls to keep in the air and things to keep moving. If our listeners wanna get in touch with you and learn more about you, what is the best way to do that? [00:20:16] Adam Benton: Yeah, you can look me on at LinkedIn. So our business is Stellar senior living and Adam Benton at Stellar Senior Living. And just message me. I'm happy to reach out talk with you directly if you have any questions about the business and and I always loved taking time to explain our industry a little better. Awesome. Thanks [00:20:31] Sam Wilson: again, Adam. Have a great rest of your day. [00:20:32] Adam Benton: Yeah, you bet. Thanks Sam.  

Bill Fairman 00:00:01 Hi folks greetings today. We're gonna talk about your burn rate. What's important about it. Does it change over time? We will get that and more with our special guest, Dr. David Phelps, right after this Wendy's Hasling me because I wasn't smiling enough. So I'm just gonna talk like this, the rest of the way. Greetings. I am bill Fairman Wendy sweet in the middle and Jonathan Davis, over there to the left. We are Carolina capital management. And thank you so much for joining us on the real estate investor show hard money for real estate investors. Like I said, we are Carolina capital management. We are a private lender in the Southeast for real estate professionals.   Wendy Sweet 00:01:04 If you're unprofessional, won't, don't call us.   Bill Fairman 00:01:07 If, if you'd like us to take a look at one of your projects, go to Carolina, hard money.com and click on the apply. Now tab, if you're a passive investor, looking for passive returns, click on the accredited investor tab, don't forget to like share, subscribe and hit the bell. And don't forget about Wednesdays with Wendy, Wendy donates 30 minutes per person on Wednesdays to talk about anything real estate related or faith. If you'd like to discuss faith, she's really good about that. She only makes fun of you sometimes. Just kidding. She's always booked up though. So here's the link to get on her calendar.   Wendy Sweet 00:01:58 Awesome. And what was really cool? The last Wednesday happened to fall on a couple months previous, I had done a special talking event with some of the kids from freedom founders. Oh cool. And I'm saying this cuz of course David is with us today and my calls all last Wednesday was all freedom. Founder, children of freedom, founder people. It was really cool.   Bill Fairman 00:02:24 Nice. Yeah. Well we do have a question and comment section on the right hand side of your screen or the bottom, depending on the platform you're viewing us from, you can also get all the links that we're sharing over there as well. So we have, we don't have any, there's nothing breaking this week, right?   Wendy Sweet 00:02:43 Broken. We had a little   Jonathan Davis 00:02:44 Bit of commentary in before we go into the burner. Yeah.   Bill Fairman 00:02:48 Okay. Well, in that case, I'm gonna surprise SHA cuz I said we had, no,   Wendy Sweet 00:02:53 You should ask your cohos breaking   Bill Fairman 00:02:55 News. So I'm gonna say I'm giving I'm talking over longer so she can have plenty of time to queue up the breaking news. When will it end? I feel like I'm on a mission and possible said anyway that awesome. Thank you SHA for jumping right in there and taking over. So yeah,   Jonathan Davis 00:03:35 Well we're, we're gonna talk about burn Ray, which we're gonna let Dr. David Phillips explain exactly what that is, but kind of to build into that, you know, just last month we received reports that consumer spending and consumer debt rather is a lot higher than it has been in fact way higher in, in 20 years. Yeah. People   Bill Fairman 00:03:56 Living off their credit card.   Jonathan Davis 00:03:57 Yeah. Well that's, that's the thing. It, I think year over year rose a hundred billion dollars in credit card usage. Wow. A hundred billion dollars. So that is more people stacking up consumer debt and we can let Dr. David Phelps tell you how that'll affect your burn rate. Also we're seeing, you know, slowing down in the appreciation of homes, we're continu, I think we're four or six, four to six months of continual slow slowing down in that, which is good. We needed it. It's getting to normal. It's down to 18 now. Yeah. Woo. That's great. Down to 18, you're seeing more, you know, more inventory lingering on the market. Hopefully, you know, people will lower prices and we can start moving things and get a little bit back to normal, whatever that means for the time period that we're in. The only thing that is still rising are rents. Right? They are. Thank you Lord. Going up. Yes. That's great. Which it, it was, the report came out for the highest rent appreciation, I suppose, in the nation and by percentage. Right. Do you know what city that was? Hopefully Charlotte, no, no Lexington, Kentucky where I'm from really. Wow. Interesting is the highest I got, you know,   Bill Fairman 00:05:21 Because it started off so low   Jonathan Davis 00:05:22 It's exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Lexington, Kentucky is number one, followed up by Corpus Christi in Texas. Now on the list on the top declining markets in rents are Irving, Texas and Plano, Texas, really? And number four and five. Huh? Chicago's number three. Huh? Yeah. But interesting. So, you know, Corpus Christi, Cincinnati and Columbus, Ohio. So basically what you're seeing is affordable places that have been historically affordable yeah. Are rising again because people are seeking out that affordability. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. That makes sense. You know what I   Wendy Sweet 00:05:57 Thought thought was really interesting too. You were talking about how, how sharply consumer debt has increased when, you know, two years ago, you know, COVID COVID time, you know, and, and as a, a, a friend of mine, who's speaking on sunrises tomorrow, Jordan Nabb, he's an attorney. He said when the helicopter was flying around dropping money on everybody, the not only was consumer debt really low, but savings was really, really high.   Jonathan Davis 00:06:28 I, I didn't put the chart up and I'll, I'll make it available to everyone. But yeah, you can see in 2020, when you know, extra surplus money was made available to everyone, it was a negative 17% year over year. Wow. Wow. Which means people just crush their debt down just, and then now since then we're up at, oh gosh, where we're at. Nope. 12.6%.   Wendy Sweet 00:06:53 Wow. Year over   Bill Fairman 00:06:54 Years. And it's the fed continues to raise rates. Then those cards are costing you even   Wendy Sweet 00:06:59 More that's right. That that's right. That's right. Exciting news.   Bill Fairman 00:07:03 O okay. So that was some great breaking news.   Jonathan Davis 00:07:05 Hey, you know, builds for Mr. David fell. Our Dr. David helps Rather's   Bill Fairman 00:07:10 For sure. David's gonna get bored sitting over here in the green room. So I'm gonna bring him on in just a second, but we have a special visual treat for him first that that's where we all wanna be right now, David,   Wendy Sweet 00:07:30 That you   Bill Fairman 00:07:32 And   David Phelps 00:07:37 The room looked like God, it was close. It was close. So thank you for that. Thank you for having a nice place for me to rest and relax before I on your,   Bill Fairman 00:07:49 You left some snacks for others later   David Phelps 00:07:52 With a little umbrella. Yeah. It's all there.   Bill Fairman 00:07:56 So, so our, our first burning question for you is what is a burn rate,   David Phelps 00:08:04 Burn rate? Yeah. That's, that's overhead, that's a cost of operations. And that can go for one's personal life, personal overhead, personal burn rate. Certainly if you have a business that you run, you've got an overhead or a burn rate in your business. And you know, within that, there's fixed in variable costs, but we all need to know what our burn rates are, you know, personal line business, because, well, I'm probably leading the witness here, but burn rate burn. Rate's very important. I'll let you get, let you take 'em there. I'm not interviewing you. You're interviewing me. So I'll give it back to   Bill Fairman 00:08:33 You. No, listen, we love that. You can take a question and just go with it. We always love the interviews that we have with folks that will go yes.   Wendy Sweet 00:08:42 That's it.   Bill Fairman 00:08:45 Or no.   Jonathan Davis 00:08:48 So   David Phelps 00:08:49 You're gonna give like essay questions. Is that what you're saying?   Wendy Sweet 00:08:53 Your own words? My   Jonathan Davis 00:08:54 Own words.   Bill Fairman 00:08:56 So what's, what's the importance of getting your burn rate and we'll say under control or at least knowing what it is.   Jonathan Davis 00:09:03 Yeah. What does it even mean? It's just, what does it mean, basil?   David Phelps 00:09:07 So, so, so I'm, I'm gonna focus on the personal side. Remember there's burn rate for personal and business. Both are important. I'm gonna focus on the personal side burn. Rate's important because I talk a lot as we all do, because we love real estate. As a vehicle, as an investment real estate provides, you know, cash flow. So if I want to gain freedom in my life, then I need to somewhere start replacing my burn, my personal burn rate with something else that doesn't require me to go to work now, nothing wrong with going to work. We all start there. We need to work. We get an education. We get training in something, get a career, or be an employee somewhere. We, we earn money to pay for our burn rate. But if our burn rate starts to escalate over time, which often it does, because the idea is is you travel through life, your education you're experience, your skillsets, allow you to earn more money.   David Phelps 00:09:56 That's a good thing. But what happens to too many people is they let the lifestyle burn rate also escalate. Now I'm not saying it's bad to aspire to have a, a nicer home, bigger home, maybe a better car than which you started with when you were just getting outta school, which that's nothing wrong with that. But if we focus on what's my real burn rate and how quickly here's the question, how quickly with a plan in place, could I start to replace the cash flow? The income required to fund my burn rate with asset based income? How quickly could I do that? That's what I call a freedom number. And that's why it's important to understand what's my burn rate. Cause we don't have any goals set on that. It can continue to escalate forever. And that's where people get on that treadmill. The treadmill of I earn more, earn more.   David Phelps 01:10:44 It's all good. It's all good. I'm living out a bigger life, a nice life, great life provide for my family, but I'm on this treadmill and where do I ever get up? Get the treadmill even a little bit, even drop the incline a little bit. Right? I mean, you guys go to the gym, you know what I'm talking about? You know, at some point you just can't keep that incline up here, running it in higher RPMs. You've gotta drop it down. Well, in real life, once you're on that trim, it's, it's hard to turn it back down again.   Jonathan Davis 01:11:09 Yeah, yeah. You know, it's makes me think of hamster on the wheel. I mean, yeah. That will, can only go as long as that hamster's running and once you step off, it's done. So, you know, to kind of illustrate the point, you know, we need something that's moving that wheel even when we're not on it.   Bill Fairman 01:11:27 And I don't wanna lead the question, but I'm going to already know the answer, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask it anyway.   Jonathan Davis 01:11:39 You know, I've found that when people say that most often they don't know the answer.   Bill Fairman 01:11:48 Is it easier to lower the burn rate than it is to increase the income?   David Phelps 01:11:54 I think it's easier to increase the income personally. I, now you can do both. You can do both. And I think people should do some of both to look hard at the burn rate and say, where could I potentially cut back? But I would say it's easier or probably most focused should go on increasing the income, the cash flow.   Bill Fairman 01:12:15 And, and, and that's something that, you know, we all want to do is take that active income and turn it into passive income. And we're gonna talk about that on our next week's show is about our freedom number and how to get there and the best way to get there. And the, in my opinion, the, the, the best class of assets to get there with.   Jonathan Davis 01:12:37 Can I jump in real quick? Absolutely. So, you know, when you said increasing the income is the easier path, I would, I would probably assume that most people watching this would've thought decreasing your expenses, cuz it kind of like fits into that. Like, you know, Dave Ramsey mindset, like, like to be wealthier, to be successful, to be free, there has to be suffering involved. Like you have to, you have to take away. And I love that you came in and said, no, like it's easier to add income, right? I mean, when you, well,   David Phelps 01:13:12 We're, we're all about suffering here. Are we not? We're we're suffering each other right now. No, we're not. We're enjoying this, but, but yes, Jonathan look, there's, there's a sacrifice period. Unless you were born with a silver spin in your mouth or a trust fund baby, there is a sacrifice period. We have to go through it. Working hard, being dedicated, persevering at whatever is in front of us, whatever our goals are, task career path business. Yes. We have to sacrifice to an extent. So if you wanna call that suffering, maybe there's a little bit of suffering. I think we all had jobs, you know, as we were growing up that maybe you look back, you know, that was suffering, but it was a good for our character building. All right. So get beyond the suffering though. And let's get to a place where we can be more strategic and leverage our experience, leverage collaboration with other people, which is a lot what we're doing right now today.   David Phelps 01:13:59 What you, you all do so well, there's ways to enhance your income, even if it's it's part of your business plan or also as we'll talk about, I'm sure on the, on the passive side, you can do both more easily than you can on the quote suffering side. So I don't want people to think about suffering, but yes, I think I talked to young people and, and Wendy, you were talking about, I'm so glad you were able to connect with, with our, our, our young next, next gen from freedom founders and sewing to them. You know, if I could go back and, and talk to my younger self or talk to these kids as we do, it's, it's like, don't lift your lifestyle escalate too quickly. You know, stay in that mode where, you know, you, you've had to kind of, you know, eek it out and, and, and don't ramp it up.   David Phelps 01:14:46 I was talking to a, a doctor just this last week, you know, he, he does quite well, but he's, he's kept his burn rate low. And I said, I said, how have you been able to do that? Because most people, as they escalate, their income goes right up. And he said, you know, my wife and I just got used to the fact that when we got outta school, we had student loans to pay off. And that required us to, you know, to live modestly. And he said, even after we got our student loans paid off, we decided to know happiness and joy doesn't come from necessarily elevating our, our lifestyle. So we've kept our burn rate low. Well, that doctor today has, has, has a son and a daughter ages four and eight. So he's, he's under 40 just giving you a little bit of character. He's under 40. And, and he's got a lot of flexibility in his life. A lot of flexibility to, to, to do different things. Even with his technical expertise in dentistry, he does different things. He's not, he's not anchored down to one schedule, one place to go, you know, four or five days a week, like so many are. And so he's built that freedom and by keeping his burn rate modest,   Wendy Sweet 01:15:45 You know, it's funny when you're talking about that, it really reminds me of my two sons. I have a 19 year old son and a 21 year old son. And they are like rich, but dad, poor dad, you know, one is, is, you know, saves his money. He works hard. He, he, he almost bought himself a boat and he asked my opinion, mom, should I do this? When I I'm really interested in buying a house, that's my big goal. And he's 19. And I said, well, how does buying a boat help you get a house? And he said, that's all I needed to hear. And he walked away from that desire. Now had I said that to my, well, my 21 year old wouldn't have even asked me, but you know, had I said that to him, he'd be flying around in a boat. Yeah.   Wendy Sweet 01:16:35 You know, as fast as he could on the lake. So, oh, I was getting ready to say, that's, that's pretty incredible that he could fly on the boat. Yeah. It's an near boat, but it's, it's, you know, I loved when we were at your last freedom founders event and you were talking about burn rate and you, you, with this group, you went through all the things you really need to look at. And question, is this something you really need now? Do you really need the big house? You know, do you really need the fanciest? You went down that list. And if you could talk just a little bit about just really giving people an idea of things they really should be looking at to decrease that burn rate.   David Phelps 01:17:22 Well, house living quarters is certainly one of the big ones, whether you rent or, or own, you know, the larger, the square footage, the more utility cost you have just to heat and cool, right. Property taxes are higher. Insurance is higher, just maintaining a certain square footage, interior and exterior has a cost factor to it. So even if you have a free and clear house, which is a great goal to have, but if it's large, then it's gonna require a certain overhead or a burn rate just to sustain that large capacity house. If you rent, I mean, same thing. You're gonna pay proportionately for the size. So do you need all of that? Right? I think so that that's a big one. I think other aspects would be. And I, I just look at vehicles, I, for me, a vehicle or car is just something that will securely and reliably get me, you know, from here to there where whatever my, my transportation needs are, I'm not judging people who want to have nice cars at all.   David Phelps 01:18:20 I'm just saying, it's just look at, I, I just always buy used cars and I just drive. 'em a lot of miles. That's just that's me. It is. It's like, it's almost like a badge of honor for me. And I think I got that from my dad. My dad was the same way. So like father, like son, you know, I just, I just drive. But you know, I just feel good about that because going back to your point, Wendy, about your two sons, I've always looked at the additional discretionary dollars I have by not having those, you know, inside of my burn rate, having to put fund my lifestyle. If I can cut that back, I've got more dollars I can put into investments. The ones I like that will produce, you know, additional income. So when I do want to enjoy something more, like rather than buy a boat, I would just tell your son rent, go rent the boat.   David Phelps 01:19:03 You can rent a really nice boat for a weekend or a week or whatever you wanna do. And then just give it back. See, I think that's the way to do those nice things. People like to have vacation homes again, not judging, but I think it's better personally to, well, you'll like this Wendy rent, Airbnb, you go where you want to go rent the air and B for in the weekend, the week, whatever you can go to different places and people, oh, well you you're just wasting your money. No, actually I didn't have the extra expenses, the, and, and the hard costs and, and the mortgage and everything else on that. Airbnb. Now, if you run it as a business, different ballgame, but I'm just saying people that like a vacation home, why don't you just get the extra money, invest it in something, an asset they'll produce. And then you can go have, have vacations all over the place when you decide to do it.   Wendy Sweet 01:19:46 That's right. And if you go to sweet spots, stay vacations, you can find any kind shameless blog shameless.   David Phelps 01:19:56 I hear that to you just about right. Was that about the right letter? Yes.   Wendy Sweet 01:19:59 Thank you. The other thing too, I, I think little things make a difference as well. And people don't think about this. How much are you really paying for your cable TV that you really need it? Like, even, even us as a company, every time we have our financial meeting, once a month, we still go through all of our credit card statements. We look at all the auto, automatic payments that are being made here and there, those little things, the first time we ever did it, we saved $16,000.   Jonathan Davis 02:20:28 And that was nothing big. That was all just like little, little things here and there that were just tacked on. I mean, we, you know, all the time it   Bill Fairman 02:20:36 Was outdated. We weren't using it. Like we should have it wasn't efficient,   Jonathan Davis 02:20:40 But I mean, David hit a, a great point and, and I don't want it to be lost on people. It's like, you know, your, your burn rate can increase, but do it in conjunction with your assets producing income increasing. Absolutely because that, that's the, that's the first piece, get the assets producing. Then you can increase over here, cuz these assets are, are supply that which is counter to most Americans who've added a hundred million or a hundred billion in instant gratification. Yeah. In instant debt.   David Phelps 02:21:14 Yeah. To me, to me, to me having asset based income quote, passive income in, in the right investments is, is like the best insurance policy. Sure. When, when I have the benefit and the blessing to, to work with couples and again, these are, you know, educated couples, typically one, one of the others, a professional practice owner, oftentimes not always, but oftentimes the spouse who, who is the spouse, who is the matriarch, the then I call the, typically the nurturer, the protector of the family. And, and they do a great job of that. We have to hand it to the, the moms and our wives who, who, who they function at much higher degree than we do typically in that regard. So they look at everything from the standpoint of, of, you know, investment or expense and most things are in expense to them. Cuz they're trying to again, protect the family, protect the family.   David Phelps 02:22:04 What I realize is, is in talking to a lot of these couples, the high income earner who goes out and you know, works, works outside the home is, is thinking well, you know, sky's the limit, you know, I can, you know, keep earning and keep building and she's thinking security, security, okay. Well guess we have insurance. We have life insurance and disability insurance. And, but that's not enough. I want to know if something happened to his or her income capabilities, what's there besides an insurance policy that would keep some kind of cash flow coming. And what I realized is when I showed them that you don't need to be able to just replace hi his or her income, if you can just replace your burn, rate your lifestyle burn rate with that asset based income, that's like the best security in the world because now, and, and I see the, the stress come out of their faces. They don't have to understand all the financial machinations of how real estate works and all that. They just wanna say, you know, are there checks in the mail or ACH, you know, that are coming in, that I can actually see and they're coming from not his or her work it's coming from this investment that we made and that's producing and sustainable is predictable. That's what, that's what so many of the women I see that are these protectors and nurturers, they wanna understand that part.   Bill Fairman 02:23:16 Right. Right. Well, I, I did wanna touch on one little thing before we wrap up this segment, you still have a motion that gets involved with that home that you've been in for probably 20, 30 years raised your kids in even, you know, if it's free and clear and, and in my opinion, that's, that's a way to downsize take that extra money and use it to invest in something that is gonna create some cash flow for you. But you, you know, you still have that emotion. When I first started originating mortgage loans, as soon as the wife started talking and I'm sorry, it's usually the wife. I don't mean to, yeah, don't be a bigot. But   Wendy Sweet 02:23:59 Usually   Bill Fairman 02:23:59 When they're already talking to me about, you know, they've picked up or picked the curtains for certain rooms, I knew this transaction was going through. Yeah. Because it's about the emotion. How do you overcome that emotion or, or do you,   David Phelps 02:24:13 Well, I don't think, I don't think you overcome it. I think, I think that that, that plays into part of everybody's lives to some extent. And so if you're talking about the, the sentiment of a family home, that you've raised all your kids in, but look, I think we have to, at some point, let go, you can, you know, you can always take pictures, I take pictures,   Wendy Sweet 02:24:36 Take pictures.   David Phelps 02:24:37 And, and then when you get together at Wendy's Airbnb and you call this great memories you had there, but yes, John effectively, you got the money working better for you. So   Bill Fairman 02:24:50 Yeah. You remember when aunt SU kept tripping over that step? You wouldn't fix there.   David Phelps 02:25:00 Memories, bad memories there, the book you don't keep those.   Bill Fairman 02:25:05 That's   Wendy Sweet 02:25:06 Awesome. We wanna also bring up his book, right? Yeah. Let's talk about your book, David.   David Phelps 02:25:11 Sure. All right. Well, I, I published the book. I published the book get's behind me, but I, I actually have a yeah. Copy there. And I think it's there's so it's inflation inflation, the silent retirement killer. You all were talking about a little bit on the front end of, of the opening of the show today is that yeah, we are in different times than this country is seen in really four decades. And we're seeing, you know, heavy headwinds of inflation and what the fed is trying to do to offset that and what, what that may cause as a, as a down line situation with recession correction. So we just, yeah, we, we put together this book and, and it's a there's there's history and, and fundamentals and economics in it, but there's also, you know, what you can do. I mean, part of this show today is like what people can do to protect and hedge themself against inflation, the high costs, and then protect against, you know, downside risk protection in, in the markets. I'm talking about like financial markets that are very, very volatile typically. And that's why we like real estate because there's much less volatility in real estate, much more predictable.   Bill Fairman 02:26:13 So you can, we   David Phelps 02:26:14 Got, you can pick. Yeah. You can pick that book up off of Amazon and thank you for putting the   Bill Fairman 02:26:20 Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We, we have a, a direct link to the page over there in the chat and we will, well, that will stay on there so you can just click it on and go right to it. David has a lot of books and he does a really nice job of explain, taking the complicated and making it simple to understand. And   David Phelps 02:26:39 I like, I like the idea of, of how to outwit the fed that's Jerome Powell. Don't you wanna, everybody wanna outwit Jerome Powell? I kinda do. I wanna outwit him. So we have a prior attack on how to outwit Jerome Powell. I'm not, I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm just saying let's just outwit him. Right. He's   Wendy Sweet 02:26:56 Shouldn't be too hard.   Jonathan Davis 02:26:57 And   Bill Fairman 02:26:57 I may just comment last week, the real estate space in the right space. It it's a defensive play that continues to grow. So you can still get growth over time. You get, you can get some tax benefits as well. And, and it's still a, a defensive play. Although if you read the headlines and they talk about the real estate crashes, those are the people that aren't investing.   David Phelps 02:27:21 Yeah. Well, headlines are click baked. I mean, they just, they, they have to always make hype everything. Everything, everything is is, is extreme, extreme, right. Everything today. And so yes, if you're, don't, don't watch that the, we know from our experience decades, decades of investing in real estate, that real estate is much less fault. Yes, it is affected, but we there's lag time. There's plenty of time to position yourself the right way. And, and that's what I love about real estate. I don't have to be a trader in fact, watch the market every day and see what's happening. Go, oh my gosh. You know, I just lost 20% on my, my account. Nope. That didn't happen in my real estate. Nope. Didn't happen. Right.   Wendy Sweet 02:27:57 That's right. That's   Jonathan Davis 02:27:58 That's, that's the point I was gonna bring in the stocks. You worry about actual principle loss often. And in real estate, you very rarely have to worry about principal loss. Right? Right.   Bill Fairman 02:28:09 David, thank you for being so gracious and being on our show. I wanna mention that David will be on next week's show. So if you see all of us in the same close,   David Phelps 02:28:18 Because   Bill Fairman 02:28:19 We're recording this right after this one,   David Phelps 02:28:22 Just one question. Do I have to go back and sleep in the green room for the next week?   Jonathan Davis 02:28:26 Yeah. You   Wendy Sweet 02:28:27 Hope you send yourself some green. M and Ms.   Bill Fairman 02:28:32 Thank you so much, David. Thank   David Phelps 02:28:34 You guys.   Bill Fairman 02:28:35 Jonathan, would you like to ask the question of the   Jonathan Davis 02:28:38 Week? The question of the week is this one right here? That's right.   Bill Fairman 02:28:41 We're fancy have Monica   Wendy Sweet 02:28:48 It's right there on the screen.   Bill Fairman 02:28:49 Scott told me to pause.   Jonathan Davis 02:28:50 I, that picture looks like I have way more white hair than I don't. I dunno. Makes you look smarter. Okay. All right. All right. So the question of the we guys we want to know is what is like, well, I mean, money mindset is a precursor to spinning behavior. What is your money mindset right now? Is it positive? How do you think about and relate to money? We wanna know. I mean, this on the heels of talking about burn rate, what you can do to, you know, increase income. Also consumer spending is higher than it's ever been in 21 years. So just kinda wanna know what your mindset is. And   Wendy Sweet 02:29:23 You can answer right here on our chat. Yeah. Whether it's live or not,   Jonathan Davis 02:29:26 You can below side, I don't know. Wherever it is on your, there might be a be you ring. I don't know.   Bill Fairman 02:29:33 And yes, it's an essay question because it's like don't   Wendy Sweet 02:29:36 Pal question.   Jonathan Davis 02:29:37 Yeah. We won't accept answers less than two paragraphs.   Bill Fairman 02:29:41 We upcoming quest and you, you can still get 30% off by using the code. Fairman 30, which is also over in the chat bar. Yeah. It's a great way to network with folks and learn all about ways to invest your self-directed IRA who see you there.   Jonathan Davis 03:30:18 One of my fun personal games is to count the second I, that it takes you to realize that you've been muted and something else is playing, but you're still talking.   Bill Fairman 03:30:28 Listen, I never stopped talking three. Okay. Thank you so much for joining us on the real estate show hard money for real estate investors. We are Carolina capital management, private lenders in the Southeast for real estate professionals. Like I told, look at a project of yours, go to Carolina, hardman.com and click on the apply. Now tab, if you're a passive investor, looking for passive returns and click on the accredited investor tab. Wait a minute. Okay. Don't forget. Delight, share, subscribe, and hit the bell. And don't forget about Wednesdays with Wendy C next week.   speaker 1 03:31:14 Hey.  

