Podcasts about so daniel

Daniel 4–6 Daniel 4–6 (Listen) Nebuchadnezzar Praises God 4 1 King Nebuchadnezzar to all peoples, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth: Peace be multiplied to you! 2 It has seemed good to me to show the signs and wonders that the Most High God has done for me. 3   How great are his signs,    how mighty his wonders!  His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,    and his dominion endures from generation to generation. Nebuchadnezzar's Second Dream 4 2 I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at ease in my house and prospering in my palace. 5 I saw a dream that made me afraid. As I lay in bed the fancies and the visions of my head alarmed me. 6 So I made a decree that all the wise men of Babylon should be brought before me, that they might make known to me the interpretation of the dream. 7 Then the magicians, the enchanters, the Chaldeans, and the astrologers came in, and I told them the dream, but they could not make known to me its interpretation. 8 At last Daniel came in before me—he who was named Belteshazzar after the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods3—and I told him the dream, saying, 9 “O Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you and that no mystery is too difficult for you, tell me the visions of my dream that I saw and their interpretation. 10 The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. 11 The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth. 12 Its leaves were beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in it was food for all. The beasts of the field found shade under it, and the birds of the heavens lived in its branches, and all flesh was fed from it. 13 “I saw in the visions of my head as I lay in bed, and behold, a watcher, a holy one, came down from heaven. 14 He proclaimed aloud and said thus: ‘Chop down the tree and lop off its branches, strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Let the beasts flee from under it and the birds from its branches. 15 But leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze, amid the tender grass of the field. Let him be wet with the dew of heaven. Let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth. 16 Let his mind be changed from a man's, and let a beast's mind be given to him; and let seven periods of time pass over him. 17 The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men.' 18 This dream I, King Nebuchadnezzar, saw. And you, O Belteshazzar, tell me the interpretation, because all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known to me the interpretation, but you are able, for the spirit of the holy gods is in you.” Daniel Interprets the Second Dream 19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was dismayed for a while, and his thoughts alarmed him. The king answered and said, “Belteshazzar, let not the dream or the interpretation alarm you.” Belteshazzar answered and said, “My lord, may the dream be for those who hate you and its interpretation for your enemies! 20 The tree you saw, which grew and became strong, so that its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth, 21 whose leaves were beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which beasts of the field found shade, and in whose branches the birds of the heavens lived—22 it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong. Your greatness has grown and reaches to heaven, and your dominion to the ends of the earth. 23 And because the king saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, ‘Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze, in the tender grass of the field, and let him be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven periods of time pass over him,' 24 this is the interpretation, O king: It is a decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king, 25 that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will. 26 And as it was commanded to leave the stump of the roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be confirmed for you from the time that you know that Heaven rules. 27 Therefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable to you: break off your sins by practicing righteousness, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the oppressed, that there may perhaps be a lengthening of your prosperity.” Nebuchadnezzar's Humiliation 28 All this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar. 29 At the end of twelve months he was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon, 30 and the king answered and said, “Is not this great Babylon, which I have built by my mighty power as a royal residence and for the glory of my majesty?” 31 While the words were still in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, “O King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: The kingdom has departed from you, 32 and you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. And you shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will.” 33 Immediately the word was fulfilled against Nebuchadnezzar. He was driven from among men and ate grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven till his hair grew as long as eagles' feathers, and his nails were like birds' claws. Nebuchadnezzar Restored 34 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever,   for his dominion is an everlasting dominion,    and his kingdom endures from generation to generation;35   all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,    and he does according to his will among the host of heaven    and among the inhabitants of the earth;  and none can stay his hand    or say to him, “What have you done?” 36 At the same time my reason returned to me, and for the glory of my kingdom, my majesty and splendor returned to me. My counselors and my lords sought me, and I was established in my kingdom, and still more greatness was added to me. 37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, for all his works are right and his ways are just; and those who walk in pride he is able to humble. The Handwriting on the Wall 5 King Belshazzar made a great feast for a thousand of his lords and drank wine in front of the thousand. 2 Belshazzar, when he tasted the wine, commanded that the vessels of gold and of silver that Nebuchadnezzar his father4 had taken out of the temple in Jerusalem be brought, that the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines might drink from them. 3 Then they brought in the golden vessels that had been taken out of the temple, the house of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines drank from them. 4 They drank wine and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze, iron, wood, and stone. 5 Immediately the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall of the king's palace, opposite the lampstand. And the king saw the hand as it wrote. 6 Then the king's color changed, and his thoughts alarmed him; his limbs gave way, and his knees knocked together. 7 The king called loudly to bring in the enchanters, the Chaldeans, and the astrologers. The king declared5 to the wise men of Babylon, “Whoever reads this writing, and shows me its interpretation, shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around his neck and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 8 Then all the king's wise men came in, but they could not read the writing or make known to the king the interpretation. 9 Then King Belshazzar was greatly alarmed, and his color changed, and his lords were perplexed. 10 The queen,6 because of the words of the king and his lords, came into the banqueting hall, and the queen declared, “O king, live forever! Let not your thoughts alarm you or your color change. 11 There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the spirit of the holy gods.7 In the days of your father, light and understanding and wisdom like the wisdom of the gods were found in him, and King Nebuchadnezzar, your father—your father the king—made him chief of the magicians, enchanters, Chaldeans, and astrologers, 12 because an excellent spirit, knowledge, and understanding to interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve problems were found in this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar. Now let Daniel be called, and he will show the interpretation.” Daniel Interprets the Handwriting 13 Then Daniel was brought in before the king. The king answered and said to Daniel, “You are that Daniel, one of the exiles of Judah, whom the king my father brought from Judah. 14 I have heard of you that the spirit of the gods8 is in you, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom are found in you. 15 Now the wise men, the enchanters, have been brought in before me to read this writing and make known to me its interpretation, but they could not show the interpretation of the matter. 16 But I have heard that you can give interpretations and solve problems. Now if you can read the writing and make known to me its interpretation, you shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around your neck and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 17 Then Daniel answered and said before the king, “Let your gifts be for yourself, and give your rewards to another. Nevertheless, I will read the writing to the king and make known to him the interpretation. 18 O king, the Most High God gave Nebuchadnezzar your father kingship and greatness and glory and majesty. 19 And because of the greatness that he gave him, all peoples, nations, and languages trembled and feared before him. Whom he would, he killed, and whom he would, he kept alive; whom he would, he raised up, and whom he would, he humbled. 20 But when his heart was lifted up and his spirit was hardened so that he dealt proudly, he was brought down from his kingly throne, and his glory was taken from him. 21 He was driven from among the children of mankind, and his mind was made like that of a beast, and his dwelling was with the wild donkeys. He was fed grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, until he knew that the Most High God rules the kingdom of mankind and sets over it whom he will. 22 And you his son,9 Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, though you knew all this, 23 but you have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven. And the vessels of his house have been brought in before you, and you and your lords, your wives, and your concubines have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which do not see or hear or know, but the God in whose hand is your breath, and whose are all your ways, you have not honored. 24 “Then from his presence the hand was sent, and this writing was inscribed. 25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN. 26 This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered10 the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; 27 TEKEL, you have been weighed11 in the balances and found wanting; 28 PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”12 29 Then Belshazzar gave the command, and Daniel was clothed with purple, a chain of gold was put around his neck, and a proclamation was made about him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom. 30 That very night Belshazzar the Chaldean king was killed. 31 13 And Darius the Mede received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old. Daniel and the Lions' Den 6 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.” 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement14 to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.” 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared15 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Footnotes [1] 4:1 Ch 3:31 in Aramaic [2] 4:4 Ch 4:1 in Aramaic [3] 4:8 Or Spirit of the holy God; also verses 9, 18 [4] 5:2 Or predecessor; also verses 11, 13, 18 [5] 5:7 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 10 [6] 5:10 Or queen mother; twice in this verse [7] 5:11 Or Spirit of the holy God [8] 5:14 Or Spirit of God [9] 5:22 Or successor [10] 5:26 Mene sounds like the Aramaic for numbered [11] 5:27 Tekel sounds like the Aramaic for weighed [12] 5:28 Peres (the singular of Parsin) sounds like the Aramaic for divided and for Persia [13] 5:31 Ch 6:1 in Aramaic [14] 6:6 Or came thronging; also verses 11, 15 [15] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 (ESV)

July 26th, 2021 ... Title: Obedience to God ... Daniel 1:1-21 1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god. 3 Then the king instructed Ashpenaz, the master of his eunuchs, to bring some of the children of Israel and some of the king's descendants and some of the nobles, 4 young men in whom there was no blemish, but good-looking, gifted in all wisdom, possessing knowledge and quick to understand, who had ability to serve in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the language and literature of the Chaldeans. 5 And the king appointed for them a daily provision of the king's delicacies and of the wine which he drank, and three years of training for them, so that at the end of that time they might serve before the king. 6 Now from among those of the sons of Judah were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. 7 To them the chief of the eunuchs gave names: he gave Daniel the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abed-Nego. 8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's delicacies, nor with the wine which he drank; therefore he requested of the chief of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself. 9 Now God had brought Daniel into the favor and goodwill of the chief of the eunuchs. 10 And the chief of the eunuchs said to Daniel, “I fear my lord the king, who has appointed your food and drink. For why should he see your faces looking worse than the young men who are your age? Then you would endanger my head before the king.” 11 So Daniel said to the steward whom the chief of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 12 “Please test your servants for ten days, and let them give us vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then let our appearance be examined before you, and the appearance of the young men who eat the portion of the king's delicacies; and as you see fit, so deal with your servants.” 14 So he consented with them in this matter, and tested them ten days. 15 And at the end of ten days their features appeared better and fatter in flesh than all the young men who ate the portion of the king's delicacies. 16 Thus the steward took away their portion of delicacies and the wine that they were to drink, and gave them vegetables. 17 As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams. 18 Now at the end of the days, when the king had said that they should be brought in, the chief of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar. 19 Then the king interviewed them, and among them all none was found like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah; therefore they served before the king. 20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding about which the king examined them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers who were in all his realm. 21 Thus Daniel continued until the first year of King Cyrus.

Daniel 5 NLT read aloud by Simon MacFarlane. 1 Many years later King Belshazzar gave a great feast for 1,000 of his nobles, and he drank wine with them. 2 While Belshazzar was drinking the wine, he gave orders to bring in the gold and silver cups that his predecessor, Nebuchadnezzar, had taken from the Temple in Jerusalem. He wanted to drink from them with his nobles, his wives, and his concubines. 3 So they brought these gold cups taken from the Temple, the house of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his nobles, his wives, and his concubines drank from them. 4 While they drank from them they praised their idols made of gold, silver, bronze, iron, wood, and stone. 5 Suddenly, they saw the fingers of a human hand writing on the plaster wall of the king's palace, near the lampstand. The king himself saw the hand as it wrote, 6 and his face turned pale with fright. His knees knocked together in fear and his legs gave way beneath him. 7 The king shouted for the enchanters, astrologers, and fortune-tellers to be brought before him. He said to these wise men of Babylon, “Whoever can read this writing and tell me what it means will be dressed in purple robes of royal honor and will have a gold chain placed around his neck. He will become the third highest ruler in the kingdom!” 8 But when all the king's wise men had come in, none of them could read the writing or tell him what it meant. 9 So the king grew even more alarmed, and his face turned pale. His nobles, too, were shaken. 10 But when the queen mother heard what was happening, she hurried to the banquet hall. She said to Belshazzar, “Long live the king! Don't be so pale and frightened. 11 There is a man in your kingdom who has within him the spirit of the holy gods. During Nebuchadnezzar's reign, this man was found to have insight, understanding, and wisdom like that of the gods. Your predecessor, the king—your predecessor King Nebuchadnezzar—made him chief over all the magicians, enchanters, astrologers, and fortune-tellers of Babylon. 12 This man Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar, has exceptional ability and is filled with divine knowledge and understanding. He can interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve difficult problems. Call for Daniel, and he will tell you what the writing means.” 13 So Daniel was brought in before the king. The king asked him, “Are you Daniel, one of the exiles brought from Judah by my predecessor, King Nebuchadnezzar? 14 I have heard that you have the spirit of the gods within you and that you are filled with insight, understanding, and wisdom. 15 My wise men and enchanters have tried to read the words on the wall and tell me their meaning, but they cannot do it. 16 I am told that you can give interpretations and solve difficult problems. If you can read these words and tell me their meaning, you will be clothed in purple robes of royal honor, and you will have a gold chain placed around your neck. You will become the third highest ruler in the kingdom.” 17 Daniel answered the king, “Keep your gifts or give them to someone else, but I will tell you what the writing means. 18 Your Majesty, the Most High God gave sovereignty, majesty, glory, and honor to your predecessor, Nebuchadnezzar. 19 He made him so great that people of all races and nations and languages trembled before him in fear. He killed those he wanted to kill and spared those he wanted to spare. He honored those he wanted to honor and disgraced those he wanted to disgrace. [...]

Daniel 5:1-4 (NIV)“King Belshazzar gave a great banquet for a thousand of his nobles and drank wine with them. While Belshazzar was drinking his wine, he gave orders to bring in the gold and silver goblets that Nebuchadnezzar his father had taken from the temple in Jerusalem, so that the king and his nobles, his wives and his concubines might drink from them. So they brought in the gold goblets that had been taken from the temple of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his nobles, his wives and his concubines drank from them. As they drank the wine, they praised the gods of gold and silver, of bronze, iron, wood and stone.” When Living for God in an Ungodly Culture: 1. There will be events and situations of deliberate mockery and blaspheme of God.   2. God is the One responsible for defending His own Name. Daniel 5:5 (NIV)“Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote.” Daniel 5:6 (NIV)“His face turned pale and he was so frightened that his legs became weak and his knees were knocking.” Daniel 5:7-16 (NIV)“The king summoned the enchanters, astrologers and diviners. Then he said to these wise men of Babylon, ‘Whoever reads this writing and tells me what it means will be clothed in purple and have a gold chain placed around his neck, and he will be made the third highest ruler in the kingdom.’ Then all the king’s wise men came in, but they could not read the writing or tell the king what it meant. So King Belshazzar became even more terrified and his face grew more pale. His nobles were baffled. The queen, hearing the voices of the king and his nobles, came into the banquet hall. ‘May the king live forever!’ she said. ‘Don’t be alarmed! Don’t look so pale! There is a man in your kingdom who has the spirit of the holy gods in him. In the time of your father he was found to have insight and intelligence and wisdom like that of the gods. Your father, King Nebuchadnezzar, appointed him chief of the magicians, enchanters, astrologers and diviners. He did this because Daniel, whom the king called Belteshazzar, was found to have a keen mind and knowledge and understanding, and also the ability to interpret dreams, explain riddles and solve difficult problems. Call for Daniel, and he will tell you what the writing means.’ So Daniel was brought before the king, and the king said to him, ‘Are you Daniel, one of the exiles my father the king brought from Judah? I have heard that the spirit of the gods is in you and that you have insight, intelligence and outstanding wisdom. The wise men and enchanters were brought before me to read this writing and tell me what it means, but they could not explain it. Now I have heard that you are able to give interpretations and to solve difficult problems…’” 3. Your godly life will attract those in need of God.  Daniel 5:13-16 (NLT)“So Daniel was brought in before the king. The king asked him, ‘Are you Daniel? ...I have heard that you have the spirit of the gods within you and that you are filled with insight, understanding, and wisdom. My wise men and enchanters have tried to read the words on the wall and tell me their meaning, but they cannot do it. I am told that you can give interpretations and solve difficult problems. If you can read these words and tell me their meaning, you will be clothed in purple robes of royal honor, and you will have a gold chain placed around your neck. You will become the third highest ruler in the kingdom.’” Daniel 5:17 (NIV)“Then Daniel answered the king, ‘You may keep your gifts for yourself and give your rewards to someone else. Nevertheless, I will read the writing for the king and tell him what it means.’” 4. You will be faced with the temptation to sellout your character and God’s calling for an opportunity.  Galatians 1:10 (NIV)“Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.” Daniel 5:18-21 (NIV)“‘Your Majesty, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar sovereignty and greatness and glory and splendor. Because of the high position he gave him, all the nations and peoples of every language dreaded and feared him. Those the king wanted to put to death, he put to death; those he wanted to spare, he spared; those he wanted to promote, he promoted; and those he wanted to humble, he humbled. But when his heart became arrogant and hardened with pride, he was deposed from his royal throne and stripped of his glory. He was driven away from people and given the mind of an animal; he lived with the wild donkeys and ate grass like the ox; and his body was drenched with the dew of heaven, until he acknowledged that the Most High God is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and sets over them anyone he wishes.’” Daniel 5:22-23 (NIV)“‘But you, Belshazzar, his son, have not humbled yourself, though you knew all this. Instead, you have set yourself up against the Lord of heaven.’” Daniel 5:23 (NIV)“‘You had the goblets from His temple brought to you, and you and your nobles, your wives and your concubines drank wine from them. You praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or understand. But you did not honor the God who holds in his hand your life and all your ways.’” Daniel 5:24-28 (NIV)“Therefore he sent the hand that wrote the inscription. ‘This is the inscription that was written:MENE, MENE, TEKEL, PARSIN‘Here is what these words mean:Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.Peres: Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.’” Jeremiah 27:4-7 (ESV)“Give them this charge for their masters: ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: This is what you shall say to your masters: “It is I who by my great power and my outstretched arm have made the earth, with the men and animals that are on the earth, and I give it to whomever it seems right to me. Now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, my servant, and I have given him also the beasts of the field to serve him. All the nations shall serve him and his son and his grandson, until the time of his own land comes. Then many nations and great kings shall make him their slave.”’” Daniel 5:29 (NIV)“Then at Belshazzar’s command, Daniel was clothed in purple, a gold chain was placed around his neck, and he was proclaimed the third highest ruler in the kingdom.” Daniel 5:30-31 (NIV)“That very night Belshazzar, king of the Babylonians, was slain, and Darius the Mede took over the kingdom.”  5. God is the only one who holds the authority to pass final judgment, not you.  John 12:47-48 (NLT)“I will not judge those who hear me but don’t obey me, for I have come to save the world and not to judge it. But all who reject me and my message will be judged on the day of judgment by the truth I have spoken.” Luke 9:52-56 (NLT)“He sent messengers ahead to a Samaritan village to prepare for His arrival. But the people of the village did not welcome Jesus because He was on His way to Jerusalem. When James and John saw this, they said to Jesus, ‘Lord, should we call down fire from heaven to burn them up?’ But Jesus turned and rebuked them. So they went on to another village.” 

About Daniel KimDaniel Kim (He/Him) is a Senior Developer Relations Engineer at New Relic and the founder of Bit Project, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to making tech accessible to underserved communities. He wants to inspire generations of students in tech to be the best they can be through inclusive, accessible developer education. He is passionate about diversity & inclusion in tech, good food, and dad jokes.Twitter: @learnwdanielVolunteer with Bit Project: bitproject.org/volunteerLearn Serverless with Bit Project: bitproject.org/course/serverlessWatch this video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/oDdrbDXQG6wThis episode sponsored by, CBT Nuggets.Transcript:Jeremy: Hi, everyone. I'm Jeremy Daly and this is Serverless Chats. Today I'm chatting with Daniel Kim. Hey, Daniel. Thanks for joining me.Daniel: Hi, Jeremy. How's it going?Jeremy: It's going real ...Daniel: I'm glad to be here.Jeremy: Well, I'm glad that you're here. So, you are a Senior Developer Relations Engineer at New Relic, but you're also the founder of Bit Project. So, I would love it if you could tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and your background and what Bit Project is all about.Daniel: That sounds great, Jeremy. My name is Daniel. I'm a Senior Developer Relations Engineer at New Relic, which means I get to help the community and go find developers and help them become better developers. And I got into developer relations because I founded a school club and now it's a nonprofit, but it started as a school club, called Bit Project, where me and my friends gathered together to teach each other awesome web technologies. And yeah, that's how I got my start. And I am still running Bit Project as a nonprofit to help students around the world build and ship projects using awesome technologies and help them learn and become better developers.Jeremy: Right. And one of those awesome technologies is serverless. And that's what I want to talk to you about today because this is a really great program that you're running here that helps make Serverless more accessible to more people, which is what I'm all about, right? So, I absolutely love this. So, let's go back and talk a little bit about Bit Project and just get into how it got started. You mentioned it was a project you were doing with some college friends, but how did it go from that to what it is now?Daniel: Yeah. So, I started this, I think, late freshman year when I was still in school at UC Davis. I was not a computer science major, actually. I was an electrical engineering major, but as I got into technology and seeing all the possibilities of things you can build with cool tech, I was like, "I really need to get into web development because this is so awesome. I can make changes on the fly. I can see awesome things. I can build awesome things with my hands." Well, with my computer. So, yeah, I got a couple of friends together because I'm a very social person so I like to build and learn things together with my friends. So, I got a couple of them together. We rented a lecture hall and then we just taught each other everything we knew to each other. For example, I was super into Gatsby and React, so I was teaching my friends React. Other friends were super into backend development, so they were teaching me things like how to design APIs and how to connect a frontend to a backend, like really awesome things to each other.And it started like that until I decided to scale the program so I could help more and more of my fellow students. So, instead of doing four-person meetups, I would organize a workshop. And those workshops turned into sponsored workshops with funding, which meant a lot of free food, which meant more people, and it just ballooned into this awesome student organization where we always had the best food. We had free Boba, free pizza, and we would share with each other all these awesome technologies and tools that we learned how to work with using in our projects. So, that's how it started.Jeremy: Right. And then, so once you got this thing rolling, obviously you're seeing some success with it, then you get into developer relations?Daniel: Yeah, definitely. So, that's when I understood what I wanted to do with them for the rest of my life. I didn't want to be that production engineer on-call all the time. I wanted to be that engineer that helped other engineers become more successful and find the joy in programming. I love seeing when developers find that "aha moment" when they're learning something new and help them become better developers. And I found that out when I was teaching my friends how to program because I got more joy out of seeing other people succeed than me succeeding myself. So, I was like, "Developer relations is the path for me." So, that's why I directly entered developer relations right out of college, because I was like, "This is what I'm meant to do." Because one of my favorite things to do is figure out how to break down really complex ideas and concepts into more fun, easy-to-understand chunks so everyone can succeed and have a good time. That's my thing.Jeremy: No, I love that. I love that because I feel like, especially people who are maybe not traditional tech people or don't have a traditional tech background, sometimes it just takes a little bit of twisting of the presentation for them to really understand that. And I love that idea of just reaching out and trying to help more people because I'm on the total same page with you here. So, now you go and so you get into developer relations and you've got this Bit Project thing. And so is this something that you wanted to keep as a side project? What was the next evolution of that?Daniel: Yeah, definitely. So, I think Bit Project is an extension to the advocacy work I do at New Relic. Because at New Relic, my job is not to push New Relic the product. We have amazing product marketing managers and other folks who do that. My job is to make it easy for people to level up the community, like the people in the community to level up as developers and help the community. And one way I do that is through Bit Project. So, a lot of the work I do at New Relic mirrors or is parallel to the work I'm doing at Bit Project, where I help make complex ideas more accessible to developers. So, in a way, it's not more of a side project. It's like a parallel project of what I'm doing at New Relic, what I'm doing at Bit Project.Jeremy: Right. And so in terms of the things that you're teaching at Bit Project too because that's the other thing too. I think leveling up developers is one of those things where, I mean, if somebody wants to go learn HTML or CSS or one of those things, there's probably plenty of resources for them to go and do that. There's probably nine million YouTube tutorials out there, right?Daniel: Definitely.Jeremy: But for concepts like Serverless, right? And I mean even Serverless with Azure and AWS and some of these other things, these are newer things. I've actually interviewed quite a few candidates for a recent position that I'm trying to fill and not a lot of them are learning this stuff in college.Daniel: Definitely. Something that we really wanted to instill to our students was that this is not your average bootcamp or course. We're not promising any six-figure salary after our bootcamps. That's not what we're promising. What we're promising is the opportunity to learn a concept that is foreign to many developers, even seasoned developers, because it's a relatively new technology, and we teach you the tools we give you and teach you the ways to become successful. So, we won't teach you everything you need to know, but we will teach you how to find the things you need to know to become successful developers. So, we help establish a good foundation for developers to learn new things and then build things on their own.Jeremy: Right. And this is ...Daniel: That's the focus of our program.Jeremy: Yeah. And this is completely free, right?Daniel: It's completely free. We're run thanks to the generosity of our corporate sponsors. So, shout out to them. Yeah. So, it's completely free for all students. So, please go and apply if you're interested and you are a student.Jeremy: So, one of the major things that you focus on, and I know that you have different courses or different workshops that you're going through. And I know some of the other ones are a little bit earlier like the DevOps one. But you have a pretty robust serverless. I mean, that's the main thing, right? Teaching people to build serverless applications on Microsoft Azure. So, I'm curious, especially having somebody jump in from maybe a non-traditional tech background or no tech background at all, and also students of all ages, right? We're not just talking about high school or college kids here, that jumping into something like serverless, what makes serverless such a good, I guess, jumping in point for the types of candidates that you're looking for?Daniel: Yeah. This is actually a great question because I have this conversation a lot with my colleagues at New Relic because when seasoned engineers hear about serverless, they jump straight into the, "How is this scalable for my enterprise use case? How is this going to integrate with my 70,000 other microservices?" They get into those questions immediately. But if you really boil down what serverless is, it's basically running code without thinking about infrastructure. That's the crux of what serverless is. And if you think about it from that perspective and not worry about all the other technical hurdles into implementing it in scale, it becomes a lot easier to digest for students. And it becomes a really friendly medium to get started with coding a project because you just have to code a small JavaScript or Python function that you just deploy to the cloud.It just magically works. We try not to overwhelm students with all the infrastructure talk and more focus on the code that they're writing. And I was really inspired because one of my mentors for my career is Chloe Condon from Microsoft, and I remember her writing a lot of blogs around getting started with serverless. She built this fake boyfriend app with a Twilio and serverless. And I was like, "Hey, this is not that unapproachable for students to get started with serverless functions," because it was only maybe 40, 50 lines of code. It integrated multiple APIs. So, I was like, "This is the perfect medium," because it's relatively simple to understand the idea of just writing code and deploying it to a magical kingdom where the magical kingdom controls everything, you know?Jeremy: Right.Daniel: So, that's my inspiration for using serverless as a medium to teach people how the modern full-stack app works, if that makes sense.Jeremy: Yeah. No, I totally agree, and I use this quite a bit where I tell people when I was a kid when I first started programming in the late 1990s, everything was CGI bins, right? So, we were just uploading code using FTP, but it was seriously magical. Now, again, it wouldn't scale, right. But it was magical in terms of how that happened. But even if it didn't scale, the point where you can get to that, what do we call it? The "aha moment," right? Where you're like, "Oh, this is how that works," or, "Oh, I get it now." I think you just get there faster with serverless.Daniel: Exactly. I think that's one of the reasons I love serverless is that we have students spin up a serverless function day one of the camp. We don't wait until day three or day four to teach them how to build with serverless. We're like, "Hey, this is the environment that you're going to work in," and then we have them write their own serverless functions based on a boilerplate code that we have written already. So, we try to make the barrier to entry as low as possible, so students don't get intimidated by the word "serverless."Jeremy: Right. Right. Yeah. And I think also it's probably a good place to get people started thinking about just what the cloud is and how the cloud works in general.Daniel: Yeah. Definitely. Some of our students have never even heard of what an API is. So, we really take students from zero to understanding how different services work on the internet and how we can take advantage of services and other code that other people have written to write our own applications. Because a lot of students, especially junior developers, don't realize how little you have to code to actually get an app working. Because most likely there's someone in the world who's coded something that you're looking for to implement already. So, it's more like a jigsaw puzzle than trying to build something yourself.Jeremy: Right. It's that whole Lego concept, just sticking those building blocks together. So, you mentioned, though, some of your students they've never even heard of an API or they don't know what an API is. So, I'm just thinking from the perspective of an absolute beginner, how do you scope a project for an absolute beginner to get them to somewhere where they actually have something that gets them to that "aha moment," makes them feel like, "Hey, I've actually done something interesting here," but not overwhelm them with things like open API spec 3.0? You know what I mean? All this kind of stuff.Daniel: Yeah. I think one of the most important things when you're designing a curriculum is understanding the pain points of the student. So, this curriculum was designed by a bunch of students. I'm not the only one that wrote this curriculum. This curriculum had a lot of contributors from all over the world who are high school and college students. We knew that we didn't want to go too in-depth from the beginning because we have a lot of students from non-traditional backgrounds that don't have a lot of previous knowledge. So, what we try to do is set up guide rails and have boilerplates and things like that to ensure that they're successful. Because the worst thing you can do when you're working with a junior developer is just overwhelm them with information and have really, really hard assignments that lead to frustration.So, we try to make that path really, really easy. But instead, what we try to do is have stretch goals or have extra-curricular assignments where they can apply what they have learned. So, if they're a little bit more advanced and they're getting the concepts and they're understanding at a deeper level how things work, they're able to practice and hone those skills. So, what we do is we try to work with our mentors, our fabulous mentors who are engineers in the industry, to help students code those stretch goals and help them understand at a deeper level if they have the capacity to do so. So, we try to customize the experience for every student based on their previous experience.Jeremy: Right. And I think another important thing is setting expectations with the students as well. I mean, you mentioned earlier that this isn't a bootcamp that you're guaranteeing $100,000 salaries when you walk out. I think that that is something, to me, where I think that level of honesty and truth is really important because I think there are a lot of these eight to 12-week boot camps that over-promise. And I don't know. I mean, I've been doing this for 24 years, and I don't feel like I'm an expert on anything and I've been doing it for a very long time. So, eight weeks doesn't get you to be an expert in anything, but if you can become productive, that's pretty exciting.Daniel: Yeah. Our goal is not to get you a six-figure job. Because that would be nice, but I feel like that's straight-up lying. Because I don't know all the students before they start personally, and I can't promise them a six-figure job. That's just ridiculous to me. But what I can promise is that you will ship an app. That's what I can promise. And I feel like when you're shipping an app and you're writing code to build an actual app that will work, you learn so much. You learn how to plan for a software project, how to ask questions, how to look for things on Google. So, that's the things we promise is the experiences, not necessarily the shiny six-figure salary. Even though I wish I could promise that. That would be amazing.Jeremy: Right. Yeah. And I think probably the greatest skill you can teach anyone as a developer is how to Google and how to use stack overflow.Daniel: Definitely.Jeremy: All right. So, you mentioned something about customizing, trying to make sure that the curriculum is adapted for the particular student. So, tell me a little bit more about that because that sounds really interesting.Daniel: Yeah. So, one of the reasons that I find our content and curriculum really special is that it's open-ended. It's not like they're programming exactly what every other student programs. So, for the first four weeks, we teach how serverless functions work, how to set up your development environment, everything through pair programming. So students, instead of having lectures, we have senior engineers actually pair program with junior developers, younger students, or students with less experience, so they can ask questions in the chat to learn as they are doing it with a mentor. And during the last four weeks, we actually have the students apply the things they've learned in the first four weeks through pair programming into their own applications. So, we teach them, "Hey, by week one, you should have this part of your project done. Week two, you should have this part of your project done." But we don't really specify exactly what their project should be. So, at the end of the camp, every single student has a different project they have built based on the interests they have, which has been really awesome to see.Jeremy: Well, that's also great, too. It's one of those things where, when your English teacher forces you to read Romeo and Juliet and you're not interested in Shakespeare, it's really hard to excel in that sometimes. So, letting people pick and choose where they go, I think is, again, is just a really good motivator and an excellent way. And again, just not over-promising. Just teaching people some of the basics, and then you have something to work on, something to iterate on, something to go a little bit deeper on and start understanding. If you just know that there are headers when you call an API, then you can maybe start doing some research as to what the other headers are and what I can do with those. And I think that level of curiosity would be really great for somebody and again, would excite them and get them going down that path.Daniel: Definitely. And I think the best way that students learn is actually trying to implement the things they have in their head. Because some of these projects that students have built for their capstone projects have been very, very complicated using serverless functions. One of the students actually built a Dropbox clone using serverless functions, and it was actually amazing. I couldn't do that, honestly, but she built it in three weeks, I think. So, I think it's the creativity that really, really I find impressive and amazing every cohort we have, is the variance in projects that we have for every single student.Jeremy: Right. Yeah. So, what are some of those projects? Because I think that'd be really interesting. Just give some examples of the sort of things you can build, right? Because the "Hello, World" tutorials are out there. People can go and probably cobble something together, but it sounds to me like the students that you have are building something that is actually, maybe not-production ready, but it is something that solves a real problem and it's a real solution to that. So, what are some of those different projects?Daniel: Definitely. One of our students, Bo, built an IoT heart rate monitor that connected to a serverless function. So, every time that the heartbeat went over a certain number, it would send a Twilio text message to the family members of whoever was subscribed to that particular heartbeat monitor. And he built that because his grandfather was suffering with some heart issues, and it was really important to his family that they knew that he was doing okay. They got alerted every time his heartbeat got too fast. So, he actually built this whole thing using a Raspberry PI. He had a heartbeat sensor that was attached to a bracelet and it actually connected to a Serverless function. And he demoed it and he actually did jumping jacks to get his heart rate up. It actually worked, which was super awesome. We got to demo during our demo day.Another student built a face mask detector. So, she would have someone take a picture on her website of someone wearing a face mask. And it would tell, using some cognitive APIs, if someone was wearing a mask or not. And she designed that because she knew a lot of local businesses who didn't have staff directly in the entrance of the business, and she wanted to make sure there was a solution where the owners could make sure someone was wearing a mask before they entered the establishment. So, that was a really cool project. There was another student who was actually in his forties who was a mining engineer who wanted to make a career change. So, he actually built this awesome serverless function that sent out earthquake notifications based on the data from the government, which was really, really awesome as well. So, there's so many projects that students have built with serverless functions, ranging everything from IoT to big data and so many things that I've learned actually, by watching all these projects being built.Jeremy: Yeah. That's amazing. And actually I think that something that's really interesting, you mentioned the gentleman with the career change, is that developers, I think, especially career developers, I mean, we get narrowly focused on solving software problems, right?Daniel: Exactly.Jeremy: And we maybe don't think so much about some of these other real-world problems that exist. So, that idea of taking your existing life experiences and problems that you've been dealing with and have a solution maybe in your head, but you can't express that. That's really frustrating, right? So, being able to do something like this and being able to express that, I think that's absolutely amazing.Daniel: Definitely. And I think this is one of the reasons why I find this program really rewarding for both students and the people who actually run the program because they see folks who have zero experience getting to the point where they can build the things that are in their head, which I think is magical.Jeremy: Yeah. No, I totally agree. Also, I think you said there's some other case studies on the blog?Daniel: Yeah. So, if you go to bitproject.org and go to the blog, we have a bunch of case studies that are still being uploaded. So, every week we're going to have new student projects that are going to be uploaded there. So, if you want to see some of the cool stuff that our students have built, feel free to go check it out.Jeremy: Awesome. All right. So, you just mentioned that this is a really rewarding thing. And I know for me, I do a lot of open source projects. I try to help as many people as I can. I don't run a nonprofit that runs courses. Maybe someday. But I do get exactly what you're saying because it is great to get that feedback, to see someone be successful because you've helped enable that. So, I know you're looking for mentors, right?Daniel: Yeah, definitely. We're looking for mentors who have previous experience or passion with serverless to mentor students, to get them to that point where they can build their own apps. So, we'd love to have you if you are interested and have a couple of hours per week to spare.Jeremy: Right. What's the requirement or the time commitment? It's just a few hours a week?Daniel: We recommend four to five hours a week to just work directly one-on-one with the student, and previous experience in serverless or just regular full-stack development is quite encouraged because we want to make sure that you are able to answer some of the technical questions that students might have around the content.Jeremy: Right. And you mentioned that, again, just going back to the mining example, but it sounds like that gentlemen was a little bit older. So, what's the age range of the students that you have in this program?Daniel: We don't have a minimum or maximum age that we accept. We just care about passion and the willingness to complete the program. Because the program is completely free, the standard that we set for our applicants is not of experience, but more of passion and desire to learn and become a successful developer.Jeremy: Right, right. Yeah. So, what about for mentors or people who are looking to do this? Again, I know it's rewarding to work with people and to help people. You know it's rewarding. What can you tell people, though, that might be interested in this? What are some of the other benefits, I guess, of being a mentor?Daniel: Yeah. Some of the really cool benefits I've seen is that we've been working directly with the Azure Functions team at Microsoft to mentor our students because they are using Azure Functions as the platform to host their serverless functions. And we've actually had PMs that are building as their functions, work with our students to get new ideas for product features, as well as engineers getting direct feedback on the features they worked on only a couple of weeks prior. Which I think is quite magical because I've seen these older PMs who are building that product the students are using and the students are very blunt, let me tell you. So they're like, "This feature makes no sense." So, a couple of weeks later it's magically fixed for some reason. I don't know how that could have happened, but things get resolved quite quickly when the student feedback comes in.Jeremy: Yeah. And also the other thing is, is that again, it's feedback that's, I guess, untainted from the experience of being a developer, right?Daniel: Definitely.Jeremy: So, it's like that childhood honesty that is what probably every product management team needs to figure that stuff out. So, all right. Well, so where are you going with this? What do you hope to do with Bit Project? I mean, is this something you want to grow or you want to add more courses? What's the future?Daniel: Definitely. That's a great question. So, as I work for New Relic, we are pivoting to create more content and more courses and more interactive learning materials and experiences in the DevOps field. So, right now we're creating content around observability, around container orchestration, things like that, that are more niche skills that students could learn to better their chances of getting a job as a site reliability engineer or a DevOps engineer. But most importantly, right now what we're trying to do is make sure that we're ready to scale as soon as possible because we feel like we have something really special here where we're teaching students how to ship apps, not to learn specific concepts like HTML or CSS. I think we have a really unique model here of how we're teaching students and how we're working with industry, leveraging cloud advocates and engineers who want to volunteer their specialized skill to better the community. So, right now I see the future as us helping make and lead more engineers of the future so we can have better services and better internet, hopefully, in a couple of years or a couple of decades.Jeremy: Well, it's a very noble goal. And so what about data science? I know there's a thing on the site about data science and I think you're doing some work with universities around that, right?Daniel: Yeah, definitely. So, we have a program called Bit University where we create these really easy-to-integrate data science courses for humanities classrooms, because there's a huge demand right now for humanities students to get data science experience, to get research opportunities as well as job opportunities. But a lot of them actually don't have access to data science courses because they're a humanities major, especially at smaller schools. So, what we do is we partner with universities like Cal State Fullerton and Sacramento State University to provide data science courses specifically tailored for humanities majors at these schools partnering with professors. So, yeah, that's the program and it's been super successful and we've had so many humanities students learn the basic skills they need to get these internships and these research opportunities, which has been really rewarding.Jeremy: Yeah. That's awesome. So Daniel, is there anything else you want to tell the listeners about Bit Project?Daniel: Definitely. Yeah. So, if you or your company want to help us make more technical content, like let's say you work in DevOps or you even work in Serverless functions that you want to extend the work we're doing, especially if you're an advocate, please reach out to me. I'm on Twitter. I'm on email. So, please reach out to me to work together on more technical content because my job is to make things more assessable. So, if you want to make anything, whether it's your area of expertise or something you think could be more accessible, I'd love to work with you to make sure that happens. And that is a free resource that's available to the community. That's my plug.Jeremy: That's awesome.Daniel: Reach out to me.Jeremy: That's awesome. No, I love it. Daniel, I appreciate, one, you being here and sharing this with everybody, but also the work that you're doing with the community is just amazing. The more people we can get into serverless and the more people we can get to understand this next generation of, I don't know, applications, I guess you want to call it, is absolutely a very, very noble goal. So, you mentioned Twitter. So, it's just learnwdaniel, right?Daniel: Definitely. Yeah.Jeremy: And then also the Bit Project has a Twitter, just bitPRJ. And then if you're interested in volunteering, you go to bitproject.org/volunteer. And students, if students want to sign up, how do they do that? They just go to bitproject.org?Daniel: Yeah. You can go directly to apply at bitproject.org, or if you want more information about the program, just go to bitproject. There's a huge banner at the top that will lead you directly to that website.Jeremy: Awesome. All right. Well, I will make sure I get all that into the show notes. Thanks again, Daniel.Daniel: Thank you.

3 Easter First Psalm: Psalm 30; Psalm 32 Psalm 30 (Listen) Joy Comes with the Morning A Psalm of David. A song at the dedication of the temple. 30   I will extol you, O LORD, for you have drawn me up    and have not let my foes rejoice over me.2   O LORD my God, I cried to you for help,    and you have healed me.3   O LORD, you have brought up my soul from Sheol;    you restored me to life from among those who go down to the pit.1 4   Sing praises to the LORD, O you his saints,    and give thanks to his holy name.25   For his anger is but for a moment,    and his favor is for a lifetime.3  Weeping may tarry for the night,    but joy comes with the morning. 6   As for me, I said in my prosperity,    “I shall never be moved.”7   By your favor, O LORD,    you made my mountain stand strong;  you hid your face;    I was dismayed. 8   To you, O LORD, I cry,    and to the Lord I plead for mercy:9   “What profit is there in my death,4    if I go down to the pit?5  Will the dust praise you?    Will it tell of your faithfulness?10   Hear, O LORD, and be merciful to me!    O LORD, be my helper!” 11   You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;    you have loosed my sackcloth    and clothed me with gladness,12   that my glory may sing your praise and not be silent.    O LORD my God, I will give thanks to you forever! Footnotes [1] 30:3 Or to life, that I should not go down to the pit [2] 30:4 Hebrew to the memorial of his holiness (see Exodus 3:15) [3] 30:5 Or and in his favor is life [4] 30:9 Hebrew in my blood [5] 30:9 Or to corruption (ESV) Psalm 32 (Listen) Blessed Are the Forgiven A Maskil1 of David. 32   Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven,    whose sin is covered.2   Blessed is the man against whom the LORD counts no iniquity,    and in whose spirit there is no deceit. 3   For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away    through my groaning all day long.4   For day and night your hand was heavy upon me;    my strength was dried up2 as by the heat of summer. Selah 5   I acknowledged my sin to you,    and I did not cover my iniquity;  I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,”    and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah 6   Therefore let everyone who is godly    offer prayer to you at a time when you may be found;  surely in the rush of great waters,    they shall not reach him.7   You are a hiding place for me;    you preserve me from trouble;    you surround me with shouts of deliverance. Selah 8   I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;    I will counsel you with my eye upon you.9   Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding,    which must be curbed with bit and bridle,    or it will not stay near you. 10   Many are the sorrows of the wicked,    but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the LORD.11   Be glad in the LORD, and rejoice, O righteous,    and shout for joy, all you upright in heart! Footnotes [1] 32:1 Probably a musical or liturgical term [2] 32:4 Hebrew my vitality was changed (ESV) Second Psalm: Psalms 42–43 Psalms 42–43 (Listen) Book Two Why Are You Cast Down, O My Soul? To the choirmaster. A Maskil1 of the Sons of Korah. 42   As a deer pants for flowing streams,    so pants my soul for you, O God.2   My soul thirsts for God,    for the living God.  When shall I come and appear before God?23   My tears have been my food    day and night,  while they say to me all the day long,    “Where is your God?”4   These things I remember,    as I pour out my soul:  how I would go with the throng    and lead them in procession to the house of God  with glad shouts and songs of praise,    a multitude keeping festival. 5   Why are you cast down, O my soul,    and why are you in turmoil within me?  Hope in God; for I shall again praise him,    my salvation3 6 and my God.   My soul is cast down within me;    therefore I remember you  from the land of Jordan and of Hermon,    from Mount Mizar.7   Deep calls to deep    at the roar of your waterfalls;  all your breakers and your waves    have gone over me.8   By day the LORD commands his steadfast love,    and at night his song is with me,    a prayer to the God of my life.9   I say to God, my rock:    “Why have you forgotten me?  Why do I go mourning    because of the oppression of the enemy?”10   As with a deadly wound in my bones,    my adversaries taunt me,  while they say to me all the day long,    “Where is your God?” 11   Why are you cast down, O my soul,    and why are you in turmoil within me?  Hope in God; for I shall again praise him,    my salvation and my God. Send Out Your Light and Your Truth 43   Vindicate me, O God, and defend my cause    against an ungodly people,  from the deceitful and unjust man    deliver me!2   For you are the God in whom I take refuge;    why have you rejected me?  Why do I go about mourning    because of the oppression of the enemy? 3   Send out your light and your truth;    let them lead me;  let them bring me to your holy hill    and to your dwelling!4   Then I will go to the altar of God,    to God my exceeding joy,  and I will praise you with the lyre,    O God, my God. 5   Why are you cast down, O my soul,    and why are you in turmoil within me?  Hope in God; for I shall again praise him,    my salvation and my God. Footnotes [1] 42:1 Probably a musical or liturgical term [2] 42:2 Revocalization yields and see the face of God [3] 42:5 Hebrew the salvation of my face; also verse 11 and 43:5 (ESV) Old Testament: Daniel 6:16–28 Daniel 6:16–28 (Listen) 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared1 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Footnotes [1] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 (ESV) New Testament: 3 John 3 John (Listen) Greeting 1 The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth. 2 Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul. 3 For I rejoiced greatly when the brothers1 came and testified to your truth, as indeed you are walking in the truth. 4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth. Support and Opposition 5 Beloved, it is a faithful thing you do in all your efforts for these brothers, strangers as they are, 6 who testified to your love before the church. You will do well to send them on their journey in a manner worthy of God. 7 For they have gone out for the sake of the name, accepting nothing from the Gentiles. 8 Therefore we ought to support people like these, that we may be fellow workers for the truth. 9 I have written something to the church, but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority. 10 So if I come, I will bring up what he is doing, talking wicked nonsense against us. And not content with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers, and also stops those who want to and puts them out of the church. 11 Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God. 12 Demetrius has received a good testimony from everyone, and from the truth itself. We also add our testimony, and you know that our testimony is true. Final Greetings 13 I had much to write to you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink. 14 I hope to see you soon, and we will talk face to face. 15 Peace be to you. The friends greet you. Greet the friends, each by name. Footnotes [1] 1:3 Or brothers and sisters. In New Testament usage, depending on the context, the plural Greek word adelphoi (translated “brothers”) may refer either to brothers or to brothers and sisters; also verses 5, 10 (ESV) Gospel: Luke 5:27–39 Luke 5:27–39 (Listen) Jesus Calls Levi 27 After this he went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax booth. And he said to him, “Follow me.” 28 And leaving everything, he rose and followed him. 29 And Levi made him a great feast in his house, and there was a large company of tax collectors and others reclining at table with them. 30 And the Pharisees and their scribes grumbled at his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31 And Jesus answered them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” A Question About Fasting 33 And they said to him, “The disciples of John fast often and offer prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink.” 34 And Jesus said to them, “Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? 35 The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days.” 36 He also told them a parable: “No one tears a piece from a new garment and puts it on an old garment. If he does, he will tear the new, and the piece from the new will not match the old. 37 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed. 38 But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins. 39 And no one after drinking old wine desires new, for he says, ‘The old is good.’”1 Footnotes [1] 5:39 Some manuscripts better (ESV)

Readings for Saturday, April 24, 2021 “Beloved, do not imitate what is evil but imitate what is good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.” -- 3 John 11 Morning Psalm 92 1 It is good to give thanks to the Lord, to sing praises to your name, O Most High; 2 to declare your steadfast love in the morning, and your faithfulness by night, 3 to the music of the lute and the harp, to the melody of the lyre. 4 For you, O Lord, have made me glad by your work; at the works of your hands I sing for joy. 5 How great are your works, O Lord ! Your thoughts are very deep! 6 The dullard cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this: 7 though the wicked sprout like grass and all evildoers flourish, they are doomed to destruction forever, 8 but you, O Lord, are on high forever. 9 For your enemies, O Lord, for your enemies shall perish; all evildoers shall be scattered. 10 But you have exalted my horn like that of the wild ox; you have poured over me fresh oil. 11 My eyes have seen the downfall of my enemies; my ears have heard the doom of my evil assailants. 12 The righteous flourish like the palm tree, and grow like a cedar in Lebanon. 13 They are planted in the house of the Lord ; they flourish in the courts of our God. 14 In old age they still produce fruit; they are always green and full of sap, 15 showing that the Lord is upright; he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him. Psalm 149 1 Praise the Lord ! Sing to the Lord a new song, his praise in the assembly of the faithful. 2 Let Israel be glad in its Maker; let the children of Zion rejoice in their King. 3 Let them praise his name with dancing, making melody to him with tambourine and lyre. 4 For the Lord takes pleasure in his people; he adorns the humble with victory. 5 Let the faithful exult in glory; let them sing for joy on their couches. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their throats and two-edged swords in their hands, 7 to execute vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples, 8 to bind their kings with fetters and their nobles with chains of iron, 9 to execute on them the judgment decreed. This is glory for all his faithful ones. Praise the Lord ! Midday Daniel 6:16-28 16 Then the king gave the command, and Daniel was brought and thrown into the den of lions. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you faithfully serve, deliver you!” 17 A stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, so that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no food was brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king got up and hurried to the den of lions. 20 When he came near the den where Daniel was, he cried out anxiously to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God whom you faithfully serve been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Daniel then said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths so that they would not hurt me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no wrong.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 The king gave a command, and those who had accused Daniel were brought and thrown into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. Before they reached the bottom of the den the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all peoples and nations of every language throughout the whole world: “May you have abundant prosperity! 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people should tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: For he is the living God, enduring forever. His kingdom shall never be destroyed, and his dominion has no end. 27 He delivers and rescues, he works signs and wonders in heaven and on earth; for he has saved Daniel from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. 3 John 1-15 1 The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I love in truth. 2 Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, just as it is well with your soul. 3 I was overjoyed when some of the friends arrived and testified to your faithfulness to the truth, namely how you walk in the truth. 4 I have no greater joy than this, to hear that my children are walking in the truth. 5 Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do for the friends, even though they are strangers to you; 6 they have testified to your love before the church. You will do well to send them on in a manner worthy of God; 7 for they began their journey for the sake of Christ, accepting no support from non-believers. 8 Therefore we ought to support such people, so that we may become co-workers with the truth. 9 I have written something to the church; but Diotrephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge our authority. 10 So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing in spreading false charges against us. And not content with those charges, he refuses to welcome the friends, and even prevents those who want to do so and expels them from the church. 11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil but imitate what is good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God. 12 Everyone has testified favorably about Demetrius, and so has the truth itself. We also testify for him, and you know that our testimony is true. 13 I have much to write to you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink; 14 instead I hope to see you soon, and we will talk together face to face. 15 Peace to you. The friends send you their greetings. Greet the friends there, each by name. Luke 5:27-39 27 After this he went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax booth; and he said to him, “Follow me.” 28 And he got up, left everything, and followed him. 29 Then Levi gave a great banquet for him in his house; and there was a large crowd of tax collectors and others sitting at the table with them. 30 The Pharisees and their scribes were complaining to his disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31 Jesus answered, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; 32 I have come to call not the righteous but sinners to repentance.” 33 Then they said to him, “John's disciples, like the disciples of the Pharisees, frequently fast and pray, but your disciples eat and drink.” 34 Jesus said to them, “You cannot make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them, can you? 35 The days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days.” 36 He also told them a parable: “No one tears a piece from a new garment and sews it on an old garment; otherwise the new will be torn, and the piece from the new will not match the old. 37 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the new wine will burst the skins and will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed. 38 But new wine must be put into fresh wineskins. 39 And no one after drinking old wine desires new wine, but says, ‘The old is good.'” Evening Psalm 23 1 The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. 2 He makes me lie down in green pastures; he leads me beside still waters; 3 he restores my soul. He leads me in right paths for his name's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I fear no evil; for you are with me; your rod and your staff— they comfort me. 5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. 6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord my whole life long. Psalm 114 1 When Israel went out from Egypt, the house of Jacob from a people of strange language, 2 Judah became God's sanctuary, Israel his dominion. 3 The sea looked and fled; Jordan turned back. 4 The mountains skipped like rams, the hills like lambs. 5 Why is it, O sea, that you flee? O Jordan, that you turn back? 6 O mountains, that you skip like rams? O hills, like lambs? 7 Tremble, O earth, at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the God of Jacob, 8 who turns the rock into a pool of water, the flint into a spring of water. You can also find all of today's readings at PCUSA.org. The Daily Lectionary podcast is a ministry of First Presbyterian Church of Plattsburgh, NY, read by Pastor Timothy J. Luoma.

Dreams are not something we talk about much in Christian circles. However, we do see in Scripture that at times the Lord has used dreams to teach people about Himself and to communicate His glory to others. In our text today, the Lord did just that to Daniel, King Nebuchadnezzar, and the world. For Daniel and his friends, the deck was stacked against them. King Nebuchadnezzar’s request to interpret his dream was humanly impossible, and the punishment was absurd. So Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego did what only they knew how to do, they prayed. Together they sought help from the “God of heaven.” This title is used four times in this chapter and nowhere else in the book (vv. 18, 19, 37, 44). They needed knowledge for this mystery that could only come from an all-knowing God. While the pagan Babylonians worshiped the luminaries, the Israelites worship the God of heaven. God answered their prayers by revealing the mystery of the dream to Daniel in a vision. Daniel responded with a prayer of praise to Yahweh (vv. 20–23). His prayer begins by praising God for being eternal, omniscient, and all-powerful (v. 20). He emphasizes that God is sovereign over all political affairs and people and indeed the One who brings people in and out of power. Daniel recognizes that only God is the One capable to give revelation and wisdom by revealing “deep and hidden things” (v. 22). Daniel was quick to give thanks and praise to the “God of my ancestors,” for the wisdom he discerned (v. 23). The interpretation of the dream was nothing he did on his own or with the help of friends. Humanly speaking, it was impossible. But the God of heaven provided salvation for them. >> You may not be asked to interpret any dreams, but if you need wisdom and discernment today, pray to the God of heaven. The all-knowing God knows exactly what you should do.

Readings for Tuesday, April 13, 2021 “Whoever says, ‘I am in the light,' while hating a brother or sister, is still in the darkness. Whoever loves a brother or sister lives in the light, and in such a person there is no cause for stumbling.” — 1 John 2:9-10 Morning Psalm 98 1 O sing to the Lord a new song, for he has done marvelous things. His right hand and his holy arm have gotten him victory. 2 The Lord has made known his victory; he has revealed his vindication in the sight of the nations. 3 He has remembered his steadfast love and faithfulness to the house of Israel. All the ends of the earth have seen the victory of our God. 4 Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth; break forth into joyous song and sing praises. 5 Sing praises to the Lord with the lyre, with the lyre and the sound of melody. 6 With trumpets and the sound of the horn make a joyful noise before the King, the Lord . 7 Let the sea roar, and all that fills it; the world and those who live in it. 8 Let the floods clap their hands; let the hills sing together for joy 9 at the presence of the Lord, for he is coming to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, and the peoples with equity. Psalm 146 1 Praise the Lord ! Praise the Lord, O my soul! 2 I will praise the Lord as long as I live; I will sing praises to my God all my life long. 3 Do not put your trust in princes, in mortals, in whom there is no help. 4 When their breath departs, they return to the earth; on that very day their plans perish. 5 Happy are those whose help is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the Lord their God, 6 who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them; who keeps faith forever; 7 who executes justice for the oppressed; who gives food to the hungry. The Lord sets the prisoners free; 8 the Lord opens the eyes of the blind. The Lord lifts up those who are bowed down; the Lord loves the righteous. 9 The Lord watches over the strangers; he upholds the orphan and the widow, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin. 10 The Lord will reign forever, your God, O Zion, for all generations. Praise the Lord ! Midday Daniel 2:1-16 2 In the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign, Nebuchadnezzar dreamed such dreams that his spirit was troubled and his sleep left him. 2 So the king commanded that the magicians, the enchanters, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans be summoned to tell the king his dreams. When they came in and stood before the king, 3 he said to them, “I have had such a dream that my spirit is troubled by the desire to understand it.” 4 The Chaldeans said to the king (in Aramaic), “O king, live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will reveal the interpretation.” 5 The king answered the Chaldeans, “This is a public decree: if you do not tell me both the dream and its interpretation, you shall be torn limb from limb, and your houses shall be laid in ruins. 6 But if you do tell me the dream and its interpretation, you shall receive from me gifts and rewards and great honor. Therefore tell me the dream and its interpretation.” 7 They answered a second time, “Let the king first tell his servants the dream, then we can give its interpretation.” 8 The king answered, “I know with certainty that you are trying to gain time, because you see I have firmly decreed: 9 if you do not tell me the dream, there is but one verdict for you. You have agreed to speak lying and misleading words to me until things take a turn. Therefore, tell me the dream, and I shall know that you can give me its interpretation.” 10 The Chaldeans answered the king, “There is no one on earth who can reveal what the king demands! In fact no king, however great and powerful, has ever asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or Chaldean. 11 The thing that the king is asking is too difficult, and no one can reveal it to the king except the gods, whose dwelling is not with mortals.” 12 Because of this the king flew into a violent rage and commanded that all the wise men of Babylon be destroyed. 13 The decree was issued, and the wise men were about to be executed; and they looked for Daniel and his companions, to execute them. 14 Then Daniel responded with prudence and discretion to Arioch, the king's chief executioner, who had gone out to execute the wise men of Babylon; 15 he asked Arioch, the royal official, “Why is the decree of the king so urgent?” Arioch then explained the matter to Daniel. 16 So Daniel went in and requested that the king give him time and he would tell the king the interpretation. 1 John 2:1-11 2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. 4 Whoever says, “I have come to know him,” but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; 5 but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 whoever says, “I abide in him,” ought to walk just as he walked. 7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word that you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new commandment that is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. 9 Whoever says, “I am in the light,” while hating a brother or sister, is still in the darkness. 10 Whoever loves a brother or sister lives in the light, and in such a person there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates another believer is in the darkness, walks in the darkness, and does not know the way to go, because the darkness has brought on blindness. John 17:12-19 12 While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost, so that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to you, and I speak these things in the world so that they may have my joy made complete in themselves. 14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 15 I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but I ask you to protect them from the evil one. 16 They do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you have sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth. Evening Psalm 66 1 Make a joyful noise to God, all the earth; 2 sing the glory of his name; give to him glorious praise. 3 Say to God, “How awesome are your deeds! Because of your great power, your enemies cringe before you. 4 All the earth worships you; they sing praises to you, sing praises to your name.” 5 Come and see what God has done: he is awesome in his deeds among mortals. 6 He turned the sea into dry land; they passed through the river on foot. There we rejoiced in him, 7 who rules by his might forever, whose eyes keep watch on the nations— let the rebellious not exalt themselves. 8 Bless our God, O peoples, let the sound of his praise be heard, 9 who has kept us among the living, and has not let our feet slip. 10 For you, O God, have tested us; you have tried us as silver is tried. 11 You brought us into the net; you laid burdens on our backs; 12 you let people ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet you have brought us out to a spacious place. 13 I will come into your house with burnt offerings; I will pay you my vows, 14 those that my lips uttered and my mouth promised when I was in trouble. 15 I will offer to you burnt offerings of fatlings, with the smoke of the sacrifice of rams; I will make an offering of bulls and goats. 16 Come and hear, all you who fear God, and I will tell what he has done for me. 17 I cried aloud to him, and he was extolled with my tongue. 18 If I had cherished iniquity in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. 19 But truly God has listened; he has given heed to the words of my prayer. 20 Blessed be God, because he has not rejected my prayer or removed his steadfast love from me. Psalm 116 1 I love the Lord, because he has heard my voice and my supplications. 2 Because he inclined his ear to me, therefore I will call on him as long as I live. 3 The snares of death encompassed me; the pangs of Sheol laid hold on me; I suffered distress and anguish. 4 Then I called on the name of the Lord : “O Lord, I pray, save my life!” 5 Gracious is the Lord, and righteous; our God is merciful. 6 The Lord protects the simple; when I was brought low, he saved me. 7 Return, O my soul, to your rest, for the Lord has dealt bountifully with you. 8 For you have delivered my soul from death, my eyes from tears, my feet from stumbling. 9 I walk before the Lord in the land of the living. 10 I kept my faith, even when I said, “I am greatly afflicted”; 11 I said in my consternation, “Everyone is a liar.” 12 What shall I return to the Lord for all his bounty to me? 13 I will lift up the cup of salvation and call on the name of the Lord, 14 I will pay my vows to the Lord in the presence of all his people. 15 Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his faithful ones. 16 O Lord, I am your servant; I am your servant, the child of your serving girl. You have loosed my bonds. 17 I will offer to you a thanksgiving sacrifice and call on the name of the Lord . 18 I will pay my vows to the Lord in the presence of all his people, 19 in the courts of the house of the Lord, in your midst, O Jerusalem. Praise the Lord ! You can also find all of today's readings at PCUSA.org. The Daily Lectionary podcast is a ministry of First Presbyterian Church of Plattsburgh, NY, read by Pastor Timothy J. Luoma.