On this episode of the podcast, we take a few minutes to talk about the other virus making headlines—and then return to long COVID.

On this episode of the COVID, Quickly podcast, we take a few minutes to talk about the other virus making headlines—and then return to long COVID.

We are delighted to be speaking with Johann Zietsmann today! Johann is the President and CEO of the Adrienne Arsht Center in Miami. He joins us to share his unique and fantastic journey and talk about servant leadership, the philosophy of Ubuntu, and the arts. We even sing a little bit!   We hope you enjoy listening to today's captivating conversation with Johann Zietsmann! Bio: Johann Zietsman:  Born in the 1950s in South Africa, Johann Zietsman grew up under the Apartheid regime and first got involved in the arts as a brass player in his high school band. That led to his lifelong passion for the transformative value and role of the arts in a community. After serving in the military, he graduated as an architect, and Johann and his wife, Tharrie, moved to Ithaca, New York, where he completed a Master's degree in music. After returning to South Africa in 1982, Johann started a 20-year career in various executive arts management positions, including a music school, two orchestras, an opera, and music theatre company, a community arts center, a large multi-theatre performing arts company, and a commercial communications company. During this time, he was actively involved in the political transformation of his homeland through pioneering work in the arts, resulting in recognition from Mr. Nelson Mandela's government. As a volunteer, he launched and directed two community youth initiatives, which currently serve about 4000 at-risk children (annually) in townships. Johann and his family moved to the United States when he was recruited in 2002 by the International Society for the Performing Arts (ISPA), based in New York City. Since June 2007 he served as Executive Director of the Mesa Arts Center, and Director of Arts and Culture for the city of Mesa, Arizona. In December 2009, Johann accepted the position of President and CEO of Arts Commons in Calgary, Canada. He took up the role of President & CEO of the Adrienne Arsht Center in Miami in December 2018. Johann's journey Johann was born in South Africa during the apartheid. As with many other white South Africans, he grew up with the idea things were normal. In time, however, he realized how terrible and wrong apartheid was and tried to do something about it.  The military At eighteen, he got conscripted into the military to keep the “terrorists” (black people organizing resistance against apartheid) out of South Africa. He spent many years with other white South African soldiers in guerrilla warfare on the northern border between Namibia and Angola. He was also studying architecture and playing the French horn in a local symphony orchestra for pocket money at the same time. A difficult journey It was a difficult journey for people like Johann, who questioned apartheid and worked against it.  A music degree After graduating as an architect, Johann married and went to Ithaca, New York, where he did a Master's degree in music.  Returning to South Africa Johan and his wife returned to South Africa to be part of the struggle for democracy, and Johann spent the next twenty years working in arts management. Emigrating In 2002, Johann got recruited to a job in New York, so he and his family emigrated. He has lived and worked in various places in the US since then and has been in Miami for the last three-and-a-half years. Arts are universal Arts are universal because all humans have similar dreams, desires, and aspirations. We all laugh when we're happy, cry when we're unhappy, and dance when we hear music. The universality of the arts ultimately brought Johann to the profession he decided to pursue. A lesson learned from the arts One night, while at a shabeen (a bar/nightclub in a South African “township”) with some friends, Johann was fortunate enough to see the famous South African actor, John Kani, and another actor performing a play called The Island. It was written by South African playwright Athol Fugard and is about two Robben Island prisoners discussing what they want to do after their release. Johann did not know who John Kani was back then, but he loved the experience! A decision for life Watching The Island was the first time Johann fully understood that black and white people were the same emotionally. The understanding conveyed to him via the arts prompted him to become involved with the arts for the rest of his life. Nelson Mandela Johann met Nelson Mandela three times. He was a true leader, and Johann found him even more wonderful than everyone said he was! Teaching black kids Johann taught black kids over weekends while running the music school in Cape Town, even though he was not supposed to do so. He also visited Robben Island several times to do music demonstrations for the prison guards' children when Nelson Mandela was imprisoned there.  The Adrienne Arsht Center The Adrienne Arsht Center was started 20 to 25 years ago by members of the Mami community. The famous Argentinian architect, Cesar Pelli, designed the building and shaped it to look like two big mountains. The concert hall and the ballet house are both world-class venues. There are also smaller performance venues and other venues for education. The center is now in its 16th operating season. It typically does about 430 shows each year and attracts about 400,000 people. Miami Miami keeps on changing. To Johann, it appears to be a city that always wants tomorrow to be better than today. He finds the energy intoxicating! Covid Covid hit the Adrienne Arsht Center very hard. It was one of the first types of business to close down and one of the last to re-open. When it happened, Johann said the center lost its voice.  The Community Throughout Covid, Johann and his team wanted to improve the lives of everyone in their community in any way they could. They launched many different online programs. They also launched Arsht On the Road, a pop-up show that appeared in hotels, hospitals, and shopping centers.  Local artists Johann and his team did whatever they could to engage local artists and help them make some money because the gig scene had dried up. Online monetization Johann believes that there are more opportunities for online monetization in brand new work that has never been seen before and work that people are unlikely to see live. Ubuntu Ubuntu is an ancient African philosophy very close to Johann's heart. The philosophy embodies our inter-dependency as humans and is lived authentically in the African community. It means that if you are unhappy, I cannot be happy. Or if I have food, you will not go hungry. (Directly translated, it means that a person is a person through other people.) Great South African leaders like Nelson Mandela and the late Archbishop Desmond Tutu were advocates for Ubuntu.   Connect with Eric On LinkedIn On Facebook On Instagram On Website   Connect with Johann Zietsman The Adrienne Arsht Center Johann Zietsmann on LinkedIn  

El biólogo computacional aseguró que las cifras de Covid-19 están estancadas en una meseta alta, actualmente. Además, detalló las consecuencias del denominado "long Covid" (Covid largo).

We were going to do a podcast this week but Josh has Covid. Ugh.

Caught the 'vid. Be back next week! 

The SOS Interview Series. Join us in this 4th of 4 series of interviews with Joanne Collins. Joanne has worked in healthcare for 27 years in many capacities including direct clinical care, administration, and most recently Covid research with East Tennessee State University College of Public Health Center for Cardiovascular Risk Research. She has a Master's Degree in Public Health and she is a US Board Certified Health Coach specializing in diabetes care. Join Doug Staci & Joanne for this amazing interview and FOLLOW, LIKE and SHARE SOS with others so you all get to hear this episode AND the upcoming episodes, this being the 1st in a series of 4. SINK or SWIM a Long Covid Long Haulers Podcast The long term affects of the covid-19 virus, for some, are devastating. Hear Staci & Doug discuss the beginning of the Covid-19, Long Haulers, Long Covid 2 years plus (we call it Chronic Covid Syndrome). Staci and Doug both discuss on Sink or Swim a Long Covid Long Hauler podcast, how life on a daily basis has been rerouted by a defining event. Join Doug & Staci for a another Lived Experience with Chronic Covid Syndrome. Sink or Swim a Lived Experience with Covid-19 Long Haulers Long Covid info@sinkorswimpod.com https://sinkorswimpod.com/ Blog at: https://sinkorswimpod.com/f/why-the-name-chronic-covid-syndrome-is-more-accurate

Today, we are happy to be speaking with the legendary John Ruhlin! John is the founder of Giftology, and he is full of energy and great ideas! In this episode, John tells his fascinating story and talks about how he created Giftology. He explains how he developed the understanding of giving personal gifts and shares his best marketing and sales referral tool. He also discusses why you should focus on your inner circle and why he wrote the book Giftology. We hope you enjoy listening to today's enlightening conversation with John Ruhlin! JOHN RUHLIN BIO:  John Ruhlin is the world's leading authority in maximizing customer loyalty through radical generosity. He is the founder and author of Gift·ology and has been featured in Fox News, Forbes, Fast Company, Inc, and the New York Times. While becoming the #1 performer out of 1.5 million sales reps for one of the world's most recognizable brands, John developed a system of using generosity to gain access to elite clients and generate thousands of referrals. He and his firm now help automate this process for individuals and organizations like UBS, Raymond James, DR Horton, Keller Williams, the Chicago Cubs, and Caesar's Palace. John and the Gift·ology team can help any individual turn their clients into their own personal sales force to drive exponential growth. John's story John grew up in a modest family on a farm in a small town in Ohio. He learned, early on, that if he wanted something, he had to work for it. John did very well at school and wanted to become a doctor or a chiropractor. But his life and plans changed after he started dating a girl whose father, Paul, was a generous rain-making attorney. Mentorship Paul showed up in unusual ways for his relationships. That inspired John to want to be just like him at sixty. John was interning with Cutco, selling knives to pay for med school. He was not good at selling, and after he pitched to Paul, Paul offered to help him hit his goals.  Relationships Paul taught John that everything boiled down to relationships. Paul explained that if you take care of the family in business, everything else takes care of itself. That struck a chord with John. He started to mimic Paul in his relationships and sent some expensive knives to some CEOs he wanted to meet with as gifts. After pitching the CEO of a large insurance company, John walked out with an order for 1,000 knife sets! Number 1 distributer Cutco has worked with about 2,000,000 sales reps over 70 years. John became their number one distributor in the entire global history of the company by using the idea of giftology!  Giftology Giftology is about building relationships. If you want referrals, deal flow, or employee retention, you need to inspire people to want to advocate on your behalf. The best marketing sales referral tool  John learned early on that if you go all-in and show something in your relationships, it will come back to you a hundred-fold. He found it one of the best marketing sales referral tools on the planet!  All over the world John now owns a consulting agency that teaches people how to do giftology. He also writes books and speaks about it all over the world.  The core of his business The core of John's business is teaching people how to love relationships thoughtfully and at scale, while moving people emotionally. What John discovered about gifts  John discovered that it does not help to send people a gift with your logo on it. It is better to send them something personal with their name on it.  A recipe for building relationships John noticed that there was a recipe for building relationships with giftology. For it to work, you have to follow the recipe to the letter because every tiny detail and every intention counts. We were designed to want to reciprocate and do nice things for people who do things for us with no strings attached. Kindness, generosity, and love Everyone wants to be appreciated, acknowledged, and loved. The companies crushing it all lead with kindness, generosity, and love. They care for their employees and clients and invest in them. The inner-circle John believes that the inner circle matters just as much as the person writing the checks because those people influence the decisions. A six-figure deal John closed a six-figure deal with a basketball team because he treated the inner circle the same as he treated the CEO.  Event planners John treats event planners like gold because they have gone out of their way at times to become sales reps for his brand.  Show up repetitively and consistently When you move from being passively loyal to being actively loyal and show up repetitively and consistently for a relationship because you want to, not because you have to, the relationship will flourish. John's book, Giftology John wrote the book to spread the idea of giftology to others. He also wanted to drive credibility, have a global impact, and be the first one in the leadership space to talk about using gratitude and generosity to grow relationships and revenue. He has sold 110,000 copies in the last six years, and it changed everything for him! Covid Covid has shifted the priorities of many, but humans still need to connect. So although Covid made John realize that he can have an impact from afar, he still enjoys appearing on a big stage once or twice a month, shaking hands with people, and signing books.   Connect with Eric On LinkedIn On Facebook On Instagram On Website   Connect with John Ruhlin On LinkedIn Books mentioned: Giftology: The Art and Science of Using Gifts to Cut Through the Noise, Increase Referrals, and Strengthen Client Retention, by John Ruhlin Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, by Gary Vaynerchuk Save Your Asks: Evolve Your Networking Currencies. Grow Your Influence. Triple Your Business, by Chris Tuff

Interview with GP from Sydney, Arevik Gazarjan, and aromatherapist and perfumer from the Gold Coast, Elina Kostina. - Интервью с врачом общей практики из Сиднея Аревик Газарян и ароматерапевтом и парфюмером из Голд Кост Элиной Костиной. 