In this episode, Net Health's Daniel Folsom talks about how to use Google ads and how to boost your SEO to drive more potential clients to your business.  In this episode we discuss:  - How to use online directories to boost your SEO - The importance of online reviews  - The ins and outs of running a Google Ad - Are Facebook ads worth it?  - How to prepare to run an ad on either Google or facebook - and much more!    More about Daniel:  My Name is Daniel Folsom the account executive for the Digital Marketing Group at Net Health.  I have 20+ years’ experience in the healthcare world through sales and practice development. I live in the beautiful state of Georgia and have two kids (four-legged) Jon Jon and Oliver. I have a passion for helping private practices find ways to grow their brand and sustain a healthy level of consistent revenue through patient engagement.   Resources:  Rehab Therapy Outpatient Services 101: How to Expand into the Home or Assisted Living Facility. Free Market Scan Daniel's LinkedIn   Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website:                   https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:        https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                       https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud:              https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:                      https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio:              https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927   Read the Transcript: Speaker 1 (00:07): Welcome to the healthy, wealthy, and smart podcast. Each week we interview the best and brightest in physical therapy, wellness, and entrepreneurship. We give you cutting edge information. You need to live your best life. Healthy, wealthy, and smart. The information in this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and should not be used as personalized medical advice. And now here's your host, Dr. Karen Litzy. Speaker 2 (00:35): Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm your host. Karen Lindsay and today's episode is brought to you by net health. So net health has a great new webinar coming up tomorrow, April 13th at 2:00 PM. Eastern standard time with Ellen Strunk. She is a physical therapist, owner of rehab resources and consulting, and his net health guest panelists discussing rehab therapy, outpatient services. One-On-One how to expand into the home or assisted living facility. Ellen lectures nationally on the topics of pharmacology for rehab professionals, exercise and wellness for older adults, coding billing, documentation for therapy services, and the importance of functional outcomes to value based payment, head over to net health.com/litzy to sign up as a bonus. When you sign up for the webinar type, Litzy in the comments section of the registration show up to the webinar and net house. We'll buy lunch for your office. Once again, that's net health.com forward slash L I T Z Y. Speaker 2 (01:32): To sign up now on today's podcast, we are talking all about S E O for people who aren't familiar. That means search engine optimization. And my guest is Daniel Folsom. He is an account executive for the digital marketing group at net health. He has 20 plus years experience in the healthcare world through sales and practical development. He lives in the beautiful state of Georgia has two kids, four legged, John, John, and Oliver. And he has a passion for helping private practices, find ways to grow their brand and sustain a healthy level of consistent revenue through patient engagement, which is something we all want if we own our own practice. So today we talk about digital marketing. We talk about search engine optimization. What it is, is it dead? Is it alive? How can you make your website more SEO friendly? We talk about Google and Facebook ads and are they really worth the cost? Speaker 2 (02:30): And guys, this is a deep dive. This is really talking about Google ads and definitely Google ads more than Facebook ads. But boy did I learn a lot and Daniel is very generous. He is offering a free market scan, covering all online directories, which there's like, guys are so many. I had no idea all these online directories that will make a difference in where your podcast is ranked on Google. And so what the folks at net health are, is a free market scan, covering all those online directories to see if you're in there or not tedious work folks. You don't want to do this yourself. So Daniel talks about how you can get that free scan in today's podcast. So everyone enjoy, Speaker 3 (03:16): Hey Daniel, welcome to the podcast. I'm happy to have you on the show this week. Thank you very much. Happy to be here. Great. And today we're talking about, I think something that can affect every single physical therapist that has a website, every company, every individual therapist, and that is looking at SEO or search engine engine optimization. And we're also gonna touch on online ads, Facebook ads, Google ads, things like that, but let's start out with SEO. So here's the question is the title of the episode is SEO dead. Absolutely not. That's the biggest question that we have to answer today, right? How are you found online when you're found, what does that online reputation look like for your Google ads? So when I find you, what does it look like? Funny, kind of a funny story. I was working with a physical therapist group last week and we've looked at their Google listing and they actually had a picture of chilies. Speaker 3 (04:22): So what happens is, and I thought, well, Hey, if you're cracking backs in ribs, I think I want to make an appointment, right? That would be a win-win yet what Google does. If we don't actually create that directory and clean it up is they take the Google earth pictures that attached to your address and they put those images on. So if you haven't looked at it, definitely take a peek at that Google listing anyway, yes. With our SEO, try to get back to that. We want to know what you look like across these search directories. Can people find you with your address and they call you from your phone number. If they look at these directories, are these directories actually clean with reviews? Are you getting good reviews? Are you responding to the negative reviews? So all of this goes into making up that SEO. Speaker 3 (05:12): You know, I always say, if people ask me, you know, when, when should we start SEO? And, and as I mentioned, you should have started 20 years ago. And when you say looking at all these different directories how many directories are there? And can you give some examples? Because I just think, well, Google, what are the other directories? So there are 72 plus directories. And when we talk about directory management, we talk about 72 different directories. The reason we talk about 72 is those are what massage, Google analytics to make Google happy. So Google actually sends these small bots out across all of these different directories to make sure they're consistent across internet. And that affects your Google analytics. Of course. So these bots also work in tandem with Google because they want to be the next game on the net. They want to be the next big game on the street, right? So they're sending bots out to find information. So when we run what we call a business scan here at net help, we are running that business scan to look at how accurate all of these directories look for you. You will find if you've had a practice purchase, if you have gone by a different name, if you've moved locations, a lot of these directories are going to be out of line. So if anyone's using those, they're either going to go to the wrong address. They're going to see the wrong name so forth. Speaker 4 (06:37): And what, so aside from Google, what are some of these directories? Is that like Yelp or is it, is that one or no, Speaker 3 (06:46): We, we have Yelp, we have yellow pages. We have Google business, we have Facebook and using a service, you know, a service we'll actually go in and create those directories so that they're all consistent. More importantly, they go in after that and lock those directories for you, which means they can never be changed or modified unless we go in and actually change your modified those directories for you. You know, some of the other search directories, we talk about Yahoo four square city search MapQuest, local database, a few more just to add on. Speaker 4 (07:21): Yeah, that's a lot. Okay. So what you guys do is you scan all of these directories to make sure that it lines up with what your, what and where your business is, and then absolutely. And then you make it so that people can't hack into it, or can people still hack into it and kind of screw that up. Or Speaker 3 (07:45): Nope. Once these directories are locked, we actually claimed the directories. We clean up that directory management and cleaning up that directory management. We're going to make sure that we've got consistent pictures of the practice. We've got pictures of the team, maybe of the owner with a nice blurb there. So all of these directories are going to look consistent. And of course the goal here is to create a beautiful story, right? So if I search physical therapy near me, I go to your Google ad, your Google ads, beautiful with pictures and reviews and things that click on your website. It then translates the story over to your website. So it's a nice flow from the original organic search all the way to your website. Speaker 4 (08:26): When, what else goes into SEO, because I know people talk about SEO and we always just think, Oh, it's just maybe cleaning up these directories, but I know that what's on your website and maybe the backend of your website also counts for SEO. So can you talk a little bit about that? Speaker 3 (08:49): Sure. So when we talk about your website, we want to talk about keywords that drive to your website. So in using a vendor for your website, you want to make sure that you keep those keywords accurate and you also keep them fresh. For example, when microneedle and came out, we wanted to make sure that we added any of the search words for microneedling in, into those keywords to drive traffic. So we look at the meta tags, we look at the data tags, we look at the backend of what that website is there for, because again, that organic search with Google is the happiest that Google analytics, that it makes it the happiest there. So that's what we're really doing when we drive that traffic with those back keywords. You know, I think a lot of people too, when we talk about websites, miss the opportunity to blog and blogging is huge in having searchable content. You know, let's say you just came back from a wonderful conference and you learned all these cool new techniques or, or services that you can offer going in and creating a blog about that makes it searchable content. Again, we're driving that organic traffic directly over to your website. Speaker 4 (10:06): And if you can drive more organic traffic, does that bump you up in the Google search? Because everybody's like, Oh, you want to be on the first page of Google. Speaker 3 (10:15): Right. Right, right. Where do you hide a dead body, the second page of Google. Speaker 4 (10:20): Right. So how do we, how do we, so obviously adding a blog, making tree of these keywords, making sure all of these directories are up-to-date and locked in. Is there any other tips or tricks that can bump you up in the Google in the eyes of Google without having to pay for it? Cause we'll get into ads in a little, Speaker 3 (10:42): Right. You know, that Karen is a beautiful equation that deals with how old is your domain? Are you garnering reviews? Are your directories established and consistent? So there is a really long equation that goes into making that very, very happy. Of course, you know, running ads can potentially puts you on the first page. And when we talk about ads, we'll talk about what that looks like. But putting you on the first page, it's just a lot of consistency and it's a lot of work to check the right boxes as far as what SEO means and what makes Google happy for you. Okay. Speaker 4 (11:20): Right. So doing all these things that we just discussed, obviously very helpful. Right, right, right. And the more you update your website, does that help to boost it up? Speaker 3 (11:32): Absolutely pleased fresh content every month, whether it's an e-book, whether it's a newsletter, whether it's a blog post, whether you're just changing staff names, we want to keep that website fresh. You know, part of what we, we pride ourselves on at net health is every month and account manager is actually going to go with the customer. We're going to make sure that we're pushing out those blogs. We're pushing out those eBooks. We actually set up cadences for the month ahead of us just to make sure that we're tackling maybe seasonal issues as well. So let's say it's winter time, everybody's slipping and falling. How are we addressing that type of searchable content as well, pulling that organic traffic over to your site. Speaker 4 (12:17): So now let's move on to ads, right? So you've got Google ads, Facebook ads. The big question everyone wants to know is where can I get the most bang for my buck, Speaker 3 (12:30): Bang for your buck. Here's what we need to do everybody. Before we dive into ads, we need to make sure running an ad for you even makes sense. If you just take money and put it into a pay-per-click ad, it's probably not going to work. You know, one of the things that we do at net health with our customers is we do a forecasting call. That forecasting call looks at your geographic area, longitude latitude within 30 miles, because that's generally the driving distance. People are going to come to see your location. And then we type in keywords. I want to see if enough people are searching for those keywords. You know, you could put $2,000 into an ad, but if you have 20 people searching for the keywords that are relative to your services, it's probably not going to be a good return on your investment. Speaker 3 (13:17): So with that forecasting call, we look at those keywords and we also see how much they cost. You know, as we kind of spoke about earlier, those keywords could literally drive your ad budget way out of socket. I've seen people who have run ads in the past that it did make sense to run ads, but they had an ad budget of $400. When we look at that ad budget, we have to tie it into what does a conversion look like? And a conversion is when someone searches for your words goes over to your ad, clicks on that ad and fills it out. So that's somebody that converts over. Now we call that a lead. So this is someone that has engaged. They're looking for your services, they're in your target area, they're searching for your keywords. And they said, Hey, we are looking for you. Speaker 3 (14:12): Now, the other thing when we run these ads to care is which is very, very important is we need a really good call to action. And what does that call to action mean? You know, I think for everyone, this can be unique to the practice, with their call to action. It's something that's going to engage them to take the next step. You know, I have some people who use eBooks and toolkits and things that, you know, fill this out and get the free toolkit or ebook. We generally find that people generally just want the ebook. They really don't want an appointment. So when we really look at a conversion here, we really want to something unique. You know, the cool part of forecasting is we can actually look at what other ads are running, what their calls to action are. So we can really kind of create a unique structure to walk that practice through having an amazing call to action and filling out the form to have that conversion into the lead. I have to say some of the more successful physical therapy practices that are using any type of ads right now, last month, we had someone who ran a targeted ad that gave away a free 30 minute back massage. He had well over 50 participants fill out his lead form, which was huge. I didn't always, I mean, I didn't know that many people needed they're bankrupt, but obviously they do. Speaker 4 (15:36): Right. And what other call to actions have you seen that have been really successful? Like I know a lot of people will say, you know, a free, you know, 20 or 30 minutes call or, or screen or something like that. But what, what else have you seen that has really worked? Speaker 3 (15:59): Usually you want to tie it to something within your services that keeps the person engaged or will engage them. For example a physical therapist was really focused on their, their dry needling and they actually did this hot patch. It was almost a massage machine as well. So after the dry needling, you literally sat on this like hyperbaric type chamber chair and got this warm back massage. That was a part of it as well. Now that was after the third visit. So of course at that point they've got the patient engaged with it. Again, we usually find toolkits eBooks and things really aren't that effective, but something tangible that the patient can actually use or have you know, we've even had people tie them around Starbucks gift card with, we all have our Starbucks. Speaker 4 (16:56): Right, right, right. So really taking some Liberty here to be quite creative, correct? Correct. Okay. And you had mentioned something in talking about the ads about the price of keywords. Can you talk about that a little bit more? Because I know it's definitely something I don't understand. I'm sure it's a lot something, a lot of the listeners don't understand. So go ahead. Speaker 3 (17:20): Sure. So when we, when we look at the forecast, we actually look at the keywords of course, for the services that are offered there at the practice, those keywords, and what Google will tell us is, is what people were paying for those keywords. So the funny part about keywords is in certain areas, some lawyers may be bidding on those keywords as well. So we generally want to keep the costs, the cost per click below $3. If it's above dollars, we really want to see if it makes sense for our practice with their budget. And of course, what outcome they're looking for. Does it really make sense for you to run these ads? Sometimes it does. Sometimes we can have a great return conversion level. Other times we may want to look at some other keywords and other prices just to make sure that, you know, again, this is going to be affordable for the practice and we're going to bring the number of conversions that they need to make this profit. Speaker 4 (18:17): And so for example a keyword like low back pain might be worth, I'm just going to make this up here for $4. Whereas shoulder pain might be worth $3. Like, is that how that works? Speaker 3 (18:33): You got it. Yep. Yep. The biggest trend difference that you see right now is physical therapy. Of course, near me. Where, of course that's an extremely popular keyword search. I've seen it cost 58 cents in certain areas. Right now in Seattle, it's $58 for late work. Speaker 4 (18:56): Okay. So if you're running a Google ad and you have back pain in your ad, it costs $58 per day, Speaker 3 (19:06): $58 for someone to search for that in your area, click on your ad, just click on your ad. Speaker 4 (19:15): Wait. So if five people click on your ad in one day, it costs you like $300. Speaker 3 (19:24): Correct. Do you see what ads can fail for people who aren't doing proper form? Speaker 4 (19:28): I see. Yes I do. Now. Okay. Now this is making much more sense, much more sense. So you really want to know how much those keywords cost to see, like, if it's worth it or can you put in a different keyword and still get that demographic and okay. Speaker 3 (19:47): Absolutely. So some of the things and part of the service of net health that we provide is we provide weekly checks. So we actually go in and you can bid on words every week. So some of those higher dollar words for our customers, there's no guarantee that you're going to win, but if you're paying $10 for physical therapy near me and you bid three 50 on it, you win the bid. Guess what? For the week you actually get $3 and 50 cents. You save $7 for every click for that. We also go into the ad. We look at stale keywords. So if all of the keywords that we have, and you can have up to 50 plus keywords here that we're talking about in a plan we look at what words really are stale. We want to pull those words out because they're just kinda sitting there doing nothing in our, in our campaign. Speaker 3 (20:34): And then we want to put in those active words. So we want to look at what new words may have come up within the week. Also Google gives us a ad score. So if your ad is not running at a hundred percent, we want to make sure that it is running at a hundred percent. So we look at what Google tells us of why it isn't. And we go in and repair that for you. We also, every two weeks make sure that we have a call with our clients just to make sure the ads are running correctly. We're making sure that they understand the keywords because as you can envision, we're bringing the horse to water. It's up to them to teach them how to have that horse drink the water. So we really have to do a lot of sales training on, on what that conversion looks like. You know a few weeks ago we had our podcast on purpose, the profit, and you know, the big comp topic of conversation was, you know, how well trained is your, your front desk staff and answering the phone. So, you know, I really depend a lot on that when we talk about these, these ads, because of course these are hot leads, ready to schedule an appointment. What does that look like when they're actually called for that follow-up Speaker 4 (21:45): And where are these Google ads showing up? So are these the things like if I go onto a website and I see a banner ad or something, is that a Google ad? Or is it only like when you go into Google and you type in physical therapy near me and you see those ones above the fold, the T ad, is that the only place? Right? Speaker 3 (22:08): So, so, so it can be a banner ad. It can be the ladder, as you mentioned, that says, ad generally it's the ladder that says add there, it pushes it to the top, you know? And I think a lot of people get really confused with that because they think, Oh, if I run an ad, I'm going to be at the top of Google. What they don't understand is Google only a lot certain ad spaces on each page, you can have two to three at the top. You can have two to three at the bottom. And that is all based upon the number of people that you actually have in that search criteria. So you could easily pour $2,000 into an ad and be on the top of page two, which again, who's going to look for you there. So one of the things that we really dive into when we run these ads is where are you going to be on that page placement? And where are we going to be able to put you? Because of course it's very important. Speaker 4 (22:58): And in these ads, I mean, are, is, are there photos, are there videos or is it just texts? There is Speaker 3 (23:07): Absolutely. So when we talk about the Google ad, it actually is, it looks like a landing page. So when I click on physical therapy near me and I see Karen physical therapy, I'm going to click on that. It's going to take you to the landing page. Now that landing page again, as we go back to create this beautiful digital marketing story should look just like your website, which should look like your Google directory, which creates this beautiful flow over. Now, that landing page is going to have graphics on it. It could have videos on it. Of course this is where we were going to have your call to generally we ask for name, email address, phone number, and maybe some other information that you want to gather. For example, you know, tell us how we can help you. You know, when would you like to be contacted? Speaker 3 (24:00): Those types of things are important on there as well. The beautiful part of filling out that ad for us is that it actually goes into a lead database. So from that lead database, we can actually nurture that lead for our customers, with eBooks, with personal letters. I love the nurture campaigns to be very personal. You know, let's get to know who the physical therapist are there. Let's get to know who the front desk staff is. So let's send out some really good tailored, personal messages, say, Hey, thanks for clicking on our ad. We'd love to help you. This is Megan she's at the front desk. She can help with that. This is Dr. Smith. He's going to be able to help with it really puts the face and the name together, which creates again that beautiful story and a lot of familiar nurse with the ad. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, this is so much more robust than I had originally thought. This is great. Now let's talk about Facebook ads because with this, I would think, well, if your ideal, customer's not on Facebook, obviously you're not going to be running a Facebook ad. So how effective are these Facebook ads? Speaker 2 (25:12): And on that note, we'll take a quick break and be right back, be sure to sign up for net health next webinar, which will be Tuesday, April 13th at 2:00 PM, entitled rehab therapy, outpatient services, one Oh one. How to expand into the home or assisted living facility. Their guest panelists will be Ellen Strunk, owner of rehab resources and consulting head over to net health.com/glitzy to sign up as a bonus. When you sign up for the webinar type Lindsay in the comment section or the registration show up with a webinar and net health, we'll buy lunch for your office. Once again, that's net health.com forward slash L I T Z Y Speaker 3 (25:54): Facebook ads can be really effective. You know, where we win with Facebook ads is target marketing. So with our ads that we're running they're actually going to be slow creep ads. So they're not kind of those, those strange ads over on the right that nobody hardly ever looks at. These are actually in the feed. So as you're looking at Sonia's wedding photo and Katie's baby picture, you're actually going to see the ad. Now, when we talk target marketing for Facebook, we're really talking about who you want to attract as your patient. So if you're looking to grow your 30 to 45 year old demographics within a certain zip code with Facebook, we can really, really target out who sees that ad to make sure that we're achieving your key goals are to grow the market within that targeted area. Speaker 4 (26:49): So yeah, you can really get like drill down to really your ideal patients. Speaker 3 (26:59): Absolutely, absolutely. You know, the good part about running Facebook ads is it's fairly inexpensive. I will say the rate, the return on Facebook ads, isn't near what it would be running Google ads. Big only because you've got to think with Google, we have 200,000 people searching for physical therapy near me with Facebook. We've taken that and we've really targeted down to kind of a small pocket of people that are going to be looking for that ad. Again, the Facebook ad is going to be like the Google ad. It's going to be beautiful pictures. It's going to be a nice call to action. It's going to be something that's going to engage them and want them to click on that ad to fill out that call to action form. Speaker 4 (27:41): Got it. And what are some big no-nos if you have big no-nos for, for Google ads or big no-nos for Facebook ads? Speaker 3 (27:51): You know, I think some of the big no-nos are over promising and under delivering on your ad. You know, when we talk about these ads, we really want to make sure that they don't go stale. So that's another big no-no that people don't really understand. So, and when we talk about an ad going stale, we actually talking about keeping some of those higher dollar keywords that aren't really searchable right now and taking them out if people really aren't looking for them, because as you pointed out in the example, if you've got a $58 per click and you've got 30 people or three people clicking on it, it's a stale keyword. It's still taking a lot of money from your ad dollars. So we really got, I think that's the biggest no-no here. And a lot of that is just us making sure that we're doing that for the customer. Speaker 4 (28:43): And what about Facebook ads? Any big no-nos there? Speaker 3 (28:47): You know, I think with Facebook ads, again, you just want to keep them simple. I think in this philosophy of life kiss, keep it simple. You know, with Facebook ads, a lot of our customers really want to get involved, almost tell a complete story in that Facebook ad. And you really, really want to use that ad as if I'm looking at this for two to three seconds, what am I going to get out of it? So I think a lot of people over-complicate their Facebook ads. And of course you lose your audience at that point, they should be able to in literally two seconds, scroll your ad, see your good call to action, who you are, what you're trying to accomplish and send that right over again, all of the aesthetics for either Google or Facebook should match your website. It should match your landing page. It should be that beautiful story that just carries over. Speaker 4 (29:38): Got it, got it. Well, this has been very, very informative and super helpful. Is there anything that we missed, anything that was on your list of, of talking points that we, Speaker 3 (29:53): I don't think so. You know, I think some of the things too, when people are looking at ads that I just wanted to mention here, because this is the biggest oversight I think is when we talk about running those Google ads, we talk about, of course, how much your cost per click is, how many conversions you're going to have a big number that people really overlook is what we call the impression. And the impression is people who actually went to your ad, but never filled out the ad form. And I think a lot of customers and, and, and practices overlook this number, but it's super important because this is part of your paid ads. That's pushing your brand. I've seen where I've been able to give for example, 10 leads, 10 plus leads to a particular practice, but they had 32,000 impressions. So if you could imagine 32,000 impressions of just looking at your ad or just looking at that Google directory that displays your ad, that's a huge number. So I think that's the biggest thing I just kind of wanted to touch on. When we look at running these ads, let's look at the impressions as well, because again, that's promoting your brand, Speaker 4 (31:07): Right? And like the way I look at it, and this may be completely wrong. Now that you said those well, 32,000 people looked at it, but only 10 people clicked. So do I have to change something? Is something not landing correctly? How do you, how do you interpret that? Speaker 3 (31:25): So we definitely want to, we, that's a great observation. So we definitely want to look generally their extra call to action. Was your call to action, not engaging enough. Was it not? I guess salesy that's, you know, I hate that word, but was it, was it not catchy enough that people were like, wait a minute, this is actually something that I want to look into. Speaker 4 (31:50): Got it. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. Cause I would think, Oh, why am I running these Google ads? Speaker 3 (31:56): Yeah. And of course we don't want to give up. Right, right. Yet the good thing is of course of the people that click on that ad, we then get to look at what that return on investment is. So of course, in physical therapy, you know, we look at, if we add five patients with 10 visits per patient, you've definitely reaped what you've paid for your ad service plus. So we definitely look at what that conversion rate is for you as well. Speaker 4 (32:27): What is this ad bringing back to us? So again, you're looking at how much you spent on the ad, how many people came in for initial eval and how many of those followed with their plan of care, whatever that plan of care may be. If it's, if you average six visits per patient, you know how much each visit costs, you can multiply that by however many patients you got from the ad. And if it made you profit great. If it didn't, I think you have to do some rejiggering there. Speaker 3 (33:00): Yep. Yep. We definitely need to either run a different campaign. We need to look at what, I guess why the wheel didn't spin properly here. One of the beautiful things of net health is that we tie certain KPIs. And if, if anyone isn't familiar key performance indicators to our ad module. So for example, Karen, if I told you, I'm going to bring you 10 patients every month and I don't meet that criteria for you, you're actually able to stop running ads with us. So we really put our feet to the fire to make sure that we're doing the right job. We're also doing what we said we were going to do in making sure that you're getting that return on investment for what you're giving us. Cause it's expensive, you know, act, I mean, add packages right now started a thousand dollars. So it's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. Are you getting that back? Speaker 4 (33:53): Absolutely. And that makes perfect sense. And now before we wrap things up, I have another question in a second, but I want people to find out where they can get more information on what you do, how they can get on board. So what is your call to action? Speaker 3 (34:12): Sure. So we're offering for anyone that's interested what we call that free business scan. So I'm going to go in for the practice. I'm going to run that free business scan. That's going to look at all of those search directories that we talked about earlier. I'm also going to look at, in that business scan, it shows how that practice compares to their competition. When we talk about reviews. So I'm offering a free business scan for anyone that is interested. I'd love to dive into that. Of course after that, I would definitely email that over. I would also love to offer a free forecasting call for any practices interested in running ads. Let's look at it, let's see if it even makes sense for you to run ads. I have to tell you, last month we walked away from three different practices where it just didn't make sense for us to run ads. So want to make sure that it's a good fit for both of us, Speaker 4 (35:03): Right? Well, that is awesome. And where can people get all of this? How can they yeah. Speaker 3 (35:09): Www.Net health.com and click on the digital marketing page. Perfect. Speaker 4 (35:16): Perfect. Well, that's great. I mean, yeah. Sign me up free. I would love that. So now last question is something that I ask everyone and knowing where you are now in your life and in your career, what advice would you give to your younger self? Speaker 3 (35:34): Oh, you know, Karen, that's such a good Speaker 4 (35:38): Question. I think it would just be slow down. Enjoy the martinis, enjoy the dog. Walks spend more time with your mom and dad. It's just literally just stopped going. And fifth years shifted down to second and learn how to live on cruise control for just a little while and be calm. Lovely advice. Thank you so, so much for coming on and talking to us about SEO and ads and for all of you PT entrepreneurs out there, head over to www.net health.com. Click on the marketing, digital marketing, digital marketing tab and get this free business scan free forecasting calling me. And that's huge for people to see, Hey, should I be, should I be running ads? Or if you are running ads, EEGs, are they working? Yikes. Well, Daniel, thank you so much. This was great. I really appreciate it. Thank you and everyone. Thanks so much for listening. Have a great week and stay healthy, wealthy and smart. Speaker 2 (36:43): Thanks to Daniel. And of course, things to net health for sponsoring today's episode again tomorrow, Tuesday, April 13th, 2:00 PM. Eastern standard time. Sign up for rehab therapy, outpatient services one Oh one. How to expand into home or assisted living facility with Ellen Strunk. And in order to do that head over to net health.com/lindsey to sign up type in Lindsay in the comment section net health, we'll buy lunch for your office once again. That's net health.com forward slash L I T Z Y. Sign up now. Speaker 1 (37:16): Thank you for listening and please subscribe to the podcast at podcast dot healthy, wealthy, smart.com. And don't forget to follow us on social media.    

Greetings and welcome to this bonus edition of the Reader: Take Note series, which I am releasing at day number 85. This is an occasional series aimed at providing extra commentary and encouragement for those following the Digging Deeper Daily reading plan. No matter where you are in the reading calendar, I hope that the things I share in this episode will support the idea that God’s Word has many treasures for us, and it always pays to dig deeper. My mistake from the last podcast was that I gave an incorrect author name for the book I recommended. The book is entitled How People Grow. One author is Dr. Henry Cloud. The second is Dr. John Townsend, not Towns. Glenn Lewis gets the prize so far this year for a mistake found in day number 70. I said while summarizing Numbers 3 that The 12,000 Levites were the substitute for Israel’s 12,273 first-born sons. Now the podcast has been corrected to say this: The 22,000 Levites became substitutes for Israel's 22,273 first-born sons. So the difference was between 12,000 and 22,000. Hey, I was only off by 10,000! If you have questions, comments, or find a mistake for me to correct, my favorite way for you to send messages to me is via the contact button at dailybiblereading.info. I’m always interested to hear your thoughts. For this episode I am not going to be talking about any of the passages we have read recently. If we were going by episode numbers, I should label this bonus episode as for Day 314 or 315, because the topic today is Daniel chapter 2. After my introduction of the topic, I will play the audio from my pastor’s sermon on that chapter from March the 7th, 2021. I think it is timely to share Dr. Tad Thompson’s sermon with you, as I consider this message so important for the time we are living in. Now, I am thankful for the timelessness of the Bible, so that things that I commented on as early as 2014 in the NLT series podcasts are still relevant. But back then, I had no idea of the huge changes that would take place in our culture, that we have come to see so clearly in the last few months. Tad’s sermon will give some contemporary perspective that I think will be helpful to all of you who listen to my podcasts. His sermon notes are included in the episode notes. The site where you can see recent sermon videos or listen to the audio is linked here in the episode notes: https://www.covenantsiloam.com/sermons Let me read all of Daniel 2 to you now from the God’s Word translation. Dan 2:1-6: 1 During the second year of Nebuchadnezzar’os reign, he had some dreams. He was troubled, but he stayed asleep. 2 The king sent for the magicians, psychics, sorcerers, and astrologers so that they could tell him what he had dreamed. So they came to the king. 3 The king said to them, “I had a dream, and I’m troubled by it. I want to know what the dream was.” 4 The astrologers spoke to the king in Aramaic, “Your Majesty, may you live forever! Tell us the dream, and we’ll interpret it for you.” 5 The king answered the astrologers, “I meant what I said! If you don’t tell me the dream and its meaning, you will be torn limb from limb, and your houses will be turned into piles of rubble. 6 But if you tell me the dream and its meaning, I will give you gifts, awards, and high honors. Now tell me the dream and its meaning.” Dan 2:7-18: 7 Once more they said, “Your Majesty, tell us the dream, and we’ll tell you its meaning.” 8 The king replied, “I’m sure you’re trying to buy some time because you know that I meant what I said. 9 If you don’t tell me the dream, you’ll all receive the same punishment. You have agreed among yourselves to make up a phony explanation to give me, hoping that things will change. So tell me the dream. Then I’ll know that you can explain its meaning to me.” 10 The astrologers answered the king, “No one on earth can tell the king what he asks. No other king, no matter how great and powerful, has ever asked such a thing of any magician, psychic, or astrologer. 11 What you ask is difficult, Your Majesty. No one can tell what you dreamed except the gods, and they don’t live with humans.” 12 This made the king so angry and furious that he gave an order to destroy all the wise advisers in Babylon. 13 So a decree was issued that the wise advisers were to be killed, and some men were sent to find Daniel and his friends and kill them. 14 While Arioch, the captain of the royal guard, was leaving to kill the wise advisers in Babylon, Daniel spoke to him using shrewd judgment. 15 He asked Arioch, the royal official, “Why is the king’s decree so harsh?” So Arioch explained everything to Daniel. 16 Daniel went and asked the king to give him some time so that he could explain the dream’s meaning. 17 Then Daniel went home and told his friends Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah about this matter. 18 He told them to ask the God of heaven to be merciful and to explain this secret to them so that they would not be destroyed with the rest of the wise advisers in Babylon. Dan 2:19-30: 19 The secret was revealed to Daniel in a vision during the night. So Daniel praised the God of heaven. 20 He said, “Praise God’s name from everlasting to everlasting because he is wise and powerful. 21 He changes times and periods of history. He removes kings and establishes them. He gives wisdom to those who are wise and knowledge to those who have insight. 22 He reveals deeply hidden things. He knows what is in the dark, and light lives with him. 23 God of my ancestors, I thank and praise you. You gave me wisdom and power. You told me the answer to our question. You told us what the king wants to know.” 24 Then Daniel went to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to destroy Babylon’s wise advisers. Daniel told him, “Don’t destroy Babylon’s wise advisers. Take me to the king, and I’ll explain the dream’s meaning to him.” 25 Arioch immediately took Daniel to the king. He told the king, “I’ve found one of the captives from Judah who can explain the dream’s meaning to you, Your Majesty.” 26 The king asked Daniel (who had been renamed Belteshazzar), “Can you tell me the dream I had and its meaning?” 27 Daniel answered the king, “No wise adviser, psychic, magician, or fortuneteller can tell the king this secret. 28 But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets. He will tell King Nebuchadnezzar what is going to happen in the days to come. This is your dream, the vision you had while you were asleep: 29 Your Majesty, while you were lying in bed, thoughts about what would happen in the future came to you. The one who reveals secrets told you what is going to happen. 30 This secret wasn’t revealed to me because I’m wiser than anyone else. It was revealed so that you could be told the meaning and so that you would know your innermost thoughts. Dan 2:31-49: 31 “Your Majesty, you had a vision. You saw a large statue. This statue was very bright. It stood in front of you, and it looked terrifying. 32 The head of this statue was made of fine gold. Its chest and arms were made of silver. Its stomach and hips were made of bronze. 33 Its legs were made of iron. Its feet were made partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 While you were watching, a stone was cut out, but not by humans. It struck the statue’s iron-and-clay feet and smashed them. 35 Then all at once, the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold were smashed. They became like husks on a threshing floor  in summer. The wind carried them away, and not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the statue became a large mountain which filled the whole world. 36 This is the dream. Now we’ll tell you its meaning. 37 “Your Majesty, you are the greatest king. The God of heaven has given you a kingdom. He has given you power, strength, and honor. 38 He has given you control over people, wild animals, and birds, wherever they live. He has made you ruler of them all. You are the head of gold. 39 Another kingdom, inferior to yours, will rise to power after you. Then there will be a third kingdom, a kingdom of bronze, that will rule the whole world. 40 There will also be a fourth kingdom. It will be as strong as iron. (Iron smashes and shatters everything.) As iron crushes things, this fourth kingdom will smash and crush all the other kingdoms. 41 You also saw the feet and toes. They were partly potters’ clay and partly iron. This means that there will be a divided kingdom which has some of the firmness of iron. As you saw, iron was mixed with clay. 42 The toes were partly iron and partly clay. Part of the kingdom will be strong, and part will be brittle. 43 As you saw, iron was mixed with clay. So the two parts of the kingdom will mix by intermarrying, but they will not hold together any more than iron can mix with clay. 44 “At the time of those kings, the God of heaven will establish a kingdom that will never be destroyed. No other people will be permitted to rule it. It will smash all the other kingdoms and put an end to them. But it will be established forever. 45 This is the stone that you saw cut out from a mountain, but not by humans. It smashed the iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold. The great God has told you what will happen in the future, Your Majesty. The dream is true, and you can trust that this is its meaning.” 46 King Nebuchadnezzar immediately bowed down on the ground in front of Daniel. He ordered that gifts and offerings be given to Daniel. 47 The king said to Daniel, “Your God is truly the greatest of gods, the Lord over kings. He can reveal secrets because you were able to reveal this secret.” 48 Then the king promoted Daniel and gave him many wonderful gifts. Nebuchadnezzar made Daniel governor of the whole province of Babylon and head of all Babylon’s wise advisers. 49 With the king’s permission, Daniel appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to govern the province of Babylon. But Daniel stayed at the king’s court. Tad’s sermon highlights what he calls a sandwich structure found in Daniel chapter 2. He wisely didn’t use the technical term, but if he did he would say that Daniel chapter 2 has a chiastic structure. This shows that Daniel carefully constructed this chapter. This sandwich structure of topics, as you will hear, can be represented by the letters A B C B A. (Bread on the top and bottom, and fixings on either side of the meat.) This chiastic structure is also the outline of Tad’s sermon, so I will list the 5 points, to help you follow them: (A) The Absence of Divine Revelation Reveals the Futility of the Pagan Nations (B) God’s People are Blessed with Divine Revelation (C) The Supremacy of a God Who Speaks (B) The Blessing of Divine Revelation is the Only Hope for Pagan Nations (A) Divine Revelation Reveals the Supremacy of the Kingdom of God Divine Revelation and the Supremacy of the Kingdom of God Tad Thompson Introduction: A Clash of Worldviews • What we see in Daniel Chapter 2 is an epic contest between the gods of the Babylonians and Daniel’s God, who is of course the one true God. • It is a clash of worldviews. Babylonian religion focused on nature. More then 2,500 different gods have been discovered in various texts and records and most of them has some correspondence to an aspect of nature, sun, moon, stars, the rain, wind, and weather. • In the pagan worldview of the ancient world and the rising paganism today have this in common, even though there may have been many gods - these gods were merely personifications of various aspects of nature. So paganism believes only in nature and denies the supernatural. It can be called “oneism • There is an impressive sunken garden in front of the Beinicke Rare Book Library on Yale University’s campus. It is meant to simulate the universe. A large marble pyramid stands in one corner, symbolizing time. Another corner sports a huge doughnut shaped structure standing on its side. It signifies energy. In a third corner is a huge die perched on one tip as if ready to topple any which way. It is the symbol of chance. This is the world view of modern man: ‘a self-existing universe consisting of energy, time and chance.’ And those in Babylon, ancient or modern, don’t know which way the die will fall. Chance is opaque. It is the world of whatever. • Biblical Christians think the Yale garden is a lie. They hold that there is a transcendent God who knows and orders the course of history down through the rise and rubble of nations until the days when he sets up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed (44). We can call the Christian worldview - twoism. There is a transcendent God who is the cause and creator of the universe and everything in it. An not only is he the creator God, but he is a God who speaks, who reveals mysteries. • Think about how unbearably sad Joe and Jane Pagan might be, for they go out their front door in the morning and have no idea where history is heading. This is the same dilemma faced by the wise men of Babylon, they have many gods, but none of them speak or reveal mysteries. • Our story has a structure that develops the main theme. It is an ABCBA structure. (A) The Absence of Divine Revelation Reveals the Futility of the Pagan Nations (2:1-13) • King N wants his wise men to tell him his dream, he wants them to know his thoughts, he desires more than an interpretation, he desires revelation. • vs. 10-11 is the key to understanding the dilemma of the enchanters - “There is not a man on earth who can meet the king’s demand, for no great and powerful king has asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or Chaldean. 11 The thing that the king asks is difficult, and no one can show it to the king except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.” • They can’t do it because their gods don’t reveal anything, they do not dwell with flesh, communicate with flesh and they can’t because they are inanimate objects. • We see this is the world today where people choose to worship the created rather than the creator. People have abandoned the notion of twoism - they have no authority outside of self, so they seek to discover truth by looking within and they consistently come up empty handed - there is no absolute truth to be discovered that will satisfy your soul a part from divine revelation. (B) God’s People are Blessed with Divine Revelation (2:14-19) • The next scene in the story contrasts the worldview of Daniel and his companions with the worldview of the wise men of Babylon. • Daniel wisely asks Arioch for an appointment with the King, and promises that he will be able to tell Neb. his dream - and then what do they do? They pray, they seek mercy from the Lord and believe that he is a God that interacts with his people and has the capacity to reveal hidden mysteries. • Notice that the purpose of asking for this divine revelation is so that they will not be destroyed. • Is this not the heart of the Gospel? That God reveals the mysteries of his grace in the person and work of Jesus Christ that we might escape the wrath of God to come. • You are a Christian because you have been blessed with divine revelation - I Pet 1:23-25 “since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; 24 for “All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.” • We are people who believe that God has spoken to us, revealed himself to us - this is why we stand upon the inerrancy, sufficiency, and authority of Scripture! It is God’s Word that marks us out as His people! (C) The Supremacy of a God Who Speaks (2:20-23) • vs. 20-23 is Daniel’s prayer of praise to God for answering his prayer. • This forms the center of the story and ultimate message of chapter 2 - The God of the Bible is Supreme because he is a God who speaks. • Notice some of the core elements of Daniel’s Worldview: a. God is a God of wisdom and might b. God is sovereign over nature and nations c. God is a God who knows all things and reveals all things. The contrast between the pagan notion of oneism is astounding - if your worldview is basically time, energy, and random chance then your life has no intrinsic value, worth or meaning. We are seeing this played out in the world today. We live in a world that is literally destroying every ounce of human dignity left by denying the fact of gender - this is the ultimate form of self worship - it is paganism 101. Daniel praises his God who speaks while the wise men are going - the gods don’t dwell with flesh they got nothing - our God is such a speaking God that he came into the world to take on flesh - as the ultimate word, the ultimate truth - he took on flesh to reveal God to us! To reveal God’s love to us! To offer God’s forgiveness to us! (B) The Blessing of Divine Revelation is the Only Hope for Pagan Nations (2:24) • vs 24 is paired with 14-19 - God’s people are blessed with divine revelation, therefore divine revelation is the only hope for the pagan nations. • The word of God given to Daniel spares the wise men of Babylon. • This points to the Christian mission of declaring the mysteries of God to the nations. • Paul writes in Col 1:24-29 “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, 26 the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. 27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. 29 For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me.” (A) Divine Revelation Reveals the Supremacy of the Kingdom of God (2:25-49) • This final section is paired with the first - it highlights once again, in graphic detail the futility of the pagan nations and the supremacy of the Kingdom of God. • The purpose of the dream is not for us to figure out which literal nations are being referred to in the dream. The point of the dream is vs. 44-45 - the God of heaven, the God who has given N. his present Kingdom (vs. 37) will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed and will fill the entire earth. • vs 46 - something amazing happens, the most powerful man in the world bows to honor an exiled slave and N. promotes Daniel and his friends. • This is so important for us to remember as we live as exiles in the world - the supremacy of the kingdom of God. • Revelation 5 - One Day Every knee will bow, the knee of every ruler will bow to Jesus - a crucified Jewish carpenter will receive the worship of Kings. Right now, in heaven, there is a multitude of those who have been redeemed from the nations who worship Jesus. How will you live - will you live as one who worships the God who speaks or will you live your life by time, energy, and random chance?    

Pros and Cons of Leveraging Time vs Money (LA 1466) Transcript: Steven Butala:Steve and Jill here. Jill DeWit:Hello. Steven Butala:Welcome to the Land Academy show, entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill DeWit:And I'm Jill DeWit, broadcasting from sizzling Scottsdale, Arizona. Steven Butala:Today, Jill and I talk about the pros and cons of leveraging your time versus money. Before we get into it, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free, and if you're already a member, join us on Discord. Seriously, join us on Discord. Jill DeWit:Okay. In case you can't tell, he's got a little bit of a thing for this Discord. It's a little unhealthy. There's no money involved. It takes a lot of time on his part. Just kidding. You love it. Steven Butala:Really Clubhouse? Jill DeWit:I was waiting for that. We each have our new favorites. Isn't that hilarious? I'm like, "All right, you represent us on Discord. You just have a blast. Let me know if there's anything interesting. And I'll take the Clubhouse thing and that's fun." So, it's perfect. Steven Butala:It's funny you bring up unhealthy because somebody said, and it turned into this huge thing. Somebody said, "I listen to X while I'm scrubbing data." And it just became a whole thing, and it unraveled about what people listen to and all their unhealthy weird habits about how they crunch data to get it ready for a mailer and when they do it and where they do it in their house. I listen to the band Tool extremely loud when no one else is around while I'm scrubbing data. And everyone's like, "You think that's weird, then," fill in the blank. Jill DeWit:That's hilarious. Steven Butala:It became this thing, like we are not healthy, normal people. Jill DeWit:That's true. Steven Butala:We're all these weird data people that are ... That's what I love about discord. And no one's afraid of that. We're all serious geeks, is what it is. Jill DeWit:Yeah. It's a support group. That's it. If you're struggling to find friends because you are weird too, you can find them in Discord and you can all just have a great time together. Mom, I have friends. Leave me alone. Steven Butala:Yeah. You know what it is? It's like this age, this is our video game. Jill DeWit:It is. Yeah. Steven Butala:The kids get on the line and- Jill DeWit:So they're playing with the thing and then the talking. This is your version of you're doing that while you're scrubbing data. Steven Butala:It's great. Jill DeWit:Oh, this is hilarious. The grown-up version of gaming with your friends. All right. Back to the question. Daniel wrote, "I'm in negotiations with a seller for a $1 million acquisition price for a bulk purchase of multiple properties. I need help pricing from a local realtor, but I'm hesitant to give them all the information since I do not yet have a signed purchase agreement. Is this something you'd be cautious with?" Yeah, I would. Totally. Steven Butala:Whatever you say, I'm going to agree with you on this. Jill DeWit:Get a signed purchase agreement. There's no reason- Steven Butala:Jill has a, and correctly so, has a peeve about not signed purchase agreements. You're not doing anything wrong in any way here, Daniel. It's a good question. Jill likes signed purchase agreements. Jill DeWit:Well, for two reasons. Here's reason number one. So Daniel, you're going to sleep better. I would even take it so far if you're really worried, take the signed purchase agreement, give it to an escrow agent and say, "Give me an escrow number. And even though we can all change our minds, I just want to have a number that it's started the process," because that's good faith moving forward. Steven Butala:This is extremely important, what she's saying, in my opinion. Jill DeWit:And as far as an agent's involved, you're in escrow. It's like a hands-off kind of thing. Even though all you have is a number and nobody's done anything,

Part seven of our series, "Kingdoms In Conflict: A Study of the Book of Daniel." Study Questions 1. How is the life of following God a long obedience in the same direction? 2. What does it mean to live as a pilgrim and a disciple? A life of excellence in service Then this Daniel becamedistinguished above allthe other high officials andsatraps, becausean excellent spirit was in him. And the king plannedto set him over the whole kingdom. -Daniel 6:3 1. Why do the way that we work and our attitude toward our work matter to God? 2. What do you find difficult about seeing your work, whatever it might be, as service to the Lord? 3. What could it actually look like to go about your work, social life, other stations of life for the glory of God? 4. How can the way we live spread the fragrance of the knowledge of Christ? Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. Colossians 3:23-24 But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. 2 Corinthians 2:14 A life of conviction and integrity Thenthe high officials andthe satrapssought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom,but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful,and no error or fault was found in him. -Daniel 6:4 1. Where in your personal and professional life is there temptation to violate your Christian convictions? What keeps you strong in temptation? When/why are you more susceptible to giving in? 2. What do you consider a life of integrity? How do our lives sometimes fail to match up with who we claim to be and what we claim to believe? 3. In our sinful world and personal imperfection, what does it mean to live an upright and blameless life? 4. What daily practices will help us grow in conviction and integrity? Whoever walks in integrity walks securely,but he who makes his ways crookedwill be found out. -Proverbs 10:9 A life of relentlessly seeking God When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house wherehe had windows in his upper chamber opentoward Jerusalem. He got down on his kneesthree times a day and prayed andgave thanks before his God, as he had done previously.Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. -Daniel 6:10-11 1. What does our prayer life indicate about our level of dependence on God? 2. How does God mature us in discipleship through prayer? 3. What is typically the content of your prayers? Is there a balance of thanksgiving, petition and plea? 4. Do you have set disciplines to foster growth in your knowledge of God and delight in Him, or does drifting more accurately describe your spiritual life? One aspect of [our] world that I have been able to identify as harmful to Christians is that anything worthwhile can be acquired at once. We assume that if something can be done at all, it can be done quickly and efficientlyThere is a great market for religious experience in our world; there is little enthusiasm for the patient acquisition of virtue, little inclination to sign up for a long apprenticeship in what earlier generations of Christians called holiness. -Eugene Peterson. Trust in the saving power of a faithful God Then Daniel said to the king,O king, live forever!My Godsent his angeland shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blamelessbefore him;and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, andno kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. -Daniel 6:21-23 1. Where have you seen the faithfulness of God at work in the book of Daniel so far? 2. What does it mean that Daniel was rescued from harm because he was found blameless before God, had done no harm to the king, and had trusted in his God? 3. How would you encourage someone who is struggling through a difficult season and is calling out to God, but their circumstance doesnt seem to be changing? 4. How does Gods promise to save all who trust in Him give you confidence and hope for life today? I make a decree, that in all my royal dominionpeople are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel, forhe isthe living God,enduring forever;his kingdom shall never be destroyed,and his dominion shall beto the end.He delivers and rescues;he workssigns and wondersin heaven and on earth,he who hassaved Danielfrom the power of the lions. -Daniel 6:26-27 For prayer and reflection: At the end of your life, what would you like your legacy to be? What would you consider a faithful and fruitful life in service to God? What do you need to do now to start cultivating that? What areas of your life do you need to recognise as areas God has placed you in for His glory? Where have your personal and private life not matched up? Are there sinful thoughts or habits that you have allowed to creep in that need to be killed before they grow? As the Spirit leads, write down practical, intentional actions you are going to put in place starting now. Share them with someone and commit them to the Lord in prayer. It is not about performance or trying to earn favour with God, every one of us falls short in this. Daniel was powerless to save himself from the lions, completely dependent on the mercy of God, as we are powerless to save ourselves from sin and death. It is all of grace. Be encouraged as you take steps walking forward in greater faithfulness to God, knowing that His grace is sufficient in our weakness. Persevere knowing that in life and death He will never leave your side, and take courage knowing that He, the founder and perfector of our faith, the one who began a good work in [us] will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ (Phil.1:6). He is the living God, the King on the throne of the Kingdom that will endure forever, and He welcomes us to be part of that Kingdom Glory to God! Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, andsin which clings so closely, andlet us runwith endurance the race that isset before us,looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith,who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despisingthe shame, andis seated at the right hand of the throne of God Thereforelift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees,andmake straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of jointbut rather be healed.Strive for peace with everyone, and for theholinesswithout which no one will see the Lord.Hebrews 12:1-2, 12-14

Day 8 – Lenten Prayer and Reflection – 1st March 2021   This morning we have readings from the book of Daniel and also from the gospel of St. Luke. Before we go into that, the Lord is speaking to us through Daniel about the attitude and nature of our mind He is calling us to have. If you look at the book of Daniel, it is a book about a person in exile. Daniel was a foreigner, Daniel was in exile, Daniel was at the mercy of the king. That's how he was called to live his life. We will think that this was only the story of Daniel. But the reality is this is the story of every Christian, of you and me. We are people in exile, living away from the promised land. Our home is in heaven and we await that home, and therefore we are called to have the same attitude, life and heart that Daniel had. In fact Philippians 3:20 tells us our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a Saviour from there, the Lord Jesus Christ. This tells us very clearly we do not belong here. So often people say, why don't you apply to Australia? Why don't you get your green card? Why don't you move away? We think it's going to be a lovely time if we go away, happily ever after. But we know as we travel all over the world, that everywhere people have the same problems, the same difficulties, the same challenges to face and it's never a greener pasture, but every family goes through different problems. In fact I just spoke to a person last night who said for 10 years he was in love, got married, went abroad and within a few months the family broke up. So he would have thought going abroad would have been the best idea possible but when they went there they had to face challenges. Anyway, we are Christians in exile. What happened to Daniel? Daniel had been taken by King Nebuchadnezzar from Jerusalem and placed in Babylon. The king had asked for the best people, the cleverest, the most handsome, the most promising people and he had taken them all away and placed them under his care in the palace in Babylon. They were supposed to eat a certain food, they were supposed to be nourished and they were supposed to provide the king with answers to well his problems. This was the life Daniel went through. But if you look at the book of Daniel, he went through different kinds of experiences. The king would suddenly build a statue or see a dream and then he would have to answer the dream. Suddenly there would be writing on the wall -- different kinds of experiences in every chapter. As we come to chapter 9 that's a place where they say it's a pause for prayer. In that chapter, Daniel devotes his time to prayer and that is the chapter we have been given today, where Daniel pauses in prayer to God. Before we go into that chapter, there are certain things we can learn from Daniel as he lived in exile in Babylon under the king. First of all, do not be impressed by applause or gifts. Daniel was there, he began to answer questions, he began to reveal mysteries and the king promised him this and that. But here was a person who was not impressed, whose heart and mind was fixed on God. That is reflected in the reading for today. His mind was fixed on God, he knew his salvation was in the God of heaven and not in the king. He was never impressed with what the king had to promise him. When the king asked for him to be fed very well, but he did not want to defile himself, and therefore they had their special food which they ate and they never drank the wine, and it is said that it was found that Daniel and his friends were ten times more filled with wisdom and healthier that the other people who were fed all the kings rations and food. There was a distinct favour of God upon Daniel, because he always fixed his gaze on God. Secondly, do not be intimidated by the world's threats. Each time the king had a dream, or saw something, or was told that "Daniel has mocked your gods," the king came forward and said, "I'm going to throw you to lions, I am going to kill you" but Daniel was never intimidated by threats. He always turned to God and sought answers in God.   Then, do not be infected by religious practices, what people do. For example, we know in Sri Lanka if a boy wants to get a girl in an office, the first thing he has to do is spike her drink with something or with some charm, and get her together. Then she falls in love with him, he takes her and they are supposed to be happily married. But recently I saw a testimony where a certain person charmed a girl and they got married and the family life began happily, but within four months the charm wore off and the girl wanted to break up the family. If we live according to the world's behaviour, ways or practices, we will never be happy, there will never be a lasting solution. So Daniel also was invited to worship this god and that god, but he stuck to the living God. Don't get caught up by gifts, do not be intimidated by the threats you receive, and do not follow the practices of others but follow the living God. Finally, we are called to be God's partners, in whatever we do, we seek God's face and we partner with God to do what He wants us to do. Here Daniel, like a movie, suddenly he's going through a problem, suddenly he's going through a threat, suddenly he's thrown to lions, suddenly he has to go and kill dragon, and in all this he was partnering with God, and in certain moments God revealed Himself to him in all glory as God saved him from these situations. It is said in the last book of Daniel, where he was in the pit with lions, that the prophet Habakkuk was sent and he dropped in a certain food because Daniel was for seven days with the lions and this prophet dropped in a little preparation of food for him to drink and to survive in the lion's pit. As Daniel partnered with God, he saw the glory of God, and God was in love with him and God was with him in that experience. We also see this in Exodus 3:7-8. Exodus 3:7-8 The Lord said, "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. This word tells us that today, if we are going through some bad experience, if we are going through some brokenness, if we are going through some suffering, there is a God, who is looking at our misery, who is hearing our cry, who is seeing our tears and He is concerned about our suffering. This was the experience of the Israelites in the desert, and this was the experience of Daniel in the lion's den, and in every experience he had, where he depended upon on the living God. As I said, Daniel reminds us that although God may sometimes allow us to suffer, He is always at hand, always able to free us, He sometimes offers us a glimpse of His coming glory. It is said, that the book of Daniel is also a book of revelation, prophecy about the future. If you look at it with the book of Revelation, there are different things about the future, about the Son of Man, and it's mystical, at the same time, it is a call for us and a teaching for us, how to live our journey with the Lord. What does the Christian do in exile? How does he live? Does he complain? Does he cry? Does he blame the others for what he's going through? No, he seeks the heart and mind of Christ. And today's readings are all about seeking the heart and mind of Christ. During this time of lent, we seek the heart and mind of Jesus. Let's go to the readings. It's taken from Daniel 9:4-10. It is Daniel pausing for prayer because we have all kinds of experiences throughout Daniel, and when you come to chapter 9, Daniel begins to pray a long prayer.   Daniel 9:4 I prayed to the Lord my God and confessed: "O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with all who love him and obey his commands, The first line says, "I prayed to the Lord my God and confessed." In fact the first song we sang today was, "Come, now is the time." Confess that He's God, that song asks us to confess. So confess does not just mean to go for confession or to confess your sins, but give the truth and say, "Lord, You are God. Lord, You are in control. This Monday morning as I begin my week, as I face challenges, I'm here Lord, and time is moving and I have to leave for work, but I confess You are God. That You are in control of every situation I am going to face. You are in control of every decision I make today and during this week. We confess." Generally we can confess, "Oh my God, so much of suffering. So many things to do, I don't know where to stand, where to go." Or we can confess as Daniel confessed. What did he confess? He said, "O Lord, the great and awesome God." He didn't say, "Oh Lord my schedule is so busy, my problems are so big." He confessed that God is great and awesome. He confessed that God is bigger than his situation. That God is greater than his challenges, that God is above everything he's facing. And this is the first principle of a renewed mind, we are called to have a renewed mind. We can go to God giving our list of problems, list of challenges, but this morning as you stand before God, you tell Him, "Oh God, great and mighty God, you are above it all, you are my King of Kings, you are my Lord of Lords and you are still in control." I remember when I had a problem and I was called to the immigration and I was told, "Buy your ticket and leave this country." The verse that came from the word said, "Not by flight. You will not leave this country by flight, you will be here." So I had innumerous threats over two years but I never had the need to leave the country and go away. Though they called me every time and said, "Where is your ticket? Why didn't you leave?" The word said, no, God is greater. God is above and God is in control. The first principle of a renewed mind is to acknowledge that God is greater. Do not try to deal with the crisis first. So often we are in love with the crisis. "Oh I have this problem, I have that problem. I cannot pay this" -- we're looking at the problem, we are loving the problem, we're embracing the problem, we are living with the problem, but we are called to fix our gaze on God, turn your gaze to the living God who has an answer. He knows you are in exile, He knows you feel like a stranger, He knows you have nowhere to turn to and He is in love with you. In the book of Daniel, God says, in the next chapter, that He loves Daniel. That He cares for Daniel. It was not just a God who came and did powerful things, it was a God who was in love with Daniel. The first chapter says, God's favour was on Daniel. His favour, His mercy. This morning as we go through this ancient reading, God is telling you: "My favour and love are with you. You may feel you are in exile, but I love you and I care for you." So if the crisis is coming to you, refuse to deal with it first. Refuse to deal with the crisis -- you have no answers. But go to the feet of the Lord and struggle with your human nature, which says there are no answers, there is no way forward. Have that struggle before the Lord. This was the same experience of Nehemiah as he was faced with the struggle and had to build the wall, he went to the Lord and he acknowledged the greatness of God. Remember who God is. God is above. God is able. With God all things are possible, and that's what you must be confessing. How can you confess it if your mind is not renewed? How do you renew your mind? By looking at the word, but looking at the life of Daniel, by reading the life of Nehemiah and the life of other people in the word of God. As we read the word of God our mind gets renewed.   I remember about a month ago on YouTube there is a video of an Iranian woman and man who came to experience the Lord. It was a long journey, but the beautiful part of it was they were staunch Muslim and that was their background. They had all the arguments, they knew in theory that the Bible had all the answers, that Jesus Christ was the Saviour, but they couldn't get themselves to accept this word. But when they had moved to Toronto and they were living alone in an apartment, husband and wife, and they had time on hand and they had to find their way forward, that's when they began to read the word of God. It is said, they read the word of God from 5 in the evening to 7 in the morning the next day. The whole night, they just lapped up the word of God. They never knew English, so they had the dictionary beside them, they were looking at words -- if you said the word Revelation, they would open the book and see what's the meaning of revelation. Every word they had to find that English meaning. But in a few days, as they began reading the word of God, first the man felt a presence in the room, and he just burst out crying and he experienced the power of the word of God, and his mind was renewed. And the wife said, "You know Lord, if you can do that to him, you can do that to me." Two days later, as she read the word of God like that, suddenly when she came to 1 John 1, and that chapter about God's love -- "While we were sinners God loved us -- as she read about that, she burst out crying and she experienced the presence of the living God. How do you renew your mind? How can you become a person like Nehemiah or Daniel? But looking at the promises, by reading the word of God, and spending time with Him. You will begin to think like them, you'll begin to respond to situations like Daniel and Nehemiah. So in this case, first, Daniel talks about the greatness of God. "Oh, Lord, great and awesome God." And it was the same with Nehemiah who said, "Remember who God is." Do not cling to your problem, to your situation, but turn and look at the greatness of God. He is greater than my problem. This morning as you think of a challenge you are facing, as you think of a person suffering and you're praying for, speak to that problem and say, "My God is greater than that issue. My God is alive, my God has the answers, and my God can do wonders." Daniel 9:5 We have sinned and done wrong. We have been wicked and have rebelled; we have turned away from your commands and laws. As Nehemiah did, Daniel is repenting. He's repenting for himself, for his country men and country women. If you look at that glass in the darkness, the water will seem so pure, so clean, like American drinking water, as they say it in the cans. But when you take that glass and as you hold it close to a source of light, you will see particles moving in that supposedly clean water. You'll see little particles. And that tells us as we go closer to the light, as we go deeper into the presence of God, we begin to see our sinfulness. We begin to see our true nature. Until then we say, "No no, I have no sin. I'm great, I never criticize people, I love everyone. I'm good. I'm so holy, I do my prayers," but as you go into the presence of God, God will reveal to you your nature, the way you speak. Everything will become very clear to you and that's when you will be called to repent. He knew his people. He must have been a person who was praying but generally not living with a transformed mind. Don't waste your time repenting about your husband or wife or child. Repent for the wrong you have done. Whenever we have a crisis this person has caused the breakup. Do not look at the other person. You also had a role to play and your mind is not open to it. Do not pin the blame.   The way you do it, your mind is not open to it. Therefore, do not pin the blame on somebody else, but accept your part in this problem. The second reality of how to handle a crisis, like in the second verse of Daniel, don't offer excuses and say, "I want to kill myself because of this person or that person." Don't offer excuses. But deal with your own sin. Repent of your sin. When I got for confession, before I enter, I always say, "Holy Spirit remind me of my sin." And lo and behold, the entire download happens. You actually want to forget your sinfulness. You do not want to tell the priest everything, but when you say "Spirit of God, reveal to me my sin," immediately, everything begins to fall into your mind, you begin to see the movie, you begin to be reminded of all the moments when you sinned. When you practice that and say, "Spirit of God remind me of my sinfulness," you will see how low you have fallen. Sometimes we tell the Lord, "Lord I am going through this because of that person. Because of that rotter, this is my life." But this morning, we are going to say, "Lord I repent for the wrongdoings of my family members, of my community, of the world. I repent of what is happening." Sometimes when we look at the television and see this person has murdered 10 people or this person has killed so many people, or this has happened, we always find fault. But let's say, "Lord have mercy. Have mercy on him, have mercy on his victims. Have mercy on us." If I never had a renewed mind I would have done the same. I would have fallen into the same pit. Recently I saw the story of a woman who was called out and she was living as a slave in Africa to a certain man and she had a life of prostitution. But as she related her story, she had gone through so much of suffering. Somebody had promised her a job, she was taken and to a place called Togo, and she thought she was going to earn US dollars in a beautiful job, but actually she was taken to join a prostitution ring. And from then on, she was taken to another place, again promised help, taken to another place and again used. And again taken to another country and used as a drug carrier. She says when she went to the customs, she was so broken she told the customs, "I think I'm carrying drugs," she admitted, and she received a seven year sentence. And that was her life. So when she shared her testimony, she was actually weeping, crying and speaking. We often think a prostitute is a terrible person with a horrible life, but that person only knows the pain they are going through, how they got into in, what their story is and we must have mercy as we deal with them. We must have love as we deal with such sinfulness. Not say, "Oh my gosh, my life is so clean, their lives are so bad," but no, have mercy as we look at them. Daniel 9:9 The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him; Like in Nehemiah, what is Daniel doing? He is remembering what God has promised. God has promised that He is merciful and loving. God is great and awesome and then we have sinned against Him, and the third remembrance, God has promised to be merciful, to be loving. You have promised Lord to be merciful because You understand us, You see our weakness, You see how low we have fallen. And You have made us, You have created us, and You are still in love with us, and therefore we have hope. So this morning, as we look at the Lord and as we say He is merciful and loving, we know that we can approach Him. Very often many of us invite people to come for the prayer meeting, and there are a few cases where people say, "How can I come to God? I have been living in sin. I can't come right now because I am dealing with some sin of mine, so I will not come. So many friends who do not want to come for the prayer meeting or to experience God's love because maybe they are holding onto that sin and they feel   they are so unworthy that they will never be able to experience the greatness and goodness of God. But the point is, God is merciful, God is calling us, let's go to Him. Let's experience His favour. We can approach Him, we can go to Him. If you renew your mind with the revelation of scripture, you won't hide from God, you won't waste days and months running through your own thinking patterns. You allow the scripture to form how you handle events, you keep doing this. It's all about renewing your mind, transforming your mind. Now, you can't do it, because certain people believe for example, it's all in the mind. That if they make a decision, it's going to happen. But it's beyond that. So often, if somebody has an argument with you, what happens? Are you able to go to sleep? Are you able to say, "Mind, please shut down now. I want to rest"? We all know, that our minds keep on playing back the argument. "He said this, she said that, this one said this, and then I am going to tell them that, and this is going to happen" and we have this entire conversation going on and we are never able to rest after a fight. Are you able to sleep? No, it becomes difficult. It's the same with me. We cannot control our mind, just like a horse going on a ride. It's just galloping and galloping and talking away and chatting away. But with the grace of God, as we turn to the scripture, that's when the peace of God takes over and we experience the rest of God. This was Daniel's prayer, like Nehemiah, as he accepted the greatness of God, he repented for his sin, and then he approached God and said, "Lord, these are your promises. You are merciful and therefore I am able to approach you." In the gospel, Jesus is talking to us about our internal responses. Here, Daniel is telling God, "You are so great". And Daniel is saying, "Lord forgive us" and all of these things, but in his own life, is he showing the same mercy around him, is he sharing the same love? So you can be saying, "I'm saying Daniel's prayer" or "I am doing the Nehemiah prayer" but what is your internal journey, and what was the internal journey of the Lord Jesus. What did Jesus say? This is what was reflected in the gospel. Luke 6:36-37 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. You can saying Nehemiah's prayer, Daniel's prayer, but internally how have you been dealing with people around you? What is your nature? The transformed nature and attitude of Jesus was this. This is what he tells us. He tells us, "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful." Here you are crying out to God and saying, "Lord, God, King of Kings. Have mercy on me." But have you shown the same mercy to people around you? Lent is a moment when we come back to God, when we retreat from the world and come into the presence of God, and we search our heart to see where we have fallen. And the Lord is telling us, "Be merciful, just as the Father has been merciful." God has been good to you. Do you think, if you are person who is praying, if you are a person reading the scripture, that it is by your own merit? Because you spend time in prayer, because you did that? Imagine if dryness comes over you, where does your journey go? You'll have nothing to say. So God in His mercy has given you an experience of His love, He has drawn you with cords of love, as the word of God tells us. He has touched your heart, He has renewed you, He has given you the grace to pray and spend time with Him, it is nothing about you. It is His love for you. It is the spirit that has descended upon you and drawn you into a relationship with Him. And therefore, that has been the mercy of God. We cannot point our finger and say, "I spend time in prayer, see these people   they don't pray." The gift of prayer that you have is from God. God has blessed you with that gift. God has been good to you. Be merciful, just as the heavenly Father has been merciful to you. Then it says something really extreme: "Do not condemn and you will not be condemned." Imagine, what is condemnation? It's almost saying, "Go and die. Go and be killed. I do not want to see you again." It's an extreme form of talking, or thinking. Condemning a person. You condemn a person to what? To a beach resort? No, you condemn a person to the gallows. I person has to be hanged over there. So often, we are in the journey, experiencing the love of God, and yet we are condemning people. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. The seriousness of our actions, the way we speak, the way we journey with God, living in the life of God, experiencing His love, and condemning people. We say "go to hell" and when we condemn that person we are condemning ourselves. That's why it says, when we stand before God, and He reviews our life, our own sin will speak to us, will condemn us. It's not God saying, "You have sinned! Son you have come here but your life is a mess." As we look at the goodness of God, we see the poverty of our spirit. We see how far we have fallen. As we see His purity we see our impurity. Like St. Peter said "My Lord and my God." He knelt before him, because as he saw the magnanimity, the greatness of God, he saw his littleness. This is the experience of spirituality. Not, "I am this, I am that, I have done this, I have achieved this." As we go closer to God, we see how great He is and how small we are. As we experience His purity, we see how impure we can be. This should be our experience, and therefore He is calling us to live a life of showing mercy. When you go to the carpark of a supermarket, somebody comes and says, "Sir, buy this thing", and you can condemn the person and say, "Oh, these people are all cheats." Or we can just have mercy, "Lord, you have fed me, clothed me, You have given me a meal, in Your mercy I will just share. I will not condemn." This is what God is calling us to do, to show mercy and not to condemn. Thirdly, he says, "forgive and you will be forgiven." The lack of forgiveness is like a bondage. You are held with your arms in shackles. And when you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. That's crystal clear. If you you cannot forgive, you will not be forgiven. It's reciprocal. If you do not take the chance to forgive a person, release the person, you are not being released. Therefore, you're telling God, "I'm all doing all these prayers, I'm doing the Four Steps, I'm doing Nehemiah's prayer, I'm praying all of this nothing is happening. My prayers are not being answered." God is saying, "Look into your life." This is the time of lent, look into your life. The more you begin to forgive, the more you are being forgiven. You are holding yourself at ransom, you are holding yourself in bondage, you are holding yourself with hands tied and saying, "Lord, why? Why is this happening?" This morning, as you are forgiving, as you are offering forgiveness, you are being forgiven. Now we come to the most important verse in this, which a lot of people love. It says: "Give, and it will be given to you." All of us think in terms of money, "Oh if I give this, I am going to get that" and we get so excited. But God is not just talking about giving money, he's talking about giving mercy. He already set the tone, giving forgiveness. He's talking about giving glory to God, giving all of that. And as you give that to God, as you give your pain to Him he begins to release you, He begins to bless you. Luke 6:38 Give and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. It's just telling us the nature of a person surrendered to God. If something has to be poured into your lap, it means you are not running after something. Like you're given something and you're waiting for it to   come. But you're searching everywhere. If you are searching everywhere it cannot be poured into your lap. It means you are seated, you are sitting somewhere and it is being poured over you, or into your lap. If you're running everywhere looking for the answer, it's falling off you, you're losing this opportunity. You're giving and then you are waiting. And you're not looking for answers, you're not searching, you're giving repentance, you're releasing people. And God is giving back to you. The grace of God is being poured into your life and you are experiencing His power and mercy. Luke 6:38 Give and you will be given a good measure, pressed over full and running over. For the measure you give, will be the measure you receive back. There's one little verse in Philippians which talks about this mentality that God is calling us to have today. This is the spirituality we are called to. Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always I will say it again rejoice. That's why we began this time of prayer with a song of praise, because first of all God is asking us to come and rejoice. Philippians 4:5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. We can react, we can angry, we can blame, but let your gentleness be evident, the Lord is near, the Lord is with us, the Lord is for us. Philippians 4:6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. We've heard Thaththa preaching about this before. It's a teaching by itself. But, it's just telling us about our mind. "Do not be anxious but in prayer and petition, with Thanksgiving, present them to God." Give them to God, give Him all you're going through. Like Nehemiah and Daniel. And what is the result of this? Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God which transcends all understanding... Your way of thinking, your way of working out things is on this level. And the peace of God, is above it all, which transcends all understanding: Philippians 4:7 will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. This morning we spoke about having a renewed mind and heart in Christ Jesus. We saw the example of Daniel and Nehemiah, as they lived, as they faced different experiences, and as they saw the power of God in their life situations, they were able to achieve and do things. And then we saw, in the gospel, what   was Jesus' internal nature, his nature was, "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do." He was a person who showed mercy, who showed love, who did not condemn. The nature of Jesus was to show mercy, to show love, not condemn. Give his life, not just give money. And this is our call today. If we want to have a renewed mind, if we want to have the peace that passes all understanding, God is calling us to come into His presence to look at His greatness, to repent of our sin, and to experience the power of His glory.

Weekly Bible Study with Scott (February 2nd, 2021) *** Just because you may be in the Lion's den doesn't mean you give up, it is not over until God says it over! Daniel 6:10–23 (NKJV) 10Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went home. And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down on his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom since early days. 11Then these men assembled and found Daniel praying and making supplication before his God. 12And they went before the king, and spoke concerning the king's decree: “Have you not signed a decree that every man who petitions any god or man within thirty days, except you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which does not alter.” 13So they answered and said before the king, “That Daniel, who is one of the captives from Judah, does not show due regard for you, O king, or for the decree that you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14And the king, when he heard these words, was greatly displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him; and he labored till the going down of the sun to deliver him. 15Then these men approached the king, and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is the law of the Medes and Persians that no decree or statute which the king establishes may be changed.” 16So the king gave the command, and they brought Daniel and cast him into the den of lions. But the king spoke, saying to Daniel, “Your God, whom you serve continually, He will deliver you.” 17Then a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the signets of his lords, that the purpose concerning Daniel might not be changed. 18Now the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; and no musicians were brought before him. Also his sleep went from him. 19Then the king arose very early in the morning and went in haste to the den of lions. 20And when he came to the den, he cried out with a lamenting voice to Daniel. The king spoke, saying to Daniel, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22My God sent His angel and shut the lions' mouths, so that they have not hurt me, because I was found innocent before Him; and also, O king, I have done no wrong before you.” 23Now the king was exceedingly glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no injury whatever was found on him, because he believed in his God. Isaiah 54:17 (NKJV) 17No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgment You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, And their righteousness is from Me,” Says the Lord.

Daniel 2:16-19 New King James Version 16 So Daniel went in and asked the king to give him time, that he might tell the king the interpretation. 17 Then Daniel went to his house, and made the decision known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions, 18 that they might seek mercies from the God of heaven concerning this secret, so that Daniel and his companions might not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. 19 Then the secret was revealed to Daniel in a night vision. So Daniel blessed the God of heaven.

Daniel 2:16-19 New King James Version 16 So Daniel went in and asked the king to give him time, that he might tell the king the interpretation. 17 Then Daniel went to his house, and made the decision known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions, 18 that they might seek mercies from the God of heaven concerning this secret, so that Daniel and his companions might not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. 19 Then the secret was revealed to Daniel in a night vision. So Daniel blessed the God of heaven.

Old Testament: Daniel 6–7 Daniel 6–7 (Listen) Daniel and the Lions’ Den 6 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.” 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement1 to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.” 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared2 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Daniel’s Vision of the Four Beasts 7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel saw a dream and visions of his head as he lay in his bed. Then he wrote down the dream and told the sum of the matter. 2 Daniel declared,3 “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. 4 The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and the mind of a man was given to it. 5 And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side. It had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ 6 After this I looked, and behold, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back. And the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it. 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. The Ancient of Days Reigns 9 “As I looked,   thrones were placed,    and the Ancient of Days took his seat;  his clothing was white as snow,    and the hair of his head like pure wool;  his throne was fiery flames;    its wheels were burning fire.10   A stream of fire issued    and came out from before him;  a thousand thousands served him,    and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;  the court sat in judgment,    and the books were opened. 11 “I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. The Son of Man Is Given Dominion 13 “I saw in the night visions,   and behold, with the clouds of heaven    there came one like a son of man,  and he came to the Ancient of Days    and was presented before him.14   And to him was given dominion    and glory and a kingdom,  that all peoples, nations, and languages    should serve him;  his dominion is an everlasting dominion,    which shall not pass away,  and his kingdom one    that shall not be destroyed. Daniel’s Vision Interpreted 15 “As for me, Daniel, my spirit within me4 was anxious, and the visions of my head alarmed me. 16 I approached one of those who stood there and asked him the truth concerning all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of the things. 17 ‘These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever.’ 19 “Then I desired to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, exceedingly terrifying, with its teeth of iron and claws of bronze, and which devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet, 20 and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions. 21 As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 “Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast,   there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth,    which shall be different from all the kingdoms,  and it shall devour the whole earth,    and trample it down, and break it to pieces.24   As for the ten horns,  out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise,    and another shall arise after them;  he shall be different from the former ones,    and shall put down three kings.25   He shall speak words against the Most High,    and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,    and shall think to change the times and the law;  and they shall be given into his hand    for a time, times, and half a time.26   But the court shall sit in judgment,    and his dominion shall be taken away,    to be consumed and destroyed to the end.27   And the kingdom and the dominion    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven    shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;  his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,    and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’5 28 “Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly alarmed me, and my color changed, but I kept the matter in my heart.” Footnotes [1] 6:6 Or came thronging; also verses 11, 15 [2] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 [3] 7:2 Aramaic answered and said [4] 7:15 Aramaic within its sheath [5] 7:27 Or their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them (ESV) Psalm: Psalm 132 Psalm 132 (Listen) The Lord Has Chosen Zion A Song of Ascents. 132   Remember, O LORD, in David’s favor,    all the hardships he endured,2   how he swore to the LORD    and vowed to the Mighty One of Jacob,3   “I will not enter my house    or get into my bed,4   I will not give sleep to my eyes    or slumber to my eyelids,5   until I find a place for the LORD,    a dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob.” 6   Behold, we heard of it in Ephrathah;    we found it in the fields of Jaar.7   “Let us go to his dwelling place;    let us worship at his footstool!” 8   Arise, O LORD, and go to your resting place,    you and the ark of your might.9   Let your priests be clothed with righteousness,    and let your saints shout for joy.10   For the sake of your servant David,    do not turn away the face of your anointed one. 11   The LORD swore to David a sure oath    from which he will not turn back:  “One of the sons of your body1    I will set on your throne.12   If your sons keep my covenant    and my testimonies that I shall teach them,  their sons also forever    shall sit on your throne.” 13   For the LORD has chosen Zion;    he has desired it for his dwelling place:14   “This is my resting place forever;    here I will dwell, for I have desired it.15   I will abundantly bless her provisions;    I will satisfy her poor with bread.16   Her priests I will clothe with salvation,    and her saints will shout for joy.17   There I will make a horn to sprout for David;    I have prepared a lamp for my anointed.18   His enemies I will clothe with shame,    but on him his crown will shine.” Footnotes [1] 132:11 Hebrew of your fruit of the womb (ESV) New Testament: Hebrews 11 Hebrews 11 (Listen) By Faith 11 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the people of old received their commendation. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he went to live in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself received power to conceive, even when she was past the age, since she considered him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born descendants as many as the stars of heaven and as many as the innumerable grains of sand by the seashore. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the things promised, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 For people who speak thus make it clear that they are seeking a homeland. 15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. 20 By faith Isaac invoked future blessings on Jacob and Esau. 21 By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, at the end of his life, made mention of the exodus of the Israelites and gave directions concerning his bones. 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that the child was beautiful, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict. 24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not being afraid of the anger of the king, for he endured as seeing him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them. 29 By faith the people crossed the Red Sea as on dry land, but the Egyptians, when they attempted to do the same, were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days. 31 By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies. 32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets—33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. 35 Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. 36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two,1 they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated—38 of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Footnotes [1] 11:37 Some manuscripts add they were tempted (ESV)

Old Testament: Daniel 6–7 Daniel 6–7 (Listen) Daniel and the Lions’ Den 6 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.” 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement1 to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.” 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared2 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Daniel’s Vision of the Four Beasts 7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel saw a dream and visions of his head as he lay in his bed. Then he wrote down the dream and told the sum of the matter. 2 Daniel declared,3 “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. 4 The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand on two feet like a man, and the mind of a man was given to it. 5 And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side. It had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ 6 After this I looked, and behold, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back. And the beast had four heads, and dominion was given to it. 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. The Ancient of Days Reigns 9 “As I looked,   thrones were placed,    and the Ancient of Days took his seat;  his clothing was white as snow,    and the hair of his head like pure wool;  his throne was fiery flames;    its wheels were burning fire.10   A stream of fire issued    and came out from before him;  a thousand thousands served him,    and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;  the court sat in judgment,    and the books were opened. 11 “I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. The Son of Man Is Given Dominion 13 “I saw in the night visions,   and behold, with the clouds of heaven    there came one like a son of man,  and he came to the Ancient of Days    and was presented before him.14   And to him was given dominion    and glory and a kingdom,  that all peoples, nations, and languages    should serve him;  his dominion is an everlasting dominion,    which shall not pass away,  and his kingdom one    that shall not be destroyed. Daniel’s Vision Interpreted 15 “As for me, Daniel, my spirit within me4 was anxious, and the visions of my head alarmed me. 16 I approached one of those who stood there and asked him the truth concerning all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of the things. 17 ‘These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever.’ 19 “Then I desired to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, exceedingly terrifying, with its teeth of iron and claws of bronze, and which devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet, 20 and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions. 21 As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 “Thus he said: ‘As for the fourth beast,   there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth,    which shall be different from all the kingdoms,  and it shall devour the whole earth,    and trample it down, and break it to pieces.24   As for the ten horns,  out of this kingdom ten kings shall arise,    and another shall arise after them;  he shall be different from the former ones,    and shall put down three kings.25   He shall speak words against the Most High,    and shall wear out the saints of the Most High,    and shall think to change the times and the law;  and they shall be given into his hand    for a time, times, and half a time.26   But the court shall sit in judgment,    and his dominion shall be taken away,    to be consumed and destroyed to the end.27   And the kingdom and the dominion    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven    shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;  his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,    and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’5 28 “Here is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly alarmed me, and my color changed, but I kept the matter in my heart.” Footnotes [1] 6:6 Or came thronging; also verses 11, 15 [2] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 [3] 7:2 Aramaic answered and said [4] 7:15 Aramaic within its sheath [5] 7:27 Or their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them (ESV) New Testament: John 7:53–8:11 John 7:53–8:11 (Listen) [The earliest manuscripts do not include 7:53–8:11.]1 The Woman Caught in Adultery 53 [[They went each to his own house, 8 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”]] Footnotes [1] 7:53 Some manuscripts do not include 7:53–8:11; others add the passage here or after 7:36 or after 21:25 or after Luke 21:38, with variations in the text (ESV) Psalm: Psalm 132 Psalm 132 (Listen) The Lord Has Chosen Zion A Song of Ascents. 132   Remember, O LORD, in David’s favor,    all the hardships he endured,2   how he swore to the LORD    and vowed to the Mighty One of Jacob,3   “I will not enter my house    or get into my bed,4   I will not give sleep to my eyes    or slumber to my eyelids,5   until I find a place for the LORD,    a dwelling place for the Mighty One of Jacob.” 6   Behold, we heard of it in Ephrathah;    we found it in the fields of Jaar.7   “Let us go to his dwelling place;    let us worship at his footstool!” 8   Arise, O LORD, and go to your resting place,    you and the ark of your might.9   Let your priests be clothed with righteousness,    and let your saints shout for joy.10   For the sake of your servant David,    do not turn away the face of your anointed one. 11   The LORD swore to David a sure oath    from which he will not turn back:  “One of the sons of your body1    I will set on your throne.12   If your sons keep my covenant    and my testimonies that I shall teach them,  their sons also forever    shall sit on your throne.” 13   For the LORD has chosen Zion;    he has desired it for his dwelling place:14   “This is my resting place forever;    here I will dwell, for I have desired it.15   I will abundantly bless her provisions;    I will satisfy her poor with bread.16   Her priests I will clothe with salvation,    and her saints will shout for joy.17   There I will make a horn to sprout for David;    I have prepared a lamp for my anointed.18   His enemies I will clothe with shame,    but on him his crown will shine.” Footnotes [1] 132:11 Hebrew of your fruit of the womb (ESV) Proverb: Proverbs 29:23 Proverbs 29:23 (Listen) 23   One’s pride will bring him low,    but he who is lowly in spirit will obtain honor. (ESV)

Morning: Daniel 5–6 Daniel 5–6 (Listen) The Handwriting on the Wall 5 King Belshazzar made a great feast for a thousand of his lords and drank wine in front of the thousand. 2 Belshazzar, when he tasted the wine, commanded that the vessels of gold and of silver that Nebuchadnezzar his father1 had taken out of the temple in Jerusalem be brought, that the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines might drink from them. 3 Then they brought in the golden vessels that had been taken out of the temple, the house of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines drank from them. 4 They drank wine and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze, iron, wood, and stone. 5 Immediately the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall of the king’s palace, opposite the lampstand. And the king saw the hand as it wrote. 6 Then the king’s color changed, and his thoughts alarmed him; his limbs gave way, and his knees knocked together. 7 The king called loudly to bring in the enchanters, the Chaldeans, and the astrologers. The king declared2 to the wise men of Babylon, “Whoever reads this writing, and shows me its interpretation, shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around his neck and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 8 Then all the king’s wise men came in, but they could not read the writing or make known to the king the interpretation. 9 Then King Belshazzar was greatly alarmed, and his color changed, and his lords were perplexed. 10 The queen,3 because of the words of the king and his lords, came into the banqueting hall, and the queen declared, “O king, live forever! Let not your thoughts alarm you or your color change. 11 There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the spirit of the holy gods.4 In the days of your father, light and understanding and wisdom like the wisdom of the gods were found in him, and King Nebuchadnezzar, your father—your father the king—made him chief of the magicians, enchanters, Chaldeans, and astrologers, 12 because an excellent spirit, knowledge, and understanding to interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve problems were found in this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar. Now let Daniel be called, and he will show the interpretation.” Daniel Interprets the Handwriting 13 Then Daniel was brought in before the king. The king answered and said to Daniel, “You are that Daniel, one of the exiles of Judah, whom the king my father brought from Judah. 14 I have heard of you that the spirit of the gods5 is in you, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom are found in you. 15 Now the wise men, the enchanters, have been brought in before me to read this writing and make known to me its interpretation, but they could not show the interpretation of the matter. 16 But I have heard that you can give interpretations and solve problems. Now if you can read the writing and make known to me its interpretation, you shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around your neck and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 17 Then Daniel answered and said before the king, “Let your gifts be for yourself, and give your rewards to another. Nevertheless, I will read the writing to the king and make known to him the interpretation. 18 O king, the Most High God gave Nebuchadnezzar your father kingship and greatness and glory and majesty. 19 And because of the greatness that he gave him, all peoples, nations, and languages trembled and feared before him. Whom he would, he killed, and whom he would, he kept alive; whom he would, he raised up, and whom he would, he humbled. 20 But when his heart was lifted up and his spirit was hardened so that he dealt proudly, he was brought down from his kingly throne, and his glory was taken from him. 21 He was driven from among the children of mankind, and his mind was made like that of a beast, and his dwelling was with the wild donkeys. He was fed grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, until he knew that the Most High God rules the kingdom of mankind and sets over it whom he will. 22 And you his son,6 Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, though you knew all this, 23 but you have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven. And the vessels of his house have been brought in before you, and you and your lords, your wives, and your concubines have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which do not see or hear or know, but the God in whose hand is your breath, and whose are all your ways, you have not honored. 24 “Then from his presence the hand was sent, and this writing was inscribed. 25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN. 26 This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered7 the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; 27 TEKEL, you have been weighed8 in the balances and found wanting; 28 PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”9 29 Then Belshazzar gave the command, and Daniel was clothed with purple, a chain of gold was put around his neck, and a proclamation was made about him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom. 30 That very night Belshazzar the Chaldean king was killed. 31 10 And Darius the Mede received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old. Daniel and the Lions’ Den 6 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.” 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement11 to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.” 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared12 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Footnotes [1] 5:2 Or predecessor; also verses 11, 13, 18 [2] 5:7 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 10 [3] 5:10 Or queen mother; twice in this verse [4] 5:11 Or Spirit of the holy God [5] 5:14 Or Spirit of God [6] 5:22 Or successor [7] 5:26 Mene sounds like the Aramaic for numbered [8] 5:27 Tekel sounds like the Aramaic for weighed [9] 5:28 Peres (the singular of Parsin) sounds like the Aramaic for divided and for Persia [10] 5:31 Ch 6:1 in Aramaic [11] 6:6 Or came thronging; also verses 11, 15 [12] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 (ESV) Evening: 1 John 4 1 John 4 (Listen) Test the Spirits 4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error. God Is Love 7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot1 love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. Footnotes [1] 4:20 Some manuscripts how can he (ESV)

The Jesus Saves Ministry 1007 W. Arlington Blvd Greenville, N. C. 27834  Email: gojesusnow@aol.com www.tjsm.org  studio   :347.884.8850  phone: 252.214.0799 Apostle Lonnie Stocks, pastor Daniel 6:22-25 (KJV) 22  My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt. 23  Then was the king exceeding glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no manner of hurt was found upon him, because he believed in his God. 24  And the king commanded, and they brought those men which had accused Daniel, and they cast them into the den of lions, them, their children, and their wives; and the lions had the mastery of them, and brake all their bones in pieces or ever they came at the bottom of the den. 25  Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.      

Daniel 6:15 - 28 (NIV) 15 Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, “Remember, Your Majesty, that according to the law of the Medes and Persians no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed.” 16 So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions' den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!” 17 A stone was brought and placed over the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the rings of his nobles, so that Daniel's situation might not be changed. 18 Then the king returned to his palace and spent the night without eating and without any entertainment being brought to him. And he could not sleep. 19 At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lions' den. 20 When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions?” 21 Daniel answered, “May the king live forever! 22 My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, Your Majesty.” 23 The king was overjoyed and gave orders to lift Daniel out of the den. And when Daniel was lifted from the den, no wound was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 At the king's command, the men who had falsely accused Daniel were brought in and thrown into the lions' den, along with their wives and children. And before they reached the floor of the den, the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the nations and peoples of every language in all the earth: “May you prosper greatly! 26 “I issue a decree that in every part of my kingdom people must fear and reverence the God of Daniel. “For he is the living God and he endures forever; his kingdom will not be destroyed, his dominion will never end. 27 He rescues and he saves; he performs signs and wonders in the heavens and on the earth. He has rescued Daniel from the power of the lions.” 28 So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Prayer Ministry: https://tinyurl.com/PrayerHLA Church Website: http://harvestla.org/ HarvestLA (English Ministry of EFCLA) 9537 Telstar Avenue, El Monte, CA 91731 (626) 450-7676

13 So Daniel was brought before the king, and the king said to him, “Are you Daniel, one of the exiles my father the king brought from Judah? 14 I have heard that the spirit of the gods is in you and that you have insight, intelligence and outstanding wisdom. 15 The wise men and enchanters were brought before me to read this writing and tell me what it means, but they could not explain it. 16 Now I have heard that you are able to give interpretations and to solve difficult problems. If you can read this writing and tell me what it means, you will be clothed in purple and have a gold chain placed around your neck, and you will be made the third highest ruler in the kingdom.” 17 Then Daniel answered the king, “You may keep your gifts for yourself and give your rewards to someone else. Nevertheless, I will read the writing for the king and tell him what it means. 18 “Your Majesty, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar sovereignty and greatness and glory and splendor. 19 Because of the high position he gave him, all the nations and peoples of every language dreaded and feared him. Those the king wanted to put to death, he put to death; those he wanted to spare, he spared; those he wanted to promote, he promoted; and those he wanted to humble, he humbled. 20 But when his heart became arrogant and hardened with pride, he was deposed from his royal throne and stripped of his glory. 21 He was driven away from people and given the mind of an animal; he lived with the wild donkeys and ate grass like the ox; and his body was drenched with the dew of heaven, until he acknowledged that the Most High God is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and sets over them anyone he wishes. 22 “But you, Belshazzar, his son,[a] have not humbled yourself, though you knew all this. 23 Instead, you have set yourself up against the Lord of heaven. You had the goblets from his temple brought to you, and you and your nobles, your wives and your concubines drank wine from them. You praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or understand. But you did not honor the God who holds in his hand your life and all your ways.

COMMENTARY Today’s reading continues the story of Daniel and the lion’s den. As we’ve seen, Darius was manipulated into making a decree that required all prayer go to him for 30 days. In humble noncompliance with the decree, Daniel offered prayers to God, just as he had always done. Now the story continues with the conspirators turning Daniel in. They say to the ruler in verse 13, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, Your Majesty, or to the decree you put in writing. He still prays three times a day.” Unlike Nebuchadnezzar’s heated reaction to the civil disobedience of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, Darius’ reaction is remarkably benevolent. Daniel 6:14 says, “When the king heard this, he was greatly distressed; he was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sundown to save him.” Darius may seem benevolent, at least in comparison to his erratic predecessor, but he is also characterized as incompetent. In a moment of comedy and irony, Darius desperately tries to save his only honest administrator but proves to be incapable of dissolving his own law. Admitting defeat, he says to Daniel in verse 16, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!” In other words, Darius couldn’t save Daniel from his short-sighted policies but perhaps God could. This portrayal of Darius may be comedic, but like all comedy, it contains a piercing sliver of truth. Despite all the power that human leaders may hold, there will always be limitations to what they can achieve. In American society, where we put extraordinary trust in our leaders, where we believe they can save us from past wounds and hope they can chart out an idyllic future for us, the story of Daniel and Darius should teach us to place our hope elsewhere. If we need someone to rescue us, God alone can save. SCRIPTURE DANIEL 6:11–28 11 Then these men went as a group and found Daniel praying and asking God for help. 12 So they went to the king and spoke to him about his royal decree: “Did you not publish a decree that during the next thirty days anyone who prays to any god or human being except to you, Your Majesty, would be thrown into the lions’ den?” The king answered, “The decree stands—in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.” 13 Then they said to the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, Your Majesty, or to the decree you put in writing. He still prays three times a day.” 14 When the king heard this, he was greatly distressed; he was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sundown to save him. 15 Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, “Remember, Your Majesty, that according to the law of the Medes and Persians no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed.” 16 So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!” 17 A stone was brought and placed over the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the rings of his nobles, so that Daniel’s situation might not be changed. 18 Then the king returned to his palace and spent the night without eating and without any entertainment being brought to him. And he could not sleep. 19 At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lions’ den. 20 When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions?” 21 Daniel answered, “May the king live forever! 22 My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, Your Majesty.” 23 The king was overjoyed and gave orders to lift Daniel out of the den. And when Daniel was lifted from the den, no wound was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 At the king’s command, the men who had falsely accused Daniel were brought in and thrown into the lions’ den, along with their wives and children. And before they reached the floor of the den, the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the nations and peoples of every language in all the earth: “May you prosper greatly! 26 “I issue a decree that in every part of my kingdom people must fear and reverence the God of Daniel. “For he is the living God and he endures forever; his kingdom will not be destroyed, his dominion will never end. 27 He rescues and he saves; he performs signs and wonders in the heavens and on the earth. He has rescued Daniel from the power of the lions.” 28 So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. QUESTIONS 1. In Daniel 6:21, Daniel repeats a greeting we have read several other times throughout the book: “May the king live forever” (cf. Daniel 2:4, 3:9; 5:10, 6:6). How does this greeting contrast with the affirmation of Daniel 6:26: “For he is the living God and he endures forever; his kingdom will not be destroyed, his dominion will never end” (cf. Daniel 4:3, 34; 7:14, 18, 27; 12:2, 3, 7)? What is the book trying to teach us through these contrasting veins of thought? 2. When have you set too much hope in a human leader? How were you let down, and how does that experience shape your perspective today?

COMMENTARY In today’s reading, the story of Belshazzar and the writing on the wall continues. As we’ve seen, the local Babylonian experts have proven ineffective yet again at interpreting an omen of truly divine origin. In fact, in each successive story, they’ve shown themselves to be increasingly incompetent. In Daniel 2, they couldn’t tell Nebuchadnezzar his dream. In Daniel 4, they couldn’t interpret a dream even after hearing it. Now in Daniel 5, they are not only unable to interpret a message, they can’t even read the message! So at the behest of the queen mother, Belshazzar invites Daniel to interpret the omen. We learn from Daniel that the inscription said, “Mene, mene, tekel, parsin” (Daniel 5:25). This succinct message lists various Babylonian monetary weights. Like the metals of the statue in Daniel 2, the value of these weights declines as the list goes on. This general decline in value might share a clue about the significance of the message: something considered great would diminish into something of little worth. However, more help would be needed to understand the writing’s full meaning, so Daniel proceeds to interpret the message. He says, “Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end. Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting. Peres: Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.” Daniel discerned this interpretation by means of creative wordplay. The Aramaic terms “mene,” “tekel,” and “peres” contain the same root letters as the words above translated as “numbered,” “weighed,” “divided,” and “Persia.” The meaning of the omen was that Belshazzar and his Babylonian empire would be brought down. The proud ruler had refused to humble himself, so God was going to do it for him. God’s humbling of Belshazzar teaches about God’s concern for humility. In God’s upside-down value system, leaders are to live as though they are not fundamentally better than the people they lead. In fact, God wants leaders to embrace the posture of servants. Unfortunately, governments, corporations, and even churches frequently elevate their leaders to a godlike status. We must resist this impulse or else God will intervene. The writing is on the wall. SCRIPTURE DANIEL 5:13–31 13 So Daniel was brought before the king, and the king said to him, “Are you Daniel, one of the exiles my father the king brought from Judah? 14 I have heard that the spirit of the gods is in you and that you have insight, intelligence and outstanding wisdom. 15 The wise men and enchanters were brought before me to read this writing and tell me what it means, but they could not explain it. 16 Now I have heard that you are able to give interpretations and to solve difficult problems. If you can read this writing and tell me what it means, you will be clothed in purple and have a gold chain placed around your neck, and you will be made the third highest ruler in the kingdom.” 17 Then Daniel answered the king, “You may keep your gifts for yourself and give your rewards to someone else. Nevertheless, I will read the writing for the king and tell him what it means. 18 “Your Majesty, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar sovereignty and greatness and glory and splendor. 19 Because of the high position he gave him, all the nations and peoples of every language dreaded and feared him. Those the king wanted to put to death, he put to death; those he wanted to spare, he spared; those he wanted to promote, he promoted; and those he wanted to humble, he humbled. 20 But when his heart became arrogant and hardened with pride, he was deposed from his royal throne and stripped of his glory. 21 He was driven away from people and given the mind of an animal; he lived with the wild donkeys and ate grass like the ox; and his body was drenched with the dew of heaven, until he acknowledged that the Most High God is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and sets over them anyone he wishes. 22 “But you, Belshazzar, his son, have not humbled yourself, though you knew all this. 23 Instead, you have set yourself up against the Lord of heaven. You had the goblets from his temple brought to you, and you and your nobles, your wives and your concubines drank wine from them. You praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or understand. But you did not honor the God who holds in his hand your life and all your ways. 24 Therefore he sent the hand that wrote the inscription. 25 “This is the inscription that was written: mene, mene, tekel, parsin 26 “Here is what these words mean: Mene: God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end. 27 Tekel: You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting. 28 Peres: Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.” 29 Then at Belshazzar’s command, Daniel was clothed in purple, a gold chain was placed around his neck, and he was proclaimed the third highest ruler in the kingdom. 30 That very night Belshazzar, king of the Babylonians, was slain, 31 and Darius the Mede took over the kingdom, at the age of sixty-two. QUESTIONS 1. The story of Belshazzar in Daniel 5 parallels the story of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4: both kings are humbled after exhibiting great pride. However, their final outcomes are different. What did Nebuchadnezzar do that Belshazzar didn’t, and what can that teach us today? 2. In Daniel 5:22, Daniel indicts Belshazzar not only for his pride but also for his unwillingness to respond to what he knew: “But you, Belshazzar, his son, have not humbled yourself, though you knew all this.” Why would Belshazzar’s knowledge make him more culpable? What does this mean for us and our knowledge of God?

Jills All Female Land Investment Group (LA 1364) Transcript: Steven J Butala: Steve and Jill here. Jill K DeWit: Hi. Steven J Butala: Welcome to the Land Academy Show. Entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill K DeWit: And I'm Jill Dewitt. We're back broadcasting in sunny, southern California. Steven J Butala: Today Jill and I talk about Jill's all female land investment group. It's something that I've been hearing a lot about for the last month in every square inch of my house and office. Jill K DeWit: Oh, really? You think so? Steven J Butala: It's time the public needs to hear about it, I guess. Jill K DeWit: Really? Okay. Steven J Butala: Before we get into it, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free. Jill K DeWit: Raye wrote, "I'm new to Land Academy, but definitely a fan of Jill and Steve. I started out listening to several in this space, but Jill and Steve's." I like to point out, I like how my name comes first here. So thank you Ray. "Jill and Steve's methodologies just made sense to me. I'm currently working on my first mailer. Excited to share and grow with all of you. Question, if you could go back to when you first started out and give yourself one simple piece of advice, what would it be?" Raye B. I love this and you have some answers. Can I are these for me to read or? Steven J Butala: Yeah. Because some people piped in on the forum just to help out. Jill K DeWit: They already wrote some answers. So Daniel wrote patience. That was it. Steven J Butala: One word. Patience. Jill K DeWit: Exactly. Austin wrote, "Ray, I added in some bonus tidbits. Number one, perform actionable steps that move things forward. Two, don't get bogged down by perfection, such as having the perfect logo, perfect website, et cetera. Three, mistakes or crises will happen. Resolve the problems. Move on, learn from experience." Steven J Butala: What's the plural of crisis? Jill K DeWit: I thought it was crises, I don't know. Steven J Butala: I don't know either. Jill K DeWit: I may have just made up a word. Steven J Butala: No, I think you're probably right. I know there's been multiple crisis in my life. That can't be right. There has to be some plural. Jill K DeWit: Yeah. Fortunately it doesn't happen often. So that's good that we don't know the multiple- Steven J Butala: I've had four of them says the camera turned on just now. Jill K DeWit: Oh did you? Steven J Butala: Yeah. Jill K DeWit: I'm sorry. Steven J Butala: They're all inside me. Jill K DeWit: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I don't have that. Steven J Butala: I know you don't. It's a little Disneyland inside the Jill's head all the time. Jill K DeWit: Thank you. "Four, have an acquisition criteria and stick to it. Avoid shot." This so good I love Austin. You're been listening. You catch on quickly. I'm glad. "Avoid shiny objects in buying property that doesn't check all your boxes. Five, utilize land investors, aka this forum for questions. If you're feeling really lost at do a consultation with Kevin or Jack or Jill." Steven J Butala: Thank you, Kevin. Can't thank you enough. Our moderator on the site here. Yep. Jill K DeWit: Consultation is much cheaper than sending a bust mailer or buying bad property. Austin, that's really good. Are there any more? Steven J Butala: Nope. So how about you answer the question? If you had to go back right from the beginning, what advice would you tell yourself? What would you do differently? Jill K DeWit: Oh differently? Steven J Butala: What he's asking or I think it's she, R-A-Y-E, she's asking, what would you change if you had to go back to the start? Jill K DeWit: You know the main thing, honestly, what I see people do all the time, and it's easy to go down that rabbit hole, is get distracted by other properties than really sticking to your thing. So the best advice I could give is whatever you're setting out to buy,

With family: 2 Kings 2; 2 Thessalonians 2 2 Kings 2 (Listen) Elijah Taken to Heaven 2 Now when the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven by a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. 2 And Elijah said to Elisha, “Please stay here, for the LORD has sent me as far as Bethel.” But Elisha said, “As the LORD lives, and as you yourself live, I will not leave you.” So they went down to Bethel. 3 And the sons of the prophets who were in Bethel came out to Elisha and said to him, “Do you know that today the LORD will take away your master from over you?” And he said, “Yes, I know it; keep quiet.” 4 Elijah said to him, “Elisha, please stay here, for the LORD has sent me to Jericho.” But he said, “As the LORD lives, and as you yourself live, I will not leave you.” So they came to Jericho. 5 The sons of the prophets who were at Jericho drew near to Elisha and said to him, “Do you know that today the LORD will take away your master from over you?” And he answered, “Yes, I know it; keep quiet.” 6 Then Elijah said to him, “Please stay here, for the LORD has sent me to the Jordan.” But he said, “As the LORD lives, and as you yourself live, I will not leave you.” So the two of them went on. 7 Fifty men of the sons of the prophets also went and stood at some distance from them, as they both were standing by the Jordan. 8 Then Elijah took his cloak and rolled it up and struck the water, and the water was parted to the one side and to the other, till the two of them could go over on dry ground. 9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you, before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “Please let there be a double portion of your spirit on me.” 10 And he said, “You have asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as I am being taken from you, it shall be so for you, but if you do not see me, it shall not be so.” 11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it and he cried, “My father, my father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen!” And he saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces. 13 And he took up the cloak of Elijah that had fallen from him and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan. 14 Then he took the cloak of Elijah that had fallen from him and struck the water, saying, “Where is the LORD, the God of Elijah?” And when he had struck the water, the water was parted to the one side and to the other, and Elisha went over. Elisha Succeeds Elijah 15 Now when the sons of the prophets who were at Jericho saw him opposite them, they said, “The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha.” And they came to meet him and bowed to the ground before him. 16 And they said to him, “Behold now, there are with your servants fifty strong men. Please let them go and seek your master. It may be that the Spirit of the LORD has caught him up and cast him upon some mountain or into some valley.” And he said, “You shall not send.” 17 But when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, “Send.” They sent therefore fifty men. And for three days they sought him but did not find him. 18 And they came back to him while he was staying at Jericho, and he said to them, “Did I not say to you, ‘Do not go’?” 19 Now the men of the city said to Elisha, “Behold, the situation of this city is pleasant, as my lord sees, but the water is bad, and the land is unfruitful.” 20 He said, “Bring me a new bowl, and put salt in it.” So they brought it to him. 21 Then he went to the spring of water and threw salt in it and said, “Thus says the LORD, I have healed this water; from now on neither death nor miscarriage shall come from it.” 22 So the water has been healed to this day, according to the word that Elisha spoke. 23 He went up from there to Bethel, and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” 24 And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys. 25 From there he went on to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria. (ESV) 2 Thessalonians 2 (Listen) The Man of Lawlessness 2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,1 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness2 is revealed, the son of destruction,3 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Stand Firm 13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits4 to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 14 To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. 16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word. Footnotes [1] 2:1 Or brothers and sisters; also verses 13, 15 [2] 2:3 Some manuscripts sin [3] 2:3 Greek the son of perdition (a Hebrew idiom) [4] 2:13 Some manuscripts chose you from the beginning (ESV) In private: Psalms 112–113; Daniel 6 Psalms 112–113 (Listen) The Righteous Will Never Be Moved 112   1 Praise the LORD!  Blessed is the man who fears the LORD,    who greatly delights in his commandments!2   His offspring will be mighty in the land;    the generation of the upright will be blessed.3   Wealth and riches are in his house,    and his righteousness endures forever.4   Light dawns in the darkness for the upright;    he is gracious, merciful, and righteous.5   It is well with the man who deals generously and lends;    who conducts his affairs with justice.6   For the righteous will never be moved;    he will be remembered forever.7   He is not afraid of bad news;    his heart is firm, trusting in the LORD.8   His heart is steady;2 he will not be afraid,    until he looks in triumph on his adversaries.9   He has distributed freely; he has given to the poor;    his righteousness endures forever;    his horn is exalted in honor.10   The wicked man sees it and is angry;    he gnashes his teeth and melts away;    the desire of the wicked will perish! Who Is like the Lord Our God? 113   Praise the LORD!  Praise, O servants of the LORD,    praise the name of the LORD! 2   Blessed be the name of the LORD    from this time forth and forevermore!3   From the rising of the sun to its setting,    the name of the LORD is to be praised! 4   The LORD is high above all nations,    and his glory above the heavens!5   Who is like the LORD our God,    who is seated on high,6   who looks far down    on the heavens and the earth?7   He raises the poor from the dust    and lifts the needy from the ash heap,8   to make them sit with princes,    with the princes of his people.9   He gives the barren woman a home,    making her the joyous mother of children.  Praise the LORD! Footnotes [1] 112:1 This psalm is an acrostic poem, each line beginning with the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet [2] 112:8 Or established (compare 111:8) (ESV) Daniel 6 (Listen) Daniel and the Lions’ Den 6 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.” 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement1 to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.” 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared2 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Footnotes [1] 6:6 Or came thronging; also verses 11, 15 [2] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 (ESV)

Daniel 4–6 Daniel 4–6 (Listen) Nebuchadnezzar Praises God 4 1 King Nebuchadnezzar to all peoples, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth: Peace be multiplied to you! 2 It has seemed good to me to show the signs and wonders that the Most High God has done for me. 3   How great are his signs,    how mighty his wonders!  His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,    and his dominion endures from generation to generation. Nebuchadnezzar’s Second Dream 4 2 I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at ease in my house and prospering in my palace. 5 I saw a dream that made me afraid. As I lay in bed the fancies and the visions of my head alarmed me. 6 So I made a decree that all the wise men of Babylon should be brought before me, that they might make known to me the interpretation of the dream. 7 Then the magicians, the enchanters, the Chaldeans, and the astrologers came in, and I told them the dream, but they could not make known to me its interpretation. 8 At last Daniel came in before me—he who was named Belteshazzar after the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods3—and I told him the dream, saying, 9 “O Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you and that no mystery is too difficult for you, tell me the visions of my dream that I saw and their interpretation. 10 The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. 11 The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth. 12 Its leaves were beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in it was food for all. The beasts of the field found shade under it, and the birds of the heavens lived in its branches, and all flesh was fed from it. 13 “I saw in the visions of my head as I lay in bed, and behold, a watcher, a holy one, came down from heaven. 14 He proclaimed aloud and said thus: ‘Chop down the tree and lop off its branches, strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Let the beasts flee from under it and the birds from its branches. 15 But leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze, amid the tender grass of the field. Let him be wet with the dew of heaven. Let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth. 16 Let his mind be changed from a man’s, and let a beast’s mind be given to him; and let seven periods of time pass over him. 17 The sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men.’ 18 This dream I, King Nebuchadnezzar, saw. And you, O Belteshazzar, tell me the interpretation, because all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known to me the interpretation, but you are able, for the spirit of the holy gods is in you.” Daniel Interprets the Second Dream 19 Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was dismayed for a while, and his thoughts alarmed him. The king answered and said, “Belteshazzar, let not the dream or the interpretation alarm you.” Belteshazzar answered and said, “My lord, may the dream be for those who hate you and its interpretation for your enemies! 20 The tree you saw, which grew and became strong, so that its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth, 21 whose leaves were beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which beasts of the field found shade, and in whose branches the birds of the heavens lived—22 it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong. Your greatness has grown and reaches to heaven, and your dominion to the ends of the earth. 23 And because the king saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, ‘Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze, in the tender grass of the field, and let him be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven periods of time pass over him,’ 24 this is the interpretation, O king: It is a decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king, 25 that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will. 26 And as it was commanded to leave the stump of the roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be confirmed for you from the time that you know that Heaven rules. 27 Therefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable to you: break off your sins by practicing righteousness, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the oppressed, that there may perhaps be a lengthening of your prosperity.” Nebuchadnezzar’s Humiliation 28 All this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar. 29 At the end of twelve months he was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon, 30 and the king answered and said, “Is not this great Babylon, which I have built by my mighty power as a royal residence and for the glory of my majesty?” 31 While the words were still in the king’s mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, “O King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken: The kingdom has departed from you, 32 and you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. And you shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will.” 33 Immediately the word was fulfilled against Nebuchadnezzar. He was driven from among men and ate grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven till his hair grew as long as eagles’ feathers, and his nails were like birds’ claws. Nebuchadnezzar Restored 34 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever,   for his dominion is an everlasting dominion,    and his kingdom endures from generation to generation;35   all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,    and he does according to his will among the host of heaven    and among the inhabitants of the earth;  and none can stay his hand    or say to him, “What have you done?” 36 At the same time my reason returned to me, and for the glory of my kingdom, my majesty and splendor returned to me. My counselors and my lords sought me, and I was established in my kingdom, and still more greatness was added to me. 37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, for all his works are right and his ways are just; and those who walk in pride he is able to humble. The Handwriting on the Wall 5 King Belshazzar made a great feast for a thousand of his lords and drank wine in front of the thousand. 2 Belshazzar, when he tasted the wine, commanded that the vessels of gold and of silver that Nebuchadnezzar his father4 had taken out of the temple in Jerusalem be brought, that the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines might drink from them. 3 Then they brought in the golden vessels that had been taken out of the temple, the house of God in Jerusalem, and the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines drank from them. 4 They drank wine and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze, iron, wood, and stone. 5 Immediately the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall of the king’s palace, opposite the lampstand. And the king saw the hand as it wrote. 6 Then the king’s color changed, and his thoughts alarmed him; his limbs gave way, and his knees knocked together. 7 The king called loudly to bring in the enchanters, the Chaldeans, and the astrologers. The king declared5 to the wise men of Babylon, “Whoever reads this writing, and shows me its interpretation, shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around his neck and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 8 Then all the king’s wise men came in, but they could not read the writing or make known to the king the interpretation. 9 Then King Belshazzar was greatly alarmed, and his color changed, and his lords were perplexed. 10 The queen,6 because of the words of the king and his lords, came into the banqueting hall, and the queen declared, “O king, live forever! Let not your thoughts alarm you or your color change. 11 There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the spirit of the holy gods.7 In the days of your father, light and understanding and wisdom like the wisdom of the gods were found in him, and King Nebuchadnezzar, your father—your father the king—made him chief of the magicians, enchanters, Chaldeans, and astrologers, 12 because an excellent spirit, knowledge, and understanding to interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve problems were found in this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar. Now let Daniel be called, and he will show the interpretation.” Daniel Interprets the Handwriting 13 Then Daniel was brought in before the king. The king answered and said to Daniel, “You are that Daniel, one of the exiles of Judah, whom the king my father brought from Judah. 14 I have heard of you that the spirit of the gods8 is in you, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom are found in you. 15 Now the wise men, the enchanters, have been brought in before me to read this writing and make known to me its interpretation, but they could not show the interpretation of the matter. 16 But I have heard that you can give interpretations and solve problems. Now if you can read the writing and make known to me its interpretation, you shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around your neck and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 17 Then Daniel answered and said before the king, “Let your gifts be for yourself, and give your rewards to another. Nevertheless, I will read the writing to the king and make known to him the interpretation. 18 O king, the Most High God gave Nebuchadnezzar your father kingship and greatness and glory and majesty. 19 And because of the greatness that he gave him, all peoples, nations, and languages trembled and feared before him. Whom he would, he killed, and whom he would, he kept alive; whom he would, he raised up, and whom he would, he humbled. 20 But when his heart was lifted up and his spirit was hardened so that he dealt proudly, he was brought down from his kingly throne, and his glory was taken from him. 21 He was driven from among the children of mankind, and his mind was made like that of a beast, and his dwelling was with the wild donkeys. He was fed grass like an ox, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, until he knew that the Most High God rules the kingdom of mankind and sets over it whom he will. 22 And you his son,9 Belshazzar, have not humbled your heart, though you knew all this, 23 but you have lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven. And the vessels of his house have been brought in before you, and you and your lords, your wives, and your concubines have drunk wine from them. And you have praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood, and stone, which do not see or hear or know, but the God in whose hand is your breath, and whose are all your ways, you have not honored. 24 “Then from his presence the hand was sent, and this writing was inscribed. 25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN. 26 This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered10 the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; 27 TEKEL, you have been weighed11 in the balances and found wanting; 28 PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”12 29 Then Belshazzar gave the command, and Daniel was clothed with purple, a chain of gold was put around his neck, and a proclamation was made about him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom. 30 That very night Belshazzar the Chaldean king was killed. 31 13 And Darius the Mede received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old. Daniel and the Lions’ Den 6 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.” 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement14 to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.” 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared15 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Footnotes [1] 4:1 Ch 3:31 in Aramaic [2] 4:4 Ch 4:1 in Aramaic [3] 4:8 Or Spirit of the holy God; also verses 9, 18 [4] 5:2 Or predecessor; also verses 11, 13, 18 [5] 5:7 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 10 [6] 5:10 Or queen mother; twice in this verse [7] 5:11 Or Spirit of the holy God [8] 5:14 Or Spirit of God [9] 5:22 Or successor [10] 5:26 Mene sounds like the Aramaic for numbered [11] 5:27 Tekel sounds like the Aramaic for weighed [12] 5:28 Peres (the singular of Parsin) sounds like the Aramaic for divided and for Persia [13] 5:31 Ch 6:1 in Aramaic [14] 6:6 Or came thronging; also verses 11, 15 [15] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 (ESV)