Spencer Edwards, a shareholder and trial lawyer with The Hudgins Law Firm in Houston, joins us on today's show. Spencer talks about how to conduct yourself in trial, being eager to learn, and demonstrating work ethic in an interview.His firm/practice97 Baylor Law grad (25 years of practice)Catastrophic Injury / Wrongful Death trial lawyer (though hasn't tried one since 2019 due to COVID)COVID has essentially created a backlog of cases and trials, and that hasn't stopped new cases from coming inHas a case set for trial March 1stThe shift in the judiciary has made an impact on the practice (R to D in Harris County), which initially meant actual trial lawyers were on the bench which was helpful. But now, there has been a shift in competence, experience, and consistency as well, which creates a different dynamicMore high dollar verdicts in recent years has injected uncertainty on the defense side in valuing cases as well as emboldened plaintiff's lawyersAdvice to lawyers in practiceRemember that you are going to work with/against lawyers/judges again, so don't be a jerk!ChillNo need to be super aggressiveOnly takes one moment to damage your reputationThrow inside if you must, but don't throw a beanball!If another attorney does that to you, however, you have to be willing to push back, especially in front of the juryIf rules of procedure/evidence don't apply, then they aren't going to apply, so don't be the only one confined by themAlso have to be prepared for rulings against you, even if they are clearly wrongDo it with a smile on your face; don't lose your cool; don't try to embarrass the judge; you can get makeup calls!Keep perspectiveYou are going to lose cases, even some you should have won (you'll probably win some you should have lost)Don't let losses devastate youExude confidence in the courtroom; act like you feel like you can/should winDon't be afraid to ask dumb questions / pride is dangerous to a young lawyerAnd ask whyDon't make the same mistake twiceIf something needs to get done right now, that might not be the best time to push back/challenge/ask why...just do it! Find the right time/context.The best way to develop business is to do good work; and then watch the way lawyers at your firm develop their business and imitate thatLearn how to talk on the phone! Older partners/clients expect it and are used to itAdvice to Lawyers On The Lateral MarketHe's not a big resume guy!At their firm, a couple of younger lawyers review all the resumes and decide who to interview, and so he rarely sees the resumes. Also, law schools vary with their grading scales, so it is hard to compare candidates based on thatImpressed with work history (even in high school and college) that demonstrates work ethicImportant to bring up these things in an interview if you realize it could help you, since these items are likely not on your legal resumeFinal ThoughtFrom Professor Matt Dawson's speech to his law school graduating class: "I'm a smart guy, but that's not why I have been successful. I am successful because I have always worked hard. Don't get outworked. Don't let the other side beat you by outworking you." Great trial lawyer advice.Rapid Fire QuestionsName one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Eager to learnWhat habit has been key to your success: Get some sleepFavorite app/productivity tool: WhiteboardWhat would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Baseball / AstrosFavorite legal movie: My Cousin VinnyThanks again to Spencer Edwards for joining us on today's show!

IoT and the COVID-19 moment Tech journalist and IoT trend-setter Stacey Higgenbothom on IoT's COVID relevance Stacey Higginbotham is a freelance writer who has spent the last 15 years covering technology and finance for publications such as Fortune, Gigaom, The Deal, The Bond Buyer and BusinessWeek. Stacey covers the Internet of things, semiconductors, and artificial intelligence. Check out Stacey on IoT Stacey on IoT | Internet of Things news and analysis     Episode transcript: The transcription of this episode is auto generated by a third-party source. While Microshare takes every precaution to insure that the content is accurate, errors can occur. Microshare, Inc.  is not responsible for any errors or omissions, or for the results obtained from the use of this information. Michael Moran [00:00:00] This is manifest density. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this edition of Manifest Density, your host Michael Moran here, and we are going to explore the intersection of COVID 19, global business society and technology today. Manifest density is brought to you by the global smart building and ESG data company Microshare. Unleash the data. Today, we're going to talk technology. In fact, we're going to talk about the Internet of Things, and I'm very, very pleased to have today. Stacy Higginbotham, who is the curator and writer of Stacy on IoT really, really well circulated newsletter. So it's a real pleasure to welcome you to manifest density.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:00:43] Thank you for having me. I'm really excited.  Michael Moran [00:00:46] Stacy, we follow you here. Microshare fairly religiously. I get your newsletter, forwarded it to me all the time. And so it's it's overdue that I reached out. Had you on the program,  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:00:58] you could sign up for it directly.  Michael Moran [00:01:01] Yeah, I know I do. Actually, I get it. But you know what that's like? I get about 350 emails a day. It's overwhelming. How does one become a journalist who covers the Internet of Things? What was your journey?  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:01:13] Oh, it was meant to say time consuming because I've been a tech journalist for probably about 20 years, a little over that now. And I started out covering semiconductors because I was was actually a reporter for a local Austin paper, and semiconductors was a big business. So I did that and then I went into networking and then I went into wireless and cloud computing and databases. And around 2012, all of those things started to come together in what we were calling the Internet of Things. And we were really excited about it. And I had. Basically, all the technical elements, so it was kind of fun for me because all of a sudden I went from this person who babbled on about spectrum policy and like new wireless standards at parties to somebody who could talk about really cool gadgets. And so like, my stock went up tremendously, and that is basically how I started covering the Internet of Things. So for the sake  Michael Moran [00:02:12] of those who listen to this podcast and don't always dove into the technology, give us a quick definition from you from apart from on high, I should say, of what the Internet of Things is and how it's kind of evolved over the last 12 years or so.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:02:31] Yes. And before before I got into it, it was called M to M. So I'm not going to say that it was like the Internet of Things has always been here in some ways, or as as long as there's been wireless connectivity and computing. So basically, my definition of the IoT is when cheap computing, ubiquitous wireless and cheap sensors all came together in a way around it. It started out around smartphones was the renaissance of this. But all of that comes together and it makes the invisible visible. And I am so excited about this opportunity because we can do so much with the information if we can just figure out how to grab it cheaply, how to behave ethically with it, and how to deliver insights that can really help us. I look at it is helping us fix the climate. I think it's really important to helping people live better, maybe more fulfilling lives. I don't want to go that far and really just help us be the best versions of ourselves. So that sounds really super optimistic, but it's also very concrete.  Michael Moran [00:03:45] Yeah, I mean, so I mean, I try really hard, except for the sponsorship slots to keep microshare out of this podcast. If you listen, you know that. But this is so directly relevant to what we do because in effect, what we've tried to do is take the complexity out of iOttie and make. My CEO Ron ROCs likes to say our customers don't even know how to spell iOttie. So ultimately, the idea is that you have a an outcome rather than a technology product. Do you have data that's telling you whether the air quality is sufficient or data that's telling you how many people are in a room or whether the water temperature is is being calibrated properly so that you don't get Legionnaires disease or, you know, those types of data feeds that never existed before, you know, and in the world that we operate in. You know, I like to say, you know, we take these what we're once inert brick and mortar assets and we create vital signs we create. We show you that actually, this is a living breathing entity. This this building, it's got air, it's got a circulatory system, it's got a plumbing system, so it's got a digestive system. So ultimately, we can kind of track the condition and the operations and the wellness of the environment. And that's huge and think. And it also has that, as you referred to this incredible sustainability application in terms of knowing how you're treating the people in your space or knowing how much energy you're using and whether it's used efficiently, things like that. I mean, is this something that was it? It is. Those are the kind of things that were imagined in the beginning or has this kind of evolved with things like the pandemic and recessions and.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:05:31] Things have definitely evolved with the pandemic. I think in the beginning, I mean, if we look all the way back, I actually just had someone on my podcast who created the term IoT all the way back in 1985. So his name was Peter Lewis, and he was the one of the founders of Cellular one. And basically, he he back in 1985, was like, Hey, we've got this thing called the ARPANET. I've got mobile phone connectivity now. It's like, Let's let's sign up traffic lights and air conditioning and building and power grids, all to the cellular network so they can give their status. This is his vision 37 years ago. And I think we've always needed something like this, but it has been so hard again because sensors were expensive, wireless connectivity was expensive. The computing for the analytics was expensive, so I think we've always needed more information because that's what we do as people, right? We just didn't have a way to get it economically and feasibly. So you could only monitor super important things.  Michael Moran [00:06:43] OK, Stacey, we're going to take a break, perhaps a superfluous break since I've already talked about that sponsor. But to hear from our sponsor? OK, I am back with Stacey Higginbotham, who covers the Internet of Things from I o to T. Stacey, we're talking about how it's evolved over the years and the ubiquity of it potentially to create data in all sorts of places and spaces. But of course, that also means it's a big ubiquity, makes it an enormous target for cybercrime and hacking and all sorts of mischief. The IoT, it strikes me, had a pretty bad reputation in its early years because people were just hooking it up to their corporate networks. There's this famous story about the the fish feeder in a tank in some kind of an aquarium.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:07:34] I call this the fish. The fish tank that was heard around the world.  Michael Moran [00:07:39] Oh yeah. Tell us that story. It's funny.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:07:42] So this is this is probably I want to say it was from a Verizon security report, either in 2008, I think it was 2013, and a casino in Vegas had a fish tank monitor and that was on there. We'll just call it an OT network because it was just a sensor. Don't work, but it somehow connected to their I.T. network. So hackers were able to get in through the fish tank and then get into the rest of the casino network. A similar example that people always talk about is target. Their big data breach, and I don't. It was a while ago, probably same timeframe. Those hackers came in through the H-back system and then ended up in their point of sale system. So yes, we used to stick all kinds of things. We're like, Oh, I just put it on the internet, or let's just buy a network DVR and things. I mean, it sounds so ridiculous. But even as far back as 2013, when we were writing about this, we had to tell people to stop using hard coded passwords in their, you know, routing equipment, which now I would look at somebody like why? That's the craziest thing ever. So we've gotten a lot more sophisticated on the security side. I think what we're realizing, though, is as we try to lock this down, that we don't have the right security models in place. So we're starting to see them evolve like zero trust security and and that'll be really important going forward. But also equally important is getting rid of all that other stuff. We can't actually leave that on the network. It's yeah.  Michael Moran [00:09:17] So I had just moved this weekend to a new place and had to set up my Wi-Fi. And lo and behold, the password was password and the username was user. And the only thing they could have done to make that less secure was perhaps translate that into Russian. Make it easier. I mean, it's astounding. But so we've taken this approach to IoT security, which is very common now, which is you don't expect anybody to use their internal network. Of course, you don't want to your treasury anywhere near an IoT device. What you do is you create a LoRaWAN or Zigbee or some kind of internal, you know, low way, low bandwidth, low net cost, low end with network that essentially is completely disconnected from any kind of IP or anything that's that sensitive and run everything. There is kind of a closed loop. And, you know, I always think of that as early days of the internet. I was at MSNBC.com, which was the kind of pioneer at NBC News on the internet, and I was wondering why I couldn't get Andrea Mitchell and all these high profile correspondents to, you know, pay attention to what we were doing because we were breaking news on their beats. And it turned out that NBC News didn't allow them to go on the internet. It was astounding. They had the old, you know, dumb terminal approach to things because they were afraid that CBS would hack in and find out what's on nightly news.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:10:54] Oh my gosh, I can't imagine being a reporter and not having access to the internet.  Michael Moran [00:10:58] Well, I'm an old man now, but there was a time when the internet didn't exist, and I was, you know, one of the evangelists at NBC to try to get them to open the channel for their journalists. So they obviously did, and now they're very good at it. But it reminds me that approach. It's almost like we're going back to the future, right? We're creating now many networks to kind of quarantine the corporate network away and make the the IoT devices more secure. Is that a long term solution?  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:11:31] I have no idea, but I will say this, we have historically just very broadly speaking, try to make the world flat in, you know, if you think about technology in the internet at large, you think about like Facebook before it was super evil. They were to say, Hey, everybody can be who they are on the internet. No layers, very flat. We all talk to one another. That doesn't go well. I think we all want this, this utopia where everything's connected and it's easy. But I think adding that friction is probably important because humans are not all awesome people that you want to sit next to for a long period of time. Right? Or trust with your secrets and data. So I think this is a start. I actually did a story about it that just ran today on the web site was in last week's newsletter about the end of general purpose wireless networks, which talks actually to the specific thing, which is, we're going to have many, many, many networks and we're going to have to have ways to bring data from one to the other in ways that feel secure. And that is like way above my pay grade figuring all that out.  Michael Moran [00:12:45] Yeah, and that's about mine as well, though, that's precisely where the name of the company I work for came from Microshare, there's actually this incredibly complex back end that shares data in a very specific, carefully curated way with different types of stakeholders, with each of whom are assigned different permissions and ownership levels. And, you know, microshare had that has lived with the curse of being out in front of the market and in some cases, because who's going to buy that right? Right now, it's there's a data market data market out there, but it tends to be all about, you know, advertising and people selling your data without your really knowing it.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:13:32] That's one of my greatest disappointments is that that we've we had a chance that we still do. If you look at technology, you know, think about the launch of broadband back in, I don't know, 2000, when we start having dial up, right? It enabled all these companies and the underlying technology was not the key. It was what you did with it. And then we built the business models around that tied to advertising. And when I look at that and I see that coming to IoT, it's frustrating because the data is both more personal. So it feels much more insulting to get an ad for the fact that you were, you know, I don't know, Stacey, you only walked 2000 feet yesterday. You need to eat a salad, you know, just something that feels a little too intrusive and possibly judge. And then this idea that we could do so much more with it if we could figure out a different business model and we enabled trust. And this is trust from security, but trust also from the data that people have. So I feel like if we actually want the IoT to be what it can be, we need to dump the ad business model. And it's really hard to get away from that kind of highly lucrative flow of cash, but we got to figure it out.  Michael Moran [00:14:53] Yeah, and, you know, regulators are not going to do it because they were they would have. All right. Well, let's hold on, pause there and take a break to hear from our sponsor. OK, I'm back having a fascinating conversation with Stacey Higginbotham, the journalist who covers the Internet of Things. Her newsletter is really a must read for iOttie, and I hope you guys will go and sign up. Stacey, I wanted to talk about a little bit about the kind of confluence of COVID, which from our perspective, it made. It made the kind of nice to have internal environmental sensors a must have in some cases. So where we find that we're talking to a whole new group of people, not just facilities managers, not just it, but people like H.R. and people like CFOs who were wondering how much of their real estate portfolio was actually being used and which ones to get rid of which which buildings are sick buildings. You know, they're they're looking for data. They're looking for ways to make these big strategic decisions. How, you know, we also same time you've got this much larger trend that hopefully will outlast the pandemic on sustainability and environmental social governance practices, where IoT is once again quite relevant. You can create data streams that help you prove out your sustainability initiatives or help you report on how you're performing or what are you seeing out there. That's innovative. That's interesting.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:16:31] Oh, so many things. So you're right. COVID COVID definitely accelerated people's IoT deployments for a couple reasons. One. Everybody was going remote ray. So now you had to have the tools for them to be able to access whatever their job used to be, and that was a forcing function on that front and on the health care front. What I think is also relevant, and I don't know if it's because companies started seeing the data from like people counting or whatever they were doing with, we'll call it digital transformation. But basically, I'm just thinking, hey, slap at a bunch of sensors around in building up some applications that can use that sensor data to help make decisions, right? So once they did that for COVID, they saw potentially other things they could do with it. The other thing that I think is kind of tied to this and I don't know which is the cause of which is the effect is basically what I'm saying here is we had a really brutal series of suburbs in California with wildfires, which drove a lot of people to think about things like indoor air quality and made climate change in your face, in your face, I guess. And when that happened, we saw people recognizing the fact that their buildings could be more efficient and tied with that Kobe data that they were already getting or data tied to like people in the space, that sort of thing. We got a big push for sustainability in buildings. And I think. There's a stat and I can't remember where it's from, but it's basically like 40 percent of our carbon emissions come from buildings. I see that stat on every other press release right now because it is a very top of mind for both people buying stuff and for people trying to sell stuff. And I'm super excited about this because one, I think it is going to be great for energy efficiency, but to it gets us beyond asset tracking as a viable use case for the IoT. So I am all for anything that moves us beyond those first few things that people were really excited about  Michael Moran [00:18:44] so that the early so yeah, that's unpretty is that stat, I'm pretty sure.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:18:50] OK, there you go.  Michael Moran [00:18:51] Thank you. Principles of responsible investing. It's the United Nations principles, and that's where I think that comes from. And it's it's a kind of mash up of commercial real estate at 29 percent. You can tell I've quoted this before, and the rest of it is construction and development. So, but yeah, when you put it together, it's 40 percent of global emissions. That's gargantuan, right? Yeah, that's not picking on the couch. But ultimately, what about you know, what we're finding is that the kind of sustainability iOttie one to one point, oh, really wasn't about sensors. It was the technology was really web crawling spiders that looked at your utility bills and kind of uploaded that information to make it convenient. It really didn't change anything. There's no way you're going. You could you could do that and still burn inefficiently, you know, from now until the next century. But that was kind of the 1.0, the 2.0 to me, which is really not there yet. We are doing it. But I think once again, this is microshare out ahead of the market is in the social component of ESG, the social meaning, you know, how people are treated, whether buildings are responsive, whether they're safe, whether you know the quality of the air and the quality the water in the building is is being properly maintained, although those calibration kind of things that were taken for granted before the pandemic are now susceptible to IoT. And that could be a really powerful accelerant of, you know, not necessarily climate. Not everything in ESG is climate, remember, but of, you know, making a humane, safe, you know, performing workplace.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:20:42] Sure. Now I'm curious what you mean when you say a safe, humane performance workplace, because that implies that prior to this they weren't.  Michael Moran [00:20:51] Well, I don't think anybody who has ever worked in an office building and felt like they needed a Snickers bar and a cup of coffee at 4:30 realized that they were being poisoned by carbon.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:21:05] Got it. OK, so  Michael Moran [00:21:07] so this part of the you know, the reality that the pandemic has made people realize indoor spaces are not simply big, open empty places, there's things around you, there's the humidity, there's the temperature, there is carbon buildup, there are particulates in the air. Right, right. The extent to which you can know, for instance, for sure how many times a conference room was used today and whether it was cleaned. Right. Those are all things that are susceptible to data. And so ultimately, how many people are in the cafeteria right now? Do you really want to go in and waste a half an hour standing in line for coffee? Or you want to wait 20 minutes? Look at your phone app and say, Oh, there's no one there. I'm going now. And these are the kind of elements that I think I think the pandemic has kind of raised awareness of the value of these kind of things.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:22:03] I think the economics associated with this information have changed both the importance and the economics. So and I say that because of COVID, because you suddenly have possibly fewer workers, but you also recognize that keeping your workers means keeping them safe or keeping them at their desks means keeping them uninfected. So you have to track high quality indoor air, right? You have to make sure that's a thing in prior to that. There were companies doing this sort of thing, but they were they were. A lot of them were in Europe. Some of them were in China because air pollution is a bigger deal over there. But basically, they were sorry. But with COVID, it suddenly became important to companies to have that. Tracking and facilities management internal to their operations in some of this gets to the bottom line with technology, as we have a lot of things available to us, we can track all kinds of crazy stuff, but a lot of times we don't care about it until we have to. And that usually is based on some sort of economic incentive and for good or ill. I think that's what happened with COVID.  Michael Moran [00:23:24] So we're seeing now. I want to stay with air quality because it's an interesting use case, which we've seen several instances where a company recognizes the value of knowing about the quality of the air. And that's partly because productivity falls when the air quality is bad. But it's also because people now, as you said, retention and recruitment. People want to know these things because they don't want to spend most of their week sitting in a poisonous room, right? So but what do you do? This has been the great conundrum with air quality. All right. Let's say you have an air quality monitoring system installed in your building, and there's persistent bad air in one area and you've tried all the easy things opening windows, you know, tweaking the facts. Nothing's working. That's the I think that's the great conundrum. It's the warnings there. The economic incentive then becomes take the damn things out. We don't know, and we don't want to know.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:24:28] Well, so in I think I think that's kind of the challenge with iOttie without a use, without a clearly defined use case is that you'll start seeing things that you don't necessarily understand or you don't want to have to understand because fixing them is going to be expensive or a problem. And we actually see this with things like air quality monitoring outside of the outside, not just inside. So it's very well known that schools generate a lot of air pollution because parents come by and pick up their children and leave their engines idling. And to solve that problem, you would have to either. I mean, they tell people to turn off their engines, but you might also have to make Bible school leagues. And so in your example of having bad indoor air quality in a specific area, the onus then becomes from detecting the problem to figuring out why it's happening and then fixing it in. That's not a technology issue, right? That's a business or operational or societal issue. And I think a lot of times when we talk about technology, we forget. Even technologists who are building it, they forget that they're just a tool and we have to have all these other things around it to actually do what the tool is supposed to do.  Michael Moran [00:25:53] What do you think the role of regulators are in all of this? I have seen there have been a smattering of reports about New York City. I think in the UK, in the school systems there now, at least checking air quality doesn't mean they're monitoring it. But I think they do a test now and then what do you think we're going to see a world where regulators get involved in this?  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:26:18] I hope we do. And I say this because right now we have so many environmental or OSHA type regulations that we can't actually. Right now, they're they're checked by an inspector coming. If you look at like the EPA, they actually notify their factories before they show up in the factories. They're like, Oh, the EPA is coming to check our emissions tomorrow. Let's fix that. Oh, I think the same way we've managed things like cold chain, especially around food production or drug production, we could do that for environmental something in the air quality sensing. We just have to have the rules and then the stuff in place. And so I think I honestly do think it. I don't know why. Well, I do know why. So we should have sensors in place on, you know, any sort of manufacturing plant that the EPA is monitoring, right? And they should have a line into that sensor data so they can track it on an ongoing basis. Why don't we have responsive fines when things get out of whack? It's not impossible. Businesses are already doing it themselves. So I think the regulatory side, we have the laws, but we might be better off just moving to enforcement of the existing laws. And then, yes, I do think we need more laws around the types of things. We're going to hold people accountable for the types of outcomes that get generated. And it's really complicated.  Michael Moran [00:27:56] Yeah. So, Stacey, I wanted to ask one last question. What is the coolest? iOttie use case you've seen in the last year, what really kind of made you go wow  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:28:11] in the last year on the enterprise or consumer side,  Michael Moran [00:28:16] I just pick one. It doesn't matter, but enterprise will be fine. But consumers crucial to.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:28:25] Sorry. This is a hard one, because pandemic timing messes everything. I think the coolest thing I have seen and I think this was in 2020, but I'm not sure. Our. Density is a company that makes people motion tracking sensors for piercing density is a company that makes motion tracking. No density is a company that's made people counting sensors, and they do it using some proprietary algorithms and some infrared and thing I think is so cool about it is it's very accurate and it's also privacy first. And I've seen a lot of very cool things coming on the kind of RF sensing front that I think have a lot more potential than video cameras for basic tracking in ways that do not infringe on people's privacy. And I'm super excited about that.  Michael Moran [00:29:27] Yeah, we we went down that road as well with with Bluetooth based contact tracing wearables, and it was precisely because it didn't collect PII, which is personally identifiable information that it was successful. And you know, the other thing because the alternative with the smartphone tracking and we didn't like that for all sorts of reasons. We have clients on the world where smartphones are not necessarily ubiquitous. Plus, you're a manufacturer, you can't have a smartphone on the floor because it's firstly, it's dangerous because it's distracting and they the batteries run out. And so it defeats the whole contact tracing concept. So, yeah, we did. We did a bunch of stuff that was and I learned a new word sue. Anonymized. So as opposed to being anonymous, which means that you could never be uncovered, so to speak. The idea of contact tracing is if somebody reports a symptom, they can do a reverse database query and then unmask the various wearables to know who has been exposed to this person over the last week and tell them to get tested. So there had to be somebody who had the ability to find out, OK, what badge was John wearing? Because John needs to get tested before it comes back to the office. So it's, you know, we've had zero shutdowns in any of the places we deployed it. And but that was a major issue for us. The PII was, you know, you you download something onto your smartphone and your boss is not just tracking you work is tracking you everywhere. Right? So that's not cool. And no one wanted it. No one would download it.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:31:12] Yeah.  Michael Moran [00:31:13] There were all sorts of challenges that that led to the success of our product, which was universal contact tracing, especially in manufacturing environments where you just you can't send people home and still make revenue. So that was a really important kind of mid-pandemic success for us and got a lot of attention. And still, interestingly, because of the persistence of COVID where it's being renewed, what we thought was like a one year battlefield innovation turns out now people were in their third year of the contracts thanks to Delta and on the Crown, which, you know, we frankly would rather see this going away. It's not a huge chunk of our revenue, but  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:31:59] are they pulling in other data or using it for it? Because I think there's once you see broadly like where people cluster, I think there's some interesting opportunities around scheduling lunches or, you know,  Michael Moran [00:32:10] we are actually there's new applications often, you know, these are the brainchild of the client. So in the nursing home industry in the UK, we've done a several year study with contact tracing wearables in 16 nursing homes and that's been now expanded to 64. They call them care homes in the UK. And so, yes, this was very valuable to know when someone had symptoms who had they've been in touch with. But then the the nursing home administrators realized, OK, it's also prevented several people from wandering off campus, which, you know, the whole U.S. version of the silver alert someone with dementia. So they get an alert when somebody breaks the defense. And then the other part of it was they also noticed that in some nursing homes, the contact tracing wearables that were assigned to the staff were sitting in a break room and a suspicious circle. Turns out they were playing poker most of the day. And so this got the the kind of unpleasant nickname of slacker tracker. Now that's that's just kind of funny in the in the general world. But in a nursing home, part of the the therapeutic care of an elderly person is human contact. So the nursing home owners were realizing they're not even going and making rounds and saying hello to these people, and that means they're being basically storehouse. So that's become, you know, a really significant development project for us, and I think it's going to be, you know, part of the future. And again, it doesn't collect anybody's PII. But the it is possible to know how badge number eight three three three four is being worn by Joe Schmo, right? And that's part of the the value of it. So there comes a point where privacy, if you're going to get value and efficiency, there has to be transparency in that interaction. Sorry. There has to be transparency in that interaction, but ultimately there is a trade off with any technology.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:34:34] It's true, although I don't expect that level of privacy at work, so I'm OK with slacker trackers.  Michael Moran [00:34:43] Well, we used to have slackers trackers in the 20th century. They were called your boss and they just kind of would show up over your shoulder every once in a while and say. Why are you reading about the New York Yankees right now? That's the kind of stuff that happened all the time. So now we're just getting efficient next year.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:35:01] You're outing yourself here. I like it. All right,  Michael Moran [00:35:06] Stacy. It's been an enormous pleasure talking to you have gone way over. But because this is my podcast, it can be as long as I want. So ha.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:35:14] And because I'm on the podcast, on my podcast runs an hour, I mean, what did you think was going to happen? There you  Michael Moran [00:35:19] go. All right. So I wanted to give you an opportunity to tell the audience where they can follow your work and how they could sign up for our newsletter.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:35:29] Sure. Thank you. Y'all can find me at Stacy on IoT SI.com, or you can find and download the Internet of Things podcast wherever you get your podcasts.  Michael Moran [00:35:42] That's great. And of course, you know you can learn more about how microshare has helped get the world's safety back to work with ever smart suite of products. Sorry. With our ever smart suite of products, ever smart solutions, boost efficiency, enable cost savings and bring safety and reassurance to people inside your building portfolio. I would like to also remind you you could sign up for the podcast on our website. WW W Microshare Daddario and you can also find it on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, iHeartRadio. Every place where you can find audio, you can probably find this once again. Stacy, thank you for joining us. It's been a real pleasure.  Stacey Higgenbothom [00:36:21] Thanks for having me.  Michael Moran [00:36:22] And that'll do it for this week on behalf of all our global employees. This is Michael Moran at Microshare saying So long be well and thank you for listening. 