Psalms and Wisdom: Psalm 34 Psalm 34 (Listen) Taste and See That the Lord Is Good 1 Of David, when he changed his behavior before Abimelech, so that he drove him out, and he went away. 34   I will bless the LORD at all times;    his praise shall continually be in my mouth.2   My soul makes its boast in the LORD;    let the humble hear and be glad.3   Oh, magnify the LORD with me,    and let us exalt his name together! 4   I sought the LORD, and he answered me    and delivered me from all my fears.5   Those who look to him are radiant,    and their faces shall never be ashamed.6   This poor man cried, and the LORD heard him    and saved him out of all his troubles.7   The angel of the LORD encamps    around those who fear him, and delivers them. 8   Oh, taste and see that the LORD is good!    Blessed is the man who takes refuge in him!9   Oh, fear the LORD, you his saints,    for those who fear him have no lack!10   The young lions suffer want and hunger;    but those who seek the LORD lack no good thing. 11   Come, O children, listen to me;    I will teach you the fear of the LORD.12   What man is there who desires life    and loves many days, that he may see good?13   Keep your tongue from evil    and your lips from speaking deceit.14   Turn away from evil and do good;    seek peace and pursue it. 15   The eyes of the LORD are toward the righteous    and his ears toward their cry.16   The face of the LORD is against those who do evil,    to cut off the memory of them from the earth.17   When the righteous cry for help, the LORD hears    and delivers them out of all their troubles.18   The LORD is near to the brokenhearted    and saves the crushed in spirit. 19   Many are the afflictions of the righteous,    but the LORD delivers him out of them all.20   He keeps all his bones;    not one of them is broken.21   Affliction will slay the wicked,    and those who hate the righteous will be condemned.22   The LORD redeems the life of his servants;    none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned. Footnotes [1] 34:1 This psalm is an acrostic poem, each verse beginning with the successive letters of the Hebrew alphabet (ESV) Pentateuch and History: 1 Samuel 25 1 Samuel 25 (Listen) The Death of Samuel 25 Now Samuel died. And all Israel assembled and mourned for him, and they buried him in his house at Ramah. David and Abigail Then David rose and went down to the wilderness of Paran. 2 And there was a man in Maon whose business was in Carmel. The man was very rich; he had three thousand sheep and a thousand goats. He was shearing his sheep in Carmel. 3 Now the name of the man was Nabal, and the name of his wife Abigail. The woman was discerning and beautiful, but the man was harsh and badly behaved; he was a Calebite. 4 David heard in the wilderness that Nabal was shearing his sheep. 5 So David sent ten young men. And David said to the young men, “Go up to Carmel, and go to Nabal and greet him in my name. 6 And thus you shall greet him: ‘Peace be to you, and peace be to your house, and peace be to all that you have. 7 I hear that you have shearers. Now your shepherds have been with us, and we did them no harm, and they missed nothing all the time they were in Carmel. 8 Ask your young men, and they will tell you. Therefore let my young men find favor in your eyes, for we come on a feast day. Please give whatever you have at hand to your servants and to your son David.’” 9 When David’s young men came, they said all this to Nabal in the name of David, and then they waited. 10 And Nabal answered David’s servants, “Who is David? Who is the son of Jesse? There are many servants these days who are breaking away from their masters. 11 Shall I take my bread and my water and my meat that I have killed for my shearers and give it to men who come from I do not know where?” 12 So David’s young men turned away and came back and told him all this. 13 And David said to his men, “Every man strap on his sword!” And every man of them strapped on his sword. David also strapped on his sword. And about four hundred men went up after David, while two hundred remained with the baggage. 14 But one of the young men told Abigail, Nabal’s wife, “Behold, David sent messengers out of the wilderness to greet our master, and he railed at them. 15 Yet the men were very good to us, and we suffered no harm, and we did not miss anything when we were in the fields, as long as we went with them. 16 They were a wall to us both by night and by day, all the while we were with them keeping the sheep. 17 Now therefore know this and consider what you should do, for harm is determined against our master and against all his house, and he is such a worthless man that one cannot speak to him.” 18 Then Abigail made haste and took two hundred loaves and two skins of wine and five sheep already prepared and five seahs1 of parched grain and a hundred clusters of raisins and two hundred cakes of figs, and laid them on donkeys. 19 And she said to her young men, “Go on before me; behold, I come after you.” But she did not tell her husband Nabal. 20 And as she rode on the donkey and came down under cover of the mountain, behold, David and his men came down toward her, and she met them. 21 Now David had said, “Surely in vain have I guarded all that this fellow has in the wilderness, so that nothing was missed of all that belonged to him, and he has returned me evil for good. 22 God do so to the enemies of David2 and more also, if by morning I leave so much as one male of all who belong to him.” 23 When Abigail saw David, she hurried and got down from the donkey and fell before David on her face and bowed to the ground. 24 She fell at his feet and said, “On me alone, my lord, be the guilt. Please let your servant speak in your ears, and hear the words of your servant. 25 Let not my lord regard this worthless fellow, Nabal, for as his name is, so is he. Nabal3 is his name, and folly is with him. But I your servant did not see the young men of my lord, whom you sent. 26 Now then, my lord, as the LORD lives, and as your soul lives, because the LORD has restrained you from bloodguilt and from saving with your own hand, now then let your enemies and those who seek to do evil to my lord be as Nabal. 27 And now let this present that your servant has brought to my lord be given to the young men who follow my lord. 28 Please forgive the trespass of your servant. For the LORD will certainly make my lord a sure house, because my lord is fighting the battles of the LORD, and evil shall not be found in you so long as you live. 29 If men rise up to pursue you and to seek your life, the life of my lord shall be bound in the bundle of the living in the care of the LORD your God. And the lives of your enemies he shall sling out as from the hollow of a sling. 30 And when the LORD has done to my lord according to all the good that he has spoken concerning you and has appointed you prince4 over Israel, 31 my lord shall have no cause of grief or pangs of conscience for having shed blood without cause or for my lord working salvation himself. And when the LORD has dealt well with my lord, then remember your servant.” 32 And David said to Abigail, “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, who sent you this day to meet me! 33 Blessed be your discretion, and blessed be you, who have kept me this day from bloodguilt and from working salvation with my own hand! 34 For as surely as the LORD, the God of Israel, lives, who has restrained me from hurting you, unless you had hurried and come to meet me, truly by morning there had not been left to Nabal so much as one male.” 35 Then David received from her hand what she had brought him. And he said to her, “Go up in peace to your house. See, I have obeyed your voice, and I have granted your petition.” 36 And Abigail came to Nabal, and behold, he was holding a feast in his house, like the feast of a king. And Nabal’s heart was merry within him, for he was very drunk. So she told him nothing at all until the morning light. 37 In the morning, when the wine had gone out of Nabal, his wife told him these things, and his heart died within him, and he became as a stone. 38 And about ten days later the LORD struck Nabal, and he died. 39 When David heard that Nabal was dead, he said, “Blessed be the LORD who has avenged the insult I received at the hand of Nabal, and has kept back his servant from wrongdoing. The LORD has returned the evil of Nabal on his own head.” Then David sent and spoke to Abigail, to take her as his wife. 40 When the servants of David came to Abigail at Carmel, they said to her, “David has sent us to you to take you to him as his wife.” 41 And she rose and bowed with her face to the ground and said, “Behold, your handmaid is a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord.” 42 And Abigail hurried and rose and mounted a donkey, and her five young women attended her. She followed the messengers of David and became his wife. 43 David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel, and both of them became his wives. 44 Saul had given Michal his daughter, David’s wife, to Palti the son of Laish, who was of Gallim. Footnotes [1] 25:18 A seah was about 7 quarts or 7.3 liters [2] 25:22 Septuagint to David [3] 25:25 Nabal means fool [4] 25:30 Or leader (ESV) Chronicles and Prophets: Daniel 6 Daniel 6 (Listen) Daniel and the Lions’ Den 6 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God.” 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement1 to the king and said to him, “O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, “O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and said before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed.” 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared2 to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!” 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, “O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm.” 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: “Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel,   for he is the living God,    enduring forever;  his kingdom shall never be destroyed,    and his dominion shall be to the end.27   He delivers and rescues;    he works signs and wonders    in heaven and on earth,  he who has saved Daniel    from the power of the lions.” 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian. Footnotes [1] 6:6 Or came thronging; also verses 11, 15 [2] 6:16 Aramaic answered and said; also verse 20 (ESV) Gospels and Epistles: Luke 3:23–4:13 Luke 3:23–4:13 (Listen) The Genealogy of Jesus Christ 23 Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,1 the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. The Temptation of Jesus 4 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. 3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” 4 And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’” 5 And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,   “‘You shall worship the Lord your God,    and him only shall you serve.’” 9 And he took him to Jerusalem and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written,   “‘He will command his angels concerning you,    to guard you,’ 11 and   “‘On their hands they will bear you up,    lest you strike your foot against a stone.’” 12 And Jesus answered him, “It is said, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 And when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from him until an opportune time. Footnotes [1] 3:27 Greek Salathiel (ESV)

Daniel 2:1-13, 16-23, 26-28, 46-491 In the second year of his reign Nebuchadnezzar had many dreams. His mind was disturbed and he suffered from insomnia. 2 The king issued an order to summon the magicians, astrologers, sorcerers, and wise men in order to explain his dreams to him. So they came and awaited the king’s instructions.3 The king told them, “I have had a dream, and I am anxious to understand the dream.” 4 The wise men replied to the king: [What follows is in Aramaic] “O king, live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will disclose its interpretation.” 5 The king replied to the wise men, “My decision is firm. If you do not inform me of both the dream and its interpretation, you will be dismembered and your homes reduced to rubble! 6 But if you can disclose the dream and its interpretation, you will receive from me gifts, a reward, and considerable honor. So disclose to me the dream and its interpretation.” 7 They again replied, “Let the king inform us of the dream; then we will disclose its interpretation.” 8 The king replied, “I know for sure that you are attempting to gain time, because you see that my decision is firm. 9 If you don’t inform me of the dream, there is only one thing that is going to happen to you. For you have agreed among yourselves to report to me something false and deceitful until such time as things might change. So tell me the dream, and I will have confidence that you can disclose its interpretation.”10 The wise men replied to the king, “There is no man on earth who is able to disclose the king’s secret, for no king, regardless of his position and power, has ever requested such a thing from any magician, astrologer, or wise man. 11 What the king is asking is too difficult, and no one exists who can disclose it to the king, except for the gods—but they don’t live among mortals!”12 Because of this the king got furiously angry and gave orders to destroy all the wise men of Babylon. 13 So a decree went out, and the wise men were about to be executed. They also sought Daniel and his friends so that they could be executed.16 So Daniel went in and requested the king to grant him time, that he might disclose the interpretation to the king. 17 Then Daniel went to his home and informed his friends Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah of the matter. 18 He asked them to pray for mercy from the God of heaven concerning this mystery so that he and his friends would not be destroyed along with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. 19 Then in a night vision the mystery was revealed to Daniel. So Daniel praised the God of heaven, 20 saying: “Let the name of God be praised forever and ever, for wisdom and power belong to him.21 He changes times and seasons, deposing some kings and establishing others. He gives wisdom to the wise; he imparts knowledge to those with understanding;22 he reveals deep and hidden things. He knows what is in the darkness, and light resides with him.23 O God of my fathers, I acknowledge and glorify you, for you have bestowed wisdom and power on me. Now you have enabled me to understand what we requested from you. For you have enabled us to understand the king’s dilemma.”26 The king then asked Daniel (whose name was also Belteshazzar), “Are you able to make known to me the dream that I saw, as well as its interpretation?” 27 Daniel replied to the king, “The mystery that the king is asking about is such that no wise men, astrologers, magicians, or diviners can possibly disclose it to the king. 28 However, there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in the times to come.46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar bowed down with his face to the ground and paid homage to Daniel. He gave orders to offer sacrifice and incense to him. 47 The king replied to Daniel, “Certainly your God is a God of gods and Lord of kings and revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery!” 48 Then the king elevated Daniel to high position and bestowed on him many marvelous gifts. He granted him authority over the entire province of Babylon and made him the main prefect over all the wise men of Babylon. 49 And at Daniel’s request, the king appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego over the administration of the province of Babylon. Daniel himself served in the king’s court.

So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

Daniel Egli is the Chief Financial Officer at Russell Stover Chocolates, based in Kansas City.  His journey began in Switzerland where be grew up and worked out of college.   Egli worked for Proctor and Gamble for 14 years mostly in his native Switzerland before moving to Boston to serve as head of financial planning and analysis for P&G.   He was hired by Russell Stover in December of 2017 as CFO, responsible for finance and accounting, procurement, supply chain planning and IT.   Joel spoke with Daniel about his responsibilities, leadership and the culture at Russell Stover.   TRANSCRIPT: Joel Goldberg: My guest on this episode is Daniel Egli. He is the Chief Financial Officer at Russell Stover chocolates and we have had this podcast scheduled in the works for a very long time. Joel Goldberg: We just didn't think when we scheduled it that will be we will be in these times, but that's the world that we're living in Daniel, thanks for joining the podcast. Daniel Egli: Thank you Joel, for having me.  Joel Goldberg: It’s good to it's good to catch up. And I know way back to normal times you and I went for coffee on the plaza. And we had bad at an event before that.  Joel Goldberg: So I do, as is the case on this podcast and I've told you this I like to think more, you know, big picture bigger concept. So I don't want to get too tied up with with how things are going. But we'll talk about it a little bit because, as this is released. Joel Goldberg: A little bit after we've recorded this you know people are still adjusting to these times, and new normals, but how have you through all this and with your, your position of Russell Stover handled all the changing times. Daniel Egli: It’s been it's been crazy, you know, we've been working from home now for two months, it's certainly been a big change. Daniel Egli: But, you know, on a positive note. The think, you know, we're still making chocolate and the business keeps on going. The organization has definitely adapted well working remotely. And on a personal note, they've enjoyed spending more time with my family. So, so there's positives as well. Joel Goldberg: There’s positives to everything. I really believe that. And I know for Joel Goldberg: For some situations, many situations, that's easier said than done, but the family time truly has been great. My wife was talking about that recently. I mean, I'm never home.  I was home for Mother's Day from, from the moment we woke up to the moment we went to bed versus if I was lucky to be in town. Joel Goldberg: You know there for a couple hours and then hopefully home for dinner. So there's been a lot of positives to, you know, you said something that's interesting to me, you said, while we're still making chocolate. And I think that when when there's a lot of stress eating going on. Joel Goldberg: You know, and so I find myself. Definitely having more of a sweet tooth and you know that maybe maybe a few extra Bourbons is my choice and definitely a lot of a lot of chocolate but I assume that you are seeing plenty of demand for your product still Daniel Egli: Yeah, I mean, people still eat chocolate in these times maybe even, even more so in these times, right, I mean you maybe want to treat yourself. Daniel Egli: More and more often, when you say that. Oh, man. Yeah, well, that's, that's what we're here for. Joel Goldberg: Exactly. That's what you're here for. So there's so much I want to talk to you about in terms of your background. Joel Goldberg: And also in terms of culture of Russell Stover that was really the the original reason for why I wanted to have you on I'll, I'll preface, all of this by saying that you and I met at an event. Joel Goldberg: And you may remember now better than me. I feel like it was February I don't, I don't remember, but it's right. Yeah, yeah. I've been, you know, a while back. Joel Goldberg: And it was funny because I was moderating a panel of a bunch of executives, I was Scott havens, who many people know how to organize this at mariner wealth and Scott's with hub international and it was that marriage or wealth and he talked about what what I was going to ask everybody, you know, kind of going Joel Goldberg: Down the line in terms of answers and perspectives and in front of an audience. Joel Goldberg: And I think one of the questions was a baseball themed question in the front. I could see and hear the panic in your voice about it. Do I need to talk about baseball and and I assured, you know. And that was true for even now podcast that has the title rounding the bases. So this isn't important. But I figured my listeners will get a kick out of it on a scale of one to 10. What is your baseball knowledge. Daniel Egli: Well, I'm still probably like two or three, I would say.  Joel Goldberg: Better. It was my way of leading to the fact that you are, for sure. The first guest that I had on the show that is from Switzerland, and I'm sure that that people heard the accent a little bit. So can you give a little bit of a background of how you ended up in the states and then eventually a Russell Stover as as a kid that grew up in Switzerland. Daniel Egli: Yeah, sure, sure. Well, I've been here in Kansas City with Russell Stover since December 17 but I actually worked out of Boston before joining Russell Stover So working with Gillette as part of the Procter and Gamble company I've been with Procter and Gamble for about 14 years working mostly in Europe, Geneva Zurich spent some time in the UK and then Daniel Egli: Joined the Gillette business unit in Boston. So that's how I love to the United States. And then I was approached the you know about the the opportunity of Russell Stover that's that's kind of how I got to Kansas City certainly never thought that would you know, live in Kansas City. But here I am enjoying it. Joel Goldberg: Yeah, I mean, it's always one of my favorite questions, not so much where you live, but just, could you have envisioned doing what you're doing when you grew up, or maybe better phrased. What were what were the dreams of the young Daniel Egli. Daniel Egli: Well you know I as a high school student I spent a year in Canada, an exchange some year and ever since I have this desire to, you know, experience other countries and not just travel, they were on vacation, but also live and work in other countries. So Daniel Egli: Since then, I was really aiming to have a an international career. And when I finished my studies join Procter and Gamble, which, you know, as you know, is an international company that offers. International career opportunities so was kind of from a pretty young age on my desire. Joel Goldberg: So I'll backtrack, just a little bit and I would I would assume that Canada, much more similar to the United States than Switzerland or maybe not, I'm not sure.  Daniel Egli: No, it is very similar to the United States. All that I think many Canadians like to make highlight the differences, but yes. It's pretty similar in terms of the lifestyle that we see the language. Same where i where i was i was in the western part of Canada so Joel Goldberg: It was speaking part of where we're in. We're in Western Canada where you and I wasn't in Vancouver Island. Okay. Joel Goldberg: Beautiful, beautiful. Yes. Yeah, sounds sound awful. And I remember you talking about that when we went for coffee truly one of the most beautiful areas in all of North America. Daniel Egli: For anyone and and for me, having I've got really two connections. I guess to Canada one Daniel Egli: I like to call myself quarter Canadian which basically translates into my grandmother emigrated to Canada, when she was a kid and she was the only one in a big family that ended up in the United States. Daniel Elgi: Once she got married and all the rest of them. To this day, if they're alive or their, their offspring are still in Canada. So, you know, we would go up to Canada from time to time. Not as much now. Joel Goldberg: As kids and then having a covered a lot of hockey for years. So I go up there and I've been a pretty much all the NHL cities and then we go in normal years. Not this year, I guess. Joel Goldberg: We go to Toronto once a year. So it is a, it's a different world up there. But that's still a lot of similarities to to hear what what did that experience for you in molding you being an exchange student very far from home. How did that multi think to where you're at today. Daniel Egli: Well, you know, I think it has a pretty big impact on the young person. I mean, you're definitely way out of your comfort zone when you you know I was 17 years old when I when I left there and Daniel Egli: You, you obviously learn to kind of find your own way and the become more independent more mature. So yeah, I mean it certainly had a big impact. The think for me personally, I made a big step forward in that year and that I noticed that when I came back and you know you Daniel Egli: Kind of, talk to your friends that were in the same place during that time and the, you know, this kind of, okay, how, how far you've come as a, as a person, how much you've developed mature. Joel Goldberg: Was the was the interest in finance and obviously the chief finance officer at at Russell Stover now. And, you know, have all the financial history from Procter and Gamble and even before that, what was it always a Joel Goldberg: Driver a passion to go towards, towards that. And the things the finance world. Daniel Egli: I studied international business. So I was not something that I had in mind. At the very beginning when I when I entered university but Daniel Egli: Yeah, it says just kind of through kind of trial and error different internships and you know different conversations kind of ended up in the in that in that area. Joel Goldberg: And it's so now here you are in the, in the world of chocolate. Chocolate needs finance, I guess, and and so You know, you said before you never envisioned that you would end up in Kansas City, but not only you in Kansas City, you're working for a very famous company what what do you love about working in Russell Stover and beyond the chocolate. Joel Goldberg: Which probably everybody that you know asks about chocolate or or that type of stuff. You got to be a very popular guy at Christmas time, I would imagine what what what do you like about working at Russell Stover Daniel Egli: You know, I, you know, it's certainly a very interesting brand has been around for 100 years It's we're currently going through a transformation, really, you know, there's a lot of changes that happened in terms of consumer preferences, the way Daniel Egli: You know shoppers shop nowadays. So it's really for me comes down to making an impact on a on a brand that consumers love that they know that has a long history and really having that impact and, you know, Daniel Egli: Hopefully, you know, to the positive sense that, you know, finding a profitable way to grow in the future and the to continue to Daniel Egli: The to make a good chocolates that PETA. People want so so that's what it comes down to, for me, and how, how have things changed. I mean, Joel Goldberg: Nothing obviously in the world. I'm not talking about pandemic, but nothing in the world today is the same for a company that was around 100 years ago would have been sort of the biggest changes. Joel Goldberg: In recent years for Russell Stover and the challenges of of keeping up with the time so i mean i chocolate good chocolates good chocolate. Joel Goldberg: That I hope and would think would never change. But, but I know it's not that simple either Daniel Egli: Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, you can look at this from different angles. I mean, there's, you know, the competitive landscape has changed so consumers have different choices. Daniel Egli: Nowadays, there's new new products, new brands on the market. So that's, that's one aspect. Daniel Egli: And then the other aspect is also how people shop. You know, if you know probably even now it's it's it's even accelerating, but people shop in a different way. Nowadays, many people shop online or they they go to different retailers. So that's also something that we need to adjust to and adapt. Joel Goldberg: Again, I think that it helps when you have a brand name, An institutional name like a Russell Stover that Joel Goldberg: Nothing's guaranteed right i mean good product and everything you're talking about matters but but what does it mean to have the Russell Stover name Daniel Egli: Well, I think it's a huge asset. I mean, it's, it's a, you know, it's something. It's a brand that consumers trust that consumers know and i think that's that's an asset that we're You know, we're capitalizing on. I mean we we have a big opportunity, I think in terms of, you know, the brand awareness and Daniel Egli: You know, obviously focused on bringing new innovation that that help us grow in the future. One of those examples is sugar free, sugar free businesses doing Daniel Egli: phenomenally well and has been doing well for the last few years. And I think that's just one of the aspects that is in our favor in terms of changing consumer tastes and demands that we can satisfy Joel Goldberg: You obviously have a big role at Russell Stover and to the topics that I love to talk about certainly on this podcast and then also to Joel Goldberg: You know, to audiences when I'm speaking our leadership and culture. Both are obviously elements that are extremely important to you in your world. My first question to you regarding that is about leadership and Joel Goldberg: One, how, how many people are you overseeing and then the maybe the deeper question and one that I always like to ask is, when you come into a new role when you're new to an organization. Joel Goldberg: I'm always fascinated by those initial discussions and you know how you build trust with your team and and you know adapt to that situation and Joel Goldberg: And being the new guy, so to speak. So how many people, and what were those early days like for you.  Daniel Egli: Yeah, well, you know, I’m besides finance also responsible for it procurement and supply chain planning. So it's a group of about a little over 100 people Daniel Egli: Mostly based here in Kansas City and and yeah you know the first few days, I have to say that was a you know it's it's it was a big change for me. You know, I Daniel Egli: I worked for the same company for you know 14 years and, you know, you kind of know the culture, you know, even even go to a different office. They're always kind of commonalities and Daniel Egli: You know when you change company, obviously you don't have that familiarity. So, so it was you know spent a lot of time talking to different people meeting people and It's so obviously a lot of new information you have to absorb and a lot of it has to do with getting to know the organization, besides getting to know the business, obviously. Joel Goldberg: And then what for you were the keys in building those relationships with your employees as, as I'm sure they're sitting there saying, you know, who Joel Goldberg: Who is this. Who is this new guy and you know, and this guy isn't from here and and of course you've been in the States, a long time, but I don't care. Joel Goldberg: I don't care if you're coming from another place and other shop in town. You're the new guy and everybody's looking Joel Goldberg: You know, what's my new boss, like what is, what is it going to be like to interact with. So what are, what were some of the strategies that you had coming in to build that rapport with your people. Daniel Egli: And you know, it's, it's, you know, I've tried to be very open and, you know, communicate the log to share Daniel Egli: Share with my organization more about my background where I'm at, where I am as a person what what my values are so that really making an extra effort to share more about me so they they know you know Daniel Egli: me as a person and and also being open, you know, really. Daniel Egli: Having an open to also encouraging people to to come up when they have questions or when they have an issue and and yeah, trying to do everything I could to to get the communication going and to maybe yeah, make make make people comfortable in speaking coming up with to me.  Joel Goldberg: I Want to go back to a little bit of the pandemic, as we're recording this. What have been some of your strategies in terms of communication in a world that we're living in which, which has been dominated by zoom or whatever your, you know, whatever your choice platform is Daniel Egli: Yeah. Well, we certainly spent more time communicating. So we, you know, it starts with the executive team where we have a daily connect instead of just the weekly Daniel Egli: Meeting and then with my team as well. It's just, you know, spending quite a lot of time connecting with people. One on one or in smaller groups and making sure that Daniel Egli: Yeah, we all kind of stay connected we know what we're working on and and not only from a business standpoint, but also checking in how people have people doing you know it's it's obviously it's been this this stressful time and people Daniel Egli: Process this in different ways. You have the full spectrum you have some people that are worried about the virus situation you have others that are less so. So it's just kind of figuring that out and Daniel Egli: That's kind of the approach I took.  Joel Goldberg: I think you're there been so many lessons to learn in this to our their elements of communication or the way that they you have gone about your business. During these these unique times I guess I could call it that, that you'll take and not just learn from but but implement or other elements of what's going on now. That'll be part of the future. Daniel Egli: And you know, I think. So we have more shorter meetings, but more frequent which I have to say, that's fine. Shorter meetings to be more productive. And that's, that's something that I think that I would want to continue Daniel Egli: I think also having giving people flexibility, you know, maybe having giving people more room to work from home. When they when they need to, or when they want to, because I think we've shown that we can get the work done. Productivity, I think, is still in a good place. And I think that that is something that is of value. Joel Goldberg: Yeah, I'm completely fascinated by what this looks like, you know, next year, five year whenever this is all done. Joel Goldberg: Just the way the world changes and you know the way office space changes and communication and all that we've certainly had our eyes open. Joel Goldberg: To a lot of different elements. Oh, one more thing pandemic related to a minute. I think what you know is so interesting about these times, is this is not just a Joel Goldberg: A certain cities problem or a certain countries problem. Everyone in some form or another is dealing with this around the world. What do you hear from back home in Switzerland. Daniel Egli: And yeah, it looked at said it's a similar situation is here. People you know restaurants were closed shops were closed are now starting to to reopen Daniel Egli: I think it's fairly similar. I have to say it was not as strict as the situation in Italy. So, you know,  Not, not quite as bad as that but the I think pretty comparable to how things were handled here in Kansas City area. Joel Goldberg: All right, I want to get to my baseball themed questions which once again I assured Daniel would not be baseball questions. I assure that to every guest but Joel Goldberg: If he is saying that the baseball knowledge is somewhere around a two or three out of 10 this will not be anything about baseball strategy. Joel Goldberg: baseball predictions or anything of that matter. I'm in the baseball prediction business, I guess, and I give up after what's going on during the pandemic. I'm not going to try either, but the baseball theme question is this. Professionally speaking Joel Goldberg: You know, in all your years and I'm, I'm looking through the LinkedIn profile and whether it be the 14 years of Procter and Gamble, I should I should do a quick sidebar here. Joel Goldberg: It says that you are a financial analyst know three to five for financial animal analysis and planning Western Europe denture care and whitening. I didn't so Joel Goldberg: That's that's unique background for a guy that found Russell Stover I would think. Daniel Egli: Yeah, well, let's say it was a interesting business to work on. Definitely. Yeah. Joel Goldberg: That was the maybe one of the stars of the career. Like, I guess. Yes. Many years ago, so I'm assuming that that's not the big home run. Joel Goldberg: But the question, what's the biggest home run. You've had professionally in your career or in Joel Goldberg: In layman's or non baseball terms would spend the biggest moment for you. What's been that you know that the huge impactful moment in your career. Daniel Egli: Yeah, sure. Well, you know, I, I would say that, you know, I've been very fortunate to grow throughout my career and, you know, assuming Daniel Egli: More responsibilities as I changed into different roles. So I would say that at any you know those different stages, there were always kind of those homerun moments, but you know when I reflected this today, I would certainly say that you know I love the role that I'm in right now. Daniel Egli: For me, you know, being able to shape the direction the strategy of real Stover and starting to see the results of that work that's that's been hugely satisfying. You know, we had a good year in 2019 in terms of the business results. And also, frankly, from an organization standpoint. So you know we measure that organization health via a survey quarterly survey. Daniel Egli: And, you know, we've made some really good progress. And that's, you know, I'm proud of that the progress that we're able to make here at Russel Stover. Joel Goldberg: Okay, so that's the the positives. Let's go to the negative, which I don't necessarily view as a negative i. The swing and miss question to me. Joel Goldberg: Is essentially a learning experience. You know what, what, what's something you missed on that you learn from. And I think we grow from those that that's my personal opinion. So what's a big swing and miss. You've taken in your career. And what did you learn from this Daniel Egli: Well, I would say that, you know, some of the most important decisions I make our people relate to them, you know, hiring decision. Daniel Egli: And moving people into different roles, maybe for all being the responsibilities. So, you know, as you do that, you obviously take risks and you know in many, many times. This worked out well. But, you know, obviously it's not the 100% success rate. Daniel Egli: So sometimes those decisions don't work out as planned, and You know that's that's what I would say to that to the learning for me, you know, in terms of hiring. For instance, you know, there's certainly and methods to, you know, how you conduct an interview, there's Daniel Egli: Certain best practices. You can follow in terms of having several people interview person references, etc. But I think there's also the maybe the the less tangible part which is maybe your, your gut feel. And your, your instincts that I feel are equally important as you as you make those decisions. And that's certainly something that, you know, over the years, and Daniel Egli: I have kind of improved on our learned on from from experience.  Joel Goldberg: Yeah, I just want to follow up on that, because that's that's always fascinating to me too. How much, how much do you weigh that gut feeling. Daniel Egli: Well, you know, I, I'm more an analytical person and focus more on kind of the facts and all that, but I think there is an element of judgment because obviously when you interview people you only see them for a very limited amount of time and Joel Goldberg: Some people are very articulate and others maybe struggle a little bit more right to convince you in a in a short period of time. So I think that's, that's something that over time. I, I kind of refined, more and I find that I could be more maybe use that for the more I rely more on my instinct now than I did earlier in my career. Definitely. Yeah. Joel Goldberg: So intrigued by that. Just on a side note, because in the baseball one. I think it's true in anything you have sort of your Joel Goldberg: Non numbers go by the gut. In in in athletics. It's usually the former players that they trust their eyes and then you might have sort of the younger or the new school that that have the numbers. And what happens over time is Joel Goldberg: Eventually, those that trust the numbers. Joel Goldberg: Will start to go a little bit of the gut instinct and those that that live on the instinct start to learn more about the numbers and he kind of start to marry some of that together, so it's Joel Goldberg: I think if there's always kind of a, a harmony to that when you can when you can when you can blend it all together and use it all as tools. So this is my take. But Joel Goldberg: The final baseball. Question is what I call the culture question and and and I'd like to put it in terms of Russell Stover because I’m I'm interested in in the culture there. We know about chocolate but it's small ball. Meaning, what are the little things. Joel Goldberg: That add up to the big things in baseball terms. It's not all about the homerun I call it you know the little bits of foundation. What make you who you are or culture, the backbone of the company. What is small ball. What are the little things that matter at Russell Stover Daniel Egli: Yeah, I think you're, you're right, the kind of the link to culture, you know, Daniel Egli: So reflected on that. I think it's really walking the talk and culture. You know, we have a Daniel Egli: We have documented our values, our culture. You know, it's a nice piece of paper, but in the end. What really matters is that the day today and how you show up with your team and how the rest of the leadership team shows up with their teams. Daniel Egli: So it's really the small things that you do, day in, day out, that are consistent with those values that we have all agreed on. So that could be, you know, sending a thank you note to somebody who's done a nice job or recognizing somebody in a town hall meeting. Daniel Egli: Things like that is small, small things that are, you know, it's just consistency point consistency with the values and that's what that's what I would highlight i think that's that's the important aspect of the culture, not so much what you say it is, but it's what you do, day in, day out. Joel Goldberg: Really interesting and couldn't agree more. So that's it. Joel Goldberg: It's my favorite question actually, because there's never one simple answer to that everybody has so many different perspectives, but Joel Goldberg: I haven't heard a lot of the you know the handwritten note or the personalization and all that and and how far it goes. Okay. Joel Goldberg: For final questions I have not discussed these with you and else I don't say that in any way to to scare you, or anything like that but Joel Goldberg: Oftentimes these are and it's what I call my rounding the basis for final questions there. They can be light hearted, they might not be. But they're, they're kind of things that popped into my head. Joel Goldberg: As I'm going over the course of an interview. And so the the first one that that I would ask you is, in terms of sports. We talked about Joel Goldberg: Not growing up with baseball. I actually, I think I asked you this in person. But what was the sport. What were the sports growing up that you enjoyed in Switzerland. Daniel Egli: Well, I used to play handball when it was young and then it was a little bit older in high school I started playing rugby and picked it up in Canada and played that when it came back. Daniel Egli: So those are the sports a it actively I was a ski. I like outdoor sports hiking, skiing,dabble a little bit and golf, although not very successfully. Joel Goldberg: It sounds like you and I could golf together. Because, because, because dabbling is being generous. For me, it never goes well, but it's still fun so it's it's nice to get outside always Joel Goldberg: Say that much. Okay, the obvious question. My second question is we round the bases favorite, favorite product or chocolate. Joel Goldberg: For you at Russell Stover assuming that you do enjoy chocolate.  Daniel Egli: I do enjoy chocolate. Yeah, well, you know, the, the, the product when when I Daniel Egli: Start with your product that most surprised me was our sugar free products and they test taste really surprisingly good. I mean, considering they don't contain any sugar. It's Stevia sweetened so I really love our sugar free line. Joel Goldberg: And like I would agree with that and an important one. By the way, too. Right. I mean, in, in a world with Joel Goldberg: With you know diabetes and other issues that that that becomes a great option for for so many third question, as we round the bases. It's more of a geography or culture question actually two biggest differences and similarities to Kansas City and Switzerland. Daniel Egli: In Terms of culture, and well, I would say, what's the first thing that comes to mind is, I think, a strong work ethic. I think that's, you know, Daniel Egli: Something that I hear often about people when people talk about the Midwest and that's something that I would say applies to to the Swiss as well. Daniel Egli: Yeah, I would say, kind of a work ethic kind of down to earth mentality that that that's the first thing that comes to mind.  Joel Goldberg: What’s the, what's the kind of traffic and population and everyday living how, how those different Daniel Egli: Oh, well that's very different. I mean you know you. I'm sure you know, for those who have traveled to Europe, they'll know i mean you have much less space in Europe, it's more densely populated then here in Kansas City. Daniel Egli: You have a lot of space. I mean, obviously also around Kansas City. But there's, you know, it's the layout of the city is very different. It's much more oriented towards you know, using the car is Daniel Egli:no shortage of parking spots and it's it's a different lifestyle definitely in Switzerland. It's much more, you know, you walk in a city or use your bicycle or public transport and and here it's it's all designed around using your car. Joel Goldberg: It's a different world for sure over there and and really you know my opinion of amazing when I've not been to Switzerland. So I'd love to add that to the list. I guess the closest I have then will be will be France and Paris. And of course, you know, and Joel Goldberg: In that world over there. You hop on a train and you can, you know, get through to a number of countries in any given day, which is Joel Goldberg: I don't know. I don't know what what we have like that here. I guess it's kind of like like being in Boston, where you live and being able to hop on a train and get to New York, or DC or whatever it is, but Joel Goldberg: We don't really have anything quite like that. Okay. Final question the walk off question and it's a Russel Stover question for you with, with all the history of this great company and the brand name, where, where do you see this going Joel Goldberg: 10 years 20 years down the road so often I have guests on this this podcast that are Joel Goldberg: That are startups and they've got these dreams of hitting a big Russell Stover obviously has been big for a long time. But as you suggested Joel Goldberg: In this episode, that there's constant evolution. You can't stay still, the market changes, where do you see the world going in terms of chocolate in terms of Russell silver and then the next 10-20 years Daniel Egli: Look, I'm very optimistic about the future of Russell silver. I think that brand is as well. No, I think there's many opportunities for us to grow still Daniel Egli: So obviously we have a successful sugar free align that continues to grow. We have strengths and other parts of the business. So the Valentine arts or, you know, Easter rabbits and our gift box that you may enjoy in the in the Christmas period. Daniel Egli: So I think that for me, it's, it's about, you know, coming up with innovation that you know make the brand rejuvenate the brand, make it Daniel Egli: More relevant to also to to a younger consumer group and getting getting more people to buy Russell silver chocolate. I think we we have, you know, some interesting you know innovation in the pipeline and I'm looking forward to seeing those in the market place soon. Joel Goldberg: Well, it's always changing. I know that. And then some things of course will in some form or another. Always stay the same. I mean, there, there are Joel Goldberg: People have certain elements of sweets and chocolate that they will always love there there we can call whatever we want guilty pleasure, whatever, whatever it is that, that'll always be around, so it's it's interesting to see. Joel Goldberg: How things are going to change how they evolve and certainly you talked about it before, too, in terms of in terms of selling and online and all that the world will will continue to change so well. Joel Goldberg: That these are my two hopes and promises one hope we can get out for coffee again when when the time is come down or when they become safer and and what I, you know, I've got this like, you know, thought or hope that I can at least get your baseball interest from like a 2 to a 4 Daniel Egli: I'll work on my baseball and all its yeah but looking looking forward to the season, starting at some point.Hopefully I can get out there and watch the game, some time.  Joel Goldberg: Well, I'll help you with that. Not that you need the help, but you know, I'll try to do my part, I don't need to convert you or anything like that. I just want to make sure that I've at least tried to do my part in this one is not all about baseball and but you know it's a bit of my world, so to speak, so Joel Goldberg: Yeah yeah hey we both have we both have jobs that people can understand or at least brands that they understand. So, you know, certainly people always want to talk baseball with me and I'm Joel Goldberg: Sure, there's not a day that goes by that that people don't ask you something. Chocolate related, but hopefully this was a conversation more than that. And it was Joel Goldberg: It was great to be able to dive into the the culture and in your background. It's been a long time coming. So Daniel. I really appreciate you spending the time I'm glad you're here in Kansas City, and I Joel Goldberg: Can officially say that my first ever Swiss guest on rounding the bases. It took like 90 episodes was Daniel Egli, so it's groundbreaking for me. But hey, I appreciate you spending the time best of health to you and your family and I look forward to seeing you soon.  Daniel Egli: My pleasure. Thank you. Joel Goldberg: That's going to do it for another episode of rounding the bases, I'm Joel over. You can reach me at joelgoldbergmedia.com you can email at info@joelgoldbergmedia.com or find me on social media. I'm all over the place there. Joel Goldberg: Thanks for listening. I'd love it if you jump on to and give a five star rating on iTunes hope to catch you next time on rounding the bases.        

Do you remember your most recent dream? What was it about? What did it mean? I only remember a few of my dreams, mainly because they were delivering very clear messages from God. Messages that helped me to re-focus rather quickly! Dreams and messages - don't ignore them. One of my dreams that I remember most clearly came soon after Ken and I were married. One night we had an argument. Ken went for a walk. I was emotionally exhausted so went to bed, and promptly fell asleep. I had a very vivid dream, with one lasting image - our bed, Ken lying on one side, me on the other side, and a huge snake lying in between us. On seeing this image I woke up, phoned Ken asking him to come back immediately. He did. We apologised to each other, forgave each other and prayed. I believe that dream was from God, a warning that there needed to be unity in our marriage as the enemy was already planning on how to cause division, after only a few weeks of marriage. Yes, God can speak to us through dreams. And He wants us to listen. King Nebuchadnezzar's dream A friend recently shared a link to one of Ravi Zacharias' last sermons. In the sermon he illustrated the importance of seeking God's wisdom by recounting a story from the book of Daniel, King Nebuchadnezzar's request for the Chaldeans to make known to him his dream and its interpretation. It's a great story of how God delivers messages through dreams. In the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams by which his spirit was troubled and agitated and his sleep went from him. Then the king commanded to call the magicians, the enchanters or soothsayers, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans [diviners], to tell the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king. And the king said to them, I had a dream and my spirit is troubled to know the dream. Daniel 2:1-3 AMPC However, the Chaldeans wanted the king to tell them the dream first, and then they would respond with the interpretation. Then said the Chaldeans [diviners] to the king in Aramaic [the Syrian language], O king, live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will show the interpretation. Daniel 2:4 AMPC No man on earth can do that But Nebuchadnezzar insisted - both the dream and the interpretation. And the Chaldeans continued to resist. They knew they had no way of knowing what Nebuchadnezzar's dream was because, as they expressed, they had felt only the gods could reveal that to the king. The Chaldeans [diviners] answered before the king and said, There is not a man on earth who can show the king this matter, for no king, lord, or ruler has [ever] asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or Chaldean. A rare and weighty thing indeed the king requires! None except the gods can reveal it to the king, and their dwelling is not with [human] flesh. Daniel 2:10-11 AMPC The Chaldeans did not have a relationship with the one true God, the living God. They didn't have access to His wisdom. The Message Bible says it like this, The fortunetellers said, "Nobody anywhere can do what you ask. And no king, great or small, has ever demanded anything like this from any magician, enchanter or fortuneteller. What you're asking is impossible unless some god or goddess should reveal it - and they don't hang around with people like us. Daniel 2:10-11 The Message Nebuchadnezzar wants answers Nebuchadnezzar obviously wasn't very happy with the response from the Chaldeans. He wanted answers! That set the king off. He lost his temper and ordered the whole company of Babylonian wise men killed. When the death warrant was issued, Daniel and his companions were included. They also were marked for execution. Daniel 2:12-13 The Message Daniel did have a relationship with the living God, and he had confidence that God would give him wisdom to respond correctly to the king's request - providing both the dream and the interpretation. So Daniel asked the king for a little extra time to provide an answer to his request. The mystery is solved Then Daniel went to his house, and made the decision known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions, that they might seek mercies from the God of heaven concerning this secret, so that Daniel and his companions might not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. Then the secret was revealed to Daniel that night in a vision So Daniel blessed the God of heaven. Daniel 2: 17-19 NKJV Daniel then went back to Nebuchadnezzar and gave him the answer. He prefaced his response with acknowledgement of where the wisdom came from. Daniel answered the king, "No mere human can solve the king's mystery, I don't care who it is - no wise man, enchanter, magician, diviner. But there is a God in heaven who solves mysteries, and he has solved this one. He is letting King Nebuchadnezzar in on what is going to happen in the days ahead. This is the dream you had when you were lying on your bed, the vision that filled your mind. Daniel 2:27-28 The Message Godly wisdom This story makes me think about James 1:5, a scripture I have posted on the wall near my desk, If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking. James 1:5 NLT God speaks to us through dreams So dreams and messages ... God uses dreams to tell us about our future, just as He did with King Nebuchadnezzar. And God can give us wisdom regarding the interpretation of our dreams, just like He did for Daniel. We just need to ask Him for His wisdom. Sometimes God uses dreams to give us information about situations, to give us greater understanding and essentially encouraging us to trust that He has got the situation sorted. God did that for Joseph when he found out Mary was pregnant. Her fiance, Joseph, was a righteous man, full of integrity and he didn't want to disgrace her, but when he learned of her pregnancy he secretly planned to break the engagement. While he was still debating with himself about what to do, he fell asleep and had a supernatural dream. An angel from the Lord appeared to him in clear light and said, "Joseph, descendant of David, don't hesitate to take Mary into your home as your wife, because the power of the Holy Spirit has conceived a child in her womb. She will give birth to a son and you are to name him 'Saviour,' for he is destined to give his life to save his people from their sins." ... When Joseph awoke from his dream, he did all that the angel of the Lord instructed him to do. Matthew 1:19-21, 24 TPT God warns us through dreams Sometimes God uses dreams to give us warnings. Again He spoke to Joseph via a dream, warning him about Herod's plans to kill Jesus. Now when they had departed, behold an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him." When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt. Matthew 2:13-14 NKJV Note, the 'they' who had departed, were they wise men, who had also received a warning from God in a dream. Afterward they returned to their own country by another route because God had warned them in a dream not to go back to Herod. Matthew 2:12 TPT Note 2: What is it with these Kings who get angry, albiet for different reasons, frustration and fear, and then respond with killing - Nebuchadnezzar and all the wise men of Babylon; Herod kills every baby boy two years old and younger in Bethlehem. This is the fallen world we live in. God uses dreams to give us directions In Egypt God speaks to Joseph again in a dream, this time, to give Joseph clear direction on where to go next. Now when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child's life are dead. Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel. Matthew 3:19-21 NKJV But then Joseph is concerned because Herod's son is now in control in Judea, so in another dream God gives Joseph further instructions. But when he heard that Archelaus, Herod's son, had succeeded him as ruler over all the territory of Judah, he was afraid to go back. Then he had another dream from God, warning him to avoid that region and instructing him instead to go to the province of Galilee. So he settled his family in the village of Nazareth, fulfilling the prophecy that he would be known as the "Branch." Matthew 2:22-23 TPT God's instructions and our obedience How obedient is Joseph? After each of these dreams where he received the information, warnings and instructions from God, Joseph did what God asked of him. Furthermore, some of those actions fulfilled prophecy from the Old Testament. So how important is it that we consider our dreams, asking God if He is giving us a message in them. And how important is it, to do whatever He asks us to do. God has the big picture Remember God has the big picture. He has the plan and He will reveal our next step, maybe via a dream, at the right time. To finish, let's meditate on what Daniel said when God revealed the mystery of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream to him ... That night the answer to the mystery was given to Daniel in a vision. Daniel blessed the God of heaven, saying, "Blessed be the name of God, forever and ever. He knows all, does all: He changes the seasons and guides history, He raises up kings and also brings them down, he provides both intelligence and discernment, He opens up the depths, tells secrets, Sees in the dark - light spills out of him! God of all my ancestors, all thanks! all praise! You made me wise and strong. And now you've shown us what we asked for. You've solved the king's mystery." Daniel 2:19-23 The Message To find out more please visit https://wendyrobinson.com.au

Daniel 1:1-21 NKJV 1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the articles of the house of God, which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the articles into the treasure house of his god. 3 Then the king instructed Ashpenaz, the master of his eunuchs, to bring some of the children of Israel and some of the king’s descendants and some of the nobles, 4 young men in whom there was no blemish, but good-looking, gifted in all wisdom, possessing knowledge and quick to understand, who had ability to serve in the king’s palace, and whom they might teach the language and literature of the Chaldeans. 5 And the king appointed for them a daily provision of the king’s delicacies and of the wine which he drank, and three years of training for them, so that at the end of that time they might serve before the king. 6 Now from among those of the sons of Judah were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah. 7 To them the chief of the eunuchs gave names: he gave Daniel the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abed-Nego. 8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king’s delicacies, nor with the wine which he drank; therefore he requested of the chief of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself. 9 Now God had brought Daniel into the favor and goodwill of the chief of the eunuchs. 10 And the chief of the eunuchs said to Daniel, “I fear my lord the king, who has appointed your food and drink. For why should he see your faces looking worse than the young men who are your age? Then you would endanger my head before the king.” 11 So Daniel said to the steward whom the chief of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 12 “Please test your servants for ten days, and let them give us vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then let our appearance be examined before you, and the appearance of the young men who eat the portion of the king’s delicacies; and as you see fit, so deal with your servants.” 14 So he consented with them in this matter, and tested them ten days. 15 And at the end of ten days their features appeared better and fatter in flesh than all the young men who ate the portion of the king’s delicacies. 16 Thus the steward took away their portion of delicacies and the wine that they were to drink, and gave them vegetables. 17 As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had ounderstanding in all visions and dreams. 18 Now at the end of the days, when the king had said that they should be brought in, the chief of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar. 19 Then the king interviewed them, and among them all none was found like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah; therefore they served before the king. 20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding about which the king examined them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers who were in all his realm. 21 Thus Daniel continued until the first year of King Cyrus.

Have you ever wondered what it means to be a professional conversation designer? Listen as your host Douglas Ferguson and his guest Daniel Stillman, the founder of the Conversation Factory and a master facilitator, discuss what it means to be a conversation designer and much more in this episode of the Control Room Podcast. Daniel shares how he got started as a conversation designer and why he believes that everything is an active conversation. He speaks about what he would change about meetings and why having a narrative with an opening, exploration, and closing is essential in a productive conversation. Listen as Douglas and Daniel discuss impromptu networking, the best questions to ask, and the definition of appreciative inquiry. They also talk about meeting mantras and why they are so important. Daniel shares his take on why using sticky notes is so effective in the ideation process and how to translate the practice to the virtual landscape. Daniel also explains how to host a virtual rock, paper, scissors tournament; it's both crazy and fun. Order a copy of Daniel’s book Good Talk, How to Design Conversations that Matter', available now. Show Highlights [00:50] Welcome. [01:02] Daniel's journey as a conversation designer. [04:01] Teaching design thinking to non-designers. [04:48] Everything is a conversation. [07:43] Providing an interface for an important idea for a product. [08:34] One thing Daniel would change when it comes to having meetings. [11:06] A narrative is crucial in conversations–opening, exploring, and closing. [13:19] Closing out daily meetings with precision. [16:14] The power of impromptu networking to make meetings better. [19:23] Impromptu networking is a great way to model the participation that you expect. [20:34] Daniel's favorite questions to ask. [22:15] Appreciative inquiry, defined. [24:23] The evolution and significance of Daniel's mantra. [26:27] Sticky note ideation heightens focus on specific concepts. [29:03] Reading the room virtually. [31:16] Virtual rock, paper, scissors tournament. [34:47] Ways to signal during virtual group gatherings. [35:48] Distributive facilitation and the future of work. [39:23] Thank you. [41:02] Waiting forever is not a good business plan for your company or your wedding. [43:24] Do large virtual meetings need comedians to keep people interested? [44:57] Daniel's book. [47:23] It has been a pleasure. [47:36] Subscribe. Links | Resources Daniel Stillman Good Talk: How to Design Conversations That Matter LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube About the Guest Daniel Stillman designs conversations for a living and insists that you actually do that too. As an independent design facilitator, he works with clients and organizations of all shapes and sizes (From Google to Visa, to name a few) to help them frame and sustain productive and collaborative conversations, deepen their facilitation skills, and coach them through the innovation process. His first book, The 30 Second Elephant and the Paper Airplane Experiment is about origami and teams and yes, it’s as strange as it sounds. He hosts The Conversation Factory podcast where he interviews leaders, changemakers, and innovators on how they design the conversations in their work and lives.   Full Transcript Intro: Welcome to the Control the Room Podcast, a series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control, and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out, all in the service of having a truly magical meeting. Douglas: Today on Control the Room Podcast, I have Daniel Stillman. Daniel Stillman is a conversation designer, and insists that you're one, too. He is the founder of the Conversation Factory and a master facilitator. Welcome to the podcast, Daniel. Daniel: Douglas, it’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me on. Douglas: Of course. So, Daniel, I’d love to just have the listeners just hear a little bit about how you got started. Daniel: So, this is funny because I was thinking about this during our pre-conversation. You and I have known each other for a while, but there's still stuff we don't know about each other. This came up when we were having a conversation last week, where you're like, “I don't know the story behind that thing. You just assume I know that because I've known you for a couple of years,” stuff I've just never talked about. And so you've heard little snippets. So it's just kind of funny because we're friends, and now I'm telling you my story. I don’t know. Just pulling out for a second on the meta-ness of it all. Douglas: Yeah. And as you know, conversations can get weird. Daniel: Yeah, they sure can. So, wait. What was the question again? How did I—what's my origin story? Douglas: That’s right. Daniel: Was there any radioactive spiders involved in how I got my superpowers? I feel like I found my way into conversation design through design. I remember actually seeing an ad in the New York Times back when people found jobs in the New York Times’ job-wanted section. Like, that was a thing. And I remember seeing this job for an exhibit designer, and I was like, this is so cool, because I had a background in science. I had studied physics in undergrad. And this idea of designing science exhibits—I loved going to museums when I was a kid. I grew up in the Upper West Side of Manhattan. I went to the Museum of Natural History as a kid often. That's where they would just send us on a rainy day. Like, just go there. And this idea of being able to walk into a space and automatically learn just by being immersed in a space, just like, I don’t know. It kind of tickled me. And I wound up going to design school because they had a studio in science-exhibit design. And so I was super-duper excited to learn how to become a designer and how to design spaces for education. But while I was in design school, what I really learned was human-centered design. This idea that, wow, you can just go out into the world and talk to some people and learn about their problems, and then, make some stuff for them that they like, and then find out if they like it, and then, try it out again, make some test iterations. This was, like, 2005, 2006. The idea of human-centered design and design thinking we're really, I mean, nascent in design at the time. Pratt, where I went to school, was still very much form. We studied negative space and curves for entire semester-long classes. And so this idea of designing for people and designing for needs is what really inspired me. But when I got out of school and I started working in a design studio, what I realized was that I actually had to start designing—I didn't know at the time—but I was designing conversations: stakeholder-engagement workshops to try to pull intelligence out of various stakeholders to understand user needs. And so workshop design became a real passion for me. And so that's kind of how I got to where I am today was I realized that design thinking and teaching design thinking to non-designers was something that was really important. I had this fantasy. I was like, if we all knew the rules to the same game, we could play the game. Let's make something that matters together, right? And that to me are like—those are the rules of design thinking. Hey, let's empathize and understand and define and deliver. That's what I do now is I try to inspire people to be intentional about how they create. Douglas: That’s amazing. So, thinking back to when you were just post school and you were starting to have some of those early realizations that everything was a conversation, can you take us to that moment? And what was it that really clicked for you? How did that make you feel, or what was surfacing? Was there something that wasn't quite serving you at the time and you realized there needed to be more, or was it just an observation? Daniel: Actually, I can—I really remember the moment. I went to an event that my friend Jooyoung Oh was running. She was a design researcher at the time, and for many years she worked at Ziba. And at the time—I can’t remember what she was doing—but she did this workshop where she had us do collages of words and pictures that she had printed out on stickers. And we did this visual collage of “my ideal experience for blank is…,” and “my ideal experience for blank is not…” So she gave us these sheets of stickers with words and pictures on them. The pictures were evocative, emotional, suggestive. And we made these collages, and they became a focal point for a dialog. And I remember doing this and I was like, “Oh, my god, this is amazing.” And it seemed so simple. But we had this big meeting coming up with some stakeholders in the consultancy I was working on, and we were doing this big kickoff for this bug-repellent product, which I probably shouldn't talk about. And I said to my boss, he’s like, “We really need to understand all these different stakeholders and what they really think this thing should be.” And I was like, “Oh, my god, I've got a thing for that.” The language I would use now is “I have a design for that conversation.” I explained it to him a little bit, and he squinted his eyes, and he's like, “Okay.” And I'm like, “Dude, you got to trust me on this. I can land this plane. It’s going to get us good information.” And I remember going into that meeting, and we did this exercise. I remember—I literally remember printing out these sheets of these words and these stickers and these images. And one member of the stakeholder team was an engineer, and the other was a marketer. And there was a word that was placed on the is versus the isn't, in either case. The engineer did not want the experience of this chemical bug-repellent product to be magical, and the marketer thought that the experience should be magical. And so what we had was this conversation about magical and what it meant for something to be magical, and why the engineer didn't want it to be magical and why the marketer did want it to be magical. Magical to the marketer meant effortless, easy, efficacious. Boom, done—bugs are gone. And to the engineer, he's like, “If it's magical, then that means that people don't trust it. If it's magical, people don't understand why it works. If it's magical, people can't understand that it's safe and scientific.” And so just from that collaging effort, which some people would deride as goofy, mood boarding, or whatever, it provided us with an opportunity to dive into this really important conversation, which is, What do we want this thing to be, and what do we want our customers to think about it? And what we were doing was providing an interface for the conversation. If we just said, ”Hey, what do you guys want this to be?” it would have seemed like, I don’t know, one, we didn't know our stuff. But by giving them an activity to do, it pulled ideas out of their heads and put them on the wall and allowed us to unpack a really, really important idea for the project. What is magical? Douglas: That's amazing. I think that is a challenge that I see in so many meetings, where two people are using two different words to mean two different things, or they're using the same word to mean different things. And that's a real problem. And often it is not surfaced, and I think that's where a lot of these visual-thinking tools can really surface some of those things and then gives us an opportunity to discuss it. Can shape the narrative. And when I asked you about one thing that you could change about meetings, you talked about this need to have a narrative for our meetings. And just “we're having a meeting” is a flat story, and you're looking for something more dynamic. So tell us a little more about that. Daniel: Well, you were in the room when our friend Allan Chochinov, at the first masterclass, Facilitation Masterclass, you came to in New York, when Allan talked about, what was it, like, a text expander that one of his students made? Allan was an old professor of mine at Pratt. Now he runs the Products of Design program at SVA. And one of his students wrote a text expander so that whenever you write meeting, it erases it. You literally can't write the word meeting, because a meeting is a meaningless word. A meeting can mean so many different things that it means nothing. What are we doing at that meeting? Are we meeting to sing a song together? Are we going caroling. Let's meet to go caroling. Oh, let's meet to align on a decision. Let's meet to figure out what our options are. Let's meet to plan the holiday party. It doesn't mean anything. And so Allan's idea was if you don't have a prototype, you shouldn't have a meeting. If you don't have an object or an interface or a list, a thing to start the conversation off with, you shouldn't have that meeting. And so I think the story of “let's have a meeting” is just, it's a flat story, but it's also just a super-incomplete story. “Let's meet in order to blank, and let's talk about these three things, and I think that we should have process x, y,  and z  to discuss about them. Here's who can make the final decision. I'm just going to be gathering your inputs.” “Oh, okay, cool. I don't want to come to that meeting if I can't make the final decision.” Oh, interesting. Now we have tension and a cliffhanger for how this story is going to end. If you told people the real story of your meeting, most people might not even come to those meetings, which people don't like. “Well, what if I made my meetings optional? People might not come.” And I'm like, “Yeah, well, make your meetings better, make them matter, talk about something that people really care about.” Douglas: That’s amazing. Also, I think the super power of that is when you realize that there's actually multiple narratives, multiple tracks, and that you might need to divide your audience. If someone's focused more strategically and someone else more tactical, being able to split those things rather than jamming everyone together into the same conversation and creating so much discord. Daniel: Yeah. Everybody’s sitting around a table and talking over each other. And yeah, so this is why narrative is important in conversations, at least this idea of opening, exploring, and closing. Years after people come to my Facilitation workshops, the one thing people remember, they forget most things, but the one thing they remember is this idea of opening, exploring, and closing, and having time to both open or diverge and close and converge and making some time in the middle for something interesting to emerge. And I absorbed that idea from Dave Gray's coauthored book, Gamestorming, just the importance of having those three modes of thinking. And I think having that baked into the process and communicating that to people, it just means that we expect that something interesting and surprising will happen. Otherwise, just make a video. Just make a video of what you've decided and just tell everybody. Douglas: It’s fascinating because Dave Gray talks about the explorer section also being referred to as the groan zone because no one typically enjoys it. But the funny thing is most people, their meetings just consist of explorer. Let's just start exploring when we walk in the door, and then we explore until we have to walk out of the door. And that's really unfortunate if you don't give people that time, that boot-up time. I just recently read a book on facilitation that was talking about—they were talking about it as clearing, which I thought was a really fascinating way to think about an opener, is allowing people to clear themselves and get ready for the meeting to start. Daniel: Well, you’re basically closing before you can open. As we all know, if you don't close, you can't open the next—like, if you don't—and I'm sure you've seen this in sprints, right? If people don't close on day one, mapping the problem, it's really hard to open on day two, finding a target. And if you don't close on a target, it makes drawing a set of solutions really, really super hard. And if you refuse to close on a smaller number of prototypes, it means that your last day of the sprint’s going to be a bear because you test everything. Douglas: Yeah. And we've often talked about how critical closing is in the kind of more macro sense as well, because if you aren’t closing out your everyday meetings with precision, then it's really difficult to align on anything. The real, I think pathological cases, when you walk out thinking you're aligned, but you're not, and so everyone else is telling a different narrative. And you were all in the same meeting, so it should sound like it. Daniel: The cost is even higher than that, Douglas, because internally—I think one of the reasons why people pay an external facilitator, one reason why people hire me and hire you, is to create urgency. “Douglas is here. We’ve paid him. It’s expensive. Everyone stop what you’re doing. We have to focus now.” When people have an internal meeting, their urgency isn’t there. There’s no burning platform, like Kotter talks about. There’s no urgency. And so if you don’t close, you push off decisions. And work is a gas. A gas at standard pressure and temperature expands to fill the space available to it. So time creates pressure, and a sprint or a workshop reduces the volume of space we have to it. And if we don't cap things off or tie them off and say that this is the decision we're going to have, and now we're going to move on to the next phase, it's very idealistic to say these things. It is really hard to do, right? It's really hard to say, okay, well, let's just try this thing, or let's move on to the next thing, even though we don't feel we're ready. I hate doing it. I still tell my clients to do it because it's hard. I know it's important to do, and I struggle with it myself. But if we don't do that, what happens is we wind up working nights and weekends. That's the cost—not seeing our families. If we can close in the time that we have proposed, then we can have the rest of our lives back. Douglas: Yeah, well, it's interesting. You talked about it being hard, but the answer really is to disagree and commit. If we can come together and not rely on unanimity, this desire to have everyone agree, then we can get to a point where there is a decision, we're all going to support it, and we're going to see what comes out. And I think the thing that I try to coach people on is there’re one-way doors and two-way doors. So if it's a reversible decision, then why are we working weekends to get this? Daniel: Right. Having kids is not the same thing as, where should we go for vacation? Where you go to vacation is still a reversible because you've gone and you've spent that money; you've gone on that vacation. But you can always just leave early. You know, you can cancel a vacation halfway through. You're like, “I hate it here. Let's go someplace else.” But it is very hard to cancel, not to get into any politics, but once you've got the kid, it's really hard to cancel it. Douglas: That's right. Daniel: Still not impossible. All my friends who are adopted, it's a thing. But it creates repercussions. Douglas: Let’s shift gear a little bit here and talk about impromptu networking. It is a really powerful way to make meetings better. And why is that? Daniel: Oh, right, right, right. This was my—actually, it’s funny. I was only a light dabbler in liberating structures before I worked with you. I remember looking at the website, and I know many people have had this experience of, this is a crazy place on the Internet. You get to the website, and you’re like, wow, there’s a lot of interesting stuff here, but this looks like the ravings of a madman. And having met Keith, I still actually have that same opinion. It is definitely the ravings of a madman. And I had done things like that before. I had started most of my workshops in my early days with “Grab someone and tell them a story, and then, listen to their story,” because creating energy in a workshop or a meeting is a hard job, and it shouldn't be the job, the sole job, the sole responsibility of the facilitator. As I like to say, it's everybody's problem we're here to solve. It's just not my problem, presumably. If people are here, they're buying into the problem. So starting with a conversation or a story or a reflection about an important component of it is really, really great. Plus, conversations are complex, and so the fewer number of people in the conversation, the less complex it can feel. And so if you've got a group of five or ten or fifteen, pairing up with somebody just immediately simplifies the conversation and makes it more intimate. I was talking with somebody today about this. He used to be a teacher. And this “think, pair, share,” which I thought I invented because it rhymes, and I thought I was clever, this is baked into Harvard University’s education best practices initiative. And every teacher already knows this. Think to grab a partner and talk to them about blank. It's just such an easy reflex. But I see so many facilitators who try to wrangle a group as a large mass of people, and I just don't think it works. You have to be—it takes a lot of strength. This is a total side note, but I love telling this story. Have you seen The Princess Bride movie? Douglas: Mm-hmm. Daniel: Yeah. There's the scene where Fezzik and the Man in Black are fighting as Vizzini is escaping with Buttercup. And they've just climbed up the wall, the Cliffs of Insanity, and they're about to face off. And spoiler alert—Fezzik loses. And he realizes halfway through the fight why he's having such a hard time. He's like, “I haven't done one-to-one combat in so long. I'm used to fighting groups of people. You have to use different techniques.” And I think of impromptu networking as a really, really great group-fighting technique, because it doesn't matter if you've got two people or ten people or a hundred people, you say, “Okay, everybody grab a partner and have a quick conversation about blank.” And then the room is filled with energy that you did not have to create. People are connecting to other people, they're learning from each other, and then it's up to you to do the next thing, which is take that energy and funnel it, direct it, focus it towards the next activity, get people to do something with that inspiration and that information and that connection that they've gotten from other people at the moment. Douglas: Yeah. And we often talk about modeling behavior. And I think impromptu networking is a great way to model the participation that we expect. So we get them at ease with participating and gaining that human connection that they so need. And especially in the virtual world, it's really critical to start setting some of those expectations, because people aren't used to doing it when they're tuning in the virtual webinars and stuff. Daniel: Oh, my god, I know. I did that with a workshop, super-duper early in the meeting. And one of the reasons why I like to do it early is this idea of antifragile openings. If somebody shows up five or ten or fifteen minutes late, they can still float in, weave in to the second or third pairing. And this woman was like, “I knew you would do breakout rooms. I didn't think it would happen so soon.” I'm like, “Yeah, if you show up 20 minutes late to this workshop, you're going to miss something, but you're not going to miss everything. You're still going to be able to get some…” She was able to come into the third pairing in impromptu networking. Douglas: For sure. And impromptu networking only works if you have a good invitation, and your prompt has to be tight. This means that you have to have a good question. So Daniel, what are your favorite questions? Daniel: Oh, man. That's my favorite question. That’s definitely my favorite question. I actually asked that of somebody on a recent podcast episode that I was hosting, on my Conversation Factory podcast. I interviewed Cameron Yarbrough, who has a scaled coaching platform called Torch.io. And his favorite question to ask people is, what are your blind spots? And boy, oh boy, that's a really—I mean, technically an impossible question to answer yourself, but it's a really, really interesting one. He described it as a cone, like a Zen question that is unanswerable but interesting. And so good questions can be like that. I think the other easy, easy question is, tell me a story about blank. Just tell me a story when you last blank, or tell me a story about how you have blanked. Or just go straight to story because stories evoke emotions and empathy. So don't just say, “Tell me a story of when you were at your best.” It's a hard question to answer still, but it's a really interesting one, and it evokes interesting reactions for people. And that's why I think focusing on positivity over negativity is always hard. Douglas: Absolutely. That was the thing I was going to bring up next, actually, was the fact that I'm a huge fan of, if your questions can be appreciative or express gratitude, that can be really amazing. And if you can make people become introspective. So think about a time when you maybe received—what's the best compliment you've ever received? So lovely. Daniel: Yeah. And just to double stitch on that, by the way, not everybody knows what appreciative inquiry is. And it's, when you look at it, if you come from design thinking or the sprint world, you look at appreciative inquiry, and you're like, it can be weird, but you're like, wait, how is this different than design thinking? And the difference is is that you only focus on the positive. And there's this idea that you can, in fact, heal a system and a person by looking at only the positives. And in my book, I actually, I found a story. I couldn't find the truth of it. I couldn't find a direct quote, but people have talked about it, this idea that—I forget the name of the Dallas Cowboys coach—but at one point during a slump, he was like, we are only going to show you your best plays. You know, they tape the plays, and they go back, and they review things. They’re like, look, we are going to review and analyze your best plays only. And it kind of flips things on its head because a lot of designers and a lot of innovators think like, oh, we're problem solving. And so if I'm problem-solving, I have to look at what's broken, and then I have to fix it. But with appreciative inquiry, there's this radical idea that I can find what's working and ask how I can magnify it and expand it. Douglas: Yeah. there's an amazing book called Super Human, and it goes into a lot of super athletes that are doing just amazing things, like free scaling mountains, and the winged airmen—the Red Bull team that just jumps off of buildings and does insane things. Daniel: Base jumpers. Douglas: Exactly. And one of the things that they discovered—and this is a phenomenon in this world—which is there is something that humans have not been able to do for decades. And the first time one human does it, like 10, 15 other humans would do it a day later, because they've shown that it's possible. It just opens up the world of, well, now I can just go to do that thing that I know—I've seen them do it. Now I can do it. Daniel: Yeah. Wow. I love that. That's really, really awesome. Douglas: And so this is similar to your mantra, Daniel: if you don't write it down, it didn't happen. So we need to be able to see it to prove it, and then we can we can double stitch on it. And we have a mantra that's similar: always capture room intelligence. So why is this so important? Daniel: Well, I, first, have to honor my friend Miles Begin, who gave me that mantra years ago, and that was when I first started teaching design thinking to non-designers. That's the whole point is if it's not on a sticky note and it's not on the wall, we can't talk about it. And having that mantra’s really helpful, especially if you have over-talkers in the room, and it's also really helpful if you have “under-talkers” in the room. If somebody’s really, really overexplaining an idea, you can say, “Hey, can you fit that on one sticky note and get it up on the wall? That is truly, truly awesome. That'll be great.” But we used to tell a story about—have you ever watched Mad Men? Douglas: Of course. Daniel: Yeah. So there's an amazing Mad Men episode where—I forget the team. It's, like, Peggy and a couple of the other people stay up all night to bang out some ideas for something. They're drinking, and they're smoking. And they finally have this amazing insight, and they're like, “Wow, that is such a great idea!” And then they go to sleep because they're satisfied. Spoiler alert—they didn't write their idea down. And so the next day, when Don Draper comes in, and Don’s like, “Okay, what’d you jerks come up with?” And they're like, “Oh, my god, we've got this great idea,” and they're looking around their desks, and they're like,  Wait a minute. What was it?” And their brains are just this empty vacuum of space. And they're like, “Oh, my god, we didn't write it down.” And they're just crestfallen. And Don's like, “I understand. That happens sometimes.” It’s one of the few moments when Don decides to be really, really human. Like, he gets it. You didn't write down the idea, and it disappeared. And so I found an old PowerPoint of mine from, like, one of the first design-thinking workshops I ever taught. And there is a scene—we found a screenshot of Don Draper and some other people, just to teach people this idea of, if you don't write down your ideas, they will disappear into the air. And this is long before I knew that conversations had interfaces and that if you use a durable interface for your conversations, not surprisingly, you can have a more-sustained conversation about it. That’s why when you get it on the wall, we can talk about it. If it's not on the wall, I'm just interpreting what I heard, and it can disappear in the air. So one of the great things about design-thinking workshops is that we create this paper trail of insights and agreements when we go from phase to phase. And if you don't do that, we're having a much floofier conversation. So it's really, really important to get things down. And if we're talking about virtual, it's actually really problematic. I mean, I love MURAL, but MURAL sticky notes are not the same thing as real sticky notes, because on a real sticky note, there's a limit to how much information I can put on the sticky note. With MURAL, you can literally write the great American essay on one sticky note and just shrink it down to infinitely small size. So, you're not as limited. We always used to tell people, oh, use Sharpie on a sticky note. That's because a Sharpie and a sticky note create one idea. But it's way too easy in virtual visual capture to put too much information into one sticky note. Douglas: You know, Daniel, that's a big debate: how much limitations did the software put on us to mimic the real world? I think that's a fascinating conversation. Daniel: I would love to be able to switch on real-sticky-note mode. Douglas: Yeah, that’d be fantastic. And I find as a facilitator, where you talked about virtual being more difficult, and this is just one example. There's a long, long list of why we have to lean in more, and it's difficult to be a lazy facilitator, virtually, whether it's we're looking to see how long the sticky notes are or we're making sure that people are connected and having to do troubleshooting and provide technical support. One of the things we spoke about, this notion of helping teams get unstuck and making sure that they continue the momentum as they leave the workshop and they go start to build their vision. And you talked about that being the magic question, just having to look around and just check and see if everything's fixed. This is something that I've talked to Erick Skogsberg quite a bit about, this notion of, from learning the science, we have to consider assessment points. What is our learning objective and making sure we've built in points of assessment so we can understand if we've gotten there. And even if you're not training people, it's important that you build this into workshops because you're taking people on a journey and you want to make sure that they're hitting the milestones, right? What do we do virtually? You and I have talked about this quite a bit, but what do the listeners need to know about virtual kind of reading the room? Daniel: Well, you have to find other feedback loops. And I think that's where—like, when we've set up MURALS for multiple tables, when you put them on separate MURALS, which I know is something you've recommended in the past, especially if you're doing a larger meeting, putting them on separate MURALS reduces the load, but it makes it harder as a facilitator to monitor multiple tables. So it's nice to have three or—if you only have 15 or 20 or 30 people to just make areas for each of the breakout rooms to work, because then you can just see everything that's happening, because while MURAL does have those preview images, as we've argued over before, the preview images don't update often enough for you to get that feedback loop, but it can be really, really simple. I've seen you do this, where you ask everybody to rename themselves in Zoom. And that's pretty meta because you're asking them to give you some information about themselves, but you're also testing whether or not they're engaged and whether or not they are interested. And if you don't see people—if you see people not doing that, then, we don't have anyplace to go because it's like, oh, they don't know how to use the tool, Zoom, and they aren't interested enough to tell you something about themselves in this area. And so it's just finding simpler, smaller feedback loops to make sure that you're moving forward with people with you, if that makes sense. Douglas: Oh, absolutely. And we've been using two facilitators in most of our workshops, with someone dedicated to looking for those signals. So they're kind of keeping a lookout for those things. So, absolutely. And also, just to keep this a bit evergreen, I'm now on the beta for the new rendering engine, so do not have to make multiple MURALS for even larger gatherings now on MURAL, so that's pretty exciting. And after that launches, you won’t have to be in the beta program, have access to that. So I'm sure listeners in the future will be happy to have that. Daniel: I’m wondering why I’m not on that beta program. Douglas: I think you should talk to some friends, Daniel. So with that, I’m super-curious about Rock, Paper, Scissors online. How does this work? Daniel: Well, so here's the thing. Like I say, I, because I think you're referring to a LinkedIn post that I made, where I didn't even think it was possible. I just sort of assumed. And this goes to your sporting-events thing, right? where when somebody does it, then you're like, oh, that's how to do it. And it partially goes against my lazy facilitation principle. But during some of the facilitation masterclass cohorts that I run, we make spaces for people to try out new warmups and icebreakers that they've never done before. And this one woman, Janine Underhill, said, I'd like to try to do a Rock, Paper, Scissors tournament.” And I'm like, “Good luck, sister. I'm going to enjoy this.” And she did it. She did it. It can be done. I think what's interesting about it is that simultaneity in remote facilitation is impossible because of the speed-of-light limit. It’s basically an Einstein-Bose condensate kind of a problem. If you and I tried to snap at the same time, we can’t. Even if we said, “One, two, three, snap,” we wouldn’t snap at the same time, because you wouldn’t hear me snapping at the same time. There’s a delay because we’re in between this piece of software. The software institutes a delay, and sound travels more slowly than light. And so we’re never going to have simultaneity. In person, it is very hard to notice that lack of simultaneity, right? When I say, “Rock, paper, scissors, shoot,” it seems simultanous because we're within, like, two feet of each other. But when we are 100,000 miles from each other, and we are on Zoom, we notice it. And what happens is people start slowing down, because we go one, two, three, shoot, as we wait for the other person to catch up with us. And then somebody always throws before the other person, and so it's like—but we don't have a response action time to metabolize that information. And so it's actually a really interesting learning opportunity to talk about how challenging communication can be remotely. But it is totally possible to do it, and it is fun to do it, and it is ridiculous to do it. Everyone should try it. Douglas: That’s amazing. So structurally, when you do a Rock, Paper, Scissors battle, you're just having people start off in groups. Daniel: Yes. Douglas: And then the winners are laddering up to—it’s like a basketball tournament kind of… How do you do all these groups? Are you doing breakout groups, and then combine them together? Daniel: Yes, I will, in the interest of community, I will tell you all of my secrets. So Janine worked too hard at it, I think. She did all the initial pairings. We only had a group of 15, and she did all the initial pairings, and she did the secondary pairings as well, and she did the tertiary pairings. She called out all the pairings, kept track of it all. And that was to her credit. Douglas: She was recording the brackets. Daniel: She was the bracket-eur. My variation is to have people turn off their video if they lose. That's the easiest thing to do is just have people turn off their video if they lose, because then, at least, the bracketing is easier. Douglas: Yeah. Or someone could raise their hand if they're looking for… Daniel: Yes. Totally. They're signaling. And so here's the thing. We could try to do it a perfect way, or we could let the group solve it and see if we can get them to understand everything there is to understand about group communication, because signaling, oh, how do we signal stuff? Okay. How do we start—how do we keep signaling for the rest of our meetings? Okay, cool. And I've seen groups really develop some great habits around, okay, put your hand over your head if you haven't blanked. And so I don't think the bracketing thing—video makes it easier. Bracketing, the problem is, is that I think bracketing can't be done automatically. It's much harder to say, okay, I'm going to claim blank person as my hand-off person. So I haven't solved it. But I also haven't tried to do it with 100 hundred people. I've only done it with 20. And then it works fine. And it's fun. Douglas: Absolutely. Daniel: It's as fun and as ridiculous, if not more so, than doing it virtually. Douglas: Speaking of distributed facilitation in general, you've mentioned to me that it's weirder and squishier. So I guess some final comments for the listeners around challenges, just why is it weirder and squishier? And then, what are you hopeful for? What are you optimistic about? Daniel: I’ve written about this before. I can send you a link to the article on LinkedIn that I wrote. It's called “This Digital Place,” and we have a sense of place that comes for free by being four-dimensional beings. We exist in space and time, and we've had a long time, our entire lives, to get used to it. And we've had 40,000 years as modern humans to evolve for it. We've evolved in it. This is our—you know, [knocks on wood] this physical space is my native place. And so when we go into this digital place, it feels weird because it is literally not natural for us. But those Post-it notes behind you on the wall are not natural for us either. We designed those for ourselves as a tool, and I cannot imagine having an in-person meeting without those tools anymore, in the short decade that I've had those tools. I remember we didn't always have big Post-it sticky pads. We didn't always have whiteboards. We've grown really used to this environment. In the last 10, 20, 30 years, we've created this built environment around our meetings and our engagements, and we require them now. But I assure you, they are not natural. They feel natural to us because we’ve become acculturated to it and to them. And we do not have a culture for this distributed place. We don't have rituals for this distributed place. We are learning them slowly but surely. The example I love to give is, whatever it was, like, maybe five years ago, that guy from the BBC whose kids tromped in in the middle of his presentation—a little girl in yellow, running in like she owned the place. It was hilarious. And the guy was super embarrassed. The mother of the kids was extra-special embarrassed. And I was listening to NPR yesterday, where this woman was welcoming this man on to share a report about something. And he's like, I'm really glad to be here. Blah, blah, blah. And then his dog barks in the background. And the interviewer was like, “And it sounds like your dog’s excited to be with us today as well, too. What’s his name?” And he’s like, “It’s Buster.” And she’s like, well, hello to Buster. So, blah, blah, blah, let’s talk about blah, blah, blah. And it was seamless. It was smooth. She was like, whatever. We're just here, and there's a dog. Nobody cares anymore. That's something to be optimistic about, that we can adapt to this place, that we can learn new tools, that we can learn new rituals and new patterns. The fact of the matter is this is not natural, but there's very, very little that's natural about our lives. And we make our lives. We design the spaces and places where we have the conversations that we want to have. And so I'm pretty optimistic about the fact that our old patterns don't work as well here and that we have to develop new patterns, and that it is possible that maybe we will learn to retain some of those patterns when we get back to meeting in person in 19 months, my current estimate. Douglas: Well, Daniel, I look forward to continuing this journey with you. I agree, there's lots to learn and there's lots to explore. And we won't know for quite some time where these new norms and these new customs emerge, but I'm already seeing some things happen, and I think you and I are doing our best to be on the forefront of that. And so I just want to say thanks for being there with me, and it's been fun learning with you. Daniel: Likewise, man. I mean, a lot of facilitators say, “I can't feel the room, and it's not as good.” And honestly, I was one of those facilitators. Jim Kalbach from MURAL will literally quote back to you, like, the umpteen times over the last three years that I said to him, like, “I'm good, dude. I'm a great in-person facilitator. I'd much rather not compete on a global scale with anybody who has access to MURAL for facilitation gigs.” And we're in a situation where that's no longer possible in person is a fundamental assumption of what I used to do. That is impossible anymore. And I think if we can't adapt, if I can't adapt, if the rest of us can't adapt, we are royally screwed. We have to learn how to do this. And that's one of the reasons why we did the large virtual meetings things together. I thought it was important to push my own limits and say, is it possible to do the kind of big, crazy workshops that we did in person? If they had value—and we thought they did, and I think they still do—then, can we do them here, rather than, I don’t know, wait 18 months before having a bunch of people come together to make an important decision? I mean, honestly, Janet and I are having a long, ongoing discussion about this. We had to cancel our wedding in June. And what to do about getting married, and do we do a Zoom wedding? Will that be fun? Will that be interesting? Will it feel like a real wedding? Or should we wait an indefinite amount of time to bring everyone together to celebrate the fact that we have something good going here? I don't think that waiting forever is a really good business plan for anything, not for a marriage and certainly not for third-quarter top-to-top strategic meeting. I see you're nodding. You’re like, yeah, they should not be putting off those meetings. And I think people are putting them off, or they're doing them really, really poorly. Douglas: Yeah. I think there are two outcomes we've seen the more we explore this with companies. And some companies have the mindset, they have it figured out because they know how to run a Zoom meeting, or they know how to do webinars. Daniel: Right. One to Many—done. Douglas: Yeah. Like, I'm good. So they're just in the camp of, don't realize all the potential they're missing. And then you've got another camp that says we’ll just wait until we can do it in person because they've got caught flat-footed and they know that there's so much missing, but they don't know what to do. And so that's definitely the inspiration for putting together more virtual offerings. And the large virtual-meetings workshop is, I think, really hits the nail on the head as far as a real challenge around, what do we do with large groups? That sounds troubling. But the fascinating thing to me, Daniel, is that there's so much more that people learn. These aha moments can apply to much smaller meetings, but it's the large groups that people are the most confused by, and so that's where we approach the teaching opportunity. Daniel: Yeah. And large can just mean 15 or 20. It’s not hard to break the two-pizza rule, right? It is really easy to break the two-virtual-pizza rule quickly, and most of us don't have Fezzik-level skills when it comes to wrestling with large groups. And we need them. Everybody needs them, I think, especially if you work in a large corporation. But also, I went to a birthday party on Friday for someone I went to junior high school with. And this guy’s sister, who I was best friends with in junior high, she does stand-up comedy. And we did a call on Wednesday for the party, and she’s like, “What should I'd be looking out for, Daniel?” And I was like, “Well, look, it's a lot of people. You need to have an M.C.” And she's like, “Oh, I can do that,” because she's M.C.’d open comedy nights. And it’s like, “You need to have somebody to keep the energy moving and to orchestrate things and to keep the conversation moving.” It's not trivial. I think maybe this is where comics will find work in this new economy. How the Emmys and the Oscars need Billy Crystal and Kevin Hart, maybe these large virtual meetings just need comics, which is an insight you had for the first Control the Room,right? Just bring in some comedy to keep it going. Douglas: It might work a little better in the virtual setting, maybe. We’ll see. Daniel: Yeah. Are they available for me and my team? Douglas: Yeah. Bring them in, for sure. Yeah. There’s also some companies that have sprung up that allow you to rent— Daniel: Llamas? Yes, I know. Douglas: Llamas and perezosos and all sorts of stuff. Daniel: I don’t even know what those are, but… Douglas: Oh, it’s a sloth. Daniel: Oh, okay. Douglas: Everyone's got to have a sloth at their workshop. Daniel: Yeah, but see, that’s just like shiny distraction. Douglas: I agree. And Daniel, you know, I think this is the exact reason why so many people dislike icebreakers and eye openers and energizers, because they just throw them in, with no reason whatsoever, and without a debrief—in fact, I've started to say, if you can't ask, “Why did we just do that,” and have that erupt into a pithy conversation, ask yourself, “Why did we just do that?” Daniel: Whoa, yeah. I agree with you. Obviously, I agree with you. Douglas: So, Daniel, what do we need to leave listeners with? What should they know? And how could they find you, contact info, all that good stuff? Daniel: Well, I'm on the Internet, easy to find, fairly SEO’d. If you Google “Daniel Stillman,” you might find me. If you Google “The Conversation Factory,” you'll definitely find me. I have a podcast. I have a book coming out, by the way, Douglas. It will be coming out shortly, God willing. It's called Good Talk: How to Design Conversations that Matter. They're advertising it as a step-by-step handbook. It's not a step-by-step guide, because I don't think there's a single recipe that could possibly account for all situations. But it is a map to the territory and can help people learn how to form and shape and guide all the conversations in their lives better, from big-group conversations to the conversations that they have with themselves every day. We have a shocking number of conversations with ourselves, and those need to be designed just as much as quarterly action-plan gatherings and off-sites. And so if you go https://theconversationfactory.com/goodtalk, you can find it. You can download some chapters. It’s a thing. You don’t have to pay me anything. You don’t have to buy the book. The first two chapters, there’s a lot there—although somebody has told me that I ended the first two chapters at the right spot, that made them want to read the third chapter. And to that, I have to thank Kellie McGann, who helped me with the editing of the book. Douglas: It is a fantastic book. I've read it several times— Daniel: What?! Crazy. Douglas: —and I think it's really critical for people that are wanting to elevate their meetings and just their interactions at work and at home. It is a fantastic way to step back and look at your dialog in an abstract way so that you can put terms to it. So just like physics is the science of being able to take the phenomenon in the world, how the air moves past you and how your car functions, and you can put equations to it so you can understand it. You can talk about it in an abstract way so that you can reason about it. Daniel has done that for conversations. And if you think about how many conversations we have and all the moments throughout life where conversations are important, you can imagine how relevant this book becomes. And I can't highly recommend it enough. Daniel: It's really, really—it's wonderful to hear you say that. I appreciate you saying it. Writing a book, as you know, is a terrible, terrible thing. I’d never recommend it to anybody. The fact that it's out there and everyone can read it is terrifying to me. You can see what goes on in my head now, and the fact that I had a love of physics, and still do, and a love of design, it's not surprising, hearing you talk about it, I'm like, “All right. Of course. That's why I wrote the book the way that I did.” Douglas: Excellent. Well, Daniel, it's been a pleasure having you here today, and I can't wait to chat with you again. Daniel: Thanks, Douglas. It's always a pleasure. Thanks, man. Outro: Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control the Room. Don't forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. If you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together, voltagecontrol.com.

“Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.” ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:12-15‬ ‭ESV‬‬ https://www.bible.com/bible/59/2ti.3.12-15.esv “Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.” ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8‬ ‭ESV‬‬ https://www.bible.com/bible/59/1pe.5.8.esv ““I decree that everyone throughout my kingdom should tremble with fear before the God of Daniel. For he is the living God, and he will endure forever. His kingdom will never be destroyed, and his rule will never end. He rescues and saves his people; he performs miraculous signs and wonders in the heavens and on earth. He has rescued Daniel from the power of the lions.” So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.” ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭6:26-28‬ ‭NLT‬‬ https://www.bible.com/bible/116/dan.6.26-28.nlt

Serving Not Selling In today's episode Andrea T. Edwards talks about Serving Not Selling During Coronavirus. Andrea T Edwards, CSP, (AKA The Digital Conversationalist), challenges organisations to think differently about integrity in the digital age. To think differently about the positive potential of social media. And she challenges business leaders to understand that, the tool of business transformation today, is through the powerful voices of employees as social leaders. Because it is employees who are the champions and true influencers for businesses in the digital age. Please SUBSCRIBE ►http://bit.ly/JTme-ytsub ♥️ Your Support Appreciated! If you enjoyed the show, please rate it on YouTube, iTunes or Stitcher and write a brief review. That would really help get the word out and raise the visibility of the Creative Life show. SUBSCRIBE TO THE SHOW Apple: http://bit.ly/TSL-apple Libsyn: http://bit.ly/TSL-libsyn Spotify: http://bit.ly/TSL-spotify Android: http://bit.ly/TSL-android Stitcher: http://bit.ly/TSL-stitcher CTA link: https://speakersu.com/the-speakers-life/ FOLLOW ME: Website: https://speakersu.com LinkedIn: http://bit.ly/JTme-linkedin Instagram: http://bit.ly/JTme-ig Twitter: http://bit.ly/JTme-twitter Facebook Group: http://bit.ly/IS-fbgroup Read full transcript at https://speakersu.com/sl060-serving-not-selling-during-coronavirus-andrea-t-edwards/ James Taylor Hey, there's James Taylor and I'm delighted today to have on the show Andrea Edwards, Andrea T. Edwards CSP, aka the digital conversationalist challenges organizations to think differently about integrity in the digital age, to think differently about the positive potential of social media. And she challenges business leaders to understand that the tool of business transformation today is through the powerful voices of employees as social leaders, because its employees who are the champions and true influences for businesses in the digital age. It's my great pleasure to have Andrea with us today. So welcome, Andrea. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. So share with us Oh, what's happening in your world at the moment? Andrea Edwards Well, we've been on lockdown now I call it six legs plus two because I had a self quarantine came back from Melbourne to Thailand. And because I went to Singapore for an hour and a half, I had to self quarantine at home. So we've been in we've been in quite a quite a long time and I think the first couple of rates for pretty rough, just from just all settling down getting the kids set or getting them working for school. But you know where we are. I mean, we couldn't be in a better place. We've got a big pool. We're swimming as a family everyday doing lap. So it's a crazy time. But I think we're in one of the best parts of the world to be going through such a crazy time. James Taylor Now for people that don't know your your kind of background, the kind of work you do today. I mean, you work with some pretty phenomenal clients, but you work with you, you speak events, but actually, you kind of consult and you train. So just give a little bit of background about the kind of interactions that you're usually having and the kind of clients that you would work with. Andrea Edwards Yeah, so I've been in the communication space for more than 20 years, and I've lived and worked all over the world. So originally, I started out pure purely in public relations from the defense, aerospace industry. Then I moved into the technology industry when it really took off. I moved to London in the mid 90s work for Microsoft. And then I went The content marketing revolution sort of started to quietly happen. I realized I was actually already in content marketing. It just wasn't caught that then. And so I was one of the early sort of evangelists for content marketing in Asia. And I was attending a lot of industry events. And I was listening to a lot of people speak about content marketing, and I was constantly frustrated by what I was hearing. And that was the moment when I said, Well, if I don't like what I'm hearing, get up on stage and share my own point of view, right. So I, I'm not in the speaking game, because I have a desire to speak. In fact, I'd rather do anything but speak. But I'm here because I've got a message and a message that I really believe in. And so I was working with Microsoft at the beginning of the last decade. And I was looking at the content marketing that was going on in the company at the time, and it's a beautiful work being done. But it wasn't succeeding, the employees weren't helping the content to succeed. And then I'm going to work for a Content Agency. And now we're creating this amazing content. And again, the content wasn't succeeding. So I sort of, you know, sort of put it all together. And I came up with this philosophy, which I call social leadership. And it's about empowering employees to go out there, and their voices on social media channels, and become the best advocates that a company can have. Because if you work for any company, especially the big companies, the people will love these companies, but you've got to empower the people to go out there and speak. And it's not about the business, it's got to be from a point of view that they care about, and it's got to be a point of view of passion. And then I can talk about the company as well. So I just bought I brought all these different pieces together and, and came up with the digital compensation lens concept. Because I love social media. I loved it from the beginning. I've lived all over the world. I stay connected to all my friends, I've been blogging for more than a decade. I share a personal blog as well as a professional blog and I just, for me, the whole social media. Revelation while I fully recognize all the negative aspects of it, the positive aspects of it are so amazing. And I work really hard with the big companies that I work for to get them to understand what those positive benefits are and to get their employees really engaged and really powerful on social media. And you know, I've got it on that's published another case study, but I've got this amazing proof where from a financial perspective, willing customers pipeline building, it's incredible what employees can do, but as well as other other benefits that I care about, like they believe in themselves, they they're proud of themselves, they create their careers start shooting in different directions up higher. So yeah, it's been a, it's been an interesting journey, but at the center of it all, is a real passion for communication and passion for connection. I suppose they're my two, the two bits that bring it all together. James Taylor And one of your clients is IBM. And you did obviously your speakers you remember everyone you can accommodate speakers, you Maybe you shared with me a piece of work that you've done with one of your clients, IBM, and it was phenomenal. I've shared it with so many different people in different organizations over time. I mentioned your name to so many of them, because I thought it really it was it was it was evidence based for start, which is nice. It's always fun. But it actually kind of showed, you know, when I talk to a lot of C suite executives or even like all direct or middle management level, and some of them are really worried, they kind of know that they go online and they might be doing stuff in a personal capacity, which they kind of hide away somewhere, but they're worried about causing any brand risk, or saying anything that's wrong as well. So could you like for those that haven't and we'll obviously put a link is good your site and check that work out? What were some of the key findings that you found about how to share an authentic voice about building that doesn't feel like it's corporate it but is genuinely adding value to people's lives? Andrea Edwards Yeah, so um, you know, when I say So it's been, it's been nearly four years that I've been working with IBM, and I'm about to launch another case study, which shows even even more progress. And my message has always been quite different. Right? I see a lot of people on social media and I see a lot of advice on social media. And it's a broadcast, you know, look at me, look at me, it's very egotistical, right. And when I started sitting down with the senior executives, the leadership teams, not just with IBM, but other big companies, they were telling me how turned off they are by that sort of approach. And, and I completely understood where they're coming from, right. So I always talk to them about, you've got to find your voice. You know, like, if you're, if you're an executive in a business, you know, what is appropriate, what's not appropriate. And, you know, there's very specific things that are especially a leader can and cannot do, right. I'll always remember when I worked with one of the heads of communication for ga Like if I put an article out where I talk about trains and then a week later, GE buys a train business, that that could be interpreted as insider trading. Right. So there's very specific challenges that simulators have to face, right. So I talked to them about what they can talk about. So some of the some of the executives I've worked with, and one of them his biggest passion is work life balance. He's a senior executive, his biggest priorities getting home for the weekend to spend time with his kids. I took it took him two years to be convinced to publish a personal blog talking about his children and that as a priority, and before that, it was always technology. Right? And I have never seen a blog get more engagement and more gratitude, because people just really appreciated hearing a leader talking from such a human perspective, right, everyone, everyone talks about authentic leadership. But not many, not many people are good at it, but at the same time A lot of the ladies are actually quite scared to do it because they don't know how it's going to be seen. So I talked a lot about that, you know, like being authentic, find your voice, what's your focus what's what's your passion, some leaders want to talk to their employees through social media channels. Some leaders want to talk to then want to influence the next generation someone to talk to the country issues if they're a leader of that country for the business that they work for. So it's about really getting them focused on what they want to talk about. And then they share that they shared content aligned to that focus their own the companies and other content. So a great hate HBr article, Harvard Business Review article on leadership that really sort of inspires, and so it's about getting them focused. It's not about talking about the company. Anyone here is a valuable employee. They don't want to be a megaphone for business. They want to they want to go out there and stand there in their own right. So what I do is I help them work out what that message should be. For them based on who they are, and what their priorities are. So it's a different sort of, it's a different spin. The other thing that I insist on is that they have to do it themselves. They can get help. But I, I advise anyone who wants to succeed as a social leader, you've got to do it yourself. You can't outsource your voice. It's got to be you. It's got to be you're engaging. It's got to be you're expressing yourself. Because if you outsource that you will never understand the true potential of social media. It's the engagement of the on social media that really brings its power to the fore. James Taylor What might you say like reflecting your your personality on social media, something I often wonder about is my mic and humor home is quite dark, you know? And it's pretty, I mean, obviously, there's a there's a Britishness and it's quite dark and it can be maybe slightly cynical at times as well, where generally when when I'm I'm doing most of my my social media and most of really kind of definitely who I am More Republic context, I can think of myself trying to be optimistic. So I don't really want to see something that's snarky and negative, even though some of that humor. I really, personally I quite it makes me chocolate makes me laugh. What I think what I want to be thinking about in term, whether you're a speaker, or executive, in terms of thinking about how to use humor, how to kind of reflect your your own humor or not, when you're on your social media. Andrea Edwards Well, I definitely think you've got to let your personality come through. And you know, like, I'm Australian, right? We, I think, you know, being Australians also we get away with all sorts of stuff. It's true, right? But, you know, the way I participate professionally, is, is different to the way I participate. Personally, my humor, like my hip, my personality is still the same. And I, as the years have gone on, I've definitely put more of my humor into into my professional presence. But you know, you should we've got to be very You're aware of cultural differences. I, I I operate all over the world I I've lived all over the world. I think all of the world I think it's a, the people that I've worked with in India versus the Philippines versus Australia, New Zealand, London, you know, like Chima doesn't always translate, right? So what might be hilarious in America might be incredibly offensive in Singapore. So I think there's a place for humor definitely on social media. And I think if you're a funny person, and that humor translates, if you've got you've got to have high cultural intelligence, right? And humor translates you should definitely embrace it The world needs, it needs its entertainers. But if you have a sense of humor that could be divisive. It's you know, just keep it to your personal Facebook page. You don't have to be, you know, it's about being appropriate for the audience where you are right and I'm not the same everywhere. No, my Instagram is very different to my LinkedIn presence, which is different to my Facebook. activity in my Twitter activity. So we've all got to be thinking about who the audience is. And it's very easy to be misconstrued on social media, right? So from a professional perspective, wherever you are, professionally, you know, it's not about changing who you are, it's just not you just don't need to, you don't need to put everything on the table. James Taylor And what about in terms of kind of modes, I guess? Some people love watching short videos, you know, can a short kind of almost like Tick Tock style videos, Instagram videos, IGTV of people watching love can spend a lot of time on YouTube, other people spending more long form articles, who like, you know, quote, cars, or all these different kind of ways that we take in information and we like to be on social media? How does that really relate to let's say if you're, whether you're a speaker or an executive now thinking, Okay, this is a plethora of different platforms and a plethora of different ways that you can share your thoughts and your ideas. What's that kind of what should we be thinking about in terms of making sense of all this? Andrea Edwards Well, I think the first thing is the rules have changed and the change very quickly, the idea that you've only got a couple, you know, you've got a short attention span, I think that's changed. People are looking for knowledge on the current situation, and they're going to go to the sources that provide that knowledge. I've always found that senior executives read and they read long form content. Not all of them. Of course, if you're if you're a senior executive in the consumer business, then you might it might be appropriate for you to participate on a platform like tik tok or Snapchat, I can't stand them. My kids are on them. I try. I try. But I it's just doesn't work for me, right? So you've got to be appropriate to the audience on the platform, and you've got to be appropriate to the customer. So it's two things right? And they're very different behaviors, but it's just about making that real conscious connection between where am I and who am I trying to talk to everything. Everything is about your audience. Who is your audience? What do you want to make them feel? What do you want to make them think? You know, my motto is always to make people laugh, or cry. And I that that covers all of my social media platforms, but I'm very different on all my different platforms. You know, you know, like, I've got a professional profile, which is LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter. And, and, and I'm consistent across those three, but then I've got another Facebook platform and another Twitter handle and you know, so it's multiple, multiple platforms with different things. And some people get overwhelmed by the amount of platforms that are out there. The best place to start is to start from where you're comfortable. So if Tick Tock appeals to you then going can become superstar on Tick Tock. If LinkedIn appeals to you be a superstar there. So you've got to choose your platform based on where your customer is but also where you feel comfortable, because if you're not comfortable, it's never going to come across. Well, anyway. James Taylor I thought speaker that's perhaps you know, think okay. I really want to Wondering on social media I really want to share, be sharing a lot more and taking partners can have conversations online. do you advise them to just kind of start with one and go really deep for a while with that? Or should they maybe think about three and then kind of look kind of to develop them and work along with them alongside as time goes on? What would you suggest? Andrea Edwards If they're just starting out now on social media? I think they've already missed an opportunity. Up until a couple of months ago, you know, for years now, I've been saying to people, speakers, as well as professionals, get on social media, build your voice it's going to get, it's getting busier and busier and busier. Okay. A couple of months ago, everyone got on social media, because that is how everyone in the world is communicating today. So the biggest challenge anyone's gonna face on social media is being heard. Because everyone's talking, that's where we're talking now. Right. So that's the biggest challenge. The second thing is, it's not where you are. It's about being intentional about this. message that you want to get across and the audience that you want to reach and set your intention, who do you want to reach? So if your target is consumers, where are they, you know, like, I can't tell you which platform to be on, you know where your customers are, or you should. And if you don't ask your customers, you know, where do they engage. But you can only work out the platforms by doing it yourself. Like, I couldn't explain to someone how to use Instagram if I hadn't been on Instagram for a number of years and really liked it. You know, but as a professional, if you are a professional, you should definitely be on LinkedIn as a priority. That I mean, to me, that is always the number one platform for speakers and for business executives. Everyone has to be on LinkedIn and build a voice there are like I said, it's gotten very, very noisy very, very quickly. James Taylor And essentially, I find now when I you know, I've been doing social media for a long time. There's certain platforms I find I naturally gravitate more to than others and I enjoy spending time there. My wife has an almost a completely different set of social media that she spent space over. So I'm always like, Why Why is she loves Twitter and then I'm kind of more of a kind of I love YouTube and Instagram. But and for years I remember kind of doing it and doing it to a certain extent of this is interesting. This is fun. This isn't this is another way to share ideas and peep conversations, but not really thinking so much of an ROI, or return on that time and just going like oh, this is this is interesting. But then I've been thinking more recently and I think about some of the things I've just bought like today just I just purchased and it just arrived today, a coffee grinder, a burnt coffee grinder and so I went to you know, finally I've got a really nice old style Garcia coffee machine. I've had about 10 years but it's great. It's built like a tank and I thought I really need to probably upgrade my my grade I have like a nicer grinder to make nicer coffee. Now, when I started go online to learn about which one I should be getting my default was to go to YouTube. And for I basically lost an entire evening, getting totally geeky watching these people who are super passionate about coffee and coffee grinders. And, and because some of them mentioning certain types, certain brands of coffee machines, I thought, that's the brand I'm going to buy. And so it kind of really came back to me to thought, well, that is a position of influence, whether we like it or not, whether we're just kind of going online putting stuff out because we're passionate about a topic. But after a while, you think, well, I am creating some impact, some kind of influence, whether that's someone buying some things or making a decision about where to go not on that next holiday, because I've been an environmental side of things as well. So how do you perceive How do you think of yourself in terms of influence? I know it's a term I don't particularly like influence. But a lot of people talk about influencing and being in a social media influence. What's your take on that? Andrea Edwards Oh, you know, I mean, I think the influences are getting a bit of a bit of a bad rap at the moment. You know, they're being pushed down because the people who should be the heroes of the moment the nurses, the doctors, the frontline workers are being a being held up. And I've never been a real fan of the influencer space, especially in the consumer side of things. It's just, it's not, it's not the way it's not the person I am, you know, from the Kardashians on right? But people are really caught up, they love it, they think it's great, they find it entertaining, or they find it uncomfortable and interesting. You know, and I think there's, there's something for everyone out there. But if you were going to position yourself on on YouTube right now, and that was going to be your number one channel. It is one of the top social media platforms in India. But if say let's say you were trying to target a business executive today that was a parent. They are at home teaching hungry killing their children trying to do their job. And one of the hardest things for them to do is to sit down and find time to watch videos. So I think we've all got to be very conscious of how we communicate at this time, again, based but especially based on what our customers looking like. So I get 70 people are sending my private social media channels are as busy as my public ones, right? And everyone sending me all these videos, but I can never watch any of them. Because usually, if they're sending them to me privately, they're rude. Which means I can't watch in front of my kids and I don't like putting headphones on because they hurt my ears. So it's, it's all about balance, right? I'm not a huge fan of the influencer thing. I remember somebody called me one month and I was like, Whoa, um, but, you know, I don't do what I do to be positioned as an influencer or anything else. I do what I do because I really believe in my message. And when I'm out there on my social media platforms, that's why I'm sharing I'm not so I'm not ego driven. I'm not I'm not You know, I don't want sometimes I'll walk in and people will run up to me and give me a hug and go, Oh my god, Andrew Edwards. And I'm like, Well, you know, I'm a girl from a country town in Australia, but I just, I love I love what I do. And and I really believe in the power of social media that we can change the world. And I believe in its positive possibilities with a well understanding its negatives. So I think if you want to, don't focus on being, don't be focused on being an influencer, focus on delivering real value to a community that you care about, and you want to make their lives better. And to me, that's a much more impactful thing to do. And the people who do that, who live in that space, it's not, they're not necessarily hundreds or millions, hundreds of thousands and millions of followers, but they're very loyal followers, even if they're a smaller community, and I think actually a lot more powerful. James Taylor And on that note, obviously, we'll go as we're recording this today, we're going through COVID-19 the world's gonna We're all experiencing this this together this moment in history. What What advice would you give to because there's many speakers out there who are obviously floundering, they're kind of wondering what to do or they're the calendar is completely gone has completely disappeared. And many of them are in a kind of reactionary type of mode, about just trying to Okay, I need to make up this income I need to do other things. And they're putting themselves out there in a certain type of way. So you're I know you're, you've always put your finger on the pulse about what you're seeing other speakers doing social media and things that you think are good things that you do, and also good for their brands and for the business in general. What what are you seeing what piece of advice would you be giving just now? Andrea Edwards Yeah, so I'm just recently I set up a whole bunch of group calls with members of across Asia, the professional speakers associations across Asia, because I was actually quite good. I was actually getting quite disturbed by what I was saying. And I understand why people are doing what they do. Doing but it was like overnight, everyone was pivoting, online selling, sharing successes. Look at me look at me, I've won something, webinars and now free and all that sort of good stuff. But to me, I reached out to the speakers associations in Asia and I offered to run sessions where I talked to people about their message for these time. And the first question I said to them, put your hand up if you need to earn money right now. And of course, the majority of people put their hands up, right. And I said, right, we're on the same boat. That the industry is turned upside down. I've been reading you know, because the other thing I do is I read a lot about a lot of different stuff. So I'm monitoring social media, I'm reading like everything. I cover every, every aspect of anything that I'm interested in that and I just found that the way that the speakers were behaving was really jarring with the reality of what our customers and ourselves are feeling right now. So for me personally, these first few weeks when you know, because I'm in Thailand, the very first case of cobit, outside of China was in Thailand. And we had the Chinese New Year, we'll hand direct flight straight into Paquette. So we've been living with this crisis for longer and observing, being careful being cautious, you know, we've been monitoring it for longer, right. But basically, what, I just find that the way a lot of the speakers are participating, and it really isn't a criticism because I understand I really do. It's not in alignment with how our customers are feeling. You know, our brains aren't working quite well, at the moment. People are, you know, in order to have a business article that that's very normal. It's part of the fight or flight response where, you know, you wake up some days and you feel on top of the world and you can conquer the world and then the next day you wake up and you're, you're so down because you've noticed you read a story about how the the Viruses impacting the refugees is having a miserable life across Europe. Right? So then I started asking customers, I started asking colleagues, peers, friends, how are you feeling? How you feeling? And it's probably the question I've asked the most. And, you know, it went from anywhere from How the hell do I teach my kids? How do I how do I get through this time? I'm depressed. I don't know how to do this. I'm struggling with leaders. How do I how do I help my employees work through these time? How do I be a good leader at this time? And so what, what what I what I really wanted to say to all of the speakers around the world is we have to be of service now. There is business and it will come. But I think if we behave in the wrong way, now it will hurt. It will hurt our careers in the long term. You know, anywhere between 12 months and three years, we could potentially be in this situation, right? So it's a long time. Time coming. So get your training online, get your speaking online, do your videos, but just don't be pushing, pushing, pushing, because people aren't ready for it. You know, JK Rowling came out and she she blasted the productivity experts, right just said they didn't have the right to do that. And, and I think she's right because people are going through such emotional turmoil. And we need to be sensitive to where the world community is right now. You know, you look at a country like India, the diversity of people in country, you know, from the day workers who were living under a bridge in Delhi with nothing to wait all the way through to the people living in skyscrapers and their family owned the whole building writes very different experiences. But there's, there's an anxiety there's a fear, you know, we don't know enough about the virus yet. We don't know enough about its impact. The politicians around the world aren't helping. There's not a global approach to this which is making it worse which is going to make it longer. So We need to step into a role if we want to be relevant of service, and we need to talk about the stuff that's going to help our community prosper. You know, and if we don't do that, I think we'll, I think we'll lose out in the long term. And I, I don't think if we get it wrong, I don't think we'll be on a stage. When when the world opens back up, I really don't think we're going to be very sensitive, have high emotional intelligence, and just really be no, try not to operate from a place of fear for our own self, and try and just go into a place of service for our community. If you've got a topic that's relevant right now to your community, you know, health and wellness, right? It's skyrocketing. Because people are at home, they're looking, they're going online to do yoga sessions, bloody sessions. People are baking, they're cooking, they're doing all these things, right? So if you can, if you can feed into that space and stand out in that space, go for it, you know, but is your productivity Pitch really what people need to hear right now. And if it's not, it doesn't mean it won't be again. But maybe you need to pivot for the time being, and be really in tune with your audience. We've got to be in tune with you. We always need to be in tune with your audience. Right? But on social media, we've got to be very intentional again, right? James Taylor And what I mean, you're you said, you're kind of always you're looking around, you're seeing examples what other people are doing. Are you seeing examples there of your perhaps your more kind of classic kind of motivational style expert speaker, obviously, I realized, when I'm saying the word motivation, I guess I'm thinking of a as a flavor because I thought, sometimes I feel you can still be a great speaker and you don't have to be like a motivational style of speaker. I think there's great speakers I've seen who aren't motivational, but they move me in some way or they say something in some way that that I think is really, really valuable. Have there been any of those comments? traditional kind of personal development motivational speakers out there that you feel have got that type of emotional intelligence. And they're putting out something there in some way. Whether it's to, you know, to keep people's morale up to help them kind of get through each of their days to deal with stress. What are you seeing out there? Andrea Edwards Yeah, I think, you know, some some of the people that I that I've been speaking to their positivity experts, right. And positivity is a challenging thing to talk about right now. Because not everyone's feeling very positive. Right. So how do you talk about positivity, in the context of a world full of fear, and and it isn't. positivity in its in its essence, isn't actually the absence of fear. It's about you know, it's sort of it digs into resilience, it digs into, you know, the deeper things I mean, I'm saying some people who were talking about like Natalie Turner published a blog recently, which was really, really inspirational and it was talking about the future we can create because we've got an opportunity to create it right now. Based on Yeah, the environment. You know, one of my topics that I don't talk about, that I write a lot about, and I share a lot about is the climate catastrophe that's coming our way. And, you know, people aren't really connecting the dots, but we are, this is part of the climate catastrophe. I'm saying the world blaming China for this, I mean, we're all responsible for what's going on. If, if we didn't like what China was doing in their in their markets, then we shouldn't have been doing business with them. And and now then, of course, we're facing the fact that the supply chain is 100% reliant on reliance on China and all the safety equipment that we need has to come from one place and, you know, so it's quite remarkable, but we're all responsible for where we are as a world, right? So for me, I suppose it's, it's the futurists with big hearts that are standing out to me. You know, the people who are who are trying to get people to come together and stay positive. You know, there's a lot of negativity. There's a lot of word, you know, conspiracy theories. And I don't think any of that helps, right? So it's just gonna keep us together, share the good news, shout out, shout out beautiful mankind is, you know, what is his name Captain Tom in the UK raising all their money for the NHS, you know, we got to share love, got to share beauty, you know, New York Times article that social media has become a more positive place, which is just so fantastic to see that. And I think we're all saying that we're also seeing a lot more people come onto social media, who don't have a lot of expertise because they haven't been participating. And they're coming there, because that's where we're talking now. Right. And so I think, you know, we've got an opportunity to really turn a lot of things around and to create a new future. And I think as speakers if we can take this take this time, and so, where are people now? How are they feeling? And how can we bring them forward? Towards the world that we will want to create together that's going to be better for everyone. And, you know, it sounds like very optimistic. You said earlier, you're a bit of a cynic. I think we're going to put cynicism aside. For a while. The world was getting far too cynical. And some of the really smart people I know. We're getting far too cynical. And I, I can be cynical with the best of them. But I refuse to let cynicism overtake me. No. So I think we've gotten up, we've got an opportunity, but it's got to be about we've got a guide, we've got to, we've got to help. We've got to we've got a we've got to be a bomb for society if we want to be relevant right now. And and that can be a big step away from what we might have been doing even a couple of months ago. When you look at things like you know, the top skills of the future, about you know, you talk about creativity. I think creativity is still very, very relevant. But how do you talk about it right now in this situation? Have you been? Have you? James Taylor Yeah, actually? Yeah, it was. It was actually interesting. I was talking with a client this morning about about this, who was a, it's a foreign government, a government in the Middle East, who's actually asked me to come and do a series of videos and which are going to be social media video. So a short one minute is that I do a lot of these little one minute videos, these kind of, I call them snackable, stackable content. So it's just something very actionable, that I have a framework that I can do. And we were just having a discussion. Obviously, they brought me in because they want someone who's going to talk about creativity, but the spin the angle that we're really taking about is really about remote creativity. When you're stuck in my head. I'm kind of imagining I'm that person who's sitting in a one bedroom apartment, maybe with two kids partner, two kids can't go out just now. So it's easy thing like creativity feels very, you know, lightweight. It doesn't really so how does As it relates to them and, and we're just gonna, we were just talking this morning about different ideas like on my topic for someone creativity, how that applies. So for example, things like the actual the physical space in which you work in having a creative little creative exercise, especially if you're working with you're spending time a lot of time with kids or younger people as well. How you get, you know, we were talking about getting creative with finances, your finances, you're having to think about things I know, we're certainly very creative. And I think this is a big change. I think that will probably happen, I would say definitely here in the UK, where I'm speaking from just now. But people like Richard Africa talk about what's the single thing you can do to deal with environmental crisis crisis. And he said, Don't waste don't waste don't waste. And so we're seeing in terms of how our cooking patterns have changed, and we're actually getting very creative now we think, oh, let's try what we did that thing. What if we did that with that and and so on. I'm actually seeing from this, from my perspective, I'm seeing an outpouring of creativity in terms of how we're doing things. And also that doesn't, doesn't even include in terms of what's going on in the world of medicine, and, you know, medical devices. The things are being built at incredible speeds and huge ingenuity and innovation as well. But just on the personal side, I definitely feel you need to you need to adapt your message for what is in people's hearts and in their heads just now. Andrea Edwards Yeah, I think you always do. But it's never been more important because your looks or your scans or your Facebook page or LinkedIn fades and, you know, sometimes you people still so many people, it's like business as usual on LinkedIn. And you see the marketing campaigns from businesses and they obviously haven't switched them off. Like how can you not be in tune and, and of course, the mistakes are coming out, you know, there was To an insurance company in India, that to absolutely ridiculous campaign around death, just at the beginning of, you know, just as a pandemic was really starting to take hold, and, you know, so we've, you know, it's always important to be in tune with your customer, whoever, whoever that is for you. And whatever you do whatever you speak about pivoting to where people are being really authentic, being really heart driven. The other thing that I think is really important is if you're not an emotionally intelligent person naturally go and read up about emotional intelligence, understand it, because that's what's gonna help you succeed at this time. James Taylor Now, let's talk about some more prosaic things as well. Are there other any kind of online resources or tools or apps that you find I kind of getting you know, you've found you've always going to be using but you find them even more useful. Now. I think that maybe you've discovered now that you think after two years time, perhaps you still think it's gonna be giving value to your life and your work. Andrea Edwards Well, I have to tell you a secret. I recently discovered iMovie and iMovie on my phone. And so I realized I can do little bits of video and put them together. So I'm feeling very clever. Because I'm, it's just one of those things I write, I like to write. And so my blogs are long, you know, two to two and a half thousand words. And I've always liked to write and it but I know that people like video as well. So I'm trying to do a bit more of a mix. And I'm going to be doing a lot more mimics I'm going to do my next book was going to be the social leadership Manifesto, which is my sort of philosophy on social media. And I've decided I'm going to do it as a series of videos on YouTube. Because I think it's a really important message for this time. It's not going to be short form. I don't do anything short. But apps wise, I've got to tell you, I'm very I'm very young. I'm very loyal to the app. I use I can't tell you how many I've subscribed to, I can't tell you how many I pay for. And my husband has asked me to go and look at all the apps that I paid for and start, stop paying for the ones that I haven't used. Because you know, that's the first thing you do. So I'm, I'm, I'm pretty basic. And I always have been pretty basic because it's not about the fashion the show. For me, it's about the message. I think the probably the size I value the most is Shutterstock Shutterstock. Not just for the quality of the image images that they've got, but also for the editing that they use. They're going to edit this page, but i'm, i'm not i'm not a heavy up user. I never have been. So I'm sorry. I'm what is because I'm inspirational to share that. James Taylor I know a lot of people that I've kind of gone back and forth with use tools in the past which have things like Hootsuite, for example, which helped manage all of our social media. And we've actually found out ourselves to go completely back the other way. We can do pretty much everything natively now instead, yeah. What do you what do you do to manage all these different social channels, social listening and also posting? Andrea Edwards Well, I used to be very active with Hootsuite. And I know it's probably been about 18 months now. And I, that's one of the probably one of the accounts I need to cancel. But I'm just interacting as I as I interact, so it's real. I don't I'm not doing as much as I used to do a long time ago. I'm doing less anyway. So. But yeah, so I'm interacting in real time. All the time. I think the automation platforms are great. But I don't feel that I mean, I'm, I'm across multiple social media platforms, but I feel that I'm in control of all of them. I'm not overwhelmed by them. And I'm not just there to be there. I'm there for a reason. So yeah, sorry. Yeah. So I'm what I'm less inclined towards Oh, Sort of bats these days. James Taylor And more about, you know, my emotional intelligence. Are there any books you'd recommend for someone that listening to just now really wants to kind of Read more about this think more about this so that any good kind of books or places to go to this think about more about emotional intelligence. Andrea Edwards I was reading an article it was on on ink, and I don't read a lot of stuff on ink the other day, which was about emotional talent, intelligence. So Daniel was a Daniel Goleman, who wrote the original book on it. Does that sound right? James Taylor Yeah, can't remember actually. Yeah, we can have a link to it here as well. Andrea Edwards Yeah. I kind of liked the book. It was a bit academic for me. But this other article was talking to leaders about being emotionally intelligent at this time. And it was like five tips. And it was like, well, I find it really hard. I find that I don't need to learn about emotional intelligence because I am. Right so you don't need to give me a tip on how to be emotionally intelligent. I know. I can tell that somebody is feeling uncomfortable. I can tell that someone's excited you know, I've got I I just an in tune with other people. So I've never gone and read a book on it because I don't need to be Because I am, you know, domain, but there are a lot there's a lot of information out there these days for emotional intelligence and, and I think if you don't naturally have that skill, I definitely think it's one you should be looking to master anyway. But at this time in particular, you know, we were hearing stories of managers who are making their employees seen on video, video all day, so that they know that the employees are working, but that the employee still has to homeschool their children. You know, in Asia, there's often three generations of whole community living together in a house. You know, it's, we've got to be a lot more in tune with what we're asking about people, but also the emotional sort of toll that this situation is having on people. We can't expect them to be the same as if they're in the office, because it's not the same night and you know, if someone's reading up about what's going on at the moment, they're really interested in what's going on there. They're investing deeply on what's going on in mind is going to be in a million different pieces trying to bring it all together. So expecting them to deliver an eight hour day with with the complexity that exists around them in their home life is just ridiculous. And this is happening all over the world at the moment, these expectations that, you know, my husband works with an American company, and it was all a big joke until a couple of weeks ago. You know, they're laughing about it, and then all of a sudden, they started to understand that this is a little bit more serious. And then then they started to go into a little bit more awareness, I suppose of the situation that they didn't give Steve that credit when he was going through it. So that was that was that was pretty interesting watching that evolve. And I think we're all very, very different stages. A lot of people haven't even accepted it. James Taylor A lot of people don't agree with what what governments are doing right. Depending depending on where you're where you're listening to this from just now you're in your you're perhaps in Different stage of this process and also, you know, we went about, you know, the, the stages of you of grieving you know, you first you deny and then you need to finally come through to acceptance. So we're on that on different trajectories as well. And a final thing, Andrew if people want to kind of thank you so much for coming on today I know this is your You are so passionate about this, about this topic about, about communication and, and communicating in an authentic kind of way. And I know you kind of live this, you breed this as well. where's the best place for people to go to learn more about you, your writing your different social play is a one ticket place that they can go they can go find all the different places you're on. Andrea Edwards So Andrea T Edwards is my professional name. So that's my website, as well as my Twitter handle LinkedIn, Facebook, and I've got some other profiles but they're not my professional one. So if you want to come and join me there, I'm, um that's where more of me comes to the for the But you know, I am really passionate about it. I think we need to evolve as a species, we need to lift up human consciousness, human consciousness needs to rise up, we have an opportunity to do it. And the climate crisis was always gonna cause an economic catastrophe. So it were in that. So we get to rebuild now, and we get to rebuild before before it's too late. And I think so I think we're beginning a really massive opportunity, that to the speaking community, it's a time to act with great integrity, to be really, really connected to the feelings that are ricocheting all around the world, right. People are really really scared. They're frightened. People like me on on, I'm excited about what we can create. But we've got a long way to go before we can get there, right and we have to be in shape. with what's going on, and, and be relevant to this time, and even if people just say, for the next three months, I'm just gonna, I'm just going to be of service to my community and do what I can do to help them. And that will set you up for the long term. But if you get it wrong right now, if your message is really jarring to the point of it and being offensive to people in your community, I think it will be hard to come back from that. And that's, that's that's what I really wanted to get across today. And thanks so much, James, for giving me the opportunity. Because we can do this and let's support each other through it. It's really hard time for entire community. But we can come through this but it is a chance for us to stand up and operate at a different level. And I'm excited to see that James Taylor well Andrea, thank you so much for coming on today. Sharing me we can hear in your voice your passion for this as well and thank you for the sharing and and kind of just really Telling the community speak community out there. Some of those wise words as well and I wish you all the best and stay healthy and stay safe. Thank you so much for coming on the Speakers Life today. Andrea Edwards Thanks for having me. More of Andrea T Edwards Learn More About SpeakersU #speakerslife #speakersU