Israel Shalom suddenly felt faint, nauseous, and he could not breathe. He caved to the floor and experienced an angelic visitation. After being rushed to the hospital he was diagnosed with Covid (Covid-19), and Israel's case was the most severe manifestation of the disease. His heart stopped, not just once, but multiple times. During Israel's afterlife he experienced the most amazing sights and the most incredible encounter possible - he met Jesus. Israel shares his amazing story and the beautiful artwork he painted from his recollection of Heaven. You don't want to miss this inspiring story of hope through one of the most devastating pandemics of all-time.

Jasmin, Reese and Emily talk about staff shortages and other issues in NYC public schools due to COVID, the COVID-19 Federal Bureau of Prisons home confinement program, the resignation of Bureau of Prisons Director Michael Carvajal, the troubling anti-feminist movement in South Korea, and Brazil's government taking action against illegal timber schemes.

Curse of Politics was created by Air Quotes Media with support from our presenting sponsor TELUS, as well as CN Rail.David Herle, Jenni Byrne, and Scott Reid provide insights on the latest in Canadian politics. Plus, our weekly segments #Clippings + #HeyYou!Thank you for joining us on #CurseOfPolitics. Please take a moment to give us a rating and review on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts or your favourite podcast app.Watch conversations from Curse of Politics via Air Quotes Media on YouTube.

Dr. Cremers goes into detail about what to do if you or a loved one has COVID-19. She discusses home remedies, personal protection, and when to know if you should go to the hospital. Dr. Cremers discusses various supplements and treatments that reduce viral load, improve the immune system, and can protect you from spreading the disease to other people in your family. In the next episode Dr. Cremers will discuss Budesonide, mechanisms of recommended medications and personal opinions.Dr. Cremers's favorite products:Nebulizer https://amzn.to/3qfFyxkHumidifiers: these are the kinds we have in our bedrooms: https://amzn.to/3pk34do https://amzn.to/3pgOZgy For college dorm humidifier https://amzn.to/3svZkaJHandheld Heated Massager https://amzn.to/3H81vFrQuercetin chewable favorites https://amzn.to/3qfFOwi https://amzn.to/3Eklxe3Vitamin D: both are good Chewable https://amzn.to/3Fme2EuMore potent https://amzn.to/3J9YMghVitamin A: https://amzn.to/3EiXb48Schedule an Appointment With Dr. Cremers: https://drcremers.com/contact-us/Call Visionary Eye Doctors: (310) 867-7907Give Our Office A Visit: One Central Plaza 11300 Rockville Pike, Suite 1202 Rockville, MD 20852

Through social media, the news, and elsewhere we encounter stories of people we say are inspirational to us because they have some sort of disability. We can't imagine how they do the things they do. No matter how many such stories we find, we still are amazed. On Unstoppable Mindset, my goal, in part, is not just to show you such stories, but to give you a chance to meet the people behind the stories, yes those amazing people. Meet Josh Basile, a C4-5 quadriplegic. He wasn't born a quadriplegic, but he grew into the role after an accident. Josh will tell you his story and how he decided to go into the law. He will tell you how his decisions after his accident shapes his life today. I hope you will not be amazed after this episode. Instead, I hope you will gain greater respect and greater value for people who are different from you. Listen and see how such persons live, love, and enjoy life just as you do. I hope that you will see that we are not as different from you as you think. Some directories do not show full show notes. For the complete transcription please visit https://michaelhingson.com/podcast About our Guest: Meet Josh Basile a C4-5 quadriplegic, power wheelchair user, disability rights advocate, and lawyer. In 2004, at the age of 18, Josh was paralyzed below the shoulders in a beach accident. Soon after he formed a 501(c)3 to empower newly injured families through SPINALpedia.com and its 21,000 paralysis-related videos. As a medical malpractice lawyer and disabilities rights advocate, Josh serves persons with disabilities both in the courtroom and through policy initiatives. As a community leader and change-maker, Josh works tirelessly to improve the quality of life the persons with disabilities and to continuously break down existing barriers to access and inclusion. To improve web accessibility and usability, Josh joined accessiBe and that accessFind initiative as the Community Relations Manager. About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes Michael Hingson 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson 01:21 And welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset, the podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And it's always fun if we get to have something unexpected happened on the show, and sometimes unexpected guests and we'll see how it goes today. We have, I think a very interesting person for you to meet today. He's someone that I met through accessibly. But he has a fascinating story to tell. And let's get right to it. So I'd like you to be Josh Bassel. Josh, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Josh Basile 01:56 Michael, it's great to be here today. Michael Hingson 01:58 Thanks for for coming. So you do why don't you start by telling us a little bit about you. Josh Basile 02:06 Alright, so my name is Josh Basile. I live outside of Washington, DC and Maryland. My life changed forever. When I was a teenager, I was 18 years old. I went on a family vacation to the beach and a wave picked me up and threw me over my boogie board and slammed me headfirst against the ocean floor. That day, I shattered my neck and became a C for fat quadriplegic. Michael Hingson 02:37 So, needless to say, you had a life changing event. What What was your reaction? How did you how did you feel? You must have experienced some fear? And lots of uncertainty? How did you how did you work through all of that. Josh Basile 02:55 So I guess we could start with the initial fear. So like, when I had my injury, I just remember hearing a loud crack. And it like reverberated throughout my entire body. And all of a sudden I couldn't move at all. And I was facedown in the water, I was unable to like scream for help, I was unable to turn my body and just kind of was just floating in the ocean. And all I could do was try to remain as calm as possible and hope that my friends would see me floating in would come out and grab me in and saved my life. And luckily they did that day. And then when it comes to fear of, of kind of transitioning into a new world of functionality and a new world of kind of dependency on in so many ways. I that was definitely a huge change. I went from a college athlete to someone that couldn't even brush his teeth anymore. And it was it was a big it was a rude awakening, but so much of it kind of for me to overcome it was about perspective and having a different mindset of, you know, there's so much with with my injury that I can't do, but I choose to not focus on that I focus on what I can do. And it's it's there's lots of little things that allow me to really always proactively continue to move forward. Michael Hingson 04:31 So we talk about the things that you can't do, I guess, you know, as a as a person who happens to be blind, you know, I hear all the time about how you can't do this or you can't do that. How do you how do you react to that? Being in a chair and being a quadriplegic? And I guess what I'm getting at I'll tell you kind of my thoughts is, are are that is it really so much you can't do or you have to do in a different way. way. Josh Basile 05:02 So for me, it's like before my injury, I did things, 1 million ways. after my injury, I get to do it 1 million new ways. And it's different. But different, could still be fun different could still be meaningful. It's just you know, the way I brush my teeth now is not with my hands. I do it through through the hands of a caregiver. I, you know, doing a different sport. Before an injury, I skied on my two feet. Now I ski in a sled with somebody behind me Holding, holding it. And you know, I've flying down the mountain. So there's a million different ways that I get to do new things. And it's just a matter of having the right creativity. And at the end of the day, it's really having a willingness to try to put yourself out there, and to experience all that life has to offer. Michael Hingson 05:54 The founder of the National Federation of the Blind Jacobus timber once wrote an article and Tim Burke was a constitutional law scholar, he wrote an article called a preference for equality. And he talked about equality, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. And what what he said is that a lot of people say, well, it's only equal, if I give you a pencil and paper and you write, you know, that's, that's equal, we're giving you the same things we give everyone else. And what he said was that equality doesn't mean that the equality means that you have the same opportunity, but you may use different techniques, different tools, but that you at least are allowed to, or you are given the opportunity to use those tools to be able to accomplish the same task. Josh Basile 06:39 Or yeah, with equality without it's, we all have our own unique experiences on how we do things, how we experience life. So you know, having an equal opportunity to experience and to participate, and to have different options to do it the way that you would like to do it, or the way that you can do it. But being being a part of this world, you know, so much of the internet is about, you know, people talk about accessibility. But you know, for me, it's almost more important for it to be about usability and usable. And it's like, there's different things of that nature that you can kind of talk about kind of equal access and equal this, but it's, for me, it's like, is it going to be functional, to my life to my unique world, and there's so many different types of disabilities, so many different types of functionalities. And it's, it's important that it works for the person that is trying to be a part of it. Michael Hingson 07:35 Which is really the whole point that equality isn't about doing something exactly the same way with the same stuff. Equality is being able to accomplish the same task. I thought it was interesting years ago, was it Jack Nicklaus, who had a hip replacement or someone and needed to use a golf cart. And so there were some issues about him going on a golf courses with a golf cart when everyone else had to walk. And they had to work through that. Josh Basile 08:04 It was, it was definitely it was a golfer in the, in the like the, around the 2000s, that that ended up having to do that. And it went to the Supreme Court, and they found that he was able to use the golf cart, and that it was a reasonable accommodation. Michael Hingson 08:20 Well, for blind people who wanted to take the LSAT and and go into law, there were a lot of challenges because the the testing programs required that you took the test in a certain way. And eventually at least they provided some equipment, but it wasn't necessarily the equipment that blind people use. And so it really put people taking the test at a disadvantage. And again, it went to the Supreme Court, ironically, lawyers of all people who ought to really be upholding the rights of all people. But it had to go to the Supreme Court before a final ruling came down that said, Well, of course, people can use the screen readers and the technologies that they are used to to take the test. Josh Basile 09:06 Now and that's, you know, that's always kind of kind of boggled my mind. How even within the LSAT, how there's so many different discriminatory factors that have that have existed over the years. When I graduated college, I decided to go to law school and I took the LSAT myself. And during that time, everybody that had a disability that had an accommodation there so anybody with accommodation, they created a flag on the test. And basically it's it told every single place that you applied every school that you applied, that this person has a disability. And only after while I was in law school, there was a class action lawsuit that I believe originated in California, that ended up like saying that you can't do that you can't that is completely against Ada, you can add, you can add, be able to disclose that a person has a disability during the application process. And there there was, you know, a class action settlement across the United States. But it's, it's, it's kind of crazy how that stuff is, is there and continues to happen? Michael Hingson 10:21 Well before your accident when you were 18. And of course, you're you're not that old now you're at least 25. Right? So before your I know, before, you're 36. So before you were, you were put in a chair, you you had your accident, what were your career goals. Josh Basile 10:41 before my injury, I was a business major and art minor in college. And for me, I've always loved the stock market. So I wanted to become an investment banker. And that was the route that I was trying to pursue, or I'd like a dream internship that summer, my injury and I would have loved to continue to work for my boss that summer as a as a career afterwards. But I'm definitely my injury, I flip things upside down, it changed life forever. And I quickly learned that my voice and my mind were my best assets. Physically, I was limited in what I can do. But mentally, and through my, through my advocacy skills, I could do great things. And that's when I decided to go back to community college, and I went to undergrad, and then graduated magna cum laude through law school, and it was a it was definitely a long adventure with the patient I decided to go through. But in the end, it was totally worthwhile and is open so many doors to an opportunities within the employment world. And I've very much enjoyed working for since 2013. Michael Hingson 12:04 So why did you decide to switch and go from investment banking into law. Josh Basile 12:11 So basically, just to become as strong of an advocate as I could possibly be, you know, with undergrad, I was a communication major. And so my voice getting really strong and my ability to influence others and change the world around me. And then I just knew law school would give me a unique mindset and approach to really taking it to the next level. And, you know, law school is incredible to it teaches you kind of how to think like a lawyer. And then you have to get in the world and you actually have to kind of have a specialty to take on. And that's when I took on medical malpractice and catastrophic injuries and help families all across the country, the lawsuits and helping them navigate kind of also how to get the community supports they need for independent living when it comes to caregiving or pursuing vocation through the vocational system. There's there's so many different elements to what happens after our college Strophic injury to kind of reenter society and actually have a better quality of life. Michael Hingson 13:16 But you worked through it, you chose to not give up, you chose to move forward and do something with your life, which is of course the whole point, isn't it? Josh Basile 13:27 Absolutely, it's, um, life is too short not to, to live, love and laugh, and put yourself out there to be the best you and you know, before my injury, you know, our let's say, after manage Dre like, Yes, I have a different body, but I'm still, I'm still me. I just have, you know, a sexy power wheelchair to get me around. And I've got different technology and different caregiving supports that allow me to do things that I would have done before. But it's, it's definitely one of those things that like you just, I try to I try to let families know that within this life, like I've mentored 1000s of families through my nonprofit determined to heal. And one of the big things is, after an injury, you need to learn how to advocate for yourself, you need to learn how to become your own best advocate, because nobody's going to fight harder for you than you're going to fight for yourself in your life. So learning kind of what it is to give you the best opportunities to give you the best supports, and to be able to be that captain of the ship as you're going along this life journey. It gives you a great power in what direction you're gonna go. And it gives you the ability to you know, accept help and that accepting help is not it's not a weakness. A lot of people think of an accommodation school as a weakness. It creates an evil Been playing field just to allow you to show what you have. And being able to get support through friends, family caregivers to help you along your journey is just, it gives you extra boost along your way along your voyage is basically having crewmates instead of sailing ship of one year sailing a ship of the 10. That's a much easier voyage. Michael Hingson 15:25 The issue of accepting help is one though, where you need to be the one to decide what help and and when you need help. Which, which is always of course an issue people, a lot of our well most of the time want to help and sometimes help when you don't need help, which which can be a challenge and of itself. Josh Basile 15:47 Yeah, no, it's it's hard. A lot of a lot of persons with disabilities are very stubborn. You know, I see it a lot within the paralysis community. The difference between a quadriplegic and a paraplegic. So a quadriplegic is somebody that has immobility in all four extremities. a paraplegic, has a mobility in two extremities. And so often paraplegics, in many ways, they, they want to do everything on their on their own and show their independence, which gives them their power. With a quadriplegic, you'll see somebody is way more open to receiving help, and is accepting of it, and is willing to, like, try and train somebody to help them do different tasks, but it is, it's the different mindsets of are you it doesn't really, for me, it's accepting help, doesn't matter. Or if you're paraplegic quadriplegic person without a disability, it's just a matter of opening your your arms to being able to allow others to be a part of your life and contribute. So many people just want to help because they want to, they want to give it's it's a good feeling to give. And it's, it's, it's it's kind of a different dynamic, depending on the personality of who you're talking to. Michael Hingson 17:06 Sure. And about. And then the reality is that, that we all should be more interested in receiving help when we need it. And we should also be willing to give help, and offer help. And I tell people all the time, look, don't assume I need help, and don't operate under the assumption that I want help crossing the street. There's never anything wrong with asking if I want some help, but accept the answer. If I say no, because there are also a lot of times that I don't want help. For example, when I used to travel around the world trade center, and looked like I was lost, I probably was and the reason I was lost was because I worked to getting lost. So I could figure out more about how to travel around the center and and learn things and there would be times I would ask questions. But it was important to learn the complex, because I wasn't going to use the same visual cues that you would use. Josh Basile 18:13 I love that about persons with disabilities that we we are faced with so many barriers on a daily basis. But that allows us to be kind of really fine to problem solvers. Like we're really able to like figure out, you know how to overcome challenges, how to get to where we need to go, how to complete puzzles, how to complete? Well, you, you name it, and it it's like the practice that we do every single day gives us a special kind of ability beyond many other people. And it's I think this is one of our greatest contributions that we can give to the workforce in general is that, you know, you you give us a problem within a company, we're going to be able to approach it probably a lot differently than than other employees that you have, just because we we do it every day we put our 10,000 hours in to become experts, expert problem solvers. Michael Hingson 19:14 I know that you have seen this and seen some of the statistics, both before and in your time at accessiBe and we'll talk about that. But one of the things that we both get to talk about on a regular basis is the fact that when companies decide to make themselves inclusive, whether it be in their advertising, whether it be in their hiring practices and so on, but when they decide to make themselves inclusive to persons with disabilities, the reality is we also tend to be more loyal because we know one it's harder to find a job when we're facing a 65 plus percent unemployment rate among employable people with With Disabilities, and to that, it's harder to, to deal with various aspects of a company, if they don't make it more inclusive. So when we find companies and organizations that are inclusive, we tend to be more loyal to them. Josh Basile 20:16 Absolutely, it's data statistics, you name it, studies have been done, and conducted that have proven that the disability community is, is either the most, most brand loyal community, in the world in the United States. And it's because, you know, we're not always taking care of correctly, but when we are, it's, we don't forget it. And we advocate and, and share with friends family, we'd let others in the community know that this company, this organization, gets it, they're doing it, right, they're welcoming, and those good experiences. We don't forget it. And we look forward to those moments when somebody gets it. It's, it's kind of, I think, it's amazing that we're having so many more of these kinds of conversations around inclusion and disability, and that companies are starting to get that this, this needs to be a part of their business, it needs to be a part of their their business culture. And the more that we do that, I think we're gonna see some major changes coming up in the years to come. But obviously, we're still a long way away. But it's, I've heard more about this in the last, you know, two years than I did in the last, you know, 17 years of my injury. Michael Hingson 21:42 Well, it's true, and we need to be more part of the conversation, how do we get more people to include us in the conversation? It's all about education, but how do we get people to accept us and include us as, as a class in the conversation, the conversation of life, if you will. Josh Basile 22:06 For me, it's always about having a seat at the table. Too often, persons with disabilities are an afterthought, because they never had a seat at the table from the beginning. And they they were just then recognized later on when enough noise was made that there that somebody was like, Alright, now let's, let's deal with the disability that are of our business or society of this law, have, you name it, it's just no, we don't have enough representation, and all aspects of society, in my opinion, whether it's within, within the legislature, within the business world within education, transportation, we need to have way more persons with disabilities being employed, being employed in positions of leadership, being able to have people get it from the top down, that that Disability Matters. And that disabilities is something that it's it's a way of approaching a system in place of availing inclusion and providing accessibility providing options for all abilities. And it's it for me, it's like it's a win win. If when when organizations get it, when legislators get it, and they incorporated there, they're actually just making it stronger. Everything they put forward ends up becoming stronger, because it it ends up working for more and more people and giving more options. It's it's, you know, people look at curb cuts. And you know, that's that's one of those things that it's made for persons with disabilities. But guess what, everybody that uses it is benefiting from it. And they don't want to live without it. So being able to put together more kind of inclusive pieces of the puzzle to society. For me, it's just a win win, but we need to have more people at the table to be able to make sure it gets done. Yeah. Michael Hingson 24:16 So you went off to law school. Where did you go? Josh Basile 24:21 David Clark School of Law at the DC Public Interest Law School. Michael Hingson 24:26 Cool. So you, you went you graduated, then what did you do? Josh Basile 24:32 So I immediately went to work. So I was in law school, I, I interned for a federal judge. I then worked at a law firm, and then worked at the US Attorney's office worked on the Health Committee under under Senator Harkin, and then I ended up getting an internship at my current employer. And after finishing law school, I just I continued working with him. And it's been there since 2013. And I've loved every moment of it. Michael Hingson 25:09 It's fun, especially when you can blaze a trail. Josh Basile 25:14 It's it's, you know, the thing with lawyers is all lawyers are for the most part nerds. And they're just very smart. They love, they love, either studying reading or are, you know, are willing to go the extra mile like, anybody that ends up doing law school and taking the bar exam. That's a lot of work. It's a lot of time, a lot of energy spent away from friends, family, it's a commitment. Um, so most of the turn attorneys are nerds. But as a medical malpractice attorney, and catastrophic injury attorney with a significant disability, I love it. Because I get to be an empathetic nerd, I get a B, you know, there for families in ways that most attorneys can't I get what they're going through, I understand what they need in place to have a better quality of life, I can communicate with them. And it's most cases that we take can take anywhere from two to four years to either settle or to go through the legal process of getting a judgment through the courts. And even then, sometimes there's delays because it gets appealed. It's a it's a long process. But as an attorney, with a catastrophic injury myself, it's, I really enjoy it. Because I get to connect with with my families more than anything, Michael Hingson 26:32 you must be in a position to help make a more powerful case. Because if you said you have a catastrophic injury yourself, you've been through it. Josh Basile 26:40 Yeah, no, absolutely. There's, it resonates. I think with the jury, I think it resonates with the judge, and also resonates with the defense, that's on the other side, when you're doing depositions, or you're doing negotiations, and they're like, this person doesn't need this. And then you're like, you know what they actually do, but I, I can have some lived experiences beyond the experts that we bring to the table that are saying what we are arguing, but, you know, so much of when it comes to bringing cases, it comes down to the Battle of experts, and both sides end up getting somebody that argues one angle, and then it's up to the jury to decide what what is fact and what is fiction. Michael Hingson 27:26 So you're working for a private firm today? Josh Basile 27:29 Yes, it's a plaintiffs firm. So we only represent families that have been that have been injured, Michael Hingson 27:35 that have been injured, right? Well, so in addition to doing that kind of work, you've you've obviously gotten some involvement in doing things like web accessibility, and so on, how did all that come about? Josh Basile 27:52 So I'm passionate about breaking down barriers for persons with disabilities, whether it's in the employment, world transportation, independent living, and when I learned that less than 2% of the internet meets Accessibility Guidelines. I wanted to do something about it. And I knew that I could proactively kind of know, I always try to first figure out what is the problem? And what are the best options going forward to come up with a solution, or at least, to be able to have a better approach at at addressing the problem, both in the short term and long term, and so much with the internet is about scalability. You know, we're talking about hundreds of millions of websites that remain inaccessible. And when I learned about acccessiBe, I did my research, I had different friends in the disability community, do give me their sense of it, and to test different product products that were out there. And what I learned was accessiBe was the real deal. And that this could be a great way of changing the world of the internet, and COVID COVID was happening at the time, which, for me, the internet became that much more important to be able to be to allow persons with disabilities to have access to the products, information and services that as we well know, the internet provides and, you know, having access to that improves quality of life and opportunity and I wanted to do something about it. Michael Hingson 29:32 How did you discover accessiBe? Josh Basile 29:35 So A childhood friend of mine ended up moving over to Israel and joined accessiBe's team in their HR department, and she ended up connecting me with with the founder, the founders of SSP, and I spoke with them. And next thing I know we're collaborating they wanted they wanted more persons with disabilities to have a seat at the table with an organization, so that they can learn and they can improve, and they can become a better business not only running the company, but also for serving the community that they are on a mission to change lives. And, you know, I, you know, hearing that and seeing that, and being a part of that, since February, I've just, I've been wowed by by them as a company, and SSB is just doing all the right things. And it's, um, I know, there's, it's been a long way since February. And but it's always been a forward moving progression. And, and as an advocate, I love I love moving forward, Michael Hingson 30:45 what are some of the specific problems that you face in accessing the internet. Josh Basile 30:50 So it's basically navigating a page is one thing, you know, being able to go from start to finish and checking out fully. Now I've been on a website where I'm using my Dragon Naturally Speaking, and I can't jump to a different forum, to be able to fill out my contact information, my address, or do a drop down to be able to see what's there. I guess, you know, if I'm only able to access specific parts of a website, I'm missing out on all the other parts that everybody else is afforded. without a disability, I use my mouse controller. To control my mouse, I also use an onscreen keyboard to navigate a webpage, I use voice dictation to type. And I also use a screen reader for reading. So I have multiple different technologies that I'm using at once. And if a website has accessiBe built in access, accessibility built into it, or usability built into it, I'm able to navigate it so much better and gain from it the way that it was meant to be gained, that people put information on the website for a purpose. And you know, it's just a matter of are you going to be able to access it or only be able to see or experience half of what the websites truly trying to show. Michael Hingson 32:15 I know for me, using a screen reader exclusively to hear what's on a web page. When we deal with images where there are no descriptions, or we deal with an element that requires you to use a mouse or it expects you to use a mouse. So as you scroll through items, the screen refreshes, which means you really can't get to see what all the options are without the screen refreshing and it takes you forever to go through it over just two examples of some of the access that we we face that I face and other people who are blind face and you face some of those things, things as well. And the reality is, and I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it, we live in such a marvelous technological world, where it is so easy to make all of this stuff fully inclusive. And it's in some ways becoming less inclusive, because we make it more visual, or we want to make it more automatic to diffuse that little mouse to scroll around the screen. And we forget that that doesn't make the website inclusive for everyone. Josh Basile 33:24 It doesn't. And you know, we make internet work for everyone has not been easy over the past 25 years really of the internet, being you know, more mainstream, but it's, you know, keep working towards it. And the thing I love about accessiBe is that there's many different profiles for many different disabilities and abilities, and then being able to use those profiles, but then also to be able to have customized options below that to even further make it accessible or usable or making it work on how you personally want to navigate a website. And so many people with disabilities, you know, have multiple disabilities. So like being able to, like have usability options for for that is you know, through accessories AI powered solution. It's like there's nothing else out there that exists that I've been able to use that I have a physical disability. I've ADA HD and I have a reading disability. So incorporating all three of those things sometimes makes websites a little difficult to navigate. But then when you have the AI powered solution, I'm then able to customize with the mobility profile and be able to customize with other options with ADHD as well. I guess it's incredible what you can do when you give people choice and power and how they want to navigate. Tell. Michael Hingson 34:58 Tell me about the ADHD profile. Josh Basile 35:01 So the ADHD profile, basically, you know, allows you to have a better, I'd say, it blocks out kind of the top and bottom of the of, of your eye is so that it's kind of blurred out a little bit, but it's darkened. But then as a focus area where you can go up and down the screen, so that your eyes focus on one particular area, without having distractions from all over the page. So many websites, they try to grab you here and there, and everywhere. And you're with ADHD, the littlest thing can like, can pull your attention away and distract it. Yeah, I always like to, you know, there's a great Disney Pixar movie called up, and there's a dog and every time the dog sees a squirrel, because squirrel, and like I that's too often on a website, if I see something, my mind goes away, and then it's hard to get my mind back to where it needs to go to get the most out of the website or what my task at hand. Michael Hingson 36:05 So does it prevent pop ups, for example? Josh Basile 36:09 Well, I'm not I'm not sure. I don't think it prevents Papa fits in. Right? I gotta, Michael Hingson 36:17 it may be the way that the visual stuff. Yeah, Josh Basile 36:21 yeah, it creates kind of that, that perfect kind of line of sight of where to focus on and direct. I know that epilepsy profile for the pop ups in progress that is blinking or as motion. Michael Hingson 36:37 But but the point is that, that there are a number of different profiles, and it's, it doesn't necessarily deal with all disabilities within the artificial intelligence system. For example, there's not a lot for persons who are deaf or hard of hearing. But the other aspects of accessiBe do address that dealing with the ability to have video captioning, and so on. So there are other things that accessiBe now does and we both have talked about the fact that it's a growth issue that accessiBe has grown to recognize and put in place the procedures to deal with that. I Josh Basile 37:19 love that they have, accessiBe now as remediation services for PDFs, they have remediation for, for video captioning, it's like, all of these different pieces of the puzzle is what it takes to make a website accessible. And they're also doing manual remediation. And going in and making necessary changes either from the beginning or later after like it's, there's there's so many different ways of making a website accessible. Obviously, the best way is to always do it right from the beginning. Yeah, and you know, I even say even having a website that was perfectly done from the beginning, but then adding the AI, the AI powered solution thing gives you that much more power and choice, and how a person with a disability or multiple disabilities can experience a website. And it's, it feels very welcoming when it's when it's done like that. Michael Hingson 38:13 So what do you do for accessiBe Since you're busy with a, with a job in a law firm, and so on, but you do work with SSP? What do you do? Josh Basile 38:22 I'm the community relations manager. So I bring in persons with disabilities, disability focused organizations, to be able to work with us on our different projects and initiatives. One of my favorites is called Access Find where we are, right now if you go to Google, and you type in a website, you have no idea if that website that comes out of the 10 websites do the search are going to be accessible, more likely than not, it's based just on statistics of 2% of Internet being accessible, it's not going to be and that's a frustrating experience of not having confidence in knowing whether or not you're going to be able to navigate that website fully. So what access find is going to do, it's only going to house accessible websites through its database. So you go you go there and you're going to be able to know that all of the search results are accessible. And we're building it out. We have over 40 family member organizations that we're working with, to make sure that we do right with and all of these organizations have a seat at the table as we're building out the beta website. So it's gonna be very exciting. But come 20 22x is fine is going to go Live for the world. And it's just I just can't wait for it to to be a resource and a service for persons with disabilities. Michael Hingson 39:49 How do you think that the world will react to access find? Josh Basile 39:53 I think I think it's gonna be one of those things that everything around web accessibility, we We need to provide education for I think X is fine in its own right, is an incredible educational tool acknowledges the fact that so much of it is inaccessible. And that, you know, the Googles of the world had an opportunity to do something to make it easier. And they never took, they never took the opportunity or they they made a business decision that, you know, it is not worth addressing this. And the fact that exists, we took the time spent hundreds of 1000s of dollars to make this this in existence, I think it's just says a lot about accessiBe as a company, that they care that they want to do something for actively about making the internet more accessible. And they wanted to create a product, by the name of with the community for the community. And that I think that's just, I think I think it's just going to be a powerful message to share with the disability community and nonprofits that access find is, is going to be a great tool for them. Michael Hingson 41:06 It will be the first time that it will truly be possible for people to expect when they're searching for something, they're searching for a website, or a company or an organization, it'll be the first time where people with disabilities can truly expect that they will be searching among companies that are inclusive or are accessible. What happens if we find one that isn't an access Find, what happens with that? Josh Basile 41:37 So are you saying a website is put on the X spine and it's not accessible, Michael Hingson 41:42 or becomes inaccessible. Josh Basile 41:45 So that's just an opportunity right there for for the community, to be able to voice and to be able to share with that website, you know, that, you know, something happened over time, that yes, maybe your website was accessible at a moment. But then over time, it became inaccessible to the point where it needs to be addressed, you know, that the the thing with with web accessibility is not something that it's like you do it once and it's forever, like web accessibility is, is is a moving a growing evolving project, where you, you, you have to, you have to have things in place to address it consistently. Because websites are consistently changing, you know, with accessories, AI powered solution, every 24 hours, it does a scan of a website, to be able to, to fix different holes and, and things that are that might be broken or that change or that are new to it and to address those things. So it's when when a website does come up on accessory that was once accessible, but then becomes inaccessible, it's an opportunity for the community to speak up. And then we can reach out to that company or that website, and let them know that they need to address it, and give them an opportunity to address it, which is we're on this journey together. We want to make the internet more accessible. That's kind of how it has to be done. Michael Hingson 43:17 How will websites be able to become a part of access find. Josh Basile 43:22 So that's still we're still figuring out all the details on that. But they're going to have to pass a particular audit test, or multiple audit tests. And those audit tests, be able to basically use the WCAG guidelines to find out if you meet accessibility guidelines. And then once that once that is so it's accessiBe or access find is 1% not going to just be accessiBe the websites, it's going to be all any and all websites that meet accessibility guidelines will be welcomed. And we're excited to have as many websites as possible. You know, if we can have all 2% of websites on the internet that meet accessibility guidelines, a part of access find that for me, that'd be a dream come true. And obviously, we want to get that 2% a lot higher in the years to come. Michael Hingson 44:20 I think he just made a very important point that needs to be emphasized, again, that this is not just to be a platform for websites that use accessiBe. There are a variety of audit systems that one can use to see how accessible their website is accessiBe has one called ACE and if you go to ace.accessibe.com you can test your website you can plug your website into that and you can you can put the web address in and you can get an audit report and have it even emailed to you it's free. There are other places Do it as well, they all do basically the same thing. They look for the accessibility features that come under the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, what the World Wide Web Consortium suggests are the things that need to be an inaccessible website. But some do a better job of explaining what they discover than others, I've seen a couple that aren't very easy to read, whereas ace tends to be pretty easy to read, but they are looking for the same thing. It isn't biased in that sense. But at the same time, the websites are dynamic. And that was kind of what I was asking about that if, if a website goes up into access find, because it is found to be accessible. But then later, someone goes and tries to use that website, because they found it through access find. And it isn't accessible anymore. I gather, you're saying there's going to be a way that that they can notify someone of the lack of access, and it can be addressed. Josh Basile 46:09 There. There's absolutely there's a report feature. And we're still we're still testing out all those things within the the beta surveys we're doing with our founding members. But yes, they're they're 100% is a component of reporting when a website goes from accessible to inaccessible, or a lot of times with a count when it comes to accessibility. A person reports an accessibility issue, but it ends up becoming an issue on their end with their technology, or things of that nature, which is always interesting to be able to provide learning opportunities, both through the website or to the user of the website. Michael Hingson 46:48 You Yeah, I have I've found instances where people say that accessiBe or other systems that make websites accessible aren't working, when in reality, it isn't the the accessibility aspect of it. It's the way they're using it this user error or user problems or user something. And and it is important to recognize that there terror are ways for the system to break down at both ends. If someone wants to explore getting their website into access find, how do they do that? Josh Basile 47:25 So on access find, even if you go there, right now, there's a way to list your website, there's an absent Michael Hingson 47:33 what's the web address for access find, Josh Basile 47:35 accessfind.com Michael Hingson 47:37 Okay, Josh Basile 47:38 and then you go there. And there's, you can kind of learn more about what access finds about, there's a promotional video. But then there's also a way to join as a founding member, but also add to list your website. So we're actually getting those every every single day, Sara charge for that. Zero charge, it's completely free. Access find, is not going to be like Google or Yahoo, there'll be zero advertisements, it's just all about making an easier search and more confidence search for users with disabilities to access accessible and usable websites. Michael Hingson 48:18 It's going to be pretty exciting. And I'm really anxious to see it go live and to see people start to use it. And, and it'll be a lot of fun. And it's been it's been a long time coming. And so it will be great to have a way to do web searches and have pretty good confidence that you're looking at websites that are accessible. You and I know full? Well. I'm sure a lot of our listeners don't how much of a challenge it is to go deal with websites, especially when you find in accessibility. I had a survey that was sent to me by our health provider two weeks ago and and I've seen this happen many times. So the survey they wanted to know my perceptions of things regarding Kaiser at least I assume that's what the survey wanted. And I the reason I say it's, I assume is because it started out by saying Did you feel positive about Kaiser, I think it was or negative. And I clicked positive. And then it took me to a web page. So that was in the email. So it took me to a webpage. And the first thing on the webpage was I had to accept the terms and conditions or click on some something and that something wasn't a link. It was in no way labeled. There was no way to click on it with my keyboard or any of the features that I had. And I couldn't go any further with the survey. And I see that all the time. It's frustrating. Yeah, and and it is so unnecessary because it would be so easy to address. And I mentioned it because I did send an email back to the survey people. And I've heard nothing. That's why I keep asking about how we get more into the conversation, because the reality is that to make websites usable for all of us is not that complicated to do today. Josh Basile 50:26 It isn't, but it's one of those things, we, we have to do educational awareness campaigns, not only for persons with disabilities, but for small businesses to let them know that this is an option. It's an it's a, it's a it's an option that can allow them to, to get and better serve all all of their visitors. And it's that excites me. I know, I know, where we we've got a lot to do around education around awareness. And I mean, this conversation today is one of those things that, you know, it's got to start somewhere. Michael Hingson 51:06 It does in and it has to continue, and I think it will, it's a matter of continuing the conversation and becoming visible. And and we will continue to do that. Look, do you have any? I'm sorry. Josh Basile 51:21 I very much look forward to doing it with you, Michael? Michael Hingson 51:25 Well, I as well, I think we're we are making a difference. And we're going to continue to do that. Do you have a way of people want to reach out to you and ask you questions about access find or anything like that, that they can do that? Josh Basile 51:38 Yeah, the you can email me at Josh. Dot basil. That's B as in boy, A S as in Sam, I l e@gmail.com. That's my email address. Feel free to message me. Michael Hingson 51:57 Great. Well, I want to thank you again for being here. And I want you to come back as as often as you want. When you have things you want to talk about, let me know. Because that's the only way we're going to have the conversation continue. And we're going to make it happen. accessiBe has this goal still of making the internet fully accessible by 2025. That's a pretty ambitious goal, but we have a few years yet to go. So if we do it by the end of 2025, we got four years in a month. So let's see what we can do. But we have to start somewhere, as you said, Josh Basile 52:37 Mike, what's always a pleasure. Everything that you do and the hard work you do and it's just it's It's fun being on this journey with you. Michael Hingson 52:48 And it's got to be fun. Otherwise, why do it? You know, life's an adventure. And so it is it's a lot of fun, Josh Basile 52:55 fun and meaningful is what it's all about. Michael Hingson 52:57 Indeed. Absolutely. Well, Josh, thank you for being with us on unstoppable mindset. And, again, for anyone listening, we hope that you'll go to the website MichaelHingson.com/podcast M I C H A E L H I N G S O N .com/podcast. You can subscribe to the podcast. You can do it through any podcast hosts that you normally go to. And wherever you found this podcast, we hope that you will at least give us a five star rating. And reach out to us and let us know if there's anything that you're interested in. In hearing or knowing more about or any comments that you have about our podcast today. You can reach out to me, Michael H I M I C H A E L H I at accessiBe A C C E S S I B E.com. I will respond to emails. So we'd love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your thoughts. If you know anyone who should be a guest on our show, please let us know. Let them know have them reach out. And we hope that you'll join us in future episodes of unstoppable mindset Michael Hingson 54:16 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