Dear Manna Family, We live in uncertain times. Uncertainty conveys the idea of unpredictability and ambiguity. Certainty speaks to that which is predictable and specific. A pandemic is so uncertain, because so much about it is unknown. After all, the last truly global pandemic occurred in 1918. The corona virus is full of uncertainties. Will I or my loved ones be infected with the virus? How will this pandemic change the world we live in? When will it end, and will we ever be able to go back to living like we did before the pandemic, or are we now entering a ‘new normal?’ Is anything certain in an uncertain world? A good example of living with certainty in uncertain times is Daniel. In 605 B.C. King Nebuchadnezzar invaded the kingdom of Judah for the first time and deported members of the Jewish nobility to Babylon. Daniel, who was a teenager at the time, was among those captured and taken 500 miles away to the city of Babylon. His whole world was turned upside down. King Nebuchadnezzar was always on the lookout for talent to help him administer his empire. So Daniel and other Jewish youths were enrolled in a three year Babylonian leadership development program. They lived in what we would call ‘dormitories’ and ate the food that the king provided. However, the king’s food was considered to be ‘unclean’ according to the Law of Moses. It would be considered a sin for a Jew to eat it. Most people would say, ‘When in Rome, do as the Romans do.’ Daniel 1: 8 But Daniel made up his mind that he would not defile himself with the king’s choice food or with the wine which he drank; so he sought permission from the commander of the officials that he might not defile himself. Vs 9 Now God granted Daniel favor and compassion in the sight of the officials. Notice that Daniel made up his mind to honor God, even as a slave in foreign land. Everything in Daniel’s circumstances had changed, but Daniel’s convictions didn’t change. Daniel trusted the certainty of God’s presence and God’s promises, and God honored Daniel’s faith. When he asked permission of the authorities to not eat the king’s food it was granted. No matter how much uncertainty the corona virus has brought into your life, you can trust in the eternally certain character of God. We serve a God who controls the destinies of planets, people and even tiny viruses. In these uncertain times, make up your mind, like Daniel did, to trust and obey the God who never changes. They watch what He will do in your changing world. Remember, God designed us to “do life together!” Love and Prayers, Brad

On this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy and Smart Podcast, I welcome Daniel Chelette, Amy Arundale and Justin Zych on the show to discuss some questions from our presentation at the Combined Sections Meeting in Denver, Colorado entitled, Turning the Road to Success Into a Highway: Strategies to Facilitate Success for Young Professionals. In this episode, we discuss: -How work-life balance evolves in your career -The physical therapy awareness crisis -How to tackle the female leadership disparity in physical therapy -Burnout and when to pivot in your career -And so much more! Resources: Amy Arundale Twitter Daniel Chelette Twitter Justin Zych Twitter   A big thank you to Net Health for sponsoring this episode!  Learn more about Four Ways That Outpatient Therapy Providers Can Increase Patient Engagement in 2020!   For more information on Daniel: Daniel Chelette is a staff physical therapist at Orthopedic One, Inc., a private practice in Columbus, OH. He graduated from Duke University with his Doctorate of Physical Therapy in 2015. He is also a graduate of the Ohio State University Orthopedic Residency Program and Orthopedic Manual Therapy Fellowship Programs. He became a Fellow of the Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists in April. Since June of 2018, he has served as the Chair of the Central District of the Ohio Physical Therapy Association. Daniel’s interests include evaluating and treating the complex orthopedic patient, peer to peer mentorship, marketing and marketing strategy and advancing the physical therapy profession through excellence, expert practice, and collaborative care.   For more information on Justin: Dr. Zych currently practices physical therapy in Atlanta, GA as an ABPTS certified orthopaedic specialist (OCS) and a Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopaedic Manual Physical Therapists (FAAOMPT) with Emory Healthcare. Additionally, Justin is an adjunct faculty member with Emory University’s Doctor of Physical Therapy program and a faculty member of Emory’s Orthopaedic Physical Therapy Residency. Justin earned his Bachelor of Science from Baylor University, then graduated from Duke University with his Doctorate in Physical Therapy. He has completed advanced training in orthopaedics through the Brooks/UNF Orthopaedic Residency and OMPT Fellowship programs, while concurrently practicing as a physical therapist and clinic manager in Jacksonville, FL. Justin is actively involved with the Academy of Orthopaedic Physical Therapy and Academy of Physical Therapy Education. He has identified his passions lie in clinical mentorship and classroom teaching, specifically to develop clinical reasoning and practice management for the early clinician.   For more information on Amy: Amelia (Amy) Arundale, PT, PhD, DPT, SCS is a physical therapist and researcher. Originally from Fairbanks, Alaska, she received her Bachelor’s Degree with honors from Haverford College. Gaining both soccer playing and coaching experience through college, she spent a year as the William Penn Fellow and Head of Women’s Football (soccer) at the Chigwell School, in London. Amy completed her DPT at Duke University, and throughout as well as after, she gained experience working at multiple soccer clubs including the Carolina Railhawks F.C. (now North Carolina F.C.), the Capitol Area Soccer League, S.K. Brann (Norway), and the Atlanta Silverbacks. In 2013, Amy moved to Newark, Delaware to pursue a PhD under Dr. Lynn Snyder-Mackler. Working closely with her colleague Holly Silvers, Amy’s dissertation examined primary and secondary ACL injury prevention as well as career length and return to sport, primarily in soccer players. After a short post-doc in Linkoping, Sweden in 2017, Amy took a role as a post-doc under David Putrino at Mount Sinai Health System and working as a physical therapist and biomechanist at the Brooklyn Nets. Outside of work, Amy continues to play some soccer, however primarily plays Australian Rules Football for both the New York club and US National Team. Amy has also been involved a great deal in the APTA and AASPT, including serving as chair of the AASPT’s membership committee, Director of the APTA’s Student Assembly, and as a member of the APTA’s Leadership Development Committee.   Read the full transcript below: Karen Litzy (00:00): Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm happy to have each of you on and I'm going to have you introduce yourself in a second. But just for the listeners, the four of us were part of a presentation at CSM, the combined sections meeting through the American physical therapy association in Denver a couple of weeks ago. And our talk was creating a roadmap for your physical therapy career. And afterwards we had a Q and a and we just had so many questions that we just physically couldn't get to them due to time constraints and the such at CSM. So we thought we would record this podcast for the people who were there and the people who weren't there to answer the rest of the questions that were in our Slido queue. Cause I think we had quite a bit of questions. So, but before we do that, guys, I'm just gonna shoot to you and have all of you give a quick bio, tell us who you are, what you do, what you're up to, and then we'll get to all of those questions. So Justin, I'll have you start. Justin Zych (01:00): Sure, so I'm Justin Zych. I'm currently with Emory university. I am teaching in an adjunct role with the DPT program and then also the orthopedic residency. I went through and did an orthopedic residency and manual therapy fellowship through Brooks rehab in Jacksonville and did my PT education with Duke university. Daniel Chelette (01:28): Hey everybody. My name's Daniel Chelette. I also graduated alongside Justin from Duke in 2015. And also completed an orthopedic residency at the Ohio state university and then stayed on and completed a fellowship and with manual therapy at Ohio state as well. And then worked in an outpatient orthopedic clinic for a couple of years and then was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to join on and work as a physical there, the player performance center with the PGA tour. So actually up to two months into that and it's been a pretty cool experience. So that's where we're at right now. Amy Arundale (02:15): Hi, I'm Amy Arundale. I'm a physical therapist and biomechanistic with the Brooklyn nets. I also went to Duke although a few years before Dan and Justin and then worked in North Carolina for a little while as a sports physical therapist as well as working with a large soccer club before going and doing a PhD at the university of Delaware under Ireland Snyder Mackler. So did research on primary and secondary ACL injury prevention did a postdoc in Sweden with Juan activist and Martin Haglins before moving here to do Brooklyn. Karen Litzy (02:56): Well, thank you all for joining me and allowing the listeners to get a little bit of a glimpse into our CSM talk for those who weren't there and for those who were, and maybe we didn't answer their questions while we were there. We can answer it right now. So Daniel, I'm going to throw it to you. I'm going to have you take the lead for the remainder here. So take it away. Daniel Chelette (03:20): Let's do it. All right, so just a quick little background of the foundation or basis for this talk. It really focuses on some lessons and things that we have learned through the four VAR unique experiences up until this point about professional growth and professional development and things we've learned, the easy way and things we've learned the not so easy way. And just tidbits of wisdom we've picked up along the way and we thought it'd be valuable to put it together and have a talk for CSM. And that's kind of what well what the basis of all this was. So towards the last portion of the talk we just opened up wide open Q and A. and we got through a few questions but we've got a handful more that we're going to go with. So we're going to start out with let's see. What do you recommend for the future PT that wants to get involved in a specific section of PT but wants to remain local to their community? Amy Arundale (04:26): I can start with that one. I think one of the nice things about being involved in the like sections is a lot of times they actually are based where you're at. So they don't necessarily, they may require going to conferences but they sometimes don't even require that. So it's really easy actually to stay local and still contribute and get involved in the sections. Really. The big piece there and is just reaching out and saying, Hey, I'm really interested in getting involved. How can I volunteer? And that might be, you know, helping with a membership that, which might be making phone calls or emails or following up with people who have maybe accidentally dropped their section or their APTA membership. It might be helping with various other projects, but a lot of times those are actually you know, maybe they're internet based or they're going to be through conference calls. So it's pretty easy to stay local. Karen Litzy (05:27): Yeah, I think that's a great answer. I'm pretty involved in the private practice section of the APTA and I would echo what Amy said. A lot of you can get involved in committees. So a lot of the sections have individual committees and most of that work is done online with, maybe you have to go to the annual meeting of that section, but that's just once a year. And the good news is if you're doing a lot of things online, you're meeting people. When you go to, let's say the section meetings each year, you'll get to know people in your immediate local area. And it's a great way to start making and nurturing those connections in those relationships. So then you'll have people in your immediate area that you can go to for guidance and just to hang out and have fun as well. But I think starting, like Amy said, just have to ask. Daniel Chelette (06:27): Yeah. That’s beauty of the age that we live in is that it's really easy to connect be a long distance. So technology allows us to do that. And I'm a part of a committee through the American Academy of orthopedic manual physical therapists. It's the membership committee. And everybody's all over the place where all across the country. And that was just something I got plugged into and I've met a lot of cool people through it and have made some connections within that realm. Be that, so there's a lot of different like online and long distance ways that you can get connected without being connected, which would be, is it helpful if there's a particular area you want to stay in, but you still want to get connected? Two people within your community but also outside. Karen Litzy (07:17): All right, Daniel, go ahead. Take it away. Daniel Chelette (07:21): All right. We're stepping it up here. This next, and this is a good metaphysical question. Do you compartmentalize your life? How do you approach the interaction between family and professional domains? Justin Zych (07:36): So yeah, that is a really deep question. I'll try to go through and answer to the best of my ability. I think that that intersects a little bit with my section of the talk, which really focused on trying to make sure that you could handle all of the new responsibilities that come with being a new physical therapist. I'm getting used to the responsibilities and productivity expectations, but while also at the same time understanding that it's important to have a balance outside of the clinic and a really good work life balance. So as far as compartmentalizing it, I don't know if I've specifically sat down and tried to put things into boxes. I do have a little bit of a blend. I mean, even my wife works for a different physical therapy company, so we share a little bit of a shared language with that. Justin Zych (08:24): But it's important that whether it's documentation or other things. When I leave the clinic, I try to leave and make sure that I have a little bit of time for me and time to focus on whether that's my own professional development going and taking advantage of opportunities like this to meet and talk with other people or just relax and kind of step away from the responsibilities that you go through throughout the day. So that's a great question, but a very, I think you're going to find a bunch of individual answers from it. Daniel Chelette (08:56): Yeah, I think it really, it's an individual question kind of like Justin mentioned in, I think for me. What I've found is, you know, maybe well work life, work life balance, particularly going through residency and a fellowship you know, work life balance, a 50, 50 split, maybe not completely realistic, it's a work life division. So where you just have, you have things within your life, be it relationships or activities or whatever. We are able to unplug a little bit from work. And those might be bigger parts of your life at different points in your life. But it's being able to, you know nurture and engage in all aspects of who you are as a person. And not just work, work, work, work, work but kind of be guided by what you're passionate about, what's important in your life. And those will take up bigger sections of your life pie at different points in your life. So it's just important to try to have a division but not necessarily think that you have to keep that division at a certain level at all times throughout your life because life changes. Amy Arundale (10:11): So my old advisor LENSTAR Mackler and I've also heard Sharon Dunn use the metaphor of juggling. And they talk about juggling rubber balls and crystal balls. So your crystal balls being the things that are like really, really important. The things that you have to keep in the air because if you drop they shatter, so those might be like family, they might be important relationships. They might be work. And then you also then also have rubber balls. So rubber balls would be then things that if you drop they'll bounce back. They're not quite as crucial to keep in the air all times. And, that balance between some of those rubber balls and crystal balls is always going to change. But that there are some things that you have to keep in the air and some things that you can let drop or you might have, they might have a different kind of juggling cycle than others. Amy Arundale (11:07): So yeah, I think it changes from time to time. You know, I've had periods of time where I've basically just worked full time. My postdoc was a great example. I was basically, you know, going to work during the day working on postdoc stuff and then coming home and trying to finish off revisions on my PhD papers. And I was in a long distance relationship at the time, so it kind of just worked that I was literally working, you know, 14 sometimes 14, 16 hours a day. That's not sustainable for a long period of time though. And I'm guilty of sometimes not being good at that balance. I would like to think as I've gotten older, I'm better at creating time where I'm not working or you know, actually taking vacations where I'm putting an email like vacation, email reminder on and not looking at emails. Amy Arundale (12:04): But it's going to change from time to time. Those priorities will change as your life changes. So I don't know if it's necessarily compartmentalizing, but prioritizing what needs to be, what's that crystal ball? Are those crystal balls and what are those rubber balls?   Karen Litzy: Okay. You guys, they were all three great answers and I really don't think I have much to add. What I will say is that as you get older, since I'm definitely the oldest one of this bunch, as you get older, it does get easier because you start to realize the things that drive your happiness and the things that don't. And as you get older, you really want to make, like one of my crystal balls, which I love by the way, it's Sharon Dunn is genius obviously. But for me, one of my crystal balls I'm going to use that is happiness. Karen Litzy (12:58): And so within that crystal ball, what really makes me happy. And that's something that I keep up in there at all times. And at times maybe it is work. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's my relationship, maybe it's my family or my friends or it's just me sitting around and bingeing on Netflix. But what happens when you get older is I think, yeah, I agree. I don't know. And I think we've all echoed this, that I don't think you compartmentalize. You just really start to realize what's the most meaningful things for you. Right now. And it's fluid and changes sometimes day to day, week to week, month to month, year to year. Daniel Chelette (13:55): All right. And one, one quick thing on that last question. Kind of a hot topic, particularly in the medical doctor community is burnout and resiliency and you'll see those terms thrown around a lot. And I think a big thing is to realize that those types of things as far as burnout and kind of getting to a point, we're just sort of worn out with what with the PT professional, which do on a daily basis everybody's susceptible to it. You know, we can all get caught in this idea that maybe we're indestructable or you know, Oh, I can take on as much as I wanted to or need to like machine X, Y and Z. At a certain point it's a marathon, not a sprint. And you have to sort of like Karen and Amy alluded to that prioritization is huge. And definitely gets a little bit easier as you gain more life experience and kind of see what matters and maybe what doesn't so much. Daniel Chelette (14:51): Okay, now they're kind of good solid question here. So I'm going to paraphrase a little bit in, So companies, businesses usually do something really specific now for a specific product or a service or something like that. They focus on one thing. Daniel Chelette (15:02): In PT, we do many things. Is there an identity crisis within the profession of physical therapy? And how do we address it? So I’ll kind of get the ball rolling? That's a heavy question. I think to a certain degree, I don't know if I would say crisis, but I do think at times like I use the situation of if somebody asked me what physical therapy is. Initially I have a little bit of a hard time describing it. I think, I guess the mission statement of the vision 2020 is sort of what I fall back to. It's a really good snapshot of how we can describe what we do. It's basically helping to optimize and maximize the human experience through movement and overall health and, you know, but that in itself is a little bit vague and a big picture and sort of hard to really put a specific meat too. So, yeah, I think, I think to a certain degree it's a little bit hard to say what is physical therapy’s identity? What do you guys think? Amy Arundale (16:21): I would say, I don't know if we have an identity crisis, but I think we have an awareness crisis. I think the general public's knowledge and awareness of physical therapy and then also within the medical profession, the awareness and knowledge of what physical therapy is I think is a massive problem because that knowledge and awareness isn't there. And probably part of it then comes from us. I think, you know, Dan, what you're saying, I think that is that kind of, if we can't describe ourselves then no wonder other people can't figure out what we do or how we do it. So I'll give a shout out actually to Tracy Blake who's a physical therapist and a researcher in Canada. And one of the things that the last time when we sat down and had a chat was, she kinda gave me this challenge was if someone were to walk up to you and ask you what you do, come up with a way to describe what you do without using any medical terminology. Amy Arundale (17:28): So without using movement, without using sports, without using some of our fallback terminology, like come up with that elevator pitch of this is what I do. So I'm happy if you've got that at the ready. If you understand that, if you can kind of, yeah, the drop of a dime, give that, you know, five seconds spiel about what physical therapy is, then suddenly, you know, that person knows. But we've all got to have that at the ready and we've all that. I'd be able to do that so that we can put it in a common language that, you know, your next door neighbor can understand, that your grandmother can understand. So when they come to you and say, you know, you know, my hip's been bothering me for six weeks and I've been going to a chiropractor you've got that language to be able to say, well, have you thought about physical therapy? Amy Arundale (18:29): When you're talking to a doctor in a hospital or even just in a, you know, normal conversation you know, you've got that ability to say, well, Hey, you know, what about PT? Yeah, let's not put them on an opioid. Let's get them into physical therapy. So I think it's really a Big awareness crisis.   Karen Litzy: Okay. So Amy then my challenge to you is to Tracy's point, how do you answer that question? And then I haven't even bigger challenge though I'll say to everyone, but how do you answer that question?   Amy Arundale: So I've written it down. Let's see if I can get it right. The short version of mine is that my goal is to help athletes at all levels develop into their optimal athletic being as well as develop their optimal performance. What if someone says, well, what do you mean by optimal? That's a good question. What does that mean exactly? How do I help you become the best you can be? Karen Litzy (19:27): Okay. Not bad. Not bad. Excellent. Very nice. Very nice. So now I have a challenge for the three of you and let's see. Daniel, well, no, we'll start with Justin. Let's put him on the spot first. Great. All right. So I was at an entrepreneurial meetup a couple of years ago, and the person who was running this, Mmm gosh, I can't remember his name now. Isn't that terrible? But he said, I want everyone to stand up. In five words. So you have five fingers, right? Most of us. So in five words, explain to me what you do. So talk about stripping it down to its barest essentials. Simplifying to the point of maybe absurdity. It's hard to say what you do in five words, but Daniel, I'll start with you. So someone comes up to you and you say, I'm a physical therapist. Five words. This is what I do. Help people live life freely. Karen Litzy (20:48): Okay. That's not bad. Not bad. Justin. Justin Zych (20:51): I'm not going to use a sentence, but facilitate. Educate. Yeah. Facilitate. Educate. Empower. Does that count that I repeated like six. Now, restore, empathize. Throw the thighs in there. Karen Litzy (21:09): Nice. Yeah. When I did this for this little meetup, I said, I help people move better. That's what I said. Those were the five words. I help people move better. But I do like where I think maybe if we put our heads together and we mashed up all four of ours, I think we'd come up with a really, really nice identity statement that is maybe 10 words. So maybe we can put our heads together after this and come up with a nice identity statement made up of 10 words. And if we were at CSM, we would have the audience do this. This would have been one of their action items. So what I'd be curious is for the people listening to this, you know, put an action item put, what are your five words, what would you do to describe what physical therapy is? And then if you're on Twitter, just tag one of us. You can find all of our Twitter handles at the podcast, at podcast.healthywealthysmart.com in the show notes here. So tag one of us and let us know what your five words are because I'd be really curious to know that. Excellent. All right, Daniel, where are we at? Justin Zych (22:42): So actually I want to, I still want to go back to the last question cause I think there's a really good point in there. So Amy hit it really well with the awareness issue versus the identity crisis within our profession. I, I think one of the things that sets us apart is how dynamic we're able to be. And the skill set that we're given in, you know, when we have our DPT education and when we graduate, you know, granted, you know, we're using the term as a generalist where you can go and specialize further. But I think that that's a, that's a rare but very very powerful trait of our profession is that we're able to help across a spectrum of a lot of patients. The challenge that I would say if that question was worded a little differently is if we focus specifically just on one section, so is there an identity crisis within the orthopedic section? Justin Zych (23:36): If somebody comes in and they have hip pain, are they going to be treated differently by all four of us and then therefore does that make it really tough for us to come up with this five words, 10 words statement? Because we're, we're very heterogeneous in how we, how we address patients still kind of within specific subsets. So I think that's probably the bigger crisis if you will. We still have a, you know, even within specific sections, a 10 lane highway instead of, you know, two or three based off of specific patient needs. Karen Litzy (24:10): And do you think that publication of CPGs helps that it for people who, and this is going off on a totally other question, I realize that, but following up with that, do you think CPGs published CPGs help with that and staying, I guess up and current on the literature can help with that? Do you feel like that is something that might close that gap of huge variability? Justin Zych (24:39): Yeah, I think the way that they're designed, that's exactly what they're trying to do is they're trying to take all of this, this you know, research literature review that we should all be doing and put it in a really nice, you know, consensus statement for us and then give us, you know, specific things to look deeper into the CPG. So I think that it's there, it's just again, how do you, is everybody finding that? And if they are finding it, are they applying it properly, you know, towards their practice. So I like that the information is coming out there. At this point, I'm not completely confident that it's reaching throughout, you know, the spectrum of everybody that it should be. But hopefully, you know, it continues, especially with, as we have new people graduating, we really start to develop that as more of the norm. And then it's a lot easier to not necessarily standardize but get everyone in in a couple of lanes instead of 10 lanes. Daniel Chelette (25:36): So Justin, just to play devil's advocate what about the good things that come with having 10 lanes versus two? And there's some people that I completely am on board with what you're saying, but I think there are plenty of folks that would say, well that's the beauty of physical therapy is that it can, you know, you can really make it make it individualized and what it is to you and you can treat. Obviously there's principles that you abide by, but you can be different then the PT next to you and different to the PT next to them and I can still offer high value. What would you say to somebody who would say that? Justin Zych (26:26): I think that your statement you just said is completely fine. But, the issue that comes about that is that therapist who wants to provide the individual approach, have they, you know, exposed themselves to enough different approaches or different ways that they would look at it, that they can be truly individual to the patient instead of saying, okay, I'm going to focus on I’m a, you know, to throw anyone or anything under the bus here, but I am specifically a Maitland therapist. I'm specifically a McKenzie therapist. And then that approach fits that patient all of a sudden, as opposed to being able to expose yourself enough to be able to flow in and out. Again, based off of what you said, which is I completely agree with that individual approach. So making sure that you have that dynamic flexibility to cater your skills. Sorry, a little bit of a tangent there, but can't help myself. Amy Arundale (27:37): I'll piggy back and put a shout out to people who want to get involved. But one of the things that the orthopedic and the sports section, I'm going to go back to their old names, the orthopedic section and the sports section. In the newer clinical practice guidelines. One of the things that I think Jay has done a great job of is kind of forming committees around each guideline on implementation. So when we did the knee and ACL injury prevention clinical practice guideline, we actually had a whole separate committee that we pulled together that was in charge of how do we help disseminate this information and help clinicians implement it. So that was putting together a really short synopsis for clinicians, a pamphlet or just like one pager that can be like just printed off and given to a clinicians. It was two videos. So videos of actual injury prevention programs, one for field based athletes on one for court based athletes. But getting those out, just like you talked about Justin, you know, that that's sometimes where that or that is where that gap between research and clinical practice comes. And that implementation is so important, but it means that yeah, there's a chance to get involved for people who are interested in helping those guidelines really kind of truly get disseminated in the way that they need to be. Karen Litzy (29:04): Great. And I think that's also really good for the treating clinician because oftentimes as a treating clinician, we feel like we're so far removed from the researchers and even from the journals that you think, well, what is my contribution going to do? Like how can I get involved? I'm the J word, just a clinician. And so knowing that these committees exist and that as a treating clinician, you can kind of be part of that if you reach out to get involved I think is really important because oftentimes I think clinicians sometimes feel like a little Karen Litzy (29:42): Left out, sort of and left behind as part of the club, you know. So I think, Amy, thank you so much for bringing that up. And does anyone else have any more comments on this specific question or should we move on to the next one? Daniel Chelette (29:59): Alright. So Amy and Karen, this question is geared towards you guys. So the question reads while PT is a female dominated field, there is still a disparity in female leadership. Do you have advice for female student physical therapists who may desire those leadership roles? Karen Litzy (30:24): I would say number one, look to the APTA. Look to your state organization, look to your, even where you're working and try to find a female physical therapist or even look to social media, right? Look to the wider world that you feel you can model. So I think modeling, especially for women, for people LGBTQ for people, minorities is so important. So you want to look for those models. Look for the people who are like, Hey, this person is kind of like me. So I really feel like I can follow a model, this person, I would say, look to that first and then follow that person, see what they're doing, try and emulate some of, not so much of what they're doing in PT, but how they're conducting themselves as a professional. And then like I said, during our talk, reach out, you know, try and find that positive mentor of try and find that the mentorship that that you are seeking and that you need and that you feel can bring you to the next level, not only as a therapist but you know, as a person and as a leader within the physical therapy world. Karen Litzy (31:46): And I think it's very difficult. I'll do a shameless plug for myself here really quick. We created the women in PT summit specifically to help women within the profession, a network, meet some amazing female and male leaders within the profession and have difficult discussions that need to be had to advance females within the profession. And I will also say to not block out our male counterparts because they need to be part of the broader conversation. Because without that, how can we really expect to move forward if we don't have all the stakeholders at the table. So I would say speak up, speak out, look at people who are at the top of their game. Karen Litzy (32:40): And then in a high level positions, Sharon Dunn, Claire, the editor of JOSPT, Emma Stokes, the head of WCPT. All of these people, if you reach out to them or you hit them up on social media, they will most likely get back to you. It may not be really fast, but they will probably do that. So I would say look to the broader physical therapy community. Look to the world of physical therapy right down to your individual clinics because I think that you'll find there are a lot of people to model. Amy Arundale (33:41): Mmm, yeah. Yeah. I 100% agree. I think modeling and mentorship are huge. Finding people that you connect with and who can give you honest, upfront feedback but also support. So I feel like I'm pretty lucky in both having really strong women who I consider as mentors, cause I think that is important. When I was part of the student assembly, Amy Klein kind of oversaw the student assembly and she became someone who I really look up to and admire and will go to for, I know she'll give me it straight whether it's you know, good or bad, I know she'll give it to me straight and I need that. But then also Joe Black is somebody who's also been a longtime mentor of mine recently. And the Stokes I've connected with and that was just meeting her at a conference. And we connected at a conference and had an amazing conversation and that's developed further too. So I think mentorship and then getting involved seeking the opportunities. Mmm. And seeking and creating, cause sometimes they're not already there. Sometimes, you have to create them yourself. Some of those opportunities that you want going out and saying, Hey, can I volunteer here? Where they may not have had volunteers before. So finding those opportunities that you want and that you think will help you develop towards your end goal. Justin Zych (34:53): I was just going to say really quick of course you two have been, you know, great examples of how females can Excel and create their own path. Justin Zych (35:08): The thing about mentors is with mentors, it's so important to have a variety of mentors because you're going to pick out different things that the mentors are going to help you with. One of my most influential mentors was a female. She was, you know, I was involved with her in the fellowship program that I was in. And she really helped give me some really blunt but helpful feedback that helped a lot with some of my soft skills. So I'm kind of exposing myself a little bit, but she told me that after my lecture, it was on the cervical spine. She was like, yeah, like the content was great. You just weren't likable and just kind of threw that right at me, let me chew on it a little bit. But that actually really changed how I approached a lot of different things and helped me develop those soft skills. Justin Zych (35:55): So at the same time, she helped me through some managerial struggles that I was having. So that variety is incredibly important. And I've been a mentor too. You know, some of my mentees were females and they're doing amazing things right now and I hope that whatever feedback I gave them, they took the right things from and continue to move forward. So it's an issue that goes across, you know, the gender lines. And as males, I want us to be aware that it's going on as well. And not to lead into that discrepancy that Karen described, but still provide that same level of mentorship, same level of opportunity and consideration. So it's a great question and hopefully the gap narrows as we go forward. Daniel Chelette (36:59): Oh, here's another good one. Any recommendations for a PT that is two years out and feels completely lost and, or in the wrong setting? Justin Zych (37:10): Yeah, so I'll start with that one. You know, of course understanding that I probably don't have the exact answer here. This really tied into my portion of the talk, which was the importance of the clinical environment within your first couple of years of development. And then also making sure that you understood that we clarified the difference between being engaged in your environment, in your system, and even in your organization versus being burnt out. And how those two aren't necessarily exactly the same thing. Burnout is something that we describe as more of like a longterm reaction with like physical manifestations where engagement is more of deciding how you want to use your remaining effort in the day, the effort that you can discern as I can do this to go home and watch Netflix or I can do this to really give back into my system. Justin Zych (38:06): So I actually had somebody right after the talk come up to me and just say that she really appreciated just hearing it and understanding that there are a lot of people that have that same sense where your question's coming from. So I just want to put that out there first of all. So I would say first reflect on what first off what you want out of your clinic and see what they are and are not matching. And if you've been in that for two years, that's a pretty good trial run to figure out if there's a different environment that maybe you would want to consider that's going to work more on engagement. What maybe that you want to be more involved in a clinical instruction and be a CI. Maybe you want to do some project management, have some more specific mentorship or it's just the way that they're setting up their productivity. So is it a question that I'm glad you're steering into right now? But it's gonna take a little bit of reflection not only on what your expectations are of the clinic and how you see yourself as a therapist but going even further, you know, keeping your system, your clinic accountable for are they meeting or at least trying to meet and keep me engaged in those environments. So we should, I wish you luck with that reflection. Amy Arundale (39:27): Nailed it. Daniel Chelette (39:29): Crushed it, man. I just got, I mean, that was a sick answer, man. That was right, right on the money. And the one thing that I would highlight is what I spoke on in my portion of the talk is try to strip it back and think, okay, like what am I about as far as life goes? Like, what am I passionate about? What am I into? What gives me energy? And then kind of builds yourself back up, okay, what as far as work goes, what aligns with that? And then why do I feel a disconnect with where I'm at? And are there ways that I can change my current situation kind of within it? Or do I need to you know, do I need to move on or do something different? Daniel Chelette (40:22): So I would try to use your personal passions and sort of your foundation of who you are as a person to help you kind of reset and try to figure it out. But you know, I think that's a great question cause we all go through it at some point in time. And you know, the concepts of burnout. Mm. Oh, reduced engagement and things. That's all part of the game. And those are completely, but I think burnout obviously isn't a good thing, but don't feel bad or guilty if and when you run into those things. Cause we're all humans. And, they can happen but know that there are ways that you can move out of that and move past that. And that's one of the cool things about PTs. There's so much to so many different things to do and get involved in. But yeah, great question. Amy Arundale (41:15): That passion was just like the one word that I felt like we needed in that answer. So I think those two are perfect.   Karen Litzy: So we're good. We hit all the questions. So I'm going to ask one last question. It's a question that I ask everyone and Justin, I'll start with you. Not to put you on the spot again, but given what you know now in your life and in your career, what advice would you give yourself as a new grad fresh out of Duke. Justin Zych (41:47): Okay. Yeah, no, that's an awesome question. I think the biggest advice that I would give myself is to not have expectations of quick motion, quick development. I'm going through. And in my talk I talked a little bit about, we were in Denver for CSM. So I talked about using the French fry approach with skis where you go down quickly or the pizza approach where you go slowly. So making sure that at times, I was looking at the, you know, what I would tell myself now is make sure that you're looking at just that next step and not focusing on the step that's three or four away. So that you're really present in those moments cause there's a lot of development things that you can potentially miss over as you're trying to really quickly make it to that next step. So take a little bit more of that ski pizza approach. Amy Arundale (42:40): Fabulous. Daniel, go ahead. Daniel Chelette (42:42): I think what I would say is it's a marathon, not a sprint. You know, it's as far as, you know, career goes in, life goes, it's not just, you know, going 110% each and every day. It's being able to look at the long game. So with the short game, kind of along the lines of with what Justin said, just keeping in mind that Mmm,  it's a marathon, not a sprint. You have to keep the big picture in mind. Amy Arundale (43:47): For me, it would be like give yourself permission and that I think that extends to a number of different things. But you know, one of the big ones is kind of self care, you know, kind of giving your self permission to take that time off or to let something else be a little bit higher priority. Whether that's working out or spending time with people, kind of give yourself permission to you know, take that step back and look at things from that 30,000 foot view. So you can really see that big picture. So I think that would probably be mine. Karen Litzy (44:32): Excellent. And then I feel like I've answered this question in various iterations over the years, but I've really think what I would tell myself. Yeah, right. Knowing what I know now and when I first graduated, which was quite a long time ago, would be from a career standpoint to get more involved. Whether that be in the APTA or sections or things like that. Because I really wasn't involved and from a personal standpoint is like I needed to calm down. Yeah. Like the Taylor Swift song, like I needed to calm down and that's what I would tell myself. Like I was always kind of go, go, go, go, go and I have to do this and I have to do that. And so I would tell myself like, calm down. Karen Litzy (45:27): Things will happen. Kind of echoing Justin and Dan, like I really that's advice I would give to myself is like, calm, calm down, you'll be fine. So that's what I would give to myself. So you guys, thank you so much. All of you for taking the time out and answering all the rest of these questions I think will be really helpful for people who are there and people who weren't to get a little taste of what we spoke about at CSM. And like I said, everybody's social media handles and info will be on the podcast website at podcast.healthywealthysmart.com in the show notes under this episode. So you guys, thank you so, so much. I really appreciate it. And everyone, thank you so much for tuning in. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.     Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram  and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest!  Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts!

Daniel also had to intercede for his people in the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus. He needed deliverance from captivity for his people. He understood by the books of the prophecies of Jeremiah that the 3time of deliverance is now. Though the prophecies indicated that the time of deliverance for his people is now yet he Daniel understood that it required prayer and fasting with sackcloth and ashes to shift the prophecies into gear. Hence he set his face to fast and pray. And the first thing he did in his prayer of intercession was to acknowledge God and ask for his forgiveness. Why? Daniel was a man of understanding. He knew that if God truly is a God who keeps covenant with those who love Him and keep His Commandment then being in captivity is a proof that God has not kept His covenant with them. And if He has not kept his covenant them its a proof they have not loved Him and kept His commandments. If they have not kept his commandment then they have sinned. So it became necessary that he starts to intercede from the point of their Iniquity. So Daniel's prayer is summed up in this statement - "O Lord Hear, O Lord Forgive." Precious One, it is time for us to cry to God with this same statement - O Lord hear, O Lord forgive our nations, our people, our leaders, our ministers, our judges and corporate officials. O Lord hear, O Lord forgive our fathers, our children our colleagues, our church leaders. O Lord, hear and forgive. This segment will bless you.

Daniel and Alex DISH. Daniel is great at washing dishes. Alex kinda sucks. So Daniel's gonna judge her washing skills.

Greetings! Welcome to the show today. Last week we talked about one of my favorite heroes, the prophet Daniel; an amazing man who had an amazing impact on everyone who had the privilege of falling under his influence, from the lowest servant to the king himself; and there were multiple kings he served under. And he did so during a very difficult time; a time when God's people were in exile. And you will remember that one of the things that set Daniel apart form everybody else was his prayer life. Intro to Daniel 9— And so today I want us to take a look briefly at the first half of Daniel chapter 9 and see if we can draw some insight into how Daniel prayed and why His prayers proved to be so effective. Daniel, who is an old man at this time, over 80 years old, is serving under Darius (the king of Persia). And he is pouring over the scriptures; particularly over Jeremiah, who had written prophecies concerning Israel's upcoming captivity in Babylon. And Daniel comes across Jeremiah 29:10-12, which says… Jeremiah 29:10-12— “When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you.” Just Three Years Away!— And Daniel begins to think, and is beginning to do the math, “Huh...wait a minute. That puts our captivity around about 67 years. Let's see.....year 605 to 538....yeah that's right. Well, wait a minute....that would mean our captivity is almost over!” And just imagine his excitement. Never before has he come across a passage of scripture that has gotten him this pumped; this shaken with joy. “My God, are you telling me that we are going to be free in three years? In three years I may get to set foot in Jerusalem (Your city) once again!” And he immediately starts praying. And we will get to his prayer in a minute.  Praying Scripture— But let me ask you, do you ever have difficulty knowing what to pray? Sometimes when you start praying (I know I have experienced this) you kind of have writer's block. You think to yourself “If I only knew where to begin.” Well here it is interesting to see that Daniel begins in the scriptures. And his prayers have strong content and amazing power because they flow out of his meditation on the Word of God.  Meditating on The Word— Now some of us, when we make our new year's resolution to “read the Bible more” start by trying to bulldoze through a large chunk of scripture. And when we get to the end, we feel pretty good about the amount of scripture we covered, but (honestly) we didn't get much out of it. Why? Because we didn't take the time to meditate on the Word of God. It's much better to read a shorter passage of scripture and meditate on it. We need to let it's roots sink into our minds and hearts throughout the day. The Cow and The Cud Illustration— Dawson Trotman illustrated Biblical meditation by comparing the way cows {(who have 4 stomachs)} get the cud on which they chew:  A cow eats grass as it grazes early in the morning. When the sun gets hot, it will lie in the shade of a tree, and through the use of a unique elevator system it will bring up the grass from one stomach and thoroughly masticate it. When this is finished, it will put it into another stomach, having gotten from it everything possible in the way of nutrients. Chewing the Word— That is how we need to meditate on the scriptures. Just like Daniel, we need to be willing to stop and chew the cud. And when we do, we will discover such blessings from God's holy word that our lives cannot help but be transformed, because we have allowed God the time to make that scripture personal to us and our own individual situations. Have you ever noticed a difference in your life when you didn't get much into the Word a particular week? And you felt dry and weak, lacking the power of God because maybe you did not take the time to chew the cud? Daniel really kept the disciplines of prayer and meditation at the forefront of his life. Not only did he pray three times a day, but he took the time to chew on the Word of God. And I think that is key. He says in verse 3… Daniel 9:3 (ESV)— 3 Then I turned my face to the Lord God, seeking him by prayer and pleas for mercy with fasting and sackcloth and ashes. Daniel's Mourning— Now picture this. Daniel (a high official) takes off his beautiful royal robes and jewelry and clothes himself with “sackcloth and ashes”, both of which were visual ways of demonstrating to God his need for Him and his willingness to conform to the will of God. And interestingly, our season of Lent begins for many Christians with this symbolic use of ashes. And Lent is also a time when many people give up certain things (a form of fasting) in order to outwardly demonstrate a repentant heart as we anticipate Good Friday. It is a way for us to humble ourselves before God. Now whether or not you fast from something during Lent or receive the ashes or not, nevertheless, humility is always key when it comes to entering in to the presence of God. What is Humility?— But what is humility? Some of us have been taught that it means we have to convince ourselves that we are garbage in comparison to everyone else. But if Christ has called you clean, and has adopted you as His child, who are we to put ourselves down? Should we put down what God has glorified? I don't think so. Measured Against the Greater— I think Phillip Brooks said it best when he said, "The true way to be humble is not to stoop until you are smaller than yourself, but to stand at your real height against some higher nature that will show you what the real smallness of your greatness is."  Looking To The Cross— And you know, he's absolutely right. What we ought to be thinking about is the greatness of God and how small any man's righteousness is by comparison. Don't puff yourself up; but be humbled by the fact that no matter how Holy God has made you, it was your sin and my sin that held Christ to that cross (which is part of what Lent is all about).  Wrestling With God— The next thing we can learn from Daniel concerning prayer is that he prayed with intensity. We see in verse 3 that Daniel pleads with the Lord. And that word “plea” in Hebrew means “to wrestle”. So Daniel wrestles with God, similar to the time when Jacob wrestled with God in a physical sense in Genesis chapter 32. And verse 4 says, “I prayed to the Lord my God...” The Hebrew word “prayed” is an emphatic imperative that denotes extreme intensity. Avoiding Vain Repetition— So many of our prayers are just vain repetitions…Many of us are like the little boy who said his prayers one night and got confused with his rhymes, “Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If he hollers let him go . . . eeny, meeny, miney, mo.” What?! Have you ever prayed to God a ritualistic prayer without ever stopping to think about what you were praying. We need to take our prayers a little more seriously. Daniel's prayer was filled with urgency and fervency. Ten times he says something like, “O, Lord” or “O My God.” The word “O” is actually an untranslatable word that represents a groan. Romans 8:26 says that when we are praying in the Spirit there are often groans that can't be uttered. Have you agonized in prayer? Have you wrestled and groaned when you prayed?... People Groaning for Us— I can testify that the only reason I am where I am today is because I had godly parents and grandparents faithfully praying for me in and throughout my life. God heard their groans for me and He answered them. And the same to you who are listening today. Many of you are followers of Christ today because there were faithful Christians (maybe your mom or your dad, your grandparents, or somebody like that) who were willing to groan and plead about you to the Lord. And there are more people yet to be touched by Christ's Gospel of salvation and a transformed life who are going to be touched because you (when the time and opportunity presents itself) are going to groan before the Savior for the salvation of their souls. The next thing Daniel does is he confesses sins specifically. He says in verses 4-5… Daniel 9:4-6 ESV— [4] I prayed to the LORD my God and made confession, saying, “O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, [5] we have sinned and done wrong and acted wickedly and rebelled, turning aside from your commandments and rules. [6] We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. Faithful Daniel Identifies With Israel— Now what is interesting to me is that Daniel is actually one of the Jews who has remained obedient to God and has been faithful to keep His law in and throughout His whole life. At every single point at which he is tested, he has proved faithful. Yet he still identifies himself with his nation of Israel and recognizes that he is part of a community that has lived in rebellion against God. You see, he takes responsibility. He not only admits that his nation is at fault, but is willing to take some of the blame on their behalf. Now I have heard a lot of preachers who stand up and speak about the evil that is going on in our country. I am one of them. But how often do you see a Christian who is willing to admit that he/she is partially to blame? Sadly you don't see that too often. No, we as Christians are often too busy playing the blame game rather than accepting fault, confessing it before God, and asking Him for healing not just for our nation, but for us specifically; because it is often our sin that is at least a contributing factor to the problem. Confessing— But what Daniel is demonstrating is that confession must remain a constant element in our prayers. If we lose our ability to confess (and not just confess general sin, but specific sins in our lives), then we will lose our ability to recognize, deal with, and turn from the sin that is in our lives and be, as the scriptures say, Holy as He is Holy. We have to repent. We have to confess and be willing to come clean with our sin before God. Expect God to Answer— Now the last element of prayer that Daniel demonstrated is so obvious, but should never be taken for granted; and that is that when we pray, we ought to expect God to answer. Because He always will. When Daniel prayed, he received an answer even before he finished prayer. And there have been times in my life (and I am sure yours as well) where that has happened. But that does not always happen. Sometimes you pray and pray and pray, but nothing seems to happen. And this can be a real struggle for a lot of people. It is sometimes hard to continue praying for something or someone when, after a long time of praying, nothing happens. There are people I have prayed for for years who have still not received Christ. And if we let it, that can discourage us.  He Will Answer— But even when our prayers don't get answered right away, we must persist and not cease in praying because God has promised to hear and answer our prayers. 1 John 5:14-15 (NIV)— 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him. Let us have that confidence today and pray faithfully, so that we might see God move through our prayers in amazing ways. Amen.

LIONs DON'T EAT THEIR SEED Daniel 6:22 My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt. 23 Then was the king exceedingly glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no manner of hurt was found upon him, because he believed in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and they brought those men which had accused Daniel, and they cast them into the den of lions, them, their children, and their wives; and the lions had the mastery of them, and brake all their bones in pieces or ever they came at the bottom of the den.

Small Biz Matters – a half hour program each week where you can work ON your business rather than IN it.with Alexi Boyd, broadcaster, advocate and small business owner.Date: 3 March 2020 So… we’ve all probably got a bunch of smallish concerns using up valuable brain space at the moment. There’s the BAS which was completed (hopefully) only last week, the fires which ravaged many of our fellow business owners, the economy is tanking, there’s no such things as imports from China right now… oh, and a little tiny virus scaring the bejesus out of all of us. So we brought in an expert to talk you through some practical strategies (that’s what the show is all about) to foresee, identify and mitigate the risks of this potential threat.  Welcome to the show Daniel. Topics we’ll be covering: So Daniel, without creating panic and making us think too much about armageddon how can a typical small business owner break down this potential threat into strategies which are achievable and mitigate risk? What industries would be hardest hit in terms of the risk the virus could pose? What are some of the problems we need to consider? How do we go about prioritising these? Staff? Premises? Stock? If security is about mitigating risks what strategies do you suggest to lessen the risk to your business Breakdown into home-based businesses Retail Serviced based businesses Construction Is insurance a factor here, or is it too immediate a threat to be thinking of what damage might be done? To find out more go to their website: https://www.calamity.com.au/ 

Weekend Sermon Notes Title: Jesus Text: Daniel 6:1-28   Main Idea: Be daily faithful to our Savior BECAUSE   1. It will prepare you for trials 2. God will save you through the trials 3. God will use your trials for good   Daniel 6:1-28 ESV 1 It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom 120 satraps, to be throughout the whole kingdom; 2 and over them three high officials, of whom Daniel was one, to whom these satraps should give account, so that the king might suffer no loss. 3 Then this Daniel became distinguished above all the other high officials and satraps, because an excellent spirit was in him. And the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 Then the high officials and the satraps sought to find a ground for complaint against Daniel with regard to the kingdom, but they could find no ground for complaint or any fault, because he was faithful, and no error or fault was found in him. 5 Then these men said, "We shall not find any ground for complaint against this Daniel unless we find it in connection with the law of his God." 6 Then these high officials and satraps came by agreement to the king and said to him, "O King Darius, live forever! 7 All the high officials of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the counselors and the governors are agreed that the king should establish an ordinance and enforce an injunction, that whoever makes petition to any god or man for thirty days, except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document, so that it cannot be changed, according to the law of the Medes and the Persians, which cannot be revoked." 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document and injunction. 10 When Daniel knew that the document had been signed, he went to his house where he had windows in his upper chamber open toward Jerusalem. He got down on his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as he had done previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and plea before his God. 12 Then they came near and said before the king, concerning the injunction, "O king! Did you not sign an injunction, that anyone who makes petition to any god or man within thirty days except to you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?" The king answered and said, "The thing stands fast, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be revoked." 13 Then they answered and said before the king, "Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or the injunction you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day." 14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was much distressed and set his mind to deliver Daniel. And he labored till the sun went down to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, "Know, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or ordinance that the king establishes can be changed." 16 Then the king commanded, and Daniel was brought and cast into the den of lions. The king declared to Daniel, "May your God, whom you serve continually, deliver you!" 17 And a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet and with the signet of his lords, that nothing might be changed concerning Daniel. 18 Then the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; no diversions were brought to him, and sleep fled from him. 19 Then, at break of day, the king arose and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 As he came near to the den where Daniel was, he cried out in a tone of anguish. The king declared to Daniel, "O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?" 21 Then Daniel said to the king, "O king, live forever! 22 My God sent his angel and shut the lions' mouths, and they have not harmed me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no harm." 23 Then the king was exceedingly glad, and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 And the king commanded, and those men who had maliciously accused Daniel were brought and cast into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. And before they reached the bottom of the den, the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: "Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel, for he is the living God,enduring forever;his kingdom shall never be destroyed,and his dominion shall be to the end. 27 He delivers and rescues;he works signs and wondersin heaven and on earth,he who has saved Danielfrom the power of the lions." 28 So this Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

DANIEL 1:Yesterday in Ezekiel, the land was divided in horizontal bands across the entire width of Israel. We will see the 12 gates of the New Jerusalem again in Revelation. We start the little but immensely important book of Daniel today. Daniel wrote this sometime between 540 and 530 BC. As Daniel will relate, he was an exile to Babylon starting from 605 BC. For comparison, Ezekiel tells us that he was deported to Babylonia in 597 (and his location beside the Chebar river might have been 75 miles southeast of Babylon). So Daniel would have come to Babylon only 8 years earlier. Daniel is a wonderful example of what God can do with someone completely surrendered to the Lord. Note Daniel’s devotional habits and how he and his friends completely trusted in God. The book has two clear sections. The first narrates history, and contains the famous stories we all love. The second is prophecy and revelation. Again, like Ezekiel, much of Daniel reappears in the book of Revelation. And as for the question if Daniel was a real prophet, note that Jesus thought he was! ISAIAH 22:Yesterday’s prophecies dealt with Babylon, Edom, and Arabia. 2CORINTHIANS 2:14—3:I want to emphasize the precious verses from the end of chapter 2, and these verses are important for understanding the beginning of chapter 3. GNT Translation note:Dan. 1:2 The Lord let him capture King Jehoiakim and seize some of the Temple treasures. He took some prisoners back with him to the temple of his gods in Babylon, and put the captured treasures in the temple storerooms [there in Babylon].

DANIEL 1:Yesterday in Ezekiel, the land was divided in horizontal bands across the entire width of Israel. We will see the 12 gates of the New Jerusalem again in Revelation. We start the little but immensely important book of Daniel today. Daniel wrote this sometime between 540 and 530 BC. As Daniel will relate, he was an exile to Babylon starting from 605 BC. For comparison, Ezekiel tells us that he was deported to Babylonia in 597 (and his location beside the Chebar river might have been 75 miles southeast of Babylon). So Daniel would have come to Babylon only 8 years earlier. Daniel is a wonderful example of what God can do with someone completely surrendered to the Lord. Note Daniel’s devotional habits and how he and his friends completely trusted in God. The book has two clear sections. The first narrates history, and contains the famous stories we all love. The second is prophecy and revelation. Again, like Ezekiel, much of Daniel reappears in the book of Revelation. And as for the question if Daniel was a real prophet, note that Jesus thought he was! ISAIAH 22:Yesterday’s prophecies dealt with Babylon, Edom, and Arabia. 2CORINTHIANS 2:14—3:I want to emphasize the precious verses from the end of chapter 2, and these verses are important for understanding the beginning of chapter 3. GNT Translation note:Dan. 1:2 The Lord let him capture King Jehoiakim and seize some of the Temple treasures. He took some prisoners back with him to the temple of his gods in Babylon, and put the captured treasures in the temple storerooms [there in Babylon]. NLT Translation notes:2Cor. 3:13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory [reflected there was continually fading away//, even though it was destined to fade away.]14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is [0/being] read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. [That veil is//And this veil can be] removed only by believing in Christ.