In Episode 51 we tackle what is pretty much the only story in hockey right now: COVID. We also talk about will they / won't they with regards to the Olympics, the Coyotes vagabond status, Ovechkin doing ridiculous things, Dallas goalies, Kyle Beach / Chicago reaching a settlement, and we yell a lot about forcing teachers to scramble for money during intermission of a hockey game.

Joe and Matt discuss the recent rise in COVID cases in the NBA and what the next best steps are moving forward. They reminisce about Steph's record breaking night in the Garden and debate whether it will ever be broken. They then discuss a little bit of injury news including the puzzling nagging Zion injury as well as the recent development on Klay Thompson's return. They chat about some front office news with Danny Ainge taking a job in Utah and the story on Rick Carlisle's tenure in Dallas. They finish the episode off with a standings update in the Eastern and Western Conference. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/in-the-paint-nba/support

Tom is joined by Brent Poland. They discuss the return of Covid - Covid strikes back. Omicron, Gavin Williamson, masks, remote learning. All the vintage covid dark days headlines are reviewed as well as a look forward to what will happen in January.

Meet Gal Bareket, Chief Solutions Officer of accessiBe. Gal, an Israeli-born technology leader tells his story of growing up in Israel including serving in the Israeli military. He talks about his experiences forming and growing his companies before joining accessiBe. Gal will discuss his views about internet access and his experiences helping to shape the vision and products of the assistive technology industry's largest internet remediation company, accessiBe. His stories will fascinate and enthrall you and inspire you to do better in whatever task you undertake. Some directories do not show full show notes. For the complete transcription please visit https://michaelhingson.com/podcast About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes Michael Hingson 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast we're inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson 01:22 Hi, I'm Michael Hanson, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And today unexpected in a lot of ways, partly because, up until about a week and a half ago, I didn't expect that I would have our guest on today. But here he is. I would like you all to meet gala bracket gal is in Israel and gal works for accessibility. I've told you all a little bit about accessibility in the past, accessibility is a company that has created a variety of products and systems to make websites more usable, so that we can achieve our ultimate goal of making the internet fully accessible by 2025. And one of the people who's going to help with that is gal who is our guest today. God Welcome to unstoppable mindset. Gal Bareket 02:19 Hi Michael, thank you for having me. This is such a pleasure having the country having to have the continued conversations the ongoing conversation with you. Michael Hingson 02:27 Well, and and we don't get to talk nearly enough. So here's a chance to do some of that. So you are in Israel. So right now it's probably something like about 636 or 637 in the evening. Gal Bareket 02:40 Also, daylight saving brought us one hour back. Right now we actually 5:30pm It's great still have today. Yes. Yes. Michael Hingson 02:48 So the daylight saving just in for you. Gal Bareket 02:50 Just just editor just started with. We just added we are it's getting dark earlier. Michael Hingson 02:56 Yeah. And we do that next Sunday. So we'll we'll catch back up to you. I don't know why we can't have a standard in the world, but it's the way it is. Well, so So tell me a little bit about you. So you're from Israel. Gal Bareket 03:15 So I'm from Israel, I had the privilege of joining system B in early May this year, mid May late this year. Previous to excessive A i A little bit perhaps about my background in the military, which provides a little bit of both spice and interest to the role. I served in the Israeli elite intelligence unit called at 200 were just a few great things that the military experience that is so far removed sometimes we have so far removed for someone who didn't get to go through it but essentially through college however, you have the you are being put in stressful situations and I had the privilege in the age of 19 to already have 200 to 400 people under my supervision and in addition you get to work in the army on on trying to focus on on solution rather than the problem after and that's something that helps to cultivate and help cultivate the myself throughout the years. Which then led is a little bit a little bit further about my personal background. I graduate from Tel Aviv University with a law major had had to work in a hand the work in Israeli parliament our sides Knesset MK MP MK members, parliament members in the Israeli Knesset and helping them legislate laws it's so it's something that in Israel also it's important to share that from the edge D getting a degree standpoint. You know how in America you do we go to preschool at pre law and then a law school in Israel when you finish with the military service and you go to university You automatically immediately choose a profession, if you will. And hence the law major that did allowed me to immediately pursue the degree itself, and bend practice law. How ever prior prior to practicing law is that in my last year of school, I was working on two companies at the time. And one of those two of those companies actually launched but I had to make a decision because I couldn't operate both at the same time, I chose the company that accessibly equity hired, it was a company in those fatality in the industry, we were working on trying to help bridge the communication gap, how funny between guests and hoteliers, or between guests and staff and between people, essentially to because communication is almost key to everything. And I'm sure we're going to talk about it a little bit over over our chat and it but in addition, the bridging the communication gap during my time the Israeli parliament, you could see that if the minister doesn't necessarily or the the Knesset member the necessarily came or a parliament member with a judicial background, the ability to legislate, the law becomes cumbersome, and hence you need a mediator to digest what you but what what the request was was was created and then able to push it forward. Now, this is a little bit so just to summarize a little bit about me some army time, great experience some to leave university, a growth towards working within touching the bills themselves understanding the cumbersome and hence why I get one of the many reasons why I'm attracted to accessibly because there's so little tweaks that can be done in order to make so many people live so much better. Michael Hingson 06:54 I'm curious, you, you raise something that just sort of prompts a question. serving in the military, that's something that everyone in Israel does. Right? When they're right, when they're growing up. What that is something that is really foreign to us over here in the United States, and that not everyone is required to do that. What do you think the real value of serving three years in the military gave you? Or why do you what do you think about having had to do that? Gal Bareket 07:26 I think that when a when a teen a get to the age of 1817 and starts a process, a process in which there is an entity called the army that started working on, on identifying various aspects about your personality, IQ and capabilities, is when it's today thinking about in hindsight, it's crazy. Back then, it seemed, it seemed it seemed normal, it seems like I'm being categorized in order to go to a place and trying to optimize me as resources or try to optimize the skill set that I bring to the table and see how it can help the the entire entity to grow and within those 17 between 17 to 18 as you go through the process, getting getting into the military getting into the military service, which is you know, like applying to college like sending out those envelopes. When you get there is but it but in an opposite direction you are being then targeted by the army in various units you can serve in whether it's combat or non combat alike, within the Army, then you get you have you get to have a when in contradictory to college, there is much more discipline, much more discipline in terms not necessarily the discipline that you would feel or think about when I say the word discipline but more order. organization skills you have for Israel is a country that knowns for it's a formality, the Army is a place where formalities finally being get structured. There is different entities that are in charge of different things in the army and then you get to understand how to when you get out of the army how to better succeed within the commercial world because you already understand some of the help within the intelligence unit in particular how to communicate when you are being trained how to how to be in charge of large portion of people at the same time and mitigate and mitigate and mitigate issues you are you're becoming a mini CEO of me as small medium enterprise company. It when you're between the ages of 18 to 22. And when you get released are like whoa, but what just happened? Did I just do that I learned all those things, and I can't share it with anyone in the world. Michael Hingson 10:05 But But you learned a lot of responsibility. You learned how to do those, which I'm assuming that you feel were very much a life building experience for you and one that you value 100% There's something you wouldn't change for the world. Gal Bareket 10:24 That is true. That is true. I can't it's like, it's like, you know, they say, I don't I don't regret things I did. I regret things I didn't do. Things that I did. This was part of the many actions that were supposed to bring me to the person that I am today. So I try to not regret my or my actions that I already took. Michael Hingson 10:46 What do you regret that you didn't do? Gal Bareket 10:49 Oh, i very i bet i I just dug myself my own hole. Michael Hingson 10:57 Just just popped out. It was it's a it's a great line. And I think you're absolutely right, we, you know, I once went to a meeting. And the people, the it was actually a church. And the pastor said, you know, the problem with how we view mistakes is that when you make a mistake, if you legitimately make a mistake, you've made the mistake. Now the question is, what are you going to learn from it, but you can't argue or spend your whole life worrying about the mistake you made? It's how you progress from it. And it's the same sort of thing. We learn, we make choices, and we do things. And once we've done them, they are they're part of us. But the real question is, what do we what do we learn? Or issue think back? After doing something? What is it that I didn't do that I could have done? And that's something that we're going to talk about? In the book, I mentioned that we're beginning to write a new book. And that's one of the issues that we're going to talk about is that, that the reality is it's it's not the choices so much we make, it's what do we learn from them, so that we can make better choices? Gal Bareket 12:08 Right, right. Look at the intersection of in hindsight and evaluate whether what how we how we actually impracticality took the whatever action that we were supposed to take and understand whether it was right or wrong, or how could we have got become became better every intersection probably yield an opportunity to self observation. Michael Hingson 12:32 It should. And one of the things that I experienced is a lot of people don't take that time later, to analyze what they do and what they did. And as I put it, I'm my own worst critic. I like to record speeches that I give, and I am these podcasts I listened to because I learned from them. And I recognize that I am, and should be harder on myself than anyone else could possibly be. If I learned to do self analysis, and I think that's an important part of life that all of us can, can learn to develop. Because when we analyze ourselves, if we look each day back at what we did, and what we didn't do, that we could have done or should have done, that, is what helps us move forward and enhances or can we help us move forward and enhance our lives? Gal Bareket 13:27 Right when we're we were consciously making decisions when we were unconscious of the decisions that were taking place, and we just let ourselves be part of I agree mycologists My only advice to you is just be constructive is yourself. If you're your worst critic, give yourself just make sure that you are not taking yourself to too much down before so you'll be able to actually get up. Michael Hingson 13:49 Yeah, I think that's the that's the point is that when you're your own worst critic, it's the point that you will see things maybe sooner than other people will or they don't want to tell you, but if you see it, the question is how you then deal with it. And you're absolutely right. This being your own worst critic isn't to tear yourself down, but it's to give you the opportunity to say how do I handle that different next time? Right. Thanks. And then remember next time, that's the other part of the of the challenge and the problem. It sounds like with with your experiences and so on having been in the military and gone through that life experience for several years. You've been put in a situation where you get to analyze a lot Gal Bareket 14:40 that's true. I almost everywhere every place I go every every interaction that I that I encounter I make sure to I need to make sure to be alert and keen and understanding for the for the for for something bad to happen. Proactive listening is is something that that the army is also not that the army was promoting initially when I was there but leaving the Army in being in keep endorsing proactive listening. And that's I think, where the most progress that can be done on an individual basis because then when actual conversations and and decision making are actually being taken under as conscious as they shouldn't, then you can actually move forward, learn processes, and look at things from a retrospective standpoint, create proper hindsight, and progress. Michael Hingson 15:37 And that's all we can ask ourselves to do. That's true, that makes perfect sense. Were you ever in combat in the military? Or were you removed from that somewhat. Gal Bareket 15:50 So thankfully, in the elite Intelligence Unit, what I did, I was I needed to facilitate the teams that went, I was an officer of operations. And part of my role was to make sure that the people that are going to various locations that don't necessarily as places that they want to be in or places that the entity the people that are there wants them to be there. I needed to create to make sure that everyone will literally to make sure that there will be safety for everyone. And constant communication, the hospitality and housing would work great. And never people would come we will come back, come back come back safely on both ends. Yeah, that's that's that's mainly was my own version of his offer, operational person I didn't I wasn't the first to come. But was that but I needed to be in charge of those who went there? Michael Hingson 16:46 Yeah. Well, that's a pretty awesome responsibility and an interesting skill to learn, which I'm assuming was very helpful you to you, once you got out of the military, because you learn how to deal with people and you learn to understand what people think and how they think someone. Gal Bareket 17:05 However, in the in their in life after the army, things are a little bit more relaxed. Yes. The quick decisions are important, but they are not necessarily some of them are life changing, or some of them are. But they are they can be taking, they can be taken with some thought behind them. And it's, it's not necessary. Yeah. Michael Hingson 17:35 I hear what you're saying. It's, it's different. Do you think a lot of people forget a lot of the lessons that they learn in the military? Given the way you describe it? Yeah. Gal Bareket 17:45 I think that I think that's life is is dissected into chapters, and each chapter that you go through for, you know, youth, growing up youth, then in Israel, it's the military time that is in the background, but you yourself are growing from 82 to 2223, depends how many years you decided to participate in the army. And there's all those intersection are those the parts are, are our parts where you grow from, grow, have evaluate whether this is the person, you know, am I and I don't like to speak about myself in the third day, but I'm his girl from the military is the same guy that is the same person that he is today? Or is there just a bunch of skill set and learnings and morals that I can take with me as as part of who I am, and then learn how to utilize them with with the person who grew immensely since that time? In the past. So yeah, this life life, life is interesting. This way, it throws you into chapters that you don't necessarily know when it starts when it's when it starts when it ends, because sometimes inertia just comes in. And so being conscious is continuing our previous anecdotes is really important. I know Michael Hingson 19:17 for me, having gone through the university and gotten a master's degree in physics, one of the things that I tell people is I don't use the physics directly today. But the disciplines the mindset, the thought process that I learned being very heavily involved in science and in the philosophy of science and having had the opportunity to study how people in science think and someone has helped immensely. So physics is something that I think was extremely valuable to me, although I don't use it because my life took some other turns. The skills and the disciplines I learned from it, are extremely valuable, and I wouldn't trade them for the world. Gal Bareket 20:01 Would you have? If you could have gone back? Would you have taken the route of pursuing physics? Or are you like, just the more on the morals from it? Michael Hingson 20:11 No, I would still, I would still have pursued physics, I learned a lot that I don't think I could have learned without being involved with it. And, again, when I was taking physics, I didn't know that my life would change in some of the ways that it did. Excuse me, but, but it did change. And so it's, it's all about growth. And it's all about learning how to accept that growth, and accept the choices that you make, I believe that I can trace a lot of my life back to choices that I made and how one choice led to another choice. And I think that's important for us to be able to do. And I don't say that in a negative way. But rather, the one choice led to another choice that led to another choice. And along the way, I learned from each one, which also caused me to help make the choices that I made. Gal Bareket 21:11 I understand and agree in 1,000%. Michael Hingson 21:15 So you, you went through the military, and then you came out. And I'm fascinated by the fact that then when you went through University and graduated with a law degree, and then started working in the legislature, I came at the legislature from a different standpoint, in that although I was in the sciences and someone, I also joined the National Federation of the Blind, a consumer organization, the largest civil rights organization for blind people. And we're very much about dealing with getting appropriate legislation to deal with the civil rights of blind people. And so I was very heavily involved for many years, in various ways, working with Congress and state legislatures. And so to understand the the law process, and some of the political negotiations, it's a fascinating world, unfortunately, I think that it's changed a lot, at least in this country in the last 40 years or so it's become much more divisive and much more political than it really should be. And you almost get to the point where you wonder if people are really looking out for the country anymore. Gal Bareket 22:30 Yeah, I think it's a sickness of every country. I think it's, it's, it's a sickness of, of either the parliamentarian system, or the presidential system, the ones that you that America has the presidential system with the two houses, and which automatically creates a lot of stagnation. The fact that there are two entities is that are part of the process of making a decision in Israel, the situation is the same in a parliamentarian system, but different because there are many parties that are supposed to form a coalition. And it happens to be that the minority then controls there has an ad portion and proportional power over the coalition and and then not the Your vote is not necessarily provide us the request of what it is that you are voting for. Michael Hingson 23:27 It's it's interesting, I think you raise a good point. But it also goes back to mindset, if everyone is really looking at it from a mindset of, yeah, we have different beliefs, we have different points of view about what needs to be done. But we want to do what is right for the benefit of our country. That's a lot different than I want to do what's right as far as I'm concerned, so I can win and gain more power. And that's where I think we've all diverged and deviated that there's too much I've got to be the winner. I've got to be the one to get the power. And the other side shouldn't have any power because they're just totally wrong. As opposed to recognizing that there's value on both sides. Gal Bareket 24:19 Yeah, yeah. That the political sphere is a sphere that provides a lot of desperation and inconvenience and others and things are so simple to just make them as you are saying they should be but you know, life flips. I find myself and I think I shared with you in our previous conversations, focusing on the things that I can change focus things on the thing, whether it within myself or within my nearby surroundings. I found myself getting as being less involved in an In politics with time speaking of the different entity and or even removing myself from almost complete completely, in order to focus on my, like my current life and accessibly, the the efforts that I'm doing to help the company is doing and letting me be part of it of making the this cliche as it sounds, making the world a better place focusing on those, yeah, focusing, which is, you know, the stuff that are in front of me, or even a year ahead or two years ahead, are within my capacity and bandwidth to influence. Michael Hingson 25:42 Yeah, you can worry all day about everything that goes on in the world. Or you can, excuse me, or you can learn to focus on the things that you have control over and not worry about the rest. And all too often, we focus on way too much stuff. And we have no effect or control over any of it. If we would learn more to focus we would drive ourselves less crazy. That's so you So you went but you you came out of college and you said you use had been involved in starting two companies, what were the two companies Gal Bareket 26:21 so one company was in the fashion industry. And what we were doing we used Ay ay ay an image, or AI image recognition and machine learning. We used we were helping it was several years ago now it's now it's a little bit more trending all over. But people that got into fashion blog websites, were looking at different items and not necessarily knew where to shop them or even look at their friends on social media and or various pictures and couldn't know what items are they're wearing the like to see where it was purchased from what we build an engine that is able to determine through image recognition, where is the picture is taken from or where is that what is what item is being is the person wearing, and where and the list of potential stores that is able to then facilitate that it was heavy tech. And that went on that that's that's here. Michael Hingson 27:26 Now did you didn't write code No, Gal Bareket 27:30 I you know, I was helping. So, it was the beginning of the road I was up to form formed a team creating terrible infrastructure and processes and then I learned that it would be less it was less prominent in Israel to start with. So, we we were we applied to an acceleration program in Boston, whoever the same time we in May in in the different company and they ended up pursuing for the next five and a half years until excessively in the in that company, that the time that I had to make a decision with this company was was moving to Boston the other company got accepted to an accelerator program in Berlin. So both received a global recognition and now it was a time to choose the the one have had a very tough choice great team on both ends, it's just that fashion is never was my expertise. So hence it was in a very easy check move towards hospitality service industry, AI bridging the communication gap things that are a little bit more in my day felt more in my day to day and hence I invested the my commercial life to a degree into that. Michael Hingson 28:55 So what was the hospitality company about Gal Bareket 29:00 so when West one guest comes to hotel today, they would they go to their rooms and ever you know be let's say before COVID Before digitalization went on a rapid scale up probably before COVID When the hotels when guests were finished their booking there was no way for the hotelier to properly start the communication with the guests and allowing the guests to get a seamless experience as the book get they can request the stuff they want pre arrival. They can continue the converse they have they noted in when they get to their room, they don't necessarily choose the landline they can use their own mobile device through their own medium of choice whether it be WhatsApp WeChat, line Facebook, etc. And then as they leave the the the hotel they can decide whether they want or not to continue or not continue the conversation. So we used we replaced the old landlines. During the room to the convenience of not without the need to download any app on your mobile device, you are able to then communicate with the front desk and request whatever it is that you need or maintenance or housekeeping and everything from the palm of your hands without the need to download anything. Michael Hingson 30:20 So you did that for a period of time? Is that company still working today? Is it still doing the things and setting up the procedures that you you started Gal Bareket 30:34 and know the company, the company had a great time and, and was working in various places globally until COVID hit when COVID COVID created the big impact for the hospitality industry. And however we were able to find our way through it and we're able to find the right integrator the concrete the right go to market strategies and create the right partnerships. One of these partnerships and ongoing conversations led to the conversations with the with decades share and gal that though that conversations then emerged into into into more than just the conversation in which the guys told us why wouldn't you guys want joining us, help us help us utilize AI bridging that we also need to bridge the communication gap to different degree. And we need we need a team that that scaled in the past in various aspects and is and is able to help us scale further from the from what the team was in amazingly able to accomplish with accessibility. Michael Hingson 31:49 So though dealing with Internet access is a lot different than dealing with the hospitality industry. What what piqued your interest about what Sher gal and deco were doing with accessibility. Gal Bareket 32:05 So many things, I'll start with the fact that the vision draws your attention, because it's almost possible to do and when something is impossible to do, it's worthwhile to, to get the hang of it and to try to try and do it by ourselves. The meeting with the with both with the sheer girl and vism the motivation and inspiration that came out of the meeting was a new that this is a company we would like to be part of and then perhaps Lastly, but most importantly, my wife's a mother was a social worker in New York City in which she works directly one on one with people with disabilities. She during you know we had throughout our time together we there were endless Commodore, there were ongoing conversations and the great I got to hear secondhand not firsthand challenges, barriers of people and to have the opportunity to have the opportunity back event to have a conversation about how to have the humble part in entering an entity that is working to do good was a no brainer. It that we are providing our ability to provide service, of course, but being but but moving away from one industry to the web accessibility industry, allowing us to also see how hotels are not Mrs. are not necessarily within compliance are Elia allowing us to see the web accessibility is the is a bigger picture, as the word focusing on digitizing itself. And as accessibility is taking a big stage within the big role on the stage of trying to have working on remediate on making the web accessible on the web. The World Wide Web is such a big word. We're making the world wide web accessible. So yeah, so you ask what what brings you to the company being part of an organism that that's what organism organization that's what it strive for, to take this www are making it accessible, and learning that as I get to accessibly how big the problem is, and that's something that I wasn't aware of. I was aware that it's there. I was aware that some people are facing it. I wasn't aware that it's growing. And I wasn't aware that it's it's how much it affects the day to day life. And as I started to training at accessibly and I was giving the opportunity of speaking with a people with a visually impaired all those technicalities of Have bed bow challenges that people are facing? I knew that this is its this is where I am supposed to be, this is what I need to serve. And this is this is how this is a company, I want to utilize my skill set, you know, to help grow? Michael Hingson 35:18 Well, and the fact is that, as you stated, what we call the accessibility gap is growing, because of the number of websites that are being created every minute, every day, and how small the number of those websites actually intentionally do what's necessary to bring access in. And I think one of the important concepts to remember about accessibility is you can have all the standards in the world, you can have all of the the requirements that define what access means. But access ultimately is about how usable is the website, right? And that's where it really comes. It's all about, can people use the website? And do the standards make the website as usable as it should be? Or is there more to it, and there is more to it. The standards are a great guideline, which is why we have today what we call the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines. But the fact is that it's all about usability. And I think that's been a very strong growth area for accessibility, because access to be when I joined in January was very much involved in talking about access from the standpoint of adhering to the guidelines, I think that there was an intent to want to make website usable, but focus more on the guidelines and the World Wide Web Consortium standards and so on. And is moved to understand that there's a lot more to it than that to make the website world very usable. Gal Bareket 37:12 I think accessibly is because it was always providing services, they just understood it. Now it's the time to provide the services from scale, at scale. And also, from an educational standpoint, access to be understood, as people were looking out for looking at, at it as a company as a thought leader in the industry as a company who were able to work on and assist many websites. As as we all know, it also received a bunch of heat from either the community or for members or whether whether it's legit or not legit, everything is legitimate desire legitimatize in my book, so it's all fine. The accessible understood that it needs to take needs to do several things it needs to provide a provide education or what we call free education or learning. And you mentioned the word access one of the tools that is coming out as part of the company's culture called Access campus, which its goal is to route and incept within the beginning of developers and marketeers mindset how the digital assets of a website should be accessible. There are there is a there you mentioned usability before Miko usability testing is a term that is taken from the user experience world from the tech industry from the development sphere. We now are trying to claim an access to B and the claim to fame that usability as part of the user experience of checking a website needs to kind of the QA of your website needs to be be done with people with what product or service we like to call user testing. People with disabilities that are using system as you mentioned in the beginning of the call like Jaws, or that are allowing them to view website and actually see if though if the digital assets are actually working or actually providing them with access successively decided that it's that it's more it's going to work in a more holistic fashion is going to work on an educational spectrum. And that's part of the founders vision to make to help people learn more about the field. Well, people understand not just from a compliance standpoint, but how to create products and tools and services that are from the get go are accessible. In addition for everyone who needs to get up to par access will be provided for access to be now so the professional solutions department The Department where which I am part of the goal is to allow remediation of the rest of the digital assets that are part of your website and or part of your organization. If you are an enterprise who is who has files that are problematic for the for your workers that are supposed to read a remediated file, an accessible file, then perhaps you need that service. And I would ask you, Michael, when, when you tackle a PDF, when you tackle a file, what are due? Are there any challenges that are in front of you check in immediate file for having having you having a person unstoppable challenge, taking a child taking, taking on a file? Michael Hingson 40:50 Well, sure, which is, of course, the whole point of now what we're talking about with access flow. But But yes, clearly, it depends on the PDF is like with everything, there's always the answer, it depends. There are many PDF documents that are not readable by a blind person with a screen reader. There's more to it than what Adobe does with its own internal optical character recognition to recognize the the information in the file. And sometimes that can be made to talk and give me the information that I want. And sometimes it can't. Likewise, with any website, sometimes, it verbalizes well, and many times, it doesn't verbalize extremely well, which means that I might be able to use the website, but it will take a lot of work to be able to use the website, or the website was constructed in a way that really makes it very usable for me without a lot of effort. Someone put it very well, when they once said that what blind people learn how to do is to muddle through and, and break their way through all of the barriers that exist on websites. So we can we can make them work. But a lot of times, it's very difficult to make them work or we have to spend so much time doing it that you wonder after a while if it's worth it. And that's of course, what excessive B is, is all about an excessive B, I think, excuse me excessively as someone recently said in a meeting I attended that excessive be in other companies like it, but I'm specifically focused on excessive be excessively has to customers. And it's something that excessively I think has learned over the past many months, that there are the customers who actually buy the service, that is the website owners and the website. Developers. And so it's the business community. But the other customer that accessibe B has, which is just as much and probably even more important for the company to consider is the end user. Because the end user is the the person or people who actually have to use the product that excessive B provides or products that excessive B provides. Right in excessively has has grown a great deal. And recognized that that second customer is extremely important in a way it does pay the bills, because the customers who use that site that uses accessibility and find it helpful are going to talk about it. And the community is pretty close knit. So the reality is it's important to to really focus on the the end user world as well and accessible has really started to do that which I think is incredibly good. Gal Bareket 44:14 Oh, I agree. I agree help during bridging the gap with your end users, which they are the actual service recipient of the work that you're trying to accomplish. And getting their feedback is priceless, is priceless. And can can be a great tool for for progress for change. And you can see I think you can see it with the growth of this solution with the current growth with the with the current organic growth. And my emphasis on organic on this dissolution department because you get to understand why people come to accessory. I'll give you an example. There's a there is a product that is VPAT is about Voluntary Product Accessibility Template, that template is something that companies are now understand that they need to obtain in order because the companies that are exploring whether they would like to do business with them wants to know if they are on they are taking steps to become accessible. So, that the market which is it is fascinating because the market is doing the right formations to allow a to allow having the discourse of accessibility all around. And the service when when it when people come for excessively, right now, with an organic growth growth, to get the VPAT service, it allows us to understand that they that organizations right now are are taking an active role in trying to make sure that they are fixing and adapting and removing and removing all of the barriers for people with disabilities. So, they were allowed to enjoy surfing the web properly and kindly and comfortably, which is most important. So some so I repaired manual audit, media or mediation, follow mediation, these are these are these are names of just aspects of the worldwide web or the digital assets that exist to be understood that it that it would do whatever it takes a 360 effort to make sure that its community will have a way not just not just to get into the website, but also use it conveniently and being able to actually you know, scroll between everything read the materials and have have have an equilibrium or have Bring, bring everyone to the same level. So we can all enjoy similar content. Michael Hingson 47:01 What is your role at accessibility? What is your job? Gal Bareket 47:05 So my role as chief solutions officer, I run the Department of taking chief solutions officer and we have solutions and services under our umbrella. Some of the reason why we added this solution into the component is because accessories working on providing every service to their businesses in a seamless, seamless and convenient fashion. Like it did with the AI overlay interface. The the convenience allows businesses to first to rapidly adapt technology and and being willing to make a change for the better good. So one of the one of the elements of those solution in the solution part is where we automate getting a person from a website directly to our dashboard, allowing to facilitate the entire work and offload in a seamless and automated way backed by accessories AI power engine and provide a service back to the client now the service aspect comes into play where with our accessibility experts is this team is a team of trained individuals developers that are doing the manual labor and have in touch and making sure to go to dot the tee to cross the t's and dot the eye around every single part of the website that nothing will get the NO FLOW will remain untouched. So in comparison perhaps to previously where our emphasis was on the on the AI engine itself and on the on the widget while getting slowly requests for the other remediation services. Now we are continuing putting our effort the company continue putting its effort as you know, Miko on on the AI interface but simultaneously, it opened a full bridge to allow every service every accessibility service that is related to the World Wide Web to arrive in our into our door in our footsteps and allowing us to be able to remediate and fix and resolve the issue whether it's just to bring up to compliance but in most part in my department, it's to make sure that the user will get a friendly experience when they get into the website. Michael Hingson 49:43 And so I get the impression from what you're saying that could involve the AI powered overlay. But it also could, could come about from other services that excessive B is or will be providing Gal Bareket 49:58 100% and person that it should go over it. Now when I say person, there's two people that are that we offer as a company, we offer our own, actually the expert team that we trained in house Cree with our own syllabus and our and our own materials, and made them and brought them up to par with looking at isup and other organization to bring them perhaps even further down their proficiency route. So there's that sweet expert who goes through the work themselves that in our part, and are integral part of the service. In addition, there is an addition there's also the technological effort that is being happening around this scene, continuing making a robust system, that its AI capabilities will be able to do the majority of the job in order to flag the difficulties to the person A, that is testing it. Now, that is the first person the second thing that the second option of people that can test your website is a product or a service that we called user testing. User testing is essentially bringing in people with disabilities with their assistive technology devices, which Michael perhaps you want to share what is what is even assistive technology for some because I am saying the word because I love the words, because I learned it, you are living it firsthand? Michael Hingson 51:33 Well, I think it's exactly what what it implies it's technologies that assist in making it possible for us to accomplish tasks. So in the case of the web, for blind people, it could be a screen reader or it could be access to a Braille display. But it is it is technology that allows us to interact with a computer to get the information that others obtain by looking at a screen. So the assistive technology. So the assistive technology is my, my lovely. Alexa decides to talk to me. So the assistive technology assists in helping to accomplish and perform tasks that we otherwise wouldn't be able to perform, because they're visual. And that is like reading a monitor. So even the Amazon Alexa can in some ways be assistive technology. But the the whole idea is that the technology helps us interact with our environment to accomplish the same tasks that you perform. Gal Bareket 52:52 So that's exactly it. So our end users, that's exactly what they're doing, they're using their tools, where we'd very to be a screen reader, whether it will be just scrolling through the keyboard by itself and see that the website is navigable and allowing the company at the end to see whether the website is actually user friendly, where it's where with all this is a technology to leads you to share with the world not just from the compliance standpoint, not just from a legal standpoint peep I am opening my store for people with disabilities and everybody are willing and we are inclusive and you know, we're stopping no one in the door and everybody are welcome to enter. Michael Hingson 53:36 So from a business standpoint, who and what companies are really the best opportunities for accessibility to help make the website more the website world more accessible. Gal Bareket 53:51 So here we are talking about all types of companies, from small to big, from small medium mom and pop store, to a big giants such as even Adobe or or enterprises, whether public or private companies, governmental organizations, educational organizations can also be benefit tremendously from working with us the excessively what it did with those manual services, automated solution AI backed components and having additional offerings to bring to the industry. It able to open up a full array of opportunities that are that can come from various angles, and they're coming today we're seeing we're seeing group from groups of hotels that are reaching out to us and then a public company in In public company in the US, to a flood of public companies in Israel, we seeing various entities that are interested in understanding how can they now be better, and provide better service, whether it's on the worldwide web or even internal, within their own organizations to to, to, to get better in their hiring processes, to perform better in their internal training for employee adaptation, as many aspects as you will, as you will aware, to those services, and think that these are all being taken in under my department within that umbrella. Michael Hingson 55:45 So there are companies that specialize in making websites more usable, accessible, or whatever, they have manual programmers that, that do that. And they bet a lot of expertise in it. Why accessibility over those or other companies like it Gal Bareket 56:05 says A B is a company that is ready for scale. And is and that's something that is most important, how many website Michael, are currently on? resolved? Michael Hingson 56:22 Well, I think the statistics that I think that we have found is over 98%. Gal Bareket 56:28 So even more and say, 90%, of how many 100,000 100 million? Michael Hingson 56:36 I would say we're talking in the billions at this point. Gal Bareket 56:41 So it's very simple. How many? Michael Hingson 56:47 A? Well, since we know since we know, for example, from our own studies that there are over 380 websites created every minute in the United States. And out of those, we're saying that roughly 2% are accessible. That's basically eight websites out of 390 every minute, Gal Bareket 57:09 right? So I'm looking at the numbers, as I'm talking with you right now, I do want to make a mistake in the US does 103 33 million websites are in the millions, right. And there is other countries with other numbers. But the fact that we are, we are not even meeting the surface, it's it's where we need to aim next. And there's so much work to be done. So accessible, his ability to scale is not just a word for itself, it allows it it allows the company to serve many entities at the same time. Scaling, it's not this is not just tech scaling is operation, it means that if we need tomorrow to hire X amount of people, we have the processes in place, the infrastructure in place and the capacity to do so it means that the company as a whole is working, to grow and having a with the bandwidth to gain all everything in it. In addition, and it's something that our visionary CEO, and is able to create, he constantly create ways to simplify from a technological standpoint, the entire process of have of fixing a website or building a website. And that allows us as a company to have, whether it's internal proprietary tools to provide the job quicker. So I turn around or turnovers are much quicker than other than other companies. Because we are we are building internal tools to help us get to where we want to be. And, and you know what, this is a problem, a big problem, the more companies that are entering the domain, that are trying to make the world a better place, we all win. So instead of comparing between the companies, we are in a joint effort to make sure that the more and more companies would enroll together, that this 100 and that the 2% would be 98%. And then we can fight over the 2% together. Michael Hingson 59:29 Yes, and and the reality is that none of the companies that are involved in this whole process of making websites usable are or should be the enemy of consumers. And I know you mentioned before, there's been a fair amount of heat that has been brought to bear on excessive B to I think, a greater degree than maybe some of the other companies but the heat It has been there. And there's probably been some justification. But there's also been a lot of misunderstanding. And I think that, and I've said it a couple of times, I think that what's most important is that we, as a community of persons with disabilities acknowledge the transformations that are taking place, excessively is not the company, both in messaging and an action that it was 10 months ago, it is different today. It is doing a lot more just doing different things. And I think that's extremely important for, for people to recognize the very fact that people like you are here, you mentioned, by the way that we are as a company, and I say we because I am the chief vision officer for accessibility. As listeners know, you mentioned that we look for people who can help with usability testing, and helping us to make the website more accessible. How can people explore doing that? Where would they go? Who would they contact? Or what would that process be? Do you know? Gal Bareket 1:01:17 So again, parts of our CEOs vision is to and and our, and our, and our CEO, our chief marketing officer and our CRO is to be able to support the community. And the way that we currently understand the community gets supported is through the various umbrella organizations such as the NFB that you mentioned before and allowing and then working in collaboration with these organizations that are not necessarily in it because they did not I didn't see that they were providing it but organization that provide the tools that facilitate the onboarding and recruitment of these type of individuals that some have said that they disobey some of the individuals we are bringing into we are opening roles within the the US market within a the new the New York office for people for people with disabilities over a two we'll be able to have to work with it to work with people disabilities closely to allows us to have not just Sing Sing Sing saying the word inclusion, but also living living it firsthand. So what they can do is they can go to our website, and enter and reach out through various ways through our through our emails to the to the solution department. And we would love to have a conversation with with them with each with each individual, either direct them to the right local organization in their place, we can work with the umbrella organization or works directly with with them. Michael Hingson 1:03:04 And I think that's important to to note that that there are ways that people can reach out so people can go to www dot accessibile. Calm, excessive B is spelled ACC e ss i b e.com. And as listeners of this podcast, no they can also reach out to me if they would like Michael M i ch AE L H AI at accessible calm. And I'm glad to help steer people to the right place or answer any other questions that that people have on the podcast. I think we're getting close to our time but is there any last thing that you would like to say or any point you'd like to make? Gal Bareket 1:03:48 I enjoyed this conversation with you Michael immensely. I think that I would have are totally finished with accessibly is growing and changing as a company just maybe echoing the last thing you mentioned. In you know, in ways that I haven't seen any other company grow and I sit on I sit on various flow advisory roles or board roles in different companies. There is there is a sense of fulfillment waking up in the morning and coming to the company there is ongoing communication that is day by day becoming better and better with between the various departments are working as a right organism to provide service for the industry. There is an immense care for the community. It's what people are waking up for in the morning and are trying to see whether the community was happy today was dissatisfied too then how could the community feel better and feel? And there are main efforts that are being done to take care of that on day two? The basis, the company is also taking into consideration the business aspect and then working on providing additional services, additional solutions, providing additional automation enhancing and improving all the processes or older processes that can now become better and are now better. And we are open to whoever wishes to come in receives type of each one of those services to come to us to see how seamless how short it is than the regular and what there are expected to, and how we are keep evolving and growing as a company, for ever for for for both our end users and our customers, which is wonderful to see is wonderful to see. And be part of Michael Hingson 1:05:52 the way I would also say that if any of our listeners, if you are a person with a website, and you want to see how accessible your website is, go to www dot accessable COMM And there you will see a link to something called ACE AC e which is the accessibility audit tool that you can run, plug in the name of your website. And you can get an audit that will show you how accessible your website is today, based on the guidelines and standards that exist in the world. And it will show you the things that you need to improve upon. So we'll give you a good idea. It's totally free. And if you want to work with accessibility, then the contact information is there to do that. To explore working with accessibility and letting accessibility help you make your website more usable. And for consumers. You can go and check any website as well with ace so we do invite you to do that as well. Well, Gal I really appreciate you being here. And we didn't talk about the fact that golf stands for wave like the wave in the ocean. You you said that? Typically Israeli names have have meanings other than to being just names or Gal Bareket 1:07:16 Abraham Hebrew names Hebrew days, right. Right. Michael Hingson 1:07:20 Now if I talk to enough people, I'll learn some Hebrew that way I guess. Gal Bareket 1:07:25 For sure. Michael Hingson 1:07:27 Well, I want to thank you again for being here with us. Go vericut. And definitely we will have to chat some more and, and compare some more stories. But thank you for being here on the unstoppable mindset. And I hope everyone will tune in next week. And of course, if you liked the show, please give us a five star review with your podcast host of choice or wherever you listen to podcasts. So thank you all for listening, and we'll see you next time Michael Hingson 1:08:02 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Following a short vacation, we are back to announce college graduations, medical school acceptances and that we missed you all dearly. We open the episode by catching you up on our recent rendezvous and then move to those pesky UFO's (24:16) ultimately tossing some shade at NDT (41:03). We catch you up on the American Oliver Twist story of the Florida orphans who went to the mattresses with local law enforcement (47:04) and close the hour with Ransomeware (53:11) and Infrastructure (57:00). The 2nd hour is all Covid: Covid lotteries (1:03:13) and show us where the Fauci emails touched you (1:21:41). We wrap up with some normal movie banter. We are stoked to be back and, as always, many thanks for the support everyone!