In Episode 11, Daniel the Poetic Gent explains how he felt confined in his marriage due to his beliefs. The Bible tells us you should not leave your partner for any reason outside of adultery. So Daniel stayed in this marriage believing that God didnt give him clearance to leave regardless of the abuse. But he soon(years later) reaches his breaking point and asks the question: “You mean to tell me assault and battery isn’t too rough. Discontentment isn’t enough?” Listen to this episode as we dive deep into how religion divided his family, how he felt less than in his marriage, his breaking point, how he rebuilt himself and how he finally overcame fear. Follow Moore to the Story: The Podcast & Show Instagram: @mttsthepodcast #mttsthepodcast Media Network: www.haushillmedia.com | @haushillmedia

A ton of questions has been raised after Week 5 of Big Ten football, but the undefeated Golden Gophers may be the most perplexing one. So Daniel chats with Michigan State reporter from MLive.com Matt Wenzel (1:23) and then from Minneapolis Alex Carlson (7:40) of Rivals about their magical performance in West Lafayette by Tanner Morgan. It's Episode 38 of 10 Big Conference Calls!

The 2019-2020 Boston Celtics Season is fastly approaching. Stop #1 on the road to the season beginning is Training Camp. The stop where the team will get the chance to let their players gel and introduce their all of the new players to the media and the fans and try to allow head coach Brad Stevens and GM Danny Ainge the chance to answer some of the biggest questions surrounding the team before the Regular Seaosn begins on October 23rd. From the question of whether or not the Celtics will go the route of a small ball starting lineup and play 1 big or more of a traditional lineup and play 2 bigs? To the question of who will start out of the group of Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum, Kemba Walker, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart and which player or players will be the ones to accept or forced into the bench role and will the Celtics and their fans have to worry about the team chemistry and cohesiveness being disrupted over the issue of whos starting like they did last season? The Celtics Players, Head Coach Brad Stevens, GM Danny Ainge and Ownership will come together for Media Day on September 30th. The very next day October 1st will be the 1st official practice of the Celtics season. Coming into this training camp Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Kemba Walker and Marcus Smart have already seen game action courtesy of the FIBA World Cup and them representing the USA in the competition. So Daniel and Igor will be joined by Andrew Vernon a lifelong Celtics fan. Also Evan Valenti (@EvanValenti on Twitter) Producer of Celtics Beat

Daniel 6 New International Version (NIV) Daniel in the Den of Lions 6 [a]It pleased Darius to appoint 120 satraps to rule throughout the kingdom, 2 with three administrators over them, one of whom was Daniel. The satraps were made accountable to them so that the king might not suffer loss. 3 Now Daniel so distinguished himself among the administrators and the satraps by his exceptional qualities that the king planned to set him over the whole kingdom. 4 At this, the administrators and the satraps tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. They could find no corruption in him, because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent. 5 Finally these men said, “We will never find any basis for charges against this man Daniel unless it has something to do with the law of his God.” 6 So these administrators and satraps went as a group to the king and said: “May King Darius live forever! 7 The royal administrators, prefects, satraps, advisers and governors have all agreed that the king should issue an edict and enforce the decree that anyone who prays to any god or human being during the next thirty days, except to you, Your Majesty, shall be thrown into the lions’ den. 8 Now, Your Majesty, issue the decree and put it in writing so that it cannot be altered—in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.” 9 So King Darius put the decree in writing. 10 Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. 11 Then these men went as a group and found Daniel praying and asking God for help. 12 So they went to the king and spoke to him about his royal decree: “Did you not publish a decree that during the next thirty days anyone who prays to any god or human being except to you, Your Majesty, would be thrown into the lions’ den?” The king answered, “The decree stands—in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.” 13 Then they said to the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, Your Majesty, or to the decree you put in writing. He still prays three times a day.” 14 When the king heard this, he was greatly distressed; he was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sundown to save him. 15 Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, “Remember, Your Majesty, that according to the law of the Medes and Persians no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed.” 16 So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!” 17 A stone was brought and placed over the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the rings of his nobles, so that Daniel’s situation might not be changed. 18 Then the king returned to his palace and spent the night without eating and without any entertainment being brought to him. And he could not sleep. 19 At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lions’ den. 20 When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions?” 21 Daniel answered, “May the king live forever! 22 My God sent his angel, and he shut the mouths of the lions. They have not hurt me, because I was found innocent in his sight. Nor have I ever done any wrong before you, Your Majesty.” 23 The king was overjoyed and gave orders to lift Daniel out of the den. And when Daniel was lifted from the den, no wound was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 At the king’s command, the men who had falsely accused Daniel were brought in and thrown into the lions’ den, along with their wives and children. And before they reached the floor of the den, the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all the nations and peoples of every language in all the earth: “May you prosper greatly! 26 “I issue a decree that in every part of my kingdom people must fear and reverence the God of Daniel. “For he is the living God and he endures forever; his kingdom will not be destroyed, his dominion will never end. 27 He rescues and he saves; he performs signs and wonders in the heavens and on the earth. He has rescued Daniel from the power of the lions.” 28 So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus[b] the Persian.

Day 254 of the podcast, reading Daniel 4-6 NET, read along at: https://netbible.org/bible/Daniel+4-6/ This is day 254 of our journey. Our reading today talks about three different kings and the way God humbled them. In Daniel 4, we read of Nebuchadnezzar. He again has a dream that no one can interpret apart from Daniel. The dream talks of Nebuchadnezzar's great power, but warns of a time when he will be humbled. Some time later, Nebuchadnezzar speaks of the greatness of the city that he has built by his great power. In that moment, God takes his sanity from him and he is forced to roam the fields like a beast and eat grass like an ox. After 7 years, he humbles himself and is restored to power. Daniel 5 occurs years later when Belshazzar is king. Belshazzar gives a great feast and calls for the articles of God's temple to be brought in for himself and his guests to use. At that moment, a hand appears and writes on the wall. Belshazzar is terrified and brings in Daniel to interpret what has happened. Daniel informs him that his kingdom is about to be taken from him. Sure enough, that very night, Darius the Mede killed Belshazzar and took control of the kingdom. Daniel 6 tells the familiar story of Daniel in the lion's den. Darius appoints Daniel to a high position and makes the other officials jealous, they use Darius's pride to trap Daniel by causing Darius to issue a law that no one may pray to anyone but the king. Daniel continues to pray to God and is thrown in the den of lions, but God is able to rescue him and after a night in the den, Darius pulls him out and gives honor and glory to God. Join me in Daniel 4-6 and give honor to the God of heaven! Key verses: Daniel 4:37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, for all his deeds are right and his ways are just. He is able to bring down those who live in pride. Daniel 5:5 At that very moment the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the royal palace wall, opposite the lampstand. The king was watching the back of the hand that was writing. Daniel 6:23 Then the king was delighted and gave an order to haul Daniel up from the den. So Daniel was hauled up out of the den. He had no injury of any kind, because he had trusted in his God. All Scriptures are from the NET.

The Celtics Talk Radio Crew is back for their 1st of 2 shows in the month of June. The NBA Finals are underway but that doesnt mean theres no action taking place for the Boston Celtics and their fans. With less then 2 weeks to go until the NBA Draft and less then just over 3 weeks to go until the start of NBA Free Agency the Celtics are involved in several reports. From where will Kyrie Irving choose to end up signing and if the Celtics are still a part of the race for the All-Star PG's services or if its down to the teams in New York and LA for his services. To the Celtics interests in All-Star big man Anthony Davis and what it would take for Danny Ainge to give up to get the New Orleans Pelicans to give the big man up rather then giving him to the Lakers, Nets or Knicks who are also interested in the big man. So Daniel and Igor will be joined by Kevin Dixon of Da Barber Shop Sports Show and Rich A Jensen of RedsArmy.com. As they discuss the latest reports surrounding Kyrie Irvings future and which team is in the lead and if theres still a chance that Irving could come back to the Boston Celtics. They will discuss Kevin Durants and the NBA Finals results and how the final outcome could impact Kyries decision whether to stay in Boston or leave. Also we will look towards the NBA Draft and the latest reports suggesting a trade for Anthony Davis could be done before or on that night

Peggy Noe Stevens is an encyclopedia of great information about many bourbon brands. You may not know it, but she's one of the biggest influencers behind many of the great distillery experiences while on the bourbon trail and outside of the state too. Peggy is a pioneer in driving diversity with her leadership behind the Bourbon Women organization and involvement with women-led panels. Peggy is an incredibly talented person that has shaped the industry from being in front of people leading them at bourbon tastings and crafting one of kind experiences behind the scenes. Show Partners: At Barrell Craft Spirits, every release is intentionally unique, and can’t be duplicated. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Use code "BOB2019" for discounted tickets to Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. (Offer good through 6/30.) Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about Wikipedia. What is an experiential expert? Who have you consulted for these experiences? What value do you bring to these experiences? What was it like working at Woodford Reserve? How do you elevate the experience? How do balance the history with modern day innovation? Explain the difference between someone coming up the ranks in the bourbon industry vs. someone just taking it. What was it like when you were named the first female master taster? Do you feel like the media is better today that back then? What about diversity in the whiskey industry? Was Lincoln Henderson your Mr. Miyagi? What are you doing today with this master taster role? Let's discuss Bourbon Women. What was your inspiration for Bourbon Women? Tell us about the growth of Bourbon Women. How do you market the organization? What type of members do you have? What are visitors looking for in a distillery experience? How do you deal with a difficult person in the hospitality industry? How did you help pioneer the Bourbon Trail? 0:00 Did you actually consult him and say you should wear an ascot? 0:03 No, no, he he came. I want to make clear to all the audience that the Ascot was his idea. Are you suggesting I shouldn't 0:15 move forward with it? 0:27 This is Episode 204. of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your hosts Kenny Coleman and per usual we have to go through a little bit of news on June 22. peerless distilling is releasing their four year bourbon. If you caught the Live podcast with Corky Taylor then you may have heard about it, if not no worries as it will be released at a later date. We are very excited for Corky Caleb and the entire peerless team for having the will to hold back sales until this product reached four years old. When we get a chance to try it. We're going to let you know what we think to Buffalo Trace to Hillary is now releasing their next installment in the old charter oak series called French oak. The old charter oak collection is designed to explore honor and celebrate the role of oak in making great whiskey. The oak tree is used in this brand vary from country of origin species, US date and even age there's century barrels that are being used from Oak trees that are 100 203 hundred years old. For this newest release Buffalo Trace contained a small number of barrels from France in 2007 and filled them with Nashville number one. This is the same Nashville used for standard Buffalo Trace Eagle were amongst a few others. The old charter oak is now been bottled and will be available for retail in late June. Last week, we ventured out to Barton for another 1792 foolproof selection, that they started out a little bit different than most because it was raining and there were storms in the area. That meant we had to do our barrel selection inside at the tasting bar at the gift shop instead of the red house because they don't allow people there during the chances of lightning. We made the best of it. And we had six barrels to choose from we narrowed it down to three. And that's I guess fortunate that we ran out of samples there with inside the gift shop. But wouldn't you know the skies parted and we got the sample our barrels inside the house to come away with a winner. After selecting it, we found out that it was barreled on to 29 which of course was a leap year. We were also joined by Father Matt, a fellow Patreon supporter and Catholic priests from northern Ohio, who blessed our bourbon for us to mean how often Can you say something like that happens, it was truly a memorable experience. If you want to join us on barrel pics, go ahead and sign up and be a part of our Patreon community@patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. If you follow us on social media, you would have seen Ryan and I at will at this past Saturday. We've got big news to share. So you're gonna have to wait to hear more about that one. Let's just say we through 11 barrels and came away with two. That's enough for the teasers for now. For today's show, we have to just talk about Peggy because we love Peggy Noe Stevens, she's an encyclopedia of great information about mini bourbon brands. She was featured back on episode 198 talking about would influence along with bourbon and food pairings with the state as the rave. But this time we get to hear her complete story. You may not know it, but she's one of the biggest influencers behind many of the great distillery experiences that you get to see on the bourbon trail as well as outside of the state to Peggy is a major player when it comes to diversity in the bourbon world. She's a pioneer because she played a big role behind the bourbon women organization that we've also featured on the show previously. Peggy is an incredibly talented person that has shaped the industry from being in front of people leading them bourbon tastings to crafting those one of a kind experiences behind the scenes. Now with that, let's hear from our good friend Joe over a barrel burger. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 4:04 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from Bell craft spirits. Every release is intentionally unique and can't be duplicated. Once it's gone. It's gone. Find out more at barrel bourbon calm. 4:16 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char. When I was a little boy. One day, a man came to our house. He wore a suit, nice leather shoes, had a suitcase. He took my father to the table and pulled out a suitcase and dropped five nice leather bound books. He flipped him open. The pages were silky smooth to the touch. And he pointed at me. And he said, Sir, your son can learn the world through Britannica encyclopedia is my father very interested in my education. But the encyclopedias I just sat there for pretty much my entire life. I don't think I ever really looked Adam. Well, I might have pulled him out for a report here and there. But the encyclopedia man always struck me as like one of the greatest salesman in the world. And today, the encyclopedia is gone. So where do we go for information these days? Well, obviously, it's the internet. But there's one source in particular that seems to drive the conversation with most people. And that's Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a site that I'm actually particularly fond of, because it crowd sources information. And a lot of the information is wrong to include people winning awards, you see a lot of political efforts there to kind of try to change people's Wikipedia pages. I have a Wikipedia page and you know, people go in there and tinker with that all the time. That's great. That is what it is. So side note, I was the most important Ascot where once upon a time someone else took that spot. But the fact is, is Wikipedia is where we go for information today as a society. Now go on there and look for Jimmy Russell, Jim Rutledge, Elmer T. Lee, Jeff Barnett, you name them any kind of prominent person and the American whiskey scene, and you won't find him. I don't know if it's the brand's fault for not trying to make sure that their iconic people are on Wikipedia pages. Or if it's simply that American whiskey hasn't really crossed over into the pop culture of the internet yet. But I think we really should change that. So if you have the abilities, get on Wikipedia today and add a master distiller go add somebody who's important to American whiskey. Because for a lot of people, if you're not on Wikipedia, you don't exist. And that's this week's above the char, hey, this idea came to me from a follower on Twitter, if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter or Instagram. That's at Fred Minnick again. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week, cheers. 7:05 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit, the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Fred recording on site at one of our guests place. So we're actually honored to be on site again together doing this. But today that I had the opportunity of meeting Peggy few times, probably probably probably a few years ago was the first time and then the last time which I don't know if that's going to go out and recording depending on how this release counter is going to go but had the opportunity to record her at the higher proof Expo doing some stuff with bourbon and food and chocolate pairings and tasting and stuff like that. And so that was kind of like my really first time really meeting her and kind of knowing some of the the depth of knowledge that that she really had to offer. But, Fred, you've got even a more personal connection to our guest today. 7:54 Yeah. So Peggy, and I go way back and if it wasn't for her, hi would never have written the book whiskey women. And we've become friends. I would say, you know, I don't have a sister. She's the closest thing to a sister I have. And she's the godmother to my son Julian. So, so we are very close. And you know, when we talk about when we talk about bourbon coming back, you know, this woman has done as much for bourbon as anybody. She basically was a founder of the Kentucky bourbon trail. I mean, it was essentially her idea. She It was her idea to create the launch pad of the Kentucky bourbon trail at the Frazier museum. And she founded a little organization called bourbon women. And oh, by the way, she was the first female master taster. worked with a lot of iconic brands and like Woodford Reserve so she's very influential in this world of bourbon. And to me personally, just one of my best friends. Well, I think 8:56 I think we put up on a pedestal and padded that ego enough, we should probably go go ahead and introduce her. So today on the show, we have Peggy know Stevens, Peggy is the master taster and also an experiential expert. So Peggy, welcome to the show. 9:09 Thank you. I was thrilled to be on this, especially with you two guests 9:13 are you know, you you made it? All right, we're 100 and whatever episodes and we finally got you, and you 9:17 waited this long for me know if that's a compliment. I don't know why. 9:22 There was all these rejections because you know, Kenny and Ryan were just, they weren't, they weren't ready for you know, right 9:28 away. Yeah, we had to me to build our build our confidence is kind 9:32 of how it works. Actually, it's very true. They're, they're very sensitive to our various 9:38 crush your ego pretty quickly, there you 9:40 go. They'll look at the text messages. And you'll know exactly like how bad we can, we can really like hate ourselves. But anyway, I want you to first talk about what is an experiential expert, I have something I'm just going to guess that it has to do something with these these tasting pairing things that you do as well as a little bit. 9:57 I mean, that's part of it. Experience ensure, and a lot of people don't understand that word fully. But it's about the experience, someone has been interactive, hands on, you know, engaging a consumer touching them emotionally. It's all of those things. So for years and years in the beverage industry and managed visitor centers, and distillery operations for the consumer. And so through all of that, I learned how to really engage the consumer, whether it be on a tour or teaching or educating or food pairing. And so when I started my company 11 years ago, I decided that that's where I would put a big part of my focus. So I work with kind of the big boy brands and I work with craft distilleries all over creating experiences for consumers on a tour path. 10:47 And so give us an idea of who you've you've actually consulted for so when somebody goes in here, they're going to be like, Oh, I know that Peggy's had something to do with this place. Right? 10:56 Well, recent, most recent, I guess is the Luxe row distillery in Bardstown if you visited there worked with the Luxe family. And the Gosh, I guess that project was almost a two year project very enjoyable. And then the American steel house for Jim Beam. That was my very first project actually, when I started my company, and then that led to the urban still house, which we helped design, and also their Global Innovation Center, which we helped design the interior and what a distributor or retail would experience, you know if they went on tour there, so that was one of them. peerless distillery comes to mind which I have a little peerless today for you. after this is over, or during whatever you want. 11:40 A quarter we'll see what happens 11:42 a little bit on the victors project. And then of course, I go beyond the borders of Kentucky. So a couple Tennessee distilleries like old forge distillery, Thunderbird distillery, and have one up and coming, then it's going to be announced, I think very shortly, 11:58 will awesome. So I guess, one of those things that if somebody is trying to open up a visitor experience, you know, it kind of seems that there's, there's almost like a formula nowadays, you know, you have a little bit of history, get a little bit of retail, but what do you kind of bring to this table that they couldn't just go and say, well, I'll just go visit four or five places write down what I can find, and then we'll go build it ourselves, we need you to justify your job. 12:26 Well, I mean, technically, it is a process because I think that you have to design a visitor center and distilleries in phases, you know, from what is your story? You know, that's where I try to keep people grounded. Where's your authenticity? What do you want the consumer to care about? I call that the takeaway. You know, if you've ever gone on vacation, and you've had a great time, and you get back in your car, your airplane and you're headed home, you say, Wow, that was just a great experience, because you always have a takeaway. And that's what I try to get all of the visitor centers that I work with, to put their anchor in the ground and say, This is what we stand for. This Is Our Story, whether it be history related, or innovation related, or family related, you know, it just has to be true to them. You know, from that, we start to what I call three dimensional eyes it how do you bring that story to life, whether it be through exhibits, whether it be through the production process, or the engagement of the tour guide. And then once we design the exhibits, we work with architects and construction companies to help fabricate it. And after that point, you know, usually we're writing the script. So we'll help with script writing the product profile how we deliver a tasting 13:40 now, when you say script writing, this is like what when you say exactly like your word as much as I can. 13:46 That's right. We we are pretty granular in our business that we even teach the tour guides, how to tell a story, how to train and customer service, how to deal with difficult people on a tour. So 13:58 how to deal with Kenny, you're saying, Yeah, he one 14:00 that actually we teach how to throw out loud now? Yeah, but it's really no more. It's really soup to nuts. And that's what makes a great experience when you thread all of the things together that I just mentioned, because that's when you can say I had a surround sound experience. And so that's what we try to capture with consumer 14:19 DNA. When you had said like, you know, anybody can just open like a visitor center. To me, that's a little bit like, I've had a lot of people come to me and say, Oh, I can write a book on write a book. You know, that sort of thing. A lot of people think they can write a book. But then when they get down to writing a book, you know, they realize they can't do it at visitor centers are actually very complicated AR and and the United Kingdom, go around to the scotch whiskey whiskey distilleries, and you'll see how, how far ahead American whiskey visitor centers are from from those facilities. And actually, you kind of cut your teeth on probably what is considered one of the hallmarks of the bourbon trail and Woodford Reserve What was I did, what were those days like? 15:03 Well, I'll tell you I look back at my Woodford days is probably one of the best times of my life. 15:09 We're talking mid 90s. 15:10 Yeah, mid 90s and 1994 to be exact, and it was a two year renovation, give or take a few months. It was the brainchild truly allows Lee Brown, who I think was probably one of the most intelligent men that I've ever worked for, and worked with. And it was when the bourbon industry was having its resurgence that you know, we were seeing a difference in how we market and the consumer going back to kind of some of the retro cocktails. So it was perfect timing to create this vision for the distillery and so the beauty of it is the team that I worked with people like Kevin Curtis, Dave Sherrick, you probably heard those names. They were right alongside with me on the production level. And we were almost like a small entrepreneurial spirit ticket that Woodford Reserve to where it is the first year we opened. We were so thrilled we had 9000 people and we thought tremendous. And now it's well over probably 150,000 16:10 like in probably two weeks now. 16:12 That's right. But I was really fortunate. Because brown Forman gave me a really great pedigree. I was able to travel around with Woodford Reserve and see other experiences you just meant mentioned the scotch whiskey trail. I went to Ireland, Mexico, one of my fondest memories and one of the best still today for me, as far as an experience goes as a visitor centers choir vo literally we literally went out in the field with a machete and they taught you how to hack with the machete the A gob a plant in your in the dirt and it's hot and sweaty and gritty. That's an experience. You know. So those are some of the the small things that we learned, you know, to try to create Woodford and then I went on eventually to manage the jack daniels visitor experience and all the brand destinations, 17:03 I got an idea for you. So tell me you can bring it to bourbon now. Now you can say okay, we got to go out to the cornfield, you got to go get six Huff's of corn and you got to come back and you've got to get all the kernels off, and I'm going to give you a pest immortal and you gotta get what happened. Yeah, you gotta chop all these up, we're going to make your bourbon in one day. And that's 17:19 experience. That's it. I mean, that's experiential. Because see, I think the consumer these days are so well educated. They want to be entertained, they're dying to be entertained. And so all they want to do is participate with you. And I think that when the industry realizes that and they allow them to play a little bit at the distillery, it's much more memorable, 17:41 too much free labor to its its tracks, 17:43 it will put all the consumers on the bottling line. 17:46 Oddly enough, they'd be like, I'd love to exactly. But another question that kind of goes, I do want to ask you one more while we're on this topic, because you had talked about scripts earlier? Do you still? Are you trying to find people that are like, let's get away from the whole? bourbon 51% corn? Like, is this the same thing? You kind of hear repetitive over and over again? Now? Do you come through and say like, it's just part of like what it is you have to cater to the everyday person that might not know this? Or do you say like, well, maybe we can create an elevated experience that we can slide that in there. But let's not focus on like the basics for a lot of these people? 18:19 Well, actually, it's a little of all of that, I believe in tears of tours. And in other words, there's something for everyone. There's kind of your bourbon one on one tour, where you do learn some of the production methods, but then give the tourists an opportunity to go to that next level, maybe more of an intermediate tour where they dig a little deeper in the production process and the history and heritage. And then for the advanced lover, and true bourbon enthusiasts, you might have private classes or cocktail classes or so I really believe in those tears. It's just a matter of convincing, you know, the distillery that one size doesn't fit all, you know, that you really have to offer because our consumers today, I think it's more demanding than ever, don't you, Fred? I 19:03 do. And they also like to call things out more so than ever, and I certainly more avenues for them to do that. And you got Yelp, you know, you've got Google reviews, and then you certainly have the podcasts and the bloggers and that's right. And one of the things that typically comes up from these, some of these smaller groups that come out, they kind of create, they create a story, and then they talk about it on on their tour. Let's take Boone County, for example. They They told 19:30 us one of my clients actually, 19:31 yeah, that's right. I knew that and they use that heritage. And you know, some people, they're just like, just talk about the whiskey, we don't care about the heritage, we don't feel like it's, you know, genuine to buy this brand or anything. So do you do you ever? How do you balance that, that effort to, you know, to bring out like a cool story. And, you know, staying with, you know, the contemporary desire to not create false back stories. 20:01 I agree. And and I think it's what we all do or try to do is we have to respect our history, because even though it might not have been history of the whiskey, it was history of their culture, and their surrounding area. And that's what Boone was, you know, they talk about their culture of their backyard. And then they tied in, you know, to the whiskey, and so, respecting the history, but then also have any appreciation for the modern day and innovation. You know, where are we going today? So I think it's what I call a balance, kind of a juxtaposition between between past and present. And that's what you have to bring together. 20:37 Okay, we see a lot of these brands that, you know, talk about, like my grand Pappy carried the yeast back on this toes from the Atlantic. And that's not balanced. You know, that's, that's, that's too far. And so like, if you're, if you're in the boardrooms, and you're saying, guys, you can't do that, then God bless you. That's right. You know, because we, we've gotten tired of that over the years, and we still see it, but it's not as prevalent as it was, I'd say 10 years ago. 21:04 And I think because of all the craft distilleries, you know that I work with and for, I try so hard to say it's okay, if you're sourcing whiskey, just say so, you know, tell them where you're getting it, why you chose the barrel stock that you did, how long it's going to be before your product comes out. Because I think authenticity is really important. And that's another reason why I think the tourists don't want to go to distillery after distillery and say, 51% corn, because everybody's going to say the same thing. And it's just dinner in a movie. 21:37 Let's jump on that authenticity thing for sure. Get some of that. Some just hit me, Kenny. You know, we're in this. We're in this day and age where anybody can come in and say they're an expert, a bourbon. You actually became a master taster at Brown Forman. Explain to us what the difference between someone coming up the ranks in the industry and earning that title and and then someone just taking it? 22:07 Sure. Well, I think that in our industry, what so many people don't understand is that we didn't have a formal definition of for example, if you wanted to be a CMO, yea, then you do all the credentials associated with that you take all the tests and you become a summer. Yeah. You know, in our industry, it's kind of truly up to each and every distillery to decide titles of vocabulary credentials, and master distiller is very different than master taster. Master taster is very different than master blender. But each distillery is going to set the guidelines and training, you know, to advance an employee to become in that position. So again, I think I was in the right place at the right time. Lincoln Henderson was the master distiller at Woodford at the time. And I believe it was about 2001, where the general manager of Woodford Lincoln, they thought I had a really good palate, I kind of have a bit of a culinary background. So I think in food terms, and I think that helps so much and identifying and descriptive whiskey. So I had written the tour understood production, I have a bit of a science mind. So they asked me if I would formally trained with him to become a master taster at the time and my naivete. I think I didn't realize that there were no women master tasters in the industry, if you can believe it. So of course I was eager, you know, to learn love doing tastings really respected Lincoln, in his knowledge and years of experience. So we would do you know, sensory training, we would you know, drill barrels and, you know, pulled from it, and he would teach me the different aspects of that, I had to do quite a quite a few things in the production area. And it's kind of like the whiskey, you know, you're not ready till the master distiller says you're ready. And after a certain period of time, that's when they gave me my certificate. You know, it was putting the newspaper and that's when I first found out when it hit the newspaper, it hit the AP. Oh, wow. And went across. And it is big news, that a woman has become a master taster. In a male predominant, you know, predominant world. And the that's when it hit me that this was really something more special than I ever dreamed than ever thought. And I'm happy to say now there's many master tasters, Master distillers master blenders that are female, I just happened to be, I think, in the right place at the right time that that happened. 24:37 Share with us the 24:40 when that news broke the DJ who called you? 24:45 Well, when I mentioned AP, right, hit the AP, so 120 newspapers it hit. And of course, there was so much interest from radio stations, TV stations. And it was something I wasn't, I don't think I was quite mentally ready for in the fact that there was a particular radio station kind of a shock jock that wanted me to come and do a series or not a series but an interview rather. And they were kind of getting a kick out of the whole piece of the newspaper article that said, she doesn't swallow. You know, she swirls and spits. And they kind of wanted to play on that a little bit. And I remember that, that's when it hit me that I was going to be different. I was not going to go along, just get go along to get along. And I said no to the interview. Because I didn't think that that was going to ever be my persona. And that's not what I wanted to be known for. I wasn't going to joke along with it. I wanted women to be taken seriously. And in a way like men would be, you know, and I don't think there'd be too many radio stations that would ask a man to do that. So I said no to the interview. And, you know, it wasn't very favorably received. But so Obama stood by my values on that. 26:06 Do you think we're better today than we were? From a media perspective? 26:12 I think not really, from a media perspective you ask? So I don't think so. But I guess I want to expand that not just to whiskey. I think on a media level, there are plenty of reality TV shows that, you know, try to get the worst of you the angle to make you not look great. I think there are plenty, you know, of Facebook video, you know, you see this all the time in social media that someone's captured at a certain moment, YouTube video, all of those things. And so No, I don't think media is better about it. But it goes beyond whiskey. 26:54 Yeah. What about the whiskey industry? Is it obviously we've seen growth of diversity. But you still, I still get the sense from from from women, that it's not where they want it to be. In terms of the diversity, 27:12 right, I think we are on a great trajectory right now, I think there's never been a better time for women to be in our industry. The amount of executives and vice presidents CMOS presidents of the different distillery or spirits companies, it's really enlightening, and I'm so glad to see it. So there I think putting women in better positions has certainly improved. Look at the production side of things, we have more master distillers that are women. All of that's wonderful. My question, I think, to the industry is really, once you're out in the field, and when I say out in the field, as far as sales representatives go that are female, you know, marketing representatives who do kind of the day to day job of beating the streets and going to bars and restaurants and it's more of how are they treated these days? You know, that's that's the question mark for me. But I know, you know, internally, it has definitely improved as far as positions go. 28:15 Yeah, I can kind of see that. I can kind of see what you're saying. Because you're still going in to even probably the more male dominated culture of liquor store owners and retailers and bars and stuff that yeah, these people have to go and they have to sell their product. I have to probably put up with some shit every once in a while to I'm sure that's probably not far from the case of what you're what you're what you're hinting at here. You know, one thing I kind of rewind a little bit about that you had talked about going up and becoming the master taster with inside of just Woodford or brown Forman in general what was 28:48 Woodford Reserve decision with Woodford Reserve specifically, 28:51 kind of talk about what those that individual process means are like how was how was Wes? Like, your your Miyagi, if you will? How does he mean like in Lincoln? You mean like it? Oh, sorry. Sorry. How was Lincoln? I'm sorry, I apologize. How was Lincoln kind of like your Miyagi here and your Daniel son, if you will. So the wax on wax off sort of scenario, 29:10 he got so caught up on that scenario, that Miyagi? I know, I forgot. 29:16 It was like, it's like from The Karate Kid, you know, you gotta have you know, and you're maybe maybe a Yoda, if you will. Yeah. 29:24 Well, again, Lincoln to me was was so refreshing every time he came to Woodford Reserve because he wanted to be as much a part of it as anybody who worked there. And he was the master distiller, of course, but you know, had to go back and forth to Louisville, he traveled around the world, you know, worked a lot in Japan, etc. And every time he came in, we would have great conversation, he was a foodie. So we always had that culinary tag that we appreciate a good food, good whiskey. And I have to say he was so well liked by the tour guides, and in the management, because he always had just as calm demeanor. And the reason why I tell you all that is because I think that really helped me when I was learning because he took the time to explain things, the very first time that we met formally to train, this was my first lesson, he had a box of toothpicks, and a glass of water. And then he had all these empty glasses, and I thought, oh, we're just going to taste a lot. And he, as he was talking, he was breaking up the toothpicks and putting them in water. And it's the most bizarre thing I'd ever seen. And I just didn't understand it. And he goes, he goes, I'm gonna let this sit for a minute, okay. And I said, Sure, you know, go ahead, no problem. And then he came back to it about, you know, 10 minutes later, and he goes, smell this playing glass of water. I noticed it. And then he goes, nose, nose, the one with the the toothpicks in it, and I noticed and he goes, do you see the difference would can make? And it was just this? Was he trying to mess with 30:51 me as he means? Well, 30:52 I mean, it was just, it was just his way of teaching and Little things like holding a Glencairn glass, you know, in the small disk that goes on top to keep the aroma, and he would teach me how to move it back and forth, so that I could look, you know, like an expert, you know, tasting it and turn it off. And then putting it back on very quickly 31:14 reminds me of like somebody at the poker table, they're just roll the chip in their in their hands or something. But 31:18 but exactly, that's exactly where the basic so I guess what I'm saying is, I really honored the fact that he brought me to the basics. And then little by little, you know, we advanced her way into the distillery where I was drilling barrels and pulling samples and tasting. And so it was it was really a progression, I guess, is the best way to answer that question. And, again, it wasn't ready till he said, she's ready to conduct the tastings and send around and do tastings. 31:46 What are you still doing today? In regards of a master taster role? Are you actually helping with other distilleries in this sort of thing like trying to dial it in of what they should be releasing or what their barrel should be at? 31:57 I absolutely do several different levels for some spirits judge for the American distilling Institute. So every year, I go and taste product, you know, from craft distillers and rate it and sometimes identify if it's, you know, has been in the barrel too long or still was dirty, or the grains were mold, you know, so we have to give a lot of feedback. And that's kind of tricky. 32:20 That is, that is tricky. I gotta say that that job is that particular competition and that style of competition. God bless you don't do that running. 32:32 But I also think before we get too far from there, I also want you to kind of explain when you just said, How can you tell if something if the if there's something moldy in the still like, how can you How can you get that from the distillate, or I think everybody knows that it hasn't been in the barrel long enough, 32:48 it's a taste. For example, if this still isn't clean, you know, really clean, I can taste kind of wet corn husk that tastes kind of moldy. To me, there's a rubbery taste, you know, and that's, that means something else. So it's all in what you have memorized in your sensory, you know, as a good or not so great taste. And that helps guide me, any anybody who is interested in knowing how to taste, I try to break it down and say it's really pretty easy. It's about food memory, if you know food flavors, you know, like what burnt tastes like? Or what real great savory, juicy steak tastes like, you know, you can equate food flavors to whiskey tasting. And so the American distilling Institute, which we have tons of fun, you know, we have about 70 judges, I think now that come. So that's one area and then for my clients, I do tasting profile. So if it's a new product, I will actually dissect the flavors and come up with the vocabulary to describe it. And then teach the tour guides, you know how to deliver tasting. So that's a job that I do. And then of course, doing food programs, food and bourbon programs, food and spirits programs. food pairings are kind of my specialty. And that's probably what I enjoy the most. When I'm doing tastings. 34:15 Well, there's one other thing that she applies for tastings. Joe went out, tell me she writes for bourbon plus, yeah, well, 34:21 how can I possibly get 34:23 she does tasting notes for the magazine? Yes, 34:26 I do tasting notes for the magazine and do ratings at times when I'm asked but I really have enjoyed that. Fred's taken a very different way of approaching descriptions of food pairings and bourbon pairings. And so I've, I have really latched on to that, because that's, that's my joy. That's what I really enjoy is describing flavors and whiskey. 34:49 So talk about a typical thing that when you are trying to do a food and a whiskey pairing, or food and bourbon pairing, I mean, is it like, okay, on your left, we've got shrimp and grits next goes well with bullet or we've got this and that, but kind of kind of just walk through what's around on a plate here and how you would share? 35:06 Well, the first thing that I tried to have people do is just dissect the whiskey flavors in general. Because if you don't know what you're dealing with, there's no way you could possibly decide on what food that it's going to go with. And then I created something a long time ago called balance, counterbalance, and explosion. And the balance side is simply when you take the whiskey and you taste a particular flavor of the whiskey that's, you know, pretty predominant. And then you match that flavor. Let's say it's Apple, you match that flavor to the food and so it let's say it's Apple, you know, so a slice of Apple, you taste apple in the bourbon. So it's a balance nothing's overshadowing anything. Then counterbalance is when you take a food flavor or descriptor from the whiskey and you try to do something completely opposite. Very similar to if you were drinking a Riesling wine and eating occasion pecan. You know the reasoning is so sugary sweet that it takes over the spice of the Cajun pecan kind of dousing it. You can do the same with bourbon, with really heavy caramel notes and vanilla notes. I could take an Asian dish and have my bourbon with Asian food because it's actually going to that caramels going to wrap around that spice and it's lovely. And then a explosion is when I want to really do surround sound tasting and I might take a great for example, you know I've got a bottle of peerless here I'm I take a great chocolate note out of peerless rye, and then I'll have a really chocolatey, you know, truffle or majestic to go with it because it's almost like too much of a good thing. You know, you're trying to create a flavor that you can't even believe it's taken over your mouth. And that's explosion. 36:54 Fred, did you know that you can pair bourbon with egg rolls? Because apparently you can. 36:59 The only thing I have now I've been able to successfully pair bourbon with has been like fishier styles of sushi. Like I compare bourbon really well with salmon but like, like, let's say a spicy tuna roll. I've not been successful and fine. I've been able to pair a scotch with that, but not a spicy 37:19 scotch is so easy with seafood because it 37:21 really is. Yeah, but there's not. When it when it comes to some of those more flashy or tunas. When you hear those spices, they're hard to pair to. 37:33 I mean, most of our listeners, they would say well of course you want to go at Jefferson's ocean and because apparently it's supposed to bring in this briny, salty taste to it what would what would be your response to that? 37:43 Me? Well, I or or Yeah, I think Jefferson's ocean is 37:50 sometimes it has brightness to it. Sometimes it doesn't. I don't always get it. 37:54 Well, I remember I was very skeptical. The first time I heard you know valve and putting it on the sea, all of this and I thought you know what, I'm going to taste this thing. And surprisingly, salt is not a descriptor that I use ever when I'm doing whiskey profiles. And I will tell you, I really do get a little bit of that sea salt taste 38:16 as I did in the later batches, I it's been inconsistent for me. 38:20 So what I try to do if I'm if I'm pairing with Jefferson's is not to overdo the salt. You know not to have a real savory dish to pair it with because I think it can overtake 38:34 so go ahead. I you know, we're I don't want to get too caught up in all the tasting side of things because we really want to talk about you know, bourbon women. 38:49 Do you love bourbon? How about festivals? Of course you do. So join bourbon pursuit in Frankfort, Kentucky on August 24. For bourbon on the banks. It's the country wells premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. You will get to taste from over 60 different bourbon spirits, wine and beer vendors plus 20 food vendors all happening with live music. Learn more about bourbon from the master distillers themselves that you've heard on the show and enjoy food from award winning chefs. The $65 ticket price covers everything. Don't wait and get yours at bourbon on the banks.org and through June 30. You can get your discounted ticket offer two tickets for the low price of $110. When using the code b o b 2019. during checkout at bourbon on the banks.org there are more craft distilleries popping up around the country now more than ever before. So how do you find out the best stories and the best flavors? Rock house whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club and they're on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in 40 states and rack houses June box they're featuring a distillery that claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey rack house whiskey club is shipping out two bottles from there, including its beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye, both of which were finished in barrels that were once used to mature America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged stout. And if you're a beer guy like me, you would know that's New Holland dragon milk, go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out. And try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 40:42 I really want to talk about you know, bourbon women you you left. You left Woodford Reserve 90s or 2000. 40:52 I left I left the company 40:55 in 2008 and started my company in 2008. Okay. And, you know, your company was a consulting company you've you've been a you know, personal consultant. Yes. image consultant. By the way, She's the reason why I have a beard. 41:14 I told you I've been trying I've been trying with 41:16 Fred This is this when he was baby face when he had the goatee and you're like, you gotta you gotta grow it out some more. Or is it actually 41:21 it was it started with the goatee was the other It started with a goatee. And I said fill it in and fill it in. But yeah, that's one of I am an Image and Etiquette expert. And, and believe it or not, that's come in very handy because I work in the hospitality industry. And so it's about the look and feel of your employees and professionals. So Fred's 41:43 con wrote a book on it. 41:45 I wrote a book called professional presence. And I teach on that still, you know, too many organizations and corporations, but 41:53 when she's with bourbon groups, she just throws it all out the window. 41:56 Do I Do I dress down? No, I'm just so last thing is I 42:03 usually wear a coat and tie to see me today. 42:05 I did not Yeah, but I also usually wouldn't know which one of the nine spoons I'm supposed to use that are in front of me sometimes at a nice dinner as well. 42:12 Well, and you know, it's funny that you say that because that's where the bourbon industry is just been great because it's so approachable. And even though I'm an etiquette expert, and I had a woman at bourbon and beyond from California came up and she goes, Peggy, you're the Emily post of bourbon. And I kind of got a kick out of that, because I wasn't trying to take that she was no, you're really teaching us. You know how to do things and use things. But one thing lesson I've learned from all these master distillers who I really admire is to make it approachable, you know, teaching people what they can do and how to enjoy it, but not making it intimidating for them to enjoy it. Because we don't want to make it untouchable. 42:51 Scott's dictating 42:54 to listen, and he says his way or the highway. 42:57 So the inspiration for bourbon women? Yes. What was that? 43:01 Well, I think bourbon women, for me personally, my inspiration was when I was still working for Woodford, because I would travel around the world. And when I would conduct tastings, nine times out of 10 predominantly male, which was fine that there'd always be like a little trickle of women in the back. And they would only come up to me, after the tasting was over to ask questions, you know, or ask what I do for a living or, or expand a little bit more on my career. And I always found that very odd that they wouldn't raise their hand when a lot of the men would be flooding me with questions, you know, during the seminar. And then I attended a women's weekend and Kiawah Island. And again, this is back in the 90s, early 2000s. And it was a women's weekend not about whiskey. It was just a women's weekend where the hotel was doing different things, excursions etc, shopping, the normal thing, and they asked me to come in and do a bourbon tasting. And when I got there said how many women It was probably 100 women in this room. How many women enjoy bourbon? No one raised their hand. Nobody, no. Time is over. But then I said, Well, how many of you drink margaritas? They all raise their hand? Oh, yeah. Now we're talking Now we're talking. And I said, I'm going to teach you something now that I think you'll appreciate. You know, when you have a shot of tequila in front of you, you're probably less likely to drink that than you are to have a margarita. I said so we're going to start slow and I'm gonna teach you how to taste bourbon, and what cocktails you can put in bourbon. And then maybe you'll decide, you know, the Bourbons okay for you. And by the end of the night we were singing New York, New York and doing the cancan. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was wildly successful. The women had son, they loved it. And so I think that was part of my inspiration. Also, another event that I did, when I was at Woodford, I have a picture of it actually with Lincoln. We did a women's group, cigar and shopping night. And women came from all over Kentucky to attended Lincoln gave the tasting. We had a cigar aficionado there, you know, showing you how to smoke a cigar and then we shopped and it was wildly successful. So in marketing, because I was in marketing for so long, we'd be waving the flag saying there are all kinds of women out there that want to be part of our franchise, but marketing dollars or marketing dollars, and the demographic skewed always to the mail. And it was just really never took off. So when I started my own company, and there's a long way of explaining it, but when I started my own company, I said I'm gonna start my own damn thing. And so with bourbon women, I did focus groups across Kentucky, and I grabbed some really great friends and then in over Manhattan's, we said, you know, let's, let's test the market. Let's test these women. Let's see if they'd be enthusiastic about creating a platform a conversation. So we did the focus groups, I got all my research together, and I went to go see the one man in this industry who would tell me the truth. And that was Bill Samuels, and I sat down with Bill Samuels, and I said, Bill, I have an idea. And he was always great about listening to me, he truly was, even though I worked for Woodford for years, I was in my own company. He didn't have time, you know, to talk to people like me. But I sat and I showed him all the things that we did with focus groups, and he was like, You know what, I think you've got something here. He was the one I used the word earlier conversation. He was the one that said, Peggy, you're starting a conversation. That's what you gotta do, you're gonna start a conversation with these women. So that gave me all the power I needed to know that it must be something there. So we did an inaugural event at the governor's mansion. Fred was in attendance and you should tell that story actually. 46:53 Speech 46:53 Well, when when we gave the speech and in the catalysts for wisdom women. Okay, so 47:00 yeah. So when she, when she had came up with this, this idea to do bourbon women, she one of the things that she would talk about was like women were some of the early distillers and they were always a part of the industry. And kinda you know, how it is when, you know, kind of my calling card, especially at that time, was to find, you know, kind of call people out a little bit. And I was looking into that. It's like, when I saw that when she told me that all right, I'd saw it. I said, That's not true. You know that, you know, no one's ever written about this. There's never been any, any ads. Like I was like, surely if there's this is true, then brands would be all over you, we'd have all kinds of brands named after women. And I started looking at she was right. And not only was he right, I found women that the brands didn't even know about. And so I said, not only is this awesome, I have a book here. And so that was kind of the catalyst for what became whiskey women. And really at that book more than anything propelled my career to where I am now. But it all We joking, I 48:06 just want to say I haven't made a dime off that book. I don't have commission I don't have I don't have title. I don't have anything. movie rights. I don't have anything maybe 48:16 maybe Oscar Oh, like playing the NBA or something. 48:20 Oscars Fred son, by the way, it's my godmother. It's probably gonna be five, six. 48:24 Yeah. Likely, let's see can dribble Really? 48:26 Yeah. Well, the anomaly. 48:29 Beauty of that whole story, though, is that Fred was unlocking something that he couldn't believe no one had. And so I was unlocking something that I knew needed to be unlocked. Yeah. 48:40 And no, that was in that moment, that that's like, you know, you look back on life. And you know, there's probably a dozen moments where you're like, that will always stand out. And that was one of them. And to be honest with you, if you did not run with that, you know, I because now what Berber women was the first but now they're probably we 30 women centric whiskey groups. Sure. 49:03 National. Absolutely. 49:05 And it started with you. 49:07 Thank you. I appreciate that. We're really proud of the fact we were the first female consumer group to talk to the industry. And now we're in six cities formally. We have thousands of women across the United States that attend we've done over 200 events, if you can believe. And then we have our annual what we call sip podium, si p symposium 200. Women came in from 23 states this year to Kentucky to go on excursions, learn about whiskey, bourbon, the culture and heritage that surrounds our great state. And it's been I don't know how else to say it. It's more than networking. It's more than educating, which is what we stand about. But it's empowering. And these women come together from all over they've never met each other and the camaraderie and that's why I always say, bourbon brings us together. Yeah, it's a universal welcome. And bourbon women's not a demographic. We're a psychographic. You know, it's these women are love soft adventure. They're curious. They have bravado, confidence, a lot of them are really just professional women who want to have a little bit of an escape, you know, from the normal business life. It's been probably I would say one of the best things I've ever done in my career. 50:26 One of the things to Kenny that she's that they're doing is that they are getting data from their, from their members and what they released some data recently about where they like to go well, on the bourbon trail, right. And that was stunning to me. He was like, 50:43 Yeah, what do you think about that? I was 50:45 shocked. It was it will. So it was Maker's Mark and Buffalo Trace, they were kind of neck and neck. Those are the two that I always recommend. But then after that was like, who wasn't on there that shocked me like we didn't see us. That's a Weller. You know, we do didn't really see any of the craft brands. Woodford had a small pie, small piece of the pie. It was it was very stunning to me, like what was appealing to bourbon women. From a tourist perspective? Well, 51:12 I'm glad you brought that up. Because one of the things we do do is pride ourselves on some of our research. And what we're trying to do is kind of debunk the myth to the industry. This is part of our mission that you have to pink, a whiskey for a woman to like it. And so what we found universally, whenever we do tastings with the women, or whenever we're at an event, and we're doing surveys or blind tastings, they undoubtedly choose the spicier, more robust, and higher proof bourbon is a 51:45 memory serves. Booker's almost always wins these things. Yes, 51:49 yes. And also, heaven Hill did one more the Elijah Craig, barrel strength, oneness. So that's part that's really that's information that helps the industry because again, you don't have to dumb it down for women. They like it like you like it. 52:05 So as long as Jim Beam and Heaven, Hell are listening, you figured out a new target for these brands, you know, 52:09 our cohorts coming 52:11 along? We're seeing more, 52:14 or any our co host Ryan, you know, he like he's not here, but he he secretly likes flavored whiskey. So I don't think he would want the brands to listen to that part. 52:25 The other question I kind of wanted to roll with this as well is, you know, we've talked to groups about how they start. bourbon societies and stuff like that talk about what the the growth was here. And was it? Was it small growth at first, did you plateau? In the past six months? Have you seen a hockey stick? Kind of what did this look for 52:47 bourbon women? Yes, I would say we shot off like a rocket when we first began. And then just like when you're selling whiskey, it's easy to get into distribution. But then you need pull through or retention, you know, you need that second order. And because we were in Kentucky, I mean, it shot up. But until we went outside the borders of Kentucky we plateaued a little bit. And then once Indianapolis came on, you know, Tennessee, DC, Chicago, in these other cities wanted to be part of this. And that was the unexpected. I never designed bourbon women to be something that we make $1 off of. I never designed bourbon women to really be a national organization. It was it really wasn't there for me at that time. The women spoke to us, the women demanded it. And we listened. And we we stepped up and we said, okay, we're going beyond the borders of Kentucky. And that's when we really took off. 53:48 How are you marketing it nowadays? 53:51 Well, nowadays, of course, largely through the internet, largely through our website, invitations. We have branch ambassadors in each of those cities that I mentioned that are creating events for women and excursions that they can go on. So that's a big piece of it 54:06 are using like meetup com or something. 54:08 We we do event bright we do. You know, it might be what we call meet needs, which are just real simple meet at a bar and have some cocktails together just to enjoy camaraderie. Or it might be a really formal event. You know, 54:21 you said camaraderie, they're looking to make new friends in a new city. So So kind of what is that? What is that profile nationality is 54:28 the the freshest information I have is just us coming off a symposium in August. And it really took me back because the women I were meeting, they'd been to the last five symposiums and they keep coming back and coming back. But this time, for example, we had a woman that brought her five nieces, you know, all female nieces that were 21. And over. And they made an excursion of it. You know, there was an aunt, or I'm sorry, a mother, who brought her her mother and grandmother to this event. We have a mother that it brings the daughter who just turned 21 we have women's weekends, where a bunch of girlfriends are getting together, and they want to go away. And we're the tickets. So we're seeing all kinds single married, Grandma, you know, young 21, who just got her her, you know, driver's licenses says she can drink now. So all of those things, all of those things, it's a combination. 55:24 So it was there. Is there one that kind of fits more the bill than the other? Or is it just 55:29 say that, but we're all across the board. We are all across the board in age, we're all across the board. geographically. We're all across the board from mother, grandmother daughter. And, and I love it. I think that's that to me, said, this is how women come together. 55:48 Are you trying to do something that's that's unique as well just for just for an all female audience versus something that would just be for a general bourbon meetup? 55:56 Well, what's so interesting to me is more and more we're seeing and more men come to our events, because they think we do very buttoned up events and a very deep in the education, which is part of what we do, and we're proud of. So we're seeing more and more men, so men can come to it. But as far as the camaraderie of the women who are coming, it's the it's what they want it they get as much as they want, how they want it. 56:24 So I kind of want also rewind a little bit to some of the had some questions that were lined up from some of our listeners about distillery experiences and stuff like that some things that that they kind of wanted to know. Sure. And in one of them was kind of thinking about, what do you really feel that visitors are looking to get away from an experience there? Like you mentioned earlier, that they want to come away with some some vivid memory? Like, what, what else? Is there something that is? Maybe it's physical, maybe it is intangible? What else do you think is missing there? 56:57 Well, I you know, I've been in hospitality for 30 years. And when you really boil down hospitality, it all goes back to human needs. You know, everyone wants to be heard or listen to or feel appreciated or feel special. Those are human needs. And so to your question, you know, I think aside from saying I had a great experience, when they meet a tour guide that treated them a little bit differently. That's a great memory, 57:25 or they Eddie Johnson's the best ready 57:26 Johnson is magic. I mean, he's magic. That's what he does. So well, I don't care what level of person he meets, where they're from, what they look like Freddy Johnson's gonna make you feel like you're the only person in the world? 57:41 Do you think he could probably just go out and start consulting? 57:44 I don't think you can. I don't think he can teach what he has. 57:48 It's really an art. Yeah, it really is as much as we do customer service training at different distilleries, and it's an art. And I can almost tell the people who have it or don't after doing it this long, but to me, it's about human need, and making you feel like you're the only person in the room. And that's really what so many of our master distillers have done over there like Jim or Jimmy Russell, to me, I call him the gentleman distiller. He was always in Fred and I just did bourbon and beyond, you're on stage with us for the Jimmy Russell tribute. And that's what I quoted was, he had that magic about him, that there'd be 1000 people in the room. But he was only about you at that moment. So when you ask that question, what's the consumer looking for? What's the tourists looking for? They're looking for a special moment where they were recognized, or they had fun with you and being part of somebody's memory, their entire memory of all the vacations they've gone on? You know, that's a real honor. So that's my philosophy of hospitality is to never forget your part as you're part of a family's memory for the rest of their life. 58:55 I think that's accurate for probably 99.9% of them. But then there's the crowd the old bourbon geeks, 59:03 yeah, 59:04 there are. They're out there. What are you? How do you? How do you prepare your staffs for, for the guy who knows everything and won't hear it otherwise? 59:14 Well, the only way that you can deal with what I call a difficult person, and I see the sometimes in the tastings, I do, I'm sure you do. And you do. There's always one in the crowd. 59:26 There, they're always old ladies, for me, like I always have an old lady, lady bourbon has to be from Kentucky. 59:37 Well, first of all, my advice always to defuse the situation. Because usually when you have a difficult person, they love being in the spotlight. And they want to draw attention to themselves. So you have to kind of diffuse that person, like pull them aside and say, oh, let's have this conversation over here and get them away from the crowd. You know, or Oh, great question. Do you mind if when we're on break, you know, we we asked, we all answer that in just a little bit. Because when you defuse it and pull it away and kind of steal the thunder, it definitely helps. definitely helps. 1:00:09 One thing I don't think we did touch on that we need to before we wrap it up is about the the kind of how you pioneered the the bourbon trail as well. Oh, okay. Right. Yes, we definitely need to kind of talk about that be what the original process was the idea? Who did you say something to I heard it first, it was just a brochure like, 1:00:29 Oh, it was definitely just a brochure. But what's really a funny story, and it was more out of I think, trying to do our job, then it was great marketing, creative minds. There were two women in the industry. That one worked at Maker's Mark door, our, let's see, Don anally. And then Doris Calhoun worked at Jim Beam. And we were all visitors, center directors, I was at Woodford, and we were friends because and that's a great thing about our industry to even though we were competitors, we were also friends, we really enjoyed each other's company, we would travel to tourism shows, and we would drink each other's bourbon, you know, and taste each other's bourbon, and we just had fun together. But we were all in the same boat, we had to bring people to the visitor center. And so we start talking about it. And we said, you know, people are going to see you and they're going to see you and they're going to see me wonder if we did some kind of, you know, cross marketing, that these visitors could come to all of our facility and we mark it all together, you know, in a way that it's kind of a road trip. So that being said, So Daniel, who I don't know if you know that name or not Katie, he was the Eric Gregory of Katie a at the time. And we took it to him and said, Hey, why don't we bring all the distilleries together and put it in a brochure and market it so that, you know people have a choice to go everywhere. And maybe we'd save some money on marketing, and maybe we would get more traffic. And so over a million stops later, as reported, this past year, a million over a million stops on the on the bourbon trail. And I'm very, very proud of that. And Eric Gregory, in my opinion, when he came on board really brought the bourbon trail to life, and put it in a marketing, highlight and importance and priority. So that our infrastructure that all of our distilleries are investing in would pay off. And it's worked. And it's worked. So yeah, so I can't take credit, there was me that it was a small team of women. 1:02:33 How cool is that to say like, you were part of the team that spearheaded the bourbon trail, what is now probably the the most successful tourist 1:02:42 strategy in Kentucky. 1:02:44 Oh, easily. I mean, it's it goes hand in hand with with wine country. Yeah. 1:02:49 And again, I will say, I have not gotten a commission, or anything. we debated back to something's happening here. We'll get you a plaque. Oh, no, thanks, Kevin. I'm 1:03:00 getting something out of these visitor experiences. 1:03:04 People should have taken a penny from every transaction at every distillery and then you would be retired forever. It was, you know, 1:03:09 really, at the end of the day, when I think of the industry and how great it's been to me and the legacy that I want to leave. You know, these are the types of stories that I hope people will say, you know, and I hope I'm not finished. I think there's more to come. I got more 1:03:25 in me where we're starting to see the next wave of Peggy know, Stevens, and that's the writer. She's she wrote me some time ago and said, I'm going to be your best rider before it's all over. And competitive. I said, I said, All right. And her stories have been fantastic. Well, fantastic. 1:03:47 I appreciate that. I do have one more question about this bourbon trail map. How many were there on there when the first one was released? I believe seven. 1:03:54 And what do we have now? 23. Plus, 1:03:57 was Buffalo Trace on 1:03:59 he was called ancient age. Also agent at Buffalo Trace was on there. They were called ancient age 1:

LIVE from the WCPT Conference in Geneva, Switzerland, I welcome Daniel Board on the show to discuss torture-survivors’ experiences of healthcare services for pain.  Daniel Board is a Specialist Pain Physiotherapist working in a pain management clinic at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London, UK. Clinically, he helps people with a variety of persistent pain conditions and has a special interest in refugee healthcare. In this episode, we discuss: -Torture-survivors' experiences of healthcare services for pain -The importance of the patient-clinician relationship and communication skills -How to avoid burnout when servicing this patient population -And so much more!   Resources: Daniel Board Twitter Chelsea and Westminster Hospital     For more information on Daniel: Daniel Board is a Specialist Pain Physiotherapist working in a pain management clinic at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London, UK. Clinically, he helps people with a variety of persistent pain conditions and has a special interest in refugee healthcare. Daniel is also an early career researcher and recently conducted a qualitative study investigating torture-survivors’ experiences of healthcare services for pain.   Read the full transcript below: Karen Litzy:                   00:01                Hey everybody, I am coming to you live from WCPT in Geneva, Switzerland. And I have the pleasure today of interviewing Daniel Board. Daniel's a physio therapist in the United Kingdom and he specializes in persistent pain. So Daniel, welcome to the podcast. And today you had a really interesting platform. So I want you to kind of give the listeners a little insight into what your platform was, because like I said, you are specializing in persistent pain, but you really have a very unique perspective. Daniel Board:                00:35                Yeah. So my background is in working with people with persistent pain problems. And part of that is that I'm lucky enough to work in a specialist clinic for torture survivors at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in the UK. The platform presentation I did today was presenting the findings of a research study that we did last year, looking at the experience of persistent pain in survivors of torture survivors are kind of an underrecognized group. They have a variety of psychological, physical, and social, kind of consequences and burden as a result of torture. For example, persistent pain rates succeed. 80% inspires of torture. Rates of PTSD and depression exceed 30%. Issues aren't just standalone. Many certainly the torture survivors that we encounter are living in a country of excile and there are also lots of problems associated with that, such as seeking asylum, lack of social support, and also obviously the language barriers, and kind of what they're not necessarily knowing what their rights are with regard to accessing services within the UK. So that's the population. Karen Litzy:                   01:49                And what did your study specifically look at that you presented today? Daniel Board:                01:54                So what we looked at from the evidence base is very limited. There was a Cochrane review last year that looked at interventions for managing pain in torture survivors and they find that there was no evidence to refute or support any intervention currently for managing persistent pain. Clinically, we see, as I said, quite a complex population and typically outcomes from treatment aren't great. We also find it quite difficult to engage them within our services. We have high sort of failed attendance rates and that really affects their ability to access and benefit from healthcare. So the study that we looked at or the study that we did was a study looking at what's torture survivors experiences of pain services in the UK is like so often, torture survivors that generally the first place they'd go to is that GP with a pain problem. Daniel Board:                02:48                But they would also, the participants in our study, had seen GPs, they'd seen physiotherapist, pharmacist, they'd been referred to trauma orthopedics, cardiology, rheumatology, and that in itself posed a number of issues. So one of the first things we find was actually there was a big confusion over or a lot of confusion from the survivors of torture perspective over what their diagnosis was. So because they'd seen lots of different health care professionals, they're often confused. So for example, one of the quotes in our study was, ‘One says you have fibromyalgia, one said you had PTSD and another one said a slipped disc.’ So all of these things, they don't necessarily mean a lot to the patient and it can often leave them confused. So it was the first thing that we found. Karen Litzy:                   03:34                And with the finding like that and like the confusion of the patient, is that a reason that may be why they're not seeking out physical therapy or maybe why they drop off? Daniel Board:                03:46                I think to be honest, I think there's a number of reasons why they might not engage very well. I think there's a couple of issues with diagnosis and let's maybe start with that. One of the things we noticed in the study was a really overly biomedical approach to diagnosing and treating pain, which isn't isolated to torture survivors. It's widespread, but certainly with this group that was relevant. So participants receiving diagnoses like degenerative disc disease or disc derangement. These were things that were noted in our study. And even if they didn't fit necessarily with the participants picture of pain, so they might have had widespread pain or pain that didn't fit that specific diagnoses. That does a couple of things. First of all, providing a diagnosis, which doesn't necessarily fit the clinical picture. Daniel Board:                04:38                It takes away, I think, ownership of being able to do anything about it. So by saying you've got disk to arrangement that's going to instill fear, that's going to take away any kind of ability that they might perceive they have to change that situation. So that was one of the things with diagnosis. The other important thing we find was that there was a distinct lack of recognition of torture experience when diagnosing pain. So if torture was recognized often it was done. So the word that came up quite a lot in the study was that participants had a biopsychosocial overlay, which in itself is a pretty ambiguous term. And there was a real lack of recognition of the affective and cognitive components of a pain experience and how torture experience might influence that within a pain experience. So I think that would affect how do they engage with services because I think it takes away some of the ownership by providing that kind of diagnosis. Daniel Board:                05:31                I think the other thing is that it's not as simple as there's not one thing that is the problem with us engaging this population. Rates of PTSD and depression are very high our participants said that they struggled to engage with services often because they either lacked motivation to get to the hospital or they were in too much pain to complete that physiotherapy exercises, for example. So those were a couple of things. And I think there's also one of the things that we find one of the problems that we think then as a finding from the study was that there seems to be not necessarily a dualistic on the part of the clinicians. I think that's probably a little bit outdated given what we know about current pain understandings. Daniel Board:                06:18                But I think there still is that perhaps a dualistic tendency in the organization of services, particularly in the UK. And I'm sure it applies to other countries as well, that if you have a physical problem, you go and see the physical services. If you have a mental health problem, you go and see the mental health part services. And I think that leaves populations like torture survivors who present with a really complex mix of all of these factors in quite a precarious position. So for example, they might come to a pain service, I'll see a physio, and they might say, Oh, you look like you're really struggling with PTSD. Let's get you some help with that and then come back and see me. So then they'll get referred to a psychological service, but they might struggle to engage with the psychological service because of the pain that they're in. So it just seems to be, I think the service provision we have at the moment isn't well suited to this population. Karen Litzy:                   07:07                And so is this population, they're not being treated collectively. So if they're going to see, let's say you for pain, they'll see you and then if they're referred to psychologists or psychiatrists, they stopped seeing you and go see a psychiatrist or psychologist. It's not happening at the same time. Daniel Board:                07:28                So at the moment, no, not in the general health services. I think the key thing with any care and specifically with this population is it is very individualized, each of their particular problems or the things that are affecting the very individualized. So, for example, we might have someone who gets referred to the pain clinic I work at and they might really be struggling with their mental health. They might be really struggling with PTSD, having regular flashbacks. And what we try and do is assess the weight of the various physical, psychological and social components and help them kind of almost line it up. As in what do you think is the most important thing to get sorted first? Do you think you'll be able to engage with the pain service? Daniel Board:                08:13                You've actually got all this other really difficult stuff going on. So for those people we might say go and engage with a community mental health team, get some help with the PTSD and then come back. But that being said, I think that doesn't mean that people who are undergoing sort of significant psychological distress can't engage with pain services. So what we've started to do, we've just set up, a specific exercise class for this group of people, which is psychologically supported. So myself and one of my psychology colleagues, we've kind of paired the approach right down to keep it simple and actually you say kind of we understand you're really struggling with your pain problem. We can try and help you or try and help it impact you less. So actually setting some goals with you. We use the patient specific functional scales are really nice outcome measure if keep going, what do you want to do? I'm really struggling to bend over. I can't play with my kids. I can't climb stairs. Okay, great. Let's see if we can start doing that. And I think well slightly off on a tangent. Pain education is a really important part of that. But I think sometimes it gets lost in translation particularly. Karen Litzy:                   09:23                Yeah. I was just going to ask if it is a language barrier talking about pain education, we know that we can simplify it. Not Dumb it down but we can simplify it. But if there is this language barrier that Gosh, that must make it so much harder. Daniel Board:                09:35                It is really, really difficult and there is some really nice work being done. The evidence base is limited, but there is some really nice work being done. April Gamble, who is a researcher who I've met here with the conference has done some really nice work looking at pain education in groups within their cultural setting and has come up with a variety of different tools that can be a cultural accessible tools that can be used. So she's definitely a person, a good person to speak to you. I think what we try and do in the clinic is find one very simple metaphor that we can use with patients. So I'll talk a lot about the volume on your nervous system being really high or I don't know, when you're assessing you find something that works for them and then when we're doing stuff in Vivo, kind of let's do some exercises, what's showing up for you? Daniel Board:                10:23                Kind of what thoughts are coming in your head, how that might be a barrier and that's where the psychologist is really helpful. But then looking at reassurance, lots of reassurance and actually, okay, you're not damaging yourself. It's just a volume knob on high and I will mimic turning up a volume knob about a million times a day, I think with my patients. And yeah, it seems to work well for a group. But again, we can't be prescriptive and actually it doesn't work with everyone and we still need to look at other ways of engaging that group that it's not necessarily working for. Karen Litzy:                   10:55                Yeah, great thoughts. Thank you. And anything else? Did we miss anything else from the study? Daniel Board:                11:04                So they key things, I'll summarize them cause I can remember them cause we just talked about them. I guess the key things were that there was a distinct lack of recognition of torture experience when diagnosing and treating pain. There was something which we haven't overly covered, which was that the patient clinician relationship. Karen Litzy:                   11:23                We're going to touch on that in a second. That was my next question, but go ahead. Daniel Board:                11:27                We'll hold that one. And then the last thing was the current organization of health care services and how that's not necessarily conducive to such a complex population. Karen Litzy:                   11:36                My next question, if you didn't bring it up, was going to be how do you as the therapist, how are you able to connect number one and number two, is there a burnout rate for the therapist, working with people in this population? Because if you're an empath, let's say someone who's very, very empathetic, I would think this would be a really tough group to work with until you kind of get your bearings with them. So can you kind of touch upon that? Daniel Board:                12:08                Absolutely. Starting with your question about the patient kind of clinician relationship and how you foster a kind of a good therapeutic relationship. I think you can probably over complicate it a little bit. I think from a therapist perspective, I think one of the key things that we have as physiotherapists is we're very good at talking to people and we're very good at helping people kind of be open. And I think actually what physios in the clinic, when we spend time with people, we're often the first sort of people that they might have told about that specific problem. I think we're really lucky. I'm really lucky that I'm able to work with psychologists, so if there's anything that is really significant that they're on hand and they can help me. Daniel Board:                12:53                But I think as Physios, certainly when I was not working in pain, I think we look at mental health as a bit of a Pandora's box. And I think there is a fear amongst some therapists of going, well, I don't know. I don't want to ask the question about your mental health or how your depression is, or whether you've been taught, for example, because I don't know what I'm going to do with that information afterwards. So if I get an impression of you being a low mood and then you tell me that you've got some suicidal thoughts, I've got to act on that. And that's scary. So I think personally myself, I used to be perhaps that way inclined. But actually I think as I said, we're very good at talking. Daniel Board:                13:31                A lot of what we do is talking as a profession. And I think actually just having a really good listening ear to someone, being able to say the things that come naturally to you with patients. So I'm not acting in shock at someone's telling you what's happened to them or avoiding questions about things that might be difficult and then dealing with whatever it is that comes up and that probably will have an element of you knowing what your support processes are within your service. So we have a really good pathway for suicidal ideation, for example. I think that patient clinician relationship is really, really important. And I think we as therapists, we've got really good chance to just be open and talk to patients. In the same sentence though, not with all survivors specifically. One of the things in the study was that actually some people really wanted to tell you about their experience and some people didn't. Some people were really avoidant of it. And I think it's just being careful that you're not overstepping. Just being kind of a really sensitive approach is important. Karen Litzy:                   14:31                So the other question was, as the therapist, how do you protect yourself from burnout, from feeling just so empathetic towards these people that you're taking it home with you at the end of the day? Daniel Board:                14:46                I guess there's a couple of things. I'm very lucky as I said that I work with a really good team of Physio, psychologist, doctors, nurses, and I would feel very comfortable being able to say or talk about anything that I was worried at with them. I think, sadly you do get a bit used to those conversations at times. I think they do affect you less. But inevitably you're going to hear stuff, which is, which is horrendous. And I think the key thing in the same way that you would do with any other kind of mental health is not keeping it bottled up and actually if you need support, being able to talk about it, with your colleagues to get some support if you felt that that was needed. Karen Litzy:                   15:23                Yeah. No, that's fair. That's fair. Well, I mean, I have to say I think it's a wonderful service that you're providing for this group. It's not easy. I have never worked with that population so I can't put myself in your shoes. But I admire it greatly because these are truly marginalized group of people who really need the care. So congratulations to you and your clinic on doing this. Daniel Board:                15:50                Thank you.  I think this population encounters physios every day, I think we're just lucky that we've got a service, which is nicely set up to help the people. Karen Litzy:                   16:00                Yeah. All right. So I have one last question before we finish. Well two actually, but we'll start with one and it's a question that I ask everyone. So knowing where you are now in your career and in your life, what advice would you give to yourself as a new Grad straight out of physio school? Daniel Board:                16:19                Very, very good question. As a new Grad, I'm going to say is probably the key thing is say yes to everything. Opportunities. A good physio colleague of mine, Dave Reese when I was applying to do the masters of research we did last year, I was unsure. I kind of had that imposter syndrome and I think we often feel that, and he said a really good, a good thing, just lean in. So any of those kinds of experiences, which might seem scary, like presenting at a conference or being interviewed for a podcast or whatever it might be in your professional life, whether that be clinical research, I think, yeah, just take any opportunity to develop and learn from people that perhaps know more than you. Karen Litzy:                   16:59                Great Advice. And then lastly, where can people find you if they have questions they want to follow you on social media, where can they find you? Daniel Board:                17:05                I'm relatively active on Twitter and my Twitter name is @BoardDan that's probably the easiest way to get me as well. Karen Litzy:                   17:14                Perfect. And just so all the listeners know, we'll have links to your clinic and links to everything at podcasts.healthywealthysmart.com. So you can go over there one click and it'll take you to anything if you want more information. So, Dan, thank you so much for taking time out of your day at WCPT. And everyone, thanks for listening. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy, and smart.   Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram  and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest!  Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on iTunes!

Nebuchadnezzar is dreaming again. But this time the dream is not about multiple kingdoms—it is about himself. Of course, he does not know that, so he again runs to Daniel, his favorite dream catcher. This time Daniel is not quite so willing and excited to share the interpretation of the dream. Daniel seems to like Nebuchadnezzar and hopes for good things, but God has the king in the crosshairs, and is planning to bring divine justice on him for his arrogance and willful rebellion. So Daniel tells him the truth. He shares both the bad news of God’s opposition to the King’s pride, and the good news of hope for repentance and restoration. Followers of Jesus also know the fate of the people around us; that without redemption, they, too, face God’s justice. As Kingdom exiles, we learn that God has placed us in every situation so that we can point people to their need for the Gospel and the hope that can only be found in Jesus.

In part one (0:00-6:30), the guys briefly go over the previous conversations from the Son of Man series. Tim explains that in order to fully understand the Son of Man imagery in Daniel 7, Daniel 1-6 needs to first be unpacked. Daniel 7 is significant because it’s a culminating vision of the whole Hebrew Bible imagery told in one very dense chapter. In part two (6:30-25:50), the guys go over the history of the Babylonian Empire and King Nebuchadnezzar. He was a king of the Neo-Babylonian Empire, a sort of resurgence of the previous Babylonian rule. Babylon had long been dormant while Assyria was the world superpower, but Babylon had a brief rise to prominence again under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar. He dominated Jerusalem and took their promising youth with him to Babylon. Daniel was in this group. Tim points out a few hyperlinks to other parts of the Hebrew Bible at the beginning of the book of Daniel. Daniel is the "royal seed" carried away to Babylon who replays the test of Adam and Eve and succeeds! Daniel 1:3-4: "And the king of Babylon told his officers to bring from the sons of Israel and from the royal seed… youths...who were good of sight and wise with all wisdom, and knowing knowledge, and understanding knowledge…" Dan 1:5-7: "And the king assigned for them a daily ration of the king’s choice food and his wine, to raise them for three years so they could stand in his service. Among them were sons of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah...but Daniel set it upon his heart to not defile himself with the king’s choice food or his wine…" Dan 1:12: "Daniel said, 'Let there be given to us from the seeds, and we will eat, and water, and we will drink.'" Daniel is depicted as a new Adam, who is brought into Babylon already having great knowledge. He refuses the forbidden food (Daniel ch. 1) and only increases in wisdom! Instead, he adopts an Eden-diet of veggies and water and is elevated to serve in the king’s court. Tim’s point is that Daniel is the forbidden fruit that the king of Babylon has just taken. Daniel has an opportunity to eat the forbidden food of the king and break his kosher diet. He refuses the forbidden food and therefore passes the test. In part three (25:50-end), Tim and Jon go over the two dreams that Nebuchadnezzar has leading up to Daniel 7. In Daniel 2, the king has a dream. Once Daniel gives the interpretation, the king worships Daniel. Daniel 2:46-49: "Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell on his face and worshipped (sagid) Daniel, and gave orders to present to him an offering and incense. Then the king promoted Daniel and gave him many great gifts, and he made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon. And Daniel made request of the king, and he appointed Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego over the administration of the province of Babylon, while Daniel was at the king’s court." Then Daniel 3 is an inversion of Daniel 2. The king wants everyone to worship an image of him. This is the story of the blazing furnace. Daniel 3:10-12: “You, O king, have made a decree that every man who hears the sound of the horn, flute, lyre, trigon, psaltery, and bagpipe and all kinds of music, is to fall down and worship the image of gold. “But whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire. “There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the administration of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. These men, O king, have disregarded you; they do not serve (palakh) your gods or worship the golden image which you have set up.” So Daniel 2 and 3 are inversions of each other, and then in Daniel 4, the king has another dream. In the dream, a "watcher” appears. Tim notes that this is the only time that specific word appears in the Hebrew Bible. However, it also appears in the book of Enoch, a Jewish book written in the same time period. The king calls Daniel again to interpret the dream. Daniel 4:20-25: "The tree that you saw, which became large and grew strong, whose height reached to the sky and was visible to all the earth and whose foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, and in which was food for all, under which the beasts of the field dwelt and in whose branches the birds of the sky lodged— it is you, O king; for you have become great and grown strong, and your majesty has become great and reached to the sky and your dominion to the end of the earth. ‘In that the king saw a watcher, a holy one, descending from heaven and saying, “Chop down the tree and destroy it; yet leave the stump with its roots in the ground, but with a band of iron and bronze in the new grass of the field, and let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, and let him share with the beasts of the field until seven periods of time pass over him,” this is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king: that you be driven away from mankind and your dwelling place be with the beasts of the field, and you be given grass to eat like cattle and be drenched with the dew of heaven; and seven periods of time will pass over you, until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes." Tim notes that when the Babylons of this world acknowledge that God is truly the wise sovereign, then they can become the true human rulers they’re intended to be. But when they do not, when they turn their national power and glory into an idol (as in Daniel chs. 2 and 3), God shows them what they are: beasts. The narrative contrasts the beastly Babylon with the human Daniel who submits to God’s rule and is elevated to rule by God’s wisdom. So to sum up the episode: The king of Babylon’s worship of the divine image of Daniel in Daniel 2 is ironically reversed in Daniel 3, where his friends are forced to worship the false image of Babylon. These twin stories set up the tension of the book: What humanity will be exalted as the divinely appointed ruler of the world? Babylon or the “royal seed” represented by Daniel and his friends? The king’s worship of Daniel becomes a narrative image of the worship of the son of man in Daniel 7. And Daniel 7 is a symbolic and cosmic depiction of a real, historical conflict (Antiochus’ attack on Jerusalem and defilement of the temple in 167 B.C.) that has been depicted as part of an ancient pattern going all the way back to Genesis 1-3. Thank you to all of our supporters! Show Produced By: Dan Gummel, Jon Collins Show Music: Defender Instrumental, Tents Bloc, KV Show Resources: Our video on the Son of Man: https://bit.ly/2URk3BH B. Mastin, "Daniel 2:46 in the Hellenistic World," in Zeitschrift für alttestamentliche Wissenschaft, volume 85 (1973), pages 80-93. Crispin Fletcher-Louis, "Jesus Monotheism" chapter 6, "High Priestly and Royal Messianism,"

elibrayley.comDaniel - The Sovereignty of GodDaniel 6 (NASB)6 It seemed good to Darius to appoint 120 satraps over the kingdom, that they would be in charge of the whole kingdom, 2 and over them three commissioners (of whom Daniel was one), that these satraps might be accountable to them, and that the king might not suffer loss. 3 Then this Daniel began distinguishing himself among the commissioners and satraps because he possessed an extraordinary spirit, and the king planned to appoint him over the entire kingdom. 4 Then the commissioners and satraps began trying to find a ground of accusation against Daniel in regard to government affairs; but they could find no ground of accusation or evidence of corruption, inasmuch as he was faithful, and no negligence or corruption was to be found in him. 5 Then these men said, “We will not find any ground of accusation against this Daniel unless we find it against him with regard to the law of his God.”6 Then these commissioners and satraps came by agreement to the king and spoke to him as follows: “King Darius, live forever! 7 All the commissioners of the kingdom, the prefects and the satraps, the high officials and the governors have consulted together that the king should establish a statute and enforce an injunction that anyone who makes a petition to any god or man besides you, O king, for thirty days, shall be cast into the lions' den. 8 Now, O king, establish the injunction and sign the document so that it may not be changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.” 9 Therefore King Darius signed the document, that is, the injunction.10 Now when Daniel knew that the document was signed, he entered his house (now in his roof chamber he had windows open toward Jerusalem); and he continued kneeling on his knees three times a day, praying and giving thanks before his God, as he had been doing previously. 11 Then these men came by agreement and found Daniel making petition and supplication before his God. 12 Then they approached and spoke before the king about the king's injunction, “Did you not sign an injunction that any man who makes a petition to any god or man besides you, O king, for thirty days, is to be cast into the lions' den?” The king replied, “The statement is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which may not be revoked.” 13 Then they answered and spoke before the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, O king, or to the injunction which you signed, but keeps making his petition three times a day.”14 Then, as soon as the king heard this statement, he was deeply distressed and set his mind on delivering Daniel; and even until sunset he kept exerting himself to rescue him. 15 Then these men came by agreement to the king and said to the king, “Recognize, O king, that it is a law of the Medes and Persians that no injunction or statute which the king establishes may be changed.”16 Then the king gave orders, and Daniel was brought in and cast into the lions' den. The king spoke and said to Daniel, “Your God whom you constantly serve will Himself deliver you.” 17 A stone was brought and laid over the mouth of the den; and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the signet rings of his nobles, so that nothing would be changed in regard to Daniel. 18 Then the king went off to his palace and spent the night fasting, and no entertainment was brought before him; and his sleep fled from him.19 Then the king arose at dawn, at the break of day, and went in haste to the lions' den. 20 When he had come near the den to Daniel, he cried out with a troubled voice. The king spoke and said to Daniel, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you constantly serve, been able to deliver you from the lions?”21 Then Daniel spoke to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent His angel and shut the lions' mouths and they have not harmed me, inasmuch as I was found innocent before Him; and also toward you, O king, I have committed no crime.” 23 Then the king was very pleased and gave orders for Daniel to be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den and no injury whatever was found on him, because he had trusted in his God. 24 The king then gave orders, and they brought those men who had maliciously accused Daniel, and they cast them, their children and their wives into the lions' den; and they had not reached the bottom of the den before the lions overpowered them and crushed all their bones.25 Then Darius the king wrote to all the peoples, nations and men of every language who were living in all the land: “May your peace abound! 26 I make a decree that in all the dominion of my kingdom men are to fear and tremble before the God of Daniel;For He is the living God and enduring forever,And His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed,And His dominion will be forever.27 “He delivers and rescues and performs signs and wondersIn heaven and on earth,Who has also delivered Daniel from the power of the lions.”28 So this Daniel enjoyed success in the reign of Darius and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

elibrayley.comDaniel - The Sovereignty of GodDaniel 2:1-24 (NASB)2 Now in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; and his spirit was troubled and his sleep left him. 2 Then the king gave orders to call in the magicians, the conjurers, the sorcerers and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams. So they came in and stood before the king. 3 The king said to them, “I had a dream and my spirit is anxious to understand the dream.”4 Then the Chaldeans spoke to the king in Aramaic: “O king, live forever! Tell the dream to your servants, and we will declare the interpretation.”5 The king replied to the Chaldeans, “The command from me is firm: if you do not make known to me the dream and its interpretation, you will be torn limb from limb and your houses will be made a rubbish heap. 6 But if you declare the dream and its interpretation, you will receive from me gifts and a reward and great honor; therefore declare to me the dream and its interpretation.” 7 They answered a second time and said, “Let the king tell the dream to his servants, and we will declare the interpretation.” 8 The king replied, “I know for certain that you are bargaining for time, inasmuch as you have seen that the command from me is firm, 9 that if you do not make the dream known to me, there is only one decree for you. For you have agreed together to speak lying and corrupt words before me until the situation is changed; therefore tell me the dream, that I may know that you can declare to me its interpretation.” 10 The Chaldeans answered the king and said, “There is not a man on earth who could declare the matter for the king, inasmuch as no great king or ruler has ever asked anything like this of any magician, conjurer or Chaldean. 11 Moreover, the thing which the king demands is difficult, and there is no one else who could declare it to the king except gods, whose dwelling place is not with mortal flesh.”12 Because of this the king became indignant and very furious and gave orders to destroy all the wise men of Babylon. 13 So the decree went forth that the wise men should be slain; and they looked for Daniel and his friends to kill them.14 Then Daniel replied with discretion and discernment to Arioch, the captain of the king's bodyguard, who had gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon; 15 he said to Arioch, the king's commander, “For what reason is the decree from the king so urgent?” Then Arioch informed Daniel about the matter. 16 So Daniel went in and requested of the king that he would give him time, in order that he might declare the interpretation to the king.17 Then Daniel went to his house and informed his friends, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, about the matter, 18 so that they might request compassion from the God of heaven concerning this mystery, so that Daniel and his friends would not be destroyed with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.19 Then the mystery was revealed to Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven; 20 Daniel said,“Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever,For wisdom and power belong to Him.21 “It is He who changes the times and the epochs;He removes kings and establishes kings;He gives wisdom to wise menAnd knowledge to men of understanding.22 “It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things;He knows what is in the darkness,And the light dwells with Him.23 “To You, O God of my fathers, I give thanks and praise,For You have given me wisdom and power;Even now You have made known to me what we requested of You,For You have made known to us the king's matter.”24 Therefore, Daniel went in to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to destroy the wise men of Babylon; he went and spoke to him as follows: “Do not destroy the wise men of Babylon! Take me into the king's presence, and I will declare the interpretation to the king.”

Somehow, Greg had never heard Taylor Swift before, including her biggest hit, Shake It Off. So Daniel had him sit and listen to all of T Swift's most successful album, 1989. Did he like it or did the pop sugar content make him cringe? Find out on the episode! Find us on Facebook, Twitter, iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, and mrjonesandme.buzzsprout.com. Theme music: https://bensound.com.

Daniel Kellogg, who teaches composition at the University of Colorado, loves the string quartet. Some of history's greatest composers wrote their most extraordinary music for two violins, a viola and a cello. So Daniel took the job seriously when he set out to write a big statement that he ultimately called String Quartet No. 1. He had worked up to it. He wrote a half-dozen pieces for string quartet before he composed this one. Hear a recording of the world premiere of String Quartet No. 1 -- played by the Grammy-winning Pacifica Quartet at the Aspen Music Festival & School -- in this episode of Centennial Sounds from CPR Classical and Colorado Public Radio.

It turns out that Zac is not great at keeping up to date with news, TV, movies or anything. So Daniel is testing him with some 2018 predictions. Join us as we discuss upcoming movies, games, events and anime for 2018. Did we miss anything you're excited about? Let us know via email at equippableallies@gmail.com

Host Lisa Kiefer speaks with Mandy Aftel, author and natural perfume maker, about her new museum in Berkeley dedicated to perfume and the experience of fragrance, The Aftel Archive of Curious Scents.TRANSCRIPTSpeaker 1:Method to the madness is next. You are listening to method to the madness, a public affairs show on k a l x Barkley Celebrating Bay area innovators. I'm your host Lisa Kiefer, and today I'm speaking with Mandy Af [inaudible]. Mandy is one of the most sought after custom perfume makers in the world. Her first book on perfume essence and Alchemy is accepted as a seminal text. She has collaborated on two cookbooks with celebrated bay area [00:00:30] chef Daniel Patterson exploring the connections between food and fragrance. And most recently she has opened a museum, the [inaudible] archive of curious sense right here in Berkeley on Walnut Street. This is a show about innovators and you have perfect story about how you got started. Speaker 2:I had a practice for 30 years as a psychotherapist in Berkeley and I specialized in artists and writers and I loved my work a lot. I really did. It [00:01:00] was just wonderful. And I wrote a book called the story of your life and it was about how stories work in therapy and in fiction. And I love research. So I read a lot of books about plot and it's just fascinated by, by how people tell stories. And I wrote this book and then after that I kind of knew so much about plot. I wanted to write a novel and that I should make my main character perfumer. And I have no idea why none. I had never been that interested in perfume. I don't know where it came from, but I thought this would be good. This will be kind of sexy [00:01:30] and interesting and juicy. Speaker 2:And I thought, oh, I can do a lot of research, which is very appealing to me. So I began getting books and I knew that perfume was synthetic now, mostly synthetic, if not totally. And I was very interested in real ingredients and real flowers and real trees and leaves and stuff. So I began to collect books from the turn of the last century and they were so fascinating, so beautiful. So interesting. I just loved them. And so then I thought, well, maybe I should take a class for my research, for my novel. So [00:02:00] there was a place I think north of here that taught a little solid perfume class, which it was in a ramen therapy studio and you could make a little perfume with a wax, bees wax and oil. And I went there with a person who was a friend at the time and I got to smell all of these materials and I just totally fell in love with them. Speaker 2:And I also felt like for some reason I could kind of understand them. I could kind of figure some things out about how to work with them. So I made this perfume in class and then my friend who I went to the class with, she said, well, let's start a perfume line. [00:02:30] You know, you'll make all the products and I'll do all the business. And um, and we did, which was kinda crazy. And it got picked up by Nieman Martin, Neiman Marcus, Bergdorf Goodman. And it was like really amazing. And nobody could be more surprised than me. And I loved it. I loved making this stuff. The business came to kind of unfortunate. And I got taken away from me and I thought I was never going to make perfume again quite honestly. And I also thought it was just awful at business. And then my editor, who's also my best friend and I wrote this new book, um, the art [00:03:00] of flavor with her and wrote also wrote the story of your life with her. Speaker 2:She suggested this is several books path, right? Something on Pershing because by then I had 200 turn of the century books. I had hundreds of essences cause I'm very obsessed when I like something. And so I wrote this book called essence and Alchemy, which was I think 15 or so years ago. It's kind of the Bible of perfume. It is. A lot of people got their start with it and then kind of, I just sort of, you know, without being too corny, followed my nose and sort of landed [00:03:30] where I am. We're going to talk about where you are now because you just opened the first museum in the United States about natural essences. Yes, yes. It's called the [inaudible]. It's called the aff tell archive of curious sense. And it's located right here in north Berkeley, so it's at 1518 walnut. It's in a converted garage. It's like a cottage behind my house. Speaker 2:I think it was a garage like 50 years ago. It's on a few doors down from Pete's and we're only opening police. It's right behind chase and it's only open one day a week [00:04:00] on Saturdays by ticket. And it is the best thing I have ever done. I just love it. Well walk me through, if I were to go in there, I know you have what is called an Oregon. Yes. What is that? Oh, it's so cool. It's a a perfume organ is very thin shelves and many of them that you put the perfume bottles on. So when you're sitting beneath that, it kind of looks like an Oregon assence's used for perfume, natural essences, but also synthetics as well are called notes and you put them together and they make chords. [00:04:30] So in perfume, different essences like rose or jasmine or orange or Frankincense, they're called top notes, middle notes or base notes. Speaker 2:So you arrange on this organ, on these shelves, the top notes together, which are the ones that reach your sense of smell very quickly and disappear like orange or mint or Lyme, things like that. Things are familiar from gardening or eating. Then the middle notes are more complicated. They have more layers like rose and jasmine and they last [00:05:00] maybe two to four hours. And then base notes are the really deep heavy materials that had been in man's spiritual life since the beginning of time, like sandalwood and Myrrh and Frankincense in there from roots and barks and trees and residence and grasses. And so they kind of have different smell registers if you will, light down to heavy all of your ingredients. Some are very exotic. And I wanted to ask you, you know, you probably have a lot of stories. What is the been the most exotic [00:05:30] smell or essence that you have been able to find and how did you go about finding that? Speaker 2:You know, I really like the hunt and I'm a very passionate human being. So kind of almost everything I have has a hunt connected to it. And one of the things I'd say too about the hunt and finding things is even if I find them, it's not stable, so it's not like I can go back and find that again. So if you marry perfume for someone, then [00:06:00] that perfume is a onetime deal. Yes. So I have Gardenia, which was really a hunt, really, really a hunt and I thought it didn't exist. And honeysuckle, which I also, when I wrote essence in Alchemy, I said they didn't exist. I knew at that point I had never found them. People can render these materials if they want to take the time and somebody wants to spend the money, but natural essences for such very high prices are not really in demand in industry. Speaker 2:So no one wants to pay the kind of money. I think the story of the Tiara is pretty interesting. [00:06:30] Tre is a gardenia that's in Tahiti. One of my students who was snorkeling I think in Tahiti, ran across this guy who had this gardenia that was just so beautiful, so incredible. She put me in touch with him. I got in touch with him and it's just, he has this stuff. I have a fantasy of his life. I'm sure I'm wrong. I feel like he might be like on a yacht boating. I don't know where I call him cause he doesn't call me back. I believe I'm his only customer only because he's difficult to [00:07:00] pin down and get anything from. It's clear to me, he doesn't care if he sells this stuff, but he has, you know, all the right analysis of his material, his materials, very beautiful. Speaker 2:When he sends it, you have to follow all these rules. It's very touch and go. Whether it'll actually get to me, which is why I think I could be the only one because I take all the risk on it coming because lots of forms need to be filled out and they always, you know, call us and ask us to fill them out. But it's this very beautiful, voluptuous gardenia smelled. It's just [00:07:30] narcotic. And what form does it come to you comes to me in a form that's called an absolute, which is a solvent extraction, which is a cold process that releases these very volatile, flighty, rich, layered kind of smells that are inside that Gardenia. So it's extremely heavy and very scarily expensive. I mean truly scarily expensive. Like what? Like around 10 $12,000 a kilo, which is 2.2 pounds. I don't buy 2.2 pounds. Speaker 2:He will sell less to me. So [00:08:00] I buy it in smaller amounts, which means I'm continually, when I run out cause I don't buy very much cause it's so expensive. You know, he sells it to me again, which I'm very grateful for. You talk about the history of sense. Can you tell us a story about any in particular that in history that you uncovered that was an astounding story? Well aren't you I think is a pretty amazing story. [inaudible] is really fascinating. There are these shells, they're very ordinary looking like the [00:08:30] top of a shelter like this big and they're there. They're not gorgeous. Your shells can be really beautiful little shells. And I found that they were in the original recipe for incense that God gave to Moses. And so in the, in the cataract, I'm not positive I'm saying that correctly, but they're in there and they've been using incense tradition for a really long time and they're pretty fascinating. Speaker 2:I have them in the museum and I have very old, I think from 1600 on handmade paper and hand colored illustration [00:09:00] of them from that far back of the shelves. They're very lowly but they're very famous. And so I pound those up with a mortar and pestle and then I soak them in very, very high proof alcohol and the smell comes out of them and it's a kind of briny sea, slightly animal kind of mysterious kind of smell. And that was like amazing to find and be able to use almost sounds like a sexual, well, there are ones that are really sexual, that ones less sexual. What are some of the, some of the others? Well all [00:09:30] the animal ingredients which are very, have very complicated pass in a lot of ethical issues to them but have very tangled histories with us. And some of them are endangered, so I'm not, you know, suggesting people, you know, run out and use them. Speaker 2:But they are very sexy. Mosque is the original, very, very sexy kind of aroma. And it's very intense, real Musk. And I do have that also in the museum. In my museum, I have a hundred year old essences, like I have a hundred year old ambergris, I have a hundred year old things and some to be compared to modern ones. So they've aged [00:10:00] over a hundred years and they're extraordinary smelling. And I think I may have the only bottles of them if someone else has them. I haven't run into them yet, you know? And when I bought them, I'd never heard heard of anyone having these very, very old bottles of these things. And so I have one little exhibit in the museum comparing old and modern ordinary oils and not these, these animal ones. But there's an ingredient that is in jasmine and orange flower and an animal ingredient called civit, which is called indoor. Speaker 2:[00:10:30] It's also in poop. So it's kind of this fecal floral kind of edgy sort of Yin and Yang kind of smell that's really a piece of the natural perfume world in terms of something, not just being sweet or not just being a beautiful flower. So like jasmine, when you really smell jasmine, when you go in Berkeley at night past a real patch of jasmine and it kinda like, you know, knocks you out. It's very sexy and it's got a kind of dirty aspect too. It's not just like this clean, [00:11:00] sanitized smell. It's got that kind of dirty aspect, which makes it sexy and interesting. Well, I have to tell you, I live back east for a while and then came back to the bay area. Yes. And one of the things I really noticed walking around in Berkeley was that very thing, that sort of jazz, mini sweet but stinky, almost like nauseated. Speaker 2:And I thought, wow, I wonder if she ever does city smells like you know, here's your bottle of Berkeley. You know, it's that aspect of natural aromas that drew me in in the first place. [00:11:30] Their beauty is so complex. It's the, it's the complexity of a really good cooking or gardening. We have really fragrant plants. When smells are really good, they're very complex. They're not just one thread of a smell. They're a rich kind of cocktail of different aromas and I just love that. I love the worlds that open up when you really take the time to inhale and smell deeply. Speaker 1:If you're just tuning in, you're listening to method to the madness, a weekly public affairs [00:12:00] show on k a l x Berkeley Celebrating Bay area innovators. Today I'm speaking with Mandy [inaudible], founder of f Telia perfumes and the app tell archive of curious sense a museum which explores the natural history of perfume right here in Berkeley. Speaking of cooking, you've done a couple of books with, Speaker 2:you know, Patterson, the chef of Kwon. Yes. Most recently it was called [00:12:30] the art of flavor. You did a Roma with him. How is it different from what we did, I think about 15 years ago and it really focused on essential oils for cooking and for personal care. So Daniel would have like three cooking recipes for say rose and I would have one personal care thing, a a a body oil or lip balm, a something for your face, bath salts, whatever for each of the ingredients. This book is really different and it was really exciting. Came out art of flavor from Riverhead in August. And so we just have been doing [00:13:00] some things about it. Daniel, first of all is you know, brilliant and amazing to work with and we discovered we'd been friends for many years that our ways of working were the same. When we would talk about how I would create a fragrance and how he would create a flavor. Speaker 2:We were both thinking our heads were in the same place, thinking about ingredients and complicated ingredients. And so we thought let's do something on flavor. Let's kind of teach this to people because we wanted to. So we want to do something for the home cook that's really simple, that focuses on things [00:13:30] that you have, not expensive stuff. Very simple stuff. And what we found was so much was interesting about how to create flavor because it's, it's like creating perfume. So we focused a lot on shopping with your nose, really smelling ingredients, really thinking about the different shapes of ingredients, the different textures of them, things that I think about with scent. Then we also went on and talked about how your, you're effecting flavor. The minute you start cutting into something and all the cooking techniques, [00:14:00] everything's oriented towards flavor. And then we have a thing in the book, there's a really wonderful flavor compass, which is all the aroma, all the very, very aromatic and very essential oil rich ingredients. Speaker 2:So it's citruses, herbs, spices, and flowers. So we talked about how to use those ingredients because they're very complicated in a way that you wouldn't think about. So like when you're using Bazell, why would you use Bazell instead of tear gum? We wanted to empower people to make good decisions. Why use lemon instead of line? [00:14:30] But in the book there's no real using of essential oils. You're using these essential oils that are in the plant. So it's in the leaves of the man and you're talking about Basal medium that is best to use to extract that. No, you don't need to do any of that stuff. With our book, we basically say smell these ingredients like smell Thai Bazell. If you're in a store, rip off a little leaf and smell it or drip off a little flower and smell it really smelled the end of the the care Rick really smell the things [00:15:00] you buy and then use them and be smelling all the way as you're cooking so you don't need to render anything because he essential oils will leave. Speaker 2:That's what you're really getting the flavor from. It's the essential oils in mint that make for the mint flavor. The minute you start to crush it or cut it up, the oils coming out. Same with Bazell or if you're with an orange and you just push your finger nail into the peel of an orange, that's the oil. So I have to do is use the zest and some of it is in the orange juice of the lemon juice. [00:15:30] Or if you're clove, if you pound it up or you stick your finger in there, there's the oil oil is right there. So we wanted to make it very easy to use those oils right there in the plants. We talk a lot about that and it's just book I'm really proud of. I'm very excited about what we discovered because if you think about it, people tell you what to put together in food, but they don't tell you why. Speaker 2:So you're empowered to do it on your own. If you're in a farmer's market or you're in Safeway or wherever you are and you see something, you think, well, I've got these kind of crummy carrots at [00:16:00] home, what could I put with this to make it good? We talk about that. So simple and very special. And you have your own f Tele, a perfume company, and um, you do perfumes for individuals. You know, when you go into department stores or really any big stores that sell perfume, it's such a [inaudible] of horrible, I don't even wear perfume anymore. My customer is the person who doesn't wear perfume. What is the difference between synthetic perfume and natural essence? Perfume is big business [00:16:30] and you can make a lot of money in perfume with the big, big brands and things like that. And so they moved almost a century ago to using synthetics. Speaker 2:And those are manmade chemicals. So the natural essences are still there. They're still around and they have, they're really, really different in the first way they're really different is they don't last. So if you put on a perfume of mind, I probably wouldn't be able to smell it from here. They're very personal. You need to be very close to the person [00:17:00] and also they evolve with your skin and so they change on each person and just fade away. So my big selling line, if someone calls me, it gets me on the phone is how would you like to buy a perfume that costs a whole lot more money that doesn't last and the bottle is tiny. Does that sound good because of this? Sounds good. I'm your perfumer. So it's a reeducation of people to not expect something that's cheap in a bottle that it has no real relationship to the earth and [00:17:30] so when you wear it, it's a really different experience and it's what I fell in love with. Speaker 2:There are people who love synthetics and there's also people who work with both naturals and synthetics and working in artists in a way. I just love natural essences, all that complexity, all that tangled history with us as a species. All the places around the world that they come from. It's local, but it's really exotic. I like all that. So that's why I like to work with. If you have a client that comes in, I can imagine that you maybe [00:18:00] unwittingly call on your psychotherapy skills to help a person determine, I don't, you don't have such a disappointment. It's like such a great like I am and I'm not, I mean it's there but it's not know how you think. So let me explain that. Most people who do custom perfume have a questionnaire which I don't have and they ask psychological questions, which I also don't have like, you know, do like winter. Speaker 2:Do you like spring and can you tell me a memory that you, you know, that happened that was important and [00:18:30] what's your favorite color and a lot of stuff like that. I don't ask anything. So nothing at all. You come in to my studio, but I do pay a lot of attention about people. The main thought for me is that it isn't your conscious mind and your identity to the world that helps you decide what smells you like. And that's what you would tell me in those questionnaires. I feel that's not what's true. What's true is what you resonate with when you smell the ingredients. [00:19:00] So I give you the opportunity to smell all these different top notes and middle notes and base notes and you pick your favorites. I give you lots of bottles of things to smell, not to overwhelm but to kind of get a sense of your taste. Speaker 2:And when you smell the individual ingredients on their own, then you get to make a decision that you may not have made otherwise. I've done a lot of custom perfumes for men. They pick a lot of florals. So you would think by questionnaire and psychology, they wouldn't pick florals, but they do. And women pick lots of woods [00:19:30] and resins and so on. So I find the sexual stereotyping to be completely out the window. And also very early in my custom career, that part of it, I remember this woman came to see me and she was very corporate, you know, and I made a real snap decision about how she looked and who she was and whatever. I was very prejudiced. She picked the sexiest, wildest, unconventional style. And that was like a life changing thing for me. Cause I thought you or your presentation is totally [00:20:00] different than what's going on with you. Speaker 2:So that for me, the essences have personalities. So when you pick them, I learned about you but not the other way around. So if a magazine calls me to say, Oh, you know, it's Valentine's Day and we have a really sporty mom, or we've got one that likes to go clubbing a woman, you know what suggest a perfume. And I would always say, God, I have no idea because I mean cause she likes to go clubbing this, you know, or she's driving her kids around, you know, on a station wagon to send, tell me what perfume she'd like. I can't help. [00:20:30] So it's very different for me. So you have had some very interesting clients, one of which one of my heroes of all time. Leonard Cohen. Yes. I would love to hear about that interaction. Well I had a, a relationship with him for 20 years. Speaker 2:I was very afraid to meet him. So, so we wrote back and forth when I made stuff for him, we wrote back and forth and I was kind of incredibly, I was very lucky that he loved my work and that was like [00:21:00] beyond, I mean really beyond, beyond the, beyond to me. Um, cause I idolized him and I was just too fearful to ever meet him until right before he died. I knew he was ill and I knew I needed to like either get over it or regret it. So I did go and and meet him. But we had been in touch, we were in a lot of touch over the years with many different things I made and we had a kind of gift giving relationship. I think I frustrated him a lot by not letting him [00:21:30] pay cause I could see it disturbed him. Speaker 2:And every once in awhile I would say, I'm going to charge you for this. But the thought of him paying, I wonder if he ever wrote a song about, he has fragrance in a lot of his songs and he was a very, he was just loved smells. He like smells that had a very deep, like the Anja from the Kettering. When I got involved in that, he sent me one of the formulas for the Kettering from some Kabbalah group he was interested in. So he was very interested in the things that [00:22:00] I made from head. Very ancient materials in them and he loved that and he wore it whenever he went out. And that was kind of unbelievable too. I mean, still still utterly unbelievable to me. Did you listen to his last hello? Oh my God. Yes. Well, when we went to finally go meet him, he asked if I'd like to hear a song and he played the whole album for foster and I in his living room and talk to me about it. Speaker 2:And it was like one of the most amazing experiences of my entire life. So I want to talk to you about the business. [00:22:30] Okay. You say you aren't really a business person. I love business. I love business, but I like it my way. Well, let's talk about that. You really followed your passion. Yes. Without any kind of business school. Oh my God. [inaudible] classes are these. So tell us about your business structure and um, well this is my favorite. I just love my business, our business. I do it with my husband foster and we're partners in it together. Our business is so unusual and [00:23:00] we love it so much. We barely can go to sleep at night. We work a lot, really a lot. Um, I am the sort of person who has always has not fit in certainly from my background in Michigan and I'm just eccentric would be a nice word. Speaker 2:I'm just kind of different and I lost my first business so I thought I was really bad at business. And um, we have this very unusual business model that we made up. Just kinda like the museum. I mean all of it we kind [00:23:30] of concocted. I remember being there making the museum day after day after day for three years and thinking, you know, people go to school for this, you know, like display or any of this stuff we were doing and we did a lot wrong. We were very willing to like do it wrong and do it again. I mean you can tell we, we are people that have no boss cause a boss would have probably fired us by now because you know, if we get it wrong we just start all over again. We just forget where are you profitable, you're profitable. We were profitable pretty early. Speaker 2:We are profitable, [00:24:00] we're very profitable. So to me that says like if you do what you love, guess you're going to make it. Is that an assumption? That is, I think, I think that we're so lucky to be profitable and I think that, um, I do do what I love. I believe in what I'm doing. I work really hard and sodas foster and we spend a lot of time thinking through how we could improve because it's fun for us. So we, we pay attention. And I, one of the things [00:24:30] I've said a lot about businesses that anyone can get a customer, it's getting a repeat customer that makes a business and a repeat customer that tells their friends. And that's, that's our base. So people that come to us are by and large very happy with their experience with us and we're happy with it too. Speaker 2:So we write, for example, I write a note to everyone who buy something and we call everybody back immediately. If we do something, you know, we've send the wrong stuff, we send other stuff. On the other hand, we educate [00:25:00] our customer to what we have. So we have no free samples. We're never open. We, we have, you know, we're not, don't fight. I mean people expect free samples in the perfume world, but we feel that our, it's called the juice. Our, our thing is very valuable to us. It takes us a long time to make it so we don't want to give it away because we want people to value our work. Have people tried to buy you? Yes, but I don't have any interest in being yes. But I see a few times, but I don't have any intro. [00:25:30] I'll tell you, I had this incredible experience with this very wealthy man who's now dead in Los Angeles is very interested and I was interested, I mean, some of this stuff, I was interested in these things because I needed to see them to realize they weren't for me. Speaker 2:So it's very easy for me, which I think is a big key to business to say no. Like I'm not seduced very easily at all because so many things just look bad. You know, I feel like what I'm doing, [00:26:00] I love and want to protect. So having lots more money is not interesting to me. Doing work for, you know, tons of people or whatever. I, I don't want to grow. I don't want to be bigger. I don't want to do the things that most people want to do. So it's of no interest. So it's very easy to stay on track. It's not, I'm not struggling with anything. So when people have tried to buy me, they have this, this is very telling when to this man and, and he was really loved my work and stuff and he [00:26:30] wanted me to know, for example, my cost of goods, which is I think what people know. Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know. I still don't know. I think people like think I'm lying, but I don't, because let's say I buy a kilo of rose or a pound or whatever I buy, I have my old one there too, and then my old one cost a different amount of money. Or maybe I got it somewhere else. You need to know the price per drop, but I can't figure that out. Then I sell some of it. So I have a little bit of my business is my overflow [00:27:00] of my oils that I love and I source. So people who like my taste or other perfumers sometimes buy from me, I make a profit on that. Not a ton, but I make a profit. So then I'm completely, cause I'm dyslexic, confused about what that drop of rose must cost since I've sold some off and made some mix them together. Speaker 2:So when I went to this man and he wanted to buy me, I had to give him the cost of goods. I spent a lot of time trying to work it out like what a drop of rose cost me or whatever. [00:27:30] And in the end I thought this is a sign I can't, I can't do this if this is what you do in a real quote, real business because we think of our businesses, kind of a toy business. I wasn't going to get there. So I feel like a lot of things people do for business kind of rips the heart and soul out of what you're doing. And I just don't want to go that way. It sounds like that your best advice is if you don't love something, forget about it. Yes, and so we're, we're very tiny. We, we work together with foster son Devin. Speaker 2:It's three of us that [00:28:00] WHO's really there. I greet when I'm there. I greet every person who comes in the museum. I love what I do. I feel so lucky. We're lucky to have you right here in Berkeley. And how can people reach you if they want to take a tour of your museum or buy your book or buy your perfume? Oh, I would love that. The museum is open on Saturday. A. First of all, you can go to my website, which is www.ftelia.com which is a like Adam F, like frank t like Tom, e, l I e r.com. Or [00:28:30] if you can't remember that, just look my name up and hopefully my website will show up also, uh, there at the website. If you go to www dot [inaudible] dot com forward slash archive it would take you to the museum, which I hope everybody will come. Speaker 2:And what's the name of that museum again? It's called the AF tell. Archive of curious sense. It's located at 1518 walnut street between cedar and Vine Open on Saturdays we, we usually have eight people an hour, so we can't have a lot of people. So, but if we can have people we do [00:29:00] and then I have my stuff on my website or you can just call us up if you want to call us up and ask a question and want to buy something. (510) 841-2111. And if I wanted to have a perfume made, perfect, my having a perfume made is the most expensive thing I do. So it's a lot of money. It takes several hours to come and sit with me. It's kind of like a portrait. Speaking of the psychology. So I've had people come back over the years and it changes because I of course look up what they picked before and what they're picking now as [00:29:30] their life changes, their taste and smells changes, and you get a whole, you know, you get like four or five different things. It's really pleasurable. You learn all about the different aromas that go into your preference, a very Speaker 3:personal purchase to really one of a kind experience that I love doing it. It sounds beautiful. I really want to thank you for being on the program. Speaker 1:You've been listening to method to the madness can find all of our podcasts [00:30:00] on iTunes university. Speaker 4:[inaudible]. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Zac recently watched Sky High and doing so nearly broke him. He's got a lot questions and none of them have been answered through his own research. So Daniel is going to take a shot at answering them, hopefully they find a satisfying answer. So strap in, find your powers and quietly ask the nearest passenger how to get to Sky High! Got an answer to any of these questions? Email us at equippableallies@gmail.com

Daniel in the Lions’ Den Daniel 6: 10 Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went home. And in his upper room, with his windows open toward Jerusalem, he knelt down on his knees three times that day, and prayed and gave thanks before his God, as was his custom since early days. 11 Then these men assembled and found Daniel praying and making supplication before his God. 12 And they went before the king, and spoke concerning the king’s decree: “Have you not signed a decree that every man who petitions any god or man within thirty days, except you, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions?” The king answered and said, “The thing is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which does not alter.” 13 So they answered and said before the king, “That Daniel, who is one of the captives[a] from Judah, does not show due regard for you, O king, or for the decree that you have signed, but makes his petition three times a day.” 14 And the king, when he heard these words, was greatly displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him; and he labored till the going down of the sun to deliver him. 15 Then these men approached the king, and said to the king, “Know, O king, that it is the law of the Medes and Persians that no decree or statute which the king establishes may be changed.” 16 So the king gave the command, and they brought Daniel and cast himinto the den of lions. But the king spoke, saying to Daniel, “Your God, whom you serve continually, He will deliver you.” 17 Then a stone was brought and laid on the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the signets of his lords, that the purpose concerning Daniel might not be changed. Daniel Saved from the Lions 18 Now the king went to his palace and spent the night fasting; and no musicians[b] were brought before him. Also his sleep went from him.19 Then the king arose very early in the morning and went in haste to the den of lions. 20 And when he came to the den, he cried out with a lamenting voice to Daniel. The king spoke, saying to Daniel, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to deliver you from the lions?” 21 Then Daniel said to the king, “O king, live forever! 22 My God sent His angel and shut the lions’ mouths, so that they have not hurt me, because I was found innocent before Him; and also, O king, I have done no wrong before you.” 23 Now the king was exceedingly glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no injury whatever was found on him, because he believed in his God. Darius Honors God 24 And the king gave the command, and they brought those men who had accused Daniel, and they cast them into the den of lions—them, their children, and their wives; and the lions overpowered them, and broke all their bones in pieces before they ever came to the bottom of the den. 25 Then King Darius wrote: To all peoples, nations, and languages that dwell in all the earth: Peace be multiplied to you. 26 I make a decree that in every dominion of my kingdom men musttremble and fear before the God of Daniel. For He is the living God, And steadfast forever; His kingdom is the one which shall not be destroyed, And His dominion shall endure to the end. 27 He delivers and rescues, And He works signs and wonders In heaven and on earth, Who has delivered Daniel from the power of the lions. 28 So this Daniel prospered in the reign of Darius and in the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

Daniel 6:19-27 19 Then, at break of day, the king got up and hurried to the den of lions.20When he came near the den where Daniel was, he cried out anxiously to Daniel, ‘O Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God whom you faithfully serve been able to deliver you from the lions?’21Daniel then said to the king, ‘O king, live for ever!22My God sent his angel and shut the lions’ mouths so that they would not hurt me, because I was found blameless before him; and also before you, O king, I have done no wrong.’23Then the king was exceedingly glad and commanded that Daniel be taken up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no kind of harm was found on him, because he had trusted in his God.24The king gave a command, and those who had accused Daniel were brought and thrown into the den of lions—they, their children, and their wives. Before they reached the bottom of the den the lions overpowered them and broke all their bones in pieces. 25 Then King Darius wrote to all peoples and nations of every language throughout the whole world: ‘May you have abundant prosperity!26I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion people should tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: For he is the living God, enduring for ever. His kingdom shall never be destroyed, and his dominion has no end. 27 He delivers and rescues, he works signs and wonders in heaven and on earth; for he has saved Daniel from the power of the lions.’

In this business tips update, Liza Choa tells us how to thank Your Customers and generate referrals, the strategies and other new techniques INTERVIEW WITH DANIEL AND LYNNE FROM TRIFU DOJO PADDINGTON Liza: Hello this is Liza bringing to you 52 marketing and promotional ideas for your business. Now standing with me I have Daniel and Lynne from Trifu Dojo. They actually have two locations. So before I get into the first one I’m going to get you guys to have a look around, it’s such a stunning place. Check this out. Can you imagine learning martial arts while you are in a surrounding like this? It’s awesome. So Daniel can you tell the audience where we are? Daniel: In Sydney, we are close to the Botanical Gardens here and we have been here for eight years. And we also have another location in Paddington.   Liza: Nice so I know I need to behave myself when I’m next to these two Masters here. So the marketing idea that we want to share today for this episode is combining a thank you strategy with a referral strategy. For business such as this one where you get students coming in. So dojos, fitness classes, dance classes those type of businesses, well any type of business it’s important to say thank you, but especially for this type of business you want your students to keep coming back over and over again. So I know that you guys do a two weeks free trial where people can try it out and see if they like it. So the idea is when you’ve got something like this to incentivise people to check it out you can follow it up with a thank you card, a hand written thank you card, not a thank you email. But then inside the card put two or three friends invitations that they can pass to their friends but you want to make it exclusive right? Just put two or three in there and put the expiry dates because when people do something like this they tend to get more results when they get supported by their friends doing it with their friends is more fun. So when they receive it they say, “Hey what’s this, oh it’s a thank you card, oh that’s sweet and I’ve got two or three passes to pass to my friends. So they might think I might get my partner involved or I can get my brother or sister or cousin or friends involved. So if they’ve got something physical with an expiry date they can hand it out. So have you guys thought of something like this? Daniel: No that’s a great idea, thank you. We will use that tomorrow. Liza: Great let me know how you guys go with it. Lynne: Yes definitely I can’t see it failing. Liza: Awesome so we hope that you gained something from this particular episode of a marketing or promotional idea for your business. So we always wrap up a video with our guest sharing one of their favourite jokes. So what have you got for us? Daniel: I’m going to give you an opportunity to instead of laughing with me you can laugh at me. Liza: Oh what have you got for us? Daniel: I’ll just do a few moves and see if it’s funny. Liza: Okay well show us what you’ve got. (Daniel performs some martial arts moves). Liza: Wow, awesome. Thank you so much Daniel, thank you so much Lynne for joining us. And yeah that was very different and sensational. That was a smile at the end of it. Thank you so much. So stay tuned for the next episode to get more ideas for your business. Bye bye! Here's a detailed information about Thank Your Customers and Generate Referrals; http://smallbusinessmarketingmastery.com.au/thank-your-customers-and-generate-referrals/ We would like to thank Daniel and Lynne of Trifu Dojo Paddington for participating in this episode.  To find out more about Trifu Dojo Paddington, please visit: http://trifudojo.com.au/