A Covid extravaganza! Shots, origins and more partisan infighting so that the culpable can fail up. And a smattering of little Timmy Tebow. 00:41 Covid Shot 13:07 Little Timmy Tebow 17:43 Moar Covid

Russo and LaPanta break down the #mnwild's COVID-19 outbreak, how it happened and what's coming down the pike. They talk Mikko Koivu's retirement, the Wild's soon-to-be thin lineup, and how Bill Guerin proceeds from here. They talk #cbj drama and Hextall-Burkie dynamic duo in Pittsburgh. Thanks to Kowalski's (https://www.kowalskis.com/,) Minnesota Propane (https://propane.com/,) Aquarius Home Services (https://aquariushomeservices.com/,) Profile By Sanford (https://www.ProfilePlan.com,) Bosch Law Firm (https://www.WorkCompExperts.com) & State Farm's Tony Hoaglund (https://www.champlininsurance.com)

Mother Miriam Live - December 11, 2020 Mother tackles the issues of the Catholic perspective on: Forgetting your sins during confession Sunday obligation while traveling Kneeling and the spread of COVID COVID lockdowns and leaving your zone for Mass Adding to and subtracting from the Scripture      

President Donald Trump is making his final sprints to get more votes while complaining about the media's coverage on Covid-19. He did so during his rally Tuesday night in Wisconsin, a state with record hospitalizations. Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers warned of an impending crisis saying in part, "There is no way to sugarcoat it...there is an imminent risk to you and your family." Former President Barack Obama criticized Trump on his handling of the pandemic. While campaigning for Democratic Presidential Nominee Joe Biden in Florida, Obama slammed him for his response to Covid-19. He also faulted him for turning the White House into a "hot zone." Joe Biden struck a confident tone in Georgia on Tuesday. Georgia is a state that democrats have not won since 1992. He delivered a message of unity during his campagin rally: " I know we can heal and unite this nation." Trump is trying to connect with women voters. During his rally Tuesday, he told them he will get their husbands back to work. First Lady Melania Trump, is also trying to reach out to women. She held her first solo campaign event in Pennsylvania, where she described how Trump is supporting women.To learn more about how CNN protects listener privacy, visit cnn.com/privacy

Heather Rule sat down with Nadine Babu to talk about Rashod Bateman's departure & the likelihood of a Gophers season and how this pandemic is affecting all sports. (The Vendetta by Stefan Kartenberg (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/JeffSpeed68/58628 Ft: Apoxode)